Thread title: work trains (756823)
Started on Fri Aug 1 21:44:28 1997, by Zack
- Subject: work trains
- Message Number: 756823
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Fri Aug 1 21:44:28 1997
What do all thoes ex subway trains converted into work trains do???
- Subject: Re: work trains
- Message Number: 756824
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Fri Aug 1 23:33:06 1997
In Reply to: [6]work trains posted by Zack on August 01, 1997 at
21:44:28:
Some become rider cars on work trains.
Some become special cars like the revenue
collection cars or things like pump cars or tunnel
wash cars. Some even become props in movies.
- Subject: Re: work trains
- Message Number: 757169
- Posted by: Bill
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:09 1997
In Reply to: [5]work trains posted by Zack on August 01, 1997 at
21:44:28:
Some cars were converted to carry CWR (Continuous Welded Rail).
Ten 39ft. lengths of running rail all welded together to make one big
piece of rail. It takes ten converted subway cars to carry a peice or
peices of CWR. One CWR train can carry 6 pieces of CWR.
- Subject: Re: work trains
- Message Number: 757170
- Posted by: Bill
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:10 1997
In Reply to: [5]work trains posted by Zack on August 01, 1997 at
21:44:28:
Some cars were converted to carry CWR (Continuous Welded Rail).
Ten 39ft. lengths of running rail all welded together to make one big
piece of rail. It takes ten converted subway cars to carry a piece or
pieces of CWR. One CWR train can carry 6 pieces of CWR.
- Subject: Re: work trains
- Message Number: 757196
- Posted by: Todd Minsk
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:30 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: work trains posted by Steve on August 01, 1997 at
23:33:06:
Does anyone have a complete roster of subway work equipment, both the
conversions from the passenger fleet and apparatus built for the
purpose, and how can we enthusiasts see it?
Thanks!
- Subject: Re: work trains
- Message Number: 757203
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: work trains posted by Todd Minsk on August 05,
1997 at 14:58:33:
The TA has at 130 Livingston Plaza, a copy of a book called
"Revenue & Non-Revenue Car Drawings". I believe they permit viewing
their.
Thread title: New Stuff (756505)
Started on Fri Aug 8 11:47:59 1997, by David Pirmann - Web Site Host
- Subject: New Stuff
- Message Number: 756505
- Posted by: David Pirmann - Web Site Host
- Date: Fri Aug 8 11:47:59 1997
Greetings,
Just wanted to let you all know of new stuff on the site.
The [6]Historical Perspectives section
has been redone with lots of new pictures added. The page on
the [7]Culver Shuttle has been
moved to the "Lines" section with some new pictures added.
Lots of pictures are being rearranged, rescanned, removed (if
they are of poorer quality). If you find broken links please
let me know.
- Subject: Re: New Stuff
- Message Number: 756512
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Thu Jul 10 08:02:27 1997
In Reply to: [5]New Stuff posted by David Pirmann - Web Site Host on
July 09, 1997 at 23:35:39:
Great idea, Dave. However, I thought I was watching "Groundhog Day" as
each of the IND sections I pulled up all had First Generation Cars.
- Subject: Re: New Stuff
- Message Number: 756514
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Thu Jul 10 08:08:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New Stuff posted by Charles Fiori on July 10, 1997
at 08:02:27:
oops, it seems I was less than diligent updating the index-- i just
fixed it. Reload it and be on your merry way. (The picture links
worked but the text links were broken)
- Subject: Re: New Stuff
- Message Number: 756547
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Jul 11 12:52:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]New Stuff posted by David Pirmann - Web Site Host on
July 09, 1997 at 23:35:39:
Not to nit-pick, but to help out (you did put a ? after 1964). On the
likely date of the Sands St. photo in "Abandoned Elevateds", the deck
@ Sands St. came down in 1944. Your photo also shows the trolley wire
structure, which MAY have come down earlier; I am checking my sources.
A beautiful picture in any event. I will try to boost it's contrast
with some software I can access at my office on monday.
- Subject: Re: New Stuff
- Message Number: 756559
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Fri Jul 11 15:29:06 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New Stuff posted by Gary Jacobi on July 11, 1997
at 12:52:44:
Thanks.. I had meant to look into that. As I was writing the captions
I was just going by the dates stamped or written on the slides.
Thread title: Re: Call-on lights/grade-time control (756826)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:32 1997, by Brian W (formerly known as just Brian)
- Subject: Re: Call-on lights/grade-time control
- Message Number: 756826
- Posted by: Brian W (formerly known as just Brian)
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:32 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: What are interlocking signals? posted by M.J.S. on
June 04, 1997 at 23:00:18:
On the TTC (as well as other transit systems I'm sure), a call-on
light indicates to the operator to perform a manual key-by, which
means to stop the train and pull a switch on the outside of the train,
which will de-activate the trip arm, allowing the train to pass.
Grade-timed zones make sure a train stays at its proper speed by
tripping the train's brakes if it is going too fast. In Toronto, the
basic combinations of aspects on a grade-timed signal are the
following:
RED or RED OVER RED: Stop, the next block is occupied.
RED OVER WHITE or RED OVER RED OVER WHITE: Obey the speed limit, this
signal will clear only if the speed limit is obeyed.
YELLOW or YELLOW OVER GREEN: Proceed carefully, the next block after
this one is occupied.
YELLOW OVER WHITE or YELLOW OVER GREEN OVER WHITE: Obey the speed
limit, next signal is red and will only clear to a proceed aspect if
the speed limit is obeyed.
As you can see, this "lunar white" light changes the meaning of each
light combination, which can be very confusing. In fact, it was one of
the factors leading up to the fatal subway accident in 1995 (Toronto's
first ever). Let me know if you want details of the accident!
- Subject: Re: Call-on lights/grade-time control
- Message Number: 756827
- Posted by: David M. Razler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:33 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Call-on lights/grade-time control posted by Brian
W (formerly known as just Brian) on June 06, 1997 at 18:15:39:
I thought the white lights were eliminated years ago - in fact the use
of red=stop, white=go made one of James Burke's early Connections TV
shows, JB telling how all over the world red lenses shattered as
things were kicked up by trains, etc, and all over the world, trains
crashed as operators saw white lights and figured all was clear.
Thread title: Re: "Sick in the Head", (calling Dave) (756840)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:44 1997, by Keranu
- Subject: Re: "Sick in the Head", (calling Dave)
- Message Number: 756840
- Posted by: Keranu
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:44 1997
I just found the archives, thanks for help. Also saw your reply to my
memorising the subway thing. I HAVE drawn the subway map without
looking (OK I had to cheat a bit to remember some of the stations on
the Culver and Brighton lines cos I couldn't remember what the letters
of the avenues were!). I have done the same numerous times with the
London Underground which is far simpler to draw. I never used the map
once to get around the subway during my fabulous week in NYC though I
got lost on the surface trying to find a station at the Bklyn end of
the Bklyn Bridge.
Thread title: Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway (756841)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:44 1997, by Keranu
- Subject: Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway
- Message Number: 756841
- Posted by: Keranu
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:44 1997
Wouldn't it be cool if Beavis & Butthead voices made announcements on
the subway rather than monotonous voices mumbling information. "This
train will skip 23rd Street, I am the Great Cornholio, I need t.p. for
my bunghole!"
- Subject: Re: Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway
- Message Number: 756843
- Posted by: John M.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:46 1997
In Reply to: [5]Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway posted by
Keranu on July 17, 1997 at 10:12:50:
Actually, I always thought that it would be funny if instead of the
round blue sign for the "A" train, they put a picture of Henry
Winkler's face as the Fonz. Or, if they taped a Fonzie poster to the
front of "A" train with a caption leading to the blue sign. You know,
the "AAAAyyyyyy" train.
- Subject: Re: Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway
- Message Number: 756846
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:48 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Beavis & Butthead announcements on subway posted
by John M. on July 17, 1997 at 12:24:39:
I was on the E train one night when some kids apparently got into a
cab and proceeded to abuse the PA system with their B&B impression...
"heh heh heh this train has no breaks. hahhehmhahhem" :)
Thread title: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS (756844)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:47 1997, by Brian From Chicago
- Subject: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756844
- Posted by: Brian From Chicago
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:47 1997
For all of you subway and transit buffs who ride the CTA as much as
you can when you come to Chicago, there is a new cool thing. For only
5 dollars you can buy an all day ridding pass good on all CTA elevated
and subway trains and all CTA Busses.
For more information on it go to HTTP://www.transitchicago.com and
vist the news section.
You don't have to stay in the system all day anymore, you can exit for
lunch and out of station photage!
- Subject: Re: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756847
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:49 1997
In Reply to: [5]NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 17, 1997 at 12:30:16:
That sounds pretty good. Next time I'm in Chicago, maybe I'll give it
a try.
- Subject: Re: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756852
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:53 1997
In Reply to: [5]NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 17, 1997 at 12:30:16:
Toronto has the exact same thing except it costs $6.50 CDN (It used to
be five bucks!) On holidays and weekends, you can bring along your
spouse and kids free, if you have either/or. The only problem with it
is it doesn't work with the Metropass slide-thru express turnstile.
BTW, has the new building for McCormick place been constructed yet? It
has a connection with METRA, doesn't it?
- Subject: Re: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756918
- Posted by: Bryan LLLLLLLLayne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:47 1997
In Reply to: [5]NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 17, 1997 at 12:30:16:
Ya I saw that at MSI,thats cool,now its like you dont have to put a
bunch of money on the transit card...you can just use this and your
set.
Thread title: tunnels (756850)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:51 1997, by D.J.
- Subject: tunnels
- Message Number: 756850
- Posted by: D.J.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:51 1997
Can anybody advise if the is a tunnel that connects Lower Manhattan to
Staten Island out of the Bowling Green Station? I do not have a E-
Mail address please post on board as info about the tunnel. thanks
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 756851
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:52 1997
In Reply to: [5]tunnels posted by D.J. on July 17, 1997 at 16:49:45:
No tunnels, but a great ferry ride is right down the street!
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 756862
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:01 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: tunnels posted by Gary Jacobi on July 17, 1997 at
18:46:11:
Speaking of the Ferry, you ever been on the large passenger boat? Not
the small one, or the vehicle boats, but the huge passenger ones? I
rode on the large one for the first time last week. Hard to beleive,
but of the hundreds of times I took the Staten Island Ferry, I have
never been on that one before. It's pretty cool, the side windows are
huge and they fold all the way down to convert it into a sort of open
deck. The seating arrangement is different than on the other kinds
(instead of straight accross, it's kind of "curved", and they have
colorful seats (green/blue/yellow), rather than the wooden seats on
the vehicle boat. It also has a snack bar with eating stands.
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 756866
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:04 1997
In Reply to: [6]tunnels posted by D.J. on July 17, 1997 at 16:49:45:
No, the tunnel you see leading out of the Bowling Green station
connects
to the loop at South Ferry on the 1/9 lines. There used to be a
shuttle
that plied that route, but it was eliminated in the 70s. #5 trains
that
terminate at Bowling Green use this tunnel to loop South Ferry and
return
to Bronx.
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 757074
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: tunnels posted by John on July 17, 1997 at
23:53:24:
Does anyone have a site for the Ferry?
I think I can answer your question about the boats. They are the
newest boats in the SI Ferry fleet- the Austen Class. They have 4 V-12
engines and usually run at top speed of 24-26 knots. They are
nicknamed floating buses because of the bus like seats.
The ferry people are also trying to decide what to do with their
Kennedy class boats (their car boats such as the Kennedy, American
Legion, etc.) since they are nearing the end of their lifespan-
overhaul or replace.
SOURCE: 1996 trip with Transit musuem to Ferry.
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 757086
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:03 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: tunnels posted by subway-buff on July 26, 1997 at
20:42:21:
How old is the Kennedy Class?
- Subject: Re: tunnels
- Message Number: 757095
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:10 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: tunnels posted by John on July 27, 1997 at
16:43:52:
I think they date back to 1964.
One correction- the class of boats you asked about are the Berretti
Class and not the Austen Class- I am sorry B-)
Thread title: Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents (756853)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:54 1997, by Ashley
- Subject: Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents
- Message Number: 756853
- Posted by: Ashley
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:54 1997
I recently visited New York City and we frequently travelled on the
Subway.
I am not sure if this has to do with the Subways but there was white
steam oozing out of Subway and Sewer vents on the surface of the
street. I also saw smokestacks in the middle of the road with steam
pouring out the top of them. I urge you to E-mail you answer in
telling me what this stuff is!
- Subject: Re: Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents
- Message Number: 756857
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:57 1997
In Reply to: [5]Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents posted by Ashley
on July 17, 1997 at 19:39:49:
The E-Mail link you posted is incorrect so here is your answer.
Con Edison, our local electric company produces steam in huge amounts
as a byproduct of the production of electricity. They sell this steam
to many buildings in NYC which are heated by steam. the steam is
delivered via underground pipes. The steam you see is the result of
leaks in those pipes or becaise of pressure relief valves.
- Subject: Re: Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents
- Message Number: 756871
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Steam out of Subway and Sewer Vents posted by
Steve on July 17, 1997 at 22:14:28:
All in all that was a very good question that many people ask but few
know the real answer to! Boston Edison also sells steam up here, but
instead of using byproduct from electricty generation, they actually
have two boiler plants dedicated to domestic steam! One visible from
the Expressway near South Station, the other near North Station (may
not still be operating).
Gerry
Thread title: What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS (756855)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:55 1997, by Brian from Chicago
- Subject: What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756855
- Posted by: Brian from Chicago
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Bingo on
July 17, 1997 at 19:27:45:
What is the Metro-pass slide through express turnstile? I thought that
metro pass was in New york City, not Toronto. Was it first started
there?
The new McCormick place South has been constructed and I don't think
that it connects with the Mera Electric Lines. Metra electric has
always been right next to McCormick Place and a short walk accross the
street.
All Metra Electric trains use those tracks, including the NICTD (
Northern Indiana Transportation Distric) trains to South bend Indiana.
They split farther south of there. To University park, Blue Island,
91st in Chicago and South Bend.
That station is the 23rd street station. The one next to McCormick
Place. The new building is the South Building. To find out more info
go to the metra rail site at http://www.metrarail.com
- Subject: Re: What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756863
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:02 1997
In Reply to: [5]What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL
DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Brian from Chicago on July 17, 1997 at
20:19:04:
New York has the MetroCard, not MetroPass.
- Subject: Re: What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL DAY RIDDING PASS
- Message Number: 756965
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:24 1997
In Reply to: [5]What is Metro pass/ McCormick Place WAS: NEW CTA ALL
DAY RIDDING PASS posted by Brian from Chicago on July 17, 1997 at
20:19:04:
Metropass is a monthly pass that you buy for a months worth of
unlimited rides. It is NOT a debit-type card like in New York, but
uses the same type of slide-thru turnstile that they use there. The
"Express Lane" is simply one of these turnstiles modified for the
cards. (Yes, we still use old fashioned manned booths for tickets and
as such) The Metropass is made of credit-card plastic, and you need to
show this photo-I.D portion along with the card on buses and
streetcars.
Has the autoshow now been moved to the new building, or is it still
being held in the older black building?
Thread title: Sanitation on the subways (756858)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:58 1997, by Eric
- Subject: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756858
- Posted by: Eric
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:58 1997
1. What are the major sanitation problems in the NYC subway system??
2. Are there enough garbage cans in the subway stations?
3. How many people actually use the garbage cans?? Do You use the
garbage cans?
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756895
- Posted by: AILIN
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:27 1997
In Reply to: [6]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
What sanitation? The subways are gross. Everyday on my commute I have
to see rats the size of cats roamin down on the tracks. YUCK! Enough
said.
- Subject: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756897
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:29 1997
In Reply to: [5]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
The major problem with sanitation on the subways is people. People
treat most public facilities like huge garbage recepticals. There is
no way that mentallity can be combatted except through re-education.
There are an adequate number of garbage cans in place but judging by
the litter that I see every morning, people would rather use the train
floor.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756919
- Posted by: Kevin Keith
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:47 1997
In Reply to: [6]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
I take the NYC subway everyday (N & R trains). I have to admit the
trains have become much cleaner. We CAN do better. One way is by
confronting people who litter (tactfully!). People need to learn to be
socially responsible and think of others before dropping their candy
wrappers and coke bottles.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756920
- Posted by: james
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:48 1997
In Reply to: [5]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
Are you on LSD to ask this question? Do you work for the TA?
Multi-drug resistant tuberculosis. That is the sanitation problem.
Cannot be cured. Spread by dust. Will remain dangerous for several
years. Every employee in the LA Medical Examiners Office tested
positive and the whole building is contaminated. The fact this disease
is common in the HIV infected makes it a political red herring and the
NYC Dept of Health, staffed by politically correct morons, will not
advertise the danger. Go and do a search on MEDLINE. This is a
nightmare on Elm street and it's here. It causes many severe problems
besides difficulty in breathing.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756923
- Posted by: David L.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:50 1997
In Reply to: [5]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
Why doesn't the TA put a waste basket in each car?
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756971
- Posted by: susan RN
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:29 1997
In Reply to: [5]Sanitation on the subways posted by Eric on July 17,
1997 at 22:48:59:
I work with the homeless and can verify there are numerous multi-drug
resistant tb patients living on the subway. The air must be
decontaminated and this can be done by ultraviolet light. A nobel
prize was won in 1904 for the discovery ultraviolet light kills
tuberculosis germs. All new subway wars should have ultraviolet light
in the air conditioning units, but the transit authority seems to be
run by the retarded. Tuberculosis killed George Orwell and Nixon's
brother. It was a scourge for 200 years and it's back and people will
die while the transit authority idiots worry aboiut the color of the
seats on the new cars.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756974
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:31 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by David L. on
July 21, 1997 at 17:00:13:
That was tried on the JFK express in the early 80s. But what do you do
when the morons try to see what happens when newspaper burns on a
crowded rush hour train?
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 756975
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:32 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by susan RN on
July 22, 1997 at 18:22:37:
I believe that UV light was tried by the NYCT in 1949 in a device
called a percipitron which was installed on the R-11 subway cars for
are handling. Yours is an interesting idea but the air would have to
be circulated through closed chambers containing the UV light source.
There are too many people who are UV light sensative.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757003
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:56 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by Steve on July
22, 1997 at 19:56:13:
Yeah, but look on the positive side - you won't have to take the LIRR
all the way out to the Hamptons to get a tan - just stay on the subway
and don't get off at Penn Station!!
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757004
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:56 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by Steve on July
22, 1997 at 19:56:13:
Yeah, but look on the positive side - you won't have to take the LIRR
all the way out to the Hamptons to get a tan - just stay on the subway
and don't get off at Penn Station!!
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757007
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:59 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by susan RN on
July 22, 1997 at 18:22:37:
The R-11 * did* have UV lights. they were removed after the TA found
out that the lights not only sterlized germs but also sterilized *
people *
SOURCE: NYC Subway Cars and Tour in Transit Museum.
Can you imagine the lawsuit today if the TA did put in UV lights and
someone claimed they were sterilized as a result!! Godd bye
subways!(Remember that the BRT was forced into bankruptcy due to
Malbone Street.)
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757013
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by subway-buff on
July 23, 1997 at 17:38:40:
Thanks for the confirmation. I was sure that I read that the
Percipitrons had ultraviolet lights but couldn't find the source.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757020
- Posted by: Memyselfandi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:09 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by susan RN on
July 22, 1997 at 18:22:37:
I hope that one day I get Sickle-cell Anemia so I wont be able to get
Malaria or Yellow Fever. If we use UV light in subway cars to
eliminate TB well how will we cure Skin Cancer (Melanoma) from riders?
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757022
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:11 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by subway-buff on
July 23, 1997 at 17:38:40:
Was anybody known to have been sterilized? Is that why the R-11s were
hardly ever used? What about the R-11 unit in the Transit Museum? Does
that still have the UV lights?
If (while the R-11s were still in service) a couple were planning on
having kids, it would've been in their best interest to pass up a
train of R-11s, huh?
Hmmm . . . maybe some of the cases of those couples that complained
that the wife couldn't get pregnant could've been traced to recent
rides in an R-11.
Yes? No? Maybe?
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757024
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:12 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by Memyselfandi
on July 23, 1997 at 22:44:32:
Your comparrison is weak. I do not advocate the use of UV light but it
could be feasible if the air were circulated through chambers where it
would be subject to UV light while customers are not. (You are not
subject to fluoridation but your drinking water is) The big question
is whether the purpose of the subway system is to provide efficient
and cost-effective mass transit or to solve all of the ills of
society.
Mandatory UV light would make more sense in hospitals, restaurants or
maybe even the DMV.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757026
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by John on July
23, 1997 at 22:52:55:
The percipitrons were mounted under the car and no one was subected to
UV light as a consequence of these devices.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757165
- Posted by: susan r.n.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:05 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by Memyselfandi
on July 23, 1997 at 22:44:32:
Obviously an IQ test isn't required for males to post. In reference to
the comment that ultraviolet radiation causes skin cancer. Ultraviolet
light killes multidrug resistant tuberculosis. The light does not
induce skin cancers because it is entirely enclosed within a duct
through which air in slowly moved with a fan. This was discovered in
1910. Death rides the subways because this is not being done and
idiotic comments by morons do not help the situation. Malaria is not a
significant health hazard. Multi-drug resistant tuberculosis is.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757166
- Posted by: ronald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:06 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by subway-buff on
July 23, 1997 at 17:38:40:
Ultraviolet light enclosed in tubes through which air is circulated
does not sterilize humans. A comment to this effect is so absurd as to
warrent no coment. There is much discussion of multi-drug resistant
tuberculos, which is by far the one single most important issue facing
the New York subway system. Not the color of the signs. There are no
contraindications (disadvantages) to use of ultraviooet light in germ
killing wavelengths in closed ducts through which air is passed. If a
transit engineer in the planning department believes differently he is
lacking in intelligence. Cheers to Susan R.N.
- Subject: Re: Sanitation on the subways
- Message Number: 757168
- Posted by: tom
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:07 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Sanitation on the subways posted by Memyselfandi
on July 23, 1997 at 22:44:32:
The issue of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis is a new one, as
tubercolusis has been virtually eliminated since 1945 and people have
forgotten how devestating it can be. It is a bacteria borne by dust.
The New York Fire Department has taken over the paramedics and has
demonstrated incompetence by changing uniform shirts from white to
blue. The shirts were white because bleach easily and inexpensively
destroys tuberculosis. Blue shirts cannot be decontaminated. Guliani
demonstrated total incompetence in facilitating this ill-advised
merger. There are many strategies to deal with the issue of mulit-drug
resistant tb, including eliminating the subways as a place where
homeless live by using metrocard to limit time in the subway to three
hours, checkable by the police with a card scanner.
Thread title: Problems with the CTA (756860)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:53:59 1997, by Brian from Chicago
- Subject: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756860
- Posted by: Brian from Chicago
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:53:59 1997
I would like to know any problems with the CTA Train system that you
experienced.
I'm going to write them a letter telling them I took a survery over
the internet. They usually respond with a good answer!
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756865
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Problems with the CTA posted by Brian from Chicago on
July 17, 1997 at 23:09:31:
I posted a problem I had with the new fare card about one week ago. If
you don't see it, I will relate it again.
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756902
- Posted by: Bryan From Peoria
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:33 1997
In Reply to: [6]Problems with the CTA posted by Brian from Chicago on
July 17, 1997 at 23:09:31:
Sorry I would have ansered this a long time ago but I just got back
from my family vacation(which was awsome..rode PATH,NY subway,Boston T
subway,NJ transit buses..the whole sha-bang).....
Anyway...
1)Rude,Unprofesional,and Impatient CTA personel and employees(the
system would be much more attractive if the ticket agents,station
attendees didnt act so mean all the time and could wear a smile on
there face once and a while...but i do admit...conducters are usually
very nice and helpfull.
2)unatractive stations...The CTA should be stronger on there
anti-graffiti programs and clean ups...and old run down stations
should be spruced up extensivly..or replaced(with a beuatiful,classic
architecture station..great example:the new station at State/Van Buran
in the loop.
3)This may sound weird,but the CTA's newer paint sheme(adopted I
believe in '91?)is ugly..and I cared much for the old creme,lime,and
green livery before it(personal opinion,but I very much doubt the CTA
has the money to do that at this time)
4)User unfriendly(i think you can figure that out on your own)
5)Here's a nother wierd one...what ever happened to CTA's neat little
"15 minutes to Loop" signs...maybe something better and more
attractive(the Spike Lee movie:"Malcom X"..the signs(neon) on the el
structure(M line in NYC)...those!That would add flavor its just
cool.It could say something like "Ride CTA Rapid Transit...Ravenswood
Brown Line,just 15 minutes to Loop"..in slanty letters in neon on the
el structure(cany you just see it)...The Cta is a hard,bare bones
system and needs things like nicer,clener attractive ,safe feeling
stations and extra things to win back riders.
OH ya...avoid Michigan Avenue bridge(construction on viaduct) I was
there for about 20 minutes!
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756905
- Posted by: Brian ( Originally posted posted shabang
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Problems with the CTA posted by Bryan From Peoria
on July 20, 1997 at 18:24:59:
Bryan,
First of all you have to realize that the CTA is in a financial
crisiss. They just had to cut out about 5 bus routes and are thinking
of cancelling overnight rail service,
except BLue Line Forest Park to Ohare and Red Line.
they just renovated the whole green line and are still working on the
Lake street stations to make
them handicapped accessible and finish them.
They can't advertise 15 minutes to loop becasue someone would take it
literally and sue them for false advertising.
They have been powerwashing the subways and have a program to catch
graffitti artisits.
They also just are getting rid of conductors on all of the trains
lines which will save them over 13 million dollars a year.
They have done alot in financial crisis and will do alot more when
they get back to zero or acually make some money.
They problem was their old president, David Mosena acually cares and
is doing stuuf.
The other guy got fired for illegally using funds.
They have been advertising the fare card alot here in Chicago.
In the future they do need to renovate the Douglas branch of the Blue
Line and the stations on the Forest Park bracnh
to make them accessible.
They also have a number for complaints and they seem to listen
1-888-Your-CTA
They caught station agents stealling.
Please respond to see if you agree with this and tell me if you think
any other parts of the system need repair.
And specify what you would like in the letter
Thanks
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756916
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:45 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Problems with the CTA posted by Brian ( Originally
posted posted shabang on July 20, 1997 at 20:58:14:
Everything you said ,I already know...what I posted was my
opinion,thats what you asked for and I'm not changing it..The CTA is
in serious financial crapp(last I heard some 60million in the
red).But,That still does not excuse the CTA's day to day operations,if
they would improve there image,they would win back riders or gain
riders who would have normally driven.(and im not talking about the
Green line renovation,thats fine and dandy,but there have not been
that great of ridership jumps on that line since it reopened...you
have to relize that the some of the neighborhoods the trains and buses
run through are not in the best condition,and many are unemployed(i
applaid Daley's Bronzeville "take-it back" renovation projects)and
simply dont ride public transportation because they dont go
anywhere,many just sit around and drink 40's all day long.Anyway,these
are my opinions and I believe the CTA needs to take action and run it
like a first class transit system not anything less.
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 756967
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Problems with the CTA posted by Brian ( Originally
posted posted shabang on July 20, 1997 at 20:58:14:
They could make the station collectors a little more friendly. I
encountered this complete a-hole in a glass box while in Chicago. All
I wanted was a friggin' map of the system.
- Subject: Re: Problems with the CTA
- Message Number: 757031
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:18 1997
In Reply to: [5]Problems with the CTA posted by Brian from Chicago on
July 17, 1997 at 23:09:31:
Not with the trains, but... I was standing outside Lincoln park Zoo on
Saturday afternoon at around 4pm, when three(!) #151s pulled up in a
row, going southbound. The run #'s were not consecutive (something
like 928, 930, 929). I remember in New York years ago when there was a
lot of complaining about 'bus bunching' especially on 2d Ave, the
response was that headways are small enough and loading and traffic
patterns would create the situation, yada-yada-yada. What might the
excuse be for a Saturday afternoon? Admittedly, the #151 is a very
long route, but seeing three less-than-full buses doesn't speak well
to the CTAs choices of areas to cut costs.
Thread title: EMAIL FOR DJ (756867)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:05 1997, by Joe Camel
- Subject: EMAIL FOR DJ
- Message Number: 756867
- Posted by: Joe Camel
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:05 1997
In Reply to: [6]tunnels posted by D.J. on July 17, 1997 at 16:49:45:
Sign up at [7]http://www.hotmail.com for FREE web-browser email.
Thread title: What Would You Save? (756870)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:07 1997, by Lou
- Subject: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756870
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:07 1997
The year: 2025 The place: The new New York Transit exhibit at the old
Grand Central Terminal. What current subway equipment to you want to
be able to see there??Lets hear some suggestions out there!!!! (By the
way, just putting it at Grand Central to wake you up!)
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756872
- Posted by: William A. Padron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:09 1997
In Reply to: [6]What Would You Save? posted by Lou on July 18, 1997 at
13:27:28:
Well, first of all, I would personally love to see the "museum" R-10
car #3184 have a spot in the *current* Transit Museum in Brooklyn.
Right now,
that unit is sitting outside in storage doing absolutely nothing,
where it is exposed constantly to all the elements (i.e. rain, snow,
sun, and other weather-related items). It might be wishful thinking on
my own part to see also the other R-10 car #3189 restored back to its
former glory. Upon my last visit to Pitkin Yard, that unit was still
sitting on the south end stub of Track 8, along side with the only
R-27 car [#8145] still in existance on adjoining Track 9. However,
R-16 car #6387 is now at the Transit Museum coupled between R-11 car
#8013 and R-30 car #8506. For all the Lo-V fans (and there are many),
cars #5443 and #5483 is residing there too as well. By the way...where
did that model scale R-10 car that was on display at the Museum's
train platform level went??? The large model was repainted in the
vintage-1965 aqua blue/white with stripe scheme, but I do not have a
clue as to where it disappeared to.
Sincerely,
William A. Padron
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756873
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:10 1997
In Reply to: [6]What Would You Save? posted by Lou on July 18, 1997 at
13:27:28:
Two of everything!
It's too bad they didn't do that up to now. E.g. two R-11's. It would
have been nice to have two car sets of all the types, fully
functional.
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756874
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:11 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by William A. Padron
on July 18, 1997 at 14:26:32:
A World's Fair R-33 or R-36 pair.
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756877
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:13 1997
In Reply to: [6]What Would You Save? posted by Lou on July 18, 1997 at
13:27:28:
-- A 10 car train of redbirds, 2 of each type.
-- The R-1/9s in the museum fleet sitting in Coney Island
-- The current 4 restored Lo-Vs and trailer 4902
-- A pair of Budd R-32s, in my opinion the best equipment the TA ever
had.
-- A loop track where these things can RUN
-- Old station signs from various places.
-- An LIRR M-1 married pair (some have already been scrapped!)
-- R42s 4764 and 4765, the married pair that took a trip to DOT's test
site in Pueblo, CO
-- Any wrecked R-type from accidents that occurred from 1990 on with a
description of the accident, and what was learned from it so it
doesn't
happen again.
-- Train operator cab simulator with various lines to operate on.
-- A train of 2 cars where you could operate the doors and announce
stations.
-- An exhibit on the evolution of track rabbits (Ok - maybe this is
getting a bit off track ....)
--Mark
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756882
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:17 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by David Pirmann on
July 18, 1997 at 14:32:33:
Rather that cursing the darkness, why not try to light a candle; start
a movement to store two of each, or whatever you can get, inside an
unused tunnel like some in the Chrystie St complex.
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756925
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:52 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Gary Jacobi on July
18, 1997 at 23:11:35:
I remember reading a story somewhere that someone, it might have been
Don Harold, had a heck of a time trying to save a specific set of cars
from the scrapper's torch. He was able to stay one step ahead of his
nemesis until building some support and then revealing his chicanery.
Anyone out there able to fill in some blanks on this one???
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756927
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:54 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Charles Fiori on
July 21, 1997 at 17:39:11:
According to the Book, Uptown,Downtown he had a passion for the Lo-V
trains. The book says he moved them from the brass and when a work car
was needed a Lo-V would show up!
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756946
- Posted by: Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:09 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Charles Fiori on
July 21, 1997 at 17:39:11:
Ah yes...
I don't know if it is connected -- but there was some rumor about some
museum car deals involving Hugh Dunne an ex-president of the ERA.
I don't know details and therefore do not wish to imply any wrongdoing
-
does anyone know anything about this issue?
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756950
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:12 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Ben-Zion Y.
Cassouto on July 22, 1997 at 03:23:59:
Hugh Dunne!!! Now there's a name from the past. I remember when he
worked directly for the late John Simpson who ran the TA in the early
'80's. No matter what time fo the day or night, if there was a major
service disruption, he would show up out of nowhere!!!
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756957
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:18 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by subway-buff on July
21, 1997 at 17:43:58:
It also became sort of a problem because the hidden Lo-V cars remained
in the NYCTA's master inventory list. I believe they were hidden on an
unused storage track on the Dyre Ave line. Also there was a person
responsible for tracking down "missing" equipment and it seems that he
searched the entire system except this storage area (which I believe
was in a tunnel) - then one day it dawned on him that he had not
checked this one area. Well out of the office he went, but he made the
mistake of telling another employee who then contacted... Turdik, I
think that was his name. He informed Turdik that he had better move
the Lo-V's because this person was on his way to check out the storage
area. The Lo-V's were temporarily hidden somewhere at the 180th Street
area.
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 756979
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:36 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Wayne Johnson on
July 22, 1997 at 10:43:32:
are the lo V's still around somewhere????
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 757077
- Posted by: Jason R. DeCesare
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]What Would You Save? posted by Lou on July 18, 1997 at
13:27:28:
On the subway side:
All of the current museum fleet, of course.
One full 11 car train of R-33s/R-36s from the Flushing Line, repainted
in Worlds Fair livery.
Two of each of the Redbirds.
Two R-40s, R-40Ms, R-42s, R-44s, R-46s
(I have a feeling that the R-62s and R-68s will still be running in
2025.)
The two new tech trains
On the Metro-North side:
Two FL-9s, a few sets of M-1s and M-3s, and two ACMU-1100s
On the LIRR side:
A few sets of M-1s and M-3s, some of those neat old diesel hauled
coaches
PATH:
The older PA series equipment and some K cars
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save?
- Message Number: 757137
- Posted by: Lou L
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by William A. Padron
on July 18, 1997 at 14:26:32:
2025??
I would save a MetroCard, still think even with 10% off in Jan (buy10
get 11 rides) token will be around >G
Thread title: Subway Refrigerants - From Posting Below (756880)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:15 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Subway Refrigerants - From Posting Below
- Message Number: 756880
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:15 1997
Freon 12 is indeed a refrigerant which is used primarily in autos and
some old appliances. Freon 22 is used in home AC, refrigerators and
NYCT cars.
I have never heard of Freon 11 but there are some other more exotic
refrigerants around, usually from Europe.
While freon 134 may very well be the new standard, it is meeting with
some considerable resistance in NYCT circles for some important
reasons. First, if has a higher boiling point than freon 22 and
therefore needs higher pressures to work. Second, freon 22 will not be
outlawed by the EPA (unlike freon 12) for quite some time. Final
reason is the cost. While Capella oil, (which is mixed with freon 22)
is reletively inexpensive. the oil mixed with freon 134 runs about
$100.00 per gallon. Not very appealing when thousands of gallons of
capella oil are used annually.
Thread title: Messages Posted by Women (756885)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:19 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Messages Posted by Women
- Message Number: 756885
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]How come more chicks don't post messages? posted by
John M. on July 14, 1997 at 16:47:33:
Two corrections to your posting if I may.
First, referreing to females as chicks is in itself sexist. Perhaps
more women would post messages if they did not sense that sub-surface
hostility to them.
Second, The MTA is not conciously sexist and nor is the NYCT. Many
senior managers and analysts are female as are some of the personnel
in operations planning. In operations, there are females in virtually
every operating title with the exception of Road Car Inspector (no
idea why). There are hundreds of females who operate trains each and
every day. I suggest that it is society at large which is sexist for
their attitude which like yours (and I'm not criticizing) views women
in the field and women interested in the industry as somewhat less
femenine.
The real question is why it should matter what the sex is of the
person who is posting a thought or provocative question. Perhaps you
are trying to combine too many of your personal interests in one site.
Thread title: Paris Metro not Airconditioned (756886)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:20 1997, by Brian From Chicago
- Subject: Paris Metro not Airconditioned
- Message Number: 756886
- Posted by: Brian From Chicago
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:20 1997
On a recent trip to Paris France we rode the Metro their subway system
everywhere to get arund
and were surpirsed to find out that there was no Airconditioning.
Otherwise the service was great! During rush hour when just about
every train is crowded wall to wall
and their was a window open, it sucked.
Anyway, my question was, are their any other Rapid Transit/Subway
systems that are not airconditioned?
I know some of the trains here in Chicago aren't, but only a few, not
all of them!!
- Subject: Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned
- Message Number: 756896
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:28 1997
In Reply to: [6]Paris Metro not Airconditioned posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 19, 1997 at 16:10:43:
Friday AM, I rode the 'money train' (not the movie version) uptown,
while the temp. was already a humid 85 degrees. With the fans on high
and the storm door window open, it actually felt better than AC.
However, I also ride the LIRR and they will run passenger trains with
cars having no AC. Without being able to open the windows, it is a
brutal experience. I can not conceive of any major transit property in
either temperate zone, not having AC in their cars. In this day and
age, there is no excuse.
- Subject: Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned
- Message Number: 757072
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:51 1997
In Reply to: [6]Paris Metro not Airconditioned posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 19, 1997 at 16:10:43:
Here's an interesting piece of trivia. NYC still has some un
airconditioned trains on the #7. The lines uses 11 car trains
consisting of 5 "married pairs" and one trailer car. This trailer car
was not rebuilt with ac due to cost. SOURCE: NY SUBWAY CARS.
(When the redbirds finally roll their last *then* all NYCT trains in
revenue service will be air conditioned. (Of course-if it works!)
Thread title: Subway Sabotage? (756887)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:21 1997, by Wesley
- Subject: Subway Sabotage?
- Message Number: 756887
- Posted by: Wesley
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:21 1997
With two very similar incidents coming just two weeks apart, is the TA
exploring the possibility of employee sabotage? What about the
recently ousted and disgruntled 'New Directions' faction of the TWU?
Thread title: In responce to aarons problem ( WAS Re: Problems with the CTA) (756888)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:22 1997, by Brian from Chicago
- Subject: In responce to aarons problem ( WAS Re: Problems with the CTA)
- Message Number: 756888
- Posted by: Brian from Chicago
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:22 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Problems with the CTA posted by aaron on July 18,
1997 at 08:32:43:
Yes Nate, I did see your problem and the fare collection equipment was
right, you were wrong.
I just read in the CTA's web site in the fares section under Transit
Cards the following:
A full fare will be deducted if the same Transit Card is used in the
same Bus fare box,
or at the same rail station during the pass back period! What they are
saying is that two
people can't use the same Transit Card to transfer at the same time.
Two people can use it for the 1.50 fare, ( up to seven people acually)
but their is a waiting period before a transfer or second transfer is
deducted from the card.
It makes sense because The first person used the card to pay their
fare, then the second person would be .30 cents and the third free.
That means that 7 people could use the card and only 3 people would
get charged the full fare 1.50.
Sorry for the delay responding, Please respond if this makes sense or
doesn't and if you get this,
It was posted Saturday July 19, about 10:30 east cost time.
Thread title: City with best mass Transit (756889)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:22 1997, by Brian
- Subject: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756889
- Posted by: Brian
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:22 1997
What is the coolest city in your opion for most and coolest kinds of
Mass Transit?
My favorite is San Francisco California. They have the old fashioned
Subway and street running Street cars. And Street running Cable Cars.
Then they also have BART which is a new Rapid Transit System which has
Subway and elevted portions.
they encourage ridership and Muni Bus and Street Car fare is only 1.00
for adults and .35 cents for kids up to 17.
They are unlike Chicago and NYC, thye try to make you use public
Transit.
I really can't put a bad name on the CTA here in Chicago. They have
been inproving their rail system for the last few years
and have done some great things. Including the new fare Card, washing
out the subways and renovating the 100 year old green line.
Even if you are surrounded by people who look suspisous, crime on the
CTA is very very and goes down every year.
Sf is my favortie Mass transit City, what's yours??
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756890
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:23 1997
In Reply to: [6]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
Just out of curiosity, just how many transit systems have you been on?
I'm just trying to figure out just how qualified you are that you can
make such a judgement call---no offense intended---just wondering what
systems your comparing Chicago or NY to.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756891
- Posted by: Joe-M
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:24 1997
In Reply to: [5]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
Chicago is fun. Nice historic system, Ny the power of the cars is
awsum.
DC is nice a works well but the cars are not as clean inside as some
SF wins for variety but
Boston is the easist to get around on if you can find a surface system
map.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756892
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:25 1997
In Reply to: [6]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
I guess my favorite would be London. I have not bee there is many
years but I found the undergound mezmorizing and the busses charming
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756903
- Posted by: Leroy S.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:34 1997
In Reply to: [6]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
Barcelona has the best mass transit system, hands down.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756904
- Posted by: Brian
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:34 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Mark
Greenwald on July 19, 1997 at 23:45:10:
I have been on Chicago, New york City, Paris France, San Francisco,
Washington DC
Not to many other systems out of the US
SF has so many busses and the fares are so cheap, it is easy to ride
and
there are busses every where. I believe that they have more then
Chicago, but we are
second for rail.
I do believe Chicago would come in Second, because we do have some
brand new Rappid Transit
and commuter train lines.
I just don't think that a whole trip to another country is worht it to
ride
the transit system. It is if theres other stuff to do like paris.
Japan would be cool with the bullet trains,
Question:
Whats the fastest train in the world, is it in France or Japan?
i know France's TGV is the fastest in europe
And is NYC the biggest subway/Rapid Transit System worlwide???
Please respond!
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756907
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:37 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Mark
Greenwald on July 19, 1997 at 23:45:10:
I enjoyed Atlanta's MARTA. While it's very small the trains are very
clean and the free bus/subway transfer is made easier since the bus
platforms are a few steps from the train. I riden systems in Atlanta,
Boston, Washington DC, Philadelphia and of course my native New York.
I do think the the NYCT has come a long way and our bus fleet can
rival any other city's fleet.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756908
- Posted by: John M.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
Amsterdam has a surface trolley system that ran frequently and seemed
to work well on the whole. Also, cars were pretty restricted, and they
had an amazing network of well-designed and integrated bicycle lanes.
Many people there get around on old Schwinns. It was also very easy to
get to Centraal Station by train from the airport--the train stopped
right under the airport, in fact.
In the U.S., my favorite thus far has been Boston.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756928
- Posted by: Brian W
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:54 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on
July 20, 1997 at 20:44:37:
I believe that the fastest train in the world is still the TGV in
France. Japan's "bullet trains" were the fastest in the 50s and 60s
until the TGV arrived sometime in the 70s.
I also believe that recently Japan has introduced new trains. They
still don't beat the speed of the TGV, however.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756943
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:06 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Mark
Greenwald on July 19, 1997 at 23:45:10:
The best transit system on the continent, hands down, is Philadelphia.
I've ridden on Philly, New York, NJT, Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington,
Chicago, Vancouver, and Ottawa. I've observed, but not ridden,
Portland, Seattle, Cleveland, Baltimore, Atlanta, Miami, and Denver.
Philadelphia is the only system in the country where you can go area
wide on a single pass on all components (Commuter, Subway, Trolley,
Bus). The highest pass, Zone 5-6, is $142 per month. Philly also
offers numerous discounts on tokens and passes, which are available in
daily, weekly, and monthly format. While new York can't seem to figure
out how to seel packs of ten tokens at a discount, Philly has been
doing it for years.
The Philadelphia commuter rail system covers the whole area
thoroughly, including frequent Airport service to the different
terminals, and connects conveninetly to Amtrak and Greyhound as well.
The Subways run on the major spine roads and serve as effective feeds
for the vast bus and trolley network, which can take you just about
anywhere you want to go (within a few blocks). The buses also cover
the suburbs pretty effectively. The suburbs have additional rail
service from the true last interurban in the country - the Philadephia
and Western, and from the Media and Sharon Hill trolley lines. The
system, apart from Commuter rail (which has special cost problems),
covers an average of 70% of costs from the farebox - buses actually
cover 80 to 100%.
If I had one complaint about Philly, it is that money problems have
hampered even more effective expansion of the trolley lines, commuter
rail, and bus network. But that may have been partly solved by PA's
finally coming up with a dedicated funding source.
Andy
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756948
- Posted by: Fred Wellman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:10 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Andrew Byler
on July 21, 1997 at 22:44:50:
Living in the SEPTA Service area I have to agree to a point. Some
Suburbs
have very good bus service mine does not. It is not the fact they run
hourly , but the fact the bus route 96 runs from Norristown to Telford
PA. This means little to those not in the area but the major problem
is the route is so long and has such road conngestion it is never on
time!
Also to get to the county seat of Norristown it is 9 miles. With the
fare zones it would cost me $7.50. and take twice as long. I cannot
use
SEPTA to get to work so a pass does me little good. Also SEPTA seems
to be on a quest to get ride of trolley's and Trolley Buses.
We have horrible Air Quality. Last but not least they fired the last
GM
of the system for pure politics. SEPTA is a good system but needs some
route revamping.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756952
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Andrew Byler
on July 21, 1997 at 22:44:50:
Hats off to Philadelphia!!! I like the "pay one fare" and be able to
transfer from different modes----
Washington is looking at updating their system to do the same but it
is still a few years off-----when it does happen it'll be long
overdue.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756959
- Posted by: Todd Glickman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on July
19, 1997 at 22:53:36:
NYC is and will ALWAYS be my favorite.
But for VALUE, Boston has some pretty good deals. I take the commuter
rail into work every day. My pass is $72 per month, for a 25 minute
ride on the commuter rail from "Zone 2." This INCLUDES all of the
subway, bus, and trackless trolley rides I can take. As added
incentives, the pass features:
2 for 1 on all modes on Sunday.
Buy 12 months in advance, pay for 11 and get 1 free
A nice discount off your car insurance.
Sure, I don't get to change at Jamaica, but what do you want for what
nets out to be less than $3 a day for the above if you take advantage
of the discounts! The bad news is that the subway/bus system shuts
down from 1-5am -- night owls beware!
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756966
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:25 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Brian on
July 20, 1997 at 20:44:37:
The TGV is the fastest in the world, which recorded a speed record of
303 mph in 1995 (on the Paris-Rouen run) A version of TGV also runs in
the English-French Chunnel (Eurostar). It reaches speeds of about 200
mph. The best thing about these high-speed trains is that they can
couple with each other while running at cruise speed.
Japan has recently annouced their plan to introduce the new series 400
Shinkansen bullet train. It has a sloped nose front, and will travel
the heavy ridership Osaka-Tokyo line (Grand Trunk). The series 0 was
the fastest train in the world up to the late 60's when TGV was
introduced. In my opinion, they're still the fastest looking trains
around.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 756970
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:28 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Todd
Glickman on July 22, 1997 at 11:28:16:
Yes Todd!
Now, if the MBTA ever got its act together, and untangled some of the
messes it's gotten itself into (Arborway, Washington St. Corridor, 20
minute evening subway headways, even worse on many bus routes ...) it
would truely be a World Class System. And as for the latest Washington
Street Replacement Plan...
Gerry
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 757009
- Posted by: Fred Wellman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:00 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Mark
Greenwald on July 22, 1997 at 10:15:57:
I am not sure what you mean by pay one fare transfer to different
modes.
For a price you can transfer from bues to subway. I know of
no transfers from Regional Rail to any other mode. I will admit I
don't
use the the system very much, then mostly Regional Rail.
- Subject: Re: City with best mass Transit
- Message Number: 757032
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Fred Wellman
on July 23, 1997 at 18:03:22:
In Washington, you CAN transfer from subway to bus w/o paying an extra
fee PROVIDING, you get a transfer slip from the station THAT YOU
BOARDED!!, not the one where you are leaving the system to board the
bus. If you go from bus to subway, however, you must pay two fares,
one for each mode of transportation. What the WMATA is looking into
though is a sort of universal farecard which can be used on both types
of transit and the appropriate fares (if any) will be applied at that
moment. I guess from this you can either prepay your fare (like you
are able to do by buying a higher than the required amount on a subway
farecard) or possibly be billed, maybe once a month, for transit used.
It's possible, maybe a debit card can be created for the systems. The
ideas are endless.
Thread title: Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned as well as the LONDON UNDERGROUND (756894)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:26 1997, by AILIN
- Subject: Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned as well as the LONDON UNDERGROUND
- Message Number: 756894
- Posted by: AILIN
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:26 1997
In Reply to: [6]Paris Metro not Airconditioned posted by Brian From
Chicago on July 19, 1997 at 16:10:43:
Woooo! Boy its hot in the LONDON UNDERGROUND. I dont think Europeans
believe in A/C. They think that if the train moves fast enough and the
windows are open at least some for of stank air will filter thru. Or
mabbie they are just tryin to save some money. Thank GOD fer A/C in on
NYC subways.
- Subject: Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned as well as the LONDON UNDERGROUND
- Message Number: 756969
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:27 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned as well as the
LONDON UNDERGROUND posted by AILIN on July 20, 1997 at 09:19:50:
There's no a/c on any of the Montreal Metro trains either. And since
most of the subway is deep, deep underground (some of it even through
granite) it is like being in a roasting pan during hot summer days.
Toronto H-1 and H-3 trains are also not air conditioned, but they're
on the way out anyway.
Thread title: Brooklyn Trolley maps (756898)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:30 1997, by Ted Nielsen
- Subject: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756898
- Posted by: Ted Nielsen
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:30 1997
I need some maps of the trolley network in Downtown Brooklyn around
the turn of the century. I want to create a Bahn layout based on the
trolley network ( including the Brooklyn Bridge line to Manhattan ). I
would appreciate any information on where I can obtain these maps.
I want to include Brooklyn Heights , Cobble Hills , Williamsburg ,
Greenpoint , Park Slope , Fulton St. / Boro Hall area , City Hall /
Manhattan , Red Hook , etc.
Thanks.
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756900
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:31 1997
In Reply to: [6]Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by Ted Nielsen on July
20, 1997 at 12:53:31:
There's a book "Brooklyn Trolleys" by James Greller that should be
useful. If i remember there's a foldout map at the back but I don't
remember if it was tracks or routes...
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756910
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by Ted Nielsen on July
20, 1997 at 12:53:31:
One other thing, not quite what you were looking for though... Sanford
Gardner sent me a Brooklyn trackless trolley map and some information
circa 1965 which I've put up on the site at
[7]http://www.nycsubway.org/histmaps/trolcoach.html.
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756933
- Posted by: Me, Myself and I
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:58 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by David Pirmann on
July 21, 1997 at 10:23:20:
There's just one problem, you wrote gas busses, shouldn't it be Diesel
busses?
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756934
- Posted by: Me, Myself and I
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:59 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by David Pirmann on
July 21, 1997 at 10:23:20:
There's just one problem, you wrote gas busses, shouldn't it be Diesel
busses?
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756939
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by Me, Myself and I
on July 21, 1997 at 20:21:18:
Yes, I suppose. I inserted that word when I was editing the page to
make it clear that these were no longer electric coaches.
- Subject: Re: Brooklyn Trolley maps
- Message Number: 756961
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:21 1997
In Reply to: [6]Brooklyn Trolley maps posted by Ted Nielsen on July
20, 1997 at 12:53:31:
There is a book titled "Confessions of a Trolley Dodger from Brooklyn"
by Stan Fischler. Although the maps in the book are not original they
are detailed and show exactly what the streets the trolleys ran on.
The book is sold at the NYC Transit museum.
Thread title: Re: NYC Bus Fleets/shrink-wrapped buses (756899)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:30 1997, by Dan Lawrence
- Subject: Re: NYC Bus Fleets/shrink-wrapped buses
- Message Number: 756899
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:30 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: NYC Bus Fleets posted by John on July 17, 1997 at
13:27:24:
Here in Baltimore the local MTA has had quite a few shrink-wrapped
buses running. One was for IKEA, and was quite stunning! It was
strange to see an all-yellow bus with no MTA markings except the fleet
number. Several of the all-over shrink-wraps have NO exterior markings
except one small fleet number over the driver's window. Must be fun
finding the bus in the yard when it's parked in a mass of other buses.
Thread title: Train Derailments- what happened? (756901)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:32 1997, by David L.
- Subject: Train Derailments- what happened?
- Message Number: 756901
- Posted by: David L.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:32 1997
Someone please tell me what happened! I was out of town since July 1
and got back today. Someone please give me the details of the two
train derailments. Thank you :-)
Thread title: Hudson & Manhattan RR Ancestor Information (756906)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:36 1997, by Michael Dingledine
- Subject: Hudson & Manhattan RR Ancestor Information
- Message Number: 756906
- Posted by: Michael Dingledine
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:36 1997
Looking for any information on two family members (my father and
grandfather) who worked for the H&M Railroad many years ago. I've
already written to the Railroad retirement Board but have not heard
from them yet.
Any information would be appreciated.
Name Years of service Position Held
John Dingledine ~1910 -1940 Motorman
Robert Dingledine ~1930's - 1970 Conductor
Thread title: Subway Eateries (756909)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:39 1997, by John M.
- Subject: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756909
- Posted by: John M.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:39 1997
Currently, are there any working eateries in subway stations? I
remember a hamburger stand/lunch counter in the Jay Street/Boro Hall
(A&F lines) as recently as the late 1980's. Where would other eateries
have been in the past? Times Square, other big stations??
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756912
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:42 1997
In Reply to: [5]Subway Eateries posted by John M. on July 21, 1997 at
10:19:42:
I suppose this is other than than the bar at 50th St. on the 1.
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756915
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]Subway Eateries posted by John M. on July 21, 1997 at
10:19:42:
Do you count the bar at the 50th St. station on the 1??
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756924
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:51 1997
In Reply to: [5]Subway Eateries posted by John M. on July 21, 1997 at
10:19:42:
I remember a Nedick's at Main St.-Flushing. I also remember 2 terrific
soft pretzel stands, 1 at the mezzanine while changing from #7 to the
IND at 74th St., and the other at 34-6Av. There was also some kind of
eatery opposite the Times Sq Shuttle station and another just down the
steps from there going towards the BMT, opposite a record shop.
Outside your area of interest, maybe, but I also remember
pillar-mounted gum and cigarette machines on #7 elevated stations,
specifically Willets Pt.-Shea Stadium. Bon Appetit!!!
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756938
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:02 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by Lou on July 21, 1997 at
10:59:37:
There is a Sbarro's at the 34th Street IRT station and also one at the
47-50th Street IND station.
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756940
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:04 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway Eateries posted by John on July 21, 1997 at
20:58:02:
I think the original poster was asking about places you can eat
without leaving the subway fare-paid zone. The Sbarro's at 47-50
doesn't qualify. (There's a ton of places to eat in the Concourse area
there, but nothing within the fare zone.) Does the Sbarro at 34th on
the IRT have a fare-paid area?
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756945
- Posted by: Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway Eateries posted by David Pirmann on July
21, 1997 at 21:14:02:
This thread broght back memories of the MANY gum and candy machines at
all
stations up to about 25 years ago.
Anyone remember these (or am I getting old!?)?
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756947
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:10 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by David Pirmann on July
21, 1997 at 21:14:02:
I'm not sure if the one at 34th is in the fare zone. Even though the
lower level is on the uptown local platform, it might not have an
entrance to the subway.
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756949
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:11 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto on
July 22, 1997 at 03:11:46:
See my message above. Yes I do!!!
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756955
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:16 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by John on July 22, 1997 at
05:08:00:
It's not in the fare paid area.
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756956
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:17 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by Charles Fiori on July
22, 1997 at 07:47:38:
At Union Square, on the mezzanine level near to the south end of the
IRT exington Ave line's platforms was a hot dog vendor who also had
really good soft pretzels.
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756958
- Posted by: Todd Glickman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:18 1997
In Reply to: [6]Subway Eateries posted by John M. on July 21, 1997 at
10:19:42:
It wasn't in the subway. Nor was it in a "fare paid zone." However,
the finest food outlet in the NYC mass transit area I can remember was
the hot dog stand on the mezzanine level of the Jamaica LIRR station
(the one closest to the steps leading down to the main waiting room.)
When I was in junior high school, I would stop there for a hot dog and
knish on my way into the city from LI (riding the MP-54s, of course!).
There was a tall, thin gentleman who wore a red-and-white striped
shirt who served the food. That was in the late 60's! And up until a
few years ago, he WAS STILL THERE, and still in a red-and-white
striped shirt, serving what in my opinion were the best hot dogs and
knishes anywhere. I would make it a point to stop there on my frequent
trips from my now home in Boston to NYC. When the LIRR announced that
due to the renovation of the Jamaica station they would be closing the
snack bar, he told me he had been serving the food there for THIRTY
YEARS! When I walk through the mezzanine today, I wonder where he is
now?
- Subject: Re: Subway Eateries
- Message Number: 756963
- Posted by: John L.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:23 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Eateries posted by Charles Fiori on July
21, 1997 at 17:35:32:
Yes, I remember the two eateries in the Times Sq shuttle area--as well
as the record store! One of the two eateries (I believe it was the one
going toward the BMT) always had prominent displays of dougthnuts
under glass!
Thread title: RERUN ALERT!!!! (756911)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:41 1997, by Lou
- Subject: RERUN ALERT!!!!
- Message Number: 756911
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:41 1997
For all those that don't have it on tape yet (yes, both of you!), Nick
at Nite is re-running "Lucy and the Loving Cup" tonight at 8:30
Eastern time. For those who don't know this is the show where Lucy
gets lost on the Lex Ave line with a loving cup on her head. (don't
ask)
- Subject: Re: RERUN ALERT!!!!
- Message Number: 757030
- Posted by: Andrew Huie
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:17 1997
In Reply to: [6]RERUN ALERT!!!! posted by Lou on July 21, 1997 at
10:57:28:
I haven't seen this episode in many years (too bad I read your message
too late). In the scenes showing Lucy actually in the car, were the
cars Low V's or something else?
- Subject: Re: RERUN ALERT!!!!
- Message Number: 757053
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:36 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: RERUN ALERT!!!! posted by Andrew Huie on July 24,
1997 at 02:52:22:
They used a pretty good mock-up of a Low-V (They shot the show LIVE),
and for the transitional shots they used a lot of footage from that
one Board of Transpotation short from circa 1948-9. Of course half the
shots are of IND R units!! But they did a good job faking the "subway
car pulling into a station.
Thread title: Outdated Signs (756913)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:42 1997, by Lou (again!)
- Subject: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 756913
- Posted by: Lou (again!)
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:42 1997
What is the most outdated sign on the System??? The worst one I know
of is the one at 103 St.-Corona which boasts of the connection to the
Second Ave. El!!! That one has to be at least 60 years old!! This, of
course, if it still exists! I know the Daily News did an article(?)
about a couple of years ago...
- Subject: Re: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 756921
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:49 1997
In Reply to: [6]Outdated Signs posted by Lou (again!) on July 21, 1997
at 11:06:46:
I can recall a sign prohibiting entry on the tracks - I think it's at
Grand Central - that bears the name of the Interboro Rapid Transit Co.
As a corporate entity, the IRT hasn't existed since 1940. Unlike the
one at 103rd, of course, the information on this sign (other than the
entity name) is still accurate.
- Subject: Re: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 756937
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:02 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Outdated Signs posted by Peter Rosa on July 21,
1997 at 15:25:01:
At the World Trade Center, as of a couple years ago, the signs that
directed you to the subway entrances still had the old green 'RR'
sign. An entrance to the Fulton Street station also had the old 'CC'
sign.
- Subject: Re: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 756944
- Posted by: charles
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:07 1997
In Reply to: [5]Outdated Signs posted by Lou (again!) on July 21, 1997
at 11:06:46:
One outdated sign still in existence is on track one of the Stillwell
Avenue Station. It shows connecting lines BDFQ
The other outdated sign I know about is on 14th Street and 8th avenue.
On the Local track the K train is still on the sign
- Subject: Re: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 757018
- Posted by: Memyselfandi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:08 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Outdated Signs posted by John on July 21, 1997 at
20:50:27:
The Signs denoting the entrance to the WTC are completely screwed up,
the y say lines like RR and CC, gone years ago.
- Subject: Re: Outdated Signs
- Message Number: 757099
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Outdated Signs posted by Memyselfandi on July 23,
1997 at 22:08:53:
At the entrance to the 57th St/Ave Americas station on the Southeast
Corner, you can see the signs for the old JFK express covered over.
Thread title: High speed Subways (756917)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:46 1997, by Brian
- Subject: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756917
- Posted by: Brian
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:46 1997
Are there any subway systems that travel above 35 to 40 miles per
hour.
In Paris the express Metro/RER travels in the subway downtown, but
doesn't have many stops.
I know that they are testing a 80 miles per hour Rapid Transit Train
in Some State
out west that has nothing in it.
Are any cities going to get this new technology when it comes out?
I know alot more people who are driving on a expressway that has a
"EL" traveling in the median strip
that passes up the cars sitting in ruhs hour traffic at 80 MPH would
attract alot more ridders to it.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756936
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:01 1997
In Reply to: [5]High speed Subways posted by Brian on July 21, 1997 at
12:29:55:
In New York, some express trains travel pretty fast, but it's not an
"official" high-speed subway. The Long Island Rail Road and
Metro-North, although are not subway lines, do serve a few local areas
and is sometimes used by some people as an alternate to the subway in
Queens, Brooklyn (LIRR) and the Bronx (MNR), and these trains are
faster and more comfortable than the subway, and also more expensive.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756941
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:05 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by John on July 21, 1997
at 20:47:20:
There are plenty of high speed subways around the country.
Newer systems such as Washington and San Francisco have a top speed of
70 mph outside of the tunnels (inside, I think it is 50 or 55 mph).
PATCO in Philadelphia and Jersey is (or was) 75 mph.
Here in Philadelphia, we have a true high speed subway. When the
express tracks of the Broad St. Subway were extended from Erie Ave. to
Olney, the express tracks were improved from Spring Garden St. to Erie
Ave. as well to allow the trains to travel at 70 mph in the subway.
When I was performing braking tests on the subway for SEPTA with LTK
Engineering as an intern engineer, we sped down the express tracks at
65 to 70 mph hour as the signals allowed, which the motormen assured
me was the normal operating speed.
To get to the point of the original writer, there is no reason that
many of the express lines on the New York Subway could not have their
speed limit raised from 50 mph to 70 mph. Outside the tunnels, the
Rockaway extension, the Dyre Ave. extension, and the Brighton line
express tracks could easily be upgraded and sped up. In the tunnel, a
little effort at protecting alignment on the express tracks of the
Park-Lex, 6th, Broadway, 7th, 8th, Queens Blvd., Grand Concourse,
Fulton Ave., and 4th Ave. Brooklyn lines could raise the speeds on
them safely to 70 mph. It is quite possible that raising speeds on few
long express lines such as the A, D, 4, and 5 could reduce the number
of trainsets needed to provide service. A quick simulation and cost
benefit study would confirm or deny this suspiscion that simply
raising speeds could pay for itself, irregardless of high ridership.
Alternatively, savings in trainsets could spill over into more
frequent operations. The more modern subway cars on the B division
(IND/BMT) are geared for a 75 mph top speed, as the 2nd Ave. line and
Queens Superexpress/Atlantic Branch lines were designed for 70 mph
normal operating speeds (they were to be New York's answer to other
modern subway lines, and would have undoubtedly helped to promote the
speeding up of other lines). Something to keep in mind when raising
speeds is that a traction power operating simulation must be performed
to confirm that the exitsing substations are able to provide adequate
operating power for the faster trains.
You are quite right that high speed atracts riders. Anyone who has
ever driven I-66 in Washington can attest to the Orange line trains
whizzing by the jammed traffic knows this effect. After all, would you
rather travel in comfort at 70 mph, or sit in traffic at 30 mph?
Andy Byler
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756951
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:13 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Andrew Byler on July
21, 1997 at 21:21:18:
You are sooo right about the DC's Metro Orange Line. The trains also
hit their top speed on the new Blue Line extension from Van Dorn St.
to Franconia/ Springfield which for a distance, parrallels I-495 (the
capital beltway). It also hit's top speed on the Green Line between
College Park & Greenbelt, Orange Line from Landover to New Carrollton
and the Blue/ Yellow Lines from National Airport to Braddock Rd. and
finally, the Red Line from Rockville to Shady Grove.
On a different note, you had mentioned what a feeling it is to be on a
train whizzing by backed-up traffic on I-66, Baltimore did the same
with their Metro, they built within the median of I-795 (the Northwest
Expwy) and take it from me, nothing advertises mass transit better
than seeing the train pass you while you're sitting still.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756962
- Posted by: Larry Hildes
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:22 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by John on July 21, 1997
at 20:47:20:
B.A.R.T. in the Bay area travels up to 80 MPH, and generally, in long
stretches btween stations travels at just under 70. When late, the
trains travel through the transbay tubes at 80.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756973
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:31 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Andrew Byler on July
21, 1997 at 21:21:18:
The fact is that the express routes you mentioned could not have their
speed limit raised without first replacing the signal system. The
current NYCT signal system would not offer adequate protection at
speeds above their current levels.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756978
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Steve on July 22,
1997 at 19:42:45:
I'll have to take your word on the signalling in New York.
The project I worked on with brake testing on the Broad St. subway was
in part to determine operating characteristics for the 12 year old
equipment for a new signalling system. However, they had raised the
track speeds prior to its installation, as I was in the cab as we
hurtled under Broad St. at 70 mph. So this is not true on all systems.
I think for New York, it is more a matter of rewiring and retiming to
cut the time it takes for signals in each block to clear after the
last train has passed than a need for a brand new signal system. On
the other hand, New York is making plans to install just such a brand
new system. One wonders if they plan on raising speeds at the same
time, or if they have even taken that into consideration.
Andy
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756987
- Posted by: Julio Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:42 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by John on July 21, 1997
at 20:47:20:
Although it is not a subway system _yet_, metro Miami's Metrorail is
said to reach speeds of or over 60 MPH in a 1-mile segment between the
Vizcaya and Douglas Road stations.
Commuters drive on US1 to the east of the rail @ 35 MPH or so during
rush hour wondering what are they doing driving to work.
BTW, I said Metrorail's not a subway _yet_ because there are studies
being conducted to link Florida International University with the Port
of Miami. The type of link has not been defined, although a recent
article in The Miami Herald the possibility of an underground link,
possibly light rail (yecch! on the light rail bit).
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 757021
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:10 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Andrew Byler on July
22, 1997 at 20:07:08:
When you mentioned Broad St. I firdst thought of the J train until I
realized you were referring to Philly. You are quite correct in that
most of the NYCT signal problems could be resolved by rewiring the
blocks. However, not all.
I am not a signal expert but as I see it, the single weakest point in
the NYCT system is that the yellow signal is not enforced by the
signal system. On most railroads, a train can not pass an approach
signal at top speed. The signal is enforced by the automatic speed
control. A train passing above the required speed will be put into an
emergency brake application. On the NYCT, the yellow signal has no
such enforcement. Therefore, a train operator can pass a yellow signal
at MAS (maximum allowable speed) with no enforcement unless he fails
to stop at the following red signal. However, if a train operator hits
a red signal at MAS, because of the current signal spacing and wiring,
he could conceivably hit a train in the next block before his train
will stop. Hence, the NYCT has reduced the MAS of all trains.
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 757078
- Posted by: Brian Bacuzzi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:56 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Julio Perez on July
23, 1997 at 07:30:37:
In regards to Miami getting a light rail subway... is it possible?
Aren't the water tables too high for that?
- Subject: Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 757079
- Posted by: Brian Bacuzzi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:56 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Julio Perez on July
23, 1997 at 07:30:37:
In regards to Miami getting a light rail subway... is it possible?
Isn't the water table too high for that?
Thread title: Did Tacoma Washington ever have a trolley bus system???? (756929)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:55 1997, by Zack Willhoite
- Subject: Did Tacoma Washington ever have a trolley bus system????
- Message Number: 756929
- Posted by: Zack Willhoite
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:55 1997
Did Tacoma Washington ever have an trolley bus system.
Thread title: New York Bus Service Fleet (756930)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:56 1997, by Bryan Layne
- Subject: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756930
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:56 1997
I was recently in New York City(thats why i havent posted for so
long)on a family vacation and as we were driving through CO-OP City in
the Bronx,I looked down and saw New York Bus Service's Yard and
garage.I saw about 150 0r so MCI Classics and old GM Fishbowls..anyway
just wanted to know if they still operate the GMC fishbowls and what
is the current bus roster...
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756953
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:14 1997
In Reply to: [5]New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Bryan Layne on
July 21, 1997 at 19:10:12:
Bryan,
The fishbowls you saw are very much active. They are suburbans from GM
of Canada with 8-cylinder engines and very fast. They pretty much only
operate during rush hours, but as with any coach at New York Bus
Service they are in immaculate condition.
Here is most (if not all) of their current roster:
1481-1505 Suburban fishbows from GM-Canada in approx. 1981/2
1600-1602 Suburban Classic TC40102-A GM-Canada approx. 1985/6
1603-1709 Suburban Classic TC40102-A MCI 1988
Classics #1700-1709 are equipped with wheelchair lifts.
I know that for some time NYBS was holding on to a few (probably about
10-20) older GM fishbowls (built approx. 1976/7), but I don't know if
they are still on NYBS' roster. NYBS (in my opinion) is the finest
operation in the NYC metro area. All of their buses are always in
tip-top shape, always spotlessly clean, inside and out, buses are
usually on time - just an extremely well managed company. There was a
NY Daily News article in the early 1980's on NYBS' and it's owner Ed.
Arrigoni (I hope the spelling is correct). I remember Mr. Arrigoni had
placed a then new GM-Canada fishbowl next to one of GM's original
fishbowls model 5301 (1959-60) and the reporter found it hard to
believe that these two buses were built 20 years apart. NYBS was also
able to boast a 100% air-conditioned fleet (with the A/C actually
working) long ago when it was a dream to most companies/transit
agencies.
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756964
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:23 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Wayne Johnson
on July 22, 1997 at 10:17:40:
And I though the fishbowls were only memories in New York! How much
longer will the New York Bus Service keep those in service? Do they
operate the fishbowls only in the Bronx, or do they use them on
express lines into Manhattan, also?
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756968
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:27 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by John on July
22, 1997 at 16:23:50:
All of NYBS' routes are premium fare express routes that run from the
Bronx to Manhattan. My guess is that the Canadian fishbowls will be
around for at least 4-5 more years.
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756985
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:40 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Wayne Johnson
on July 22, 1997 at 17:13:12:
What happened to the fishbowls used by the TA which were rebuilt by
Blitz? Did they end up at Nimco or where?
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756986
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:41 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Wayne Johnson
on July 22, 1997 at 17:13:12:
What happened to the fishbowls used by the TA which were rebuilt by
Blitz? Did they end up at Nimco or where?
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 756992
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:46 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Charles Fiori
on July 23, 1997 at 07:21:02:
Several of the TA's rebuilt fishbowls were sent to Long Island Bus
(Formally known as MSBA-Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority and
another MTA subsidiary). The TA had also sold some to a Brooklyn
operator - Metro Apple Express. I don't know if Metro Apple Express is
still around, but they were a very small company with express routes
between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Most of their buses were second hand
Flxible new look suburbans from NJ Transit. I suspect that these buses
have been scrapped. I'm sure MSBA has gotten rid of theirs also since
they have recently taken delivery of numerous new CNG Orion V buses.
- Subject: Re: New York Bus Service Fleet
- Message Number: 757042
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:27 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Wayne Johnson
on July 23, 1997 at 09:52:31:
Those Orion V buses are pieces of crap. They are extremely jittery and
can knock you off your feet when the gears change, the bus slows down
or accelerates. They are badly designed and cheaply built, with no
design consideration taken for the passenger, just the transit
company. These buses were not meant to last like the GM buses. Both
are very much in service in Toronto.
Thread title: Fire in Journal Square PATH Station? (756931)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:57 1997, by Bryan Layne
- Subject: Fire in Journal Square PATH Station?
- Message Number: 756931
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:57 1997
I heard that PATH had a fire in Journal Square Station....but when i
got there there was no evidence that there was ever a fire...so was
there a fire a week ago or not?
Thread title: Times Square SUBWAY sign (756932)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:54:57 1997, by Bryan Layne
- Subject: Times Square SUBWAY sign
- Message Number: 756932
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:54:57 1997
the new entrance to the Times Square-42nd Street Station thats built
into the building on the corner of 42nd and 7th....the very neat
SUBWAY sign on the top...does that light up and do any chaser light
kinda things...i didn't get to see it at pitch-black night when i was
there...do they just turn it on later?
Thread title: Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways (756942)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:06 1997, by Brian
- Subject: Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756942
- Posted by: Brian
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:06 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: High speed Subways posted by Andrew Byler on July
21, 1997 at 21:21:18:
Your telling me that BART travels at 50 MPH in SF? When I rode it
didn't seem that fast!
And that the NYC Subway travels above 35-40 MPH, 50 between stations
on the express??
Do any of the CTA Trains travel that fast here in Chicago, like the
evanston Express??
Are you saying that the trains don't need to be replaced, just raise
the power level of the third rail???
That almost seems to easy!!
And I'm not talking about rail to the suburbs that has stops in the
city.
Please respond ASAP
- Subject: Re: Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 756954
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:15 1997
In Reply to: [6]Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways posted
by Brian on July 21, 1997 at 22:00:53:
BART and WMATA (and also PATCO) all go only 50 mph at the most in the
tunnels. New York expresses are also limited to 50 mph. The CTA is
likewise limited to 50 mph, except perhaps on some of the highway
median lines (but again, those are not subways). You might try pacing
a Blue line or Dan Ryan train on the JFK, Dan Ryan, or Congress
Expressways to figure out its operating speed.
In New York you would need to do more than simply raise the power (and
that is not quite what I had in mind, but let me explain). New York's
B division has a number of newer models with a top speed of 75 mph,
because they were designed for use on the 2nd Ave. and Queens
Superexpress lines, which were to be modern high speed subways. So the
equipment is available. What needs imporvement is first the track
structure. The alinement must be such that excessive rocking cannot
occur, and standards progress in a somewhat exponential manner for
arithmetic speed increases. Second, it may be necessary to build more
substations not to increase voltage in the 3rd rail, but to ensure
that power is evenly distributed at a voltage as close to 600 DC as
possible (voltage drops the further you are from a substation -
sometimes quite crtically). Finally, if there are major curves whcih
you do not want restricted, some structural work to create
superelevation may be necessary.
All this has been done on the Broad St. express tracks in Philly, so
it is not impossible.
Andy Byler
- Subject: Re: Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways
- Message Number: 757017
- Posted by: MEMYSELFANDI
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:07 1997
In Reply to: [5]Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways posted
by Brian on July 21, 1997 at 22:00:53:
You can't have a train designed to run at a max of 50 MPH run at 70
MPH even if you raise the rail power, the alternators will burn. And
it is possible to add motors that will use the same power to run
faster. New York City's R44 and R46 type cars can run at 75 MPH and I
guess the R62 and R68 would too.
Thread title: From Me Brian Again to Andrew (756972)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:30 1997, by Brian Jakosz
- Subject: From Me Brian Again to Andrew
- Message Number: 756972
- Posted by: Brian Jakosz
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:30 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Orginally posted message(Re: High speed Subways
posted by Andrew Byler on July 22, 1997 at 10:18:06:
i have ridden on all the CTA Trains and really dont think they travel
above 40
Miles per hour, even the Forest Park ( Eisenhower), Dan Ryan, and
Ohare ( Kennedy) trains.
Even 50 in the tunnels downtown seems to fast. They make so much
noise, I
think the trains becasue they are so old, would fall apart if they
went any faster!
Is it really a fact that the CTA Travels at least up to 50?
If it isn't, I'm going to contact the CTA and ask them how fast their
trains go!
Thanks for all the informationa and in advance for answering another
question!
Brian
- Subject: Re: From Me Brian Again to Andrew
- Message Number: 756976
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:33 1997
In Reply to: [6]From Me Brian Again to Andrew posted by Brian Jakosz
on July 22, 1997 at 18:44:53:
It is a fact that they go 50 mph. I have paced them on the highway at
around that speed, and am confident they get going that fast in parts
of the Subway too. They don't go so fast on the el, though.
Here in Philly, the locals go 55 mph, and while it may seem hard to
believem when you are riding on it, that it can get going that fast in
only 1/2 a mile between stops, you can look through the screen and see
the digital speedometer in the cab.
Andy
Thread title: Department of Buses (756983)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:39 1997, by Fernando Perez
- Subject: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 756983
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:39 1997
To any who like to send me info or questions regarding Department of
buses feel free to E mail me. I am an avid bus, trolley and train buff
and employed by New York City transit as a bus operator.
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 756984
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:40 1997
In Reply to: [5]Department of Buses posted by Fernando Perez on July
23, 1997 at 03:47:25:
Good Morning. I love buses, too, growing up at the end of the Q15 and
bugging drivers there all day to let me change the signs, etc. I am
really trying to find any old NYC bus destination signs. Do you know
any drivers or other colleagues who have a collection and would like
to sell/trade?
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 756991
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:45 1997
In Reply to: [5]Department of Buses posted by Fernando Perez on July
23, 1997 at 03:47:25:
Hi Fernando,
Which depot do you operate out of??? I'm not a TA employee, but I've
managed to gather much bus and subway info over the years just from
riding often and driving past the depots and yards. I would like to
know if you have the fleet numbers to the buses in the Museum fleet. I
know a couple of them like 3758 (TDH5303) and 236 (Grumman 870). If I
have the numbers I can match the model of the bus to it. Thank you
much.
Wayne
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 756996
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:50 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Department of Buses posted by Wayne Johnson on
July 23, 1997 at 09:36:38:
I am an operator out of Amsterdam depot, I currently am on the extra
list. So you can find me on the M79, m104 or m116. Heres a list of the
museum fleet and where they are stored.
1917 5th Avenue model a 303 East New York
1938 Yellow 735 Double decker Queen Mary 2124 Mother Clara Hale
1948 GMC 5101 Honeymooners Model 2969 Jackie Gleason
1956 GMC 5106 3100 Queens Village
1957 Mack c49d 6259 Flatbush
1958 GMC 5106 9098 Manhattanville
1959 GMC 5301 100 Queens Village
1961 GMC 5301 1059 Jamaica
1962 GMC 5301 2151 Castleton
1963 GMC 5303 3758 Ulmer Park
1964 Flxible 401 5117 Queens Village
1966 GMC 5303 8466 Fresh Pond
1968 GMC 5303 8928 Ulmer Park
1969 Flxible 111-cc-d51 4727 Queens Village
1973 Flxible 53102-6-1 7340 Castelton
1980 Grumman 870 236 Crosstown
1981 GMC RTS-04 1201 Being preserved
Hope this list helps, the middle number is the bus number, and the
names are of the depots the bus is being stored at. I dont know where
the RTS is being kept now.
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 756997
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:51 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Department of Buses posted by Charles Fiori on
July 23, 1997 at 07:13:54:
I as well use to bother the bus operators on the Lower East Side of
Manhattan to change signs, ask endless questions and sit in the seat!
However I do not know of anyone who has a collection of old signs. But
knowing how us buffs are and how we love to help each other in our
passion try these guys, they may have info for you:
Bus club
The Metropolitan NY Bus Association
Gary Grahl
1425 Thierot Av. #6L
Bronx, NY 10460-3817
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 757000
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:53 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Department of Buses posted by Fernando Perez on
July 23, 1997 at 14:27:20:
What is a more appropriate title for you, bus 'driver', or bus
'operator'? The term bus 'operator' is used in brochures and
timetables, but don't you 'drive' the bus, rather than 'operate' it? I
mean, you 'operate' a subway train, so don't you 'drive' the bus?
Just curious.
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 757002
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Department of Buses posted by John on July 23,
1997 at 14:35:09:
In transit we say a bad operator is a driver, and a good operator is a
operator. It's one of those union classification titles. Like Bus
maintainer, General Supt. SLD, Etc. Since the trolleys were changed
from the hand controls to the PCC foot controls the name changed and
it has stuck. I think they changed Train Operator from Motorman
because motorperson didn't sound right for the female operators.
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 757006
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:58 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Department of Buses posted by Fernando Perez on
July 23, 1997 at 14:21:04:
Fernando,
Thanks a million. I knew the models and the fact that the fleet is
stored at different depots, but I really needed the bus fleet numbers
to complete my puzzle.
Thanks again,
Wayne
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 757161
- Posted by: Michael S. Buglak
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:02 1997
In Reply to: [6]Department of Buses posted by Fernando Perez on July
23, 1997 at 03:47:25:
I am a very interested "closet" bus & transit fan in the Philadelphia
suburbs. Next time I visit NYC, I would like to ride one of the New
Flyer artics if possible. Would like to know if the New Flyers are in
service yet on the NYCT & if so, on what lines. Also, their fleet
numbers. Thanks for any & all info -- Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville,
PA
- Subject: Re: Department of Buses
- Message Number: 757163
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:04 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Department of Buses posted by Michael S. Buglak on
August 01, 1997 at 17:00:49:
I dont know what the numbers of the buses are, I dont have them yet in
my roster book, but yes they are in operation. Mainly on 3Av. in the
Bronx on the Bx 55 and on the Grand Concourse on the Bx1, and Bx2.
Also on the Bx41. They are currently at one depot only, and that is
Kingsbridge Depot in Upper Manhattan. Soon tobe coming to Flatbush
depot.
Thread title: Re: What Would You Save? To Zack (756988)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:43 1997, by Charles
- Subject: Re: What Would You Save? To Zack
- Message Number: 756988
- Posted by: Charles
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:43 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: What Would You Save? posted by Zack on July 22,
1997 at 23:51:35:
The Low V's are still are 4902 trailer, 5290, 5292, 5443,5483 restored
motors They have been restored and are in good condition, and are
scattered Between the Transit Museum, and Coney Island Yd.
Thread title: Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus) (756989)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:44 1997, by Ray
- Subject: Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus)
- Message Number: 756989
- Posted by: Ray
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Bus Service Fleet posted by Charles Fiori
on July 23, 1997 at 07:21:02:
The last 72 of the re-built fishbowls were used on Staten Island
express
buses until 1992. Apparently they weren't re-built too well because
one of
them nearly disintegrated after the rear axle collapsed up into the
passenger area. The TA 'inspected' the remaining Blitz buses and found
them
to be unsafe. The 72 were pulled out of service and replaced in 1993
with 72 Orion express buses, the best in the TA express fleet, with
soft high-back reclining seats.
- Subject: Re: Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus)
- Message Number: 756990
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus) posted by Ray on
July 23, 1997 at 08:16:27:
Thanks for the reply, but what happened to the buses?
- Subject: Re: Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus)
- Message Number: 756999
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Re-built GM fishbowls (Blitz Bus) posted by
Charles Fiori on July 23, 1997 at 08:18:26:
Because of ADA requirements, the buses had to be replaced by wheels
chair equiped and kneel buses. I have heard around in my depot that
the buses were sold to Mexico, believe it or not.
Thread title: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site (756995)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:55:49 1997, by Dave
- Subject: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 756995
- Posted by: Dave
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:49 1997
After upgrading from AOL 3.0 for Win3.1 to AOL 3.0 for WIN95, all the
posts on this bulletin board display in huge fonts, 16 or 18 size.
Other web sites exhibit normal size fonts and the AOL sites do as
well. Has anyone else experienced this problem and do you know of a
cure?
- Subject: Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 756998
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:52 1997
In Reply to: [5]AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site posted
by Dave on July 23, 1997 at 11:15:51:
I've had this "problem" all along!!! I didn't even notice it, or more
precisely, didn't think it was unusual, to tell you the truth.
- Subject: Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 757005
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:55:57 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
posted by John on July 23, 1997 at 14:28:12:
Are you both using the AOL browser?
Can we hear some yay or nay's from people using IE or NS?
--Dave
- Subject: Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 757011
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:02 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
posted by David Pirmann on July 23, 1997 at 16:37:33:
nay everything displays fine in netscape 3&4
- Subject: Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 757012
- Posted by: Bob Andersen
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:03 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
posted by David Pirmann on July 23, 1997 at 16:37:33:
No problems with IE 3.0!
- Subject: Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
- Message Number: 757015
- Posted by: Michael Adler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:05 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and this web site
posted by Zack on July 23, 1997 at 19:04:25:
No problemo with Netscape 2.0 for 16 bit/Win95
-------------
Michael Adler
Lakewood, ColorFUL Colorado
City Letter Carrier serving Wheat Ridge & Mountain Viw (not Netscape's
hometown )
Thread title: PATH WTC service (757010)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:01 1997, by Lou
- Subject: PATH WTC service
- Message Number: 757010
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:01 1997
Does anyone know if the new direct service on PATH from Hoboken to the
Trade Center on weekends is a success yet?? This is the best thing
PATH has done in years. It used to be a real pain to go to Grove St.,
then double back.
- Subject: Re: PATH WTC service
- Message Number: 757016
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:06 1997
In Reply to: [6]PATH WTC service posted by Lou on July 23, 1997 at
18:35:46:
It's probably considered a success since they extended the original 6
month trial for another 6 months. They'll probably keep it since it's
in PATH's best interest to provide better service to Hoboken, both for
the casual user and also to make up for the loss of people due to
Midtown Direct. I expect you'll see it stay. (I'd also advocate
getting rid of the 33rd-Hob-JSQ round-the-world service and in general
increasing weekend and offpeak service, but I don't think that'll
happen. They've been doing the round-the-world for 40 years...)
--Dave
Thread title: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) (757019)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:09 1997, by John
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757019
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:09 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PATH WTC service posted by David Pirmann on July
23, 1997 at 21:35:00:
Why doesn't PATH have direct service between 33rd Street and Newark,
or Hoboken and Newark?
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757102
- Posted by: Joshua Caesar
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:16 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) posted by John
on July 23, 1997 at 22:34:17:
John wrote " Why doesn't PATH have direct service between 33rd Street
and Newark, or Hoboken and Newark?"
I always wonder this myself. The direct service from Hoboken to Newark
could be cordinated with NJT trains, so that riders on trains bound
for New York Penn could go to Hoboken. As for extending 33rd service
past JSQ to Newark, this is the one that really gets me. How hard
could it be to do? It would get rid of all the waiting crowds at
Journal Square, and certainley make many Newark bound commutes faster.
I don't think it would help Manhattan bpound riders much, aas they
would probably spend the same time waiting for a 33rd street train in
Newark or Journal Square.
JC
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757115
- Posted by: NO SERVICE
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) posted by
Joshua Caesar on July 28, 1997 at 11:35:28:
But NJT DOES Have direct service from Newark to Hoboken.
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757122
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:32 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) posted by NO
SERVICE on July 29, 1997 at 00:09:36:
For how much? 3 bucks? PATH: How much? 1 buck.
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757147
- Posted by: Lou from middletown
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:52 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) posted by John
on July 29, 1997 at 02:17:21:
Actually,its only a buck! One way.
- Subject: Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service)
- Message Number: 757149
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:53 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PATH NWK service (was WTC service) posted by Lou
from middletown on July 30, 1997 at 19:34:56:
Really? Well I have never taken NJ Transit from Hoboken to Newark --
but I can still put up an argument . . . well, actually no, I can't!
You win. But one thing: NJ Transit service from Hoboken to Penn
Station is limited. Most of the Hoboken - Newark service goes to Broad
Street.
Thread title: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and (757025)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:13 1997, by .
- Subject: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, and
- Message Number: 757025
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:13 1997
Thread title: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver (757028)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:16 1997, by Michael Adler
- Subject: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver
- Message Number: 757028
- Posted by: Michael Adler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:16 1997
Hi all,
Wondering why not MTA send 1 6th Ave trains to the Rockaways or at
least to Euclid Av and 1 8th Ave trains to Coney Island via Culver
line? this can be done north of Jay St-Boro Hall station. Is there any
reason(s) why MTA can't do it?
Sample routes:
--------------
A-207 to the Rockaways/Lefferts
V-21-QnsBdg to Euclid or Rockaways
C-145/168/Bedford Pk to Coney Island via Culver line
F-179 to Coney Island
Michael
- Subject: Re: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver
- Message Number: 757029
- Posted by: Andrew Huie
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:16 1997
In Reply to: [6]switch routes for Rockaway/Culver posted by Michael
Adler on July 24, 1997 at 00:14:42:
Probably because it is too much of a pain to switch lines from one
track to the other and vice versa, especially during rush hours. Each
train that has to signal which line they are, and if that train has to
switch over, it has to synchronize with the other lines, which could
cost precious minutes. One somewhat apocryphal story has it that, at
one time, north of 96th Street and Broadway, some trains from the #1
would go express, while some trains coming from the 2/3 side would go
local. This caused chronic delays at the crossover north of 96th,
until they decided they decided to make all the trains from Van
Cortlandt go local, and all the trains from Lenox and 241st go
express.
- Subject: Re: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver
- Message Number: 757034
- Posted by: Ray
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:20 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver posted by Andrew
Huie on July 24, 1997 at 02:35:34:
You could do the switching south of West 4th Street. Might not be the
worst idea long-term. As the west side of Manhattan is becoming more
desirable for businesses, additional 8th Ave & 6th Ave services might
make sense. The only problem would be that northbound 8th Avenue
trains would have go al the way uptown to be turned back, unless 59th
street has a track configuration that permits turn-arounds. Northbound
6th Avenue trains would have to to 21st Street to be turned around, or
even further east once the connection to Queens Blvd services is
complete.
- Subject: Re: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver
- Message Number: 757056
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: switch routes for Rockaway/Culver posted by Andrew
Huie on July 24, 1997 at 02:35:34:
The old IRT routing used to be like this: Broadway-7th ave services
used to north of 96th St,whereas 7th Ave. services went up the cutoff.
They changed this after they changed the IRT platforms to accomodate
the R-units in the 1950's.
Thread title: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts, (757033)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:20 1997, by .
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757033
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:20 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757044
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:29 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757045
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:29 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757048
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:32 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757050
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:34 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757060
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:42 1997
- Subject: Re: CURE FOR AOL PROBLEMS: GET NETSCAPE (was Re: AOL for WIN95, large fonts,
- Message Number: 757136
- Posted by: .
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:43 1997
Thread title: Tokens and T-shirts (757035)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:21 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Tokens and T-shirts
- Message Number: 757035
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:21 1997
I read an article from the Associated Press concerning the nostalgia
of the subway token. In the article there was mention of an
establishment called New York City Subway Line run by Lynn Lambert.
Does anyone know where this establishment is located or how to
contact? According to the article there's suppossed to be a t-shirt
available with a facsimile of a token on it. Thanks , Steve
- Subject: Re: Tokens and T-shirts
- Message Number: 757038
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:24 1997
In Reply to: [6]Tokens and T-shirts posted by Steve on July 24, 1997
at 11:12:36:
The Transit Museum gift shop has lots of different t-shirt designs,
one of which probably has a token on it.
Thread title: Septa's Universal Pass ( was Re: City with best mass Transit) (757036)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:22 1997, by Andrew Byler
- Subject: Septa's Universal Pass ( was Re: City with best mass Transit)
- Message Number: 757036
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:22 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: City with best mass Transit posted by Fred Wellman
on July 23, 1997 at 18:03:22:
By one fare on Septa is meant using a Trailpass for one of the zones.
The Zone 5-6 pass allows riding everywhere on Septa, as that is the
highest zone number. It is an unlimited pass in that you can ride as
many times as you want, and transfer as often as you want. Here's a
scenario to illustrate this:
Joe Blow is an MBA student from Exton (on the Paoli Downingtown R5
line). he commutes in every day to 30th St. to attend Wharton using
his zone 5 trailpass. Many Thursdays, the Phillies have an afternoon
game. Since Joe has no classes Thursday afternoon, he decides to put
off his work and meet a buddy in Center City for lunch. So he hops on
the subway -surface cars (a trolley subway for the Philadelphia
illiterate) and rides in to 15th St. to meet his friend who works for
the city - lets say he is a Financial Analyst. After lunch, joe and
our analyst friend (putting his sick time to good use no doubt) they
take the Broad St. Subway down to the game, which the Phillies lose by
at least 15 runs, as usual. Then joe goes to meet his girlfriend, who
lives in Oak Lane. He rides the Broad St. express to Fern Rock and
gets a bus to take him to upper Old York Rd. After having a pleasant
evening with her, he hops a R5 train at Melrose Park, and rides home
to Downingtown.
At the end of this day, Joe has had to do no more to ride all these
different modes and to transfer than show his pass. In fact, he got a
very good use out of it.
My point being, I don't know of another city you can do this in -
transfer freely between Bus/Trolley to Subway to Train via one pass
(except maybe Boston). You certainly can't in New York, where if we
had Joe living in Poughkeepsie and attending NYU, and seeing a Yankees
game and visiting a girlfired in Hempstead, he'd be paying multiple
fares throughout the day.
Andy Byler
- Subject: Re: Septa's Universal Pass ( was Re: City with best mass Transit)
- Message Number: 757049
- Posted by: Fred Wellman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:33 1997
In Reply to: [5]Septa's Universal Pass ( was Re: City with best mass
Transit) posted by Andrew Byler on July 24, 1997 at 12:53:42:
I agree using a pass that can all be done. You are right about MBTA
being
the same. Cleveland used to be I am not sure now.
Thread title: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold (757039)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:25 1997, by William A. Padron
- Subject: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
- Message Number: 757039
- Posted by: William A. Padron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:25 1997
Believe it or not, there is one location on the entire MTA New York
City Transit system where you do not have to use the Metrocard Gold to
transfer from subway to bus (and vice versa). The Rockaway Parkway
station of the BMT "L" 14th Street-Canarsie Line offers a direct
loading area between the train platform and the even level roadway
that is still used by B42 buses that operate to and from the Canarsie
Shore in Brooklyn. However, free transfer to the other buses at this
location you must use the Metrocard gold as well as that at 149th
Street-Third Avenue in the Bronx between the IRT #2 and #5 subway
lines and the BX55 Limited Stop Buses.
Sincerely,
William A. Padron
- Subject: Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
- Message Number: 757040
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
posted by William A. Padron on July 24, 1997 at 14:40:50:
This practice dates back to when the Canarsie Line was cut back from
the pier to Rockaway Parkway. The original free transfer was to the
trolley, since converted to bus.
- Subject: Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
- Message Number: 757041
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:26 1997
In Reply to: [6]Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
posted by William A. Padron on July 24, 1997 at 14:40:50:
Actually I believe you can make the transfer ANYWHERE without
Metrocard Gold. I think the Gold card just allows 4 people to transfer
on 1 card, only one transfer for the Blue.
The point is moot anyway unless you had a really full Blue card and
haven't used it up yet.
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
- Message Number: 757046
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:30 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
posted by David Pirmann on July 24, 1997 at 17:26:16:
There is another Free Subway to Bus Transfer (and reverse) from the
BX55 to from the 2/5 train at 149/ 3 ave. This was started when the 3
ave el was torn down in the Bronx.
There used to be a third freebie- M train (the current "stub" to Jay
Street A Train. The old maps also indicated a temporary free bus on
the J el that was torn down before the new Archer Ave Subway opened.
ANother J freebie was from Marcy Street to the Fulton Ferry" (Source:
Same old map)
- Subject: Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
- Message Number: 757047
- Posted by: NO
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:31 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Free Subway-To-Bus Transfer Without Metrocard Gold
posted by subway-buff on July 24, 1997 at 19:47:44:
Those transfers are there now, so are 468 other bus-subway transfer
points.
Thread title: What would you Do??? (757043)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:28 1997, by Brian
- Subject: What would you Do???
- Message Number: 757043
- Posted by: Brian
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:28 1997
If the Transit Authorities from the following cities told you you
could renovate
an old subway or EL Line, which one would you pick and what would you
do??
Please do each city seperate or only do as many as you have been to:
New York
Chicago
Paris
Other ( Pick one city on your own, if you can think of another one)
If I did Chicago I would re-do the Cermak/Douglas Branch of the Blue
Line.
I would eliminate some silly stations for little streets and have it
stop at
the same ones the Congress Branch does, except maybe for a few.
I would re paint the El Structure with the help of anyone who wanted
to help.
All the stations would be designed in a different way with some theme.
The 54th/Cermak Terminal would be the best one with signs to the park
and ride
lot and All trains to city and then Ohare signs.
They all would have tv's protected by the new glass that could be shot
at or
anything and not break! The station agents would be really nice and
encourge you
to ride!
I would look to the government for funding to Berwyn, Maybe Oak Park
Avenue
and offer express service like the Purple Line. Have a new shuttle
line between
54th/Cermak and the Berwyn stop, maybe the pink line ( we here in
Chicago color
code everything).
All the stations would be handicapped accessible with elevators.
you should be much more descroptive if you want to or you can be
breif.
I would appreciate more descriptive
Thanks and can't wait to hear your ideas!!!!!
Thread title: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass ) (757051)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:34 1997, by Dan Lawrence
- Subject: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass )
- Message Number: 757051
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:34 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Septa's Universal Pass ( was Re: City with best
mass Transit) posted by Fred Wellman on July 24, 1997 at 22:06:15:
In Baltimore, the MTA offers 3 umlimited types of passes:
1. The Day Pass: $3.00 buys a pass good for unlimited riding on all
MTA routes (bus, subway and Light Rail) on that day until Midnight.
2. The Weekly Pass: $14.00 buys a pass good as above for 7 days
(Sunday to Saturday)
3. The Monthly Pass: $54.00 buys a pass good for the calendar month.
Passes permit reverse riding, multiple vehicle trips, and are great
for rail and bus fans - hop on and off at great photo spots.
- Subject: Re: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass )
- Message Number: 757058
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass )
posted by Dan Lawrence on July 25, 1997 at 00:31:38:
The problem with Baltimore's passes (and those in New Jersey, New
York, Chicago, San Francisco, etc.) is that you cannot ride the
commuter rail and the city transit on the same pass. You've been able
to do this on Septa for years. It is especially disgraceful in New
York, New Jersey, and Chicago, where the same agency has run the
trains and the transit for years, and they still have not gotten their
act together on this. new York especially, consdering the large number
of people who must ride a subway or bus to reach their final
destination from the commuter trains. At least Baltimore, Washington,
and the rest can plead multiple overlapping systems.
I forgot one other benefit of Septa, that is lacking (for now) in
Boston. Septa's commuter rail runs through center city from suburb to
suburb, which is where much of the commuting action is these days. Now
if they could only get their act togehter and get some service using
the ex Reading and PRR near the King of Prussia / Valley Forge area
(the second largest employment center in the region) ...
Andy Byler
- Subject: Re: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass )
- Message Number: 757061
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:42 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass
) posted by Andrew Byler on July 25, 1997 at 14:49:29:
Although NJ Transit doesn't have an integrated pass, it has a separate
bus and rail passes. The bus pass can be used on all NJT and NJT
contract bus lines and the Newark subway. Rail passes can be used on
the commuter rail lines and also on busses for a small charge ("feeder
fare").
- Subject: Re: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass )
- Message Number: 757065
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:46 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Baltimore's Passes (WAS:Re: Septa's Universal Pass
) posted by Andrew Byler on July 25, 1997 at 14:49:29:
That's one thing I'll say is good about the Baltimore & Washington
transportation systems is the ease in connecting from one form to
another--whether it be light rail to the MARC Commuter Rail at Camden
Yards in Baltimore or from Amtrak or MARC at Union Station in DC to
the Metrorail, and this ability continues to grow, the light rail will
open this fall three new extensions to of which go to major
transportation centers in Baltimore, one to BWI and the other to Penn
Station (Amtrak). In DC, it's not quite so near perfection. They are
still going through the planning stages to get an extension of the
Orange Line from West Falls Church to Dulles Int'l Airport. One bright
note though is that the new North Terminal of Washington Nat'l Airport
just opened a few weeks ago and it has DIRECT access to the Metro
Station on the Blue & Yellow Lines.
Thread title: Derailment Investigations Concluded (757052)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:35 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: Derailment Investigations Concluded
- Message Number: 757052
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:35 1997
The NY Times reports today they've concluded their investigations into
the two derailments.
To summarize, July 4'th Harlem derailment was caused by a worker
repairing another switch in that area mistakenly causing the wrong
switch to operate; and the July 11 Brooklyn incident was caused by a
faulty relay which would have prevented operation of the switch by the
tower...
- Subject: Re: Derailment Investigations Concluded
- Message Number: 757057
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:39 1997
In Reply to: [5]Derailment Investigations Concluded posted by David
Pirmann on July 25, 1997 at 08:00:04:
Thanks, Dave. Anyone who cares can access the NY Times on-line for the
full story. Interestingly, now that I think about it, I took the
NYCTA's Derailment/Collision Seminar back in 1981, I think it was. One
of the role-plays we did dealt with a similar situation as the recent
IRT derailment. Switch gets thrown under a passing train, etc. I, as a
lowly analyst, suggested that there was a false signal aspect allowing
such to happen. The signal maintainer in the "Committee" blustered
that there was no way in the world that that could happen. Life
imitates art imitates life, I guess.
Thread title: Route (757054)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:37 1997, by Jeff Magid
- Subject: Route
- Message Number: 757054
- Posted by: Jeff Magid
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:37 1997
I'm trying to figure out how to get from:
- 59th Street and Lexington to the Kings County Courthouse (on Adams
St.)
then from
Kings County Courthouse (on Adams Street) to Penn Station
any route geniuses out there?
- Subject: Re: Route
- Message Number: 757055
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]Route posted by Jeff Magid on July 25, 1997 at
09:30:57:
To Kings County Courthouse
**4 or 5 from 59-Lex to Borough Hall (1st stop in Brooklyn) or
**N or R from 59-Lex to Court St.-Boro hall (1st stop in Bklyn) or
Lawrence St.
To Penna. Station
**N or R from Court St-Boro Hall or Lawrence St. to 34 St-6 Av. Walk 1
block west, Ride back of train and exit at 32d St end.
**2 or 3 from Borough Hall to Penn Station
**A or C from Jay St-Boro Hall to Penn Station
**F from Jay St-Boro Hall to 34 St-6 Av. [See further on N or R above]
- Subject: Re: Route
- Message Number: 757059
- Posted by: Jeff Magid
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:41 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Route posted by Charles Fiori on July 25, 1997 at
10:03:57:
Thank you Mr. Fiori, o route king. I appreciate the feedback.
Thread title: pathtrain schedule (757062)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:43 1997, by jgraisin
- Subject: pathtrain schedule
- Message Number: 757062
- Posted by: jgraisin
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:43 1997
Does anyone know the Saturday nite schedule from NYC to Jersey City
by Path train? This info. would be appreciated A.S.A.P
- Subject: Re: pathtrain schedule
- Message Number: 757063
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:44 1997
In Reply to: [5]pathtrain schedule posted by jgraisin on July 25, 1997
at 22:49:22:
At night, trains usually run every 20-30 minutes.
- Subject: Re: pathtrain schedule
- Message Number: 757071
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:50 1997
In Reply to: [6]pathtrain schedule posted by jgraisin on July 25, 1997
at 22:49:22:
see [7]Path Schedule on the web.
--Dave
Thread title: Cedar Street Subway (757064)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:45 1997, by John
- Subject: Cedar Street Subway
- Message Number: 757064
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:45 1997
Does anybody have any information about the old Cedar St. subway in
Newark? When was it shut down? Where did it go? What stops were along
the line? Do any stations still exist? Did NJ Transit ever operate the
Cedar St. subway? Any information would be appreciated.
- Subject: Re: Cedar Street Subway
- Message Number: 757132
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:40 1997
In Reply to: [5]Cedar Street Subway posted by John on July 25, 1997 at
23:56:33:
The Cedar Street Subway was the connector to the Public Service
Building. It was shut down when PSNJ converted the bulk of the surface
streetcar system to All-Service vehicles.
- Subject: Re: Cedar Street Subway
- Message Number: 757162
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Cedar Street Subway posted by John on July 25, 1997 at
23:56:33:
John, my rather incomplete research suggests that Cedar Street was the
first stop of a line that spurred off the City Subway line between
Penn Station and Broad Street. This is clear from a map of the line
http://www.nycsubway.org/nwksub/nwkmap.jpg
The reference "Cedar Street Subway" makes me wonder if this line
eventually surfaced, like three other spur lines did.
As I mentioned in the thread titled "PCC Cars," I remember that by the
time I first saw the Cedar Street station as a teenager, about 1966,
you could still access it from either Kresge's Dept. Store or
McCrory's Five and Dime, or by escalator from the Public Service
terminal. But by that time they had been running buses through the
tunnel, for some reason that still baffles me. However, I recall that
the tracks were intact and flush with the pavement, as opposed to
raised on ties. I had the impression the buses continued and surfaced
a couple blocks later; Dan Lawrence says there was a loop.
So that's all I know. I wish I could find "The Newark Subway Lines" by
J.H. Riley, as I feel this would answer some of our questions. Let me
know if you find out more. I'm bonaire@pacifier.com
Thread title: 4 train (757066)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:46 1997, by BF
- Subject: 4 train
- Message Number: 757066
- Posted by: BF
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:46 1997
Can anyone tell me if the 4 train is still screwed up on weekends
going into manhattan from Brooklyn? I had hoped that this info would
be available on the MTA site but no... The last few times I took it
there were major delays plus we had to get off at Bowling Green and
change trains very slowly.
I'd appreciate a fast response.
Thread title: Directions wanted immediately (757067)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:47 1997, by Pauline Paul
- Subject: Directions wanted immediately
- Message Number: 757067
- Posted by: Pauline Paul
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:47 1997
I need directions from Maple Street in Brooklyn to 211 West 61st
Street
I am very lost and don't know how to travel to classes.
I would appreciate the help.
Thanks
- Subject: Re: Directions wanted immediately
- Message Number: 757070
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:49 1997
In Reply to: [6]Directions wanted immediately posted by Pauline Paul
on July 26, 1997 at 13:05:35:
You are near Flatbush Ave near the Zoo? Right ?
Walk to Prospect Park and Cross Flatbush Avenue. AT flatbush and Empre
Blvd you will see a cross street at an angle this is Ocean ave. The
station entrance is on Flatbush Ave (The side closer to the park.)
Take an uptown D train. This train will have the Letter " D" in an
orange circle on the front of the train opposite the engineer
(motorman/train operator). Take this train to the 59th Street Coumbus
Circle Station. Walk North (if the park is beside you are going the
right way) to 61 Street. You will be on Central Park West. Walk to 61
Street and turn left. Good luck
signed- Subway-buff
(with luck soon to be NYCT employee!)
- Subject: Re: Directions wanted immediately
- Message Number: 757075
- Posted by: Joe M
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:53 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Directions wanted immediately posted by
subway-buff on July 26, 1997 at 17:31:23:
Good luck subway what kind of job
- Subject: Re: Directions wanted immediately
- Message Number: 757076
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:54 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Directions wanted immediately posted by Joe M on
July 26, 1997 at 21:08:51:
Not Yet ! Interview is 8/11/97 for Station Agent. Did I pass this
test.
B=)
Thread title: Crime In the Subways - Update (757068)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:48 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Crime In the Subways - Update
- Message Number: 757068
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:48 1997
Early this morning (7/25) a priest from Ireland, riding an A train in
Rockaway was accosted by four miscreants who demanded his wallet.
Although the priest gave up his wallet and the $15 it contained, these
sub-humans slashed the priest's face with a broken bottle. The four,
ages 16, 15, 15 & 14, were arrested a short time later.
Since the NYPD and the transit police merged, there has been a
reduction in the number of police riding trains and patroling
stations. There has also been a corresponding increase in fare
beating, radio playing and smoking on the trains. The "quality of
life" type crime increase is a pretty fair indicator that there will
be a resurgence of violent crime on the subways.
- Subject: Re: Crime In the Subways - Update
- Message Number: 757104
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:18 1997
In Reply to: [5]Crime In the Subways - Update posted by Steve on July
26, 1997 at 15:03:03:
I guess I have to disagree with you,but just because there are
scattered instences all the time on the subway..does not mean that
violant crime on the whole system is going to rise.And even though its
kinda annoying radio playing(i was riding the Staten Island Ferry,and
i listened to it all the way across)is not really hurting
anybody,especially since its usually is played when the train is very
much not full and its not crime,its just one of those things that we
wished wasnt there.And smoking,come on,are you saying that violant
crime is rising in local donut shops...some just dont care about what
other people are thinking about them,then why would they be worried
about smokin on a train?It doesnt mean that there going to turn into
the people from "The Incident".
- Subject: Re: Crime In the Subways - Update
- Message Number: 757118
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:29 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Crime In the Subways - Update posted by Bryan
Layne on July 28, 1997 at 13:15:56:
Feel free to disagree with me. However, I think most NYPD brass agree
with me about 'quality of life' crimes and their relation to major
crimes although they would really disagree with me about less cops on
the subway. The major lesson learned in recent years, by the police,
is that the people who commit the so called 'quality of life' offenses
are more likely to be the same ones who commit the vilent crimes
(although - not in every case). As on example I can site the sweeps
for 'Fare Beating'. Do you realize that more than 80% of those picked
up for fare evasion are jailed for reasons other than the evasion.
They are found to have outstanding warrants or are carrying weapons or
drugs or are wanted on other charges.
Another example of this is how the TA combats graffiti. The psychology
is quite simple. Thw reward for the graffiti vandal is to see his
'TAG' on a train. The TA policy is to take a train with graffiti
out-of-service for cleaning. The vandal never gets his reward. That's
why you very rarely see the mural type of graffiti which dominated in
the 70s and early 80s.
- Subject: Re: Crime In the Subways - Update
- Message Number: 757142
- Posted by: Lou L
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:48 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Crime In the Subways - Update posted by Steve on
July 29, 1997 at 01:19:14:
Yes Transit and NYPD have merged but on the radio (Scanner) they still
use differrent Freq and when they are both up on the Brooklyn South
Freq Central (Dispatch) refers to them as Transit as in "Sgt Transit,
go ahead". So I wonder how really "merged" they are at the operation
level.
- Subject: Re: Crime In the Subways - Update
- Message Number: 757152
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:55 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Crime In the Subways - Update posted by Lou L on
July 30, 1997 at 11:40:03:
I don't know how merged they really are operationally but I can tell
you, as a very frequent subway rider, there are less cops on the train
post merger.
Thread title: Puerto Rico subway construction? (757069)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:49 1997, by Fernando Perez
- Subject: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757069
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:49 1997
Can someone help me in obtaining info on the construction of a subway
in San Juan or San Turce Puerto Rico? I've looked on the web and have
only found one picture of construction plans of a station. Im looking
for more details and plans. Anyone have a info please e mail me or
post it.
- Subject: Re: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757094
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:09 1997
In Reply to: [6]Puerto Rico subway construction? posted by Fernando
Perez on July 26, 1997 at 16:01:58:
Fernando,
You might try writing to LTK Engineering Services of Blue Bell, PA.
They are one of the engineering firms involved in the contract.
Address is:
Two Valley Square
Suite 300
512 Township Line Rd.
Blue Bell, PA 19422
The engineering firm DMJM is also involved.
There was also some information in the magazine "Civil Enigneering"
published by the American Society of Civil Engineers during the past
12 months in an article. You should be able to find that at a local
University library, or at the main branch (42nd St.) of the New York
public library. Failing that, try interlibrary loan.
Good luck!
Andy
- Subject: Re: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757106
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Puerto Rico subway construction? posted by Andrew
Byler on July 27, 1997 at 22:16:56:
Thanks!
- Subject: Re: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757107
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:20 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Puerto Rico subway construction? posted by
Fernando Perez on July 28, 1997 at 19:03:51:
Fernando,
You're welcome.
One other note. I think DMJM's full name is Dogulas, Mendenhall,
Johnson, and Mann. I may have the two M's mixed up. Try the business
to business white pages or the internet to find their address (I think
they have a New York office).
Andy
- Subject: Re: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757108
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:21 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Puerto Rico subway construction? posted by
Fernando Perez on July 28, 1997 at 19:03:51:
Oops, one other note!
When you write LTK, address your mail to Hank Raudenbush. He was the
enigneer on the project who had the track map and other info when I
was there. Tell him I sent you - he should remember me.
Andy
- Subject: Re: Puerto Rico subway construction?
- Message Number: 757114
- Posted by: Derek Nisbett
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:25 1997
In Reply to: [5]Puerto Rico subway construction? posted by Fernando
Perez on July 26, 1997 at 16:01:58:
Fernando,
The official name of the San Juan transit system is called the
Tren Urbano. Siemens Transit Team of Puerto Rico has won the contract.
Juan R. Requena Associates of P.R, engineers; Alternate Concepts of
Boston are also part of the project. Completion of the project is
scheduled for 2001. Information was gathered from the Metro issue of
July/August 1996 pg 8, there is also a picture of the model cars.
Thread title: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC (757073)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:52 1997, by Steve
- Subject: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC
- Message Number: 757073
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Paris Metro not Airconditioned posted by
subway-buff on July 26, 1997 at 19:31:50:
There are 36 R-33s assigned to the Corona fleet which are not Air
Conditioned. During the summer months, the #7 line cuts its trains
from 11 to 10 cars due to this. BTW - they are referred to as single
car units as opposed to married pairs. Trailer cars have no traction
motors which these certainly do. In addition, there are 10 R-32s which
were also rebuilt by GE which have no AC. They are assigned to the
207th Street shop and like the R-33s, they are not used during the
summer.
- Subject: Re: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC
- Message Number: 757112
- Posted by: NO ROOM
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:24 1997
In Reply to: [5]NYCT Cars Sans HVAC posted by Steve on July 26, 1997
at 20:09:01:
Why didn't these R32s get AC? THe R33s didn't get AC not because of
cost,
but because there's no room.
- Subject: Re: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC
- Message Number: 757119
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:30 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC posted by NO ROOM on July 28,
1997 at 23:05:26:
Where did you get your information? All but 36 R-33s are air
conditioned. It was the overhaul contract and not the size of the car.
Same with the R-32s. 585 R-32s, overhauled by Morrison Knudssen in
1988-89 are air conditioned while 10 overhauled bt Buffalo Transit
Services are not. I assure you that the 10 are the same size as the
other 585 cars.
- Subject: Re: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC
- Message Number: 757154
- Posted by: NO MAINLINE
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:57 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: NYCT Cars Sans HVAC posted by Steve on July 29,
1997 at 01:24:34:
I'm sorry, but for a minute there I forgot about the mainline R33s
from the 2, I was talking about the Flushing cars.
Thread title: PCC Cars (757080)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:56:57 1997, by Frankr
- Subject: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757080
- Posted by: Frankr
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:57 1997
Your collection of PCC cars' pictures is fine, except for the omission
of Pittsburgh. Pittburgh Railways had 660 PCC cars, and PAT still has
a dozen left and in shuttle service between Drake and Castle Shannon.
PA Trolley Museum (see their web page) has several in Pgh Rys livery.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757081
- Posted by: Joe M
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:56:58 1997
In Reply to: [5]PCC Cars posted by Frankr on July 27, 1997 at
09:22:13:
There is a section on Pittsburgh PCC's
On the PCC on the WWW go to other cities then Pittsburgh
You have to click on the pictures referenced in the text
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757085
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by Joe M on July 27, 1997 at
11:17:16:
Speaking of which, Newark's PCC cars are scheduled to be replaced in a
year or two. This is a dumb idea, as they are the best maintained PCC
cars anywhere, and they're only 50! Does anyone know what's going to
happen to these cars?
Charlie Bonaire
PS If they're up for grabs, I got dibs on Car 13.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757092
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by Charlie Bonaire on July 27,
1997 at 16:42:37:
Well about the same time NJT is done with them, San Francisco will be
in the market for a few new ones to service the
Embarcadero-Fisherman's Wharf line currently under construction. I
expect to see them go there or to some other startup trolley
project...
--Dave
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757097
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:12 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by David Pirmann on July 27, 1997
at 21:37:15:
I take the Newark Subway all the time, and I have been doing so for
many years. Because the PCCs have been in service for so long on that
line, and since that was the only type of trolley car used on that
line for decades, they have become a legend (at least to Newark
residents and frequent users of the City Subway) and the Newark Subway
has become associated with its PCC workhorses . I have grown attached
to these cars over the years, as have many other people, and the #7 -
Newark City Subway just won't be the same without its legendary PCC
trolley cars roaring through Branch Brook Park.
BTW - What happened to the cars that were painted white with blue and
red stripes? Were they just repainted to match the other black-white
cars, or were they removed from service?
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757103
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:17 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by John on July 27, 1997 at
22:32:50:
I believe that the white with red and blue stripes scheme was the
first NJT paint scheme. All remaining cars were repainted into the
current NJT paint scheme. Of the original 30 cars, several were
wrecked and at least 2 were sold to the RTA in Cleveland. One of those
(or one of the original Twin Cities cars sold to Shaker Heights) was
obtained by the Minnesota Transportation Museum (Como-Harriet
Streetcar Line) and is being restored to its orginal TCRT condition.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757110
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:22 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by David Pirmann on July 27, 1997
at 21:37:15:
I hope you are right about this, Dave, but SF's recent history has
been "Go with the unproven new technology".
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757111
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:23 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by Dan Lawrence on July 28, 1997
at 12:25:08:
Thanks to those who answered my question.
Back when I was a juvenile delinquent, Public Service ran the City
Subway and painted the PCCs a handsome gray and white. We were
fascinated by the line, especially the phantom spurs that once linked
to streetcar lines. I haven't been to Newark in many years, but it
will be a sad day when the PCCs go.
Also, I know a few were wrecked but never learned the details. (I'd
guess the accidents happened where the cars cross Orange Street, near
where we lived.) Does anyone know?
While we're on the subject, if anyone knows where I can find a copy of
"The Newark City Subway Lines" by John Harrington Riley (1987), please
let me know.
CB
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757120
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:30 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by Charlie Bonaire on July 28,
1997 at 22:19:59:
I don't know anything about any crashes, but I wouldn't be surprised
if they took place at the Orange Street crossing (There are no gates
there!! Only a traffic light and the bell and horn of the trolley car
seperate it from a side-impact by a drunk driver).
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757121
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:31 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by Charlie Bonaire on July 28,
1997 at 22:19:59:
By the way, why do you have to "Pay As You Leave" on trips going
toward Franklin Avenue?
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757131
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:39 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by John on July 29, 1997 at
02:03:08:
Two of the cars were wrecked in a rear-end collision in the subway.
Two were sold to RTA, 1 was scrapped after the roof of the old Cedar
St. subway (where it was stored) collapsed due to surface
construction. (I believe they were tearing down the Public Service
Terminal, but I may be wrong.)
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757138
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:44 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by Dan Lawrence on July 29, 1997
at 12:33:16:
Dan, thanks for clarifying the crash thing. (I lost my bet re Orange
St. I've seen a few close ones there.)
It's fascinating to me that a subway car was stored in the old Cedar
Street station. The last time I was in that station (about '67), we
entered through Kresge's Department Store (R.I.P.), and there were
diesel buses coming through the tunnel! (I think Mr. Brennan mentions
this in his excellent Abandoned Subway Stations piece.)
BTW, I think Mr. Brennan points out that Cedar St. was not actually on
the No. 7 line. I know there's a spur between Penn Station and Broad
Street (where, on the inbound side, the snowplow car was always
parked). Is it this line that goes through Cedar Street, I wonder.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757140
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:46 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by Charlie Bonaire on July 29,
1997 at 18:39:03:
I think it is (was). The Cedar Street connection was the subway's
entry to the PS Terminal. When streetcar services vanished from
Newarks' streets, the connection was closed. I don't know how diesel
buses could have used the tunnel as it eneded (again, as far as I
know) in a loop under the Terminal. There was a surface connection,
but it vanished in the All-Service Days. Part of the cut-off tunnel
still exists (the "outbound"side , and is used for storage of the work
equipment. The destroyed car was an accident (Orange St.?) victim that
met its unfortunate end as explained above. It was stored in the
"inbound" lead.
Anyone else have any other explanations?
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757141
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:47 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by Dan Lawrence on July 29, 1997
at 22:30:26:
Dan, this is quite memory-prodding. You must also be a Newarker. I
remember that on the north side of Kresge's (Cedar St) was the
entrance for that spur line. On the south side of the store, along
Raymond Blvd., was the entrance for the No. 7 line. (Both entrances
were accessible from the main floor of Kresge's.) So it seems the two
lines ran parallel for a time, at least underground.
Re the spur line, my understanding was that it surfaced again not far
from Cedar St, rather than end in a loop. But I'm far from certain
about that. I do remember the buses in the tunnel quite vividly,
though.
I agree Cedar St station was also accessible directly from the Public
Service terminal via escalator, as was the No. 7 platform at Broad St.
(isn't there a closed-up passageway there?)
Regarding the crash, I called my brother this afternoon, whose memory
is better, and he recalls that someone did broadside a subway car at
Orange St in the 60s.
Not to beat this subject to death, but I'm grateful to have found some
folks who know something about it.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757144
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:49 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCC Cars posted by Charlie Bonaire on July 29,
1997 at 23:02:32:
I'm a life-long Baltimorean, with a fondness for PCC's and streetcar
operations in general. The Newark City Subway has (under NJT) become
the home of the best maintained PCC fleet in the country. (I have
heard the shopmen Simonize the cars when they don't have anything to
do.) When NJT replaces the 50 year old (impeccably maintained) PCC's,
betcha the LRV's that replace them won't last 50 years. Whoever gets
any of the PCC's will have a gem.
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars
- Message Number: 757146
- Posted by: William A. Padron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:51 1997
In Reply to: [6]PCC Cars posted by Frankr on July 27, 1997 at
09:22:13:
This list is simple to clarify the correct status of the PCC car fleet
operated by Port Authority Transit in Pittsburgh (as based upon
earlier messages posted by myself).
PCC's still active: 4007, 4008, 4009 [3 cars];
PCC under repairs: 4004 [1 car];
PCC assigned as a yard maintenance car: 4001 [1 car];
All others are out-of-service and/or dead storage with scrap pending;
Minimum required assigned to 47D Drake-Castle Shannon line: 1 car;
Maximum required assigned to 47D Drake-Castle Shannon line: 2 cars;
Vintage-1948/49 "museum" units: 2 cars -
1711 (Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, Washington, PA) and
1724 (Sen. John Heinz Pittsburgh Regional History Center, Pittsburgh,
PA);
Vintage-1930's/early 1940's "museum" units: 4 known cars -
1138, 1467 and 1799 [ex-1613] at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum and
1440 at Seashore Trolley Museum, Kennebunkport, Maine.
Sincerely,
William A. Padron
Thread title: Q and F trains - Connection being built? (757082)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:00 1997, by Paul J. Weiss
- Subject: Q and F trains - Connection being built?
- Message Number: 757082
- Posted by: Paul J. Weiss
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:00 1997
There is a huge amount of construction on Northern Blvd., 39 Ave and
31 St.
It would appear that the Q train from 21st Street Queensbridge is
being
connected to the E F N and G lines just East of Queens Plaza.
Does anyone know for sure what this project is about. What are the
final
route plans and estimated date of completion?
- Subject: Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built?
- Message Number: 757083
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:01 1997
In Reply to: [6]Q and F trains - Connection being built? posted by
Paul J. Weiss on July 27, 1997 at 12:49:46:
A connection is being built from the 21St. station to the Queens Blvd
line. THe project will be complete in the year 2000 or 2001. Im not
sure however what the plan is as far as what routing the TA will use
for this new connection.
- Subject: Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built?
- Message Number: 757084
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:02 1997
In Reply to: [6]Q and F trains - Connection being built? posted by
Paul J. Weiss on July 27, 1997 at 12:49:46:
The 21st St. connection is being built at that site. The projected
completion date is 2001. At that point, the Q train will be extended
to Continental Avenue and the R train to 179th St. BTW - the
construction site is referred to as north of Queens Plaza not east.
- Subject: Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built?
- Message Number: 757135
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:42 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built? posted by
Fernando Perez on July 27, 1997 at 13:11:00:
I heard from a TA source that once the Queens Blvd connection is
finished and the Manhattan Bridge/Cannal Street rehab is done the Q
will run Broadway Express through 63rd St tunnel to 179th.
But we are talking Arther C. Clarke 2010 I think
- Subject: Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built?
- Message Number: 757148
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Q and F trains - Connection being built? posted by
Lou on July 29, 1997 at 18:19:45:
Really, it's taking about 5 Years to build and complete and 250 feet
stretch of track that really wont be accomplishing a whole lot, and it
took 4 years to build the entire first portion of the IRT! Progress!
Thread title: Can Anyone tell me.... (757087)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:04 1997, by Jeff
- Subject: Can Anyone tell me....
- Message Number: 757087
- Posted by: Jeff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:04 1997
Where I can find old NYCTA maps? And when are those new subway cars
going to be in use? You can e-mail me for your responses.
- Subject: Re: Can Anyone tell me....
- Message Number: 757091
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:07 1997
In Reply to: [6]Can Anyone tell me.... posted by Jeff on July 27, 1997
at 18:02:07:
You can generally find old maps for sale at train memoribilia shows,
like Hoboken Festival or the upcoming Fall Trolley Extravaganza in
King of Prussia, PA.
As for "when the new cars will be in use", it's not like they are
sitting around in a yard doing nothing. No new cars have been
delivered yet and none are expected till late next year or 1999.
--Dave
p.s. one note about etiquette.. if you post here expect to find
replies here rather than in email.
Thread title: Do sitting cars get inspected (757089)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:06 1997, by Zack
- Subject: Do sitting cars get inspected
- Message Number: 757089
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:06 1997
do cars that are sitting around and out of service get inspected every
66 days??? or do they just sit and rot???
Thread title: Do out of service cars get inspected (757090)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:06 1997, by Zack
- Subject: Do out of service cars get inspected
- Message Number: 757090
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:06 1997
do cars that are sitting around and out of service get inspected every
66 days??? or do they just sit and rot???
- Subject: Re: Do out of service cars get inspected
- Message Number: 757093
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:09 1997
In Reply to: [5]Do out of service cars get inspected posted by Zack on
July 27, 1997 at 20:14:47:
If they are out of service, I don't see any reason for them to be
inspected. I'm sure that if they had to be put back in service for
whatever reason, they would be closely inspected beforehand.
Thread title: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service (757096)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:11 1997, by subway-buff
- Subject: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757096
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:11 1997
Today I went on a tour witht he Transit museum of the Manhattan and
Williamsburg Bridges. At the Willie B the engineer in charge said that
after the Brooklyn Bound Roadway rebuid is completed they will tear
down the Tracks from Essex ro Marcy and completely rebuild in 5
months. Her showed us where the already have some footings in place
for the new track structure which will still be in the present
location and same general alignment except they plan on reducing the
sharpness of the S curve at the Marcy Station approach.
Opinion: I have a feeling that the 5 months is overly
optomistic.(We'll see!)
I think this answers the question whether the J will be here in 2020 !
The bridge is being rebuilt to last another 100 years.
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757098
- Posted by: J passenger
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:13 1997
In Reply to: [5]williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by
subway-buff on July 27, 1997 at 22:27:03:
Wait a minute, so where will the J/M/Z trains go during the five
months?
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757105
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by J
passenger on July 28, 1997 at 02:10:17:
I do not know. I just thought you'd be happy that with a rebuild that
the J/Z is staying!
I have not yet foudn out what (in 1999) will happen to the trains
while the bridge tracks are closed.
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757134
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:41 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by
subway-buff on July 28, 1997 at 17:32:49:
As far as I know there is no other connection to the rest of the
subway system other the the Wille B?
The Archer extension even though two levels it is my understanding the
lines do not connect. What is going to happen if those cars need shop
service if this lasts for more than 5 months (Shall I say FDR 10
yeears?)
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757139
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:45 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by Lou
on July 29, 1997 at 18:14:01:
There are Track connections (with third rail ) and signals to the L
Line at Eastern Parkway. They could switch the cars to the L and use
the Livonia yard track . There is also a yard at Eastern Pakrway. I
don't know if they have any repair capability.
To anyone" Where do they service the L lines cars ?
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757143
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:48 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by
subway-buff on July 29, 1997 at 21:35:02:
Servicing will be no problem; Fresh Pond, remember? The question of
the usefullness of the Broadway route without a Manhattan connection
is much more problematic. I would predict a Bus shuttle from Marcy to
Essex. For a real top notch connection, they could clear out the old
Essex St. Trolley terminal, but I doubt they will.
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757150
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:54 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by
subway-buff on July 29, 1997 at 21:35:02:
The cars on the L, J/Z and M lines are serviced at the East NY yard on
Bushwick Ave in Brooklyn
- Subject: Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service
- Message Number: 757151
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:55 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: williamsburg Bridge Subway Service posted by Gary
Jacobi on July 30, 1997 at 12:08:19:
Fresh Pond, what? There are no repair facilities there.
Thread title: The NY subway & how popular it & its tokens REALLY are. (757101)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:15 1997, by Mark Greenwald
- Subject: The NY subway & how popular it & its tokens REALLY are.
- Message Number: 757101
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:15 1997
Imagine my surprise when I was reading our little rinky-dink hometown
newspaper on Saturday (7/26) and there was an article about the NY
subway slowly phasing out the token. It pictured a woman named Lynne
Lambert posing in fron of a subway car w/ the motorman looking out &
she's holding a handful of assorted subway tokens.
The thing that really surprised me is that I live in West Virginia
(from the Baltimore/ Washington area) and the newspaper is the
Cumberland Times/News located in Cumberland, Maryland and for those of
you who don't know where this is--it's in the mountains of EXTREME
western Maryland (about 30 mi. of Bedford, PA). Ususally what I read
about is a local youth falling off a mountain stone drunk or another
blue-collar factory shutting down. The last thing I expected was an
article on the tokens of the NY subway. I guess it just goes to show
how EVERYBODY in ALL walks of life identify the word "subway" with the
city of New York. For those of you who would like to see the article,
don't know if you access past articles but the times/news DOES have
its own web site. www.times-news.com
Thread title: rebuilding J/Z (757109)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:22 1997, by Zack
- Subject: rebuilding J/Z
- Message Number: 757109
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:22 1997
is the Ta going to rebulid the J/Z line???
- Subject: Re: rebuilding J/Z
- Message Number: 757133
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]rebuilding J/Z posted by Zack on July 28, 1997 at
20:56:29:
Yes- At least Essex Street to Marcy Ave. In 1999 the City will tear
down the tracks and EL from Essex to Marcy and * rebuild* in "5
months". Since the TA is putting ion new light up to and including E
Pkwy, I'ds say that at least to E pkwy it will be saved. Also, I think
the balance will be too! The last few Saturdays they've been
installing welded rail! I don't *think* they'd do that to tear it down
!
Thread title: Morgantown, WV PRT System (757113)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:25 1997, by NO TRANSIT
- Subject: Morgantown, WV PRT System
- Message Number: 757113
- Posted by: NO TRANSIT
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:25 1997
I need to know more about this and Personal Rapid Transit in general
- Subject: Re: Morgantown, WV PRT System
- Message Number: 757125
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:34 1997
In Reply to: [6]Morgantown, WV PRT System posted by NO TRANSIT on July
28, 1997 at 23:38:01:
1. why dont you like subways and buses???
2. in the transfer section of this website there is a link i beleve
for PRT
3. PRT is a good concept and it is PUBLIC TRANSIT, even the cars are
owned by municapalities and there fore it is PUBLIC TRANSIT.
- Subject: Re: Morgantown, WV PRT System
- Message Number: 757129
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:37 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Morgantown, WV PRT System posted by Zack on July
29, 1997 at 02:29:07:
I live about 1 hr. from Morgantown and have ridden the PRT--it's
pretty decent. It would be better if it was bigger & went to the
stadium for WVU games, but, who knows. As for the system, what do you
want to know. I recently sent Dave Pirmann (web site host) a copy of
the PRT track map which he posted in the "transit systems worldwide"
section. It should give you a little insight. If you have any specific
questions--don't hesitate to e-mail me personnally. I also know that
in the "transit links" section, there is a section devoted to the PRT
at Morgantown.
- Subject: Re: Morgantown, WV PRT System
- Message Number: 757155
- Posted by: NO TOPICS
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:58 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Morgantown, WV PRT System posted by Zack on July
29, 1997 at 02:29:07:
NO, my NO names are just taken from topics in my messages, you can see
that if you actually read the other messages.
Thread title: Out of service cars get inspected (757117)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:28 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Out of service cars get inspected
- Message Number: 757117
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:28 1997
In Reply to: [6]Do out of service cars get inspected posted by Zack on
July 27, 1997 at 20:14:47:
Out of service cars do get inspected. While the 66 day window may be
stretched, the AS400 computer system tracks every car by mileage and
by time between inspections. When a car is not inspected within either
the mileage window or the time window, it is 'flagged' by the
computer.
Even though a car may be out of service for an extended period of
time, it makes sense to continue to inspect it regularly. Though it is
not running in service, out of service cars may be moved often around
the yard. In addition, although not in service, the cars batteries and
air systems continue to operate and must be checked periodically.
There are exceptions to this, of course. Cars which are at the
overhaul shop for heavy repairs ( from collision or fire for example)
, would not be inspected.
Thread title: Re: PCC Cars...a brief note to consider (757153)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:57:56 1997, by William A. Padron
- Subject: Re: PCC Cars...a brief note to consider
- Message Number: 757153
- Posted by: William A. Padron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:57:56 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCC Cars posted by William A. Padron on July 30,
1997 at 16:35:53:
It should be noted that, according to a recent E-mail response from
the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum to myself, while Port Authority
Transit in Pittsburgh might list any current out-of-service PCC cars
as active, this may only be so on paper.
Some of the cars have not yet run out their alloted 10 year rehab
life, as said by PTM's reply, and thus PATransit must continue to
consider them as "alive" by government rules.
Sincerely,
William A. Padron
Thread title: Re: Are there ant R-30's left/just for NO fun (757160)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:01 1997, by Dan Lawrence
- Subject: Re: Are there ant R-30's left/just for NO fun
- Message Number: 757160
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:01 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Are there ant R-30's left posted by D.L. on July
31, 1997 at 21:25:12:
Since NO doesn't have any good writers, there's NO way we're every
gonna find out if there is NO real name. (and if NO has real writers,
maybe he should chain them up in the cellar and beat them until he
gets some real funny material.)
Thread title: Subway maps, New york City (757167)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:07 1997, by Sherman Cheung
- Subject: Subway maps, New york City
- Message Number: 757167
- Posted by: Sherman Cheung
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:07 1997
I have been collecting Subway Maps for 14 years, now I can't get the
Traditional Maps anymore, because MTA are catering to the immigrants
I have checked the "Racks" but I come up with multiligual maps.
does anybody know where I can get Shitloads of the good stuff?
- Subject: Re: Subway maps, New york City
- Message Number: 757175
- Posted by: Allan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]Subway maps, New york City posted by Sherman Cheung on
August 02, 1997 at 13:37:40:
Try the Visitors Bureau in Times Square (between 7th and 8th Avs) in
an old movie theater. They have the latest "RED" edition (the one with
the routes on the back. I call it RED because of the red box on the
front. The Multilingual has a blue box on the front).
Thread title: It Must Be "Fun"... (was Re: work trains) (757176)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:15 1997, by Julio Perez
- Subject: It Must Be "Fun"... (was Re: work trains)
- Message Number: 757176
- Posted by: Julio Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:15 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: work trains posted by Bill on August 02, 1997 at
16:22:12:
It must be fun to carry CWR on some IRT routes with sharp curves, say
the ones between Queensboro Plaza and Hunters Point Boulevard on the
7. All those rails sliding and bending away, becoming slightly
disfigured before arriving their final destination (whereever it may
be)...
- Subject: Re: It Must Be "Fun"... (was Re: work trains)
- Message Number: 757191
- Posted by: Bill
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]It Must Be "Fun"... (was Re: work trains) posted by
Julio Perez on August 04, 1997 at 09:10:47:
On the train are a number of racks that guide the rails thru the
train. The racks keep the rails from shifting and they are secured so
they don't slide. Going around curves the rails do bend they are very
felxable, when they come off they are as straight as they went on.
Thread title: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (757177)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:15 1997, by Ray
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757177
- Posted by: Ray
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:15 1997
In Reply to: [5]Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted by
Bill Ruiz on August 03, 1997 at 19:30:39:
Electric trolley service would be very expensive to install and
maintain. Buses offer much more in route flexibility. Natural-gas
buses pollute less, but require more complex equipment. I believe the
TA is only using them on some Brooklyn routes served by the 36 Street
depot.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757200
- Posted by: Mike LoCascio
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:33 1997
In Reply to: [6]Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted by
Bill Ruiz on August 03, 1997 at 19:30:39:
You are either a fan of troleys or a foe. Yes they would be slower
than a bus and very restrictive, however, there are locations in
Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island that they would be very
useful and enviromently friendly. There are areas that are depressed
and longing for a shot in the arm to help bring the neighborhood back
(Rockaway and Coney Island areas). Trolleys would be that "shot in the
arm" not only bringing a new mode of clean transportation to the areas
but a local tourist attraction for new Yorkers as well as persons
visiting New York.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757220
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:48 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Mike LoCascio on August 05, 1997 at 21:54:55:
Yes, I am a true fan of trolleys and trolleybuses. No, I do not think
that the two are slow either. Yes, trolleys are somewhat restrictive
due their rails but they can be located just about anywhere you would
want them to be, for example in the street with cars or on a separate
right-of-way configuration. I do agree with you fully that possibly a
"historic streetcar service" would be a positive idea for Coney Island
and the Rockaways. I strongly feel as well that New Yorkers must push
for clean and efficient modes of transport from their public
officials. I don't feel it was in our best interest that they went and
spent more money on diesel buses that are now used across the city
streets. They should be moving in the same direction as the officials
in northern NJ are doing by looking at alternatives.
I really would like to be breathing clean air in NYC someday.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757238
- Posted by: Viola Schwartz
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted by
Bill Ruiz on August 03, 1997 at 19:30:39:
But if we had trolleys, I couldn't cross Ocean Avenue without tripping
on the tracks. I have to go to the butcher. If I don't go, who's going
to make Murray dinner? The NYCTA? I don't need trolleys. I can just
walk to the deli for chicken cutlets. I mean, I can't even get a glass
of water to take a pill with on the bus. How would that work on a
trolley?? Would I stll get my senior citizen's discount? ANd what
aboput those dangerous over head wires? What if, God forbid, I have a
fire and have to use the fire escape? Won't I get tangled up in the
wires? And does the trolley go to my Internist's office? Or do I gotta
knock myself out walking 10 blocks just like now? Trolleys? Who needs
them. Better we should use the money for finding the cure for this
pain in my left side. It's gonna kill me yet.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757242
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:06 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Viola Schwartz on August 10, 1997 at 16:48:21:
Several reasons why streetcars are better than buses:
1. They ride better (No bouncing in and out of storm drains)
2. Less noise (Modern streetcars are almost silent. Can't say that
about a bus)
3. They are cleaner. (No clouds of black soot from the tailpipe)
4. AND... They don't pollute!!!!!
As to tripping on the tracks, have you crossed a New York street
lately?
You can trip right over the potholes. Never mind the rails.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757271
- Posted by: Michael LoCascio
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:30 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Dan Lawrence on August 11, 1997 at 08:29:40:
Your 100% right! I have tried to cross streets and I not only trip on
all the divots and holes, but I slip on "dog doo."
One other thing following up on your abservations on the reason why
trolleys are better, the last a lot longer. Some of Philly's PCCs are
still in service after decades of use ( now alive and well in San
Francisco), can you say that about a bus. It might be a little more
expensive to buy but the retun in a lot better
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757282
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:39 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Dan Lawrence on August 11, 1997 at 08:29:40:
Dan Lawrence writes:
> 4. AND... They don't pollute!!!!!
Where do you think the electricity to run them comes from? From the
same trees which grow the money for all sorts of fanciful transit
schemes we all love to propose?
It is more correct to say they potentially polute less per passenger
carried.
Andy
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757283
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Mike LoCascio on August 05, 1997 at 21:54:55:
Mike LoCascio writes:
> There are areas that are depressed and longing for a shot in the
> arm to help bring the neighborhood back (Rockaway and Coney Island
> areas). Trolleys would be that "shot in the arm" not only bringing a
new
> mode of clean transportation to the areas but a local tourist
> attraction for new Yorkers as well as persons visiting New York.
From my understanding of obtaining scarce transit dollars, tourist
attraction doesn't cut it. This is about the most ridiculous reason I
have heard for investing tens of millions of dollars into trolleys.
Trolleys make sense on heavily patronized bus routes, and on routes
where significant private right of way exists. You might note that new
trolley lines in other cities are not built as tourist attractions,
but as the backbone of these small cities transit systems.
For a good example of sensible trolley use, in Philadelphia, the
subway surface lines are all heavily patronized, and run half their
distanc in a trolley tunnle under Market St. and Woodland Ave. The
surface lines (now temporarily bused), are among the busiest as well.
In fact, the number 23 was the busiest route in the system besides the
two subway lines (it caries 30,000 patrons per day). The proposals in
Philadelphia for additional service mainly concern additional
crosstown capacity on a busy route - the 60, which was formerly
trolley until the unfortunate carbarn fie some two decades ago, which
destroyed much of the fleet.
In New York, trolleys serve a theoretical purpose in being able to go
where a Subway cannot or is not practical. Otherwise, simply given the
extent of the system, a subway makes infinitely more sense. This being
the case, trolleys would make sense only in Staten Island and outer
Queens. I doubt they'd do anything for the Rockaways which the subway
has not been able to accomplish. Ditto for Coney Island.
Andy
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757286
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:42 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Andrew Byler on August 12, 1997 at 23:02:03:
Thanks to Joe Testagrose we have photos of the carbarn fire which you
mention. [7]Historical Philadelphia Pictures
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757288
- Posted by: Pops
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:44 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Viola Schwartz on August 10, 1997 at 16:48:21:
Viola is right! As a young man I lived in Brooklyn and used trolleys
frequently (no one had autos in the early 1920's) . Anyone who really
used trolleys will remember that they weren't so great. They had
uncomfortable seats, the straw would stick you right in the damn
heiney (excuse language). The motorman were surly and would spit gobs
of who-knows-what out the window. Many of the passengers smelled like
swine and would drool on their transfers, a health hazard I'd say!
Buses were an improvement, they could go anywhere and you didn't have
to worry about those wires electrocuting you in a rainstorm.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757300
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:54 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Andrew Byler on August 12, 1997 at 22:48:20:
O.K. , I yield. Actually the pollution is less and can be concentrated
away from an urban area. As an aside, in the Greater Baltimore are
almost 45% of electric power is generated by burning trash.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757335
- Posted by: Michael LoCascio
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:24 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Pops on August 13, 1997 at 09:45:31:
Dear Pop,
Yes you are right about the bad things you mentioned. However, today
thing I think are a little better. Most people shower at least once in
a while. Back in the 20's, bathtubs were in the kitchen and people had
to receive a letter from the Board of Health telling them to take one.
Conductors then were allowed to "chaw" on tobacco and even smoke a
cigar, thats is not the norm today. Trollys of "yesteryear" were not
airconditioned as they wold be today. I feel, attitudes have change
for the better. Some people would argue that "times were better" but
were they, really? Think about that...that is another story and area.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757336
- Posted by: Michael LoCascio
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:26 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Andrew Byler on August 12, 1997 at 23:02:03:
Andy,
You make a lot of sense talking about the large sums of money it would
cost to reinsitute Trolleys. but, why assume that these projects have
to be controlled or brought about by the government. There are people
who would argue that "Private Industry" is the way to go here; I am
one of them. Once, many years ago, Public Transportation was first
formulated by "Private Industry" ( NYC IRT and BRT later BMT).
I do not agree that they would not stimulate depressed areas, look at
Memphis. By the way, Rockaway is part of the far reaches of Queens.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757341
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:13 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Pops on August 13, 1997 at 09:45:31:
I am sorry you feel so negatively about trolleys. I guess you have
never been on the newer versions of "light rail vehicles." There are
plently of them in major cities across Europe and in North America to
name a few. I guess the trolleys you rode were similar to the subways
I use to ride as a teenager in the '70's with all the dirt and
graffiti.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757342
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:14 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Dan Lawrence on August 11, 1997 at 08:29:40:
Yes, trolleys are better overall, but I guess we won't see them any
time soon in Manhatten. Although I believe they would be better suited
for the outer boroughs. We as New Yorkers deserve to breathe cleaner
air.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757343
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:14 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Michael LoCascio on August 12, 1997 at 14:33:46:
Yes, diesel buses do not last long at all. Reason being they use a
diesel engine which probably does not have a long life span. Trolleys
and trolley buses both use electrical components for their propulsion
systems. They don't wear out as easily as components used in "fossil
fueled" engines.
I know that there is a report that proves this to be true but at the
moment I can't remember where I read it.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757362
- Posted by: Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:29 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Pops on August 13, 1997 at 09:45:31:
I don't know if a warning is in line here Dave, but it seems clear to
me that the messages of both "Viola Shwartz" and "Pops" are phonies.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
- Message Number: 757426
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:18 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC posted
by Michael LoCascio on August 15, 1997 at 18:14:02:
Mike,
I'm in complete agreement with you about private industry, and am a
big fan of Paul Weyrich's "New Electric Railway Journal" in that
regard. However, there are a few problems with this. Cost is not the
major issue as regards private construction and operation. The major
construction concern is government approval through permits and
utility movements. The overall major concern is profitability, which
is impossibl as long as cars do not pay for the streets. While many
people are under a delusion that the federal and state gas taxes pay
for all roads, we all know this is not true. Roads are subsidized
enormously each year at the local level, where most spending goes on.
Certainly the interstates and US highways are paid for through the gas
tax, but not much else is. As very few of us live on I 95 or US 1, I
think we all know the vital role of local streets. Further activites
like patrols by the state police and snow plowing are not paid for
from the trust funds. For this to happen, I think the gas tax would
have to jump to over $3 or $4 per gallon (European price levels). And
were this to happen, and were railways again granted easy eminent
domain powers, I think a network of electric railways would blossom
again, just as the interurbans and trolleys did before the 20's and
30's when highway subsudies began in earnest (private rural toll roads
died out around this time).
Obviusly, this is not going to be the case for a long time, as this
nation is addicted to its cars. Until then, we transit advocates must
put up with competing at the public trough, and our best argument is
that our projects would serve many people. If you're looking for good
improvements to make in New York, I'd suggest returning to the new
routes plan, extending electrification on the Long Island and Metro
North, and building more tunnels under the East and Hudson rivers to
hit Penn Station and Grand Central.
As to the Rockaways - I'd suggest that the problem is the people, not
the area. This could be a first class shore area, but it is not. The
far west end of the Rockaways, beyond the reach of the Subway, is
actually quite nice. The rest could be like this if New York did not
have such horrendous building codes and legislation, and high property
tax rates. Considering the clamor for beach homes on Long Island and
New Jersey, there really is no excuse for the Rockaways to be like
they are. Hell, if someone would be willing to get some construction
waivers and get the property taxes discounted, I am sure a few private
consortiums would clamor to sell beach homes to those who want them.
Andy
Thread title: Re: The Staten Island Handover!! (a political aside) (757178)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:16 1997, by Dan
- Subject: Re: The Staten Island Handover!! (a political aside)
- Message Number: 757178
- Posted by: Dan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:16 1997
In Reply to: [6]The Staten Island Handover!! posted by John on July
29, 1997 at 02:25:17:
We Staten Islanders voted overwhelmingly to secede from NYC (this is
called democracy). The issue is being held up by Sheldon Silver in the
NY State Assembly (this is called contempt for democracy) by his
requirement of a 'home rule' message from the NYC Council.
Staten Island is very different from the rest of NYC. It is comprised
of mostly one-family homes, everyone owns at least one car, and the
crime rate was low even before Rudy was mayor. I would think that the
city council would be more than happy to give the home rule message,
given that Staten island is a conservative Republican borough in a
generally liberal Democratic city. It is basically a dead issue for
now, but expect it to heat up again after the mayoral election.
Because if, as most polls indicate, Rudy Giuliani wins a second term,
it will have to be his last as per the new city charter. It is very
doubtful that subsequent mayors will be as positive to SI as Rudy has
been.
But back to the transit issue - if SI ever does secede, it would be as
a city within New York. So most likely the MTA would operate the
buses, the SIR, and the cash-cow Verazzano-Narrows Bridge.
Thread title: health and safety (757179)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:17 1997, by susan r.n
- Subject: health and safety
- Message Number: 757179
- Posted by: susan r.n
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:17 1997
As I have discussed before prevention of tuberculosis has been ignored
in station and car design. The design contracts should be re-let
because tiles must be as large as possible to minimize grout area and
the surfaces can only be white. This was standard TB protocol in the
1920's. The grout areas should be minimized and non-porous (synthetic
epoxy grout). The use of ultraviolet light is mandatory and should be
used to decontaminate walls by running a special subway car of flats
equipped with ultraviolet light moving at low speed every night
through the system, especially exposing the roadbed. Center for
disease control protocols have been ignored in the design for new air
conditioned stations makiing the transit authority liable for millions
in civol damages. It's called the doctrine of the reasonable and
prudent man. I am interested in TA comment.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757181
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]health and safety posted by susan r.n on August 04,
1997 at 15:12:44:
Your TB crusade will probably not draw much official attention from
the MTA here. Officially, they ignore this web site. Unofficially you
aren't going to get anyone who can comment on the record.
Your efforts might be better directed to the MTA directly:
Metropolitan Transportation Authority
Office of the Chairman
347 Madison Avenue
New York, New York 10017
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757183
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:20 1997
In Reply to: [6]health and safety posted by susan r.n on August 04,
1997 at 15:12:44:
If I'm not mistaken, the rate of tuberculosis has declined sharply in
New York (and possibly nationwide) since hitting a peak in the early
1990s - and even that peak was well below the rates in the early parts
of the century. In that subway station design hasn't changed, it seems
to me that subways are a very minor factor in the spread of the
disease. Come to think of it, wasn't AIDS the main factor?
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757187
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:23 1997
In Reply to: [6]health and safety posted by susan r.n on August 04,
1997 at 15:12:44:
Health and safety are very important public issues but the TA has been
no less responsible than other major sectors of society. New buildings
are virtually air tight to reduce HVAC costs but are breeding gorunds
for all sorts of diseases. They even have a name for it, "Sick
Building syndrome".
Then there is the airline industry. The new generation of Jetliners,
the 757, 767 and 777 take in virtually no outside air to conserve
fuel. They are also breeding grounds for all sorts of things.
By contrast, subway cars take in a minimum of 25% outside air, even
withthe windows closed. Sadly the tunnel air is poor but the trains
are not always in the tunnels. Slow moving trains with huge
ultra-violet light sources is an interesting concept, however. Perhaps
it does merit consideration but not until the vacuum trains and tunnel
wash trains can maintain basic sanitation in the system.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757197
- Posted by: susan R.N.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:31 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: health and safety posted by David Pirmann on
August 04, 1997 at 15:57:19:
Thanks everyone for the comments. Center for disease control (CDC) in
Atlanta suggests air replacement and movement to be significant in
reducing incidences of T.B. These are federally mandated requirements
and will be ignored at the legal risk of the transit authority. Do not
pass go. Do not collect two hundred dollars. The horror of
tuberculosis cannot be underestimated. It is not only a long disease
but can cause paralysis, brain damage, and it highly contagious. Read
my lips. This will be number one problem in the next ten years in the
subway and may the transit officials who ignore this burn in hell for
the pain and suffering they will cause. I suggest a search of the
MEDLINE data base for anyone interested in further information.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757198
- Posted by: tom
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:31 1997
In Reply to: [5]health and safety posted by susan r.n on August 04,
1997 at 15:12:44:
The invention of linoleum was one of the biggest factors in
eliminating tuberculosis in hospitals because it offered a non-porous
surface. TB is indeed the major health problem facing the transit
authority. The ideal surface flooring would be aluminum diamond plate,
because aluminum, curiously enough is highly reflective of the
ultraviolet light waves and may be most easily decontaminated with
ultraviolet light. A single homeless person with multi-drug resistant
TB can infect thousands. The plan to air condition the midtown
stations was developed without any consideration for deontamination of
air. Ultraviolet light, within certain wavelengths has been
demonstrated to kill this lethal organism. Kepping down dust is
another factor. TB control should the number one transit priority.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757204
- Posted by: george
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:36 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: health and safety posted by Steve on August 04,
1997 at 19:42:37:
Excellent point. Sunlight sterilizes, but yard design puts the cars
too close to optimize this effect. Cars need to be further appart so
they can be hit by the sun. This should be taken into consideration in
track design. Ultraviolet "wash points" should be erected at yard
throats. Glass stops ultraviolet and will protect the motorman.
Biggest problem is rodents in the subway. TB is trans species.
Infected rats will leave droppings which will turn to dust and spread
death. Priority must be given to rodent eradication. Ultraviolet
sterilizers on wheels could roll over subway platforms after washings.
This is routinely done in some hospitals. Air exchange is the big
thing. Fresh air and lots of it.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757205
- Posted by: allen
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:37 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: health and safety posted by Peter Rosa on August
04, 1997 at 16:32:49:
While the TB rate has declined slightly nationally this is deceiving.
The disease is incurable in the new form and may onloy be kept under
control with a lifetime of medications with extreme side effects. It
is extremely communicable, and the fact many with HIV have TB (which,
in fairness is generally kept under control - it only becomes
dangerous when medications are not taken) this is a political hot
potato. NYC Board of health is a hotbed of gay activism and refuses to
publicize any information which reflects on the dangerous of HIV and
the necessity of nationwide testing and tracking of the HIV positive,
which is the only common sense thing to do. TB is surely the one most
significant problem facing NYC public transit.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757207
- Posted by: susan R.N.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]health and safety posted by susan r.n on August 04,
1997 at 15:12:44:
Dear site administrator. You won't be bothered again. The information
is not unsubstantiated. I suggested a MEDLINE search as well as a
common news article search. I have over three hundred documents
obtained at the Columbia medical library regarding the hazards of TB.
Telephone the LA Medical examiner. Every employee is infected. I
apologize for caring about human life and bothering people whose only
interest is collecting subway transfers and themselves. I don't know
what you guys are about but it certainly isn't life on this planet.
Good-bye.
- Subject: Re: health and safety
- Message Number: 757211
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:41 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: health and safety posted by george on August 06,
1997 at 12:13:43:
For that to be carried out it would cost MONEY MONEY witch could be
better invested in to Service and station rehab
Thread title: sneakers and NYC transit (757180)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:18 1997, by j brown
- Subject: sneakers and NYC transit
- Message Number: 757180
- Posted by: j brown
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:18 1997
I have been told that sneakers (tennis shoes) became popular during a
NYC transit strike, due to the long distances people had to walk. Does
anyone have information on this subject; or, knowledge of a resource
where I could find an image of people wearing sneakers to work during
this strike.
Unfortunately, I do not know which strike it is.
- Subject: Re: sneakers and NYC transit
- Message Number: 757182
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:19 1997
In Reply to: [5]sneakers and NYC transit posted by j brown on August
04, 1997 at 15:37:18:
The trendy practice of wearing sneakers to and from work, but changing
into heels at the office allegedly began during a New York Subway
strike. Unlike most fads, it made sense, and working women all over
the US continue to follow the practice.
- Subject: Re: sneakers and NYC transit
- Message Number: 757185
- Posted by: Charles Fiori
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:22 1997
In Reply to: [5]sneakers and NYC transit posted by j brown on August
04, 1997 at 15:37:18:
The strike being referenced was the one which lasted from April 1-11,
1980. At the time, I lived on Roosevelt Island and worked for the TA
at Jay Street. The only way to get there was to take the Tramway over
to 59th & 2d, hop a cab down to the Brooklyn Bridge and walk over.
Going home, I walked back over the Bridge, over to the WTC, and then
took a special PATH train which they ran from WTC to 33rd Street. From
there, I walked back to 59th & 2d to board the Tramway. Lots of
walking and yes, I do believe, the Transit strike was the genesis of
people, principally women, ditching their dress shoes when forced to
do all that walking, and donning sneakers (not cross-trainers, or
running shoes).
Thread title: New Combination Subway/Bus Maps (757186)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:22 1997, by Allan
- Subject: New Combination Subway/Bus Maps
- Message Number: 757186
- Posted by: Allan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:22 1997
Combined Subway and Bus Map
NYCT has issued a new map called:
Manhattan By Subway And Bus
Visitor's Map
This issue places the Subway map (covering Manhattan
from 133rd St down to South Ferry) and the Bus Map
(covering the same area) side by side.
The appearance of the Subway portion has been modified
from the regular map:
1) The route indicators which are usually shown as
circles along the route line are now shown a "bumps"
on the lines for the routes.
2) Where Express and Local Routes exist (eg. A, B, C,
D) there is a separate line for the Expresses and a
separate line for the Locals.
3) A "X" marker has been placed in the small circle
by certain station names. These indicate that these
are "Divided Stations. Separate Street entrances for
each train direction. If you are on the train, you
cannot reverse direction at this station."
For those stations where this is not a restriction
there is just a circle.
4) The Subway lines are shown on a street grid rather
than a generic street map so that the stations are
found more easily.
5) The captions under each station name (indicating
which routes stop there) are not on the combined map.
The Bus map portion does not look any different from
the regular bus map.
The back of the map gives brief descriptions of the
Subway lines and Bus line that run in Manhattan. It
also has a big section of places to visit. There is a
section giving basic travel information for Subway &
Bus.
There are 2 advertisements on the back as well:
Lincoln Center Out of Doors
Mostly Mozart
By all indications on some of the narrative on the
map, this new map is NOT intended to replace the
exisiting Subway and borough Bus maps. But I do wonder
if they plan to use the Subway map format on this map
on future Subway Maps.
I have found these in one place - The Transit Museum Gift shop in
Grand Central (check the transit information brochure display)
Thread title: A CLOSE CALL!! (757188)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:24 1997, by Nick
- Subject: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757188
- Posted by: Nick
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:24 1997
Hats off to the FBI for catching the terrorists who had planned to
bomb the subway station! It's great to know that in this world of
tradegy, happy endings are found once in awhile! And even better, a
happy ending that involves NYC subways!
- Subject: Re: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757189
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:25 1997
In Reply to: [6]A CLOSE CALL!! posted by Nick on August 04, 1997 at
20:08:05:
Yes it was a very close call for us but it was not the FBI that
stopped it. It was the Emergency Services Unit of the NYPD that
stopped the plot. Hats off to the NYPD for their bravery and for
showing the world how it's done.
- Subject: Re: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757190
- Posted by: Andrew Huie
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:25 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: A CLOSE CALL!! posted by Steve on August 04, 1997
at 22:42:38:
Also, thank goodness at least one of them had enough of a conscience
to call the police! If not for that, the bombers would have stood a
good chance of killing someone!
- Subject: Re: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757192
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:27 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: A CLOSE CALL!! posted by Andrew Huie on August 05,
1997 at 00:26:19:
What station was it that they found the bomb materials in?, And, was
this the station(s) that they were planning on bombing?
- Subject: Re: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757194
- Posted by: Willie
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:29 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: A CLOSE CALL!! posted by Mark Greenwald on August
05, 1997 at 11:47:02:
It was found in a building on 4th Ave., above the Union Street station
on the N & R line. The station they were planning to do in was Pacific
St. and or the LIRR station at Flatbush Ave. one stop away.
- Subject: Re: A CLOSE CALL!!
- Message Number: 757307
- Posted by: Nick
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:59 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: A CLOSE CALL!! posted by Willie on August 05, 1997
at 13:01:46:
How could I forget! The NYPD and EMS did a fantastic job too!
Thread title: Re: OPTO Train (Conductor's Perch) (757195)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:29 1997, by Ed Sachs
- Subject: Re: OPTO Train (Conductor's Perch)
- Message Number: 757195
- Posted by: Ed Sachs
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:29 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: OPTO Train = 1st Subway Death This Year posted by
Gary Jacobi on August 04, 1997 at 16:40:43:
The first R series car's with the conductor's station moved from
perching
between cars to the inside (in a cab) were the R-15 series (ACF,
1950).
- Subject: Re: OPTO Train (Conductor's Perch)
- Message Number: 757199
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:32 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: OPTO Train (Conductor's Perch) posted by Ed Sachs
on August 05, 1997 at 13:17:33:
Thanks, Ed, I guess I spent most of the fifties riding R-10's and
thought there was no other way of opening doors on the IND. I do
remember the neat relatively weatherproof conductors operating
locations on BMT Standards.
Thread title: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train (757201)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:34 1997, by Yonjoo Lee
- Subject: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
- Message Number: 757201
- Posted by: Yonjoo Lee
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:34 1997
I am working for Hanjin Heavy Industries Co., Ltd. Hanjin is building
the subway train which will run in Seoul 7th and 8th subway line. The
request of my government is that the difference between inside and
outside noise level should be greater than 28 dB and the inside noise
level should be less than 85 dB(A).
Therefore, I am looking for a train having the 28 dB difference
between inside and outside noise level.
Please let me know the noise characteristics of cabin inside noise and
of tunnel inside noise when the train runs with 80 km/h.
- Subject: Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
- Message Number: 757202
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
posted by Yonjoo Lee on August 05, 1997 at 23:13:20:
During sound level testing which is mandated by the FRA, the Long
Island Rail Road M-3 cars were measured at 85 db at about 70 MPH. I do
not know what the inside reading was but that info is available from
the LIRR or the FRA in Washington, DC
- Subject: Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
- Message Number: 757212
- Posted by: Philip Nah Nah!!! I'm 100 base T and you're NOT!!!
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:42 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway
train posted by Steve on August 06, 1997 at 01:43:13:
Hmm... I always thought those FRA stickers said 80 mph, not 70...
The test was (I believe) conducted as a pass by through Woodside. They
certainly are loud at speed (outside), although inside the big noise
maker is that %$$#@^%$#^%$ vent system on the M - 1/2/3/4/6. Is it me,
or does anyone else find that hairdryer pitched blower setup
annoying??? When it is dead (not often), the M-3's are really quiet
inside, altough at high speed the traction motors do whine (watch out
the front window between Jamaica and Woodside and listen......)
- Subject: Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
- Message Number: 757218
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:47 1997
In Reply to: [5]Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
posted by Yonjoo Lee on August 05, 1997 at 23:13:20:
I am confused by the noise specs you quoted. If Seoul wants a quiet
passenger cabin, they can spec an interior noise level, or specify an
attenuation by the car body, which I believe is the -28db you quote.
By specifying both they d seem to be requiring the outside noise to be
28db plus 85db, and why would they want that? Did you mean to say 85db
exterior, and -28db interior? This makes more sense, but will require
more than typical sound proofing, as -28db is a lot to ask of a metal
enclosure with windows!
- Subject: Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway train
- Message Number: 757400
- Posted by: John
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:58 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Cabin inside and outside noise level of subway
train posted by Philip Nah Nah!!! I'm 100 base T and you're NOT!!!
Nasadowski on August 07, 1997 at 12:25:38:
Not only are the air conditioners noisy, but at times, the turn the
car into a meat freezer, kind of like the R-40s when they first came
out.
Thread title: Re: health and safety -- ENOUGH (757206)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:38 1997, by David Pirmann - Web Site Host
- Subject: Re: health and safety -- ENOUGH
- Message Number: 757206
- Posted by: David Pirmann - Web Site Host
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:38 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: health and safety posted by allen on August 06,
1997 at 13:09:08:
George, Allen, Tom, Susan whatever your name is...
Please take your crusade elsewhere. There is no need to continue to
post the same unsubstantiated information under different names. If
you want to post again how about listing some specific published
references? Otherwise please consider this thread closed.
--Dave
Thread title: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation ) (757208)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:39 1997, by Ted
- Subject: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757208
- Posted by: Ted
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:39 1997
Does anyone know where I could obtain photos of subway cars that
are currently in service ( such as R-68s , R-36s , etc. ) I looked in
the transit museum shop today , but didn't find anything.
thanks.
- Subject: Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757209
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
posted by Ted on August 06, 1997 at 16:29:41:
You mean physical photos on paper? Well there's one good book - New
York City Subway Cars - by James Clifford Greller. That's *the* source
for color photos of subway cars.
We've got lots and lots of pictures here. Check out the car rosters at
[7]http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/. If you've got a nice color printer
you could print them out..
Other places to try are railroad memoribilia shows like the upcoming
Fall Trolley (and Traction) Extravaganza in King Of Prussia PA
(weekend after Labor Day in September IIRC). You can typically get
photos and slides at shows like that from $0.50 on up depending on
age, quality, and how many generations of reproduction the image has
gone thru.
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757231
- Posted by: William A. Padron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:57 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
posted by David Pirmann on August 06, 1997 at 17:28:23:
If you wish to purchase any slides or photographs of NYC subway cars
in current operation, your best bet is to attend a meeting of one of
the two New York-based railfan organizations that regularly hold
monthly meetings: the Urban Transit Club (on the second Saturday of
the month usually at the Masonic Hall at 71 West 23rd Street in
Manhattan) and the New York Division of the Electric Railroaders'
Association (on the third Friday of the month at the College of
Insurance at 101 Murray Street in Manhattan).
At these organizations, you will find vendors usually selling great
color slides as low as 50 cents each or large 8x10 prints for at least
$2.50 each, plus other transit memorabilia such as books and other
goodies are also offered for sale as well. If you are a non-member,
the entrance door fee to attend inside the meeting room is $5.00.
Also, the upcoming New Jersey Rail Expo show to be held at the former
C.N.J. Terminal Building at Liberty State Park will be on Sunday,
October 26, 1997 between the hours of 9:00am and 5:00pm. At this real
railfan extravaganza is where you can find a very large assortment of
photos, slides, books, signs and other items for sale usually at great
prices. The admission price is $6.00.
Coming soon to a bookstore or rail hobby shop near you: the book "New
York Transit Memories" written by Harold A. Smith and published by
Quadrant Press (suggested retail price is at $16.95), and the "New
York City Subways 1998 Calendar" produced by Newkirk Images and
published by Weekend Chief Publishing (it was being quickly sold at
Penn Books on the L.I.R.R. level of Penn Station for $10.95).
In the "New York City Subways 1998 Calendar", there are great views
found here such as IND R-1/9's at Smith-9th Street, BMT R-11's on the
Franklin Shuttle, IRT "Flivver" cars on the Polo Grounds Shuttle, IRT
*brand new* red R-29's at 125th Street-Broadway, and IND aqua
blue/white R-10's at 88th Street-Boyd Avenue on the "A" line. This is
definitely one item you should not be without, and it truly gets my
upmost personal endorsement to buy it (I already own two copies of it
already)!!!
Sincerely,
William A. Padron
- Subject: Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757236
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:01 1997
In Reply to: [6]Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
posted by Ted on August 06, 1997 at 16:29:41:
You mjght try the book:
New York City Subway Cars
by James Clifford Greller
The book does not show a publisher but he also wrote a folow up book
Subway Cars of the BMT which shows "Xplorer Press" as publisher.
The ISBN for this is 0-9645765-1-1
I got the first book at the SEPTA Transit Musuem Store but I also saw
it in the NYC Subway Musuem Store (Main Store) and at NJ Transit's Try
Transit Festival in May 1997 which is where I got the second book.
The first book shows all cars from the first car bought for the IRT to
the 134 work trains. The second shows all BMT cars from the Malbone
Street models to the AB Standards and the Green Hornet and Zephyr.
While I have not seen it and I do not know. I *guess* that a third
book on the IRT cars is in the works or is out.
If anyone has info on this "third" book let me know.
Thread title: Re: health and safety-SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!! (757210)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:41 1997, by Zack
- Subject: Re: health and safety-SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Message Number: 757210
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:41 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: health and safety posted by susan R.N. on August
05, 1997 at 16:40:54:
This board is about Subays and Buses Not Medicine or Medical practices
now when it happens then it might be approparite for this board but it
hasent happend and i sugges to MR. Phirmann (hope i spelled it
correctley) ro remove thes posts from the board and replace it with
some subway question
Thread title: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn (757213)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:43 1997, by pete delgado
- Subject: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn
- Message Number: 757213
- Posted by: pete delgado
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:43 1997
does anyone know where to obtain a history or photos other than those
found in the book "Brooklyn Elevated".
Thank you,
Pete
- Subject: Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn
- Message Number: 757217
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:46 1997
In Reply to: [5]3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn posted by pete delgado on
August 07, 1997 at 17:09:49:
I realize this vague information will not be too helpful, but it might
send you in a direction you would not have thought of. The "original"
brooklyn-queens expressway was built right on top of the third avenue
el. When it was rebuilt in 1964 all traces of this quick and dirty
solution were ob literated.However, I distinctly recall an illustrated
report covering the original construction which concentrated on this
stretch, especially the micky-mouse interchanges which up the side
streets. The tone of the report was anti-highway, if that is any help.
- Subject: Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn
- Message Number: 757223
- Posted by: Frank Gatazka
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:51 1997
In Reply to: [6]3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn posted by pete delgado on
August 07, 1997 at 17:09:49:
The Electric Railroaders Association (ERA) published a booket entitled
"Tracks of New York" that contains information about the Third Avenue
El as well as other Brooklyn Els. Unfortunately, it is long out of
print, and originals are rather expensive when they show up at train
shows etc. (my copy cost $35). Arnold B. Joseph, 1140 Broadway, Room
701, (212)532-0019 may have photocopies of this booklet for a
reasonable price. There are two other volumes available also in this
series, on the Third Avenue El (Manhatten) and the Third Avenue
Railway (trolleys).
- Subject: Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn
- Message Number: 757272
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:31 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn posted by Gary Jacobi on
August 08, 1997 at 13:09:06:
The Third Av. el in Brooklyn was little more than a shuttle extending
the Fifth Av. service to approximately where the Sea Beach Line ties
into the Fourth Av. Subway today. Most Fifth Av. service was focused
on filling headways on the Culver and West End lines, and ran north of
36th St. only. A lot of subway service on those routes was cut back to
9th Av. during rush hours due to equipment shortages and the 'el'
trains filled in. One comment in the "Tracks of New York" was that
photos of the Third Av. segment were rare in any event. Streetcars
climbed to the structure at the outer end and provided a direct
transfer.
- Subject: Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn
- Message Number: 757350
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:20 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: 3rd Ave "EL" in Brooklyn posted by Gerry O'Regan
on August 12, 1997 at 17:05:02:
Following up my own post to add the fact that the route was more
commonly known as the Bay Ridge Branch rather than 3rd Av. El. This
may be useful in locating photos in someone's index
Thread title: NYC SUBWAY MAP (757214)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:44 1997, by MICHAEL MOSLEY
- Subject: NYC SUBWAY MAP
- Message Number: 757214
- Posted by: MICHAEL MOSLEY
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:44 1997
CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO GET A SUBWAY MAP OF NYC? AN ADDRESS WHERE I
CAN WRITE? E-MAIL ME AT MEMEPHIS60@AOL.COM THANKS!
- Subject: Re: NYC SUBWAY MAP
- Message Number: 757232
- Posted by: NO CAPS (The Infamous NO is back)
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:58 1997
In Reply to: [5]NYC SUBWAY MAP posted by MICHAEL MOSLEY on August 08,
1997 at 02:03:25:
STOP CAPITALIZING!!!!!!!!
Damn AOL
- Subject: Re: NYC SUBWAY MAP
- Message Number: 757233
- Posted by: NO MAP
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:59 1997
In Reply to: [5]NYC SUBWAY MAP posted by MICHAEL MOSLEY on August 08,
1997 at 02:03:25:
Go to [6]http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us
and follow the links.
Thread title: How to go to a contra dance by subway (757215)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:45 1997, by David Simonoff
- Subject: How to go to a contra dance by subway
- Message Number: 757215
- Posted by: David Simonoff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:45 1997
Welcome!
Join those who have discovered an American tradition older than the
subterranean passageways of the iron road,
American folk dancing!
Contradancing, Square Dancing, and English Country Dancing
at Metropolitan Duane United Method Church, located on the northwest
corner of W. 13th St and 7th Ave in the borough of Manhattan
DIRECTIONS BY SUBWAY:
#2 TRAIN TO 14TH STREET
F TRAIN TO 14TH STREET
D TRAIN TO W. 4TH ST
For information, call 212-459-4080 or
[5]Follow Ups:
* [6]Re: How to go to a contra dance by subway NO SPAM 20:03:02
8/09/97 (0)
* [7]Re: How to go to a contra dance by subway David Pirmann -Web
Site Host 11:04:44 8/08/97 (0)
- Subject: Re: How to go to a contra dance by subway
- Message Number: 757216
- Posted by: David Pirmann -Web Site Host
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:45 1997
In Reply to: [6]How to go to a contra dance by subway posted by David
Simonoff on August 08, 1997 at 09:36:04:
I'm going to let this one slide since it is obviously non-commercial,
but please, this board is not for unsolicited offtopic advertising. It
is bad enough that Usenet has been ruined and I have to deal with 20+
spam e-mails a day.
- Subject: Re: How to go to a contra dance by subway
- Message Number: 757234
- Posted by: NO SPAM
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:59 1997
In Reply to: [5]How to go to a contra dance by subway posted by David
Simonoff on August 08, 1997 at 09:36:04:
You are a SPAMMER, you deserve to die (ignore that last thing).
Hopefully
the host will delete this thread
Thread title: New Flyer Artic Buses (757221)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:49 1997, by Michael S. Buglak
- Subject: New Flyer Artic Buses
- Message Number: 757221
- Posted by: Michael S. Buglak
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:49 1997
I am a transit fan in the Philadelphia suburbs who also enjoys
visiting NYC & riding the subway & buses when there. I've read that
NYCT now has some New Flyer articulated buses in service. I would like
to ride one the next time I'm in NYC. What routes are they being used
on? Also would like to know fleet numbers. Any info is much
appreciated!
Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA 19426
- Subject: Re: New Flyer Artic Buses
- Message Number: 757226
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:53 1997
In Reply to: [6]New Flyer Artic Buses posted by Michael S. Buglak on
August 08, 1997 at 14:02:53:
The new flyers are currently only in the Bronx. ON the Bx41 which is
the Webster Ave. bus, the Bx55 is the 3Av limeted and the Bx1, Bx2
which both run on the Grand Concourse. The next depot to get the
articulates will be Flatbush depot in Brooklyn. I dont know the
numbers yet of these buses however, maybe someone else does.
- Subject: Re: New Flyer Artic Buses
- Message Number: 757246
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:09 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New Flyer Artic Buses posted by Fernando Perez on
August 09, 1997 at 00:03:08:
The New Flyer artic fleet numbers are #1001 - 1070
Thread title: Trolley system in Dallas, TX? (757222)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:50 1997, by John M.
- Subject: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757222
- Posted by: John M.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:50 1997
I attended a wedding in Dallas, Texas about two years ago, and as I
was lost between the church and the reception hall, I was surprised to
see trolley tracks and overhead cables in what seemed to be a
well-traveled commercial strip. The reason for my surprise was that
Dallas seems to be almost a completely car-dependent city.
Does anyone have any info on the Dallas trolley, i.e. how extensive is
their trolley system?, is it well-used, what area (s) does it serve?
is it really just decorative like the San Francisco trolley? Did
Kristin flee on the trolley after she shot J.R.??
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757227
- Posted by: Bobw
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:54 1997
In Reply to: [6]Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by John M. on
August 08, 1997 at 15:54:05:
You are probably referring to the McKinney Avenue line which operates
from the fringe of downtown Dallas out toward the north-northeast for
about 2 miles. It operates heritage cars, some from Dallas, some from
others (it had a Melbourne car when I visited it in '93). It was to be
extended over the LRT line to better serve downtown, and another
northern extension would take it to a transfer point with a future LRT
station (I think at City Place). It is quite an interesting line. When
I rode, I visited the carbarn at the north end and got the "cook's
tour" from a man who was working on a car at the time. More on this is
included in the Light Rail Annuals printed by the now-defunct
Passenger Train Journal a few years back.
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757228
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by Bobw on
August 09, 1997 at 00:12:02:
Dallas does have a rather extensive light rail system consisting of
currently (I believe) 2 lines but will consist of other lines in the
future. For a map of the system, check out the transit systems
worldwide of this web site
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757229
- Posted by: donl
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by John M. on
August 08, 1997 at 15:54:05:
You can find information on the Dallas Area Rapid Transit System
(DART) by going to www.interplaza.com then looking under "Cities of
the Metroplex" - INFRASTRUCTURE. You will then see a subgroup called
"Roads, Traffic, Railroads". This has two areas "DART" and "Unofficial
DART Light Rail Page". This shows the new DART system and the new
Trinity Express which is the new commuter rail that runs from Irving,
TX presently to downtown Dallas (Union Station) and eventually will
connect the Mid Cities and Fort Worth to Dallas.
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757230
- Posted by: donl
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:56 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by Bobw on
August 09, 1997 at 00:12:02:
For pictures and more info on what John mentioned, you can go to
www.startext.net/homes/railscene/mata/mata.htm. This explains the
McKinney Avenue Trolley.
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757235
- Posted by: Joe M
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:00 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by Bobw on
August 09, 1997 at 00:12:02:
McKinney Ave runs a nice system and is expending the system. I believe
that they will be using 2 of the Toronto 4600 series PCC cars for the
expansion. The Toronto 4600 cars are the same at the cars that are
going to Kenosha and have gone to Old Pueblo.
The trolleys have been a nice addition to the neighborhood I am told.
Still need to go see them myself.
Did ride the line in Memphis last week. They too are expanding.
- Subject: Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX?
- Message Number: 757241
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:05 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Trolley system in Dallas, TX? posted by donl on
August 09, 1997 at 08:38:35:
Here is a better address for the Mckinney Avenue Transit Authority
web site:
HTTP:sdf.lonestar.org.80/~sdg/mata/index.htm
This is THE site for MATA. It is maintained by a MATA member and gives
all info on the operation.
Thread title: Why so many delays?? (757224)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:58:52 1997, by BJ633
- Subject: Why so many delays??
- Message Number: 757224
- Posted by: BJ633
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:52 1997
Why are there so many delays on the Evanston Express? I rode recently
and
didn't really consider it an express. There were about five delays in
each direction from Linden--Wilmett to the Loop. It was also a long
ride
to Belmont from State/Lake. The red Line has a faster trip to Belmont,
but
the Evanston Express has a faster trip to Howard.
What my question is is, there were about five times when we slowed
very slow
or stopped between stations? I usually ride the red line between the
loop and Belmont
and the Blue Line from Forest Park to Downtown. I just thought the
ride on
the Evanston Express would be fun! It was to long! Almost about fifty
minutes!
Is it usually this long from State/Lake to Linden? It is only about 22
from
Forest Park to downtown and I have never had a delay on the Blue Line
and only
about three on the red.
I also rode the Ravenswood before and it was fun and no delays!
Is it becasue it is during the Week-day rush hours and there to many
trains
on the tracks and some have to wait for clearance? There was a about a
five minute
strech between Belmont and Howard going there when we did the full
speed
of fifty five. If they improved it so there were no delays and fifty
five the whole way between belmont and Howard, that would be a great
travel time!
What I am also saying is that the Blue and Red Line do fifty five
between
alot of stations with no delays. How come so many on the Evanston
Express?
Please respond and thanks in Advance
- Subject: Re: Why so many delays??
- Message Number: 757225
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:58:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]Why so many delays?? posted by BJ633 on August 08,
1997 at 19:06:30:
track work and things like stalled trains,emergencys at staions,etc
ect
- Subject: Re: Why so many delays??
- Message Number: 757244
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:07 1997
In Reply to: [6]Why so many delays?? posted by BJ633 on August 08,
1997 at 19:06:30:
The Evanston Express and the Ravenswood Line share the same trackage
betwen the Loop and Belmont. The most likely cause of the delays you
experienced was a Ravenswood train in front of you making all stops to
Belmont with excessive dwell times. That would have caused your train
to
stop between stations or travel slowly until you were provided
clearance.
You may have experienced delays at Howard near the tail end of rush
hour
because of the many Evanston trains waiting for Howard/Dan Ryan (Red
line)
trains to clear the terminal and head back OR lay up at Howard Yard.
Skokie Swift trains also content for the same limited platform space,
so
that may have also contributed to the delays. FInally it only takes
one
train with even a short delay to cause backups down the line.
--Mark
Thread title: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation ) (757237)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:02 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757237
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:02 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
posted by William A. Padron on August 09, 1997 at 14:50:50:
Two more NYC subway books have recently been released:
"Subway City : Riding the Trains, Reading New York"
by Michael W. Brooks (Rutgers University Press)
"The New York Subway System (Building History Series)"
by Tim McNeese
Haven't seen them yet although i did order them from Amazon. They're
in UPS-land somewhere. I think the second of the two is a children's
book but for $21 it seems pricey for a kids book.
- Subject: Re: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757245
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in
operation ) posted by David Pirmann on August 10, 1997 at 14:50:13:
Heard on a recent NY Transit Museum tour, the museum itself is
publishing
what was termed a comprehensive guide to all the subway cars that ever
ran
on the NY subway system ... it's supposed to be a complete
encyclopedia of
stuff on each car.
Estimated publishing date is 1Q98, and I don't have any more specific
details that that, though you might want to call the Transit Museum
itself
(ask for education) to see if they have any updated info.
--Mark
- Subject: Re: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in operation )
- Message Number: 757280
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:37 1997
In Reply to: [5]New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars ( currently in
operation ) posted by David Pirmann on August 10, 1997 at 14:50:13:
I have complained to Amazon.com about their failure to note Juvenile
books as such. To some extent fiction/non fiction can also be a
problem if not clearly labelled. Add your 2 cents on their comments
form, and maybe they will change. Meanwhile, would anybody like a nice
picture book on the building of the LA subways?
Thread title: San Francisco - Labor Day Weekend Events? (757239)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:03 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: San Francisco - Labor Day Weekend Events?
- Message Number: 757239
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:03 1997
If anyone out there is from the left coast...
Does anyone know if MUNI or the Market Street Railway (historic
trolley group) is planning anything special on Labor Day Weekend a'la
Trolley Parade or open house or anything like that?
--Dave
- Subject: Re: San Francisco - Labor Day Weekend Events?
- Message Number: 757252
- Posted by: Todd Glickman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]San Francisco - Labor Day Weekend Events? posted by
David Pirmann on August 10, 1997 at 21:49:04:
I checked the Market Street Railway Home Page (www.streetcar.org) and
didn't see any reference to an event around Labor Day. Nor do I recall
reading about anything in the MSRY Newsletter. I was out there a few
weeks ago, and visited the MUNI yard where the historic cars are
stored (a friend of mine helps manage the PCC fleet). Those cars sure
could use their wheels turned!
Thread title: Miami Fare$$$$$ (757240)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:04 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Miami Fare$$$$$
- Message Number: 757240
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:04 1997
Can someone tell me the fares for the Metrorail & Peoplemover in
Miami.
Thread title: Re: New Books- Transit Museum (757247)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:10 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: Re: New Books- Transit Museum
- Message Number: 757247
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:10 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars (
currently in operation ) posted by Mark S Feinman on August 11, 1997
at 12:43:24:
I wonder if this book project will be shelved (no pun intended) along
with all the tours that have been cancelled and other projects
suspended (i.e. City Hall Station renovation). For those that don't
know, the NY Transit Museum has had a large number of staff quit in
the last month or two. At least a few tours have been cancelled so
far. Usually when large numbers of people quit at once it is an
engineered plan by the management done to clean house, although it's
arguable that having your staff quit makes one look better than firing
them :-). If anyone on the inside is reading this, care to share
what's going on?
- Subject: Re: New Books- Transit Museum
- Message Number: 757248
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:11 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New Books Was Re: Photos of Subway Cars (
currently in operation ) posted by Mark S Feinman on August 11, 1997
at 12:43:24:
One more comment-- does this mean that MTA NYCT is turning over a new
leaf in terms of publications? Prior to this, NYCT has published very
few books- in fact, other than the yearly F&F, none come to mind. None
of the important transit books about the NYC subway have been
published or commissioned by NYCT.
This is completely opposite of London Underground. LUL/LT is the
publisher of MOST of the books available on the history of the London
system. From detailed line-by-line histories to rolling stock books
etc. LT has an official book about everything. And of the books they
don't publish, it seems to me they'd consider it a sin if they didn't
have copies on hand at the LT Museum (e.g. Rails thru the Clay). At
the NYTM it's hit-or-miss that they'll have any of the well known
books at all...
Anyone know why that might be?
--Dave
- Subject: Re: New Books- Transit Museum
- Message Number: 757267
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:27 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New Books- Transit Museum posted by David Pirmann
on August 11, 1997 at 12:58:26:
Is the fall Transit Museum tour schedule (for members
at least) already out? What tours were cancelled?
(Sometimes they get cancelled because of lack of
interest, though I have yet to go on a tour that hasn't
been sold out.)
I wasn't aware of the current turmoil at the museum
that you describe, but on the Routes Not Built tour I
was on last winter, the book came up in conversation.
What we were told was that people were calling the
museum to ask about books containing rolling stock
information, and there wasn't one comprehensive book on
the topic (although Ed Davis' "They Moved the Millions"
sure comes close). You had to check various books to
get the collective picture, so the museum, I guess in
an attempt to meet this need and add another way of
raising revenue, decided to create this rolling stock
"encyclopedia" that was being written by various folks
in NYC transit who worked on the cars, and that
includes retirees that worked on some of the older
cars. They hoped at the time to have it done in the
first quarter of 1998. If the museum is going through
some kind of shakeup, this may have an impact on the
book; I don't know.
Other than this, I don't think the Museum (or NYC
Transit) is going into the publishing business.
--Mark
Thread title: Does anyone know... (757249)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:12 1997, by Jeff
- Subject: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757249
- Posted by: Jeff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:12 1997
I have never seen an IRT train on BMT or IND lines so Does anyone know
how an IRT train get to the coney island yard?
- Subject: Re: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757250
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:13 1997
In Reply to: [6]Does anyone know... posted by Jeff on August 11, 1997
at 16:58:26:
There are a number of crossover points.
See [7]http://www.nycsubway.org/faq.html (FAQ in Progress) for
details.
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757251
- Posted by: Todd Glickman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:13 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Does anyone know... posted by David Pirmann on
August 11, 1997 at 17:00:56:
As Dave mentions in his FAQ, the diamond at Queens Plaza is the link
between the 7 and the rest of the world. So if you hang out at, for
example, 34th Street on N/R line during nights, you can often see IRT
cars on their way to/from the shops. The express track is sometimes
used for this purpose (though last weekend I saw a train of R-32s
"parked" there on the downtown side).
- Subject: Re: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757253
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:15 1997
In Reply to: [6]Does anyone know... posted by Jeff on August 11, 1997
at 16:58:26:
There are 3 common routes that IRT cars can use to access the BMT/IND
ROW.
The first is north of Queensboro Plaza, where IRT cars from the #7
line can cross over to the N line tracks to Coney Island.
The second is the flyover track from the #1 line, north of 207th
Street, which leads into 207th Street Yard. 207th Street is the yard
where heavy repairs are made to all IRT cars except for the #7 line
cars.
The third is the lead south of Bedford Park Blvd. on the #4 line into
Concourse Yard. Before the 207th Street flyover, this was the only
route for IRT cars to 207th Street Overhaul Shops. An IRT 'Drag' would
come into Concourse Yard via the lead. There BMT motors would be added
to either end and the train would leave Concourse Yard southbound over
the D line. At 125th Street, the train would be turned northbound,
over the A line into 207th Street yard. The Concourse yard connection
is used now primarily for work trains and #4 trains only.
- Subject: Re: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757256
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:17 1997
In Reply to: [6]Does anyone know... posted by Jeff on August 11, 1997
at 16:58:26:
It would be interesting for Steve with Concourse Yard or someone selse
to post where each line services their rolling stock- both light
overhaul and heavy overhau.
We've covered track maps, etc. and this would be intersting.l
- Subject: Re: Does anyone know...
- Message Number: 757257
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Does anyone know... posted by Jeff on August 11, 1997
at 16:58:26:
It would be interesting for Steve with Concourse Yard or someone else
to post where each line services their rolling stock- both light
overhaul and heavy overhau.
We've covered track maps, etc. and this would be intersting.l
Thread title: Main Line Tracks (757254)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:16 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Main Line Tracks
- Message Number: 757254
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:16 1997
In Reply to: [6]Transit Museum Cars & City Hall Station posted by Todd
Glickman on August 11, 1997 at 16:07:00:
It may come as a suprise to many but most loop tracks are considered
main line trackage. However, not all loops are certified for passenger
service. This includes the loop around Jamaica Yard. As recently as
1991, during incidents where the switches at 75th Ave (northbound)
failed, trains, with passengers (oops, that's customers) were looped
through the Jamaica Portal, around the yard, through the car wash
(sans water) and back out the portal. Other than bypassing the Union
Turnpike Station, the train then continued on it's normal route. With
the re-alignment of the yard tracks during the Jamaica Shop expansion,
the loop was de-certified for passenger use although the route is
still used when needed.
Thread title: Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets (757258)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:20 1997, by subway-buff
- Subject: Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets
- Message Number: 757258
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:20 1997
As promised. I am sharing NJT's response to my e-mail of joint tickets
with NJT and LIRR like they do with SEPTA.
They have advised that market studies indicate insufficient demand .
- Subject: Re: Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets
- Message Number: 757361
- Posted by: david vartanoff
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:28 1997
In Reply to: [6]Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets posted by subway-buff on
August 11, 1997 at 20:37:27:
un honor of what goes around. in 66 o67 the PRR was just discontinuing
sales of and canceling the tariff filings for joint PRR/LIRR tickets
including multi ride and monthly passes from points as far south
(railroad west) as Phila .
- Subject: Re: Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets
- Message Number: 757403
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:00 1997
In Reply to: [5]Joint NJT and LIRR Tickets posted by subway-buff on
August 11, 1997 at 20:37:27:
Don't be to suprised that that might come in the near future as there
are proposals to establish a connection terminal in the Sunnyside
Yards in Queens. This terminal would be used by the existing railroad
lines that use Penn Station.
Thread title: SEPTA Transit musuem (757259)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:20 1997, by Fernando Perez
- Subject: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757259
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:20 1997
I would like help from anyone out there concerning the Museum,
including hours and admision or where I can find info on the web. I
tried a lot of different things and haven't found not a thing. Thanks
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757264
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:24 1997
In Reply to: [6]SEPTA Transit musuem posted by Fernando Perez on
August 11, 1997 at 21:06:33:
It is a waste of time. There is one, yes one PCC car at subway level
and
a mediocre bookstore at street level. Admission is free, you get what
you
pay for...
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757270
- Posted by: Michael S. Buglak
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:29 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: SEPTA Transit musuem posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 08:36:30:
Actually, it is more of a store than a museum. There are a couple of
exhibits but it is no match for NYC's Transit Museum. The hours are
Monday-Saturday, 10a-5p. If you are still interested, email me & I'll
give you directions. - Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757281
- Posted by: Bobw
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:38 1997
In Reply to: [6]SEPTA Transit musuem posted by Fernando Perez on
August 11, 1997 at 21:06:33:
Despite aaron's advice, the museum is somewhat interesting, although
it is small. I would suggest that you not make a special trip to see
it, especially if you're coming from out of town (I assume you are,
given your previous messages on this service), but if you're here for
some other reason, it's a good way to kill a half-hour or so. It's a
shame that SEPTA didn't save more, and most folks I know ask the same
question - after PTC's purchase of 1000 GM old-look buses in 1955 to
replace the last of the non-PCC trolley lines, you'd have thought that
at least one of the buses would have been saved. Most of these were
still in service when SEPTA took over in '68 and a good number lasted
through the late 70's. SEPTA is going to restore two Brill C-31 buses
it obtained from elsewhere in Pennsylvania and plans to display them
in the Museum also (PTC never had these, but Red Arrow had some).
Flxible 6569 is preserved and operable ('74 vintage) but is stored at
one of the operating garages. Perhaps someday it will have a spot in
the Museum also...
Our New York friends who like to beat up on the transit in my town
(but always seem to arrange fan trips here to ride the trolleys,
tracklesses, etc) tend to forget the size comparison. SEPTA's rapid
transit fleet is less than 10% the size of NYCT and we have no
abandoned subway stops to convert into a museum. The so-called ugly
Market-Frankford cars are one of only two active fleets we have on our
rapid lines. But we still have trolleys.
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757290
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:45 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: SEPTA Transit musuem posted by Bobw on August 12,
1997 at 21:10:48:
... and the Market/Frankford cars are due for retirement very soon
with the arrival of the M4s (as I thinkl they're called).
This would be a good time for SEPTA to put away a married pair of MF
cars for eventual display in their museum. (Some have already been
scrapped). Ugly as some people might think they are, they carried alot
of people for a very long time.
--Mark
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757294
- Posted by: Bobw
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:49 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: SEPTA Transit musuem posted by Mark S Feinman on
August 13, 1997 at 13:14:33:
While the current El fleet is not the most sleek and handsome in the
world, it has its good points, as you've attested. Just like the IRT
Redbirds, which were often denounced as plain old boxes with waffle
ceilings, but everyone's scrambling to get pictures of them now that
their days are numbered.
It may be a while before the M4 cars are here in sufficient numbers to
push the Budds out of regular runs. Only the mismated married pair of
test cars is here, the order is a year and a half behind. Adtranz says
that 32 married pairs will be on the property by the end of the year,
and reportedly this will be Adtranz's last transit car order. Feel
free to believe any of these three statements that you want. The test
cars have failed to clear several close areas in the subway, taking
out some tunnel lights (allegedly) in the process, and may be too
heavy and too wide (trying to "fishbelly" the body to give more
interior room is not working). Meanwhile, some Budds are already going
to the scrap line.
The beauty of the Budds to me is their timelessness. SEPTA has for the
most part kept them in good operating order and they look nice too. To
those who don't know better, I don't think you'd get an accurate guess
at their age (when SEPTA announced the need to replace them, some
folks wrote the local papers that it was a waste of money to retire
such new cars). Of course, this on a system which kept museum relics
on Broad St until they just couldn't run any more - and SEPTA is not
known for its maintenance. I think the Budds are much more classy and
handsome than the Kawasakis on Broad St - the front ends, with all the
marker lights, remind me of some tin toy from the '60's (I hate to say
"made in Japan"). These would be much more handsome if some more care
would have been put into the design of the ends.
Back to your point - no doubt a few Budds will be saved, and
hopefully, at least one will end up alongside PCC 2733 in the
concourse level of 1234 Market.
- Subject: Re: SEPTA Transit musuem
- Message Number: 757298
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:52 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: SEPTA Transit musuem posted by Bobw on August 13,
1997 at 23:08:37:
I've always felt that the Budds, despite the half-blind fronts and the
vents on the roofs were more attractive than the the Frankford cars.
As to the Kawasaki's on Broad: To me it looks like all K did was to
copy the Brills in Stainless steel and add lights all over the front.
They may resemble the Brills, but they don't deliver. (Although I'm
beginning to hear faint gear growl - may be wishful hearing, or could
be "that SEPTA maintenance.)
Thread title: Are you safe? (757260)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:21 1997, by Charlie Bonaire
- Subject: Are you safe?
- Message Number: 757260
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:21 1997
Although I never had any bad experiences on the NYC subways, except
for stuff I had to step over, I know visitors are always warned about
subway crime (and I don't know how typical my experience has been). A
colleague of mine is about to start at Albert Einstein College in The
Bronx. As I have been gone from the greater metropolitan area for a
few years, my advice to this NYC first-timer may not be up to date. (I
was going to go with "Take a cab.") Should my friend be concerned, and
if so, in what areas?
- Subject: Re: Are you safe?
- Message Number: 757262
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:23 1997
In Reply to: [6]Are you safe? posted by Charlie Bonaire on August 11,
1997 at 22:34:41:
Your friend should not be concerned as much as cautious. The best
advice I can offer is this:
Assume all unidentified swimming animals are sharks.
When sharks are present - don't bleed.
In other words - use caution and common sense.
- Subject: Re: Are you safe?
- Message Number: 757274
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:32 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Are you safe? posted by Steve on August 12, 1997
at 00:11:24:
Safety is often a matter of prevention. Don't let your actions tag you
as an easy mark. Be familiar with where you are going. Learn where the
trains stop when fewer cars are operating, stay out of places where
there is poor visibility, be alert and usually you won't attract the
attention of potential miscreants. NYCT is a good operation, and has a
good security system, but you can't watch every nook and cranny of
over 400 stations!
Here in Boston we are creating a system conducive to crime. Instead of
brightly painted stations with lots of white tilework, we have a rough
sound absorant meterial on the ceilings which is dark gray! Stations
have more and more nooks and crannys without good sight lines.
Lighting is indirect, often relying on reflections off the gray
surfaces. Other panels are off white with perforations, which attract
subway dust. and become enlarged visually by the black grime,
reflecting less light. Finally the tinted windows on the cars make it
impossible to see the platform or sometimes even read the signs. Dumb!
Gerry
Thread title: Subway Mtce. Yards (757261)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:22 1997, by Steve
- Subject: Subway Mtce. Yards
- Message Number: 757261
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:22 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Does anyone know... posted by subway-buff on
August 11, 1997 at 20:31:38:
The following lines service their fleets at these maintenance shops
A Line .. R44s at Pitkin and R-38s at 207th Street
B Line ,, R-40s and R-68As at Coney Island
C Line .. R-32 at Pitkin and R-38s at 207th St
D Line .. R-68s at Concourse Shop
E Line .. R-32 & R-46 at Jamaica
F Line .. R-46 @ Jamaica
G Line .. R-46 @ Jamaica
J Line .. R-42 @ East NY
L Line .. R-42 @ East NY
M Line .. R-40 & R-42 @ East NY
N Line .. R-32 & R-68 @ Coney Island
Q Line .. R-68 or R-68A @ Coney Island
R Line .. R-32 & R-46 @ Jamaica
FS Line .. R-68 @ Coney Island
S Line .. Same as A line
NOTE: Some of the above will be changed in 1998
Overhaul shops - Pitkin and 207th Street fleets use 207th Street
Overhaul Shop. All other B division cars use Coney Island Overhaul
Shop.
- Subject: Re: Subway Mtce. Yards
- Message Number: 757296
- Posted by: irv
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:50 1997
In Reply to: [6]Subway Mtce. Yards posted by Steve on August 12, 1997
at 00:06:04:
Isn't the M services at Metropolitan Ave?
- Subject: Re: Subway Mtce. Yards
- Message Number: 757297
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:51 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway Mtce. Yards posted by irv on August 14,
1997 at 03:45:19:
The M train fleet is serviced at East NY Yard on Bushwick Avenue.
There is a lay-up yard (fresh pond) at Metropolitan Ave but there are
no servicing facilities there.
Thread title: A Division Maintenance Yards (757263)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:24 1997, by Steve
- Subject: A Division Maintenance Yards
- Message Number: 757263
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:24 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Does anyone know... posted by subway-buff on
August 11, 1997 at 20:31:38:
The following IRT Cars are serviced at the following Maintenance
Shops.
#1 & 9 Lines ..... R-62A @ 240th Street Yard
#2 Line ............. Redbirds @ 239th St
#3 Line ............ R-62A @ Livonia Shop
#4 Line ........... R-33 & R-62 @ Jerome Shop
#5 Line ........... All @ East 180th Street - (Now at 239th Street
while East
180th Street Shop is re-built
#6 Line ........... Redbirds & R-62As @ Pelham Shop
#7 Line ........... R-33s & R-36s @ Corona Mtce Shop
S Line ............ Pelham Mtce Shop
All heavy repairs of A division cars are done at 207th Street Overhaul
Shop except #7 line cars which are done at Coney island.
Thread title: ugliest subway car poll (757265)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:25 1997, by aaron
- Subject: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757265
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:25 1997
What's your vote for the ugliest subway car currently in service
nationwide. Mine is a tie between SEPTA's Budd A-49/50s that run on
the
Market-Frankford line and the NYC R40s built by the St. Louis Car Co.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757266
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
If you had an subway interior category, my vote would definetely go
for the H-5 cars in Toronto, built by Hawker-Siddeley.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757275
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:33 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bingo on August
12, 1997 at 13:26:27:
My vote is for e hometown "favorite", Boston's No. 1 South Shore cars
as built. Architecturally the cars are a ZERO, flat ends with
absolutely no streamlining. Add to this the brushed aluminum 'finish'
which the cars were delivered with, and you had a squarish box which
came from the manufacturer looking dirty. Inside you could have any
color you wanted, as long as it was a shade of gray! The seats and
floor were black, relieved only by the knife cuts in the seat cushions
which revealed off white padding. The flourescent lighting was
adaquate, but with a bright interior the cars would have been doggone
bright. And finally there were no advertisments at all, though a map
card was thoughtfully provided near each door. Even the end bulkhead
at the cab was gray, with gray tinted glass in the cab partition and
all around the car. (except for the end windows which were clear so
that you could see that the other half of the married pair was just as
ugly).
Thankfully after several years, the exteriors were painted red and
white with gray roofs. However the follow-up order of painted steel
cars used the same plans and with the exception of inward facing seats
with thin padding, the same interior!
Compare this with the earlier 01400s, which despite being the most
uncomfortable and noisy subway cars ever built, had floors of off
white tile, orange fibreglass seats, light blue window area, doors and
bulkheads, stainless steel ad racks, back-lighted color line and
system maps, and an off white ceiling with gold flecks. In all, there
were 80 bulls-eye ceiling lights, plus the lights behind the maps and
so-forth.
The 01800s, which are stainless steel, still have the gray interior,
though at least the seats have red upholstry!
But the 01500 and 01600 cars are the pits, even compared to the slant
end R-40 with its plethora of safety equipment, or those "Almond Joy"
cars in Philadelphia!
Gerry
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757276
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:34 1997
In Reply to: [6]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
My vote goes to the R 32 rebuilds (not the ten by GE but the others).
They are bland outside and even blander inside. Second place goes to
the Non-WF mainline IRT Redbirds that do *not* have the tilt "picture"
window.
The R-38 cars are ok- The combo of fluted and flat stainless makes
them more intersting. I'm sure the seemingly grimy look of the R32
musty ber the dust collecting in the raised /fluted side of the cars.
The GE cars are nice- They kept the lighted ads (I've ridden them!)
My vote for favorite cars:
All-time: IRT Lo-V
Current Fleet: R-44/46. 2nd place R62/A, R68/A (tie)
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757285
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:41 1997
In Reply to: [6]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
I agree with you on the R-40's, but my only difference is pre safety
additions the R40's were the prettiest cars!
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757289
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:44 1997
In Reply to: [6]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
In no particular order, I think these subway cars are the ugliest:
- Slant R40s since the rebuild. Forget about the safety railings
installed after the R40s debuted ... the door windows are completely
uneven with the picture windows making for an ugly appearance. The
R40Ms and R42 are close but these get points for their revised fronts.
- R32 since the rebuild. The cab ends look naked with just the
singular illuminator sign. The R38s look much nicer.
- The C Types. Though I never saw one in person, the pictures I've
seen make these cars look like they came from parts of 4 other
carscombined.
- Older cars of the Paris Metro. Yeech!
--Mark
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757299
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:52 1997
In Reply to: [6]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
Id have to say that
1)The BART cars.Ugly,ugly,ugly....and not for the bay area
2)all the PATH cars are ugly to be...but especially the ones with the
white car bodies.
3)yes...the R-40 is up there
4)the CTA's 2400 and 2600 series cars.The car bodies are like dark
alloy and they have tinted windows for an overall ugly appearence(to
me anyway)
5)the Breda DC Metro cars.what can i say there just not great looking
cars(and those rubber tires make me sick).But look ok in the rest of
the ugly architecture of the Metro.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757301
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:54 1997
In Reply to: [6]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
Id have to say that
1)The BART cars.Ugly,ugly,ugly....and not for the bay area
2)all the PATH cars are ugly to be...but especially the ones with the
white car bodies.
3)yes...the R-40 is up there
4)the CTA's 2400 and 2600 series cars.The car bodies are like dark
alloy and they have tinted windows for an overall ugly appearence(to
me anyway)
5)the Breda DC Metro cars.what can i say there just not great looking
cars(and those rubber tires make me sick).But look ok in the rest of
the ugly architecture of the Metro.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757304
- Posted by: Lou from Middletown
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:57 1997
In Reply to: [5]ugliest subway car poll posted by aaron on August 12,
1997 at 12:54:49:
I always thoght the old IRT 1938 Worlds Fair cars were pretty sad
looking things.They certainly aged about as badly as any car ever did.
Whoever is also right about the C units. Although you gotta admit the
BMT did throw them together in a hurry, and for virtually no money!
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757323
- Posted by: Lou from Brooklyn
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:14 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Fernando Perez
on August 12, 1997 at 23:47:17:
What did they call the R40 additons, some dental thing??
Braces for Subway car, something like that.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757330
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Lou from
Brooklyn on August 15, 1997 at 11:58:23:
I've always heard it called "orthodontics"... which is a slightly more
sinister word for braces :)
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757333
- Posted by: Bingo
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:22 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Lou from
Middletown on August 14, 1997 at 14:23:58:
Didn't they just add another set of doors to a bunch of streetcars and
modify the bogies so they would fit on the new track guage?
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757347
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:17 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bingo on August
15, 1997 at 17:04:09:
Note: everything transit in New York and Brooklyn was and is standard
guage. The only difference is in the flanges - streetcar flanges are
smaller than railroad flanges. The el's and subways have always used
railroad flanges in their trucks. (In the USA and Canada the term for
the wheel units has always been "trucks" For example: an open (summer)
car is a double-truck open car in US/Canada, but a "bogie toastrack"
in England.
As Winston Curchhill stated "We are two peoples divided by a common
language".)
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757348
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:18 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bryan Layne on
August 14, 1997 at 12:58:20:
What rubber tires? The Washington Metro is a steel wheel on steel rail
system. Rubber tires are found in North America in on the Montreal
system.
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757351
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:20 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Dan Lawrence on
August 16, 1997 at 17:41:51:
My mistake ...what was i thinking....shoot me in the head!!
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757352
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:21 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Mark Greenwald
on August 16, 1997 at 11:49:09:
Hey man ...its been a while since DC...i was just thinking wrong...jee
wiz...ill try not to make such a huge mistake like that again...i just
dont want to get a mail bomb or something...
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757353
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:22 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bryan Layne on
August 16, 1997 at 22:43:25:
No problem BIG GUY----Dave will attest, any shot at the DC Metro I
take just a little more personally than most-----sorry to be soooo
harsh but I'm glad I got my point across---otherwise---glad to know ya
Bryan
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757357
- Posted by: John
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:25 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Mark Greenwald
on August 17, 1997 at 01:41:40:
I'd have to say that the BART trains don't look very attractive,
likewise the Washington DC trains. In fact, any cars with a curved or
bent side, I don't think are very attractive (this includes the R-44
and R-46, R-68 and R-68A cars in New York).
- Subject: Re: ugliest subway car poll
- Message Number: 757376
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:39 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bryan Layne on
August 16, 1997 at 22:40:24:
i hoe you dident mean it literalally. :)
Thread title: OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express) (757268)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:28 1997, by Mark S Feinman
- Subject: OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express)
- Message Number: 757268
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:28 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express posted by Brian on
August 08, 1997 at 13:35:29:
I don't know if there are long term plans to convert
all of the NYC subway lines to OPTO and what that
schedule might be. Perhaps someone else following
along that works for NYC Transit might be better able
to comment on OPTO plans. But I think it's in the
future for sure. New cars are being ordered with
transverse cabs that can certainly accommodate OPTO.
It would take just one successful trial along one line
(longer than a shuttle route for instance) to get the
ball rolling, and it is certainly a technical
feasibility.
--Mark
- Subject: Re: OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express)
- Message Number: 757273
- Posted by: subway-buff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:32 1997
In Reply to: [6]OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express)
posted by Mark S Feinman on August 12, 1997 at 13:37:47:
Some lines are unable to work with OPTO, such as South Ferry- How
would the motor person cut out half the train! 145 and Lenox- 4 cars
only-Likewise how does the motor person cut out the rear 5 cars!
Most lines maybe- all lines ? no!
- Subject: Re: OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express)
- Message Number: 757279
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:36 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: OPTO in NYC (was Re: OPTO on the Evanston Express)
posted by subway-buff on August 12, 1997 at 17:40:30:
With current train-door mechanisms that is true. There is nothing that
prevents them from developing a remote cut-out for door control on
cars that aren't on the platform... So don't expect this or other
simple mechanical issues from preventing it from happening.
With new trains coming I wonder if this isn't already planned for:-)
--Dave
Thread title: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? (757269)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:28 1997, by Mark S Feinman
- Subject: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757269
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:28 1997
Heard on WCBS Newsradio 88 in New York this morning
(8/12): an escalator was stolen from the Court Street
(Brooklyn) station back in June. The escalators are
being rebuilt and one of them was stolen. 80 steps
weighing in at 40 lbs each with an estimated value of
$1,000 per step were removed over some period of time.
If you've seen anyone carrying large, shiny, suspicious
objects in the vicinity of Court Street while riding
the M,N,R,2,3,4 or 5 lines, or perhaps on the buses
that travel within blocks of downtown Brooklyn, I'm
sure NYC Transit would like to discuss this with you.
Also, if your building has been suddenly renovated with
a shiny, new escalator that was added as "an addendum
to the original building plan" that might not go
anywhere (hmmm, 63rd Street might be able to use it),
contact your superintendent for full details.
--Mark
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757277
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Mark S
Feinman on August 12, 1997 at 13:46:46:
As Todd Glickman reminded me, Seashore recently obtained the lower 1/4
of an old escalator from the MBTA. (Don't worry, it had wooden cleats
instead of aluminum steps) But it was no simple project, and could not
be done without being noticed by someone. Only some pretty sharp
crooks could pull this off, probably posing as repairmen. But why? For
the same level of effort, they could have stolen something far more
valuable, less bulky, and even marketable! There has to be more to
this story!
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757278
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:36 1997
In Reply to: [5]Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Mark S
Feinman on August 12, 1997 at 13:46:46:
This will make you sick, but odds are the step castings went for
scrap. We lose bridge rails all the time in California, and that's
where they go. The crooks get pennies on the dollar, but since it's
all "profit" they go for it.
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757321
- Posted by: Lou from Brooklyn
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:12 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Gary
Jacobi on August 12, 1997 at 18:46:38:
Lets look at this theft.
The Daily News said that a scrap dealer would only pay about $0.35 a
pound for the stairs or $1,300.
Now brand new they are $1,000 a step or $80,000, but the TA is buying
used steps at $350 or $28,000.
Now I don't think the persons who stole the steps did it for $1,300
but $28,000 looks good to me.
I hope the TA is NOT buying back their own used steps!!!!
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757346
- Posted by: Dan Lawrence
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:17 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on August 15, 1997 at 11:51:57:
If the TA bought back it's own steps, then the job could have been an
inside one! Maybe the TA needs to investigate it's own people or
contractors.
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757356
- Posted by: John
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:24 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Gerry
O'Regan on August 12, 1997 at 18:30:26:
I just have one question that seems to have been overlooked:
HOW THE HELL DO YOU STEEL AN ESCALATER??????!!
I suppose the thief just stuck it in his pocket, right? :-)
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757365
- Posted by: Dave Pirmann
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:31 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by John
on August 17, 1997 at 02:23:46:
Well contrary to what all those NO_LOOT_Rail people think about
transit access leading to crime, it's pretty obvious to me that the
theives didn't use the subway to get away with their booty :)
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757375
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by Dan
Lawrence on August 16, 1997 at 17:31:30:
That's part of my point. Escalator parts are not Toyota parts. They
cannot be spray painted and sold at rummage sales. If someone were
foolish enough to buy the steps in hope of reusing them, who would
sell te motor, controls, and frame. Do you think the manufacturers
would deal with someone who says "oh, by the way, I already have the
step castings"?
- Subject: Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator?
- Message Number: 757379
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:41 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Buddy, Can You Spare an Escalator? posted by John
on August 17, 1997 at 02:23:46:
Ahhh ... you've never seen the famous cartoon made by Warner Brothers
called "The Portable Hole" with Professior Cornelius Q
Something-or-Other.
Thieves stole the professor's invention and decided to rob NYC Transit
of
their beloved escalator, just to satisfy themselves that this kind of
theft could be done. In the cartoon, the thief places a portable hole
on
a wall and dives through it, ending up in a maximum security prison.
We
have yet to see if these real thieves place the hole on the wall of
the
Court St station and end up in the Brooklyn correctional facility on
Boerum Place!
--Mark
Thread title: PCCs in NYC (757284)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:41 1997, by Charlie Bonaire
- Subject: PCCs in NYC
- Message Number: 757284
- Posted by: Charlie Bonaire
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:41 1997
I was wondering if PCC cars have ever been used in the NY transit
system.
- Subject: Re: PCCs in NYC
- Message Number: 757287
- Posted by: Dan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:43 1997
In Reply to: [5]PCCs in NYC posted by Charlie Bonaire on August 12,
1997 at 23:16:33:
The PCC cars were used on the Brooklyn trolley services until the
elimination of all trolley service in 1956.
- Subject: Re: PCCs in NYC
- Message Number: 757295
- Posted by: Joe M
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:49 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: PCCs in NYC posted by Dan on August 13, 1997 at
09:16:11:
NYC had the first PCC it is now at the trolley museum in Kingston NY
- Subject: Re: PCCs in NYC
- Message Number: 757331
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:20 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: PCCs in NYC posted by Joe M on August 13, 1997 at
23:58:09:
Some of the BMT subway-el cars of the 1930s were covered by the PCC
patents and therefore qualified as PCC cars. The Green Hornet and the
Bluebird come to mind.
Thread title: Commuter Rail Fares (757291)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:46 1997, by Timothy
- Subject: Commuter Rail Fares
- Message Number: 757291
- Posted by: Timothy
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:46 1997
Can anyone tell me why commuter rail lines have a different fare
structure
than that of buses, subways, trolleys, etc.? How come tokens and
transfers
are not honored on commuter trains? How come commuter rail systems
don't
fall under the same catagory as subways, elevateds, and trolleys? Why
do
you have to buy tickets to pay fares on commuter trains, instead of
having
fare boxes, similar to those on buses and trolleys installed at each
end
of the train, and manned by a conductor, who would see that each
passenger
pays as they enter the train? And finally, unlike the buses, subways,
and
trolleys, How come rush hour fares on commuter rail lines are higher
than
off peak fares, instead of having a "fixed" fare good for anytime? I
feel
that it would be much more convenient, and less confusing if commuter
rail
lines operated the same way as the rest of the transit system.
- Subject: Re: Commuter Rail Fares
- Message Number: 757292
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:47 1997
In Reply to: [6]Commuter Rail Fares posted by Timothy on August 13,
1997 at 19:31:29:
Timothy asks:
>Can anyone tell me why commuter rail lines have a different fare
structure
>than that of buses, subways, trolleys, etc.? How come tokens and
transfers
>are not honored on commuter trains? How come commuter rail systems
don't
>fall under the same catagory as subways, elevateds, and trolleys? Why
do
Commuter railroads do not necessarily have a different fare structure.
In Philadelphia, the same fare zones apply to buses in the suburbs as
to the commuter rail lines. In the city, however, there is a flat zone
fare for transit, while the commuter trains are graded.
The reason for the differences is that commuter trains are much more
expensive to operate. As there are very few automated or honor systems
in this country, most commuter lines require armies of conductors,
trainmen, and ticket agents.
Commuter rail is different from other transit modes in that it is
regulated by the Federal Railroad Administration and Surface
Transportation Board, rather than the Federal Transit Administration.
The origins of this discrepancy date back to the Interstate Commerce
Act of 1887 and later Federal railroad legislation. By these acts,
interurban and trolley lines were exempted from federal regulation as
being outside of the streams of commerce between states. This was
later extended to buses and subways when they were invented. To
qualify for such a waiver of railroad regulation, a rail system must
show that it does not carry frieght, and that it is not connected
directly to passenger only systems which connect with freight
railroads. These distinctions can become arbitrary. PATH is considered
a railroad, because its predecessor, the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad
shared track with the Pennsylvania. These connections have long since
been severed, but there is great opsition to reclassifying PATH on the
part of the maintainance unions, who benefit from the requirements of
more frequent inspections. The New York Subway, on the other hand, as
with a number of other systems, did carry freight, but was still
exempt, through its South Brooklyn Railway subsidiary. The major
differences are over inspection timing, and the buffing strength
(crashworthiness) of the cars - the buffing strength is much higher
for railroads than for transit, hence the more massive equipment.
Commuter railroads are also generally distinguished by less frequent
stops than on a transit line, lesser frequencies, and longer train
length - though these are by no means universally applicable
standards. Perhaps the old Supreme Court obscenity standard is the
best - "I know it when I see it."
>you have to buy tickets to pay fares on commuter trains, instead of
having
>fare boxes, similar to those on buses and trolleys installed at each
end
>of the train, and manned by a conductor, who would see that each
passenger
>pays as they enter the train? And finally, unlike the buses, subways,
and
Because the stops are further apart, the conductor and trainmen have
plenty of time to collect fares before anyone can get off. Even where
this is not the case, as on some intracity lines, the majority of the
riders are to the central business district, and riders detraining
before then are quickly seen by the conductor and trainmen, who must
man the doors. Where there can be problems is on a line with frequent
stops with many people boarding and disembarking at each. On the Paoli
line from Philadelphia, this becomes problematic with the many
students riding to and from various academies such as Haverford, Bryn
Mawr, Rosemont, Villanova, etc. All to frequently, they are able to
get on and off before the conductor has gotten to them. In general,
the problem is no worse than the turnstile jumping in New York.
>trolleys, How come rush hour fares on commuter rail lines are higher
than
>off peak fares, instead of having a "fixed" fare good for anytime? I
feel
>that it would be much more convenient, and less confusing if commuter
rail
>lines operated the same way as the rest of the transit system.
COmmuter trains must have peak and offpeak fares to equalize equipment
use and ridership as much as possible. Ideally, everyone would like to
ride in between 7:30 and 9 am and leave between 4:30 and 6 pm. From
the railroads point of view, this creates problems of equipment which
sits idle and unproductive all day. To try to solve this problem to
some extent, fares are discounted outside peak hours or in the
direction opposite of most travel, and are raised during the peak
hours. The sucess of such programs varies. Some time ago, on the
Reading lines out of Philadelphia, a full 1/4 of all fares were off
peak, the highest in the country. Other lines have thrown in the towel
and only operate during the peak hours. Generally, the lines with the
most even riding patterns are blessed with the following - 1) typical
8 am to 5 pm commuters, 2) 7 am to 3 pm students, 3) 10 am to 4 pm
shoppers, 5 pm to 11 pm evening crowds. Most lines haul almost
entirely group number 1. Only the most important lines, with many
destinations along the way, see anything resmbling even riding
patterns (such as the NJT Trenton - New York line or the SEPTA Paoli -
Philadelphia line).
While it might be less confusing to adopt transit like fares, the
railroads would need massive subsidies to do so. Many lines reach up
to 60 miles into the suburbs, which is much to far for any sort of
flat fare to be cost effective (longer hauls cost more money). And
actually, the universally acknowledged most complex fare structure
award goes to the Washington Metro - a transit system.
Andy
- Subject: Re: Commuter Rail Fares
- Message Number: 757339
- Posted by: BJ633
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:29 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Commuter Rail Fares posted by Andrew Byler on
August 13, 1997 at 21:51:54:
Question? Why do turnstile jumpers get away with it in NYC. I have
ridden
only a few times and never seen this. Here in Chicago there are
station
agents at every station where the turnstiles are active and we dont
have
that problem. There is only one entrance to my knowledge that is
station
agent free. I was surprised the first time I rode on Sunday when the
turnstiles were active and there was a station agent on duty.
You are right about the ticket collection problems on Commuter
rail-roads.
I have ridden many times for free and saved my ticket for next time.
Also: The speed limit for express trains here is 70 MPH not 60. There
is
just one suburb where a fatal crash took place and the speed is
reduced to
50. You proabaly heard about the school bus crash in Fox River Grove.
Don't you think they should get rid of grade crossings? That way the
trains
could go as fast as they want and not have to worry about hitting
cars.
They are working to fix this problem, but it is very hard. becuase if
they
build a bridge over the railroad, then they would wipe out some
buisinesses
right next to the tracks that would be in the way of the bridge.
Please respond ASAP
- Subject: Re: Commuter Rail Fares
- Message Number: 757388
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:49 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Commuter Rail Fares posted by BJ633 on August 15,
1997 at 21:55:00:
I grew up experiencing several grade crossing eliminations on the Long
Island Railroad. They were safer, but they were expensive even then.
Today the cost would be prohibitive. In retrospect, they turned
country towns into suburban beehives overnight. It would have occurred
eventually anyhow, but what was the rush?
- Subject: Re: Commuter Rail Fares
- Message Number: 757425
- Posted by: Andrew Byler
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:17 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Commuter Rail Fares posted by BJ633 on August 15,
1997 at 21:55:00:
BJ633 writes:
>Also: The speed limit for express trains here is 70 MPH not 60. There
is
>just one suburb where a fatal crash took place and the speed is
reduced to
>50. You proabaly heard about the school bus crash in Fox River Grove.
Actually, if you check my post, I was referring to distance into the
suburbs. Speed can climb much higher than this. SEPTA, New Jersey
Transit, and MARC all reach above 90 mph on the NEC - with the top
title going to MARC, which claims a 105 mph top speed (SEPTA and NJT
Silverliners and Arrows are limited to 95 mph by Amtrak).
Grade crossing elimination serves a useful purpose only if it is
economical. This won't happen until service becomes very frequent and
ties up traffic a lot. There is no excuse for people dying at grade
crossings, as all such accidents are preventable. If people insist
upon doing unsafe actions like driving around gates, not stopping at
unmarked crossings, running through ones with bells and lights going,
they are simply asking for trouble. Stop, look, listen, as the old
safety saying goes. Or as the famous old railroad rule says "Expect a
train to move on any track at any time in any direction and at any
speed." My own personal feeling is that railroad crossings are natural
selection at work - survival of the fittest - or in this case the
smartest - call it a little chlorine in the gene pool. As to costs
when improvements are made: the trains were there first, and it is
generally up to the municipality to pay for such improvements.
Andy
Thread title: subway car apearance (757293)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:48 1997, by Zack
- Subject: subway car apearance
- Message Number: 757293
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:48 1997
is the TA doing anything to prevert their old stored cars looking
acceptable and not being broken in to???????/
Thread title: Best Lookin' Subway Cars (757302)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:55 1997, by Bryan Layne
- Subject: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757302
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:55 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: ugliest subway car poll posted by Bryan Layne on
August 14, 1997 at 12:58:20:
These are my favorites.........not in any particular order......
1)the Redbirds
2)the R-32
3)CTA's 3200 series cars
4)SEPTA's new M-4 cars(i think thats right)
5)all of the MBTA cars(some of the last cars in the US with painted
car bodies)
6)Cleveland REd Line cars(with overhead power)
7)i actually like LA's Red Line cars
8)I like the MARTA cars too
9)the R-62
10)the R-68
11)Toronto TTC cars
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757303
- Posted by: Ed Sachs
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:56 1997
In Reply to: [6]Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by Bryan Layne on
August 14, 1997 at 13:10:24:
I always thought that the old BMT cars were really sharp looking,
espcially the Triplexes.
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757306
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:58 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by Ed Sachs on
August 14, 1997 at 14:02:12:
I think when MTA tried to unite all the cars to look the same in the
70's it looked pretty sharp. The r40's,r42's,r44's and r46's and the
M1 commuter cars.
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757316
- Posted by: aaron
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by Fernando Perez
on August 14, 1997 at 16:30:45:
Ok, since I started the ugliest subway car poll, it is only fitting
that
I respond to the best lookin' subway car.
The best lookin' subway car was the recently scrapped 2000 series
built
by Pullman Standard for the CTA in the early 60s. These were the first
air-conditioned subway cars built in the country and were very stylish
in
their original green and white paint scheme. Subsequent repaintings to
silver and black tarnished their image. A two-car unit rests at the
Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL and another unit is rumored to be
in storage in the Harlem Avenue shops on the Green Line. Can anyone
verify
this?
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757319
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:10 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by aaron on August
15, 1997 at 09:26:46:
My 2c on the best looking thread-- I like the new London Jubilee line
cars (and really any of the London tube red-white-blue rebuilds). They
look pretty sleek. (Pictures [7]here.)
The BART slope-front cars are pretty cool--obviously they learned from
the R40 mistake when they built these a couple years after the R40).
The flat-front cab cars are pretty ugly though. (Pictures [8]here.)
As for New York, someone said they liked the BMT D-types.. I always
thought those were pretty scary looking. The D-types were the heaviest
cars ever to roam the NYC subway and they look it. Big and
intimidating. Of the current crop I think the R44/R46 front ends look
the nicest. I think they should have left the 8 door indicator lights
per car though :)
--Dave
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757322
- Posted by: Lou from Brooklyn
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:13 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
>>8 door indicator lights per car though :) I loved them, when they
would wink out like that. Now there are to few to get that effect.
LoL
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757328
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:18 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
Well, gee, to a subway buff, they're ALL nice lookin'!!
Even the ugly ones :-)
But to choose from my favourites, again in no
particular order:
NY: The R1/9 in original olive green paint scheme.
(some would say grimy black :-))
NY: R-32 before the MK rebuild
NY: R-38 after the MK rebuild
NY: R-36 world's fair cars in two tone paint scheme
NY: LIRR / Metro North Cosmopolitan series cars
(M-1,2,3,etc) (OK these aren't subway cars but I think
they're designed well)
The R42, 44, 46 look kinda naked since their blue
stripe was removed as part of the rehab. The R62/68s
were delivered "naked" (without the blue stripe).
Elsewhere:
CTA 3200s get a vote in my book
Baltimore/Miami.
Boo of the year: Norristown N-5 cars. Yeech!
--Mark
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757329
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
Good Looking Cars
With the exception of those mentioned in my earlier post, I agree on
most MBTA cars.
I also like the Chicago 2000s - haven't seen the 3200s up close. BTW,
MBTA 01490-91 were built with molded fibreglass ends to test the
technique for the 2000s. These cars were the only ones ever on the Red
Line with swinging end doors.
One of the top units - not mentioned - are Philadelphias original
Bridge Cars. They were designed by an architect - nothing else like
them!
As for NYC I have a soft spot for the R-10,12,14 series. They looked
good in any scheme and had cheerful interiors. R44 and R-46 looked
great as built. Rebuilds have uglified almost every series.
Gerry
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757332
- Posted by: Todd Glickman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:21 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by Gerry O'Regan
on August 15, 1997 at 13:43:35:
For best looking I guess I'd have to vote for the R-32s in their
original condition (with blue doors!). In the mid-60's when they first
came out I'd make my grandparents take me to one of the overpasses on
the Brighton Line, and stand there until a train of R-32s came by
(usually one out of ten; the rest were R-1/9s). A number of years ago
I bought a Chevy Blazer in the silver/blue color scheme in memory of
that fleet's original look...
For worst "looking" I guess I'd vote for anything with a full-width
cab and no rail-fan front window!
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757377
- Posted by: Charles
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:40 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
My opinions may not be poupular but here is my list of favorites based
on looks only.
1. Nostalgic - Low Voltage cars
2. Current A division R62's
3. Current B Division R110B's
4. M.O.W R127/R134 & R21 Revenue Collectors
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757389
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:49 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
Are you sure about the relative timing of the BART versus R-40 cars? I
distinctly recall seeing R-40's for the first time and saying to
myself "Half-assed BART copies". Then I realized that BART trains do
not permit moving between cars, and so NYCTA had screwed themselves
mightily with the gap between abutting slant noses.
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757399
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:57 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by David Pirmann
on August 15, 1997 at 09:55:22:
I'd say the best looking cars at NYCTA (forgive me, but I do not like
the MTA/NYCT name) are the R-44/46 models. I like the R-68/68-A's bu
the recessed storm door doesn't look as good as the R-44/46's flush
storm/cab door. Also I think that the end/red lights positioned over
the headlights do not look as good as they are positioned on the
R-44/46's (side by side with red on the outside). I think the R-44/46
interiors are also far better looking the any other models.
Thread title: 24 hour service started when? (757305)
Started on Mon Aug 25 19:59:57 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: 24 hour service started when?
- Message Number: 757305
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 19:59:57 1997
Recently I was asked if the subway always operated 24 hour per day
service. I wasn't sure one way or the other. Did the IRT have 24 hour
service on Day One? Did the Manhattan and Brooklyn Elevated systems
have 24 hour service? Any info would be appreciated.
--Dave
- Subject: Re: 24 hour service started when?
- Message Number: 757310
- Posted by: Koi
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:02 1997
In Reply to: [6]24 hour service started when? posted by David Pirmann
on August 14, 1997 at 15:20:51:
AFAIK, 24 hour service has been aruond on the IRT since Day One.
As for the Manhattan elevated system, I believe that 24 hour service
was started shortly after the first el opened. and has existed ever
since on the els until they were torn down.
I'm not sure about the Brooklyn Elevated system.
Koi
- Subject: Re: 24 hour service started when?
- Message Number: 757326
- Posted by: Ed Sachs
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:16 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: 24 hour service started when? posted by Koi on
August 14, 1997 at 21:15:55:
Just an added note on surface transit -
Back in the days before electric streetcars, Manhattan had a large
cable
car network. In most other cities, the cable cars were shut down for
several
hours every evening so that routine maintenance could be performed on
the cables, powerhouses, etc. But, New York required 24-hour a day
service. So, the Manhattan cable car lines had two cables so that one
could be shut down for maintenance while the cars kept operating.
Thread title: R142 route indicators (757308)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:00 1997, by Nick
- Subject: R142 route indicators
- Message Number: 757308
- Posted by: Nick
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:00 1997
Dave, thanks very much for the computer-generated photo of the R142.
One question though. In the pic, the front of the train, the route
indicator (in this case the #5) is the typical sticker on the window.
I thought it would be more like the R110 A el;ectronic sign, like the
rebuilt R-38's (I think) Also, does the MTA plan to have colored
electronic signs on the sides of the subways, or we'll they continue
to be yellow and black? THANK YOU!
Thread title: New buses (757309)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:01 1997, by Jeff
- Subject: New buses
- Message Number: 757309
- Posted by: Jeff
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:01 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: New Flyer Artic Buses posted by Fernando Perez on
August 09, 1997 at 00:03:08:
Why are the floors on the articualed buses so low? And if the low
floors dont agree with the rugged terrain of NYC streets what will the
MTA do then?
- Subject: Re: New buses
- Message Number: 757313
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:05 1997
In Reply to: [6]New buses posted by Jeff on August 14, 1997 at
18:52:17:
The new floor scheme the Department of buses is going with has been
experimented for a while now, and they claim that it works well even
in the most pothole ridden streets. The low floor design permits the
disabled to enter from the front easier, including those in
wheelchairs with a ramp that lowers that the operator controls from
the seat. Ive driven these New Flyer buses at Lagurdia Airport for the
Port Authority here in New York before I worked for New York city
transit, and the only problem I found with them is you must watch out
for high curbs because they scrape the bottom of the stepwell if you
pull in to close to the stop.
- Subject: Re: New buses
- Message Number: 757314
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:06 1997
In Reply to: [5]New buses posted by Jeff on August 14, 1997 at
18:52:17:
You mentioned the floors being low in the articulateds. Are you
referring to the New Flyer artics - they are not low floor buses. The
low floor bus being tested by NYCT is a New Flyer, but it's a 40 foot
bus. I think it would be a mistake for NYCT to operate them,
especially on busy routes, because of the steps in the rear of the
bus. I see it a series of unfunate accidents waiting to happen - and
of course they'll be lawsuits following - but this is just my opinion.
- Subject: Re: New buses
- Message Number: 757337
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:26 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: New buses posted by Wayne Johnson on August 15,
1997 at 01:00:59:
The articulates are low floor design because the disabled come through
the front door with a ramp deployed by the operator.
Thread title: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads (757311)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:03 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757311
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:03 1997
In Reply to: [6]El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Timothy on
August 14, 1997 at 15:56:56:
Check out our list of model vendors at [7]Vendors. I know there was at
least one company making el structures, and there's quite a few
companies (notably Images Replicas) making inexpensive NYC subway car
models.
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757315
- Posted by: Frank Gatazka
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:07 1997
In Reply to: [6]El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Timothy on
August 14, 1997 at 15:56:56:
Currently, there are no commercial models of "El" structures available
in HO scale. Chicagoland Hobby, 6017 N. Northwest Hwy, Chicago, IL
(312)775-4848 has Chicago prototype El structures available in O
scale. Years ago (in the seventies) Model Traction Supply offered cast
white metal El structure components, but no longer produces this
product. You might try contacting Joel Lovitch at MTS Imports, P.O.
Box 50 , Middletown, NY and see what he knows about the status of
these castings. I think that Norm Hauser P.O. Box 68, Fountainville,
PA is currently offering many of the old Model Traction Supply parts
and he MAY have these available. MicroEngineering has injection molded
styrene kits for a "city viaduct" that could be used to simulate an El
structure, but it is based on a railroad trestle prototype, not a true
El. Images Replicas has plans to bring injection molded styrene kits
of the Third Avenue El (Manhatten) to the market. You can contact them
at
Images Replicas, P.O. Box 99, East Norwich, NY. Otherwise, you will
have to scratch build the El structure. This is not as bad as you
might think. See Pat Villani's home page at
www.iop.com/~patv/railroad.html for references regarding model El
construction. Mr. Villani is currently undertaking an El construction
project using casting techniques. He has also published some photos of
my El models that were constructed from basswood assembled in jigs.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757317
- Posted by: Dave
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:08 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: El Structures For Model Railroads posted by David
Pirmann on August 14, 1997 at 21:19:32:
The Red Caboose, 23 West 45th St., 212-575-0155 had (had) some brass
NYCTA subway cars. There's another hobby shop across the street (the
name escapes me but I'm sure some of the NY browsers to this board
know the name) also has some brass models.
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757320
- Posted by: Timothy
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:11 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Frank
Gatazka on August 15, 1997 at 07:45:30:
In reference to the "city viaduct" kits by MicroEngineering, I found
out
just yesterday that they were not true El structures. I own several of
those kits, and am in the process of assembling them. I ordered the
kits
from a Walthers catalog at a hobby shop near my home. I called
Walthers
yesterday to find out if there were any station houses and platforms
designed especially for the city viaduct kits, and was told that none
were
available. I told Walthers what I was using the city viaduct for, and
that's when they told me that the viaducts were not designed after
true
El structures, but railroad trestles. They said that many people have
used
the city viaduct kits as Els on their layouts, as they have a very
striking
resemblance to El structures. Do you know what railroad trestle the
city
viaduct kit was designed after, and where it's located?
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757325
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:15 1997
In Reply to: [6]El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Timothy on
August 14, 1997 at 15:56:56:
Sounds like you bought the Walthers kits of BART,
Washington DC, Metro North, etc.
One thing you can do with the Washington DC cars for
your "Any Big City USA" layout is paint them all
silver, put a blue strip down the length of the
carbody, cut out NYC subway map station names and
colored route signs, glue them in the appropriate
places, and Presto - you have a NYC-based subway car.
The blue stripe decals from the BART models work pretty
well. Call your new model the R-200 or something like
that. And you don't need fancy airbrush equipment. I
did it with a can of silver spray paint.
There is a hobby shop in Pennsauken, NJ whose name
escapes me at the moment that has in the past carried
NYC subway cars. The Red Caboose in NY also carries
them but he's very expensive. As mentioned by others,
MTS Imports and Images Replicas have or will have NYC
subway cars and EL structures. However, there are
relatively few people in the rapid transit modelling
arena and to make the prices of these pre-cast EL kits
reasonable, a large quantity would be needed. Seems
there isn't the interest to sustain this kind of order,
but Images Replicas is giving it a try. Hope they
succeed.
If you are local to NY or PA, you MUST attend the Fall
Trolley Extravaganza at the Holiday Inn in King of
Prussia, PA on Sept 5 (late evening) and Sept 6th,
1997. You'll find other modelers who share your
interest, will be able to see some of their layouts
(East Penn Traction Club and the NY Model Transit
Association are two that come to mind quickly) and can
exchange ideas for building your layout.
(Frank - are you exhibiting part of your EL structure
there this year??)
My first layout was, and still is, similar to yours in
idea. In HO scale, it doesn't have any ELs (maybe in a
few years!) but it does have my version of what
Stillwell Ave might have looked like had part of the
station been in subway and part as an open cut. It has
quite a bit of subway tunnel running and some open cut
running, and the walls to these areas are all
grafitti'ed up (this gave my family the "opportunity"
to contribute to the layout).
Good luck!
--Mark
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757366
- Posted by: Philip Dominguez
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:32 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Dave
on August 15, 1997 at 09:36:26:
Try this website for model subway cars-
http://www.tiac.nrt/users/glenk/subways.html
they sell quite a few different models of 2nd generation IRT cars
and a couple of BMT/IND cars.
-Phil
- Subject: Re: El Structures For Model Railroads
- Message Number: 757374
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:38 1997
In Reply to: [5]El Structures For Model Railroads posted by Timothy on
August 14, 1997 at 15:56:56:
I notice you presently own mostly modern cars and wonder if you would
be content to model contemporary elevated structores like BART and DC
Metro. Simulating concrete box girders is a snap compared to iron or
steel overhead, especially latticework. I find this out now that I
have converted Bachman G scale coaches into gate cars, procured one
forney and almost finished a conversion into another. Now I must face
up to the repetitive work of building 40 or so El spans to mount on
stub columns around a room at 7' height.
Thread title: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!) (757312)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:04 1997, by Zack
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757312
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:04 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Fernando Perez on August 13, 1997 at 01:13:22:
on portlands westiside-MAX line the surronding developement is mike a
million??? on new buildings bisness etc, on the new eastside max there
already bilding and it hasent even opend yet. ith has atteacted
bisness homes and revialtalised the area
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757380
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:42 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Fernando Perez on August 13, 1997 at 01:13:22:
Let face facts here. Diesel buses do not last long. Everyone knows
that. Trolleys and trolley buses have a better lifespan overall
because their components are different than the diesel buses. As far
as the GMC conspiracy is concern, I won't doubt that they had a hand
in the demise of the trolleys.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757381
- Posted by: Bill Ruiz
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:43 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Gerry O'Regan on August 12, 1997 at 16:33:58:
As far as electrical costs are concerned, I do believed that the mass
transit systems in NYC are supplied by the NEW YORK POWER AUTHORITY
which uses hydroelectrical power which is cheaper than getting it from
CON EDISON. If anyone knows differently, please feel free to correct
me. P.S. are you by any chance related to a Frank O'Regan from L.I.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757384
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:46 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Bill Ruiz on August 18, 1997 at 14:01:37:
To Bill Ruiz:
No known relatives on my father's side outside the British Isles.
Family originated in Listowell, Co. Kerry, Irl.
Admittedly hydro power is cheaper than fossil fuel. Still though,
there is a lot to be done to get a TT system up and running. Its
easier to expand an existing system as in SF.
Gerry
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757446
- Posted by: Fernando Perez
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:34 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Bill Ruiz on August 18, 1997 at 13:54:16:
Thier is a documentary that was showed on public TV about the demise
of the trolley in the United States through a conspiracy involving the
purchase of private trolley properties and running them into the
ground so that buses would come in. I forgot the name of the show but
it aired as a POV special. Its what started my interest in trolleys
actually.
- Subject: Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC (second try!)
- Message Number: 757460
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:45 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Rebirth of trolleys and trolleybuses in NYC
(second try!) posted by Fernando Perez on August 20, 1997 at 10:38:37:
It was called "road to ruin" i have 2 copies on it i cant find my good
copy :*(
Thread title: First A-C cars was Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars (757318)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:09 1997, by David Pirmann
- Subject: First A-C cars was Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757318
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:09 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by aaron on August
15, 1997 at 09:26:46:
The Hudson & Manhattan / PATH MP-52 (1200-1229) and K (1230-1249)
series cars (same design but the designations were different due to
the PRR owning the MP-52's and the H&M owning the K cars; they were
used in pool service on the Newark-Journal Square joint service line)
were air conditioned from the builder (St. Louis Car), in 1958. So
that's before the early 60s :)
--Dave
- Subject: Re: First A-C cars was Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars
- Message Number: 757358
- Posted by: John
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:26 1997
In Reply to: [5]First A-C cars was Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted
by David Pirmann on August 15, 1997 at 09:48:22:
I always though that the R-17s were good-looking cars, especially with
the circular window on the end doors. I also liked the R-11s because
they were 'unusual', and of course, the Redbirds (but to tell you the
truth, I think they looked slightly better with the dark green paint
job from the late 1980s).
Thread title: Best and Worst Stations (757324)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:14 1997, by BJ
- Subject: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757324
- Posted by: BJ
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:14 1997
What do you think are the best and worst Subway/Elevated stations?
( as in falling apart or great shape, like just built or well
maintaned)
Please choose one of each.
I would say BART's Dublin/Pleasonton is the best.
The CTA has some pretty old stations. The Cermak/Douglas branch of the
Blue Line and the Ravenswood Line are in pretty bad shape. Can't
really
pick a worst station.
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757334
- Posted by: John M.
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:24 1997
In Reply to: [5]Best and Worst Stations posted by BJ on August 15,
1997 at 12:32:33:
I can only speak for stations in the NYC transit system that I think
are the best and worst.
My least favorite station, hands down, is Times Square. Sure, it may
have been nice at one time, but its current state is atrocious. It is
filthy, ugly (notwithstanding the new entrance), stifling in the
summer, freezing in the winter (particularly the IRT platform), and
dirty water drips on unsuspecting passerbys if they step in the wrong
place. The station needs to be totally overhauled, and it would be
nice if more businesses (like the record store) occupied some of the
vacant areas.
I'd have to say that my favorite station thus far is the 231st Street
stop in the Bronx on the #1/9. It has pretty grillework (as, I think,
a lot of the elevated IRT station in the Bronx), and lots of
character, thanks in part to the surrounding neighborhood,
Kingsbridge. There is a great pizza place nearby, and the Tibbett
Diner, 5 blocks away at 231st & Tibbett Ave, is arguably the best
diner in the City.
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757344
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:15 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by John M. on
August 15, 1997 at 17:14:03:
I agree with you that Times Square is a pretty wretched station. In
addition to the items you mentioned, the station has another major
drawback - very poor signage. It can be quite difficult for people who
aren't familiar with the station to find their ways around.
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757349
- Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:19 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by Peter Rosa on
August 16, 1997 at 16:00:12:
I'll vote for stations in Boston, where I am most familiar. The worst
is South Station on the Red Line. "Modernized" a few years ago, it is
the most disjoint station on the system. Stairways are inconsistently
located, some reach the paid area, others the unpaid area, sight lines
are poor, lighting is dismal, and the decor ... just isn't!
Fortunately another rehab will result from the Big Dig, though it will
probably get worse!
My favorite is Boylston on the Green Line! Bright, well ventilated,
interesting track and platform layout, and even a vintage car display.
With a 90 degree curve entering/leaving, noise could be bad, but seems
to be under control w/ LRVs and Type 7s resilient wheels.
Gerry
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757355
- Posted by: John
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:23 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by Gerry O'Regan on
August 16, 1997 at 22:27:37:
In the New York Subway, I'd have to say that the worst (or among the
worse) is the Coney Island station. That station is filthy, the
signage is old (it still shows the B, D, and Q train signs in the
yellow circles from 10 years ago), water is dripping all over the
place, it reeks of urine, and is overall in an atrocious state of
decay.
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757378
- Posted by: Charles
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:41 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by John M. on
August 15, 1997 at 17:14:03:
In my humble opinion the Best stations are as follows, not in any
particular order.
1. 149 Street and 3rd avenue on the 2/5
2. 36 Street Brooklyn
3. 9th avenue despite its crumbling appearance it is still a good
place for photography
4. 57th and 7th avenue
5. Brooklyn Bridge Staion. on the 456
6. Metropolitan Ave. on the M
7. BY far and worth mention though it is not a revenue station The
original City Hall (loop) Staion
The Worst Staions based on experience and looks are as follows
1.Chambers Street on the JMZ
2. All of the Sea Beach Stations from 59 St to Stillwell Ave.
3. Someone Mentioned it already, but Stillwell Avenue is an eyesore
for such a junction. It should be rehabiltated.
4. Delalb Avenue on the D/Q/N/R sometimes M, Sometimes B
5. 95 Street on the R
If you have an opinon against mine please feel free to let me know
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757387
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:48 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by Charles on
August 18, 1997 at 08:33:11:
I can recall the Chambers St station smelling of urine 45 years ago,
and just about everyone used the toilets back then!
- Subject: Re: Best and Worst Stations
- Message Number: 757413
- Posted by: Lou
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:13:08 1997
In Reply to: [5]Re: Best and Worst Stations posted by Charles on
August 18, 1997 at 08:33:11:
Any station on the Frankiln Shuttle!!
Whenever will they overhall that line, or just keep closing stations
(Dean St).
Thread title: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars (CTA 2000's) (757327)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:17 1997, by Ed Sachs
- Subject: Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars (CTA 2000's)
- Message Number: 757327
- Posted by: Ed Sachs
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:17 1997
In Reply to: [6]Re: Best Lookin' Subway Cars posted by aaron on August
15, 1997 at 09:26:46:
aaron wrote:
>The best lookin' subway car was the recently scrapped 2000 series
built
>by Pullman Standard for the CTA in the early 60s. These were the
first
>air-conditioned subway cars built in the country and were very
stylish in
>their original green and white paint scheme. Subsequent repaintings
to
>silver and black tarnished their image. A two-car unit rests at the
>Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL and another unit is rumored to
be
>in storage in the Harlem Avenue shops on the Green Line. Can anyone
>verify this?
Yes, there is a pair of the 2000's in the Lake/Harlem Yard. I see them
every day on my way to/from work on the Metra UP West line. They were
repainted in pullman green with gold trim (a design supposedly like
the first
Chicago L cars) for the L's centennial in 1992, and the cars have been
renumbered 1892 and 1992. The best view of these cars is from passing
Metra trains, although they can be seen from street level on Circle
Ave.
in Forest Park.
Thread title: # 7 Flushing Line, last time, need book info. (757338)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:27 1997, by Tom Van Etten
- Subject: # 7 Flushing Line, last time, need book info.
- Message Number: 757338
- Posted by: Tom Van Etten
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:27 1997
I`ve noticed some new names so would like to post this one last time:
I would like information pertaining to a short story in an old Pulp
Fiction collection of short stories. The
P.F. is about an inch and a half thick. The story takes place in New
York City on the #7 train from Times
Square heading to the last stop at Main Street, Flushing. The
characters realize that as they are
progressing from station to station that they are getting younger by
the minute. Doing some quick math
they determine that they will not exist at the time the train arrives
at Main Street, and that no one would
even miss them or know that they ever existed. If I remember
correctly, all ends well and all live happily
ever after when as the train pulls in to the Willets Point station and
an old disembodied pirate whose ship
sank many decades ago in Flushing Bay becomes reunited. ( I may be
creating my own fiction here, but as
they safely arrive in Flushing they realize that nobody will believe
their story.) If anyone can help with
author, title or even date when published or any feedback I would be
greatly appreciative.
Thread title: is the TA intersted in building eleavated's anymore??? (757340)
Started on Mon Aug 25 20:00:30 1997, by Zack
- Subject: is the TA intersted in building eleavated's anymore???
- Message Number: 757340
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Mon Aug 25 20:00:30 1997
is the TA going to build more elevated lines or have thay abandoned
that concept in favor of underground lines????
- Subject: Re: is the TA intersted in building eleavated's anymore???
- Message Number: 757371
- Posted by: Allan
- Date: Fri Sep 12 18:12:35 1997
In Reply to: [6]is the TA intersted in building eleavated's anymore???
posted by Zack on August 15, 1997 at 22:47:21:
Don't expect anymore elevated lines to be built in NY for some time
(if at all).
Underground lines may cost more to build but they are more efficient
and less obtrusive on the community (except while they are being
built).
I remember when the 3rd Av El Bronx portion was demolished back in the
mid 1970's. It was like night and day. You could actually see the
street. Never mind trying to drive under the El structure.
Local communities would never permit new elevated lines to be built
(Noise etc).
https://www.nycsubway.org/articles/talks/subtalk-199708.html
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