Old SubTalk Archive Posts 9000-9999
NEXT>9002
PREVIOUS>8999
POSTER>Joe M
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SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:35 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 28, 1998 at 23:28:35:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Dan Lawrence
on January 28, 1998 at 13:57:40:
The Marker allways works though. The electronic signs on buses are
actually pretty reliable. The run numbers are harder to get
coordinated with the right run though.
The roll curtains are still the easiest to read, can be color coded to
help people with poor vision find the right buses but they are
expesnive to update for route changes. Sometimes simpler was better.
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NEXT>9019
PREVIOUS>8981
POSTER>Adam
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SUBJECT>Re: QueensBorough Plaza
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:39 1998
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Posted by Adam on January 29, 1998 at 00:07:58:
In Reply to: [8]Re: QueensBorough Plaza posted by Jeffrey Davis on
January 28, 1998 at 15:45:45:
I know of the renovation through a huge article in the Western Queens
Gazette, a local newspaper in Queens. The article was in an issue a
few months ago. I think that there were some postings on it back then
on here. Anyway, they were going to start it soon but a large number
of people protested because of the existing 63rd Street tunnel
construction, saying that both projects at once would cause incredible
congestion in the area there. So the start date was delayed at least 6
months or so until they can clear the area out somehow. As for details
I don't remember but if you can find a copy of the Gazette the article
described everything.
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NEXT>9015
PREVIOUS>9000
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
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SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:43 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on January 29, 1998 at 00:25:02:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Joe M on
January 28, 1998 at 23:28:35:
I still am not in favor of electronic signs, but only for the "inform
the passenger" mode. I know that all the possible signs can be coded
on 1 or 2 chips and every vehicle can be used on every line, but the
electronics are still too fragile IMHO.
Just as a side: At the Baltimore Streetcar Museum, our 1930 Peter Witt
was used on every line in the system that had loops at each end. To
equip 6119 with correct signs for every line that used Witts takes 5
sets of roll signs, 2 identical rolls for each set. Exactly what the
company did between 1930 and 1955. That was typical of every streetcar
in the Baltimore system.
That (and complete bus fleet interchangability) was why systems
retrofitted
older fishbowls with dot signs about 1985, even if they don't work
right 50 per cent of the time.
Maybe LED signs may be more reliable. We shall see.
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NEXT>9006
PREVIOUS>8993
POSTER>Gary
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SUBJECT>Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:45 1998
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Posted by Gary on January 29, 1998 at 01:27:13:
In Reply to: [8]Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s posted by Phil Kane on
January 28, 1998 at 21:45:31:
One of the modelers onboard the USS Intrepid Air and Space Museum
suggested that I look into modeling NYC subway cars. Its not my style,
working on small stuff to scale. But there must be some one doing it.
If theres not I guess its a project to look into.
How about it ....Any subway modelers out there?
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Transit View administrator
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SUBJECT>Transit Employees Messageboards
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:47 1998
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Posted by Transit View administrator on January 29, 1998 at 01:42:27:
Taking it's test flight, er..... test run, yes thats it!! Test Run!!!
If your an NYCTA employee and would like to post your views and news
and whatever else might be loitering between your ears. Join your
co-workers. You don't even have to sign your name if your don't want
to!!!
We understand :)
The Address is:
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb41109
Make the Web work for YOU!!! This is not a Union site, nor is it
supported by the NYCTA. Special thanks to Dave Pirmann for
encouragement and informative guidence.
TELL YOUR CO-WORKERS ONLINE
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poustka
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SUBJECT>signal,simulator game to PC,price
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:49 1998
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Posted by Marek Poustka on January 29, 1998 at 06:48:43:
My name is Marek and I live in Czech Republic.
I can travell to New York.
Please,send to me guide to signal in New York subway and
price guide for New York Public Transit Transport.
Have you somebody good railroad or subway simulator game for PC.
Please write to me.to my e-mail.
my email is: poustka@hotmail.com
or my adress:
Marek Poustka
Stavbaru 211
Strakonice 2
38602
Czech republic
EUROPE
Thank you very much.Mr.Poustka
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NEXT>9007
PREVIOUS>9003
POSTER>Frank Gatazka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:51 1998
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Posted by Frank Gatazka on January 29, 1998 at 08:02:02:
In Reply to: [8]Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s posted by Phil Kane on
January 28, 1998 at 21:45:31:
I'm currently modeling the NYCTA circa 1950-1970. Since subways are
VERY difficult to model, I've built a model elevated railroad in HO
scale. Currently, I have sixteen feet out of a planned forty feet
completed. The line features two stations, one modelled loosely after
the Third Avenue (Manhatten) local stations, and the other, a
terminal, modelled after Ditmars Blvd. on the Astoria Line. You can
see photos of some of my work, including the local station and model
subway cars at Mr. P. Villani's web site:
www.iop.com/~patv/railroad.html. Mr. Villani also posts a list of
references for subway/elevated modelers that would be of interest to
you.
Mr. Villani is also a subway/elevated modeler and is writing about his
efforts. This is all detailed in his web site. Although there is MUCH
more equipment available today for modelers than when I started, you
still have to understand that modeling the NYCTA is the relam of the
dedicated scratchbuilder. It has taken me about five years to build
the sixteen feet of structure I have now, which is built entirely from
about 10,000 pieces of basswood, bristol board, and styrene assembled
in jigs. This is by no means meant to discourage you, only to alert
you to the magnitude of the effort required even for a modest model.
Start accumulating the above references. They are essential reading
for background, techniques, ideas etc.
As far as commercially available models go, check the archives at this
site. A while back, I wrote a posting that listed the available models
to date in HO scale. If you can't find it, let me know, and I'll
repost the list with the models, dates and manufacturers. Keep in mind
though, that most, if not all, of these models are extremely limited
run, and most are no longer produced. Many are imported brass models,
which become available from time to time on the secondary market, but
when they do, they are VERY EXPENSIVE. Again, not to discourage, just
to advise!
GOOD LUCK!
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NEXT>9010
PREVIOUS>9006
POSTER>Steve B
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SUBJECT>Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:52 1998
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Posted by Steve B on January 29, 1998 at 08:09:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s posted by Gary on
January 29, 1998 at 01:27:13:
I have seen model kits of the R-1/9 and BMT standard. Both are HO
scale. They were advertised in one of the model railroading magazines;
however, this was about ten years ago. You had to provide your own
running gear, as I recall. Sorry about the sketchy information;
suffice it to say such models do exist.
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NEXT>9016
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas (Bay Area) (To Alan F.)
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:55 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on January 29, 1998 at 08:11:35:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas (Bay Area) posted by
Alan Follett on January 28, 1998 at 18:07:18:
On MUNI, are there any buses (diesel or electric) in service with
electronic signs? I always liked their arrangement with the curtain
split 50-50 in front, like "30 Stockton S.P. Depot"
(I remember that example from a picture of an AM General in the book,
INSIDE MUNI)
Michael S. Buglak
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>aaron
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SUBJECT>mystery subway
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:57 1998
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Posted by aaron on January 29, 1998 at 08:24:36:
Take a look at page 3 on NY Times Metro section today. The caption
says it
is a train at Roosevelt Island. It certainly doesn't look like R-40 Q?
What is it?
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NEXT>9014
PREVIOUS>9007
POSTER>David Pirmann
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SUBJECT>Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s
DATE>Jan 31 23:10:59 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on January 29, 1998 at 08:43:22:
In Reply to: [8]Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s posted by Phil Kane on
January 28, 1998 at 21:45:31:
We have a list of subway model vendors online at [9]here.
-Dave
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NEXT>9017
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Nick
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SUBJECT>R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:01 1998
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Posted by Nick on January 29, 1998 at 08:56:10:
I was wondering why one of the terminals (Astoria/Forest Hills)was
switched a number of years ago. Can anyone help me out?-Nick
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NEXT>9020
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Nick
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SUBJECT>Re: mystery subway (read the article carefully!)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:03 1998
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Posted by Nick on January 29, 1998 at 09:00:21:
In Reply to: [8]mystery subway posted by aaron on January 29, 1998 at
08:24:36:
Aaron,
You misread the article. That picture is the Roosevelt tram...which
went out of service 2 days ago, and was just replaced by subway. Thats
what the article is about. Unless I misread the article too :) -Nick
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
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SUBJECT>Atlantic Terminal
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:05 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on January 29, 1998 at 09:01:27:
In Reply to: [7]mystery subway posted by aaron on January 29, 1998 at
08:24:36:
You may have noticed that Forest City Ratner (seemingly the only
developer willing to invest in Brooklyn) has reached an agreement to
build a 480,000 square foot shopping center atop the Flatbush and
Atlantic complex. This is good news. The news article notes that the
design is expected to be completed by the third quarter of 1998.
I just wonder if the MTA has the foresight to insist that the pillar
placement preserves the best alignment for a possible LIRR extension
futher into Downtown Brooklyn and on into Manhattan. Not that such an
extension should be a high priority for anyone other than the Downtown
Manhattan Association. But the future is a long time, and the design
should at least not preclude such an extension thoughtlessly.
Does anyone know if there is a plan.
PS when I hit post a message, it doesn't work. Therefore, it seems I
can respond, but not initiate. That is why this appears under RE.
Perhaps that is just as well.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9010
POSTER>Bob A
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SUBJECT>Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:09 1998
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Posted by Bob A on January 29, 1998 at 09:29:26:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Modeling the NYCTA - 1950s posted by Steve B on
January 29, 1998 at 08:09:00:
I recently saw at a train show a three car N-scale set of what looked
like 1950's or 1960's R units. They were $229, without motors!
I am currently trying to build an N-scale elevated train layout. I'm
not a stickler on detail, and I only have an 8' by 4' piece of plywood
to work with, but I'm trying to model it loosely based on the Myrtle
Ave. line from Wyckoff to Metropolitan (near where I grew up) . It
will (I hope) also include some surface running trolley cars.
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NEXT>9021
PREVIOUS>9002
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
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SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:13 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on January 29, 1998 at 09:40:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Dan Lawrence
on January 29, 1998 at 00:25:02:
What gets me about those electronic signs is that on the older ones
you need 2 alternating displays to get the name right. On more recent
ones here in Washington they can finally display two lines of text at
a time. I hate on the older electronic signs when it says "70 Silver",
then "Spring Station", for example. The worst is when the words "Good
Evening" or "Have a Nice Day" are put in the cycle also.
It seems that in NYC some of the trains have electronic signs, like
the F, N, and R trains. While they have always looked right to me, the
line color (orange, yellow, etc.) is no longer on the sign.
DC trains have electronic signs too. The front has the word "Red" or
"Blue" in yellow lit letters, which seems strange to me (plus an unlit
piece of cardboard showing the color hanging on the front door). The
signs on the sides have two vertical lines of the correct color
followed by the destination in yellow lights. But they are almost
never wrong.
The Baltimore and Miami trains have electronic signs, too, with almost
no room for a destination. In Baltimore "Johns" alternates with
"Hopkins". "Luckily" (not really) both systems have only one line so
no one has to read them anyway.
Chicago's idea was the cleverest. Just say which train it is, let the
rider figure out where the train is going by what platform it is on.
Their signs say something like "Congress-O'Hare" on a blue sign. In
NYC that wouldn't work so well because the destinations of lots of
trains change.
Enough rambling for now...
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PREVIOUS>9008
POSTER>Alan Follett
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SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas (Bay Area) (To Alan F.)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:16 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on January 29, 1998 at 09:52:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas (Bay Area) (To Alan
F.) posted by Michael S. Buglak on January 29, 1998 at 08:11:35:
I don't recall ever seeing a flip-dot sign on Muni--if there are any,
they are few and experimental. Good old highly legible white-on-black
roller signs are still the system standard. Split vs. full-width signs
depend on the class of equipment. Sorry, I can't be very specific on
exact classes; I'm afraid that my transit interests run more to rail,
with my trolley-besotted brain tending to dismiss the rubber-tired
stock as just part of the scenery;-)
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NEXT>9018
PREVIOUS>9011
POSTER>sdc-foti
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SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:19 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on January 29, 1998 at 10:18:18:
In Reply to: [7]R and N switch....why? posted by Nick on January 29,
1998 at 08:56:10:
Nick,
Equitable access to the yards, it seemed that one of the lines didn't
have any access to the yard (forgot, which line it was.)
Foti-
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NEXT>9022
PREVIOUS>9017
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:22 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on January 29, 1998 at 11:02:40:
In Reply to: [7]R and N switch....why? posted by Nick on January 29,
1998 at 08:56:10:
Yup to get one terminus for the R train near a yard. When the R ran to
Astoria and 92nd St there wasn't any yard near the terminus. Now the N
has the Coney Island Yard and the R has the one out there (forgot the
name)near Jamica.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9001
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
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SUBJECT>Re: QueensBorough Plaza
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:25 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on January 29, 1998 at 11:10:01:
In Reply to: [7]Re: QueensBorough Plaza posted by Adam on January 29,
1998 at 00:07:58:
I work right on Queens Plaza (near 29th St). The congestion is bad
anyway. I am not looking foward to the NOISE of construction on the
above ground station!!!
N Train squeels enough coming around the curve.
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NEXT>9027
PREVIOUS>9012
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mystery subway (read the article carefully!)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:27 1998
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Posted by Adam on January 29, 1998 at 11:31:44:
In Reply to: [8]Re: mystery subway (read the article carefully!)
posted by Nick on January 29, 1998 at 09:00:21:
On the 27th of January, the tram got into an accident with a crane
working on the Queensboro Bridge. The Manhattan-bound tram was rammed
by the crane carrying a steel beam, throwing the passengers about. I
guess the article (which I didn't read) is about more people using the
subway now that the tram is out of service. But what I'm wondering is
why don't people use the subway anyway, it seems much faster, cheaper,
and better than the tram. Although the tram is pretty cool; I would
recommend riding it once if you've never done that before!
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NEXT>9028
PREVIOUS>9015
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:31 1998
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Posted by Steve B on January 29, 1998 at 11:35:48:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Wayne
Johnson on January 28, 1998 at 23:01:12:
There was a similar variation on the B theme on R-32s when they were
new. The B line as we know it today (regular weekday service) debuted
when the Chrystie St. connection opened. It replaced both the West End
T route and the rush-hour BB service. Prior to 1967, as far as I know,
there had never been a B line, and while the R-1/9s had B signs,
including a "B/6th Ave. Express" on the side route signs, the R-32s
and R-38s did not - at least not on the bulkhead roller curtain; I
never saw a "B/6th Ave. Express" marking on the side signs of R-32s or
R-38s. I vividly remember seeing B trains of R-32s with a B covering
the BB marking (which was still visible) on the end bulkhead sign, as
well as a similar B covering the BB on the side route sign of each
car. Subsequently, colored marker roller curtains were installed in
the bulkhead destination sign openings on R-32s, R-38s, and most
R-16s. I would guess the reason they wanted a "B/6th Ave. Local"
designation was because the B ran - and still runs - local along
Central Park West. It didn't always run express along 6th Ave back
then - only during rush hours. On top of that, between Nov 26, 1967
and July 1, 1968, B trains terminated at W. 4th St. during non-rush
hours. This is because while the 6th Ave. express tracks went into
service on Nov.26, the 57th St.-6th Ave. station didn't open until
July 1, 1968. After July 1, B trains terminated at 57th St during
non-rush hours and ran local along 6th Ave; during rush hours, they
terminated at 168th St-Wash. Hts., running express along 6th Ave. and
local along Cental Park West. It wasn't until much later (when the
63rd St tunnel opened, perhaps?) that the B began running express
along 6th Ave during middays, evenings, and weekends.
Sorry about rambling on and on - I never get tired of talking about
the New York subway.
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NEXT>9030
PREVIOUS>9018
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:33 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on January 29, 1998 at 12:16:17:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Lou from Brooklyn
on January 29, 1998 at 11:02:40:
The name is Jamaica Yard, even though it's not in Jamaica. It's closer
to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens
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NEXT>9025
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael B.
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SUBJECT>Trash on tracks
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:36 1998
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Posted by Michael B. on January 29, 1998 at 12:30:09:
I'm sure we've all noticed that in many stations the tracks are
absolutely filthy, with everything from old newspapers, cups, pens, to
batteries. Why doesn't the MTA get some of those big vacuums and clean
it out? Too expensive?
Michael
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Al
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas Syracuse
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:40 1998
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Posted by Al on January 29, 1998 at 12:56:33:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Joe M on
January 28, 1998 at 23:28:35:
Here in Snow, ah Syracuse we have the curtain signs, but a lot of them
are very old and the lettering is white on light green. I have seen
two busses, brand new, that use a sign that can display three colors -
Red Green and Amber, which helps because the various info conveyed is
color coded - From the busses I saw, route is Red, destination Green,
and next scheduled stop or passenger info is Amber.
ex-
S CAROUSEL CENTER EXPRESS
1 --Shopping ctr only--
Of course, in Syracuse, the bus system is broke so to see a retrofit
of the blue beasts (if you have ever seen one, you know what I mean)
with them...
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NEXT>9026
PREVIOUS>9023
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Trash on tracks
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:42 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on January 29, 1998 at 14:46:22:
In Reply to: [8]Trash on tracks posted by Michael B. on January 29,
1998 at 12:30:09:
I'm sure we'd all like to see the system cleaner. I think we'd see a
huge improvement if some of the straphangers would stop using
platforms and the trains as their personal garbage disposal.
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NEXT>9033
PREVIOUS>9025
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Trash on tracks
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:44 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on January 29, 1998 at 15:40:25:
In Reply to: [8]Trash on tracks posted by Michael B. on January 29,
1998 at 12:30:09:
Within the past year or so the TA took delivery of this fancy
expensive vacuum train. I don't know how much it's actually been used,
but most of the Manhattan tracks look like they haven't been cleaned
in eons, so I suspect the answer is "not much."
Of course, it *would* help immeasurably if riders were cleaner. It's
not like there aren't any trash cans on the platforms.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9020
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mystery subway (read the article carefully!)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:47 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on January 29, 1998 at 16:53:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: mystery subway (read the article carefully!)
posted by Nick on January 29, 1998 at 09:00:21:
Apparently there is a photo there taken in the subway. According to a
message posted on the nyc.transit newsgroup, the mystery train is the
"track geometry car" used to inspect tracks for defects.
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NEXT>9058
PREVIOUS>9021
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:50 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on January 29, 1998 at 17:00:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Steve B on
January 28, 1998 at 17:42:26:
I knew about the N-on-the-B-line in the "French Connection" movie. I
wondered why it was done. It seems unlikely that the R-42 cars used in
the movie wouldn't have both "N" and "B" on the same roll signs,
though I guess it is possible. Another theory I heard (or read) is
that the movie director wanted the sign to be colorful, but the "B" at
the time was represented by a black background, not colorful enough.
So they went with the "N" sign instead. Anyway, N trains are sometimes
rerouted via the B line, so seeing such a train is not impossible.
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NEXT>9031
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Joshua Caesar
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:53 1998
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Posted by Joshua Caesar on January 29, 1998 at 19:32:43:
Ok everyone, set your VCRs. Sunday, 9pm, on ABC. ABC has made a remake
of pelham 1-2-3, with Donnie Walberg. Donnie was just on MTV live
promoting the movie. I wonder if this will be as good as the original?
Josh Caesar
studlyjc@aol.com
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NEXT>9039
PREVIOUS>9022
POSTER>Josh Caesar
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:56 1998
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Posted by Josh Caesar on January 29, 1998 at 19:39:38:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Wayne Johnson on
January 29, 1998 at 12:16:17:
Wayne Johnson wrote: "The name is Jamaica Yard, even though it's not
in Jamaica. It's closer to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens "
Scotland Yard is named so, even though it is in London. :-)
JC
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NEXT>9037
PREVIOUS>9029
POSTER>Daniel
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Jan 31 23:11:58 1998
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Posted by Daniel on January 29, 1998 at 19:48:38:
In Reply to: [8]REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR) posted
by Joshua Caesar on January 29, 1998 at 19:32:43:
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY will ever replace Walter M. in the
original... Donnie W.? Boy, I guess there's not a lot of talent left
in showbiz...
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NEXT>9035
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:01 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on January 29, 1998 at 19:59:01:
Does anyone have the construction and openening dates for the
IRT West Farms/White Plains Rd extension.
Thanks.
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NEXT>9077
PREVIOUS>9026
POSTER>Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Trash on tracks
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:03 1998
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Posted by Michael Lyons on January 29, 1998 at 20:14:30:
In Reply to: [8]Trash on tracks posted by Michael B. on January 29,
1998 at 12:30:09:
While working the 6 train a few weeks ago I saw the new vacuum train.
It was either at Hunts Point Av or 3Av-E138St. It was after midnight
and it was on M Track(Middle). Part of the crew was off the train and
on the platform. I am not sure what they were doing but I got the
impression they were inspecting it. I only got a quick look at it. It
appeared to be about six cars long, very stremline look, it appeared
to be single unit married by large hoses, larger than 55 gal drums in
diameter. The whole thing was yellow. It had a transverse operating
position at each end, sloped front.
There appeared to 3 people in the one operatin position I could see
clearly. It looked brand new and very clean.
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NEXT>9036
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:08 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on January 29, 1998 at 20:51:48:
I was thinking, there are some areas of the NYC subway system that
have transfer areas that I find useless (e.g. why are there three (3)
transfer points consecutively between the Lexington line and the
Nassau St. line (Canal, B. Bridge, and Fulton)? I have a couple of
ideas what could happen in the subway before 2000:
1) Re-open the Bergen St. lower level on the F and G... To make it
work, they could have it open only during rush hour and midday (say
6am to 8pm)... That way, faster service could be provided on the F...
Then, extend the G to Chrurch Avenue ONLY DURING THE WEEK from 6am -
8pm... Then, if people wanted to take the F during that time from Ft.
Hamilton, 15th St., 4th Ave., Smith-9 Sts., and Carrol St., they could
take the G and transfer to the F at 7th Ave. and Bergen St.
2) If they intend to extend the B trains to Bedford Pk. during rush
hours, then, in order not to have more delays than it already has, run
the B express from Coney Island to 9th Avenue IN PEAK DIRECTION...
Then, extend the M local to Coney Island... This could solve a lot of
problems of congestion on the West End line and maybe bring back some
of the old riders (remember, this was rated by Newsday as the WORST
line in the last 2 years)...
3) This is NOT going to be built by 2000, but hopefully the idea could
be thought out and the process could begin: WE NEED THE SECOND AVE.
SUBWAY! And for anybody to disagree, just take a ride on the 4 during
the morning rush (especially from the Bronx)... If you want to take
the train at 125th or 86th Street, YOU CAN'T... It's too crowded! I
don't want anything fancy... You could build it either all the way
down to Pearl St. (like the original plan called for), or, if that's
too much work, make a spur off of the Lexington Ave.-63rd St.
station... Make that a transfer staion (remember, this will have a
connection to Queens Boulevard), and run the line up 2nd Ave. to say
149th Street and 3rd Avenue... That's it! I would have liked the train
line to service the Southeastern Bronx, but that may be too much to
ask...
4) Lastly, if one major airport has train service (the A), then LGA
should get a line... This one will probably be the hardest to do... or
maybe not. Let's see: You could use the LIC station as the starting
point for two reasons: A) Don't bring in another line to Manhattan...
Just make a transfer to the 7 at Vernon-Jackson; and B) Since the LIRR
will close the service between LIC and Jamaica via Fresh Pond, let's
not have the tracks go to waste. So, you reinforce them (or put in a
new track bed), and run this train until the old Glendale junction (if
my memory serves me correctly, this is where either the Bay Ridge
Branch or the Rockaway Branch met up with this line... Here, you run
the train north along the existing trackbed ONLY up to a couple of
miles short of the Main line junction... Here, a tunnel could be
made... Have a transfer point at the Main line... Then the train could
run north until it reaches LGA... That way, you don't have to disrupt
service on the main line, and since the Junction could be revived, a
special shuttle could run between the two airports (kill two birds
with one stone {I apologize to all the animal rights' activists})...
Well, enough rambling... If I could get one of my ideas to work, I'll
be happy... But, knowing the MTA, they certainly will not go "My Way."
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NEXT>9042
PREVIOUS>9032
POSTER>Daniel
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:11 1998
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Posted by Daniel on January 29, 1998 at 20:54:40:
In Reply to: [8]West Farms/White Plains Rd extension posted by Mellow
One on January 29, 1998 at 19:59:01:
HUH?! What West Farms extension?
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NEXT>9041
PREVIOUS>9034
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:15 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on January 29, 1998 at 21:24:34:
In Reply to: [8]How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted by
Daniel A. Valles on January 29, 1998 at 20:51:48:
Regarding service to LaGuardia airport, an easier solution would be an
extension of the N train. There are no major obstacles to block an
extension at Ditmars Boulevard, and a line to the airport could be
built with no more than minimal interference with private property.
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NEXT>9038
PREVIOUS>9031
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:22 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 29, 1998 at 21:59:58:
In Reply to: [8]REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR) posted
by Joshua Caesar on January 29, 1998 at 19:32:43:
Ummm....Weeeellllllll.....
It's be interesting to watch it anyway, given that Toronto's oversized
trains don't look ANYTHING like IRT equipment..but then again, we all
know that "all IRT cars are 75 feet long" ;)
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NEXT>9045
PREVIOUS>9037
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:26 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 29, 1998 at 22:09:25:
In Reply to: [8]REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR) posted
by Joshua Caesar on January 29, 1998 at 19:32:43:
HE HE he... ABC's web site actually had a blurb on it and a few clips.
Yep, those are Toronto's cars. I guess at least the out of towners
don't know the difference. Oh well, take a look, sorry I couldn't
embed the link..
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NEXT>9056
PREVIOUS>9030
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:30 1998
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Posted by Steve on January 29, 1998 at 22:45:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Lou from Brooklyn
on January 29, 1998 at 11:02:40:
Great explanation. Oddly enough, the yard near Jamaica is called
Jamaica Yard.....
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NEXT>9051
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In the Know
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Jan 31 23:12:35 1998
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Posted by In the Know on January 29, 1998 at 22:59:02:
Contrary to what has been reported here periodically, the TA has
decided to ride out the public outcry and leave the R-40s on the Q
line until at least mid 1999. The R-68As will follow the B line to The
Bronx and may even be seen on OPTO trains for weekend duty on the C
line. RTO feels that the small cabs on the R-44s will slow up OPTO
service.
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NEXT>9046
PREVIOUS>9036
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE> ::
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References: <6b0smo$rt2$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
Definitely build the SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY. Heck, go all the way, from
East Village right up to the Bronx. It's a busy avenue, and seeing as
how thier are the 6, 7, and 8th Avenue trains West, and only Lexington
on the East, that train is needed. I see four tracks, local, express,
express, local. If it's going to be done, might as well be done right.
This would ease the overcrowding on the IRT Lex. But don't build any
stations on curves (Union Square) it's too loud!
NEXT>9048
PREVIOUS>9035
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:43 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on January 30, 1998 at 00:08:34:
In Reply to: [8]Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension posted by
Daniel on January 29, 1998 at 20:54:40:
I thought the original line was built to 180th St and Southern Blvd.
Then it was extended to West Farms and up White Plains Rd.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poustka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Train dispatcher office
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:45 1998
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Posted by Marek Poustka on January 30, 1998 at 01:44:25:
It is exist any foto from TRAIN DISPATCHER OFFICE.
Where I find this foto or text?
Thank you so much.
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NEXT>9050
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poustka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:47 1998
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Posted by Marek Poustka on January 30, 1998 at 02:19:44:
Where I can buy a New York Subway Map on the paper and
by post.I can pay with VISA CARD.
Thanks
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NEXT>9047
PREVIOUS>9038
POSTER>charlie muller
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:50 1998
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Posted by charlie muller on January 30, 1998 at 02:30:31:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Daniel on January 29, 1998 at 19:48:38:
Oh Lord, forgive ABC for they do not know what they are doing. ABC has
blasphemed the gods of the original movie. I hope nobody watches this
remake of Pelham 1-2-3, i know i am not watching the remake.
charlie muller.
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NEXT>9049
PREVIOUS>9041
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:55 1998
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Posted by Sammy on January 30, 1998 at 02:31:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted
by Peter Rosa on January 29, 1998 at 21:24:34:
I like Daniel's suggestion about using the LIC/Jamaica branch of the
LIRR. Its true. Let's not have that line go to waste. Over the past
couple of years, LIC and Greenpoint have experienced a dramatic growth
economic growth. That would furthert the growth and there would be
additional growth along the line. Transfers could be built from the M
train at Metropolitan, the 7, and even the G. Even better, let's build
a G station that would allow a transfer to Vernon-Jackson and the
LIRR/Airport Shuttle and get rid of 21/Van Alst. In fact, let's
increase water ferry service at the LIC junction. Extend the B61 bus
from Williamsburgh to LIC (and not just Box Street). And I also agree
with Peter. Let's extend the N to LGA also. We need to give New
Yorkers more than one way to get around. If the MTA is worried about
creating revenue, this is a sure way to pump it up, instead of using
that stupid Metro Card thingy.
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NEXT>9057
PREVIOUS>9045
POSTER>charlie muller
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:09:58 1998
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Posted by charlie muller on January 30, 1998 at 02:38:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Daniel on January 29, 1998 at 19:48:38:
Oh Lord, forgive ABC for they do not know what they are doing. ABC has
blasphemed the gods of the original movie. I hope nobody watches this
remake of Pelham 1-2-3, i know i am not watching the remake.
charlie muller.
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NEXT>9104
PREVIOUS>9042
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:03 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on January 30, 1998 at 05:41:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension posted by
Mellow One on January 30, 1998 at 00:08:34:
Actually, the original line terminated at 180th St. and Boston Rd.,
just south of what is known today as the "Asia gate" of the Bronx Zoo.
Later, the so-called West Farms extension branched off the Boston Rd.
tracks at about 179th St. and went NE to the present E. 180th St.
station, built as a transfer point to and from the NYWB (New York,
Westchester, and Boston) Railway, better known today as the Dyre Ave.
line. From 180th St., the line of course proceeds north on private
surface right-of-way for a short distance, then becomes elevated over
a short street called Birchall Ave. for a couple of blocks before
turning onto White Plains Rd.
The section east and north of 179th St./Boston Rd. was built to "Dual
Contracts" specs, i.e. greater clearance between the tracks, while the
line south of there (which was part of the original IRT) was not.
The opening date for the "West Farms"/White Plains Rd. line was about
1919 or 1920; for the exact date see the excellent table at the
"JoeKorner", reachable from the "Transfer Station" page of this site
(see "other NYC transit-related sites" or something like that).
The excelllent (even overwhelming) section here on the NYWB is also
quite interesting. I hope more pictures (in particular, a map of the
route through Westchester) will be added soon.
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NEXT>9061
PREVIOUS>9046
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:11 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on January 30, 1998 at 06:03:32:
In Reply to: [8]How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted by
Daniel A. Valles on January 29, 1998 at 20:51:48:
For access to LGA, why not build a spur off the NY Connecting RR from
about the point where it crosses the Grand Central Parkway? This would
require a minimum amount of new construction, less than extending the
N line, and would allow rapid trips to/from Penn Station, NY.
Likewise, for JFK, why not an LIRR spur from Locust Manor station? The
idea is to minimize the amount of new construction needed. Besides,
airport passengers generally have luggage and are unlikely to want to
ride regular (often crowded) subway trains. I like the subway, but the
majority of air travellers probably don't.
As for changes to the subway, still following the idea of getting
manimum mileage from minimum construction, I think a short connection
under the Manhattan Bridge plaza in Manhattan should be made from the
Chrystie St. tracks (south of Grand St. station) to the tracks going
west from the bridge under Canal St. Trains could then be routed from
Grand St., through the old Nassau St. loop connection, to Chambers St.
station and on to the Montague St. tunnel. This is surely the easiest
way of providing an alternative route to the Manhattan Bridge for the
B/D/Q lines. OK, I know the tunnel doesn't have enough capacity for
ALL those lines, some trains could terminate at Chambers, or at 2nd
Ave., but at least a Manhattan Bridge closure would not leave all
three lines "dead in the water". One of the 6th Ave. services could
also be routed through the Rutgers St. tunnel as an express to Church
St. The much-discussed Rutgers St. tunnel connection to DeKalb Ave.
would surely cost a lot more than this would.
Also in the realm of "bargain" connections, build a short siding from
the #7 line tunnel portal in Queens to the adjacent Hunterspoint Ave.
LIRR station, with a cross-platform transfer between LIRR trains and
special short-run 7's that would run between there and Times Square.
Then have some LIRR trains that now go to Penn Station terminate at
the transfer platform at Hunterspoint. Presto: you effectively have
LIRR service to Grand Central at a tiny fraction of the 63rd-St.
tunnel route.
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NEXT>9052
PREVIOUS>9044
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:13 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on January 30, 1998 at 09:06:57:
In Reply to: [8]map of New York subway posted by Marek Poustka on
January 30, 1998 at 02:19:44:
They are not for sale. Where do you live?? Maybe we can swap system
maps, send me email and we can talk.
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NEXT>9089
PREVIOUS>9040
POSTER>Lou From Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:17 1998
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Posted by Lou From Brooklyn on January 30, 1998 at 09:09:16:
In Reply to: [7]R-40S & R-68A Re-swap posted by In the Know on January
29, 1998 at 22:59:02:
As a daily rider of the R40 on the Q I am at least glad (only one I
bet). I had a nice warm toasty rear this morning on the ride in.
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NEXT>9054
PREVIOUS>9050
POSTER>george
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:20 1998
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Posted by george on January 30, 1998 at 09:14:40:
In Reply to: [7]map of New York subway posted by Marek Poustka on
January 30, 1998 at 02:19:44:
try this link http://www.nycsubway.org/routemap/nysubway.gif
Subway maps are free. I'll try to find out the address to the MTA.
Post your addreess and I'll be hapy to mail you one free.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Pelham 1-2-3 Machine Guns
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:22 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on January 30, 1998 at 09:14:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by charlie muller on January 30, 1998 at 02:38:41:
Saw a trailer for it last night. They had Machine Guns, 14 people on
the car (does that match??). Hey the shot of the control center still
had the same type of old Microphone, you know the silver big box type
thing.
Guess no headsets.
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NEXT>9166
PREVIOUS>9052
POSTER>George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:24 1998
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Posted by George on January 30, 1998 at 09:17:55:
In Reply to: [7]Re: map of New York subway posted by Lou from Brooklyn
on January 30, 1998 at 09:06:57:
Remember you are writing to someone who may not have a proper command
of English. It may not be your intention but your message implies that
subway maps are hard to come by. You should stress to Marek that maps
are free and readily available.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brookly
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch Jamica Yard
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:28 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brookly on January 30, 1998 at 09:19:10:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Steve on January
29, 1998 at 22:45:45:
Hey I'm from Brooklyn, Queens is a another world for me. Long Island
City is as far as I go!! But it was a good guess it was called Jamica
Yard hehe.... But I knew it wasn't at the end of the line (Jamica) so
it could have been called something else (this is NYC ya know). LOL
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NEXT>9106
PREVIOUS>9039
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:32 1998
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Posted by Nick on January 30, 1998 at 09:28:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by sdc-foti on
January 29, 1998 at 10:18:18:
Thanks for all your help! Is the Jamaica yard also the place where the
#7 is stored (by shea stadium) or is that a diff. yard?-Nick
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NEXT>9059
PREVIOUS>9047
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:35 1998
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Posted by Nick on January 30, 1998 at 09:32:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by charlie muller on January 30, 1998 at 02:30:31:
Give ABC a chance. Yes, it could end up being total crap, or it may be
great. I'm hoping it's as good as the original (even though I have my
doubts). I love the original one, I can watch it 3 or 4 times w/o
getting bored. But again, even with my doubts, I'm gonna watch it to
see for myself.-Nick
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NEXT>9107
PREVIOUS>9028
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:37 1998
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Posted by Steve B on January 30, 1998 at 09:38:48:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Dan Schwartz
on January 29, 1998 at 17:00:50:
According to Brian Cudahy, when equipment was selected for filming The
French Connection, it was in the middle of winter, and car washers
were out of commission (imagine that!), and the producers wanted the
cleanest cars they could find. This was before the graffiti epidemic.
It just so happened that the cars chosen didn't have any B signs. As I
mentioned earlier, the N on the car end appears maybe twice in the
movie, and then only very briefly. However, there is vindication: if
you recall, the motorman collapses in the movie at the end of the
chase sequence, and a tripper stops the train, but not before it
crashes into a laid up B train of R-32s - whose last car does display
a black B sign. Also, if you observe closely, the train in the chase
sequence doesn't always stay on the local track. In several scenes, it
runs on the center track! I'm sure this was done in order to minimize
service disruption, and besides, chances are the average moviegoer
wouldn't notice, anyway.
Speaking of movies, there is a marking discrepancy in the subway
sequence of Nighthawks. It's not that easy to spot, though. It occurs
at the point where Sylvester Stallone gets ready to kick out the storm
door window while attempting to enter the train. If you recall, they
used a train of restored R1/9s in the movie (even the side destination
signs were illuminated!). The train was marked as a B train headed for
Coney Island, and it was pulling into 57th St.-6th Ave, although the
sequence was shot at Hoyt-Schermerhorn Sts. using one of the unused
outer tracks. In one scene, Stallone and Billy Dee Williams are seen
running alongside the train as it pulls out of the station with the
camera at floor level. The last car of the train is correctly marked
as B/Wash Hts-168th St and its storm door has a split window (an R-6,
R-7, or R-9). After Stallone and Williams manage to jump onto the last
car, Williams tries the storm door and discovers - DUH! - that it's
locked. The camera pulls away as Stallone grabs onto the stirrups
getting ready to kick in the window, and at this point the last car
suddenly has a single large pane of glass on its storm door (R-1 or
R-4), and is marked as an S (oops!). On top of that, the storm door
magically unlocks. Oh, and one of the side signs says Kings Highway
instead of Coney Island - but it is illuminated.
I scrutinize subway footage in movies to the max - what can I say?
Again, the average Joe Moviegoer probably won't notice any of this.
P. S. One of the station signs at Hoyt-Schermerhorn wasn't covered
with a 57th St. placard in the movie. You have to advance the film one
frame at a time on your VCR to see it. It's visible between the car
doors as Stallone tries to pry them open.
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NEXT>9060
PREVIOUS>9057
POSTER>FRED WELLMAN
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:40 1998
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Posted by FRED WELLMAN on January 30, 1998 at 10:22:06:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Nick on January 30, 1998 at 09:32:45:
In todays world the riders would be better armed than the criminals.
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NEXT>9065
PREVIOUS>9059
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:43 1998
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Posted by Steve B on January 30, 1998 at 10:38:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by charlie muller on January 30, 1998 at 02:30:31:
I'll watch it just to compare it to the original. I must admit that
whenever I see Hector Elizondo, his portrayal of Mr. Gray comes into
mind.
One question: does anyone have any idea where the 28th St. scenes were
shot in the original? Obviously, that wasn't the actual 28th St.-Park
Ave. station. I want to guess the lower level at 42nd St., but the
tilework wasn't consistent with the tilework at 42nd St. Besides, the
train would have had to wrong-rail into that particular station; it
was moving left to right in the original. How about the Grand Central
scene? Court St., perhaps? This would have been before the Transit
Museum came into being.
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NEXT>9064
PREVIOUS>9049
POSTER>Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:45 1998
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Posted by Chris C. on January 30, 1998 at 11:18:19:
In Reply to: [7]How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted by
Daniel A. Valles on January 29, 1998 at 20:51:48:
I say we go nuts about this airport thing.
First- A line which runs across 110th Street connecting La Guardia as
well as the #7 in Flushing, with the R in Astoria, the Lexington Line
At Lex, the 8th Ave. Line at 8th Ave.(with a transfer tunnel at one
end connecting the 2&3.) This line should turn south at Amsterdam(10th
Ave) and run Express to 72nd Street, 59th, 42nd, 34th, 14th, Canal,
World Trade. A local train off of this line could cross Canal street
connecting with various lines on it's way to Brooklyn.(potentially
express to JFK) At 110th the 10th Ave. local could go express and
continue up Amsterdam to Washington Heights and Riverdale.
Second- On a lower level, below the new 110th street train would be a
PATH Line built with the following stops:
Newark Airport
Downtown Newark
Giant's Stadium
110th Street at 8th Ave (with a transfer at the front to the #'s 2&3)
Lexington Ave. with a transfer to the Lexington Line
La Guardia Airport
Third- The 10th Ave. Express, need not stop at world trade. This line
should run across the bay linking the Staten Island trains to the
system.
Forth- Install the 2nd Ave. Line as planned.
Let's have some vision people!
To pay for this I propose the following:
1. Increase the toll at outercrossings by 50 cents per axle, $1.00 per
axle during rush hour. Perhapse some discount could be worked out for
trucking and commerce.
2. Increase parking tax from 18.25% to 20%.
3. Add $1 tax on each airline ticket that involves LAG, NWK, JFK.
$2.50 for International flights.
4. Increase fines for parking, and moving violations. Let's hand out
some tickets to cars that block intersections and crosswalks. As well
as honking in Manhattan, which is alread illegal
5. Tax Revinue from increased property values along the new subway
lines. Not to mention many new jobs and prosperity. The State will
also prosper and should kick in some as well. The Fed too.
6.
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NEXT>9069
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:47 1998
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Posted by David on January 30, 1998 at 11:31:02:
ANybody been to the Howland Hook port on Staten Island?
How big is it and can I take a bus there?
MY second question is if I can walk along the old North Shore SIR ROW
to the port and maybe accross the bridge to NJ?
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NEXT>9066
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Kinm
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:50 1998
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Posted by Kinm on January 30, 1998 at 12:09:36:
When and why did Queens and Brooklyn become part of New York City?
It would be better if we were part of the island. What do you think?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9061
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations?
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:52 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on January 30, 1998 at 12:18:39:
In Reply to: [8]Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted
by Chris C. on January 30, 1998 at 11:18:19:
Jeez -- your plan reminds me of when, as a child, I'd take my set of
thin magic markers and create new lines and extensions all over my
stock of early 1970's subway maps. Now I wish I hadn't marked them up!
Truthfully, it's nice to see someone thinking about grandiose plans
for rapid transit expansion which include a way to pay for it. That
doesn't mean that it would actually work, but why not dream? The only
major geological obstacle I see is the cut across Manhattan at 110th
Street. I seem to remember that it is a bit tricky to dig there --
isn't there bedrock right below the street or something?
Finally, the abbreviations for the major NYC area airports are LGA,
EWR, and JFK.
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NEXT>9074
PREVIOUS>9060
POSTER>John Crowley
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:10:58 1998
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Posted by John Crowley on January 30, 1998 at 12:28:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Nick on January 30, 1998 at 09:32:45:
I agree it can only suck. What better final moment is there in ANY
movie than when Matthau hears the crook sneeze, says "Gezundheit,"
then opens the door again and gives him "that look"?
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NEXT>9067
PREVIOUS>9063
POSTER>Julio Perez
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:02 1998
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Posted by Julio Perez on January 30, 1998 at 12:41:02:
In Reply to: [8]QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Kinm on January 30, 1998 at
12:09:36:
I believe Queens and Brooklyn should remain in the City of New York as
it has for one hundred years.
I take it you have been out of the city's limits very little. When
you're a Queens native (as I am) and have lived most of your life
outside of the city due to life's circumstances, you begin to realize
how great it is to say that you're from New York City.
This has been my case. I've lived more time in Florida than in New
York, but I consider myself a New Yorker, where I was born and lived a
substantial part of my childhood. I consider someone calling me a
Floridian right up there with insulting my genealogical tree.
So again, Kinm, give your suggestion some thought, and think about
those that are in "involuntary exile" from the greatest city in the
world. BE PROUD TO BE A NEW YORKER, AND PROUDER TO BE FROM NEW YORK
CITY.
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NEXT>9068
PREVIOUS>9066
POSTER>Ben
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:06 1998
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Posted by Ben on January 30, 1998 at 12:53:17:
In Reply to: [7]Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Julio Perez on January
30, 1998 at 12:41:02:
The crummy manner the State of NY treats the City of NY you should
alos give it some thought.
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NEXT>9237
PREVIOUS>9067
POSTER>Chris C
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:08 1998
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Posted by Chris C on January 30, 1998 at 13:52:22:
In Reply to: [7]QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Kinm on January 30, 1998 at
12:09:36:
I think you have it backwards. Nassau and Westchester counties should
be incorperated into the City of New York, as were Kings, Queens,
Richmond and Bronx 100 years ago. Mass Transit was a major link to
consolidation in 1898 and it can be in 1998. The time has come to
streamline local governments and infastructure for the benefit of all.
Who Ever heard of Nassau or Westchester anyway.
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NEXT>9072
PREVIOUS>9062
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:11 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on January 30, 1998 at 14:15:57:
In Reply to: [8]Howland Hook posted by David on January 30, 1998 at
11:31:02:
The lift bridge to NJ is open. I don't think you'll be able to walk
across unless you've got a really, really large legspan. :-)
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NEXT>9073
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Timothy S. Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:16 1998
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Posted by Timothy S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 14:35:38:
This morning on track 8 at South Station in Boston, I saw an Amtrak
train which had two older blue coaches at the end. The end coach was
(est.) about 60 to 70 years old, and called the Georgia -- the second
to last was a Pullman car about 40 years old, and was called the Miami
Beach. Does anybody know anything about these cars?
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NEXT>9091
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>trolleybus
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>mci bus
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:21 1998
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Posted by trolleybus on January 30, 1998 at 14:54:20:
nyct has taken delivery of its first mci bus #1861. the bus is garaged
at yukon depot. it features a remote wheelchair lift and luggage
racks. sorry no bathrooms. it should be on the road shortly
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NEXT>9087
PREVIOUS>9069
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:25 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on January 30, 1998 at 15:26:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Howland Hook posted by David Pirmann on January
30, 1998 at 14:15:57:
And the Goethals Bridge won't be much help to a pedestrian either - I
don't believe it has a walkway.
Speaking of which, I can recall reading that the Goethals Bridge has
no public transit service whatsoever, except maybe for some commuter
buses which don't stop in New Jersey. Not what I'd call
transit-friendly ...
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NEXT>9090
PREVIOUS>9070
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:27 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on January 30, 1998 at 15:29:43:
In Reply to: [8]Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Timothy
S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 14:35:38:
Dunno what these coaches were. But at least Amtrak's using old
*restored* coaches - the LIRR uses old (mid-1950s) *unrestored*
coaches on its diesel lines!
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NEXT>9083
PREVIOUS>9065
POSTER>Frank Gatazka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:30 1998
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Posted by Frank Gatazka on January 30, 1998 at 15:56:12:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by FRED WELLMAN on January 30, 1998 at 10:22:06:
Why do film makers insist on redoing classic films that cannot be
improved upon? First it was "It's a Wonderful Life", then "Miracle on
Thirty Fourth Street". Now it's our beloved "...Pelham 123"! Save for
the conductor's comment of 75 foot IRT cars, the technical details in
the original were very good. Godey's book was even more on the mark -
the guy did his homework! It's interesting to remember that the
original movie was nearly shot in Toronto, since the TA at that time
did not want to suggest hijacking to potential criminals. It took a
very stubborn director, a large insurance policy and the intervention
of "Beau John" Lindsay to make the original in NYC. Let's all be glad
that it was. Toronto? Who are you going to fool anyway?
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NEXT>9076
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>B.B. Teak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:33 1998
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Posted by B.B. Teak on January 30, 1998 at 16:22:59:
I have just recently visited the Transit Museum in Brooklyn and bought
a new book that they just published. The name of the book is
"Evolution of New York City Subway" by Gene Sansone.
I had read about two chapters and found this book very informative
with narratives, photographs and specification for cars dated back to
1867 to the newest car, R110A & R110B and the concept model for
the upcoming R142 & R142A. I would give a better report on this new
book when I finish the whole book.
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NEXT>9079
PREVIOUS>9075
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:35 1998
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Posted by Nick on January 30, 1998 at 16:32:02:
In Reply to: [8]New Subway book posted by B.B. Teak on January 30,
1998 at 16:22:59:
Cool!! I wish they would sell this at other bookstores...and the
mini-gift shop in GCT.-Nick
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9033
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Trash on tracks
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:38 1998
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Posted by Adam on January 30, 1998 at 16:55:06:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Trash on tracks posted by Wayne Johnson on January
29, 1998 at 14:46:22:
How about putting trash cans ON trains???
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NEXT>9086
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:41 1998
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Posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at 17:00:23:
I KNOW VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING ABOUT THE NEW YORK SUBWAY SYSTEM EXCEPT
THIS:
WHAT IS THE TRACK GAUGE? ARE THEY DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE IRT AND THE
BMT AND THE IND? OR IS THERE A CITY STANDARD. I KNOW THAT IN
PHILLY(WHERE I AM) THAT THE TWO SUBWAY LINES( YES, WE ONLY HAVE TWO)
HAVE DIFFERENT GAUGES. THE MARKET-FRANKFORD( OR AS WE CALL IT HTE
"EL") HAS A BROAD GAUGE OF 5' 1/2" AND THE BROAD STREET SUBWAY HAS A
STANDARD GAUGE OF 4'8"(I THINK). THE CITY TROLLEYS HAVE A BROAD GAUGE,
TOO. COULD YOU PLEASE HELP?
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NEXT>9097
PREVIOUS>9076
POSTER>Steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:43 1998
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Posted by Steve L on January 30, 1998 at 17:05:59:
In Reply to: [8]New Subway book posted by B.B. Teak on January 30,
1998 at 16:22:59:
Can you post the TABLE OF CONTENTS
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NEXT>9085
PREVIOUS>8977
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:45 1998
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Posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at 17:15:36:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by Carl M. Rabbin on January 28, 1998 at 13:35:24:
MILLBOURNE SHOULD BE BLOWN TO BITS. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. THE MILLBOURNE
EL STOP( ACTUALLY ON THE SURFACE) HAS A FEW INTERESTING MOMENTOS OF
HOW IT USED TO BE. WHEN GOING TOWARDS 69th STREET, LOOK OUT THE RIGHT
WINDOWS TOWARDS COBBS CREEK PARK AND YOU WILL SEE OLD TRACKS THAT ARE
HALF BURIED AND JUST VISIBLE EVEN ON A SPEEDING TRAIN. AND I DON'T
KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS OR NOT BUT IF YOU LOOK DOWN AT THE
TRACKS ON THE PORTION OF THE EL BETWEEN 52nd AND 63rd YOU WILL SEE
PORTIONS OF OLD TRACKS. AND BETWEEN 52nd AND 46th STREETS IT HASN'T
EVEN BEEN REMOVED! AND A LITTLE TIDBIT THAT I AM SURPRISED MORE SUBWAY
BUFFS( PARTICULARLY IN PHILLY) IS THAT AS YOU APPROACH THE TUNNEL
ENTRANCE WHEN BRIEFLY TURNING AWAY FROM MARKET STREET YOU WILL SEE
WORK VEHICLES AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE AN OLD SECTION OF ELEVATED
STRUCTURE. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT THE EL WAS AN EL ALL THE WAY TO 30th
STREET?!
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NEXT>9082
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>JACK
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA)
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:47 1998
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Posted by JACK on January 30, 1998 at 17:22:32:
I WAS RIDING THE NEW EL AT LAST LAS WEEK AND REALIZED SOMETHING. EVERY
SEPTA VEHICLE IS OR HAS SEEN REMODELING IN THE PAST 8 OR SO YEARS
EXCEPT THE BROAD STREET SUBWAY CARS. I KNOW THAT THEY WERE REPLACED IN
1982-84 TO REPLACE TOHSE ABISMAL MONSTROSITIES WE USED TO RIDE. BUT
WHEN THE FRANKFORD EL IS BEATING YOU IN TERMS OF PROGRESS, YOU KNOW
YOU'VE GOT PROBLEMS.
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NEXT>9095
PREVIOUS>9081
POSTER>JACK
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA)
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:49 1998
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Posted by JACK on January 30, 1998 at 17:22:35:
I WAS RIDING THE NEW EL AT LAST LAS WEEK AND REALIZED SOMETHING. EVERY
SEPTA VEHICLE IS OR HAS SEEN REMODELING IN THE PAST 8 OR SO YEARS
EXCEPT THE BROAD STREET SUBWAY CARS. I KNOW THAT THEY WERE REPLACED IN
1982-84 TO REPLACE TOHSE ABISMAL MONSTROSITIES WE USED TO RIDE. BUT
WHEN THE FRANKFORD EL IS BEATING YOU IN TERMS OF PROGRESS, YOU KNOW
YOU'VE GOT PROBLEMS.
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NEXT>9114
PREVIOUS>9074
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:52 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on January 30, 1998 at 17:41:15:
In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Frank Gatazka on January 30, 1998 at 15:56:12:
Who are they going to fool? The same people who saw "Speed" and
weren't fazed by a subway train continuing on after the driver is
killed. Can you say dead-man's switch?
If the "dead-man's switch" on an LA subway train **can** be kept open
by a dead body, then LACMTA should either:
1) Recheck their specs, and fire whoever prepared them, OR
2) Sue the manufacturer of those cars, for serious breach of contract,
because the whole purpose of a deadman's switch is that it requires
some positive action to keep the train running.
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NEXT>9100
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE>Feb 5 17:11:55 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on January 30, 1998 at 17:55:57:
In Reply to: [8]WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA) posted by JACK on January
30, 1998 at 17:22:32:
(To Jack: Turn your CAPS Lock Off! The regulars on this board are VERY
picky about that!) :)
Actually, there are many SEPTA vehicles that have NOT been remodeled
in the last 8 years:
-All of the 1963 Budd Silverliner IIs on Regional Rail (They were
rebuilt by Morrison-Knudsen in the 1ate 1980s, but the interiors were
NOT drastically altered)
-Many of the earlier Neoplans (1984-85) have not been repainted since
they were new
-Most of the 1974-77 GE Silverliner IVs (I hate all that fake wood
paneling!) (But SEPTA is finally remodeling these cars and ditching
the fake wood in the process)
-The entire Market Street El structure (& the Budd cars still in
service on it)
-Suburban Station
The point I was making is that it's just not true that ALL SEPTA
vehicles are in like-new condition, as your post implies. SEPTA has
come a long way in the last 20 years, but they have an equally long
way to go.
(For that matter, so has NYC Transit, CTA, MBTA, or any other old
system!)
Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9148
PREVIOUS>9080
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:00 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on January 30, 1998 at 18:08:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at 17:15:36:
(To Steve: Turn off your CAPS Lock!)
The half-buried trackage between Millbourne & 69th Street is the
remains of the PRR's Cardington Branch which once ran into the 69th
Street Terminal area. Red Arrow used to receive its new trolleys over
this branch. I'm not sure when it was abandoned, but I would guess the
1960s.
As for the "Old" trackage on the El structure between 46th & 52nd, I
believe that the disconnected rail sections are placed to act as
safety devices in the evenr that a train derails, so as to prevent it
from dropping ro the ground from the El structure itself. (I'm not
technically inclined, so please correct me if I'm wrong here!)
The remain of the old El structure is from the original right-of-way
that ran as an elevated all the way to about 23rd Street (Yes, it did
cross the Schyulkill River as an elevated), not just to 30th. This
section was removed about 1955 after the El was relocated to subway
trackage from 45th Street to the existing subway at 23rd.
Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9102
PREVIOUS>9078
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:02 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on January 30, 1998 at 18:12:58:
In Reply to: [8]TRACK GAUGE posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at
17:00:23:
Please stop SHOUTING with your CAPS LOCK. I don't think you are on the
Web using an ancient terminal without lower case (if you are, I'd like
to know how), so please STOP. Reading all-caps text is difficult.
Especially when it is also boasting about knowing "almost everything"!
The track gauge on all NY subways is standard US/British railroad
gauge of 4' 8 1/2", although the "loading gauge" (car width) differs
between the two major divisions.
Supposedly, the origin of the standard railroad gauge goes all the way
back to ancient Roman chariots. The chariots made ruts in the roads
they travelled on, and later wagonmakers had to match that wheel
spacing in order to travel the roads safely. Traveling in existing
wheel ruts inspired travel on wooden rails, and later on iron rails,
all kept the same basic spacing between ruts/rails, the same one we
use today!
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NEXT>9088
PREVIOUS>9072
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:04 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on January 30, 1998 at 18:47:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Howland Hook posted by David Pirmann on January
30, 1998 at 14:15:57:
Or absolutely no fear....that bridge is HIGH! As for walking along the
ROW...go for it, but be careful, as it doesn't pass through some of
the better areas....not that it's all bad, though, mostly you won't
get bothered.
-Hank
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NEXT>9096
PREVIOUS>9087
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:06 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on January 30, 1998 at 18:49:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Howland Hook posted by Peter Rosa on January 30,
1998 at 15:26:57:
The Goethals and Bayonne bridges both have pedestrian walkways,
although they are both closed due to bridge construction.
-Hank
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NEXT>9125
PREVIOUS>9051
POSTER>David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:08 1998
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Posted by David on January 30, 1998 at 19:45:29:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap posted by Lou From Brooklyn
on January 30, 1998 at 09:09:16:
Lou From Brooklyn bet that he was the only one who appreciated having
the R-40s on the Q. Lou, you lose.
Call me Storm Door Window Dave
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NEXT>9092
PREVIOUS>9073
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:11 1998
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Posted by Fitz on January 30, 1998 at 20:02:02:
In Reply to: [7]Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Timothy
S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 14:35:38:
Could be private cars,owned by well to do individuals or corporations.
Amtrak will carry such cars on their trains,provided they meet Amtrak
safety standards,for a hefty fee.
I saw some of these cars on display at the Hoboken Festival a few
years back. If you've got the money,they are THE way to travel!
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NEXT>9093
PREVIOUS>9071
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:14 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 30, 1998 at 20:04:12:
In Reply to: [7]mci bus posted by trolleybus on January 30, 1998 at
14:54:20:
Is it one door or two? Is it 35' 40' or 45' long MCI built some 2 door
35' buses for the ATE Saudi Operation in the 80's that ended up back
in the states. Quite a few of them were running employee shuttles at
O'Hare in Chicago.
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NEXT>9094
PREVIOUS>9090
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:16 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 30, 1998 at 20:08:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Peter
Rosa on January 30, 1998 at 15:29:43:
I have seen two navy blue coaches stored at union station in Washing
DC several times when I was there. They are Exec type cars. I do not
know who they belong to but they sound like the cars you described.
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NEXT>9159
PREVIOUS>9091
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:19 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 30, 1998 at 20:11:18:
In Reply to: [7]mci bus posted by trolleybus on January 30, 1998 at
14:54:20:
Is it one door or two? Is it 35' 40' or 45' long MCI built some 2 door
35' buses for the ATE Saudi Operation in the 80's that ended up back
in the states. Quite a few of them were running employee shuttles at
O'Hare in Chicago.
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NEXT>9101
PREVIOUS>9092
POSTER>Timothy S. Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:21 1998
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Posted by Timothy S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 21:14:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Fitz
on January 30, 1998 at 20:02:02:
The older car had an Amtrak logo, albeit small, on the end door. I
couldn't see the end door on the newer car.
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NEXT>9324
PREVIOUS>9082
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA)
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:23 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on January 30, 1998 at 21:17:38:
In Reply to: [8]WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA) posted by JACK on January
30, 1998 at 17:22:35:
Do you mean Abysmal?
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NEXT>9118
PREVIOUS>9088
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:24 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on January 30, 1998 at 21:37:55:
In Reply to: [7]Howland Hook posted by David on January 30, 1998 at
11:31:02:
I think you can take the S40 bus to Howland Hook (or at least pretty
close to it, if not all the way there --- you may have to get off and
walk a little bit). YOu can pick up the S40 at the St. George ferry
terminal.
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NEXT>9098
PREVIOUS>9079
POSTER>B.B. Teak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:26 1998
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Posted by B.B. Teak on January 30, 1998 at 22:03:16:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Steve L on January 30,
1998 at 17:05:59:
Evolution of New York City Subways:
Table of Contents:
Part I: Locomotive Era
Part II: Vintage IRT Cars
Part III: Vintage BMT Cars
Part IV: New York City Subways (R Type)
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NEXT>9099
PREVIOUS>9097
POSTER>B. B. Teak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:28 1998
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Posted by B. B. Teak on January 30, 1998 at 22:06:12:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Nick on January 30, 1998
at 16:32:02:
I think they will sell it at the GCT store, since this store is also
run by the Transit museum. I also heard that the author will sign this
book on March 18th at the Brooklyn Transit museum.
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NEXT>9103
PREVIOUS>9098
POSTER>Kenny from CT
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:30 1998
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Posted by Kenny from CT on January 30, 1998 at 22:11:59:
In Reply to: [7]New Subway book posted by B.B. Teak on January 30,
1998 at 16:22:59:
Yes, I was fortunate to have a glance at this new subway book that
dated back to 1867 with many trains that I have never seen or heard.
The line drawings in each section is very clear and detailed with
specification/dimensions for this cars.
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NEXT>9147
PREVIOUS>9084
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:33 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 30, 1998 at 22:20:19:
In Reply to: [8]SEPTA Really Is A Shame! posted by Michael S. Buglak
on January 30, 1998 at 17:55:57:
Last time I was on Septic, my friend swore he could smell the motors
on the train burning everytime the engineer took power...
The trackwork on Septa is bad, the stations are worse, and in general,
the system is actually in worse shape than the LIRR, if that's
possible ;)
And those train cars are T A C K Y inside!! brown and yellow seats,
woodgrain paneling, vynil (sp). I vote Septa's trains for worst
interior decoration.
Those ticket "machines" really need to go too. The instructions are
about as long as War and Peace...
And the departure monitors at Suburban need to go too - too cryptic.
But the people on Septa are nice. I was told to expect horror stories,
but found them in general to be good.
Also, the old Market equipment isn't as bad as everyone says, except
for lack of AC. Actually, I thought they were in pretty good shape
given their age/mantainece. Not so for the EL, and I think running the
third rail under the platform is a disaster waiting to happen. They
should also trim the weeds around it - although the shoes seem to do
that somewhat already...
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NEXT>9119
PREVIOUS>9094
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:35 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 30, 1998 at 22:22:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Fitz
on January 30, 1998 at 20:02:02:
>Amtrak will carry such cars on their trains,provided they meet Amtrak
>safety standards,for a hefty fee.
Since when did Slamtrak have safety standards???
Although I can believe the hefty fee part.
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NEXT>9110
PREVIOUS>9086
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:38 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on January 30, 1998 at 22:49:52:
In Reply to: [8]TRACK GAUGE posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at
17:00:23:
Sometime before WWI, during the Interurban Era, the PRR and other Penn
RRs exerted pressure upon the Pa legislature to limit the then new
interurban lines that the RR's did not control to non-standard guage
track. This was done to limit the competition that the interurbans
could offer with freight interchange. Hence, the non-standard gauge
rapit transit (nee interban) lines.
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NEXT>9109
PREVIOUS>9099
POSTER>Charles Fiori
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:40 1998
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Posted by Charles Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:06:49:
In Reply to: [7]New Subway book posted by B.B. Teak on January 30,
1998 at 16:22:59:
Gene Sansone, when I worked for the TA, was something like either the
Administrator or head Engineer in the old Car Maintenance Department.
Nice to see he has produced such a tome...Prob. a good source for lots
of old material.
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NEXT>9111
PREVIOUS>9048
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:42 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on January 30, 1998 at 23:15:38:
In Reply to: [8]Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension posted by Dan
Schwartz on January 30, 1998 at 05:41:00:
Thanks for the directions to the data.
I hope to be putting up some NYW&B info and maps as a tribute to my
late friend Mr. Roger Arcara on my home page at
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/1346/
I have tons of material here at home.
However, I have to get into the computer by scanning it in on my
scanner that I do not have yet.
That's why I asked for the dates.
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NEXT>9113
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Charles Fiori
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:46 1998
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Posted by Charles Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:17:01:
In Reply to: [7]Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Timothy
S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 14:35:38:
From my new office in the Chicago Board of Trade Bldg., I have a
reasonable view of the Amtrak and Metra yards south of Union Station
in Chicago. Noticed today a white double-decker coach, which looked
like the ones that GO Transit used to run. Any thoughts?
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NEXT>9123
PREVIOUS>9056
POSTER>Charles Fiori
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:49 1998
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Posted by Charles Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:22:52:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Lou from Brooklyn
on January 29, 1998 at 11:02:40:
Believe it or not, when the R27/30s were the mainstay of the RR line,
they were maintained at East New York.
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NEXT>9108
PREVIOUS>9058
POSTER>Charles Fiori
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:51 1998
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Posted by Charles Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:29:36:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Dan Schwartz
on January 29, 1998 at 17:00:50:
In the days when the R40/42s were delivered, cars had limited signage.
The different sets were as follows:
1. A, AA, B, S
2. CC, D, S
3. E, F, S
4. EE, GG, N, S
5. QJ, KK, LL, M, N, QB, S
6. RR, S
Go figure.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9107
POSTER>Charles Fiori
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:54 1998
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Posted by Charles Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:35:00:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Destination (Sign) Dilemmas posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on January 29, 1998 at 09:40:30:
Here in Chicago, they recently went to another iteration of their
signs. There are actually destinations and not just routes. Brown line
trains (old Ravenswood) say "Loop", "Kimball", or "Belmont". Blue line
trains say "O'Hare", "Rosemont", "Forest Park", or "Douglas-Cicero",
etc.
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NEXT>9126
PREVIOUS>9103
POSTER>steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:12:59 1998
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Posted by steve L on January 31, 1998 at 00:03:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New Subway book posted by B.B. Teak on January 30,
1998 at 22:03:16:
Is there a place from which I can order this book
Address or Phone number
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NEXT>9138
PREVIOUS>9102
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:03 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on January 31, 1998 at 00:25:13:
In Reply to: [7]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Dan Schwartz on January 30,
1998 at 18:12:58:
The Market St. Subway-elevated was built by the Philadelphia Rapid
Transit Company (PRT) in 1906 to the Philadelphia streetcar gauge of
5'2.5" in order for the work equipment for the system (in 1906) could
be used everywhere (same applies to the Toronto subway, it's Toronto
guage of 4'10 7/8", same as the streetcars). The Frankford elevated
was built by the City
in 1922. Since it was intended to connect it to the Market line, it
was built to the same gauge. The Broad Street Subway was built by the
City to COMPETE with the PRT, so BRT construction standards were used
and the BSS was built to Standard gauge. So, as Philadelphians say,
"Market is Broad and Broad is Standard".
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9104
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:09 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on January 31, 1998 at 00:45:42:
In Reply to: [8]Re: West Farms/White Plains Rd extension posted by Dan
Schwartz on January 30, 1998 at 05:41:00:
Thanks for the direction to the data.
I have tons of it here. However, I have to get it organized and in my
computer. I am planning to put some of my own NYW&B data on my own
home page at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/1346/
as a tribute to my late friend Mr. Roger Arcara.
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NEXT>9121
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:15 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 00:53:34:
Dan Schwartz, on 1-30, posted an idea for getting the most bang for
the buck in dealing with the (likely to happen) Manhattan Bridge
closure. I, to have been wondering about this approach and I am glad
he posted it. Assuming the Rutgers connection will be built, which D
(and maybe Q) trains will use, capacity problems leave the B "out in
the cold". My May-November 1995 map, covering the period when the
Manhattan Bridge was shut to trains at times due to reconstruction
work, had the B running between Coney Island and Pacific Street. It
was noted by another contributor, recently, that the West End (B) line
was picked as having the worst service of all lines, for the last two
years. (It's riders used to call it, at times, the Worst End Line, for
obvious reasons.)
Why does it get such poor treatment? As noted earlier, with future
Manhattan Bridge closure, will probably again be terminated at Pacific
Street. Is it necessary to always pick the B for service disruptions?
Between Coney Island and 36th Street, do more people use the B and M
combination on the West End, or the N on the Sea Beach? I don't have
patronage figures but does the N really have more passengers? If not,
then why is B (and possibly M) service adversely affected?
Going back to Dan Schwartz's idea, the concept is to develop an Nassau
St./Christie St. line. If B service followed the M rush hour service
extension between Nassau St. and Bay Parkway, then B riders wouldn't
need to all get out at Pacific St. and switch to some other train. B's
could use this approach at all times when the F/D/Q Rutgers tunnel was
at capacity. But at other times, perhaps B's could use the Rutgers
tunnel and a shuttle could serve the Grand St. Station. By replacing
the M with the B at rush hours, I think the Montague St. tunnel could
serve all B, N and R trains.
Regarding construction needs, I think the basics are in-place. The
Nassau St. unused tunnel to the south Manhattan Bridge tracks is in
place. If I remember correctly, there is an open wall at one point
where tracks could be laid right to the Broadway tracks, which happen
to line right next to them. The only question would be the degree of
curvature needed to turn north from those tracks and connect with the
Christie St. tracks. But is is worth looking in to, as it prevents
truncated B service and allows Grand St. to still operate. Another
possible problem: Does the Nassau Loop southbound track have an
overpass or underpass regarding the northbound track to the
Williamsburgh Bridge or does it actuall corss them? If the latter,
that may need a "fly-under" or "flyover" for safe operation with
minimal delays.
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NEXT>9192
PREVIOUS>9105
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:19 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on January 31, 1998 at 00:55:30:
In Reply to: [8]New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Charles
Fiori on January 30, 1998 at 23:17:01:
I've seen some stainless steel double-decker Amtrak coaches, but none
that are white. I'll keep my eyes peeled at South Station.
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NEXT>9137
PREVIOUS>9083
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:22 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 31, 1998 at 00:59:29:
In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by John B. Bredin on January 30, 1998 at 17:41:15:
Not really related - but AFIK, neither Septa nor NJT's MUs have dead
man's brakes. I know the LIRR, and Metro North stuff does, as does
virtually every subway in the country.
But one has to ask themselves - does it really prevent accidents??
I'm sure it has, but I was wondering if anyone knew for sure..
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NEXT>9144
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux)
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:26 1998
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Posted by Sammy on January 31, 1998 at 02:42:41:
Steve:
I appreciate your opinions, no matter how out of touch and
inappropriate for the transit-riding public they are.
The simple facts of the matter were that this bum chunked on the poor
passenger on a train "stalled" in the tunnel. At this point, we should
be really thankful that he wasn't a box-cutter wielding psycopath who
surely inflict damage upon his victims. In which case, I feel, the
crew still would have done nothing in response. Be that as it may,
what would you say? "Oh radioing the tower wouldn't have been an
option". Meanwhile, instead of thinking clearly and calmly, raidioing
the tower that they would bring the train to the edge of the platform
so that the police and ems would not be delayed in getting to the
train by running down dark tunnels, you would have: a) the train just
sit there or b) cut power and let the police run down the tracks.
Sorry Steve, but your kind of thinking makes me really wonder about
the safety of the system and the TA's (and union's) stated goal of
"protecting the transit-riding public". This is where you are
wrong!!!!!
P.S. If I do run for office in the future and I should get elected,
your butt would be the first I'd kick out. Let's get some responsible,
no-nonsense people in here who have our best interests in mind, and
not some self-serving agendas.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Deadman controls on NJT ( WAS:Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:30 1998
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In Reply to: [8]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 31, 1998 at 00:59:29:
The Northeast Corridor (NY to Trenton, and SEPTA to Philladelphia) use
the Amtrak right of way. They do not use deadman control since a train
that runs a signal would be given an acknowledgement in cab audible
signal. If the engineer does not respond by slowing/stopping the train
the automatic in cab signal controls would stop the train NJT's other
lines should have this by 1999. (SOURCE: Various NJT publications,
Star-Ledger after the Hoboken wreck.)
For the SEPTA fans- The Center City Tunnel also has this feature. The
system ends at Wayne Junction for those trains leaving the Amtrak ROW.
(SOURCE: Philadelphia newspapers after NJT's Hoboken wreck)
[The Hoboken wreck refers to the collision of the 2 NJT trains in the
meadowlands due to the engineeer running a red signal)
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NEXT>9136
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>The Real Deal
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Where 7500 and 7000 go
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:32 1998
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Posted by The Real Deal on January 31, 1998 at 08:04:28:
Where did the bus series 7500 and 7000 go to which depot?
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NEXT>9122
PREVIOUS>9096
POSTER>Bill from S.I.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:34 1998
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Posted by Bill from S.I. on January 31, 1998 at 08:22:04:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Howland Hook posted by Hank Eisenstein on January
30, 1998 at 18:49:37:
The Bayonne Bridge walkway is opened, walked it the other day . Great
view of Newark Bay.
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NEXT>9131
PREVIOUS>9101
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:37 1998
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Posted by Fitz on January 31, 1998 at 09:26:31:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by
Philip Nasadowski on January 30, 1998 at 22:22:56:
That's what they call it,though I suspect it's really an effort to
limit their liability in the event of an accident. The requirements
cover things like FRA safety glazing,use of "Tightlock" couplers,all
steel construction and maintenance records regarding wheels and
trucks. I believe they also collect a fee for inspecting the car
before accepting it for movement.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook S40 Bus Service
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:39 1998
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Posted by Steve L on January 31, 1998 at 10:21:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Howland Hook posted by Bill from S.I. on January
31, 1998 at 08:22:04:
Does anyone have a map of the Howland Hook Terminal with the Bus Route
Superimposed IN the Terminal
Thank you----Steve
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NEXT>9174
PREVIOUS>9112
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 5 17:13:57 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 11:12:56:
In Reply to: [8]Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Mike
Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 00:53:34:
I should have referred to the earlier "more bang-for-the-buck" posting
of someone who also noted the potential of the Cranberry tunnel to
handle some Manhattan Bridge displaced service. It also should be
examined, in addition to the Nassau-Christie connection. If I recall
correctly, the Cranberry connection involved building a short
connection on the Brookly side from the BMT tracks leading to the
south Manhattan Bridge tracks, and very short connections between the
IND and the BMT Broadway tracks leading to the lower level of the City
Hall station. That could restore Q service to Broadway. Even the
Nassau-Christie route could have an additional tie-in to the tracks
leading to the unused Canal St. station from the north Manhattan
Bridge tracks. Since those thacks lead directly to the Broadway
express tracks, that could also be used to provide express Q service
to Broadway. It may be worth having both the Cranberry and
Nassau-Christie connections to Broadway tracks. But cost and money
availability may
limit what can be done to only one connection. In that case, I would
opt for the Cranberry connection. The Nassau-Christie connection has
great potential and should be developed if feasible.
One other comment: I recall, years ago, reading about transit lines in
Chicago and Philadelphia, I believe, that were demolished and rebuilt
(at least partially). I think this involved both subway and el tracks.
Where did the money come from for this work? I imagine there was
justification to apply for, and receive, US government transit funds.
Are you aware of any effort by the MTA to seek federal funds to
construct Manhattan Bridge alternatives? If not, why not? I would
think New York City transit needs, regarding the loss of such a
critical link as the Manhattan Bridge, are at least as worthy as the
replacement work in those other cities. Does anyone know how many
people a day use the B,D, and Q lines across the bridge?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9118
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Howland Hook
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:02 1998
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Posted by Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 11:19:56:
In Reply to: [8]Howland Hook posted by David on January 30, 1998 at
11:31:02:
If you look at an older Staten Island NYC bus map, it used to show
Howland Hook as being served by the S40. But now the S40 leaves the
"Kill Van Kull" shoreline and goes down South Avenue, terminating at
the Goethels Bridge Plaza. With the close of the Ivory Snow Plant &
other factories in the Port Ivory section of Staten Island, that
section of the borough lost all bus service some years ago. Now the
S40 (formerly the S1), the S46 (formerly S3) and the S48 (formerly
S107) all serve the many housing projects near South Avenue.
The S46 probably follows the old North End line of the Staten Island
Rapid Transit system the best, crossing several bridges over the old
track. And if you walk a short distance up the pedestrian walkway of
the Bayonne Bridge (easy to get to from the S40, 44 or 46), you can
see an old station's platforms at Morningstar Road.
Every once in awhile, someone says the line should be revived. It
would be a great idea if those old stations & tracks were in better
repair. But through the years they've been trashed or just fallen into
bad shape.
I have some other things to say about rail service on Staten Island,
but I'll start a new page for those remarks.
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NEXT>9127
PREVIOUS>9106
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:06 1998
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Posted by Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 12:06:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Nick on January
30, 1998 at 09:28:00:
No, the #7 has its own yard near Willet's Point. (Actually, they ought
to change the name of this station to Shea Stadium/Flushing Meadow.
Willet's Point Boulevard has no significance here and the only reason
folks use this station is either for baseball, tennis, to enjoy the
park or to use Shea's lot as a Park & Ride.)
Oh, and remember Nick, numbered trains like the #7 and lettered trains
like the N & R can't use the same yard because the cars are not
interchangable.
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NEXT>9142
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>To Sammy the Feckless
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:09 1998
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Posted by Steve on January 31, 1998 at 12:09:08:
In Reply to: [8]Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux) posted by
Sammy on January 31, 1998 at 02:42:41:
On the contrary, Sammy, it is you who is out of touch. You were not on
the train nor were you in the tower. You have no idea what was in
front of the train or why it was stalled. You simply make mindless
criticisms from behind an electronic screen of semi-annonymity. Other
than playing with your big brother's electric trains when you were a
little girl, what are your credentials? What makes you qualified to
second guess dozens of transit professionals with hundreds of years of
cumulative experience? Your viewpoint(s) have been soundly repudiated
and rebuffed on this site by virtually everyone who has responded to
them. Give it up already. I believe that if one person calls you a
jack-ass you ignore it but when everyone calls you a jackass, start
looking for a saddle.
As for me, please run for office. Try to kick my butt out. I didn't
get where I am because of political favors. I've worked my way up
through the ranks and am where I am because of a high degree of
competance. My employees know it, my peers know it, my bosses know it
and the politicians I deal with on occassions know it.
I've asked this before, and will one last time. You seem to have made
this very personal. It's okay with me. I can handle (your) criticism.
I just think that you (and I) are wasting a lot of peoples time and
too much of Dave's space on your petty feud. If you need to attack me
personally -you have my E-Mail address. Next time you have a lay-over
in NY E-Mail me.
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NEXT>9135
PREVIOUS>9089
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:12 1998
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Posted by Steve on January 31, 1998 at 12:23:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap posted by David on January
30, 1998 at 19:45:29:
Sorry Dave,
Lou is not the only one. He's right about the heat on the 40s. What he
didn't say is that the service on the Q is faster with the R-40s. Why?
for 2 reasons.
First since both the R-40s and R-68As have 115 HP traction motors an
8-car R68A train has 460 X 8 = 3,680 horse power while a 10-car R-40
consist has 4,600 HP for essentially the same load.
Second, an 6 car R-68A has 4 door openings per car per station or 32
door openings per train. The R-40s with 2 more cars per train have 40
door openings per station or 8 more than the R-68As. This cuts station
dwell time and speeds service.
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NEXT>9156
PREVIOUS>9109
POSTER>In the Know
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:14 1998
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Posted by In the Know on January 31, 1998 at 12:30:47:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Charles Fiori on January
30, 1998 at 23:06:49:
Gene Sansone is the Assistant Cheif Mechanical Officer for Engineering
in the Division of Car Equipment.
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NEXT>9128
PREVIOUS>9123
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:19 1998
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Posted by Steve on January 31, 1998 at 12:34:42:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Nick on January
30, 1998 at 09:28:00:
The #7 trains are layed-up in Corona yard.
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NEXT>9152
PREVIOUS>9127
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:23 1998
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Posted by Steve on January 31, 1998 at 12:37:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Josh Caesar on
January 29, 1998 at 19:39:38:
Good point! What trains lay up in Scotland Yard?
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NEXT>9168
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In the Know
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New Subway maps
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:42 1998
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Posted by In the Know on January 31, 1998 at 12:40:21:
I am told that the first 15,000 or so new subway maps will not be
installed in cars or distributed because there was a critical error
which was not found before they went to press.
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NEXT>9158
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>A piece of Advice - scanning
DATE>Feb 5 17:14:52 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on January 31, 1998 at 13:23:11:
I found out on a recent trip something about scanning--I've always had
problems in the subway with my scanner with the little rubber
antenna,the last trip, however I used the 3 ft metal extendable
antenna that ou friends at Radio Shack sell-WOW! what a difference!
All the way out at Jamaica Center Iwas picking up dispatchers in the
Bronx!! Just a tip for those with similer problems (it did't work too
bad underground, either!).
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NEXT>9234
PREVIOUS>9119
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:02 1998
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Posted by Fitz on January 31, 1998 at 14:36:40:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by
Timothy S. Speer on January 30, 1998 at 21:14:53:
Dug into my paper files and found a roster from the American
Association of Private Railroad Car Owners.(AAPRCO) It shows "Georgia"
as a former business car from the Georgia RR,now privately owned.
Roster states that the car is available for charter.(No prices
quoted-If you have to ask...) There was no listing for "Miami Beach".
I understand that AAPRCO was in the process of setting up a web
site,but I'm not sure if it's up and running yet.
I also understand that Amtrak approved private cars must carry some
sort of Amtrak marking,plus a number in the 10000 series for
accounting purposes. This might explain the Amtrak logo on the door.
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NEXT>9194
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:19 1998
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Posted by Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 14:44:32:
I know thanks to MetroCard the Transit Authority is raking in more
money than expected but I can't figure out why. Now transfers are free
when connecting between buses & subways. And on Staten Island, the
policy is even more liberal.
If you check out the MTA's Webpage about MetroCard use on Staten
Island, you'll note the only place a rider of the Staten Island
Railway (formerly the SIRT) has to swipe his MetroCard is at St.
George Station/Ferry Terminal when boarding or leaving the train. The
conductor used to collect the fare from everyone getting on the train
going toward St. George and from everyone getting on the train once it
left St. George heading toward Tottenville. Now all rides are free if
you don't use St. George. That means you can travel from Tottenville
to Tomkinsville for no cost and walk the several blocks to St. George
if you'd like. 0f course, you'll miss the ferry since the schedules
between the SIR & the ferry are so tight, but during rush hours, the
ferry has a 15-20 minute headway.
And using SIR to St. George is virtually free, no matter where you
board, if it's the middle leg of a Staten Island bus ride & either a
subway or bus ride once you've reached lower Manhattan. If you want to
take a bus to SIR, then take SIR to the ferry, then take the ferry to
a subway in lower Manhattan, then ride anyplace in the other three
boroughs, that can all be done on one MetroCard fare (if I read the
MTA's webpage correctly). Several years ago, that ride would cost
three separate fares plus 25 cents for the ferry. Then two or three
years ago, the MTA started giving free transfers between SIR &
intersecting bus lines. Now the city only gets $1.25 from that
commuter if he buys a $15 MetroCard with the one ride discount.
Actually, you can make a bigger loop for one fare like this: Start
your trip at South Ferry, Manhattan. Take the ferry to S.I. for free,
walk to Tompkinsville Station & take SIR for free to Eltingville, use
your MetroCard to board the S79 to Bay Ridge, Brooklyn; then use your
MetroCard's free transfer to board the R subway back home.
I'm not trying to give a hard time to Staten Islanders. I'm sure
commuters from the forgotten borough are saying it's about time they
had free transfers to the rest of the city's buses & subways. But with
the elimination of two-fare zones, one-fare subway-to-bus roundtrips
within two hours and all the other quirks of the system, such as on
Staten Island, how is the Transit Authority raking in so much more
money?
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NEXT>9163
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Paul
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>AK bridge
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:23 1998
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Posted by Paul on January 31, 1998 at 14:53:22:
How high is the AK bridge from Staten Island to NJ?
How long is it? I heard it was pretty long.
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NEXT>9140
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:29 1998
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Posted by David on January 31, 1998 at 14:56:07:
If I am caught on the North Shore Line, walking the ROW, will I get
busted?
I assume it is abandoned so I assume nothing will happen.
Need some feedback.
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NEXT>9202
PREVIOUS>9125
POSTER>David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:31 1998
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Posted by David on January 31, 1998 at 15:46:56:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap posted by Steve on January
31, 1998 at 12:23:03:
Steve et al,
Why apologize? I AGREED with Lou! I've been going to and fro faster
than I have in a long time. May the 60-footers be on the Q for years!
Call me Longitudinal Seat Dave
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NEXT>9190
PREVIOUS>9117
POSTER>Fernando Perez
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Where 7500 and 7000 go
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:38 1998
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Posted by Fernando Perez on January 31, 1998 at 16:48:07:
In Reply to: [8]Where 7500 and 7000 go posted by The Real Deal on
January 31, 1998 at 08:04:28:
I dont know exact rosters, but the first 7000's went to Queens village
depot and many 7500's are now operating out of the soon to be closed
100 St. depot.
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NEXT>9231
PREVIOUS>9114
POSTER>Chuck
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 5 17:15:53 1998
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Posted by Chuck on January 31, 1998 at 17:08:51:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Philip Nasadowski on January 29, 1998 at 22:09:25:
TORONTO! More people ride the "6" in one day than ride Toronto in one
year. By the way, where is Toronto anyway? My brother thinks it's
somewhere by Utica.
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NEXT>9141
PREVIOUS>9110
POSTER>Bobw
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:16:58 1998
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Posted by Bobw on January 31, 1998 at 17:30:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Mellow One on January 30,
1998 at 22:49:52:
This actually occurred in the late 1880's/early 1890's, and was
prompted more by the cities and towns of the state rather than the
railroads. The fears of local officials were that the large railroads
would eventually control the street railways and could use their
tracks to deliver freight cars over local streets. There are still
many instances of freight lines in streets which railroads built
before municipalities began to deny access to the streets. This also
prompted the grade separation of mainline railroad tracks from city
streets, which explains the lack of grade crossings in larger cities
such as Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, etc.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Pelham Train (#6)
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:01 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on January 31, 1998 at 19:17:16:
I am completing the "H" in Manhattan by doing the 6 from City Hall to
Pelham. Any trivia, photos, etc. will be appreciated.
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NEXT>9155
PREVIOUS>9134
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:03 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 31, 1998 at 20:14:47:
In Reply to: [7]North Shore posted by David on January 31, 1998 at
14:56:07:
What north shore right of way are you refering to?? Mil. to Chi.??
Many parts of it that exist are bike trails and walking paths
depending on where you are.
What sections did you want to check out?
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NEXT>9221
PREVIOUS>9138
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:05 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 31, 1998 at 20:25:21:
In Reply to: [7]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Bobw on January 31, 1998 at
17:30:27:
The TMER&L ran quite a bit of freight on their interurbans which were
standard gauge. Most was in box motors but they did pull exchange
freight.
The bath tub train from Kohler Wis was run through at night many times
to hide under the cover of darkness.
After a while they did constuct a bypass around Mill. Now the route of
I-894 to take the coal trains for the power plant off city streets.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9124
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: To Sammy the Feckless
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:09 1998
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Posted by Joe M on January 31, 1998 at 20:30:47:
In Reply to: [7]To Sammy the Feckless posted by Steve on January 31,
1998 at 12:09:08:
People get sick on trains, in church, at the store. It's unpleasant
but It happens.
Get Over It!!
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NEXT>9176
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New Map- I saw on on a Train
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:12 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on January 31, 1998 at 21:20:55:
I saw the new map in a car on the 6 line. It is an updated version of
the regional Map that MTA put out. It looks like it has less detail on
the subway and shows LIRR ,Metro North connections, etc. I saw someone
carrying one but couldn't get close enough to ask where he got it
from.
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NEXT>9172
PREVIOUS>9115
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux)
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:15 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on January 31, 1998 at 22:02:51:
In Reply to: [8]Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux) posted by
Sammy on January 31, 1998 at 02:42:41:
I have tried to stay out of this feud but now I feel I must respond.
true there are problems in the subways such as stalled trains,
re-routes due to track problems or rebuilds. What person ever lived in
a house or owned a car or TV or appliance that did not need repairs.
In the 1970s New York nearly went broke. The decision was made to keep
the trains rolling rather than shut them down. MTA,NYCT are now going
back and trying to make up for the lack of maintenance. Do you tear
down your house because it needs a ne roof or a new furnace or new
driveway?
Thanks for your comments. Steve is doing what he can to keep the
trains rolling but he can only do what he can.
The subways, in spite of their problems, are still New York's greatest
asset. You have never been here during a transit strike- One way
bridges, walking to work, gridlock all day. We need the system. Give
them time! It was not built in one day and can't be fixed in one day-
especially if we keep it running while it is repaired.
(let me climb off my soapbox now!!)
Steve for Mayor !!! :-)
Steve for MTAS Prez :-)
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NEXT>9146
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mike
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line.
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:20 1998
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Posted by Mike on January 31, 1998 at 23:05:44:
On Friday, January 30th, I happen to rode a R62A on the #5 line which
never runs the R62A cars. I would like to know why there happens to be
R62A running on the #5 line. Post any information on this.
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NEXT>9154
PREVIOUS>9145
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line.
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:23 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 01, 1998 at 01:10:23:
In Reply to: [7]Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line. posted by Mike
on January 31, 1998 at 23:05:44:
I think there is only one train of R-62s assigned to the #5 train,
which, as far as I know, only operates during the rush hours.
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NEXT>9183
PREVIOUS>9100
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:32 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 01, 1998 at 01:33:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame! posted by Philip
Nasadowski on January 30, 1998 at 22:20:19:
How old are the trains that operate on SEPTA commuter rail lines? They
don't seem too much older than NJ Transit trains, but they are in
horrible shape! Whoever designed the interior finish and coloring was
either colorblind, or had a breath of 100-proof. No sane person I know
of could come up with worse color coordination than that -- brown
walls, worn-looking fake wood paneling, and red and yellow seats. Not
only that, but the trains always seem to be banging or creaking or
making some sort of funny noise it probably shoudn't be making.
That burning smell was most likely the brakes, although I wouldn't be
surprised if it was also the motor.
Suburban Station is too . . . how should I put it.
I can't really discribe it, but it doesn't seem too pleasant. It seems
too big . . . too utilitarian . . . too bland . . . no personality.
Is SEPTA planning on ordering any new equipment to replace or enhance
the trains currently in service?
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NEXT>9150
PREVIOUS>9085
POSTER>DB
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:35 1998
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Posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at 02:01:05:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by Michael S. Buglak on January 30, 1998 at 18:08:54:
It seems as you are flying on the El between 15 and 30 the tracks
separate and what appears to be a ramp is in the middle of the tunnel
- is this the old station? Or the old El?
Also, when the blue line (MFSE) de-railed around 30th a few years
back, is it true they actually had to dig up the street to get down
there?
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NEXT>9153
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:38 1998
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Posted by Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto on February 01, 1998 at 02:21:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: How about creating "new" transfer stations? posted
by Sammy on January 30, 1998 at 02:31:23:
This is ridiculous!
I read the board at work, so every weekend (here in Israel it's Friday
and the Sabbath) I don't check in, but I've always been able to catch
up Sunday morning. Not anymore!
Two days and we've lost it - OVERFLOW! Maybe you should extend the
length of the active messages...
I hope you get to read this
before.........................ooops.....................bye..........
.................
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NEXT>9171
PREVIOUS>9148
POSTER>Jim
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:40 1998
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Posted by Jim on February 01, 1998 at 03:36:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at 02:01:05:
No, that is not from any old station. The EL did not stop at 30th St.
Coming east it made stops at 46th, 40th, 36th, and 32nd, than it went
down the hill, under the high-line, and made a left, than a right in
front of 30th St. station.
As it decended it crossed the river. On the east side of the river, on
both sides of the el, the trolleys ran and there was a trolley station
at 24th st., before both the EL and trolleys went underground. The old
B&O railroad station was in the same 24th St. area. Than the trolleys
would stop at 19th St.
I don't recall them digging up the street and don't think that they
did.
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NEXT>9169
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>The Real Deal
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Can R62A have side to side cabs
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:44 1998
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Posted by The Real Deal on February 01, 1998 at 07:37:20:
Can the R62A pull it's moterman and conducter cabs end to end like the
4 train? If so why don't they do it?
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NEXT>9160
PREVIOUS>9128
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:48 1998
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Posted by Fitz on February 01, 1998 at 09:37:27:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Reggie on January
31, 1998 at 12:06:24:
Not exactly. While it's true that BMT/IND cars can't run in the narrow
confines of the IRT,the smaller IRT cars have no problem fitting into
BMT/IND tracks and tunnels. The only problem is that the location of
the tripcocks differs in each division. To address this,certain cars
are equipped with tripcocks on both sides.
Corona Yard performs inspections and minor repairs on #7 cars. Those
cars in need of major repairs are sent to Coney Island Yard using a
track connection near Queensboro Plaza. There is also a track
connection from the IRT Broadway line into 207th St. Yard.
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NEXT>9211
PREVIOUS>9149
POSTER>David Pirmann - Web site host
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 5 17:17:55 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann - Web site host on February 01, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Dave: Hold your horses! posted by Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
on February 01, 1998 at 02:21:00:
Ben-Zion,
First, the more articles there are, the longer it takes to load the
pages. If I let there be more than, say, 100 articles, people complain
it takes too long.
Second, each time a new post is made, the main index.html file and any
article that the new one is a followup to must be rewritten by the
wwwboard program. The more messages there are in the system the longer
this takes. The software has been known to screw up in the case of
more than one person posting at a time.
Third, THE POSTS THAT ARE REMOVED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE ARCHIVES!!!!!
Go look for them there. I put the removed posts into the archive
system immediately after removing them. There is no reason why you
shouldn't be able to access the archives at
[9]news://nycsubway.org/subtalk/. If you are behind a firewall you
need an NNTP proxy- ask your system administrator if that is available
if you don't already know. Using NNTP provides a number of advantages,
if you use a newsreader like Netscape News: a) what you've read is
kept track of by your browser, b) you can sort on any field-poster,
subject, date, thread; c) articles are kept threaded automatically and
I don't have to write code to do it.
The wwwboard software simply does not manage large bulletin boards
well. It doesn't have any multiuser locking (to ensure it doesn't
overwrite itself); it doesn't have an archiving function that will
keep posts in thread order (in fact it didn't have an archiving
function at all out-of-the-box). If I had time and/or I was a
programmer I'd fix these things.
I don't expect the archiving policy to change.
-Dave
-Dave
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NEXT>9200
PREVIOUS>9146
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line.
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:02 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 01, 1998 at 11:02:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line. posted by
Bootsy on February 01, 1998 at 01:10:23:
A few months ago I rode an R62a on the #5 line during midday. Oddly
enough, due to construction work, it did go express from 149 St.-3 Av.
to
E 180 St., but it was not rush hour. That's the only time I've been on
one, but I have seen at least two, maybe even three such trains parked
in the yards around 180th St. Reportedly, during the night hours, they
break up a 10-car train of R-62a's into two 5-car sets and run them as
the Dyre Ave. shuttles.
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NEXT>9162
PREVIOUS>9140
POSTER>Alan Follett
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:11 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on February 01, 1998 at 11:55:26:
In Reply to: [8]Re: North Shore posted by Joe M on January 31, 1998 at
20:14:47:
Of course, on a couple of segments of the North Shore, your main
danger would not be arrest, but being struck in the small of the back
by rail traffic. Aside from the obvious Skokie Swift, I'm thinking of
the portion between just north of Dempster Street and Valley Junction
at the Cook-Lake County line, where, shortly after abandonment of the
North Shore, the C&NW relocated its New Line freight trackage to the
CNS&M ROW, abandoning its own parallel line a short distance to the
west.
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NEXT>9157
PREVIOUS>9126
POSTER>Jeremy Whiteman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:14 1998
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Posted by Jeremy Whiteman on February 01, 1998 at 12:29:19:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New Subway book posted by steve L on January 31,
1998 at 00:03:25:
I would certainly like to know who I can call to obtain a copy of the
bood as well.
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NEXT>9265
PREVIOUS>9156
POSTER>Kenny from CT
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:18 1998
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Posted by Kenny from CT on February 01, 1998 at 12:56:52:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Jeremy Whiteman on
February 01, 1998 at 12:29:19:
I don't know the number, but you might find it in the official web
pages for MTA and under transit museum.
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NEXT>9164
PREVIOUS>9130
POSTER>Mike Pollock
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: A piece of Advice - scanning
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:20 1998
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Posted by Mike Pollock on February 01, 1998 at 14:05:16:
In Reply to: [8]A piece of Advice - scanning posted by Lou from
Middletown on January 31, 1998 at 13:23:11:
Radio Shack also sells a suction cup mount that will let you attach
your rubber or telescoping scanner antenna to the nearest window or
other smooth surface. I use it on the LIRR and it works quite well. I
suggest keeping some packets of alcohol wipes handy to clean the dirt
off the window for better adhesion.
Mike
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NEXT>9191
PREVIOUS>9093
POSTER>trolleybus
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:23 1998
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Posted by trolleybus on February 01, 1998 at 14:48:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re: mci bus posted by Joe M on January 30, 1998 at
20:11:18:
its a one door 45 foot bus that seats 57 passengers.
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NEXT>9226
PREVIOUS>9152
POSTER>Phil Kane
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:30 1998
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Posted by Phil Kane on February 01, 1998 at 14:49:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Fitz on February
01, 1998 at 09:37:27:
Re: "Dual Contract" yards.....
What is the function of the Linden Blvd. yard which is now reachable
by unpowered conections from the BMT Canarsie Line at Livonia Avenue
and the IRT New Lots Line at Junius Street? They were just starting to
build those steep=slope elevated spurs ten years ago when I last
visited the East New York neighborhood where I grew up.
== Phil Kane ==
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>DB
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Left out something - sorry! Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:42 1998
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Posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at 15:29:26:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at 02:01:05:
The ramp appears to be after the 22nd street trolley station. Sorry I
left this out - it was late last night 8P
In an earlier post I was told there was a stop next to or by (the
almighty "Friend" of ours) PECO before they built their building on it
in the late 50s/early 60s.
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NEXT>9170
PREVIOUS>9155
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:47 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 01, 1998 at 15:53:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: North Shore posted by Alan Follett on February 01,
1998 at 11:55:26:
I believe the original inquiry involved the now-abandoned North Shore
route on Staten Island.
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NEXT>9188
PREVIOUS>9133
POSTER>faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: AK bridge
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:52 1998
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Posted by faxman on February 01, 1998 at 16:06:21:
In Reply to: [7]AK bridge posted by Paul on January 31, 1998 at
14:53:22:
i think it is the long lift bridge in the world
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9158
POSTER>Peter Dougherty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: A piece of Advice - scanning
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:54 1998
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Posted by Peter Dougherty on February 01, 1998 at 16:42:23:
In Reply to: [8]A piece of Advice - scanning posted by Lou from
Middletown on January 31, 1998 at 13:23:11:
You can also order a "rubber duckie" antenna from an antenna
manufacturer like Larsen or Antenna specialists, cut for 160 MHz (with
a BNC connecter). This will be a significant improvement over the
scanner duckie.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
VE3-THX
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NEXT>9173
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: To Sammy the Feckless (or, Steve???)
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:57 1998
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Posted by Sammy on February 01, 1998 at 16:45:52:
In Reply to: [8]To Sammy the Feckless posted by Steve on January 31,
1998 at 12:09:08:
Feckless? How original. Again, sir, It is you who are out of touch. As
for the system being bad in the 70's, does that mean I should kiss the
tracks you walk on and say "oh, glory be, the subway [partially]
works"? We'd have less problems in the system (like waiting 30 minutes
for a N train last night with no postings anywhere), etc. if people
like you gave a damn.
Oh, and as far as the train set: don't have an older brother, don't
have a train set. However, my coworkers and underlings do appreciate
my stands because of my hard work and dedication, something that is
sorely lacking amongst those in the MTA and the unions. The day I see
a motorman say to his friend on a platform "Sorry, I can't talk, I
have to bring this train in on time" is the day I'll give it up. You
show us you give a damn, and I'll shut up.
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NEXT>9246
PREVIOUS>9054
POSTER>Peter Dougherty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 5 17:18:59 1998
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Posted by Peter Dougherty on February 01, 1998 at 17:00:46:
In Reply to: [8]map of New York subway posted by Marek Poustka on
January 30, 1998 at 02:19:44:
Marek, subway maps are easy to get and do not cost anything. You can
buy a wall-sized version of the map from the Transit Museum gift shop
in Brookyln NY for $10. They could probably arange to mail it to you
if you bought it over the telephone from them.
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NEXT>9185
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Big changes to the S53, S79, B8 & B70 bus routes in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:02 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Big changes are in store for the S53,S79,B8 & B70 bus routes in Bay
Ridge, Brooklyn effective March 1st,1998. Here are the changes
1)The S53 will make a right turn from 92nd St up Ft. Hamilton Pkwy to
86th St, then left on 86th St to 4th Av, then left on 4th Av to
terminate on the West Side. Going to Staten Island, down 4th Av, left
on 92nd St to the Bridge.
2)S79 will be the same as the S53 but will NOT terminate on the East
Side of 4th Av where the B64 bus terminates.
3)B8 will be rerouted northbound along Ft. Hamilton Pkwy to 92nd St,
then left on 92nd St to 4th Av, then left on 4th Av to 95th St,
southbound service remains UNCHANGED. Passengers on the B8 can now
transfer to & from the S53 & S79 buses on 92nd St & Ft. Hamilton Pkwy
instead.
4)B70 northbound will be rerouted as follows, left on 86th St from 7th
Av, then right on Ft. Hamilton Pkwy to it's regular service at 7th Av
& 81st St.
Post any information.
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NEXT>9198
PREVIOUS>9129
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway maps
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:04 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 01, 1998 at 18:08:55:
In Reply to: [8]New Subway maps posted by In the Know on January 31,
1998 at 12:40:21:
Do you know what the critical error was? Also, is it possible to get
one of those maps with the error on it? You can e-mail me at
adw7@cornell.edu
with the details. Thanks!
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NEXT>9196
PREVIOUS>9151
POSTER>Puzzled
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Can R62A have side to side cabs
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:09 1998
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Posted by Puzzled on February 01, 1998 at 18:15:10:
In Reply to: [7]Can R62A have side to side cabs posted by The Real
Deal on February 01, 1998 at 07:37:20:
You actually like full cabs?
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NEXT>9175
PREVIOUS>9162
POSTER>Alan Follett
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:13 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on February 01, 1998 at 18:37:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: North Shore posted by Peter Rosa on February 01,
1998 at 15:53:23:
Oops! My Chicago background is showing!
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NEXT>9182
PREVIOUS>9150
POSTER>Bobw
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:18 1998
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Posted by Bobw on February 01, 1998 at 18:53:35:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at 02:01:05:
The tracks "split" to enter the Schuylkill River tunnel. The ramp to
the old El was to the north of the current subway, between Market St
and what is now Kennedy Blvd, roughly right where the Peco Building
now sits.
The '90 derailment occurred on the double crossover west of the 30th
St station, at roughly the point at which the subway-surface ramps
begin. The damaged cars were towed through the subway to the portal
just east of 46th St, where they were then lifted out by crane and
taken to 69th St Shops. One option being considered at the time was to
cut the street to get to the tunnel, but it would require careful
excavation and the possible shut-off of major utility lines.
22nd St trolley station is approximately in the area in which the
tracks moved to the north to reach the old subway portal. 19th St is
the only original (1907) station still in its as-built configuration.
15th St is greatly changed (the westbound side is in a completely
different location from the original site) and Juniper St has been
revised several times.
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NEXT>9177
PREVIOUS>9144
POSTER>Bobw
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux)
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:22 1998
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Posted by Bobw on February 01, 1998 at 19:06:32:
In Reply to: [8]Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux) posted by
Sammy on January 31, 1998 at 02:42:41:
Like many others, I hate to get in the middle of this, but I dislike
staying out of it even more.
As another employee of a public body, I realize how difficult it is to
serve my customers the way they feel they should be served. I find
myself often in the middle, when politicians promise the world to
everyone, then in turn do not provide the budgets needed to have these
promises kept. Then the politicians can point to my department and
show the public that the lack of delivery is not his/her (the
politician's) fault, but another example of inefficient, bumbling
bureaucracy.
In these times of instant gratification and selfishness, too many
people do not realize that the provision of services can be affected
by problems which are created by our great political system. For
example, on the one hand, politicians will respond to the homeless
problem in any number of ways. On the other, much of the homeless
problem is fostered by the politicians' indecision on bigger issues
such as the care and feeding of the mentally unstable in proper
institutions. Many poltical action groups will similarly argue that
the homeless have a right to not only sleep on the street and pester
people, but they should also be allowed to do their business (i.e.
evacuation of bodily wastes) wherever they care, and they cannot be
removed from a public place just for being themselves. The problem of
dealing with this is again left to the provider of whatever service
since the politician sidesteps the issues at hand once again.
The short of this is that many public agencies have tremendous people
who manage to keep things functioning with the limited resources
permitted by politicians while keeping the public at least satisfied.
Of course, there's always certain elements of the public that want it
all for free or for as little cost as they can get away with, and they
will complain to whomever will listen until they are appeased.
My advice - the subway system does what it can given the craziness of
our times. It is run by good people who have made creativity an art
form. If anyone, as a paying customer, does not like the product,
he/she is always free to try the alternative.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9165
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: To Sammy the Feckless (or, Steve???)
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:29 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 01, 1998 at 19:22:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: To Sammy the Feckless (or, Steve???) posted by
Sammy on February 01, 1998 at 16:45:52:
Sammy, my dear, "FECKLESS" does not mean out of touch. It means
irresponsible (also worthless, a meaning I did not intend). You are
irresponsible because you continually site alleged incidents, state
them as facts without the offering the smallest bit of documentation.
You state that people like me do not care about the public. You come
into contact with just a small segment of the MTA and yet you paint
them with a broad brush. How do you do that? See, when you see a train
operator (motorman is not used anymore because it is gender specific)
talking to a friend and delaying his/her train, take the car #,
location and time and call 330-1234. When you get on a train and it
stalls and you want an explanation, call that same number. If you are
on an exceptionally dirty car or one that smells of urine - ditto.
Your complaint will be forwarded to the responsible manager and you
will receive a written answer to your complaint. Does that sound like
they do not care.
From the moment I reach Penn Station in the morning until I get off
there at night, I am on duty although I'll only be paid for eight of
my nine, ten or more hours. I am constantly riding with the crews,
monitoring the radio, reistructing crews and generally "On the job",
whether it is my line or another. I respond to emergencies before I am
asked to and so do many of my peers. I cite the derailment at 135th
ST. as an example. That was one of the worst accidents I have seen in
more than 2 decades. However, it hppened in a critical area and dozens
of managers (who you say don't care) spent their 4th of July weekend
(most without pay) to insure that service would be up and running
within a day. I was there 20 hours and there were those who were there
longer. So, Sammy, don't say that WE don't care.
I don't know you personally but when it comes to this issue, I'll bet
you've never been more wrong in your life. ten or twenty years ago not
withstanding (and I did not mention the 70s or 80s) we, the NYC
Transit System are damn good at what we do. We are by no means perfect
but compared to other systems that I have ridden, considering the
size, we are good. Other systems seek our people to advise them. One
of our Line General Superintendents just returned from Toronto after 4
month helping the TTC set up their new Control Center. At the APTA
conventions, we are the ones others seek out to talk to. We are
professionals and when you complain about filth or unruley passengers
just remember, you deal with it only when you ride. We deal with it 8
hours a day. If we do not do things correctly "in the eyes of Sammy"
perhaps that's because Sammy is wrong.
By The Way - Sammy dear, what underlings does a stewardess have?
Think about it........
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NEXT>9180
PREVIOUS>9121
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:37 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 19:31:22:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Mike
Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 11:12:56:
Just to review my long ago letter:
At a symposium at City Planning, L. Reuter said that new computer
controlled signals and trains with variable length blocks will allow
40 trains per hour. These signals will be installed on the Canarsie
line first, and gradually expanded to the entire system. The F line
currently includes 14 rush hour trains, and the B/D/Q trains 25. That
means that all those lines can be served the Rutgers tunnel if the
tracks merge after York/DeKalb, divide again before East
Broadway/Grand, and if new signals are installed.
The Cranberry connections, if built, would allow the N train to return
to express service. If the Astoria line were connected to LaGuardia,
as proposed (but not funded), the airport could be served not only by
the N but also by an increased fare airport express train, which could
run from LaGuradia, down Broadway on the express track, through the
Cranberry Tunnel, out Fulton Street on the express track, and into JFK
via the proposed Port Authority rail system.
These links would also give the TA much flexibility, with many
possible routes from various parts of Brooklyn to the 8th Avenue, 6th
Avenue, and Broadway Lines. If it were up to me, I would run the B, D,
Q, N, and R (from 36th Street) express to get people on the southern
rim to Midtown as quickly as possible, since Midtown is further away.
I'd run a frequent M local from 9th Avenue, with some terminating at
Chambers and turning around, to serve nothern 4th Avenue and to allow
other riders to transfer for Downtown Brooklyn or Lower Manhattan,
since they are closer. But that is just one of many possibilities.
How much would the four connections cost? The Queens Boulevard
connection is $700 million -- we can't afford four of those. But that
price is insane! I'll be an ironclad design-build contract for $800
million would net all four connections. Some of the money could be
that saved by not paying $500 million a decade to keep the Manhattan
Bridge from falling down.
By the way, if you go into www.newsradio88.com, you can E-mail
questions for ask the Mayor and Ask the Governor, program which are on
every month on WCBS AM 880. Given that the Governor is up for
re-election, his base is upstate, upstate New York is suffering
stunning job losses in the face of growth everywhere else, I'll bet
he'd like to pick up a few votes in Brooklyn. Of course, he has
already promised to spend all the money on suburban luxo-schools and
Medicaid waste, but still. Maybe if for or five or ten people E-mailed
demanding a solution to Manhattan Bridge problem (and the airport
connection) it would get on the air, and get his attention. After all,
Governor face real elections, since it one of the few state and local
offices the two gangs of theives fight over instead of parcelling out.
I'd advise keeping the questions short to get them on the air.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9170
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:43 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at 19:42:15:
In Reply to: [7]Re: North Shore posted by Alan Follett on February 01,
1998 at 18:37:24:
I wasn't sure either. The request for info needs some clarification.
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NEXT>9197
PREVIOUS>9143
POSTER>Allan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:51 1998
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Posted by Allan on February 01, 1998 at 19:53:57:
In Reply to: [8]New Map- I saw on on a Train posted by subway-buff on
January 31, 1998 at 21:20:55:
The NY Transit Museum Gift shop in Grand Central has these maps in the
information racks.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9172
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux)
DATE>Feb 5 17:19:58 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 01, 1998 at 20:17:10:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Steve??? (One last 'ride from hell' redux) posted
by Bobw on February 01, 1998 at 19:06:32:
Well said ....
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NEXT>9179
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Linden Shops
DATE>Feb 5 17:20:09 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 01, 1998 at 20:23:52:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Phil Kane on
February 01, 1998 at 14:49:37:
Linden Yard is a yard in search of a purpose. Currently, Linden Shop
is used primarily as a facility where track panels are fabricated.
Once the williamsburg Bridge is closed in 1999, Linden Yard will
become more important as a transfer point for cars from East NY Shop
which would otherwise be "trapped" on the other side of the bridge.
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NEXT>9259
PREVIOUS>9178
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Linden Shops
DATE>Feb 5 17:20:31 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 21:16:41:
In Reply to: [7]Linden Shops posted by Steve on February 01, 1998 at
20:23:52:
Did someone say the Williamsburg Bridge will be closed? Where did you
hear that? What will happen to the Broadway line?
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NEXT>9199
PREVIOUS>9174
POSTER>EricB
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 5 17:20:48 1998
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Posted by EricB on February 01, 1998 at 21:50:12:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 19:31:22:
In the East River Crossings study plan, only the Q was to use the
Rutgers St. connection. The D would use the tunnel and Broadway if the
bridge was fully closed, and the H tracks if only that side was
opened. I don't know why the West End would always be reduced to a
shuttle. They could possibly squeeze a few M's through during the
rush-hr instead of cutting it back at Chambers for good, but they feel
the ridership on it is not high enough, so the West End not only
doesn't need it, but just desn't need anything altogether.
The Nassau-Chrystie connection was in the original list of
alternatives, but failed in the 1st phase of screening. It apparently
didn't do enough for the cost of constructing it, and yes, the tracks
do cross over the J&M tracks. That's why the old pre-Chrystie Nassau
loop service was so limited.
Cranberry was never apart of the list, but they seem to feel that
construction would be too disruptive to the Bklyn Bridge approach
area.
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NEXT>9186
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 5 17:21:05 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at 23:31:06:
How was the show I missed it tonight
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NEXT>9223
PREVIOUS>9171
POSTER>Brian
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 5 17:21:12 1998
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Posted by Brian on February 01, 1998 at 23:50:37:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
posted by Bobw on February 01, 1998 at 18:53:35:
How long was service interrupted? What caused the derailment?
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NEXT>9184
PREVIOUS>9147
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE> ::
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References: <6bddps$jlg$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
Septa's trains (Silverliners) date back to the '70's. Plans are
underway to refurbish them, as NJT did with its trains. SEPTA often has
breakdowns, and the cars do have a rather drab interior, with an
exception. The even older Pennsy now Septa cars, which look ancient on
the outside, have been refubished on the inside. These trains, with the
yellow R-1 stripe on the exterior, serve the airport line (aka R-2).
NEXT>9325
PREVIOUS>9183
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE> ::
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References: <6bddgh$ja2$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
I'm familiar with Septa and the LIRR, don't know how you could say
Septa's in worse shape than the LIRR, if that's possible. The LIRR
beats Septa by far, very far. First, the LIRR's equipment isn't in such
a pathetically beat up state as Septa's. The LIRR's M series electric
mu's, which date back to Septa's trains times, still look newer and more
architecally pleasing than Septa's old trains. And the LIRR has high
level platforms at its electric stations. It takes longer to go to
Philly from where I live by train than by car, and the trains run
infrequent and travel out of the way to so many small stations, where
hardly anyone gets on. Septa runs two to four car trains, and crawls
along, partly because they don't believe in gates at crossings. Septa's
system needs major work, at least LIRR is working, such as new fleet
diesel cars and locos, new seats and interiors in its electrics, Penn
Station eventually was completed, and trackwork has been rampent on the
system. I've had several ideas on how to improve Septa - I have seen
very little effort in seven years to improve the system.
NEXT>9187
PREVIOUS>9167
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Big changes to the S53, S79, B8 & B70 bus routes in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:30 1998
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In Reply to: [8]Big changes to the S53, S79, B8 & B70 bus routes in
Bay Ridge, Brooklyn effective March 1st, 1998. posted by Mike on
February 01, 1998 at 17:19:00:
HI
Where did you see this info
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NEXT>9193
PREVIOUS>9181
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:32 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 02, 1998 at 00:01:31:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at
23:31:06:
From what I saw, you missed little.
Same plot
Identical dialogue
Same ending
Yuk
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9185
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Big changes to the S53, S79, B8 & B70 bus routes in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:34 1998
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In Reply to: [8]Re: Big changes to the S53, S79, B8 & B70 bus routes
in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn effective March 1st, 1998. posted by steve l on
February 02, 1998 at 00:00:28:
These changes have been planned for quite some time, and the
relocation of the s53 terminal has been planned since the s79 was
rerouted to serve Brooklyn. The idea is to unify the terminals for SI
buses at 86st, where ther is more layover space than there is at 95
st. Also, 86st is a major shopping lane, where the area around 95st is
not.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9163
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: AK bridge
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:36 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 03:44:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: AK bridge posted by faxman on February 01, 1998 at
16:06:21:
The AK Bridge, spanning the Arthur Kill from Staten Island to New
Jersey, is the World's Longest Vertical Lift Span Bridge, that is, it
is the longest bridge with a main span that can be raised or lowered
to allow marine traffic to pass under it. As for the exact length, and
height (raised/lowered, to mean high water), I have it here
somewhere....
-Hank
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NEXT>9208
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Hank Eisnestein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:38 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisnestein on February 02, 1998 at 04:00:38:
In Reply to: [8]North Shore posted by David on January 31, 1998 at
14:56:07:
The North Shore line on SI is abandoned, but mostly intact, and owned
by the City of New York. Walking the ROW is more of a personal safety
issue than anything else. It travels through some of the higher-crime
areas of SI. You can walk it, no problem, from St. George to just past
Snug Harbor (where there is a marble station sign indicating it's
former presence) In the Westerleigh area, the ROW passes beneath the
old US Gypsum plant on Richmond Terrace. This area is a danger zone as
well, as it is essentially a tunnel beneath a possibly (although not
officially labeled as) unsafe building. Bring a flashlight if you walk
beneath it. Just past Snug Harbor is R.H. Tugs Bar and Restaurant,
where they serve some good ribs and soup. The ROW behind the
restaurant is washed out, and the rails and some ties are hanging over
the water. Between Snug Harbor and the Port Richmond area, the ROW
passes through some private shipyards, most notably Caddell Dry Dock.
Just past the water treatment plant, the viaduct starts. You may have
to backtrack along it to get on it, as the fences are (recently) kept
in good repair. There are 2 stations on the viadut (3? It's been a
while) , and then the ROW goes into an open cut. There are several
more stations, Platforms only, as the stairs are being removed as the
overpasses are replaced, and the line ends in the Arlington Yard,
which was, when I last walked it, posted as a hazardous materials site
(this was from the late 80's early 90's, and was cleaned thoroughly
before reconstruction began) You should by this time see the new
contruction. You can either walk out to the bridge, where there are
construction trailers set up for the rehab, or follow the West Shore
branch to travis, which has recently been re-laid. You may have a
problem crossing through the private property of GATX, which runs a
tank farm that is connected via pipeliine to a tank farm in NJ, and
Kennedy Airport. Basically, just walk around the fence if you have to.
Eventually, you'll get to the new grade crossing at South Avenue.
There is a Caldor shopping plaza there, with a Nathans inside. About
here is where you'll probably have to end your walk, since the line
continues to the VISY paper plant near victory Blvd, and is fenced off
just past a small creek. The s46 bus can return you to St. George from
the Caldor Center, or if you make it to Victory Blvd (if the fence
blocks your progress, walk to shoulder of the West Shore Expressway)
the s62 bus.
-Hank
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NEXT>9216
PREVIOUS>9136
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Where 7500 and 7000 go
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:40 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:02:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Where 7500 and 7000 go posted by Fernando Perez on
January 31, 1998 at 16:48:07:
Just to note, these are the rebuilt 1981-1982 (1200-22xx) series RTS,
not the old Grumman Flxibles.
-Hank
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NEXT>9222
PREVIOUS>9159
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:42 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:07:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: mci bus posted by Joe M on January 30, 1998 at
20:11:18:
Having seen this bus, it is a 45' MCI-9, no toilet. Seats 57, no
standees. It is equipped with a wheelchair lift (I havn't seen it, I'm
assuming it's there because it's required by law) and it has the
standard luggage buckets underneath. I intend to ride it as soon as
possible. Assuming the number posted, 1861, is correct, than the last
of the 1800 series RTS buses should have been either renumbered,
rebuilt, or removed from service. I'm gfoing to ride one first chance
I get (I live close enough to the Terminal for the
x1,4,5,6,7,8,15,31,17, and 19 to have a good chance of catching it out
of Yukon)
-Hank
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NEXT>9205
PREVIOUS>9113
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:44 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:11:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by
Timothy Speer on January 31, 1998 at 00:55:30:
You're not going to see ANY double-decker AMTRAK coaches at South
Station Boston. Infact, those coaches don't operate anywhere north of
Washington, DC, or East of Chicago, due to the clearance issues on the
NE Corridor. Perhaps they could operate as the Boston Section of the
Lake Shore....
-Hank
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NEXT>9195
PREVIOUS>9186
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:47 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:14:28:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Steve on February 02, 1998
at 00:01:31:
Lets not forget lousy acting, Toronto as a stand-in, and sudden
character sex-changes. Or the directional errors, and the dialouge
screwups....
-Hank
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NEXT>9210
PREVIOUS>9132
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:49 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:22:01:
In Reply to: [8]Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway posted by
Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 14:44:32:
The free Manhattan Transfer is limited to certain bus routes and
stations. South Ferry, Rector St, Whithall St, Bowling Green, Broad
St, B'way-Nassau are a few of the stations, and only on the
M1,6,15,9,and 10 buses. Also, the transfer to SIR is good only from
those buses (for obvious reasons, the subway is fine)
The trick for me is to get the 1/9 at 231st at just the right moment
to not have to wait for the Ferry, and still get a free transfer to
both SIR and the s55 bus at Annadale to go home. I've also managed to
squeak out the transfer from Shea Stadium to the SIR.
As for getting off at Tompkinsville, unless you like long uphill walks
and work in Lower Manhattan, not needing a bus or subway to arrive at
work, what's the point of it? You'd pay in Manhattan anyhow!
-Hank
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NEXT>9203
PREVIOUS>9193
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:51 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 08:05:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Hank Eisenstein on February
02, 1998 at 04:14:28:
It seemed as if they were trying to bring the story into the '90s: a
woman conductor, a female hijacker, the fancy motion detector, the
lady cop, the increased ransom demand (inflation?). However, if you've
read the novel, you may recall that Longman, or Mr. Green, the
ex-motorman, initially wanted to demand $5 million, but was overruled
by Ryder (Mr. Blue), who felt it was too much and that one million had
a "standard ring to it". There was one correction from the original:
the rigging of the controller apparatus for the getaway. In the novel,
Longman did break out the front window of the motorman's cab in order
to join the pipes together, and this was accurately portrayed.
Other than that, I thought it was weak all around. At least they could
have shot the subway sequences in New York.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9169
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Can R62A have side to side cabs
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:53 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 08:07:28:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Can R62A have side to side cabs posted by Puzzled
on February 01, 1998 at 18:15:10:
I know I don't care for full-width cabs.
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NEXT>9422
PREVIOUS>9176
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:55 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 02, 1998 at 08:19:38:
In Reply to: [7]New Map- I saw on on a Train posted by subway-buff on
January 31, 1998 at 21:20:55:
Go to Grand Central Terminal, Museum Shop got a whole rack of those
ugly things,
foti
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NEXT>9206
PREVIOUS>9168
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway maps
DATE>Feb 7 16:42:59 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 02, 1998 at 08:24:08:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway maps posted by Adam on February 01,
1998 at 18:08:55:
One of the stations was crossed out when it shouldn't be, twas i think
the 116th st on the #2 or 3 in Harlem
Foti
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NEXT>9217
PREVIOUS>9180
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:02 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 02, 1998 at 09:04:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by EricB on
February 01, 1998 at 21:50:12:
The East River Crossing study a) assumed the Rutgers tunnel would only
be connected on one side, limiting its use to the number of trains
which could get through East Broadway, Delancy, and Second Avenue (ie.
25). Thus the F (14) plus the Q (10) is all it could hold. With a
second connection to Grand Street, this constraint is lifted. The
grade is gentle, and the ROW would run along a little-used street
alongside the Manhattan Bridge. CONNECT BOTH SIDES!
The East River Crossing study concluded the Manhattan Bridge is
someone else's problem. While my state and federal taxes may
justifyably be used to connect Long Island and Queens residents to
Grand Central, it seems no money is available to maintain a connection
to Brooklyn. As for disruption, what about the loss of Broadway
express service for the past decade! Isn't that disruption? What about
the theat of losing all four tracks of the bridge? Isn't that
disruption? What about all the road construction over the past decade.
Isn't that disruption.
I know about studies -- I do them for a living. Most work backward
from the conclusion, and the conclusion is to cut 20 trains from
Brooklyn to Manhattan at rush hour. Those who use them can walk to
connections. When the lines become brutally crowded, people will move
out, and Brooklyn neighborhoods will decline. Then the 20 trains won't
be needed. God forbid anyone collect facts before the conclusions are
known -- that might reduce their options. The official mantra of the
public policy researcher is "no Galeleo, I won't look through the
telescope." I do not want to hear about the conclusions of that
bullshit study. It is no different that the 1986 study that concluded
the Manhattan Bridge could be fully repaired in three years for $100
million.
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NEXT>9214
PREVIOUS>9154
POSTER>aaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line.
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:04 1998
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Posted by aaron on February 02, 1998 at 09:13:36:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line. posted by
Dan Schwartz on February 01, 1998 at 11:02:03:
No surprise, I posted this about six months ago. Go to Atlantic Avenue
at 7:20 am and you can ride it to Manhatten every weekday!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Deadman controls on NJT ( WAS:Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:06 1998
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In Reply to: [8]Deadman controls on NJT ( WAS:Re: REMAKE of Taking of
Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR) posted by subway-buff on January 31, 1998
at 07:10:35:
Here in Chicago, the CTA has both a deadman control and the cab signal
system you describe. When you used to be able to sit across from the
motorman's booth (before they instituted one-person operation for all
lines), it was a common thing to hear the BEEEEEEEEP and then hear the
motorman racheting down the speed control. It was also not uncommon to
hear the beep go longer than usual and have the automatic braking kick
in (fairly gently, not as suddenly as you'd expect), and then you'd
hear the motorman rachet the control down to dead stop and then back
up to speed.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9135
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:08 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 09:42:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-40S & R-68A Re-swap posted by David on January
31, 1998 at 15:46:56:
I also like the idea of R-40s and, for that matter, R-32s on the
Brighton Line. It's nice to be able to get a clear view through the
storm door window, instead of straining to see anything through a
full-width cab. I was even able to take a few pictures through the
front window of a Manhattan-bound Q train of R-32s on the Brighton
Line last fall, right after pulling out of Sheepshead Bay. At that
point, the Empire State Building looms dead ahead. I also got a good
view of the 63rd St. tunnel.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing R-32s back on the D line, too.
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NEXT>9204
PREVIOUS>9195
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:13 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 09:53:06:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at
23:31:06:
I didn't think that it was so bad, but I did have some problems:
1) Mister Brown? Anyone with two eyes could see she wasn't a "Mister".
Of course, neither was Mr. Gray, but that was for different reasons.
2) "Do you still have the death penalty in this state?" "No, we don't"
Er, um, ah, actually, you do! Do you think they were sticking a little
too close to the original script?
3) The amount of the ransom:
I had at first thought that the amount was decided upon because it was
the amount that could be carried out of the subway --
a) The Olmos character points out rather obviously that they could ask
for much more than $5 million if they wanted to, and the hostages are
somewhat offended at being ransomed for only five million dollars
total.
b) When the Olmos character objected to two men being able to carry
five million down the tunnel, Mr. Blue was quite sure that they could.
But then I realized: if two men could carry five million, why didn't
they ask for ***ten*** million dollars? It was as if Blue anticipated
it coming down to himself and one other.
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NEXT>9207
PREVIOUS>9203
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:16 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 02, 1998 at 10:45:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by John B. Bredin on February
02, 1998 at 09:53:06:
I couldn't help but laugh at the technical errors. Just a few come to
mind this morning:
* On an interior roll sign, the train's origin was "Pelham New York"
Duh. How many NYCT roll signs are there that remind you that you are
in New York?
* The title of the film, "Pelham 123" refers to the originating
terminal and departure time of the train. So it takes an hour and a
half to get from Pelham to midtown (1:23 to 2:50)?
* Most Cineston controllers that I've seen and used are configured
with "coast" in the 6 o'clock position, with power increasing as you
go towards the 9 o'clock position and braking increasing as you go
towards the 3 o'clock position. I'll have to play back the tape to be
sure, but I believe I saw that scenario used, as well as the opposite
at differing times in the movie!
* When the power is cut with at the electrical box in the tunnel,
lights blink and sparks fly. In reality, it should all shut down
rather smoothly, eh?
* (And I've wondered about this ever since the original came out) When
the passengers realized that the train was running "driverless," why
didn't one of them just pull the red emergency cord, conveniently
located at both ends of each car? The orginal would have benefitted
from one of the bad guys cutting the cords as a preventive measure
against someone doing that.
* Finally, the trackbed was pretty darn clean for NYC. I guess they
got the new vacuum train to run through just before filming :-)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9192
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:19 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 02, 1998 at 11:00:17:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New, unrestored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 02, 1998 at 04:11:13:
Could I have seen sleeper cars or something? I know I have seen a
double-decker something, and it is very possible it was part of the
Lake Shore Limited...
I love the new engines they are running, but they look silly when they
put one of the older ones in tandem with the cool new ones.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9198
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway maps
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:21 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 11:24:10:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway maps posted by sdc-foti on February 02,
1998 at 08:24:08:
If this is the true nature of the error, the value of the rejects will
be minimal, because forgery will be too easy (I.E. something added).
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NEXT>9209
PREVIOUS>9204
POSTER>Michael B.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:24 1998
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Posted by Michael B. on February 02, 1998 at 11:24:29:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at
23:31:06:
Did you all notice the bogus route letters and numbers used on the
control board..i.e an orange "A" line, an "X" line, etc.?
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NEXT>9250
PREVIOUS>9189
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:27 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 02, 1998 at 11:41:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
posted by Hank Eisnestein on February 02, 1998 at 04:00:38:
Thanks for the information on this "virtual ROW walk"! I'll definitely
have to try it some time, it sounds interesting (though discretion
being the better part of valor, I'll skip that tunnel under the gypsum
plant!)
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NEXT>9219
PREVIOUS>9207
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:32 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 02, 1998 at 12:08:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Todd Glickman on February
02, 1998 at 10:45:24:
>* (And I've wondered about this ever since the original came out)
When
>the passengers realized that the train was running "driverless," why
>didn't one of them just pull the red emergency cord, conveniently
>located at both ends of each car?
Hey - don't you ever read the sign on the driver's cab door?? In an
emergency - you're NOT supposed to pull the emergency cord. ;)
At least they got the fact that South Ferry is a loop right, but since
when did the 6 line terminate at South Ferry anyway?? Would that even
be possible??
My favorite goof (better than the "subway cars are 75 feet long"). One
of the terrorists asks if NY has the death penalty. The reply is "NO".
He juices himself on the third rail. $5 to the person who figures out
why I nearly fell off my chair laughing.....
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NEXT>9284
PREVIOUS>9194
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:36 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 12:16:33:
In Reply to: [7]Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway posted by
Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 14:44:32:
Here is an answer to how the MTA can "rake in so much money" even with
the SI rides being so inexpensive: Only 400,000 people live in the
Borough of Richmond. Many of these people use cars to get places. The
SIR only runs every 1/2 during most of the day. The transit in Staten
Island is, therefore, not typical of the city system.
The other 6.75 million residents of NYC + the commuters from NJ, LI,
and the NY mainland use the subways and busses at a higher rate. If
the 8% who have the longest rides and the least incentives to use
transit also get the best transit breaks, all it can do is increase
ridership a little. It certainly does not make a dent in actual total
revenues.
(Isn't it funny that SI seems so rural yet it has the number of people
as many large cities, just no major downtown of its own?)
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NEXT>9268
PREVIOUS>9153
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:38 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 12:21:24:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by David Pirmann -
Web site host on February 01, 1998 at 10:34:55:
I empathize with your workload , and am as appreciative as I can be
for your long standing service. Perhaps you can compromise and pick
another day to do web-housekeeping that does not fall over the
weekend. I can't blame religious belief for not accessing the site on
weekends, just laziness because my browser at home has not kept track
of message-read status as my office one has. and if I do access from
home, the same problem resurfaces back at work. Doing the archiving on
a weekday would be appreciated, probably by all except your boss!
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NEXT>9215
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>NYC low floor buses
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:40 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 02, 1998 at 12:25:45:
this contract is in the contracts section on teh MTA website under
NYCT:
B31161
PURCHASE 200 LOW FLOOR BUSES
OVER $10M
This project is for the procurement of 200 low floor buses from design
and bid specification development through
construction, inspection and acceptance. These buses will be 40 feet
long and 102 inches wide. The buses will meet
Environmental Protection Administration (EPA) as well as American with
Disabilities Act (ADA) standards.
Duration of Contract 24 Months SEPTEMBER
does anyone know what buses were/will be ordered, when, and what type
of buses? will they be New Flyer d-40LF's?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway maps -- Say it ain't so
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:42 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 12:27:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway maps posted by Gary Jacobi on February
02, 1998 at 11:24:10:
There was an article in the Daily News of a week ago about those
messed-up MTA system maps. It was 150,000 maps that were printed
showing the Lenox portion as being closed, or maybe it was just the
116 St. station on it as closed-- something like that. I think
according to the article that the maps were destroyed after printing
but before any distribution. None were every used anywhere. I can
imagine that -- because the trains themselves get unfolded, maybe
specially printed versions, the MTA wants to get the corrected ones
done in folded paper first, then put them on the trains.
People here in SubTalk are talking as if NYCT is not going to issue a
new subway map in March that is just for the subwway...you know, the
usual one with the line maps on the back, or the bilingual stuff. I
find it so hard to accept that after 60 years of providing maps of the
subway system, they will concede that to the MTA's mega-map, which has
both too much stuff and too little detail for a map that most people
need to carry around. Plus it doesn't contain the B/C switch coming in
March.
I bet (hope?) that NYCT will put out its regular updated map in March
with its usual box on it saying something like:
"Hey, we switched the B and C northern terminals, and we're screwing
with the 63 St. line once again, and if you think we finally finished
with the Lexington 53/51 station yet, we probably haven't, and no, we
still don't know where the G or the Q is going to terminate this
month." :-)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9200
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line.
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:44 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 12:35:09:
In Reply to: [8]Surprise, I rode a R62A on the #5 line. posted by Mike
on January 31, 1998 at 23:05:44:
It's there for late night OPTO service on the 5 Shuttle between Dyre
Ave and E. 180th Street, Bronx. Redbirds aren't be used in OPTO
service.
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NEXT>9289
PREVIOUS>9212
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC low floor buses
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:47 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 12:37:15:
In Reply to: [8]NYC low floor buses posted by Lefty on February 02,
1998 at 12:25:45:
From what I heard that's exactly what they will be.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9190
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Where 7500 and 7000 go
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:49 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 12:42:50:
In Reply to: [8]Where 7500 and 7000 go posted by The Real Deal on
January 31, 1998 at 08:04:28:
7000 - Flatbush
7001 - Gun Hill
All other 7000's at Queens Village
7500's are at 100 St, East New York and Flatbush depots
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NEXT>9239
PREVIOUS>9199
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:51 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 12:44:44:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 02, 1998 at 09:04:30:
None of these alternatives sounds especially good to me. The original
BMT thinking was: from downtown Brooklyn some trains would go through
the Financial District, some would skip the Financial District
completely and go directly to everything north of there. North of
Canal, the trains now emerging from the Financial District would be
locals for the rest of Manhattan service. It was assumed that all
midtown riders would use the bridge from Brooklyn, never the tunnel.
The Manhattan Bridge ride took (takes?) 8-10 minutes to go from DeKalb
Avenue to Grand St. People who want more trains to run through the
Whitehall or Nassau St. tunnels are just creating a much longer and
less pleasant trip to midtown Manhattan from Southern Brooklyn.
The connections to the Cranberry and Rutgers St. tunnels are a little
better, in that the Cranberry tunnel skips much of the financial
district, stopping only at Bway-Nassau really. The same with the
lightly used Rutgers St. tunnel, used by only one train, the F train,
now. I can't see how blasting new tunnel connections can be cheaper
than fixing the Manhattan Bridge.
The more they abandon the Manhattan Bridge and rely on the slow
Whitehall St. tunnel for the Bway (BMT) line, the more the Bway(BMT)
line in Manhattan will become unused and ready for eventual
abandonment. And it's sad really, because it is the most convenient
line in the city. When I lived in Brooklyn, we hardly ever had to
change trains to get anywhere. Once our line became a 6th Avenue
service, we changed for the IRT at Atlantic Avenue a lot, because the
6th (& 8th) Avenue didn't always go where we needed to go.
I vote for rebuilding the Manhattan Bridge.
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NEXT>9225
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:53 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 02, 1998 at 12:47:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Todd Glickman on February
02, 1998 at 10:45:24:
I know that NYC Transit doesn't approve of its facilites being cast in
a negative light, but this movie, from the railfan's viewpoint, was
comical.
I mean, Toronto T-1s posing as NYC IRT cars. Oh - they're the
prototype R-142s, but someone made a mistake and made them too wide
.... and see how fast they stop when tripped by a red light? My CAR
can't even do that!
Notice how every station looks the same?
Anyone notice the CTA 3200 series Morrison-Knudsen cars in the opening
credits?
I didn't know IRT cars had such nice interiors! Why bother with a full
width cab?
Amazing how much you could see w/o headlights (there were some
sequences of the train moving w/o headlights and others with the
headlights)
The car barreling driverless towards South Ferry wasn't even exciting.
The tunnels are just too clean and wide. And, hey, where's the 4 track
subway we kept hearing about?
Notice how the same subway curve was used over and over and over
again?
Notice how, as the car is speeding towards South Ferry, that one of
the scenes showed a TWO car train, not a ONE car train??
I mean, this makes the movie "Money Train" look like a documentary.
The artistic license of the directors and producers should be REVOKED!
--Mark
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NEXT>9224
PREVIOUS>9209
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:55 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 02, 1998 at 12:50:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 02, 1998 at 12:08:51:
The 6 used to terminate at South Ferry into the mid-70s, using the
shuttle route from Bowling Green to South Ferry and then switching to
the outer loop track to discharge and pick up passengers. (At least I
think it used to switch to the outer loop).
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA and the Third Rail (like "Tammy and the Doctor")
DATE>Feb 7 16:43:57 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 12:51:35:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame! posted by Philip
Nasadowski on January 30, 1998 at 22:20:19:
I know putting the third rail under the platform seems bad, but the
MFSE third rail is covered with some kind of rubber or plastic outer
layer over all of it but the bottom (because the shoe touches under
the rail. So if someone fell, they would land on the rubber covering
and would have to reach around underneath to get hurt. (It doesn't
reassure me much either, but at least it's not bare rail waiting for
some schmo to fall on it.)
BTW, The BSS uses standard over the rail shoe contact, with a wooden
cover a few inches above it.
And in Chicago, the 3rd rail really is a bare metal rail just waiting
for someone to slip while working on the tracks. THAT gives me the
creeps.
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NEXT>9233
PREVIOUS>9141
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:02 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 13:04:00:
In Reply to: [7]TRACK GAUGE posted by STEVE on January 30, 1998 at
17:00:23:
Here are the answers to your questions:
The NYC subway has alway used standard gauge track on all its lines,
including the old streetcar lines and the Staten Island Rapid Transit
(formerly a B&O line): 4 feet 8 1/2 inches. The tunnel and train
widths are different for lettered (BMT/IND) and numbered (IRT) lines.
The BMT/IND is exactly the size of the Broad Street Subway trains and
tunnels, about 10 feet wide. The IRT is about 8' 10" wide, like the
MFSE in Phila. That 10% difference really is noticeable.
It's interesting that the wide gauge (5 feet 2 1/2 inches) is used in
Phila on the line with the narrow tunnels and cars. Standard gauge is
used on the line with the wider cars and tunnels.
Baltimore used to have wide gauge for its streetcar lines. Its new
light rail and Metro line uses standard gauge. The Baltimore Streetcar
Museum uses wide gauge.
Thirty miles away the National Capital Trolley Museum uses standard
gauge, so there is no system overlap at these museums.
In parts of Europe trams and trains operate on meter gauge (39.6")
track. Those are great to look out the front window of. One city in
Germany, Stuttgart, is converting them to standard gauge, so many
lines have 3 track rails (meter+standard mixed) + the overhead
catenary wire for the tram lines, which runs on center island PRW and
in subways.
Next week: We will talk about left-hand train running in right-hand
running countries. :-)
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NEXT>9232
PREVIOUS>9191
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:05 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 13:17:30:
In Reply to: [8]Re: mci bus posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 02,
1998 at 04:07:59:
Hank,
As far as I knew - I thought that the MC-9 was out of production. I
know that MCI started building MC-12 (in 1992) exclusively for
Greyhound and they look nearly identical to the MC-9 and they are both
are the same demensions: 40 feet long and 96 inches wide. Is it
possible that the NYCT buses are suburban versions of the 102DL3 which
is 45 feet long and 102 inches wide. I believe the 102DL3 (and the new
Renaissance model) are the only 45 foot coaches built by MCI.
Wayne
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9182
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oh, you can't get to heaven on the Frankford El
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:08 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 13:24:37:
In Reply to: [7]Left out something - sorry! Oh, you can't get to
heaven on the Frankford El posted by DB on February 01, 1998 at
15:29:26:
There was a 24th subway-surface stop there (more at the surface) until
the tunnel opened in 1955. You could see the 4 tunnel archways for
years until they built the PECO Building over them. The first Market
St. El stop was 32 St.
Over a ten-year period (1946-56) Penn RR's 30th St. Station was
opened; the old Chinese Wall stub terminal tracks to 15th St were
replaced by Pennsylvania (now JFK) Blvd. and a RR tunnel to be used by
commuter trains only; the Market St. El was replaced by a subway from
24 to 45 St, and the Woodland Avenue SW Phila. trolleys (Woodland
Avenue used to branch off from Market Street) were put underground
beneath the Drexel Institute of Technology (now Univ.) and Univ. of
Pennsylvania campuses.
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NEXT>9227
PREVIOUS>9219
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:12 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 13:29:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 02, 1998 at 12:08:51:
I'll bet it's because New York State has the death penalty now. When
you get down to it, they took quite a few liberties in the original as
well. If you've read the novel, you know what I mean. For instance, in
the novel, Ryder (Mr. Blue) gets shot to death by DCI Daniels in the
tunnel. Daniels was trailing the hijacked car on the express track,
which had been boobytrapped by Ryder himself, and the train Daniels
was on ended up getting blown off the track. Daniels is never referred
to in the remake, and in the original, he never ventures underground.
Hollywood must have figured it would be more dramatic to have Mr. Blue
fry himself on the third rail rather than getting shot. I'll admit I
was surprised no effort was made to correct the oversight regarding
the female hijacker's name. Mr. Brown? Come on! Ms. Brown, perhaps.
Overall, I felt there just wasn't the same sense of urgency as in the
original. They did correct one other detail in the re-release: as he
lists his final demands before the getaway, Mr. Blue insists that all
trains between 28th St. and South Ferry lay dead. In the original,
Robert Shaw does not mention this, even though Ryder does make that
demand in the novel.
I could go on to say that in the original, the first car on the train
which pulls into 28th St. and is taken over by the hijackers is not
the same car which comes to a screeching halt in the South Ferry loop
(different width "Brooklyn Bridge" lettering on the bulkhead
destination sign), but I'll stop here.
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NEXT>9228
PREVIOUS>9218
POSTER>Stan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:14 1998
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Posted by Stan on February 02, 1998 at 13:36:35:
In Reply to: [8]The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
posted by Mark S Feinman on February 02, 1998 at 12:47:55:
Some other goofs...
If he asked for 50's & 100's why did they show them counting 20's?
Did they really have to mention the LIRR shooting?
In the tunnel why did Blue offer only 1/2 million, he should have had
$1.25
If I remember correct Blue never did ask for the money to be delivered
to the train, only to have an armored car at South Ferry.
Never forget some great lines from the original, when Pelham makes the
short move after getting the money and 3 people say "She's moving"
with
the same response "who's moving" until Walter M say's "How many
hijacked subway trains do we have"
Or.. when they go to Green's apt (dump) and Walter says "Nice place
you
have here"
Well at least the Statue of Liberty Looked real..
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NEXT>9258
PREVIOUS>9160
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:16 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 13:41:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Fitz on February
01, 1998 at 09:37:27:
Flushing line (#7) cars have the trip cocks on the same side as
B-Division (IND/BMT) cars, which is why they can operate on IND/BMT
tracks as they are. All other IRT cars (mainline) must have IND/BMT
cars added on both ends when operating over IND/BMT tracks.
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NEXT>9238
PREVIOUS>9224
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:17 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 13:56:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Mark S Feinman on February
02, 1998 at 12:50:24:
South Ferry was served by the 5 and 6, as well as the shuttle from
Bowling Green; these three routes took turns. When one of them ran to
South Ferry, the other two did not. Mainline trains (5 and 6) were
rerouted to the outer track used by 1/9 trains (and continued around
the loop) when the new R units first appeared because you couldn't
open just the center doors on new equipment. The shuttle used the
inner loop, reversing direction at South Ferry, with modified R-12s
which could open only their center doors until all Lexington Ave.
service to South Ferry came to an end in 1977. See the Abandoned
Stations section on this website for more details.
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NEXT>9229
PREVIOUS>9225
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:19 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 14:25:50:
In Reply to: [7]The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
posted by Mark S Feinman on February 02, 1998 at 12:47:55:
Fill me in please! Was this a "Made for TV." remake or what? If it
made Money Train look like a documentary, I'm not too broken hearted
about missing it! I usually can overlook the mistakes only Transit
Buffs would notice, but in Money Train, when the car barrel rolls at
the end, taking out hundreds of feet of four track columns, and the
ceiling DOESN'T fall in, surely one wonders why the engineers put the
damned things in there? To facilitate underground deaths when trains
take crossovers in error?
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NEXT>9230
PREVIOUS>9228
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:21 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 14:27:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Stan on February 02, 1998 at 13:36:35:
Here's another good line from the original: Jerry Stiller's "they're
going to fly the train to Cuba" when says he's figured out how the
hijackers are going to make their getaway.
Also, Frank Corrall, the desk trainmaster, when told there were no
buses to transport affected passengers, says into his phone, "What do
you mean you haven't got any buses? Go out and hijack some!"
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NEXT>9278
PREVIOUS>9229
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:24 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 15:20:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 14:25:50:
The remake of Pelham was made for TV, unlike the original. If you have
the original on video, you'll note that it's laced with profanity -
something they had to go easy on in the remake. As for Money Train,
most of it was filmed in a subway set about 3/4 of a mile long,
including the sequence in which the car barrel rolls over and over.
You can bet they'd never shoot something like that in the subway
itself because of the extensive damage which would result.
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NEXT>9248
PREVIOUS>9137
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:26 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 02, 1998 at 15:26:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Chuck on January 31, 1998 at 17:08:51:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada!
you know, the Toronto Blue Jays, with the maple leaf logo etc..
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NEXT>9236
PREVIOUS>9222
POSTER>trolleybus
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:28 1998
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Posted by trolleybus on February 02, 1998 at 15:32:58:
In Reply to: [7]Re: mci bus posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02,
1998 at 13:17:30:
i drove the bus today for training purposes. it is 45 feet long; the
same type of bus used by charter services. if any one wants to ride it
should be in service this week on the hylan blvd. expresses.
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NEXT>9241
PREVIOUS>9221
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:31 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 16:06:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
02, 1998 at 13:04:00:
Los Angeles had dual-gauge trackage where Pacific Electric (standard
gauge) cars ran on the same line as LA streetcars (3' 6" gauge).
San Francisco uses a variety of gauges: cable cars run on narrow gauge
track (I'm not sure of the exact width); streetcars run on standard
gauge; BART uses wide - 5' 6" - gauge.
Denver Tramways streetcars, which ceased operating in 1950, ran on
narrow gauge - 3' 6" - track. Our new light rail line, which is being
lengthened at this time, uses standard gauge track.
The St. Charles line in New Orleans uses wide 5' 2 1/2" gauge track
(same as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh), while the River Route uses
standard gauge.
Chicago used standard gauge on everything (streetcar and "L");
however, streetcar tracks there were laid closer together than normal.
Consequently, when PCC cars were ordered, their bodies had to be
mounted 3 inches off center so they wouldn't sideswipe each other!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9131
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak???
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:33 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 16:18:39:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Old, restored coaches on Amtrak??? posted by Fitz
on January 30, 1998 at 20:02:02:
Yes, they were private cars, and you don't need to own one, you can
rent them. But you DO have to be rich (or foolish), they cost a
fortune when you add up the rent, Amtrak's fee, mileage, etc..
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NEXT>9244
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:37 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 16:19:39:
On another site I commonly read, someone is claiming, in the face of
"Streetcars went out of business because National City Lines (GM, et
al.) drove them out of business" that the streetcars and interurbans,
especially L.A.'s Red Cars, went out of business because they were too
slow. To wit, he asserts that the Red Cars could travel only about 13
mph. That sounds ***really*** wrong to me, especially in the light of
the speed of other interurban operations (Chicago, North Shore, &
Milwaukee for instance.) Does 13 mph sound correct to anyone, or not?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9232
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mci bus
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:42 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 02, 1998 at 16:33:52:
In Reply to: [8]Re: mci bus posted by trolleybus on February 02, 1998
at 15:32:58:
Thanks,
That is indeed the model 102DL3. I'm assuming that the TA ordered them
with the Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine also.
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NEXT>9255
PREVIOUS>9068
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:45 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 16:35:17:
In Reply to: [7]QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Kinm on January 30, 1998 at
12:09:36:
The answer to your question is 1898 (ever notice how often the
original question gets forgotten in these threads?). I like your line
of thought; I often wonder what would have happened to Brooklyn if it
had not capitulated to the "Greater NY" movement. Combination with
Queens and Long Island is one obvious alternative, whereas Manhattan
would have gone Mainland with the Bronx,Westchester, etc. Brooklyn was
equal in many ways to Manhattan at the turn of the century. The two
could have become "Twin Cities" like Minneapolis-St. Paul, to mention
one. I think it would have been a toss-up as to which one became
larger because of the superior subdividable living space on
Brooklyn-Queens-Long Island.
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NEXT>9247
PREVIOUS>9227
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:48 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 02, 1998 at 17:29:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 02, 1998 at 12:08:51:
To comment on since when the 6 went to South Ferry:
Take a ride on the 1 to South Ferry... You will notice that there is
an outer loop (where the #1 goes) and there is an inner loop... The
inner loop was the location of the South Ferry station for the
Lexington Avenue line... They shut down this station because the new
car doors would not have alligned properly with the platform... AND,
the 6 did run to South Ferry... Just a very long time ago...
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NEXT>9240
PREVIOUS>9217
POSTER>Daniel Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:50 1998
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Posted by Daniel Valles on February 02, 1998 at 17:54:37:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 02, 1998 at 12:44:44:
Goota disagree... You can't rebuild the bridge... You could use the
Rutgers St. tunnel for a couple of lines (say the B, F, and Q), and
run the D over the Montague St. tunnel, hook up to Naasau St., and
(after the BB station), make a connection from there to the Grand St.
station... It can be done!
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NEXT>9249
PREVIOUS>9239
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:53 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 02, 1998 at 18:28:25:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 19:31:22:
I love your plan. Please keep pressing for it, as strongly as you can
without endangering your job!
Question: How long do you think it would take to build it, from the
start of construction to the point where it was all ready to go, with
the new signalling system in place? Also, how much disruption of
existing service would be caused during construction?
The only part of the plan that seems unlikely to be a winner is the
airport-to-airport train. Since the trains would share tracks with
regular subway trains, service would be slow. I still think using LIRR
tracks makes more sense for a premium-fare service, perhaps with
modified subway cars (customized versions of the forthcoming 60' R-143
cars) to be able to negotiate necessary curves within the airport
property.
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NEXT>9471
PREVIOUS>9233
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:55 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 02, 1998 at 18:44:57:
In Reply to: [7]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998
at 16:06:43:
New Orleans:
1. The New Orleans streetcar system uses "Philadelphia" gauge because
the major horsecar company in The Big Easy was built with Philadelphia
money.
2 NORTA is regauging the Riverfront line to 5' 2.5" to conform with
the St. Charles line; New cars are being built for the Riverfront (and
eventually The Canal Street line) by the NORTA Carrolton Shops; and
tracks are being laid to connect the Riverfront line to the system and
form the first piece of the return of streetcars to Canal Street.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE - Baltimore
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:57 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 02, 1998 at 18:47:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
02, 1998 at 13:04:00:
BSM uses 5'4 1/2" track since we are the tiny remains of a once great
system. The Light Rail is "standard" because we can't convince the US,
Canadian and Mexican railroad systems to convert and the MTA hosts
freight trains on the tracks at night.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>CABLE ALERT!!!(again!)
DATE>Feb 7 16:44:59 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 02, 1998 at 18:55:18:
Again, for those who cable (or dish or whatever), This Thursday Nick
at Nite is showing the classic "Lucy and the Loving Cup" episode of I
LOVE LUCY. It shows at 10 pm ET!! Have fun!!!
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NEXT>9245
PREVIOUS>9235
POSTER>Alan Follett
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:05 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on February 02, 1998 at 19:06:35:
In Reply to: [8]Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by John B.
Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 16:19:39:
I think I hit that send button too early--sorry!
If the claim you read is that the PE's cars had a top speed of 13 MPH,
the posting was far off the mark. I'm not particularly a PE expert,
but steel interurban cars of Twenties vintage were typically capable
of speeds in the 60 MPH range, and some (e.g., the Insull lines) did
much better. What the poster may have meant was that PE's routes
managed an average, end-to-end speed of only 13 MPH. This,
unfortunately, may be plausible, especially for the line's later
years. As traffic congestion in Southern California worsened after
1915 or so, PE, which had substantial stretches of street operation,
found itself increasingly tangled up by the rubber-tired competition.
On many lines, 1930-era timings were much slower than those of a
couple of decades before.
I don't have the relevant timetables handy, but it's my recollection
that end-to-end running times between downtown Los Angeles and Long
Beach in the later PE/Metropolitan Coach Lines/LAMTA years were in
much the same range as present Blue Line performance: say, around an
hour and ten minutes end to end. This was, however, one of PE's faster
lines, with a long section of PROW in the middle.
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NEXT>9251
PREVIOUS>9244
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:08 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 19:09:40:
In Reply to: [7]Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by John B.
Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 16:19:39:
The cars most certainly could do well over 13mph, but it is possible
that in worst case situations the scheduled speed could fall this low.
The problem was conflict with automotive traffic, which did lead to
public unpopularity of the cars in the postwar period. Traction was
done in by bad public relations, National city lines or not.
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NEXT>9411
PREVIOUS>9166
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:13 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 19:25:10:
In Reply to: [7]map of New York subway posted by Marek Poustka on
January 30, 1998 at 02:19:44:
The MTA website identified by the URL below has both viewable and
printable maps available. If you don't have the Adobe Reader software,
go ahead and follow their directions and download it, it is free.
Then, even if you are not hooked up to a color printer, you can put it
on a disk and have it printed in a shop.
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/Subway/submaps.htm
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NEXT>9254
PREVIOUS>9238
POSTER>Russ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:18 1998
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Posted by Russ on February 02, 1998 at 19:33:49:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at
23:31:06:
Just as a note of interest. The Hawker-Siddley, H-1 unit 5482-5483
(those were the real numbers) Were quietly moved, decals, broken
windows, and interior posters, the night after the last movie shoot,
to our Davisville Yard. There at 6:00 AM in the morning the units were
loaded onto a flatbed trailer and sent to the scrap yard to be melted
down.The scrap dealer is paying $1600.00 CDN. per car. We are
scrapping the entire H-1 fleet. The T-1's will be the replacement
units.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9231
POSTER>Russ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:20 1998
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Posted by Russ on February 02, 1998 at 19:36:28:
In Reply to: [7]Re: REMAKE of Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 (set your VCR)
posted by Chuck on January 31, 1998 at 17:08:51:
If I wasn't a polite Canadian from Toronto I'd call you a Moron!
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NEXT>9262
PREVIOUS>9240
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:24 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 02, 1998 at 19:36:51:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Daniel
Valles on February 02, 1998 at 17:54:37:
I'm telling you they've spent half a billion and ten years. If the
bridge could be fixed, it would be fixed. It would only cost $300
million of so to build a new bridge if the existing bridge were in the
way. Eventually, if something isn't done first, they'll be an
emergency and they're just going to shut down the subway (and perhaps
pull of the trucks) to preserve the bridge for cars (ie. the Brooklyn
Bridge). This is the non-plan. There is no plan.
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NEXT>9351
PREVIOUS>9208
POSTER>Michael Adler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:26 1998
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Posted by Michael Adler on February 02, 1998 at 20:09:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
posted by Peter Rosa on February 02, 1998 at 11:41:22:
Hi all,
Back in late 1980's, I walked 3 times on SIRT's North Shore line (all
from St. George (but actually started the walk at New Brighton) what
Hank described, it's little different from late 80's in terms of track
contition, Arlington Yard, etc... When I visit NYC in the near future,
I'll walk on that line again!
Cheers,
Michael Adler,
Lakewood, ColorFUL Colorado
P.S. what about walking on South Beach branch?
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NEXT>9252
PREVIOUS>9245
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:29 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 02, 1998 at 20:44:50:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by
Gary Jacobi on February 02, 1998 at 19:09:40:
The interurbans and the city traction lines had to build the track and
maintain the streets that they operated in including snow removal up
here in the north. (Not a factor on Pacific electric) Cars and buses
could use the streets and for new routes for buses the city would
build the streets.
It was cheaper to expand with buses and the tax laws offered
substantial incentives to abandon infrastructure which was often the
deciding factor in abandoning traction services and converting to
buses. The electric and traction companies did not like to talk about
this aloud though. The conspiracy theory is valid but not the only
factor.
If cities invested like Chicago and NYC did in maintaining the rapid
transit it helped keep the the central cities vital. It took public
investment in transit similar to the public investment in roads but
the appetite for express ways took it's toll (and public funds) took
it's toll even in cities like Chicago and NYC and continues to do so.
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NEXT>9253
PREVIOUS>9251
POSTER>Walter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:31 1998
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Posted by Walter on February 02, 1998 at 21:39:25:
In Reply to: [7]Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by John B.
Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 16:19:39:
In 1940 the Pacific Electric cars from 6th/Main St. to San Bernardino
(57 miles) were scheduled for 105 minutes. That's an average speed of
33 mph. The cars used on the San Bernardino run were the fastest on
the Pacific Electric, mostly because they ran a large part of the way
at a higher voltage (800, I think). The San Bernardino line also ran
mostly on a separate right of way.
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NEXT>9269
PREVIOUS>9252
POSTER>Walter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:35 1998
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Posted by Walter on February 02, 1998 at 22:05:02:
In Reply to: [7]Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by John B.
Bredin on February 02, 1998 at 16:19:39:
I just looked up some PE details in another book. The 1200-series cars
obtained from SP-subsidiary Portland, Eugene and Eastern Rwy. in 1928
that ran to San Bernardino were the fastest on Pacific Electric; they
had a top speed of 70 mph and could run on both the normal 600V routes
and the 1200 volts on the San Bernardino extension (not 800V, as I
thought in my previous submission - sorry!). These cars had 4 140-hp
motors. Other San Bernardino cars (lower numbers in the 1200 series)
had top speeds of 55 or 60 mph.
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NEXT>9256
PREVIOUS>9247
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:37 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 02, 1998 at 22:07:33:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Todd Glickman on February
02, 1998 at 10:45:24:
Regarding the emergency brake, in the book, one of the hijackers (Mr.
Green, I think), cuts the cord. If it was supposed to be done in the
movie, it was not shown (probably it was 'understood' that they would
do that -- since they thought of everything and never made a mistake).
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NEXT>9261
PREVIOUS>9237
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:39 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 02, 1998 at 22:12:03:
In Reply to: [7]Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Gary Jacobi on February
02, 1998 at 16:35:17:
All this "Great Mistake of 1898" stuff ignores the fact that NYC's
business tax base is located in Manhattan, where 40 percent of
Brooklyn and Queen residents work. Without that tax base, Brooklyn
might have become Detroit.
Consider the geographic divisions of the Catholic Church in the New
York area. The Archdioceses of New York, expanding from Manhattan,
includes Staten Island, the Bronx, and suburban Westchester, Rockland,
Putnam, and (I believe) Dutchess and Orange. It is fairly wealthy,
with only the poor Bronx (the poorest county in New York State) to
support. The Diocese of Brooklyn orignially included all of geographic
Long Island (Queens, Nassau and Suffolk). But in the 1950s, the powers
that be decided it was too big, and separated Nassau and Suffolk as
the Diocese of Rockville Center. Guess what. The Diocese of Brooklyn
is the poorest in the country, and faces ongoing financial strains in
paying for religious, health, education and social services for its
poor and (often) foreign born parishioners, while the Diocese of
Rockville Center is one of the nation's richest.
There was a big article in the New York Times Magazine about the fact
that Brooklyn should seceed. It was written by a Manhattan resident,
who presumably wants to keep the taxes generated by all those office
buildings for himself.
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NEXT>9267
PREVIOUS>9254
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:41 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 02, 1998 at 22:17:05:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Steve B on February 02,
1998 at 08:05:08:
The acting in the remake is so fake! Many times, it wasn't even
remotely realistic. You could actually see that the actors were
speaking from memorization, putting no 'realistic' feeling into their
lines, whereas in the original, it seems as if there was a lot of
improv., or else, the lines were very well memorized and the actors
put a lot of realism into their lines, making it look real.
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NEXT>9260
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:45 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 02, 1998 at 22:17:44:
Does anyone remember that bad derailment a few years back on Septa
that (I think) was caused by a traction motor, or something, dropping
off the bottom of the train?? Does anyone know anything details about
this?? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?? Or am I having
another flashback again???
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9226
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R and N switch....why?
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:47 1998
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Posted by Fitz on February 02, 1998 at 22:25:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R and N switch....why? posted by Wayne Johnson on
February 02, 1998 at 13:41:57:
Strange. By sheer coincidence,I Happened to find myself at Queensboro
Plaza this evening. Tripcocks on the Flushing cars were on the cab
side,as on the Mainline IRT. Across the platform in BMT country,the
R-32's and R-68's had them on the side opposite the cab.
Just to double check,I looked at signal G1-122 on the BMT side,and
signal 625-V on the IRT side.These are at the Manhattan end of the
Manhattan bound platform. Placement of the trip arms corresponded to
the above.
According to the NYCT Train Operator's Handbook,R-33's #9326-9334 are
equipped with 4 tripcocks,as I reported in my earlier post.
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NEXT>9321
PREVIOUS>9179
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Linden Shops
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:51 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 02, 1998 at 22:50:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Linden Shops posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 01, 1998 at 21:16:41:
The Williamsburg Bridge will be closed to train traffic for 6 months
in 1999. At that time, J trains will terminate at Marcy Ave. Trains
'trapped' on the other side of the bridge 'may' be pulled by diesel
through the Bay Ridge branch to the L Line to East NY Shop or they may
be sent to Coney Island.The book is not closed on this one yet.
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NEXT>9266
PREVIOUS>9257
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:54 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 02, 1998 at 22:53:03:
In Reply to: [8]Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Philip Nasadowski on February 02, 1998 at 22:17:44:
Philip
You are NOT imagining things. There was an accident involving a
Market-Frankford line train in the late 80s or early 90s where a
traction motor fell off while the train was crossing a switch (but not
changing tracks). This occurred during weekday rush hour. From what I
remember, there were fatalities.
Of course, it's possible I could be confusing another accident on the
Broad Street line. Maybe someone like Mike Buglak can fill in more.
Michael
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NEXT>9319
PREVIOUS>9255
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:56 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 02, 1998 at 23:44:16:
In Reply to: [8]Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 02, 1998 at 22:12:03:
the economic history of met. areas is a constant outward expansion and
migration of the wealthy. several studies recently done point out that
the periodic absorption of the outlying areas by the center enables a
stable tax base rather than the persistent attempts at economic
secession. there is no way a central city can support a transit(or any
other type) infrastructure atg the level of rush hour requirements on
a taxbase of only the permanent residents. the stingy anti tax
attitudes of the far suburbanites who "sacrifice" quality time money
so their progeny need not experience the 'inner city where the real
civilization abd commerce are centered, must be brought to heel.
instead of talking about cutting up the city, outlying areas should be
annexed, and the single fare zone extended. since MTA is the umbrella
operator,amd now that there is a mechanism, the NYCT flash oasses that
haave been announced should be valid on ANY MTA vehicle in at least
the five boros.
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NEXT>9263
PREVIOUS>9249
POSTER>Yoon Jae Lee
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:45:59 1998
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Posted by Yoon Jae Lee on February 03, 1998 at 00:21:10:
In Reply to: [8]Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Mike
Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 00:53:34:
So please fill me in on the story. I haven't been following with the
latest Manhattan Bridge updates. Are they SERIOUSLY thinking of
building a tunnel at Cranberry St. to replace subway service on the
bridge? Will I ever see Broadway N/Q express service in my lifetime
again???
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NEXT>9270
PREVIOUS>9262
POSTER>Yoon Jae Lee
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:01 1998
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Posted by Yoon Jae Lee on February 03, 1998 at 00:21:44:
In Reply to: [8]Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Mike
Rothenberg on January 31, 1998 at 00:53:34:
So please fill me in on the story. I haven't been following with the
latest Manhattan Bridge updates. Are they SERIOUSLY thinking of
building a tunnel at Cranberry St. to replace subway service on the
bridge? Will I ever see Broadway N/Q express service in my lifetime
again???
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NEXT>9283
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3 Actual location
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:03 1998
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Posted by steve L on February 03, 1998 at 00:35:55:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Joe M on February 01, 1998 at
23:31:06:
I am curious,,,what was the actual location,direction
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NEXT>9340
PREVIOUS>9157
POSTER>Chris Gonsalves--MacDill AFB, Fl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:05 1998
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Posted by Chris Gonsalves--MacDill AFB, Fl on February 03, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: New Subway book posted by Kenny from CT on January
30, 1998 at 22:11:59:
Sounds like the book of choice. Where/how can I get a copy?
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NEXT>9275
PREVIOUS>9260
POSTER>Jim
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:07 1998
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Posted by Jim on February 03, 1998 at 02:11:45:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Mike Klufas on February 02, 1998 at 22:53:03:
Mike you're right
Market Street, westbound, weekday rush hour, 8:20 a.m.
Motor was hanging down and hit every tie, coming up the hill, into
30th St. When it left 30th St., the motor jammed in the double
crossover, just west of the platform. I think no. 3 car, out of 6, was
cut in half, and that was were the deaths occured.
It was either 1990 or 91.
I went westbound, past the spot, 40 minutes earlier in car no. 5, on
my train.
I could never understand why the conductor, in car no. 4, didn't hear
that banging all the way up that hill.
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NEXT>9272
PREVIOUS>9256
POSTER>Peter Dougherty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:09 1998
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Posted by Peter Dougherty on February 03, 1998 at 03:08:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 02, 1998 at 12:08:51:
1) NY *HAS* a death penalty law on the books.
2) Blue wasn't anywhere *near* the third rail; he was between the
tunnel wall and the running rail. It was the cop (Almos) who was
standing beside the third rail!
I'll take my five via e-mail
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NEXT>9276
PREVIOUS>9211
POSTER>Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:11 1998
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Posted by Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto on February 03, 1998 at 03:55:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 02, 1998 at 12:21:24:
The issue is more that it is hard to keep up with more important
technical threads, because the fluff-stuff piles up so quickly
(..."OK, time for another quiz on the best blue buses in Secaucus
between 1944 and 1947", et al).
Often the technical discussion is REALLY USEFUL and the bumping to
archive cuts off people WHO CAN PROVIDE NECESSARY INPUT. Many times a
point is repeated by serious people who simply missed out because of
the overflow.
TECHNICAL THREADS need easy AND CONSISTENT follow-ups, if only to
avoid the need to repeat a thread (I often find this necessary).
MAYBE we should split the board into two tracks: technical and general
(good euphemism, huh?). Dave, don't scream...
Feedback anyone???
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9253
POSTER>Alan Follett
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars"
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:13 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on February 03, 1998 at 08:23:07:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Speed of Pacific Electric "Red Cars" posted by
Alan Follett on February 02, 1998 at 19:06:35:
To follow up on yesterday's posting, here are some comparative
historical running times of PE and successors from downtown LA to
downtown Long Beach:
1911: Flyers, 0:36; locals, 0:40
1929: 0:51
1959: 1:05
1990 (inaugural Blue Line schedule, from Pico): 0:55
1997 (current Blue Line schedule, from Metro Center): 0:52
...In other words, thanks to the wonders of modern traction
technology, we've restored Hoover-era running times, but haven't yet
made it back to Taft levels!
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NEXT>9271
PREVIOUS>9263
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:17 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 03, 1998 at 08:29:46:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by EricB on
February 01, 1998 at 21:50:12:
What's the daily ridership on the B/M between Coney Island and 36th
St? What's the ridership on the N between Coney Island and 36th St.?
If the N has less riders than the B/M, why is it treated as if it has
more riders, forcing B/M riders to face truncated service (to Pacific
St.) if the Manhattan Bridge were closed? By the way, what's the F
daily ridership between Coney Island and Church Ave.? Is it as high as
the B/M or N?
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NEXT>9273
PREVIOUS>9270
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:21 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 03, 1998 at 08:34:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 19:31:22:
Your comments are useful and appreciated. Readers, we now have a way
to try and get "the message across". I intend to follow up and use the
web address provided to do this. It's a good idea and I hope all
readers will do the same. And be sure to spread the word. It would
help if daily and peak period patronage on the B/D/Q/N were known, at
the point where they cross from Brooklyn to Manhattan. Maybe
politicians would pay more attention if they saw the numbers. Please
post ridership figures if you know them.
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NEXT>9315
PREVIOUS>9267
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:25 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 03, 1998 at 08:37:34:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Bootsy on February 02, 1998
at 22:07:33:
The emergency brake cords weren't cut in the original movie, either.
They were cut in the novel.
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NEXT>9274
PREVIOUS>9271
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:28 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 03, 1998 at 09:14:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 01, 1998 at 19:31:22:
The one open question regarding the Littlefield plan is what to do
about Canal St. station. Once the Broadway Express tracks are rerouted
to the lower level at City Hall, does a whole lower level need to be
built at Canal St. in order to keep it as an express stop? That would
also mean covering the trackways that lead to the Manhattan Bridge so
that passage becomes simply a transfer corridor, and it would mean
ignoring the lower platform at City Hall and running trains past there
without stopping to the new Cranberry St. tunnel connectioon.
Or, instead, how about moving the express stop to City Hall. A new
transfer passage could be built under City Hall park from the now
bi-level BMT City Hall station to the Brooklyn Bridge IRT station. As
a bonus, there could be an entrance from that passage to the Museum
Annex at the old City Hall loop station. And all the confusing
passageways at Canal St. could simply be closed for good. The three
Canal St. stations (B'way BMT, Nassau St. BMT, and Lexington IRT)
would be separate, unconnected stations, and the transfer between them
would be at City Hall instead.
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NEXT>9290
PREVIOUS>9273
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:30 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 03, 1998 at 09:35:20:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 02, 1998 at 19:36:51:
Looking at the Hagstrom Map of NYC, the poster who said to use a few
tunnels may have the right idea. My thinking is that since the Rutgers
St. tunnel is lightly used, D & Q (for example) trains could connect
either just north of just south of York St. and use the Rutgers tunnel
under the river, then go to Grand St. B trains could use the Cranberry
St. Tunnel near High St., go under the river, then go to Grand St.
also. Would that create too much congestion at the switches, though?
Or divert F trains to Bway-Nassau with the A and C and have all
service between York St. and Second Avenue be the (for example) D
train, the York St.-to-Grand St. service be the B & Q.
It's such a shame about the Bridge, especially considering that the
city went to all that trouble to make the tracks more useful by
attaching them to the 6th Avenue, then discovering that all that work
gained them nothing.
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NEXT>9286
PREVIOUS>9266
POSTER>MR.S
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:32 1998
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Posted by MR.S on February 03, 1998 at 10:33:47:
In Reply to: [8]Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Philip Nasadowski on February 02, 1998 at 22:17:44:
Maybe a Flashback
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NEXT>9277
PREVIOUS>9268
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:34 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on February 03, 1998 at 11:07:19:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by Ben-Zion Y.
Cassouto on February 03, 1998 at 03:55:01:
I don't agree that archiving a message makes it impossible to respond
to. Using NNTP to do the archiving and HTML to do "current" posts
makes for some confusion, I agree, but there isn't a better solution
available out of the box (unless the whole thing were in NNTP). Since
no one is volunteering to code a better solution, I don't see it
happening. I'm not a software developer. If there were a CGI script
package that would act as a web interface to NNTP (such that using a
separate newsreader weren't necessary) I'd definitely consider moving
to it. But I don't know of any such package.
Splitting the boards is possible given the existing wwwboard software
but you can't control human nature-- people will still post general
stuff on the technical bulletin board and vice versa. I don't think
that is a controllable element.
-Dave
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NEXT>9320
PREVIOUS>9276
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:36 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 03, 1998 at 13:11:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by Ben-Zion Y.
Cassouto on February 03, 1998 at 03:55:01:
Having separate boards for techinical and general topics might be hard
as there's no clear demarcation between the two. For instance, take
the recent thread about track gauges - is that technical or general?
I'd suggest two alternatives: New York vs. non-New York, or historical
questions vs. current-operations questions.
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NEXT>9285
PREVIOUS>9230
POSTER>Stan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:38 1998
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Posted by Stan on February 03, 1998 at 13:17:39:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Steve B on February 02, 1998 at 14:27:13:
"You're a sick man Rico"
Or the mayor's comment regarding that they have plenty of subway cars,
they won't miss one.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Midletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Oops! A Cable Alert Correction!
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:40 1998
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Posted by Lou from Midletown on February 03, 1998 at 13:24:38:
The I Love Lucy episode, "Lucy and the Loving Cup", will be on Nick at
Nite on FRIDAY at 10 p.m. ET, not Thursday as stated - sorry fot the
error!! Just in case you don't know, this is the episode where Lucy
finds herself on the Lex Ave Express, alone, with a loving cup stuck
on her head--lots of stock footage from the 50's with Low-V's R units,
etc.
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NEXT>9282
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>A Boston Question
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:41 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 03, 1998 at 13:31:30:
In the TV show "St. Elsewhere", the main exterior shots used for "St.
Eligius" hospital shows an elevated line right next to the "hospital".
Does anybody know where this is/was?? And what is that building used
as??? Just curious....thanx a lot!!!
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa. (Long Post)
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:43 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 03, 1998 at 13:41:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Jim on February 03, 1998 at 02:11:45:
Both Jim & Mike Klufas are correct about this SEPTA wreck. It occurred
on March 7, 1990 just west of 30th Street (under Market Street). Budd
Car #818, which was the 3rd car of a 6 car train heading westbound
(toward 69th Street) derailed when a traction motor broke loose from
its mounting on one of the trucks, as the car was crossing a double
crossover after having made the station stop at 30th Street. The
derailed car then slammed into a support column just past the
crossover & split open, killing 2 or 3 & injuring about 80.
The motorman tested positive for cocaine after the wreck, although
that was not found to be a factor in the crash itself. I'm not sure
what happened to the conductor in this case. The accident was blamed
on poor maintenance by SEPTA & lack of safety procedures in general.
The Market-Frankford Line was closed between 15th & 52nd Streets for
several days afterward. SEPTA & the city of Philadelphia turned
Chestnut Street into an emergency busway, using SEPTA buses from every
depot in the system to attempt to pinch-hit for the El. (They did not
even attempt to collect fares.)
For those of you in Philadelphia, the Free Library (Central Branch)has
a microfilm copy of the National Transportation Safety Board's report
on the accident. There are also several good stories that appeared in
the Philadelphia Inquirer & Daily News at the time. These can be
accessed online at
www.phillynews.com
& clicking on "NewsLibrary". Search for "SEPTA Market-Frankford" in
the year "1990". There is a charge of $1.00 to download each story,
although you can view the headline & lead paragraph for free.
At that time, I rode the El everyday from 69th Street to 30th & then a
subway-surface trolley to 22nd Street. I passed the accident site
eastbound about 15 minutes before the crash occurred. I always thought
that crossover near 30th Street was awfully rough (& still do)! I
heard about the accident from a friend who called me at the office
wondering if I had been on that train after he had heard the first
reports on the radio. That night, the traffic in Center City
Philadelphia was about the worst I had ever seen, with a solid line of
SEPTA buses on Chestnut Street. (I took the R6 back to Norristown that
night instead of the Route 100 trolley from 69th St.)
AFAIK, the remains of Car #818 are still stored outside at the 69th
Street El Shop, covered by a tarp but still partly visible from
passing SEPTA buses or (from a distance) from Route 100 cars.
Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA
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NEXT>9312
PREVIOUS>9280
POSTER>Frank Gatazka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: A Boston Question
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:45 1998
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Posted by Frank Gatazka on February 03, 1998 at 13:44:00:
In Reply to: [8]A Boston Question posted by Lou from Middletown on
February 03, 1998 at 13:31:30:
The "St. Elsewhere" shot was filmed near Northampton and Washington
Streets on the Orange Line (Old Main Line El). The El was discontinued
in 1984, replaced by the South Cove subway/cut line to Forest Hills.
The building, whose edifice served as St. Eligius, has performed
several duties through the years (none of them a hospital). It
currently serves as a housing center for the elderly.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9264
POSTER>Russ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3 Actual location
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:47 1998
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Posted by Russ on February 03, 1998 at 14:50:35:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 Actual location posted by steve L on
February 03, 1998 at 00:35:55:
The actual location was our infamous Bay Lower Station. Orignally
designed as a "Y" station allowing East bound trains to go downtown
and northbound trains to go eastbound. The direction of the station is
east to west and you enter E/B from N/B Museum Stn. Westbound trains
enter from Yonge Stn and down the ramp into Bay Lower. The entire
length of the usfeul track for movies is about 2500'
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PREVIOUS>9210
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn (ex-Staten Islander)
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:49 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn (ex-Staten Islander) on February 03, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Free Rides on the Staten Island Railway posted by
Reggie on January 31, 1998 at 14:44:32:
SIRT is a pretty cheap operation come to think of it. 1/2 hour headway
and except for the Morning rush which use's more trainsets then the
evening because of different starting points or I mean deadhead moves
then the evening rush. There are only what, 4 express runs at night. 5
minute timetable departure difference then the local for that train
meeting that boat.
I believe it will get even cheaper since I think they are going OPTO
except for rush hours. This two track system with may be 4 or 5 trains
out on it with one dispatcher doesn't seem as expensive.
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NEXT>9298
PREVIOUS>9278
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:51 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 03, 1998 at 15:20:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Stan on February 03, 1998 at 13:17:39:
As long as we're on the subject...
The deputy mayor trying to convince the mayor they're tring to run a
city, not a &!$#@#$ democracy: "Al, quit farting around - we've gotta
pay!!"
"...and here is our operations lieutenent, Mr.Rico Patrone, who on
weekends works for the Mafia." (Walter Matthau, introducing Rico to
the directors of the Tokyo subway)
"We had a bomb scare in the Bronx yesterday, but it turned out to be a
canteloupe."
"You know what happens - what always happens. I'll get booed."
"Why? Do you think they're from out of town?"
"Get dressed, Al. I'll do the jokes."
"Geez, it's the @#%&$#@ mayor!"
"Go away, will you, Frank? Go play with your trains."
"Yeah, I know how to read, Rico."
"Screw the @#$%#$% passengers! What the hell do they expect for their
lousy 35 cents - to live forever?" (this was 1974, after all)
"How come that gate ain't locked?"
"Who's going to steal a subway train?"
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NEXT>9328
PREVIOUS>9275
POSTER>Dr testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:53 1998
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Posted by Dr testa on February 03, 1998 at 15:22:05:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Jim on February 03, 1998 at 02:11:45:
The accident was in 1990. It's a good thing I took the train home that
day.
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NEXT>9288
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dr testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Subway track maps
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:54 1998
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Posted by Dr testa on February 03, 1998 at 15:49:18:
Does anybody know where
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NEXT>9294
PREVIOUS>9287
POSTER>Dr Testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Subway track maps
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:56 1998
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Posted by Dr Testa on February 03, 1998 at 15:57:15:
Does anybody know where I can acquire employee timetables for Septa's
Broad street and Market Frankford lines.
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NEXT>9493
PREVIOUS>9215
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC low floor buses
DATE>Feb 7 16:46:59 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 16:08:38:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC low floor buses posted by Wayne Johnson on
February 02, 1998 at 12:37:15:
when are they to be delivered? what lines will the operate on? i
remember posting about low floor buses here a few months ago and
poeple said they would be bad for the city because there is a step up
in the middle and that is hazardous for buses with lots of people
standing which happens alot in NYC..
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NEXT>9291
PREVIOUS>9274
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:02 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 03, 1998 at 16:42:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 03, 1998 at 09:35:20:
The way I understand it, prior to the Chrystie St connection, the
south side tracks, which at the time led to the Nassau loop, were
underused. Speaking of the Nassau loop, has anyone looked into the
feasibilty of tying the now-unused tracks from Chambers St., which led
to the bridge, into the now-unused connection which the KK used to
take? There would have to be several flyover junctions put in, along
with possible track reconfiguration north of Chambers St., but, with
two tracks at that location not being used, it may be worth
considering. I can't help but speculate why this wasn't done when the
Chrystie St. connection was built in the first place.
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NEXT>9293
PREVIOUS>9290
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:04 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 03, 1998 at 17:17:20:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Steve B on
February 03, 1998 at 16:42:53:
"Underused" overstates it, even. After 1958, very, very few rush hour
trains ran on it. The service was never listed anywhere. I never rode
on it because I never knew what train ran when on the Nassau loop side
of the Bridge. Once in my entire life I actually saw a train on that
side before 1967. Apparently, when I was too young, Culver trains ran
clockwise and West Ends or Brighton specials ran counterclockwise, or
something like this, but I am not sure.
Then they built this whole 6th Avenue connection thing to essentially
add a useful extra 2-track connection between the boroughs, then lost
it, and now may lose the original 2-track side of the bridge.
Perhaps they should just move the tracks to the automobile part of the
lower level of the bridge and have cars use just the upper level. Most
cars try to use the upper level anyway. I know that would be a lot of
expensive construction, but it would take the strain off the sides of
the bridge and it would at least accomplish something with the bridge.
I bet more people cross the bridge by train than by car, just as down
here in Washington, twice as many people get through the 2 carpool/bus
lanes of our biggest highway through Virginia than get through in the
4 1-person lanes per rush hour.
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NEXT>9365
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:06 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 03, 1998 at 17:25:49:
In Reply to: [8]Subway track maps posted by Dr Testa on February 03,
1998 at 15:57:15:
AFAIK, SEPTA does not issue separate "employee" timetables (like a
railroad employee timetable) for the Broad St. or Market-Frankford
Lines. If you would be interested in public TTs for these or any other
SEPTA lines (any mode-subway, bus, trolley or whatever), you can find
them online on SEPTA's website at:
www.septa.org
or if you prefer, email me with your name & address along with what
routes/lines you want, & I'll mail timetables to you. Okay?
Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA
buglak@email.chop.edu
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NEXT>9295
PREVIOUS>9291
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:08 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 03, 1998 at 17:57:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Steve B on
February 03, 1998 at 16:42:53:
During the 1970's, when there was work on the Manhattan Bridge (and
there was), the northbound D train would sometimes operate through the
Montague St. tunnel, up the Nassau St. line to Essex St., then reverse
direction and take the unused "KK" tracks to B'way-Laffayette, and
resume its normal route from there. Oddly, I think the southbound D's
continued to run on the Bridge, and the B trains were diverted to the
Broadway side of the Bridge, ending at 57 St./7 Av. instead of 57
St./6 Av. The result was to eliminate 3/4 of the 6th Ave.-bound bridge
traffic.
Obviously, they can't run regular service that requires reversing
direction like that. If the KK tracks could be turned around to point
the other way (or a similar connection built that would do that), then
trains could run in both directions on the Nassau/Christie route. I
originally thought that making the connection just south/west of Essex
St. would make sense, but a look at a street map made me think that
making the connection at Canal St. would be easier. Was I wrong? At
any rate, the two (possible) connection sites are a good distance
apart from each other, so the KK tracks would not be connected to the
trackways that ran from the Manhattan Bridge to Nassau St.--one or the
other site would be used to make a connection.
Larry Littlefield's plan for two connections to the Rutgers St. tunnel
would surely be a better plan if it could be funded, but I thought the
Nassau St. connection would be cheaper and therefore perhaps easier to
get built.
Finally, here is one more proposal, perhaps somewhat outlandish but
who knows: since the problem with the Manhattan Bridge is torsion due
to unbalanced loads on the two sides, why not create *balanced* loads
by running the trains in pairs? Each D train on the north-side tracks
would be paired with an N train on the south side, and each B train on
the north side would be paired with a Q train (running via Broadway)
on the south side. Trains would be scheduled to arrive at the Bridge
portals at the same time, and would wait a minute or two there if
necessary for the slower of the two to catch up. Then the trains would
pace each other across the bridge, producing a balanced load that
wouldn't harm the structure.
I'm sure there would be occasional delays that would sometimes prevent
trains from meeting their partners, but if the trains successfully
paired up, say, 80% of the time, then about 80% of the torsion damage
could be eliminated, right? Each pair of trains involves, on the
Brooklyn end, one Brighton line train and one 4th Ave. train, that
would run through DeKalb Ave. on the bypass tracks, thus there
shouldn't be any conflicts involving trains merging.
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PREVIOUS>9288
POSTER>Peter Dougherty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway track maps
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:10 1998
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Posted by Peter Dougherty on February 03, 1998 at 18:40:15:
In Reply to: [8]Subway track maps posted by Dr testa on February 03,
1998 at 15:49:18:
The original post read: "Does anybody know where" with the title
"Track Maps."
I publish a book of track maps of the New York City subway system, if
that's what you're after. I also have older colour track maps online
at http://www.nycsubway.org/maps
The online maps are not as up-to-date as the printed version, and the
printed version has lots of other info (like track numbers) that isn't
available online.
If you'd like more info on the book, please see my web page:
www.quuxuum.org/pjd/trk-book.html
or e-mail me (pjd@ilap.com). I'll be glad to help out however I can.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
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NEXT>9299
PREVIOUS>9293
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:12 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 03, 1998 at 19:05:39:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 03, 1998 at 17:17:20:
While I'mn concerned about the "disaster scenario," one shouldn't
forget the diminshed service that exists right now as a result of just
two of the tracks being out. Occasionally, I ride that way just to
check it out. The "official" train capacity per hour of track is 25,
and both the Montigue Tunnel and the open Manhattan Bridge tracks are
at capacity. But with immigrants (non-drivers, with jobs) replacing
the elderly and welfare recipients in Bensonhurst and Flatbush, the
train are jammed -- especially the Brighton, which has 19 trains per
hour but once had more. Imagine cutting the number of trains on the B,
D, Q, N, R, and M from 50 to 25!
For those proposing running additional trains through the Montigue
tunnel remember this -- the maximum number of trains which can stop at
DeKalb, Lawrence, and Boro Hall is 25 -- and there are 26 crawling
through this area right now! To run more trains through the tunnel,
additional tracks would have to merge in beyond Boro Hall (there is
already a flying junction at the other end).
Ridership is rising, but there is no way to add trains on these lines.
The only Brooklyn tranfer to the IND division, where trains could be
added, is at 4th Avenue and 9th Street, and it involves 70 plus steps
and several corridors -- a time killer.
Moreover, the N train now crawls through DeKalb, Lawrence, and Boro
Hall, before going local up the Broadway Line. With three line (R, M,
N) on those tracks, the trains crawl. The Sea Beach was once an
express. As for the R, the TA loses untold riders (and Bay Ridge and
Sunst Park lose untold residents) since it crawls to Midtown in an
hour -- not including the walk to the train, the walk from the train,
and the wait for the train. With the southern tracks in operation,
both the N and the R could run express -- more frequent M service
could allow a transfer for Lower Manhattan.
I know no one cares about the future, but what about the present? Yet
no one is talking about this. Among the proposals in the press are a)
replacing the Gowanus Expressway with a tunnel for $9 billion b)
building a single track rail freight tunnel for $3 billion c) building
a new Yankee Stadium for $2 billion and a new Shea Stadium for $1
billion.
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NEXT>9309
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Tom Smith
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Broad Street Line In Philadelphia
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:14 1998
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Posted by Tom Smith on February 03, 1998 at 19:37:29:
Could somebody please tell me how far the Olney station on the Broad
St.
line is from the campus of LaSalle University.
I would really appreciate this info.
Thanks
\
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Number of Riders
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:16 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 03, 1998 at 19:45:31:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Mike
Rothenberg on February 03, 1998 at 08:29:46:
According the 1990 census of population, journey to work file, the
number of workers in neighborhoods served the the old BMT southern
division (B, D, F, N, M, Q, R) who reported using the subway to get to
work was 189,219, about 46 percent of all workers in these areas.
Riders from these areas accounted for about one in six city residents
using the subway to get to work.
This is the relevent comparison. Although the B, D, and Q are going
over the bridge now, it is unlikely that these would be the lines
terminated if the bridge were lost. In that case, to quote the Russian
proverb, the shortage would be divided among the peasants. Service to
Manhattan would be cut on all lines save the F, and those on trains
terminating in Downtown Brooklyn would pack on to other lines -- until
enough people moved out of Brooklyn to restore equalibrium.
Remember, 40 percent of the income earned by Brooklyn residents is
earned in Manhattan, and 80 percent of commuters from Brooklyn to
Manhattan use the subway. When these 40 percent spend their money on
local services, that generates the other 60 percent. For every
Manhattan commuter who disappears, a job in Brooklyn also disappears.
The rest of Brooklyn's economy is welfare-based, and we surely do not
need more of that.
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NEXT>9308
PREVIOUS>9285
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:19 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 03, 1998 at 21:36:29:
In Reply to: [7]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Steve B on February 03, 1998 at 15:20:01:
-"Hey lady, I could do this job and hump that broad at the same time
without missin' a stroke!"
-"Listen you little prick! 20 bucks wouldn't buy you a goodnight
kiss!"
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NEXT>9306
PREVIOUS>9295
POSTER>Dan Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:21 1998
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Posted by Dan Valles on February 03, 1998 at 21:38:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 03, 1998 at 17:57:08:
From one "Dan" to another:
It is an excellent idea, but only in the short term... If I could use
a sports analogy to describe the subway system, I would say that what
expansion is doing to sports now (which is diluting talent), expansion
in the 1910s and 20s probably diluted the quality of the structures
and tunnels built... Now, obviously, the technology today did not
exist then, but they should have invested in building tunnels
underneath the East River rather than the two bridges (Williamsburg
and Manhattan)... Subway trains are heavy, SO why are you going to
build a bridge that would require a hell of a lot more maintaing than
a tunnel would (I could be wrong)...
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NEXT>9301
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>this just in, derailment in wakefield yard
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:23 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:02:14:
a train has derailed and hit a building in the wakefield yard and is
on fire with nyct workers possibly trapped inside.. this was just in
to the WB11 news.. more details to come..
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9300
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: this just in, derailment in wakefield yard
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:25 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:18:17:
In Reply to: [8]this just in, derailment in wakefield yard posted by
Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:02:14:
two trains heading into the wakefield yard collided on an elevated
section of track sending a car (or more) of one of the trains off the
side of the el landing on some warehouse. a few cars are on fire, and
as far as now (thank god) there are no fatalities.. this report was @
10:20 on channel 11. was it a signalling problem, or switch problem?
well find out.. until then pray for the lives of any people who may
have been hurt.
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NEXT>9303
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:27 1998
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Posted by Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:45:26:
In Reply to: [8]Re: this just in, derailment in wakefield yard posted
by Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:18:17:
this report @ 10:40 on channel 11.. one car fell onto a tractor
trailer and a second car fell onto an autobody shop which is in danger
of collapsing which would cause more cars to fall off of the El.
theyre working on supporting that structure so it does not collapse.
right now there is no service north of 180th st. on the 2 and the 5
which terminates @ neried ave. the two trains that collided are most
probably a 2 train and a 5 train, as i saw a red train (leading car
#9153 r-33) and then a train of r-62's involved. there were no
passengers on either train and both motormen are alive.
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NEXT>9313
PREVIOUS>9302
POSTER>faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:29 1998
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Posted by faxman on February 03, 1998 at 23:02:46:
In Reply to: [7]Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO posted by
Lefty on February 03, 1998 at 22:45:26:
new at 11 no service on two train at 180 st
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NEXT>9331
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poustka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>help me....
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:31 1998
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Posted by Marek Poustka on February 04, 1998 at 02:37:03:
I find a good friend.My hobby is railway,subway system.
I live in Czech Republic.
my adress:
Marek Poustka
P.O.Box 78
Strakonice 1
38601
Czech rep.
e-mail: poustka@hotmail.com
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NEXT>9310
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines (Correction)
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:34 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 04, 1998 at 08:24:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 03, 1998 at 17:25:49:
SEPTA does publish internal timetables for each line which show all
blocks (runs) on the line, pull-in & pull-out times from each
terminal, etc. for employee use. They are usually just photocopied for
distribution. They are a little cryptic to one not familiar with the
route in question.
Thanks to Dan Lawrence for his information on this!
Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9318
PREVIOUS>9299
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:36 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 04, 1998 at 08:55:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 03, 1998 at 19:05:39:
I'm glad this topic thread that I started has produced such thoughtful
and creative posts. What seems to have developed, in summary, is the
idea of using some existing East River tunnels that apprently are not
at capacity, with appropriate connections and the use of unused or
underused facilities (e.g., City Hall Station, Christie/Nassau
connection) to develop viable alternative service. Neighborhoods that
would be most impacted by service cut-backs are growing with
commuters, due to working-age immigrants replacing non-working
retirees or welfare recipients. Ballparks and other facilities are
being planned that cost billions of dollars, while no (monetary)
attention or priority is given to Manhattan Bridge alternatives. Some
concepts to allow train trave on the bridge have been advanced, yet
with $500 million already spent on the bridge repair, it seems that
the bridge is not in the long-range picture for train travel, and
there's been no apparent interest in transit agency management to use
"creative
operations" (if that will reduce the structural "insults" produced by
the trains, or "creative construction" (e.g., moving train tracks to
the center of the bridge) if that also will eliminate the problem.
I'd like your input on the following because maybe it can be used to
locate money to fund the needed alternatives: Over the past few years,
I recall reading about major reconstruction, or replacement, of one or
more subway/el lines in both Chicago and Philadelphia. If my memory is
correct, then does anyone know how these were funded? My first guess
is that there were large amounts of federal tax dollars spent, sought
and obtained from the appropriate federal transit agency. The question
is: has the MTA sought any federal funding for Manhattan Bridge
alternatives? If not, we can ask "why not?" A figure nearly was
provided by a poster that nearly 200,000 riders a day derive from the
southern Brooklyn area served by the impacted lines (B, D, F, M, N, Q,
R). Was ridership on the Chicago and Philadelphia lines
repaired/replaced reach that level? If not, then funding for Manhattan
Bridge alternatives should be a higher priority and the MTA should
seek it.
Here's what I propose: Another poster (is that the right term?) gave a
web site from which e-mails can be sent to the Mayor and Governor. He
noted that with upstate New York suffering, economically, the Governor
might seek to gain votes in New York City and suggested that a way he
could do this would be to attend to their needs. One way this could be
done would be to ask him (and the Mayor and anyone else who has an
important transit role) to support seeking and applying funds to build
appropriate bridge alternatives, as posted here. Maybe the
construction of an entirely new 2 (or four?) track tunnel to replace
the Bridge tracks should also be included. Have there been any
estimates made of the cost for a tunnel replacement that can lead to
both the Vanal St./Broadway, and ChrisiteSt./6th Ave. tracks? Where
are the Gowanus Expressway $$billions coming from?
Here's the web site provided, If I have it right: www.newsradio88.com
. Many people are contributing to this thread. We should continue to
do this, and also contact our political and transit leaders so they
know they need to attend to the situation - NOW.
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NEXT>9334
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>GarfieldA
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:38 1998
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Posted by GarfieldA on February 04, 1998 at 08:58:45:
After viewing the pictures in the news, without a doubt, speed must
have been a factor in this collision. The car that was dangling off
the elevated structure had it's wheel axels removed and left on the
track bed up above. Basically the train cars were "jackknifed" off the
"el" after the collision. The senior vice president for the TA said
that moterman are given permission to bypass a red signal ONLY by the
crews at the switching tower and ONLY and very slow speeds. If indeed
this was the case, the motorman of the "redbird" train must have been
doing a higher than normal speed when entering or leaving the yard.
The Williamsburg bridge train collision certainly did not leave none
of train cars jackknifed or leaning against an object. Speed in my
opinion was a definite factor here.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9298
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham) 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:40 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 04, 1998 at 09:20:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Taking of Bloor - Danforth (oops! Pelham)
1-2-3 posted by Bootsy on February 03, 1998 at 21:36:29:
"I trust Mr. Brown; I do not trust Mr. Gray. I think Mr. Gray is an
enormous, arrogant pain in the ass who might turn out to be trouble. I
also think he is mad. Why do you think they threw him out of the
Mafia?"
"I'm busy, Zach, OK?" Jerry Stiller, reading a newspaper with the
directors of the tokyo subway looking on.
"I hope you're memorizing all this junk; I'm going to ask questions
later. Don't worry about a thing; they don't understand a word of
English. This way, dummies, step right this way, dummies." Matthau,
while guiding the directors of the Tokyo subway, assumes they don't
speak English (it turns out they do - oops!).
"Look, I don't work for you guys anymore; you don't get #$#@% from
me."
"I hope he washes his hands before he opens the door."
"No, they're still down there. If the street collapsed, we'd land
right on top of them."
"They're on their way over. But you're the man in charge. The buck
stops with you."
"Oh, $%#^."
"God help us."
"All right, Al, you've heard from the three wise men. Now what do you
say?"
"I didn't know these things went backwards."
"Now you know."
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NEXT>9326
PREVIOUS>9296
POSTER>Andrew Byler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Broad Street Line In Philadelphia
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:41 1998
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Posted by Andrew Byler on February 04, 1998 at 09:44:00:
In Reply to: [8]Broad Street Line In Philadelphia posted by Tom Smith
on February 03, 1998 at 19:37:29:
Its about three blocks from the edge of campus, on Olney Ave.
Andy
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NEXT>9327
PREVIOUS>9305
POSTER>Andrew Byler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines (Correction)
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:44 1998
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Posted by Andrew Byler on February 04, 1998 at 09:46:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines (Correction) posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 04, 1998 at
08:24:54:
There are also internal timetables like other ones which contain track
speeds, operating rules, signal locations, etc. for both of these
lines. If you know someone at Septa, you might be able to get a hold
of one. Otherwise, they are not available.
Andy
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Will
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Broad Street Line/LaSalle University
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:46 1998
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Posted by Will on February 04, 1998 at 09:51:37:
In Reply to: [7]Broad Street Line In Philadelphia posted by Tom Smith
on February 03, 1998 at 19:37:29:
LaSalle is easy walking distance (about a third of a mile - no more)
from the Olney Station of the BSS. When you exit the station, walk
WEST on Olney Avenue (which is actually called "Campus Boulevard"
until 20th Street). The street signs may still say Olney Avenue. You
will pass both Girls' High School and Central High School and then the
campus will be on your left. Good luck.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9282
POSTER>Gerry O'Regan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: A Boston Question
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:48 1998
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Posted by Gerry O'Regan on February 04, 1998 at 10:46:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: A Boston Question posted by Frank Gatazka on
February 03, 1998 at 13:44:00:
The building fronts on a park, one of a pair facing each other accross
Washington St. This made the shot possible since elsewhere in the
South End, where similar buildings abound, streets are narrow, and a
panoramic view of a facade and the el would have been impossible.
Alas, Washington is now just another street which is far too wide for
the traffic it carries. Public transportation has moved 4-1/2 blocks
west, leaving Washington St. with a series of disjoint bus lines, and
drawing additional traffic from the once important Tremont St.
corridor (former Egleston-North Station car line) to the point where
proposed bus service cuts will hasten the downward spiral. How the
mighty have fallen!
Gerry
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NEXT>9343
PREVIOUS>9303
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:50 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 04, 1998 at 11:01:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO posted by
faxman on February 03, 1998 at 23:02:46:
As of about 7am this morning, service was restored on the 2 line
between 241st and Gun Hill Road, with some delays expected. The
motorman of the redbird train was the only injury, fortunately, not
life threatening. The collision shop onto which some of the IRT cars
landed is likely to be condemned by the NYC building department and
will have to be demolished, per an interview with Mayor Guiliani this
morning. While the police at the scene say that the motorman was
speeding through that area, NYC transit is saying that they don't know
the cause of the crash and are investigating.
For WNSO news, this is Mark Feinman reporting :)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway track maps book
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:52 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 04, 1998 at 11:04:39:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Subway track maps posted by Peter Dougherty on
February 03, 1998 at 18:40:15:
... and both the book and the on-line maps are exceptionally well
done....
--Mark
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NEXT>9330
PREVIOUS>9272
POSTER>Gerry O'Regan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:54 1998
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Posted by Gerry O'Regan on February 04, 1998 at 11:06:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 02, 1998 at 17:29:31:
Yes, and if I recall the book correctly they did put the train onto
the express tracks to get it away from the local platforms...
Gerry
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NEXT>9317
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>John
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>St. George
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:56 1998
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Posted by John on February 04, 1998 at 11:14:12:
WILL employees of SIRR get suspecious if they see me walking on the
tracks
at St. George?
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NEXT>9336
PREVIOUS>9316
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: St. George
DATE>Feb 7 16:47:59 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 04, 1998 at 12:33:16:
In Reply to: [7]St. George posted by John on February 04, 1998 at
11:14:12:
Get hold of a beat up hardhat, and carry a clipboard. Then behave in a
safe manner, and act like you belong there. You will not be
challenged. The hardhat usually does the trick, but the clipboard is
the killer, because it reminds anyone who might make a fuss that your
first response might be "What's YOUR name?", and the average employee
doesn't want to chance pissing anyone off.
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NEXT>9322
PREVIOUS>9306
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:00 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 04, 1998 at 12:46:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Yoon Jae
Lee on February 03, 1998 at 00:21:10:
No new tunnels are proposed. The Cranberry St. and Rutgers St. tunnels
are the existing ex-IND tunnels which have stops at High St. and York
St., respectively, in Brooklyn. What is being considered are changes
to these tunnels approaches so that trains still using the Manhattan
Bridge will be able to cross the East River if the Manhattan Bridge
has to be closed, a real possibility if THEY can't agree on who should
pay for repairs.
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NEXT>9410
PREVIOUS>9261
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:02 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 04, 1998 at 13:26:18:
In Reply to: [7]Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 02, 1998 at 22:12:03:
What a cooincidence! I was going to bring up the Brooklyn Diocese
story myself as an example of why a political bond between Brooklyn
and the rest of Long Island makes sense. Maybe the split would not
have occurred if Brooklyn had not joined New York; maybe Brooklyn
could have become the Archdiocese. All of my speculations are based on
what would have been different had the union not been accomplished. It
obviously would not work in today's situation where Brooklyn
"developed" into low cost housing stock.
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NEXT>9323
PREVIOUS>9277
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:04 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 04, 1998 at 13:36:37:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by David Pirmann on
February 03, 1998 at 11:07:19:
Let me admit to being part of this problem in that I am apparently too
ignorant to make good use of the archived material. When I go into the
archives, I can't find what I am looking for because the only dates I
seem to see are the dates when it was archived, not the date
originally posted. There have been many helpful how-to posts on links
and such, can anyone get me pointed in the right direction in using
archived material?
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NEXT>9425
PREVIOUS>9259
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Linden Shops
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:07 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
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LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by Peter Rosa on February 04, 1998 at 14:34:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Linden Shops posted by Steve on February 02, 1998
at 22:50:14:
I can't quite follow this. With the Williamsburg Bridge out of
service, I don't see how the J/M/Z trains on the Brooklyn side will
have any access to the rest of the system - yes, they can get to the L
line, but that won't do much good seeing as how the L doesn't have any
track connections to other lines in Manhattan. They can't be sent to
Coney Island for maintenance either. So what difference does the
Linden Shop make? Will it be able to handle work that's beyond the
capability of the ENY shop?
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NEXT>9333
PREVIOUS>9318
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:09 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Steve B on February 04, 1998 at 14:48:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 03, 1998 at 17:17:20:
It's too bad they didn't put the subway tracks in the center of the
bridge in the first place the way they did on the Williamsburg Bridge.
I read somewhere that the Manhattan Bridge was designed to flex a
certain amount when a subway train crossed it; moreover, two trains
crossing it from opposite directions and from opposite sides at the
same time will balance things out. I'm sure the engineers who designed
it didn't realize that the north side tracks would see much more
service than the south side tracks. Here's another thought: how about
tying the two tracks from Chambers St which were severed from the
bridge when the Chrystie St. connection opened with the tracks leading
from the south side to Canal St-Broadway? If nothing else, it would
bring back Broadway express service. Service disruption would be next
to none, since you're talking about two sets of tracks which currently
aren't being used.
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NEXT>9428
PREVIOUS>9320
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:11 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by David Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 15:08:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 04, 1998 at 13:36:37:
Unfortunately since the archived posts are put into the archives in a
batch, the date is the date of archive. Admittedly a drawback. If the
whole system ran on NNTP then that wouldn't be a problem. I don't
think I can forge the date header but I can try to do that in the
future.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9095
POSTER>jack
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA)
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:12 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by jack on February 04, 1998 at 15:38:45:
In Reply to: [7]Re: WHAT A SHAME, BSS( PHILA) posted by Timothy Speer
on January 30, 1998 at 21:17:38:
THANKS TIM. YOU SMART ASS.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9184
POSTER>JACK
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame!
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:14 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
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Posted by JACK on February 04, 1998 at 15:51:51:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Really Is A Shame! posted by Bootsy on
February 01, 1998 at 01:33:42:
Except for Tim's little correction, I thank you for the responses. I
guess I'll try to be a little more respectful of the caps lock thing(
it's a habit) but don't look for a miracle. Old habits die hard. In
relation to the SEPTA thing, I ride the el every morning and as Phil(
can I call you that?) said, you can feel the heat as they say whenever
the train stops. Have you ever sat by the window side? You will notice
the equivalent of a radiator along the floor. DON'T SIT BY THAT! I
almost set my pants on fire once because that thing can get so hot!
And as for the third rail thing I agree with you all. But it has been
my experience that most people think that the third rail is actually
the rails the train runs on! So to warn them of the dangers of the
third rail we would first have to show them what it is. SEPTA had
better do a little something with those quick. But in thier defense, i
think that they try to warn you of the third rail on the Route 100
with the silver cover.Oh well. Cheerio.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9309
POSTER>steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Broad Street Line In Philadelphia
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:16 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by steve on February 04, 1998 at 15:56:36:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Broad Street Line In Philadelphia posted by Andrew
Byler on February 04, 1998 at 09:44:00:
I SHOULD KNOW THIS SINCE I ATTEND CENTRAL WHICH IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE
WAY FROM LaSALLE. GET OFF THE SUBWAY AT OLNEY AND "GO WEST, YOUNG MAN"
UNTIL YOU HIT CENTRAL. IT'S TOO BIG TOO MISS AND LaSALLE IS RIGHT TO
THE LEFT. ACTUALLY ON THE LEFT.
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NEXT>9350
PREVIOUS>9310
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines (Correction)
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:17 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by STEVE on February 04, 1998 at 16:02:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines (Correction) posted by Andrew Byler on February 04, 1998 at
09:46:21:
I AM SO GLAD THAT AT LAST US FOLK FROM THE PHILADELPHIA AREA ARE
CATCHING ON TO THIS SITE! I KNOW I WILL SOUND LIKE A FANATIC BUT OUR
SUBWAY SYSTEM REALLY GETS A BAD RAP AND I THINK THAT IF YOU RIDE THEM
FOR 22 YEARS AS I HAVE( IT TAKES THAT LONG) YOU WILL LEARN TO TOLERATE
THEM. HOWEVER, THERE IS ONE THING I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE SUBWAY. AT
15th STREET ON THE EL, THE ANNOUNCER(WHO IS USUALLY ON THE EASTBOUND
PLATFORM BY THE ENTRANCE TO THE BSS) HAS THE MOST IRRITATING,
MONOTONOUS VOICE. " STEP UP.......STEP IN...AAAAAAAAND WATCH THE DOORS
PLEASE. WATCH THE DOORS." HE TALKS AS IF WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO BOARD A
SUBWAY!
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NEXT>9364
PREVIOUS>9286
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:19 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by STEVE on February 04, 1998 at 16:12:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
Mike Klufas on February 02, 1998 at 22:53:03:
HOW CAN YOU GUYS NOT REMEMBER THIS????????!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS POSSIBLY
THE WORST ACCIDENT IN SEPTA HISTORY! IT WAS ABOUT APRIL 1990, BUT IT
WAS 1990!
THE TRAIN WAS CROSSING THE SWITCH JUST BEFORE 30th STREET GOING
EASTBOUND AND THE TRACTION MOTOR CAME OFF. SIX PEOPLE DIED.
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NEXT>9491
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>148 and Lenox Station
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:21 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 04, 1998 at 16:23:23:
Why was this station built when the previous terminal is just 3 blocks
away at 145 and Lenox. If for the yeard, couldn't trains just roll
past the station like at New Lots Station in Brooklyn
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NEXT>9373
PREVIOUS>9315
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:23 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKURL>
Posted by subway-buff on February 04, 1998 at 16:44:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Steve on February 02, 1998
at 00:01:31:
Notice also the strange destination signs. After the 6 there was
"Pelham local.
On the current style signs the number is double high and the other
side shows the North and South Destinations.
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NEXT>9332
PREVIOUS>9304
POSTER>ALEX ROCCO
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me....
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:26 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKNAME>
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Posted by ALEX ROCCO on February 04, 1998 at 16:53:12:
In Reply to: [7]help me.... posted by Marek Poustka on February 04,
1998 at 02:37:03:
HELLO MAREK. MY NAME IS ALEX. I HOPE THAT WE CAN LEARN FROM EACH
OTHER. WHAT DO YOU CALL SUBWAYS IN THE CZECH REPUBLIC? MY BEST FRIEND
HAS CZECH ROOTS. I WILL TELL YOU ABOUT SUBWAYS IN NEW YORK CITY. THERE
ARE 468 STATIONS ON THE SYSTEM AND ABOUT 15 ABANDONED ONES. THERE ARE
321 ROUTE MILES. I DON'T KNOW THE METRIC CONVERSION BUT I THINK THAT
IT IS 453 KILOMETERS. DOES THAT HELP? THE MAIN STEMS ARE IN THE
BOUROUGH OF MANHATTAN, WHICH IS THE CENTER OF THE CITY. THESE ARE THE
ROUTES BY NAME AND COLOR AND DESTINATION( IF I CAN REMEMBER):
BLUE
A-207 STREET TO FAR ROCKAWAY OR ROCKAWAY PARK OR ROCKAWAY PARKWAY
C-EUCLID AVENUE TO 168 STREET
E-WORLD TRADE CENTER TO JAMAICA CENTER
H-BROAD CHANNEL TO ROCKAWAY PARK( IF YOU GET A NYC SUBWAY MAP IT MIGHT
SAY "S")
RED
1-SOUTH FERRY TO 242 STREET
2-241 STREET TO FLATBUSH AVENUE
3-NEW LOTS AVENUE TO LENOX TERMINAL
9-SOUTH FERRY TO 242 STREET
ORANGE
B-CONEY ISLAND TO 21 STREET OR 168 STREET
D-CONEY ISLAND TO BEDFORD PARK BOULEVARD(OR STREET)
F-CONEY ISLAND TO 179 STREET
Q-BRIGHTON BEACH TO 21 STREET
GREEN
4-UTICA AVENUE TO WOODLAWN
5-FLATBUSH AVENUE TO WAKEFIELD
6-BROOKLYN BRIDGE TO PELHAM BAY PARK
BROWN
J-JAMAICA CENTER TO BROAD STREET
M-METROPOLITAN AVENUE TO BAY PARKWAY
Z-JAMAICA CENTER TO BROAD STREET
YELLOW
N-DITMARS BLVD TO CONEY ISLAND
R-95 STREET TO 71 AVE
GRAY
L-8 AVENUE TO ROCKAWAY PARKWAY
LIGHT GREEN
G-SMTIH/ 9 STREETS TO 71 AVE
BLACK
GRAND CENTRAL SHUTTLE TO TIMES SQUARE
FRANKLIN AVENUE TO PROSPECT PARK
PURPLE
7-TIMES SQUARE TO MAIN STREET
THAT IS ALL THE SUBWAY LINES IN NEW YORK'S TRANSIT SYSTEM. I HOPE YOU
CAN UNDERSTAND THIS. I TRIED TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE. HOPE YOUR
ENGLISH IS GOOD. I AM AN ENGLISH MAJOR. I CAN HELP. BYE MAREK.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9331
POSTER>JAMES
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me....
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:28 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
IMAGE>
LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by JAMES on February 04, 1998 at 16:56:28:
In Reply to: [7]help me.... posted by Marek Poustka on February 04,
1998 at 02:37:03:
HELLO MAREK. I HOPE YOU WILL TRY TO LEARN MORE ABOUT SUBWAYS IN THE
GREAT CITIES OF THE WORLD. IF YOU EVER GET THE CHANCE, SWING BY
AMERICA. WE'D LOVE TO MEET YOU.
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NEXT>9335
PREVIOUS>9322
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:30 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by Steve B on February 04, 1998 at 16:59:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Gary
Jacobi on February 04, 1998 at 12:46:34:
The trick here would be tying in the tunnel connections to DeKalb
Ave., especially the Rutgers St. tunnel. There are unused tunnels in
the DeKalb Ave vicinity, but they face the opposite direction; they
were designed to connect with the Fulton St. El., had it been upgraded
to handle steel subway trains.
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NEXT>9337
PREVIOUS>9307
POSTER>THE EXPRESS TRAIN
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:32 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
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Posted by THE EXPRESS TRAIN on February 04, 1998 at 17:08:23:
In Reply to: [8]2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by GarfieldA on
February 04, 1998 at 08:58:45:
Gee. The el derailed. Thats why I say eliminate all elevated trains
and use only subways! No open cut. No surface. No aqueducts and no
els!
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NEXT>9358
PREVIOUS>9333
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:33 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 04, 1998 at 17:27:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 03, 1998 at 17:57:08:
Rerouting F trains to the Cranberry St. tunnel would be very simple,
since connections already exist on both sides (south of W. 4th St and
North of Jay St.), if they wanted to use the Rutgers St. tunnel for
B,D and perhaps Q service, if they keep the Q along 6th Ave.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9317
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: St. George
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:36 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 04, 1998 at 17:29:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: St. George posted by Gary Jacobi on February 04,
1998 at 12:33:16:
What you need to do is access the private parking lot next to the
terminal, the former railyard. Access is unrestricded from there.
-Hank
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NEXT>9338
PREVIOUS>9334
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:38 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by Adam on February 04, 1998 at 18:51:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by THE EXPRESS
TRAIN on February 04, 1998 at 17:08:23:
I don't see why this one isolated incident should lead to your
denunciation of all elevated trains. There are a lot of trains moving
in and out of a yard and this is probably a result of all the activity
there. Let's just be glad that this didn't happen in a populated area
and that there were no fatalities. I was wondering if there have ever
been any incidents like this in the past where an train has fallen off
an elevated track?
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NEXT>9347
PREVIOUS>9337
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:41 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 04, 1998 at 19:11:56:
In Reply to: [8]2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by GarfieldA on
February 04, 1998 at 08:58:45:
I just returned from the scene of the incident. Since the cause is
under investigation, I will not comment on a likely cause. I will say,
however, that after 2 decades it still amazes me how well we respond
to this type of incident. Granted, we were lucky that a trailor loaded
with mattresses broke the fall of one car thereby preventing others
from being pulled off of the structure. That not withstanding, as of
4:30 PM all but one car (the one on top of the auto repair shop) were
rerailed and were being moved back into the yard. The crane was being
positioned to lift that one and it too will be re-railed in a very
short time. Service on the #2 line is completely restored, too. It is
unfortunate that we have incidents like this one but we always seem to
rise to the occassion.
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NEXT>9399
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dr testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Security in Septa's Subway system
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:43 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Dr testa on February 04, 1998 at 19:40:10:
Why is Septa wasting money installing camera's instead of hiring more
police officers. Cameras don't prevent murders and muggins from
happening. Maybe with the presence of more police officers our subways
would be safer to ride at night. I don't know about you other Septa
riders but cameras don't make feel safe!
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NEXT>9454
PREVIOUS>9265
POSTER>Kenny from CT
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:44 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKNAME>
LINKURL>
Posted by Kenny from CT on February 04, 1998 at 20:12:24:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Chris Gonsalves--MacDill
AFB, Fl on February 03, 1998 at 00:55:42:
This book is availiable at the Transit Museum in Brooklyn, Grand
Central Station and Penn Station.
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NEXT>9355
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lefty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:46 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Lefty on February 04, 1998 at 20:33:34:
why does this train exist at all? is it to reduce the confusion of the
different destinations of the B train? if so why does the new map says
its only until spring 1999.. the tracks that go from 57th st through
central park were not used before from revenue service, what were they
used for?
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NEXT>9349
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>GAR
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:48 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by GAR on February 04, 1998 at 20:44:13:
Read a piece in "First and Fastest" re: salt buildup on the 3rd rail
shoes causing shorts on North Shore (Chicago) trains running on the
el. This would cause motors to burn out and delays ect. I was
wondering if this is still a problem on transit systems with grade
crossings or rail lines with 3rd rail
like MN?
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NEXT>9344
PREVIOUS>9313
POSTER>faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:50 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
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LINKURL>
Posted by faxman on February 04, 1998 at 21:21:24:
In Reply to: [7]Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO posted by
Mark S Feinman on February 04, 1998 at 11:01:05:
heard on news the motorman of the red birds "blacked out" Before
hitting the other train (fell asleep?)
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NEXT>9345
PREVIOUS>9343
POSTER>faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:54 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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LINKURL>
Posted by faxman on February 04, 1998 at 21:21:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO posted by
Mark S Feinman on February 04, 1998 at 11:01:05:
heard on news the motorman of the red birds "blacked out" Before
hitting the other train (fell asleep?)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9344
POSTER>InTheKnow
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:57 1998
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Posted by InTheKnow on February 04, 1998 at 22:18:29:
In Reply to: [7]Re: derailment in wakefield yard, MORE INFO posted by
faxman on February 04, 1998 at 21:21:48:
The motorman didn't know he blacked out until it was 'suggested' to
him that he did. TWU reps have a tremendous catalog of pat excuses for
when their members screw up.
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NEXT>9360
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Anthony Cabrera Mondesire
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>"Track" Fence Dividers-> #2 Line bet BxPk E ->Burke Ave
DATE>Feb 7 16:48:59 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Anthony Cabrera Mondesire on February 04, 1998 at
It was sad to see that derailment on my Williamsbridge /Wakefield
childhood line. Anyway, 'd like to know what the "track fence
dividers" are on this section north of the "east" and south of Gun
Hill Rd that separate middle track from the "revenue" tracks. Any
ideas or facts? Is NYCT planning to store off peak trains consists
there and want a "hermetically sealed" section of road? ;-)> !!
Anyway, any comments or insight would be welcome.
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NEXT>9348
PREVIOUS>9338
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:49:03 1998
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LINKURL>
Posted by David Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 23:10:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Adam on
February 04, 1998 at 18:51:32:
Yes but not recently! Stan Fischler's new book has a bunch of pictures
on page 114-117 of El accidents including some where the cars fell off
the sides.
1) Sept 7 1905, 9th Av El @ 53rd St. 12 dead, 42 injured, 2 cars fell
off the El.
2) June 1923, 5th Av El (Brooklyn) nr. Atlantic Av. No details in the
book.
I don't know of any more recent.
-Dave
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NEXT>9356
PREVIOUS>9347
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 7 16:49:07 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 04, 1998 at 23:29:12:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by David
Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 23:10:22:
I have seen pictures of the 1979 incident in Chicago. I think what
happended there was after two trains colided the motor man reapplied
power causing the middle cars to be forced up and off the track. Does
anyone have more info about this incident?
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NEXT>9388
PREVIOUS>9342
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 7 16:49:11 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 04, 1998 at 23:35:30:
In Reply to: [8]Salt & Third Rail posted by GAR on February 04, 1998
at 20:44:13:
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Supposedly, underrunning (Metro
North style) third rail is supposed to be better in ice/snow, but
during the last major storm, shoes were getting chewed up like crazy.
I know the M-3s and I think the 4 and 6s, have their traction motor
air intakes up higher to prevent snow/ice/salt ingestion. Also, Metro
North was wrapping the motors on older cars with some sort of fabric
covering, which helped too. Ice doesn't seem to screw up the Nev Haven
line's overheead though, but boy does it make sparks fly!!! (I took
the train home the friday of that big ice storm up here - one train in
the yard looked like it had huge flashbulbs going off above it when it
moved!). The problem is when the switchover to DC happens. The
pantagraph refuses to fold up, and they have to stop, get out, jump on
them, lock them, etc. Supposedly on bad days they have a crew at Mount
Vernon to do this... Of course sometimes it won't pop up either...
BTW, I've heard that the first 800 or so feet of wire is a dead line,
anyone know it this is true??
Big problems are still motors shorting out, although I've heard the
ACMUs also don't like the cold weather.
The Long Island RR also has problems in the winter, I still have the
pic of the one train in a ditch by Great Neck...
Heck..the LIRR has problems year round...
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NEXT>9406
PREVIOUS>9327
POSTER>AdamZ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines (Correction)
DATE>Feb 7 16:49:18 1998
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Posted by AdamZ on February 04, 1998 at 23:39:10:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines (Correction) posted by Gary K on February 04, 1998 at 17:54:00:
On my second M-4 trip last week the announcer on the train came on the
in-train PA and in a more commanding voice said:
"step out... step down... now walk... {doors closing now} and there
was silence on the platform...........
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9250
POSTER>Joker
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
DATE>Feb 7 16:49:23 1998
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Posted by Joker on February 04, 1998 at 23:53:18:
In Reply to: [7]Re: North Shore on Staten Island! (virtual ROW walk)
posted by Hank Eisnestein on February 02, 1998 at 04:00:38:
What's the new construction that you mention? Is the Rail bridge over
the Arthur Kill being reopened, and is the new construction from the
bridge down towards the Con Ed plant in Travis? Or is the actual North
Shore Line itself being reconstructed? I remember in the late 70's the
line was still used for freight deliveries of newsprint to the Staten
Island Advance and scrap materials to Nassau Smelting. As kids we used
to climb up to the old Richmond Avenue Station (on the viaduct) until
they put a more secure door (with barbed wire) at the bottom of the
stairs. At that time the platforms were in pretty good shape. Too bad
no one's thinking about reopening the line, perhaps with a link over
the Arthur Kill Bridge to New Jersey commuter routes into Penn
Station...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>3rd rail orange
DATE> ::
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Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
The new third rails being installed in GCT (aluminum rails) are
painted with an orange neon paint, for warning. New third rails are
being installed in GCT on a lot of tracks. Not sure why, I guess the
old rails are falling apart and worn out. It is a low speed area, but I
guess they're investing in the future of the terminal.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Modeling 3rd rail
DATE> ::
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Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Okay, this doesn't deal directly with "real" subways and trains, but
anyone out there have any ideas how to model an HO third rail? I'm
trying to come up with a simple method that will allow easy installation
of a lot of third rail, that isn't a mile from the track! I've tried
several methods, but the rail keeps falling off, or the method is very
tedious and inconsistent. Any thoughts?
NEXT>9381
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Bill
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Do all el's have "4th" rail?
DATE>Feb 10 16:56:53 1998
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Posted by Bill on February 05, 1998 at 00:53:14:
I am referring to the track rail that I always used to see on tracks
going over bridges.
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NEXT>9362
PREVIOUS>9341
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:00 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 05, 1998 at 00:56:04:
In Reply to: [8]new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Lefty on February 04, 1998 at 20:33:34:
The new S train is in place only temporarily while the tracks are
replaced on that section where the shuttle is running. The shuttle
will originate from 57th St. on the N and R line and make use of that
little-used connection between that line and the B line to
Queensbridge. I have a feeling this will be very inconvenient for
riders, as the shuttle is running only once every 20 minutes. I also
think this is going to decrease the number of subway riders from
Roosevelt Island and encourage them to use alternate methods of
transportation like the Tram.
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NEXT>9357
PREVIOUS>9348
POSTER>Chris Gonsalves--MacDill AFB, Fl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:02 1998
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Posted by Chris Gonsalves--MacDill AFB, Fl on February 05, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Joe M on
February 04, 1998 at 23:29:12:
Try looking in the CTA website (Chcago Transit Authority)
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NEXT>9359
PREVIOUS>9356
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:04 1998
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Posted by Sammy on February 05, 1998 at 02:38:19:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Steve on
February 04, 1998 at 19:11:56:
Steve:
Yes you did rise to the occasion. Way to go.
The latest news is the motorperson suffered a dizzy spell. Get
real!!!!!
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NEXT>9380
PREVIOUS>9335
POSTER>Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:06 1998
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Posted by Ben-Zion Y. Cassouto on February 05, 1998 at 03:17:30:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Steve B on
February 04, 1998 at 16:59:20:
Do elaborate, Steve B., what tunnel provosions for the Fulton El are
there in that area???
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NEXT>9366
PREVIOUS>9357
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:08 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 05, 1998 at 05:50:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Sammy on
February 05, 1998 at 02:38:19:
What Steve was too modest to say is this: He works for the IND/BMT.
The wreck was on the IRT. It is the dedication of people like Steve
who put trains ahead of politics.
Dizzy spell- Haven't you ever got a ticket you did not deserve in your
opinion? train operator (Motorman/engineer/etc.) is just as human.
I have applied to work for transit and can vouch that the medical exam
is a thorough exam- and that was just for station agent! For a DUI it
is .10 or .08 for transit it is .02 so they are congizant of the extra
"dangers".
We appreciate your thoughts, but give Steve the credit he is due.
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NEXT>9409
PREVIOUS>9346
POSTER>Serafin jr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: "Track" Fence Dividers-> #2 Line bet BxPk E ->Burke Ave
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:10 1998
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Posted by Serafin jr on February 05, 1998 at 07:24:00:
In Reply to: [7]"Track" Fence Dividers-> #2 Line bet BxPk E ->Burke
Ave posted by Anthony Cabrera Mondesire on February 04, 1998 at
22:59:47:
There are installing new signals. The Fence is there so the worker do
not walk onto oncoming trains. They did the same thing on the Pelham
Bay El last year.
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NEXT>9401
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poustka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:12 1998
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Posted by Marek Poustka on February 05, 1998 at 08:04:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: help me.... posted by ALEX ROCCO on February 04,
1998 at 16:53:12:
Thank you so much.
Send to me please zour adress.
I send zou about Czech subway in Prague.
I find good friend with subway hobby.
Can You benn my good friend ???
My e-mail adress is: poustka@hotmail.com
Marek Poustka
P.O.Box 78
Strakonice 1
386 01
If you can,then send to me letter or mail.
Thank you. I am happy.
Bye.
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NEXT>9363
PREVIOUS>9355
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:14 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 08:43:30:
In Reply to: [8]new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Lefty on February 04, 1998 at 20:33:34:
The connection you're referring to will eventually be used by Broadway
express trains (most likely Q trains) to Queens via the Queens
connector. It will also be tied into the Second Ave. line, if it's
ever built. As a matter of fact, at Lexington Ave-63rd St., there is
an additional track on each level which is supposed to tie in to the
2nd Ave. line; this track leads directly to the Broadway line. It's on
the other side of the wall which runs down the middle of each
platform. If the 2nd Ave. line is ever built, I would imagine this
wall will be removed. There are scissor switches just west of
Lexington Ave. on each level which give Broadway trains access to
Roosevelt Island and the Queens connector. During the summer of 1995,
when the Manhattan Bridge was closed to all trains during weekday
middays, evenings, and weekends. Q trains were routed from DeKalb Ave.
through the Montague St. tunnel to the Broadway line, where they ran
express to 57th St. and continued onto the 63rd St. line via this
previously unused connection, switching over to the 6th Ave. track
just before Lexington Ave.
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NEXT>9378
PREVIOUS>9362
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:18 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 08:46:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Adam on February 05, 1998 at 00:56:04:
Adam
Unfortunately, the TA doesn't really have a choice. Seems the roadbed
was poorly constructed, and they want to take care of it before the
63rd Street Connection to Queens Boulevard opens. As I understand it,
they have to tear out everything on track level, including the base
and some utilities.
Michael
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9328
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Accident a few years back on Septa....
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:21 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 08:50:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Accident a few years back on Septa.... posted by
STEVE on February 04, 1998 at 16:12:34:
Actually, Steve, I was going to school in New York City at the time,
so I was not fully aware of all the details...
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NEXT>9371
PREVIOUS>9292
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:27 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 08:54:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 03, 1998 at 17:25:49:
Michael--
Actually, I've not seen or been able to access the subway/el schedules
on the website. Has that changed in recent days?
Mike
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NEXT>9367
PREVIOUS>9359
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:30 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 09:05:06:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by David
Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 23:10:22:
Brian Cudahy mentions a few el derailments in Brooklyn in Under the
Sidewalks of New York. In one instance, the train caught on fire, and
firemen attempting to put out the blaze "were sent sprawling when
their streams hit the still-energized third rail".
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NEXT>9369
PREVIOUS>9366
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:33 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 05, 1998 at 09:11:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Steve on
February 04, 1998 at 19:11:56:
It does sound like the recovery efforts were a lot quicker and more
efficient than anyone would have expected. What is the status of the
four derailed redbirds? Are they damaged beyond repair, or will they
be returned to service?
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NEXT>9387
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:35 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 09:44:53:
In Reply to: [7]148 and Lenox Station posted by subway-buff on
February 04, 1998 at 16:23:23:
The 145 St. station was built in the 1910s. Around 1970 or so, the
"148-Lenox Terminal" station was added as an extra station. It is NOT
a mere 3 blocks away despite the name.
The 145 St station is at Lenox Avenue, which if it were numbered would
be 6th Avenue. The 148 St station is at A.C. Powell Blvd. which if it
were still numbered would be 7th Avenue, so it is 3 short blocks + 1
long avenue away. Typically one avenue = 3.5 city blocks, so the
distance is actually 6.5 city blocks, or about 1/3 of a mile, not such
a large distance, but not too different from other Manhattan station
distances.
Besides, since the train is about to end its run anyway, and the
tracks were always there in the yard, and the train always turned
around there anyway, I guess the MTA thought it was a good idea to
build an extra station there rather than have all the #3 trains have
just one station to themselves, 145 St.
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NEXT>9372
PREVIOUS>9367
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:38 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 09:49:02:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by THE EXPRESS
TRAIN on February 04, 1998 at 17:08:23:
A few times in the last 100 years, a train has derailed in a tunnel,
and the train has hit the tunnel wall, and people have been injured or
killed. Following your reasoning, should we then get rid of all
subways that are in tunnels or have walls near them? Just
asking...Obviously, I don't believe that.
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NEXT>9423
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Ashland Place Connection
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:40 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 05, 1998 at 09:59:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Steve B on
February 04, 1998 at 16:59:20:
I believe that the proposed connection from the Fulton St. El to
DeKalb Ave was called the "Ashland Place Connection." The
reconstruction of the junction at DeKalb in the 1950s (which replaced
the crossovers north of DeKalb Ave. with a flying junction to the
south) pretty much destroyed any evidence of provisions for this
connection (which was no longer needed as the Fulton St. El had been
gone since 1940).
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9365
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:46 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 05, 1998 at 10:08:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 08:54:55:
I just checked SEPTA's website. The schedules for the Market-Frankford
& Broad Street Lines are NOT online. Every other SEPTA route has an
online schedule available, but the two busiest lines in the system do
not. Go figure!!
If you need paper TTs for SEPTA, call them at (215) 580-7777 or send
me an email & I'll mail them to you.
Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9374
PREVIOUS>9369
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:51 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 05, 1998 at 10:38:07:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Joe M on
February 04, 1998 at 23:29:12:
The 1977 incident is not mentioned on the CTA web site (not
surprisingly) or on the handful of Chicago rapid-transit fan sites.
However, there is a brief but enlightening description of the disaster
at the Chicago Public Library site, at:
http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/cta_crash.html
Hope this helps.
John B. Bredin, Esq.
jbredin@planning.org
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NEXT>9417
PREVIOUS>9330
POSTER>Phil Kane
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:56 1998
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Posted by Phil Kane on February 05, 1998 at 10:46:29:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Steve B on February 02,
1998 at 08:05:08:
Another comment on the attempt to bring the remake into the 90s....
At no time was the term "motorman" used. He was called at one point
"train operator" which is what we call them in San Francisco BART but
it certainly isn't "New York-ese".
(What are they called today in NY???)
Another departure from the first movie (and that from the novel) --
Remember in the first movie when Walter M. gets in the police car and
meets "Inspector Daniels" face to face and finds out that he is
African-American .... :"Danield" notices his surprise and gets an
exprerssion of question, whereupm Walter M. stammers "err.,. I thought
you were.....younger!!!"
My final feeling is that the remake was very hokey.
=== PMK ===
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NEXT>9383
PREVIOUS>9372
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:57:59 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 05, 1998 at 10:59:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by THE EXPRESS
TRAIN on February 04, 1998 at 17:08:23:
Since when do trains travel through aqueducts???
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Brooklyn IRT
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:02 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 05, 1998 at 11:36:19:
I am doing the Brooklyn IRT to New Lots and Flatbush.(All stations
from Park Place to Brooklyn.) Any photos, trivia, etc.will be
appreciated. You will be given credit for submissions.Thanks to thoise
submitting photos for the 1 and 4 trains. So far no one submitted any
items for the 6-- any takers? Photos for your name?
with the 6 and Brooklyn IRT I will have done the entire H In Manhattan
and entire Brooklyn IRT. (I am leaving Lenox and White Plains to
someone else.)
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NEXT>9377
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Monthly Pass
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:05 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 05, 1998 at 11:38:15:
This is something no one has been able to tell me. Will the proposed
MTA monthly pass be sold through the mail, perhaps with an automatic
deduction from a credit card (a la EZ-Pass)? If so, that would be a
great gain in convenience for the rider. If not, the lines at the
token booths on the first day of the month, along with the stress on
employees changing, counting, and depositing so much cash at once,
will be a horror. Surely they are smart enough not to do that to us?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9376
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Monthly Pass
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:07 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 05, 1998 at 11:58:37:
In Reply to: [8]Monthly Pass posted by Larry Littlefield on February
05, 1998 at 11:38:15:
Unless I'm completely mistaken (someone please correct me if that's
the case), the monthly passes will not be like their counterparts on
commuter trains, good for a calendar month. They'll instead be valid
for a one-month period following their first use. This will lessen,
though not eliminate, the first-of-the-month rush.
I haven't heard anything about sales by mail.
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NEXT>9379
PREVIOUS>9363
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:10 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 12:38:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 08:46:00:
What does anyone think would happen now if the bridge closed? where
would Bklyn service terminate? or would they try to through route it
with the shuttle?
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NEXT>9382
PREVIOUS>9378
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:12 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 05, 1998 at 12:41:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Adam on February 05, 1998 at 00:56:04:
Right now, there is no alternative; the Tram is out indefinately
because a crane kissed it and caused enough damage that an
international crew from Denmark or Switzerland has to come and check
it out.
--Mark
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NEXT>9393
PREVIOUS>9358
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:15 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 12:59:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Ben-Zion
Y. Cassouto on February 05, 1998 at 03:17:30:
At one time, back in the teens, there was talk of upgrading the Fulton
St. el and tying it into the 4th Ave. subway at DeKalb Ave. There
would have been a connecting ramp at Ashland Place; not surprisingly,
this was to be called the Ashland Place connection, and tunnels were
put in which would have led to this ramp. One section of the el was
upgraded, from Franklin Ave. to Atlantic Ave., as well as the eastern
end along Liberty Ave. where A trains run today. Brian Cudahy writes
about this in Under the Sidewalks of New York; he states the Ashland
Place connection "more than likely would have been built had not a
John Francis Hylan sat in City Hall for eight years". Hylan was a BRT
motorman who was fired; he bore a grudge against private subway
operation for the rest of his life. It was this grudge which delayed
completion of the Nassau Loop until after he had left office. Hylan
pushed for municipal operations and was the driving force behind the
IND subway, whose Fulton St. line doomed the el above it..
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NEXT>9384
PREVIOUS>9354
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail?
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:19 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 05, 1998 at 13:07:14:
In Reply to: [7]Do all el's have "4th" rail? posted by Bill on
February 05, 1998 at 00:53:14:
I believe what you are referring to is called a Guard Rail. They are
used in situations where derailments would be particularly
disasterous. Typical of these are bridges, turnouts and the inside
rail of curves. The entire length of elevated track would certainly be
appropriate usage, but I doubt that it is universally specified.
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NEXT>9386
PREVIOUS>9379
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:23 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 05, 1998 at 13:14:19:
In Reply to: [7]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Mark S Feinman on February 05, 1998 at
12:41:00:
Beats being clipped by a couple of Marines in an A-6!
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NEXT>9385
PREVIOUS>9374
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:28 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 05, 1998 at 13:17:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by David
Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 23:10:22:
Ther's a picture in Greller's BMTsubway cars of Standard hanging off
the end of the 168th st. terminal in Jamaica-he dates it ariund 1926
or so...
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NEXT>9416
PREVIOUS>9381
POSTER>Mark Goldey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail?
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:34 1998
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Posted by Mark Goldey on February 05, 1998 at 13:24:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail? posted by Gary Jacobi
on February 05, 1998 at 13:07:14:
Actually, there are two possibilities. One is a "keeper rail" that
runs along curves near the the inside-curve rail, perhaps and inch or
so from the rail, in between the two rails. The purpose of the "keeper
rail" is to prevent derailment, since the subways wheels are flanged
on the inside, and there is nothing to force the wheel against the
rail on the inside of a curve. These are present on non-elevated track
as well as on bridges.
The other possibility is a rail that is designed to support the weight
of the train once it has derailed. Since the wheels of a subway car
are sharp --i.e. flanged -- they would cut right through the ties on a
bridge and the car could convievable fall beneath the rails. This type
of fourth rail is designed to support the weight of the car, keep the
wheels off the ties, and spread the weight to adjoining ties.
As for the configuration of the old El's, I'm afraid I have no idea.
--mhg
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NEXT>9405
PREVIOUS>9383
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:40 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 05, 1998 at 13:29:57:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Adam on
February 04, 1998 at 18:51:32:
The Chicago Library site mentioned below cites six to-the-ground
accidents on the L prior to the 1977 incident which killed seven.
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NEXT>9435
PREVIOUS>9382
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:45 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 05, 1998 at 13:47:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Gary Jacobi on February 05, 1998 at 13:14:19:
That's BAD! But the Roosevelt Island Operating Corp is considering NOT
restoring the tram, because it loses money. By law, the fare has to be
.25 to .50 cents higher than the subway fare. It was supposed to be
shut down in 1990, when the 63st tunnel opened, but community pressure
kept it open. With the unlimited passes coming on-line in a few
months, I can see the tram ridership dropping even further. Why take
the tram to Manhattan, then board a bus, when you can take the subway
direct, and then switch to a bus if you want, for less money?
-Hank
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NEXT>9390
PREVIOUS>9368
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:49 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 05, 1998 at 13:52:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 09:44:53:
Another reason, could be that the 145st station is only 4 car lengths
long (maybe 5). Hard to clean an entire train at a terminal where you
can't access 1/2 the cars....It's a different situation at south
ferry..
-Hank
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NEXT>9396
PREVIOUS>9349
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:51 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 05, 1998 at 13:55:58:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 04, 1998 at 23:35:30:
Don't forget the switch heaters, smoke pots on the LIRR. Snows too
fast they can't keep em lit. This winter has been so mild (half way
through) I don't think we'll get a tie breaker for underrunning or
overrunning shoes.
MN 1 - LIRR 1, till next year.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, WAIT NO TRAM!!
DATE>Feb 10 16:58:58 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 05, 1998 at 13:59:17:
In Reply to: [7]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Adam on February 05, 1998 at 00:56:04:
As of yet, TRAM service has NOT been restored since the accident with
the crane. There was a meeting last night where residents demanded
tram service to be restored. 11 people were hurt in the accident.
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NEXT>9397
PREVIOUS>9387
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:02 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 05, 1998 at 14:09:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 05, 1998 at 13:52:12:
Something is not right with this: the 145 St. station can only fit 4
cars... When they made the stations longer in the 50s, why couldn't
they enlongate this station to fit at least 8 cars if not the full
10... Then, while they made this, they probably not have made the
Lenox Terminal at 148 St. (unless it was already there before they
built the station in the 70s)... Could somebody give me some info on
that thanks?
Thanks!
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NEXT>9395
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mitch
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:05 1998
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Posted by Mitch on February 05, 1998 at 14:10:28:
A couple of questions for the experts:
On a NYC subway, what provides the traction to move the train: the
first car or all the cars?
On commuter trains (like NJT), I believe there's usually a separate
engine. Most of the time, the engine is in the front, but sometimes
it's in the back. When it's in the back, is it pushing the train? I
always thought that it was unsafe to do that, because the cars would
be in compression, which might make derailing easier (I derailed my
Lionel trains more going backward than forward). Maybe I don't know
what I'm talking about. Help me out please. Thanks!
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NEXT>9415
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Tram accidents
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:10 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 05, 1998 at 14:19:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, WAIT NO TRAM!! posted by
Lou from Brooklyn on February 05, 1998 at 13:59:17:
Speaking of freak accidents with aerial trams, did you hear about the
incident Tuesday in Italy where 20 people were killed, when the cable
holding up their tram car was cut by a low flying USAF reconnaisance
plane? The Italian authorities are (understandably) screaming bloody
murder, almost literally: they want to prosecute the pilot under their
criminal negligent-homicide law.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9380
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:12 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 14:32:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Manhattan Bridge Alternatives posted by Steve B on
February 05, 1998 at 12:59:13:
It seems like most of the IND was designed to replace the oldest El
lines.
The 8th Ave and 6th Avenue subways replace the 9th Ave. and 6th Ave.
Els.
The Fulton St. subway replaced the Fulton St. El.
The Crosstown line helped get rid of the Lexington Ave.(Bklyn) and
Myrtle Ave. Els.
The never built connection from 2nd Avenue to Wiliamsburg might have
someday replaced the Broadway (Bklyn) El.
And the Concourse Subway could have replaced the Jerome Ave. El, but I
guess there are so many apartment buildings and steep hills that they
never had any reason to tear it down.
Only the Queens, Church Ave., Houston St. and Washington Hts. lines
served new neighborhoods. And the Church Ave line was built to divert
the Culver from the BMT eventually, which of course it did.
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NEXT>9398
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:17 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 05, 1998 at 14:39:13:
I received a brochure yesterday from the Grand Street station
describing how service will be disrupted over the Lenox line so that
they can do some serious tunnel work... Let me see if I can explain
it:
Between 5 am and 12 noon, ALL downtown #2 trains will run its normal
route; however, ALL uptown #2 trains will run over the Lexington Ave.
line Express from Franklin Ave. to 149th St.-Grand Concourse (except
from 8-9am, when a LIMITED amount of Uptown #2 trains {I believe 4}
will run over the Lenox line)...
Between 12 noon and Midnight, ALL downtown #2 trains will run over the
Lexington AVe. line from 149th St.-Grand Concourse to Franklin
Ave(except from 4-5pm, when a LIMITED amount of downtown #2 trains
will run over Lenox Ave)... Uptown service will be normal...
As for #3 service, it will run over its normal route... HOWEVER, at
96th St., it will run over the 1/9 line to 137th Street... Between 5am
and 12 midnight, a VERY LIMITED amount of trains will actually go to
the Lenox Terminal...
Now, here is a major problem: CONGESTION! The #3 will be extremely
crowded for those people from Brooklyn wishing to/from the West
Side... But, I feel that the major problem is over the Lexington Ave.
line... DON'T YOU THINK THAT THIS LINE IS ALREADY THE MOST CONGESTED
LINE IN NYC!!! Adding the #2 is just going to make matters worse...
THIS IS WHY WE NEED THE SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY!!!!!! If the people at
the NYCTA would actually get their heads out of their a--es, then they
would realize that IF the 2nd Ave. line were actually here, it would
make traveling over the East side of Manhattan a hell of a lot
easier... If the Web-site host reads this (I would greatly appreciate
it Mr. Pirmann), I would like your input into this... And to all the
people who write daily on SUBTALK, think about the congestion... We
need to do something to let the people at NYCTA know that the Second
Ave. line is needed...PERIOD! The madness begins on March 2, 1998 and
ends supposedly until September... BRACE YOURSELVES!
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NEXT>9407
PREVIOUS>9391
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:21 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
In Reply to: [7]Traction questions posted by Mitch on February 05,
1998 at 14:10:28:
Every NYC subway car, I think, has its own traction. I once heard of a
train driven from the 3rd car in an emergency, I think.
On big railroads, push-pull is very common, "Push" is when the engine
is in the back in one direction. When there was a commuter-Amtrak
train collision in DC (actually Silver Spring, MD) two years ago,
there was a lot written about push-pull systems. One rail expert said
that the easy derailment of a model railroad train is not anything
like what happens to regular trains, because of the much heavier
weight of the trains on the very heavy rails, and the carefully
designed flanges on real railroad wheels. The flanges are more
complicated, a little bit angled, and deeper than on model trains. The
shape and proportional weight prevents them from derailing in a push
operation.
The problem with it in DC was that when the engine of a pulling Amtrak
train crashed into the front (passenger) car of a pushed commuter
train, the commuter train was crushed and knocked over immediately.
Had the train been pulled, two engines would have collided and the
damage would have been more evenly distributed to the two trains, and
the passenger cars might not have been destroyed and people killed.
The conventional wisdom was that the commuter motorman saw a yellow
light just before a station (Kensington, MD), forgot that it was
yellow, then proceeded one minute later, at full speed into the switch
where the accident occurred. It was believed that moving the light
would fix the problem (certainly correct), but that the motorman
forgot about it and so was to blame. (Dead men can't testify.)
One scenario never described in the newspapers here that I think,
personally, was the most likely cause of the accident was that the
light was green before the station, the motorman stopped at the
station, the light -- already behind him -- turned yellow, and there
was no way he could ever see it. Then the (dead) motorman would not
have been at fault. But that was never stated, ever. Also the area was
always referred to as a two-track line, but there is a third track
there, never mentioned, but it was in photographs, and I went over to
the site and saw it. I never could understand why these obvious facts
were never stated.
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NEXT>9414
PREVIOUS>9388
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:24 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 05, 1998 at 14:49:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by Lou from Brooklyn on
February 05, 1998 at 13:55:58:
The winter ain't over yet, Lou! hehehehehehehehe.....
Todd Glickman
The SubTalk Meteorologist
(And NO, I don't have anything specific to tell. And NO, it has
nothing to do with El Nino. But Mother Nature LOVES to average things
out. Now maybe El Nino HAS had something to do with all the subway
accidents this year *grin*.)
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NEXT>9402
PREVIOUS>9390
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:26 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 14:53:09:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Daniel
A. Valles on February 05, 1998 at 14:09:54:
The tracks to 148-7th Ave. were always there, there is a yard there. I
think the station is even outdoors in the yard. (I haven't been there
by rail but I drove past it a couple of times.) Perhaps 145 St.
couldn't be lengthened because of the switches or the yard entrance.
And they can't get rid of it because then there would be nearly a mile
between the 135 and the 148 St. station, which is abnormally distant
for Manhattan, especially when there is no other closeby line.
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NEXT>9400
PREVIOUS>9394
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:27 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 15:10:24:
In Reply to: [8]The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 05, 1998 at 14:39:13:
You hit the nail right on the head. If there was ever a time when the
Second Ave. line was needed, it's needed now. I've ridden the
Lexington Ave. line more than once, and have seen how packed those
trains are. Makes you kind of wish Ted Turner had donated that $1
billion to the MTA, although it'll take a lot more than that to build
the 2nd Ave. line. Maybe Donald Trump could ante up....
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NEXT>9404
PREVIOUS>9339
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Security in Septa's Subway system
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:31 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
IP_ADDRESS> REMOTE_HOST: ; REMOTE_ADDR:
IMAGE>
LINKNAME>
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Posted by STEVE on February 05, 1998 at 15:11:41:
In Reply to: [7]Security in Septa's Subway system posted by Dr testa
on February 04, 1998 at 19:40:10:
YOU ARE MOST RIGHT. A CAMERA WILL NOT HELP TO SAVE YOUR LIFE IF SOME
THUG ATTACKS YOU ON A PLATFORM. AND WHO KNOWS? KNOWING SEPTA, THEY MAY
NOT EVEN WORK.
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NEXT>9413
PREVIOUS>9398
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:33 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 15:14:14:
In Reply to: [7]The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 05, 1998 at 14:39:13:
It's a shame that the Lenox Line has deteriorated so much that it has
to be half shut down for 6 months. It appears that they will only be
able to use one track: using it for the most necessary trains (SB) in
the morning and using it again (NB) for the most popular train in the
evening. However, do you really think that building a 2nd Avenue
subway, which if they started tomorrow and worked with 24/7 crews at
all points on it would still take at least 5 years to build (as does
every subway line in the world), that it should be built before
shifting things around for 6 months to repair a dangerous problem in a
nearly-century old tunnel? I know it all sounds bad, but it also seems
as if whoever planned this work thought long and hard about how to
make it as painless as possible.
Actually, people from both the Bronx and Bklyn going to Wall St. won't
even notice. They will take whatever comes first. People going to
midtown may just have to take the 42 St. shuttle, which itself may
become much more crowded (Now this is a potential problem). Many will
just switch at Union Square (from Brooklyn) or 59 St. (from the Bronx)
to the 7th Avenue's nearly parallel-running and underused N/R line.
Sometimes things have to be done. I applaud them for not just saying:
"Nothing on the Lenox Branch for 6 months, and we're not even going to
try to have through traffic to the Bronx."
I assume there will be more 11-car trains, and the Dyre Avenue train
will be a shuttle to 180 St. most of the time. And it's good that they
are running the 3 to 137-Bway and not just 96th so people can catch
busses on 110, 125, 137 and so that there is not a train turnaround
zoo at 96 Street all the time. It won't be great, but I believe it's a
well-thought-out plan to minimize total inconvenience.
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NEXT>9403
PREVIOUS>9361
POSTER>ALEX
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:35 1998
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Posted by ALEX on February 05, 1998 at 15:25:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO posted by Marek Poustka
on February 05, 1998 at 08:04:23:
GLAD TO BE OF SERVICE, MAREK. I WILL SEND YOU MY ADRESS IN TWO DAYS
BECAUSE I WILL BE AWAY. IN THE MEANTIME HERE IS SOME MORE INFORMATION
ON THE SUBWAY IN PHILADELPHIA WHICH IS ABOUT 121 KILOMETERS SOUTH OF
NEW YORK CITY. THERE ARE ONLY TWO SERIOUS LINES, THE MARKET-FRANKFORD,
CALLED THAT BECAUSE IT RUNS AS AN ELEVATED TRAIN( SUPPORTED ABOUT 10
METERS OFF THE GROUND ON A STRUCTURE) ON MARKET STREET AND AS A SUBWAY
DOWNTOWN THEN AS AN ELEVATED( OR AS WE IN AMERICA CALL IT AN "L") ON
FRANKFORD AVENUE. THEN WE HAVE THE BROAD STREET SUBWAY WHICH IS JUST A
SUBWAY. THERE ARE TWO MORE LINES WHICH CAN AND CANNOT BE CALLED A
SUBWAY. THERE ARE THE TROLLEYS( OR AS YOU MAY CALL THEM TRAMS) WHICH
RUN UNDERGROUND FOR PART OF THEIR ROUTE AND A TRAIN WHICH GOES BETWEEN
PHILADELPHIA(A CITY) AND ANOTHER STATE CALLED NEW JERSEY AND IS CALLED
THE PATCO TRAIN AND IS UNDERGROUN BUT DOES NOT STAY IN PHILADELPHIA. I
HOPE THAT YOU CAN USE THOSE TOO! BYE-BYE!
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NEXT>9432
PREVIOUS>9397
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:39 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 15:29:15:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 14:53:09:
On current subway maps, there is a script by the 145th St. station
which reads, "exit from the first 4 cars only". I take it this
explains why #3 trains are 9 cars long, instead of ten. Similarly,
there is a script by South Ferry on maps which reads, "exit from the
first 5 cars only". I know for a fact that the conductor on 1/9 trains
makes an announcement to that effect when approaching South Ferry; I
can only assume a similar announcement is made on #3 trains when
approaching 145th St.
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NEXT>9470
PREVIOUS>9401
POSTER>ALEX
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:42 1998
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Posted by ALEX on February 05, 1998 at 15:34:45:
In Reply to: [7]Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO posted by ALEX on
February 05, 1998 at 15:25:41:
OH! ONE MORE THING. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN LENGTH THERE ARE A TOTAL
OF 66 STOPS AND ALMOST 70 MILES OR 105 KILOMETERS. THE
MARKET-FRANKFORD IS BLUE, THE BROAD STREET SUBWAY IS ORANGE AND THE
TROLLEY IS GREEN AND THE PATCO IS RED. BYE!
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NEXT>9482
PREVIOUS>9399
POSTER>Dr Testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Security in Septa's Subway system
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:46 1998
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Posted by Dr Testa on February 05, 1998 at 15:42:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Security in Septa's Subway system posted by STEVE
on February 05, 1998 at 15:11:41:
Someone in this city who thinks the same way I do, finally.
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NEXT>9419
PREVIOUS>9385
POSTER>THE EXPRESS TRAIN
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:49 1998
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Posted by THE EXPRESS TRAIN on February 05, 1998 at 15:44:07:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 09:49:02:
CONSIDER THIS. IF A TRAIN IS RUNNING(LETS SAY IN NEW YORK) BETWEEN
23rd AND
28th ON THE WEST SIDE IRT AND DERAILS LESS PEOPLE WILL DIE THAN IF IT
FALLS OFF THE TRACK AT 215 STREET WHEN IT IS ELEVATED. AND WHAT IS
GOOD ABOUT ELS ANYWAY? THEY'RE LOUD. THEY BLOCK SUNLIGHT( SOMETHING
WHICH DOESN'T REALLY CONCERN ME SINCE I LIKE IT UNDERGROUND) AND I
HATE LOOKING AT THOSE DARN SUPPORT BEAMS ALONG THE STREET! AND I'M NOT
STOIC. MAYBE I'LL CONVERT IF PRESENTED WITH A GOOD REBUTTAL.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9350
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford Lines (Correction)
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:52 1998
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Posted by STEVE on February 05, 1998 at 15:53:23:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SEPTA Timetables For Broad St. & Market-Frankford
Lines (Correction) posted by AdamZ on February 04, 1998 at 23:39:10:
SORRY FOR USING YOUR NAME IN THE LAST RESPONSE. MY BAD. AS FOR YOUR
M-4 EXPERIENCE, LET'S ALL PRAY THAT IT STARTS TO BE THAT WAY.
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NEXT>9426
PREVIOUS>9395
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:55 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 15:56:45:
In Reply to: [8]Traction questions posted by Mitch on February 05,
1998 at 14:10:28:
All subway cars in New York today have four traction motors. A system
known as multiple-unit control is employed enabling the motorman to
control all motors from one location. The R-44 and R-46 cars fall into
two categories: some have full-width cab on one end and no cab on the
other end; others have no cabs at all and are called motorized
trailers. Most often, these cars are run in four-car sets:
cab-trailer-trailer-cab.
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NEXT>9412
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:57 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
What is the only train that stops at two completely different stations
with exactly the same name? What is that station name?
And what major avenue in Manhattan has subway stops at 23, 42, 53, 59
Streets?
Answers tomorrow unless you guys figure it out sooner...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9360
POSTER>Anthony Cabrera Mondesire
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: "Track" Fence Dividers-> #2 Line bet BxPk E ->Burke Ave
DATE>Feb 10 16:59:59 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Anthony Cabrera Mondesire on February 05, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: "Track" Fence Dividers-> #2 Line bet BxPk E
->Burke Ave posted by Serafin jr on February 05, 1998 at 07:24:00:
Thanks, Serafin Jr. for the info.
Respectfully,
ACM
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9319
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: QUEENS&BROOKLYN
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:02 1998
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Posted by STEVE on February 05, 1998 at 16:05:00:
In Reply to: [7]QUEENS&BROOKLYN posted by Kinm on January 30, 1998 at
12:09:36:
BROOKLYN AND QUEENS BOTH WERE ANNEXED BY NEW YORK IN 1898( AS WERE THE
OTHER TWO OUTER BOUROUGHS) MAKING THE CITY 100 YEARS OLD AS WE KNOW IT
TODAY. I WOULD IMAGINE THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH
TWO SEPARATE CITIES AND SINCE THEY WERE SO CLOSE TO WHERE ALL THE
ACTION IS ANNEXATION WAS IN THE CARDS.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9246
POSTER>BRIAN
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: map of New York subway
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:13 1998
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Posted by BRIAN on February 05, 1998 at 16:08:43:
In Reply to: [7]Re: map of New York subway posted by George on January
30, 1998 at 09:17:55:
If you will look at Marek's next request he wants a picture of a
dispatchers office. A little curious, isn't he?
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NEXT>9418
PREVIOUS>9408
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:15 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 05, 1998 at 16:13:18:
In Reply to: [8]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
1. The R train stops at 36th Street in Queens, then again at 36th
Street in Brooklyn.
2. Sneaky -- I was tempted to say Lexington Avenue, but the 23rd
street stop on the Lexington Avenue line is on Park Avenue! I guess
the answer is none!
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NEXT>9439
PREVIOUS>9400
POSTER>rufus
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:18 1998
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Posted by rufus on February 05, 1998 at 16:15:27:
In Reply to: [7]The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 05, 1998 at 14:39:13:
a few months ago i posted a challenge to the users of new york subway
resources. i wanted to see who thought they had the best system. my
computer died that night and i never got the chance to see the
responses if there were any at all. may i request that everyone who
sees this respond. and by best, i mean what does it mean to you? what
has been an experience you had on a city subway train? i am writing a
manuscript on the subject and would like to know what real subway
riders think( sorry about me. i live in vermont.)
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NEXT>9465
PREVIOUS>9396
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:20 1998
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Posted by STEVE on February 05, 1998 at 16:20:50:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by Todd Glickman on
February 05, 1998 at 14:49:31:
GEE TODD. A LITTLE CASE OF DEMENTIA HERE(SNICKER). BUT SERIOUSLY, YOU
ARE RIGHT. MOTHER NATURE LIKES TO FOOL WITH US LITTLE HUMANS. AND AS
FOR THE SALT THING, I HAVE SOMETHING NEW TO WET MY BEAK ON BESIDES
PUTTING TIM DOWN.( READ ONE OF MY CAPS-LOCKED! RESPONSES)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9392
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Tram accidents
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:22 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 05, 1998 at 17:48:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Tram accidents posted by John B. Bredin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:19:56:
Yeah...I'd like to see the Pilot juiced IMHO...
What really ticks me off is that there have been *30* incedents of
lines being hit by millitary planes in the last 3 or so years. Not
that "Top Gun" flying is anything new - I heard of USAF planes buzzing
buildings, flying under High Tension (read: Voltage) lines, etc years
ago. Not to mention that incedent out by NJ the a while back where a
millitary plane trigged the collisionm avoidence system on an airliner
(727, I think). The guy was playing "Top Gun", and got caught...
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NEXT>9517
PREVIOUS>9384
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail?
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:24 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 05, 1998 at 18:01:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail? posted by Gary Jacobi
on February 05, 1998 at 13:07:14:
In the days of steam, the wooden stringers were used and continue to
this day, although the stringers, in some cases have been replaced
with long bar stock that keep the ties from shifting.
Sometimes the inner rails were used for signal current transmission
before carrier wave signal transmission was implemented.
However, guard rails are still needed on the els and subways.
In some cases, the use of guard rails has diminished on main line
roads.
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NEXT>9440
PREVIOUS>9373
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:26 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 05, 1998 at 18:20:58:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Phil Kane on February 05,
1998 at 10:46:29:
Actually, Matthau says, "Oh, I thought you were, like, maybe a shorter
or, aw, I don't know what I thought."
Caz Dolowicz on cussing in front of Mrs. Jenkins: "Oh, come on. If I
have to watch my language just because they let a few broads in, I'm
gonna quit. How the hell can you run a %$$@%$$# railroad without
swearing?!?"
"What were you doing with your hand in the john, anyway?"
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NEXT>9421
PREVIOUS>9412
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:28 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 05, 1998 at 18:21:25:
In Reply to: [8]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
1. The D train stops at 7 Ave (53 St) Manhattan and 7 Ave (Flatbush
Ave) Brooklyn.
2. Fifth Ave. (23 St. on the N/R is at the corner of Broadway, 5th
Ave, and 23rd, 42 St. on the 7, 53 St. on the E/F, and 59 St. on the
N/R).
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NEXT>9420
PREVIOUS>9405
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:30 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 05, 1998 at 18:54:46:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Peter Rosa
on February 05, 1998 at 09:11:14:
Ordinarily I wouldn't speculate (because the heavy overhaul shop can
perform miracles) but at least 2 are definitely at the end of the
line. In all, I'd think 6 will be retired considering the damage they
sustained.
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NEXT>9438
PREVIOUS>9419
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:32 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 05, 1998 at 19:06:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Sammy on
February 05, 1998 at 02:38:19:
Why Sammy, an almost non-critical reply. We must be winning you over.
Actually, I went as an observer and teacher. The 300 or so people
working
there had everything under control. When these type of incidents
occur, I like to take some of my employees to see the potential
results of screwing up. (that's not to be taken as a judgement about
this incident)
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NEXT>9429
PREVIOUS>9418
POSTER>David J. Greenberger
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:34 1998
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Posted by David J. Greenberger on February 05, 1998 at 19:07:32:
In Reply to: [8]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
1. D: Seventh Avenue (Manhattan and Brooklyn).
2. Fifth Avenue (N/R at 23rd Street, 7 at 42nd Street, E/F at 53rd
Street, N/R at 59th Street).
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NEXT>9442
PREVIOUS>9197
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:35 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 19:10:31:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train posted by sdc-foti on
February 02, 1998 at 08:19:38:
Now the maps are appearing posted in stations! Chambers St JMZ, both
platform and mezzanine. The route infomation box is too low. They
should have stuck with the neat line by line, five time period grid,
and kept in the upper right corner. Also, I wish they would try to
design the map to show actual bus routes.
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NEXT>9512
PREVIOUS>9370
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ashland Place Connection
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:37 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 19:21:24:
In Reply to: [7]Ashland Place Connection posted by Ed Sachs on
February 05, 1998 at 09:59:12:
North of Atlantic, at the fork between the bridge and tunnel band
tracks, there is a stub of a line in the outer wall of the northbound
track. This must have been for the Ashland Place connection. From what
I read somwhere, that whole deck of the system was to lead to Fulton,
but then the present more direct routel to Prospect Pk was built
instead.
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NEXT>9430
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:40 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 05, 1998 at 19:22:28:
Here's one I still do not believe. A proposed new route for when the
63rd Street connection opens. J train from Parsons/Archer terminal,
over the Williamsburg Bridge, through the cut to 6th Ave. Then up 6th
Ave, through the 63rd St cut and out to 179th St. Approximately 35
miles to end up 6 blocks from where you started. I heard this one last
Tuesday and thought it was a joke. Today I heard it again from a new
source. Perhaps you can check it out with your friend in O & P and
either confirm this or ease my mind.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9321
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Linden Shops
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:44 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 19:56:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Linden Shops posted by Peter Rosa on February 04,
1998 at 14:34:20:
The Linden shops connects to the Bay ridge freight line, which
connects with the system at 39th St. That's what he meant by hooking
them up to diesel.
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NEXT>9437
PREVIOUS>9407
POSTER>Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:47 1998
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Posted by Michael Lyons on February 05, 1998 at 20:00:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
Carl,
You are correct, all revenue cars have at least one traction motor.
You are also correct in the fact that these cars can be operated from
any where else on the train that there are controls. This is refered
to as "other than head end operation". This is done in very limited
circumstances. Another interesting thing I "heard" about(not sure if
it is true) is that on the R44/46 "no cab" units there was controls
behind a panel, near the storm door, which allowed some sort of
limited operation. I heard they were disabled due to misuse. If any
one knows more details about this, please share them.
Thank You
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NEXT>9456
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:49 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 20:09:28:
On the recent thread, people mentioned LED signs on new Flyers, and
others mentioned the lack of route colors, and visibility.
I had wanted to mention that signs out now can display red, green, and
mix them to get yellow, amber and orange. These are used on the new
signs appearing in stations now, and on the 110A train, where you can
turn a red #2 to a green #5 at the push of a button. Now, blue LED's
are becoming available, which will allow for the full color spectrum.
Their prior inavailability is the reason the 110B still used a
rollsign. You still don't see them around, though. A Popular Science
missue from 3 years ago showed a full color sign in a Tokyo subway
station, but they were too expensive and burned out too quickly to be
used here. Now, you can find individual units at Radio Shack, so they
should start appearing on signs shortly.
So this would be good for B division cars, and also on buses, which
for the first time could display route colors. As for the visibility,
the signs used now are great underground (the LED "2" is much crisper
and clearer than the rollsign. You can tell it's the new train from
the next station) But I'm not sure how that would hold up outdoors. I
even heard a rumor that they may go back to rollsigns on the new IRT
cars. I hope this isnt so. Also, this technology would be good for the
side signs as well, instead of the yellow LCD.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9323
POSTER>David J. Greenberger
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dave: Hold your horses!
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:52 1998
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Posted by David J. Greenberger on February 05, 1998 at 20:12:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dave: Hold your horses! posted by David Pirmann on
February 04, 1998 at 15:08:51:
Well, why not convert the whole system to NNTP, then? Newsreader
software is better suited to ongoing threads of this sort and
archiving is unnecessary. Most web browsers include newsreaders, so
anyone who can access the site now will be able to then. Personally, I
find it so much easier to read news than to use the web interface that
I usually read *only* the archives through my favorite newsreader --
but then, of course, everything is out of date, and I can't reply to
anything.
Is there any reason *not* to use NNTP?
(Don't get me wrong -- I enjoy this site a great deal and appreciate
the work that goes into it, even if I see everything a week or two
late.)
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NEXT>9436
PREVIOUS>9421
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:55 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 05, 1998 at 20:17:42:
In Reply to: [7]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
59th Street, Manhattan and Brooklyn (N, R)
Broadway, Brooklyn and Queens (G)
Lexington Avenue -- 59th St (N, R) , 53rd (E, F) 42nd & 23rd (6)
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NEXT>9433
PREVIOUS>9424
POSTER>Daniel
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:00:57 1998
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Posted by Daniel on February 05, 1998 at 22:02:16:
In Reply to: [7]For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Steve on
February 05, 1998 at 19:22:28:
I know I'm not Todd, but that's an interesting route... One problem:
The Williamsburg Bridge is shutting down sometime in 1999 for about 6
months... Then, this line would be virtually impossible to
run...momentarily albeit...
Since you mentioned this, I wonder if anybody remembers the route the
E train ran years ago from 179th St. to Rockaway Park... A LONG train
ride that could be done by the Q3 (I believe... or is it the Q10) and
the Old Rockaway shuttle that ran through the WYE...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO...be careful!
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:00 1998
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Posted by Nick on February 05, 1998 at 22:20:52:
In Reply to: [8]Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO posted by ALEX on
February 05, 1998 at 15:34:45:
For both of you...be careful giving out your addresses..it's kinda
risky-Nick
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NEXT>9445
PREVIOUS>9402
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:03 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 05, 1998 at 23:17:42:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Steve B
on February 05, 1998 at 15:29:15:
The 9-car limitation on the 3 train results from a lack of yard
capacity, not because of the short platform at 145 Street.
I'd imagine that the exit restrictions on the 3 at 145 Street are less
of a bother than those at South Ferry. There aren't any attractions
near 145 Street, so presumably most of the people exiting at that
station are regulars and are aware of the situation. On the other
hand, the 1/9 to South Ferry likely gets a significant number of
tourists, who may not now of the exit restrictions.
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NEXT>9446
PREVIOUS>9430
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:06 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 05, 1998 at 23:23:52:
In Reply to: [8]For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Steve on
February 05, 1998 at 19:22:28:
What will the new slogan be - "Ride the subway's Great Circle Route"
:-) Seriously, though, I don't see why this route would even be
proposed. The connection from the Williamsburg Bridge to the 6th
Avenue line hasn't been used since Chrystie Street opened, except for
the short-lived KK service. I suppose there could be another
explanation, but that sounds to me like the routing isn't particularly
practical.
Of course, there's another possibility - route the new train onto the
E line after the 63rd Street connection, and it will end up
(literally) on top of where it started!!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Walter Wol
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R33 exterior plans for scale modeling
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:10 1998
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Posted by Walter Wol on February 05, 1998 at 23:26:25:
No luck through the MTA. Can someone supply me with dimensions or
plans?
Thank you.
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NEXT>9462
PREVIOUS>9386
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:13 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 23:47:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Eric B on February 05, 1998 at 12:38:14:
Here's my prediction on what happens if the bridge closes while 63rd
St. Line is under construction...
BConey Island-Pacific Street
D205th Street-34th Street/6th Avenue
M-terminates at Chambers Street ALL TIMES
Q-57th Street/Broadway-Coney Island via D Line after DeKalb (express
57th-Canal)
S1-21st Street-57th/7th
S2-57th/6th-Grand Street (LOCAL)
Obviously, the M would still terminate at Myrtle Avenue evenings,
nights and weekends.
During late night hours, the Q could continue operating in place of
S1, to 21st/Queensbridge, since it would run every 20 minutes.
Unfortunately, you can't do that all the time, because only one track
will be available during construction on 63rd Street. This is also
going to make things tight at 57th/7th, but such is life...
The one thing a bridge closure would do is reopen 57th/6th 24 hours.
Under the current plan, it is slated to be closed from about 1 am
until 5 am or so each night...
The drawbacks are several:
--no added M service along 4th Avenue in Brooklyn during rush hours.
This probably means the N will have to go local, further slowing
service down on this line...
--no rush hour express service for the D in the Bronx, unless the C is
returned to its current rouoting to replace the B, which is possible.
The A would then have to make two extra stops, which is really not
that big of a deal.
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NEXT>9520
PREVIOUS>9429
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:15 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 06, 1998 at 00:21:55:
In Reply to: [8]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
Gee -- I guess I need to get back to NYC more often!
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NEXT>9478
PREVIOUS>9426
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:17 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 06, 1998 at 00:43:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
in re Georgetown Jct, B&O(near Silver Spring)m the third track is not
mainline trackage but vestige of the diverging Georgetown Branch, see
Impossible Challenge by H. Harwood for history and map. IMHO, the REAL
problrm is that in an early 90's modification an intermediate signal
location was eliminated, thus allowing the scenario you described
which I believe to be likely. in any case very sad.
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NEXT>9444
PREVIOUS>9420
POSTER>Fitz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:19 1998
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Posted by Fitz on February 06, 1998 at 02:43:02:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by David
Pirmann on February 04, 1998 at 23:10:22:
Found this one in Cunningham & DeHart's "History of the NYC Subway
System".
It reads:"On May 22, 1975,two R-27 trains collided on a center service
track on the RR Astoria Line. One (car?) fell into the street,but no
passenger injuries occurred".
I remember hearing something about this,but I don't think it got the
same amount of "press" that the latest one did.
Anyone have details?
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NEXT>9485
PREVIOUS>9413
POSTER>Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:21 1998
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Posted by Albert on February 06, 1998 at 03:35:50:
In Reply to: [7]Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by rufus on February
05, 1998 at 16:15:27:
Living here in New York City I still find the NYC subway still the
best I have been, I use 5 days a week. Even with all its troubles, few
cities around the world have subway systems that run 24 hours. And I
have been on subways in cities such as Chicago, San Francisco, Paris,
London, Rome, and Milano. The ones in Italy have horribly lit and
unclean stations.
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NEXT>9441
PREVIOUS>9417
POSTER>Al
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:24 1998
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Posted by Al on February 06, 1998 at 03:59:43:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Michael B. on February 02,
1998 at 11:24:29:
I sure did, I think the "7" only had the right color.
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NEXT>9447
PREVIOUS>9440
POSTER>Al
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:27 1998
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Posted by Al on February 06, 1998 at 04:18:54:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Steve B on February 05,
1998 at 18:20:58:
I think Caz said this, "Why don't they go hijack a plane like everyone
else?"
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9422
POSTER>Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:31 1998
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Posted by Albert on February 06, 1998 at 04:22:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Map- I saw on on a Train posted by Eric B on
February 05, 1998 at 19:10:31:
I saw the new map also on the R train. To me they really look nice. I
like the way tou can see all of Staten Island with its SIRT map. And
also I like the way you can now see all of Queens.
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NEXT>9448
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Train Trestle over 23rd Street?
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:36 1998
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Posted by Albert on February 06, 1998 at 04:32:38:
I was passing under an overpass on 23 Street a couple of weeks ago.
This overpass spans 23rd Street in Manhattan between two avenues, near
the Chelsea Piers (don't remember the avenues). Can anyone tell me if
this an old subway or freight train trestle/tracks or if its actually
a ramp going to/fro the Lincoln Tunnel. It was at night so it was hard
to make out this structure besides the fact I was passing under this
overpass in a car.
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NEXT>9480
PREVIOUS>9438
POSTER>GarfieldA
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:39 1998
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Posted by GarfieldA on February 06, 1998 at 08:24:02:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Peter Rosa
on February 05, 1998 at 09:11:14:
I don't think the T.A will bring those cars back to life. In a
interview
the TA president told a news reporter that the cars and others like
them will be discontinued with the replacement of new cars.
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NEXT>9476
PREVIOUS>9432
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:42 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 06, 1998 at 08:30:39:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Peter
Rosa on February 05, 1998 at 23:17:42:
Speaking of tourists and South Ferry, my aunt had an experience while
visiting New York in 1959. She was on her way to Battery Park to catch
the ferry to the Statue of Liberty, and while she doesn't remember any
specific details, she said it took three attempts on three trains
(probably Lo-Vs) to get off. A conductor finally explained to her that
she had to be in one of the first five cars if she wanted to get off
at South Ferry.
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NEXT>9451
PREVIOUS>9433
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:47 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 06, 1998 at 09:00:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Peter Rosa
on February 05, 1998 at 23:23:52:
That is my preference, due to the great roll sign combo that would
result:
Parsons/Archer
to
Parsons/Archer
via
Bridge
and
Tunnel
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9441
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:51 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 06, 1998 at 09:10:33:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pelham 1-2-3 posted by Al on February 06, 1998 at
04:18:54:
To which Mr. Gray replies, "Cuz we're afraid of flying! Now, I'm
telling you, clear out, or I'll shoot your ass off, ya lard!"
"The hell with you, I'm coming on board!"
"I warned you, stupid!"
Gunfire.
Caz goes down.
Yet another exchange involving Mr. Gray (Hector Elizondo):
Passenger: "May I get by?"
Gray: "Nah, you don't want to go in there."
Passesnger: "Suppose I do anyway?"
Gray: "Then I'll shoot your pee-pee off."
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NEXT>9474
PREVIOUS>9443
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train Trestle over 23rd Street?
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:54 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 06, 1998 at 09:37:27:
In Reply to: [8]Train Trestle over 23rd Street? posted by Albert on
February 06, 1998 at 04:32:38:
What you saw are remnants of the old West Side freight line. It ran
above the street and sometimes through commercial buildings, from the
yards west of Penn Station to a terminal about where the Holland
Tunnel entrance is now located. Over the years, the southern terminal
was cut back to around Bank Street, with most of the remaining
customers being food wholesalers in the Gansevoort Market area. During
the construction of the Javits Center, the line was temporarily
interrupted, long enough for the remainin customers to switch to truck
transportation, and it never reopened. There have been a couple ideas
about resuming service, but nothing's ever come of them and today
parts of the line's physical structure have been removed.
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NEXT>9488
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Penn Station Map?
DATE>Feb 10 17:01:56 1998
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Posted by George on February 06, 1998 at 09:47:04:
Does anyone have a map showing the tracks under Penn Station, for
Amtrak, NJ Transit, and LIRR, including platforms and access to the
various tunnels?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions And we Have 2 winners1
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:01 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 10:02:20:
In Reply to: [7]Two Quiz Questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
And the winners are...
Ed Sachs
David J. Greenberger
And Timothy Speer gave a correct answer not envisioned by the
Educational Testing Service -- Subway Aptitude Test (SAT) division.
Once again:
1) the D train: 7th Avenue
1')the R train: 36 St.
2) 5th Avenue.
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NEXT>9463
PREVIOUS>9446
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:04 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 10:09:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Todd
Glickman on February 06, 1998 at 09:00:21:
This was originally on the board a couple of weeks ago as a joke I
made and Todd G. added to. I wonder if it spread like a rumor from,
"Here's a funny one I heard..."
to
"You know what I hear they're doing?..."
to
"That's a great idea...Let's do it."
That would be incredible if a bad joke became MTA policy! But the sign
would be great, wouldn't it. Now if they could just trot out the old
Triplex with the rectangular lit-up glass side signs saying "Bridge"
in green and "Tunnel" light yellow, we could have a train that lights
up like a pinball machine.
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NEXT>9564
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Crazy route from 1930s?
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:07 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 06, 1998 at 10:09:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Daniel on
February 05, 1998 at 22:02:16:
I'm not sure of this one, but I've heard stories that during the
1930s, the BMT ran "sunny summer weekend" specials from Chambers St.
to Franklin Ave. via the Sea Beach and Brighton lines (running through
Stillwell Ave. station).
Before the Chrystie St connection opened, it would have been possible
to run a continuous loop route via the Nassau Loop and Coney Island.
Now, what would you put on the roll signs for that? No terminals!
(Come to think of it, doesn't London have a "Circle Line" which
operates in a loop? And in the 1970s, Chicago CTA operated a "Loop
Shuttle" which just ran all day around the Loop.)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision: Elevated Lines, What are they Good For?
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:09 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 10:46:26:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by THE EXPRESS
TRAIN on February 05, 1998 at 15:44:07:
The elevated lines in New York are certainly not the best choice for a
rail line, but at least they are there. Who is going to find the money
to, for example, put the entire Flushing line underground? If there
was money for even 10 miles worth of subway construction, it would go
to build some new line or some line that was about to collapse.
Sometimes elevated lines can be built to not look too bad, like the
ones in Washington and Baltimore, but my main point about NYC elevated
lines is that at least they are there, they provide service, and they
are not dangerous. They may be ugly and noisy. but they are all we've
got in many parts of the city.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9340
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New Subway book
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:13 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 10:49:13:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New Subway book posted by Kenny from CT on
February 04, 1998 at 20:12:24:
You can order it from Barnes and Noble on their Web page, which may
be:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com.
The easiest way to find B&N is to bring up Yahoo and search for
"Barnes" and "Noble". That's what I do, which is why I don't really
know the address.
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NEXT>9457
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>STEVE
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>CAN YOU DO THIS?
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:16 1998
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Posted by STEVE on February 06, 1998 at 10:57:17:
LET ME SEE HOW SMART YOU GUYS ARE. CAN YOU TELL ME THE VOLTAGE OF THE
THIRD RAILS IN THE WORLD'S 5 LARGEST SUBWAY SYSTEMS.
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NEXT>9461
PREVIOUS>9427
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:18 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 06, 1998 at 11:01:27:
In Reply to: [8]Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Eric B on
February 05, 1998 at 20:09:28:
Some bar in Penn by the LIRR had a "FRED" (Foto Realistic Electronic
Display) a while back, but I think it's gone. Blue Leds are a
developing technology still. It's going to take a few more years for
it to mature. Believe me, the semiconductor industry is pushing for it
- it may lead to a better laptop display among other things.
The Yellow displays truely suck, but the new AEG one in GCT amazed me
and a few skeptical friends. You really CAN see it from any angle,
although I've noticed a slight shift in the background tint as you
move around. But I'm nostalgic for the old "Flipper" display, even
though the new one beats it hands down.
Anyone know if the LIRR is going to get one?? (wait, It's the LIRR,
what was I thinking...)
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NEXT>9458
PREVIOUS>9455
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: CAN YOU DO THIS?
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:20 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 06, 1998 at 11:06:52:
In Reply to: [8]CAN YOU DO THIS? posted by STEVE on February 06, 1998
at 10:57:17:
It runs from 600 to 750 on just about any system but Bart. Although
there may be a specified voltage - it's hardly a constant. There is an
awful lot of variation along the rail, due to trains, substation
differences, etc. I'm not sure of Moscow's system, but just about
every other one would use somewhere in the above range, usually around
650 or so. Also note that they may "bump" the voltage up a bit. I
believe the LIRR was 600V and then bumped to 750..
And hey, turn off that caps lock (or simply note your system can't do
lowercase. IBM mainframe??)
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NEXT>9477
PREVIOUS>9457
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: CAN YOU DO THIS?
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:23 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 06, 1998 at 11:20:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: CAN YOU DO THIS? posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 06, 1998 at 11:06:52:
So, what's the voltage on BART?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions And we Have 2 winners
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:26 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 06, 1998 at 11:24:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Two Quiz Questions And we Have 2 winners1 posted
by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 10:02:20:
I was stuck in a paradigm -- I was thinking it had to be a trunk line
avenue, even though that wouldn't exclude subway stops on other
crosstown lines.
Thanks for the acknowledgement!
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NEXT>9468
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:29 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 06, 1998 at 11:30:44:
The B and C northern terminal swap has been officially announced on
the NYCT Web Site (subway service notices page):
B and C lines Switch Places Above 145 St (Uptown and Bronx).
Effective Sunday, March 1, 1998
B service will travel to Bedford Park Blvd during rush hours and will
travel to 145 St middays and evenings until 9 p.m.
C service will travel to 168 St until 11 p.m. nightly.
Service below 145 St will not change.
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NEXT>9464
PREVIOUS>9456
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:31 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 06, 1998 at 12:38:52:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by
Philip Nasadowski on February 06, 1998 at 11:01:27:
What exactly was this FRED system? Did it use LED's?
BTW, speaking of the yellow side signs, I'm surprised nonone mentioned
the ones that are appearing on NJT. They are the opposite of the
R-44/46/110, with lit letters on a black background. This is more
visible. Also, while we're on the subject, there's Westchester's
Orions, which use the yellow sign on the side.\
But anyway, I can't wait for full color capability.
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NEXT>9498
PREVIOUS>9435
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:32 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 06, 1998 at 12:46:50:
In Reply to: [7]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Mike Klufas on February 05, 1998 at 23:47:31:
What I was trying to ask is whether the Q could terminate at 57th
while the shuttle does. Can one use one track, on the other use the
other?, or would the Q require a two track terminal? And didn't
someone mention some barrier placed so shuttle trains couldn't go
south of the station?
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NEXT>9472
PREVIOUS>9451
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:35 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 06, 1998 at 12:49:42:
In Reply to: [8]For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Steve on
February 05, 1998 at 19:22:28:
If you assume for the moment that the primary purpose of this routing
is to get people to and from Manhattan, then it isn't so crazy. You're
adding another route to get to/from Manhattan along Queens Blvd. I
suppose NYC Transit is assuming that the train will normally be empty
in the off-peak direction once it leaves Manhattan. TO go from
terminal to terminal would be ridiculous, however, unless you're a
railfan!
Now, if this were to be true, what happens to the Q? Where does it
terminate?
--Mark
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NEXT>9559
PREVIOUS>9461
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:37 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 06, 1998 at 12:57:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Eric
B on February 06, 1998 at 12:38:52:
I'm for rollup on the headend and electronic signs on sides (sorry
train operators). I like the NJT signs Yellow on Black, was surprised
on a recent ride to New Brunswick.
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NEXT>9533
PREVIOUS>9414
POSTER>Puxatawney Phil
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:41 1998
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Posted by Puxatawney Phil on February 06, 1998 at 13:02:44:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by Todd Glickman on
February 05, 1998 at 14:49:31:
Excuse me, Mr Meteorologist, but I'd like a word with you on this one
:)
Phil
GroundHog Atmospheric Analysis Division
National Geographic Society
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Voltages...
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:43 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 06, 1998 at 13:25:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: CAN YOU DO THIS? posted by Timothy Speer on
February 06, 1998 at 11:20:12:
1KV DC
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M.Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions + Other Stuff
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:46 1998
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Posted by Carl M.Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 14:26:43:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Two Quiz Questions posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 05, 1998 at 20:17:42:
The G didn't count because, while a Brooklyn station is called
"Broadway", the other is "Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Heights", and even
the Flushing station is called "74-St.-Broadway".
And I am sorry to admit I should have said "the avenue with stations
ONLY at the following 4 streets".
That's why I don't work for Alex Trebeck.
Interestingly, most Broadway stations have nothing to do with the
famous Broadway. There's:
o 74-Broadway (7), Broadway (N), in Queens,
o Broadway (G), Broadway-E. New York (A,C), Broadway-Eastern Parkway
(J,L,Z), in Brooklyn,
o East Broadway (F), in Manhattan,
and finally Broadway-Nassau (A,C) and Broadway-Lafayette (B,D,F,Q) at
the not-as-famous parts of the famous BroadWAY (as people talking
about the The-a-tah call it).
Next on Oprah: The two spellings of Beverley Rd. (D) / Beverly Road
(2). Which is correct???? And why was the Brighton one built when the
Cortelyou Rd. station is so close that the train is entering one
before it has left the other.
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NEXT>9475
PREVIOUS>9460
POSTER>The Mind Scrambler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:49 1998
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Posted by The Mind Scrambler on February 06, 1998 at 14:37:59:
In Reply to: [7]B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice posted by Todd
Glickman on February 06, 1998 at 11:30:44:
That sucks! Now, during rush hour, I would have to wait for the B
train longer... I take the train at 20 Avenue... It already is a
headache... Now, it's going to be a migraine!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>JAMES
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me....And Alex
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:53 1998
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Posted by JAMES on February 06, 1998 at 14:54:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: help me.... posted by JAMES on February 04, 1998
at 16:56:28:
Hi, Marek. Alex made one tiny error. The "5" train goes from Bowling
Green
to Dyre Avenue.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9403
POSTER>ALEX ROCCO
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO
DATE>Feb 10 17:02:56 1998
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Posted by ALEX ROCCO on February 06, 1998 at 14:58:25:
In Reply to: [7]Re: help me.... FOR ALEX ROCCO posted by Marek Poustka
on February 05, 1998 at 08:04:23:
HI, MAREK. BEFORE I GO LET ME CORRECT MYSELF. THE "A" STOPS AT
LEFFERTS BLVD AND NOT ROCKAWAY PARKWAY AND THE "M" TRAIN IS FROM
CHAMBERS STREET TO MYRTLE AVENUE AS WELL AS THE FIRST ONE I GAVE YOU.
BYE!
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NEXT>9595
PREVIOUS>9241
POSTER>Charles Webb
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:00 1998
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Posted by Charles Webb on February 06, 1998 at 15:05:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Dan Lawrence on February 02,
1998 at 18:44:57:
I have two things to say. first can you give me a description of the
subway
cars in the cities of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. And what's
the deal with that Steve guy who keeps getting so sarcastic because
you request for him to take off his caps lock? It's not like you're
asking him to jump in front of a train. Steve, be reasonable!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9463
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:02 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 06, 1998 at 15:08:19:
In Reply to: [8]Re: For Todd G. - Crazy new route posted by Daniel on
February 05, 1998 at 22:02:16:
How about the 1979 C train that went all the way from the Bronx to the
Rockaways, the only train to ever run in 4 boros! I would love to see
a subway map with this route on it!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Andrew Byler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Passenger Car Buffing Strength (was Re: Traction questions)
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:07 1998
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Posted by Andrew Byler on February 06, 1998 at 15:35:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
Carl,
A few additional comments about push-pull operation are needed.
Passenger cars in America are built to a very high buffing strength
(end impact capacity) because of the danger of rear-end collisions,
push-pull operations, etc. with very heavy engines and frieght trains.
However, this strength will only go so far - its good for low speed
collisions only. High speed collisons are designed to be absorbed by
scrunch points in the cars and engines where the carbody or engine
cowl crumples to take up the impact energy at a theoretically safe
location (directly behind the cab in an engine and in the vestibules
of a car). But this crumpling is an attempt at a "safe" totaling of
the car or engine for potential survivability, not necessarily actual
surivivability.
I have my doubts that had the commuter train hit with the engine, less
carnage would have ensued. One need only look at a disaster like the
Chase, MD Amtrak wreck where the Amtrak train plowed into the light
conrail enignes. The front engine literally exploded, and was not
readily locatable. And despite there being another AEM-7 behind it,
and an unoccupied Amfleet car behind that, 16 people were killed
(mostly in the second and third cars). The impact speed was 105 mph
(the engineer had thrown the train into emergency while going 128
mph), while the Conrail engines were either stationary or going
forward slowly, thus the closing speed was 105 mph. For the MARC
commuter train - Amtrak collision, similarly heavy engines would have
been colliding, there would have been a similarly high closing speed
in excess of 100 mph, and similar carnage. There is far too much
energy at that speed to have a "safe" wreck.
The real method for preventing wrecks is correct track and signal
work. If you compare the old layout of Gunpow interlocking, where the
Chase wreck ocurred you will notice a major difference between
Pennsy's layout, and Amtrak's. On Pennsy's, Track 1 (the outer,
southeastern track) ended at a bumper, with a crossover a few hundred
feet before this to allow acess to Track 2 to cross the river. On
Amtrak's, Track 1 simply ends at a single switch which joins it to
Track 2. Pennsy's idea was that freight trains out of Baltimore would
be unable to get in the way of passenger trains, even if they ran a
signal as happened, and would instead end up hitting a bumper at the
edge of the river, kind of a like a run-away truck ramp, as throwing
the crossover switches between Tracks 1 and 2 was only possible if the
signals were also changed (hence the term interlocking). Amtrak took
this away, and the light engines simply split the switch, irregardless
of the signals. This being so, Amtrak was certainly somewhat negligent
in this accident, evne though its personnel were not directly
responsible. With the MARC accident, signals were removed in an
interlocking layout revision from before the cross-over that should
have been in place in order to run a safe railroad. This could have
still been prevented had something as simple as Cab-signals been in
place.
In any case, push-pull operations are no more inherently dangerous
than using diesel or electrical multiple unit trains.
Andy Byler
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NEXT>9521
PREVIOUS>9448
POSTER>Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train Trestle over 23rd Street?
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:14 1998
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Posted by Albert on February 06, 1998 at 17:40:45:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Train Trestle over 23rd Street? posted by Peter
Rosa on February 06, 1998 at 09:37:27:
Thank you Peter, for the info, I will pass this info to my friend and
brother for they were also wondering what the stricture is.
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NEXT>9494
PREVIOUS>9468
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:16 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 17:54:51:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice posted by The
Mind Scrambler on February 06, 1998 at 14:37:59:
I don't quite understand. Todd didn't say there would be fewer B
trains, just that they will terminate in Manhattan at a slightly
different place on weekdays. Could you explain how that affects
Brooklyn service?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9445
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:18 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 06, 1998 at 20:42:46:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 148 St. - Lenox Terminal Station posted by Steve B
on February 05, 1998 at 15:29:15:
All the cars assigned to the 1/9 lines now have posters in every car,
in multiple languages, telling people they need to use the first five
cars to exit at South Ferry. I strongly doubt similar posters will
ever be seen advising people about 145 St./Lenox, since that just
isn't a "touristy" spot.
Actually, why _don't_ they lengthen the platforms at 145th St./Lenox?
Is the ridership there so low that the MTA feels the expense is not
justified? Surely there is enough room north of the 142nd St.
interlocking to extend the platforms into, isn't there?
Another curious fact regarding the "148th St./Lenox Terminal" station
is that it is really at 149th St., not at 148th at all. Why do they
call it "148th St." - is it to avoid confusion with the 149th St.
stations in the Bronx?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9458
POSTER>Walter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: CAN YOU DO THIS?
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:20 1998
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Posted by Walter on February 06, 1998 at 20:46:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: CAN YOU DO THIS? posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 06, 1998 at 11:06:52:
The Moscow subways run on 825 Volts DC (under-running, third-rail
shoes).
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NEXT>9484
PREVIOUS>9437
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:22 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 06, 1998 at 21:03:39:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Michael Lyons on
February 05, 1998 at 20:00:55:
A few corrections or at least clarifications.
First - All NYCT cars have 4 115 Horsepower traction motors with 1
exception. On the R-110B, the middle car of each 3 car set has no
traction motors. The last cars to vary from 4 traction motors were the
R-9s (R-1s through R-9s). The #1 truck had 2 190 Horsepower motors
while the #2 truck had none.
Second - When originally built, the R-46s had hostler controllers at
both ends of every car including the cab units. They were push button
controllers which allowed the train to be moved in switching or series
mode only. For braking there were 4 positions, min brake, med brake,
full service and emergency. With a little practice, it was possible to
operate from a hostler with as much ease as the master controller.
After ovewrhaul in 1990, a different type of controller was installed
on the #1 end of the B (ODD) numbered cars. They were all (but one)
removed when the R-46s were linked into 4-car units. Currently there
is only one R-46 with a hostler(formerly car #1209 - I don't remember
it's current #). It is currently assigned to the G line and is the
only AB R-46 unit in service. The R-44 fleet NEVER had hostler
controllers.
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NEXT>9492
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dr Testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Speed in Septas Tunnels
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:24 1998
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Posted by Dr Testa on February 06, 1998 at 21:15:18:
What is the maximum speed for a Broad Street Express train?
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NEXT>9481
PREVIOUS>9444
POSTER>aaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:28 1998
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Posted by aaron on February 06, 1998 at 22:26:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by John B.
Bredin on February 05, 1998 at 10:38:07:
I recall that a Lake bound set of Budd cars took the curve at
Wabash-Lake
too fast, derailed and fell off the viaduct. A car dangled off the "L"
down to Lake Street. This was when the line ran to 95th St/Dan Ryan. I
don't believe their was a collision involved.
P.S.
Please provide the addresses for the CTA railfan sites!! The only ones
I
know is www.transitchicago.com and the Illinois Railway museum sites.
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NEXT>9575
PREVIOUS>9480
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:35 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 07, 1998 at 00:02:08:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by aaron on
February 06, 1998 at 22:26:03:
I found some more information about the Waubash and Randolph incident
on February 14, 1977. It happened after an operator made the requred
stop at a station then proceeded under a restrictive signal. The
signal system restricted train operation to 15 MPH and caused a low
speed impact into the train ahead. After the impact the operator did
reapply power to the 8 car train and 2500 KW of traction power pushed
the train into the stopped train ahead, causing the center of the
train to lift while on the sharp curve. 3 cars derailed and were left
hangin over the edge . After the accident siganl modifications were
made and additional structure was installed
(Source "CTA at 45" by Krambles and Peterson pg 116)
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NEXT>9619
PREVIOUS>9404
POSTER>Jim
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Security in Septa's Subway system
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:41 1998
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Posted by Jim on February 07, 1998 at 00:34:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Security in Septa's Subway system posted by Dr
Testa on February 05, 1998 at 15:42:31:
There's a lot around, that think like you, but, there may be lots of
pictures, knowing how SEPTA people, I don't want to use the word WORK,
act or perform, don't count on anybody WATCHIN.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>David L.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>42 St. and 8th Ave lower level
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:43 1998
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Posted by David L. on February 07, 1998 at 01:04:45:
I remember someone asking about the 42 Street lower level station on
the 8th Ave line. I just saw the movie "Ghost" in Channel 11 and there
were quite a few scenes in that station. The tilework looks very
different compared to other IND tilework. The movie even showed
cigarette machine in the station. Did cigarette machines actually
exist in subway ststions?
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NEXT>9497
PREVIOUS>9478
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:49 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07, 1998 at 05:30:40:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
How is the train actually controlled in a "push" operation? If the
front car is a non-powered trailer, it wouldn't have any controls in
it, right? But the train can't be driven from a rear-facing engine
cab, the operator wouldn't see signals, the track in front of the
train, anything. Is a remote controller for the engine mounted in the
non-powered front car? Does it give the full range of control that an
operator in a pulling engine would have? Or perhaps, does the operator
sit in the engine in back, and watch a TV display from a front-mounted
camera?
The possibility of your crash scenario has been confirmed by someone
who seems to know, but that doesn't answer the question of why the
papers never mentioned it. Clearly, they were being fed information by
parties who had made up their minds without looking at all the facts.
It is realy not the papers' fault (except possibly for describing a
line as being two-track when a photo clearly shows otherwise). But the
agenda of the newspaper's source(s) should be questioned.
Finally, this type of accident could never happen with the signalling
system used in the subway, right? Once the train was on the section of
track on which it could hit/be hit by the second train, allowing that
second train in there would have been a "forbidden" move at the
interlocking, wouldn't it?
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NEXT>9486
PREVIOUS>9439
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 17:03:56 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07, 1998 at 08:30:44:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 15:14:14:
Yesterday (Friday 2/6) at about 6 PM, all northbound service on the 2
and 3 lines was terminating at 96th St. due to what was reported as "a
stuck signal at 135th St." This would seem to be wholly unrelated to
the planned construction work; I just hope it is not representative of
what can be expected on this line when the construction is finished.
Could this "sticking" (of a relay coil? of the stop arm?) be due to
the water leakage that the construction is supposed to correct? Or is
it just a result of the fact the equipment on the line is pretty old?
Even under the best of circumstances, the Lenox Ave. seems relatively
slow, since the "express" makes local stops from 110th St. up, plus it
spends some of its time traveling east/west rather than north/south.
Nevertheless, according to the official MTA schedules, travel time
between 149th St./Grand Concourse in the Bronx and Nevins St. in
Brooklyn is only 2 minutes longer on the #2 line than it is on the #5
line. How can that be?
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NEXT>9543
PREVIOUS>9485
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:01 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 07, 1998 at 09:41:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Dan Schwartz on
February 07, 1998 at 08:30:44:
Dan--
The answer is very simple. Where does the number 5 travel? The
Lexington Avenue Lilne. The most overcrowded line in the system.
When I used the Lex line during rush hours about 7 years ago, it took
a long time for northbound number 4 and 5 trains to get to Grand
Central. They would pull out of 14th Street, and wouldn't accelerate
very much. By 23rd Street, they slowed to a crawl. By 28th, it was
stop and go to Grand Central.
I don't think that has changed too much.
Michael
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NEXT>9496
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Brooklyn IRT H Line??
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:04 1998
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Posted by steve L on February 07, 1998 at 09:49:34:
In Reply to: [8]Brooklyn IRT posted by subway-buff on February 05,
1998 at 11:36:19:
where is the H Line ,,in Manhattan
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NEXT>9519
PREVIOUS>9449
POSTER>Steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Penn Station Map?
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:07 1998
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Posted by Steve L on February 07, 1998 at 10:00:45:
In Reply to: [8]Penn Station Map? posted by George on February 06,
1998 at 09:47:04:
please contact me ,privately ,,christof@webtv.net
What exactly ,are you looking for
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NEXT>9500
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mike B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:10 1998
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Posted by Mike B on February 07, 1998 at 10:06:40:
Growing up riding the R1-R9's, I seem to recall a pole that was
directly opposite the Motorman's cab next to the little jumpseat. It
had what appeared to be a gear at the bottom, and there was a hinge in
the middle so it was actually in 2 pieces. While riding the trains you
would sometimes hear the 2 sections clank.
Does anyone else remember this?? And if so, what was it??
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NEXT>9495
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Point to Point (Long Post)
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:16 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 07, 1998 at 11:46:37:
What do all you transit buffs think of this concept. Why do all buses
run on a linear route, stopping every few blocks along the way. Why
don't they run point to point -- from the "central square" of a
neighborhood to a hub and an important destination, like an airline.
Imagine an airline that flew from Boston to Washington by landing and
taking off at every city along the way -- Providence, Hartford, New
York, Newark, etc. It would take forever. So planes fly directly from
one city to another, or into a "hub" where customers change to other
flights.
I had this thought while waiting for a bus in Brooklyn -- the free
transfer had caused me to board a bus every now and then, just for the
heck of it. The time required to travel from my house to downtown
Brooklyn is nearly an hour -- about what it takes to walk that
distance. With frequent stops and congested streets, most buses are
similarly slow. A long wait at a bus stop is followed by a long wait
at a light directly in front of a bus stop, followed by a short ride
to the next bus stop. Its madening.
Three bus routes ply my neighborhood, all of which pass through Bartel
Prichard Square. Having multiple stops in the neighborhood could save
you a short walk, but only if the bus you need to take happens to be
the one that stops near your house. Otherwise, you need to walk to the
square anyway. You can stop anywhere along these routes, but otherwise
you need to change buses. And with ridership down from 40 years ago,
and headways long, the wait for the bus adds intermedibly to the trip
if you need to change. Aside from buses which substitute for subways
on the outer rim of the city, its a wonder anyone rides them. In fact,
most riders appear to be elderly and teens, those who can't walk
and/or perhaps do not feel comfortable underground.
Is another alternative possible? What if every bus route ran for no
more than 30 minutes point to point, at (say) no more than a 15 minute
headway. That puts four buses on the road, with perhaps one laying
over to ensure a timely departure in case of delay. Three or four
routes would leave from the central square of each neighborhood, run
direct to a hub (by the fastest route), and on to a destination --
such a Downtown Brooklyn, the beach, a high employment industrial
area, Prospect Park and related institutions, Brooklyn College, etc.
One might have to walk an extra couple of blocks, and the range of
destinations accessible without a transfer would be smaller than it is
with buses which stop along every corner, but walking is healthy and
the range of destinations it is pretty limited anyway. At least you
could get somewhere. The buses could be especially useful on crosstown
trips, since most subways -- and most major streets -- run into
Manahattan, than north -- south through the central business district.
Come to think of it, why is the TA the only bus company in the world
that doesn't offer to run charters during off peak hours as an
additional source of income? Why not allow a group, say a church group
or club, to rent a bus for an outing or shopping trip -- with direct
service? Or, why not rent the buses to the best bus drivers for use as
charters, as a source of additional off-duty income and a reward to
the most dillegent?
Opps, I got carried away. Forgot I worked for the government. The way
things are done is the way things are done, and with management,
community board, mayoral, gubanitorial, city council, borough
president, and state legislature approval required, along with
environmental impact statements, major investment studies, uniform
land use reviews, legal challenges under various statues, lawyers
fees, consultants fees, and a whole new union contract-- just forget
it.
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NEXT>9589
PREVIOUS>9329
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 and Lenox Station
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:20 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 07, 1998 at 12:41:31:
In Reply to: [8]148 and Lenox Station posted by subway-buff on
February 04, 1998 at 16:23:23:
The 148th St./Lenox Terminal Station really is a yard turned into a
station. It is partially exposed to the outside, with a makeshift roof
overhead but steel wire above the walls. It has only one entrance with
a green globe showing it's a 24 hour station (even though bus service
is used overnight). And yes, it is at 149th St. and Adam Clayton
Powell Blvd., not 148 St. But I guess since 148 St. separates the
subway yard operations from a giant bus garage that takes up its whole
block between 147 & 148, someone mislabled the train station as 148
St. One more note...the new subway maps no longer call the station
Lenox Terminal. (After all, it isn't on Lenox Av.) With the trend to
call terminal stations by their neighborhood name, the map now reads
"Harlem - 148 St."
By the way, there are plenty of the new maps available inside the
front door to MTA headquarters on Madison Av near 45 St. Even during
off hours, you can use the left door, pick up a few maps (all the
borough bus maps are there too) and be on your way, without bothering
the night security guard.
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NEXT>9576
PREVIOUS>9479
POSTER>KWAMIE TURNER
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed in Septas Tunnels
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:25 1998
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Posted by KWAMIE TURNER on February 07, 1998 at 13:22:32:
In Reply to: [7]Speed in Septas Tunnels posted by Dr Testa on February
06, 1998 at 21:15:18:
THE MAX SPEED ON ALL THE SUBWAY LINES IS 45 MPH. ON SOME LINES THEY
GET UP TO 55.
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NEXT>9516
PREVIOUS>9289
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC low floor buses
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:28 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 07, 1998 at 14:23:32:
In Reply to: [8]NYC low floor buses posted by Lefty on February 02,
1998 at 12:25:45:
I rode these buses in Montreal last winter and they really do a great
job. They seem to hold more passengers, I'm sure the low floor was a
big help for senior citizens and the overall look of the bus was much
more futuristic than those we see here in NYC. At the time about 1/5
of Montreal buses were of this design with some lines (e.g. Edouard
Montpetit) having all of these buses and others having none or a few.
One note...Some passengers have to ride backwards because the floor is
so low their seat faces the rear so their legs rest behind a
wheelwell.
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NEXT>9541
PREVIOUS>9475
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:33 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 07, 1998 at 15:07:35:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice posted by Carl
M. Rabbin on February 06, 1998 at 17:54:51:
Beacause now the B line will be a longer run- having to go all the way
up to Bedford Park and back- so ti wil be an extra 20 minutes or so
for eachg round-trip!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9490
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Point to Point (Long Post)
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:37 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 07, 1998 at 15:16:54:
In Reply to: [8]Point to Point (Long Post) posted by Larry Littlefield
on February 07, 1998 at 11:46:37:
You're quite right about long bus lines that have to stop every couple
of blocks. But since buses so often are used by senior citizens who
either fear the subways or don't want to walk up & down the stairs,
many NYC bus lines seem to exist for seniors or folks who don't have
to get anyplace in a hurry.
The solution is to make more bus lines LIMITED. That seems to be a
trend slowly catching on. Every new borough bus map seems to advertise
"New Limited service on the ___ line." For those unfamiliar, limited
buses only stop at major intersections, usually where another bus line
or a subway line cross their path. For those of us who don't mind
walking a few blocks to speed our trip, limited buses make sense. And
every limited line also has regular local service running for the
seniors who choose not to walk & have enough time to make every stop.
But I think that anytime there is frequent service on a given bus
line, or on a given avenue, there should be limited service on half
the buses. If 2 lines share the same avenue for several miles and both
are running 5 or more buses an hour, the MTA should make one of those
bus lines a limited. On Fifth Av., where 5 or 6 bus lines share the
road, the m2 and m4 are usually limited.
And the m5 is always a limited on weekdays from mornings till early
evenings, the idea being to ease congestion at the 72 St./Bway subway
station by shifting some Upper West Side commuters from the subway to
the m5 bus. (72/Bway has narrow platforms & only a couple of narrow
staircases for all its express & local passengers.) Actually, this m5
experiment is about a year old. I wonder if it's considered a success.
And I wonder why the m104 has no limited service. Sometime they run
down Broadway, 3 or 4 in a pack, each bus making every stop.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9487
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Brooklyn IRT H Line??
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:41 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 07, 1998 at 16:08:36:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Brooklyn IRT H Line?? posted by steve L on
February 07, 1998 at 09:49:34:
If you'll look at the map they call it an "H" because the eastside and
westside have the shuttle in the middle. It is an old term. Sorry for
the confusion. How 'bout Brooklyn Trivia?
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NEXT>9505
PREVIOUS>9484
POSTER>Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:44 1998
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Posted by Michael Lyons on February 07, 1998 at 16:15:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Steve on February 06,
1998 at 21:03:39:
Thanks Steve,
I did not know there could be 2 traction motors per truck, I thought
there was just one BIG motor on each truck. As far as the 110A and the
newer IRT cars being built R142?? do you know the motor configuration
for these cars.
Thanks for the info about the Hostler Controler.
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NEXT>9544
PREVIOUS>9462
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:46 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 07, 1998 at 18:27:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Eric B on February 06, 1998 at 12:46:50:
According to the track map book: The local tracks are the N/R track.
The express tracks go on to 63rd Street. There is a crossover North
and South of the station. It is my understanding that one track will
be open in 63rd tunnel after the 6 av tracks join the line. It seems
easy enough to have a Q entering from the South switched to the one
track- say Dowtown and the S to the other- say uptown (or reversed.)
I hope this is the answer you want.
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NEXT>9524
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:52 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 07, 1998 at 18:32:07:
Per WCBS radio 880, the tram is fully operational again (6:30PM) due
to protest by residents .
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NEXT>9502
PREVIOUS>9489
POSTER>Allan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 10 17:04:55 1998
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Posted by Allan on February 07, 1998 at 18:39:09:
In Reply to: [8]R1-R9's posted by Mike B on February 07, 1998 at
10:06:40:
I believe you are talking about the handbrake mechanism
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NEXT>9508
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:00 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 07, 1998 at 19:00:48:
I was wondering which station brings in the lowest amount of revenue
in one day? The highest? I read somewhere once that Dean Street on the
Franklin Shuttle brought in the lowest, somewhere around $100/day,
with most of the people jumping the turnstiles. But I think that Dean
Street is closed so which is the new station with the lowest revenue?
As for the station bringing in the highest revenue in one day, my best
guess would be either 42nd/Times Square or 34th Street on the N and R.
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NEXT>9509
PREVIOUS>9500
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:04 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 07, 1998 at 19:12:48:
In Reply to: [8]R1-R9's posted by Mike B on February 07, 1998 at
10:06:40:
On all versions, that was the Handbrake manufactured by "Blackall".
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NEXT>9504
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:08 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 07, 1998 at 19:21:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Michael Lyons on
February 07, 1998 at 16:15:50:
They don't teach this in school car but the standard traction
arrangement is one motor per axle or 2 per truck. On the Axle is a
"Bull Gear" which is enclosed in an oil filled gear case. It is turned
by a "Pinion Gear" which is connected to the traction motor via a
flexible coupling. The gear ratio is roughly 7:1.
I have no info related to the R-142A as yet but I would assume it will
follow convention except that it will have AC Traction Motors
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NEXT>9510
PREVIOUS>9503
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:11 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 07, 1998 at 19:22:48:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Michael Lyons on
February 07, 1998 at 16:15:50:
They don't teach this in school car but the standard traction
arrangement is one motor per axle or 2 per truck. The motors are
series wound type. On the Axle is a "Bull Gear" which is enclosed in
an oil filled gear case. It is turned by a "Pinion Gear" which is
connected to the traction motor via a flexible coupling. The gear
ratio is roughly 7:1.
I have no info related to the R-142A as yet but I would assume it will
follow convention except that it will have AC Traction Motors
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NEXT>9507
PREVIOUS>9497
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:13 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 07, 1998 at 19:31:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Dan Schwartz on
February 07, 1998 at 05:30:40:
We have push-pull commuter rail here in Boston. The diesel engine is
always on the "outbound" side of the train (northerly side on trains
leaving North Station; southerly side on trains leaving South
Station). This is so that the exhaust from the engine escapes into the
air, and
not into the station.
The opposite end of the train is conrolled by a "control car." On the
outside, it looks like a passenger coach. But on one end, is a set of
controls (throttle, air brake stand, cab signaling, etc.) which the
engineer uses to run the train when heading inboudn. The throttle
setting is remoted to the engine via the train's electrical
connections which are passed from car to car via jumper cables. The
air brake stand runs the train air system. The only major difference
in running the train from the control cab end is that the engineer has
no use of the engine's independent brake; that can only be used when
in the engine.
FYI, MBTA commuter rail coaches that are "trailers" have three digit
numbers (2xx, 3xx, 5xx, 6xx, 7xx). Control cars have four digit
numbers beginning in 1 (15xx, 16xx, 17xx [there are no 12xx or 13xx
control cars]).
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NEXT>9573
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Henrik
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Hamburg-Germany
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:16 1998
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Posted by Henrik on February 07, 1998 at 19:32:25:
Hello! I (M,20) would visit NYC on Monday 6 days long.
If you have any Tips for us (scene events, riots, revolutions...)
than please write us or visit us in the Youth Hostal.
My be the Power with you!!!
bye
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NEXT>9518
PREVIOUS>9505
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:19 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 07, 1998 at 19:42:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Dan Schwartz on
February 07, 1998 at 05:30:40:
The principle of push-pull operation is an outgrowth of MU operation.
In the push mode, the locomotive provides the power from te rear of
the train but the engneer is in the front of the train. He has a set
of controls which send commands from his/her position to the
locomotive. The commands can be sent either electrically,
electronically, optically or pneumatically. The locomotive's control's
merely replicate the commands it receives from the control position.
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NEXT>9515
PREVIOUS>9501
POSTER>David L.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:21 1998
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Posted by David L. on February 07, 1998 at 19:45:06:
In Reply to: [7]Underutilized Stations posted by Adam on February 07,
1998 at 19:00:48:
My guess would be the Bowery Street Station on the J and M.
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NEXT>9526
PREVIOUS>9502
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:24 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07, 1998 at 19:48:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Steve on February 07, 1998 at
19:12:48:
I remember those "brakes". I knew it was supposed to be a brake, but
why it was there I never understood. It certainly didn't actually
function as a brake when the handle was pulled. As a kid I would ride
at the front window and pull up on the "brake handle" when we entered
a station; to start up again, I had to content myself with pulling on
the (locked) door handle. But why were these brake handles there,
under what circumstances did they function, and when were they
disabled (if indeed they were)?
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NEXT>9527
PREVIOUS>9504
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:27 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 07, 1998 at 20:34:04:
In Reply to: [7]Traction Motor Primer posted by Steve on February 07,
1998 at 19:22:48:
How do they run AC traction motors if the 3rd rail is DC
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Dave - Thanks for the Archive
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:30 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 07, 1998 at 20:37:39:
Thanks for the archive. The board actually loaded easily tonight.
This is still the best website on line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9423
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ashland Place Connection
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:33 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 07, 1998 at 21:33:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Ashland Place Connection posted by Eric B on
February 05, 1998 at 19:21:24:
Did you know, at one time, the Chicago El system had a West Side El
that ran adjacent to an Ashland Ave.
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NEXT>9646
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>John Sullivan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Transit Police
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:35 1998
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Posted by John Sullivan on February 07, 1998 at 22:53:04:
I am building a Transit Policing web site and would appreciate any
input regarding links to transit police around the world, as well as
historical info. on the NYC Transit Police Department.
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NEXT>9579
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:38 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 07, 1998 at 22:56:10:
I am preparing some Bronx transit info for my home paage at;
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/1346/
I have been rereading and reading some books that I do not own, but
have a wealth of information in them. These books are;
The New York Elevated Railway by Robert Reed, 1978
Uptown Downtown by Stan Fischler, 1976
Under The Sidewalks of Hew York by Brian Cudahy, 1979
722 Miles by by Clifton Hood, 1993.
The 722 Miles book is the newer of this group and one that I have not
read before. This is a scholarly work that covers the era of rapid
transit growth from the first EL through the Dual Contracts and the
TA.
From a naive railfan's view, this book identifies the whys and
wherefores as to how the current state of transit affairs in NYC came
to be.
It is a wonder that a subway ever got built and put into operation.
The text identifies the people who were responsible for the growth of
rapid transit and the deferring of or lack of growth due to the
political battles of the era.
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NEXT>9538
PREVIOUS>9508
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:41 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 07, 1998 at 23:35:42:
In Reply to: [8]Underutilized Stations posted by Adam on February 07,
1998 at 19:00:48:
There are a couple of stations on the A line in the Rockaways that are
among the least utilized in the system (I'm not sure which ones
specifically). Bowery station in Manhattan is also very low on the
list, as is 21-Van Alst on the G train in Queens.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9493
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC low floor buses
DATE>Feb 10 17:05:43 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 07, 1998 at 23:45:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC low floor buses posted by Reggie on February
07, 1998 at 14:23:32:
Low floor buses (by New Flyer) have been in use by the Port Authority
of New York/New Jersey for Terminal and Parking lot shuttles at the
New York airports (also EWR, Newark, NJ) since 1992. They seem to be
great for this service, but in my opinion the steps in the rear may be
dangerous on any NYCTA route that carries large numbers of passengers.
The Roosevelt Island Operating Authority also has 3 or 4 of them for
shuttle service.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9416
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Do all el's have "4th" rail?
DATE> ::
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That 'fourth' rail is a rerailer - in the event of a derailment,
it's supposed to keep the train on the tracks - I know some sections of
the Babylon elevated branch of the LIRR have the rerailer, and it's
often on bridges in the event of a derailment. Sometimes two inner
rails are used (in between the rider rails) as well.
NEXT>9522
PREVIOUS>9507
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE> ::
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I can't speak for every type of NYC subway train, but I think there
are power cars and trailer cars. The power cars obviously provide the
traction, and the trailers get pulled along. I think it's configured
something like this - power car, trailer, power car, etc. with a repeat
of that configuration. I don't know about the old trains, and every
train, but I think the new IRT cars are like that. I know commuter
trains like LIRR and MN have "married pairs" that must run in tandem.
Every car (mu electric car that is) is identical, with a cab at one end
and a cabless end at the other. The cabless ends are paired together,
and the trains must always run in even consists and are serviced in
pairs. I'll have to check my NYC Subway Cars book to find out the
config of the subways, power, trailer, etc.
As for push pull, NJT has a lot of push pull and MN is also moving
in that direction, to save on maintenance costs and for better service
in bad weather. The locomotive pulls the train when it is in the
front. When the train reaches its final dest, the engine then 'pushes'
the train, with loco in back. The loco is controlled from a cab car
which rides in front (back when in pull mode). To answer your question
about derailments in the push mode, there was a case late last year
where pushing proved to cause a problem. A NJT train that was being
pushed into Penn St. NY derailed after going over a turnout. The same
train derailed again less than a week later. Track experts had to
examine the track to determine the problem, I never heard the outcome.
Normally push pull works well, and the weight of the trains plus the
tight coupling keeps the cars on track. On my model railroad layout, HO
scale, I run NJT and MN trains and do run in both push and pull modes.
I have F9's and NJT U34CH's and F40's and I do run them in the push
mode. It's a little trickier in HO scale because of the weight, but it
works. Hope this helps!
James
"There's a grand world below the streets of New York - a world of
subways"
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9488
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Penn Station Map?
DATE> ::
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I cut one out of Newsday (the Long Island version) about nine years
ago, don't know where it is. But it was a newspaper graphic, giving a
rough picture of the tracks and platform arrangements, with the
connections to the East River tunnels, and the tunnels themselves. The
map of the terminal showed how the tracks were divided among the
railroads. The article focused on the problems Amtrak and LIRR were
having, and how blames for delays were being thrown around. If you
really want a map, write to Amtrak or the LIRR and see if they'll send
you one.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9436
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Two Quiz Questions
DATE> ::
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Carl M. Rabbin wrote:
> Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 05, 1998 at 15:56:51:
>
> What is the only train that stops at two completely different stations
> with exactly the same name? What is that station name?
It's the R train, and it stops at 36th St. in Queens and 36th St. in
Brooklyn.
>
>
> And what major avenue in Manhattan has subway stops at 23, 42, 53, 59
> Streets?
>
Lexington Avenue. The IRT 4,5,6 train stops at 23, 42, 53 (actually it's
51st, but you can exit at 53, I think) and 59th. Someone posted an answer
saying 23rd was actually on Park Ave, but I have exited the IRT at 23rd and
came up on Lexington Avenue, so it is on Lex.
> Answers tomorrow unless you guys figure it out sooner...
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
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NEXT>9565
PREVIOUS>9474
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train Trestle over 23rd Street?
DATE> ::
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Albert wrote:
> Posted by Albert on February 06, 1998 at 04:32:38:
>
> I was passing under an overpass on 23 Street a couple of weeks ago.
> This overpass spans 23rd Street in Manhattan between two avenues, near
> the Chelsea Piers (don't remember the avenues). Can anyone tell me if
> this an old subway or freight train trestle/tracks or if its actually
> a ramp going to/fro the Lincoln Tunnel. It was at night so it was hard
> to make out this structure besides the fact I was passing under this
> overpass in a car.
>
> Might have been the old elevated freight line you saw. I think it used
> to go to Nabisco foods (when they were in NYC) and it's abandoned now. It
> just ends at a certain point.
NEXT>9581
PREVIOUS>9518
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE> ::
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Dan Schwartz wrote:
> Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07, 1998 at 05:30:40:
>
> In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
> February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
>
Push pull trains have "cab control cars" at the very end. A cab car is
typically identical to a coach car, except that it has a "subway car" type cab
with windows at the end and driving controls. The cab car is connected to the
locomotive (via cable) and the engineer controls the loco from this cab car.
The cab car also has wipers, headlights, and horns - basically like any
electric train car. Some railroads (Amtrak included) converted coaches to cab
cars, but now cab cars are being produced to go with coaches.
NEXT>9525
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Pelham 1-2-3/Seinfeld
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:16 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 08, 1998 at 00:40:47:
Is the person who plays Rico Patrone in The Taking of Pelham
One-Two-Three (Jerry Stiller) the same person who plays Frank Castanza
in Seinfeld? I watch Seinfeld all the time and the resemblance seems
to be very close (of course he would be a lot older in Seinfeld). I
always mean to, but keep forgetting to check the damn credits!
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NEXT>9529
PREVIOUS>9499
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:19 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 00:43:41:
In Reply to: [8]Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
subway-buff on February 07, 1998 at 18:32:07:
I would have been in favor of seeing the tram closed permanently. It
serves too few people and runs a $700,000 defecit. The people of
Roosevelt Island have other options. The tram doesn't even make a good
tourist attraction...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9523
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pelham 1-2-3/Seinfeld
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:21 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 00:44:53:
In Reply to: [8]Pelham 1-2-3/Seinfeld posted by Bootsy on February 08,
1998 at 00:40:47:
They are one and the same...
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NEXT>9563
PREVIOUS>9509
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:23 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 00:51:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07,
1998 at 19:48:01:
They were never disabled as a handbrake is required safety equipment.
In order to apply the handbrake, it had to be turned through several
rotations so pulling on it once or twice would not have applied it,
nor would pulling 'up' on the handle. In addition, the small dog at
the bottom had to engage the teeth to prevent it from releasing.
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NEXT>9528
PREVIOUS>9510
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:27 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 00:55:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction Motor Primer posted by Joe M on February
07, 1998 at 20:34:04:
The 600 volt DC is converted to AC by an inverter. The motor speed may
be controlled in several ways including varying the pulse-width or the
frequency. Currently, the TA has an 8 car train running on the C line
utilizing AC propulsion.
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NEXT>9586
PREVIOUS>9527
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:29 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 08, 1998 at 01:33:05:
In Reply to: [7]Traction Motor Primer posted by Steve on February 07,
1998 at 19:22:48:
Isn't it interesting that the NYCTA uses the same method of motor
mounting and gearing that Frank J. Sprague developed in 1887-88, a
motor mounted on the axle at 2 points and a third or forth mount on a
spring carrier. Technology that has been used for 110 years in major
electric railway service.
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NEXT>9530
PREVIOUS>9524
POSTER>Roosevelt Island former resident
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:32 1998
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Posted by Roosevelt Island former resident on February 08, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Steve on February 08, 1998 at 00:43:41:
Listen, for many elderly and others, the Tram serves a very valuable
purpose. That is, getting to the East Side quickly and efficiently. My
mother, who is now a widow, uses the Tram to visit friends. What
stature do you have to be able to say the Tram should be permanently
closed?
The subway, being as far below ground as it is, just doesn't cut it.
The Tram workers, after my Dad passed away last spring, were quite
solicitous in watching out for my Mom. There is a lot more to the Tram
story than your tunnel vision. (No pun intended]
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NEXT>9532
PREVIOUS>9529
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:35 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 10:32:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Roosevelt Island former resident on February 08, 1998 at 01:45:50:
From what I've read about the tram and its temporary suspension, R.I.
residents seem to have a rather negative opinion of the subway. There
were several comments about how dangerous the subway was, which really
aren't accurate any more. Perceptions haven't necessarily kept up with
reality.
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NEXT>9546
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Manhattan Bridge Subway Alternatives - Tell the Governor and Mayor
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:46 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 08, 1998 at 11:02:21:
There have been many interesting postings on this subject recently,
and it demands attention. One item posted listed a way to inform the
governor and mayor, through a radio station. I just did this, found
the menu approach easy to use, and recommend that each one of us do
the same so they realize the severity of the situation.
The web site is http://www.newsradio88.com You can write separately to
the governor and mayor, or write one and cc: the other if you know the
e-mail address (handled as e-mail that hopefully will be used by the
station staff when they have the governor and mayor on their regularly
scheduled programs.
The more people that write, the more likely the issue will be raised
so please write them at that site.
Thanks.
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NEXT>9535
PREVIOUS>9530
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:50 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at 11:37:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 10:32:22:
That's very true, that people think that the subway is a lot more
dangerous than it really is. I feel a lot safer now than I did five or
ten years ago. However, I wouldn't dismiss the Roosevelt Island
residents' complaints as unfounded. Keep in mind that their stop is
the second stop on the B or Q train, right after Queensbridge/21st
Street, a very dangerous area and subway stop. I have read statistics
on this stop and the crime rate is rather high as compared with many
other stations. So everybody from Queensbridge passes through
Roosevelt Island on their trains, making it a little more unsafe than
the rest of the system, I would presume.
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NEXT>9593
PREVIOUS>9465
POSTER>Mark Greenwald
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:31:53 1998
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Posted by Mark Greenwald on February 08, 1998 at 11:53:17:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by STEVE on February 05,
1998 at 16:20:50:
In Washington, the real problem isn't salt but just ice and sometimes
the amount of a snowfall. The WMATA has posted a plan on its web site
stating, in the event of a snowfall, the different levels of service
that will be affected depending on the severity of the weather. If the
outdoor portions are inundated, they WILL shut down a an abbreviated
system will run.
Green Line--U Street Cardozo - Anacostia
Yellow Line--Crystal City - Mount Vernon Sq.
Orange Line--Ballston - Stadium/ Armory
Blue Line--Rosslyn - Stadium/ Armory
Red Line--Grosvenor - Union Station
Granted, a few of these do have small, above ground, portions, but, I
guess it's easier for the crews to concentrate on these small areas
than the entire above ground portion of the system.
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NEXT>9539
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mark Greenwald
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:00 1998
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Posted by Mark Greenwald on February 08, 1998 at 11:55:53:
I was just wondering, on the assumption that the renaming of National
Airport does go through, will the Metro change the name of the
National Airport station on the Blue & Yellow Lines?
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NEXT>9537
PREVIOUS>9532
POSTER>Mike B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:03 1998
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Posted by Mike B on February 08, 1998 at 12:02:10:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Roosevelt Island former resident on February 08, 1998 at 01:45:50:
It would not be a good idea to even think about discontinuing the tram
until all of the track work in the 63rd Street tunnel is completed.
With the rerouting of the B and Q trains, the closing of 57th
Street-6th Avenue at certain hours and the new "S" shuttle train that
runs on 20 minute headways, a viable alternative to the tram is just
not there. Finish the 63rd Street tunnel rebuild first and then the
idea of discontuing the tram can be re-visited.
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NEXT>9574
PREVIOUS>10033
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:06 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 08, 1998 at 12:21:41:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Ashland Place Connection posted by Mellow One on
February 07, 1998 at 21:33:12:
> Did you know, at one time, the Chicago El system had a West Side El
that ran adjacent to an Ashland Ave.
I think you're referring to the Metropolitan L's right of way about 3
blocks west of Ashland Ave. (nearer to Paulina St.). The line was 4
tracks from a terminal near Wells St. and Jackson Blvd (with a two
track connector to the Loop L at the soutwest corner, Wells and Van
Buren) to Marshfield Junction, located approximately where Paulia St.
meets the Eisenhower Expressway today. From there, it divided into 3
lines, one going south and then turning west near Cermack Rd. (22nd
St.), which is still in service today as the Blue line Douglas Park
branch, one turning north to near North and Milwaukee Ave., then
brancing, the Humbolt Park branch going due west, and the Logan Square
branch going northwest. The part of Logan Square branch is still in
sevice as part of the O'Hare Blue line. The third main branch
continued due west. This was the Garfield Park L. It was demolished
when the Eisenhower Expressway was constructed in the 1950s and
replaced by the Forest Park branch of the Blue line down the
expressway median. The Forest Park branch used to be called the
Congress branch, after the original name of the Expressway, the
Congress expressway, because it runs roughly along Congress St, which,
under Olmsted's plan, was to be a major east-west thorughfare. The
main post office building was even built in the 1930s with space for
Congress St. to pass through; this passage is now used by the
expressway.
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NEXT>9549
PREVIOUS>9535
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:10 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 13:00:38:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Roosevelt Island former resident on February 08, 1998 at 01:45:50:
My knowledge of Mass transit System planning not withstanding, I am
also a tax payer. To throw $700,000.00 away on a conveyance that has
less than marginal utility is a waste of money. I'm sure that there
are several people who find the tram useful. There are also those here
on Long Island who would find a high speed link to LaGuardia very
useful but it would not get enough use to justify it's creation. When
there was no alternative, the tram was very convenient but now there
is a subway which is perhaps not as scenic but it is faster and far
more useful in making much more of the city accessible to far more
people.
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NEXT>9557
PREVIOUS>9515
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:12 1998
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Posted by Sammy on February 08, 1998 at 13:17:20:
In Reply to: [8]Underutilized Stations posted by Adam on February 07,
1998 at 19:00:48:
My guess would be 21st Van Alst on the G, which should be replaced by
two stations: one on Ash Street, at the edge of Greenpoint (where
sporadic bus service now services the area) and one that would tie in
with the Vernon-Jackson stop on the 7 to allow transfers. That would
boost the G line's revenues and increase the already strong economic
wave that's hitting the area.
My second choice for least utilized station is East Broadway on the F.
My choice for under utilized line is the R train in Queens or the B
(or Q) into Queens.
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NEXT>9551
PREVIOUS>9534
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:15 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at 15:12:44:
In Reply to: [8]Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport posted by Mark
Greenwald on February 08, 1998 at 11:55:53:
The actual name is Ronald Reagan National Airport. "Washington" was
dropped from the title when the bill went to the House. I believe that
it has passed. I'm not sure if the subway station name will be
changed, but the airport code (DCA) is not changing.
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NEXT>9542
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:17 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at 15:19:13:
Is the Grand Central - Times Square Shuttle train the only line that
doesn't run in some capacity 24 hours/day? I believe it is now. You
have to use the 7 as an alternative between 12 midnight and 5AM. Has
there ever been any subway routes in the past that didn't run during
certain hours in some capacity?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9494
POSTER>Rail Fan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:20 1998
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Posted by Rail Fan on February 08, 1998 at 15:25:02:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B/C Terminal Swap Official Notice posted by Lou
from Middletown on February 07, 1998 at 15:07:35:
But if the C train is going a less distance, could they transfer C
trains to B trains.
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NEXT>9545
PREVIOUS>9540
POSTER>Rail Fan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:22 1998
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Posted by Rail Fan on February 08, 1998 at 15:26:36:
In Reply to: [7]24hr Service posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at
15:19:13:
I don;t know if this is what you mean but the C train only runs from
about 6am to about 11pm.
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NEXT>9566
PREVIOUS>9486
POSTER>Rail Fan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:24 1998
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Posted by Rail Fan on February 08, 1998 at 15:28:28:
In Reply to: [7]The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 05, 1998 at 14:39:13:
How come I don't read anything about this on the MTA web site?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9498
POSTER>Rail Fan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st queensbridge
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:26 1998
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Posted by Rail Fan on February 08, 1998 at 15:31:13:
In Reply to: [7]Re: new S train from 57th st, 7 av, to 21st st
queensbridge posted by Adam on February 05, 1998 at 00:56:04:
Do the new subway maps now show this route? I suspect that people that
go to the island a lot would know at what times the S departs.
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NEXT>9548
PREVIOUS>9542
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:28 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 08, 1998 at 15:37:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 24hr Service posted by Rail Fan on February 08,
1998 at 15:26:36:
There is also the 3 train. The midnight shuttle has been replaced by
bus for stops between 135/Lenox and 148/Lenox.
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NEXT>9845
PREVIOUS>9531
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Subway Alternatives - Tell the Governor and Mayor
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:29 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 08, 1998 at 16:07:32:
In Reply to: [8]Manhattan Bridge Subway Alternatives - Tell the
Governor and Mayor posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 08, 1998 at
11:02:21:
I have also suggested to Rich Lamb (the host of Ask the Mayor/Governor
on WCBS, Newsradio-88) that the Manhattan Bridge situation might make
an excellent subject for his Sunday evening (8:30-9:00 p.m.) program
"Let's Find Out."
-Todd
The WCBS Newsradio-88 SubFan
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NEXT>9554
PREVIOUS>10158
POSTER>Edward
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SIR trains
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:32 1998
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Posted by Edward on February 08, 1998 at 18:11:53:
I was riding on a Staten Island Railroad train to St.George to
Tottonville.
The coach sway from side to side from Tottonville to Present Plains.
What caused this? Bad tracks?
I am going to walk the North Shore Line of the SIR next week. Any
advice?
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NEXT>9550
PREVIOUS>9545
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:33 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 18:51:36:
In Reply to: [8]24hr Service posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at
15:19:13:
Back in the 1980s, the AA ran in place of the B during the non-peak
hours except on the midnight hours. There were many others including
the JFK express.
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NEXT>9553
PREVIOUS>9537
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:35 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 19:45:04:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Adam on February 08, 1998 at 11:37:59:
I'm surprised to hear that Queensbridge station is in a dangerous
area. It's in Long Island City, or thereabouts, which I had thought
was a generally safe area.
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NEXT>9562
PREVIOUS>9548
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:37 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 19:47:04:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 24hr Service posted by subway-buff on February 08,
1998 at 15:37:50:
Another (sort of) example is the J train station at Broad Street,
which is closed on weekends.
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NEXT>9552
PREVIOUS>9539
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:39 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 19:49:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport posted by
Adam on February 08, 1998 at 15:12:44:
>I'm not sure if the subway station name will be changed, but the
airport >code (DCA) is not changing.
Dang. "RON" would've had a certain _je ne sais quoi_ to it ...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9551
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:40 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 08, 1998 at 20:48:16:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Ronald Reagon Washington Nat'l Airport posted by
Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 19:49:13:
In practice it's a one word name anyway "National" I don't think it
matters if it begins with Washington or Ronald.
PS Did United move into the New Terminals at National or did they stay
in the same spot they were at??
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NEXT>9555
PREVIOUS>9549
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:42 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 08, 1998 at 21:05:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Peter Rosa on February 08, 1998 at 19:45:04:
Not quite so. The station was built under a city housing project
(Queensbridge houses, I think). The station, as the surrounding area
are overrun by drugs, prostitution and other crimes.
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NEXT>9868
PREVIOUS>9547
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:44 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:04:01:
In Reply to: [8]SIR trains posted by Edward on February 08, 1998 at
18:11:53:
Track work is usually the cause for the coach sway on the line. There
was a notice about capital track work on the line for Saturday. As for
walking the North Shore line, I posted a virtual ROW walk late last
week....check the archives...
-Hank
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NEXT>9580
PREVIOUS>9553
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:46 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:12:14:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Steve on February 08, 1998 at 13:00:38:
Espesially since the tram fare is so high, even if it is the standard
1/2 fare for seniors, it's $1.75/$.80 one-way, The subway fare is only
$1.50/$.75, and you get a free transfer to a city bus....no excuses
here, all the 63st stations are Handicap Accessible, with elevators,
and there's a stop a few blocks from the tram, at 63/Lexington, with
perfect access to buses.
-Hank
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NEXT>9561
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:49 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:24:10:
The redbirds on the 2, at least, have recieved new roll signs,
indicating a dual routing. One sign indicates '2 to Brooklyn 5 to
Bronx', the other is a reverse.
-Hank
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NEXT>9558
PREVIOUS>9538
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:51 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:38:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by David L. on
February 07, 1998 at 19:45:06:
Not Bowery Street, just Bowery. And the Nassau St Line would win the
prize for must unused track and platform space....
-Hank
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NEXT>9567
PREVIOUS>9557
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:53 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 09, 1998 at 02:49:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by Hank Eisenstein
on February 09, 1998 at 02:38:32:
in the late sixties when i was an NYC resident i occasionally used
York on the F line. Iwould have nominated it as I rarely encountered
another person in the station
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NEXT>9560
PREVIOUS>9464
POSTER>Hank EIsenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:54 1998
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Posted by Hank EIsenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:50:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on February 06, 1998 at 12:57:48:
The big challenge they have is a WHITE LED. And don't convuse LED with
LCD. LED's are Lighted Electric Diodes (or Light Emitting Diodes), and
LCD is Liquid Crystal Display. LED's are like little light bulbs, and
until recently, were available only in Red, Green, Yellow, and Bipolar
(+Red, -Green, and alternating polarity producing Orange)
At least one of the New Flyer D60s has an LED sign, with yellow
diodes.
The older bus signs, and the sign that failed the 'test' on the R44,
is the dot matrix 'flipper' style sign, where each dot is actually a
tiny motorized peg, with the color of choice being attached to the
peg. The display is controlled by polarity.
LCD signs are a simalar principle. There is a background, generally
gray, sometimes backlit, and the crystal is between to pieces of
finely etched glass. The displayed character is made by either
applying or removing the electric charge to the specific etched
section. A more recent method of using this type of display is to have
a colored backlight, and have the entire display charged (dark) and
turning off the charge to the needed section, displaying the backlight
color. I believe this is the type used on NJT.
-Hank
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NEXT>9584
PREVIOUS>9559
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:56 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:58:03:
In Reply to: [8]Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Eric B on
February 05, 1998 at 20:09:28:
I believe the best combination would be the large curtain sign on the
car end, and the digital display on the car sides. This way, there is
only the need to physically chaange the end signs, as the side signs
can be changed by code entered into the luminator computer.
I should also note that when the R44 and R46 were delivered, they had
a system that could have changed all the roll signs on the train from
any cab, one of the reasons for all those electrical contacts on the
old coupler. There were 3 dials, and a transmit button, if I remmeber
the old console correctly...
-hakn
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NEXT>9602
PREVIOUS>9556
POSTER>Julio Perez
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:32:58 1998
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Posted by Julio Perez on February 09, 1998 at 07:27:29:
In Reply to: [8]New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:24:10:
Anyone with a digital camera riding the 2/5?
How about submitting a photo with the roll sign Hank E. has mentioned
to post on the site so that we the exiles from NYC can see?
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NEXT>9568
PREVIOUS>9550
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:01 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 08:06:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 24hr Service posted by Peter Rosa on February 08,
1998 at 19:47:04:
Yes, the J line is cut back to Chambers St. on weekends. The TA
probably figured that passengers could simply transfer to the 4 or 5
to continue their trip, since those particular trains run right next
to the Nassau St. subway.
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NEXT>9599
PREVIOUS>9526
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:03 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 08:39:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Allan on February 07, 1998 at
18:39:09:
There was at least one instance, mentioned in Building the Independent
Subway, in which improperly set handbrakes resulted in an accident. In
1936, a laid-up GG train at Smith-9th Sts. rolled downhill toward
Carroll St. and crashed into a another train which was moving into
lay-up. The book doesn't mention how many cars were damaged, but it
does mention that additional cars were ordered to cover the losses. I
don't believe this accident involved R-7A #1575, which was rebuilt
into the R-10 prototype.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9452
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crazy route from 1930s?
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:05 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 09:16:42:
In Reply to: [8]Crazy route from 1930s? posted by Ed Sachs on February
06, 1998 at 10:09:56:
You are right on both counts: there is a circle line in London which
uses the Metropolitan and District Lines, and there was, in fact, a
Loop shuttle in Chicago at one time.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9521
POSTER>Bill J
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train Trestle over 23rd Street?
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:08 1998
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Posted by Bill J on February 09, 1998 at 09:22:43:
In Reply to: [8]Train Trestle over 23rd Street? posted by Albert on
February 06, 1998 at 04:32:38:
I used to live across the street (Horatio and West, below 14th street)
in the early seventies and the freight line was very active serving
the meat-processing plants in the area. Sorry to hear it's gone.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9543
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:10 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 09:26:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The Lenox Line Fix-Up posted by Mike Klufas on
February 07, 1998 at 09:41:37:
Ironically, that's the only four-track stretch (Union Square to just
before Grand Central) in the entire original Contract One line where
the tracks are ruler-straight, if you don't include the section where
the shuttle runs today.
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NEXT>9571
PREVIOUS>9558
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:11 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 09, 1998 at 09:38:32:
In Reply to: [7]Underutilized Stations posted by Adam on February 07,
1998 at 19:00:48:
my best guess would be Canal Street-Manhattan Bridge Station,
Foti
Just joking, it sees alot of foot traffic though
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NEXT>9570
PREVIOUS>9562
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:15 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 09, 1998 at 09:44:36:
In Reply to: [8]24hr Service posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at
15:19:13:
Of course, in New York, pepole are used to 24 hour transit service. In
other major cities, all public transit service shuts down overnight
(usually from about midnight to 5 am). For example, in Boston, no
subway or bus service in the early AM hours. In London, the
underground shuts down at night (although I believe they may still run
a few bus lines).
Chicago used to be pretty much of a 24 hour city also, but in recent
years the CTA has been cutting back on "owl" service. Currenlty, the
red, blue, and green L (rapid transit) lines are 24 hour, but the owl
service on the green line is to be ended shortly. Also, the owl
service bus routes are a mere shadow of what they were some years
back.
The argument for ending the late night service is that very few riders
actually use it. The problems with this argument are:
1. Those who do have few alternatives (people who work odd shifts and
don't have cars or can't drive).
2. Many more people would not use public transit if they had to worry
whether they would leave in time for the "last" train/bus. even though
they rarely leave that late.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Joshua Caesar
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>MetroCard by mail (Re: Monthly Pass)
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:18 1998
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Posted by Joshua Caesar on February 09, 1998 at 09:55:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Monthly Pass posted by Peter Rosa on February 05,
1998 at 11:58:37:
Right now if you get your LIRR ticket by mail, you can get a MetroCard
with money on it. It would make sense for the MTA to have the option
to buy a monthly MetroCard on the back of your monthly raliroad
ticket. However, I think that the ability to buy a MetroCard by mail
without a railroad ticket, a true service to NYC citizens, is
unlikely. The TA has MetroCard sales in so many neighborhood stores,
so they will give the store owners some monthlys and weeklys as their
solution. Much cheaper than instituting MetroCard by mail.
Joshua Caesar
studlyjc@aol.com
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NEXT>9577
PREVIOUS>9568
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:20 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 10:00:28:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 24hr Service posted by Steve B on February 09,
1998 at 08:06:20:
There may be another reason why Broad Street is closed on weekends.
Apparently, by closing the station the TA doesn't have to staff a
nearby tower, which produces labor savings beyond those gained by not
having to staff the station itself.
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NEXT>9578
PREVIOUS>9567
POSTER>Chris C
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:23 1998
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Posted by Chris C on February 09, 1998 at 10:02:28:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by david vartanoff
on February 09, 1998 at 02:49:25:
For the past 6 and a half years, I have riden the F every day and at
various hours. I have never, never, seen anyone get on or off at York
Street. I constantly ask people about it and noone I have ever
encountered has ever herd of anyone using that station. One day I got
off there just to see. I didn't see a soul. I exited down below the
Manhattan bridge and walked home. Very remote part of town with no
other subways nearby. It's even a bit of a hike to the back end of
High Street on the A line. I am all in favor of more stations reaching
more remote areas of the city. I would like to know if anyone has ever
herd of passengers getting on or off at York Street. Is there a
history to the station? Like, they use to use it in the 40's when the
Navy Yard was teaming with activity or something like that. I have
lived in New York for 33 years and half of the people I know, myself
included, have been to the 91st Street Station on the #1 line more
often than York Street.
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NEXT>9626
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Oops, sorry about my spelling.
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:26 1998
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Posted by Chris C. on February 09, 1998 at 10:11:35:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by Chris C on
February 09, 1998 at 10:02:28:
Oops, sorry about the spelling.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9506
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hamburg-Germany
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:28 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 10:16:46:
In Reply to: [8]Hamburg-Germany posted by Henrik on February 07, 1998
at 19:32:25:
I suspect our German friend is thinking of the wrong kind of
"Sub-Talk". Sub-Dom is more in the way of what he is seeking than
subway!
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NEXT>9592
PREVIOUS>9536
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:32 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 10:56:58:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Mellow One on
February 08, 1998 at 19:47:07:
The connection along the old Metropolitan L at Congress still exists.
Where the Cicero/54th Avenue (Douglas) branch of the Blue Line rises
as an L from the Eisenhower Expy. median (the Forest Park branch), it
then makes a turn to go south. But if you look north from that turn,
there is a continuation of the L structure and tracks north.
It no longer goes all the way to the Logan Square branch, but ends at
the Green Line (Lake Street L to Harlem), at the site of the original
Lake Transfer station. (Now Lake Transfer is the informal term for the
station at Clark/Lake and Lake/Wells where you can change from the
Blue subway to the Loop L lines.) The track is not in revenue service
but is used to transfer cars from the L to the Blue Line, and is the
only track connection of the Blue Line with the rest of the system.
(Every line but the Blue could be run either over the Loop L or
through the State Street Subway at will.)
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NEXT>9618
PREVIOUS>9481
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:35 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 11:05:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by aaron on
February 06, 1998 at 22:26:03:
The best one is at:
http://members.aol.com/chirailfan/railfan.html
which is listed on the links page of www.subway.org. On the "Chicago
Transit/Metra Railfan Site", there are links there to other similar
sites. But it has a lot on its own to read!
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NEXT>9659
PREVIOUS>9492
POSTER>Andrew Byler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed in Septas Tunnels
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:37 1998
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Posted by Andrew Byler on February 09, 1998 at 11:23:55:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Speed in Septas Tunnels posted by KWAMIE TURNER on
February 07, 1998 at 13:22:32:
The maximum speed on Septa's Broad St. line is 70 mph on the express
tracks, 55 mph on the local tracks and the Broad-Ridge spur. I think
the Market-Frankford is limited to 50 mph.
Andy
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NEXT>9869
PREVIOUS>9570
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:39 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 11:28:53:
In Reply to: [7]24hr Service posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at
15:19:13:
Lots of train letters or numbers don't run 24 hours a day. Lots of
tracks are not used 24 hours a day, including Lexington Express tracks
in Manhattan.
More useful delineations are:
1)Are there any stations not served 24 hours a day? Yes, Broad St.,
145 St, 148 St.
2) Are there any route stations not served 24 hours a day? Yes, the
two 42 St Shuttle stations, Fulton St. on the Nassau St. Line (+
Broad, 145, 148).
3) Are there any between-station route sections not served 24 hours a
day with at least a direct train-change connection? Yes, Broad St.
Court St., Lexington Ave/59 St Queens Plaza.
4) Does NYC have a true 24-hour system? Yes, the parts not covered are
miniscule and not at all remote from replacement service.
I believe that for train people like us, bus replacement is not part
of the discussion here. However: Some cities have overnight special
train-replacement busses,such as Montreal, Toronto (Yonge and
Bloor-Danforth), Philadelphia (Broad and MFSE), NYC (just 135 - 148
St.). Most have just general night bus service with select day routes
running all night (including those with subway replacement busses).
Some cities have a completely unrelated night bus schedule, like
Paris.
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NEXT>9613
PREVIOUS>9571
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:42 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 11:35:07:
In Reply to: [7]Underutilized Stations posted by Adam on February 07,
1998 at 19:00:48:
For decades, Grand Central Terminal (4,5,6,7,S) was the
largest-revenue station in NYC. When Times Sq (1,2,3,9,7,N,R,S) was
merged with 42 St (A,C,E), it became the largest-revenue station
because the revenue is now merged as one.
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NEXT>9630
PREVIOUS>9514
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:45 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 09, 1998 at 11:55:07:
In Reply to: [8]More Subway & El Books posted by Mellow One on
February 07, 1998 at 22:56:10:
Stan Fischler just did a remake of "Uptown Downtown" called "The
Subway".
--Mark
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NEXT>9583
PREVIOUS>9555
POSTER>Mark Goldey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:47 1998
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Posted by Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 12:14:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Steve on February 08, 1998 at 13:00:38:
I don't think its entirely fair to view the tram as a $700,000 waste
of money. The tram permitted Roosevelt Island to be developed into
housing, hospitals, etc., that it could not have supported if it were
attached to the rest of NYC by a bridge to Queens and nothing else.
The community on Roosevelt Island is worth a lot of money to the NYC
economy and tax base. Whether that money is more or less than $700,000
I cannot say, although I _strongly_ suspect that it is. The existance
of that community also represents less competition for housing stock,
hospital space, park space, etc. for the rest of NYC, and marginally
reduces the cost of living in the rest of the big apple.
Whether these benefits offset the cost of operating the tram is
something I cannot say with any degree of certainty. The fact that we
don't all benefit from the same municipal services, or that these
services are not accounted for in a single general ledger, is not,
IMHO jusitification for severing a transportation link.
I also question whether the subway link to the Island would cover its
costs, with or without the tram. The same point would apply, though,
subject only the question of whether the tram "loses" more money than
the subway would. That might be a legitimate argument for shutting it
down.
Just my thoughts.
--mhg
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9522
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Traction questions
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:51 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 09, 1998 at 12:28:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Traction questions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 05, 1998 at 14:48:08:
> Every NYC subway car, I think, has its own traction. I once heard of
a
> train driven from the 3rd car in an emergency, I think.
IIRC, this is what contrinuted to a crash of a GG train (consisting of
R-40Ms?) at Roosevelt Ave in either 1969 or the very early '70s.
Something malfunctioned (brakes?) in the lead car and the train
operator was forced to use the cab in the third car, with the
conductor in the front relaying signal positions to the train operator
by radio. An incorrect signal was relatyed to the train operator and
his train went through an interlocking, crashing into an in-service
train negotiating the switch. 3 died and over 70 were injured. After
this crash, the practice of operating a train from other than the lead
car was discontinued. (Or was supposed to be).
--Mark
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Recent Problems on Toronto Subway System
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:55 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 12:48:51:
In this past weekend's Toronto Globe & Mail, there was an article
about "subway shovings". In the past 6 months 6 people have been
pushed onto the tracks, sometimes in front of oncoming trains. Half of
those were proven to be done by people with extreme mental illness
problems. Now everyone in Toronto stands hard against the wall of side
platform stations (they showed a photo of a line of people all against
the wall at one station). They say this is one thing that has made
people petrified in this city of nearly no crime or fear.
My wife and plan to move there when we retire, so I really get
disturbed when life there seems to be deteriorating. The good news is
that people there always really worry when some problem turns up, then
society somehow expresses disapproval in a way that the problem often
disappears again.
Toronto otherwise has a great (but not so large) subway system, with
trains every 4 minutes all day long. They really believe that busses
and cars are meant to feed into the trains, and that the train should
really be frequent to keep people using the system.
I think the Globe & Mail has a web site where this story can be found.
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NEXT>9594
PREVIOUS>9580
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:33:58 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 09, 1998 at 12:57:09:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:12:14:
Think a bit before declaring handicap access a non issue! I lost my
right leg at the knee a few years ago, and from my reading of the
handicapped access points on the MTA, It looks like I have ridden for
the last time. You see, getting on at 63rd st is of little practical
use if you can't get off anywhere but, say, the Port Authority Bus
Terminal!
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NEXT>9588
PREVIOUS>9560
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:00 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 09, 1998 at 12:57:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:58:03:
Another benefit of digital, is that when new routes are created, you
don't have to keep buying new signs, or using inaccurate signs, or the
split B&D sevice during Manhattan Bridge flip-flops (they could bring
back the T and use another letter for the Brighton).
With digital, you could just program another letter and color.
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NEXT>9587
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs complete IRT Rollsign listing
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:02 1998
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Posted by steve L on February 09, 1998 at 12:58:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Julio
Perez on February 09, 1998 at 07:27:29:
does anyone have a complete ,up to date,,IRT listing
christof@webtv.net
thank you,,,,steve
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9528
POSTER>Steve B
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SUBJECT>Re: Traction Motor Primer
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:04 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 13:00:29:
In Reply to: [8]Traction Motor Primer posted by Steve on February 07,
1998 at 19:21:53:
Speaking of gears, did you ever wonder why all prewar cars (IRT
Composite, Hi-V, Lo-V, BMT standard, Triplex, el cars,
multisectionals, R1-9s) in New York would moan and groan and whine as
they gathered speed while postwar cars (R-10s and later) were much
quieter in that respect? Prewar trucks had spur-cut bull and pinion
gears (like reverse gear on an automobile's 4-speed or 5-speed manual
transmission; that's why you hear a whine when backing up), while
postwar trucks have helical-cut bull and pinion gears (like the
forward speeds of an automobile's manual transmision). The Transit
Museum has examples of both truck types; you can plainly see the
gearing. Spur-cut gears have teeth which are cut straight across;
while this costs less, it results in noisy operation. Helical-cut
gears have teeth which are cut diagonally across (about 45 degrees, I
believe), and while this type of gear is more costly to produce, two
such gears meshing together operate much more quietly.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9585
POSTER>steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs complete IRT Rollsign listing
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:07 1998
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Posted by steve L on February 09, 1998 at 13:01:07:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Julio
Perez on February 09, 1998 at 07:27:29:
does anyone have a complete ,up to date,,IRT listing
christof@webtv.net
thank you,,,,steve
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NEXT>9629
PREVIOUS>9584
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:09 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 09, 1998 at 13:01:28:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Hank
EIsenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:50:12:
The white LED will be possible with the addition of blue to the
yellow/amber units.
Another idea I used to have for signs is full-color LCD, as is used on
pocket TV, newer cameras, laptops, etc. But LED gives a crisper
clearer color
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9491
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 148 and Lenox Station
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:13 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 13:02:08:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 148 and Lenox Station posted by Reggie on February
07, 1998 at 12:41:31:
I'm just guessing that they might have named it 148 St. because most
IRT people associate "149 St." with the big transfer station in the
Bronx. So they picked one number away so it would not be confusing. I
have no evidence that this is the reason, just a guess. Kinda like 241
St. at White Plains Rd, and 242 St-Broadway.
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NEXT>9591
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service +
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:16 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 13:08:47:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 24hr Service posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
09, 1998 at 11:28:53:
3a) Oh yeah the G train section from Court Sq. to Queens Plaza.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9590
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
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SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service +
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:19 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 09, 1998 at 13:09:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 24hr Service posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
09, 1998 at 11:28:53:
3a) Oh yeah the G train section from Court Sq. to Queens Plaza.
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NEXT>9610
PREVIOUS>9574
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:24 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 09, 1998 at 13:30:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by John B.
Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 10:56:58:
> (Every line but the Blue could be run either over the Loop L or
through the State Street Subway at will.)
Except that for the Orange line it would involve a backup move!
And the Yellow line trains (Skokie Swift) can't use the subway because
the pantographs won't fit the tunnel clearences (but it just runs as a
shuttle to Howard anyway).
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9533
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Salt & Third Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:28 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 13:36:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Salt & Third Rail posted by STEVE on February 05,
1998 at 16:20:50:
From the Chicago Public Library web site history of Chicago, at:
http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/snowstorms.html
"The Blizzard of 1979 started on Friday night January 12 and lasted
until 2 a.m. Sunday January 14. On top of a 7-10 inch base left over
from a New Year's Eve blizzard, 20.3 inches of new snow fell--setting
a record for total snow on the ground.
"Transportation again came to a standstill for several days.
***Deicing salt caused electrical motor failures on trains running in
expressway medians.*** These lines had all started operation since
1968. Therefore, unlike previous storms, rapid transit service, as
well as buses, cars and planes came to a halt. Aside from
transportation problems, garbage piled up, rats flourished and
cemeteries delayed burials by several weeks. Popular wisdom attributes
the February 27 electorial defeat of Mayor Bilandic to the
difficulties the city had in dealing with the storm."
My emphasis added. Incidentally, I would think it a slight
exaggeration to say, unmodified, that "rapid transit service ... came
to a halt." The lines now called the Purple and Brown would be able to
operate, as would the Lake Street L, the Englewood-Jackson Park L, and
the Howard-Harrison St. L-subway. The Red Line now is Howard-Dan Ryan
(L-subway-median) while the Green is Lake-Engelwood-Jackson Park (all
L). But before 1993, it was Howard-Engelwood-Jackson Park (L-subway-L)
and Lake-Dan Ryan (L-median). You would have service to the north
unaffected, and to the west and south with one line instead of two (no
south Dan Ryan and no west Congress- Douglas). The real loss would be
northwest, along the Kennedy Expy. median, now part of the Blue Line.
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NEXT>9604
PREVIOUS>9583
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:31 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 13:39:28:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Gary Jacobi on February 09, 1998 at 12:57:09:
I'm not saying it's a TOTAL non-issue, but the argument for the tram
is that it is fully accessible. The Subway, as far as Roosevelt Island
is concerned, is accessible at the Island, and at 63st/lex, where they
can transfer to a bus, same as they would do if they took the tram.
-Hank
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NEXT>9596
PREVIOUS>9471
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:33 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 13:41:18:
In Reply to: [8]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Charles Webb on February 06,
1998 at 15:05:34:
Chicago's rapid transit, or "L" cars, are 48 feet long and somewhere
around 9 feet wide, although most of them have tapered sides. CTA has
stuck with a length of 48 feet, even though the State St. and Dearborn
St. subways have clearances which would permit longer cars. This is
because some of the elevated structures still in use have very sharp
curves, which would prevent the use of longer cars. This way, all cars
can operate on all lines. In addition, all cars built since 1964,
beginning with the 2000 series, can run in multiple unit with each
other, although I'm not sure about the newest 3200 series cars, which
were designed for one-man operation.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9595
POSTER>Steve B
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SUBJECT>Re: TRACK GAUGE
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:35 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at 13:48:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: TRACK GAUGE posted by Charles Webb on February 06,
1998 at 15:05:34:
Chicago's rapid transit, or "L" cars, are 48 feet long and somewhere
around 9 feet wide, although most of them have tapered sides. CTA has
stuck with a length of 48 feet, even though the State St. and Dearborn
St. subways have clearances which would permit longer cars. This is
because some of the elevated structures still in use have very sharp
curves, which would prevent the use of longer cars. This way, all cars
can operate on all lines. In addition, all cars built since 1964,
beginning with the 2000 series, can run in multiple unit with each
other, although I'm not sure about the newest 3200 series cars, which
were designed for one-man operation.
As for New York, there are two sets of specifications for subway cars.
Cars used on the IRT division (numbered routes) are 51 feet long and 8
feet, 9 inches wide, while cars used on the BMT and IND divisions
(lettered routes) are 10 feet wide and either 60 feet or 75 feet long.
There are two or three lines which cannot use the 75-foot cars: the
J/Z, L, and possibly the M.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>John Stewart
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dual Contracts -- More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:37 1998
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Posted by John Stewart on February 09, 1998 at 13:52:03:
In Reply to: [7]More Subway & El Books posted by Mellow One on
February 07, 1998 at 22:56:10:
Yes, I'm in the process of reading "722 Miles" by Clifton Hood. I'm
almost finished, and I have to say the book is outstanding. The never
really understood the entire Dual Contracts concept until I read it.
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NEXT>9600
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mitch
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Metrocard math quiz
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:39 1998
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Posted by Mitch on February 09, 1998 at 14:04:38:
When the Metrocard was first introduced (and the fare was $1.25), the
MTA ran a discount of $1 a trip on a few weekends if you used the
Metrocard. I did so once, and as a result, wound up with a 25-cent
balance on my Metrocard when it ran down. Since then, I've added more
money, and transferred old Metrocards to new ones, and I still have
that pesky extra 25 cents floating around on the card.
When the 10% bonus rule began in January, I wondered what I'd have to
add to the Metrocard to reduce the excess balance to zero (short of
throwing the card away). It turns out you can't reduce it to zero, but
you can reduce it to 5 cents. What is the minimum amount that I have
to add to the Metrocard to do so?
The answer's not straightforward. It took me much of a delayed subway
ride to figure it out.
P.S. I'm not that hard up for money -- it's the game.
--Mitch
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NEXT>9616
PREVIOUS>9563
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:41 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 09, 1998 at 14:59:23:
In Reply to: [7]Re: R1-R9's posted by Dan Schwartz on February 07,
1998 at 19:48:01:
My God, you mean that as a kid I was that close to applying the
brakes! I recognized the need to engage the dog, but never persisted
in cranking long enough to engage the wheels, thank heavens. Surely
there were more persistant little bastards who did?
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NEXT>9603
PREVIOUS>9598
POSTER>Mark Goldey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:43 1998
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Posted by Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 15:02:26:
In Reply to: [8]Metrocard math quiz posted by Mitch on February 09,
1998 at 14:04:38:
Ok, I'll bite.
Maybe I missed something in the question, but:
1)Add $1.25 to the card. That'll bring the balance to zero after the
first use. Or, add $3.75, or $5.25 . . .
2) To bring the balance down to zero by taking advantage of the
discounts, you would need to add $15 to get the 10% discount, and then
enough $ to make up $1.25 in free metrocash. That would mean adding
enough $$$ to get a 10% discount equal to $1.25, which is simply an
extra $12.50, for a total addition of $27.50.
BTW, can you get the discount on an original (blue) metrodcard?
OK, what did I miss?
--mhg
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mitch
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:45 1998
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Posted by Mitch on February 09, 1998 at 15:51:52:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Metrocard math quiz posted by Mark Goldey on
February 09, 1998 at 15:02:26:
I was under the mistaken impression that you could only add whole
dollar increments to the Metrocard. (I seem to remember reading that
once in a brochure). After I read your reply, I called the Metrocard
hot line and they said you can (now?) add money in increments of 25
cents. So, it wasn't a problem at all!
Does anyone else remember reading about only being able to add whole
dollar increments to a Metrocard, or was I hallucinating?
--Mitch
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NEXT>9608
PREVIOUS>9561
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:47 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 09, 1998 at 15:54:00:
In Reply to: [8]New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 02:24:10:
I guess those signs are for use during the Lenox Ave. construction, so
that the trains running on Lexington Ave. in the direction in which
there is no service on Lenox Ave. do not have to be labeled as "2"
trains.
It sounds like good planning. I wonder if they will actually be used,
though, since they have already announced that the "2" will operate
via Lexington Ave. under the circumstances desribed. It would
certainly make sense to use them, especially to distinguish the
rerouted trains from the "few" trains that will run on the original
route during reverse-peak hours.
On the general subject of unusual signs, on Sunday I rode past the
Unionport yard (just north of 180th St.) and noticed that, on a train
of R-62a's parked there, one of the cars had a numeric roll-sign
reading not "5" but "11" (actually, an upside-down "11"). It was
colored purple, like the "7" train. I was wondering what the plan
might have been for these signs. Does anyone know
(1) how high do the numbers go on these signs, and
(2) what colors are assigned to the various unused numbers (8, 10 and
up)?
Was there a plan to assign new numbers to certain versions of the
basic routes used today, such as the Flushing express becoming the
"11" train while the Flushing local remained as the "7"?
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NEXT>9682
PREVIOUS>9600
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:49 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 09, 1998 at 16:10:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Metrocard math quiz posted by Mark Goldey on
February 09, 1998 at 15:02:26:
I think he may be assuming that money can only be added to Metrocards
in whole-dollar amounts. I wasn't sure myself if adding amounts other
than whole dollars is allowed.
I know you can't put less than $3 on a card at one time (or can
you--does the the $3 minimum apply only to new purchases?) This means
that, if someone has only $1.50 in his pocket and wants to take a ride
that requires both a train and a bus, he is out of luck. He needs $3
to get a Metrocard that would let him make the free transfer; he also
would need $3 to make the ride without a Metrocard. If they ever want
to eliminate tokens, they need to let people buy $1.50 Metrocards.
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NEXT>9605
PREVIOUS>9594
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:52 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 16:35:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 09, 1998 at 13:39:28:
One thing to keep in mind is that the "accessibility" of stations can
be a rather tenuous thing. I don't know of any that have more than one
elevator per platform, and if subway elevators are as "reliable" as
the escalators ...
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NEXT>9606
PREVIOUS>9604
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:55 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 09, 1998 at 17:11:23:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 12:14:11:
I have always wondered who had the bright idea of building a bridge
between Queens and Roosevelt Island and not Manhattan and Roosevelt
Island. I'm sure property value would be 10 times or more as high on
the island if this were the case. I'd say this was a case of very poor
planning transportation-wise.
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NEXT>9607
PREVIOUS>9605
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:57 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 09, 1998 at 17:13:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 16:35:57:
...or as safe....
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NEXT>9609
PREVIOUS>9606
POSTER>Mark Goldey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:34:59 1998
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Posted by Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 17:17:34:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Adam on February 09, 1998 at 17:11:23:
Agreed. But, such a bridge would be over navigable waters, would have
to meet the approval of the Army Corp. of Engineers, would have to
have sufficient clearance to permit marine traffic, and would
therefore cost lots and lots of bucks. Thus, no bridge.
--mhg
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NEXT>9686
PREVIOUS>9602
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:03 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 09, 1998 at 17:51:15:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 09, 1998 at 15:54:00:
I do hope the signs are used, as it is a good idea. During the early
1980's the Lenox Ave line was shut down on weekends (for major work)
and all #2 trains operated via Lexington Ave and many of the cars
still had the older route signs without the route number. At that time
many of the #2 trains would display "Lexington Ave Express".
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NEXT>9615
PREVIOUS>9607
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:07 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 17:53:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 17:17:34:
[re why no Manhattan-Roosevelt Island bridge]
>Agreed. But, such a bridge would be over navigable waters, would have
to >meet the approval of the Army Corp. of Engineers, would have to
have >sufficient clearance to permit marine traffic, and would
therefore cost >lots and lots of bucks. Thus, no bridge.
In addition, the bridge would have to be a lot longer than the current
one to Queens. It would also have to either connect with or go over
the FDR Drive.
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NEXT>9631
PREVIOUS>9592
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:11 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 17:58:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Ed Sachs on
February 09, 1998 at 13:30:12:
>Except that for the Orange line it would involve a backup move!
How so? Isn't the merge of the Green and Orange Lines south of the old
Howard-Engelwood-Jackson Park portal & ramp, so that the Orange can go
into the subway tunnel where the South Side L used to? (Note that the
old portal is north and a good bit east of the new subway portal,
where the Red Line passes over a short modern L to the Chinatown
station and on to the Dan Ryan median line.)
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NEXT>9637
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dr Testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Radio Frequency
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:14 1998
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Posted by Dr Testa on February 09, 1998 at 18:07:28:
What is the Radio frequency for the Norristown High speed line?
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NEXT>9614
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>BJ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>?'s of Safety on CTA?
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:18 1998
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Posted by BJ on February 09, 1998 at 18:46:38:
I don't know if everyone heard, but yesterday 2/8/98 around 7 pm on
the green line's Pulaski station eastbound platform a station agent
was raped and robbed and is now recovering in the hospital.
The station is located on the West Side of the city in an area that
isn't to great.
This has rasied security question's.
I defintely think that after dark there should be security guards on
force that know how to sell transit cards and take cash fares.
Station agents should only be on duty during the daylight hours and
the rush hours.
The CTA is currently reviewing a security plan and is proabaly going
to give the station agents portable radios so they can contact
security when they are out of their both helping people.
I think that cash fares shouldn't even be collected anymore and you
should be able to buy a fare card for as little as 1.50
I'm not trying to discourage you from ridding the green line, just
don't ride at night alone.
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NEXT>9620
PREVIOUS>9578
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:20 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 09, 1998 at 19:08:48:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by david vartanoff
on February 09, 1998 at 02:49:25:
I also wondered why York Street Station was there, until I got out
once and looked around. A sign in tile said this way to the Brooklyn
Navy Yard, which once employed tens of thousands. Thank goodness New
York City has been able to replace its lost manufacturing jobs -- the
number of production workers fell from 750,000 at the peak to perhaps
150,000 today -- with other things. Otherwise, every station would be
York Street.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9612
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: ?'s of Safety on CTA?
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:23 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 19:09:34:
In Reply to: [8]?'s of Safety on CTA? posted by BJ on February 09,
1998 at 18:46:38:
"I think that cash fares shouldn't even be collected anymore and you
should be able to buy a fare card for as little as 1.50"
On the CTA, since the Transit Card system went into effect, the
station agents no longer accept cash fares. If someone is paying cash,
or with tokens, they must put exact fare ***in the cash turnstile***.
You cannot enter by way of the station agent's booth anymore.
The station agent can only assist passengers with the use of the
Transit Card machine (which is what the Green Line station agent was
doing when she was attacked) and card-operated turnstiles, give out
maps, and answer the usual "how do I get to...?" questions.
And I'm pretty sure you can put quarters in the Transit Card machine,
so cards with as little as $1.50 on them are very possible.
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NEXT>9622
PREVIOUS>9609
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:27 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 09, 1998 at 19:18:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 12:14:11:
I also thought whether the subway link supports itself or not and came
tot he realization that it likely does not. However, the subway link
has the potential to serve more customers, more conveniently than the
tram and therefore, more cose effective than the tram. Granted, the
tram is more scenic but once you get to 2nd Ave- that's it. For the
same cost, the subway gives you access to the rest of the city. If in
fact, the subway link loses money, that is no fiscal justification for
continuing the tram. The last thing we need in NYC is a choice of
holes into which we can throw our money.
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NEXT>9621
PREVIOUS>9599
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:29 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 09, 1998 at 19:21:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Gary Jacobi on February 09, 1998
at 14:59:23:
Meet a little bastard who stupidly did exactly that, so you wouldn't
have been the first.
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NEXT>9654
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dr testa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Marker Lights on Septa's BSS
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:32 1998
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Posted by Dr testa on February 09, 1998 at 19:38:24:
What are the other 3 marker lights on the Broad Street cars and what
do they mean? I know green is for express and yellow is the Ridge Ave
Spur.
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NEXT>9625
PREVIOUS>9575
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:36 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 09, 1998 at 19:40:39:
In Reply to: [7]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by THE EXPRESS
TRAIN on February 05, 1998 at 15:44:07:
I think a cursory review of transit accident photos, which are all too
available, would change your mind. Falling 30 feet off a structure is
no fun trip, but it does beat stopping in five feet after snagging a
column, which is the usual fate of a car derailing in the subway. Look
at Malbone Street; if the derailment had occurred closer to Franklin
Ave, even on the elevated ramp, the loss of life would have been much
less. However, I do agree with your opinion of how ugly most els are,
having grown up within sight of the old Fulton St structure.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9482
POSTER>Gary K
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Security in Septa's Subway system
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:43 1998
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Posted by Gary K on February 09, 1998 at 20:02:44:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Security in Septa's Subway system posted by Jim on
February 07, 1998 at 00:34:14:
You have to be nuts riding the subway past 7:30 p.m. unless you have a
gun of some sort on you. There is no such thing as security with septa
unless your trying to take one lousy photograph of the old Market
Frakford cars then ten cops show up giving you a hard time.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9613
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Stations
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:47 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 20:17:04:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Underutilized Stations posted by Larry Littlefield
on February 09, 1998 at 19:08:48:
While the Brooklyn Navy Yard no longer operates as such, a variety of
mostly smaller businesses now occupy much of its space. Obviously, the
employment numbers don't compare to the Navy Yard's at the peak of its
operations, but they surely aren't trivial. I'm surprised that the
workers at those places don't use York Street station more often.
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NEXT>9623
PREVIOUS>9616
POSTER>Mike B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:51 1998
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Posted by Mike B on February 09, 1998 at 20:46:36:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Steve B on February 09, 1998 at
08:39:53:
Thanks for all of the quick responses about the handbrake.
One question though, I never saw any handbrakes in the cars beginning
with the R-10 all the way through today. Where is the handbrake
today??
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NEXT>9649
PREVIOUS>9615
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:35:56 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 21:27:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Steve on February 08, 1998 at 21:05:49:
[re safety of Queensbridge station]
>Not quite so. The station was built under a city housing project
>(Queensbridge houses, I think). The station, as the surrounding area
are >overrun by drugs, prostitution and other crimes.
Those of us who frequent misc.transport.urban-transit know exactly the
right comment: PS8S _LOOT_ rail:-)
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NEXT>9624
PREVIOUS>9621
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:36:01 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 09, 1998 at 21:30:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Mike B on February 09, 1998 at
20:46:36:
I believe it's in the motorman's cab, low down and to the left of the
operator as (s)he is facing the controls.
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NEXT>9672
PREVIOUS>9623
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:36:05 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 09, 1998 at 23:51:28:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Mike B on February 09, 1998 at
20:46:36:
Beginning with R-10, the handbrake was on the #1 end of the car
outside the #1 storm door, in a pocket on the side opposite the cab.
The handbrake was put in the cabs on R-44 & R-46 A cars as well as R68
and R-68A.
Warning - Do not try to crank one up. A light illuminates on the
Motorman's and Conductors panel as soon as any hand brake handle is
lifted.
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NEXT>9643
PREVIOUS>9618
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 14 17:36:07 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 09, 1998 at 23:55:26:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Gary Jacobi
on February 09, 1998 at 19:40:39:
Back in 1986, an R-46 went into the wall behind 179th street. The cab
from car #1054 ended up 25' into the car. You can't get that king of
excitement on an El.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9572
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Oops, sorry about my spelling.
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:30 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 10, 1998 at 00:44:30:
In Reply to: [8]Oops, sorry about my spelling. posted by Chris C. on
February 09, 1998 at 10:11:35:
axtually I used York for about 2 years, once every4-6 weeks calling on
a book wholesaler so I was there at random daylight hours M-F. In any
event I had forgotten the Navy Yard connection, but hope the service
will continue and the riders grow
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NEXT>9632
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:33 1998
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Posted by Sammy on February 10, 1998 at 04:08:38:
thank you for all of you who have posted about the underutilized
stations - especially 21st Van Alst on the G line and York Avenue on
the F line. I have one comment: the MTA should get their collective
heads out from up their behinds. Here's the deal. Areas like the Navy
Yard area and Greenpoint/Williamsburgh are in the midst of a strong
economic revival. Why? Its the first place people go when cheap(er)
housing and public transit ae available. Only, if it were up to the
idiots at the MTA, have the routes/stations wouldn't exist. And to
make it worse, service on some lines like the G is horrendous. That is
going to rob whatever economic benefits those areas gain. What a
shame. Look at housing prices: in the Navy Yard, you can get loft
space for less than $0.50 psf (per square foot). Bedford Avenue around
the L looks like the East Village. A two bedroom around the J at Marcy
Ave. went for $650 a month. What I'm tryong to point out is that we
have the power to change things and that mass transit is not for the
rich. Servcice to York St. should be increased, not decreased. Same on
the G. The G should be tied in to the 7 at Vernon Jackson. The D/Q/B
could run through a new Rutgers St. tunnel to the F line. Let's let
our voices be heard!!!!
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NEXT>9745
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>63rd St. Connection Construction
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:36 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 10, 1998 at 09:28:35:
On a rare weekday trip to NYC yesterday, I rode the E from Manhattan
to Roosevelt Ave. to catch the Q-33 for LGA. There is a new
configuration in place at the 63rd St. connection construction site
just north of Queens Plaza.
The old D-5 track, which was formerly used to relay/turn G trains at
Queens Plaza, is now the northbound express track for the E/F. Just
north of Queens Plaza the turnout remains, but all trains diverge to
the left. The track is now gone just past the switch on the former
express track. Construction is underway to make room for what will be
the incoming northbound track from the 63rd St. tunnel. Approaching
36th St., the track returns to the alignment of the old express track,
but there is no switch there at this time.
Sometime this spring, track D-1, leaving 36th street southbound is
supposed to be moved over to the right, and the existing D-1 will be
demolished to build a "down" track to go to 21st Street and then
through the 63rd Street connection.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9588
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs)
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:39 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 10, 1998 at 09:33:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on February 06, 1998 at 12:57:48:
I also like the idea of roller curtains on the bulkheads, and wish
they hadn't done away with bulkhead destination signs on newer rolling
stock in New York. I like to know where a train is headed to as it
pulls into a station. Those dot matrix signs on R-32s and R-38s are
almost impossible to decipher until the train has almost pulled up
next to you. The electronic signs on the sides of the R-44s and R-46s
are OK.
Here in Denver, buses have dot matrix signs on the front and side, and
are pretty legible (the background is dark). Our light rail vehicles
have roller curtains on the ends and both sides, and are
simultaneously controlled by the operator.
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NEXT>9655
PREVIOUS>9579
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:41 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 10, 1998 at 09:35:10:
In Reply to: [8]More Subway & El Books posted by Mellow One on
February 07, 1998 at 22:56:10:
Another one that gives great info about the Dual Contracts is
"Building the Independent Subway," which gives great info about why
the IND built where they did- not only to compete with the Dual lines,
but to go where they hadn't, i.e. the upper west side for example--
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NEXT>9644
PREVIOUS>9610
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:44 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 10, 1998 at 09:49:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by John B.
Bredin on February 09, 1998 at 17:58:11:
Forgot about that routing. I was thinking of the connectory to the Dan
Ryan line.
Also, the Lake St. branch of the Green line does not connect to the
subway. (However, the Dearborn/Blue line subway does have tunnel
headings going west on Lake St. where it curves northwest under
Milwaukee ave., which were intended for a possible future connection
to the Lake St. L).
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NEXT>9633
PREVIOUS>9627
POSTER>Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:47 1998
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Posted by Chris C. on February 10, 1998 at 09:50:05:
In Reply to: [7]Underutilized Station Redux posted by Sammy on
February 10, 1998 at 04:08:38:
Righ On!
I will not be satisfied untill all internal combustion traffic is
elimintated from all five counties. That means busses too! As far as
housing prices go, one theory is that increased subway service would
force rents up. I beleive this to be true to some extent. But also I
believe that better service to the outer boroughs will create housing
competition with Manhattan, bringing much more NYC housing costs to a
happier medium. I live on the F line. Making an uptown transfer tunnel
between Bleeker Street on the 6 and Broadway/Laffyette on the F would
drastically improve my quality of life, and everyone else along the F
and 6 lines. Money is no longer an excuse for something like digging a
simple pedestrian cross over.
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NEXT>9642
PREVIOUS>9632
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:49 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 10, 1998 at 10:23:24:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Underutilized Station Redux posted by Chris C. on
February 10, 1998 at 09:50:05:
"I will not be satisfied untill all internal combustion traffic is
elimintated from all five counties. That means busses too!"
What, now produce and other store merchandise can be delivered by
subway?? I presume you mean all **passenger** internal combustion
traffic. It would be a bit hard to eliminate truck traffic from the
city. Also, I would prefer the police, fire department, and EMS to be
able to use motor vehicles rather than answering calls on foot,
pulling their stretchers, medical equipment, hoses, and water pumps
behind them.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Distination Signs (was Re: Blue LED's)
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:52 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 10, 1998 at 10:25:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Blue LED's (was Destination Signs) posted by Steve
B on February 10, 1998 at 09:33:01:
The new Breda LRVs in San Francisco use curtains, and not LEDs to
display the route (E/J/K/L/M/N) and terminals. They are motorized, and
the proper combination is selected by the operator on his/her console.
When changed, the curtains (two per sign, one for route, the other
terminal) do a funky cat-chow-chow-chow up/down kind-of-thing trying
to align properly. It's pretty amusing to watch!
Boston's first Breda LRV, #3800, has recently arrived at Riverside
carhouse. I have not seen it yet, so I can't say what kind of signs it
has.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz - Sneaky Solution
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:54 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 10, 1998 at 10:27:47:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops! posted by Mitch on
February 09, 1998 at 15:51:52:
Heck, just use the card on a bus. When the driver sees that there is
only $.25 on the card, he will ask for the other $1.25 in coins. Just
pay it and now you have a zeroed out Metrocard.
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NEXT>9645
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Liliana Rossi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>train/subway car inspections & safety
DATE>Feb 14 17:37:57 1998
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Posted by Liliana Rossi on February 10, 1998 at 10:28:43:
Hi there! I was wondering if someone could help me out with some
research I`m doing on train/subway car inspections and maintenance,
particularly with regards to periodical check ups, supplies of parts,
and most importantly security measures that should be taken by workers
(as well as materials and other assistance guarranteed to be provided
by companies) in order to ensure proper operation of the railway
system, passenger safety, and protection of investments. The reason
I`m asking is because my friends in Buenos Aires, who are subway
maintenance workers, need to get their hands on some informations
regarding such standards of operations in some other major railway
systems in other parts of the world in order to justify their already
logical but too often unheard requests for sufficient time and propper
supplies and equipment in order to do their jobs according to safety
requirements. The subway companies in Argentina don`t seem to care
much about their workers (safety or even basic health conditions at
work), and so I thought they might point out how passenger safety is
compromised by substandard maintenance and poor working conditions of
operators and maintenace workers, not to mention how inefficiently
investors` moneys are being handled by neglecting the propper
maintenace of cars and tracks...
I`m obviously NOT knowledgeable at all on the matter, but would
greatly appreciate any help anyone might be able to offer, and my
friends would be most greatfull as well. I`ve been searching the net
trying to find some leads and found this group of yours which seemed
to be like a good start.
Thanks again.
One very confused person.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9611
POSTER>Lou From Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Radio Frequency
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:01 1998
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Posted by Lou From Brooklyn on February 10, 1998 at 10:42:39:
In Reply to: [8]Radio Frequency posted by Dr Testa on February 09,
1998 at 18:07:28:
Try this URL:
http://www.panix.com/clay/scanning/frequencies/new-york-city.shtml
Umm without the NYC part .
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Circular Routes - Even More
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:04 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 10, 1998 at 10:42:54:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Crazy route from 1930s? posted by Steve B on
February 09, 1998 at 09:16:42:
Not only is there are Circle Line Train in London, both clockwise and
counter-clockwise (which shares every station with either a District
or Metropolitan Line train), but in Glasgow, Scotland, the entire
subway system is a two-track circular line running around the center
of Glasgow. I think it is either 15 or 20 miles in length. It is about
100 years old and was completely rebuilt about 15-20 years ago.
Also the counterclockwise MetroMover in Miami is circular. The
clockwise used to be circular but with the opening of 2 branches has
become actually a combination of 2 routes, one that starts from the
south goes completely clockwise around to a point between two stations
and then goes back to the south, and one from the north that goes
completely around clockwise to a point between two stations and then
and returns to the north.
The U-Bahn in Hamburg, Germany, used to be a circular line. Now that
line has been broken up into two lines and extensions added. The
combined 3 U-Bahn lines in Hamburg form a C, a U, and a backwards C
around the center of the city, so a map of the Hamburg U-Bahn
(+S-Bahn) is at first really confusing, until you see the 3
semi-circles.
This is similar to how I get friends to understand the NYC subways. I
tell them to look at one color at a time and it suddenly seems clear.
Then I tell them to stick with the "yellow" one (N,R) if possible,
since it is a single line from 59/Lex to the Ferries.
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NEXT>9647
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou From Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!WAIT 10CENTS
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:06 1998
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Posted by Lou From Brooklyn on February 10, 1998 at 10:46:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops! posted by Mitch on
February 09, 1998 at 15:51:52:
Wait a minute!! Add only 25 cents, I mistakenly paid for $21 worth on
the metrocard after Jan 1 (thinking 14 rides) and now have 10 cents
(10% on that extra dollar) sitting on my metrocard.
Someone figure out what I have to add via 25 cents to get my 10 cents
BACK!!!!
LoL
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NEXT>9641
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:08 1998
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Posted by Nick on February 10, 1998 at 11:07:38:
Todays NY Times is reporting that a subway line will be closed for the
grammy's on Feb. 25th. It's on the cover of the metro section, in the
article about the mayors comments which may mean the Grammy's won't be
here next year. Anyone know why and which line will be shut down, and
how long it will be down for? The grammmy's is at MSG, so it must be
one of the subways that run by there.-Nick
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NEXT>9648
PREVIOUS>9640
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:10 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 11:53:59:
In Reply to: [7]Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Nick on
February 10, 1998 at 11:07:38:
Knowing of Rudy's temper, can you be sure it's not the whole system
being shut down?
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NEXT>9652
PREVIOUS>9633
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:22 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 12:01:49:
In Reply to: [7]Underutilized Station Redux posted by Sammy on
February 10, 1998 at 04:08:38:
It's not all that simple! A nice two bedroom in the Silicon Valley
goes for over $1,000, and transit is not a reliable alternative to
owning an automobile.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9625
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:25 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 10, 1998 at 12:08:36:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/5 Wakefield Yard Collision posted by Gary Jacobi
on February 09, 1998 at 19:40:39:
Keep in mind that wooden cars were involved in the Malbone St. wreck.
Most of the fatalities occurred in the second car, which derailed and
was destroyed when the third and fourth cars plowed through it. If
that had been a train of steel cars, chances are there would have been
fewer fatalities owing to the greater impact resistance of steel.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9631
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:27 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 10, 1998 at 12:30:44:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Ed Sachs on
February 10, 1998 at 09:49:54:
My mistake: you are correct about the Lake St. L being unconnected
directly with the State Street subway. A Lake Street train would have
to backtrack to enter the subway, by either going around the Loop, out
south and then reversing to enter the old south subway portal, or by
going north on the Brown-Purple to Armitage and then reversing to the
north portal.
However, if the tunnel headings by Lake Transfer were completed, and
the Lake Street trains could go underground, then every all-L line
could run in either the Blue or Red subways and the Red trains could
run over the Loop. Forest Park (Congress) and 54th Ave. (Douglas) Blue
trains could run up the non-revenue connection to Lake Street and
enter the Loop over the Green Line, but O'Hare Blue trains are cut off
from the Loop L unless they go through the Dearborn Street subway and
backtrack over the Congress route as described. And of course, if the
O'Hare trains can run through the Dearborn tunnel, there would be no
need for a reroute over the Loop L!
In short, when they had the flood a few years ago, the Red trains
could reroute over the Loop L but the Blue trains couldn't and had to
stop at the portals, passengers being carried by bus around the
flooded portion of the line.
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NEXT>9666
PREVIOUS>9636
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: train/subway car inspections & safety
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:31 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 10, 1998 at 12:35:28:
In Reply to: [8]train/subway car inspections & safety posted by
Liliana Rossi on February 10, 1998 at 10:28:43:
There are others in this group who are far more knowledgeable than I
in the subject of subway car maintenance and what is done, or what
should be done, at what interval; however, you could cite New York's
deferred maintenance example of the '70s as to what could happen to a
system if improper care is taken to its infrastructure. An average
subway car's mean time between failures was measured in the thousands
of miles in the early '80s, now it's above 100,000 miles. Graffiti
took its toll on equipment exteriors, making the subway appear even
more menacing than it was. That took ridership away. Track fires were
numerous because of insufficient security and the volume of litter
that contributed to other fires. Many area of the NY subway were given
10mph limits because the trackage some of the lines ran on was
considered unsafe above that speed. What customer, unless given no
other choice, would want to spend their money on services like those?
Not many, and as you could expect, ridership declined. That also meant
that farebox and token revenues declined, and, increased fares were
needed to make up the difference, further turning others away. Less
moeny was available for maintenance. In the 80s and through today, the
NY subway is in much better shape because money was finally spent on
improving the infrastructure. It's not perfect, but it's along long
way from what it was in the 70s.
--Mark
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PREVIOUS>9513
POSTER>Ian
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Transit Police
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:33 1998
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Posted by Ian on February 10, 1998 at 12:57:11:
In Reply to: [7]Transit Police posted by John Sullivan on February 07,
1998 at 22:53:04:
I live in Toronto, Ontario and the other day I saw two or three
officers in one of our subway stations with something to the effect of
"Transit Constables" or "Subway Officers" on the back of their
jackets. I was in a hurry and didn't pay too much attention but they
seemed authentic. As you may know, Toronto, including its subway, is
often used in films so they could've been actors, or on a more sombre
note, given the recent "subway shovings" occurring here, maybe the
time has come to recruit such a force to police the subways.
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NEXT>9650
PREVIOUS>9639
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!WAIT 10CENTS
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:36 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 10, 1998 at 13:04:29:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!WAIT 10CENTS posted
by Lou From Brooklyn on February 10, 1998 at 10:46:51:
$1.50
1.50 * .10 = .15, or 15 cents.
.10 + .15 = .25
So now you'll have 25 cents extra floating around...
I thought at first this was impossible, then I remembered the 10%
addition...
Or, just whip out your Ti-82 and set Y1 to .1 + (.1X)
set the table to Idepedent = Ask
open the table and solve for X, where both X and Y are muliples of .25
I'm sure somebody out there could work up and equation that would
ALWAYS solve this, but I've got english in 20 min, and I havn't eaten
yet....
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NEXT>9678
PREVIOUS>9641
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:38 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 10, 1998 at 13:23:37:
In Reply to: [8]Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Nick on
February 10, 1998 at 11:07:38:
I read that article, and I'm convinced that the Times made a mistake.
There is no conceivable reason to shut down an entire _line_ on
account of the Grammys show or any other activity. At first I thought
that maybe the show's organizers had asked for the line closure in
order to prevent subway noise from disturbing the show. But no, that
wouldn't make sense, MSG has hosted countless musical events and no
one has ever complained about subway noise as far as I know.
What would make more sense is if a subway _entrance_ is closed to
avoid interference with the Grammy's crowds. Even that's somewhat
doubtful because MSG handles sellout crowds all the time. Anyway, if
there are plans to close an entrance, it presumably would be on the
8th Avenue line, that being closer to the MSG entrances. As I use the
7th Avenue entrances to Penn Station, I don't know what entrance would
be closed, if that is the case at all.
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NEXT>9651
PREVIOUS>9622
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:39 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 13:55:40:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 17:53:03:
I'm not sure that it is still in use, but the Queensboro bridge had an
elevator capable of transferring ambulances from it's deck down to the
island.
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PREVIOUS>9647
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!WAIT 10CENTS
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:41 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 14:02:29:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Metrocard math quiz - whoops!WAIT 10CENTS posted
by Philip Nasadowski on February 10, 1998 at 13:04:29:
What's this about using TI-82's to solve problems your brain can
handle? 10% is all the equation needed; whatever amount you need to
add to a card will be added by the 10% bonus, if you put 10X that
amount in cash into the card.
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NEXT>9692
PREVIOUS>9649
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:44 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 10, 1998 at 14:18:53:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 13:55:40:
That ambulance elevator has been gone for many years.
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NEXT>9658
PREVIOUS>9642
POSTER>Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:46 1998
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Posted by Chris C. on February 10, 1998 at 14:25:40:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Underutilized Station Redux posted by John B.
Bredin on February 10, 1998 at 10:23:24:
I MEAN ALL INTERNAL COMBUSTION!!!
Stay tuned for my comprehensive plan!
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NEXT>9657
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Dwayne J.Davis
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>mass transit{ rail transportation}cities
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:48 1998
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Posted by Dwayne J.Davis on February 10, 1998 at 14:33:57:
I'm doing a report on the benefits of mass transit. Especially rail
transit! I am looking for sources on the history and developmet of
rail transit and how it benefited growing cities. I need some internet
sources that I can download. Thank you!
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NEXT>9723
PREVIOUS>9617
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker Lights on Septa's BSS
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:50 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 10, 1998 at 14:58:47:
In Reply to: [7]Marker Lights on Septa's BSS posted by Dr testa on
February 09, 1998 at 19:38:24:
Do you mean on the front of the cars or on the sides? Either way, I
think it's:
White: Broad Street Local
Green: Broad St. Express
Amber: Ridge Avenue Local or Express
Blue: Pattison Avenue Event Express
(Red: Back of the Train Marker Lights if you mean the end of the car)
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NEXT>9665
PREVIOUS>9630
POSTER>Ian
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:52 1998
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Posted by Ian on February 10, 1998 at 15:01:26:
In Reply to: [7]Re: More Subway & El Books posted by Lou from
Middletown on February 10, 1998 at 09:35:10:
Do you know who the author and publisher are of this book?
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NEXT>9661
PREVIOUS>10039
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:55 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 10, 1998 at 15:10:50:
In today's NYTimes, there is an article that the FAA has voted to use
airport passenger money to build a light rail line from Howard Beach
to JFK airport and from Jamaica (LIRR,E,J,Z) also to JFK. Airport
money can be spent off the grounds because there will only be those
two stops outside the airport, so the airport will be the light rail
line's only destination.
Interestingly, I can speculate that people who live in the Rockaways
or Howard Beach and Ozone Park may take the light rail train into the
airport, then transfer to the Light Rail train to Jamaica. Then there
will be complaints from the "anti-convenience patrol", the way they
complained about commuters using the Dulles Airport Access Highway to
drive to Washington without paying the toll or using the airport.
State troopers with binoculars recorded license plate numbers of
people going into the airport then right out again to go to
Washington, and gave them tickets. Maybe here we will have to sign an
affidavit to get on a light rail line at the airport to affirm we
didn't just come from Howard Beach.
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NEXT>9662
PREVIOUS>9653
POSTER>John Stewart
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mass transit{ rail transportation}cities
DATE>Feb 14 17:38:58 1998
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Posted by John Stewart on February 10, 1998 at 15:36:45:
In Reply to: [7]mass transit{ rail transportation}cities posted by
Dwayne J.Davis on February 10, 1998 at 14:33:57:
If you haven't discovered it already, you should read the following
book: "722 Miles" by by Clifton Hood, 1993. It deals specifically with
the topic of the history and development of the New York City subway
in the context of its contribution to improving quality of life,
benefiting growth, etc. Good luck.
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NEXT>9669
PREVIOUS>9652
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:01 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 10, 1998 at 15:40:58:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Underutilized Station Redux posted by Chris C. on
February 10, 1998 at 14:25:40:
Do tell!!!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9576
POSTER>DB
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Speed in Septas Tunnels
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:03 1998
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Posted by DB on February 10, 1998 at 15:50:29:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Speed in Septas Tunnels posted by Andrew Byler on
February 09, 1998 at 11:23:55:
I disagree with the posted speed on the MFSE - though I have no proof
- - -
Between 15 and 30 st I have heard that 60+ is standard - esp on the
new M-4s. Perhaps the Budds are limited so they don't fly apart.
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NEXT>9667
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Simon B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:06 1998
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Posted by Simon B on February 10, 1998 at 15:54:28:
Living in England and not knowing a lot about the subway can someone
let me know what lines are running R33s and R36s, and how many cars
are still left in service.
Many thanks
Simon
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NEXT>9676
PREVIOUS>9656
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:09 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 16:14:35:
In Reply to: [7]NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 10, 1998 at 15:10:50:
Please, Carl, don't give them any ideas! The people who worry about
"Misuse of funds" are capable of just such nonsense!
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NEXT>9663
PREVIOUS>9657
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mass transit{ rail transportation}cities
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:10 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 16:20:22:
In Reply to: [7]mass transit{ rail transportation}cities posted by
Dwayne J.Davis on February 10, 1998 at 14:33:31:
I think you will have more luck correlating transit with development
if you concentrate on the Trolley building era. There are many good
books, such as "The time of the Trolley" in most libraries.
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PREVIOUS>9662
POSTER>Michael S. Buglak
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: mass transit{ rail transportation}cities
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:15 1998
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Posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 10, 1998 at 16:28:15:
In Reply to: [8]mass transit{ rail transportation}cities posted by
Dwayne J.Davis on February 10, 1998 at 14:33:57:
The American Public Transit Association has an excellent website with
many links to transit agencies, suppliers, etc.
www.apta.org
Good Luck! - Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9673
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Joe
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:24 1998
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Posted by Joe on February 10, 1998 at 16:51:57:
Hi everyone. I was just having a look at the PDF map on the official
MTA website.
(Address:http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/Subway/submapdf.htm)
This is a great map, but there's one problem - you can't print it! I
don't know why the MTA would put that restriction on it, but it's
there and it's a pain in the rear. This map would be really nice to
print, leave on the desk, and look at whenever.
Does anyone know how to circumvent this, or where to get a paper map
of the same quality? Thanks---
Joe
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NEXT>9834
PREVIOUS>9655
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:29 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on February 10, 1998 at 16:58:06:
In Reply to: [8]Re: More Subway & El Books posted by Ian on February
10, 1998 at 15:01:26:
We have a pretty complete bibliography of subway books online at
[9]http://www.nycsubway.org/biblio/. All of the books mentioned in
this discussion are listed, with links to Amazon.COM where available
so you can order them online. (And no, I don't get any kickbacks from
them!)
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NEXT>9687
PREVIOUS>9645
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: train/subway car inspections & safety
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:32 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 10, 1998 at 17:19:00:
In Reply to: [8]Re: train/subway car inspections & safety posted by
Mark S Feinman on February 10, 1998 at 12:35:28:
You have to remember that New York nearly went bankrupt during the
70s; that's why plans for expansion, as well as completion of the 2nd
Ave line., were put on indefinite hold, and deferred subway
maintenence became commonplace.
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NEXT>9668
PREVIOUS>9660
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:36 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 10, 1998 at 17:20:09:
In Reply to: [7]R33s and R36s posted by Simon B on February 10, 1998
at 15:54:28:
Simon,
First, there are two types of R-33 and R-36 cars. They are mainline
and Worlds Fair (#7) versions. Mainline routes are #'s 1-7 and the
S-Times Sqare/Grand Central Shuttle
Nearly all of cars of both the R-33 and R-36 are still operating.
The R-33 - There were 540 of them (8806-9345) 8806-9305 are mainline
cars that currently operate on the #2,4 and occasionally the #5 line.
They operate in married pairs. 9306-9345 are th World's Fair version
and they have spent their entire career on the #7 Flushing line. These
cars are single units which are used to make 11-cars trains on the #7
line. So a typical #7 train will have 10 R-36's plus one R-33. This is
the only NYCTAline the has 11-car trains. These cars usually do not
operate in the summer as they are not air-conditioned.
R-36 (9346-9523, 9558-9769) These are the Worlds Fair version of the
R-36. All R-36's including mainline cars are married pairs. They are
assigned to the #7 line also. At different times a few have escaped to
the mainline routes.
9524-9557 are mainline R-36's. Most (possibly all) are now on the #7
line, but they originally operated on mainline routes. They look
identical to the mainline R-33's. As far as the body is concerned the
only way to distinguish between it and an R-33 is by the car number.
The Worlds Fair cars were originally painted in a really neat Blue and
white paint scheme. They also have windows in a small section at the
top tilt in - similar to the windows on London Transports' buses.
The mainline cars originally had windows in which the top half dropped
down to open. They have since been replaced with tilt in type windows.
Hope this explains it for you.
Wayne
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NEXT>9694
PREVIOUS>9667
POSTER>Simon B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:42 1998
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Posted by Simon B on February 10, 1998 at 17:35:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Wayne Johnson on February
10, 1998 at 17:20:09:
Wayne,
Thank you so much for your insight. It is almost impossible to get
information on the subway over here.
The R33 and R36 cars for me typify the whole look of the subway which
has such a metropolitan feel.
I was fortunate to spend a few days in NY last October and spent a lot
of time travelling the subway.
It seemed as clean if not cleaner than the London Underground. We
certainly saw no crime of which we were warned about before leaving
England.
I am planning another trip in a month or so time. If anyone can
suggest an itinery of interesting subway sights I would be grateful.
Similarly if anyone wants information on the London Underground I will
do my best.
Thanks
Simon
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NEXT>9689
PREVIOUS>9658
POSTER>Droo
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:46 1998
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Posted by Droo on February 10, 1998 at 18:27:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Underutilized Station Redux posted by Chris C. on
February 10, 1998 at 14:25:40:
Let me guess.. you've found the solution to the problems plaguing the
builders of electric/solar vehicles?
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NEXT>9671
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>BJ
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: to John B. Brendin
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:50 1998
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Posted by BJ on February 10, 1998 at 18:40:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: ?'s of Safety on CTA? posted by John B. Bredin on
February 09, 1998 at 19:09:34:
No, you can't purchase a transit card for as little as 1.50
If you have ever tried to buy one, the machine says 3.00 and minuses
from the until you have reached 0
I haven;t paid a cash fare in such a long time, I thought they still
took them!
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NEXT>9677
PREVIOUS>9670
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: to John B. Brendin
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:53 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 10, 1998 at 18:43:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: to John B. Brendin posted by BJ on February 10,
1998 at 18:40:57:
My mistake: you are right that you have to buy at least $3.00 when you
originally buy the Transit Card.
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NEXT>9675
PREVIOUS>9624
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:56 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 10, 1998 at 18:47:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Steve on February 09, 1998 at
23:51:28:
Okay, I remember seeing the handbrakes where you mention, but tell me
this: I remember talking once to a motorman in his cab, and I asked
what the handle was that was just behind the cab doorjamb, and he told
me it was a hand brake. I seem to remember the train being either an
R-32 or R-38, but it might have been an R-40. Too bad I was just a
kid!
Am I crazy? Does anyone know the handle I'm talking about?
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NEXT>9702
PREVIOUS>9664
POSTER>Allan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 14 17:39:59 1998
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Posted by Allan on February 10, 1998 at 19:29:58:
In Reply to: [8]NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website posted by Joe on
February 10, 1998 at 16:51:57:
If you had Adobe Acrobat you would be able to print it. Using the Free
Adobe reader will allow you do just that - READ IT!!.
That map is old (9/97). There are still copies at some token booths
(many have the new issue "the Map").
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NEXT>9816
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>NY TIMES made a mistake...God forbid
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:05 1998
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Posted by George on February 10, 1998 at 19:30:46:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Peter
Rosa on February 10, 1998 at 13:23:37:
Didn't the Times once call Castro the Robin Hood of Latin America.
Still it is hard to believe that I whole line would be closed for an
event. I recall this happening during the Presidential Conventions
which would call for tight security.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9672
POSTER>Mike B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R1-R9's
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:11 1998
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Posted by Mike B on February 10, 1998 at 20:22:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Timothy Speer on February 09,
1998 at 21:30:11:
When would the handbrake normally be used??
In emergencies??
In terminals??
In the yard/layup tracks??
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NEXT>9679
PREVIOUS>9661
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:14 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 10, 1998 at 20:25:01:
In Reply to: [7]NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 10, 1998 at 15:10:50:
I'm glad to hear about the road to Dulles. I thought the FAA stupidity
was limited to mass transit. I've often held that the city should sue
to require barriers between on-airport roads and area highways. Under
the current rules, people should have to use one set of cars on the
airport, walk across the barrier, then use another set of cars off the
airport. If we can't connect, they can't connect.
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NEXT>9724
PREVIOUS>9671
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: to John B. Brendin
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:18 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 10, 1998 at 20:27:52:
In Reply to: [8]Re: to John B. Brendin posted by John B. Bredin on
February 10, 1998 at 18:43:21:
>My mistake: you are right that you have to buy at least $3.00 when
you >originally buy the Transit Card.
That's the same situation as with New York's MetroCard - even though
the fare is $1.50, there's a $3.00 minimum on initial purchases (but
not on refills).
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NEXT>9704
PREVIOUS>9648
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:21 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 10, 1998 at 20:29:07:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Peter
Rosa on February 10, 1998 at 13:23:37:
Whenever I read the New York Times on a subject on which I have
personal knowledge (as a result of my job), I find it is wrong -- not
often in the basic point, but always in important details.
Yet whenever I read the times about something I know nothing about, I
assume it is completely true and accurate.
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NEXT>9685
PREVIOUS>9676
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:23 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 10, 1998 at 20:32:44:
In Reply to: [8]NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 10, 1998 at 15:10:50:
Also see the Daily News online. They have a story on the new rail
system that will be built. The URL is www.mostnewyork.com
The charge will be $5/person for use of the light rail to and from
Jamaica and the Howard Beach subway stop but will be free for the loop
that runs in the airport connecting all of the terminals. I applaud
the efforts of the state lawmakers in making this possible. I'll be
happy to let some of my airfare go towards this project that has been
long-needed at JFK.
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NEXT>9683
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Rangerboy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>New S train to 21 st
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:25 1998
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Posted by Rangerboy on February 10, 1998 at 20:33:47:
Is there a new shuttle running to queensbridge? When do the new maps
come out?
thanks
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NEXT>9695
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Fred Zaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:27 1998
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Posted by Fred Zaron on February 10, 1998 at 20:37:21:
Anyone have any updated info on the automation of the L line?The last
I heard was a 'moving block' system was being investigated. Thanks for
any responces.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9603
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Metrocard math quiz
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:30 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 10, 1998 at 20:39:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Metrocard math quiz posted by Mark Goldey on
February 09, 1998 at 15:02:26:
I have been looking for one of those original blue metrocards. I can't
find the one that I had saved and I'd really like to have another one.
If anybody has extra, can you please e-mail me and I'll buy it from
you for a good price. Thanks!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9680
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New S train to 21 st
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:34 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 10, 1998 at 20:44:19:
In Reply to: [8]New S train to 21 st posted by Rangerboy on February
10, 1998 at 20:33:47:
Take a look in the archives. We have recently had a lengthly
discussion on the new S train to Queensbridge. Due to repair of the
tracks, there is no B/Q service between 57th Street and Queensbridge.
A new Shuttle train, the S, is running from 57th Street/7th Avenue on
the N and R lines and then over to Queensbridge. It will run only once
every 20 minutes and will be in service I think until next Spring.
The new maps have come out already depicting this change in service.
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NEXT>9690
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:38 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 10, 1998 at 20:52:38:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIR trains posted by Hank Eisenstein on February
09, 1998 at 02:04:01:
I may be a little late to address this subject, but the SIRT -- and
all the stations on it -- are more under-utilized than any subway
station. According to NYMTC, the SIRT covers less than 10 percent of
its operating costs, compared with over 80 percent for the subway.
The problem is that the fixed costs of a rail line are high, but a
rail line can carry enormous numbers of people. When the number of
people to be carried is not enormous, unit costs are extreme. Staten
Island densities, while high by suburban standards, are far lower than
the rest of the city. The Islanders don't want them any higher -- they
want the whole borough downzoned. There is no place on Staten Island
with enough density to support rail at a reasonable cost.
I've been thinking about this lately. Suppose the SIRT was actually a
two lane highway limited to buses, like the busways in Pittsburg.
Large, articulated buses could replace the trains, and run the SIRT
route to the ferry. They could pull off where the stations are, and
load using those bus tubes from Brazil the city tried some years ago.
The buses could do what the SIRT does (they only run short trains
anyway), and with natural gas and (perhaps) fuel cells replacing
diesel the buses wouldn't be more obnoxious than electric trains.
AND if you added some entrances along the way, Staten Island express
buses could run express along the SIRT right of way, instead of
crawling in the traffic up Hylan Boulevard, then over the Verranzano
and up the Gowanus HOV lane. A train can't do that. Staten Island
could have its transit link. AND local buses, instead of crawling up
Bay Street to the ferry, could run perpendicular to the SIRT right of
way, up onto the right of way, then express to the ferry. AND the
busway could be extended along the north shore route. Express buses
could run across north shore neighborhoods, onto the busway, express
along the busway to the ferry, then express down to and over the
Verranzno.
A busway could be used by transit routes from all over the Island, a
more effective use of the right of way, and could provide a direct and
faster transit route to Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn via the
bridge. The SIRT can only be used by one route, and the cost per rider
to link it across the Narrows, even if amortized over forever, would
be enormous.
Whaddaya think?
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NEXT>9698
PREVIOUS>9679
POSTER>The Bronx Bomb
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:40 1998
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Posted by The Bronx Bomb on February 10, 1998 at 21:34:37:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Adam on February
10, 1998 at 20:32:44:
Interesting... But, if you read the last part of the article, the
airline industry is considering a lawsuit to "torpedo the project."
THIS BITES! Why can't people understand that this is needed...
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NEXT>9696
PREVIOUS>9608
POSTER>Daniel
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:43 1998
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Posted by Daniel on February 10, 1998 at 21:42:08:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 09, 1998 at 15:54:00:
The numbers on the IRT are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 9... The #8 train was the
old 3rd Avenue el in the Bronx that ran from Gun Hill to The Hub.. As
for any trains with numbers higher, way back when (yes... even before
SUBTALK), the train lines went as high as 16 (I believe)...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9666
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: train/subway car inspections & safety
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:44 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 10, 1998 at 21:44:54:
In Reply to: [8]train/subway car inspections & safety posted by
Liliana Rossi on February 10, 1998 at 10:28:43:
The NYCT uses several different maintenance timelines. The most common
is the SMI or Scheduled Maintenance Inspections. Cars are inspected
every 10,000 miles or 66 days (whichever comes first).The Inspections
are done on a 4 cycle rotation, Type I through Type IV. Every system
is checked on every cycle, however, a few items are given a 'heavy'
inspection on a particular cycle. For example, the propulsion is given
a heavy inspection on type I inspections while the doors are heavy on
type III. This spreads the manpower and material resources over the
roughly 6 months of a complete cycle.
The second and more extensive programmed maintenance is called SMS or
Scheduled Mtce. System. Major components are replaced on a two, four,
six and twelve year cycle. For example, the trucks are replaced every
6 years and a mini overhaul is done every 12. The twelve year O/H
includes everything done in the 2, 4 and 6 year cycles as well.
In this way, by doing the bulk of the maintenance in planned steps,
the material and manpower needs can be forecasted with a good deal of
accurracy. In this way too, by pre-determining the life-cycle of major
components, they can be replaced before they fail - leading to greater
dependability, whichthe NYCT now enjoys.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Handbrakes
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:46 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 10, 1998 at 21:58:45:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R1-R9's posted by Mike B on February 10, 1998 at
20:22:49:
Handbrake useage is defined in TA rule #57. In general, a handbrake is
applied in yards and shops to secure a car or train. It's also used on
lay-up tracks. A handbrake or handbrakes must be applied to a train
during a power outage or during other emergency situations. They are
also applied when coupling and uncoupling. They are never applied in a
terminal except under the conditions above.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9669
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Underutilized Station Redux
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:50 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 10, 1998 at 23:56:05:
In Reply to: [8]Underutilized Station Redux posted by Sammy on
February 10, 1998 at 04:08:38:
while i honestly recalled my experience of York St. I DID NOT suggest
any reduction in service. I am in favor of more and better service
EVERYWHERE and at ALL times. build the 2nd ave subway today!
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NEXT>9691
PREVIOUS>9684
POSTER>david vartanoff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:53 1998
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Posted by david vartanoff on February 11, 1998 at 00:14:37:
In Reply to: [8]Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 10, 1998 at 20:52:38:
even if this made sense economically this is either heresy or
apostasy. besides the density numbers are only operative in the
current fraudulent accounting schemes. As is well known, the explicit
costs of traffic policing, the negative effect of squandering land for
expressways which could be otherwise utilized at higher real estate
tax rates etc are bot reflected in the "fares" paid by motorists. Look
at the ways monies are allocated. The JFK light rail will cost more
and do less than simply rebuilding the old LIRR tracks and ectending
them into the air port--see Penny Bridge ststion.
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NEXT>9697
PREVIOUS>9690
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:55 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 02:49:02:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by david vartanoff on
February 11, 1998 at 00:14:37:
It's not the type of loading that could be hand;ed by buses. We're
talking about 4 SRO R44-type cars. On the 7:35 Express to St. George
from Great Kills. Train runs (at GK) 2 minutes ahead of the local
behind it, and 7 minutes behind the train in front.
This train makes only 3 stops, GK, Bay Terrace, and Oakwood, then
express to ferry (on the same track! there are only 2, and they are
not yet reverse signaled) The train ahead starts at Hugenot, stops at
Annadale, Eltingville, skips to New DOrp, Grant City, Jefferson Ave,
Dongan Hills, and Old Town, and then skips all stations after to St.
George, arriving 3 minutes ahead of the 3stop express.
What's the full load capacity of an R44?
Also, accounting method used on SIR makes its subsidy and fares equal
exactly operating expenses, so the line will always look like it is
breaking even. The line is really an extension of the ferry. Try
moving 2000 people in buses, along the same route.
-Hank
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NEXT>9693
PREVIOUS>9651
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:57 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 02:54:16:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Mark Goldey on February 09, 1998 at 17:17:34:
The current bridge is over navigable waters. Both channels are open to
marine traffic, the bride to Queens is a lift span. However, I believe
the minimum height over mean high water is different for each channel
of the river.
-Hank
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NEXT>9699
PREVIOUS>9692
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:40:59 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 02:56:17:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Peter Rosa on February 09, 1998 at 21:27:31:
Well, I guess Big Don can't figure out how to use the webBBS...
-Hank :)
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NEXT>9703
PREVIOUS>9668
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:01 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 11, 1998 at 08:20:09:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Simon B on February 10,
1998 at 17:35:59:
I visited London in 1978 and rode the Underground quite a bit - mostly
the Piccadilly and District Lines. Unfortunately, I didn't get a
chance to ride the Metropolitan Line, specifically, the segment
between Baker St. and Paddington, which dates back to 1863. I
understand that much of the original tunnel masonry is still there.
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NEXT>9708
PREVIOUS>9681
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:03 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 11, 1998 at 08:49:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Fred Zaron on
February 10, 1998 at 20:37:21:
At symposium, TA President Reuter said the system worked and would be
installed. The plan is to replace the entire signals system, but do it
over 30 years to minimize disruption and spread the cost. The Canarsie
Line is going first. I do not know when the project will begin.
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NEXT>9729
PREVIOUS>9686
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:05 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 11, 1998 at 09:19:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Daniel on
February 10, 1998 at 21:42:08:
The BMT used number markers all the way up to 17. The IRT never went
beyond #9. At one time, I believe 9 was used for the Dyre Ave. Line
before it was tied into the rest of the system.
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NEXT>9700
PREVIOUS>9691
POSTER>Andrew Byler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:07 1998
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Posted by Andrew Byler on February 11, 1998 at 09:34:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Hank Eisenstein on
February 11, 1998 at 02:49:02:
What I think needs to be recognized is that the SIRT is really more of
a
commuter rail operation than a subway line, and so it should not be
expected to carry the number of people that a normal subway line
would. I think perhaps the best analogy to it around is the
Philadelphia and Western (aka Norristown High Speed Line) outisde
Philadelphia. This line would definitely carry many more people if it
continued to downtown without a transfer at 69th St., and without tons
of stops along the way.
Were it ever tied in to the main subway network (say a connection gets
built from St. George's to 4th Ave. and 60th St. in Brooklyn), then we
could begin treating it like a subway and wondering about its
ridership being too low. However, my suspicion is that the ridership
numbers would improve greatly. There are lots of cars going over the
Verazano.
On the other hand, perhaps an idea to kick around for the future, in
reference to the RPA's Regional Plan, is tying this line in with the
Broadway express tracks and the Port Washington branch of the LIRR, or
else, perhpas extending it up a future 2nd Ave. subway and on into
Westchester County up the NYW&B. Kind of a hybrid subway/commuter rail
line would be the result, perhaps akin to the PATCO line in
Philadelphia and New Jersey.
Andy
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NEXT>9701
PREVIOUS>9685
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:09 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at 09:40:43:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 10, 1998 at 16:14:35:
Like the fact that you can't go in and out of the same station at BART
without paying some incredibly high fee. This is to prevent people
from just riding the line for pleasure.
In DC, if you are on the system for more than 4 hours, you pretty much
can't get out without a Metro escort, because your farecard won't let
you out. This is also to prevent people from enjoying themselves too
much.
The $5 fee to/from JFK airport mentioned in above postings will
prevent people from using it for anything other than airport rides. It
seems a bit high to me, especially considering that many will have
ridden an A train for 15 miles at 25 miles/hour for $1.50, then pay $5
to go the last 3 miles, which they can do on the bus now for free. If
and when they build it to Jamaica, it might seem worth it to people.
Maybe it should be $3 from Howard Beach, $5 from Jamaica. And
considering what it costs to take a taxi, I guess $5 (+$1.50 for the
subway) is a bargain.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9693
POSTER>Mark Goldey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:11 1998
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Posted by Mark Goldey on February 11, 1998 at 09:45:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 02:54:16:
You're right. I didn't want to get into all sorts of detail, but just
to point out that a small bridge to an underutilized part of Queens
was much easier and more reasonable than something that could
reasonably span the other channel of the East River and connect to
Manhattan.
So it goes. Thanks for pointing out my error.
--mhg
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NEXT>9709
PREVIOUS>9697
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn x-Staten Islander
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:13 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn x-Staten Islander on February 11, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Andrew Byler on
February 11, 1998 at 09:34:51:
I have to agree SIRT is a commuter railroad. As Hank said, they do a
fantastic job on the morning rush, ever read the schedule?
Most of the trains I rode to work 2 years ago were at cruch capacity
by the time they got to Grasmere, even the three stopper. I also rode
when the
head and end cars had only two doors open before they lenghtened the
platforms.
1/2 hour headways non rush hours is what the load supports, there is
even a period late night when there isn't a train for an hour and a
half but that is better than LIRR out of Flatbush Ave. I don't see a
BUSWAY moving that amount of people IN THAT short amount of time. And
the PM rush the express leves 5 minutes before the local, I don't
think you can space enough buses in that time period (the express is
FULL 4 car R44's) of just 5 minutes.
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NEXT>9715
PREVIOUS>9698
POSTER>John Stewart
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:15 1998
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Posted by John Stewart on February 11, 1998 at 11:05:22:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 11, 1998 at 09:40:43:
Carl, I can't believe that the DC Metro farecard prohibits the user
from leaving if he's been in the system more than four hours!!!! In an
earlier post, you mentioned the "anti-convenience patrol". The DC
Metro rule must be administered by the "the anti-fun league"!!!
What criteria could possibly be at work in developing this rule? Is it
directed against the homeless?
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NEXT>9718
PREVIOUS>9673
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:17 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 11, 1998 at 11:12:48:
In Reply to: [7]NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website posted by Joe on
February 10, 1998 at 16:51:57:
I had no trouble printing it with or without the adobe reader,
although adobe gives you more flexibility. You will need to paste
several sheets together to make a good sized map, but they look great!
Save the files to a disk, and print them with another utility if
printing directly isn't working on netscape.
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NEXT>9711
PREVIOUS>9694
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:20 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 11, 1998 at 11:37:51:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Simon B on February 10,
1998 at 17:35:59:
You're quite welcome Simon,
I forgot to mention that there is a good picture of R-36, #9654, in
it's original paint scheme at the nycsubway.org page. My guess is
you've probably noticed it, but just in case you didn't.
In terms of cleanliness (and other areas) the subway has made great
progress, but there still some ways to go. It would be easier if more
straphangers would use the trash receptacles in stations.
Unfortunately, criminal incidents do occur on the subways (as well as
anywhere), but my opinion is that this and other problems and/or
shortcomings of the NYC Transit system of blown far out of proportion.
Many cheers to the NYCT employees.
I hope your trip to New York is a good one, and I'm glad I could help.
Wayne
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NEXT>9706
PREVIOUS>9678
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:23 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 11, 1998 at 11:44:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 10, 1998 at 20:29:07:
Nothing new here; remember the line spoken in Dr. Strangelove by the
Russian Ambassador, "Our source was the New York Times". It got a
laugh 30 years ago, and still does today.
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NEXT>9721
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Edward
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Reverse-signals
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:26 1998
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Posted by Edward on February 11, 1998 at 12:06:51:
I read postings related to reverse-signaling on the Staten Island
Railroad.
What is reverse-signaling?
If anyone knows;please explain in detail. Thank You.
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NEXT>9713
PREVIOUS>9704
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:29 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 11, 1998 at 12:19:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Gary
Jacobi on February 11, 1998 at 11:44:59:
Hey - I remember reading after the Williamsburg bridge accident, in
the NYT, that "The controller was found in the highest of 3 speeds,
but this doesn't mean the train was going top speed, since the
operator may have _shifted into a lower gear for the steep climb up to
the bridge" Since when did subways have gearshifts???
Also, why does the NYT insist that subway cars have been getting
heavier over the years?? I don't think they have, yet everytime
there's a fender bender on the system, it's because "subways have been
getting heavier over the years and can't stop as quick as they used
to". Then, of cousrse, it goes on about how we need some super
expensive, computerized, signal system, and how we should drop the
speed limits on the system until such a system is installed.
Is it me, or does the NYT have some political agenda here???
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NEXT>9739
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card restrictions
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:32 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at 12:42:06:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by John Stewart on
February 11, 1998 at 11:05:22:
I think it is to prevent homeless-type people from "living in the
subway."
Actually though, even a train-lover like me would be hard-pressed to
stay on the system more than just for a normal ride. Comfortable,
quiet, clean, convenient, fast, safe, carpeted, reliable, etc. BUT...
every train and every station looks alike, everything is a two-track
line, and there are no labyrinthine tunnels to use to go from one line
to the other, just a convenient escalator up or down.
Logically I know all of this is great -- it makes it simple,
predictable, pleasant for everyone -- but for us SubTalk types it
doesn't have the quirkiness of older merged-together systems. Even
Baltimore's light rail and Metro look like they are from different
planets, and their system is much smaller and more lightly used. In
NYC you never know what the next train is going to look like. And in
Boston, they have 4 completely incompatible lines. Oh, well, you can't
please everyone...
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NEXT>9714
PREVIOUS>9695
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:33 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 11, 1998 at 12:57:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Larry Littlefield
on February 11, 1998 at 08:49:41:
I wonder if this is anything like the signaling system which was
supposed to be used on the 2nd Ave. Line. According to Brian Cudahy in
Under the Sidewalks of New York, coded electronic impulses were to be
sent along the third rail containing various bits of information which
trains would decipher. The R-44s and R-46s, when delivered, were
equipped to receive and decode these impulses. I don't know if they
retained this capability after being rebuilt.
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NEXT>9725
PREVIOUS>9700
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:35 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 11, 1998 at 13:25:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Lou from Brooklyn
x-Staten Islander on February 11, 1998 at 10:09:55:
I'm not an engineer (and it sounds as if some of you are) but I'm not
sure a busway is a bust. I happen to have a SIRT schedule (Sept. 96),
and it has nine trains arriving at St George (from all locations)
between 7:04 and 8:05. That's a five minute headway, four cars every
five minutes. Riding the F, also an R44-R46, there appears to be 72
seats -- 150 people is a pretty full load on a car. That's 600 people
every five minutes.
How much does an articulated bus hold? I'd have to say 100, including
standees. That's six buses. Now six buses means six drivers, which is
more than one conductor and one motorman. But some of the buses could
go on to Manhattan via the bridge, and the buses to St George could
arrive more frequently. If -- and that's a big if -- there were enough
room for additional lanes in the vicinity of stations for buses to
pull off to load, more buses from more places could be accomodated. Or
the two lanes could run inbound
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NEXT>9794
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Daily Metrocard
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:37 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 11, 1998 at 14:30:33:
To further an earlier post about the future Metrocards- will the daily
cards be a 24hr or a date only usage- and I suppose the same question
for the weekly cards Sun to Sun- or 7 days from time of sale?? These
questions beg answering !!
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NEXT>9773
PREVIOUS>9703
POSTER>Simon B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:38 1998
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Posted by Simon B on February 11, 1998 at 15:33:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Steve B on February 11,
1998 at 08:20:09:
Much of the underground is still original particularly the cut and
cover sections of the District and Metropolitan.
A worthy vist is Baker Street Metropoltan and Circle line platforms
which have been retored to former glory. Perhaps some vintage rolling
stock would enhance the scene.
Most tubes are still original.
Thanks for your notes
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NEXT>9754
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Aaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>In Search of Old Subway Maps
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:40 1998
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Posted by Aaron on February 11, 1998 at 16:00:49:
Anyone know of a store/s in the NYC area that carries old NYC
transit/subway maps for sale?
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NEXT>9730
PREVIOUS>9706
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:42 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 11, 1998 at 16:04:31:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Philip
Nasadowski on February 11, 1998 at 12:19:21:
Subway trains do not have gearshifts per se. An electric motor can
provide propulsion from a dead stop without having to be geared down,
unlike an internal combustion engine. Subway controllers in New York
do have three notches, or positions: switching, which is similar to
low gear and is used for low speed running such as when changing
tracks; series, which is similar to second gear, and multiple, which
is the normal position when running at speed. There is no provision
for shifting into a lower gear "for the steep climb up the bridge".
Ordinarily, the operator will keep the controller in multiple while
ascending the bridge, then cut power once the train is near the high
point; i. e., the center of the main span. The air handle is then
worked as the train descends downgrade.
As for weight, subway cars today are somewhat lighter when compared to
the BMT standard or Triplex. A BMT standard weighed in at 95,000 to
99,000 pounds; Triplex units, which were the heaviest cars ever built
for service in New York, tipped the scales at 213,000-215,000 pounds.
It could be that the addition of air conditioning to older units
increased their gross weight. The R-32s, for example, weighed 35 tons
each when new. They received air conditioning when they were rebuilt;
while I don't know how much weight this added, I do know that more
powerful traction motors were installed (119 h.p. vs the original 100
h.p. motors) to compensate for that fact.
As for speed, I understand that cars today have a chip which limits
top speed to 50 mph. The only time I have seen a train actually hit 50
mph was on a 4 train proceeding downgrade through the Joralemon St.
tunnel, although I've ridden A trains of R-10s uptown along Central
Park West and the stretch between Howard Beach and Broad Channel which
seemed to go faster than that. Supposedly, there are many stretches on
which train speeds are limited to 35 mph.
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NEXT>9716
PREVIOUS>9708
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:44 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 11, 1998 at 16:08:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Steve B on February
11, 1998 at 12:57:20:
I have a few questions about this automation. First, will this allow
trains to drive themselves without a train operator? I don't think
that I would not feel safe aboard such a train without any human
operators. Also, why is the L line being chosen for the test system?
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NEXT>9743
PREVIOUS>9701
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:47 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 11, 1998 at 16:17:02:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 11, 1998 at 09:40:43:
Although the MTA won't be operating the new light rail system (I think
the Port Authority will be), it would be nice to see a package deal
that would allow passengers to pay for a subway ride and light rail
ride all in one with a discount, perhaps both for $5. These could be
made available at all A train stations. Maybe this type of
collaboration could lead to some kind of conmnection between EZ pass
and MetroCard.
One thing that I'm wondering is if the light rail station and the JFK
subway station on the A line will be physically connected, making it
easier for passengers who are probably carrying luggage to make the
connection.
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NEXT>9717
PREVIOUS>9714
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:50 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 11, 1998 at 16:32:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Adam on February
11, 1998 at 16:08:03:
I'd guess that the L line has been selected for the test because it's
largely isolated from the rest of the system. Except for the 7 and the
shuttles, each line shares at least some trackage with one or more
others. Being in splendid isolation, the L is a wise choice for trying
out new signals.
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NEXT>9759
PREVIOUS>9716
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:55 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at 17:02:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Adam on February
11, 1998 at 16:08:03:
Plus, if it's anything like Washington or Philadelphia's Patco Line to
NJ, it will have an operator to open and close the doors, and to
supervise that everything is going okay. But after my 20 years of
experience on the two systems, they seem to work okay to me.
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NEXT>9722
PREVIOUS>9702
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 14 17:41:59 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at 17:04:33:
In Reply to: [7]NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website posted by Joe on
February 10, 1998 at 16:51:57:
The one on the MTA site does NOT show the new S shuttle running
24/day, just the overnight one because of the G being unavailable and
the F being transferred back to Queens Blvd overnight.
Perhaps the new paper maps are out. If they are do they include the
B/C switch?
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NEXT>9720
PREVIOUS>10137
POSTER>Daniel Wildgen
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:05 1998
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Posted by Daniel Wildgen on February 11, 1998 at 17:26:06:
On Friday the thirteenth (an auspicious day) my wife and I are coming
into NYC by way of the Laguardia airport and are lookin for an
inexpensive (i.e. less expensive than taxi) way to get to the World
Trade Center.
I've noticed there is no service to the airport. What bus could we
take. We are coming in at 9:00 am.
Any advice or information would be helpful.
Thanks for your time.
Daniel
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NEXT>9726
PREVIOUS>9719
POSTER>Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:07 1998
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Posted by Gary Jacobi on February 11, 1998 at 17:47:46:
In Reply to: [7]Getting around NYC posted by Daniel Wildgen on
February 11, 1998 at 17:26:06:
There are 3 busses that run through the LaGuardia Arrival Ramp. They
are the m60,Q33 and Q48. The M60 goes into Harlem, so I would avoid
it. The Q33 appears to go to the Roosevelt Avenue Subway station, at
which you can catch an E train to the WTC.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9705
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Reverse-signals
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:09 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 11, 1998 at 19:17:36:
In Reply to: [8]Reverse-signals posted by Edward on February 11, 1998
at 12:06:51:
Most tracks are used "one-way". If a track is reversed signalled it
can be used by trains going in either direction. In NYC Most lines
with a center track (2rd track) have such signals on that track which
is sued for one way rush hour service.(To Manhattan AM, From Manhattan
PM)
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NEXT>9803
PREVIOUS>9718
POSTER>Allan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:11 1998
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Posted by Allan on February 11, 1998 at 19:36:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website posted by
Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at 17:04:33:
"The Map" as issued in January does not show the B/C switch
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9654
POSTER>Bobw
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker Lights on Septa's BSS
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:12 1998
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Posted by Bobw on February 11, 1998 at 20:01:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker Lights on Septa's BSS posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 10, 1998 at 14:58:47:
Yes, you are correct. For the longest time, maps and schedules for the
line have advised riders to watch the marker lights to determine the
destination of the train. Even those non-railfan riders on the line
know what "marker lights" are thanks to this.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9677
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: to John B. Brendin
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:14 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 11, 1998 at 20:08:47:
In Reply to: [7]Re: to John B. Brendin posted by Peter Rosa on
February 10, 1998 at 20:27:52:
Last time I was in Chicago bought the card for $3.00 Put a $5.00 in
the machine and got the card (What I needed Round trip fare) And got
back 2 Susan B Anthony $$'s At least someone is using the suzies.
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NEXT>9738
PREVIOUS>9709
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:16 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 11, 1998 at 20:28:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 11, 1998 at 13:25:59:
I think the SIRT can become a SUBWAY-type line...if it were connected
to another borough... Somebody mentioned that, in the future, a tunnel
could be built to connect the either the Broadway express or (only in
my WILDEST dreams) a 2nd Avenue line... Well, due to the location of
the St. George station, can a tunnel be built after this station into
Lower Manhattan (thus giving SI people an alternative to the
Ferry...especially on days where there is bad weather and the Ferry
can't run)... I'm not too sure... If there any engineers out there who
are from SI, and know of the St. George station, could you comment on
this...
In the event that a tunnel could not be built from St. George, the
only other alternative would be the Tunnel to Brooklyn under the
Narrows... it could hook up either to 95 St. or 59 St. stations... And
this is badly needed... I have traveled through Staten Island many
times (being a resident of Bayonne, NJ) and traveling over the
Verrazano is a PAIN!!! And going back to Bayonne from Brooklyn, I hate
paying the $7 (oops, I have EZ pass... I only pay $6; WHAT A
SAVINGS!)... If a train line existed, I would easily take that onto SI
instead of driving... But hey: this is only a dream... The SIRT will
continue to be under-utilized until (say that 3 times fast) it is
connected to the NYC subway...
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NEXT>9732
PREVIOUS>9720
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:18 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 11, 1998 at 20:39:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 11, 1998 at 17:47:46:
Yes, I do this twice or more per month:
The Q-33 runs every 15 minutes on weekdays. Go to the last stop,
the Roosevelt Ave. subway station, and go DOWNSTAIRS and take the
E train to the last stop, World Trade Center. Resist the urge
to get off the bus and head for the elevated overhead; it's a nice
ride (the #7), but won't take you directly to WTC.
Also, find a vendor at the airport that sells Metrocards. That way,
you can take advantage of the free transfer. You only need one
card for the two of you, just "dip" twice in the bus fare box,
and two free transfers will be loaded. When you enter the subway,
swipe ONCE to let both of you pass through the turnstyle.
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NEXT>9733
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Scruffy-looking Nerf-herder
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:20 1998
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Posted by Scruffy-looking Nerf-herder on February 11, 1998 at
What ever happened to the SIRT tracks that ran after the Clifton
station toward South Beach and Wentworth Ave.? Couldn't the city use
some of these tracks between Grasmere and Clifton to make a connection
to Brooklyn? That way, the SIRT can be hooked up to a Subway line (the
R) and people in Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan don't have to
rely on the Ferry... If by some chance they are there (and only
covered over when the Verrazano went up), wouldn't this be a good
thing for the Island... It's a part of NYC... the MTA should treat it
as such!
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NEXT>9736
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Michael Adler
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Current platform length on SIR? (Re: Under-Utilized SIRT)
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:23 1998
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Posted by Michael Adler on February 11, 1998 at 20:54:02:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Lou from Brooklyn
x-Staten Islander on February 11, 1998 at 10:09:55:
Hi all,
I remembered back in the 80's, there were 3 car length platforms, what
about now? can you list each station's platform length if they are
different in length?
Thanks,
Michael Adler
Lakewood, ColorFUL Colorado
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NEXT>9777
PREVIOUS>9696
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:25 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 11, 1998 at 20:59:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Steve B on
February 11, 1998 at 09:19:31:
The high IRT numbers on new rollsigns was discussed on a thread not
too long ago. I've never seen the numbers myself, but from what I've
heard the numbers are (the routes will tell the colors:
8 Pelham Exp.
10 thru exp.
11 Flushing exp.
12 Woodlawn-Flatbush
13 148-Flatbush
I forgot the other numbers.
17 was the unnofficial number for the 14th St-Fulton exp. It never
appeared on signs.
I saw from a recent ERA slideshow that * was originally for IRT
Astoria service. It wasn't used on the 3rd Av el until the first
Chrystie st map. (It didn't even appear in the map issued a few months
before that, which first showed IRT numbers.
BTW, these new split route signs remind me of similar ones that
appeared on the unrebuilt R-46's for F/Q service to 21st St. right
before the digital signs replaced them.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9713
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:27 1998
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Posted by Nick on February 11, 1998 at 21:03:15:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Subway line closing for Grammy's posted by Gary
Jacobi on February 10, 1998 at 11:53:59:
hehehe ya never know what Rudy will do next, but hopefully that's not
the case!-Nick
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Nick
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>When In '99 will the R-142's be delivered?
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:29 1998
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Posted by Nick on February 11, 1998 at 21:04:57:
I was wondering if any specific date(s) in 1999 have been set for
R-142 deliveries. Does anyone have some info?-Nick
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NEXT>9735
PREVIOUS>9726
POSTER>michael b.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:31 1998
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Posted by michael b. on February 11, 1998 at 23:30:11:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 11, 1998 at 17:47:46:
The M60 desn't really go through Harlem. It goes over the Tri-borough
and over to Morningside Heights (right in front of Columbia Univ.). It
is definatly the fastest route from LaGuardia to the upper west side
(only 25 minutes). But I would agree that the Q33 to the E is the
fastest route to WTC.
-Michael B.
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NEXT>9747
PREVIOUS>9727
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal
DATE>Feb 14 17:42:34 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 23:47:48:
In Reply to: [8]SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal posted by
Scruffy-looking Nerf-herder on February 11, 1998 at 20:41:50:
two things: 1, most of the ROW has been sold and used for other
purposes, like homes. The line was abandoned in 1953.
Second, to much NImBY on SI....
-Hank
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NEXT>9742
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SBA Dollars
DATE>Feb 19 21:16:58 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 12, 1998 at 00:09:26:
In Reply to: [8]Re: to John B. Brendin posted by Joe M on February 11,
1998 at 20:08:47:
MAny transit agencies use SBA dollars now. PATH has turnstyles that
accept them, NJT, LIRR, SEPTA, PATH and MNCR ticket Machines give them
as change. Congress just authorized the US Mint to create a NEW dollar
coin, it will be gold in color, but I don't believe there will be a
PERSON on it. This is because they've only got $18 million SBA's left
about a 5 month supply, If I recall...
-Hank
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NEXT>9740
PREVIOUS>9732
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:02 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:28:46:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
February 11, 1998 at 20:39:49:
Forget the E - it's boring as hell. Take the #7. You get MUCH more for
your buck. The Redbirds, real strap hanging, and a way cool elevated
line that crosses the Slamtrak/LIRR ROW TWICE!! Plus the Phun Phactory
(plug, plug), and that cool concrete viaduct. Plus, you can get the E
at Times Square.
Try to watch out the front car if you can.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9728
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Current platform length on SIR? (Re: Under-Utilized SIRT)
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:05 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 12, 1998 at 00:29:04:
In Reply to: [8]Current platform length on SIR? (Re: Under-Utilized
SIRT) posted by Michael Adler on February 11, 1998 at 20:54:02:
St. George 3-6 cars, depending on Track. Tompkinsville-3 cars (rear
car does not open) Stapleton, Clifton, Grasmere, Old Town, Dongan
Hills, Jefferson Ave, Grant City, New Dorp, Oakwood, Bay Terrace,
Great Kills, Eltingville, Annadale, Hugenot, Prince's Bay, Pleasant
Plains-5 car Richmond Valley, Nassau- 3-car, only one door on rear car
is manually operated by the conductor Atlantic, one car, one door on
the rear car is opened by the conductor. Tottenville is 5-car.
The Platforms were extended in the Late 80's early 90's for 5-car rush
hour operation. This has yet to happen. Occasionally, late nite and
weekend trains run 2 cars. all other trains are 4-car.
-Hank
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NEXT>9748
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:08 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
Hey - I don't know if it's been asked yet, but what's everyone's
favorite subway line, and why?? My vote is for the number 7. Cool ROW,
cooler twisty turny line, even cooler equipment..
Oh yeah, does anyone know if/when the LIRR is FINNALY going to get
those new diesels they've been promising for the last few years
(decades?)?
Also, why the ^%$^%$# did they go with a GM locomotive when GE's
Genesisisis(??) IIs seem to fit the job - and were already being made
for Metro North??
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9725
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:14 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 12, 1998 at 00:39:20:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Daniel A. Valles on
February 11, 1998 at 20:28:47:
Given the current configuration of St George, I don't think a tunnel
could be started without major reworking of the entire terminal. As
for an 'alternative' to the ferry, the tunnel would fail. If it is
built, and it never will be, unless we get Star Trek technology, the
ferry would become useless.
As for 'weather in which the ferry can't run', it doesn't exist. Thata
boat can cross the harbor through at least 3 inches of ice, and the
buildup would never get that high in the harbor. Occasionally, a storm
surge can push the water leel so hjigh that the boat cannot dock, but
the last time I recall this happening is 1992.
As for your complaint about our toll: Island residents with EZPass pay
$3.20. And your trip is part of the reason for the high toll. More
thru traffic than origin or destination traffic. I'd love to see
congestion pricing...they'd improve x-bus service so fast, my head
will spin.
-Hank
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NEXT>9761
PREVIOUS>9707
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card restrictions
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:18 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 12, 1998 at 01:19:32:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card
restrictions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at
12:42:06:
The explantion I heard for the four hour restriction on the DC Metro
is not the "anti-fun league", but that the 1970's vintage computer
system that controls the faregates has only enough memory for 4 hours
and then dumps the memory, clearing it for the next 4 hours. There is
supposed to be a scheme using this quirk to cheat the system, using
two farecards, one for entrance and one for exit. This may be transit
folklore, if anyone knows the full (real) story, post it.
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NEXT>9741
PREVIOUS>9735
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:22 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 12, 1998 at 01:19:41:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
February 11, 1998 at 20:39:49:
>Also, find a vendor at the airport that sells Metrocards.
Actually, I was interested in whether they actually sell Metrocards at
the airport and I called 1-800-METROCARD and I was informed that there
are no locations at the airport selling MetroCards. So you should get
one at the subway station so you can use the free transfer on your way
home.
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NEXT>9749
PREVIOUS>9740
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:25 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 12, 1998 at 01:21:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by michael b. on
February 11, 1998 at 23:30:11:
You can take the m60 to St. Nicolas Avenue at 125th Street and
transfer for the #2 down to the World Trade Center. But with all the
construction on that line and with certain trains not running all the
time, I wouldn't recommend it.
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NEXT>9751
PREVIOUS>9734
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:28 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 12, 1998 at 02:01:50:
In Reply to: [8]SBA Dollars posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 12,
1998 at 00:09:26:
I think the new dollar coins will be the same size as the SBA's and
should work in the same machines. Certainly that would make sense, and
while it sometimes seems like sense is in short supply in Washington,
I think the people at the mint (if not in Congress) have enough to do
this right. The coins will be gold colored so they won't be mistaken
for quarters, which is the main reason (not resentment against
feminism) that the SBA coins got such a poor reception. It's hard to
believe there won't be someone's face on it, perhaps they haven't
decided who yet. Or perhaps not a real person but "Liberty" like on
the old silver dollars.
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NEXT>9744
PREVIOUS>9715
POSTER>Droo
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:32 1998
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Posted by Droo on February 12, 1998 at 02:15:10:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by The Bronx Bomb on
February 10, 1998 at 21:34:37:
I think the concern is that funds reserved for airport improvements
are being used for this project. From what I understand, it is the
airlines themselves that are questioning the need of this line... from
their point of view, I suppose it doesn't really matter to them: if
people need to fly, they'll find a way to get to the airport. Not that
I agree......
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NEXT>9786
PREVIOUS>9743
POSTER>Droo
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:35 1998
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Posted by Droo on February 12, 1998 at 02:23:58:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Adam on February
11, 1998 at 16:17:02:
Hmmm... the MTA and the Port Authority already have a collaboration
for the EZPass system (the MTA Bridges & Tunnels with the P.A. bridge
and tunnels)... I still don't understand all this talk of an
EZPass/Metrocard combo. Having swipe passes in the tollbooths will be
the time-wise equivalent of using tokens, and having transmitters to
get on the subway doesn't sound like such a great idea, either.
Besides, EZPass and Metrocard are two different animals... the EZPass
is designed for vehicular tolls, Metrocard for pedestrian tolls. I
don't think it would work.
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NEXT>9774
PREVIOUS>9628
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 63rd St. Connection Construction
DATE>Feb 19 21:17:55 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 12, 1998 at 07:17:02:
In Reply to: [8]63rd St. Connection Construction posted by Todd
Glickman on February 10, 1998 at 09:28:35:
Todd--
The question is: will that thurn track ever return? Because without
them, the G's terminus at Court Street will remain permanent.
Michael
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NEXT>9753
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Julio Perez
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>...And Another Question on the R-142s
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:07 1998
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Posted by Julio Perez on February 12, 1998 at 07:21:15:
In Reply to: [8]When In '99 will the R-142's be delivered? posted by
Nick on February 11, 1998 at 21:04:57:
In addition to the ETA of the R-142s, I would like to know to which
A-Division lines will they be assigned.
Rumor has it that the 7 will get the R-62s from the other lines, which
in turn will receive the '142s. Is there anyone in the know that can
enlighten us with the correct information?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9733
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:11 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 08:34:58:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 11, 1998 at 23:47:48:
At one time, there was serious consideration given for building a
tunnel under the Narrows and tying Staten Island into the subway
system. There are two places where such a tunnel might have been
built. One is just past Whitehall St. in the Montague St. tunnel; the
other spot is south of 59th St. on the 4th Ave. Line. It was no
coincidence that the SIRT cars which were purchased in the 1920s bore
a close resemblance to the BMT standard in terms of dimensions,
although they could not operate in multiple unit with the standards.
It's another one of those "what if" scenarios.
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NEXT>9750
PREVIOUS>9737
POSTER>George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:13 1998
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Posted by George on February 12, 1998 at 08:44:17:
In Reply to: [7]Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
The B line for all its turns, crossovers, tunnel els, bridges and
Coney Island. Now if they can bring back the R-32,38 & 40's and get
rid of those bloody R-46's.
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NEXT>9755
PREVIOUS>9741
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:17 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 12, 1998 at 08:57:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Adam on February 12,
1998 at 01:19:41:
[re no Metrocard vendors at LaGuardia airport]
Now that is just plain bad planning on someone's part. The airport is
a perfect place to sell Metrocards, especially since the TA promotes
the bus-subway connections. Hopefully someone will pick up the ball
and start selling them.
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NEXT>9752
PREVIOUS>9748
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:21 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 09:21:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by George on February 12, 1998 at 08:44:17:
Actually, the R-68s are currently assigned to the B line. It would be
nice if the first car had the small cab facing out.
I'd have to vote for the A line, especially the express jaunt up
Central Park West. Granted, it's not the same without the R-10s, which
were synonimous with this line, but the R-38s make up for that
somewhat. My license plates even say 8AVEXP; a lot of people have
asked me what that means, and while a few have figured out the 8th
Ave. Express part, no one has made the connection with the NYC subway.
I'll either ask them if they've heard of Duke Ellington's Take the A
Train, or I'll simply tell them it's a subway route in New York.
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NEXT>9762
PREVIOUS>9742
POSTER>Mark Greenwald
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:25 1998
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Posted by Mark Greenwald on February 12, 1998 at 09:22:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SBA Dollars posted by Dan Schwartz on February 12,
1998 at 02:01:50:
In Baltimore, the farecard machines only accept SBA dollars--not paper
dollar bills. If you have a $1 or a $5 bill, you have to go to one
machine to convert the paper money to SBA's, then the farecard machine
to get the farecard. This, however, changed when the Hopkins segment
opened, the new stations (Shot Tower & Johns Hopkins) have farecard
machines that accept both, yet, the older stations, (Charles Ctr. -
Owings Mills) still force you to make two steps. Most regular
commuters though, buy many SBA's at a time saving them the trouble
each time they ride the system, OR, they just use a lot of quarters.
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NEXT>9769
PREVIOUS>9750
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:27 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 12, 1998 at 09:45:06:
In Reply to: [7]Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
Yeh, i like the 7, too, But then again it is my Homeline, You Like the
twisty turny thing too? and Why didn't the LIRR order Genesises
Anyway?
Foti-
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NEXT>9809
PREVIOUS>9746
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: ...And Another Question on the R-142s
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:30 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 12, 1998 at 09:47:29:
In Reply to: [7]...And Another Question on the R-142s posted by Julio
Perez on February 12, 1998 at 07:21:15:
Methinks, the R62's will be on the 7 and the 142's be on the mainline
-foti
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NEXT>9795
PREVIOUS>9712
POSTER>sdc-foti
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: In Search of Old Subway Maps
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:32 1998
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Posted by sdc-foti on February 12, 1998 at 09:52:13:
In Reply to: [7]In Search of Old Subway Maps posted by Aaron on
February 11, 1998 at 16:00:49:
yeh, I'm the store, what do you want
I have all subway maps from 1988 to present
Foti
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NEXT>9765
PREVIOUS>9749
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:35 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 12, 1998 at 09:55:11:
In Reply to: [8]Getting around NYC posted by Daniel Wildgen on
February 11, 1998 at 17:26:06:
Another way is to take the Carey Airport bus to Manhattan. It cost
more (about $6 - $8) and it stops Near the Port Authority Bus Terminal
in Midtown and then you're only about 10 minutes from WTC by subway
(A,C,E). Also the M60 does indeed go through the heart of harlem along
125th Street, but it's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to
be.
Welcome to the Big Apple!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC This is Subtalk N TRAIN
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:39 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:14:30:
In Reply to: [8]Getting around NYC posted by Daniel Wildgen on
February 11, 1998 at 17:26:06:
Hey this is subtalk what about the M60 to the N train at Astoria Blvd
(Hoyt Ave)???
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NEXT>9767
PREVIOUS>10118
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:44 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 12, 1998 at 10:15:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT connection to Brooklyn proposal posted by
Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 08:34:58:
Around 1954 or 1955, after the SIRT closed the North Shore and South
Beach branches, NYCTA purchased 25 or 30 surplus SIRT cars for use on
the BMT. They were dismayed that they did not MU with the BMT
standards.
I know I've posted this before, but I'll do it again.
The SIRT cars run on the Culver line (Ditmas Ave - Chambers St.), and
later (after the Culver line was reduced to shuttle service to 9th
Ave.) on the West End Local (Bay Parkway to Chambers St, midday to
Coney Island). They lasted until the R27s arrived (early 1961).
While the SIRT cars bore some resemblence to the BMT standards, and
had the center double-door with the conductor's door controls, they
had vestibules at the ends (like the old IRT cars). They also had
'walkover' seats. As I recall, the ride was pretty poor compared to
the standards (noisier, more rattles, more bounces).
When modified for subway use, the headlight was removed, and steel
plate destination signs (supposedly from scrapped wooden el cars) were
added.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Reverse-signals Fav backwards Ride LIRR
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:46 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:17:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Reverse-signals posted by subway-buff on February
11, 1998 at 19:17:36:
My faviorte reversed signal ride was the Port Jeff Express disel from
Port Jeff to Greenlawn then Express to Jay on the wrong track or the
track trains normaly use to go away from the city. Over 20+ grade
crossings going the wrong way at speed... FUN!!
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NEXT>9760
PREVIOUS>9717
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:49 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:20:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Adam on February
11, 1998 at 16:08:03:
I have four words for you BART...
But then again when BART first started up didn't a train end up in the
Bay in a yard move by the computer and now all yard moves are done by
operators?? Don't know much about BART, been on it once in my
lifetime.
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NEXT>9768
PREVIOUS>9759
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:53 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 12, 1998 at 10:22:18:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Steve B on February
11, 1998 at 12:57:20:
There was automation in the New York Subways in the 1960s!
One of the trains of the 42nd St. Shuttle (Track #4) was automated.
It ran for several years until it was destroyed in a massive fire in
the Grand Central shuttle station.
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NEXT>9810
PREVIOUS>9739
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card restrictions
DATE>Feb 19 21:18:58 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:29:16:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card
restrictions posted by Dan Lawrence on February 12, 1998 at 01:19:32:
I did ride the DC Metro once and entered via an elevator not the
normal entrance with my farecard. The farecard did not have enough
money not even for the minum fare but the gate let me in (I believe it
is not supposed to do that at the normal gate but at handicap gates
like near the elevator it does). When I got to where I was going I
couldn't get out, I couldn't even ADDFARE, I had to contact an agent.
He said something to the effect (this was a few years ago) that this
is a way people can cheat on the system with two fare cards with
minium fare and using the elevator entrances. I don't remember the
details but if anyone knows anything about it please post.
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NEXT>9780
PREVIOUS>9751
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:05 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:32:15:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SBA Dollars posted by Mark Greenwald on February
12, 1998 at 09:22:12:
Both the LIRR and NJT ticket vending machines (TVM) return change with
Susan B's... I even used one on the NYCTA Bus, the fare box accepted
it but the bus driver called me back because he didn't recongize the
coin...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lou from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Under-Utilized SIRT (More bus/train argument)
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:08 1998
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on February 12, 1998 at 10:47:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Under-Utilized SIRT posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 11, 1998 at 13:25:59:
Yes nine trains in an hour but they are meeting 3 boats in that hour.
The train must arrive (or bus in your case) must arrive in the 15 to
20 minute window, unload and get everyone to the ferry. Most morning
ferry's have 2 trains meeting it, the second one arriveing 5 to 7
minutes before the ferry departure. I still don't think 4 buses
arriving in that time frame will meet the current Ferry schedule even
with reverse track (err busway) running or going over the bridge.
Express bus trip from Eltingville to Downtown Manhattan (first stop)
is just as long or even longer than the SIRT/Ferry trip for the 7-8am
time frame (and will get longer as the summer construction starts in
Brooklyn).
Don't get me wrong, you have a good idea. One of the huge cost of SIRT
is the power stations every mile and just to run a train every 1/2
hour (non rush hours)??
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NEXT>9775
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars -- Baltimore vs. Washington
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:12 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 12, 1998 at 10:54:09:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SBA Dollars posted by Mark Greenwald on February
12, 1998 at 09:22:12:
Personally, I like the idea of the two steps. In DC it is a one-step
machine, and if the the dollar bills aren't going in easily, that one
fare card machine is slowed down to everyone. And all the electronics
are in one large box, which takes up a lot of space.
In Baltimore, some electronics are in one small box, some in the
other. The bill takers in Baltimore are more reliable because instead
of having a motor to grab the bills, you push the bill in on a sliding
tray and it gets read. It takes about 2 seconds and BAM you get your
$1 or $5 in coins. You can even put in an SBA dollar and get 4
quarters. Then you just put in as many as you need for the day in the
farecard machine. I think of SBA dollars in Baltimore as like NYC
subway tokens.
In Washington, if you want change you may get a couple of dollars in
quarters in change. It's like a Las Vegas slot machine.
BTW, at one time, many decades ago (as Joe Franklin likes to say),
there were NYC token vending machines. You put in a quarter and a
nickel, turned the knob, and got 2 tokens from it. Being New York, I
think people didn't trust that they were going to get the right number
of tokens out of it, and it was not around very long. Or maybe people
used slugs in them a lot.
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NEXT>9770
PREVIOUS>9755
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:15 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 11:05:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 12, 1998 at 00:28:46:
Getting to the WTC from LaGuardia is pretty straightforward. At least
if you take the E from Roosevelt Ave., it will take you there directly
without having to change trains. As for getting around New York, I
generally advise people to stick to local trains, especially in
Manhattan, if they're not familiar with the subway. I've heard
testimonies of how people took a wrong train because "nobody told us
it was an express".
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting from NYC'S LGA to PA's WTC PDQ, via E or N
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:17 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 12, 1998 at 11:09:04:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Adam on February 12,
1998 at 01:21:49:
The #2 is at Lenox Avenue and 125 St. The A (and the D) is at St.
Nicholas Ave and 125 St, which they could take to Chambers St (or the
D to 59th and change).
I vote for taking the M60 to the Astoria Line (N) if it comes first
(then take the N to CORTLANDT ST.), or the Q33 to Roosevelt Avenue (E)
if that comes first. Note that the Q33 runs every 15 minutes and the
M60 runs every half hour. So, when going back to LGA, I vote for the
Q33 from Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Hts/74 St-Bway. They say that's what
airline personnel take. to LGA.
Are you confused enough?? :-)
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NEXT>9796
PREVIOUS>9757
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:20 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 11:17:05:
In Reply to: [8]SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Ed Sachs on
February 12, 1998 at 10:15:56:
In addition, the SIRT cars had harsh, angular lines and corners
compared to the BMT standards, which had rounded corners.
25 of the surplus SIRT cars were motorized units; five were motorless
trailers which never saw service on the BMT. And, yes, the motorized
units were fitted with metal plate route and destination signs which
were salvaged from el cars.
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NEXT>9772
PREVIOUS>9760
POSTER>Fred
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:22 1998
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Posted by Fred on February 12, 1998 at 11:49:12:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 11, 1998 at 17:02:30:
A page I found describing current Automation plans can be found at
http://stdsbbs.ieee.org/groups/railtransit/cbtc.html. This site also
describes automation plans for PATH and a signal upgrade using
Communication Based Train Contol (CBTC) for LIRR.
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NEXT>9784
PREVIOUS>9752
POSTER>Ian
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:23 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Ian on February 12, 1998 at 11:52:44:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 09:21:01:
My favourite line for a roller coaster like ride is the 7 Av Express
(No. 2 or 3) between 14 St. and 96 St. especially on the older cars
(I'm from Toronto, Ontario, and not up on the model nos.) I especially
enjoy the run through Columbus Circle where the track follows an
s-curve and if you're standing on the train, you get quite a swing.
For "scenic beauty" I like the J from East New York across the
Williamsburg Bridge.
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NEXT>9779
PREVIOUS>9765
POSTER>Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:25 1998
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Posted by Ed Sachs on February 12, 1998 at 11:57:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Adam on February 12,
1998 at 01:19:41:
Goes to show you that New York is really behind the times in not
having direct rapid transit to the airport.
In Chicago or Cleveland, you could board a train directly at the
airport without a bus connection. In Boston, a shuttle bus connection
is required, but it's free, and the Airport station is really in the
Airport.
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NEXT>9836
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around from airports
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:27 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 12, 1998 at 12:10:28:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Ed Sachs on February
12, 1998 at 11:57:27:
Same with Washington's newly renamed Reagan National,
Baltimore-Washington International, and Philadelphia International
Airport (which has a commuter train in the basement). Also
Atlanta-Hartsfield.
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NEXT>9799
PREVIOUS>9768
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:28 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 12, 1998 at 12:34:59:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Ed Sachs on
February 12, 1998 at 10:22:18:
... I think this automated train was called SAM, but what did the
acronym SAM stand for?
--Mark
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NEXT>9776
PREVIOUS>9711
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:30 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 12:38:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Simon B on February 11,
1998 at 15:33:27:
By vintage, I take it you mean earlier electric Underground equipment.
Those early lines used steam locomotives when they opened - the smoke
in the tunnels had to be stifling! By the way, do they still put the
year of manufacture in the door guides of cars? I remember seeing
"1926" inscibed on the floor portion of the doorguides on some
District Line trains back in 1978.
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NEXT>9867
PREVIOUS>9745
POSTER>Peter Dougherty
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 63rd St. Connection Construction
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:33 1998
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Posted by Peter Dougherty on February 12, 1998 at 12:39:36:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 63rd St. Connection Construction posted by Mike
Klufas on February 12, 1998 at 07:17:02:
The question is: will that thurn track ever return? Because without
them, the G's terminus at Court Street will remain permanent.
There is a new alignment which will still allow trains from the
crosstown line to continue onto Queens Blvd. (necesssary for access to
Jamaica yard)
Revenue service will likely remain permanantly cut back to Court
Square, however. Relaying at Queens Plaza is now pretty much out of
the question, however. What was the Queens-bound express track (D4) is
now a dead-end layup track.
If it's not already there, I will have the eventual track alignment
through this area up on the track map web site
(www.nycsubway.org/maps) by this weekend. It's also in my track map
book as well.
Cheers,
Peter
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NEXT>9813
PREVIOUS>9764
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars -- Baltimore vs. Washington
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:35 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 12:49:44:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SBA Dollars -- Baltimore vs. Washington posted by
Carl M. Rabbin on February 12, 1998 at 10:54:09:
I remember seeing those token machines in New York. They were still in
use when the fare was 20 cents; I'm not sure if they were kept when
the fare went up to 30 cents. I do recall that the quarter-size token
made its debut with the 30-cent fare.
As for SBAs, there are, or were, something like 500 million of them
stored in government vaults. I heard you could buy them from the
government if you wanted to, although I don't remember for how much
(of course, it wasn't face value).
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NEXT>9801
PREVIOUS>9773
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:37 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 12, 1998 at 12:51:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Simon B on February 10,
1998 at 17:35:59:
The "world's fair" window type is exactly that of the 1983 District
stock, if I recall correctly. Instead of 2 areas that tilt in, there
are three.
As to interesting subway sights, here's what I'd consider:
- Stay in the #6 train after it stops at Brooklyn Bridge (heading
southbound) and take a look at the City Hall station when it appears
on the right side of the train just as it starts rounding a very sharp
curve. The 6 train uses this track to turn around and head back
uptown. The original City Hall station was the original terminus of
the IRT when it opened on 10/27/1904.
- B, D or F to Coney Island / Stillwell Ave. This is the businest
terminal station in the world, with 4 lines (B,D, F and N) terminating
here. There's a pedestrian bridge over the tracks allowing good views.
You could even take a short walk to the beach and boardwalk, and have
a hot dog at Nathan's. The F gives you the best view of the Coney
Island yard and overhaul shops.
- J to Broadway / Eastern Pkwy. The remnants of what was a huge
elevated junction still exist and there's a good view of the East New
York yard right nearby.
- 7 to Main St Flushing, and try to time this ride to grab an express
in one direction if you can.
- The A train to Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway, Queens. It runs
through the Jamaica Bay Wildlife refuge and crosses the bay twice on
two swinging bridges. The stretch between Howard Beach and Broad
Channel is the longest stretch between stations, over 3.5 miles. Allow
extra time for this trip as the round trip is long.
There are others, for sure, but this should get you started :)
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9729
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New signs on the Redbirds....
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:39 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 13:05:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: New signs on the Redbirds.... posted by Eric B on
February 11, 1998 at 20:59:42:
I think you meant to say 8 and hit your shift key by mistake. Yes, 8
was used to identify the 3rd Ave. local on maps before the el closed;
however, this number never appeared on 3rd Ave trains. R-12s and R-14s
used on the 3rd Ave. line said "Shuttle" on the end bulkhead; World's
Fair Lo-Vs only displayed destinations on their end signs.
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NEXT>9808
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant..
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:41 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 13:07:03:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by sdc-foti on February 12, 1998 at 09:45:06:
I really don't know why the LIRR went with GM...
From what I've heard from Metro North engineers, the Genesis locos are
pretty dependable, and very nice inside. Amtrak uses them into Penn,
without any major problems.
Weird thing though, I've heard that the Genesis has no frame on it !
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NEXT>9785
PREVIOUS>9770
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:43 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 12, 1998 at 13:33:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Adam on February 12,
1998 at 01:19:41:
Au contraire! There is a newsstand on the baggage claim level of the
USAirways terminal at LGA that sells pre-packaged MetroCards. Maybe we
should call 1-800-METROCARD and tell THEM!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9762
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:44 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 12, 1998 at 14:57:28:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SBA Dollars posted by Mark Greenwald on February
12, 1998 at 09:22:12:
The reason for the different ticket machines / bill changers on the
Baltimore Metro is that when section "C" was built, the original
vendor for the ticket machines , etc was no longer in business and a
new vendor had to be used. Just as a side note, the original vendor
was French and the first set of drawings were all in French. Nobody in
the MTA shop could read French, so they had to get the company to
provide an English copy.
There are slight difference between the machines on the original
section and the machines on section "B". (Mondawmin to Owings Mills)
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NEXT>9792
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Julius Vince
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Subway history
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:46 1998
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Posted by Julius Vince on February 12, 1998 at 15:11:15:
Can you tell me in what city and what year the very first subway began
operations?
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NEXT>9783
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>2/3 Service Distruption Web Page
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:51 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 12, 1998 at 16:06:13:
The TA (oops, NYCT/Subways) has put up a neat Web page on the
2/3 service disruptions.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9782
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 2/3 Service Distruption Web Page
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:54 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 12, 1998 at 16:09:01:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 2/3 Service Distruption Web Page posted by Todd
Glickman on February 12, 1998 at 16:08:12:
Well for some reason my linking isn't working. Sorry. Here it is:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/Subway/subsrvno.htm#lenox
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NEXT>9789
PREVIOUS>9769
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:57 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 12, 1998 at 16:32:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 09:21:01:
I would vote for the A line as well, but my reason is because of the
scenic
ride in the Rockaways and the sheer size of the line, I think the
longest in the system.
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NEXT>9797
PREVIOUS>9779
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:19:59 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 12, 1998 at 16:37:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
February 12, 1998 at 13:33:47:
I apologize for the misinformation, the people at 1-800-METROCARD
don't know what
they're talking about! They guy said I was the first person to ask
that question
ever!
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NEXT>9839
PREVIOUS>9744
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:09 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 12, 1998 at 16:45:06:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Droo on February
12, 1998 at 02:23:58:
I just mean collaboration as in a common bill for both EZ-Pass and
Metrocard.
Also, why not make Metrocard like EZ-Pass in that you have a constant
source of funding
with EZ-Pass when you supply them with a credit card. This way, you
won't need
to fill up your Metrocard all the time.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Equipment Changes
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:23 1998
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Posted by Tom on February 12, 1998 at 18:22:32:
Does anyone know if ther planning on changing any of the equipment??
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NEXT>9790
PREVIOUS>10081
POSTER>Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:27 1998
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Posted by Tom on February 12, 1998 at 18:30:14:
As of march 1 the B will be running from bedford pk rush hrs(145 st
middays) the C will be running from 168 St. Why are they switching
these routes?As long as i can remember the C has run to the bronx
during rush hrs...Is this switch permament??
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NEXT>9791
PREVIOUS>9784
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:29 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 12, 1998 at 18:30:57:
In Reply to: [8]Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
The diesel versions are being tested. The DE30ACs will be delayed due
to problems with the shoe beam configurations. The LIRR didn't go for
the Genesis II because of it's weight (550,000 Lbs) which would be a
significant problem on some of the bridges & viaducts.
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NEXT>9820
PREVIOUS>9788
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:33 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 12, 1998 at 18:34:24:
In Reply to: [8]B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by Tom
on February 12, 1998 at 18:30:14:
The primary reason for the switch is due to OPTO. With the C & A both
laying up in 207th St., it was easier to swap the R-32s and 38s witht
he R-44s for OPTO on the weekend. As for permanence, it's as permanent
as anything else is.
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NEXT>9793
PREVIOUS>9789
POSTER>SubwayBuff or CoolioCat
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:36 1998
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Posted by SubwayBuff or CoolioCat on February 12, 1998 at 19:06:55:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Ian on February 12, 1998 at 11:52:44:
My favorite line would have to be the 4. I like it because of the
Moterman's cab.
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NEXT>9819
PREVIOUS>9781
POSTER>Doug in Boston
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway history
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:40 1998
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Posted by Doug in Boston on February 12, 1998 at 19:28:32:
In Reply to: [8]Subway history posted by Julius Vince on February 12,
1998 at 15:11:15:
The first subway in North America was opened in Boston in 1897 (see
www.mbta.com). The first subway in the world, I believe, was in
London. I would check London Transport's site on the internet for
details.
Hope this helps.
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NEXT>9798
PREVIOUS>9791
POSTER>Daniel V.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:43 1998
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Posted by Daniel V. on February 12, 1998 at 19:29:54:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by SubwayBuff or CoolioCat on February 12, 1998 at 19:06:55:
I have 2 favorites: the 4 train from 138th St. to Brooklyn Bridge (if
you ever want to ride a train that makes turns at high speed, GET
ON!)... the other line is the N and QB when it traveled from Canal St.
to DeKalb over the Bridge... You want turns, YOU GOT THEM!
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NEXT>9815
PREVIOUS>9710
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Daily Metrocard
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:48 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 12, 1998 at 19:50:37:
In Reply to: [8]Daily Metrocard posted by Lou from Middletown on
February 11, 1998 at 14:30:33:
I don't know about the NYC cards but ATlanta's Marta Weekly is Sunday
thru Saturday, and the monthly is for the calendar month. Tjhere is no
dailt but you can order bulk two or 3 day cards- their web site
explains it better:
www.itsmarta.com
this site also shows conastruction of the new cut and cover subway
section through the Sandy Springs section of Metro Atlanta and the
future North Springs Station.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9754
POSTER>Allan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: In Search of Old Subway Maps
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:52 1998
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Posted by Allan on February 12, 1998 at 20:23:14:
In Reply to: [8]In Search of Old Subway Maps posted by Aaron on
February 11, 1998 at 16:00:49:
Try contacting:
Arnold Joseph
1140 Broadway
New York, NY 10001
212 - 532 - 0019
His hours are by appointment only - so call him first.
BTW - what do you consider Old Subway Maps?
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NEXT>9802
PREVIOUS>9767
POSTER>Daniel V.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:20:57 1998
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Posted by Daniel V. on February 12, 1998 at 20:34:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Steve B on
February 12, 1998 at 11:17:05:
Then Staten Island will never receive a transportation connection via
subway to the rest of the city... How about using some of the lower
level of the Verrazano to run the tracks from 95th St. to line that
could either be a subway or run at grade (I'm not sure if SI would
permit elevated tracks) and run the train into the center of the
Island (which really needs the train)... Have it terminate by the
Staten Island Mall... I know it may be impossible to do this, but
something has to be done... The ferry is good, but SI needs another
alternative that does not pollute the air as much as vehicles do...
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NEXT>9835
PREVIOUS>9785
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:01 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 12, 1998 at 20:41:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 11, 1998 at 17:47:46:
How about taking the M60 to 125th St. and Lexington Ave. Take the #4
or 5 down to Fulton Street (remember: the LEX EXPRESS is the fastest
way to get to downtown Manhattan) and PRESTO! You could reach
Manhattan (if you don't get stuck) in an hour.
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NEXT>9806
PREVIOUS>9793
POSTER>Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:05 1998
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Posted by Bootsy on February 12, 1998 at 20:46:25:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Daniel V. on February 12, 1998 at 19:29:54:
One of my favorites is the express run between Brooklyn Bridge and
14th Street on the Lexington Avenue line. There are a lot of curves in
this segment and the trains swing and sway and rattle and they usually
go pretty fast. I find it the most exciting on an R-26, or a
higher-type redbird.
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PREVIOUS>9772
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re:NYC Subway Automation
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:10 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on February 12, 1998 at 20:59:10:
In Reply to: [8]Re:NYC Subway Automation posted by Ed Sachs on
February 12, 1998 at 10:22:18:
Sorta off topic, but I have a picture of the fire here...
[9][LINK]Grand Central shuttle fire, 4/26/1964. Photographer
unknown...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>3654
POSTER>Daniel A. Valles
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>LIRR Track Maps
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:15 1998
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Posted by Daniel A. Valles on February 12, 1998 at 21:07:54:
I'm just curious... There are maps here for the tracks of the Subway
system... I was wondering: Would anybody know if a map (or maps) of
the LIRR tracks exist... I wanted to do some research on the history
of the LIRR, and part of my research is to analyze the different track
connections to existing (and extinct) lines of the LIRR... If anyone
has info, GRACIAS! You could post it here...
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9776
POSTER>David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R33s and R36s
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:24 1998
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Posted by David Pirmann on February 12, 1998 at 21:08:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: R33s and R36s posted by Steve B on February 12,
1998 at 12:38:32:
The Steam engine trains in London only ran on the Metropolitan and I
would guess District lines, both of which were built cut-and-cover
with air/light shafts at the stations and in between in the tunnels.
The steam probably wasn't that bad but as the deep tube railways were
built it was obviously a bad thing.
I don't know if you can find it around here but there is a book called
"Rails thru the Clay" (subtitle is something like "The Story of
London's Tube Railways"). It's very, very thorough on the construction
of the tube lines and the move to electrification in London.
And yes, the cars still have the year of manufacture on the
doorplates. Well, I know the 70s and 80s stock on the Piccadilly and
Jubilee line have them. The plates say something like "Metro Cammell -
1972 - England". (Metro Cammell being the manufacturer). I don't know
if the new Jubilee line and Central line cars have the date plates
though. Next time I'm there I'll check.
-dave
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NEXT>9811
PREVIOUS>9796
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:31 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 12, 1998 at 21:11:36:
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Daniel V. on
February 12, 1998 at 20:34:30:
I'm the guy who wants to get the train OFF the (Manhattan) Bridge.
While it is not necessarily true that running trains over the
Verranzano would cause a problem 60 years later, the record is not
good.
Some people are pushing a rail freight connection to Brooklyn. Given
that it would cost many times a rail bridge at Tappen Zee (not even
considered), it there is no way its cost could be justified relative
to other transportation investments (which were not making either),
the advocates have tried to make it seem as cheap as possible. So they
are proposing one track. Now a one track tunnel costs more than a two
track tunnel, but not twice as much. If we are going to spend a
cazillion, one would think they could at least run SIRT as well as
freight.
But even if there was a SIRT tunnel to 4th Avenue, there is no
capacity to bring SIRT into Manhattan --- because half the Manhattan
Bridge tracks are out.
A while ago, a NJ Transit official came to see me for data on Staten
Island. NJT wanted (plans to?) extend a light rail system along the
Hudson down to the bottom of Bayonne, and he wanted to evaluate the
potential for Staten Island park and ride. Perhaps if the Bayonne
Bridge could hold another deck, such light rail could be run south to
the Mall somehow. One would change at for the PATH to get to
Manhattan. But that would be big bucks.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9722
POSTER>wsteil
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:33 1998
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Posted by wsteil on February 12, 1998 at 21:41:12:
In Reply to: [7]Re: NYC Subway map in PDF on MTA website posted by
Gary Jacobi on February 11, 1998 at 11:12:48:
Adobie Reader does allow printing - I have Reader v3.0, with Netscape
3.04, and have printed several pdf files without a problem.
HOWEVER, the MTA PDF Subway Map must have Printing disabled, as the
PRINT button in Reader 3.0 is grayed out. In the FILE menu, the PRINT
SETUP button works fine; when the PRINT... button is selected, the
next screen doesn't come up to OK the print job.
As the warning on the MTA page says: "Unauthorized duplication or
modification of this map is prohibited". I guess they mean it!
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NEXT>9805
PREVIOUS>10052
POSTER>Ray O.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>#7 line viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:36 1998
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Posted by Ray O. on February 12, 1998 at 22:40:43:
Any one know the reason they went to a viaduct after the Queensborough
Plaza station heading towards Flushing, engineering, economics, looks,
what?
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NEXT>9817
PREVIOUS>9804
POSTER>Droo
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:38 1998
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Posted by Droo on February 13, 1998 at 00:14:48:
In Reply to: [7]#7 line viaduct posted by Ray O. on February 12, 1998
at 22:40:43:
Don't know the EXACT reason..
but when the #7 was being built, way back when, it was through mostly
undeveloped land.
I don't think the designers and builders really expected the areas
surrounding the line to become as developed as it has, and thus didn't
consider tunneling an economically viable option.
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NEXT>9921
PREVIOUS>9798
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:40 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 13, 1998 at 00:38:42:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Steve on February 12, 1998 at 18:30:57:
When will we start seeing the new diesls in service?? I've heard it'll
be soon, but then again....
How much lighter are the GM jobs going to be??
Do you know any specific bridges/viaducts where it was a problem, or
is it just a general systemwide thing?? I tend to think the bridge
between Manhasset and Greak Neck would be, but I can't think of any
others...
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>S40 Howland Hook Container Port Extension
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:42 1998
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Posted by Steve L on February 13, 1998 at 00:39:56:
would someone be able to assist me ,,in drawing a
diagram of the Bus Route,,WITHIN THE PORT PROPERTY
I know the Bus uses Western Av,and enters the Port .I am looking for
an exact diagram of the actual turnaround routing WITHIN
Thank you ...Steve Christof@webtv.net
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9778
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant..
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:46 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:03:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant..
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 13:07:03:
I don't think the genisis has a frame....
According to TRAINS Magazine, June 1992 Issue, Page 41, the Genisis,
then refered to as the AMD103, the design is called moncoque. There is
a frame, but the body of the locomotive is part of the structure. For
component repair, the component needs to be lifted out through the
roof.(Sounds like a maintainance headache to me.) As for the weight
issue, AMTRAK specs cited in the article call for it to weigh 247,000
Lbs.
FL9's I can't find any weight info on..
The new DE30AC's being assembled by Super Steel Schenectedy, I can't
locate the current info, but it has a stainless steel body, and is
relatively light, comparatively.
-Hank
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NEXT>9881
PREVIOUS>9753
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: ...And Another Question on the R-142s
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:51 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:08:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: ...And Another Question on the R-142s posted by
sdc-foti on February 12, 1998 at 09:47:29:
The last operational plan I saw had the R62 going to the 2,4,5,6,7,
retireing most of the red birds; and the New cars going to the 1,3,4,6
to replace the R62 that are shifted to the other lines.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9761
POSTER>Phil M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card restrictions
DATE>Feb 19 21:21:55 1998
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Posted by Phil M on February 13, 1998 at 01:10:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail...and DC's Metro Card
restrictions posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 11, 1998 at
12:42:06:
The NYC subway and the LIRR both have lines that are within 3 miles of
the airport. If the PA has $ 1.5 billion for a light rail line why
don't they just connect the subway or the LIRR directly into the
airport? This will provide a one seat ride into Manhattan and a
connection to the rest of the system. I do not understand why they
want to build an incompatible, unproven system? Knowing the PA they
will require a separate ticket so the enforced tranfer will be really
convenient! As for the cost, the most expensive subway line built in
the US to date has come in at about $250 million per mile so 3 miles
of new subway or commuter rail line should not exceed the cost of the
light rail line, especially if it is initially single tracked. As for
the governments rules on spending money for airport access maybe one
or both of NY's senior senators can have the rules waived.
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NEXT>9812
PREVIOUS>9802
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:00 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:11:05:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 12, 1998 at 21:11:36:
Trolley cars were a consideration for this bridge when it was built,
and there is room on the bridge for the tracks. The Bayonne is also
the least-used bridge the port authority has. You can cross that
bridge at rush hour, and see no other cars.
-Hank
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NEXT>9818
PREVIOUS>9811
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:05 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:14:18:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Daniel V. on
February 12, 1998 at 20:34:30:
The Verrazzano Bridge cannot handle the weight of a modern train.
Light rail is a possibility, however, but I doubt it will ever happen.
AIR transport will be obsolete by the time SI is connected by rail to
the rest of the city.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9775
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SBA Dollars -- Baltimore vs. Washington
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:08 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:19:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SBA Dollars -- Baltimore vs. Washington posted by
Steve B on February 12, 1998 at 12:49:44:
There are still TVM's in the city transit system. There are several on
SI. They will eventually be replaced with metrocard vending machines.
As they work now, you put in at least $5, no $1 bills, only 5,10,20
and get tokens and change. One of these machine malfunctioned at one
time, and I and several other commuters were able to collect over 300
tokens. I sold them all for $1 each at St. George, South Ferry, and
Penn Station. Fare at the time was $1.15.
-Hank
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NEXT>9850
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Buff Strength and Subway Cars
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:12 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:25:15:
I was just thinking, when the R44/46 was delivered, they made a high
speed test on the LIRR. Did they run on isolated tracks, was there a
waiver involved, or do they meet FRA buff standards?
Also, when SIR's R44's were being rebuilt, we had two sets of R46's
(they ran with JFK express front signs, and the side signs seemed to
vary) that were used. If SIR is classified as a freight railroad, (I
know they are exempt from some FRA regs, like locomotive inspection)
were they up to buff strength?
Another issue is what the buff limit actually is. There are small
subway collisions that cause little damage, and then you have things
like the Willy B disaster, that detroy subway cars. What is design
spec for the car ends to withstand force?
-Hank
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NEXT>9837
PREVIOUS>9794
POSTER>Phil M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Daily Metrocard
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:15 1998
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Posted by Phil M on February 13, 1998 at 01:33:33:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Daily Metrocard posted by subway-buff on February
12, 1998 at 19:50:37:
I don't know about metrocard but I have bought unlimited transit
passes in New Orleans and San Diego for use on their busses and
streetcars, They were not electronic. Depending on which one you
bought they were valid for one or more days. They were punched with
the date or dates that they were valid. At 12.01 AM the next day it
was time to buy a new pass no matter what time you purchased it. They
were very convenient and I have always been surprised why a large
transit system like New York has never offered them before.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9674
POSTER>Phil M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NY TIMES made a mistake...God forbid
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:18 1998
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Posted by Phil M on February 13, 1998 at 01:41:29:
In Reply to: [8]NY TIMES made a mistake...God forbid posted by George
on February 10, 1998 at 19:30:46:
I wish I had saved the articles but in years past the New York Times
has called the GG1, one of the most successful electric locomotives in
history, "a mighty diesel", and a "powerful steam engine".
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NEXT>9831
PREVIOUS>9805
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:20 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 13, 1998 at 03:39:43:
In Reply to: [8]Re: #7 line viaduct posted by Droo on February 13,
1998 at 00:14:48:
You answered what he asked, but not what he meant. It seems clear to
me the question really was: why was a _concrete_ viaduct used, as
opposed to the more usual "el" structure of exposed steel? For that
matter, how much steel is under the concrete? Anybody know?
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NEXT>9824
PREVIOUS>9812
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:22 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 13, 1998 at 04:03:30:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 12, 1998 at 21:11:36:
Since the SIR(T) is considered a true railroad, whose cars must meet
FRA "buff strength" and other regulations, and the subway is not, a
connection between them would raise some issues. Presumably, before
the SIR could be connected to the subway system through the new
tunnel, it would have to be permanently severed from the North Shore
line and its bridge connection to New Jersey. But these are problems
we can only dream of having; the chances of building a connection are
slim to none at this point.
As for the cross-harbor freight tunnel, a single-track tunnel seems
mighty foolish. A two-track tunnel would be much more useful--provided
that the Bay Ridge line can also be made two tracks over its whole
length. Is the ROW wide enough? Is it true, for that matter, that it
is currently just one track? There is also the question of just where
it would connect. Would it go under Newark Bay as well and connect
with the port at Elizabeth/Newark, which is where most freight
operations are today? Or would it go to Bayonne (the Military Ocean
Terminal?) or the Jersey City area just north of there, then over
Newark Bay by bridge? Or perhaps even have two or more branches to
these points?
A RR bridge over the Tappan Zee would be ugly, by I guess it would be
cheaper to build in and of itself to due the shallow water. I don't
think there are any E/W RR lines in that area, though. What about a RR
bridge at Newburgh/Beacon, or fixing the bridge at Poughkipsee?
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NEXT>9925
PREVIOUS>9792
POSTER>Max Roberts
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway history
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:25 1998
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Posted by Max Roberts on February 13, 1998 at 04:30:13:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Subway history posted by Doug in Boston on
February 12, 1998 at 19:28:32:
I'm not sure about exact dates as I don't have my books to hand, but
here goes:
The Metropolitan Line began running about 1863, was constructed by
excavating cuttings in streets and then covering them over. It was
steam operated and the tunnels had frequent openings to let the smoke
out.
The first purpose-built electric underground railway in London with
the City and South London Railway (opening in the late 1890's off the
top of my head). The tunnels were deep level bores connected to the
surface by lifts. They were only 8 feet in diameter and the tiny
trains were hauled by electric locomotives. The line was not converted
to Underground standards until the 1920s (i.e. 12 foot tunnels and
multiple unit trains).
Hope this helps
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NEXT>9821
PREVIOUS>9790
POSTER>Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:28 1998
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Posted by Tom on February 13, 1998 at 08:48:59:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Steve on February 12, 1998 at 18:34:24:
But the C runs to 168 St on weekends anyways, so why would this effect
weekday schedule, unless there gonna go to OPTO on weekdays too.
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NEXT>9825
PREVIOUS>9820
POSTER>Wayne Johnson
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:31 1998
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Posted by Wayne Johnson on February 13, 1998 at 09:30:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Tom on February 13, 1998 at 08:48:59:
If NYCT had decided not to do the B/C North terminal switch, and
implemented OPTO as they plan to - I'm sure that even with the best
planning some C line trains will end up at Concourse and need to moved
to 207 Street. With the terminal swap this is eliminated
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NEXT>9826
PREVIOUS>10041
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:33 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 09:32:07:
In Reply to: [7]Equipment Changes posted by Tom on February 12, 1998
at 18:22:32:
I hate answering a question with a question, but aren't they always
changing the equipment, i.e. new trains, new paint jobs, new signs,
replaced motors, etc. ???
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NEXT>9892
PREVIOUS>10117
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:42 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 09:42:41:
In Reply to: [7]Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
My favorite is the Brighton Line Express from Church Avenue to Kings
Highway. 4 good-looking tracks on a stone track bed on a bright sunny
day with buildings nearby and a business district at every station.
Second is the Lexington Express from Bklyn Br to GCT. I especially
like when the express dips a little below the local so the wheels
don't deafen everyone waiting at local platforms. The 7th Ave Exp.
between Chambers and 96 is similar.
I also like the separation of the Broadway Local from the Lenox just
north of 96 St. The express seems to go so low down, and the local is
so high up...yet all of this is underground. Amazing.
Question: Which line is used in the opening of NYPD Blue? My brother
thinks it's the 7th Ave somewhere between Chambers and 14 St. It looks
it to me, too, but he lives in Albany and I live in DC, so we really
aren't sure anymore...
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NEXT>9890
PREVIOUS>9818
POSTER>Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:45 1998
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Posted by Steve B on February 13, 1998 at 11:18:08:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:14:18:
The Verrazano Bridge was designed as a motor vehicle crossing, period.
Interestingly eonugh, the lower level of the George Washington Bridge
was originally designed and planned for subway trains. It could still
be converted for rail traffic, if desired. The GWB is one strong
bridge: a small plane crashed onto it in 1965 and nothing happened. On
top of that, when it opened in 1931, two platoons of soldiers marched
across the bridge from either end IN STEP, and, while it shook a
little, nothing else happened. Too bad the Williamsburg and Manhattan
Bridges weren't built the same way as the GWB.
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NEXT>9829
PREVIOUS>9821
POSTER>Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:49 1998
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Posted by Tom on February 13, 1998 at 12:05:30:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Wayne Johnson on February 13, 1998 at 09:30:57:
I beleive after 630 any C trains that go to Bedford Park would then go
into the yard......Why not just send those trains to euclid, and on
the way back have them terminate at 168,Then put them in the 207 st
yard...in the mornings send the trains from 168(5am-6-30am)then the
trains that start in euclid can go to bedford park...
The C line is my favorite line, thats why im putting up a stink about
this switch....i hope i am not bugging anyone or being a nusicence
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NEXT>9851
PREVIOUS>9822
POSTER>Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:54 1998
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Posted by Tom on February 13, 1998 at 12:07:41:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 09:32:07:
Im talking about like what they did to the B&Q lines, by changing the
whole fleet
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NEXT>9828
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct & SMith/9th Street Viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:22:58 1998
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Posted by Mark S Feinman on February 13, 1998 at 12:58:21:
In Reply to: [8]Re: #7 line viaduct posted by Dan Schwartz on February
13, 1998 at 03:39:43:
It wasn't until I looked at Kramer's "Building the Independent Subway"
that I realized that under the concrete that makes up the Smith/9th St
viaduct, there is steelwork. SO I'd guess the same is true for the #7
viaduct. But why apply the concrete over it? WOuldn't that make the
structure unnecessarily heavy?
--Mark
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NEXT>9891
PREVIOUS>9827
POSTER>Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct & SMith/9th Street Viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:01 1998
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Posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 13, 1998 at 13:41:18:
In Reply to: [8]Re: #7 line viaduct & SMith/9th Street Viaduct posted
by Mark S Feinman on February 13, 1998 at 12:58:21:
I kind of remember the #7 viaduct being a balasted type a few yerars
back - the concrete is a recent addition. I believe that it was
origionally concrete arches with ballast on top, but durring the
recent rehab, the MTA went over to a totally concrete setup.
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NEXT>9847
PREVIOUS>9825
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:05 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 14:44:23:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Tom on February 13, 1998 at 12:05:30:
Not to be too argumentative, but what is so special about
(specifically) the C train in the Bronx? After all if you get on at or
below 145 you won't even notice the difference. If you get on above
145 and go to or below 59, you probably change for the express anyway.
So now one can do this with the B train instead. I see no difference
in any train trip except for people who take the local from 59th or
below and get off after 145 without changing for the express (and vice
versa), which I can't imagine is that many during rush hours.
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NEXT>9832
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Allen
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Lenox Line Reconstuction
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:11 1998
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Posted by Allen on February 13, 1998 at 15:38:01:
Ok now im pissed..
I ride the 2 train everyday from flatbush to 14thst .. from flatbush
in the morning..
This is the worst load of crap I have ever seen. Run ALL I REPEAT ALL
2 trains from flatbush to 96st.. why cant they do that??
this is going to be horrible.. i gave up on the d and q cause i hate
the bridge.. now i have to switch onto a 9 car #3 train..
SCREW U ALL MTA!!! :>
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9817
POSTER>Frank Gatazka
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:21 1998
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Posted by Frank Gatazka on February 13, 1998 at 16:16:46:
In Reply to: [8]#7 line viaduct posted by Ray O. on February 12, 1998
at 22:40:43:
The Queens Blvd. Viaduct was built as an ornamental el structure as
part of the dual contracts expansion of the NYC subway. Because Queens
Blvd. was built as the widest street in Queens at the time (and
remains so to this day), sort of the "Boulavard dela Paix" of Queens,
it was decided to complement the street's status with an ornamental
structure. Similar "ornamental" concrete work can be seen on
contemporary El's in the Bronx.
Woodlawn, Bedford Park Blvd., and Pelham Bay Park feature similar,
though less "art deco-y" concrete treatments. It is interesting to
note that the concrete, ballasted deck structure was considered for
ALL dual contracts El's, but was ultimately rejected due to economic
factors. See the recently published book, "Building the New New York
Transit System, 1915" for details. The same book has detailed drawings
showing the steel and masonry construction of the Queens Blvd.
viaduct. Chicago also used sections of "ornamental" structure on the
South Side El as well as the Metropolitan West Side El. When crossing
large and important avenues, the city commissioners required that the
El companies use the masonry construction for both appearance as well
as sound deadening. This was also done on the old Third Avenue El in
the Bronx above 200th Street near Mosholu Parkway. That structure
employed a very decorative steel arch construction under the concrete
roadbed. Because special arrangements had to be made to remove the
structure, it remained in place, marooned by itself, after the bulk of
the old Third Avenue El was dismantled.
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NEXT>9848
PREVIOUS>9830
POSTER>Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Lenox Line Reconstuction
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:24 1998
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Posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 16:37:41:
In Reply to: [7]Lenox Line Reconstuction posted by Allen on February
13, 1998 at 15:38:01:
Take the Lexington to Union Square, and the 14th St. train one or two
stops. Then you will avoid the linear thinking ones who jam the #3
train up 7th Avenue.
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NEXT>9846
PREVIOUS>10181
POSTER>John B. Bredin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:27 1998
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Posted by John B. Bredin on February 13, 1998 at 16:50:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Larry Littlefield
on February 10, 1998 at 20:25:01:
My question is: When did this FAA stupidity begin?
Here in Chicago, the Blue Line, extended to O'Hare in 1981-83, goes
into the airport itself and the subway terminal is under the main
parking garage, fairly convenient to the terminals. But the Orange
Line to Midway, built about a decade later, does not enter the airport
but terminates over a block east of the terminals on the wrong side of
Cicero Avenue, where you then have to walk over a block and a half on
an overhead walkway to the terminals.
Isn't the new train station at Baltimore-Washington Int'l in the
airport itself? How was that permitted but not direct and through
service for Midway or the JFK proposals?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9665
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: More Subway & El Books
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:33 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 13, 1998 at 19:24:56:
In Reply to: [8]Re: More Subway & El Books posted by Mark S Feinman on
February 09, 1998 at 11:55:07:
After reading my books, I have not found much reference to the
Manhattan Bridge. Other than it was built and the BRT started using
it, so far, I have not seen anything about its planning and rapid
transit use.
I have a pre-completion postcard of the era that shows an elevated
terminal on the Manhattan side. Does anyone have any more pertinent
info or a reference to where that backround or subsequent info may
exist.
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NEXT>9838
PREVIOUS>9797
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:41 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 13, 1998 at 19:37:54:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Adam on February 12,
1998 at 16:37:57:
The Carey bus to the island worked well the last time I was in NYC.
Does it still work? I got off at Grand Central and took a bus to my
freinds appartment
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9771
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around from airports
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:48 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 13, 1998 at 19:47:34:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around from airports posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 12, 1998 at 12:10:28:
When I go to National I allways ride the Blue line train to Meto
Center and the Hotel. It's too handy.
Before I moved here I used to fly to O'Hare and ride the Blue Line to
Chicago. Now it's METRA or the The Dempster station and the Swift to
the (Weekends direct to Howard St.) Red Line or Purple Line, depending
on my day in the city.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9815
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Daily Metrocard
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:51 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 13, 1998 at 19:51:42:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Daily Metrocard posted by Phil M on February 13,
1998 at 01:33:33:
San Francisco, Toronto and Boston have Scratch off validated tourist
daily or multiday passes. They worked well.
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NEXT>9860
PREVIOUS>9835
POSTER>Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:55 1998
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Posted by Joe M on February 13, 1998 at 19:59:35:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Steve B on February
12, 1998 at 11:05:05:
Once in Manhattin to get places fast take the Subway to see the city
ride the buses up and down the avenues
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9786
POSTER>Serafin Jr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Feb 19 21:23:58 1998
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Posted by Serafin Jr on February 13, 1998 at 20:18:26:
In Reply to: [8]NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 10, 1998 at 15:10:50:
Why not reactivate the old LIRR spur that connects The Howad Beach
line to the LIRR Main line And build a 3.2 mile track into the
airport. And from there to the light rail loop around the airport. Now
you have a direct connection from Penn Station to JFK via LIRR. The
trip may be 20 to 30 min. Now that makes cents. And it don't cost much
because It's half build. But the city like wasting our hard earned
cents. Remenber in the 70's "Take the TRAIN TO THE PLANE. it never
worked because it took to long via subway route to Howard Beach
Station to then take a Bus to the Plane. Now there going to replace
the bus with a toy train. They miss the whole dam problem again. Let
not waste out time writing love letter to each other about the Train
to the Plane and write to your Mayor or higher. TAKE A 80MPH TRAIN
FROM PENN STATION TO THE PLANE IN 20 MINUTES. The fare is must less
then 1billion dollars. Is sound like a lot of under the table money to
me. (Or is it just me?)
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NEXT>9842
PREVIOUS>10164
POSTER>David L.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:01 1998
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Posted by David L. on February 13, 1998 at 20:21:53:
Is there a special reason why both 34 St-Penn Stations on the 7th and
8th Avenue lines are designed with an island platform serving the
uptown/downtown express services and two side platforms for the
uptown/downtown local service, as opposed to two island platform- each
serving either uptown or downtown trains like most other express
stations.
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NEXT>9899
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Serafin Jr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Are NYC Subway car being use elsewhere?
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:03 1998
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Posted by Serafin Jr on February 13, 1998 at 20:43:38:
Are there any NYC old Subway cars being use in other City in the US.
Or has there been dual contract in building Subway cars. (LIke the r44
@ r46 being like the LIRR M-1,2,3.) I heared the the new Path car for
2003 are going to be the same contract as the new IRT car that are now
being build. Here the web site I got that from:
http://stdsbbs.ieee.org/groups/railtransit/cbtc.html
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NEXT>9875
PREVIOUS>9840
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:06 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 13, 1998 at 21:48:43:
In Reply to: [8]34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
February 13, 1998 at 20:21:53:
The stations were designed in this manner to discourage riders from
making local-express switches, as it was known (when the subway lines
were built) that the stations would be busy with rail commuters.
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NEXT>9844
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Ray. O.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Ditmars Station, Astoria
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:09 1998
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Posted by Ray. O. on February 13, 1998 at 22:59:03:
Ok, I believe the el was built in 1917 +/-. When was the Hellgate
bridge built? The question, what came first, the El or the bridge
approach, and if it was the bridge why did they go for a concrete arch
over 31st street rather than truss as they did on the down grade side,
why that short section of viaduct at all?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9843
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ditmars Station, Astoria
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:11 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 13, 1998 at 23:40:06:
In Reply to: [8]Ditmars Station, Astoria posted by Ray. O. on February
13, 1998 at 22:59:03:
The El was in operation a year before the Hell Gate Bridge was in
service.
The construction of the bridge predated the El by several years
though.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9546
POSTER>Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Manhattan Bridge Subway Alternatives - Tell the Governor and Mayor
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:19 1998
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Posted by Mellow One on February 13, 1998 at 23:48:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Manhattan Bridge Subway Alternatives - Tell the
Governor and Mayor posted by Todd Glickman on February 08, 1998 at
16:07:32:
See my "More Subway Books" below.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9833
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:25 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 13, 1998 at 23:52:14:
In Reply to: [7]No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
posted by John B. Bredin on February 13, 1998 at 16:50:56:
The BWI Light Rail Station is integral with the new International
Terminal, which is connected to the rest of BWI. Everything was built
at the same time, and the Penn/BWI opened late because the MD
Transportation Secretary wanted everything to open at once. I suspect
that the NY "Probition" is just a NY thing. BWI is an airport, just
like JFK, and the International Terminal, complete with rail
connection, was built 1995-1998.
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NEXT>9849
PREVIOUS>9829
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:28 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 13, 1998 at 23:57:40:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Steve on February 12, 1998 at 18:34:24:
Steve
That raises another question, though.
I'm noticing they are going to operate the C's into Brooklyn for an
extra hour. Are they still going to run trains to WTC on weekdays, or
are they just going to go to the all-local A after 10 PM.
And does THIS have anything to do with OPTO?
Michael
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NEXT>9858
PREVIOUS>9832
POSTER>Mike Klufas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Lenox Line Reconstuction
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:32 1998
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Posted by Mike Klufas on February 14, 1998 at 00:05:48:
In Reply to: [8]Lenox Line Reconstuction posted by Allen on February
13, 1998 at 15:38:01:
Allen--
YOU'RE unhappy? For you, this involves switching to a different train.
Think of the poor schleps who live along Lenox Avenue whose lives are
going to be totally disrupted because of this work.
If you think about it, when's the last time a tunnel was rebuilt
completely while still partially in service?
Perhaps the good news is that this is completely an MTA project (some
other agencies may have minor roles, such as moving utility lines, but
that's very minor). So if something goes wrong, you can blame the MTA
(unlike the Manhattan Bridge fiasco, where you don't know who to
blame.
Michael
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NEXT>9853
PREVIOUS>9847
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:36 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 00:44:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Wayne Johnson on February 13, 1998 at 09:30:57:
Exactly. Besides, the A is the only line that has more PM trains than
AM trains (2 more). To have the extra cars needed for these two
trains, 2 C trains were supposed to be transferred from Concourse Yard
to 207th St. yard every weekday. This was rarely done because of the
expense (unless there was a car shortage on the A line). The B/C swap
eliminated the need for this swap when there was a car shortage on the
A line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9814
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Buff Strength and Subway Cars
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:39 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 01:05:40:
In Reply to: [8]Buff Strength and Subway Cars posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:25:15:
On the R-46s (and up) the couplers are held in the draft gear by shear
pins (4 per coupler) These bolts are designed to shear at 180,000
ft/lbs, therefore, a single coupler will absorb 720,000 ft/lbs. While
this may seem like a large amount of force, consider this: An R-46 A
car weighs 93,000 lbs and a B car weighs 90,000 Lbs. An empty 8-car
consist weighs 732,000 lbs. An 8-car R-46 moving at 10 MPH (15
ft/sec), striking a stationary object generates 10,980,000 ft/lbs.
Since the couplers at the open ends of the train absorb little force,
the 14 ends in the middle of the train will absorb the brunt of the
force. That's 10,080,000 ft/lbs. leaving 900,000 ft/lbs of force to do
structural damage to the train or whatever it strikes. This
relationship can also be used to approximate the speed of a train
involved in a collision.
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NEXT>9882
PREVIOUS>9826
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:45 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 01:13:41:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Tom on
February 13, 1998 at 12:07:41:
I guess the 4 major ones are:(not in any specific order)
1. R-142 & R-142A will replace the Redbirds. The R-62s will move to
the #7 line.
2. 100 R-143s will be assigned to the L Line.
3. The 292 R-68s on the D line will be replaced with 380 R-42s in
1999.
4. The R-62As on the #1/9 lines will be linked into 5-car units.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>LIRR Locos.
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:47 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 01:21:41:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 13, 1998 at 00:38:42:
I'm told that the new locos will be about 475,000 lbs and still 50,000
lbs over the original specifications. As for which bridges & viaducts,
the Port Jeff branch has several especially in Northport & Smithtown.
There are several bridges on the Montauk branch. I don't know which if
not all are the source of concern. The new Kawasaki coaches will start
being delivered next month (I'm told). Figure to start seeing the new
equipment in time for the summer.
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NEXT>9854
PREVIOUS>9849
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:50 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 14, 1998 at 01:57:32:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Mike Klufas on February 13, 1998 at 23:57:40:
The service change notices prominently state that "service south of
145 St. will not change", so I think you are wrong about the extra
hour, and C service to WTC weekday evenings will continue.
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NEXT>9903
PREVIOUS>9853
POSTER>Wado Taniguchi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:24:55 1998
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Posted by Wado Taniguchi on February 14, 1998 at 02:31:57:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Carl M. Rabbin on February 13, 1998 at 14:44:23:
The C or the old CC train was the only train that travelled across all
the four TA serviced boroughs. It's lost its Queens part and now it's
losing it's Bronx part, I feel kind a sad, too.
Although, to me, that was the only favorable thing about the C.
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NEXT>9901
PREVIOUS>10084
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Kiss George's Rear
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:03 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 14, 1998 at 09:00:08:
As you know, George Steinbrenner wants to move the Yankees out of the
Bronx because the road and rail connections to Yankee Stadium are not
convenient to the baseball fans he cares about -- those in the
suburbs. So George wants the city to spend a billion dollars to build
a deck over the West Side Yards, another billion to build a lux-o
stadium, all at a rent which is claimed sufficient but will probably
be optional. Otherwise, he'll move to New Jersey. Heck, the Mets only
want half a billion.
With lots of money seemingly available which can only be used for
George, does anyone have other suggestions to kiss his rear?
Here's one from me. The Concourse Subway yard is conveniently located
to the Major Deegan (via Jerome Avenue) and the Saw Mill Parkway (via
Monsholu). One could build a deck over it (it has to be cheaper than
the West Side Yards) and a subway platform under it. Then one could
build (or allow private interests to build) parking garages over the
yard. On game days, express trains could be run directly from the
parking lots at the yard to a new platform under the stadium. It would
take about ten minutes, and would make it unnecessary for fans from
the north to crunch down the Deegan to the Stadium (freeing up road
space for New Jersey).
Off game day, the parking lots could be used for park and ride
expresses. I know Westchesterites who drive into northern Manhattan
and switch to a subway, because they work on the West Side (away from
Grand Central) and the toll and token are cheaper than Metro North and
station parking. The parking lot cost would take the place of the
toll, and the TA would get more business (the express would go on to
Manhattan, perhaps down 8th Avenue). If a Connecticut resident who
worked in Manhattan wished to attend a ball game, they could park and
ride at the Concourse Yard in the morning, and stop off at the stadium
on the way home. A theater express park and ride is also possible --
could the separate lower platform at 42nd be accessed from the
northern express tracks?
Finally, the parking garages could be used by Manhattan residents to
store the cars they use to go to their weekend homes to the north.
Parking in Manhattan is scarce and expensive, and an express trip on
the D or 4 might be worth the savings.
Aside from the obvious but seemingly politically unacceptable choices
(ie. dispatching a fleet of TA buses to escort the Yankees to New
Jersey and telling them to go to hell) any other ideas? Don't blame me
for the overall situation -- I've refused to attend, watch, listen to
or read about baseball since the strike that cancelled the World
Series.
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NEXT>9862
PREVIOUS>10145
POSTER>Mike Rothenberg
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>What is OPTO?
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:11 1998
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Posted by Mike Rothenberg on February 14, 1998 at 09:15:47:
What does OPTO stand for? What is it supposed to do? Why is it being
implemented? Is it used elsewhere and does it work? What lines is it
being proposed for?
Thanks.
Mike Rothenberg
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve L
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>IRT Destination Sign Readings
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:16 1998
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Posted by Steve L on February 14, 1998 at 09:39:17:
Does anyone have a complete up to date listing
RedBirds ,,,R62 ,,etc
Thank you
Christof@webtv.net
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9848
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Lenox Line Reconstuction
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:21 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 11:01:34:
In Reply to: [8]Lenox Line Reconstuction posted by Allen on February
13, 1998 at 15:38:01:
They can't run all #2 trains up the West Side to 96 Street & back to
Brooklyn because the they're also a link for Bronx residents coming
into Manhattan. I'm sure it will be crowded & confused the first week,
then everyone will get used to the changes the following week. New
Yorkers learn how to adjust.
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NEXT>9861
PREVIOUS>10068
POSTER>H.Ootani
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:27 1998
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Posted by H.Ootani on February 14, 1998 at 12:50:53:
I wonder where do the people got the name of car type like "R-62" from
?
It seems there's no sign on the subway car that announces its car type
R-62 but just "1300", and it is almost impossible to tell which type
of car I ma riding, if I've not been a site such as here.
Or does the conductor happen to say "Thank you for riding on our
R-62..." ?
(In Japan, the name of car type is shown on the body, but I'm sure
that very few person can tell what he actually rides on every morning.
I also wonder how much popular is the name like "R-62" or "Redbird"
among NewYorkers)
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NEXT>9872
PREVIOUS>9838
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:39 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 13:05:57:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Joe M on February 13,
1998 at 19:37:54:
Awww, anyone who's reading subtalk probably doesn't want to take a
private express bus when landing at LaGuardia. If this couple's
destination is Astoria or Harlem, the m60 is efficient. But anywhere
else, it's the q33 to either the #7 (for midtown destinations and a
nice el trip thru Queens) or the E train (for most other locations in
Manhattan).
The q33 is used by so many visitors to LaGuardia that a few of the
buses look more like something you'd see in the Hertz fleet, rather
than the standard Queens Surface Co. bus, with extra wide doors & room
for luggage.
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NEXT>9866
PREVIOUS>9859
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:47 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 13:06:34:
In Reply to: [8]The name of car type posted by H.Ootani on February
14, 1998 at 12:50:53:
R-62 is not the name of the car. Typically, NYCT cars do not have
names. R-62 is part of the contract # under which the cars were
purchased. Some NYCT cars have names hung on them (figuratively
speaking) like the 'RedBirds', The 'Brightonliners', the 'Slants' or
even 'The Flivers'. These and other similar names were all unofficial.
Other names which stuck which were more accurate were the 'ABs' or the
'D-Types'.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9856
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What is OPTO?
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:53 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 14, 1998 at 13:12:15:
In Reply to: [8]What is OPTO? posted by Mike Rothenberg on February
14, 1998 at 09:15:47:
1. What is OPTO? O P T O - One person train operation.
2. Why is it being implimented? To save oney.
3. Is it used elsewhere and does it work? Yes and I suppose it works
in some applications.
4. What lines is it being proposed for? It's more than a proposal.
It's already on the B line among others. Soon coming to the C & G
line. Of course the IRT has OPTO too.
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NEXT>9871
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Chicopee3
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Westchester Ctr Private Carriers===Buses
DATE>Feb 19 21:25:57 1998
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Posted by Chicopee3 on February 14, 1998 at 13:24:50:
does anyone have a complete --up to date listing,,of Private Bus Co
and Routes in Westchester Cty
I am relocating to the area,and would like to do some research work on
Transportation
excuding Liberty Lines,,Bee Line,NY Bus Service
Thank you
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Chicopee3
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>NYC Transit Low Floor and MCI Buses
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:01 1998
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Posted by Chicopee3 on February 14, 1998 at 13:32:32:
can anyone assist with the following info
Fleet Numbers Mfgr Date Model Numbers
for the 1998 1999 Low Floor and MCI
Thank you
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10139
POSTER>Lou from Middletown
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC:A Metrobeef
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:06 1998
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Posted by Lou from Middletown on February 14, 1998 at 15:23:37:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
February 12, 1998 at 13:33:47:
Which brings up the point: why don't they sell Metrocards out-of town,
like London Transport does; in fact they could create a TouristPass
which would be good for a specified time, and sell it at a discounted
rate; or does that make too much business sense????
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NEXT>9873
PREVIOUS>9861
POSTER>Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:12 1998
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Posted by Dan Schwartz on February 14, 1998 at 15:26:57:
In Reply to: [8]The name of car type posted by H.Ootani on February
14, 1998 at 12:50:53:
I think the great majority of New Yorkers don't pay any attention to
the differences between the various types of subway cars used on the
system, and certainly are not familiar with the R-numbers used to
designate various car types. Even those who do notice don't
necessarily know the numbers. For example, I used to think of the R-32
and R-38 cars as "those stainless steel cars with the all the ridges
outside" and "those stainless steel cars without all the ridges
outside". The original equipment cars of the IND were not the "R-1 to
R-9 series" but simply the original equipment cars of the IND, etc.
The R-30 cars were to me "those scaled-up versions of IRT cars that
run on the BMT". Later on, I found out the R-numbers associated with
each type. This board, and the nyc.transit newsgroup, have been very
helpful in that regard. I still can't tell the difference between the
various types of "redbird" cars (R-29, R33, R-36, others?), except for
the basic difference between the mainline and "World's Fair" cars (the
windows).
Actually, from the R-40 cars on, the R-series numbers have been
publicized from time to time in newspaper stories, and I have been
aware of the numbers associated with these later cars for many years,
but the numbers of the "box-shaped" cars (R-38 and before) were more
obscure, at least to me.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9774
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 63rd St. Connection Construction
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:15 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 15:31:04:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 63rd St. Connection Construction posted by Peter
Dougherty on February 12, 1998 at 12:39:36:
When you say no revenue service for G trains on the Queens Blvd. line,
are you ruling out current rush hour local service to 71-Continental?
That's so shortsighted.
That would mean 24 hours a day riders would have to use 3 different
trains to get from 21 St. to 36 St. in Queens (not to mention the long
walk between the G & the E/F). Surely some councilperson from
Williamsburgh, Long Island City or Greenpoint will protest this.
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NEXT>9972
PREVIOUS>9554
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:22 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 16:34:24:
In Reply to: [8]SIR trains posted by Edward on February 08, 1998 at
18:11:53:
It may be true that SIR is underutilized. And now with MetroPass, SIR
is virtually free. You don't get charged any additional fare, even if
you use a bus to the SIR on Staten Island & switch to a bus or subway
once you get to Manhattan. And SIR is completely free--no MetroCard
needed--at all stations other than St. George.
But SIR is part of NYC's pact with the residents of Staten Island to
keep paying NYC property, sales & income taxes. If the other boroughs
get 24 hour subway & bus service, so should Staten Island. So at 4am
when a ferry pulls into St. George on a Sunday morning, the handful of
riders have an idling SIR train or 8 different buses ready to pull out
on their round-the-clock lines to all corners of Staten Island, even
though a similar county in nearby New Jersey would have no mass
transit service of any kind at this hour.
Here's a trivia question...there are only 2 mass transit rail lines
serving all stations 24 hours a day in the world. What are they? Yes,
SIR & PATH. NYC Subways come close but 148 & 145 St. are closed
overnight on the #3 line, and Broad St. is closed weekends on the J
line. (Should I also count Aquaduct on the A line when the racetrack
is closed?) And Chicago has about 2/3rds of its stations served 24
hours a day.
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NEXT>9870
PREVIOUS>9577
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:25 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 16:43:41:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 24hr Service posted by Peter Rosa on February 09,
1998 at 10:00:28:
Now that you mention it, I wondered why J trains don't at least
terminate at Broadway/Nassau to make it easier for J riders to connect
with several other lines without extra token booth personal since this
is a 24 hour station for the A, N, 2 & 4 lines. But I guess extending
the J one more stop means staffing another tower, so everyone must
exit at Chambers St. weekends.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9869
POSTER>Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 24hr Service
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:29 1998
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Posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998 at 16:49:49:
In Reply to: [8]24hr Service posted by Adam on February 08, 1998 at
15:19:13:
The only two mass transit rail lines in the world where all stations
are served at all times are SIR on Staten Island & PATH between NY &
NJ. NYC comes close, except for 148 St. & 145 St. on #3 & Broad St. on
the J line. (Should we count Aquaduct on the A line when the racetrack
is closed?) Chicago has between half & two-thirds of its stations
served around the clock. But no other subway system runs all night
anyplace on earth.
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NEXT>9884
PREVIOUS>9863
POSTER>Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Westchester Ctr Private Carriers===Buses
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:35 1998
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Posted by Michael Lyons on February 14, 1998 at 17:33:02:
In Reply to: [8]Westchester Ctr Private Carriers===Buses posted by
Chicopee3 on February 14, 1998 at 13:24:50:
A few years ago I used to travel a bit in Westchester County. Not all
of the County routes are operated by Liberty Lines, though most are. I
think this is the info you are looking for???
Any way, off the top of my head I remember seeing the following
operators on the side of Bee Line Buses:
Hartsdale Bus Co.
Bronxville Bus Co.
White Plains Bus (or coach)Co.
Scarsdale Bus Co.
In the mean time, let me know if this is the direction you are looking
in and I will see what I can dig up.
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NEXT>9920
PREVIOUS>9860
POSTER>Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:38 1998
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Posted by Todd Glickman on February 14, 1998 at 17:44:16:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Reggie on February
14, 1998 at 13:05:57:
You're right about the Q-33, however it is Triboro Coach, not Queens
Surface that runs that line.
When I bring guests from out of town along the route, I ask them what
the neighborhood reminds them of. Those old enough usually reply,
"Archie Bunker's neighborhood!"
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NEXT>9874
PREVIOUS>9866
POSTER>Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:42 1998
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Posted by Peter Rosa on February 14, 1998 at 18:43:34:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Steve on February
14, 1998 at 13:06:34:
The R numbers are used for a variety of contracts, not merely those
for new rolling stock. That's why there are many gaps in the R numbers
assigned to cars (e.g. no R-50s).
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NEXT>9878
PREVIOUS>9873
POSTER>Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:45 1998
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Posted by Timothy Speer on February 14, 1998 at 18:52:27:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Steve on February
14, 1998 at 13:06:34:
I've heard of R-32's referred to as "Brightliners," but what's a
"Brightonliner?"
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9842
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:47 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:21:34:
In Reply to: [8]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
Rosa on February 13, 1998 at 21:48:43:
To answer an unasked question: Atlantic Ave IRT is the same way and
for the same reason- to discourage local express transfer-in this case
Nevins is the next stop.
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NEXT>9877
PREVIOUS>10104
POSTER>Subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:49 1998
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Posted by Subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:28:24:
A transit employee saw that I was taking notes and I volunteered I was
doing research on this line(Brooklyn 2/3). He volunteered two bits of
info;
1- the token iron maidens will remain due to the straphangers campaign
complaining of discrimination.That menas that all iron maiden stations
will have two- the old token version and the new metrocard version.
2- The big news: He told me that behind a door on the S Bound Platform
is a room which leads to "another station". I do not know if it is IRT
or BMT. The door was locked and no peephole. I am guessing that it
might the the rumored library station previously discussed on this
board. I do not know how many tracks or platform arrangement. Anyone
have more info on this?
He was a legit employee( not a cleaner) because he had a key to the
iron maide at Bergen Street
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NEXT>9880
PREVIOUS>9876
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:56 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 14, 1998 at 20:42:11:
In Reply to: [7]Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ? posted
by Subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:28:24:
Maybe that referred to the west mezzanine (where the precinct was),
which was designed for connection to the nearby BMT Botanic Gardens
station. This connection will open as part of the Franklin Av. Shuttle
rehabilitation.
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NEXT>9885
PREVIOUS>9874
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:26:59 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by Eric B on February 14, 1998 at 20:59:32:
In Reply to: [7]Re: The name of car type posted by Dan Schwartz on
February 14, 1998 at 15:26:57:
An interesting note: from R-32 to R-42, the 1st 2 digits of the car
number nearly matched the R number. The R-32's started at 3350, the
R-38's at 3950, the 40's at 4150, and the 42's at 4550. I always
wondered why they didn't fix it to match.
I also used to identify cars by their features (to me, anything with
incandescent lights/straw seats was "old", R-44/46 was "new", etc.
Then, I gradually learned all the numbers, beginning with the R-46's,
which were constantly in the news in the early 80's for their
problems. Then, on my first trip to the transit museum, I discovered
the numbers of the cars they had there. Then, eventually, throught
speaking to people I knew in the system, getting "They Moved the
Millions" and "Under the sidewalks of NY" for Christmas, and finally
joining the ERA, I learned the rest of the numbers, including the
skipped over ones (mostly work equipment, and a couple of cancelled
contracts (such as R-39: Myrtle&3rd Av. el cars)), which they
published in the Bulletin
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NEXT>9916
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Strange Signal on IRT
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:02 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 21:08:57:
I saw a strange signal and wonder what it means:
The top light is red, yellow or green. Underneath is two off white
lights side by side followed by a covered over signal head beneath.
What does this mean? The two lights were lit when the main signal was
any color.
Also on PATH I saw yellow over red and red over yellow- what doe they
mean?
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NEXT>9895
PREVIOUS>9877
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:05 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 21:10:50:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
posted by Eric B on February 14, 1998 at 20:42:11:
I dont think so. The connection will be at Franklin IRT. A look at the
map book did not help either. Thanks.(ps- I saw no signs of
construction in the Franklin IRT Mezzanine or Eastern Parkway
Mezzanine.)
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9809
POSTER>Eric B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: ...And Another Question on the R-142s
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:10 1998
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Posted by Eric B on February 14, 1998 at 21:34:26:
In Reply to: [7]Re: ...And Another Question on the R-142s posted by
Hank Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:08:27:
I thought it was going to be the 2 & 5. Especially since the shops on
those lines were upgraded to handle the new equipment.
Why should the same lines that got the new stuff on the last order
keep getting the newest stuff?
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NEXT>9888
PREVIOUS>9851
POSTER>a subway fan from Brooklyn
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:18 1998
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Posted by a subway fan from Brooklyn on February 14, 1998 at 22:13:14:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Steve on
February 14, 1998 at 01:13:41:
If the R-68s will be removed from the D line in 1999,which line do you
think these R-68s will be assigned to? What is the reason for this
equipment change?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Path Signals
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:22 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:03:44:
In Reply to: [8]Strange Signal on IRT posted by subway-buff on
February 14, 1998 at 21:08:57:
The 2 signals you saw on PATH are diverging route signals. Yellow over
red is called "Right Approach". It means proceed on Rt. hand route
prepared to stop at the next signal. Red over Yellow is called "Left
Approach". It means proceed on Left-hand route prepared to stop at the
next signal.
The signal you say on the IRT sounds like a train-order signal. They
are rarely used now with radios are so prevalent.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9871
POSTER>chicopee3
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Westchester Ctr Private Carriers===Buses
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:25 1998
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Posted by chicopee3 on February 15, 1998 at 00:05:30:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Westchester Ctr Private Carriers===Buses posted by
Michael Lyons on February 14, 1998 at 17:33:02:
Thank you for your response
What I will be doing,,is converting each line into a diagram ,,showing
each Terminal Loop,,Short turn,etc
Company Name,,,Address/tele Number,,Route Numbers
I have completed info for Liberty Lines/Bee Lines
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NEXT>9886
PREVIOUS>9878
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:28 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:06:38:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Eric B on February
14, 1998 at 20:59:32:
R-32s no longer begin with 3350. There is an R-32 wearing the number,
3348.
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NEXT>9887
PREVIOUS>9885
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:34 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:09:42:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Peter Rosa on
February 14, 1998 at 18:43:34:
R numbers don't always denote rolling stock. They are contract #s that
can indicate a major component such as a truck (wheel set) or a
non-revenue car such as R-103 which is a side dump car.
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NEXT>9894
PREVIOUS>9886
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:39 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:10:40:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Timothy Speer on
February 14, 1998 at 18:52:27:
OOOOPS - That was a slip on my part.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9882
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:43 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:15:22:
In Reply to: [8]Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by a subway fan
from Brooklyn on February 14, 1998 at 22:13:14:
In 1999, all 425 R-68s will go through their 12 year SMS heavy
maintneance. Aside from new trucks, AC and door tracks, the cars will
be linked into 4-car units. At that time they will be re-assigned to
Coney Island because Concourse Shop is too small to accommodate 4-car
units efficiently. Coney Island will have only R-68s and R-68As.
Therefore the R-68s will run on the B, N or Q lines.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R-62A 5-car links
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:46 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:18:09:
Currently, the TA plans to link the R-62As running on the 1/9 lines
into 5-car linked units similar to the units on the #4 line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9824
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:51 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 00:24:47:
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 13, 1998 at 01:14:18:
The Lower Level of the verrazzano bridge was conceived and sold with
the promise that it would carry subway service. After Robert (the
master builder) Moses got the approval to build the lower deck, he
killed the subway plan.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9828
POSTER>Al
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct & SMith/9th Street Viaduct
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:55 1998
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Posted by Al on February 15, 1998 at 00:27:45:
In Reply to: [7]Re: #7 line viaduct & SMith/9th Street Viaduct posted
by Philip Nasadowski on February 13, 1998 at 13:41:18:
Phil you are correct, a few years back the Flushing viaduct was redone
and the "gravel" was replaced with the concrete. During the rehab one
was able to see the top of the arches while waiting for the #7 train.
I didn't notice any steelwork that was visible, unless it was making
up the curvature of the arches.
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NEXT>9919
PREVIOUS>9823
POSTER>Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Feb 19 21:27:59 1998
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Posted by Albert on February 15, 1998 at 00:34:18:
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 13, 1998 at 09:42:41:
The subway line shown at the opening of "NYPD Blue" is #7 line,
approximate location between 33rd and 40th Street Stations, I believe.
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NEXT>9915
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Timothy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Ornamental Iron Railings On Chicago "L" Stations
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:08 1998
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Posted by Timothy on February 15, 1998 at 00:51:05:
When I was in Chicago last September, I noticed old ornamental iron
railings along the State/Lake Street "L" Station platform. However,
The
stairways at State/Lake don't feature the fancy ironwork. I was just
watching a TV show on PBS about health and fitness, and it showed some
scenes in Chicago. One scene showed one of the "L" stations, as people
were walking down the stairs to the street. I noticed that the stairs
had
the same ornamental ironwork in the railings, that the State/Lake
station
has on the platform. Can anyone tell me what station that was? When I
was
in Chicago, I didn't see any fancy ironwork on any of the stairs
leading
up to the "L" stations in The Loop. Could it be that I may have missed
one of the stations? Whenever I photograph el stations and structures,
one of the first things I look for is (old) ornamental ironwork in
railings
on platforms and stairways.
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NEXT>9905
PREVIOUS>9887
POSTER>Larry Littlefield
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:12 1998
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Posted by Larry Littlefield on February 15, 1998 at 08:17:19:
In Reply to: [7]Re: The name of car type posted by Steve on February
15, 1998 at 00:06:38:
I believe the R numbers refer to the number identifying the contract
under which they were purchased. The roster of R (for rolling stock)
contracts I received as a TA employee also includes R41 (6 diesel
locomotives), R50 (2 supply cars, R59 (the track geometry car), etc.
The most recent contract in the book I have is R95, 22 revenue
collection/locker cars, along with nine contracts which did not yet
have numbers. The contracts for the R68 include R68, 225 cars, R68-1,
200 cars (option one on contract R68), and R68 A, 200 cars.
Hard to believe only one in five cars on the IND/BMT is less than 25
years old, with no new purchases on the horizon. Many of you older
gentlemen seem to remember the standards and R1s. At this point,
however, most of the IND/BMT rollling stock can fairly be called the
old cars.
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NEXT>9896
PREVIOUS>9880
POSTER>Bill from S.I.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:14 1998
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Posted by Bill from S.I. on February 15, 1998 at 08:35:08:
In Reply to: [7]Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ? posted
by Subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:28:24:
I know what door it is. It is an emergancy exit door that leads
downstairs to the express tracks, there is one on the other platform
just oppsite that one.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9895
POSTER>Bill from S.I.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:17 1998
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Posted by Bill from S.I. on February 15, 1998 at 08:54:11:
In Reply to: [7]Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ? posted
by Subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:28:24:
That is an emergency exit for the express tracks downstairs. There is
a door just oppsite that one on the northbound platform, same thing
emergency exit.
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NEXT>9918
PREVIOUS>10080
POSTER>B.G.Schlueter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The Third Avenue El
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:19 1998
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Posted by B.G.Schlueter on February 15, 1998 at 09:38:15:
Bring back the Third Ave El. For the nickel, it was the greatest ride
in New York. I rode it for 15 years, starting with High School on 15th
Street. It was a great run on the express from 23rd to 125th, but I
guess it was even better hanging out the open window on the local
along Third Ave. In the nineties you would get the grand smell
(overpowering sometimes) of the hops from the Ruppert Brewery. Then
there was the High ride on the express tracks from 125th, across the
river to the Bronx and 149th street. The express run through the Bronx
too 177th, and then to God's country above Fordham Road. They don't
have tranportation like that anymore. It was great standing on the
open ends of the cars and just taking in the breeze. And it wasn't
very poluted then. Bring back the Third Ave El.....
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10044
POSTER>J Hayes
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Kisseena Golf Course
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:29 1998
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Posted by J Hayes on February 15, 1998 at 10:29:09:
I was recently told that the hills of the Kiseena Golf Course are due
to the building of the IND line in Queens. The earth excavated from
the tunnels was dumped at the site of the planned golf course and they
used it to create the many hills . Can anyone let me know if this is
true or not?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9841
POSTER>Mark Greenwald
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Are NYC Subway car being use elsewhere?
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:34 1998
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Posted by Mark Greenwald on February 15, 1998 at 11:09:57:
In Reply to: [8]Are NYC Subway car being use elsewhere? posted by
Serafin Jr on February 13, 1998 at 20:43:38:
I don't know about old NYC subway cars. but, I do know about old LIRR
cars...The Western Maryland Scenic Railroad based in Cumberland, MD
bought 7 old LIRR cars, 5 of which are just sitting, rotting in their
yard in Ridgley, West Virginia (right across the Potomac from
Cumberland). The other 2 have been rehabbed into a part of the
Washington Redskins excurssion train which makes scenic runs in the
area due to the Redskins training camp held in nearby Frostburg,
Maryland. I took pics of the other 5 cars, I just haven't had a chance
to get them to Dave to be scanned & posted---It'll happen.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going to after West Side depot
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:40 1998
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I would like to know from anyone who know what bus routes in Manhattan
& the Bronx are going to after West Side depot opens March 1st, please
post all information.
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NEXT>9902
PREVIOUS>9855
POSTER>Sammy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kiss George's Rear
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:47 1998
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Posted by Sammy on February 15, 1998 at 13:40:31:
In Reply to: [8]Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 14, 1998 at 09:00:08:
Maybe this is why I'm a Pirates' fan. As far as King George goes, I
think he should kiss the City's ass. Yankee Stadium has been and is
accessable. No one (other than George) has ever complained about
getting to the stadium. If the city should want to do anything, it
could do the following:
1) Revive a plan to build a Metro North station (like the LIRR has a
Shea Stadium)
2) Increase ferry service and cut the costs (yes I know its a private
carrier).
Yankee Stadium is fine. Let's leave it be.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9901
POSTER>Andrew Huie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kiss George's Rear
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:52 1998
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Posted by Andrew Huie on February 15, 1998 at 15:01:59:
In Reply to: [8]Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 14, 1998 at 09:00:08:
Actually, that's a pretty good idea commuter-wise. I'm not familiar
with automobile traffic patterns there, but it sounds like a way to
increase the number of riders on those lines, since the D and the 4
tend to be redundant in the Bronx. As for using it as park-and-ride
for games, that depends if people will be willing to take the extra
step of switching to the train.
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NEXT>9906
PREVIOUS>9854
POSTER>Andrew Huie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:56 1998
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Posted by Andrew Huie on February 15, 1998 at 15:16:49:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Wado Taniguchi on February 14, 1998 at 02:31:57:
Pretty funny that the train is still called the C even though it
doesn't go to Grand Concourse anymore. Also since it will completely
parallel the A would that reduce it's usefulness even further? How
many people will take a much slower copy of the A?
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NEXT>9912
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>GarfieldA
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Read This Scenario !!!......
DATE>Feb 19 21:28:58 1998
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Posted by GarfieldA on February 15, 1998 at 16:02:24:
When a motorman is operating a train and pulling into a station, he
MUST stop at the square box sign number whether it be 4,6,8,10. As for
the conductor, he MUST point to a rectangular checkered color strip
that hangs along side the platform after the train as stopped. These
strips have the same numbers as mentioned before. The numbers
correspond to the number of cars the train is composed of. Let's say
the motorman is operating a 10 car train but passes the "10-Car" sign
at a distance of 10 or more yards. What is the conductor suppose to do
if this happens. I'm writing this since this happened to me about 5
years ago on a Manhattan bound "J". Two and maybe half of the the
second to last car WERE NOT in the station when the doors opened. When
I looked out, all I saw was Fulton St. below. Any answers please.
-Garfield
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9894
POSTER>Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:06 1998
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 15, 1998 at 16:14:25:
In Reply to: [8]Re: The name of car type posted by Steve on February
15, 1998 at 00:09:42:
The 'theme' of the R contracts is that they are all for either subway
cars, or subway car major componants, like trucks. It also includes
work cars, locomotives and the like...
-Hank
-
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NEXT>9907
PREVIOUS>9903
POSTER>Walter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:12 1998
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Posted by Walter on February 15, 1998 at 16:18:01:
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Wado Taniguchi on February 14, 1998 at 02:31:57:
There are still two subway routes that cross borough lines three times
(even though they go to only three of the four subway boroughs): the L
and the M (during rush hours). True, not as good as the C going to all
four, but it's still something.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9906
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:22 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Posted by subway-buff on February 15, 1998 at 16:18:33:
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Andrew Huie on February 15, 1998 at 15:16:49:
True, it will parallel the A. However the IND has more local stops
between Express stations than does the IRT/BMT. For instance, after
59th the next express stop is 125. If only for Central Park West
Service and Fulton Street Brooklyn it remains a vital train-if only to
go to the next express stop to get the A. Also, there are
people-myself included who prefer an emptier local to the fuller
express and some people have to exit at a local stop.
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NEXT>9917
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Jeff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>What's Up with the R142s?
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:25 1998
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Posted by Jeff on February 15, 1998 at 17:45:34:
What's the deal with the new trains the MTA bought? Will they be
delivered before 2000? Someone said that the redbirds won't be
replaced by the R142s but the R62's (the best piece fleet out
there)will replace the reds on the 2,5,7 lines and the 142s will run
on the 1,3,4,6 lines. Is this true? And why?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10042
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going to after West Side
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:31 1998
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In Reply to: [7]What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going to
after West Side depot opens March 1st. posted by Michael on February
15, 1998 at 12:29:45:
What does the depot sticker look like too?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10101
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:38 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 15, 1998 at 17:54:43:
I am now doing these lines and would appreciate photos/trivia;
A- 207 to Lefferts
Bronx D (Concourse)
G Train (Smith/9th to Queens Plaza
E Queens Blvd (including Archer Spur from 50th/8th ave to 179 and
Jamaica)
BMT N/R Manhattan trunk line- Lawrence to 5th Ave
You will be given credit for pictures
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NEXT>9913
PREVIOUS>10089
POSTER>Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>N train service disruption!
DATE>Feb 19 21:29:49 1998
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Posted by Adam on February 15, 1998 at 18:10:33:
I just returned home after a trip to Manhattan on the N, but I wasn't
able to take the N all the way because from Feb 14 to Feb 17 at 5:00
AM, there is no N service between Queesboro Plaza and 42nd
Street/Times Square. Also, there is no R service between Queens Plaza
and 42nd Street/Times Square. Does anybody know why this is the case?
I was not aware of any work needed on the N line, at least. I can
understand the R train being disrupted because of the 63rd Street
construction.
There is a S shuttle train running between Ditmars and QbP and in
place of the N train between QbP and 42nd, you need to take the 7 from
QbP to Times Square. To replace the R train, all of the F and E trains
from 34th and 42nd Streets, respectively, are running local in Queens.
I'm wondering if there is no N service to/from 57th Street, how are
people going to access the S train that goes to Queensbridge, or is
that not running as well? Or is it just running to 57th Street?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9904
POSTER>Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!......
DATE>Feb 19 21:30:16 1998
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Posted by Michael Lyons on February 15, 1998 at 18:39:15:
In Reply to: [8]Read This Scenario !!!...... posted by GarfieldA on
February 15, 1998 at 16:02:24:
It sounds to me like the last 2 cars were out of the station. This
story is sad, because this is the eaiser of the possible scenarios, as
it relates to trains being properly berthed in the station. As far as
the situaton you obsereved, I don't know what the problem was with
that crew, they must have both been half asleep. If the Train Operator
knows he is going to stop short of the proper car marker, he will
alert the Conductor with one long buzzer signal. If the Trian Operator
unwittingly stops short of the proper car marker, the Conductor will
not see an indication board, or will see one indicating a different
number of cars then the number of cars he is operating. In this
situation the Conductor will remind the Train Operator of the number
of cars in their train, the Conductor will then signal the Train
Operator with 2 long buzzers when it is safe for him to proceed to the
proper car marker.
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NEXT>9914
PREVIOUS>9911
POSTER>subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N train service disruption!
DATE>Feb 19 21:30:35 1998
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Posted by subway-buff on February 15, 1998 at 19:35:54:
In Reply to: [8]N train service disruption! posted by Adam on February
15, 1998 at 18:10:33:
The work is in the tunnel from Brooklyn to Manhattan. You can change
at 34th for another N on the B line. The S to Queens runs on different
tracks so there is no problem. After 57th street the express tracks go
to Queensbridge and the local trakcs are the N/R 60th street line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9913
POSTER>David L.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N train service disruption!
DATE>Feb 19 21:30:55 1998
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Posted by David L. on February 15, 1998 at 19:38:04:
In Reply to: [7]N train service disruption! posted by Adam on February
15, 1998 at 18:10:33:
The shuttle service that runs between 21 Street Queensbridge and 57th
Street/7th Avenue doesn't begin until February 22. B service to
Queensbridge is still running this weekend.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9893
POSTER>Alan Follett
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Ornamental Iron Railings On Chicago "L" Stations
DATE>Feb 19 21:31:08 1998
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Posted by Alan Follett on February 15, 1998 at 20:18:04:
In Reply to: [8]Ornamental Iron Railings On Chicago "L" Stations
posted by Timothy on February 15, 1998 at 00:51:05:
I'm not positive--I only get back to the Old Country about once a year
these days--but the Loop "L" station most likely to have elaborate
ironwork on the street stairs would be Quincy and Wells, which was
given a pretty extensive restoration to its 1890's appearance a few
years ago. Possibly someone in Chicago can confirm or refute!
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PREVIOUS>9879
POSTER>derlangis
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Strange Signal on IRT
DATE>Feb 19 21:31:13 1998
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Posted by derlangis on February 15, 1998 at 20:52:18:
In Reply to: [7]Strange Signal on IRT posted by subway-buff on
February 14, 1998 at 21:08:57:
the signal i believe you are talking about is called a train order
signal.
when the two white lights are lite it is ok for the train to proceed
by the above aspect [red,yellow,green}. however if thoes two white are
dark there is usually two reds lights lit. this conveys to the train
operator that he must call comm. center for instructions. they are
mostly located at the entrance to bridges and under river tunnels
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9908
POSTER>Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What's Up with the R142s?
DATE>Feb 19 21:31:24 1998
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Posted by Steve on February 15, 1998 at 21:51:03:
In Reply to: [8]What's Up with the R142s? posted by Jeff on February
15, 1998 at 17:45:34:
Whoa !! Slow down. There are ONLY 323 R-62s (325 before 14th St.).
That's not enough cars to make up the #7 line, let alone the #2 and #5
lines. Also, the #7 line calls for 11-car consists which can not be
made up from 5-car links.
As for delivery of the 142s, I would imagine thatthe first 142s will
begin showing up in mid to late 1999. The R-142As won't be seen until
2000. The R-143s - is anyone's guess since the contract has not yet
been awarded.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9897
POSTER>Dan Lawrence
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Third Avenue El
DATE>Feb 19 21:31:31 1998
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on February 15, 1998 at 22:20:52:
In Reply to: [7]The Third Avenue El posted by B.G.Schlueter on
February 15, 1998 at 09:38:15:
Along with the 3Av El, can we also bring back the Myrtle, the Third
Avenue Railway, The New York Railways, the BRT, the Steinway Lines,
Public Service's system, Philadelphia Rapid Transit, The United
Railways & Electric Co. (Baltimore), Capital Traction and The
Washington Railway & Electric Co, and a plethora of others. Failing
that, can someone invent a time machine so we can all visit these
wonders of the past.
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PREVIOUS>9892
POSTER>David J. Greenberger
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Feb 19 21:31:37 1998
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Posted by David J. Greenberger on February 15, 1998 at 23:34:47:
In Reply to: [8]Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 12, 1998 at 00:34:30:
The 2 from 96th Street to Wall Street.
I don't know if it is actually any faster than elsewhere, but the
express run seems particularly fast. It's especially exciting passing
through 59th Street.
At Chambers it dips below the local tracks and the twisty section
begins.
Why the 2 and not the 3? Simple: redbirds.
Runner up is the J/M/Z from Chambers to Essex, simply because of all
the trackage around there that once saw heavy usage and now sits
untouched. I'm still not terribly familiar with the line, so when I do
have the opportunity to ride it, I ride up front (naturally) and guess
which switches the train is going to take.
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NEXT>9922
PREVIOUS>9872
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE> ::
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References: <6cip2u$f7$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
Reply-To: jamesrr@psu.edu
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I remember riding the #7 in Queens on the el for the first time when I
was about 8. I rode in the front car and boy was that some el ride!
Felt like I was on a roller coaster! It was around Shea Stadium, don't
remember where I got on, but I rode all the way to TS in Manhattan. I
haven't been on that el in years, but I've been meaning to for a while.
What's wild in Queens is how one el crosses another - it's quite a
system. As big as the world of subways are in NY, there is a whole
other world of els.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9806
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line / plus monthly LIRR rant...
DATE> ::
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References: <6cip34$fh$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
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Don't know why EMD over GE, but there were quite a few weight problems
with LIRR's bridges. Maybe that's why they went with the smaller
profile EMD's. They're nice locos, though. Should be in this year.
Very European looking. To think those old GP's and Alco power houses
will be on their way to yard duty (probably m.u. duty in the next
blizzard!)
NEXT>9923
PREVIOUS>9920
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE> ::
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Don't think the #2 goes to WTC - ?? I think the 1 and 9 go to WTC, the
2 and 3 split off to Queens, while the 1 and 9 terminate at South Ferry.
"City Hall - the lost jewel of the subway system, dormant and
waiting..."
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9922
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE> ::
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I'd take the 1 or 9 from Midtown to WTC, shorter walk than the A, C, E
train.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Subway Automation
DATE> ::
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The 42 St shuttle was supposed to be automated, but that never
happened. It may happen again someday, but for now, it's human all the
way.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9819
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Subway history
DATE> ::
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Well, that depends on how complex. In the late 1800's, the Beech
Pneumatic subway began running down a few blocks of Broadway (NYC), more
of a ride than a practical subway system. I think France had one of the
first systems, in which the IRT builders looked to for ideas. But NY
has the largest system in the world, as far as total track miles.
NEXT>9995
PREVIOUS>10248
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:07 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
In Reply to: [8]Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
& Express runs) posted by Peter Rosa on February 19, 1998 at 14:56:00:
Kind of like the Yawkey and Foxborough stations on the MBTA commuter
lines, no?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10242
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:09 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by
Dan Schwartz on February 19, 1998 at 14:05:13:
Have you seen the Bowery station lately... It really needs to be fixed
up (I like the job they did at Canal)...
Question: If they decide to close the Manhattan Bridge temporaily (and
a good chance, permanently), then use Grand Street as a hook up to a
train line that could be developed under Water St. Start the line at
Water and Wall, run it north, attach it to the Grand Street station
and voila! The Grand St. station could be only for one train line (say
the Q), and you could operate the line from 71-Continental Avs to
Wall-Water Sts.
Service to Brooklyn you ask? Well, have the B,D,F run through the
Rutgers St. tunnel... It is very underused... Then, before the York
St. station, have a tunnel that would connect the B,D to the ramp that
comes off the bridge... Since York St. is below the B,D tracks, you
could bring it up and attach it... If you can't use the North tracks
(B,D), use the South tracks where the Broadway express use to run...
Then, you could have through service from Manhattan to Brooklyn...
What about Brighton Express? No problem! Re-route the M train!
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NEXT>9929
PREVIOUS>10216
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:10 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 19, 1998 at 09:31:04:
I find it curious that they don't put that on the el( the wood plank).
Those are two things that I hope SEPTA fixes soon. The other is the
situation with some of the switches. The ones at 30th Street and
especially at 15th Street are really nerve-jangling. Isn't that what
caused the derailment back in '89 or '90?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9928
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 19, 1998 at 09:31:04:
I find it curious that they don't put that on the el( the wood plank).
Those are two things that I hope SEPTA fixes soon. The other is the
situation with some of the switches. The ones at 30th Street and
especially at 15th Street are really nerve-jangling. Isn't that what
caused the derailment back in '89 or '90?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10192
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer + LaGuardia Airport posted by Carl M.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer + LaGuardia Airport
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:13 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer + LaGuardia Airport posted by Carl M.
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer + LaGuardia Airport posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 09:57:59:
Airport service may be the main purpose of the M60, but it certainly
isn't the SOLE purpose. I have used it several times (since Metrocard
free transfers started) to go from my house in the Bronx to my
brother's in Astoria. I take the #5 train to 125 St./Lex, then the M60
across the Triboro to "Columbus Plaza" (31 St.) It saves a few minutes
over staying on the #5 to 59th St. and changing for the N. Even more
on weekends when the N to Queens isn't running.
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PREVIOUS>10223
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail ALIVE posted by Lou from Brooklyn on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail ALIVE
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:15 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail ALIVE posted by Lou from Brooklyn on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail ALIVE posted by Lou from Brooklyn on
February 19, 1998 at 10:34:18:
Maybe it's just to alert people as to the fact that they should watch
out and be a little more careful than usual.
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NEXT>9933
PREVIOUS>10219
POSTER>In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F Line Plan
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:16 1998
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In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
10:04:04:
You mean . . . take . . . express . . . the . . . WHAT?!?
Wait a minute, wait a minute . . . never mind.
For some reason, I just ain't diggin' your logic here.
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NEXT>9934
PREVIOUS>9932
POSTER>In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F Line Plan
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:18 1998
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In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
10:04:04:
i couldn't agree more.
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PREVIOUS>9933
POSTER>In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F Line Plan
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:20 1998
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In Reply to: F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F Line Plan posted by Chris C. on February 19, 1998 at
10:04:04:
I couldn't agree more.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10252
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:21 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
In Reply to: [7]Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
on February 18, 1998 at 17:28:49:
Thanks, Darren. It's good to know that some people are still
interested in the idea of punishing a child when they've done wrong. I
was offended but it was nothing unforgivable. Let's let bygones be
bygones.
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways..and cattle?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert on February 19,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert on February 19,
1998 at 01:38:14:
Nice analogy, Albert. But cattle? That's kinda funny.
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NEXT>9938
PREVIOUS>10232
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:23 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B on February 19,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B on February 19,
1998 at 12:17:06:
cool.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9937
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:25 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B on February 19,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Newark Subway posted by Steve B on February 19,
1998 at 12:17:06:
I read somewhere that the Newark Subway actually turns a profit! Can
anyone confirm this?
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NEXT>9944
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>I just moved to Buffalo, NY and when riding the light rail line got
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:26 1998
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I just moved to Buffalo, NY and when riding the light rail line got
I just moved to Buffalo, NY and when riding the light rail line got
into subways for some strange reason. My first question as a subway
hobbyist is what other cities have light rail lines that run
underground as part of thier route beside Buffalo and as I understand
it Newark, NJ? I heard that New York has trolleys. Did I hear wrong?
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NEXT>9974
PREVIOUS>10251
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Gary Jacobi on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:27 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Gary Jacobi on
In Reply to: [8]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Gary Jacobi on
February 19, 1998 at 15:01:36:
The El in King Kong was the 6th Ave. El.
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PREVIOUS>10229
POSTER>In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Boston & Express runs
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:29 1998
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In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
In Reply to: [8]Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
Sachs on February 17, 1998 at 10:35:57:
Although there are no real express subway trains in Boston, a few
commuter rail trains run right along side of subway routes. I find
that I can schedule it so that I can take a Needham train from Forest
hills and be at Back Bay in eight minutes, compared with about 13
minutes for the Orange line. The Needham commuter train makes only one
stop (Ruggles St.) between Forest Hills and Back Bay, compared with
six for the Orange Line. The price is the same for both services if
you have a subway pass, though the commuter rail does cost more if you
are paying cash.
People do it from Braintree and Quincy Center, too on the
Kingston/Plymouth and Middleborough trains, respectively.
It's not real express service, but I wonder how many other cities have
the same setup, whereby quasi "express" service is achieved by running
a railroad right next to a subway. Anyone have any ideas?
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Chicago
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:30 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
1998 at 22:28:39:
"I believe that Chicago's El and subway is still exposed 3rd rail."
And how! The third rail is (almost) always opposite the platform, not
right alongside it. But it is totally exposed.
The time this gets interesting is when they are doing track work,
especially on the 24-hour lines, when track work is performed around
the train schedule on Saturdays and Sundays. Only for the most extreme
work will they shut down the line. It is a very common sight when I go
downtown on the Blue Line on weekends to see several track workers
walking gingerly on the tracks, standing on the outbound track to let
the inbound train pass, since there is no place to stand off the
tracks on the old L structure, where most of the work is done. You
wouldn't expect track workers to be able to do anything gingerly, but
when you have an energized and exposed third rail, and a train in each
direction about every ten minutes (and the trains always seem to meet
where the work is being done), gingerly is the only way!
The sometimes-controversy here is the existence of surface running
third-rail lines. Yes, the CTA has two stretches of third-rail
trackage running at grade, the northernmost end of the Purple Line and
the northern portion of the Brown Line. Both are fenced in, of course.
But the controversy comes in because the two Purple Lines crossings in
wealthy Wilmette have automatic gates to keep people from entering on
the tracks (they are closed until a train comes, then open until it
passes) while the much more numerous Brown Line crossings in immigrant
Ravenswood do not. (The Yellow Line through Skokie is also grade level
without automatic anti-trespass gates, but it runs on overhead wire.)
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NEXT>9978
PREVIOUS>10243
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:31 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Peter Rosa on February 18, 1998 at 12:24:19:
Not so simple! Each station differs in where it's exit is, so when
short trains are operating, their placement along the platform must be
unique to minimize walking, or running if boarding is involved.
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NEXT>9945
PREVIOUS>9939
POSTER>In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:32 1998
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In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
In Reply to: [8]Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
Velasquez on February 19, 1998 at 15:36:00:
I believe Boston's Green Line qualifies.
New York City does not have any more trolleys.
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NEXT>9946
PREVIOUS>9944
POSTER>In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:34 1998
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In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
In Reply to: [8]Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
Velasquez on February 19, 1998 at 15:36:00:
Philadelphia has the subway-surface (Green) lines, which the subway
portion shares the same tunnel with the Market-Frankford
Subway/Elevated
(Blue) Line, between 30th St., and City Hall, and uses light rail
vehicles.
The lines run as streetcar routes in West and Southwest Philadelphia.
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NEXT>9953
PREVIOUS>9945
POSTER>In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:35 1998
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In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
In Reply to: [8]Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
Velasquez on February 19, 1998 at 15:36:00:
Philadelphia's SEPTA has its Subway-Surface Lines (Routes 10,11,13,34
& 36) which use Kawasaki LRVs on surface streets (& limited private
ROW on Route 36) & a downtown subway. Newark, NJ uses PCC cars in the
Newark City Subway. Pittsburgh's "T" light rail iines (Routes 42L,
42S, 47D, 52) use Siemens-Duewag LRV cars on extensive private ROW & a
downtown subway.
Although I haven't visited Cleveland's RTA, I believe its Green
(Shaker Heights) Lines also use a subway tunnel at least in downtown
Cleveland.
Hope this helps!
Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA
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PREVIOUS>10226
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:36 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Adam
In Reply to: [7]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Adam
on February 18, 1998 at 18:57:01:
I have heard that the Port Authority the owners of JFK have approved a
light rail system for JFK Airport. The trains whould connect with the
Howard Beach (A) stop, and with the Jamacia LIRR station, plus at all
terminals and I think long term parking. Plus I belive that there
whill be a stop at Federal Triagnle (I think that what it call) which
I belive is mostly going to be used by JFK workers.
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NEXT>9962
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Jack on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia (& Switches On The El)
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:37 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Jack on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia posted by Jack on
February 19, 1998 at 15:15:22:
Yes, a crossover (switch) near 30th St. Station was an indirect cause
of the Market-Franford Line derailment & crash in March, 1990. A
dangling traction motor on an Budd car caught on the crossover &
derailed the train, smashing it into a support pillar.
(We had a lengthy thread on this wreck last month-See the archives)
Even before that wreck, & still to this day, I think that crossover is
one of the roughest anywhere.
Michael S. Buglak, Collegeville, PA
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PREVIOUS>10250
POSTER>In Reply to: Saturday Night Fever posted by Simon Billis on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Saturday Night Fever
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:39 1998
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In Reply to: Saturday Night Fever posted by Simon Billis on
In Reply to: [8]Saturday Night Fever posted by Simon Billis on
February 19, 1998 at 14:59:53:
It's the West End Line as it runs above 86th St. If I remember right,
the cars are R-38s. There's another sequence near the end where John
Travolta boards an RR, and proceeds to light a cigarette as he mulls
over what has happened.
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Transit Conections to Airports
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:40 1998
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In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
In Reply to: [7]JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
February 17, 1998 at 00:21:27:
In London, there is bus service called the Airbus with two different
routes, to/form Heathrow Airport. These buses stop at only selected
points in downtwon London. Why can there be a bus line or lines, form
JFK that make selected stop in downtown Manhattan?
With the bus to LGA I belive that the M60 stops at the second to last
stop on the N line, why can't people just transfer for the N to the
M60?
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NEXT>9959
PREVIOUS>10239
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
In Reply to: [8]Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
posted by Lou from Middletown on February 19, 1998 at 13:28:13:
Imagine that! It just goes to show you that Saddam Hussein isn't the
only one with biological weapons of mass destruction.
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NEXT>9970
PREVIOUS>10207
POSTER>Anyone ever travel to the second ave station
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:42 1998
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Anyone ever travel to the second ave station on the F line late at
Anyone ever travel to the second ave station on the F line late at
night?
Why don't they close it at night and on weekends?
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NEXT>9957
PREVIOUS>9946
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:43 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
Timothy Speer on February 19, 1998 at 16:16:47:
Here is the complete answer to the question.
Philadelphia(Septa's Green line)
Boston(The T's Green line)
Dallas(Dart)
San Francisco(Muni)
Los Angeles(Metro Blue line)
Edmonton
Toronto(TTC)
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Boston & Express runs (Also Philly's SEPTA)
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:44 1998
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In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [8]Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 11:22:18:
Here in Philadelphia, SEPTA's Broad Street Line has a northern
terminal at Fern Rock which is also a stop on the R2 Warminster, R3
West Trenton & R5 Lansdale-Doylestown (all ex-RDG) commuter rail
lines. The latter lines terminated at Fern Rock (instead of continuing
to Center City Philadelphia) during the summers of 1992-3 when SEPTA's
"RailWorks" project closed the railroad for reconstruction. The two
modes are connected by a rather long & steep walkway.
The City Hall & Walnut-Locust stops on the subway are connected via
concourse to Suburban Station & Market East Station on commuter rail.
Although the actual travel times are close, the extra walking involved
in the concourse using commuter rail, the longer headways, & the
additional cost ($2.50 or Zone 2 TrailPass vs. $1.60, a $1.15 token,
or a city TransPass) for peak-hour trains pretty much discourage most
subway riders from using Regional Rail from Fern Rock to City Hall or
Walnut-Locust. (However, city TransPass holders could ride Regional
Rail off-peak to Fern Rock for free.)
Michael S. Buglak
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NEXT>9965
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Why not shut down the subway at night
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:46 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
Why can't the MTA shut down the subway between 12:30am to about 5am so
that the can clean and repair the system, and like London, during this
time special bus routes would be runing? I belive that the subway
system would be not all the way clean, but more clean and more secure,
becaues there would not be people that would be on the train there 24
hours a day.
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PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: The dumbest thing the TA ever did!!!! posted by Dwayne
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Why noy install machnies
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:47 1998
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In Reply to: The dumbest thing the TA ever did!!!! posted by Dwayne
In Reply to: [7]The dumbest thing the TA ever did!!!! posted by Dwayne
J. Davis on February 18, 1998 at 15:00:49:
Whay can't the MTA install machnies at those 5 stations and maybe all
the other stations, so that people can use to put more money on there
metrocards or to get metrocards and buy tokens?
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NEXT>9960
PREVIOUS>9953
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:48 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
In Reply to: [8]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
Testa on February 19, 1998 at 16:57:05:
Does some portion of the Toronto trolley network now operate in a
subway? I know TTC has a heavy-rail subway, but I wasn't aware that
any of the surface lines ducked underground.
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NEXT>9971
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>As official clerk I am posting this progress report: The idea is being
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>"Official" Subway Derby Follow Up
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:50 1998
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As official clerk I am posting this progress report: The idea is being
As official clerk I am posting this progress report: The idea is being
held up by Guiness. We have sent them two letters and have received no
response. The idea is very much alive and we intend to follow up. Our
record will be noteworthy since we know the system better than the
average person. I will keep everyone posted.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9951
POSTER>In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:51 1998
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In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
In Reply to: [8]News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
posted by John B. Bredin on February 19, 1998 at 13:11:44:
> attack the NYC subway with bacteria.
I think the bacteria would have a hard time; I mean the rats have
pretty much established their turf rights.
:-)
-Dave
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NEXT>9961
PREVIOUS>9957
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:53 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
In Reply to: [8]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
Testa on February 19, 1998 at 16:57:05:
Not so complete.
St Louis' Metrolink is a light rail line which runs through downtown
St. Louis in a 19th Century rail tunnel, to which stations have been
added.
As someone else pointed out, Pittsburgh has light rail line(s) running
in a subway tunnel.
Portland's MAX light rail does not at present run in a subway, but
when the West Side extension is completed soon, it will have a subway,
including the deepest station in North America, which I believe will
be called Washington Park.
And since when does Dallas' DART have any subway tunnel?
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NEXT>9968
PREVIOUS>9960
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:54 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
In Reply to: [7]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Dr
Testa on February 19, 1998 at 16:57:05:
Thank you for the news tip. Now I guess question two. I didn't know
Philadelphia had a "Market-Frankford". What is that exactly and why do
I see so many complaints about it's third rail.
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PREVIOUS>9948
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia (& Switches On The El)
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia (& Switches On The El)
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:55 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia (& Switches On The El)
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia (& Switches On The El)
posted by Michael S. Buglak on February 19, 1998 at 16:48:38:
You got that right.
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NEXT>9997
PREVIOUS>10244
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:57 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Adam on February 18, 1998 at 02:01:20:
The reason the lights go out occasionally, such as when switching
tracks, is due to gaps in the third rail. Power is fed to the system
through substations, instead of being fed from one location. These
gaps in the third rail are short, typically less than a car length, so
that the remaining cars in any given train pick up the slack. You'll
note that when the lights do go out, they do so in one car at a time.
The next time this happens, look into the next car after the lights in
your car come back on and see for yourself.
As for the Redbirds being retired, I find it odd that the MTA would
spend big bucks to completely rebuild them, only to retire them within
10-15 years when the normal life expectancy of a subway car is 30
years. It's deja vu in a way: during the late 50s, several hundred BMT
standards were rebuilt; by the end of 1969, they were all gone.
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NEXT>9989
PREVIOUS>10236
POSTER>In Reply to: rockaway double fare posted by aaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:59 1998
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In Reply to: rockaway double fare posted by aaron on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]rockaway double fare posted by aaron on February 18,
1998 at 11:06:24:
I think I remember that they made people get off at Broad Channel. The
second fare was collected by making people exit and re-enter through
the turnstiles.
I was just a tyke at the time, though, so others may have more detail.
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NEXT>9969
PREVIOUS>9955
POSTER>In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Why not shut down the subway at night
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:01 1998
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In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
In Reply to: [7]Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
Fan on February 19, 1998 at 17:11:14:
I would imagine because New York is always busy. It is the city that
never sleeps. Probably enough people are out and about to keep the
trains open.
As far as running late night buses, they do that here in Philadelphia.
On SEPTA the trains stop running between 11:00 and midnight. They
don't use that time to clean the place( it's not THAT dirty to begin
with) and they run Night Owl bus service that follows the exact same
route as the trains and makes the same stops and connections with
buses running for other trains( actually the only other one in
Philly's case). As far as the trolleys go, they run 24/7 but don't
enter the subway from either side( there are two portals for the
trolley) but run to the first stop as soon as you exit the tunnel.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>If there is anyone out there who can tell me something about the
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Does Chicago still have underground rapid transit?
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:02 1998
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If there is anyone out there who can tell me something about the
If there is anyone out there who can tell me something about the
SUBWAY
in Chicago and not the EL. Do they use the same cars and gauge as on
the elevated lines? Does it have the same precarious predicament the
el has in regards to "rail #3."
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10230
POSTER>In Reply to: Anybody got some pointers to Metro North Signal
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Anybody got some pointers to Metro North Signal Aspects?
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:04 1998
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In Reply to: Anybody got some pointers to Metro North Signal
In Reply to: [8]Anybody got some pointers to Metro North Signal
Aspects? posted by Mark from the Woods on February 19, 1998 at
11:43:56:
On Metro Norths Harlem Line, the signal you refered to is a "proceed
cab" signal. Its indication is proceed on the cab signal displayed in
the engineer's cab.Metro North has other dwarf signals which can
display restricting, stop, approach,slow approach,medium appoach.
These signals are located south of Brewster North station at Control
Point 153 (CP 153).
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NEXT>9976
PREVIOUS>9961
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
Mario Velasquez on February 19, 1998 at 17:35:44:
The Market Frankford is a Heavy rail line. It's just like New yorks
subways. Why people complain about the third rail, I've havent the
slightest idea.
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NEXT>9977
PREVIOUS>9965
POSTER>In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Why not shut down the subway at night
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:08 1998
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In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
In Reply to: [8]Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
Fan on February 19, 1998 at 17:11:14:
Perish the thought!
Of course the subways would be safer if no one could use them. But
then, what would be the point of having the subways?
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NEXT>9986
PREVIOUS>9952
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Wado
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:13 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Wado on February 19, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: F line posted by Wado on February 19, 1998 at
02:07:55:
Hey, you've got a Blockbusters Video & a Starbucks in your
neighborhood now. Civilization has reached the East Village. It's
actually fun to walk on Avenue A now!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9958
POSTER>In Reply to: "Official" Subway Derby Follow Up posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: "Official" Subway Derby Follow Up
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:18 1998
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In Reply to: "Official" Subway Derby Follow Up posted by
In Reply to: [8]"Official" Subway Derby Follow Up posted by
subway-buff on February 19, 1998 at 17:28:56:
I am awaiting response from Guinness on the second letter that I have
sent them. I am assuming the first was either lost or misplaced by the
folks at Guinness. So as Subway Buff said hang in there, we're gonna
do this and we're gonna win the record!
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NEXT>9993
PREVIOUS>9868
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
1998 at 09:39:08:
I can't understand why SIR needs 3 person crews. The conductor no
longer collects fares. With MetroCard, all fares are collected at St.
George station in both directions. No fares are collected at any other
station on the line and the conductor usually stays inside the rear
cab for the entire trip, only opening & closing doors.
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NEXT>9985
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Does Chicago still have underground rapid transit?
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Yes, Chicago has underground (and elevated) rapid transit
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:27 1998
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In Reply to: Does Chicago still have underground rapid transit?
In Reply to: [8]Does Chicago still have underground rapid transit?
posted by Jack on February 19, 1998 at 17:53:23:
In Chicago, the subways and L constitute a single system, with the
same cars, track gauge, third rail, voltage, etc., signaling, etc.
throughout the system on all lines. Cars can be and are often moved
from one line to another, though some of the trackage to do this is
not in revenue (passenger-carrying) service.
The system actually has subway, L, expressway median, and private
surface right of way. "L"s dominate the system, and, with the
exception of short subway tunnels connecting one kind of track to
another (i.e. from an old L to a newer median line), the only subways
are downtown. The two subway lines run as elevateds and median
trackage outside downtown. And some of the L lines come into downtown
as elevated, running on the Loop L structure.
To summarize:
Four lines (Green, Orange, Brown, and Purple) run on L their entire
length (with some private surface ROW on the outer ends of the Brown
and Purple) and all four run on the Loop elevated structure downtown.
Thus, one can easily exchange between these lines.
Two lines (Red and Blue), the busiest in the system, run on "L"s,
expressway medians, and a short surface ROW outside downtown, but
enter (separate) subway tunnels near downtown. They are only one block
apart in the heart of downtown, and passengers can pass through
block-long free-transfer tunnels between the State Street (Red) and
Dearborn Street (Blue) subways at two stations.
And one line, the Yellow, runs in private ROW, mostly surface but a
short portion of open cut. It does not go downtown, but acts as a
weekday-only shuttle between the northern terminal of the Red Line and
a station in the northern suburb of Skokie, with no stations in
between (hence its old name, the Skokie Swift). The Yellow is a
stretch of the old North Shore electric interurban, and runs on
overhead wire instead of third rail, like the rest of the system. But
the trains used for the Yellow can run on third rail, and they do at
the interchange with the Red Line. Occasionally, one sees these cars
used for Purple Line service as well as Yellow.
The Red, Purple, and Brown share some trackage north of the Loop, and
the Green and Orange share some trackage south of the Loop.
Last but not least, on the issue of the third rail, the third rail in
Chicago is not under the platform but opposite it, so than someone
falling off the platform or trying to duck under it to avoid being run
over by a train will not be electrocuted. On the other hand, the third
rail in Chicago is totally exposed, without the covering it has in
other cities, like NYC.
Hope this helps.
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NEXT>9996
PREVIOUS>9940
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Ed Sachs
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:33 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Ed Sachs on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Ed Sachs on February
19, 1998 at 15:38:52:
Actually, it was a scale model, but it had the LOOK of the NY Els,
which was my point.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10246
POSTER>In Reply to: Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:42 1998
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In Reply to: Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer on February
In Reply to: [8]Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer on February
18, 1998 at 08:45:49:
I'm not sure of the actual capacity, but I'm guessing it can HANDLE a
few thousand amps (like 1 or 2 or 3000). How much is being DRAWN, on
the other hand, depends on if there's a train on it, and what it's
doing.
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NEXT>9980
PREVIOUS>9968
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:51 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by
Alan Follett on February 19, 1998 at 17:27:28:
Toronto's #512 St. Clair streetcar runs for several blocks under St.
Clair Avenue to make easier transfers with the subway at St. Clair
West station. While under the street, it shares its Right of Way with
a couple of bus lines. So passengers on the buses & streetcars can
transfer between the subway & each other without the need of transfer
slips.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9969
POSTER>In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Why not shut down the subway at night
DATE>Mar 1 14:49:58 1998
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In Reply to: Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
In Reply to: [7]Why not shut down the subway at night posted by Rail
Fan on February 19, 1998 at 17:11:14:
In response to this same question, asked months ago, someone stated
that the system is so large that by the time the out-of-service trains
found their way to the yards, it would be time to dispatch them out
for the next morning!
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NEXT>9990
PREVIOUS>9943
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:08 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Peter Rosa on February 18, 1998 at 12:24:19:
Sounds like a reasonable idea, but as mentioned in another post when
short trains are used the TA wants trains to stop near exits. Another
thought occured to me and this is just pure speculation. There are
many things the TA does that don't seem to make much sense, untill you
calculate in the safety factor. With no conductor indication boards,
you are relying on only one member of the train crew to ensure the
train is properly at the platform. If the train were to over shoot or
stop short of the station how would the Conductor know this. It is
true in this situation that the Train Operator is to pass one long
buzzer to the conductor as an alert not to open the doors. What if the
buzzer fails in that instance, or the Operator pushes the wrong
button, Say for instance, the button marked RESET which is right next
to the button marked BUZZER.(I have no idea what the RESET button
resets but it is there at the Train Operators position on R-62's :-} I
see a possible tragedy occuring unless the train crew is very lucky.
Some Conductors are very fast and POP Them doors open as soon as the
train stops. I would not want to operate without conductor indication
boards. Its a simple safeguard that ensures the train is properly at
the platform. Any way, let me get off my soap box before I fall and
hurt my self.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10225
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: inquire posted by Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: inquire
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:18 1998
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In Reply to: Re: inquire posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: inquire posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 18,
1998 at 17:22:01:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about Grafitti; let's not lecture him and
start one of THOSE threads again.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9976
POSTER>In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo?
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:25 1998
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In Reply to: Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
In Reply to: [8]Who's got light rail besides Buffalo? posted by Mario
Velasquez on February 19, 1998 at 15:36:00:
Although none of it goes underground..in fact....some of it is aerial,
Baltimore has a light rail line that runs North/ South from Hunt
Valley in the north, to Glen Burnie in the south with connections to
Penn Station (Amtrak) and BWI (Baltimore-Washington Int'l Airport)----
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10142
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:31 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Darren on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Z and #9 train posted by Darren on February 18,
1998 at 17:00:31:
Simply put, the Manhattan bridge is in need of heavy maintenance, but
they are squabbling over who should pay for it, transit or highways.
In the interim,trains are banned.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Could somebody post the car assignment list for the NYCT Sub System as
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Car Assignments
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:36 1998
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Could somebody post the car assignment list for the NYCT Sub System as
Could somebody post the car assignment list for the NYCT Sub System as
a re to this post?
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NEXT>9984
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Westchester County New Page Assistance Needed
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:39 1998
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I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
Westchester County
Thank you
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/TRACKMAPS/index.html
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9983
POSTER>I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Westchester County New Page Assistance Needed
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:45 1998
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I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
I am requesting your assistance in putting together a Reference Map on
Westchester County
Thank you
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/TRACKMAPS/index.html
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9973
POSTER>In Reply to: Yes, Chicago has underground (and elevated) rapid
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Yes, Chicago has underground (and elevated) rapid transit
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:48 1998
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In Reply to: Yes, Chicago has underground (and elevated) rapid
In Reply to: [8]Yes, Chicago has underground (and elevated) rapid
transit posted by John B. Bredin on February 19, 1998 at 18:50:53:
The did lose one system.
The electric narrow gauge freight subway was abandoned
amd they almost destroyed all communications in the Loop
when they broke through one of the tunnels under the Chicago River.
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NEXT>9987
PREVIOUS>9970
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:50 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
Hey -- you're talking about my home station there!!!
I know I'm being selfish, but 2nd Avenue is the stop closest to my
parents' house. I took the F to school every day, and am glad the
station is where it is. It has never been as busy as many of the other
stops on the F, but the East Village is becoming a pretty hip place to
live. I bet you'll see revenue increasing in the near future!
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NEXT>9991
PREVIOUS>9986
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:52 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
Necause it serves a neighbohood of citizens!! just because the station
is IND giant economy size for sad but valid reasons--see the Second
Ave subway page--is no reason to close it. Maybe some weekend you
might visit the museum on Orchard St.. An old law tenement building
memoria;izing Jewish immigration to this area. AND go to Katz's for a
sandwich. Send a salami to your boy in the army.
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NEXT>9992
PREVIOUS>10247
POSTER>In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:54 1998
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In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
1998 at 10:20:04:
Overcrowding is caused not only by more riders but by fewer cars. The
number of cars in service is down quite a bit from just a few years
ago. This situation won't improve until the new deliveries start
arriving.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9964
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [8]Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 11:31:40:
I have a vague recollection of this. I seem to remember there being
double ended turnstiles were a token was collected in order to leave
thru the turnstiles
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9978
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:50:59 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Steve on February 17, 1998 at 21:42:56:
Why use conductors' boards at all? Simply have the train operators
stop when the fronts of the lead cars reach the far ends of the
platforms. This will ensure that all doors will platform.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9987
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:01 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
For the same reason many underused stations are not closed - they do
server a limited number of people who live or work in the proximity of
those stations. Remember what happened when the MTA wanted to close
the Franklin Ave shuttle? Cries of favoritism and unfairness ... and
the shuttle isn't heavily utilized.
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9988
POSTER>In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:03 1998
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In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
1998 at 10:20:04:
Wow! Too many riders! Overcrowding! What a great problem for NYC
Transit to have. Who woulda thunk it a few years ago? Ridership is at
its highest since 1974, IIRC. Tourism, a steady economy and new jobs
all play a part in this. It's a good thing.
Hopefully, those involved with capacity planning are already hard at
work figuring out service IMPROVEMENTS to alleviate this condition.
(Improvements! Could F express service in Brooklyn be far behind?? J
expresses from Broadway - Eastern Pkwy? A second avenue su - oops,
reality check here) NYC Transit will shortly (if they haven't already)
run A express service in Brooklyn to 10pm weekdays, as an example.
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9972
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIR trains posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
1998 at 09:39:08:
FRA rules maybe?
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10206
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
February 17, 1998 at 21:39:40:
The Astoria Line was supposed to be extended to, and past, where
LaGuardia Airport is today as part of the IND Phase 2 project, which
included the 2nd Ave. Line. Although I've never ridden this line, I
understand that the tracks curve off to the northeast at or just past
Ditmars Blvd. in anticipation of such an extension.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9926
POSTER>In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:12 1998
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In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [8]Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 11:22:18:
In Chicago, no commuter lines run "neck and neck" parallel to rapid
transit lines in the manner you describe. However:
* the Union Pacific (formerly C&NW) Northwest line is the closest
thing we get to a parallel line, in that it runs along side the
Kennedy Expressway for several miles, while the Blue Line runs in the
median of the expressway for part of its length. There are neighboring
stations at Irving Park and a common station at Jefferson Park.
* The UP West line runs along the Lake Street portion of the Green
Line for a few miles, and they have nearby stations in Oak Park.
* the UP North line runs along side the Purple Line for a few miles in
Evanston, and they have neighboring stations at a couple of stops in
Evanston, including the busy downtown-Evanston Davis station.
The Metra has a different fare structure than the CTA, so for some of
the common stations, the commuter train is only $0.25 more than the
subway but at others, the difference is $1.45! Also, the UP station is
on the west side of the river, a good few blocks from the big
destinations in the Loop, while the rapid transit runs on or through
the Loop.
An interesting thing is that, in the tunnel flood of a few years ago,
the Milwaukee-Dearborn subway of the Blue Line was closed. Commuter
fare from the Irving Park and Jefferson Park UP-NW stations is only
$0.25 more than the subway, so many at those busy stations took the
commuter trains in -- and some never went back to the subway once it
reopened.
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NEXT>9999
PREVIOUS>9974
POSTER>Can someone give me a background
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:16 1998
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Can someone give me a background on this line.When it opened?How long
Can someone give me a background on this line.When it opened?How long
it ran?and the reason why it isn't in service now?
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NEXT>9998
PREVIOUS>9963
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:21 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Adam on February 18, 1998 at 02:01:20:
Where will they go when they're retired? Some thoughts:
- the great subway in the sky. (Where IS the final resting place for a
retired subway car? Where are they typically shipped for scrap?)
- some to museums, I'd expect Branford and Seashore to get some,
perhaps Illinois Railway Museum, too
- work train service
- FANTRIPS! I'd expect a slew of "farewell to the R-2x/3x" fantrips in
'99, 2000 and 2001 as the cars are retired.
- Storage. Some might linger for the subway's centennial in 2004, as
well as future Nostalgia Trains.
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9997
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:28 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Peter Rosa on February 18, 1998 at 09:31:37:
There's severe corrosion on the sides of the car body where each side
meets the bottom. *Really* bad in some instances.
Do you think the R-32/R-38 series car bodies lasted so well because of
stainless steel (ignoring the other components for the moment)?
--Mark
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>9996
POSTER>Can someone give me a background
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:32 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Can someone give me a background on this line.When it opened?How long
Can someone give me a background on this line.When it opened?How long
it ran?and the reason why it isn't in service now?
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NEXT>10034
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Two times both
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>MTA Survey on Low Use Week !!?!?!?!?!?
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:34 1998
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Two times both on a bus and on the train this week I saw individuals
Two times both on a bus and on the train this week I saw individuals
in orange MTA Vests with clipboard and counter checking ridership
levels on the subway. And on the Bus there was someone in the first
seat (taknig up space from the reserved elderly seats) noting how many
got on and off and the times.
Why is the MTA paying to survey ridership levels on a week without
Public School?? Since the kids are off wouldn't ridership be down with
familys taking vacation (not to say all the student riders alone)??
Another waste of money...
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NEXT>10007
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Michael Lyons on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:36 1998
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In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Michael Lyons on
In Reply to: [7]Re: rockaway double fare posted by Michael Lyons on
February 18, 1998 at 12:23:45:
I never witnessed the actual collection, but I do recall that subway
maps of the mid- to late-70s had a notation next to the Broad Channel
station "Extra fare south of this station". So obviously it did exist.
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NEXT>10054
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:38 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Mark S Feinman on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIR trains posted by Mark S Feinman on February
18, 1998 at 12:40:23:
Umm, they run 2 men trains on the weekends with 4 cars. I don't think
adding another car requires it. I think SIR is not classified as a
true railroad, somthing about FRA requirement of engine inspections
that they are exempt from (but they have FRA certified type II Glass
for windows unlike the Subway).
Rush hour always had 3 person crew when I rode 4 cars even when they
switch to St. George fair collection 6am-10am but they used them on
the reverse run for fair collection in the cars. There wasn't always
two conductors one was a trainman (the badges on the hat said so). I
got very friendly with a trainman on my school train each day. The
crew would switch off who would do the doors and collect in the end
car and who would collect in the other two cars (non rush hour 4 car
train/3 cars open) but the last run of the day the conductor would
always get the door/1 car job. My friend would complain he would have
to collect in two cars for two trips, how unfair it was but RHIP!
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NEXT>10109
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:40 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Nick on
February 17, 1998 at 21:39:40:
You can get bus service to either the E line or the #7 from the
LaGuardia passenger pickup area. Look for lines Q33 and Q48.
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NEXT>10066
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Buzzing Sound
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by Steve on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by Steve on
February 16, 1998 at 23:30:05:
The fact that this noise problem is location specific suggests to me
that there is a threshold value that lets it through. If the PA system
has a quieting threshold adjustment somewhere, this might be one way
to limit the interference.
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NEXT>10086
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:43 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
In Reply to: [8]Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
by John B. Bredin on February 17, 1998 at 17:54:34:
Sorry I forgot to mention the conductors in the subways; my aunt told
me about that, too. It's too bad that so many L stations have island
platforms (except on the Loop); this alone probably contributes more
to longer running times with OPTO than anything else, since the
operator has to get up, walk over to the other side of the car, work
the doors, walk back to his operating post, and get rolling again.
With outside platforms, all he has to do is look out through the cab
window while operating the doors. One question comes to mind: were
conductors in Chicago required to observe the platform for three car
lengths as the train was leaving a station to ensure no one was being
dragged the way they do in New York?
Here in Denver, our light rail line is OPTO; the operator works the
doors without getting up from his seat. The cars have chimes which
beep-beep-beep when the doors are about to close, then beep rapidly as
the doors close.
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NEXT>10132
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:45 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Peter Rosa on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: Crowded subways posted by Peter Rosa on February
18, 1998 at 12:14:45:
I don't see how new cars is going to help. As it is, the overcrowding
of trains along 6th Avenue has slowed service to a snails pace. There
are only so many tracks and stations.
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NEXT>10175
PREVIOUS>10001
POSTER>In Reply to: rockaway double fare posted by aaron
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:47 1998
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In Reply to: rockaway double fare posted by aaron on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]rockaway double fare posted by aaron on February 18,
1998 at 11:06:24:
The extra fare was collected by charging a token to EXIT the system at
Broad Channel and all Rockaway Peninsula stations. Without that token,
you were like Charlie and the (other) MTA in the famous song. To enter
the system at Rockaway stations and Broad Channel, you had to put TWO
tokens into the turnstile.
Of course, people who wantd to could ride to Rockaway and back for a
single fare, if they didn't exit the system, but their numbers were
small. Supposedly, there was some kind of ticket system for people who
wanted to ride locally within the extra-fare zone, so that they would
only pay two fares instead of three. I'm not sure exactly how it
worked, perhaps you could request a ticket when paying the double fare
for entry, and could present it when exiting so you could leave the
system without additional charge.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Swiss links posted by GAR
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Swiss links -- Die Zuricher Strassenbahnen
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:48 1998
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In Reply to: Swiss links posted by GAR on January 26, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]Swiss links posted by GAR on January 26, 1998 at
21:45:38:
I was in Zurich for a couple of days in 1984. The streetcars are great
there. They take you everywhere, mainly on PRW in the center of the
street. I got there by car but just left it in a residential street
and rode the Strassenbahn everywhere. The timetable is a book of a
couple of hundred pages, listing every tram, bus, boat, etc. in the
system. Every medium or big city in every German-speaking country has
these books, it seems.
And of course, the Alps and the lake are all around. One trip I took
was some commuter railroad to the top of some mountain on the west
edge of Zurich, then I walked downhill for 2 (zigzagging) miles or so
on a pedestrian path, and got Tram #13 back to the center of town.
Actually any town in those countries with a tram or U-bahn (subway)
system is easy to get around without a car. Just get the map and
timetable book and an all-day ticket. The U in U-bahn I think stands
for Untergrund (or underground).The commuter trains that run through
town (like the Philadelphia commuter tunnel) are the S-bahn or
Stadt-bahn lines. The combination of 6 or 7 (half-hourly) commuter
lines running through the city on one set of tracks has the effect of
being like a single subway line in the city portion. And the trains
are usually like subway trains, not like Amercian commuter lines.
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NEXT>10013
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by Norma
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pictures
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:50 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by Norma on January 27, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pictures posted by Norma on January 27, 1998 at
14:30:30:
There is an excerpt from the law code governing photography in the
subway cited in the [9]Subway FAQ. Unfortunately the cops that stopped
you were wrong (unless you were actually using a flash, which is
prohobited).
Section 1050.9c of the Official Compilation Codes, Rules and
Regulations of the State of New York, Volume 21 applies to the NYCT
and MaBSTOA, section 1040.4f of the same document applies to SIRT. In
each case the language is the same:
Photography, filming, or video recording in any facility or
conveyance
is permitted except that ancillary equipment such as lights,
reflectors, or tripods may not be used. Members of the press
holding
valid identification issued by the New York City Police Department
are
hereby authorized to use necessary ancillary equipment. All
photographic activity must be conducted in accordance to the
provisions of these rules.
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NEXT>10014
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A)
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:51 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on January 27, 1998 at 07:54:39:
Hi Lou and everyone on board,
I just recently found this board and wanted to say hello. This site is
great!! My complements to those who make this site possible. I am a
new Subway Conductor, finshed training, and I just started my fourth
week on the Extra Extra List. I LOVE IT!!! Spend 90% of my time on the
6 Line.
Now, to your question. In School Car we learned that when the Amber
marker light, which is located midway along the side of the car at the
same level as the Guard Light or GL's, depending on the type of
equipment, is flashing this means that an EBV (emergency brake valve)
has been activated in that particular car. The marker light needs to
be reset independent of the EBV, which accounts for the occasional car
passing with the marker light flashing.
A steady amber marker light has somthing to do with the traction
motors in the particular car not operating. Not completly sure about
the details.
Anyway, I am happy to help you with your question and I look forward
to having a lot of fun here.
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NEXT>10024
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dwayne J. Davis
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Second avenue and the Bronx
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:53 1998
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In Reply to: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dwayne J. Davis
In Reply to: [7]Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dwayne J. Davis
on January 26, 1998 at 18:53:23:
If the LIRR is connected to the 63rd Street tunnel and Grand Central,
and some LIRR trains start traveling to GCT, there will be capacity
available to Penn Station. The RPA has proposed running New Haven Line
trains to Penn Station via the Hell Gate Bridge, and Hudson Line
trains to Penn Station via the Spuytil Duyvil Bridge. The idea is to
give people from the suburbs a choice of Grand Central or Penn,
thereby giving people an increased incentive to move out of the Bronx.
But if there is capacity at Penn for the suburbanites, then there is
capacity at Penn for an East Bronx commuter line in the Amtrack right
of way, to match the existing Hudson and Harlem Line service in the
Bronx. The availability of a premium service would do much to keep
what's left of the middle class in Morris Park, Parkchester, Pelham
Parkway, City Island, etc. The disused and abandoned section on this
site shows where the stations used to be. A friend who lives in the
East Bronx tells me that no one, especially no one female, takes the
subway from the East Bronx to Manhattan -- the use express bus. This
can't be good for property values.
I suggested to someone in my office, who actually ran for public
office in the Bronx, that it would be nice if someone in the Bronx had
the intellegence to demand East Bronx commuter service to Penn in
exchange for approval of the LIRR connection to Grand Central
(commuter service on the Rockaway Branch in Queens, fixing of
replacing the Manhattan Bridge to Brooklyn, and building at least part
of the Second Avenue subway would also be nice). To the extent that
elected officials in the Bronx have intellegence, however, they are
intellegent enough to know that what they really want is ever more
government money for non-profit health and social service providers,
which will provide their sort of people with enough income to move out
of the Bronx.
Unfortunately, very few people seem to care about the future of the
Bronx, even among those who live there. That is not a climate
conductive to spending short term money on investments with long term
benefits.
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NEXT>8888
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Www.nycsubway.org News - 1/26/1998 posted by David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Www.nycsubway.org News - 1/26/1998
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:55 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Www.nycsubway.org News - 1/26/1998 posted by David
In Reply to: [7]Re: Www.nycsubway.org News - 1/26/1998 posted by David
Pirmann on January 26, 1998 at 12:02:36:
Apparently Lafayette St. used to be Elm St. beginning at the North
border of city hall park. There is still a two block stretch of Elm at
that point, but it is obliterated for three blocks further north, when
it resumes as Lafayette.
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NEXT>10022
PREVIOUS>10009
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by David Pirmann
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pictures
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by David Pirmann on January 27,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Pictures posted by David Pirmann on January 27,
1998 at 16:43:13:
An old friend of Chinese heritage (Doesn't that make this a Chinese
Proverb?) used to love to tell me "Easier to beg forgiveness than ask
for permission". I fear if you try to find someone in the bureacracy
who will give you written permission, you will waste a lot of time!
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NEXT>10017
PREVIOUS>10010
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A)
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:58 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
Michael Lyons on January 27, 1998 at 19:47:58:
Thanks Michael for a great explanation.
I don't ride the 6 much, sometimes the 4/5 from Boro Hall to 59th St
so I won't be able to watch "your closing doors" .
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NEXT>8887
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Historical R-10s? posted by Lou from Middletown on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Historical R-10s?
DATE>Mar 1 14:51:59 1998
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In Reply to: Historical R-10s? posted by Lou from Middletown on
In Reply to: [8]Historical R-10s? posted by Lou from Middletown on
January 26, 1998 at 09:44:58:
Coney Island yard has 2 R-12s that are used for police training and
they're still painted in the old MTA silver & blue stripe scheme. I'll
bet that's what you saw.
--Mark
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NEXT>8878
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: New York City Subway Line-by-Line: The Astoria
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: New York City Subway Line-by-Line: The Astoria Line
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:01 1998
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In Reply to: Re: New York City Subway Line-by-Line: The Astoria
In Reply to: [8]Re: New York City Subway Line-by-Line: The Astoria
Line posted by Ed Sachs on January 27, 1998 at 10:02:28:
Thanks for setting me straight. I understand you're the go-to when it
comes to pre-Chrystie St. services. Perhaps a more appropriate opening
would have been, "Actually, the RR resumed running to Astoria in
1967." Most of my route knowledge goes back as far as 1967; I'm a bit
fuzzy on details before that. We moved to New Jersey from Indiana that
year (I'm a South Bend native) and went to NYC on a regular basis over
the next few years. Of course, I rode the subway whenever I had a
chance... I'm a resident of metro Denver now - OK, the Broncos won the
Super Bowl, and I'm happy for them, but I will always be a Giants and
Mets fan.
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NEXT>10019
PREVIOUS>10014
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:02 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on January 28, 1998 at 15:35:23:
Lou, if you rode on my train I would be asking you to STAND CLEAR of
the closing doors. As you may well be aware the MTA NYCT does not want
its "Customers" watching the doors ;-) This is taught in school car,
we must only ask that they stand clear of the closing doors. I
remember when the Conductor always said "Watch the closing doors". I
also recall the Conductor asking everyone to "Step lively". Does
anyone eles remember that?
Our Blue Book rules tell us to never say "Step lively" it suggestes
that we ask the Customers to step carefully.
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NEXT>10021
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:03 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights posted by Steve B on January 28,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker lights posted by Steve B on January 28,
1998 at 12:07:52:
The only marker light combination for the IRT I know for sure is Green
and Green. This would have been a north bound Lexington Ave Exp to
Woodlawn Road. When I was a kid my Grandmother lived on 74st off 2nd
Ave and I lived in the Bronx off Jerome Ave. My younger brothers and I
would catch the train at 86th St., after changing from the local, in
order to get home. We could tell long before the train ever got to the
station that it was a 4 train. Boy, does this bring back
memories.(sigh)
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NEXT>8939
PREVIOUS>10017
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:04 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on January 27, 1998 at 07:54:39:
To explain the Yellow Lights without getting too techincal - When
there is a propulsion circuit "Overload" failure, the controller shuts
down and the Yellow light comes on. The train operator can reset the
overload a pre-determined number of times (5X on the R-46, R-68 and
R-68A). After the 5th Overload trip, the controller locks out the
reset and the car must be brought into the shop for repair. By the
way, on the 75' cars, we're talking about 1400-1500 amps to trip out
the controller. Not exactly child's play.
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NEXT>10025
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
Droo on January 27, 1998 at 22:46:25:
Please forgive Sammy. She has such a dislike for the MTA that she has
lost all objectivity. Perhaps if they started offering peanuts
on-board the train or "Frequent Railer Miles" she'd feel better.
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NEXT>8845
PREVIOUS>10018
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights posted by Michael Lyons
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Marker lights
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:07 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights posted by Michael Lyons on January
In Reply to: [8]Re: Marker lights posted by Michael Lyons on January
28, 1998 at 16:30:40:
I must confess that I never paid any attention to marker lights during
my frequent trips to New York when I lived back east. Marker lights
were still being used when I went back in 1984 for the first time in
four years, and I wrote down every combination I saw. I still have
that sheet somewhere. If I remember right, the 1 and 2 lines were
white/red and red/white, and the 7 was one of those two. I got a funny
look from the motorman on a D train when he saw me gazing intently at
the marker lights on his train. These were R-32s before they were
rebuilt. When I told him I was writing down marker light combinations,
he said he was sure they were correct for his train - green/white.
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NEXT>8833
PREVIOUS>10013
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by Gary Jacobi
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Pictures
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:08 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Pictures posted by Gary Jacobi on January 28, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: Pictures posted by Gary Jacobi on January 28, 1998
at 13:50:21:
I believe you can get a photographer's pass at the MTA headquarters at
370 Jay St. in Brooklyn.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, OPTO NYC
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:09 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
In Reply to: [7]Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
by Steve B on February 18, 1998 at 08:44:24:
OPTO operators do not have to watch the platform as the train leaves,
he better be watching the track in front of him .
The new door detection devices is suppose to detect anything as big as
a credit card or bigger in the doors and not give the "light". OPTO
stoping places (special OPTO Stop sign in addition to the numbered
signs for where trains stop) have the train on non curved portions of
the station (ammazing in some of the B line stations where the stop is
because they are built on a curve).
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NEXT>10026
PREVIOUS>10011
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dan Schwartz
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Second avenue and the Bronx
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:13 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dan Schwartz
In Reply to: [7]Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Dan Schwartz
on January 26, 1998 at 20:35:52:
Under the city zoning regulations, any development in a rail right of
way requires a city planning commission special permit. The Bronx
Office of City Planning would know what, if anything, is proposed for
the right of way.
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NEXT>8823
PREVIOUS>10020
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:15 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Another Ride Home Redux (or, Steve???) posted by
Splat on January 25, 1998 at 11:59:13:
I worked for the transit authority in the mid-1980s, during the Gunn
years. In my current job, I have had to deal with a wide variety of
city agencies. The TA is the best run public agency in the city. That
may not be saying much, but in the country of the blind the one eyed
man is king.
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NEXT>8912
PREVIOUS>10024
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Larry
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Second avenue and the Bronx
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:17 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Larry
In Reply to: [8]Re: Second avenue and the Bronx posted by Larry
Littlefield on January 27, 1998 at 19:48:56:
Dwayne:
On a certain level, I agree: There are many people in the Bronx who
don't care about what happens to the area... However, I care about the
Bronx (even though I moved out of there a little more than 5 years
ago)... There are many residential areas in the Bronx that are
absolutely gorgeous... That is why (since this IS a transit talking
site) that maybe some people would not like the idea of having a
Eastern Bronx-Penn line made... The majority (I assume... but you know
what happens when you assume...) of the people in the "nicer" areas do
not take the subway in... Rather, they drive or they take the express
buses... Could a line open (say running from New Rochelle to Penn via
the Hells Gate) to provide some service... I guess so, but look where
the train would run... If I remember correctly, the train runs through
Pelham Bay Park (6 train) then alongside Tremont Avenue (the 2 and 5
trains are a MetroCard ride away) and then parallel to Southern
Boulevard starting at Whitlock Ave. (again the 6) all the way to Hells
Gate... After that, it shoots into Queens, and uses the East River
tunnels (I'm not sure how close they are to the LIRR tunnels)... The
only way you would be able to reach the Southeastern section of the
BRONX, via rail, is to construct a subway and/or viaduct. I believe in
the plan to extend the system (called the IND - Second System) was to
run a train via viaduct over Lafayette Ave. to Tremont Ave. I think a
subway could work better... Then, the area of Throggs Neck can be a
little more accessible... But, then again, my whole idea is just a lot
of "wishful thinking."
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Conductor Announcement
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:18 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Marker lights ORANGE (R44/6, R68,A) posted by
Michael Lyons on January 28, 1998 at 16:17:32:
I think the new MTA Buzz word is "WATCH THE GAP" but they never say
that on the subway >GTell me, is it a rule that you have to shut the
rear half of the train first before the front?
Lately I've noticed that even though the front half has no one
boarding or exiting, the conductor is trying to close up the rear half
where half the station is still boarding (50St Rock.Center waiting for
my Q and watching the B).
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NEXT>10199
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston &
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:20 1998
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In Reply to: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston &
In Reply to: [8]Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston &
Express runs) posted by John B. Bredin on February 18, 1998 at
12:41:44:
The Flushing-Main Street terminal of the 7 train is adjacent to a Long
Island RR station on the Pt. Washington line. Commuting times to
midtown Manhattan are ~20 minutes on the LIRR and ~40 minutes on the
subway. A monthly ticket on the LIRR is $117, while a regular commuter
on the subway would pay about $60 per month and would get transfers to
other subways and buses.
I have read that the LIRR has about 400 monthly ticket holders from
Flushing - that may seem like a lot, but consider that the subway
station is one of the busiest in the system with over 25,000 riders a
day (not all of whom are going into Manhattan, however). So in this
instance, most riders value money more than time.
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NEXT>10047
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Todd Glickman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Todd Glickman on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: Z and #9 train posted by Todd Glickman on February
17, 1998 at 13:12:57:
For awhile, #9 trains ran middays, so in those days it deserved a
circle. But you're right about the Z.
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NEXT>10031
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:24 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Michael Lyons on February 17, 1998 at 16:56:43:
I can understand this was the BEST way from a customer standpoint, one
or two had to walk one door lenght to exit and we were on our way as
quick as if the conductor had to open/close the doors for someone
holding them.
Thanks for your comment on the rule book..
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NEXT>10085
PREVIOUS>10030
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:25 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Mark Goldey on February 17, 1998 at 15:48:30:
I can see one door missing, people make mistakes. I can also see why
you don't want envolve supervison for a one time occurance. But for
anything more than a door would be another type of problem.
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NEXT>10168
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:26 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
In Reply to: [7]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
M. Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 09:49:50:
During the years the JFK train was running, the transit fare was hiked
a few times, but I'm not sure about the JFK express fare (I never rode
it). Between the years of it's inception and discontinuence, the
regular fare went from (if I remember correctly) $.50 - $.60 - $.90 -
$1.00 - $1.15.
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NEXT>9536
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Ed Sachs on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Chicago L near Ashand Ave.
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:28 1998
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In Reply to: Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Ed Sachs on
In Reply to: [8]Chicago L near Ashand Ave. posted by Ed Sachs on
February 08, 1998 at 12:21:41:
My first time Chicago was in '62.
Came in on the Wolverine to go to Great Lakes NTC.
At that time, the line was still intact, but not in revenue service.
The Wells St line had just been moved up from the street to the C&NW
ROW.
There was still the stub end terminal that the CA&E used and the
southside stub terminal that the North Shore laid up in.
The Evanston Line was running with overhead wire.
And, of course, the North Shore was still running.
One of the places that I would have liked to have seen was the
junction of the Metropolitan and the Congress El and the Stock Yards
Line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10000
POSTER>In Reply to: MTA Survey
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: MTA Survey on Low Use Week !!?!?!?!?!?
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:30 1998
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In Reply to: MTA Survey on Low Use Week !!?!?!?!?!? posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]MTA Survey on Low Use Week !!?!?!?!?!? posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on February 18, 1998 at 12:53:25:
I suppose the MTA wants to see whether ridership this week is low
enough to warrant service reductions next year.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business QueensBridge
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:31 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Roosevelt Island Tram-Back in Business posted by
Steve on February 08, 1998 at 21:05:49:
Yup the 21st Station is right under the Queensbridge Houses (Project).
Not a nice area to be in towards the evening. But I do use the station
as an third alternate to D/Q to F (QueensPlaza) or D/Q to 7
(Queensboro Plaza) but not that often.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The dumbest thing the TA ever did!!!!
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:32 1998
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In Reply to: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
In Reply to: [7]Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 17, 1998 at 15:38:43:
I live close to the Dyer line. I use the Gun Hill Road train station
all the time. There's not any other way to get out of there by train.
The TA used to collect the fare on board but then they stopped. The
gates were leaft open though. There were no signs posted anywhere!
People would just walk right in just like we were used to doing for
years. Then at the bottom of the stairwell the plain clothes cops
would ticket or arrest those without proper ID. Many people who work
nights were the ones caught. My stepfather is one of them. There is no
way for anyone in that area to buy a token or metrocard after 8:30.
The service at around that time is sh!tty anyway so if you miss one
train that could add at least 30 min's of travel time. For people
going to work that is outrageous!
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NEXT>10157
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>What is the current of the NYC subway third rail? (in amperes)
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:34 1998
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What is the current of the NYC subway third rail? (in amperes)
What is the current of the NYC subway third rail? (in amperes)
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NEXT>10105
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:35 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by
Bootsy on February 17, 1998 at 18:45:40:
Fares were collected on Dyre Ave. trains before the line was tied into
the rest of the subway network; i. e., from 1941 until somewhere
around 1957, when flyover ramps were built. As to whether or not this
practice was discontinued after that, I don't know; I've never ridden
on the Dyre Ave. line myself.
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NEXT>9656
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Adam
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: NYC Airport Light Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:37 1998
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In Reply to: Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Adam on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: NYC Airport Light Rail posted by Adam on February
11, 1998 at 16:17:02:
I would hope that the current Howard Beach side platforms become
island platforms with the A line tracks remaining where they are on
the inside, and the new Airport LRT tracks installed along the
outside. This would make convenient cross-platform changes possible.
(I make that statement from 1200 miles away and not knowing what's
behind the corrigated fences. But with the right design and some cash,
anything is possible!)
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NEXT>10167
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Ian
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:38 1998
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In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Ian on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: rockaway double fare posted by Ian on February 18,
1998 at 12:54:58:
The maps (I think) actually had "Extra Fare Beyond this Point" written
above Broad Channel. Broad Channel and all Rockaway stations required
an extra token to exit. To get it required a token payment. To get on
at a Rockaway station and get out another one required getting a
coupon to get the fare back. You were paying the second fare to get to
the main part of Queens. (I believe this is what they still do in
Boston for the far southern end of the Braintree Red Line segment.)
I believe this Rockaway double fare was instituted because, when the
line was created in 1956, the private bus companies in Rockaway
realized they were going to lose most of their fares. This is because
previously everyone had been taking a bus to Lefferts Blvd, New Lots
Avenue, or Flatbush Avenue. If the subway now made Rockaway a 1-fare
zone, then even if the private bus service were competitive as far as
service was concerned, people would take the subway to save a token.
By making it a 2-token rail line, the buses remained competitive. On
the peninsula itself, the local buses are certainly more frequent and
faster than using the train, since the train does not run very often.
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NEXT>9822
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Steve on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh??
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:40 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Steve on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Equipment Changes -- Huh?? posted by Steve on
February 15, 1998 at 00:15:22:
Does that mean that the R-32s and the R-40s are coming off the N line?
I would be really disappointed because I find these cars far superior
to the R-68s.
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NEXT>9909
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going to after West Side
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:41 1998
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In Reply to: [8]What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going to
after West Side depot opens March 1st. posted by Michael on February
15, 1998 at 12:29:45:
Mother Hale BX19 Bx21 M1 M4 (split Manhattanville)M7 and Bx33
Kingsbridge Bx1 ,2,3,7,9,10,18,20,Bx41, 55,10 11 13 32 35 38 M100
Gun Hill Bx4,5,8,12,14,16,17
22,26,28,27,29,30,31,34,39,Bx40,42
Hudson M6,m8,m9,m11,m14,m21 m22,m23 mQ32 Split
Manhattanville m3 m4 m5 M2 m4 (split Hale) m60 m101 m103
126 st m15 m31 m35 m57 m66 m116
Amsterdam m104 bx6 bx15 m100 m104
Westside m10 m16/34 m27/50,m30 m42 m72 m79 m86 m96 m102 x 90 x 92
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NEXT>10101
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:42 1998
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In Reply to: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
In Reply to: [8]Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
subway-buff on February 15, 1998 at 17:54:43:
I am also doing Lenox/White Plains. This menas I will have done the
entire mainline IRT. Any Trivia/old photos would be appreciated. Adam
Weiss will be providing photography and assistance along with his
father.
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NEXT>9898
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Kisseena Golf Course posted by J Hayes
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kisseena Golf Course
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:43 1998
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In Reply to: Kisseena Golf Course posted by J Hayes on February 15,
In Reply to: [8]Kisseena Golf Course posted by J Hayes on February 15,
1998 at 10:29:09:
Sorry, I don't know whether dirt from subway excavations was used to
build the Kissena Golf Course. I suspect not, however, as Flushing
Meadows park is closer to the nearest IND lines (and why transport
dirt longer than necessary?) But there is an interesting
transportation-related feature of the course. Part of the Kissena
corridor park, it was built on the right-of-way of the Central Branch
railroad, which originally ran from Flushing to Babylon. The LIRR's
Hempstead line and the Montauk line's track from Bethpage to Babylon
are other remants of this railroad.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kiss George's Rear (Yankee Stadium)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:45 1998
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In Reply to: Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
In Reply to: [7]Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 14, 1998 at 09:00:08:
In my opinion, Steinbrenner is a blabbering fool. What I don't
understand is how this moron gets away with it! Yankee Stadium is the
greatest ballpark in the major leagues (on a par with Wrigley and
Fenway) and I have NEVER had trouble reaching it - either by transit
or by automobile. The neighborhood is simply not so awful, and
sometimes I really do think he's a racist pig who is playing the "race
card" in reverse to scare his fans and the City into giving him what
he wants.
My solution is this: for the price of a new West Side stadium et al,
WHY NOT JUST BUY THE TEAM FROM THIS PIG??? I'm sure he'll sell if the
price is right, and New Yorkers will "own" the team a la the manner in
which Green Bay and its residents "own" the Packers.
Comments?
P.S. - I wholeheartedly agree with the Metro-North Hudson line station
idea. This would also allow Amtrak to run "stadium special" trains
from way upstate, where there is a sizable Yankee fan contingent. The
ferry also could accompolish these functions, assuming service would
not operate solely from Manhattan.
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NEXT>10144
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>When will NJT begin receiving the new LRVs to replace the PCC trolley
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:47 1998
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When will NJT begin receiving the new LRVs to replace the PCC trolley
When will NJT begin receiving the new LRVs to replace the PCC trolley
cars on the Newark Subway? Have they already been ordered, or has NJT
already awarded the contract to a manufacturer?
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NEXT>10049
PREVIOUS>10029
POSTER>Why do the #9 and Z trains exist if they are literally a duplication
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:49 1998
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Why do the #9 and Z trains exist if they are literally a duplication
Why do the #9 and Z trains exist if they are literally a duplication
of a full-time line (1-9 and J-Z)? Is the skip-stop service really as
effective as "real" express service? If the two rush-hour clones of
the full-time lines were created to increase service, why not just
increase service on the #1 and the J?
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NEXT>10053
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:50 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Albert on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line posted by Albert on February
15, 1998 at 00:34:18:
Huh?? The 7 train runs along 42nd Street in Manhattan, it has no 33rd
or 40th Street stations. Anybody know what line is used for the
opening of the show?
Josh
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NEXT>10055
PREVIOUS>10047
POSTER>In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:51 1998
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In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
at 11:22:54:
There was some discussion recently on nyc.transit regarding the
usefulness of the 1/9 skip-stop service. The consensus seemed to be
that the service saved some time, but nothing earthshattering.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Kiss George's Rear (Yankee Stadium) posted by Will
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kiss George's Rear (Let's Go METS!)
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:52 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Kiss George's Rear (Yankee Stadium) posted by Will
In Reply to: [8]Re: Kiss George's Rear (Yankee Stadium) posted by Will
on February 16, 1998 at 09:50:10:
About the 1/2 Billion that the Mets would like for their new stadium:
They're not threatening a move to another city if it doesn't get
built. Even the city admits that Shea Stadium is not on a par with
many of the other stadiums in the league. The new shea would be built
accross the Parking lot from the existing stadium.
Of course, this is al just proposals now, and nothing is set in stone.
-Hank
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NEXT>10087
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What is OPTO?
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:54 1998
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In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
at 13:12:15:
Just to clear things up a bit:
OPTO is in effet on the Franklin Shuttle (all Times), the 42st Shuttle
(all times, however, there are two operators on this line, due to the
difficulty of changing ends at Times Square)
B-West End SHuttle (36st/Pacific St and Coney Island late nights)
5-Dyre Ave Shuttle (E180st-Dyre Ave Late nights and (weekends starting
3/16)
S-Rockaway Shuttle (Broad Channel and Rockaway Park, All Times)
Lefferts Shuttle (Euclid Ave and Lefferts Blvd, Late Nights)
Cominjg soon to:
C-Weekends (WTC-168st)
G-Entire route, I'm not sure of the hours
I may have left out 1 or 2.
-Hank
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NEXT>9804
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: #7 line viaduct posted by Frank Gatazka on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: #7 line viaduct
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:55 1998
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In Reply to: Re: #7 line viaduct posted by Frank Gatazka on
In Reply to: [8]Re: #7 line viaduct posted by Frank Gatazka on
February 13, 1998 at 16:16:46:
Queens Blvd. is so wide - how wide is it? - that building the Queens
IND subway was a piece of cake. Of course, that whole area was largely
undeveloped at that time. Considering how overbuilt the IND lines were
in general (mezzanines at local stations, 660-foot platforms, etc.),
it makes you wonder if they ever thought about building the Queens
line with six tracks, taking advantage of the extra width of Queens
Blvd (although they would have had a problem with that under
Broadway). Six tracks on that line would sure come in handy today.
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NEXT>10062
PREVIOUS>10048
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
Greenberger on February 15, 1998 at 23:34:47:
I'm sure you're referring to the tracks out of Chambers St. which used
to lead to the Manhattan Bridge. Williamsburg Bridge-bound J/M/Z
trains enter Chambers St. on the easternmost track. After leaving
Chambers St., , they switch over two tracks and continue onto Canal
St. Without this maneuver, they would reach a dead end where the
connection to Manhattan Bridge was severed in Nov. 1967., possibly
even crashing into any trains which might be stored there.
I have to admit I also like the express run between 96th and Chambers
on the 2 and 3. They actually even hit 40 mph in a few locations. The
stretch between 34th and 14th Sts. is interesting - we're talking
ruler-straight track. You can see clear down past 18th St when heading
downtown. One thing puzzles me: every downtown express I have ever
ridden on that stretch is flying when it hits 50th St., slows down
about halfway through 50th St, then crawls the rest of the way to
Times Square regardless of the time of day. Meanwhile, adjacent locals
zip along. Any ideas on why this is so?
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NEXT>10063
PREVIOUS>10002
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:58 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998
at 16:34:24:
Fulton St. on the J line is also closed on weekends.
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NEXT>10092
PREVIOUS>10049
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:52:59 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Peter Rosa on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: Z and #9 train posted by Peter Rosa on February
16, 1998 at 12:27:38:
It may be more psychological but I guess if you're a commuter from the
Bronx or Jamaica & you're bypassing stations on the #9 or Z train,
it's certainly worth the effort to have skip-stop service. Chicago &
Philadelphia also has several lines with skip-stop service.
Even on some express lines such as 8 Av. between 42 St. & Chambers St.
you don't save that much time, skipping only a few stations. But you
still feel good if you've arrived several minutes earlier. Over years
of commuting it adds up.
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NEXT>10059
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>This is a Timse Square, 1 line downtown. It is a blinking white only
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Another Strange IRT Signal
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:00 1998
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This is a Timse Square, 1 line downtown. It is a blinking white only
This is a Timse Square, 1 line downtown. It is a blinking white only
signal. Under it is a yellow plate WD with a speed under it. I also
found one outside Atlantic Brooklyn IRT. Is this the same as a ST or
GT signal? There was a regular signal further "down" the track from
this one at Times Square but not Atlantic.
I also made a discovery on the N/R train- I am not saying which
station-you'll have to wait for the web page there is a mosaic to a
church with Old English Font Letters and a "stained glass Window"(one
color) on either side of this sign). It is on a mezzanine.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Kiss George's Rear (Let's Go METS!) posted by Hank
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>(Let's Go METS!)
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:02 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Kiss George's Rear (Let's Go METS!) posted by Hank
In Reply to: [7]Re: Kiss George's Rear (Let's Go METS!) posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 16, 1998 at 12:30:12:
Several years ago, the Mets threatened to move to Nassau County if the
city did not build a new stadium, parking garages, etc. They actually
opened negotiations with the Nassau County executive and began
compiling a list of sites.
They haven't made any threats lately. I guess if your team stinks and
the Mayor is a Yankee fan, extortion has its limits. But if their
record continues to improve, WATCH OUT.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Where does Septa dispatch The Broad street line and is the channel
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Another Septa question
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:03 1998
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Where does Septa dispatch The Broad street line and is the channel
Where does Septa dispatch The Broad street line and is the channel
they dispatch on 31.100 ?.
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NEXT>10061
PREVIOUS>10056
POSTER>In Reply to: Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Another Strange IRT Signal
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:05 1998
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In Reply to: Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
In Reply to: [7]Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
February 16, 1998 at 14:38:46:
the light you talk bout is called a speed detector signal. IT normally
is dark. When a train is going to go over a switch in the reverse
position,meaning a diversion route, this signals light and tell the
trainoperator that speed enforcement is in effect. These lights will
stay steady if speed is within the allowable speed. If train begins to
move faster than the posted speed these signals begin to flash.If
train continues to accelerate the breakes will be applied via a
tripping device under the train
l
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NEXT>10069
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:07 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
In Reply to: [7]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
Rosa on February 13, 1998 at 21:48:43:
I have done extensive reading/research on the building of IRT and of
Pennsylvania Station. I have never read anything about the design of
this station, or anything that would support the theory that it was
designed to discourage riders from local-express switches. (I have
heard some people conjecture that is was not originally an express
station, however.) Can you tell me where you found that information?
(I'm certainly not doubting you--I'm just curious.) Thanks.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10059
POSTER>In Reply to: Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Another Strange IRT Signal
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:08 1998
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In Reply to: Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
In Reply to: [8]Another Strange IRT Signal posted by subway-buff on
February 16, 1998 at 14:38:46:
WD stands for Wheel Detector. It's operation & function are as
explained in the posting below
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NEXT>10096
PREVIOUS>10053
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Joshua Caesar on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:09 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Joshua Caesar on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Favorite subway line posted by Joshua Caesar on
February 16, 1998 at 12:07:43:
Albert was most likely refering to the Queens section of the 7 line
were there is a 33st and 40st station.
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NEXT>10130
PREVIOUS>10054
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIR trains posted by Reggie on February 14, 1998
at 16:34:24:
doesn't path close povmona ave station on weekends and late at night
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Path Pavonia/Newport station, was Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:13 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIR trains posted by faxman on February 16, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIR trains posted by faxman on February 16, 1998
at 18:29:47:
If you mean "Pavonia" Ave., not since the mid 1980s when the Newport
Mall, office, and residential towers complex opened has the station
been closed overnight. In fact it is now one of PATH's busiest
stations at all times of the day, and accounted for the largest
increase in passenger traffic last year of all of PATH's stations.
They also renamed the station to "Pavonia/Newport" around the time the
mall opened. (The "Pavonia" name is sort of misleading and confusing
anyway. Pavonia Av. is a strange street. It has two sections, running
east-west starting close to Journal Square, and then it is interrupted
by the turnpike and the "palisade" hill. It then resumes on the east
side of the Newport Mall for about 1 block outside the office
complex.)
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NEXT>10104
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:15 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
In Reply to: [7]Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
posted by subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 21:10:50:
Is this talking about the Brooklyn Museum station? By "Eastern
Parkway", i assumed it meant Franklin Av.
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NEXT>10070
PREVIOUS>10004
POSTER>Almost everytime I am riding
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Buzzing Sound on R-68's
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:17 1998
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Almost everytime I am riding on a D-train, I always heat this buzzing
Almost everytime I am riding on a D-train, I always heat this buzzing
sound over the PA, especially when the train is going across the
Manhattan Bridge. Why is this so? Am I the only one to hear this?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: S40 Howland Hook Container Port Extension posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: S40 Howland Hook Container Port Extension ANOTHER REQUEST
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:18 1998
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In Reply to: S40 Howland Hook Container Port Extension posted by
In Reply to: [8]S40 Howland Hook Container Port Extension posted by
Steve L on February 13, 1998 at 00:39:56:
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NEXT>9859
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The name of car type posted by Dan Schwartz on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The name of car type
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:19 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The name of car type posted by Dan Schwartz on
In Reply to: [7]Re: The name of car type posted by Dan Schwartz on
February 14, 1998 at 15:26:57:
My family is the same way. They are completely tuned out of the
subway, even though they use it almost every day. Just a few examples:
MY MOTHER: To my mother, the R-32s are "those trains that look like
huge cheese graters". The R-68s and R-44s are "those trains that look
like PATH cars with orange and yellow seats", and back in the 60s, the
RR used to use "rusty trains with pink seats".
MY FATHER: According to him, all the R-40 slants are "B trains" and
all the redbirds are "#2 trains". This past Christmas, while watching
The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three with the family, referring to the
R-21 with the silver and blue paint job, he said to me, "That train
looks fairly new, just like the one I rode yesterday afternoon".
And the gold metal winner of them all: MY GRANDMOTHER THINKS THE
REDBIRDS ARE BRAND NEW!
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NEXT>10082
PREVIOUS>10060
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:21 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by
subway-buff on February 14, 1998 at 19:21:34:
It sounds like a good explanation and I will never forgive them for
designing it that way. All I know is I have the worst luck. If I am on
the express platform a local appears and visa-versa. Since I no longer
possess sprint speed to run down and up the underpass I am out of luck
although I could think of stronger language.
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NEXT>10071
PREVIOUS>10066
POSTER>In Reply to: Buzzing Sound
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:22 1998
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In Reply to: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by David L. on February
In Reply to: [8]Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by David L. on February
16, 1998 at 20:50:48:
It's nothing unusual. Most likely it's just a bad connection to the
speaker. It's also possible interference from the flouresecent(sp?)
lights on the train, and it was repaired with unshielded parts...put
your walkman next to a flouresant, even with a tape playing, you get
that same interference.
-Hank
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NEXT>10074
PREVIOUS>10070
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Buzzing Sound
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:23 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by Hank Eisenstein
In Reply to: [8]Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by Hank Eisenstein
on February 16, 1998 at 22:24:32:
Of course the cynic in all of us says that this is due to poor design
/ components. PA noise is caused by a number of things. Maybe it *IS*
interference from the lights, but if the PA system designers did their
homework, this wouldn't be an issue.
My guess for this was that it was bad filter caps in the power supply,
since this is both a critical area, and a sensitive one too. Ever have
a radio, usually old, that hummed loudly?? Bad filter. Given the heat
swings, voltage swings, dirt, and vibration the PA system gets, it's
not surpriseing. Of course if the amp desinger did his homework...
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NEXT>10081
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:25 1998
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In Reply to: Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Dan Schwartz on February 14, 1998 at 01:57:32:
Dan--
This is directly from the MTA-NYCT web site, subway service diversions
area.
------------------------------------------------------------
B and C lines Switch Places Above 145 St (Uptown and Bronx).
Effective Sunday, March 1, 1998
B service will travel to Bedford Park Blvd during rush hours and will
travel to 145 St middays and evenings until 9 p.m.
C service will travel to 168 St until 11 p.m. nightly.
Service below 145 St will not change.
Weekday Service Operates Later to Brooklyn
Effective Monday, March 2, 1998, C Local service to Euclid Av will
operate until approximately 10 p.m. A Express service to Euclid Av
will
also operate until approximately 10 p.m.
-------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I base my assumption on. If C service will operate an
extra hour to Euclid weekday evenings, why go to WTC after that point?
Ending C service would make sense.
Michael
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NEXT>10089
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by subway-buff
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N train service disruption!
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:26 1998
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In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by subway-buff
In Reply to: [8]Re: N train service disruption! posted by subway-buff
on February 15, 1998 at 19:35:54:
Folks
No one answered Adam's question: What happens if there is tunnel work
AFTER February 22?
Whenever there is tunnel work now, all northbound trains discharge
passengers at Times Square, then go to 57th Street and turn around.
Southbound, they start picking up passengers at 49th Street, so the
57th Street station is closed.
Why does the MTA do this? And do I presume correctly that after
February 22, whenever there is tunnel work, the N and R will operate
to 57th Street so they can connect with the shuttle?
Michael
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10071
POSTER>In Reply to: Buzzing Sound
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Buzzing Sound on R-68's
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:28 1998
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In Reply to: Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by David L. on February
In Reply to: [8]Buzzing Sound on R-68's posted by David L. on February
16, 1998 at 20:50:48:
Sorry Hank & Phil but it's not quite that simple. It is a lousy design
with the COMCO PA Equipment but it's not confined to the R-68.
However, by far, the R-68 has the worst problem. The problem has
existed for as long as I can remember and engineering has been working
on it for years. It appears to be a combination of things. It occurs
in roughly the same location regardless of the train. Shutting the
carbody lights eliminates it but it is not known is it's the converter
or the inverter ballast. Since location in the tunnel is a factor, we
feel it's reflected and not due to a bad ground. Filtering does not
work. It's also sensative to master controller position and is worse
in the cab. At this point I'm open to suggestions.
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NEXT>10076
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>On Sunday as I was leaving Green Acres mall I saw a JFK flyer bus from
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:30 1998
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On Sunday as I was leaving Green Acres mall I saw a JFK flyer bus from
On Sunday as I was leaving Green Acres mall I saw a JFK flyer bus from
the MTA bus service. Another feeble attempt to provide mass transit to
the New York airports. I can remember in the late 80's the "QT
Express" that provided service from 21St-Queensbridge to LaGuardia
airport and the more succesful M60. It amazes me that as New York City
approaches the 21 century we still do not have a good mass transit
connection to our airports that are convenient. The greatest city in
the world, with the greatest transit service in the world, in a city
where everyone has a office or convention related to their business.
One of the simpliest things that can work with little community
protest (haha) would be a extension of the subway a line into the
airport and then rebuild the former Rockaway line to the LIRR for a
fast transfer into the city. Laguardia would be trickier because area
residents would protest any extensions of the N line el in their
neighborhoods. It seems as if this may be a conspiracy on the part of
the taxi or auto industry.
Mass transit will never work if people do not find in more convenient
that auto or taxi. Unlike streetcars of the past which ran down the
narrowiest of streets to bring people door to door like in the Lower
East Side of the city or South Philadelphia. Transit is trying to
compete by letting late night bus customers get off at safe corners,
etc. But its no dollar jitney van which will take you from subway
entrance to door step. But even with great bus services like the M60,
the buses are standard buses which really cannot hold to much luggage
without a bottleneck occuring and blockage of aisles. Or the high
costs and time it takes to build new extensions of the subway. How
long has it took to go from 57St to Queensplaza? A lot longer than it
took to go from City Hall to 96St!
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NEXT>10095
PREVIOUS>10075
POSTER>In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:31 1998
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In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
In Reply to: [7]JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
February 17, 1998 at 00:21:27:
Since the M60 seems to be used by many people travelling to LaGuardia,
why doesn't the Transit Authority either modify the busses assigned to
that line, or purchase busses with luggage racks, like the ones used
on the NJ Transit Airlink bus?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>March 1st deadline?Westside depot-Walnut Depot
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:33 1998
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In Reply to: Re: What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going
In Reply to: [8]Re: What depots are Manhattan & Bronx routes are going
to after West Side depot opens March 1st. posted by Steve L on
February 16, 1998 at 01:28:04:
While speaking to a revenue supervisor and TWU chairman of Amsterdam
depot, it is seriously rumored that Westside will not be ready by
March 1. However Walnut must vacate the facilities in the South Bronx
by the 1st. In the event this happens it will be a nightmare getting
to squeeze all the Walnut buses in existing Mabstoa facilties in the
Bronx and upper Manhattan, and paying the drivers extra running time
to get to thier lines from whatever depot. I will report the latest
news as it comes in.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standardsHudson bridge
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:34 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 12, 1998 at 21:11:36:
Believe it or not, somebody actually has proposed that senario, so
that the NJT-run Metro-North trains from Suffern& north would run
across the Hudson and link up with the Hudson Line- I do believe there
is a freight line that runs in the area which could be utilized- this
way the MTA could end its contracts with NJT for the Port Jervis &
Pascack Valley lines and also give those folks a one seat ride into
Manhattan-The only problem of course being MONEY...
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NEXT>10094
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:36 1998
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In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
In Reply to: [7]JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
February 17, 1998 at 00:21:27:
Funny you should meantion Bottle Neck on a bus. This past weekend
without a car I had to carry 3 medium suit case size packages to work.
Needless to say at that moment I did not have access to cash for car
service. I took the bus.
The bus pulls up and it is one of the older express buses (2x2
seating) with a very small isle. I board and pay my fare with no
comment from the buss driver. I wanted to move to the back of the bus
but by the time where at the next stop he yells to me that this is a
public bus and I am blocking the isle then he calls out the door to
(Coney Is. Ave and Kings Hwy) the supervisor that is at the corner
telling him "This guy is blocking the isle and I want him off".
Meanwile other customers on the bus are yelling back "he is moving to
the back".
I was allowed to stay on the bus and my transfer bus the driver asked
me up front if I would be able NOT to block the isle before I paid my
fare (much less crowded bus too).
I can just imagine what it would be like on the M60 even with a
regular local bus.
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NEXT>9897
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The Third Avenue El posted by Dan Lawrence on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The Third Avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:37 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The Third Avenue El posted by Dan Lawrence on
In Reply to: [7]Re: The Third Avenue El posted by Dan Lawrence on
February 15, 1998 at 22:20:52:
Not so simple, the elevateds, We got to file environmental impact
reports, go thru NIMBYism, Community Boards, idiots who like open sky
and mass tranportation Haters, Going thru all those Hurdles, now where
are we going to find the money. I'm just as nostalgic as you are
abpout our old Elevated system but ........... you know, whats past is
past.
Go to Chicago if you want Elevated Subways.
Foti-
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NEXT>9788
PREVIOUS>10072
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St.
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:38 1998
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In Reply to: Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: B and C lines switching north of 145 St. posted by
Andrew Huie on February 15, 1998 at 15:16:49:
Not I,
Foti-
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NEXT>10090
PREVIOUS>10069
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
In Reply to: [8]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
on February 16, 1998 at 22:03:37:
George, I think you've experienced the other reason why the station is
designed with split platforms. I think, although I don't really know,
that the designers were concerned that large crowds of people coming
from Penn Station would overcrowd whichever train, express or local,
got into the station first. The split platform design more or less
forces riders to choose express or local platforms, and therefore
reduces the potential congestion. This would especially be true for
northbound service towards Times Square.
I know that there are a number of problems with this theory, e.g. why
weren't the GCT station platforms built this way. There is a lot of
room to hypothesize. Still, I like it.
--mhg
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NEXT>10125
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:43 1998
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In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
In Reply to: [8]Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
Rail) posted by Dan Lawrence on February 13, 1998 at 23:52:14:
The problem, Gentlemen, is not with permission to run trains into the
airports - of course that is permitted. It is the use of the $3 gate
tax to build it. If this is used, it is not permitted to build stops
outside the airport except at the actual destination (i.e. no
commuting). The reason for this is the higway and airports lobbies (do
your bow or curtsey of obiesance to them here).
New York, which has a city budget larger than the budget for all of
the state of Pennsylvania (I believe New York City's budget is over
$45 billion - perhaps Mr. Littlefield can supply us the correct
number), is too busy supporting enormous welfare parasite classes on
both ends of the spectrum - doctors and crackheads - to actually
consider paying for this itself (for example, 2 million NYC welfare
cases at $5000 a head of medical care, cash payments, housing
subsidies, etc. is $10 billion - $5000 per head is probably low).
Instead, they went whining to the federal government to pony up
through the gate tax, which foisted the conditions of the use of the
tax on all of us in return as a present to the airport and highways
lobbies. Plus, NYC has the uniquely stupid and blockheaded Port
Authority to deal with when it comes to the airports.
It is a fact that every single airport with rail connections apart
from New York built them as part of their larger rail system (Chicago,
BWI, Philly, Washington, Cleveland, etc.).
This is a unique New York problem. Its solution, as I keep saying, is
to find a new strongman like Robert Moses to get things done by
grabbing monetary resources and by smashing his way through the laws,
rules, regulations and red tape with a fist of iron. Otherwise,
nothing of any significance will ever again be built in New York City
in an efficient, inexpensive and timely manner. And all new proposals
will go to the same grave where the scattered remains of the Westway
project, the 2nd Ave. Subway, the Nassau Expressway, the JFK single
terminal, and various other sorely needed and never built New York
projects rest in peace.
Andy Byler
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NEXT>9855
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Kiss George's Rear
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:45 1998
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In Reply to: Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
In Reply to: [7]Kiss George's Rear posted by Larry Littlefield on
February 14, 1998 at 09:00:08:
Before the strike I was a big fan. I have even walked to Yankee
Stadium from Grand Central Station.(No big deal) I don't know a single
true fan in any major league city that has gone to a game since they
canceled the World Series.
I am not opposed to a "New Yankee Stadium" but I resent the fact that
they want to build it with city money so that corportations can pay a
fortune for the status of luxury boxes that will be empty half the
time while real fans will be shut out. A new stadium must be designed
to accomodate the people who are paying for it.
If the stadium is not up to scratch, They could do what they did in
Chicago and build a new one across the street in the ball fields,
transfering the sacred dirt from the original. On the sight of the old
stadium could be a multi-level parking garage with ramps leading
directly to the adjacent highway. There would be about a billion
dollars left over for MetroNorth service to the stadium during games
and to spark the economy of the surounding neighborhood.
If the stadium is packed, Steinbrenner will argue that he brings
revenu to the city. If the stadium is empty, he will argue, as he did,
that "fans" wont pay to see a game in a neigborhood that has blacks or
hispanics. Both of these arguements are perverse. The problem is that
people care and George uses peoples emotional attachments to bully
them. How can the people of this city expect to get a fair exchange
from a bully???
I'll be damned if my tax dollars are going to build a stadium
exclusivly for Rich Corperations, or for Suburbanites or for Car
Owners. Then he could change the name of the team to The RICH
WESTCHESTER YANKEES, or the CORPORATE AMERICA YANKEES or the HARDROCK
CAFE/DISNEY YANKEES. Sonds lame?? It's already happened. Anyone from
the Bronx or NYC who rides the subway and has gone to a game since the
strike has fallen for it. I wouldn't give the price of a bleacher seat
to those groups that have nothing to do with New York. Likewise I
wouldn't give the price of a cup of coffee to STARBUCKS. They are
taking your money and laughing at you! The first thing the strike
should have taught "the fans" is that baseball doesn't give a damn
about us, so why should we give a damn about baseball. Baseball has
treated the fans horribly and "the fans" ask for more. Steinbrenner is
not stupid, what reason does he have to NOT push the boundries of that
abuse???
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NEXT>10106
PREVIOUS>10031
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!...... posted by Michael
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:47 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!...... posted by Michael
In Reply to: [7]Re: Read This Scenario !!!...... posted by Michael
Lyons on February 15, 1998 at 18:39:15:
I have only been on a train that didn't platfrom on the long end not
the short end. Also remember the R44/46 - R68/681's stop at the 10 car
sign with 8 cars.
When they didn't platform and the head car went past the marker, the
train operator gave one long buzz on the buzzer (R38) and annouced
over the PA "We DIDN'T PLATFORM, DON'T OPEN DON'T OPEN". I assume the
conductor noticed he was long on the sign board. At that point the
train operator came out of the closet and check the first door, while
we were past the station there was a ledge at the first door and the
second was fine. He told the conductor he would stand in front of the
first door and for him to open. I don't know if this was proper
procedure but that is what they did. I assume on a long overshoot they
always just open the back half and allow customers to walk through but
what do you do on the newer cars release all the end doors?? I think
that is only allowed in an emergancy?
Hmmm.. wonder what the rule book says...
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NEXT>10107
PREVIOUS>10005
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Reggie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:51 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Reggie on February 16,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Z and #9 train posted by Reggie on February 16,
1998 at 13:34:25:
Chicago no longer runs skip-stop service on any of its L lines. The
only
remaining express service is on the north side (red/brown/purple
lines).
However, in Chicago, the stations tend to be further apart than in New
York (about 1 mile on most lines), and thus all rapid tranisit service
is
"express" service. The busses provide the "local" service in many
cases.
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NEXT>10145
PREVIOUS>10051
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What is OPTO?
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:52 1998
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In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
at 13:12:15:
Umm the Franklin Ave Shuttle (S) is OPTO. It might even be full time
OPTO, haven't noticed during rush hour.
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NEXT>10240
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standardsHudson bridge posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>West of Hudson Metro-North (Was Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards)
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:54 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standardsHudson bridge posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standardsHudson bridge posted by
Lou from Middletown on February 17, 1998 at 09:24:10:
If Metro-North would take sole control of the New York portions of the
lines, would NJT shut down its (the NJ) portion of the lines? Maybe,
but it doesn't seem so.
It sounds like a great idea to have a one-seat ride into midtown
Manhattan, but 1) would the NY commuters get into town significantly
faster?
2) won't this proposal result in an expensive duplication (see above),
wasting money on capital projects of low priority that could better be
spent on needed maintenance and more high-priority service
improvements?
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NEXT>9911
PREVIOUS>10073
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by Mike K on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N train service disruption!
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:55 1998
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In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by Mike K on
In Reply to: [8]Re: N train service disruption! posted by Mike K on
February 16, 1998 at 23:16:32:
Now, wait a minute. I'm assuming that the typical N/R trackwork is
under the East River. If that's the case, why aren't trains turned at
Lex? According to Peter Dougherty's track map, there's a switch just
west of Lex.
Alternatively, why not have some N/R trains become 63rd Street
shuttles (after 2/22)? There seems to be no advantage in forcing
everyone who wants to continue to change trains when some trains could
be easily routed through.
David
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NEXT>10091
PREVIOUS>10082
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
In Reply to: [8]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by George
on February 16, 1998 at 22:03:37:
I rarely use the station (I'm rarely in NYC at all, but that's a
different story), but I seem to remember an electronic display on the
uptown local platform by the 34th Street turnstiles that does
occasionally announce the next arriving train. You could wait by the
sign and, if it announces an express, cross under. My guess is you'd
have about a minute to get across before the express arrives.
Of course, that's assuming the sign is actually used.
David
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NEXT>10146
PREVIOUS>10090
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by John
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:53:57 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by John
In Reply to: [8]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by John
Stewart on February 16, 1998 at 17:13:43:
I got my information on the design of the IRT and IND stations from
postings on nyc.transit. This unusual design does make sense if viewed
as a means of discouraging local-express transfers, but otherwise
would be fairly pointless.
There's no evidence I've ever heard to the effect that the stations
were local-only.
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NEXT>10098
PREVIOUS>10055
POSTER>In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:00 1998
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In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
at 11:22:54:
Calling the alternate 1 train the 9 and the alternate J train the Z is
just to make it simple to see which train is pulling into the station.
The 9 is just a 1 that stops at (what otherwise might be called) "B"
stations on a skip-stop line, the 1 stopping at "A" stations. They
could have called them 1 and 1', J and J', or 1A and 1B, J1 and J2,
but the 9 and Z are just easier to remember.
Anyway, skip stop service allows trains to move faster because they
don't stop as often. The "A"-only and "B"-only stations get service
every 6 minutes and the AB-both stations get service every 3 minutes
(for 3 minute service). If there are enough 6-minute service stations
then service is improved for everyone, since even though a person
waits (on average) twice as long, the train has fewer times when it
slows down, waits for passengers for 15 seconds, and speeds up. The
J/Z seems to have enough stations affected to make it really
worthwhile. The 1/9 has only 7 (4 1'ers and 3 9ers) which does not
seem seem like enough to me. I would think that 191 St. and 181 St.
could be 1- or 9-only stations also.
Final thought: In the old days rush hour (and midday) service was --
1/2 the trains went to 242 St and the other half went to 137 St.
Someone must have realized that faster but same-frequency (1/2 the
scheduled trains) service could be achieved with the skip-stop
service, and maybe not too many more trains and staff would be
required. When skip-stop started, it ran rush hours and middays, then
was cut out of middays, but luckily they never went back to short 137
St. runs.
The J/Z has had skip-stop service for at least 40 years if not more.
Originally it was AM only and consisted of the 15-Jamaica Express (A
stations) and the 15-Jamaica Local (B stations). I personally am glad
they extended it to PM hours also. Calling it the J and Z (and 1 and
9) seems inspired.
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NEXT>10128
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by David J.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N and R train service disruption!
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:02 1998
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In Reply to: Re: N train service disruption! posted by David J.
In Reply to: [7]Re: N train service disruption! posted by David J.
Greenberger on February 17, 1998 at 11:39:16:
I think the work being done is between 49 St and Lexington Avenue.
Otherwise they would have plenty of room to run trains to at least 57
St, since that has been a turnaround for decades. It is slightly
possible that they are ending the line at TS to avoid there being
people who get to 57 St. and discover that they have to go back to
Times Sq. or 34 St. to get anywhere and getting really confused or
angry. This can't have to do with the 63 St connection in Queens,
since the connection is east of Queens Plaza. It may have to do with
switch tracks at 57 St-7th Ave. to be used by the shuttle next week.
When I was there on Presidents' Day, there were a LOT of cranky people
getting off at 42 St. The train I was on stayed a long time at 34 St.
and the conductor mentioned about 5 times that Times Sq was to be the
last stop. But no one got off and lots were grumbling at 42 St. The
Astoria people, at least, had it easy, just take the 7. I was asked by
others 1) how to get to 57 St., 2) how to get to 59 & Lex. It seems
that once you are approached by someone asking for help, it attracts a
crowd. The easy answer to 1) was "You should have changed at 34
Street," and to 2) was "You should have changed at 14 Street."
Needless to say, I avoided giving those two answers.
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NEXT>10103
PREVIOUS>10079
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:03 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on February 17, 1998 at 09:41:38:
I would have had the bus driver's badge number or name and reported
him at once. This is improper customer service and there's no excuse
for it. Like the bus driver at your transfer point, he could have told
you that you can't block the aisle (hazard, etc) before getting on the
bus and could have asked if this was possible before paying your fare.
--Mark
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NEXT>10099
PREVIOUS>10076
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:04 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
February 17, 1998 at 00:38:09:
An even more immediate solution would be to remove a few seats to
serve as a luggage area.
--Mark
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NEXT>10117
PREVIOUS>10062
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Michael Lyons on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by Michael Lyons on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line posted by Michael Lyons on
February 16, 1998 at 18:14:56:
But the #7 is elevated in Queens. I'm talking about the subway tracks
that they show for a couple of seconds. The pillars are so close
together it has that IRT look. But which one and where?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Renovated Stations
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:07 1998
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In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
In Reply to: [8]JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
February 17, 1998 at 00:21:27:
I'm sure everyone has seen some of the newly renovated stations
throughout the subway system (Canal St. on the A, Canal St. on the
N,R, 110 Cathedral Pkwy on the A, etc.). Does anyone know what
additional stations have been/or are currently being renovated and
what scheme is being employed to determine what stations are done
first? I know that Union Square Station is really torn up right now,
as is the 14 st. on the A,C,E,L.
-Michael
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NEXT>10142
PREVIOUS>10092
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:08 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Z and #9 train posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Z and #9 train posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 17, 1998 at 12:18:45:
Since the 9 and the Z trains are rush-hour only, I wonder why the TA
(oops, NYCT) doesn't use its own convention of putting the '9' and the
'Z' in a diamond, instead of a circle. The diamond is defined on
subway maps as rush-hour only service. So the station overhead signs
would be:
(1)/ and (J)/
Also the 9 and Z diamonds should appear on the front/side roll signs
as they do for 5 and 6 service.
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NEXT>10127
PREVIOUS>10095
POSTER>In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:09 1998
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In Reply to: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
In Reply to: [7]JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Fernando Perez on
February 17, 1998 at 00:21:27:
I don't know if you'd call this a conspiracy, but the Port Authority
makes most of its profits on airport parking, and uses that money to
pay for the airport. The joke is if the PA had to eliminate the least
profitable mode from the airport, it would be the airplanes. The
parking is so profitable that the airports generate huge surpluses.
These surpluses are used to keep the PATH fare ($1.00 vs. $1.50 for
NYC Transit) and the PA bridges and tunnels ($4.00 one way vs. $3.50
each way for TBTA) low. The Port Authority could build these
connections right now, but that would mean raising PATH fares and
tolls to NYC levels, and competing with its own parking facilities.
The purpose of the light rail is to connect the terminals with
addional parking fields. The connection to Jamaica and Howard Beach is
a PR move, and don't be surprised if the PA runs out of money and
these connections never happen.
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NEXT>10137
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Getting around NYC posted by Todd Glickman on
February 12, 1998 at 13:33:47:
Does anyone know if a book on NYC subwat "personalities" would be of
intrest?
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NEXT>9910
PREVIOUS>10043
POSTER>In Reply to: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:12 1998
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In Reply to: Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
In Reply to: [8]Line by Line- Trivia & Photo Request posted by
subway-buff on February 15, 1998 at 17:54:43:
Do you know where we could get more information about the different
subway "personalities"?
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NEXT>10134
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Me and my girlfriend will be going for the world record for fastest
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>World record
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:13 1998
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Me and my girlfriend will be going for the world record for fastest
Me and my girlfriend will be going for the world record for fastest
time to travel to every subway station.....the record is 25 hrs 11
min.....I was wondering if anyone got any tips for us....we will be
going for it on feb.24.
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NEXT>10180
PREVIOUS>10094
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:16 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Lou
from Brooklyn on February 17, 1998 at 09:41:38:
At least the PA buses used between the airport terminals and Howard
Beach station do have wide aisles and places for luggage, as well as
wide doors, making them fairly easy to use for passengers arriving at
JFK with luggage. The ride from the main terminals is still kind of
long, but from Tower Air it is pretty quick - providing you get a bus
heading back from the main terminals to the subway, not one going from
the subway to the main terminals. Going to the airport (with luggage)
is more problematic, because of the need to cross over from the S/B to
the N/B platform to get the bus.
How much would it cost to install an overpass, with elevators, at the
north end of Howard Beach station? That in itself would make the
current transit access much more usable, without any new rail-line
construction.
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NEXT>9876
PREVIOUS>10065
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:17 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
In Reply to: [8]Re: Eastern Parkway IRT Brooklyn- Second Station ?
posted by Eric B on February 14, 1998 at 20:42:11:
The Eastern Pkwy-Bklyn Museum station had an entrance/exit at the west
end which has since been closed. The entrance was on the south side of
Eastern Pkwy some distance east of the library. It has been covered
over by a flat slab of concrete and is now behind a fence. I used this
entrance as a child. The connection to the Franklin Av. shuttle is
supposed to be from the Franklin Av. station.
Bob Sklar
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NEXT>10112
PREVIOUS>10038
POSTER>Did anyone else hear the story about the women who were arrested for
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:19 1998
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Did anyone else hear the story about the women who were arrested for
Did anyone else hear the story about the women who were arrested for
"farebeating" one night last week (?) at the Gun Hill Rd. station on
the Dyre Ave. line? It seems they had no tokens or Metrocards, but did
have cash. They went through the unlocked gate in hopes of finding
someone to sell them tokens (OK, foolish, but...). Instead, they were
arrested by THREE undercover cops. Apparently, these police officers
patrol the line nightly, going from one to another of the 5 Dyre-line
stations that have no RR clerks on duty during night hours, looking
for and arresting people who go through the gates. The gates are left
unlocked, presumably so that someone with a stroller or other object
that won't fit through the turnstiles can operate the turnstile by
hand and then go through the gate.
Question: wouldn't it be cheaper to higher 5 RR clerks to man the 5
stations (Morris Pk, Pelham Pkwy., Gun hill Rd., Baychester Ave., Dyre
Ave.) then to keep 3 police officers, and probably at least one a
patrol car, assigned to the line every night? Or does the MTA save
money since the NYPD is a city responsibility and not the MTA's? Even
if that is so, this doesn't sound like a sensible way to run things.
No other line in the city uses this "you don't know when we're
watching" system, and I don't think any should. Staff the Dyre line
stations around the clock and drop this nonsense!
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NEXT>10108
PREVIOUS>10085
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:20 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Lou from Brooklyn on February 17, 1998 at 10:32:59:
I recall a similar incident on a F train in Brooklyn. I don't recall
precisely where, but it was approximately at Bay Parkway. The first
door of the front car was off the platform, and the engineer stepped
out in
front of the door to keep people from using it.
It seemed at the time that this was a standard thing to do because the
platform was too short. In other words, it didn't feel like the train
overshot the platform. Any thoughts?
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NEXT>10111
PREVIOUS>10086
POSTER>In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:22 1998
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In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
In Reply to: [8]Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
Sachs on February 17, 1998 at 10:35:57:
I understand that Chicago has implemented OPTO on all of its L lines,
too. My aunt rides the Red line regularly and says that's the case on
that line. She also said they've cut back service to something like
12-minute headways and that, with OPTO, the ride becomes that much
longer.
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NEXT>10122
PREVIOUS>10106
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:23 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Lou from Brooklyn on February 17, 1998 at 10:32:59:
Funny you should mention the rule book ;-}
I work in the A Div.(IRT) so I am not familiar with the car stop
markers in the B Div.(IND-BMT). The situation you mention was handled
in a safe manner but may not have been totally rule book. The Train
Operator's tend to have problems with "Labor Relations" when they over
shoot stations. So there is significant incentive to just complete the
station stop and get out of there as quickly as they can. If the train
operator does this more than once, the conductor would be foolish to
allow the train to continue with out notifing a member of supervision.
I have noticed there is a bond that develops between many Conductors
and Train Operators, they tend to look out for one another in an
effort to keep the number of times they may have to visit Labor
Relations to a minimum. As far as the locked storm doors, the rules
instruct the train crew to open as many storm door as is necessary for
the customers to reach the platform. the rules go on to remind the
crew to lock the doors before proceeding.
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NEXT>10110
PREVIOUS>10003
POSTER>WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:25 1998
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WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
engineering and design contract for the N extension to Laguardia.
Supposedly construction can begin next year and be open in 2004.
(Translation- I'll believe it when it is open). Estimated cost
$1Billion.
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NEXT>10119
PREVIOUS>10109
POSTER>WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:27 1998
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WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
WNBC TV today (2/17/1998) reported that the NYCT is letting an
engineering and design contract for the N extension to Laguardia.
Supposedly construction can begin next year and be open in 2004.
(Translation- I'll believe it when it is open). Estimated cost
$1Billion.
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NEXT>10143
PREVIOUS>10107
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:29 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
In Reply to: [8]Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted
by Steve B on February 17, 1998 at 16:34:39:
Yes, they got rid of A-B (skip stop) service a few years ago, and
instituted OPTO in 1997. However, due to safety concerns (a train fire
in a subway tunnel right before instituting OPTO on the Red), Red and
Blue trains have conductors while in the downtown subways (Blue
between Clinton and Division, and Red between North/Clybourn and
Harrison).
As to twelve-minute headways, that cannot be so at rush hour, at least
not on the busiest lines, the Red, Blue, and Purple. (I doubt it too
for the Brown, overcrowded to the bursting with yuppies.) Maybe on the
other lines. I've rarely waited more than five minutes at rush hour on
the Red or Blue.
The CTA has posted a large timetable in every station, so you can at
least easily confirm how often the trains run, if not actually believe
that's when they'll arrive. And at rush hour, it's a lot more than
five in each direction (a twelve-minute headway is, of course, five
trains in the average hour). They also have the timetables online,
though not as easy to read, at the CTA web site at
http://www.transitchicago.com/schedule.htm
On the other hand, OPTO definitely has added to the length of the
trip. Surprisingly, as the CTA announced in its signs at the time of
starting OPTO, the standing time in stations before the doors open and
after they close has been dwindling as the train operators get used to
OPTO. It will never be as short as when the conductor could open the
doors as soon as the train came to full stop, but it was much longer a
few months ago.
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NEXT>10116
PREVIOUS>10105
POSTER>In Reply to: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:30 1998
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In Reply to: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
In Reply to: [7]Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 17, 1998 at 15:38:43:
That is a strange thing. How can a system require you to use a token
or card, but not sell them within miles of the place where you have to
use them? They could at least install a token dispenser or have the
conductor collect the fare on the train, the way they do in Cleveland
and used to on Philadelphia owl train service. In fact, I think they
used to do this on the Dyre Avenue line years ago.
I would also think if they have undercover officers, they could have
an honor system safe where you could put in cash. The undercover
officers would probably catch anyone who tried to skip but at least a
person with only legal tender could get on the system.
This sounds like one of those Catch-22 things: You want to ride the
subway, you have to have a $1.50 token. To get a token you have to
ride the subway somewhere else or be there at the subway when you are
not using it. Having a token vending machine there would make a lot of
sense.
I hope the judge declined to allow prosecution.
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NEXT>10114
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>There used to be a train that went to one of the airports...it's
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>The First Plane Train
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:32 1998
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There used to be a train that went to one of the airports...it's
There used to be a train that went to one of the airports...it's
symbol was a blue circle with a white plane in it. Can someone please
tell me it's route (I think it stopped at West 4th and 34th, too), and
also the years during which it ran? If there's a map on the internet
with it on it, a link would be appreciated.
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NEXT>10189
PREVIOUS>10113
POSTER>In Reply to: The First Plane Train posted by Elizabeth McKenna on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:34 1998
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In Reply to: The First Plane Train posted by Elizabeth McKenna on
In Reply to: [7]The First Plane Train posted by Elizabeth McKenna on
February 17, 1998 at 18:13:26:
This train was the JFK Express that went from 57th St/6th Avenue to
Kennedy Airport (Howard Beach). I don't know the exact years but it
was roughly the late 70s or early 80s until about 1990 or so. It ran
along 6th Avenue, to W. 4th, then followed the same route as the A
train to Howard Beach, making limited stops. An additional fare (on
top of the regular transit fare) was required to use this train and it
operated with dedicated R-44 equipment.
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NEXT>10120
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>i would like to know here are the subway portals in new york city?
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>where are the el's
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:35 1998
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i would like to know here are the subway portals in new york city?
i would like to know here are the subway portals in new york city?
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NEXT>10188
PREVIOUS>10112
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Carl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:36 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Carl
In Reply to: [7]Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Carl
M. Rabbin on February 17, 1998 at 17:55:02:
Fares were collected on board the trains on the Dyre Avenue line until
not too long ago. In fact, when it was discontinued and people were
required to use tokens at the stations, a similer situation arised
with cops accusing straphangers of fare evasion because many people
weren't aware that the fare policy changed.
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NEXT>9823
PREVIOUS>10096
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Favorite subway line
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:40 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
In Reply to: [7]Re: Favorite subway line posted by David J.
Greenberger on February 15, 1998 at 23:34:47:
I also like that section along the Nassau Street line, which was
better when the R-16s and R-30s were running there because of the
lights constantly flicking off and on.
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NEXT>9757
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
In Reply to: [7]Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 12, 1998 at 21:11:36:
During the interim (probably a VERY long interim), why doesn't NJ
Transit have a bus service operating between New Jersey and Staten
Island?
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NEXT>10121
PREVIOUS>10110
POSTER>In Reply to: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:42 1998
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In Reply to: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
In Reply to: [8]Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
February 17, 1998 at 17:44:27:
GREAT NEWS! This is just what is needed! I have a feeling that this
extention will bring a lot more people back to the subways and give
the MTA a vote of confidence in that they can actually get this thing
done after all the discussions and planning which of course are
necessary.
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NEXT>10131
PREVIOUS>10115
POSTER>In Reply to: where are the el's posted by chuck
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: where are the el's
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:45 1998
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In Reply to: where are the el's posted by chuck on February 17,
In Reply to: [8]where are the el's posted by chuck on February 17,
1998 at 18:41:55:
See the [9]Subway FAQ. It describes where the "subway" is underground,
elevated, open cut, etc.
-Dave
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NEXT>10153
PREVIOUS>10119
POSTER>In Reply to: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:51 1998
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In Reply to: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
In Reply to: [8]Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by subway-buff on
February 17, 1998 at 17:44:13:
Sounds like a good idea...too bad it won't be open by this Saturday
when I'm going to LaGuardia *lol* But like subway-buff, I'll have to
see it to believe it.-Nick
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NEXT>10124
PREVIOUS>10108
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Lou from Brooklyn on February 17, 1998 at 10:32:59:
Your problem witht he R-44s, 46s, 68s and 68As is one of arithmetic.
The 'standard' BMT/IND car is 60' long hence a 10-car train is 600'
long. Now enter the so-called 75' cars. They are called 75' cars
because they are 75 feet long so an 8-car R-68 train is also 600 feet
long and therefore must stop at the 10 car mark to fully platform.
Same with a 6-car G train. it's 450' long so it stops at the 8-car
mark which is 480'.
Now here's the real problem:
On an 8-car R-32, the Conductor operates at the 4 & 4 position while
on an 8-car R-40, the Conductor will operate at the 5 & 3 position.
Now a 6-car R-46 and the Conductor will operate at the 4 & 2 position
or the 2 & 4 position. Where do you put the Conductor's boards at each
station so you are sure that every car class platforms correctly?
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NEXT>10129
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>There have been posts
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:54:59 1998
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There have been posts on here stating that the R-62's will replace the
There have been posts on here stating that the R-62's will replace the
redbirds, and the R-142's will go where the R-62's are now. However,
there are going to be fewer seats in the R-142 (but more than the
R-110) than in the R-62's. Is it just me, or is the #4 going to be
even more jammed than ever?? Or does it not matter, because other
lines have the same amount of riders. I'm not sure about this one, I'd
appreciate any thoughts.-Nick
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NEXT>10243
PREVIOUS>10122
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:01 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Steve on February 17, 1998 at 21:42:56:
This is one of the reasons I am glad I live in the Bronx and was able
to pick the A Div.(IRT) at the begging of school car. Another reason
is, there are basicly only 2 types of equipment you need to master,
"Red Birds" and the R-62's. All of the equipment is a standard lenght.
From a Conductors stand point, if you can master the "Red Birds" the
R-62's are a piece of cake. School car is a bit longer for B
Div(IND-BMT) Conductors due to many different types of equipment they
must master as well as the fact that there are more lines.
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NEXT>10126
PREVIOUS>10083
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:03 1998
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In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
In Reply to: [7]Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
Rail) posted by Andrew Byler on February 17, 1998 at 10:20:56:
Right on Andy!
NY is in a class by itself with stupidity and corruption blocking the
most common-sense infrastructure improvements. As you pointed out,
with all the money the city blows on welfare, derelicts, and dead-end
junkies, it can't even build a simple rail line to its major airport.
Pathetic. Add to this lethal mixture the obtuseness and bureaucratic
obstructionism of the Port Authority, seeking (as another poster
noted) to protect their parking monopoly profits, and the situation is
clear: NOTHING WILL EVER HAPPEN.
Just to add to your list of US cities with airport rail links, I
thought I'd note a few foreign locations that have their act together
more than NY ever will:
London, Frankfurt, Duesseldorf, Munich, Tokyo, Zurich, Hong Kong
(opens in June), Osaka, Brussels, Amsterdam, Paris.
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NEXT>10181
PREVIOUS>10125
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:04 1998
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In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
In Reply to: [7]Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
Rail) posted by Joker on February 17, 1998 at 23:05:33:
Was it any wonder that the Batman movies (especially) and the comic
books that created the Dark Knight used "Gotham City" as the name of
Bruce Wayne's city - Gotham - another term for NEW YORK CITY!!!
NEW YORK - the city that dragged itself to Hell, and dragged itself
S-L-O-W-L-Y back up - and it's not there yet.
NEW YORK - the city that tore down the 2nd & 3rd Aves els, with NO
replacement. The city that destroyed its streetcar systems and
replaced them with an inferior means of public transit.
I could go on. I'm glad that I live somewhere else.
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NEXT>10220
PREVIOUS>10099
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:05 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Mark S Feinman
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Mark S Feinman
on February 17, 1998 at 12:53:05:
Perhaps some of the new MCI's can be used? They have luggage racks,
and they have the underfloor space, too.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10093
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: N and R train service disruption! posted by Carl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: N and R train service disruption!
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: N and R train service disruption! posted by Carl
In Reply to: [8]Re: N and R train service disruption! posted by Carl
M. Rabbin on February 17, 1998 at 12:32:26:
There is work being done on the platforms, I believe, at both the 5th
ave and the Lexington Ave stations. In any case, the reason for the
Roosevelt Shuttle is that there will be only 1 track in service from
57st to 21st/Queens. This is due to deteriation of the trackbed in the
63st tunnel. It is being rebuilt before they start to run REAL service
through it, when the Queens Blvd Connector opens.
And the original start date for the Roosevelt Shuttle was mid to late
January. It was postponed because of delays in the construction on the
60st tunnel. Once the 60st work is finished, 63st work will be
completed. This work involves totally removing the trackbed, and
replaceing it.
-Hank
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NEXT>10138
PREVIOUS>10123
POSTER>In Reply to: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:08 1998
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In Reply to: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Nick on February 17, 1998 at 21:48:36:
Where are the Redbirds going to go once they're retired? I really am
going to miss them. You can do some real straphanging (well close
anyway) and the lights still go off sometimes during the ride (Does
anybody know why this is the case?) This is my memory of all trains
back in the early 80s so once the Redbirds go I don't know what I'll
do!
But I agree. My major complaint about the R-110s was the lack of
seating. I think with the introduction of these cars in 1999, we'll
all have much sorer feet!
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NEXT>10158
PREVIOUS>10063
POSTER>As I havn't ridden the SIR at the Rush Hour until just recently, I
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:10 1998
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As I havn't ridden the SIR at the Rush Hour until just recently, I
As I havn't ridden the SIR at the Rush Hour until just recently, I
noticed that Rush Hour trains are running 5 cars, with an engineer and
2 conductors, one at each end.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10120
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: where are the el's posted by David Pirmann on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: where are the el's
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: where are the el's posted by David Pirmann on
In Reply to: [7]Re: where are the el's posted by David Pirmann on
February 17, 1998 at 21:00:29:
thanks dave, but i have a question about the "L" train. does it have
two prtals or what. it's a little ambiguous.
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NEXT>10155
PREVIOUS>10006
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:12 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 18, 1998 at 10:47:16:
I like Carl's logic. I have noticed how crowded the trains have become
lately, but as he said, it can really only mean good for the users of
mass transit in New York, especially subway riders. With that extra
cash they could make roomier trains. They can be a bit confining, even
the big models.
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NEXT>10149
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:14 1998
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In Reply to: The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
In Reply to: [7]The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
February 18, 1998 at 12:53:15:
The short answer is that it was an elevated line built in the late
1800s for trains with a low vehicle weight. It was also elevated the
entire length of Manhattan. The goal of the subway was to remove all
elevated lines in Manhattan which were the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th
Avenue lines. In 1955 the 3rd Avenue line, the last one remaining, was
finally torn down, and 3rd stopped being the one plain (ugly)-looking
East Side Avenue on Manhattan Island.
Now the only elevated sections in Manhattan are from 122 to 131 on the
#1 line (because of a very low valley; the subway never actually
rises, the land drops) and north of approximately 215 St + plus the
Manhattan and Williamsburg Bridges.
While the line was probably very nice to ride on, in tearing it down,
the city has gotten a reclaimed 3rd Avenue out of it (There are on
average only 12 avenues in this, the short answer).
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NEXT>10201
PREVIOUS>10102
POSTER>In Reply to: World record posted by Tom
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: World record
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:15 1998
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In Reply to: World record posted by Tom on February 17, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]World record posted by Tom on February 17, 1998 at
15:01:08:
No clue, but good luck. Maybe when I'm in town next month I'll try
that. But probably not. All that rocking( do the trains rock?) could
make me dizzy.
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NEXT>10140
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:17 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer on February 18,
1998 at 12:05:39:
True. Lots of stations are somewhat empty at night. But why close
them. Actually 2nd Avenue is the only station for the entire area from
First Avenue through Avenue A to Avenue D and from south of Houston
north to E. 8th St. (at least).
In fact, at night only the 1st Avenue entrance is open because that is
where it is used most. It is not a neighborhood filled with private
cars or limos, so the people who live there probably rely on it
greatly. Besides what's an extra 30 seconds to stop there anyway?
Plus, Yonah Schimmel's Knishes (Houston St. at 2nd Avenue) are right
there, and who would want to miss those? I was just there on Monday
and my brother and I bought $10 worth of knishes and latkes to take
home...
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NEXT>10141
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: where are the el's posted by chuck
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: where are the el's: The #1
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:19 1998
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In Reply to: Re: where are the el's posted by chuck on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: where are the el's posted by chuck on February 18,
1998 at 15:35:30:
It's got 3 portals: Going north it's subway->el before just before
125, el->subway soon after 125, subway->el before 215 (or maybe it's
225, I forget).
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NEXT>9719
PREVIOUS>10100
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC posted by astrid
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:21 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC posted by astrid on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC posted by astrid on February
17, 1998 at 14:26:36:
If you mean people types on the subway, a columnist for the NY Daily
News wrote one about 4 years ago, called "Subway Lives." If you mean
the personality of each line, go for it.
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NEXT>10148
PREVIOUS>10129
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Steve B on February 18, 1998 at 08:12:07:
The life expectancy of a subway car may be thirty years, but how about
a rebuilt subway car that was already 30 years old? I don't know
anything about the structural and electrical integrity of the
redbirds, but a number of them are rusting through their bodies. Some
have oddly dented walls and doors. They are aging rapidly. I imagine
that the MTA has a better idea about how long these cars will be
useable. I suspect that they would want to retire a number of cars
relatively soon and use them to maintain the remainder.
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NEXT>9865
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC:A Metrobeef posted by Lou from
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Getting around NYC:A Metrobeef
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:24 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Getting around NYC:A Metrobeef posted by Lou from
In Reply to: [7]Re: Getting around NYC:A Metrobeef posted by Lou from
Middletown on February 14, 1998 at 15:23:37:
I hate to seem like a cynic, but as much fun as it is, NYC is not the
epicenter of the tourist universe (I know, I didn't believe that when
I lived there either). And for most who are going to visit, buying
that first $1.50 ticket out of town is not that important. In London,
which is the by-far largest tourist destination in the entire UK,
travellers may like to be reassured by the 4-day or 7-day pass they
can buy in advance. It still doesn't seem to me that important to be
able to buy that in advance, either.
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NEXT>10161
PREVIOUS>10135
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:26 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: F line posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February 18,
1998 at 15:55:11:
You're making me hungry!!!
I miss NYC food!
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10136
POSTER>
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: where are the el's: The #1
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:28 1998
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In Reply to: [7]Re: where are the el's: The #1 posted by Carl M.
Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 15:59:25:
I guess I should type like this. I meant to put "L" train not "1"
train. My mistake. But thank you for the information.
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NEXT>9981
PREVIOUS>10098
POSTER>In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Z and #9 train
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:29 1998
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In Reply to: Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Z and #9 train posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998
at 11:22:54:
Maybe, since I just started to comtemplate after I read this, keep my
mouth closed since I'm not an authority on this section, but it seems
to me that the C and Q trains don't need to exist either. If you'll
notice they never run on their own track, they are always conjoined to
another line and if( in the case of the C train) it is a local, there
is another local running the length of that line. That just seems to
be a little odd to me. And one more quickie. Could somebody give me
the low-down on what all this Manhattan Bridge stuff is all about?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10111
POSTER>In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:30 1998
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In Reply to: Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
In Reply to: [7]Skip-Stop in Chicago, a thing of the past posted by Ed
Sachs on February 17, 1998 at 10:35:57:
Hmmmmmm. Wouldn't that be nice in Philadelphia. Both systems have
always seemed similar to me and that "A-B" train stuff can be a bit
annoying if you have to get somewhere and realize you're at an "A"
stop when yours is a "B" stop. Oy vey! And I mean that, strangely
enough
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NEXT>10187
PREVIOUS>10046
POSTER>In Reply to: Newark Subway posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:31 1998
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In Reply to: Newark Subway posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]Newark Subway posted by Bootsy on February 16, 1998 at
11:18:47:
strange, i never knew newark had a subway.
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NEXT>9856
PREVIOUS>10087
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: What is OPTO?
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:33 1998
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In Reply to: Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Re: What is OPTO? posted by Steve on February 14, 1998
at 13:12:15:
OPTO stands for " One Person Train Operation" and is about to be
implemented on the Market-Frankford Line here in Philadelphia. I would
imagine they do it to: A-give the coductor two things to worry about
or: B-
to save the money of paying person two(see A). I guess it has
something to do with computerizing the system but I don't think that
that's such a wonderful idea.
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NEXT>10147
PREVIOUS>10091
POSTER>In Reply to: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:34 1998
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In Reply to: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
In Reply to: [7]34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
February 13, 1998 at 20:21:53:
That sure is a dingy station on the 7th Avenue side. You want a worse
one?
go to the City Hall station on the Broad Street Subway in
Philadelphia. It'll beat that one out. It's a little dangerous because
they mop the platform often and it remains slick with water. If
somebody should slip a little too close to the edge when an oncoming
train is approaching....
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NEXT>10164
PREVIOUS>10146
POSTER>In Reply to: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:35 1998
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In Reply to: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
In Reply to: [7]34th Street- Penn Station design posted by David L. on
February 13, 1998 at 20:21:53:
That sure is a dingy station on the 7th Avenue side. You want a worse
one?
Go to the City Hall station on the Broad Street Subway in
Philadelphia. It'll beat that one out. It's a little dangerous because
they mop the platform often and it remains slick with water. If
somebody should slip a little too close to the edge when an oncoming
train is approaching....
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NEXT>10165
PREVIOUS>10138
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:36 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Mark Goldey on February 18, 1998 at 08:58:33:
Thirty years might be the normal life span for a subway car, but there
are exceptions, most notably the R-32/R-38 cars. Some of these cars
are at that mark yet they're still quite reliable and haven't yet been
scheduled for replacement.
The Redbirds probably would be good for a while longer if it weren't
for the corrosion they've been experiencing.
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NEXT>10163
PREVIOUS>10133
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:38 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
In Reply to: [8]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 18, 1998 at 15:47:28:
Don't forget: the Bronx portion of the 3rd Ave. El survived until
1973. Had the 2nd Ave. line been built when it was originally
conceived, the 3rd Ave. El would have more than likely been dismantled
at the same time as the other Manhattan Els. The only reason it
remained in service in Manhattan for as long as it did was because it
was felt the el would be needed until the 2nd Ave line would be built.
As Paul Harvey always says, now you know the rest of the story.
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NEXT>10152
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:39 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
back and join the club. Fortuneately the troublemakers are gone( I
hope.)
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NEXT>10178
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line + Food
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:40 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: F line posted by Timothy Speer on February 18,
1998 at 16:18:52:
Wait, I'll make you feel worse. We got black & white cookies from the
Lafayette French Bakery on Bleeker St. and 7th Avenue in the Village.
Plus oil-dripping pizza from some typically anonymous place with a red
awning on Broadway in the 30s.
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NEXT>10156
PREVIOUS>10150
POSTER>Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:43 1998
EMAILNOTICES>no
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Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
Marek Poutska, Where are you? You seemed to have dissapeared. Come on
back and join the club. Fortuneately the troublemakers are gone( I
hope.)
Besides, I didn't get to give you that information on the next subway
sytem.
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NEXT>10170
PREVIOUS>10121
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:45 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
February 18, 1998 at 08:20:24:
According to Joe Cunningham the extension would probably run from
Astoria Blvd since the Chairman of the City Council owns a building at
Ditmars.
This extension would more than likely start as a flyover on a second
level to leave the "original" section.
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NEXT>10225
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: inquire posted by David
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: inquire
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:47 1998
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In Reply to: inquire posted by David on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]inquire posted by David on February 18, 1998 at
10:55:24:
Maybe it's me, but I do not know what in the world you are talking
about. Try to re-phrase it.
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NEXT>10203
PREVIOUS>10132
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:48 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Crowded subways posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 18, 1998 at 10:47:16:
Amen to that.
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NEXT>10241
PREVIOUS>10152
POSTER>In Reply to: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Alex Rocco
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:50 1998
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In Reply to: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Alex Rocco
In Reply to: [7]Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Alex Rocco
on February 18, 1998 at 17:21:08:
To Mr. Alex Rocco, My name is Darren. You've never met me but
apparently you had a run-in with my nephew, Steve( yes, THAT Steve). I
would like to extend a heartfelt apology for the atrocious things he
wrote about you. I am deeply sorry and believe me, after we found out
what Steve is, he's reeeeally sorry as well. Again, please forgive us
and the immature actions of a 13 year old troublemaker. The regulars
of this site won't have to endure that anymore.
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NEXT>10159
PREVIOUS>10037
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Philip Nasadowski on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:52 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Philip Nasadowski on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail Current posted by Philip Nasadowski on
February 18, 1998 at 11:37:45:
I've heard that a fully loaded train can draw as much as 10,000 amps
when starting from a dead stop.
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NEXT>9547
PREVIOUS>10130
POSTER>In Reply to: SIR trains posted by Hank Eisenstein
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: SIR trains
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:54 1998
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In Reply to: SIR trains posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]SIR trains posted by Hank Eisenstein on February 18,
1998 at 02:06:59:
Why *two* conductors?? The subway makes do with one, despite having
longer consists.
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NEXT>10179
PREVIOUS>10157
POSTER>In Reply to: Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:55 1998
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In Reply to: Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer on February
In Reply to: [8]Third Rail Current posted by Timothy Speer on February
18, 1998 at 08:45:49:
Not an easy question but I'll try and give you a feel for the
magnitude. (Talking about a 10-car train - single car units) A train
from a stop to say 25 MPH draws a maximum of 450 Amps per car. A
compressor and converter each draw about 12 amps each. HVAC about 40
Amps. That's about 515 Amps per car or 5150 per train. Of course these
are just averages. The average subway storage yard, I'm told, is fused
at about 275,000 amps. By the way, I'm told by one of the EMD
Engineers, (not a railroad engineer) that the new Dual Mode LIRR Locos
will draw 4,800 Amps peak.
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NEXT>10174
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Boston & Express runs
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:56 1998
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In Reply to: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [7]Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 11:22:18:
This is totally off the subject but all the photos I've seen of the
Boston subway, they were in viaducts and on the surface. Do they run
in tunnels outside of downtown?
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NEXT>10162
PREVIOUS>10140
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:55:57 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
Shhhhhhh! Be careful. The budget cutters at the MTA might hear you.
Don't start asking why this station or that isn't closed overnights
and weekends. Remember, we like having a 24 hour subway & bus system
to go along with our "City That Never Sleeps."
Seriously, even stations that are only used occassionally during off
hours should still be open as part of the city's pact with all of us
who pay sales & income taxes, as well as homeowners who pay high
property taxes. Employers expect a work force ready to do our jobs at
any hour of the day or night. And they, too, pay higher taxes for that
service.
By the way, if you're up in the middle of the night, notice how may
MTA buses that complete their runs without a single passenger getting
on board. I once had to wake an m66 driver to get me crosstown at
4:40am. I was the only passenger the whole trip.
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NEXT>10182
PREVIOUS>10161
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:01 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
Shhhhhhh! Be careful. The budget cutters at the MTA might hear you.
Don't start asking why this station or that isn't closed overnights
and weekends. Remember, we like having a 24 hour subway & bus system
to go along with our "City That Never Sleeps."
Seriously, even stations that are only used occassionally during off
hours should still be open as part of the city's pact with all of us
who pay sales & income taxes, as well as homeowners who pay high
property taxes. Employers expect a work force ready to do our jobs at
any hour of the day or night. And they, too, pay higher taxes for that
service.
By the way, if you're up in the middle of the night, notice how may
MTA buses that complete their runs without a single passenger getting
on board. I once had to wake an m66 driver to get me crosstown at
4:40am. I was the only passenger the whole trip.
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NEXT>10166
PREVIOUS>10149
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:02 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
In Reply to: [8]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Carl M. Rabbin on
February 18, 1998 at 15:47:28:
I am sure that Roger Arcara, God bless him, would roll over if he saw
you response.
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NEXT>9840
PREVIOUS>10147
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:03 1998
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In Reply to: Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
In Reply to: [8]Re: 34th Street- Penn Station design posted by Peter
Rosa on February 17, 1998 at 11:50:43:
i hate the design @ 34th st. because i am always looking to catch
either the 1 or the 2/3 there because i get off @ 96th st from teh 2/3
to catch a 1 if the 2/3 comes first or i just take the 1 if that comes
first (depending on what time of day) and @ 34th st you have to make a
commitment to wait either for the 1 or the 2/3.. unless you see it
coming far in advance and run downtairs and then back upstairs to the
other platform.. its annoying..
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NEXT>10172
PREVIOUS>10148
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:04 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Mark S Feinman on February 18, 1998 at 12:48:43:
It would be really awesome if the general public was allowed to
purchase some of the old Redbirds. I would spring for one if the price
was right!
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NEXT>10212
PREVIOUS>10163
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B on February
18, 1998 at 17:17:03:
Are you or we (subtalk) going to include the Manhattan, Bronx &
Brooklyn Els in the line by line series.
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NEXT>10194
PREVIOUS>10040
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:07 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
Carl M. Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 15:28:01:
I have 2 questions:
1) When did this 2 fare collection end?
2) Was there a token booth inside the turnstiles at these stations? If
you didn't have a token how could you exit?
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NEXT>10169
PREVIOUS>10032
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:08 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
In Reply to: [8]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Carl
M. Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 09:49:50:
One thing I really HATE about the JFK shuttle bus is that it runs only
once every 15 minutes during the day and once every half hour at
night. This crappy service is unexcusable in such a prominent airport.
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NEXT>10184
PREVIOUS>10168
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:10 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy on February
17, 1998 at 18:40:09:
Don't forget that it only went to Howard Beach and then you had to
catch a 3-mile shuttle bus ride to the airport itself. That system is
still in place, but now you only have to take the A train (express
weekdays) to Howard Beach for the regular fare then catch the same bus
that met the "Airport train" for free. It is probably not much slower
than the "Airport" train which cost a fortune ($5.00 when the regular
fare was 50 cents, I believe).
So there never has been a direct train to the plane in NYC. BTW, I
consider Boston's to be a "direct" connection because its shuttle bus
runs every 5-8 minutes and is no different from picking up a rental
car.
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NEXT>10185
PREVIOUS>10153
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
February 18, 1998 at 08:20:24:
I think that some of the postings related to this topic have gotten
mixed up with others. I found one from Steve up above and the one from
Subway Buff is from Alex Rocco. I think the program is screwing up a
little.
Anyway, my idea is to extend the N train from Astoria Blvd./Hoyt
Avenue station as Steve mentioned. This way, no one can complain
because it could be extended over or next to the Grand Central Parkway
through a right-of-way that the city can secure. It would therefore
not run by anybody's house as it might really bother people if it were
near Ditmars Ave. But I'm not sure how this would be accomplished in
terms of the physical structure at Astoria Blvd.
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NEXT>10211
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>I had accsssed the archives when I had a cable modem.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Archive Access
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:14 1998
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I had accsssed the archives when I had a cable modem.
I had accsssed the archives when I had a cable modem.
However, I had it disconnected because it cost too much.
I would like to know how to access the archives, or portions thereof,
using my standard dial-up modem.
What are the correct or best procedures?
Another item... Upon having the cable modem taken out, I noticed that
the modem was very hot. Not hot enough to burn, but way above body
temperature.
I am not sure if the heat from ythe cable modem has injured my dial-up
modem because the dial-up modem will disconnect me now and then for no
appearent reason. And, sometimes when I go to reconnect, the whole
system locks up, and I have to reboot.
I wonder if anyone else has noticed the heat from a cable modem.
I was using a Media One service that required a dial-up to start up
the "Surfboard" cable modem and used the dial-up for transmissions to
the server.
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NEXT>10197
PREVIOUS>10165
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:15 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Mark S Feinman on February 18, 1998 at 12:50:44:
The Redbirds were in pretty bad shape when they were refurbished 10
years ago. If it wasn't done, the cars weren't going to last much
longer.
It's amazing that the R-32/38's held up, because there were supposedly
cracks in the door frames of the R-32's, and if not repairable, they
would never have been refurbished.
The slant R-40's will be the next to go, as they are in pretty bad
shape when compared with the 32's and 38's. (Bad Karma, those 40's.)
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NEXT>10176
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Subways in Boston use exposed 3rd rail.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Danger ! - Exposed third rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:16 1998
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Subways in Boston use exposed 3rd rail.
Subways in Boston use exposed 3rd rail.
On the Red Line, at Park St. station, the 3rd rail is located right
beside and below the platform (since there is a platform on either
side of the track). I have seen people drop items onto the 3rd rail,
fall into the pit, etc.
I've written to the 'T' suggesting they cover the 3rd rail in this
station, but was told it was impractical since pickup shoes on
maintenance equipment drops down vertically.
Has anyone seen a similar situation in another city ?
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NEXT>10186
PREVIOUS>10160
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Boston & Express runs
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:17 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Darren on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Darren on February
18, 1998 at 17:34:52:
The Red Line runs underground all the way from Kendall Square to
Alewife, which is the Northern terminus.
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NEXT>10236
PREVIOUS>10007
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:20 1998
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In Reply to: Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [8]Re: rockaway double fare posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 11:31:40:
I remember one time while growing up a bunch of us took the "HH" train
to Playland at Beach 98th Street. To get out of the station we had to
deposit a token. To get back on, it costs 2 tokens each. Since we were
young, we spent all our money at Playland and only had money for 1
token (I think the fare was 20 cents at the time.) The token booth
clerk was nice enough to let us on for 1 token each. Every trip after
that, we made sure to have a handful of tokens with us.
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NEXT>10253
PREVIOUS>10173
POSTER>In Reply to: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Danger ! - Exposed third rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:21 1998
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In Reply to: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
In Reply to: [7]Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
Boston on February 18, 1998 at 19:49:52:
It happens at times especially with center platforms
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NEXT>10190
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by jm on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by jm on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by jm on
February 18, 1998 at 20:27:47:
Septa uses it under the platforms even when there is only one
platform. I personally think it's dangerous, but I've never heard of
anything saying it is actually unsafe.
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NEXT>10215
PREVIOUS>10151
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line + Food posted by Carl M. Rabbin
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line + Food
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:24 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line + Food posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: F line + Food posted by Carl M. Rabbin on February
18, 1998 at 17:20:16:
Just a block from the F line Prospect park Station is Joe's Pizza I
can taste it now Subway riding makes you hungry
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NEXT>10191
PREVIOUS>10159
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:56:26 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Steve B on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail Current posted by Steve B on February
18, 1998 at 17:29:51:
I have been told PCC equipment draws about 450 Amps per car full load
with 4-55hp motors. Is that right or is that a bit high?
The NYC trains have larger motors. How big are they? Do they draw more
current, or are they more efficient?
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10103
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Dan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:23 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Dan
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Bottle Neck On Bus posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 17, 1998 at 15:02:55:
Why not just extend the A train a little on a spur to JFK. I know it's
not that easy, but with it being so close it's a shame that it can't
be extended just a little!
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NEXT>9833
PREVIOUS>10126
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light Rail)
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:24 1998
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In Reply to: Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
In Reply to: [8]Re: No trains to airport (Was Re: NYC Airport Light
Rail) posted by Dan Lawrence on February 18, 1998 at 00:58:24:
New York was not alone when it came to dismantling streetcar systems.
I can think of 5 or 6 lines in Chicago which could have been kept,
although I'm too young to remember streetcars there. Those North
American cities which kept even some streetcar lines in operation are
to be commended (San Francisco, Toronto, Philadelphia, Boston, New
Orleans). San Francisco did something unique: not only were the tracks
on Market St. kept, they were upgraded before the new F-Market line
went in service.
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NEXT>10207
PREVIOUS>10162
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Mark S Feinman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:25 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line posted by Mark S Feinman on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: F line posted by Mark S Feinman on February 18,
1998 at 12:27:16:
Everything is relative. What is "underutilized" by New York transit
standards may exceed the ridership of newer transit lines in other
cities . Especially some of those opened in cities where most of the
growth occured after WW II and the widespread ownership of
automobiles. Therefore, don't be too anxious to eliminate transit
facilities, they usually are not replaced.
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NEXT>10198
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Night Service: Beg to Differ
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:27 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
As an F train rider from the vicinity of Joe's Pizza, I'm not sure 24
hour subway service on all lines in the best and only way to serve the
public.
Consider that most subway crime occurs at night, and most vandalism as
well. With little revenue, the MTA compensates with long headways,
shuttle trains and three waits on a ride home, and, now, unmanned
stations. Many bus lines do not run at night, and many others have 40
or 60 minute headways. That's a long wait on a corner. Crime rate drop
or no, waiting 20 minutes alone in an isolated station two stories
underground is not my idea of a safety. With the TA going to OPTO at
night, the train operators are even afraid of the night shift.
Consider, too, that the reason NYC built a subway is that congestion
on the street made surface mass transit slow and unreliable. At night,
when the subway works worst, buses have the potential to work better.
I once joined an after-work basketball league in Manhattan. I soon
quit because the rides home at 10:00 at night were some of the longest
of my life. 3 a.m? Forget it!
Is there an alternative? What if the TA ran IRT local service
(shifting to the express tracks north of 96th/125th and south of
Chambers/Brooklyn Bridge to enter the tunnels) to the HUB in the
Bronx, Boro Hall in Downtown Brooklyn, and Queens Plaza. The service
would run every three minutes, not every 20. From these transfer
points (and 96th Street on the west side of Manhattan), buses (or
vans) could run every five minutes to neighborhoods througout the
city. Express routes could bypass inner neighborhods direct to outer
areas of the city to increase speed. The shorter headways would
compensate for a one block longer walk to the IRT, and a change to a
bus. The transfer points could be manned by police, and a
concentration of passengers could attract open newsstands and other
services. If the buses could override traffic signals electronically,
the ride would be even faster. Passengers would feel more comfortable
on the surface in the middle of the night, and ridership might
increase. More buses would also run in Manhattan, competing with
taxis.
With all those empty stations and lines closed at night, this type of
service could be cheaper even if more frequent. And track maintenance
would be safer, and less disruptive. They could shut off the power.
Shutting down one station without providing an alternative is no
benefit. Indeed, today the TA virtually shuts down its bus system
while continuing to run the subways, so there is no alternative. But a
complete rethink should not be dismissed.
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NEXT>10204
PREVIOUS>10169
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:28 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
Bootsy on February 18, 1998 at 14:30:14:
Oops! You missed $.75 and $1.10.
Actually, I think it went from a $1 - $1.10 - $1.25 - $1.50 (current).
I thought the JFK express started after the fare was raised from $.50,
possibly even beyond that. Anybody can correlate the fare increases
with the JFK inception date?
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NEXT>10206
PREVIOUS>10170
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:29 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by
subway-buff on February 18, 1998 at 17:21:57:
Perhaps Vallone could be convinced to build an airport hotel on his
property and extend it from Ditmars.
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NEXT>10229
PREVIOUS>10174
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Boston & Express runs
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:30 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Timothy Speer on
February 18, 1998 at 20:22:23:
Going the other direction the red line is below ground until just past
Andrew Station where the line branches into 2 lines. The Braintree is
above ground all the way, while Ashmount is above ground until just
past Fields Corners where it goes to Ashmount. A large part of the
Fields Corner to Ashmount tunnel is visable and barely below the
surface. The Blue line is underground to just before the Airport
Station then above ground to the end. The north portion oof the Orange
line is above ground from north of the Mystic river to Malden, I am
not sure of the Southern portion as I have not lived in Boston since
the new part was finished. All lies are underground in the downtown
section but some do run above outside the area. The Gren line trolleys
vary at each end when the go above ground. BTW the RED line toward
Harvard Sq does come above ground for one station, over a bridge and
back into the tunnel.
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NEXT>10193
PREVIOUS>10144
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by paul
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:32 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by paul on February 18, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: Newark Subway posted by paul on February 18, 1998
at 17:06:45:
It is (was) really more of a trunk line for trolleys, where various
trolley lines would merge into it. Since then all the trolleys have
vanished except this trunk line, #7-City Subway (not to be confused
with the NYC Flushing line). You can still see ramps and turn-ins at
various points on the line. It's tiny compared to the NYC subway
system and obviously doesn't garner as much publicity, but it's a
great way to get up close to PCC trolley cars in the NY metropolitan
area. The PCC cars are very well maintained, considering they must be
50 years old or more. There is even some kind of antique box or
device, above and to the left of the driver. The line is partially
underground, with at least 2 underground stations, and travels on its
own ROW, hence it qualifies as a subway. The line terminates at Newark
Penn Station, so you can take PATH, Amtrak, or NJT to take a peek at
it.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10116
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Steve
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:33 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Steve
In Reply to: [7]Re: Dyre Ave. line farebeating arrests posted by Steve
B on February 18, 1998 at 15:11:40:
I used to live near the Dyre Avenue Line in the 70's. After about
8:30pm the fares were collected on the train. As I recall the
ridership in the evening was very light. A token agent could probably
take long naps. I would suggest a vending machine to sell tokens or
farecards
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NEXT>10217
PREVIOUS>10114
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:35 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy on February
In Reply to: [8]Re: The First Plane Train posted by Bootsy on February
17, 1998 at 18:40:09:
Wasn't the JFK express mostly R-46 cars? I thought that was the reason
the MTA bought more cars with cabs than cars without. When the R-46
trucks were being replaced, they may have been using R-44's though.
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NEXT>10195
PREVIOUS>10177
POSTER>In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:38 1998
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In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
1998 at 20:31:27:
Exposed 3rd rail was the standard for all the original El
electrifications.
I believe that Chicago's El and subway is still exposed 3rd rail.
At one time (prior to 1933) the New Haven had some DC electrifications
with exposed 3rd rail and one of them was a center rail.
The London, UK system still has an exposed center 3rd rail.
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NEXT>10202
PREVIOUS>10179
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
1998 at 20:53:37:
Assuming 600V trolley, it doesn't sound too far off...
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NEXT>9930
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer + LaGuardia Airport
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:43 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
In Reply to: [7]Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Bootsy on
February 17, 1998 at 00:38:09:
The SOLE purpose of the M60 is to go to LaGuardia. In fact it is
likely that the main purpose of the bus line is to get Columbia
students and faculty to LaGuardia, because taking the N to Astoria and
catching the same bus has to be faster than riding the length of 125
St. and over the Triborough Bridge in heavy traffic unless you are
already near 125 St.
I certainly agree, though, that it would seem extremely useful, as
you've said, to make the busses on that line baggage-friendly.
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NEXT>10232
PREVIOUS>10187
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Andrew Huie
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:47 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by Andrew Huie on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: Newark Subway posted by Andrew Huie on February
18, 1998 at 21:51:26:
its fun little line (22minutes runnig time end to end] with one grade
crossing traffic light control
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NEXT>10196
PREVIOUS>10167
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:48 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
Adam on February 18, 1998 at 18:50:43:
The token booths in the Rockaway stations were built along the divider
between the free and fare-paid areas, and had windows on both sides,
so the clerk could sell tokens to people either outside or inside the
fare controls. As I remember, there were also slam gates that were
marked "No Admittance" on both sides. I think it ended some time in
the 1970's.
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NEXT>10209
PREVIOUS>10190
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:49 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
1998 at 22:28:39:
At least in the case of the New York subway, third-rail electrocutions
are quite rare. Though someone might know differently, I don't believe
there have been any for the past few years at least.
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NEXT>10224
PREVIOUS>10194
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:50 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by
Carl M. Rabbin on February 18, 1998 at 15:28:01:
Use of double fares may have been facilitated by the fact that the
Rockaway lines weren't originally part of the subway system. The LIRR
operated the lines up to the early 1950s, when it pulled out and the
subway took over.
Presumably, the double fare was substantially less than what the LIRR
had been charging (though its service probably was a lot faster).
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NEXT>10228
PREVIOUS>10172
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:51 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Adam on February 18, 1998 at 18:33:30:
Actually, the TA probably would accept public offers for the Redbirds.
Except for a few that might be destined for museum duty, the rest most
likely will be scrapped once they're retired. As I doubt they have a
particularly high scrap value, you might indeed have a chance at
snagging one!
Of course, the cost of transporting a Redbird to wherever you're going
to keep it might be substantial.
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NEXT>10200
PREVIOUS>10183
POSTER>In Reply to: Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Night Service: Beg to Differ
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:53 1998
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In Reply to: Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
In Reply to: [8]Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 18, 1998 at 21:19:53:
I agree with you that the system is a lot less safe at night, but I
don't think that should be cause to shut it down. The pride of our
subway system is that it's a 24 hour, 7 day a week, 365 days a year
operation. We are the city that never sleeps and we need a subway that
gets us to wherever we are going, day or night. Instead, let's get
some better protection at night. What you might not be aware of is
that many stations have an off-hours waiting area near the token booth
where there is either a view of the platform to see the train or an
electronic display telling passengers when the train is approaching.
For unmanned stations, there definitely exists a problem. I personally
don't relish the idea of having nobody to go to for help if the need
arises. In these stations, I think there needs to be installed call
buttons all along the station so riders can summon the police in an
emergency. Along with these, lighting should be greatly improved and
cameras installed that police can monitor for disturbances. And get
those police off farebeating duty on the Dyre Ave. line and just post
one in each unmanned station to watch it over. What ever happened to
the Guardian Angels? Wouldn't it just be easier to leave the token
booth clerk there?
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NEXT>10231
PREVIOUS>10028
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:54 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
In Reply to: [8]Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
& Express runs) posted by Peter Rosa on February 18, 1998 at 13:48:53:
In London, England, there are cases like that. The BR Chiltern line
runs along the Metropolitan main line and the Jubilee line. The BR
line from Fenchurch St. runs along the District line. Although in the
former case, Met line expresses make as few stops as the BR trains.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10198
POSTER>In Reply to: Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Night Service: Beg to Differ
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:55 1998
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In Reply to: Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
In Reply to: [8]Night Service: Beg to Differ posted by Larry
Littlefield on February 18, 1998 at 21:19:53:
While I am sure a financial justification for service cutbacks can
always be constructed, once the 24-7 default goes away the fall off in
other usage is very real. When you can't get home by subway from work
or fun, you either curtail your trips or use other travel means. Wgen
I lived on E 7th between A & B the F(D) was my lifeline especially
when I worked the 5p-1a shift. And aside from the absolute primacy of
steel wheel on rail, even in the sweltering heat of a NY dummer,
waiting underground is preferable to a corner.
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NEXT>10208
PREVIOUS>10134
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: World record
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:57 1998
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In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Darren on February 18, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Re: World record posted by Darren on February 18, 1998
at 15:49:21:
I think that record was set when the late night Rockaways Shuttle was
still running. So, you can still make all stations but the record
won't be the same kind since you won't be able to make all the former
operating sections of the system. Anyway good luck!
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NEXT>10246
PREVIOUS>10191
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:58 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
1998 at 20:53:37:
PCC cars do draw about 450 amps (starting) with the standard 55hp
motors.
Running 3 PCC's in a train draws 1350 starting. Modern subway
equipment and LRV's with larger hp motors will draw much more.
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NEXT>10205
PREVIOUS>10155
POSTER>Has anyone noticed how crowded the subway has become since the
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:46:59 1998
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Has anyone noticed how crowded the subway has become since the
Has anyone noticed how crowded the subway has become since the
metrocard free ride program beganin January??? It is becoming
intollerable. It is estimated that this serious deterioration in the
quality of service is only going to get worse when the TA instates the
monthly and weekly passes this summer. What can be done to drive
riders away from the subway other than this rapid decline in
service???
P.S. The quality of life for pedestrians in mid-town is also facing an
assault from intersection barricades.
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NEXT>10226
PREVIOUS>10184
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:00 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
In Reply to: [7]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by
Andrew Huie on February 18, 1998 at 21:24:17:
I don't think there ever was a time when the fare was $1.10. After the
dollar fare it went straight to $1.15. I remember the JFK Express fare
being $5.75 in the dollar fare days and went up after the next fare
raise.
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NEXT>10214
PREVIOUS>10203
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Jeff Haas
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:02 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Jeff Haas on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: Crowded subways posted by Jeff Haas on February
18, 1998 at 15:44:48:
I have noticed the subway being more crowded in the rush-hour. I
remember when i started using the subway on a daily basis back when
started high school in 1986. For the first four years the subways were
always overcrowded. Then for some reason the ridership seemed to go
down when I started college in 1990. Now I have noticed the ridership
increase even before Metrocard became available throughout the system.
I remember a friend pointing out that, seeing everybody crowding
around the subway doors waiting and slowing going in, looking like
cattle being rounded up for slaughter. Anybody agree.
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NEXT>9994
PREVIOUS>10185
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:03 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
In Reply to: [7]Re: Train to the Plane- laGuardia posted by Steve B on
February 18, 1998 at 08:20:24:
The N train line tracks stop about 200 ft from Ditmars Blvd. There is
no curvature of the tracks. I wish the N line did extend to LaGuardia.
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NEXT>9952
PREVIOUS>10182
POSTER>In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:04 1998
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In Reply to: F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
In Reply to: [7]F line posted by Jimmy on February 18, 1998 at
11:27:35:
I live a couple of blocks from that station and remember when it was
so unsafe that I use the late night 4 or the N/R instead. Nowadays,
You see a bunch of people in suits during rush hours and more people
getting on and off than East Broadway. The TA recently prolonged their
construction time shuttles from W4 to 2Ave and it's working.
especially on weekend'snights, because of the E. village crowd.
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NEXT>10221
PREVIOUS>10201
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Wado
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: World record
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:06 1998
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In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Wado on February 19, 1998
In Reply to: [7]Re: World record posted by Wado on February 19, 1998
at 00:39:09:
Speaking of world records, whatever happened to the ones back in
Nvember/December who were supposed to get together and break the world
record for fastest all-system subway travel.
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NEXT>10210
PREVIOUS>10195
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:07 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
1998 at 22:28:39:
The London system's center rail is actually a ground rail. There is a
fourth rail besides the running rails (usually called the third and
the center one the fourth). So there is no current running on the
running rails, except for the few sections where they share the tracks
with ex- BR tracks.
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NEXT>10213
PREVIOUS>10209
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:08 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Re: Third Rail posted by Mellow One on February 18,
1998 at 22:28:39:
The London system's center rail is actually a ground rail. There is a
fourth rail besides the running rails (usually called the third and
the center one the fourth). So there is no current running on the
running rails, except for the few sections where they share the tracks
with ex- BR tracks.
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NEXT>10234
PREVIOUS>10171
POSTER>In Reply to: Archive Access posted by Mainframe Console
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Archive Access
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:10 1998
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In Reply to: Archive Access posted by Mainframe Console on February
In Reply to: [7]Archive Access posted by Mainframe Console on February
18, 1998 at 19:19:37:
Dial up service is never reliable. You will have to give us more
details about the situation to tell what is causing the problem.
Besides, it is the kind of question you'd better off in a different
newsgroup or ask your ISP...
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NEXT>10235
PREVIOUS>10166
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Mainframe Console on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:11 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Mainframe Console on
In Reply to: [8]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Mainframe Console on
February 18, 1998 at 18:48:16:
I second (Avenue) the motion!
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NEXT>10218
PREVIOUS>10210
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:12 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
1998 at 23:13:02:
I think that the situation in London and south-east England probably
has more to do with fenced tracks and milder winter weather than it
does with neglect of public safety. Apart from the new Docklands Light
Railway, which has under-running third rail like NYCTA; and the former
Manchester to Bury electric line, which had shielded side-contact
third rail, now replaced with overhead line, all significant British
third (and fourth) rail electrifications have used unshielded live
contact rail. The whole of the network in south-east England extending
as far as Bournemouth, Weymouth and Margate still uses 600 to 700 volt
dc unshielded top contact **third** rail, and the system is still
being extended. So does the Merseyrail local network in north-west
England. London Underground uses a four rail system, as already
described on this post, although in fact the centre rail is *below*
earth potential. The running rails carry signalling current, so
theoretically all rails can give a shock!
But of course all our tracks are (or should be) securely fenced, and
this brings something of a cultural difference in discouraging people
from entering the right-of-way. Invariable high platforms also make it
much more difficult for passengers to get onto the track other than by
accident. Finally bad snow is relatively rare (there has been none so
far this winter) and so the need for shielding is less.
Of course if you tried to introduce anything like this now, the safety
lobby would prevent it!
Good wishes,
Geoff
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NEXT>10227
PREVIOUS>10205
POSTER>In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C.
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:14 1998
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In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
1998 at 10:20:04:
What in the world can you mean? You mean that there is a problem that
the subways are getting popular and used again? This is not a problem,
but a good thing. I was on the #1 train Monday at 9:00 PM and every
seat was taken. This is good. This provides money and political will
to increase spending on the system, possibly run more trains, hire
more motorman and conductors, improve the ambience, possibly even have
money and political will to build new Manhattan subway lines.
Overcrowding on some lines can be decreased by expanding service.
Remember there is still an unused express track under Broadway that
could handle rush hour service from Whitehall Street to Queens. There
is also an underused local track under 6th Avenue that could take
extra service from 2nd Avenue or Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Queens /or
Washington Hts if necessary, etc. When the Lenox repair is complete,
overcrowding may diminish somewhat. But crowded subways in this day
and age are considered a good sign.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10178
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: F line + Food posted by Joe M
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: F line + Food
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:15 1998
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In Reply to: Re: F line + Food posted by Joe M on February 18, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: F line + Food posted by Joe M on February 18, 1998
at 20:42:28:
Even a real Coney Island Nathan's hot dog would suffice...
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NEXT>9928
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail in Philadelphia
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:17 1998
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In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
1998 at 20:31:27:
The Market Frankford Line looks like the 3rd rail is exposed, but
because the shoe on the train runs under the rail, the other 3 sides
are coverd in insulation. The Broad Street Subway has a wooden cover
over the 3rd rail and the shoe runs over the rail, under the wood, as
in NYC.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10189
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Andrew Huie on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:18 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train posted by Andrew Huie on
In Reply to: [8]Re: The First Plane Train posted by Andrew Huie on
February 18, 1998 at 22:13:18:
The JFK Express had it's own little fleet of R-46's from #1201 - 1246
(Rememer - even numbers only from 1228-1278). I've seen R-46's (4 car)
from the E & F lines operate on the JFK Express a few times. At times
during the early 1980's R-38's would occasionally operate on the JFK
Express. During it's last days the R-46's were replaced by R-44's.
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NEXT>10254
PREVIOUS>10213
POSTER>In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:19 1998
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In Reply to: Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Third Rail posted by Philip Nasadowski on February 18,
1998 at 20:31:27:
I think the biggest danger with a live rail under the platform is that
anyone falling onto the tracks with a train coming would be tempted to
dive under the platform. In NYC, that would probably be a good idea.
In Boston, blamo!
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NEXT>9932
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>I have a plan to reduce trash
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>F Line Plan
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:20 1998
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I have a plan to reduce trash on the F Line, Famous for being hip deep
I have a plan to reduce trash on the F Line, Famous for being hip deep
in garbage. By adding express service on the unused lower level, they
could divide the mountains of waste in half! That way, riders would
only be knee deep on either the local or the express! Transit
Authorities need to explore this as a sanitation/quality of life
option for the systems most littered line.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10127
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Hank
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:22 1998
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In Reply to: Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Hank
In Reply to: [8]Re: JFKFlyer et all Long post posted by Hank
Eisenstein on February 18, 1998 at 01:39:30:
I seriously doubt that the new MCI's would be used as they are
intercity coaches in suburban configuration (one door, narrow aisle
with all forward facing seats. I do think it would be a good idea to
dedicate a few buses to the M60 route and provide space for luggage -
similar to the GMC RTS's that the NYCTA used to shuttle passengers
from the JFK Express at Howard Beach to the terminals.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10208
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Al
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: World record
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:23 1998
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In Reply to: Re: World record posted by Al on February 19, 1998 at
In Reply to: [8]Re: World record posted by Al on February 19, 1998 at
02:13:23:
The hold-up is coming from Guiness. In order to make official, contact
with Guiness was, and still is, necessary. There are a lot of
questions that they need to iron out, such as, do we need to stop at
all stations, or just passing thru on an express run count, and what
about the Aquduct Racetrack station..how is that approached. Also,
Guiness needs to be notified so that all the necessary documentation
is taken care of so as to make it an "official record" that will
appear in the books.
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NEXT>10242
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>Lately, those 3 items have been brought up in several, but separate
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:24 1998
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Lately, those 3 items have been brought up in several, but separate
Lately, those 3 items have been brought up in several, but separate
Subtalk discussions....Rutgers, as a way, through a little bit of
construction, to bypass the Manhatten Bridge altogether........Bowery,
how underused the station is.......and Grand, if the Manhatten Bridge
is closed completely, what will happen to the customers that use this
vital station...............In my opinion, the Grand & Bowery stations
are not that far apart, so, why couldn't Grand be shut down and the
customers use the Bowery station? Granted, it's 2 sep. lines headed in
2 directions, but, a transfer at Canal & if they could restore
Broadway express from say, Canal northward, it may not be such a bad
deal. This way , BAM, as Emeril (the chef) would say, no more Man. Br.
woes, increase revenue @ Bowery, and maybe X-press service to satisfy
all............Your thoughts pleeeez---I could be dead wrong------just
an idea. Or maybe, (another thought or should I say..dream) declare
the closure of Grand temporary (like the Manhatten Bridge..HA) while
construction of the 2nd Ave. subway resumes..since thanks to increased
ridership, the MTA will have more $$$$$...hold back the laughter from
the last thought......it's early.
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NEXT>9931
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail ALIVE
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:25 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail posted by Peter Rosa on February 18,
1998 at 23:13:02:
I know when they leave the 3rd rail exposed (wood cover off) for any
period of time MOW crews put up a sign that says "THRID RAIL ALIVE". I
assume this means that the 3rd rail is uncovered since it is for most
part always live .
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10196
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by Dan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:26 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by Dan
In Reply to: [8]Re: Rockaway double fare: An explanation posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 18, 1998 at 23:03:54:
The double fare on the Rockaway Line was lifted when the regular fare
went to 50 cents in 1975. I read that a premium fare was implemented
in 1978. BTW, if you look at the 1964 map on this website, you'll see
"15-cent extra fare below this point" next to the Rockaway Line. Ah,
the good old days...
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NEXT>9979
PREVIOUS>10154
POSTER>Hey this is David and would like it if you could send me some good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>inquire
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:28 1998
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Hey this is David and would like it if you could send me some good
Hey this is David and would like it if you could send me some good
work on walls and trains.
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NEXT>9947
PREVIOUS>10204
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Wado
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:29 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Wado
In Reply to: [8]Re: The First Plane Train + Shuttle Bus posted by Wado
on February 19, 1998 at 01:03:58:
I also remember that local residents and employees at JFK could ride
by paying the Express Bus fare in addition to the subway fare... I
think.
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NEXT>10247
PREVIOUS>10214
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:30 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert on February 19,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Crowded subways posted by Albert on February 19,
1998 at 01:38:14:
Try riding the Lexington Ave. line during rush hour if you want to see
something resembling cattle trains. Bronx-bound D trains during rush
hour are also fun to ride if you like seeing people packed like
sardines.
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NEXT>10233
PREVIOUS>10197
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:32 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by James Tesoriero on February 18, 1998 at 19:27:26:
Yes, some of the R-32s did have cracks in the door frames. Hopefully,
they'll still be around for a while. I have to admit they're a
sentimental favorite of mine, as I remember when they were
brand-spanking new. I especially miss the blue doors.
I also understand that a lot of the slant R-40s were scrapped even
before they were rebuilt. Is it true that only 200-250 of them are
still around?
Of course, deferred maintenance won't prolong the life of anything,
whether it's an automobile or a subway car.
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NEXT>9941
PREVIOUS>10186
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Fred Wellman on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Boston & Express runs
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:35 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Fred Wellman on
In Reply to: [8]Re: Boston & Express runs posted by Fred Wellman on
February 18, 1998 at 21:42:45:
The Orange Line runs in an open cut from Massachusetts Avenue all the
way to its southern terminus, Forest Hills.
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NEXT>9967
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>I am looking for some information
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Anybody got some pointers to Metro North Signal Aspects?
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:36 1998
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I am looking for some information on Metro North Signal aspects. Can
I am looking for some information on Metro North Signal aspects. Can
anyone help? If it matters, I'm interested in the Harlem Line. What
does a dwarf
signal with flashing green on top and red on the bottom mean? etc
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NEXT>10248
PREVIOUS>10199
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:37 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
In Reply to: [8]Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
& Express runs) posted by Peter Rosa on February 18, 1998 at 13:48:53:
Willets Point - Shea Stadium also has stops on the 7 and LIRR.
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NEXT>9937
PREVIOUS>10193
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by faxman
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Newark Subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:38 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Newark Subway posted by faxman on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Newark Subway posted by faxman on February 18,
1998 at 23:00:09:
The Newark subway is one of the best kept secrets in greater New York.
A good stretch of it uses the bed of the old Morris Canal. And, yes,
it still uses PCCs which were bought from Minneapolis in 1952-53. I
understand they're sceduled to be replaced next year with LRVs. The
nice thing about this line is that it operates on its own ROW, not on
city streets, and doesn't have to compete with vehicular traffic.
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NEXT>10237
PREVIOUS>10228
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:40 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Steve B on February 19, 1998 at 11:23:40:
Typically, Stainless steel will last longer than any normal bodywork
with the exception of aluminum. Plastic isn't practical. What
determines the life of a subway car is how well the body and frame
stand up to time. Mechanical componants can be replaced 1,000 times,
but once the body starts to go, there's almost no stopping it.
I remember reading abut the original LIRR bi-levels a few years ago,
and how the corroded themselves to death, as they were built of 2
different types of metal. They formed a natural battery.
As for the R40/42, they hae proven unreliably in service, mechanically
and structurally. The rebuild saved them a few more years of service.
As for car ages, the
R26/28/29/33/36 are more than 30 years old, the youngest being the
R36, which are 34 years old. The R26 are 39!
To contrast, the ytoungest InD car is the R32, at 34 The IND/BMT
redbirds (R27/30) have all been retired.
-Hank
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10211
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Archive Access posted by Wado
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Archive Access
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:41 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Archive Access posted by Wado on February 19, 1998
In Reply to: [8]Re: Archive Access posted by Wado on February 19, 1998
at 02:24:27:
I was able to read the entire archive via newsgroup when I had the
cable modem. Now, I want to know how to search and/or read portions of
it instead of acquiring the whole thing at once via dial-up.
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NEXT>10251
PREVIOUS>10212
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:42 1998
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In Reply to: Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B on February
In Reply to: [7]Re: The 3rd avenue El posted by Steve B on February
18, 1998 at 17:17:03:
A bond issue was done in the '50s to earmark funds for the 2nd Ave
subway, but that money was deferred to maintenance of existing lines
(which were deteriorating). I think a few other bond issues were made
and the last of them weren't passed because the public got fed up with
these funds being transferred to other purposes. Construction on the
2nd Ave subway began in '72 but ended a few years later due to the
70's fiscal crisis. Although considered an active project (still!) by
NYC Transit, most people in this forum feel that this line will never
see the light of day, so to speak.
--Mark
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NEXT>9964
PREVIOUS>10175
POSTER>While riding out to Far Rockaway last week, I had a guy tell me they
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>rockaway double fare
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:43 1998
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While riding out to Far Rockaway last week, I had a guy tell me they
While riding out to Far Rockaway last week, I had a guy tell me they
used
to collect a double fare past Broad Channel. Was he pulling my leg? If
true, how was this done?
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NEXT>10244
PREVIOUS>10233
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:45 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Adam on February 18, 1998 at 18:33:30:
The NY Transit Museum tried to auction off an R-22 a few years ago for
the whopping price of $3000, shipping left to the new owner. No
takers.
I suppose you'll get your chance when the last of the redbirds are
finally retired; there are so many of them.
But where woudl you put it? It's too small to be a diner :)
-Mark
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NEXT>10239
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>It has just been reported
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:46 1998
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It has just been reported on NPR that the FBI arrested, in one of the
It has just been reported on NPR that the FBI arrested, in one of the
western states (they said which one, but I have forgotten it), two
white supremacists who were plotting to attack the NYC subway with
bacteria.
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NEXT>9951
PREVIOUS>10238
POSTER>In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:47 1998
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In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
In Reply to: [8]News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
posted by John B. Bredin on February 19, 1998 at 13:11:44:
You mean they found a bacteria that could survive in the subway??
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10088
POSTER>In Reply to: West of Hudson Metro-North (Was Re: SIRT cars and BMT
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: West of Hudson Metro-North (Was Re: SIRT cars and BMT standards)
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:49 1998
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In Reply to: West of Hudson Metro-North (Was Re: SIRT cars and BMT
In Reply to: [8]West of Hudson Metro-North (Was Re: SIRT cars and BMT
standards) posted by John B. Bredin on February 17, 1998 at 11:17:14:
>1- Njt would still run the Main Line from Suffern south-they own the
ROW 2- since when has practicality ever meant anything to these
people??
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NEXT>10245
PREVIOUS>10156
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:51 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
In Reply to: [8]Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
on February 18, 1998 at 17:28:49:
I have no idea what this is thread is in reference to. But the
statement "[A]fter we found out what Steve is..." is troubling. People
should be punished for what they do, if they do something wrong, not
for what they are. Whatever he is, I expect it is largely what his
parents and the rest of his family (including his uncle) helped to
make him.
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NEXT>9927
PREVIOUS>10222
POSTER>In Reply to: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by Mark
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:52 1998
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In Reply to: Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by Mark
In Reply to: [8]Grand St., Bowery & the Rutgers tunnel posted by Mark
Grenwald on February 19, 1998 at 10:21:43:
If the trains remained on the current F route in Manhattan and only
the Brooklyn connection was made from the Rutgers tunnel to DeKalb Av.
(which is the official plan), then it would be a simple transfer at
Essex St./Delancey St., one stop from the Bowery station, to return to
the lines that used to service Grand St.
There is also the possibility (unlikely) of building a reverse
counterpart to the currently unused "KK" tracks, making the connection
into a kind of "wye", so that trains could run from Broadway-Lafayette
directly to...Bowery.
Finally, since Grand St. and Bowery stations are so close, why not
build a passageway from the current entrance to Grand St. station
(there is only one) to the Bowery station?
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NEXT>9943
PREVIOUS>10124
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:54 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
In Reply to: [8]Re: Read This Scenario !!!..Not Platforming posted by
Steve on February 17, 1998 at 21:42:56:
which makes wonder when the BMT had different stopping positions on
the Broadway line for each of the main lines (i.e. Sea Beach,
Brighton,etc)_ for those who don't know- the BMT used to have strung
out over the platforms at Times Sq,34th st,& 14th sts little markers
to tell the passengers where the doors were going to be for the EACH
of the express services stopping at those stations!!Something that I
really would want to see actually work....supposedly, it did!
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NEXT>9963
PREVIOUS>10237
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good Idea..
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:55 1998
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In Reply to: Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
In Reply to: [8]Re: R-62's Replacing The Redbirds: Might Not Be A Good
Idea.. posted by Mark S Feinman on February 19, 1998 at 13:11:29:
An earlier post on this subject suggested that the Seashore Trolley
Museum might acquire some Redbirds when they are retired. While I
can't speak officially for the Museum (since we haven't discussed the
subject; I'm a member of the Executive Committee and Vice Chairman of
Operations, Safety, and Training), I can tell you a bit about the
costs involved.
I was a donor to the move of R4/R7 cars 800/1440 back in the late
80's. More recently, I was a co-sponsor for the acquisition and move
of two Chicago 6000 series rapid transit cars. I don't recall the
total cost of the IND cars, but the Chicago cars cost us close to
$10,000 for acquisition, trucking, insurance, etc. For something like
this to happen, we need many donors with deep pockets. Another problem
is that we are at saturation on our railroad, and in desparate need of
building more track and covered barns for our collection. We need more
volunteers, more money, and less goverment regulation (environmental
impact requirements, etc.).
So whether we acquire the 'birds is *ahem* very much up in the air.
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NEXT>10252
PREVIOUS>10241
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Dan
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:56 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Dan
In Reply to: [7]Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Dan
Schwartz on February 19, 1998 at 13:51:57:
I apologize for any miscontstrument. It was supposed to say" what
Steve did." Sorry.
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NEXT>9975
PREVIOUS>10202
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe
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SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail Current
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:57 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
In Reply to: [8]Re: Third Rail Current posted by Joe on February 18,
1998 at 20:53:37:
Someone (I can't seem to find the right message now) said that a
subway car, when it is accelerating, can draw over 500 apmsp from the
third rail, I think he said 515. That means over 5000 amps for a
10-car train. At 600 volts DC, that means over 3 million watts of
power. Three megawatts. That's at least enough to run all the homes
and businesses in a small town; it means that even in built-up areas,
one subway train can draw as much power as all the surrounding
buildings for several blocks around. Is this really possible? I know
this is for train start-up; for how long is this kind of current/power
drawn, and what is a more typical current drain for a train cruising
at a steady speed? Also, I'd be curious to know what fraction of NYC's
total electrical use is drawn by the subway. If these figures are
right, it must be a significant percentage.
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NEXT>9988
PREVIOUS>10227
POSTER>In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C.
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SUBJECT>Re: Crowded subways
DATE>Mar 1 14:47:59 1998
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In Reply to: Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
In Reply to: [7]Crowded subways posted by Chris C. on February 18,
1998 at 10:20:04:
I wrote a letter last year suggesting that the TA lower the off-peak
fare to 75 cents, rather than providing the 10 for 11 discount and
monthly passes. This would not only have encouraged even more riders
to take discresionary trips off peak, when capacity is available, but
also might have encouraged employers to shift work hours for low wage
workers to give them a raise, reducing crowding on peak.
The monthly pass provides no incentive to shift from peak to off peak
travel. It provides an incentive to take additional transit trips, but
only for those who already use transit five days per week. The
self-employed, free-lancers, and non-working spouses and children do
not get an off-peak break.
The politically active transit advocates wanted a monthly pass,
however, so we got a monthly pass.
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NEXT>9926
PREVIOUS>10231
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
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SUBJECT>Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston & Express runs)
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:00 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
In Reply to: [8]Re: Parallel commuter lines & subways (Was Re: Boston
& Express runs) posted by Steve B on February 19, 1998 at 12:09:02:
> Willets Point - Shea Stadium also has stops on the 7 and LIRR.
That's true, but the LIRR's stop is only used for stadium events.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>More from the wires re: Feds block attack on subway
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:01 1998
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In Reply to: News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
In Reply to: [8]News hot off the wire: Feds block attack on subway
posted by John B. Bredin on February 19, 1998 at 13:11:44:
What I posted earlier was the grand total of what the radio announcer
said. Not very useful.
But on the NY Times web site, they have the AP dispatches, including
the following, more detailed, report:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/a/AP-Subway-Plot.html
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NEXT>9949
PREVIOUS>0
POSTER>At the start of Saturday Night Fever the scene is a street with an
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SUBJECT>Saturday Night Fever
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:03 1998
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At the start of Saturday Night Fever the scene is a street with an
At the start of Saturday Night Fever the scene is a street with an
elevated subway in. Does anyone know where this is ?
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NEXT>9940
PREVIOUS>10235
POSTER>In Reply to: The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: The 3rd avenue El
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:04 1998
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In Reply to: The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
In Reply to: [7]The 3rd avenue El posted by Conducter Johanes on
February 18, 1998 at 12:53:15:
An easy way to get a feel for what the third ave El looked like is to
catch a showing of the original King Kong (1930's).
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NEXT>9935
PREVIOUS>10245
POSTER>In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
EMAIL>
SUBJECT>Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy?
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:05 1998
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In Reply to: Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
In Reply to: [7]Re: Hey, Marek? Where are you, buddy? posted by Darren
on February 19, 1998 at 14:23:57:
Steve can be a handful, but his family( and that includes me) love him
and try to improve his behavior. It won't be a very good for him to
have such an attitude in the real world when he has to deal with
bosses who won't tolerate such things. But we try.
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NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10176
POSTER>In Reply to: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
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SUBJECT>Re: Danger ! - Exposed third rail
DATE>Mar 1 14:48:06 1998
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In Reply to: Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
In Reply to: [7]Danger ! - Exposed third rail posted by Doug from
Boston on February 18, 1998 at 19:49:52:
No I have not, but that is serious. In my opinion, it's good that some
folks with knowledge of how subways work( or should work) speaks up to
protect other people. However, I have seen potentially hazardous
situations on the Philadelphia subway. I doubt I have to tell you that
they have this obsession with putting the third rail under platforms
where I have seen homeless try to go sometimes, unfortunately. When
they rebuild the Market-Frankford El this year I hope that they will
have enough sense to at least cover the rail. I have seen some
sections of the rail exposed from beneath it's flimsy plastic cover. I
wonder how the tunnel workers feel about that.
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NEXT>10255
PREVIOUS>10218
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
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SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE> ::
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References: <6dcduu$dsk$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
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The third rail in Grand Central Terminal's track, now being
replaced, is exposed. I'm not sure if it will be protected, but now,
the new rail is currently exposed.
NEXT>
PREVIOUS>10254
POSTER>jamesrr@psu.edu
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SUBJECT>Re: Third Rail
DATE> ::
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References: <6dce00$dus$1@quartz.quuxuum.org>
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NYC subways all use over-contact third rail, as the LIRR does. Only
Metro-North out of GCT uses under-contact third rail. I believe
Philadelphia uses both on its subway lines, and Chicago and Washington
use over-contact rail.
https://www.nycsubway.org/articles/talks/oldsubtalk-9000.html
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