S95: RIP
B11 N7 S95 27
Some things do not die easily. True busfans, unite to revive the abused bus routes of Montgomery County!
-Chris
~~Kevin
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Plus, I wonder where they came up with Fazulli anyway, or thats probably just his name. But why Doctor?
-Chris
Even funnier was the placement of bus driver Ben Stein, who played as himself behind the wheel. Always interesting to find realistic buses in cartoons.
-F.
The other was a complete shocker. I saw two what appears to be experimental buses sitting in the lot across the Landover division in the front of Carmen E. Turner employee parking area. One was a New Flyer DE40LF(similiar to the one I saw there about 6 months ago,but this one was to WMATA specs). The second one was an MCI cruiser about 45 feet in length with an odd WMATA paint scheme. I guess within the next two weeks we might see these buses in service on some routes. Well we shall see.
Oh well I got my April Fool today when I boarded a bus I thought was going to New Carrolton and it said New Carrolton, but it was going to Silver Spring. On top of that it was raining and cold.
Now back to my other April Fools prank, hehehehe.
Contact me via email for his email address, or search his (FDNY) posts for the information he supplies.
JD
They dominated WMATA in 1996? Maybe in DC, but not in the suburbs...that was Flxible territory...in the early 90's they were a significant part, though.
Whoops - I meant when I visited in 1986, not 1996.
JD
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
Hopefully we'll see each other once again...
Until next time...
Ah, I have arrived at the land of Flxibles and Orions once more...
To Be Sold:
1984 GMC RTS-04: 3474, 3503
1985 GMC RTS-04: 3893, 3972, 4115, 4163, 4165, 4218
1986 GMC RTS-06: 4320, 4451, 4486, 4520, 4548, 4552
1987 TMC RTS-06: 4764, 4799, 4805, 4829, 4849, 4877, 4883, 4886
Either this is true or this is a very sick April Fool's joke!!!
Ray
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
B1-#9303-NOVABUS
B1-#9318-NOVABUS
Mark
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
If my posts regarding that subject annoyed people, then I won't make anymore posts on it. I posted b/c I was a bit surprised but then again, we should expect the unexpected.
BIG AL
I actually update the roster everyday, but I don't send it out unless I feel 100% comfortable. I try to get it out at least twice a month. I'll add you to the mailing list.
Mark
BIG AL
http://www.transitalk.info/Rosters/NYCT-Busb.html
Acela
Want some fun? Go and find the ship, take pictures and send them to me, you'll get a reward!
The ship suppose to arrive Rochester, NY!
http://www.wnbc.com/news/2966949/detail.html
FOLKS, TAKE A VISIT AND TAKE PHOTOS IF YOU CAN!!
On another note, the B/O that I had this morning flat out ran a red light ( it was red from we were a block away). He even honked at the people crossing the street ( and they had the walk sign). BUT I managed to get to school on time, so hey...
Any thoughts?
Bx31 1096
Bx31 7666
It unbolts from one side and unhinges from another.
I was really hoping they would wait until Millennium Transit Services would get the RTS back into production, but it looks like they have an option to purchase more Gilligs for the next new order.
Just another LAME April Fool's Day attempt.
-F.
If that is so, then I guess NYCTA is turning away from Orion due to the slow delivery of the VII's.
Arthur
APRIL FOOL, EVERYONE!!! :P
-F.
But I surely remember the time a priest ripped a good loud one in church when I was about 15 years old. The whole audience gasped...and I was trying not to bust out laughing.
-F.
Honolulu?
Port Angeles, washington???? (Nah, they already have crappy buses -- a lot of Gilligs)
Someplace else?
-F.
What would have been better was if NYCT were to order Veguzti minibuses (or transit buses, period...or even motorcoaches...yes, Veguzti makes all of that)...
Better yet, CUTAWAYS!
Incognito
April Fools, My Ass!
-F.
Gilligs?!?!
dude u gots to be kiddin me.......
well i didnt get a chance to ride no buses in
Cleveland.....was too busy. Gilligs....dayum! that
means we gettin full sized 102 inch wide 40 ffot
Gilligs!!!! i hope they'll have an ISM in them!i knew
the 9300s were goin.....they have'in tranny problems.
the 9000s and 9100s are on there way and the
9200s...its just a matter of time.never knew they'd
kick the loop buses out though....looks like the 9400s
and 9500s are the only ones left....dayum!
Gilligs......oh well....its bound to happen.
I can't wait to hear what he has to say when he finds out I was pulling his leg...LOL!!! :P
-F.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
Peeeeeeyel,what an awful
smell!!!
Also, 8005 is in ENY.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
FP's 1990 RTS's are as follows: 8003, 8006-8008, 8011, 8012, 8015, 8100, 8101, 8106, 8109-8112, 8116-8118, 8120, 8125-8127, 8130-8141, 8146-8148, 8151(die!), 8153, 8161, 8169, 8271, 8280(42)
I don't care which buses go where as long it doesn't help any of the 3 depots get buses newer than 1990.
The Artic order and CNG O7 order has failed to finish off the pre-1990 buses in Brooklyn. If fact, there are like 200 of them left! I guess those orders are too busy helping out Manhattan and the Bx as they gotten rid of almost all of their pre-1990 buses already. Some things never change.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
As for for pre-1990 buses in the Brooklyn Div., the RTS exclusivity that exists here will hopefully die soon, that is if the Hybrid ever starts, which we'll be lucky to see to happen in 2005, if not, much later!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Comming back though, I'm looking at possibly taking Septa R6(?) from Merion to Doylestown, then Trans Bridge to PABT from the Doylstown SEPTA station. It's pretty damn cheap too.
Just wondering if anyone has any experience with transbridge(or the Mt laurel or Doylestown areas). How early should I get there?
Also, any suggestions for any part of the trip in general would be appreciated.
I did the route through Doylestown that you are talking about a year or two back, but did it in reverse (i.e., I started from PABT). Thus, I am probably not able to be of much help, although the on the trip that day, the Trans Bridge bus stayed pretty close to schedule, falling behind a little only due to traffic. The bus part of the trip was quite enjoyable, and Trans Bridge seems to keep its equipment in decent shape. The bus dropped us off right at the Doylestown SEPTA station, so I assume the pickup point is nearby also.
Greyhound to/from Phili
Capitol Trailways to/from King of Prussia
Trans Bridge to/from Doylestown
Anyone know any other bus stops near Merion, Pa???(bout 10 min from Phili)
Although those on SubTalk may like this option better than us BusTalk folks, I would recommend taking NJTransit's NE Corridor train to or from Trenton, and combining that with the new River Line to or from Walter Rand Transportation Center in Camden. The River Line offers a very nice ride. The fare for the River Line is only $1.10. For $1.85, you can purchase a combination ticket in Trenton that will get you to Camden and then use any NJT bus from Camden into Philadelphia. Alternately, you can take PATCO from Camden into Philly for $1.15.
If you really want to try an excursion, consider Bieber Tourways from the PA Terminal to Reading and then back to Phila on Capitol Trailways.
I am planning on doing this sometime in the future and IINM, the best timing to do this is to take the Beiber bus leaving the PA at 8 AM, arriving in Reading a little after 11, then the Cap Trailways leaves there about 11:50 or so and arrives at the Greyhound Terminal in Phila around 2-2:30.
What else... you could go NJ Transit and take the 319 to Atlantic City and then the 551 to Philadelphia.
But personally, I'd try the Trans-Bridge/R5 first. It's a nice ride and I'm sure you'd enjoy it. And then you could do the 551/319 on the way back.
To replace all the remaininmg Flxibles would require an order of approximately 625 units. NJT's question has to be, which manufacturer is stable enough to produce that many buses in the timeframe required, with the backing needed to be around for the life cycle. Neoplan is not in great shape. Millennium is a start-up even though the employees will essentially be the former Nova folks in Roswell. NABI is leaning low-floor. Orion is owned by DaimlerChrysler, so that could be the most viable in terms of being around for the distance.
The Metro-Ds can't be replaced until 2006 at the earliest, so they wouldn't be part of this order. There are 318 Metro-Ds purchased by NJT in 1994. The request for proposals probably wouldn't be issued until 2006-07 at the earlies.
Robert
Robert
Please be advised that the MNYBA trips frequently sell out in advance, so it probably is unwise to show up if you haven't already sent in your form and your money. By the way, I plan to be on the trip tomorrow. Let's hope the weather stays dry!
Incognito
-F.
Incognito
Ride Da 'Hound!
18xx-27xx: MC-12s (6V92-powered)
28xx-31xx: MC-12s (Series 50 powered)
62xx-63xx: DL3s
10xx: DL3s
70xx-72xx: G-Series
Hope this helps!
-F.
Wheelchair buses are:
0034 - 0038
0044 - 0053
0500 - 0503
1050 - 1068
6500 - 6614
Transfers are:
1060 - 1063 Amtrak shuttle bus in Californya
6007 - 6018,6133 - 6136,6427 - 6432 and 6434 to Greyhound Canada
6900 - 6960 and 6964 to Lation Bus Lines in Chi town.
Sold Buses:
1525 - 1803
If there is any more please feel free to add or correct me on anything. Thanks
Bx31 # 1083
Bx31 # 7655
Bx28 # 5278
Bx41 # 5696
Da Hui
Also to add injury to insult, recently in the past week or so, in Sacremento, two girls were pushed out of a moving Orion VII Bus' rear door. The Rear Door Gave way, this WASN'T SUPPOSED to happen. So this is one of the major defects in the Orion VII.
Slow Acceleration can be reset in the Detroit Diesel DDEC. As for the braking........Reset the rate that the retarder pumps hydraulic fluid into the tranny.
Some of these problems are Orion's Fault and some are the TA's fault in trying to slow buses to a crawl! I can attest, thes Orion VIIs are fast, I tried to chase one in my car and he burned the shit outta me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.info
I believe that they are in fact governed, not to mention that the acceleration is average but the speed isn't so bad :-\.
Look at that! Complete with european license plate! Even if you hate buses you can't say that ain't gorgeous!
Guess the bus and anything else about the bus!
I used to drive a 1986 Neoplan Cityliner, and believe me, it was muchbetter looking.
It's Monkey Vomit Yellow!!!
-F.
Okey, the color sucks, but look at the vitural tour, it's really nice! Has a bathroom downstairs!
Anyway, you think that's ugly, you ever see a new flyer?
-F.
I remember seeing a computer rendering in some car magazine a few years back that looked almost exactly like that bus....
On that note, there are MUCH uglier buses out there....for example, the prototype buses that led to the Grumman 870 and Flxible Metro were COMPLETELY hideous, and looked NOTHING like the end result...their Transbus prototype was an eight-wheeled monstrosity, the High Value Bus looked like a mutated bread truck, and the one made just before the production prototype looked like the love child of a Flxible Metro and an Orion I. I don't know if there are any photos of these things online, but they are in the book "Flxible Transit Buses 1953-1995; A Photo Archive" by John McKane.
Thankfully, the latter-day Flxibles turned out to be MUCH better looking than any of the turds mentioned above.
-F.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
So then I transfer to the Bx21 @ Tremont Av, I just missed 9112 and I see a couple of GH buses with the interior #'s written with a white marker [like 5394], 199 on the Bx42, 1085 & 5251 on the Bx36 and an RTS on the Bx9. Then I get on 461 and ride that to the last stop, just missed the Bx8 so luckily its not running at 1/2 hour intervals 8-). I waited 12 minutes and I saw a freshly painted 418 going into service on either the Bx21 or 31 and then I catch 8778 on the Bx8 and its a mellow ride along Williamsbridge/Bronxdale Av to the las stop at 226 St so I catch the 2 train, ride that to Tremont Av then get the Q44 to Jamaica and I see 8460 on the Q24 so it takes less than 30 minutes to reach Brooklyn and then I get off to catch the J.
So I wait at B'way/Eastern, saw a couple of L trains and then I rode the J to Myrtle Av, just missed a B46 then waited about 8-10 minutes for 9437 to arrive and by time we reach Fulton St, the bus is nearly jam packed and then the LTD behind us, 4643 catches up to us by Empire Blvd but we manage to pass it anyway and when I get off at Avenue D there is a crowd of people waiting for the B8 and this is too commmonplace. Anyway When the bus pulled in, it was crush loaded! All standing room was taken, people try to squeeze in even though thye know they can't get in and we pass a few stops then things get more better as we go along the way until I reach my stopand finish my trip.
R40M 4463 (B)
RTS 8800 Bx15
O7 7657 Bx6
RTS 9123 Bx17
RTS 9226 Bx36
O5 461 Bx21
RTS 8778 Bx8
R142 7022 (2)
O5 677 Q44
RTS 8460 Q24
R42 4788 (J)
RTS 9437 B46 LTD
NF 971 B8
Bx31 # 1083
Bx31 # 7655
Bx28 # 5278
Bx41 # 5696
I dont know what that Bx36 thing is all about, but sure nuff the new artics at KB are starting to look like shit.Not really a surprise.lol. What happen to 971 that the cloth is black now?
Bx31 # 7668
Bx31 # 7655
Bx31 # 7660
Bx31 # 7655
Bx31 # 7668
Bx31 # 7680
Bx21 # 7670
Bx31 # 7660
Bx31 # 7655
Bx31 # 7668
Bx31 # 7682
Bx4 # 5349
Bx21 # 449
Bx31 # 434
4/1/04
Q55- RTS #5062
Q10- OrionV #5512
Q46- OrionV #518
Q85- RTS #8951
Q5- RTS #9262
Q56- RTS #9074
Q55- RTS #9480(my new favorite in FP)
4/2/04
B13- RTS #8542
Q55- RTS #9476
They all do. However, note the tailpipes on buses 416 and 444. They were moved to the top. The buses do not look re-engined, however; that is the only odd thing about them.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.coM)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I hate Gun Hill. They suck!
It's still a novelty to see low-floors operating so far from JG territory- where most riders have gotten used to them. Some young'uns on the BX6 I rode yesterday were absolutely fascinated with the prospect of a bus having an 'upstairs' and 'downstairs'. Personally, I'm striving to ride the O7s on such routes as the 8, 14 and 31- where they must look amusingly incongruous running on quiet, narrow residential streets. Even an older Orion looks enormous on the Spencer Estates portion of the 14. Most JG routes seem to run on wide, commercial streets with the exceptions of parts of the B11, 16, 65 and 77.
As far as I can see, the depots that run more than one kind of equipment on the same local routes are GH, QV, YUK (RTS/Orion), GLE (CNG Orion/New Flyer/O7) and WF. Supposedly MJQ mixes in Suburban Orions with RTS on its 'quieter' routes, but I've never seen one.
So does MV and MCH even though there are few O6's. Also from time to time you may see an RTS on the Artic routes from Kingsbridge, just on Friday I saw RTS 8833 on the Bx9, which is virtually 100% Artic.
Bx31 # 7660
I've ridden the BX6, 19, 35 and 36 across the heart of 'Ghetto Bronx' during the day on weekends, and transferred at University/Tremont, Concourse/167, Southern/Hunts Point and the West Farms Road terminal. The neighborhoods along the routes looked pretty rough, but lively. No one whatsoever bothered me on the buses or the above transfer points.
It looks like the 11, 15 and 17 run through some rough areas as well. I've been on the 21 between West Farms and Westchester Square, a decent area- but am very unlikely to ride the part of that route between West Farms and Mott Haven. It's said that the portion of the 27 between Morrison station and Clason's Point is very unsafe now. The 8 may be questionable above Allerton Avenue, but is decent below-and downright tranquil from Buhre station to Locust Point. Likewise the 14. If you woke up while riding it in Spencer Estates you'd swear you were on Staten Island.
Yes, WF is definitely a plus for the Bronx Division. Other than Artics, there's was nothing else worth looking at. Amsterdam was nothing special. But dominance of Orions is making it better.
I do plan on taking more WF's routes someday, and I'm also thinking of taking GH's Bx29.
1-Take over of the DOT lines by the TA(If it happens)
2-When Mother Hale Depot is closed for reconstruction.
Once Mother Hale Depot is reopened then Amsterdam will be permantley closed
Thank You
B1-#4651-TMC
Q55-#9462-NOVABUS
Q29-#2071-TMCRTS CNG-that's the bus i reported
I think he would receive a lot more than a repremand if a dispatcher saw him. Depending on his disciplinary record, he could well be looking at termination.
The radio system at the transit agency where I drive isn't worth a shit, you could die of old age by the time dispatchers get back to you on it (if it works at all...great system, installed two years ago by Orbital Communications, SOMEONE got their pockets lined).
Anyhow, I do more communicating with dispatcher via my own cell phone while in the bus, when situations occur, than I do on the worthless radio system. And we are very much permitted to do so. (That's the ONLY use of cell phones while driving, no othe ruse permitted.)
Oh, and it has GPS, too -- supposedly able to track us within three feet of the location of the front of the bus. That's why dispatch sometimes calls and asks "Where are you?" DUH!! One morning, they asked "Why are you still in the yard?" 90 minutes after I was out on the road in service, 16 miles up the 22 mile route!! Great system, huh?
At least within the five boroughs, the no-cell-phones-while-driving law must have lapsed by now due to the NYPD's aggressive non-enforcement.
Nextel. Done!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Triboro Coach used to have a nice fleet years ago, but my how things went south ! The buses I saw were so bad, they made Green Lines buses look good. I noted to a couple of attendees that Triboro Coach should be changed to Naporano Coach Lines. You know, a rolling junk yard.
Jamaica Bus Lines has a nicely maintained fleet and New York Bus Service in the Bronx is the Waldorf Astoria of the private bus operators.
Bill "Newkirk"
-F.
I depends which RTS's you mean, I you're talking about those 4400's in ENY, or some of the 4600's in FP, or UP's 4700's and 7500's, or Yukon's RTS's, then yes they are some of saddest sights you can possibly witness.
Or "Dilapidated" but, yes, if a bus looks busted it's ghetto, is most likely caused by ghetto people.
BIG AL
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I have the luxury of taking I-395/95 South in the AM and North in the PM which allows me to watch all the bus activity in the HOV lanes going the opposite direction.
I did see a Fairfax Connector bus with a full ad wrap for that same ride at Kings Dominion. Funny seeing a FFX bus with ads at all, let alone full ad wraps.
PRTC's Orion V's are nice. They are true suburban buses with one door, reclining seats and interior luggage racks. I rode 172 the other day from the PRTC transit center to Manassas and back. I've been riding a few here and there to get an idea of our service area. I take the turn by turn notebook, the headway sheets and some other stuff. I haven't been on an MCI yet, though. Probably next week, they'll send me on a DC run to see how those are, do some route timing, things like that.
Now we are finalzing our June service changes and working on the Fall ones as well. The fall is when Saturday service on the OmniLink buses begin.
I was also able to get some neat PRTC stuff like a polo shirt, sweater and baseball cap. Wore the polo shirt for casual day yesterday, but wont wear it every Friday because I was one of the only ones wearing it.
Congrats on the new job Perry
NOTICE: WASH A/C FILTER AND RE-USE. INSTALL BLUE SIDE OUT.
Is this a part of their 5% belt-tightning in each department, I wonder? All I see this doing is causing mildew and mold and such in the system...I hope they thought this out first..
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
While the others may get on our nerves once in a while, they don't come in here with their sole mission in life to whine about some bus operator's mistakes.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
According to your ridiculous poll, Brooklyn67 gets two votes. I don't think soooo!!
Start your own board and apply your own membership rules. In the interim, you have no control who joins- and what they write.
You need to get on Peter Pan's bus and drive away to Loserville.
Have a nice trip-- and make it one way!! LOL
I didn't know I had so much control over you. Now I guess I just have to post every day knowing like a cockroach you're going to come out from darkness. LOL!!
Next question.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I would hate to see what they would do to you in there
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
But Only Once, and One Way.
As for now though...either the N23 via Harbor Rd, N20, the friday/sunday Greyhound from Hempstead, Li to Springfield, Ma, or a Adirondack Trailways run from Kingston to Babylon.
The run along the Expresswat is enjoyable. I'd also like to ride it toward the other end to Queens Village.
WF:Bx6
GH:Bx5,39,55
MCH:M2,M60
MV:All routes if possible
KB:M100,Bx7
100:Any route
MJQ:M6,M21,M27/50
FP:B24,B54
JG:B71
CAS:S40,S42,S48,S51,S54,S62,S78
Da Hui
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
As for routes:
FB- B41, B44, B46, B47, B49
JG- B8, B37, B65, B68, B69
MV- M3, M4, M5, M18, M98
WF- Bx8, Bx11, Bx31, Bx35
B1-#8693-TMC
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I did see 9236 with Ulmer Park stickers, but still with a Monroe College (Kingsbridge Heights) ad.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
Did his e-mail address change or he doesn't update his webpage anymore.
I do have route descriptions,,agenda notes from the NYCT
steve
FDNY
MetroB
steve
MetroB
Two comments:
1. I typed in the address and got nothing.
2. There are Flxibles that operate in Philadelphia - NJ Transit buses from South Jersey.
that's all the ones i know from off the top...
Generally, Greyhound's roll signs are in alphabetical order (from what I've seen) and include just about every city in the uS that they would use as a terminal point.
I think they do have Special
I remember driving an ex-Greynound MC-7 at one of the charter companies I used to work for, and it had about 120 or so readings....when we took the rolls out to replace them with our own, they were quite heavy even though they were the mylar signs!! (The boss kept them...sorry guys. This was 20 or so years ago.)
Chuck Greene
Hmmmm, they may actually use LOCAL for the Long Island runs......
Oh, I was on a hound this summer that had BANGOR. Well, it was a hound with some vermont transit logos.
Chuck Greene
JD
East Newyork
Flatbush
Casey Stengel
Amsterdam
Edgewater
54th old blue one
146th
Colluseum
West Farms
TA
Team transit
Road Control
I'd rather have the patches or the actual depot stickers that go on the buses. A 1" button is pretty small.
JD
Da Hui
Another driver let him know, but I am not sure if he ever realized it!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I don't like your attitude. But do you have pics?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
You already said you didn't get pictures of the bus, so I think he was asking about pictures of the sorority girls. Did they take your camera and break it? ;^)
We were quite amused and were able to get pictures the bus as it entered the line of buses waiting to pick up passengers.
We were quite amused and were able to get pictures the bus as it entered the line of buses waiting to pick up passengers.
Look at this page with the codes for the subway shuttles.
9070 is A to Howard Beach
9040 is 6 to Parkchester
Remember, the keypad on the sign console looks like this:
123
456
789
_0_
Very easy to hit the wrong key and get the wrong sign.
54th Street Depot in China? Gotta provide us with a system.
Da Hui
Da Hui
If you check this site for pictures of the Bus Festivals held in NYC I believe that there are pictures of #621. Too bad they repainted to look like it could've run for QSC (or its predecsessor QT) as opposed to their old brown and yellow livery.
Exterior view
Interior view
Driver's area
This one looks similar to 621's paint scheme, except that 621 has an extra band of red on the bottom.
The "favya" store is now a McDonalds.
As Hart Bus mentions, you mean bus 621, not 627 (the script 1 does look a little like a 7, so it's easy to make that mistake). I saw both 621 and 623 at Triboro yesterday. 621 was under its own power, but I can't say if 623 is still operable (it looked like it might be). I doubt if either of these buses sees any passenger service, other than for special charters. (The MNYBA chartered 621 for a trip a few years back, shortly after it received its current red paint scheme.)
East New York
Manhattanville
146th Street
Command Center and maybe 54th.
What is the road control one for.
David
My understanding has been that CAT's NABI artics are numbered 530-574, and the new Neoplans are 504-509. The other day, I saw a NABI artic on the 204 (Sahara) route, and its fleet number was 575. Anybody know where that came from?
Despite being in Vegas for ten days, I did not see any of the Neoplans. :-(
I wonder where the DASH buses would lay over in that case? For one thing, any bus that just travels through that mall would have better on time performances since they lose a lot of time going through there, especially over the holidays. Not like many people shop there in the first place.
That would be nuts to see that place closed down, but its dying big time over there.
You think that THE BUS was running the mall.
Bus station must move
-----
With Highlight:
It is unclear how many riders pass through the ParkSide transfer station each year because no recent rider survey has been made there, Siebel said.
But the number is sure to be at least in the thousands. One of the routes, the 19 bus, is the biggest in Pinellas County with about a million riders a year, Siebel said. The 19 goes from Tarpon Springs to 54th Avenue S near Eckerd College in St. Petersburg.
Another route, the 52, is in the top five for number of passengers, Siebel said. It runs from Williams Park in St. Petersburg to Park Street in Clearwater.
-----------
And of course if the link dies:
With demolition just weeks away, developers have asked the county bus authority to move its bus transfer station off Pinellas ParkSide mall property for at least several months.
The request, which was a surprise to Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority officials, came as the mall's owners found out they could not reconstruct the mall in stages as originally planned. Instead, the entire mall - except the 16-screen movie complex - will be razed and redeveloped at one time.
"We are going to be closing the entire site down," said John Sabow, director of development for mall owner Boulder Venture South LLC. "We're not going to be able to accommodate the PSTA on site after May 15."
Allowing buses to come onto the property during construction would be dangerous and impossible because of traffic congestion, Sabow said.
The mall eventually will provide a new transfer station for PSTA along 70th Avenue N just west of the movie theaters, he said.
Mike Siebel, PSTA director of planning, said the deadline does not provide much time for officials to act. They plan to talk with mall engineers this week to see if some solution can be worked out.
"This was kind of an unexpected effect of deciding to tear the whole mall down at once," Siebel said.
The best solution for the PSTA and its riders, Siebel said, would be for the mall to build the new transfer station first.
"That way we'd move once and basically be out of their way for the rest of the project," Siebel said.
Another possibility is having the PSTA maintain a stop somewhere on mall property, moving from place to place as it became necessary.
Boulder Venture bought the mall last May from John Hancock Mutual Insurance Co. for about $12-million.
Boulder Venture wants to turn the mall inside out by tearing down the brown monolith that has housed stores since 1974. In its place will be central parking with stores sprinkled around the outside, rather like the rejuvenated Clearwater Mall. The movie theaters will remain where they are.
With its new configuration, the mall also will get a new name. Sabow confirmed Friday that would be the Shoppes at Park Place.
One of the changes will be the bus transfer station, located on the western side of the mall property behind the Home Depot. The bus facility serves double duty as a shopping stop and as a way for folks to transfer from one route to another.
Built about four years ago for about $180,000 provided by both the PSTA and the city of Pinellas Park, it serves six routes.
It is unclear how many riders pass through the ParkSide transfer station each year because no recent rider survey has been made there, Siebel said.
But the number is sure to be at least in the thousands. One of the routes, the 19 bus, is the biggest in Pinellas County with about a million riders a year, Siebel said. The 19 goes from Tarpon Springs to 54th Avenue S near Eckerd College in St. Petersburg.
Another route, the 52, is in the top five for number of passengers, Siebel said. It runs from Williams Park in St. Petersburg to Park Street in Clearwater.
Also important, Siebel said, is the 444, a local route that travels throughout Pinellas Park. It is used by seniors, particularly from places like the Mainlands, to shop and get to local doctors.
The letter to the PSTA is one indication mall renovation may begin a bit earlier than expected. Mall stores had been told they have until June 30 to be out and construction was scheduled to begin immediately after.
But engineer Robert Pierro said in his letter to the PSTA that "we are hoping to start demolition and regrading by May 15, 2004."
Pierro added, "The mall site will be under active construction for several months. I do not have a construction schedule at this time. My best guess is it will be several months before we can construct the new bus transfer facility on 70th Avenue."
But while the PSTA needs to get off the property, ParkSide Cinemas will remain and stay open throughout construction. To accommodate moviegoers, the parking construction will be done in two phases, Sabow said. It will be "tight" and "dusty" for a while, he said.
"It's going to be interesting," Sabow said. "We're determined not to close the theater. . . . I think it would just be horrible if we closed them down. That's not even a consideration."
[Illustration]
Caption: Map locating ParkSide mall redevelopment areas.; Photo: MAP
What that place needs is not a new building but a new owner, General Growth blows!
Landmark is currently getting a new food court that is supposed to open in Fall 2003 (sic). It'd be interesting if they tore down the mall three years from now after spending time on the food court.
WES, you and others may recall what happened with the bus stop at Landmark...because of construction, it was moved from one end of the mall to the other, which didn't slow the buses down much but really threw people off who had to walk the entire length of the mall from, say, Burger King to the bus stop...and in January, the bus stop was relocated to its original location...
now that seems like a normal thing that would happen during construction, but I remind you all that the project that supposedly caused the move has not made any progress since the temporary wall was put up probably a year ago now...General Growth..yeah..growth *rolls eyes*
And Tristan as for that supposid food court, ummm, don't hold your breath, right now there won't be any new stores opening probably for a long while, so my hopes for an Arby's, Popeye's, Boston Market, Mickey Ds and some better food choices will not come.
I am also ticked the mall doesn't give us free Krispie Kreme doughnuts any more. At least we have been getting free bread for the past Saturday and Sunday from some company called Nature's Own. BTW, they will be giving out free loaves again this Saturday.
Da Hui
I wonder how the Hybrids will handle in FP. The B13 is one the most difficult routes in Brooklyn, with the some of the tightest turns you will ever see. Mmm, this just gave me an idea for a new topic....
Incorrect, Orion 7561 still has yet to come.
8909 on the 42 today.
MCH: Not sure, maybe the M1 since it's their longest route.
QV: Q46 and Q43 would be the best two routes.
126St.: M15 already has Artics, so maybe he M31.
ENY: B12 is challenging, B25 and Q56 are decent choices.
FP: B13! One of the most difficult routes in Brooklyn(IMO), if an Orion7 can handle the these turns, there is no doubt it can get all other Brooklyn routes. Try that turn on Forest Av./Gates Av. @_@, that turn can't be done without bringing the bus on the sidewalk.
All other FP routes are cake compared to the B13. The Q58 would be the second best choice though.
BIG AL
B1-#4774-TMC
B64-#9302-NOVABUS
The meeting place was 7th St & Olive St in Downtown LA .... Cleanairbus arrivec on MTA # 5476 ( 2001 NF C40LF ) on Line 20. Chatted and looked at the pics he took throughout today. Carlton loves these CNG Neoplans and the neat retarder sound effects they had to offer...in addition he almost had a heart-attack when MTA # 5086 ( 1999 C40HF ) came by whistling and the neat effects of the '01-'02 NABIs and the CompoBus. So I lead the way to 7th & Broadway where a lot of the bus action takes place at .. especially on sunday. He wanted to see some of the MTA 6700s ... so we went over to the next block .... 7th & Spring and watch a few buses go by ... including MTA # 2116 ( 1988 TMC RTS ) which we litteraly chased after for the pic. We photographed # 5518 on the 40 line. It was funny because the operator was covering his eyes ... even when he was driving through the intersection. Yes we also got staredowns from other operators as we photographed buses for about 20 minutes .. even the one chick in MTA # 6504
A few minutes rolled by and we boarded MTA # 6737 ( 1999 CNG Neoplan ) on Line 28. This trip was very busy for a sunday. We deboarded at Olympic Bl & Vermont Ave. After that ... we caught MTA # 5188 ( 1999 NF C40HF ) on a busy line 204. Lot of people were waiting for Line 754 , which stops running at 800pm. The funny thing they were all waiting ... and as soon as Carlton and I went to board this come ... here comes the rest of the herd of buffalos.
We deboarded at Wilshire-Vermont .... and caught the Red Line to Union Station. After that, I showed him LA Union Station, the Metro Gold Line, Amtrak, and Patsaouras ( Pat-sore-ass ) Plaza & the LACMTA Schedule Rack ... aka the l.a. bus fans planning center.
After that, we caught MTA # 6395 ( 1998 Neoplan ) on the 40 line to 7th & Broadway. We walked to 7th St Metro Ctr. We caught our respected trains. As we were walking towards 7th St Metro Ctr ... we ran into # 6504 AGAIN and the operator gave us one of those staredowns ... hmm ... maybe she liked us.
Its great to see another east coast busfan to invade the west coast. Tomorrow it will be a lil more of MTA .... and also Metrolink, OmniTrans, and Foothill Transit and stuff
And how many buses run on the route during the rush hour?
Thes are some of the longest routes I know.
As for the Bx, I'm not sure, maybe Bx40/Bx42.
S74/84 -- about 17 miles from Tottenville to the Ferry.
S78 -- about 16 miles from Tottenville to the Ferry.
Q44 -- about 14 miles from Jamaica to the Bronx Zoo.
M101 -- about 11 miles from Cooper Square to Fort George.
I'd also include some "best guess" candidates: B6, B15, B44, B46, B82, Bx1, Bx8, Bx41.
B6,B15,B44,M3,M101,Q44,Bx40,S74,S78,S79
Some side choies: B82,Bx42
In minutes or distance?
Minutes-wise, the B82 to Stillwell is also up there.
I haven't beenin NYC in ages....I'm at the other end of the country.
The old full-length M101 did have the longest running time (about 2 hours at some times of day) of any local route, but not the longest end-to-end distance.
JD
Jim D.
Mark
Saw about 12 buses parked on the pier waiting for shipment. These were single door buses, Neoplan AN440s in the DART color schemes. The windows were protected with wooden boards.
Going overseas?
http://www.ridecarta.com/
-F.
Tallahassee has RTS (GM and TMC), Gillig low floors and several fishbowls. This was the first time I saw the fishies in actual service.
You'd be best to talk to the Private Lines themselves. Click here on NYCDOT's page on the Queens' Private Lines.
Just scroll down to see the links to each of the companies.
Normally that would be true, but they are in a "it's not my job" mode these days :-(
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Buses I seen:
8026,8035,8040: ENY
8157,8171,8201,high 8200: FLA
Add 8345 & 8449 to the Flatbush fleet.
I recently saw this bus at the Jamaica Terminal, running on the Q2, and I noticed that it now has traditional flipdot signs. When did this happen?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Because there were some glitches with the orange LED signs.
The front sign started to have problems when I last saw it. One half of it was displaying and the other wasn't.
And I didn't know 522 used to be a CS bus.
I can tell you purely from an observational standpoint, not from a technical standpoint.
Some lines on the front sign were freezing, so the sign would be displaying two messages at once, if you know what I mean. Sometimes, some lines wouldn't be working at all, and only part of the messages would be displayed. Also, the sign seemed to be "slanted". And, like others have said, the rear sign rarely worked at all.
...the Orion 2...
...the Orion 5...
...the Orion 6...
...and the Orion 7.
But what about the Orion 3 and Orion 4? Does anyone know what they look like?
The Orion IV
And the Orion III
[Orion 4]
That looks weird!
Anyways I just found some infomations on the Orion VII Hybrid. Can't believe that they can go 70mph if NYCmta wanted them too..
http://www.electricdrive.org/oldpdfs/Brager.pdf
Okay, the S92 now has a variety of Gilligs on it. For example, during the morning rush hour...I saw Gillig Phantom 40TB102 #9100 (which had a HIG-piericing sound), then later that day I saw Gillig Phantom 30TB102 #9701 (that bus was transferred over to the Southampton Depot) and then Gillig Phantom 35TB102 #9605 in the evening. So, the varieties are big on Suffolk Transit routes. By the way, it looks official..the 10A will now have the Flxible Metro-D 30102 #9332 on it. That's all for now.
Ray
"The EASTERN Suffolk Man"
Thanks.
David
But 181st Street (formally the "Washington Bridge") is nowhere near Lower Manhattan (particularly City Hall and Police Plaza).
BTW, the BM1, QM11, etc. use CNG buses, and they're allowed to run past City Hall. That's because NYCDOT's buses were actually exempted from the Lower Manhattan CNG-ban so DOT wouldn't have to buy new express buses!
Formally? It still is the Washington Bridge.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
"Formally," not "formerly."
Peace,
ANDEE
Well, I'm not surprised by that outcome :-P. Since the express buses are 4-6 years old, they didn't want to buy them "so soon".
This means NO CNG vehicles are allowed on the following routes, even if a route assigned to a CNG depot has them:
B51
B39
M35/M60
Q32
Q44
All express bus routes, except for X25, X90 (because these operate within Manhattan.
CNG buses, by law are not allowed in any tunnels either. This is obvious.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Incorrect, the B51 used CNG Buses including New Flyers before 9/11/01 when NYPD banned CNG buses over the Manhattan Bridge and since JG is 100% CNG, it needed to be moved to East New York, no perhaps in the future, the 51 may come back to JG.
Acela
It doesn't tell me that I just figured out HARTline is got 14 new gilligs this year, 3 electric/hybrids this fall, one more trolley, and will only have 8 flx's left by summer. That's from being bored and looking at a 198 page pdf file.
But looking down the page:
"APTA's Transit Vehicle Database CD-ROM contains detailed information on about 250 U.S. transit fleets, as well as procurements in the next 5 years. Included are year built, manufacturer, vehicle type, size, cost, accessibility, fuel type, number of vehicles, and other information."
So I guess the CD is better.
F1332 on the 291 line
Interior pic of F1334 on Line 486
Is it one of those agencies that can't get any interior ads sold? And is that rear door a push strip, or just operator opened only?
Can't think of any more annoying questions.
the rear door is operator controlled and the interlock release sounded wonderful :-D
well ...
heres a picture of Metro 7417 in fresh paint on Line 316 limited. 7417 is a 2001 NABI 40LFW
Metro 7987 ( 2003 NABI 40CLFW-CompoBus ) on Line 111 departing LAX Airport Bus Ctr
heres a picture of Metro 7417 in fresh paint on Line 316 limited. 7417 is a 2001 NABI 40LFW
another pic of that NABI 40ft CompoBus
I'm not sure Metro bus has an express paint scheme. When I was in L.A. about a month back, I saw some of the buses in the new Metro Local paint scheme running on freeway routes. Of course, given the traffic on most L.A. freeways, it is probably appropriate to call any bus thereon a local!
Y'all know I posted a shorter 31 foot verison in an earlier thread.
enjoy!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
April 4, 2004
Mayor Michael Bloomberg's proposal that the MTA absorb private bus fleets could result in costs far exceeding the $150 million the city now pays annually in subsidies to the seven lines, according to documents and interviews.
Taking over the lines - a total of 1,100 buses that serve 418,000 riders, mostly in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens - probably would require replacing dozens of aging buses, acquiring new depots and maintenance garages, and assuming control of pensions for hundreds of present and former employees, transit and bus company officials say privately.
"There are any number of issues," Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesman Tom Kelly said.
Those costs, as well as figuring out how to transfer employees from private companies to the MTA, a public authority, have delayed the takeover, according to people involved in the transfer. Bloomberg has sought for two years to transfer the lines, in large part to jettison the millions in subsidies from the city's strained budget.
The MTA maintains that it is only willing to take over the lines at no additional expense.
Costs unclear
The exact cost of the transfer could not be determined, and the only estimate the administration has offered publicly spans a huge range.
Susan Kupferman, director of the city's Office of Operations and Bloomberg's representative in negotiations, estimated in sworn testimony before a state Assembly committee in May that the transfer would cost between $10 million and $500 million.
At that time, she testified that the city could zero in on a more specific estimate by June of last year. A Bloomberg spokesman recently declined to release any updated figures, saying they were not final.
"We are negotiating this agreement with the MTA, not through the press," Jordan Barowitz said Friday.
Kupferman declined to comment last week. In May, she told the Assembly committee: "I would think that there is a significant capital cost that would be associated with bringing the fleet [of 1,100 buses] immediately up to the standards of the New York City Transit Authority."
Since then, the city has released $160 million in federal money to buy 450 new MTA buses for use after the takeover.
But MTA officials are skeptical those buses and the 650 older private buses would be enough to meet MTA standards, according to one NYC Transit official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. NYC Transit uses only more modern buses, fit to their own specifications.
"Probably the best maintained of the [remaining] buses are 20 years old," the official said.
If none of the new or older buses could be used, the MTA probably would need to acquire 650 buses, each of which costs about $350,000. That would total $227 million.
Nowhere to put them
Then there are the depots needed to house them. Although the city owns two bus depots that the private lines use, officials and private bus executives believe the MTA would need more to house maintenance shops and hundreds of vehicles.
Private bus companies say they will not lease or sell their depots to the MTA or the city.
NYC Transit drivers often are forced to park overnight on the street due to a lack of space, and it would be difficult for current maintenance facilities to absorb more buses.
"Eleven hundred buses is a quarter of our fleet," the official said.
Officials have indicated that they could merge routes to make service more efficient. Such a move, however, is sure to infuriate riders and their elected officials. The Bloomberg administration has asserted that service after the transfer would improve.
Last are the pension issues. Jerome Cooper, chairman of Jamaica Buses and chairman of a group of four lines, has estimated the pensions of the unionized employees at the companies total about $300 million.
Stanley Aronowitz, a unionized labor expert with City University of New York, said whoever takes over the companies would be on the hook for paying pensions, even when revenue flattens out.
"I'm sure that that's what they're worried about - that they're going to assume a tremendous burden," Aronowitz said.
Bloomberg in November identified the pension costs as one possible stumbling block to a deal.
"The state, the city, the private bus companies, the MTA, nobody has the money to do it," Bloomberg said when he signed legislation to extend by six months the companies' franchise agreements. "So we've got to find a way to do it. It's just one of those things that just takes time."
here's an example
You see,,,
And they say a pic is worth a thousand words(or irrlevant observations).
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Full Service tends to cost more then self service for some strange reason. I agree that gas prices have been on a roller coaster since 9/11 and I think it may start to get a bit more worse in NY State since they ban a type of chemincal in gas that was in cheaper gasoline and now have to settle buying gasoline that costs more.
Is it safe to say that we may have a repeat of what happin in the 70's again?
FWIW, we have two types: A.P. Smiths (in the 9370 photo) and Dressers, as seen behind 3503
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
MetroB
On occasion, in the PM rush hour, the PABT gets so backed up inside, that it is closed temporarily to entering buses. In such case, buses with passengers (and without) coming out of the Lincoln Tunnel from NJ have to turn right towards lower Manhattan, after which they then make two more right turns so they are headed north on 10th Avenue. With all the traffic along 10th Avenue, by time they get back up to the PABT, the ramps for entering buses are usually reopened.
And will this affect service or anything on the Q20?
Why? Does the current ATU contract specifically prohibit artics? Did it have to be modified to allow the MCI's?
Congrats. You're my home depot. Work hard at whatever the hell you're doing, 'kay? ;-)
Why doesn't brooklyn have these buses already? The B41/46/49 have sky high ridership
Because the Department of Buses hasn't yet assigned any to Brooklyn.
David
BIG AL
David
BIG AL
With only one or two exceptions, Q44 and Q20A/B trips are not blocked together. A bus that starts on the Q44 stays on the Q44 all day, and a bus that starts on the Q20A/B stays on the Q20A/B (and thus in Queens) all day. That way, if the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge gets totally screwy, the locals are still there to offer a crowded-but-regular headway along Main Street.
For sample
Run 1 start Q44 & stay all day
Run 2 start Q20A/B & in the afternoon run on Q44
Run 3 start Q44 & in the afternoon run on Q20A or B
The Winter 2004 pick has a combined "Q4420" with 97 runs plus a few pieces scattered among the Miscellaneous runs. However, Queens Road Control has requested that the Q4420 pieces be removed from the Miscellaneous so that the other routes involved in those runs won't be subject to the vagaries of Main Street and the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge. So, for the Spring 2004 pick, the Q4420 will have 100 runs with no Miscellaneous pieces.
[...also some Q20A/B & Q44 runs start all day. There are two relief point one on Main St next to Citibank heading to Bronx & other Roosevelt Av near McDonald & #7 Train Station Dropoff only. Forget Artics on Q20A/B & $$ line.
For sample
Run 1 start Q44 & stay all day
Run 2 start Q20A/B & in the afternoon run on Q44
Run 3 start Q44 & in the afternoon run on Q20A or B]
Actually, runs 1 through 4 are the "hawks" (a poor word to use, since hawks are not nocturnal birds), so they all start on the Q44. The second piece of each run can be Q44 or Q20A/B.
Note that my previous post referred to the bus itself, not the run operating it. A bus on the Q4420 will pull out to one branch (Q44 or Q20A/B) and stay on that branch all day. A run can stay on one branch or the other all day, or can have the first half on one branch and the second half on the other (depending on how all the work falls into place).
Ray
I think its based on ridership.
On Weekends when its just the Q20A/Q44,1st half could be Q20A,2nd half Q44,vice versa or all 20A or all 44.So basically what it comes down to is that runs that have both Q20 and 44,drivers will take out artics if they make it to CS as well as drivers who have the 44 all day long.If a driver has just the Q20 all day long,driver could be given a O5.
Da Hui
The manhattan bound Bx17 will run the same route
except from E132 St and Walnut Av. The bus will turn up
Walnut or Locust then on to E 138 St the, on to Manhattan using the Bx33 route.
The Bronx bound Bx 17 will run from Manhattan on the Bx33 same exact route but at E 134 St and Walnut it will turn and run to Fordham Plaza
from the route the Bx 17 runs now.
So what do you think?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Incorrect, that is in fact 8444, I have confirmed this with Flatbush Depot myself, and certain destination signs on the 8000s DO NOT come out bold, Also since when has 4444 had a destination lowered on the side?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
B46#4444LTD
Sadly, NYCT does not see it this way. In many cases, they will try to get anything on the Bus Operator and make it look like it was HIS fault for causing the muil-vehicle accident. Anything to terminate the B/O just to make them look good. I had one conversation with a B/O in the Bronx some time ago, and he told me a kid darted in front of a moving bus and was struck (not sure if he was injured or killed). Guess what happened to the B/O? He was terminated after the accident.
Anything outside of divine intervention could NOT prevent that kind of accident. The bus involved was nothing more than an innocent victim.
[Anything to terminate the B/O just to make them look good.]
They just don't want to admit that their buses can be victimized like other vehicles. I bet you that if a small airplane making an emergency landing attempt on the Gowanus Expressway and lands on a bus, causing an accident, the B/O would STILL be at fault, despite the fact that the B/O had ZERO control over the accident.
[I had one conversation with a B/O in the Bronx some time ago, and he told me a kid darted in front of a moving bus and was struck (not sure if he was injured or killed). Guess what happened to the B/O? He was terminated after the accident.]
The B/O should sue the kid's parents. Even if the bus was moving at 15 MPH, it wouldn't come to a full stop if the kid jumped out 40 feet in front of the bus
The artics can stop on a dime, thanks to the retarder
How does placing the blame appropriately on a third party make NYCT look bad?
Acela
Is there some sort of advantage to this, because the same amount of light is being distributed in the bus, correct?
My comparasion/reasoning is from proper bathroom design(yes bathroom design!). What you're supposed to have around a vanity mirror is lights on both sides(left and right) of the mirror. Not top down. Top down makes you ugly and you dont' get a good detail of the uglyness either.
So that's my theory. Unless they jsut want to be different.
I notice that old New Flyers, Phantoms, Flxibles I've been on recently have the top/middle config. And the gillig Advantages have the bottom/sides config. Old Neoplans had the top ones too right? I can't rmemeber what NABI does.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Proofreader anyone for hire?
DUH!
Thank You
Chuck Greene
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
If you play your cards right, you may get to see one of the new Champion cutaways at Morrell Park loop on the 304.
Now if the 66 remains trackless, why would the 59 and 75 be diesels (after, all come from Frankford Depot, correct?).
You realize, I hope, that Philadelphia has the oldest trolley coach system continuously in operation in North America, dating back to 1923. However, the original two lines, Oregon Ave. and Ridge Ave. (today's bus route #61) have been diesel for a long time.
Chuck Greene
If this is the answer to how far backwards SEPTA is going, I don't like it one bit. Anyone else hear this??
I think the original poster of that message was confused or didn't see the whole process. It's entirely possible that the person removing wire was doing so to replace it later with a new later. SEPTA would have a very hard time talking itself out of bringing back the ETBs at this, the city is hounding them over their lack of use of the 59 and 66 wires, the clean air council is hounding them over a memo where they claim the DE40LF hybrids are replacements for the ETBs. Also people along the routes are apparantly starting to get angry with SEPTA, not neccesarily over the dieselification of their routes, although some have filed noise complaints, but rather over the fact that non-ADA compatible Neoplans often substituted for their semi-ADA compatible AMGs (only some had W/C Lifts, yet none of the lines were ever called W/C routes).
To reitterate, I'm fairly certain that the ETB system is coming back. Also, SEPTA would never go CNG, they retrofitted Germantown depot for it, and hated every minute of it, so fortunately we don't currently have to worry about SEPTA being so stupid as to jump on the CNG bandwagon. If they were going to do anything, it'd be to buy some 60 or so DE40LF hybrids, apparantly the operators and maitenance people like them, and they're actually saving SEPTA money when it comes to fuel costs. However, CNG or Hybrid, if SEPTA tried to swap out the ETBs for either they'd be in a world of hurt from whatever the Clean Air Council could do to them (sue?).
I was thinking about this, and wondered, does Philly charge Septa for usage?
Or is SEPTA technically getting free fuel/power on these routes?
if there was a charge/billing dispute, I could see SEPTA holding out.
I can understand other agencies. I read about making a downtown loop use CNG buses, or busy routes getting electric-hybred, and that's fine, because they dont' have the infrastructure and they're too cheap to build it.
SEPTA has the infrastructure some other cities would love to be dealt with today to build upon. What do they do?
CNG buses. CNG!! Natural gas! Come on. Up north yet! Good old natural gas which gets more expensive every single year!
As I anticipate 3 hybrid electric buses coming to town, I think about how much they would've have loved to have wires in place instaed.
SEPTA with CNGs? HA! That's way too expensive, especially since they are complaining about expensive diesel. Besides, with their HEVs, why would they go to CNG?
FIRST of all, I've noticed that SEPTA has mostly Neos on anything that wonce used wires. 23, 56, 66, 59, 75, 79... Neoplan city. 29, I don't ride, and 15 is the only one I've ever seen with a mix... usually, it's a NABI that slides in.
Well, we all know the 15's going back to trolley ops THIS very year... SUPPOSEDLY, it's somewhere in SEPTA's plans to restore ONE of their remaining bustituted trolley lines... The 56 has been having problems lately with loose concrete on the ROW getting sent flying across Erie Avenune by speedy drivers on the tracks that actually don't belong there. The concrete coming away is wehre the rails are set. IIR^, they removed most evidence of the 6 and 53 as trolleys failry quickly. The way SEPTA is doing things with their bus orders as it stands, they go for wider buses to have two seats facing forward per row to each side. When they retire the Neos, rumor has it (I've heard confirmations from some, but debunking from others, both working for the company) that the company plans to revitalize the rails and restore the 23 to trolley service... not so sure on the 56, but it seems more likely they'd fx that as well.
Now to the ETBs... the 29 and 79 are most likely finished. The removal of ETBs on the 29 is mostly due to housing development construction that requires detouring. However, in the same move, they extended it to Pier 70. It's been floated to extend the wires there (and to Franklin Mills Mall for the 66), but nothing so far seems to be coming from it. The 79, who knows? SEPTA hasn't extended it anywhere, the buses run the TB route... so it's likely they'd bring them back there.
However, that bit about Frankford... Bullsh*t. When FTC was finished, the wires were NOT EVEN THERE. Recently, I've seen the wires coming back up. SEPTA is constructing new berths to be used by Routes 26, 73, and 84 (26 because of the routing via Bridge and Torresdale weekdays). When THAT is done, guess what? The Bridge Street terminal building's construction will have been completed, and the 66 will have a loading stand in the area... the wires there will likely remain in their old place, allowing the 66 to keep its old loading spot. But mark my words, Frankford District WILL be utilizing ETBs on their routes. I see no reason they'd ignore the 75; the 59 and 66 all share Frankford... If SEPTA wanted to permanently bustitute the 75, the wires would be down right now.
And on a slightly unrelated note, the main reason, I believe, that no trolleys have made a more recent appearance on the 23 and 56 is that there isn't a depot nearby to accomodate them. Allegheny is all artics, Luzerne's been closed and bought (by who, I don't know), and Germantown's out of service as an active depot for the fixed routes. Midvale would need to exapnd quite a bit to handle the cars needed on the 23 and 56, especially with the 23's frequency.
Actually, my point about the order (for the 23 - that's the bustituted line i know the best that runs down narrow streets) is that there is going to be no space in case the order is delayed (remember the 5400 order that came years late?).
If SEPTA really wanted to save money, they would've started by getting more heavy duty 30ft buses instead of spec'ing cutaways for transit service - they are only going to last 5 years anyway.
About the wires...I have seen them put up and I did see a Neo on the 66. I did see an AMG at Frankford (my god, it looks so outdated), and I asked the info guy at frankford if he knew when they were coming back - he said no time soon, though.
[
However, I did read in some budget report (accessible at www.septa.org) that there was funding for new trolley coaches for 2005-2006 fiscal years, and we already recieved funding for them some time ago.
The TT system isn't going, and the fact that SEPTA would go for CNGs is laughable - that's an old technology, and with hybrids that actually SAVE money, why go for anything else that's so costly?
I'm guessing that maybe the 79 and 29 may eventually use hybrids, because I don't think Southern is thrilled with the older special units (look at what they did to 3414). However, I'm sure Frankford would bring them back.
Southern isn't too thrilled with being Southern... About the only damn thing they manage to not have problems with is the 17.
5: Half Frankford
23: Half Midvale
47: Half Midvale
57: Half Midvale
108: Half Victory, and crossing CTD and STD management makes for an impossible to monitor route.
They just got the G recently (Callowhill dropped its half of the G and 64 to make room for the 10 and 15 trolley routes), and... well, Callowhill was more reliable.
I could actually run off a list of EVERY CTD route, and give you which district should actually have it... and Southern doesn't need some of what Southern has. I'll post it if you want.
C, G, 2, 5, 7, 12, 17, 23, 29, 37, 47/47m, 57, 64, 68, 79, 108, and the Broad Street Owl.
18 routes.
G and 64 WERE half Callowhill, and the C, 23, 47 and 57 are half Midvale. The 5 is half Frankford; the depots split this route when the 5 terminated at 2nd & Oregon. Currently, it turns back at Front & Market - Southern needs no part of it. 2 may be half Midvale, and the 7 should be as well, or half Allegheny (at one point, an operator friend of mine changed from 65 to Route 61; he worked from Allegheny, and this was back when Luzerne was still active... before the Neo artics, Allegheny had RTS II's on the property). 47m isn't split. The 12 is hard to figure... it could esily be split with Callowhill (the now dead Route 63, which didn't actually cross the Schyulkill River into Southwest Philadelphia was also split with Callowhill, but the 12, which does cross, is not)
The G should have retained the split; it operates right past Callowhill Depot. The 64 as well, since its extension to Parkside Loop puts it further into Callowhill's territory. Route 108 is shared with Victory in the Suburban Transit Division. Southern also had half of Route 50 and all of Route 90. Currently, the transfers still include the 90. The Broad Street Owl is shared with Midvale.
Frontier: 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 118, 124/125, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 201, 204, 206, 304.
Victory: 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117/119, 118, 120, 122, 123, 314.
Southern: C, G, 2, 5, 7, 12, 17, 23, 29, 37, 47/47m, 57, 64, 68, 71, 79, 108, Broad Street Owl.
Callowhill: G, 15, 21, 30, 31, 38, 40, 42, 43, 44, 46, 52, 64, 65, 121, Market-Frankford Owl.
Allegheny: 6, 9, 27, 33, 48, 60, 65.
Midvale: C, H/XH, L, 2, 18, 22, 23, 26, 32, 35, 39, 47, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 61, 77, 80, 89, Broad Street Owl.
Frankford: J, K, R, 1, 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, 59, 66, 75, 88, 89, Market-Frankford Owl.
Comly: R (assumedly, it's at the END of the route list; other transfers show letter routes before numbers, but Owl lines after number... R is under MFO), 1, 14, 19, 20, 24, 28, 58, 67, 70, 73, 84, 88, Market-Frankford Owl.
Elmwood: 10, 11, 13, 34, 36.
The 204 is a contract line [Krapf's].
Frontier should drop the Bucks County routes and give them to a closer depot...that's a lot of money with EZPass.
118 was extended... sometime in the mid 1990's, probably around the time they started Sunday service on the 110, or just after they started the 117/119 split. Before that, it terminated in Newtown Square, where short-turn 104 trips go back.
C: Southern/Midvale
G: Southern (/Callowhill)
H: Midvale
XH: midvale
J: Frankford
K: Frankford (/Midvale)
L: Midvale
R: Frankford (/Midvale), Allegheny, Comly?
1: Frankford/Comly (Comly/Midvale or Frankford/Callowhill)
2: Southern/Midvale
3: Frankford
5: Frankford/Southern (as if Southern needs their hands on it anymore)
6: Allegheny (It's all artics, so understood... Midvale handles Artics that Allegeheny can't hold)
7: Southern (/Allegheny or /Midvale)
8: Frankford
9: Allegheny
10: Elmwood/Callowhill, will lose Elmwood when the 15 returns to trolley ops.
11: Elmwood
12: Southern (/Callowhill)
13: Elmwood (Darby Terminal service is pull in/out from here)
14: Comly
15: Callowhill
17: Southern
18: Midvale/Frankford
19: Frankford/Comly
20: Comly
21: Callowhill
22: Midvale
23: Southern/Midvale
24: Comly
25: Frankford (/Southern)
26: Midvale/Frankford
27: Allegheny
28: Comly (/Midvale)
29: Southern
30: Callowhill
31: Callowhill
32: Midvale
33: Allegheny
34: Elmwood
35: Midvale
36: Elmwood
37: Southern (/Elmwood, if they ever decided to do buses as well)
38: Callowhill
39: Midvale
40: Callowhill
42: Callowhill
43: Callowhill (/Frankford or /Midvale, since the opening of the route to Port Richmond Village)
44: Callowhill
46: Callowhill
47: Midvale/Southern
47m: Southern
48: Allegheny
52: Callowhill
53: Midvale
54: Allegheny/Midvale Frankford
55: Midvale (/Frontier)
56: Midvale (/Comly)
57: Southern/Midvale
58: Comly
59: Frankford
60: Allegheny
61: Midvale
64: Southern/Callowhill
65: Callowhill/Allegheny
66: Frankford
67: Comly
68: Southern
70: Comly (/Midvale)
73: Comly (/Frankford)
75: Frankford
76: Callowhill
77: Midvale
79: Southern
80: Midvale
84: Comly
88: Frankford/Comly
89: Frankford/Midvale
108: Victory/Southern
121: Callowhill
Market-Frankford Owl: Callowhill/Frankford/Comly
Broad Street Owl: Southern/Midvale
I also recall Luzerne dumping off their half of the 65 (they owned the Broad & Erie trips), and I actually own a Route X schedule.
26, I'd have figured eventually, especially since Midvale has it now... but the K and the 8?
Oh... talk is floating about yanking the artics off the 18, and sending it back to Frankford... in a pig's eye! That thing is more crowded than the BSL sometimes. 18 needs to be in Allegheny and Midvale. Frankford needs to give half of the 25 to Southern, and half of the R to Midvale, and maybe send its half of the 1 along with it... and split the K with Midvale... take full control of the 73 and get their half of the 5 back, so Southern can get their hands off it!
Wait... didn't Germantown have the 23?
Now, on #5752 and #5755, I noticed that while those inside headlamps were on, the small rectangular orange little lights around the frontal sign (minilamps?) were NOT on. NOTE: The outside headlamps were not on.
So, my theory is this: If the outside headlamps are not on, these so-called "minilamps" do not go on.
Is this the case? TIA for your explanations.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Mayaguez-Mayaguez Airport-Rincon-Aguadilla-Aguadilla Airport-Arecibo-Rio Piedras-Luis Munoz Marin Int'l Airport(San Juan). First bus out of Mayaguez on both days would be 8:00AM, last bus out of San Juan both days would be 6 or 6:30PM. The travel time is about 2.5 hrs total, so I figure about 2 runs in each direction per day.
My question is...would it be worth it for me to buy a Scenicruiser(one that is in working condition), fix it up, and run it?
Also, any other suggestions are accepted(including to check into a mental hospital ASAP)
Now I wonder if SEPTA will continue using the black bellows or return to the grey ones.
What do you think about the BLACK bellows?
Daryl J
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
6, 9, 18, 22, 27, 33, 48, 54, 55, 60, 65
The 18, 22, 54, and 55 will also use 40 ft buses from Midvale (for the 65, 40-ft buses from Callowhill).
You'd have a better shot of seeing an artic at Olney Terminal (definately on the 6, probably on the 18, 22, and 55) than at Bridge-Pratt.
seeing an artic in Frankford would be a miracle.
Now that the El project if finished, no more Artics at Frankford.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
wow, black? I've never heard of such a thing...even the WMATA Neos don't have black bellows.
That sounds hot, though. Maybe I'll start liking these big neos a little more...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Sounds like Sandra Bullock driving a GMC New Look bus, and keeping it above 50 MPH. That's SPEED (1994) for ya!
Behold, the power of "If"
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
"The Gauntlet" (1976), Clint Eastwood and Sandra Locke hitting inside a bus with 10,000 bullets flying at the bus.
Just two films off the top of my head.
Shoulders was the man...
trivia from The Big Bus: The on board piano player was Murphy Dunne who later appeared as the piano player in the original Blues Brothers movie. When the nuclear engine blew on the Big Bus, Dunne was the only crewmember instantly into his radiation suit and was still playing the piano.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
The following website has quite a listing of buses in movies. Steve is always looking for more to update his listings.
http://www.busstation.net/screen/screen.htm
"8 Mile" has some bus scenes and rides(including werido staring at you!)
"Training Day" Buses going by on Crenshaw in LA, one scene riding the grafitti filled filthed up bus towards the end. Also lots of freeway, and LRT shots. Tastefully included and to convey that urban sense in the movie(after all mass transit is urban isn't it? No matter how much people in some cities refuse to accept this).
The Laughing Policeman, 1972, set in San Francisco, with many shots of Muni Macks.
The Clock, 1944, with excellent shots of Fifth Avenue Coach double deckers.
Gentleman's Agreement, 1947, opening scenes show Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transit buses (single and double deckers) at 5th Ave. and 59th St.
"No Way to Treat A Lady" with George Segal and Lee Remick
"Bye Bye Braveman" also with George Segal
"You're A Big Boy Now", to name four films
I made many different uSA subways systems that were exactly to prototype...NYCTA, Boston, SEPTA, WMATA, PATH, LACMTA, San Diego Trolley, Berlin U-Bahn and a lot of others.
I gave up on BAHN, it got kinda boring after doing so many layouts...plus got real turned off after I sent registration $$$ to the author and a few months later, started getting some nastygrams about "ripping him off" by NOT registering. I save the moneygram receipt and sent a scan of it to no avail.
I dont think all of them are that great but with Bahn I did my best
Please tell me
Da Hui
I wonder what were the reasons.
The test was only about a year back, and occurred after the current order for high-floor artics was placed. As New Flyer will probably not manufacture high-floor artics after the current NYCT order is filled, it is possible NYCT could order New Flyer low floor artics sometime in the future, if it decides it wants more artics. On the other hand, some manufactureres, such as Neoplan, continue to make high floor artics.
I also noticed that the paint livery on the bus was different.
It was blue with two stripes of red - one on top and one on the bottom.
I wonder if that is a sign of things to come. I always did wonder if the NYC Bus livery would change eventually. Unless it's a NYC look - the busses look like the NYPD cars. :-)
B1-#4458-TMC
B1-#4497-TMC with soft seats.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Da Hui
If I missed anything please correct me.
thanks,
acela
In the TA Brooklyn Division and 126th Street Depot if you pick a run that has weekdays off then you have to pick a Saturday run and a Sunday run on the same line in the same work period. They are 3 work periods hawks(all night) AM runs that clear before 8:59PM and PM runs that clear after 9:00PM.
An example i pick a run that starts at 12:30PM and clears at 8:45PM weekdays with Thursday and Friday off. On Saturdays i pick a run on the same line that reports at 9:00AM and clears at 5:00PM and on Sunday that reports at 12:15PM and clears at 8:15PM. The next pick i can pick the same weekday and Sunday run but have to pick a different Saturday run because someone picked that Saturday run ahead of me. You can pick any run on the line provided that it's not a work run and its still an AM run.
If you pick a work run then you work the runs assigned to that work run and you can be assigned to a different line on any day.
I do not know how the TA Queens and Staten Island Divisions work.
In the OA(MABSTOA) you pick a run and everything is linked together. so if i have run 10 on weekdays i still work run 10 on Saturdays but it is not the same weekday schedule. The same is true on Sundays.
I hope that this clears it up for you
Thank You
That's only on the "TA" side. The "OA" contract doesn't categorize runs by time of day.
One picked run includes two days off, weekday work, and if anything other than S/S RDO's, those runs to be worked on Sa or Su.
BIG AL
A 102DL3 representing The Bus? Please. Also, the extra "S" on the ruler means that they're extra special:-)
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
....of BUS PICTURES!!! :)
-F.
Of course Dan Quayle wouldn't know what a bus is or what one looks like. Same thing goes for the management at Bmore MTA and THE BUS.
Yea, that MCI on anything with THE BUS's name on it is like any clean shiny 10 year old bus associated with Balt-MTA nowadays.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Press the button on the back of the light if you are a passenger (or driver) of The Bus, and the blinking light will signal for help, saving you from peril.
(AAA battery included for size comparison)
-F.
-F.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
BIG AL
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Funny thing is, one day I was walking down the street on one of my layovers, and an RTS went by -- the branches of a tree scraped the roof of the bus, and one of the lamp covers flew off and hit me!!! I brought it back into the shop and told them what bus it came from...they got a good laugh out of it, saying "Let's see if anyone even writes it up!"
Celebrating 6 years on the net (yes, with a few quirks here and there).
To Celebrate we are opening a brand new page called, APPETIZERS. The page is designed for the small properties all over the US and Canada or for properties we do not have a lot of pictures for.
Click Here
We pray for 6 more!!!!! Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Webmaster
www.transitalk.info
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
David
Man....no wonder our CDTA is so obsessed with roll signs.
HEY! CDTA has some of those nifty NovaBus LFS's!!
Most of us on the trip will be within the 15-25 age range.
If you wish more info, you can contact me via aim at R682770
Mark
M7 # 6368
WTF, hell no. Wow, guess the CNG is more powerful
Allen Dicion
Toronto, Canada
www.transithub.net
Bx31 #7664
3893, 4165, 4799, 8072, 8179, 8202, 8204, 8228, 8267, 8277, 8278, 7535, 7537, 7543, 7544, 7545, 7551, 7554, 7559 and 7039.
As you can see, ex-GH 3474 is not on the list, as was recently reported. I understand that Reman #7545 is a favorite among a few busfans. Well, at least it will still be around in some capacity (hopefully not at TCC or GBL, though).
Mark
Ray
RESPECT THE BUS OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
Da Hui
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Once in Manhattan(about 20 mins later after I got on), Drop a person off at the 1st stop(34 St and 2 Ave), Anouther person got off at 28 St and 2 Ave. It was me and 3 others left by time 603 got to 23 and Park. 2 People got off at 23 and Park and I just sat there waiting for my stop to come up(Madison and 34) and this is where things shook up. She said to me and I heard her(I was sitting on the drivers side and 1 row infront of the seat by the small square window) and she said that this is the last stop and I told her that I was going to Madison and 34 and she told me only in the mornings the QM21 go's up Madison and I told her that I had other drivers let me off at Madison and 34(Something like that) and she also said that to not get nasty with her and I just said(I figure out a way to get to 34 St then). So I got off and she turned onto Madison and I took the R Train 2 stops to 34 St and got a subway map and it had JBL's phone number on it. So when I got outside, I got on the phone and called JBL up and the guy I spoke to at JBL where pretty helpful. The Inbound QM21's in the PM follows the same exact routeing as the Inbound QM21's in the AM. The guy asked me and I told him and he understood and he told me that he would have a talk with her when she get's back into the garage that she have to serve Madison Ave in the PM as well(I guessing I was talking to the dispatcher and I know he was not happy about it).
QM21's Inbound PM ridership is a bit light but almost everybody would get off at 34 St/2Ave,28 St/2 Ave, and 23 St/Park Ave. But that does not mean that they end there. If there's a person that needs to get off at a QM21 bus stop along Madison Ave or 57 St, they have to take the person to the stop they wanted. I hope when I get that lady again, I hope she would let me off at Madison Ave or else she would get into trouble.
This driver I talking about is a Black lady who look like in her Late 50's Early 60's and acts verry nicely with black hair. I did tell the guy that I was talking with at JBL that she was driving 603.
Regards,
Kevin
Another (and probably among my favorite) is bus-shaped lapel pins and tie clips. Usually made of solid brass with enameled details, you wouldn't expect to see them on a lawyer or doctor, but at the same rate, I appreciate them for what they are. I proudly wear my Flxible Metro-shaped pin on the collar of my leather jacket every day as if it were a badge of honor. :)
-Fred
-F.
Keychain Penlights
TIM promotional token (Not available to Public (Only 50 were minted), I Have 1 but will not give it up)
Pencils
Pens
Free TIM Local Ticket (Were Place on doorhangers 8 times a month to Tempe Residents In November - January 1998-1999 then 2 tickets during try transit week thru 2001)
But I have a rainforest amount of bus schedules and brochures/newsletters at least.
MetroB
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Orions V -- lightbulbs
Newflyers-- L.E.D's
Orion VII-- L.E.D's
BIG AL
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Question; What would the area now called "New York City" be like if the consolidation of 1898 had never taken place- no Brooklyn, Queens (With or without today's Nassau), Staten Island or today's Bronx? This would mean today we have 5 cities today.
Do you think subways would still connect the separate "boroughs" like PATH, PATCO or other such "subway" lines. Would the BRT ever touch Park Row in Manhattan or end at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge? Would the LIRR serve Manhattan as well or just Brooklyn,Queens, etc. (As we know, Long Island DOES include Brooklyn and Queens since they share the same island at Nassau and Suffolk counties today.). What about the IRT, and would this have an influence on the IND's mission to replace the competing els?
Would the Pennsylvania Railroad have served Brooklyn as well since they owned the LIRR ? How would the Pennsylvania Railroad have reached Brooklyn?
You ideas are welcome. Thank you!
Maybe the subway system would have been built differently. It would be more railroad than subway. Maybe Metro North and LIRR would have interconnected and connected the 5 borough area together. The IRT would have concentrated in Manhattan and the Bronx. BRT would have been mostly in Brooklyn. Staten Island would have connected with the railroads in New Jersey.
The Pennsylvania Railroad bought the LIRR to built a tunnel into Manhattan and to use the Sunnyside Yard to turn their trains. I doubt if service would have continued into Brooklyn or Long Island. Maybe in cooperation with the New Haven, freight service might have been expanded in the 5 county area.
It's interesting to think what Robert Moses would have done. Maybe he would have still built his roads and maybe at a later date there might have been another move for consolidation.
I like Flxibles, The RTS, and The Orion I and V.
... And I love Neoplans!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Chuck Greene
BTW Greetings!!
I also love Neoplans, Flxibles, and the Orion V.
You can have the RTS and Orion 1
I like everything you like, except the RTS.
Wow, there I am, rambling. The buses you mentioned are my favorite buses...well, except the RTS... I grew up with Orion Is, and love them (I'd like to buy one if I could ever get enough money) and the Vs are pretty cool too. I love a good Flxible ride...well, not a Metro D, but MEtro Bs and E's are fun.
Anyway, welcome to Bustalk.
Some of the Philly busfans know me as "neoei3318."
I lived in philly until '96. Now I live outside of Reading.
Up here, There's BARTA, which still has Orion I's and Gillig Phantoms that have stood the test of time, a handfull of Orion V's, Nova RTS's and CNG New Flyer C-40LF's.
Now They're buying Chance Opus Low Floors and Diesel New Flyer D-40LF's that sound exactly like their SEPTA Counterparts (with the Allison Trannies).
The Intercity Carriers are Capital Trailways and Bieber Tourways. Capital have MCI 102A3 buses with 6V92TA's with Manual Trannies and 2 or 3 MC9's. Bieber's 102A3 buses are being converted from manual to Allison B500 automatic transmissons. They also bought two Gillig Phantoms from San Diego Transit. They have the 6V92TA engine but they have Allison B400 Trannies now.
Whew! well, that's it. But again, it's finally good to be on Bustalk.
The BARTA's are 1991's and have the standard DDEC Series 92/Allison HT- 748 Combo. They're pretty fast for the most part.
The two KU Phantoms are ex. San Diego Transit 1988 models. They're owned by Bieber Tourways and they fixed them up real nice and might have installed the Allison B-400 transmissions. For the most part, the B-400 sounds similar, to a 6V92/HT- 748, but with longer shifts, since they have to climb long hills.
Welcome!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Seriously, I go Ding Ding for fun.
30s/N2
To FH
Normal to Jenifer St
L on Jenifer
X Western, Jenifer becomes Friendship Blvd
R on Willard
R on Wisconsin Ave to terminal stand at Hechts
Normal routing to Downtown
Other Ns
To FH
Normal to Friendship Blvd
L on Friendship
R on Willard
R on Wisconsin Ave to terminal stand at Hechts
Normal routing to Farragut Sq
T2
To FH
Normal to Wisconsin Ave
R on Wisconsin Ave to terminal stand at Hechts
To Rockville
R on Western
R on Friendship
L on Willard, then normal routing
Es
Normal routing, both directions
Ls
Normal routing, both directions
Ride-On 23
Same as T2 OR normal routing on inbound, uses 29 routing outbound to Friendship, then R on Friendship, L on Western, normal route from there
Ride-On 29
To FH
Normal routing to Friendship Blvd
L on Friendship
R on Western
R into bus station to terminal stand
To Bethesda or Glen Echo
R on Wisconsin Cir
R on Western Ave
Resume normal routing
Ride-On 1/11
To FH
Normal Route to Wisconsin Cir
Keep straight on Western
R on Wisconsin Ave
R on Wisconsin Cir
R into bus station to terminal stand
To SS
Normal routing
Ride-On 42
Normal routing in both directions
Now, as you may recall, the entire bus station loop was closed for repaving in the summer of 2002 for two weeks and buses used similar detours, some of which were really not that great. Using Hecht's as a layover point causes quite a bit of traffic on Wisconsin Ave because the buses take up an entire lane. My question is, can they really do this for two whole years? I think the establishment of bus stops elsewhere in the area could work because that is already one congested block of Wisconsin Avenue and to move the layover point just a block could make a big difference.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Mark
:-)
So, what is your favorite bus photo ever taken by the webmaster of a bus website?
Here's the link to mine, taken by John Villanueva over at SubwaySpot.com.
Once again, keep up the good work, John!
So, what's your personal favorite?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
2801 - M27 5837 - M2 8750 - M104 9188 - M42
5025 - M104 6125 - Q32 8766 - M42 9197 - M50
5032 - M4 7038 - M42 8772 - M104 9270 - M104
5050 - M5 8601 - M42 8794 - M104 9370 - M104
5125 - M104 8611 - M6 8796 - M104 9488 - M104
5130 - M104 8616 - M42 8797 - M104 9510 - M104
5170 - M104 8637 - M42 8798 - M104 9611 - M104
5182 - M104 8646 - Q32 8802 - M104 9623 - M104
5184 - M5 8647 - M6 9011 - M6 9625 - M104
5194 - M104 8668 - M42 9013 - M42
All the M104 and 42's were seen at Bryant Park on 42nd & 6th.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
PROOFREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If so, why? If not, please explain.
Are you interested in seeing more service, or less service along this line?
For example, on the Q46 Glen Oaks branch, too many "LIJ bound" passengers were being displaced at 260th Street in favor of a handful (or none, or anywhere between) going to the scheduled Glen Oaks terminal.
You're not likely to change a headway on the main portion of the route, and a 40-60 minute headway on any bus line during the day seems excessive (although I'm not familiar with the lines/routes you mention).
I don't think your data and subsequent possible suggestions will play any part in the bus service you reference. But it never hurts to try, and use it as a learning experience.
Good luck.
displace: to take the place of
An example: Busfans tend to be boring because they displace beautiful weather with online surfing.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
PROOFREAD! CLARIFY! LISTEN TO YOUR LITERACY/ENGLISH TEACHER! MAKE YOUR MESSAGES UNDERSTANDABLE! IT'S LIKE TALKING TO A FIVE-YEAR OLD WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR READING MY SCROLLING MESSAGE AND UNDERSTANDING WHY WE ARE SO PISSED OFF WITH YOU, CDTA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
This is why I love Bustalk. The info I learn,pics, wisecracks , oneliners and of course, the flaming .
That route has deceptively low ridership...usually you see 30ft El Dorados and cutaways (between the Gulph and Conshocken). However, would you know that this bus runs most frequently out of every other route from it's division (Frontier - not including the 124/125) during peak hours, and ALSO has one of the longest service hours (the 97, another Dorado route, has the longest).
I ride the 95, and they usually aren't packed...heck, I've had some buses to myself. However, that doesn't mean the ridership is that far down...maybe you just aren't riding the 85 enough during different times of the day in the right places.
Also remember the RIDERSHIP VARIES FROM DAY TO DAY. Just because one day the bus is empty doesn't mean the next day it is. You have to average ridership numbers through different times of the week or month or even year to get average ridership. Then a route is proposed to be cut and everything like that. Also, cutting a route is not just about the route itself...at least it's not supposed to be. What are the other alternative routes? Take Oren's rt 27. Alternative service: other ride-on routes and rt T2.
Ridership analysis is a complex process...but ask rideonrules, he knows this stuff a little bit better than me.
David
Jonn
Da Hui
Soon there will only be one agency with one bus running here, i'm not thrilled about the newest fastest growing area losing service.
W538AM - 4
S625 - 6
S645 - 2
M707 - 7
M727 - 11
DO NOT HAVE 745,805,828,845, AND 1005AM
S905 - 3
M927 - 8
M945 - 9
M1037 - 4
S1107 - 1
M1137 - 8
S1205PM - 12
M1237 - 15
DO NOT HAVE 105,137,207,442,502,545,622,645,743PM
M245 - 9
M302 - 11
M322 - 8
S345 - 6
M402 - 11
M422 - 12
M525 - 6
M542 - 3
M846 - 7
M946 - 5
S1044 - 1
M1146 - 1 LAST BUS NORTHBOUND
The letters next to the times is the terminal name the bus is coming from:
M -Manor(Nursing Home)
S - Stow Ave (Apartments)
W - Williams Rd (Small Apartments and a Private School) What I want to know is ehat should change of this. To me most of the numbers are low. What do you think should change.
We also need to know what the operating agency's scheduling guidelines are -- the guidelines show how many trips should be operated over a given period (hour, half hour, etc.) for a given ridership level. At NYC Transit, for example, there are different sets of guidelines for rush hours, "base" service, "shoulders," and overnights, as well as for "standard" 40-foot buses vs. artics vs. over-the-road express buses. These guidelines are on a sliding scale, so that the more heavily used routes would be allowed to have a few more people per bus on them than more lightly-used routes.
David
David
Let's say there's a route that has 200 people passing through the maximum load point between 8 and 8:30 on a weekday morning (which would be the AM rush). The guidelines would call for, say, 4 trips, which works out to an average of 50 people per bus.
Now let's say there's another route that has 500 people passing through the maximum load point between 8 and 8:30 on a weekday morning. The guidelines would call for, say, 8 trips, which works out to 62.5 people per bus. That's where the sliding scale comes into play -- if we were shooting for a flat 50 people per bus no matter how busy the route is, we would schedule 10 trips for the 500 people on the route. But we didn't -- we scheduled 8. See?
Now let me add another twist -- the first route is a "grid" route and the second route is a "feeder" route. A "grid" route has a lot of on/off activity -- there's no one big place where everybody's going, like a subway station or a hospital. A "feeder" route mostly picks up along the line and then drops most of them off at one place (again, like a subway station or a hospital) -- in the afternoon, the reverse happens -- everybody piles on at the start of the trip and they get off as the bus goes along the line.
David
YOU ARE BECOMING SO PERVASIVE THAT IN MY OPINION, YOU ARE ALMOST JUST AS BAD AS DEFJEF OVER AT SUBTALK (THANK GOD YOU AREN'T). STOP ASKING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKE YOUR POINTS CLEAR!!!!!! YOU CONFUSE THE H__L OUT OF EVERYBODY!!!!!!!! IF WE CAN'T ANSWER YOU, IT'S BECAUSE WE MAY NOT KNOW THE ANSWER OR WE CAN'T STAND YOU OR YOU JUST DO NOT POST IN AN ORGANIZED UNDERSTANDABLE MANNER!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR READING MY SECOND SCROLLING MESSAGE, CDTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
CDTA
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Of course, you could simply right-click the message and view the source. You could then immediately read the scrolling message as static text.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I am a new poster at Subtalk and I last posted at Bustalk in March 2003, so I am kind of "new" there. I live in Phoenix and I moved from New York in 1993. I have been a railroad/subway/anything on rails enthusiast for as long as I can remember, and I have been a busfan for 3 years. I go back to New York sometimes in the summer, and when I have an opportunity I try to ride some of the trains there. I also ride the Phoenix area bus system, Valley Metro often (as there is not much else there besides buses) and that led me to become a busfan as well.
Rosco
(The guy former known as phoenix6116 at Bustalk)
People who use TransitGallery.com will see a big change, better service and more new supported stuff and new improved, you've been waiting for, FTP Feature!
This fun will begin sometime between May to June!
Also, soon I will offer email with TransitGallery.com and it will be available to members only.
I'm glad people now starting putting videos and I sucessfully repaired and upgrade to a new version however, version 3.0 will be due in May which will be much better.
Again, thanks for your support !
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
OOps, The better vantage points came out blurry(dang bumps).
Obviously no grab bars. Nice blue floors. Nice highback plush cushion seats with springs on the bottom. Push strip stop request thing along top of the windows. Driver operated rear doors.
Very nice bus.
Also, anyone know how to fix up pictures that were taken in the overcast? They got this hue to them.
Because of the fact that Phoenix's transit system is not covered that well in many websites (except for NATransit.com and western-transit.com), I was thinking about starting to take pictures of some of the PHX buses and sending them in somewhere. I know that some transit systems you need to get a photo permit. Are there any restrictions for taking pics (inside buses and outside) for Phoenix?
However, the hardest thing will be getting pictures of old equipment. I have searched and there are NO pictures that I know of from buses built before 1985 in Phoenix. If anyone happens to have these or know where I can find these, please either send me the link or post them here. I'll try to start taking pictures as soon as I can find a camera.
Also, if anyone has any Phoenix roster information, could you please tell me where it is at?
Thanks a lot,
Rosco
As far as buses go, if you're on a street corner or a mall parking lot, I doubt there's any legal issues in regards to taking photos. It's a public place and a public object.
And as far as you taking pictures and posting them here, good, takes the pressure off me to de-northeast-ify the place. :)
Oh, plus when I take a photo of the inside of a bus, I'm sneaking it in when the bus is empty or etc. I've been noticing some drivers around my parts probably would have zero problem anyway.
I'm not sure about Valley Metro's numerous transit centers, since they are technically private property. If you are questioned by a Valley Metro employee, explain politely what you are doing. Some transit systems have no problem with photographers.
I don't take many interior photos, but if I do it is when the bus is empty. As a rule, I try not to get people in my photos unless they are boarding a bus - one thing I've learned over the years is that some people do not like having their picture taken by a stranger.
Good luck, and have fun!
Jim D.
Don't you love it too?:-)
Purely speculative.
I get on 263 and the bus has slow acceleration and it is nearly filled up but its a good ride & I just miss 154 on the Q74 so I change at Union Tpke for the Q46 and I ride 505 to the last stop then I get on 1166 on the Q10 and I ride it to JFK Airport via Conduit and it was a fast ride, went through the terminals quickly and I see three Classics [712,714,715] along the way. So then I get on 8017 on the B15 and its a fast ride along Conduit Av and the Airport roads but the suspensions were kinda shaky. So I get off at Ashford St to catch 9176 on the B6 LTD, which I just made and its a mellow ride along the way and I take it to East 16 St to catch the Q and some notables include seeing 9231,9247,9316 & 9327. Then I finish my trip after riding the Q to my home stop.
R42 4947 (B)
O5 6047 M60
O5 256 Q48
O5 263 Q44
O5 505 Q46
GBL RTS 1166 Q10
RTS 8017 B15
RTS 9176 B6 LTD
R68 2862 (Q)
Da Hui
Those were probably Gillig low-floor buses (at least the ones for Hertz and Avis; don't know what National might have).
Bx31 # 7675
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BTW, that's one for you Brandon, one for Kyle (patylekenny), one for Daryl (Transitguy5501), and one each for the sororities at St. John's University for whom I delayed my SEPTA trip (Gamma Phi Beta, Zeta Mu Chapter, and Lambda Phi.) You may decide upon yourselves who wants what M and M. I will take the one on the bottom.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Dude, that's freakin enough already. Let me guess, just recently you're not a pledge anymore?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
5454, 5497, 5561, 5569, 5692, 5711, 5712
I think there are a few others, but these are the ones that I have personally seen.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
Interesting how a major airline announced paycuts for everyone the same week SEPTA ups it's debt over 2-5million bucks(depending on # of TWU workers. Not sure the total).
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
There are three words in the zoning code that every NIMBY hates: "as of right." Basically, it means that a proposed development that complies with the letter of the code (say, a three-bedroom house in a low-density residential zone, or a bus depot in a manufacturing zone) does not need to go through the public review process.
Da Hui
Got the 7 train out of Flushing to TSQ. Spotted the circus train at HP Av just before the tunnel.
Walked over to PABT and hung out for a few hrs....that place is alot bigger than I thought. Saw some DeCamp, some Lakeland. Then I went out to 9th and....uh.....41st? Saw a hole load of buses comming in from west of the hudson. Got some nice pictures(atleast I hope). A few hounds(one of them read Mobile, Al on the destination sign), some Academy, Martz, Bieber, and a few Red and Tans.
Took 1/9 to 50th, walked over to my mom's office, got some more cash. Went over to that exhibit they got at the UBS building, pretty neat. Took the B/D or w/e it is now from Rockefeller to 42nd, got the 7 to GCT, met up with a friend from phili.
Commin home I grabbed the L from 3rd Av, took it to the 3, met my mom at NYP, took LIRR PW line home.
I'm really hoping my pictures came out. Got some pics from the train and a lot of bus pics at PABT.
Enjoy!
IMO, the sound from DB's Flxibles is better than their counterpart in VTA....
When you bid, and win...then you work with the seller and send them funds to cover your bid and shipping/handling. ONLY if you are the winning bidder.
2)I supposed they carried as many readings as whatever depot the bus was operating out of.
3)Try and remember the answer questions before reasking them again. :)
4)Sometimes they get refueled, maintences sometimes clean them out. Some of them get repairs if needed.
2.) A lot of them. If you want a specific number, lets just say 87
3.) Contact CDTA's Transit Analyst Or Transit Planner
4.) They get inspected, serviced, cleaned, money taken out of the farebox, refueled, sleep overnight, inspected, and then they go back out the next day.
5.) CLICK HERE
6.) Yes, CLICK HERE
Those 6 NJT routes ran from the old TNJ/NJT Elizabeth garage, and the roll sign is likely from a 1976 Flxible New Look suburban.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
We were all kids at one time. Give him a break. Or killfile him.
What do you mean?
Arti
MetroB
Was he actually a transit advocate in addition to a beat reporter?
Da Hui
My reports are that buses from both depots have been breaking down. Most of these people DO ride Yukon buses, but Yukon is significantly more overcrowded than Castleton. It must be hell trying to service all of those buses properly.
Da Hui
MetroB
The problem is, unless that location is absolutely, positively known to be the maximum load point (or at least the point at which the route splits or comes together), the numbers will be meaningless.
David
David
David
Find out the route's busiest point(s) and do your counts there over two entire service days. (Two days are preferable, to allow for things like variability in riding, accidents, and/or missing trips). Or just contact the agency's scheduling people and ask for their numbers.
I have kept quiet over this moron up until now but I feel it is just going over the top. Nothing but the same stupid questions a million times over!
For everyone's benefit CDTA, please STOP IT.
Da Hui
Offline or online it does not matter
Thank You
Da Hui
David
1-The B-17 Remsen Avenue route will operate with one branch between Eastern Parkway/Utica Avenue Station and Seaview Avenue/East 108th Street
2-A new bus route which i will call the B-18 will operate from Seaview Ave/East 80th Street to Gateway Mall as follows
via East 80th Street,East82nd Street,Avenue L,Remsen Avenue,Glenwood Road,Cozine Avenue,Fountain Avenue,Seaview Avenue,Erskine Street and stand at Gateway Mall
Return via Erskine Street,Vandaila Avenue,Fountain Avenue,Cozine Avenue,Glenwood Road,East 103rd Street,Flatlands Avenue,East 96th Street,Glenwood Road,Rockaway Parkway,Flatlands Avenue,Remsen Avenue,Avenue L,Paedegat 14thStreet(?),Paedegat Avenue,Seaview Avenue,East 80th Street and stand. During early AM rush buses will operate From Seaview/E. 80th St to Rockaway Pkway/Glenwood Rd only.
Benefits:One seat ride from Canarsie to Gateway Mall,easier transfer from Starrett City via the B-83(2 buses instead of current3 buses),bus service to Cozine Avenue Industrial Park, Easy transfer to/from the B-6,B-17,B-42,B-47,B-60 and B-82 routes from other parts of Brooklyn
Any comments
Thank You
David
Da Hui
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/cbt2/id17.html
What are the best bus routes around the city to drive? and why?
Some like long runs and few trips ie B-6 ,B-41 ,B-44,B-46 or B-82
Some like short runs and more trips ie B-42 or B-74
Depends on what each drive likes
Thats my opinion
Thank You
A good majority prefer a light, short run with maximum pay and weekends off. Most runs aren't picked by location, but by included days off and the amount the run pays.
For me personally, I'd pick the Q79 regardless of the pay or days off. I prefer peace, quiet and minimal stress -- if possible :-)
Since that's not possible due to my depot peg, I pick by vehicle time, included boost time meal time, run on/off time and differential.
One sad note. Late one night the police spotted an M116 in an odd position at the East Side turnaround...120th and Garibaldi?...and discovered the operator had suffered a fatal heart attack. I was driving a cab then and I kinda identified with the guy. To die like that, all alone. No one even knowing until it was too late. A shame!
B31-#5084-NOVABUS
B3-#9096-NOVABUS
Da Hui
David
Da Hui
David
Example:
Run 012 on the Q98:
Report: 7:00 AM
Pull-Out: 7:08 AM
Pill-In: 12:01 PM
Pull-Out: 12:58 PM
Pull-In: 2:46 PM
Clear: 2:50 PM
The spread (total time from report to clear) is less than 8 hours. It's 7 hours and 50 minutes. The run actually pays 8 hours. This run will include a "boost" of 10 minutes additional pay to bring the run to 8 hours. This additional 10 minutes is time not worked.
However, should the operator of this run pull-in a maximum of 10 minutes late, or lose 10 minutes of run time for any given reason (road-call, sick-off-run, etc), the operator will not receive those 10 minutes extra pay as additional overtime.
The run number remains constant throughout the bus operators workday. The run number on the bus will change as a relief is made, but the run number assigned to a run will never change.
Run numbers are assigned to RUNS- not buses, not necessarily bus drivers. The oddity here is that should B/O Smith "go sick", his run will be covered by someone else who will then become "Run 001". Run 001 remains Run 001 (which has a predetermined schedule and pay).
Run 011 on the Q97:
Report: 7:00 AM
Pull-Out: 7:08 AM
R-6: 12:01 PM
R-9: 12:58 PM
Pull-In: 2:46 PM
Clear: 2:50 PM
BO Smith, Run 11 pulls bus 9990 out of the depot at 7:08 AM. Run 11 then gets relieved by Run 006 (who is just starting his day and has no bus, but walked or otherwise traveled to the relief point) at 12:01 PM. He gives his bus (9990) to BO Jones who changes the run number to 006. Run 006 now follows his schedule operating bus 9990.
At 12:58 PM, BO Smith comes back from "meal" (his lunch) and takes bus 9992 from Run 009 (who is now going on his lunch). BO Smith changes the run number from 009 to 011 and continues his schedule in passenger service.
At 1:00 PM, BO Smith feels ill. He had White Castle and Popeyes and can't continue in service. He pulls his bus off the road, notifies console that he's "going sick off run" and pulls into the depot. His run pay is cut for time actually worked and his day is done.
At 1:15 PM, BO Green, who is working the 11AM to 3PM "Reserve Trick" (standby) is notified that is instructed to complete the run left open by BO Smith. BO Green pulls out bus 9993, sets the run number to 011 and follows the schedule for Run 011.
Does this make sense? Let me know if I'm not clear.
Down here in Washington, we have block numbers not run numbers. The block number stays with the bus regardless of how many times there is an operator change. In New York, the run number changes every time there is a B/O change.
Michael
Washington, DC
Da Hui
David
David
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
There's a key distinction to be made:
- A run is a specific driver's assignment, which (at NYCT) typically includes trips on multiple blocks.
- A block is a set of trips covered by a physical bus, from pull-out to pull-in. If a block is long enough (up to 20 hours at NYCT), it might be covered by multiple runs (drivers) making reliefs and getting relieved.
Some agencies focus primarily on blocks, others on runs. NYCT uses blocks in the schedule development process but expresses the final result in terms of runs.
Michael
Washington, DC
Does NYCT Bus have any split runs or are they all straight?
Everyone else either pulls-in or gets relieved on the half, unless they have an "unofficial official" agreement with the Yard SLD.
Aside from hawks, a bus could be out for upwards of 20 hours on many different routes (especially now with Misc Interlining) running any number of Runs. From 2 to (I guess) 8 or 9 different runs, depending upon the number of reliefs, number of runs on a route (scheduled to remain in serrvice, of course) and if that bus pulled-in was drilled and sent back out.
Big Al can fill in the details.
David
So in response to CDTA's question (purely conjecture, anyone can feel free to correct it to make it more accurate):
A large number of straights and splits probably report starting between 3 and 4 AM and continuing to about 6 or 7 AM
The splits clear between 8 and 10 AM
The AM straights clear between 12 and 2 PM at which time the PM straights report
The splits return for PM rush between 2 and 4 PM
Operators covering evenings begin to report around 3 or 4 PM and work until around midnight or 1 AM
Hawks fall somewhere in all that
Comes out at 730am on bus 8646
Goes to lunch at 1200pm
While at lunch another driver takes over run 11 on bus say 9025
Then again when that driver goes to lunch
Da Hui
Da Hui
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
BIG AL
PS: Just kidding. I don't want you to have a heart attack.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Would it help if NJT opened a garage somewhere in Middlesex County and created new bus routes to help underserved areas? Or should NJT open a garage to add capacity? They could send the spares from Northern Garages (Metro Bs and Ds, RTS, MCIs). Maybe it would be a good opportunity for NJT to order buses from Millennium RTS. What do you think?
MetroB
An articulated city bus can haul a large load of passengers and still get around corners.
Bob Golfen
Road Test
Apr. 10, 2004 12:00 AM
Bus drivers hate it when you mention Ralph Kramden. That's so corny, going back to when Jackie Gleason portrayed the harried New York bus driver on The Honeymooners.
Those were the days, when bus drivers were bus drivers, before they were somehow upgraded to bus operators, as they're now called.
Whatever they are, I got to be one. And not only did I drive the bus, I drove the oversize kind that bends around corners.
A strange and amazing experience, fraught with terror? Not really, although I was somewhat concerned about flipping a $500,000 city bus while doing hot laps on a racetrack.
The track was a curving road course at Firebird International Raceway. The test vehicle was one of the 20 new articulated buses recently put on the street by Valley Metro.
The only strange and amazing part was Valley Metro entrusting me with one of their new buses. Driving instructor Jim Valenziano and several transit-company executives were brave enough to ride along. A Ralph Kramden joke elicited a blank stare.
The articulated bus is a marvel of modern technology, although its styling hasn't changed much over the years. What it is, mainly, is big. More than 60 feet long, 8˝ feet wide and weighing 41,000 pounds (about 14 Honda Civics), this was the biggest, heaviest, most expensive vehicle I've ever driven.
Actually, my hot laps weren't all that hot, rarely crossing the 40 mph range. At that, I felt like I was hurtling along. I wanted to stop for passengers and holler, "Watch your step!" But that was not to be.
At least the Valley Metro people gave me a hat to wear, one of those old-fashioned bus-driver hats that hardly any drivers use anymore. They call them "Jackie Gleasons."
What it is
An articulated city bus built by New Flyer Industries of Winnipeg, Canada.
Performance
Here's a surprise: The 41,000-pound bus (not including riders) is powered by a four-cylinder diesel engine. Just like a Volkswagen Jetta TDI.
But the bus engine displaces 7 liters, making each piston about the size of a 5-pound coffee can. The turbocharged diesel churns out 330 horsepower, which doesn't sound like much unless you consider its 1,100 pound-feet of torque. That's serious muscle.
Built by Detroit Diesel and linked to a five-speed Allison automatic transmission, the engine accelerates quietly, with nearly imperceptible gear changes.
The buses qualify as alternative-fuel vehicles because they use ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel. Eventually, all diesel fuel will be ultra-low sulfur, but for now, it's alternative.
The engine is rated for more than a half-million miles before it needs a rebuild, according to the manufacturer.
The fuel tank holds 147 gallons, which is a good thing since mileage is a paltry 1.7 mpg city and 3 mpg highway.
Drivability
As driving instructor Jim Valenziano said, the bus is pretty responsive for what it is.
The bus was surprisingly easy to maneuver, not nearly as difficult as I anticipated. Cornering was weird. Obviously, you have to take corners very wide, keeping in mind the many thousands of pounds of bus lurching behind you, swinging around and bending in half. I kept all 10 wheels on the track.
The air brakes are highly effective, enough to elicit a few shrieks from the back when at first I hit them too hard. Air suspension provides a smooth ride, as well as allowing the bus to "kneel" for any passenger needing a smaller step up.
Styling
Though not as flashy as Valley Metro's new rapid buses, the articulated bus has a certain stoic appeal.
Interior
There's seating for 55 people, plus as many as 45 strap hangers. Transit folk call the maximum capacity the "crush load," which doesn't sound too appealing.
The seats are attractively upholstered with heavy fabric, with cushions that can be replaced quickly for wear or vandalism.
The floor is noticeably lower than buses of the past, making it easier to board.
Behind the wheel, the driver is faced with an initially bewildering array of switches across the front and side that control engine functions, suspension height, door opening, wheelchair ramp, climate control and a bunch of other stuff.
A newly designed electronic screen provides the driver with immediate information about traffic conditions, route connections and other news from headquarters.
The seating position is high and thronelike, giving the driver a commanding view of the road.
Pricing
The bus comes nearly complete from New Flyer at $474,243. Valley Metro adds such extras as the fare box and electronic information system, for a total of $507,243. Part of the cost of the 20 articulated buses came from the proceeds of Arizona Lottery tickets.
Bottom line
Roomy and responsive, the articulated bus is everything you could desire in a city bus. Ralph Kramden never had it so good.
------------------------------------------------------------------
New Flyer DLF60 articulated bus
Vehicle type: 55-passenger, Three-door urban bus, rear-wheel drive.
Base price: $474,243.
Price as tested: $507,243.
Engine: 7-liter, inline-four diesel, 330 horsepower, 1,100 pound-feet of torque.
Transmission: Five-speed automatic.
Total length: 60.7 feet.
Curb weight: 41,000 pounds.
EPA mileage: 1.7 city, 3 highway.
Highs:
• Roomy interior.
• Engine performance.
• Bends in the middle
Lows:
• Dicey handling.
• Hard to park.
• Grim fuel mileage.
Copyright 2004, azcentral.com. All rights reserved.
The D60LF's that I drive get a whopping TWO miles per gallon....
Anybody know what routes NBBC operates? Like maybe downtown Newburgh to the Beacon Metro-North station? ;=D
I don't kwow whether this is the bus you saw, but Leprechaun Lines operates buses between Beacon and Newburgh, which also serve Stewart International Airport. Info is available at this web address:
http://www.leprechaunlines.com/commuter_newburghbeacon.cfm
The D60LF's that I drive get a whopping TWO miles per gallon....
Did any of them get upgraded to the 6V92 at all?
Any info is appreciated.
A few of the buses that came with 6V-71 were upgraded to 6V-92 (including all of the 1981 RTSs that were rehabbed and became 7000s/7500s). Supposedly a few buses that came with 6V-92 were downgraded to 6V-71!
1983 RTS 3160 was the test bus for the Series 50 engine.
David
Some of the '81 buses came with the DD 6V-92TA engine. Those were 1288-1317 and 2281-2300. 1308 was an unlucky recipient of the DD 6V-71N early in it's life.
'82 - PA1717 and PA1743 also had their 6V-92TAs swapped for the dreadful 6V-71N.
CDTA
HELLDorado on the LUCY
New Flyer D40LF 5432 on the 44 line by 30 Street Station
NABI 416 5373 at 69 Street Terminal
SEPTA Neoplan 7123 at Olney Terminal
M and Ms for everyone! (One for Daryl, Brandon, and Kyle, the other two for the two St. John's University sororities that delayed my trip to Philly, Lambda Phi and Gamma Phi Beta (Zeta Mu Chapter)! Actually, this is SEPTA 5711 on the 18 on Olney Avenue at Broad Street, on the far side from the terminal.
For you old time Neoplan fans, I present:
Neoplan AN440EI 3353, at Olney!
Last but not least is:
Neoplan AN460 7201 at JFK Boulevard and 15th Street, across from that great City Hall!
Enjoy!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Daryl Jackson aka Frankford3425
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Nice pics!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If more service is needed (and I don't think it is), headways can be shortened. (And on the flip side, if artics are implemented, headways will be lengthened. Not only will the ride be slower, but the wait for the bus will be longer.)
Getting to New York
Sunday, April 11, 2004; Page P02
Planes, trains, automobiles and ultra-cheap buses all play their part in a trip to the Big Apple. Here's how to get from here to there.
• PLANE: Many carriers offer service from the D.C. area airports to Newark, LaGuardia and JFK, starting at about $140 round trip, with restrictions. Once on the ground, here's how to get into town:
* From JFK (718-244-4444, www.panynj.gov/aviation/jfkframe.HTM). Taxi fare for the 15-mile, 30- to 60-minute trip to Manhattan costs $35 ($45 after May 3), plus tolls (about $4) and tip. (From Manhattan to the airport, the cost is metered fare plus tolls/tip.) For $5, the new AirTrain JFK takes you to the Long Island Rail Road and E, J/Z subways at Jamaica Station and the A subway at the Howard Beach station, from which it's a 60- to 75-minute ride to midtown. MetroCard, the electronic fare card used for subways and buses, is $2 per ride and available at the airport and subway stations. Info: 718-330-1234, www.mta.nyc.ny.us.
New York Airport Service Express Bus (718-875-8200, www.nyairportservice.com) runs between JFK and Grand Central Terminal, Port Authority and Penn Station; the 50- to 70-minute ride is $13 one way, $23 round trip.
SuperShuttle (800-451-0455, www.supershuttle.com) leaves every 15 to 20 minutes and is $17 one way.
* From LaGuardia (718-533-3400, www.panynj.gov/aviation/lgaframe.HTM). Taxi fare for the eight-mile, 30- to 45-minute trip costs $16 to $27, plus tolls (about $4) and tip. The M60 public bus, which stops at the terminal, goes to 125th Street and Lexington Avenue in Manhattan, and other stops.
SuperShuttle charges $15 to anywhere in Manhattan. For the 40- to 60-minute ride, New York Airport Service Express Bus charges $10 one way, $17 round trip between LaGuardia and Grand Central Terminal, Port Authority and Penn Station.
* From Newark (973-961-6000, www.panynj.gov/aviation/ewrframe.HTM). Taxi fare for the 16-mile, 45- to 60-minute trip costs $40 to $60, plus tolls (about $10) and tip.
The Olympia Newark Airport Express (908-354-3330, www.olympiabus.com) goes to Grand Central Station and Port Authority; the trip takes 45 to 60 minutes and is $12 one way, $19 round trip.
The AirTrain leaves from the gate level and connects to the Rail Link Station, where you can access trains to New York's Penn Station (one way on Jersey Transit is $11.55 and takes 30 minutes; one way on Amtrak is $26 and takes 25 minutes). Details: 800-626-7433, www.njtransit.com; 800-872-7245, www.amtrak.com.
Another option: Take the No. 62 bus ($1.10) to Newark's Penn Station, then hop a PATH train ($1.50) for the 35-minute ride to 33rd Street via Jersey City. Info: 800-234-7284, www.panynj.com/path/index.html.
• BUS: Greyhound and Peter Pan have daily service, departing almost hourly with additional trips on weekends. Buses run from the D.C. terminal (1005 First St. NE) to New York's Port Authority Bus Terminal (Eighth Avenue and 41st Street). The ride takes 41/2 to 5 hours. Fares are $38 one way, $70 round trip; $20 one-way tickets available with advance purchase. Info: 800-231-2222, www.greyhound.com.
Washington Deluxe runs a few buses a day for $20 one way, $35 round trip. Buses depart Washington from 1015 15th St. NW and 441 New Jersey Ave. NW and stop at 303 W. 34th St. and in Brooklyn. Reserve ahead. Details: 866-287-6932, www.washny.com.
For Chinatown to Chinatown service, Today Travel leaves from 610 I St. NW and arrives at 88 E. Broadway (four blocks from the East Broadway stop on the F train). Purchase tickets ($20 one way, $35 round trip) from www.ivymedia.com/washingtondc; show your confirmation printout at the office and you'll get an assigned seat number.
• TRAIN: Amtrak's Acela Express high-speed train goes from D.C.'s Union Station to New York's Penn Station in 2 hours 45 minutes; one-way fares are $157 for business class. The three-hour trip on the Metroliner starts at $109 one way in business class. Fares for regional service (about 31/2 hours in less-cushy cars) start at $72 one way. Info: 800-872-7245, www.amtrak.com.
• CAR: It takes about 41/2 hours to cover the 238 miles from the Beltway to New York. As hotel parking and garages run upward from $20 per day, consider parking in northern New Jersey and taking a train or ferry to Manhattan.
* Trains from Hoboken, N.J. PATH trains operate daily from Hoboken to several stops in Manhattan for $1.50 each way; commute time to West 33rd Street is 14 minutes. Paid parking available nearby. Details: 800-234-7284, www.panynj.gov/path/index.html.
* Trains from Metropark in Iselin, N.J., or ferries from Jersey ports. See accompanying Lab Report.
• FOR MORE INFORMATION: Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, 212-435-7000, www.panynj.gov.
-- Anne McDonough
Lab Report: N.J. Transit Train vs. N.Y. Waterway Ferry
Research Question: Readers bound for Manhattan frequently ask us, "How can I drive to New York without parking in the city?" Easy. Stop in New Jersey. We sent Travel staffers Andrea Sachs (ferry from Weehawken) and John Deiner (train from Metropark station in Iselin) to weigh two good options.
N.J. TRANSIT TRAIN FROM METROPARK
* TRANSIT TIME: About 4 hours 15 minutes (3 hours 20 minutes/204 miles by car from D.C., plus 10 minutes to park and buy a ticket and 45 minutes on the train -- there was one waiting for us when we got to the platform).
* COST (EXCEPT FOR GAS): $22.80 for round-trip tolls; $10.25 off-peak round-trip train fare; $4 parking ($2 a day on weekends, $5 weekdays). Total: $37.05.
* PROS: Easy to find off the Garden State Parkway (via Exit 11 of the Jersey Turnpike) . . . Abundant covered parking . . . Snack bar at station . . . Both automated and live ticket vendors . . . Two bucks a day for parking on weekends is a real deal . . . Relaxing train ride ends in Penn Station, in heart of Manhattan . . . Jersey Transit's NYC concourse is a marble-and-granite beaut.
* CONS: If you don't buy your ticket at station, you're subject to a $5 surcharge from conductor . . . Miss a train and you could wait up to a half-hour for the next one . . . Trains can be crowded . . . Pay attention to where you park, or you may end up wandering aimlessly around the labyrinthine lot . . . Traffic around the Metropark station can be killer.
* INFO: The Metropark station is directly off Exit 131 of the Garden State Parkway. Contact New Jersey Transit (800-626-RIDE, www.njtransit.com) for details.
FERRY FROM WEEHAWKEN, N.J.
* TRANSIT TIME: 4 hours 7 minutes (3 hours 40 minutes/ 225 miles by car from D.C.; 10 minutes to park and buy ticket; 10-minute wait for a ferry; seven-minute crossing).
* COST (EXCEPT FOR GAS): $26.70 for round-trip tolls; $10 round-trip ferry fare; $14 parking ($7 a day on weekends or before 10 a.m. weekdays, $9 after 10 a.m. weekdays). Total: $50.70.
* PROS: Frequent departures every 10, 15 or 20 minutes . . . Ferries run till midnight or 1 a.m., depending on night . . . Ample parking . . . Multiple departure points on the Jersey and Manhattan sides, such as Jersey City and the World Financial Center . . . On-site mini-marts sell provisions without NYC-inflated prices . . . Catch some rays on the open upper deck, or warm up inside . . . Bathroom on board . . . Buses idle outside the West 38th Street terminal, and ferry riders can catch a free lift on six routes.
* CONS: During rush hour, boat can get crowded with commuters, or on weekend returns, with shoppers and tourists . . . Weehawken terminal is a bit grungy . . . Many of the other ports, including downtown, run weekdays only . . . The ride's over, dare we say it, too quickly.
* INFO: The Port Imperial-Weehawken terminal is off Exit 16E of the Jersey Turnpike. Contact N.Y. Waterway (800-53-FERRY, http://nywaterway.com) for details.
Conclusion:Both offer convenient, relatively affordable access to the city, as long as you're willing to battle I-95 and the Jersey Turnpike. Go with the ferry for the view, the train if you want a little chill time before arrival.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
With all due respects to John Villanueva for leaving the SubwaySpot community gallery.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Dropped:
2 Ampere - became Springdale Avenue Branch of 34 Market Street
3 Bergen - covered by re-routed 9 Clifton
8 Lyons Avenue - merged into 39/48 Harrison-Union
12 Fleet Street - covered by extension of 40 Kearny-Port Newark
13A Nutley-Belleville - became Belleville branch of 13 Broad-Clinton
14 Clinton Place - became Clinton branch of 13-Broad Clinton, (express runs via Chancellor Avenue turned over to 51 Park Ave
23 Central - became Scotland Road branch of 24 Orange-Elizabeth
54 Devine - covered by Ivy Hill branch of 1 Newark
61 Normal Avenue - covered by 27 Mt.Prospect and 60 Newark-Montclair
82 Watsessing - upper segment became Bloomfield nranch of 34 Market Street, lower segment added to 51 Park Ave
112 Clifton-Newark - replaced by Newark extension of 74 Main-Passaic
Changed:
1 Newark - re-routing in western Newark and Ironbound section
9 Clifton - re-routing in southern Newark to cover old route 3
13 Broad-Clinton - branches added to cover old 13A and 14
21 Orange - service to main terminals of Newark Airport dropped, now 62
24 Orange-Elizabeth - Scotland Road branch created to replace 23 service, all runs end at Erie Loop instead of West Orange, adjustments in Elizabeth routing
25 Springfiled Avenue - re-routing in Ironbound section of Newark
27 Mt. Prospect - new Bloomfield branch to cover former 61
34 Market Street - re-routing in Ironbound, new Bloomfield branch replaces 82, new Springdale Avenue branch replaces 2
39/48 Harrison-Union - combination of 39 Harrison and 48 Maple Avenue (merge point: downtown Newark), Irvington branch replaces 8
40 Kearny-Port Newark - extended from downtown Newark
51 Park Avenue - western end changed from West Orange to Erie Loop, eastern end extended from Park Ave City Subway stop through downtown Newark (old 82) and extended to Hillside along Elizabeth Avenue or via Chancellor Ave to Irvington (replacing 14 express)
62 Newark-Perth Amboy - service added to Newark Airport to replace 21
74 Main-Passaic - extended south from Clifton endpoint through Nutley and Belleville to Newark Subway to replace 112
New:
38 Elizabeth-Rahway
MetroB
25 also dates back to the early days of Public Service, also from Hilton.
94 wasn't an NJT route until Trackless Transit went under in 1983. It has since always been an Orange route.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Articulated buses have a tighter turning radius than 40-footers. They can make curves that 40-footers can't.
David
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
What? You mean when the D60HF is reversing all the fluorescent lights go out just to provide enough white light power to the reverser taillamps?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
It has NOTHING to do with the amount of power equired for the taillamps.
It has to do with the bus operator being able to use the passenger windows (by looking over their shoulder) to assure everything is totally clear when backing up. No lights = no glare, and then you CAN see out the windows at night.
We had 1983 Gillig Phantoms where I drive that did that sort of thing, soit isn't anything new.
David
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
BIG AL
BIG AL
Da Hui
Da Hui
I don't have access to the online timetable right now, but recollect that last time I looked at it, the map eliminated the loop and the timetable eliminated the Franklin General timepoint. The loop hasn't been run in many, many months. As an aside, I think the hospital is now called Franklin Medical Center and not Franklin General.
It's more of a limit than a quota. Quota implys you should use all 30 posts a day. :)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
On my layover in Reading I heard there was bomb scare in the Greyhound Terminal in Philly, and no one was getting in or out. That eventually delayed my trip because the Capitol Trailways bus that I was riding had to wait for it's connector from Philly.
Basically, the highlight from yesterday was hearing what a 6V92TA with a blown muffler sounds like on an MCI. It sounded pretty Badass.
Lastly, a 45FT. Bus is probably fun to drive unless you have to make a turn that is less then 45 degrees and you're behind schedule.
B1-#7531-REMAN RTS
Acela
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
P.S. By the way, 3rd Av buses also use the south tube but they get off before 2nd Av. More like 1st Av...I think.
BTW, I've taken QSC Express inbound via the tunnel. Nice view of Manhattan as you come in the LIE. The view out, if the take the upper level of the bridge, is nice too.
When the HOV lane is closed, buses are in mixed traffic on the westbound side of the LIE and use the north tube of the Tunnel.
I let two buses pass by then the third one is O7 6367 on the M1 LTD so I board at Housto St and its basically the same on the inside but the STOP REQUEST sign is far better than in the CNG's. The Cummins engine is very quiet from the inside and not too noisy from the outside [I don't own a sound recorder othersiwe I would of been able to link it]. Anyway its was a cool ride along Madison/Park Aves then I ride it to 147 St and it was raining & I walk back to 145 St, only to miss two Bx19's but luckily seeing it is prone to bunching, I catch 1094 and take the short ride to Broadway to catch the M5 LTD.
I wait about 3 minutes for 5133 to pull in and we run via Riverside Drive and it was a cool, quiet ride then at 72 St, this guy asked the B/O if the M5 stopped at 65 St, he told him yes but then he says that two of them bypassed it and waited nearly 1/2 hour; and he had no jacket so he might be getting a cold ;-). Then this lady asks the B/O This bus doesn't stop at 65 St? Then he has to tell the whole bus the rest of the LTD stops and he gave a small laugh to keep from getting frustrated. To make things worse, there was a damned M5 timetable right there :-\. I see four M104's in a row [what else is new] then after going around CC, I see two more in a row heading north.
Its a good ride along 5 Av even though there was some traffic and I get off at 33 St and walk over to the 6 train but then I see the O7 Hybrid again and I managed to get a pic of it. So it rains a little harder and I get on 8644 and the bus # is to the right when its normally in the center and had tape over it heh. Then I catch the B train at 34 St then I take the B8 and finish my trip.
NF 893 B8
RTS 9458 B41 LTD
R68 2517 (D)
R46 5975 (V)
NF Artic 1051 M14
O7 6367 M1 LTD
NF Artic 1094 Bx19
RTS 5133 M5 LTD
RTS 8644 M16
R40 4272 (B)
NF 981 B8
Sorry for changing the title.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Classic Coach is still going strong with a lot of Atlantic City line runs and airport vans.
Winston seems to have disappeared.
The LIALS bus was a Van Hool in white with Orange lettering "shadowed" in blue. It was sharp looking.
Does anyone know where the company is now based and how large it is ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2473275027&category=6728&sspagename=WDVW
PLEASE NOTE: I am in no way associated with the seller, just letting my fellow busfans know about the coach of topic. I was almost tempted to go get this one, assuming it was still in Richmond. But NY state is a little far for me to go for a bus! Enjoy.
-Fred
1-The B-74 is a feeder bus line to a subway route in this case Stillwell Avenue Terminal. I would estimate at least 98% of all B-74 passengers use the subway as their final destination. While some B-74 ridership will likely go to and from Pathmark i do not believe that it is sufficent enough to warrent an extenstion since passengers can transfer to the B-82
2-It will be hard to turn the B-74 around at Pathmark. This was the reason the B-82 was extended to Stillwell Avenue. I know that the x-28 still teminates at Canal Ave but those buses do not run as frequent as a local bus route
Thats my opinion only.
Thank You
It's probably on Harway only because when the trolley line was designed there probably wasn't any development along Bath Avenue east of 25th Avenue, cause if you look all the development there appears to be post-war. But there probably was some development on Harway but this really is only a guess.
Thank You
Thank You
Thank You
I am offering limited of beta testers wanted for our new version 3.0 which we hope to launch this Spring/Summer 2004, we will accept some numbers of members who can join the beta tester program. I will accept only 25 members at this time.... First 50 members who email me will be on this beta tester program.
What are the beta features?
1) FTP Feature - allows you to upload photos or videos and login in your account and it will be in yopur tempoary album on the fly, and move them to a new folder or delete them with no hassle.
2) E-Mail Account - New free email will be offered for you, and your email will be based on your username. The email account will come with 1GB of space, not need to worry about deleting other message and no banner ads or popups, ever!
3) Windows XP Publishing Wizard - For XP users, you can upload anything right from your desktop, that simple.
4) New improved layout navagation - new designed and better to use, make it easier for you to manage your account.
5) The free accounts will recieve a new extra space, a whopping of 1GB web space with unlimited albums and reminders!
If you are interested, please send email to transit@transitgallery.com and state your full name, your email address that you want to join the program.
I will keep it posted, check this thread as often you can for more new updates as well ...
Sorry for inconvience!
~Joe
This pic below was shot last year, 114 on the Loop, saw it on the loop again yesterday but too far away for another photo
Bee Line keeps their buses in good shape. And here's my bus...
Also going back I had a Coach USA bus on the Tappan Zee express. Had to ask the driver to make sure I was on the right bus!
Doesn't look like much of an express bus to me..... (hard seater)
And finally my bus, #635, well she ran very good but had some leaks...
The Q110 "express" buses are local buses to begin with because they come off their regular run on the Q110. Most of there express buses are used on the QM21 (if they are at all). In 1997-1998 school year while going to Baruch College in Manhattan along 23rd St, the QM21 would have the usual buses:
GMC RTS-06 #572-580 OR
MCI Classic Suburban TC-40102A #601-607
Sometimes, you'll find MCI Classic Suburban TC-40102A #608 on that Q110 "express" at 179th St. RARELY will they put a REAL express bus on that Q110 route. I use to live at 179th st and watch GMC RTS-06 #554 and a few TMC RTS-06 buses (3800s mostly) on that route. Hope that helps. Nice pics by the way.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
I know what these buses are in general...RTS this, Orion that: but I need the specifics. Company and actual version. Much thanks to all who reply!
All of the photos are so-so quality, save for the last one. Unfortunately, they are scans of disposable shots. :( In any case, I'm trying some supposed 'High Quality' camera from Kodak. The difference with this disposable is that you can get a free picture CD from a Kodak-supported developer. In any case, it will probably be better quality. This is where saving for a new digital camera will help!
And if anyone notifies me, I'm aware the images in the initial thread are down, but since I got the information I needed...there's no need to post 'em again, unless you want to see 'em again. :)
I have some questions about CTA's next bus replacement...
Do you know if CTA already schedule to replace thier old diesel buses (1990 TMC RTS's and 1991 Flxible Metros) with new low floor buses from either Gillig, NABI, Neoplan, New Flyer, Nova, or Orion?
In the meantime, except for 4 or 5 losses due to accidents or fire, the series is intact. However, they're showing their age, and according to CTA spokespeople, they've been troublesome to maintain. (The 1995-96 Flexible Metro-Es (6000-6329) seem to be much more reliable and are scheduled for a mid-life rehab soon.)
Delivery of 226 NABI Low-Floor Artics(Series 416?)(7500-7725) is under way and is about 50% complete. However, they're replacing much older buses: 1982 MAN Artics (Seattle hand-me-downs) and 1985 MAN Americanas.
The 1990-91 TMC RTS-08s (4400-4875) were extensively rehabbed in 2000-01. They're expected to remain in service at least through 2007.
Hope this helps.
-Dan T.
I notice you typed a question mark after "Series 416"....the correct
model is "436" for the 60' articulates and 416 are the standard 40'
long high floor NABI buses. But I could be slightly wrong.
Arthur Thomas
Samtrans which serves the suburbs south of San Francisco in San Mateo
County, CA recently recieved 55 NABI 436 articulated buses in 2002-2003...these buses are indeed high floors.
The CTA has stopped maintaining them, so most of them look pretty dreadful now. But, after all, they're almost 19 years old. By early summer, I think they'll all be history.
-Dan Terkell
1. A Run on the Q44 had a argument with a Female Officer after he was stopped for going through a Cash lane and arguing that his 15 years of service meant we shouldnt hassle him for such a minor offense.Well he was hassled ( The Officer pulled him over to the side) and also noticed an instructor in a Jimmy stop over after seeing the B/O arguing on the side of the road and probably saved his ass.The B/O was instructed by the Supt( thats what he said his title was) to frequently read notices concerning his route.During the time the passengers were transferred to another bus.
Word to the wise , If ur ever stopped by an officer ,just say u werent aware of or that u violated some rule,law or whatever. Attitude will always get u messed with instead of an warning.
2. NYCTA 4600s scrap towed to NJ
3. NYCTA Bus # 5106 towed to Cummings in the BX (ZEREGA)
4. NYCTA Bus# 8955 and and 9562 on a Bus Move to Zerega (2, 8900's was seen being driven back to Queens )
First one was seeing an odd 40 foot double header on the H8 heading into Rhode Island Avenue. The first one was 9328 and the second was 4010. This route usually uses 30 footers, and not once to my knowledge I have seen a 40 footer on this route.
The second observation was seeing 8907 on the 42. Not the first time, saw 8909 on a midday run. Both 89s used to run from Northern, whether they are that remains to be seen.
And here is probably the observation of the day. The 32 now has something in common with the A12, F4,Y8 and J1. All have now had surburbans on them. Saw this oddity this morning on the 32 heading towards either Friendship Heights or Georgetown, and the bus of honor was 4407.
Right after that one I saw yet another bus with an identity problem and that was seeing 4292(rehab) with 2211 in its rear destination sign. This one was on the 13A.
I would have had PM observations if I had left at rush hour time, but I left at 8pm from Tyson's. At least I didn't have to deal with the traffic.
WMATA is now issuing free system maps
The bad news:
They have tons of really really really really really really really stupid mistakes on them.
Among the ones I found on the DC/MD version:
1. VRE apparently stops at all Brunswick Line stops in Montgomery County shown on the map except Silver Spring and Rockville
2. The Yellow Line stops at Van Dorn Street
3. Van Dorn Street is the last stop on the Blue and Yellow lines
4. The US Postal Training Academy is apparently in the middle of Bucks Branch Park and north of Democracy Boulevard
5. UDC no longer has a campus at Mount Vernon Square
Also, expect WMATA's funding to be cut as soon as Bob Barr sees that the stop on the Blue and Yellow Lines between Crystal City and Braddock Road is "National Airport".
There is also some more good news. It shows THE BUS's routes on the map but doesn't mention THE BUS by name. I guess the chimp will be upset. Look for flying feces on WMATA buses soon.
It's annoying, though, having to worry about another system's numbering system. When I'm planning routes for The Alternative, I generally use letters or a letter/number combo, but then there are those SEPTA letter routes, like rt L, H, etc, that could confuse passengers...sigh.
PG the bus is crazy with their middle of nowhere office...
What office? Doesn't one of their CAGVs double as their office?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Regards,
Kevin
Da Hui
Is it the Bus talkers from:
SEPTA?
NJT?
WMATA, and other DC systems?
MBTA?
LACMTA?
Since I am without a computer at home for another couple of days due to Verizon being a bunch of aholes and not coming out to the new apt. to hook people up and my time on the internet at work is extremely limited, I am using the computer in our apts. business center.
Its been fun catching up on what you guys have been doing lately. I have seen so many buses the past few weeks, its making my head spin!
Things are going great at the new place. The past two Fridays I've gone out with the senior transit planner to take pictures of potential bus stops and current ones to update our inventory. We all have to get together soon for a bus-a-thon again. I can tell you that at PRTC, we are going to rehab the RTS's to put to use on the new Linton Hall to WFC Metro that will begin in the Fall. Linton Hall is in Gainesville, just West of Manassas. The RTS's will stick around for a few more years.
Nice to hear the RTS's will stay around for a few more years. Are they going to do the rehab, or will it go to an outside firm, ala Blitz, or will they be done at WMATA.
Oh yea I will begin planning for the June bustrip, since the changes have happened at Corridor Transit and Howard Transit. Speaking of Howard Transit I got a chance to see one of their new SLFs. Hopefully they will stop buying those god awful luxury schoolbuses.
Sorry Howard Transit, the luxury schoolbuses are for kids.:P
Glad you made it back here:-). I figured you were probably very busy with the move and job. I hope Verizon doesn't do that to me when we move. They can be just as bad as Cable TV in regards to keeping appointments etc.
We'll all have to get together soon for a busfan trip.
I guess in other words they don't count ;)
Corridor Transit may not be connected to DC's transit web "per se", but they do connect to either WMATA bus or rail six days out of the week. So they do qualify as being part of DC's transit system. Loudoun County is another story all together. They don't connect to any of WMATA's metrorail stations, and up until last September didn't even connect to metrobus.
More details on my connection at the Plymouth Meeting Mall on the 95...
I couldn't help but smile and laugh (people at the stop probably thought I was crazy) as I saw 2070 drive down the PM mall driveway and pull into the bus bay signed as "95 PENN SQUARE".
Let me start off by telling you that this cutaway was built toi be a BUS. It was similar to Ride-On in the way that it had the same seats as the HellDorados, and had a HUGE front door! There is no driver door, but that meant that door controls, etc, could be placed to the left of the driver, just like the "big" buses. ALSO, there was even a WIND GUARD!
Can I say that this bus has the MOST legroom I've ever seen on a bus! I could lay down in my seat, and still SLIP OFF (for those who don't know, I'm like 6'2). I couldn't really see the wheelchair lift, I guess it was under the door, but I didn't see anything resembling anything of the sort. However, I did notice that the first two rows were handicap accessible, so I guess there was some sort of a lift.
The windows were BIG, but unfortunately, sealed. There's no rear window, but there also is no "SEPTA carpeting" on that wall. However, did I mention the lighting system? REAL LIGHTS, not cut and paste crap! Also, a pleasure to see was the announcement sign, JUST LIKE ON THE REAL BUSES! It also has the orbital sign thingy for the GPS system.
However, every good bus has some bad things. I have two major complaints about it:
1) The ride was rougher than I expected from a Freightliner Chassis. The Freightliner schoolbuses I've ridden seemed to have a smoother ride than this one - maybe because they were bigger? This bus rode like a Gillig Phantom (or, for those who don't know Gilligs, like a truck - very rocky).
2) Also, the back of the bus is the ugliest thing I've ever seen since the back of the Orion VIIs. The stripe is between the tail lights as with the New Flyers, but the taillights are kinda...I dunno, high....It's hard to describe, but it was hideous...I almost retched upon seeing it.
3) The stop request sign was the cheapest thing I've ever seen. It had a white backround and "Stop Requested" in the narrowest red font I've ever seen. At first glance I almost thought it was just stuck onto the wall of the bus. Oh, btw, THERE IS A STOP REQUEST SYSTEM, unlike that other cutaway. Same transit ding, too. Plus, unlike the Dorados, it had "cut and paste" fleet number sign (just printed on one sticker and put on the white wall in front)
All in all, I have to agree with Ray's quote: "This bus is f***ing awesome." This bus is certainly a CHAMPION, not a chumpion like those for PG THE BUS (and University of Hartford). I encourage everyone here to try and get a ride on these mini-buses (these are generally too good to be called a cutaway.)
However, now we have to see if these buses can stand the test of time. I remember the first time I rode a Ride-On HellDorado, they were very solid. The next year, they were horrid - I hope my Champions don't suffer the same fate (and then take over the Dorados on the 95 - ugh).
By the way, Plymouth Meeting Mall is a nice place to transitfan if you don't mind the headways. We get everything up here (except HEVs) if you wait long enough. Two of my depots (Frontier and Midvale) have the NEWEST buses in the fleet, as well as the oldest (Midvale and the DKs - you'd have to take the L to Chestnut Hill, though). IN YOUR FACE SOUTHERN - HAHA.
Neoplans or NABI's?
I wanted ride on a suburban run before there are no more Neos at Frontier.
WARNING: Beware of Frontier headways. On the weekends, expect hourly service (on sundays, no service generally after 6), as well as during midday weekdays. It's generally half hourly service in peak service times, though.
For my last trip I took a 47m to South Philly, and then another one back into Center City (Neos 3298 & 3408), then I took the 61 Express (Neo Screamer 3463) all the way into Ridge and Summit, Rode an Artic on the 9, and New Flyer on the R to 23rd and Venango, took the 56 (Neo 3041) to Erie- Torresdale and then took the 3 (Neo 3278) into Frankford.
Since I usually do CTD Routes, I want to do a Frontier route or the 123 so I can record the sound with out the interference of Stop-and-Go Traffic.
Once again, thanks for the info.
CTC = Corridor Transportation Corp., d/b/a Connect-a-Ride, operates primarily in the Laurel, Md. area, however does have routes connecting Laurel with Greenbelt Metro, College Park, and Glen Burnie via Arundel Mills. CTC also manages the Howard County transit system.
In fact, there are weekdays when I see nothing but ElDos and no new Champions; prior to this, when the ElDos were fairly new, the 92/133 always got stuck with virtually all Fords on this line while the (then) newer buses went out to either the Norristown or Lower Bucks routes.
On Saturdays, though, I do see more Champions than ElDos on the 92/133, so perhaps its a matter of completing training first. I hope that's the case...
It's odd to know that there is at least one cutaway run on the 97, though.
I just started seeing Champions on the 95 this week (I don't know what was going on last week, as I was out of town). There are now two runs that I know of that operate them. Did frontier have their "picks" or driver change last week, or are they just training new people on these buses? Are the breeze cutaways still around?
Isn't the 92/133 Frontier's only route to Chester county (I mean deep into chester county, not like Pheonixville on the 99). Also, what is the ridership like on that route? Maybe because of the low ridership, they want to attract more riders by showing off their new cutaway's? In addition to this, these seem stronger than their Ford counterparts anyway. The thing is though, I feel that the Dorados and the cutaways (Ford and Champion) are very interchangeable - I mean, a cutaway on the 97 I've only seen once, and knowing that the 97 had cutaways on it is interesting, especially since those Dorados can get packed in the rush hour. Also, I haven't seen any 40fters on the 95 since Sunday (for the strangest reason, 95 service on sundays operates with 40fters). Well, back to the interchangeability with the cutaways and Dorados, it makes me wonder why SEPTA just didnt' go exclusively 30ft and get rid of the cutaways completely? The Dorados have the same if not better turning radius than the cutaways. Does SEPTA hate El Dorado and their 30fters?
Personally, though, I like the Dorados more - they are much more fun to ride in my opinion, but their suspension is getting fairly bad, I think. They are so rickety - you can see this just by watching one on the street. I still love my Dorados, though, especially how they roar!
I wonder how long they will last.
Chuck Greene
I love riding Dorados because they are fast and loud, as well as bouncy (my favorite part of the 77 on a Dorado was at Cederbrook Plaza where it rocked like crazy - also on the 95, there is a bouncy Dorado part - I almost put my hands up as if I'm on some sort of rollercoaster if the driver is driving it fast enough). There is a good bit of rattling that I've noticed, particularly from the farebox machine.
In other news, I'm severely confused as to where you guys get off claiming that Chinabus is sooo fast. Depending when I leave in the morning, between 6:30 and 6:45 or when I leave work in the evening, anywhere from 3 to 5pm, it seems I hit a bunch of chinabuses which seem to move extremely slowly. I paced a few at no more than 70mph, most of the time they make fools out of themselves by being in the middle, or worse, the left lane and doing 65. So far the fastest I've seen a bus on the NJTP was a train of 4 tour buses doing 75 last week, they were from some Dave somethingorother Tours, and I think there was one Dyna, one VanHool and two MCIs in the line. Also, somebody needs to tell the Chinabus operators that the signs on the NJTP say "No Trucks AND Buses in the Left Lane," those morons seem to think they're driving their Camrys or something, it's inexcusable for them to drive in the left lane like they own the highway.
Finally, does anyone know if Academy bus runs a commuter run to South Jersey or Philly? Maybe Mount Laurel greyhound station? I passed 8833, a D4500 I think, today just north of the stopped chinabus. It had "Port Authority" on it's destination sign, and looked just like the buses I've seen them run on the NJT contract lines in North Jersey, adverts and all. I didn't get a good look at the right side, since this driver at least had the sense to stay in the middle lane, but I think it had the NJT-style front door, with the split leaves.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any answers you can provide and all in good fun Chinabuswhores :-).
*somebody needs to tell the Chinabus operators that the signs on the NJTP say "No Trucks AND Buses in the Left Lane," those morons seem to think they're driving their Camrys or something, it's inexcusable for them to drive in the left lane like they own the highway. *
Passing or cruising?
*I paced a few at no more than 70mph,*
Jersey let's you drive faster than 45 or 50?
On some sections of the Jersey Turnpike, the speed limit is 65mph.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Youth Pass
At least there's an agency that actually want people to ride. All I need now is a fake school ID.
http://www.entandallergy.com/locations/nyc/nyc.html
1-Develop his own service which it appears that he did
2-Pay the TA the cost to operate the Shuttle Bus. I know of at least one instance and possibly a 2nd where this has happened.
In Brooklyn the B-25 bus route operates via Front Street towards Furman Street because an office building's owner pays for the service.
IN Manhattan the M-20 was recently extended from Battery Park City to West Street/Battery Place with the cost being paid by a third party(I do not know if Battery Park Authority is the party) but i do know that the service change was not submitted for approval or information update in the monthly TA Committee meetings.
Many public transit agencies do have shuttle buses paid for by private companies.
Hope this helps
Thank You
BIG AL
Unless otherwise instructed, a good majority of terminal SLD's will book the departure time in real time; whereas the arrival time, if they do so, via recap. For the most part, a terminal SLD, when appearing to book an arriving bus, is actually matching his recap of runs with the corresponding arriving bus number. Not necessarily the arrival time (although that *may* also be the case). In cases where the bus stands away from the terminal SLD, the arrival time, when booked, will reflect the scheduled arrival time for that run.
A good example of this in Queens would be the Q46 standing "on the hill" before the turn onto Queens Blvd. No, not in passenger service at the time, but still standing away from the terminal SLD "waiting out the scheduled time". A better example would be the Q1 and Q88 standing at Jamaica Av and Springfield Blvd. The best example would be the Q88 standing on Queens Blvd out of sight and out of view of intening passengers, as well as the SLD.
Big Al, as an SLD can expand upon this issue. I am a Bus Operator, not an SLD.
Is this what you meant?
Acela
Acela
On July 4, 2001, I rode 9614 on the Q32.
And my favorites from FLA are the 9400's, but still don't compare to FP's 9100 series.
And why is this?
Acela
It goes in this order
1. 96'Novas
2. 98'Novas
3. 99'Novas
BIG AL
Seriously, I really don't care if Brooklyn sees. Most of the routes can't even use them anyway. And they definately can't outdo the service the RTS's handle in FP and JA.
That's why if Brooklyn finally gets artics, they will go to Flatbush First since they carry most of the heavy lines here in Brooklyn.
---
BTW, The artics can make any turn that an RTS can.
Acela
Although Artics can make most turn, trust me it will still fail on any FP route that goes through Ridgewood due to their size. Where can they they parked when they pick up passengers? How can cars gets around them? I would bet any amount of money that Artics would fail in Ridgewood.
B1-#7512-REMAN RTS
B64-#9235-NOVABUS
BIG AL
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Bx31 #1080
From my inspection this bus is coming down soon for delivery, just minus the farebox inside, radios and maybe some other things I may not be aware of.
Allen Dicion
Toronto, Canada
www.transithub.net
If it doesn't work, if afraid the server was shut for maintenance.
Allen Dicion
www.transithub.net
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Incognito
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Here's what I've listed today:
Metro New York Area Mega Bus Calendars 1996, 1997, 1998
Corgi GM Fishbowls, NYCTA green and MTA two-tone blue
Corgi MCI MC-8's custom painted Airport Service and Starline Tours
Road Champs Flxible Metros:
Las Vegas
SEPTA
San Francisco Muni custom paint
North San Diego County Transit District custom paint
American Precision Models GM TDH4510 Old Looks:
Chicago (special APM paint)
Cleveland (special APM paint)
North Olmstead (special APM paint)
New Jersey PSCT (APM special paint)
New York City Transit Authority (custom paint)
Southern California Rapid Transit District (custom paint)
-Road Champs NJ Transit Shoppe Flxible Metro
-Gillig Chrome License Plate Frame
-Micro Machines RTS Slopeback
-Santa Clara VTA 1997 Roadeo Patch
-AC Transit GM Fishbowl (29-footer) Magnet
-Various Transit-related Lapel Pins
I will have Orion promotional materials and a diecast Tomica Greyhound MC-8 on there soon. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
(eBay ID: flxible)
http://mta.info/nyct/service/bus/bussrvnobn.htm
A significant portion of Flushing Av appears to be turning into a one way street since it won't end until 1/2005.
Also, how is the service?
(All photos taken in the afternoon of April 8, 2004. Apologies for the poor lighting -- at least it wasn't raining.)
You mean the "secret rendezvous site"?
I'm not sure if i could handle getting on a bus with the message "GOOD MORNING" on it though, that's obnoxious.
Good paint jobs, it looks they used all the paint in the city on the buses(I don't see a drop of paint or striping on those roads!).
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
However, aside from school trippers, I would still not use artics. School trippers usually run artics on non-artic routes (i.e., the Bx28, 30, 31, etc.) (The real interesting thing though would be who would provide the artics--considering other garages do each other's trips in MaBSTOA.)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
If all of the artics at WF were not needed for the Bx19, the Bx36 may already be artic!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Well they do appear on the Bx15 and Bx36 from time to time and you have 1075-1109 so I don't know if 35 buses [before having spares and 'strays' onto other routes] could cover the 19 to be 100% Artic right now.
Sometime i saw Artics on Bx15, Bx31, Bx35, & Bx36 but they have least at 35 Artics @ West Farms Depot. Bx19 use RTS, Orion5, Orion7 CNG & most Artics, They use 24 buses in AM, 21 buses in Midday, & 29 buses in PM with 50 Runs in the Weekday.
If the Bx35 gets it then out of fairness the Bx11 should get it too
School riding alone is not enough; the route in question has to be very busy all day every day in order to be a candidate for articulated buses. None of the Riverdale corridor routes qualifies.
(Sigh) Let me restate and edit my earlier post....
"School riding alone is not enough, and operating 24/7 is not enough. The route in question has to be very very busy, all day every day in order to be a candidate for articulated buses. Again, none of the Riverdale corridor routes qualifies.
Ugh, why would the MTA want a 60 foot CNG low floor artic??? Just to see how low the gas mileage on a bus really can go? If Mr Hoskins says OCTA's D60LFs get 2 or so mpg, then it's a good bet that a CNG '60LF would get somewhere under 1 mpg, perhaps it'd be better to just measure in kilo-feet per gallon than miles.
They'd be much better off with a DE60LF, especially considering THAT already exsists and is being built. Also a hybrid drive system with EGR, Particulate traps and utilizing Low Sulfer Diesel will likely be cleaner than a CNG bus in terms of total emissions, as well as being more fuel efficient than a CNG. On the other hand a CNG bus only rids you of the Particulate matter that comes out the back, you're still pumping tons of greenhouse gasses out the tailpipe. Also a hybrid can burn the same diesel fuel that all the other buses burn, no need for new fueling facilities or anything.
However, IIRC the MTA found the Minnesota D60LF they borrowed last year unsatisfactory, and as such the point of C60LF vs DE60LF is likely moot.
BTW: Does anyone even operate a C60LF? Doesn't Neoplan make a low-floor CNG artic?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Secondly. Those routes DO NOT need articulateds, 1st off certain parts of the Riverdale portions of the Bx7 and 10 can not even fit articulateds. School Trippers does not warrant a hole line to be articulateds if that is the thinking also. and the 20?!!!
Yeah you got a lot to learn.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.info
But I like them better than buses anyway. :-P
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
San Francisco Muni route 38/38L Geary line
Sacramento Regional Transit route 51 Broadway-Stockton
AC Transit route 82/82L International(formerly E 14 st.)
Last time, you (I would use spammed, but it's on topic) inundated bustalk with lists of TA's with every freaking color steel wheels...
I am sorry if my posts offend you in some kinda way. But I posted those lists about a particular bus model once and will contiune to post west coast stuff on this message board.
You got a problem about me posting lists?
At least I posted those threads about a particular topic one time (not over and over and over....). I know the color of the steel wheels mean nothing, but are just decorations.
Later!
MetroBus Line 20/21/720 Rapid ( Wilshire Blvd )
Foothill Transit Line 480/481 ( former SCRTD Route ). Downtown LA- W. Covina-Pomona-Claremont-Montclair
OmniTrans # 14 - Foothill Blvd, 5th St Fontana-San Bernardino
Riverside Transit Agency # 1 ( Magnolia Ave ) Riverside-Corona
Long Beach Transit # 61/62/66 ZAP - Atlantic Avenue
Torrance Transit # 3 - Long Beach-Wilmington-Carson-Redondo Bch
Santa Monica Big Blue Bus # 7/Super 7-Pico Blvd
Montebello Bus Line # 40/341/342/343-Beverly Blvd, East 4th St, Los Angeles
These are some of them down here
HARTlines route 2 is the most popular and heavily used.
Lynx I can only guess, probably route 8, etc...
Red Line (All Weekday Trips)
#10 Roosevelt/Grant (Midday)
Green Line (Rush Hours)
#41 Indian School (Saturday)
#19 19th Avenue (Weekday Peak & Weekend All Day)
Miami-Dade Transit:
11-Flagler Street
S-Aventura/Miami Beach/Downtown Miami
38-Busway MAX (Limited stops route)
The above routes use the crappy Ikarus 436 artics.
Broward County Transit:
18-US 441 (this may be one of the few routes in the US that
serves 3 different counties, the 18 starts at the Golden Glades
Park-n-Ride in northern Miami-Dade County, then goes up
US 441 into Broward County, all the way across broward and
ends at Sandalfoot Cove in Boca Raton in southern Palm Beach
county)
At the beginning of this year, BCt started a limited version of the
18, and is considering that corridor for BRT.
SF Muni 38 Geary line uses exclusively 2001-2003 Neoplan AN460's with some 1991 New Flyer D60's, and sometimes stardard 40' Neoplan AN440's, NABI 416's, and New Flyer D40's.
Sacramento Regional Transit route 51 uses both stardard 40' CNG Orion V's and Orion VII's.
And AC Transit's route 82/82L uses stardard Gillig Phantoms, NABI 416's, VanHool A330's and articulated New Flyer D60's and VanHools
AG300's.
The next odd sighting was seeing 9496 on 15th Street in downtown DC. The 16Y and the 38B uses buses from Four Mile Run and 9496 runs from Arlington.
Also I rode 9448 on the 97 which is odd. The 97 only runs buses from Bladensburg and Northern and 9448 runs from Annex. I thought that bus was going to become an S51(for DC school kids only).
Next day - Got R-68 #2724 on the D to 59th Street. R-38 (forgot the car number) on the A to 34th Street (still love that 59th to 42nd express run). At 34th I got Nova RTS #9033 on the M34 to the Javits Center. After leaving Javits - Nova RTS #9196 had just pulled up on the M42 - so I rode it to PABT. I got R-68A #5029 on the W to 23rd Street. Those R-68As are looking really bad. At 23rd-Madison after watching endless TA MCI, Command, NYBS, Libery and NF Artics I suddenly remembered that many NYBS buses actually start picking up in Midtown during the PM rush. So - just as I'm about to ride the M1 up to abut 50th Street - one finally shows up. Yep - it was #1481. I was prepared to ride it on any of NYBS routes, but my favorite is Co-Op City. Suprise, suprise #1481 was about to do a Co-Op City trip. This ride made my two days. After that nice ride I got off at bay Plaza and caught '00 O5 #6110 on the Bx28. Fininshed the day with R-68 #2724 (again) on the D train and '03 NF artic #5712 on the Bx2.
It's always good to get home for some bus/railfanning, but it was also good to get back to the Flx Metros, Neo artics etc. of WMATA:-).
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Also saw a Neo artic being towed to Northern, couldn't get the number but looked like 531X.
At 34th I got Nova RTS #9033 on the M34 to the Javits Center
You were probably on 9034. 9033 is in my neck of the woods.
Great trip report!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I realized that right after I posted, but I cannot remember the number. I'm not even sure if it was 9034, but it was definitely one of the 90XX Novas.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Bus chair-lift nightmare
By WARREN WOODBERRY Jr.
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
A disabled Queens man catching a ride home on a Green Line bus was stuck on a busted wheelchair lift for more than four hours in the rain - and didn't even get an apology.
Jan Plattner, 48, a diabetic who is partially paralyzed, told the Daily News he came down with bronchitis after getting soaked in the Tuesday ordeal.
"I don't want to go near a Green Line bus after the other day," he said.
His misfortune began around 2 p.m. as he boarded the Q41 bus at 97th St. and Liberty Ave. to return to his South Ozone Park home from a trip to the pharmacy.
After the wheelchair got stuck in the motorized lift at the back door, the bus driver couldn't free him and called in a mechanic.
The mechanic couldn't fix it, so he summoned cops. The cops, also stymied by the breakdown, reached out to firefighters, Plattner said.
All the while, Plattner was exposed to the harsh weather.
Finally, around 6:30 p.m., long after the other passengers had abandoned the bus, Plattner's wheelchair was dismantled and he was freed.
But, he said, neither the driver nor the mechanic apologized. They just told him to wait for the next bus home.
Contacted by The News yesterday, a Green Line official extended the company's "sincere apologies for the inconvenience and discomfort this unfortunate incident may have caused."
Plattner said he has been stuck on Green Line lifts so often, he has a journal of breakdowns.
"I'm sure a lot more people are having the same problems that I am," he said.
In other words, he should have known the lift would be busted because of Green's reputation for not maintaining its city-owned buses.
Can we make this a soap opera? : - ) (The tentative title is As the Spleen Turns!)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Or for not running them either. ;)
Ironically enough, the only thing left in both photos is rather reflective of Queens' diversity. The 'Emigrant Savings Bank' sign.
Q53-#2814-TMC
David
URL: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/16/BAGTG65UVI1.DTL
If you're looking for a super-size used vehicle for those "haul-it- all" summer family road trips, check out the 39-seat-vans that Golden Gate Transit is hawking on EBay.
For a starting bid of only $1,000, shoppers at the Internet auction site are vying for the ultimate road hogs: Nine 40-foot diesel transit buses -- and these aren't just any buses, said transit agency spokesperson Mary Currie.
As a provider of "long-haul'' commuter service from San Francisco to Santa Rosa, the transit agency prides itself on operating "suburban coaches" that deliver "a smooth freeway ride,'' she said.
"We want customers to be as comfortable as they can be,'' Currie said. "So, our buses have high-back, slightly reclining seats that are cushioned and well upholstered, and they have reading lights and luggage racks. They're not your typical, barren, bare-bones plastic seating, inner-city Muni buses.''
But don't be blinded by these beauties' signature Golden Gate Transit white-and-green striped paint job, the red-gray interior, the "curtain destination signs'' -- or visions of blasting your buddies with the public address system on the way to the 49ers game.
These 14-year-old retired behemoths are being sold "as is'' -- "With all Faults," as the EBay listing warns.
You get zero cup holders, and these road warriors get a gas-guzzling 4.1 miles to the gallon. Some bus carriages and interiors have logged up to 720, 000 miles, while some engines and transmissions are a nearly new 118,414 miles.
"I don't know that they're really very family oriented,'' Currie acknowledged, saying most retired buses are sold to other transit or tour operators -- and those few, brave individuals who just had to own a bus.
The EBay auction terms and conditions stress that the buyer has to remove his or her new bus from the transit agency's San Rafael yard and "the buyer is responsible for any and all injury to the public, person(s), and property and for all loss or damage arising'' if you mash anything on the way out.
But, Currie said, given the agency's aggressive maintenance program, "Our buses have a very good reputation as being in very good shape. They're pretty easy to move.''
Just as regular folks have learned EBay is a great place to unload every attic-clogging doodad imaginable, government agencies are using online auctions to sell off everything from pocket knives and corkscrews seized from passengers by airport security to electronics taken in police raids.
When the agency test-marketed one of the aging buses last fall on EBay, it garnered nearly $6,000. That's about $600 more than the average $5,400 sales price that it got for 30 similar buses sold through the traditional sealed-bid method.
Four days into the 10-day bidding period Thursday, Bus No. 1110 had tallied 15 offers, and a high-bidder with the moniker "nemo2k4'' had pushed the price to $2,280. But Bus No. 1159 was still going for a song, at $1,125.
Like many California transit agencies combatting whopping budget deficits with layoffs, service cuts and possible fare increases, Golden Gate Transit is hungry to get a buck wherever it can.
"Now that we've learned the (online auction) system and saw the response that we got, it's easier for us and we can tell people who want to bid on our buses, 'Hey, it's on EBay,' '' Currie said, adding that selling on the Internet has slashed the overhead costs of sealed bids that tied up staff with time-consuming paper-shuffling.
"As your staff is less than it was in years past, you've got to finds ways to stretch everyone's time and make it more efficient,'' Currie said.
Golden Gate Transit plans to sell 40 more of the 1989 buses in "batches" on EBay as it deploys 80 new state-of-the-art, low-pollution buses to meet higher state clean-air standards. The new fleet, which boasts the latest exhaust filters and high-efficiency engines that burn low-sulfur diesel fuel, cost a total of $28.5 million, with the federal government picking up 81 percent of the tab.
A page on the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District's web site links to EBay: www.goldengate.org/contracts/contracts.html.
E-mail Alan Gathright at agathright@sfchronicle.com.
-F.
Is 2011 the first of the Pike Ride brand and 2022 the last? Or does the brand start and end outside of those units? Are there any known units within that range that are not branded?
Which Orion IIs (blah) are used on the U Street-Adams Morgan yt shuttle with appropriate decals?
Can anyone list any individual WMATA buses that have been removed from active service that still have fellow members (series-wise) in the active fleet (Metro-Bs that have been sold although Metro-Bs are still in the fleet, or Orion VIs that aren't running even though the VIs are still around)? What happened to buses that are no longer operating?
All this information, and more that will be requested later, will be used for my comprehensive bus-by-bus WMATA roster...a daunting task but most of the information it will cover is relatively concrete -- nothing like garage assignments that change multiple times a day...
Can I also receive a copy of this roster? My site needs a WMATA Roster makeover since it is way outdated...
Thanx,
Incognito
Don't you just love WhyMATA.
As you can see most of the buses that have stayed with their garage are with northern and the least amount with Bladnesburg. Well since Bladensburg got a almost fresh set of newer buses they don't count, so next in line is Southern, and Landover, then Montgomery.
I just went over some of the Flxibles. All of the 51 series Flxs have changed garages. Didn't go over the Orions or Ikarus.
Lastly I wouldn't be surprised to see Four Mile Run get some of Bladensburg's 23's and 24's. Hey this is WhyMATA.
Mark
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
FROM FEBRUARY 20, 1998
5001-5058: Callowhill
5059-5062: Frankford
5063-5068: Comly
5069: Frankford
5070-5133: Comly
5134: Victory
5135: Frontier
5136: Victory
5137: Frontier
5138: Comly
5139: Victory
5140-5141: Frontier
5142: Victory
5143: Frontier
5144: Victory
5145-5147: Frontier
5148-5150: Victory
5151: Frontier
5152-5153: Victory
5154-5197: Midvale
5198: Southern
5199-5213: Midvale
5214: Southern
5215-5236: Midvale
5237: Southern
5238-5256: Midvale
5257: Southern
5258-5295: Allegheny
5296-5325: Victory
5326-5329: Frontier
5330-5331: Comly
5332-5335: Frontier
5336-5364: Frankford
5365-5400: Southern
CURRENT AS OF APRIL 20, 2004 (Buses that have stayed at their same location throughout highlighted)
5001-5040: Callowhill
5041: Callowhill
5042-5058: Callowhill
5059-5062: Comly
5063: Comly
5064: Comly
5065-5068: Comly
5069: Comly
5070-5133: Comly (5099 was reportedly at Midvale briefly before returning to Comly)
5134: Victory
5135: Frontier
5136: Victory
5137: Frontier
5138: Midvale
5139: Victory
5140-5141: Frontier
5142: Victory
5143: Frontier
5144: Victory
5145-5147: Frontier
5148-5150: Victory
5151: Frontier
5152: Southern
5153-5154: Midvale
5156-5197: Midvale
5198: Southern
5199-5213: Midvale
5214: Southern
5215-5236: Midvale
5237: Southern
5238-5248: Midvale
5249: Frankford
5250-5256: Midvale
5257: Southern
5258-5266: Callowhill
5268-5278: Callowhill
5279-5292: Frankford
5293-5295: Comly
5296-5321: Victory
5322-5323: Frontier
5324: Victory
5325: Frontier
5326-5329: Frontier
5330-5331: Comly
5332-5335: Frontier
5336-5350: Frankford
5351-5364: Comly
5365-5374: Victory
5375-5400: Southern
As noted above, all but 88 of the 400 NABIs originally purchased by SEPTA are still at their original locations. I can't really speak about the Neoplans, though I doubt there are any Neos left at their original locations from the time they were delivered (though I could probably check some of my old rosters).
NOTES: 5198, 5214, 5237, and 5257 were originally at Midvale.
5138, 5330, and 5331 were originally at Frontier; the 1998 roster listed those buses as "loaned" to Comly, but that obviously is not the case.
5059-5062 and 5069 were originally at Comly but loaned to Frankford at the time of the 1998 roster; those buses returned to Comly by the end of 1998.
5041 and 5066 were briefly swapped between Callowhill and Comly in 2003 (for reasons that still make no sense to me at all).
The 5258-5295 series were moved from Allegheny in 2000 after the arrival of the Neoplan artics.
5321, 5322, and 5325 were moved in mid-2003 in exchange for ElDorados.
The 5351-5364 and 5365-5374 series buses were moved in 2002-03.
Would that ever happen
I know they have the LIRR
For several reasons
1-Why would the MTA have Long Island Bus compete with the Long Island Rail Road
2-The cost factor. It will be much more expensive by bus than by train
3-Time as noted before
4- Bus Capacity
I was a LIRR daily rider for 17 years. I speak from experience.
Thank You
Same reason as to why would Bee-Line/Liberty Lines compete with Metro-North Railroad with it's BxM4C and BxM3 bus routes.
Bee Lines is not MTA thats why.
I do not know if the NYCDOT covers the Weschester portion of the Liberty Lines BxM-3 costs. If its Bee Line again its not the MTA ands if its Liberty Lines or the NYCDOT again its not the MTA
Thank You
Arti
Right, but not in NY, as Barry was saying.
Arti
Arti
CG
Academy Bus competes with several NJCL stations; Suburban Transit competes with NEC stations Edison, New Brunswick, Princeton, Princeton Junction; DeCamp Bus Lines competes with Montclair Branch stations (Bloomfield, Glen Ridge, Bay Street, Watchung Avenue, Upper Montclair, Mountain Avenue, Montclair Heights) and a few Morristown Line stations (Brick Church, Orange); Community Bus Lines route 77 competes with M&E stations Morristown, Orange and Brick Church; Lakeland Bus Company (NJT Rail's most infamous competitor, since NJT had to pay them compensation for "unfair competition") competes against NJT M&E line at Millburn, Summit, Chatham, Madison, Convent Station, Morristown, Dover et al.
That's probably the most dramatic change I've ever seen in any transit service that took place over a course of a couple of years!
The LIRR, 7 train, and X51 are all MTA.
http://www.transportazumah.com/
Arti
Since it appears that the author of the post was also the operator of the service (based on the email address), I'll ask the question -- why was service suspended?
(I do drive along Dutch Broadway at that time of the morning a few times a month and never noticed the bus (or crowds of people waiting for it). Most of the bus crowds along Dutch Broadway are waiting along the south side of the street waiting for an N2 towards Jamaica.
CG
The ridership was approximately 10-15 people in the morning and 6-7 in the evening. I believe that changing the route, more publicity, and added service can do the trick. When reactivated, the route will have two branches. The first branch will continue to circulate in Elmont and Malverne, while the other branch will shoot straight down Hempstead Turnpike to the Coliseum area.
The extension to Jersey City was probably a good idea, as I suspect that the Manhattan traffic would have fallen off a bit once you could get free transfers from LIB to the subway.
With Malverne and Elmont being close enough to Jamaica to have those bus/subway transfers be rather painless, the Uniondale / East Meadow area might be the better option for an express bus service (presuming that one can find a reasonable routing -- Hempstead Tpk is a bit slow through Hempstead and Franklin Square in the AM, I think).
Increased service would seem to be the key to increasing ridership exponentially. Most commuters want options. Of course, the question of how much money one is willing to lose while developing that ridership base is always an issue.
Thanks again for your response, and best wishes.
CG
As for Hempstead, Greyhound already has that covered. If they wanted, Greyhound COULD bypass their Hempstead and Queens Village stops, maybe add one or 2 along the LIE, then another few in manhattan, and then from PABT, continue down to Brooklyn with stops in downtown.
In case you don't know, Greyhound operates out of Islip, I think exit 56 or 55, PABT and Washington DC. Stop list is: Islip(exit 55 or 56), Melville(exit 49), Hempstead Transit Center, Queens Village, PABT or GWBBT. GWBBT buses continue to Newark, Mt Laurel, then other stops to DC. Greyhound also has one friday and one sunday bus from Hempstead Transit Center to Springfield, Ma, stopping at Queens Village, New Rochelle, Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford, Springfield.
I really think though that Greyhound should run more PABT buses, and also have trips originating at Patchogue like Shortline. They'd make the shortline Lake KO stop(just north of the KO LIRR stop), then Islip, then the regular greyhound PABT route. Shortline buses currently run from Patchogue to Monticello
Another good idea would be for Adirondack Trailways to run some buses to PABT as well. They currently originate in Babylon and go to Albany, with LI stops at Massapequa, Freeport, Hempstead Transit Center, Mineola, and Queens Village.
Basically, here's a route list of some proposed service off the top of my head
Patchogue-Mac Arthur Airport-Lake KO-Islip-Melville-Jericho-Carl Place-Hempstead-Queens Village-Rego Park-midtown east-Broadway-PABT-some downtown stops-Brooklyn
Patchogue-Mac Arthur Airport-Lake KO-Islip-Melville-Jericho-Carl Place-Exit 36-some other stop-Rego Park-(see list of stops above from Rego Park)
Patchogue-Dowling College-Bay Shore Ferry-Babylon-Massapequa-Freeport-Hempstead-Mineola-Queens Village-(follow from first station list from Queens Village)
That might make some sense....I think....
BTW, anyone how heavily used the Greyhound LI runs are? I've only been on trailways from White Plains to Hempstead(some may remember that), and there were only 2 other people on the bus.
People's preferences seem to be one-seat rail first, two seat rail second, then one-seat bus. This is most evident from what has happened in New Jersey, where express bus ridership has fallen off the map whenever a direct line into Penn Station has been opened (first Midtown Direct and more recently the Montclair Connection). Similarly, very few areas in the 5 boros have direct subway access and express bus service. It's also worth noting that the NYC express busses don't go to a specific terminal, but offer many stops in Manhattan -- thus, they provide a one-seat ride for many of their customers.
LIRR, for all it's faults, still provides fast and reliable service. Service via the LIE into the Midtown Tunnel will not be as reliable -- and there isn't room for a dedicated bus lane (like you have into the Lincoln Tunnel in NJ) for most of the LIE.
The one place that you might get some ridership would be from the areas of Suffolk east of Ronkonkoma. However, the parking that LIRR has built at Ronkonkoma has already captured much of that market.
As to the ridership on Greyhound to PABT, I think it's mainly for riders connecting to other Greyhound services, with the very infrequent service it wouldn't make any sense for a commuter to rely on it. Ridership on the other LI routes is probably just moderate -- the people who run Greyhound/Trailways/ShortLine aren't idiots -- if there were demand for more service they'd run it. I often pass the bus that runs to Albany either in Queens Village or on the Clearview or I-95. It usually runs about 1/2 full from QV -- with about 5-10 people getting on there.
The only busses that are long-distance busses that are crowded onto LI are the Thursday/Friday/Sunday runs between LI and College towns (Binghamton, Albany, Ithaca, Springfield). In addition to the regularly scheduled services, many of the schools run charters themselves in order to handle the demand.
CG
Ron Bauman, president of Alert Coach, assigned his motley crew of OTR coaches (2 MCI 9's, a Buffalo Bus, a non air-conditioned Flx Suburban, a Prevost and a PD 4104). The route was extended to start at Exit 68.
It was a miserable failure for many reasons. Sometimes I was the only passenger. I think the failure happened because of the lack of a one seat ride into NYC and the lack of publicity.
Flushing has been part of NYC since 1898.
What was the exact routing of this run. Did it make any stops along the way?
Initially the bus left the depot in Amityville and went north to the WW Mall. Then south to the LIE west to Kissena Blvd or Main Street North to Roosevelt Ave (west) where passengers were discharged. They then turned around at Prince St. The 6AM WWM departure was expected back at 8AM to cover that run. The 7AM was expected back at 9AM.
Later the route was extended out to Exit 68. Then the routing was west on the LIE west from exit 68, stopping at several of the park & ride lots. The last P&R lot was at exit 49, then proceed north on 110 to WWM. On the eastbound trip, they exited the LIE at 49 south, proceeed along the service road to Pinelawn Road, north over expressway, west on service road into the P&R lot and then north on 110 to WWM
In Flushing the route was extened to Shea Stadium. The route was as above, heading west on Roosevelt Ave to Shea. It would then circle the Stadium, head east on Northern Blvd and turn south at Main St. IIRC, there was no formal routing so the drivers were free to improvise by getting off at Kissena, instead of Main Street. From WWM they could proceed south on 110 to LIE, or cut over to Old Walt Whitman Road to the LIE or turn on to Old Country Road West and pick up the LIE at Round Swamp.
The last stop in Suffolk County was the WWM and there were no stops in Nassau County and only Main St/Roosevelt and Shea in Queens.
In an attempt to stem the financial loss, mini-vans were substitued. Lesser service for the same money didn't cut it. I had heard that one of the van drivers would make a detour near Springfield/LIE to drop off a passenger at his job so that the guy wouldn't have to backtrack from Flushing. I don't belive there was ever any incidents with this arrangement, though it was definitely off route.
As has been mentioned, battling the traffic on the LIE didn't cut it. The only reason I took the bus was that I had business on the East Side of the city. Never knowing when I would be finished for the day made it hard to plan what LIRR train I would catch. Didn't want to wait 45 minutes for a PJ train. It was faster to go out to Flushing and get the bus, then to Penn and the train.
I think if they were to re-work this line with new stops and maybe better routing, get a bus lane on the LIE, and bring it to Manhattan(probably downtown), this thing would definately work as both intra-island and NYC bound transportation.
Unless you get everyone out of the "car mindset", I doubt anything will work. First you have to advertise the hell out of it, get subsidies in place and make sure the service is reliable. You still run into the vagaries of traffic jams on the LIE, unless you get an HOV lane all the way into the Mid-town tunnel and down the BQE to either the Willy B or the Manhattan Bridge. Also if you use the P&R lots, perhaps dedicating a certain number of spaces to the bus commuters so that they can find a spot in the AM.
Another thing to consider to potential passengers when the LIRR goes into GCT.
As for decent express bus service, there is Hampton Jitney, which beats up the Montauk Branch daily with superior frequency and one-seat service to Manhattan, and also Sunrise Coach Lines that holds its own against the Ronkonkoma/Greenport branch, on the "forks" of Long Island.
I think the N6 express and N22A are the closest things to express in Nassau County for commuter bus.
One good idea is to allow Queens People to board the 4:30 AM from Montauk in Queens for the Queens People to get to Midtown
Green
And which of the routes have the most riders?
Q10/10A
steve
JONN
-F.
Are buses at Queens Village being retrofitted to have their rear doors automatically? I've yet to see this anywhere else.
Of course this is also a bad thing; now you're going to have people who EXPECT the door to open on its own and will stand in front of the door for a minute waiting for it to open.
Acela
He opened them up at Union Turnpike, one of the stops for St John's, and at two other stops. Yesterday, the driver opened them up automatically only at 169 St.
Wonder why would they be using it now...since I've NEVER seen this happen ever since I began to use QV routes in October 2001...
Evidence of this practice can be seen at major stops along the route. In your case, St. Johns and 169th Street Station.
Whatever the reason, the driver has the ability to open the rear doors from the dash console. The only possible way the rear doors will open automatically is wheelchair system related. A defect, or the activation key-switch locked in the on position. All other rear-door operation is done manually; either by the driver or the passenger.
I wonder how long it will take for B/O's to realize that flooring the gas on an artic will not do much, and going *Tap*tap*tap*tap* (tap is the noise that the pedal on an artic makes when you floor it) on the gas does nothing, as the throttle on the D60's is computer controlled...
You hardly feel it in your own automobile, but a loaded bus is much different.
Chuck Greene
How is the A/C powered on a bus then? I'm surprised. Is there a difference on the roof mounted ones versus the ones in the rear possibly? How much power can their alternators handle?
I assume a roof mounted a/c is a little different, am i wrong?
Is it a GM Silversides without the silver on the sides ? And what's up with those funky whitewalls ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Mark
www.regionaltransitservice.com
They were reputed to be numbered in the 500 series, but I heard years ago that their width was 96". Is that true ?
Bill "Newkirk"
The number 96 is in the model number. That's probably for 96" width.
Bill "Newkirk"
Flxible model numbers, over the years, especially pre-1968, wre quite cryptic.
I logged on to the Ohio Museum of Transportation and checked their bus roster listing, but found no Grumman 870's or Metro Flxibles listed. Did I miss something ?
Bill "Newkirk"
You missed nothing.
"01/21/04 Updated several of the GM production lists. Updated a few of the link changes that have been sent in. Unfortunately had to pull down the Flxible production lists for the 870/Metro design temporarily due to some problems with accuracy from reloading the lists from an old backup copy. We hope to have them back up soon"
Phil Hom
All of the mentioned Buses are in Jamaica 8240 seen on the Q84 8245 on either the 4,5,or 85 and the others on the Q17. Hopefully QV gets their buses back.
Mark
Acela
Bx31 # 7674
800 - B61
802 - B61
914 - B67
939 - B75
1062 - M79
1077 - M23
1081 - BX36
4732 - B57
5036 - M4
5039 - M18
5046 - NIS Run Number 3
5047 - M10
5125 - M42
5235 - B25
5530 - M86
6035 - M7
6075 - M7
6077 - M7
7607 - B75
7638 - B75
8042 - Don't Know
8250 - M96
8284 - M10
8292 - M10
8488 - M72
8632 - M20
8635 - M42
8649 - Don't Know could not see
8651 - M42
8654 - M42
8659 - M42
More Later..............
Well the Bus Operator needs to have lunch doesn't he?
---
Sometimes in the middle of the run, the operator can 1)Get relieved by another operator 2)Operator Pulls back into the depot.
---
Sometimes a bus operator can keep his bus out his lunch brake as long as he gets an approval from the yard dispatcher.
Acela
MetroB
At Ride-On, a fairly good number of the weekend runs have at least one layover of more than 30 minutes. Some weekday runs also have layovers in excess of 30 minutes but there are very few of those, most of them occur after evening rush hour.
MetroB
Driver reports at 6:24 AM
Driver leaves garage at 6:39 AM, deadheads to start of first trip
Starting at 7:06 AM, he does 2.5 round trips on the 37, the last trip ends at 9:26 (layovers between trips range from 3 to 13 minutes)
After the last 37 ends, he deadheads to Shady Grove Station, where he takes his meal break (30 min break)
At 10:30, he starts driving again. He does a round trip on the 43, a round trip on the 90, a round trip on the 43, and a round trip on the 90. Layovers range from 5 to 20 minutes.
At 3:25, that last 90 trip ends at Shady Grove. At that time, the driver leaves to walk back to the garage (7 minutes walk) and clears. A new driver is there to meet the bus. He starts out with another round trip on the 43, then a trip on the 64, deadheads back to Shady Grove, trip on the 60, trip on the 64 back to Shady Grove, then has a 44 minute layover before doing a round trip on the 90. He gets to Shady Grove at 7:55 and has his meal break (about 35 min break)
After his break, he does another one way on the 64, then does 3 round trips on the 59, finishing at 1:27, then deadheads back to the garage, arrives at the garage at 1:41, and clears at 1:51 AM.
Most drivers pull in and out from the garage, but some ride with other drivers to meet their buses and get back to the garage. Some drivers have to walk (as seen above) and others have to ride the route 2 to get to their buses. A part of the union contract actually specifies the maximum number of trips a driver can do on a route in a row without a break, it varies by the length of the route though.
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?bustalk=109945
Please. Wait. Until. The. End. Of. The. Sentence. Before. Placing. A. Period.
MetroB
If you want to use the B-14 you would have to walk down to Snediker and Sutter Aves for the detour
Towards Utica Ave via Sutter,Snediker,Pitkin,Junius Street and regular at Sutter
Towards Linden Blvd/Elderts via Powell,Blake(I think but not 100%),Snediker,Sutter and regular
Thank You
Arthur
Foothill Transit will no longer accept MTA Tokens for base fare. Other fare media to be accepted is the Metro EZ Pass and the Metrocard or cash payment.
This brings up my next question. I saw a RTS on the Q38 running along Penelope Avenue on Wednesday (4/14) that had that same black painted "porkchop" as in the Queens Surface RTS's. Did Triboro ever get those same model RTS's as Queens Surface did (I've never seen those kinds of RTS buses anywhere else besides QUeens Surface)? Or did Queens Surface send one of their RTS's to Triboro, assuming the private lines actually swap buses (which I doubt)?
Thanks in advance.
Or did Queens Surface send one of their RTS's to Triboro, assuming the private lines actually swap buses (which I doubt)?
The Queens privates DO swap/transfer buses between eact other. Some of the GM's and TMC's have moved around between compaines. Example: 605 from GBL has brown seats, so it came from Jamaica Bus Lines.
Ray
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Mark
Ray
It's probably NYCDOT (which actually owns the buses) doing the swapping.
Ray
From what I've heard, the "methanols" aren't around and were reverted to diesel. Does anyone know when the conversion took place?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
The bus I just got off, #283, that Cummins L10G could barely move with the earlier standing load.
This N22 had about several standees, though its difficult to see in this photo
The bus stop was a busy place, look at all those people piling onto that N15 at the first bus stop.
CG
N24-Orion V-CNG-#324
N43-Orion V-CNG-#395
Run 5 on M14 starts, let's say, 615am and clears at 204pm. Now let's say the B/O, let's call him Paul, got an hour lunsh break at 1105. On that day the B/O took bus 8556 for the first half on his trip. Ok he gets relieved at 1105 by another B/O and goes on his lunch break.
At 1205, Paul's break ends and gets his turn to relieve a B/O, let's call him Bob, who had run 3. Bob's bus was 8550 and now he's gone off for his lunch break and gets replaced by Paul who finshes his day with his new bus 8550.
To sum up: Paul started his day with bus 8556, took a lunch break and then got bus 8550 to finish his run.
MetroB
My advice for you is to print out the answers if you have a bad memory, so you can stop asking the same questions over and over and over again.
Do you understand?
Stop asking this question or variants of it as well as other questions. My tolerance level is starting to get reached and my fuse is not nearly as short as some of the others around here. Feel free to desire to learn, I don't encourage you to shut up and go to hell the way some other people here do, but please be more presentable.
The diesel buses lining commercial Av were all turned on for some reason(do they use these?). Comming home, had 376 on the N22 Jamaica to Mineola(I was suprised to see this bus. I see it almost daily on the N23). At Mineola, got I think either 384, 385, or 386, on the N23 Manorhaven.
N22 was pretty crowded, with a few people having to stand. The N23 was pretty packed in as well, but still with a few seats open. It lightened up a bit til we got to the LIRR Port Washington stop, where it filled up again.
Does anyone have an extra copy --I am willing to buy it,,from you
Thanks
Steve
FDNY
Email me your address. I'll send you a copy of the NYCT DOB 2004 calendar.
However, I'll check the depot and see if we have any left lying around. If so, I'll tag this thread at that time and let you know.
Speaking of which, a relative of mine was kind enough to part an old 1997 edition of the Insider manual, including a sweet diagram of an RTS-06 series bus!
BTW- If it weren't for your posted address, I'd never have known who you are! Can't you guys use one handle!?!? Sheez.... LOL
And then I see 4681 pull into the express pick up area and once I get on, this bus was very HOT!! Nonetheless, I had a window seat so it was all good and this bus still moves well at 16-17 years old 8-). Had a bait of a back up on the Sheridan Expwy and people were getting angry at the fact that this shuttle operation happens so often but praised the express service, interesting logic eh. I sat down and headed back to 149 St and I get on 9087, climate control is good and it’s a good ride but slowed up a bit near the ramp and along the Major Deegan so I’m back at 149 & I chill out then head for the A shuttle. I take an R62 4 train via express to Fulton St then catch the A train to Rockaway Blvd and I get on 635 first, cool ride to B 98 and the train crowd was waiting for the next bus so I walk around the area for a bit and go back on 4938, a good ride back to Rockaway Blvd then I stop for a bite to eat and these people were arguing with the store manager over wrong orders and a ruckus :-\. Anyway I order my stuff then I take one more RT before calling it a day so I notice that 309 is just stuck at Rockaway Blvd and looks like it had problems.
I take 8391, a fast ride and to my surprise, I see 4878 for the first time in Jamaica with converted seats; along with recent newcomer 9273. Then this lady starts spitting then briefly vomits and sounds so loud that the bus became dead silent for a moment and it was just nasty. So I just take the next bus that comes, 5167 and head back to Rockaway Blvd, wait a couple of minutes for the A train to come, ride an R44 via express to Hoyt St where I take 8157 on the B41 LTD, had sluggish acceleration but wasn’t a bad ride until we get caught in traffic between Lincoln Rd and Church Av, losing some time but rebounded until I transfer to the B8 and finish my trip.
Some interesting observations
-All of the 126 buses I saw were Artics
-More MV buses than any other time I saw this GO
-When I came back to Brooklyn, I saw 9446 in service on the B41
-The last two windows of 5503 has moderate graffiti/tags
-Some of the 10/1100’s sound like they have new transmissions
-Add 8340 to the Flatbush fleet
I always seem to have fresh material and expecting the unexpected on my trips 8-)
The buses I saw on the 2/5 shuttle:
100: 5510,5512,5524,5541,5588,5594
126: 5611,5633,5637,5663,5668,5678
MV: 5025,5029,,5052,5173,8263,8758,8770,9620,9638,9650
WF: 1083,1103,1104,4841,8055,8089,8782,9135
KB: 5424,5434,5491,5492
GH: 5333,5335,5352,5359,5365,5370,5412
MCH: 213,214,215,251,253,6025,6028
ENY: 4543,8077,8904
UP: 9087,9311,9335,9341
JG: 593,597,602,607
FB: 8426,8435,9387,9426,9446
FP: 4681,8004,8559,9460
MJQ: 8980,8995,9000,9008,9016,9021,9025,9206
The buses I saw on the A shuttle. Enjoy:
QV: 4938,8361,88368,8369,8381,8394,8395,9250,9367,9380,9381
CS: 302,309,541,544,555,560,567,635,643,652,662,6138
JAM: 4878,5167,8952,9259,9273,9564
R40 4343 (Q)
R62 1430 (3)
NF Artic 1075 Bx19
NF Artic 1103 EXP SHUTTLE
O5 251 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 4681 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 9087 EXP SHUTTLE
R62 1408 (4)
R38 4043 (A)
O5 635 A SHUTTLE
RTS 4938 A SHUTTLE
RTS 8391 A SHUTTLE
RTS 5167 A SHUTTLE
R44 5269 (A)
RTS 8157 B41 LTD
NF 979 B8
A Houston bus driver has been charged with assault for allegedly attacking a passenger who wouldn't pay his fare.
Officials said driver Raglaro Davis hit him repeatedly with a removable door handle.
Bill "Newkirk"
On May 15th and 16th, Andrews Air Force Base will have its open house and again parking will be prohibited on base grounds. Parking will be at FED EX field with shuttle buses taking open house goers to the base and bring them back. Also shuttles will be provided at the Branch Avenue metro Station. Also the shuttles for AAFB dwarf the ones for the Redskins shuttle and if the weather is great, man buses will be filled to overflowing.
On May 29th, WMATA as well as the other local T/As(not sure if any out of town T/As will be helping also, but don't think I will-would love to see some out of town T/As buses) will be providing shuttle service for the dedication of the World War II Memorial on the mall. At least 400 buses will provice shuttle service from at least the Stadium Armory station(that one I know of) along with some other stations to and from the event.
DC in May should a big time place to bus watch, at least for me any way. I will have a great view of the AAFB shuttles, hopefully.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Also do not be surprised to see any Orion soft seat buses also Bronx bound
This is speculation on my part only.
Thank You
Thank You
David
Correct - Take That The B6 Is My Home Route i See @
Sorry =\
Latest news from the Coalition rumor mill: There might be a Coalition to Thank Chris for Increasing Route 37 Service established following the release of the new timetable.
You must be on drugs, a fare rollback...
After I left the Museum after about 2 hours, I managed to get on an Orion VII, [7600 series] on the B61. I still think low-floor buses are ugly, but they are growing on me. During the ride, when the bus got into Williamsburg, I noticed [while the bus was on Whyte Ave] in an industrial yard about a block away from Whyte Ave between Ross St and Division Ave, a group of ex-Cleveland PCC cars. I was kicking myself for not having a camera with me, but does anyone have any info on this?
I got on the 7 [at Queensboro Plaza] and rode to Grand Central, then walked from GC to PABT, taking in the atmosphere and the delicious weather. I got on the 159 bus hoping to ride one of the new Neoplan artics, but got a tired, old Flxible. Rode to Fairview Garage, got a good look at the new Neoplan [much different from the SEPTA/WMATA/BeeLine versions], then got on another old Flx back to NYC. The trip was horrible, it spent an inordinate amount of time inching down Bergenline Ave. What gives there? I actually spent double the time going south on Bergenline than going North. Got back to PABT then went for dinner. Rode the R to Jackson Heights, saw what the new terminal will look like [very impressive], then backtracked to Midtown on a soft-seated Orion 101 on the Q32. Made good time back to Manhattan but then hit a lot of traffic on 34 St.
I risked life and limb crossing 7th Ave to make the 9:03 ot of NYP, but the train died at Newark. It completely blew all of my planned connections at Trenton, then at Camden. We had to be crammed onto the next NEC train at Newark, and thanks to the overcrowding, the conductor never collected my ticket. On my next trip, all I have to buy is a one-way to NYC or Newark.
In conclusion, thanks to the RiverLINE, traveling to NYC was made way too easy and cheap, and continures to fuel my temptation to go to the City every weekend, but maybe this weekend, I'll try to break my habit, and maybe go across the Delaware into Philly for something other than work.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
From what a driver on the 92 once told me, they were unreliable and that's why they were rarely put into service.
MetroB
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
MetroB
Anyway I get on 215 and it was pretty slow at first but its good and the backseat was hot so it was a bit uncomfrotable but anyway we make a turn onto E 180 instead of Tremont Av but its all good. So then I was hoping that 588 would be running express but it didn't happen and then there were a few Artics assigned to the local so then I get on 5043 and as we leave, I see 2 C40's behind me [grr...] and the B/O is cool and we chat for a bit, displaying some humor to the whole bus and its a very good ride along the way back to 149. Then I take a walk along the Grand Concourse and managed to snap a few pics so I go to 138 St & walk back to 3 Av until the Bx33 arrives so I get on 251 and take the ride crosstown to Leonx then I take a 2 express to Atlantic Av then I take an R68A Q to my stop then I hop on the B8 and finish my trip.
The buses I saw:
100: 1002,1015,1025,5511,5565,5574
126: 5611,5626,5627,5633,5637,5668
KB: 5433,5434,5435,5457,5464,5476,5698,5700,8876
WF: 1086,1089,1095,1099,1103,8080,8801,9119
GH: 5261,5283,5323,5328,5358,5351,5383,5394,5401
MCH: 215,6001,6039,6050,6052,6054,6070
UP: 8693,9302,9336
FB: 5093,8435,9441,9449
FP: 4695
ENY: 4424,9035
JG: 588,808
MV: 5043,5125,5179,9510,9515,9517,9523,9529,9637
MJQ: 9004,9007,9021,9044,9189,9203,9217
NF 941 B8
R68 2856 (Q)
R142 1140 (4)
NF Artic 5565 EXP SHUTTLE
NF Artic 1089 EXP SHUTTLE
O5 215 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 5043 EXP SHUTTLE
R142 6941 (2)
R68A 5126 (Q)
NF 961 B8
I saw 5434 and 5435 4 times yesterday on the bruckner. I also saw 5555. I also 5386 running empty to the concourse.
Or the GM Futurliner.
The Orange County (CA) Sheriff Department, and the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department both got MCI 102D3's a couple years ago with no windows!! Just a flat pane along the sides where the windows are. I also think I've seen a State of California Department of Corrections 102D3 the same way recently.
Idea was so that nobody could see the jailbirds inside and the jailbirds inside couldn't figure out where they were being hauled to. Some of the jail facilities are way out in the sticks in outlying areas.
Yeah, I think that's what I said when I saw it, too.
Bet everyone looks at that sign!!!
I'd be shocked and surprised if that was real. If it is, I want to know the number of that bus!
It's real; bus # is 5123.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Chris
i meant shitty
Does anyone have NJT BUS maps?
-Chris
Robert
Newark-Essex County
Mercer County
Hudson County
South Jersey [Camden, Burlington, Gloucester]
Unfortunately, these maps are out of print, and completely usless because of the many changes over the years.
It would be nice if NJT would re-issue maps of their bus routes. It can be done on-line which would make it a lot easier.
MetroB
April 19, 2004
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has agreed to take over the financially troubled Queens and Brooklyn commuter bus lines in a deal to be announced today, sources familiar with the negotiations told Newsday.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. George Pataki, who have sparred over the fate of the lines for months, reached an agreement yesterday that will allow the MTA to assume operations by the summer, when franchise agreements with the city expire. The city now subsidizes the troubled private lines, which serves more than a quarter million riders daily.
Pataki and Bloomberg plan to appear today at a City Hall news conference to announce the deal.
The deal still requires state legislative approval. Leaders from the Assembly and Senate were briefed on the outlines of the deal in Albany yesterday.
A key to the agreement, said one official on condition of anonymity, was Bloomberg's decision to drop objections to the MTA board's planned $230 million purchase of 120 Metro-North rail cars. In February, the mayor blasted the authority for "showing more interest in improving life for suburban commuters" than in bailing out the failing bus lines.
That pressure tactic apparently worked, the official said. Jamie Van Bramer, a spokesman for four of the companies, declined comment last night pending a review of the details.
Bloomberg first proposed the takeover of the bus routes by the MTA from private firms in 2002 as a way of relieving the city of several hundred million dollars a year in payments it now must make to subsidize the service.
But the Pataki administration, which controls the transit agency, balked, citing its own fiscal burden. Now the state's operating deficit has become more serious than the city's.
Staff writer Dan Janison contributed to this story.
Bill "Newkirk"
That is without saying. the most likely sinario would be that current drivers would be segragated ala the current maboa drivers
Close enough ! I heard QSTOA will be the new moniker.
Bill "Newkirk"
The deal still requires state legislative approval. Leaders from the Assembly and Senate were briefed on the outlines of the deal in Albany yesterday.
Bloomberg first proposed the takeover of the bus routes by the MTA from private firms in 2002 as a way of relieving the city of several hundred million dollars a year in payments it now must make to subsidize the service.
But the Pataki administration, which controls the transit agency, balked, citing its own fiscal burden. Now the state's operating deficit has become more serious than the city's.
Its the state we really have to look at and they have the final say.
Agreed. A lot still has to happen here. There must be some sort of quid pro quo on the financing - I can't see the state offering to relieve the city of a $100 million burden without something in return. The article also fails to mention anything about the pension liability issue, which is huge, plus agreements must be reached with the unions.
JD
This makes perfect sense.
Cut out the duplicate senior management salaries
combine some routes
Fare will increase to $2 MTA base fare
Reduce costs through economies of scale
For instance command bus has a dedicated dispatcher that sits most of the day at kings highway B/q station on the B100
It's a win win for the city and the riding public
I wonder if the MTA has agreed to the Bronx privte lines also?
MAYOR MICHAEL R. BLOOMBERG, GOVERNOR GEORGE E. PATAKI AND MTA CHAIRMAN PETER KALIKOW ANNOUNCE MTA TAKEOVER OF PRIVATE BUSLINES
MTA Takeover will Improve Service for Almost 400,000 Riders in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Governor George E. Pataki and Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) Chairman Peter Kalikow today announced that the operation of seven private bus lines in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx will be transferred to the MTA by July 1, 2004. The MTA will assume all responsibility for the operation of the private lines. New York City will subsidize the MTA by financing the costs of operating the service beyond the revenue generated by State subsidies, fares and advertising. The transfer will ensure that the bus service is fully integrated with the transit service currently provided by the MTA and will result in a higher quality service and more efficient operations.
"The 390,000 residents of Co-op City, Canarsie, Middle Village, Rego Park and Forest Hills and the other neighborhoods that uses these buses deserve improved service and greater reliability," said Mayor Bloomberg. "For years they have stoically tolerated antiquated buses, and substandard and unreliable service. Nearly a third of the bus fleet is 17 years or older and many are not accessible for people with disabilities. Although, the City will continue to fully subsidize the bus service, it will get a better bang for its buck. New Yorkers will benefit from the efficiencies generated by this consolidation including the elimination of management and incentives fees paid to the private operators, reduced maintenance costs, insurance savings and the consolidation of fuel purchases."
"The MTA and the City have forged an important agreement to ensure better and more reliable bus service for commuters from Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx," Governor Pataki said. "Riders can look forward to improved service that will not keep people waiting at the curb, as well as 450 new, cleaner buses which will soon be added to the fleet. We will make sure that the transition is seamless so that commuters will not be inconvenienced while service is being transferred. I want to thank Mayor Bloomberg and Chairman Kalikow for working together to ensure that New York City riders get the transit service that they deserve."
"I want to thank Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg for their continued commitment to mass transportation," said MTA Chairman Peter S. Kalikow. "The MTA provides the best and most efficient transportation service in the country and we look forward to bringing that same quality service to more transit customers in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx."
The City will lease all its bus-related assets to the MTA including approximately 450 new buses that are currently being purchased and the two bus depots that are owned by the City. At the City's request, the MTA will propose an amendment to its 2000-2004 Capital Plan to set aside a $322.5 million reserve that will be funded from resources originally allocated to the LaGuardia Airport subway extension, but are no longer slated for that project. This reserve will be used for additional fleet replacement, facilities and other necessary capital improvements.
The MTA will assume all union employees and will honor existing collective bargaining agreements and collective bargaining obligations until new agreements are negotiated. To affect this, the parties plan to meet with the unions in the near future. To ensure a seamless transition of service between the MTA and the private operators, the City will also begin immediate efforts to negotiate agreements that address owners concerns quickly and fairly.
As part of this overall agreement, the City will support the MTA Capital Plan Amendments, including the accelerated purchase of new Metro North Railroad cars. In exchange, the MTA has agreed to address the Transit Authority's traditional Capital Plan funding in its next Capital Program.
"This historic agreement is extremely complex and I want to congratulate Governor George Pataki, MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow, Department of Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall, Budget Director Mark Page and the Director of the Mayor's Office of Operations, Susan Kupferman for their hard work in getting this done and their dedication to improving the transportation system for the citizens of New York," concluded Mayor Bloomberg.
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
I guess that answers the question of- Will Gun Hill ever take decent care of their buses? Noooooooooo!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
You mean the idle blinkers button (the red triangular one that indicates that the vehicle is sitting idle for a while)?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
You're thinking of the hazard signals, I guess.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Peace,
ANDEE
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
For now, operate them.
Da Hui
Why not Bx50? The QBx1 is mostly in the Bronx, with a few trips running to/from Queens only as an afterthought.
Q50 Flushing/Main St Sta
Q50 Pelham Bay
Q50 Co-Op City
Da Hui
An electronic destination sign reading is not an etched-in-stone commitment for all time. Signs can always be reprogrammed.
Bx25
Code Rte Destination
==== ==== ==============
3250 Bx25 CO-OP CITY
PELHAM BAY
LOOP
Q50 Co-Op City
Q50 Pelham Bay
Q50 Flushing/Main St Sta
Da Hui
David
David
http://www.wmata.com/about/MET_NEWS/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=376
The story also mentions new equipment being purchased and an entire fleet replacement in about 2 years or so.
MTA To Take Over Bus Lines
NYC To Keep Paying Operating Costs
Apr 19, 2004 8:44 pm US/Eastern
NEW YORK (AP) The Metropolitan Transportation Authority will assume control of seven private bus lines that carry 400,000 riders across the city each day, but commuters will be hit with a fare hike once the deal is completed this summer, officials announced Monday.
The franchise bus lines run locally in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx and offer express service to and from Manhattan.
Despite the MTA takeover, the city will continue to pay a $150 million annual operating cost for the foreseeable future to keep the lines running.
The Bloomberg administration had been trying for months to get the MTA to assume control of the lines and take over the city subsidy but failed to win that agreement.
Nevertheless, Mayor Michael Bloomberg proclaimed the deal a "victory" during a City Hall press conference that included Gov. George Pataki and MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow.
"This is a major victory for New Yorkers who ride these buses," Bloomberg said.
The switch takes place July 1, and standard fares on local routes will rise from $1.50 one way to $2. But once the systems are part of the MTA, riders will be able to take advantage of weekly and monthly MTA discounts they had not been entitled to before.
The express fare of $4 will remain the same.
The MTA "will provide at least the same service, hopefully better service," said Kalikow, whose agency is facing a projected $840 million budget deficit.
The agreement calls for the city to continue providing the $150 million annual operating subsidy to the franchise bus lines and to lease the buses and two bus depots currently owned by the city to the MTA. The seven companies have a total of 82 routes and about 1,300 buses.
The MTA agreed to propose an amendment to its current capital plan to set aside $323 million that will be used for fleet replacement and other upgrades. The amendment would need to be approved by the state Legislature.
The officials said one of the advantages of the takeover will be that commuters will get to ride in new buses, although the MTA has not committed to keeping the existing routes.
The city has already purchased 450 new buses, and Kalikow said the MTA will upgrade the fleet entirely in 18 to 24 months.
The MTA will also assume control of the employees of the bus companies.
Several of the bus lines have had significant economic problems during the past several years, and employees of three of the lines -- all in Queens -- went on strike for seven weeks in 2002, demanding better pay and benefits. The strike at Queens Surface Corp., Jamaica Buses Inc. and Triboro Coach Corp. stranded about 115,000 riders daily.
Officials at the bus companies did not return calls seeking comment Monday.
(© 2004 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. )
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
David
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
If they are buying 425 new buses, then I think most will be scrapped after the new buses arrive. Depending on age, maybe they'll keep the Orions since they're not that old.
As far as the NYBS Fishbowls go, they'll probably be instantly retired. They're not wheelchair friendly.
Bill "Newkirk"
Weekend service is going too?
David
I've also recently started getting in my last GMDD fishbowl rides. I'll be out there every chance I get now.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Fred
Based on what evidence exactly? None I'll bet. Ask any B/O who has experience of the Fishbowls/Blitzes and I doubt they'll tell you that they are over-rated.
I never said that the Fishbowls were better than RTSs. In some ways they probably are, some they aren't. However, for you to say that the Fishbowls are over-rated is wrong, plain and simple. The NYBS Fishies only run low miles as that is all that is required of them - I have no doubt that they would be quite capable of many more hours' use every day. As I said before, ask the people who know - B/Os and maintainers before making comments based solely on your own personal favorites.
Furthermore, you are again wrong in stating that they will become part of the MTA fleet. They wont, as has been stated several times before here. Search the archives and you will see this.
'let your nostalgia get the best of you, you're the type of person the seller needs'
Umm, based on what evidence or is this another of your ill-informed, type-before-I-think comments? Care to state exactly what you know about what kind of person I am? As it is, I have no intention whatsoever of buying one of these buses, nice as they are.
Well?
The Fishbowls in Toronto are a minority. And, also, they reside in a country where buses cannot be retired until they are 18. Now, first of all, most major operating authorities do not retire their buses at the minimum age. Especially cash strapped TAs like Toronto. Yes, they rebuilt the Fishbowls, however, do not think that all of them are running because they want them to. Toronto has stated those buses need to be replaced, but they don't have the funds to do so. Also, there are other buses with severe mechanical defects needing to be replaced. So, yeah, they'll let some of the oldies run instead of a potentially dangerous rustbucket. However, the Orion VIIs will put some of the most decrepid Fishbowls out of their misery.
>>>I never said that the Fishbowls were better than RTSs. In some ways they probably are, some they aren't. However, for you to say that the Fishbowls are over-rated is wrong, plain and simple.<<<
I never stated you said that. Take your own advice and think before you type. And how is it wrong for me to say they are overrated. Maybe, MAYBE, if I said they were flat out crap, I'd be wrong, but saying they are overrated is quite valid.
>>>As I said before, ask the people who know - B/Os and maintainers before making comments based solely on your own personal favorites.<<<
Actually, I have. They were pretty solid buses, cold all the time, pretty hard to steer, but semi reliable. And these were from the people that drove them. About the RTS they said it was like the Cadillac of buses. Easy to drive, slow but good on the highway, never flooded out, able to hold the road, and etc etc.
>>>Umm, based on what evidence or is this another of your ill-informed, type-before-I-think comments? Care to state exactly what you know about what kind of person I am? As it is, I have no intention whatsoever of buying one of these buses, nice as they are.<<<
Once again, take your own adivce. I never said YOU were going to buy one of the buses did I? I stated that the seller was looking for people like you, with a soft spot for Fishbowls so he could push off an overpriced, old piece of equipment.
LOL. Listen, I'm a Toronto bus driver, and if those fishbowls are a minority then I'm at a loss to explain why I keep getting one every single day. In actuality they make up about half the fleet.
>And, also, they reside in a country where buses cannot be retired until they are 18.
No that's not true, transit authorities in Canada may retire buses whenever they like. The reason why Toronto sets the 18 years standard is BECAUSE of the fishbowls. They want any new bus they buy to last AT LEAST as long as a fishbowl. So far none of them do, we're hoping for success with the Orion VII.
>Also, there are other buses with severe mechanical defects needing to be replaced. So, yeah, they'll let some of the oldies run instead of a potentially dangerous rustbucket. However, the Orion VIIs will put some of the most decrepid Fishbowls out of their misery.
No actually the Orion VII's are putting the D40-90's and the D901 Flyers out of their misery, and possibly even the '91 Orion V CNG's (though I hope not) and the Orion VI's (that's right, the 1998 Orion VI's). Yes the most decrepit fishbowls will be retired, but let me assure you that decrepit fishbowls are far and few between. The majority of Toronto fishbowls are in great shape and they continue to be the most reliable bus in our fleet. Furthermore, the main reason Toronto is considering their EVENTUAL retirement is because they'll soon be unable to find parts for them, otherwise they'd continue to rebuild them.
And as an operator who drives them every single day I can assure you they are not overrated, they deserve all the praise they're given.
And also know that the few RTS's we have here in Toronto are actually the most unreliable buses in the fleet, and are universally hated by all who drive them. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they get retired before the fishbowls too.
Just imagine, Train to Midtown, Fishbowl to City Island, Ferry to PW....that'd be a nice trip......
I wonder why they ended that ferry service?
Lack of customers?
It seems that there would be a good demand for it. An alternative to having to take the bridges.
It was a pax only ferry, no cars. If they re-opened the service with some carrying cars and trucks. It'll be a faster route for those trucks going to the industrial area in town, a much faster route.
If they want to make sense, they should leave it alone. However it is possible that they could add a stop at Rockaway Blvd and maybe a few others.
Perhaps an even wilder idea would be having the Q53 serve Jamaica bus terminal?
Not necessary.
Well one things for sure I better busfan these "private lines" before they become blue. QSC kept their equip in pretty good shape, but triboro,Green, and the others have "LI Bus - like maintanance".
Many times I rode the Q53 there was no a/c and I always saw breakdowns. Sound familiar?
The question is how long would it take for the MTA colors to appear on the DOT buses? As I said in another thread dealing with the possible takeover, when I see it I'll believe it. Now with non existent A/C, that is all too common but isn't limited to Triboro however I have never seen any breakdowns on the Q53, you must of had bad luck or something.
For Local Service Run Q21 From Queens Blvd/Woodhaven Blvd/59th Street
South To Rockaway Freeway then West to Beach 116th Street (S)
No it doesn't. Granted, the Q53, like any other bus line have had equipment failure, but on a regular basis-I haven't experienced that. The Q53 is the best thing Rockaway has and hopefully it will be left alone, with the exception of extending the last bus out of Woodside from 9:00pm to 11:00pm. I have heard about the horrible conditions of the TCC buses, but for some reason, it doesn't apply to the buses that run on the Q53. A lot of people used this bus as an alternative to the "A" train and the QM16 to get to Manhattan.
As a matter of fact, I just rode the Q53, round trip this weekend (as opposed to the train, bus, train crap the TA has been offering Rockaway riders on the weekends lately) and it was pure pleasure, especially looking out the window at jam-packed MTA shuttle buses.
Here are a couple of pictures from that ride:
Enjoy.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I've also noticed that during the last two summers, weekend service was provided entirely by Orion Vs. Before that, during the summer weekends, the Q53 ran everything TCC owned with the exception of the MCI Classics.
Da Hui
Green Lines' Classics are local buses.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
Cummins is a well-respected engine maker and makes good stuff. The M11s that got stuffed into 10 RTS buses are very fast.
Saw old versions of those in HARTline's flxibles and was curious. I like them.
David
any opinions would be cool to read
what would happen to the B100 would they restructure EITHER the B2 or B31 to merge with the B100 my choice is the 100 and 31 since the 2 serve the Plaza and that may be lost for mthe few riders who do use that service..
Lets say the TA went with your choice of the B31. Then what service would the folks in Gerritsen Beach who use the B31 have?
Da Hui
1) New route
2) Killing a route
3) Permanent change to a siginficant portion of the route
4) Route combinations
Now, the NYCDOT has 82 bus routes. The MTA must figure out what will stay and what will go. They will not do this one at a time. In addition, they will honor all union agreements for the time being. Therefore, there will be:
1) No route alterations: this may require renegotiating contracts.
2) No "efficiencies" except a single set of overhead.
3) Whatever the city pays for runs.
4) No new buses before 2005: buses require a six month lead time and several manufacturers are backlogged. Those 450 new buses will be alternate fuel models. Nothing else is known.
5) Widespread service cuts. Some of the private buses cannot be saved. The MTA does not have enough pieces to replace them and they aren't going to lease anything to do that. Expect the Transit Alliance's service cut program to be put in place.
6) Widespread moaning and groaning. This will be an extremely painful process on many sides. The Bronx riders are happy with their service and many of the senior guys over at NYBS are considering futures in the school bus division, resulting in possible driver shortages.
In addition, the private bus drivers will be the first Regional Bus division. They will be happy to keep their jobs and salary, but some already know that they will be Regionalized to the dismay of the two other divisions. The handling of the takeover may lead to strikes after September 2004 and serious union problems within TWU and ATU. I fear for TWU Local 100, who has both private and MTA drivers in the same union.
Buses will continue to break down even though they may be painted in MTA colors. Maintenance backlogs take time and some mechanics will have to be retrained. People will say that the MTA is no better than the privates because nothing will change except colors and names. The busfans will be pleased, but the passengers won't be all smiles. There is NOTHING the MTA can do about this.
7) Atlantic Express's X23 and X24 aren't involved in this process. Efforts will be made to get them involved, but the MTA needs to construct more storage space on Staten Island. They are overcapacity as is.
8) Garages are the key. If the MTA cannot secure all of the garages, it CANNOT operate the services. Based on NYCDOT's treatment of the Queens carriers, the Transit Alliance will have a SERIOUS case in blocking any condemnation of their facilities. I would be very worried about the Coopers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2474458512&category=6728
Very sad. I was hoping to ride one before they all left town. Does anyone know if they might still have a few in service?
-F.
It's so odd to me, though...it almost looks too young to be retired...
A nice bus, though!
Dave
On the bright side, I understand a local museum in Ohio has preserved a 1984 Flxible Metro from the SORTA fleet. Hopefully a museum in the Carolinas will follow suit, if there even is such interest there.
-F.
-Fred
Dave
-Fred
D.
-Fred
But as for 169 using Metro Flxible slider type windows combine with the traditional Grumman type that was pretty much common place there. The Flxibles never use any of thier parts. I guess they had surplus windows lay around or something but then again the A/C wasn't all that great on the Grummans.
Dave
-F.
-F.
On that note, has anyone been to Rocco's? How is the food, and is it really as crazy there as it looks in my living room?
-F.
There are also additional shuttle routes from Station C - Federal Circle that use the New Flyer low floors. I suspect that a good part of the fleet is also being kept for emergencies should AirTrain break down.
I personally never been to Rocco's, though I'd like to(that show is GREAT advertising), but as someone who's worked in a restaurant that size with close to that amount of people, plus with a boatload of foodservice/catering credits under my belt, I can attest that:
Yes, it's THAT crazy, maybe a little bit more. :)
My particular restaurant, I didn't have to do tastings or any special classes for my position, so my shift was never as long as theirs, but time does fly(and the stacks of ones jam the bank machines, no kidding).
And thanks, i was wondering the same question. Airtran AND a bus. What's LGA get???
-F.
What abut the Q53?
Will the Fishbowls retire?
What buses will be scrapped?
WHO KNOWS? We got at least ONE month before any of those questions would be answered. Also, let's wait until not only for this to be official BUT for it to actually happen. Why? Because as everybody here knows, anything can happen BEFORE this summer! So, let's chill with the questions because right now we can say things like:
The Q53 will be discontinued
The Fishbowls will go to Flatbush Depot
All the MCI Classics at QSC will be scrapped or sent to Jamaica Depot
Who knows for sure. If anything happens, let Q5Merrick, BIG AL, David and others tell us. I for one can't wait for the change over BUT April is almost over...so I think we can wait until at least June. Again, with the MTA...you never know, the deal could fall by next week or something.
Ray
The MTA will begin taking over operations of all private line bus services currently under the NYCDOT.
The first two franchise companies to be restructured under the MTA banner will be Queens Surface Corp and Command Lines.
These two will the first, beginning this July 1st, with one takeover every 6-months thereafter until all private bus franchises have been transferred to the MTA.
*NO* cross-agency interlining will begin at this time. *NO* changes in physical appearance will begin at this time. *NO* changes of route personnel will happen at this time.
The entity created will be similar to MaBSTOA - a non-civil-service entity under the MTA. All current employees will retain their titles, begin NYCT orientation, safety and awareness, and rules and regulatory training classes at the Zerega Facility in the Bronx, effective immediately.
I apologize for not posting this information sooner. I had been asked not to do so by my sources.
These two will the first, beginning this July 1st, with one takeover every 6-months thereafter until all private bus franchises have been transferred to the MTA.
Why these two first? Are there fewer issues with the garages?
From what I've seen, Green Bus is in the most dire need of MTA takeover and reorganization, followed by Triboro. Queens Surface appears to be the best run of the Queens operators.
JD
I thought that might be the case. I still would expect an uproar from the Green Bus riders, though - they won't care about the garage issue.
I've heard differently from other sources; I won't believe anything until July 2.
I agree - a lot has to happen between now and that date. I haven't seen anything in the news reports about the pension issue, and that could become a huge roadblock.
JD
In a nutshell, we've all come to the "I'll believe it when I see it" conclusion. Yet, the sources of information are too reliable to brush off as simple washroom gossip.
To those I've discussed the matter with via email, you're free to discuss the matter openly, with confidence that none of us will disclose (our personal) outside sources.
I'm certainly not doubting the validity off any sources or the seriousness of any talks, but there are still a number of issues that haven't been resolved. As far as I can tell, the only hurdle that's been cleared is the mayor agreeing to pay the MTA to take the buses and operate the routes.
To make things more interesting, according to the Times article on the takeover, Jerry Cooper refuses to sell and plans to try to stop the takeover. The Queens Surface garage doesn't have any extra capacity, and the TA depots in Queens certainly don't have room; I don't know what the situation at Command is. The buses have to go somewhere.
The Command facility can handle more buses if they parked in rolls and not slots like they are now.
I do not know how Queens Surfice parks their buses.
By the way the City can condem the depots of Green,Jamaia and Triboro via eminent domain
Thank You
So can Transit.
I can't figure out why they don't take over NYBS first since Arrigoni has wanted out for years and a source has told me that supposedly Gun Hill can handle the extra buses.
Just hope they don't junk the fishbowls but perhaps donate them to a bus museum.
2) 130 buses are going to be tough to squeeze into Gun Hill.
3) The as yet unnamedSTOA (or Division) probably won't even be allowed to share facilities with OA or TA on a permanent basis.
4) The Coopers may well force the MTA to shed weaker routes to squeeze it all in.
The TA takes over all the routes as of July 1st.
Changes will be made slowly but the only differnce is that on June 30th you will be riding a private bus line and on July 1st its a TA bus
Thank You
Takeover and restructuring are two different things. All of the lines will be MTA, but MTA fingerprints won't be on all of the routes for some time. In addition, Queens Surface and Command may see route restructuring and/or service cuts first.
2-It is not fair to the union workers of both the private lines and the TA. You are going to have a system pick every 6 months. Remember the DOT Company workers are going to lose their seniority within the TA and or OA. Bring them all in at once and let them maintain their seniority. If a Queens Surfice driver with 1 year on the job pick ahead of the last company taken over with 20 years on the job because the Queens Surfice worker became a TA worker first is that fair.
3-The labor union ia also a problem especially with Command since they are ATU while the Brooklyn Division is TWU. I believe what will happen is that the 2 ATU companies Green and Command union workers will end up working in one depot in Queens while the Brooklyn Division will operate the Command routes and the Queens Surfice,Triboro Coach,Liberty Lines Express, New York Bus Service and Jamica Bus Line drivers be placed in the OA at the bottom of the current list in order as when the joined their old private company.BTW I believe that the Jamaica Buses 4 local and express route will be placed in the TA Queens Division between Jamaica and Queens Village Depots
4-Expect a lot of depot changes to be made. As long as the total number of jobs remain the same it will be done.
Thats my opinion. By the way i do not work for NYC TRansit or the MTA
Thank You
Remember, this is a "takeover of management". There will be no outward changes, no outside picking of runs and no 'system pick' between the two entities. Everything will be as it is until all companies have been taken over. The current contracts will remain in force over the transition, with exception of those rules and regulations that violate NYCT specific standards.
This announcemnet came out of left field and i honestly thought the issue was dead when it was announced that the DOT will be buying new buses and will buy 50 retired TA buses for $7,000 each.
We all have to wait and see what will happen.
I do know for a fact that the DOB had a teneative takeover plan in work but nothing concrete.(I knew this since late last year)
There is still a lot of issues that will have to be ironed out
Thank You
Sometimes, a "golf buddy" who has nothing to do with transit can be an excellent source of information :-) Sometimes misinformation! What's the difference? An official announcement from the affected agencies. Until then, it's all speculation and washroom gossip.
I would think that Green Lines and Triboro Coach would be the first with the crappiest equipment around.
Bill "Newkirk"
Could it be the amount of money needed to replace the GM's, which are in horrid condition; for example? I'm pretty certain that costs and ownership issues are the reasons that they won't be taken over first but we shall see what really happens.
MetroB
MetroB
So maybe the subway shuttles will start getting a little more colorful, no?
I could see the Q53, Q21 bus lines elimated. They would be in direct competation with the current subway. Then again they might be retained or merged into another bus line. Depends on what the residents along the affected routes will say when the hearings come up start regarding the elimation of the routes.
I would assume that decals will be used, and that the MTA would make a big show of putting their logo on these buses immediately after the takeover. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few token MTA buses be assigned to these routes as well.
JD
There's no subway from Rego Park to Ozone Park, and there are plenty of existing NYCT bus routes that parallel subway lines. Routes probably would be modified to provide more sensible service.
Before the route could be discontinued, hearings have to be held. The Q9A and Q21 would definitely not survive, and the Q67 may not have that good a chance either. Better money would be saved through consolidation of some express and local routes. The B2 and B100 come to mind initially.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chances are, there will be route combinations like the Q45/47 for example and even possible eliminations. The Q53 should be kept however it may be modified to make more stops like at Rockaway Blvd but IMO should be left as is. As for the Q21, I see it being combined with the Q41, or even the Q53.
TA might keep the Q53 and the QM23 (?) from Brooklyn Manor running since both routes were formed to provide service due to the closing of the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch.
I don't know about the Q45 or the Q47 to say anything about them. The Q21 probably be taken over by the Q11 or the Q41. It all depends on how badly the customers at Broad Channel and Rockaway Park want it.
I guess it will all be mentioned when the hearings start.
I dount know too much about the B2/100 routes.
Expect the Q-53 and the Q-21 to be consolidated into one route. The main reason the routes duplicate each other except for a couple of blocks in Rockaway Park. It does not make sense to consoidate the Q-21 with the Q-11 or the Q-41 for any other reason.
Other possible consolidations include Triboro's Q-19 and Queens Surfice's Q-103.
New York Bus Service City Island Express service will be consolidated with the Pelham Bay route and possibly the Parkchester and Morris Park routes
Liberty Lines Express Riverdale/Wall Street service with the Riverdale/West Side Express.
Command Bus Starrett City and Canarsie Expresses
Queens Surfice Clearview and Bayside Express routes
What i think will happen will be extensive reroutes of existing lines to create more direct east/west and north/south service but that is way down the road.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
JD
Expect the Q-53 and the Q-21 to be consolidated into one route. The main reason the routes duplicate each other except for a couple of blocks in Rockaway Park. It does not make sense to consoidate the Q-21 with the Q-11 or the Q-41 for any other reason.
I don't think a Q11/Q21 combination would do any good since the 11 would become too long and have multiple southern terminals; 4 terminals would come as a result. If the Q21/53 were to be combined then the LTD service would have more added stops and I think riders would object to it but who knows what will happen.
What i think will happen will be extensive reroutes of existing lines to create more direct east/west and north/south service but that is way down the road.
Lets hope that there aren't more B82 type combos ;-). Seriously, chances are routes like the B100,Q19,19B,21,34,67,103 are prime candidates to be eliminated but it seems like they don't really do it nowadays so I will bet that those routes are serioulsly modified. I expect many combos and resturcturing too. Some of my ideas include the Q113 becoming a full time LTD with Q111's making all stops, the Q40 being extended along Queens Blvd to allow all Q60's to become a LTD [the con is that it will mimic Queens Blvd subway service but I think its worth it], combining the Q45/47, Q38*/72, Q38/Q65A and Q19B/29 for example. I had a idea for the Q37 but I have to get back to you on that.
*Q38 would be restrurctured to lose the 'annoying' loop by running on the current Q65A route while the Q72 is extended via the southern portion of the 38 to 62 Drive.
Command Bus Starrett City and Canarsie Expresses
Well, Starrett City is a part time run on the BM2 so it wouldn't necessarily be a combination. Now the BQM1 is the one that you may have to look at, unless that's where you come up with the possible combo of the BM2 and BQM1?!
On the B103, I say it would remain but I believe it will be modified.
On the Q53, I'd rather it stay the way it is but that will be in doubt and also subject to modification.
On the Q10A, I don't know how much riders it has but the hours should be expanded or depending on the exits on the Van Wyck, if there is a Rockaway Blvd exit then it should be its first stop after Kew Gardens. Could be a route in danger of the ax if it is lighly used.
NOTE: This is my opinion and assuimg that the takeover will occur.
1-What traffic generators will a revised route draw from to get ridership
2-What alternate transporation is available
3-Will a route change cause existing riders to leave the system
4-Is the proposed route cost effective
Changes have to be made that make sense. You just do not make changes for the sake of making change. Especially in Queens the private lines have operated mostly in one area for over 60 years with little interference from the other companies as well as the TA. Now that its going to be one system you have to make it attractive for people to use it.
In regards to a Q-21/Q-53 consolidation expect some trips to continue to operate as current especially on the weekends but you can see some trips adding a few stops from Liberty Avenue to 164th Avenue and then all stops from 164th Ave via Broad Channel to the Rockaways. I would not be surprised if you will see some short trips between Liberty Avenue and Beach 116th Street in peak rush periods
Thats my opinion
Thank You
JD
I guess those 425 new buses will replace all DOT's 1985/86 GMC RTS-04's and 1988/89 MCI Classics.
JD
That's Federal transportation money, so he can't use it for his city budget. If they don't buy buses with this money, it must be returned.
JD
Now this is on top of another 500+ (CNG and Hybrid) buses the MTA is ordering for themselves which includes 128 MORE Articulateds on top of the Option order that is set to come in the fall.
Basically over the next year or two the MTA Metro area will see close to or just over 1,000 brand new buses.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.info
Trevor, will those articulateds be low-floor? I thought NFI was done with high-floors after the TA's current order of D60HF's is delivered.
Jim D.
Da Hui
1-Storage is going to be a big problem. In the Bronx New York Bus Service will need his facility to operate his school bus fleet. The Liberty Lines Express depot is not even in the Bronx but in Yonkers.
Green Bus Lines,Triboro Coach and Jamaica Buses garages are privatley owned and are not part of the deal. The City or the MTA will either buy the depots they need or condem the property under eminent domain laws currently on the books. I speculate that the Green Line Rockaway Blvd facility will be the only one taken over. Triboro routes can operate out of the Queens Surfice facility in College Point
2-You may see some current TA reserve buses on the DOT routes as of July 1st.
3-Seniority and labor unions still have to be worked out. Remember that under the last contract the TA can be merged with MABSTOA. Also what happens with Command(ATU) in the Brooklyn Division which is TWU.
4-Runs will also have to be adjusted to comply with current TA/union rules.
I predict no real changes until the September pick
Thank You
The TA will most likely not buy it. Its too small.
Thank You
What MTA Fleet number classes are open?
Da Hui
Ray
Da Hui
2200s are in service as remanufactured buses, and they coexist peacefully with MCI Cruisers.
Da Hui
That should be enough for all of the buses MTA will now have. If possible I would try and keep existing numbers, but watch for each of the Privates to have their own blocks (i.e. 1100s+ = QSC, sub 1000 = Green, etc.)
I remember the TA renumbering the TDH 5309As 4800-4920 to 6401-6521 (or something close to that) back in the late '80s to make way for the 4600-4899 TMC buses.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Ray
But Stephen is too busy to upload that sound to his site.
Arthur
(no, not Hitler's birthday, no, not the anniversary of Columbine, c'mon...some of you know it....)
B1-#9088-NOVABUS
S79-#6310-Orion V
S78-#6299-Orion V(from Yukon-school trip-the S78 is a Castelton line)
S62-#6213-Orion V
S53-#6185-Orion V
Fortunately the injuries were not serious. From a picture on the website and on Channel 12, one of the buses involved was a Prevost H3-45 operated by Harran Coachways in the primarily red livery.
Now what about NYBS ? They're in the Bronx, would MaBSTOA absorb them ?
Bill "Newkirk"
April 19, 2004
For almost two years, TWU Local 100 has insisted that it is unfair to our riders and our members to leave the future of the City’s franchise bus lines in limbo, staggering from one six-month extension to the next while the Mayor, the Governor and the MTA privately discussed the fate of the private bus lines in New York City.
Our Union represents the men and women who drive and maintain five of the seven private lines companies. We have consistently stressed the need for stable funding for safe, stable bus service. We currently support Assemblywoman Cathy Nolan’s Bill for the MTA to take real responsibility for the franchise lines with a statutory commitment to funding levels.
The workers and their unions were not part of the negotiations that led up to today’s announced MTA takeover. It was presented as a done deal. We are not yet sure that it was a well done deal.
One outstanding concern is the apparent MTA insistence on coupling a takeover with its plans for “Regional Bus.” TWU Local 100, the largest transportation local union in the country, has not yet been convinced of the wisdom of Regional Bus for the riding public or for transit workers. We have instead seen possible service cuts throughout the Greater New York area. We all need a firm pledge to maintain and improve the level of service. The economy of the entire New York City metropolitan area needs more surface transit, not less. We do not have an excess of buses, but in fact a shortage.
Local 100 has not endorsed and does not currently support any legislation for a Regional Bus Company.
The fate of pension rights of thousands of active workers and retirees covered by existing plans at the private lines companies also hang in the balance. A takeover must not become an excuse to deprive anyone of full pension entitlement, whether by silence, by design or by negligence.
If the City and State have not been able to address these points satisfactorily, perhaps it is because of their failure until now to include in discussion the Unions representing thousands of private lines workers. This must now become the first order of business.
Local 100 will work to ensure that the interests of the riding public and of bus workers are not lost in the takeover rush.
Q19A > Q49
Q19B > Q69
Q20A > Q20
Q20B > Q70
Q22A > Q22*
Q10A > Q10**
Q9A > Q89
Q65A > Q95
QBx1 > Q50/Bx24
* The Q22A will be taken over by the Q22 as a Q22 "long run."
** The Q10A will be run as a Q10 Limited via Lefferts Boulevard as opposed to an express via the Van Wyck Expressway.
Then, the tedious task of renumbering the express routes:
BM1 > X33
BM2 > X34
BM3 > X35
BM4 > X36
BQM1 > X39
BxM1 > X46
BxM2 > X47
BxM3 > X48
BxM4A > X49
BxM4B > X50
BxM6 > X74
BxM7 > X75
BxM7A > X76
BxM10 > X77
BxM11 > X78
BxM18 > X79
QM1 > X52
QM1A > X53
QM2 > X54
QM2A > X55
QM3 > X56
QM4 > X57
QM10 > X60
QM11 > X61
QM12 > X62
QM15 > X65
QM16 > X66
QM17 > X67
QM18 > X69
QM21 > X70
QM22 > X71
QM23 > X72
QM24 > X73
Routes which will hava a limited service added to them:
Q6
Q7
Q8
Q10: Limited makes stops at Kew Gardens LIRR station, Jamaica Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, 101st Avenue, and Liberty Avenue, then runs via the Liberty Avenue and the Van Wyck Expressway to JFK
Q11
Q34: All Q34 buses run limited south of 41st Avenue
Q60: Q60 Local runs from Queens Plaza to Archer/Sutphin. Q60 Limited runs from Lincoln Center to 109 Av/157 St.
Q65
Q66: Buses terminating in Woodside run local. Buses terminating in Queensbridge run limited.
Q110
Q113: All Q113 buses run limited north of Brookville Boulevard & 147 Av, where it joins/leaves the route of the Q111.
The following intra-borough expresses will have stops added to them:
Q53: At Jamaica Avenue and Liberty Avenue
Ray
Looks suspiciously like the Civis Bus. Reminiscent of how GMC and Mack city buses resembled PCC cars.
On my visit to Niagara Falls almost 20 years ago - 1986 to be exact - I saw those busses!!!
I always wondered what they were. And I had a hard time trying to figure out how to describe them - two little busses attached to eachother.
I wonder if they are still up there?
By the way, I don't think those New Flyers that look like Orion4 and Civis look all that bad. They have a very sleek modern look to them. I doubt NYC will ever see them though. They look like they are high maintenance. Those fiberglass bodies won't last too long against our carnivorous traffic and the accidents that go along with it.
bad looking buses
-F.
New Flyer 150decibles CNG
I notice that both NABI and NFI, as well as Neoplan and Breda have all built "BRT" buses, and in all cases they are Artics. First off I strongly disagree the very idea of BRT, it gives up the primary motivation to run a bus route in the first place, that being the freedom from having to construct and maintain a ROW. However I even more strongly disagree with the purchasing of specialized vehicles for a BRT route (that is unless there is an obstruction that prevents the operation of conventional buses, like a tunnel in the case of Boston and Seattle, but that's a whole other issue). To me that makes absolutely no sense, and the 60-BRT buses for the LA Metrorapid line are a perfect example of such waste. I do not understand why they feel the need to buy bigger buses ONLY for the purposes of running them on the BRT route. If they need more capacity and intend to keep the vehicles on that one corridor why not go one step further, ask the feds for an extra billion or so and put in rails and truely serve the riders?
You answered your own question.
And second, BRT is a theory, where the only papers touting it is some line in Miami, which used to be rail, and not made from stratch!!, and a downtown loop in orlando.
And that's what you're selling us on? If BRT was widespread those two systems wouldn't count because they don't have anything in common with any present day applications. Neither built a giant route from nothing like what is proposed.
Give me a HOT lane with cheaper bus fares than tolls, a special bus lane on the highway, and signal premption and that's the closest you're going to get with a medium solution that isn't bad and is medium desirable. (traffic being least - faster rail row being most, hot lane/cheapo frequent bus in the middle).
That is if you dont mind the constant roar of the engine, some bumps, and rocking back and forth, especially in heavy winds. Remember a train glides!
I think what's going on with these BRT buses is that they're trying to make them look like fake trains. Fake trains to go with the, "looks like a train and rides like a train, but it's a bus" moniker. Even though...gimme a break.
The curving windshield allows NFI to make a bus with a vertically oriented windshield while still avoiding glare from the cabin at night. If the windshield was vertical and one flat plane the light from the passenger cabin would likely glare in the driver's eyes at night. Buses which use a flat panel window often have the driver's windshield tilted in so that glare is minimized, however it is an inefficient use of space if the windshield on the passenger's side is tilted in, so we end up with bus front ends like the Orion 5 through 7, the Gillig Phantom, and the Grumman 870 and it's progeny.
A flat panel window is likely cheaper to make than a curved panel window. However a curved window has advantages over a flat panel window outside the bus as well. With a flat panel window if the sun is in the right position to reflect into the eyes of an oncoming motorist, that driver is going to recieve the full brunt of the glare from a roughly 6 foot tall by 3-4 foot wide piece of automotive glass (or possibly polycarbonate, I'm not sure) all at once. However, in a similar situation with a curved, light is only reflected from a fraction of the surface area of the window at a given time, the window acts like a convex mirror to the sun.
Of course there are a few buses out there which have both a curved windshield and a indented driver's windshield. The O7 comes to mind, it was clearly designed to be a bus without the indented driver's windshield, but that feature was offered as an option. The HEV prototype toured the country with a very NFI-looking front end, yet so far I have yet to see an Orion 7 in service with a TA using the NFI-type front.
Of course I only looked at this from a lighting perspective, there are no doubt aerodynamic concerns as well. I'm sure that an indented window like Orion uses must act as an air dam and induce drag. Again here a curved windshield would seem to hold advantages, because the slope of the windshield changes as it moves out from the center, thus you can have an area where the air is confused at the center of the bus, and yet still have flow outward and upward at the sides and top. Buses like the NFIs, Neoplans and NABIs have a very minimal bump which would inhibit air trying to get past the bus to the top, however buses like the Orions, the Gilligs and the Flx Metros force the air to turn change direction as it trys to get around the bus. Assuming the air travels upward (meaning that this particular patch of air would be around the middle of the windshield in just to the driver's left of the center of the bus), the air be struck by the bus and rise along the indented windshield up to the area for the rollsign. Here is where the problem arises, the Destination sign cover has air of it's own coming down to try to fill in that gap, so it's unlikely that our patch of air being pushed upward from the middle of the windshield is going to be able to push forward (against the direction of travel) to cross in front of the destination sign. The only place this air has left to go is to the side, of course this 90 degree direction change requires an acceleration of a mass, which requires a force from the bus windshield, which means the bus is slowed down doubly by our patch of air that started in the center of the windshield, was accelerated upward toward the roof and then turned 90 degrees to the left when it hit the destination sign box. This also means that there's an inefficient flow of air over the top of the bus, air that strikes the bus a mere foot or two below the roofline may end up being accelerated twice where on a normally built bus it'd only be accelerated once on it's trip to the side or roof of the bus.
As for the Lights jeffy, that's likely to simplify the changing of bulbs, and NFI has done it that way for years, just like NABI and Neoplan have held onto their lighting styles, it's a brand thing.
That curved windshield does NOTHING to reduce glare.
In hours of darkness, on poorly lit streets, all you see it the flooring material in your face on the windshield, even with half the interior lights turned off.
Acela
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Argh, NYCTA...
I would assume that if there is takeover, the MTA would take over the franchise rights to the Manhattan express routes that Liberty Express operates, plus the buses that are owned by NYCDOT (and not Liberty itself). In other words, the MTA would probably not take over the company itself, because that company (or an affiliate) operates other services (e.g. Bee Line) that the MTA would not be taking over.
As part ofm the takeover the MTA would only get Liberty Lines express which is all of the MCI Classics. The Bee-Line routes (including the BxM4C) are all Westchester County operations.
If the new buses are meant to replace pre-1990 buses, it shouldn't affect express riders that much, as most express runs use buses newer than 1990 and this doesn't necessarily rule out the MTA purchasing MCI's for express service after the takeover. It's too early to tell how things will play out.
Da Hui
Really? Someone better tell Butch Seay (Senior VP-Buses for NYCT) that. I don't think he knows he's ordering any of those buses. In other words: SOURCE, PLEASE?
David
Just look at a Nova LFS ("Low Floor Series") for a general idea. (I find it reminiscent of something out of a bad sci-fi movie.)
Really? Someone better tell Butch Seay (Senior VP-Buses for NYCT) that. I don't think he knows he's ordering any of those buses. In other words: SOURCE, PLEASE?
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. First, the political reality is that Orion is going to be given every chance for a significant part of this order, unless they are so totally backlogged that they can't meet the delivery deadlines.
Second, Millenium is for all intents and purposes a brand-new company and to my knowledge has yet to build a single production bus. A manufacturing plant is not like a light switch - you don't just turn it on and start cranking out perfect high-quality buses. The MTA would be crazy the commit to Millenium until they are convinced that this manufacturer can build a bus that will stand up to the rugged conditions faced in New York City.
Jim D.
I am anxious to see what the bus will look like, however. If anyone has a photo, please post it.
This is also why it is too early to judge orion VII. If Orion can make a deent bus it is a win win for NYS.
Does Orion have any plans for a articulated model. They can draw upon thier coorporate brothers at DC which makes articulated buses in europe
Da Hui
Besides Butch should someone inform TA President Lawrence Reuter and MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow and Executive Director Katleen Lipp as well about this order
Thank You
So we must be getting used buses; BIA hasn't existed for almost ten years.
I thought they might be pigeon-powered buses (though the emissions would be really, really bad).
LMAO!
Yeah, those pigeon sounding engines would've been interesting
I also looked on the websites of Orion, New Flyer, and MCII, NYC Transit's approved bus manufacturers at the moment. None of them had anything about a recent order from either NYCDOT or NYCT. (I could not find a website for Millennium Transit Services, but I've already expressed doubts on this message board that NYCT would buy unproven low-floor RTSs from an unproven company.)
David
Is it possible they will be leasing additional MCI Coaches. I recall in 2001 when the x-21 and x-22 express buses were started in Staten Island the TA were able to acquire 20 buses very fast.
Thank You
BTW-I believe that all the MCI over the road coaches operated by the Transit Authority are leased and not owned by the TA
As to NYCT's MCIs being leased from the company, the capital program provided money to purchase the buses, so I doubt they're leased. I've heard that they ARE leased, but I think that information was posted HERE at various times by people who might not have had access to facts.
David
One thing about this merger is to expect anything to happen.
I believe that it was a Ulmer Park Driver who told me the MCI buses were leased.
One thing that we can agree is that Operations Planning is going to have a lot of work ahead of them
Good Luck
Thank You
I hope they start from zero and rethink the whole route system. You know how it is; if one person likes a route the way it is and you try to change, it the pols and the press are all over you. This may be a window of opportunity.
One thing I think they should do right away is play up the Q53 beach bus, in assocition with service returning to Coney Island. Is there a reason why that bus doesn't end at RIIS Park? Also, they should see if the Q35 could be allowed to get on the Belt Parkway and run to Brighton Beach Avenue on the B/Q, or even Stillwell Avenue. My guess is that would be a better ride than the slog up Flatbush to the IRt.
"Also, they should see if the Q35 could be allowed to get on the Belt Parkway and run to Brighton Beach Avenue on the B/Q, or even Stillwell Avenue. My guess is that would be a better ride than the slog up Flatbush to the IRt."
If you are already at the beach why would you take a bus to the roackaways?
What planet do you live on
Not to be mean or anything
A better option would be to send a few b41 to the roackaways eliminating the q35 which almost never comes.
David
The idea of running the bus to Stillwell is to provide a subway transfer for those who live west of the A and want to get to work in Manhattan or Downtown Brooklyn by transit.
If you believe what you read, there is widespread dissatisfaction with the A on the Rockaways, because it is such a long ride. Not for an occasional trip to the beach, but for a daily commute.
As a commuter enhancement it is an even worse idea. The belt crawls between flatbush ave and coney island. Plus If you would provide such a service the extended Q35 should connect with sheapshead bay station on the Q not brighton beach. Sheapshead bay station is right off the exit while brighton beach station is another 10 min with morning trafic
either way a bad idea
David
David
(NOTE: I said TRANSIT operator...please, everyone, don't tell me that Skyliner or somebody else runs Neoplans.)
David
Mark
Esp from College Point to Main St
& Jamaica to Queens Hospital/Goethals Avenue?
What alternative is there for riders when this route has no overlaps and is an important 24/7 link. Plus where are the commuter vans in this area of Queens. I don't see them.
The only waste is how Queens Surface floods the line with additional buses in order to make them "appear" more consistent in terms of headways. Maybe the MTA will split the route into two segments at Flushing and create a more efficient operation since currently if you wait at the Jamaica end up to 6 buses could bunch up at once. That usually creates up to a 1 hour gap in service and cabs aren't cheap.
Da Hui
If anything use the Q17 to get to Flushing from Jamaica center.
Do you really think the Private Co. Depot will be demolished?
I really don't see the DOT facilities being torn down.
David
Currently the b2 deadheads buses back to east 16th street station from kings plaza during the evening rush. It you continue this with additional buses or possibly a few artics the number of peak buses that will be needed will be reduced.
Lets hope thier integrates privates and reworks the routes to be most effecient (1 to 2 years at the earliest).
Some other cost savings would be to move the some command express runs to UP. UP is both closer and quicker to the begining of a few of the routes(5 min ride vs 20 min or more) a significant operational cost savings.
Thanks, in advance.
Here, see what number this SSN gets us and then get back to us: 243-73-2772
Robert
P.S. For any one who know about computer programing, I think i got it right, but it's been at lease 10years since i had to do conversion in school.
The dispatures jobs is made hearder by having them write up to 16 (0,1) on there sheets. If the disptures dose not get all the buses on line or put down the wrong number, they don't get paid, hence the TA save money.
It also heard on the driver as well to look for the bus in the yard, so expect to have buses missing since it will take a long time to find the right bus. The driver will have to find ther bus within 15mins or there jobs and pay gets cut, hence saving money.
The TA thinks by doing this it will save the money in the long run, by not have that many buses out on the raod there saving on fuel and mantence.
This will also have the TA dose not have to lay anyone off, since most drivers and disptares won't be able to do there jobs and they won't get paid for not doing it.
Robert
I am going to share some info about RT's New looks' fleet numbers.
When Sacramento Regional Transit was created back in 1973, RT started fleet numbering thier buses base on the number of passenger seats each bus had.
For example:
RT's 1973/75 40' Flxible new looks had 49 seats, so RT numberd them in
the 4900's.
RT's 1975 35' Flxible new looks had 41 seats, so RT numbered them in the 4100's.
RT's ex-Ac Transit 40' GM new looks had 51 seats, so RT's renumbered them in the 5100's.
RT's 1960-1968 35' GM new looks had
45 seats, so RT renumbered them in the 4500's
which were origially owned by Transit Authority of Sac(Predecessor of
Sacramento RT) and second-handed 35' GM's from several other TA's
RT's 1983 Gillig Phantoms had 47 seats, so RT numbered tham in the 4700's.
RT's 1985 Gillig phantoms also have the same and later were renumbered in the 8500's(don't know when).
And that is all
I found an earlier thread about discussion on WMATA bus fleet numbers and it got me thinking about what Sacramento RT employees told me on how RT use to number thier GM/Flxible New looks and earlier Gillig Phantoms so, I posted this thread about Sacramento RT bus fleet
numbering back in the 70's.
I found an earlier thread about discussion on WMATA bus fleet numbers and it got me thinking about what Sacramento RT employees told me on how RT use to number thier GM/Flxible New looks and earlier Gillig Phantoms so, I posted this thread about Sacramento RT bus fleet numbering back in the 70's.
On another note for DC busfans I will be taking the week off during week of May 23rd through 29th and on most likely Monday and Thursday I will be going up to Philly and Richmond to busfan. Anyone interested let me know.
Wes E. Samuels(the E stands for Enthusiastic about buses :P)
flxmtrD@msn.com
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Status subject to change without notice
Only problem, I'd potentially have to choose between the Ride-On Roadeo and this trip - hey, does Howard Transit accept the WMATA daypass?
I'll see if I can make it...
Acela
This is just an opinion......
Acela
Be easy!!! ;)
I was telling you that's not how things go :-D
Be easy!!! ;)
I'm very relaxed - If I wanted to flame off....I can ;-)
Acela
That is not necessary true. A dispatcher can reroute a bus as he sees fit. I recall a time in 1974 after the first buildings were opened in Starrett City and the only bus service was a Shuttle Bus from Rockaway Parkway Station to Starrett City and it did not even have a route number then. The shuttle was operated from East New York and only had one bus on the route period. Well one night the bus broke down and the dispatcher at Rockaway Parkway Station had a B-42 bus do the route. The driver was a friend of mine and he didn't even know how to get into Starrett City at that time. The passengers had to help him get there.
Thank You
Acela
How ironic it is to have a CNG bus on the B-51 is the reason the route was transferred to East New York from Gleason was that the NYPD did not want CNG buses on the Manhattan Bridge
Thank You
Acela
Thank You
Is the rule just for the Manhattan Bridge? New Flyers were covering the J shuttle over the Williamsburg Bridge last weekend.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
That doesn't mean anything - You're not supposed to take another bus from ANOTHER depot and put it on a line outside the original depot.
If it did happen, then it might have been something really major.
Acela
When I asked here what was going on, I was told that it does happen. An RTS on the M104 is better than nothing at all.
The CNG Buses aren't allowed on the Manhattan Bridge - Banned by NYPD, I haven't got any word back from JG, but I'll post back when I get information about the situation.
Are you sure the M104 wasn't a split depot operation?
Acela
Yes, I'm quite sure the M104 wasn't a split depot operation. I don't even have to trust the various rosters -- I live around the corner from the line (note my handle) and, between the date that Amsterdam went all-Orion to the date Amsterdam closed, I never saw anything but Orions on the M104 -- except for those two RTS sightings on one day a year or two ago.
I will really make this my business to find out because I can't see a driver from another depot driving a line they have no clue about.
Acela
Acela
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Have a nice day.
you see it, and run after it, waving your arms like crazy to catch the drivers attention....
I remember one time I ran across 4 parking lots to catch the SEPTA rt 100.
Chasing after buses is kinda fun every once in a while, though. Great excersize :)
Isn't CS predominantly RTS, though?
Casey Stengel
Number of Buses: 243*
NF "Viking": 3*
MCI: 11
Orion V: 229
* These figures have been corrected. If this is in error, then locate bus #997.
JAMAICA DEPOT
Number of Buses: 193
MCI: 29
RTS: 164
QUEENS VILLAGE DEPOT
Number of Buses: 241
MCI: 16
Orion V: 40
RTS: 185
New Flyer "Viking"
MCI:
RTS:
Orion 5 (So what if the one pictured is a CNG model. Just picture it without the hump on top and you have your basic O5):
...then you have those MCI's and NF Vikings on the X51...
Hey, you have a better chance of getting one of those (reasonably) comfortable seats at the stop in front of Redwood Deli (and good breakfast, too if you go inside).
Try eating a scrambled egg and bacon sandwich while standing up on a moving bus, while carrying the bag it came in and the box of juice that you'll be drinking with it!
They looked like Fishbowls, but had a weird windshield and a funny-looking rear end, like it was a simpleton's bus...
The buses today are faster, but they're slower, in a way...can u imainge that?
Have a nice day.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Da Hui
Da Hui
Any information is greatly apprieciated.Have a nice day!
Da Hui
How do you chase a bus? Do you run after it?
FUNNIEST POST OF THE DAY! Hey, you may not be an idiot after all.
Then again, I guess any of the three possibilities are still fair game at this point (11 y.o., idiot, or a troll). Nevertheless, whether the humor in your post was intentional or not, it was VERY FUNNY!
And what is this about an RTS articulated and a GMC "New Look" articulated?
What the hell?
any information is greatly appreciated.
you need to chill out!!!!
Just enjoy the buses , and calm down!!!
(They are getting rid of the Neoplan DK's in Philly with that whining first gear sound that I love).
Chuck Greene
Whoever called me a troll will hear it from me...
I just ask simple question and poeple call me troll?
Good morening
The other renumberings that day included:
B22 became Q24
B55 became Q55
B56 became Q56
B58 became Q58
B59 became Q59
Q3A became Q83
Q4A became Q84
Q12A became Q79
Q17A became Q30
Q44A became Q46
Q44FS became Q20
Q44VP became Q74
The former Q5A and Q5AB had already been combined into the Q85, and the M32 became Q32 in March 1989.
You are the old busfan who used to be here.
BIG AL
Like I said that is a SHUTTLE - Not an actual Bus Line runned daily. Most shuttles are always involving other depots.
A few months ago, I saw Ride-On Orion I 5543, a Silver Spring bus, doing a northbound trip on the 46, a Gaithersburg route. I have a feeling the passengers on that bus were very appreciative to have a bus at all, even if it wasn't a Gaithersburg bus with a Gaithersburg driver. A bus showed up and took them to where they wanted to go, that is what matters.
Da Hui
I'm telling you exactly what I know from the dispatchers. BIG AL - Can you please shed some light on the topic?
Acela
Jamaica buses turn up on the 20/44 pretty frequently.
Though I haven't seen it, I could see having a bus from the Q17 route do a round trip on the Q20/44.
What are these 800s New Flyers?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
See www.newflyer.com for more.
David
Says who?
Ride-On Orion VII CNG soundclip
Ride-On Orion V CNG soundclip
Da Hui
David
I took this today. Actually I was testing out the video mode, and there was five buses lined up, but hte light turned green before i could snap them leaving tis one behind. I had teh cam set at all the max settings.
What do you think? I'm not a photoshop master, i figured out some basic things, but is there more I need to do to these? Did i mess somethin up photoshopping? Or is this right? I feel like there's one thign missing from this.
All the buses have that Yield law sticker, I've been meaning to get a closeup....doesn't mean people yield. I let the bus in and the trucks switch lanes, but then again i'm competant.
If you got a truck on a straight road with his signal on, or after a toll plaza, going slow waiting for a slot to cut in, and all these cars are zooming around him causing a HUGE bottleneck after about a minute I always find myself cutting into his lane, making a gap, letting the truck in, and EVERYONE(all lanes) starts moving again. LOGIC people!!!
The buses here, even with terrible traffic, dont' seem to have a hard time merging or getting around the cars with the engines they got in those gilligs, it's really great. Plus the drivers got it down pat. But it's amazing the things you see riding them, I can't believe a few of these folks didn't get creamed!
Here's the one test video, I can't get anything else to upload still
I guess that's what happens when you live in a mostly bus only area, you become king of bus talk.
Extend the Q22 bus to Flatbush avenue station and discontinue the Q35.
What does one have to do with the other?
Wouldn't it make as much sense to extend the Q65A eastward, and have it pick up the 73rd Avenue leg of the Q75?
David
David
Arthur Thomas
You know how in the old west the covered wagons were known as "The Ship of the Plains?" I think the MTA should start calling its buses "The Ship of the City." Sounds a little more heroic and romantic than the usual image.
Da Hui
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Engine of a Dodge Ram?? (yes I know Dalmer Chrysler owns Orion)
Does it have a Hemi?
Mark
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
CDTA also operates some 35 foot NABI low-floor buses. I think they had a few Orion V's, but am less sure of that. Also, I recollect reading a post within the past month or two that indicated that there are still a few Orion I's around.
BIA/Orion I
BIA/Orion II
BIA/Orion V
OBI/Orion VI
NABI 35-LFW
Nova LFS
Incognito
Have a good day
BTW, What in the hell is a Nova LFS?
Are you sure the A/C wasn't working? Maybe it just wasn't on?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Nope. 5/26/01
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Studies show that absenteeism among bus drivers for reasons of sickness is significantly higher than in other comparable professional groups. Bus drivers who have to leave their jobs for medical reasons do so on average at a younger age than most comparable groups of employees.
The main health problems which they suffer relate to the back, tendons and joints, as well as mental disorders and cardiovascular diseases.
The task of a bus driver is mentally demanding because it involves having to cope with conflicting demands. The company and the public want the driver to maintain good contact with passengers and to be service-oriented, for example through the provision of information to passengers on timetables, routes, stops, fares, etc. However, the need to provide service to individual passengers often conflicts with the requirement to keep to a tight schedule in dense traffic. A further demand, which may conflict with the previous two, is the need to drive safely according to traffic regulations and conditions.
A bus driver’s cabin is subject to several constraints, and the seat often lacks sufficient adjustability. Moreover, it is becoming more and more common for transport personnel of all types to be subject to threats and violence from disorderly and troublesome passengers. Work schedules are another major source of stress. Bus drivers often have to work on shifts, and even on split shifts, while their days off may be irregular and may not coincide with those of their families.
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/stress/busdrver.htm
Access-A-Ride will feel the pain of Regional Bus, and the prelude known as consolidation. They want to give nothing, take as much as possible and let the chips fall where they may.
Are you among those out? What ATU local is that?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Were you out on Atlantic Ave in Bklyn on Thursday during the strike?
The funny thing is, I've seen more on-the-job injuries in the last 15-20 years than i did in my first ten years of driving buses (30 years total).
When I started, we had no power steering. We also had stick-shifts on some transit routes. We had a driver seat that went up-and-down three smallnotches, forward/backward three notches, and the back plate would tilt a couple notches. None of this fancy bullshit such as lumbar supports (which all-too-often quit working properly), seats that adjust every which way but loose, power steering that is harder than none at all.
And todays buses ride like shit compared to the GM fishbowls, old looks, and Flxibles. Nowadays you drive over apiece of paper in the road and your ass feels it.
I was looking in the Orion 05.501 builders database and it was true! Orion 05.501 #197 was delivered as #93097 back in April of 1993. Later it was renumbered to #197 but I knew I saw that bus on the Q76 on day. People have been telling me that there was NEVER a #93097...only went up to #93096. Check it out!!!
Ray
The Q-99 was discontinued due to low ridership
Thank You
Ray
However wouldn't this extension be a duplication of the bus that starts at QB and Union Tpke......Don't know the current route # but 30 years ago it was the Q 44-A
If a bus wants to turn around, it has to go through general parking or student parking. I would NOT want a bus with a 299' (or 286') wheelbase to make that turn! If a driver got in an accident with a student's car or truck, my campus would be livid!
The last time an MTA bus was on SJU property was summer 2001, on a day when the student lot was closed for the Inner City Games and QV RTS 9374 was there for reason I am unsure of.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Reason enough NOT to have NYCTA buses inside St John's.
If a bus wants to turn around, it has to go through general parking or student parking. I would NOT want a bus with a 299" (or 286") wheelbase to make that turn! If a driver got in an accident with a student's car or truck, my campus would be livid!
The last time an MTA bus was on SJU property was summer 2001, on a day when the student lot was closed for the Inner City Games and QV RTS 9374 was there for reason I am unsure of.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Thank You
Jonn
Thats my opinion
Thank You
Jonn
B133
Broadway Junction
Bergen St & Nostrand Avenue
WTF? Does any one have any info on this? Which depot will be operating this line?
Acela
It has nothing to do with a bus route
Thank You
I know that NYC Transit has no new bus routes being planned as of now.
Monday is the TA Committee Meeting and service adjustments will have to be submitted first
Thank You
Acela
And the Serie 60 engines for large buses(60' articulates and overthe road 45 footers)?
I'm not sure what the DD40 is for, but I know they are a standard option on transit buses such as Neoplan AN440s/AN435s and Orion Vs.
Dave
In the past three months, I've noticed y'all call NYCTA's bus yards
"depots", but out here in California, transit officials of large TA's call bus yards "divisions".
Anyways, who cares?
Yes, sometimes I do post questions or comments which may be stupid
or makes no sense.
BUT, If I want to share some info from other TA's other than NYC area,
I have the right to.
Now, how old do you think I am?
If there is only one depot in a division, that could be called a division. In Queens, there are three depots that comprise Queens Division - that part of the NYCTA Department of Buses. The NYCTA DOB is comprised of many divisions- buses, operations planning, managerial and so forth.
One oddity in the Queens Division is that each depot actually runs according to it's own guidelines. Without getting too technical, it's been said, each depot in Queens, where bus operator seniority is concerned, its considered it's "own division". Mainly because each Queens depot refrains from participating in a 'system pick'.
Short term: Anything can and will happen.
Intermediate term: Anything can and will happen.
Long term: Anything can and will happen.
There. Now let's all sit down, shut up, and watch the saga unfold.
Ray
The NABI 45CLFW
Comfortable Interior
Luxurious Driver's Area
It even has a navigation system.
Recessed ceiling
Isnt it Gorgeous?
Have a nice day :)
For Videos of this piece of Beauty in motion (inside and out), please click on :
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~ckder/NABI45CLFW/NABI45CLFW_CrabbsBranch.wmv
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~ckder/NABI45CLFW/NABI45CLFW_GBDepot.wmv
Who knows, we may even see some of these in Ride On colors one day ;-)
NYC needs isiot-proof and vandal-proof equipment. Anything more is a waste of money. Sadly.
Acela
Forgot to include this one.
As for this Viers Mill Road BRT, I honestly heard nothing about it until I read Ray's post. Does anyone here know anything more about it?
The NABI 45C-LFW CompoBus model, NABI's latest composite bodied model, features a single piece glass fiber reinforced composite body, manufactured with the SCRIMP technology developed and patented by the American TPI Composites Inc. The 45 foot long NABI 45C-LFW is unique on the US market in terms of its size, because the weight load per axle would exceed the acceptable level if it were built with a steel structure. An advantage of the CompoBus models, that due to their light weight their fuel consumption and thus their impact on the environment is considerably less than those of steel structured buses. The operation of these buses is generally more economical than that of steel structured ones, since due to their low weight the tire and break wear is also reduced. Additionally, the bodies of CompoBus models are entirely impervious to corrosion; therefore, the regular preventive maintenance against corrosion is unnecessary. The useful life of the composite bodied buses is remarkably longer than that of steel structured ones, and repairs of occasional structural damages to the composite bodies take a rather simple procedure. The CompoBus models were designed in anticipation of future technologies, thus they suitable to accomodate hybrid and fuel cell propulsion systems as soon as those become commercially available. The NABI 45C-LFW model is currently available with three different propulsion systems - diesel, compressed natural gas, and liquefied natural gas. The Group will deliver the first series of this model (56 LNG operated buses) in 2003 to the city of Phoenix. NABI has two further orders for this model from Tempe and Chicago.
Specifications
Length: 45 feet (13.7 meters)
Capacity: 48 steats
Powertrain: Cummins or Detroit Diesel engine
Allison or ZF with integral retarders, in T-drive arrangement
Steering: chassis mounted, integral power steering gearbox
Optional equipment: roof or rear mounted air-conditions
wheelchair ramp at the front or rear door (manual or mechanized)
http://www.nabi.hu/en/products_innovation/index_45C-LFW.php
----
View Pictures of this Model!
Acela
I was wondering how long it would take for some buses to finally get the rearview video monitors.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
It was here a few months back and allegingly they were testing that thing on Rapid Line 720. Of course the fans out here were worried about the kids tearing up the back. Thirty of these buses are suppose to come next month or in June. The rest will come later in the year. Most of them will be painted in the MetroRapid colors while some will be painted in the MetroLocal scheme and used on high capacity non-Rapid lines.
-Luminator GEM destination signs
-Series 50 / Allison B500R
-TV Monitor looks outside the bus. If u look closely at the first picture, you will see the first exterior camera. The second is mounted on the a/c grill panel
glid4500@earthlink.net
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Mark
Its a fast ride along the parkway and 5 Av its a very good ride then we have stupid car drivers near Times Sq and we get off at the last stop, 34 St, take some pics at 32 St then walk over to take the W train south to 23 St, walk over to Madison Av with the intent on riding a Fishbowl from NYBS so we snap up some more pics, even saw a Classic on the QM21. Then we see that there were some problems on the W/C lift of 1708 but then it was working again and a couple of Bee Line MCI's, Command buses, MTA MCI's and M23's pass by then next thing we know we see a Fishbowl on the Morris Park branch so we walk over ot the bus stop then we get on 1485 and this is my first ride on a Fishbowl in 10 years! It was so cool and brought back memories of when I rode the Blitzes when I younger, it was sweet indeed.
So its a little sluggish along Madison Av but once we went down 3 Av it was much better and a good ride along the Triborough and Bruckner but there was pretty heavy traffic on the expressway but on the Sheridan it was pretty empty and it was a mellow ride along Morris Park and Eastchester Rd until we reach the last stop at Boston Rd so if this is my last ride on a Fishbowl [may or may not be], I enjoyed it. So we take a 'dinner' break at Burger King, eat then we just missed the BX30 so the next one was coming in 20 minutes so we said forget that shit we're taking the 31 which was coming.
We thought about taking the #60 on Bee Line but didn't feel like paying the $2 [w/trasnfer] :-P So just before the 31 came, we saw 7659 going in the opposite direction on the Bx31 then we hop on 410 and take a ride to Westchester Sq then we hop on the 6 train and 4 out of 5 cars in the 5 car set [7606-7610] smelled so bad that it overpowered the cold A/C and 'fresh air' and this was due to a homeless guy. So people got angry and had to hold their noses when it started to creep into our car then I stay on until 14 St when me & Ozzy parted ways so I get on the 4 then I just catch the B and finish my trip.
Some notes:
-Saw 5701 on the Bx9 and the destination sign is broken.
-159 & 161 are in CS now
-Saw quite a few Neos on Bee Line #60/61
-Spotted about 5-6 Fishbowls running
NF 922 B8
R40 4235 (B)
R32 3376 (A)
R62A 2314 (1)
R62A 2315 (9)
RTS 8823 Bx7
LL Classic 3072 BxM2
R40 4419 (W)
NYBS Fishbowl 1485 BxM10
O5 410 Bx31
R142A 7609 (6)
R142 1102 (4)
R40M 4514 (B)
Bx31 #417
Bx31 # 6108
At least you had a/c. None of the LI Buses I were on had a/c, and two of them most of the windows were locked! And some sweaty smelly guy sits down and stinks up the whole back of the bus on the N22! I was trying to get the damn windows open with my allen screw but no luck! Felt like pulling the damn red lever on the window to get some air in there!
http://transit.schuminweb.com/
Check it out... lots of transit photos of both rail and bus. Most of it is from Washington DC, but I also have a few New York pictures (I've still never been there!), some Pittsburgh photos, and what I believe are the first enthusiast photos of Harrisonburg, Virginia transit.
So check it out... let me know what you think.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
P.S. I realize that BusTalk has probably never heard of me, but I am a somewhat regular poster on SubTalk.
http://www.transitgallery.com/showpic.php?uuid=44&aid=248&pid=10019
Da Hui
Robert
Da Hui
Da Hui
How far away do you have to be from an object to use it? Line of sight since it's laser?
BIG AL
Da Hui
Robert
It makes no sense to run 100% artics on a route at all times. In fact it is a waste of vaulable resources
Thank You
David
BIG AL
BIG AL
Or
Will they just move everything into the new depot and do something
else with the old one?
BIG AL
Da Hui
Robert
MetroB
BIG AL
BIG AL
enjoy!
Arthur Thomas
Thank You
1-Lets come up with proposed consolidations and new routes that should be made.
2-Lets come up with depot assignments for all DOB buses once the consolidation takes place.
I propose that a panel of five Bus Talkers be the judge of these changes.
If you are interested please e mail me at BarryLv11510@Yahoo.com
Thank You
Let's not. Discussions of depot assignments and route structures are grossly premature and purely academic.
Anybody who keeps track of NYCT (or reads posts from "David" or me) knows the Three Rules of Transit:
1. Anything can happen.
2. Anything will happen.
3. Nothing is set in stone, even after it happens.
Now it's time to sit back and watch the live-action version of Weird Al Yankovic's Another One Rides The Bus.
Please, everyone, chill the f*** out and wait and see what unfolds in the coming weeks.
I, along with a few other unnamed BusTalkers, have a very intimate interest in this issue. Right now, we know as much as you all do. Just be patient, I know its exciting, but just be cool.
Mark
Da Hui
People get on the bus - pay their fare and ride....Clear enough?
Acela
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
What size buses are they using for those runs, and what are the hours of the route?
Looks like a good BRT bus!
First time i've seen one of htose outside of their website.
Wonder why I dont' see more....or BRT!
I wouldnt' be surprised if cruise companies did own them either.
Da Hui
I ask because I've seen lots of B/Os do this on NYCT's D60HF's (haven't been on a 2003 one yet), but today, I encountered a bus operator who was constantly tapping the pedal between 4 and 18 times per "tapping fit".
Brooklyn67 once stated that the Accelerator pedal on a RTS controls an air valve, which controlls the engine's throttle. Now, since the RTS has a more mechanically controlled throttle, does rapidly and repeatedly flooring the accelerator produce additional acceleration?
I'm trying to figure out the origins of "pedal tapping", and whether or not B/O's know that flooring the pedal on a D60Hf will do nothing because the bus' computers will simply ignore you and continue to shift normally.
Sounds like it would create burst of air instead of a constant flow. Not sure if that means quicker accel, or just the impatient feeling of doing something that feels like it. Picturing some machinery, it sounds like every burst you get higher rpm's, you keep this up and the thing spins faster and faster. Like a cranktoy or crankcase. Not sure what to compare it too, spinning top? Push it once, it spins, push it while it's spinning it spins faster. Wait too long to push it again and it slows down. That would be my theory if no one else has one or an answer.
With the air throttles (such as on early RTS's) giving the pedal that extra tap would force just a tad more air into the slave cylinder opening the fuel injector rack, thus giving that slightly enhanced acceleration. However, if one had a bus with the slightest leak in the air throttle system in the back end, it didn't do anything.
Tapping the pedals on electronic throttles does NOT do anything. Believe me, I've driven buses with electronic throttles for over ten years now...and thirty years with cable throttles, air throttles, etc.
Da Hui
Stuipd unions!
Why? because the first day of the strike, during his short commute, he felt there was no difference in TRAFFIC. like that even matters completely!
Me? I wish I had an easy bus commute back the last week. comfy seat, ac, and read the paper, but no.
what most of you people on this board dont know is that Greyhound ALMOST went on strike last month. Its not the best contract in the world, but at least Im working for another 3 years.
They have few night owl routes, for instance Route #5 is the one of few.
Taken @ Spring & Temple in Downtown L.A.
© 2004. Eddie A. Photo http://labusfan.net
Taken at Long Beach Blvd & 7th Street
© 2004. Eddie A photo http://labusfan.net
More pictures can be found at http://labusfan.net
eddie a
© 2004. Eddie A Photo. http://labusfan.net
The PD4501 still looks sharp, almost like its ready to roll out for a run.
In fact, most of GLIs historic buses are stored here in L.A. The MC7, MC9, and about 3 others are there. These buses were out for a few weeks because the mechanics were getting them ready for some kind of a movie shoot.
Acela
David
The only ones they use are the Ridgewood Park/Ride, and very limited service at Century Road.
TIA.
BTW, is it my lack of experience riding a D60HF or why the heck is the New Flyer logo never present anywhere inside their buses? TIA for that too.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Gillig Phantoms have the logo bright and clear!
Look to the left of the driver's side turn signal
Look right above the engine door latch. The ad is partially covering the logo
Years ago, GMC charged money for the letters of its logo ("G M C"). It wasn't much, but NYCT didn't want to pay it, so the buses came in logo-less (well, most of the RTSs did, anyway). Perhaps that tradition continued with the current group of suppliers (New Flyer, etc.).
(At least, that's the story I got...)
David
Interesting side note: On the rear of one of the Champion buses (I think it was 2083, but don't quote me on it), I saw "Rohrer Bus Sales", which is highly unusual.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The New Flyers DH60's can do 60mph easierly it just that NYCT puts a lid on the Speeds. I guess they forgot to cap it down to 46mph I guess they will do that soon.
Sometimes I've wondered, at what point do you have too many buses? When do you decide to use artics or trains instead?
LOT of buses, nice stuff.
I know what you mean about the sun on that camera screen too. I'm not even sure if i'm taking the right pic sometimes.
Saw one of Loundoun Transit's new MCIs. Unlike their PRTC and MTA predecessors these don't have rear route signs. They are ok looking. They also have a five number fleet number. The one I saw was 71009.
Today I saw a midday double header and that may have been because what is going on in downtown DC. Lead 2454 followed by 2406 was both on downtown G8 runs.
Finally some Landover observations. Riding past Landover, saw the old look just pulling in. Also Landover has moved some of their buses temporarily over to Carmen E. Turner for the rodeo. Lastly came back past Landover and saw more Landover buses moved to the rear next to the gate.
I hope to have some fun(though limited) at the WMATA bus rodeo.
www.census.gov
David
Acela
Okay, I read the link. Why is he a liar?
Acela
What does this have to do with you? Do you think YOU had differences with him before I did? Did I step on your toes? Did you want to flame him first?
Acela
Acela
Will you forgive me for typing the term "SHUT THE F**K" UP"?
Arthur Thomas
OK
Acela
WHY IS IT THAT I AM THE SAME AGE AS YOU AND YET I HAVE THE PROPER COMMON SENSE TO DO THE RESEARCH ON MY OWN RATHER THAN ASK A PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD BUT YOU DON'T????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WHERE THE HECK IS YOUR COMMON SENSE?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The list wasn't created to please you. I thought the marquee was cool. You chill out.
Not to me it wasn't. Did somebody put a gun to your head and MAKE you watch it run?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Is 4traintowoodlawn(Ben) your son?....just curious, that'a s all.
Arthur
No... <.<;
David
MTA's advertising contractor is Clear Channel. I looked on CC's website, but the links aren't active so I couldn't get to the "Outdoor" section. Sorry.
David
Why not?
If I pay for my ad to be on a bus for a year, it DAMN WELL better be there for the whole year!!!
David
David
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Column 1: Transportation Operator
Column 2: Vehicles Inspected February, 2003
Column 3: Vehicles Placed "Out Of Service", February 2003
Column 4: "Out Of Service" Rate of Vehicles Inspected
Column 5: Operator Identification (NYDOT)
Column 6: City Servicing/Origin
Column 7: Region Zone
NYCDOT Private Bus Operators (yellow highlight) in comparison to various other types of local and express bus services provided.
David
Or, as you stated, repeat visits and rechecks were performed, where no differentiation was noted.
I'll post the link for your review. It's in PDF format.
Note regarding Column #2. Insp 02-03 (number of regular inspections performed between April 1, 2002 - March 31, 2003).
Meaning, buses would have been inspected multiple times during this period.
Thank You
As far as the employee not wanting his name disclosed, I can completely understand. However keeping the name of the agency a 'secret' is a 'secret' that becomes public record in a matter of days. I don't see the logic.
I do not understand why i can not mention the company name but i was requested not to i will respect the wishes of the party involved.
For the record it should be mentioned that drivers and mechanics who work for New York Bus Service can remain with them as that New York Bus Service still operates and will continue to operate a school bus fleet. If i recall correctly drivers have or had one pick a year either to pick a express route or a school bus route. Also school bus drivers had the option to work an extra piece on the express routes.
Liberty Lines drivers also have an option to remain with Liberty Lines Transit which operates the Bee Line System under contract from the County of Weschester. Drivers had an option to switch every couple of years if i recall(I am not 100% sure)
I do know at one time Varsity Coach drivers in Brooklyn were allowed to work overtime for Command. I believe that practice was discontinued however
Thank You
Nice contribution, Barry.
Mark
Like, I know about the RTS and everything, they're made by GMC and TMC, but I don't know the other models, like the boxy buses with the slanted drivers' windsheld, or the buses that look like a deformed MCI tour bus but with a strange box on the roof and a tail pipe in the back like a regular transit bus.
What's that?
And what the hell is that new no-steps bus that I see on the Bx15? I know it's some gas bus, but what in the world is that?
Have a nice day...
What do you think of the buses with no steps? Would you prefer the no-steps or the with-steps buses better??
I had no clue the difference between buses either at first. All I knew was the Neoplan AN440 because that's all philly had. Now that I've seen others i've never seen before I look for variety now.
Jeffy for some reason has a soft spot for these POS buses, as do a small subsect of Bustalkers. Really in Philly the Neos are regarded with disdain by most of the riders and indeed nearly sparked a lawsuit when people on the bustituted trolley and trolleybus lines noticed that the other lines were getting much better, more accessible New Flyer D40LFs, and claimed racism. Fortunately they'll all be gone soon. From what I heard SEPTA's third order of HEV DE40LFs, possibly as many as 100 or 200 DE40LFs, will kill them all off.
And to be frank, after the stories that keep making national news coming from racist philly, they shouldn't be getting any federal $$$'s to buy any new buses until they get their act set and be normal liek the rest of america. But if they keep getting New Flyers, that should happen in 4 years anyway.
Here are some pictures:
Enjoy.
That aint no bus, that's a station wagon!
Kudos, and good night!
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com/ctp/id1.html
2. I think you are talking about the New Flyer Viking, an attempt by New Flyer to make an intercity bus.
I don't know what the box is for though.
3. That Bx15 was running an Orion VII CNG.
This particular model is a Compressed Natural Gas-powered bus. That's what the tank above the bus is for. You can also have this bus run on diesel fuel or as a diesel-electric hybrid.
Hope this helps. All pictures taken by Trevor Logan
Here's a few teasers:
The day started when me and Ray (aznboy) picked up Tristan at New Carrollton and we drove over to WMATA's Landover Division bus depot. There we saw the gang, Perry, Wayne, Wes, and Chris G. Charlie Neal was there with his 1957(?) BTCo GMC Old Look 1909. WMATA put a restored GMC New Look 1461, GMC RTS 9112, New Flyer John Deere Powered C40LF 2464, a refurbished Orion V Suburban used for the B30 4391, and a restored WMATA/Ex-DC Transit GMC Old Look 1912. There were also displays of Cummins and Detroit Diesel engines inside the garages.
The suburban Orion V was reupholstered with new dark blue cloth with the DC Capitol building and orange/yellow stripes on it.
They also had a demonstration on how to right a flipped over bus.
The roadeo course was very typical; turning around corners, backing up, making mock bus stops, and braking tests.
Charlie also allowed us to ride in his Old Look, for only a few feet to the garage entrance, but it was all worth it to finally ride an Old Look for the first time.
After the roadeo, me, Ray, Tristan, and Wayne went to find the WMATA scrap lot. After getting lost a few times, we finally parked our cars on a shoulder over a bridge and found the scrap lot. There was an AMG sitting in the back of the lot, but the most depressing sight of all was seeing all those Flx Metro-B's lined up for removal.
The real thrill was at the Shuttle UM Roadeo (Only me, Ray, and Tristan went). This roadeo was literally a driving skills competition. The first thing I noticed when I saw the roadeo buses on the course was "Damn, that Flx is leaning like crazy!". Yeah, these drivers were going all out when cornering the cones and making mock lane changes.
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ckder/MVI_5323.avi
Then, when I least expected it, here comes the beautiful Setra S417 pulling into the roadeo lot. A few people get on including us. This bus is pimped out. It's got a Blaupunkt audio system. power sliding drivers window, a DD60/Allison B500R powertrain, inverted first row of passenger side seats so you can play poker on the table in front of you, and a GPS navigation system that even tells you what song you're listening to on the radio.
We three got the lucky ride, as one of the adult Shuttle UM drivers took the Setra onto the roadeo course! He did knock over two cones, but judging from how big this bus is and how small our Flxes are, this guy was very very good at manuvering the course. This Setra is the total package, looks, cool gear, and power/speed.
They also had a bus pull contest :http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ckder/MVI_5314.avi
After watching a few more drivers, we noticed, while sitting on the Setra, that the drivers were taking some students on a joyride around the course at breakneck speeds: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ckder/MVI_5336.avi
We (Adam, a railfan friend from UMD, me and Ray; Tristan chickened out) decided to get on one of those joyrides. The driver was cornering so hard around the cones that I slid across the back bench I was sitting on. The bus felt like it was literally on two wheels. We even skidded out a few times while making the turns. On one of the joyrides before us, the Flx skidded out and leaned over so much that it popped open one of the skirt panels on the driver's side.
An exciting day it was. As usual, correct any mistakes I made or add any info I might have left out.
Glad you had a good time, though.
I took Orion V 4274 on the F4 to PG Plaza. Waited forever for a C4, it was at least 35 minutes. Then, while on Univ. Blvd, a C2 to Wheaton and ANOTHER C4 to Twinbrook passed us, so there were 3 C line buses leapfrogging all the way up to Wheaton.
They did this after all the competition was over with and they already declared a winner.
So before the tree huggers get on their CNG bandwagon and push CNGs into every city, they need to look at this bus and the invisible black smoke it is spewing out of the tailpipes.
And I had an idea to put GPS and radio's in coaches recently, damn it's been done!
All our buses at PRTC are hooked up to GPS as well. We use a program called Cloudberry to track them. Even our planning dept's. cell phone has GPS on it so when we do route timings, we can check on how it went without having to write down anything. Its funny to re-trace your path on the system and see what happens when you get lost and go in circles a few times. : )
Pay very close attention after the halfway point and ESPECIALLY close attention to the last 5 seconds. This bus is WILD!
Speaking of bus suspensions, do buses today mostly use a rigid beam suspension, or is it mostly an independent suspension? I'd be willing to bet that most low floors use a independent suspension at least on the front wheels since it'd be impractical to squeeze a rigid beam in there for the axle.
It's just a matter of a D40LF having a superior suspension, one which keeps all 4 wheels firmly planted on the road, where they belong. Hot dogging and all is nice at a roadeo, but if the same manuver was pulled on the road (say a moron on a cell phone pulled out in front of the bus), and the operator moved to evade in a similar manner the one wheel off the ground could have serious consequences. We all like to see a B/O have fun with their bus, but if the bus does that in service it could lead to a loss of control and an accident. Of course accidents inevitably lead to lawsuits, and the lawsuits resulting from the accident could cost the TA the funding for as many as a dozen buses. I think for now I'll be happy to ride a bus where the operator doesn't feel the need to push it's limits, it's cheaper that way.
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ckder/MVI_5338.avi
I would say riding Charlie Neal's old look was a great experience. I probably rode an old look, in the past, most likely in the womb or when I was very young. I am definitely making sure I go to the B-more rodeo, though again I won't be there for long again. My first rodeo and definitely not my last. Good thing was seeing no buses towed into the yard. I also got to sit again in a new look. Found the tall man seats, right by the emergency door and behind the rear door, LOL!!! Kind of striking to see the new seats on 4391. Hopefully they will put that bus in service soon. I will be going to B-more again to fine tune some times needed for the Big Time Bus trip. If Howard transit still have those, they need to put one of those Flx's on the Red Express.
Hopefully they will have a couple of more new looks ready for viewing and hopefully they can muster up a Flx new look or two.
I had to split early and didn't really see any real observations other than seeing 9393 on the W4.
The next big bus event in DC is the AAFB shuttles on May 15th and 16th.
I should have said the next big bus event I will attend(hopefully).
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Here is the schedule as I understand it to be:
June 5th-nothing
June 12th-RO/DASH/PRTC Rodeo
June 19th-MTA MD rodeo, SubTalk DC Scavenger Hunt
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Are
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Are B-More's
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Are B-More's Roadeos
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Are B-More's Roadeos any
So wait, Ride On, DASH, and PRTC are on the same day or is it the same roadeo?
Are B-More's Roadeos any good?
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
By the way, wait till you see our new cutaways. They've made their way into regular service on the 95, but they are great cruising buses - smooth ride, too - at least, for a cutaway.
I hope I can get a ride from Frontier instead of having to endure a 4 hour ride and ride 4 buses just to get there. It's a little disconcerting that the Roadeo shuttle (and the 130) both run from a depot THAT IS IN MY TOWN!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene ( gotta go back to work).
Do you think it would be possible for me to ask Frontier to let me ride their "Roadeo Shuttle" instead of having to spend 4 hours on SEPTA when I live not too far away from the depot?
I think this time around, I'm not eating breakfast so I can take advantage of the free food. : )
Daryl J
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Daryl J
Chuck Greene
Yeah, the South Philly location was a LOT easier than Bensalem - just a bus and train instead of 4 buses or 2 trains and two buses (well, maybe 1 bus, 2 trains, and two more buses). All in all, I love transitfanning, but sometimes when you've got to go, it's not as enjoyable.
Chuck Greene
Thanks though! Maybe I won't have to go by a transpass again.
Chuck Greene
Any information is greatly appreciated.
The Metro-B was discontinued and the short lived Metro-C was introduced. It was similar to the Metro-B, except it had a roof mounted tailpipe for environmental reasons.
After the Metro-C was discontinued, the Metro-D was introduced. The A/C grille area went from a tapered look to a flat look. Also, wider window frames were introduced; the wider frames would remain the same all the way to the very last Flxibles.
(Photos by Trevor Logan)
After this came the final version of the Flxible, the Metro-E. It was very similar to the Metro-D.
Are they the only places to have them?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
David
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Mike
Mike
I know there were many people looking for them in the past.
"Sir, what are you doing?"
>"I'm collecting rebuild numbers.."
"What are you collecting this information for?"
The answer to your original question is yes.
Will you also post this question on SubTalk?
I planned to post it over there eventually, I just don't like switching back and forth so much. I wanted to post it here, read, let it simmer down, then go to SubTalk and do so. You'll just have to wait unless you ask yourself.
On a side note, when I went up to Germantown shops (which is where new vehicles are now being delivered to, apparently) on Monday to find out what buses had been delivered, I went to the back of the yard (outside, mind you) where trolleys used to pull in from their runs. In the past, I would be able to spot buses that were about to be put into service or otherwise at Germantown for brake work and note them. On Monday, they had a long line of paratransit vehicles obstructing the view that I normally have of the yard area. I did, however, manage to identify 4 new 5700s that had been delivered, though...
SEPTA, for the most part, has been cracking down on what information they give out to the public, and not just on bus related information, and not just to "bus fans". They've reportedly stonewalled members of the press on certain issues as well, even more so than usual.
I personally haven't, I'm not obvious either. only time i've been questioned was recently for crossing a street in a mall parking lot. This was non-transit related, so I gave an honest answer, i was taking a photo. "sorry you can't do that on mall property". It was of some foliage and a viaduct in the background(sorry site down its hosted on).
Pretty much I guess sometimes you come accross a real bozo. And remember kids, don't cross a street in a mall, even in work clothes, that's a red flag.
Not in New York, but in Bogota, Colombia in October 2001 (three weeks after the attacks). Keep in mind that Colombia has a long history of internal turbulence; the week before my visit, the Attorney General's wife was kidnapped and murdered by one of the rebel groups.
On my first day there, I was photographing some buses when a police officer told me to stop because my camera was pointed toward the French Embassy (four blocks away in the same direction).
On the second day, I rode and photographed the "TransMilenio" bus rapid transit system. Nobody ordered me to stop this time, but there were some strange looks along the way. To ward off trouble, I sought out the customer service agent in each busway station and explained the whole "busman's holiday" thing before taking pictures.
My thoughts exactly. All in all, I haven't had any problems taking bus or light rail pics lately, nor have I allowed myself to be discouraged about doing so. I have the right to take photos on a public street, and I have nothing to hide.
Jim D.
enjoy!
If you wanna see my photo, I'll email it to your email address.
Why did they do that, and what are those models called? Are they Meow-plan? Neoplan? Wat are those? Orion One, Two, three? Or like some vintage RTS-made buses?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
The big box above the rear window is the A/C unit. Not all of the New Looks had A/C units though, some transit agencies wanted it and some didn't.
Here's a link to all the New Looks ever made:
http://www.omot.org/roster/GMList/index.html
BTW, ya have any other imaginative plans (besides the BBQ) involving the whole community? You're SubTalk's man with the plan(s). ;-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thank you very much! It is greatly appreciated.
Now I feel like I know more about buses...
Oakville has also turned alot of their other buses into buses for movies:
-F.
--The bubble-front buses are RTS buses (but what are the makers of that model?) that i've seen almost everywhere
--the boxy buses with the slanted windshield are Orions
--the slinky buses are New Flyer DH60F (or is it D60HF?)
--the natural gas buses with the slanted windshiels are Orion VIIs
--the Greyhound-type buses on the express bus lines are called MCIs
--the weird buses on the x51 are called "Vikings" (WHY??????)
--the natural gas buses that look like the D60HFs are New Flyers, too, the C40LF?
--the buses with the curved windhseld back in the day were called "New Looks"
--the buses not in our city are Flxible Metros and Neoplans...
Is that pretty much right?
So then what are these other bus models that people throw around in here? I haven't seen these other models...are they real models or just fantasy buses that people put here just for the fun ot acting like they know what they talking about?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Not only that but they are also referred to as Twinkies.Why?Because the 2 halves of the buses are the twinkies and the accordian is the cream filling!
Da Hui
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
--The bubble-front buses are RTS buses (but what are the makers of that model?) that i've seen almost everywhere
The RTS is manufactered first by GMC, then TMC, and lastly NovaBus. The model was handed down from one manufacterer down to the next.
The slinkies are D60HFs
The weird buses on the X51 are called Vikings because thats the nickname that their manufacterer gave them.
People just don't throw around bus models!
Artics the slinkys lol
Neoplan An460
But for a nycer point of view i guess...
Articulated
Accordian
Bend-in-the-middle
Slinky
Can anyone think of any others?
However, if the MTA ever orders more artix (new term) from New Flyer, the alternative name for the next artic type will be New Flyer Articulated II.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Both Neoplans and Flxs can be seen in NYC - just about. They operate for NJT on their routes into the Port Authority
(I apologize for sounding like CDTA.)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
KB- Horrible
MJQ- Made the 1000 series artics (which KB trashed) work again after they got them ( in super delapidated condition) from KB
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Not true. When 1070-1109 came in the lower 1000 series went to Gun Hill.
Can anybody tell me when this change happened?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
Being a BO maybe a stressful job what with all the damn stupid and ignorant people but the least they could do is show some damn courtesy and not let what happens to them during the day get to em.That's what makes them so stuck up.
Da Hui
Da Hui
I think that Quill is superior to all other Artic depotes, because they keep their buses nice and clean, they save screwed up buses (1034-1069) and bring them back to life, just as good as new. 57xx artics that are at Quill are going to last for as long time, just as their RTS's will.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The ceiling is not as shiny as the previous order of artics, and the back doors are in a back matte finish, versus the model year 2000 buses that have shiny rear doors, and surroundings. The lighting is lower to the ground and has clear plastic covers, versus frosted covers like the older buses.
The thing that surprised me was that the trim of the overhead HVAC air intakes is now testured plastic (not too sure how these are going to hold up), versus painted metal of the older artics.
The engine did not take its time revving between gears, which was quite a change from the older 5xxx buses. It sounded like some of the many messed up GH buses *cough5350cough*.
The one thing that I didn't really like were the new tape switches ( the bell tape). Although it was cool how it was labeled, it didn't "give" like the old tape to let you know that you're presssed it, so it was a press and hold until the bell rang. It was nice how NFI linked the tape strips in groups of 3 along the ceiling, and got rid of the metal covering that covered the place where they linked the bells on the old buses.
The back doors seemed to have powerful air assist motors, as they opened very quickly and solidly, and slammed shut (with a nice thud) without wiggling around and squeaking like all GH's buses do.
The modified lighting in the bellows is quite nice, and not overly bright like I thought it would be, and of course the green lamps for the rear doors are LED, and not these tiny little bulbs that I got to examine since 5374 had a few green coverings knocked off and its wiring exposed to riders.
The suspension seemed to be improved over the year 2000 buses, as the ride was not rattling your insides to the point where you were wondering if your intestines would fall out onto the seat.
No rattles and squeaks, which is a nice change over the GH buses.
Overall, these buses are a nice improvement over the last order.
There's also the Q10 to the Q56.
I'd say to try all three and see which works best at which times of day.
Also if you are coming from manhattan try taking the A to Rockaway Blvd then the NB Q11
You have many options
http://www.thebreeze.com/asp/FollowTheFastFerryEnlarged.asp
You can find where the boat is currently, its real time!
What do you expect for free...
I started out by taking the B82 (RTS 8344) to the L train shuttle, which was a local bus. Next was the A train (local to 207 St, except for express service between 59 and 125 Street--lead work, whereupon I encountered a rapper in the DefJef mold, details of which are on SubTalk--(C)rapping in the Subway). I then took Bx12 bus 5378 (not bad acceleration for an artic) to Valentine Avenue. At this point, I had just missed the 60 to White Plains, and so I took Bx34 05 206 up to Woodlawn, and there, I waited for the 20 to the Transcenter. When Neo artic 571 pulled up, the bus was standing room only, and remained that way through Cross County. After that, the bus was smooth sailing through to the Transcenter.
At that point, I orginally considered waiting for the 14 to Peekskill, but when I saw that it did not go completely to the station, and with the I bus about to leave, I decided to take the I bus (#132, a New Flyer D40LF with Cummins C8.3 to Allison B400R) over to Stamford. The ride was good for a low floor on the highway, but I was shocked to find out that the bus had a hard time, at 70 mph, keeping up with traffic on I-287 (which has a speed limit of 55--what were some cars going at, 90?) The ride was good to Stamford. There, I walked into the McKinney Transit Center and waited for the 41 to Norwalk. The bus that pulled up was a Nova Classic, #9627. I rode this to Norwalk, and intended there to use a WHEELS bus to South Norwalk, but as I was trying to find out where the 10 bus boarderd, it left for its last trip. The only buses still running were the GBTA CL2 and the 41. I decided to ride the CL2 to Bridgeport, another D40LF, #4305, but with transit seating. That was a rather good ride to Bridgeport Transit Center.
At Bridgeport Bus Station, I saw some different types of buses: D40LFs, D35LFs, and Gillig Phantoms. I have some pictures I will post later. However, I believe that the D40LFs at all Connecticut TAs, whether CT Transit or not, were likely part of one big purchase. Is this the case?
I then boarded MetroNorth, which had power problems the entire way after Stamford, at Cos Cob, Larchmont, Mount Vernon, and at Williams Bridge. Then I took the #4 train and B83 #8344 home.
8344 TMC RTS-06 B82
8495 TMC RTS-06 L shuttle
4049 STL R38 A
5378 NFI D60HF Bx12
206 BIA 05.501 Bx34
571 NEO AN460 20
132 NFI D40LF I-BUS
9627 NOV Classic CT Transit 41
4305 NFI D40LF CL2
8469 GEN M-4 Metro-North train
1143 BOM R142 #4
8344 TMC RTS-06 B83
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Dual-class bus system must end
A buck-fifty no longer buys a ride on state-run MTA buses, but it'll still get a seat on Jamaica Buses or one of the other local private carriers. Sounds like a bargain, except for the 50 cents to transfer to the subway.
Further defeating its value is that a city-subsidized private bus-line trip is noticeably inferior to a $2, free-transfer ride offered by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's NYC Transit. Such a dual-class bus system has no place in a city of New York's stature. So Mayor Michael Bloomberg deserves credit for finally doing something about a nagging embarrassment.
But a welcome plan to transfer management of the seven private lines to the MTA on July 1 is fraught with uncertainties, from the question of which routes will survive MTA scrutiny to what will be the fate of hundreds of dedicated private bus company employees. And as hard as it may be for a quarter-million daily private bus-line commuters, mostly in Queens, to wait another day for the quality service they've been long denied, they'll need to muster a bit more patience as city and state officials sort out the complicated transaction.
For now, though, a basic requirement is that the city, which will continue subsidizing the private-line service, maintain a prominent role in the transition, and that the MTA, which has not always been the most responsive of public agencies, invite input from communities most affected by the transfer.
Everybody likes to blame the franchised private bus company owners for the old beat-up buses and sorry on-time performance. While the owners may share some of the responsibility, the truth is that city officials have been derelict stewards of the taxpayer money that subsidizes local and express routes in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx. That's up to $152 million a year, plus $52 million from the state.
No one followed through
The city let down residents for a decade by failing to put the routes out to competitive bidding, as chartered. The idea was that competition would introduce more efficient operations and better serve riders. Well, it was always too complicated to get done. Or too expensive. The real problem was that no one had the stomach for the job.
Meanwhile, service deteriorated while bus line owners complained that they were underfunded and city officials countered that the operators mismanaged existing subsidies. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
Whomever you believe, though, Mayor Bloomberg had seen enough by the dreaded summer of 2002, when commuters on three of the city-contracted bus lines endured a seven-week employee strike over health-care benefits. That was a turning point, and city officials eventually pushed for an MTA takeover. Never mind that Assemb. Catherine Nolan (D-Ridgewood) had been touting the idea for years. The mayor was determined to make it happen now, by gosh, and save taxpayers money to boot.
MTA officials were willing to go along, up to the point where the city wanted to discontinue its annual subsidies. So the mayor wisely capitulated last week, and announced that the city would continue subsidies under MTA management. Bloomberg should never have made this a fiscal issue in the first place.
Once city officials settle the particulars, the MTA can begin integrating the private bus lines' 82 routes with its own system of 219 routes used by 2.5 million daily passengers. State transportation officials are already ahead of the game with plans to create a regional bus system for the MTA's Long Island bus service in Nassau County and NYC Transit buses. The private bus lines should fit in just fine.
Duplications are likely where MTA and private line buses operate in close proximity. No one begrudges the MTA its need to adjust routes, but it should be especially sensitive to the needs of commuters who've been ignored long enough. What's the point of modernized bus fleets if routes don't match demand?
Fares will change
The takeover will also mean bumping the private bus-line fare up to match the MTA's $2, free-transfer fare, effectively leaving the cost unchanged for commuters who now pay 50 cents to transfer to the subway. The fare change is fine, although it would be nice if there were some service improvements in the short term to go along with it. The $4 fare on private- line express buses, which generally perform better than local buses, is already the same as the MTA's.
Job situation will change
The efficiencies that reduce overall costs will mean disruptions for the more than 400 non-union private company employees. City and MTA officials should do their best to accommodate redundant workers, but they can't be under any obligation to do so. The state agency will take the 2,600 union employees under existing collective bargaining agreements, until the deals are renegotiated.
A plan to meet with organized labor "in the near future" is progress in and of itself, after the city and state left the union out of their protracted negotiations for an MTA takeover. Better to engage workers now rather than later.
Private bus line owners are also worthy of immediate consideration. Some of them have franchises dating back to the 1930s that eventually expanded to accommodate growing communities beyond the end of subway lines when there were no other options.
The 1,200 buses belong to the city, but the private bus lines own a handful of the depots. The chairman of the trade group representing the franchisees told Newsday last week that the companies won't give up their garages for MTA use. Their anger and frustration is understandable, but they should negotiate with the city in good faith for the common good. Besides, the courts have upheld laws of eminent domain for less obvious public purposes, so they may not have a choice.
It must happen
The city agreed last month to purchase 450 new buses, which could take up to two years for delivery. The MTA will amend its capital plan to reallocate $322 million for improvements. The point is that a unified bus system won't arrive overnight, but unified it must be: any other outcome is unacceptable.
Full story: http://www.nynewsday.com/news/opinion/nyc-vpquno253770878apr25,0,369133.story?coll=nyc-opinion-headlines
That's because the companies owned the key City Counilmembers who would have created the bidding plan. Anyone who even thought of starting on a plan would have ended up under a bus (at least career-wise).
- - - - -
"Duplications are likely where MTA and private line buses operate in close proximity. No one begrudges the MTA its need to adjust routes, but it should be especially sensitive to the needs of commuters who've been ignored long enough. What's the point of modernized bus fleets if routes don't match demand?"
That really depends on the specific duplication.
Something like the Q21/Q53 on Cross Bay Blvd is a real waste; the Q21's 72-minute headways can easily be replaced with a few added stops on the Q53. Similarly, the Q14 could easily be rerouted through Mitchell Gardens in place of the Q34, and the Co-op City portion of the QBx1 can easily be replaced with extensions on any or all of the Bx25, Bx26, Bx28, Bx29, Bx30.
On the other hand, something like the Q17/Q25/Q34 on Kissena Blvd, really can't be touched (except for relabeling some Q34's as Q25's), because curtailing one route would necessitate huge increases on the other. Indeed, NYCT has even created some duplications (such as rerouting the Q32 to Penn Station to "help" the M4) in order to better utilize empty buses on one route while not over-serving another.
- - - - -
"The chairman of the trade group representing the franchisees told Newsday last week that the companies won't give up their garages for MTA use. Their anger and frustration is understandable, but they should negotiate with the city in good faith for the common good. Besides, the courts have upheld laws of eminent domain for less obvious public purposes, so they may not have a choice."
Finally, somebody outside of BusTalk has the nerve to say that publicly.
Yes, I've noticed it, too.
[If the Cooper's would have used the money they made towards repairs and new equipment (like the other 3 companies)instead of giving them selves the money it probably wouldn't have come to this.(Granted that this is purely opinion and not fact.)]
Equipment isn't part of the picture, since the buses are supplied by DOT.
For repairs (i.e. maintenance), though, you're on the money. One of the few audits that DOT was ever allowed to perform showed that the Cooper companies have billed, on average, about $75,000 per year per bus, yet those buses are still in crap condition. Meanwhile, New York Bus Service has billed only $25,000 per year per bus, and those buses are in relatively good condition (considering their average age). Which company spent its maintenance billings on actual maintenance, and which companies spent their maintenance billings on other stuff?
And why is it when i'm in a parking lot, i gotta hang back so they can make a turn. A WIDE turn like if a bus was turning. If you need to swing that sucker around in a parking lot like it's a dump truck, get a new car.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Maybe this person did have GIO!
Acela
(718) 243-4186
Acela
Da Hui
And why do a lot of drivers not like them or complain about them?
Mostly at the major intersections - junctions, etc.
And why do a lot of drivers not like them or complain about them?
It depends - Everyone has their own taste for dispatchers.
Acela
Dispatchers can be stationed at any predetermined post, be that at a route terminal, mid-route and anywhere between. The road car has carte-blanche to book wheverer, warranting simple justification (a bus route ;-)
And why do a lot of drivers not like them or complain about them?
Some dispatchers think they are the boss, when in reality they are supervision. It's a power-trip thing. Generally, most SLD's are good guys just trying to avoid the same BS I'm trying to avoid. However, there are those who wish to make more of the job than exists, or take the job personally when they shouldn't.
There are also plenty of rotten apples for bus operators. Some challenge, initiate or create their own problems too. A good majority of us, however, get along and understand the game, play it, and go home to enjoy life.
Live to drive another day.
It states this information because the legislation passed, and agreement with the local community board which allowed the depot to be built in that location (changing zoning) called for all buses to be stored off-street and indoors. They are hidden from public view, but not stored indoors.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Nonetheless, the people that have a vested interest in QV hgousing the fleet indoors are the local residents of the area. The buses are snugly asleep away from those peering passersby eyes :-)
With the exception of...
That's because the companies owned the key City Counilmembers who would have created the bidding plan. Anyone who even thought of starting on a plan would have ended up under a bus (at least career-wise).
- - - - -
"Duplications are likely where MTA and private line buses operate in close proximity. No one begrudges the MTA its need to adjust routes, but it should be especially sensitive to the needs of commuters who've been ignored long enough. What's the point of modernized bus fleets if routes don't match demand?"
That really depends on the specific duplication.
Something like the Q21/Q53 on Cross Bay Blvd is a real waste; the Q21's 72-minute headways can easily be replaced with a few added stops on the Q53. Similarly, the Q14 could easily be rerouted through Mitchell Gardens in place of the Q34, and the Co-op City portion of the QBx1 can easily be replaced with extensions on any or all of the Bx25, Bx26, Bx28, Bx29, Bx30.
On the other hand, something like the Q17/Q25/Q34 on Kissena Blvd, really can't be touched (except for relabeling some Q34's as Q25's), because curtailing one route would necessitate huge increases on the other. Indeed, NYCT has even created some duplications (such as rerouting the Q32 to Penn Station to "help" the M4) in order to better utilize empty buses on one route while not over-serving another.
- - - - -
"The chairman of the trade group representing the franchisees told Newsday last week that the companies won't give up their garages for MTA use. Their anger and frustration is understandable, but they should negotiate with the city in good faith for the common good. Besides, the courts have upheld laws of eminent domain for less obvious public purposes, so they may not have a choice."
Finally, somebody outside of BusTalk has the nerve to say that publicly.
Yes, I've noticed it, too.
[If the Cooper's would have used the money they made towards repairs and new equipment (like the other 3 companies)instead of giving them selves the money it probably wouldn't have come to this.(Granted that this is purely opinion and not fact.)]
Equipment isn't part of the picture, since the buses are supplied by DOT.
For repairs (i.e. maintenance), though, you're on the money. One of the few audits that DOT was ever allowed to perform showed that the Cooper companies have billed, on average, about $75,000 per year per bus, yet those buses are still in crap condition. Meanwhile, New York Bus Service has billed only $25,000 per year per bus, and those buses are in relatively good condition (considering their average age). Which company spent its maintenance billings on actual maintenance, and which companies spent their maintenance billings on other stuff?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Ray
Any information is greatly appreciated.
David
I live along the busy corridor stretching from the Toms River-Lakewood to Matawan, which has a train station people throughout this corridor commute by. The parking problems at Matawan are pretty bad, and I think a Lakewood-Matawan Rail Station bus would do good, also serving other areas not served by transit now.
I have been thinking about this for a while, and came up with this routing:
-Lakewood to Freehold Mall via Rt. 9.
-Freehold Mall to Taylors Mills Rd. via Rt. 9
-Taylors Mills Rd. to Laffayette Mills Rd./Wyncrest Road
-Wyncrest Road to Rt. 79
-Up route 79 to Matawan and the train station
Some of these areas don't have bus service, and I think this route could do fairly well as a limited schedule route.
Thank you in advance for your time,
Matt R.
However, I must say that the Route 9 portion of your route would probably not capture any commuters who now have a very frequent one-seat ride on to Midtown, Wall Street, or Newark. Maybe your focus should be on roads with little or no current service.
Also, perhaps you should communicate your ideas directly to NJ Transit or to the Monmouth County Planning Board (which funds some NJT local routes).
Gone are the days of the flashing "Bypass" light whever the farebox was messed up, say hello to Whole Box Lighting! Brought to you by Gun Hill, Of course...
Of course not.
The TA would rather take the hit in the lost revenue of small pocket change rather than lost servive translating into reduced federal funding. Remember, now with the metrocard, they have your money up front.
"Let 'em ride".
David
I'd been told that these funds are derived from both the state and federal level. Please explain.
The only MTA money that Transit gets (on paper, anyway) is from B&T tolls and the sales-tax-for-transit account. The toll-sharing formula is biased toward the suburbs (although the bridges and tunnels are within the city limits), and Pataki has consistently diverted the city's portion of the 0.25% sales tax surcharge to upstate pork barrels. (That move was intended to punish city residents for not supporting Pataki, and it led directly to the 1995 fare increase. Giuliani cheered and applauded it, while both Straphangers and the unions have remained suspiciously silent. Hmmm....)
So where (or what) is this 'federal funding' that both the TA and union indicate is at-risk upon failure of bus operators to comply with ADA regulation, DEP regulation and on-time performance/trip completion?
Michael
Washington, DC
David
David
To clarify: Any federal money that a transit agency might receive is in the form of capital assistance. In other words, federal money is available to build a garage and buy buses but NOT to operate or maintain the buses.
Thats a good point!
Bx31 # 1074
I remember I didn't believe that NYCTA didn't accept dollar bills - it was too foolish! Good thing i got two subway tokens (back in the day)
Heh it's not too bad if you have 2 dollar coins, which is accepted on NYCT fareboxes. I have basically abandoned using coins unless I don't really see the need to get a Metrocard, which doesn't happen often.
Ah, the dollar coins are great, but I'm glad that SEPTA has those ancient fareboxes that accept pennies - forget coinstar!
Da Hui
The SmarTrip farebox has been in test service on 175 buses. The new farebox will be installed on the balance of the 1,500 bus fleet between May and August, 2004. The new farebox accepts the SmarTrip card for fare payment and transfers; customers can still pay fares with cash (no pennies), passes and tokens. Not all buses/routes will have the SmarTrip farebox during the three-month installation period. For more information please see the SmarTrip on Metrobus brochure, SmarTrip on Metrobus Fact/FAQ sheet, and the list of Metrobus routes with the SmarTrip farebox and installation schedule.
SmarTrip fareboxes on Metrobus installation schedule
Starting May 3 and May 8, Metrobuses with the SmarTrip farebox will begin operating on these routes. Not every bus on these routes will have the SmarTrip farebox until the installation program on the balance of the Metrobus fleet is completed in August, 2004.
This information will be updated regularly, as the SmarTrip on Metrobus installation program expands to more routes in Maryland, the District and Virginia during May, June and July, 2004.
Starting May 3
Buses from the Royal Street garage that serve these routes in:
Virginia Virginia and the District
8-S,W,X,Z
9-A,E
10-A,B,E
17-A,B,F,G,H,K,L, M
18-E,F,G,H,J,P,R,S
21-A,B,C,D,F
28-A,B
29-K,N
11-Y
13-A,B,F,G
Starting May 8
Buses from the Southeastern garage that serve these routes in:
The District
M2
M8,9
N22
W2,3
W6,8
W9
Thank you very much.
What the f*ck kinda handle is yours?
Either you are 11 years old, an idiot, or a troll.
...Let's not take it that far - He's pretty much given us over a year of hell.....
Acela
BTW, can someone tell me a brief history of Orion made buses?
Miami-Dade Transit in Miami and Dade counties Florida also is known as "Metro", and it has a metrobus division as well.
Also, LACMTA in Los Angelos (also known as Neocentral) calls itself metrobus too.
Metrobus is a common name, but those are the three that i know of. Are there any others I forgot? I think there is a website about the Orion family over the years, from the 1 to the VII.
;-)
I could just imaging Metrorail pylons-on-wheels rolling down P Street!
People were trying to be nice and accomodate your questions, but your responses are rude and crude at best.
What TA do you ride?
Dude instead of asking 1 billion questions, do research, go to a library, look for bus books and old copies of bus magazines read, research and enjoy. Also there are plenty of websites with information that you can use to inform yourself. We have too many people asking the same question all the time. Best of all just buswatch, and bus ride, sometimes you get initmate details of certain buses.
BTW, who has the largest bus fleets in the USA? I hear NYCT and New Jersey Transit, but who else?
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
The long answer: Here's a chance to hone your research skills. Start with Google searches on the familiar names (New York City Transit Authority, Triboro Coach, Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority, etc.) and just keep digging.
Anyone who agrees with me, it will be greatly appreciated.
-160 still has Quill decals
-158 and 159 have Stengel decals
-159 still has a Manhattan bus map behind the driver
Is Stengel so desperate for buses that it had to borrow more surburbans?
But the decals HAVE been changed, so it seems to be permanent.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
The 76 also gets suburbans frequently.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
I used to think it was an accident, til I found out it was deliberately done.
It's very awkward to 'climb up' there like that. It feels unusual.
Revise route of Southbound B60 Route in Canarsie
All southbuond (only) to use Glenwood Road between Rockaway Parkway and East 108 st
All eastbound Buses to operate via Rockaway Parkway ,Glenwood Road,,East 108 street ,Stanley Av ,Williams Av to Stand at FLatlands Av/
Returning via Williams Av,Flatlands Av,.Rockaway Parkway
I have another question. Why dont the come B6/82 make a right onto E.98St and go straight into the L train "out of fare zone" complex? I think that would be easier than the current routing in the area now?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
MetroB
Right next to the B42, but seperated by a fence is where the B6/82(Bensonhurst/CI bound) stops to pick up passengers. This is the "out of fare control" area. I think the B17 should have a spot where the B6/82 stops but I dont think there is any room.
There is also a special traffic light in the "mini hub" so that the B6/42/82 buses can exit the property without little problems.
Hope this helps.
MetroB
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Mark
And is it a regular depot or just a storage facility for reserve buses?
Which confirms that it has stayed at Manhattanville since I saw it last week on the M11.
Now I can eat dinner.
GM built the power trains for these buses.
Who else but GM would be building "GM hybrid-powered buses?"
ALso, is 235 larger than the NYCTA Orion hybrid order which is slowing materializing?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
New Flyer. "GM hybrid-powered" refers to the Allison Electric Drive powertrain.
http://www.iknowrochester.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=433AD81C-DEC4-45B0-A925-3D7C5EC98814
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
"Another bus into Ulmer Park" was a better hint ;)
Bx16 # 5391
Bx31 # 7688
Da Hui
But, for all of us, the biggest part of this event is the shuttle bus service from three remote parking lots to the foot of the bridge. In the past, these shuttles were jointly operated by the MD MTA and WMATA, with some buses sporting special P/R destination signs: MTA AND WMATA WORKING TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THE BAY BAY BRIDGE DAY, broken up at points appropriate for each bus...the last time I went, the NABIs w/Balios signs were new and with the scrolling, the message wasn't broken up but rather gracefully scrolled across the bus.
Now, with MTA running mothballs on light rail shuttle buses, it should be really interesting to see what gets put out for the Bridge Walk. All buses usually have air conditioning, but with MTA in the picture...well things will be interesting.
For logistics information, here's the official URL of an information page on MdOT's website:
http://www.mdta.state.md.us/mdta/servlet/dispatchServlet?url=/BBwalk/BBwalk2004b.jsp
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
N28: Currently runs from Roslyn RR to industrial park off West Shore Rd. Idea: Extend to Sands Pt, Hempstead Transit Center, and Roosevelt Field Mall. Routing would be: Lighthouse Rd to Cow Neck Rd, down Cow Neck Rd to Shore Rd. From there, follows N23 Harbor Rd service to PW LIRR(this N28 extension would completely take over the harbor Rd service). It would then go down Beacon Hill Rd/West Shore Rd to the industrial park and follow current N28 routing to Roslyn LIRR. From there, down to Glen Cove Rd. From Glen Cove Rd, half would turn left onto Old Country Rd and terminate at RFM. The other half of the runs would continue onto Clinton Rd, then over to HTC
New Route:(via Berry Hill Rd, Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway, and Wantagh State Parkway) Bayville-Oyster Bay LIRR-Syosset LIRR-Crossways-down SOB(135) making stops at most, if not every exit, down to Seaford. In the summer, buses would continue to Jones Beach via Wantagh Pkwy. As much as I hate the term, this could be Long Island's BRT.
Oyster Bay/Bayville service proposals: Which of the following are the best in you're opinion in order from best to worst? You can make any modifications to the routes that you want.
N21: Extend to Oyster Bay. Probably down Duck Pond Rd, then Oyster Bay Rd, then Chicken Valley Rd to the OB LIRR
N27: Extend to Bayville via Forest Av, some other roads, then Bayville Av
N48/49: Extend to Bayville via 106 to OB LIRR then up to Bayville
N35: Extend to Bayville via Brush Hollow Rd, Jericho TPKE to Rt 106, then follow N48/N49 proposal from there
New Route: Follows N35 proposal from Bayville to Brush Hollow Rd. At Brush Hollow Rd, half of the buses would go down Brush Hollow Rd to Old Country Rd, then to RFM. From RFM, down Clinton Rd and over to HTC. The other half would continue on Jericho TPKE west of Brush Hollow Rd to Mineola BLVD, where it would turn south and go to Mineola LIRR. From there, maybe follow N40/41 to HTC.
New Route: Bayville-OB LIRR-Syosset LIRR-Crossways-Jericho Tpke to Walt Whitman Mall
New Route: Bayville-OB LIRR-Syosset LIRR-Crossways-LIE to Pinelawn Rd(making stops at most or every exit), then down to Newsday. Possibly further down Pinelawn Rd to Rt 109, from there, follows N72 to Babylon
There, I said it.
Then, service will be reduced after the euphoria settles down. Similarly to the situation we will witness with the MTA managing the private companies.
Hopefully MTA will be smart and instate some express bus services between NYC(maybe downtown, then to brooklyn)and Nassau, maybe even western Suffolk. Something running down the LIE maybe(though that probably wouldn't be such a great express run, hell, service road would be faster).
Thanks a lot -Sam
http://www.grandforksgov.com/bus/CCard.htm
More details on the farebox
Werid box.
It seems to be loaded with stuff, but the question is, does it accept pennies? Also, it's pretty, well, boxy - it looks like something you'd see at a subway station. it also looks huge - bad for MCIs...
DRIVERS WANTED
Immediate FT and PT openings for CDL Drivers with good driving records for NYCTA Access-A-Ride Paratransit Program.
-Salary from $11 to $16.87/hr
-Yearly Increases
-Sign-on Bonus
-Overtime Available
-Safety and Attendance Bonuses
-Paid Training
-Paid Vacation/Holidays/Personal Days
-Medical/dental/vision coverage
-Life Insurance coverage
Apply in person or by phone to your local Company.
The companies offering position are Atlantic Paratrans of NYC in Maspeth, Maggie's Paratransit and TFM Paratransit of East New York, and the local MV Transportation garage in Brownsville. Can you say, strikebreakers?
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
"As of March 2004, Routes 26A, 26E, and 26W averaged 179 weekday, 15 Saturday, and 10 Sunday riders, for an average of 4 weekday, 2 Saturday, and fewer than one Sunday passengers per trip"
More information available in the press release:
http://www.wmata.com/about/george_hearing.pdf
To a point Weezie can't be bailing GEORGE out every time he has problems, haha.
SEPTA managed the Route 207/WHIRL circulator bus within West Whiteland Township that connected the Exton Square Mall, Exton Rail Station, the Main St at Exton shopping complex, and residential neighborhoods in the township for the past 3 years. Due to very low ridership (the last figures that I saw were about 50-60 pax/day) and no available funding from the township (the service was funded by a CMAQ grant), the WHIRL will be discontinued effective Saturday.
Chuck Greene
Service in Chester County is starting to get worse now - it looks like there needs to be an alternative;)
Also 6266 and 6267 should be listed under CAS and not YUK since the last time I was out there they had CAS stickers and were running on CAS routes.And someone answer me why is 6354-6358 in storage when they can be at WF!?Damn the DOB and their stupid decisions!
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
Acela
Mark
You people should be grateful that you have any access to this information in the first place. Nevermind, whether there are errors or omissions.
For those of you who knock the UTC for having an outdated roster, try volunteering some of your own personal time to help the cause. Go stand at a depot and book pull-out every day, for a week. For a month. Forever. Do that at each depot systemwide, for if it weren't for the UTC and the kindness of Q5 Merrick, you wouldn't have any of this information to complain about.
I'll be honest with you. If it were I who was supplying this information, and you found it inadequate, I'd refrain from wating my time and stop publishing it completely. Count your blessings if such information is important to you; and keep your complaints to yourself.
On the subject of 7676, I saw it on the Bx36 about two weeks ago, so apparently it has been at WF for a while already.
You should apologize!
Glenn and Mark and others who contribute to the two separate bus rosters deserve our thanks for the great job they do in trying to keep up with the changes in the largest bus fleet in the U.S.
Or, you could get from Bayside, Queens to Southampton, England via the QM2, the M50, and the QM2.
Michael
Washington, DC
The QM2 ocean liner does not accept any Metrocards, or London Travelcards, either.
Keep in mind that the TA's Q2 and Q36 both parallel the Q110 so after the takeover one needs to take a more global look at the whole situation.
Very True. While the Q2 and Q36 parallel the Q110, Hillside Ave and Hollis Ave are too far from Jamaica Ave to make people walk for bus service. What they could do however is Elminate the Q110, have the Q36(and Q36 Limited) Travel the entire lenth of Jamaica Ave from Jamaica Center/ or (Parsons & Hillside like the Current Q110) instead of the Jamaica Bus Terminal. Have the N6 start servicing Hempstead Ave. And Leave the Q2 as it is.
"Funny you should mention that - I was very pleasantly surprised to encounter 2140 when I caught the 9 home this afternoon. First time I'd rode a NABI. Very impressed with acceleration, ride, and interior noise level. The automated stop annunciator wasn't working, but at least the destination sign was correctly displayed.
One quirk, though - a young lady got on and grabbed onto a vertical handrail while attempting to take a seat next to me and managed to
actually dislodge it from the receptacle it fit into. Where the vertical handrails fit into the seatback handrail is not a welded one-piece affair, or even mechanically bolted together, as IMHO it probably should be. It's just the end of the vertical handrail stuck into a shallow receptacle mounted to the seatback handrails, and held in place by a rubber grommet. This young lady came along and ripped the vertical handrail right out of its socket. Once she gave up being horrified and trying to frantically pop it back into place, I couldn't resist jokingly telling her, "Sure, a brand new bus and you go and break it already!" She replied, "I guess I don't know my own strength!" Well, she was either the most petite version of The Incredible Hulk I've yet seen, or those handrail connections are not going to be up to the task.
Not a good sign. Cabot is an inner-city garage, and those buses are subjected to the worst streets and operating conditions on the MBTA bus system. The RTS buses currently assigned there rattle like crazy.
JD
This is a great shame, though - I truly thought that NABIs improved since it became known as the North American Bus Industries, but I guess I was wrong...
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
NovaBus did not bid on any of the MBTA's current contracts for new buses.
JD
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
That said, the following is the unofficial outline as we interpret it:
Step 1 - NYCT Announces their "Historic Restructuring", modifying among a variety of things including separate entities for different modes of transportation, the removal of "Authority" from all NYCT buses.
Step 2 - With both public pressure and city legislature support, the MTA NYCT will takeover management from 7 private bus companies operating primarilly in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx. Gradually, this process will result in consolidating all facets of bus service throughout New York City.
Step 3 - Force the labor workforce to create/consolidate/combine one seniority list among all active employees based on new language inplemented in future contracts. Ideally, consolidate all unions into one local goverened by one contract. Grandfather all civil servants to a new 'company' keeping status. Through attrition, remove civil service from the position of Bus Operator. Hire/maintain all new employees under non-civil-service status.
Step 4 - Combine/condense/interline all routes, facilities, equipment and personnel citywide. Remap the routes in parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island.
Step 5 - Remove this new entity from the city level entirely, renaming the new 'agency' MTA Regional Bus and completely disassociating it from MTA NYC Subway.
Step 6 - Consolidating Long Island Bus and Bee Line from Westchester through the Bronx into Regional Bus.
Step 7 - Combine/condense/interline all routes, facilities, equipment and personnel and remap the routes in Queens and Nassau Counties.
Step 8 - Drastically cut service throughout the newly created bus system.
End of outline.
Step 2 begins July 1 2004. Step 3 is going to be a problem....
You will be hearing from our respective unions in the near future with information and details (potentially from your local media or another outlet). I understand there may be possible in-the-field "public-awareness" campaigns sponsored by the unions. Stay tuned.
You sound like a union alarmest who is trying to protect the status quo. The way the mta runs the bus system is broken. This system of one line one depot, fixed sinority lists to one depot and route is outdated waste of money that cost riders and taxpayers millions of dollars in wasted money. Drivers should have the right to pick thier depot and schedule but the mta needs to put the publics interests first.
This notion that service is going to be drastically cut is out of left feild. The mta had all the union and alarmest groups fighting usesless token booths from being closed
I speak from experience and first-hand knowledge. Not what I read on internet message boards.
The way the mta runs the bus system is broken. This system of one line one depot, fixed sinority lists to one depot and route is outdated waste of money that cost riders and taxpayers millions of dollars in wasted money.
Exactly what is a 'fixed seniority list" to 'one route'? I believe you have your facts in error. No such animal. As far as 'fixed seniority lists' themselves, this is the civil service structure. Not MTA mismanagement.
Drivers should have the right to pick thier depot and schedule
In what order? Draw straws? Pick from a hat? Onsies-twosies? Without a seniority list, that's what it boils down to. Outdated system? Hardly.
but the mta needs to put the publics interests first.
Since when has the MTA ever placed the riding public's interest's first?
This notion that service is going to be drastically cut is out of left feild.
If you believe the MTA will run midday and weekend express service, parallel redundant routes on/and current headway, you're woefully misguided.
The mta had all the union and alarmest groups fighting usesless token booths from being closed
Apples and oranges. There is no viable alternative to a missing bus other than waiting for the next bus, walking or another means of transportation.
Your voice lacks reason.
The MTA should NOT run rundundant midday and weekend express service and parallel redundant routes. Eliminating such redundicies is far different that what you implied in your earlier post. Your post implied that the MTA would elininated services that are truely needed. Weekend express service that parrelles subway service is rediculous waste of money. The money would be better spent uprading subway stations to adress accessbility issues
"Exactly what is a 'fixed seniority list" to 'one route'? I believe you have your facts in error. No such animal. As far as 'fixed seniority lists' themselves, this is the civil service structure. Not MTA mismanagement"
I miss typed. Fixed sinority lists to a particular depot are a waste of money. Especially rules that require overtime shuttle runs to originate from the depot the driver works at which often require the MTA to deadhead buses from depots far away when a bus is available at a closer depot wasting fuel and increased labor costs
I don't think you know what you are talking about. A seniority list has very little, if nothing to do with money. All civil service entities are structured this way. Seniority is the name of the game and strictly encompasses the employees longevity on the job. Nobody is fixing it. It's the way the employees are hired. What would you suggest happen? You as the public, assign a particular run to a certain operator YOU feel deserves to operate that run. The only way seniority works different is in Queens where the senior man get's the overtime over a junior man, where as in Brooklyn, the person who worked the least amount of overtime (or as we NYCT personnel call it - a piece) per pick has a higher chance of getting overtime vs. the person who worked the higher amount of overtime. Personally, I like Brooklyn's way better.
A bulk of the time, a shuttle is operated by multiple depots. For instance, the L shuttle may have 40 runs on a given day. There is no way in hell one depot is going to be able to cover all those runs, due to lack of operators and buses, so it is shelled out to multiple depots, basically making it possible to cover.
Needless to say, your entire last paragraph makes absolutely no sense at all.
BIG AL
Thats more specific and understandible. From what you said at first it made it seem like they were going to "drasticly" reduce service on ALL or MOST bus routes.
But some routes are too busy to get a reduction in service.
These effeciencies include
Reduced supervisory staff ie dispatchers, managers etc
Reduced fuel costs - the mta has clout to negotiate better prices plus moving routes to closer depots saves labor hours and fuel. For instance many command express runs can be dispatched from UP which is both closer and quicker deadhead back to depot. Command drivers on the BM3 and BM4 currently have a 20+ min drive back to the depot. If those routes were at UP the ride is 5 min.
Reduced maintance costs. The mta can get parts for cheaper plus the economies of scale of running a larger garage
Of course thier are route consolidations that will save big money. Consolidations like the B2/b100 will save millions. Most B2 riders are also B100 riders. they take the first bus to come.
Necessary from a financial standpoint or a ridership standpoint?
I don't forsee NYCT extending current limit settings. On the contrary, you can expect the fleet about to be overtaken to conform to the current guidelines set for NYCT.
NYCT is about safety. Safety means limiting liability. Limiting liability means limiting lawsuits. lawsuits are the name of the game, cleverly disguised as 'safety'. NYCT will implement all 'safety-related' equipment and protocol currently used on the existing fleet.
Things are about to get a LOT slower, in addition to less frequent and more crowded.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
We'll have to wait and see.
1) Tltles and seniority lists should be consolidated. It's the same job in the same region, so why have all this complication. A short term disruption that is better for everyone in the long run.
2) Routes should be consolidated and reorgainzed. In some cases the result would mean money saved, in other cases better service. Why run duplicate routes with empty buses? Let people walk a little farther. And why not have, for example, limited stop bus routes direct from, say, eastern Brooklyn to employment centers in Nassau? The bus routes are the dead hand of history, and reorganization would be a short term disruption that would benefit everyone in the long run.
That said, the single regional bus carrier makes no sense to me. It makes sense to consolidate NYCT routes in Brooklyn and Queens with the private routes in Brooklyn and Queens and Long Island Bus, because some bus routes might cover all these areas together. But why include routes in the Bronx and Westchester? The president of such a huge entity would be too far away from the employees. Better to have one agency for Long Island (including Brooklyn and Queens), one for Staten Island (including SIR), and one from Manhattan, the Bronx and points north.
The MTA could look into what the LA-MTA has done out in LA. In LA some buses under the bus rapid transit program have transponders on them that allow them to delay lights from turning red if they are within a certain distance from the light reducing delays
Even if the system did work, out-of-sync lights change simultaniously, or close. The distance would be too great to activate. The solution is for the DOT to repair the countless traffic lights throughout the city which are out-of-sync that bog down traffic, create excessive pollution and waste money in time and fuel.
Quite honestly, it's gotten to the point of absurdity. I've never seen so many OOS traffic lights in all my years behind the wheel. Your bus service has been reduced to carrying you one light at a time through New York City, most-likely due to pressure from local community boards to "do something" about safety. What should be done is- the DMV should stop issuing licenses like they're going out of style, and issue them to only drivers who can actually 'drive'. The NYPD should be more vigoruos in enforcing traffic (and parking) law. Intentionally disrupting the flow of traffic to 'slow everything down' doesn't make the roads any safer. It only contributes to road rage and places the burden of responsible driving on someone or something else.
The GPS based system tested in the 1990's by NYCT is a dinasur compared to whats out now. In the early to mid 1990's the fastest bulky desktops were running 33mhz-100mhz chips. Today palm computers are running 300mhz chips. A combination of error correction software and suplimental land based wireless transponder would solve the problem cheeply in manhattan where the tall buildings block the satalite signal. NYCT Could even use verizons 802.11b wireless hotspots located on most phone booths to help out or high speed cellular phone networks that were not available 5 years ago. Manhattan is the most wireless enabled place in the world
"Even if the system did work, out-of-sync lights change simultaniously, or close. The distance would be too great to activate. The solution is for the DOT to repair the countless traffic lights throughout the city which are out-of-sync that bog down traffic, create excessive pollution and waste money in time and fuel" project.
The out of sync traffic lights is a big problem. DOT needs to speed up it's central computer traffic light management. It's sad that almost a year after the blackout manually operated traffic lights have not been synced. I notice the problem in brooklyn
"The NYPD should be more vigoruos in enforcing traffic (and parking) law. Intentionally disrupting the flow of traffic to 'slow everything down' doesn't make the roads any safer. It only contributes to road rage and places the burden of responsible driving on someone or something else. "
I have been long an advocate for installing cameras on buses to issue traffic tickets for people illegally parked in bus stops and in bus lanes. Cheap digital technology makes it cheap and easy. The tiny cameras could be installed just under the windheild of the bus and can be transmitted back to NYPD monitoring via 802.11 or cellular phone networks. Consistant enforcement will change the minds of 90% of violaters many who think they are invincible because they have a PBA sticker in thier window
A small cost for NYCT which stands to save tens of millions of dollars a year in better scheduling, reduced labor and other costs.
I would think that dedicated busways (most likely elevated) in conjunction with a bus terminal in Downtown Flushing could help alleviate the problem.
Most of the Lights were along Main St. The real problem is NYC Traffic Lights. They should have sensors like the rest of NYS. Or that responder technology.
I routinely pass my limited leader. With my 8-passenger comfortably seated load glancing at the standing-room only limited as we go by :-)
I don't understand why people think that the Limited saves over 10 minutes or whatever crazy number they think of. The usual average is like 3-5 minutes but its not unusual to have a 0 time savings or even a loss [which has happened].
However, when the lights are out-of-phase, you can be sure we'll stop at three or four consecutice lights, depending upon the location of the bus stops in relation to the affected lights.
BIG AL
With respect to lights installed which seem to have little or no significance where traffic is concerned, one can only surmize the placement of those lights out of sheer community board petition in an attempt to provide safety for pedestrians. Not unlike removing two driving lanes from Queens Blvd, further clogging traffic in an already congested area, succumbing to pressure to 'do something' about safety. Another example of giving-in to the dumbing-down argument.
Simply, we have become a society who places responsibility of our own actions on everyone else but ourselves. Out of phase traffic lights are only a tiny portion of this effort. The list is endless.
I don't believe this is the case with most traffic signals in NYC. Am I correct?
At night (and even during the day), this is a tremendous boon for bus running times.
CG
Remember back in January to those bitter cold single digit nights? Well, on one of them I needed to catch an N4 late at night in Lynbrook but had no interest in freezing to death on the bus stop. So I set out walking just to keep warm figuring that once I saw the bus I could just jog to the next bus stop and hop aboard.
Well, with all the lights set to green (no other fools out that night driving around) the bus was able to zoom right by before I could get to a stop. I tried to flag the driver down, but he just sailed on by -- didn't stop again until a red light at Peninsula Blvd. I was sprinting down the middle of the road trying to catch him but fell about a block short before the light turned green.
Fortunately, I was able to catch an LIRR train from Lynbrook just a few minutes later...
CG
There are times during the afternoon that this light can back up traffic all the way to 260th Street & Union Turnpike. A full 12 blocks from Lakeville Road, bunching buses, both local and limited on two, four and six minute headways.
Anyway, I have avoided those streets now mostly when they play these games, but I have to admit one thing. On roads I used to see 3-4 maybe 5 wrecks in an afternoon, after they made us do the stop and go game, I don't really see that much anymore. I guess it works. Though adding traffic lights and makign them red is supposed to increase accidents, so I'm lost somewhere.
Its most likely because the lights are so close and change so quickly that it doesn't give anyone time to accelerate to "speed up so they can catch the light". Sadly this effects buses too and leads to anxiousness among passengers (and probally the B/O as well). And this is why unless passengers HAVE to take a bus(ie B46, South East Queens) to get to where they going they avoid them at all costs.
BIG AL
Very miserable indeed. One day I was on a southbound Q77 and we stopped at EVERY light along Francis Lewis Blvd, at the beginning of the cycle, so we had to wait minutes at each light. I was so restless I wanted to jump off the bus and walk, run, whatever!. When the bus turned onto Springfield Blvd my sanity was salvaged.
This may be an urban legend, but some folks claim that local governments DELIBERATELY program closely grouped traffic signals so they're out of sync. This way motorists get so frustrated at being stopped at every light and start running them. Then the police swoop down from their hiding places and issue revenue-raising moving violations.
If this is true, it seems reprehensible- to say the least- that a government entity would create a situation that ENCOURAGES people to break the law, and possibly cause accidents as well!
If drivers don't bother to obey the law that requires turning vehicles to yield to pedestrians (and, in my experience, many do not -- either they assume there are no pedestrians or they don't care), it may well be safer to cross mid-block, where there are no turning vehicles to worry about.
I certainly object to the notion that, in a setting where both pedestrians and motorists are breaking the law, the pedestrian is automatically to blame. The one operating the heavy machinery should be held to the higher standard. Once all the drivers are yielding to pedestrians, stopping for red lights, and sticking within the speed limit, then you're welcome to start blaming pedestrians for their foolishness.
Well, at least where they have been for the past few years -- I do miss the days when they had that huge loop for the busses over on the west side of the mall and the N22 and N79 stops weren't more than 100 feet from the mall entrance.
CG
On Day One, the current schedules will continue to operate.
Later on (months? a year? two years?), each route will probably be fully traffic-checked (just as NYCT's current routes are), and whatever service levels and running times are warranted will be scheduled. That may mean more trips on some routes or at some times of day; fewer trips on other routes or at other times of day; and probably more running time all over the place. If that's a problem, the unions should file formal grievances against specific passengers who ride incorrectly. (Don't laugh - both TWU and ATU have tried to grieve schedules on the grounds that passengers weren't riding the way they were "supposed to" during the traffic checks.)
That said, it's obvious that a lot of unnecessary midday service will remain, due to contractual limitations on "swing" runs (runs whose meal break lasts 1 hour or more). For example, NYCT's contracts with ATU-1056 limits the total weekly swing runs in a depot to 55% of the depot's weekly total runs. ATU-726 has a similar provision, with an extra twist based on the number of swing runs in 1997.
Among the DOT companies, only Queens Surface has any limit on swing runs - 35% for local routes and 50% for express routes. As a result, a lot of unnecessary service has to run just to fill in those meal breaks. (All those short meals on express routes means a lot of missed meals, or missed trips, whenever Manhattan traffic weirds out - which is fairly often.)
I'm not saying whether I agre of disagre with these things, but am simply showing what the story is.
Perhaps. In my original message, I stated the transition process will continue "gradually". A blue stripe is part of that gradual process.
Later on (months? a year? two years?), each route will probably be fully traffic-checked (just as NYCT's current routes are), and whatever service levels and running times are warranted will be scheduled.
Actually, Operations Planning has already in their posession, binders of ride and traffic data from the private lines field. I wouldn't expect you to know this- not many people do. NYCT has been involved 'behind-the-scenes' in every aspect and facet of 'potential' takeover, since 'potential' became reality.
That may mean more trips on some routes or at some times of day; fewer trips on other routes or at other times of day; and probably more running time all over the place.
More running time means more buses. Cutting trips without cutting buses decreases running time. I understand your thinking, but it's somewhat backwards in how schedules are created and implemented.
If that's a problem, the unions should file formal grievances against specific passengers who ride incorrectly. (Don't laugh - both TWU and ATU have tried to grieve schedules on the grounds that passengers weren't riding the way they were "supposed to" during the traffic checks.)
Actually, the grievances that were filed were because the data supplied was edited to reflect ride-check data via front-door entry only. In other words, those school trippers who usually board (with proper authorization) via both the front and rear doors had only data from front door entry used in ride count analysis. The same holds true for those buses which are full to the front where passengers board from the rear.
Again, right idea, wrong information.
That said, it's obvious that a lot of unnecessary midday service will remain, due to contractual limitations on "swing" runs (runs whose meal break lasts 1 hour or more).
For the remainder of the current contract, yes. Which is why I explained that certain 'language' is to be implemented into all future contracts across the board. This is the main issue to contend with.
For example, NYCT's contracts with ATU-1056 limits the total weekly swing runs in a depot to 55% of the depot's weekly total runs. ATU-726 has a similar provision, with an extra twist based on the number of swing runs in 1997.
You should know that local agreements routinely violate those agreements when a hand-in-hand give-for-get agreement is presented.
Ordinarily, yes. Those who board through the rear door without authorization are considered to be fare evaders and thus are not supposed to be counted as passengers. Those with authorization (e.g. dispatcher opens the rear door and tells the kids to board) are supposed to be counted.
Anyway, the specific grievance in Queens related to a route which had gained 6 evening trips while losing 6 morning trips. ATU claimed that the riding could not possibly have shifted because the housing stock along the route had remained constant for 50-plus years. (That claim assumed not just the same ridership patterns over time but the same riders making the same trips for 50 years without being allowed to move out, finish school, change jobs, alter their work hours, use an express bus, retire, or die. Clearly unrealistic.)
Not supposed to be counted? Supposed by whom?
If they board through the rear door simply because they don't feel like paying the fare, then I agree, they shouldn't be counted.
But if they board through the rear door because otherwise they'd have little chance of fitting on the bus at all (since passengers have the uncanny tendency to clump near the front of the bus, making the empty space in the rear inaccessible to those boarding via the front door) Especially if this takes place at a major subway transfer point, where nearly everyone boarding has already paid a fare on the subway and by "evading the fare" is simply failing to register a free transfer.
What about those who "evade the fare" because they never make it as far as the farebox? I recently had a ride on the B1 on the bottom step of the front stairwell. When I boarded at Mackenzie Loop, that was the only empty space on the bus (except, perhaps, for a pocket in the rear -- but I would have had to "evade the fare" to reach that pocket as well). The bus didn't stop again until Brighton Beach, where I got off to transfer to the B train. (I assume almost everyone on the bus got off at Brighton Beach, since this was an Ocean Parkway short run.) Should I have not been counted because I was "evading the fare" (or perhaps because I was violating federal law)?
If "fare evaders" who only "evade the fare" because otherwise they wouldn't be able to ride at all aren't counted, then there will never be enough service to accomodate them properly, and they will continue to "evade the fare." If, OTOH, they are counted, then service will be increased to the level necessary to accomodate them at the farebox, and they will stop "evading the fare" (once it becomes obvious that everyone who tries to board through the front door will fit).
Those with authorization (e.g. dispatcher opens the rear door and tells the kids to board) are supposed to be counted.
Not everyone who rides school trippers is a "kid."
That's the same as jumping a turnstile with a monthly card in your hand: it's still considered fare evasion.
I also disagree.
Let's say that 50% of fare registrations are via unlimiteds. (I don't know what the actual number is.) At an average bus stop or subway station at an average time of day, one can probably assume that about 50% of the boarding passengers are using unlimiteds. There's a 50% probability that somebody who jumps the turnstile has an unlimited -- much less, actually, if one considers that someone with an (activated) unlimited has little if any motive to jump the turnstile, unless one of the turnstiles is broken and there are long lines at the others. Thus it is quite reasonable to treat turnstile jumping as fare evasion, barring exceptional circumstances.
Now turn your attention to a bus stop where, say, 90% of the fare registrations are free transfers. In other words, as long as passengers bearing free transfers have a motive to board through the rear door (e.g., they wouldn't fit on the bus otherwise), the probability that any given passenger is actually evading the fare (i.e., obtaining an unauthorized free ride) is about 10% -- or more like 5% if the 50% unlimited rate applies. Automatically treating such a passenger as a fare evader is unreasonable -- especially if doing so (and thereby not counting him as a passenger) only further perpetuates the problem (because there will never be enough service to board him through the front door). Perhaps this should be treated as one of the aforementioned exceptional circumstances.
If you ever get the chance, I invite you to watch the passenger flow at Brighton Beach (both exits on the west side of Brighton Beach Avenue) and Sheepshead Bay (around the corner on E. 16th) between 7 and 9 in the morning and at Mackenzie Loop between 1:30 and 3:30 in the afternoon. If all those passengers boarded through the front door and stood behind the white line, it would take hours to clear the queues.
The b36 sits for a few minutes most night. the b36;s problem is mainly due to the poor on time performance of the line. My guess is the drivers blame it on the subway stop. It is my experience of using this service over a 10 year period is that the b36 is LATE and the buses are BUNCHED before they arrive at the station creating long lines and uneven bus loads.
As for the Mackenzie loop near kingsborough college. the mta should install a bus shelter that allows riders pay thier fare before the bus arrive allowing front and rear door loading. Another solution to reduce dwelll time is proximity card metrocards + low floor buses which will allow riders to board quicker. The b49 and b1 could use articulated buses for peak period runs at kingsborough
True. Whenever I ride the B36, the bus gets crowded by time you reach Coney Island Hopsital [I used this as a example] and its not unusual to see 2 or even 3 buses during the rush at Sheepshead Bay station heading towards Avenue U. Last time I rode it, there were at least 40 passengers waiting to get on the bus.
The b49 and b1 could use articulated buses for peak period runs at kingsborough
So you expect them to come from the MaBSTOA division?!
So you expect them to come from the MaBSTOA division?!"
Just an observation. Of course with flatbush not having any artics it is not currently possible
It is my contention all along that the MTA should have a few artics in each depot. The current policy of running 100% artics on a particular line at all hours of the day and night is both wasteful and ineffecient. Running an artic at 1 AM is a waste of fuel and labor costs
For instance of flatbush had articulated buses. they could run primerilly on the B41 but be used on such lines as the b49 during the peak kingsbourogh period which is not ussually rush hour. The same bus could be used on the combined b2/b100 during it's peak evening period of 5:30-7 pm to reduce the needed number of in half(each express train load at Kings highway dumps about 2- 2 1/2 bus loads of people onto the b2/31/100, the ridership #'s looked at over the day don't show the true story). The logistics of such a setup could be worked out. The logistics of such a setup could be worked out and made easier once automated bus monitoring is rolled out
Not supposed to be counted? Supposed by whom?
Traffic checkers. Those who enter through the rear without proper authorization are not to be counted as part of the passenger load. I've even had traffic checkers who refused to count anyone entering through the rear regardless of authorization. There seems to be some miscommunication among the very people who are trained to do this particular job.
If they board through the rear door simply because they don't feel like paying the fare, then I agree, they shouldn't be counted.
Obviously, and granted. However, this is not the idolated case we are discussing. You already touched upon and expanded upon the scenerio below:
But if they board through the rear door because otherwise they'd have little chance of fitting on the bus at all (since passengers have the uncanny tendency to clump near the front of the bus, making the empty space in the rear inaccessible to those boarding via the front door) Especially if this takes place at a major subway transfer point, where nearly everyone boarding has already paid a fare on the subway and by "evading the fare" is simply failing to register a free transfer.
Exactly.
What about those who "evade the fare" because they never make it as far as the farebox? I recently had a ride on the B1 on the bottom step of the front stairwell.
Actually, you shouldn't have been there at all, and should have been told to exit the bus and take the next bus. It's illegal for you, and a violation of both federal/state law and agency rule top allow you to ride forward the white line. But this is another topic entirely.
Should I have not been counted because I was "evading the fare" (or perhaps because I was violating federal law)?
You could have waited until it was clear, or asked the person in front of you to dip your card. But again, we're getting off-track.
If "fare evaders" who only "evade the fare" because otherwise they wouldn't be able to ride at all aren't counted, then there will never be enough service to accomodate them properly, and they will continue to "evade the fare."
Perfect example of why rear door boarding is permitted in the first place. To accomodate the riding public, even if that capacity load isn't counted towards data to improve that exact service! Absurd? Absoultely. Par-for-the-course at NYCT? Absolutely.
If, OTOH, they are counted, then service will be increased to the level necessary to accomodate them at the farebox, and they will stop "evading the fare" (once it becomes obvious that everyone who tries to board through the front door will fit).
Which is exactly how and why they manifest their data to reflect the numbers that best suit less-than allocated budget, not ridership needs.
Does it not stand to reason to the intelligent observer, that those who need a bus in the evening to return from work would most probably need that bus in the morning to get there?
:o
some people get to work 1 hour early, some a half hour early and some arrive at the last minute spreading out the load. In the evening most people leave right away creating a large load in a shorter period of time.
Maybe, maybe not. Some people have strange hours. Some people who return from work at 9:00PM may have gone to work at 8:00AM or 10:00AM or noon. Some people, like the couple from whom I bought my apartment, have the chutzpah to take an express bus in the morning (for comfort) and the subway-to-local-bus in the evening (to avoid the vagaries of Manhattan traffic). People have the right to ride (or not) as they see fit, without being anwerable to ATU.
Who knows what will happen? The only sure thing is that NYC will have one TA serving it (except for 9 or 10 Bee-Line routes and the LIB routes.) Also, the issue of the BxM3 is a big question, unless the MTA will inherit Liberty Lines Express' waiver allowing service to run to and from Getty Square.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Therefore, the MTA will propose serious service cuts, including the elimination of at least 75% of the franchise express bus system. If the people scream loudly enough and the unions are "broken", only the weak routes go. If the unions don't cooperate, the proposed cuts will be made. The MTA is not going to tolerate a swing quota for the Queens Surface employees that makes them run midday service for "no reason".
Long Island Bus could join in 12 months and Bee-Line could follow right behind. Both have budget problems, Nassau hates funding buses, and Westchester is pretty upset that Nassau gets away with not funding their system. I also anticipate at least two major strikes within the next 24 months and a temporary driver shortage in the Bronx. Drivers from unnamed franchises were not thrilled at the prospect of working for the MTA other than the fact that they get to keep food on the table.
I happen to know that the management of at least one franchise bus company are actively BIDDING on other contracts. This is going to be a nasty process.
If anything, keep N21 going to Flushing and bypass Great Neck and have the N20 terminate at Great Neck.
Thats exactly what I'm afraid of.
Please remember however, currently, we are witnessing a takeover- not a consolidation. That can only happen under new contractual obligations and agreements between management and employee. Right now, we are watching a takeover under existing contract, which most definitely, has all the earmarkings of a prelude to RBC. Premature? Absolutely. Which is why we must all wait, observe and proceed with caution.
1. Anything can and will happen.
2. Anything can and will happen.
3. Anything that happens can easily unhappen.
I hope I explain this correctly. I know I'm missing some information but I'll try anyway. Amtrak added up the train mileage in Zone 5 by railroad. Washington-Florence (Seaboard) had the most mileage, followed by Washington-Salisbury (Southern) then I think Washington-Newport News, and lastly Washington-Pittsburgh.
Percentages were calculated for each line. Since Washington-Florence had more mileage than Washington-Pittsburgh, a Seaboard engineer got a higher seniority number than a B&O engineer with the same years of service as an engineer.
I SUSPECT that a similiar calculation will be done with the new bus seniority list. Some method will have to be devised to determine the seniority of a NYCT B/O with 20 years of service with a Command B/O with 20 years of service.
Michael
Washington
Silver Spring, Maryland is served by WMATA, Ride-On, and MTA Maryland.
Fairfax City, Virignia is served by WMATA and CUE.
There's many more cities in the DC area, including the ones in PG County, but The Bus and CTC don't count as real transit agencies:-)
The rail side has NYC Transit's huge subway system, PATH, and three big commuter rail systems (LIRR, MetroNorth, NJ Transit).
Philadelphia (3):
SEPTA
PATCO
NJTransit
Chicago (3):
Pace
CTA
METRA
Atlanta (3):
MARTA
Cobb County Transit
Gwinnett County Transit
Los Angeles (?)
LAMTA
Foothills Transit
Laidlaw
A bunch more that I can not think of right now
That's all of the cities that I can think of. I'm sure somebody on the board will help me out as far as Los Angeles is concerned
Most of the "bunch more" are municipal carriers, and Laidlaw is actually a contractor for several outfits...
Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority
Los Angeles (City) DOT - "DASH" neighborhood shuttles and "Commuter Express" long-distance routes
Southern California Regional Rail Authority ("MetroLink")
Foothill Transit Zone
Glendale Bee Line
Montebello Transit
Long Beach Transit
Torrance Transit
Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines
Culver CityBus
Santa Clarita Transit
Antelope Valley Transit
Orange County Transportation Authority
Interestingly enough, Foothill Transit and LADOT "Commuter Express" were initially created for the sole purpose of taking over LACMTA routes; both have expanded since then.
Also, Foothill is unique among all of these in that it has no employees - two contract carriers operate and maintain the buses, and a consulting firm provides the management functions.
In SEPTA territory (not counting Philadelphia) -
West Chester: SEPTA and Krapf's (shouldn't really count as they're a private company)
Pottstown: SEPTA and Pottstown Urban Transit (which gets funding direct from PennDOT as a "Class 3 - Small Urban" transit system)
Wilmington, Delaware - SEPTA (Regional Rail), DART First State, and NJ Transit (423; operated and managed by Salem County, NJ)
Trenton: SEPTA (R7 and 127 bus) and NJ Transit (bus and rail)
There a couple of rural counties in North Central Pennsylvania which are served by two transit systems - the City of DuBois is served by DuFast Transit and the Area TA of North Central Pa. I can't remember off the top of my head if there are others.
Actually, Krapf's is both an independent operation ("Route A") and a SEPTA contractor for a couple of the 200-series and 300-series routes.
In Northeastern PA, there are two points (I think in Old Forge & Kingston or Pittson) where a route from Scranton's COLT (County of Lackawanna Transit-not the same as Lebanon's COLTS!) connects with a route of Wilkes-Barre's Luzerne County Transit Authority.
And further west in the state, Johnstown has a Westmoreland Transit route as well as its own CamTran (Cambria County Transit Authority). Pittsburgh is served by at least Westmoreland Transit, Port Authority of Allegheny County, New Castle Area TA, Beaver County TA, & Mid-Mon Valley TA.
Michael B.
Tacoma which has 3 1/2,
Pierce Transit
Sound Transit (ST Operated Link Lt Rail, and PT operated ST Express)
Intercity Transit
King Co. Metro (for a short stretch in NE Tacoma)
Federal Way has 3 again
Pierce Transit
Sound Transit (ST Express routes operated by both PT and KCM)
King Co. Metro
And there are many other places in the Tri-County area with some service by more than one operator.
Olympia has 4
Intercity Transit
Pierce Transit
Mason Transit
Grays Harbor Transit
Centralia has 3
Twin Transit
Grays Harbor transit (Friday's only)
Lewis Mountain Highway Transit (not sure where they run to in Centralia)
Just thinking off the top of my head at cities I've been to in recent years that aren't already covered by previous responses:
New Orleans had NORTA and Jefferson Transit
Orlando has Lynx and the authority that operates trolleys along International Drive
The Phoenix area is a little complicated, as there seems to be an umbrella agency, but several different operators (most using "Valley Metro")
San Diego is similarly complicated, although the operators are more easy to identify, e.g., San Diego Transit, MTS, Chula Vista Transit, North County (a/k/a The Wave), etc.
Hartford has CT Transit, but the Greater Hartford Transit District subsidizes commuter service by private operators such as Post Road Stages, Kelley Transit, etc.
The Dade County/Broward County/Palm Beach County area of Florida has some overlapping service, with buses from one authority entering an adjacent county
Perhaps it is more difficult to find a major city that is not served by more than one TA!
I'm not sure if those "trolleys"(which need a rear door) is considered a TA, even though it is funded by a special taxing district....
I did my list off the top of my head, but did a little more research into the I-Ride Trolley on International Drive. It is run by the "International Drive Master Transit & Improvement District," which certainly sounds like a TA of sorts. I believe they contract out the service to one of the local charter operators, perhaps Mears. It is a shame there is no coordination that I could find between the I-Ride Trolley and Lynx service in that area.
I've noticed something interesting about the I-ride the few times I've stood at a bus stop in that area recently. People will ride that thing and not the 8 or 42 lynx, which the lynx is so much more comfy, and has a rear door.
You can have 3 I-rides go by with standees(how do they exit!?!), but none of those people will get on the earliest 8 bus, before the "trolley", even though they go to the same exact places.
It just proves, unless if you're used to it, or are told about it, most people won't do the extra five minutes of research to see if there's another way. If they did, i'm sure some express buses would be used a lot more often. Some people don't even realize if they got a bus outside their door!
But for the comfort, and the 3 bucks to go anywhere for the whole day, I wait it out for the lynx and not the loud "trolley". Last time i was there I sold a new yorker on using a day-pass instead of buying transfers(he was going to use 4-6 buses that day) :)
The I-Ride wasn't that bad of a ride. Going back one night to our hotel in January, the driver had the radio on and the Monkees, "I'm a Believer" came on and everyone on the bus started singing along. That was a very fun night.
Cities SERVED by w agencies. I would say:
Tampa, PSTA express buses go into tampa and makes stops and not just a transfer center.
Oldsmar(northwest of tampa), Served by HARTline, PSTA, and used to be served by PCPT.
And Clearwater is a city, and so far HARTline 200x has a top of bus stops on one small strip of road. :)
Tri-rail and that whole tri-county Miami thing.
Disney World. It's it's own city, with it's own bus line, and it has LYNX in there.
Amazingly I can't think of any others with real transit agencies and not like school bus systems.
But cities where buses meet up at a specific stop to transfer to the next system:
Sarasota/Brandenton
Hartline/psta/pcpt(tampa, st. pete, pasco county). Will have a 4th in a few years.
Miami metro(4 systems).
Something similiar is in LA i'm sure.
Hm...i went from well-traveled to idiot on this question.
The city of Santa Rose in Sonoma County, CA is serve by three TA's, they are:
Santa Rose City Bus(Santa Rose's own local bus system)
Golden Gate Transit(runs intercity and suburban commute routes)
Sonoma County Transit(serves several small cities[inclue Santa Rose] in Sonoma County)
ENJOY !!! Will post more when my photos being developed!!
Can't wait to see photos of the "RTS Extreme" low-floor bus.
JD
THAT MEANS GOODBYE NEOPLAN DK EB AND EI BUSES!
I can't believe that this summer I'll have to saw goodbye to 3488 already...
Also, since they are in the Capital Budget for later years, how does SEPTA exactly intend on paying for these new buses?
The "cool" thing is that by the year 2006, we would have the most modern fleet of comparable TAs, I think - our oldest buses would be 1996 models...
Now you expect this agency which has allowed more than 50 miles (estimated) to languish in obscurity because their operation didn't fit with the plan at the time, or because it could save a few pennies by slashing service on a given line. You expect them to stop an exsisting order of 102 inch wide buses and instead go to another builder to buy a tiny order of buses a mere 6 inches narrower? ARE YOU NUTS OR JUST DREAMING?
This is SEPTA! You know, bustitution, fare hikes, night owl subway service, run by a some-what evil little woman from a modern edifice to banality on Market St? They don't care if buses get stuck on Germantown Ave, the fact that there shouldn't even be buses ON the street to begin with is LOST UPON THEIR EMPTY HEADS!
So how about instead of going off and pursuing a 96 inch wide transit bus for the 23 and maybe a whole half-dozen other SEPTA routes, which will last the standard 15-20 years, we instead go do the RIGHT thing for a change and actually USE the rails on Germantown, Erie, Girard and Torresdale?! We'd kill two birds with one stone, you don't gotta worry about your ride getting stuck on Germantown, and I get to actually be proud of SEPTA for having significantly less wasted infrastructure. It's a simple plan, first they completely tear up the 23 and 56 (the 15's mostly done, although IMHO the western end could use some work), and replace the old girder rail-in-paving stone track there now with the rubber enveloped in concrete track now common on the subway-surface. This track is smoother, less maitenance, and also easier on the cars driving on the concrete above, you'd no longer have people complaining about the state of Torresdale Ave (which is terrible, I drove it today). This project would be easily accomplished in 2-3 years if given full funding, since the whole route is already bustituted anyway, we could have two or three work zones per line and just detour the buses around the construction. Next we need cars to run the lines. Obviously we're out of PCCs so rebuilds are out, and there are no K-cars to spare, so SEPTA would finally have to bite the bullet and shell out for new cars. I like the Skoda-Inekon Astra 10T, the low floor streetcar that Portland Streetcar operates. They're light, highly accessible (just stick a NFI-type ramp on them), perfectly sized for SEPTA's operations, with two trucks and two articulations, they avoid the problems that MBTA has encounter trying to run a split-axle low floor car on a heritage-type system. I'd prefer if they were made as compatible with the PCC IIs as possible, that'd mean body by Skoda, trucks by Brookville, and electronics by Kiepe, with final assembly done at Brookville Mining Equipment. Enough cars would have to be ordered to cover the 15, 23 and 56, this would move the PCC IIs to Elmwood (shouldn't be too hard to fit them with CBTC, assuming they don't already have it) to bolster the rush hour depletion of the K-cars there. It'd also put the more accessible low floor LRVs on the streets rather than in the tunnel. It's easier to run an accessible LRV on the street where just having an onboard ramp makes it accessible than running it in the currently non-ADA compliant subway surface (still haven't seen the elevators at 30th St move an inch), where a W/C passenger would get off and face 20-30 steps to the surface.
This of course would be more expensive right now than ordering 96 inch wide buses, probably by an order of magnitude or more, but in the long term SEPTA would benefit more from truely fixing the problem of the 15, 23 and 56 rather than another band-aid that'll fall off in 15 years when those shiny new 96 inch wide "special" buses fall apart and need to be replaced. Those LRVs should last at least 30 years, probably a lot more, they'll also provide a higher LOS and at the same time make the area along Germantown Ave even more attractive to live in. The greater number of doors means that no longer will there exsist the mass of people huddled around the narrow front door of a Neoplan DK in the winter (this of course assumes SEPTA is smart and would choose POP for the 15, 23 and 56). And at 66 feet long, they'll carry more passengers than the "big" Neoplan Artics that would be unable to navigate the narrow Germantown Ave.
Oh well, just my coupla cents, don't bother specifically replying to the last two paragraphs, I'm gonna copy them over to Subtalk, since they really are somewhat off topic here.
Back in the day, before the Transpasses were put on magnetic cards, there was a thriving counterfeit business in fake Transpasses. SEPTA and the City spent considerable amount of time and money in putting the presses out of business, it wasn't until they changed the fare colllection system to use magnetic passes that this problem stopped.
This sadly is the culture of the people here. From the multitudes that buy all of the counterfeit goods from guys in the street, all the way up to the kickbacks and bribes paid to the "Powers that be" in City Hall, not to mention all of the lawsuits filed by all of the Ambulance chasers that passes themselves off as lawyers, an finally all of the un-insured drivers that polllute the roads, corruption is a time-honored way of life in this crappy town.
For the RiverLine, the lady was there and didn't even check my ticket. I felt like I wasted money.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Unless SEPTA is competant and NF finally makes a decent product.
Chuck Greene
A friend of mine mentioned to me a week or two ago that LI Bus would be getting around 60 more Orion V CNG buses in the next month or two, which will replace all of the remaining diesel buses. Looks like the delivery has begun.
First off the 8:05 21 to New Carrolton never showed up, so I had to take an unidentified Orion VI. I would have missed the 15X, but the 15X was late. This bus was 63057 one of the newer SLFs with the Mercedes Benz engine. Almost to Greenbelt and racing at around 40mph, for some odd reason the back doors all of a sudden opened. That instantly brought back flashbacks of the RTS's back door problems. Anyway, the driver had to stop the bus to get the back doors closed. After that fun(or disturbing exerience), I got a Metro bus with everything working and working at the right time and proceded up into truckbus and MTA territory.
Coming back from truckbus territory, got back to Greenbelt and made more THE BUS misobservations. First off was 62937 having extreme chipped paint, with the destination sign reading(yes one was working-but it was wrong)25-Capitol, 25-Heights. 62922 came with a taped up door in the front, just looking plainly odd. Then came my 15X. This time it was 63058 the other newer SLF with the MB engine. The back door didn't open unexpectedly, but one of the front doors couldn't close, so the driver and at one time a passenger had to manually close the door. Well I saw a notice behind the driver and read it, and it talked about the problems THE BUS was having with some of their buses, ground some of them. For that reason, some routes had decreased temporary running times.
OK here was some good news and sort of good news. First off, 63058 who as soon as they got onto THE BUS's property had "SPECIAL" in its destination had something else......A REAL DESTINATION, and on top of that, THE RIGHT ONE *BIG GASP*.
Next somewhat good news was hearing that THE BUS was supposed to receive new buses back in February(and not the ex Bmore-MTA ones), but I couldn't hear which kind of buses they were. So it could be more CAGVs, ODVs, SLFs, some other similiar SLF type bus, or dare I say, some REAL buses. Ok maybe some SLFs. Apparently Yellow and the PG County public works are at odds on something, don't know what again couldn't hear the whole conversation, and on top of that the radio was blairing. "Secret Lovers, That What We A..." Oh never mind, I guess somehow, someway I will see what new crap THE BUS is getting and still waiting for the ex MTA SLFs to hit PG's streets.
Just wanted to let you all know that Rochester's newest buses, Gillig LF Suburbans, are on their way.
I hope you guys don't mind that BFT (in Richland, WA) is borrowing one to test out. We have unit #812. Really REALLY nice coach.
BTW, BFT stands for Ben Franklin Transit (Benton-Franklin Public Transportation Benefit Area). We are funded by a 6/10ths of one percent sales tax, and federal grants.
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
The seats behind the wheelchair securement area all face forward, all the way to the back. In the raised section over the rear axle, there is a raised platform to allow all the seats to be mounted to face forward.
I do find it odd that there is no back door, however. I am sure that if BFT decides to piggyback on the contract, they will changeorder for a back door.
On another note, we are also testing a 30ft Gillig LF on its way to Buffalo, NY.
Brian Bradford
Kennewick, WA
bn897@scn.org
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
I'd be worried about NYC considering Gillig though... If they feel its a good idea to bid on upstate contracts, where the roads are measures worse than anything NYC has anymore...
If someone's thinking "Wait, how would he know anything about the streets in NYC", I'll have you know I lived there last year, in Brooklyn, at the corner of Pacific and Franklin. I'm also moving back so I can attend CCNY in the fall.
I've seen roads that make Broadway look like a smooth pane of glass. I've ridden 14yo 35ft Gillig Phantoms on roads in such bad shape they had to shoot grout underneath to smooth them out. They rattle and shake, but so would any other bus, with the possible exception of the Flxible Metro.
NYC, make way for the Gillig Low Floor!!!
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
RGRTA just rolled the new 2004 Gillig LF Subran bus, I plan get photos shortly, the bus ran on Route #22 Penfield..
It was a nice damn bus ever I seen, so different, it has plastic security door by the driver, prevent from attackers, real nice ...
BIG AL
BIG AL
BIG AL
That corner is a relief and timepoint for the B1, 3 and 4, so you'd see drivers and dispatchers grab a bite there all the time. Since it was in close proximity to the Coney Island facility- and a block away from the PS248 training center, there'd be many other transit employees there as well. And of course, UP is a few blocks away.
My young'un and I started hanging at that Nathan's back in summer 2000, as it was a good place to take a food and bathroom break while rail or busfanning in Brooklyn. When we discovered the Suburban Novas running on local routes, Rob was smitten! Most of us think those padded, oversized reclining seats and narrow aisles are a nuisance. For a kid, it's ecstacy.
It seemed like all through fall 2001 and that winter we were heading down there to try to get a Suburban Nova. The confluence of three UP routes at the stop in front of and across from that Nathan's made it the best place to go. You never had to wait long, even on a Sunday.
Our courtship with Suburban Novas ended on a B64 when the contents of an airborne soda can (launched by a participant in one of the skirmishes brought about by this seating format) landed partially on us. The woman who threw the can offered no apology or assistance. Neither did the woman who was the target of the can. They just continued cussing and threatening each other. The driver and other passengers were too scared to try to break it up.
We now get our busriding jollies on Artic turntables.
B1-#9321-NOVABUS
Included are:
1996, 1997, 1998 NY Metro Area Mega Bus Calendar allat 1/3 original price
Corgi GM Old looks - Fifth Avenue, Surface Transportation, Madison Avenue, NYC Board of Transport
Corgi PCC's SF Muni and Brooklyn
Approximate Ho scale GM fishbowls custom painted in two SF Muni schemes and AC TRansit
http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Orion-Text.html
Let the power of Orion mystify you....
Thank you very much!
your friend,
Tom
Operators of the city's private bus companies said the city Transit Authority won't recognize federal laws to ensure nonunion workers job protection in its acquisition plan for the lines this summer.
On July 1, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority will assume control over seven bus franchises, and dispatchers, secretaries and other nonunion workers are worried they will be out of jobs.
The MTA will continue to honor existing labor agreements, but franchise owners said the city has not addressed the Urban Mass Transit Act, which would make the MTA liable for job security, benefits and the rights of dismissed and displaced workers, including those who don't belong to a union.
Jerry Cooper, chairman of the board of the Transit Alliance, said about 200 nonunion employees at Green Bus Lines, Command Bus Co., Triboro Coach and Jamaica Buses are affected, and hundreds more at three other bus companies.
"According to the law, the nonunion employees are entitled to the same protections as the unions are in a takeover," said Cooper. "We think they're entitled to the same protections that the unions are, and the MTA has not recognized them."
Since the city and MTA last year announced plans to take over the lines, the franchise owners have not had a seat at the negotiating table. This month, after the city and the MTA announced an agreement on terms of a takeover, the city extended an invitation to the operators.
"We disagree with Mr. Cooper's interpretation of the federal law," said Jordan Barowitz, a spokesman for the mayor. "There are myriad legal issues to resolve, and we will be negotiating all of them with the bus owners over the coming months."
Cooper, who is scheduled to meet tomorrow with negotiators for the first time, said no deal is final without protection for the workers.
"So far they haven't agreed to be bound, and we're saying they better get agreed to be bound," said Cooper, who is president of Jamaica Buses.
An extended operating agreement between the city Department of Transportation and the companies expires June 30. The acquisition would end the city's annual subsidy commitment to the lines. Last year the subsidy was $150 million.
The merger is a win for bus riders, including those of Liberty Lines Express, New York Bus Service and Queens Surface. Commuters will be able to take advantage of MetroCard discounts, and the city plans to buy new buses within the next 18 to 24 months.
The cost of rides will go up to the $2 MTA fare, but the $4 express service fare to Manhattan will not change.
Of course, the News refuses to mention that Cooper himself is four of those employees - he gets over $300,000 combined from his companies. Add in the predictable no-show nepotism across all seven companies and a good number of those employees end up not worth worrying about.
1) A new type of employee graffitti has been hitting GH buses- Check out 5292.
2) Instead of freaking vandalizing the buses, why the hell aren't the employees at Gun hill MAINTAINING the buses. There's writing all over the stop request signs, writing and scotch tape all over the front windows, the plastic partition by the front doors, as well as on the ad panels. They see fit to do this to the buses, but the bell on 5292 doesn't work, as well as having 4 flourescent tubes and both lights in the bellows blown, and the trailer portion of the bus has the interior lights flashing whenever the bus hits a bump.
3) The B/O ( I don't know the run since i've never caught this bus)who likes to leave the BX22's north terminal at Bedford Park at 3:30-3:33PM (he is supposed to leave at 3:37, as per the new schedule dated 4/11/04, but he was supposed to leave at that time since the last pick) every day (anywhere from 4-7 minutes early) REALLY needs to stop doing this, because he is making run 20 REALLY packed, and forcing the nice B/O to ask passengers to move back at every single stop (he's really good at this). The bus had about 5 people standing, and all seats full when we left the terminal, and the trailer was packed once we reached fordham road. Naturally, as you can imagine, things went down from there (stuffed to the doors after leaving fordham plaza) .
Just venting...
BIG AL
BIG AL
Metro purchases 175 new CNG buses
Transit authority focused on cleaner modes of bus travel
Bus riders in and around the nation’s capital will have the opportunity to catch a cleaner mode of travel as the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) awarded a contract for 175 new compressed natural gas (CNG) low-floor buses this month--its third procurement of the alternative fuel buses.
The Authority will continue to expand its Metrobus fleet of new clean-fuel vehicles with a fourth procurement of 75 buses expected this July, bringing its CNG count to 414 buses. The 31-year old Metrobus system currently has a fleet of 1,422 buses of which 164 are CNG. The 1,258 diesel buses all operate on ultra-low sulphur fuel.
Two years ago, the WMATA Board agreed to purchase the 250 new CNG buses by the end of fiscal 2005. The current 164 CNG buses are housed at the Bladensburg Bus Division in Northeast Washington, DC. The Authority is looking to house the 175 new buses at a second retrofitted maintenance garage and fuel facility at the Four Mile Run Bus Division across the Potomac River in Arlington, VA. The next order of 75 buses will be shared between both garages.
Metro’s Board of Directors, in October 2002, endorsed a $22 million proposal to install a CNG fueling facility in Arlington County, VA, and make necessary modifications to existing maintenance and service buildings so that when Metro expanded its CNG fleet, the buses would be serviceable there.
Renovations to the existing facility are required for local code compliance for CNG bus operations. These renovations include enhanced ventilation and heating; new generators for backup emergency power; upgrades and the addition of doors and walls to achieve more stringent fire ratings; installation of a methane detection and control system; and installation of an emergency lighting system which requires an upgrade of various electrical components.
The new buses are manufactured by Orion Bus Industries, Ltd., of Ontario, Canada, and each have a seating capacity of 41 passengers, including two locations for wheelchairs per bus. The total cost is approximately $67 million or $365,000 apiece.
“We have a commitment to our customers and to the Washington Metropolitan region to provide reliable, safe, customer-friendly bus transportation,” explained Jack Requa, Chief Operating Officer for Bus. “A big part of that is our commitment to improve the region’s air quality.”
In October 2001, Metrobus converted from standard diesel fuel to ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel and has since added exhaust after-treatment devices to further reduce particulate matter (PM) emissions. The CNG buses will produce a comparable reduction in PM, plus reduce nitrous oxide emissions by about 50 percent. The reduction in nitrous oxide will assist the region in reducing emissions in its most critical area: ozone pollution.
The Washington Metropolitan region must comply with federal regulations for air quality by 2005 to remain eligible for select federal transportation funds. The introduction of Metro’s CNG buses works toward that goal of keeping vehicle emissions within a federally stated range. The new CNG Metrobuses have the same red, white and blue painted design on their exterior, however customers will know that they are riding on one of the new buses when they pull up to a bus stop because the buses have a special large roof-top configuration that makes them easy to identify. A banner along the top of the bus points out that customers are riding on a clean fuel bus.
The arrival of these new buses in late 2005 continues a commitment on the part of the Metro Board to do its part to improve regional air quality, which has been labeled by the Environmental Protection Agency as at risk for being a non-attainment area as it relates to air quality.
In March 2004, the WMATA Board of Directors also had a discussion on the merits of diesel-electric hybrid buses, but no decision has yet been made on any future plans to expand the bus technologies used in the Metrobus fleet.
Metro to participate in the annual Chesapeake Bay Bridge Walk
Metro to provide 160 buses to shuttle Bay Bridge Walkers
Metro will provide 160 buses and bus operators to shuttle participants during the 29th Annual Chesapeake Bay Bridge Walk on Sunday, May 2. A combination of articulated buses and compressed natural gas buses, will be used.
Metrobuses will shuttle walkers between nearby parking areas and the bridge and then return them to the parking areas after their walk.
"The walk always attracts people from the Washington Metropolitan area, and once again walkers will be greeted by the familiar site of our red, white, and blue Metrobuses," said Jack Requa, Metro's Chief Operating Officer for Bus. "I'm sure that at the end of the day there will be thousands of weary walkers who will be very glad to catch a ride on a Metrobus."
This year marks the 16th time that the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (Metro) has participated in the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Walk by shuttling participants. It is also the first year that Metro will be the sole transportation provider for this special event.
"This annual event has become a hallmark of the kind of service we provide above and beyond our regular weekday and weekend commuter service. We are proud to participate in an event which has as its goal, a renewed respect for our environment," said Mr. Requa.
Metro is supplying the buses under a contract to the Maryland Transportation Administration.
Let's enjoy the Flxibles while they last.
Alot of those 87s, 88s, and 89s should be scrapped, but some of them can still run for a while.
Just a thought, or could it be that all these freakin' Orions ordered and/or coming making me wish for something different to come.
Yesterday Morning, Going to the Nostrand Avenue Train Station(A/C) - I noticed they moved the B44 Bus Stop that was on Nostrand Between Macon & Fulton to the middle of Nostrand between Fulton and Herkimer.....One Question: Why? BIG AL, Do you know anything about the move? Or can you find out? I find it more convient back at the old location.
Acela
Acela
Acela
--End Quoted Text
Probably because it was a safer position than having at the NW corner of Fulton and Nostrand. There's a lot of pedestrian traffic at that location from passengers exiting the subway. Also there's a rather busy bodega at that corner.
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
BIG AL
Addendum:
The Northbound(Williamsburg) bound buses had a bus stop at Union and Utica and none at Eastern Pkwy. After the Utica and Eastern Pkwy reconstruction projects, the bus stop at Union Street was removed and placed on NE corner of Utica and Eastern Pkwy. Now that bus stop was eliminated and is on Utica, taking the entire block from Union to Eastern Pkwy. Im sure this move was to try to keep the dollar vans from picking up passengers there.
I noticed that over the years, there have been fewer dollar vans along Utica Av but they're still out there.
The reason they moved the stop pretty much makes sense though, they'll move the bus stop back when the street is finished, correct?
Thanks again,
Acela
BIG AL
Jeez, man... You've had some bad luck, haven't you? I remember with only a few rare exceptions that NYC's buses were exceptionally clean inside, that they appeared to be operating in a safe manner (doors close and lock, brakes work like they should, mirrors present, etc). As for schedules, I figured out quickly that the printed schedule is FAR from accurate, that its mostly to display average times between buses rather than attempting to actually display what exact time a bus will arrive. When you have intersections every block, you're going to have a bus that's slow. Just leave plenty of time for your travel, and especially during the day, use the subway as much as possible.
As for surly drivers... They are only surly to you because you are rude to them. I've found NYC's bus drivers to be among the nicest bus drivers anywhere. I would put their care of passenger rating right up there with what BFT achieves, with the Pickle awards. You've just got to learn to be nice to your fellow man, and your fellow man will be nice to you in return.
If you want to see surly and rude drivers, go to Vancouver, BC. Bus drivers there will happily cuss at you for no valid reason, especially if they happen to be driving one of the trolleybus routes.
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
Very good thoughts and analysis, GMC TDH-4512
i don't think i'm flaming (least not in the manner I'm sure your describing). I thought Mr Fishbowl was being a little irate, however.... which is why I posted what I did.
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
the "TDH" should have been a clue... i'm not so knowledgeable on the designations of GM's buses that date before the RTS... except for knowing the first 2 numbers denote seating capacity, the second 2 numbers denote series. I'd thought series 12 was high enough to be a fishbowl (maybe 17 is where they switch, i'd better stop before i really make myself sound foolish).
Of course, I've still yet to figure out Gillig's new model numbering system... sounds like it was intentionally meant to fluster busfans.
Nothing like the simple Flx Metro... width+length+engine cyl+man.
Brian Bradford
bn897@scn.org
Kennewick, WA
-- member of BFT Citizen's Advisory Committee
I just wanted to add that the first and second generation fishbowl models were also TDH/M & SDH/M (like the old looks). The first fishbowls were TDH-5301/2 & TDH-4517/8. The later model designation (T6H, S8H etc.) were the third and fourth generation fishbowls
So our bus & 1146 bypass each other quite a few times then finally at 63 Dr, the engine of 1146 once again gives out and the passengers have to switch onto our bus, which got very crowded then 257 wasn't too far behind us. Its a fairly slow trip to Union Turnpike where I get off to transfer to the Q37 and tere was a long wait judging by the # of passengers, which was at least 60. So two buses pull into the stop, 244 & 606 so I go into the latter and its a quick ride to Rockaway Blvd then I get on 5518 on the Q7, ride that to 140 St and the Q40 is coming down the street and I get on 625 take that and at Sutphin Blvd/Archer, people appearently don't know how to use the back doors.
Anyway I get off at Jamaica Av and waited for the Q54 or 56 to come to take a ride to Parsons Blvd to get something to eat but it was taking too long so I decide to walk and I beat the buses, which were nowhere in sight to begin with. I stopover at Bruger King then the Q8 is arriving so I take 234 via 101 Av to Woodhaven Blvd and I catch 290 doing the short turn/changeover to Q41's to/after Liberty Av and I wait about 20 minutes for the Q21 and see a Classic, 715, running on the Q11. Then 5515 arrives and its a quick ride down to the Rockaways but then as I get off at B 116 St I see the Q35 and I try to run for it but to no avail so I had to wait 20 minutes and it was starting to get windy outside so that didn't help. Then I see 225 and nothing really happened but leaving B169 the Q22 was arriving, hopefully getting the connection but the B/O was pulling out [ouch!] Then I take the B11 to the Q trai then the B8 and finish my trip.
Some notes:
-Saw 5 QV Remans: 7010,7021,7027,7028,7036
-On 7027, it had a Q3 destination to 165 St but was running on Jamaica Av, must of been a Q30 or 31
-Saw 3 GBL Classics: 711,712,715
-At least 1/3 of the GBL buses I saw had broken roll/LCD/LED signs
R68A 5108 (Q)
RTS 8666 Q32
GBL RTS 240 Q60
GBL RTS 606 Q37
GBL O5 5518 Q7
GBL RTS 625 Q40
GBL RTS 234 Q8
GBL RTS 290 Q11
GBL O5 5515 Q21
GBL RTS 225 Q35
NF 801 B11
R68A 5051 (Q)
O7 7644 B8
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I seriously doubt that. The GBL has always had a practice of not running certain types of buses on the Rockaway Division. I am shocked that the Orions are on the Rockaway Division. You rarely see TMC on the Rockaway routes nowadays.
I know right. Now most of the time I see them on the Q10, Q11 and Q60 however I saw 1163 on the Q35 yesterday.
That's what I've been saying for YEARS now! That route is too long for it to be all local.
Q54 & Q56 that late? I can understand the Q54 having problems because of the Brooklyn portion, but this isn't too common with the Q56.
I too was surprise that no Q56 had showed up, I find it to be usually reliable but I know how the Q54 can be sometimes.
Da Hui