SubTalk Archive 4/1997

Thread title: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms (754164)
Started on Wed Apr 2 22:27:51 1997, by David M. Razler

Subject: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms
Message Number: 754164
Posted by: David M. Razler
Date: Wed Apr 2 22:27:51 1997

I looked closely this week and counted three: One is on the tracks leading to the giant train maintenance building - there used to be a full station there in my (20-year) memory, then a bare platform, now just the remains of one. On the tracks just East of Jamaica, there are the remains of at least two platforms with blocked concrete stairs leading down to streat level at each end. Anyone know which is Union (Hall?) Station and the names of the others? dmr
- Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms
- Message Number: 754169
- Posted by: steve
- Date: Thu Apr 3 22:53:42 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms posted by David M. Razler on April 02, 1997 at 22:27:51: The platform closest to Jamaica Station, I believe is Union Hall Station. Coincidentally, this is on Union Hall Street. The station which is on the lead to the Hillside Mtce. Facility eastern lead is Belaire. I'm not aware of the 3rd station but will check it out in the morning.

Thread title: 1&9 trackwork continues (754165)
Started on Wed Apr 2 22:37:32 1997, by David M. Razler

Subject: 1&9 trackwork continues
Message Number: 754165
Posted by: David M. Razler
Date: Wed Apr 2 22:37:32 1997

Night-time work continues on the northbound 1&9 in midtown, forcing the trains onto the express tracks after 42nd St until I believe all the way to 72nd. Views of the construction equipment ripping out the old wooden ties and ballast and replacing everything with concrete(?) sleepers apparently without ballast are excellent. The major problem seems to be the favoritism shown the 1&9 for those wishing donations for "music" or "song."

Thread title: BMT Night Services in the 30's (754167)
Started on Thu Apr 3 03:35:23 1997, by Ben-Zion Cassouto

Subject: BMT Night Services in the 30's
Message Number: 754167
Posted by: Ben-Zion Cassouto
Date: Thu Apr 3 03:35:23 1997

Does anyone have solid info on the **NIGHT SERVICES** run by the BMT in the 1930s (before the various El abandonments, but after 4th Ave, et al, were in full service)? I am particularly unsure about Southern Div routes: Brighton, Sea Beach, West End, Culver 4th Ave. The issues are: a. Terminals b. Broadway vs Nassau Loop c. Express or local: - on 4th Ave Brooklyn - on Broadway Manhattan

Thread title: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! (754170)
Started on Fri Apr 4 07:41:38 1997, by Todd Glickman

Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
Message Number: 754170
Posted by: Todd Glickman
Date: Fri Apr 4 07:41:38 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms posted by steve on April 03, 1997 at 22:53:42: Correct... the Hempstead branch, way back when, (according to my father who rode it from Brooklyn to Hofstra) after Jamaica went: Union Hall Street Hillside Hollis Bellaire Queens Village Bellrose Floral Park Stewart Manor Nassau Blvd. Garden City Country Life Press Hempstead Signs of the old Union Hall Street station are still there as noted; the Hillside station was where the overpass to the Babylon branch now joins the Main Line just west of the Hillside Facility employee station. The Bellaire station was in use well into the 70's I believe. Now here's a quiz on another topic: Name the only station on the LIRR that has electric service just once a day, and only in one direction, and why! (Bonus points for historical background...)
- Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
- Message Number: 754172
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Fri Apr 4 11:14:08 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Todd Glickman on April 04, 1997 at 07:41:38: I believe the correct answer is Hunters Point. Train #2068 - the 5:29 to Ronkonkoma....
  - Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
  - Message Number: 754173
  - Posted by: Todd Glickman
  - Date: Fri Apr 4 11:37:10 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Steve on April 04, 1997 at 11:14:08: Well if yours is true, then there are TWO! It's not the one I'm thinking of...
    - Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
    - Message Number: 754178
    - Posted by: Bob Andersen
    - Date: Fri Apr 4 18:49:14 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Todd Glickman on April 04, 1997 at 11:37:10: This is a wild guess: Isn't there one electric train that starts from East Williston on the Oyster Bay Branch in the AM. I think all the other trains servicing that station are Diesels.
      - Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
      - Message Number: 754182
      - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
      - Date: Sat Apr 5 00:15:13 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Bob Andersen on April 04, 1997 at 18:49:14: He he he...... Make that two lines - yes, there is an electric from East Williston, and i think durring PM peak there's an electric that terminates at Mineola, however I've never actually seen an electric on Oyster Bay. Oh yeah, since we're in the area, does anybody know about the old Garden City station, and the ROW that was pulled out sometime i think in the 1970's in that area. I think it was the Mitchel Field run, and I read somewhere that it was the last line to run MP 41's, and the only one to run RDC's on the LIRR I'm assuming it was electric at some point, anyone know about this??
        
        Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
        Message Number: 754183
        Posted by: David Steckler
        Date: Sat Apr 5 08:01:51 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 05, 1997 at 00:15:13: I think the RDC's were run only on the Babylon-Patchogue Scoot.
        
        Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
        Message Number: 754184
        Posted by: Bob Andersen
        Date: Sat Apr 5 12:58:28 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 05, 1997 at 00:15:13: The Central RR of Long Island ran from Flushing through Queens to Creedmore (which used to be some sort of recreation area, rather than a psychiatric hospital), crossing what is now the LIRR main line near Floral Park, continuing along the present day Hempstead Branch ROW to Garden City. From there it extended all the way to Bethpage, finally ending at Babylon (the portion from Bethpage to Babylon is still in use ). The book I have, Steel rails to the Sunrise, by Ron Ziel and George Foster, shows the portion from Flushing to Creedmore being abandoned in 1879 (much of it now is the Kissena Corridor) and that from Creedmore to Floral Park abandoned somewhat later (although there was still a trestle over Jericho Tpke. at Little Neck Pkwy. as late as the 70's). I'm not sure when the portion from Garden City to Bethpage was last used. One question: There is a firehouse east of the present day Garden City Station along the old ROW that certainly LOOKS like an old station. Does anyone know anything about its history?
        
        Subject: Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ!
        Message Number: 754190
        Posted by: Todd Glickman
        Date: Sun Apr 6 08:44:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Bob Andersen on April 04, 1997 at 18:49:14: Yes indeed. There's a 7:28 A.M. Mon-Fri only departure from East Williston westbound. (There is no corresponding P.M. eastbound train.) The equipment for the A.M. train deadheads to East Williston and relays on the crossover just east of East Williston. In the late 60's there was a push to electrify the Oyster Bay branch, but the communities didn't want to give up their "rural" diesel service, so the LIRR abandoned the plans. But in the meantime, they had built high-level patforms and extended the third rail to East Williston. I suppose they have continued to run the one A.M. train to keep the third rail shiny! Now, of course, they will have to build high level platforms all the way to Oyster Bay to accomodate the new bi-level coaches that won't have traps and steps for ground level loading. (I grew up in Roslyn Heights, not far from the Albertson station. It sure is nice to go home and hear the crossing whistles. Where I live in suburban Boston now, whistles are outlawed.)

Thread title: P & BRK Wires (754171)
Started on Fri Apr 4 09:02:36 1997, by Richard Bevan

Subject: P & BRK Wires
Message Number: 754171
Posted by: Richard Bevan
Date: Fri Apr 4 09:02:36 1997

I am trying to find some background information on P and BRK wires. I understand that this system is in general use in USA. I realise that the system allows analogue signals to be transmitted from the cab to the brake and propulsion equipments as a current loop signal switched at low frequency (109 Hz?). What I would like to know is the background to this system and how fault conditions are detected and handled. Any information and/or pointers to reference documents would be appreciated. Regards Richard P.S. I have just got access to the web and it is amazing what railway information is out there. Found the NY site very interesting.
- Subject: Re: P & BRK Wires
- Message Number: 754181
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Fri Apr 4 22:09:48 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]P & BRK Wires posted by Richard Bevan on April 04, 1997 at 09:02:36: 'P' Wire was used on NYCT equipment for 2 contracts of cars. The R-44s and then the R-46s both were delivered with brake systens controlled by a P Wire signal as opposed to the standard control via 'straight air'. Simply put, at full current, the brakes would release and at zero current, a full service brake application would occur. Obviously a failure of the P Wire generator or anywhere in the P Wire loop caused a stuck brake condition. R-44 equipment was particularly susceptible to this form of failure because it didn't have the redundent systems built into the R-46. The 46s had 2 P-Wire generators which could be controlled from the cab via a 'transfer switch'. In addition, they had Hostlers, miniature controllers which allowed the train to be operated (only up to 2nd point of power and 2 fixed brake rates) during a P-Wire or control failure. Later, a Stuck Brake Bypass was added. This released the brakes without P Wire in the event of a failure. Happily, in 1990, P Wire was removed from both contracts during the cars mid-life overhaul.

Thread title: SIRR to NYC (754175)
Started on Fri Apr 4 13:00:20 1997, by Blaise Dupuy

Subject: SIRR to NYC
Message Number: 754175
Posted by: Blaise Dupuy
Date: Fri Apr 4 13:00:20 1997

I was looking at a Hagstrom street atlas and noticed that there is a rail line going from the SIRR along the north shore of Staten Island to Elizabeth connecting with the North East Corridor of NJTransit. Did they ever run trains into Manhattan on these tracks, and/or could this be done now?
- Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
- Message Number: 754180
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Fri Apr 4 22:06:06 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]SIRR to NYC posted by Blaise Dupuy on April 04, 1997 at 13:00:20: The north shore line hasn't been used in a number of years. From what I've heard, the line is in fairly poor shape and some of the tracks in New Jersey may no longer be intact. It probably could be reopened with some cost and effort, but as far as I know there haven't been any serious proposals toward that end.
  - Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
  - Message Number: 754215
  - Posted by: Gary Jacobi
  - Date: Mon Apr 7 11:07:01 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]SIRR to NYC posted by Blaise Dupuy on April 04, 1997 at 13:00:20: The SIRR was originally a property of the B&O railroad, who hoped to use it as their entrance to NYC, but none of the schemes panned out. I believe I recall that a connection across or under The Narrows to Brooklyn was the missing link.
    - Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
    - Message Number: 754228
    - Posted by: John
    - Date: Mon Apr 7 16:41:23 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]SIRR to NYC posted by Blaise Dupuy on April 04, 1997 at 13:00:20: The tracks from Staten Island to New Jersey were never used by passenger trains. They are tracks used (seldomly, if not at all) by freight trains. In addition, even though the tracks link the Northeast Corridor, the tracks cannot be used by the SIRR because the tracks over the Kill Van Kull are not electrified and the NEC tracks are electrified with overhead catenary, not the third rail that the SIRR uses. Likewise, the SIRR tracks cannot be used by NJ Transit trains.
      - Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
      - Message Number: 754234
      - Posted by: Mark Greenwald
      - Date: Mon Apr 7 20:50:07 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Gary Jacobi on April 07, 1997 at 11:07:01: SIRR to Brooklyn under the narrows? Yup, that was what they said was supposed to happen according to the book "Uptown-Downtown", assumably it would've connected with the "R" at Fort Hamilton--the closest point, I believe.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754245
        Posted by: Charles Fiori
        Date: Tue Apr 8 12:02:57 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Mark Greenwald on April 07, 1997 at 20:50:07: Check the south end of platform at 59th Street-4th Avenue. There is a 'ramp' which goes off to one side and ends, which would have been the connection to SIRR. There was some thought about compatibility of rolling stock, witness the second hand SIRR cars running on the BMT, which matched up nicely with the Standards.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754248
        Posted by: Dan Weissmann
        Date: Tue Apr 8 14:15:06 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Mark Greenwald on April 07, 1997 at 20:50:07: I read somewhere that the tunnel runs out about 100 feet under the narrows and was thwarted only by a mayor who had a grudge against the BMT. I think he was an ex-motorman who felt he'd been unjustly fired and never forgave the BMT. Not sure of how true this is, though.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754281
        Posted by: Andrew
        Date: Thu Apr 10 17:58:21 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Peter Rosa on April 04, 1997 at 22:06:06: I can confirm the condition of the line as being unusable. There are actually points where the roadbed has been completely undermined, and the tracks are suspended over air! However, the SIRT station at Richmond Terrace still exists, though there isn't much to see unless you break in. Also, one can speculate if the name of 'Sailors Snug Harbor' was engraved in the stone facing northward for the benefit of the railroad, or for ships... (Just in case you didn't know, the line along the north shore was one of two branches that used to have passenger service, third rail and all. The north shore line was deelectrified, the other (I forgot where it went, but it branched off from the current main line) was demolished.)
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754367
        Posted by: Peter Gray
        Date: Thu Apr 17 01:54:04 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Andrew on April 10, 1997 at 17:58:21: I'm amazed at all the interest in Staten Island's rapid transit. 'Sailors Snug Harbor' was a station in front of the home for retired sailors/seamen of the same name (on the inland side of Richmond Terrace), which survives as the Snug Harbor Cultural Center. There are a number of excellent Victorian revival buildings on the property, which had its own farm, and various workshops for the retired old salts. The last of the old sailors were relocated to a new home in South Carolina back around 1978 or 1980. Your're right about the condition of the line though - it's hanging over thin air (or over the Kill van Kull at times). Several stations still seem to be largely intact, though as you remarked, not much to see from legal vantage points. Though there was never connecting passenger service to New Jersey by the B&O, apparently some special passenger train service did occasionally come in from New Jersey. My mother told me that the King & Queen of England came up from Washington D.C. (visiting Roosevelt) on the B&O around 1936 and that their 'royal' train came across the Arthur Kill and along the North Shore Line to St. George. This story always puzzled me though, because they could have more easily taken the train directly into Penn Station in Manhattan, which I assume was their ultimate destination.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754378
        Posted by: Andrew Huie
        Date: Thu Apr 17 21:30:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Peter Gray on April 17, 1997 at 01:54:04: Who knows? Perhaps the B&O was chosen to be the transport for the king queen. Anybody familiar with B&O history care to confirm? Even though the SIRT might not look like much, it does have an interesting history, especially since it is not well known in NYC.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754465
        Posted by: Peter Gray
        Date: Mon Apr 21 21:44:56 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Andrew Huie on April 17, 1997 at 21:30:36: I did some additional checking & found the King & Queen of England story was wrong... But, as you said, SIRT still has an interesting history.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754575
        Posted by: Dan
        Date: Mon Apr 28 08:18:28 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Andrew Huie on April 17, 1997 at 21:30:36: I like the King and Queen story. I read someplace that dring WW2 Winston Churchill came to US, arriving at Stapleton.A special train took him to Washington,DC via the North Shore line. It's plausible because at that time arriving in Staten Island would not have attracted as much attention as arriving in Manhattan.
        
        Subject: Re: SIRR to NYC
        Message Number: 754576
        Posted by: Dan
        Date: Mon Apr 28 08:26:14 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: SIRR to NYC posted by Peter Gray on April 17, 1997 at 01:54:04: What remains of the "Sailor's Snug Harbor" station should still be visible. You used to be able to walk down (carefully) stairs leading to the tracks. The station name is on the wall immediately to your left. A metal barrier has been installed across the top of the stairs now, making it inacessable.

Thread title: Grand Central Restoration (754179)
Started on Fri Apr 4 19:11:29 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: Grand Central Restoration
Message Number: 754179
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Fri Apr 4 19:11:29 1997

Does anyone know of a web page or web pages that has information on the announced restoration of Grand Central Terminal,that includes article or articles and possibly photos?
- Subject: Re: Grand Central Restoration
- Message Number: 754242
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Tue Apr 8 09:24:33 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Grand Central Restoration posted by Bryan Layne on April 04, 1997 at 19:11:29: Not a web site, but I just saw a book about this at New York Bound Bookstore in Rockefeller Center. I don't remember the exact title but it was about the architecture of GCT, some of it concentrated on the recent renovations and some was historical pictures. It's about a 12"x12" color glossy book, so if you give them a call I'm sure they'll know what you're talking about. --Dave

Thread title: Old Mitchell Field ROW (was Quiz) (754186)
Started on Sat Apr 5 16:31:08 1997, by Philip Nasadowski

Subject: Old Mitchell Field ROW (was Quiz)
Message Number: 754186
Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
Date: Sat Apr 5 16:31:08 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: More on LIRR Queens abandoned platforms and a QUIZ! posted by Bob Andersen on April 05, 1997 at 12:58:28: Yes, it WAS a station!! It was the origional Garden City stop. That ROW goes to Mitchell field, and is cut off by some major road. Now, I think this was in use as the Mitchell field run. Incedently, the tracks are still intact to Mitchell field (breaking off right after the current Garden city stop) and are STILL in use!!! When the RBB&B circus is in town, they park the train over behind Roosevelt field. Now, why the LIRR doesn't build a station over to Roosevelt field. The bulk of the trackage is there (right up to the boarder of it), and it might help ease the obnoxious congestion in the area (plus pull in people from the city which is probbly why it'll never happen) Anyway, It is interesting to note that the third rail runs for a few hundred after the switch off of the hempstead branch. I think it once ran to mitchell field, but i don't know.

Thread title: R21/22 Paint scheme (754187)
Started on Sat Apr 5 22:40:30 1997, by Pat Villani

Subject: R21/22 Paint scheme
Message Number: 754187
Posted by: Pat Villani
Date: Sat Apr 5 22:40:30 1997

I just recently purchased a set of IRT R21 HO scale kits and I'm about to start modeling a fictional shuttle that runs part elevated and part underground. I remeber two paint schemes, a dark grey (or was it a dirty green) and a blue and white in the late seventies. Were there any other colors used on these cars? Pat
- Subject: Re: R21/22 Paint scheme
- Message Number: 754191
- Posted by: David Steckler
- Date: Sun Apr 6 12:07:16 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]R21/22 Paint scheme posted by Pat Villani on April 05, 1997 at 22:40:30: In the early 1980's, R21's were painted white. When rebuilt, I believe they were painted red.
  - Subject: Re: R21/22 Paint scheme
  - Message Number: 754198
  - Posted by: John
  - Date: Sun Apr 6 20:21:48 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: R21/22 Paint scheme posted by David Steckler on April 06, 1997 at 12:07:16: There were a few different colors that the R-21 (and other cars) wore. In the 1960s, a standard color was a very dark green, almost an olive color. Also another 1960s color was an all-red scheme, similar to the current color, but brighter. In the 1970s, the scheme was changed to silver with the MTA blue band running along the lower side of the car. Many trains were white-washed in the late '70s and '80s as a measure to reduce graffitti, and the current scheme is a dark red with a silver top. TIP: Watch the movie "The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three". The hijacked train is an R-21 train with the silver and blue colors.
    - Subject: Re: R21/22 Paint scheme
    - Message Number: 754221
    - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
    - Date: Mon Apr 7 12:44:04 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: R21/22 Paint scheme posted by John on April 06, 1997 at 20:21:48: The R-21's did indeed have many color schemes, but they never did receive the current red scheme that is currently used. When they were retired some of them were white while others were in the MTA Blue & Silver colors.
      - Subject: Re: R21/22 Paint scheme
      - Message Number: 754222
      - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
      - Date: Mon Apr 7 12:49:24 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]R21/22 Paint scheme posted by Pat Villani on April 05, 1997 at 22:40:30: The R21/22's never did receive the current red color scheme. When they were retired some were white and others were MTA Blue & Silver.
        
        Subject: Re: R21/22 Paint scheme
        Message Number: 754326
        Posted by: Frank
        Date: Mon Apr 14 07:58:39 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]R21/22 Paint scheme posted by Pat Villani on April 05, 1997 at 22:40:30: The R21-22 cars were originally painted a dark olive green, "kale green" which can be modeled by using "pullman green" paint. Scalecoat II is very close. In the late sixties, early seventies they were the MTA scheme of platinum mist (silver) and blue. Floquil makes a platinum mist paint, and their "Conrail" blue is a good match for the Images Replicas blue decals. In the eigthies, the cars received the white scheme in an effort to reduce graffiti. The end safety gates, anticlimbers and rub strip below the doors were black however. Only one car, R-21 No. 7075 made it to the rehab GREEN scheme. NO cars were ever painted in the rehab RED.

Thread title: homeless people (754189)
Started on Sun Apr 6 03:16:41 1997, by dick

Subject: homeless people
Message Number: 754189
Posted by: dick
Date: Sun Apr 6 03:16:41 1997

is there any news out there on how the homeless are doing , they say they got rid of them. letn a mid west dork know how they did it.
- Subject: Re: homeless people
- Message Number: 754192
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Sun Apr 6 14:18:24 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]homeless people posted by dick on April 06, 1997 at 03:16:41: Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth. The subway homeless population is growing every day. They proliferate such lines as the A, D, E & F trains every night to the point where the stench in some cars is so intollerable, paying customers are forced to flee to others cars. They don't bathe, they urinate and deficate in cars and stations, both. They carry their stinking belongings in plastic bags and carts. Some sleep in mezzanines, on station benches or right on the platforms. The City of NY has done little to resolve the problem and in reality, little can be done. These are individuals who are non-functional and in many cases, mentally ill. The outreach programs pick them up but the subways are more desireable than the shelters that they are taken to. So they return, night after night. Ultimately their plight is to die of illness, as a crime victim or under the wheels of a train, while trying to retrieve a soda can for the 5 cent deposit.
  - Subject: Re: homeless people
  - Message Number: 754194
  - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
  - Date: Sun Apr 6 16:12:52 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by Jim on April 06, 1997 at 14:18:24: Yeah, I've noticed lots of them, mostly on the A/C/E. For some reason, they don't seem to like the numbers much, I almost never see them on the 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/9 It seems that every time I take the A/C/E, I end up hearing a "sales pitch" from a "homeless, jobless, shell shocked Vietnam (sp?) Vet" That line is getting real old, real quick.... Also, anyone notice that the rats are back on those lines too?
    - Subject: Re: homeless people
    - Message Number: 754216
    - Posted by: dick
    - Date: Mon Apr 7 11:09:09 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: homeless people posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 06, 1997 at 16:12:52: i'm from wisconsin, i had achance to visit new york a few years back. the city really impressed me. I was surprised to see so many homeless people. in fact i went to the library and picked up several books on the subway people who lived below the subway. have any of you on the net ever been down below the subway to see the mole people. what was your impression? too bad the subways were not cleaned up or the city could make millions more on tourism.
      - Subject: Re: homeless people
      - Message Number: 754217
      - Posted by: Mark Feinman
      - Date: Mon Apr 7 12:10:30 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by dick on April 07, 1997 at 11:09:09: The "mole people" and the book of the same name were recently discussed in the nyc.transit newsgroup. Basically, the consensus of opinion was that the book highly exaggerated reailty in an attempt to sell more books. I haven't read the book myself so I can't comment on it more specifically.
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754220
        Posted by: Wayne Johnson
        Date: Mon Apr 7 12:39:55 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 06, 1997 at 16:12:52: It seems that the homeless people tend to sleep on the trains that are assigned to routes that run most (or all) of their route underground.
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754224
        Posted by: David Pirmann
        Date: Mon Apr 7 13:08:56 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by Mark Feinman on April 07, 1997 at 12:10:30: Joe Brennan wrote an essay more or less debunking the Mole People book as fantasy based on rumor. See [7]Fantasy in "The Mole People". --dave
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754227
        Posted by: Gary Jacobi
        Date: Mon Apr 7 16:04:41 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: homeless people posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 06, 1997 at 16:12:52: Even after 30 years away, I can explain the homeless' aversion to the 'NUMBERS' (ex IRT). The longitudinal seating is almost impossible to sleep on without being obvious, whereas every transverse seat has a spot you can wedge yourself into and appear to only have your eyes shut for the moment!
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754235
        Posted by: Peter Rosa
        Date: Mon Apr 7 21:45:29 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by Wayne Johnson on April 07, 1997 at 12:39:55: If the homeless prefer routes that are mainly underground, that might help explain why there are fewer of them on IRT lines (in addition to the difficulty of sleeping on IRT-style longitudinal seating). All of the IRT lines seems to have substantial elevated stretches. Come to think of it, I've heard that the E tends to have the largest homeless population of any line - and with the exception of the R (and the 42nd Street shuttle, which hardly counts), the E is the only line that's underground for its entire length.
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754240
        Posted by: David Pirmann
        Date: Tue Apr 8 09:23:05 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by Peter Rosa on April 07, 1997 at 21:45:29: The "C" is underground also. The R and G come pretty close to being entirely underground as well. -dave
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754247
        Posted by: dick
        Date: Tue Apr 8 12:46:34 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: homeless people posted by David Pirmann on April 07, 1997 at 13:08:56: THANKS FOR THE LODOWN ON THE MOLE PEOPLE. IT WAS VEREY INTERESTING. I WAS ONLY TO NEW YORK TWO TIMES AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE! I HOPE TO GO BACK. BY THE WAY, I PUT SUB TALK ON MY FAVORITES LIST. ITS GREAT.
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754283
        Posted by: GUMPSTER
        Date: Thu Apr 10 21:18:27 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: homeless people posted by dick on April 08, 1997 at 12:46:34: I THINK ITS GREAT THAT WE AS AMERICANS ARE EMPTYING OUT THE WELFARE ROLLS AND MENTAL HOSPITALS.HOWEVER UNLESSWE ARE PREPARED FOR THE THIRD WORLD LOOK THAT UNDISCIPLINED BUDGET CUTTING WILL CERTAINLY BRING THEN LETS ALL GET USED TO A FAST GROWING POPULATION OF HOMELESS PEOPLE.
        
        Subject: Re: homeless people
        Message Number: 754366
        Posted by: Liam O'Suilebhain
        Date: Thu Apr 17 01:39:03 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: homeless people posted by Jim on April 06, 1997 at 14:18:24: The homeless in the New York subway are disgusting. Most of them should be in mental institutions, but given the American preference for chaotic freedom, they are allowed to roam the underground at will, polluting it and helping to perpetuate the NY Subway's reputation for filth and danger. Sure the people are pathetic & in need of help, but that doesn't mean passengers on their way to work or school should have to put up with them. No other subway system in the world would tolerate what New Yorkers think is just part of the daily routine.

Thread title: Subway car number plates (754193)
Started on Sun Apr 6 15:55:59 1997, by Michael Azzollini

Subject: Subway car number plates
Message Number: 754193
Posted by: Michael Azzollini
Date: Sun Apr 6 15:55:59 1997

I've noticed that on many subway cars there's a smaller decal(or sticker) affixed to the car side just below the number plate. It's the same lenght as the number plate but only 3 or 4 inches high, as compared to the 12 inches or so for the number plates. I've seen them in yellow, orange, and in black with orange diamonds on them. Does anyone know the meaning of these decals?
- Subject: Re: Subway car number plates
- Message Number: 754197
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Sun Apr 6 17:52:17 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Subway car number plates posted by Michael Azzollini on April 06, 1997 at 15:55:59: The colors, in and of themself are meaningless. The decals are put on the cars to indicate that certain modifications have been completed. This method is used especially when the modification makes cars of the same class not 100% compatible. The reflective tape is so yard dispatchers, when making up their trains, do not put non-compatible equipment together.
  - Subject: Re: Subway car number plates
  - Message Number: 754206
  - Posted by: David Pirmann
  - Date: Sun Apr 6 22:47:56 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway car number plates posted by Steve on April 06, 1997 at 17:52:17: Are you sure? I heard someplace that the stickers indicate the yard at which the car is kept and maintained. --Dave.
    - Subject: Re: Subway car number plates
    - Message Number: 754207
    - Posted by: Steve
    - Date: Sun Apr 6 22:56:53 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway car number plates posted by David Pirmann on April 06, 1997 at 22:47:56: Perhaps in the 'A' division (IRT) but definitely not so in the 'B' division (BMT/IND). Car fleet assignments change so frequently, color-coding the cars would be impractical. Recently, to accommodate such a change, Pitkin Yd. sent 20 R-32s to Jamaica Yd. Jamaica Yd. sent 20 R-32s to Coney Island. East NY sent 4 R-40s to Coney Island and Coney Island sent 12 R-68s to the Concourse Yd.
      - Subject: Re: Subway car number plates
      - Message Number: 754218
      - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
      - Date: Mon Apr 7 12:34:30 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway car number plates posted by Steve on April 06, 1997 at 17:52:17: The decals does indeed indicate the yard assignment for equipment on the A-division. The decal for equipment modifications in progress is usually under the yard assignment decal (if the car(s) have one), and it usually circular or diamond shaped.

Thread title: Stairway Kiosks (754196)
Started on Sun Apr 6 17:07:57 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: Stairway Kiosks
Message Number: 754196
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Sun Apr 6 17:07:57 1997

I remember reading a while back(cant remember wear or when) that the MTA was planning on replacing several tacky,ugly and outdated subway station kiosks with those that look very much like the Astor Place kiosks.Is this accurate or im I thinking of something else?

Thread title: Light rail connection to JFK (754204)
Started on Sun Apr 6 21:01:23 1997, by Ted Nielsen

Subject: Light rail connection to JFK
Message Number: 754204
Posted by: Ted Nielsen
Date: Sun Apr 6 21:01:23 1997

Where can I get information on the proposed light rail link between JFK and the LIRR Jamaica station ? I had no success when I contacted the Port Authority. Does anyone know if the line will be extended to Manhattan ?
- Subject: Re: Light rail connection to JFK
- Message Number: 754213
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Mon Apr 7 09:24:35 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Light rail connection to JFK posted by Ted Nielsen on April 06, 1997 at 21:01:23: You might find the NYC Dept. of Planning or the State Dept. of Transportation BUT I doubt that anyone has a firm plan yet. Sounds like election year rhetoric.
  - Subject: Re: Light rail connection to JFK
  - Message Number: 754408
  - Posted by: Dave L.
  - Date: Sun Apr 20 15:46:52 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Light rail connection to JFK posted by Ted Nielsen on April 06, 1997 at 21:01:23: There was a piece about this in the Times recently. The current (Pataki) plan is for a loop serving all JFK terminals; the turns and grades involved would be too sharp for current subway and LIRR trains, but the city is demanding that the line be strong enough for heavy rail in case nimbler cars should come into use; only then could there be direct service t/f Manhattan. The line would be elevated on pylons in the Van Wyck median and enter Jamaica Station from the west. A spur would go to the long-term parking lot and the Howard Beach A station. The city also wants a subway spur from Astoria or Qns Bvd. to LGA, but even so there wouldn't be any LGA-JFK route.

Thread title: Why no paint on R42 and R46? (754232)
Started on Mon Apr 7 19:16:04 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: Why no paint on R42 and R46?
Message Number: 754232
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Mon Apr 7 19:16:04 1997

As much as I like them without the paint,why was the original blue stripe taking off?
- Subject: Re: Why no paint on R42 and R46?
- Message Number: 754244
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Tue Apr 8 10:15:44 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Why no paint on R42 and R46? posted by Bryan Layne on April 07, 1997 at 19:16:04: Bryan, I don't know the reason for the TA removing the blue paint. My guess is one of two things: either the TA just decided to change to no paint exterior or it may be a cost cutting measure or both. Actually, all of the rebuilt stainless steel cars had paint on them at some point. I did like the blue paint on the exteriors, but I also like the unpainted stainless steel appearance.

Thread title: Which Subway? (754236)
Started on Mon Apr 7 22:18:14 1997, by S. L. Moss

Subject: Which Subway?
Message Number: 754236
Posted by: S. L. Moss
Date: Mon Apr 7 22:18:14 1997

Which subway station has the electronic music that plays when you touch it? Is it at 34th and 6th? I saw a story on it on CBS Sunday morning show several months ago but missed a part of it and don't know where that subway is. Does someone know? Thanks.
- Subject: Re: Which Subway?
- Message Number: 754239
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Tue Apr 8 09:20:39 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Which Subway? posted by S. L. Moss on April 07, 1997 at 22:18:14: it was the 34th Street station on the N,R (technically broadway not 6th Ave). Not sure if the installation is still there, though. --Dave

Thread title: IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors (754243)
Started on Tue Apr 8 09:31:30 1997, by Steve

Subject: IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors
Message Number: 754243
Posted by: Steve
Date: Tue Apr 8 09:31:30 1997

For all that are interested, these are the colors assighned to the various IRT yards. East 180th St. ..... Green 239th St. ............. Black Jerome ................ Orange Livonia ................ Blue Corona ................ Maroon 240th St. ............. Red Pelham ................ Yellow
- Subject: Re: IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors
- Message Number: 754470
- Posted by: John
- Date: Tue Apr 22 10:36:16 1997
  
  In Reply to: [5]IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors posted by Steve on April 08, 1997 at 09:31:30: Is what you're referring to those colored bars near the car numbers on the side of the subway trains?
  - Subject: Re: IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors
  - Message Number: 754477
  - Posted by: Steve
  - Date: Tue Apr 22 17:07:35 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: IRT Yard Fleet Assignment Colors posted by John on April 22, 1997 at 10:36:16: Yes, but this applies ONLY to the IRT. The B division keeps track of which cars belong where by car number.

Thread title: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ??? (754249)
Started on Tue Apr 8 18:58:21 1997, by Steve

Subject: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ???
Message Number: 754249
Posted by: Steve
Date: Tue Apr 8 18:58:21 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: Why no paint on R42 and R46? posted by Wayne Johnson on April 08, 1997 at 10:15:44: All that you say may be true but why then was the stripe color on the R-44s changed from blue to grey ??? Hint: It had nothing to do with the Civil War.
- Subject: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ???
- Message Number: 754250
- Posted by: Zack
- Date: Tue Apr 8 19:27:40 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: Why no paint - Quiz ??? posted by Steve on April 08, 1997 at 18:58:21: greay was cheaper then blue
  - Subject: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ???
  - Message Number: 754251
  - Posted by: Zack
  - Date: Tue Apr 8 19:31:25 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: Why no paint - Quiz ??? posted by Steve on April 08, 1997 at 18:58:21: greay was cheaper then blue
    - Subject: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ???
    - Message Number: 754256
    - Posted by: ZACK
    - Date: Wed Apr 9 02:12:53 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: Why no paint - Quiz ??? posted by Zack on April 08, 1997 at 19:27:40: greay was a primer coat and easer to repaint in case of graffite
      - Subject: Re: Why no paint - Quiz ???
      - Message Number: 754265
      - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
      - Date: Wed Apr 9 17:54:27 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Why no paint - Quiz ??? posted by Steve on April 08, 1997 at 18:58:21: I don't know, but my guess is that it's possible that the material(s) used in the spot may not be stainless steel or some sort of alloy that needs to be painted. If this is true then I figure the light shade of gray would be the best choice to simulate a stainless steel (no paint) exterior. Hope I'm at least close.

Thread title: The R-11s History (754254)
Started on Tue Apr 8 23:00:32 1997, by Steve

Subject: The R-11s History
Message Number: 754254
Posted by: Steve
Date: Tue Apr 8 23:00:32 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: 2nd avenue subway posted by John on March 14, 1997 at 18:56:38: There were 10 R-11s built by the Budd Co. i n 1949 (Car #s 8010 - 8019). The average cost per car was $121,373. Although advanced for their time, they were not electrically compatible with other TA equipment. In the 1960s, they were rewired specifically to be compatible withthe 'new' R-32s. They were re-designated as R-34s. They finished up their service on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. Personally one of my two favorites (the other is the D type) One unit survives in the transit museum.

Thread title: New York Transit Museum (754257)
Started on Wed Apr 9 10:35:14 1997, by Jeff Crouchley

Subject: New York Transit Museum
Message Number: 754257
Posted by: Jeff Crouchley
Date: Wed Apr 9 10:35:14 1997

I'm a graduate student at New York University researching the New York Transit Museum in Brooklyn. I would be interested in feedback from anyone regarding the Transit Museum, eg. have you visited and what suggestions might you have for improving the museum and the public awareness of the museum. Also, have you visited other transit-related museums like London's. Thanks for your help!
- Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
- Message Number: 754259
- Posted by: Julio Perez
- Date: Wed Apr 9 13:47:51 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New York Transit Museum posted by Jeff Crouchley on April 09, 1997 at 10:35:14: The Museum could offer an on-line store where transit aficionados could purchase souvenirs via the Internet...?
  - Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
  - Message Number: 754260
  - Posted by: David Steckler
  - Date: Wed Apr 9 15:49:33 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: New York Transit Museum posted by Julio Perez on April 09, 1997 at 13:47:51: Great idea! But what are the odds of it happening? Probably slim to none.
    - Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
    - Message Number: 754269
    - Posted by: Mark Greenwald
    - Date: Wed Apr 9 21:04:34 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]New York Transit Museum posted by Jeff Crouchley on April 09, 1997 at 10:35:14: Jeff, I'm not from the NY Metro area so I'm not familiar with that transit museum, although I'd like to visit it someday. You had mentioned other cities and the mesuems they have to celebrate their history. I grew up in the Baltimore/ Washington area. Baltimore doesn't have a museum whatsoever so you have to fight tooth & nail to get items---They do have a B & O RR museum though. As for Washington, they don't have a separate museum per se, the Metro has devoted a section of their headquarters to act as a museum/ library. At one point, you could go downstairs and watch the computers track the trains on the different lines. Upstairs in the library, they had scale models of statons and track yards along with some freebies to help promote the system. I figure, for as new a system as Washington is (20 years), it's a start. If your cuirious, the headquartes is located at 5th & F Sts. NW right next to the Judiciary Square station on the Red Line.
      - Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
      - Message Number: 754298
      - Posted by: Bill Mosteller
      - Date: Fri Apr 11 14:00:33 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]New York Transit Museum posted by Jeff Crouchley on April 09, 1997 at 10:35:14: Thanks, Jeff, you've hit a topic near and dear to my heart. It's been a few years since I've visited the NYCTA Museum, but I love it and will return eagerly. Typically, I don't like static displays. Since I'm big on operating streetcar museums, I think of static displays as "preserved in amber." But the TA's museum's cars aren't like that. They're sitting on hot third rail, with fans, lights, and compressors powered. But for a motorman and a green signal, they could be off in an instant. I like that feeling very much. If your goal is successful interpretation (what was it like to sit in these trains), that's excellent. What I remember about visiting there is that it's harder to find than seems necessary; better signage would help. Typically, people who visit attractions like Williamsburg and Sea World remember the most connecting with someone there. In that regard, I remember that the transit museum is thinly populated. Perhaps one could bolster the staff with volunteers, particularly experienced retirees with good subway stories. I've also been to the London museum, and note that it is, I think, much larger. Their educational displays are more intricate, well thought out, and well done, but likely also more expensive. Their equipment is, I'm sorry to report, mostly preserved in amber. Not so many people there, either.
        
        Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
        Message Number: 754303
        Posted by: David Steckler
        Date: Fri Apr 11 16:51:17 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New York Transit Museum posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 21:04:34: The Illinois Railway Museum has a terrific collection of trolly, subway, el and interrurban equipment, running on a dedicated loop under wire. All the equipment is either restored and running or in the process of restoration - nothing in amber here! They have several Philadelphia subway cars awaiting restoration but nothing from the NY area. The museum's goal is to have representative pieces of equipement, both light rail and heavy rail, that ran in and around Chicago. They also have one of the best collections of running steam and particularly diesel equipment in the country (the only complete Burlington E-6 trainset in existence), running on their private ROW. If you saw the movie "A League of Their Own," the streamliner that Lori Petty, Gina Davis and Jon Lovitz rode from the ladies' home town station to the big city was this trainset. The museum is about an hour west of Chicago, off of I-90.
        
        Subject: Re: New York Transit Museum
        Message Number: 754339
        Posted by: Gary Jacobi
        Date: Mon Apr 14 14:29:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: New York Transit Museum posted by David Steckler on April 11, 1997 at 16:51:17: I see a possibility for a great service here. Will anyone with a "Review" of a Transit/Trolley/Railroad museum post it here for all to profit us all? Here is my contribution: California Railroad Museum, Sacramento. A beautiful facility, but not much that moves. If you visit, ask to see the equipment that is stored in the nearby yard, but which has not been restored. It includes the entire ATSF collection which used to be in Albuquerque. California Trolley Museum ( Now called Western RR Museum). Now these guys MOVE! A nice place to bring a picnic lunch and ride as many trolleys as you can. The number running depends on how many volunteers show up, which is seasonal and weather related. Kennebunkport Trolley Museum. Lots of Trolley rides, and lots more unrestored equipment. During the Reagan and Bush years, they seem to have received EVERYTHING the Pueblo test site had available. I also hear good things about the Portola Ca collection, and the Train Rides between Freemont and Sunol in the SF Bay area, but have not visited. There is also a good static display in Travel Town within Griffith Park in LA, with a live steam operation right next to it.

Thread title: SIGNAGE (754261)
Started on Wed Apr 9 15:58:15 1997, by Malcolm

Subject: SIGNAGE
Message Number: 754261
Posted by: Malcolm
Date: Wed Apr 9 15:58:15 1997

I'm from Toronto and regularly visit NYC. I'm interested in obtaining subway signage, especially signs with the circular coloured route symbols on them. Also, I would like to obtain a circular sign with the "M" on it before they are all covered up by the "pac-man" stickers. I'm willing to pay for these items, or trade for Toronto Transit Commission stuff (I have a basement full of crap, just name it, and I probably have it). If you can help, it would be much obliged. Malcolm
- Subject: Re: SIGNAGE
- Message Number: 754264
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Wed Apr 9 16:46:17 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]SIGNAGE posted by Malcolm on April 09, 1997 at 15:58:15: Me too,me too!!

Thread title: LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines (754262)
Started on Wed Apr 9 16:31:25 1997, by Michael Azzollini

Subject: LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines
Message Number: 754262
Posted by: Michael Azzollini
Date: Wed Apr 9 16:31:25 1997

I've pieced together information on the above lines from NYC Subway Resource's, as well as other internet sites, - however I still have some unanswered questions which someone might be able to answer. 1. Is the LIRR Bay Ridge (Freight) line still active, and if not, when was it abandoned. If it is still active, how mang trains pass through in a given time, or when was the last time it was used? I've traced the line from Bay Ridge to where it meets the Canarsie line and it seems that one single track is still intact the entire distance but usable only with some clean-up of debris. The rails are rusty most of the way except for a small portion at the far west end near the Bay Ridge terminus. 2. From about New Utrecht Ave to the Bay Ridge terminus, the two lines run together in what appears to be the same open cut. Were they built at the same time? Are these a single ROW on two ROW's coincidently running side by side? 3. I've noticed that in the same section mentioned above from New Utrecht Ave. to the Bay Ridge terminus, (but in other areas as well). The ROW seems to be in a "natural" cut through the Bay Ridge Area - rather than in a man-made open cut. Does anyone know if this the case, or was this done by the RR's to ease the grade climbs? 4. If anyone has a more comprehensive history of the LIRR Bay Ridge line I'd think it would make a nice addition to the NYC Subway Resources.
- Subject: Re: LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines
- Message Number: 754282
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Thu Apr 10 20:50:43 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines posted by Michael Azzollini on April 09, 1997 at 16:31:25: In his book _Flatbush Odyssey_, author Alan Abel recounts calling the LIRR in the Spring of 1993 and being told that there was still some limited freight service on the Bay Ridge line.
  - Subject: Re: LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines
  - Message Number: 754301
  - Posted by: Philip D.
  - Date: Fri Apr 11 14:43:28 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: LIRR Bay Ridge +Sea Beach lines posted by Peter Rosa on April 10, 1997 at 20:50:43: The Bay ridge line is still used. the line is a sort of branch line from N.J. to the Bronx. It goes over the hell gate bridge and joins the (what used to be)New Haven Main line. If you are interested there is an old Jade Green New York Central Box Car near 41 st and first ave. One person told me that 1 train passes through a day to the yard in queens. I do not know if that is true but the line is still active.

Thread title: Re: Underground lines (was: homeless people) (754266)
Started on Wed Apr 9 20:49:43 1997, by Peter Rosa

Subject: Re: Underground lines (was: homeless people)
Message Number: 754266
Posted by: Peter Rosa
Date: Wed Apr 9 20:49:43 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: homeless people posted by David Pirmann on April 08, 1997 at 09:23:05: Yep, the R and C are entirely underground as well. Though I can't remember from the one time I rode it, I have heard that there's one place on the R - I believe where it crossed the LIRR Bay Ridge line - where riders get at least a glimpse of sunlight (unless it's night !) In addition, it looks like the 3 and the Lefferts Boulevard-bound A are mostly underground. In contrast, I suspect that the 7 and the J/Z are the lines with the greatest percentages of their routes aboveground, excluding the Franklin Avenue and Rockaway Park shuttles.
- Subject: Re: Underground lines (was: homeless people)
- Message Number: 754288
- Posted by: Micdhael Azzollini
- Date: Thu Apr 10 22:58:29 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: Underground lines (was: homeless people) posted by Peter Rosa on April 09, 1997 at 20:49:43: Yes Peter, you're correct. The only point where some daylight can be seen from the R line is when it crosses over the Bay Ridge LIRR line just before entering the 59th Street Station. MIKE

Thread title: S.I.R.T. (754267)
Started on Wed Apr 9 20:55:25 1997, by Mark Greenwald

Subject: S.I.R.T.
Message Number: 754267
Posted by: Mark Greenwald
Date: Wed Apr 9 20:55:25 1997

I recently acquired a map showing the Staten Island transit line (I live near DC) and was wondering, when they designed the line, why did they purposely send it down the eastern side of the island? Wouldn't logic have sent two lines down, one on the east and one on the west? Was a western line in the planning stages but never built? I'm curious about NYC's other subway.
- Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
- Message Number: 754270
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Wed Apr 9 21:22:39 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: There weren't any lines built down the west side of Staten Island because that area was relatively sparsely populated until the Verrazano Narrows bridge opened in the 1960s. Even today, it's less populated that the east side of the island.
  - Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
  - Message Number: 754277
  - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
  - Date: Thu Apr 10 12:48:33 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: Peter, I believe that line was originally a freight line (I could be wrong), but I do know that not many people live on the western side of the island. In fact the NYC landfill is over there, and if I were a S.I. resident I would definitely stay on the eastern part. The Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority (Now call Staten Island Railway) is an arm under the MTA, which is the state agency that operates most mass transit in the NYC region. The MTA agencies are: New York City Transit (formally New York City Transit Authority) which operates the subway in Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens as well as most local service in the 5 boroughs and some express service also. Long Island Rail Road - Commuter train service between Long Island and NYC. Metro North Rail Road - Commuter train service between Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester counties, Connecticut and NYC. Long Island Bus (Formally Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority) Bus servies on Long Island with service feeding subway terminals in Queens. Bridges & Tunnels (formally Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority) Several toll bridges and tunnels throughout NYC.
    - Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
    - Message Number: 754289
    - Posted by: Michael Azzollini
    - Date: Thu Apr 10 23:10:52 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Wayne Johnson on April 10, 1997 at 12:48:33: Does anyone know why the MTA changed the name from the New York City Transit Authority(NYCTA) to the New York City Transit(NYCT)?
      - Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
      - Message Number: 754293
      - Posted by: Steve
      - Date: Fri Apr 11 08:14:50 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: The lower deck of the Verrazanno Narrows Bridge was added to the original bridge plans. From the beginning, it was to include two tracks to link the Staten Island Railway with the subway at 95th Street/4th Ave. However, Robert Moses, one of the most powerful people in NYC history and a man who hated public transit, stopped the project.
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754300
        Posted by: Philip D.
        Date: Fri Apr 11 14:34:18 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: A western line was built and used for Passenger AND freight service. Passenger service on the western side ended sometime between 1945-65. The line is still used for freight. There was also a third line. it was on the eastern side of the island and was called the south shore line.
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754304
        Posted by: Mark Greenwald
        Date: Fri Apr 11 19:29:53 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Steve on April 11, 1997 at 08:14:50: Now I know that the lower level of the V.N. Bridge is used for vehicular traffic, but, do you think that the idea of connecting the lines could be revived?
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754312
        Posted by: steve
        Date: Sat Apr 12 03:09:49 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 11, 1997 at 19:29:53: Of course the connection could be made but NY residents have lost their taste for huge public works projects. A similar proposal was made for a subway link over the George Washington Bridge to New Jersey. The tunnel was actually built, virtually to the foot of the bridge. Once again, the lower deck of the bridge was built with the intent to use it for mass transit but once built, the plan was shelved. The tunnel is supposed to still be in tact and this would be a far more viable project.
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754323
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Sun Apr 13 19:09:11 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Philip D. on April 11, 1997 at 14:34:18: Service on the North Shore line AND the South Beach Line ended in 1953. Freight on the NS remained, but the SB was entirely abandoned. The MTA-Staten Island Railway (new name as of 1993) is NOT a subway, except for the portion at St. George Terminal which is underground.
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754338
        Posted by: Gary Jacobi
        Date: Mon Apr 14 14:01:46 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by steve on April 12, 1997 at 03:09:49: Much as I miss it being around to enjoy, the bitter truth seems to be that Transit and Suspension bridges don't mix very well. When BART was first planned, tracks were still in place on the lower deck of the SF Bay bridge. Nevertheless, a tunnel was built for BART right next to the bridge, and the lower deck converted to automotive traffic. You can still see the remains of the overhead wiring. The only Suspension bridge that appears to be holding up under Transit/Railroad loads is the Williamsburg, which in fact is a hybrid type of bridge; the side spans are NOT suspension, and as a result it is far stiffer than a full suspension bridge would be. Take a look at it; there are cables over the side spans, but they hang straight, not curved under any load!
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754365
        Posted by: Peter Gray
        Date: Thu Apr 17 01:30:29 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: Mark: Looks like your inquiry on S.I.R.T. has been well answered. Actually, info on this website informs me passenger operations were ended on the North Shore line (St. George - Arlington [Port Ivory]) & South Shore Line in 1952. Freight service continued on the North Shore Line until around 1990. I hear talk about reviving it, but parts of the tracks are already hanging precariously over the Kill van Kull. If they wait much longer the right of way will be gone. I grew up on Staten Island and in the 1960's remember seeing the abandoned stations on the North Shore Line (especially the Richmond Avenue Station; the platforms & stairs up to them were there as of mid 1960's; maybe still are now) and the open cut South Shore Line station at Major Avenue (Arrochar). Again, the platforms & right-of-way was still there, though a big piece of it was devoured by the Verrazano Bridge toll plaza. My folks tell me that the three train lines were extremely well integrated with a network of trolleys - also long-gone (anybody have any info about Staten Island trolleys?). There was never any train line on the west side of the island (facing New Jersey) which was mostly marshland & was sparsely populated, (today it's mostly garbage dump and rows of ugly box houses). A ferry existed between Tottenville and Perth Amboy in New Jersey from colonial times until sometime early in this century (anybody know when it stopped?); in the mid-1960's the mouldering slips were still there. The ferry was across the street from the Tottenville S.I.R.T. terminus. Of course, now that Staten Island's population is four times what it was in the 1940's, there's less public transportation than ever, and apparently none in the works. The stupidity of city planners & the love affair with the automobile have taken a heavy toll. By the way, your Tokyo map is in the works...
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754496
        Posted by: Andy Dunleavy
        Date: Wed Apr 23 13:09:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Peter Gray on April 17, 1997 at 01:30:29: The North Shore freight line brought coal to the Atrhur Kill generating plant of Con Edison until the early 1980s until coal was replaced with oil that was delivered by barge to the plant. The plant is currently out of service but the property still has a track running to it.
        
        Subject: Re: S.I.R.T.
        Message Number: 754534
        Posted by: Dan
        Date: Fri Apr 25 08:30:06 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]S.I.R.T. posted by Mark Greenwald on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:25: The South Shore line is the only branch currently in operation. It runs from the St.George Ferry Terminal south to Tottenville, roughly parallel to Raritan Bay/Atlantic Ocean.Railroad crossings were totally eliminated in 1968. The North Shore line ran from St.George west to Arlington (South Ave.), passenger service was discontinued in 1953, but freight service ran into the early 1980's. The stations are still there, but in great disrepair. NYC has purchased this line and is going to re-habilitate it for freight use, including the decrepit Arthur Kill bridge (north of the Goethals Bridge on I-278). The South Beach line ran from St.George southeast to South Beach (near Sand Lane and Capodanno Blvd.) until 1953. The right of way is no longer extant, many sections having been sold to housing developers.

Thread title: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three (754268)
Started on Wed Apr 9 20:55:42 1997, by John

Subject: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
Message Number: 754268
Posted by: John
Date: Wed Apr 9 20:55:42 1997

This is a really good movie. If you are interested in the New York Subway, you should definately watch it. The movie is about 4 people who hijack a New York Subway train (a number 6 train - "Pelham One-Two-Three"), and take the passengers in the first car hostage. They demand one-million dollars from the city for the release of the car and the hostages. Great thrill ride at the end when the car becomes a runaway and is sent to the South Ferry loop from near the 23rd St. Station.
- Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
- Message Number: 754271
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Thu Apr 10 09:39:54 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by John on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:42: No doubt this is a great movie----One thing I found interesting was that the number "one-two-three" referred to the time departed Pelham. Two other movies that have a lot of subway footage are "The Money Train" with Wesley Snipes--not bad--lotsa action, "The Warriors", I love this movie that centers around a street gang trying to get to their home "turf" (coney Is.) from a convention of gangs in the Bronx---their only means of transport---you guessed it--the subway.
  - Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
  - Message Number: 754272
  - Posted by: David Pirmann
  - Date: Thu Apr 10 11:05:29 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Mark Greenwald on April 10, 1997 at 09:39:54: Couplea things... Pelham One Two Three is still in print in case you want to go out and buy a copy. Some other movies with subway scenes: "Die Hard with a Vengence"... I caught the end of some Al Pacino movie on TV a few weeks ago, it might have been Serpico, that had a scene on the subway using IND R27/R30 cars that they used to get to Grand Central Terminal (oops :-). Ghostbusters II has some sets based on City Hall Station (the river of slime).
    - Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
    - Message Number: 754273
    - Posted by: Ben-Zion Cassouto
    - Date: Thu Apr 10 12:24:10 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 11:05:29: Forget all these recent train movies... A movie with "real" trains is "The Incident" -- a grade B movie that takes place on IRT LO-V cars riding the 3rd Avenue EL! How's that?
      - Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
      - Message Number: 754275
      - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
      - Date: Thu Apr 10 12:30:27 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by John on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:42: John, Mark and anyone else: Yes, all NYCTA revenue subway trains are identified by their point of origin and the time it departed. Many times a train operator will identify him/herself with the time/route and origin. (Ex. Command center this is the 7:55 dog (D train) out of 205th Street) (Canal Street (tower) this is the northbound 4:35 Nancy (N train)). I was laways curious, but never did inquire about whether the TA has scheduled a Pelham 123 since the movie was released.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754276
        Posted by: David M. Razler
        Date: Thu Apr 10 12:45:07 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 11:05:29: The book also contains much more detail on the system and shows the author did his homework!
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754278
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Thu Apr 10 14:42:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Wayne Johnson on April 10, 1997 at 12:30:27: The 'D' train is currently referred to as Delta and not dog.....
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754279
        Posted by: steve
        Date: Thu Apr 10 14:49:27 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by John on April 09, 1997 at 20:55:42: Every year, many movies are filmed in the subway system. Most notably, several months ago, scenes from "The Lost World" (the sequel to Jurassic Park) was filmed at the Church Avenue Station using R-46 equipment.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754284
        Posted by: Michael Adler
        Date: Thu Apr 10 21:25:46 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 11:05:29: Hi all, I wonder because the last time I watched The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three was 10 years ago which I didn't have closed captioning decoder and I know that movie didn't have "CC". I like to know if they still sell it and do they have Closed Captioning? I watched, but can not understand anything they say, I need CC ready tape that way I can understand everything. Most boxes show "CC" or dialog logo with CC inside, let me know if you see them. Thanks, Michael Adler Lakewood, ColorFUL Colorado
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754286
        Posted by: GUMPSTER
        Date: Thu Apr 10 21:37:41 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Ben-Zion Cassouto on April 10, 1997 at 12:24:10: DEAR SIR, ARE YOU IN ANY WAY ,SHAPE,OR FORM,SUGGESTING THAT SUBWAYS DO NOT USE 'REAL' TRAINS???
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754287
        Posted by: David Pirmann
        Date: Thu Apr 10 22:23:19 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Michael Adler on April 10, 1997 at 21:25:46: Mike, My tape of Pelham 1-2-3 is closed-captioned (well it says so on the tape, my TV is too old to show them though). It's MGM/UA ISBN 0-7928-3060-1, and the code on the side of the box is M205814. Released 1996 this edition. --Dave
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754292
        Posted by: Philip Is the graffitti back or is it the pot? Nasadowski
        Date: Mon Jun 16 21:37:01 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Michael Adler on April 10, 1997 at 21:25:46: Of COURSE the movie doesn't have "CC", it's the taking of PELHAM 123, and we all know that the 6 is an IRT line and the CC was one of those other ones... :-) *duck* (Sorry, it's 4 am and I'm in a punny mood :-)
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754321
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Sun Apr 13 18:51:28 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Steve on April 10, 1997 at 14:42:10: If D is Delta, what are all the other trains called?
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754322
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Sun Apr 13 18:56:05 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 11:05:29: The Al Pacino movie was Carlito's Way, and those were IRT Redbirds (or at least they were supposed to be), as their markings said South Ferry and Broadway Thru Exp. (oops :-D)
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754324
        Posted by: David Pirmann
        Date: Sun Apr 13 20:58:27 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by MJS on April 13, 1997 at 18:56:05: Hmm, I tried to count the doors. I would swear they had 4 per side. :)
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754334
        Posted by: Mark S Feinman
        Date: Mon Apr 14 12:55:43 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 22:23:19: Out of curiosity, how much did it cost for the tape? --Mark
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754346
        Posted by: Frank Gatazka
        Date: Tue Apr 15 08:32:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Ben-Zion Cassouto on April 10, 1997 at 12:24:10: Not only does the film feature Low-V's, they're World's Fair Steinways! The film ostensibly depicts the Jerome Avenue Line, but you are correct, the actual location is the old Third Avenue El (Bronx). This was no doubt used since, at the time the movie was made, this line was closed at night and thus made filming easier. Note the quick change to R types as the train enters the subway portals at Westchester Avenue on the White Plains Road Line! By the way, the movie is not considered a "B" movie. Film buffs praise it's gritty frankness, which for it's time was very "cutting edge". This was the film debut for Martin Sheen and Tony Musante and the film also features a VERY YOUNG, comely Donna Mills! Ed McMahon does a credible job in a dramatic role too! You might also enjoy "The Wrong Man" with Henry Fonda featuring R-1/9's as well as R-15's on the Corona Line, "The House on Carrol Street" with Mandy Patinkin and Kelly McGillis which features R-10's at Hudson Street Station on the Liberty Avenue El and Acacia Cemetery plus some great scenes in Grand Central Station (this really is an EXCELLENT period piece set in the fifties, though filmed in the eighties, and should have won an award for accuracy in set decoration. If you are a classic car buff, you'll also love it!), and "The Bachelor Party" with Eli Wallach. This one features BMT Standards on the 14th Street-Canarsie Line.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754384
        Posted by: JOHN
        Date: Fri Apr 18 21:15:44 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 13, 1997 at 20:58:27: Know what? If they were R-27/R-30s, they probably did. Know something else? Those cars were NEVER used on IRT lines (they are designed for the BMT/IND lines). Those cars cannot use the IRT tunnels simply because they won't fit. They also won't fit into IRT stations.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754386
        Posted by: JOHN
        Date: Fri Apr 18 21:23:39 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Ben-Zion Cassouto on April 10, 1997 at 12:24:10: Another movie with a few subway shots is "The French Connection" (1971). There is a scene in the Grand Central shuttle station, and also a car/elevated train chase on the West End Line (at least, I think it was the West End - the station said Bay 50th St., but the train's head sign said 'N'. The train was an R-42 train and the shuttle train was an R-17 train.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754390
        Posted by: David M. Razler
        Date: Fri Apr 18 23:12:50 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:15:44: This was one of the bits of trivia that was brought out in the *book* making it a must-read!
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754391
        Posted by: David Steckler
        Date: Sat Apr 19 09:38:45 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:23:39: > Are you sure about that? I haven't seen The French Connection in a while but I though the cars were either R-32's or R-38's.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754395
        Posted by: Ben
        Date: Sat Apr 19 16:36:38 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:15:44: I saw the movie thousands of times and I am positive that there are only three doors on either side.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754397
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Sat Apr 19 17:09:20 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:23:39: The scene on in "The French Connection" on the elevated structure was filmed on the B line. The lead motor in that scene was an R-40M car #4542. The train it was supposed to have hit was an R-32.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754398
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Sat Apr 19 17:12:14 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:23:39: The scene on in "The French Connection" on the elevated structure was filmed on the B line. The lead motor in that scene was an R-40M car #4542. The train it was supposed to have hit was an R-32. By the way, do not be confused. Many scenes using the subways are filmed on the two outer platforms at Hoyt - Schermahorn or at Bergen Street lower level. If the script calls for an IRT consist, a similar B division car might be fitted with IRT signs and the station signs changed accordingly.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754422
        Posted by: JOHN
        Date: Sun Apr 20 22:07:09 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Ben on April 19, 1997 at 16:36:38: You're right. There are three doors on each side of all IRT equipment, and four doors on each side of BMT and IND equipment.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754424
        Posted by: John
        Date: Sun Apr 20 22:10:05 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by Steve on April 19, 1997 at 17:12:14: That's exactly what they did in Money Train - the movie with the most inaccuracy I ever saw.
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754425
        Posted by: John
        Date: Sun Apr 20 22:11:17 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Steckler on April 19, 1997 at 09:38:45: No, no. It was an R-40 train
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754520
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Thu Apr 24 14:57:56 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by JOHN on April 18, 1997 at 21:15:44: Come to think of it, that station looked like one of the IND elevated stations (there were only 2, 3 if you count the World's Fair).
        
        Subject: Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three
        Message Number: 754533
        Posted by: Jay Yudof
        Date: Thu Apr 24 23:23:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by MJS on April 13, 1997 at 18:56:05: Was Carlito's way the movie that had the Broadway Limited leaving out of Grand Central? (talk about cinematic license)

Thread title: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX (754280)
Started on Thu Apr 10 17:27:31 1997, by Dwayne J. Davis

Subject: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
Message Number: 754280
Posted by: Dwayne J. Davis
Date: Thu Apr 10 17:27:31 1997

Why is the subway service in the N.E.Bronx so crappy? Why is there only one IND line in the Bronx any way? I once read that the M.T.A. once planned to extend the grand concourse line east across Burke ave. to co-op city. The book made an inference that part of the tunnel had already been built. Is that true, and if so why was it not completed{ besides the fact that the M.T.A. bought the Dyre line}. I live on Burke ave. and there are what seem to be vent gates along the street that look just like the ones along existing subway lines. What could this mean?
- Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
- Message Number: 754291
- Posted by: steve
- Date: Fri Apr 11 00:43:19 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by Dwayne J. Davis on April 10, 1997 at 17:27:31: What book are you referring to? I have been to the bumper block at the north end of the 205th St. station dozens of times. I have not seen any indication that there was any intent to extend the line beyond the current end. (unlike tracks A1 & A2 at the end of the 174th St. Yard of the 'A' line) On the other hand, 205th St. station does not have the traditional track arrangement for a terminal. The track arrangement could suggest that there was some thought given to future expansion.
  - Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
  - Message Number: 754294
  - Posted by: Wayne Johnson
  - Date: Fri Apr 11 09:43:42 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by Dwayne J. Davis on April 10, 1997 at 17:27:31: Dwayne, I grew up in the Bronx and finally moved away last October. I think it would be great if we had an IND extention eastbound or any extention for that matter. The NE Bronx is indeed the largest area of the borough with little of no subway service. I do feel that NE Bronx residents are better off than say residents in NE and SE Queens. Queens is NYC's largest borough and it has large areas with no subway service. I think this is why most NYCTA bus routes in Queens feed a subway terminal. Also Queens has many premium fare express bus routes to serve these areas also.
    - Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
    - Message Number: 754295
    - Posted by: Dwayne J. Davis
    - Date: Fri Apr 11 11:08:15 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by Dwayne J. Davis on April 10, 1997 at 17:27:31: I am not sure what the exact name is but it is something from the Bronx County Historical Society. The book focused on transportation in the bourough. When the concourse line terminates it is not a dead end track like most terminal stations. The tunnel extends{ how far I don't know} as if 205th wasn't supposed to be the last stop. The area that I thought might have been a unused subway tunnel is not near 205th. Two that I can think of right now are on Burke and Cruger avenues in front of the NY TEL building. The other site is on Burke bet. Yates and Bouck aves. Could somebody check it out and get back to me.
      - Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
      - Message Number: 754302
      - Posted by: Dan Schwartz
      - Date: Fri Apr 11 15:57:58 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by Dwayne J. Davis on April 10, 1997 at 17:27:31: My understanding is that there were indeed plans at one time to extend the IND Concourse line across Bronx Park to Burke Ave. and then eastward to the vicinity of today's Co-op City. But that was many years before Co-op City was even thought of. As you suggest, when the city bought the remains of the NYW&B RR (today's Dyre Ave. line) those plans were canceled; there just wasn't enough money to do both (adapt the NYW&B for subway service AND extend the Concourse line). Since both plans would have had their terminals in the same general area, there seemed little reason to do both. One interesting consequence of this change of plans is that, for many years, the operators of trains running between Dyre Ave. and E. 180th St. were considered officially to be IND Division employees! This was true even after thru service was instituted on today's #5 line; trains would change crews at 180th St. I think it is only in the last decade or so that this practice was discontinued. As for those vents on Burke Ave., I suspect they are ventilation for equipment in the basement of the telephone building, but I could be wrong.
        
        Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
        Message Number: 754320
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Sun Apr 13 18:46:32 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by steve on April 11, 1997 at 00:43:19: I've seen diagrams from 1929 suggesting the extension to the present Co-op City, which didn't exist then, but this was never an MTA plan, as the MTA wasn't created for another 39 years. MTA diagrams from it's inception in 1968 show that there was supposed to be an elevated extention of the Pelham Line, AS A B-DIVISION SERVICE!!! This service would break off the existing line at 177/Parkchester? and be replaced by an Lex IRT line on the el, from there the subway line would travel to a 2nd Avenue line in Manhattan.
        
        Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
        Message Number: 754325
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Mon Apr 14 02:36:23 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by MJS on April 13, 1997 at 18:46:32: I find it hard to believe that a B division extension of the #6 train was planned since A division and B division equipment are not compatible. I'd be very interested in seeing those plans.
        
        Subject: Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX
        Message Number: 754359
        Posted by: Robert
        Date: Wed Apr 16 19:41:07 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: IND extentions in N.E. BRONX posted by Steve on April 14, 1997 at 02:36:23: The #6 is built to B-Div with gapfillers so IRT trains can use it

Thread title: NYC Subway Earthquake Movie (754297)
Started on Fri Apr 11 11:38:21 1997, by Julio Perez

Subject: NYC Subway Earthquake Movie
Message Number: 754297
Posted by: Julio Perez
Date: Fri Apr 11 11:38:21 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three posted by David Pirmann on April 10, 1997 at 11:05:29: There was also a made-for-TV movie in the early '70s on ABC featuring James Brolin among others about an earthquake in New York City. In that movie, they used R-1s or R-9s. However, I do not remember the name of the movie. Does anyone here remember by any chance? Is it on video?
- Subject: Re: NYC Subway Earthquake Movie
- Message Number: 754345
- Posted by: Frank Gatazka
- Date: Tue Apr 15 08:12:57 1997
  
  In Reply to: [5]NYC Subway Earthquake Movie posted by Julio Perez on April 11, 1997 at 11:38:21: The movie in question was titled "A Short Walk to Daylight". Unfortunately, it is NOT available on video cassette at the present time. Perhaps it may be seen again on the "Late-Late Show"!
  - Subject: Re: NYC Subway Earthquake Movie
  - Message Number: 754402
  - Posted by: charlie muller
  - Date: Sun Apr 20 02:54:42 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: NYC Subway Earthquake Movie posted by Frank Gatazka on April 15, 1997 at 08:12:57: if you have cable on your tv maybe you can catch the movie ''a short walk to daylight.'' somtetimes tnt or tbs or usa networks run it. the last time i saw that movie was in the early 90's. i liked the movie and hope to see it again soon. it should be put on video since it it has not been on tv for a while. charlie muller.

Thread title: Center or Side Platforms? (754299)
Started on Fri Apr 11 14:11:04 1997, by Bill Mosteller

Subject: Center or Side Platforms?
Message Number: 754299
Posted by: Bill Mosteller
Date: Fri Apr 11 14:11:04 1997

I'm regarded as a real subway junkie. Recently, however, a friend stumped me. He asked, "Is there any pattern to WMATA (DC's Metro) station platform choices?" (When do they build center platforms, when side?) He had me stumped, but under the principle of "never let them see you sweat," I winged it. I proposed a couple rules to explain things: - Design bias is toward center platforms, because they mean fewer elevators and escalators, high cost items. - Near line splits (e. g., Rosslyn, where the Orange and Blue lines diverge) Metro typically grade separates the underground lines to avoid having a crossover in addition to the two switches. This means two platforms, vertically as well as horizontally separated. My friend added that at transfer stations, e. g., Metro Center, the upper level platfrom must be side platforms, or the geometry doesn't work for the equipment necessary. My questions to you: (a) are any of these theories accurate? and (b) Are additional rules of thumb involved? Thanks.
- Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
- Message Number: 754305
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Fri Apr 11 20:00:28 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Center or Side Platforms? posted by Bill Mosteller on April 11, 1997 at 14:11:04: Bill,
  - Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
  - Message Number: 754306
  - Posted by: Mark Greenwald
  - Date: Fri Apr 11 20:15:47 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Center or Side Platforms? posted by Bill Mosteller on April 11, 1997 at 14:11:04: Bill, I have extensive inventory of information on the Metro's of both Baltimore & Washington---I grew up there. As for the platforms, in all the information that I have, nobody addressed that question directly. They mentioned the simplicitiy of center platform stations in the form of keeping the cost low. Here is what was mentioned specifically: 1) Rosslyn & Pentagon are 2 original designs--If you were to look at a vertical slice of a station, it would form 3/4 of a circle. Along the outer walls are the tracks and along the inner section are the platforms--one above the other connected by an escalator---You were right though about their desire to eliminate unnecessary crossovers along with the switches---If you look to the south from Rosslyn, you can see where the tunnel splits--one towards Vienna (orange) and the other towards Nat'l Airport (Blue). You can also see the same from the upper platform at L'enfent Plaza--if you look to the south you'll see one track go up & the other go down to create a grade separation for the Green & Yellow Lines. 2) Another area specifically mentioned--the statons that were bored through solid rock were forced to be center platforms in order to have two completely separate tunnels--they said it was a safety factor.(Red Line from Woodley Park to Medical Center) and (Red Line from Forest Glen to Wheaton). For your own info., Forest Glen is soooo deep that it isn't served by an escalator from street level--it has 6 high-speed elevators because of the stations depth. 3) They also mentioned that the design of some of the stations were forced one way or the other because of the underpinning required for the buildings above--supposedly, that is why Judiciary Square (Red) is that way. As for why other stations (Like Cheverly on the Orange) who knows, it might be due to limited space to work with---Side platform stations take up less space because you don't need such a wide area on the approach to the station. 4) You are right though--Metro will always go with center platforms because of the simplicity of design and it also keeps the crime element from the arched walls. 5) I hope this has helped---it's amazing that all the info I have from site plans to annual reports---there was no specific answer to that question--Good job "winging it"
    - Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
    - Message Number: 754311
    - Posted by: Dan Lawrence
    - Date: Fri Apr 11 23:56:24 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: Center or Side Platforms? posted by Mark Greenwald on April 11, 1997 at 20:15:47: The reason that Baltimore's Metro (aka Subway) has ALL center platforms is a deliberate design. The operator's controls are on the left side of the full width cabs. This puts him in the proper postition to observe/operate the doors. The only time the operator has to leave the seat to operate the doors is at the terminal stations when trains cross over, and if the train has to cross to the other track because of operational problems. (The infrequent "wrong railing" usually causes a 2.5 to 3 minute dwell time per station, rather than the 1.5 to 2 minute dwell time.)
      - Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
      - Message Number: 754313
      - Posted by: Mark Greenwald
      - Date: Sat Apr 12 10:00:00 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Center or Side Platforms? posted by Dan Lawrence on April 11, 1997 at 23:56:24: Yes, it was a deliberate design for the Northwest Line. All the way back to the initial planning, the current stations were to always be center platforms, according to the "Baltimore Region Rapid Transit Phase I Plan" In this book, they said center was cheaper because duplication was not required when it came to platforms, escalators, etc. When the system was first designed in the late 60's, early 70's, it was going to incorporate both center and side platforms similar to the DC Metro. The initial "Phase I" was not only originally supposed to incorporate the current line from Charles Center to Owings Mills, but also a South Line from Charles Center to Marley Station with a branch to BWI. The route south of current I-95 was to follow almost identically the route of the Central Light Rail Line. In the grand scheme of things, there was supposed to be 6 branches radiating from a central station--Charles Center--with Charles Center being designed similar to Metro Center in DC. The 6 outer terminus stations would have been (Clockwise from the NW) Owings Mills, Timonium (obviously the CLR Line took care of this), Joppa-Belair (the leg from Charles Center to Hopkins was to be part of this line), Marlyn Ave. (Essex) & Sparrows Point were to be both terminals for the Southeast Line. It split like a "Y" from the current Shot Tower station., Marley station, and on the West Line a station at Chalfonte Drive (Catonsville) with further extensions planned out to Ellicott City & Columbia. If you would like more details like route alignment or station locations or...whatever...I've got extensive information on not only Baltimore but also DC. E-mail me anytime.
        
        Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
        Message Number: 754336
        Posted by: Bill Mosteller
        Date: Mon Apr 14 13:24:33 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Center or Side Platforms? posted by Dan Lawrence on April 11, 1997 at 23:56:24: Interesting insight! I'm familiar with the strategy, as the Lindenwold line between Philadelphia and South Jersey also uses it. They inherited island platform subway stations (Philadelphia: 15-16 on Locust, 12-13 on Locust, 8th & Market, and Franklin Square, Camden: City Hall and Broadway) and built out 7 more surface stations the same way.
        
        Subject: Re: Center or Side Platforms?
        Message Number: 754383
        Posted by: JOHN
        Date: Fri Apr 18 20:59:08 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Center or Side Platforms? posted by Bill Mosteller on April 14, 1997 at 13:24:33: In New York, side platforms seem to be the preferred by the TA. Basically, the only time you will encounter center platforms is at express/local stops (where both local and express trains stop). A typical local/express station has two center platforms. The outer tracks are for local trains, and the inner tracks are for express trains. Passengers can make local>express transfers (or vice/versa) by crossing the platform. A typical local stop on a trunk line also has four tracks with two side platforms. Express trains pass through the station on the two center tracks, which do not have platforms. At stations on spur or local-only lines, there are two tracks and two side platforms, although occasionally, you will encounter a center-platform station. Please note, also, that some lines have three tracks (two local, and one express), but these lines are usually on elevated lines and usually do not have express service.

Thread title: Screenwriter needs info-abandoned stations (754315)
Started on Sat Apr 12 16:32:57 1997, by Edward A. Ortiz

Subject: Screenwriter needs info-abandoned stations
Message Number: 754315
Posted by: Edward A. Ortiz
Date: Sat Apr 12 16:32:57 1997

I am a screenwriter who is looking for information on abandoned stations within Manhattan as well as other info. The story I am writing takes place primarily within the New York City Subway System. I have always loved the subways, ever since a child...in fact my father had to restrain me from walking into a subway tunnel as I was quite hypnotized by their exotic anture and darkness.
- Subject: Re: Screenwriter needs info-abandoned stations
- Message Number: 754316
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Sat Apr 12 19:56:40 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Screenwriter needs info-abandoned stations posted by Edward A. Ortiz on April 12, 1997 at 16:32:57: Check out: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/rails/disused.underground.html It has a complete list of all abandoned stations in Manhattan (and elsewhere), the dates of opening and abandonment, and other information.

Thread title: salutations from PARIS. (754317)
Started on Sat Apr 12 21:17:02 1997, by EMMANUEL VIVET

Subject: salutations from PARIS.
Message Number: 754317
Posted by: EMMANUEL VIVET
Date: Sat Apr 12 21:17:02 1997

SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH. I WORK IN THE PARIS SUBWAY ( RATP). I WOULD LIKE TO VISIT N.Y AND EVENTUALITY THE SUBWAY (because this my job!!). I AM A PILOT IN LINE 9.PORTE DE SAINT CLOUD-MAIRIE DE MONTREUIL. IF YOU KNOW AN OTHER AMERICAN PILOT ,WOULD LIKE ANSWER ME GIVE MY E-MAIL. THANKS A LOT.
- Subject: Re: salutations from PARIS.
- Message Number: 754349
- Posted by: steve lowenthal
- Date: Tue Apr 15 13:15:37 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]salutations from PARIS. posted by EMMANUEL VIVET on April 12, 1997 at 21:17:02: hi,do u have track maps of the ratp.regional rail ,,light rail system in paris
  - Subject: Re: salutations from PARIS.
  - Message Number: 754469
  - Posted by: John
  - Date: Tue Apr 22 10:33:37 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]salutations from PARIS. posted by EMMANUEL VIVET on April 12, 1997 at 21:17:02: The person who drives a subway train in New York is the motorman. If you want to speak with one, you might be able to catch him between runs at a terminal station (the subway map, of course, will indicate the terminals for each subway line).

Thread title: Miami Metrorail System (754318)
Started on Sun Apr 13 16:53:56 1997, by Steve

Subject: Miami Metrorail System
Message Number: 754318
Posted by: Steve
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:53:56 1997

I'll be in the Miami area and would like to contact a manager of the Miami System.

Thread title: Transit Museum going private? (754328)
Started on Mon Apr 14 08:53:43 1997, by Ed Yung

Subject: Transit Museum going private?
Message Number: 754328
Posted by: Ed Yung
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:53:43 1997

Recently after visiting there, I heard several rumors that the Transit Museum was going private with the exception of the gift shop, which will still be run by the MTA. It may be time for it to go private, because honestly, those cars look like they're in pretty bad shape and the station itself is suffering a leak over the R-16 display. Not all cars look like they're in bad shape, being the Triplex, BU's, and the LO-V'S (and most of those in the station) are in great shape, but the R16 looked battered with a gunshot hole on it, the R-11/34 is missing a window, and there's a little splattering of graffiti and glass scratching on a few cars. The standards are being rebuilt, but only after they had their underframe almost entirely eaten away by rust after sitting outside at Coney Island for years. The standard that was in the museum will receive the same treatment. Yes there's a Steinway in the Museum fleet, but it is sitting in Coney Island in very very bad shape. There's a lot more like a few R-12's, 22's, and stuff out there in Coney Island, that's part of the Museum but they're not in very good shape either. I saw these cars close up during the Coney Island shop tour, and it was kinda appalling to see these cars rust away. . . Hopefully if there is privatization or some corporation that is into railroading and mass transit, maybe they can find some place to store these cars away from Coney Island and possibly restore them. Let's all hope the MTA doesn't botch privitization. (Oh, yes, did I mention that the MTA always tried to close the thing down, but couldn't? They are a little less than accomodating to the Transit Museum folks anyway since it doesn't make money for them.)
- Subject: Re: Transit Museum going private?
- Message Number: 754400
- Posted by: Joshua Caesar
- Date: Sat Apr 19 22:22:16 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Transit Museum going private? posted by Ed Yung on April 14, 1997 at 08:53:43: How and where would a private company store and restore trains to keep them from rotting away like they seem to do when being stored. Maybe a facility could be built somehwere close to the city, if not in it, with access to MNRR or LIRR tracks. But for the same reasons the museum is not a money maker for the MTA, it would be even worse as a private enterpirse. I am almost positive that the MTA would make a private company purchase the used subway cars for the museum. A private company would encounter more economic problems than the MTA running the museum.
  - Subject: Re: Transit Museum going private?
  - Message Number: 754403
  - Posted by: Alan Kline
  - Date: Sun Apr 20 04:09:52 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Transit Museum going private? posted by Ed Yung on April 14, 1997 at 08:53:43: Does the Museum (or its fleet) have any sort of historic- preservation or landmark status to protect it from the budget cutters?

Thread title: SUBWAY SIGNS (754329)
Started on Mon Apr 14 10:49:57 1997, by Malcolm MacPherson

Subject: SUBWAY SIGNS
Message Number: 754329
Posted by: Malcolm MacPherson
Date: Mon Apr 14 10:49:57 1997

I'm from Toronto and regularly visit NYC. I'm interested in obtaining subway signage, especially signs with the circular coloured route symbols on them. Also, I would like to obtain a circular sign with the "M" on it before they are all covered up by the "pac-man" stickers. I'm willing to pay for these items, or trade for Toronto Transit Commission stuff (I have a basement full of crap, just name it, and I probably have it). If you can help, it would be much obliged. Malcolm

Thread title: Contact w/ Another Motorman (754332)
Started on Mon Apr 14 12:37:50 1997, by Mark S Feinman

Subject: Contact w/ Another Motorman
Message Number: 754332
Posted by: Mark S Feinman
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:37:50 1997

In Reply to: [6]salutations from PARIS. posted by EMMANUEL VIVET on April 12, 1997 at 21:17:02: I'm not a subway train operator but some train operators belong to the Electric Rairoaders Association - a non-profit group that enjoys and promotes electric traction and its history. You might try contacting the ERA at ERA@JUNO.COM - I'm sure someone will contact you. Good luck!

Thread title: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.) (754335)
Started on Mon Apr 14 13:03:01 1997, by Mark S Feinman

Subject: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.)
Message Number: 754335
Posted by: Mark S Feinman
Date: Mon Apr 14 13:03:01 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Michael Azzollini on April 10, 1997 at 23:10:52: From what I've heard, a consultant recommended that the TA spend the money ($2 million) to better establish an "identity". The surface division in NYC became MTA New York City Bus, in Long Island the former Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority because MTA Long Island Bus, the Staten Island Rapid Transit Opeating Authority became MTA Staten Island Railway and the Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority became MTA Bridges & Tunnels. Personally, I thought the identify was lost when the blue/red "TA" logo disappeared on the R-32, R-38 and R-40 cars in the 70s ......
- Subject: Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.)
- Message Number: 754340
- Posted by: Gary Jacobi
- Date: Mon Apr 14 15:46:23 1997
  
  In Reply to: [5]NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.) posted by Mark S Feinman on April 14, 1997 at 13:03:01: True, but think how Robert Moses must be twisting in his grave knowing that his beloved TB&TA is now a branch of a Transit operation.
  - Subject: Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.)
  - Message Number: 754343
  - Posted by: Bryan Layne
  - Date: Mon Apr 14 17:21:41 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.) posted by Mark S Feinman on April 14, 1997 at 13:03:01: I agree with what you said about the "TA" mating worms logo.I also think that the MTA's new "speeding train" logo is lacking something(perhaps creativity) and it loses the "Authority" aspect of the MTA.Does anyone agree with me?
    - Subject: Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.)
    - Message Number: 754347
    - Posted by: Mark S Feinman
    - Date: Tue Apr 15 12:21:57 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.) posted by Bryan Layne on April 14, 1997 at 17:21:41: Speeding Train Logo? Looks like PAC-MAN to me (the letters MTA being eaten by a blue Pac-Man creature) ....
      - Subject: Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.)
      - Message Number: 754348
      - Posted by: Mark S Feinman
      - Date: Tue Apr 15 12:22:40 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: NYCTA Name Change (was Re: S.I.R.T.) posted by Gary Jacobi on April 14, 1997 at 15:46:23: You know, I hadn't even thought about that. What delicious irony!!

Thread title: What if... (754344)
Started on Mon Apr 14 21:49:06 1997, by Sean Goldman

Subject: What if...
Message Number: 754344
Posted by: Sean Goldman
Date: Mon Apr 14 21:49:06 1997

There's been a lot of talk lately that New York is long overdue for an earthquake. If an earthquake should occur, assuming that there is still a New York left, could the subway system be salvaged, or is it too much of a mess already to put back together?
- Subject: Re: What if...
- Message Number: 754354
- Posted by: Ted Nielsen
- Date: Wed Apr 16 15:49:48 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]What if... posted by Sean Goldman on April 14, 1997 at 21:49:06: Well , Sean , I think that the NYC Subway system would be the least of our problems if the "Big One" would strike. We have water pipes breaking all the time without any assistance from mother nature. I'm sure that when the subway system was constructed , builders were not thinking of the possibility of a major earthquake hitting New York City. I know that there was a moderate earthquake in the late 1800s ( I think it was located in Queens or Brooklyn ) , but , at that time , the outer boroughs were mostly rural. There was little or no damage. I wonder what damage an earthquake of that magnitude would do today ? I have this article from a recent issue of the New Yorker which describes some possibilities if a major earthquake would strike the city ( including extensive damage to the subway system or even total destruction ) , I'll look for it and get back to you.

Thread title: Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System (754355)
Started on Wed Apr 16 16:03:10 1997, by Ted Nielsen

Subject: Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System
Message Number: 754355
Posted by: Ted Nielsen
Date: Wed Apr 16 16:03:10 1997

What do you think about this new tram system being built in Hudson and Bergen counties ? Do you live in the areas that will be served and will you use it to work ? What do you think about the Hoboken rail alignment conflict ? [ some people in Hoboken want it to follow the Conrail tracks along the western edge of the city instead of the waterfront route ]
- Subject: Re: Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System
- Message Number: 754500
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Wed Apr 23 18:55:39 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System posted by Ted Nielsen on April 16, 1997 at 16:03:10: Putting it anywhere but along or near Washington Street is a mistake, IMHO. In order for people to USE it, it has to be where people already want to be. I might even go so far as to suggest closing Washington to traffic, and making it LRT only, or maybe LRT+bus, or one way car traffic, two way LRT. Putting it on the west side is not going to do anything to alleviate Hoboken's transit problems. ---Dave

Thread title: IRT Redbirds (754356)
Started on Wed Apr 16 16:29:09 1997, by Wayne Johnson

Subject: IRT Redbirds
Message Number: 754356
Posted by: Wayne Johnson
Date: Wed Apr 16 16:29:09 1997

I was just think back to the first of the current redbirds (1980's). I remember when the TA painted a few trains on the Flushing line and I have a vague memory of them being called a "silver fox" at the time. This was probably around 1983-4. I am I correct???
- Subject: IRT Redbirds
- Message Number: 754357
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Wed Apr 16 16:29:39 1997
  
  I was just think back to the first of the current redbirds (1980's). I remember when the TA painted a few trains on the Flushing line and I have a vague memory of them being called a "silver fox" at the time. This was probably around 1983-4. Am I correct???

Thread title: Subway Routings (754369)
Started on Thu Apr 17 10:19:55 1997, by Gerry O'Regan

Subject: Subway Routings
Message Number: 754369
Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
Date: Thu Apr 17 10:19:55 1997

Just wondering if someone has exact routings of some of the subway lines where they jump from one street to another between stations, expecially in the Bronx, Queens & Brooklyn. (eg: #2 near 180th) Also which streets the open cuts run between (eg: Sea Beach & Brighton)
- Subject: Re: Subway Routings
- Message Number: 754371
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Thu Apr 17 10:54:25 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Subway Routings posted by Gerry O'Regan on April 17, 1997 at 10:19:55: As a NYC native I know much of the info. that you are looking for - the rest I can easily find out. I am very, very familiar with the routes and the streets they travel in the Bronx and Manhattan and relatively familiar with this info. for Brooklyn and Queens. Anything in particular or specific route you're looking for?
  - Subject: Re: Subway Routings
  - Message Number: 754375
  - Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
  - Date: Thu Apr 17 15:21:55 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: Subway Routings posted by Wayne Johnson on April 17, 1997 at 10:54:25: I am looking for any routings where the subways pass over/under side streets or private land, between stations in the outer boroughs. I realize that this may be a lot of information. If you can help me and don't wish to do a lengthy post, please feel free to E-mail me at oregan@freud.mec.edu Gerry
    - Subject: Re: Subway Routings
    - Message Number: 754376
    - Posted by: Gary Jacobi
    - Date: Thu Apr 17 17:41:17 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: Subway Routings posted by Gerry O'Regan on April 17, 1997 at 15:21:55: Much of what you seem to want is contained in Peter Dougherty's Track Maps on NY Subway Resources Website. Private RW is a moderate feature of the Canarsie,Franklin,and Metropolitan Ave areas.

Thread title: New Posts (754370)
Started on Thu Apr 17 10:32:42 1997, by Gerry O'Regan

Subject: New Posts
Message Number: 754370
Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
Date: Thu Apr 17 10:32:42 1997

Dave: Can you set up a post for new messages that isn't at the end of the whole list (perhaps a page by itself). I don't know if others have this problem but if anything interrupts a load of 'subtalk' I have a hard time getting back to the end of the list with Netscape 3.0
- Subject: Re: New Posts
- Message Number: 754499
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Wed Apr 23 18:53:10 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New Posts posted by Gerry O'Regan on April 17, 1997 at 10:32:42: Yes, but I have to code it myself. The Wwwboard doesn't come with an archiving function-- just deleting. Look for it this week. --Dave

Thread title: urban transit club nyc (754372)
Started on Thu Apr 17 12:00:05 1997, by steve lowenthal

Subject: urban transit club nyc
Message Number: 754372
Posted by: steve lowenthal
Date: Thu Apr 17 12:00:05 1997

looking to contact the urban transit club,,,need tele number or name or adddress,,,thanks ---
- Subject: Re: urban transit club nyc
- Message Number: 754373
- Posted by: Mark Feinman
- Date: Thu Apr 17 13:09:34 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]urban transit club nyc posted by steve lowenthal on April 17, 1997 at 12:00:05: Urban Transit CLub meets at the Masonic Building in NYC, 71 West 23rd Street (at 6th Ave), Room 2 West. Doors open 6, show starts 7:30. Next show dates May 10 and June 14. Unfortunately, the flyer I have does NOT have any contact name or phone number.
  - Subject: Re: urban transit club nyc
  - Message Number: 754508
  - Posted by: steve lowenthal
  - Date: Wed Apr 23 23:02:13 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: urban transit club nyc posted by Mark Feinman on April 17, 1997 at 13:09:34: i am still looking to contact them via phone or via mail thanks for your help 0

Thread title: Flushing Line Rebuilding? (754377)
Started on Thu Apr 17 18:32:11 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: Flushing Line Rebuilding?
Message Number: 754377
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Thu Apr 17 18:32:11 1997

I read a while back that the MTA was going to rebuild or renovate the #7 lines' elevated structure while still in service.Has this started yet and what are all the details of this project?
- Subject: Re: Flushing Line Rebuilding?
- Message Number: 754381
- Posted by: Mark S Feinman
- Date: Fri Apr 18 12:32:29 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Flushing Line Rebuilding? posted by Bryan Layne on April 17, 1997 at 18:32:11: If you mean the viaduct over Queens Blvd, that construction project just wrapped up.

Thread title: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS (754379)
Started on Fri Apr 18 06:15:07 1997, by Ben Morcos

Subject: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS
Message Number: 754379
Posted by: Ben Morcos
Date: Fri Apr 18 06:15:07 1997

I am currently doing a term project for my engineering class on the New York Subway. This site is a great source to say the least. I was wondering if anyone has any interesting facts I can throw in my paper. Thanx Ben Morcos
- Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS
- Message Number: 754380
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Fri Apr 18 11:11:33 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS posted by Ben Morcos on April 18, 1997 at 06:15:07: Engineering Hmmm. Did you know that the NY Times building (Now owned by New York Newsday) stands directly above the IRT Broadway-7th Ave lines and shares one of it's support columns with the subway below.
  - Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS
  - Message Number: 754382
  - Posted by: David Steckler
  - Date: Fri Apr 18 16:52:12 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS posted by Wayne Johnson on April 18, 1997 at 11:11:33: I don't know if you are just looking for engineering facts or others as well. Here's a few others: The old substation #5 of the 2nd Ave. El at Allen & Division St. was being used as of a few years ago for a Chinese wholesale produce market. Substation #6 at 34th Street between 2nd and 3rd Ave. is now the 34th Street East movie theater (it's on the north side of the street). Substation #7 at 99th Street & 3rd. Ave. is used as the TA Structure and Equipment Electrical Department. The retaining wall behind the building was formerly the back of a Third Ave. Elevated yard, now a housing development park. And I think there's some steel girderwork east of 2nd. Ave at the landing of the 59th St. Bridge that still stands (the 2nd. Ave. El crossed the 59th St. Bridge).
    - Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS
    - Message Number: 754389
    - Posted by: Andrew Huie
    - Date: Fri Apr 18 22:39:15 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: LOOKING FOR INTERESTING FACTS posted by David Steckler on April 18, 1997 at 16:52:12: Last I saw, substation #5 was still being used for that purpose, and still has most of the "Manhattan Railway" lettering on the side facing away from Allen, towards Division.

Thread title: wouldnt it be cool if............ (754392)
Started on Sat Apr 19 11:58:58 1997, by Lefty

Subject: wouldnt it be cool if............
Message Number: 754392
Posted by: Lefty
Date: Sat Apr 19 11:58:58 1997

wouldnt it be cool if the city let amateur and proffesional artists paint murals on subway cars.. of course they wouldbe murals that send out good messages like "say no to drugs" and "help aids research" and what not.. it could probly even make the city some money! Lefty
- Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
- Message Number: 754393
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Sat Apr 19 12:33:34 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Lefty on April 19, 1997 at 11:58:58: Yes it would be 'cool'. Especially when all of the mindless imittors with little or no talent start to ply their messages. Then we'd be back it the mess we were in, in the 70s and early 80s. Then how much money do you think the city would save? Keep thinking though. We need more great ideas...
  - Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
  - Message Number: 754401
  - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
  - Date: Sun Apr 20 01:00:14 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Jim on April 19, 1997 at 12:33:34: Actually, I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure it would cause a second wave of grafitti, anymore than the artwork in the stations now does. I doubt it'll happen though. Of course I'm also praying that the T/A will bring back the redbirds.........
    - Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
    - Message Number: 754405
    - Posted by: Jim
    - Date: Sun Apr 20 15:40:01 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 20, 1997 at 01:00:14: I guess you have more faith in human nature than I do. As far as the RedBirds are cooncerned. Enjoy them while you can. 740 R-142s go out for bid in June.
      - Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
      - Message Number: 754413
      - Posted by: philip nasadowski
      - Date: Sun Apr 20 18:58:15 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Jim on April 20, 1997 at 15:40:01: I sure do, every time I go from Hartford to LI, I take MN down to GCT and take the 7 to TS to and the 1/2/3/9 to Penn to get the LIRR to PW :) Actually, I'm glad to see an investment in new stuff (are the new cars going to have A/C inverter propulsion??), but I really wish the MTA would get better stylists. Heck, even the LIRR's M-1's look better than the current 62's. I think the latter is just too plain looking, and frankly ugly. The stainless steel look doesn't deter vandals anyway - witness the "keying" of windows on the system, and on the interior walls. I don't think stainless steel has as much to do with grafitti deterence as clean, attractive stations and a reliable, well viewed system do. Today's subway is light years ahead of what it was in the 80's.
        
        Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
        Message Number: 754414
        Posted by: philip nasadowski
        Date: Sun Apr 20 18:58:22 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Jim on April 20, 1997 at 15:40:01: I sure do, every time I go from Hartford to LI, I take MN down to GCT and take the 7 to TS to and the 1/2/3/9 to Penn to get the LIRR to PW :) Actually, I'm glad to see an investment in new stuff (are the new cars going to have A/C inverter propulsion??), but I really wish the MTA would get better stylists. Heck, even the LIRR's M-1's look better than the current 62's. I think the latter is just too plain looking, and frankly ugly. The stainless steel look doesn't deter vandals anyway - witness the "keying" of windows on the system, and on the interior walls. I don't think stainless steel has as much to do with grafitti deterence as clean, attractive stations and a reliable, well viewed system do. Today's subway is light years ahead of what it was in the 80's.
        
        Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
        Message Number: 754415
        Posted by: Jim
        Date: Sun Apr 20 20:45:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by philip nasadowski on April 20, 1997 at 18:58:15: The R-142s will have AC propulsion and 'modular' HVAC units which will be serviced through the car roof. There will be numerous other innovations too, although, the 142s will not be equiped to operate with the new signal technology while the R-143s will. I think that the MTA has learned its lesson with stainless steel interiors. From the first delivery, I saiid that riding an R-62 or 68 was like riding inside of a tuna fish can. Unfortunately, because of the tunnel configurations, innovations to the car envelope must be severely limited.
        
        Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
        Message Number: 754421
        Posted by: JOHN
        Date: Sun Apr 20 22:01:43 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Jim on April 20, 1997 at 20:45:10: Does anybody know when the IRT Redbirds will start being decommisioned?
        
        Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
        Message Number: 754453
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Mon Apr 21 17:19:55 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by JOHN on April 20, 1997 at 22:01:43: Logically speaking, with 740 cars coming on line, I'd imagine that the R28s and 29s might go first. The R-33 Corona cars (non-Air Conditioned) would be among the first to go. I suppose that some of the R-36s might survive through the first order. Then again, no cars will be de-commissioned until the R-142s start getting through the acceptance phase. From experience, this could be a lengthy process.
        
        Subject: Re: wouldnt it be cool if............
        Message Number: 754473
        Posted by: Amy
        Date: Tue Apr 22 16:06:06 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]wouldnt it be cool if............ posted by Lefty on April 19, 1997 at 11:58:58: Oh Cool! That would be really neat if artists were allowed to paint murals and messages on subway cars. More power to you!

Thread title: Philly Trains (754399)
Started on Sat Apr 19 19:32:46 1997, by Ben

Subject: Philly Trains
Message Number: 754399
Posted by: Ben
Date: Sat Apr 19 19:32:46 1997

Does anyone know about the spur tracks just north of Erie station on the Orange Line (where they go, past/future plans,etc.)??????
- Subject: Re: Philly Trains
- Message Number: 754461
- Posted by: FRED WELLMAN
- Date: Mon Apr 21 20:06:09 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Philly Trains posted by Ben on April 19, 1997 at 19:32:46: I belive Erie is a double deck station. I know it used to be a large trolley transfer point. The lower station[DEL: are still used on fan trips. The Broad st line does branch off to Chinatown but I think it is closer to Center City
  - Subject: Re: Philly Trains
  - Message Number: 754495
  - Posted by: Tony DeSantis
  - Date: Wed Apr 23 13:02:30 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: Philly Trains posted by FRED WELLMAN on April 21, 1997 at 20:06:09: The spur tracks north of Erie are used as a turnaround for the Erie-8th&Market local trains during rush hours.
    - Subject: Re: Philly Trains
    - Message Number: 754532
    - Posted by: Jay Yudof
    - Date: Thu Apr 24 22:41:57 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: Philly Trains posted by Tony DeSantis on April 23, 1997 at 13:02:30: In addition to the turnaround for the Erie-8th & Market service (which I believe was even higher in traffic before the recent introduction of express track service between Erie and Olney), this was designed as the takeoff for the Northeast Phila extension of the Broaad St. Subway. This was on the city plans from as early as the nineteen-teens, and was planned to run in the Roosevelt Boulevard median up to Adams avenue, then up the median of the planned ?Northeast Boulevard pretty far up. Locals will note the obvious right-of-way of Northeast Boulevard (high-tension wires), and also may recall that when the parking lot was constructed for the (now gone) Sears, Roebuck flagship in the early '70s, a station was built under the parking lot, since subway construction was seen as imminent and the disruption of lot traffic was to be avoided. There has been extensive back-and-forth on this subway line (the Market-Frankford obviously being grossly overloaded in service to the NE). Much of the debate has always focused on the NE carriage trade not wanting to travel into town via the urban neighborrhoods of NE Phila.
      - Subject: Re: Philly Trains
      - Message Number: 754539
      - Posted by: Mark S Feinman
      - Date: Fri Apr 25 12:07:31 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Philly Trains posted by Jay Yudof on April 24, 1997 at 22:41:57: Does that station still exist under the lot and is there a way one can get access to it??

Thread title: NR LIne (754404)
Started on Sun Apr 20 12:37:10 1997, by Brad Tribucher

Subject: NR LIne
Message Number: 754404
Posted by: Brad Tribucher
Date: Sun Apr 20 12:37:10 1997

Why do some NR trains have to be rolling sewers? Some of them are clean, but for the most part they are rolling garbage cans. All that needs to be done is a little sweeping, and they would be fine. But NO! You could pay the homeless min. wage to sweep the trains at night and the trains would be nice and clean in the morning while providing money for food for these people who have to resort to begging in the subway cars anyway. Thoughts anyone?
- Subject: Re: NR LIne
- Message Number: 754406
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Sun Apr 20 15:45:59 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]NR LIne posted by Brad Tribucher on April 20, 1997 at 12:37:10: The N & R trains are dirty for 2 reasons. First: some of those that ride these lines are slobs. Second: the TA has cut the ranks of the cleaners by about 1/3. As for payting the homeless minimum wage to sweep, I think that you might have some oposition from the TWU local #100. Their members are paid more than $16 per hour to sweep (+ benifits). There is virtual warfare now with the TA planning to use WEP people (welfare & home relief) to fill the cleaner vacancies that now exist.
  - Subject: Re: NR LIne
  - Message Number: 754474
  - Posted by: James
  - Date: Tue Apr 22 16:06:33 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: NR LIne posted by Jim on April 20, 1997 at 15:45:59: That's exactly why the TA keeps running with a budget deficit. 16 dollars for sweeping the floors!!?? Who needs a masters degree then! heh heh seriously, the idea sounds great although I also agree with jim that the unions will raise hell if that idea ever comes to fruitation.

Thread title: New Signage? (754410)
Started on Sun Apr 20 16:26:37 1997, by Dave Landreth

Subject: New Signage?
Message Number: 754410
Posted by: Dave Landreth
Date: Sun Apr 20 16:26:37 1997

At last the 59th St. IRT-BMT station renovation seems to be heading to completion (with marvelous Elizabeth Murray mosiacs!)--looks good except for one thing: the new signage indicating transfers, etc., has black letters on a white background, not the reverse. I'd already seen signs like them at 51st St. but assumed they were temporary--apparently not. Not only is this confusingly inconsistent with the rest of the subway graphics program, but it looks worse, and it's already begun to attract graffitti. Is it cropping up elsewhere in the system?
- Subject: Re: New Signage?
- Message Number: 754411
- Posted by: Bryan Layne
- Date: Sun Apr 20 16:48:59 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New Signage? posted by Dave Landreth on April 20, 1997 at 16:26:37: I agree,I think its a dumb idea.Plus,we already know that graffiti taggers love to write on things that you can clearly see their tag.On the rest of the signs we dont seem to have that problem as much.
  - Subject: Re: New Signage?
  - Message Number: 754417
  - Posted by: Jim
  - Date: Sun Apr 20 21:00:46 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: New Signage? posted by Bryan Layne on April 20, 1997 at 16:48:59: Sadly, you are correct, however, a consultant to the MTA pointed out that black on white is more visible and easier to read than white on black. Graffiti not withstanding - of course....

Thread title: New cars for PATH? (754412)
Started on Sun Apr 20 16:59:43 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: New cars for PATH?
Message Number: 754412
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Sun Apr 20 16:59:43 1997

Does anyone know if PATH is considering or is near to ordering new cars?
- Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
- Message Number: 754531
- Posted by: Pete
- Date: Thu Apr 24 21:50:57 1997
  
  In Reply to: [5]New cars for PATH? posted by Bryan Layne on April 20, 1997 at 16:59:43: PATH has plans for completely rebuilding the existing 1972 PA3 and 1987 PA4 fleets in the VERY near future. These cars will be re-equipped with AC propulsion, Automatic Train Operation, full width cabs, provision for regerative brakes, and all the latest bells and whistles. After these cars are placed in service a new fleet of PA5 cars will then be ordered to replace the existing 1965-67 PA1 and PA2 fleets, which will be scrapped. The PA5s will be similar to the rebuilt PA3/PA4 fleets. At the same time, PATH will install a new state-of-the-art Automatic Train Operation System to completely replace the existing color light/trip stop system. The first phase of this new system will be between Journal Square and Newark. The remainder of the system will be replaced under a second phase, immediately thereafter. Work should be completed by 2004.
  - Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
  - Message Number: 754596
  - Posted by: Andrew Huie
  - Date: Mon Apr 28 20:38:56 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: New cars for PATH? posted by Pete on April 24, 1997 at 21:50:57: That's odd. I'm not on the up-and-up with PATH rolling stock, but aren't the PA-4's the first new design since the classic PATH cars (PA-1 through PA-3)? Also, have/will any of the old PATH cars be saved for historical purposes? (It would be great if the subway museum gets one!)
    - Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
    - Message Number: 754604
    - Posted by: John
    - Date: Mon Apr 28 22:04:18 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: New cars for PATH? posted by Andrew Huie on April 28, 1997 at 20:38:56: I am a little sketchy on this, but in the 1980's (when I wasn't using PATH that often), weren't some of the trains painted light blue, and didn't some of them have forward/backward seating and also didn't some of them not have door chimes?
      - Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
      - Message Number: 754608
      - Posted by: David Pirmann
      - Date: Tue Apr 29 01:01:07 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New cars for PATH? posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 22:04:18: Yup! Take a look at [7]PATH Historical Photos for examples. I thought I had a picture of a PA-series painted blue but I guess not. The book "Gotham Turnstiles" definitely has such a picture.
        
        Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
        Message Number: 754646
        Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
        Date: Tue Apr 29 23:13:00 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New cars for PATH? posted by Pete on April 24, 1997 at 21:50:57: What is the transit's world obsession with full width cabs!!!!! I 0^%%$^$$# HATE them!!!! It makes it difficult / impossible to see out the front of the train - which of course takes the fun out of it ;)
        
        Subject: Re: New cars for PATH?
        Message Number: 754649
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Wed Apr 30 01:06:58 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New cars for PATH? posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 29, 1997 at 23:13:00: Transverse cabs make it easier for the Conductor to operate the doors because He/She doesn't have to walk between cars. Transverse cabs also make One Person Train Operation possible.

Thread title: New Running Lights on the LIRR (754420)
Started on Sun Apr 20 21:07:31 1997, by Steve

Subject: New Running Lights on the LIRR
Message Number: 754420
Posted by: Steve
Date: Sun Apr 20 21:07:31 1997

The LIRR has been equiping the M-1s and M-3s with additional running lights. The new dual headlamps are mounted on the bonnet directly above the plug door. Currently, about 20% of the fleet has been completed. Some of the diesel fleet has also been done (of course, not the same light arrangement). Is anyone aware if the M-1s, M-2s, M-3s, M-4s or M-6s on metro-north are getting the same treatment?
- Subject: Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR
- Message Number: 754444
- Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
- Date: Mon Apr 21 16:16:40 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New Running Lights on the LIRR posted by Steve on April 20, 1997 at 21:07:31: Oh, they sure are doing it. Personally, I think the new lights are the grossest looking things on the planet. It kills whatever good looks the front ends of those cars had. BTW, I've noticed that now some MN and LIRR diesels have *blinking* lights on them??? I sure hope they don't go into the disco strobe thing that Slamtrak does, as I think it's both A) stupid looking and B) I doubt it does much for safety anyway... Oh yeah, anybody got any news on the new LIRR diesels??? I thought they were supposed to be popping up with douible deckers by now...
  - Subject: Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR
  - Message Number: 754484
  - Posted by: Tim
  - Date: Tue Apr 22 21:28:02 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 21, 1997 at 16:16:40: I saw one of the brand new diesels and double decker cars at Jamaica Station during rushour in early March. It was gorgeous - silver with a red and blue paint scheme - seemed very patriotic and sharp..would have loved to have jumped on it!
    - Subject: Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR
    - Message Number: 754487
    - Posted by: Steve
    - Date: Tue Apr 22 21:53:29 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR posted by Tim on April 22, 1997 at 21:28:02: Actually, what you saw was the prototype train which has been in service (more or less) since 1993. It's the 5:49 PM from Penn Station to Port Jefferson, which leaves Jamaica at 5:11 PM. It's made up of ten Bi-levels, 5 married pairs, sandwhiched between two FL-9ACs.
      - Subject: Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR
      - Message Number: 754509
      - Posted by: Tim
      - Date: Wed Apr 23 23:42:39 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR posted by Tim on April 22, 1997 at 21:28:02: Well it was still cool!

Thread title: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! (754423)
Started on Sun Apr 20 22:07:30 1997, by Bryan Layne

Subject: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
Message Number: 754423
Posted by: Bryan Layne
Date: Sun Apr 20 22:07:30 1997

I think the TA should paint them red! A system of all stainless steel cars sounds pretty drab.I say they should paint them red,I dont think it would be that hard to do.Does anyone agree with me?
- Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
- Message Number: 754435
- Posted by: Lefty
- Date: Mon Apr 21 10:16:17 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Bryan Layne on April 20, 1997 at 22:07:30: thats a real good idea, but it just wouldnt look right as i imagine it.. maybe it would who knows.. -Lefty
  - Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
  - Message Number: 754437
  - Posted by: John
  - Date: Mon Apr 21 13:38:09 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Lefty on April 21, 1997 at 10:16:17: Painting the R-142s red would be pretty good, but it still wouldn't match the charm of the old Redbirds.
    - Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
    - Message Number: 754442
    - Posted by: Lefty
    - Date: Mon Apr 21 15:58:44 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by John on April 21, 1997 at 13:38:09: are the new trains gonna have the bench type seats like on the red trains or the individual shitty seats like on the other trains.. personally i like the benches the best, because then fat people arent taking up more than one seat, cuz you cant actaulyl tell how much one seat is! Lefty
      - Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
      - Message Number: 754443
      - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
      - Date: Mon Apr 21 16:12:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Lefty on April 21, 1997 at 15:58:44: I think with some minor cosmetic changes, and those way cool strap thingies, a red paintjob would look WAY cool. Esp. if they do the interior like the 7 stock is now..... Maybe we should start a campaign to get the T/A to paint 'em red???
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754449
        Posted by: Bryan Layne
        Date: Mon Apr 21 16:39:45 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 21, 1997 at 16:12:10: Start a campaign......good idea! We could call it "Paint them red" or "Redbirds forever" . I'm not kidding,I'm serious I think we should start a campaign.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754451
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Mon Apr 21 17:13:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Bryan Layne on April 21, 1997 at 16:39:45: Sorry guys, Stainless Steel it shall be. Perhaps you could get red safety stripes on the bonnets but that's it.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754462
        Posted by: Zack
        Date: Mon Apr 21 20:40:51 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Bryan Layne on April 20, 1997 at 22:07:30: cancel the r-142!!!!! rebuild the REDBIRDS it would save money too. or make the 142's 143's? look like the r-30,32,38(painted red of course)
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754468
        Posted by: John
        Date: Tue Apr 22 10:27:43 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Zack on April 21, 1997 at 20:40:51: That's a very good idea! At the car show at the Javits Center, I saw a concept car that had a vintage design. If they can do that with an automobile, why can't they do it with a subway train? The train would be modern, but the design would be old. PERFECT!!
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754475
        Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
        Date: Tue Apr 22 16:39:33 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by John on April 22, 1997 at 10:27:43: Hey - I think it's a cool idea too, might even grab the MTA some attention - I say they copy the R 15 design - round windows and all. Gotta also have the hanging straps too.... The trouble is that the MTA is stuck in this damm "future" attitude that has resulted in the R 40, the Metrocard, and those new turnstiles which are a pain in the ass to get through if your fat or carring a lot of packages. Personally, I'd LOVE to see more Redbirds, a commitment to tokens, and better turnstiles.... Of course, it'll never happen.... On a more ironic note - the Amtrak section of Penn station has lots of hanging photos of the old station in it......
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754492
        Posted by: John
        Date: Wed Apr 23 10:57:20 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 22, 1997 at 16:39:33: That's another thing that I miss - the turnstiles. I miss the ones that rotated horizontally and even the older version of the current one, but I hate the current one. It's too modern and that beeping drives me crazy! Can you imagine standing on a platform waiting for the train while the friggin' turnstiles keep beeping?
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754498
        Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
        Date: Wed Apr 23 15:22:40 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by John on April 23, 1997 at 10:57:20: Oh yeah, that beep drives me nuts too... and that stupid display - does the T/A REALLY need to invest in a 2 line flourescent display JUST to flash "go" and the number of trips you have left??? But I think the old ones got ditched because they were a bit easy to jump.....
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754506
        Posted by: John
        Date: Wed Apr 23 21:29:42 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 23, 1997 at 15:22:40: True. The new design might be some deterrant to turnstile-jumpers, but they could still jump it if they really wanted to.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754513
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Thu Apr 24 13:46:58 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 22, 1997 at 16:39:33: I don't understand why all of you people think that the past was "the good old days" and I LIKE THE METROCARD AND STAINLESS STEEL TRAINS. and let's not forget that the cars of the 50's and 60's all looked like crap as opposed to their predecessors/succesors. Although some people are genetically obese, most fat people just eat too much and I don't feel sorry for them.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754514
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Thu Apr 24 13:52:49 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Lefty on April 21, 1997 at 15:58:44: I remember last friday there were 3 people sitting on the bench, one sat near the edge with space for 1/2 a person between him and the edge, person #3 sat with another 1/2 person space between herself and a 4th person. Normally I don't care, but that day my feet truly hurted and I had to sit down, if we had those comfy buckets I could of had my seat. I only want benches if they are vinyl like all the older-now scrapped cars.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754522
        Posted by: Philip I ate a gallon of ice cream and now I can't fit
        Date: Mon Jun 16 21:40:51 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by MJS on April 24, 1997 at 13:46:58: I'm not saying the past was better times (in fact, I think the AC invert control is something long overdue), I'm just saying that the R 62s look like crap. Actually, I've seen pictures of the R15s, and think they're just about the best looking ones the system ever had (uh oh...here we go.....) I think the "Brightliners" (R 3???) are stupid looking... The Metrocard wrould be a GREAT thing if it were implemented like D.C.'s farecards (sans the bizzare fare structure). Whatever money they would have saved by getting rid of the mech the prints how many trips are left, they've wasted by putting up these "check your remaining balence here" stands. Also, why don't they just get a bank of vending machines and get rid of the token booths??? replace them with cops... Oh yeah, most fat people DO eat too much and won't admit it, but some people who are just LARGER (NOT fat) can't fit through those new turnstiles...
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754526
        Posted by: Andrew Huie
        Date: Thu Apr 24 21:04:31 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 22, 1997 at 16:39:33: Trouble is, the stainless steel cars, narrow turnstiles, and such are the results of a small bunch of irresponsible people who have nothing better to do than to deface the subway, or too cheap to pay for a token. That would make the TA less willing to try anything interesting or convenient, because law-breakers might take advantage of it.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754538
        Posted by: David Steckler
        Date: Fri Apr 25 11:53:43 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip I ate a gallon of ice cream and now I can't fit through a turnstile Nasadowski on April 24, 1997 at 15:38:28: > The Bright Liners were R-32's.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754545
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Fri Apr 25 20:32:17 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip I ate a gallon of ice cream and now I can't fit through a turnstile Nasadowski on April 24, 1997 at 15:38:28: I also think the R-15s look cool. I was talking about everything after that, until the R-44. And I did say that it's not fair for people who are genetically obese (or something else they can't control).
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754573
        Posted by: Keranu
        Date: Mon Apr 28 05:36:56 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Bryan Layne on April 20, 1997 at 22:07:30: I agree that an all stainless steel system sounds drab but painting them red is not the answer. Bring in.. GRAFFITTI. I miss graffitti, it looks so brilliant. I don't actually do graffitti but I think it looks excellent and gives each train an identity.
        
        Subject: Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!
        Message Number: 754634
        Posted by: Andrew Huie
        Date: Tue Apr 29 19:32:22 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Keranu on April 28, 1997 at 05:36:56: Trouble is, the majority of graffiti was neither attractive nor even vaguely artistic. They were just scrawls done with a marker or a spray paint can, just so kids could leave their mark. That just made the trains look ugly, and the subway system look even more dilapidated. Though the campaign has also erased some rather impressive works, I'd rather the "artists" took their artistic talents elsewhere.

Thread title: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! (754434)
Started on Sun Apr 20 23:04:49 1997, by John Ohanian

Subject: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
Message Number: 754434
Posted by: John Ohanian
Date: Sun Apr 20 23:04:49 1997

I just thought of something. What would one do if they accedentally got on the wrong subway train and wound up going to the yard for the night. Would they be stuck in the train all night long?
- Subject: Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
- Message Number: 754440
- Posted by: David Steckler
- Date: Mon Apr 21 15:06:12 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! posted by John Ohanian on April 20, 1997 at 23:04:49: I can think of a lot worse places to get stuck for the night! Sounds like fun.
  - Subject: Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
  - Message Number: 754445
  - Posted by: Philip I'd better shut up before I get K-lined Nasadowski
  - Date: Mon Jun 16 21:39:35 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! posted by David Steckler on April 21, 1997 at 15:06:12: He He... Sure does sound like fun...especially if nobody's around and you can get hold of a brake handle and.........
    - Subject: Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
    - Message Number: 754450
    - Posted by: Jim
    - Date: Mon Apr 21 17:08:49 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! posted by Philip I'd better shut up before I get K-lined Nasadowski on April 21, 1997 at 16:21:48: The odds of getting stuck on a train going to the yard are very slim. Before the train is layed up, the crew is supposed to check each car. Once in the yard, the train operator (motorman) is required to walk from the block end, to the head-out end to set the hand brakes. This way he/she must walk through every car. However, sometimes due to circumstances, this does not always occur. In those cases, I can offer 2 bits of advice. First: Do not go to the yard on a 75' car (R-44, 46, 68 or 68A). The end doors on those cars are locked and so are the swing panels protecting the door operators. Second: If you do manage to get out of the train, DON'T. Call for help ! Blow the whistle/horn! All yards are very dangerous places where moving trains and 600 volt 3rd rails will bite at any opportunity. Most trains come to the yard for a reason, either for repair, so cars can be drilled out, cleaning, etc. They are rarely left unattended for long!
      - Subject: Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
      - Message Number: 754460
      - Posted by: Paul Polischuk
      - Date: Mon Apr 21 18:08:54 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! posted by John Ohanian on April 20, 1997 at 23:04:49: Being stuck in the yard is no pleasure trip. You will be escorted by the tranist police and driven to the nearest police station for processing. After processing and if you don't have a criminal record, they let you off with a warning. But they will have your name on record in case this situation occurs again. If it does, you will be charged with trespassing which carries a fine and time served. I know, this happened to me a few years ago at the Coney Island yard.
        
        Subject: Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!!
        Message Number: 754480
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Tue Apr 22 18:24:26 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: I GOT STUCK IN THE TRAIN!!! posted by Paul Polischuk on April 21, 1997 at 18:08:54: That's surprising to hear although that is the letter of the law. All of the incidents I am aware of, the train was sent back to the terminal with the 'passenger'.

Thread title: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. (754446)
Started on Mon Apr 21 16:22:10 1997, by William Brooks

Subject: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
Message Number: 754446
Posted by: William Brooks
Date: Mon Apr 21 16:22:10 1997

As part of a comprehensive plan for the Clinton Area, we are proposing a new subway line along either 10th or 11th Avenues, extending south from the West Side through Clinton & Chelsea, and ending in Greenwich Village. We would appreciate information on the cost, per mile, of new subway construction in Manhattan today; also comments on feasibility of such construction, etc.
- Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
- Message Number: 754448
- Posted by: Joshua Caesar
- Date: Mon Apr 21 16:31:46 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by William Brooks on April 21, 1997 at 16:22:10: I have just one thing to say to you: 2nd Ave. There are tunnel portions sitting in Chinatown and Harlem awaiting usgae from a subway line that will most likely never be built. Good luck though. JC studlyjc@aol.com
  - Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
  - Message Number: 754454
  - Posted by: Steve
  - Date: Mon Apr 21 17:30:41 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by William Brooks on April 21, 1997 at 16:22:10: Good luck !! Considering the time required to do engineering studies, environmental impact studies and feasibility studies, it'd be a minimum of 10 years before the first shovel of dirt was lifted. Then if special interest groups don't tie you up in court because the route does not serve them as well as other special interest groups, you are looking at 5 - 10 years of construction. Oh yes, the cost, most likely $50 - $100 million per mile. Why not be practical. An LRV would be easier to fund and get approval for. There are already plans for such a system from 42nd St and the East River, across 42nd St to 11th Ave and then south to the convention center. It would be far easier to get that proposal modified to include extensions to Chelsea, Soho, and Tribecca.
    - Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
    - Message Number: 754490
    - Posted by: Blaise Dupuy
    - Date: Wed Apr 23 09:06:57 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by William Brooks on April 21, 1997 at 16:22:10: The most cost effective way to add service along the west side would be to use the old New York Central line right of way. It runs underground west of eleventh avenue from the old penn yards (Trump's Lincoln West) to the convention center and then along an elevated line west of tenth ave. into the west village. The underground right of way is now being used by Amtrak to bring trains from Albany into Penn Station, but this is 4 tracks wide so it could support 'local' service. The elevated right of way has been abandonded since the eighties but I believe is owned by a rail fan who bought it from Conrail in order to preserve it for future use.
      - Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
      - Message Number: 754502
      - Posted by: Zack
      - Date: Wed Apr 23 20:35:40 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by Blaise Dupuy on April 23, 1997 at 09:06:57: that would be a good idea amtradkcould use the inner traks and the subway the outer.
        
        Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
        Message Number: 754504
        Posted by: John
        Date: Wed Apr 23 21:26:34 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by Zack on April 23, 1997 at 20:35:40: Not a bad idea, but where would the subway operate to? From where? Could it be connected to another subway line to provide thru service to another destination.
        
        Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
        Message Number: 754521
        Posted by: Brooks
        Date: Thu Apr 24 15:16:32 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by John on April 23, 1997 at 21:26:34: We thought the new line would branch off of the existing 1,3,9 line at 72nd Street, go south through Clinton, Chelsea, and Greenwich Village, there to join back up with the 1,3,9. There are obviously political problems with building a new subway through any of these neighborhoods. But the "not in my backyard" syndrome has been overcome before.
        
        Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
        Message Number: 754524
        Posted by: Joshua Caesar
        Date: Thu Apr 24 20:34:23 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by Brooks on April 24, 1997 at 15:16:32: Maybe the subway line could go up the line with Amtrak until Spuyten Duyvil, and then turn and follow Metro North till Yankee Stadium. From there a tie in could be made to the subway, or the line could be terminated at Yankee Stdium, with free transfers to the 4, C, D, and have a subway tie-in in Manhattan. I saw the ideato have a train running from Penn Station -> Spuyten Duyvil -> Yankee Stadium on somones website, I will post the URL when i remember it. JC
        
        Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.
        Message Number: 754546
        Posted by: Blaise
        Date: Sat Apr 26 00:05:51 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by Joshua Caesar on April 24, 1997 at 20:34:23: I agree that light rail would be the simplest way to go. Tie it into the 42ns St. tram and build stops at Lincoln West (get Trump to throw some money in) and the Convention Center. The Commitee for Better Transit has a great proposal to extend the 42nd St tram up the east side to the UN, across a pedestrian/tram bridge to Roosevelt Island and on to Long Island City in Queens. A connection to the #7 subway might also be possible, but very expensive I would guess.

Thread title: subway car srapping (754464)
Started on Mon Apr 21 21:42:43 1997, by Zack

Subject: subway car srapping
Message Number: 754464
Posted by: Zack
Date: Mon Apr 21 21:42:43 1997

what happens when a subway car is scrapped? does someone inspect it before or do they just haul it away? what would happen if you were in a car to be scrapped?
- Subject: Re: subway car srapping
- Message Number: 754466
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Mon Apr 21 22:13:36 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]subway car srapping posted by Zack on April 21, 1997 at 21:42:43: Usually, before a car is scrapped, it's transferred to a yard for shipment (like the 38th St. yard in Bklyn. The cars are (at least the ones I've seen) pretty well stripped of useable parts. Most of the glass has been broken. In the care of the R-27/30s, the controllers and brake valves were recovered from most of the cars. Then it is up to the purchaser to arrange to have them transported. If you were in a car that was scrapped, what would likely happen? Well you'd probably be told to get out !!!
  - Subject: Re: subway car srapping
  - Message Number: 754467
  - Posted by: Jim
  - Date: Mon Apr 21 22:14:54 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]subway car srapping posted by Zack on April 21, 1997 at 21:42:43: Usually, before a car is scrapped, it's transferred to a yard for shipment, like the 38th St. yard in Bklyn. The cars are (at least the ones I've seen) pretty well stripped of useable parts. Most of the glass has been broken. In the case of the R-27/30s, the controllers and brake valves were recovered from most of the cars. Then it is up to the purchaser to arrange to have them transported. If you were in a car that was scrapped, what would likely happen? Well you'd probably be told to get out !!!

Thread title: Re: New Running Lights (corrected) (754488)
Started on Tue Apr 22 21:55:18 1997, by Steve

Subject: Re: New Running Lights (corrected)
Message Number: 754488
Posted by: Steve
Date: Tue Apr 22 21:55:18 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: New Running Lights on the LIRR posted by Tim on April 22, 1997 at 21:28:02: Actually, what you saw was the prototype train which has been in service (more or less) since 1993. It's the 4:49 PM from Penn Station to Port Jefferson, which leaves Jamaica at 5:11 PM. It's made up of ten Bi-levels, 5 married pairs, sandwhiched between two FL-9ACs.

Thread title: Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches (754493)
Started on Wed Apr 23 11:39:44 1997, by Antoniette Scarpinato

Subject: Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches
Message Number: 754493
Posted by: Antoniette Scarpinato
Date: Wed Apr 23 11:39:44 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T. posted by Wayne Johnson on April 10, 1997 at 12:48:33: With all the talk about the proposed freight tunnel from Jersey to Brooklyn, wouldn't it be better to emerge a tunnel from the Bay Ridge Branch LIRR, into the extant but abandoned South Beach right of way of the SIRT, the line could continue down the North Shore branch, the rivival of which is supposedly being done now. Just a little planning like double decking the tunnel, three or four tracking the rights of way. electrifying a third rail, and you could have the bonus of passenger service. This could be done as current SIRT or lite rail, like the New Orleans Riverfront line which shares tracks with freight service...comments?
- Subject: Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches
- Message Number: 754501
- Posted by: Peter Rosa
- Date: Wed Apr 23 20:11:26 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches posted by Antoniette Scarpinato on April 23, 1997 at 11:39:44: I think that's a completely sensible idea ... which is precisely why it'll never get done :-(
  - Subject: Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches
  - Message Number: 754543
  - Posted by: Julio Perez
  - Date: Fri Apr 25 13:53:49 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: S.I.R.T./revival of north shore/south beach branches posted by Peter Rosa on April 23, 1997 at 20:11:26: Well, from what I've read, it might be possible now and not when Robert Moses was alive...

Thread title: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.(correcuted) (754503)
Started on Wed Apr 23 20:36:48 1997, by Zack

Subject: Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave.(correcuted)
Message Number: 754503
Posted by: Zack
Date: Wed Apr 23 20:36:48 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: New Line Along 10th or 11th Ave. posted by Blaise Dupuy on April 23, 1997 at 09:06:57: that would be a good idea amtrak could use the inner traks and the subway the outer.

Thread title: R110A Pictures Elsewhere (754510)
Started on Thu Apr 24 08:59:19 1997, by Julio Perez

Subject: R110A Pictures Elsewhere
Message Number: 754510
Posted by: Julio Perez
Date: Thu Apr 24 08:59:19 1997

Looking at the rosters, I saw there was no picture of the R110A available. But, I saw pictures of what _might_ be the 110A. Since I haven't been to NYC in quite a while, I wanted to confirm whether they were indeed R110As. On the "Behind the Scenes Photo Gallery of the Department of Subways," at http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/Subway/subphoto.htm, there are a series of photos. The second picture on the third row of pictures contains what appears to be a subway car being hoisted by a crane. Is that an R110A? On the "Subway Schedule Information" page of the TA, http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/Subway/subsch.htm, there is a photo at the top of the page. Is the unit at the left of the photo an R110A?
- Subject: Re: R110A Pictures Elsewhere
- Message Number: 754529
- Posted by: Steve
- Date: Thu Apr 24 21:28:09 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]R110A Pictures Elsewhere posted by Julio Perez on April 24, 1997 at 08:59:19: The second photo you mentioned is of the R-110A on the left, the R-110B on the right and a Low V on the lower track. The Photo was taken at Hammels Wye which is where Rockaway-bound trains head either to the west to Rockaway park or to the east to Far Rockaway. I could not be sure as to what the first photo was. The was stainless steel and had pantograph gates. Since the newer B division cars do not use pantograph gates, and the R-62As came from Canada I'd guess that the photo was of a 62 being delivered from Japan. Of course it could also be an R-127 or R-134.

Thread title: What happened to the Manhattan Railway? (754517)
Started on Thu Apr 24 14:14:00 1997, by MJS

Subject: What happened to the Manhattan Railway?
Message Number: 754517
Posted by: MJS
Date: Thu Apr 24 14:14:00 1997

In 1903 the MRW leased it's el lines to the IRT for 999 years. in 1940 the IRT was purchased by the NYC Board of Transportation (presently department of...) in 1953 the subway/bus/trolley properties were leased to the NYCTA. My question is what happened to the Manhattan Railway Company?

Thread title: #7 Flushing Train in Pulp Fiction (754523)
Started on Thu Apr 24 18:49:17 1997, by Tom Van Etten

Subject: #7 Flushing Train in Pulp Fiction
Message Number: 754523
Posted by: Tom Van Etten
Date: Thu Apr 24 18:49:17 1997

I would like information pertaining to a short story in an old Pulp Fiction collection of short stories. The P.F. is about an inch and a half thick. The story takes place in New York City on the #7 train from Times Square heading to the last stop at Main Street, Flushing. The characters realize that as they are progressing from station to station that they are getting younger by the minute. Doing some quick math they determine that they will not exist at the time the train arrives at Main Street, and that no one would even miss them or know that they ever existed. If I remember correctly, all ends well and all live happily ever after when as the train pulls in to the Willets Point station and an old disembodied pirate whose ship sank many decades ago in Flushing Bay becomes reunited. ( I may be creating my own fiction here, but as they safely arrive in Flushing they realize that nobody will believe their story.) If anyone can help with author, title or even date when published or any feedback I would be greatly appreciative.

Thread title: R-142s (754530)
Started on Thu Apr 24 21:44:50 1997, by Jim

Subject: R-142s
Message Number: 754530
Posted by: Jim
Date: Thu Apr 24 21:44:50 1997

It's beginning to look like the contract worth $2 Billion for 740 R-142 cars will go to..... [ ] Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan) (Builder or the R-62 and R-68A) [ ] Bombardier (Canada) (Builder of the R-62As) [X] Westinghouse Amrail (France) (Builder of the R-68s)
- Subject: Re: R-142s
- Message Number: 754540
- Posted by: Julio Perez
- Date: Fri Apr 25 13:36:34 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]R-142s posted by Jim on April 24, 1997 at 21:44:50: Are there any pictures available on R-142 prototypes??
  - Subject: Re: R-142s
  - Message Number: 754552
  - Posted by: James
  - Date: Sat Apr 26 20:29:46 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]R-142s posted by Jim on April 24, 1997 at 21:44:50: Uh, I hope not. Of the three, Amrail's cars (r-68) were the worst of the batch that the MTA bought in the 80's. If it is Amrail I hope that NYC Transit keeps the receipt handy, and inquire about their return policy! :)

Thread title: DIRECT Subway Links to LGA and JFK (754542)
Started on Fri Apr 25 13:51:10 1997, by Julio Perez

Subject: DIRECT Subway Links to LGA and JFK
Message Number: 754542
Posted by: Julio Perez
Date: Fri Apr 25 13:51:10 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: What does the NYC Metro need most in terms of Transit? posted by Tracy Moskaloff on April 16, 1997 at 15:00:19: I believe I mentioned this elsewhere, but the TA's and PA's planners and subcontractors should smell the coffee by visiting Hartsfield airport in Atlanta. THAT'S what a subway connection to the airports should be, not bus connections to the A (to JFK) and the 7 (to LGA)!

Thread title: Subways in the movies (754549)
Started on Sat Apr 26 15:39:55 1997, by Steve

Subject: Subways in the movies
Message Number: 754549
Posted by: Steve
Date: Sat Apr 26 15:39:55 1997

Some movies like Pelham 1 2 3, "Money Train" and "The Incident" feature the Subway system but many more use the subways for a scene or two. Upcoming, will be the sequel to Jurassic Park, "The Lost World" featuring R-46 cars. Other recent films include "Mister Wonderful", "Ghost", and "Jacob's Ladder". I'm compiling a tape of those clips involving the subways. Does anyone have any other films in mind to add to the collection? PS: I know about "The French Connection", "Nighthawks" and both "King Kongs". Quiz: What movie had it's opening Scene on BART and it's closing Scene on the NYCT?
- Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
- Message Number: 754550
- Posted by: Mark Greenwald
- Date: Sat Apr 26 19:27:44 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 15:39:55: There are a lot of scenes in "The Warriors"
  - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
  - Message Number: 754553
  - Posted by: charlie muller
  - Date: Sat Apr 26 21:21:16 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark Greenwald on April 26, 1997 at 19:27:44: in the movie ``the warriors'' there are a lot of 1970 vintage cars with graffitti on the cars. if you have the video you can hit the pause button you can see the cars and the graffitti. .
    - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
    - Message Number: 754554
    - Posted by: charlie muller
    - Date: Sat Apr 26 21:51:42 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark Greenwald on April 26, 1997 at 19:27:44: in the movie ``the warriors'' there are a lot of 1970 vintage cars with graffitti on the cars. if you have the video you can hit the pause button you can see the cars and the graffitti. you can also see the trains heading the wrong way, i.e. a northbound train going south on the northbound local track.
      - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
      - Message Number: 754556
      - Posted by: Dan Schwartz
      - Date: Sun Apr 27 01:15:00 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark Greenwald on April 26, 1997 at 19:27:44: What I would like to know is, why do movies that feature the subways always change station or train identities around? For example, in "The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3" the scenes that supposedly were occurring at the 23rd St. station on the Lexington Ave. line clearly were not actually shot there. In "Money Train", the station marked "Wall Street" at the beginning is really 14th St.-Union Square. (They then mention that the track against the wall is used by the #6 train, which it is--at Union Square. The #6 doesn't run to Wall St.). The route taken by the hijacked "money train" is also impossible, going from 5th Ave. station on the N/R line (never identified by name in the movie) to Broadway-Nassau. It then heads toward Coney Island, though on which line isn't made clear. The chase scene in "The French Connection" featured an N train on the B line--something that can happen if they are rerouting trains for some reason, but still not the normal state of affairs. Certainly they could have put "B" signs up if they had wanted to--unless the TA specifically told them not to. But why would the TA insist that the subways be shown inaccurately?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754557
        Posted by: David Pirmann
        Date: Sun Apr 27 02:59:35 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 15:39:55: "Style Wars" (a graffiti documentary) also has some clips of older cars and trains running on the els and in tunnels. Also, "Die Hard with a Vengence" has a subway sequence. --Dave
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754561
        Posted by: John
        Date: Sun Apr 27 21:38:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Dan Schwartz on April 27, 1997 at 01:15:00: I also agree that Money Train is a very inaccurate movie when it comes to the subway. One thing that you forgot to mention was that the R-30 cars are not IRT cars, and yet they were shown in the movie with IRT route numbers on them. Another thing was the scene in the Fulton Street station on the 4 and 5 line, which in fact, it really wasn't Fulton St. In addition, in that same scene, when the token booth was torched and Snipes jumped from his position to save the attendant, he avoided two passing number 5 trains. This is WRONG!!!! There are NO EXPRESS TRACKS at the Fulton Street stop and the number 5 train ALWAYS STOPS THERE!!!! ARGHH!!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!!!!!!!
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754563
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Sun Apr 27 21:45:12 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Dan Schwartz on April 27, 1997 at 01:15:00: I cannot begin to explain the inaccurracies in "Money Train" and there were far more than the ones you cited. For example when trying to stop the runaway 'money train' someone yells "Bleed the brakes." What would you be bleeding in an air brake system? Oh well, that's Hollywood. The real money trains also bear no resemblance to the car which was built at Coney Island Shop for the movie. The actual car is currently in Coney Island and is visible from the South-bounf 'F' train as it leaves the Ave. X station. As for the N train on the B line, I can only assume that when the film was made, the 'B' end sign color was black and the film maker might have wanted a bit of color in the scene. However, the 'F' sugn was purple and would have served equally well.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754567
        Posted by: David R. Steckler
        Date: Sun Apr 27 23:36:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by John on April 27, 1997 at 21:38:10: I'm surprised to hear everyone commenting about the inaccuracies in "The Money Train" concerning station, routes, signage, etc. Don't you realize the entire "line" was constructed by the movie production company? They built a 5/8 mile replica of the subway, complete with two stations. I believe it was built in the Palm Desert area. There was a lengthy article, including pictures, about this in People magazine around the time the movie was released. How accurate could it have been when the entire "system" was a gigantic prop?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754569
        Posted by: Jim
        Date: Mon Apr 28 01:07:55 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 15:39:55: Here are a few titles: 1) "Gloria" - NYCT & Path 2) "Dressed to Kill" (Angie Dickenson) IRT 3) "The Silent Partner" - Toronto System 4) "No Way Out" - DC System 5) "The Hunter" & "The Fugitive" - Chicago System 6) "Speed" - LA System 7) "A Stranger is Watching" - NYCT 8) "Die hard III" - NYCT Has anyone guessed the answer to your quiz yet?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754577
        Posted by: Mark Greenwald
        Date: Mon Apr 28 10:06:16 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Jim on April 28, 1997 at 01:07:55: What's funny about "No Way Out" is that --yes, they do go down into a Metro station of DC but where they are in the station is NOT DC--It is the Charles Center Station in nearby Baltimore--of course, when they go out the exit, they're back in DC--oh if it were only this easy.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754586
        Posted by: Wayne Johnson
        Date: Mon Apr 28 17:18:28 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 15:39:55: I agree with Steve, that there were many inaccuracies in the movie money train. One of my favorites was the Bleeding the brakes scene. Also when W Harrelson stole the train he set the throttle and then left it momentarily to toss the motorman from the train. We all know that the train would have stop as soon as he released the throttle. Also the tripper that was activated to stop the train - trippers wich are beside signal look totally different from the striped contraption in the movie. We could go on and on as there are many others.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754588
        Posted by: John
        Date: Mon Apr 28 19:12:13 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by David R. Steckler on April 27, 1997 at 23:36:10: Once. Just once, can a movie that involves the New York Subway have NO flaws in it? Is that too much to ask, Hollywood? Study your goddamn facts before you go out making a movie, for crying out loud!!! I also forgot - the main attraction in Money Train - the money train itself is wrong!!! There are actually several revenue collection trains and they look NOTHING like the one in the movie. The real ones are painted yellow with diagonal black stripes on the ends.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754611
        Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
        Date: Tue Apr 29 07:01:05 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 19:12:13: Of course Hollywood can't get the NY subways right - Half the people over there have never seen a train in real life anyway. Besides - they can't even get a real life subway right, let alone a movie one. Of course the real money train isn't a flashy thing - it makes sense to make it look likle any other work train (I.E., looks low key)
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754618
        Posted by: FRED WELLMAN
        Date: Tue Apr 29 10:11:00 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 29, 1997 at 07:01:05: The movie River Wild has a open shot of the Boston sky line with A shot of the MBTA Red Line crossing the Longfellow bridge just before it enters the Charles/MGH station going to Park St.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754625
        Posted by: Mark S Feinman
        Date: Tue Apr 29 13:22:10 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Jim on April 28, 1997 at 01:07:55: Don't forget "Risky Business" near the end of the movie .... there's an, er, "interesting" scene between Tom Cruise & Rebecca DeMornay on the CTA loop late at night .... Also, why all the inaccuracy depicting the subway? I think, since the grafitti days, the TA is very sensitive to "negative" depictions of its facilities (grafitti, token booth torching, runaway trains, etc) and forces the production companies to be, at times, so inaccurate that it doesn't refect reality ("bleeding" the brakes, for one). --Mark
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754628
        Posted by: John
        Date: Tue Apr 29 17:11:06 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark S Feinman on April 29, 1997 at 13:22:10: But what does one have to do with the other?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754639
        Posted by: Mark Greenwald
        Date: Tue Apr 29 20:44:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark S Feinman on April 29, 1997 at 13:22:10: And lets not forget the ovie "Turk 182"--here a train that is supposedly "graffitti proof" finds out that it's not.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754653
        Posted by: Frank Gatazka
        Date: Wed Apr 30 08:21:36 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 15:39:55: There are many movies that feature the NYCTA in one or more scenes. Here are some of my favorites: "The Lost Weekend" with Ray Milland features the Third Avenue El in Manhatten. "The Wrong Man", with Henry Fonda features R1-9 cars and the R-15's (in original livery) on the Corona Line at Jackson Heights. "The Bachelor Party" has Eli Wallach and others in a BMT Standard on the 14th Street-Canarsie Line. "The Little Fugitive" features scenes at Stillwell Avenue with BMT Standards. Rod Steiger catches the "A" train, R-10's in the original two tone gray color scheme, on the Eigth Avenue Line in the "The Pawnbroker". The made for TV movie "A Short Walk to Daylight" has R1-9's in a simulated earthquake at the Court Street Station. "Fort Apache-The Bronx" features the White Plains Road Line at Westchester Avenue and 149th Street through the devestated South Bronx. Eric Roberts gives a beat cop a phenolphtalein "cocktail" under the White Plains Road Line at Westchester Square in "The Pope of Greenwhich Village". "The House on Carroll Street" with Kelly McGillis features R-10's at Hudson Street Station on the Liberty Avenue El in a period piece thriller. Woody Harrelson ropes a "steer" at 62nd Street Station on the West End El in Borough Park in "The Cowboy Way" which also features scenes of R-40's and ponies on the Manhatten bridge (check out the special planking laid on the rails for the horses benifit). Spike Lee's "Malcom X" features specially decorated D types (moved by diesels) at Wycoff Avenue on the Myrtle Avenue Line in Ridgewood. All of the above, except for "A Short Walk to Daylight" are available currently on video cassette.
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754690
        Posted by: Steve
        Date: Wed Apr 30 20:23:00 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Frank Gatazka on April 30, 1997 at 08:21:36: That's quite an impressive list. I have a copy of "The House on Carol St." but I don't remember a subway scene in it. I'll check it out tonight. Of course you didn't mention my QUIZ question. Care to venture a guess?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754694
        Posted by: Alex Gonzalez
        Date: Thu May 1 12:58:56 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 30, 1997 at 20:23:00: That's it! I've had it now! I think we should start a petition to get "A Short Walk To Daylight" onto videocassette. It is possibly the greatest exposure that the NYC Subway System has ever had (okay, okay, Taking of Pelham Bay wasn't too shabby either!) and I want to know why this gem is not available. Does anybody have a recording off TV of this?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754695
        Posted by: Alex Gonzalez
        Date: Thu May 1 12:59:32 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Steve on April 30, 1997 at 20:23:00: That's it! I've had it now! I think we should start a petition to get "A Short Walk To Daylight" onto videocassette. It is possibly the greatest exposure that the NYC Subway System has ever had (okay, okay, Taking of Pelham Bay wasn't too shabby either!) and I want to know why this gem is not available. Does anybody have a recording off TV of this?
        
        Subject: Re: Subways in the movies
        Message Number: 754703
        Posted by: Jay Yudof
        Date: Thu May 1 17:10:17 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 19:12:13: Just as a point, errors seem to crop up in many, many movies due to cinematographic license (i.e., the need to change a fact for the sake of the story), or (I would guess) just as commonly, due to ignorance. Nautical friends are always teling me of meaningless or obscene signal flags. A common problem is anachronisms. A camera buff I know once had a whole movie spolied for him by seeing a single-lense reflex camera, when the action was set in the era before SLRs were invented. I lost the timeframe for the whole movie "School Ties", because an opening scene has a freight car being pulled by, and the car has a PC serial number. The movie was set in the fifties, but the Penn Centeral came in existence a decade afterward. Despite specialists, we constantly see anachronisms in clothing and language.

Thread title: Broad Street Line (Philly) (754551)
Started on Sat Apr 26 19:50:22 1997, by Ben

Subject: Broad Street Line (Philly)
Message Number: 754551
Posted by: Ben
Date: Sat Apr 26 19:50:22 1997

Does anyone know of any web sites containing track maps of the SEPTA System?
- Subject: Re: Broad Street Line (Philly)
- Message Number: 754558
- Posted by: FRED WELLAN
- Date: Sun Apr 27 10:24:37 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Broad Street Line (Philly) posted by Ben on April 26, 1997 at 19:50:22: If you would like a map of SEPTA go to www.libertynet.org/septa/rail/ rail/htm. I found it using Yahoo and SEPTA for search. It is a very good map with lines color coded including Regional Rail. I printed a copy in color and it came out great.
  - Subject: Re: Broad Street Line (Philly)
  - Message Number: 754579
  - Posted by: STEVE LOWENTHAL
  - Date: Mon Apr 28 10:37:12 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Broad Street Line (Philly) posted by Ben on April 26, 1997 at 19:50:22: WHAT TRACK MAPS DO U NEED ???
    - Subject: Re: Broad Street Line (Philly)
    - Message Number: 754580
    - Posted by: STEVE LOWENTHAL
    - Date: Mon Apr 28 10:38:07 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Broad Street Line (Philly) posted by Ben on April 26, 1997 at 19:50:22: WHAT TRACK MAPS DO U NEED ???
      - Subject: Re: Broad Street Line (Philly)
      - Message Number: 754584
      - Posted by: Ben
      - Date: Mon Apr 28 15:33:25 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Broad Street Line (Philly) posted by STEVE LOWENTHAL on April 28, 1997 at 10:37:12: Any track maps!!!

Thread title: Re: R-142s Looks are not everything (754555)
Started on Sat Apr 26 23:33:52 1997, by Steve

Subject: Re: R-142s Looks are not everything
Message Number: 754555
Posted by: Steve
Date: Sat Apr 26 23:33:52 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Philip I ate a gallon of ice cream and now I can't fit through a turnstile Nasadowski on April 24, 1997 at 15:38:28: Say what you will about the R-32s, of the original 600 cars purchased, 595 are still around 30+ years later. In addition, they have one of the highest MDBF (Mean Distance Between Failures) of all cars in the B Division. They may outlast some cars that were purchased more recently.
- Subject: Re: R-142s Looks are not everything
- Message Number: 754597
- Posted by: Andrew Huie
- Date: Mon Apr 28 20:42:19 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: R-142s Looks are not everything posted by Steve on April 26, 1997 at 23:33:52: Hmm, somehow I think a lot has to do with the people maintaining the cars. I can't believe the R42's are so delicate, considering they aren't that different from R-32's, aside from cosmetic differences (window size, metalworking on the outside, etc.).
  - Subject: Re: R-142s Looks are not everything
  - Message Number: 754648
  - Posted by: Steve
  - Date: Wed Apr 30 01:03:46 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: R-142s Looks are not everything posted by Andrew Huie on April 28, 1997 at 20:42:19: On the contrary, the only real similarity is the GE Group Switch Box. Otherwise, there are differences in the braking, controls, HVAC and door systems.

Thread title: Athens Subway (754566)
Started on Sun Apr 27 22:00:10 1997, by John

Subject: Athens Subway
Message Number: 754566
Posted by: John
Date: Sun Apr 27 22:00:10 1997

Does anybody have any information about the new subway in Athens, Greece? In particular, what type of trains are they using? How do they compare to a train used in the New York Subway?
- Subject: Re: Athens Subway
- Message Number: 754642
- Posted by: Dan Weissmann
- Date: Tue Apr 29 22:22:30 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Athens Subway posted by John on April 27, 1997 at 22:00:10: I haven't had thepleasure of riding it but there is at least one picture at www.tramway.com. Also check out SEJS Metasubway page, I know they've got info on it there. Good luck!

Thread title: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!) (754574)
Started on Mon Apr 28 07:31:32 1997, by Julio Perez

Subject: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!)
Message Number: 754574
Posted by: Julio Perez
Date: Mon Apr 28 07:31:32 1997

In Reply to: [6]Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!! posted by Keranu on April 28, 1997 at 05:36:56: Metro-Dade Transit Agency has had some success in using their Grumman buses and Westinghouse Metromovers (people movers) as moving billboards, covering their sides with wallpaper-like material to sell products and services. I think MARTA (Atlanta) does this, too. Although I don't think neither agency uses their rail equipment as such, and being my native NYC the city that it is today, it wouldn't be a bad idea for it to experiment using subway car exteriors as a means to draw revenue and NOT aesthetically unpleasing GRAFFITI!
- Subject: Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!)
- Message Number: 754589
- Posted by: John
- Date: Mon Apr 28 19:16:26 1997
  
  In Reply to: [5]Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!) posted by Julio Perez on April 28, 1997 at 07:31:32: Actually, I do agree a little bit with Keranu about graffiti. Graffiti did give the New York Subway personality and a tough look. I don't know. I have mixed feelings. However, the new craze seems to be window-scratching.
  - Subject: Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!)
  - Message Number: 754593
  - Posted by: Mark Greenwald
  - Date: Mon Apr 28 20:10:02 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!) posted by Julio Perez on April 28, 1997 at 07:31:32: This kind of advertising is not that uncommon---The Maryland Dept. of Transportaion uses the covers on the MTA buses in Baltimore. They look like tinting from inside the bus yet is an ad that runs the entire length of the bus.
    - Subject: Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!)
    - Message Number: 754616
    - Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
    - Date: Tue Apr 29 09:53:23 1997
      
      In Reply to: [6]Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!) posted by Mark Greenwald on April 28, 1997 at 20:10:02: In Boston we call the technique 'Shrink Wrap'. The Gardner Museum had at least two Green Line cars (71') decorated in this way. Follow the link from NYC Transit Resources to the New England Transit Site to see some on-line photos. No subway trains yet bit I think its coming.
      - Subject: Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!)
      - Message Number: 754647
      - Posted by: Steve
      - Date: Wed Apr 30 01:00:31 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: Not Graffiti, but ADVERTISING! (Was Re: Paint The R-142's RED!!!!!) posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 19:16:26: The window scratching is finding its way onto the LIRR. I think that the miscreants should be prosecuted and locked up when caught. If a person steals in excess of $250 it's a felony but if they damage $500 worth of glass, it's graffiti.

Thread title: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED (754582)
Started on Mon Apr 28 10:42:06 1997, by STEVE LOWENTHAL

Subject: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
Message Number: 754582
Posted by: STEVE LOWENTHAL
Date: Mon Apr 28 10:42:06 1997

LOOKING FOR UPDATED BUS ROSTERS----NYCTA,,LI BUS INCLUDING VEH NUNBERS,,,DATES,,MGFR,,,MODEL NUMBERS,,SERIES,,ETC,,THANKS
- Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
- Message Number: 754585
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Mon Apr 28 16:01:53 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by STEVE LOWENTHAL on April 28, 1997 at 10:42:06: Steve, I've been looking for this info. also for a long time now. For years I managed to store most TA (and nearly all MaBSTOA) bus numbers, depot assignments, model, manufacturer etc. excluding serial numbers, of course in my head. It's now harder for my to track NYCTA bus info. as I recently moved out of NYC. As for LIBUS I know some but not much about their fleet. I hope someone responds with the info.
  - Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
  - Message Number: 754660
  - Posted by: trolleybus
  - Date: Wed Apr 30 14:14:30 1997
    
    In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: you want all nyc transit bus numbers 3oo1- 3325 rts gmc 3400-3799 rts gmc 3800-3899 rts gmc express buses 4000-4218 rts gmc 4300-4599 rts tmc 4600-4899rts tmc 8000-8399 rts tmc 8401-8567 rts tmc 101-317 orion 8600-8703 rts tmc 400-630 orion 8750-9349 rts nova 631-680 orion
    - Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
    - Message Number: 754661
    - Posted by: trolleybus
    - Date: Wed Apr 30 14:26:41 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: you want all nyc transit bus numbers 3oo1- 3325 rts gmc 3400-3799 rts gmc 3800-3899 rts gmc express buses 4000-4218 rts gmc 4300-4599 rts tmc 4600-4899rts tmc 8000-8399 rts tmc 8401-8567 rts tmc 101-317 orion 8600-8703 rts tmc 400-630 orion 8750-9349 rts nova 631-680 orion
      - Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
      - Message Number: 754662
      - Posted by: trolleybus
      - Date: Wed Apr 30 14:27:59 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: you want all nyc transit bus numbers 3oo1- 3325 rts gmc 3400-3799 rts gmc 3800-3899 rts gmc express buses 4000-4218 rts gmc 4300-4599 rts tmc 4600-4899rts tmc 8000-8399 rts tmc 8401-8567 rts tmc 101-317 orion 8600-8703 rts tmc 400-630 orion 8750-9349 rts nova 631-680 orion
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754663
        Posted by: trolleybus
        Date: Wed Apr 30 14:31:57 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by trolleybus on April 30, 1997 at 14:14:30: buses date from 1983-1997. there are also several 1981-1982buses still in service.Also we have some remANUFACTURED BUSES 7000S.
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754664
        Posted by: trolleybus
        Date: Wed Apr 30 14:33:02 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: you want all nyc transit bus numbers 3oo1- 3325 rts gmc 3400-3799 rts gmc 3800-3899 rts gmc express buses 4000-4218 rts gmc 4300-4599 rts tmc 4600-4899rts tmc 8000-8399 rts tmc 8401-8567 rts tmc 101-317 orion 8600-8703 rts tmc 400-630 orion 8750-9349 rts nova 631-680 orion
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754665
        Posted by: TROLLEYBUS
        Date: Wed Apr 30 14:38:26 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by trolleybus on April 30, 1997 at 14:14:30: THERE ARE ALSO SEVERAL 1981-1982 GMCS STILLIN SERVICE. ALSO REMANUFACTURED BUSES 70000
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754669
        Posted by: TROLLEYBUS
        Date: Wed Apr 30 15:09:45 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: 3001-3325 1983GMC RTS 3400-3799 1984 GMC RTS 3800-3899 1985 GMC RTS EXPRESS BUSES 3900-4218 1985 GMC RTS 4300-4599 1986 TMC 4600-4899 1987 TMC RTS 8000-8399 1990 TMC RTS 8401-8567 1993 TMC RTS 101-317 1993 ORION 101-172 EXPRESS BUSES 8600-8703 1994 TMC RTS 400-630 1994 ORION 611-630 EXPRESS BUSES 8750-9349 1996 NOVA TMC RTS 631-680 ORION 1995 THERE ARE SOME 1981-1982 BUSES STILL IN SERVICE. ALSO NYC TRANSIT IS REMANUFACTURING 1981-1982 BUSES RENUMBERING 7000 SERIES. FOR ANY OTHER BUS INFO CONTACT ME THE BUS WHIZ
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754671
        Posted by: TROLLEYBUS
        Date: Wed Apr 30 15:14:13 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by Wayne Johnson on April 28, 1997 at 16:01:53: 3001-3325 1983GMC RTS 3400-3799 1984 GMC RTS 3800-3899 1985 GMC RTS EXPRESS BUSES 3900-4218 1985 GMC RTS 4300-4599 1986 TMC 4600-4899 1987 TMC RTS 8000-8399 1990 TMC RTS 8401-8567 1993 TMC RTS 101-317 1993 ORION 101-172 EXPRESS BUSES 8600-8703 1994 TMC RTS 400-630 1994 ORION 611-630 EXPRESS BUSES 8750-9349 1996 NOVA TMC RTS 631-680 ORION 1995 THERE ARE SOME 1981-1982 BUSES STILL IN SERVICE. ALSO NYC TRANSIT IS REMANUFACTURING 1981-1982 BUSES RENUMBERING 7000 SERIES. FOR ANY OTHER BUS INFO CONTACT ME THE BUS WHIZ
        
        Subject: Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED
        Message Number: 754674
        Posted by: Wayne Johnson
        Date: Wed Apr 30 16:49:22 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: BUS ROSTERS NYCTA LIBUS--DETAILED posted by TROLLEYBUS on April 30, 1997 at 14:38:26: I've seen the rebuilt 7000's operating out of Queen Village depot and 1 (7001) at the Gun Hill depot. If I remember correctly the 1982-83 GM RTS's were the 1660-1859, 2580-2704. I rode 2700 recently and even though it shows it's age it did seem to be full of life.

Thread title: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim! (754587)
Started on Mon Apr 28 19:07:01 1997, by John

Subject: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim!
Message Number: 754587
Posted by: John
Date: Mon Apr 28 19:07:01 1997

In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies posted by Mark Greenwald on April 28, 1997 at 10:06:16: You mean there was actually a movie that had PATH scenes in it? When was this movie made and what is it about? Also, are there any other movies with PATH scenes in them?
- Subject: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim!
- Message Number: 754605
- Posted by: Jim
- Date: Mon Apr 28 23:46:22 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim! posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 19:07:01: There was only one brief scene of PATH in "Gloria", which dates back to the mid 70s. The movie is about a woman who is protecting a young boy from the mobsters who killed the rest of his family. She takes the boy and heads for New Jersey, hence the PATH scene.
  - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim!
  - Message Number: 754610
  - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
  - Date: Tue Apr 29 06:57:42 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim! posted by Jim on April 28, 1997 at 23:46:22: Hey, I sorta remember a Path train at the end of *Speed* In the scene where they are stuck on the L.A. subway (he he he he), the car that flys up out of the ground and lands on its side looked almost like a Path car (that and I think there was a poorly spray blacked out Path logo on the front...) I dunno though - anyone actually got that movie on tape anywhere??
    - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim!
    - Message Number: 754620
    - Posted by: Gary Jacobi
    - Date: Tue Apr 29 11:31:06 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim! posted by Jim on April 28, 1997 at 23:46:22: With all the complaints about lack of Subway realism in Hollywood, why do we accept the concept of escaping from the Mob by GOING TO NEW JERSEY !!!
      - Subject: Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim!
      - Message Number: 754629
      - Posted by: John
      - Date: Tue Apr 29 17:13:53 1997
        
        In Reply to: [5]Re: Subways in the movies - Hey Jim! posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 29, 1997 at 06:57:42: I have that movie on videotape, but I haven't really looked that closely at the subway car. I will check it tonight, though.

Thread title: subway car manufacturer websites (754601)
Started on Mon Apr 28 21:55:46 1997, by Lefty

Subject: subway car manufacturer websites
Message Number: 754601
Posted by: Lefty
Date: Mon Apr 28 21:55:46 1997

could you list any subway car manufacturer websites that you know of? i know bombardier has www.bombardier.com.. what about amrail and st louis and all that...
- Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
- Message Number: 754612
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Tue Apr 29 09:18:35 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]subway car manufacturer websites posted by Lefty on April 28, 1997 at 21:55:46: Lefty, I believe the St. Louis Car Company went out of business after completing the R-44 contract in 1973.
  - Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
  - Message Number: 754622
  - Posted by: Mark S Feinman
  - Date: Tue Apr 29 12:57:11 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]subway car manufacturer websites posted by Lefty on April 28, 1997 at 21:55:46: Maybe try the WWW site of the American Public Transit Association http://www.apta.com for links to various subway car manufacturers. --Mark
    - Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
    - Message Number: 754645
    - Posted by: Philip Nasadowski
    - Date: Tue Apr 29 23:04:47 1997
      
      In Reply to: [5]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by Wayne Johnson on April 29, 1997 at 09:18:35: Ok - it goes like this: St Louis Car - gone Pullman - gone Budd - gone Pressed Steel - gone ACF - Out of the passenger business (are they still around?) The only U.S. car (re) manufacturer is MK, they built the M6 for MN's New Haven line...
      - Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
      - Message Number: 754657
      - Posted by: David Steckler
      - Date: Wed Apr 30 09:42:35 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 29, 1997 at 23:04:47: > Yep. I believe they are headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri.
        
        Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
        Message Number: 754679
        Posted by: Bryan Layne
        Date: Wed Apr 30 17:25:58 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by David Steckler on April 30, 1997 at 09:42:35: Isn't Morrison Knudsen "Amerail" or something like that now?
        
        Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
        Message Number: 754680
        Posted by: Bryan Layne
        Date: Wed Apr 30 17:26:21 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by David Steckler on April 30, 1997 at 09:42:35: Isn't Morrison Knudsen "Amerail" or something like that now?
        
        Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
        Message Number: 754681
        Posted by: Bryan Layne
        Date: Wed Apr 30 17:26:28 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by David Steckler on April 30, 1997 at 09:42:35: Isn't Morrison Knudsen "Amerail" or something like that now?
        
        Subject: Re: subway car manufacturer websites
        Message Number: 754688
        Posted by: MJS
        Date: Wed Apr 30 20:19:14 1997
        
        In Reply to: [6]Re: subway car manufacturer websites posted by Philip Nasadowski on April 29, 1997 at 23:04:47: General Electric rebuilt the R-38 for the NYCTA.

Thread title: Re: STRAPHANGER (clarification attempt) (754619)
Started on Tue Apr 29 11:24:40 1997, by Gary Jacobi

Subject: Re: STRAPHANGER (clarification attempt)
Message Number: 754619
Posted by: Gary Jacobi
Date: Tue Apr 29 11:24:40 1997

In Reply to: [5]STRAPHANGER!! posted by John on April 28, 1997 at 19:24:12: We have a bit of a generation gap here. What many of you seem to be talking about I consider to be something of a second generation strap which first was used on R-10's. Older cars actually had approximately 15" leather straps hung from a bar. If you were the "correct" height, these worked ok. If you were short, you might not be able to reach them. Tall guys like me had little use for them, since we could not hang on to them as intended. No tension on the strap equalled no support. Fortunately the bar above could still be grasped, and that is what I learned to do. The R-10 style was better for me, because it was rigid laterally and only swung forward on a hinge. Even if you had a hold of it up on the loop, you still were fairly stable against being thrown fore and aft, which is the usual subway motion. Holding onto a horizontal bar was always a poor substitute, because with your hand horizontal, you give away a lot of strength against this motion, so I am not surprised that the rigid straps are missed, although I agree that a whack in the head from one of them ( And I received plenty at 6'6") could ruin your whole day!

Thread title: WMATA Remaining GM fishbowls (754623)
Started on Tue Apr 29 13:18:46 1997, by Wayne Johnson

Subject: WMATA Remaining GM fishbowls
Message Number: 754623
Posted by: Wayne Johnson
Date: Tue Apr 29 13:18:46 1997

The majority of these coaches are TDH-5304's (40' X 96") The are a few T6H-5305 (40' X 102") and T6H-5306 (40' X 96") I won't swear to it, but I almost sure I caught a glimpse of either an T6H-5307 or 5308, but I was driving and it was giong in the opposite direction. Of course the days are numbered for these coaches, but they are easy to find if you're in Downtown Washington on weekedays.
- Subject: Re: WMATA Remaining GM fishbowls
- Message Number: 754672
- Posted by: Wayne Johnson
- Date: Wed Apr 30 16:31:54 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]WMATA Remaining GM fishbowls posted by Wayne Johnson on April 29, 1997 at 13:18:46: WMATA's active GM fishbowls also include a few TDH-5302's. These are somewhat difficult to find.

Thread title: Hudson/Bergen Waterfront Lightrail (754626)
Started on Tue Apr 29 16:20:27 1997, by Matt

Subject: Hudson/Bergen Waterfront Lightrail
Message Number: 754626
Posted by: Matt
Date: Tue Apr 29 16:20:27 1997

Who has information, maps, station locations for the future Lightrail that will run from Bayonne to Hoboken NJ? Any info is appreciated!
- Subject: Re: Hudson/Bergen Waterfront Lightrail
- Message Number: 754668
- Posted by: Ted
- Date: Wed Apr 30 15:01:25 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]Hudson/Bergen Waterfront Lightrail posted by Matt on April 29, 1997 at 16:20:27: Matt , The Feb.21,1997 copy of the Jesey Journal has a map and article on the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail. You can get it ( if it's still available , I got my copy 3 weeks ago ) at 30 Journal Square , Jersey City. Another place you can look is Hudson TMA's web site at : http://www.hudsontma.org/ By the way , I recently drove along the Bayonne section of the route and saw a sign marking where the 8th Street station / stop will be. I also saw some construction trailers on the route. Ted

Thread title: New Website Format (754632)
Started on Tue Apr 29 18:51:54 1997, by Gary Jacobi

Subject: New Website Format
Message Number: 754632
Posted by: Gary Jacobi
Date: Tue Apr 29 18:51:54 1997

With the new short format, which was sorely needed, we will all have to learn to either repeat the message we are replying to, or as a minimum make sure our message makes sense standing alone!
- Subject: Re: New Website Format
- Message Number: 754641
- Posted by: David Pirmann
- Date: Tue Apr 29 21:11:57 1997
  
  In Reply to: [6]New Website Format posted by Gary Jacobi on April 29, 1997 at 18:51:54: Well, there is still work to be done in getting the archives working properly. Sorry :-) --Dave
  - Subject: Re: New Website Format
  - Message Number: 754701
  - Posted by: Gerry O'Regan
  - Date: Thu May 1 16:15:01 1997
    
    In Reply to: [6]New Website Format posted by Gary Jacobi on April 29, 1997 at 18:51:54: Despite the flaws, the whole thing is working much better! Thank you Dave.

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