1)With the success of the "artics" on the Y8 WMATA plans to put artics also on the F13. They want to do this in order to increase service on this route.
2)To view the route numbers more better they decided to put the route number where they could see it, but they did something wrong in putting the signs in upside down. Of course noone notices until six months have past when a maintenance person asks, when did they start putting the route number on the left side of the front of the bus.
3)Since cutting back service was so great WMATA wants to save more money and cuts the Y8 to 30 minutes and here is the kicker. They put longer buses on this route to help improve customer flow, but only put
Orion IIs and Orion V-30 footers.
4)Also with the success of the Y8's artics they also decide to put "artics" and cut back service on the following crowded routes: C2,4 , F4, 28A,B, 30s and the 90 routes. Although throughout the whole year none is seen.
5)They go through with the extension of the J4 but to Branch Avenue. So in serving Bethesda, Silver Spring, Langley Park and College Park, the J4 will now serve New Carrolton, Lanham, Landover, Capitol Heights, Addison Road, District Heights, AAFB and Morningside terminating at Branch Avenue.
6)They bring back the N7, nuff said
7)They plan to run buses on wine but that falls through when most of the wine is drunk by bus drivers and whinos who have mysteriously became bus fans.
8)Last but not least due to the success of both the B30 and the 5A they decide to do an express route to National Airport(anyone who knows Washington will get this one).
1) As the 8700 series Flxibles get retired, WMATA will repaint all of them to the new scheme so that they enjoy their remaining two weeks of existance in it.
2) In response to Chris D's complaints of the headways of the R2, it will now run every 90 minutes rather than every 70 and the last bus will be at 6:30 PM instead of 8:30 PM.
3) Midday service will be eliminated on the Y8 between Wheaton and Olney
4) In retalition, WMATA will now start to parallel "The Bus" routes and then ralize that they are actually duplicating their own service.
5) New LED signs will continue to be installed, but will no longer have the route on it. They'll just have the destination and everyone will have to guess which route it is. All bus stops will be taken away as a cost cutting measure and will have a 'flag stop' system instead.
4)LMAO!!!!
oh Yes and another kicker. B30 buses will now be assigned to the 52, Next Bus buses will be assigned to the Z8 and Pike Ride buses will be assigned to the J12,14.
And to further the destination sign mess, new screwed up signs will a also say such phrases as "BLING-BLING" "WESTSIDE" "THIS IS AN ARTIC"
"SPECIAL BU" a sound a fart makes and the F14 signed to terminate at Tyson's Corner.
On a serious note, I hope they hold off retiring them as long as possible. The oldest Flx I have ride there is a 9700, and I want to enjoy the older ones before they are gone forever. :(
-Fred
WMATA also dips its scoop into the ice cream industry by selling Good Humor bars onboard the Orion II's on the Y8 to disgruntled passengers compaining about the cramped cabin
The 27 is brought back by WMATA but now runs from Dorset Avenue to Wheaton, Langley Park, and Minnesota Ave in Northeast DC
-Smoke
-Consume Food or Drink (READ THE WARNINGS CHRIS)
So although they sell it you won't be allowed to use it until you get off...(anyone who keeps up with transit news will see the allusion here, to last year's proposal to put Redbox-like vending machines in Metro stations)
-Replace the luggage racks on the B30 with vending machines; place vending machines in rear door clearances on other buses
Good thing Ride On didn't have an adopt a stop program, especially for a certain someone who's certain route was terminated. That stop wasn't adopted at all, it was a hostile takeover.
For awhile, there was construction on Dorset behind the inbound stop, but the construction trailer's arrival made conditions there worse, and they never improved once the construction ended.
-F.
TransitChuckG
Chuck Greene
WMATA-bidding goes out in the middle of 2004 for 250 CNG buses, or 250 buses period.
Baltimore MTA-has dumped Neoplan and has piggybacked an order for 125 New Flyer, most likely D40LFs to be delivered around Spring of 2004.
Ride On-Was supposed to get their first batch of Orion 7s but they haven't arrive yet. The second batch is supposed to come by May or June (just an estimate)
DASH-already got their 35 foot Orion Vs in mid 2003 and they went into service November-Dec of 2003.
Cue-Got their Gillig 30 footers earlier this year.
BWI-Not sure when they got their Neo low floor CNGs, but they are now in service, they probably were delivered in Nov/Dec.
PRTC-Piggybacking an order with Charlotte and is replacing their Omnilink buses with Gillig Advantages
Maybes:
University of Maryland is said to be getting new buses but that is not 100% confirme
ART is most likely getting them since they aren't taking over the route that is now run by the 22B till summer.
Connect-A-Ride was seeking bids for at least 2 low floor coaches, not sure when or if that was done or when these buses are due to arrive.
Unsures:
Howard Transit got some more truck buses last year not sure if they are getting any buses this year.
THE BUS should be replacing their so called CAGVs, but whether they are or not is unsure, but hate to see what they would replace them with.
Fairfax Connector not sure if they will be getting any this year, still have a handful of Orion Is and would most likely replace them with Orion Vs.
Fairfax Connector - I think they're good on buses for now, the Is are used as spares mostly
PRTC - I think their October newsletter indicated a desire to replace their reserve RTSes, one of which I saw in operation at Springfield yesterday.
Georgetown Metro Shuttle and Connect-A-Ride both received the same model of International 3400-based Champion bustrucks, ETA undetermined. I wonder if Howard Transit was in on the deal..
ART will probably stick with their wannabes until they can get off their gravel lot in Springfield and into a real garage.
UMD - replacing the 40' Bs? Or a supplemental order?
BMTA - Estimated arrival Spring 2004, estimated service date Summer 2006 :p
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
45 of 'em, 7810-7854. And they are indeed 1994 TMC RTS T80 206s.
Here is a picture of one that is being blocked by a particular unnamed Individual:
Sorry, but I do not have a better picture
These things have Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines with an Allison V731 transmission.
JD
Same bus as in Ray's picture
-Fred
Where do Fairfax's 30-foot Orion V's operate?
JD
Also, there are the 35 foot Orion V's from FFX Connector that I see very rarely, although saw one on the 401 not so long ago.
Oh yeah, I saw an Orion I on the 401 today, too. : )
It seems like they still have a good amount of the Orion Is. I guess the best running ones, are kept including the first group. I have seen numbers as low as 7703 still in service.
The 505 uses mainly RTS's, which is good to break up the monotony of the Orions. I have this hunch that on Saturday's bus trip, Orions will be all that we ride, with the exception of the CUE and DASH Gilligs.
-F.
The L buses are then probably running only Flxibles. I could count the number of times I've seen a 4000 or 2000 series Orion on Connecticut Avenue on the L1, L2, or L4.
Clearly, the even 30s are the premiere lines at Western. The Ls and Ns are clearly lower class (not counting the E6, M4, N8, and 98 which serve ice cream to Knollwood, Pinehurst, Sibley Hospital, Wesley Heights, and Adams-Morgan a majority of the time)
-F.
-F.
-F.
So whose order did MTA Maryland piggybacked their New Flyer order?
Could it be SEPTA's?
Also, I hope Shuttle UM does not get new buses this year. I am assuming that if they do, their Metro B fleet will be out the door. :( And if Ride-On gets Orion VIIs, does that mean curtains for the Is?
-Fred
And Ride On's Orion VIIs means curtains for 1989 Gilligs ;-)
NEW FLYER: Notoriously Everywhere When Flxibles Leave Your Everyday Routes. Which ones will they be replacing in that fleet?
It is a shame they will be in the new flag scheme. LFs sure would look sharp in the good old blue stripe!
-F.
Regards,
T.L.
-Fred
No wonder I moved to NJ. No saber-rattling from NJT's union [they can't strike due to state law], and steady [but shitty] bus service.
Also, what is the situation with SEPTA's ATU and UTU garages?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The Red Arrow contracts (UTU and TWU) expire April 1.
Frontier contracts expire April 15.
I've been curious about that for a while. To me, it doesn't seem that the union and NJT get along with each other, why is that? Can any NJT employee explain that? Can anyone explain the setup at NJT and the union? But I remember reading there was one strike in the early 80's when the company was just formed. No less than 3 years old I think. But I don't know if it was the whole company or Rail Operations that striked. Maybe someone else knows. Thanks!
MetroB
The strike you was referring to was the strike [1983] that occurred when NJT took over the former Conrail commuerter rail lines. NJT [as well as SEPTA, MTA, and MBTA] wanted major concessions from rail unions as a condition for workers to keep their jobs. The workers wanted to keep the benefits and work rules under Conrail, the transit authoritries wanted something more modest. Since Congress wasn't going to pony up more money, the transit systems took a strike in order to negotiate down these benefits and work rules.
About that strike did NJT end up "winning" against the union in getting what they wanted? Thanks.
MetroB
Yes
Where is this?
Baltimore Travel Plaza Greyhound lot
How is the damaged light pole related to Greyhound?
It was most likely damaged by a Greyhound "driver" trying to "back up".
It was most likely damaged by a Greyhound "driver" trying to "back up".
You're assuming it was a Greyhound driver. I don't think that's fair.
Unless it happened during the President's Day snowstorm which doesn't count as recent anymore...
There is not one shred of evidence as has already been stated, that a Greyhound Coach damaged the light pole. I brightend the photo.....the sign in the upper right reads 'HERTZ EQUIPMENT RENTAL'. Quite possibly that company shares this lot, and people who rent equipment usually have little experience operating it or the trailers used to transport. This could also have been cause by a snowplow, as was pointed out.
Judge a carrier by it's equipment, employees, customer satisfaction, and safety statistics. Not random photos. Snap judgements are usually wrong...
Well you know what? ASSUMPTIONS are wrong (your entire post) , being that you have NOT seen the area in person and ASSUME the situation of the photo.
Is THIS easier for you to understand without assumptions?!
Judge a carrier by it's equipment, employees, customer satisfaction, and safety statistics. Not random photos
Alright I will.
The equipment is a cramped and old-fashioned Mc-12
The driver cannot back up correctly
I was not satisfied with my last ride on greyhound. in fact, I saw a greyhound driver ditching one of it's passengers at the plaza as she was running for the bus and he just peeled out with no regards for the passenger who was running for the bus (in pure sight)
safety statistics, I do not have.
As for the MC-12, I LOVE those buses...they still have the classic MCI sloped back end, and most of them still have those sweet 6V92s. :)
-F.
Lies, lies, lies....
Ok, so maybe I exaggerated it a bit. You going 2MPH over the speed limit is barely acceptable. You going anything more than 2MPH over the speed limit is headline news across the globe;-)
65 MPH on 295 in New Jersey between Mount Holly and the interchange with 76 in a 45 MPH construction zone (which was about 12 miles long), 71 MPH on the NYS Thruway for about 30 miles when the limit was 65 (and when it was 55, I was not going 55), 65 on the GSP in heavy traffic when the limit was 55, 70 on 95 from the Newark, DE tolls all the way to 495 except for a few construction zones with narrow lanes, sharp curves, and the Fort McHenry tolls, and I came pretty close to 70 on 495.
Also, when was the last time you even drove on Democracy Boulevard?
Wayne
As for the EZPass lanes, I wish they had one of those YOUR SPEED IS X MPH things just as you approach the lane or a thing that would light up as you enter saying YOU ARE GOING SLOW ENOUGH. I've had to practically stop in the lanes in order to get my pass to read. Also, you will be pleased to hear that the Hillside Toll on the GSP now has an express EZPass lane which allows you to go through at 35 MPH and the Palisades Parkway approach to the GWB now has one for 25 MPH.
On the GSP (back in the early 90's) you'd get blased if you slowed down too much in the exact change lanes. Most vehicles (including buses) would slow to about 25-30 MPH, fling the token/change into the basket and hit the accelerator. Haven't driven on the GSP in a few years, but that is good news.
I also agree with your statement about speeding up to please others. I know I routinely roll at the limit or above so if someone wants to go fast than the my speed... my feeling is that they need to just go around me. Also - if I'm not moving very fast I won't hange in the left lane or I will move over.
As for moving right if I am going slow, I always do that. I just wish others would as well.
I thought this was only praticed on the Autobahn in Germany to warn u "That I'm Coming Through" but what the hell guess it could happen in America too
-F.
There's nothing wrong with passing on the right on a multilane highway. (Disagree? Find me a single state that prohibits it.) But giving someone the opportunity to pass on the right is a violation of lane courtesy.
Many roads have signs saying STAY RIGHT PASS LEFT but I don't know if those can be enforced by law.
I keep right except to pass. If I'm minding my own business in the right lane, and I come across a slow nincompoop in the middle lane, I'm fully entitled to continue driving at the same speed in the same lane, even if I end up in front of the nincompoop. He, OTOH, has no business being in the middle lane (since, obviously, he isn't passing anybody in the right lane).
Keep right except to pass. If you don't like being passed on the right, that's a good way to guarantee it doesn't happen.
Mike
But there's certainly no reason to stay out of the right lane with no entrances nearby. Changing lanes is easy and safe as long as mirrors and signals are used properly.
Except if you are already going let's say 65 in a 55, left of the right lane. If someone is passing you on the right, they have to be going way faster than the speed limit. I understand what you are trying to say though. If you are left, and people are passing you, you obviously belong in the right lane. This is also something that drives me crazy about some HOV lanes. It's so frustrating when you are driving along in the HOV lane, and all of a sudden come upon someone going like 45 or 50 in the lane. Man is that person being inconsiderate, especially because you are stuck, and you can't pass in that lane. What the hell are they doing in the HOV lane?
That is so obnoxious. When people do that, it makes me want to drive even slower, especially if I am already driving over the speed limit.
Which T.A./O.A. Buses have Detroit Diesal Engines, and which ones have Cummins Engines? Including the Re-powered ones...
I know N.J.T. and the I.B.O.A.'s seem's to be more of a fan of the Cummins Type.
I personally alway's liked the Detroit Deisal's.
Did the 'old' Mack Bus Builder's alway's manufacture their OWN ENGINES?
NJT does however has Detriot Diesel engines to in their mci's and in their demo buses
Buses with Detroit Diesel engines:
All NYCT buses EXCEPT 1995 RTS's #9140-9149 and all Orion VII hybrids
Buses with Cummins engines:
1995 NovaBUS RTS-06 #9140-9149
2003-2005 Orion 07.501 HEV #6365-6689
Any erors in this statement, please correct me, anyone on BusTalk is free to comment...
Incognito
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
MetroB
David
BIG AL
MetroB
MetroB
A very reliable friend of mine advised me that Big Tree will not be closing any time soon. It got a reprieve for about a year and, thus, should still be operating as we speak.
MetroB
Thanx
$121,000 is a great deal of money, but someone who makes that much in the public sector is likely highly regarded enough to be able to make more in the private sector. Therefore, I'd have to say that $121,000 is not excessive for a transit manager (and no, I don't make anywhere near that kind of money).
David
MetroB
David
Peace
David
MetroB
Sucking up? That's the way of the TA. Aside from SLD, nobody that didn't suck up ever got promoted.
Of course it's possible that some NYCT managers got where they are by methods other than hard work and that some of them do not possess basic communication skills. That happens anywhere, public sector or private. I understand the temptation to label all managers as stupid, heartless individuals with nothing better to do than nitpick their employees to death (especially on the operations front, which is somewhat militaristic in the way business is done), and maybe some are that way, but it's unfair to lump us all into that category.
David
How? can you explain?
MetroB
Not unlike my number one job at the TA is CYA, so is everyone elses along and up the food chain.
I'll leave it for others to decide whether a militaristic approach is the correct one, and, if it isn't, what is.
David
SOMEONE please name the supervisory and/or managerial title or titles that should be eliminated or reduced in number of incumbents.
Let's begin with Road Control Superintendents who, instead of ensure the running of surface transportation buses, issue parking violations to the residents of NYC.
In so doing, please explain whether the jobs these people are doing are necessary or not; if not, why not; and if so, who (other than the people currently doing them) should be doing them. For purposes of this exercise, the entire agency can be scrutinized -- operations, maintenance, support, all of it.
Sure. Their job as a Transit Superintendent isn't necessary if they are out doing the work of two other city agencies. While they are away from surface transit operations, surface transit seems to run just fine. Therefore, while they're out feeding the cash cow that is Parking Violations, another unionized TEA or Police Officer isn't necessary. So not only is their job unnecessary, but in performing the duties of the NYPD or NTYCDOT, they make one less lower-level-salaried employees job available.
It is not the job, nor function, nor necessity of the NYCTA to roam the streets of NYC seeking parking violators.
It's easy to sit on the sidelines (or even behind a vehicle's controls) and say that a place is overmanaged, but not so easy to say how.
The place is overmanaged. In many departments, there is 1 manager to every 4 or 5 employees. this is not the epitome of topheavy??
I am contractually alloted 12 accruable sick days annually, yet the TA spends MILLIONS of dollars in policy, agenda and structure to seek, locate and discipline any of us who are apparently away from the call location. The amount the TA brings back as a result of fraudulent sick time in the way of rescinded pay and/or discipline does NOT compensate or equal the amount of money to do so.
We can next move onto Depot AGM's whos sole duty is handling discipline. Some depots have 2 or 3 AGM's, one of which steadfastly and dutifully doles out suspensions. These 3 minute interviews with the offending employee can easily be handled by the other one or two AGM's in the building. With 18 depots, there's a savings of roughly 1.8 million dollars annually. I'm sure it's similar in rapid.
I'm not an outsider looking in, and I'm not observing this from a bus seat. I'm observing this first hand at the locations and see first hand what goes on within the depot. Do you?
It is the job, the function, the necessity of the NYCTA to see to it that bus stops and bus lanes are available for the use of buses. If the NYPD can't keep up, I'm glad somebody else is filling in.
And that's not the issue. The issue is where they can trim the fat. If we employ too many road managers, and must begin to find new ways to justify their existance, while cutting services to the riding public, it defeats our purpose of providing public transportation with minimal waste and maximum service. If we need to justify their existance by performing duties outside the scope of public transportation, then quite simply, we don't need them.
And lastly, it is not the job of the NYCTA to see that bus stops and bus lanes are available for the use of buses. That is the job of the NYCDOT and NYPD.
You know that.
After all, having MTA employees write tickets for the NYPD is a quiet form of state subsidy, no?
Tsk tsk Brooklyn67. You didn't get the memo? We're under Orange alert, so the cops are being given busywork to appease the citizens and Feds alike.
I see. However, this has been going on before September 11 2001. Under which (tongue-in-cheek) memo did this iniative reside at that time? :o
Plus, our beloved NYCDOT now only fills potholes and buys new traffic lights.
It would be nice if they could fix the ones they already have that are so out-of-synch, gazing up the road looks like a christmas tree.
If NYCDOT can't even manage their own bus system, there is NO WAY that they will make life easier for the MTA by doing their jobs.
DOT can manage their own bus system, they just can't afford it :-) They've managed quite well to date, managing to pay their top executives double, triple and in some cases, quadrouple the commensurate salaries for paralell positions within the MTA.
Bravo!
This is how large ferries carrying thousands of people slam into concrete piers.
Ouch..
We make people LOOK busy, but in reality, nothing productive is getting done.
We? ;-)
I think Mr_T will have some words with you for that statement!... LOL
After all, having MTA employees write tickets for the NYPD is a quiet form of state subsidy, no?
And this is where the humor ends. It is exactly a form of subsidy, but it is being performed by an agency that is responsible for it's own agenda. That which does not include citing the citizens of NYC for parking at expired meters, in front of hydrants, in bus stops and beyond.
The point is, if their services must be justified by having them perform duties outside the scope of the MTA, their services are not necessary, hence waste taxpayer money keeping them in title and salary.
All while bus service runs quite well without their services, while on the payroll, citing various parking infractions citywide.
MetroB
I have no problem whatsoever with Superintendents (or managers) writing tickets. The intent is that they write the tickets for bus stop violations (since the vehicle involved in the violation represents a potential danger to NYCT Bus Operators, equipment, and/or customers), but anyone who is authorized to write a parking ticket is authorized to write one for ANY parking infraction in the City of New York, having to do with bus service or otherwise, so there's nothing really wrong with them writing tickets for other violations.
Frankly, I'd like to see Dispatchers authorized to issue tickets, but the logic may be that they're too busy monitoring service to write tickets (the fixed post ones, anyway).
As for the rest of what "Brooklyn67" said, it all sounds like food for thought to me. Sick leave policy is another example of the militaristic approach I was talking about. The most recent TWU contract relaxed the sick leave policy somewhat, concentrating on chronic abusers instead of on everybody. As for discipline, I think "Brooklyn67" will agree that the depot Union representative on the Transportation side spends a great deal of time defending the same few Bus Operators over and over again (I've been told this by a Union representative on the Transportation side), which means that the Management side spends at least the same amount of time going after those same people. Chances are good that the Maintenance side isn't very different. In private industry, these people might not have been hired at all, let alone permitted to keep their jobs.
David
David
I guess the bottom line is that in any title (managerial or otherwise) there will be good eggs and bad eggs. Whether entire titles should be eliminated or combined is not something for me to decide, but what was said is certainly food for thought and I'm glad it was said. There are no hard feelings here -- keep up the good work!
David
Of course, *where* and *what* you manage may be the key. Also key is that you haven't been corrupted by the methodology/mentality of the TA, or you choose otherwise.
I've only come across a very select few that I'd call "gentlemen" above/outside the title of SLD. Howard Ende (GM), Richard Cavalerie (SUPT), Richard Salas (SUPT, Ret.), Bruce Streger (System Safety). I'm sure there are a few others- a handfull or more at best. I'm also sure that there would be some who disagree with me on my selections. Yet, as someone who's neither intimidated by them nor the easiest person in the world to get along with based on my being a union member while they're in management (opposite sides of the fence and all), I've never had a problem with any of them, even while fighting for what I believe to be correct (in whatever instance the situation presented).
Are they friends? Of course not. The difference is, they understand that we're people and treat us (me, specifically) with the respect their title commands from subordinates.
At least, they did/do where I'm personally concerned.
I'm beginning to see you in that light. Even moreso because you're here furnishing information that might not otherwise be available to the general public- within the realm and scope of TA policy.
So... maybe not ALL TA managers are rotten miserable SOB's, but a damn good majority of them are. At least at the service level anyway.
I came up through the ranks, though on the administrative (not operating) end. Fortunately, the people I'm working for now are decent folks who know the job and care about the product that hits the street. They also care about the people who work for them.
(OK, I said it...may I have my merit raise now? < g >)
When Alan Kiepper took over NYCT in 1990, the first thing he did was hire McKinsey & Co. to come in, look at the entire management structure, and recommend changes. Some of the recommendations were implemented, others weren't (unforunately, I don't think I have a copy of the report, so I don't have the specifics handy). Much as consultants are maligned as people who use your watch to tell you what time it is, a set of fresh eyes every once in a while may not be the worst thing in the world.
David
MetroB
:-P
Yes. I had an SLD who thought he could intimidate me. Until I sent a 4 page letter about his actions to his superiors, here and downtown. The next day he was in the office with his union rep, the GM, AGM, my union rep and L/R. The next day he was sweet as pie.
I am not one who is intimidated by management. I do my job, and do it quite well, thank you. I've got the "Atta Boys", "Good Boys" and "Watta Boys" to prove it. Gimme my bus everyday, my check every other Thursday, and leave me the hell alone.
:-)
But he did board the bus, and in full view of passengers proceed to threaten and harass me, whilst leaning over my bar.
I have no problem with being instructed. That's one of the many jobs of the SLD. But when that instruction is unfounded, and in blatant violation of my contract, neither lack of a tape recorder nor union rep willing to interviene will stop me from using my own resources and contacting the proper personnel outside the depot.
Unfortunately, there's problems at most public systems these days. Many in the upper tier of administration have little knowledge of the product (transit service) they are supposed to be managing since transit went into the public sector.
I can't speak for NYC but I am familiar with the situation where I'm at. It's not so much as you described it in your post here but we have an upper management team that has quite literally isolated itself from the transit product. They refuse to understand that you need decent employee relations as well as providing good service that takes people where they want to go if you want people to ride.
We have had promotion after promotion to bring back the riders to the buses backfire and administration just sits there scratching their head wondering why it didn't work. It didn't work because the service we have is outdated, isn't convenient in this day and age with the older routings, many drivers are there just for the paycheck (because the employee relations are so poor) and treat the riders poorly and no amount of promotion is going to lure riders back into that situation.
Many of the people that run systems today just don't have a clue and have no idea on how to use simple common sense. They have their "degree" from some university but are totally incapable of understanding all the problems transit systems face unless it's in a textbook and there rarely is a textbook solution in the real world.
MetroB
MetroB
Are we that inept and incapable? Are we that horrible a workforce that move millions of people safely through some of the toughest neighborhoods, toughest traffic with some of the most subpar equipment one could imagine to warrant the disciplining of over half the entire membership of 3 local unions? Or could it be that NYCT uses discipline as a form of expendature makeup?
When one of my brothers or sisters are written up for wearing a jacket while inside the depot, off the clock, not nearly close to in-service activity, or when one of us is disciplined for having a tie too loosely affixed, or a button on a lapel, something's terribly wrong. Especially when these same idiots run as fast as they can in the opposite direction whenever a problem pertaining to public transportation presents itself.
When I violate the contract, I face suspension and/or fine. When they violate the contract, and they do, it's a paper race to the arbitrator. They lose nothing.
Like Mr. Mabstoa, and in agreement with just about everything he says, I truly abhor the NYCTA, and if it were possible to make the same money elsewhere, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Most of us feel this way. Why? because working for the TA is akin to enlisting in the service. At least, that's how we're treated by management. Which is why Local 100 took a "strike authorization vote" and not an actual "strike vote". They KNEW we would vote to walk, and took that voice away from us by placing that actual strike vote into the hands of the executive board rather than the general membership at-large.
Had they known what a "Strike Authorization Vote" actually was, it would have been voted down in favor of an actual membership strike vote. And to all who say "they'd fire you", I say good riddance.. and hire 40,000 new employees to move your system. I had my bags packed..
MetroB
MetroB
$121,000 is a good salary to retain someone who knows what they are doing. It's too bad that stuffed shirts are filling the position. Maybe you guys can set up an IBOA and save the taxpayers some money:0
MetroB
MetroB
Balance that against some private-sector companies where $121,000 is barely an entry-level salary.
Jim D.
Sometimes the 317 gets busy because of riders between Camden and Mt. Holly, often this bus gets the overflow from the 413. Also on weekday evenings, there is a 2 hour gap between 7:30 and 9:30 on the 413, and the 317 that passes through the Mt. Holly/Moorestown area [around 8:30] pick up a lot of riders between Mt.Holly and Camden.
Many of these old country routes are long established, and people that live in those areas depend on these runs. The light ridership can be quite deceiving. The 10 to 15 passengers per bus per run is quite good for lines with these infrequent headays.
MetroB
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Always will be a funny show.
JG Depot logo kicks ass too. :-)
And yes, the JG patch is the best. 2nd would be GH's, and 3rd would be FP's.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
And Carolina Department of Public Works runs 3 Routes that Loop around certain parts of Carolina and I only know all 3 routes run every 1/2 an hour and all 3 routes meet at the bus stop by the department of Social Security(Where people pick up their food stamps and stuff like that). The buses that are used are 30 Foot Trolly Buses but I have not taken a pic of them. The buses run from M-F 6 AM to 6 PM ONLY. No weekend service :(
Monkmonk438@hotmail.com
There's no direct plane to Mayaguez you have to change at San Juan. The plane they use for the San Juan-Mayaguez Route is the smaller planes and sometimes the bigger planes(Like the Boeing 767 ETC) may be use depending on how many people useing the San Juan-Mayaguez Route on a certain trip.
Also, do you know what other airlines fly to Mayaguez, if any. I know PanAm or some PanAm branch flies to Aguadilla, anything else there either that you know of?
B1-#9177-NOVABUS
Several local airlines operate services within Puerto Rico, including American Eagle, Flamenco and Vieques Air Link, and they have offices either at the Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport, or the Isla Grande airport. There are 4 daily American Eagle flights between San Juan and Ponce. Flamenco Airways flies to Culebra and St Thomas from Fajardo and San Juan. Some charter or inter-island flights leave from the Isla Grande airport
I need info on either Mayaguez or BQN(Aguadilla). So far, all I've found is American Eagle to Mayaguez, and Continental and Northwest to Aguadilla(continental isn't a bad deal though, direct from Newark to Aguadilla for about $170, but I'm not too comfortable with landing at an airport with no tower).
I got American Airlines to Mayaguez but I am going to put down the times that connect with the planes to Mayaguez(You do not need to leave the terminal and go through security and it would be one of the next 4 gates from the plane from JFK). I will E-Mail you the schedule in a Text Format (Like Microsoft Word).
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
Peace,
Kevin
Da Hui
MetroB
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
MetroB
here is the list of what is going and coming.
yukon is getting -6266-6326
yukon is giving cast 1949-1989
also, 4742 is about to be scrapped.
the moving has started of the buses, and 6290, and 6326 are already at yukon. i know this for a fact, since i brought back 6326 and had 6290 earlier today. so no, no more rts's at yukon other then what is there. sorry to burst everyones bubble.
What about 4893-4897 RTS buses & the 1990 RTS buses, are there still at Yukon Depot or have they been transferred to abother depot.
#8689 - B6
#8692 - B6 -LTD _ First Time Sight
Da Hui
Is Qv ever getting those buses back?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
I still remember 624 when, and if, I got that bus on the Q30.
http://www.busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=2440
When I first clicked on the link and saw the pictures, at first glance it reminded me slightly of the Japanese version of the fishbowl that ran up in Canada in the 60's. Mitsubishi-Fuso's were the make and Winnepeg had a batch of those things.
And Look, a double decker version also!
http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=1879
Take a good look at the front and rear end. Strange, eh?
http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=10
Strange, eh?
I remember seeing, in 1975, a postcard from Mexico City, and a bus was in the scene. Looked very much like an RTS but with a school bus rear end!!! The front end was basically a dead ringer for the Daewoo that is in aznboy4305's link!!
9:30AM 7A from Pentagon to Landmark Mall
10:32AM 29N from Landmark Mall to Fairfax Circle
11:15-11:30AM-Fairfax City CUE bus. (This is where things can go any way. We can take the Green 1 to Vienna and take the Gold Route around or vice versa. But in any event, we'd still be able to fit in a few hours of riding the CUE system)
2PM take 1C from Lee Highway and Chain Bridge Road to Fair Oaks Mall
2:17PM Take Fairfax Connector 605 to Reston Town Center
3:00 PM Take two out of the 4 RIBS buses. They all leave at the same time, so we'll take one, come back and take the second one.
5:05 or 5:35PM Take Fairfax Connector 505 back to West Falls Church
6:15PM 28B to King Street
Arrive at King Street and ride DASH About.
There is plenty of time built in to this schedule for lunch breaks/restrooms, etc. We have a solid three hours after arriving at Fairfax Circle to ride the CUE buses, eat, etc.
B1-#8685-TMC
B68-#7567-Orion VII
B68-#597-Orion V CNG
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Since nothing has been submitted to the MTA Board at the December TA Committee meeting does any one know about this.
Any changes have to be submitted for Committee approval or reference
Thank You
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
MetroB
I am thoroughly convinced that everyone on the highways I was driving on last night made the same New Year's resolution: "Drive faster than I did last year." Traffic moved significantly faster last night than it did on December 27 when I drove to Upstate New York and and on December 31 when I drove to Southbury, CT. Traffic last night was heavier than on the other two days in question, meaning people should have slowed down. Did they? Of course not. Has the Autobahn been expanded into the United States? Wait a moment. We can't associate ourselves with our German allies anymore since they didn't want to bomb the hell out of Iraq, but that's another story.
The reason I bring this up on this forum is because most of the people who post here drive, either professionally, out of necessity for daily living, or both. It is unsafe and creates problems which plauge our roads and highways. To make matters worse, I saw two bus drivers yesterday driving in what I consider to be an unprofessional fashion. Sure, you have passengers to get to a place on a schedule, but what about safety? You can't flash your highbeams in the rearview mirror of the minivan in front of you and pass cars going above the speed limit at an even higher speed on the right. It simply isn't necessary or a good thing to do.
Before anyone questions how far over the speed limit I was, I was in excess of 5 MPH most of the trip yesterday and last week and in excess of as much as 20 MPH at times. I was passed on the right by two buses when I was going about 65 MPH in a 55 MPH zone and the other cars were going about as fast as I was. Also, on the 27th, a car going about 80 MPH passed me on the Garden State. I was doing about 65, which was the speed limit where I was (near Montvale Service area). I also got tailgated while going on a sharp curve above the reccomended speed as I was coming off the Deleware Memorial Bridge. Someone really cares about their safety. I guess this person didn't realize a minivan with a Thule rack is somewhat top heavy.
Many people complain about driving, traffic, and commuting. Why don't we all resolve to make our roads a better place for everyone? Resolve to let at least one car a day merge in front of you. Resolve to drive at about the same speed as the other cars. Resolve not to tailgate. For those of you who do not get the Washington Post, I encourage you to read Dr. Gridlock's column on www.washingtonpost.com. The link will direct you to his page on the washingtonpost.com site. His column runs every Sunday and Thursday and you can read columns from the past two weeks online. I also invite people to comment on this post.
Thanks for reading and have a happy new year!
So i'm traveling eastbound, and i'm in a line of cars passing this one truck, but not by much. This wannabe racecars goes to the right, "around" a landscaping truck(by around I mean he decided to get into his lane before he was passed him thereby making the truck brake onto the shoulder). Now of course, as always, this creap is behind me. You know what he does? He goes in the middle, like he's going to squeeze on the line between my car or the truck. Natuarally I let my foot off the gas and see what the little you know what does. I was hopeing for a fast and furious manuever under the truck but nothing.
Enough of my story of the day. But, yea,I haven't seen things go this smoothy in maybe, ever on the highway.
Also, 80 on the GSP is normal.
75+ on the NJT is normal too.
I seen greyhound buses go 70-80.
Furthermore, many states are asking to INCREASE speed limits hoping this will help reduce traffic jams. They often state speed doesn't kill when the numbers prove just the opposite. The traffic jams are a result of too many cars on the road and increasing the speed limit will only see more accidents.
And dont' get me started on the morons who do 40 in the 55 on reg roads. There's this one area where they go about 60 in the 45, but they just can't muster to go faster than 40 on the 55 roads, makes me insane.
Any information would be greatly appreciated and NO NONSENSE POSTS PLEASE!!!
I'm sure he's going to reply to this topic with a question about the Yukon Depot in Staten Island.
Oh yeah...PANTY HOSE. There..now it's a No Nonsense post. :)
-F.
By the way, how would Washington's horse be in the third scheme if the Department of Transportation had yet to be created? Metro would have had funding issues larger than the ones it has today.
I am one of the shortest route in a particular borough. I was once in the top 5 of the pokiest bus routes. I biker actually beat me in a race!!! I run through the streets of New Brighton. I have a second branch during rush hours. Which bus route am I?
I am one of the longest route in a particular borough. I have these two piece buses and a few of those round ones as well. I run to that heart of Harlem. Which bus route am I?
I used to have comfortable seats but no place for the standing passengers. I used to run out of Yukon. Then the evil MTA transfered me into a hard seat bus. What have they done?? I am one of those square buses. Which bus am I???
Answers at 10:45, tonight.
I think the first one is the B1 but I really don't know.
No clue on the third.
Suggestion: Give more time before giving the answers. Many people won't see the thread before you post the answers. I generally do 24-48 hours before posting answers.
"I am one of the longest route in a particular borough. I have these two piece buses and a few of those round ones as well. I run to that heart of Harlem. Which bus route am I?"
M101
"I used to have comfortable seats but no place for the standing passengers. I used to run out of Yukon. Then the evil MTA transfered me into a hard seat bus. What have they done?? I am one of those square buses. Which bus am I???"
1993 O5 Suburban 156
For those that don't know
O5=OrionV
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
I used to have comfortable seats but no place for the standing passengers. I used to run out of QV. I then got transfered into a hard seat bus. I am often found on the Q20A and Q32. I am one of those square buses. Which bus am I???
-Should make things a little easier.
#2 is M15.
#3 Don't know.
1)S42
2)M15
3)Orion V (ex-suburban) #146
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
For extra credit, why is this bus as it is?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
David
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
http://www.busstation.net/screen/screen.htm
The webmaster is always looking for additions, corrections and updates.
Da Hui
BIG AL
In his next act, a week from now, he'll post "Big Al Leaves The Pond". Stay tuned for details.
BIG AL
Good luck wherever you go. I'm sure I can guess as to the reasons you're leaving and not returning, but that's best left off the boards. Especially when you use your real name here.
Which in itself is a shame. You could add a wide variety of insult to the already injured that lies below in the "TA Management Bashing" thread :-)
I may be in Brooklyn this week visiting family. I'll try and stop by and see you on the road.
What are you hours @ 86th and Stillwell Ave. I might try to stop by on my way to work if I have time to.
Robert
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Can you post on what changes will take effect this day on both the X17 & X22 routes.
The number escapes me at the moment, but I'm certain it was in the 472x range.
Ray
I can't wait to see your answers. Have fun with this one!
-Fred
-F.
-F.
-Fred
Channel 7 had something on their 6 o'clock news last night about service. The people on the streets, their funny to listen to. Pretty dumb, but that's what the media looks for in order to slam a system. One person said they have to keep directing the drivers because they don't know their route. Of course I say this just days after we boarded a B30 at BWI and he had to ask the passengers in the front how to get out of the airport. But, other than that, I don't recall seeing passengers directing drivers around.
Other than some good old skool buses, WMATA is nothing to write home about.
So all of the Metro Ds and Es are in the third scheme? What a shame. They looked SO good in the original colors, especially the Es. Oh well....hopefully they won't paint any more of them.
-F.
I doubt you can spend 15 minutes in Silver Spring and not see one.
-F.
-Fred
-F.
Is Texas Hots still in business, and if so, is the bus still used?
Inquiring minds want to know!
-Fred
Buses #8778-8806 are at West Farms, as well as #9226-9228.
Buses #6054-6090 are at Mother Clara Hale, and the 6110s to Gun Hill.
The 8000s that WF had are either in storage or at other garages such as ENY or at KB for storage.
The Orion VIIs are being taken out of service due to computer problems and such, and the delivery has been halted temporarily, and the problem is being worked on...
Also note that many of the artics at WF are being taken OOS for problems and defects.
This comes from a credible source.
Any corrections, errors, and comments welcome.
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
And what the hell is 6054-6090 doing at MCH!?!?!?You cant possibly be telling me that those are the extras for the M2!Ohhh man this is getting crazy!And same thing goes with the 6110's at GH?THEY DONT NEED BUSES!THEY'LL ONLY FUCK EM UP LIKE YUKON DOES TO THIERS!
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
My Apology
Incognito
I betcha the 1070-1109 group had problems while at KB that many of us don't know about or don't remember...it might not be the Farms' fault...
5510-5530 were at 126th the first time they came in, but who knew the buses had defects left and right originally, and then were fixed later on? Why do you think the first 50 buses didn't come in as fast as the rest of this order?
As for the Orion VIIs, I am guessing that Gleason is having the same problems as well with their fleet as both Gleason and the Farms are getting road calls with these buses, they are just dropping like flies! I only saw one Orion VII today, and a few others in service elsewhere in WF teritory....
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
MetroB
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Any corrections, errors, comments, please feel free to post...
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
Peace,
Kevin
Incognito
Peace,
Kevin
You never care about the Bronx changes...you never care about the Bronx, yet you always complain about our buses...
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
Can you believe it's 2004 already!!!
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
MetroB
Incognito
By the way, GUN HILL!! I GUN HILL!! They took CS' orions, now WF's Orions!!! With all their artics, they don't need anymore buses. The artics may be crap, but that's what they deserve!
Bx31 7675,9123,1076
Bx16 EX WF 6117
Other people DO. I've said so before and I'll say it again now. PLEASE -- anyone who curses on the board, please stop. It adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and makes the writer look juvenile, no matter what his or her age may be.
David
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Da Hui
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
MetroB
Da Hui
BIG AL
Da Hui
Peace
David
It really is sad to go there and see the mall so empty on a Saturday. The Saturday before Christmas was the busiest that I've seen it in awhile and it wasn't that mobbed. The parking lot was a disaster with buses taking up to an hour to get in and out of there. The 25B was useless that day. The one that I took from Ballston arrived to Landmark around 4 and normally would just go to Van Dorn Metro and arrive back at 4:25 didn't get back to Ballston until 7:15. I had taken an alternative way home that night and my 10B pulled in the same time as that guy.
The old food court wasn't all that bad. Not sure what the mall management is thinking. The first floor by Sears is so weird looking with all those shadow boxes advertising the new food court, which isn't much more than a Burger King and Subway right now.
These old time malls such as Landover and Landmark just can't compete anymore. They are in areas that maybe once were populated by those that didn't have cars or had older people that shopped there. But with everyone having multiple cars, bigger and better malls not so far away and Potomac and Arundel Mills not so far away, its siphoning away any potention customers.
NYCT?
SEPTA?
NJT?
WMATA?
LACMTA?
You can include ALL transit vehicles, past and present.
SEPTA: currently #7255--'01 Neoplan AN460 (former highest was #8825(?), a 1980s Neoplan AN440A-DK)
NJT: currently #9601--'03 Neoplan AN455
WMATA: currently #9835--'93 Flx Metr-D
LACMTA: currently #7999--'03 NABI 40C-LFW Compobus
MBTA: currently #8999--'89 TMC RTS-06
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
Highest WMATA Rail car is to be 5191 following the delivery of the CAFs but I don't know what the higest numbered car on the property or in servce is. With the arrival of the 6000s, the highest numbered car should be 6061 provided no options are taken. The lowest is 1000. But no rail car has these numbers: 1300 through 1999, 2100 through 2999, 3290 through 3999, and 4100 through 4999.
Somewhere in the archives is a thread that explains how WMATA numbered its buses since the consolidation in 1973.
Command:#4978-TMCRTS(ex MTA NYC Bus #8398)
Green:#5550-Orion V(one of the WMATA "rejects")
Triboro: #3072-Orion V CNG
Jamaica:#3854-TMCRTS
Queens Surface:#580-Orion V CNG
LIBUS: #394-Orion V CNG(More to come)
Miami-Dade Transit: 9993 (1999 NABI 40-LFW)
(This might possibly be one of the highest 4-digit numbers
assigned to a transit vehicle in the US)
Broward County Transit: 9935 (1999 Gillig Advantage)
BTW, since you mentioned past and present, a few from LACMTA:
The highest numbered bus ever OWNED and OPERATED by MTA (and
predecessor SCRTD): 9921 (the last of 20 1981 Neoplan doubledeckers
which operated 1981-1985.
The highest numbered bus ever OPERATED but not OWNED by MTA:
9944 (the last of 5 MC-9 coaches leased by MTA in early 1994
for use on a special express route in the aftermath of the
Northridge earthquake (the 646 for those of you in the L. A.
area) I actually rode one of these, just me, the driver and
one other person.
Green Bus Lines had (and may still have) an RTS numbered 10001.
The highest recent fleet number at QSC was MCI Classic 954, but I'm reasonably sure that Queens Transit had fishbowls with higher numbers in the 9xx series.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Maspeth depot is currently on hold due to a dispute involving land around the proposed site. Conrail or some railroad company claims to own part of the land and if they win in court---no Maspeth depot!
Not all the 1993 TMC's have raised side destination signs. I caught 8555 the other day still sporting a lower side destination sign.
Some 1990 TMC's are in fact still getting repowered and repainted. 1 8000 in FP just came in with both. Sorry, but I forgot the number.
I'll be working at 86th st and Stillwell ave from 11am - 7pm Saturday and Sunday starting tomorrow 1/4. See you out there!
BIG AL
Callowhill: 10 (tentative, upon completion of Light Rail restorarion to Girard Avenue), 15, 21, 30, 31, 38, 40, 42, 43, 44, 46, 52, 64, 65, 121 (recently lost Route G)
Frontier: 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 118, 124/125, 127, 128, 129, 120, 131, 133, 201, 204, 206 (Regional Rail connection routes), 304, 310, 311 (the Breezes), Cornwells Heights Shuttle, WHIRL
Victory: 100 (NHSL facility adjacent to depot), 101, 102 (in 69th Street Shops), 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117/119, 118, 120, 122, 123, 124/125
Southern: C, G, 2, 7, 12, 17, 23, 29, 37, 47m/47, 57, 64, 68, 79, 108
Frankford: J, K, R, 1, 3, 5, 8, 18, 25, 26, 28, 59, 66, 70, 73, 75, 89
Comly: 1, 14, 19, 20, 24, 58, 67, 84, 88
Allegheny: 9, 27, 33, 48, 54 (unsure of this, but they've been using 60-foot articulated Neoplans on this sporadically), 60, 65
Midvale: Only SURE of the following: 2, 6, 18, 22, 23, 32, 35, 39, 47m/47, 53, 55, 56, 57, 61, 77, 80, 89
I'm not really sure WHO actually has the 25 and 28, nor if the 33 and 54 are the sole property of Allegheny, or split with Midvale. Also only semi-sure on Comly's routes; lastI recall, they split the 1 with Frankford, who split the R and 89 with Midvale... can anyone help?
The 25 is out of Frankford.
The 33 is Allegheney - 100% artic
The 54 is split between Allegheney and Midvale
The 89 is Midvale - this line uses Eldorados [most of the time]
The 28 issplit between Midvale and Comly.
Allegheny: 6, 9, 27, 33, 48, 54*, 60, 65*
Callowhill: 15, 21, 30, 31, 38, 40, 42, 43, 44, 46, 52, 65, 121 (64 also went to Southern with the G)
Comly: 1*, 14, 19*, 20, 24, 28, 58, 67*, 70, 84, 88*
Frankford: 1*, 3, 5*, 8, 19*, 25, 59, 66, 67*, 73, 75, 88*, J, K, R
Midvale: 2*, 18, 22, 23*, 26, 32, 35, 39, 47*, 53, 54*, 55, 56, 57*, 61, 77, 80, 89, C*, H, L, XH
Southern: 2*, 5*, 7, 12, 17, 23*, 29, 37, 47*, 47m, 57*, 64, 68, 79, 108*, C*, G
Victory (Red Arrow): 100-120, 122, 123, 124/125*, 305
Frontier: 91-99, 124/125*, 127-131, 133, 201, 206, 304
* Split depot operation; 108 split between Red Arrow and Southern
CONTRACT OPERATIONS:
Trenton-Philadelphia Coach (stored and assigned to Germantown Depot): 310, 311, 316 (Lucy), Cornwells Heights
Keystone Quality Transport (Media): 314
Krapf's (West Chester): 204, 207 (Whirl)
It's possible that there could be changes in February when the new schedules take effect, but it's not likely. Most major depot changes - if there are any - take place in June or September.
Oh... the guesses come partly because of a 1993 City Division RTS II destination sign manual I happen to have. I noticed, RTS II buses NEVER used any signs for routes exclusive to Southern, Frankford, or Comly because those districts never used them. However, the manual DOES include the 25, so I figured it to be half Midvale property, formerly that of Luzerne. And... the 5 is still split? I thought Southern cut that route from its jurisdiction after the Great Route Reorganizing (1990s, when the 47 moved to 7th Street, the 57 took over the 50 and the South Phiadelphia porion of the 5, and the 89 took over the P and the old 57 crosstown segment)
Midvale: 2*, 18, 22, 23*, 26...
Hm? When did THIS happen? It makes sense, what with the 18 and 26 running roughly the same route along Olney Avenue... did Frankford trade the 26 to Midvale for the 25? I recall seeing the 26 on a Frankford transfer once.
(64 also went to Southern with the G)
WHAT??? When did the 64 go? I talked to an operator about the splits, and he mentioned the G going all Southern to make room in Callowhill for the 10 trolley's equipment (mind you, with only the PCC's for the 15, they could have kept the G, so he says)... but the 64 was still split Callowhill/Southern... and that discussion was on December 29th, 2003.
A few things about the splits confuse me...
12: Why not half Callowhill?
7: I'm surprised that Allegheny/Luzerne/Midvale NEVER had half of this route; it runs in their territory.
65: Why half Allegheny, when it never used artics before? Given the discontinued Broad & Erie segment, it seems more like it'd be half Luzerne/Midvale...
54: Why split it? I've seen artics at Midvale several times, I assume they have bays for them, and the 54 doesn't use them ALL the time.
5: Why's it still split?
18: This was also once on a Frankford transfer... did they just swap everything around when the Neoplan artics started arriving? I figured Midvale would handle the artics it uses (though, with the amount Route 18 uses, it should likely be Allegheny), and Frankford would handle the 40-foot equipment.
25: Not half Southern? Even with the Pier 70 extension? Strange...
But, despite my questions, I appreciate the information you compiled.
Thanks!
7- Originally half Southern and Half Allgheney. In 1980 it was briefly all Allegheney [using RTS's] then went all-Southern.
65- Originally half-Luzerne, half-Callowhill. In the 70's the Luzerne half was transferred to Germantown since Germantown was closer[10 blocks from the depot at Westview st to the start at Chelten Ave], when Germantown was closed as an active bus depot, their portion went to Allegheney.
54-this route was all over the place. Originally it was all Allegheney, then all Luzerne/Midvale, then split between Allegheney and Frankford, then all Frankford, and now split between Allegheney and Midvale.
5- I do not know. The original Frankford-Southern split made sense. Then in the early 80's, Frankford's portion went to Comly, and went back to Frankford in the 90's. After the re-organization, there should be no need for Southern to run any part of this line.
18- this route was split between Frankford and Germantown [back in the day when it was the S bus]. Germantown's portion went to Luzerne/Midvale in '92, and stayed until recently when artics was introduced on this route.
25-until they tacked on all of the extensions, this was a Luzerne route because Luzerne had most of the small buses needed to run the route.[Back in the day you saw mostly 1200 series GM and Flxes on the line. Later the 4400 RTS's ran the line along with the 1300 Neoplans]
Before Allegheny became all-artic in 1999-2000, the 54 was moved to Midvale. Shortly thereafter, the 54 was split between Midvale and Frankford. Once the FTC/Frankford Depot construction began, Frankford's portion of the 54 went back to Midvale. It wasn't until last year that Allegheny picked up parts of the 54 again, sharing with Midvale.
What of the 26? That's REALLY Midvale's now? No split? No more 18 split either?
And what, out of sheer curiosity, DID Germantown have before it closed? I'm guessing it had half the 23 (the other half Luzerne, since Southern's got an allergy to trolleys...) and maybe the L, H and X (77), aside from its half of Routes E and S (65 and 18, respctively)
Oh, re: 108 split. Made, IIRC, because the portion between Elmwood Avenue and Philadelphia Int'l Airport was originally run by Route U, which was all-Southern. The portion between Elmwood Avenue and 69th Street Terminal was all-Victory. And now, thanks to the CTD/STD split of Route 108, it's a complete mess (Victory's trips are usually early, Southern's usually late... been getting a BIT better, though)
Then in the 80's Germantown had the following routes 4, 18, 22, 55, 65, H/XH, L, X. That line up remained until the depot was closed in 1992. The 4 was abandoned [replaced by the 201], the 18 was split between Luzerne and Frankford until the artics arrived, and the portion of the 65 went to Allegheny.
Then in the 80's Germantown had the following routes 4, 18, 22, 55, 65, H/XH, L, X. That line up remained until the depot was closed in 1992. The 4 was abandoned [replaced by the 201], the 18 was split between Luzerne/Midvale and Frankford until the artics arrived, and the portion of the 65 went to Allegheny.
SEPTA's confusing... why didn't Germantown/Luzerne have a piece of the 26 in more recent years?
Also, Volvo artic #7011, in new paint scheme, was spotted parked in Allegeheny today... do they even USE that anymore??? and what became of the ONE 40-foot Volvo they had?
From what I recall, a press release about the artics stated that they'd be ordered to replace and add to the (then) existing Volvo fleet. They'd be first implemented on Routes 9, 27, 48, 60, and introduced on Routes 33 and 65... as the fleet expanded, they were to be used on Routes C, 6, 14, 18, 22, 47, and 55... I don't recall the 54 being in the statement, though I had heard rumors that it'd be getting some artic action as well...
The 20 needs them, but I doubt they could handle the Keswick Road trips, or the route along Mechanicsville Road... I'm pretty sure the 14 would have no problems with them, and that goes for the 47 also...
And... why not add artic bays to Victory, and toss a few on the 104, 109, and 113? Just a FEW, not as many as Allegheny has...
Strange you mention that... a friend of mine used to work from Allegheny, and from what he tells me, the R used to use Volvos from time to time.
Why the "b" option? The 1 ran the same route as the 65 from Wissahickon Transfer Center to 69th Street Terminal until they cut the portion west of 54th & City. Yet, AFAIK, It was never split with Callowhill; 1 was Frankford/Comly. So, why didn't the 1 split between Comly and Callowhill, yet the 65 split between Callowhill and... Luzerne, then Germantown, then Allegheny? Something doesn't add up there. All in all, there's got to be something Callowhill can trade for its half of the G. Making that route all Southern when quite a few trips don't go past 63rd & Lindbergh seems odd.
Note to those not familiar with the 52: The base route is between 49-Woodland and 54-City Av; peak hour trips to Parkside operate via 52 St to Jefferson, then stay on 52 St to Parkside Av en route to the loop.
RE. The G:
Only a handful of G trips end at Lindbergh or Woodland - these are generally school trippers which are still at Callowhill, for now. With the exception of these few trips, every G bus operates to the Food Center at 7-Packer. The issue with the G being entirely assigned to Southern is the fact that Callowhill is right down the street from Overbrook Station and Lankenau Hospital (some G buses serve the hospital; most terminate at Overbrook Station).
Your 52/12 mixing idea is a good one... though THIS intrigues me... I asked a CTD operator to punch in code 253 on a Neoplan (at the time, I didn't know CTD and Suburban Division used separate sets of codes; was hoping for "114 CHESTER - 9-HIGHLAND"). He did, and THIS came up...
"12 PENNS LANDNG"
Something SEPTA just forgot to put to use? My 1991 Neoplan/Volvo sign manual is full of omitted code numbers... some of which are probably for extensions we'll never see (or are seeing now... mind you, there's a significant gap between "40 13th St - SOUTH St" and the first 42 sign... enough perhaps for a Route 41... and note, the sign for "40 Ford Rd - MONUMENT Rd" isn't there... but it's in my 1993 RTS manual... I wonder just what SEPTA's been hiding besides a potential run to Penn's Landing for the 12...
Oh, and again, most of my confusion on the assignments is that routes omitted from/included in the RTS manual are now in districts that'd use/not have them were they still around... The RTS manual does NOT have signs for Routes J, K, 1, 3, 5, 7, 8 Express, 12, 14, 16 (it existed then), 17, 19, 20, 24, 26, 29, 37, 58, 59, 66, 67, 68, 70, 75, 79, 84 or 88, and probably missing some 400 series routes. But, it DOES have Routes 50, 57 (Fern Rock/29th & Jefferson route, AND Fern Rock/Whitman Plaza Route), and 89 (Front & Erie/Tioga & Delaware route, AND Arrott Terminal/29th & Jefferson route)... strange...
David
David
Conversion factor - 3.280833333 feet equals one meter.
So in the future you can do the calculation yourself.
The lengths given typically do not include safety equipment, namely the bumpers which add a bit of length to the vehicle. The bodies are 40, 45 & 60 foot lengths though.
For example, MCI 102DL3 operators would sometimes be hassled at the tollbooths along I-80 in Ohio because there is equipment there that measures the length of the vehicles and they were counting the bumpers in with the length, making them longer than the maximum 45 feet. Mirrors, another piece of safety equipment are also allowed to extend out beyond the 45 foot maximum length.
Mike
Michael
Washington, DC
David
happy now busfan, the ta was so tired of hearing your stupid questions, that got rid of these buses, good job, be proud of yourself.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
David
Seriously, Busfan is partially right, as the X23 and X24 are named as X-buses (instead of AE1 and AE2, their original names) because they ARE supposed to become part of the MTA system when a new South Shore facility is constructed. Simply put, it's not ready and the lines may be rebid to give the MTA another 2-3 years. The MTA cannot add any additional buses on Staten Island. This was confirmed by a reputable source that currently monitors their operation and this confirmation was made in fall 2002.
I do hope the routes are re-bid this summer. I have a strong preference for the X24, but it is likely that whoever gets one gets both. I believe that a reactivated Showplace Park & Ride facility would allow the service span of both lines to be increased dramatically. I won't be allowed anywhere near Showplace again unless at least one of those lines wears my colors.
Da Hui
Da Hui
Greyhound should look into it b/c it could open up a new passenger market. New routes to the cape, Boston, central Ma, upstate NY, even New Hampshire
So, what does everyone think?
Would there be enough demand (if properly publicized)for this service to be profitable?
After a car is parked on the ferry, all passengers exit the vehicle and go upstairs to a lounge area for the journey. When the boat is approaching the dock, everyone returns to the vehicle and starts it up.
Once on the New London-Orient Point Ferry two tractor trailer trucks were loaded on. They, however were the last ones put on the boat and parked in the middle lanes. When the boat docked on LI, they were one of the first ones off. Assuming the bus would be put there, would the dwell time for the vessel be increased due to the extra time to unload, then load (doing a head count) the bus. Of course more customers at the snack bar in the boat's lounge would be a plus for the ferry company.
The one troubling thought is that while the ferry company would love the extra revenue during slow times, the boats are sold out during holday and summer periods. Therefore, if I wanted to take a boat to a spot, not served by the hound, I might not get on the boat at peak times.
Also how would Bridgeport, Port Jeff, New London and Orient Point react to bigger vehicles plying their roads?
On the bright side, if this would force the PJ-BP ferry company to run later boats (last one leaves CT at 9:30PM) I would be in favor of it. I could go to PJ, have dinner, walk-on the boat, and go to a minor league baseball and hockey games in Bridgeport without having to drive up there.
I don't know. I'm hoping some kind of lower fare deal could be worked out. I wonder what Hampton Jitney pays.
"Would there be enough demand (if properly publicized)for this service to be profitable?"
Well, if buses would be originating in NYC, then I'm pretty sure it would be. As of now, the NYC-Boston buses are full within the 90% area. Having a local Long Island route continuing to Boston would be great, and would probably get a few Suffolk County drivers off the roads.
"After a car is parked on the ferry, all passengers exit the vehicle and go upstairs to a lounge area for the journey."
Passengers on Greyhound would definately appreciate this chance to get out and stretch their legs. It's like the buses to Boston that now stop at Roy Rogers in North Haven, except it's a much longer time off the bus. The only time passengers wouldn't appreciate this is in the rain.
"Assuming the bus would be put there, would the dwell time for the vessel be increased due to the extra time to unload, then load (doing a head count) the bus."
I doubt ferry dwell times would be increased, and if it did, it probably wouldn't be more than 2-3 minutes extra. Also, there is no head count on Greyhound at rest stops. They make an announcement, wait 5 minutes, and roll out. Considering it's on the ferry, and you don't have to have to much of an IQ to know that when they say, all passengers on Greyhound bus such and such to Boston(or w/e destination) must now board, that they are supposed to do so.
"if I wanted to take a boat to a spot, not served by the hound, I might not get on the boat at peak times."
First, it is doubtful that you wouldn't find a location more than 25 miles from a Greyhound/Bonanaza or any other bus line stop. However, you are right. It is possible though to schedule buses to limit their use of the ferry at peak hours. If I were in charge of Greyhound, I'd be aiming for buses to Boston from NYC via LI every 2.5 hrs.
"Also how would Bridgeport, Port Jeff, New London and Orient Point react to bigger vehicles plying their roads?"
Bridgeport is already a major Greyhound stop. I believe the buses stop at the ferry terminal/train station, so impact wouldn't be much different if anything. Port Jeff already has trucks goin through, and now Hampton Jitney, so again, they are used to these size vehicles. Same story with Orient Point. Trucks are already using the ferry, and the north fork is served by Sunrise Coach, another bus company.
Currently Greyhound takes 2 hours just to go from NYC to Huntington -- figure it would be 2:45 to go to Port Jeff, throw in :15 to make the ferry connection and then 1:15 to cross the sound and you're in Bridgeport 4 hours and 15 minutes after you leave NYC. On a direct bus, the NYC-Bridgeport trip takes 2 hours. So taking LI and the ferry slow you down by more than 2 hours.
As far as people using the service from Long Island you still have a similar problem. From most of Nassau (and even western Suffolk), the time lost by going east, then taking a slow boat that goes west makes the ferry pretty useless if you're concerned about time.
The service that the Hampton Jitney is running makes a bit more sense, since it has to go west from the Hamptons anyway. I was surprised that they're not using the Orient Point ferry, though. I guess they didn't think they'd have enough ridership staying that far out.
CG
As far as HJ taking the PJ ferry instead of the OP ferry, it may be a matter of time. Once the bus reaches Riverhead, how long does it take to get to PJ rather than Orient Point? This question assumes that the OP route, if implemented, would take North Road rather than Main Road through all the little towns, such as Cutchogue.
Also by going to BP it is easier to head east to I-91 to Boston rather than taking 95 from New London.
I'll check the sunrise schedule later. Really, they have no factor in this, but the north fork really does need more service. Especially on the weekend. In the summer, the 2 car LIRR's are packed beyond capacity, and I bet the buses are pretty full too.
I've been hearing things about MJQ
MetroB
And the Bx7 should be extended
The M100 runs with the M101 south of 161 St and Amsterdam Av,
since the M101 moved to 100 St depot it switched to artics
service is much more frequent even during the weekends, at times I think the M101 gets to much service. The only time the M101 buses are
too crowded are during the rush hours at other times there are plenty of seats. That is why the M100 should only run weekdays. Since so many of the M101 buses run to 96 st or 125 st during the evening there would be no need for more M101 buses. North of
161 st the M100 runs with the M3 to 168 St then the rest of the route
it runs along the Bx7. My next idea is that the Bx7 should be extended
to 161 st and Amsterdam Av and should have a little more service.It would be a easy transfer to the M101.
If this could happen there would be no more M100 service because it
would not be needed.
What do you guys think?
Historical footnote - the M100 was Manhattan's last trolley route, converted to bus in June 1947. The trolley route went from 125th and Third Ave. to 230th and Broadway; for many years the M100 buses had the exact same terminals. Beginning around 1963 the M100 was extended into Riverdale (239th St), going all the way to 261st St. by around 1970. Then the M100 was cut back in recent years to almost its old route.
And if they cant make the switch have the M101 turn on 168 St then
turn on Broadway then down 165 St to Amsterdam Av. It is possible.
Da Hui
1. Organize a trip that YOU want to do.
2. Get a few friends interested in it before you go public.
3. Pick a date a time convient to you & your friends.
4. Give others 2 or 3 weeks notice.
5. Be willing to make some comprises to accomodate everyone.
Now, you & your friends are going to have an enjoyable trip AND who ever else shows up will become your new friends. That has always been the icing on the cake for me. I'm thinking of a couple of very close friends that I first met in this way.
One of the trips that I never quite pulled off was a SIRT/MCI Cruiser trip. Was going to take the ferry to rail line & half way back going to catch an Express bus back to Manhattan.
January 19, MLK monday, I'll probally get to ride PATH from World Trade Center & see the new HBLR station, but then maybe it will be something different, haven't done #2 yet.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
busfan, dont ask me anything
Da Hui
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
If so.... *thumbs up*
Da Hui
MetroB
Recently, during the heavy rainstorm NYC had, I was observing Stengel's older Orions on Union Street, and I couldn't even see the front sign when I was right next to the bus! Damn those flipdots.
As for the orange LED, I remember when Stengel had 522, which USED to have an orange LED sign, and I had no problem seeing it from a distance, even during the day time.
I'm suprised I made it out of WF today alive and well.I thought I was gonna faint from seeing ex MV buses in WF.It didn't help that I got 8778 for my 2nd half of my run today! >.< Had 9123 first half on the run BTW.
Da Hui
Da Hui
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
B44 Nova Bus #5076
B65 C40LF #858
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Here's the most logical plan of what do with the three North Shore bus lines that run near the railroad for any appreciable portions of their routes:
First, the S40 would need to be eliminated entirely since the tracks run right along Richmond Terrace all the way from the St. George ferry terminal to Richmond Avenue, at which point the tracks gradually draw away from Richmond Terrace.
Next, the S46 would need to be moved off of Walker St. as the tracks are only about a block away from Walker St. west of Morningstar Road; plus riders along Richmond Terrace in Elm Park and Mariners Harbor would need to be compensated for the loss of the S40. The most plausible solution would be to have the S46 turn north off of Castleton Ave. onto Nicholas Ave. (Port Richmond High School is only half a block from this intersection), then proceed to Richmond Terrace, on which the S46 would remain until South Avenue, where it would proceed straight down South Avenue as it does now; on return trips to St. George, the 46 would make the Arlington/Holland Avenue loop currently traversed by the S48.
The S48 would need to be rerouted as well, to pick up the western end of the S40's route; to do this, the S48 would simply run the entire length of Forest Avenue (instead of turning onto South Ave. as it presently does) and then proceed along Goethals Road North (Gulf Avenue on the return trip) to Western Ave. to the Howland Hook area (there was actually a Port Ivory stop on the original North Shore Rail line, which was eliminated several years before the entire line went out of operation in 1953; perhaps the new terminus of the S48 could be located at this station if it is rebuilt; many plans, however, call for the North Shore trains to go out only as far as Arlington, at South Avenue).
The point is that all this has to be well thought out; if not, the restored trains won't catch on with the riding public and the whole idea will fall apart.
Not true my friend. At this depot we get a lot of dollar coins, the golden version was the ticket that has made it work.
Robert
It's no different from when the MTA combined the old #5 with the old #104 (the present S52).
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
=)
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
WhyMATA?
Saturday, I also spotted some of the Metro D's being used on No. Va routes at the Pentagon. That is getting to be very rare that you see a D out on the weekends here in VA.
Well since Castleton Depot got 40 MCI buses from Yukon & a few (not sure)MCI from Jamaica & the remaining Orion surburbans from Yukon, which makes about 50 all together, why not send another express bus route to Castleton from Yukon because Castleton Depot gave ip alot of Orion buses (60 buses)to Yukon Depot for it's local routes & Castleton Depot got less buses from Yukon Depot & I just read in article in the SI Advance back in the Summer 2003 that NYCT was planning to buy 25 more MCI buses, if there are plans to buy 25 more MCI buses, these buses can go to Castleton for another express route to come over from Yukon & if the X23 & X24 are taken over by NYCT in the forseeable future, use the current MCI buses that are parked at the Park-n-Ride & use them on both the X23 & X24 routes (which would come out of Yukon Depot).
Why do people think that we lie when we say that there is NO SPACE FOR ADDITIONAL BUSES! All of those buses you see sitting in the Park & Ride could cover MAYBE 3 routes tops during the week. These are not extra buses. These are buses that can't be parked in the depot, on the streets around the deopt, or in the overflow lot on Forest Hill Road. Frankly, I think that one or two more routes should be privatized because I can't imagine how Yukon and Castleton maintain all of those buses.
The X23 and X24 won't go to the MTA without a third depot. As needed as the X22 is, this pretty much absorbed any flexibility Staten Island had for operating buses. The only way new routes can be created is by combining and/or shortening routes to free up equipment.
I would like to see the lower X17 portion become the X21 and start at Richmond Avenue & Arthur Kill Road and run backwards during rush hours only. The X17 would clover this stretch all other times. The X12 could be a candidate for off-peak service too. Other than that, what you see is what we're lucky to have.
2. The article in the SI Advance was wrong. The reporter never bothered to ask anyone in NYCT management whether the rumor about the 25 buses was true, which it wasn't and isn't.
David
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Peace,
ANDEE
Actually the 1982 NYCTA RTS were first group to come with windows that could open. Yes, they also had the dark tint, but the '81 buses were the only group delivered to NYCTA without opening windows.
As noted elsewhere in this thread, no.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Jim D.
Hey, you could always fire up the chainsaw and saw the left side seats in half.....messy but effective.
Did anybody check out the Q27 and Q83 routes today? How was it. Seeing Orions around Cambria Heights is a weird feeling, huh? LOL! DOes anybody know if the Q31 is at JAMAICA Depot? I notice that "Yukon2159" posted something on BT about Staten Island bus moves (check it out)and he said that MCI D4500 #2850-2852 are at Castleton? I'm thinking that #2853-2859 are going over there and QV takes #2860-2896 for the X63, X64 and X68. I wonder what will QV give up in return? Maybe the NovaBus RTS-06 #9350-9381? Could be!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
I also have a Greyhound DL3 billboard, plus some bus models on there as well. As always, the latter can be customized to match your favorite livery. Happy bidding!
-Fred
Whoops...typo. My bad.
-F.
-F.
B1-#4682-TMCRTS
B8-#600-Orion V CNG
The utc bus roster needs to be updated for January 4th with bus moves & bus routes being moved from one depot to another.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Would YOU like to be the volunteer to actually take the time to change the goddamn roster?
When you do, come back to me and we'll talk...
Incognito
Bx16 5408,5410
Bx31 1108
Or buses that run artics use RTS or orions overnight
If this is true what routes do these happen on?
Lots of power, a nice smooth ride, beautiful handling all around.
One other definite plus on those 4903/4905 series....you had one hell of a lot of baggage room, as ours were all two axle jobs with the third baggage compartment. The two large bins were big enough to live in.
Which is it?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
The kids probably call the Buffalo the "Ghetto Bus" or something similar.
That school must have one hell of a sucessful athletics program or some boosters with some deep pockets to have those motorcoaches. When I was in high school, all the teams used the ordinary yellow school bus I think. I do take a good number of high school sports team charters with my current job though, but they just charter our buses, not OWN them. And they are all bigger schools going on longer trips than what my school did.
Does anyone know how to how to tell the difference between a PD4903 and a PD4905 yet? :)
Mike
Does anyone know if it has been repaired or has it been scrapped ?
It had a PD-4104 look in front and a fishbowl type rear window. Yep, stayed with us on and off for about three hours...southbound.
Still looks gorgeous to me many years later...
Before I could post the picture, ImageStation went down. When it comes back online, the damage will be shown.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Please say a prayer for Tugger, his son Tim, their immediate family and the families he touched here in Philly and in NYC with the Mets.
GOD BLESS YOU TUGGER, AND THANKS. WE WILL MISS YOU.
This seems to drag on and on... then again, no one seems to care anymore.
Eat this Busfan!
And oh my gosh, he actually did start a thread on his own!
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Let's see how simple I can make this:
Those 330 buses are needed for the routes that JG already has. Moving the B1 to JG would add to the depot's requirements.
There. Please drop the Gleason wish-list.
B5 runs between either Flatbush av or Ralph Av to Coney Island weekdays.
B82 runs between Starret City to Harway Av-Cropsey Av weekdays.
Weekends, all b82 run to either Coney Island or Harway Av.
Institute limited service for the B82 and make the B5 local.
What do u think
B1-#9078-NOVABUS
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
B1-#9325-NOVABUS(with outside graffiti-looked like the buses did in the 70's)
B68-#7593-Orion VII
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
If I buy a ticket to travel to the mall on Tappan Zeexpress, can I use it on a Cross Rockland Express coach? Or a Orange Westchester Link bus?
On the Cross Rockland Express schedule it is indicated that some buses are OWL buses. Are they the same conpany? Do they cross honor tickets?
Coach USA/ Rockland schedule"
Thanks in advance.
On the Cross Rockland Express schedule it is indicated that some buses are OWL buses. Are they the same conpany? Do they cross honor tickets?]
The Tappan Zee Express, the Cross Rockland Express and OWL are all operated by Short Line/Coach USA. I believe all tickets are honored on all services that are shown on the Tappan Zee Express timetable.
After that, the bus fan market started to grow along with the Internet and businessmen saw the trend. From books, magazine, old/new pictures, to current double-decker model-bus , mugs, stationary, and even old used Voith/ZF Keypad, bus manufacturer's metal plate name, stirring wheel, seats, old electronic/roll destination signs, fareboxes, bus-stop signs/posts, official ads/posters all can be found these days in a bus model shop. For example, they keep on updating the model buses to the newest. What new ads are seen on real buses, they're soon on the model buses. In addition, local bus companies in Hong Kong also started to sell these stuff in their customer service center...
I agree that in North America, since public transportation is still the second priority for people to get around with, people use cars hell more than buses and that got them in love with automobiles more than buses. If there is a demand from bus fans like the NYCT subway fans do, I'm sure more bus items will be found in the NYCT Musuem store. I would also love to see more Gillig stuff available too...lol
Well, the problem is that Cummins, Volvo, and MAN dominated the bus engine market while the transmission market is shared by Voith and ZF in HK. It would be interesting to see an European bus with Detroit Diesels and Allisons. But I think the chances are low...:(
In case you're interested in what the bus companies are selling in their CS center, here is an official link for KMB...
http://www.kmb.com.hk/english.php?page=shop&file=shop.php
The newest bus model that was released this Jan is a Volvo B10TL Chassis and Wright Bus Body. It is the third picture on the first row.
I wish AC Transit and Muni could selling something like that, like Gillig in AC's scheme and Neoplan in Muni's scheme...lol...besides just selling monthly passes and cable car tickets in their CS center. If they can make money out of it, perhaps we don't need to hear anything from them concerning bus service cuts...lol
My next plan is to Europe and see what they have over there. I'm wondering if Neoplan is everywhere in Germany?...
Hehe...a little bit off topic....
Trucks to a point is in the same vein. People could also buy a truck and customize it and talk about it to others. Buses for the most part are to a point entirely owned by transit and over the road coach agencies, so the average Joe or Jane couldn't purchase one. The only other people who could do that are rich and have the ability to buy buses and customize them and regular Joe's like us couldn't do it unless a T/A retires their vehicles and they are bought for around $1000.
Of course if everyone owned a bus there really wouldn't be forums like this and we wouldn't be a select group who truly appreciate these fine-hard working and misunderstood vehicles.
Let's face it; buses keep us out of the pool halls. And ladies, before you roll your eyes about our hobbies, at least we aren't going to strip clubs or drooling over porn sites!
-F.
When you buy a bus, your friends think you are the bee's knees and just can't wait to ride around with you. But try to suggest them to ride one while it is still in service, and most of them will look at you like you just farted in church. Funny how things turn around that way.
-F.
-F.
Get Rail.
Hey MORON..how long do you think "Rail" would last without bus lines to transport passengers to and from the train stations....huh?
Try to look at the big picture...before you make an ass out of yourself again...OK?
"NEW CARROLTON LINE IN 4 MINUTES".
"FOOT IN WDOBNER'S MOUTH...NOW APPROACHING".
-F.
Though, I am disappointed how hard it is to find a proper toy bus out there. You would think there would be a model(even those build yourself kits) of most makes/models of buses, even if the agency is not the paint scheme you want.
I want my neoplan model!
Now that i'm in a quasi-urban area again, i've been reintroduced to bus travel. I even just purchased a pass(last time i bought anything must've been '98). It's a heck of a lot cheaper than gas!!!!
Now, don't get me wrong. I love my car, which has over 119,000 miles, '96 model, had maybe 70-something thousand miles in '01-'02. It's great for food shopping or my famous 1-14 hour straight never stopping joy rides, but the buses do it's job. With millions of road closures daily(witnessed 2 just today), front page news being traffic and construction most sundays, and my militant humanistic views on transportation and city planning, I'm now walking the walk.
Thank you, and will someone please make some little bus models!! Even if it's those do it yourself kits like Revel(that'd be awesome!!).
-Those China friction Fishbowls? I took one and made a 30-footer, then retrofitted it with the proper six-hole, six-lug wheels with tandems. Another received Budds with tandems, and both got realistic rear A/C units made from the cabs of Ford Aeromax tractors.
-Flxible put out some 40-foot Metro D resin kits towards the end. I shortened one to a 35-footer, slanted the back, lowered the front end height, and redesigned the windows and front to make a Grumman 870.
-Several HO scale Gillig Phantoms out of Matchbox Dennis fire engines.
-An O scale New Flyer LF from a Blue Bird school bus.
-Countless 30-foot and Grumman 870 versions (sans Sutrak) of the Road Champs Flxible Metro. Even made some with Batwings.
And I'm sure there are many more out there that I will stir up soon.
-F.
But the good thing about buses is this: if you ever have to evacuate an area, the bus can go wherever you want it to, and not just a set route that can possibly be sabotaged. This was a major factor in why we saw so many TAs convert to all-bus fleets and abandon trolleys after WWII. We thought to ourselves as a nation, "What if it happens again?".
Look at 9/11. We are asking basically the same question today.
-F.
-F.
Unfortunately, those of us who pursue this hobby are often lumped in with some of the strange characters who inhabit the transit (and railroad) fan communities. Talk to enough transit employees and you'll hear tales about fan activity that range from the humorous to the just plain strange. I've seen some behavior on fantrips that has made me cringe. Running around and getting visibly and loudly excited at the sight of a transit vehicle is not considered 'normal' by most people.
Jim D.
-F.
6 cars smashed today
4 yesterday
Can't even count the # of firetrucks and medics flying around, and they ain't fighting any fires.
bunch of morons out there, that's why I'm trying to ride the bus instead.
-f.
Sorry....hard to spell like a human when the girlfriend is shouting
"E-MAIL...CHECK MY EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-MAIL!!!".
Gotta go.
-F.
I wonder if a bus station could be built at the intersection of I-84 and I-87, and the state's bus companies could use it to run upstate-downstate routes on the "hub and spoke" system.
Fleets of buses from upstate and down would meet at the station, which would only be accessible to bus riders and employees. On the Downstate side, buses could roll up and down the East and West sides of Manhattan making multiple stops, make several stops in Brooklyn, several stops in Queens, or even several stops in Nassau, Westchester, New Jersey, etc. On the upstate side, they could be traveling to/from the several upstate cities, ski resorts, vacation and second home areas, or colleges.
Passengers would transfer at Upstate-Downstate station after using the restroom and getting refreshments. All the buses would travel more directly and make fewer intermediate stops, but with passengers from other buses, they would be just as full.
What do you think? If a bus can roll up my one-way residential street in Brooklyn, stop on the local commercial street, and head right to Atlantic City, why can't a get a bus to a station where I can change to another bus for almost any upstate destination?
What do you think.
Greyhound runs all over with a transfer at PABT, with some goin as far as Washington DC and Springfield, Ma from Islip or Hempstead
Adirondack Trailways runs Babylon-Massapequa-Freeport-Hempstead-Mineola-Queens Village-New Rochelle-White Plains-Nanuet-Kingston, with some buses continuing up to Albany.
All of these offer transfers to other bus routes to points around the entire state and other states.
Also, the ski resorts(well, Hunter atleast) has daily buses from Long Island and other points, or atleast did.
I managed to ride an Eagle once on the 139, and a standard-cap MC-9 on the 195 a couple years before they were retired.
BTW - NJ Transit also had two standard-cap Jersey Cruisers... for extra credit, what were their fleet numbers (I know the answer already, and did ride one once on the 163).
They were 1989 models and were retired in late 2000 at age 11. Eagle had gone out of business in 1998, and NJT had serious difficulty obtaining parts (especially due to the customized body work, such as the front ard rear caps). They were replaced in the initial batch of D4000s, but not by assignment - routes that saw Eagles were given reassigned MC9Bs, and the first D4000s went to Meadowlands.
The Eagles you saw in North Bergen were all Howell garage units - they were used on the 128 Boulevard East between rush hours so that they don't have to deadhead back to south Jersey or sit all day in one of the lots. The CNG MCIs also run the 128 for the same reason.
I also had a soft spot for Greyhound's MC-7 around the same time. The MC-6 was a bit weird for me.
MetroB
I have a similar example of this type of modification on page 76 of the 'TRAILWAYS BUSES' Photo Archive book...a 1945 GM PD 3702...upgraded in the 50's with large slanted side windows like those of a 4104..and the front windshield of a 4103.
You now have a 1945 bus looking much like a 4104. Nice upgrade, gives the bus a much more modern, next generation look, surely less expensive than buying a new fleet.....courtesy of Missouri Pacific Trailways.
This board will not be the same without you...and I think you will miss it very much, and I truly believe that you will be missed by many.
We have all kinds here..all fall into a certain niche. You have created your own essential niche as an afficionado of buses and trains of both, the past and the present. Your enthusiasm for these subjects is clearly infectuous....as evidenced by the positive reactions you generate with many of your posts.
If you are leaving due to those who disagree with your ideas or are critical of your style....I say to hell with them, and to leave is to have let them win. If it is for other...strictly personal reasons..well then I respect that.
Again...if you can stay..I URGE you to reconsider...If you go, I persoannly will not check in as often.
Dash 80 (my e mail address is included)
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
You have provided some very good insight into the NJ bus transit scene of yore, something that holds a LOT of interest for me since I grew up in Bloomfield and still live there (I was born in Staten Island and we moved here when I was 3).
Here's a brief synopsis of my NJ bus experiences...
My first ride on an NJ Transit bus was with my mother on the #11 from Bloomfield Center to Willowbrook Mall. It was one of the older Grumman-Flxibles (NOT an ex-NYC one) with the hard brown seats and woodgrain panelling and NO stop-request sign! That's one thing I remember vividly about them - the lack of a "Stop Requested" sign - you could keep hitting the black tape over and over and it'd keep ringing!
Never did ride on a Flxible New Look but I do remember seeing them particularly on the old P9 (now 709) and probably some other routes.
When the P9 became the 709 when I was in middle school, for the longest time no roll signs existed for them and the drivers would just stick a hand-written or computer print-out '709' sign in the front windshield.
The first time I was an RTS was when I was in 7th grade back in 1995-96 and it was on the 27 route. I was waiting for the 72 in Bloomfield Center and this RTS shows up across the street. I couldn't believe my eyes and my first thought was the "New York buses" (meaning the RTS) were invading! Of course over the next several weeks they multiplied and displaced the Metro D's from Orange Garage. Finally on one sweltering June day in 1996 while I was waiting on the 94, what showed up after a long (40+ minute) wait but a Nova. Good first impression, of course the bus was brand new at the time and the AC was icy damn cold!
Also around that time, one of the CNG-powered Metro C's (out of Orange) would show up from time to time on the 92 and I got my first ride in July of 1997. I would've gotten my first ride on the way home from school that June, but I missed it by mere seconds! I was in the corner store getting a soda and just as I was paying for it, I saw this Flxible with the words "IT'S A NATURAL" in huge swirling blue letters pass by signed on for the 92 - going in my direction no less. I was like, "Oh Shit!" and after I paid for the soda, I bolted like a bat out of hell but couldn't get across Broad Street fast enough since I didn't have the light and the damn traffic wouldn't let up! By the time I ran across the bus was pulling away.
But about a month later, I was walking up to my house from the store down the block and once again saw NGV3 coming the other way (toward the Newark Subway). My first reaction was to dash across Belleville Av to try to catch it but then logic set in... I'll just wait here and catch it on it's return trip and ride it out to South Orange! So finally after about a half-hour, NGV3 came back around and I got my first ride. I also managed to ride it several more times over the next year or so until finally they just disappeared. I believe all the CNG Flxibles are down at Hamilton. Not sure if they're still in service though.
Whew... man I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
Whatever you do, don't leave! I enjoy your insightful and interesting posts! You contribute good, quality stuff to this board and it's much appreciated!
Should be, "The first time I saw an RTS (for NJ Transit)"
Never been an RTS, don't plan on being one.. ;-)
Also, Chicago CTA received the only 1960 Flxible transit coach hybrid ever made; it featured the Twin Coach-style Old Look body with the New Look front end that would be found on all Flxes from 1961 on.
-F.
What happened to the Flxible New Looks in the 800-815 series?
Also according to the site, Triboro did order 15 of the
Flxible F2D6V401-1's. They were serial numbers 51900-51914 corresponding to fleet numbers 801-815 as you said. According to the site, # 811 is preserved by Tony Autorino of Double A Transport in Rocky Hill, CT as fleet # 70. Didn't check Double A's site to see if it is still on the roster.
The Flxibles were great. They had a real nice suspension system. They swayed quite a bit on turns.
Just a coincidence, but I just happen to have this:
This is #852. Not quite what you were looking for, but close. Hope you enjoy.
-F.
Don't you mean Grumman 870's?
As far as the slopebacks, you are telling me something new here. I didn't know that Triboro had them. Do you know what their numbers were?
All three received them during October/November, 1979
Triboro Coach: #630 - 639
(Triboro later received some from the other companies and vice-versa)
Green Bus Lines: #1001-1015
Jamaica Buses:#301 - 310
All were models T8H-203
BTW, Triboro never had any TDH-5309s! They had T6h-5305As and
T6H-5307As
The second bus is GBL #1009.
Rode 805 on the Q18 in the 1960s to JHS 126 (transfered to the 19A at 30th avenue and 21st street). I can still remember the buses assigned to the Q18 then. They included 762, 777 (GM Fishbowls), 803 and 804.
Thanks for the pic.
TD
http://photos.transitgallery.com/Far-Rockaway-A-Train-Albums
Enjoy and let me know what you think.
Nice picture!
There is also a nice shot of #861 on this site. Look in the index/table of contents and go to NYC Buses, then to Queens buses. The shot of 861 is on the first page of small pics. I'm sure there is a way to link it here, but I don't know how to do it.
Last but not least saw 4261 rehabbed, looking "fresh and clean", running the C25.
Spotted this bus going down my street(83 Ave) at 4:05 PM today(Also the time I took the pic). It was starting to move since it was waiting for a traffic light and it turn green and idk where it went after that as I know it did not made a right turn onto Queens Blvd E/B. It might had did one of these 2 options:
Left onto Queens Blvd W/B
or
Contune straight down 83 Ave(becomes Hoover Ave)
I say it was option 1.
Used to be on m31 a lot - Has padded transit seats - real nice , quiet and very clean bus.
B1-#9324-NOVABUS
p.s. #9109 out of Ulmer Park HAS BEEN FULLY REPAINTED!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
#9099 - B6
#9106 - B6 - Ltd
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
But there is a pic right here anyway :)
The CS Suburbans are falling apart butthis bus was a gem.
By the way CS seems to be running more and more suburbans on q32 - wonder if quill is going to start doing the same - It is a long run that could be the logic.
Da Hui
More and more are showing up from CS and sometimes from MJQ
The entire album. Newest photos at the top.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
I can't wait for Stengel to get their order... *drools*
I told a driver on the M27 (towards UN) that her sign read "Port Authority." She said "at least you know where the bus is going." She's going on report. When I tell other B/Os they have the wrong destination sign, they say "thank you" and change the sign.
Last Saturday, standing on 9th Avenue at Port Authority to catch the M11 to Chelsea market, two M11s came by and didn't attempt to stop and pick me up. I took the subway to 14th Street and caught up with them at the Hudson Street starting point. I got both their bus numbers and run numbers. Both of them are going on report.
It's bad B/Os like this group that give the other B/Os a bad rap.
Michael
Washington, DC
Da Hui
How do you know in what context that statement was made? I surely don't, and cannot ascertain it based on the post. How can you??
Also, unless the M11 goes through some country back roads that I am not aware of, I find it rather hard to believe that not one but two buses would pass by Michael at a bus stop in Manhattan.
Which is exactly the reason I find it hard to believe two buses would pass someone unless that someone wasn't in a bus stop, or the buses were limited, reassigned or not in service. No facts were given to come to any conclusion.
The only possibility that comes to my mind is that the bus was full, but I think Michael would have seen that himself.
He could have said it himself, too. Which he didnt, so why are you?
Just because he (or I) do not live in New York does not mean we are entited to a lower class of service and that we can not complain about the service.
Lower class? You don't live here. That in itself lends class to our system. Go complain about RideOn 27.
There is no M11 limited. Of course, someone decided that the LIMITED STOPS sign P/R should be removed, so now routes like the M11 can't even be signed as limiteds on a need be basis.
If New York is such the model city everyone claims it is (as opposed to Washington), why can't the bus drivers be a bit nicer towards the tourists?
Da Hui
BIG AL
Sure knows how to make good use of his time in NYC. Let a few alleged mishaps ruin his day on vacation, and then come on here and brag about it? This guy needs to spend less time dancing and chasing buses and more time in anger management therapy/coping skills training...
I'm sure those 'reports' went right in the trash. These days we all have more important things to be concerned with...at least most of us do. I feel sorry for this creep. Stuff like this happens all the time in life...if you let it get to you, you'll have no life
MetroB
Da Hui
I think Michael has valid complaints and some of your reasons for why he is wrong are just pure BS.
Well since you don't work in customer service, you can't throw it into the trash.
"Perhaps you were not standing in the proper bus stop or not visible to the upcoming operators."
I was standing right next to the pole. Now you'll probably tell me I should have climbed the pole. But I will get an answer and it's probably NOT the one you posted.
With an attitude like yours, you definitely put the "fresh" in Fresh Pond Depot. Probably made a lot of people by leaving.
Michael
Washington, DC
Believe me, I wish I did, so I could.
"But I will get an answer, and it's probably not the one you posted".
You MAY get an answer, but it won't be what you are looking for. Since you had to "chase" the buses via a train just to get the numbers, there is no way for you to prove that the two buses at the end of the line are the same one's that passed you by. NYCT won't even bother interviewing anybody due to these ridiculous circumstances.
"With an attitude like yours, you definitely put the "fresh" in Fresh Pond Depot.
With an attitude like yours, you need to stay down in D.C. and look for trivial things to whine about. We have enough of your type up here.
"Probably made alot of people by leaving".
Ditto.
BIG AL
So is he wrong for making that kind of complaint? Maybe he was just trying to help. Couldn't she have gotten written up for it if a supervisor caught her with the wrong sign? I don't know how NYCT handles it but if a NJT bus has a wrong dest., you can get written up. Since he mentioned he has done it before, maybe he was jsut trying help her.
"That's one complaint I would throw right into the waste basket."
Then what would be a "legitimate" complaint?
MetroB
BIG AL
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
BIG AL
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Da Hui
Da Hui
Da Hui
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
BIG AL
BIG AL
David
BIG AL
CG
http://www.mta.info/metrocard/termsreg.htm
Transfer Restrictions
No transfers from subway to subway or to the bus route on which you started.
No transfers between these bus routes:
-downtown Fifth Av and uptown Madison Av buses (M1, M2, M3, M4)
-downtown Lexington Av and uptown Third Av buses (M101, M102, M103)
-southbound and northbound Grand Concourse buses (Bx1 and Bx2)
-M27 and M50
-M31 and M57
-M96 and M106
-Bx40 and Bx42
CG
I think you merely took it the wrong way. Look at the facts, New Years Eve, most of the pax are probably high, to one degree or the other, so, she was making a little joke on account of you being sober and knowing where you are going.
I would have taken it as a joke, maybe you should lighten up.
Peace,
ANDEE
Thing 1... That actually is a problem for passengers who intend to transfer to the M15 at First Avenue. Remember that the destination sign readings are linked to the farebox, so a bus with a westbound reading will issue or encode westbound transfers even if the bus itself is going east. Since the westbound trip starts at First Avenue, it doesn't offer a transfer to the northbound M15, so anybody who had to make that transfer paid an unnecessary second fare.
Thing 2... I've never had a problem reminding bus operators about their signs. Even if I'm just walking by, I flash my employee ID and point up; they thank me for "pointing" out the wrong reading before some vindictive superintendent sees it.
Thank you for sticking with the facts and not ad homimen attacks.
Michael
Washington, DC
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
Da Hui
Dispatchers tell buses to skip stops.
It happens.
MetroB
I've read postings over what I consider trivial without the originator being attacked. At times, this board is like a fraternity. Only those on the "inside" can criticize or complain.
As for does anything happen to operators, I'm told that complaints go in their file and if they get too many, they are severely disciplined. The TA encourages comments (positive and negative). The purpose of complaints is to improve service not to get somebody fired.
Putting a complaint, whether legitimate or not, onto this board is like pissing into the wind. If there is a real complaint, write a business-like letter to the agency involved. Posting it here means NOTHING. All it does is make you like like a whiney sissy.
Oh, and Steve, are you the Steve Hoskins of railfan lore? I've seen your name in a variety of places.
I'm not pretending to be something, nor am I hiding from anyone, so I don't have any problem with using my real name.
Michael
Washington, DC
Da Hui
Being from out of town is NOT a valid reason for why M4 wouldn't be entitled to post what he did.
They don't come here to be a whiney sissy and post ONLY complaints. Face it, this is NOT a perfect world. And just because bus operators are public employees (in most cases), they are NOT required to kiss peoples' asses.
Then what is the bus driver, a reptile?
Peace,
ANDEE
Machine :)
Da Hui
It's the person who remains quiet and does have a legitimate complaint that will call in. And they will do it in a business-like manner, not come into some Internet forum and brag about it.
Other bus drivers know that people standing at a bus stop want the bus to stop. I can understand when there are multiple routes that share a stop and the passenger may indicate at the last moment he doesn't want the particular route that showed up. There are only two routes that stop at my location, M16 and M11. The M11s were speeding which is why they didn't stop. I'm not going to climb on top of the bus pole and shoot off fireworks. Nor am I going to run into the middle of the street to flag down a bus.
Michael
Washington, DC
That's usually a good indication that they were instructed to flag stops.
Well actually, at NJT, passengers are supposed to flag down the bus as it approaches.
MetroB
MetroB
Okay...
First, a (partial) disclosure: I have worked for Transit for the past 15 years, initially as an analyst and now as a manager in a bus-related function.
Now I'll say this: I've formally reported only two bus operators during my entire career, both during the early 1990's. One was operating in revenue service while out of uniform (wearing jeans and sneakers); the other refused to let a traffic checker board his bus (at a designated stop, with a valid Transit employee pass).
Except for those two instances, I find the "friendly reminder" approach to be a far more productive way to address minor issues. Specifically, a "friendly reminder" will (1) alert the bus operator that a problem exists, (2) points out that "someone" knows and cares about it, and (3) solves the problem immediately - all without raising anybody's blood pressure.
What rule violation is this?
Da Hui
However, I will entertain your question as a sidebar and afterthought with respect to traffic checkers on my bus and the like. Personally, I have a great deal of empathy for them. They must endure some pretty ridiculious rules and regulations to keep their jobs. They must stand in inclement weather and deal with not only TA management, but the general public and the temperments and personalities of bus operators they're assigned with for the day.
I treat traffic checkers with respect- they are fellow union brothers and sisters. For the most part, they are a decent hard working group of people trying to do an honest days work without incident. Even if they're considered the bastard setp children of the TA, I consider them nem and women doing a job as well as they can under very intimidating and trying circumstances.
When I've got a checker on my bus, I usually buy him/her coffee and ask if they need a restroom break, so I can plan ahead to best keep on schedule. I incorporate them into my day, and rather enjoy the company. It helps the day pass sooner.
When I see a checker out there late at night or early in the morning, I'll pick up a coffee or soda for them. I'll ask if they need anything, then be on my way.
None of this has anything to do with their job as data is taken recording my operation. I couldn't care less what they write on their sheets. That's not my job.
Now, which rule was referenced and violated?
Conveniently, as it happens, Gotham doesn't *remember* what happened. Typical.
Do you know for a fact that the pass was valid and that it belonged to the individual holding it?
While I don't recall the specific chapter-and-verse in the rule book, my complaint cited the face sheet notation that "Buses are available to all intending passengers on all revenue trips."
is a general blanket statement of policy and not an official governing rule. The policy that "Buses are available to all intending passengers on all revenue trips" would not apply to passengers waiting at a local bus stop intending to board a limited bus. It could be argued that the policy is too vague in it's language and subject to situational circumstances. Enter this violation, as I progress.
Additionally, Chapters 4 and 5, Rules 83 through 96 of the NYCTA Rules and Regulations governing Bus Operation, makes no mention of the policy "Buses are available to all intending passengers on all revenue trips" (Note: Chapters 2 and 3 deal specifically with Rapid Transit regulation. Rule 1 is a general employee outline).
Therefore, I would argue that the violation be dismissed without prejudice based on the fact that it doesn't exist within the rulebook or contract. A rule violation can only be written against a rule violated. Should that rule not exist, the violation is errant and improper.
Not unlike a police officer ticketing a railfan for snapping a photo from a platform.
You're the one who made mention of it and brought it to the forum. You also stated you've only issued two violations. One would think that you'd remember the details of issuing such a small number of violations. One would think that you would remember a rule in which you issued a violation. You're quick to post data about everything else, one would imagine a rule would roll off your fingertips! Especially one you indicate an employee violated!
If you weren't prepared to discuss the particulars, you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
The driver in question turned out to have a history of disciplinary problems, and was suspended for two days.
A "history" of problems? In an agency that routinely disciplines over half it's workforce annually, please define "history" in numerical value. Of course, by sheer virtue of the two days you say he served, I can tell you right now how many instances of discipline he served. Can you?
I find it interesting that you remember the discipline but not the rule. You would have had to wait and investigate the outcome at the depot level for at least two weeks. One would imagine something so important would remain in your selective memory.
End of story.
Typical of you. When you cannot post factual information to support your claims, you run from the discussion. Only difference is, here at Bus Talk, you can't delete your posts :-)
Michael
Washington, DC
;-)
hahahahahah LOL
also, it looks like 4342 is going to be scraped like 4742.
When MetroCard was first introduced on LI Bus, I seem to recall that some of the literature implied that transfers would still only be accepted at transfer points.
Is this actually the case? Or will my Metrocard transfer be accepted on any bus as long as it's within 2 hours?
CG
I know LIB uses a better integrated farebox system than NYCT. Perhaps that might be a factor.
Joe?
There was no "checking" the validity of these transfers.
Robert
BIG AL
That type of thing happens all the time within the city. I was specifically wondering whether one could take an N15 from Long Beach up to Mineola and then walk the two blocks over to the Mineola station and get a free transfer to the N23 (or some other route).
I do know that you can't get subway-bus transfers on all LI Bus routes. I've taken the subway to the LIRR to LI Bus many times and not gotten a free transfer even though it was well within the 2 hour window. There must be something in the fareboxes that tells whether or not the particular line is eligible for a subway-bus transfer.
CG
That would probally make sense, as only certain routes go to/from the subway: N1, N2, N3 (rush hours), N4, N6 N20/N21 N22 N24 N26, N31/N32. And N33?
Given the length of time that it takes to go from upper Manhattan to Far Rock and then the headway on the N33, you could run into a situation where the time to make the transfer runs out -- even though you're making the quickest possible connection.
CG
I've taken the E train to Penn Station, and then the LIRR from Penn to Rockville Centre and then gotten on the N14. The N14 will deduct a fare from the Metro Card even though the two hour window hasn't expired from when I boarded the subway. So obviously the farebox logic knows that subway transfers aren't accepted on the N14.
Had I taken the E out to Jamaica and boarded an N4 to Rockville Centre then clearly, my Metro Card transfer would be accepted.
But what if I took the E to the LIRR to Rockville Centre and boarded an eastbound N4 there? Would the bus farebox know that I wasn't at a subway transfer point and therefore deduct another fare?
Thanks to everyone for their input.
CG
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Da Hui
Da Hui
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
WMATA played a huge role in his first tenure, taking thousands of fans to RFK to watch the games week after week. Metrobuses that were chartered to go to RFK. I remember seeing buses all over Langley Park taking people there before the subway was running at full steam like it is today.
1983- Redskins win first Super Bowl. Cold and rainy winter day and my father and I head down to DC to watch the parade. I remember riding an 859x Flx New Look with the flip dots to Fort Totten on the R8. We get down there and see the 'Skins roll by on two Flx New Looks. One was a suburban style one and the other, I don't remember.
Soon after, Flx New Looks were sporting the Redskins championship banners on the tops of their buses.
Then, the Flx Metro B's came out and even during preseason games, they'd have their signs programmed to "Redskins Will Win Today". One of them even had a banner painted on the top when they won against the Denver Broncos. It was nuts here in the 80's and I just hope the area gets perked up by this news.
With all this craziness going on in the world today, it is nice to see people smiling. Even my wife who doesn't like football at all, was happy to hear the news. I couldn't stop talking about it. Sure we could go 1-15 next year, but who cares!!!
I don't dislike the 'Skins, but my observations since I've been living in the DC area is that many of the 'Skins fans that I knew were flaky. I say this because when the 'Skins were good they were happy and proud, but when the 'Skins didn't do so well... they wanted to fire everybody who had anything to do with the team. I can understand being frustrated (I sure had lots of it this season), but I think folks should stick by their team through the bad and good.
I hope WMATA will get back into the act. Unfortunately, it will probably take something like the 'Skins looking like strong playoff contenders.
BTW - I saw 3936 making a trip on the G8 this morning. I had never seen anything other than a Flx Metro-B (40 footer) or NF C40LF, of course on this route. Yesterday, I saw a Ride-On cutaway on the back of a tow truck
Picture posted to keep this thread back on track... =)
In November we went to the Ravens/49ers game and of course I had to look at the dozens of MTA Buses parked all over the area. None of the B/O's were around. I wonder if they let them in to watch them game. After the game, of course I wanted to stick around and watch the buses leave, but we were short on time.
Could be, some stadiums do let the drivers in during games. My friend is a b/o for Miami-Dade Transit, and during the summer of 2002 he was on the extra board and one Saturday night he worked a Marlins express run and he told me later that they let him in. (As it turned out, I was at that game and he had called my cell to let me know he was there, but I had it turned off, D'OH!) I don't know if drivers are allowed inside for Dolphins games, which routinely sell out, while of course the Marlins barely drew flies until the last month of so of last season and of course throughout the post-season.
Then again, the team I follow most is the Orioles. I've never been much of a football fan.
Too bad not too many of the older WMATA buses are around, or else they could go retro and have all the Redskins shuttles be the ones from the days of his coaching. : )
It is funny how Gibbs always referred to the former owner as Mr. Cooke, but calls the current one, Dan. Hmmm, who has control here? LOL
Everybody is so happy to have Joe Gibbs back I saw a Redskin fan get off a CAGV and started dancing and holloring, he seemed very happy. Now getting off a CAGV would have one to run into the street to get hit by a car, commit suicide soon afterwards, bow their heads down in gloom or just break out into straight a crying fit. It is amazing what one person can do huh.
At that time Coach Joe Gibbs showed respect to the elder Jack Kent Cooke. Today it’s the other way around.
John
-F.
From what I remember of the pic, BOY did those Neoplans look screwy in the Second Scheme. They just didn't wear it like the Metros!
-F.
See it for yourself....
http://www.commonwealthcoach.com/74WashMetro.html
-F.
-F.
JD
MAN 5119 recieved the current scheme but none of the other MANs did.
-F.
-F.
None of the new looks received the current paint scheme and only one MAN and one RTS received the new paint scheme, still don't know why, as to my knowledge neither was kept for their historic fleet.
Just recently, I went searching for WMATA pics and found 9813 in the third scheme. It looks NOTHING like it did when I rode it.
-F.
-F.
Whoops! I did hear this, but got the schemes mixed up. When I first visited D.C. in 1986, I only saw one RTS in the second scheme.
JD
-F.
But 40-foot low-floors in Baltimore have been terrible. Which makes me think, Neoplans seem like "hit-or-miss" buses: some systems love 'em and buy batch after batch after batch, and some systems have awful problems with them. Even in the latter case, they do seems to "calm down" after maybe two years in service and shape up to be decent buses, but I wonder if anyone else has noticed this pattern. Any insight?
Now can anyone explain why SEPTA bought the NABI's and now they're getting all of those New Flyers? Was it the cost of the buses?
Was it the "Lowest Bidder" rules?
I'm wondering because of all of the Neoplans SEPTA acquired in the 80's, I thought NEOPLAN would be a longtime supplier of buses to SEPTA, like GM/TMC/NOVA was a longtime supplier of RTS's to MTA.
-F.
-F.
Remember that these cities in Alberta are a few among the countless Canadian operators still with New Looks in daily service. I argue that Transit Windsor (Ontario) has the coolest bus fleet anywhere. They have about 100 buses, and among the models represented are Orion I (40 footers!), Orion V, Orion VI, Orion VII, GM Classic, MCI Classic (with about ten different spec variations), NovaBUS LFS, and of course, the venerable GM New Looks. Most of Transit Windsor's New Looks are 1978-1982 T6H-5307N models, but rumor has it that they still have a couple 60s-era TDH-4519s in tripper service. If anyone wants more info, let me know.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
2. None of them are wheelchair accessible. They retrofitted one New Look with a lift as an experiment, but it proved expensive and infeasible.
About TTC's rebuilds, there have been several different versions of the rebuild program. There are 6-year rebuilds, where the bus receives some basic work and returns to service. The 18-year rebuilds go a lot deeper, and when gradutes of this program come back, they have new numbers. You can recognize a fully (18 year) rebuilt TTC New Look by a fleet number in the 2000s. The original, unrebuilt New Looks (numbered in the 8000s) are becoming increasingly rare. At last check, the oldest unrebuilt bus in service was 8058, a 1975 GMDD T6H-5307N.
And once again, Toronto, Red Deer, Calgary, and Edmonton are just a few of the dozens of Canadian cities where New Looks still roll.
Not trying be be an asshole -- just trying to keep things accurate.
I mean that none of the New Looks are accessible. TTC has three batches of low floor buses (Orion VI-CNG 9200-9249, New Flyer D40LF 7300-7350, and the new Orion VIIs 7400+), plus it's one of the few Canadian properties with lift-equipped buses: 1996 Orion V 7000-7134, 1996 Orion V-CNG 9400-9449, and 1998 NovaBUS RTS-08 7200-7251.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
You notice that none of these transit agencies are in the United States right? The reason New Looks last so long up there is because they don't have a litany of government mandates dictaing how to operate and purchase buses.
I think this says it all....
"None of them are wheelchair accesible." -RTS T80 206
How about that? ADA compliance is what kills and has killed thousands of the ADB buses. And, hmmmmm, I wonder what the EPA standards are up there? How is federal funding mandated? What regulations does the Canadian government have on the age and mileage of buses? Is it the 12 year 500,000 mile rule? What about low bids?
I wonder what the cultural climate of Canada is like? The streets? Public works? All of these factor in to determine the longevity and the asthetics of a bus, whether you choose to acknowledge these factors or not. Since everyone has a hard on for the New Looks, it's good to wax poetic about their longevity, despite the climate and culture being TOTALLY different in the era they were built and the only places they currently operate. I wonder how many New Looks would still be around if Canada had opted to build RTS-04's or even ordered Flxibles instead of continuing New Look production? But, we'll never know because like so many here, they were set in the past. Well, it does seem to be working for them though, for the time being anyway.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Like #5237 here (take the same day) with the black trim on the door panels
"She BLINDED Me...With SCIENCE!!!"
-F.
Hmmm... I feel the complete opposite, now ain't that something! ;-)
To each their own, I guess.
-F.
Jim D.
Flxible Metros and Grumman 870s look even worse in all white. Once again, black was a color that made the bus!
-F.
It looks like a regular RTS to me.
-F.
B8-#7640-Orion VII
Yes, you're correct about Command's first RTS being #351. #351-355 were the first at Command and they were the 04 series. This small group was a bit different from the others Command rec'd a bit later. 351-355 had dark tinted windows and a dot-matrix destination sign, but no side sign. They had the DD 6V-92TA/Allison powertrain.
Peace,
Kevin
1001 was the first of Green's fifteen 1979 Slopebacks.
Green also has 1985 RTS-04 #10001, formerly 269. IIRC, it was renumbered because it was the 10,001st RTS built.
Jamaica #301 was the first NYCDOT RTS off the production line.
Kevin
Jamaica Buses Inc. 1979 GMC RTS #310
Regards,
Kevin
B1-#7523-REMAN RTS
B3-#9308-NOVABUS
It became Spokane, WA #149. NYCDOT's demo became Spokane 150.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
B44 Repowered RTS #8027
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Got a $4 metrocard at the PW station ticket window. Got on the bus, put in my metrocard, farebox reader says invalid or some f'ed up thing that neither I nor the B/O had ever seen. He told me to go run in and get a new card. When I told the woman at the window that the metrocard she sold me was defective and that I wanted a new one, she told me she couldn't do anything about it unless I pay another $4 for a new one. I pleaded with her explaining that the only money I had no more money(well, I had more, but it was to pay for my mothers gift). She said that they only sell metrocards as a favor for the subways. WTF KINDA BS IS THAT!? What about us bus riders!?
Americana is a friggin nightmare for any pedestrian. When Wladbaums closed, they took away the staircase to the intersection where the bus stop is(well, across the street from). So now it's either walk the really busy street to Searingtown rd(which BTW, has no sidewalk, and dodging the SUV's there is like trying to dodge a bomb the size of Texas), or walk all the way down to Crate&Barrel and then walk all the way back, probably a mile hike for ya right there.
There's nothing wrong with RFM. Yea, the fact that you gotta walk through the parking lot to get there from the bus stop in a bitch, but otherwise it's fine.
Why am I asking? I want to know if there was any confusion when other Limited service buses were instituted. I boarded a Q17 Limited today from Flushing and apparently some people STILL don't get the Limited service. We even had to make two unauthorized stops at Elder Avenue and at Rose Avenue because people just happened to NOT KNOW the bus was a limited, despite all the signage. The bus operator was even holding a "Limited" sign while passengers boarded and paid their fares. He did get upset at a passenger who came up to him and asked to stop (this guy knew some english, and clearly HEARD the announcements that the bus was a Limited, and he STILL got on... -_- ) and said back to him "I got five signs across the bus; don't read? You know what time it is? (it was well after 5:30) Uh-huh..." And then he opened up the doors at Rose Avenue and let him off.
Another passenger suggested they should make multi-language "Limited" signs so others could understand. The bus operator said he was going to bring it up to management, or something to that effect.
Hopefully, by September 2004, people along the Q17 route will finally know what stops the Limited serves.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
Queens is home to speakers of over 150 languages; which languages get included, and which get left out (at the risk of offending somebody)? I'd rather see public service notices in the various ethnic publications, complete with descriptions of the "Limited Stops" concept and the routes which utilize it, plus a color photo of an orange-and-purple "Limited" tumbler card.
(BTW, those tumbler cards have started showing up in some of the Flatbush Avenue "gypsy" vans, so someone clearly understands the concept!)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=639060
Is this yard part of the East New York Bus Depot & how many buses are stored here from East New York & how many buses can East New York Bus Depot store.
Also, where exactly is the Carlton Staorage Yard.
As for Carlton StaorageYard I don't know were it is.
Robert
Maybe Ulmer Park can lose another bus route to reileve some of the overcrowding like moving the B1 to Jackie Gleason that I mentioned on bustalk since Jackie Gleason (I believe,not sure) has some more room for another bus route.
Robert
Robert
And if more CNG buses were to come to Jackie Gleason if the B1 happened to move there, they can borrow the Orion VII buses from West Farms Depot.This is an idea.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Thank You
Just a thought (who knows what will happen with the privates anyway)
Actually, the disposition of the depots used by the "private" companies (including those depots owned by NYCDOT) is one of the great unknowns of this issue.
David
If the TA takes over the private lines the Queens Surfice and Command garage will become TA property since they are already owned by the City of New York.
The status of the other garages in my opinion are as follows:
Triboro Coach-If the TA can operate the Triboro routes from the Queens Surfice facility i believe that the TA will not take over this garage.
Jamaica Buses-Depends on the current status of rebuilding the current TA Jamaica Depot. I believe that if the TA can lease the facility from the Coopers they may do so while the Jamaica Depot facilty is rebuilt. Once this is done then the TA will not need this facility.
Green Bus Lines-The Rockaway garage will be closed as it really will nor be needed by the TA but i believe that the TA will want the Rockaway Blvd facility is it will be needed as a 4th Queens TA depot.
New York Bus Service facilty will not be taken over from the NYBS because they will need it for its school bus operation .
Since the Liberty Lines garage is in Yonkers the TA will not acquire it. I believe that the Bronx express routes can be operated from the current 3 Bronx depots and if they are to crowded than Amsterdam can be reopened. I was told if the TA does indeed take the routes in late 2002 when the idea was first proposed a divisonal general manager told me that Amsterdam will remain open. I do not know if the idea has been changed since then
Only time will tell and i repeat these are my specuations only and i have no inside information from any of my sources in the DOB
Thank You
One would like to think so (I know I would), but it's not a lock.
David
BIG AL
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Jonn
David
1]Which groups of WMATA buses spent their entire career at one garage?
2]Before the arrival of the Flxible Metros, there were two WMATA buses numbered 8800 and 4000. What were they and why they were here?
3]What was the largest single bus order WMATA made?
4]In 1979 WMATA was one of the first transit systems to get what type of bus?
5]What is the largest, and the smallest WMATA garages?
6]Ride-On was the largest user of what manufacturer's bus?
7]When did Fairfax Connector start operating and where?
8]What does CUE stand for?
I never knew that any of our (NYCTA)buses had visited WMATA. Did you have a chance to ride them? Our 8800 was a GMC T6H-5305A identical to WMATA's 3800 series. TA had plenty of fishbowls with high-backed seats for express service. However, they were all transits (including 8800) with no suburban features except the high-backed seating. #4000 was a Flxible very similar to WMATA's 6800 series buses. I think the 6800 series buses were 96-inches wide??? All buses purchase by NYCTA since the new looks have been 102's (except a small number of Grumman 870).
-F.
-f.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AFAIK
Incognito
I may be wrong, but I think the answer to #4 is MAN. I always thought that WMATA's RTS were 03 series. I have the premiere issue of Bus World that had an article about Long Beach Transit being the first RTS customer (series 01) with 15 buses (4701-4715)
2]Before the arrival of the Flxible Metros, there were two WMATA buses numbered 8800 and 4000. What were they and why they were here?
3]What was the largest single bus order WMATA made?
4]In 1979 WMATA was one of the first transit systems to get what type of bus?
5]What is the largest, and the smallest WMATA garages?
Largest: Landover
Smallest: Arlington
6]Ride-On was the largest user of what manufacturer's bus?
Gillig
7]When did Fairfax Connector start operating and where?
8]What does CUE stand for?
Yeah, I know 2/8 isn't particuarly good. I'm preparing for verbal assault as soon as you all read this.
1)Neoplans
2)ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
3)620 AMGs, the second was the 264 Orion Vs of 98 vintage
4)RTS
5)Bladensburg is the largest over 300 bus spaces, Arlington the smallest
6)I will guess and say TMC
7)1985 I think
8)This one I should know I went to GMU. City University, don't know what the E stood for.
2. If your not talking about the 8800 Flx Metro and 4000 Flx Metro then it was BC=before Chris
3.AM Generals
4.MANN 55ft Articulateds of course!! Which was the 5000's series and were at Bladensburg.
5.Biggest=Bladensburg DUH!! Smallest is a toss up but I'll say Arlington
6. TMC's. I wish we kept one for historic purposes
7. 1985 from Huntington Station to Fort Hunt?
8. City-University Energysaver
How did we do?
6) What happened to that TMC that was just sitting there?
8)WOW, that is the coolest name for a transit system I've ever heard...The Energysaver...sounds much better than Blue Leaf Transit...
How about The Breathway....
3) The V order of 97 (but they had to cancel some buses and such)?
7) I'll say 1989...that's when they got the O1s, right? Fairfax County it began (I know that's the obvious answer and probably not right, hehe...)
8) Wow, I'll have to check my transit info collection, I know I got a CUE schedule at the OLD TRANSIT SHOP.
They are guesses...hey, I just got heavily into the DC transit scene, hehe...
Dress warmly!
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
And wouldn't you know it I have two middle school charters next week.
Mike
When I went on to high school, I was told stories of racial tension and that I would get shipped home in a pine box the first week. I got along with Blacks, Asians, and other minorities just fine; it was once again the rednecks that would punch and pick. If you showered, got your hair cut, got an A, or spoke good English, you were toast.
-F.
-F.
My last middle-school kids charter was last spring. At a stop I walked through the bus and some kids were worried when I approached and passed two of their friends cuddled up next to each other. Awwwwww, how cuuuute. But really, I couldn't care less. I'm not their parent or teacher.
Mike
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m4PRN/2003_May_22/102163389/p1/article.jhtml
-F.
CG
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
True. And we can show all the killing and violence on broadcast TV we want. But God forbid a pair of boobies pop up on the screen. That would be too immoral........
Mike
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
I also had to put up with that crap. I was in high school at the time.
I remember one time in particular. I was taking the BX 12 bus back home. To make this more transit related, the BX 12 at that time were RTS's and Blitzes (and Fishbowls). I kept feeling this stinging pain near my legs but since the bus was so crowded, I could not see what was causing it. Then I saw these two punks from my school. They were snapping rubber bands and a retracting chain-like key chain at my ankles. When I realized what was going on, I yelled at them to stop it.
Every day it was something else. Sometimes there were threats ("You're dead after school!"). Sometimes they would point and laugh. Sometimes they would purposely stand near me to make weird obscene sounds or scream in my ear. They would knock off my cap if I would wear one. This went on for almost the entire year. It got so bad, I would literally stay after school and wait until I saw those guys leave and made sure I was far enough behind them to avoid having to take the same bus.
I know this sounds like a wussy thing to do. But I had no one to turn to. I was too proud to tell my family or the school about it. I knew the bullies would deny it. Besides, we were on public property at that point so there was not much the school could do to make sure that they would not bother me like that.
Things got a little better in my senior year. I finally stood up to a couple of them the last day of junior year by mimicking the screams and noises they were making to me. In my senior year, at a school assembly they saw that I had made it into the National Honor Society which they could never hope to do and they started to ignore me.
The ironic thing is that I ended up classmates with one of them when we were in college. I used to work for the school transportation system as a student driver. I even spoke to him a couple of times. By then he had grown up thank God.
This stuff happened to me almost 17 years ago. But the scars of it take more time to heal than you think. I only wish there was a "Zero Tolerance for Bullies" when I was growing up. Maybe I would have had a way to deal with those bad times.
B1-#9295-NOVABUS
Q32-#8991-NOVABUS
Q60-#5506-Orion V(sign not working-typical)
Especially the old WMATA bus scheme with the black.
The new scheme with blue replacing the black makes the Flxes look odd.
-F.
-F.
-F.
-Fred
-Fred
25 years is a very long time to love a bus that still looks brand new.
-Fred
-F.
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
1]AM General A and B models
2]NEOPLAN AN440-60 [post 1995 with the tapered-off back]
Just wondering ;-)
1. The GMC RTS-04
2. The GMC RTS-01
3. Flxible Metro with Twin Exhausts
-F.
If you're getting on a bus, and all things being equal(no one on board, no puddles, etc...) Where do you sit? Left, middle, front, back. Maybe Aisle or window. And don't count those cities with the buses that have the row of 3-5 single seats, we all take those anyway.
Example, myself:
I always subconsciencely go to the left side. And on the Gillg Advantage, I always have that middle step seat, not on the low floor, but not on the high-floor portion, when available. Either way, I normally take the left side by the rear door, sometimes very back.
I wish I had some psychology basis to explain what the means about one self though, be interesting. :)
My other spots are the very back, usally on the left of the bus, that 2 row seat right in front of the back door, and a seat on the left on that row on single seats(bench style section sorta).
On Greyhound/Peter Pan, it's either at the very front if the B/O allows me to, or 2 seats behind a TV. Sitting in the seat right in front of the TV makes you have to look up really sharp for the movie.
Incognito
However, if I am riding with a driver I know, I usually sit at a front side-facer so that I can hear what they have to say.
-F.
1.) Forward Facing
2.) From the back (most preferable) to the front (least preferable)
3.) Ride side
4.) Window seat (if behind rear door), Aisle seat (if in front of rear door)
On a low floor bus, the very back seat in the middle. Really cool vantage point. Probably one of the two only reasons I like low-floor.
-F.
I wonder what model it will be before the New Flyer people decide to put in a retractable step-ladder for the drivers seat. Even big Pick-up trucks don't have a step like that!
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
Hopefully they can get some nice apartments to start snaking down the line and push that element away. Kindof like what I deal with all the time, and it works
Before you know it, the Kama Sutra will be printed onto bus schedules. Either way you slice it, people will read it and learn their way around!
-F.
-F.
ORION: Odd Riders In Orgy Now.
-F.
Thanks for the memories!
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-F.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
of all seats on the bus- the singles in the front
during the morning rush esp if i'm carrying stuff on the bus- the wheelchair seats (the triplets) since I can store things under it.
on a bus with limited seating that is going to get packed in a few stops- the seats on the turntable, since I can't be squashed be a fat person (which always sits next to me), or attacked be a guy who feels the need to spread his legs 5 feet wide. The thin to average sized person (usually a girl, strangely enough) usually sits here.
I avoid the middle axle and the trailer since the suspension in both places sucks (and is not the place to sit if you just ate and dont want to have a stomachache by the end of the ride)
In any case, I usually sit across from the rear door, so I can get off the bus easily. But if the bus was empty like you said, I either sit on the right side(door side) front facing double seats. or the Back (door side) Corner seat, so I can rest against the window, and take a nap.
Facing forward, driver would be on the left door side/passenger side of car, right.
Keep 'em coming, Chris! :)
Anyway,
another new flyer
OCCC Shuttle
Lynx 8 bus, this ones pink
BIG AL
Hope you find the opportunity to spend a little time at the Lynx downtown terminal to see the most colorful bus fleet in the U.S. I, for one, would love to know exactly how many colors Lynx has in its fleet!
I suggest a ride on the Lymmo(downtown BRT system). It's free.
" I, for one, would love to know exactly how many colors Lynx has in its fleet!"
ANyone want me to send an email and ask?
Also, I hope it warms up when you come, it's been in the 40's all day!
LYNX central Station
Anything is warmer than the single digits and teens we've been feeling up here!
It's the new North/South Complex of the orange county convention center. Picture was taking from the new "Oversee Bridge" connecting the two buildings. About .5 miles north of the bee-line(Toll 529). I didn't notice you can see another bus in the background.
That pic was probably saturday, maybe friday when i realized that was the bus i was gonna take and missed it. I was doing a show there(I can't get away from that place, practically live there).
Very nice buses, watched all the I-ride trolleys go by to wait for the Lynx.
Here is a pic of the new North South Complex hosted just for the night.
BIG AL
I had some more pics for really nice brand new coaches I never seen before, but the pic is too dark to scan with the shadows.
It get's too pixelated if i make it too big and sharpen it so far, but it looks like "PR 3638" or something similiar. maybe five instead of a 6 and so on.... Maybe even PA instead of PR....
Any clues?
-F.
Listen to how fast that RTS is going! :-O
You'll also hear the voice of a passenger who just realized the Limited passed his stop (he didn't see all the colorful "Limited" signs or something...) and asks the driver to stop. The bus made an unauuthorized stop but not after the driver voiced his displeasure to the passenger.
I've never been on a RTS going that fast ever in my life, and probably never will again.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
We were going on the REALLY fast Holly Avenue to Horace Harding stretch. We had just left Holly Avenue and we were going down Kissena Blvd towards Horace Harding. The driver made a VERY HARD stop into Rose Av (red light), gave the passenger a small lecture, and then just opened the doors and let him off.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YROK CITY!!!!!!
Da Hui
I was in San Francisco recently and those ETI trolleybuses (I believe they are Czeck)are very nice. The acceleration and stopping is a little unnerving for someone accustomed to buses. I am all for using those in any New York City system.
As for crowd carrying capacity, SF has articulated TBs, which seem to haul quite a bit of passengers.
I don't think the Brooklyn TBs would have had much impact on air quality had they survived becuase it was a somewhat small network. Expanding would have started to make inroads.
I have always envisioned using atriculated TBs on the M-15 and converting the western most two lanes of First Avenue into a two-way (north and southbound) right of way on which the TBs could operate. Any takers?
TD
I was in LA recently and they are making a brave attempt at bringing back some rail transit, but so far only the tourist and very poor have been riding. That's a start because in LA to the very poor car ownership is not possible.
But I digress from buses.
TD
Those trolleys are Skodas and they are indeed Czech. The artics, I believe, are New Flyer D60LF
What do you always see on house or apartment ads?
"Close to good schools, shopping, etc." In few places you're lucky enough to add, "Close to transit".
More vague circle logic from yours truely.
Still, Newark seems to be very well served by bus routes. I always loved to amble over to Newark Penn Station to pick up a batch of connecting bus line schedules. Was always amazed at the number of different routes in that city. It seems as though almost every neighborhood has more than one line serving it.
Maybe it's not as extensive as it once was. But for anyone wishing to explore the "real" Newark, the grid is well covered. It's a rotten shame that Newark has to continuously pay for a period of social unrest. It has a great pedestrian oriented infrastructure. And you know what? In time I believe it will come into its' own again.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
As a parent, I can tell you that a good school system was the number one consideration for my wife and I when we bought our current house. 'Close to transit' isn't worth much if you're worried about your kids being exposed to drugs and violence in school.
Jim D.
I think I'd be very happy if existing trolley bus systems merely maintained their present status (although I would personally welcome expanding and bringing on new trolley bus systems). I was deeply disappointed at Toronto's decision about a decade back to abandon its trolley bus system. And it is highly questionable, last I heard, whether another trolley bus will ever run in Philadelphia.
My own opinion is that rating trolley buses versus other mass transit forms (bus, light rail, etc.) is a little off point. Different forms of mass transit should complement each other, not compete with one another. Trolley buses probably would have appropriate roles in many major city transit systems without worrying if they are better than buses or light rail.
Either way, there's a classic example of an area with benefical points to ETB conversions. There's a few routes with the sheer # of buses and usage that would be very effective. What would be the $ figures alone that would be saved on routes like the 14,58,or 20 bus? Let alone routes south of the "FTC". Poles already exist in most places, it would only be like adding an extra wire.
I don't know if you can existing telephone poles, wood or concrete ones, or you need to put new ones up. But how expensive can it be? New powerlines and cables wires are strung up all the time!
Plus, at least it isn't these phoney trolley buses that replaced them, those things seriously give me noise induced headaches.
Perhaps Boston is starting to move things again in a positive ETB direction. I believe the electric trolleys should be operating on the Silver Line between South Station and the new Convention Center area sometime later this year. I saw the wire in place at the Convention Center end of the line during the Motor Bus Society Convention in Boston this past October.
The PCCs on Market Street ("F-line") arrived in 1995. They replaced the 8-Market trolleycoach line. In 1999-2000, the F-line expanded to Pier 39 via Embarcadero and replaced the 32-Embarcadero motorbus line.
GP38 mentions that buses were supposed to replace surface rail service on Market Street, but I believe (could be wrong) that Muni had planned to maintain the surface trackage in the event that the LRT subway was out of service.
And Market Street itself has a lot more transit service than just the F-line. Dozens of bus lines - diesel and trolley - travel Market Street at some point. There are four side-by-side-by-side-by-side lanes of trolley wire - two in each direction. Some routes operate in the inner lane and board at islands every couple blocks (including the PCCs) and other routes (generally the less-busy routes) operate in the outer lanes and stop at the curb.
Should the MTA be playing favorites with languages? If they're willing to put up signs in Spanish, they're leaving out all of the other languages that exist in NYC! What if all the other foreigners started complaining that the MTA isn't doing enough to meet customer needs of people who speak languages OTHER than English and Spanish? What if they feel it's wrong for the MTA to translate signs for the Spanish speakers, but not for anyone else?
Im emergency situations, like when the (7) wasn't running to Main Street at all, the MTA put up handwritten signs in Chinese and Korean as well.
I think the MTA should stop translating signs altogether. All new immigrants should be learning to speak English. Translating everything just tells them that they don't HAVE to learn English, because politically correct companies will try to play down to them by catering to THEIR language.
What's your opinion on this?
Second, variety is what makes cities great. The presence of other langauges - whether you understand them or not - adds to a rich and unique ambience. If you want to hear only English and see only white people, you can go to the suburbs. Cities are places for people, and in today's big cities, those people come from many different backgrounds and bring their traditions, customs, and languages with them. If you take a moment to respect those other cultures, you'll surely come to appreciate them.
And for your information, many immigrants do try to learn English. But English is a ridiculous language, and becoming proficient can be an ongoing process. MTA is wise and considerate for posting information in other languages. It's not fair to "hide" important information from people who don't read English yet.
In emergency situations, like when the (7) wasn't running to Main Street at all, the MTA put up handwritten signs in Chinese and Korean as well.
You're disproving your complaint right here. Obviously, MTA knows its territory linguistically. So they don't play favorites. They post in other languages where it's approriate to do so. In Toronto, one of the most diverse cities in the world, TTC offers transit information in 140 languages! I think it's great.
Incidentally, if you're interested in bus/train scheduling, I highly recommend looking into verbal structures of romance languages (of which Spanish is one). The pattern of conjugating verbs and matching verb tenses is a lot like blocking buses and cutting runs.
You state that our "English only" attitude is a big part of what makes us "disreputable" to much of the rest of the world. First of all, I would challenge that much of the rest of the world finds us disreputable. I'd agree that much of the world finds us arrogant, but I'd venture that only a small number (relatively speaking) think we're disreputable. Further, those who do think we're disreputable probably think so because of our foreign policies, not because of language. I have found that what people in other countries dislike is that a lot of Americans who travel abroad do not attempt to speak the language of the land, but rather expect English to be understood THERE. The feeling is that when we travel to their countries, we should try to speak their language. Well, then, the same should apply here, no?
Having said that, I have nothing against government agencies posting signs in multiple languages. While it is my belief that anyone who chooses to live here should learn English, it's not a legal requirement, and the responsibility of government agencies is to serve ALL the people to the best of their abilities.
I can't claim to be much of a world traveler, but I've been to a few foreign countries whose main language is other than English. When I went to southern France, I noticed that the signs on the buses and railroads were in French. In Italy, the signs were in Italian. It's true that those places where I visited don't have nearly the number of immigrants from foreign lands that New York does, so the need for multi-lingual signage can't be compared to New York's. However, in most places, if you want to live there, you have to know the language. If I wanted to move to France, I would expect to have to know how to speak French. If I wanted to move to Spain, I would expect to have to know how to speak Spanish. I don't think it should be any different here.
Frankly, I think it would be great if the whole world would speak ONE language. While remembering one's cultural roots is important, it would go a long way toward promoting brotherhood if everyone could talk to and understand everyone else. That applies at the local level, too.
Besides, anyone who watches Star Trek knows that by the 23rd century, even people from other star systems will be speaking English! ;-)
All these depot swap proposals do is shuffle deck chairs on the Titanic.
David
That's it, that's all, that's everything. No more depot swap suggestions, please.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
First, the B-8 (since everyone wants to move it) goes to Flatbush. If you look at the schedule, many of the run-ons and run-offs, particularly on week-ends, operate between Rockaway Ave and Nostrand Ave which is a quick deadhead to the Flatbush depot. This is an improvement over the current deadheads between Rockaway Ave and Jackie Gleason. There must be a reason for the Nostrand Ave run-ons/run-offs if someone at TA has not thought of moving the B-8 to Flatbush.
Now, you can not move anything to Flatbush without taking something out. The B-49 would then move to Ulmer Park. Deadheads between Flatbush and Manhattan Beach and Ulmer Park and Manhattan Beach are comparable. Reliefs could be made at Ave U and Ocean Ave having the operators use the B-3 between Ulmer Park and the relief point. Also, the schedules have removed many of the run-ons and run-offs at Avenue R allowing the operators to deadhead from the garage to Manhattan Beach.
Now, you can not move anything to Ulmer Park without taking something out. The B-1 (and maybe the B-4) to Jackie Gleason. There are those who want the B-1 to go to Gleason anyway so here you go.
The number of buses required on the B-8, B-49, and the B-1 are about the same so it is feasible from that standpoint. The B-8 becomes more efficient, the B-49 is probably a wash, and the B-1 becomes less efficient since a majority of ridership is east of Stillwell Ave.
No run-offs or run-ons operate between Rockaway Avenue and Nostrand Avenue. There are some short-turns at Nostrand Avenue during the AM and PM peaks, which provide supplementary service on the eastern end of the line, which is by far the heaviest part.
Similarly, the peak direction on the B49 (at least on weekdays) is southward in the morning and northward in the afternoon. Most of the run-ons to Manhattan Beach are in the afternoon.
David
I also have some of the sort-of HO scale GM Fishbowls, too.
Other items might be added during the week (such as HO scale MCI Renaissance.)
Look for seller "sjh50".
All chance.
It depends what you're going for. I just looked up digital camera's, and well, like you said, the deals aren't that great for what I saw.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
(eBay ID: flxible)
B. "Busfan" has a valid point. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cursing has no place here, except to make the person who does it look immature. It adds NOTHING to the conversation.
David
If you do not like what someone posts here then take it up with powers to be who operate this web page and ask them to take corrective actions
Thank You
ANSWER: 7091-7220 AM Generals/5001-5043 MAN artics at Bladensburg
9501-9576 Neoplans at Southeast
2]Before the arrival of the Flxible Metros, there were two WMATA buses numbered 8800 and 4000. What were they and why they were here?
ANSWER: 8800 was a '68 T6H5305A. 4000 was a '70 Flxible 111Cd-061
They were replacements from NYCTA for two WMATA buses that
were lost while they were loaned to the NYCTA. The two
buses were lost when the pier they were parked on in Staten
Island collapsed in a fire.
3]What was the largest single bus order WMATA made?
ANSWER: The 620 bus order from AM General in 1974 [7000-7499/7500-
7619]
4]In 1979 WMATA was one of the first transit systems to get what type of bus?
ANSWER: MAN Articulated bus. 5001-5043 were 55 feet long.
5]What is the largest, and the smallest WMATA garages?
ANSWER: Bladensburg is the largest, Arlington is the smallest
6]Ride-On was the largest user of what manufacturer's bus?
ANSWER: The TMC Citycruiser Ride-on had 155 of them [5102-5256]
built in two orders in 1980 [32] and 1981 [123].
7]When did Fairfax Connector start operating and where?
ANSWER: In 1985, in the SE corner of Fairfax County [Huntington,
Franconia, Mt. Vernon, Route 1 area]
8]What does CUE stand for?
ANSWER: City-University-Energysaver This is a joint operating entity
between the City of Fairfax, and George Mason University.
Hey I didn't do too bad. Still should have known what CUE stood for.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
I would say the GM New Look holds the record and hope that I can say the same for Flxible ADBs, but at the rate they are getting replaced, I don't see it as likely. They do have an impressive track record of spanning four decades (70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s)...and still look new.
-F.
Also the constant meddling of Federal regulations [designed to placate interest groups, and for changing safety considerations] oftern require the constant replacement of equipment.
Today, a GM Old Look cannot pass Federal muster because of all of the subsequent regulations passed since their manufacture. ADA, Clean Air Act, and other regulations both major and minor would make this model bus quite illegal today.
Remember, regulation [as we know it today] did not exist back in the day. Back then the bus had to meet the bare minimum standards provided by the Federal Gov't, and that's it. Today, that "bare minimum" is about a few thousand pages long.
It is so strange to think of the Fishbowl design as being 45 years old. It looks classic, yet somehow familiarly modern in its own right. That must be why you see so many on TV and in the movies.
-F.
Those are alot more asthetic changes than the New Looks went through, aside from placing a window here or a marker light there. And that's after almost 27 years of production mind you.
Newer RTS models do not have this panel:
-F.
I don't know how good that is considering GM cars were basically junk at the time and even though they've gotten better over the years... their styling is still less than desirable. GM obviously did the right thing with the new-looks and even it's intercity buses, but they lost their way after that. That actually makes since because it was also in the 70's when their cars became slow, inefficient and unreliable.
MetroB
The estimate for a new lane on urban highways for this project sounds WAY low to me.
MetroB
What's next? NYCTA MCI 2905 on the Q44 and Orion 6132 on the X51? ;-)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The Frozen Five survived the day and we had a really fun time. We made the best of a very cold day and had excellent connections so it really limited the amount of time outside.
And don't forget the Zamboni machine we saw at Pentagon!;-)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Everyone sure did hold up ok. I was really concerned this morning, but everyone was gung ho about it so we made the best of it, dressed warmly (minus Chris D. losing his glove), and had a great time.
Maybe I should have warned you about those RIBS routes. They seem to go through every subdivision, house, room in the house and even on the roofs of some houses. I took the RIBS 2 to Herndon P&R from Reston Town Center and it went everywhere. Was nice to hear you had fun in the cold cold weather. Also good to hear no news reports of busfancicles out there, LOL!!!
The all you can ride RIBS only lasted one plateful this time around. : (. Maybe, we can try a different platter the next time we head up to Reston Town Center. We were joking that some of the routing that the RIBS 1 took was political, such as the loop through an apartment building whose main entrance was about 100 feet away from another bus stop on the street. It took longer for us to complete the cirlce than it would for someone to just walk to the main road and catch the bus. That 605 was an interesting route though, and I'd like to take that one again.
Most of the fleet (in NYCT) is kept indoors. The depots are equpiied with overhead industrial heaters that keep the buses warm. In weather like this, the average temperature inside a depot-housed bus would be about 75 degrees, depending upon the area in which it's parked. Warmer directly below a heater, and obviously much cooler away from one.
Buses that are parked outdoors will be started and run by drillers on "fire watch" who ensure the bus will run at the ready for pullout.
Many buses simply won't start in this sort of coldness when stored outdoors. Therefore, the maintenance department will be at the ready to jump-start the bus with air or electricity. Whatever buses cannot be started with this method will be assigned to the BO line and have the battery replaced or externally charged.
How does a depot which CANNOT really store buses indoors, like Gun Hill (which really has only maintainance operations inside the building) manage to keep its many (like 300+ buses I think) from freezing, since they are stored outside at all times, and then driven into the depot for maintainance? will there be enough time for drillers to start every bus?
MetroB
MetroB
MetroB
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com, allisonb500r@aol.com)
There are never buses parked outside the limits of QV depot. We do not ever use the street to park a bus. Luckily, we have enough real estate to contain all buses within the property, although not enough to keep them all indoors.
On that note, can anyone tell me where to shoot the ether on a 6V92-powered Flx with DDEC should the need arise? Any help is welcome.
-Fred
My favorite sign reading---37-3rd Av Ft.Hamilton.
BIG AL
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentintid=36325
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group
I assume the year shown (2004) is the year the contract will be signed. Delivery is not likely for a year or more after that.
As New Flyer is not proposing to manufacture any more high floor buses (as far as I know), it will be interesting to see what type of artics NYCT winds up getting. Perhaps the testing of the Minneapolis low-floor New Flyer artic will help determine the answer.
David
Jackie Gleason in Bklyn, West Farms in the Bronx.
And the Newest addition will be: Manhattanville
It is expected to be completed by the END of 2005.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
MetroB
Since I am a Flxible/Orion Fan I would choose these....
If memory serves me right, I think they were TDH-5101s.
(To bad none of the TA's TDH-4510s survived)
The location was just a little north of the 126 Street Depot.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group
The URL will be www.transitalk.info. Once you click into that, you will get a graphics style menu for 3 sites. One for a Site Called Stop Requested, which is taking the place of old transitalk.org, One For The TransiTALK Online Store and the last will be for a TV show airing in the borough of Manhattan called Transit Zone.
Its taking sometime because of all of the expansion going on, also I'm doing some serious staff revamping, getting rid of those that haven't contributed anything and so on.
The will definately be back up in time for our 6 year anniversary!
Regards.
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group
My understanding is that NJTransit is rehabbing the Metro B's in-house to get several more years of service out of them.
This would have the B64 travel along the B1 path to Shore Rd & 71st St & the B1 travel along the B64 path but instead of terminating service at 86th St & 4th Av, extend the service to Shore Rd & north along Shore Rd to Shore Rd & 71st St, renumber the B1 to the B86.
David
David
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
If anyone does, please post it on Bustalk.
No nonsense posts.
You seem to be the only one. So, what have you heard.
Answers will be posted on Tuesday.
the date on the pic says 1975, if I recall correctly, the RTS did not exist in 1975.
-F.
There is something strange also about the operator's pants.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
The uniform is correct for the time, but no Advanced Design Bus was yet being made in production.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
BIG AL
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
BIG AL
-F.
That's not entirely true. Since 1981, all VINs have a model year code. NYBS's first batch of GMDD Fishbowls, though delivered in late 1981, are 1982 models.
According to the delivery list at OMOT, 200 was delivered to Spokane in November, 1978, after having been a demonstrator for NYCTA. Of course, lists aren't always accurate; Big Al may be right that it was '79. I wasn't around yet :).
BIG AL
-F.
BIG AL
-F.
Spotted somewhere in D.C. this previous summer.
I too think that these giants of the road were absolutely gorgeous, optimized the golden age of bus travel....and the heyday of Greyhound. Perhaps they are....the quintessential Greyhound.
I am not sure if any are still in scheduled service, though I would seriously doubt it. I would bet that there are some churches, schools, or private individuals who run them though.
The last known service that I can document through books I have, was Abbott Trailways Co. out of Roanoke (I believe we have an employee of Abbott here on the board maybe he can comment..) There is a very cool pic of a couple of Scenicruisers sitting in a snowy parking lot with a modern looking paint job, photo taken in the "early 80's". That book, by Larry Plachno, is 'Modern Intercity Coaches'
Where did you learn about them and see how they look? On line pics? I'll try to find some pics and e mail em to you if I find interior shots.
Dash 80
I'd just recently learned about Scenicruisers by old Greyhound pictures. They looked so cool, I had to do more research on them.
Something here that you might find interesting; A website dedicated to scenicruisers with chat forums.
www.scenicruiser.com
I really wish GM would bring these back, in a more fuel efficient and powerful form of course. Hell, put a CAT in those things!
-Fred
It was buggin' me.
Yep...the music business and churchs sure ended up with alot of the good ones...they still have alot...but mostly MCI's as far as the churches go, I believe.
E-mail me for more details if you want to find one of the above; I also custom paint these to match your favorite livery.
-F.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
That's probably due to the fact that they have Allison B500R transmissions. All Allison trannies jerk alot compared to Voith, but when you run buses in a system like NYC, where acceleration at low speeds is crucial, Allisons are better.
Da Hui
B1-#9317-NOVABUS
B3-#7520-REMAN RTS
B44 NovaBus #9450
B54 NovaBus #9465
B65 C40LF #905
The Orion VII has only been in production a short time, so there's still plenty of time to make their way to the Island, and/or MTA Regional Bus (or whoever ends up getting the NYCDOT companies).
JD
It did feel wierd riding in the low floor part since everthing was so incredibly high up, and the driver was towering over you. I was disappointed that there was only the regular stop requested sign, instead of the LED info center, like the first orion 7 had.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
5900? UH, oh, will Ride-On have to go into the 6000s soon, or will it just go back to 5100 etc...
Is it Green/Yellow or Blue/White?
100s: Hell Dorados
200s: Fords
lower 300s: 30 ft Gilligs
upper 300s/400s: 35 ft Gilligs
upper 500s/600s: 35 ft Orions, diesel and CNG
700s: 40 footers (Flxible and Orion)
800s: 40 ft CNGs (this is why the Orion VIs got renumbered but the first 3 Orion Vs did not most likely)
900s: Low floor CNGs
The lower 500s and all but 12 200s are still available as are many of the numbers in the 400s, 600s, 700s, 800s, and 900s. Ride-On shouldn't have go worry about abandoning the three digit numbering system it has anytime soon.
Just felt like piling on...
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
I'd have to go with R142/143Man on the paint scheme of those Ride On O7s; I thought it looked ugly too.
OK -It's fine and dandy if you don't like it, but something like styling is quite subjective.
U G L Y ! ! !
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
The first bus is 35 feet long.
Size doesnt mean quality....;-)
Since ours aren't in service yet, I would have to say ours look better (except for the orange destination signs which have yet to win me over).
Sure it can...
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Now go read the thread and figure it out.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Peace,
Kevin
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Thanks.
For NYCT buses: Staten Island and Queens Division (except for a few buses such as 4309 and 4461), as well as Mother Hale and some Ulmer Park buses (4497, 9295-9341) have the E-Z Pass on the roof in front of the radio antenna. The giveaway: a flat slanted structure on the roof of the bus that looks like a second antenna. (Some CS Orions have the structure behind the antenna.)
All of the structures are on the roof of the bus, except for QSC, where it is by the front window inside, ahead of the farebox.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Kevin
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Kevin
"In fires" is an understatement; completely obliterated in CNG explosions is more like it.
Peace,
Kevin
As I have posted here before...I used to catch the 'Golden Eagle' service...hostess on board those Continental Trailways Eagles..with all the food and beverages and comfort items of a modern day airline flight.
Private did have a couple Pace Orion Is, but for parts only. I think they're gone.
APM is NOT bringing out anything new. I think they gave up the ghost as far as going through the expense of making models.
"You are not authorized to view this page."
Does anyone know if APM is still in business?
Thanks,
Danny
That page seems okay now. Too bad EFE or OOC does not make a New Look in 1/76.
Thanks,
Danny
I just did an "ho bus" search on e-bay and came up with a Pirate model new look. Also saw a "new look" listing, which seems to be that die-cast toy New Look (about 1/72 scale), which at one time was being sold at the Transit Museum store in GCT. The bus has a run-back feature. It is is pleasent to look at, but the wheels are oversized and can ruin the effect. Anybody who is handy could put some correct wheels on and do some nice detailing.
Cheers,
"El Omnibus Ingles"
-F.
Regards
"El Omnibus Ingles"
-F.
Take lots of pictures of these babies now.
-F.
-F.
-F.
Early 2002, for Dallas.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Jim D.
-F.
I'm not a big Orion fan, but in '93 when the NYCTA rec'd it's first Orions I was so happy to see something else out there. When I go home I routinely pass up the RTS if I can get something else.
On that note, I have a Metro magazine from late 1995 that is chock full of Flxible Metro ads and proclaims them as America's leading bus manufacturer in several articles. The front cover is one of beauty; it features a Metro E sitting proudly in NYCTA colors with the WTC in the background. If only both had survived....
-Fred
Amazingly, by the end of next year RTS buses will comprise only 40% of the MBTA fleet after all of those new NABI and Neoplan buses are in service. Quite a change from their dominance since the early 90's.
Jim D.
Routes Still Using RTS:
Operated By Laidlaw Transit (35xx and 45xx)
51, 59, 60, 67, 80, 90, 106, 122, 138, 170, 186
Operated By ATC/Phoenix Transit North Division (44xx and 45xx)
35, 44, 106
Operated By ATC/Phoenix Transit South Division (44xx and 45xx)
10, 16, 50
Operated By ATC Phoenix (44xx)
61, 72, 81, 112, 156
The RTS Design should be revived. Perfered by a American Firm.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
2]Before the arrival of the Flxible Metros, there were two WMATA buses numbered 8800 and 4000. What were they and why they were here?
ANSWER: 8800 was a '68 T6H5305A. 4000 was a '70 Flxible 111Cd-061
They were replacements from NYCTA for two WMATA buses that
were lost while they were loaned to the NYCTA. The two
buses were lost when the pier they were parked on in Staten
Island collapsed in a fire.
3]What was the largest single bus order WMATA made?
ANSWER: The 620 bus order from AM General in 1974 [7000-7499/7500-
7619]
4]In 1979 WMATA was one of the first transit systems to get what type of bus?
ANSWER: MAN Articulated bus. 5001-5043 were 55 feet long.
5]What is the largest, and the smallest WMATA garages?
ANSWER: Bladensburg is the largest, Arlington is the smallest
6]Ride-On was the largest user of what manufacturer's bus?
ANSWER: The TMC Citycruiser Ride-on had 155 of them [5102-5256]
built in two orders in 1980 [32] and 1981 [123].
7]When did Fairfax Connector start operating and where?
ANSWER: In 1985, in the SE corner of Fairfax County [Huntington,
Franconia, Mt. Vernon, Route 1 area]
8]What does CUE stand for?
ANSWER: City-University-Energysaver This is a joint operating entity
between the City of Fairfax, and George Mason University.
I believe I also saw a corrected sign on the 3B, meaning that Arlington also fixed theirs.
-F.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-F.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Buses rode:
63038, 21 to New Carrolton-this bus is known(to me only)as the official W.E.S. bus, I get this thing practically everytime I head to New carrolton.
9728, F6 to the U of MD
4039, C2 to Wheaton
5717, 34 to Bethesda
2140, J2 to Montgomery Mall
5551, 47 to Rockville
5534, 63 to Shady Grove
5559, 55 Lakeforest
4399, J8 to Bethesda
4042, J4 to College Park
2049, F6 to New Carrolton-missing sneeze guard behind rear doors
9361, F14 to home-this buses back door didn't work, and it made a strange deceleration sound
Observations:
Finally saw 9221 laying over at Silver Spring
Saw 5705 heading towards Silver Spring
4042 was a rare thing to see on the J4, they usually use 9200s, and repowers.
Seeing a 2100 series on the J9. I would think that the 4400s would run this route since they are no longer needed on the Smartmover. As a matter of fact didn't see any 4400s at all today.
Saw both 5546 and 47. I got a pic of 5547
5806 has a dent which I think might have been there for at least a month.
Might have seen 8974 on the F8. If that is so, that means that the Cummins 89s are all back at Landover, YEA!!!
Other items:
Went to Ride On headquarters looked at the old photos of their THE BUS type buses, made various THE BUS jokes about THE BUS buying those old RIDE ON bus wannabees, and talked with Chris G(rideonrules) and Nick for a bit.
I was trying to see the Orion VII that came in didn't get to, it either was in the garage or somewhere I couldn't see it.
Oh well, I will be on another one tomorrow, to Arlington to take some pics of the Arlington O-5s, hopefully getting a pic of 4214, a rehabbed O-5 with an LED sign.
I saw something like sort of got me steamed. I saw a CAGV on the 21 and it was packed. I can understand an SLF, or a Chumpion, even an ODV, but a CAGV.
On Saturday, 1/10/04, Orion bus # 174 was spotted in revenue service on the BX 12 route. This route has been practically 100% served by the Artics for the past few years.
I made sure that the bus was not dead heading back to Gun Hill. I couldn't believe it at first, but sure enough there it was taking on passengers. This was about 3:45 pm.
I guess they were a little short on artics back on Saturday. Or maybe they had a hard time starting with the frigid weather we had. :-)
Thanks.
Da Hui
:)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
-F.
Did someone say the ADB bus? Didn't that one have tiny wheels and was too expensive for either Flx or GM to build. The RTS and the 870 were derivatives of the idea.
Here goes:
I do think there was a stop on the bus schedule in Manorville also, maybe near the old station site. Not a hundred percent sure on that though.
I have an old set of LIRR schedules from 1974. There was no "Montauk Branch" schedule at that time. It was called "Eastern Long Island", and had the Montauk Branch from Bellport to Montauk (Bay Shore to Patchogue was in the Babylon Branch schedule), and the mainline from Holtsville to Greenport on it (similar to the "City Zone Schedule", clumping the western stations together). Anyway, in 1974, apparently Manorville was already abandoned as a station as it is not listed. It does list Calverton, Jamesport, and Cutchogue yet though. The schedule has the Riverhead to Greenport mostly as the conecting bus service from Babylon.
And if anyone thinks east of KO service is bad now, there was only ONE train in each direction between Holtsville and Greenport. So the stations between Holtsville and Calverton only got ONE train each way, and they didn't even get the few buses that took care of Riverhead to Greenport, out of Babylon, where the buses started. That;s why they are on a skinny line in the scan below.
The Montauk Branch did not fair to much better. The stations between Bellport to Montauk only got 3 trains a day, with the rest of the service also provided by the buses out of Babylon.
So as bad as service seems now, it was much worse in the early 70's, and in the 60's as ntrainride mentioned. Below, see a photo of the "Eastern Long Island" schedule cover, and a thumbnail link to the "sheds" that ntrainride remember at Manorville. (The one below was taken at Calverton some years after the station was abandoned)
Calverton abandoned station site:
For what it's worth, the branch is the original route of the original Long Island Rail Road. To see trains still making the journey is heartening.
They used GMC subruban "fishbowl" buses, about ten of them total. They were numbered 367 to 375, and there was also a 501. The buses were marked "Owner: Soundside Country Day Camp / Operator: Huntington Coach Lines" in the first few years, and later that was changed to "Owner / Operator Huntington Coach Lines".
The buses were all painted in a very attractive looking orange and grey livery to match LIRR's train livery of the 1960's, but the buses did NOT have any "Dashing Dan" logos on them like the trains.
I actually painted a Corgi O scale bus in the LIRR livery, and sold it off on EBay. it now resides in Montreal, Quebec.
I just read the Q88 bus schedule and I noticed something. The Q88 makes a left on Junction Blvd and then a right on 62nd Dr, right on Queens Blvd and then another right on 59th Av. Where does the Q88 drop off passengers and sit? I know the first stop is on the corner of 59th Av and 92nd St. Why the change? Also, since when can you transfer to the X51 at Junction Blvd? I'm sorry if I'm behind but it's been a while since I've been on the Q88. Thanks in advance!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Peace
David
Those of us who comply with the regulation stand around the corner, just before the first stop at the rear end of the block (behind McDonalds). Then pull into the stand for boarding.
I was wondering if the Q31, X63 and X64 have been switched? I know it was suppose to happen BUT I just forgot when. Thanks in advance.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
OMG! A RESPONSE to a post!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Here are two teaser photos to wet your appetite:
ENJOY!
Either way, very decent pics, who's that in the rear door mirror though?
:)
and the pole directly in front of you, is that a stop request button trigger? For wheelchairs I assume, but I haven't seen one of those buttons since SEPTA, I like hitting the a lot better than the cords.
But anyway, as far as the computerized "ding" goes on brand new buses, I like the way they do it on NABI, with the 2 second delay. I'm trying to figure out exactly how it works on the Gillig Advantage, if you do it a certain way, you get it ding ding twice.
I wonder how the driver doesn't zone it out though and get distracted, if it wasnt' for a dashboard light, i could see myself doozing off and not pay attention.
Depending on the type of route, the driver knows where people get off and on and will stop even if the bell isn't pulled.
But anyway, as far as the computerized "ding" goes on brand new buses, I like the way they do it on NABI, with the 2 second delay. I'm trying to figure out exactly how it works on the Gillig Advantage, if you do it a certain way, you get it ding ding twice.
I wonder how the driver doesn't zone it out though and get distracted, if it wasnt' for a dashboard light, i could see myself doozing off and not pay attention.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
;)
If he says anything interesting when I listen to the webcast tomorrow afternoon or evening, I will post it here.
Yep, in Manhattan I think the M12, M13, M17, M19, M24, M25, M26, M28 (love that bus route...Whew!), M29, M32, M33, M36, M37, M38 and M38 LIMITED (can't forget that one), M39, M40, M41 (ah, I think the people that ride the "Culture Loop will have a surprise...LOL) and the M43.
In the Bronx, the Bx23, Bx37, Bx38, Bx43, Bx44, Bx45, Bx46, Bx47, Bx48 (That bus route is great...has anyone been on that one yet?), Bx49, Bx50, Bx51, Bx52, Bx53, Bx54 and Bx56 (another "Cultural Loop").
I hope that helps Busfan! So, enjoy and remember the MTA is going your way. Well, then again....
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
but anyway, I just got a camera today, and here's the first pic i took right outside of BigLots(cheap batteries to turn it on!).
http://techno79.20m.com/PSTA/how/Pict0006.jpg
Now if only I could've made more than one look good.....the Fall sun is a nightmare.
BIG AL
Now if only I had the ability to travel the way I want to(or did briefly). Some of these sites are getting stale to me now locally.
;)
Too bad I didn't get a pic of this one bus though, the readerboard thing read: "19 Manhatten" that would've been ironic on here.
Note: If you see a (A) next to a route that means that particular line sees periodical articulated buses
Effective As of TODAY!
1999 Orion 05.501 #6111 on Southern Boulevard in The Bronx on the Bx19 Line.
NYCT Queens Division
Casey Stengel Depot
Routes: Q12, Q13, Q14, Q15, Q16, Q26, Q27, Q28, Q32 (w/MJQ), Q44/20, Q48, Q74, Q76, X32, X51
Number of Buses: 244
2000 New Flyer D45S: 996-998. (3X)
2002 MCI D4500: 2897-2907. (11X)
1993 Orion V: 101-119, 122, 138, 144, 146, 154, 227-232, 256-316. (91)
1994 Orion V: 401. (1)
1995 Orion V: 404, 425, 452-456, 535-542, 544-580, 623-630. (61)
1996 Orion V: 631-680. (50)
1999 Orion V: 6120-6141. (22)
Out of Service: 400 (Fire), 312 (Accident), 6136 (Accident).
Training Buses: 228, 580
Museum: 1000/8602 (1966 Blitz/GMC).
Jamaica Depot
Routes: Q3, Q4, Q5, Q17, Q42, Q77, Q84, Q85, X63, X64
Number of Buses: 193
2002 MCI D4500: 2853-2881. (29X)
1984 GMC RTS: 3469. (1)
1986 GMC RTS: PA4309, PA4335, PA4336, PA4340, PA4344, 4345-4347, 4352, 4494, 4499, 4509, 4538, 4555, 4558-4561, 4564, 4568-4571, 4575-4577, 4579-4582, 4584, 4585, 4589, 4594. (34)
1987 TMC RTS: 4851, 4878. (2)
1996 Nova RTS: 8939-8978, 9051, 9053-9056, 9065, 9070, 9072-9073, 9262-9269, 9278-9281, 9285, 9291, 9345-9349. (68)
1998 Nova RTS: 9535-9568. (34)
1999 Nova RTS: 5145-5169. (25)
Out of Service: 2877, 4579
Training Buses: 4564, 4571, 5169. Museum: 1059 (1961 GM-TDH 5301)
Queens Village Depot
Routes: Q1, Q2, Q30, Q31, Q36, Q43, Q46, Q75, Q79, Q83, Q88, X32 (w/CS), X68
Number of Buses: 238
2002 MCI D4500: 2882-2896. (15X)
1995 Orion V: 505-534, 611-622. (42)
1985 GMC RTS: 4019. (1)
1986 GMC RTS: PA4308, PA4334, 4461, 4484, 4501, 4508. (6)
1990 TMC RTS: 8352, 8355-8396. (43)
1996 Nova RTS: 9250-9252, 9253, 9254-9259, 9260-9261, 9286-9290, 9292-9294. (20)
1998 Nova RTS: 9350-9381. (32)
1999 Nova RTS: 4900-4944. (45)
1996 GMC RTS Reman: 7002-7006, 7008-7016, 7018-7037. (34)
Training Buses: 532, 533, 4916, 8357, 9352.
Museum: 3100 (1956 GMC); 100 (1959 GMC); 5117 (1964 Flxible); 4727(1970 Flxible)
____________________________________
2000 New Flyer C40LF Low Floor #930 on Brighton Beach Avenue in Brooklyn on the B68 Line.
NYCT Brooklyn Division
East New York Depot
Routes: B7, B12, B14, B15, B17, B20 (w/FP), B25, B42, B45, B51, B60, B82, B83, Q24, Q56
Number of Buses: 286
1986 GMC RTS: 4360, 4393, 4394, 4408, 4410, 4411, 4413, 4418, 4421, 4422, 4424, 4425, 4428, 4430, 4543. (15)
1987 TMC RTS: 4629, 4632, 4635, 4637, 4638, 4641, 4642, 4649, 4669, 4674, 4872, 4890, 4891. (13)
1990 TMC RTS: 8047, 8063, 8077, 8079, 8088, 8091-8097, 8100-8129, 8201, 8340-8350. (54)
1993 TMC RTS: 8449-8450, 8453, 8455-8457, 8460. (7)
1994 TMC RTS: 8694-8703. (10)
1996 Nova RTS: 8899-8923, 8925, 8927-8929, 8931-8936, 8938, 9030-9033, 9035, 9036, 9040-9041, 9052, 9057-9064, 9066-9069, 9071, 9074-9076. (62)
1999 Nova RTS: 4945-5024, 5205-5249. (125)
Police: PA1712, 3922.
MUSEUM: 313(1917 Double Decker)
Training Bus: 4949
Flatbush Depot
Routes: B2, B31, B41, B44, B46, B47, B49
Number of Buses: 283
1985 GMC RTS: 4214, 4215. (2)
1986 GMC RTS: PA4301, PA4302, 4437, 4439, 4440, 4441, 4444, 4446, 4450. (9)
1987 TMC RTS: 4600, 4602, 4604, 4614, 4616, 4618-4628, 4643-4645, 4654-4657, 4814, 4822. (25)
1990 TMC RTS: 8018-8029, 8031-8032, 8035, 8040, 8045-8046, 8066, 8073-8074, 8088, 8130, 8137-8138, 8140, 8142-8146, 8148-8150, 8154, 8156, 8159, 8162-8165, 8317-8330, 8332-8339. (64)
1993 TMC RTS: 8401-8439, 8441, 8443-8444, 8447-8448. (44)
1998 Nova RTS: 9382-9458. (77)
1999 Nova RTS: 5075-5124. (50)
1997 GMC RTS Reman: 7000, 7500-7510. (12)
Out of Service: 8143 (Engine), 9393 (Accident)
Training Bus: 5080, 5084, 8026, 8324, 8337
Fresh Pond Depot
Routes: B13, B20 (w/ENY), B24, B26, B38, B39, B48, B52, B54, B57, Q54, Q55, Q58, Q59
Number of Buses: 251
1987 TMC RTS: 4676, 4681, 4686, 4696, 4699, 4701, 4702, 4704-4710, 4712-4717, 4719, 4720, 4722-4725, 4728, 4729, 4731-4734, 4736-4739, 4745-4749, 4833. (42)
1990 TMC RTS: 8000-8008, 8010-8013, 8015-8017, 8132-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166, 8168-8171. (38)
1993 TMC RTS: 8518-8566. (49)
1996 Nova RTS: 9140-9175. (36)
1998 Nova RTS: 9459-9487, 9569-9605. (66)
1999 Nova RTS: 5055-5074. (20)
Out of Service: 4695 (Scrap), 4721 (Scrap), 8009 (Scap).
NYC Mobile Bus Command Center: 4149 (1985 RTS-04)
Training Bus: 8131, 8141, 8169, 9591.
The Jackie Gleason Depot
Routes: B8, B9, B11, B16, B23, B35, B37, B43, B61, B63, B65, B67, B68, B69, B70, B71, B75, B77
Number of Buses: 321
1999 New Flyer C40LF: 800-856. (57)
2000 New Flyer C40LF: 857-989. (133)
1994 Orion V CNG: 317. (1)
1995 Orion V CNG: 581-610. (30)
2002 Orion VII CNG: 7560, 7562-7652. (92)
1987 TMC RTS: 4646, 4647, 4648, 4658, 4660, 4664, 4667, 4668. (8)
Out of Service: 4671 (Scrap), 7560 (@ Orion)
MetroCard Sales: 1291, PA2504 (Two 1981 GM-RTS-04s)
Training Bus: 949.
Museum: 1201 (1981 GMC), 2969/4789 (1948 GMC), 3758 (1963 GMC), 5227/4401 (1970 GMC), 6259 (1956 Mack), 8466 (1966 GMC), 8928 (1968 GMC).
Hospital Audiences Buses: PA1848, 4219
Ulmer Park Depot
Routes: B1, B3, B4, B6, X25, X27/37, X28/38, X29, B36, B64, B74, F Shuttle
Number of Buses: 290
2000 MCI D4500: 2755-2804. (50X)
2001 MCI D4500: 2165-2209. (45X)
2002 MCI D4500: 2908-2924. (17X)
1985 GMC RTS: 3962, 3969, 3970. (3)
1986 GMC RTS: PA4330, PA4331, PA4332, 4452, 4458, 4468, 4497. (7)
1987 TMC RTS: 4650-4651, 4663, 4665, 4672, 4673, 4677, 4682-4684, 4694, 4756, 4759, 4762, 4764, 4767, 4769, 4771-4772, 4774-4775, 4777-4783, 4785-4787, 4789-4790, 4854-4855, 4857, 4858, 4860-4861, 4863, 4865-4867, 4869. (43)
1994 TMC RTS: 8671-8693. (23)
1996 Nova RTS: 9077-9110, 9176-9185, 9295-9341. (91)
1996-98 GMC RTS Reman: 7512, 7518-7524, 7528, 7531, 7533. (11)
Out of Service: 2763 (Accident), 4862 (Scrap), 9317.
@ Zerega: 2185 (damaged at WTC--to be re-stored/repainted).
Training Buses: 8678, 8679, 9100, 9302
Museum: 236 (1980 Grumman 870)
____________________________________
2003 Orion 07.501 Low Floor #7610 on Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn on the B68 Line.
NYCT Staten Island Division
Castleton Depot
Routes: S40/90, S42, S46/96, S48/98, S51/81, S52, S53/93, S54, S57, S60, S62/92, S66/67, S76/86, S78, X10/11, X12/42, X13, X14, X16, X18, X20, X22, X30, X31
Number of Buses: 330
1993 Orion V: 121, 123-132, 134, 137, 139, 162, 165, 166-172. (23)
1995 Orion V: 471-472, 474-504. (33)
1999 Orion V: 6142-6266. (125)
1998 MCI 102DL3: 1952-1997, 1999-2039. (87X)
1999 MCI 102DL3: 2040-2074. (35X)
2002 MCI D4500: 2825-2852. (27X)
NYPD: 3307 (1986 GMC-RTS 06 #4505).
Yukon Depot
Routes: S44/94, S55/56, S59, S61/91, S74/84, S79, X1-9, X15, X17/19
Number of Buses: 379
1999 Orion V: 6267-6349. (83)
1998 MCI 102DL3: 1860-1951. (92X)
1999 MCI 102DL3: 2075-2139. (65X)
2000 MCI D4500: 2705-2754. (50X)
2001 MCI D4500: 2140-2164. (25X)
2001 MCI D4500: 2805-2824. (20X)
1985 GMC RTS: 3901, 3949, 4129. (3)
1986 GMC RTS: PA4342, 4390. (2)
1987 TMC RTS: 4741, 4743, 4744, 4754, 4755, 4893-4897. (10)
1990 TMC RTS: 8293-8315. (23)
1996-98 GMC RTS Reman: 7017, 7043-7047, 7049. (6)
Out of Service: 6343 (Accident), 4380 (Scrap), 4742 (Scrap)
At Carlton Yard: 1908, 1936, 2100, 2139, 2161
Training Buses: 8299, 8300.
Museum: 2151 (1962 GMC), 7340 (1973 Flxible)
____________________________________
1987 TMC RTS-06 #4849 on Southern Boulevard in The Bronx as a Swing Bus.
NYCT/MaBSTOA Manhattan Division
126th Street Depot
Standard Routes: M31, M35 (A), M57 (A), M66, M116 (A)
Artic Routes: M15
Number of Buses: 171
2003 New Flyer D60HF: 5594-5612, 5614-5618, 5620-5638, 5640-5683. (87)
1990 TMC RTS: 8212-8220, 8222, 8225, 8227, 8229, 8232-8233, 8236-8238. (18)
1993 TMC RTS: 8440, 8442, 8445, 8446, 8451, 8452, 8454, 8458, 8459, 8461-8517. (66)
Training Buses: 8454, 8458.
100th Street Depot
Routes: M86, M101-103
Number of Buses: 120
1997 New Flyer D60HF: 1000-1033. (34)
2002 New Flyer D60HF: 5510-5559. (50)
2003 New Flyer D60HF: 5560-5593, 5619, 5639. (36)
Training Bus: 1025.
Manhattanville Depot
Routes: M3, M4, M5, M10, M11, M18, M104
Number of Buses: 240
1998 Orion VI HEV: 6350-6353. (4)
2000 Orion VI HEV: 6359. (1)
1990 TMC RTS: 8240-8242, 8244-8250, 8252-8253, 8256, 8258-8261, 8263-8264, 8266, 8269, 8270, 8272, 8275, 8276, 8282-8284, 8286, 8290-8292. (32)
1995 Nova RTS: 8750-8751. (2)
1996 Nova RTS: 8752-8777. (26)
1998 Nova RTS: 9488-9534, 9606-9654. (96)
1999 Nova RTS: 5025-5054, 5125-5144, 5170-5204. (85)
Museum: 7144 (1956 GMC), 9098 (1956 GMC)
Training Buses: 5134, 8800, 9488, 9618.
Michael J. Quill Depot
Standard Routes: M6, M8, M9, M14 (A), M16/34, M20, M21, M22, M27/50, M30, M42, M72, M96/106, M98, Q32 (w/CS), X26, X90
Articulated Routes: M23, M79
Number of Buses: 305
1997 New Flyer D60HF: 1034-1069. (36)
1999 New Flyer D60HF: 5407. (1)
2003 New Flyer D60HF: 5715-5722, 5724-5733. (18)
1993 Orion V: 120, 133, 135-136, 140-143, 145, 147-153, 155-161, 163-164. (25)
1990 TMC RTS: 8173, 8178, 8179, 8191, 8198, 8200, 8202, 8203, 8207, 8209, 8221, 8228, 8230, 8231, 8234, 8235, 8251, 8254, 8255, 8257, 8265, 8267, 8268, 8271, 8280, 8285, 8287-8289, 8351, 8353-8354. (30)
1994 TMC RTS: 8600-8670. (71)
1996 Nova RTS: 8924, 8926, 8979-9029, 9034, 9037-9039, 9042-9050, 9186-9225, 9270-9272, 9273, 9274-9277, 9282-9284, 9342-9344. (105, 14)
1997 GMC RTS Reman: 7038-7042. (5)
Out of Service: 4810 (Scrap), 8278 (Scrap).
Training Buses: 1056, 8600, 8601, 8643, 8662.
____________________________________
2003 New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulated #5689 on Broadway in The Bronx on the Bx9 Line.
MaBSTOA Bronx Division
Gun Hill Depot
Standard Routes: BX25/26, BX28 (A), BX29, BX30, BX34
Articulated Routes: BX4, BX5, BX12, BX22, BX39, BX40/42, BX55
Number of Buses: 252
1999 New Flyer D60HF: 5250-5406, 5408-5421. (171)
1993 Orion V: 173-212, 240. (41)
1999 Orion V: 6111-6119. (9)
1987 TMC RTS: 4611, 4612. (2)
1996 Nova RTS: 8891-8898, 9229-9249. (29)
Sotred: 3906, PA4325, 7548, 8065.
Museum: 2124 (1938 Yellow Coach Double Decker)
Training Buses: PA2342 (1981 GMC), 240, 4400, 5250.
Kingsbridge Depot
Standard Routes: BX3, BX7, BX10, BX13, BX16, BX18, BX20, BX32, M100 (A)
Articulated Routes: BX1, BX2, BX9, BX41
Number of Buses: 258
1998 New Flyer D60HF: 1070-1074. (5)
1999 New Flyer D60HF: 5422-5509. (88)
2003 New Flyer D60HF: 5685-5714. (30)
1987 TMC RTS: 4609, 4797, 4803, 4845, 4853. (5)
1996 Nova RTS: 8807-8890. (84)
1998 Nova RTS: 9655-9699. (45)
Out of Service: 3562 (Scrap), 4615 (Scrap), 5455 (Fire), 5492 (Accident)
Training Buses: 8854-8856, 9655.
Mother Clara Hale Depot
Routes: M1, M2, M7, M60, BX33
Number of Buses: 132
1993 Orion V: 213-226, 233-239, 241-255. (36)
1998 Orion V: 6000. (1)
1999 Orion V: 6001-6090. (89)
1999 Orion VI HEV: 6354. (1)
2000 Orion VI HEV: 6355-6358. (4)
Training Buses: 250, 6010, 6028, 6070.
West Farms Depot
Standard Routes: BX6, BX8, BX11, BX14, BX15, BX17, BX21, BX27, BX31, BX35, BX36 (A)
Articulated Routes: BX19
Number of Buses: 251
1998 New Flyer D60HF: 1075-1109. (35)
1995 Orion V: 402-403, 405-424, 426-451, 457-470. (62)
1999 Orion V: 6091-6110. (20)
2002 Orion VII: 7655, 7657, 7659-7663, 7665, 7667-7668, 7670-7673, 7675. (15)
1986 GMC RTS: 4453. (1)
1987 TMC RTS: 4609, 4795, 4798, 4801, 4809, 4811, 4835, 4841, 4842. (7)
1990 TMC RTS: 8033, 8036, 8038, 8039, 8041-8044, 8048, 8050, 8052-8053, 8055, 8060, 8062, 8064, 8080, 8082-8084, 8086-8087, 8089, 8172, 8174-8177, 8180-8185, 8187-8190, 8192-8197, 8199, 8205, 8210, 8211. (48)
1996 Nova RTS: 8776-8806, 8930, 8937, 9111-9139, 9226-9228. (65)
1997 GMC RTS Reman: 7545. (1)
Training Buses: 461.
____________________________________
1995 Orion 05.501 #420 on Boston Road in The Bronx on the Bx21 Line.
Buses Removed From Service
CARLTON YARD
Carlton Avenue & Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn
45 Buses
RTS & Orions: 473, 3474, 3893, 3965, 4400, 4548, 4799, 4805, 4829, 4849, 4859, 7513, 7517, 7526, 7535, 7538, 7543, 7551, 7557, 8014, 8030, 8037, 8047, 8051, 8058, 8059, 8061, 8064, 8204, 8206, 8208, 8211, 8224, 8226, 8262, 8274, 8277, 8281, 8331.
MCI: 1908, 1936, 2100, 2139, 2161, 2877.
CROSSTOWN STORAGE YARD
Commercial & Box Streets, Brooklyn
21 Buses
RTS & Orions: 3529, 4163, PA4320, 4451, 4520, 4552, 4811, 4873, 4877, 4883, 7537, 7539-7540, 7542, 7544, 7547, 7550, 7553, 7554, 7558, 7559.
MTA NYC TRANSIT TRAINING FACILITY
Zerega CMF
1985 RTS: 3959, 3980, 4117. (3)
215th STREET YARD
W.215th Street & 10th Avenue, New York, NY
1987-90 RTS: 4449, 4844, 8034, 8054, 8056, 8057, 8067, 8070, 8071, 8072, 8076, 8078, 8081, 8186. (13)
AMSTERDAM DEPOT
1984-87 RTS: 3503, 3972, 4115, 4218, 4886. (5)
____________________________________
ENJOY!
Roster by: MH (TT Roster Admin)
Photos & Post by: TL (TT Top Admin)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
B6#8689Limited
PA4330 B64 (today)
PA4330 Bx7 (back in 1986)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Have you heard from NYCT on what bus routes (as of right now) are planning to go to Maspeth Bus Depot when it opens in a few years.
And please, if anyone else post any comments on this, DON'T use the F*** word or any other curse word.
A message intended for only one person should be conveyed by e-mail, not posted in a public forum.
[Have you heard from NYCT on what bus routes (as of right now) are planning to go to Maspeth Bus Depot when it opens in a few years.]
You've already asked this question (several times), and the answer has NOT changed: NYCT doesn't have ANY route assignment plans reflecting Mapeth Depot, because it's still far too early to make such plans. (The new depot hasn't even been designed yet; that process should take at least a year, followed by construction.)
There's your response. Please stop belaboring the Maspeth question.
BTW are you a new poster, I have never heard of you before and if you are welcome to BUSTALK.
Can anyone "shed some light" on why some of the signs have such small lettering? Is it just that whoever is in charge didn't care about the size of the letters? Or is there a reason for having them small? Seems to me that bigger would be better. Any info appreciated.
But the funniest came near the end when someone who worked for WMATA, who is now retired, called into complain about PG bus service and to be more exact THE BUS. Now that had me rolling in the isles for a bit and everytime I think about it I just crack up.
If anyone, particularly DC area busfans want to view the interview with Dick White, just read Oren's post yesterday to get the details. I was just listening wasn't really going to call in but I might send in my proposal for that tax plan to see if it would work.
THE BUS, SO MANY JOKES, SO LITTLE TIME.
30: Friendship Heights to Eastern Market*
31: Friendship Heights to Archives, LIMITED STOPS ONLY*
32/34/35/36: Keep southern terminals, potential northern terminals could be GU, Laffyette Square, Rosslyn, and Farragut Square.
*Another idea for the NW part of the route:
B10 (formerly 30): Friendship Heights to Eastern Market
B11 (reincarnated): Medical Center to Rosslyn
B13: Friendship Heights or Medical Center to Archives
WMATA 30 and Ride-On 42: Eliminated
The B10 and B11 would make all stops at all times. The B13 would be a limited and would run all day weekdays. The B10 would run from 5:30 AM to 2 AM, as the current buses do. The B11 would definately run from 6 AM to 8 PM every day and maybe even later and on weekends, too. When the B11 doesn't run, the B10 could be extended to Medical Center or at least to Bethesda.
Another idea for my 30 and B10 would be to have them terminate at Union Station or L'Enfant Plaza.
First I grabbed Orion V 4268 on the F14 to Capitol Heights. Then I grabbed CNG New Flyer 2330 on the 97 to Union Station then CNG New Flyer 2337 on the D6 to Farragut Square. I just missed my 38B to Ballston and had to wait another 30 minutes to get another one. I got Orion VI 2000 to Ballston, waited there awhile and took some pics. I saw 9279 on the 24P, which seemed odd to see a non-wheelchair lift during the midday. I didn't see 4214 or really any rehabs on my trip overall. After lunch I grabbed Orion V 4383 on the 25B to Landmark. After stopping at work just to see what was going on, I left and grabbed FFX Connector Orion V 7882(306) to the Pentagon and then grabbed WMATA Orion V 4228(16J) to Pentagon City to try and take some pics of the PIKE RIDE buses. I only got one pic and saw 2026, a non PIKE RIDE bus on the PIKE RIDE route. I then grabbed Orion VI 2064 on the 9A to Huntington and personal opinion, they need to seriously think of increasing frequency on this route. Most of the time the bus was packed and when it got to Huntington there was about 20 people waiting to catch that bus and usually when I do grab this route, the bus does get packed around old town Alexandria and especially around Huntington. Anyways grabbed FFX Connector Orion V 7769(109) to Springfield, buswatched a little, took a couple of pics and then got FFX Connector Orion V 7870(110) to King Street and got a Flxible D(9820) on the N11 to Branch Avenue, which got fairly decent patronage, that trip at least. I got to Branch Avenue and quickly(I mean quickly, the bus was leaving as I got there) got Orion V 4219 on the C14 to Naylor Road. Here is where I saw where Montgomery's 4400s went. Some still had the smartmover markings on it. Saw 4401 on the C11. I got to Naylor Road and just missed my F14 Connection, an Orion 6, but got another one 30 minutes later being 2097 which took me home. I know when I take my next vacation which is in two weeks I will go to places where Orion Vs dont' exist, Richmond and Delaware. It will be interesting to see what some other buses sound like and ride like.
WMATA-1991, 1998, 2000 Orion Vs, 1999 Orion IIs, and 2000 Orion VIs
PRTC-2000 Orion V surburbans
DASH-2002, 2003 Orion Vs and 1991? Orion Is
Fairfax Connector-1998, 2000, 2002 Orion Vs and 80s Orion Is
Ride On-1992?, 1994, 1995, 1999, 2001-02 Orion Vs, 1995, 2000 Orion V CNGs, 1995 Orion VI CNGs, 1991 Orion Is and currently in delivery of 2003 Orion VIIs
All together the Orions most likely out number the Flxibles that run for WMATA and University of Maryland and the Orion Vs by far outnumber all other bus types combined other than the Flxible Metros. Gillig is a WAY distant second.
If you want another Onion-free stop on your vacation, and you're heading to Delaware, you may want to spend a little time in SEPTA territory. It may be one of your last chances to see the Neo 40-fts in service as they'll be all gone by 2006 (assuming SEPTA sticks to it's plan, which is no certainty).
SEPTA
Stupid
Enough (to)
Prevent
Token
Acquisition
-F.
http://groups.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/bostonmbtabuses.msnw?Page=Last
I took these not long ago, last week...
Incognito
West Farms Kid
-F.
The interior shot, a lot of the design seems to be borrowed from the Gillig. Middle door placement so there's plenty of high level seating(seems like people fight for those seats), along with that middle seat that's neither high nor low.
Floor would look better if it had those "channels" in it, or whatever they are called, instead of the smooth dirty surface, I think.
Nice photos. The interior shot reminded me how disappointed I was that MBTA chose all-plastic hard seats for these otherwise very nice NABI's. The Neoplan artics have hard cloth inserts like the recent NYCT buses (but with a nicer design), so it's a shame the NABI's don't have the cloth seats too.
By the way, if anyone gets up to Boston to see the NABI's, I believe all of them operate out of the Arborway garage. Forest Hills Station (Orange Line), a short walk from Arborway, is probably one of the best places to see and ride them. The Neoplan artics are generally found on the Silver Line (special paint job) and on the 39 bus (regular MBTA paint).
The NABI's will soon be operating out of Cabot garage as well. Popular bus-watching locations such as Forest Hills, Ruggles, Ashmont and Mattapan will almost be completely NABI except for the few routes run from other garages (Albany St. buses at Ruggles, Quincy buses at Ashmont and Mattapan). Dudley will also be all NABI except for the Silver Line.
Jim D.
Forest Hills, indeed, is the place to get all ur NABI shots...
and Cabot is next!!!
South Boston's turn to get decent buses...
but when those Neoplan 35- and 40-foot low floors come in, it will be NORTH Boston's turn, since those buses will be based out of Fellsway, Lynn, Quincy, and possibly Charlestown garage, all serving areas like SUllivan Square, Malden Square, Oak Grove, Chelsea, Everett, and Cambridge.
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
Albany St. - RTS
Arborway - NABI CNG's
Cabot - NABI CNG's
Charlestown - RTS and Neoplan
Fellsway - Neoplan
Lynn - RTS and Neoplan
Quincy - Neoplan
Southampton St. - Neoplan dual-modes (Silver Line Transitway) and articulated CNG's (Silver Line south and 39 Forest Hills-Back Bay)
Subject to change, of course.
Jim D.
Thanks...
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
Those C8.3Gs aren't so bad at all, in fact, they sound like LI Bus's L10Gs, with the whining, as if the bus is in overdrive, but they are rather nice buses...South Boston's getting pampered with great new buses...and they stand out too!
Incognito
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Arborway garage primarily serves the routes in the southern neighborhoods of Boston (Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, West Roxbury, Hyde Park , Mattapan), but that is not the same as South Boston. South Boston is immediately southeast of downtown Boston. If you look on a map, South Boston is the area east of Dorchester Avenue between South Station and Andrew Square.
When all of the new NABI and Neoplan buses are in, South Boston should remain an RTS stronghold on weekdays, since its two major routes are served by the Albany Street garage (9 City Point-Copley and 11 Bay View-Downtown) and Albany Street will be all RTS. On weekends, Cabot's NABI buses will run those routes.
Jim D.
Incognito
Incognito
-F.
Incognito
Unfortunately, the MBTA needs black wheels because they cannot keep any lighter color clean. The 1994-96 TMC/Nova RTS buses were delivered with white wheels and some older RTS's also received the white treatment. Within a couple of years, those white wheels disapperaed under a layer of grime. Why the T cannot effectively wash wheels the way other transit authorities do, I'll never understand, but there it is. Alcoa wheels on an MBTA bus would be the equivalent of putting earrings on a pig.
Jim D.
Providence Journal article
RIPTA press release
B1-#9316-NOVABUS
B8-#7630-Orion VII(farebox not working)
David
However sometimes the trip to Main Street is slow, So I thought that maybe taking the F train to Van Wyck Blvd , then hopping on the Q44 might be faster since I might be able to jump infront of some buses. But I haven tried it yet. (anyone have an Idea?)
Now the Real question is: With the addition to the Q17 Limited service. Would it be faster for me to get off at 188th street and take the limited to Flushing, where then I could jump on the Q44.
Or would Taking the Q44 from Jamaica(either Merick and archer, or Van Wyck Blvd) be the best route?
http://www.westchestergov.com/transportation/rte_12_campus_reroute.htm
This is Ride On's Orion VI "TRUE Low Floor"
More can be found at :
http://photos.transitgallery.com/DCtransit
Enjoy!
BTW, congrats on the 100,000th post!
JD
As Emily Litella would say, "Never mind" ...
JD
Daryl Jackson
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
HAVE FUN WITH IT LUCY, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Time to usher in the Chumpion reign of terror!;-)
Anyway, unless I go to Drexel, I'm nowhere near those Chumpions. At least I finally had my last farewell ride on the Ford Cutaways (hopefully- I had like 10 of those!).
Guess what bus make from this interior
another clue
random seat shot
Stay tuned to this port for more exciting adventures(until you get sick of them, then I'll have to move for fresh ones).
5, or the last one was at the Park street Terminal, "Downtown" Clearwater. Terminal itself says 1984, and it feels like it too, maybe if they enact/pass a transit tax they'll build a really nice in it's place.
I'm going to sort everything and make a good page dedicated to local transit with a whole what's what(guidebook) someday when I free up server space and get enough pics.
But man, I am having way too much fun with this camera(and it's palm sized!).
And on a frigid east gate (may be abit blurry because I couldnt feel my hands!)
I wonder where my snow is...
BIG AL
Peace
David
1) What was the fleet number of the first Grumman delivered to a transit authority?
2) What was the TA's name?
3) In what month and year was this coach delivered?
4) What type of engine did it feature?
Looking forward to your answers!
-Fred
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
(An earlier response indicates the first production model was for CT Transit #101. This may have been the case, but I am 100% positive I saw a Grumman 870 in Atlanta before CT Transit received its first Grumman 870.)
-F.
More trivia:
3008 was the first Flxible 870 to be used in actual revenue service. While 3001 was used as the "show bus" for PR events in Atlanta, 3008 was used for a charter three days before the 870s entered line service.
-F.
Take a look and see the finished project:
http://www.commonwealthcoach.com/79ValleyMetro.html
Enjoy!
-Fred
Not bad at all for a transit bus!
-Fred
B1-#9324-NOVABUS
B8-#7563-Orion VII
-F.
-F.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
-F.
I don't think CT Transit retained any Gruamman 870's, but a number of them wound up at Double-A in Rocky Hill, CT. I didn't have time to look at Double-A's website to see how many may be listed, but those interested should go to that site. Double-A may actually still use some of them in charter or special services, although Grummans andd/or Flxibles from other sources may have replaced these.
BTW, I noticed that some TAs replaced the Grumman nameplates on their 870s with a Flxible nameplate, C-UMTD being one of the offenders, another one was HARTLine in Tampa. (You could always tell when you stepped inside, b/c it would still have the famous Grumman logo on the builder's nameplate above the driver compartment)
The key distinguishing feature of the 870 compared to the Metro was the lack of louvered vents between the headlights. Did those buses get the vents as well as the Flxible nameplate?
JD
Your thinking caps can now be put on.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
First Test Bus
Demo to Detroit Diesel/Allison Division
Indianapolis, IN
Produced in May 1977
With The Serial Number 001
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC
Officially Modeled the General Motors RTS Model TH-8201
This info is for both the test unit and the production model!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC
http://www.geocities.com/~buslist/RTS_II/RTSII_S1.html
I wonder if there's a possiblity that brand news ones just don't suck as much as they did.
IDEA!!! Ride Rt 116, from Chester. It's ton of Dorado fun! (Our Dorados are better than yours :-P)
HAve a farewell ride on the Fords with the 95 or 92/133.
Buswatch at Plymouth Meeting MAll, the best place in the suburbs to buswatch- every type of bus that SEPTA has besides the Champions and HEVs (watch out for Frontier area frequencies).
Ride an artic on the highway on the 27 or the 9.
End up at PM mall around 2:30 I can meet up with you guys (but where to get a daypass in the middle of nowheresville! Maybe Olney or 69th St?
Take the 95, get a quick view of the Frontier depot!
Take the rt 100 through Victory depot!
Watch out for train 9555 on the R5 Paoli line - it's only on time 37% of the time!
And then East Gate:
Under the circumstances, why not ban private automobiles, which could use any number of other streets. Yes there are stores, but customers can drive and park on the side streets -- most walk anyway. If Church were limited to trucks and buses, there would be plety of curbside space for loading/unloading, fewer turns, and faster travel times for transit riders. Agree?
David
BIG AL
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
When walking back to the car with several freinds (they ended up parking where I parked because of the rules though they were still illegal and I was not), one was wearing a skirt. Needless to say, she got very cold while walking back.
BIG AL
BIG AL
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
MetroB
There were some MABSTOA TDH5106's in the 2600 series running around then.
There were also still some MABSTOA TDH4507's in the 2700 series, used to ride them to and from Cardinal Hayes HS on the Bx1...they'd put out the junk for the school trippers 'cause they knew we'd tear up the buses.
Any help is appreciated!
That is true for 45xx series of New Looks, for the 53xx series the even models were 96'' wide.
The 1959-1962 TDH5301's (the low numbers, 1001-1129, 2001-2175) had one large tail lamp on top with two smaller lights connnected by a sort of fiberglass housing. They featured the square marker lights and a opening center window.
In 1963, both TA and MaBSTOA 5303's dropped the fibergalass housing around its tail lights, however the 1965 MaBSTOA 5303's had non-opening center windows (the small rectangular window opposite the rear door), while the 1963 OA (5000's) and 1963 TA (3000's) models had an opening window. All New Looks from this point forth had non opening center windows. MaBSTOA had an additional set of 5303's (6800's) with advertising wings (Bus-O-Ramas).
Now for my favorites the 1966 5303's which came equipped with air conditioning. Aside from having a/c, these buses were the same as their 1965 MaBSTOA predecessors--including their famous wings. For anyone old enough to remember, these buses had a distinctive "hummmm" with the a/c on that sounded nothing like the normal engine.
The 1968 5305A's (8800-8939) were the first to use the letter "A" to denote air conditioning. These buses were primarily used in express service and were among the first soft-seaters. Buses 8830-8854(?) had bus-o-rama wings, and a few had hard seats for local service (I'm not sure of the actual numbers). The 1968 5305A's had a new tail light setup--two small lights on the lower half of the engine door. This would be the tail light setup for all New Looks from this point forward.
The 1970 5305A's (4300-4499) were mostly local buses that featured gray fiberglass longitudinal seating. Bus 4300 was delivered with GM's new Environmental Improvement Package (EIP) which featured the vertical exhaust system that the 6000's made famous. Buses 4484-4499 wre delivered with green soft seats.
The TA never had any 5307A's in revenue service but they did have 5309A's which were practically identical. The 1971 models were 6000-6163 and 6165, and the 1972 models were 4800-4919 & 6200-6349. These buses were the only GM New Looks to be delivered in the two-tone blue paint scheme, featured royal blue fiberglass seating, and had the EIP exhaust system. Their express bus sisters, the 5310A's (4500-4505, 6164, 6166-6199 and 6900-6956), featured soft seats.
Mark
You said that the 1963 TDH-5303 buses #8800-8939 were mainly express buses? Well according to some pics on this website (www.nycsubway.org NYC Buses), I've seen bus #8850 on the M22, #8853 on the R7, #8854 on the R101?, #8846 on the B9. I assume these buses became local when they got more express buses, right?
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Mark
Respect the man who knows about the buses of New York City!!!!!
I made some typos on that post. Let's not get carried away here. LOL!
Thanks for the response.
Ray
The 100,000 Bustalk Post...
Incognito
Enjoy!
...and what a great day that was. I've met some good friends here and learned quite a bit as well.
Wayne
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?bustalk=29969
Do you guys remember your first post? Heck, I didn't even remember the original name I used until I came across it as mentioned in another thread!
Like you, I've also met a few members here. In addition to a couple of Bus Fans, I've met 3 NYCTA Traffic Checkers who post (or had posted) here and they didn't even know it was me they were talking to!
I wonder if my first post even exists. It has been well over seven years.
Here's my first Bustalk post...
Incognito
West Farms Kid
And there is my first post. What's amazing is the utterly insane statement Trevor made in response to it!
metrobus route block - ckd2784 - Thu Jul 25 20:00:16 2002
negative opinions- metrobus low floor buses - ckd2784 - Wed Jul 24 20:48:44 2002
metrobus observation - ckd2784 - Tue Jul 23 20:23:30 2002
metrobus seating types - ckd2784 - Mon Jul 22 22:08:48 2002
wmata orion V's (4200 series) - ckd2784 - Fri Jul 19 22:55:44 2002
metrobus engine types - ckd2784 - Tue Jul 16 21:29:49 2002
sites where i can store pictures - ckd2784 - Tue Jul 2 19:47:43 2002
new WMATA artics - ckd2784 - Tue Jul 2 19:36:27 2002
Digital Camera (message for steve hoskins) - ckd2784 - Mon Jul 1 19:38:18 2002
destination signs - ckder - Sat Oct 28 21:59:09 2000
Just amazing. I wonder how long it will take to get to Post #200,000 (I'd guess that will happen before those choking Eagles reach a Super Bowl, much less win one - please don't rub it in, becuase I'm not in a good mood right now...).
Chuck Greene
Hmmm, this sounds like MTV's Road Rules/Real World Challenge....
For those confused, the (Route Divides) refers to the past of Route 22... before the fall of 1996 or some time like that, Route 22 originally alternated routing between direct Easton Road service (which didn't run Sundays, but does now) and service via Keswick Avenue and Edgehill Road, in addition to another split north of Willow Grove. Buses would either run via Old York Road or Jacksonville Road northbound, and return southbound the other way. The splits were done in about the same time the NABIs arrived. So they MIGHT have got a taste of them before it was all said and done.
However, the internal sign remains... Perhaps even the codes for trips via Edgehill Road remain.
Ordinarily, I'd figure it no big deal... let's go, nothing more to see.
However... take the artics... it took about a year for them to resolve issues with the Route 33 signs so that they'd actually be able to make the stop announcements, and the route announcement as well. When they frst got there, they'd be silent, now the Neoplan greets it's riders announcing this is the 33, and its destination... furthermore, the NABIs nd New Flyers on the 108 have been modified... the Marshall and Grace Roads stop announcement southbound is omitted, Oak & Pembroke is called as Long Lane & Church, and they've added in 68th & Greenway. This is typically used on the UPS trips, but makes its way to the Airport trips at times, and MOST of the 67th & Elmwood turnbacks... I think the buses out of Southern are unaffected by the changes. The internal signs also no longer use "Rt 108: Philadelphia Int'l Airport", simply useing "Rt 108: Airport", even though the NABIs had the former since they changed the exterior AND interior sign to differentiate between Southern and Victory trips... they wanted everything to match the New Flyers. Mind you, all Airport Business Center/UPS via Airport trips are dead silent for now... interior signs need fixing.
My point... SEPTA's been updating/modifying their signs elsewhere... why does the (Route Divides) remain? Are they planning to restore the Edgehill Road Route?
On a slightly unrelated note, has anyone noticed that some of the stop announcements for routes out of Frankford Terminal (mostly the 14 and 20) are rushed, and sound as if the announcement is asking a question at some points? Weird.
Frankford/Comly routes: Typically sounds like the announcement is a question ("Bustleton and Deveraux? For Route 88"). Interior signs aren't bad, but anything to Franklin Mills Mall, Neshaminy Mall, or Oxford Valley Mall needs to be corrected. (Currently, at FM Mall, you get Routes 20, 67, 84, 129, and 130. Neshaminy Mall has the 14, 58, 127, 128, and 130, and does NOT have the 20 anymore. Ox Val Mall has the same routes essentially as before, but no longer carries the 130 or 203)
King of Prussia Routes: Remove 92, and add 123 and 133.
22: Either omit the (Route Divides), or kick SEPTA until they restore service to Edgehill Road (why DID they cut that?). And... is it Warminster or Johnsville?
18: Add Stenton Station (Phil-Ellena Street and Ardleigh) for the R7.
61: Give it some NABIS/New Flyers so I can judge the signs/announcements.
G: Please, PLEASE fix the exterior voice announcement... sounds rushed and muttered... and lately, the laziness has become a problem. ALL Suburban and now a few City Division routes deal with destination alone, not "by way of" anymore. (examples: 108, 33, 113, G)
108: Uh... maybe I'll leave this one alone, as it seems Southern and Victory do things two different ways. I'll explain.
Victory sign: "108 Philadelphia Int'l Airport", "Elmwood Av/67th St"
Southern sign: "108 Airport", "67th St/Elmwood Ave"
However, the interior signs are the same... and BOTH tend to sometimes display "Route 108: Yeadon" on 69th Street Terminal trips.
Olney Routes: Add 80 at the Terminal
69th Street Routes: Add 123 if listing every route.
99: No longer an issue... but the Pottstown trips were often silent.
55: Fix the announcement on Doylestown trips... "Willow Grove Cross Keys" sounds like one place. (mind you, SOME exterior signs show "55: Doylestown/Cross Keys"... maybe THEY have the right announcement)
(minor nitpick): L comes before N. Therefore, Letter routes BEFORE Number routes.
1, 65, 44, 121: It's no longer Esso Road, it's Kings Grant Drive, and it's been that since before the NABIs got here...
I'm glad they stick with Neoplans for the Subway-Surface bus shuttles when they're needed (personally, with the 10 gone, Elmwood could take a few, maybe split the 108 three ways with Victory and Southern, and split half of the 37?). The NABIs do fine on the C and the OWL buses.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Yeah, kinda like what you BusTalkers have turned my AIM chats into :( You know what, that's it, I'm not posting any more bus photos here until the AIM chats start becoming respectful again.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Yes they are my chats. I started them, as you can see from the SubTalk archives. However, you are your little sh_t friends have hijacked them and bastardized them into the most unholy display I've ever seen.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Yes, I started the idea, and this is how you repay me?
Ask anyone in the chat room why were you dogged on...then you will realize why...
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Oh no! What will we ever do...
You don't own the chat room. Anything go's
Da Hui
Bye Bye Fresh Pond---My Final F.P. Report
The End Of The Road At The Pond
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
You can IM if you can, my AIM screen name hasn't changed since you went AWOL.
Mayor says MTA may not take over lines
By Joshua Robin
STAFF WRITER
January 16, 2004
Last year, his signals were all green, but yesterday, the mayor conceded his hopes of getting the MTA to take over private bus lines have dimmed to a cautionary yellow.
His proposed city budget listed the $150 million in anticipated savings from the proposed shift in a table of "risks," or uncertainties.
Eager to free the city from the yearly subsidy, the mayor is trying to transfer to the MTA 82 private routes, mainly in Queens, claiming the state agency is better equipped than the city to provide bus service.
The MTA, facing its own budget woes, has said it will shoulder the routes only if the city continued to subsidize them heavily.
The amount of money city officials say is at stake is growing. Last year, the city subsidy came to about $100 million. Officials now estimate the expense at $150 million.
Sorting out the details has forced both the city and the MTA to postpone a possible deal at least three times. Negotiations are ongoing, MTA spokesman Tom Kelly said yesterday.
Gene Russianoff, attorney for the Straphangers Campaign, a transit rider advocacy group, blasted Mayor Michael Bloomberg for pushing for the transfer, which he says places an unfair burden on the MTA's fare-driven budget.
"It's wrong for Mayor Bloomberg to ask that city subway and bus riders pay the bill for balancing the city budget and providing a tax cut," he said.
Doug Turetsky, a spokesman for the city Independent Budget office, praised the mayor for candidly admitting that the city might save the money - or might not.
"The mayor certainly deserves credit," Turetsky said.
I'm expected to see a lot of "shifting" schedules, not as a cost saving measure, but as a result of the Privates trying to make score with an increasingly failing bus fleet.
Just a thought.
Jim D.
True, but the CT Classics are a few years newer than the current DOT versions. Also, I'm assuming here than the private operators would be using their Classics on local routes if they weren't set up as single-door express buses with raised platforms. Those buses are still probably in better shape than some of those beat-up RTS buses running on Queens local routes today.
JD
M4-#9633-NOVABUS
Yes - I'm assuming the lifts are operational or can be repaired.
JD
OK; I wasn't sure if they had them or not. That's the major drawback to NYCDOT's Classics.
I can't speak for the New Haven Division, but my opinion is that CT Transit buses in Hartford receive excellent maintenance. I did ride a few 1990 Classics in Hartford in 2003 and they did appear to be in very good shape for 13-year old buses. I've got to believe they would be a vast improvement over the mid-1980's RTS's at Green and the other privates, at least on an interim basis. It's a shame that something like this probably will never happen!
600's-from Triboro to replaced by the Classics.
200's from Green to replaced by the classics.
Its a good idea. Any comments?
B68-#856-New Flyer
No money to fix, no money to buy
They are just watching buses die
So they can cut service and pass the buck
And all the commuters will be out of luck
That's fine with the Council, fine with NYCDOT
Fine with the Mayor, but what about you and me?
And then they whine about the dollar van
But right now, they are the only ones doing ANYTHING
-ar
Nice idea, but isn't the MTA looking to take over the privates, thus buying a new fleet to replace those old clunkers.
Bill "Newkirk"
JD
Why on earth would that function be on a destination sign readout? I suppose I might have been a little worried if the thing was counting DOWN! ;-)
(45)(Mama_oneck)
A3_Message and on the back A3_M. The New Flyers were plagued with this porblem back in 2000/01 and I even saw it on an RTS in it's last days.
BIG AL
This bus appears to have been abandoned here in the TJ Maxx shopping center in Greenvale. The front door is open and if you look closely enough you can see snow drifts in the doorwell.
BIG AL
BIG AL
Da Hui
-F.
MetroB
-F.
http://www.commonwealthcoach.com/79ValleyMetro.html
Enjoy the link!
-Fred
-F.
The Flxible METRO "F" was destined to be the "Common Sense" bus, which would've been the low floor model of the METRO, however it wouldn't have been a completely low floor buses, there were just gonna drop floor some notches.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Trevor
Ray
Also, going a little closer to home, Blacksburg Transit has a split order of Metros; the first half were made 6/86, and the second were built 1/87. I know the 87s are Bs, but are the 86 models A or B?
We may be obtaining one soon for our local museum as they are now out of service due to the recent influx of New Flyer LFs there.
Inquiring minds want to know!
-Fred
The 9800s are early 94s, the 9700s are 93s, the 4000s are late 95-96s. So the annotation of them being Metro "E" buses are correct, OMOT just has the year wrong.
Regards,
Trevor
-F.
The OMOT Flxible METRO production has a lot of errors on it.
The 4 MTA-NYC Bus Flxible METRO Model 40102-4D "E" buses that did get produced, are now residents of Detroit Diesel in Michigan as Engine Test Buses. Those would be units numbered 1900-1903.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Instead of bitching about it, how about submitting what information you have to OMOT?
FWIW, OMOT shows those Monterey-Salinas Flxibles as 1995 models, delivered in November '95, and seven subsequent orders of 35102s (two of them cancelled). Several completed orders of 1996 Metros are listed, including Blacksburg, VA.
Pretty funny comment about the MS units, since I have the last Flxible production list from Flxible right before the doors close and it shows to MS units as 1996. AND Blacksburg never got any Flxibles in 1996. The ended up as Gilligs! Goes to show you how accurate that OMOT Flxible roster is!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
-F.
Jim D.
Regards,
Trevor
My mistake... kudos for passing the info along to him. I've sent some updated notes on preserved coaches which also haven't been incorporated yet.
Is your new & improved site live yet? An accurate Flx roster would be a nice addition!
-F.
-F.
I don't understand what you meant by that statement. What does any of that have to do with the reason why MCI hasn't reintroduced the Flxible? Please explain. That doesn't add up to me.
-F.
So, in 1977, GMC discontinued production of the New Look bus in the U.S. and introduced the RTS-II Advanced Design Bus. Two things happen, however. First, the Transbus program is killed off by the federal government. Second, and more importantly, many transit agencies refuse to buy the expensive GMC and Grumman-Flxible ADB buses and begin looking to GM-Canada, Flyer and elsewhere to continue buying the more economical New Look-style coaches. This leads to the entry of Gillig, Neoplan, Orion and others into the transit bus market in the early 1980's. I believe this was a development that GMC was entirely unprepared for - now they had to sell their expensive RTS bus in a market flooded with lower cost buses.
Add to this the confusion surrounding the turbulent reign of GMC CEO Roger B. Smith in the 1980's (who was fascinated by high-tech ventures and championed GMC's purchase of Electronic Data Systems and Hughes Aircraft), and it is easy to see how the company's management lost interest in selling things like transit buses and locomotives. Yes, GMC had a long and illustrious history in selling buses, but such history means little in business these days. So, GMC sold it's U.S. transit bus operations to TMC and its Canadian operation to MCI.
Jim D.
UMTA funding became very iffy in the mid 80s under the Reagan budgets. The RTS line was shut down several times due to lack of orders because TAs weren't getting the funding. Instead, UMTA was paying for rehab of 1970s-vintage New Looks, and companies like Blitz and NIMCO were raking in the cash. With no income from the TAs, and continuing mothballing of the plant, GM chose to sell the "Coach" of GMC Truck & Coach.
Even though Clinton's transit initiatives revitalized the industry to a point, the government shutdowns over budgets in the mid 90s were also a factor in clearing out Flxible. With no spending allowed, UMTA couldn't pay for buses produced. All of NJT's Flx Metro-Ds (1994) are leased, and the 1995/6 Nova RTSes were funded by UMTA because NJT agreed to send them to Atlanta for the Olympics before they entered line service in NJ.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The 1999-2000 NJT order from Nova did help at 650 units, but they also had the large order from Dallas DART as well. Other than those two and some orders from Boston and a couple of smaller cities, no one was interested, though.
That's amazing. Not something I knew. Who knows, with the deficit the way it is, that could happen again.
Also, can you explain what you mean by your Orange County comment? To my knowledge, OCTA/OCTD had one single, large order of RTSs delivered in 1980, 3001-3175 I believe. They never had any others, though some of that original fleet still runs today! And it's not that rare for one place to have two types of RTS in service...
Detroit has 160 new NovaBUS RTSs delivered in 2001 and 2002. They are numbered 3700-3859 and they have roof-mounted HVAC and Balios destination signs, not Luminator. If you want to see Luminator Horizons on an RTS, look at Golden Gate Transit's baby RTSs delivered in late 2002.
I agree, though, that it was not solely NYCT and NJT that kept the RTS alive. It remained a fairly popular bus with large and medium-size systems almost until the end.
Good question. The answer is no way. Every year continuously between 1977 and 2002, there were at least a few RTS orders.
Just because NYC didn't take RTSs every single year doesn't mean that Cherriots in Salem, OR or Central Oklahoma Transportation & Parking Authority or TalTran in Tallahassee, FL or Ann Arbor Transportation Authority or RTC/Citifare or Red Rose Transit Authority didn't get some.
We associate the RTS with big cities, but plenty of small and mid-size operators use(d) them too. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this board don't even acknowledge that those smaller systems exist.
-F.
MetroB
MetroB
FWIW, as a Bee-Line commuter, my current favorite is the Flx, I'll be very sorry to see them go. They not only look and sound cool ( ;=D ) but they're roomier than an Orion. When I sit down and put my briefcase on my lap, I have to suck my stomach in on an Orion. On a Flx I've got plenty of room. They also have chops -when the operator nails the pedal those Flxs get up and go! And they're smooth-riding. In the morning, I ride a Bee-Line 1C-Medical Center. Sometimes I get a Neo Artic, sometimes a Flx. My coffee sloshes when the Artic hits bumps I barely notice when I'm on a Flx.
BTW, more systems should consider 2-1 seating, especially on routes where off-peak buses are half-full but crammmed during rush hour. And bring back the hand straps! Trying to negotiate the aisle of a crowded rush hour bus by tryng to hold onto the bar while the bus operator accelerates from a stop into traffic reminds me of an obstacle course excercise back in Basic Training days.
MetroB
-F.
Comments, opinions, anyone?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
996 is currently one of three of the New Flyer D45S "Viking" suburban over the road coaches assigned to Casay Stengel depot for use on the X51.
Regards,
Mark Valera
-F.
-Fred
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC
-Fred
-Fred
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-F.
Regards,
Trevor
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Trevor
T.
The other one is two guys trying to get a cab and watches four buses go by, so they decided to catch one and then again enjoys the ride.
After both they have a spot on a certain place and what bus lines service that particular location, interesting move. I think they should just skip the testimonials and have more commercials introducing new routes or routes that need more ridership or special offers that some of their routes are having.
I don't know about other agencies. I guess Luminator did a good marketing job. I was around when the TA decided to buy them and know who at the TA convinced top management to switch. He claimed the roll signs weren't reliable and were mostly broken. (They were broken because the TA stopped repairing and replacing them.) He claimed the digitals were more economical although they cost $5,000 each at the time compared to a couple of hundred dollars each for the roll signs. He projected savings based on the fact that they all would be programmed with all of the destinations for the city eliminating costs when buses were shifted between depots. He said if a route were changed, new roll signs wouldn't be needed. Just push a few buttons and all the signs woould be permanently changed. (I guess it didn't work out that way because it wasn't that easy. The chips still had to be pulled from all the buses to be reprogrammed.)
The biggest joke was that this person claimed there would be a labor savings since four people maintained the roll signs and the digitals would require no maintenance, and the fools believed him. Now it takes between 12 and 20 people to maintain the digitals. So where's the gain? Was he held accountable? Was he disciplined? No. He went on to bigger and better things.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
I agree that the flip dot signs, for the most part, have been awful. The combination flip dot/LED signs on the QSC Orions seem to be okay, though, and the new LED signs are very nice, if programmed with large enough letters.
I like the combination flip dot/LED signs. Here in Syracuse, Centro has those signs on its 1999 Orion V buses. Small letters on the all-LED signs are definitely a problem.
JD
As I believe I posted about a week back, NJTransit is rebuilding some of the Metro B's in-house. I don't know how many have been completed or how many more will be done, but suspect that rebuilds will continue until a replacement order is made.
JD
Boston has actually kept their buses well beyond the 12-year 'standard' - the MBTA is still running hundreds of RTS buses built between 1985 and 1987 every weekday, and even the youngest of the RTS buses to be retired will be 15 to 16 years old when they are taken out of service. And the T's Flyer E800 trackless trolleys have been in service for 27 years!
In general, however, I agree with your sentiments. Too many transit agencies will gladly junk serviceable buses if they can get the money to buy new buses. In Canada, transit agencies such as Toronto's TTC specify that the new buses they purchase must be able to last 18 years.
Jim D.
Of course, if this were to happen, one or more of the current bus producers would go out of business because of lack of new orders.
In any event, I've got to believe many U.S. transit authorities and the U.S.D.O.T. have done studies on the economics of when is best to retire buses and the current 12-year standard is no doubt based on those studies.
As a bus fan, I'd like to have it both ways - seeing operators get new buses often, but having some of the older buses last a little longer than they do now.
Why they cannot allocate those funds to rebuilding an existing coach (or just mildly rehabbing) is beyond me. Surely it can be done cheaper than just buying new buses and getting squat for good ones!
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Also, I believe when the 1997-1998 batches first came in, a few might have slipped onto the M100...
Incognito
Then again, the bus wasn't all the way toward the right of the lane like most M66 drivers stay.
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Any info is greatly appreciated. NO NONSENSE!
B68-#7602-Orion VII-needs a cleaning.
B82-#8121-TMCRTS-REPOWERED
B3-#7523-REMAN RTS
B4-#9319-NOVABUS
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
BIG AL
MetroB
Don't know anything about the order.
Jim D.
Buses I saw on shuttle bus route:
Orion V- 217,218,6115
RTS- 8205,8238,8511,8767,8798,8832,8854,8872,9189,9206,9236,9528
New Flyer Artic-1002,1026,5291,5425,5592
Also, it seemed that there was extra service on the Bx22 and 39. Some Bx22's were only going as far as Westchester Av and Castle Hill i guess for service to the 6 train.
will it be in effect tomorrow?
One of the coolest looking buses ever...I wonder what other upgrades and options those babies got before they went out of production.
Ralph Kramden's 2969 sure didn't have it!
The photos show the traditional twin window and the single 4103 type window that you referred to as well, which by the way along with the a/s give this coach a very unique look..
Another section of the book describes the last production old looks...3502 and 3502A which went to Sioux City and Oklahoma City (air conditioned) in 1968.
So anyway, who can guess what bus this is?(wanting to see who's well versed).
there are two versions I know of so far as far as interior goes, with only a slight difference in the 3 seats surrounding the rear door(this version has two medium height, instead of one across the door)
Keep 'em coming! We need challenges like this to keep us sharp.
TANK (Transit Authority of Northern Kentucky) serves the Kentucky suburbs of the Cincinnati area and also operates into Cincinnati proper (much like NJT connects South Jersey with Center City Philadelpia or North Jersey with Manhattan).
The Bee line buses have similar cameras, so just a guess
I noticed taht LYNX also has a camera in each bus, but it's just one in the upper right above the front door taht I know of.
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
my point is, theres like a wall/partition behind the driver, where the white/yellow line would be on the floor, big solid thing that has the "stop request" light in it, and that has the bus number. The second one painted on the black, that's the actual front of the bus with the number(for driver i guess). I'm trying my best to make this pronounced in some of the shots, I hope one of the agencies that run these have an open house maybe someday.
BIG AL
Gillig Advantage it is. PSTA actually. Havne't been in a Hartline one yet, tuesday probably though.
I dont' know how it works with the models or seating arrangement, but I noticed at least 3 different versions of this bus, with 2 differences on the inside.
These are the ones I see most often, check the differences in the seats by the rear door in both pics.
I wish i had some info about orders or ages or stuff like that. I like these buses.
Maybe this little schematic will help to point out the differences between the versions. Here, imagine that you're looking at two 40-foot Gillig Advantages from the curb side. An "X" represents window space, "R" for the rear doors, and "F" for the front doors.
XXX XXX XXX RR XX XXX XXX XXXX FFF (2002+ Gillig Advantage T2-40)
XXXX XXXX XXXX RR XXX XXXX XXXX FFF (1998-2001 Gillig Advantage T-40)
Of course it's not perfect, but you get the idea.
I'm so sorry that I know so much about Gillig Advantage designs, because they're far and away my least favorite bus out there. They're terribly boring buses to look at, plus the passenger cabin layout is the most unfriendly of any bus on the market. I don't much care for driving 'em, either.
Maybe this little schematic will help to point out the differences between the versions. Here, imagine that you're looking at two 40-foot Gillig Advantages from the curb side. An "X" represents window space, "R" for the rear doors, and "F" for the front doors.
XXX XXX XXX RR XX XXX XXX XXXX FFF (2002+ Gillig Advantage T2-40)
XXXX XXXX XXXX RR XXX XXXX XXXX FFF (1998-2001 Gillig Advantage T-40)
Of course it's not perfect, but you get the idea.
I'm so sorry that I know so much about Gillig Advantage designs, because they're far and away my least favorite bus out there. They're terribly boring buses to look at, plus the passenger cabin layout is the most unfriendly of any bus on the market. I don't much care for driving 'em, either.
Werid though, I've only been in 3 low-floor buses, and this ones my favorite actually. I think I've ridden maybe 8 types of transit buses(probably more if you count every version of Neoplan that Septa had), and I'm really into this make.
But my views have always been more rigid than mainstream on how I think of things anyway.
Craziest example was actually on the LIRR years back. I was rail-fan riding the Patchogue line for the first time. The diesel train really got packed at Jamaica. A young kinda nerdy guy sat next to me in the middle seat of a 3-seater. In the meantime, my eyes were glued to the passing scene, a part of the Long Island RR (and Long Island) I'd never seen before. Finally a stop or two from Patchogue I stretched and looked around. There were only about three other people left in the WHOLE car but my 'friend' from Jamaica was STILL sitting right next to me!
What was even weirder was that he didn't talk to me... like, you'd think he was about to hit on me or something, but nothing! Thank God I was getting off at Islip, so I excused myself and waited by the door... it was definitely weird.
BTW, in case you've wondered, some guys (like me f'rinstance) prefer sitting next to ladies, but not for the reasons you might think. On average, I find women are more accommodating to sit next to. They usually take up less room, number one, and more importantly, they seldom play 'turf' games over space. Like leaning their leg against you. Or making sure to keep their elbow in your ribs like a guy did to me the other night.
(Off topic...how about when you are waiting online at the supermarket, etc, and the person behind you is inches away, breathing down your neck...and inches up every time you move forward an inch...THAT provokes me to say something or shoot some dirty looks every time....sorry..I'm fine now...)
Old women love to ram their cart into my back. And of course, i always end up saying something, to them or someone else really loud.
Jim D.
Look at some of NJT's interstate fares. Zone 9 is $7.20 one-way ($171/month); zone 16, where one of my colleagues lives, is $11.50 one-way and $271/month.
Keep in mind that it's a hideously expensive route to operate, with heavily peaked ridership and a very long non-productive segment. I'm sure the per-passenger subsidy is very high even with the $7 fare, and I'm equally sure that the rest of the county (and state) wouldn't be too happy about subsidizing a small group of riders for whom the railroad is de-classe.
Westchester County residents would probably get far more value for their tax dollars if WDOT killed the BxM4C and funded two or three additional MetroNorth trains.
That's because somebody decided that NYC residents should subsidize Yonkers riders.
Yes, but the section north of 262nd Street is in Yonkers, which means that NYCDOT is subsizing a service segment which benefits only Yonkers residents. Is that a good thing?
WDOT "subsidizes" Boston Road bus service in the Bronx saving the MTA money
The BxM3 makes seven stops in Yonkers IIRC.
WDOT started operating lines 60 and 61 open-door in the early 1980's, after NYCT discontinued the old Bx7-Boston Road line. That line had 60-minute headways all day and was killed due to low ridership.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com(
If the 61 existed in those days, I never saw it.
What I don't undrstand is, at present, the BxM4C ridrship is down. It's fallen off by about 50% since about 1998. A guy I spoke with at Bee-Line system planning (I had a complaint and they forwarded my call to him -we wound up talking for about 45 minutes ;=D ) says they're not sure why either, the economy is the usual explanation but the drop off began before the economy began to slow.
Westchester raised the fare too high for this particular route. I can understand why (fareness to all means making everyone squeal), but the fare needs to be knocked down approximately 3-5% to obtain the route's maximum possible revenue. I would also use bigger buses to get rid of one or two of the short-turn buses that start in Tuckahoe.
This line brings in almost $3 million in revenue per year. My rough estimates put the operating costs at $3.5 million, but if Westchester were to sponsor a bus company to get new buses through Section 5309, that operating cost can drop a lot further. I assume that it is costing Westchester at least $4 million to run the line, so private operation could save some money.
The Playland buses are even easier to run privately. One can take buses that are laying around midday and send them to Playland or even Great Adventure. Then, you put them back on their runs during the peak. So you see, a creative bus company can take a weak route and make it pay.
But 3% lower gives $6.79, and 5% lower gives $6.65. The key question is this: How many riders who stopped riding at $7 would return for $6.65Probably not too many.
[I would also use bigger buses to get rid of one or two of the short-turn buses that start in Tuckahoe.]
That would mean a huge capital investment and a lot of existing buses to dispose of.
[The Playland buses are even easier to run privately.]
The whole county is already run by private carriers (mostly Liberty Lines Transit) under contract to WDOT. You probably mean independently rather than privately.
2) Through Section 5309, we're talking $90-100K per bus for the new operator, assuming that Westchester County will sponsor capital acquisition needs. If the Feds put up 80% and the operator 20%, the operator would be spending $2.8 million. This isn't that bad.
3) The BxM4C's ridership change has mirrored the statistical results after a fare increase of such a magnitude. The key is REVENUE, not people. Rolling the fare back would increase the passengers marginally, but you would also push revenue up towards the peak it crossed. The revenue peak is in the $6.50 to $6.75 area. I would make the fare $5 on weekends and holidays. A 5% decrease increases patronage by 1.6 to 2 percent.
Here are some numbers that I have crunched or have found:
2002 BxM4C performance (WCDOT):
Revenue: $2,585,587,75
Passengers: 596,447
March 2003-March 2004 BxM4C estimates (WCDOT and TransportAzumah):
Revenue: $2,967,587.75 (WCDOT)
Passengers: 513,782 (TransportAzumah)
TransportAzumah esitmates for 2004:
Revenue: $2,986,413
Passengers: 517,767
4) Yes, I know Westchester subcontracts to Liberty Lines. Independent private operators would be what I mean.
NEW CTTRANSIT BUSES TO DEBUT IN NEW HAVEN
1/16/2004
(NEW HAVEN, CT)-CTTRANSIT customers in the New Haven area will be greeted in the new year with new buses.
The Connecticut Department of Transportation (CDOT) has announced that 42 new low-floor buses will be entering service in New Haven in early January 2004. These buses are the latest addition to the statewide CTTRANSIT fleet joining 72 low-floor buses added to the CTTRANSIT fleets in Hartford and Stamford over the past two years.
"Buses are a key component of Connecticut's public transportation infrastructure," said CDOT Commissioner James F. Byrnes, Jr. "The new buses will certainly be appreciated by the bus operators, mechanics and, most importantly, our customers."
The 42 new 40-foot buses, manufactured by New Flyer, will replace 1990 model buses in New Haven and will account for about 37 percent of the fleet. A second shipment, due in the spring of 2004, will bring an additional 42 new buses.
"The new buses for New Haven are very similar to those we have been operating in Stamford for over two years and, more recently, in Hartford," said CTTRANSIT General Manager David A. Lee. "We have been very pleased with their performance, and the public reaction has been overwhelmingly favorable."
The buses sport an updated paint design that includes a bright silver reflective decal on blue metallic paint-a marked difference from the current white buses. A special feature of the low-floor buses is that riders do not have to climb stairs when they enter. This makes boarding faster, easier and safer for all customers. Passengers who use wheelchairs will board using a ramp that is much simpler and less costly to maintain than the lifts installed on traditional high-floor buses.
The new buses are also more fuel-efficient and have cleaner emissions than the buses they are replacing, reducing particulate emissions by over 90 percent. Each new bus in New Haven comes equipped with a bicycle rack, and by summer, the entire fleet will have the racks. Each bike rack can hold two bikes and customers may use them at no additional charge. Bicycle racks were added to the entire Stamford fleet in the fall of 2001 and customer usage and positive feedback has exceeded expectations.
"The most unusual things about these buses are what you cannot see," said Harry Harris, bureau chief for CDOT's Bureau of Public Transportation. "There are no stairs and the buses have much lower emissions. They have been extremely successful and very well received."
The new buses will also feature on-board security cameras, easy-to-read LED electronic destination signs, 38 cloth-upholstered seats and larger windows that will afford passengers a better view of the outside world.
Funding for the new buses, which have a 12 to 14 year operating life, comes from federal and state capital funds. The total cost for the 84 buses that will debut in New Haven in 2004 is approximately $22,879,416 (or $272,374 per bus). Of that total, about $4,575,883 million will come from state funds and the remainder from federal funds.
The investment in public transit is part of overall improvements to functionality and comfort, as well as an effort to continue to introduce a new look for public transit buses in the state. The blue and silver buses have also been added recently by the Greater Bridgeport Transit Authority and in the near future by South East Area Transit in the Norwich/New London area.
"This new color scheme helps to brand an image of seamless transportation throughout the state of Connecticut," said CDOT Transit and Ridesharing Administrator Michael A. Sanders. "In addition, we are offering our passengers a safer, cleaner, more comfortable and more reliable ride as they travel to their destinations."
CTTRANSIT is the state-owned bus transit system serving the greater Hartford, New Haven, Stamford, Waterbury, New Britain, Meriden, Bristol and Wallingford areas.
Contact Information:
Phil Fry, Assistant General Manager
CTTRANSIT
PHONE: (860) 522-8101, ext. 222
E-MAIL: pfry@cttransit.com
Pic and Press Release from Cttransit.com
"This new color scheme helps to brand an image of seamless transportation throughout the state of Connecticut," said CDOT Transit and Ridesharing Administrator Michael A. Sanders.
Ugh ... every transit operator in Connecticut is going to have the same paint scheme?
BORING !!!!
JD
Da Hui
And it will be even worse if Connecticut buys wave after wave of New Flyer low-floors. The same bus in the same paint scheme in every city across the state just doesn't do it for me.
Jim D.
Yes, but according to the press release, they will all share the same blue and silver image.
JD
I suspect you (and the press release) are correct. As long as state DOT moneys are used for the buses, they will probably wear whatever paint the state DOT wants. Buses in Waterbury, New Britain and Meriden wear state colors (the CT Transit scheme used in 1996). It will be interesting to see if the SEAT buses wear the CT Transit paint or SEAT paint.
As New Haven had around 44 1990 Classics and an equal number of 1992 Classics, it appears that the 1992 Classics will be replaced come the Spring. Originally, I was told that some of these New Flyers will be going to Hartford, which still has many 1990 Classics. Perhaps New Haven's 1992 Classics will replace the 1990 Classics in Hartford, although CT Transit rarely transfers buses between Divisions.
The number of the bus pictured (371) is a bit of a mystery. If I remember, 301 and 302 are the two hybrid-electric buses in Hartford, and there are several MCI 45 foot commuter buses there (303-30?). Perhaps the latest order begins at 351?
The numbers for the D4500s are #303-309, there are only seven in the order...
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
I like the Orions but IMO, I think that Flxibles would have suited the MTA really well. Too bad they're out of business.
I do...You are CC 8TH AVE. LOCAL.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
I had heard recently that most of the former Newark Subway PCC cars have been sold to San Francisco, so you won't find them on Washington Street.
I like the idea of ETB's on Washington Street, but I suspect any cost-effectiveness studies would support bus service over ETB's.
Arti
«ESPECIALLY in the summer.»
I don't envison much demand for outdoor dining in the winter :-)
Arti
I think everything mystifies some of them, including traffic.
_I personally wish they one-wayed everything._
At least the streets, where buses have to run.
Arti
Arti
CC, I told you months ago that scanners are cheaper than a meal for 2 at a decent restaurant and you NEVER emailed me for info! Almost every week there are scanners on sale for $19.99 through $29.99 so stop using "I can't afford it" as an excuse. You CAN afford it so just go out and buy it already.
#8691 - B6
#9185 - B6 - LTD
#847 - L Shuttle
#7579 - L Shuttle
Da Hui
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Da Hui
Also, IIRC, NovaBus produced the Classic through late 1997. Correct me if I am wrong on any of these; we all learn from each other.
-F.
-F.
Don't ask this friggin' question again, I'm gonna answer it and then that is it, and DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT E-MAILING ME ANY MORE QUESTIONS.....
The M14 should be full articulated by next pick, the highest artic at Quill is 5747 however there is some missing in between, 5715-5724, 5742 and 5747. As you can see Quill does not have all of thier units yet!
Hope that helps!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC.
TransiTALK Online Shop
Lastly, you have a history of asking questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, even after someone has answered.
Yeah I said don't e-mail me because someone, who sure as hell types like you e-mails me over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again with the same questions.
So be greatful I even posted the info you asked for because judging by your history here, I don't think anyone was gonna answer.
Ungreatful bastard!
T.
BTW That's Mr. Jackass to you!
Trevor Logan
Ha!
:)
Da Hui
What gives with the trevor attack? No one's allowed to do that...
ME GRIMLOCK BASH BRAINS!
I don't remember the date off hand, I'll try to get that for you ASAP if no one else post it up first.
Regards,
Trevor :)
BIG AL
BIG AL
The Flxible suburbans didn't seem to have that "solid" feel that their transits did. Shift gears, and you'd hear the shift cables under the floor the whole length of the bus, and they rode like crap. They were loud, too. Strange, but that's the way I fel yet I loved driving the transits. The GM's felt like you were driving a tank down the road....solid as a rock, on the quiet side, shifted nicely and rode smoothly.
If you look at the Flxible serial lists, you can determine which were built as suburbans and transits. The transits have serials starting in the 50000-up series; if they are in this series they are TRANSIRS (which the NJT unit all are). The suburbans have a completely different series.
Underfloor luggage compartments are not a clear criteria, as many of Public Service's SDM5302s didn't have them either - s[ecifically the 1964 V700s, the 1965 W700s, and the first batch of 1966 X700s through 729.
Now the SCRTD S8M 5303-A's were the best buses in the fleet, very fast, very nice riding, easy to drive and clean looking. There are still a few of these around.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
www.regionaltransitservice.com
BIG AL
1998 Orion 06.501 Low Hybrid's #6350-6353 were originally ordered by New Jersey Transit as buses #4001-4004. Orion built the buses and so forth, but before the buses even left the plant for New Jersey Transit, NJT declined the buses. Because the MTA had ordered 10 Orion VI HEVs around the same time, the TA jumped on the chance to get 4 of the 10 buses at a cheaper price, thus the existance of #6350-6353 and why they are different from #6354-6359.
If NJT had taken and kept #4001-4004, then all 10 of the NYCT units would be exactly alike.
Now NJT has a new set of #4001-4004 and even up to 4007. #4001-4003 are 2001 NovaBUS RTS 82-VN Hybrids and #4004-4007 are 2003 MCI D4000 Cruisers.
Hope this helps you out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC
TransiTALK Online Shop
Have any of these been delivered to NJTransit yet? Last I heard, few if any of these were around yet.
Trevor
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Which depots will be getting artics for the first time?
Got this shot purely by luck, not my bus.
My 9310. Can even see the stairwell light lit up in the back inside.
The album of pics, including interior(no one rides this fast almost non-stop route)
I'm not sure how to tell the models, but what made me feel sure it was older, was the ductwork on the ceiling. I was contemplating getting a pic of it the whole time, but got a shot of everything else. The design of the slots/holes had this pattern that felt late 70's/early 80's to me.
Also, for a bus that's pretty new, theren't that many of these sitting around for PSTA unlike Hartlines that got quite a few.
The Flxible design actually dates back to the 1970s, believe it or not; it was first mass-produced in 1978 as the Grumman Flxible 870. Those had a lot of design problems with A-frame cracking and other problems, and many were recalled, including over 600 that saw brief use in NYC. The flaws were corrected, and in 1983 the coach was slightly redesigned and renamed the Flxible Metro.
Believe it or not, the first production prototype Grumman Flxible was built as early as 1976 and featured Alcoa aluminum wheels.
-F.
The A-frame problem was well-documented, and apparently occurred because Rohr failed to adequately test the 870 prototypes. When Grumman bought Flxible from Rohr, they were told that the bus was ready to go and began producing it. We all know what happened after that.
I'm not sure what the 'other problems' were with the 870. It is very common for new bus designs to have teething problems in the first years of production and the manufacturer to have to make refinements. Grumman made various improvements to the 870 design and debuted the Metro prior to spinning off Flxible as a stand-alone company. GMC went through the same issues during those years with the RTS - that is why they went from the '01' model through the '03' model to the '04' model in a span of less than five years. The same thing can be seen today with the various low-floor buses being produced.
Believe it or not, the first production prototype Grumman Flxible was built as early as 1976 and featured Alcoa aluminum wheels.
The prototype 870 actually had a Rohr nameplate - a picture is featured in the Flxible Transit Bus Photo Archive book from a few years ago.
Jim D.
-F.
1993, to be precise.
-Fred
-Fred
I think I remember seeing some Flxibles in Jacksonville when I was there last summer. Flxible used to have the statewide contract in Florida before their demise (Gillig has it now), so many agencies had them and may still have them in service.
Thanks for that info! I've been suspecious there was something going on with Gillig. With the exception of New Flyer, I was starting to guess that Hartline and PSTA share contracts or something, with them having the same buses(different options of course). I don't remember JAX too well, I was there on a sunday and think I recalled RTS a few years ago.
How does that contract work, is it like Tri-rail DMU's(or future ones i should say) where it's mainly earmarked money or what?
I'm not complaining, i like those Advantages, but if you have 2-3 major systems in close proximity, it'd be nice to have some sort of variety you know.
-F.
But, true, at least it is sunny today.
BIG AL
BIG AL
Jim D.
Next week though... :)
JD
It was the only time EVER that it snowed on my birthday, which is late april!
JD
-Fred
B68-#4468-TMC
B1-#9328-NOVABUS
The weather channel dude. Remember that storm of the century with 36 inches of snow? Guess what, it effected more than one city.
"The Perfect Storm" ring a bell?
Anyway, watch out for those Hard Freezes too, make your fruit prices go up.
I understand 100 years of timeshare and swamp salesmen have created some good propaganda and marketing, but if i have to hear a tourist go one more time how it's not warm, or it's raining or something like I'm on mars and not the northern hemisphere in winter, i'm gonna snap.
-F.
HELL
BIG AL
-F.
You know, and people go, "it gets hot in boston in the summer too". I should keep a list of names on this thread and come back this summer. Because there ain't nothing like the tropical heat of SW FL in the summer. Not Miami or Orlando compares.
see you in 6 months, haha.
BIG AL
Anyway.....
-F.
-F.
-F.
-Joe
www.miamidadetransit.com
-F.
The APTA report online mentions a good amount, 70 somehting maybe. Which would be 40% of the fleet.
It sounds like you have a nice fleet...70 Flxibles to choose from? Not bad at all. And smoke is normal once a bus gets a few years on it. How old is the fleet there?
-F.
0-5 years: 109 buses
6-11 :16
12-15:33
16-20:31
total 189, even though i think the hartline website says 177. BUt I'm guessing it's those flexibles that are pretty old, because other than that I THINK i've seen gillig phantoms and the rest are "newer" gilligs(the 109).
-F.
I saw a pic in a Richard Petty book once of where one of Daytona's 35-foot Flxes was painted all black and outfitted with what looked like chromed 5-hole wheel covers and had a side wrap of Richard Petty caricatured in his STP Pontiac as part of his Fan Appreciation Tour that commemorated his last season as a NASCAR driver in 1992. Does anyone know what happened to that coach? If it is still around in its wrap, it should be placed in the Petty Museum down in North Carolina. For once, a bus could have a place in racing history!
-F.
Mark
Meanwhile, everything we have ordered here since 1988 have been Gilligs.
-F.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Bx31 O7 7662
B31 Artic 1100
Bx31 O7 7662
Bx31 Artic 1100
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
MetroB
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
1st photo by myself, 2nd photo by "Incognito"
It is on Tripod so I can't load it remotely.
The pics presented by WMATA Oren, are one of the Demo Test Units and then the production unit.
The Demo unit, the operators window as you can see was the same as the right side window. HOWEVER because of the fuss that the bus was too much like a New Flyer product, Orion in the final design decided upon the more Orion-like driver's windsheild.
So when the TA received the Orion 07.501 HEVs, they'll be twin to the CNG versions just with battery packs on the roof instead of CNG Tanks...
Below are comparison Photos between the CNG and Hybrid versions:
Hybrid Version
CNG Version
Hope that helps!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
In celebration of NYC Transit hitting 100 years old, i am showcasing some bus pictures-old and new. Hope you like and comment. First picture is of days gone by at Ulmer Park garage(remember the GMC New Look plus the Flixibles ?)-Bus #6166 is a old express and is pictured here. Year is 1993.
PACE ran Orion 1 buses(as been documented here, #8851 and #8856 are assigned to Private Transportation)-#2357 assigned to Route #230 at Rosemont Station in April of 1998
The bottom bus pic is dated by the ad wrap too, zip drive. And to think that since then, i'm still commited to buy one someday.
B1-#9340-NOVABUS
B64-#4772-TMCRTS
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Great pics though Simon. This reminds me now of seeing buses in the gray and blue stripe scheme as late as the late 1980s. (I still remember buses like the old 5017 New Look bus in that scheme, when it was at ENY.)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Greater Bridgeport Transit Authority(GBTA) operates RTS buses and Gilligs. RTS buses are scheduled to be replace with delivery of Flyers. Gillig #9850 in full wrap(looks really cool) is at Bridgeport Transit Center in summer of 2003 on route #CL2 to Westport.
1st 1999s
2nd 1993s
and last the 1995/1996
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
MetroB
JD
The Stengel buses are always filthy - What is going on over there?
Ray
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
(heading west but already signed for outbound trip)
Better wear shades!
Allen Dicion
go.to/ttc1001
What about if one gets on at a terminal wanting to go to Howard Beach or Jamaica? Would they have to pay to leave the system?
Boarding station: Any station except Howard Beach or Jamaica
Exit station: Any station except Howard Beach or Jamaica
Cost: $0
Boarding station: Howard Beach or Jamaica
Exit station: Any station except Howard Beach or Jamaica
Cost: $5
Boarding station: Howard Beach or Jamaica
Exit station: Howard Beach or Jamaica
Cost: $10
Also, if you flip boarding and exit stations for all 3 of the above, the cost remains the same.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
This has been evident early-on. What is surprising is that AirTrain does not accept senior pay-per-ride Metrocards. You would think the turnstile could deduct the $5.00 from a senior card just the same way it does from any other pay-per-ride card, but it won't. Seniors with senior pay-per-ride cards need to purchase a regular pay-per-ride Metrocard to get through an AirTrain turnstile.
As an aside, I rode AirTrain for the first time yesterday. It is one very nice system, for those of you who haven't been out to JFK lately. Because this is BusTalk, I will mention that I did take the Q-10 to the airport, thereby avoiding one $5.00 AirTrain charge!
We were planning to get off at Terminal 4, but when the Q-10 stopped at Terminal 6 first (Jet Blue), we got off there, made a pit stop in the terminal, and then got on AirTrain. To ride the entire system, we rode to Howard Beach and then back to Terminal 1, took the inner loop all the way around and back to Terminal 1, then took a Jamaica train to Jamaica, caving in to pay the $5 charge there.
Your unlimited card probably will not work for both Airtrain and Subway.
No. You can enter the system at Howard Beach for free if you come in from the parking lot. And the ride isn't free, you just get free access to the system. Depending on where you get off, you might need to pay to exit.
Who the hell is talking about the subway?????????????? I sure as hell wasn't. Did you read what I wrote?
What system are you refering to? It looks like you mean the subway.
Yesterday, I drove to the long term parking lot at Lefferts Blvd station. Only paid the $3.00 parking fee and rode Airtrain.
Bill "Newkirk"
I believe the B15, Q3 and Q10 may still be running their old routing through all terminals, but some time in the next few months they are supposed to start serving Terminal 4 only.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Buses2/img_17691.jpg
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Today at West Farms Square, if you're in that exact spot there a run-down donut shop and place that once sold fried chicken (probably still does). Directly across the street is the drop-off and layover area for Bx9 buses and stops for the N/B Bx21, E/B Bx40/42 and Queens-bound Q44.
Peace,
ANDEE
I also recall seeing these run out of ENY and on Staten Island. They were the last buses to have grey seats, the foam rubber on the insides of the air-conditioning unit (to be replaced by metal in future buses) and the 'star' pattern on the ceiling.
At first, the signs on most buses of this model had that odd small 'printed' font (No borough letter preceding the route number) that lasted a short time in the late sixties. You'd also see this font on 1969 Flxibles running on FP, XT, FA and Bronx MaBSTOA routes-and as the occasional replacement roll on older and newer Bowls and Flxibles. This font in the subway system appeared the roll signs of the 40s, 42s and the newly installed signs on the R16s that indicated the 1967 routes and colors.
By 1974, it seemed that most roll signs on the '70 Bowls were replaced with either the early sixties block letter font or the large, ultramodern 'cryptic' seventies printed font that persists to this day on subway station signs. Of course, the 1976 Flxibles saw the introduction of the two-sectioned front roll sign containing the route number and principal streets of operation on the left under a black background and the destination on the right under red. Many older buses, all the way back to the 1962 Bowls, acquired this type of rollsign as well.
I forgot how strange an A/C Bowl looks in green. By 1974, virtually all of them were painted blue, along with Brooklyn's 1968 'Batwings' and 1969 Flxibles. Beginning in '78, some buses even received a third paint job that approximates the blue-on-white scheme of today's buses. Can't recall the degree of repainting on the older non-A/C MaBSTOA Fishbowls. Only QV's 4407 and FLU's 4451 remained green until about 1978 or '79. Many 1962-64 Bowls and 1966 Flexibles remained green until their belated (endless problems with RTS and Grummann) retirements.
I believe the background on the left portion of those roll signs was blue, not black.
Peace,
ANDEE
2. Transfer from the (N6/Q2) at 188th Street & Hillside Ave to the Q17
or
3. Transfer from the (N6/Q2/Q110) at Merrick Blvd & Jamaica Ave/165th st Termnial to the Q44(Archer&Merrick)?
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
I actually go out of my way to avoid traveling through the Flushing and Jamaica CBD's because of of all the traffic delays (e.g. Whitestone to Kew Gardens via Q76 and Q46).
Q4 - I was thinking the Q4 would travel past 235th St and continue along Linden Blvd to Elmont Rd. Then a right onto Elmont Rd and then proceed on Brookville Blvd and end at the Rosedale LIRR Station. Maybe end right where the Q86 used to end. Of course, that was just a thought...I don't think the Jamaica Depot has enough buses to extend that far. However, it would benefit residents along Brookville Blvd.
Q12 - Make the Q12 a LIMITED bus route along Northern Blvd. The Q12 limited would run between Sanford Av and 150th St to Northern Blvd and Bell Blvd. Nice idea, huh? I heard that ridership has increased
on the Q12.
Q16 - The Q16 to Fort Totten via Utopia Pkwy, why not just make those buses cross over Francis Lewis Blvd and make a left on Utopia Pkwy rather than just make a left on Francis Lewis Blvd and a right turn on 26th Av. A NEW transfer for the Q31 would be at Utopia Pkwy and 26th Av. I think that could work.
Q27 - More runs to Cambria Heights especially during the OVERNIGHT hours (12 AM - 5 AM)
Q30 - Make a Q30 LIMITED! Now wait, by taking the Q30 when I was going to Ryan JHS and to Queensborough Community College for there summer job program...yes, the Q30 does have buses that end at Springfield Blvd for Cardozo HS and QueensBorough Community College and Horace Harding Expwy for Ryan JHS, St. John's University and Jamaica and Edison High Schools (Actually, they could use either one.) Make a Q30 LIMITED during the evening rush hour. From Horace Harding Expwy and Springfield Blvd to at least Utopia Pkwy and Union Tpke. What about that? Although, I must be VERY optomistic...LOL!
Q49 - This NEW bus route would benefit Jamaica and Edison High School students and well as everybody else...of course! This bus would run from Merrick Blvd and Archer Av to Flushing Meadow Park. This would have most of the Jamaica and Edison High School students on that bus rather than walking in the middle of the street on 168th St, 167th St, 168th Pl, 84th Av, Gothic Dr...I would know because I use to live on 169th St between 84th Av and Gothic Dr. Here's a BRIEF description of the Q49:
- straight up 168th St
- then a left on 84th Av
- a right on 164th St
- straight up 164th St until Jewel Av
- continue on Jewel Av until the Van Wyck Expwy Extension
- use the turnaround under the highway and still at the park which would benefit people from getting off the Q65A and walking into the park. However, the Q49 would not run ALL the time. Every 10-15 minutes in the AM/PM rush hours and 30 minutes during the midday, evenings and weekends.
Q83 - Some Q83s should serve the Queens Village LIRR station during rush hours and overnight hours only.
Q84 - If the Q4 idea does not work then MAYBE extend the Q84 by making a left onto 130th Av and a right turn Brookville Blvd and end at the same place as the my idea for the Q4 would end.
Well, what do you think? Remember, be gentle with your comments. :)
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
That would be helpful as it will allow a direct connection to the N1 and N8, N4, Q5 and Q85. It will make a easier more direct route to Green Acres. And some south eastern queens North-South mobililty. Since virtually all buses go to Jamaica travling to and from destinations that are in the far out edges makes for out-of-the-way travel and transfers.
Lastly, QV cannot store 250 buses indoors. At best, you're looking at 20 tracks x 7 buses, which is 140 buses parked. 2 tracks with 6 MCI's each @ 12 buses, that's 162. 3 "tire shop" tracks x 5 buses @ 15 buses, totaling 177. 10 buses parked on the fuel ramp and 6 more on the inside wall for a total of 193 buses parked under the roof.
2 tracks are used for museum, storage, misc vehicle parking and bus cleaning.
Whoever told you QV can house 250 buses indoors lied. We're not even talking articulated buses. These are all standard 40' buses.
BIG AL
::confused::
I have already given you every square foot worth of actual bus parking.
Apparently, as Big Al indicates, you're getting your information from the DOB Insiders Guides, or from those who get their information from them. Those guides are woefully incorrect where QV is concerned.
As someone who drives the Q36, I should know. First-hand.
Q2 - extend to Jamaica LIRR sta move the Q43 out of that terminal
Q3 - move to same Terminal as Q83 stopping at Jamaica Center giving access to E,J,Z trains also to run down Jamaica Ave along with Q110 till Hollis Ave then Regular eliminating service along Hillside-187 Pl
Q4,5 - Leave as is just add a LTD run after 915
Q27- turn the blunder into gold add more Ltd runs during the day eliminate short turn at LIE- Sprngfld between 9-11 and 1-3. Make all nite buses go to Cambria Hgts no short runs at nite
Q30- make change of Southern Terminal from LIRR sta to Maspeth via Woodhaven Blvd Sta with Limited service to LIC Ferry Term short turn at Francis Lewis Blvd and with LTD stops
Q36- no change
Q43- extend to Myrtle Ave- Hillside - Jamaica Ave serves E train @ Jamaica/Van Wyck and J @ 121 st and addtional xfer to Q10 to JFK and Q55 to Ridgewood
Q44 no change
Q46- extend to Continental Ave/ Qns BLvd sta better connection to V,G and R Trains
Q55 extend to Brooklyn TO Bway/myrtle ave sta better connection to J
Q58- extend to 38th ave/Main St
Q59- extend to Continental Ave/Qns Blvd
Q85- reroute via Conduit ave to Farmers Blvd
Q88- reroute to Rego park via 73rd ave terminate at Target 54 ave/Qns Blvd
how are these ?
Q31 - no change
I think the Q43 Jamaica terminal is just fine.
B1-#9090-NOVABUS
NYCT has tried that several times, the most recent in 1996. The Village of Floral Park objected because of "all the buses" (two per hour!) that would clog Tulip Avenue and obstruct traffic. In response to that complaint, NYCT did a traffic engineering study of the intersection of Tulip Avenue & Carnation Avenue, where the Q79 would turn to loop around the LIRR station. The result: average "stopped time delay" (the amount of time spent by motorists waiting at red lights) would increase by only one-ninth (0.11) of a second.
My guess is that the Floral Park folks were worried about being invaded by "lowly" Queens residents. The irony is that the Floral Park section of Queens is, on a socio-economic level, almost identical to the Village of Floral Park.
2-The TA will like to extend the Q-58 but there is just no room in Flushing at this time
3-The Q-46 and Q-59 will never be extended to Continental Ave especially if the Q-60 is taken over by the TA.
4-I like your idea with the Q-43 but i will extend the Q-1 to the LIRR station instead of the Q-2
5-I do not understand your proposed Q-30 change
Any comments
Thank You
It a shame to see Flushing so busy at every time of day, it could use an intermodal terminal
It would be possible but this can be a pre-takeover however it would only be just for that duration until the Q60 is fully surveyed for service cuts or expansions
Ok the reason I decided on the Q2 was the LIRR station it was serving, it would be nice to send the Q1 to QV and Floral Pk from Sutphin Blvd
Well the Q30 issue was kind of out there but It would replace the Q88 and would be the LIE route using the service road the only reason for that was to have bus service from the Nassau-Qns border to LIC or a one seat ride to the east river, I do have a concern for this which would be the running time would could be as long as the M101 also when a new depot opens sooner or later this can be revisited as an extension of service
Jonn
JONN
Q4 - I was thinking the Q4 would travel past 235th St and continue along Linden Blvd to Elmont Rd. Then a right onto Elmont Rd and then proceed on Brookville Blvd and end at the Rosedale LIRR Station. Maybe end right where the Q86 used to end. Of course, that was just a thought...I don't think the Jamaica Depot has enough buses to extend that far. However, it would benefit residents along Brookville Blvd.
Q4- It sounds good but you already have the Q5 and 85 that serves that area. They wanted to do something like that but would face opposition. Of course if the MTA goes regional, there's no doubt that it should be done.
Q12 - Make the Q12 a LIMITED bus route along Northern Blvd. The Q12 limited would run between Sanford Av and 150th St to Northern Blvd and Bell Blvd. Nice idea, huh? I heard that ridership has increased on the Q12.
Q12- I totally agree with you on that one, I've seen Q12 volume and it is pretty heavy. On a side note, should the bus system go regional, this plan would look even more atractive; this would include the N20/21.
Q16 - The Q16 to Fort Totten via Utopia Pkwy, why not just make those buses cross over Francis Lewis Blvd and make a left on Utopia Pkwy rather than just make a left on Francis Lewis Blvd and a right turn on 26th Av. A NEW transfer for the Q31 would be at Utopia Pkwy and 26th Av. I think that could work.
Q16- I say it's fine the way it is. Is the demand for the Q31 up there?
Q27 - More runs to Cambria Heights especially during the OVERNIGHT hours (12 AM - 5 AM)
Q27- If that is done, then the late night frequency should go to every 1/2 hour meaning buses would run to Cambria Heights every hour and all buses serve the regular route up to Horace Harding Expwy.
Q30 - Make a Q30 LIMITED! Now wait, by taking the Q30 when I was going to Ryan JHS and to Queensborough Community College for there summer job program...yes, the Q30 does have buses that end at Springfield Blvd for Cardozo HS and QueensBorough Community College and Horace Harding Expwy for Ryan JHS, St. John's University and Jamaica and Edison High Schools (Actually, they could use either one.) Make a Q30 LIMITED during the evening rush hour. From Horace Harding Expwy and Springfield Blvd to at least Utopia Pkwy and Union Tpke. What about that? Although, I must be VERY optomistic...LOL!
Q30- I think you should leave that alone. I'm not sure a Q30 LTD would do any good.
Q46- I bring this up because I think that the 46 should have bi-directional LTD stop service on the weekdays. I have seen buses that were very crowded in BOTH directions. Artics would be good if they were to go to QV.
Q49 - This NEW bus route would benefit Jamaica and Edison High School students and well as everybody else...of course! This bus would run from Merrick Blvd and Archer Av to Flushing Meadow Park. This would have most of the Jamaica and Edison High School students on that bus rather than walking in the middle of the street on 168th St, 167th St, 168th Pl, 84th Av, Gothic Dr...I would know because I use to live on 169th St between 84th Av and Gothic Dr. Here's a BRIEF description of the Q49:
- straight up 168th St
- then a left on 84th Av
- a right on 164th St
- straight up 164th St until Jewel Av
- continue on Jewel Av until the Van Wyck Expwy Extension
- use the turnaround under the highway and still at the park which would benefit people from getting off the Q65A and walking into the park. However, the Q49 would not run ALL the time. Every 10-15 minutes in the AM/PM rush hours and 30 minutes during the midday, evenings and weekends.
Well if it doesn't run all the time, make it a 6 day a wek service or if the weekend demand isn't there, make it M-F only. I'm sure that it will not be needed on a Sunday. That means it would have to be a Q70's route since they only run 5 or 6 days a week. Since you mentioned Jewel Av, it could just replace the Q65A altogether but have it serve the 71 Av station. On the 84 Av option, wouldn't GC Parkway be a better option, I think so.
Q83 - Some Q83s should serve the Queens Village LIRR station during rush hours and overnight hours only.
Well I don't know about that.
Q84 - If the Q4 idea does not work then MAYBE extend the Q84 by making a left onto 130th Av and a right turn Brookville Blvd and end at the same place as the my idea for the Q4 would end.
Don't touch the Q84. the Q4 would be a better option, if that doesn't work it's not meant to be.
You need to redefine your use of the word "flop".
Q12 LTD---mayhaps if ridership continues to increase and/or the route is extended into Nassau County, which is not in the plans as of now.
Ray
Q27- turn the blunder into gold add more Ltd runs during the day eliminate short turn at LIE- Sprngfld between 9-11 and 1-3. Make all nite buses go to Cambria Hgts no short runs at nite
Of course a blunder or flop yes in reference to # of runs scheduled including your point of school hours so I guess this will be the same for summer school right Q5merrick?
J
Apparently, there are now two (2) bus stops northbound on Springfield Blvd and Jamaica Avenue. One on the southern side of Jamaica Avenue (near side) in front of the day care center, and another, the original Q27 bus stop at the far-side in front of the church.
As I understand it, the Flushing bound Q27's which originate from Cambria Heights will stop ONLY at the southern (near side) of Jamaica Avenue at the day care center. Short turn LIRR/QV Q27's will stop at the original location shared by the Q1 and Q88.
Here's the problem:
How are the intending passengers supposed to know where the next bus originates and in which stop to wait?!?! This is going to be a very dangerous issue with intending customners darting across Jamaica Ave in one direction of the other running for the appropriate Q27.
The stop should remain as-was, in front of the church.
Mark
The announcement came over the radio yesterday morning- Tony P instructed all originating Cambria Heights Q27's to board at the church, while all LIRR shorts board at the day care center.
What gives?? Can you check that out, or is that beyond your scope?
I don't get it. Highway lanes are expensive, especially urban areas. It'd cost more than $840 million to build an extra road lane, how are they doing this? And why's there an article from yesterday saying the system could cost 1.5 billion and a LRT is 1.6 billion or more.
No ones going to convert expensive private urbanized highway ROW into LRT tracks, unless that's embedded and shares the space with the buses I guess.
When I left the bus to go to lunch, I get in the car, turn on the radio, and guess what comes on? "SILVER SPRING" by Fleetwood Mac. This is where I met everyone for the first time and discovered what a busfan's paradise that station really is. Flxibles, Neoplans, Orions...everything you can think of, it was there in living color!
As an aside, the above song came out in 1997, around the same time that I visited DC and rode a WMATA bus for the first time. What a weird coincidence! And what was I working on today? A model of 9813, the very first Flxible I ever rode in Washington!
What a "Twilight Zone" experience that was...and wonderfully so.
-Fred
-Fred
In the 1950's, PTC fell under the evil influence of NCL and bought GM buses exclusively. This practice continued until SEPTA took over in 1968.
When a public agency takes over, they are governed by laws mandating that they take the lowest bid on purchases. Taking advantage of the rules, companies like Flxible deliberately low balled bus prices to capture the contract. That explains the Flxible dominance in the 70's at SEPTA.
The 80's were more tricky, with newer rules for ordering buses and some manufacturers sometimes picking and choosing which properties they would build buses for. The A-frame disasters at Flxible killed some properties desire for their products [like NYCTA, SEPTA] so they went out to GM [NYCTA] and SEPTA tried Neoplan.
If a bus works quite well on a property, then that transit agency will go out of their way to keep ordering buses from that manufacturer like NYCTA [RTS], NJT [Flxible], SEPTA [Neoplan], WMATA [Flxible, then Orion] because a single supplier helps keep costs low by standardizing their fleet.
I hope that explains your query.
What's going on there?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
-F.
I wouldn't really say that SEPTA "jumped around" per se. Between 1982-1989, SEPTA was all Neo, all the time (to paraphrase KYW NewsRadio 1060 in Philly and 1010 WINS in NYC). It wasn't until the mid-1990s when the fleet began to get interesting.
SEPTA'S MODERN (Post-Fishbowl/New Look) ERA/PART 1 (1980s)
The "modern era" of SEPTA buses really began in 1980 with the purchase of 285 40-ft GMC RTS slantbacks (8000-8284 - the last 20 of which were specifically assigned to Red Arrow) and 13 35-ft RTS slantbacks (4458-4470). The RTS buses were the first wheelchair accessible buses ordered by SEPTA.
Following the RTS order, SEPTA went with Neoplan for virtually all future purchases between 1982 and 1989.
The AK series (8285-8434) were wheelchair accessible and the first series of Neoplans delievered to SEPTA in 1982. 8411-8434 were the suburban (soft seat) buses.
The BD series (8435-8584) were not wheelchair accessible; there would be no future wheelchair accessible buses until 1988. These buses were delivered in 1983. 8562-8584 were the suburbans.
(I beleive that the BDs were delievered as part of the massive 1,000 vehicle PennDOT order for transit systems across the Commonwealth; I keep forgetting if it was this order or the next order.)
The AK and BD series had a older Allison tranny (can't recall the exact model), but were memorable to me because they had a toggle switch to change gears. All Neoplan 35/40-ft buses had/have a 6V92TA engine.
The BM series (8601-8725) were delievered in 1984; 8698-8725 were subrubans.
The BP series (1301-1325) were also delivered in 1984; these were the 35-ft buses that rotated all over the system during their tenure.
The CD series (8726-8875) were delievered in 1985; 8851-8875 were the suburbans.
The BM, BP, and CD series buses had the Allison V730 tranny.
In between the Neoplan 6V92TA/Allision orders were the Volvo artics (7001-7050). As part of a settlement due to delays in the delivery of the buses, SEPTA recieved a Volvo 40-ft bus built to RIPTA specs (8590). This bus had soft seats similar to the Neoplan suburbans and was assigned to Allegheny for its entire career at SEPTA, mainly used on the 9 and 27. These were the only non-Neoplan buses delivered between 1982 and 1989.
The DK series (3000-3131) were delievered in 1986; 3117-3131 are the suburbans. 3122-3131 were equipped with rear destination signs that rarely ever worked; these were the last rear signs ordered by SEPTA until the New Flyer order.
The EB series (3132-3251) were delivered in 1987; 3237-3251 are the suburbans. 3200 was later retrofit with a TwinVision LeDot flip-dot sign, then later with a TwinVision All-LED orange sign.
The EI series (3252-3371) were delivered in 1988; 3357-3371 are the suburbans. These were the first wheelchair accessible buses since the AK series.
The EZ series (3372-3491) were the last Neoplan 40-ft buses, delievered in 1989; 3450-3479 are the suburbans. 3414 was later retrofit with a DDC 50/Allison powertrain.
The DK, EB, EI, and EZ series buses were equipped with a 6V92TA/ZF 5HP490 powertrain.
Between 1989 and 1996, this was pretty much the fleet that SEPTA had:
8000-8284: GMC RTS 40-ft
4458-4470: GMC RTS 35-ft
8285-8584: Neoplan (1st generation)
8601-8875: Neoplan (2nd generation)
1301-1325: Neoplan (35-ft/part of 2nd generation)
3000-3491: Neoplan (3rd generation)
7001-7050: Volvo artics
8590: Volvo 40-ft (part of artic settlement)
SEPTA'S MODERN (Post-Fishbowl/New Look) ERA/PART 2 (1990s and Beyond)
In 1996, however, the face of the fleet started to change...
The 5001-5400 series NABIs began arriving on the property. These were the first of the newer SEPTA buses which featured the automatic stop announcement system. When the NABIs arrived, the RTS, Neo AKs, and a large number of Neo BDs were retired, mostly operating out of Frankford.
Also in 1996, SEPTA began one of the worst experiments of recent memory: the purchase of those hated Ford cutaway buses. About 5-6 were originally purchased for the 310/Horsham Breeze service in Montgomery County. Originally numbered 201-204, they were later numbered 2001-2004, with two more (2005-2006) confirmed to have been built (there has never been a confirmation that there ever a 2007-2009 ever built). Since these buses were for a "new" service, no buses were retired.
In fact most of the remaining Fords (2010-2018, built 1997; 2019-2051, built 1998; and 2052-2069, built 1999) were for new services and not used as fleet replacement. 2029-2051, however, forced the moving of most of the Neo BPs from Frontier to Red Arrow, however only a few more BDs were retired as best as I can recall.
(Interesting side note - not too long after the Fords were delivered, a few of them made their way down to Red Arrow for use on the 107, 111, and the (then) new 305. That experiment didn't last too long, but it was a very interesting sight to see a Ford laying over at 69 St Terminal.)
The next wave of retirements took place in 1999-2000, when the Neoplan artics (7101-7255) arrived on SEPTA property. Not only were all of the Volvos retired, but almost all of the remaining BDs and some BMs and CDs were also retired.
The ElDorados (4501-4580) replaced the remaining BPs and a few BMs and CDs, they arrived in early 2001.
The first batch of New Flyers (5401-5500) arrived at SEPTA in mid-2001. This took care a lot of the BMs and CDs, however a few of these buses were still in service at Callowhill (BM), Comly (CD), Frankford (BM and CD), and Midvale (BM) with a few of both models scattered between Red Arrow and Frontier.
The second batch of New Flyers (5501-5600), which arrived in 2002, retired almost all of the remaining CDs at the Northeast Philadelphia depots. A few BMs remained, mostly at Midvale and Callowhill.
The first order of Hybrids (5601H-5612H) and the third batch of New Flyer diesels (5613-5712) arrived last year, taking out all remaining 8000s, a lot of DKs, and a few EBs.
Oh, BTW, most of the Fords will be pulled from service once the Champions (2070-2097) are put into service, if and when that happens (it was supposed to have happened last month).
The next order of diesels (5713-5830) along with the remaining 20 hybrids (tentatively 5831H-5850H) and the soon to return PCC-II cars for Girard Avenue restoration will essentially mark the end of the road for the DKs and EBs, which will make SEPTA fixed route buses fully accessible. The diesels will be on SEPTA property within the next 2-3 months; the hybrids are due this summer.
The next two orders of New Flyers (200 with annual options in 2005 and 2006 for 20 each) are expected to take out the remaining Neos.
So, now, this is where we stand (and, no, we won't count the Fords on this list, because they suck):
5001-5400: NABIs (replaced RTS/AKs/some BDs)
7101-7255: Neo artics (replaced Volvo artics/remaining BDs/BMs/CDs)
4501-4580: ElDorados (replaced BPs/some 8000s) (NOTE: First order with bike racks)
5401-5500: New Flyer D40LF (1st diesel batch) - replaced some 8000s
5501-5600: D40LF (2nd diesel batch) - replaced remaining CDs/some BMs (except Midvale and Callowhill assignments) (NOTE: First 40-ft order with bike racks)
5601H-5612H: DE40LFs (1st hybrid batch) and 5613-5712: D40LFs (3rd diesel batch) - replaced remaining 8000s/some non-w/c 3000s
5713-5830: D40LF (4th diesel batch) and 5831H-5850H: DE40LF (2nd Hybrid batch) - will replace remaining non-w/c 3000s
Future orders of D40LF/5851-5970 (5th diesel batch) due 2005 and 5971-6090 (6th diesel batch) due 2006 - will replace remaining 3000s.
This will pretty much keep the fleet in shape until at least 2008-09 when the NABIs start to be phased out.
I am amazed that from the time I moved down here in 1995 until now, almost the entire SEPTA bus fleet from 1995 will have been "turned over" by 2006. The next few years should be very interesting down here to say the least.
In 1979, when Metro took over what was then Houtran, there were about 400 plus buses, most of which didn't work very well. There were alot of 60's New Looks, a smattering of Old Looks (most if not all were replaced by RTS-01s in 1977 and 78), and the RTS-01s.
The first buses Metro ordered were 326 Grumman 870s. They were numbered 800-1125. Later, 1126 showed up to replace the burned 885. These were the second ADBs on the property after the RTS-01s, numbered 1700-1851. The Grummans also had W/C lifts and the RTS-01s could kneel. The W/C lifts on the Grummans were never used however as they through the doors out of alignment. Both the Grummns and RTS-01's had the 8v71 engines.
The New Looks should have been up for replacement, but since Metro was so short of buses, about 200 were placed into rehab. They were of various numbers, but they were all renumbered to the 33-34xx series. They were given new seats and new A/C, some of the coldest in the fleet from what I've heard.
Also, Metro received the Eagle 05s in 1979 as well. They were numbered 1200-1254. They were used on Express and Park and Ride routes.
The 870's were a disaster and the RTS-01s were no better. The Grummans had frame problems of course and the RTS-01s had air conditioning, engine, and electrical issues (alot of then caught fire at the end of their careers). In 1981, Metro took delivery of eight RTS-04 buses, 1901-1908. They were painted in what I like to call Metro's "ravishing red scheme." Metro was pleased with them and so in 1982 Metro took delivery of 1909-2038 (correct me I'm wrong) and they csme painted in the new and current Metro "3 Stripes Scheme." All buses that were to be repainted in the scheme had to go through rigorous testing and rehabilitation. Also, during this time, Metro sold off 226 of the Grummans and sent 100 back to Flxible to be refurbished.
In 1983, the Grummans returned as basically hybrids. They were numbered 1600-1699. They still rattled like hell and five burned up in a garage fire at Polk. They still sported their 8v71 engines and jellyroll seats and the trademark "Flxible" logo on the window sashes. Also in 1983, the last order of RTS were delivered, my favorites, 2039-2188. All RTS had the 6v92TA engines. By now, rehab work was done on the New Looks and RTS-01s which still sported the sloped back, but also Sutrak A/C units.
In 1984 and 85, Metro took delivery of the Eagle 10s, numbered 1255-1354. They were used on the Park and Ride routes. Also, in 1985, the year of my birth, Metro took delivery of the Flxible Metro As, numbered 2200-2356. I never saw 2355 or 2356. They were quieter than the 1600s in both engine noise and rattling. They were also some of the fasted buses in the fleet. Also in 1985, Metro took delivery of one Skillcraft minibus, 3085.
The first articulated buses came to Metro in 1985 as well. They were the hideous looking Crown Articulated coaches. 1400-1444 were transit coaches and 1445-1449 were suburban coaches. They had an odd motor. I never got to ride one of these before they were put out to pasture.
In 1986, the first Neoplans came onto Metro property in the form of AN430s 3000-3029 and Neoplan Suburban Coaches 1150-1164. The Neoplans 1100s had roll signs that never operated. Most of the time Metro just used paper or card board signs to display the route. I rode an 100 pnce, they had a lever that operated the seat and a net to hold your belongings. They also had lifts, the only buses in the fleet with them now. They were used on the higher end park and ride routes.
in 1988 Metro received 5 MAN buses. They were numbered 3090-3094. They weren't here too long however as they were sold off to New Orleans.
In 1989, Metro received the first of what I call the "career killers." They were the Ikarus 416 buses. They were the first transit coaches with working lifts. They were numbered 2400-2404. This was going be the first in a shake up of the Metro fleet.
Well, I'm tired, I'll post the next 15 years later.
Da Hui
The only thing they had going for them were their Cummins C5.9s.
-F.
-F.
Now does anyone knows the numbers and models of Pittsburgh's 410 buses from the same order?
The breakdown of PATransit's Neoplans:
3500-3512 = 1982 AN-440-A
3513-3864 = 1983 AN-440-A
1600-1644 = 1983 AN-435-A
Pittsburgh had pretty major problems with them early on, but they grew to be halfway decent buses. They began to phase out the 40-footers in 1994, most were gone by 1999, and a half-dozen or so made it to 2002. Pittsburgh has the curious habit of keeping a few troopers in service even years after most of the rest of that fleet has been retired. Most 35-footers made it all the way until early 2003, when a rash of Gillig Phantoms arrived and slammed the door shut on the Pittsburgh Pennliner.
Despite all the early Pennliner problems and against PATransit's will, they went back to Neoplan for 60 more 40-footers in 1986 (3900-3959). Those actually turned out to be great buses; those disappeared from service more recently.
(read OMOT's excellent Transit Talk board and you'll absorb a lot more of this info...)
The BM series (8601-8725) were delievered in 1984; 8698-8725 were subrubans.
The BP series (1301-1325) were also delivered in 1984; these were the 35-ft buses that rotated all over the system during their tenure.
The CD series (8726-8875) were delievered in 1985; 8851-8875 were the suburbans.
The BM, BP, and CD series buses had the Allison V730 tranny.
Ak's and BD's has an 6v92TA MUI with an ALLision HTB-748 transmission
BM's, BP, CD has an 6v92TA MUI with an allision htb-740 transmission
Dk's EZ EI and EB's has the 6v92TA DDEC/ With an ZF ECONMAT 4HP-500 transmission.
-F.
That also explains the NABI order, which was a virtual maintenance nightmare for SEPTA when those buses first arrived. In fact, the original contract called for 400 buses with an option for 200 more. The initial problems with the NABIs effectively killed any chance for the option to be executed. This was during the transition period between the American Ikarus brand and the NABI brand; the changeover took place right in the middle of the SEPTA order, hence some SEPTA NABIs have an "American Ikarus" builders plate, with later buses sporting a "North American Bus Industries" builders plate. (For some odd reason, I had neglected to mention that in my novel posted further down in the thread.)
In any case, this is from a SEPTA Staff Summary dated June 26, 2000, when SEPTA placed its order for the 12 (soon to be 32) hybrid low floor buses:
"A recent change in the Pennsylvania law permits negotiation on vehicle procurements. This approach provides the greatest flexibility to select the offeror whose performance is expected to meet or exceed the stated requirements of the Authority. These requirements include the evaluation of the technical aspects of the vehicle, quality and delivery to meet the service committments of the Authority. A performance-type Specification was proposed which permitted any service-proven vehicle to be offered which met SEPTA's service plan requirements."
Based on that paragraph in an official SEPTA document, it appears that lowest bid is no longer the automatic qualifier to win a vehicle contract in Pennsylvania. Of course, I'm not an attorney, but that's how it reads to me...
JD
B1-#9324-NOVABUS
B68-#607-Orion V CNG
Washington DC in the Capital Transit/early DC Transit era (until 1960) was clearly a "White" property (no pun intended) because White Motors built virtually all of the company's buses. DC was a non-GM property till about 1958 when the first GMs (and one of the last orders of 5106s) appeared there.
San Francisco Muni also purchased a large fleet of Whites in the late 1940s, then acquired a fleet of 450 Mack C49s between 1955 and 1960 under a leasing program.
My point? Sticking to one manufacturer keeps parts inventories uniform, keeps mechanics familiar with the vehicles, and standardizes maintenance practices.
Speaking of Macks, another city with a Mack-dominated fleet was the Niagara Frontier Transit System (NFT) in Buffalo.
For many years, GM Old Looks were the bus of choice here. In fact, 3501s were ordered as late as 1965, while most cities were getting Fishbowls. We finally got New Looks in 1969, as that was the first year they were offered as a 30-footer.
After that, Flxible became the bus of choice. Sold by the reliability New Looks of 1976, Valley Metro rounded out their fleet with Grumman Flxibles in 1979. The Flx New Looks are still quoted by them to be the best buses they ever ran.
They would continue to bid on Flxibles until their 1988 order; in hopes of having Metros, the bid came up high. As a result, five Gilligs were ordered, and that is all we have gotten new ever since. In fact, more Gilligs will arrive soon to replace the 1991 models.
In between those times, we have gotten a few oddballs; part of the 1988 order included 25-foot Skillcraft buses. Made in Venice, Florida, these were primarily airport shuttles; ours were the only five ever made for transit and were the last Skillcrafts ever. They went bankrupt a week after delivery, and the drivers hated them.
We also got two Thomas SLFs; while they are aesthetically pleasing, they cannot handle the hilly areas of Roanoke, and the skirt panels are a nightmare to keep straight. Valley Metro considered more of them for the 2004 order, but decided against it for those reasons.
That's pretty much what shapes a municipal bus order; bid first, then reliability. If a bus is a stinker, it never gets ordered again!
-F.
-Fred
FRIENDSHIP HEIGHTS
STATION
except since FRIENDSHIP HEIGHTS is far too long for the display, it just said ENDSHIP HEIGH. Also, some LEDs weren't turning off properly, so the HEIGH didn't really look like HEIGH, it looked like even more jibberish. The front sign seemed to be leaving off the word STATION, which is how the buses are susposed to be programmed.
Then, once the light changed, at the next block, 4051 was coming out of Western Garage and was turning right from 43rd Street onto Jenifer. Where did this bus come from? I don't believe it was ever at Western before.
Also, what year did these buses first enter service for Triboro Coach? I remember seeing them in the mid-90s.
Bus #G2050-G2073
Engine: 10.0L Cummins L-10G Natural Gas Engine Rated at 280 HP
Transmission: ZF ECOMAT HP-500 5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Hope That Helps!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The ZF Transmission is more common place in America than the Voith, though I am a HUGE Voith fan but ZF is way more common place, and nowadays more properties are ordering ZF Transmissions.
Allison has had its hay day, but the newer Allison transmissions are very problematic. They are quite jerky, wimpy on hill power (Except if you have a highly tuned engine attached), and use a lot of cheap ass proprietary parts.
The ZF Transmission is very powerful, VERY efficient and use decent parts. A lot of properties are realizing this and changing over to ZF (NJT, SEPTA, etc.). The MTA could not fully change over to ZF Transmissions even though the 50 that are on the property have proven themselves to be better than the Allison’s. The MTA has too many Allison Transmissions on the property, and the retraining of maintenance to learn the ZF trannies would be massive.
The reason why Voiths aren't as popular is because they are an expensive transmission to maintain, HOWEVER out of the 3, Voith has the most guts. Prime example is the Bee-Line Flxible METRO "B" buses which have a Detroit Diesel Series 92 DDEC to a Voith D863.3 ADR Tranny. No had those buses been equipped with Allison VR-731s, those buses would not walk those hills and run like they do with the Voiths in them.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Transportation Media Group, LLC
"VOITH FOREVER"
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
I know on Ride-On's buses, they LAUNCH the bus down the street, but with WMATA's Flxibles, they really don't do that much, especially when you are in the 1st gear going up a big hill on New Hampshire Ave (WMATA K6).
I agree with Allisons. In fact, one of the things I strongly dislike about the New Flyers is the transmission gear shifts. When you are going up a hill, the RPM goes so far down that the bus is VIBRATING harshly before it would downshift. I've noticed this on the "big neos" (SEPTA's Neo artics) as well.
SEPTA had ZF trannies literally all my life, and they were always my favorite buses, they have the most interesting sound of a gear shift. I almost can't wait for the next batch of New Flyers to come in, so hopefully I'll have the chance to ride a new ZF tranny.
Voith's are expensive? Ride-On is rich (most of their fleet is made up with Voith trannies).
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Enter
-F.
Thanks for visiting anyway. I put more stuff, go and look! :P
-Fred
I like how the NYCTA, just like SEPTA, puts all the connecting bus routes on their maps next to the cross streets. It's amazing how many companies I see that dont do that. Without them it's like i'm doing a research project to be able to plan a trip with all the cross referencing and master maps.
Da Hui
The location in question is the upper left corner, above the driver's cab.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
What I mean though, is that the number is on the left side of where the route sign is in the back, rather than on the top.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
I believe the entire 1981 order of RTS's came in this way. I don't remember off-hand whether that continued with the 1982 order, but sometime in the early 1980's the back number was moved to the top from that left side position.
MetroB
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Orion V 9918, on the 57
Gillig Phantom 9734, layover on the 6A
The Gillig was on layover. I did not get to take a picture of it with its sign up. The question is, why two different paint schemes? (I presume the Gillig is a 1997 model, and the Orion a 1999 model, but I could be wrong.)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
D.
S63 Smithhaven Mall
-F.
There's actually a kind of logic to Suffolk Transit's route numbering scheme...
"Main line" routes:
- numbered with S-prefix;
- provide medium-to-long-distance connectivity among villages and government/employment centers;
- starting with S1 near the Nassau border and increasing to S94 at Montauk;
- odd numbers for north-south, even numbers for east-west.
"Feeder" routes:
- numbered with letter-suffix (e.g. 2B, 10E) but no S-prefix;
- generally provide circulator service within a community and connections to "main line" routes;
- starting with 1A, 1B near the Nassau border and (generally) increasing from west to east.
Dave
6A CORAM
Besides, how many folks from Suffolk County are going to travel to Staten Island -- so there shouldn't be much confusion anyway.
Da Hui
WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Seven thousand Westchester Bee-Line bus passengers could lose their rides this fall if the county eliminates or reduces service on 44 bus routes to close a $1.6 million budget gap.
The system would lose 25 bus routes and all nine loop shuttle buses, and reduce or eliminate weekday or weekend service on 10 more routes, starting in September. That would mean longer waits, longer walks and more crowded buses for thousands of residents, workers, retirees and students.
Although Transportation Commissioner Larry Salley yesterday said the county tried to minimize the losses for its poorest riders, who are most reliant on the buses, the service reductions would affect almost all types of passengers.
They include commuters and their home health aides and baby sitters, who travel among at least a half-dozen communities and six railroad stations. The cuts also would affect clerical workers, office cleaners, Web designers and cafeteria workers from Tarrytown to Harrison, students at Gorton High School in Yonkers and at Mamaroneck High School. More than 30 Liberty Lines bus drivers, mechanics and supervisors also would lose their jobs, Salley said.
For Nikisha Hayes, 20, who is living in transitional housing for the homeless, the news posed yet another hurdle in her already complicated life.
"They should leave the 41 bus," said Hayes, who had her 2-year-old daughter, Mahoganey, wrapped head to toe in blankets to keep her from freezing while she waited at the White Plains TransCenter for a connecting bus back to Greenburgh. "The 40 will be too crowded. It's already hard to get a seat. You can fall and get hurt.''
Notices about the planned cuts were to be on Bee-Line buses today.
The Bee-Line's deficit was created when the county legislature approved its 2004 budget last month with the built-in $1.6 million shortfall. The county raised fares last year and increased the system's budget by another $2.4 million this year, but still faces a deficit over higher salaries, insurance and fuel costs, Salley said.
Rather than drop fewer routes at the start of the year, the county put off making any cuts until the fall to try to persuade the state Legislature to increase the state's contribution to the county bus system. If that effort fails, the system will be stripped far more in the last three months of 2004 than it would have been if the deficit were made up during the course of the year.
"We know that many people are dependent on our transit system to get to work, to get to school, to get to medical appointments and to conduct their lives," Salley said. "This is not something we relish doing, in any way shape or form. However, we are hit with some stark realities. Our major problem is we still do not receive Westchester's fair share of state operating assistance. Taxpayers and riders are paying much more for our share of operating the system. All we're asking for is to be treated equitably."
The county is focusing on Long Island Bus, a suburban bus system similar in size to Westchester's, to make its case to the state. Long Island Bus carries 2 million more riders annually than Westchester's 29 million, and received $33.9 million from the state last year, compared to Westchester $25 million.
The nearly $9 million difference between the two is expected to continue this year, Salley said. At the same time, Westchester's taxpayers have been contributing far more to run their system than those in Nassau County. Westchester's taxpayers contributed $20.7 million to the Bee-Line last year, while Nassau's provided $8.3 million to Long Island Bus.
The Bee-Line cost $95.4 million to run last year, compared to $100.4 million for Long Island Bus.
"It's Westchester residents and taxpayers that are getting short shrift here," Salley said. "We're not picking on Nassau. We're just laying the facts on the table. Why are we being treated differently?"
Westchester's bus system is delivered by the county, not a separate authority, so its state aid does not include a portion of the state mortgage recording tax that other transit systems run by public authorities receive. But Salley said that didn't change the county's position that it is underfunded.
Assemblywoman Amy Paulin, D-Scarsdale, has invited Westchester's Assembly delegation, members of the county board and the county administration to present their arguments to members of the Assembly's Ways and Means committee next month.
"My goal and the Westchester delegation's goal is to make sure Westchester gets its due," Paulin said. "If we learn the county is not getting as much money as other counties, then we will work together to make sure that they do."
The threatened cuts are a deja vu for many riders, who faced the reduction or elimination of some bus lines last year before the county raised the base fare from $1.40 to $1.75. Express bus riders swallowed an even larger increase, as their base one-way fare went from $4 to $7. In October, county officials announced they would eliminate the BxM4C express bus service to Manhattan, which serves 700 riders, and the 91 and 92 routes to Playland this fall. That announcement, along with word that more cuts were coming, was met with outrage from riders, who submitted a 500-signature petition to the county and are working to mobilize more support.
Earlier this month, a private bus company offered to take over the express bus service if the county drops it, but it is unclear how or if that will occur.
Reach Caren Halbfinger at chalbfin@thejournalnews.com or 914-694-5004.Reach Caren Halbfinger at chalbfin@thejournalnews.com or 914-694-5004.
On Hylan Blvd.
Four 1999 Orion v's for Eggbert Junior High
Two TMC RTS' (from Yukon) for Eggbert Junior High
(Eggbert has special runs for school children s76e/78w/78e/51)
GMC RTS 4xxx on s78????????
TMC RTS 8307 on s79
Orion V 6244 on s78
Orion V 13x on s79
On Amboy Rd.
3 1999 Orion V on s54?????
On Richmond Ave.
2 GMC RTS' on s59
2 1993 Orion V's on s44 (165 and 16x)
Orion V's 6266 and 472 (Not In Service)down near Yukon with CAS stickers
Many RTS' driving (Not In Service) around the SI Mall area
3 TMC RTS' seen on s44
1 GMC RTS seen on s94
So I guess the changes did happen. All of the RTS' had Yukon stikers. I just can't get over how I saw an RTS on the s78 and three back to back s54. Maybe the three s54 buses were for a school run as they all didn't have anyone on them.
BusTalker's HELP ME OUT HERE!
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Why is that left out? The bus line runs through federal property too.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
No express service, no Playland specials, no limited service, no service along the offices of the Westchester Ave/I287 strip, commuter RR connections will be decimated too. How can they say that Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mount Vernon and Peekskill should be segregated from White Plains? I rode on the #3 from Van Cortlandt Park to White Plains and there is a good crowd on those buses. Same for the 41 too to East 241st st in the Bronx from White Plains. These limited routes are what makes Bee-line popular with customers.
Thank You Very Much
Robert
Mitchell Field:
N6,N15,N20/N21,N22/N22A,N23,N24,N26,N27,N28,N35,N40/N41,N43,N45,N46
N47,N48/N49,N50,N51,N54/N55,N57/N58,N70/N71/N72,N73/N74,N78/N79,N80/81
Wow, it looks like 35ft long and 96" wide. I wonder if they are using Detroit Diesels there...:)
-F.
Typographical error. Sleepy time!
-F.
Credit: John Veerkamp of Bus Explorer
B1-#9086-NOVABUS
B4-#9104-NOVABUS
NYCTA won't buy buses that aren't made in New York State, let alone China!
David
Jim D.
-F,
(Hey, *I* just paid $1632.75 in sales tax on a new Ford Ranger six months ago....)
On that note, it would be nice if bus manufacturers would take a hint from automakers and inject retro styling into transit coaches. It would make for some great rolling stock! The Invero is a step in the right direction, especially with some of its Fishbowl-like elements.
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The decal actually predates my bus by 7 years; it was made in 1983. :)
-F.
That said, I need info on the areas bus system. This includes inter-city services, small suburban only services, anything relating to surface transit in Tampa and the surrounding area.
Da Hui
Besides, I think 40% of the cities in this state are people from NY. But at least they don't do what a certain midwestern state does. The people have to begin every sentence with "where I come from...". Ask anybody, I'm sure you'll find someone who can guess the state. :)
...it's corn bread and chicken, where I come from, a lotta back porch pickin....
I'm impressed though, you're from new york? haha
I like Eminem, so I think I'll do fine.
Yea, it's a damn rare thing up here. I was suprised when the Brooks&Dunn concert was sold out.
I always like it when someone quotes a country song to someone who doesn't follow that music, and tries to be all poetic, it's funny.
Good thing it's a military base, or the developers would've had their greedy little hands briding everyone to get control of that prime piece of real estate that everything else.
Other than that, there's smaller cities, and of course Greyhound.
You may see a yellow Mears tourbus once in a while too. Mr. Mears owns the largest transportation group in the SE, even though it's based in Orlando, but you'll see their buses everywhere.
That's pretty much it, unless you visit the APTA website and do a local search by state.
Also, if you're like me, and live on one side of the bay, and possibly have a monthly pass, and want to visit tampa, you'll notice how there's 4 different ways to get there, with 5 different options on how to pay/price points. Drives me insane, literally. Hartline and PSTA aren't interoperable in their passes, and some of the cross the bay/hartline crosstown express buses all have separate fare's too.
There's also the Marion Street Transit Parkway in D/t tampa. For buses only during the day. The lights aren't timed right so it takes them a while to travel down that road. Supposedly there's 400 something bus trips per day on that road, but don't expect to see a mad rush.
Chimp escapes from cage, relatives from THE BUS saying we got a job waiting for you when you come, chimp returns willingly to cage where it escaped, rather being a worker for THE BUS, it is going to stay in its cage where people lear at it and make faces and fun of it. Hey it made the right choice.
Da Hui
Proven tonight that these Orion VIIs are VERY maneuverable.
Fresh Pond is slated for 65 of these puppies and you can bet your ass they'll be there, right after MCH and QV receives thier sets.
Realize this, if the RTS can make, the Orion VII can definately make it, the RTS has the most horrible wheelbase in the industry thus making it one of the toughest buses to navigate. The Orion VII, HELL ORIONS PERIOD, have a shorter wheelbase making them WAY MORE maneuverable in tight spots!
Oz, stay in a traffic checkers place!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
DOB can always change this order at any given time...So only time will tell, just like when JG was supposed to get 7560-7684, but DOB for some reason changed the order to 7560-7654 and gave the rest to WF along with extra 5 Orions to make the Order 160 Orion VIIs for WF, that's some BS...:-(
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
FP is gonna get thier buses, but like the artic order the numbers may move around, the point is that the statement Ozzy made was not true and I corrected him.
Got Me?!
Trevor
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
j/k ;-)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Before I say anything else, I am not affiliated with this seller.
The above auction is for both a 1983 Flxible Metro and a 1982 RTS; so far, the bid is $1000 for bith of them. But they have a weird maroon paint scheme with gold and shite stripes. Does anyone know which property used to run them? The Flx is a no. 316.
At first, I thought that was a deal for two buses, then I looked at their pics and stats; they are torn UP! See the link for details.
-F.
Oh yes, and they are listed as a "Flexible Metro" (wrong spelling) and a "GMC Metro". Whoever listed these needs a refresher course!
Hey, at least I spelled Flxible right! :)
-F.
Peace,
ANDEE
-F.
Does this mean a roadtrip to Atlanta Georgia?
Does this mean a roadtrip to Atlanta Georgia?
-F.
Old buses are tougher than we give credit to.
-Joe
-Fred
So far on the inside, all I have really done is take out three rows of seats and bolt in my workbench and spray booth. Future plans include removing all but the front side-facing transit seats and installing a table towards the center, complete with a pair of Jersey Cruiser MC-9 reclining seats facing each other. That way I not only have a nice "office space", but it also doubles as a breakfast nook.
For the rear, I will go one of two routes once the seats are removed; install the lower half of the MC-9 rear seat or simply keep an inflatable mattress and pillow with sheets on board. That way, I will have a sleeper space when I am out on the road; the first would be conveniently pre-installed, and the latter could be set up and broken down easily without taking up space.
The transit seats will be donated to a local museum, who will be receiving two Flxible Metro Bs that feature identical seats. That way, they will go to good use, and I don't have to hear about them taking up the garage!
-Fred
I look forward to the results, and if this weather ever goes away, I can get a lot more done. Just have to get there one step at a time!
-Fred
Read a little more closely; that's for SIX buses (3 Flx, 2 RTS, 1 not pictured)!
-F.
-F.
Also, where do the 30-foot Orions operate? I'm assuming these run on the loop routes.
Any suggestions and advice would be appreciated.
Jim D.
The 30 footers run on the Loop routes, you can go to White Plains Transcenter and look at everything. The Transcenter is next door to the Metro-North station.
For a day long excursion, try the following on a weekday.
Take 60 from Fordham and enjoy a 90 minute ride to White Plains, with the transfer, change for the 14 towards Peekskill. Thats 4 hours. Return on a Metro North from Peekskill (ask the operator where you can get off, it's 2-3 blocks west)
If you just went to see the cities you mentioned, do this:
Take Metro-North to Yonkers, take the #7 bus. it runs through Mount Vernon and ends at New Rochelle. Get off and walk to Boston Post Road and take the 60 to White Plains.
Look around at White Plains, lots of buses there, then take the #41 at 4:00, 4:20, 4:40, 5:00 or 5:20 PM (departing from the Transcenter terminal) and enjoy a fast ride back to East 241st st subway station on the #2 line in the Bronx. The #3 is also good, it runs on either the Major Deegan or Sprain Brook to Tuckahoe Road in Yonkers and continues to the #1/9 subway in the Bronx.
Fare is $1.75, transfer is an extra 25 cents and there is no surcharge on the 60/61/62 routes to/from the Bronx.
Jim D.
And don't forget, most bus lines towards WP stop running at 10 PM. But I know you won't be out that late anyway.
Also, while the Beeline terminal is not as cool as LIB's HTC IMO, it's still pretty cool.
Jim D.
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
A demo was sent, numbered 100, to run through the city prior to the TA's approval of the order. NYCDOT piggybacked the order and delivered units to some of the Queens private ops.
TA never orders a bus without prerunning it. When the RTS was sold from GMC to MCI/TMC in 1987 and production moved from Pontiac MI to Roswell NM, the TA required a Roswell RTS to be tested all over again, even though they had thousands of GMC RTSes already in service.
NJT ordered their 870s just befpore the frame-cracking fiasco in 1980. NJT suspended the order and hired a metallurgist to work with Grumman to redesign the rear sub-frame before delivery would be accepted in NJ. The NJT 870s were the first delivered with the changes to the frame.
Flx bouth the NYC 870s bak at a salvage price (less than $10K per unit, when NYC paid $104K new in 1979-80), These were rehabbed and sold to any other TA as used buses with a new bus warranty. They had NJT in mind as a customer, and NJT wound up with 620 of them. Both Flx and NJT figured because of the success of the 271 870s and 165 metros already in the fleet, they wouldn't be a problem in NJ. Of course, they lasted until the RTS replaced them (for the second time) in 1999-2000.
A test bus, #100 did indeed tour various TA routes. This bus was a bit different from the others. It had 2 X 2 soft seats and the DD 8V-71N engine. NYCTA kept this bus, renumbered it to #199 and it was assinged to QV and used for express service.
-F.
-Fred
You're probably right, but part of me also would prefer the 870 to be one of those in NYCTA specs. I have no idea how they chose to retain #236. My guess was that they looked for one that was in the best condition. Otherwise, I'd expect the TA to have held onto #201 or even PA1.
-Fred
I think we need to differentiate between the two times NYCT pulled the Grummans. The first time may have been before the last 200 were delivered. In any event, it was because of problems with the A-frame, which Grumman resolved to correct. The Grummans were fixed (supposedly) and returned to NYCT. That's why Grummans and RTS's ran together for a while. If memory serves me, David Gunn pulled the Grummans a second time, this time for good, after several of them had engine fires. That's when Flxible bought them back and resold them to NJT and others. The City later sued Flxible and/or Grumman and eventually received some compensation.
MetroB
MetroB
In 1984 a Ulmer Park Grumman Express bus caught fire on E. 57th St after finishing its run from Brooklyn and David Gunn who just became President of the TA on his 4th day on the job junked all the buses
My recollection is that none of the privates had any Grummans in service (or even delivered) at the first time the TA pulled all of its Grummans because of the frame problem. Moreover, after the repairs were made, the TA got all 837 of its Grummans back before any of the privates received theirs.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Please e-mail me the list. I'm very interested in that.
Ray
Now around '80 or '81 a bunch of TA TDH-5301 came to OA (Coliseum to be exact). At least one also went to KB. I remember when I spotted one one and did a triple-take. Of course after the early 80's - buses transferred between OA and TA depots regularly and of course a bit later '84 GMC RTS (and all later buses) came with "New York City Transit Authority" decals as well as all buses rehabbed from that point on.
In the mid-seventies, I started busfanning in Brooklyn and other parts of Queens to discover the '62 Bowls running out of the other two Queens depots, and FP as well. Strangely, those than ran out of QV, namely 2091-2174, had seats and bars attached to the seats that were shaped differently than lower-numbered '62 Bowls. The seats were sprawled rather than bucket-shaped, and the bars were square-edged rather than tubular.
The 1966 Flxibles- the 5600/5700 series- with the grey perimeter seating, was the predominate model out of FLU for several years. When QV opened in 1974, many of these buses were moved there with new roll signs installed reflecting its routes in the seventies' large-character ultracryptic font on a blue background (Q43 Jam-LIRR Sta). I would discover these buses on Staten Island. Stranger to me was my first ride previously unknown variation of the Flxible on FLA's B44: grey perimiter seats in the front, red directional seats in the back and a radio transmitter box on the front of the roof. Those 'spoilers', as I called them, were very common on non-A/C Fishbowls but looked extremely bizarre on a Flxible. These seemed to be numbered in the 5000/5100 series.
The 1964 Fishbowls in the 3000-series, with the grey front permiter and red back directional seats and 'convex' taillights, only ran in Queens out of JAM. (However, a Joe Testagrossa photos shows one on FLU's Q16 in 1971.) I also rode that model out of FP, ENY and SI. But it was VERY prominent on MaBSTOA's roster. Whenever I was in the Bronx or Manhattan during my HS years (which wasn't often, because I could credibly use my nickel school pass in Queens and Brooklyn to busfan, but not the Bronx or Manhattan), I saw dozens of them numbered in the 52-5400 and 63-6800-series. The few times I rode one, it seemed to have green (or repainted blue) perimeter seats. There were other models in the Bronx, but I hardly ever seemed to see any other model on Manhattan's MabSTOA routes. Midtown avenues were PACKED with them during rush hours. An occasional Batwing broke up the monotony.
The 1968 A/C Batwings closely adhered to the '64 Bowls, especially the taillights. They seemed to run on both MTA (usually FP, FLA and XT routes) and MaBSTOA routes. My first memory of seeing one was at Hugh J Grant Circle with the word 'Crosstown' in large print on the side. Must've been a BX36, which went around the Circle at the time. But these had the grey perimeter seats used in most MTA buses from 1966-70.
The 1969 Flxibles, in the 4100 (or is it 4600?) series seemed very popular in the Bronx AND Brooklyn. I rode them on FP, ENY and FA routes, and would see them around West Farms Square in quantities second to the un A/C Bowls referenced above. In their waning days, they were switched to Queens and Staten Island routes where they looked very out of place.
My all-time favorite bus, the 1972 Fishbowl (6100-6300 series, blue perimiter seats) ran out of FLU, FP, FLA, UP and SI. The MaBSTOA version, which I also saw around West Farms Square- close to two depots- were numbered in the 4700s through 4900s. It made the same, endearing window-rattling sound when hitting potholes that I'd hear first thing many mornings on the Q76.
When the 1975 Flxibles premiered, they were ordered for both companies. A fixture in all three Queens depots, they must've replaced many MaBSTOA '64 Bowls. Virtually any bus I rode in Manhattan or the Bronx from 1976 on was a '75 Flxible. Strange, but the 1973 Flxible (whose very uncomfortable blue seats prevailed on all '70s Flxible orders) was a constant presence in FLU, QV, seemingly all Brooklyn depots and the Manhattan TA routes as well. But I don't recall EVER seeing them on a MaBSTOA route.
Even though I was not born in the mid 70's (I was born in 1978)but Queens had GMC TDH-5301 #2000-2174. There are picutres from www.nycsubway.org's bus section that show a bunch of the lower 2000s in Queens around Jamaica and Kew Gardens. I think it was GMC TDH-5301 #2017 on the Q44VP (Q74 today).
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Having grown up in NE Queens in the sixties and seventies, I recall the MTA equipment vividly. The first bus I clearly remember was the 1962 Fishbowl, with the three vertical concave taillights and green seats that were perimeter in the front and directional in the back (the opposite of the TA's current hard seated RTS and Orions). This was probably the three-digit, 1000 and 2000/2100-series.
In the mid-seventies, I started busfanning in Brooklyn and other parts of Queens to discover the '62 Bowls running out of the other two Queens depots, and FP as well. Strangely, those than ran out of QV, namely 2091-2174, had seats and bars attached to the seats that were shaped differently than lower-numbered '62 Bowls. The seats were sprawled rather than bucket-shaped, and the bars were square-edged rather than tubular.
The 1000 and 2000 series TA fishbowls were the TDH-5301. I only rode a few of them, but I do remember them having all green seats (foward-facing in the rear) that were a bit different from the seating in the later fishbolws (and Flxibles)
The 1966 Flxibles- the 5600/5700 series- with the grey perimeter seating, was the predominate model out of FLU for several years. When QV opened in 1974, many of these buses were moved there with new roll signs installed reflecting its routes in the seventies' large-character ultracryptic font on a blue background (Q43 Jam-LIRR Sta). I would discover these buses on Staten Island. Stranger to me was my first ride previously unknown variation of the Flxible on FLA's B44: grey perimiter seats in the front, red directional seats in the back and a radio transmitter box on the front of the roof. Those 'spoilers', as I called them, were very common on non-A/C Fishbowls but looked extremely bizarre on a Flxible. These seemed to be numbered in the 5000/5100 series.
I grew up in the Bronx and I had a pretty good grasp of the Bronx depots (COL, KB and WF). I lived near to West Farms Square twice from birth to age 13. So in addition to seeing buses from all 3 Bx depots, I was also treated to buses from FLU on the Q44. I used to attend the elementary school on E. Tremont bet. Bryant and Vyse - so I used to get to see the Q44 buses laying over/turning arount on Bryant Ave. I remember all of the good stuff: The T6H-5305A (4400) when they were somewhat new, the 5600 Flxibles and of course my favorites... the T6H-5309A. There were a bunch of them around the square as KB had 4813-4832, 4860-4919, COL had 4833-4859 and FLU had 6200-6229 (I think!). I never did care too much for the 7100 Flxibles. I think FLU had something like 7185-7204. What's interesting also was I remember one of QV 7100 (I think it was 7167) having the engine door from the older Flxibles (4000-4201, 4600-4727)
The 1964 Fishbowls in the 3000-series, with the grey front permiter and red back directional seats and 'convex' taillights, only ran in Queens out of JAM. (However, a Joe Testagrossa photos shows one on FLU's Q16 in 1971.) I also rode that model out of FP, ENY and SI. But it was VERY prominent on MaBSTOA's roster. Whenever I was in the Bronx or Manhattan during my HS years (which wasn't often, because I could credibly use my nickel school pass in Queens and Brooklyn to busfan, but not the Bronx or Manhattan), I saw dozens of them numbered in the 52-5400 and 63-6800-series. The few times I rode one, it seemed to have green (or repainted blue) perimeter seats. There were other models in the Bronx, but I hardly ever seemed to see any other model on Manhattan's MabSTOA routes. Midtown avenues were PACKED with them during rush hours. An occasional Batwing broke up the monotony.
I don't know the years of all the TDH-5303 (they came along before I was born), but I remember them well, because MABSTOA had soooooo many of them. I figure the TA 5303s (3600-3950) was most similar to OA 5200-5255. Other than the difference in front section seat colors they were pretty much identical and they even started getting retired around the same time. OA also had 3300-3535 like this, but they were all gone by '79. OA's 6000 series 5303 were actually 6401-6900 (6701-6900 had Bus-O-Ramas). The AC equipped 5303s were TA 8001-8202, OA 8301-8780.
The 1968 A/C Batwings closely adhered to the '64 Bowls, especially the taillights. They seemed to run on both MTA (usually FP, FLA and XT routes) and MaBSTOA routes. My first memory of seeing one was at Hugh J Grant Circle with the word 'Crosstown' in large print on the side. Must've been a BX36, which went around the Circle at the time. But these had the grey perimeter seats used in most MTA buses from 1966-70.
I'm not sure here. My understanding was that the '68 buses were T6H-5305A (8800/8900 series). Other then a few strays OA didn't really use these buses.
The 1969 Flxibles, in the 4100 (or is it 4600?) series seemed very popular in the Bronx AND Brooklyn. I rode them on FP, ENY and FA routes, and would see them around West Farms Square in quantities second to the un A/C Bowls referenced above. In their waning days, they were switched to Queens and Staten Island routes where they looked very out of place.
The TA had 4000-4201 and OA had 4600-4727. I remember the TA buses being assinged to FI, FP and ENY. At OA WF had 4600-4663, COL had 4664-4720 and HUD had 4721-4727.
My all-time favorite bus, the 1972 Fishbowl (6100-6300 series, blue perimiter seats) ran out of FLU, FP, FLA, UP and SI. The MaBSTOA version, which I also saw around West Farms Square- close to two depots- were numbered in the 4700s through 4900s. It made the same, endearing window-rattling sound when hitting potholes that I'd hear first thing many mornings on the Q76.
I agree! They (T6H-5309A/10A) were my favorite too. TA had 6000-63??, 6901-6956 and OA had 4800-4919, 4500-4505
When the 1975 Flxibles premiered, they were ordered for both companies. A fixture in all three Queens depots, they must've replaced many MaBSTOA '64 Bowls. Virtually any bus I rode in Manhattan or the Bronx from 1976 on was a '75 Flxible. Strange, but the 1973 Flxible (whose very uncomfortable blue seats prevailed on all '70s Flxible orders) was a constant presence in FLU, QV, seemingly all Brooklyn depots and the Manhattan TA routes as well. But I don't recall EVER seeing them on a MaBSTOA route.
Now these buses (Flxible 53102-6-1 TA 7500-7659, OA 7700-7937) were easily my least favorite new-look buses. Remember the horizontal grab-bars they had when new??? At the time I wasn't too fond of Flxible new-lloks, but when the '77 buses (TA 9000-9159, OA 9160-9309) came along I really liked those. COL had 9160-9164 which was actually powered by the DD 8V-71N.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Sometimes I wish that I was about 10 years older so I could've remembered more of the new looks.
The 1000's started out at 5th Avenue (now Jackie Gleason). The 2000's started out at Flushing and Jamaica.
[I figure the TA 5303s (3600-3950) was most similar to OA 5200-5255... OA also had 3300-3535 like this, but they were all gone by '79.]
OA's 3301-3555 was from the same order as TA's 3601-3950. OA's 5201-5525 came in at about the same time as TA's first Flxibles, 5001-5165.
[My understanding was that the '68 buses were T6H-5305A (8800/8900 series). Other then a few strays OA didn't really use these buses.]
Only the TA received buses in the 88-8900's.
[Now these buses (Flxible 53102-6-1 TA 7500-7659, OA 7700-7937) were easily my least favorite new-look buses.]
This order was the first in which TA and OA spread the new buses out to almost every depot, rather than concentrating them within a few depots.
[Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Sometimes I wish that I was about 10 years older so I could've remembered more of the new looks.]
I was glad I was part of memory lane for the new looks as well as many old looks. Sure brings back great memories.
The 1961-62 GMCTDH5301's ran mostly out of Jamaica Depot. By the time I started riding the buses regularly from Laurelton to Martin Van Buren HS there weren't too many of them left. Funny that you should mention tail lamps because that's what I used to differentiate this fleet from the 1963 GMC's (3601-3950). Several of the 1962's, particularly buses 2107, 2111, 2117, 2151 and 2173, were retrofitted with the concave-style tail lights found on the '63s. On the other hand I recall ex-ENY bus 3714 with the older taillamps. How many people recall the fact that bus 2173 was the first to test the 2x1 seating that we are so used to seeing today.
My absolute faves were the 1966-67 5303AC's (8001-8202, 8301-8780). Unfortunately, in order to ride one I had to go to Manhattan or the Bronx. The 8000s that were assigned to Jamaica were transferred first to FP and then 126th. My favorite feature on these buses was the sound the engine made with the A/C on. Sort of a smooth hummmmmm. These were only found on these models. In fact NYCT museum bus 8466 still sounds like that to this day! The 5305A's were a little different sounding.
The 1969 Flxies, 4000-4202, or the "41ers" as I referred to them, DOMINATED the streets of Brooklyn and the 46-4700 ran in the Bronx. I called them 41ers because thats all I would see on the B22 and B56 along Jamaica Avenue. ENY had practically everything from 4100-4202 with a few 41ers at FP. Fifth Avenue (now JG) had 4000-4099.
The T6H5305A's DOMINATED, first in Jamaica, and then in QV. Jamaica had 4340-4391, and QV had 4392-4455. When Jamaica received over 100 6200s from FLU, UP and CAS, 4340-4392 went to QV. In addition, QV received 4321-4339 from Brooklyn Division. I recall 4324 with a rubber front bumper. The taillamps on these were the smaller concave lamps placed on the lower half of the engine door. However, a few of 43-4400s had the larger lamps placed on the upper half of the engine door (similar to Green Lines' 101-140). The "big lighters" as I used to call them were, 4331, 4338, 4340, 4382, 4413, 4419, 4421 and 4427. Who remembers bus 4300?
A slight correction on the 1972 T6H5309A's. The MaBSTOA half of that order were numbered 4800-4919.
The 1973 Flxibles were indeed on OA routes. 7300-7362 ran on the M104 all the time. The TA half of that order ran out of ENY, FP, XT, FLU and QV. I recall 7155-7174 at QV and 7175-7204 at FLU. Later, when XT (Crosstown Depot) closed, buses 7098-7154 were sent to Flushing.
I hated the 1975-76 Flxibles. I thought they looked ugly without the standee windows. FLA had 7500-7589, FLU had 7590-7599, JAM followed with 7600-7619, QV had 7635-7644, and 126th had 7645-7658. I think 7620-7634 were originally delivered to CAS. The 77-7900s were a mainstay in The Bronx, especially in the old West Farms Depot where they were ABUSED to say the very least.
"The 1968 A/C Batwings closely adhered to the '64 Bowls, especially the taillights. They seemed to run on both MTA (usually FP, FLA and XT routes) and MaBSTOA routes. My first memory of seeing one was at Hugh J Grant Circle with the word 'Crosstown' in large print on the side. Must've been a BX36, which went around the Circle at the time. But these had the grey perimeter seats used in most MTA buses from 1966-70."
The first A/C Batwings came out in 1966. TA got 8001-8202, and OA got 8301-87xx. (I think it was 8780, but I could be wrong.) If you saw one of those buses at Hugh J. Grant Circle, and its side route sign had the word "Crosstown" on it, it was likely on the Bx36. The side route sign would have read "Bx36 180th ST. CROSSTOWN". That would have been one of KB's buses, 8351-8375. Those buses had all green seats, though.....not gray. A Batwing with gray seats in that location would have been a TA bus on the Q44....but the side signs on those would have read "44 to JAMAICA" or "44 to BRONX".
I believe the highest numbered bus was 8790.
I'd forgotten about the '68 Batwings numbered in the 88-8900s- one of which was immortalized as a B9 in the closing credits of KOTTER. When first viewing the show in fall 1975, I was quite confused to see what appeared to be a 1970-73 Fishbowl, but with the wings. Such a bus had never appeared on any FP or ENY routes, which were the Brooklyn depots whose equipment that I'd frequented up till that time. (I went to HS in Jamaica in close proximity to ENY's B22 and 56, and FP's B53.)
It wasn't till early 1977 when I started riding in SW Brooklyn, and early '78 when I rode my first '68 Batwing on UP's B1. (Makes sense, since B9 ran out of UP at that time as well.) The grey seats, starred ceilings and foam-rubber A/C were identical to other Bowls of its generation. But I recall the taillights being different- sort of a cluster of three very small ones arranged vertically- a distinct change from than the small 'convex' ones used on Bowls since 1964. The three large 'convex' taillights that symbolized newer Bowls would premiere in 1970.
I seem to recall seeing the 1968 Batwings running on SI as well. By the time I started busfanning there in early '77, almost every conceivable TA model seemed to appear at the Ferry terminal. '62 Bowls, '66 Batwings and '69 Flxibles were about the only exceptions- and I did get one of the latter on the S107- now S48- on New Years' Day 1985. (At least I THINK it was 1985- maybe I was still hung over and hallucinating!)
The batwing destination signs on the TA buses gave destinations.
For example: 17 to Eastern Parkway.
While the OA buses simply had routings.
For example: 15 Jakson Heights, 104 Broadway, etc.
The other difference is that NYCTA buses had a parking lot heater connections. This was located on the buses left side bewteen the radiator filler door and the radiator grill. This is well labeled (N.Y.C.T.A. buses only)in the operating manual for these buses dated December 1, 1966.
Has anyone seen Creighton [Ctrabs74]? Someone told me that he was one of the many suicides at the Linc last Sunday.
AFA the Champions are concerned, they're either on the property or they're not. I've been getting mixed signals on this. I probably won't know until they start running them on the 92/133 or some of the Lower Bucks routes...
And there was much rejoycing...
YAY!
Monty Python influenced opening aside...
SEPTA's next batch of New Flyers will be arriving within the next month or two. There will be at 4 major differences between these buses and the first 300 diesels:
The transmission will be a ZF (most likely the Ecomat 5HP592) as opposed to the Allison B400R
A new supplier will provide an improved alternator (the previous supplier installed reportedly installed a poor quality alternator on the Neo artics, hence one cause for the poor performance of those buses)
A new curbside storage box will be located on the curbside wheelhouse, to prevent passengers from storing items on the wheelhouse
The buses will feature curb-side kneeling as opposed to the current front kneeler
118 buses will be delivered to SEPTA by the end of the summer. That, along with the official execution of the 20 Hybrid bus option (and the PCC-II cars for the 15/Girard), will mark the end of the non-wheelchair-accessible Neoplan 3000-3252 series.
More details at my SEPTA blog.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I hate those. ZF = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Let me guess where those new buses are going...Southern or some other far away city depot?
:( Farewell 3200, 3107, and all those awesomely fast DKs out there. (have a good rest 3000, you need it)
Why aren't the neo's accessable again? I remember 5 versions of them, which the wheelchair ramps all having a different configuation at the rear.
Well when you are running away thinking doesn't fall into it. That jackass will be caught sooner or later, the driver as well as some other people saw this fool and report what they saw to the cops. This is one of the few times when you wouldn't mind police brutality.
For those like me old enough to remember, a terrible incident on Metro's predecessor DC Transit in May 1968 led to the establishment of exact fare requirements on all major US transit systems. A driver was shot and killed during a robbery on a bus. The thief was attempting to steal the driver's change bank, which all drivers had to carry during those pre-exact fare days. In response DC Transit required passengers to deposit exact fares into a locked fare box, and drivers could no longer make change or carry any cash. Change was given in scrip redeemable at a specific office location.
I remember the days when drivers had to make change....and I also remember the days when it wasn't even considered a safety concern. I mean, who would rob a bus driver? Sadly, those days are long gone.
This next bit may be better suited to SubTalk, but since it ties in with the exact fare theme, I'll add it here. I also remember being very surprised when I went to take the subway in Philadelphia, in the early 1970s, and found that that system DID require exact fare. There was a booth there, with an employee inside, and I expected to give her a dollar and get change, but she told me that I needed exact fare. When I questioned her about the reason for exact fare in the subway, she indignantly replied "Have you ever seen a robbery in the subway?" I guess Philadelphia decided that the answer to robberies in the subway was exact fare, rather than protective booths. So I had to go back upstairs, find a store, and buy something to get change. Despite the continued existence of thugs today, you can still pay your fare with a $20 bill in the New York City subway.
Here's hoping that the WMATA driver will be okay, in every sense of the word.
-F.
-F.
-F.
I don't hear:
" Mommy mommy! Lets go to Bustalk! Then go to toys r us!"
Da Hui
-F.
Oh, and one other thing: While it may not seem fair, I support you Jeff 125%, even when it comes to students. It's a good thing that I am a bus driver, because if a student, no matter how they look, tells me that they lost their student MetroCard, I would say: 'Sad story indeed. (change in tone to sternness) I hope the next driver is more sympathetic.' And if they don't get off, on the radio I would get with supervision. I feel most of the bus drivers (or people here who drove buses at one time or another) would agree to some extent. Just my two cents.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
And taxi drivers have it even worse since they have to carry change. My girlfriend used to drive for Yellow Cab, and I feared for her life every time she went in to work. A local driver that I knew from Yellow later wound up having his head knocked in by a lead pipe, and apparently lost several teeth and some brain capacity. With the absence of a driver shield in most cities, especially DC, cabbies and bus drivers do not stand a chance against what may be out there.
-F.
Anyway, I still like to dream that bus driving(like any driving probably) is a neat job, but what about packing some mace or something?
Rumor has it that San Francisco Muni already has done this on their buses (anyone have pics or more info?). But from what I hear, most drivers leave the door open except late at night.
It's easy and tempting to exaggerate isolated incidents into "sad commentaries on our time." But let's be realistic. Bad things do happen, bad things always will happen, and bad things always have happened. People in general - bus drivers included - just need to use good sense and good judgement to avoid trouble as much as possible. Unfortunately, even that does not guarantee that nothing bad will happen, but such is life.
There is no foolproof, failsafe solution to stamp out all crime altogether. If you make something "foolproof," the idiots will get smarter. (them's words to live by) Remember, this WMATA incident happened while the driver was off the bus. I don't exactly see drivers locking themselves in their buses on breaks from now on...
I'm a bus driver, and I would sooner quit my job than I would spend my whole shift in a Plexiglas box. Plus, installing such boxes would be a great way to make the public think that crime is out of control. It isn't. Transit buses are in fact very safe places.
You say that a bus driver is a "sitting duck," but really, what job in any field isn't? There are crazy people everywhere. And crazy people will find crazy ways to do crazy things. We can't live our lives in fear. But we can be assertive, alert, and keep our smarts about us. Those are the best defenses out there.
That thingy has been the biggest question on my mind about NYC buses. Thanks for mentioning that a lot!
I'm mostly talking about victims rights too. Why always blame the victim.
When I used to take the trippers in Philly, a lot of the meaner bus drivers got some respect I think. Do something wrong. Doors open, engine turns off(unlike some TA's, you pretty much never see a bus with it's engine off there). There isn't too much upperhand for the non-drivers I always thought, being in the open or not.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
Some reason, I actually like these on buses, they look naked without them for some reason.
If there was any poetic justice, that fool would be hit and killed by a bus, or seriously injured, and he would have to pay for the bus repairs. That is just a stupid, stupid crime he did.
To be a little off topic, a person once killed another person, because that person wouldn't let the dumbass use their pen.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
-F.
Da Hui
Discontinue service on the following routes:
3, 9, 10, 11, 17, 18, 21, BxM4C, 32, 33, 34, 38, 39, 41, 45Q, 54, 62, 64, 65, 66, 70, 71, 77, 91, 92, Loops A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, T
Reduce weekday service on the following routes:
12, 30, 61
Reduce or Discontinue Saturday service on the following routes:
6, 12, 19, 26, 30, 63
Discontinue Sunday service on the following route:
55
All those attending will be given a chance to speak. Written comments may be mailed to:
Westchester County Dept. of Transportation
100 East First Street
Mount Vernon, New York 10550
Or Your written statements may be e-mailed to: Comments
Even with a fare hike, service is not being maintained. And people think the MTA is bad.
It appears to me that Westchester County is playing a game of chicken here. They're peeved that the state subsidizes a far higher percentage of MTA LI Bus's expenses than Bee Line's, so they are threatening these huge cuts to try and force the legislature to increase the Bee Line subsidy. That's why they are maintaining existing service until September and then planning far deeper cuts. They could have made smaller cuts now and spread the savings throughout the year. Make no mistake - these cuts are designed to get people outraged and to get the attention of the legislators and the governor's office.
Given the talk of Bee Line's possible inclusion in a future MTA Regional Bus operation, I suppose the funding equity issue would need to be rectified sooner or later. There's a political risk here, though - can the state bail out Westchester County, and then tell Mayor Bloomberg that they can't take over the Queens private companies? I'm not sure how Westchester's level of subsidy compare to NYC's.
Should be interesting to see how this plays out. Let's hope the Bee Line cuts (and other transit cuts) aren't too severe.
Jim D.
They won't get it, and they won't cut all of the routes either. Be sure, though, that almost every bus to rail route on the cut list is GONE.
Any input on this question is welcome.
-F.
Oddly enough, PA1717 was "re-retrofitted" with a 6V92TA engine in the mid-1990's. The others kept their 6V71's.
Mark
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!
PA1743 wasn't much slower with its 6V71. It was tuned up a little more than typical non-turbos though.
Mark
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
-F.
Basically, they fit in the same hole though, it's just a matter of changing motor mounts frm what mechanics have told me.
When you don't let turbos spool down, there's no motor oil in the bearing area to carry heat away and what residue remains will burn until it becomes coke (carbon). As that builds up, the turbo gets slower and produces less boost and power until it either becomes so sluggish that it must be replaced or seizes altogether. The 71s didn't see a turbo in widespread bus use until the 6V71TA and 6L71TA of the late 80s, when turbos were then commonplac3. Thus the 71s tended to last longer and run better than their 92 counterparts
On that note, The 6V71 has the same displacement as a Chrysler Hemi...426 cubic inches. So the next time someone rolls up to our restored Grumman 870 at the museum and asks, "That thing got a Hemi?", I can honestly say "YES!". Too bad it won't do the quarter mile....LOL.
Another factoid that adds luster to this thought is that Detroit Diesel is now a DaimlerChrysler company, so like the race-winning big block, it's technically a fellow Mopar engine! :)
-F.
-F.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
Detroit Diesel was wholly owned by GM until 1988.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-F.
I don't think the 6v71 has hemispherical heads... :)
-F.
Thanks alot i hope someone can really answer these PLEASE
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Please do your homework or enjoy useing PS2 instead of asking us about roll signs for the 6,774,334,567,839,939,313,442,100th time.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
1. New York Bus Service still operates GMDD Fishbowls during rush hours. Basically they are GMC Fishbowls but were made in Canada.
2. Don't know. I know that when they number them, they take stickers that look like numbers and stick them on the bus. (sarcasm intended)
3. They push the bus numer in on a keypad (like making a phome call) What they say: "Hello?" "Hi" "How's it going?" "Good, how about you?" "Good. How are the kids?" "They're fine, and yours?" "They're a handfull but I love them." "Yep..." "Yep..." "How about them Yanks?" "I love/hate those sons of bitches!" "Me too!" "Yep..." "Yep..." "Well I gotta go." "OK, talk to you later" "Bye." "Bye."
4. Most (All?) of the private companies still use roll signs on their older RTS's, Classics, and Fishbowls (am I missing anything else?)
Enjoy,
Jimmy :P
Read and enjoy:
A Work of Transit Fiction
METROPOLIS REGIONAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY
VEHICLE HISTORY 1980-PRESENT
In 1980, the Metropolis Transit Authority was one of the largest, and most modern systems in the USA. The oldest buses were 10 years old and the newest was 3 years old. The fleet roster was like this:
1] GM buses [Fishbowls]
A] 250 T6H5305a [1970]-commonly called the BATWING buses 7001-7250
B] 100 T6H5306a [1973] - 7301-7400
C] 100 T8H5306a[1973] - 7401-7500 - Assigned to Suburban garages
D] 275 T8H5307a[1975] - 9001-9275 - with double stream rear doors
E] 200 T6H5307a[1976-77] - 9501-9700 - last Fishbowls built in the US
Total GM Fishbowl - 925
2] Flxible Buses
A] 150 111-cd-061 [1972] - 8001-8150 - nicknamed “Westside Buses”
B] 200 111-cd-061 [1973] - 8201-8400 - nicknamed “Eastside Buses”
C] 200 53102-6-1 [1976] - 8501-8700
D] 280 53096-8-1 [1976] - 5001-5280 - 5001-5100 had high backed express seats and were assigned to express lines. 5101-5280 had bucket style soft seats
and assigned to local suburban lines.
E] 175 53102-6-1 [1977] 8701-8875 - no standee windows
F] 200 45096-6-1 [1977] 5501-5700 - assigned to suburban garages. 80 buses formed base fleet in Bay City division [Town 25 miles east of Metropolis]
Total Flxible - 1105 buses
3]AM General Buses
A] 425 40096-8A [1974] - 3001-3425
B] 500 40096-8A [1975] - 7601-7900 - city buses 4001-4200 -soft seat buses
Assigned to suburban garages
C] 310 40102-8-B [1977-78] 6001-6200 city buses with double stream rear doors, 4201-4310 high backed express seats, assigned to express lines.
Total AM General buses - 1235.
Total Metropolis Transit Authority fleet - 3265 buses.
The MTA prides itself on keeping its fleet updated, so when the 80’s arrived, the New Look dominance was starting to dwindle. Also the MTA wanted to start a logical way to number their bus fleet. So starting with the first ADB’s the numbering started at 2001.
That first order was a group of 310 Flxible 870’s. The buses was split into 3 groups. The order arrived in 1982-83.
First group was 2001-2150 [1982-40102 6v71] assigned to city garages.
The next group was 2501-2580 [1982-401028v71]- soft seaters assigned to suburban garages
The last group was 5701-5780 [1982-35096 6v71]- buses assigned to both city and suburban garages.
These buses displaced the 7000 series “Batwing” buses, and damaged buses from other series.
Later on in 1983, the Metro A’s [40102-6t] 2151-2250 arrived, the first with the 6v92 engines.
1985 brought 2 groups of buses. 2251-2500 Flxible Metro A’s [40102-6t] with 2451-2500 equipped with express seats. That pattern would continue until 1989 with the exception of the 1987 Flx’s. The other group was 300 MAN Articulated buses[6301-6600].
The 1973 GM’s and 1972 and 1973 Flxibles were replaced with these orders.
The increasing failures of the AM General fleet, prompted MRTA [new name for system, nicknamed METRO] to accelerate bus purchases, and delay retirements of older fleets. From 1987 on, bus purchases would concentrate on replacing the AM General fleet, then the rest of the new looks. Also a new policy stated that all buses are to be equipped with wheelchair lifts.
All of the Flxible buses delivered from 1987 to 1989 are 40102-6T with 6v92ta engines. .
The next group was the Metro B’s in 1987. Again 40102-6T’s arrived with the fleet number 2581-2750. No buses from this order had suburban seats.
1988 brought 2751-3000. Suburban seated buses were numbered 2951-3000.
The last group of Flxibles in the 80’s were numbered 3001-3250. 3201-3250 had suburban seats.
Flxible lost out to MCI on the next batch of buses to be delivered starting in 1990. MCI wanted the MRTA contract badly. Since MRTA hated the RTS, MCI decided to aggressively market its Classic buses. But all was not lost at Flxible, since MCI dod not make 35 foot classics, Flxible got the 3 year contract to replace the 5501-5700 45096’s.
In 1990, MCI Classic 40102 with 6v92TA 3501-3850 arrived. These buses had rear-door wheelchair lifts, which turned out to be a maintenance nightmare. 3801-3850 had suburban seats. Flxible delivered 3251-3300 [35102-6T]. They got rid of the last AM Generals with these orders, and the first of the 5500’s started to go.
In 1991, 3851-4150 Classics arrived. The WC lift was relocated to the front door. Flxible delivered 35102-6T 3301-3350, replacing more 5500 series new looks, and the other series of new look Flxibles, and GM fishbowls started to dwindle.
In 1992, 4151-4450 arrived, with Flxible contributing 100 Metro C buses 3351-3450.
The Metro C was the first with the squared-off back.
The 1993 Classics [4451-4750] brought the New Look era to a close in Metropolis. A summer-long subway construction project kept the remaining Fishbowls and New Look Flxibles on the roster until the end of summer. A handful of 5307A’s and 53102’s were unceremoniously driven to the scrap lot right before Labor Day.
PART TWO WILL BE POSTED TOMMORROW.
A Transit Fiction Story - METROPOLIS REGIONAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY
1993-PRESENT
After the retirement of the New Looks, Metro took a break and noticed that it was time to retire the early 80’s ADB’s. So Metro turned to Flxible for replacements, particularly with new laws like the Clean Air Act and ADA on the books.
In 1994 Metro ordered 600 Flxible Metro D/E buses with an option for 300 more. Unfortunately that option never came to fruition, and Metro was lucky to get all 600 of their buses before Flxible went belly up.
These buses came in two groups. 5001-5300 were the D’s and 5301-5600 were the E’s [but Metro had the E’s built with roof-mounted AC’s like the D’s]. These buses had Cummins M11 engines, the first time a non Detroit Diesel engine graced this property. The last 75 of each group had suburban seats [5226-5300, 5526-5600]. 5600 also had forward facing seats not unlike NJT Metro suburban, but 5600 had two doors like the rest of the fleet. All of the 870’s and Metro A’s were replaced by these buses. The 870’s and Metro A buses had no WC lifts. Now the MRTA fleet was 100% accessible.
Next to go were the MAN articulated. These buses were crapping out regularly so Metro turned to New Flyer for replacements. Metro got the DHF60 Galaxy buses numbered 6001-6300 in 1998-99. Then 100 MAN’s were rebuilt to back up the Flyers [6301-6400].
Metro turned to Orion to get the former Flxible option. Orion V 5701-6000 arrived 1999-2000. Then Metro decided to exercise the option for 100 more buses. They decided to equip these 100 buses with Suburban seats. These buses , which arrived AFTER the 5701-6000 buses were numbered 5601-5700. They started to replace the ‘87 and ‘88 Flxible Metro B’s, but with the booming ridership caused by the red-hot economy, those Metro B’s hung on quite a lot longer.
The Metro B’s [1987-88] eventually got replaced by two groups of buses. More DHF60’s from New Flyer [6501-6700] and more Orion V [7001-7200] arrived on 2000-2001.
Now the same problems that killed the AM Generals started on the MCI classics, especially the 3501-3850 series. So Metro decided to rebuild the 1989 Flxibles, and repowered them with DD series 50 engines. A similar rehab was done on the 35102’s as well. The rehab basically turned the B’s into D’s with the squared off rear common to Flxible Metro D’s and E’s.
What does the future hold for the MRTA? Well Metro ordered 100 D60LF artics to replace the rebuilt MAN buses, they will arrive this summer. And the replacements of the MCI’s will commence in 2005 with the arrival of the C40LF New Flyers to be numbered in the 8000 series. This is an order for 250 buses with an option for 500 more to be delivered in 2005, 2006, and 2007. By that time, virtually all of the MCI’s and some of the rebuilt B’s will be replaced by these buses.
Flxible:
1] 3001-3250 401026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] -1989 Metro B
2] 3251-3300 351026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] - 1990 Metro B
3] 3301-3350 351026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] - 1991 Metro B
4] 3351-3450 351026T 1992 Metro C with DDEC series 50
5]5001-5300 40102 6C 1994 Metro D with Cummins M11
6] 5301-5600 40102 6C 1995 Metro E with Cummins M11
Total Flxible -1050 buses
MCI Classic:
3501-3850 40102T [6v92TA] 200 left in service due to mechanical difficulties./1990
3851-4150 40102T [6v92TA]/1991
4151-4450 40102T [6v92TA]/1992
4451-4750 40102T [6v92TA]/1993- last buses built with this engine.
Total MCI Classic - 1100 buses
New Flyer:
1] 6001-6300 DHF60 Galaxy [DDEC series 50] - 6001-6140 built 1998. 6141-6300 built in 1999
2] 6501-6700 DHF60 Galaxy [DDEC series 50] - built 2000
Total New Flyer- 500 buses
MAN:
6301-6400 [rebuilt 1998] 70 left in service, used mostly for rush hour trippers
Orion: All Orions have DDEC series 50 engines
1] Orion V - 5701-6000 /5701-5830 built 1999. 5831-6000 built 2000
2] Orion V - 5601-5700 /built 2000, all buses have suburban seats
2] Orion V - 7001-7200 built 2001 7200 is CNG prototype
Total Orion: 600 buses
Total Metropolis Regional Transit Authority Fleet:
Flxible: 1050
MCI Classic: 1100
New Flyer Artic: 500
MAN artic: 70
Orion V: 600
Total MRTA fleet: 3320 buses.
all models are TC40102A.
I will correct it in my document.
www.freewebs.com/islandtransit
A New Flyer D60HF has 64 seats (more or less) now on a particular day on the M14 the bus was more crowded then usual, now there were 66 people on the bus but no one was standing, who are the other 2 people?
66 is a baby sitting on someone's lap maybe?
Or if this is the 2AM weekend Circuit at UMD, replace baby with drunk college hottie:-)
Da Hui
R.I.P to the Mr. Lazare, the deaf mute killed in an attempted robbery while waiting for the B15 bus at the corner of Rockaway and Hegeman Aves early Friday morning.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
In the "Manhattan Buses" photo section of this site, there is a WMATA bus pictured in service in Manhattan in March 1981, so I assume the WMATA buses came in the first time the Grummans went out of service.
The WMATA buses came to NYC in '81. They were assigned to Staten Islands depots for TA. At OA they were assigned to AMS and FFS.
When the TA (foolishly, but what can you expect from NYCTA) removed them for good... they had sent a bunch of GMC 5303AC, 5305A and 5309A/10A to be rebuilt by Blitz. During this time the TA had also leased a bunch of MC-8 from Greyhound for use on Staten Island express routes.
MetroB
MetroB
JD
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The New Flyer articulated buses which are currently being delivered are diesel. All of the city's MCI express coaches are also diesel, and I believe the latest batch of those came in 2002. The last diesel 40' buses the city received were 1999 models, Orion V and Nova RTS, and there are no diesel 40' buses currently on order.
However the bus had power climbing hills, I wouldn't say it had a high top speed. I'd say its adequate enough to operate our downtown routes where speed is not much of an issue.
Wonder where 1043 went off to now?
From what I have seen at the CUTA Trans Expo back in October, the Orion diesel demonstrator I saw had a DDC Series 50 w/Allison B400R. It was probably one of the states demos as it had a New York license plate, that or they used it to drive it up from Oriskany.
Allen Dicion
go.to/ttc1001
I assume that the Flyer artics low floor? When was the last delivery of high floor D60HF artics?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
27 = exclusive artic route
MetroB
Did they still keep the paintjob?
Neoplan DKs....going on 18 on one of the toughest SEPTA bus routes, the 23...and many of them are very solid, especially for suffering lack of maintainance lately and staying at Midvale.
Yes! I did a Google and found a Trevor Logan photo. Yep, that's what I saw.
Here's one of my more recent works, called Citygo. I actually drew one of their NABIs in gif format, but I'm having problems saving the file. The roster, sorted by model year:
3000-3109 (110)
2003 NABI 40LFW-CNG, 40x102
CNG Detroit Diesel Series 50G + Allison B500R
7290-7379 (45)
2002 New Flyer D60LF, 60x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B500R
7245-7289 (45)
2001 New Flyer D60LF, 60x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B500R
7200-7244 (45)
2000 New Flyer D60LF, 60x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B500R
1400-1555 (156)
1999 NABI 416.151, 40x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B400R
6904-6994 (91)
1998 NABI 416.151, 40x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B400R
6800-6903 (104)
1997 NABI 416.151, 40x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B400R
6600-6708 (109)
1995 NovaBUS RTS T80 206, 40x102
Detroit Diesel Series 50 + Allison B400R
1992... the year of alternate fuel comparisons:
6401-6406 (6)
1992 TMC RTS T80 206, 40x102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA + Allison HT748
6491-6494 (4)
1992 TMC RTS T80 206, 40x102
Methanol Detroit Diesel 6V92TA + Allison HT748
6501-6506 (6)
1992 Bus Industries Orion 05.501, 40x102
Cummins L10 + Voith D863.3
6591-6594 (4)
1992 Bus Industries Orion 05.501, 40x102
CNG Cummins L10G + Voith D863.3
1295-1384 (90 - 71 active)
1989 MCI TC40102A Classic, 40x102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA + Allison HT748
1200-1294 (95 - 64 active)
1988 MCI TC40102A Classic, 40x102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA + Allison HT748
1000-1134 (135 - 30 rebuilds active)
1984 Flyer D902, 40x102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA + Allison HT748
That's 935 active buses. Plus, my roster includes the following batches which have been fully retired:
6301-6333: 1991 Gillig Phantom 35x96
6201-6241: 1986 BIA/Orion 01.506
7100-7109: 1986 Crown-Ikarus 286.143
7000-7049: 1984 Crown-Ikarus 286.139
6100-6138: 1981 Grumman-Flxible 870 40102-8-1
6000-6099: 1980 Grumman-Flxible 870 40102-8-1
5500-5711: 1976 AM General 10240A-8
5077-5116: 1976 GMC T8H-5307A
5050-5076: 1972 Flxible 111-CC-D061
5000-5026: 1972 GMC T8H-5307A
4500-4599: 1965 GMC TDH-5303 (4538 in historic fleet)
4300-4399: 1963 GMC TDH-5303
4100-4199: 1961 GMC TDH-5301
Plenty more where that came from...
LOL
I wonder if yellow will be the new livery for it's entire fleet.
Oh, wait, I was thinking of the FedEx paint scheme.
Mike
:)
Gun Hill Depot- 5289,5251,5386
Kingsbridge- 5483
West Farms- 9127
Mother Clara Hale- 252,6007
Quill- 8613
Manhattanville- 5190,9610
126th street- 8225,8501
100th street- 5564,5579
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
B44 Nova #5122
B65 C40LF #837
I'll venture out tomorrow :(
On Friday, me, Chris G(rideonrules), and Ray (aznboy) went up to see SEPTA for the day (This btw is my first visit to SEPTA). It began when Garnier drove to the Wilmington SEPTA station and we decided to kill time waiting for our R2 commuter rail by watching DART buses lay over and pick up passengers. It was cold as hell but we did some interesting sights, especially the fake me out trolley run by DART on the Wilmington trolley.
So here is the sequence of our trips:
R2
Wilmington-Market East
We rode a two car train of Silverliner IVs. They are very fast but the ride quality doesn't stand up to push pull cars IMO.
Market Frankford Line
8th-13th
Man these MFL cars are ugly in person....And its missing the BING BONG! door closing chime!
We then headed towards the subway surface boarding platform and saw 3 trolleys back to back to back on the platform. Man the subway surface has mad service!
10
Juniper-Overbrook
I immedieately fell in love with the subway surface lines. It felt more like a bus on rails than a light rail system. I was thrilled by the speeds that these things travel at.
10
Overbrook-33rd
Before we rode the 10 back to the subway, we saw an old Neoplan lined up with the trolleys and thought it made a nice pic too:
11
33rd-40th St Portal
At 33rd Street, Ray tried to crush a penny on the rails. Unfortunately it didn't crush the penny all that well. Must be some really good shock absorbers on the cars or they are just really light.
34
40th St Portal-Juniper-City Hall
Saw a few hotties from the University of Pennsylvania get on the car...
MFL
Juniper-City Hall-13th
Finally got ourselves the railfan window on the AdTranz cars. This one was quite devoid of scratchitti.
Broad Street Subway
City Hall-Pattison
These cars are even uglier than the MFL cars. Also, City Hall station was really raggedy and is in need of a rehab job.
BSS
Pattison-Walnut Locust
Ray and I got trapped in the car because apparently they have to shut the train down to reverse the operating direction of the trains, according to Garnier. And knowing that the BSS has shitty headways, we thought we were gonna leave Garnier behind.
BBS EXP
Walnut-Fern Rock
The express run was quite fast, but overall the BSS bored me. What did interest me was the old BSS cars sitting at the rail yard at Fern Rock. Are these museum cars or are they gonne be scrapped?
BSS EXP
Fern Rock-Girard
Spur
Girard-8th-Market
While waiting for the spur train at Girard, Garnier was quite eager to spend a night in jail just so he could relieve himself on the tracks:-)
NABI 416, route 47
8th-Market-South Street
We were supposed to walk nearly a mile in 20F degree weather to our lunch spot, some famous cheesesteak place called Jim's on South Street. But then we hopped on the NABI to cut down some of the walking time. This NABI was by far the best NABI I rode. It was in better shape than MTA Maryland's or WMATA's artics. Also I thought the Clever Devices system was pretty cool here. It scrolled useful info like date, time, route, destination, and places of interest.
Neoplan AN440DK, route 57
South Street-Market Street
After lunch we boarded an old 1988 Neo on the 57, and I was very impressed with the quality of the bus, seeing how old it is. Also, the 6V92/Allison HT combo had the most intoxicating whine I've ever heard from a 6V92!
When we got off the bus, we saw some old British double decker tour buses parked near the MFL station.
Guess where I'm standing:-)
MFL
Market-Frankford
The el portion of the MFL was really cool, and it rang so much like NYC. We also spotted the old ETB wires near Frankford Terminal. Also, Frankford Terminal was a busfan's heaven with buses everywhere and a depot right across the street! w00000t! There were also a hella lotta school trippers pulling into Frankford with lots of white private school girls in school girl outfits (*COUGH* tristan *COUGH*).
Neoplan AN440EI, route 5
Frankford-Market
Once again, the old Neoplans were holding up nicely and was quite fast too.
New Flyer DE40LF hybrid, route 17
Market-12th
We saw the hybrid just before we reached Market St on the 5, and we decided to hop off the 5 to catch it. The 5 stopped way down the street from the 17 but luckily it came down our way. After riding the hybrid, it seems to be quite peppy and had a good acceleration to it and had good power with a bus pretty loaded with passengers (nearly all the seats were full and a few standees)
After this we bus spotted around the center sity area and then walked to the Greyhound/NJT terminal where Garnier picked up some timetables and then we walked to SEPTA HQ where we looked around and walked inside the PCC car on display in HQ.
After this we spent some more time bus spotting and then walked back to Market East to board an R2 back to Wilmington.
More can be found at http://photos.transitgallery.com/DCtransit
...And you though NJT had enough MCIs for everyone ;-)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Chuck Greene
I am, however, surprised you didn't ride one of the hybrid buses. Those buses are probably the best in the whole fleet.
Who says we didnt?
New Flyer DE40LF hybrid, route 17
Market-12th
We saw the hybrid just before we reached Market St on the 5, and we decided to hop off the 5 to catch it. The 5 stopped way down the street from the 17 but luckily it came down our way. After riding the hybrid, it seems to be quite peppy and had a good acceleration to it and had good power with a bus pretty loaded with passengers (nearly all the seats were full and a few standees)
I think its amazing how out-of towners love SEPTA, while the natives hate it. Maybe we natives really do not appreciate what we have.
IMHO the MFSE M4 cars look a lot better than the R142's, in fact, I rather ride a M4, however they really need a door chime.
You got to give SEPTA credit for keeping up the bus fleet. Sometimes they don't look it, but when you can keep a 15 year old bus running and looking relatively good, then you must be doing something right, even if people do not see it.
Let's face it, the BSS line really sucks. The only thing going for it is the speedy express run. This line cries for some kind of extension to bring it out in the open.
You got almost every type of bus in the Philly area on film except the RTS. NJT runs them into town everyday. If you noticed, they sound a lot different than the usual RTS buses, they are one of the few fleets with Cummins engines [most RTS uses Detroit Diesel engines]. Also you probably didn't catch an Eldorado, or a cutaway.
Those "white private school girls in school girl outfits " are actually CATHOLIC SCHOOL GIRLS. Don't mess with them, they tend to be real toughettes. They have to be, they have to fight off the attentions of pornographic CATHOLIC SCHOOL BOYS. I should know, I was once one of them.
Next time you could take a round trip on NJT. It's easy, just get on any NJT bus on Market St, ride to Camden's Walter Rand Transportation Center [PATCO Broadway Station], then jump on PATCO for the ride back. Or do this loop in reverse. Total cost is 2.35 round trip.
As I said in an earlier post, come on up for the diesel LRT ride on the River Line in March or April.
Either that, or since visiters don't have to deal with SEPTA's alleged inadaquacies and depend on the service for commuting purposes.
Either way, I admit to being one of those carpetbaggers who loves riding SEPTA's multimodal system of trains, subways, buses and trolleys, as well as exploring different parts of Philly and the surrounding area!
Sounds like the same perspective I have of the WMATA bus system. I haven't had too many problems down there when I've been to DC, but I guess my good experiences aren't a true picture of the entire system (as our DC bus-talkers can probably attest to).
On the flip side, however, I was very unimpressed with the MBTA, and that tends to be the prevailing opinion in Boston.
Those "white private school girls in school girl outfits " are actually CATHOLIC SCHOOL GIRLS. Don't mess with them, they tend to be real toughettes. They have to be, they have to fight off the attentions of pornographic CATHOLIC SCHOOL BOYS. I should know, I was once one of them.
Might you happen to be referring to the girls at St. Maria Goretti down in South Philly who beat down an flasher last year? (Side note: There's no truth to the rumor that they'll be playing for the Iggles next season; however, they might be an improvement over the tackling impared idiots on this year's squad.)
Could you tell me what these two sounds are (with as much detail as you know)?
Click
Thanks a bunch!
MetroB
And it shall be yours.
And it shall be your Squishy.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
4)They give you a damn good reason to ride WMATA.
4)It is good for WMATA ;-)
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The Bus was never intended to replace Metrobus.
Michael
Washington, DC
Michael
Washington, DC
Whoa, hold it there. Ride On was NEVER intended to MetroBus, it is intended to complement their service and relieve some of their routes. 80% of Ride On routes serve places that WMATA wouldnt even dare think of touching. However, PG The Bus, provides DIRECT competition for WMATA, having routes that directly overlap and follow exact WMATA routes. Also with their terminals being one block ahead of WMATA's terminal for that particular route, so PG The Bus can jump ahead of a scheduled WMATA bus to follow the same route and steal WMATA's passengers. Not to mention the 75 cent fare and all.
THE BUS has a LONG WAY to go before it even gets close to even Baltimore MTA. It was formed poorly, its intended purpose isn't being met in more ways than one and even though we have TRIM, that is no reason why THE BUS is the way it is.
THE BUS NEEDS MAJOR HELP IN GETTING A REPUTABLE IMAGE IN THE TRANSIT WORLD AND RIGHT NOW IT ISN'T EVEN CLOSE YET. It was simply poorly planned and poorly run. There are so many niches for routes in PG that they haven't even discovered yet, it is a shame and routes, even the ones they have now that can be revised could get more passengers without stealing WMATA's. Ride On, DASH, CUE, Corridor Transit and even ART has but THE BUS has yet to.
0:-)
X17, X19, X22, X23, X24
S55, S56, S74, S84, S78 (split with Yukon)
X1-#2711-MCI
Da Hui
This situation changed in 1989 when computer manufacturer Hewlett-Bell decided to take advantage of the power from the dam and construct a massive plant on a farm site just outside town. Burlington Northern built a large yard to service the plant, and now other manufacturers including HAL and Texas-Packard have been enticed to open similar plants in the area. With this burgeoning growth little CCT with it's old and worn out buses just would not do. In 1990 the little transit provider was merged with it's neighbors Electric Town Transit and Okanogan County Ride-On to create the Coulee City Area Transit Authority.
Immediately the new TA began looking to improve their system, and took a clue from the two biggest TA's in their region, Seattle's KC Metro just across the Cascades and Portland's TriMet to their south. They realized the massive amount of power that lay just to their north, and incorporated it wherever possible, creating an amalgamation of the ETB network in Seattle and the LRT network in Portland. Theirs was one of the first TAs in the 1990s to enact electrification on a large scale, both Coulee City and Electric Town have transit malls with 5 and 3 LRT lines respectively, as well as another running the 10 miles between the cities. Both cities have their own ETB networks, consisting of 30 and 25 lines, respectively, with a set of non-revenue wires down State Route 174 to facilitate intercity transfers. This extreme electrification has had another side effect, the grades in Electric Town have become mere non-issues, 10 percent grades that used to tax even the biggest diesel are now easily scaled by their AG300Ts.
Of course not everything can be rail or electric, and CCATA realizes that, they have an extensive diesel suburban network encompassing the area that used to be served by Okanogan County Ride-On, which include service to the plants from directions away from the two cities by a fleet of MCI D4000s and D4500s as well as a few new D60LF suburban buses. Inter-town service by old RTS IIs, Flx Metro-B Suburban models and MCI Classic suburban seaters. However these are coming up for replacement both by DE40LFs and some new 'interurban' ETB routes, in an attempt to have as much of their fleet electrically powered as is possible. Included in this interurban ETB project will be the world first ETB Cruiser, the so-called E4500, produced especially for the project by MCI. Finally, a new rail project promises to link Wenatchee, some 75 miles away on the BN east-west main with the new Coulee City Depot. CCATA will become the first US operator of an upgraded, FRA compatible, Bombardier Talent. Future extensions of the Talent line, named Coulee City Express, would obviate the need for the D4000s, already they will be removed from the CC-Wenatchee run, but the Electric Town run will retain it's D4500s, at least until CCE reaches that city as well. There is talk of electrifying the line to Coulee City on the BN line, but that'd also require the reelectrification of the Cascades line, as well as possibly the line to Spokane from Wenatchee, but Washington State is investigating giving BN aid to accomplish this.
Today the Twin Cities of Coulee City and Electric Town are slowly growing toward each other, despite almost heroic efforts of their zoning commissions to limit building to the center of downtown. Coulee City wound up with 2 plants on their side, while Electric Town got the other. All three plants have LRT lines leading directly to them, as well as busways for those not lucky enough to live on the city-side of the plant. The system is heavily utilized by the two cities, mostly owing to it's superb headways and hours of operation, 5 minute headways on all routes passing through downtown between 6am and 9pm. They use a POP system with ride free zones through the transit malls in the center of both cities, suburban riders face a zone fare collected by the rider, but other possibilities are being explored.
Really the only reason their system has been able to expand with the rapidity it did was because of a General Manager who was able to slash beaurocratic nonsense and get contractors to work on projects, as well as benefactors in both the Washington State Legislature and the US Congress, who were able to acquire capital funding for their myriad projects. As such CCATA now has one of the youngest fleets in the US, and at some 800 buses, is certainly among the biggest TA to have come into being in the past 10 years.
Anyway, on with the roster:
1-50 (50) *1996*
Siemens SD660A low floor LRVs. Piggybacked on the order from TriMet, for use on the first two starter LRV lines. Used on all heavy LRV routes, mostly those centering around the 3 plants at rush hour. Normally run in 2-3 car trains.
Equipped with Siemens AC drive and Duewag Trucks, with Knorr Brakes, Sutrak HVAC and Luminator destination signs. 2 and 24-50 equipped with Twin Vision LED destination signs.
100-175(75) *1999*
Skoda-Inekon Astra 10T 100% Low Floor LRVs. Serve on lighter duty Coulee City and Electric Town LRV routes, 25 more on order, with an option for 50 should the money for a new LRT line go through. Normally run solo, despite being equipped with couplers.
Equipped with Skoda IGBT with Synchronous VVF motors, automated announcements, LCD map displays.
1001-1101 (100) *1990-91*
New Flyer E40HF Low Floor ETBs. Serve mostly on the lighter runs at rush hour, the first ETBs CCATA ordered. They may be retired or rebuilt well before their anticipated lifetime of 20 years, owing to their quickly growing obsolescense.
Equipped with Kawasaki DC choppers and DC motors. Wheelchair lift at the center door. Retrofitting of Luminator LED destination signs and new seats underway, with roughly half of the fleet retrofitted.
1125-1140 (25) *1985*
Gillig Phantom 30 Foot
High Floor diesel bus. Now relegated to the role of collecting for the LRTs along low use cooridors. Largely despised by neighbors and riders alike, they're swiftly heading for the scrapper. Inherited from CCT.
Equipped with 6-V92TA/Allison HT748, paper rollsigns.
2001-2021 (20)*1989*
Flxible Metro-B Suburban 401026T
Used on the inter-town lines in the areas surrounding Coulee City and Electric Town. Last buses purchased by OCRO, inherited from them.
Equipped with Detroit Diesel Series 92 DDEC/ Voith D863.3 ADR, suburban seats, rear doors locked closed, no W/C lift.
2022-2023 (2) *1983*
Flyer D901
Used on the same routes as the Flxibles. Due for scrapping soon. Inherited from OCRO.
Equipped with a 6V92 and V730, paper rollsigns, transit seating.
2200-2250 (50) *1984*
Grumman 870
Used on shorter running suburban routes than the Flxs and Flyer.
Inherited from OCRO.
Equipped with a 6v92TA MUI and HTB-740, no W/C lift. Transit Seating.
2300-2320 (20) *1985*
Orion 1.508
Used on the same routes as the Grummans. Inherited from ETT (2300-2304) and OCRO (2305-2320).
Equipped with 6V92TA and ZF HP500, no W/C Lift, Transit Seating, Flipdot Dest Signs.
2500-2600 (50) *1988*
MCI Classic TC40102A.
Used in light suburban service with the Flxs and Flyers. Inherited from OCRO.
Equipped with 6v92s and HTB740s, W/C lift at the rear door, and transit seating.
3000-3050 (50) *1995*
New Flyer E40LF
Used on all ETB lines, purchased new by CCATA.
Equipped with Alstom GTO and AC motor. Luminator flip-dot sign. Due for a rebuild to the standards of the newest E40LFs, with Kiepe IGBTs and VVF Motors within to retain fleet compatibility and reduce overhead.
3151-3200 (50) *1998*
Van Hool AG300T
Used on all ETB lines, purchased new by CATA. Assembled in Tacoma from kits provided by Van Hool.
Equipped with Alstom GTO and AC Motor. Luminator LED sign. Due for a rebuild to the standards of the newest E40LFs, with Kiepe IGBTs and VVF Motors within to retain fleet compatibility and reduce overhead.
3201-3301 (100) *2002*
New Flyer E40LF
Found on all ETB lines. Purchased new by CCATA
Equipped with Kiepe IGBT and VVF AC motor. Kiepe retrievers and pnumatic poles. Twin Vision LED Signs.
4001-4026 (25) *2003*
New Flyer E60LF
Being delivered now, for use on the heaviest ETB lines. 75 to 125 more on order or option.
Equipped with Kiepe IGBT and VVF AC Motor. Also has Kiepe retrievers and pnumatic poles. Twin Vision LED Destination Signs.
4500-4515 (15) *1997*
MCI D4000 Cruiser
Used on the routes to Wenatchee, Spokane and elsewhere.
Equipped with a Cat C-12 engine and Allison B500 Transmission, also 4505-4515 have Jacobs engine brake. W/C Lift Equipped, Lavatory, TV's mounted above seats.
4530-4540 (10) *1998*
MCI D4500 Cruiser
Used on the routes to Wenatchee, Spokane and elsewhere.
Equipped with a Cat C-12 engine and Allison B500 Transmission, all have Jacobs engine brake. W/C Lift Equipped, Lavatory, TV's mounted above seats.
4550-4560 (10) *1998*
New Flyer D45HF Viking
Used on the routes to Wenatchee, Spokane and elsewhere.
Equipped with a DD60 engine and Allison B500 Transmission. W/C Lift Equipped, with a Lavatory.
5000-5200 (200) *2004*
New Flyer DE40LF
Ordered, for use in the suburbs replacing the inheirited buses and also replacing the Gillig Phantoms in the City, all while improving service in those areas.
Cummins ISL with EP-50 Hybrid-Electric Drive, W/C Lift. 5000-5050 have suburban seating; 5051-5101 have transit seating; 5102-5200 have Suburban Seating. Twin Vision destination signs.
5500-550 (50) *1994*
Orion 5.01
Ordered by CCATA to replace the oldest of the inheirited fleets. Found on the same runs as the Flxs and Orions. To vastly outlast them though.
Equipped with DD50/B400R, W/C Lift etc
6000-6050 (50) *2002*
New Flyer D60LF
For the heaviest of runs into the computer plants from the suburbs that the D4500s cannot handle.
Equipped with DDEC50/B500R; Suburban seating, luminator signs, two doors.
7000-7020 (20) *2004*
MCI E4500 Electric Cruiser
Ordered as part of the Interurban ETB program, for use in replacing some heavier suburban routes. If the project is successful, then over the next 10 years 100 or more similar to it could be ordered.
Equipped with Kiepe IGBT and VVF motors. No Lavatory or TVs, but it is equipped with a W/C Lift.
Oh well, that's my hypothetical TA, I think I set it up quite well, if I do say so myself. I'm sure the hardcore knuckle-dragging diesel nuts got a laugh out of engine and tranny choice. I'm also sure everyone got a good laugh out of me proposing that a boomtown in the west would choose to manage it's growth and funnel work into transit infrastructure, rather than just allowing suburban sprawl everywhere, propping up an inadequate bus service and letting everyone fight it out on the too-narrow roads.
Anyway, pick away at it all you want!
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
BIG AL
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Does anyone have a roster of NYC Buses== pre 1960
Thanks
steve
FDNY
FLEET MAKEUP
-Ride on features Orion Vs, VIs, and VIIs as well as Flx & Gillig
-THE BUS features ODVs, CAGVs and Chumpions
Advantage:Ride on
FLEET SIZE
-Ride On has 250+ buses
-THE BUS does an ODV count as 1/4 or 1/5 of a bus?
Advantage:Ride On
OVERALL SERVICE
-Ride On 7days a week many routes ending around after midnight
-THE BUS if we don't have all of our buses Mon-Fri before 8, then we will have to send out the donkey cart tow truck out to get it
Advantage:Ride On
SERVICE ON WEEKENDS
-Ride On yea, every 30 minutes or less
-THE BUS, "You can actually have buses on weekends-WOW!!!
Advantage:Ride On
BUS SCHEDULES
-Ride is blue and plain with the route number and where that route serves
-THE BUS has a picture of an ODV on it
Advantage:PUSH-They also have pics Gilligs, and SLFs on it
BUS STOPS
-Ride On blue saying route # and where the route goes.
-THE BUS a chumpion
Advantage:Ride On
INTERIOR AMBIANCE
-Ride On the sweet sound of a 6V92
-THE BUS the radio blasting 50 cents over a whimper of a CAGV
Advantage:Ride On
EMBARASSING MOMENTS
-Ride On the Helldorados
-THE BUS the chimp that escaped the LA Zoo only to return voluntarily because THE BUS chimps wanted her to join THE BUS.
Advantage:Ride On
MOST NOTABLE RIDER
-Ride On Oren
-THE BUS WES(reluctantly)
Advantage:THE BUS-Couldn't shut them out totally, of course I could have ;-)
STAFF
-Ride OnA good intelligent staff who knows what they doing, except for the purchase of the Helldorados
-THE BUS Chimps
Advantage:Ride On
FUTURE
-Ride On will win one or more transit excellence awards
-THE BUS riders are praying to god that WES runs THE BUS
Advantage:Ride On
There you have the unfair comparison. Of course if pitted against 99% of the US, Canadian, Mexican, Hungarian, Botswanian, Gilligan's Island transit systems, THE BUS will lose hands down.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Does that count?
LOL!
PAINT SCHEME
-Ride On some white with blue strips diagonally dropping down with black around the windows.
-THE BUS hey ours buses will look better by keeping our strips as is but changing the red/black to blue/yellow.
Advantage: Ride On-the red and black was a little better
FARE BOXES
-Ride On has REAL GFI fareboxes
-THE BUS will not figure out how the smarttrip fareboxes work, so here back come the trust me's.
Advantage:Ride On
First off, painting a bus is expensive, especially when you have multiple colors painted on. Also, since the industry is unstable on the private side, your bus will have a higher resale value if it is all-white with removable vinyl graphics and to some extent, any other solid color with removable graphics.
Mike
This one has chameleon paint, green to purple. And yes, thats an LCD monitor up there.
Honorable mention also goes to Montgomery County (MD) Ride-On. Often if a color scheme includes windows outlined in black it makes you think 80's, but this color scheme does not seem to age. There is actually a bit more than a little white areas, but the colors are very tastefully done and they look anything but plain.
Speaking of the old days. I miss the mixed bag of new-looks from PS in New Jersey too. It was fun seeing a true variety of buses in nearly every imagineable color. I can remember bus-spotting from drop-off area at PABT during the evening rush hour and just being amazed. It's amazing that my eyes and neck weren't hurting after watching all of those buses coming and going.
Of course, I have to put LYNX up there as every bus is a different color. Some have the ad wraps, but the non wrapped ones look cool. I saw an big yellow Orion V and it looked like a rolling banana as it was so bright.
-Fred
A Work of Transit Fiction
METROPOLIS REGIONAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY
VEHICLE HISTORY 1980-PRESENT
In 1980, the Metropolis Transit Authority was one of the largest, and most modern systems in the USA. The oldest buses were 10 years old and the newest was 3 years old. The fleet roster was like this:
1] GM buses [Fishbowls]
A] 250 T6H5305a [1970]-commonly called the BATWING buses 7001-7250
B] 100 T6H5306a [1973] - 7301-7400
C] 100 T8H5306a[1973] - 7401-7500 - Assigned to Suburban garages
D] 275 T8H5307a[1975] - 9001-9275 - with double stream rear doors
E] 200 T6H5307a[1976-77] - 9501-9700 - last Fishbowls built in the US
Total GM Fishbowl - 925
2] Flxible Buses
A] 150 111-cd-061 [1972] - 8001-8150 - nicknamed “Westside Buses”
B] 200 111-cd-061 [1973] - 8201-8400 - nicknamed “Eastside Buses”
C] 200 53102-6-1 [1976] - 8501-8700
D] 280 53096-8-1 [1976] - 5001-5280 - 5001-5100 had high backed express seats and were assigned to express lines. 5101-5280 had bucket style soft seats
and assigned to local suburban lines.
E] 175 53102-6-1 [1977] 8701-8875 - no standee windows
F] 200 45096-6-1 [1977] 5501-5700 - assigned to suburban garages. 80 buses formed base fleet in Bay City division [Town 25 miles east of Metropolis]
Total Flxible - 1105 buses
3]AM General Buses
A] 425 40096-8A [1974] - 3001-3425
B] 500 40096-8A [1975] - 7601-7900 - city buses 4001-4200 -soft seat buses
Assigned to suburban garages
C] 310 40102-8-B [1977-78] 6001-6200 city buses with double stream rear doors, 4201-4310 high backed express seats, assigned to express lines.
Total AM General buses - 1235.
Total Metropolis Transit Authority fleet - 3265 buses.
The MTA prides itself on keeping its fleet updated, so when the 80’s arrived, the New Look dominance was starting to dwindle. Also the MTA wanted to start a logical way to number their bus fleet. So starting with the first ADB’s the numbering started at 2001.
That first order was a group of 310 Flxible 870’s. The buses was split into 3 groups. The order arrived in 1982-83.
First group was 2001-2150 [1982-40102 6v71] assigned to city garages.
The next group was 2501-2580 [1982-401028v71]- soft seaters assigned to suburban garages
The last group was 5701-5780 [1982-35096 6v71]- buses assigned to both city and suburban garages.
These buses displaced the 7000 series “Batwing” buses, and damaged buses from other series.
Later on in 1983, the Metro A’s [40102-6t] 2151-2250 arrived, the first with the 6v92 engines.
1985 brought 2 groups of buses. 2251-2500 Flxible Metro A’s [40102-6t] with 2451-2500 equipped with express seats. That pattern would continue until 1989 with the exception of the 1987 Flx’s. The other group was 300 MAN Articulated buses[6301-6600].
The 1973 GM’s and 1972 and 1973 Flxibles were replaced with these orders.
The increasing failures of the AM General fleet, prompted MRTA [new name for system, nicknamed METRO] to accelerate bus purchases, and delay retirements of older fleets. From 1987 on, bus purchases would concentrate on replacing the AM General fleet, then the rest of the new looks. Also a new policy stated that all buses are to be equipped with wheelchair lifts.
All of the Flxible buses delivered from 1987 to 1989 are 40102-6T with 6v92ta engines. .
The next group was the Metro B’s in 1987. Again 40102-6T’s arrived with the fleet number 2581-2750. No buses from this order had suburban seats.
1988 brought 2751-3000. Suburban seated buses were numbered 2951-3000.
The last group of Flxibles in the 80’s [1989] were numbered 3001-3250. 3201-3250 had suburban seats.
Flxible lost out to MCI on the next batch of buses to be delivered starting in 1990. MCI wanted the MRTA contract badly. Since MRTA hated the RTS, MCI decided to aggressively market its Classic [TC40102A] buses. But all was not lost at Flxible, since MCI did not make 35 foot classics, Flxible got the 3 year contract to replace the 5501-5700 45096’s.
In 1990, MCI Classic TC40102A with 6v92TA 3501-3850 arrived. These buses had rear-door wheelchair lifts, which turned out to be a maintenance nightmare. 3801-3850 had suburban seats. Flexible delivered 3251-3300 [35102-6T]. They got rid of the last AM Generals with these orders, and the first of the 5500’s started to go.
In 1991, 3851-4150 Classics arrived. The WC lift was relocated to the front door. Flexible delivered 35102-6T 3301-3350, replacing more 5500 series new looks, and the other series of new look Flxibles, and GM fishbowls started to dwindle.
In 1992, 4151-4450 Classics arrived, with Flxible contributing 100 Metro C buses 3351-3450.
The Metro C was the first with the squared-off back.
The 1993 Classics [4451-4750] brought the New Look era to a close in Metropolis. A summer-long subway construction project kept the remaining Fishbowls and New Look Flxibles on the roster until the end of summer. A handful of 5307A’s and 53102’s were unceremoniously driven to the scrap lot right before Labor Day.
After the retirement of the New Looks, Metro took a break and noticed that it was time to retire the early 80’s ADB’s. So Metro turned to Flxible for replacements, particularly with new laws like the Clean Air Act and ADA on the books.
In 1994 Metro ordered 600 Flxible Metro D/E buses with an option for 300 more. Unfortunately that option never came to fruition, and Metro was lucky to get all 600 of their buses before Flxible went belly up.
These buses came in two groups. 5001-5300 were the D’s and 5301-5600 were the E’s [but Metro had the E’s built with roof-mounted AC’s like the D’s]. These buses had Cummins M11 engines, the first time a non Detroit Diesel engine graced this property. The last 75 of each group had suburban seats [5226-5300, 5526-5600]. 5600 also had forward facing seats not unlike NJT Metro suburban, but 5600 had two doors like the rest of the fleet. All of the 870’s and Metro A’s were replaced by these buses. The 870’s and Metro A buses had no WC lifts. Now the MRTA fleet was 100% accessible.
Next to go were the MAN articulated. These buses were crapping out regularly so Metro turned to New Flyer for replacements. Metro got the DHF60 Galaxy buses numbered 6001-6300 in 1998-99. Then 100 MAN’s were rebuilt to back up the Flyers [6301-6400].
Metro turned to Orion to get the former Flxible option. Orion V 5701-6000 arrived 1999-2000. Then Metro decided to exercise the option for 100 more buses. They decided to equip these 100 buses with Suburban seats. These buses , which arrived AFTER the 5701-6000 buses were numbered 5601-5700. They started to replace the ‘87 and ‘88 Flxible Metro B’s, but with the booming ridership caused by the red-hot economy, those Metro B’s hung on quite a lot longer.
The Metro B’s [1987-88] eventually got replaced by two groups of buses. More DHF60’s from New Flyer [6501-6700] and more Orion V [7001-7200] arrived on 2000-2001.
Now the same problems that killed the AM Generals started on the MCI classics, especially the 3501-3850 series. So Metro decided to rebuild the 1989 Flxibles, and repowered them with DD series 50 engines. A similar rehab was done on the 35102’s as well. The rehab basically turned the B’s into D’s with the squared off rear common to Flxible Metro D’s and E’s.
What does the future hold for the MRTA? Well Metro ordered 100 D60LF artics to replace the rebuilt MAN buses, they will arrive this summer [numbered 6701-6800]. And the replacements of the MCI’s will commence in 2005 with the arrival of the C40LF New Flyers to be numbered in the 8000 series. This is an order for 250 buses with an option for 500 more to be delivered in 2005, 2006, and 2007. By that time, virtually all of the MCI’s and some of the rebuilt B’s will be replaced by these buses.
The Current Fleet stands:
Flxible:
1] 3001-3250 401026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] -1989 Metro B
2] 3251-3300 351026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] - 1990 Metro B
3] 3301-3350 351026T [Rebuilt w/DDEC series 50] - 1991 Metro B
4] 3351-3450 351026T 1992 Metro C with DDEC series 50
5]5001-5300 40102 6C 1994 Metro D with Cummins M11
6] 5301-5600 40102 6C 1995 Metro E with Cummins M11
Total Flxible -1050 buses
MCI Classic:
3501-3850 /TC40102A [6v92TA] 200 left in service due to mechanical difficulties./1990. Rear door WC lifts.
3851-4150/ TC40102A[6v92TA]/1991 All buses from this order on has front door WC lifts.
4151-4450 /TC40102A [6v92TA]/1992
4451-4750/ TC40102A [6v92TA]/1993- last buses built with this engine.
Total MCI Classic - 1100 buses
New Flyer:
1] 6001-6300 DHF60 Galaxy [DDEC series 50] - 6001-6140 built 1998. 6141-6300 built in 1999
2] 6501-6700 DHF60 Galaxy [DDEC series 50] - built 2000
Total New Flyer- 500 buses
MAN:
6301-6400 [rebuilt 1998] 70 left in service, used mostly for rush hour trippers
Orion: All Orion buses have DDEC series 50 engines
1] Orion V - 5701-6000 /5701-5830 built 1999. 5831-6000 built 2000
2] Orion V - 5601-5700 /built 2000, all buses have suburban seats
2] Orion V - 7001-7200 built 2001 7200 is CNG prototype
Total Orion: 600 buses
Total Metropolis Regional Transit Authority Fleet:
Flxible: 1050
MCI Classic: 1100
New Flyer Artic: 500
MAN artic: 70
Orion V: 600
Total MRTA fleet: 3320 buses.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
X42 FDR Drive / 23rd Street Reroute
Implementation
April 2004
Presently Southbound via Broadway,east 17 st,Park Av South ,Broadway, Houston Street, FDR Drive
Northbound via FDR Drive,Houston St,Lafayette St ,Fourth Av,Park Av SOuth ,East 25 st,Madison Av
recommendations :
Southbound via Broadway East 23 st,FDR Drive
Northbound via FDR DRive, East 23,Madison Av
Item 2
Bus Schedule Changes on 74 Routes
Implementation April 2004
X26 to be eliminated due to restoration of IRT 1 and IRT 9 Service
Following Routes will be Articulated--
Bx19
M14
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
The X25 is almost cost-free because of its interlining with the X29. Moving it to Quill would only increase its costs (considerably) without any matching benefit to the riders.
I am requesting assistance in obtaining route desciptions for former Trans-Hudson / and Lafayette and Greenville Routes..I know there have been changes and additions,,since Coach USA Took over operations with these TWO carriers-- I need this info asap for a book I am writing,,FINALLY..!!
I will pay for this info as long as the material is accurate
Thank you ---Please contact me directly on my E-mail address
Sincerely
Steve
thanks again
steve
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/traffic/WABC_012304_njbusaccident2.html
Does anyone else have mmore details about the accident? In a case like this would another B/O cover the run of the bus that was in an accident? Thanks.
MetroB
MetroB
Had a week in Orlando where I was able to ride the I-Ride 'buses'. I use that term loosely since they are using the trolley buses. The one we used was supposed to run every 20 minutes, but usually there was at least a 30 minute wait. It was fun when the driver had the onboard stereo on and everyone started seeing the chorus to the Monkees, "I'm a Believer'. Also had a chance to ride LYNX routes 8 and 50. On a return trip to our hotel on the 50, we had a single door Gillig Suburban. Going there, we had the regular two door. The Gillig used on the 8 had partial soft seats and partial regular seats. They also had these cool screens inside that played commercials and showed where you were along the route.
Also rode many Disney RTS's and a couple of the Nova's. Saw a stray Flx Metro by Sea World with a sign that said, "Flex Pass" on the side. On International Drive, saw an RTS that was customized with I believe the words, "SPY" on the side. Not sure what that was as it was going through the parking lot of the Quality Inn there and I was on the I-Ride Trolley. I think I saw a Thomas SLF near Downtown Disney as well.
After a week there, headed to Port Canaveral to get our cruise. While waiting in line there, saw a company called, "Fun Bus". They used mainly Orion I's and then out of nowhere, saw a 35 foot Flx Metro B.
One of our stops was at Grand Cayman and there they used all these little mini buses. Most were made by Toyota that I saw with one being called a Toyota "Coaster". Interesting riding on the opposite sides of the street. We enjoyed our time there and took a cool excurion to a place called Stingray City. While there, we saw a hammerhead shark swim by. Our tour guide says that happens once every year that they come in so shallow.
In Cozumel, we transferred to a ferryboat that took us to Playa del Carmen. We then took a bus to Tulum and saw the Mayan Ruins. That was awesome to see. Unbelievable what is there. We had a bus made by the manufacturer, "MASA", I think. They were very nice buses kept up quite well. I saw several of the city buses that were white with green stripes. Those were in pretty bad shape. I guess that really is showing where the money is being invested, go for the tourists, forget those that have to earn a living.
Yesterday, while at Winter Park waiting for our train to come home, there was a two hour delay, so we hopped the LYNX 23, a 35 foot Orion V and rode it to the Florida Square Mall or something like that in Winter Park somewhere. I kept calling the Amtrak automated system to check on the status so I could gauge when we needed to catch the 23 back to the train station. Had another Orion V on the way back. Saw a 40 foot Orion V on the 9, I think it was, that came by the train station as well.
Finally, our train 92 came at 6:20, 2 hours late and arrived in DC about 3 1/2 hours late. I was just ready to get home at that point and now just waiting to see what tomorrow is like. I need to go to work after being out for two weeks so hopefully, I can at least catch the bus in. My wife was a wonderful trooper by letting me ride the buses. It saved us in Winter Park because we were already there 5 hours early due to having to debark the ship at 9AM in Port Canaveral and to have another 2 hours tacked on was really annoying. She was glad that I had the bus instincts to get us around both Orlando when we stayed there and in Winter Park where I called Lynx to find out which of the 3 buses that passed by there went to any kind of a mall to pass the time. We wore out the "Park Avenue" section of shops there and could only sit in the park for so long before we joked that the police would nab us for loitering.
Its nice to be back on Bus Talk but it sucks to be back in DC! We are seriously looking into moving to FL. I've heard the West Coast of FL is very nice as well and may have to look into that. Our cab driver said that if you can make it past the first couple of years there getting used to no defined seasons and humid summers, you'll be ok. I think I can live with that!
-F.
I'm going to be looking at several web sites in the next several days and see if anything interesting comes up job wise. Interviewing for them would be a hassle, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
-Fred
This aint the North Pole, this is Hempstead harbor on the north shore of Long Island!
I think a ferry route running Stamford-Glen Cove-LGA-Midtown-Pier 11 would do very well as long as they don't charge absurd fares like the old Glen Cove-Pier 11 ferry.
I'm glad you enjoyed your honeymoon and were able to experience all that you did.
Also, you're not the only one who may be moving south. My mom's job may be relocated to Tampa, and if she doesn't get offered a job, most available in her field are in Tampa. Jeff W lives in Clearwater, which I guess is Tampa. Heh, the 3 of us will start our own mini-sub/bus talk colony. lol. Then there'll be trolley talk as well, lol.
You should see if HART or w/e those bus companies in the area pay, or hell, Teco would be a fun job, lol.
You should see if HART or w/e those bus companies in the area pay, or hell, Teco would be a fun job, lol. You could be the Trevor Logan of the south!
Chuck Greene
If I have a honeymoon, I have no idea where I would want to go; there are so many places to see. Can anyone think of a romantic getaway that may have Flxibles still in service in the next few years?
-F.
Not to mention PCCs and the old-style trolley buses (I forget the manufacturers). The Flyer E700 ETBs and Boeing-Vertol LRVs were a year to 2 years away in 1975.
-F.
Glad y'all had a good time! Nicole had asked me if you were due to return today. Obviously doing the Honeymoon stuff must've been awesome, but I sure doing transit stuff (in a warm climate) while we were freezing here was fun too. I've thought about living somewhere with a warm climate, but my heart is seriously in the Northeast. I used to joke that the DC area is my southern-most point - but there is most definitely some truth to that.
As you may know by now the guys invaded SEPTA this past Friday, but I couldn't get away from work that day.
Anyways, welcome back!
I read about the "Asian Invasion" of SEPTA. Sounded like a fun trip, but no more cold weather fan trips!! LOL.
I never thought I would want to leave this area, too, but I guess being in a different stage of my life, I keep thinking of what to do to make a good living situation for us and our future family.
It was definitely fun to ride the buses in the warm weather. I wasn't going to ride any except in Disney as we needed those to get around, but Pam was all for it especially since it took us exactly where we needed to go and we didn't rent a car. She kept saying, "Boy, you're going to have so much to tell your friends when you get back!"
I should've asked, what was ridership like on the buses you took?
The 8 had hardly any riders. Only 5 or 6. That Gillig had the newer orange signs and TV's advertising something from Ron Popeil. LOL. The 50 did great, especially leaving the WDW transit center around 9PM. The 23 had the perfect sized bus, the 35 foot Orion V. It had about 10 people or so. We left to go back to the train station from across the street at the Publix and another lady got on there. We had 524 going there and 523 going back. The first one was aqua colored and 523 was reddish, I think. The Gilligs we rode were in the 600's and 900's I believe. At Fashion Sq, a bunch of people were waiting for the buses that stopped just outside of the mall.
BIG AL
Stay warm!
*Saw a stray Flx Metro by Sea World with a sign that said, "Flex Pass" on the side*
I see those buses from time to time. They look like they're falling apart. I wonder where they get them from.
Also, your mall was called Altamonte Square Mall, it was shaped like an X or somthing. Across the street from Cranes Roost Park, which is also the site of the mythical LRT system, which, is supposed to be built by now, was only paid for and will not be done for another 15 years probably. That's the center of Downtown Altamonte Springs(I got the website actually). Look for it in my "upcoming" BVE route.
And last thing:
Your cabbie is a MORON! 6 inches of snow on the ground doesn't make a season. Only people stuck in their air conditioned car wouldn't know. There's four seasons, and if you're sitting in winter park during any of them, you can see the difference. If you're not that observant, then there's still two clearly defined seasons. One named, "rainy season", and one is not. We don't get hard freezes in the summer.
How's the Disney Nova's anyway, i need to sneak onto one.
The 50 ran from Downtown Orlando to the Disney Transportation Center with stops near Sea World. It is mainly used on I-4. You can take that bus to the Disney Transportation Center and board the monorail or the Disney buses.
I could have sworn the mall was called Florida Square Mall. It was across the street from a Publix Supermarket in a strip mall with a few random stores. A Target was around the corner. The mall consisted of a Dillards, Burdines, Sears and JC Penny along with a food court and a bunch of smaller stores. The LYNX 23 went through some pretty nice neighborhoods and looped through the VA Hospital.
The LFS's aren't bad, but they feel really cheap compared to the RTS. Out of 13 Disney buses we rode, only 2 were LFS. The RTS's still hold it down pretty well there. I saw their maintenance facility from one of the roads we were on as well.
What confused me was there's a mall called Florida Mall. Supposed to be teh biggest in the region, but then you wouldn't be saying it was a small mall with some shops if that was the case. And the neighborhood is no Winter Park.
I have this thing where I like to collect mall maps of everywhere I go too, so I never have the issue. :) But you definately found either my #1 or #2 favorite mall in the area. It's the Fashion Square.
Anyways, welcome back, and hell, I'm enjoying the snow, it cancelled the first day of classes for the spring semester:-)
Anyone want to take a shot? You can include indies who contract with NJT if you like.
BOB
DeCamp:
- sold #22 Caldwell-Jersey City to Carefree
- sold #77 Morristown-New York to Community Coach
- dropped #145-146 Morrisotwn-Newark, picked up by NJT as #73 Livingston-Newark
- all other routes maintained
Trackless Transit:
- dead, all routes picked up by NJT (TT 64, 94, 96, and 144 became NJT 97, 93/94, 93/94, and 71 respectively)
The route 24/44 deal involved the following:
- ONE Bus (Orange-Newark-Elizabeth) formed to assume full ownership of #24 Orange-Newark-Elizabeth and #44 Tremont Avenue from NJT
- North Newark IBOA (#18) dissolved, Clinton Avenue IBOA (#16) dissolved; 16 and 18 replaced by increased service of NJT #13 Broad
- independent #12 Newark-Elizabeth acquired by ONE Bus
- Springfield Avenue IBOA dissolved, #25 run solely by NJT
- ONE Bus purchased by Coach USA
Somerset Bus:
- dead; all routes picked up by NJT (SS 15-111, 140/141, 143, 148, and 222 became NJT 112, 65/66, 113, 114/117, and 113 [143-222 merged] respectively)
South Orange Avenue IBOA still operates #31 with no competition, purchased by Coach USA
#22 Orange Street/William Street comes and goes when someone buys a few used buses and insurance.
NJT contract routes:
- #709 was a combination of an old Community Coach local (Bloomfield-Passaic) and the TNJ 44 Passaic-Lodi-Hackensack. Currently operated by Community.
- #306 The Loop - a downtown Newark shuttle operated by ONE Bus
Can you give a brief history of most of the Essex County Bus routes and mention and changes that took place? Thanks!
Do you have any old timetables of any NJT bus routes (80s early 90s)?
MetroB
MetroB
5742, 5747 (Sighted by me) and 5757 (Sighted by someone else) have been spotted in MJQ Service, now 5742 and probably the other two are at WF.
When is the TA gonna make up is burger-flippin' mind!???!?!!!!
Regards,
Trevor
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
The 1972 order of 5309A's were buses 6200-6349. There were no numbers in the 64 or 6500's, as these had been 5303's delivered in 1965 (6401-6900). Once the 1965 buses had been retired, there may have been some other A/C fishbowls renumbered into the 64 or 6500's, but I really don't remember what renumbering may have occurred.
The high numbered 6300's that you are referring to are actually 1970 T6H-5305A's renumbered from 4300-4499 to 6350-6444. The 5305A's that weren't renumbered into the 6300 series were either scrapped or sent to Blitz. QV basically had 6355-6441 (with a few exceptions here and there). On some buses you can see the original number scratched off of the rear window. In other cases, certain characteristics of buses were dead giveaways. For example, 6390 was easily recognizable as 4383 because it had the taillights of a 1963 or 1966 T6H-5303. I knew that 6365 was 4331, 6368 was 4338, 6406 was 4411, 6407 was 4412, and 6408 was 4413. I can go on, but thats for another post.
The lower numbered 6300's were indeed T6H-5309A's but they were assigned to Jamaica Depot. Jamaica Depot's fleet at the time included, 6171(which always ran on the Q5ALS. Bus 6171 would later become Blitz 5345), 6181, 6183-6185, 6200-6328, 6346, 6348-6349. They were part of, what was BY FAR, my favorite JA fleet. Also at JAM at the time were 8807-8816 and 8830-8833 (with wings) for the Q20X and Q24X (now X63 and X64), some ex-Brooklyn Division 36 and 3700's, and JAM original 3900's. Bus 6308 was at Jamaica Depot before it, and the rest of the fleet sadly went to Fifth Avenue (now JG) and JAM received those awful 7500's from FLA.
The 6500's to which you refer are 1972 T6H-5309A's that ran in MaBSTOA service for most of their lives, until they were shipped out to Brooklyn Division. Bus 6559 ran out of FP, if I'm not mistaken, which may explain why you saw it in Jamaica (the B53/Q54).
I hope this helps you out.
Mark
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
On the first generation fishbolws (4516/17, 5301/02) I remember the large (and protruding) combo brake/turn indicator at the top, then about 5 inches down was a smaller taillight. The about 5 inches below the taillight was a reflector about the same size. All of these lights were in some sort of plastic housing that made them appear to be flush-mounted.
The second generation (4518/19, 5303/04). I remember these really well because there were so many 5303s in NYC at both NYCTA and other companies/agencies. I always though the light setup in these were like the first gen, but without the plastic housing. This meant you could see that the lights (except the reflector, of course) protruded at least a couple of inches.
Early third generation buses (4521N/21A, 5305/5A, 5306/6A). Just imagine the setup from second gen, but with an additional large light added below the first one for what appeard to be a perfect fit between the top and smaller taillight. The large bottom light became the brake light and the top light served as the the turning indicator/hazards. The later third gen was probably the biggest change. The turning indicator and brake light became taillights which allowed GM to eliminate the tiny taillight below. Since small brake light was gone, this allowed the two large lights to be shifted down about 3 inches. A backup light was also added a few inches below. I think this setup carried over to early fourth gen. fishbowls as I used to see plenty of them like this.
Fourth gen. (4523N/23A, 5307N/07A, 5308N/08A, 5309A/10A). These had nearly the same setup as late third gen, but the lights did not protrude much at all.
Jim D.
Mark
BIG AL
B1-#8693-TMC
B6-#9178-NOVABUS
We officially have one artic that can haul ass. Possibly even run with a Bee-Line Neoplan AN460 (those things accelerate much faster than the average car).
I doubt that.
MetroB
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Thank you
Incognito
I agree the Neoplan artics with the DD S60 have blazing quick acceleration, but I'm certain that it couldn't touch a car at all (unless the car is in very bad shape). It's sort of like a car cannot keep up with a motorcycle.
I do know a guy (who's a B/O) who swears that he can keep up with me (in my car) with his bus. I accepted his challenge several years ago and I'm still waiting. I think the poor misguided soul has never taken a physics class:-).
#8692- F Shuttle
#9098 - B6
9341, 9325 B6
9335, PA4332 B64
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Da Hui
Da Hui
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
MetroB
BIG AL
MetroB
MetroB
MetroB
MetroB
As far as the Volvos are concerned, Volvo only produced 4 orders in the US. Parts are extremely difficult to come by - body panels either must come from Sweden or be custom fabricated. Things like wiring harnesses can be difficult to repair or diagnose when so few people are familiar with it. New Looks were still in production during O&B's ownership, making them easier to maintain, but like TNJ, the NJ private companies were losing serious money, and maintenance is usually the first place to cut back.
- DeCamp concentrated on northern Essex County to NYC.
- South Orange Ave Bus drove TNJ off the 31 with air conditioned buses and lower fares
- Rockland Coaches stuck to Rockland and northern Bergen counties
- Academy in their core areas of north hudson and Middlesex/Monmouth counties
- Suburban Transit on the NJ 27/US 1 corridor
Lakeland is a bit of an enigma. They soared during the years that the Morris & Essex raill line was being re-electrified, but almost bought the farm when Midtown Direct was completed. After suing NJT for destructive competition, the out-of-court settlement resulted in heavy subsidies from NJT to keep them operating.
I doubt you'll see any new indeps coming to NJ. If CU fails, look for Academy to pick up the profitable routes and leave the rest for NJT.
For those not aware, Lakeland's NJT-supplied D4000/4500s have a three-stripe "ocean wave" scheme similar to what NJT now uses.
MetroB
Read this page and take it for what you will. If this is true, it looks like the RTS will be making somewhat of a comeback...
-F.
THE RTS LIVES ON!!!
-Fred
The RTS fleet at FFX are 1994 models. You'll have to wait at least 2 more years for those to go away. I wonder if the new Millennium RTS will replace those, or if they will get more Orions?
-F.
Dash is a Gillig/Orion company...at least it will provide for a change with the Gillig/Orion sindrome of the DC suburbs.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
-F.
-F.
-F.
-F.
Maybe if the "new" RTS really takes off, we can petition MTS to purchase the Metro tooling from MCI and put it to good use. After all, Gillig needs a run for the money in the high-floor market. ;)
-F.
I'd rather get a 05 than a Phantom for "The Alternative" anyway (my hopefully future transit company)
Jim D.
-F.
Overall, it looks like it was designed by an old Pong game. Barf.
-F.
The reason for square windows? Check out the Thomas SLF...maybe they decided on similiar feature for production purposes? (I figured this out while looking at my THE BUS schedules- I love them)
For me, the Orion VII is a very abstract design...it's like a work of art...I'm still trying to figure it out...
Here is a video~
http://www.natransit.com/video/ATE51.rmvb
and 3 pictures:
For further enjoyment, here is a Volvo B10TL with Alexander body
http://www.natransit.com/video/3ASV304.rmvb
Enjoy~
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
JD
-F.
-F.
BRING BACK THE D60HF!
Not going to happen. New Flyer is winning order after order of low-floor buses. I doubt they're worried about missing out on the few remaining high-floor orders.
JD
If the state kicks in any serious money, I'm sure there would be pressure to buy new buses from Orion.
JD
Let's face it, once the elderly and disabled patrons get used to the ease of boarding low-floor buses, there's no way you'd be able to get away with going back to high-floor buses with lifts.
Jim D.
In America maybe. They were buiding no-step airport ramp buses in Europe in the 1980's.
Check that I'm sorry. The NEOPLAN low-floor Apron Bus was the first introduced in 1959.
Mike
Here's the link to that:
http://www.neoplan.de/en/200_Our%20Buses/400_Apron%20buses/index.jsp
Mike
Nos. 904, 921, 922 and 950 - Will operate according to the regular schedule.
No. 901 - Will operate according to the "holiday" schedule. In addition, trip #25 will operate.
No. 902 - Will operate according to the "holiday" schedule.
No. 903 - Trip #6, 8, and 10 will operate.
No. 905 - Will operate according to the "holiday" schedule. In addition, trip #20 will operate.
No. 907 - Trip #9, 11, 14 and 16 will operate.
No. 909 - Trip #6, 8 and 10 will operate.
No. 915 - Will not operate.
No. 929 - Will operate on a "holiday" schedule. There will also be additional service on trips #120 and 104 from the Silver Spring Metro Station only.
No. 991 - Will operate on a "holiday" schedule. The mid-day trip #718 will also operate today.
No. 995 - Trips #510, 518, 524, 520 and 508 will operate this afternoon.
Michael
Washington, DC
Michael
My experience that I posted took place today (Wednesday)
On the Shady Grove side, the escalator unfortunately doesn't result in a great spread over the platform
Inbound positions:
Front:
Twinbrook
White Flint
Middle:
Shady Grove
Rockville
Grosvenor
Woodley Park
Back:
Medical Center
Bethesda
Van Ness
Cleveland Park
Front/Back:
Friendship Heights
DuPont Circle
Back/Middle:
Farragut North
Middle/Front:
Tenleytown
My guess is the operator put in the wrong code. I don't know what code RI Ave is. I was once on a train to Shady Grove signed as SPECIAL and once saw a train signed up for TAKOMA.
I realize this should be in subtalk.
You guys ride this railroad more often then I do. As you recall at one time there was a question as to what the distention codes were for the short turn locations and the terminal stations before the lines were completed. May I make a suggestion, when you see a train with an abnormal distention displayed, run up to the head car and see if you can read the distention code on the operators consoled. Over time we might be able to compile all of the unknown codes with the know distention codes.
John
What should have happened is when that CAF was turned on at the rodeo 2 years ago, you should have gone through the codes, but I could understand why you would be hesitant to do so. That said, it was unfortunate no train was on so we could have done it a year ago. Do you know of any contacts within WMATA who might have that info?
Yes, however do to the security restriction it’s not likely I could get them.
We might get lucky at the next rodeo.
John
John
B1-#7531-REMAN RTS
3175 looks soo good like this, I hope they do more Metro B's like this!
Tony
Tony
Article here
Note the picture is of the map and schedules at every bus stop that has a shelter.
"(At one particular stop, the many buses that arrived early would pull over 50 yards short of the kiosks; the drivers would emerge, smoke and joke amongst themselves, studiously ignoring their eventual charges.)"
BIG AL
I think three things of it.
1) he didn't plan what he was doing that well. Transfers at the "centers" aren't that bad really, as long as your bus ain't late and tied up in traffic
2) The layovers are really werid. Driver shuts off the engine, says 10 minutes, and goes for a smoke(I swear the whole agency smokes). It feels like a cross country journey.
3) and this is the biggy. He bascially took 2 and a half systems.
Say he bought a daypass aboard PSTA.
$3 bucks, 2 buses. That's find since they both connected just fine at Williams Park(somethigns odd there).
Then he took the 100x. The more popular and nice buses of the 3 cross the bay weekday only routes. There's another $1.50.
2 stops and 45 min later after being on the crosstown...
He's at the hartline terminal waiting for maybe the 8 bus I'm guessing. Another $1.25. Unfortunatly the trolley doesn't run until 11am. It sounds like he's there after that, so that would be faster and more frequent than a bus that comes every 75 minutes I think.
Round trip, andother 1.50 and 1.25 and daypass is still good. $8.50. Still probably cheaper than gas and parking(not to mention gunning the engine when someone annoys you).
And there's three times as many options and pricepoints to pay if you were COMMUTING this route.
Thank you california anti-rail forces for telling me all i need are express buses. you know how fast they go down those highways at rush hour? Probably 10!
If this guy ever took a bus before he's probably have a better story than that first impression. I could do a better job at some of these excursions I do.
If the bus is still on four wheels, what would it take to have both doors blocked?
If the bus is on it's right side, then you got the hoods on the roof.
"" "" "" "" "" "" Left side, same as above.
If the bus is upside down, you still have the emergency windows and the two sets of doors.
-F.
That isn't the case with the C40LF's. The last two windows on BOTH sides of the bus don't have any emergency exits.
Don't forget - there was also a drop of several feet from the bottom of the door to the ground, so those emergency doors probably weren't much more useful to the elderly than today's emergency windows.
As FYI, Flxible New Look transit buses also were equipped with emergency doors prior to 1971.
Jim D.
-F.
A handicapped person or senior would have as much difficulty getting through the door as through a window. The seating by the door did not allow for a wheelchair and was even tough to manuever through for a non-disabled person. The emergency door was more of a pain for the drivers since kids loved to unlatch them. I lost track of how many buses I was on back then where some kid unlatched the door and pushed it open when the bus was in motion. That was more of a safety issue than when they push out the windows on the current buses because you could actually fall out when the door was pushed open.
Besides, have you ever tried to unlatch some of those emergency doors? I have on buses at the bus museum I belong to (that have been oiled and fully functional) and the seniors and disabled would have more problems unlatching that door and pushing it open than pulling down on a red lever and pushing out a window.
B1-#9309-NOVABUS
BIG AL
David
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
And you have the nerve to complain about grammar...
You spelled "Fishbowls" wrong. :-P
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
You can see the roster here.
*psst* ditch the NF's though. I think the new Gillig has the same copycat front the NABI's do, right down to that big wrap around windshield.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Send it to mdlbigcat@comcast.net.
send to pingu45@aol.com
Also wonder what the original paint scheme would look like on a Flxible Metro. If an Orion V was in the original, it most likely would have looked like what the AMG looked like.
As I recall none of the Old Looks were around long enough to get the first WMATA paint scheme (Blue over Red stripe) that was applied to new busses. Some of the New Looks that were acquired from DC transit and the other predecessor companies did end up having the Blue over Red stripe paint scheme applied after major overhauls were done.
John
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Where have you gone? : - )
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Daily Collegian, with PIC
It's a good thing I had to postpone my trip over the summer when I really wanted to go, I may luck out now with a GOOD loop bus. :)
The only other example of such a system would be the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District in Illinois, which serves the University of Illinois main campus. CUMTD has used artics for the past 10 years; initially, they leased 3 MAN artics from Indianapolis for a month, then purchased 13 Crown Ikarus artics second-hand from Louisville before replacing those buses in 2002 with 12 New Flyer D60LFs.
Anyway, they needed these things 4 or 5 years ago when the loop became free. So i missed out on decent buses. Those new flyers don't do it for me, and i didn't really care for the Orions compared to SEPTA neoplans, but they were the best CATA had.
Now, right after I graduated from a nicer school(going to be biggest in the nation this decade), they started their own bus system.
Picture is on this page somewhere
They say it took 6000 students off the road, which is pretty much 12,000 vehicle trips at least on a nightmare to drive. I'm jealous I just missed it, that was an expensive nightmare to drive. The city of Orlando could learn a lot by this.
It's amazing how easy it was to drive around the area a few months ago after this bus line started up. The results are more than obvious.
Now if they had those neo artics, with CUSHIONED seats when I was there, i probably would've said who needs SEPTA and subleased to stay during the summer.
SEPTA has a 3 year waiting list going on?
And yea, if i stood at a stop, and I saw a New Flyer coming, and an Orion on the other side of the street coming I crossed! And I think the buses were new then too.
If so I feel for you, I'll be Pre-Junior next year in the CivEng dept. Just remember, it's the special-ed school for UPenn, we got the short buses, Penn's got old NYCTA RTSes, and 35 or 40 foot Bluebirds.
And Drexel has the shittiest College shuttle system of any university at least on the eastern seaboard. I think there's 5 Blue Birds, identical to the ones NJT runs, which do a vast majority of their paltry shuttle schedule. We also have a school bus painted blue, an old MC12 (I think), and some like 2 or 3 CAGVs.
Also I hate to get your hopes down, but I don't think Drexel has any student-drivers for their shuttles, no matter how much sense that'd make. Everything is subcontracted, the cafeteria, the bookstore, building maitenance, the motor pool and it's maitenance, and just about every other function of a college. I think the only thing they do in-house is IT, and then they better, given the massive size of our CompSci department.
Believe me, you're much better off waiting for SEPTA and their '3 years' than you are trying to schedule your life around the Drexel Shittle. This isn't the suburbs, Drexel sits in almost a perfect place, the 21 and 42 run on Walnut and Chestnut, with about a 2 and half minute headway between them peak (although bunching between the two is VERY common), the 31 provides service along market, although it's headways kinda suck, the Subway Surface serves 33rd St Station, and at peak that can be less-than-a-minute headway, we got two MFL stations, and of course 30th St Station is a block from the easternmost academic building. My only real gripe is that the LUCY (heretofore refered to as the LTUC - Loop Through University City) routes conveniently skip Drexel, it's next to impossible to board one at a stop close to Drexel. It's clear that LTUC was created to shuttle Penn commuter students and professors to and from 30th St Station, to keep PennBus from having to run a 3rd route.
Other than that I'm very happy with the transit around here, right now I'm in an apartment about 1-1/2 miles southwest of Drexel. I shell out 70 bucks a month for a transpass so I can ride the 34 Trolley to 33rd St and drexel, on average I use it 3-4 times a day, so in a given month it easily pays for itself over paying per ride with tokens and transfers. Plus its an anywhere pass on the weekends, so you can go explore the regional rail system then, so long as you bring a book or something to do while waiting for the train back from Thorndale or something.
Anyway, good luck wherever you go...
You're in the 5th or 6th largest transportation system in america, smack in the city limits, aren't you? There's smaller bigger colleges in unincorporated area's of some counties with nothing or substandard services.
One of the nations largest schools just got a full shuttle system this year, and wow, you should see the difference in traffic there. That would convert any anti-transit person to support it.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
JD
Incognito
The West Farms Kid
I forgot/should've pointed out that these bus services are funded/subsidized on some big level by the universities. Part of tuition goes to running the free bus services on campus, which is the reason why they need artics and all these new buses. Right before it was free, it had very healthy ridership, but it wasn't anywhere near it was today. A few hundred percentage points of a boost.
PSU, the weekend nights, thursday through saturday(or early morn sunday depending on how you think of it), and ALL DAY monday through friday.
There's a huge demand.
AND
Yes I had this bus - 7038 - last night on the X3 - run 73 I think if I remember.
Yukon had shortages last night with MCIs out due to the weather and had sent out this one on the X3 and as Hudson said in a prior post that he saw 7044 on the Gowanus.
Let me tell you it was an interesting sight to see the people's faces when 7038 pulled up signed as the X3. People took a double take and started to grumble. It seems that the people would have actually wanted the Orions over 7038. No one has seen a RTS in Express Service on SI in years, since 9250-9285 left Yukon.
The only problem is that it is governed low - at most 45 mph, and it sounded like the engine was screaming trying to get moving fast but the ride was smooth. The seats were in good condition - no tears or damage anywhere.
It will be interesting to see what will happen again tonight. Stay tuned.
Its either that or it would most likely have ended up in Brooklyn.
Sure it was 6207?? If so Kudos to the turnaround rate at Castleton.
Ray
Also lots of N scale model railroad stuff too.
Castleton:S40,S46,S48,S51,S53,S62,S78.
Yukon:S74.
Comments?
B68-#7588-Orion VII
B8-#847-New Flyer
I doubt that hawks will be discontiued, ridership wantents the service.
what i can see is futher route schedule consolidation through out the system.
I have a feeling though that the Hempstead-Springfield hounds(fri-sun only) run that route. I think the stops are Hempstead-Queens Village-New Rochelle-Stamford-Bridgeport-New Haven-Hartford-Springfield.
I take GLI wenever I go to Boston, usually the morning buses. We stop at Roy Rogers for breakfast, then proceed on an always very fast trip to Newton/Riverside stop. Then we continue to Boston. We always leave NYC bout 30 min late, but always reach boston early(earliest was my past trip, i think one hour or more ahead of schedule). So, bout 4.5 hrs with the waiting in the terminal and the bus ride. If ya ever decide to take the bus though, make sure you get an express, not the local one or the casino one. Those are SSSSLLLLOOOOOOOOOWWW
The localest local to Boston stops at GW Bridge, Harlem, White Plains, Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New London, Foxwoods, Providence, Worcester, Riverside, Boston, a total of eight hours and twenty minutes. The regular locals (no GW Brigde, Harlem, or Worcester) take an hour less.
All Providence buses, even the "expresses," stop at Foxwoods.
And their casino service is called Lucky Streak, between NYC and Atlantic City casinos and Foxwoods and/or Mohegan Sun. They also run Lucky Streak service in the Las Vegas area.
They've also got a commuter service from San Francisco to the suburbs.
so far I have seen it on 8480, 8462 and 8463 - They painted right over the number stickers.
Interesting - Not sure why they are doing this -= Anyone seen any others?
Are they not required to show the bus number for all passengers to see?
They should extend it in both directions and make it into a full service route. It would replace the N23 Harbor Rd service. This would make things more organized(N23 runs Main St, N28 runs Harbor Rd). It would follow the N23 harbor Rd route all the way to vanderventer and port BlVD. (for those who dont know, buses turn left onto Mill Pond Rd, merge wit Harbor Rd, right onto Port BLVD, right onto Main St, left onto Bayles, left onto Vanderventer). From there, left onto Port BLVD(yes back north), then right onto Beacon Hill Rd(DW bout the NIMBYs bitchin bout buses on that rd, it's a busy street wit trucks, and I've seen a few LIB's operating OOS down it).
Continuing down Beacon Hill rd(becomes west shore rd) down to the industrial park that the N28 now serves. Right onto Harbor Park Dr, one block, left, one block, left, one block to West Shore Rd, right turn. Follow the current N28 route to Roslyn RR station. Then continue from Roslyn RR station to Harbor Hill Rd, follow to Glen Cove Rd, right turn. Follow Glen Cove Rd south(becomes Clinton Rd). Some buses go to RFM, others continue to HTC.
Stops would be:
All N23 stops from Manorhaven to new delco plaza stop. From there, stops are(some exist as part of the N23 already):
Mill Pond Rd/Smull Rd
Mill Pond Rd/Harbor Rd/Pleasant Av
Harbor Rd/Valley Rd
Harbor Rd/Cow Bay
Harbor Rd/Charles Av
PW BLVD/Sandy Hollow Rd
PW BLVD/Eastern Crest
PW BLVD/Deleware Av
PW BLVD/Main St
Main St/Bayles Av/LIRR PW
Bayles Av/Vanderventer
PW BLVD/Campus Dr
Beacon Hill Rd/Beverly Rd
Beacon Hill Rd/Crescent Rd
Beacon Hill Rd/Longview/Summit Rd
West Shore Rd/Hempstead Harbor Beach
West Shore Rd/Harbor Links(not sure of street name, but the new area with the golf course and senior living center)
All current N28 stops from industrial park to Roslyn RR station(which includes roslyn clock tower for those who dont know)
All N27 stops to Glen Cove Rd
Harbor Hills Rd/Glen Cove Rd
A bunch of new Glen Cove Rd stops(if you really want me to post them, then just tell me), including stops at IU Willets Rd, LIE, Hillside Av, Jericho TPKE, Westbury Av, and Old Country RD
From Old Country Rd, some buses go to RFM, then to HTC, and some continue down Glen Cove Rd, which becomes Clinton Rd, to Jackson Av, then to HTC.
What do you think?
Also, yes, Clinton Rd is served by the N15(limited service) and the N35. The thing is, nothing runs down Glen Cove Rd between Harbor Hills Rd and Jericho TPKE, and then between Old Country Rd and Stewart Av. All the buses take the long route to East Gate BLVD, then down to RFM, then to HTC via various routes. A direct route to HTC would be popular, but there should still be one to RFM. That's why I say to split it half/half.
On Weekdays The N15 turns left off Washington Ave on to 11 Street, Right on County Seat Drive(to serve the courts and NCDPW), and Right on Old Country Road to Roosevelt Field (via East Gate Blvd)
On Saturdays, it goes straight up Washington Ave to Old Country Road.
and
On Sundays, It surrogates the N35 between Hempstead to Roosevelt Field. (Up Clinton, Right on Stewart)
Also, Hempstead Harbor Beach(next to Bar Beach). It'd probably be a popular way of gettin to the Italian Feast, and the summer concerts every sunday.
I emailed LIB the proposal, hopefully they'll review it to some extent.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
One thing I like about Avis - at least their Gillig low-floors have front doors. I hate seeing those 40-foot Hertz buses with no front door!
JD
I don't ever recall seing Hertz with RTS buses; in the past few years, they've always had Gillig Phantoms and low floors.
Jim D.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Gotta love BWIs Neos...
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Jim D.
I remember my neo 3487 went through the summer with the number written in chalk, until they put the "stickers" on later.
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
Sometimes you just handle an individual digit decal wrong, get body chemicals onto the sticky surface, and that's all it takes to make the adhesive NOT work as it should, or on the rest of the digits you handled correctly.
Be thankful the bus got cleaned....
Why would an operator want to take the numbers off? If they do it so that a passenger can't call the TA, why not just follow the rules?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
As for what the people on the bus care about, ya know what? 99.99% of people on buses wouldn't care about which buses are running on which routes, or out of which depots, or what transmission a bus has, or a lot of the other stuff we talk about here. That doesn't make those details any less appropriate for this forum.
Saw 7041 on Fr. Capadanno Blvd this morning in service.
Also, there was an MCI by my house that had a blown drivers tire - you could see the entire rim of the wheel. Couldn't catch the bus #. How do they change the tires on the road? There was some repair truck in front of it. I did not recognize it.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
You telling me that buses #9250-9252. #9254-9269 are hard seats now?
Ray
RESPECT THE BUSES OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Jonn
Da Hui
Started out at 1:45pm by taking the Q train from my stop to Atlantic Av then I transfer to the 4 rather than take the 2 to save time so I get a 1100 series R142 and I head up to 149 St then I catch the 2 and there were no flyers so I thought it was going to be cancelled :-P. Then the C/R annoucnes that all 2's were going to Dyre so I go to ground level and I board 8898 then a big corwd comes out and the dispatchers let the bus get full EVEN THOUGH an Artic, 5456, was right behind it :-\. So then its an OK ride overall then I see a line of 6-7 buses at 241 St and I saw 1/2 of the the R110B train then I board 8751 and he goes no more than 20mph on the entire trip. A interesting sight is that I saw a couple of 40 footers on all Artic routes:
4611 on the Bx12
202 on the Bx22
198 on the Bx40
9229 on the Bx4
The buses I saw:
KB: 5447,5455,5456,5475,5713
WF: 418,431,448,7662,7667,8794
GH: 238,5304,6112,8898,9240
100: 5534,5564,5574,5581
126: 8469,8484,8498,8505
MCH: 6016,6041
MJQ: 8613,9023
MV: 8751,9612,9629,9631
So then I walk down East 180 St to catch the Q44 so I could pass by West Farms depot and I catch 6125 and I see a lot of 10/1100's and a brand new 5700's Artic but couldn't catch the #. It was a pretty good ride aand I get off at BRiarwood station to catch the F train and I take it via Queens Blvd express to 34 St then I take the Q train home.
R68 2776 (Q)
R142 1196 (4)
R142 6436 (2)
RTS 8898 2 SHUTTLE
RTS 8751 2 SHUTTLE
O5 6125 Q44
R46 6157 (F)
R68 2787 (Q)
The new artics are 57xx artics, starting with #5740.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The mayor was interviewed in am New York http://www.nynewsday.com/other/special/amny/
Here's what he had to say about the MTA and the bus program:
MTA’s budget problems
“The MTA should take a lesson from the city. We had a
big budget crisis. I came into office with a $5 billion deficit,
the next year I had a $6 billion deficit. We cut our
expenses by $3.4 billion. A little bit of it was a cut against
the budget, a little bit of it was alternative funding
sources, but basically we found ways to do an awful lot
more with less. It’s hard to argue city services have
declined the numbers are there, the police keep bringing
crime down and throughout the city. Instead of going
to the revenue side, the MTA should go to the expense
side.... Before they go back to the public, or to the state or
city and ask for more money, they have to find ways to do
more with less.”
Taking over bus service
“We want the MTA to take over the buses. The Queens
bus lines and Co-op City buses, and a handful of others
around the city where the city is paying for it. The MTA was
created to provide mass transit for the public in the
region, but particularly in the city. The transit authority was
created for just mass transit in the city. There aren’t subway
lines that go out all the way into Queens. The MTA
should be taking this over. It’s strange. I know of no transit
authority anyplace that isn’t trying to do more... this is
their responsibility.”
authority anyplace that isn’t trying to do more... this is
their responsibility.”
Uh, Mayor Mike, I know of no transit authority anyplace that is willing to take over a $100 million city-subsized bus service and not expect said city to provide a similar level of subsidy in return.
What kind of Republican is this guy? If he truly believes that somebody should be doing "an awful lot more with less", then why doesn't he order his Department of Transportation to restructure the opertaing contracts? Or just go ahead and truly privatize the DOT bus operations? If he did it right, it would save the city an awful lot more money than if the MTA took over the DOT buses and demanded a subsidy from the city.
JD
BIG AL
BIG AL
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The signs were placed by drivers borough-wide who felt the desire to express their condolences in this fashion. Usually, under these circumstances, the average SLD will turn his head when seeing such unauthorized signage in the window.
Many Qv and CS operators also had such signs.
RIP Brother Gibson
They are almost 18...just one more month to go!
JD
Mark
-Fred
-F.
I believe they both said "RIP B/O Gibson." I'm pretty sure there was a "/" there.
BIG AL
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Da Hui
Regards,
Kevin
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The only buses that might be replaced are the cutaway buses used on the downstate (Dover and Sussex County) and contracted routes in New Castle County.
I don't know if NYCTA will buy a new RTS fleet, but perhaps NYCDOT (assuming they still are in the transit business by then) could to replace the remaining MCI Classic fleet.
Jim D.
1)more ODVs
2)more CAGVs
3)Hummers
4)The Mutated Mommy Mobiles PRTC is about to replace with Gilligs
5)Donkey Carts
6)Station Wagons
7)Big Wheels
8)Wes's shoes that he tosses out as he doens't need them anymore(size 15 btw)
9)Truck buses
10)Those fake-me-out RTSes that some company made years ago
Anything else?
Wall St
Church/Chambers
Morris/Tinity
Worth/Church
Where do buses go from each of those stops? Considering they're all so close to eachother, I guess they're part of the same route. So...any clues? I've tried a search on the hound's site for PABT to all the stops, nuttin. Same story with GWBBT, Newark, and MT Laurel. The only runs I found are Wall St-Mt Laurel.
WASHINGTON -- Four words commuters in the D.C. area never want to hear: Fewer trains, reduced hours. Those are just a few of the options being explored by Metro's board to make up budget deficits.
Metro board members considered a number of service cuts at a Thursday meeting. The possibilities include closing some stations on the weekends and running two-car trains after 10:30 p.m. It also includes eliminating two dozen bus routes and spending less money cleaning stations.
The Cheverly, Capital Heights, Federal Center and Forest Glen stations would be affected under the plan.
Chris Zimmerman says some tough decisions have to be made, but he's not sure these cuts are the right answer.
"I think we have seen pretty definitively that If you want to take a first rate system, and make it a second rate system you can save some money."
Next week the board will examine fare increases and a final decision won't be made for several months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There were lots of complaints from not only residents and employees, but from area politicians. From what I understand, the TA did not discuss this with either the community or the area politicians. They just went ahead and implemented the changes.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Ray
However, they did not state when or what will happen to the Q27.
1-Any major changes like this one are submitted to local community boards before they are implemented
I was at the Bus Forum that the TA had late fall and it was pointed out by a member of operations planning who attended that night and said to a City Councilman who attended the planning meeting but left before the matter was discussed and then claimed that he wasn't aware of it.
2-Any major changes have to be submitted to the TA Sub Committee and these meetings are open to the public if you check the MTA Web Page under meetings. Enough public pressure can kill any changes such as the proposal to extend the M-104 when it was transferred from Amsterdam to Manhattanville last September and the 2/5 White Plains Road Local service and a proposal to eliminate the x-29 several years ago
3-Basically the local elected officals just fell alseep on this.
4-If the TA wanted to improve service then they should end their policy of trying to disguise service cuts as service changes. What the TA should have done was to add a second hawk to the Q-27 and operate the hawk over the entire route
In my opinion i believe the Q-27 and Q-83 service changes on paper at least are a major imporvement to bus service in Southeast Queens. But i must admit that since i do not live in the area i can be wrong.
Thank You
Here's the real deal. When first proposed, the local pol's were all for the north-south one trip. After all, the 27 goes to Queensboro College, Cardozo HS and downtown Flushing. Students would no longer have to take a bus to Jamaica to get the 30 to school. When my people in the community realized what situation this put us in, we sprung into action. Pressure was put on the local pol's who in turn complained to the MTA. This was a sham from the get go. It doesn't matter how few people took the hawk between Jam/Spring and Murdock/Spring, their service was being eliminated. These are working people who need safe transportation, not to rely on dollar vans.
The rest is just racial crap. It's not a black thing, it's a blue and white thing. Give it a rest already. The Q46 Glen Oaks weekend and night service was cut completely- which carried more people than the Q83 hawk combined for a week between Springfield and Jamaica Ave. Guess we can blame that one on Phil Spector.
Crack kills!
Well, once again we have united and brought power back to the beholders of love. Just because James 'Godfather of soul' & 'The Hardest working man in show business' Brown was arrested recently for alledgedly teaching his old lady about relationships, that shouldn't transform into a lack of service for those needing a bus overnight. It will be brought back and it will happen as we speak. Gotham Bus Company refuses to acknowledge the power that we have, but BLX doesn't care, 83 hawk service will run again to it's proper course.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
http://www.ny1.com/ny/Boroughs/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=3&subtopicintid=10&contentintid=36855
NYCT calls them Hawks. Some agencies call them Owls. (SEPTA even puts little owl pictures on the public timetables.)
BTW, hawks are not nocturnal birds, while owls are.
They are now offering TWO transfers for the Q27/83 riders.
I guess that'll be the band-aid until something more permanent takes effect.
Q5Merrick? Any official scheduling updates?
BIG AL
Mark
:o
Da Hui
Two: East Loop and West Loop
Da Hui
There are 3 lines which run all day -- East Loop, West End and Point Lookout. The first two run 7 days a week. No Sunday service on the Point Lookout bus.
There are also 2 rush hour only lines -- East Fulton and West Hudson -- and a mid-day only line called "Shoppers Special". These three run only on weekdays.
Of interest -- the Point Lookout bus was formerly run by Long Island Bus (or at least by MSBA -- I don't recall when the service was transferred over to the City) as the N69. The West End bus parallels the N33 Long Beach - Far Rockaway bus for the entire run through Long Beach. The N33 cannot discharge westbound within the city limits and cannot pick up eastbound within the city limits.
Also, I believe that at the time of the switch of the N69, the N33 route was renumbered from N63. I'm not 100% sure about that -- but there was something with an N63 designation in Long Beach back in the 70's.
CG
CG
As far as I know, the N33 was always N33. I moved out to the Rockaways in the '70s and there were only 3 MSBA routes (just as today). They were N32C, N32W and N33(Long Beach). According to an old MSBA map from the '72 or '73, the N33, N63 and N69 were seperate routes. The N63 was operated by the City of Long Beach NOT MSBA according to the map. In fact, the routing of the N63 looks like some of today's Long Beach bus loops.
CG
Does anyone remember the N42? Or N77? Or N82?
N42 and N82 -- sound familiar, but I can't place them.
CG
N77 was the original N27
N82 ran from Bellmore, Merrick Blvd and Centre Ave to Division Ave, and Hempstead Tpke in Levittown
I left my house around 6:30am, left later than planned and on top of that there was a jacked knife tractor trailor southbound I-95, that missing my planned first bus ride from the park and ride lot I was supposed to. I still parked at the lot but had to walk to catch the first bus. I got to the mall asked where the bus stop was and when to catch my first bus.
I first got Phantom 213 on the 1. This is a 35 footer with an M11 engine with a voith tranny(I think anyway). I got downtown and got off and immediately saw a perfect bus watching spot, more like Gillig watching spot. Waiting for my next bus to arrive I saw a couple of interesting sightings. The first was seeing two ex-NJ Transit Volvo artics doing VCU shuttles. The first one I saw was 9229(got a pic of that one) and the next one was 9215. The next interesting sighting was that of a Flxible, again doing a VCU shuttle. I also got a pic of this one. It was numbered 138. The fun was just getting started.
My next bus was Advantage 503 on the 63. I took that to Cloverleaf Mall, but before I got to Cloverleaf, we passed by the Virginia Overland bus garage and this is a busfan's dream. First off I saw two more Flxibles, also an RTS, two more Volvos and some GM new looks. We got to Cloverleaf and I was looking for the food court, but there really was none, just one restaurant. In fact this mall was missing alot of stores, all the anchor stores are gone and half of the mall is vacant, reminds me of Landmark, but at least Landmark still has the anchor stores(for now). I decided to go to the Arby's outside of the mall a little ways down, ate good and got back to getting the bus back. Talk about a layover I was walking around for 30 minutes, went out to get my bus back downtown, the same bus was there 503. So I took it back to downtown. Overall GRTC buses are okay, I like the interiors, the seats are black with cloth padding(grey/reddish design) and the Advantage overall looks and rides ok. The Gilligs GRTC have do have pretty good acceleration and have overall good speed. Back to my trip. I passed by the VA overlook garage again and saw an old look behind some other buses and also further down the road saw another GM new look, which had color similiar to the overlook buses. I got back downtown and walked to the Ride Finders store to get some schedules. I got the schedules for free, but it seems at one time or would be in the future charge for their schedules, with the single route ones costing 15 cents and the entire route book costing a dollar and the express routes costing a 75 cents. I walked back to my bus watching spot took some pics of the various Gilligs as well as the Flxible and later the Volvo. My next bus came thirty minutes later and I got 40' Phantom on the 6 going to Willowlawn, Phantom 812. This bus has similiar seats to WMATA's Neoplans but they are black and they are not crapped up like the Neoplan ones. This is an odd mall in that it is a enclosed mall sandwiched between two strip malls. I walked around a bit, bought a candy bar, and went out to catch the next bus to start my way home. I got 604 another 40' Advantage back to downtown. Got back downtown, viewed some more Gilligs, the Flxible and the Volvos. I also saw a Bluebird XCEL 35 footer running the 66 K-MART EXPRESS, 1201. It looks tacky, but did get a pic of it notheless. My final bus was Advantage 515 on the 26 going back to the park and ride where my car was parked. After some pickups, it got on the highway, and this bus sort of hauled ass when it wasn't in a traffic jam. I got off went to my car drove home.
Overall other than the ton's o' Gilligs, GRTC is pretty good. Some other odd things I saw that was on the bus. They actually have a sticker paying people 100 dollars for anyone who turns in and that person gets convicted of damaging the bus in anyway. Also it appears that all buses have cameras on board. Next there is a ad that profanity and obsenities will not be allowed on the bus and will be prosecuted if it does happen. Lastly all the buses have safehouse stickers on the side.
It was a nice trip, but didn't like the drive down there, so the next time I might go down there might be in the summer.
Those glory days may be gone, but it sounds like Virginia Overland still keeps things interesting in Richmond. I'll never forget doing a double take when I first saw their all-black RTS with Alcoas circulating around the VCU campus. When I was last there in 1999, I even saw one of their ex-Flxible New Looks being used as a church bus! It was repainted in all white, so I guess you can say it was in the Holy Spirit. :)
-Fred
JD
-Fred
Any help is appreciated!
-Fred
All of the GRTC buses were in the orange and tan scheme at that time (August 1991).
Jim D.
-Fred
Virginia Overland bought up a small handful of theirs, in addition to other Flxible equipment. They may still have ex-Richmond Flxible New Looks as well.
-Fred
-Fred
On another note, we have a 1966 GM 5303 and a 1975 AM General from their fleet at our museum (www.commonwealthcoach.com).
-Fred
418 is currently preserved by the Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum in Roanoke (www.commonwealthcoach.com); it is currently in Blacksburg Transit livery, where it went after its 15 minutes of fame.
-Fred
-F.
Was the Flxible no. 138 at VCU still a GRTC bus, or was it a VOT?
Just curious. Richmond kept a couple of their 100s around for a while(1988 Metros), which were the last 40-foot Flxes they ordered. The 300s (1990 models) were the last Flx order ever and were 35-footers.
-Fred
-Fred
Q60, YES (BADLY) the route is so long.
Q58: No, I know its long but that would require more buses and a split operation might have to be made. Plus it would make headways every 10 minutes and seeing that the crowding is heavy, not worth it.
Q60: When I came up with my own plan for this [I would extend the Q40 to be the local on QB], I got a mixed reaction. I'm for it however the major con is that it would mimic train stops via Queens Blvd, still worth taking a risk on.
S78: To tell you the truth I don't know how that would turn out. I'm 50/50 on this one but I lean more towards saying yes but you have the S79 for a good portion via Hyln Blvd so riders have two choices between Richmond Av and around Steuben St.
What I think should be a full time LTD
Q113: The current LTD pattern is very short and doesn't run for many hours. The Q111 has far more service than the 113 [the frequency is 15-20 minutes other than the rush I think] so make the Q113 a LTD all the time it runs and since 111's run 24/7, it would be perfect. Besides those two routes tend to get jam packed 7 days a week [I rode this bus on weekdays & weekends so I know].
http://www.jamaicabus.com/summer2003pdfs/Q111_Q113%20MF12_1_%20n.pdf
http://www.jamaicabus.com/summer2003pdfs/Q111_Q113%20MF12_1_%20s.pdf
Here's the Q111/113 schedule in pdf fromat. Top one is north and the bottom is south.
White Plains Road/Lafayette Avenue
White Plains Road/Story Avenue
White Plains Road/Bruckner Boulevard*
White Plains Road/Westchester Avenue/E 177th Street
White Plains Road/ E Tremont Avenue
turns on E Tremont Avenue, and then turns onto E 180th Street
E Tremont Avenue/E 180th Street
E 180th Street/Morris Park Avenue
E 180th Street/Boston Road
now with Bx36
E 180th Street Southern Boulevard
E 180th Street Crotona Avenue
E 180th Street 3rd Avenue
E 180th Street/Webster Avenue
Webster Avenue/E Tremont Avenue
E Tremont Avenue/Grand Concourse
W Tremont Avenue/W 177th Street
W Tremont Avenue/University Avenue
stays on W Tremont Avenue and goes to River Park Towers with Bx18, Bx40 and Bx42
White Plains Road/Lafayette Avenue
White Plains Road/Story Avenue
White Plains Road/Bruckner Boulevard*
White Plains Road/Westchester Avenue/E 177th Street
White Plains Road/ E Tremont Avenue
turns on E Tremont Avenue, and then turns onto E 180th Street
E Tremont Avenue/E 180th Street
E 180th Street/Morris Park Avenue
E 180th Street/Boston Road
now with Bx36
E 180th Street Southern Boulevard
E 180th Street Crotona Avenue
E 180th Street 3rd Avenue
E 180th Street/Webster Avenue
Webster Avenue/E Tremont Avenue
E Tremont Avenue/Grand Concourse
W Tremont Avenue/W 177th Street
W Tremont Avenue/University Avenue
stays on W Tremont Avenue and goes to River Park Towers with Bx18, Bx40 and Bx42
My opinion on the Q60 is that limited stop service is not necessary because of the availability of the subway there.
Well if that's the case, then why have the M101 as a limited when you have three other bus lines (M100, M102 and M103) as well as 3 subway lines available also?
Also, the Q60 has a lot of passengers that are either afraid of the subways, elderly, have some sought of disability or handicapped or because the subway stations along Queens Blvd are spaced too far apart.
Because the ridership on Third and Lex justifies it. Are you suggesting that just because something is right for Third and Lex, it's also right for Queens Boulevard?
"Also, the Q60 has a lot of passengers that are either afraid of the subways, elderly, have some sought of disability or handicapped or because the subway stations along Queens Blvd are spaced too far apart."
How do you know that the Q60 has a lot of passengers who are afraid of the subway? Has there been a survey done? There are elderly and/or handicapped passengers on a lot of bus lines....that in itself is not a reason for limited stop service. And if the subway stations are too far apart for some passengers, then that's why they need LOCAL bus service, not limited stop service. Limited stop buses would probably stop pretty much where the subway stations are.
Also 3rd Avenue(which should be 2 way to better serve the people) needs all those buses because of the loss of Elevated service
Also, when you see 3 to 4 buses arrive and everyone of them are so jammed packed, that you can't get on any of them, evidently there is high ridership on that line.
It takes the Q60 an hour and 15 minutes to complete it route entirely "on paper". Everyone knows that due to the traffic on Queens Blvd, the crush load of passengers that "in reality" the Q60 sometimes takes an hour and a half and longer to complete its route.
Bottom line, the Q60 has the ridership and the length.
IT DESERVES LIMITED SERVICE.
The Q60 runs the entire length of Queens Boulevard; the subway detours off onto Broadway and Northern Boulevard. Some of that is covered by the 7 local, but the two miles between Greenpoint Avenue and Broadway are served only by the Q60.
Thank You
My guess for the Rush Hour
M101(45)
M102(25)
M103(25)
M86(7)
Peace
David
1)When will be the year THE BUS buy real buses?
--a)this year
--b)next year
--c)5 to 10 years
--d)this is a trick question, THE BUS doesn't even know that they exist.
2)Why did RIDE ON discontinue the 27?
--a)It had low ridership
--b)Not enough farebox recovery
--c)Chris G felt like it
3)How many times does DASH clean their buses
--a)Once a day
--b)twice a day
--c)At least 40 times per day
4)ART's CNG supply comes from
--a)An established natural gas company
--b)Enron
--c)People's orifaces(mostly the rear part)
5)What will PRTC do with their soon to be replaced Mutated Mommy Mobiles?
--a)scrap them
--b)sell them to a used bus dealer
--c)sell them to THE BUS for twice what they originally paid for them. THE BUS will think they got a great deal on them.
6)WMATA's 4400 series surburbans are now at/on
--a)Annex mostly running the C11,13 and W19
--b)Still at Montgomery
--c)Running on the PIKE RIDE
7)What does THE BUS consider 40 footers
--a)Something they'll never buy
--b)They are too good for them
--c)artics
8)What was WES's experience on Corridor Transit's truck buses
--a)very bad
--b)scary
--c)See the Flintstone's opening where Dino pops his head through the roof
9)BWI's new Neo CNG's are considered
--a)Nice looking buses
--b)Car rental transporters
--c)Future Weapons of Mass Destruction
10)When FFX Connector gets rid of their last Orion Ones, what will replace them.
--a)Orion Vs
--b)Orion Vs
--c)A bus they have bought the last three times, that they are so familiar with, with the same engine and built to WMATA specs, oh wait those are Orion Vs.
Anyone who fails this quiz will have to spend the next 2 days straight riding THE BUS's CAGVs. Good luck.
1)When will be the year THE BUS buy real buses?
--a)this year
--b)next year
--c)5 to 10 years
--d)this is a trick question, THE BUS doesn't even know that they exist.
2)Why did RIDE ON discontinue the 27?
--a)It had low ridership
--b)Not enough farebox recovery
--c)Chris G felt like it
Both statements are true
3)How many times does DASH clean their buses
--a)Once a day
--b)twice a day
--c)At least 40 times per day
4)ART's CNG supply comes from
--a)An established natural gas company
--b)Enron
--c)People's orifaces(mostly the rear part)
5)What will PRTC do with their soon to be replaced Mutated Mommy Mobiles?
--a)scrap them
--b)sell them to a used bus dealer
--c)sell them to THE BUS for twice what they originally paid for them. THE BUS will think they got a great deal on them.
6)WMATA's 4400 series surburbans are now at/on
--a)Annex mostly running the C11,13 and W19
--b)Still at Montgomery
--c)Running on the PIKE RIDE
7)What does THE BUS consider 40 footers
--a)Something they'll never buy
--b)They are too good for them
--c)artics
8)What was WES's experience on Corridor Transit's truck buses
--a)very bad
--b)scary
--c)See the Flintstone's opening where Dino pops his head through the roof
9)BWI's new Neo CNG's are considered
--a)Nice looking buses
--b)Car rental transporters
--c)Future Weapons of Mass Destruction
10)When FFX Connector gets rid of their last Orion Ones, what will replace them.
--a)Orion Vs
--b)Orion Vs
--c)A bus they have bought the last three times, that they are so familiar with, with the same engine and built to WMATA specs, oh wait those are Orion Vs.
2)Why did RIDE ON discontinue the 27?
--a)It had low ridership
--b)Not enough farebox recovery
--c)Chris G felt like it
--d)To spite a rider on Dorset Ave
--e)It isn't discontinued. It is running beach shuttles right now in the Bahamas.
1)What was once odd about 8755?
2)1C Ballston was the first to spot something weird with 8925, what was it?
3)Name at least 3 things that made 9659 and 60 oddities?
4)9738 has a distinction among the rehabbed 97s what is it?
5)5119, 9221 and one RTS have one thing in common, what is it?
6)8806 and 8865 are two buses with which oddity?
7)What is 3724's oddity?
8)Name two things that were odd about 9701?
9)9652 was the first bus WMATA had that had this.
10)Before the 4000s were delivered with Alcoas, there were certain buses with alcoas, name as many as you can, including the two buses that still have of the ones that came with it. The Orion 2s still have them, they are excluded.
BONUS
A)What is odd about RIDE ON's 5546 and 5547?
B)What is odd about MD MTA's 9701?
-F.
-Fred
http://photos.transitgallery.com/DCtransit
http://photos.transitgallery.com/DCtransit
-F.
-Fred
-Fred
1.) Upload your photo(s) to an online host
2.) Go to your photo on the web, whereever it is.
3.) Right click on the photo --> Properties --> Copy the Address (URL)
4.) Create a post here, type in the following for each photo : < img src="xxxxxxxx">
(no space in front of the "img")
5.) Replace "xxxxxx" with the URL of your photo
6.) Preview post :)
BTW: In one of Ray's pictures, you will see 5421, the only 99 Gillig in the Ride-On fleet with a completely black front around the destination sign. I know he and Chris have pictures of it. I generally see it when I can't get good pictures of it or when I am driving places and can't take pictures because I am not stopped but someday I will get it.
I can't recall where the fourth one was, it was not in its assigned parking space obviously. Then again, many of the buses (mostly the CNGs) were not in their assigned spaces last weekend.
I once made a model of no. 5700; what a challenging paint shceme that one was! Turned out OK though.
-F.
All the Gaithersburg buses have assigned parking spaces but very often, the buses are not parked in their assigned space. Also, there are numerous stickers on each bus with the parking space number. On the day I was there, it seemed that the assignments were being disregarded.
2. LED signs
3. DD50 engine, exhaust under the bus and not on top, and I don't know the third.
4. 2 tailpipes instead of one?
5. Repainted into the new blue scheme
6. Alcoas wheels?
7. Only Orion II that is ad-wrapped?
8. I don't know
9. Don't know
10. The only one I can think of is that one 1998 Orion V from Southeast division that has the different seating inside, and I forgot the bus number.
A. What Ray said about them in his post.
B. Don't know.
10) Every 9200 I have seen pics of or seen in person had Alcoas. I know 9201 had them as it was the first WMATA bus I ever saw when I visited DC for the first time. Didn't they come with them originally?
-Fred
9201 was one of them that had the alcoas, but the 9200s were never delivered with them to my knowledge. The first gruop to be delivered with Alcoas, were the 4000 series Flxible Es. The 1998 Orion Vs, the NABI artics and Orion IIs were all delivered with them, with only the Orion IIs still having them.
Now for the oddity quiz:
1)This bus had a destination sign for some time similiar to the 93s and 94s
2)LED signs similiar to the 2100s
3)Ground level tailpipes, Alcoas, and large destination signs similiar to the 4000 series Flxs.
4)Still have the dual tailpipes
5)All are the only ones in their series that got the current paint scheme
6)These two were painted in an experimental paint scheme with the white doors. 8806 as well as 8953 also had white painted around the rear grill area, 8865 might have I don't remember.
7)3724 is the only Orion II with the top turn signals in the rear.
8)Had the original smarttrip card, placed in the rear and has interior lights similiar to the 9800s.
9)Detriot Series 50 engine-wish it still had it with the Allison tranny
10)8972,74(before rehab), or 75-can't remember which one, 9112,9201-03, 9360, 9407, 9442-44(I definitely know 43 and 44 had it not sure 100% about 42), 9424-26, 9619, 9659-60, 9701, 9830-35. Currently 4294 and 4368 are the only ones other than the Orion IIs that have the Alcoas reattached.
Bonus:
B1)5546 and 5547 have ground level exhaust and are the only Ride On Orion Vs with a 6V92 engine. Thanks to Ray for adding the 102 width, I didn't think or know that one.
B2)MTA's 9701 is the only one of the 9700 series with Orange destination signs.
BTW, FYI-If you want to ride 4368, you might have luck trying the V8. I saw it the other day on a V8 going to the Deanwood. I will attempt to ride it Monday.
NLT-3 out of 10 with a bonus
Aznboy-only the bonus.
Da Hui
(b) On fixed route systems, the entity shall announce stops as follows:
(1) The entity shall announce at least at transfer points with other fixed routes, other major intersections and destination points, and intervals along a route sufficient to permit individuals with visual impairments or other disabilities to be oriented to their location.
(2) The entity shall announce any stop on request of an individual with a disability.
(c) Where vehicles or other conveyances for more than one route serve the same stop, the entity shall provide a means by which an individual with a visual impairment or other disability can identify the proper vehicle to enter or be identified to the vehicle operator as a person seeking a ride on a particular route.
Hope this is useful.
Jim D.
Da Hui
SOME buses on lynx has auto-stop announcements, if they're turned on. It's connected to flat panel monitors on the bus. About three screens in each. You can watch the monitor, and at the stops it makes a junky announcement. It's only on routes with decent ridership last I've noticed. The volume on those things were never loud enough IMO too.
I'm not sure if they had it installed in 99 or not though, I think it's quasi-new.
It's different than the SEPTA NABI's announcements which I personally like too. I've been wondering is Miami's NABI's do announcements or not too.
Da Hui
Anyone know if this will apply to the Q10 also?
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
The smaller operators lobbied for similar subsidies, particularly those that operated the money-losing intrastate/local routes, but they were always denied because the same companies usually ran profitable NYC routes and/or had charter departments. NJDOT told them to use those profits to offset the money-losing operations. Some tried, but most of them were hit heavily by the insurance blast of the early 80s - bus insurance was skyrocketing, and the privates could simply not afford it.
NJ Transit was formed in 1979 to buy TNJ and MEC - that purchase was completed October 15, 1980. No other private company was actually purchased - the routes were simply assumed when the privates went under. This saved the state money (no need to buy the companies), and there were usually no challenges to the route acquisitions ath the state or federal levels because no one else wanted them.
Coach USA was founded in 1996 and Suburban was one of the original 6 member companies, so it wasn't really a "recent" acquisition. The other 2 NJ firms that founded CU were Community Coach and Leisure Line - ironically, both CC and LL are now overseen by ShortLine (which was heavily sought by CU until they finally sold, and now is essentially the largest of the remaining CU operations).
Quite a few of today's lines are fairly skeletal. For example, I don't know how long Academy will keep running to Downtown Manhattan from Hoboken against the PATH. Boulevard East also seems to be taking a beating.
Can you provide a list of lines that would be considered "on life support"?
The increase of running time is not that much(3 Minutes or less)
Thank You