this bus is at quill depot along with newly arrived 5521. hopefully the issues between nfi and nyct are being ironed out. as for orion nyct should cancel and order nfi low floors a proven product.
I couldn't agree with you more. Those Onions are worthless.
#5529 M23
We need more damn Artics. At least I think we need more up here in da bronx and in Brooklyn. And as for Manhattan the artics on the crosstown routes is useless. It was a good Idea for the M102. But the 79,86 that do crosstown gimmie a break.
AMI
I had to go to Sterling, VA this AM to get my windshield fixed on my car and as I drove on Rte. 28 North near Dulles Airport, I saw a whole bunch of burgunday and white Virginia Area Transit Thomas SLF's and Gillig Phantom's in front of me. They appeared to be 35'. I don't know where they were headed, but one of the Gillig's said "Shuttle" and the Thomas SLF's had nothing on their screen. I know Loudon County was starting a community service, similar to Fairfax Connector or more closely the RIBS (Reston Internal Bus System), so I don't know if these were on a Charter or just heading to a central transfer center. Not knowing Loudon County too well, which was evident when I took 28 too far and ended up on Rte. 7 (oops), that area is a prime candidate for bus service other than the commuter runs into DC during the week.
Yeah, that area around route 28 and route 7 is booming big time. That is where Dullus Towne Center is, and when I worked out there as an assistant they were just starting to build more apartments there. I was up there about a month ago, and saw it developed big time. I never saw the transit service there, but would assume if they do have one, Dullus Towne Center would be MAJOR transfer point. In the future I would say they would have some routes going into Fairfax County to connect with the FFX Connector at either Reston Town Center or at the Herndon Monroe Park and Ride Transit center,or Fairfax Connector having a route or two going out to Dullus Town center. Bus service would also pick up when the metrorail is built out to there.
Ahh, yeah, I think I did see the Dulles Town Center in my meanderings around there. Where I had my car fixed up, there was absolutely nothing to do as I was in some kind of industrial area. Not even a McDonald's or something to grab breakfast!! : ( That area sure is booming and bus service to those shopping areas would be really nice. Dulles Town Center makes a perfect transfer area. I'm sure there is plenty of space for the buses to congregate.
It would be nice to see FFX Connector, RIBS, this Virginia Area Transit (VAT? LOL) and even the WMATA 5A, all coordinate so there could be a relatively seemless travel to these unchartered territories.
The most likely point for all of these systems would be at the Herndon Monroe Park and Ride Transit Center. Right now they are doing some construction there, don't know how long they are going to do it. That would be a great place to have these transit systems come together and I might even throw in Prince William County transit (Omnilink or Omniride), not to mention bus watching and taking bus pics. VAT (insert word that would make this a joke) would be the next frontier in bus tripping, being able to connect from FFX connector or WMATA and go to Dullus Town Center or even to Leesburg.
Virginia Area Transit? Is that an actual TA name, or just the subject heading? Never heard of them. We have a similar fleet in my part of VA; all 35-foot Gillig Phantoms and Thomas SLFs. The latter are blue with a retro-40s white and yellow stripe scheme. Very neat.
-F.
Its an actual name of a Transit system in Loudon County, VA operating in the Dulles/Sterling/Leesburg, VA area.
I see; gotcha. Thanks!
-F.
Gents,Ladies ...
if I have a 7 day metrocard and I want to use an express bus route operated by the NYCTA (Let's say X18 Manhattan-Staten Island)-do I swipe the card twice (2 x $1.50)at the fairbox or does the fairbox automatically deduct $3.
I've ridden the subway and local buses for years when on vacation but never an express bus!
Thanks for any reply,in all the publicity material I have it says the fare is $3 but doesn't mention any restriction if any.
Rob
The 7-day ($17) and 30-day ($63) Unlimited cards are NOT valid on express buses.
You'll need a "pay-per-ride" card or $3 in coins.
Well, let me begin by saying that the 7-day card ($17) is an unlimited-ride MetroCard and cannot be used on the express bus. Neither can the 30-day card ($63) or the 1-day Fun Pass ($4). Only the regular card, that is the Pay-Per-Ride MetroCard, and the 30-day Express Bus Plus ($120) can be used on the express buses. For the regular MetroCard, you only have to dip the card once, and the $3 fare will automatically be deducted from the card. Dipping it twice will just take off 2 $3 fares and you will have wound up paying $6 for your trip.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
wow, Metrocards are so confusing!
I'm glad I asked the question,i've not seen these fact posted anywhere, so i'll purchase a 'regular'metrocard (no letuce/tomato!)
rather than fun pass
Thanks again to all who replied.
Rob
Not really. He just posted it in such a confusing manner. Head on over to MTA.info and they lay it out so much easier.
Oh, sure they can be...I agree...but once you get the knack of it, like I have since the beginning, it will not be so confusing.
Started with El Dorado 5112 on the 42 which I almost missed since I got up way too late. Got to Bethesda on time, then waited for the 47 to show up. A 36 comes along (5166). Driver goes to take a break before going back to Holy Child but as he gets ready to start the bus, it starts making a very loud noise. Some belt in the engine breaks, and he can't start the bus. Comes over to tell us what happened and starts to offer one day passes to everyone (without making sure they were actually his passengers, he realized once I declined his offer saying I wanted the 47). My bus doesn't show up either, until about 9:50, when Orion V 5572 comes. Get on, ask the driver what happened to the 9:30, he says he didn't know, I say "Well it didn't come" so he replies "Well what else am I susposed to say?" Turned out the 9:30 was Orion I 5525, which was sitting along Woodmont Avenue just past Old Georgetown. It broke down and got fixed and got sent by Control up to Rockville for its next trip. Driver of 5572 wasn't all that bad. At Montgomery Mall, I saw 5373 waiting to start the 38, but decided not to transfer since it would mean risking not getting any bus. Ended up being a mistake, I would have been able to make the transfer. Got to my stop, get off, and one light cycle later, 5602, which had entered Bethesda as we left, came. As a result, I have concluded that 5525 was the 9:30, 5602 was the 10:00, and 5572 was the coverage for the 9:30. 5602 is still at Gaithersburg but its sign is now screwed up. It somehow thinks there are extra LEDs, so the first numbers and letters get cut off. Couldn't tell how many people were actually on the bus, since it was about 2 minutes behind 5572.
On the return trip, took the 38 to the Red Line. On the 38, I got 5394, which is one of the crappier Gilligs. It came early but luckily, I was at the stop. I really have to wonder when all this snow is going to melt. Might be a long time. Saw 5603 on the 38 going to the mall and 5719 on the 26. Got on the Metro, train came right away. Lead car was 3106 which was being operated manually. We switched to automatic at Bethesda. Unfortunately, there was a person with a bike taking the railfan seat so I really couldn't see the speedometer.
Since tomorrow will be cruddy weather I'll be going to a mall, and figured I'd go to one I never been before. I am taking the Red and Tan 20 line from PABT to the Nanuet mall. What type of equipment do they run on there? Is it an all MCI Cruiser route, I sure hope so!
It always depend's but it's mostly MCI Cruiser's.Don't bother with Nanuet Mall.It's just a smaller,more elegant version of the Staten Island Mall.I walked that Nanuet Mall the first time I went there in under an hour.Go to Palisades Center Mall instead,its 3 times better than Nanuet Mall.
Well being tomorrow is a Sunday and I wont have much time, I want to go to a smaller mall. The earliest I could get to either mall would be 11:45am ish, and I'd have to leave by 3:10pm in order to get back to NYC and allow a little less than 2 hours just to play it safe. I have to make it back to Flushing by 7pm, the last N21 back home is around then.
I prefer going to Palisades on a weekday, when I have more time, since the place is so huge.
11:45 AM? hell you can get there by 12:45PM,like I said,it won't even take you a whole hour to check out the whole mall.If you still want to get there by a quarter to noon,then you gotta be at the PABT for the 10:15 which'll arrive at Nanuet Mall at 11:35.The fare is $5.85.
I'm slow with checking out malls. Partially because I'm checking out more than the mall itself. :-)
"I'm a girl watcher, I'm a girl watcher, watch em go by, my oh my"
(now if only I could actually find one that actually seeks a guy her own size)
If you leave at 3:10pm from Nanuet Mall on the 20, I'll be the driver relief at Harrington Park at 4:05, and we hit the city at about 5:05p
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Well I scrubbed the trip today, woke up and it was pouring outside, loads of flooding. Maybe another time.
I'd rather go to Palisades anyway during the week, that way I'll have more time.
You can also take the 11A bus from the PABT,it also goes to Nanuet Mall.
Which is quicker? 11A or 20?
The 11A is quicker.It takes the 11A 80mins from the PABT-Nanuet Mall.
It takes the 20 100mins between the same 2 destination's.The 11A departs the PABT at 15mins past every hour from gate 220 and the 20 leaves at 5mins past every hour from the same gate.
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Anyone know how can I get a application for Transport of Rockland? Thanks.
TOR is run by Red and Tan so in order to work on TOR,You have to apply with Red and Tan but I don't think you might get a TOR run,You might get a Red and Tan run.
You have to apply with Red & Tan Lines (Rockland Coaches), we operate the TOR runs.
When you get on the board after training, you'll be on the extra board, you'll work everything (red & tan coach lines, TOR lines and charters). When a pick comes around after you are on the board, THEN you'll be able to pick whatever you want to work be it Red & Tan Lines or TOR Lines.
For Information you can call 201-263-1254.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Hey, thanx for the info. It's obvious to me that I'll never find a coach job out here in Suffolk and I have ridden R&T in the past. We'll see what happens.
Today, Pam and I were invited to see our caterer that was setting up a similar plan to what we're having, so it was off to the Scottish Rite building at 2800 16th St. Since she had to work, I met her at McPherson Sq. where we caught the S4, Orion V 2197. Got a transfer for the return trip and realized it was good for 5 hours! On the way up, I see 5313 on the S4 heading Southbound. I'm thinking, "Oh well, just missed a shot at a Neoplan ride". But, after we were finished, we head out onto 16th St. to catch a Southbound bus to head home and end up with 5308 on the S2. While we slowly made our way down, Neoplan 5309 on the S4 and Orion V 220X on the S2 pass us. The one good part was when our driver floored it going under Scott Circle, so that was fun. When we crossed 14th St., saw a 53xx Neoplan heading South on the 52 towards L'Enfant Plaza. Didn't realize they used artics on that line.
Decided that we didn't want to go home and walked over to Luigi's Italian Rest. at 19th and M and had plenty of time to catch the 6:49 38B, Orion VI 2001 home. I didn't even suggest that, Pam did since we still had time on the transfer. I've never had one good for 5 hours like that, so for the $.25 I paid earlier with my rail transfer, got a lot of rides out of it. On the way home, saw an Orion VI being towed, but couldn't get the number. It was actually being taken to Arlington division, which is odd since no Orion VI's are stored there. I think they do some kind of heavy maintenance there since I see a lot of oddball buses there on the Quincy St. side of the facility.
That's it for my fun with transit today. Off to a museum tomorrow as we feel like being tourists for a change and not do any normal every day stuff.
My Ride On driver this morning gave me a 10-hour transfer, how generous :)
The 52 does use artics sometimes, but not as much as the Ss and of course the 70 line. I saw an artic running on the 52 line a couple of weeks ago(couldn't get the number). This route also would be a route that would need some artics. I have ridden it a couple of times and those times buses were crowded and most of the buses that passed us in the opposite direction were standing room only.
I like to ask. If you used a MetroRail Transfer(25 Cents) and get a transfer,What would the driver would punch out? Would the driver punch a hole on the $1.10??
Yeah, they punch out the $1.10 portion. Even though I only paid $.25 with the rail to bus transfer, that's considered full fare for riding the bus, so you're entitled to a bus to bus transfer the same way you would if you paid $1.10 in the box.
plus, the transfers are already pre-punched to $1.10
But they don't normally offer you the transfers. You have to ask. Make sure I am reminded of this in April! It might come in handy.
Yeah, you have to ask for it, just like you would if you were paying the $1.10 fare. I wonder how many people that transfer to a bus from the rail with that rail transfer think they aren't entitled to one? Its a good point to make sure everyone knows that when we do our transfers.
i was take a Trip to NJ which start from my house in Canarsie:
First i hop in the L R-143 #8236-8233/8229-8232 shows up i hop on mind u the L running in three section so we get to bedford in about a half-hour going very slow between Wilson & hasly - Manhattan Bound side and also between Jefferson & DeKalb - Manhattan Bound side
when we get they no train was they until R-143 #8184-8181/8180-8177
show up i hop on we speed to manhattan speed past 1 & 3 and get to union sq where R-143 # 8125-8128/8129-8132 was waiting 4 me so i hop on get to 8 aV went up stair where i had to run to get R-44 #5312 could not get the rest of the cars sorry Got off at 42ND street went up stair to PA went to caTCH the 123 - Union City i got on the 4:15pm
which NovaRTS # 1131 sHOW UP
THE way hoME i shorting this one up
NJT Nova # 1128 - 123 - New York
R44 - #5250-5248/????
R143 - #8125-8128/8129-8132 Shuttle
R143 - #8184-8181/8180-8177 Shuttle
R143 - #8285-8288/8284-8281
That about it i hit ya"ll up another time
1-100
(I started this thread on SubTalk, and figured that BusTalkers might want in on the fun, too.)
The current Queens Tribune reports that City Councilmember Peter Vallone Jr. (his daddy's place-holder) has introduced a bill to establish a commission to study the possibility of seceding from the state. (The link is http://www.queenstribune.com/news.html#7 for those who wish to read it.)
Any bus-related thoughts on this, people? Could NYCDOT end up taking over Transit, instead of the other way around?
I just noticed there's a contract going out for bid in about two weeks for the removal of 617 scrap buses from NYCT property. Looks like the storage fleet is about to become much smaller...
That would also mean the end of the line for all of the pre-1990 buses.
This particular contract would be for NYCT buses which have been previously removed from service, and not for old ones which are currently active and will be replaced when replacements come in.
and not for old ones which are currently active and will be replaced when replacements come in.
Any idea when the next set of replacements are to be received, or ordered rather?
On order are: artics (currently being delivered quite slowly), Orion 7 CNG's and hybids. All orders are late!
Are there really 617 such buses sitting around in storage? A quick scan of Trevor's roster revealed about sixty out of service/scrap pending buses, including a handful of 1993 Orions. I would guess that this is a contract for future scrapping, but the bid application mentioned a site visit.
there are not so this must be a contract for future scrapping. evidently nimco cannot handle such an amount. this seems like another stupid move by nyct scrapping all their pre 1990 buses and replacing many with an unproven product,the orion 7.
I honestly think that they should cancel that Onion 7 order.
If needed, can they go back to ordering Onion 5s? Or is that model off of the market. I think if the MTA needs newer buses desperately and since the Onion 7 is a disaster, they should go back to the Onion 5 and at least replace some of the leftover GMC RTS left on the road.
They'll be just like the 6000 series.
#6125 Q32
i believe they could still order orion 5 buses however it does not come in the low floor model they want.
Sorry dude, but as already mentioned this only applies to buses already scrapped and are sitting on depot property awaiting removal, like 3919, 3921 and 4884 in Fresh Pond. What I don't understand is why the buses weren't hauled off in the usual way to Nimco or Gershaw scrapping.
BIG AL
Guess what that means! Goodbye 3997!!! *evil laugh*
not yet!! See post 67075. That will bring you to tears for sure. BTW, are there any pre-1990 buses in Brooklyn with brand new Empire plates (other than UP 3962 and ENY 4416)?
I saw 3997 on the B20 this morning. Saturday! I know our friend Big AL has nothing to do with this since he is off on Friday nights, but for the life of me I can't figure out why FP can't park those 1985's and recently arrived 1986's in a place in "the house" where those old clunkers wouldn't be chosen for service on the weekends.
I saw 3986 this morning, also on the B20, waiting to head to the GMF. To rub salt into FP rider's wounds, I saw 3995 on the same route, ending a short run. Both viewings were observed at Broadway Junction. BTW, UP and ENY also use their 1986 buses on weekends. Last week, I was on 4331 to Bensonhurst. UP and FP mus be really short of buses to have to do this.
3995 was on the B52 yesterday, along with the 4382 on the Q55. Thank God I rode 9165 on the B13, and 9163 on the Q55.
B13- RTS #9165
Q55- RTS #9163
I don't see how any depot would be so short of buses on Saturdays and Sundays necessitating to run the real old stuff. Frequencies are just not that great. There are no peak rush hours. And that takes into account extra buses needed to cover subway General Orders as that responsibility is shared amongst depots.
And 4659 out of FP on the B24 just now--Sun night!
Remember what Big Al said before, some of the older buses are easier to pull out because they're stored at the front overnight, and that means they're likely to be used again for the next day.
March 2 update to that 4332 this morning on the B6 and (sorry caine824, cough cough) 3962 heading to Bensonhurst on the B6. Whose idea was it to give it a new Empire plate anyway? I hope nothing else pre-1990 other than 4416 has a new Empire plate.
Many of the 4000's in F.P. have the new Empire plates. It really doesn't mean anything as all vehicles in NYC are supposed to have them by now. A bus slated for scrap next week is still a candidate to get the new plates.
BIG AL
Don't worry Bill, I've been trying to come up with ideas to park the 1985 and 1986's someplace separate so they don't have to go out when not necessary. I would even like to park the 1987's separately. The main problem is when they arrive back into the house late at night when the depot is short on room. They wind up being parked in an area where unfortunately they have to go back on the road in the morning to free up room to move out the other buses. Jamaica depot has the same exact problem. One of the big disadvantages when working in a relatively small garage with limited parking space.
BIG AL
Our oldest buses today are in better shape and superior to the fishbowls which in the 70s were in late life. How we forget the flaming hot rear seats, the broken window parts, the lack of air conditioning, the roaches. But today I still miss those old beat up buses which each had true character - I think MTA should not be so quick to scrap the current older models and should just continue to repower them. (Which seems to be the case - I see more and more older buses on the streets of Manhattan - Mostly out of Manhattanville
I suppose so. I really like the NYCTA's use of a GOH program as opposed to 'Deferred Maintenance' but has there been any revisions of the program itself? Like changes in the procedures as so forth?
I disagree. Those buses back in the 1970's were in poor condition due to deferred or insufficient maintenance. New York, Boston and other cities rebuilt their GMC New Looks in later years and most of those buses looked and rode great afterwards. Or just go to Toronto and see how clean and well-maintained older New Look buses can be even today.
Vice versa, there are some transit operators today running 'modern' buses which have non-functioning A/C, rattling seats and interior fixtures, rusty and/or dented exterior panels, etc. To me, these buses are just as equally deserving of the label 'junk' as those battered New Looks were 25 years ago.
Jim D.
Shoot...even the NEW buses are running around like that. Case in point: our 2001 Gilligs have a perpetual bell problem. Sometimes, if you pull the cord, it snaps completely loose at the end and hangs down on the whole side. Would this the the fault of the supplier of those bells, or was it a factory fluke when the buses were made?
-F.
It definately depneds on the maintenance practices of the transit authority. I remember back in 1998, you had the MTA's '81 & '82 RTSs vs NJTransit's (Ex-MTA) '80 & '81 Grumman 870s. Most of the MTA buses were in superb condition. NJTransit buses were shot to hell. The seats instantly turned into swings whenever the bus hits a bump, and those windows. They were so scratched up that you couldn't tell where you were going in broad sun-daylight.
Even on this side of the river, I hear a lot of people on this board complaining about the '84 thru '87 RTSs at the Fresh Pond depot. I have ridden these buses on many occasions, and frankly do not understand what the problem is. Okay they are old-so what. They are also clean, they run, the A/C works, you can see out of the windows.
If they were subjected to the '85 & '86 RTSs that the Green Bus Lines serves us on a daily basis out of the Rockaway Depot, then they would definately understand my statement.
I disagree! The fishbowls (and Flxible new-looks) operated through the rough deferred maintenance period of the '70's and they still mananged to run for many years. In the early 80's the TA started actually performing maintenance on their buses which of course is when the RTS were rolling in. I remember riding the new looks in the '70 very well and they really went through some hard times - however all of the buses built after 1981 has had the benefit of regular maintenance (and lots of paint jobs). I think if all things are equal.... the fishbowls would easily out-last today's buses.
Wayne
Actually, the only reason they ran for many years is becuase of the Grumman fiasco when it caused hundreds of GM New Looks to be reactivated. When NYCTA pulled the Grummans off the road for good, they reactivated buses that had been built between 1966 and 1972. This was in 1984.
So, many of the buses NYCTA reactivated lived between 14 and 15 years with only some of them being about as old as some of todays RTS. Thankfully, for them, the TA decided to put them through rehab and it added about 10 years to their lives. Still, one did disintergrate on the road so.....
As I see it, the RTS were osed to outlast the New Looks in this era, but outrageous EPA regulations, the demise of the 6v92TA engines, and ADA regulations all shortened the lives of many RTS which somehow still manage to put in 20 years and over a million miles.
Also, back in the New Look era, it was common to keep buses for 20 years, although you had agencies like NYCTA that retired them at 12 and 13, most TAs kept New Looks/Old Looks/Yellow Coaches past their prime because TA's had to buy their own equipment. The government wasn't funding 80% of new bus orders as they are today. If the Govt. told them they would replace buses every 12 years. you'dve seen alot fewer New Looks make it past 15.
All in all, I believe the while the New Look is a strong bus, the RTS has lasted just as long and has only had it's life shortened by goverment regulations that did not exist when the New Looks were reigning supreme, a fact that is often glossed over.
[Actually, the only reason they ran for many years is becuase of the Grumman fiasco when it caused hundreds of GM New Looks to be reactivated. When NYCTA pulled the Grummans off the road for good, they reactivated buses that had been built between 1966 and 1972. This was in 1984.]
No - this is not true at all. The Grumman crisis was the reason the TA decided to Blitz some of the fishbowls, but this was only about 350 buses. These are the "reactivated" buses that you mentioned. However, lots of the TA's old (1960-62) TDH-5301 and 5303 (1963-1965) lasted 'til the Grummans arrived and many operated longer. Also many of the NYCTA Flxible new looks operated longer than 12/13 years. Where did you hear this??? I know this to be the case because during that time I was right there in NYC riding these buses on a daily basis to/from school.
Yes, many BusTalkers do have fond memories of the fishbowls, (myself definitely included) and for good reason. In fact I'd go as far to say that if there's any bus that can be compared to the TA Redbirds (R-26, 28, 33, 36) as far as being long lasting, workhorse backbone of the fleet are the fishbowls.
Wayne
To add, some of the 1964 non AC Flxibles in the 5000/5100 series ran up to at least 1980 which would put them at 16 years. I had seen four of them FP had received and I think FP had a few more as other Bus Talkers had once mentioned here. Also some of the 1962 GMs in the 2000/2100 series lasted to at least 1981......19 years! None of these were remanufactured.
And to that I point you to buses PA1751, PA1767, PA1773, PA1826, PA1852, 2270, PA2660, 3469, 3474, the 30 or so 39-42xx buses, and the 100 or so 43-45xx buses still in service in a MUCH more competitive environment.
I'm going to address a few things, chief among them, is this talk of deferred maintenence that keeps being brought up in relation to the "beloved" fishbowls. It seems that many of you liken these buses to heroes that have lived through an oppressive time and triumphed despite harrowing odds. No.
I believe that you all are confusing real deferred maintenence with buses not getting washed, repainted or cleaned every other week as they do now. That's not deferred maintenence. Just becuase a bus has a few roaches in it doesn't mean that it's being neglected, that means the TA just needs to order RAID en masse.
If you want to get right down to it, NYCTA buses had it easy in the 70's compared to Houston buses. Let's take a trip back in time shall we...
In the 1970's, Houton's transit system was called Rapid Transit/Houtran. At this time the fleet consisted of buses from the 40's 50's and 60's, all of which were on their last legs. Many of them were rolling corpses. They didn't have a litany of depots to receive care from, they had one, a 50 year old trolley depot called Milby, as it was on Milby St. in one of the oldest parts of Houston. The land it occupied was more hospitable for Alligators and Crocadiles than buses. The buses were worked on in a muddy pit where the lifts often sank making work nearly impossible, and when it rained, the puts were flooded.
To compound this, Rapid Transit's "Dreamliner" buses, the GM New Looks, were not the glorious buses they once were. They may have warranted a parade ushering in their arrival in 1961, but now, it was 1976 and they barely able to make the necessary runs. In 1975, 100 more New Looks arrived and in 1977, the troublesome RTS-01's arrived, basically lemons due to their ill designed A/C units. Still, Houtran was now able to rid themselves of some of the Old Looks. When Metro took over in 1979, there was still only one facility, if you dare call it that, and they took delivery of the Grumman buses, which were basically DOA.
It wasn't until Metro poured millions into rehabbing Grummans, New Looks, and the RTS-01's, developed a better infrastructure of facilities for better repair and heavy maintenence that things improved. Ironically, this was when the RTS-04's arrived to rid the agency of many of the troublesome Grumman 870's.
So, in an environment like that, even New Looks could not survive. An environment where drivers would pull put not wondering IF, they would break down, but WHEN.
Now to address some of your points....
>>>However, lots of the TA's old (1960-62) TDH-5301 and 5303 (1963-1965) lasted 'til the Grummans arrived and many operated longer.<<<
Yes, and alot of RTS have survived pass 18 and beyond. Also, the New Look buses didn't have to content with EPA and ADA regulations and the rapidly changing bus market including rapid technology advances. They were only competing against older verisons of themselves and inferior clones.
>>>Also many of the NYCTA Flxible new looks operated longer than 12/13 years.<<<
Yes and we had Grummans last 18 years. Of course this was only about a fraction of the original fleet. On average, you really don't get more than 15 years out of a Flxible.
Not true. Our 1976 Flxible New Looks lasted 18 years, and were ONLY retired because of funding regulations. They still had a lot of life left in them, and went on to serve UVa in Charlottesville for 5 more years. Also, our 1979 Grumman 870s are still running in regular service at Niagara Falls...IIRC, they are now black with full wraps.
Also, PenTran (Hampton Roads) kept 1977 Flx New Looks in service through 2001. One of their 1976 models is still running active shuttles for our museum, as is one of the aforemementioned Grummans.
What's more, WMATA kept its 1976-78 New Look Flxibles in service through the end of 2000. And THOSE are not easy streets by ANY means.
-F.
I said on average. There's always going to be exceptions, but for the most part Flxible buses get the heave-ho at 15.
OK - I'm not going to even get into an argument here, but I'll say this last bit. First - I'm not at all familiar with Houston's maintenance practices (or lack) past or present so I won't even begin to speak about that agency. Next - In regards to the 70's deferred maintenance period... we'll just have to disagree because many of us experienced it first-hand. Although I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm able to distinguish between a dirty bus in need of a paint job and one that's lacking in regular maintenance. I maintain that NYCTA's RTS fleet as rugged as they are had the benefit of regular maintenance where as the daily routine for NYCTA's fishbowls were to complete their runs, have their fareboxes vacuumed, refueled and occasionally sent through the wash. And maintenance... whatever maintenance there was came after the bus finally broke down.
Wayne
This is all very true. In fact, government regulations of 12 years have cut MANY buses from their full useful lives in service. I remember when our 6V92-powered 1991 Gilligs arrived like it was just yesterday; this was in mid-December of that year. Now there is talk that they must be replaced within the next 12 months, and that is sad as they are the strongest runners in the fleet.
Meanwhile, we must keep our barely-running 1994 Gilligs with their chugging Series 50s for three more years. Our TA would much rather retire these, and keep the 91s, but new bus funding won't allow it.
-F.
This is true; in fact, many here have said that if it wasn't for "deferred maintenance", the Flxible New Looks and Fishbowls would still be in service, and the new RTS orders at their demise would not have taken place so soon. Viva variety!
-F.
That's true, but NYCT maintance standards on buses since the Grumman fiasco has greatly improved. If the TA treated the RTS' the same way they treated the fishbowls there is no way any RTS (or Orion for that matter) would last a day over 12 years old.
You can't be serious. The fishbowl love here is almost sickening. But, hey, that's your opinion.
I "loved" the fishbowls too, but the TA never treated them as well as they treat the RTS and Orion maintance wise. Hell, I wish some company would bring back the fishbowl model.
That would be VERY nice. And could you imagine a low floor or articulated Fishbowl? If they can bring back the T-Bird, the Beetle, the Mini, and have a retro-styled Mustang on the horizon, why not an American classic like the Fishbowl?
-F.
And that's not to mention the custom 2003 Corvettes with 1953 styling to commemorate the original. If THAT can be pulled off nicely, why not a retro-styled Fishbowl?
-F.
Actually, not true about NYCTA new look buses being retired at 12 years. 15 years was more like the norm and many were in service well beyond that, GMs & Flxs, even before the Grummans were pulled from service.
Re-read my post. I did not say a word about new look buses being retired after 12 years. I know full well most lasted a long time after that: with shoddy maintance! What I did say is if the RTS did not get the kind of overhauls which the TA subjects them to (3/6/9 year upgrades), the RTS wouldn't last 12 years. NYCT fishbowls never had those kind of overhauls.
I agree with you Bill. Sorry, I was responding to RTS2150's claims of NYC new looks being retired at 12 years. I responded in the wrong part of the thread. Our buses nowadays go through some state of the art testing and maintainance at Zerega which we never even dreamed of back 20 years ago.
Remember when all those fishbowls (GM & Flex) were parked at the Brooklyn Army Terminal? Some weren't that old, but were beat up mechanically. Someway, somehow they got them going again due to the Grumman fiasco! Sure they were rags, sure you were lucky to get heat out of them in the winter and certainly no a/c in the summer, but they got you to your destination after they were resurrected!
Climate control, sadly, has ALWAYS been a problem in either coach type, and our museum coaches are rolling reminders of that fact. The A/C in our 1976 Flx New Look is non-existent, and the heater just gave out recently.
The air now works in our Grumman 870 (for the moment, at least), but that unit has ALWAYS had bugs. What's more, the 870 was the first bus here to have HVAC on-board without having to be changed over periodically, but somehow that got messed up and they have always had to be changed by the season.
Other than good looks and strong running gear, our buses are in a sense like giant Volkswagen Beetles in the HVAC department.
-F.
The Fishbowls simply didn't NEED rehauls every 3 years. They were built mostly out of metal, while ADBs had more plastic and fiberglass in them. Even the late-model New Look Flxibles began to use plastics, yet they seemed to hold up very well despite that fact.
-F.
I miss the fishbowl buses. When they took them of the road(the repowered ones) in the 90 it hurt. The rts buses where nice when they first came out but now 2003 I'm sick of them. And here in Brooklyn accept for jackie gleason depot, we have all these f**king rts. They need to bring back the fishbowl buses atleast in Brooklyn.
IMO, the RTS is the best-looking bus in NYC. I prefer it aesthetically to the Orions, New Flyers, et al, and it is basically the backbone or your operation. It just has a nice sleek look.
-f.
Let me add something here....
I was thinking about it today, and Houston buses DO put on many more miles than an NYCTA bus due to very long routes. This was especially true in the 80's before Metro began to streamline their routes. A route could have four or five branches and each branch could be between five and fifteen miles added on to the regular route. The RTS-04s were the backbone of the Metro fleet and they put on at least 75,000 miles per year. Every RTS had about 1.5 million miles at the end of their careers. And Houston doesn't rehab buses every 3 yrs. Try five or six or more. Especially in the 80's. Add to the fact that the RTS were 18 and 19 yrs old when they were retired still running on the longest and most physically demanding routes, to say an RTS couldn't last in NYC with it's 30 minute routes is ridculous.
I miss the fishbowls and the remans more than ever. I remember the days when I used to sit in the red hot rear seats cause no one else wanted to and I was coming from school and I had a long ride. I used to call it getting my pants pressed while wearing them.
Some of those 6000 series fishbowls were junky, rattled with every bump and were noisy if there was a leak in the exhaust. Sure miss those days, but not everyone feels for them the way I do.
RTS buses used to have the "Red Hot" seats as well. Once I dropped a pencil down there and while trying to fish it out, I burned my fingers.
Now at MV. Saw it yesterday on the M5 Line
Um, this bus has been in MV since January. It's not like it just went to MV.
Well I saw 3965 like about January or last month on the Q46
3906 and 3965 have been at MHV since December. I've rode on both buses on the M2 M3 and M5.
#3906 M2
#3965 M3
Ive also seen it - I think on the M2
BTW, have you been on bus 3474 lately? Last time I was on it, it was crawling on the M3 on St. Nicholas Avenue heading uptown in the 130s and 140s.
I haven't been on 3474 as of late nor have I seen it.
Also on top of that, I haven't been in Manhattan as of late.
#3474 M3
All the 3900's have been out of QV before the end of 2002.
BIG AL
I believe all of the 1986 RTS but 4429 have been shipped out of QV as well. If I'm not mistaking 4336 and 4340 have taken the trip to either Yukon, Ulmer Park or Jamaica.
#4333 Q17
I need to know what how much of what they run, namely RTS' and Orions. Any specific numbers or times are greatly appreciated.
Like any other line, whatever bus is available.
Ok, then.
Check this out: Transitalk Roster By Depot
Hope this helps.
#4934 Q88
Check out this article on the "rebirth" of the George Washington Bus Terminal
Registration Required
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/nyregion/02TERM.html
Hey man,hope ya havn't forgotten about meeting me up in Fordham Rd tommorow for the trip to CT.Be there before 10AM,I'll try to get to the BL stop thats a block away from Valentine Av around 9:30 or so,just to be on the safe side and the bus doesn't leave without us,the top two bus buff's in the country.lol.Although now that a couple of people have labeled Norwalk Mall as not worth going to,someone suggested Stamford Town Center.I guess that'll be the final destination.To me,a good bus ride+a bad mall=a major disappointment.We can go to the Cross County Shopping Center while we're at it.I just may get the urge to buy something.Well see ya tommorow morning.
Bad News Chief,
I have a doctors appointment that I totally forgot about to renew my ICC Medical Card for work.
I apologize BIG TIME! Next trip you plan I'm definately at!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Doesn't matter anyway,it's way way too cold out there.It feel's like your in the North Pole today with it being 12 degree's and feeling like its well below 0.I'm staying warm in my own home today.I'll go on Friday instead.
Glad I didn't miss anything!
Medical went fine and I passed my job yearly physical, Life Goes On At Rockland!
Trev
I'm hearing about the the orion 7 coming to mta but what about the 6.5 are the one at MCH and Manhattanville, are those it?
Onion 6 Buses are 6350-6359. Onion 7s have their own issues problems dilemmas and some.
This is just bringing a tear to my eye!
#1979 X1
There is an order for 125 buses (6365-6424 to Hale, 6425-6489 to QV).
Is there anyone out there who know anyone in New York who make custom made bus(models).
I'm not in NYC, but feel free to write me. Thanks!
I have been thinking about the NYC DOT Buses and this is what I think should be done. Just hear me out first:
Green Bus Lines:
1985-1987 GMC RTS-04 and 06 buses must go. Order some Orion buses simliar to the NYCT's #6000-6349 fleet or WMATA's #2100-2231 fleet. Number those buses #5551-5699 (at least). Keep the current Orions and order more Orion Express buses (#700-718 and #723-730. Buses #719-722 are already there). The MCIs can go to Jamaica Bus Lines and number them like this: #608-617 (formerly #701-702, 705-712), #618 (formerly #608 with the back door) and then #619-622 (GBL MCI buses with back doors...#713-716). Also, keep the TMC RTS-06 buses #1143-1182.
Jamaica Bus Lines:
Leave as it is!
Queens Surface Corporation:
Order more Orion buses for their express fleet (#582-650). The MCIs can go to Command or NYBS or even LLE. This way by ordering more Orion express buses...buses #396-499 can stay local buses. "Thurston" and "Q46NovaRTS-06#9288", what do you guys think? Keep the TMC RTS-06 buses #294-389
Triboro Coach Corporation:
I was told by a source that TCC can not hold no more buses. Well, count the buses that were scrapped and then order to replace those scrapped buses. Get rid of the 1985-1987 GMC RTS-04 and 06 buses and order more Orions for a local fleet. Keep the buses #3000-3071 for local and number the new buses #3072-3130 (approx.) Buses #3100-3130 can be express along with the MCIs (which could go to Command, NYBS or LLE and order even more Orions.)
The reason why I'm going crazy on the Orions is because do you really think the NYC DOT is going to order NABIs, Neoplans or dare I say it...Gillig Low Floors?
As for Command Bus Company, New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines Express:
Leave it as is! Maybe order more Orions for CBC and send the MCI to NYBS and/or LLE.
BTW, with the exception of the GBL Orions, all Orion are CNG.
Let me know what you think!
Ray
NO MORE ONIONS PLEASE!!! They have to get rid of those darn things!
I say that they have to order MCI Cruisers for ALL of their Express Lines. QSC they should give 294-389 to Triboro and to Green so that they can get rid of a few of their GMC RTS. This way the 500s for QSC will be on local lines. Heck they're on those lines already. Today I saw 511 and 576 on the Q104.
And those 3000 for Triboro are already on local lines to begin with.
QSC will need approximately 100 Cruisers to be covered for all of their Express Lines.
Triboro About 50.
Green about 25.
Command-Their whole fleet can be CNG giving the TMC RTS and their Onions to Triboro. Command would use approximately 150 buses and they would be set.
NYBS They would need about 125-150 cruisers to replace the Fishbowls and the Classics there.
LL about 120.
AS you can see a HUGE Cruiser order would be needed just to cover all of the Express Lines. Onions and RTS would be stuck on local lines only!!!
#1800 BXM7
Politics plays an important part here. Aren't the Orions built (or used to be) built in NY State?
For Orion buses destined to U.S. customers, the body shells are manufactured in Ontario and then shipped to their plant in Oriskany, NY for assembly.
As far as politics are concerned, I think that comes into play when state dollars (read: MTA dollars) are used to finance bus purchases. Some transit operators in N.Y. State such as NFTA in Buffalo and RTS in Rochester have gone to New Flyer, NABI and Gillig for recent bus purchases.
JD
NO MORE ONIONS PLEASE!!! They have to get rid of those darn things!
I say that they have to order MCI Cruisers for ALL of their Express Lines. QSC they should give 294-389 to Triboro and to Green so that they can get rid of a few of their GMC RTS. This way the 500s for QSC will be on local lines. Heck they're on those lines already. Today I saw 511 and 576 on the Q104.
And those 3000 for Triboro are already on local lines to begin with.
QSC will need approximately 100 Cruisers to be covered for all of their Express Lines.
Triboro About 50.
Green about 25. Send MCI 705-716 to Jamaica.
Command-Their whole fleet can be MCI Cruisers giving their TMC RTS and their Onions to Triboro. MCIs would be hitting the shredder or going to other companies such as Jamaica. Command would use approximately 150 buses and they would be set.
NYBS They would need about 125-150 cruisers to replace the Fishbowls and the Classics there.
LL about 120.
Jamaica-About 20.
AS you can see a HUGE Cruiser order would be needed just to cover all of the Express Lines. Onions and RTS would be stuck on local lines only!!!
#1800 BXM7
You forget one MAJOR factor. The MTA will more than likely be taking over these privates sometime in the future, if not in the close but in the not too distant future.
You'll probably see MCI Cruiser, Orion VII, and New Flyer Artic orders if anything SHOULD come to pass.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I saw this on www.transitalk.org. Go to the East Coast section and look up Queens Surface Corporation. Then go to the General Motors Corporation and then click on the second picture. The first is bus #324 at the QSC bus depot, the next is bus #381 I think. You will se GMC New Look bus #381 next to Grumman Flxible #730 (that's what I thought but bus #730 is MaBSTOA). So, I'm thinking #130 or #330? Right above the "run" number has a cardboard cut out saying "17". So, I'm thinking "Q17!" This pic was taken on Main St and Kissena Blvd. You will notice it....trust me. Is this true? Did Jamaica have Grummans OR was this the usual "Bus broke down, bring another bus from a different depot" thing. I remember Wayne Johnson saying that Jamaica NEVER had Grummans so I'm just checking. Thanks in advance.
Ray
P.S. I may have that number wrong. I do not think it is bus #381 but go through each of them. You'll see it!
Ray,
There must've been a little confusion/misunderstanding as Jamaica depot did indeed have Grumman 870's. Later when the TA started creating "RTS" and "Grumman 870" depots JAM lost their Grumman 870's. When the TA rec'd their Grumman 870 there were a small number of depots that did not get any. Those depots were... Fifth Ave, Crosstown, 100 Street and West Farms.
Wayne
Flatbush never had Grummans, either.
David
My mistake Wayne! Please forgive me. It makes sense now.
Ray
Ray,
It's cool. Also - As David pointed out... Flatbush also didn't get any Grumman 870's. The unique thing here is that while Flatbush didn't get any Grummans they did receive the RTS.
Wayne
Ah, okay. I thought Jamaica never got any Grummans. What numbers of Grummans did Jamaica get though? I know the pic had bus #239 on the Q17.
Ray
Based upon a visit to the DOT yard on Flatlands Ave on 8/23/00 there were 14 JBL Grummans. The numbers ran in a range from 401 to 423. So they had AT LEAST 23 buses in their fleet at one time.
They are talking about the MTA's Jamaica Depot (Q4, Q5, Q17, Q84, Q85, etc.), not the NYDOT's Jamaica Buses, Inc. (Q110 thru Q113)
As the late Gilda Radner would say (as Emily Latella) NEVER MIND !!!!
Sorry that I misunderstood the question.
Click on bus #739 and next to bus #739 is bus #239 going southbound on Main St at Kissena Blvd with the Grumman Flxible posing a cardboard with the number "17" on it.
Ray
Click on bus #739 and next to bus #739 is Grumman Flxible bus #239 going southbound on Main St at Kissena Blvd with the Grumman Flxible posing a cardboard with the number "17" on it.
Ray
Ray, I was looking at that picture also and had thought the same. So you confirmed it was 239? I kind of figured it was 239 and not likely a 700 MaBSTOA though FP once had PA131-PA137 from MaBSTOA.
Today, I went up to observe the #2 and #5 G.O. After seeing a movie in Queens, took the R train to Lexington Avenue and then the #4 to 149 St. Seems as though some people cannot figure out local and express buses and what buses stop where. However, these are the buses I saw today, depot by depot. Parentheses represent buses on which I was on, along with the order of buses. I was on 4 buses today, 2 express NB and 2 local SB.
KB: (5465, 1st bus I was on), 5431, 5490, 5446, 5473, 1077
GH: 9483, 8085, 9459, 9449, 8057, 8065
MHV: 8772, 8774, 9005, 8267, 8286
AMS: 413, 414
MCH: 6023
126: 5044, 8179, (8466, 4th bus I was on), 7553, 5040, 9208
MJQ: 9621, 9649, 5186, 5183, 9653
HP: 8507, 9607, 8501, 9493, 9505, 8231
UP: (9298, 3d bus i was on), 4857, 9107, 9094
JG: 8090, 8523, 8541, 8547, 8549, 8676
ENY: 8905, 9076, 9036, 8927
FP: 9161, 9577, 9578, 9156, 5057
FLA: 9430, 9438, 5113, (5119, 2d bus I was on), 9401
On my first trip, #5465 accelerated slowly, but once on the expressway for a while, it reached 40 mph (its max). The 2d bus, 5119, did fairly decently, but went slowly under the elevated. The same can be said for 9298 (I was surprised to see this bus governed to 40 mph), and 8466 (see 5119). At least Manhattan and Bronx put in their fair share this weekend. What was surprising was that there was a pre-1990 non-REMAN in this G.O. (4857). After this, I then took the #5 train to the W and then the #3 to take me home.
6190 R
1420 #4
5465 KB
5119 FB
9298 UO
8466 126
9021 #5
5062 W
2026 #3
Saturday I rode KB's 4853, express from E.180th to 149th. It did have a hard time climbing the hill on the Sheridan Expwy. opposite Whitlock Ave. #6 line station but considering that the load was up to the front door I'm happy the old clunker even made it!
Why does FP send their Novas to the Bronx? Those Bronx riders don't deserve them. They should get 4600's/4700's and the 3900's. If another shuttle occurs in Brooklyn, then I will be glad to do observations on it. However, I hate traveling the Bronx, its easy to get lost up there.
Anything other than a FP Nova might break down on the way up there! Also, please cut a break for the driver!
Because of the mileage involved, the better and newer buses should be sent. If you will notice, there was only 1 4000 observed on the whole shuttle. Personally, I would have sent the 8000's and 9100's and kept the 9500 and 5000's for the Fresh Pond routes.
BIG AL
Well, its just I want those Bronx riders to get a taste of what we have to suffer with over here. I would love to see them suffer with the 3997, that would make my day!
The problem is, it probably could only get over the bridge when it is on a tow truck to a scrap yard. Other buses that have tortured Brooklyn you have mentioned before, but also 4054, albeit a JG original, was meant to torture Bay Ridge riders. At least that bus is gone.
You must mean 4654. 4054 is an ENY original.
Da Beastmaster
What buses did ENY get originally (3985-4070)? I thought that they originally had 3985-4017, of which only 4014 remains. I said 4054 because it tortured me in Bay Ridge when I went to high school there. That bus had no acceleration, yet they put it on the busiest route in JG, the B9. 4654 is a JG original.
Yes, you are correct. ENY originals are 3985-4069.
B14#3998
B12#4035
You're correct ENY Nova, 3985-4070 are ENY originals. As for JG, their originals are 4600-4682 and 4643-4651 came back there in September.
4652 also came back, but it is now OOS awaiting transfer to Nimco for scrapping.
Hey, dont get madd at us Bronx bus riders. Get madd at the damn MTA. Its not our fault we have buses you want. Hey you dont see me sayin O I hate traveling to brooklyn because I can get lost over there. The fact of the matter is if you do not know where your going , you are going to get lost anyway. I dont even live in Brooklyn and I know my way around.
AMI
Are you a Gun Hill rider, AMI? If so, you have the best buses in the city (not counting 100% Orion or Orion/NFI depot). Nothing pre-1990, not even REMANs. In fact, we Brooklyn riders love 5075-5124 (remember them in GH) and 5205-5149 (remember them in KB).
5221 B82
The only Brooklyn which even comes close having low average-aged fleet like GH is Jackie Gleason. GH riders shouldn't get that excited, because they're not in 1ST place when it comes to having the lowest average age fleet. That title goes to Castleton in SI, their riders haven't been on anything thats pre-1990 for a couple of years.
The only Brooklyn Depot which even comes close having low average-aged fleet like GH is Jackie Gleason. GH riders shouldn't get that excited, because they're not in 1ST place when it comes to having the lowest average age fleet. That title goes to Castleton in SI, their riders haven't been on anything thats pre-1990 for a couple of years.
Well I love my New flyer Artics. I think out count is 175. They come in handy. We have a little variety here at Gunhill. I hear my route is going to get moved to West farms. I hae a good feeling that that will be Artics and Orion 7. I think we had 5075-5124 for a short time. I remeber riding it on the 31.
5421 BX31
AMI
Don't get me wrong, I like the Bx12 and Bx29, however I have very little interest in the Bronx. And I rarely go up there. Also I will never, ever ride a Kingsbridge route(even if it's the 9111-9139 on it).
Those hilly streets suck, I wish it was more like Brooklyn where its mostly flat. I bet Brooklyn's old hand-downs wouldn't stand a chance on them.
Would you want to be on 9655-9699 (9656 being a 1999 bus that came in with 4900, 4902-5249)? As far as that, just checking a map, there are several routes that appear to run on streets so bad that only the old buses deserve to be there. This appears to mean the 7, 10, 18, 20, and the 36. Like the B57 route, the streets on which they run are either so hilly or so badly kept that newer buses may wind up crapping out prematurely. That is my reasoning to why KB is a dumping ground, especially considering that it used to have Orions in it (such as 440 on the Bx1 prior to the D60HF buses). For that reason, YUK would also have older buses, or so the reasoning seems to implicate.
After my first trip up to 149-GC, I went upstairs and what should greet me on the local shuttle buses? 8434 out of FLA and 9578 out of FP.
B46#8438
B52#9578
Da Beastmaster
You guys in brooklyn have it made with the MTA junk - The GMC Rts buses at Triboro and Green are in the condition that the old fishbowls were in back in the 70s. They are filthy, you cant see out the windows, the ac is poor , when it rains it rains inside also, the back seats are hot, and the exhaust smoke can be real black - just a compete horror show.
The MTA junk is much better.
Hehe! I agree with you there. Especially Triboro. Their Onions are not much better than their GMC RTS.
#2067 Q18
Anything is better than the crap Fresh Pond has to suffer with. I would rather have Green Lines 654(which is fast) than any of the 4600's/4700's over here.
Try Triboro's GMC's - Trust me it does not get worse.
Yup, I agree with ya too. Triboro, Green, Jamaica... all have junkers..
Whenever I hear the Who's "Magic Bus" on the radio, the percussion reminds me of riding on the Green Bus Q37 line when I was first dating the woman who became my wife.
Why were the original Orions numbered with 3 digits?
Is 100 the lowest # in the system? , As a kid I remember riding regularly on fishbowl # 1 , I think it was like a 1962 model, it was on the #11 - (York Avenue) which later became the M31.
They were numbered with 5 digits, 93001 to 93216 i think. 317 was the first 3 digit bus as a 3-digit bus. As far as bus #1, that bus was in FB at one point. The lowest numbered bus is 101.
NYCTA fishbowl #1 was at quite a few depots. It was at 126 St.,FB, FP and probably others. I remember seeing it during the 60's on the B53 (now Q54)and pointing it out to my friend and said " Look, bus number 1." That was part of the 1959 order, 1-190.
I remeber it well
I think #1 was at ENY for awhile during the mid-70s, I recall seeing it on the B12 (I think) around 1973 or 1974.
The Orions jumped to 3 digit numbers from 5 digit numbers due to some glitch in the MIDAS computer system IIRC.
93001-93086 became 101-186, halfway throught the order, the MTA had Orion start placing 3 digit numbers on the buses starting with 187. Also 8401-8402 originally came in as 93501 and 93502. The Idea? To place the year as the first two digits of the bus number.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I remember riding 93086 (I think) on the Q48 during a visit in June 1994, subsequently when I got online I found a site w/ a bus roster and was surprised to see those had been renumbered.
Kinda related, the 3-digit Orions seem to have Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines, but on my last visit in June 1999, I rode a 6000-series Orion and I coulda sworn the engine was a Detroit Diesel 6V92, I was surprised because I thought the 6V92 wasn't available after 1992 or 1993.
Trevor my friend I'm surprised! The original numbers to the 1993 Orions were 93001-93096 (101-196). The original 3 digit numbering began with 197. 317 is a CNG test Orion for 581-610. 8403 came in as 93503.
#93087 Q32
#187 M1
I know I made the typo, but I was so lazy last night I really didn't feel like making a Correction post.
Regards,
Trevor
Just wondering why buses all the way from Jamaica are used on the Queens Plaza Subway shuttle . Why not bring buses over from Manhattan
Quill for example would be a quick ride to queens.
Jamaica is a long ride.
Each borough receives G.O. priority. A small-enough G.O. in Queens will be serviced by depots in Queens. A larger G.O. will be serviced by all available depots systemwide, usually offering the "home borough" the largest allotment of overtime.
Normally, if this is what I think it is (Queens Plaza to Queensbridge or Court Square), this would be a few buses from CS.
No its the shuttle bus from Queensboro Plz to Vernon-Jackson.There's no 7 train's to Times Sq this weekend.
All 3 Queens depots have runs on the 7 shuttle, but you probably will NOT see any QV buses this week for reasons I will not disclose.
The EFG Court Square/Queensbridge/Qboro Plz shuttle hawk was solely operated as assigned runs to QV 2 years ago. This was one of the few times a shuttle was actually picked as a steady piece of regular work.
I was on this bus Wednesday on q32 - Seats wee in good shape and it moved well - This is a good bus. Only problem is the time it takes to load/unload the suburbans on local routes during rush hours.
That's why they're getting converted to local seating like 146.
I think ALL Onion and Nova Suburbans are supposed to be turned into regular local seaters.
#101 Q32
I've read a number of posts about run numbers but nobody has been able to answer my question. I've read that the run number includes the operators ID number. That means, for example, a M4 leaving Penn Station weekdays at 10:04 am could have a DIFFERENT run ID each day of the work week depending on the B/O. Is this correct. If the run ID is 003, is 3 the operator's ID.
Down here in Washington, a bus gets a block number that stays with the bus. It DOESN'T change because the operators change. Seems to make more sense than in New York, IF I understand correctly what goes on.
Perhaps Big Al can give me an education on run numbers because up to now, I've been left hanging.
Michael
Washington, DC
(Formerly NY, hoping to move back when I retire)
The run number is simply the identification number of a particular schedule on a particular route. The run number will never change, although the bus operator may vary.
Hypothetical Example:
I pick run 003 on the M4. Run 003 reports at 4:45am and clears at 2:20pm. Run 003 is off Friday and Saturday. What does this mean to me? This means I follow the outlined predetermined schedule, known as a "paddle report" for run 003 on the M4, or simply 3 on the 4. I'm off Friday and Saturday.
On Friday, someone else will be driving run 003 because I'm off. The run number stays the same. The schedule stays the same. Weekends are a whole other story- but again, there will be a run 003, but follow a Saturday schedule. On Sunday, my day back to work after my weekend, I may have run 002 instead of run 003, depending upon the schedule. The runs are predetermined and presented each pick.
If run 004 on the M4 is off Saturday and Sunday, the same operator will have run 4 all week, with a different operator on the weekends.
Now, anything can happen-
An accident
Operator goes sick off run
A breakdown
Etc.
In these cases, ANOTHER run 003 may be placed into service because the original run 003 is "down". In the case where a driver has an accident, run 003 may be covered by someone else, if someone else is available. The new driver on run 003 will follow the same schedule as the original driver who is now unavailable, possibly still with his bus. The replacement bus will display 003.
The same holds true for a driver that becomes ill during his tour. He will pull in his bus, and another run 003 will be placed into service with another driver.
If a bus breaks down, a replacement bus may be sent to the driver on the defective bus, or may be replaced by another driver entirely, at the descression of road control or supervision involved.
Remember, all bus drivers have a meal break. Many bus drivers relieve one another on the road. When one driver takes a bus from another driver, the new driver will display his own run number and follow his schedule. In other words, if run 003 on the M4, or 3 on the 4 is scheduled to releive run 19 on the 4, when run 19 shows up at the predetermined timepoint, run 19 goes to lunch, run 3 takes the bus, follows the schedule for run 3, and continues in service.
Got it?
If not, lemme know...
You've done a great job in filling in the (pot)holes of my knowledge!! Thank you. Now I understand that the runs are predetermined and are tied to the work. A bus can have multiple run numbers because each B/O has a run number attached to specific piece(s) of work. Previous explanations had a gap, which you closed completely. A route might only need 4 or 5 buses on a Sunday, but there can 8 to 10 run numbers because B/Os get meal breaks (with or without the bus). I guess if the B/O keeps the bus, the run number doesn't change. If the B/O relinguishes the bus, the bus gets a new run number.
In DC, the block number stays with the bus for the day, regardless of the number of operators assigned to it.
Michael
Grateful in Washington
Hehe, if you take Ride-On, some buses from Gaithersburg keep their run numbers for months. 5619 was "V2 Z" for several months, until it got changed to "WASH". That is alot closer to its real run (it should say V2) but some buses have things such as HOT, EASY, and LOVE. Ride-On buses do keep their blocks all day, week, or even all pick sometimes.
At Silver Spring, buses move around each day. I saw 5409, one of the anniversary buses, on the 42 this morning (after doign a run on the 11) but it was on the 23 on Thursday. Buses get their blocks set correctly.
I also saw these following run numbers on gaithersburg busses
ROLL
ROCK
MOVE
SNOW
HOPE
69
WHAT
LICK
etc... (one unique run numbering system ;)
At least they call over the radio using bus numbers, otherwise it be a mess.
NYCT uses run and route to call operators over the PA/Radio when an operator fails to properly log-on.
Example:
Attention Queens Division- 36 on the 5 call console. Run 36 on the Q5 call console immediately. 1852.
If there is no response within a reasonable amount of time, you may hear a "code search" for the assumed bus number, with instructions for that operator to contact Queens console.
Well thats not exactly true in the entire TA. What you have described is whats done in MABSTOA. In the Brooklyn Division it is done differently:
They are 3 types of schedules
1-Weekday
2-Saturday
3-Sunday
Lets say you have picked a run on a Brooklyn Division bus route
that does not run 24 hours a day
Lets say on the B-4 you pick Run 4 which is Sunday and Monday as the Regular Days Off and is an AM run. An AM run is a run which clears before 8:59PM you then pick a run on the Saturday B-4 table which is not a work run. A work run basically fills in when a driver has a day off. A operator can pick any AM run on the B-4 which is not assigned to a work run.
If Run 5 on the B-4 has Thursday and Friday as the RDO the driver will pick from 3 tables Weekday,Saturday and Sunday any run on the B-4 which is not assigned as a work run.
Each schedule starts at Run 1,2,3, etc.
So a driver can have Run 4 weekdays and Run 2 Saturdays.
A driver who picks Run 5 weekdays can have Run 3 Saturdays and Run 2 on Sundays.
The driver can also pick a differnt Saturday or Sunday run and keep their weekday run.
Lets say i pick Run 4 but do not like the Saturday Run 2 i can pick a differnt Saturday run as long as its not assigned to a work run or picked by another driver who has more time on the job.
The only requirments when picking runs are as follows
1-It must be on the same table ie B-4 for all necessary days
2- It must be all AM,PM or Hawk runs on all days. You can not pick AM weekday and PM Saturday
3-The weekend runs are available if its not assigned to a work Run
Lets say Work Run A on the B-4 will be Run 1 Sunday,Run 4 Monday, Tuesday-Off,Wednesday-Off,Thursday and Friday Run 5 and Saturday Run 1
If you pick a work run A on the B-4 you will work those runs on a given day.
A work run may be on any route in the depot and again you can in theory work 4 different routes. Again you have to have all AM,PM or hawk runs
Thank You
None of that really matters as it pertains to run numbers as identifiers on buses, which is why it wasn't necessary to get into the details of picking for the purposes of explaining the run number on a given bus and whether it changes when the operator changes, which it does, regardless of whether you're an OA or TA operator.
What does matter in your above presentation is how OA picks work runs verses how TA picks work runs, but that wasn't the topic of discussion and it doesn't directly relate to the question asked.
A weekday run will never change regardless of the operator, regardless of division. The ONLY exception would be running a holiday or weekday school closed schedule. Run 1 on Sat will always be run 1. Run 1 on Sun will always be run 1, neither of them will change, the schedule remains the same regardless of the BO in any division.
The only reason I included a pick scenerio was to give an example of why a BO may have a different run on a given day.
This is a LOT to think about!! It would be easier to understand if I had the actual book B/Os get that list the possible combinations.
Before Amtrak increased security at Union Station, Washington, DC; I was able to waltz into the crew lounge (I knew some employees) and pick of the list of assignments for the next schedule change. I came to understand that a regular job could mean a different train every day. It looks like the same thing applies to buses. Regular job means the same piece of work every first day of the work week, every second day of the work week.
In the railroad industry, employees have to be off 8 eight hours (12 hours maximum on duty) before they can work another 12 hours. What is the maximum number of hours an operator can be on duty and minimum time off before (s)he can go back to work.
Why does an AM run clear by 8:59 pm. Is pm correct?
Possibly more questions later.
Michael
Getting less confused in Washington
Michael,
Yes 8:59PM is correct for any AM run to clear. Why? I do not know.
Remember, these are work rules that go back to when the bus companies were privately owned and operated prior to the City of New York taking over these companies starting in 1940. Even in the TA Queens and Staten Island have different work rules than Brooklyn and MABSTOA.
Hope i did not confuse you more
Thank You
I need some time to digest what your wrote. At first glance it sounds simple, but if I think too hard, it falls apart.
Michael
Trying to understand in Washington, DC
What a week it's been. Recently, we had a large downpour, and due to the fact we are in a valley with a large river, there was massive flooding here recently. Unfortunately, that meant bad news for our museum bus fleet, which was housed in a building on a flood plain.
I got a message Wednesday that half our buses were under 4 feet of water. I quickly dashed out to the bus stop, slipped on ice, and fell. As a result, I missed my bus, which resulted in a 50 minute walk to get to the site.
As I arrived, a towing company was on the scene, and was pulling out our 1976 Flxible New Look no. 179 (Valley Metro), my favorite in our fleet. Once the coaches arrived safely to our museum site, we immediately hosed off each bus, and sprayed out 2 inches of mud that caked the floors. Needless to say, all the doors and windows were opened to air them out.
What's more, the drivetrains of each coach was contaminated. Two mechanics from our TA assisted in draining the engines, trannies, and axles, and filling them with new fluids to prevent freesing and rust. What a mess on the floor; we had to push out a lake of mud!
This went on for over 9 hours, but it was worth it to save them all. In fact, we drew local media attention; our newspaper interviewed us and took photos, and we made the front page of the next day's Virginia section. (For the article, go to www.roanoke.com)
The following other coaches were also saved:
-1947 Mack C-41 no. 319 (Safety Motor Transit)
-1966 GM 5303 no. 418 (Virginia Transit Co.-Richmond)
-1973 GMC 3302A no. 5 (Staunton Bus Service)
And last but not least, WMATA 1974 AM General no. 7535, the only other known survivor of that fleet, was also saved, and is shown on the truck in full color on the front page of the article.
Thank goodness we were able to rescue these poor things!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Great news about some older buses. Last week, half our historic fleet was pulled from a flooded building; after being submerged under 4 feet of water, we got 3 of them running again. First, our 1966 GM 5303 (ex-Richmond) fired up, then our 1974 WMATA AM General started up after over 10 years.
And last night, the news got even better; I got to witness first-hand when our 35-foot Flxible New Look (my favorite bus in the collection) started up for the first time since it was parked in 1989. It spewed a ton of water from its exhaust and blackened the inner walls of the building, but after several tries, it ran like nothing ever happened! During this time, I also removed the seats, unzipped the foam, and let them all air out. The driver's seat would literally soak your ankles as water gushed out from under it!
Another bit of good news is that our museum site is now updated, complete with photos of the above coaches and much more. Feel free to check it out at www.commonwealthcoach.com.
NOTE: All three of the above buses are powered by Detroit Diesel 6V71s. Just another testimonial to the Slant Six of bus engines!
-F.
Our museum houses one of two known survivors from WMATA's AM general fleet, the first ever made. We currently have no. 7535, a partially restored 35-footer; it recently came to my attention that the other one may be donated to us, which is the one sitting on their lot in DC.
I am curious about the following...
-Is that one a 35 or 40-footer?
-What is the condition of this bus?
-Is it still running?
If anyone can let me know, that would be wonderful. I am not trying to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I am just curious.
-F.
Take a look on TransiTALK in the WMATA AM General section, there is a photo of the bus in question. #7523
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks Trevor! Will do.
-Fred
From what I remember of the days I lived in Arlington, VA, the 7500's were 35-footers. We had a bunch of them running on the local routes in the area. I never did see them anywhere else in the DC Metro area, though I'm sure they were out there.
Thanks for the info, Steve!
-F.
This past Saturday, an interesting thing happened; the MDA Car Show came to town, the proceeds of which benefit the Muscular Dystrophy Association. Many primo classics, street rods, et al dominated the inside and parking lot of our civic center, and a model car contest was held around the Exhibit Hall of the building.
Since I am also a car nut, I usually bring a few entries. This year, I brought along a 1968 Dodge Dart, a NASCAR Bill Elliott Dodge Intrepid, and the ultimate in obscurity...a 1979 Grumman Flxible 870. Needless to say, it was the only bus in the contest.
Later that day, the judging was announced. Not only was I surprised to place in the Street Machine class with my Dart (it was the largest class, with over 20 great-looking cars), but I also placed in the Slammer competition with the bus, a class usually dominated by low-slung Impalas and import racers!
The "O" scale resin kit started out as a 40-foot Flxible Metro "D"; it was then cut to 35 feet and restyled as a Grumman, then the front wheels were dropped for proper ride height. I custom painted it in period local TA colors to match our restored museum example.
-F.
Well saw one interesting observation as well as a couple of others.
The first observation was seeing 9702 on the A12. I guess this means that it and its brothers 9701, 9703 and 9704 are now housed at Landover. The second was seeing an Orion V being towed into the Landover Garage, couldn't get the number tried to, but driving and trying to get a bus number isn't a good thing so I didn't pursue that option. After leaving the grocery store, this is where I saw an odd observation. This one had 9727(Southern) running on the F4(Landover), leaving New Carrolton which could have meant one of three options. 1) Could have replaced that Orion that was towed to Landover and took over when it broke down, might have been the closest bus to cover and then ran the rest of that buses routes (I highly doubt it). 2) Could be that when WMATA is about to receive new buses (this would be the 250 CNG bus order), they sometimes put some odd buses on odd routes. What I mean by this is that a bus from one garage may run on another garages route, which is not odd, I have seen WMATA do this for a long while, back since the days of new look domination. This might be a more probable explanation, though the next group of CNGs aren't supposed to be delivered until close to 2004. 3)The third option is that this bus and maybe a couple of other of Southern's 9700s may have been transferred to Landover, in this one time will tell, though I do go with option #2. Last week saw 5158 running on the 84, but that bus doesn't run from Landover.
One last thing was seeing 9446 about to go into service on the 84 which pratically all of the time see 30 footers and maybe a stray Orion VI. That is all I saw today, who knows what I will see going to and fro work Tuesday and Wednesday.
Saw and photographed Orion V 4309 (with the orange sign) at Friendship Heights this afternoon. It was on the 34. Also saw Orion II 3715 with a broken sign. Said NOT IN SERVICE, driver had a paper E6 sign in the window.
I didn't see a whole lot today, either. On my Target Store excursion of Northern Virginia, I ended up finally at the one in Potomac Yard. I had gone to the one at Seven Corners but they didn't have what I needed for my electric razor, so I braved rush hour and headed down there.
Saw the 10P and 11P coming through the shopping center. One was 30 footer Orion V 3941 and the other was 3945. But when I left, Orion VI 2077 was on the 11P heading to Crystal City. I didn't realize ridership was that high on there to warrant a 40 footer. I saw fewer buses than I thought when I was on Army-Navy Drive, but did see Flx Metro B 9359 on the 9E and an Orion VI earlier on the 22B near Seven Corners.
I saw some other things. Rode 5589 on the 37 this morning (for a change) and 5369 on the trip back. Took pictures from the hill north of Grosvenor before taking the Metro (Breda 3106, same car I had Saturday), and El Dorado 5126 on the 27, which was late, as are most 27s.
Today (3/3) was rather uneventful which gave me some free time so I decided to check some bus statistics as to what exactly was on the road at certain times of the evening in regards to my "no 4's after 6" policy. This should put some of you Fresh Pond bus complainers at ease.
The last 4000 series bus pulled out of the yard at 5:35pm.
Due to a minor shortage of buses after that for a few minutes, I had to send 3902 on a pull out at 5:42pm for a quick 2 hour run. This was the last pre-1990 bus to leave the yard for the day, still keeping up with my policy.
As of 8pm, ALL the 3900's were off the road and pulled into the house.
3 out of 5 4300's were off the road and in the house as of 8pm.
4552 was off the road as of 10:15pm
As of 10:00pm, there were a total of 52 Fresh Pond buses on the road, with only 12 (including 4552) being 4000's series buses and 40 being 8000 series or newer.
As of 12AM midnight, there were a total of 38 Fresh Pond buses on the road with only 8 being 4000's series and 30 being 8000 series or newer.
This all means that around 8pm, your chances of getting a 4000 series bus anywhere in the Fresh Pond area was only 23% while at midnight it was only 21%.
Hope this bit of information makes you guys like DaRidgewoodBusBuff feel a little better about the buses running over in Ridgewood.
BIG AL
Thank You Big Al, me and Bill from Maspeth should feel less ashamed of what our area has. BTW, where was the 3902 sent on? Please don't tell me it was on the B13. That would be an insult to my favorite route.
had the opportunity to eat at peter lugers on sunday and saw 4552 on the road. i trust it wasnt big al that sent it out that day.
NJ Transit put a hold on the Neoplan AN-460 Articulated order. Due to the recent events with NJT's ex-Head of Bus Operations, NJT is investigating to see whether Ms. Maureen Milan recieved kick backs from Neoplan to win the order.
This is on top of the investigation of Ms. Milan in which she recieved kickbacks from NovaBUS, MCI and Detroit Diesel. Digging a little deeper on the last batch of 1999-2000 Nova RTS, Nova wasn't the low biddger, ORION WAS! On the MCI order, MCI wasn't the low bidder either. MCI, New Flyer and Neoplan bidded on that order and New Flyer was the original low bidder with the Viking. NABI was originally reported as the low bidder on the Artic order, which made it a little suspect when Neoplan was awarded the contract.
Time will tell.....
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Interesting development, Trevor. Needless to say, had New Flyer won the commuter coach bid with the D40S/D45S, MCI would really be in deep financial trouble, and it probably would have spelled the end of the D-series at least 2 years ago.
And if the rumor about Neoplan's financial situation is also true, the "NJT curse" will have claimed another victim:
- Volvo as a direct manufacturer
- Eagle
- Flxible
- the RTS
- and possibly now Neoplan
Maybe that's why MCI tried to "buy" the contract with the kickbacks... they could have been next.
From what I understand MCI is in a little trouble too. I don't know to what extent though.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
of course this all stinks but lets not forget the former governor now epa administrator for george bush who oked this stinking bus order which did nothing to relieve nj pollution. the viking was a piece of crap that would never have made it anyway. good to know njt is as corrupt as nyct.
yes, but only 3 were ever built for NYCT before Den Oudsten (NFI's Dutch parent) went kaput. Those are 996-998, running out of Casey Stengel Depot in Queens.
Right, do you have proof that they are crap?!
The only problem was the height, all driver's I've heard talk about this bus was positive!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
What I meant to say was just that the company who built the Viking buses went out of business before more could even be ordered, for reasons I am not clear on. Houston ordered about 100 Vikings. Sorry for the confusion.
As far as the original topic of this thread, I hope Neoplan's situation is not too bad (and the same with Motor Coach Industries), or this will be a repeat of late 1995, when everyone scrambled around for buses after the death of Flxible (could this have been a reason why 600 RTS buses were ordered in 1996 considering that the only other time this many buses were ordered was in 1981, along with anothe 50 Orions (the batch in Casey Stengel)). Would anyone be considering buses from Prevost Car, Inc., or is all they make in the way of the transit bus the NovaLFS?
As a sidenote to you, if the Gillig test in Pittsburgh goes successfully, I can only imagine what will happen when more Gilligs come your way. That would be a horrifying sight.
As a sidenote to you, if the Gillig test in Pittsburgh goes successfully, I can only imagine what will happen when more Gilligs come your way. That would be a horrifying sight.
Well Pittsburgh already has an order in for 165 40 foot Gillig low floors with delivery expected starting in May of this year and going through January of 2003. This is in addition to the 58 35 foot Gillig Phantoms that are currently arriving here.
I'm dreading all of this from what I have heard about Gillig over the years from various systems. PAT can kill a bus in a couple of years at some garages. Preventive maintenance is an unknown term at some of the garages here in Pittsburgh and the repeated sending out of buses with serious mechanical and safety issues is somewhat common system-wide.
The areas love of road salt (a few snow flurries results in a 1/4 inch covering of road salt on the areas roads) also will play a key role in how well they hold up.
I'm holding my breath and hoping these Gilligs that PAT bought make it but I'm not betting money on it.
Untrue. New Flyer received no further orders for Vikings and decided not to market them anymore.
David
damn what else can go wrong Neoplan is having fin. problems. The NOVA RTS bus stop production. It seems that all my favor. buses are now going out of production!
viking bus could not fit in most tunnels, bridges and depots. therefore it was impractical. hence no more vikings.
What a STUPID move on the part of NFI... I thought that the Vikings are the most attractive bus in the NYCT fleet.
The Vikings CAN fit in the Lincoln Tunnel and the PABT, NJT would've ran them just fine!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
That would have been interesting to see Vikings in NJT -- about 1400 of them or so. Same holds true for 996-998 @NYCT with the Vikings.
However, I like the D4500s that NYCT and NJT have -- but it would be nice to have a mix in there, like NJT had with Eagles.
Hmmm
Anonymous posters who claim to be NJT employees have posted on the NJ.com Transit board that the Neos are delayed only because the suburbans are overweight in the rear section.
Personally, I'm having trouble with that since the NJT Neoplns are 2 feet shorter in the rear section than the standard AN460 (Neoplan lists the AN460 as 60 feet-11 inches, NJT's intro said it was 59 even - this explains the loss of 8 seats and one full window).
Any further word, Trevor?
wow while tose artics are certainly good lookings. Andway how are those artics handling in NJT.
Why didn't NJT go with the low bidders on its recent bus order? Orion and NFI seem like reputable companies...
Right, that's probably some bullshit cover up!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Just curious, was it because NJ's specs were to include a CAT engine that ended up preventing NABI from winning the bid coz NABI doesnt offer such model?
Stephen
NOPE! The CAT engine was a special order, EVERYONE was willing to do it because they wanted the NJT order. It's just suspect that even though NABI was the low bidder, Neoplan still got the order.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
A funny thing happened today; I was walking towards our transit center Downtown, and as I was crossing the street, one of our Express service Thomas SLFs rolls by. As its Cummins ISB powerplant accelerated, it set of a car alarm on a nearby Pontiac. What a laugh I got out of that one...you don't see buses set off alarms every day!
-F.
Yeah, I used to get a laugh out of that too. Occasionally drivng a Cummins powered Flxible at Univ. of MD, I'd set one off as I passed by. It usually happened on campus more than on a regular road.
Really? Was this an L-10 powered Flx? Those have always run quiet and smooth for me. Wonder how they would set off an alarm?
-F.
I'm not sure what type of Cummins we had, but it was probably the vibration of the bus more than the noise itself that created it. The streets were kind of narrow on campus, so I had to pass by parked cars fairly closely.
This could be true...vibration plays a large role in alarm disturbance. With narrow streets, I assume these were 96-inch wide coaches?
-F.
That's cause them Cummins are too loud. I've also seen it happen with the LI Bus Cummins powered buses as well.
I've had the same happen in vehicles with the Detroit series 50 as well.
Bingo! See what I mean? The Series 50 is an EXTREMELY loud engine. We have them in our 94 Gilligs (see elsewhere in this thread), and you can hear one around here a mile away!
-F.
>The Series 50 is an EXTREMELY loud engine
Really? We have 11 of them, and 10 of them are very quiet engines... One of them, the retrofit, has a loud turbo whine, but Im thinking that's just because something is wrong with the engine. *shrug*
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Actually, the RTS does tend to be quieter....why? Because there is a LOT more soundproofing in them, probably more than any other bus type. Gilligs have virtually none, if any. The RTS models I rode in Detroit (1997-2002 models) were quiet and smooth for a Series 50.
-F.
The TMC RTSs Fairfax Connector have sometimes get loud and they have DD50 engines. I guess it depends on how the engine is doing sometimes if the engine is out of whack it would become louder. I was on a Flxible with a very loud engine today and usually they are not that loud.
Hmmm....I think you cant compare two generations of Series 50. If I got you correctly, you are referring to the 1994 GP. The new Series 50 has better emission control, which traps down the particulates inside the engine...
Also, Wheels, Tri Delta, and Metro Transit got 2001 GP with Series 50 are quiet too...Try them out when you visit the Bay Area or Minnieapolis...:)
As for Cummins M11 and ISL engines, at least this is what is happening in the Bay Area and in Hong Kong, no matter Dennis, Gillig, NABI, New Flyer, Neoplan or Volvo, they are louder than when they were new...so I think the issue is that once the engine gets old, everything goes worst...
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
I'll have to agree with you on that Flxible, the Series 50 is a loud engine. I love it when the guys pull out of the yard with either the Orion or the Gillig and the motor just screams! The drivers be killing them!
D.
Yeah...Cummins engines in general are very loud. The only thing that rivals them in sonic levels is the Series 50, especially in the back of a Gillig, which has NO soundproofing at all.
-F.
Today something very disturbing happened when I was on the bus. As we were awaiting departure, an older man in the back was spitting on the floor of the bus repeatedly...one of my FAVORITES in the fleet, no less. He kept doing it repeatedly, and it was highly annoying. My first thought was to either report this to the B/O or simply tell him to knock it off. Then I saw an indentation on his jaw, which signified that he may have had some type of oral cancer. With this in mind, I kept quiet and didn't say anything.
Did I do the right thing? What would you guys have done?
-F.
Maybe ask him if he would still stop spitting...be polite probably. I would've most likely done the same thing you did, Flxible, but asking him to stop politely shouldn't cause any trouble, emphasis on shouldn't.
True...you never know, that could have started a public brawl. And that's ALL I need to ruin my day. Especially if it gets me kicked off the bus, whether it's my fault or not, much like a barfight. Trust me, I've seen it happen.
-F.
-F.
He needs a spitoon. :) Really, it's disgusting to do that kind of thing, on a bus, with people around. He had no excuse. He should have had a can or container with him.
Hell YEAH it is. Spitting on the floor not only is a disrespect for the bus, but what's more, there were LADIES on that bus. Not to mention the men, including me, that were offended by his actions.
-F.
I would have told the B/O. If he had some kind of problem, then he should carry a paper cup with him. The man is a savage, with no respect for anyone. I notice many elderly people think they are above the law and can't be told off because they're old. I'm 25. If I ever get that way, please kill me. ^_^
Obviously. Yeah, my first instinct was to tell the B/O, but at the time I didn't want to hear a bunch of crap from the culprit about it. From now on, I won't think twice about dropping a dime on such cretins...that's just despicable.
-F.
He should have spit out the window. I don't know how your system's windows are set up, but if someone did that on a WMATA bus, there would be no excuse, because the windows are slide sash windows, which all they have to do is slide the window down and exit spit on road.
Yeah...ours have Excel slide sash windows, so he could have very well done that. However, we were inside the transit terminal, and people walk on the platforms all the time. Maybe he did that to keep from spitting on people, who knows. Still no excuse to dribble all over the floor of a bus!
-F.
Too bad some paper towels weren't handy, you could have politely offered him some.
Well, in this day and ages, maybe it is better you did NOT confront the character, for your safety and that of others. You never know what their reaction might have been.
Contacting the bus operator discreetly might have been a choice, but sometimes that is not possible. They just seem to know that your telling the bus operator on them.
they use to build the RTS,Classic,and now they have the Flxble specs..couldnt the MTA simply ask them to build them a bus suitable for our/other system?
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The Flxible plant was closed down over seven years ago - MCI would need to set up a factory to produce new Metro transit buses, and I think it's safe to say that NYCT is not going to pay them extra to do that. The transit bus manufacturing industry is a low-margin business at best, so MCI or any other company would face an uphill battle to get someone to lend them money to start operations. The profits simply aren't there right now to attract investors.
Jim D.
I heard from an MCI Rep, the old Laudville OH Flx plant is now an MCI rebuld center.
Really...Loudonville? So MCI does rehabs there now? How neat...and what is the Delaware plant up to these days...still the Universal Coach Parts main facility? Surely Ohio has another factory location for the potential rebirth of Flxible buses!
-F.
With gasoline rising to 2.00 a gallon due to the feces in Iraq, I'd say it's a safer bet that we may see such measures become more realistic in the near future. And if nothing else, the Flxible Metro design would become the best-looking army tank ever made...LOL.
-F.
I always thought it would be cool to see a MCI D4500LF, with a few steps towards the rear of the bus with a second door near the mid-rear of the bus.
All it would take was a little retooling from current operations. - Transit buses and coaches in 40/45ft options
Flxible actually made a low-floor demo towards the end that was based on the Metro; I have heard that it did not stray far from aesthetics at all, which is a good thing. A brief note: I found a Metro Magazine article from 1995 in which Ed Kravitz, latter President of Flxible Corp., was interviewed about the future of transit. One of the things he outlined was that he saw low floor buses becoming the wave of the future, and little did we know they were working on one. Sadly, not long after the interview, Flxible closed its doors.
I wonder if MCI has the tooling for the low-floor Flx as well?
-F.
This is true. I heard this from my friend who is a driver on the B64-4 4700's from Ulmer Park are being scrapped this week. 2 are parked outside, 2 are inside. I saw the one inside, no numbers left on it. Guess more buses from QV or JA are comning to Ulmer Park. Screwed again.
B1-#9328-NOVABUS
B64-#9323-NOVABUS
Side Note: Saw #8309 broke down at 86th St and 4th Av this afternoon.
Probably some buses from QV (from this pool maybe: 4335-6, 4340, 4429, 4484, 4499, and 4501)? I doubt JAM is giving up its buses.
Ulmer Park did have these buses parked in the back out of service today:
7511,7514 and 9080(this one needs a new motor).
Did see 2 buses in the garage with no labels, the dispatcher inside didnt know the numbers. And yes, i did see #4330,#4332 and #3962 today(i was on #3962-it had a dent and the driver was complaining about it).
B1-#9312-NOVABUS
B8-#583-Orion V CNG
B3-#3962-RTS II-04
Caome824, r u talking about a dent outside on the right front below the window???
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
yup-thats the one. the bus was assigned to the b3-the driver tried to kick it to remove it. he wasnt sure if the trip was safe or not. Geez, at least the bus worked.
B1-#9323-NOVABUS
B8-#8530-TMC
If Ulmer Park does lose some 4700's, then they will only get replaced by older crap, just look at what happened to Fresh Pond.
in that case, it looks as those 3900s and 4300s that came in were replacements. Sorry, caine824.
This week Fresh Pond scrapped 1 4600 and 1 4700. Unlike 3902 and 3951, all logos along with radio and farebox have been removed, so it looks like these two definitely won't be rising from the grave. I forgot to write down the exact numbers of them. I'll get the info on them tomorrow.
BIG AL
There was in interesting article in the Daily News on 3 Mar called "Empty Bus Ride Into Dept" basically describing some of the biggest money-loosing bus routes in the TA. The pick of the litter was the X25 which, according the the DN, carries a whopping average of 29 pax per day.
Other routes outlined included the S55/56 and the Q79.
Now here's what I've noticed with my own two eyes:
When comparing the local bus operations between NJ Transit and NYCTA, I've noticed the the TA offers pretty frequent service many of its routes, and this article even focuses on those routes which logically should be cut back or eliminated, but the TA keeps presumably for "customer convenience" -- the Daily News interviewed one X25 passenger who said the bus was almost like his own private limo -- since hardly anybody rode it, he could kick back, stretch out and read his newspaper in peace, not to mention the fact that norm buses are MCI's. Why pack into the subway with the common folk, when you could bask in luxury!
I think this route, along with the others listed, wouldn't last a day at NJ Transit. Or at the very least, they'd run limited service.
I've personally noticed that NJ Transit generally seems to operate only what they feel is nessecery.
For example, and this is just from my own observations, so don't hold me accountable ...
Let's take the 11, 28, and 29 buses which run along Bloomfield Avenue. Generally, these buses run every 30 minutes during the day, a little more frequently during rush hour, and on weekends, roughly every 40-60 minutes each.
There is some peak-hour express service on the 29.
And no overnight service
Now if the TA were running those lines, I can't help but wonder what would be different. Here's what I think MIGHT be different:
>Limited-stop service throughout the day on the 29, if not the 11 as well.
>More frequent service (each line running every 15 minutes or so throughout the day).
>All-night service on the 29 (every 60 minutes or so).
There are several routes in the greater Newark area that offer a good level of service, such as the 1, 13, 21, 25, 27, et al.
But I can't help but wonder how service would be different if they were run "TA-style".
I think probably limited-stop service and all-night service on several lines.
And more frequent service on others.
Another example -- The TA would probably run the 72 every 15-20 minutes throughtout the day (as opposed to 30 minutes currently) and every 30-40 minutes on weekends, rather than every 60 minutes.
The 709 is another example -- probably every 20 minutes and have each trip run the entire length, rather than those evening and Saturday short-turns between Paramus and Passaic.
Any other ideas or thoughts?
Or should I just go back to sleep? ;-)
Well LI Bus is like that, they usually dont run a route unless it's absolutely neccesary. Many major roads in the county, like Jericho Turnpike in Syosset, dont have any bus service at all.
Of course if NJ Transit and LI Bus were run TA style, they never would be using those unreliable Cummins engines. :-0
What engine do the new LIBus Orions use (those with the standee windows)? Also, there are 10 NYC buses with Cummins engines, the 914x in Fresh Pond.
"There are several routes in the greater Newark area that offer a good level of service, such as the 1, 13, 21, 25, 27, et al.
But I can't help but wonder how service would be different if they were run "TA-style".
Hopefully, if the TA ran them, they would have 24 hour service. I cannot understand for the life of me why NJTransit does not have 24 hour service on these routes. These are some of the most heavily used routes that I know of. And yes, there is demand for them. I know quite a few people who live along these routes. A lot of them do not have their own transportation. God help them if they are out past 1:30 am.
The #1 line comes the closest to having 24 hr. service with roughly a 2-3 hr.ap in service.
Again here I am seeing things that I haven't seen before. My day started off by seeing 9704 on the A12, not far outside of my house. Next was seeing another unrehabbed 8700 series running. This one was 8739 running on the D6 going towards Stadium Armory. I hope that this means that the 8700s aren't going anywhere and that they'll stay a little longer. Next I saw 5204 on the 54 turning onto 11th street, from F street. Before I got on 395 saw 3945 on the 13A. They really do need to consider running this route only during rush hour, as the times I have ridden it, the runs have topped off at about below 10. They also need to cut the route short of Federal Triangle, turning the 13A on 14th Street going back to the Pentagon and the 13B turning from 14th street onto constitution avenue. That's my suggestion anyway. Leaving work from home on 395 towards the exits for King Street, saw FMR bus 9227 broken down in the right lane. Looks like it just broke down, and it cause sort of a backup. Finally saw a Neoplan doing an S2 run towards Fed Tri. it was 5303 with the left side still clear of an advertisement(at least of what I could see).
That is all of the fun I had, planning to take another bus trip thursday, if it doesn't plan to snow again, which they are not forcasting to (with weatherpeople, you never know)
Monday night at Pond Road bus yard in Boheima Orion V #9939 from Suffolk Bus Corp (Suffolk Transit) caught fire shortly after being fueled! My brother is the night time fueler at our yard and he told me what had happened. The driver was parking the bus when the engine compartment just started smoking. The bus wasn't on the road today nor was anywhere to be seen in the yard. Suffolk needs help! Buses burning up and breaking down left and right! Any good mechancis out there? We need you! Driver was not injured incident TG!
D.
9939...what a coincidence, I saw this bus about 3 weeks ago being placed on a flatbed truck (not sure what broke down) at Stony Brook University on the corner of North Loop Road.
I was on 9923 when it overheated at SUNY stony brook. DDEC kicked in and shutdown the engine. The driver didn't know what the problem was but I could see the temp gauge and it all the way to the right.
Sounds like the bus had a defect and should've been sent back to Orion. Orion better replace that bus!
The bus was repaired that same night. I guess it was electrical or something. I seen it on the road Wednesday on the S-61. That bus is always on the 61 in the PM's.
D.
Betcha this isnt the last time that bus is going to conk out.
Hey I heard about that bus over the radio! That happened sometime last year! It was a Spanish guy operating that bus at the time complaining about the oil light and temp lights were on and you could hear the alarm going off in the back ground. Our buses are all messed up! Bayshore has all the best running equipment while Pond Road gets stuck with the garbage! Our supervisors want us to try and push the buses to the limit when they run hot. This is because so many break down at one time they don't have replacements for them. I feel doing so further damages them. I also feel that Suffolk should be able to borrow from neighboring companies in times like this.
D.
LI Bus is like that too. They usually have them run until the thing cant run no more. I cant count how many times they are told to keep going when the alarm is going off (a buzzer on the Cummins Orions, a beep on the DDEC ones). I remember riding 112 on the N21 when the buzzer sounded all the way from Manhasset (which replaced a bus that broke down in Great Neck). Anyway it got to the hill just before my stop and conked out, and there was a terrible burning smell.
In summer especially, they usually have to shut off the a/c when the bus overheats and keep it going until it shuts down on its own. Problem is they need a bigger fleet. They have no business scrapping the diesel Orion V's when they can barely keep the CNG's running.
What can I say, Long Island has no respect for transit!
Yeah that bus has been plagued with fuel delievery problems and overheating transmissions. On time that bus was on Oakdale Boheima Road when it stalled out on the rail road crossing! That was a close one! But that problem has long since been corrected.
D.
We need help on Suffolk Transit and FAST! More new buses for Suffolk Transit. These Gilligs are not getting it. As a matter of fact, Suffolk Transit could get Gillig Low Floor buses....afer all they do make 30 Ft and 35 Ft buses. The horror!!!!!
Ray
Hell yeah! Oh I seen a "Suffolk Clipper" 2000 Gillig #2001 on on the S92 out in Riverhead Wednesday! One of our drivers had said that in addition to CBS Lines having new 2000 Gillig Phantoms Sunrise Coach has a few too. They look nice but I like the Orions better. LED everything!
D.
Yeah, I have notice more 2000 Gilligs on the S92. The other day I saw bus #2001 on the S92 to Greenport. Then I saw bus #9332 on the 10A. How weird to see a Flxible Metro-B #9332 out this far....LOL!
Ray
Well last week on the N27 I heard a Cummins powered Orion CNG started smoking, well, at least it didnt catch fire. Orions have lousy engine compartments, this seems to be a problem. NYCT has also had problems with fires on some of theirs.
Absolutely. Two 1995 buses, 473 and 543 have already been scrapped b/c they caught fire. 6299 (a 2000 model) may also be a goner. SI bus talkers, please let me know the status of 6299, if anyone knows.
An East New York Driver told me that as of the new pick 3 AM Extras are being cut from the B-42 Rockaway Parkway route.
If thats true then the line is losing 25% of its AM service since they are currently 12 buses in the AM 9 runs and 3 extras
Sometimes the buses are so packed by the time they reach my stop at Avenue J you have to wait for 2 or 3 buses to pass before you get on.
Who in their right mind is responsible for this stupidity
Thank You
Barry, Cutting out of the x's does not mean a service cut . The Ta might be interlinlining those trip with other routes in the depot. simular to the b6/44 interlining that's been going on of a few years now.
Mike Nash is absolutely right. The schedule for the B42 was remade so that the work formerly done by extras will be done by runs instead. Every trip that was there before, will still be there.
"Extra" doesn't mean "extra service." An "extra" is a partial run, i.e. a piece of work consisting of trips that couldn't be fit into one or more runs. In this case, a way was found to put the trips into runs.
David
do you know if the Bx25 uses a lot of extras?
David,
Thank you for the information. But the driver told me that no additional runs were added.
Are the extras being replaced by interlines
My thanks again
The driver was wrong. The B-42 went up one run. An interline with the B-60 was introduced.
David
David,
Thank you for the information
Barry
If this is true then the TA is truly stupid! The B42 is hell in the morning, it gets veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy packed and it a very short route.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Many drivers and union officials don't like to distinguish between the EXTRAS themselves and the TRIPS operated by those extras. The schedule could well have been rewritten to absorb the extras into runs, with NO CHANGE IN SERVICE LEVELS, in order to (1) save money, and/or (2) ensure that the work gets covered.
One word! Artics
Can any one name all the routes in New York City that operate on the same street in the same direction but go to both terminals of the line.
An example is as follows:
Prior to the consolidation of the B-13 and the B-18 bus routes the B-13 operated on Stanley Avenue between Crescent Street and the Brooklyn General Mail Facility as follows:
To Fountain Ave: From Crescent Street,left Stanley Ave,Right Brooklyn GMF Loop,Left Stanley Ave,Left Crescent Street to Cozine Ave(right),Fountain Ave left to terminal
To Ridgewood the B-13 operated via Fountain Ave,Flatlands Ave,Crescent Street,Right Stanley Ave,Right Brooklyn GMF Loop,Left Stanley Ave,Right Crescent Street
BTW-The B-13 no longer does this
The M-14 operating to Abingdon Square or West 18th Street is not correct because the routes have two terminals at one end
Good Luck
Thank You
[Can any one name all the routes in New York City that operate on the same street in the same direction but go to both terminals of the line.]
A few come to mind...
- B17 (Paerdegat Basin trips): Both northbound and southbound trips operate clockwise via Glenwood Road, Rockaway Parkway, and Flatlands Avenue.
- Q27 (trips via Queensboro Community College): Both eastbound and westbound trips loop through the college via 56th Avenue (east of Springfield Blvd), into the college transit center, around the former parking lot, exit to 56th Avenue and return to Springfield Blvd.
- Q102: Roosevelt Island "transition" roadway, just north of the subway station, where the north-south roadways reverse direction.
- QBx1: Both northbound and southbound trips use Bruckner Blvd between Westchester Avenue and Wilkinson Avenue, in order to serve the Pelham Bay subway station.
- Bx8, BxM9: Both northbound and southbound trips loop through the Edgewater Park development along a private roadway.
- Bx12, Bx29: Both eastbound and westbound trips loop through the Pelham Bay subway station area via the New England Thruway southbound, exit 8A, Westchester Avenue, Amendola Plaza, Wilkinson Avenue, and the New England Thruway northbound.
- Bx21: Both northbound and southbound trips loop through the Bronx State Hospital campus along a private roadway.
- X27, X28, X29: Both northbound and southbound trips operate east on 23rd Street between Broadway and Madison Avenue.
- X15, X18, X20 through the Downtown Loop.
- X18: Rosebank loop
- X20: South Beach loop
- QM10: Loop through Rego Park via 63rd Road, 110th Street, 62nd Drive, 108th Street, Horace Harding Expwy, 99th Street, 57th Avenue, Hoffmann Drive.
- QM11: Loop through Forest Hills and Rego Park via Queens Blvd (from Ascan Avenue to 63rd Road), 63rd Road, 110th Street, 62nd Drive, 108th Street, Horace Harding Expwy, 99th Street, 57th Avenue, Hoffmann Drive.
- QM12: Loop through southern Forest Hills viaWoodhaven Blvd, Union Turnpike, Metropolitan Avenue.
- QM21: Loop around Rochdale Village via Baisley Blvd, Bedell Street, 137th Avenue, Guy R. Brewer Blvd)
- Various Queens expresses using any of the following one-way loops...
-- 3rd Avenue between 37th and 57th Streets (QM1, QM1A, QM2, QM4, QM10, QM12, QM22, QM24)
-- 34th Street-6th Avenue-57th Street (QM1, QM1A, QM2, QM2A, QM3, QM4, QM10, QM12, QM15, QM16, QM17, QM18, QM22, X51)
-- 34th Street-8th Avenue-57th Street (QM24)
-- Madison Avenue between 42nd and 57th (X68)
-- Madison Avenue between 23rd and 57th (QM21)
-- Downtown Loop (QM1/1a, QM11, QM24)
Add to that the B13 in Spring Creek, on Stanley Avenue to and from the Brooklyn GMF. Buses operate both to and from Gateway Center and to and from Williamsburg on that street.
In the original post i incicated that the B-13 no longer operates on Stanley Avenue in that matter any more
Thank You
The express bus routes should not really be considerd in Manhattan because they really operate one way. It is true that some of the lines do pick up and drop off passengers especially on the Queens Surfice and Triboro Coach routes.
On all the local routes you are indeed correct but some routes in Brooklyn,Queens and Staten Island have not been identified as yet.
Thank You
M10/20/104 on Columbus Circle between 8th Avenue and Broadway.
This is nowhere near NYC, but the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District's 22 Illini route is a complicated loop that runs along the same stretch of Illinois Street three times per cycle, once eastbound and twice westbound. Signage is important! Here's the map.
David,
Not really because all 3 routes just go around the circle but do not cross paths
Thank You
They certainly do cross paths. They run in both directions on the short section of Columbus Circle between 8th Avenue and Broadway on the south side of the circle. Follow the lines carefully on this detailed map.
The M5 and M7 don't cross paths, and I didn't list them.
During the summers, the Q35 loops through Riis Beach complex.
What about the B6 and B82 between East 96th st and Rockaway Parkaway station (E/B through station loop only.)? Both lines also run on Rockaway Parkway from Glenwood to Flatlands in the S/B direction.
The X63, X64, and X68 are also candidates in Manhattan.
The QBx1 has several different routings through Co-Op city that overlap each other. One might go to Section 5 first (by Earhart Lane), another bus might visit Section 5 last before returning back to Pelham Bay Station.
You are correct on both the B-6 and B-82 which operate between Flatlands Ave/E.96th Street and Glenwood Rd/Rockaway Parkway.
But no one mentioned the B-11 which operates both ways in the same direction on 2nd Avenue between 53rd Street and 55 th Street
and the Q-88 which operates on Junction Blvd between Horace Harding North and Horace Harding South Service Roads in the same direction.
Thank You
I assume that the 90 day period will be up very soon for the NYCDOT Privates. The question is will the MTA come in and take over? And will it be starting on April 1?
And what buses will be used? Any details would be helpful.
#1602 BXM7
The takeover is tentatively set for the 12th of Never. At that time, all will be sunshine and happiness.
At Liberty Lines we recieved memos stating that the TA take over of Liberty Lines Express are just rumors and that Liberty Lines will do their best to continue operating the Express service. In the event of a take over we will be notified well in advance. This is not something that can be done overnight. With the exception of NYBS all the privates should be operating "as is" on April 1st. From what I was told NYBS may get another 3 month extension.
Peace,
Kevin
Goodie! I'll have a chance to ride on some more GMDD Fishbowls and Classics.
#1602 BXM7
Eye don't think NY Bus Service WANTS another extension.
And Mayor Mike isn't going to beg them to take one, because he just doesn't care :-(
I've heard numerous rumors where I work (Clara Hale depot) from several operators, dispatchers and union reps that NYBS will be taken over by OA soon. Dont know all the details about equipment, operators seniority, etc. I also was told by a AGM that OA is planning to purchase more express buses (MCI'S) to cover these express routes.
All rumors nothing set in stone.
There is stuff going on within the TA.
One of the union reps. here also has heard some stuff. You hear enough from different source, it begins to get scary.
Roger seems to care almost as much about this as Mayor Mike :-(
Why is it that whenever there is a subway shuttle that requires buses do none of the SI depot buses are used?
Do they have the option to pick them or not??
The Staten Island depots are part of a different union than those in the other four boroughs, so I think that may have something to do with it. OTOH, the only rail shuttle which could concievably involve Staten Island depots would be a SI Railway shuttle.
Staten Island doesn't have a subway system operated by the NYCTA.
Re: Queens Plaza - Subway Shuttle
Posted by Brooklyn67 on Sun Mar 2 23:41:26 2003, in response to Queens Plaza - Subway Shuttle, posted by regent23 on Sun Mar 2 22:35:54 2003.
Each borough receives G.O. priority. A small-enough G.O. in Queens will be serviced by depots in Queens. A larger G.O. will be serviced by all available depots systemwide, usually offering the "home borough" the largest allotment of overtime.
Who operates the Staten Island Rapid Transit subway? Not the MTA?
Not the NYCTA, as I stated earlier.
I attended some of tonight's public hearing in Rockville. Since I have other things to attend to, I will post full details later on. The Ride-On hearing, originally scheduled for tomorrow, has been postponed until April. No date has been determined.
Not much to mention here today, did see an Orion VI running on the 84(this route ususally use 30' buses), it was 2036, I think. Also saw 5304 running on the 52 right after 9812 left, this was during the midday when I saw these observations. The BIG observation came when I got to Federal Triangle. As I got onto 10th street(Federal triangle), I saw the fuel cell bus leaving the area turning right onto constitution avenue. That was the good news. The bad news was that I was behind 2202 and it was moving slow and by the time I got close to it, it went passed the light at green and the light changed to red when I got there. At this intersection, you can't turn right on red here, *&@#$. I would have tried to take a pic, if I caught up to it, as I had my camera with me. I never caught up to it and lost it somewhere on constitution Avenue between 12th and 14th streets. Also the weather was nice today, but unfortunately I had to work, double #$@%^#, and tomorrow, I am off and it is supposed to be crappy out there, triple #@$!%.
i Been Clocking the M50 and at 8:30 everyday Nova #9283 in on they to day i this is what i saw
#146 - M50
#153 - M50
#162 - M50
#8605 - M50 - LED Lamps
#8666 - M50 - LED Lamps
#9274 - M50
#9283 - M50
What with All these Express Orion & Nova On the M50
This morning, I'm watching Good Day New York and they were talking about the MTA Fare Hikes. They showed buses during the interview with NYS controller Alan Hevisi. They showed the following:
NovaBus RTS-06 #5043 on the M66 probably around the Hunter College area.
Then the went back in time, they showed GMC RTS-04 #2650 on the M4 to The Cloisters (had the MV sticker on it so this must have been after 1992 since MV re-opened on November 8, 1992).
Then they showed something weird....GMC RTS-04 #3878 on the X14 (I thought this bus was repainted because of the number "3878" was smaller...the way the numbers are today. It was not...why? The next bus was GMC RTS-04 #2622 (the number on the back of the bus was at the lower left hand corner...not at the top like today. Once that bus passed, I saw GMC RTS-04 #1799 about to pull out of the bus stop. MEMORIES!!! I saw the backs of buses #1799 and #2622 so I did not see their destinations although we all know bus #1799 was express. I also saw the back of bus #3878 but with the box in the back, I noticed the "X14" very brightly. Almost as if it was new?
Then to top it off, I saw GMC RTS-04 #1312 pulling into a bus stop passing an older double-decker bus from New York Sightseeing Tours. I assume that bus was NOT express during that time (1993 maybe?)
Ah, memories of Manhattan back in the 1989-1993 period. I remember the 2600s and 2700-2704 dominating Manhattan during that time with the 3800s flying by in the background (express trips I mean).
Just thought I share that with you guys. Maybe you saw the same thing too.
Enjoy!
Ray
Ah, the wonders of file footage ...
JD
1799 and 1312 were always express buses. the former from yukon and the latter from castleton. i believe 1298-1314 were the first rts suburbans.
Actually it was #1298-1317, but I do believe bus #1312 WAS local during that time FOX 5 showed it this morning.
Ray
1316 was also converted to hard seats before its retirement from castleton about 2000. thats what got me confused. thanks for the correction.
In yesterday's Daily News they had a pic of PA2694 and a r40 slant on the orange Q.
#1979 X17
I have been riding the B-82 route frequently lately and have some proposals that the TA should consier to improve this route:
1-Limited service should be implemented in the same manner that is currently operated in Queens along the Q-20/Q-44 route.
The B-82 should make Limited stops only between Bay Parkway/86th Street and Kings Highway/Flatbush Avenue. The B-82 should make the following stops:
Bay Parkway/86th Street-connect to M and W subway as well as the B-1
Kings Highway/Stillwell Ave-Transfer to the B-4
Kings Highway/W.6th or 7th St-N Line connection
Kings Highway/McDonald Ave-F Line connection
Kings Highway/Ocean Parkway
Kings Highway/Coney Island Ave-B7,x29,B68 transfer
Kings Highway/E. 16th St-Q Line as well as the B2,B31 and B100 routes
Kings Highway/Ocean Ave-B 49 and Command express routes
Kings Highway/Bedford Ave
Kings Highway/Nostrand Ave-B 44 transfer
Kings Highway/Ryder Street-Flatbush Ave-B7,B9,Q35 and B 41 transfer
During the hours that the B-82 makes limited stops the TA should revise the B-5 Kings Highway route which will operate between Ryder Street(Flatbush Ave) and to Stillwell Ave Terminal to make local stops that the B-82 will not make.
The benefits if this plan if implemented is as follows
1-The B-5 will have no traveling time as the route will swing near Ulmer Park and will not have as long dead head time as the B-82 has.
2-It will reduce operating costs on the B-82 as some runs can be cut because of the implementaion of the B-5 route.
3-Because of the current makeup of the B-82 the heavier ridership is on the west part of the route which is the old B-5 route. Approx 90% of these passsengers do not ride the B-82 east of Flatbush Avenue.
In order for the TA to cover the western part of the B-82 it requires runs to pull out on the eastern part starting at 4AM so that could return from Canal Ave starting at 5 or 5:30AM when most ridership begins.
4-Currently because of the long length of the B-82 there is considerable bus bunching because of delays that can occur along Kings Highway between Coney Island and Ocean Aves and along Rockaway Parkway in Canarsie. By having a short turn at Flatbush Ave service reliability can be greatly improved.
5-If a local B-5 route is implemented than service can be reduced along the entire B-82. Because the B-82 is duplicated by the B-6 between Ralph Ave and Rockaway Parkway a reduction will not readily effect ridership because they is ample B-6 service.
6-During peak hours a short tune B-82 can operate between Starrett City and Rockaway Parkway which can actually improve service between these points especially if there is a delay between Canal Ave and Rockaway Parkway
7-Yes there will be a slight reduction of service on the B-82 between Flatbush and Ralph Aves.
8-Travel time can be improved for the B-82 ridership between Coney Island Aves and Starrett City because of the Limited Stops that the B-82 will make. I have noticed that most B-82 ridership between Starrett City and Flatbush Ave do not ride past Coney Island Avenue.
During late night hours apporx 11PM and 5AM the B-82 can make all stops and the B-5 route would not operate.
BTW-To have the B-7 make local stops for the B-82 will not work because the B-7 will be much too long even if the B-7 is transferred to Ulmer Park.
The B-7 ridership is a different base than the current B-82 ridership
Any comments
Thank You
Doesnt the B82 have one or two short turn buses at Flatbush Ave? I believe this is in the AMs. Why not extend the limited to Rocakway Pkwy?
B82#4976
Also, would this plan work if the Limited route operated between Ralph and Williams Avenue bidirectional? (There is B6 local and B60 service to make up bypassed stops.
B82 #4014
2.00 to ride a bus or train soon. Now lets complain, and complain loud!! Lousy dirty buses and then there Fresh Pond garabage.
It's $2 for those few people who are still paying by individual trip. As to "Fresh Pond garbage," outside of bus buffs, who knows one bus from another? The damned thing shows up, people get on and off it, and it goes to the next stop. That's all anybody who isn't a bus buff (and that's nearly the entire population of the planet) cares about.
David
As to "Fresh Pond garbage," outside of bus buffs, who knows one bus from another? The damned thing shows up, people get on and off it, and it goes to the next stop. That's all anybody who isn't a bus buff (and that's nearly the entire population of the planet) cares about.
Amen!
I understand that you guys have preferences for certain buses, but quit thinking that you and your depot are genuinely "getting screwed" by not getting the newest buses in the fleet. Someone here offered a very logical explanation as to why certain depots often end up with older buses. MTA does not do it with the motive of screwing anyone over. If one depot has shorter routes, it just makes sense to assign older buses there. And it's not like these older buses are light-years behind newer models. They are still modern vehicles with many of the exact same features found on newer units. It's not like FP is getting rikshaws while KB is getting Van Hool T-2145s! These are all RTSs we're talking about here, and while there are minor improvements from model year to model year, they are essentially the same thing! MTA might not do everything perfectly, but they don't do everything wrong either.
Also, you people in NYC need to be thankful for the overall good condition of your fleet. Compared to other big cities, New York's buses are in excellent condition - the 3900s and 4700s included! With a few notable exceptions, large transit systems let their buses go to complete $#!t after a couple years, and at systems like that, the older buses really do suck, but this is far from the case in NYC.
And the bottom line of all of this is that average passengers can barely tell the difference. Regardless of depot, MTA keeps almost all of its buses reasonably clean and in above-average condition. A workaday passenger doesn't care that 3997 is 17 years old as long as it's clean, safe, and in sound operating condition. And passengers cannot even tell if a bus is slow or fast! They don't care! Put 3489 side-by-side with 9692 and you'll see that most average riders probably wouldn't know which one is newer (aside from some 'permanently updated' features like improved destination signage).
Stop complaining about perfectly good RTSs. Come to where I live, where we have model year 2002 buses that are already falling apart.
Um, the 3900's in Fresh Pond are in terrible condition, and Fresh Pond is Waaaayyy behind the other depots when it comes to the average aged fleet. People who ride the B43 and B48 could probably tell the differance between the buses you see on these routes.
I don't think they can. David is right. Nobody cares what style/year/model/number bus comes along, as long as it comes. Trust me.. that's all they care about.
your right. in the nineteen eighties i drove fishbowls that were literally falling apart. rts buses are all so called advance design and even the oldest is still much better than the fishbowls were. the fare will rise may 4 and you had your chance to complain.
Been a while since I talked about the junk RTS. I agree with ya on that one Ridgewood however we know that, most of the public DOES NOT & David is right, they're still moving and that's what the public cares about getting from point A to B.
I remember riding 1755 on the Q17 and a 3800 on the M34 about two years ago; in both instances, someone made a remark about these "new" buses with plush seats.
Exactly right. 99% of people don't know or even care that they may be on an old bus. In all actuality, a vast majority of the 46 and 4700's in Fresh Pond are in pretty decent shape. Of course, some people will always think all of Fresh Pond's buses are "garbage". I guess it's the same as the way I think that bustalk has at least one bustalker who is nothing but "garbage" to this board. No names mentioned of course...
BIG AL
Why complain? Since Monday,Bee-Line commuter's have been paying $2 if they had to transfer to another bus.($1.75=25cent transfer fee) So I think in due time,we'll get used to it.What I think is that the TA should get rid of the current fareboxes and put in new ones that will except dollar bills.Hell you've seen these fareboxes that have a metrocard sticker pointing to the slot where the metrocard should be put in,that spot right there is where the dollar bill slot should've gone.It sucks that we always gotta use coins and no dollar bills to pay the fare.I think we're the only transit agency that doesn't accept dollar bills.THIS SUCKS!!!
Yeah, I didn't believe it wen I heard that NYC only used coins for the fare. Anyway, we down in philly have been paying 2 dollars for the base fare for a while now. You eventually get used to it. Besides, maybe there might be discounts for the metrocard and such. Hardly anyone pays the base fare anyway, and you can get major discounts on fares with tokens, transpasses, etc.
MBTA buses do not take dollar bills either. Local bus fare is .75, which is one of the lowest local base fares for a major transit system in the country (if not the lowest). Subway is $1.00 base fare, by the way. However, express bus fares can run as much as $2.75 on the T, so if you pay that in cash that's a lot of change to drop!!
Mark
Why complain? Since Monday,Bee-Line commuter's have been paying $2 if they had to transfer to another bus.($1.75+25cent transfer fee) So I think in due time,we'll get used to it.What I think is that the TA should get rid of the current fareboxes and put in new ones that will except dollar bills.Hell you've seen these fareboxes that have a metrocard sticker pointing to the slot where the metrocard should be put in,that spot right there is where the dollar bill slot should've gone.It sucks that we always gotta use coins and no dollar bills to pay the fare.I think we're the only transit agency that doesn't accept dollar bills.THIS SUCKS!!!
Hah, I'm not putting my $2.00 to ride a damn 3-9 in Fresh Pond. I will have to keep myself exclusive to 1990 buses and newer when this happens.
AH live here in septa we been @ 2 dollars since you get use to it. After a while i soppossed! It beats paying $2,50 ah!
The fare hike is needed anyway. It's inevitable.
Welcome to the club... I'm still convinced the $2.00 fare on SEPTA is a rip-off (even compared to NYC Transit). Now there's talk that SEPTA may lost about $10-12 million in funding from Harrisburg (and I highly doubt that a lot of mismanagement jobs will be cut - do the math...).
I don't mind paying $2 to ride a Bus. I rather have good service and buses that run well rather then haveing bad service and haveing a bus that breaks down way often and parts breaking apart
Well guys May 4 is the big day of PAYING MORE to travel! I think it should of went up a quarter but can't do nothing about it unless something happens. I could handle the hike but I think its crazy.
More heavier patches of snow moved through this afternoon as the wraparound moisture continues to envelop Long Island.
Now we got 4 inches, hopefully it will taper off soon. Roads on the North shore are a mess, snow and ice covered and very slow going, especially on the 2 lane roads.
The LI Buses were very screwed up, I didnt see any N21's at all, and the N27 was running 15-20 minutes behind schedule. From what I hear, the north shore got hit alot harder, conditions in the Garden City area were much better.
yep there could be a posible for more on tuesday-thursday next week so
This winter is the most snowiesr in years!
Well I've gotten alot of use out of my old "Steel Shank" big green boots, because since few people shovel their sidewalks around here, I always have my feet in the snow.
And remember, those who dont shovel will face the wrath of this angry pedestrian! :-0
While make sure you have those boots ready for next week or so. I know that many states are on low funding with salt. And this winter is the snowiest in 7 years and the coldest in 25 years. But by later next week Finaly spring is await for us With temps in the mid 60s to 70. Let hope that happen my self am sick of the cold and the snow so far philly receive 42.2 inchs of snow! greez
spring occurs 3/21/03. you can still have snow in april. the buses have been doing pretty good this snowy winter. yesterday was the worst with the undercoating of ice.
Well the roads were still awfully icy up here this morning. Loads of traffic. Took 30 minutes to go 3 miles this morning, cars were backed up all over the Glen Cove peninsula.
(sigh)
We hope the NYCMTA takes over LI Bus so that QTrainDash7 can stop the nonstop bickering about them. Yeah I dislike the Orions aka Onions but you know what-you have to deal with them if you like them or not.
#329 N20
for all those fans who miss buses of days gone by, here is your chance to catch up. I have been taking pictures of buses for the last 10 years, and now i can share them with you. Each week, i will be posting buses from MTA-NYCBUS,LIBUS,Suffolk Transit,CAT(Las Vegas),MTA(Mobile,AL) and Chicago(PACE AND CTA). The first picture is TMC RTS #4899. Saw this at Yukon Depot on 7/4/93. Have not seen it in service so im assuming its been permantly scrapped. Hope you enjoy.
WOW....got any old Pace or CTA photos with Flxibles? I'd like to see those!
-F.
How old is 4899? Sure looks banged up there...
-F.
4899 is a 1987 TMC RTS (4600-4899).
Wayne
4899 was returned to service after this accident and is now on the rosters as scrap. I'll look in my archives but I believe I have a pic of this bus on the S53 at 4th Ave and 86 St. I'll let you all know later or tomorrow.
#4897 S53
it was scrapped due to engine problems. yukon maintenance felt it wouldnt be worth the money to repair. nyct bigshots agreed.
Thanks, caine824. Is that 4898 (which has also been shredded) behind it? Also, it looks like that bus died right there. If that bus was repaired and then scrapped, I would have just written off that bus and stripped it for seats (heck, it may have supplied #146 with its current seats, along with 4898).
This one is my favorite. Remember the Blitz buses? This one was assigned to the S78 in 1993 when i took the picture. #5205 looks really sharp. I miss these.
Next week:LIBUS.
Out of curiosity, why is the rear end of the bus cut off and the entire photo blurred?
You'd prefer he didn't share his work? It isn't like he's charging to view it.
The picture is NOT blurry. I'm seeing a decently clear photo, even if the sunlight isn't the greatest. So what if there's maybe four inches of the bus's ass cut. At least he didn't post just the front end of it from the far side of an intersection -- or have cars in front of it, like all too many bus fans sent me when I was trading bus slides (and had them promptly returned due to their lousy shooting).
Thanks for sharing the photo, caine824. It's a nice shot.
Picture looks great to me. Though the back is sort-of cut off but that's not bad either. Check your graphics card if the picture is blurry. Yeah I remember these on the BX31 back in 1993. When I went to Transit Tech High, I use to take the first bus on that run in the morning to 233 and White Plains! Which happen to be a Blitz Fishbowl. Those were the days.
D.
Nice pic! I remember that bus (Joe Saitta back me up on this) at MTA LI Bus. That bus had a "smokey" problem if you know what I mean. Now that bus is sitting in the scrap yard in Riverhead next to Tanger Shopping Mall...the one that I always talk about. That bus is next to GMC New Look bus #5244 and #5401-5403. Ah, memories!
Ray
Ray, Blitz 5205 was once at MTA LI Bus. I seen it one time either on the N78 or N79.
Yeah come to think of it I was doing an ADA run out there in Riverhead and as I was driving along Rt25 I seen the yard throught the trees! Yup There is a "MSBA" fishbowl sitting there with the windows gone as well as other buses. I might take a trip out there Sunday to get a closer look.
D.
What's an ADA Run? Where you doing the S58 Line?
Nice memories there. I miss those Blitz fishbowls.
Wayne
I went food shopping today, and went to wait for the Southbound BX8 at Williamsbridge Road and Boston Road. I saw several buses heading North, but none South. I waited 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 3 scheduled buses never came. I finally had to take a cab. Does anyone out there know what happened? This was between 2:30PM and 4:00PM.
The snow night have been to much for the route. Is this stop on top of a hill, if so that the buses might not have been able to clime up it. I do not know the Broxns at all, I drove in Brooklyn from 5+ years, and I do not work any of the subway line that go up that way ether.
Robert
ICE possibly.
As a subway buff, I've never given much thought to buses, but now I'm starting to get interested. Can anyone tell me how to identify the model of an NYC bus? Is there a list anywhere that matches pictures to models? I know there are very small differences in some buses. Some have that newer "face" that is straight and has the bigger, brighter route sign. Some have seats with rugs, and some don't.
I'm even noticing very small differences in the articulateds insides, even though the outsides are the same. Tough to tell them apart!!
Go to Trevor's sit at www.transitalk.org. He has mostly pictures of buses, from around the states and soon over seas.
Robert
The Majority of NYCTA busses is the RTS model which is manufactered by GMC, TMC, and NovaBus. There are many others where u can identify by the badge on front of the bus.
Well, first of all, there are different buses built by different manufacturers. NYC Transit has a large number of the RTS model (built by GMC, then TMC, and finally by NovaBus), many of the boxy Orion V bus, growing numbers of the New Flyer D60 articulated bus, New Flyer C40 low-floor buses, MCI commuter cruisers, and soon to be many of the Orion VII low-floor bus in both CNG and hybrid variations. There are also a few examples of 'oddballs' like the Orion VI fully low-floor bus and the New Flyer Viking commuter cruiser. You will also see many of these same buses plus the MCI 'Classic' buses operated by the NYCDOT bus operators (N.Y. Bus Service, Liberty Lines, Command, Green Lines, Jamaica Bus, Queens Surface and Triboro Coach).
My suggestion would be to print out a roster from Trevor Logan's TransitTalk or the Urban Transit Club website, and then take it with you as you ride the buses. See if you can identify and spot the differences between the various models - even a common model like the RTS changed over time and has noticeable differences. Then, come back to this board and post your observations and questions.
And have fun!
Jim D.
How old is this bus? , It was on q32 today and was pretty good.
You don't even know how old the 8000-8396 series is? They are 1990 RTS's, which makes them 13 years old.
Actually, they're 12 years old. While they are, in fact, 1990 buses, they didn't come in until 1991!
David
The plate in these buses where the date of mfg. is listed lists the buses as being made between 02/91 and 05/91. These buses are 12 years old, but not near retirement with the repowering program in effect.
Apparently things weren't going my way today and in fact that when back to the day before, when it was sunny with 68 degrees and I had to work. Today, it was rainy and cold and I also had to be on a conference call, which delayed my normal bus trip by two hours. I decided to still do it, in hindsight shouldn't have.
The day started off well enough with me getting 8815 on the F14 to New Carrolton. When I got on the bus there was only one person on the bus and I made two. Another person got on later and when the bus arrived at New Carrolton and there were including me three people on the bus. A couple of minutes later on the other side of New Carrolton came 9757 on the R12. This bus's engine was really loud, and it doesn't sound like the L10 it came with, it now sounds like it was replaced by an M11 engine. Anyway I got to Greenbelt and got a couple of minutes later 4393 on the B30 on route to BWI Airport. After I got off the B30 is when my troubles began.
THANKS FOR NOTHING MTA
I was about to catch the light rail, so I was about to purchase a one day pass, so I put my $3.00 in, and...... no ticket came out. I waited a couple of seconds and still no ticket. So I called MTA.....
a couple of times with the operator connecting me to a person who was on a lunch break. Apparently he is the only one who handles problems like this and I don't know why, these ticket dispensers have always have had problems, but this is the first time it affected me. A couple of other people paid at this same dispenser and got the same effect. I had already missed one train and had to get off the next train to get the pass. AT THIS TIME I WAS GETTING REALLY PISSED!!!!
I got to Patapsco Light Rail Station and caught BaltMTA bus 9227 on the 51 going towards North Avenue. Enroute to North Avenue a truck ran a red light as the bus was crossing the street and we nearly got hit by the truck, the bus stopped in time, or rest you would have seen my puss on Baltimore and maybe DC news. I remember saying this before. I was going up to Walbrook Junction to take some bus pics and got to the intersection of North and forgot the other street and promptly caught 9526 going towards Walbrook Junction. Unfortunately nature called so I had to find the facilities which took me about 30 minutes. Well I tried to call MTA and finally got the person who handles this matter and he told me to come downtown and pick up my refund. COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. When I got downtown, I waited 20 minutes only to get a VIP day pass, FOR TODAY, and it was getting close to 4 o'clock and what good is that going to do me. Ticked off and hungry, I ate at McDonalds which I had to eat outside because there were no places to eat in the restaurant, with the upstairs and basement eating area closed. On top of that pigeons started to surround me with one getting close to me looking at me, like he wanted something to eat, sorry Charlie, I am angry and hungry. After eating I cut the trip off by going down to catch the light rail back to BWI and go back home. I got to BWI and within minutes caught 4395 back to Greenbelt. This particular run was crowded with the bus picking up passengers before going to its final termination at the industrial park and then coming back to catch anyone who just got there. We got slowed down by some traffic on the BW parkinglot.
After a while we got back to Greenbelt and prompty got the 15X (The Bus) back to New Carrolton. This particular driver put the X in express as he was flying down Greenbelt road. He practically cut the trip in half, oh btw the bus was Thomas SLF 63032 the 35' bus. When I got to New Carrolton, I could have sworn I saw 8971 on layover at New Carrolton. If what I saw is true, it might be the first time these buses came back since a couple of years ago. That would be great to have these buses back again. I also saw 9833 and 9835 running on the C28 and B29 respectively. I got 8808 and took it home. I think I got the same driver I got when I went to work on during the first day of the big snow storm a couple of weeks ago, don't know for sure, hopefully they gave her some days off after that.
Anyway that ended my day hopefully it will be warmer next week and things go better with my nextbus trip or else yall might think Ozzy Osbourne invaded BUSTALK with the words I am about to say if it happens again.
Does anybody have an Ozzy translator? LOL!
#1979 X1
LOL!!! SHARON, they took my (bleeping) three dollars. I am so (bleeping) mad I could bite their (bleeping) head off.
What the f@*$ are you talking about? Ozzy cannot be f*#&ing translated...how DARE you f(*$ing try to understand what the f*&( he's f(*&ing talking about....LOL! Nothing like a good Ozzy joke. Wonder if he bites the heads off of Red Birds on the "Crazy Train"? :)
-Fred Donaher
Celebrating the Bus Sabbath
Wow, Wes, what a day! Are you going to write a letter? Its probably not worth it, but for all that hassle, you certainly should have gotten more than a VIP pass for the same day.
That almost happened to me at the ATM this morning where i heard the mechanisms inside working, my card came back but no money. So, I'm sitting there debating what to do since it was still running and running, but luckily, my money came out. I did pull up to the same ATM once where someone left their money in and their receipt was sticking out too showing the exact amount, so I returned it to the bank. It was $100 and right around Christmas, so they must have been in a rush shopping. Stupid people. Yeah, it could have been very easy for me to take it, I just couldn't do something like that.
On an MTA light rail note, once at the BWI station, the train was sitting there and I rushed to get my ticket and I wondered why I got all this change back, but didn't pay attention to it until I boarded: I had bought a senior citizen ticket by mistake. Since I have never seen any police do fare inspection, I took my chances and rode round trip for $.90. Oops : )
How luckly! You rode cheap! Not even a Fare Enforcement in sight! Cool!
Yea, it wouldn't make sense to write a letter. They would probably give me a day pass for the same day again. It seems like either one or both of those machines at BWI are not working. One time I had to go to BWI Industrial Park station to get one, having to wait for another train to get one.
For the second one... LMAO!!! Hey if an cop did catch you, you could always say you look young for your age and that you are 70 and ate well. That may work. I have been on a train two times where there was a cop and both times I was ok, I usually buy a day pass so I could ride without worry. I did see them catch one man who thought he was slick, he was wrong.
Yeah, I didn't know what I was going to do if they started checking! I'm sure the worst that would have happened was they'd make me get off and buy a regular fare ticket instead. I don't want to tempt fate twice and just purposely buy the senior fare again! I'm sure there are a fair number of joyriders in the downtown section that just hop on for a few stops and then get off. They may as well make that a fare free zone as a lot of cities with light rail already do.
Ahh, the adventures on mass transit!!! : )
So how did you like riding the Flxibles there? I am so jealous of you...I REALLY want to ride those, especially all the pre-1988s before they are retired. I may get my chance; some local busfans are planning to take a trip to the MTA Roadeo coming up soon. Anyone else here planning on going?
-F.
Is the public allowed to attend those?
As far as I know, they are. I am going with some folks from a bus line that invited our transit museum, so perhaps we are just "official" due to that. Does anyone know if it is public?
-F.
That would be cool if it is. Do you know when the roadeo is supposed to be? I'm going to the University of Maryland one on April 12. Its to celebrate their 30th anniversary. Alumni and current operators were sent out an email. Not sure if I can actually drive one of the buses though.
I think that is when the Roadeo is...I'll check to make sure. If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me here.
-F.
They are fun to ride, and I have ridden most of the series except for two which are the 8500s and the 9400s, I more want to ride the 8500s since they are due for retirement, being replaced by the Neoplans, still coming in.
I am wondering how long it takes a bus from having its old engine replaced and the new engine to work. I am asking this because, I think some of WMATA's L10 engines with I believe M11 engines. They sound different than what I am use to hearing on these buses.
Hmm maybe they give it the bus another muffler! Anyway it take about a week to retrofit a engine. Engine sometime's sound complety diffferent than the others! :)
Flxible in US...
Baltimore, MD (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / Allison V731)
Chicago, IL (Detroit Diesel 6V92 / ZF4HP500)
Cleveland, OH (Compressed Natural Gas Bus Cummins C8.3)
Columbus, OH (Cummins LT10 Voith D864.3)
Los Angeles, CA (Detroit Diesel 6V92TA / Allison V731)
Monterey, CA (Detroit Diesel 6V71 / Allison V731)
Nashville, TN
New Jersey, NJ
Omaha, NE (Cummins C8.3 / ZF 4HP500)
Pittsburgh, PA
Portland, OR (Cummins LT10 / Voith D863.3)
San Francisco, CA (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / ZF 4HP500)
San Jose, CA (Cummins LT10 / Voith D863.3)
Washington, DC (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / Allison V731) at Pentagon
Westchester, NY
PS..
Gillig Phantom
Minneapolis, MN (Cummins ISM / Voith D864.3)
Gillig Phantom
Vancouver, WA (Cummins ISL / Voith D864.3)
Orion V
Milwaukee, WI (Detroit Diesel 6V92 / Allison HT748)
Orion V
New York, NY (Detroit Diesel Series 50 / Allison B400R)
Enjoy~
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Who doesn't hate any particular bus...
ah i like your movies of the NABI onboard 1 of 8 2 of 8 etc can't wait until 3 i wondar if it will be on the e-way :)
Nice photos BTW!
Thanks man:)
The 3rd clip will be on the I-580, though the distance was short, the driver still drove fast, which was nice~
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Good do you have any expressway movies clips
Sure...also with great scenery and busy streets...
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Great stuff!
By the way, do you use a photo scanner? If so, what model?
Jim D.
Nice pictures....even that yellow and grey beast down at the bottom!!
Yeah, I was very surprized to see them in Emeryville, CA...usually there are much lesser frieght trains in the Bay Area than in Southern California...
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Gillig Phantom
I love that little bus! My mom calls them toys! CBS has the best running Flxibles and maybe ICMC has some good ones also. Ours are shot to hell. But I still love those too. When they go up for the County auction I think I'll invest in the best one the county has... Maybe.
D.
very cool pic. I was on #9340 from Inter-County COach on the S29 on Friday. it moves fast.
Yeah SBC #9325 is a fast mover but to bad it doesn't have any heat!
D.
So that's how the Flx Metros look in their "old school" colors....neato. How many of these are in the newer scheme, a la the Orions?
-F.
Nice shot of the NJ bus. I love the fact that you got a shot of a SOUTH JERSEY bus, not the North Jersey buses. The cameo appearence of the Flyer is a nice touch.
I was in Philadelphia when I took the pic....I should have ridden NJT from NY down to Phila instead of Greyhound...oh well...
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Gillig Phantom
I should have ridden NJT from NY down to Phila instead of Greyhound...oh well...
Nice thought, but you probably would've had a long journey if you took NJT instead of GLI. I think the fastest way from PABT to Philadelphia using NJT is via the 139 to Lakewood then transfering to the 317 (though if you want to see all three Jersey toll roads, you could take the 319 to Atlantic City then transfer to the 551 to Camden and Philadelphia).
If anyone would like to pick up these '79 Flxibles that smell of animal feces and urine, give the University of Iowa Department of Parking and Transportation a call. Make them an offer, who knows!
They have about 319-359 thousand miles on them.
Mike
Wow for old Grummans they look like they are in great shape. Could use a little cleaning up and some of "Gunk" Thrust Quick Starting Fluid to get 'em started again and possibly a battery boost.
D.
I don't know, with those it's hard to tell where the dirt stops and the old buses begin.
On the other hand, here are some 1986 Gillig Phantoms that are nearing 600,000 miles and still running strong:
Cambus #87 571,834 miles as of January 1, 2002 (over a year ago)
Cambus #88 561,918 miles as of January 1, 2002
These buses from San Antonio, Texas certainly held up better than those Flxibles from Cali which never cracked 400k. Two of them never cracked 350k!
Mike
Thanks for the pics..:p
Yes, here in Bay Area, AC Transit and Samtrans are still using their 1983-1984 Gilligs on their Transbay routes and express routes.
Although AC Transit is planning to retire those buses along with the 1988 NFIs D35HF, D40HF, and D60HF once the Van Hools arrive, there are no plans to see Samtrans will retire them sooner or later even the NABIs came in.
Now compare that to Golden Gate Transit 1000 series GM RTS and VTA's 1984, 1986 Flxibles and 1988 RTS, which all have been retired the past two years. At least I wanted to point out that this shows Gilligs can be used that long as compared to other transit buses.
Sorry for the poor quality due to insufficient light inside the terminal, I will definitely take more pics before they're gone...
1476@OX1
1481@O
1483@O
1545@NH
1546@57
9861
9891
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Gillig Phantom
Good pics. Some of those SamTrans Gilligs are just SCREAMING for Alcoas though...they are a vast improvement on those buses.
-F.
You mean the Cambus Grummans were originally California buses? And I never thought anyone here would mention a Gillig outlasting a Flxible!
-F.
Cambus aquired their 1979 Grumman Flxible 870s in the summer of '94. The "VIN" numbers are 90492, 90488 and 90470. I was told by someone at another board that they were ex-Orange County 2043, 2061 and 2065.
They were in they shape that they are pictured in since I worked at Cambus starting in August 2001. They got those two high-milage Gilligs in the Summer of 2000, that might have been when the Flxibles finally went off the road, but it may have been earlier than that. Someone told me when they were retired, but I can't remember.
Mike
But why would they retire them after only 7 years? New buses come along, or did they get more used? What a shame to waste them.
-F.
Sort of like what BT did with their TMC RTS's. That's sad :(
BT? Do you mean Blacksburg Transit? They recently booted their TMC RTS fleet for New Flyers and have mothballed their Flxible Metros for the same. Sad. :(
-F.
Yes I mean Blacksburg Transit. New Flyers are good but what Blacksburg did was kill 2 Birds(Flxible Metro and TMC RTS) with 1 stone(New Flyer Low Floor)
MAN, I'd love to have one of those...wonder what they're bidding for and how long they have sat?
-F.
BEAUTIFUL Flxible Metro pics. I'm in love with all of them!
-F.
Does this still exist as a TRAINING BUS? The last time I seen it was about 2 years ago, it was parked in ENY Depot. Is it still used?
It's a mobile chemical-awareness classroom.
I half-expected "just received Fresh Pond stickers and a farebox and went into service on the Q58" :^)
I have seen it in ENY even as late as early 2002 in the middle of the garage, but based on the TransitWorld Roster on utcny.org, it is now in JAM. I'm not sure of its purpose.
Does anybody know when and where Busfest will be held?
Michael
Washington, DC
Trying to stay warm
Simple question....
WHERE were the bus numbers on the rear of the NYCTA & MABSTOA Grumman 870's??
I know where the front and side ones were -- and remember the Circle-M logo centered on the engine tailgate...but have no recollection where they put the bus numbers on the rear end.
Thanks for the help if anyone can provide it. I'm doing a modelof one for somebody in NYC.....
On the back in the middle. For example, the NovaBuses have the third light in the middle? well, the number was right below that on the back of the Grumman Flxibles. Hope that helps. Check out www.transitalk.org and go to the NYCTA pics section and go to the Flxible Corporation. You should see a pick there with the number in the back.
Ray
Thanks very much....
Last night I saw a paper from operations planning detailing the planned alignments off bus routes with the planned closings of Hudson and Amsterdam depots and the planned opening of West Farms and 100 St.
Dont remember all the new route assignments but some interesting highlights I did notice:
The new 100St all artics with the 101/02/03 and the M86 crosstown
MTV will get the M10,M11,M104,M98.
MCH will get the M60's back keep BX33 lose BX19,BX21.
MCQ will get Q32 still split with Casey Stengal
126 will keep M35, and M116
Many more especially in the Bronx but I can't remember them all.
What was the date of that proposed alignment
It may have been made prior to the proposed takeover of the DOT routes was discussed.
I do know that if the takeover of the DOT routes happen Amsterdam Depot will remain open. This was told to me by a high DOB official
Thank You
That's CRAP! Why does MJQ get the Q32. The Q32 should be 100% CS! Okay for the M10, M11 and M104 to MV 9after all, M10 and M11 were with MV to begin with before MJQ...well M11 was split with HUD).
I assume the M20 is staying at MJQ?
Ray
well with the m104 going to MV will the orion buses go there from amsterdam?
I was going to same the same thing for the Q32 but at MJQ
I guess the m100 headed kb.right
It would make sense that the Bx19 and Bx21 go to Coliseum. Presumably the Bx6 and Bx15 are going there as well. And if the M100 goes to KB, the Bx32 should go to MCH. BTW, if TCC is taken over, the M60 should go to that yard @ 82 St and 23 Ave. And are the M96 and M106 going to 126 or 100? Also, there was no mention of the M79 bus. Is that staying in Quill, or going to 100 St? I presume that the M8, M9, M14, and M22 are going to Quill as well.
There was no exact date listed for the document, and considering all the delays for the planned opening of these depots none of these plans may take effect this year. However Hudson must be closed soon due to the westside highway reconstruction. The M20 and M79 are planned to remain in Quill depot. I also have heard that NYBS operation will be transferred into amsterdam depot but that is a big rumor. There is no mention about how equipment will be split like Amsterdam buses going to MTV, etc. Didn't see where the M100 will be going but KB makes the most sense.
mr mabstoa, before kb closed for renovation and the M100 was shorten to its current terminal from 262st in the mid 90's it operated from kb . Logigly kb i the closest depot to northern end of the line and it would make sence to put back there when wf opens on there is room. But most likely it will end up in mv. Also another line which should be out of kb is the M4 again the location of the north end of the line in close then mv.
It would be easirer to put the M5 out of KB (they need to only go up Broadway) and they would have a shorter deadhead than the M4, which must come back to 181 Street from Fort Tryon Park.
If the New York Bus Service Routes are indeed taken over by the TA the routes will be assigned to Gun Hill Depot. I was told by a top offical in the DOB. He also told me that Amsterdam Depot which was to be closed when 100th Street and West Farms(Colusieam) reopen later this year will remain open.
I would like to speculate where the Manhattan and Bronx routes should go when both garages reopen and Hudson closes and if the NYBS routes are indeed taken over:
126th Street-M15,M31,M35,M57,M60,X90,X92,M116
Manhattanville-M3,M4,M5,M11,M18,M96,M98,M106
Mother Clara Hale-M1,M2,M7,M10,BX 33,#3 SHUTTLE
100th Street-M79,M86,M101,M102,M103
Michael J. Quill-M6,M8,M9,M14,M16,M20,M21,M22,M23,M27,M30,M34,M42,M50,M66,M72,GRAND STREET SHUTTLE
Amsterdam-BX 6, M100, M104
Kingsbridge-BX1,BX2,BX3,BX7,BX9,BX10,BX13,BX18,BX20,BX41,BX55
West Farms-BX11,BX14,BX15,BX16,BX17,BX19,BX21,BX22,BX27,BX34,BX35,BX36,BX39,BX40,BX42
Gun Hill-BX4,BX5,BX8,BX12,BX25,BX26,BX28,BX29,BX30,BX31,NEW YORK BUS SERVICE EXPRESS ROUTES
I believe that the x-26 will be interlined with the Brooklyn Express routes which currently operate out of Ulmer Park.
Again this is speculation on my part
Any commnets
Thank You
Gun Hill-BX4,BX5,BX8,BX12,BX25,BX26,BX28,BX29,BX30,BX31,
(sigh)
That sounds like "a" plausible depot assignment for the Bronx routes. However, my understanding is that West Farms will NOT be able to house articulated buses; if the Bx22, Bx39, and Bx40/42 go there, they'd have to use standard buses.
More likely, all the artic routes would stay at Gun Hill. Maybe some of the "BxM" routes could be assigned to West Farms. (At least the BxM6 is close enough.)
- - - - -
As for the X26 being interlined with Ulmer Park's expresses: That's been asked before, and "David" explained that it can't be done because the first Brooklyn express arrives at 57th Street too late for the start of X26 service. Any interlining would have to be with Staten Island routes (the first X1 gets to 59th Street before 5:00 AM), but those buses are still needed back in S.I. for their second trips.
Thanks for being so generous to 126 but there's no way in hell that we'll ever see the M60, X90 & X92. Bastard stepchildren never get treated nicely.
Don't forget under my plan 126th Street will lose the M-66
I believe that the M-60 and the x-90/92 will be equal the number of runs that the M-66 has
Thank You
Why move the 86 but not the 79? I think 100th Street would be closer to both 79 terminals than MJQ.
Of course, if the M79 stays at MJQ, maybe we will get our standard buses back (wishful thinking).
This is especially for the Ridgewood bustalkers. Coming home early this morning, at 1:00 AM, I saw 1986 GMC #4390 on its last run heading northbound @ Pennsylvania and Stanley Avenues. I am also aware that Big Al doesn't like to put out non-Novas after 6:00 pm. The question is: What time did this bus pull out of FP, and why was it that a 17-year old ex-KB bus on the road this late? Is there a bus shortage at FP? (ENY also had some 1986s out at about 10:00 PM last night; I remember seeing 4416, which looks as though it'll stick around; it has the new Empire plate on it.)
No, Fresh Pond is not short on buses. Did you get the run number? This was not a bus that I sent out after 6pm so it was most likely something that was on the road all day, although I may have sent it out between 4 and 5:30pm. I really don't remember. What I do know is that no 4's went out after that time. Most likely if it went out early, it was a bus that was passed to several operators during reliefs, and if it went out between 4 and 5:30pm, then it means the B/O decided to keep it during his meal which would keep that bus on the road till late around the time you saw it.
I am on vacation now until 3/17 so don't hold me to anything you guys may see on the road during the evening hours. I must say I am looking forward to some nice R & R.
BIG AL
Have fun on your vacation, I head back to work tomorrow 3/9. I can't wait, this one was a major HUNNY DO vacation. It was the first time that I did not have to watch my daughter durring the day bacauce she started shool on Monday. My wife had me running around and cleaning the house all week. Dame I do less work at work then I did at home this week.
Robert
Oh yeah, today I spotted both the 3902 and 3997. 3997 was at Catalpa and Seneca, and 3902 was at Palmeeto St. What's even worse was I seen mostly pre-1990 buses on Palmetto St., and my B13 had at least 4 of them! I ended up riding the Q58 just to get something better(the 5058).
I also saw a 4300 on the B20, it was 4367. FP was crap today. Maybe because Big Al doesn't work on Friday's.
To answer your question, the bus you saw was probably parked at the front where it ends up being pulled out for service. With so many old buses at FP, its not possible to keep every single one stored at the back of the depot. Sometimes the Novas are parked in places where they can't be used for service. FP isn't that short on buses, but it still has less than its suppose to.
Will FP ever break the 4 year drought? All of this is going to change when Maspeth Depot opens.
5.) The NovaBUS Curbside Safety System - After passengers disembark the bus through the rear door, they are often placed very close to the roadway. As an effort to keep folks away from the dangerous road, each time the bus pulls away from a stop, it gently pushes folks inward with the rear bumper. A NovaBUS tradition.
4.) The NovaBUS Automatic Brake Release System - In case the driver accidentally sets the parking brake, never fear, it will automatically release, without driver intervention. Only from NovaBUS.
3.) The NovaBUS Driver Massage System - Simply drive 40mph, and bus will vibrate just like a massage chair, soothing the drivers back. Now a standard feature!
2.) The NovaBUS Driver Hydration System - During the summer months, drivers no longer have to worry about getting dehydrated. A/C conveniently designed to drip ice cold water on drivers forearm. A first in the industry, brought to you by NovaBUS.
1.) The NovaBUS Courtesy Wash System - Turn on windshield washers, and nozzles conveniently drench car in next lane over, giving them a free car wash. Works especially well with Convertibles. Now available with Extended Duration spray!
hehe 40mph ah try top speed
>hehe 40mph ah try top speed
Actually, it only does it at 40mph... after 45 its fine again.
At least you have a bus topping 40MPH. Consider that..
hehe yea 40mphs on some buses is a gift some can not even reach 40mph.
I've never rode a transit bus that was incapable of 40 mph on a straightaway unless there was something mechanically wrong with it, such as a blown turbo, cylander or the DDEC engine protection was engaged.
NYCT has governed the fleet. Some are governed to as low as 34 MPH.
W/o giving numbers or garages, I can say that Queens division has governed some of its buses to 36 mph, which the drivers complain about for legal reasons. Also, isnt that illegal if a bus needs to be taken to Detroit Diesel (or in the case of 581-610, 9140-9149) Cummins via the highway? Buses need to go at least 40 on a limited access highway.
IN nyc the way trafffic is you can set a bus with 6 gears to 30mph and still stay up with traffic. How many gears does the NYC artics have?
6
If they have 6 gears do they ever reach there top speed?
If they are governed, no, they won't ever hit top speed.
im mean like if it has 6 gears it will take a while until it reach tp speed. I don't get it if the ta govern a bus that goes to 40 mph with 6 gears in all that why not make the gears shorter . Or why not govern the gears on it to like 4 gears. Anyway when they regovern a bus what exactly to they do?
BTW i mean the govern speed like sopposed if it has a allision b-500-r 6 gears tranny that means thaat the gear would co that this
7= MPH=1st-----
10 MPH= half of gear in 2nd a torque connection (if you hear allision trannys you know what i am talking about)
15 MPH=2nd----
20 MPH=3rd----
25 MPH=4th----
32 MPH=5th----
40 MPH=6th----
by the time it reach 4th @ around 20mph it will be so slow that a person that was walking can keep up, also it won't make it up a hill. As matter as fact it won't go anywhere @ all.
Isn't the six gear an overdrive gear that doesn't affect the shifting? I was told that the PAT Neoplan Low-Floors have 6 gears, but, the 6th one is an overdrive gear that is locked out. Thus when you hit the D button, the '5' lights up and it shifts like a 5 speed bus. Essentially it is a 5 speed bus. I have yet to see an Allison bus that lights up a '6'...
Even if a bus does have 6 gears and the ratio you described, you could still govern it down. Simply lock out gears 5 and 6 and the bus won't go much faster than 25-28 mph.
on some buses it is i saw a allision keypad with a 6 before the reason why yall buses have a 5 light up becouse the ta must have have lock the 6th gear complety out do to govern reasons. i mean soppesd if a ta is dumb enought to govern a bus with 6 gears down to 40mph.
Come on out to southern California and look at Orange County D40LF's 5301-5397, 5401-5420, and D60LF's 7201-7210, 7301-7320, 7401-7420.
They all have a selector that shows "6".
Yeppe and the There LA MTA both the newflyers and the Neoplans all has "6" and they are all ungoverning to!
It is strange that PAT ordered the Neoplans with a six speed Allison when they never planned on using that 6th gear. I was told that the buses were delivered from Neoplan with the 6th gear already locked out. These buses shift just like a 5 speed transmission which means they the gears were most likely changed to a five speed config on all 160 units. That sounds like a lot of work, especially when they could have just put in a 5 speed Allison instead.
hmm not really they could always make the 5th gear ratio shorter which makes it has sound like 5 gears will sound right on that tranny and set the ddec to 65mph to make it seem like it has only five gears if PAt what's to make those buses for all expressway use expect to see a 6 in that keypad and it will pick up way faster to. do to the ddec being change.
Our 1995 and 1998 NFI D40LF's came with the overdrive, and they'd do a top speed of over 80 miles an hour!!!
Our shop locked out the overdrive....one of the maintenance foreman told me it was just a matter or reprogramming the computer for the transmission. It's not one of those situations where the transmission must be opened, disassembled, etc. It's all in the electronics nowadays.
Oh, and with the overdrive electronically locked out, they still do 67 miles an hour tops!!!!
Hmm forgot you don't need to manual reset gear ratio correct all you need to do is to set the ATEC computer? COOL make overhaul much easier
You can set the transmission to shift at different speeds, you can lock out overdrive, etc. through ATEC. But it doesn't make overhauls any easier -- you still must disassemble the tranny for an overhaul.
oh i see so WTEC is like the Same thing!
I think DART First State's new NABI buses - high and low floors - have an active 6th gear, but I didn't really pay that much attention to the gear box. I think I saw a 6 in the indicator, but I'm not 100 percent certain (I may be heading back down that way next week, so I'll double check).
I STILL don't get why the MTA governed some 1995/1996 Orions, 1997 Novas and 1999 Novas to 35-40mph top speed :-\. That's pretty stupid IMO, I understand the Artics is max 40mph b/c they're long.
A decision was made by people in Department of Buses management that, since the speed limit on most streets in New York City is 30 MPH (a few higher, and some lower) and most NYCT buses don't travel via highways, there is no need for most NYCT buses to be able to move at high speeds. Governing the buses was viewed as a safety measure by a very safety-conscious organization.
David
Yea but for a artic that is pretty slow when i am roding on septa artic which they are govern to 65mph they are very slow. I can just image a nyc artic can only do 40mph on the rode it may never reach 30mph.
Again how many gears does the keypad said for the ones limit to 40 mph?
W/o giving numbers or garages, I can say that Queens division has governed some of its buses to 36 mph, which the drivers complain about for legal reasons. Also, isnt that illegal if a bus needs to be taken to Detroit Diesel (or in the case of 581-610, 9140-9149) Cummins via the highway? Buses need to go at least 40 on a limited access highway
It only takes about 3 minutes to hook up the computer to the DDEC and reset the governor.
hmm if you reset the govern don't you have to manualy reset the gears on the transmission . Our do yall just tweak the final driver ratio.
I saw buses with a bad turbo before and it rode back down a hill when the driver try to press down the pedel a bus w/o a turbo has like 180hp. is that anought for a artic..........
Nope.
I can see a bus doing 40mph now on the jersery turnpike.
>hehe yea 40mphs on some buses is a gift some can not even reach 40mph.
Our RTS busses have been goverened to 55-60mph... (although a few can hit 65) however, the top speed limit on Disney property is 50mph, so there's no real need to go any higher.
Drivers report the LFS can do about 74... I suppose they didn't govern it because they knew they'd have to take it to the Detroit Diesel dealer so frequently, on 65+ roads. LOL
-Tyler-
if you put a dd50 in it with that tranny it and setting it right that could become a all of the time feature!
LOLOL!!! Imagine if nova actually marketed those items!
>LOLOL!!! Imagine if nova actually marketed those items!
Lord knows the bus has no other selling points.
It only puzzles me as to why some TA's have actually bought these things....
Do you actually enjoy driving those buses (as opposed to the RTS 04s and 06s at Disneyworld)? Seems as though only you and Quebec properties actually like them!
>Do you actually enjoy driving those buses (as opposed to the RTS 04s
>and 06s at Disneyworld)? Seems as though only you and Quebec
>properties actually like them!
Oh, we don't like them... Drivers hate them, mechanics hate them... I personally can't stand them... The first shipment we got in has USSC seats, which are absolutly horrible... rock hard, always broken, wobbly... very uncomfortable. Makes my back hurt. (2nd and 3rd got Recaros which is thier only saving grace) The mirrors are crap. Can't see squat, and never adjust properly. And nothing ever works on them. Just today, I had to turn down 3 guests in scooters because my ramp wouldnt deploy. Stop Engine light is coming on constantly because the bus can't handle Florida heat.
Give me a good 'ole RTS anyday. We actually have a few 03s as well, and surprisingly, they're not bad. They're rock solid, have zero blind spot mirrors, and they run 10x better.
I swear, Hughes of Orlando (towing company) must have been jumping up with joy when they heard we got our third (and last) shipment in.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Were they jumping for joy because the last ones came in, or because they may be heading for scrap in a few years? I hope NovaBUS rots for discontinuing both the RTS and the Classic bus lines! Then again, they may already have been shown the error of their way!
>Were they jumping for joy because the last ones came in, or because
>they may be heading for scrap in a few years?
They (the towing company) was jumping for joy because it meant more business for them... The LFS spends more time on a flatbed than it does under its own power. I remember one day, I saw the flatbed truck following an LFS... as if it just waiting for it to die. lol
LOL!!! Like a lawyer chasing after an ambulance, or a tow truck chasing after a Yugo.
Is this familiar to you?...
COTA Nova LFS 9904 @ Downtown Columbus, OH
A Sick COTA Nova LFS with A Healthy Flxible Metro
Though it was a flatbed truck, it wasn't a private towing company, but a COTA tow truck...
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
Stop Engine light is coming on constantly because the bus can't handle Florida heat.
You gotta love sitting an wobbly seat, with water dripping down on you while listening to the musical buzz of the Stop Engine light, while cruising down the road at 8 mph.
I remember once I was riding with a PAT operator that I know and I went along with him on a coach change after we got to the end of the line and his run was over. It was for a NovaBUS Classic in Aliquippa that decided to let all of the condensation from the A/C drain inside the bus rather than outside. Since PAT buses have no A/C-Heat shut off switch, the operator couldn't shut the A/C down. We brought that unit an Orion 5 and took the Classic htat had puddles all throughout the bus as it was practically raining inside. On our way back to the garage I tried to pick the driest spot to stand. This is not the first time I've seen this happen in a NovaBUS Classic, but, I've never seen or heard of it happening in any other bus. Maybe your LFS coaches will start doing this as well! Things to look forward too.
I still love my Classics, but, NovaBUS didn't do the greatest job of putting them together. To bad GM and then MCI gave them up. Leave it to NovaBUS to screw things up.
Don't those ramps have a manual deploy feature? The Neo LF and the New Flyer ones that I've rode have a stap attached to the ramp so that if it malifunctions, all you have to do is flip the switch to manual and pull out the ramp yourself. That's supposedly one of the great selling points of a low-floor, that a wheelchair never will get passed up again. What pieces of junk...
On the Gillig Low Floors that Des Moines has, there is a tool on board each bus to deploy the ramp manually in case of a failure. This is on both the telescoping and flip out versions.
LOL....Yeah,all those extra features are well known here with the CDTA System.. but did you know about the new Passenger Back twister?It engages everytime a bus runs over a pothole.The bus shakes in such a way,jars a twist the riders,that you fell like you walked out of a gym. Great bus!
Not Top 5 Reasons Why I Love the Nova LFS, but Things You'd Never (or rather Would) Say to a Nova LFS. The only reason why a bus should not be able to go over 40 mph is if there is a governor engaged (and in NYC, artics are governed, along with some RTSs and Orions). Why doesnt Prevost Car just junk this lemon, it seems to have come out just before the dot coms (wait a minute, thats not a stretch)! Oh Im sorry, the Nova LFS seems like it wants to bend w/o turning now! NYC tested 3 of them, thank God they are now only employee shuttles for Bridges and Tunnels. Imagine those buses on NYC streets (Disneyworld must have very good roads, or so I think).
ENY Nova 5205
>Why doesnt Prevost Car just junk this lemon, it seems to have come
>out just before the dot coms (wait a minute, thats not a stretch)!
>Oh Im sorry, the Nova LFS seems like it wants to bend w/o turning
>now! NYC tested 3 of them, thank God they are now only employee >shuttles for Bridges and Tunnels. Imagine those buses on NYC streets
>(Disneyworld must have very good roads, or so I think).
Indeed, it's a heap of crap. You would think that Prevost, who builds a solid, quality product, would have some influence on the heap that NovaBUS produces.
Our roads are well maintained, however, there are a few rough patches. Because of our Resort status, Reedy Creek usually does a fairly decent job of maintaining our roads, and keeping them beautiful.
Have you ever noticed the Nova LFS bears a strong resemblance to the early 90's Van Hool A330 europen transit bus? Of course... I'm sure the Van Hool is 1,000x higher quality, and a more solid bus.
Speaking of which, anyone hear how the 2 demo units are faring over with AC Transit? I was on thier website earlier tonight... I do have to say, the new A330 and AG300 look to be really nice buses. And if they carry the same quality that their Motorcoach brothers have, then they'd be really great.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Also remember that Prevost is co-owned by Volvo. Check out this link: http://www9.volvo.com/bus/product_offers/our_buses.asp
If the link doesn't work, just try volvo.com and click on buses and then products.
Notice the LFS & RTS are on their chart, although the RTS isn't in production--obviously not quite up to date.
The other co-owner of Prevost is Henleys Group PLC (henleys.com) of the UK. And actually, I think Volvo holds something like a 10% stake in Henley's. They own Blue Bird in the US (financed by Volvo), but also a 30% stake in TransBus (transbusint.com) which seems to have absorbed Dennis (dennisbus.com) and some other manufacturers. The Mayflower Corporation (http://www.mayf.co.uk) owns the other 70% of Transbus.
To make a long story short, it seems like the parent companies need to send down some expertise. Or better yet, how about some proven bus chassis. Turn NovaBUS purely into a body builder. If they could focus on that, maybe they could get something right.
Mike
i dislike governs it same now only if it effact the top speed but also the way it pick up . I wondar if a bus govern to 34mph can go up hill.
I saw a 49xx series RTS bus on a flatbed heading out to NJ off the the GWB today. Im not sure, I think the number was 4967.
An educated guess. The bus may have been heading to the Detroit Diesel facility in Lodi, NJ, and will be back shortly if it looked fine. Did it have any heavy damage on it?
No damage to the bus.
Again nothing special sighting wise, did see 9732 heading towards the Landover garage, don't know if it was going in for a repair or going to Landover as a loaner. I also spotted 9256 on the L4, sans a bike rack. One other thing, I have been seeing alot of Western bus 4304 and it is always on 30 route. Last Sunday I saw it on a 30 route heading towards southeast. Wednesday, saw it heading towards Friendship Heights in downtown and today passed it as I was heading towards Lafayette Square.
SIGHTING OF THE DAY
I might have been the first to spot one of these and if I had known 100% it was one of these, I surely would have followed it. It was a 2460, moreover 2462 on the D6 heading towards Stadium Armory. I was at H st just passing 14th street and about to pass New York Avenue when I first saw it. As out light changed green, it stopped past the intersection of H and 13th streets, so I took a glance and there it was about to take off. I was unfortunately in the left lane as I couldn't follow it. When I got to 11th and E? streets, it passed, and even though I had my window down, I was too far away to hear the engine. Oh well, I will hear it soon enough and ride it soon enough.
The past two interesting bus sighting have been around Federal Triangle, I wonder what I would see next around there, a hybrid?
I wonder what route the hybrid was on? That's very cool that you were able to spot it. Federal Triangle and K St. especially around Farragut Square, is a really good busfan spot. The only bus you probably wont see there is a Neoplan, but if you walk a couple blocks down to 16th St., it may show up on the S line. Otherwise, you'll see the New Flyers, Orion VI (38B), Orions of all vintages and Flxibles (except the 35 footers).
You finally saw your 2460's!!! I can't wait to take another bus trip in DC and ride more New Flyers around.
Well today,3/7/03,I finally did my trip to CT.I heeded a couple of warning's from Bustalker's about Norwalk Mall and checked out the Stamford Town Center instead.I left my house at 9:30AM and took the Bx6 OrionV #6114 to Yankee Std then transfered to the D train and took it to Fordham Rd.From there I hoped on the 61 bus;Orion V #479; to Port Chester which was 5 mintues late,got to Port Chester at about a quarter to 1 then I took CTTransit bus route 11;NovaBus TC Classic #9632; to Stamford then on I went inside to the Stamford Town Center.
It looks very good.Very elegant.There wasn't too many stores that peeked my interest so I just looked around quickly,ate lunch and left.
Going back I took the I-Bus;NF D40LF #130; to White Plains.The ride was excellent!Those D40LF's are wickedly cool!I love em!We soared through I-95 and I-287 like it was nothing!Then from White Plains I hopped on the 62 express bus;Neoplan Artic #541;to New Rochelle.That was yet another excellent run on the highway.Give those artic's credit.They're awesome.Anywho,then at New Rochelle I waited for the 66 bus.This was my first time on this route and I liked the trip.It was pretty decent.I got Flexible #802 for this trip on the 66.I got off at Main&Cedar Sts in Dobbs Ferry and waited about 10mins for the 1C to show up,another Flex this time #871 and went all the way to 242St where I hoped on the 1 train and went home.
Overall it was a very exciting day.Well a exciting/hectic day.I slipped and fell while I was walking from the TransCenter to the train station to go to the restroom.I didn't realize I was walking on a small section of solid ice on the street till I slipped and fell.Lucky for me I only came away with a barely noticeable scrape on my finger and a bruised left knee which still hurts.
My next CT trip will be to CT Post Mall in Milford.I'm going to take the Metro North to New Haven then take the O2 bus to the mall.From there I'll take that Coastal Link bus to Norwalk Mall,take the 41 to Stamford then the I-Bus to White Plains and finally either the 1W or the 3 to 242St and hop on the 1 train home.It's not gonna be anytime soon though.As of now I only have $40 left and I'll lose a big chunk of that on the MN itself with having to pay $11.50 one way from 125St-New Haven.Well if anyone wishes to come with me on this next trip,your more than welcomed too.But like I said,it's not gonna be anytime soon.
Hi. Does anyone have the assignment coverage for the shuttle from Woodlawn-Bedford Pk.? This job starts Sat.,3-15, for three wknds,(6a-10P).
I hadn't planned on going towards Pentagon City until tonight, but I had to make quick stop this afternoon. As I turned off S. Hayes street into the Macy's area, I saw the back of a Flxible parked in front of the Pentagon City Metro station. On the back, it read "ATW Potomac Mills Shuttle". After I dropped off what I needed to, I quickly turned back on Hayes and got a better look at it. It had the NJT type standee windows on them and it was numbered 3169. It had a white roll sign on the front that said ATW Potmac Mills as well. I think this may have been the one WES saw on 395 one time. For some reason, that number sounded familiar. It may have still been in NJT colors at that time even, but they've 'repainted' it to have the Potomac Mills logo on it.
It looks like it has seen better days, but I still may need to take the bus to Potomac Mills sometime to check this out.
If 3169 was a NJ Transit bus, it was part of the 1989 order of 96 inch Flxibles with suburban seating (3000-3280). As more MCI Cruisers came in during 2002, some of the 3000 series Flxibles were sold off, but many are still running here in New Jersey.
Thanks for the info. I wish I had just pulled off to the side and paid more attention to it rather than just driving past it, but it was one of those things that took me completely by surprise. I saw NJT's 3169 on Trevor's website and the number style was the same as on this ATW Potomac Mills bus. Now I just can't remember if the unit number was on the left or the right. On the NJT bus in the picture, the number is on the right front side of the bus.
There are still quite a few 3000s running out of the South Jersey garages (Newton Av and Washington Twp), with only a handful of Metro D Suburbans (3700s) showing up sporadically on the Newton Av lines (404, 405, 407 mainly).
We have a ton of them at Fairview . I had 3166 today
T.B.
AHA!!! That is what is what that bus is in service for. I wonder what that bus was for.
It's kind of odd that there would be a shuttle running from Pentagon City to Potamac Mills when PRTC have a similiar direct route to Potomac Mills from the Springfield Metro Station. I wonder if they charge for the one that runs from Pentagon City Mall. Sounds like a pic and bus trip opportunity here. That strange bus that was from a while back that I talked about about a while ago I believe ran the same route as this one.
I had a feeling that's the one you were talking about. I'm not sure if they charge or not for it. I think this bus runs to Rosslyn Metro if I'm not mistaken too and then makes a stop at Pentagon City. Maybe it runs only on weekends when PRTC doesn't run? I tried looking up information on it, but couldn't find a whole lot.
Potomac Mills is served by PRTC/OmniRide Prince William Metro Direct service from the Franconia-Springfield Metrorail terminal. There is only weekday service on this line. The only mention of shuttle service on the Potomac Mills web site is as follows: "Shuttle service available from area metro stops." It doesn't mention where, though.
CHATHAM SQUARE TONIGHT
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BusTalkers are welcome, too!
Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in at or after 7:30 PM ET! If you have mIRC (reccommended) but do not know how to access the room using it click the link and then click on "How to get mIRC". If you want to get mIRC, follow the same instructions. Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
..............Note TO MIRC USERS IF THIS CHAT ROOM HAS NO OPERATORS IN THE ROOM YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE ROOM UNTIL A OPERATORS IS IN THE ROOM IN THE MEAN MEAN I STRONGLY SUBGGEST THAT YOU USE JAVA INSTEED OF MIRC!
..............Note TO MIRC USERS IF THIS CHAT ROOM HAS NO OPERATORS IN THE ROOM YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE ROOM UNTIL A OPERATORS IS IN THE ROOM IN THE MEAN TIME I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU USE JAVA INSTEED OF MIRC!
For a fee, the NYC website is offering photographs of any dwelling you specify. The photographs, according to the website, were all taken in 1940 for tax purposes. If you lived in a home built in or before 1940, it should be available.
The fee is $25 for an 8x10 print. If you don't have the BLOCK# and LOT#, add $5 for the search. (I'm sure there is a block/lot lookup somewhere online).
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doris/html/tpof.html
I went up again to see what was going on with the General Order Service disruption in the Bronx. Got on the B82, transferred to the B41, and then boarded the #2 train before transferring to the #4 train. The work was being done @ Jackson Avenue station. These were the buses I saw, depot by depot:
Quill: 9639, (5173: 1st bus I was on)
FP: 9574, 9584, 9141, 5073, 5058
MV: 9002, 8997, 8783, 8281, 8805
126: 9196, 8238, 5034, 9219, 8237, 9198
JG: 8683, 8539, 8533, 8092, 8522, 8556, 8456
KB: 5487, 5500, 5481, 1080, 1076, 5447, 1072, 9682, 5442, 5428,
GH: 410, 9449, 9480, 8062, 5355, 5275, 8059, 8085, (5307, 4th bus I was on), (5401, 3d bus I was on)
HP: 8227, 8481, 9530, 9531
FB: 9405, 5116, 5106, 5103
Hale: 6030, 186, 6041, 6046, 6014
UP: 9336, 9083, 4792, 9312, 9332, 9097
ENY: 8938 (more on this, read on), (5235, second bus I was on), 5215, 5017, 5246
The first bus I was on was 5173 (express), and it left with 5487. 5173 is NOT governed in the least! Once the driver got past heavy traffic on 149 Street toward the Deegan and entered the highway, this driver drove down the Deegan and Bruckner as though there was no tomorrow, leaving poor 5487 behind chugging along at 40 mph. The bus possibly reached 65 mph, based on the engine sound. The second bus was 5235 (local). This bus nearly hit a CS bus by the Bronx Zoo before realizing the light was against it, @ E 180 Street and Devoe Avenue. It ran another red light at Southern Boulevard and Jennings Street.
I then went back to E. 180 Street on GH #5401 (local). It was crowded to the brim until it reached Third Avenue. This bus was uneventful. The last bus I was on was 5307 (express). This bus accelerated very well, but all artics are governed to 40 mph.
I then took the #5 train, transferred to the W, and took the B82 home. What made me bug out was that I ended up on 8938 (the same bus that was in the Bronx just 2 hours before, going up to E. 180), now in Bensonhurst.
9036 B82
8338 B41 local
6476 #2
1615 #4
5173 express Quill
5235 local ENY
5401 local GH
5307 express GH
8931 #5
4517 W
8938 B82
I see there's only 6 Orions used in this shuttle. Where all of the Orions where on the Express shuttle?
At least half of them were. I had seen #6046 just going OOS and heading back to Hale nearby.
Hey, I went on the shuttle bus on Saturday, what time did you go? I rode the Rockaways shuttle bus yesterday but I had no paper so I can't give the bus numbers for that :-(. However since I haven't posted in a while I'll post the trip I took on the 2 shuttle bus on 3/1.
I won't get into detail since I'm trying to catch up but I'll sketch it out.
Driver of 8078-bus capped at 40mph[haha LOL!]
Driver of 9578-he busted ass, the fastest of all the drivers I had
Driver of 8503-did good but 9033 passed us and left us in the dust
Driver of 4854-did good with the old TMC
Driver of 5367-did good
Driver of 5115-did good and the engine going over 50mph on the Bruckner
The Brooklyn drivers held it down :-)! BTW, all the buses I rode were express buses, the local is TOO time consuming. I know y'all missed my shuttle bus stories ;-)
All the buses I saw [this is from 3/1]. Enjoy!
ENY: 4960,4990,5002,5021,8902,9033
UP: 4854,9079,9088,9328,9332,9333,9340
FB: 5104,5115,9412,9438
JG: 4643,8520,8525,8531,8540,8547,8550
FP: 8008,9161,9174,9578
126: 5050,7540,7544,8446,8472,9208,9217,9227
HP: 8205,8500,8503,9515,9523
GH: 408,409,5292,5295,5342,5367,5390,5410,8037,8078,8089,9229,9244
KB: 1085,4402,4615,4843,4853,5483,5486,5500,9689
MV: 5134,8767,8789,8799,8801,9009
MJQ: 5178,5186,9631,9634
RTS 8688 B8
R68A 5160 (Q)
R142 6680 (2)
RTS 8078 SHUTTLE
RTS 9578 SHUTTLE
RTS 8503 SHUTTLE
RTS 4854 SHUTTLE
Artic 5367 SHUTTLE
RTS 5115 SHUTTLE
Orion 6028 Bx19
R38 4074 (A)
R68A 5174 (Q)
I was there from about 2:30 pm until just before 5 pm
Good, JG sent a 4600 up there, and leave their New Flyers home in Brooklyn. :)
I'm kind of curious why JG didn't send any of their New Flyers or CNG Orion Vs. They only sent the RTSs.
Hi; There is a long-standing policy to use only RTS's on Bus Shuttles.
Is this a JG Depot policy? I know it can't be an MTA policy because if you read the other post on this subject, you will see that everything was used on the 2/5 shuttle-RTS, Orions, New Flyer Artics-everything except the low floors.
JG Will never use they low-floor on a shuttle because that is the bulk of they fleet that why they send the RTS they don't want to risk the LF Breaking down or worse
9099 - B6
9311 - B4
9317 - B64
It's the same thing with JG's CNG OrionV's(581-610) You'll never see them on a subway shuttle either.
Did these buses have the Forest Green paint scheme or were they painted in the red and yellow scheme? Also, were these buses placed on regular service like M1, M5 and other local routes?
Ray
P.S. Can someone post the roster by depot for the GMC New Looks. I'm looking at www.subwaywebnews.com and I noticed that buses #1001-1114, #3738-3742 are mostly in Brooklyn. I tried to find this info in the BusTalk archives but I can not find the link. Thanks in advance.
If you are referring to the NYCTA's 5301s, the buses had a plain Forest Green paint scheme, along with unpainted aluminum. Very simple - no trim or belt lines. NYCTA never had a red and yellow scheme, only Surface Transit on a few of its old Macks and GMs.
In 1960 MABSTOA did not exist and NYCTA only had five local Manhattan routes - M1 (Madison/Chambers Sts, today's M22), M3 (49/50 Xtown, today's M50), M7 (65/66 Xtown, today's M66), M11 (York Ave, today's M31 but excluding the 57th St. portion, which was 5th Ave. Coach), and M15 (1st/2nd Aves., same as today). If I remember correctly, the 5301s were used on all five Manhattan routes, but most often on the M3 and M15.
The M1 and M5 (today's route #s) in 1960 were part of Fifth Ave. Coach, which had a group of 5301s that were painted an attractive bright green and yellow.
Be more specific of which bus company had the red and yellow scheme. No NYCTA or OA new look bus was ever red. Surface Transit and the Ave. B- East B'way Bus companies had buses in red where the latter had red new looks, GM & Flxs.
As for the TA depots during the new look era, I don't have precise info of where the new looks started new. Remember also that many were transferred from depot to depot at times. Most if not all the 1000 series were at Fifth Ave. (now called JG). FA also had the lower 3700's and maybe some upper 3600's, UP had upper 3700's to lower 3800's, ENY had something like the mid 3800's. I think CAS in SI had the lower 3600's, 126 St. had mid 3600's, FLU (CS) at one time had mid-upper 3600's and 3900's were at JAM. Then for most of the 1970's FP had 1100-1130, 3660-3699. The original order of newlooks, 1-190, may have been at FB. Correct me if possible.
Well that's a partial list at least.
When they were new in 1963, Crosstown had in the range of 3750 to 3820 if memory serves.
Be more specific of which bus company had the red and yellow scheme. No NYCTA or OA new look bus was ever red. Surface Transit and the Ave. B- East B'way Bus companies had buses in red where the latter had red new looks, GM & Flxs.
As for the TA depots during the new look era, I don't have precise info of where the new looks started new. Remember also that many were transferred from depot to depot at times. Most if not all the 1000 series were at Fifth Ave. (now called JG). FA also had the lower 3700's and maybe some upper 3600's, UP had upper 3700's to lower 3800's, ENY had something like the mid 3800's. I think CAS in SI had the lower 3600's, 126 St. had mid 3600's, FLU (CS) at one time had mid-upper 3600's and 3900's were at JAM. Then for most of the 1970's FP had 1100-1130, 3660-3699. The original order of newlooks, 1-190, may have been at FB. Correct me if possible.
Well that's a partial list at least.
While I was only nine years old at the time, I lived in the Flatbush neighborhood then -- and I remember the really low-numbered 5301's (1 to about 30 or so) would always be on the B41 on Flatbush Avenue...
[I don't have precise info of where the new looks started new.]
The first order (1-190) started new at Flatbush. The second order (501-805) was split between Fresh Pond (lower numbers) and East New York. Eventually, the lowest numbered buses of both these orders migrated to the TA's Manhattan depot.
The next order (1000's) started new at what is now Gleason (Fifth Avenue). The next order (2000's) was split between Flushing and Jamaica.
The next order (3600-3950) was a little more complicated. The first 150 or so buses started new at the Manhattan depot, the upper 3700's started new at Crosstown, most of the 3800's went to Ulmer Park and 3907-3950 started new at Jamaica, making Jamaica the first NYCTA depot to get a second order of new fishbowls.
The next order were Flxibles (5001-5165), and they started new at Flatbush. The follow-up Flxible order was split new between East New York (5600's) and Jamaica (5700's).
Hope this info is helpful.
I'm sure as for Ray, this information was also very helpful to me, thanks so much. I didn't realize FP was part of the 501-805 original order. I do remember during the early 70's seeing the upper 600's to the lower 700's at FP and the lower 500's at ENY. An oddity I saw a couple of times was on #649 which had windows on the lower rear doors.
Also on another note, if anyone gets a chance to see a movie called "Up The Down Staircase" which was filmed in NY during the mid 60's, bus # 3630 was used in an early scene in the picture.
You are right Bill, this info was VERY helpful to me!
Ray
I'm sorry for the confusion. GMC New Look Buses #3101-3220 were with Surface Transit. When Surface Transit end, did those buses go to NYCTA or MaBSTOA?
Ray
[GMC New Look Buses #3101-3220 were with Surface Transit. When Surface Transit end, did those buses go to NYCTA or MaBSTOA?]
Those buses stayed with MaBSTOA for most of their lives. I think some of them may have wound up at NYCTA depots late in their lives, but I'm not very sure.
By the way, my recollection is that 3101-3200 (or so) retained their original Fifth Avenue/Surface numbers; these were non-air conditioned buses. 3201-3220 (or thereabouts) were renumbered, as Fifth Avenue had them numbered in single digits, like 1-20. These were air conditioned buses. Other than old look 3100, these were the only air conditioned buses until the large 1967 order (the 8000's, with bat wings).
Slight error on the original bus numbers: (There were only TEN a/c buses....)
3101-3160 were Fifth Avenue Coach Company (MABSTOA kept these #'s)
3161-3210 were Surface Transportation. (MABSTOA kept these #'s)
1-5 were the a/c buses at Fifth Avenue and became 3211-3215
6-10 were the a/c buses at Surface and became 3216-3220.
Finally to answer the color question, the former FACC and the Surface Transportation new looks were later repainted to Forrest Green as MABSTOA buses. I once had seen a picture on Newsgroups at alt.binary.pictures.vehicles of 3215 on the Q2 at the Jamaica Terminal during Aug. 1971.
Is there is website for that?
Ray
Back in 1973 or 74, the Bx1 and Bx2 would occasionally run these (I'm assuming 5305's) buses. They were green, but they were definately different from what you would normally see in the Bronx during that time. The interiors, although green, were a different shade of green and the texture of the paint was different as well. The seats were not the typical TA seats of the time.
I distinctly remember these buses because they had a/c, but without the wings. These were the only type of GMC buses that ran in my neighborhood that fit this description (the 4800's hadn't arrived yet). I remember that they just showed up out of nowhere, and in less than a year, they just disappeared.
Could these buses be the 3211-3220 that you are talking about?
[Back in 1973 or 74, the Bx1 and Bx2 would occasionally run these (I'm assuming 5305's) buses.]
3101-3220 were all 5301's (unless they were 5302's?).
Do you or anybody on this board have any pictures of 3201-3220? If so, could you post them or email them? Once I see them, I would know if they were indeed them.
Thank you.
You're right. They were indeed 5301's.
Wayne
In the mid-70s,ENY did indeed have the mid to upper 3800s, I for some
reason remember riding 3873 (on the old B10 line), had a cool-sounding engine.
BTW 3601-3950 of course were actually TDH-5303s.
I now have some pics that I have put on MSN Transitalk Community. It is under the name wes2460. Take a looksee and tell me what you think.
How's this for a ring tone. With the advancements in cell phone technology, one can get their favorite song as a ring tone. How's about something REALLY different, bus ring tones. How about riding a bus on a bus trip and hearing your cell phone ring with a Flxible with a 6V92 engine or an MCI with a DD60. Now that would turn heads and make people go, huh?
I would want a ring tone with the 8v71 engine that the Green Lines 1001-1015 had, or the 6v71s and 6v92s of the RTS buses.
We have the X-32 the only Bronx-Queens Express Route but, it runs primarily for school students for Bronx Science High School. No commercial use at all, so I am suggesting two new X-Routes. 1 between Fordham Center and and going into Flushing. So it relieves congestion off the Q-44, and another route between Co-Op City and Jamaica Center through Flushing. I think these routes would be very very nice routes and make good mula for the MTA. Comments, theories?
[...between Fordham Center and and going into Flushing. So it relieves congestion off the Q-44...]
Transit proposed extending the Q44 to Fordham Plaza several years ago; it cost WAY too much, so the idea was abandoned. Besides, the Q44 Limited connects very nicely with the Bx9.
- - - - -
[...and another route between Co-Op City and Jamaica Center through Flushing.]
That sounds like an extended QBx1. Again, the Co-op City link is available through a transfer to the Q44 Limited.
- - - - -
[I think these routes would be very very nice routes and make good mula for the MTA.]
"Very very nice" is not a valid criterion for creating a new route. The only relevant questions are:
(1) How much would the route cost to operate?
(2) How many people are willing to pay $3.00 (soon to be $4.00) to make a trip that can now be made for $1.50 (soon to be $2.00)?
(3) How many NEW riders (i.e. paying NEW fares) would it generate?
Note the wording of the third question - only truly NEW riders are counted. Riders who simply transfer or divert from other routes don't figure into the analysis, since they're already paying fares and thus are not NEW.
Also keep in mind that every public transit agency, including NYCT, loses "moolah" on every passenger carried. No matter how much revenue is generated by even the busiest route, even more money is spent operating said route.
If the MTA spends alot of money on the X-25 which carries 9 passengers per bus, the MTA can shell out dough for new routes. Especially routes which connects areas like Jamaica and Fordham Center and Co-Op City.
The X-25 isn't a line run unto itself (or at least it wasn't when I operated it out of Gleason). The X-25 is a route that is combined with other express routes, such as the X-27, for example. When the X-27 carries a peak AM load into the city, rather than having it deadhead back or swing somewhere, it becomes a scheduled X-25 and may do a trip or two on the X-25 before deadheading back to Brooklyn or swinging elsewhere. The same holds true in the PM peak hours.
This was the case years ago. Is it still the same today?
Yes, it is.
The x-25 still works on the same principal but instead of the x-27 it now works off the x-29
Thank You
If that is the case, then why are certain routes not killed such as the X26? That is not with the Brooklyn Division, as the X25 is.
I believe that the costs of the x-26 are being covered by the Federal government due to the terror attacks of 9/11 as an alternate to the PATH service.
However this is speculation on my part.
If so once the federal funding runs out do not be surprised if the x-26 is either interlined with a Brooklyn express route or is discontinued completely once PATH service is restored downtown which is sexpected by the end of this year
Thank You
PATH service to Exchange Place is to resume this summer. I don't believe that service to the WTC area will resume this year.
I am also under the suspicion that the X26 will be discontinued when or shortly after PATH service to Lower Manhattan resumes and its primary purpose is to "fill in" for the PATH.
PATH service will indeed resume to a temporay station at the World Trade Center by the end of the year. The temporary station is the old Hudson Tube Station that was used prior to the construction of the World Trade Center complex in the 70's.
Thank You
For those of you coming or interested, I have updated that page with the following:
Slight itinerary page
Cherry Blossom Contingency Itinerary posted
Walking distances for both cherry blossom locations
Please click here for more information.
P.S. to Dave if you read this, no need to change the Upcoming Events page. Thanks!
I got this message from Amtrak.
"Buy a ticket on www.amtrak.com and save 25% off the regular adult fare. Simply purchase your tickets between February 21, 2003 and March 14, 2003 for travel from February 26, 2003 to August 28, 2003. The 25% discount is only available when you book online. Enter promotion code H304 when prompted by the reservations system."
You can get 25% off $144.
Michael
Washington, DC
I swear on this one. HART(Huntington Area Rapid Transit) recently recieved 8 new 2003 Gillig buses. They are either 30 or 35 foot models. #801-#808. I did see #801 on Friday operating on the 4S route. Its got plush seats and digital signs. Nice. Also, be on the lookout for Gillig #9615 from Suffolk Transit. Saw it in Amitviylle on Saturday afternoon. This bus has full wrap. I believe #9615 currently gets assigned to the S1 route. I was in Suffolk getting some great shots-including Flixible Metro #9342 and #9340(which i rode on Friday)-Does anyone know the roster of Suffolk buses assigned to Inter-County Coach in Babylon. I saw Gilligs,Orions and Flixibles.
S29-#9340-Flixible Metro-Suffolk Transit.
H9A-#502-Gillig-HART.
I think I spotted 9615 also a few weeks in Farmingdale on the S1. I forgot to post it here. If I remember correctly, the wrap was an ad for a local furniture outlet.
Okay here it goes I was down at Inter County a few weeks ago to drop off an application so I got a chance to see what they had at their itty-bitty tiny yard:
Gillig # 940
Gillig # 9632,33,34,35,36 Most if not all are newly repainted
Flxible # 9330 to 9345
Orion V # 9911 to 9919 and 9941 and 9942
The Orion's and the Flxibles I'm most definite about but they may have more of the 96xx's gilligs and those odd balled 9xx series Gilligs. If any one out can help with ICMC's roster that would be great! I could give Suffolk Buses Roster if your interested. i work for them. That Gillig that has the full body wrap is from Education Bus Transportation. Their gilligs look good and they have the most 40 footers since they have the route that runs along Rte. 110.
D.
can u send me the roster for Suffolk Transit depots bus roster? The only ones i was on was #9340 which i saw. Caught pics of #9342 and saw Orion V and Gilligs(any of them that were buy either Babylon R.R. or the ICMC garage. email to me at vautrin179@aol.com-thanks. ;-)
Today on my way to work, I saw 9424 on the V8. I could be wrong but I believe all of WMATA's Sunday runs at least, if not all Saturday runs are done with wheelchair equipped buses.
That's funny, I saw that bus running out of service down PA. Ave. by the Archives around 2:15PM or so. We were downtown being tourists today and I saw that one fly by. The only other thing that I saw that could be interesting was Orion V 429x running on the 70.
Artics don't operate on Sundays.
I was over on Grand Ave and 69 Lane in Maspeth tonight (Fame Diner).
Here's what I saw on the Q58/Q59 tonight:
4673 4719 4740 4743 4891
9141 9154 9156 5059 9594 5072
There were a few others but I couldn't see the numbers.
Figure it was half Novas half TMC.
#4747 Q58
#9153 Q59
I WAS ON 4673!!!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed the Fame Diner as we were passing it by.
oh, this will flip DaRidgewood. What Fame Diner are you talking about? (There is one right by where I go to college, by Union and Utopia.)
Nope-this 1 is on Grnad Ave and 69 Lane. BTW I was by St. John's today and I will be by there yet again tomorrow. I was the 1 with the #7 line hat in Marillac Cafeteria.
Anyways, here's what I rode on the Q46 today:
4902 repainted-bell is shot. HUGE numbers on inside board.
9364 4935 and 514.
Here are the other QV buses that I sighted today:
4905 4907 4910 4914 4916 4917 4920 4926 4928 4933 4935 4937 4940 4943
9350 9370 9378 8367 8387
7002 7014 7019 7027 7028
611 630 522 528
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST 4336. However this was along Queens Blvd-school trip.
#514 Q46
I got on the 1st Nova RTS Suburban I ever rode and that is #9288 on the Q46 again on Saturday. I saw Mostly Nova RTS Suburbans and 93xx/49xx RTS's and 1 lone orion and that lone orion is.... 144!
BTW the 1st time I rode it was back when #9288 came to QV in 2001. I rode this bus on Q46 and Q79 Lines
Does 144 have QV stickers, or does it still have CS on the window side and YUK on the door side, as it did the last time I saw it two weeks ago?
I only saw the driver side of it and this was while I was wating for the QM1A. It have CAS Stickers,I felt strange when I saw 144!
Oh yeah, this is gonna flip Ridgewood alright ;-)!
I was at my DEP meeting today, and since its really close to FP, I decided to do some observations myself.
Here's what I saw:
B13: 5074, 5072, 9147
B20: 3986, 4379, 4833, 9589
Q55: 3997(again!), 4380, 4683, 5060
Q58: 4382, 4746, 8003
Oh, and lots of 4600's/4700's Not in Service, its just pathetic. But notice the B13 is only one treated good? Because those crappy hand-downs can't handle the Cypress Hills St.(the Big Hill).
I bet it would've been worse if I was standing in Myrtle/Wyckoff. :(
In due time those 1987 TMC RTS will be scrapped-IN DUE TIME!!!
#9141 Q58
The real reason the B13 get's the best buses is because 90% of the pull outs on it are in the morning and the buses get passed from one operator to another during reliefs, so they have rather high mileage (for Fresh Pond) which affords the yard sld to assign it the Novas. Other than the mileage, we really don't care how steep the hills, what neighborhood it goes through or how many or who get's to ride the bus on it's scheduled trip.
BIG AL
When I was waiting for the Q11 early Sunday morning(around 12-12:30)one of the last Q29's heading towards Glendale passed me by(#711).The front sign was ok however the side sign read what the title is above with the word Flushing underneath.Can anyone verify to that it was proposed by DOT to extend the Q19 to Flushing or was it done just incase the 7 was running.
When I was waiting for the Q11 early Sunday morning(around 12-12:30)one of the last Q29's heading towards Glendale passed me by(#711).The front sign was ok however the side sign read what the title is above with the word Flushing underneath.Can anyone verify to that it was proposed by DOT to extend the Q19 to Flushing or was it done just incase the 7 wasn't running.
At one time it was proposed to extend the Q-19 to the Main Street Subway Station during the last days of the old Bureau of Franchises in the late 1980's.
At that time the TA objected claiming that it will duplicate the Q-48 and free transfers were started to be issued between the TA routes and the private lines. Hence Triboro never did extend the Q-19
I would speculate the sign was put on in anticipatiob of the extenstion.
Thank You
Well that was stupid on the TA's part.The Q48 runs every 20mins.It would've been good to have extra bus service along the 48 route.
Water Main construction
at intersection of
68 st and Madison Av
Eastbound diversions via regular to Madison Av,,East 72 st ,Lexington Av, left on East 68 st,,then regular route
Route Descriptions
Northbound
from Terminal Stand on South End at Albany St via SOuth End,Liberty St, West St,Murray St,NOrth End Av,Chambers St, West St Harrison St, Hudson St, 8 th av, Columbus Av,Central Pk West,66 st,Columbus Av,Broadway to stand bet 64 st and 63 St
Southbound
on Broadway bet 63 and 62 st via Broadway Columbus Circle,Broadway, 7 av South,,Varick St,West Broadway ,Chambers St,North End Av,Vesey St, West St,West Thames St, South End Av to stand far Side of Albany St
To be rerouted nr the Marine Air Terminal
via current to Central Terminal Bldg,Runway Road (south service Rd ),Bowery Bay Blvd, around the curve ,and right into the Marine Terminal ROadway to the new Bus Stop,and continue around current routing
will use the same routing around the Marine AAir Terminal ,via the back of the Terminal Bowery Bay BLvd
The M60 is also rerouted around the Marine Air Terminal. The idea is to loop BEHIND the terminal because of all the heavy traffic (taxis and charter buses jockeying for curb space) in FRONT of the terminal.
I am sorry,,apprantly my posting disappeared or did not work after i did it
If anyone needs routings,,,etc ,,let me know
Thanks
Steve
FDNY
Effective Feb 24,due to sewer construction on Grandview bet Forest and Nederland aV
This is N E ONLY
S46/s96
Northbound
regualr to South Av
to Forest Av
continue on South Av to Nederland Av,to Grandview Av,left onto Grandview Av and regular
due to roadway construction on Amboy Rd,bet Huguenot Av and Annadale
Northbound
regu via Annadale to Arden Av,Drumgoole Road West,Huguenot Av,to Amboy Rd,,make a right on Amboy Rd
Southbound
regualr via Amboy Rd,Huguenot Av, Drumgoole Rd East,arden av,to Annadale rd,make left and regula
this route will be bypassing Annadale Station SIRT,,board at Hugueont station
due to ferry terminal construction
southbound
regular route to State St,into Water st
right onto Broad St
right onto South St
to terminal on South St,at near side of Whitehall St
Northbound
from Terminal on South St,near side of Whitehall st
right on Whitehall st,left on State St
then regular route
due to sewer construction on Cresent St,bet Belmont Av and Atlantic Av
B13 southbound
regular route to Cresent st
Atlantic Av
Elderts LAne
Liberty Av
into Conduit Blvd
left on Euclid and regular
B13 Northbound
regular to Cresent st
Belmont Av
Autumn Av
Pitkin Av
Conduit Blvd North
Right on Cresent st and regular
Whats up with the old effective dates?
my material is up to date,,as of yesterday
Steve
FDNY
Ah
i work for NYC FD,,,i have alot of :
"INS
"
KOOL, Thanks!
Hi
I need route descriptions for every LI Bus Route
That is,,a street by street listing for every route,,up to date
I already did this,,back in the early 1990s..but it is now obsolete
Format
NB/EB via ======
SB/WB via ______
Turnaround via ______
ALso,,any short turn,,I need EVERY STREET for every route
ANd yes,,I will pay for this info ===of course,,it must be perfect and including up to the recent N8
Thank you
Steve
FDNY
914 668 9218---leave a name and a phone number
There is no N8 yet it's the N43 and that route is still not running along it's normal route(via Brookside Av)
And the route is not going to run via Brookside for the time being, perhaps never; community opposition.
Community opposition? What's wrong with those people!? They should be way more than happy that they're getting a new route!Do you know what they're complaining about?The bus runs every hour,it takes them to the largest mall in LI.Someone please tell me what's to complain about? And here's the strange thing,every time I either think about the N43 or see it,I get this feeling that it's been around before and that I've been on it before when we all know it's never exsisted before.I don't get it.
Also, MSBA / LI Bus had schedules printed for the new route N43 via Brookide. Rare collector's items now, certainly candidates for eBay.
What do you mean rare collector's item's? You can get the N43 schedule that shows it going via Brookside at the Hempstead Transit Center.Or on the N43 bus itself if its there.
What's now starting to be a rare collector's item is the JFK Flyer Schedule(N91) and as well as the Nassau Hub Night Loop Schedule(N90). I have a N90 Schedule when it was new back on 1/7/2001.
Hi
I am looking for rosters of NYC Transit Authority/MABSTOA pre=1950 and the many carriers of the 5 Boros (5th Av Coach ,Surface Transportation --examples)
Bus Fleet Numbers
Dates Mfgr
Builders
Model Numbers
Thank you
Steve
Has anyone been able to assist me in my request of actual route desciptions --street by street turn listings
Thanks
steve
This is an enormous very time-consuming request. It would take up to a week to detail each and every route; there are over 50 of them. While I work for LI Bus and know this information, I don't have the time to do such work. have you considered contacting the PR Dep't. of LI Bus? As to the old bus rosters you're looking for, I have these also, but recreating them would be a huge task.
Is there anyone here that can tell me where I can find technical specs for this line of GM buses? Is there like a website with this info, or can someone tell me here?
Thank you
I don't know if anyone would know, but, I thought someone in this forum might be able to shed some light in regards to this subject. My home transit system has six 2000 New Flyer C35LF coaches. One coach in particular is known for having slack brakes. It is written up almost daily for this problem. Maintenance claims to have cranked up the retarder (Allison B500R) as high as it will go, to assist with stopping, although the retarder on this bus is pathetic. They say that they can't find anything wrong with the brakes on the bus, yet, the operators practically have to stand on them to get this bus to stop and on some days, you can actually smell them which is concerning since it's only 15 degrees outside. Anybody care to take a guess as to what could be causing this? From what I've been told, maintenance has spent a lot of time trying to get to the root of the problem, so, it's not an obvious problem. Also, when it comes to the retarder, the new 2001 New Flyer D35LF coaches have very strong retarders. The 2000 coaches retarders don't even come close to matching the retarding power, yet, it's the same tranny and maintenance says the 2000 coaches are as high as they will go. How is this possible?
While go to the allision website it will tell how to fix certain retarder problems are etc. or they should have some sort of documention on that. Or it could be a brake defect.
This may sound silly, but has anyone in maintenance physically pulled on the slack adjusters with the parking brake off and the wheels chocked? It sounds like they need to put this bus on a lift, take the wheels off and have a through look at the slack adjusters, S-cam, brake shoes, brake drums, brake hardware and whether the front and rear brake chambers are funtioning properly. Let the mechanics take the bus out for a road test and let them see the problem for themselves. Meanwhile, this particular bus should not be in service. It's not worth it to get a ticket from DOT for having defective brakes.
does anyone know who septa will order their 360 low-floor buses from?
Nope i hope i is Neoplan since they have money troble maybe it could be flyer again
I can tell you that it won't be Gillig. NABI, Neoplan, Orion, and New Flyer submitted bids. I won't be shocked if New Flyer gets the new bid, but you never know these days.
i hope that NEOPLAN WILL WON THE BID! :)
u know i had the chance to ride the gillig low-floor bus in kansas city it's not a bad bus but it's not a bus i would choose for septa.
Cool i don't think that gillig is a septa type of bus!
I rode a Gillig Advantage in Louisville, and it wasn't that bad, for a small company. The thing that I really don't like about them is how high the windows are in the low floor section. I have to crane my next just to peek over the bottom of the window, and I'm over 6 ft tall. The back part was nice though, with a good amount of leg room. The wheels seemed huge though. I know that they use standard sized wheels on those buses, but wow!
I also didn't like the effect of sitting in the "bathtub", the front section of the Gillig Low Floor. Not a big problem for me since I almost always drove! My guess is that they didn't want to have two different window heights like you'll see on the New Flyer D40LF and other split low floor/high floor buses. Personally, I think it gives the vehicle a more attractive look from the outside with the windows only being one height down the length of the bus. The wheel wells are big too, but if there already isn't going to be enough room for the typical side-facing seats over the wells, they might as well go with standard-sized wheels and really take up the room.
Mike
I also didn't like the effect of sitting in the "bathtub", the front section of the Gillig Low Floor. Not a big problem for me since I almost always drove! I also didn't like the effect of sitting in the "bathtub", the front section of the Gillig Low Floor. Not a big problem for me since I almost always drove!
Yeah, that "bathtub" is just the problem! I both ride and drive Gillig LFs on a regular basis, and they flat-out depress me in either context. As a passenger, I find the legroom to be extremely lacking. That stupid tri-level seating pattern doesn't do anything for me, either.
That large piece that hangs down from the ceiling (between the passenger cabin and the driver's workstation/front door) gives the bus an especially closed feel. When I'm a passenger, it obstructs the view out the front window, and when I'm a driver, it makes me feel like I'm 50 feet from my passengers (sorry guys, I actually like interacting with my passengers!)
The driver's cabin puts me to sleep. It's totally isolated, very dark, and not really all that comfortable. I can't fully explain it, but driving a Gillig just don't put me in the same mood that a Flxible does. Our Flxibles are far from perfect, but at least the front of the bus is bright, open, and generally upbeat.
I agree; I LOVE sitting in the cabin of a Flxible. It just makes me feel right at home, and driving them is always a pleasure for me.
-F.
Did you ever drive the "New Look" style Flxibles?
I loved 'em....especially the 53102-8-1's we had....that big V8 engine and the three-speed tranny, we could FLY up the freeways with a full load. They rode better than anything around, they steered well, visibility was great out of 'em, the only thing I disliked was when they got into that third gear, it was hell to stop them quickly if something happened in front of the bus on the freeway. In other words, keep alert and leave plenty of room.
>>> That large piece that hangs down from the ceiling (between the passenger cabin and the driver's workstation/front door) gives the bus an especially closed feel. <<<
I suspect that is a local option. Here in Southern California, the Gillig Advantages I have seen have a clear plexiglass partition behind the driver with a window shade for night driving. Some operators use the space to post notices or put map and schedule holders which partially obscure the driver. The New Flyers have a ceiling to wheel well locker large enough for the driver to stow his carry on bag which really isolates him from the passengers. The NABIs also tend to isolate the driver more than the Gilligs.
Tom
I think he's refering to the part in the ceiling that has the STOP REQUESTED sign. It creates a different feel in the front of the bus (the drivers area) from the rest of the bus. I'm guessing though that all drivers of low floor buses would feel distanced from the passengers-after all, there is a huge wheel separating them.
And that wheel well is just fine separating us drivers fromthe passengers. Why is it all the time the passenger who stinks the worst, or is coughing, hacking, sneezing, and blowing snot the worst, always has to sit right behind the driver, or right across from them on high-floor buses?
Or the passenger who thinks the driver's job is to listen to all their life's problems....and does nothing but yak-yak-yak the whole time. The driver is not a psychiatrist, baby sitter, nurse, etc.
1. Basman was right - I was refering to the ceiling piece that contains the 'Stop Requested' sign. But Old Tom also points out another thing I don't like: the partition behind the driver. He claims that it is available in a clear material. I've been on Gilfs across the country (unfortunately) and have never seen anything but a solid color.
2. From Steve Hoskins, this is the response I knew would appear. A lot of drivers like the isolation provided by low floors. I guess I'm a rare exception. I love talking to my passengers. Even the annoying ones. It's not like they're on the bus forever, and it's not like you actually have to put your all into talking to them. I think the people-watching aspect is really one of the best parts of the job. It keeps it interesting, if nothing else...
RTS T80 206-
Now you have seen a Gillig Low Floor with the plastic window. Admitedly, it isn't much since the seatback blocks much of it. As a driver, I liked the partition mainly because it blocks the cabin lights at night, especially since the ones I drive had the ability to have the curb side row of lights completely off. Also I liked the isolation because the right side wheel well prevents seated passengers there, giving an unobstructed view out the window which is helpful when merging at an obtuse angle where you need to look further back than just strait sideways.
The bus in the bottom right corner was a new bus, delivered in October. Des Moines had a crap-load of video equipment, hence the cabinet and no need for that window. There was a camera poined out the windshield, two cameras out the doors, and two more looking back into the passenger cabin.
-Mike
Wow, I guess VTA has a large surveillance system behind the driver...
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
I was recently on a 1998 Gillig Advantage in Oakland, CA (Oakland International Airport AirBart)and I actually do find the ceiling piece attractive despite the fact that it provides separation from the passengers.
See if you feel the same way after 30 years of driving......
For one thing, we are supposed to keep our full attention to the road when driving. It is against our agency's policies tobe talking with the passengers while driving other than to give out information, etc., pertinent to the passenger's travel needs.
For one thing, we are supposed to keep our full attention to the road when driving. It is against our agency's policies tobe talking with the passengers while driving other than to give out information, etc., pertinent to the passenger's travel needs.
There are tons of policies that in the course of a day at a system get broken. When you look at the big picture, there are many worse things to do than talk to a passenger. As for annoying passengers, ones who smell and the ones that think you are obligated to hear their life story, well, those people also annoy everyone else they come in to contact with as well.
If an operator can talk to passengers and it doesn't cause his or her driving to suffer, I feel it's a good thing as it builds morale with the riders.
Operators who make it a point to avoid talking interaction with the public and carry an attitude of indifference are what cause bus operators to have a bad rep. My feeling has always been, if you hate people that badly, don't choose an occupation that requires you to be around them all day. If your burnt out, retire or leave so that others can move up.
I like the fact that Gillig went with regular 22.5-inch wheels instead of thsoe skimpy 19s on everything else. Do they improve the ride? Also, I like the wraparound front parking lamps..kind of gives it a Flxible Metro feel. If only the destination sign area didn't look so much like an RV piece. Oh yes, and the interior of the one that I stood on looked rather spartan.
-F.
that's the only thing i like about the gillig advantage that it has standard size wheels. the windows do sit a lil bit too low, and the ones in kansas city (kcata) have cummins engines with allison b400, like most gilligs across the country but it still aint a septa bus i would never picture a gillig in septa livery.
Sounds interesting...
Hmmm, may I ask why you won't choose it for SEPTA?
I have to agree on what the later threads said that the windows are high in the lower section. That's why I preferred to seat in the upper section when it comes to a GLF. In particular, I like the slide windows only in Flxibles, which can be opened widely for me to enjoy the wind and record some video...I referred a upper-tilt window on a Gillig...
Here are some shots of KCATA GLF from Kansas City..
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
It is a nice looking bus but i can not see it in septa colors!
it's not about the septa colors. its about how long the bus can last, especially in philly and their weather conditions. i lived out in kansas sity for some time and i've talked to bus drivers, most don't like gillig most say they should've stuck with the rts or go order from a different company, but hey that's what kc wants to do, base their fleet off of gilligs. but i know gillig cannot hold up to replace the neoplan. neoplan gave septa 21 great years of service but i do not think gillig can do anything to amaze me or septa.
When i said septa colors i mean septa type of bus i can't see that bus in septa. Anyway do you have any spec. on those buses out in KA.
i can find those spec for u as soon as i can or u can fina a lil bit of info on those buses at www.kcata.org and they should have a column on the gillig advantages. they ordered 32 of those buses and they are equipped with a cummins engine (not sure what series) with allison b400 transmission. seats 39 pax, with some of those extra features like satillite location, talking bus, etc...
Should be Cummins ISL..
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
more than likely... are those the same engines in nj transit's rts?
Hmmm...aren't NJT's RTS powered by Cummins C8.3?....
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
yes they are, i remember now... what's the diference between the isl and 8.3's?
Cummins ISL is a new engine design based on ISM, its main advantage is that it is 700 pounds lighter than ISM. ISL is idealy built for low floor buses with lighter weight. However, they do appear on Gillig Phantoms and NABI 60SFW. I wonder what Dart's new NABI 40SFW's powertrain is.
Currently, Cummins offers ISL at 2 power ratings, 280hp(40ft) and 330hp(artics).
Cummins ISC follows the footsteps of C8.3. It is offered at 280hp and 250hp. They are designed for 40 ft low floor buses and 35ft standard floor buses.
In addition, only Cummins L and C Series offer CNG/LNG versions engines.
Thanks.
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
If you're talking about DART First State in Delaware, then I can answer part of that question:
The NABI 416.13 (high floor) and 040.22 (low floor) buses have a DDC 50/Allison B400R 6 speed tranny, with TwinVision LED front, curbside, and rear signs. The DART NABIs - at least the 416.13 - sound a lot like the SEPTA NABIs.
The recently purchased replica trolley buses used on the 32/City Circuit were built by Chance, and have an ISB/B400R 5 speed tranny (same as SEPTA's Eldorados). They also have TwinVision LED signs, which is highly unusual for a replica trolley bus.
The Gillig low floors built in 2000 have a ISL (or possibly ISM)/B400R powertrain with a Luminator MegaMax sign system.
wow i did'nt know that the dart nabi has dcc 50 engine. What 6-speed trannys . They must be ungovern to.
do u know the specs on the kcata gillig low floors?
Not much though...
I just based on the model number that I traced, G22D102N4, which is decoded as G=Low Floor, 22=Cummins ISL, D=Diesel, 102=102", N4=40ft.
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Gillig Phantom
not bad....
Well, for one thing, I don't believe that Gillig buses have standard rooftop ACs (I've never seen one before). Also, some of the routes are really tough on buses, such as the 23-especially the 23, and i've heard stories that Gilligs can't handle tough treatment, and SEPTA isn't that kind and caring to their buses. They look nice, but they don't have that style...like the big comfy windows and such. Maybe for some smaller suburban routes, but not to replace the Neoplans.
I'm sure you could spec a Gillig for Sutrak roof top mounted A/C, rather than a Thermo King unit in the back near the engine. How these Gillig Low-Floors perform in Pittsburgh will either make or break Gillig in my opinion. Either, their buses will hold up and PAT will be pleased, causing other systems like SEPTA to gain some confidence in them, or they will fall apart, PAT will throw a fit and everyone's suspicions will be confirmed. Gilligs just aren't meant for big city service.
Ok, 10-4..
I look forward to you guys in Pittsburgh to keep us update on PAT's new buses..
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Gillig Phantom
I'm sure you could spec a Gillig for Sutrak roof top mounted A/C, rather than a Thermo King unit in the back near the engine.
Absolutely you can not. Gillig is the flat-out worst when it comes to options. They've never done any order with roof-mounted HVAC. Other options are scarce as well.
The only time that Gillig truly impressed me was the King County (Seattle) order. These Phantoms are the first "Phantom IIs" (that's what I call 'em) with improved driver's stations and overall better build quality. Seattle's also have rear windows, which actually look really great on these Phantoms. Compare that to the back of the Gilf, which is unquestionably the ugliest rear-end of a bus on any model ever. Period.
What is a Gilf?
Haha, that's my hate name for Gillig Low Floors.
For those who may not know it, SEPTA had a couple of Gilligs in service on the Horsham Breeze [310] line in the late 90's. Apparently,they didn`t impress SEPTA so they weren't considered for the order that eventually went to Eldorado.
BTW, those Gilligs were borrowed from Wilmington's DART.
>For those who may not know it, SEPTA had a couple of Gilligs in
>service on the Horsham Breeze [310] line in the late 90's.
>Apparently,they didn`t impress SEPTA so they weren't considered for
>the order that eventually went to Eldorado.
It's pretty sad when El Dorado beats out Gillig... lol
-Tyler-
What do you that mean? El Dorados are pretty decent buses- at least the ones that SEPTA and Ride-On have, in my opinion. i don't understand why it's so sad that they beat them.
yeah pretty sad... i never would've thought septa would order from el dorado though. in my opinion, they should've ordered 35 foot buses from neoplan or new flyer. i'm not that big of a fan of the el dorado buses, i rode them in kansas city. i think they are a piece of junk. if i were to order small buses i would consider neoplan, new flyer, or orion.
okay trevor, what do u have to say about gillig low floors?
Does SEPTA or at least in Downtown Philadelphia operate any Orion V CNG 30ft?...
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not that i know of...
You're probably thinking of the PHLASH Metrotrans buses. They look faintly like Orion Vs. Actually, that's exactly what SEPTA was supposed to get, but Metrotrans went the way of Flxible, hence the El Dorados instead.
I see. Because the time I saw that blue colored bus, it was far away...
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Gillig Phantom
The Metrotrans CNG buses used on the Phlash are owned by the City of Philadelphia (hence the "MG" Municipal tags instead of the "MT" Mass Transit tags on the SEPTA buses). The City also owns two sets of Orion II low floor buses - 101-105 are CNG powered (103 was scrapped due to fire damage) while 116-118 are diesel powered.
While septa was turn away from metrotrans which was sopposed to be their order back in 1999 metrotrans had a bankrupt and septa decided to go with the eldorados i think the eldorados are good while atleast the way they handle in septa. Nice and fast with a cummins 220hp engine with a b-300r-5 tranny dunno on the top speed
oh yeah, I remember that time. Why did SEPTA get them anyway for those routes? Those Gilligs were 40ft buses, weren't they? Why not use one of the AN435s?
The reason was this, when the route started, it was the first route to use those @%#*&@ Ford Cutaways. But the traffic on the Breeze completely overwhelmed the cutaways, and SEPTA didn`t have enough 35 footers to cover the line, so they went out and borrowed the DART Gilligs, and a couple of Baltimore MTA 30 foot Flxibles.
Note: I would have KILLED to see a Flxible Metro ran by SEPTA. Too bad I couldn`t get up to the Willow Grove area to get a good look at them. That would have been quite a sight, considering the awful feelings between SEPTA and Flxible.
Now, SEPTA had Flxible Metros? That is amazing (it gives some truth to the Flxible bus models in SEPTA scheme that has been palmed off as SEPTA Neoplans. Why were there such awful feelings between SEPTA and Flxible?
Like the DART Gilligs, SEPTA covered up the logo, and in the case of the Flx's they covered up the fleet numbers (because they duplicated the numbers of the 8700's Neoplans).
The bad feelings between SEPTA and Flxible started with the 1973 111CD051's, and the 53096/45096 models. Both of these groups of buses were lemons, with a myriad of mechanical problems, plus the [then] lousy maintenance rep of SEPTA, and a lot of these buses spent more time in the shops, than on the road. They were a major part of the reason SEPTA fell apart in the late '70's. When David Gunn took over in 1979, SEPTA put their rebuilding efforts into the GM fishbowls, and let the Flxibles fade away slowly. The Flxible population took a major nosedive during the arrival of the first three sets of Neoplans in the early 80's. The well-publicized problems with the 870's didn't help Flxible's efforts either. Basically, Gunn started his disdain for Flxible here in Philly. Then it was extended to his tenure in NYC [he parked the TA's 870 fleet], but it was broken when he went to WMATA [buying the 8700's and up].
You wouldn't have missed too much. The 3 Flxible 30-ft buses leased to SEPTA by the Maryland Mass Transit Administration (8742-8744) were kept in the MTA colors, with the MTA logo replaced by a Breeze logo. The same thing happened when SEPTA leased four Gilligs from DART First State (447-450). They stayed in the DART livery with a Breeze logo covering up the DART logo.
Gillig would not have submitted a bid on for the 30-ft bus order in the first place, since they generally avoid orders from the larger east coast properties (though that doesn't explain why they took large orders from Seattle and Minneapolis). The only exception was the 20 Gillig 30-ft buses for WMATA, though I believe they were mainly funded by the DC Government.
My understanding was that the Gilligs were returned to DART so they could use them on the Sussex County beach routes, and not as much that SEPTA was unimpressed. Even so, SEPTA wouldn't have ordered 80 Gilligs to begin with.
As I have stated in other messages in this thread, Gillig will never submit a bid on a SEPTA order, so at least Philadelphians won't have to endure these buses. OTOH, DART First State in Delaware seems to have had relatively few problems with their Gilligs, though they did go with NABI for their most recent high and low floor order.
okay... who do u think septa will order form? i think it's between neoplan and new flyer. i like them both equally but it just doesn't seem right that septa doesnt have 40' neo's in their fleet. but one problem... philly has some narrow streets and from what i seen all bus manufacturers who build low-floors only provide 102" wide buses and that may be a lil bit of a problem, especially if they continue running buses on the 23.
I'm wondering what they are going to do about the 23. it would be rediculous to put low floors on that route during rush hour (last thursday I was on a full bus, and the driver didn't accept more passengers after Mt. Airy. They need big buses, but a 102 inch wide bus is crazy in Chestnut Hill at least (I know the L uses the NABIs on Germantown Ave in Chestnut Hill as well, but it's just a very short segment in Chestnut Hill before it turns off.) I thought Neoplan still made 96inch low floors, though. i'm pretty sure the others don't though, which makes me wonder if SEPTA even realizes that they are about to replace the last 96in. wide buses. However, I doubt they care, because they put some drivers through hell by ordering 102 inch buses for routes that would be better off with 96inch wide buses. The 27 for instance, always seems to pass another bus on Manyunk Ave (?) in Manyunk/roxborough. One has to stop while the other barely squeezes by. I know the H runs up the narrow MT. Pleasant Ave, and it generally uses Neos, although often times it uses NABIs. I doubt that there are really other lines besides the 23 that's completely Neoplan, although there are some that come close (105). Anyway, I'm completely agree with you. SEPTA without 40ft Neoplans would seem wrong. Let's hope SEPTA goes Neo.
i dunno someonw would have to make them realize that. a whole bus fleet does not have to be low floor. neoplan is the only company i've seen on the internet that still makes 96" wide 40 ft buses standard floor. but septa tends to do their own thing. let's just wait. but wasn't septa supposed to have been picked who won the bidding what's taking then so long?
Well it is agree that it will be 360 LOW floor buses and no Standard floor bus. And also NABI make still make 96" buses to.
i went onto the site and i did not see where they said it.
hmmm on nabi old site it did
it did on the old nabi site but not on the new one.
hmm if septa want they can custom . look @ the 30 feet el dorado
u think septa would order from orion? u know septa is unpredictable.
I'd be extremely surprised if SEPTA ordered from Orion. I can't imagine an Orion in SEPTA colors at all.
well i see septa but 102 wide buses on the 15 and 46 so i guess a nabi canjuse bearly fit on the 23 i seen nabis before fit into some very tight places before! Hopefully septa will get the NEOPLAN!
I never understood the thing about the 46 though. I thought the RTSs were 102 inches wide, and I know that rt 46 was an RTS route before hey were retired. Also, just because a NABI can fit into a very tight spot doesn't mean that it's good to be used in that place (just ask the driver who smashed his right rear view mirror on a pole on Stenton Ave last summer.)
SEPTA's RTSs were all 96" wide.
oh, okay. Well, never mind...what happened with SEPTA then? Back when they were smart and only had 96inch wide buses, now they are cramming 102s on narrow streets. lol. Does anyone know where the suburban style 35ft RTSs ran from? (The entire time SEPTA supposedly had them, I never saw or rode one).
hmm in frontiar for the 35foot ones
It's a direct trade-off between having a low-floor coach and having a 96" wide coach.
My speculation as to why no manufactor offers a 96" low-floor, is due to the intrusion of the wheels inside the low-floor. The area between the first passenger seats and the drivers area is particuarly tight. If they were to build a 96" low-floor, that area simply would not be wide enough for most people and would more than likely have trouble passing as ADA compliant as well.
Many systems are sold on the low-floor idea and are willing to modify runs to accomidate them or simply take their chances with these buses despite their width.
The 35 foot RTS started their service lives at Frontier Depot, then they went to Victory (Red Arrow), and finally finished out their days at Luzerne/Midvale. The routes they were on at Luzerne/Midvale were ususlly the 25, 35, and 89.
I believe the 35 ft RTS buses were retired in 1992-93 - a few years Midvale opened in 1998.
I didn't know that Midvale was so new. I wonder why its buses aren't really that good, then.
If Midvale opened in '98, then the 35 ft RTS were retired in '97 along with the rest of the RTS fleet, after the arrival of the NABI's.
yea all the rts were retired in 96/97 i remeber when septa went to stike in 95 i see one of those on the news.
ive seen one on the 18 before, believe it or not this was a while back it was on a run to olney terminal and this was about 93 when germantown was closing, septa finally started putting ads on their buses and i was still in elementary. ive rode one before. nice bus.
I never liked them that much for some reason. There was always this ugly yellow glow and it never seemed as nice as the Neoplans. I loved the engine, though, and how the transmission shifted into the higher gears.
i thought the suburban ones were 102 in wide.
All are 96inchs
i used to have one of those lil booklets on septa buses and i thought for sure septa ordered a few that were 102 in wide but i may be wrong. regardless, i would love to have a video camera to record the troubles that bus drivers will have on narrow streets with the 102 in buses like the 23, H-XH (esp the H at mccallum and mt pleasent) and some west philly routes.
hehe they can make it. i won't be shock to see a bus damage or something.
I remember the big blue bus ran on the 23 recently. Also, you could see the H now do that struggle...I know that the H runs NABIs in the evenings during peak service hours.
the rts were 96inchs wide . and i seen nabis/newflyers on the 40 15 46 and i wondar how did they fit.
a whole lot of prayer.
I thought Neoplan still made 96inch low floors, though.
Neither Neoplan, or any of the other builders have ever offered a 96" low-floor bus...
I hope it will be NEOPLAN. But knowing SEPTA's history and tendencies, bet on NEW FLYER.
Yea i would love to see a New Neoplan in septa see what's specs will be on it etc.
What do you mean? SEPTA gets variety in all types of buses, and they did go back to Neoplan for the articulated order. Anyway, I guess it's going to mainly be who the low bidder is, especially since state funding was cut so drastically for Transit Systems statewide. I really do hope that SEPTA does get new Neoplans, if it is able to. SEPTA without Neoplans would be like WMATA without Flxibles. It would be so wrong. I'd hate for those remaining Neoplans I grew up with to be replaced with some other type of bus. However, if not Neoplan, New Flyer would be okay. It just has that SEPTA look....
Yea Septa w/o neoplans won't be the same but remember septa still has the artics. I hope they get the Neoplan an440lf . and have a top of 65mph ah dreams.
What I mean is that throughout the history of SEPTA/PTC/PRT, the company tends to get most of their vehicles from one builder. For example, during the 1920's thru the early 50's, PRT/PTC got their buses from Mack. From the NCL takeover thru the SEPTA takeover, PTC was an exclusive GM property. After the first SEPTA purchase in 1969 (the 4250-4427/206-11/1200-14 Fishbowls), the 70's saw nothing but Flxibles. The pattern was broken by the RTS purchase in 1980, but the rest of the decade, up to 1990 SEPTA bought Neoplans exclusively, except the artics (Volvo). The 90`s were quiet until the NABI's arrived, then the Neo Artics, the Eldorados, then the New Flyers.
I hope SEPTA gets Neoplans, but the history I just quoted points that the purchase may go in another direction, and that direction will go to a company that has a [good] track record with SEPTA recently, and that is, NEW FLYER.
Yea new flyer is alright but i hope they try something different for a change .
WMATA without Flxibles, now that is what I am saying. You could say the same thing about Baltimore and that not seeing Flxibles there would be the worst thing known to man, although the NABI seem to be fitting in there well and hopefully the Neoplans do the same.
I hope y'all missed me ;-). I haven't posted in a while b/c I've been having some problems with my computer but I'm here and ready to post again! Damn, I'm WAY behind LOL!
:-) go to see ya back o_O
Thanx :-). Its been about 2 weeks since I posted here and it felt LONG!!!
I missed you too!!.... DaBrightonMan. :)
Nah, you're not far behind at all...hey, did you hear that your city is getting a fleet of new Orion XIVs? LOL!!! Welcome Back, Kotter.
-F.
This one was on my mind. Does anyone know when the Grummans first appeared at Ulmer Park and Castleton what numbers they were? For example, i remember being on #PA31 and #PA27 at UP and #400? at Castleton. Any help would be appreciated.
B1-#9318-NOVABUS
B1-#9301-NOVABUS-repainted.
Someone help me on this. I swear, comning home Sunday night, i think i saw #5085 at the ENY outside garage parked. I know #5085 is assigned to FLA(it was at UP for awhile)-anyone know the real deal?
Maybe a fix up perhaps.........
It's there for the 3 year upgrade.
#5085 B44
Today was a bit odd.
I saw a D45S on the X51 on the 3:45 to Sanford Ave then later on around 5 PM I saw like about 8 QSC RTS's running the Express Lines(2 on QM4,The rest is QM1A) and so as the 4xx OrionV CNG's(2 of them on QM1A). I saw like about 5 QSC MCI's(2 on QM4,The rest on QM1A). I also saw MCI's from MTA as normal and also the QM21 is the same as allways(MCI's with RTS's sometimes). Alot of 5xx OrionV's on QM1,QM1A,QM4 lines.
Now here's the odd sightings.
The thing I fround about RTS #364 running the QM1A was it was the Wall St to NST run it was doing and knowing this is a verry long route and it's normally OrionV CNG Suburbans it don't make sence to be on there.
Anouther odd sighting is #9346(I think) on the X64 doing on a run that is normally covered by a MCI.
QSCs Onions are really messed up. I rode 519 and 527 on the Q104 over the weekend and these buses have to be the slowest ones that I've ever rode-especially 519. And the RTS are sitting in the yard on the weekends so they get their runs during the work week. See I told you that the TMC RTS are the best buses that QSC has in their garage. I know what I'm talking about-the majority of those can still run very well unlike the Onions.
I saw 512 and 548 on the QM1 today and they looked horrible. Extremely dirty and sounded horrible.
The 400s are usually sighted on the QM routes often especially if 25 MCI Classics are OOS.
Thurston can perhaps help me out here. Last week I saw 923 on the QM1 with a fresh coat of paint. Was this 1 of those that were taken out of service? If that is, then I know the exact reason why those 25 are placed out of service. Not only engines are messed up but the need an overhaul and a repaint. I know 900 was 1 of them that needs it. UGH!
Others with no fresh paint include 902 903 907 916 920 921 924 925 930 933 935 938 943 944.
As far as 9346 on the X64, last Friday I saw 9267 on the X63?
I said the same thing. There are probably a few MCI Cruisers that are probably OOS and the only other bus that could be sent out was 9267 or today 9346. FYI this is a pretty often occurrance. I always saw 1 RTS on the X63 or X64 especially during the PM Rush.
However, this happens worse at CS. They have 996-998, 2896-2907 and the 100 Onion Suburbans that could be used on the X51. One or a few of these were OOS and what did they use in its place???
281 A 1993 Onion 5.
I have a pic of it as proof. Email me if you'd like to see it.
Taken 12-2002.
I researched my pics and I have a pic of 538 on the X51 as well.
Oh geez!!!
#281 X51
I thought 996-998 were taken out of service.
NO!!! They've been in service for about a year now on the X51.
#997 X51
This is for the Bensonhurst (and to some extent East NY bustalkers as well). Coming home on the B6 today, I got bus 3962, which is a 1985 GMC. It has license plate L29071. I was shocked to see it registered as a 1990 bus. That may explain the new license plate.
BTW, I havent checked the registration on ENY 4416 yet
3962 B6 Limited
Click here for roster
527-528 are at QV. Saw 528 on Q46 today. When did 146 go to QV?
8249 IS NOT At Atlantic Diesel. It was on the M3 Saturday.
#528 Q46
Bus #7551 is at KB? KB must really need buses badly! Also, buses #8878-8887 are now at KB. So buses #8807-8888 are at KB...this must be for the Bx16. BTW, rumor has it that the Bx36 is no longer artic...if that's the case when why deos the roster still have the Bx36 listed as an artic route. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
Ray
The Bx36 is not an artic route anymore. This is not a rumor. I have been stuck behind some under Boston Road while busfanning the #2 General Order Service Interruption the last two weekends.
#5401
I know this is off-topic for BusTalk, but are they ever going to update the subway roster at UTC?
Is KB giving up all artics.Because according to this roster the artics , well the new ones arent going to KB . It was suppose to be the first 30. Did the drivers reject? Is GH gettin more artics. I heard rumors of the new WF farms to get Artics to? whats the deal.
AMI
This probably had to do with a route swap between GH and KB. The Bx16 is now KB, and the Bx 55 is now UP. 25 RTSs (8863-8887) were exchanged for 22 artics (5402-5423).
This probably had to do with a route swap between GH and KB. The Bx16 is now KB, and the Bx 55 is now UP. 25 RTSs (8863-8887) were exchanged for 22 artics (5402-5423).
Well JG has the most buses in Brooklyn as of now.
It looks like they will be plenty of overtime this weekend for the DOB for subway shuttles.
Entire weekend shuttles will operate on the L Line between Myrtle Ave and Broadway Junction.
Between 36th St/4th Ave and 9th Avenue on the W Line
Between Queensboro Plaza and Jackson Avenue on the 7 line
Between Woodlawn and Bedford Park D Line Station on the 4 line
Sunday only on the A Line between Rockaway Blvd and Beach 98th Street
Thank You
I think I'll hang around 36St on Saturday and help out the confused victims of this GO...-coughs- ahem,I mean confused passengers.
Sweet, the (L) shuttle is back. I'll definitely be doing observations on this one, since I have no interest in the Bronx one. Plus its pretty close to me, I just have to take the Q55/B13. But I wish it wasn't on my birthday though, Oh well.
At least you be rideing buses on your birthday
Any chances of SI Buses being used on any of these numerous shuttles this weekend???
Not a chance. I wonder if they need Manhattan Div. buses (as well as the Bx.) for the #4.
Does anyone have any pics or info on the Flxible Metros that are currently running in Petersburg (just south of Richmond)? From what I have heard, these are the newest Flxibles in the state of Virginia. Please let me know if you have any info on these!
-F.
Anyone have an idea why the front lights on buses (in my experiences, the RTS' and Orions) have the lights go off when the front doors close?
The driver can have that set. I used to do that, especially at night because it reduces glare on the windshield. They go on so you can see when you board or de-board. You can set them to stay on too, at least on a Flxible Metro, you can, so I'm sure you can do that on an RTS and Orion.
I know on the TMC Citycruisers that the Lowell (MA) RTA had from 1979 to 1992, the driver could actually turn off the right (passenger entry door side) interior lights, leaving only the left side on. Ditto on the 1987 Orion 1's that Nashua (NH) Citybus ran till last year. I've never seen this done on the LRTA's Flxibles and Gilligs, I don't know if it can be done. I've seen all the interior lights kept on an LRTA Flxible I rode a couple of weeks ago.
Mark
On the Gillig Low Floors that Des Moines has, you can turn off the curbside lights, just like on the Orion Vs and New Flyer D60HFs they have. Even if you have all of the lights on, the front set of lights will still go dark when the door shuts. A lot of the Des Moines buses didn't have working front lights anyway. If the bulb or balast goes out, why replace it? It's nicer for the driver that way.
Mike
Bus Disco, eh? Now THERE's an idea...we actually entertained the thought of playing period music on our museum coaches. We wouldn't be far off on our restored Grumman 870 from 1979...that year was mostly Kool And The Gang and The Village People. All we need is a giant mirror ball in the ceiling of the coach...LOL!!!
-F.
P.S.: You should see it "get down to the groove" on turns. :)
Yup, VTA's Flxibles have that feature as well as Gillig and New Flyer. Just got some snap shots last night...
Additional shot from 9288 with a wheelchair lift in used...
Enjoy,
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
>Anyone have an idea why the front lights on buses (in my
>experiences, the RTS' and Orions) have the lights go off when the
>front doors close?
The lights go off so that at night, a driver can see out the windshield clearer. We have a few RTS's where the sensor is broken, and the light doesn't go out. Makes a BIG difference.
Lynx (Central Florida Regional Transportation Authority, but dba Lynx) has a fleet of 96-01 Phantoms... I like the way thiers are set up... the front TWO lights go out when the door is closed. Reduces glare even further. Im sure it can be set up quite easily in any bus.
I remember reading something on the New Flyer Invero... something about electronic lights that dim, and have zero glare? I never got to see that on the demo we had... But sure would be a nice idea. Perhaps incandescent light instead of crappy flourescent... and as the driver closes the door, it dims gradually... now that would be nice. Combine that with european style interiors (plush seats, with curtains covering window pillars) and that would be one nice bus :)
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Many systems have the front set of interior lights shaded with a dark tinted plastic cover that slides over the florescent tubes to reduce the glare when the lights are on in addition to the lights going out when the door is closed.
So that the driver can see the road when he's moving.
Passed by Ulmer Park this afternoon going home. Not only did i see #4755 being towed, #8676 in the garage. This i know was orignally a ENY bus. Is this bus permantly assigned to the garage or temporaily?
B1-#9300-NOVABUS
B3-#9109-NOVABUS
by the way, i did see #8565 in service on the b61 on friday. Its back in service at JG.
It's probably for repairs.
8676 is a JG bus (along with 8090-3, 8095-7, 8100-1, 8671-89). I am probably guessing it broke down on the B8 route, and the UP garage was the nearest one at which it could be repaired.
8094 remains in ENY, and 8099 is now scrap. 8098 died young.
I wonder what happened to recently scrapped 8099? Fire? Serious accident?
I am not sure. All I know was that 8099 is stripped and at Carlton right now. I should get a chance to look next week at Carlton to see what happened.
Saw it at the body shop on Thursday with work being done on the front, right side near the headlights, paint was stripped.
#8676 has left Ulmer Park as of 3/17/03. I saw it leave around 1:40p.m. It was heading back to Jackie Gleason.
This trip wasn't as bad as the last one, the one last week really took the cake, but I ventured back into Baltimore MTA territory, not going to let some idiots deter my fun, DAMMIT.
Unfortunately thought, missed not only The Bus's Gillig 62897, also missed WMATA 2039. But waited I did make two observations. First off I saw Southern's 9733 running on the A12(Landover). Also noticed that 8812's front destination sign is now similiar to the ones found on the 5100s. Alas, I caught "Old Faithful" The Bus 63038 Thomas TL960 on the 21 going towards the New Carrolton Metro Station. From there I got Orion VI 2027 on the R12. On this bus I saw another R12 passing us, and it was another Southern 9700 series, this one being 9727. Oh, btw did I mention IT WAS SNOWING!!! I now officially hate snow. Anyways, I got to Greenbelt, took a couple of pics and got 4392 on the B30 heading towards BWI.
As anyone who read my last bus trip post know the problems I had with MTA and the issue I had with their ticket machine. This time same machine, different result, I got a ticket, thank god(for the machine anyway, as MTA might have one less machine to worry about if I didn't get my ticket. Anyway got on light rail and took it to Patapsco Station where I caught 9944, a NABI 416 on the 51. BTW still snowing, but it wasn't sticking nowhere. I took this bus to North Avenue. We passed the Bush bus garage and saw the new Neoplans(the one I saw and the others covered by the thick fence). They look alright, need to see them on the road before giving my thumbs up, but not before I get to ride those 8500s. Irode this bus on the route 51 I got to the intersection of North and Bentalou Streets and quickly got 9501 going towards Walbrook junction. I have made a comment on the seats on this bus and if any DC busfan want to see these just take find the route 91. This route starts at the Rogers avenue subway station and runs into downtown baltimore along Baltimore Street eastbound, passing the Charles Center station and westbound Lombard street(don't remember if I am correct with the street on this one). Back to the story, I got to Walbrook Junction and wanted to take pics of buses there. I took a pic, the next pic I took, my camera stopped working, batteries died, so I went to a nearby convience store to buy some more, put them in and the camera still didn't work, seemed I put the batteries in wrong, DUH!! Before then, I decided to take the 13 to Canton, in which I got 8953. This driver was an elderly lady and she didn't seem to be in a good mood and the way she hanlded the bus showed it. She was flying down the street with one lady saying "Go Ahead And Handle This Bus Girl" and another lady saying "Man This Bus Is Rattling Big Time". Anyway, got near to Canton and got some eats and figure out why my camera wasn't working and that is when I found out that I had the batteries in the wrong way. I got it working again, even taking a couple of pics of some 9400s. I walked to the Canton terminal where the 7 and 13 terminate and in came 0045 on the 7. If I had some patience, I could have fulfilled my mission and gotten a chance to ride an 8500s, that being 8515. I was waiting on 0045, I saw this bus pass by, DAMN. Oh well, I got this bus and went to Mondawmin. There I saw about three 8500s,one a one door 8500, but none where on the routes I wanted to ride, DOUBLE D***. I was trying to get the 16 to Patapsco, but it never came, so I waited for the 51 and soon 8704, Flxible Metro came. After I left the station, I saw some police going into the station and further down the road I heard that all buses are supposed to go outside of the station and not to go in, so I wonder what was up. I decided to get off at the Westport LRT station and catch the light rail to try to catch the B30 home, but just missed the B30 heading back to Greenbelt.
After a wait, got 4395 back to Greenbelt then got good old reliable Thomas SLF 235, 63032 back to New carrolton, where I got who I will now name "Speedy Gonzalez" to NC. The reason why I name him "Speedy Gonzalez" is this dude flies down the road, and on top of this it is an express bus. Today he didn't go as fast as he did last week, but he was pushing that bus and the bus was responding in turn. I got to
New Carrolton, just missing the 7:15(speedy wasn't fast enough for me to get this bus). So after about 30 minutes got Flxible E, 4033 on the F14 going home.
That was my fun for the day, and I hope it doesn't rain(OR SNOW) on Thursday, because I want to do another Baltimore bus trip, and this time I hope to 1)ride an 8500 and 2)hope my camera works.
It's in. Saw it this afternoon at 50th and Lex:
Nice picture!
The UTC Bus Roster posted yesterday indicates that 5537-5546 are in at Quill.
Yes, I saw the new UTC roster just after posting the photo. I'll be on the lookout for 5547!
With those new artics, the roster shows some 8200's in M.J. Quill were moved to MV and HP. MV has killed some of their 4300's, but the 85'RTS's still remain. I'm just hope some of those buses don't get dumped in Brooklyn.
Actually I like the 8500's RTS, only if they are repowered.
Blah!!! Those have to be the worst pieces of junk out there on the road now! Give me any Nova over those repowered pieces of garbage anyday. Either that or a non-repowered TMC.
#8374 Q46
#4932 Q88
I saw and rode 5545 yesterday on the M102 Line
On a brief trip into Manhattan last night I noticed the following:
(1) An unusual NYCT express coach, #996, on the X51 laying over on 34th St. near Lexington Ave. IT looked like an Eagle. Anyone know what manufacturer it is and if is a demo or part of a new order?
(2) Two NYBS GM Classics - one was #1493.
(3) A Flyer Artic on the M15 - #55XX - SB on 2nd Ave. at about 5:45 PM(did not catch the last two digits). Is this the precursor of many more artics on this route?
996 is a D45S "Viking" - one of 3 owned by NYCT - 996-998 - were demos that were purchased by NYCT -- were going to be considered when NYCT purchased the MCIs. New Flyer is the Manufacturer - they don't offer it for sale anymore - I think Dallas is the only other big city that has them -- they have like 100 or so. They are really nice coaches --- NYCT had a problem with them at first relating to the glass for safety regulations and also with the height - vehicle is 12'1" -- an MCI is 11'5". They remind me of the fishbowls since they have the Pull Cord for stops.
NYBS 1493 should be a Fishbowl - 198X GMDD Canadian bus --- They are the last batch of Fishbowls used in public service in NYC. The Classics are with a flat front -- NYBS's begin with 1600 and go to 1714.
Artics will eventually make their way over to 126th Depot (where M15 is) as more come in -- the ones there now I believe are supposed to be assigned to another depot, but are being used for Driver training both on route and off route.
Hope this helps --- some other people may be able to provide more information.
The other city that has Vikings is Houston (104 buses, if memory serves).
David
Thank you for the info. You're absolutely right about NYBS 1493 being a Fishbowl - it's been so long since I've seen them in NYC that I got them confused with Classics. I imagine that they were built around 1978 or 1979, correct?
BTW, are the other two Vikings also at Casey Stengel for the X51?
I believe the fishbowls still in service at NYBS are fairly late models, like from 1982 or 1983.
All three of the Vikings are kept at Stengel for use on the X51. You can usually see them parked together from Roosevelt Avenue when they are not in use.
I believe the fishbowls still in service at NYBS are fairly late models, like from 1982 or 1983.
They're 1982 models, delivered in Dec '81-Jan '82.
NYBS Classics end at 1716.
#1716 BXM7
Got 5619 this morning. Still has the route block correctly set thanks to yours truly. 5808 was the other bus and was running late.
Due to an accident on route 124, 90s were being told to turn onto Sweepstakes Road to find places to turn around. Controller first forgot the 90 doesn't go to Milestone middays so he first tells the drivers to go there. Then, tells them to do whatever they can to turn. Finally gives them instructions on how to turn back. Driver told me that particular controller is a jerk. When it snows, he has to evaluate road conditions and since he has a Jeep with 4 wheel drive, can make it up the worst of the hills. As a result, the drivers are expected to go on some pretty hazardous conditions. The controller's belief? If you are a good driver and you hit ice, you will be able to handle it.
Anyway...
At the MVA, Gillig 5322 was there for CDL testing I believe. Also saw 5421 with the black front on the 23. No pictures of either, sorry.
Also, the controller was once driving on the 46 at Rockville due to a driver shortage. My driver said he had 5574 and while exiting the station, took the turn too sharply and knocked over a stop sign (so much for being a good dirver). Now he has to investigate his own accident but the final report has not been made yet.
LOL!!!! So much for being a good driver, maybe a jeep but not a bus. Maybe Mr Jeep should use the bus to evaluate road conditions when it is snowing and icy out there.
Apparently, he can't drive when there isn't ice and snow. He can't pull out of a Metro station at slow speed, who is to say he can drive on Sweepstakes Road with ice safely in any vehicle?
I saw another 2460, 2463 to be exact deadheading on South Dakota Avenue back to Bladensburg. Also saw 8824 (southern) on the T18(landover). WHAT IS THIS, LANDOVER BEING INVADED BY SOUTHERN BUSES. What next getting all of their Orions and Landover's 4274-86. Seesh.
Last but not least saw 5242 at Lafayette Square with mechanical issues
with about four supervisor cars two in the front and two in the back.
Looks like they found gold in that bus they had so many there.
Started with the B68 to the B64. From 86th Street-caught the s93 to connect with the S66. From Castleton garage, i took the S46 to connect with the s59 to the mall. After hanging with a friend, i took the S61 to the S79 home to bay ridge. here is what shocked me:
For all those who complained about the express coaches on local lines from UP and JA, the ones that run from Yukon are worse. Broken seats(on #127) and missing seats(on #129). The only highlight was Orion V #6348 repainted in mint condition(probably 3 year upgrade)-Yukon should get their act together.
B68-#859-Flyer
B64-#4760-RTS
S93LTD-#6288-Orion V
S66-#6221-Orion V
S59-#6175-Orion V
S61-#129-Orion V-missing seats and says bell broken-but bell works.
S53-#6182-orion V.
I was over on the Q46 today. I rode 4932 and 9361.
Had to take care of some things near SJU and saw 513 626 on the Q30/Q31.
A lot of 4900s were sighted on the road today: 4907 4909 4911 4917 4919 4932 4937 4940 4942 4943.
I did not see any 9200s and not too many 9300s. I did see 8374 not repowered, 8377 8381 and 8390.
Now for the Onions: 512 513 525 612 621 626.
Q17: 8955.
QSC 539 551 555 and 952. 551 and 555 had broken signs in the front. Sound familiar? Can you say GBL Onions?
Q74: 146 554 AND 657.
146 has double seats on BOTH SIDES. Front seats look the same as the other Onions. I guess you can say think of the arrangement like the 5500 series Onions at GBL except that there are 5 rear engine seats. and there are 2 seats on the left side as well.
On my way home, I rode 4501. Rode pretty good. Interior numbers are white instead of blue on a white number board. Brought back memories-lol. I knwo I just made DaRidgewood proud of me-hehe!
#5525 Q60
#146 Q74
#4501 Q46
On my way home today, I got two sightings of "strange" NJT buses. First off, the infamous "Wandering MCI D4000", 7618, was seen on the 551 heading to Philly on the Ben Franklin Bridge, and a few car lenghts behind it was Flxible Metro B 3002! What was THAT bus doing down south? I didn`t get a good look to se if it had a bike rack [a common feature on all transit and suburban buses in South Jersey], like it's brother 3000, but I thought that bus was supposed to be up in a North Jersey garage like Newark or Meadowlands. Was this bus a loaner or what?
If anyone cares, I saw an Orion demonstrator yesterday morning around 7. It was northbound on I-35/80 in the Des Moines area. I couldn't tell if it was a VI or a VII, but it was painted in the teal and orange colors that you'll see on their website (http://www.orionbus.com/orion) with Orion VI or VII written on the side.
Mike
Well, that bus is an Orion VII.
Yea to bad NYC's one are Sloooooow
This statement may be accurate, but it's not possible to tell yet since none of NYC Transit's Orion VIIs are in service yet.
David
While i heard that they have a top speed of 40mph. In Nyc and a top speed of 60mph in marta
That's probably the governor...why do companies do this to the buses though...make them so slow. I can understand 50, but 40mph and less?
HEHE it is in nyc 40mph is fast sompare to some of there buses which can only reach to 30mph. Any here has any specs on the nyc orion VIII buses.
1. Since they're not here yet, it is not possible to say whether they are governed or not.
2. Since the speed limit on most of New York City's streets is 30 MPH, just about anybody driving a bus at 40 MPH on a New York City street (where these buses will be operating nearly 100% of the time) is speeding.
David
i am pretty sure they are i don't think that they will have allision b-400r 6-speed trannys ungovern . Anyway if they do NYC will just limit them down anyway. anyway i know that going 20mph on some nyc you be lucky so i think they should be govern down to 30mph.
On the WMATA website they have a retrospective image gallery and they have shown are some new looks and AMGs. They plan to add images till September. They also have some commerative 30th Anniversary gifts for purchase including a commerative mug with a Flxible new look on it (a must for Flxible fans like myself). It is on the main page of WMATA's website www.wmata.com and if you feel a little more adventurous, www.metroopensdoors.com, even though it will lead you to www.wmata.com
if you feel a little more adventurous, www.metroopensdoors.com, even though it will lead you to www.wmata.com
Wow - another stroke of transit marketing genius:
'Metro Opens Doors'
Well, I should hope so - otherwise, how am I going to get on the bus?!?
JD
LOL!!!! The sad part is that they have the "www.metroopensdoors.com" stickers on all of their buses, and on the back of their some of their recently rehabbed buses, and the new Neoplan artics.
That marketing theme is as bad as PAT's "Gold Standard of Service" theme which consists of filthy buses, buses that break down continually, service cuts and fare hikes. They have the ridegold.com stickers on their buses and I've seen a few choice alterations to the web address on the rear bumper by either the public or operators/mechanics.
Systems across the country could do so much better if they dumped their marketing departments and concentrated on actually providing the service.
[Systems across the country could do so much better if they dumped their marketing departments and concentrated on actually providing the service.]
Nah... That would just give them an excuse to hire politically-connected consultants at triple the money.
It would be better to have an advertising budget, but spend it only on public timetables, call centers, and maybe some of the operations. (After all, the best way to marketing one's service is to serve one's market.)
Why don't they do television commercials ever? I've seen one SEPTA commercial way back when I taped an epidsode of Ducktales. It said thank you...SEPTA never says that anymore...
I think WMATA still does run commercials for metroopensdoors.com. I haven't seen it lately though.
The last time SEPTA ran a TV ad, as I recall, was during a 3 month or so period after the 1998 City/Frontier strike. It basically introduced SEPTA's new (at the time) slogan "Serious About Change."
There was a similar ad campaign after the 1995 work stoppages which introduced the slogan "At Your Service", which I thought was just plain dumb.
The only other TV ad I recall was one which featured that world famous A-list actor Jean Claude Van Damme (right, like I'm going to ride SEPTA because some washed up actor says so?)
Starting early last year, the "Serious About Change" slogan was removed from virtually all SEPTA timetables, posters, and advertising with ... No slogan at all. This seems to fit in perfectly with the plans of SEPTA's GM Faye Moore (who I always refer to as "Fearless Leader" - it's a Rocky and Bullwinkle reference, and no it's not that flattering - and makes fewer public appearances than your typical old school Soviet leaders), which seems to be not to promote the system at all. Consider this:
At NJ Transit Board Meetings, the executive director's report includes operational highlights, progress reports on certain capital projects, and recognition of employees (mostly those who recently retired from the company). The ED both presents it to the board in written format as part of the agenda and addresses the board at the start of the meeting (often running over a few talking points). At SEPTA Board Meetings, it's a little bit different.
When Jack Leary was in charge, he went out of his way to mention some operational highlights as well as recognize employees. Fearless Leader, on the other hand, doesn't even report mention any operational highlights during SEPTA Board Meetings, and uses her time ONLY to honor employees. The GM's report is often posted on line two months after the Board meeting and is not included in the minutes of SEPTA Board meetings, unlike at NJT.
Sorry for the long post, but I had to rant about how poorly SEPTA is marketed to the region...
I'd like to find the one that Streetcar Mike details in his fansite about the one from 1979-80 that heralded the coming of the RTS and Grumman ADBs; Arlo Guthrie's "City Of New Orleans" was played on their TV spot. Does anyone know where to find a tape of this?
-F.
Nah... That would just give them an excuse to hire politically-connected consultants at triple the money
They do that already. LOL. You can't breathe at some systems unless you hire a consultant do a study anymore.
Marketing isn't what it used to be in transit. Back in the 60's and 70's, the marketing department usually consisted of a 1-4 people who marketed the service that was there and tended to stay out of operations way.
Today you have a staff of 10 or more in many systems, most of who are lucky they know what a bus looks like since they won't ride the system they market, market services that simply don't exist and impede the operations of the system and bleed off the ever decreasing operational funding for rediculous schemes that do nothing to increase the ridership.
Case in point is PAT with the Gold Standard of Service scheme they cooked up. Gold Standard means good service (one would think), something PAT has always had problems providing. We ended up with most of the fleet painted up in a marketing theme which included a new system logo instead of a few theme buses painted to promote the concept. Now that they dumped the Gold Standard theme since most everyone in the county just laughed at it, we're now ordering new buses in yet another rediculous theme with existing buses to eventually be repainted in the new theme. The waste is astronomical in having to stock over 15 different colors of paint, stocking numerous different decals of various types and sizes for the marketing theme, stocking numerous different flooring colors, and stocking different colors of seating material all because the marketing department dictates how the buses are equipped, not operations (who actually have to deal with the buses).
They also have some commerative 30th Anniversary gifts for purchase including a commerative mug with a Flxible new look on it (a must for Flxible fans like myself).
Mmmmmmm .... Flxible coffee ....
JD
(serious Flxible fan)
Would be nice to have a WMATA bus retrospective with photos of all of the buses that they either inherited and bought, well I mean a rep from each of the series they have.
I meant metro retrospective book with bus photos.
Wasn't there a 25th Anniversary book? I know it basically wasnt' of the buses, but I'm sure there were a lot of Metrobus pics.
The 25th anniversary book is available on the WMATA website. Can anyone comment if it's worth buying?
JD
Yeah...and what all is pictured in it? Has anyone seen this book yet?
-F.
I have it, it is for MetroRail, not MetroBus. Mentions the buses and has a few pictures but it focuses primarily on MetroRail.
Ah poop....well, does it have any good pics of some Flxibles or Fishbowls? I'm sure Bredas are all over it.
-F.
"The 25th anniversary book is available on the WMATA website. Can anyone comment if it's worth buying?"
From a bus only prospective it’s nothing to write home about. From an over all WMATA prospective it is well worth it. Lot of background on the development of the agency. Lot of great pictures of the construction of the system and operation along with behind the sense pictures both bus and rail. I purchased 2 copies of the volume one is still in the shipping shrink wrap.
John
A Metrobus 30th anniversary book would be awesome. I'd buy it!
JD
I know...it would be so cool to see one with the 1959 Fishbowls on it in the old Aqua and Silver colors, and maybe some PCC streetcars...bat the Flxible New Look was a GREAT move for this one.
I'm going to the site right now to see this mug. If I don't get back to the next thread, you will all know that I have fainted.
-F.
I did the same Homer Simpson double-take when I learned of this as well. I want a truckload of these things....a whole FLEET of them.
-F.
(Flxible fan to the BONE!!!!).
I wish more systems would pay attention to their past.
I'm going to have to get myself one of those mugs...
WMATA is so user-friendly. What I mean is that it's generally a company that really thinks of its costumers and treats them well.
Oh my GOD I want one of those!!! I will drink my coffee from it every day!!! I recently found a Flxible New Look belt buckle, and it has stayed on my torso since the day I got it. Gotta get these!
-F.
The mug is neat; if only they would show the whole Flx without that logo in the way. I didn't realize the Flxible New Looks used to be in the old aqua and silver colors; what vintage are those..the 6800s? And when did the red, white, and blue scheme come along? I would assume 1974 when the AM Generals arrived, but I may be wrong.
I'm really surprised that WMATA didn't get any of the Corgi Fishbowls to add to their collection on the site store. Those are really neat; I have two of them at home.
-F.
I just looked at a Washington times website and saw that the DC government may put in a bus lane when they rebuild K street in five years and converting it into a light rail line in about ten. According to the article, a bus lane would cost as little as 8 million dollars per mile, and a conversion to light rail would cost 20 million dollars per mile. They wanted to build light rail now but they don't have the money to do it right now. The line would run about 1 and a half mile, from the soon to open Washington Convention center, ending at Washington Circle, with extensions to Georgetown and to Union Station. They most likely would use stop pre-emption system to keep the buses running as fast and could run either in the middle of the road or running on the sides like K street is configured right now with the service road type road on the sides. Bus that run along K street would be diverted to H, L and I streets.
Buses they would use would be 60 foot and have four doors, like the one that visited DC a couple of weeks ago.
My opinion is just to run regular artics along K street from the Rosslyn Metro Station along M Street then along K street and to the Convention Center and then to Union Station along Massachusetts Avenue to Union station, or just get rid of cars along the service roadway along K street and put bus routes there. Just my opinion.
Yes, I would like to know where do I go to get all if possible MTA bus and subway schedules. Where is the place located and what bus do I take to get there not to mention the address. Thank you!
-Ronnie
NYCTA-Headquarters
370 Jay Street
Brooklyn, NY
Jay Street-Boro Hall IND Station.
Peace,
ANDEE
Why dont you just go to MTA.info and print them out yourself.
MTA Headquarters at 370 Jay St Brooklyn,NY. Take the A,C,or F trains to Jay St-Boro Hall station.Make sure you are at the front of the station if your coming from further down in Brooklyn or in the back of the station if your coming from Manhattan.By bus you can take a whole lotta buses.To name some,B26,B57,B61,B67,B75.Those are the ones that pass right by MTA H.Q.,all the others within a block or more. All you have to do once you get there is go through one set of doors and to your right is the Travel Info Center.You can see it before you go inside.
What are the hours of operation of the Travel Info Center.
Michael
I think,if I remember correctly,it's from 8AM-5PM Weekdays only.
in brooklyn it is 370 Jay St(A or C train from Port Authority)
This morning, I was on an X3 and saw an X14 pull into the stop at Narrows and Hylan Blvd. This is what the destination Sign said:
X14 West Midtown
X14 57th Street
X14 via Water
X14 via FDR Drive.
Since when does The X14 run downtown on Water Street???
Also, concerning the X3 and X4 - This is what their signs say - I used only the X3 but both say the same
X3 Downtown
X3 Vesey Street
X3 via Church
X3 via Chambers
The X3 and X4 don't turn down Chambers and I don't ever remember them doing so - They turn down Murray Street to Vesey Street @ WFC.
Any other paradoxes???
Only one I can think of is:
Bus Not In Service.
Welcome Aboard.
I once saw a Bx7 with the first few characters stuck on "Not In Service." As a result, the sign read:
NOT RIVERDALE
NOT 263 ST
Which, of course, was NOT the case!
Spotted this morning at 188 & Union Turnpike on the Q75:
Queens Village can add another suburban to local seat conversion to it's list:
RTS 9257, which has been repainted, has been converted to local seating similar to the Orion conversions.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
What are the other conversions at Queens Village?
Ray
this could be a good thing. i home it happens to 9295-9341 at Ulmer park. anyone know which others have been done besides #146 and #9257?
This is the correct truth. I talked to a driver on the b68 today comning home and this is what he told me.
50 of the new Orion VII are currently at Jackie Gleason along with the demonstrator model. Apparently, 2 per day have been comning in from Lodi,NJ. The Orion VII will not be in service until the summer of 2003-probably waiting till all the drivers at JG are trained on the bus.
Also, look out for the B43 to move to JG come the next pick. This will unfortunely, make JG not lose any of the RTS buses. So for those expecting to see the 8000's move from JG to either Fresh Pond or Ulmer Park, its not happening soon. I will be by JG garage either tomorrow or Monday to get a picture of the Orion VII. When i do, i will let you all know.
Doesn't make sense! You mean at least 50 are are already at JG and most will sit idle for several months?
50???????? Thats impossible, theres no damn room at JG, and on top of that JG has over 300 buses there. I'll call the Yard Dispatcher tomorrow, I know him through my mom.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
#7560 is on track 19 in the garage-according to what ive been told.
Actually, it's #7566.
Are there any more coming besides that one?
If the B48 (what I presume you mean) comes to JG, then something else has to go out. JG has about 325 buses. If the Orion VIIs are on-property there, than I would say in all likelihood, considering UP has no room in it (otherwise the B82 would be there), B8, welcome back to ENY!
supposdly, the B8 will be split between ENY and JG(that makes sense,1 run starts by Rockaway Av-the other run starts at VA Hospital). Ill be by the garage either tomorrow or monday and will see if the Orion VII are there.
Nah the B8 is not going back to ENY, according to JG Yard Dispatcher.
How then can they fit almost 350 buses in that garage? Something has to go, or at least be split with another garage (maybe if the Queens takeover happens, than this could happen, with the B61 possibly moving to the Triboro facility). (even when all the RTSs are shipped out, there should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 345 buses, 344 if #811 gets scrapped.) This is of course barring the fact that other yards are used to store Gleason buses, as ENY does, storing active buses under the L train tracks and in a Herkimer Street yard.
I have heard that there may have been a Crosstown Depot in the past. Why was it closed down? (This would be perfect right now for the B61, B24, B43, and B48, and could relieve the stress on JG [and FP] right now.)
Don't listern to all the rumors you hear or read first of all. The B-61 will not be going anywhere until at least 2005 when the new Maspeth Depot hopefully opens and then again that could always change.
Re: Crosstown Depot is located at Commercial and Box Street where the B-43 line currently terminates. It was originally a streetcar yard and was converted to a trolley coach yard in the late 1940's as well.
It was closed in June of 1952 after all the streetcar lines assigned their were converted to buses but because of a fire that destroyed the overhead wires near the depot. At that time the then Board of Transportaion which operated the buses and the subways find that they could store all trolley coaches at Bergen Street and all coaches were transferred there. The facility was unused to the summer of 1955 when it was reopened as a bus depot because the TA had lost several depots in 1952 and 1954 due to highway construction.
The following routes were assigned their originally:B18,B24,B29,B39,B53,B59,B61 . Later on the B 24 and B29 were consolidate into one line and the B53 was transferred to Fresh Pond. I recall that the B 54 and possibly the B 38 may have been in Crosstown in the late 1950's but i am not sure. After trolley coach operation ended in July of 1860 the B-48 and B-62 operated from Crosstown. When the B-24 Shuttle was redesignated the B-30 in 1974 the depot had 8 routes B18,B24,B30,B39,B48,B59,B61,B62.
Crosstown could only hold approx 85 to 90 buses at the most and was closed in the fall of 1981 as the TA felt that the depot was not needed and that the routes could be assigned to the other 5 depots.The routes were moved as follows:To ENY-B62, FA(now Gleason) B61 FLAT-B48 and to FRESH POND-B18,B24,B30,B39,B59
BTW-Crosstown only had outdoor storage only.
After the depot was closed it was used for storage for the Subways Right of Way trucks and for bus storage. It has since been converted to the DOB's Major Paint shop.
Hope this helps
Thank You
The one thing I remember about XT before they closed is that they had mainly 8000 series(1966 TDH-5303's A/C with Batwings and if i am not mistaken some 9000 series Flxibles as well).
When XT closed, some or all of their 9000 series Flxibles went to FLU (CS). I once rode one on the Q27 and the farebox still had "XT" on it. The 8000 series at XT were mainly 8041-8080. They later received 8030(?)-8040 from FP.
[Nah the B8 is not going back to ENY, according to JG Yard Dispatcher.]
Yard dispatchers don't get to decide which routes are assigned to which depots. Such decisions are made by high-level Department of Buses management (i.e. borough General Managers and above).
Well He has all the head information and the people who decide that said that the B8 will not be going back to ENY.
The B43 already is in Jackie Gleason Depot. There are currently no plans to move any routes into or out of the depot -- of course, this is always subject to change by the Department of Buses.
As to going to the depot to photograph the buses, I would advise anybody who is not an NYCT employee not to try to enter a depot (buildings, yards, ANYTHING) without obtaining authorization (and "that driver over there told me I could" is NOT authorization).
David
Wrong! When Maspeth Depot is here, lines will be departing from JG.
I said there are CURRENTLY no plans to move any routes. There is CURRENTLY no Maspeth Depot. Of course routes will move around when the new depot opens! That's not for a while, though.
David
Oops, My Fault, LOL
Does this mean that the "warranty" issue or whatever it was has been resolved, and we can expect the Orion VII HEVs and New Flyer Artics to be arriving soon?
No disrespect, but this story sounds absolutely ridiculous. There is no way 50 new buses are going to arrive into a garage and not be used until ALL operators are trained on them. Those buses would be going into service from the first week, with only the trained operators driving them at first. Why wait till every B/O is trained in the garage to start operating an entire line of buses? Where would they even have room to store 50 unused buses? How long has this driver been on the job who told you this story? Three days perhaps?
I also question this story about the B43 move. I haven't heard anything about that even though I work out of Fresh Pond. Gleason would not have enough room to accomodate another bus line with the recently added B8 and the plans are for them to become an all CNG depot as soon as possible, so keeping those RTS's is not in the cards. I hope you or someone can definitely get over to J.G. to confirm these stories (or rumors) and I'll find out more info when I return to work next week.
BIG AL
I'll call the yard dispatcher maybe today or tomorrow, because theres no way in hell there can be 50 Orion VII stored in JG.
I had business in Jackie Gleason Depot today. All 50 were there -- disguised as Orion Vs, New Flyer C40LFs, and RTS-6s by various manufacturers.
In actuality, the only Orion VII in Gleason is 7566. It's not in service yet.
David
David,
When a new bus arrives on the property how is it delivered and what is the procedure to place the bus in service upon its arrival.
Thank You
Hm..not sure about NYCTA's procedures, but usually the manufacturers deliver their buses with their drivers. Once the new bus arrives on the property, it is inspected by mechanics and there is a grace period before the TA takes over the bus. If any problems are found in that period, the manufacturer is responsible for coming up with solutions and fixed it. Meanwhile, drivers will be trained on the new buses especially if the bus model is new to that TA. When there are enough drivers qualified and the performance of the bus is satisfying, the TAs will send out the new buses on streets.
BTW, is this the CNG Orion VII order that is arriving, or the hybrids?
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
It will be the CNG order since its going to Jackie Gleason which is the only CNG depot at this time.
The hybrids are not due to be delivered to the 2nd quater of this year
which does not begin until April 1st
Thank You
The Orion VIIs being delivered now are from the CNG order.
This is the CNG Order and is assigned to Jackie Gleason Depot.
Wait, how the hell could there be 50 OrionVII's at JG? There's no way they could fit 50 more buses with the 315 that are already theree. Maybe you should actually drop by JG depot, and see this for yourself. I'm sure the others here are not convienced that this is true.
All fans of the RTS buses. Be warned: Ulmer Park #4792 is scheduled to be the next one to be scrapped. i was on it today. The driver informed be about a book in the garage that lists when buses are to be scrapped. This one is next. #4755, sadly has allready be scrapped. It was removed from Ulmer Park this week.
B1-#9331-NOVABUS
B64-#4792-RTS II-04(scrapped soon)
B68-#8678-TMC
B64-#4792-RTS II-04(scrapped soon)
I don't mean to nitpick, but 4792 is an RTS-06.
Caine824, take it from a supervisor who spends alot of time around the maintainence department. There is no set schedule or order the depot keeps on which buses are going to be scrapped. Buses get scrapped generally when something major like engine problems suddenly happen or other major defects are plaguing the bus. For instance, if the engine in 4791 suddenly blew and 4793 got involved in a major accident, those would be the next buses scrapped. 4792 would still keep chugging along. If 4792 was the next bus to be scrapped, you would not have been riding on it that day. Scrapping decisions are generally made on a last minute basis, after the bus is evaluated and deemed not safe for service or not worth repairing. But there can be no order of which bus is getting scrapped first because nobody can predict what the future holds, unless the depot has new buses arriving-in which case Ulmer Park does not right now.
BIG AL
Just got this in an e-mail today:
Los Angeles Board Votes to Award Contract
to NABI for 60-Foot BRT Vehicles
Press Release
February 27, 2003
Los Angeles Board Votes to Award
Contract to NABI for 60-Foot BRT Vehicles
North American Bus Industries (NABI) and the Los
Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority
reached another milestone in U.S. public
transportation together today, as the Los Angeles
board voted its intent to award a $138.9 million
contract to NABI for 200 advanced-design 60-foot
low-floor articulated buses powered by compressed
natural gas. Although the award is contingent upon
available state funding, the MTA considers it among
the agency’s highest capital program priorities.
The new model of buses, which features three doors and
“railcar-like” styling, will be deployed primarily on
Los Angeles’ expanding bus rapid transit (BRT)
network, which will comprise 24 routes and 356 miles
of service. Delivery of the base order of buses is
projected for 2005. Some will be deployed on the
city’s new $329.5 million San Fernando Valley Metro
Rapid Transitway BRT line.
“This is wonderful news for us as well as the people
of Los Angeles,” said Patrick Rona, President and
Chief Executive Officer of NABI. "We look forward to
working with L.A.’s public transportation officials to
fulfill their vision of a BRT network as a
cost-effective solution to such problems as traffic
congestion and air pollution."
“The MTA Board has been committed over the past few
years in modernizing our bus fleet and improving the
quality of service for our riding passengers,” added
MTA Board Chairman Hal Bernson. “These new high
capacity buses, once in service, will help carry more
people quicker on Metro Rapid routes than conventional
40-foot buses.”
The Los Angeles contract when executed will also
contain options for up to 400 additional advanced
designed articulated buses. These options if exercised
would also be powered by CNG.
Bet those will be some neat coaches to ride!
-F.
Here is Part 2 of what I was sent:
NABI received an order for the delivery of 200 CNG
driven 60-foot long articulated buses from Los
Angeles. Delivery of the buses will begin in 2005.
On February 27, 2003 the LACMTA Board of Directors
approved the purchase of 200 low-floor high capacity
60-foot articulated buses powered by compressed
natural gas as the final installment of the Board's
original plan to purchase nearly 2,100 new buses. The
articulated buses seat 50 percent more passengers than
a standard 40-foot bus.
"The MTA Board has been committed over the past few
years in modernizing our bus fleet and improving the
quality of service for our riding passengers," said
MTA Board Chairman Hal Bernson. "These new high
capacity buses, once in service, will help carry more
people quicker on Metro Rapid routes than conventional
40-foot buses."
The actual execution of the contract to purchase the
200 articulated buses is contingent on funding from
the State's Traffic Congestion Relief Program (TCRP),
which has been temporarily suspended.
After the announcement of the decision Andy Rácz,
Chief Executive Officer of NABI Group said the
following: "We greatly appreciate the confidence of
LACMTA in our company and products, which is well
evidenced by this contract". He also added "NABI
trusts California will be able to secure the required
resources to conclude its Traffic Congestion Relief
Program and accomplish its objectives."
Total value of the contract exceeds US$ 138 million or
US$ 0.6 million per vehicle. To finance the purchase
of the vehicles, LACMTA will use funds previously
allocated for exercising its option for 350 NABI 40LFW
CNG buses connected to a previous procurement.
Delivery of the new state-of-the art buses will begin
in 2005.
The new buses will feature an advanced aerodynamic
design, larger passenger windows, three large doors
for entry and exit, comfortable seating for up to 60
passengers and will be significantly quieter than
existing models.
Sad to say, I have a funny feeling these will wipe out LA's Flxibles.
-F. :(
Fred, the Flxibles are already on their way out. Some of the 1990 Flxibles are already stored/retired. LA only has about 150 Flxibles in service, if that. That's the lowest for any representative of the 40ft. bus fleet with the exception of the Orion VI. Other than that, there are over 400 New Flyers, 600 Neoplans, almost 800 RTS, and almost 1,000 NABI's. I don't see the Flxibles lasting thru the summer.
Oh, no...I thought there were some 1992 models there as well? No WONDER there are so many LA Flxibles showing up on eBay. And yes, I have noticed an influx of NABIs shown in Los Angeles all over the media.
-F.
They have 33 1992 Flixbles. It's really sad. If they had only 100 or so more Flxibles, LA would have THE PERFECT bus fleet and a rep from all of the major buiders/brand names.
Actually there are only 31 1992 Flxibles running, 2924 and 2932 have been lost to fires (I believe).
And there are only about 10 of the 1990 Flxibles (2800s) still running, so there are less than 50 Flxibles total running for MTA :(
Here is one of the LACMTA Flxible ended up here in Northern California...
It was interesting to see the LACMTA Flxibles in El Monte Division will heads down and tail up...
Is this a special design?....coz I have noticed that VTA Flxibles are like that too...
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Not it would wipe out flxibles at LAMTA,The good old TMC RTS's at LAMTA would be wipe out as well. This would be a sad day when all the Flxibles and RTS's would be gone :(
And LA at one point was RTS City but now it's becomming NABI Central.
Yes, can you believe five years ago, there were like 1,800 RTS buses in LA?
And from what I've seen, they haven't ordered enough NABI buses to wipe out half of the RTS, let alone the whole fleet which consist of alot of late model RTS.
Well close--once the last RTS-06s were received in 1993 (the Methanol-powered 1200-1502, since coverted to diesel), then-SCRTD
theoretically had a total of 1,678 RTSs, dating back to the huge 940 bus order of 1980/1981. In reality, a handful of the 1980/81 RTSs were already out of service (I know 9135 was an early casualty due to a fire), but it's safe to say at that time, well over 1,600 RTSs were plying the streets of L. A. County. 10 years later there are maybe 1/4 of that many left.
Unlike the Flxibles, there should be some RTS around for awhile. Even
though the 1200s are 10 years old, due to the repowering to diesel, their engines are only 3-4 years old, so some should be around until at least the end of the decade.
Seeing this one all the time these days; a Subway employee is riding a NABI in LA Metro colors and greets a friend that boards on. He asks him about their specials, and he tells him about the Chicken Club or something to that effect. Meanwhile, the product is shown. After this, the stop bell rings, and people flock out by the droves at the stop in front of Subway. The smiling sub guy and his friend exchange high fives as they look out the side windows and say, "We've gotta do this more often." Funny commercial, and it shows a bus!
Has anyone seen this commercial? Just thinking about it makes me hungry for a sub...LOL.
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I believe it is a Neoplan
Whoops...the darn thing ran around so fast, I thought it was a NABI!
-F.
>>> I believe it is a Neoplan <<<
I haven't seen the commercial, but if it shows people getting off, it should not be hard to determine which it is. All of LACMTA's Neoplans are high floor buses and all of their NABIs are low floor buses. If they want to show a lot of people getting off quickly, I would presume they would use the low floor NABI.
Tom
Has anyone caught that 'Subway' commerical with the 2 guys conversing on a bus. As they do so, they imply how Subway is so good with the new sandwich deal there. Everyone gets interested and leaves once the bus stops in front of the 'Subway'.
The point I'm trying to make is does anyone have any idea what kind of bus it is and who made it?
I thought it was a NABI but was told it was a Neoplan. Come to think of it, it did have that Euro-looking front end, and the driver's window comes down at an angle instead of the usual straight-across.
-F.
The exterior of the bus was definitely a Neoplan, most likely a 1984 model (I didn't get too good of a look at the number). The tell-tale sign that it was an older Neoplan diesel and not one of the newer CNG Neos is the pantograph doors as opposed to the slide-glide doors on the new Neos. It fooled me for a moment since it was in the newer LACMTA paint scheme.
Yeah....those doors are neat. Wonder why they switched...were they more troublesome? They remind me of the RTS. I always liked those type of doors.
-F.
Hmm., good...good. Any pictures of one of 'em?
No doubt the bus in that comercial is a Neoplan.
The PAT Neoplan Metroliners have the older styling door. I would guess that the reason Neoplan doesn't use the doors much anymore, would be they are too problematic. They constantly fall out of alignment and often only one half of the door will open. The Metroliners are fairly new, but, from day one, the doors were problematic. The biggest problem is, part of the door comes very close to the drivers mirror but is not supposed to hit it. Well, often that part of the door gets stuck and then flies open, smacking the drivers mirror. Some drivers don't really care, but, for those that are very particular about how their mirror is set, it drives them mad!
I prefer the modern type of doors myself.
It is probably an ex-RTD/MTA 1984 Neoplan, since all of those are now reitred. Many of them were repainted into the current LACMTA "yellowjacket" color scheme.
I suspected as much. The pantograph doors were a dead giveaway...
It looks like #3476, the "476" part is visible...but judging from the Neoplan itself, it look like an older Neoplan, possibly #3476...
I was thinking it was #6476, that's a 1995 Neoplan AN440A CNG, but the bus looked pretty old, and why would they use newer buses in commercials like that? So, I figured it must be 3476...it couldn't be one of the 1983 Neoplans, those are 1100s not 1400s, and they are suburban...that Neoplan looked like a transit-style model...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Actually, 3476 is a perfectly valid number for a 1983-84 LACMTA (SCRTD) Neoplan, transit spec. They were numbered 3300-3714.
The 1100-series suburban Neoplans to which you refer were 1987 models.
Yes, and I know 3476 had been repainted into the current LACMTA color scheme. 3476 was one of about 20 Neoplans that were leased by ATE Management & Service (now First Transit) for use on several lines that MTA had contracted to them in 1996. Subsequently it was returned to MTA who then repainted it in the new colors.
I'm not sure who made that bus but I do know that that bus is from the Metro transit authority in Los Angeles.
Just thought you folks would like to see our newly updated local busfan sites:
www.valleymetro.com
This will give you an idea of what I ride every day.
Also, our local transit museum now has expanded info...
www.commonwealthcoach.com
Some of the buses pictured are what I grew up riding.
There's plenty of pics to be found at each site, so enjoy!
-F.
I love that into on Valley Metro's website. Nice Looking 2001 Gillig Phantom!
Yeah, and nice flash too..
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Heh, when I saw valleymetro.com, I at first thought it was a site for Valley Metro in Phoenix (until I saw the remark about a 2001 Gillig Phantom--Phoenix VM has NO Gilligs in its fleet). Still, a nice site.
Also the commonwealth site is cool--I went to college in Hampton, VA for one year (1975-76) and Pentran received the 600s about a week or so before I left, on my next to last day I got to ride one, so I'm glad one has been preserved.
I like both of those websites. The valleymetro.com has a better intro than valleymetro.org, which has a bunch of NABI photos.
By the way, Phoenix DOES have 7 1990 Gillig Phantom buses that are used on only 2 lines that go to Glendale, AZ. There is even a picture on the City of Glendale Transportation Website . Although it is in old colors (all Gilligs are now in new colors AFAIK) but trust me-it IS a Gillig.
Which fleet of buses have their numbers printed on the roof of the bus? This is interesting to see, as I have seen this instance numerous times while I ride the #2 or any elevated portion of a subway line passing streets.
What is the purpose of having the bus # on the roof?
In case there is ever an emergency, the bus can be easily found by helicopter police. Usually this is the norm in larger cites in California. Ever seen "Speed"? After you do, you'll know why.
-F.
Yes... 2525. :) I think someone on here has the name 'Fishbowl 2525.' Hilarious! :D
I'd wish they do a sequel for it, despite the real lack of it happening. Besides, I think Keanu Reeves is too busy dealing with the Agents. :)
Wasn't there a Speed 2 sometime long ago? Oh, also, about Speed, I'm sure the passengers are glad they didn't govern that bus below 55mph, like a certain company I know of does to their buses.
There was a Speed 2, it took place on a boat. It was a real box office bomb. A regular craptacular.
Peace,
ANDEE
HERE'S ALL THE GORY DETAILS
Peace,
ANDEE
I agree.....that's putting it mildly, actually.
That had to be one of the worst pieces of cinematography I ever wasted money on. My teenage stepson can do better with the 8mm videocam -- all the shots looked like they were done by a drunken cameraman without the benefit of a tripod.
Well from my experiences:
All LACMTA buses have numbers on the roof, going back to the
SCRTD days in the 60s and 70s. I think the Blue Line LRVS have
roof #s also, not sure about the new Siemens P2000s on the Green Line, or the Red Line cars (if you saw a roof # in "Speed" that was strictly for the movie). I think Long Beach Transit may have roof #s, I know
Gardena Municipal Bus Lines does (with a "G" in front of the 3-digit fleet #)
Here in South Florida, Mimai-Dade Transit does not have roof #s on any of its buses (or Metrorail or Metromover cars). Broward County Transit has them only on the Gillig Advantage buses which date from 1999,none on the older buses. Not sure about PalmTran.
The 4900 series RTS housed at Queens Village have the number on the bus roof.
All but 4902. When the 4900s get repainted, the numbers are painted over.
#4902 Q46
In Case the buses are hijacked or in a criminal situation, the numbers on the top is for Helicopter Police use.
For a while (and maybe still) New Flyer put roof numbers on all of its buses by default. New Flyers in Detroit and Ann Arbor have roof numbers, whereas none of the other buses in those fleets do.
Just found a big "Whoops" on eBay. There is a T-shirt from The Bus (Honolulu, Hawaii) that is pretty neat but with one small boo-boo....it is listed as featuring a Grumman bus, but the shirt has a Gillig Phantom on it instead! Couldn't help but shake my head at that one.
-F.
Fred,
Can you provide the link? I tried to search the item but was successful enough...
Thanks a lot in advance~
NA Transit - Northern California
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I just saw a report on the news this morning that the Massachusetts Bay Trans.Authority (MBTA) is proposing a fare hike for Jan. 2004 as part of their FY2004 budget. The proposal would raise base local bus fare from .75 to $1.00, subway base fare from $1.00 to $1.25. Public hearings will need to be held before any fare hikes take effect. The MBTA proposes the fare hike to counter a drop in ridership and rising costs of fuel,salaries, etc.
Mark
Why doesn't the MBTA raise the fares of the buses, trolleys and subway trains all to $1.25? There should just be one base transit fare to make things easier.
I'm guessing they are considered two completely different units/divisions, like SEPTA transit and SEPTA regional rail. However, WMATA's Metrorail and Metrobus do have the same fare...well, an increase from $.75 to $1.25 is kinda outrageous...
Yesterday AM enroute to a client I encountered a bus from Commercial Driver Training School of West Babylon at the intersection of Straight Path and Rte 109, West Babylon, NY.
CDT is a school that teaches truck and bus driving....They have had several ex-NYBS fishbowls and Bee Line (Westchester) modified RTS slopebacks....
This bus was an ex - NJT MC-9. It had the white "cap" in the front. Couldn't get close enough to see what the number was..
Trevor and everyone else----Any idea ?
i was on the B12 early and i see mostly Nova & TMC only 1 GMC
GMC-RTS: 4420
TMC-RTS: 4642, 8342, 8695
Nova-RTS: 4966, 5010, 5217, 5238-5239, 8922, 9060
#8922 B12
The B12 goes directly passed my School in East New York.
i was on the B12 early and i see mostly Nova & TMC only 1 GMC
GMC-RTS: 4420
TMC-RTS: 4642, 8342, 8695
Nova-RTS: 4966, 5010, 5217, 5238-5239, 8922, 9060
#8922 B12
?
i would have to say that most of the nova show up on the B15 B82, Q24, Q56 i guess causes they go to rich area they have to keep up with the other dept
#4945 - B82
#4992- B82
#4996 - B82
#5001 - B82
The B15 and Q24 goes through rich areas?? Hah!!! The B15 goes to JFK and the Q24 likes its sister, the Q56 goes to Jamaica.
B15#4987
B22#5241
B56#8701
Yeah, that's like saying the B57 goes through some rich areas. LOL
Yes, but since the B15 goes to JFK, it uses the expressway, at least eastbound, and thus needs better buses. The B15 and B82 are probably ENY's crown jewels, requiring the most new equipment.
BTW, the B22 and B56 (and the B15's old name, the B10) were gone well before 5241 (the current one, not the Fishbowl) and 8701 came in.
Why do the 49xx, 50xx and the 51xx buses out of ENY have a red sticker just below the bus number on the front??
For a time they were fueling them during the day instead at night due to all the buses assigned there. If they are still doing it that way I do not know.
all the 1999 Novas have that red stickes on it becauses these buses will go out everyday so that red stick makes sure they get re-fuel everynight unlike the rest of the fleet but i was on the B60 early and #8340 had red stickes
You welcome
5222 - B60
8340 - B60
Yes, I saw 8340 with red stickers as well.
B14#8340
along with buses (not a complete list) 8106, 8109-8112, 8116, 8121, 8346. I think that it may actually mean Detroit Diesel series 50 engine. However, why does 8094 not have it?
TCC Orion # 3039 now has the Orange sign on it. Triboro Coach Corp.Looks like the orange signs are here to stay I saw this bus thursday afternoon around 4:40 PM on the QM24.
I bet you that QSC Onion 555 will be the next bus that will receive this Orange sign because it is on the Q104 today. The sign is not working at all. It was on the QM1 on Wednesday with paper signs all over the windows.
I'll be on the lookout.
#555 Q104
Anouther one that is without a sign is #477. I saw this yesterday at the QM4 Bus Stop at 6 Ave and 36 st. I got pic of #477 and the QM4 Paper signs.(The last link,Pic #3.The pic looks a little bad but it's lookable).
Pic #1. http://www.geocities.com/derekinn1996/QM4OrionVCNG477.jpg
Pic #2. http://www.geocities.com/derekinn1996/QM4.jpg
Pic #3. http://www.geocities.com/derekinn1996/anoutherqm4sign.jpg
Would this be the Balios orange LED signs? (QV bus 522, Hale bus 247, AMS bus 428, Command bus 4961, and ALL 1998 GBL Orions (55xx) have orange LED signs, but I'm not sure if these signs are all Balios signs.) They are much easier to read than most Luminator signs (except for the 1999 and newer signs, along with the TwinVision signs on 45 RTS buses in Flatbush and ENY depots).
Hmm...I thought AMS #428 had Luminator Horizon orange LEDs...
I may be mistaken on some of these, but I am sure of at least 522, which has a Balios sign. I was not aware of Mark IV making a orange LED as well. Thanks for the info.
522 Q46
5619's block sign now reads OREN. Don't look at me! Of course I wasn't the one who did it!
Eh, fine. I surrender. The driver let me do it and we are going to see if anyone either notices or changes it. Be interesting if it were actually changed to V2, which is what it is susposed to say. The sun was right behind the bus when I got off on Friday so the picture sucks. On Monday, I will try to get a better picture. Then sadly, the sign will probably have to go back to V2 or some variation of that.
Most people on the streets wont know who OREN is ;)
They will now...
I told someone about it tonight and they suggested I change it to PORN. This came up since we were at Tale of an Alergist's Wife, which has more than enough sexual references to last for one night (and to keep it on topic sort of, a subway reference). I won't change it to that though.
Okay, I went to Jamaica, Queens today and here's what I have notice:
#8390 - about to become the Q30 (sitting on Horace Harding Expwy eastbound Service Rd)
#9350 - Q88
#4921 - Q2
#546 - Q76
#625 - Q30
#9287 - Q43 (Re-repainted and sounds like there is something in the engine along with the DD 50 Series Engine. Still has express seats.)
#9549 - Q17 (Saw this bus twice at the same exact spot. First time at 8:15 and then again at 10:45 at Hillside Av/169th St going to Flushing. WEIRD!
#5168 - Q3
#4555 - Q77 (you know how you was a kid and you was riding your bike and you clipped a card onto your wheel to make a sound....that was #4555 today. More like a "Machine Gun")
**********************************************************************
#530 - Q36.....THIS BUS IS NOW AT QUEENS VILLAGE WITH CS STICKERS! Now, Queens Village has Orion buses #107, #144, #146, #154, #505-526, #529-530 and #611-630. Buses #527-528 are still at CS...that was according to the UTCNY Bus Roster.
**********************************************************************
#9364 or #9294? - Q43
#266 - Q20B
#6131 - Q44 LTD
Another Orion bus but I forgot the number
#574 - Q20B
#579 - Q44 LTD
#6130 - Q44 LTD
#558 - Q20B
#572 - Q44 LTD
#634 - Q20B
#9380 - Q30
#507 - Q2
#514 - Q43
#9266 - Q77 (Still has express seats.)
#9070 - Q17
Queens Surface Corporation
#467 - Q65
#524 - QM1A
Green Bus Lines
#5505 - Q60
#5531 - Q60 (On the back of the bus, the part where the back sign has "Q60" is all white BUT the rims or sides where the number "#5531" is gray. What happened there?)
MTA Long Island Bus
#365 - N6 (Usually I see a 100 or 200 on the N6.)
#371 - N22
Suffolk Transit
#9661 - S92
#9919 - S54
Also, I have not been to the city as often but get this....NEW Traffic lights at the following:
Hoover Av and 150th St in Briarwood, Queens (Use to be the Q44 route)
164th St and 85 Av or 85th Dr (Q65 bus route.....it's about time! That's behind Jamaica High School.)
That's all! Enjoy!
Ray
146 is at CS NOT QV. I saw 146 on the Q74 Wednesday. 527-528 are AT QV. Saw 528 on the Q46 Monday with QV Stickers on it.
532 will be the next bus headed to QV as it is sitting in CS under the boardwalk.
GBL 5531 has a new bulk head that was not repainted white.
Look at Triboro 3062 and 3068-they're gray too.
Hope this helps.
#5531 Q60
#146 Q74
#528 Q46
Please forgive me if this question is a 'no-brainer' but does anyone have any idea what, if any, buses have arrived at Casey Stengel within the last year or so. Thanks.
527 and 528 are at QV. I have been on both buses personally on the Q46.
Since when has 522 been at QV?? I saw it on the Q88 this morning, proudly displaying its route in that lovely, orange LED-goodness.
I got 2 pics of 522 on the Q46 last week. However, they're not linked onto the web as of yet. SO if you'd like to see them email me and place in the subject line MTA 522 and I'll be happy to send them to you.
#522 Q46
Well it looks like at least some of NJ Transit's Metro B's are getting a minor rehabbed - I rode 3556 yesterday on the 181, and it had a new seat fabric design and new interior lighting.
BTW - whatever happened to the rehabbing of the 95-96 Novas? I remember there was one (a 2600-something), but I guess this hasn't spread to the rest of the fleet yet?
With the kickback indictments involving Nova and MCI, you can be assured NJT will not order another bus until bid procedures have been changed and checks and balances are implemented. Those Metros will probably have to last at least 2 more years.
They are going to last way more than 2 years.
If they are rehabbed, they can last as long as 21 years- I'm talking 2010! They will definitely last a long time.
That wopuld definitely require a re-power. The 6V92TA doesn't do too well on low-sulfur diesel, and NJT prides itself on using clean diesels since 94. The new Cummins ISL would make a great suburban engine - 30 more horses than the MC9's 6V92 (55 more than the Flx) in a lighter bus.
there 6v92ta engine/tranny is very slow it take like a few mins. just for it to reach 50mph. With it has a top speed of 65mph.
haven't anybody noticed that nycmta, septa, los angeles mta, baltimore mta, washington mta, and other big cities do not have gilligs in their fleet? someone answer me that.
If WMATA never had Gilligs, then what would this be?
WMATA did have Gilligs that were bought by the DC government for use on certain low volume routes in the Anacostia area. I do not believe they ever ran on any high volume routes. I would have loved to see one of those on the even 30s :-)
Gillig won't bid those orders that will come back and bite them in the ass. Where are the 2002 Flxibles? Where are the 2002 RTSs? There also may be some quality issues. Smaller transit authorities might be more able to take care of them than the big ones. They can last, like I mentioned in a post earlier this week I drove a pair of '86 Gilligs with over half-a-million miles on them.
Another case in point, CyRide in Ames, Iowa where a friend of mine works. You can tell that a bus enthusiast runs things there. They have a number of old GM's (some from the '60s and nearing a million miles) as well as some Orion I's with many over half a million miles still in service. They picked up some new Gilligs in '89-'90 and came back for more in '93, '96 and in '99 for some Low Floors. If they were inherently problematic, I'm sure they could have spec'd their orders to make another manufacturer the low bidder if they really wanted to avoid them.
We could go on and on, but this discussion was held last month. Check here: http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=64937
-Mike
Ok, I hope this will not start another argument about Gilligs again...
Take a look at this Metro Magazine survey...
http://www.metro-magazine.com/images/art/0902_Top100.pdf
Look at fleets with more than 1000 buses.
Denver, CO
King County Metro
Port Authority of Allegheny County
And more than 900 buses
Metro Transit
Tri-County Metropolitan Transportation District
They all have certain number of Gilligs in their fleet...not even to mention about medium and small size TAs.
Surprisingly, Baltimore has only 859 buses....
If we were to create a San Francisco Bay Area MTA, adding
Muni: 646
AC: 750(282)
Sam: 321(252)
VTA: 516(476)
GGT: 268
CCCTA: 112(112)
We have 2501 buses around and about 2000 or more will be Gilligs....plus other smaller TAs, like WestCAT, Vallejo Transit, Tri Delta Transit, Wheels, Benicia Transit, Union City Transit, Santa Rosa CityBus, Modesto MAX, Monterey-Salinas Transit, Fairfield-Suisun Transit, Sacramento Regional Transit, San Joaquin Regional Transit District Santa Cruz Metro, Unitrans (Davis) Yolobus in Bay Area...
Conclusion: If Gilligs are just upgraded school bus, why would the TAs still order them? Why not just directly order from Blue Birds, Eldorados, Ford, or even Thomas for even cheaper 40ft buses....I'm sure these school bus manufacturers would be very happy to receive orders from TAs.
Hope this clears things out.
Regards,
NA Transit - Northern California
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Gillig Phantom
Laidlaw Transit Operates Gilligs For Valley Metro In West and North Phoenix metro Areas on Routes 59, 60, 67, 80, 90, 106, 122, 138, 170 & 186 mixed with 35ft RTS and New Flyer LF40.
>>> haven't anybody noticed that nycmta, septa, los angeles mta, baltimore mta, washington mta, and other big cities do not have gilligs in their fleet? <<<
Although LACMTA does not have Gilligs, Foothill Transit (287 buses), which operates former LACMTA routes in the Eastern part of Los Angeles County and into Los Angeles is virtually 100% Gillig and buying new ones.
Tom
That's where you're wrong. Foothill Transit stopped buying Gilligs after their F1100-series Advantages came in in 2000-01. Since then, they have committed to a fleet of standard-floor Orion Vs.
>>> Since then, they have committed to a fleet of standard-floor Orion Vs. <<<
That is hard to believe. No operators in Los Angeles County are buying anything but low floor CNG buses. The current Foothill Web site uses a Gillig Advantage for its Logo. In their March 2003 Bulletin to their riders Foothill states it bought its first 66 CNG buses in 2002. I have seen and ridden on some of those buses. They were Gillig Advantages. What is the source of your information?
Tom
1. Gillig does not manufacture CNG buses. I realize that fuel is more a function of the engine rather than the body, but still, for whatever reason, Gillig does not deal in CNG.
2. Foothill Transit bought a single batch of Gillig Advantages in 2000-01. You can easily tell that none of their Advantages are brand-new because they are all of the older front end/window arrangement design.
3. Foothill Transit indeed did buy CNGs in 2002 - 40-foot standard-floor Orion Vs. They are numbered in the F1200 series, above the Gillig F1100 series. A distinguishing feature of these buses is their multi-color destination signs, and of course, their large, roof-mounted CNG tanks.
But don't believe me. Check Foothill Transit's own website:
http://www.foothilltransit.org/about/fleet.html
Hmm...a mulitcolor destination sign...are there any pics of them?
Ah i remeber see a pdf file back in 2001 that was talking about puting
those signs on buses. i SEE if i can found that pdf file site.
Just got this from Chaffee...
Quote Starts:
"Here is the series of pictures of 2002 FT CNG Orion V
Chaffee
http://www.chaffeeyiu.com
http://www.natransit.com
"Quote Ends
WOW...how neat! So how many TAs out there are useung these? What a great tool to immediately identify route numbers, and the fonts are spectacular! Are these Luminators or another brand? I had great pride in bright orange LEDs all across, but suddenly they look old. We have just found the next best thing!
-F.
TwinVision LeDot's
Nope, those are not LeDots. I believe they are a modified Twinvision All-LED sign. Or as some call it, a Twinvision "Chroma". LeDots are basically Flipdots that are illuminated by LED lights behind the flipdots. Definately not wat is seen in the Photos.
NYC has 45 buses (5100-5124, 523x and 524x) using Green TwinVision signs, not the gold ones shown there. However, one Command bus (4961) has a similar sign like those that Gillig Phantom put up. Also, there is at least one bus using a Balios sign in NYC (522). Also in NYC, all 1998 Green Lines Orion V buses have similar gold signs. However, I am not sure if they are TwinVision, Balios, or Luminator. Similar signs are also on NYBS buses 1800-1805.
Very nice pics of those buses. It's nice to see pics of brand-new Orion V coaches!
Is that destination sign a Luminator Horizon, Twin Vision LeDot or product made by someone else? Are the route numbers that are in different colors programmed in those colors or is there an option where the operator can pick what color his route # will display in?
I think it's unique that this system has chosen to be creative with their signage and am pleased that destination sign technology has come so far along. I remember back in the earlier days of destination sign technology when many buses ran around with readings such as *2&%)+\~U#CA*IY#. My favorite was years ago when one operator I know went to change her sign and somehow a reading that said 'JOYTOY' came up on her sign and would not clear.
As awesome as sign technology is though, I still am inclined to feel that a sign should be one solid color.
>>> Are the route numbers that are in different colors programmed in those colors or is there an option where the operator can pick what color his route # will display in? <<<
It may have something to do with the level of service. The 499 and 699 are both extra cost freeway buses serving mainly park ‘n rides. Buses I saw today had a rudimentary American flag in red white and blue instead of the number on a couple of out of service buses.
Tom
I like multicolor signs...it helps those who are harder of sight to more easily distinguish route numbers, and that is what destination signs were designed for...visibility.
I know what you mean about the early days of LED destination signs...we did not start getting them where I am until 1991, and when we did, they were skimpy Luminators with white dots and blue background that are barely visible. Things did not shape up until our 2001 order, which boasts nice bright orange LEDs on black signs.
Even worse, in our 1994 bus order we got "updated" signs in the same color format, but with double-wide letters and numbers. Unfortunately, with that came stray dots and sometimes illegible characters, such as the *2&%)+\~U#CA*IY# you described. I still can't figure out whether they read in Swahili or if they are simulcasting scripts from "The Osbournes"...LOL.
-F.
There are a few rumors I heard that Gillig does not deal with CNG because:
1. One of the Gillig's management's neighbor had fire in their house that was related to natural gas. Gillig then decided not to build CNG buses due to concerns of the safety of the CNG fuel tanks under the bus.
2. The curved roof of the Gillig Phantom is simply inpossible for installment of CNG tanks and because of the above reason, therefore, there are no GP CNGs...
Now that applies to GP, what about GLF?....
Stephen
PS. LAX has some 35ft LNG GPs powered by Cummins L10G and ZF 5HP590..
NEoplans have curved roofs, and yet they are available with CNGs (check MUNI's Neoplans)
Oh yeah, I guess that wouldn't be a problem for Gillig...
For now, Muni hasn't really decided what alternative fuel to approach to....low sulphur diesel, hybrid, trolley, CNG, LNG, fuel cell, hydrogen...etc. Anyway, the two Neoplan AN440LF CNGs are occasionally in service, particular on route 28. The sound insulation on the Neoplans LF are better and quieter than C40LF and NABI 40LFW CNG with same DDEC Series 50G and Allison B400R. At least you couldn't hear it easily that it's a S50G inside the bus and this makes sound recording really tough....=(
Muni Neoplan AN440LF CNG 9211
LACMTA NABI 40LFW CNG 7314
Hamilton Street Railway New Flyer C40LF 9624
Also...
OCTA NABI 40LFW LNG 2368
For the two Orion VI Hybrid, I haven't seen them quite awhile...
Enjoy,
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
Whoops, I forgot to include a clip of Orion V CNG with DDEC Series 50G and Allison B400R. Anyway, I guess I should include this too though it is a low floor bus related reply....
Sonoma County Transit Orion V CNG 310
Enjoy,
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
>>> Foothill Transit indeed did buy CNGs in 2002 - 40-foot standard-floor Orion Vs. <<<
You are correct of course. I stopped riding Foothill last July when I got a car. I suspect the Orions went into service later. Today I was driving along the San Bernardino Freeway just before the evening rush hour, and more than half the Foothill buses that I saw were CNG Orion Vs.
Tom
I can confirm that Foothill has Orion V CNG's - I spotted some of them at the Orion factory in Oriskany last summer.
JD
VTA Flxible Metro Movie
http://www.natransit.com/video/9251A.mpg
http://www.natransit.com/video/9251B.mpg
Comments welcome....from resolution, file size, sound quality, subtitles to seat/scene selections, views, routes and the bus itself....
Enjoy,
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
Cool yea i saw A yesterday. It has nice sound quality, GFX quality,
KEEP THOSE MOVIES ROLLING!!!!!!!! keep up the good work
BTW what was the top speed of Ac transit 3060 :)
65mph, which is the average of Cummins M11/ISM and Allison B400R. The Gilligs, NABI, Neoplans share the same speed.
NA Transit - Northern California
NA Transit - Transit Sound Clips
NA Transit - Transit Video Clips
Gillig Phantom
Sorry for the lack of a colorful announcement but here goes:
Chatham Square will be held tonight at 7:30 PM ET as it is most Saturday nights. Please click here to enter the room.
Will you be there becouse if you are not there i can't enter the chat with out a active op on mirc!
Since when is that? No, I was unable to attend tonight.
I wasn't able to get in at 7:30 anyway
While the only way for now to get in there is through JAVA . The server owner put up some kind of protection tha provent users to join a channel without ops. My advice is to find another irc server .
Another option (which I prefer) is you or me (preferibly you) e-mailing this person about this very strange restriction. Perhaps enough clamor can get it changed. I can't say changing servers is too urgent since the majority of people in Chatham Square are on the java version as opposed to mIRC.
Strange but true: I have a life outside SubTalk and for the past two weeks, I have been out on Saturday night (and have used public transit to get where I am going in at least one direction, be proud). I think I might be in next Saturday night though.
Recently, I rode Phoenix Valley Metro's Red Line. This joint-operation line is interesting because of the fact that it operates 30-foot ElDorado National EZ-Riders (Tempe) 35-foot 35LFW buses (Tempe) 40-foot buses (Phoenix and Tempe) and 60-foot MAN Artics (Phoenix) ALL ON ONE LINE during weekdays (The 30-footers run weekends).
Also, I noticed that Valley Metro has one express route (521) that uses 35-foot NABI buses (I don't know who owns them).
Are there any other transit systems that operate this size diversity? I have been on the 35-footers and the 40-footers on the Red Line and the 35-footers have been an overcrowding disaster. However, one thing is that they are MUCH more comfortable and MUCH cleaner than the Phoenix NABIs and have no scratchitti.
BTW, I have not seen a single Bolt bus in a VERY long time. Some of the Tempe buses don't even have the TIM logo on them anymore, now all that these buses say is "Owner: City of Tempe" and nothing else.
The 520 and 521 Tempe Express Lines are operated by ATC/RPTA and the buses either come from ATC's 46th street yard or Tempe Forsythe 1st Street Yard (The buses used are sometimes Stored Overnight) at the Tempe Outstation Yard On Southbound Price Road Bewtween Apache Blvd and Broadway Road).
At one time (Pre Valley Metro 1986-1997)
Phoenix Transit (City Of Phoenix) Routes 2/Red (Gilbert Rd/Beardsly Road), 1/Yellow (Tempe/Capitol), Blue, 29/Green ,0,00,3E/3W/3 (Zoo/Tempe/Camelback/Buckeye/Metrocenter/Union Hills),7,8,10,12,15 (Downtown Terminal/Metrocenter),16,17,19,24,27,28,34/Yellow (Grand Avenue), 35 (Southern/T-bird-59 Ave/Beardsly),41,44 (Pv Mall/48 St-Baseline),45,50,
52,61 (Alma School/48 St/Central/43 ave), 80 (59 ave/Pv MAll), 106 (Sun City/Metrocenter/Scottsdale Rd/Mayo Clinic) & All Express Routes
Laidlaw/Mayflower (City Of Phoenix) 59, 60, 90
ATE (RPTA) 4, 72, 156
City Of Scottsdale (Scottsdale Connection) Red/72 (Scottsdale Road), Blue/76/84 (Miller Road/Granite Reef), Green/82 (Hayden Road)
City Of Mesa (Mesa Sunnrunner) Red/96 (Dobson Road/W Broadway Road) Blue/104 (Alma School Road), Yellow/31 (University Drive), Green/46 (E Broadway Road), Brown/120 (Mesa Drive)
had Operated:
GM/Flex 40 ft 1968-1974 (PHoenix Transit)
Grumman/Flex 40 Ft 1975 (PT)
MANN Artics 1979-1981 (Some Accessable) (PT)
GM RTS 2 1981-1983 (35 and 40ft)(All Currently Accessable) (PT)
TMC RTS 4/6 1986-1992 (All Accessable) (PT)
AMGeneral 48 & 51 Passenger 1971 - 1973 (Last Buses On System Without A/C) (PT)
Grumman 870 1978-1983 (PT)
35 Ft Gilligs (All Accessable) 1983-1988 (Laidlaw/Mayflower)
Orian III 1991 - 1992 (All Accessable) (ATE)
El Dorado National 25 Passenger Mini Buses 1990-1992 (All Accessable) (Scottsdale & Mesa)
Bluebird 40 Ft Transit (Modified Schoolbus) 1993-1994 (Scottsdale)
New Flyer Lf40 1996-1998 (All Accessable) (PT)
All In Total 14 Different Bus Models In Service
Total Buses In Service 422
As Of 3/1/03 All Buses In Valley Metro Service Have The Valley Metro Logo Except Tempe Flash, Glendale GUS, Copper Square DASH and Phoenix Transit RTS and New Flyers With Ad Raps.
Tim Can still be seen on Tempe Owned Buses (Seen In Rear Window On Curb Side Of Bus)
This response is a little long, but there is a Valley Metro roster as of 1/1/01 at http://www.valleymetro.org/VM/Busops/procedures/documents2/IFB%20Template.pdf starting at page 90 and going down to page 99 of this document. As of 3/1/03, these are the things that have changed.
1. RPTA Fixed Route Services ATC/Vancom is now ATC RPTA.
2. Forsythe Mesa and Forsythe Tempe are now ATC-Mesa and ATC-Tempe, respectively.
3. Forsythe Scottsdale had some of its routes taken over by ATC-Tempe and the rest was merged into ATC RPTA. That's why there are no more Blue Bird buses anymore- they were replaced with EZ-Riders.
4. Phoenix Transit System is now ATC-Phoenix.
5. The Phoenix roster now has the following:
2001 Eldorado National (4155-4174) These are the DASH buses.
2002 NABI 40LFW (6282-6377) These are all 40 footers and were delivered in January 2002.
2003 NABI 45C-LFW (7101-7156) These are the 45 foot RAPID buses that are on order and will enter service in July.
There are actually 156 1998 NABI 40LFWs.
There are no more 1994 New Flyers (4024-4053) operated by PTS (ATC-Phoenix). In January 2002, half were sold to the RPTA and the other half operate on Laidlaw Transit.
There are no more Specialty Vehicles or Orion II buses. These were retired in 2001. (Old DASH buses)
There are no more 1987 Orion Is in the fleet.
1979 GMC RTS, 1981 GMC RTS, and 1982 GMC RTS are all gone- they were retired with the new NABIs in January 2002. There are some pictures in the 2002 Olympic section of the APTA website of the 1981 RTSs.
7. Some updates to the RPTA roster:
All buses in the RPTA section are operated by ATC-RPTA.
There are no Phoenix-owned buses in the RPTA fleet- this was a roster error I believe.
There are no more 1995 Eldorado Nationals in the RPTA fleet- these are now on sale.
There are no more Gilligs or 1979 RTS buses in the RPTA fleet anymore.
8. An update to the Mesa roster:
2001 NABI 40LFW CNG (6262-6281) These are the buses with the big fuel tanks on top.
None of the Mesa buses are operated by Laidlaw.
9. Some updates to the Tempe roster:
2002 NABI 40LFW (6378-6381) These buses only run the Red Line and are the only Tempe ones with Twin Vision signs.
Some of NJT's Nova 30' and 40' buses are in use on the Green line buses in Jersey City, and another private bus company in the area. Does NJT own any other fleets of buses in its current stock (besides the coaches and the extended ones with the gray curtain ,[names for these])
Years before, NJT ran "squared-off" buses, in that the buses looked very masculine and ran with close to flat edges with a slight slant outward on the sides. It also had a 2 or 3 word white-texted message on the back, which I don't remember now.
Does anyone know what the message was?
The "Green Line" buses are actually LG, not GL - stands for Lafayette & Greenville IBOA, an independent association in Jersey City that receives new buses from NJT.
The "gray curtain" buses are the Volvo articulated units. They will be replaced (eventually) by similar Neoplan artics.
The squared buses you refer to are the Flxible 870/Metro buses. At one point, NJT owned over 1500 of them. Some of the contract operators would put their names in white letters below the rear AC grille to distinguish themselves from NJT owned-&-operated buses.
You can get good information on the NJT fleet from Trevor Logan's TransiTALK site and Dave Mackey's NJT Bus Fan page - links are below
TransiTALK
Dave's NJT Bus Fan page
Broadway bus in Bayonne have some 30'& 40' Novas . Lafayette/Greenville operate 40' novas.
....The Neoplan ARTIC order has been placed on hold due to the Maureen Milan situation.
At one Time Valley Metro's Route #3 Van Buren Street Operated to 9 different destinations (Currently The line has 7)
Then
Phoenix Zoo <-> 43 Av/Buckeye
Phoenix Zoo <-> Metrocenter Via 43rd Avenue
Phoenix Zoo <-> Union Hills Via 43rd Avenue
Camelback Road <-> 43 Ave/Buckeye Via 32nd Street
Camelback Road <-> Union Hills
Camelback Road <-> Metrocenter
Blind Center <-> Central Avenue
48 St <-> 43 Av/Buckeye
48 St <-> Metrocenter Via 43rd Avenue
48 St <-> Union Hills Via 43rd Avenue
Tempe/ASU <-> 43 Ave/Buckeye (Saturday Only)
Now
Phoenix Zoo <-> 51 Avenue
48th St <-> 51 Avenue
Camelback/32 St <-> 51 Avenue
Phoenix Zoo <-> 67 Avenue
48th St <-> 67 Avenue
Camelback/32 St <-> 67 Avenue
Blind Center <-> Central Station
Are there any Local Rotes (Not Including Limted Stop Branches or A/B Lines) In Your local areas?
According to this weeks TV listings in Sunday Newsday, this Fridays episode of Law & Order -Special Victims Unit is about a baby found dead on a bus. Interesting to see if its a transit bus from picturecars.com or an OTR from Academy or Coach USA that the producers have used in the past.
Friday - March 21, 2003 - 10PM EST on NBC
Between 2:00-3:00 in the afternoon spotted a few buses. It nothing special really, but here's what I saw:
JG:
8559
8561(I rode it to Bway)
FLA:
9388(I rode it to Myrtle)
5083
ENY:
5246
FP:
9167
UP:
9338
Also at 11:00 P.M I was at Myrtle/Wyckoff(it's dark and lonely at night), and saw 8539, 4330(first recent UP hand-down I saw), and 8006.
As I was standing there waiting for the Q55 or B13, all that came were crappy 4600's/4700's(I'm not riding one of these on my birthday, I deserve better than this) and I ended up waiting an hour just to get a Nova, I finally get the 9155 on the B13 and went home. What even worse was yesterday at noon, I was waiting for the Q55 and 4390 & 4725 came, I rejected both of them and ended up walking to Myrtle/Wyckoff instead.
As for today, I will be leaving shortly to do some more observations on the (L) Shuttle. I hope today, the Q55 has more Novas on it, because yesterday sucked. Fresh Pond had ruined my birthday. :(
someone asked about this a while back concerning nyct buses. the last shipment of orion 5 buses in 1999 was driven from the orion plant in oriskany new york by transporters who get a fee for this service. new flyer artics were driven to atlantic diesel in lodi from st cloud minnesota and picked up there by nyct drivers. this was in 2000. i dont know the story now. mci buses were driven from pembina n.d. to atlantic diesels piscataway location. in 1996 nova buses were shipped from new mexico on a trasporter carrier. so the ways buses are delivered are quite varied. if anyone knows about the current deliveries please post.
Every time I've driven between NYC and Detroit on I-80, I've seen numerous New Jersey Transit MCIs heading eastbound. I'm not sure if these are en route from North Dakota, because they tend to travel in nonsequential bunches. Then again, a look at the scattered manner in which these buses are numbered might explain that.
You never know, though. A few summers ago, I spotted NJ Transit #7562 in Detroit (driving, not just sitting) about 10 different times over a few weeks. Very strange.
On March 15,2003 I remember spotting an MCI Cruiser ON THE S51 near Bay St and Victory Bl with people on it!!! There is no Express bus that goes near the ferry. The sign said Not In service(probably because it was crowded) but it made a stop at the corner of Bay St and Victory Blvd. I wish I could of took a picture.
First - 2809 is a Yukon bus. No reason in hell that it should be on locals == they could sent out 121-137 Orions instead - also S51 is out of CAS - S61 is out of Yukon.
If what you saw is true, who the hell knows what it was doing. - Maybe training with other drivers aboard??
I think it was probably a training bus but the bus had a lot of people in it ike a normal S51. The only problem was that it said Not In Service but it made stops a stop at Victory and
Bay St. On a second note ther are many MCI's at CAS.
I think it was probably a training bus but the bus had a lot of people in it ike a normal S51. The only problem was that it said Not In Service but it made stops a stop at Victory and Bay St. On a second note ther are many MCI's at CAS.
Fwd: Bus Roadeo Movie in Hong Kong
Found this on a Discussion Board in HK. I guess this would be interesting.....driving a Neoplan Centroliner bus around the cones in a competition....
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/ptbphoto/DSCN0738.MOV
GP
Today was a little better for me. I managed to ride buses from all 5 Brooklyn Depots today. As I got to Myrtle/Wyckoff, I stood among the group of people waiting for the shuttle. I got JG's 8565, and went to Bway Junct.. The next bus was FLA's 9400, and took it back to Myrtle/Wyckoff. After smoking a cig., I rode UP's 9081, and I would have to say that this was probably the best ride on the shuttle today, this bus was zooming through Wyckoff Av.. As I got to Bway Junct., I managed to see the 4394(KB hand-down which was NIS) and the 4872 on the B25 when I was waiting for the next bus. Which of course was an ENY bus, it was 8699. As I got to Myrtle/Wyckoff I decided to ride (L) train. I was on 8285 going to and from Manhattan. I managed to see 2 sets of R42's being used. The amount of R42's being used gets less and less every month. And finally, to make up for that horrible treatment on the Q55 yesterday, I got 9141 "Thank God". If I had missed it, then 3986 would've been the next bus coming *shudders*, followed by 4890. There you have it, I got a bus from every Brooklyn depot today.
Here's the complete list of what I saw today:
JG:
8565
FLA:
9400
UP:
9081
ENY:
8115
8699
FP:
8013
9581
-
(L) Shuttle- 93'RTS #8565(of JG)
(L) Shuttle- 98'RTS #9400(of FLA)
(L) Shuttle- 96'RTS #9081(of UP)
(L) SHuttle- 94'RTS #8699(of ENY)
R143 (L) train #8285
Q55- 96'RTS #9141(of FP)
Good ol' Cummins engine 9141. Why were not more buses equipped with these powerful 6-cylinder, 4-stroke engines (not counting JG Orion buses 581-610, which have Cummins CNG engines) instead of the Detroit Diesel series 50 engine?
I have no problems with the DD series 50 engines. I love their sound on the Novas. However, those engines are horrible on the 1993 OrionV repowers.
Yeah, I like Cummins engine Novas(9140-9149) too. Plus they're exclusive to Fresh Pond.
The details of the accident aren't clear, but here is what David J. Greenberger and I saw when we exited the 36 St subway station at 7:32pm tonight. The bus is #9108.
Take Pride,
Brian
Wow, BusTalk is really slow. I thought you guys would be jumping all over this accident.
not subtalk apparently! That was where I saw the link to your message here on BusTalk (a hybrid of sorts)!
Wow, BusTalk is really slow. I thought you guys would be jumping all over this accident.
Wow, 246 messages in four days?!?! Isn't that a slow DAY at SubTalk? I guess your link to this in SubTalk is bringing some life here, look at all the SubTalkers here in the last few minutes, since you posted the link there!
Let's see, I see a SubTalk-BusTalk Challenge, like MTV's Real World-Road Rules Challenge....just kidding....
Thats real slow for SubTalk, on SubTalk we get about 530+ messages a day, BusTalk stays under 100 a day.
>>> Wow, BusTalk is really slow. I thought you guys would be jumping all over this accident. <<<
Whats there to say? It looks like the car ran into the bus and did little damage to the bus.
Tom
Ok. Maybe you guys get accident photos, taken minutes after the accident, posted here all the time. I just want to be an up to the minute news source for you all. I capture the action and deliver it to your computer, ASAP.
Yeah, like some amblulance chaser who thought he was god's gift to the FRA who posted a picture of a "major collision" with a bumper block instead of calling 911 or the appropriate authority or helping evacuate doomed passengers from the stricken train. At least the photography is visible this time.
No, the photo is still a little fuzzy. I tried resting the camera on a newspaper vending box thing, but people kept walking in front of me so it was hard to get a good shot.
Other than the steering damage, what physical damage did the bus occur, other than the need to replace a bottom panel or two (that could probably be salvaged from the first #9656 (the 1998 one), not the one in service now, from 1999).
NO (I repeat NO) visible physical damage to the bus.
From the position of the bus to the car, the bus had to be turning (since it could not have been going straight, as there are buildings there behind it), so it looks like the bus may be at fault (purely speculation). Although the bus may have been trying to turn on yellow, and the driver may have been trying to "make the light" by going fast through a yellow light, so it's hard to say who's fault it is.
Although the bus may have been trying to turn on yellow, and the driver may have been trying to "make the light" by going fast through a yellow light, so it's hard to say who's fault it is.
When I say "driver", I mean the driver of the car.
Are you sure that the bus was even involved in this accident? Do you see the damage to the front of that car? There isn't even a cracked panel on the bus. I believe the bus is detouring around this accident receiving instruction from the SLD or SPT on the scene. I don't believe it was directly involved (judging from the lack of damage to the bus).
Um, no. The bus definitly had a damaged steering system. And the bus driver wasn't happen. She eas definitly part of this accident.
Should have read: "And the bus driver wasn't happy."
What is a damaged steering system?
The steering wheel was locked in position. It wouldn't turn. The B/O jiggled it in view of the police (and everyone else who happened to be there).
There were also some very minor scratches in the paint.
The impact may have caused a power steering hydraulics line to break or may have in some other way caused the power steering system to become compromised.
Someone made mention earlier about a passenger being in the bus. In accidents scenes, atleast in PA, bus operators are trained to keep passengers on the bus, unless the bus is on fire or in some way creating a hazard for the passengers. This is done for their safety and so they do not hinder rescue efforts.
good call
where is 36th av. certainly not in brooklyn.
That would be 36th Street.
Yeah, sorry. I was thinking about 9th Av when I typed that. 9th Av was the other end of the shuttle bus route.
The steering wheel was apparentlty locked in place. I assume that was becuase the associated undercar mechanisms responsible for turning the bus wheels was damaged on impact. Therefor, the bus steering wheel couldn't turn because whatever it is linked to is broken.
The bus was making a left turn off of 4th Av and onto 36th Street. This was part of the G.O. I stood at the intersection a couple hours earlier and watched 20 buses make this same movement. None of them got into an accident. They all waited for the light to turn red and then just scooted across.
I think the bus was there first.
I think the should ticket the other driver.
Geesh,.... His insurance will go up too, that bus is EXPENSIVE!
The guy i saw with an ice pack on his head was wearing an FDNY t-shirt. So maybe the driver of the car was a firefighter. That would make things interesting.
Did this just happen when you walked out of the 36th Street station, or did it look like it happened some time before that?
It looked to have happened about 3 minutes before, because the ambulance was already there, but the firetruck was not. The firetruck csame a few minutes later.
I think the bus was there first.
I think the should ticket the other driver.
Geesh,.... His insurance will go up too, that bus is EXPENSIVE!
There is no damage to the bus:
Bus would receive some damage based upon impact damage to car.
The operator is still in her seat:
After an accident, the operator would be out of the seat inspecting the area and obtaining necessary information.
There is at least one passenger still on board:
All passengers would be required to exit the bus unless they are remaining as a witness. This passenger seems content to watch the collision damage as the bus passes.
The emergency flashers are not activated:
In any emergency situation, the driver will activate the 4-way flashers which flash alternately. Neither set is lit.
To me, it appears the collision happened at an earlier point with another vehicle. The image above shows where the car came to a stop after impact. I suspect the bus was not involved in this accident at all, but rather attempting to negotiate around it with the help from the on-scene SLD or SUPT.
I could be wrong, but all indications lead me to believe the bus had nothing to do with it and wasn't involved.
Your arguement is convincing. But I was there, and the bus wasn't moving for a while. And when it did move, it was broken in the steering department! I admit some of the facts don't add up. But I was there. And so was David J. Greenberger, Esq. He will vouch for all of this, once he gets his lazy arse over here. (BTW, after I posted the original post about this, Greenberger and I ran back out and rode the (1) G.O. that had the nb (1) going express from 96th to 125th and then it switched on to the sb tracks at 139th. And then it switched back to the nb tracks after that. It was exciting. But we're back now. That's what you call a quick sub hour-and-a-half subway G.O. jaunt. Good thing it was close to home.)
No, the car was touching the bus. According to someone who had apparently witnessed the crash, the car hit the front right wheel of the bus. (I don't know who was at fault -- did the car run the red light as the bus was turning, or did the bus turn into oncoming traffic?) When the bus finally moved (after the police arrived), it couldn't steer -- the steering wheel was locked in position.
This left the bus blocking 36th Street, since the wheels were angled slightly to the left. The impromptu reroute had shuttle buses stay on 4th Avenue to 38th, stopping on the east side of 4th. The gates to the station on the west side of 4th were even locked, to prevent passengers from trying to get on the bus that couldn't steer.
Okay, apparently this car ran into the front right wheel of the bus as it turned from one street onto another.
What are the chances of a car hitting the rear-side (outwardly open) tire and nothing else? Slim- I've never seen it before, nor have heard of anyone involved in a similar accident.
This would also explain why the steering mechanism was damaged to the point of disability (direct tire/wheel impact).
However two points to consider:
1- NYCT policy dictates that when safe, passengers are to be removed from the vehicle and escorted onto a following vehicle. I still suspect this lone passenger (and quite possibly, one other as evident but not apparent) remained as a witness for the driver.
2- NYCT bases accidents on "preventable or non-preventable" and not "fault" hence the factors in determining whether this accident was the fault of one operator or the other is moot. Action, if any and if necessary will be deemed based upon "preventable" or "non-preventable" policy.
Any updates on this accident?
My take on this accident is that the car had to have struck another car and then come to rest on the bus...maybe "tapped" the bus. There is WAY too much damage on the car and no noticable damage on the bus for the car to have impacted this bus directly. It just does not make sense.
There was no other smashed up car in sight. Why couldn't the car have smashed into the bus's spinning steel wheel? All the lug nuts would have tore up the car after the impact caused the initial damage. I'm sure the steel wheel is very strong so that is why there was no visible dmage to the wheel.
That's true, but wouldn't something have happened to the tire of the bus if that were the case?
The bus could not stop moving just because a car hit it on the side. It does look as the wheel was struck by the car. There is lateral damage to the car to its right consistant with damage caused by striking a moving bus. There also apears to be some damage to the front bus door, but I can not tell for sure from the picture. The fact that the bus could not stear is consistant with a strike to the wheel. The axel of a bus is not designed to colapse in impact, the front of a car is.
Elias
I saw 9108 on the B6 a day after this "accident".
B6#9108
According to today's Newsday ridership has increased to record levels. Many reverse commuters (NYC-Nassau) for jobs. Neil Yellin does expect some drop-off due to fare increase.
Article probably can be accessed at Newsday.com
I know that the DOB had plenty of work this weekend with Subway Shuttle buses but why would you send buses from Gleason and Ulmer Park to cover the L Shuttle and buses from East New York and Fresh Pond to cover the W Shuttle.
I know that the DOB likes to spread the overtime among all the depots but to send buses from South Brooklyn to cover a shuttle in north Brooklyn and to send buses from North Brooklyn to cover a shuttle in South Brooklyn is just plain stupid
They must be a better way for the TA to manage this.
Overtime is overtime so why do you have to have buses waste gas in traveling from one part of Brooklyn to another especially when you have overtime in your back yard
Can someonw have a logical explanation
Thank You
Can you please contact me ,,directly
Thank you
Steve
FDNY
Steve,
Will call you tonight
Barry
thanks
914 668 9218
steve
Barry
Hi,,looking forward to talk ing to you ,,re the shuttle routes
thanks
steve
914 329 7489
Good point but when these schedules are made up it is not known at the time which weekend it will be actually needed. Various times of the year buses are needed on a particular subway line so they'll use the same schedule which was made up months before in advance.
Bill,
I was told by someone that these general orders are made up months in advance except if their is an emergency order. The reason i know this is that their was a General order on the L Line that was cancelled after it was started because of the possibility of a transit strike that weekend.
It has not been rescheduled as yet. It was suppose to connect the new track layout on the Manhattan bound tracks between Sutter Ave and Broadway Junction and it still has not been done.
Unless one of these orders was an emergency GO and i do not believe that they were then Operations Planning has plenty of time to coordinate.
Thank You
It's true. It's kind of strange to see an Ulmer Park bus all the way up here around Bushwick where the (L) shuttle is. It's the same seeing a Fresh Pond bus in south Brooklyn, where FP routes go nowhere near there.
I was on the (L) shuttle both times last weekend, and there were only eight buses on the whole thing. I think it would make sense for ENY and FP run it by themselves. It will save the trouble of JG, FLA, and UP buses trying to travel up here.
boston is ordering buses from neoplan usa, and also, neoplan germany built a neoplan an440lf trolleybus for service in boston and the link to see a picture of it is:
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com/ctp/id92.html
just skim through it and you will see it.
Cool pics! They are neat looking trolleybuses.
Chuck Greene
septa should get sumthin like that
Wow! That bus is amazing! That is definitely a SEPTA bus! It has that....wow! I love that bus. I wish that our trackless trolleys were running those.
Yea that is a very nice looking bus
Very nice looking buses septa should go for them.
Apparently, Neoplan USA, NOT Neoplan Germany, built the shell of the bus and sent it to the Czech Republic for the installation of the tracless tolley equipment, and then they will be sent over to the MBTA...
The first bus should be on MBTA property in May sometime.
**P.S., Neoplan Germany is now owned by the MAN Corporation.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
Yeah, I also heard Neoplan is owned by MAN in Europe. If Neoplan USA has financial difficulties, would MAN provide any help or take over the USA factory and start making MAN buses...
Regards,
Stephen
ah i don't like MAN buses to much i hope they help neoplan USA out but don't make there bused i heard that man is doing good in euro,
I would infer that MAN would only take control of Neoplan in Germany...Neoplan in the USA is just Neoplan USA...it's a separate entity here in the USA now...don't quote me on this...
Happy St. Patrick's Day to all at BusTalk. Just as a poll, how many busfans are here of Irish descent? Gotta go catch a bus; top of the Metro to you all!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Irish Busfan
I am of Irish descent. A good day overall!
#8842 4 Lexington Ave Express
Great to hear it. How was your bus riding day? Thanks for the response!
-F.
Anytime. However I rode 2 redbirds on the #7: 9583 and 9725 and 1 GBL RTS bus on the Q60: 634. That bus was so S-L-O-W!!!
#634 Q60
I'll save the subway portion of this trip for Subtalk,and believe me,there is something very interesting I have to tell all of you but again tune into Subtalk for that.As far as the bus portion goes,from Rock Pk. I took the Q35 to Kings Plz RTS #620,saw a couple of Orion V's out in the Rockaways including one on the Q22 that had a sign that said B222St via Rockway Beach Blvd.Now that's weird since the last stop is on B169St not B222St.Anywho,on my way out of Kings Plz,I took the B41 and guess what bus it was.It wasn't a 5000,or an 8400,no no none of those...it was 4215.Yes you heard me folks,4215 and I saw 4214 going back toward where I came from.I got off at Flatbush/Nostrand and took the B11 for the first time ever and it was a NF low floor #892 with Orion CNG #610 trailing behind us the whole trip up to where I got off at 49St and New Utrecht Av.That is where the interesting part in the subway comes which shall be left for subtalk.
One final thing,when I got off the B11,I noticed an Orion 1 bus with a B110 Boro Park dest. sign. I know this bus runs between Williamsburg and Boro Park but a couple of question's about this route:
Where in Williamsburg and Boro Pk does this route end at?
What is it routing,what street's it goes on etc.? and
What is the fare for a 1-way trip plus what is the headway of this route during weekdays? Any info will be greatly apprieciated.
Oh yes and Trevor,remember this past Friday when I rode with you,I told you that the strip maps on the 2 train were up to date but didnt know if they made the correct announcment's at Times Sq and 14St,well today I was on a 2 train that was using a set from the 5 train and at those two stops it said Q&W at Times Sq and it mentioned the V at 14St.I know this should be on Subtalk but since you don't like it there all too much,nowhere else left to mention this but here.
I heard from a driver last night (St Pattys Day) that there was a accident involving a x38 I believe (most liekly the one I take every night). Does anybody have any further information on this? Thanks
This AM in downtown Greenlawn I saw HART Bus #801 and had to do a double-take. It is a new Orion with orange LED signs (front one not working). The new livery is red white and blue....Similar to the livery on the OrionI's that Private Transportation of Brooklyn got from upstate NY....
Predominately white, then under the window is a large blue stripe, small white stripe, large red stripe, small white stripe and another large blue trip. There is a break in the stripes to allow the word HART to appear italicized in thin Red letters.
Sharp looking livery and long overdue change from the gold stripe one thats been used since the system started about 20 years ago.
That's enough of a break, now go inside & back to work :-(
Nice to hear from you !
the bus is not a orion-it is a Gillig. HART has about 8 of them to replace the 300's and some of the 500's. I believe this is either a 2002 or 2003 Gillig 30 foot model.
Are we going to see the Novas again wearing police lights and NYPD logos???
Also, why not use buses that are in storage/ going to be scrapped???
That is not a bad idea at all; I like the idea of police buses. Say, whatever happened to the old NYCTA Flxible New Look in NYPD colors?
-F.
Another application for former transits is fire department use. One of our local fire stations uses a retired transit for training.
Anyone have any photos of the NYCTA buses that got the police light bar on them?
I have 2 photos. 1 in color and 1 in black and white.
Both were taken in the vicinity of Times Square. Email me and place in the subject line NYPD Buses and I'll be happy to send them to you.
#9598 NYPD
Saw this AP photo in today's newspaper in an article about war protest. In it, demonstrators are lying in the middle of 15th Street blocking traffic around Philadelphia City Hall during rush hour yesterday. Among the blocked vehicles is a SEPTA Neoplan artic on what appears to be route "C".
What does a TA usually do during such demonstrations, and does anyone plan for what to do in such events when route buses cannot get through their scheduled streets?
-F.
Damn the protest goting tat bad here in philly. I have great deal to say to little time!
Huh? I didn't quite catch that. Come again?
-F.
Meaning that i never saw protests that bad in philly in a long time. And since Bush is going to war i may never go to center city for a while.
i missed my bus messing with one of those protesters. the funny thing is... im in the military.
No doubt those protesters will be shipped to Texas for immediate execution.
lol i like that one. i agree...
All that SEPTA and NJ Transit can really do is operate on a diversion route. Usually, if the area around City Hall is blocked off, NJT buses heading to South Jersey can divert via 12 St and Arch Sts to Broad St and resume their normal route. That's also what SEPTA does on it's Market St routes. AFA Broad St goes, SEPTA usually diverts those buses to 17 St via Arch (I think) rather than 15 St then returns to Broad usually via Chestnut.
The TA fits their buses with cow catchers and mows 'em down! Short and sweet! :)
Saw this at natransit.com, courtesy of Chaffee; it is a SEPTA New Flyer LF with a very weird rear destination sign that look like something straight out of "The Jetsons". The link is as follows:
http://www.chaffeeyiu.com/usbus/septa-5436-1.jpg
What's ths story behind this sign, and who makes them? Was it special-ordered due to the fact the bus has a wrap ad on the back? Or is it just a uniform visibility feature on all of them?
What gives?
-F.
Yea those are top rear designation signs they are install by new flyer it is part of the bus chais . Anyway i think that septa wants a space for the ads to.
Was it special-ordered due to the fact the bus has a wrap ad on the back?
Hmm that special wrap is for Spree service which was the one time Rt. 76
The rear sign on SEPTA's New Flyers was ordered as such because SEPTA uses the upper portion of the rear for ad space, not just for full wraps.
Just saw some photos of WMATA's New Flyer LFs. Never seen them in action, but I LOVE the blue paint treatment at the headlight areas. This adds a very sharp look to the whole bus. Good going, WMATA!
-F.
Just curious..are these the coaches that are replacing Flxible Metros in the near future? And what did the ones they have now replace?
hmm do you have a link to those photos :-)
Yeah...go to natransit.com and click on the WMATA section. There is also a gallery of your SEPTA buses there as well. Great stuff, especially the photos by Chaffee...one of his may be seen from the link I provided under the "Weird Sign" post. Enjoy!
-F.
-F.
Todays RECORD shows that the old Red & Tan garage in Bergenfield will be finally be torn down within the next weeks to make room for a new bank. Them garage was the original HILL BUS COMPANY, which was later purchased by Rockland Coaches. The building dates back to probably the 1930's and is very solid. The garage is located on Washington Ave.
(Teaneck Road) a few miles north of Rt. 4.
http://bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1NSZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NjM1NTUzMCZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTM=
im offering it here. One road champs flixible metro 40 foot from road champs. this model is all in white during a attempt to design it differently. sadly, the front lights are broken, but the rest of the bus is in good condition. best offer gets it. email me at vautrin179@aol.com with price. best price seals the deal.
My wife finds' em in that sort of condition all the time at thrift stores. She brings 'em home for me....she's never paid over fifty cents for one yet!!!
Passengers in Queens and travelers to heading to LaGuardia Airport, should know that there is no direct service from Midtown to LaGaurdia Airport. You need to go through a subway trains ride and then finally a bus ride, just to get the airport. The bus route should start at 32nd Street and 7th Avenue (Penn Station), run up through 5th Avenue, make it through the Queensboro Bridge, and express all the way to the Central Terminal Building at LaGuardia Airport. This service would only run 20-30 minutes on weekdays and 35-40 minutes weekends. What do you guys think?
Y'know, it's funny that u say that, because New York Airport Service provides this direct Manhattan-to-Airport service already, though at a price somewhere in the range of $9...
This can be done with the Current TCC QM22 Line with some adjustments to the routeing
[Y'know, it's funny that u say that, because New York Airport Service provides this direct Manhattan-to-Airport service already, though at a price somewhere in the range of $9...]
Given that, why should a public agency (Transit or NYCDOT) spend huge amounts of non-existent money to subsidize a service which would only compete (poorly, too) with what a private carrier is already doing?
Only a code orange terror alert and a guy sitting on a tractor near the reflecting pool to screw things up.
Observations from today:
Soutbound 355 was backed up at least to Tuckerman Lane, most likely from NIH
I took the B11 this evening and it was aronud 10 minutes late due to NIH traffic
My B11 driver said this morning to deadhead to Rosslyn to make his AM trip, it took him 90 minutes to get to the Key Bridge and then another 90 minutes to make it over the bridge. He got to Rosslyn in the 10 AM hour.
My B11 (Flxible 9375) was signed B11 SPECIAL. Paper signs had correct destination.
B11 drivers do split shifts with one "round trip" AMs and one PMs
9701-9704 were transfered to Landover some time ago
I saw 9720 on the B11 this morning with a bike on the rack
I think that is all from today. Let's see what goes on tomorrow.
Nice to see something other than Orions on the B11. I've only seen older Orion V's on them and the occasional ex-Smartmover bus on there.
Last night in Georgetown, we were on Orion VI 2008 on the 38B going there, but when we came home after our movie at the Loews there, we head back up to M St. and enter a seen from the "Twilight Zone". I forgot that there is ongoing construction there at night to take care of the decaying infrastructure under the streets. This was around midnight, we get up to M and all you see are orange cones and bright lights and police cars and yellow arrows blinking. At first I thought the whole road was closed, but then realized there was one lane in each direction, so we headed to 30th St. to catch the 38B home. It was supposed to arrive there at 11:58PM, but did not show up until 12:20AM and there was nobody on it. Probably between the moron in the pond and the construction, it screwed up everything. We had Orion V 4233 on the Ballston bound bus. I've been seeing more and more non NextBus Orions being used lately.
We flew through the Rosslyn Station as nobody was getting on or off there, hit Wilson Blvid. and make good time there. Once we turned onto Washington Blvd, it was like a Disney Ride. First it was very foggy out, then the bus driver just floored it all the way down Washington. To his dismay, we got stuck at a light, but once we turned onto Glebe, the fun began as he ran a red light big time to make the left onto Wilson Blvd. I think he single handidly ended up back on time as the trip from Georgetown was about 10 minutes instead of 20-25.
Going to G'Town, 2008 almost had a Mercedes as an ornament as some older man pulls out from a parking space the moment we were passing them. Our driver leaned on the horn and we swerved around it and some lady in the back let out an unsettling scream, but other than that, nothing happened.
I've been seeing alot more Flxibles on the route as of late. I did get 4401 on there last week and saw another suburban Orion there this week.
How many systems did Road Champs make buses for? I got buses representing the following systems: SEPTA, NJT, DART [Dallas], METRO [Houston], MTA NYC Bus, AC TRANSIT, MARTA, METRO TRANSIT [Minneapolis], CTA, METRO-DADE [Miami], and that ugly GREYHOUND Eagle.
If there are other systems, is there a way I can get my hands on them, either by directly buying them, or via Ebay? Let me know.
Thanks
Mark DeLoatch
Mdlbigcat@comcast.net
P.S. I bought at least 2 or three of each. One to display, the others to play with. So if there are other systems, I will need to acquire at least two of them.
I've seen some from Las Vegas on Ebay as well.
Mark, I have one of the rare SEPTA Flxible Metros that were done by Road Champs; you may e-mail me at flxible169@yahoo.com. Also, I do custom schemes for Baltimore, WMATA, Pittsburgh, and many more should you be interested. Hope to hear from you soon!
-Fred
You have all the ones that Road Champs made....plus the custom run for SEPTA.
There are also some available from Las Vegas' Citizens Area Transit in their old teal and magenta livery. These were NOT done by Road Champs, however. CAT bought a few thousand blanks (white with the black window trim) and had them decorated locally in Las Vegas. You'll notice a big difference in the texture of the markings if you get your hands on one. Sorry I don't have any extras even though I go to Vegas all the time. It's just a pain in the arse to drive all the way downtown to get them.
As for the Eagles...they made them in Greyhound, also "Sun Tours" and "Gadabout Tours". I have never seen buses with these markings or liveries in real life....so I don't know if they are real or not. I did correct all the paint problems on my Greyhound, and it doesn't look half bad once the Road Champs factory mistakes are corrected (such as painting the window area black, blue around the windshield, etc.)
The Greyhound Eagles had black trim around the windows?
Around the passenger windows, yes. They had black sashes, and the panel between each window pane was black too. I upgraded the paint job on my Road Champs model from a photo I took in Salt Lake City back in 1988.....only thing I did NOT do was put numbers on the bus.
its kinda of sad that Road Champs didnt do a rts model. Does anyone know why they chose the flexible models?
I think a better question is why they didn't; I was just thinking about it the other day, and this is an outstanding model and one of the best I have ever seen or worked with. My absolute favorite bus model to customize is the Flxible Metro by Road Champs; it is a very straightforward and familiar design and VERY easy to work with.
I can't help but thank my lucky stars that they chose the Flx over the RTS as a medium; besides, there's PLENTY of RTS stuff out there already, including:
-Hot Wheels Slopeback
-1:64 (?) scale diecast friction Squareback (Made in China)
-"O" scale Jimson banks
-Micro Machines Slopeback (even made a fully lighted version!)
-Pirate Models HO scale model (Slope OR straight...but you better cash in your 401K to find one, which is very hard to do!)
-1:25 scale resin promo model Slopeback (circa 1977)
And what have we seen of Flxible Metro models?
-Road Champs HO scale diecast
-1:43 scale resin kit (Super-rare and over $125.00 at last count)
-Pirate Models N and HO kits (see note about their RTS model above)
I think a main reason Road Champs chose the Flx is because at that time they were HQed in West Caldwell, New Jersey; as we all know, the Flxible Metro was (and still is) the flagship of the NJT fleet, and that is one of the first schemes they made them in. Makes perfect sense to me, but I could be wrong.
Hope all this helps. Road Champs, THANK YOU for one of the best bus models ever made.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
-
By the time they made the Flxible Metro, Flxible was out of business, so they didn't have to go through all the trouble of licensing, etc. I think NJ Transit did more to help them along than anything else....as the buses DO follow NJ Transit detailing.
There are some crappy looking diecast metal RTS's with the pull-back motors in them, made in pseudo NYMTA and LACMTA colors. They have a rear window where the a/c grilles should be, poor window spacing, a huge roof hatch in the rear only and rear door windows that look like they belong on an elevator..
This is true; NJT may very well have had a lot to do with the design of the model. As for the RTS model, I know they aren't perfect, but as bus enthusiasts, we should be happy for what we've got. Most toy and model companies prefer not to do buses at all.
-F.
they made one for CAT(Citizens Area Transit). at present, i have about 19 of these models(including a 30-foot model that Flixible did for me)-they are still avaible in Las Vegas. though not sure if they are still running in Las Vegas, though. There is a NYC Road Champs Flixible currently avaible on ebay now.
Well, the New Flyers are at frontier and in service. Contrary to popular beliefs, they are used on the 98 (I saw 5661 yesterday and another bus at the mall this morning) and also on the 95 for the early morning run (5660), which replaced a NABI! I hope to finally ride one of these buses very soon. I just hope they aren't that hard to get.
Considering there are only 10 of them assigned to Frontier, that might be a tricky task. I can't understand why they're using 40-ft buses on the 95/97, since ridership isn't that high to begin with. My impression was that they were going to be used mainly on the 124/125 expressway runs, but I guess those drivers haven't been qualified on the low floors yet.
Well, about the 95 and the 97, they actually do require 40ft buses at times. The 97, which runs hourly, starts to require bigger buses than El Dorados around peak service hours. Those buses then go on the 95, which doesn't really need the 40ft buses as much, but i know the 4:35 bus to Gulph Mills from Penn Square was converted to a 40ft bus run recently (this is/was one of the NABI runs) and the time I had to take it, I saw a lot of people getting off of it at the station. The most ridership on the 95 occurs between Gulph Mills station and the Renessaince Center and Swedeland, which is why between Conshohocken Rail Station and Gulph Mills there are 10 to 15 minute headways, and I've seen some of those runs operated with El Dorados as well as the Cutaways. In addition to peak service hours, there is also two runs that generally uses Neoplans at night. These runs are part of the newer "late night" runs on the 95. Those runs don't necessarily require 40ft buses (often times I'm the only rider for most of the route) but I think the bus is actually coming from the 96. Also, the run that I mentioned before (I don't know the block number) actually used to use cutaways, and was recently converted to a NABI/Neoplan run.
Anyway, about the 124/125, do you know when they use Frontier buses? I remember when I rode the 125, it was a Frontier bus, and it was around 4:30. Maybe most of the Frontier runs on those routes are during peak service hours, and that's when those buses are full, too full for a New Flyer?
While when i was downtown i saw 5667 on the 125. So yes they do used frontiar NFLs .
Also, about the 97, I wouldn't be too hasty to say that it doesn't get much ridership. Yes, it basically is a Dorado route, but I think it generally has a balanced ridership. It runs later than all the buses that operate from Norristown, especially on Sundays. It still may not have as much, but it seems to have a decent ridership.
Here is a link that I found on another board for some high quality pictures online. They were posted by the fire department that extinguished the fire of PAT Neoplan Low Floor 5019 last summer. There are no plans that I know of to repair this bus which would make it the "first officially dead Neo LF." At the time of the fire, this bus was barely 3 years old. As of last month, it still sat on the dead row up at Ross Division.
Sources say that a cable running from the battery to the generator snapped and punctured the generator. The live charge from the cable iginted the generator oil and started the fire. After this incident, the other 159 low-floors all recieved some sort of retrofit to ensure this would not happen again.
Thankfully, the bus only had a 3 or 4 people on board. It was an outbound 13A N Hills Express, however, due to a coach shortage that afternoon, the trip was almost 20 minutes late out of Ross Division and the bus that was supposed to be behind this one actually left 5 minutes before it, along with the heavy passenger load this trip normally recieved. No one was injured.
The operator who was supposed to be running this trip, had a friend of hers to run it because she had an appointment that afternoon. When he called her up on the phone and told her the bus caught fire, she thought he was pulling a prank on her, until she saw the bus the next morning. Then she realized she dodged a major bullet!
http://galletta.business.pitt.edu/busfire/busfire.html
Cool... :)
Even though this seems to be a different problem, I seem to recall that back in the 80s, some Neoplans had a tendency to burn, I think it was a problem with the defrosting system. SCRTD 3440 was an early casualty, also I think a Neoplan in either Philadelphia or Washington DC met a similar fate.
I don't know if it was because of what you just stated, but I remember when I was little I saw a SEPTA Neoplan parked in the victory lot that seemed to have suffered from a fire. That may be the Neoplan that you are talking about.
I remember years ago, an EMTA 83XX series Neoplan burned up. I believe it was a school tripper bus deadheading back to the garage. I don't remember what # it was or what caused the fire, but, it was toasted.
Hello there fellow BusTalkers,
I notice you post observations on here. So, here is what I saw this morning in Manhattan and near the Gowanus Expwy in Brooklyn:
Brooklyn:
MCI D4500 #2173 on the Gownaus Expwy near 63rd St.
Manhattan:
MCI D4500 #1870 on 42nd St going west
MCI D4500 #2773 on 5th Av
MCI D4500 #2785 on 42nd St going west
MCI D4501 #2902 on 2nd Av on the X25
Orion 05.501 buses #6066 and #6094 on the M104 going to the U.N.
I was on 5th Av and E 42nd St today after spending time in Brooklyn.
one thing:
#2902 is a Stengel bus, not an Ulmer Park bus, the x25 is an Ulmer Park line.
The bus you might have seen on the x25 is #2912.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Hello "Transit is my Drug",
Actually, I saw #2902 BUT I think the bus was Not In Service.
Hello fellow BusTalkers,
Back in 1997-1998, I was taking down bus numbers like what a line dispatcher would do. You know, stand at a corner for a certain amount of hours writing down bus numbers. Well, I was doing that too BUT I kept myself invisible to the bus drivers because I did not want to "Impersonate" a bus dispatcher. Hey, I was in Baruch College and I was bored during my three hour breaks so I had to find something to do (BTW, this did not affect my schoolwork).
The point is, I have a year of bus observations and I'll be happy to post them if you guys would like...these will bring back some memories to all of you like the 100th St, Walnut, etc. Let me know.
Yes, take us back to the "Old School!"
So do I so please post those old school numbers here!!!
#2663 Q46
I find it funny how the other people who replied said this would be 'old school.'
I'm pretty sure many of these buses are still in use today. Please share with use your bus numbers so we can peruse their contents.
Um, not really there dude.
Let'see off the top of my head, what buses you would NOT find in service today....
-12, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23xx 1981 RTS Buses
-16, 17, 18, 24, 25, 26, 27xx 1982 RTS buses
-30, 31, 32, 33xx 1983 RTS Buses
-99% of 34, 35, 36, 37xx 1984 RTS Buses
-All of the 38xx series, most of the 39, 40, 41, and 42xx 1985 RTS Buses
-Alot of the 43, 44, and 45 1986 RTS buses
I'd say a good 2,000 buses have been scrapped in that time.
The 24XX series through PA2579 were part of 1981 buses listed below.
TA 1201-1317
TA PA1318-PA1659
OA 2201-2300
OA PA2301-2579
Wayne
I think 3809 and 3893 are still operating out of Hudson Pier.
3469 and 3474 to my knowledge are still going strong.
Other than that you are basically correct.
#3809 M6
#3469 Q32
#3474 M2
Sorry dude. I didn't get my Dell, today.
Dear Fellow Bus Talkers
It appeards that very shortly the United States will be going to war.
I do not know what your opinion is because it's your own personal believe.
But regardless if you support or oppose this action we should all pray that our troops came home safe and sound as soon as possible.
May God Bless the United States of America and its allies and may God watch over all of us.
pray for the ones in the armed forces. me being one of them in the 82d airborne division in ft bragg, north carolina. it is very possible that the whole division may get deployed.
We have a driver at our local TA who is a Staff Sergeant in the local Army Reserves; today he was not driving. I have been praying for him all day, and that he does not have to go over there, but he is willing to jump up and do it if necessary. Let's pray for them all.
-F.
Amen.
Queens Village Depot has two active military personnel overseas- Peter Brasile and Philip Adam. Our prayers are with them both, and all our American soldiers in the Mid-East.
Amen-
Amen :)
Amen. I will be praying for both our troops and everyone of us here at home. Let's hope we come out of this in the best way.
-F.
When were the last GMC "Old Looks" retired? I think the "New Looks" were retired by around 1995/96.....Also, when were the last 1940s "square window" Old Looks retired? I think I last remember them around 1965 or so.
NYCTA GMC Old Looks TDH 5106's were retired in 1973 (7000 & 9000 series) with the arrival of GMC New Looks T6H 5309A's (6200-6349).
Another thing, back around 1980 when Green Bus Lines already received their first RTS's (1000 series), they also received some hand-me-down Old Looks. Crazy to to see Old Looks and RTS's running together.
Thanks for the info! Yes, it must have been wierd seeing old-looks and RTSs running together! I used to love the old Macks........I last recall them on Staten Island in the late 60s..they were the Rocky Grazianos of the bus world!
Where did the hand-me down old-looks come from ?
Don't really know for sure where they came from. One possibility may be former Jamaica Buses since a number of their older buses have been sent over to GL.
You might be right about the GMC old looks coming from Jamacia.....I am sure I had heard that years ago myself now that I think about it
Yeah I bet that was a sight. In L. A., RTS and Old Looks ran together for several months (the last Old Look was not retired until most of the 940 RTS had been delivered) One reason some of the Old Looks hung around that long was because the 230 Grummans that RTD had purchased had been pulled from service due to the A-frame problems.
One Old Look in particular (#6500) had been in service for 32 years (!) for RTD and various predecessor agencies, its retirement was featured in the L. A. Times, with a picture of it parked next to the newest RTS (9139), ironically, 9139 was an early retirement, it lasted barely 1/3 of the time that 6500 was in service.
Re:SCRTD old-look TDH-4507
I remember reading a nice article about this bus in Bus World. There's a photo of it on it's last day of service with RTD's senior B/O between a Grumman 870 and GM RTS-04 and their B/O's.
Wayne
The article in the L. A. Times back in 1981 said that 6500 was
going to be preserved in a museum, but I haven't come across it
as of yet. I don't think the Pacific Bus Museum in northern California has it.
Oh OK - The Bus World article was pretty good. I don't remember the exact issue, but I can dig it up. It had a few photos - one as it was delivered, on in all-white and some in the late 70's/early 80's RTD colors. I think it was originally 2700 and became 6500 when it went to RTD. IIRC 6500 actually was aqcuired by RTD, sold off and reaqcuired by RTD.
Wayne
That is correct about the number--it was purchased as a demo in 1949 by Pacific Electric and numbered 2700. It probably operated for PE sucessor Metropolitian Coach Lines, not sure it ran for MCL sucessor (and RTD predecessor LAMTA). I think by the late 60s/early 70s, it had moved to one of the last remaining small private companies in the L. A. area, SCRTD subsequenly acquired this company and 2700 in the process, I think it was at that time it was renumbered 6500.
My memories are vague but on the NYCTA, the square-windowed GMs (4506s or 4507s) were mostly retired in 1957 when the 7000 series 5106s arrived. A few 4507s lasted until around 1961 or 1962 for rush hour trippers.
Fifth Ave. Coach and Surface Transit still had many square windowed GMs when MABSTOA took over in 1962. All were replaced bu 1965 when two large orders of 5303s arrived in 1963 and 1965 (the 3300-3555 series and the 5200-5525 series). Don't know the exact dates.
Some old Fifth Ave. Coach 4506s and 4507s ended up running for Westchester Street Tranportation, a pre-Bee Line company that was part of Fifth Ave. Coach and stayed in business past 1962. I remember seeing some of these buses running in Mount Vernon, NY as late as 1969.
I remember GMC "Old Look" buses in Westchester County in use until 1978 or even into early 1979 until the RTS-IIs replaced them. GMC "Old Look" buses were in use by the T/A until at least the early 1970s in all likelihood.
#3 West End Jeff
.......what ever happened to the old EB&AB Bus Co? Did the MTA take over the routes? I recall they were still using ancient "shorty" Macks until the mid-70s....
yes the ta did. they took over the M9 route(orignally it ran from 15th Street-4th Av to either Chatam Square or City Hall)-now it operates from 14th Street-4th Av to Battery Park City.
The other line that they operated was the M8. It ran from Grand Street-Varick Street to Grand Street-FDR Drive. The TA took over the line as well, but found it not making not enough revenue to continue operating it well.
In addition Avenue B and East Broadway Transit also operated an express bus route which was called the M-7X which operated from 5th Ave/110th Street to the World Trade Center. At the time of the takeover in March of 1980 it was taken over by the TA and merged into the M-23X later called the x-23 as a seperate branch. In the late 1980's the routes were redesignated the x-90 and x-92. The x-90 operated from 5th Ave/110th Street to the World Trade Center and the x-92 operated from York Ave/92nd Street to Water/Broad Street. Sometime in the early 1990's the x-90 terminal was changed to York Ave/92nd Street
The M-8 Grand Street Crosstown was discontinued in June of 1987.
Avenue B and East Broadway also operated race track service from Chantam Square to the race tracks. At the time that Ave B ceased operations Walters Transit Corporation took over the lines and after Walters Transit ceased operations Metro Apple Express took over the routes. They were discontinued in the mid 1990's
Hope this helps
Thank You
Thanks much for the info!I recall coming into the city in the early 70s when I was in high school to ride the vintage shorty Macks....shame I never took pics! Your info was really interesting...thanks again
The M14 was extended along Grand Street from Essex to the East River to replace the M8 route, so that the residents along Grand Street would still have bus service - and in this case one that provided connections to many additional bus and subway routes, instead of the old M8 which really didn't do much or provide good connections to other services.
And to the original poster who referred to Ave. B's old Mack buses as "shorty Macks" - these were indeed 35' buses (as opposed to the 40' length of most standard transit coaches), once very common in New York. And these were definitely the last Macks that ran on local transit routes in New York City. Surface Transit had large numbers of 35' Mack buses in its fleet and some lasted into the early MABSTOA era - remember them well on the M104 Broadway and M106 (now M42) 42d St Xtown.
Andy,
The M-14 was extended prior to the M-8 being discontinued. It was one of the major reasons that the TA discontinued the M-8 because it lost most of its ridership to the M-14 which had better connections which you pointed out
Thank You
Barry, good point. You're correct.
[The other line that they operated was the M8. It ran from Grand Street-Varick Street to Grand Street-FDR Drive. The TA took over the line as well, but found it not making not enough revenue to continue operating it well.]
It wasn't a matter of revenue, since all public transit agencies lose money on every passenger. The M8's ridership was overwhelmingly concentrated east of Essex Street, and consisted primarily of transfers to/from the M14 (Avenue A branch). As a result, the M14A was extended along Grand Street as a prelude to killing the M8.
I think it's safe to assume it was absorbed by MaBSTOA. I forget what routes it had. But one of them was the M9 in lower Manhattan. I remember seeing their buses on Park Row along side City Hall. I think it was the last of the private bus companied in Manhattan.
If I recall properly, Ave B went under largely as a result of the 1980 strike.
BTW, where was their garage (depot), and does the structure still stand?
I think someone (Forgotten NY?) did a piece on it. All I remember was the pictures of the red buses.
First if you search this site you will find a history of bus companies of Manhattan. Near the end is a paragraph about the demise of the Ave B & EB.
Also IIRC there is a section of pictures somewhere on this site of the Ave B & EB equipment.
I believe that their yard was under the FDR on the lower East Side.
No the Avenue B and East Broadway Transit ceased operations 2 or 3 days prior to the strike in 1980.
Their depot was located on Cherry Street near the Manhattan Bridge where Pathmark is located. The garage itself was torn down
Thank You
Thanks Barry. I infer that the Ave B garage was on the same site as the Pathmark. My memory is rusty, but I recall somewhere reading (maybe in an old Motor Coach Age) that some bus company had a small garage about 8th street or so, near Aves B-C. Do you have any further details (like precise location and whether the structure still stands)? Or am I totally mistaken? THANKS!
I believe that the old Fifth Ave Coach Company had a depot on 12th Street in that area but where i do not know.
When Fifth Avenue was taken over by the TA and MABSTOA was formed it became a TA property.
12th Street Depot was closed in 1972 and was replaced by Hudson Pier.
I believe that the depot was very small and could hold only 80 buses if that many. I believe that only the M12 Spring/Delancey Street and the M14A 14th Street/Avenue A and the M14D 14th Street/Avenue D were the only routes that operated from it.
The M 12 was discontinued in the lqte 1970's and the M14A and M14D were merged into the current M14.
I do not know if the building is still standing
Thank You
Hi Everybody,
The only thing I know is the routes were the M7x,M8,M9, and the Racetrack special but I do not know the timetables to any of theses routes does anybody know. CDTA
CC LOCAL yeas the routes were taking over by the mta . CDTA
The SEPTA RTS buses first appeared in the spring and summer of 1980-totalling at the time 298 buses recieved. Below is the number of the buses and the garage they were assigned to:
8000-8106. Callowhill.
8107-8116,8205-8274. Germantown.
8117-8204. Alleghany.
8265-8284. Victory Avenue.
4458-4470. Frontier.
hope this lists helps.
B1-#9316-NOVABUS
B64-#3970-RTS(had Staten Island Bus map on inside).
RTS II Specs before retired 96
Type: 1980 RTS II
Engine: Detroit Diesel Series 92 DDEC (6v92ta) 275hp @ 2600rpm
Transmission: Allision HTB-744 (4-speed)
Lenth: 40 feet 6 inchs for the 8000-8274 (35 feet 3inchs for the 4458-4470
width: 96
Top speed: 55mph
Designation sign: lumanator
Seats: 44
Retired: 1996-97
-8265-8284 subarban-city-came with a 6v-71 engines 253hp and was retrofit with 6v92ta DDEC Engines
-4458-4470.All Subarban Came with 6x92ta engines .
-8000-8264 City style came will 6v71 253hp engines.
**All have been overhaul between 86-88 with a Sutrak AC on top to repleace the rear AC do to overheating problems.
Also see my septa spec site it needs some improvement and i will add this info to it tonight and more
As far as the destination signs go, when originally delivered in 1980, the RTS fleet (both the 8000s and the 4400s) were delivered with roll signs. The Luminator signs were retrofit sometime in the mid-1980s during their mid-life overhaul. As I recall, this was around the time when several city routes were renumbered from letters to numbers (ie. the E bus became the 65).
...is now a hard-seater. I spotted it myself on Hillside Avenue. Apparently, they didn't get rid of the raised platform as the tops of the seats were clearly visible above the window line. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first RTS to be re-seated. Queens leads the way once again.
Mark
I like the idea of haveing seats on the raised platform. It makes it better to see out of the window I hope the MTA don't remove them just as long at they 2X1 it's Ok
[I like the idea of haveing seats on the raised platform. It makes it better to see out of the window I hope the MTA don't remove them just as long at they 2X1 it's Ok]
BTW, Orion #146 has 2x2 hard seats with the raised platform.
i hope this is a sign of things to come. this needs to be done at Ulmer Park.
B1-#7531-REMAN
I can confirm that the platform remains, similar to what was done to Orion #146.
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=67825
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
I made a statement in a prior post that 9257 is the first RTS that was converted from an express coach to a local bus. While QV's 9257 is the first of the 100 1996/97 express Novas to be reseated, it is the third RTS overall to go from soft to hard seats. The other two are JG's PA1808, which was converted near the end of its life, and bus 4878 which went from hard to soft and now back to hard seats. It is currently assigned to Manhattanville Depot.
Mark
You can also add 3895 before she was taken oos,she was also converted to hard seats as well.
And 3828.
#3828 M6
If this is a trend, then it looks like some relief is in sight similar to what was done to Orion #146.
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=67825
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Anyone know when the old "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" Macks were retired? I remember riding them when I was kid sometime around 1960 or 61....I can remember them running on 42nd St on the crosstown run also.
Most were retired when MABSTOA received its first GMC 5303s (3300-3555) in 1963. A few of the newer 40' Macks lasted till 1966, retired after MABSTOA received two more large orders of 5303s. These buses were mainstays on 42nd Street on the M106 (42d Xtown) and the M104 (Broadway).
I often wondered if any of the Surface C-49s, finally numbered 49xx ended up combined with the 6000s on Statan Island where Macks ran into the early 1970s. 4900-4909 were especially handsome buses with flourescent interior lighting and passenger push-out exit doors, a feature introduced on the TAs 7000 GMCs and on Fifth Avenue's 2600s. It's really too bad that one of these very late C-49 beauties was not preserved for the Museum!
Don't believe that these buses ever ran outside of the Bronx and Manhattan. When the huge orders of 5303s arrived in 1963-66, these buses disappeared as they were a non-standard item.
You are right that the "Ride The Surface Way" Macks were not seen outside of the Bronx and Manhattan...they were the only places I recall seeing them.
That's because prior to March 1962 Surface Transit operated all Bronx bus routes (except Q44), five Manhattan routes*, and a large number of southern Westchester routes (in Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, and White Plains). None of its routes ever entered Queens, Brooklyn, or Staten Island. And when MABSTOA took over in March 1962, the Macks stayed on Manhattan and Bronx routes till retirement.
*M100, M101, M103 (59th Xtown, since eliminated), M104, and M106 (now M42).
Andy,
Didn't they operate a route on West End Ave which was the M-105
Thank You
Barry - here's the answer, a "YES" but....
The M-105 10th Ave. route was the successor to the TARS T-10th Ave. car line, which ran from W 125th St. Pier to W 42nd St. Pier via 125th, Broadway (sharing tracks with the B-Broadway car) to 72d St., Amsterdam Ave., 10th Ave., and 42nd St. In Dec. 1946 the T-10th Ave and the B-Broadway (the M104 today) were "bussed."
In 1948 9th/Columbus and 10th/Amsterdam Aves. were convered to one way traffic below 65th/72d Sts respectively. The NYC Omnibus #11 began using 10th Ave. NB, and the M105 was shifted to West End and 11th Aves. below 72d St., and was cut back to 72d and Broadway as its north terminal. It soon became a little used line and was abandoned officially in 1962.
Andy,
Was the M-105 abandoned before the takeover of Surfice Transit?
Thanks
They also ran in Westchester -- actually, that was a separate division of Surface Transportation System -- had their own separate fleet, but they had a lot of Macks up there.
Hello there fellow BusTalkers,
This is from September 2, 1997! Let me explain my symbols:
' - this bus has the "MTA New York City Bus" logo.
* - this bus is either brand new OR new to the depot (moved from one depot to another)
I did not work for the MTA-NYCT but I took the numbers down anyways so here they are:
Castleton:
1993 Orion 05.501 #162'
Fresh Pond:
1985 GMC RTS-04 #4105'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9144' (Love that Cummins Engine)
Hudson:
1982 GMC RTS-04 #2609*
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3576, #3580', #3582, #3650'
1985 GMC RTS-04 #4165'
1987 TMC RTS-06 #4811*
1990 TNC RTS-06 #8231', #8259
1993 TMC RTS-06 #8464', #8481, #8475', #8516
Manhattanville:
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #8776' ("'" - already came with the MTA logo)
Mother Clara Hale:
1986 GMC RTS-06 #4425', #4431'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8006, #8032', #8341*, #8028 (I remember this one, the engine was re-done so it sounded like the 7000s and 7500s.)
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9113'
Queens Village:
1981 GMC RTS-04 #1402'? (I think it might have been #1462')
Ulmer Park:
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9288', #9292'
Yukon:
1993 Orion 05.501 #150'* (I thought this bus at the time was with Castleton.)
100th St:
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3617, #3622, #3642'
1986 GMC RTS-04 #4535'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8208*
1994 TMC RTS-06 #8613, 8619 (Remember, when these buses first came out, they had no "MTA New York City Bus" logo)
1997-1998 GMC RTS-04 Remanufactured #7540*' (First time I saw this bus)
126th St:
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8204
Well, that was my observation back on that day. I'll look for another one and post it tomorrow.
Enjoy the memories!
*Sigh* The good old days.
Earlier this week I got a letter from the MTA which mentioned that I'm considered for the Traffic Checker job.Finally after taking the test back in October 2001 and waiting and waiting,my chance is finally here!Tommorow I'm going downtown to 1250 Broadway to fill out a whole bunch of paper's and who know's what else.To me tommorow is a big day and I feel nervous.Wish me luck everyone and hopefully by the end of the year,you'll see me around in the subway station,on a train or standing near a bus stop taking down statistical info.
Hey congrat man! I was called down on Febuary 28 for MaBSTOA Bus Operator Pre-employment. I have to go back in August to continue because of something that happened in the distant past. It came back to bite my you know where. Nothing major but I have to wait until then. In addition to that I'm on the TA B/O list from the exam that took place in 1999. Last time I called they were up to 5946! My number is 6514. I took a survey before the exam and one of the questions on it that gives hope for me is:
If there aren't any B/O positons or your not qualified for B/O would you be interested in the positon of Conductor?
I'm quite sure you and everyone eles knows the answer to that one! I wonder if TA still does that? Any employees here think or might have some clue as if the TA still does this practice for future B/O's and C/R's? V Train B47 Bus I don't know you but I congratulate anybody who makes it in there! Tip when you go there make sure all your doucuments that you bring match! TA is funny about that. And they will turn you away until they are. I would've gotten stopped anyway because I didn't have my middle intial on my license. So I have to correct my name info also. Good luck see ya on the corner or in that subway station!
D
6A Ronkomkama Rail Road
Dude, that's great!
I read about that job in a Times article some time ago, and always considered applying for it, but I already have a job so there will probably be a time conflict.
How did you go about applying, and what are the general outlines of the Traffic Checker?
Well it was my brother,who also works in the TA,that told me to go for it.He saw the application on the MTA website and he printed it out,I filled it out and sent it in along with a money order,I forgot what the amount of the money order was.After that I just waited to get a response from them,then I went to take the test,which was easy and here I am,having waited for over a year and finally I'm taking the first step to getting one hell of a good job.Although I still prefer to be a C/R.But looks like that'll come 2nd.
As for the general outlines,if you mean what they do,it's basicly standing at where ever they want you for a certain amount of time taking down whatever information they want you too.Like how many people are in a train car or are walking up staircases or even getting, I believe, run numbers of the buses.It's a part time job...well in my case it is,I dunno if they have full time positions and you get paid around $12 an hour.So overall it's a very good,and easy job. You also get paid while your in training classes.I like that you can bet.There was another application for Traffic Checker late last year and there aren't any this year so hopefull next year they'll want more TC's.I say you should apply for it.If it's truly a part-time job,no full time,you could work the days you have off from your other work or quit your current work and go for this one.I highly recommend this job.To me,besides being a cleaner,this is the easiest job there is in the MTA.
FINALLY!! After going this past Friday downtown to practically do NOTHING,the employment center called me an hour ago and told me to go back on Monday at 8:30AM and to bring everything with me.Money order,ID's,birth certificate.We shall see what happens on Monday and I shall gladly report to you all what happen's on that day.
Good Luck V Train B47 Bus, Look to me like you will start training second week of April for 3 weeks. If you want to know more about Traffic Checker just Email Bxcoolist@aol.com
Peace
David
^_^
Peace
DNJ
To anyone interested yesterday at work I stayed late at the yard. While there I discovered in the shop brand new GeniFare fare boxes that except the standard coins and dollars. In addition to that, they are suppose to except "smart cards" there was another big box full of "smart card" boxes that i guess would be attached to the farebox. So that would spell the end to paper transfers for Suffolk and the meaningless paper work that we have to write down everytime we stop the bus and pick up passengers! Yay! I say about time! Don't have a clue as to when they will be installed. Heard something like by the summer it will be done. I think we are the only system here in NY that still uses paper transfers and run out of them too!
CBS Lines has the new boxes installed on their buses but I don't think the new transfers are up and running yet. I guess they are waiting til the rest of the county gets the rest. Post more later as I get more details.
D.
S61 Port Jefferson
How is the new transfers look like? Is it like the kind that LIBus uses or is it like more like the one CTTransit uses? and the transfers print out too right?
Haven't seen the what the transfers look like as of yet. There was a small box stacked on top of the fareboxes. I'm assuming that those are probably "trail run" transfers that are currently blank. Or it could be the electrical equipment to program the boxes. Most likely they will be printed up. Tomorrow when I go back to work, I'll do some more looking around and report more details.
D.
S59 Sayville
Have fun, and develop a BIG sense of patience when passengers TRY to insert dollar bills into those fareboxes. For some reason, those fareboxes are the finickiest I have ever dealt with in 30 years of driving buses!!!
I suppose Metrocard is out of he question ?
That I don't know but I'll ask about that. That would be neat if they except metrocard. But you you how Suffolk County is, they are doing their own thing out here. They are trying (or been trying) to get as far away from MTA as much as possible. But you never know.
D.
S66 Riverhead
It's times like these I'm glad the MTA's and the Queens' Private lines buses don't accept dollar bills.
Many times, GENFare boxes simply will stop accepting dollar bills altogether. These boxes are full of fun suprises!
The older GFI boxes we had were good at that...but at least if they DID accept the bills, they didn't put up a fight with the customer trying to insert them. These new GFI's are the shits.....I think out of 1100 drivers at the agency where I drive, 1100 hate them. As well as all our road supervisors and mechanics who work on them.
I tried to talk to the GFI people at the APTA expo in Las Vegas last year, about their product. They were arrogant and didn't want to hear any input....only sell more of them to other agencies. My base manager said she received the very same reaction from them, they were very unreceptive to feedback.
Thanks to my sister, my new bus pictures site is up. Current pictures include NYC,Las Vegas and Suffolk. Current plans include PACE,CTA, Mobile Transit Authority and LIBUS. The address is http://members.aol.com/pingu45/busses.html Please let me know what you think!
Cool pictures! I hope you get more. Hope the roster worked out for ya!
D.
S40 Babylon Rail Road
it did. do u know if Suffolk is hiring? would love to work for either inter county coach or EBT
VERY nice photos. I especially love the fact that it opens with a NYCTA Flxible New Look. Will you be adding pics of your model bus fleet as well?
-F.
i really miss the new looks. That bus (and 9278, unless it went to FP late in life) ran until about 1993.
The only 9000 series new look Flx I recall FP ever having were 9070-9079 (original order) and later OA's 9174.
expect more from my site next week, including CAT buses and CTA. I will try to put up about 4-5 pictures per week. eventually, ill be adding LIBUS photos(remember the orion II they had, i got a picture of it)-plus Suffolk Buses. More to come, stay tuned ;-)
I found this last night. This is the famous NOVA Bus LFS model in ho scale. The store's site says its not avaible. But i would love to own it. If anyone knows where to get this, let me know. I will buy it. But tell me what u think.
I think that's a custom made bus but where did you find that?
not a custome made bus. go to http://www.galery.1zu87.com and look for buses under den Oudsten B91-Omnibus-Modelle. its a real bus and i do want it.
That would certainly be a neat bus to customize. I am envisioning this thing in Cleveland RTA colors already.
-F.
Got a hundred bucks?
The LFS seemed to work well in Charlotte. I don't recall ever seeing one broken down (not saying it never happened). Although I did find it strange that CATS went heavy on the Glligs on the weekends.
Really now? So Charlotte has become a Gillig city. It's so strange how many Flxible-rich TAs are going Gillig when it's time for new buses...a lot of that has to do with bids. Are they still running Flxes there?
-F.
Before I moved back to Dallas the Flxes were satill running. They were also in very good shape.
That's GREAT news. Usually I hear the opposite when I inquire about Flxibles still in service. Thanks for the update!
-F.
why...u have it or you know where to get it?? email me at vautrin179@aol.com with the information
>I found this last night. This is the famous NOVA Bus LFS model in ho
>scale. The store's site says its not avaible. But i would love to
>own it. If anyone knows where to get this, let me know. I will buy
>it. But tell me what u think
Does it come with its own HO scale tow truck?? :) :)
-Tyler-
lol... or an HO scale maintenance vechicle that follows the LFS coach around.
Flatbed or regular? GOOD THING there is no ho-scale Gillig bus, Phantom or Advantage!
Actually, there is. I have custom made a few HO scale Gillig Phantoms in 30 and 35-foot versions. Depending on volume, I may have a mold made and mass-produce them if demand ever takes off.
-F.
It has been reported that coach 5201, one of the new Gillig Advantage series (52XX-53XX), is at PAT headquarters in Manchester. It is most likely the coach is here for demo purposes. Sources have also said that according to Gillig, the Advantages are in production in should start arriving in the next few months. For all those PAT fans, get your pictures of the Orion V coaches soon, because the Gillig Advantages are their replacements. Some of the Orions should last a while longer though, because there are 225 Orion coaches and only 160 coaches in the Gillig order.
Any photos-specs. on them and also do pat still consider Neoplan as a supplier for future buses.
No pics of the demo. I'm told it was hidden shortly after it arrived on the property.
The future of Neoplan & PAT is dependant on two things... a.) whether or not Neoplan stays in business and b.) when or if PAT gets the order of 25 articulated coaches they awarded Neoplan.
The old NJ-based Orange & Black Bus Company, which ran from NJ to the Port of Authority terminal, was absorbed(along with Inter-City lines) into Maplewood Equpment Company. I remember the "Old Look" suburbans were retired in 1977, but the "Fishbowls" continued to run into the 1980s, under NJT ownership, some of them still retaining thier original O&B paint (minus the lettering). These buses were some of the most handsome on the road, and, as I grew up with them, I knew them very well. I recall they also had a fleet of very handsome suburban Macks up until around 1964/65, before they were replaced with new Fishbowls. Anyone know if any former Orange & Black buses have been preserved?
I have purchased a number of plastic old-look style toy buses from a street vendor (this one located in the PABT, just before you enter the doors leading into the subway from the terminal)I guess they could pass as GMCs, but the front ends look more like Macks. They are lettered "CITY BUS" and run about $4 bucks.....scale is about the same as the Corgi old looks....These buses would look great on an O scale transit-themed layout. I am sure other street vendors have them as well....Chinatown, I'm sure, has a number, but the onces I purched were in the PABT.
They came originally in five different liveries with "Western Castle" on the destination signs. They were either green and white, red and white, tan and brown, orange and black, or yellow.
Then two school bus liveries came out -- one solid school bus yellow, the other with a white roof.
And then came the police bus version, painted very similar to how the Crown Coach jail buses of the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department are painted.
And more recently, I've been seeing them in various liveries for popular products such as Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc.
Yes, I have the ones you are talking of....these new ones I purchased are plastic, not die cast as the others are.....these come in red, blue, and green with white roofs. I first purchased mine about a motnh ago. I also have the Sherriff's Dept Bus...I saw similiar buses some years ago in an article in BUS WORLD magazine from LA.
Do you know where I can get New-Look buses? (I have seen Old-Look model buses for sale, but they have nothing on the New Looks, Rohr Flxible or GM.)
Please e-mail me at flxible169@yahoo.com; I may be able to help you.
Thanks!
-F.
On Jay St across from TA headquarters, there is a Chinese gift shop that sells die cast models of different NYC Vehicles. The best I thought was of a TA bus. I don't know the model name. But it comes in the TA colors of while and blue and it's an older model. It looks good and for $4 each, I gave bought a few and gave them out for Christmas Presents last year.
It sounds like a GM Fishbowl without A/C. Does it have a pull-back friction motor? Those are numerous at hobby shops and street vendors. They are painted in NYC transit colors but do not have official markings and labeled "NEW YORK BUS" with a destination sign of "Central Station". There are also also a silver and a light blue version with blue and red stripes and a GREYHOUD dog symbol on the side. No company name but the same "Central Station" destination sign.
you are correct...the Fishbowls are the non a/c variety.....they have no friction pull back motors.For the price, though, you can't go wrong!
Absolutely; I agree. And you can always tweak them to be the way you want them. In fact, two years ago I did a custom CAT (Las Vegas) version for caine824; it features a scratchbuilt A/C unit and actual bus wheels with tandems for a realistic look.
Those things really clean up when you detail them; same with the Jimson banks. Add a set of nice wheels, and you instantly turn them from toy to model!
-F.
I LOVE those. They are a great medium for customizing. That company really went the right way when they decided to do the Fishbowl.
-F.
Anyone remember the R&B classic "Drift Away" by Dobie Gray? I heard this on digital cable radio the other day, and immediately thought of something I saw on VH-1's "8 Track Flashback" program a few years ago. Dobie is standing in the middle of a park singing the song (clad in yards of tacky polyester, of course). Meanwhile, a yellow and silver Fishbowl stops behind him on a nearby street. I assume this was a Boston "T"?
For those of you who think MTV was the first to show music videos, this song was a hit in 1973, which predates that channel by eight years. In short, a great old song with a great old bus.
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Saw this neoclassic series on Nick At Nite (featuring a post-WKRP Howard Hesseman); as he is walking through the streets of NYC, a Flxible New Look in white with blue stripes rolls by in the beginning of each episode. What a neat thing to see on television!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
1990 TMC RTS #8312 has got transfered from Yukon to Castleton Depot. I saw it on the S46 on Tuesday.
Castleton: Isnt it an all Orion depot?
It also had MCI's. There are also many 1xx busses there also. I see them on the S52 and S42 alot.
There is no way YUK would have transferred 8312 to CAS. YUK needs it for it's runs.
What you saw was one of 3 things:
1 - CAS needed a bus t borrow so they sent driver to YUK to borrow.
2 - Bus was at Ferry as one parked there - driver's original bus broke down and took that one.
3 - It was an X-Piece School Run?
This has happened before - one night I saw 4897 in service on S53, and the next day in service on S79. What you saw was one of the 3 things I mentioned.
From Seneca and Madison, Q58 to Flushing, QBX1 to Pelham Bay Pk, W45 to New Rochelle, W61 to Port Chester, Former "K" Bus, now 11 to Stamford and same bus turns into 41 to Norwalk, Coastal Link to Milford and O2 (Sylvan) to New Haven Green
Took about 10½ hours. Leaving between 7:15-7:30 AM, It of course took a little over an hour for the long winding ride across Queens. The QBX1 came pretty quickly, but the problems started on the Bee Line. I just missed the 45, and that ran every hour, and then I missed the 61 and that was also every hour. This put me two hours behind, so it should have been 8½ hours. The 11/41 came quickly, but I had to wait almost an hour for the Coastal link. From there the connections went well. The Connecticut buses run better than the Westchester Buses, and it was the Westchester portion of the trip that messed me up, where you would have thought it would be more difficult to get across Connecticut. That portion was however slower than I thought— not the waiting, but the actual running time. I figured the further away you get from the city, the opulation density dies down, and some of those busses would cover a lot of ground in less time. But it was like Westcherster (the denser suburban section immediately outside the city) the whole way, with stops every couple of blocks almost, and many traffic lights (some of which seems to favor the little cross road). The Coastal Link sounded like it would be the fastest section, but it took 2 hours from Norwalk to Milford, picking up a lot of people heading against the peak direction into Bridgeport.
This was the original plan I had been thinking of for almost 20 years. Going to Springfield by bus or someone driving, I always wondered ebout all the towns in between NY and New Haven, and thought it was interesting how the architecture of the old buildings gradually changes from what we see in New York, to New England. (Like all those big dark "porches" or verandas with wooden stairs from the top floor to the ground, which serve as their "fire escapes", as well as a back stairway. This is on every prewar building in Springfield, but in Connecticut and to some extent Westchester, it is mixed). Last year when some friends drove us to New Haven to see Yale Univ., and I had confirmed (on the schedule brochures) that the New Haven system connected with the Bridgeport system, which connected with the Stamford system, (which I already new connected with Bee Line) I began seriously planning the trip, and only needed a time when I felt up to it .
But this time I had decided to shoot for Springfield itself, believe it or not. But I ran out of time, and going beyond New Haven by local bus is a bit trickier. The C1x goes to Meriden Sq., and from there you can get New Britain "A" Bus to New Britain, and then the O or S to Corbin Corner/West Farms Mall, and then a variety of different Hartford buses to downtown. If I hadn't missed the two connections in Westchester, I would have gotten to New Haven around 3:45 instead of 5:45, and could have caught a 4:37 "C", and if the other buses waited for the connection (and these would by now have been the last runs on some of them!), Then I probably could have gotten to Hartford by 8:15. This still would have been a bit late, as I shall explain. From there there is an express bus to Enfield, which connects with PVTA, but the Enfield bus is a diferent agancy, and it does not seem to have the schedule on it's site. And that late it might not have been running. The last PVTA#16 to Springfield left at 6. So it could be done, and if I left maybe even earler, and especially if I just went to Dyre and caught the 61 directly there. But I thought it would be nicer if I went by bus from my near house.
I was never interested in the inbetween towns past New Haven (because there it is more countrylike), but decided to extend the trip so I could visit my grandmother who turned 86 a few weeks ago. I haven't been up there in 14 years, and have only seen her since when she came to my wedding, which will be 10 years this fall. There might not be much more time left, and with my work schedule, I kept missing my father when he drove up there. We were supposed to go sometime, but his health has gotten bad recently, so I don't know when that will be. It would have been nice to have gone the whoe 150 or so miles, not only to brag about, and the sights, but also the money. I would have taken Greyhound/Peter Pan back, for $32, but do not have enough now (during my vacation) to go both ways from NY. (I really wanted to go to Chicago (for the first stime) or Norfolk, but those are definitely out, financially, for now).
As it was, I only spent a total of $4 for the whole trip to New Haven. (pass on Q58, transfer to QBX1, since they do not always take TA pass), $2 Bee Line ($1.75 + .25 transfer), $1 CT Stamford, free transfer to Coastal Link, then $1 New Haven "O2". A total of seven buses from Ridgewood to New Haven! Returned on Metro North with pass. I thought of continuing to Springfield via interstate trvel, but Greyhound left at 7:30 and got up there at 9 something. Since I wasn't staying over, I did not want to show up that late and then still have to go back home. Plus it was $19. Amtrak was much faster, but $29— from New Haven to Springfield that is! They wonder why they are always in financial troubel, but maybe more people would ride if their prices weren't so ridiculous. So I just took a 6:59 to Grand Central, whizzing by in 1½ hours the almost 11 hours of road I had traveled.
The buses taken:
Q58, a 9500 series;
QBX1, Orion;
W45, Flxible Metro (note: the engines on these sound different. Still a DD6V-92, but sounds almost like a turbocharged fishbowl or something, rather then other Metro's which sound just like the RTS's. Is this a different transmission or something?
W61 Orion
K(11/41) Flyer D40LF (this too sounded different from series 50. More like a school bus or truck. Is this a Cummins?)
CL: Gillig (#110)
New Haven: MCI Classic (older, 28xx IIRC, with 6V92). Used my transfer to take another one to get to Union Station, since it was cold and rainy by then.
Population density may be light also across portions of Northern Nassau, but there are alot of mirgrant workers that travel out here from Queens. Also we have lights that favor side streets (Northern Blvd,example).
I havent rode Suffolk Transit buses out east, but I remember seeing alot of packed buses as far as east as Patchogue.
There may be less population density, but with less frequent buses and alot of migrant workers, buses can be packed and run slow.
The buses taken:
Q58, a 9500 series;
QBX1, Orion;
W45, Flxible Metro (note: the engines on these sound different. Still a DD6V-92, but sounds almost like a turbocharged fishbowl or something, rather then other Metro's which sound just like the RTS's. Is this a different transmission or something?
The Flxible 40102-6T MEtro-Bs that Westchester County runs have a Detroit Diesel 6V92 engine with a Voith transmission. That is why they sound different. VOith transmissions with 6V92 engines is actually VERY rare...as 6V92s are usually hooked up to Allison transmissions.
K(11/41) Flyer D40LF (this too sounded different from series 50. More like a school bus or truck. Is this a Cummins?)
No, that engine is, afaik, a Detroit Diesel series 40E engine hooked to an Allison transmission. Though it sounds like a Cummins engine, sorta...but it's a DD S40E IIRC.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
From Seneca and Madison, Q58 to Flushing, QBX1 to Pelham Bay Pk, W45 to New Rochelle, W61 to Port Chester, Former "K" Bus, now 11 to Stamford and same bus turns into 41 to Norwalk, Coastal Link to Milford and O2 (Sylvan) to New Haven Green
Took about 10½ hours. Leaving between 7:15-7:30 AM, It of course took a little over an hour for the long winding ride across Queens. The QBX1 came pretty quickly, but the problems started on the Bee Line. I just missed the 45, and that ran every hour, and then I missed the 61 and that was also every hour. This put me two hours behind, so it should have been 8½ hours. The 11/41 came quickly, but I had to wait almost an hour for the Coastal link. From there the connections went well. The Connecticut buses run better than the Westchester Buses, and it was the Westchester portion of the trip that messed me up, where you would have thought it would be more difficult to get across Connecticut. That portion was however slower than I thought— not the waiting, but the actual running time. I figured the further away you get from the city, the opulation density dies down, and some of those busses would cover a lot of ground in less time. But it was like Westcherster (the denser suburban section immediately outside the city) the whole way, with stops every couple of blocks almost, and many traffic lights (some of which seems to favor the little cross road). The Coastal Link sounded like it would be the fastest section, but it took 2 hours from Norwalk to Milford, picking up a lot of people heading against the peak direction into Bridgeport.
This was the original plan I had been thinking of for almost 20 years. Going to Springfield by bus or someone driving, I always wondered ebout all the towns in between NY and New Haven, and thought it was interesting how the architecture of the old buildings gradually changes from what we see in New York, to New England. (Like all those big dark "porches" or verandas with wooden stairs from the top floor to the ground, which serve as their "fire escapes", as well as a back stairway. This is on every prewar building in Springfield, but in Connecticut and to some extent Westchester, it is mixed). Last year when some friends drove us to New Haven to see Yale Univ., and I had confirmed (on the schedule brochures) that the New Haven system connected with the Bridgeport system, which connected with the Stamford system, (which I already new connected with Bee Line) I began seriously planning the trip, and only needed a time when I felt up to it .
But this time I had decided to shoot for Springfield itself, believe it or not. But I ran out of time, and going beyond New Haven by local bus is a bit trickier. The C1x goes to Meriden Sq., and from there you can get New Britain "A" Bus to New Britain, and then the O or S to Corbin Corner/West Farms Mall, and then a variety of different Hartford buses to downtown. If I hadn't missed the two connections in Westchester, I would have gotten to New Haven around 3:45 instead of 5:45, and could have caught a 4:37 "C", and if the other buses waited for the connection (and these would by now have been the last runs on some of them!), Then I probably could have gotten to Hartford by 8:15. This still would have been a bit late, as I shall explain. From there there is an express bus to Enfield, which connects with PVTA, but the Enfield bus is a diferent agancy, and it does not seem to have the schedule on it's site. And that late it might not have been running. The last PVTA#16 to Springfield left at 6. So it could be done, and if I left maybe even earler, and especially if I just went to Dyre and caught the 61 directly there. But I thought it would be nicer if I went by bus from my near house.
I was never interested in the inbetween towns past New Haven (because there it is more countrylike), but decided to extend the trip so I could visit my grandmother who turned 86 a few weeks ago. I haven't been up there in 14 years, and have only seen her since when she came to my wedding, which will be 10 years this fall. There might not be much more time left, and with my work schedule, I kept missing my father when he drove up there. We were supposed to go sometime, but his health has gotten bad recently, so I don't know when that will be. It would have been nice to have gone the whoe 150 or so miles, not only to brag about, and the sights, but also the money. I would have taken Greyhound/Peter Pan back, for $32, but do not have enough now (during my vacation) to go both ways from NY. (I really wanted to go to Chicago (for the first stime) or Norfolk, but those are definitely out, financially, for now).
As it was, I only spent a total of $4 for the whole trip to New Haven. (pass on Q58, transfer to QBX1, since they do not always take TA pass), $2 Bee Line ($1.75 + .25 transfer), $1 CT Stamford, free transfer to Coastal Link, then $1 New Haven "O2". A total of seven buses from Ridgewood to New Haven! Returned on Metro North with pass. I thought of continuing to Springfield via interstate trvel, but Greyhound left at 7:30 and got up there at 9 something. Since I wasn't staying over, I did not want to show up that late and then still have to go back home. Plus it was $19. Amtrak was much faster, but $29— from New Haven to Springfield that is! They wonder why they are always in financial troubel, but maybe more people would ride if their prices weren't so ridiculous. So I just took a 6:59 to Grand Central, whizzing by in 1½ hours the almost 11 hours of road I had traveled.
The buses taken:
Q58, a 9500 series;
QBX1, Orion;
W45, Flxible Metro (note: the engines on these sound different. Still a DD6V-92, but sounds almost like a turbocharged fishbowl or something, rather then other Metro's which sound just like the RTS's. Is this a different transmission or something?
W61 Orion
K(11/41) Flyer DL40 (this too sounded different from series 50. More like a school bus or truck. Is this a Cummins?)
CL: Gillig #110
New Haven: MCI Classic (older, 28xx IIRC, with 6V92). Used my transfer to take another one to get to Union Station, since it was cold and rainy by then.
[The C1x goes to Meriden Sq., and from there you can get New Britain "A" Bus to New Britain, and then the O or S to Corbin Corner/West Farms Mall, and then a variety of different Hartford buses to downtown.]
From downtown New Britain, the CT Transit "P" bus goes directly to downtown Hartford, eliminating the need to change buses. Interestingly, there are 3 buses on the mid-day P runs; two are CT Transit buses, and one is a Dattco bus, as the P route is a joint operation.
[From there there is an express bus to Enfield, which connects with PVTA, but the Enfield bus is a diferent agancy, and it does not seem to have the schedule on it's site.]
The Hartford to Enfield express bus is run by CT Transit's Hartford Division and is pretty much a rush hour service.
Oh, i missed that "P" line connection. It heads more east through Newington, and I probably thought it didn't go into Hartford. That would be better, because it goes through an area I've never seen (Greyhound/Peter Pan or Bonanza often stop at Westfarms/Crbin Corner)
There was also a Dattco from New Haven to Middletown which connects with Hartford "M" lines (replacing a CTTrans New Haven service as I was told), but the Dattco's I saw were over the road coaches. There was also a Norwalk transit bus running the CL which caught up to and passed us, so a Norwalk bus (all seemingly 35' RTS's) goes as far as Milford.
The express to Enfield seems to be a slighly different agency, called "Hartford Transit District", and is shown on the map, but has no schedules on the website.
I'm thinking now of continuing the trip, picking up from New Haven, and I would start out early enough to make the Enfield connection. This to say that I have been the whole way, plus the money saving. It looks like it could be $3-5 depending on the fare of the express, and if it takes tramsfers from the P. Since it seems that leg of the trip would be faster (even though it is about the same distance), I should be able to do it on a first RDO without it making me tired for work.
[There was also a Norwalk transit bus running the CL which caught up to and passed us, so a Norwalk bus (all seemingly 35' RTS's) goes as far as Milford.]
I believe the Coastal Link is a joint operation between the Norwalk, Bridgeport and Milford Transit Districts. Because CL replaced previous Bridgeport routes, most of the buses on CL are Bridgeport buses. But some of the runs utilize Milford and Norwalk buses.
[The express to Enfield seems to be a slighly different agency, called "Hartford Transit District", and is shown on the map, but has no schedules on the website.]
Trust me, you will find the Enfield Express timetable on the CT Transit web site. The [Greater] Hartford Transit District is more of a planning agency, although some of the non-CT Transit commuter express routes in the Hartford area are operated by Dattco, Post Road Stages, New Britain Transportation and Kelley Transportation under contract with the Greater Hartford Transit District. I don't remember the District having any relationship with the Enfield Express, which has always been a CT Transit route.
OK, I found it. It was under a separate link called "express service".
Gee, you could have taken (IIRC) bus D from New Haven to Trolley Square in East Haven and then walked to the Shoreline Trolley Museum to view the two old looks we still have on the property and perhaps visited with some fellow Bus-Talkers and Sub-Talkers who volunteer there.
Oh yeah, looking at the road map after I got back, I saw how close Branford was (I always thought it was out by New London or something)and thought, I could have kept going east. How late does it stay open?
The museum doesn't open until the last sunday in April. It opens at 10AM and the last trolley leaves Sprague Visitors center at 4:30PM. Usually if the 3/4 ton crew is there we don't finish up until around 7 or 8 (when it gets dark late), go locally for dinner and return to NYC.
The grounds are part of a land trust and the locals can walk through the property at all hours. The land cannot be gated because of the land trust. If you chose to walk around no one would stop you....If Ted E (Curator) or George B administrator were to stop you, a plausible explanation that you're visiting and contribute to the Bus-Talk boards would probably suffice.
IF you come up this route in the summer and someone is up there they usually won't mind bringing you back to the Bronx or Queens where you can catch some public transportation home....Just agree to share the gas/tolls and you'd probably be okay.
another way(sightseeing) Q44, Bx9, Bx28, Bx16(Pelham), W61, etc
or shortcut Q44, Bx9, W61, etc this way you only have to take 1 bee line bus
I was watching the inevitable war coverage on ABC earlier this evening, maybe about 6:30 - 7:00. They apparantly went with the local affiliate (I'm assuming that'd be WABC, I don't live in NY), for a story on the Times Square anti-war protests, I think the reporter was a Chris something, sadly I've forgotten his name. Anyway, about a quarter of the way through his speach, an RTS appeared to the right of him on Broadway (he was standing on a platform on that strip of sidewalk in between 7th Ave and Brodaway, apparantly at the south end, but I could be wrong on that), the camera moved slightly to the right. About halfway through the interview, an Orion pulled up behind the RTS, and another RTS pulled up to the right of the other RTS. Now the cameraman just turned completely off the reporter and, if I'm not mistaken, zoomed in slightly on the Orion. Sadly I was unable to get the bus numbers before they moved off.
Now I could be completely wrong about this, but I know the cameraman did pan to the Busses. Perhaps it was planned, to show something 'New York' like an MTA bus. I just found it odd that, seemingly inexplicably, the cameraman started looking at some busses.
I saw that piece, too...
1. Chris Cuomo reports for ABC (network), not WABC (affiliate).
2. I'm sure the camera operator (could have been a woman!) was looking at some activity on the sidewalk or in the distance - they were filming at about 46th-47th Streets, and the protests were concentrated at 42nd-43rd Streets.
test
I read it. Going to do something to me? ;)
OK. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
why is that some more experience MCI drivers take turns at such high speeds. Riding on NJ transit, there were times when I almost fell out of my seat. The driver took a turn at 40MPH. I never knew a MCI D4000 can be pushed like that without falling over. Why do some drivers do that? The bus can take it bus it is hell on the pax.
My experience has been that buses are capable of taking curves at relatively high speeds. I think in general that buses are more capable than many of us think. Obviously they have their limitations. One thing that makes me laugh to this day is that I have a friend who's a B/O and he's an awesome driver, but he seems to think that a car cannot not get away from him - which is pure B/S. That's like saying a regular car keep up with a motorcylce which again would invoke much laughter.
Wayne
i would fall out of my seat if i was looking for some money
I had this driver on Wednesday on the QM18 going home and had OrionV Suburban #719 on the 5:40 PM. This driver took turns verry fast and was doing about 45-50 MPH down Queens Blvd and this driver went about 45 MPH down Kew Gardens Road and he was driveing so fast that he miss my stop by a few feet(My stop is the KG Road and 83 Ave stop.)and I got off right infront of the church on KG Road. And this trip was running real late because of traffic in manhattan.
I got this bus at 6:20 PM at 57 St and 3 Ave and got off at my stop at about 7:15 PM.
Hmm i reminder one time i was on a neoplan artic the driver took turns so fast and on a hill to with blind sharp turns with pedal down to the metal i fault that the artic will come apart.
Ride with me and you'll see what a MCI can REALLY DO!!!!
Trevor
well u drive buses for the military and buses can do a lot more than what people think. trust me us bus drivers know what we are doing.
Is JG getting Nova's?? Becuase I saw Bus #9398 on the B65 Line today with JG Stickers.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Is B65 a JG Line?
Yes.
Ok
Hello there,
Listen, let's not jump to conclusions. I'm sure NovaBus RTS-06 #9398 is at JG for a perfectly good reason.
Let me explain, back in 1994, Orion 05.501 #294 was on the Q75 going to Oakland Gardens. Bus #294 had QV stickers on it. About a week later, bus #294 was on the Q13 back with CS stickers...so this could be temporary.
Dont forget that CS 568 went with 294 to QV at that time both are at CS soon though 568 will be back at QV this time for good.
Wasn't 6136 at QV for a brief time?
#6136 Q46
I know that, this has happened to JG before, but my question is why? Are there not enough buses at JG?
9398??? Thats a FLA bus. How and why did it go to JG???
B46#9398
I remember for a time in either late 1999 or early 2000 the new 6000 series of Orions were coming in, and they stayed for a bit at JG. Around that time there were also 9400s at JG (two or three I believe).
I know 9393 was there before and then went back.
I know, thats exactly what I said, but it had the JG stickers and was packed going towards Crown Heights, I saw it at New York ave. and Dean St.
B16#9398
I was thinking yesterday about a new line which would put the B4 in Gleason in would Service the following areas:
Bath Beach, Borough Park, Sunset Park, Park Slpoe, Gowans, and Downtown Brooklyn
It would give UP a downtown routes that why the B4 would go to Gleason Maybe te X27/37
Here is The Route plan 4 the new B5:
Northbound To - Downtown Broklyn/Candem Plaza
Right on Shore Pkwy
Right On 15 av
Right on independenca ave
Left on 16 Av
Left on 60 St
Right on 4 Av
Left on Flatbush av
Left on Tillary St
Left on Candme Plaza West
STAND
SouthBound To - Bath Beach/Independenca Av
Left on Livingston St
Left on Adams St
Right on Fulton St
Right on Flatbush Av
Right on 4 av
Left on 60 St
Right on 16 av
To Independenca Av
STAND
What do u Think
9077 - B5
9095 - B5
I don't understand the purpose for such a line. Please elaborate.
David
I should have posted my response here instead of to novaRts#9095. My mistake!
I think he wants a "one seat" ride for the 2 or 3 people who want to go from Bath Beach to Downtown Brooklyn. Or he wants Ulmer Park to finally get representation down by the Fulton Mall area!
[I think he wants a "one seat" ride for the 2 or 3 people who want to go from Bath Beach to Downtown Brooklyn.]
Those 2 or 3 people can talk the M during rush hours, or the W to Pacific Street and transfer.
- - - - -
[Or he wants Ulmer Park to finally get representation down by the Fulton Mall area!]
Having a particular depot "represented" in a particular area is a silly reason (at best) for creating a route, especially when some existing routes are overcrowded.
I hope you know, I was being sarcastic (hopefully)!
Has anybody heard of a bus company named CDTA in Albany,Ny if so do you know any info from longtime ago. CDTA
I know someone whol lives up in Albany...actually, a few people...I have photos of all their bus models...in fact, I was up there a week or two ago...
Contact me at cleanairbus@yahoo.com for a further discussion
Your proposed route does not make sense.
1-Where will it start in Bath Beach?
2-It will be much too long unless its a Limited Service only
3-You already have several alternatives via the subway
4-I do not think their will be a market for such a service
Thats my opinion
Thank You
I think the route's too redundant, because there is train service available to/from the area.
According to a message at my BUS-O-RAMA Yahoo! site, it looks like SEPTA will award the 360 bus purchase to NEW FLYER! That means that NEW FLYER will be the predominant bus in Philadelphia. So its goodbye NEOPLAN [except the artics].
!NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
u gotta be kiddin me. let me call septa up for this one...
NO!!!! MY NEOs! Well, at least they are being replaced by a worthy company, instead of NABI and Orion. It's really sad though. SEPTA without Neoplans all over the place...it's hard to imagine. It's funny. I never thought that SEPTA would get New Flyers, and now they're gonna replace the Neoplans.
At least there not replacing the NEO's (artics and all) with RTS' built by NOVA.
They couldn't anyway. NovaBUS discontinued the RTS last year. It now only makes the crappy LFS buses that Disney_RTS loves so much--NOT!
watch it there, Orion and NABIs are decent busses.
Well, Orion is a decent bus, but I don't think of it as a SEPTA type bus. I really think the Orion VII looks very bad in white trim. NABI's may be okay now, but the ones SEPTA has have had suspension problems - they aren't well liked by drivers. One had a leaky roof, with really inconvenienced my ride.
Hi Basman,
It seems like you don't like buses currently available in the market....
I'm sure there are some unknown reasons why SEPTA and PAT gave up Neoplan for NABI then New Flyer, and Gillig for their new 40ft buses order and both TAs have made a precise, if not appropriate, decision.
oh my. I must seem like I hate buses. I'm just dissapointed that Neoplan is no longer the driving force of SEPTA, and I'm surprised that the frequently bashed upon Gilligs are taking to the harsh Pittsburgh streets. I'm sure they had their reasons. Variety in a fleet is interesting. It would've been interesting to have New Flyer low floors and Neo low floors, but alas, that shall not happen...it's not that i don't like them, you know. I personally have nothing against Gillig or Orion, except for the fact that the Orions seem to get less attractive with every model...Gillig Phantoms are cool except for the front and the flat sides. I liek the style of the top of the bus around the destination sign and the back, where there is a flat panel perfect for a fleet number or rear route number sign. I don't really like the Advantage that much though, except that they are pretty fast.
Who would have thought that PAT would become Gillig dominated and SEPTA would become New Flyer dominated? I'm not really surprised in the least that New Flyer won the SEPTA order though. Say what you want about Orion (OBI), but, I wish they would have gotten the PAT order of 35 footers, rather than the Phantoms.
I personally think New Flyers are dull, boring buses, that last personality and charisma, but, the ones that I've rode, have been fairly reliable and well liked by the drivers and maintenance.
The ones with the Cummins engines coupled to the Voith transmission have no personality. They suck. Except when the A/C is off. Then they are interesting and those babies are speed demons.
Ride a New Flyer from 1996-98 with a DD50 and Allison B400 and you'll hear personality AND power. They're not as fast as they used to be, but that deep throaty sound they produce more than mkaes up for that.
I know that the septa nabis were as fast as the new flyer when they were new now the non-overhaul one have bad troble going up a hill.
I agree with you about Orion for PAT. Orion would seem like a good company for PAT. About the New Flyers, I've never personally had the oppurtunity to ride one myself, but fromt eh many times I've seen them and heard their engine, well, they seem to have the run of the mill DDC50 sound, except when they have that wooshy sound once in a while that's comparable (or exactly like as a matter of fact) WMATA's Metro Es. The other buses of the fleet with that engine (NABIs and Neoplan artics) add their own unique sound to the engine. The NABIs have the standard hum and the Neoplan have that high pitched whistle. You can tell just by hearing them what type of bus you are about to get.
the reason why the heo artics sound different is because they have b500 allison transmissions, not b400's. but now that septa is getting new flyers... lets discuss the narrow streets of philadelphia that they are gonna be driving on. but goodbye neoplan you will always be my favorite bus. but septa should've at least ordered about 50 to 100 an440 standard floor 96 in wide ddec50 b400 allison transmission 41 st bus (i had neoplan send me some literature and i have a sheet on an440's and an440lf's with an460's) for those bus routes that have to travel on narrow streets, but oh well. congrats, new flyer. if i wasnt gonna pick neoplan i sure as hell wouldve picked new flyer. its a good bus.
What New Flyer they getting? The D40LF or the D40 Invero?
Most likely the D40LF. I highly doubt that anyone at SEPTA would've gone with the Invero after we recieved 300 D40LFs.
I'm sorry, this is not on topic, but I'm just too stoked to let it go unheard.
GO TERPS!!! WHAT A FINISH!!! Drew Nicholas = OWNAGE!!!
Yes - That last second shot was awesome. I'd bet we may even see some UMD buses displaying "GO TERPS" on the destination sign.
Wayne
When the Terps made it to the Sweet 16 for the first time in 1994, I asked the dispatcher if I could display "Go Terps" on the side sign since we were instructed to have all signs reading the destination. Even if it 'slipped' which would happen once in awhile to the roll signs, we'd get told to fix it. So, they said no problem to displaying that for the one night I was doing the "Circuit" run. It was great almost plowing over the drunks running around Route 1. Some of the morons dared you to hit the. I think I almost made one guy wet his pants when he stood in the middle of the road staring at me and I went past him on his right blaring my horn.
That's pretty good. I wonder why they want to try to terrorize the buses. Lately I've noticed the 40-foot Metro-B's on the Silver Spring Metro route a lot these days. When the '01 Gilligs arrived they seemed to replace the Metro-B on the Silver Spring route. It's great to see the Metro back again.
Wayne
Unfortunately, a lot of the kids that go there tend to be, lets say, hmm, spoiled. Not everyone, mind you, but there is a lot of disrespect, or at least there was when I went there and had to deal with them more personally driving the bus. They'd try pushing the doors open before they were ready to open, stomp all over it when the got on, roughhouse, everything you can think of. Then, when they'd come back from the bars, forget it!!! The students that drove on campus were extremely rude to the buses as well. I used to sometimes stop the bus diagonally with the butt of the bus sticking out to prevent cars from passing me on the wrong side of the road because they'd pass and nearly wipe out people in the crosswalks. Very scary stuff. The speed limit is only 20 mph on campus, but they'd drive like it was the Indy 500! It was still a terrific experience though.
My son told me it was awesome. The guy made a 3 -pointer to win the game!
Chuck Greene
I believe that the DOB should transfer the x-26 from Quill and interline with either the x-27 or x-28 routes. It can be done by a slight readjustment in the current x-26 schedule as follows
1-Eliminate the 6:30AM trip
2-Move up the 6:45AM trip to 6:40AM and use a bus deadheading towards Brooklyn from E.57th/Madison. The 7:00AM trip can be covered the same way.
3-Other trips can be covered by using buses that terminate at E.25th/Madison Ave by operating light via Madison,34thStreet and 7th Ave then in service.
By making these changes the TA can reduce its peak usage buses by 3 as well as 3 drivers. I believe that the x-26 now uses 4 buses and drivers when operating.
Because of the adjustment to cover the first trip you will need an additional bus in Brooklyn to maintain the current schedule.
Also in my opinion the x-37 and x-38 routes numbers should be discontinued. Some routes have two branches and one route number and their is no confusion.
Operations Planning should have one constant designation for a line. Whats going to happen if and when the DOT routes are going to be taken over. Have a route number for a different service. It will drive the passengers crazy.
Sufficent routing information via the bus signs and schedules are sufficent.
Thank You
What is this obsession with running the X26 out of Brooklyn Division? Do the buses not show up when/where they're supposed to, running out of Manhattan Division? Do they not carry passengers to their destinations, running out of Manhattan Division?
Believe me: if it were more cost-effective to run X26 service out of Brooklyn, Staten Island, or both, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SET UP THAT WAY FROM THE GET-GO.
As to the designating of "superexpress" trips on the Brooklyn routes as X27 and X38, what's wrong with doing it that way? It's a marketing tool (and, judging from the ridership numbers I've seen --and no, I don't have them with me -- a damned effective one)...what's so offensive about it that it must be discontinued? As to "driving the passengers crazy" by renumbering routes, it's been done many times (think Staten Island). People get used to the new designations.
David
[As to "driving the passengers crazy" by renumbering routes, it's been done many times (think Staten Island). People get used to the new designations.]
Actually, the renumbering should REDUCE confusion by assigning a distinct number to each service pattern. Instead of wondering which X28 trips make all stops and which use the "bypass," one needs only to look at the number itself.
The most extreme renumbering example occurred some years ago on Staten Island. The Hylan Blvd. express corridor had three route numbers (X9/X11/X13) but 23 different routings. After restructuring, there were only eight routings, each with its own number (X1 through X8). That change proved so user-friendly - and thus popular - that a ninth path was put in about a year later and designated X9.
David,
I believe that the costs of the x-26 are being paid under Federal Funding because of the 9/11 terror attacks.
The reason i will have the x-26 being run by the Brooklyn or Staten Island Division is the same reasons that the x-25 is being run by the Brooklyn Division
1-Better useage of equipment
2-Less dead head mileage being run. If operated by the outer boros buses can be in revenue service at least part of the way to and from their depots and Manhattan. Currently the x-26 is completely dead heading in the reverse direction and this drives up operating costs.
Re:use of differnet designations for the x-27 and x-28.
On most express routes passengers go from point a in the outer boro to point b in the central business district. A passenger will want to know the time that the bus leaves and arrives at their stop. When calling for information on the TA's call in system you will have to know if its a x-27 or x-28. This can lead to confusion.
Keep things as simple as posssible. Thats the rule in business
Thats my opinion
Thank You
Here's anouther thing. Create X26 Trips to Midtown in the AM and going to WFC in the PM.
If the x-26 was to remain as a seperate bus line it will make sense to do so.
Thats my opinion.
Thank You
Just because "somebody else" is paying for it, that doesn't mean NYC Transit isn't under any obligation to provide the service in the most efficient way possible. Besides, "somebody else" won't be paying for it forever.
As to "confusion" between X27 and X37, I think the intelligence of the average express bus passenger is being grossly underestimated here.
David
David,
To say the least the best way to describe how NYC Transit numbers their routes is that its consistent about being inconsistent.
Here are some facts:
LIMITED STOPS-In Staten Island the S40/S90,S44/S94,S46/S96,s48/s98,s51/s81,S61/S91,S62/S92,S74/S84 are all local routes that have limited stop service.
In Manhattan the M1,M2,M4,M5,M15,and M 101 all have limited and local services and the M2 and M15 have limited service 7 days a week.
In the Bronx the BX1,BX2,BX12,BX41 all have limited and local service
In Queens the Q4,Q5,Q27,Q43,Q46,Q83 and Q85 have limited and local service
In Brooklyn the B6,B41,B44 and B46 all have local and limited services.
Yet with the exception of Staten Island each of the above routes do not have seperate route numbers for their limited service
BTW-The S53/S93 was not included because the limited service is not exact as the local services.
EXPRESS ROUTES-The X12/X42,X27/X37 and the X28/X38 have different route numbers for their midtown only services. Yet the X10 and the X17 have different route patterns at various parts of the day and yet they have only 1 route number. The X68 has two differnt routings in the mornings each with their seperate terminal and still has only one route number
DUAL ROUTES-The M27/M50,M96/M106 and BX40/BX42 are basically 1 route with two branches and have two route numbers but yet the B38,B41 and Q46 all have two branches yet still one route number. Yet all of these routes all have one common terminal.
STREET ROUTES-In Manhattan all crosstown routes have the same number as the street they operate on and yet the M60 and M100 which also operate cropsstown does not. Other boros do not have similar routing numbers but yet Staten Island has a great routing pattern
S40'S-NORTH SHORE
S50'S-CROSS TOWN
S60'S-VICTORY BLVD
S70'S-SOUTH SHORE.
So heres the logic according to the TA.
In Staten Island the riders are so dumb that the limited routes have to be specific different from the local routes. Yet the x10 and x17 riders are smart enough to know which bus to use yet the x12/x42 riders are dumb so they need two different route numbers,
In Brooklyn the x27 and x28 riders must be dumb because they need differnt route numbers for the midtown service.
In Manhattan the crosstown riders are dumb so they have to make it easier and some case have two seperate routes because its confusing with the exception of the M14 which now has 4 different patterns.
The M 14 riders must be smarter than the any one else in Manhattan according to the TA.
David, These are the facts.
Any comment
Thank You
SI has the ability to make different # routes as limited since they do not have the same amount of routes as other boros. Thus it is easier --- rather than having S61 LIMITED - just have S91.
For midtown service, it is better to have 2 numbers - for ease of simplicity. The only thing I say changing is the X17 via NJ to X47 since it is Midtown only -- totally different routing than other X17's. The X10's routing is basically the same in the morning, except for the ones that serve West Street -- the only difference is in the afternoon - when they do not travel south of Houston unless on West Street - but a small difference.
The number one rule in business is to make things as easy as possible.
This rule has two folds:
1-You do not make mistakes in ordering something you do not need.
2-You make sure the right product is delivered.
Why make things complicated when they do not have to be
Does it matter that the bus leaving point a and going to point b is one number at 3PM and another number at 5PM. suppose someone does not know the nmber of the route changes.
Does it matter if a bus goes one way or a different way as long as you go from Point A to Point B.
Do you understand the concept now.
Thank You
Hello there fellow Bustalkers,
My friend Ray (whose a fellow bustalker from Long Island), along with myself are putting together designation signs that Suffolk Transit SHOULD have. Ray suggested that the destination signs should look more like the MTA-NYCT style. I agree but the size of the destination signs on the Gilligs and Flxible Metro-Ds are too thin. The Orions can handle that on their destination signs. So, here's an example of what we are presenting:
According to Ray, the S92 goes right by Southampton College. Here is what the sign reads:
Westbound:
S92 - Orient Point
OR
S92 - Greenport
Eastbound:
S92 - East Hampton
BORING!!!!
Here's the way that Ray and I agreed on (MTA-NYCT Style):
Westbound:
S92 - Main Rd
Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
via Main St/Main Rd (Main St turns into Main Rd outside of Riverhead)
S92 - Main Rd
Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
via Old Country Rd (This street runs into Main Rd)
Eastbound:
S92 - East Hampton
via Main St/Main Rd
via Montauk Hwy
Here are some short trips:
Eastbound:
S92 - Main St-Nugent St
Southampton
via Main St/Main Rd
via Sunrise Hwy
S92 - West Main St
Riverhead
via Main St
via Main Rd
S92 - Center Drive North
Suffolk County Offices
via Main St
via Main Rd
Westbound:
S92 - West Main St
Riverhead
via Montauk Hwy
via Sunise Hwy
S92 - Tuckahoe Rd
Southampton College
via Montauk Hwy
via Sunrise Hwy
So, let me know what you guys think? E-mail me at
NYCTMCID4500@aol.com. Also, e-mail Ray at OrionV107@aol.com
[BORING!!!!]
Destination signs aren't supposed to be "interesting" or "exciting." They're supposed to be informative.
That said, your suggested readings go a little too far toward information overload. By the time a would-be rider has read the entire sign, the bus is gone - not a good thing on a 60-plus-minute-headway!
My friend,
I'm not trying to say that destination signs are boring. Yes, I did say "boring" but not like that. I should have explained why we are doing this. Many "bus" tourists (like myself) are not familiar with Suffolk Transit, so I figured that at least the destination sign can at least tell me where the bus goes. It's hard to find a bus schedule unless you are on the bus itself...by then it's too late. Maybe this can help some future bus riders..not just bus tourists. However, people who normally ride the buses know where they are going..LOL! Maybe Suffolk Transit needs some new buses?
Thank you "Gotham Bus Co." for your reply!
Uhhh hello,the bus destination sign DOES say where the bus goes.That's the point of it being there you know where it goes.If it says Orient Point,then that's where it's going.There's no need for it to say anything else like which road's it travel's on mostly.Nobody is gonna care about that.
What type of sign do they use? Unless its like the sign on Command Bus #4961 (<1 second per flash, on a gold sign), the signs would be too long. They, however, would not be too long if TwinVision signs were used.
I remember when:
1) the service was 4 frequencies a day,
2) the first bus from East Bampton and the last bus to East Hampton deadheaed across Shelter Island,
3) the signs simply said "EAST HAMPTON" and "GREENPORT"
4) the buses were either of two SDH fishbowl suburbans with a custom built freight compartment in the rear,
5) they stopped at every auto mechanic or shipper on the way to pick up and drop off shipments.
If you can go back a little farther, I remember when some of the bus service going East and West was provided by LIRR and was called "Road 'n Rail" service. Buses to Greenport left from Huntington LIRR station and buses to Montauk left from Bablyon LIRR station. Greenport bound buses pretty well stuck to Jericho Tpke/Middle Country Road - Rte 25. Montauk buses used Montauk Highway and maybe parts of Sunrise too - Rtes 27A and 27.
The equipment was all Fishbowl and they were SDM types with luggage compartments. I'm pretty sure they picked up and dropped off various shipments at lots of little places along the way. I know I saw them loading stuff all the time at the Huntington station into those storage compartments.
The RR was wrong thinking when they did away with this service. Look at the situation now. We have Sunrise Coach and Hampton Jitney eating what should have been their lunch.
The Road'n'Rail's political purpose was to reduce Riverhead/Greenport train service to one daily franchise run (required by 1836 charter), and keep Greyhound and Trailways from getting franchises to serve the under-served area. Those orange SDM's were immaculate and the Greenport ones were punctual. Additonal seasonal trains were run when 2 buses couldn't handle the load.
Had they left well enough alone in 1973, it would still exist today, and there would be no Sunrise Coach Express, Hampton Jitney, nor Montauk Bus. The Greenport train service now on weekdays, despite 3 frequencies, does not allow for weekday day trips there from the city.
The LIRR thinks only potato farmers and clock-punching 9-5 commuters to Manhattan live east of Ronkokoma.
Beginning in 1973, the LIRR started sabotaging service in many ways:
1) In 1973, redirected the Greenport bus to Babylon, losing all the Happauge-Ridge business, and timed the service so that no buses would lay over in the Greenport freight house. That meant no popular 830am frequency from Greenport, but a middlle of the night deadhead to Greenport.
2) Pulled the operation away from Huntington Coach (which was on their 3rd set of SDM's then only 4 years old), and gave it to the grossly inept Schneck Tours whose drivers were foreever getting lost and missing train connections. The buses were also a random mixed bag of 35' GM PD's (whIch lacked seating capacity), GM Decks, and older Fishbowls.
3) Pulled the operation away again around 1975, and gave it to MSBA, which had new SDH suburban automatics, but made the Greenport bus make a bunch of stops at LIE exits on its way to Babylon to backfill ridership lost along Jericho Tpke. The experiment failed. The buses were based out of the Zahn's Airbase garage.
4) Gradually cut frequencies and replaced with train service that was more infrequent on both the north and South shores until it was entirely gone by 1983.
I've got a photo of bus 368 of Huntington Coach in RxR service from Steve Hoskins in CA..
Email if you want a copy.
Hehehe, I even have a Corgi SDH5302 painted up in LIRR Road'n'Rail colors!!!!
Some of your readings look kind of long (may need abriviated) for a single line only sign. The only thing I don't care for is the repeated use of the word via. It's just a personal pet peeve, but, it annoys me. LOL
Instead of;
S92 - Main Rd
Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
via Old Country Rd
I would use;
S92 - Main Rd
to Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
& Old Country Rd
For a while, PAT was throwing a whole lot of information into their signs. For instance, the 11A used to have maybe 5 or 6 destination signs tops. Now, each different variation has it's own sign and there are almost 20 of them.
Instead of;
11A McKNIGHT
NORTH PARK
Now we've got;
11A McKNIGHT
TO NORTH PARK
VIA McKNIGHT VLG
MALLS
KANE CENTER &
PASSAVANT
In a Luminator MAX bus, this displays in 3 readings, however, in the Orion V's with the one line at a time signs, this sign has 6 readings. From a sign fan, I like the long readings as you can do some fun things with the sign software and whatnot, but as a rider I do recognize that the less info on the sign, the less confusion there will be.
I've seen only one 6-line NYCT reading:
M4 LIMITED
M4 FT WASHINGTON
M4 193 ST
M4 LIMITED
M4 via MADISON
M4 via BWAY
This sign is so long that the "LIMITED" phase has to show up twice. (While the corresponding southbound reading is probably just as long, I haven't seen it.)
My earlier criticism of long readings is quite appropriate here: By the time a would-be rider sees HOW the bus is traveling, he/she has forgotten WHERE the bus is going - which won't matter anyway because the bus will have left already.
Hello my friends,
Never mind about this. I thought it was a reasonable idea but with this much criticism, We won't do it. I'll go back to me posting past observations..starting later today.
Thank you to all of your comments!
Hello there fellow Bustalkers,
My friend (whose a fellow bustalker from Long Island), along with myself are putting together designation signs that Suffolk Transit SHOULD have. He suggested that the destination signs should look more like the MTA-NYCT style. I agree but the size of the destination signs on the Gilligs and Flxible Metro-Ds are too thin. The Orions can handle that on their destination signs. So, here's an example of what we are presenting:
According to my friend, the S92 goes right by Southampton College. Here is what the sign reads:
Westbound:
S92 - Orient Point
OR
S92 - Greenport
Eastbound:
S92 - East Hampton
BORING!!!!
Here's the way that my friend and I agreed on (MTA-NYCT Style):
Westbound:
S92 - Main Rd
Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
via Main St/Main Rd (Main St turns into Main Rd outside of Riverhead)
S92 - Main Rd
Orient Point
via Montauk Hwy
via Old Country Rd (This street runs into Main Rd)
Eastbound:
S92 - East Hampton
via Main St/Main Rd
via Montauk Hwy
Here are some short trips:
Eastbound:
S92 - Main St-Nugent St
Southampton
via Main St/Main Rd
via Sunrise Hwy
S92 - West Main St
Riverhead
via Main St
via Main Rd
S92 - Center Drive North
Suffolk County Offices
via Main St
via Main Rd
Westbound:
S92 - West Main St
Riverhead
via Montauk Hwy
via Sunise Hwy
S92 - Tuckahoe Rd
Southampton College
via Montauk Hwy
via Sunrise Hwy
So, let me know what you guys think? E-mail me at
NYCTMCID4500@aol.com. I'll share the info with my friend!
Hi --
I am new here. I post infrequently over on Sub Talk, and I occasionally read this board, but I am not a bus expert, beyond being a rider.
I have put together a photographic virtual tour about the sights you can see when taking the M4 from the Cloisters all the way downtown. In my photos, I attempt to concentrate on architecture of the buildings the bus passes, as well as try to capture the general look and feel of each neighborhood through which the bus passes.
You bus mavens may enjoy looking at my tour. You can check it out at:
http://www.brorson.com/M4Bus/
If you find any dead links or have other suggestions/corrections, please let me know.
Enjoy!
Stuart
Thanks for the site. It was very enjoyable and well done. Do you plan on doing other Manhattan bus lines?
Thanks for the compliment. As for doing other bus lines, ummmm, I hadn't thought webifying about other Manhattan bus tours 'cause I generally only take the M4. But you've got a good idea there. I'll think about it . . . . .
DO IT!!!!!!! DO IT TO IT!!!!!!!
Seriously, great job. I shall FINALLY becoming to NYC this summer thanks to a huge infusion of money and the M4 is definately on my to do list.
Hey when you take the M4 and your going uptown and pass by Broadway and 157St,when the bus passes by the street just before the bus stop,you'll see a tall 8 story building that looks like it was built around the 1900's.That's where I live.
Please do the M5 or the M18 (between 127 and 145 Street, it looks somewhat picturesque with its brownstone buildings.) That route is great looking between Columbia University and West 72 Street. Of all of the Manhattan depots, MV seems to have the best picturesque routes. They also have some of the best older buses (albeit 3474 is a little slow). The only other routes that can compare are in Staten Island. I would suggest the S74 (along Arthur Kill Road) and the S78 (Hylan Boulevard).
The S78 and S74 cannot beat the S61. The S61 takes a quite scenic route after it's turn off of Victory Blvd. to the SI Mall. A long with that you get the comfortable 1xx busses.(Express
Bus Type Seats)
If you can't do all of M5, how about the portion on Riverside Drive?
Michael
Washington, DC
I have ridden that section once. It is extremely great looking. The M3 is also good-looking somewhat with its old buildings through the 130s and 140s, although that area does not appear nearly as well kept. Also, I had the misfortune of going through there on 3474 (still active after 19 years, including a brief stop in storage).
Nice pic in the Washington Heights section of the neighborhood where I live. If you see,that first street after the bank,if you make a right and go down that hill,you'll see an 8 story brown colored building,that's where I live.
I applaud your efforts. I have my own dreams of doing a transit site, similar in the format you do. It's amazing how you did. Not too simple, but not to complex.
Very nice photos. Excellent job!
You are bringing back some memories from 50+ years ago. I am originally from the neighborhood of Riverside Drive in the low 100s, and had family who remained in the area until the mid-1970s. I have vivid memories of the M4 and M5 routes in the Fifth Ave. Coach and early MABSTOA days. I can recall the last Queen Mary doubledecks on the M5, the 4507s on the M4 with the elaborate two tone green and yellow paint scheme, the 5104s on the M5 with gree and tan paint - and of the course the slogan "Go the Motor Coach Way" above the windows.
Very nice pictures. I believe you've been officially "hired" by BusTalk to submit virtual tours for all bus lines across the country.
Good luck!
;-)
Hey Thanks!
It'll only take me . . . . . oh . . . . fifty or sixty years to do all bus lines across the country.
But that raises a question: How long would it take to ride all NYC bus lines from end to end?
Supposing that the average run is 1 hour (is it?), we can get the number by multiplying by the number of lines. So -- how many bus lines are there in NYC?
That's NOT a good way to do the bus. Statistically speaking, it should be as follows, assuming in Manhattan, number of bus northbound and southbound routes times average running time 90 minutess + number of crosstown routes times average running time 30 minutes) and divide the total time (in minutes) by the number of routes.
Michael
Washington, DC
That's fine for Manhattan, but then the questions are:
1. How many X-town routes are there?
2. How many NS routes are there?
3. How to deal with the routes outside of Manhattan? How many are there and what is the average end-to-end time?
Crosstown routes in Manhattan
M21, 22, 8, 14, 23, 16 and 34, 42,50, 57, 66, 72, 86, 96, 106, 116
These routes's purpose is soley to get across town on the same street and turn around. Other routes, go across town or partly across town to continue their trip on a different street, e.g. M104 travels across 42nd street only to get to 8th Avenue.
I don't want to comment about the other boroughs because I don't know them as well as Manhattan.
Michael
Great job.
May i express my thanks for the ride.
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I know that Vermont has MC-12 since they're a GLI company, but today I saw (for the second time) a MC-12 that I believe came from Vermont. Today while driving along Fenton Street in Silver Spring a MC-12 was coming along and I noticed that it didn't have the normal operator nameplate on the front of the bus which made it look sort of naked. Once the bus got closer I saw that it's number was in the 85XXX series (I think 85601). Other than that it was in the regular Greyhound colors and look like any other MC-12 at Greyhound.
Another observation is that I saw WMATA's Metro-D #9712 from Montgomery Division on the C2 route and it's regular mirrors have been replaced with the newer type found on WMATA's newer buses (C40LF, Neoplan AN-460) and the NABI artics.
Wayne
I have a 1966 MABSTOA book of rollsign readings. I can figure out where most of the destinations but one has me stumped. In the Bronx, routes 1,2,3, went to Shorehaven. Where is Shorehaven?
Michael
Washington, DC
Shorehaven is the name of a long-gone summer beach and pool club that was located in the Classon Point neighborhood at the very end of Sound View Avenue. During the summer MABSTOA (and presumably, Surface Transit in earlier years) ran special bus services to Shorehaven from many neighborhoods in the Bronx. Don't know the details of the routings.
The name "Shorehaven" was revived around 1990 as a townhouse development on the site of the former beach club. The private streets within it have names like Surf Avenue and Neptune Drive; one name that should have been used is "Flight Path Alley," since LaGuardia Airport is right across the water.
To bring this back "on topic": When the new Shorehaven opened, the developer wanted Bx27 and Bx39 buses to terminate inside the property. However, Transit didn't want to let Shorehaven's private security officers screen the passengers (that would smack of chartering), so the buses ended up turning around in the street outside the gate.
What's strange is that the MABSTOA rollsign listing book shows routes 1,2,3 going to Shorehaven but no destination going the other way. I guess the bus drivers were lemmings and drove their buses into the East River. LOL
Michael
Washington, DC
Yes, I remember it was on the roll signs of the old West Farms Depot.
Wayne
Im not making it up, i did see it. Orion VII #7566, was running on the B70(run 005) then went over to the B77 route. I saw it on 10th Street and 5th Avenue heading back to the garage around 1:00p.m. on friday 3/21/03. It's the first of many. Keep an eye out for him!!
Now your area should get relief once more of these buses have been prepped for service! Maybe the end has come for at least the 4700s at UP that have been dying left and right. (One hand-me down you would love is 4410. That is one speedy bus, even at age 17.)
Sweet! FP might finally end it's 4 year drought. I can't wait to see the 3997's death. We truly deserve newer buses. I just got off the 9158, and after reading this I feel even better.
Q39- RTS #2815
Q55- RTS #9158(Thank you Big Al)
Here's some more tidbits that should make you feel even better concerning Fresh Pond's buses for Sunday, 3/23. As I make this post, there are only 3 4000 series buses on the road in all of Fresh Pond! (No I didn't jot which one's.) Overall, for my 4pm - 12am shift, I only dispatched 4 4000's, all 46 and 4700's. The entire day, (in 24 hours) only roughly 20 4000's hit the road period!!! Only 2 3900's were on the road, 1 of which pulled in around 6pm for the rest of the day. The last 39 pulled in about 10:30pm. Driving to and from work and on my meal, I saw only Novas. So, to sum it all up, I've given you guys nothin' to cry about concerning the Fresh Pond buses on Sunday and for the entire week after 8pm everyday, the Nova's and the 8000's outnumbered the 4000's by a ratio of 3:1, (which probably explains why I haven't heard any Fresh Pond complaints on this board lately.)
BIG AL
Some more Fresh Pond Stats as of 12am 3/25/03
Total number of Fresh Pond Novas on the road: 28
Total number of Fresh Pond 8000s on the road: 04
Total number of Fresh Pond 4000s on the road: 08
Total number of Fresh Pond buses on the road: 40
Chances of riding a F/P 4000 as of midnight: 20%
Chances of riding a F/P Nova as of midnight: 70%
Chances of riding a F/P 8000 as of midnight: 10%
If anybody has a problem with these type of stats, let me know so we can have a 1 on 1 discussion.
BIG AL
It's my birthday, send Ridgewood a little something to celebrate. No need to keep my fellow 18 year olds holed up in the house. Let them go wild in the streets.
So How many Orion VII are actually running now?
I took a trip over to JG today. After searching for the M-7 on the LIRR and came up unsuccessful, I was looking to get to the B37. Once I came out, I saw 7000 and 4217 on the B41. Once I found where I was, I went over to the B37 Line and rode bus 877. At 9 St, I saw 7566 operating on the B77. I'll get back to that later. Anyways I went to 42 St where I got off 877 and walked up to 5th Ave and walked to the depot. I had to make a stop over at 4th Ave at 1 of the NYPD HQ to be exact. No I didn't do anything wrong. I took the NYPD Test back in June-passed it and missed the 2 physicals so I had to be reinstated to take a future test. After that was completed, I walked to 5th Ave and 39 St where I then walked to JG Depot. Saw 8686 on the lift. Along 36 St, I saw some New Flyers Orions and RTS Rolling in and out of the depot. TO my shock, I saw 4704 pull out. Now I thought this bus went over to FP with the others? I guess I was wrong. Anyways 4648 592 942 603 8566 8541 were among the few that I saw pull in and out of the depot.
After the short walk to the depot, I went back up to 5th Ave where I took B63 8544. Now remember I told you I saw 7566 on the B77? Well I got off 8544 at 10 St and 7566 was stuck behind an oil truck. Once it pulled into the stop, I took about 5 pics of the bus. Bad news was that it was going back to JG-OOS. I wish I could've rode it. Instead 603 pulls up. So I boarded to Smith and 9 St where I took the F train to Ave U. 9324 is in the B3 Stop-so I hopped on it. Now whoever said to assign these coaches onto that line is mentally insane. This bus was mobbed. Nobody could get in and out of the bus. And I saw about 4 others on that line alone: 9307 9323 9330 9333 to be exact. Finally squeezed off at Ocean Ave where 9099 was on 9324's bumper. I crossed over and took 8024 on the B49-NOT REPOWERED. Slow bus. Hopped off at Ave Y and took the B36. Saw 4767-sitting at the light but going in the opposite direction. Sounded pretty good. Rode 9090 to the Q Train Station where I boarded an R40M Express. I'll leave that subject for SubTalk.
After departing the 7 train, when I got back to Queens, I placed my pics into the developer and boarded 276 on the Q32 to take me home.
Whew Long day!!!
#877 B37
#8544 B63
#603 B77
#9324 B3
#8024 B49
#9090 B36
#276 Q32
those 9300's are assigned to the B1,B3,B4,B36(occasionally),B74 and the F Shuttle. I hope they get changed to hard seaters soon.
I saw it Monday!
If 7566 is already in JG, then where is 7560?
I rode #7566 on the B77 yesterday...Run 007...and that bus was screeching after every stop...like the Orion Vs up here in MCH land...
Carlton
Transit Is My Drug
A friend of mine has recently started up his own transit forum based on bus and rail transits in both Canada and the U.S. If anyone is interested in it, you may go to www.awesysnet.ca/forums and sign up. This new forum is intended in no way to compete with BusTalk or any other existing Transit Forums.
Today i Saw a up 1996 Nova i could get the number its was a 90xx 4 sure it was coasting at about 5 mph with a MAT Pick up Behind it This the 2nd one to Breakdown down to 32 LOcal Novas
#9099 - B6
#9110 - B6
im not exactly sure but this appeared to be the bus number. anyway i saw it parked in the lot of the hilton garden inn at the raritan center. the bus was there all day as i saw it at 1pm and again at 9pm. my wife said that driver has some long brake. im assuming it was in delivery process from st cloud minnesota and for some reason driver was spending the night at this hotel. any thoughts?
#5546 is now in service, I spotted this bus on the M102 a few nights ago.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
then it must have been 5548. my eyesight isnt what it used to be. i was on nj 514. i am positive of the first three numbers though.
I would like to know where do I fill an application of employment for MTA NYC buses? Thank you!
Ronnie
Try checking their WEBSITE
Peace,
ANDEE
Check out their website or go to 370 Jay St and pick up an application at the Travel Info Center if they have any there.
I think you can also pick up an application at 12 or 18 Washington St in Lower Manhattan.
Most bus routes have only 1 borough designation in the route number, even if it operates between two boroughs. For example, Q32 operates between Queens and Manhattan. Q44 operates between Queens and the Bronx.
1) How is it decided which borough to include in the route number, i.e. why is it Q32 and NOT M32. Why is it Q44 and NOT BX44.
2) I noticed only one exception to the rule. QBX1 which has BOTH boroughs in the route number. What's so special about QBX1 to warrant both boroughs in the route number?
Michael
Washington, DC
Back in the 80's,the Q32 was called the M32 but they decided to change it.It's real simple,the routing in Queens for both the Q32 and Q44 is longer than the routing in the Bronx(44) and Manhattan(32) that's why they're the Q32 and Q44 and not M32 and Bx44.Another example is the S53 and S79 which end and originate from Bay Ridge Brooklyn. Since they only make 3 stops in Brooklyn before going over the Verazano Bridge into SI and run longer in SI,that's why there's an S before the number instead of B(B53,B79). As for the QBx1,since there is already a Q1 and Bx1,the DOT or QSC,whoever is in charge of creating bus route numbers,decided to combing the two brough's and make it the QBX1.
I believe that Queens Transit Corporation which was one of the companies that make up the current Queens Surfice Corporation had plans to expand its prescene in the Bronx and did indeed apply for additional franchises from NYC.
However the TA objected and the plans were filed away in the circular file(the garbage can)
Thank You
Interestingly enough, two of the renumbered routes, the former B55 and B58 (now Q55, Q58) operate ENTIRELY in Queens. They come "thisclose" to the border (the center line of Wyckoff Avenue) but doesn't cross it.
In other words, it's theoretically possible for a bus operator to spend his/her entire career in the Brooklyn Division and NOT drive in Brooklyn.
This situation occurs because each is an old BMT trolley route that became part of the TA's Brooklyn Bus Division.
I may be wrong but when the B/Q55 was a trolley it may have been through routed with the B54's trolley ancestor all the way into downtown Brooklyn.
In other words, it's theoretically possible for a bus operator to spend his/her entire career in the Brooklyn Division and NOT drive in Brooklyn.
Three of the Bronx Division depots are physically located in Manhattan. Two of them house major Manhattan-only routes. (Or are Union Square and Grand Central in the Bronx?)
Soon, though, West Farms, or is it Coliseum Depot, will open, causing AMS to close unless the TA takes over the NYBS routes.
For all those who loved my web site on buses(thanks for all the support-by the way)-wait till you see page 2-we continue with CAT and add Suffolk Transit(currently waited for the film to develop to see what i can put up there). In the next few weeks, pictures from PACE,CTA and LIBUS, as well as some surprises(remember the Orion II that MSBA had, you will soon)-stay tuned. As soon as page 2 is up-ill let you all know.
I may be travelling to Virginia Beach in the next few weeks and heard they have Flxible Metros in service. Has anyone seen them, and what vintage were they? I heard they were 1989s. Since they are an affluent travel community, I would imagine they retire buses the day they reach age 12, but may be wrong. I plan to ride the bus while I am there, so I figure one of two things will happen:
A) Much to my delight, they will still have Flxibles.
B) Like virtually every city in Virginia, I will be greeted by a fleet of late-model Gilligs.
At any rate, it will be good to get out of town and enjoy some time away for a change. East coast BusTalkers, let me know if you have any info on buses there.
-F.
The Agency here is called Hampton Roads Transit. They were formed after the merger of Tidewater Regional Transit around 1999-2000(Norfolk, Va. Beach, Chesapeake, Portsmouth) and PennTran (Hampton, Newport News/Williamsburg). There is a big variety of buses here. From the TRT side there are 1989 Flxibles (called the 700's from bus #'s701-750? and also some 1993 NABI's (the 900's bus 901-950) PennTran ran a mix of older Flxibles, RTS, and Gilligs...After the merger, HRT bought more Gilligs and a few Low-Floor Gilligs as well to upgrade the old PennTran Fleet and a newer model I rarely seen.
NABI did not exist in 1993. Even if, no buses from NABI's predecessor are present in the Hampton Roads area. PenTran did purchase some 1993 and 94 Orion Vs, though. That's probably what is being refered to here.
It was BIA, not NABI for TRT...I get them confused...I do not know a whole lot about PennTran's fleet.
Ah I didn't know there had been a merger. Is there any service between Norfolk and the peninsula via the Hampton Roads Bridge/Tunnel?
It's called Route 61 Crossroads and goes between Pembroke Mall along 264 to 64 to Norfolk (Little Creek Rd/Chesapeake Blvd - Ward's Corner) along 64 to Downtown Hampton, Along 664 to Downtown Newport News/Northrop-Grumman Newport News back on 664 to Chesaapeake Square Mall. This route is run mostly w/Gillig Low-Floors (HRT 1200's)
OK thanks. I was a student at Hampton University (back then called Hampton Institute) during the 1975-76 school year, so I had occasion to ride then-PenTran buses. Actually only the "Phoebus" route (they didnt have numbers for the routes back then) between the north entrance of HI and downtown Hampton or out to the Coliseum Mall.
Back then the fleet consisted of 50s-vintage Old Looks (100 series)
and mid-60s Flxible New Looks (this was my first experience w/ Flxibles equipped with Cummins engines). The Old Looks were painted in the white over red c/s which probably belonged to PenTran's predecessor (Hampton City Lines?). Some of the Flxibles wore this c/s, while a few were in the PenTran c/s which I think included white, gold and blue. About a week before I left, the 600-series Flxible New Looks entered service, I got to ride one before departing.
I never really got to see the buses on the Norfolk side (I guess that was called Tidewater Transit or something like that. Going home for Spring Break, I had to catch a Greyhound bus in Norfolk instead of Hampton for some reason, so I took a cab to the Norfolk Greyhound Station (across from the Scope arena, is that still standing?) and I think I saw a Fishbowl or two.
Very cool. The Cummins-powered Flxibles were actually 1967-69 models; how were they as far as ride quality and sound? Were they choppy or smooth, and was there a huge difference from the normal Detroit Diesel 71-series in those? And how did you like the 600s?
Also, we have one of the then-new 600 series Flxibles restored at our museum...coach 621, to be exact.
-F.
You know--I never rode one of the 60s Flxibles :(
At that time they weren't assigned to the Phoebus route,
I mostly saw them on the Buckroe route (via Kecoughtan (sp?) Rd.
The Phoebus route back then was 100% Old Look, at least what I saw.
I would later experience Cummins-equipped Flxibles in Los Angeles
when I moved there later in 1976.
The main thing I liked about the 600s is that they were air-conditioned, which the 100s and 200s weren't. I only
rode the one time, for all of 5 minutes from the HI entrance
to downtown Hampton, basically just over the Queen St
bridge onto Armistead Av (or was it Pembroke Av? (Ended up walking back to campus)
Incidentally, one Friday night I was bored out of my mind
so I went for a walk into town, ended up at the old bus yard
at 2 AM! This yard had no fence, so I was able to walk right
into the garage with all the buses there. I dont want to think
of what might have happened if a cop had passed by while I
was there. :P
Those Flxibles must have been something else to ride with the A/C; were they the first air-equipped transits in Hampton? We got our Flxible New Looks here in Roanoke one month after the PenTran order, and ours were the first air-conditioned transits ever operated in our area. Meanwhile, TAs in New York, D.C., and elsewhere had air- conditioned coaches in the 1950s and 60s.
In fact, Richmond even had A/C on some of their Old Looks...big rocket-looking things on the back. I even have an old B/W film from 1957 showing their A/C demo.
-F.
The Scope is still there after all these years...ODU recently opened a new Convocation Center on Hampton Blvd late last year. Back then, TRT had some Flxible fishbowls as well and even some Grumman 870's when I first got to Norfolk in late 1991.
An interesting note: I saw one of TRT's former Flxibles at Martinsville Speedway two years ago when I attended my first NASCAR race. It was painted black and red with most of the windows sheetmetaled over (ugh) and a no. "3" on the rear as a tribute to Dale Earnhardt, plus a retrofit set of Alcoa wheels. The inside was very well done like a brand new motor home; unfortunately, I didn't get to see a lot of it as some loudmouthed fat lady inside ran me off, even though the owner of the bus granted me permission to look. What a bad scene that was.
-F.
Also the year I was there was the last year of the ABA and the Virginia Squires, who split their home games between the Scope and the Hampton Coliseum (though they may have played a handful of games in Richmond).
Wow...so Va. Beach merged with Pentran? Good to know Flxies are still running around there. What routes will I find them on?
As an added note, we restored Flxible New Look no. 621 to original Pentran colors...you may see it at www.commonwealthcoach.com. Thanks for the info!
-F.
The Flxibles are all over the place..You'll find them on most routes except for the Granby and the other high profile routes and TRT Flxibles are also on the Penninsula and PenTran Gilligs on Southside. The last of the RTS's were retired last year since I don't see them anymore.
So the odds are great that they will be running in the Va. Beach area?
-F.
5523, 5549 and 5551
Has arrived at the Jersey City New Flyer Satelitte Facility. Photos of 5523 and 5551 should be popping up below.....
Ms. 5551
Ms. 5523
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Will these be assigned to 126th for the M15, or to 100th for the M101/102/103?
where exactly is this facility in jersey city. i am very familiar with that city. they used to be delivered to atlantic diesel in lodi. see my prior post about artic at the hilton garden inn off rt 514.
The facility is on Garfield ave not to far from the Nj turnpike entrance.
T.B.
What is on the front of the buses? Is that plastic wrap or something? Are buses really delivered in plastic wrap?
>What is on the front of the buses? Is that plastic wrap or
>something? Are buses really delivered in plastic wrap?
It looks like plastic wrap to me... perhaps so that they don't get dirty? *shrug* Our LFS's were delivered with the Disney Transport logo covered up, but that was about it. The rest of the bus was filthy from the salt used on snowy roads. Of course, Im guessing in our case, they covered up the Disney logo to keep people from talking. *shrug*
-Tyler-
Cars and buses ususally have a plastic film to prevent scatching.
take a ride over to you local dealer and take a look at the cars on the back of the lot
Most new cars are delivered with a film all over them to protect the finish during transportation. those car carrier guys don't exactly treat them with the greatest care. i worked at a car dealership some time ago. the public never saw this film close up b/c the cars would go direct to the prep department for a quick shine and removal of this film, install the floor mats and license plate frame before being displayed in the showroom or the lot.
Speaking of new buses and moving all around...
A friend told me that hyrbrids are coming to Queens Village. Any truth to that?
Big Truth!!!!!!
60 of the Orion 07.501 Hybrids will be gracing the doors of Queens Village later on this year, and 65 of the same model will be at Mother Clara Hale.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Hello Trevor Logan,
Hopefully QV will get there buses by the end of the year but with the TA, who knows. Nice pics of the D60HF buses...they look real good from here!!!
They are going to be Orion 07.501s, not 06.501s...
#6365 was on the Bx19 for 120 days, that was the pilot bus for the rest of the order of those buses, the 07.501s.
If they are 06.501s that would Make them 40 Foot Orion 6 models for which those are #6350-6359.
These are the new 40 Foot Orion 7 models making for the model number 07.501. 07.502 is the 35 footer and 07.503 is the 30 footer.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
PAge 2 is up-for all those who waited-here you go. includes some great shots. page 3 will include some CTA and PACE routes-ge ready for the MSBA-LIBUS pictures-they look fantastic. enjoy.
B1-#9312-NOVABUS
B64-#9100-NOVABUS
http://members.aol.com/pingu45/busses.html
Other Bustalkers have been mentioning Flxibles in recent posts and it made me think of when I was riding in a 30 footer on the 7A route. In top gear at maximum rpms, the speedometer indicated 45. I find that hard to believe since it's such a small bus. I was thinking that maybe these buses have a deep axle ratio like a 4:88 coupled with a one to one top gear ratio, which would explain the engine being at the redline.
Okay, I understand a deep axle ratio can hurt the top end cause the engine is staying within its power band unless there is a 0.88:1 or higher overdrive ratio to slow it down. Since there is none, why so slow? But then again, since they're used in local service, speed may not be an issue. But listen to this. I used to ride in trucks with a Allison five speed with a even deeper axle ratio for plowing snow and the top end was anywhere from 40-45 mph. Maybe the GVWR plays a part in this. I don't know.
If the bus had an Allison HT745 transmisson, perhaps the driver was locking the selector into a lower gear -- thus keeping speed down.
I used to drive Gilligs that had the HT745...if you wre to put the tranny selector in "D" (Drive), the thing had a propensity to drop to the highest gear whenever you let off the throttle -- and if you re-applied it, it would downshift back to 2nd or 3rd, wherever the speed of the bus called for. It was quite annoying. So, what I'd do, was to put the selector in "3" -- this kept the transmission from bucking back and forth with throttle release/application, but also limited the top speed to about 47-48 MPH.
I was trained to drive MC-7/8/9's with the automatics by shifting them manually -- that's the way Greyhound used to train their drivers too. Made for a much smoother ride for the passengers by manually shifting the HT745's.
Can anyone explain the sudden appearence of the following buses here in South Jersery: 3001, 3002, 3004, and 3202? [I figuure 3003 is here too but I haven`t seen it yet] Are they additional buses, or are they displacing other classes of buses (like the RTS, or the Metro-D's)? They stick out like sore thumbs, they do not have bike racks[like all transit and suburban buses in South Jersey], and in the case of 3202, it has ads for the HBLRT on the driver's side. I need an explaination.
Their apperance probably has something to do with Greenville getting Metro-D suburbans.
I am sorry to repeat my request
Does anyone have or can anyone assist me in getting routing descriptions for all LI Bus Routes
And please do not write me to tell me you CANT assist or WONT assist,I need to update my material and I will pay for this material and your time where applicable
THanks for your cooperation
Steve
914 329 7489
What's the number range of those buses? Newton Ave has 3700, 3704-3725. What will be the number range of these old "B" junkers coming down south?
I hope that NJT gets their shit together and get those new buses NOW! The "B"s are showing their age, and sounding like it too. Now I wouldn't mind if they sent down some 2-door "D" buses, we only have 3 at Newton Ave, 1869, 70, and 71.
Im trying to get a job in Suffolk Transit-either as a driver or behind the scenes. Id like to work for either Inter-County Coach or E.B.T. Inc since im able to get to those garages. I tried the Suffolk Web site but havent heard anything. Is Suffolk hiring at those garages or do i have to travel to happauge to get a job..any help would be appreciated.
Not sure if they do it the way they used to, but Suffolk Transit is NOT one operation. As far as the public sees, it appears to be though. Each area has its own private company operating the buses, which are bought by the County of Suffolk.
In Bay Shroe, it used to be Suffolk Transportation Services, at 15 East Moffit Blvd. and Brentwood Road (north east side of the LIRR crossing). In Babylon, it was Inter-County Motor Coach, they were on the east side of Deer Park Avenue, just south of the LIRR viaduct.
Not sure where the other companies were, but among some of the other contract operators were Educational Bus Service (Copiague), Louis A. Fuoco (East Patchogue), Sunrise Coaches (Greenport), and an operator in East Northport (whose name slips my mind at the moment). Some of these companies might even be gone nowadays; the names I'm quoting come from a 1987 production list from Gillig...who delivered the buses to the specific comapnies.
Hope this info helps -- perhaps you could look up some of the above specific companies and give them a call and ask what the situation is.
In addition to the contractors mentioned, I also remember seeing county-owned buses operated by Coram Bus Service ("CBS") Lines, Sunrise Coaches, and Hampton Jitney.
Anything "behind-the-scenes" (route planning, scheduling, etc.) would probably be done by the Suffolk County Department of Public Works, and thus could well require a patronage connection.
The East Northport operator you're thinking of is Alert Coach/Bauman Buses/Acme Bus. They had a yard in Amityville which was probably sold to a developer and a yard on Vet's Highway in Bohemia. I think they sold off their mini-van operation to Hudson General and concentrate on school buses and some OTR coaches for charter and LIRR work.
They never stored any transits in East Northport. The yard is just west of the end of the LIRR Northport station (north side).
Note to Caine824 - Don't know if any County Sub-Contractor hires drivers specifically for transits or uses it as a promotion from within. Its worth a couple of telephone calls to find out.
Yeah, that was the name -- Alert Coach. Somehow I just could NOT remember it!! Thanks!!
The only two actual yards I knew of were Inter County's in Babylon and Suffolk's in Bay Shore. The rest of the names I only knew from Gillig production lists.
Hello fellow BusTalkers,
I'm looking at the Ohio Museum of Transportation and I was curious when did the model TDH-5303 switch over to the "AC" units?
Okay, for example ex-NYCTA/MaBSTOA buses #1-190, #501-805, #1001-1130, #2000-2175, #3301-3555, #3600-3950, #5200-5525 and #6400-6999 all look the same (forest green from the way I remembered it and all had NO A/C! If these buses did have A/C, then I forgot...sorry).
Then, ex-NYCTA/MABSTOA buses #8001-8202 and #8301-8780 have the "fan" on top and those are TDH-5303s also and had AC which was a HUGE relief!
So, again my question to you is this...when did the switch over occur, was it 1966?
Thank you my friends for your upcoming responses!
Yes it was made in 1966. Buses 8001 to 8202(TA) and 8301 to 8780(MABSTOA) buses were the first mass produced buses purchased with A/C.
Thank You
Interestingly, 1966/67 is also about the time the private bus operators in Queens decided to purchase air conditioned vehicles too. I believe at least some of the privates (Green Bus and Jamaica Bus; perhaps Triboro also, but not Queens & Steinway Transit) beat the MTA/NYCTA & MABSTOA to the punch by about 6 months in receiving the first air conditioned buses.
As an earlier thread mentioned, Fifth Avenue Coach had five air-conditioned 5301's that were renumbered into the 3200's in the MABSTOA fleet. I have a feeling those air conditioners may not have been working by 1966/67, but really don't remember for sure.
One of the earliest operators of air conditioned buses in the NYC suburbs was Schenck Transportation, which had three 5301's (or 5302's) numbered 600-602.
Actually there were ten MABSTOA 5301s that had A/C (5 from 5th Ave. Coach, 5 from Surface Transit) that went into MABSTOA's fleet as #3211-3220. Aside from the A/C they were identical to the 110 5301s MABSTOA inherited from 5th Ave. and Surface that ran most of their careers out of Kingsbridge Depot on Bronx routes - usually BX 1/2 (Concourse), BX19 (207th Xtown; now part of BX12), BX38 University Ave. (now BX3), and BX41 (Webster/White Plains).
The first air conditioned 5303's in NYC were in late 1966 -- the 8000 series, I believe.
As for the rest of the world's 5303's, some were air conditioned, some weren't, right from the start of production. In fact, the very first TDH5301's that went to Washington, DC were air conditioned.
As for actually designating an air conditioned bus in the production lists, that started with the 5305/5306 series (and suburban 5303's).
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!!! I'm 20 years old today!woohoo!....it just sucks I gotta stay here at home all day long instead of being outside.
>.<
Happy and Healthy Wishes for the day.
May you have many more !!!!
Be grateful that you here and not fighting overseas in the war.
Many more happy returns !!!
May God bless and watch all of our brave soldiers !!!!
Yeah good thing I am here and not oversea's,cause no matter what,I wouldn't go.I prefer to fight for justice my own way.
Happy birthday....hope you have many more healthy and happy years.
Happy Birthday! My birthday is coming up this Monday, March 31st, and I will be 27 years old. Just wish I was married by now!
Q, maybe you should apply for the job V put in for. I would think during breaks in the crowds it could be used as a babe magnet.
Don't worry,my brother is 32 and he still isn't married yet either so it isn't all that bad.
My 20th birthday already happened more than a week ago. That's when I took the (L) Shuttle.
21 is the age to be!!! You'll officially be legal to drink.
Happy Birthday my friend!!!
#5232 B47
Awesome. Happy birthday. Mine is today as well.
0.0 Your kidding!? Holy mother earth,I share a birthday with a fellow bustalker!Anyone else with a birthday today too?
Congratulations!
That's all I can really say... ^_^;;
This is what i heard from a driver on the b68-not sure if truth or fiction-but i know i'll find out from here if it is.
1-More Orion VII due at JG in April-at least 30. Currently, drivers are being tested on #7566 to get them ready for the arrival of the Orion VII.
2-JG will recieve the B45 and B48 lines come the system pick. in return, they will lose the b8 route(though it doesnt make any sense to run the b45 out of JG-maybe its easier to do the relief in downtown brooklyn).
3-B68 runs got cut. The new pick begins 4/13/03. The B68 will only have 46 runs during weekdays. This run list does not include the extra pieces covered by Ulmer Park between Brighton beach Station and Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue.
Hope this helps.
B1-#7532-REMAN
B8-#8566-TMC
Is the 7560 over there also. If so why not test on that bus?
AMI
Did not see 7560 at the depot. Perhaps on the road at JG or elsewhere.
#7566 B77
1. Delivery is underway. They'll get here when they get here.
2. Drivers don't decide what routes run out of which depots. The System Pick is in September, which is some months away. A lot can happen between now and the time the Pick has to be distributed.
3. I'd have to check, but offhand I don't recall any major differences between the Winter and Spring B68 weekday schedules.
David
True on all three. However, this may be coming out from the head of the depot. Could he be admitting that the B8 experience was the B4 experience of the late 1990s, or are JG and ENY just doing a route swap, the B8 for the B45?
The head of the depot doesn't decide which routes run out of which depots, either.
David
David,
It is possible they can run a system pick for the summer and make the moves then and not wait for September
Thank You
this is true-any route changes im hearing with JG is comning from JG drivers. The biggest complaint is the extra runs that Ulmer Park uses on the b68-only one way trips-Brighton Beach to Coney Island. Why dont they do it both ways during pm rush? The driver has to get back to brighton Beach anyway.
Anything's possible, but at this point (and we're nearing "crunch time") there are no plans to make the Summer Pick a System Pick.
David
Interesting that you say that the B-45 is being transferred to Gleason. I really doubt that is going to happen for the following reasons.
1-It will cost more for the TA to operate the route. The dead head time from East New York is shorter to Ralph Ave than the dead head time from Gleason is to Court Street unless they are planning to interline the B-45 with the B-37.
2-The heaviest ridership on the B-45 i believe is on the eastern part of the route. In order to maintain current headways if the B-45 operates from Gleason then buses will have to enter service earlier in the morning and remain in service longer in the evenings.
3-I believe that the B-8 has more runs than the B-45 and that Gleason will be short changed on that end even with the B-48 being transferred to Gleason from Fresh Pond.
4-About the B-48 being transferred unless they are planning major service increases on current Fresh Pond routes because of Gateway Mall i really doubt that the B-48 is moving at this time.
5- I read the proposed service adjustments list in the TA February committee report and if memory serves me correctly they were no changes made on the B-68. It is possible that operations planning may have made some additional interlineing where routes were cut and service was not.
Thats my opinion.
Thank You
I live in the Bronx and can't find any old Bronx bus maps, even on this site. I'm looking for the old BX8 route when it ran on Burke Avenue. I ride that bus a lot, and would like some history.
I got to leave early, and quickly went to the 95 SEPTA bus stop to catch the bus home. I waited, and the bus was a little late, so I thought it was a Neoplan (not that I'd be dissapointed). However, to my surprise, NEW FLYER 5658 appeared. Finally, I would get to ride a New Flyer.
The New Flyer was great. My only complaint was that it vibrated a bit when it was still, but that brought me back to the days of riding WMATA's 1990's Flxible Metro B's (I think those have Cummins engines). I agree with RTS_2150 about the uniqueness of the engine. There was a whine over another lowerer pitch hum of the engine, along with the normal DDC 50 series engine sounds. What I also noticed about the engine was that it ran similiarly to the Neoplan artics- that is, it starts off kinda slowly then picks up. Is that a special engine feature or something for the bus to do that? I However, the New Flyers, as you all know, go much faster than those Neoplan artics. I also liked the fact that there is some legroom in the front half of the bus. Pretty good observations for only a 10 minute bus ride, huh?
All in all, the New Flyer D40LF lives up to it's reputation. It's fast, comfortable, and has an engine that's kinda musical, and lives up to the SEPTA name. Therefore, with arms outstretched, I welcome it to SEPTA (yes, I know they've been here for a while, and no, I did not hug it). What's interesting was that a person that graduated from my school was talking about how the City and Victory division had these for years (a bus enthusiast as well?). The only sad thing is that instead of replacing NABI runs, they replace Neoplan runs...and will soon replace Neoplans all together...I wonder what numbering sheme they will use for the new ones though...
>My only complaint was that it vibrated a bit when it was still, but
>that brought me back to the days of riding WMATA's 1990's Flxible
>Metro B's (I think those have Cummins engines). I agree with
>RTS_2150 about the uniqueness of the engine. There was a whine over
>another lowerer pitch hum of the engine, along with the normal DDC
>50 series engine sounds. What I also noticed about the engine was
>that it ran similiarly to the Neoplan artics- that is, it starts off
>kinda slowly then picks up. Is that a special engine feature or
>something for the bus to do that?
Our S50 engines do have a tendancy to vibrate at stop lights, some moreso than others. A few of them, I actually put the bus in Neutral when at lights to smooth things out... I also use the Fast Idle to smooth out the engine when at stops.
Im wondering if the slow pick up is turbo lag? Ours seem to suffer slightly from that... 0-5 is slow, and then from there on it picks up quickly and smoothly. Actually, half the time, it accelerates so smoothly I end up going too fast too quickly... lol I dont mind the slow start though... it gives standees less of a lurch as I floor the pedal. :) (I'm such a lead foot... lol)
-Tyler-
What kind of Transmission do they have? Voith transmissions tend to take off very slowly and gain lots of speed once it gets going. If It's a DD50 engine, it is most likely so. Also, the Voith transmission would add that whining noise you had described. I personally think that New Flyers are great busses, very solid and fast (with a Cummins L10G/Allison). Although they CAN get boring after a while. Overall, they are great busses.
Well, they are Allison transmissions. Unless you are really paying attention to the acceleration of the bus, you barely even notice it. The lag lasts for about a second before the bus really picks up. It's probably a good thing as Disney RTS said before, because it presents less of a lurch when it takes off.
these buses should be ddec50 with a b400, am i correct? and the newest buses will prolly be numbered from 3501 on up and i really hope septa chooses neoplan because septa w/o neoplan is like peanut butter and no jelly or rita's and no water ice.
Yep they do have a DDC 50 275horsepower engine with a Allision world B-500 tansmission.
Sorry to disappoint you, but they went with New Flyer. Yeah, I completely agree with you, and that's why I was so disappointed and almost gave the impression that I hated every type of bus in the industry besides Neoplans, which I DON'T! I can't imagine WMATA without Flxible, but they had to go without Flxible against their will. SEPTA could've gone Neo, but didn't...at least they went with New Flyer, though, if not Neoplan.
The Septa New Flyers will vibrate at stop lights but when it idles for about 5-10 mins it feels that it is in neutral. 0-5 @ around 6mph the turbocharger will begin to kick in that's why it has the slow pick up the But the ones like that are the fastest Anway the reason why it pick up that way is becouse the DDEC is set up to do that unlike the nabis are slower. The newer New Flyer do that put when they are in the fleet for a while it may go away!
Today Around 4:00pm I saw three FP 1987 RTS : 4676,4714,4727 all back to back going down Flatlands Av & Rocaway going westbound on Flatlands i am Wonder where they were coming from & where they were going
4676 - NIS
4714 - NIS
4727 - NIS
4759 - B6
Maybe they're heading over to UP so they can make riders miserable over there. Please don't get made caine824, I'm only joking. :)
Honestly, I don't know why those buses were in Canarsie. As far as I know, Fresh Pond does not do extra runs for routes that aren't theirs. Their buses only provide service for their routes only. I closest FP route to Flatlands/Rock Pkwy is the B20, however there is no reason for any NIS B20 to pass through there. Maybe Big Al can tell you why you saw these FP buses so far from their home area(although I wish they wouldn't come back anytime soon).
Oops, I'm meant to say mad, not made.
Probably headed towards Ralph Ave to do a trip on the B47. I have seen Fresh Pond buses on the B47.
Peace,
Kevin
hey-im not upset. #4714 and #4727 are ex-Ulmer Park buses anyway. Not what id expect to see go back. if i see them running with ulmer park stickers,ill let you know.
Because of a lack of buses in Flatbush some Fresh Pond buses from the Q-54 i believe dead head to operate school trips on the B-47
Thank You
This will cease after the current pick.
Why is JG getting buses from other depot all of a sudden?? Today I saw Bus #8931 on the B65 line with the JG stickers, I have seen 2 buses at JG on the B65 from other depots so far, #9398 (orginally from Flatbush) and 8931 (orginally from ENY), Does anybody got any info on this?
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Are they now desperate for buses, or are these buses just holding the fort until more Orion VIIs arrive. On a sidenote, #9032 spent some time in JG back in 2000 or 2001, but was back in ENY within 2 or 3 weeks.
9032 B15
Ok That was 2 years ago(which doesn't really matter), JG has gotten buses from other depots before, but I want to know why now?
I remember 9100 and 9107 was at JG before, and some 9000 series from ENY was at JG in the past, and I know I saw 9393 about a year ago on the B65 from Flatbush.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
I hope JG doesn't take any of FP's Novas. If FP has to lend them a bus, give them an 8000/8100 or something.
No, let them have back one of their 4600s!
Stop worrying. Gleason nor any other depot isn't going to (take) any of the existing Novas away from Fresh Pond. In fact I heard a rumor today that D.O.B. wants to pull ALL the 4000's out of Fresh Pond very soon although I don't know how that is going to happen. The more realistic story I've been hearing lately is that F.P. is to receive 45 8000's from Gleason, as soon as the Orion VII's start hitting them.
BIG AL
Hello Big AL,
That is great news to hear from you! I'm sure this will make all the Fresh Pond people happy! ABout 45 8500s huh? That should be exciting!
You're going to get repowered TMC Buses? Those buses are worse than the 3900s 4600s and 4700s. I'd rather have the older buses those pieces of garbage 8400 8500 series. Those used to be the best buses in the house. NOT ANYMORE!!! Same goes for 8000-8396. Once they repowered them, then I lost interest in those clunk-a-junks.
Here's something that'll make some people happy-I prefer to ride an Orion than those TMC repowered buses.
#4704 B61
#276 Q32
Um, the Non-repowered 8400's/8500's weren't that great(and definitely not the best). I like them a lot more repowered, I'm sick of the old engines's sound. And no, the 3900's/4600's/4700's are not greater. I'll admit, repowering the 1993 OrionV's was a big mistake, they're horrible.
As for Fresh Pond, I hope to see more buses that do less pollution. Who cares if they're faster or slower. Most of Fresh Pond's routes don't even allow any bus to go above 40 M.P.H.. Hah, I'd love to see a B/O try that on the Q58.
As for Fresh Pond, I hope to see more buses that do less pollution. Who cares if they're faster or slower.
I bet the driver cares if they are faster/slower. Theres nothing worse than a bus that cant get out of it's own way. You are also more at risk of having an accident if you cant pick up speed because you cant pull out of the bus stop w/o creating a hazard and you are more likely to be cut off by another vehicle. I always prefer a bus that has good takeoff, Im not as concerned about top speed.
Peace,
Kevin
Then refuse Bus 3997 out of FP! That bus is one slow ass crawler.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! What about ULmer Park??? What are we getting..4600's??????? Maybe we get lucky and get the 8600's that JG has. Ulmer PArk screwed again.
Nah thats ok, if anything the 8600's will probably get sent back to ENY.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
B14#8673
B15#8703
B83#8920
Bus 531 is now in Queens Village. I saw it coming home today from St. John's. Normally, this means a 1986 RTS in QV gets scrapped. Did this happen this time, or is Bensonhurst and Ridgewood getting short shrift again with more old buses?
CS's 1995 Orions are now: 404, 425, 452-456, 532-542, 544-580.
509 Q46
531 Q46
Question is why is CS giving their Orions to QV when they're extremely short? According to a friend of mine who works at CS, waiting for a bus assignment is getting worse and worse by the day.
Longer and longer and longer.
I do know all the 500s are going to QV. But will CS get the Orion 7 order instead of QV?
And I rode 4501 on the Q46 about 2 weeks ago.
I have also seen 4336 in action-so no they have not gotten rid of the 1986 RTS as of yet. And they also have those 7000 series remans.
#7011 Q46
#276 Q32
#4336 Q88
I saw the bus i think that left QV for JAM: 4335. Saw it this morning.
Could be that CS is starting make room for the D60HF's when they arrive.
Yeah that may be true. However they're supposed to get 5742-5769-the tail end of the order. That won't arrive for a while yet. They're only up to 5551 and a few in between still have not been delivered as of yet.
#5529 M23
Sweet. What routes will they run on? The Q20A/B? HAHA. :) Sorry, it's just that I'm so tired of Orions on those lines and even an RTS' would break up the monotony.
Seriously,mainly the Q44 and from what I heard(of course this is heresay)the Q12 possibly
that would provide a perfect photo for DaRidgewood Bus Buff to take pictures, and maybe for him to toast over that decrepit bus' tow to Naporano. Oh wait, we should put the anti-war protestors in that bus (and 4116 as well)!
I need to get to FP territory ASAP and get a pic of 3997 just for DaRidgewood. ;)
#3997 Q58
4416 B83
B1-#4497-RTS
When JG's gets more Orion7's, it might help the other Brooklyn division depots kill some of the pre-1990 crap that was dumped here.
3474 M2
CoachUSA seems to own every bus line in the PABT. Are the companies they bought still in business? Are they like the Microsoft of the communter bus industry?
Coach USA is a subsidiary of a British Company called StageCoach Lines. I think they sold stock to the public in order to raise money to buy up many of the operators.
However, as Trevor Logan and others have reported, the only companies that are making money for them are located in the NYC area. It was a case of growing too large, too fast. In fact, as reported on this board and other places, they have sold off 5 New England area companies (Bonanza, Arrow and 3 others) to Peter Pan Bus Lines of Springfield MA>
Hello fellow BusTalkers,
Okay, tis one is from September 24th, 1997 when I was in Manhattan and took the "F" train into Brooklyn (Jay St/Borough Hall). I sat at the park at the corner of Fulton St and Boerum Pl (where the B41 makes the left turn going towards the courthouse) and here's what I took down from being in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens:
**********************************************************************
REMEMBER MY SYMBOLS: "'" means this bus has the "MTA New York City Bus" logo on it. Some buses already have the logo like all buses after 1995. "*" means this bus is brand new OR new to the depot (moved from one depot to another) OR even new/surprise to me!
**********************************************************************
Casey Stengel:
1993 Orion 05.501 #183', #205', #256'
1995 Orion 05.501 #542'
Castleton:
1985 GMC RTS-04 #3863', #3871, #3876', #3882'-3883, #3885
1993 Orion 05.501 #157', 172'
1995 Orion 05.501 #498'* (This bus was new to me because I could not find buses #459-504..now I know as I travelled to Staten Island), #622'
East New York:
1983 GMC RTS-04 #3072', #3086', #3153, #3156, #3175, #3201
1985 GMC RTS-04 #3985', #3994', #4016'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8090'*, #8110'
1994 TMC RTS-06 #8681, #8703
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #8906', #8927'
1997-1998 GMC RTS-04 Remanufactured #7513'
Flatbush:
1981 GMC RTS-04 #1429*
1982 GMC RTS-04 #1716'*, #2583'*, #2598'*
1983 GMC RTS-04 #3004', #3029, #3046, #3053, #3060, #3063
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3406'*, #3414'*, #3427*-3428*, #3432'*
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8142'*, #8164'*, #8443, #8448
1997-1998 GMC RTS-04 Remanufactured #7505'
Fresh Pond:
1982 GMC RTS-04 #1662'*, #2678'*, #2683'*
1983 GMC RTS-04 #3311, #3318'
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3667'-3669'
1985 GMC RTS-04 #4080-4081', #4084', #4087, #4093, #4100, #4107-4108, #4205', #4213'
1987 TMC RTS-06 #4675-4676', #4680'*, #4732-4733, #4736', #4745
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8143', #8155, #8166'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9155, #9157
Hudson:
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3485', #3489', #3584, #3597
1985 GMC RTS-04 #4117', #4157'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8225', #8233, #8249
1993 TMC RTS-06 #8497, #8506', #8515'
Jackie Gleason:
1983 GMC RTS-04 #3171*
1985 GMC RTS-04 #4049'*, #4060*
1987 TMC RTS-04 #4601', #4610', #4616, #4619, #4621, #4630, #4665*, #4668'*-4669* (One of these buses did not have a destination sign in the back), #4702*, #4705*
1991 TMC RTS-06 CNG #8398*
1993 TMC RTS-06 #8528, #8532-8532, #8543-8544, #8556, #8558, #8561-8562
1995 Orion 05.501 #452
1995 Orion 05.501 CNG #587', #606'*, #608'*
Jamaica:
1982 GMC RTS-04 #1721', #1749'
1985 GMC RTS-04 #3938, #3941'
1986 GMC RTS-04 #4562', #4573', #4595'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #8953', #9348'
Manhattanville:
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8263, #8270'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #8757', #8777', #8991'
Mother Clara Hale:
1986 GMC RTS-06 #4441', #4444'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8000', #8002-8003, #8005, #8021', #8027', #8030'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9111', #9114, #9116, #9120, #9131
Queens Village:
1981 GMC RTS-04 #2368
1982 GMC RTS-04 #1742'
1983 GMC RTS-04 #3217, #3229
1985 GMC RTS-04 #3908, #3976, #3982
1986 GMC RTS-06 #4325', #4328'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8357', #8367'
1996 GMC RTS-04 Remanufactured #7004', #7013
Ulmer Park:
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9288', #9291', #9294', #9297', #9300', #9302', #9304' (Throughout that yearof 1997-1998, that bus was the regular bus. If I did not see that bus, that meant that something happened to it.), #9306', #9308'-9309', #9311', #9323', #9327', #9332, #9340'
Yukon:
1985 GMC RTS-04 #3812, #3854
1987 TMC RTS-06 #4880'
1993 Orion 05.501 #112', #125', #127', #143'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9264', #9268'
100th St:
1984 GMC RTS-04 #3635
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8218
1994 TMC RTS-04 #8600'
126th St:
1987 TMC RTS-06 #4823', #4828'
1990 TMC RTS-06 #8195'
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9190'
Whew! That was a lot of stuff! Hope this brings back some memories!
Um, Fresh Pond never received the 8143.
Hello,
I forgot three buses from Fresh Pond....sorry about that!
Fresh Pond:
1996 NovaBus RTS-06 #9167', #9174', #9185'
I know it's still early but does anyone have any info on when and where this year's Busfest is gonna take place?And what's the status of the Transit Museum?Is it gonna open sometime this year or not?
according to the staff at the transit museum store in grand central the nyct museum on court st will reopen this summer possibly as early as june. there are no dates known for busfest. hopefully it will coincide with museum reopening.
For those of you hunting for the elusive Road Champs Flxible Metro in SEPTA colors, I have one listed on eBay; it comes with detailed lights and trim, plus a Buy It Now price with a special bonus item. You will find it under seller search "flxible". I have other bus items there as well. Enjoy!
-F.
cant you just buy them from the septa store? but how much is it?
They are $8.95 plus shipping at the SEPTA store.
I had no idea SEPTA still had these; when I tried to get one, they were out of them. At any rate, the one on eBay has detailed lights, Pennsylvania license plates, free shipping, and a free American flag included.
-F.
the price? sounds like a nice lil bus
SEPTA is completely out of them, and since Road Champs stopped making them, they are gone for good. They aren't even on the SEPTA store website anymore. If I had known this was going to happen, I would've kept the one I have in better shape instead of taking it everywhere to show everyone (I was 12, what did I know?).
The SEPTA store is definitely out of the Road Champ buses. They had none in stock when I visited the store in person last August. About a month ago, they did have the buses listed through another Philly-area website, but when I went to order them, I was informed by the store manager that the website was outdated and the model buses are all gone.
Jim D.
Caine824, Are you the one ask my co-worker who is a Traffic Checker working on B6 line back in March 8,2003 asking for me?
God Bless to U.S. Soldiers
David
yup-that was me. im easy to reconize. Shades,NYPD Hat. Not hard at all.
i was on Run 11 that day & there was a light pole than hanging half way whoever knock down near 62st & Bay Pkway & my B/O almost hit the light pole around 0530am heading to New Lot Ave.
God Bless to U.S. Soldiers
David
I know #9092 is a ULmer Park bus, but today, 3/26/03 i saw it on the B63 with JG stickers on it. Is this a temporary move? Just curious.
B1-#4874-TMC RTS
B64-#9304-NOVABUS
I been seeing the same damn thing! I saw 9398 from Flatbush on the B65 with JG stickers and 8931 on the B65 with JG Stickers(orginally ENY bus).
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
There was an article in todays edition of the New York Post that reported that unless the City of New York and the MTA come to an agreement over the operartions of the private bus lines by midnight April 1st than New York Bus Service will cease operations as of Tuesday.
Thank You
According to the NY1 website, NYBS President Jim O'Reilly has stated that his company will not strand its riders, and that they are trying to work out a transfer that would be 'unnoticed' by NYBS riders.
JD
I read today on the New York Straphangers web page that talks about buses it was reported that on the Q-1 which operates out of Queens Village that the line will be reduced to only 4 runs with the balance of the route being operated on the miscellanus table.
Also a Stengel driver told me that the miscell. table which currently has about 20 runs will go up to over 60 runs the next pick.
Some East New York drivers told me that some runs on the B-14 and B-17 are being interlined and that the B-42 runs are being interlined with the B-12 and the B-60.
An Ulmer Park Driver told me that some runs are being interlined with what was the old PM peak rush extras that Ulmer Park currently operates on the B-68
Thank You
[I read today on the New York Straphangers web page that talks about buses it was reported that on the Q-1 which operates out of Queens Village that the line will be reduced to only 4 runs with the balance of the route being operated on the miscellanus table.]
"Reduced" is the WRONG word. Service levels are not being changed; all the trips that were there before will still be there; and passengers will still board their buses at the same times. Only the DISTRIBUTION of the work is changing.
Basically, Transit is simply scheduling multiple routes together in order to maintain current levels of service at a lower cost. Yes, it's annoying to drivers who like to stay on the Q1; on the other hand, it's totally transparent to the passengers, AND it's better than actual service cuts.
- - - - -
[An Ulmer Park Driver told me that some runs are being interlined with what was the old PM peak rush extras that Ulmer Park currently operates on the B-68.]
One problem with extras is that bus operators (and depot management) too often perceive them as "optional" pieces of work which don't always need to be covered. Extras are NOT optional; they represent trips that need to be there but, for whatever reason, are not included in runs. When extras are routinely not covered, they're incorporated into runs to ensure that the trips do get covered.
And the problem with listening to what Bus Operators say is that they're often wrong. The extras in Ulmer Park that do B68 work will continue to be there in the Spring Pick.
David
doesn't the Bx25 use a lot of extras?
Barry wrote:
I read today on the New York Straphangers web page that talks about buses it was reported that on the Q-1 which operates out of Queens Village that the line will be reduced to only 4 runs with the balance of the route being operated on the miscellanus table.]
Gotham replied:
"Reduced" is the WRONG word. Service levels are not being changed; all the trips that were there before will still be there; and passengers will still board their buses at the same times. Only the DISTRIBUTION of the work is changing.
He didn't say that service was reduced. He correctly stated that the LINE will be reduced. The Q-1 will be reduced to 4 runs.
Gotham wrote:
One problem with extras is that bus operators (and depot management) too often perceive them as "optional" pieces of work which don't always need to be covered. Extras are NOT optional; they represent trips that need to be there but, for whatever reason, are not included in runs. When extras are routinely not covered, they're incorporated into runs to ensure that the trips do get covered.
Nobody, whether depot management, nor bus operators perceive extra service as optional. Extras are overtime and issued in accordance with the current collective bargaining agreement.
Thank You
Where is PA is Schuylkill County?
Hope this helps! - Michael B.
http://www.go-sts.com/
Judging by the front page of the site, they seem to operate cutaway buses and some TMC RTS buses from the mid-1990s (as do several smaller transit systems within the state - Lancaster, Williamsport, Harrisburg, Pottstown, and Erie, among others).
this is vautrin179..aka simon looking for "F" about current order. please email me when order was delivered.
NYCT 8660 has a leak. I rode it just now on the M96. One seat was unusable do to Niagara Falls pouring down from the ceiling.
---Brian
all buses have it, just some worse than others. One thing I notice, though, is that the 1999 novas all have a leak above the right hatch. I have seen this on 4942 and 4973.
4973 B82
4942 Q31
Noticed that ex-NJT 6448 was being sold on eBay.
Apparently, there's a bus conversion company near Allentown that specializes in the sale of ex-NJT buses for possible conversion to motorhomes and whatnot.
That company is amazing! I want to buy a bus!
Man,I love those buses!!Especially a 1990 Neoplan bus that I saw there on Ebay!Good price and best part of all,NO CDL needed to drive it!! I don't have a CDL,if only I had the money I'd buy that bus in a heartbeat!! And another bus I saw there that I like is a 1981 GMC RTS tour bus.My God,that bus looks so amazing it doesn't even look like it's 22 years old!Man o man do I wish I had that bus!I'd put Miami Dade Transit's old green and blue strips with the "M" on it and drive it around NYC!That's my only dream when it comes to owning a bus.Hey do you or anyone else here knows of some really good website's that sells transit buses,mainly RTS's,Flexible's and/or Orion's from 1982-Present? Please let me know,I'm dyin to find more website's like those!
that suburban RTS is actually a hevily rebuilt ex LA bus
I dont care! I'd still put Miami Dade Transit's old logo on it!I love that bus,it's totally awesome!
I also found some interesting pictures of this same conversion company (Walker Coach) of ex-Red & Tan 6602 into a motorhome. On some of the shots of the rear of the bus, note the use of an engine cover off of an-ex SEPTA Neoplan AN-440 (most likely, one of the 8000-series buses).
I also found some interesting pictures of this same conversion company (Walker Coach) of ex-Red & Tan 6602 into a motorhome. On some of the shots of the rear of the bus, note the use of an engine cover off of an-ex SEPTA Neoplan AN-440 (most likely, one of the 8000-series buses).
O M G, these people are "DESTROYING" a perfectly good MCI MC-9A.
I think I'm gonna be sick!
Would you prefer that they be scrapped? They are, at least giving them a second life.
Peace,
ANDEE
I fear that the current cat and mouse game with NYBS will eventually start to hurt ridership on that system. Therefore, I believe a hybrid system may be necessary to alleviate this crisis. The following is proposed:
1) The BXM7A would become an MTA route and be interlined with the X26 as well as the X90/X92. This route does not have too many buses to store, so they may be able to be temporarily stored outside near Gun Hill.
2) A private company (preferably the firm that I own, TransportAzumah) would run the BXM7. The volume is enough that this line could break-even or better. This company would also operate the BXM7B.
3) Liberty Lines would operate the BXM6 and BXM10 as a combined route. Liberty Lines would have a lot of deadhead time to get to he Bronx terminals.
4) Queens Surface would operate the BXM9. Throgs Neck is a 20 minute sprint from College Point if traffic behaves.
Comments welcome.
How many New Looks do NYBS currently operate
Michael Burke, the vice president of Queens Surface, spoke tonight at the Mitchell-Linden Civic Association general membership meeting. He brought with him a whole stack of brand new QS express bus schedules - accurate as of March 23rd, 2003. I pulled him aside after the meeting, and we talked about various bus-related things for about 45 minutes. He's some of the things he told me:
-QS really had no say in the matter when it came to outfitting the buses they now have. For example, it was the MTA that forced the "pull-strings" upon them, as well as the low-back "express buses", which we know as the Orion 500s.
-QS also has absolutely no authority when it comes to the maintenance of bus stop signs. If it's missing, incorrect, or misplaced, it's totally up to the DOT to fix them. Michael said that he's been bugging the DOT for months now to fix several QS signs around Linden Place, the Whitestone Expwy., and 28th Ave., but the DOT hasn't done a thing yet.
-Michael really loves the "new style" bus stop signs which are all over Manhattan and Staten Island, and have now started to trickle their way into Brooklyn and Queens. He says that Queens will be last in the sign conversion, and further more, the QS signs will be replaced even later. When I mentioned the small number of "new style" signs that I had seen on Union St., Main St., and in a few other spots in Flushing, he said that they were only a test. Those were put up close to two years ago, and nothing more has happened since then.
-He mentioned the MTA's takeover of the NYBS, and how the MTA is still kicking around the idea of taking over the privates.
-Even when the express fare goes up to $4.00, QS wants to keep its "off-peak" discounts for local fares, although the MTA is doing everything it can to make QS get rid of it.
-Everytime someone uses a pay-per-ride Metro Card on a QS bus, QS only makes $1.12 out of the $1.50 fare. The rest goes to the MTA.
-He said their 1988 MCI Classics are getting a bit out of shape, and he's been begging the MTA for some new buses. He says when it comes to ordering buses, the MTA gets their's the fastest, while QS will order some, and then be told, "You'll get them in about four years."
-The MTA wants every bus stop in the city to eventually have those "Guide-A-Ride" blocks which display maps of all the buses that stop there, as well as giving a schedule of when the bus gets to that stop.
-Michael's message to the people of Queens is that if you live somewhere where QS buses AND MTA buses both run down your street, please consider taking the QS route instead. (Especially anyone who lives near the northern terminus of the Q34.) It costs the same amount of money to run the route whether you ride it or not, so if you want that bus to stay in your neighborhood as an alternative option, then please show your support.
I felt so sorry for those QS guys after the meeting was over. I had no idea how badly they were treated by their "Brothers in Blue."
Although I must say, the funniest part of our conversation came when he asked me how I had such an extensive knowledge of bus-related things at my age...
"Wow, you're quite the bus enthusiast, aren't you?"
"Yeah, well....there's this message board I go to where a lot of bus enthusiasts go, and there are some guys who post there who actually work at the different depots and stuff, so they can pass along all the inside info."
"Thurston?"
"Thurston."
*laughter ensues*
Nice report. Just want to clear up one or two things:
1) If you want to ever take a class in bus maintenance, look at NYBS. They spend a lot of money to keep those buses in good shape and it shows. In exchange, they get good reliability and lower operating costs because of it.
2) Remove "MTA" from the discussion when it comes to rolling stock. This has and is a NYCDOT issue until the privates are taken over. They got so carried away with natural gas that they didn't pay much attention to how the bus is outfitted for express service. NYBS refused to operate the Orions because the Fishbowls were being taken over them.
3) Franchise bus service can't legally disappear. They can be reduced to practically no service if necessary, but they can't be reduced to ABSOLUTELY no service. Therefore, the amount of buses that may show up in the neighborhood can change, but it will always run there.
4) NYCDOT abuses all the companies. They should have ordered the replacements for the 1985-1986 RTS fleet when the dough was flowing. Now, you'll have to wait until the MTA takes over because the franchise bus system will be milked for money until it's gone.
For all us bus operators that have been cut off by some wannabe hotshot female in a fast car, I have avenged all of u. Check this out. I was eastbound in the Route 25A bypass yesterday morning when I noticed some female in a Ford Taurus bobbing and weaving behind me. Traffic was moving slowly cause of a truck up ahead. I came out of the bypass and went into the left lane to go around the truck and this broad runs up on my right side to try and cut me off.
But I caught up to the truck so she went behind me. The light at Randall turned red, so I thought that if I passed the truck and slowed down, she would cut the truck driver off to beat me to the junction and probably beat the light. So when the truck started slowing down, I slowed down with him, so she was trapped behind the both of us. When the light turned green, I eased off the line, same as the truck so she had no chance of beating us to the merge. So where was she going in such a hurry? To the Shoreham Post Office!
It's bad enough people want to see my bus turned into a mangled mass of sheet metal with spilled diesel fuel and me in the hospital. I got revenge and it made my day.
That's really nice...did you use the rear destination sign to scroll "SUCKER" across the back?
'SCKR'! :P
In todays New York Newsday it was reported that an agreement between the MTA and the NYCDOT is very close that will allow the MTA to take over the routes currently operated by the private companies under contract from the NYCDOT.
It was reported that the routes of New York Bus Service and one other company will be taken over by the end of the month(it did not specify March or April) and the balance be taken over on June 30th
Thank You
Which other company is it gonna be?They better leave Triboro Coach alone.I like Triboro Coach,why? I dunno,the paint scheme is red and red is one of my 2 fave colors.the other being blue.
emmitt smith signed a two year contract with the cardinals, hoping they can make a superbowl run. sombody please wake them up from that dream, they can't even win on playstation...
Yeah this definantly has nothing to do with buses.Therefore,you should've kept that to yourself.I know about it already but this board is for bus discussion's ONLY!! Not football.Wanna talk about football,go to a football discussion board.This isn't the place for it.
Of course, National Airport has a WMATA metrorail station and BWI as of now doesn't. Hey I can tie a bus post to this one.
Speaking of the Arizona Cardinals has any of Phoenix's transit buses ever come with a wrap(if they do wraps) of the Arizona Cardinals, and if it does, does it come with a paper bag to place over that.
With the merger, what routes would be combined, elimated or restructured with the merger of the DOT Private lines and MTA NYCT Bus lines. and does this merger include the Express Routes also.
They are not ada complient and stocking addtioal parts in inventory for a relativly few buses is not cost effective. Not to mention training mechancics to fix them
One positive note about the NYBS takeove. Most drivers and mechanics wish to stay with NYBS so the mta will not have to absorb there unnneded staff. It is better to hire a rookie driver off the street trained your way then inherit someone elses
2-The fishbowls are NYBS classic coaches 1601,1602 and 1603 are owned by New York Bus Service and they will determine what happens to them
3-The drivers and maintaince staff of New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines will most likely have an option to either remain with the company or move into the TA. New York Bus Service will still operate a school bus system and Liberty Lines operate the Bee Line system in Weschester through Liberty Lines TRansit Inc.
4-The fact that some of these buses are not ADA complient will not be a factor since the NYCDOT was in complience with the ADA laws already.
With the takeover you are still going to need these buses to maintain the current schedule. I believe that NYC Transit is looking to get additional MCI Coaches that are now being used on the TA Express routes for the DOT express routes. If that happens the current Express buses that are used for the DOT lines will become local buses.
5-The Command and Queens Surfice garages are city owned already and will become part of the TA. I speculate that the TA will also purchase the Green Line Rockaway Blvd facility and maybe the Triboro facility in Jackson Heights if the Triboro equipment can not be moved into the Queens Surfice facility in College Point. Anyhow i believe that the compaines will not be completely aborbed into the new structure until at least September and that the TA will continue to use the Jamaica Bus Line depot on Brewer Blvd and the Green Bus Rockaway Depot until then. The Bronx express buses will most likely go to Gun Hill and possibly Zerega until the new West Farms Depot opens by September.
6-Most changes will not occur to September because Operations Planning has to make up new schedules in accordance with TA work rules. Basically the DOT runs operate with swings as short as 20 minuates (the TA requires at least 30 minuates). In addition on the Private lines i believe the Hawk runs are the last runs of the day while in the TA they are the first runs of the day. In addition senority lists will have to be made up and you will see some route consolidations.
1-The B-2(TA)/B-100(Command)
2-The Q-21(Green Lines)/Q-53(Triboro)
3-The Q-19(Triboro)/Q-103(Queens Surfice)
This is not going to be easy for the TA. The original copncept was to take over New York Bus at first since they decicded to cease operations according to their contract and to take over the balance over a years time. Now they have just 3 months before the takeover is complete with an additional 2 months to work out the bugs with the current DOB operation.
I also believe that the consolidation of the OA with the TA which was agreed to under the new contract will be postponed until the DOT routes are fitted in the DOB operations.
This is speculation on my part only.
Thank You
The time table you prepose will not allow for this. It is more of a politiacally motivated time table then a practical time table. According to an article in todays newsday the ta wants the city to continue to subsidize the routes for the next few years. With this said it will cost less over the long haul to obsorb one operation at at time. Doesn't the private have some time left under there contract. It may be best to wait to the contract is over or the privates volintarily hand over the routes to avoid costly lawsuits
For instance all HR, accounting, scheduling and back end support staffs from the privates delt with. They are redundent and are not needed.
In addtion the bus shortage issues needs to be adressed. It take time to order new buses and get them delivered. In the short run the Non ADA complient Classics could be sent to one of the privates that will be taken over latter in the year and excahge them for the orion Suburbans. As More MCI's come aboard, they can be
In the case of NYBS, I read an article that the large majority of the drivers and mechanics wish to stay with NYBS shifting over to the school bus operations side of the business. This is a plus for the MTA.
Thank You
FROM PR NEWSWIRE PHILADELPHIA 800-523-4424/ 1/8STK3/8 1/8IN3/8 TRN 1/8SU3/8 TO CITY AND TRANSPORTATION EDITORS:
SEPTA Bus Routes 9, 21, 38 and 42 to Return to Normal Routings
With Reopening of Chestnut Street
PHILADELPHIA, March 27 /PRNewswire/ -- SEPTA bus Routes 9, 21, 38 and 42 will return to their normal routings in Center City on Tuesday, April 1, 2003 with the reopening of Chestnut Street between 5th and 6th Streets. The bus routes have operated on detours since the street adjacent to Independence Hall was closed due to security concerns following September 11th, 2001.
The reopening of the street will allow bus Route 9 to resume its regular eastbound routing on Chestnut Street at 30th Street. Route 38 service will return to its regular eastbound routing on Chestnut Street at 15th Street and Routes 21 and 42 will again operate eastbound from Chestnut Street at 7th Street.
For additional service information call the SEPTA Travel Information Center at (215) 580-7800. SOURCE SEPTA
-0- 03/27/2003
/CONTACT: Jim Whitaker of SEPTA Public Relations, +1-215-580-7842/
/Web site: http://www.septa.org / CO: SEPTA ST: Pennsylvania, New Jersey IN: TRN SU: DP -- PHTH045 -- 8063 03/27/2003 16:15 EST http://www.prnewswire.com
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a situation at hand. We have a war overseas, where thousands of our men and women are battling it out against the regime in Iraq in order to oust the person under scrutiny, Mr. Saddam Hussein. In the past 12 years, Mr. Hussein has been warned that he and his government, as well as his people, his citizens, that there would be serious consequences if he does not comply with United Nations Resolution 1441, in which [something to the effect of] he must disarm and destroy any weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), including any biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons as demanded within a given time frame. Since he didn't completely comply, we, the United States of America, as currently the world's only superpower, had to step in and oust him and his regime out of the country by means of war. Basically, the war is over in the Persian Gulf...yet again...but there are setbacks to this whole series of events, that which include the possibility of terrorism on our home soil. We are facing the reality of having terrorist attacks similar to what happened on 9/11 or what is going on in the Middle East, particularly Israel and the Palestine territory. OK, maybe not THAT ferocious, but certainly it's a real risk.
What does this have to do with buses and stuff? Well, here's what I am trying to get at...all of this rise in fear and vigilance against people and/or groups that partake in a number of "suspicious activities" that can include taking photographs of things that "normal" citizens would not even think to photograph. Well, unfortunately, we all know that we are the kind of people that take photographs of things other than what the "normal" person might not think of. We take photographs of transit buses, suburban buses, and motorcoaches. We are bus enthusiasts at heart, and photographing buses is something that most of us here love doing (including myself, Da Bus Ballatician, Bingham C50, Joe Saitta, and others whom I have failed to mention). Now, if politicians like Gov. George Paturkey (oops, I mean Pataki) are going to keep telling us not to be fearful and to live our lives as usual, with some sense of "normalcy" (to quote former president Woodrow Wilson's term), how can we do just that when there are police stopping busfan photographers from shooting buses in certain spots, and people, some who think we are doing something suspicious by doing what we love to do, that report us to the authorities when they think we are taking pictures of buses just to give them to somebody for them to blow them up or something else? We are being told to go about our normal lives, but OUR normal lives includes bus photography, and the authorities make what we loeve to do to be a bit unusual and suspect.
There's no doubt that some of us feel as if people give us dirty looks all the time when we do this, even more so nowadays... I mean, I know we are at war and in a state of vigilance, but if this kind of thing goes on where we as busfans and free individuals are hindered from taking up bus photography (or just told not to do so much of it in certain places), then what kind of society is this, where the only thing we CAN do without public scrutiny is worry and panic about this goddamn war? where we are confined to doing such-and-such thing at such-and-such time, as if we are "free but is everywhere else in chains" (quoting Henri Rousseau)? as if we can do whatever we want in this society, but only what society says is the cool thing to do, and nothing which we call unusual and suspect (such as our wonderful hobby)? What about those people who love to photograph skyscrapers or monuments, or those people who love messing with handguns and those who love ancient samurai swords? How dangerous are those kinds of hobbies? And yet, those groups aren't scrutinized for partaking in an interest that other consider awfully dangerous or suspect? I bet the only way they got their way, i.e., keeping their hobby with little or no sentiment from anyone was by lobbying and talking their asses off...
And that's what I think we all need to do...we need to have a discussion about this...our busfan photographer hobby seems to be at stake here, and i think that we should not let people do this to us and to ridicule or scrutinize a part of our lives like that, especially since most of us have been into buses ever since we were little kids...and the way we can start is by letting people know, particularly those who look at us and think we are doing suspicious behavior, and tell them when they ask us about our activities, our passion for the hobby, our interest in the hobby, even in a time of war, as we are starting to deal with.
I know this might sound like pish-posh to most of you, and I expect that, since most of my argument is either inconsistent or very disagreeable in some respects...but opening the dialogue for discussion is probably the best place to start..even though we might not all want to talk about it, we have to start somewhere...\
Post if you will, as comments are GREATLY appreciated...in fact, that's really all I am going for in this post...we all should address this issue
Do I agree with this procedure? Absolutely not. Will it protect you and your family. Absolutely.
The way I see it is, if there is a shot that I am looking for that I feel I should try and get it, for example, three MCIs parked next to each other in the Wall Street area, as I have done a few days ago...
...I will see to it that I at least try to get it...now, if that is illegal, I don't ever wanna be legal...this is part of who I am...I have an interest in buses and I like to take photos of them, and I like to take interesting photographs in unique locations, settings, and lightings...this is what I do for my pleasure...and what you're saying is that I should not be able to do that without being hassled just because of someone else's paranoia? That's the issue here...and I feel it should be addressed in much more detail than that...
It's not that easy, and I would like to refuse to accept an answer so simple as that...it just sounds like I should just give in...not easily, and not yet...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug...and no one can change that!
I haven't heard of bus fans getting harassed anywhere else in our country, even in this time of war.
Come to New York! Spend your money! Photograph our buses!
Now subways on the other hand, I'm VERY cautious, I only shoot trains on the elevated structures because that is less suspect then the undergroud portions. I will not shoot underground again until things cool off. But for the buses I haven't been harassed.
Also I wear my Coach USA ID around my neck too when shooting to kinda give them the idea that I am on the same team as them!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Coach USA/Rockland Coaches Operator
www.transitalk.org
Good luck to all Busfans and photographers here and don't run into trouble.
They threatened to call the police and hold me until the authorites arrived, so I said "Just take the damned camera...destroy it if you wish, but I really mean no harm!". Their reasoning: they didn't know what I was going to DO with those photos. They have a point; I could have been making a derogatory website about their company for all they knew. I was just an innocent busfan, but they didn't know that.
You really have to be careful about that these days...especially since we have terrorism and a war going on. As for my situation, thankfully it was a disposable. If it was a high-dollar Nikon or the like, I would have been highly upset!
-F.
---Brian
Do you know that there are people of Middle Eastern descent who are fleeing to Canada because the US is trying to register them? People are leaving everything they own and just taking off, because the freedom of liberty is being slowly pulled from under them. Freedom of speech is also being eroded to the point where disagreeing with the government may put you on an observation list. It's not about what you accept...the world is full of things that I don't accept, but must live with.
I wish you the best of luck in your photography and the picture you took was very nice. However, buses blow up every month or are shot at in Israel. EVERY mode is being watched and if you are taking pictures of it, people are watching you too. It only takes one paranoid citizen to make your life miserable and you should be mindful of that. If someone says that person X is photographing a fully loaded Artic, you BETTER believe that a squad car will be sent. It may not be something you accept...but the world doesn't run on fact, but speculation.
Wayne
(1) I don't want the hassle of catching the attention of police or transit employees and needing to explain myself.
I understand your fear. This is the main reason that I'm not rushing out to take bus photos now that the weather is nicer. But I'm also determined to resume my hobby, so I have to get used to the idea that such encounters may be part of the experience for now.
As I’ve posted on other transit boards, it’s important for transit photographers to keep in mind that we need to 'educate' law enforcement personnel about our hobby. Let's show them that we are not a threat to anybody. Keep in mind that the police have a difficult and stressful duty these days, and we don’t need to be making their jobs any more difficult. If you are stopped and questioned, be patient and answer all inquiries in a straightforward manner. If asked to produce I.D., do so. Don't give the police an excuse to detain you and create a bad impression of our hobby.
(2) I just don't want anyone to decide that I'm a "suspicious" person.
Unfortunately, bus and rail photographers are going to be looked at differently for a little while. As far as operating employees are concerned, anyone with a little seniority must know that there are those of us who like taking pictures of their vehicles. I’m a little more concerned about law enforcement personnel, but at the same time I understand that they are professionals and should understand that us citizens do have civil liberties. And being a transit photographer means getting used to weird looks and snide comments from passengers and pedestrians (although who knows what they’re thinking now?).
The whole country is a little on edge right now because of the war. Barring any terrorist actions (crossing fingers and knocking on wood here), I believe that the general level of anxiety will go down, and that we will be able to resume our hobby without too much trouble. For now, I would recommend that transit photographers pick their locations carefully. Avoid sensitive locations such as bridges and key government buildings. Whatever you do, stay in public areas and don’t trespass - now is not the time to go wandering around bus garages and yards without permission. I also think that attitude and body language is important. Don’t sneak around – that will only draw more suspicion. Act like taking pictures of buses and trains is the most natural thing in the world. If you have a cap or a shirt with a bus picture on it, you may want to wear it to better identify yourself as a bus fan (but be careful not to look like you’re impersonating a local transit employee).
Things will get better. I firmly believe that.
Jim D.
Now I admit, there are a couple of real tight turns along the route (11th and Huntingdon is a nortorious corner for tight turns), but if the many classes of trolleycars can run this route, (Nearside, PCC's , even test runs of the Kawasaki cars.), then the current models of buses can run this route too.
The word I've been hearing about Midvale's fleet is that they will basically be used on any and all Midvale lines, with frequent use of these buses on the C, 2, 47, and 57 (these are the routes shared with Southern). The 32 is also expected to see these buses regularly. On weekends, I would suspect they'd use them heavily on the artic lines (18, 22, and 55) as well.
Amazingly enough, I actually saw 5673 covering a 56 run; during the week, you'd normally see the 3000s during peak and base service. They've also been trickling in on the H/XH - another Neo stronghold, though today I did see at least 3 NABIs working those lines.
I doubt you will see them on either the 23 or 61 (Main St in Manayunk is even more difficult to navigate with a SEPTA bus than Germantown Av).
Again this is speculation on my part only !!!!
1-The TA will take over the Bronx routes first. I believe that the NYBS Routes will be assigned to Gun Hill Depot and the Liberty Lines Express routes to both Kingsbridge and the new West Farms Depot.
BTW- I passed West Farms yesterday. The building itself is complete but loads of work must be done in the inside of the building. Push comes to shove it can be useable by July no later than September.
2-The BxM3( Segweick Ave) will no longer operate to Getty Square. I also believe that the BxM 18 will be consolidated with the BxM2 in Riverdale West Side and Wall St lines.
3-Another possible consolidation is NYBS routes BxM6(Parkchester) and (BxM10 Morris Park)
4-The NYBS routes will be moved first and then followed by the Liberty Line routes.
5-The Queens lines and Command will be taken over by July 1st but no real changes will be made until September with the possible exception of the B100 Command route be merged with the TA B-2 route which i think will happen as early of July.
6-The TA will retain the Queens Surfice and Command depots as their are already city owned. I believe that the city will purchase the Green Bus Line main depot near Kennedy Airport but not the Green Lines Rockaway depot but will lease it until September. If the Triboro equipment can be moved into the Queens Surfice College Point Depot then the city will only lease the Triboro garage until September. If Triboro's equipment can not be moved into Queens Surfice's depot then the TA will likely purchase the Triboro garage.
7-The Jamaica Bus Line garage on Brewer Blvd will be retained at least until September. The future of this facility will be determined on what the TA wants to do with the current Jamaica Depot on South Road. If the TA wants to close the current depot and replace it with a new building then i believe they will lease the Jamaica Bus Line garage for several years. If the TA builds a new depot on another site then the TA will not lease the Jamaica Bus garage.
I will post additional speculation on bus route changes and line reassignment over the weekend
Thank You
I can see my buddy state senator Carl Kuger screaming that the B2 and B100 combined route will destroy the community, the extra traffic on residential streets(both routes run mostly on residential streets of 1 and two family homes) will cause people cancer. Seniors will have trouble walking the extra block. You guys get the picture.
2-Prior to the early 1990's the B-100 operated with a close door policy operating non stop between E. 16th Street and Utica Avenue.
3-By consolidating the B-2 and B-100 passengers will be seeing improved service because buses will be removed from one residential street. The same amount of buses will most likely be used on a consolidated service. In addition Mill Basin residents will have more service late nights and weekends than what the B-100 currently operates.
4-Granted some people will have to walk one additonal block with the exception of residents on Fillmore Avenue between Utica Ave and 56th Street who may have to walk two blocks but it is so few.
5-If the State Senator wants to have money wasted i suggest that you vote him out of office. The B-2/B-100 current operation is a waste of our taxpayers money in its current form
Thank You
"1-First of all to have seperate bus lines 1 block apart is a duplication and a waste of money."
Agreed. the only issue is east of flatbush ave during off peak hours. During peak hours some B2's terminate at Ave S and flatbush ave allowing some buses to serve mill basin and some to serve kings plaza. Ideally the bus should operate via commands current route(queiten road) west of nostrand/Garretsen ave(the B31 duplicates the B2's route between kings highway station and garitsen) The only problem is that to in order to operate via quetin road it will need to use kings highway(as b100 no does) kings highway bound which adds time to the trip.
"The same amount of buses will most likely be used on a consolidated service."
Not during rush hour. During rush there will not be able to reduce the number of buses in service that much unless they use larger buses. Most bus leave and arive at E 16th steeet kings highway station on both lines at capacity. The real savings is during no rush hour periods where ridership drops off.
"In addition Mill Basin residents will have more service late nights and weekends than what the B-100 currently operates."
Both services on weekends might as well not even run. They come so infrequent they are hardly used except for the riders to and from kings plaza. Most people on route have cars and will drive rather then wait 20 min for a bus.
4-Granted some people will have to walk one additonal block with the exception of residents on Fillmore Avenue between Utica Ave and 56th Street who may have to walk two blocks but it is so few.
The extra block walk only effects very few riders. Only those who live north of ave R between ryder and flatbush and 32nd and ave S. Riders along the B2 old route along along AVE R between E 16th street and garritsen will have a reduction in the number of buses per hour but not ussable service because the B2 and B31 generally leave and arrive at kings highway during rush hour at the same time.
5-If the State Senator wants to have money wasted i suggest that you vote him out of office. The B-2/B-100 current operation is a waste of our taxpayers money in its current form
I wish I could. He is artfull at pandering to seniors who represent the majority of his base
This guy was fighing to get funds to build a $10 million dollar senior center in marine park last year while the city had no money to operate it's current centers.
David
It was close door when Pioneer ran the line and was close door when i moved from Brooklyn in 1981. According to an old neighbor of mine who was a dispatcher for Pioneer ran the city rebuilt Fillmore Avenue between Gerritsen and Flatbush Aves and installed bus stops and no body knew why?
Thats the city for you
Good Luck with the merger You are going to have tons of work to do.
Thank You
The following are changes which i believe will happen no later than September
1-The B-2/B-100 consolidation which happen by July. The consolidated route will operate from E.16th St to 56th Dr via E.16th St,Ave R,Gerrittsen Ave,Ave R,E.36th St,Ave S,Flatbush Ave,Ave U,E.66th St,National Dr,Strickland Ave,56th Dr and stand
RETURN- VIA 56th Dr,E.66th St,Ave U,Flatbush Ave,Ave S,E.36th St,Ave R,Haring St,Ave R,Ocean Ave,Quientin Rd to E. 16th St.
Some buses will terminate at Kings Plaza except for late nights and i believe that 24 horu service will be restored. The consolidated route will be assigned to Flatbush Depot.
2-The Green Bus Lines Q-35 will be assigned to Flatbush Depot.
3-Triboro Coach route Q-39 and Queens Surfice route Q-67 will be assigned to Fresh Pond Depot
4-The B-47 will be transferred from Flatbush to East New York Depot
5-The B-20 will be transferrd from Fresh Pond completely to East New York.
6-The B-17 and B-42 routes will be transferred from East New York to the Commannd depot which will retain the B-103 and the Command express routes.
THIS IS SPECULATION ON MY PART ONLY
Thank You
The only issue I have with this is that it make more sense to operate the Combined service via Quetin road from Garitesen/Nostrand(old B100 route) due to the fact that the B31 will continue to operate along ave R from Garritsen to E 16th street.
I know making the turn onto kings highway and onto E 16th steeet is a pain in the butt kings highway bound. This routing will remove the outcry of removing the bus from QR. During rush hours the B2 and B31 are timed to reach Kings highway station at aprox the same time therefore will not significantly increase wait time at for riders along ave R between Garritsen Ave and E 16th street station
The B2 runs on Ave R and Ave S turns on flatbush and heads down to kings plaza (3 blocks south)
The B100 runs on Filmore ave(one block from ave R and S) and continues past flatbush into mill basin.
The B100/B2 is essentially a commuter line to and from Kings highway E 16th street Q subway station serving the neighborhoods of madison, marine park and Mill Basin.
A consolidated line would allow shorter headways during rush hour and a slight reduction in overall runs during rush hour.
On the corner of E36th street and Filmore Ave, the buses cross each other and riders take the first bus line to come.
The reason the Combine B2/B100 should run on Quieten road west of nostrand/Garritsen Ave is that the third commuter bus to Kings highway station the B31 follows the current B2 route west of Garritsen Ave. Keeping one line on queiten road B100/B2 and one line on Ave R allows coverage of both avenues.
From an operational prespective it may be better to put the B100/B31 on ave R and the B31 on QR but community leaders would probably prefer it the other way as many students commute to Madison HS(zone school for Marine Park) which is on the corner of QR and Bedford. Droping the students directly in front of the school would reduce property damage to nearby lawns due to the larger crowds the combined route would draw.
99% of the people in the neighborhoods the B2/B100 serve have cars and use the bus line to commute to and from the subway station only. Most of the line runs on residential streets without stores. The line has very few seniors or disabled riders who would be negativly impacted by the additioal one long block walk to the bus line.
The real savings is off hours where both buses run at less then 25% capasity. Current headways could be maintained during miday periods without any overcrowding.
The DOT Routes are run by a few private companies who operate routes which at one time had low ridership for which the MTA did not want to operate. The city contracts out these route's on a cost Plus expenses contracts. This has led to tons of abuse by the franchise companies who under law must be put up for bid every few years.
Why merge them into the MTA?
If the MTA would take over the routes they could operate them at a far cheaper cost then the current structure
The city currently pays out $1.8 million dollars a year to a small group of senior executives at the private bus lines. Some of these executives are partners in multiple bus companies and are getting paid by both companies. The lines could be absorbed into the existing TA bus management structure further reducing administrative costs.
There are a few duplicate routes that could be consolidated to reduce costs EX B2/B100
The very nature of the cost plus operating expenses contracts gives little incentives to run an effecient operation. NYBS maintians it's buses very well due to the fact that they do not have to worry about the maintance costs. They are the exception. Some of the other companies run up huge expense tabs but there buses are not in the best shape.
Plus the bus companies have underfunded their employees pensions and are tring to hit up the city for their poor business management
If the TA would take over some routes could be moved to ruduce deadhead times. For instance command bus's express routes travel 8 miles or more from the end of there route to the depot in east new york. Both MTA and private routes could be moved around to improve effeciencies
What's the poternial roadblocks?
1) The privates have some older equiptment that is not ADA compatable that can not be operated by the MTA
2)Some privates are represented by a different union
3) Not all the depots the privates operate out of are owned by the city
4)How much of the current subsidy will the city contribute to the MTA to take over the routes
Well I wish i was able to read this topic before I am missing alot and I am trying to update myself on everything about this merger. Currently right now I am prepaing to fght this war in Iraq. So I am using this time to ease my mind.
Most ridership along the B2 and B100 line get on at kings highway station or madison high school(bedford ave), Nostrand AVE west of Gerritsen.
The reason I am suggesting the Combined B2/B100 run via Quentin Rd west of Gerritsen is to keep coverage on both AVE R and Quenten RD west of Gerritsen.
Currently
AVE R - west of Gerritsen
B2 - Kings plaza to e 16st street
B31 Gerritsen Beach Bus
Quenten Road
B100
"I suggest the route should go via Ave P instead. You can make a left on Ave P and then make it follow the same format as the former B 7 did via E 16 St. That to me would save some time"
If that saves time that is a good idea. The major flaw with the current B100 bus is the stretch along Kings Highway from Ocean Ave is littered with double parked cars.
Both bus turns off ocean on Quenten Road(current B2/B31) and Kings Highway (B100) could use a turning arrow to improve speed and safety
First of all i pray for your safe return as i do for all the troops in the war zone.
Second- There has been a bus running on Avenue R since 1936 i believe.
Why change it one block away.
You do not need buses on both Avenue R and Quientin Road.
In 1979 when the b-2 operated to Mill Basin after Pioneer ceased operations and before Command started no one objected.
Their is an old saying "If its not broke do not fix it"
Be safe
Thank You
It makes sense to run one service on AVE R and one ON QR.
The main reason is to reduce community opposition of loosing the QR service. The residents along Bedford ave don't want additional crowds of High school students streaming up from Madison HS located on Bedford and Quenten road.
It does not make sense to keep buses operating a block apart.
First of all does Command make any stops on Quientin Road other than Bedford Avenue
If it doesn't forget about service on Quientin Road
Thank You
You would prefer two bus lines run on the same avenue serving the same population then have one bus line run on ave r and one bus line run on Quetin road serving two populations and more specifically allowing the line to drop students directly in front of Madison high school.
Dropping students directly in front of the school warding off the damage large groups of students inflict the block of one family homes along bedford between Ave R and Quenten road would be a bif issue if there was no QR service.
The B31, B2 and B100 are scheduled to arrive and leave E16th street station at aproximatly the same time to pick up Q express service passengers. The line is a subway feeder line with not much of any ridership from point to point within the bus line. If you ride either the B2, B31, or B100 often as I have, once people board at the subway station, there are very few places along the line that people board the bus.
The few exceptions are E16th and AVE R Yeshiva school, Ocean Ave transfer with B49 and express buses, bedford ave/madison HS. Nostrand AVE transfer B44 and express bus.
Removing the B2 from Ave R west of Gerritsen Ave will not significantly increase wait time for riders along that portion of the route because the B31 will pick up the meager demand that exists.
The B2 would resume it's normal route along Ave R once it crosses gerritsen ave an into the neighborhood of marine park.
The line during rush hours will have shorter headways due to the combination of B2/B100 and may even be able to use Artics during the peak of the morning rush.
It is a big deal to have 1000 rowdy teanagers walking past single family homes when they could just as easily run the line down quetin road and avoid the issue. Before anyone tries to make this a racial issue. The large majority of these students are white.
I don't see why they could not add stops along QR other then Bedford if that makes you happy. It is probably not needed.
Then end result would be the MTA would need to run School suppliments at an addtional cost as is done at JHS 278 with the B44
2-If you run services on 2 lines one block apart it will reduce service for Avenue R for passengers between Gerritsen Avenue and East 16th Street for Brighton Station bound passengers.
3-It will require that B-44 Limited make an additional stop on Quientin Road for B-2 passengers
4-School kids walk from Kings Highway to Madison High now and the TA can operate school trips if necessary. I believe that Command operates some PM school trips on the B-100
5- 1000 school kids no not use the B-100 now to go to Madison .
I suggest you get your facts straight and learn the concept of operating a mass transit system. Its to serve the "mass" at the most economic cost possible.
Thank You
I have been riding the B2/B31/B00 Daily for the last 15 years.
Less then 1% of the total ridership comes from passengers boarding west of gerritsen Ave. Your one size fits all thinking does not apply in this case. These bus lines have more in common with express bus routes then they do with the average bus line. As with express bus routes there purpose is to get the riders from there home area to the train station/city passing through areas just because the area is on the way. In fact some B2 ride light not in service from kings highway station back to Kings Plaza during the morning rush.
"1-If no buses currently stop on Quientin Road other than Bedford or Nostrand Avenues its requires that bus stops be installed which means less parking and increased bus stop maintaince hence INCREASED COSTS
"
If the B100 currently does not stop along this stretch it is because there is no demand for the bus to stop along the stretch. If the bus stops are not needed why add them
"2-If you run services on 2 lines one block apart it will reduce service for Avenue R for passengers between Gerritsen Avenue and East 16th Street for Brighton Station bound passengers."
The number of passengers who board in this area are very few. Even with the B2 moving to Quenten road, there will still be 7 buses an hour traveling along this route. One bus per hour fewer then the B3 along the busy Ave U cooridore.
There is currently 14 buses per hour (B2 7 buses an hour, b31 7 buses an hour) that travels along Ave R from Gerritsen ave to Kings highway. This level of service is based on the ridership these buses pick up in there home neighborhoods of Marine Park and Gerritsen beach.
"3-It will require that B-44 Limited make an additional stop on Quientin Road for B-2 passengers"
Why? People seeking the kings highway Q station would get off at Ave R as they currently do and take the B31 which if you would have bothered to llok at the schedule comes at aprox the same time as the B2.
Almost who would wait for the B44 limited would be seeking to transfer to the B2 to get to the subway station
Why? If one live along the sheapshead bay portion of the route they would be taking the B36 the sheapshead bay station.
If they live at Ave U. It is far quicker and one bus to take the B3 to Ave U Q station
If the live between Ave T and Ave R- they walk or take the B44. The limited does not stop at either block
If they live near kings highway and nostrand - they take the kings highway bus to the station, why transfer.
Two block north of kings highway - they take the bus to Flatbush/nostrand 2/5 IRT station.
If you goal is Kings plaza, transfering for the B2 is the longest way to the plaza.
You would take the quicker route which is B44 to B3 at Ave U. Most riders along the B44 would transfer at nostrand and flatbush for the B41 or Q35
"4-School kids walk from Kings Highway to Madison High now and the TA can operate school trips if necessary. I believe that Command operates some PM school trips on the B-100"
Once again you show zero knowledge of the route or neighborhood. The Madison high school students in question are not coming off the train. They are coming from the neighborhoods of Marine Park, Madison and a lesser extent Mill Basin. 35% of the students at madison take either the B2 or B100 from. Yes, students who arrive by train often walk from the QR entrance of the Q to avoid paying half fare.
"5- 1000 school kids no not use the B-100 now to go to Madison ."
Close to a thousand students use the B2 and B100 to get to school. Many of the students have half fare cards and sometimes get driven and walk in good weather. Where I live 100% of the students either get driven or take the bus.
"I suggest you get your facts straight and learn the concept a mass transit system. Its to serve the "mass" at the most economic cost possible"
That is a goods suggestion. The masses of people do not board the B2/B31/ or B100 along the stretch from Gerritsen Ave to E16th street subway station.
As for the economic issue, by moving the B2 to Quentin Road and consolidating it with the B100 you are reducing the overall number of trips on the combined route. This is especially important during off peak hours when the bus rides nearly empty. I rode the B2 to school for 4 years during high school.
The B2 and B100 purpose is
1)Shuttle commuters from Marine Park and Mill Basin to Kings Highway Brighton Express Subway Station
2)Shuttle students from Marine Park and
Although kings plaza is the southern terminal of the B2. Kings plaza is not a major focus of the B2 with only 3 buses an hour during the day midday and on weekends.
Please understand i use to work for the TA many years ago and i understand their thinking.
Thank You
1-The B-2 serves Marine Park and the B-31 serves Gerrittsen Beach with the purpose of bringing residents to the Kings Highway Brighton Express Subway Station
2-The B-100 serves Mill Basin and Marine Park with the purpose of bringing residents to the same subway station
3-By merging the B-2 and B-100 you will still continue to serve the primary passenger area, provide additional service to the passengers without increasing costs. By merging the B-2/B-100 your cost factor remains the same as if the B-2 and B-100 are seperate routes even with the incrased service.
4-By keeping the B-2 on Avenue R you can restore 24 hour service to the area between Gerritsen and Flatbush Aves by running a combined B-2 and B-31 owl service every 60 minuates. Remember the B-100 never operated all night and the TA can improve all night service at no additional cost between Gerritsen and Flatbush. Yes B-31 passengers will have a increase in waiting time.
5-Look at the whole picture. Keep things as simple as possible.
6-What happens to B-2 passengers who use the service between Ocean and Nostrand Aves if the B-2 operates from Quientin Road and the bus makes no stops.
Thank You
Your cost factor goes down due to the reduced number of total buses needed to cover the combined route and still provide needed service. Keep in mind that both the B2 leave and run the route virtually empty from kings highway back to marine park and mill basin during the morning rush.
Even with running 40 ft buses, the total number of buses needed to cover the route will be ruduces with the combined route. Some buses could run light back to mill basin.
Off hours and during the daytime, all the old command runs will be complly elliminated
If you run articulated buses during the morning rush, you can even reduce the total number of overall bus per hour on the combined line to 7, the current headway of the B2. Most people who ride this line know the bus schedule. You see the same people on the same bus virtually every day. If flatbush ever gets any articulated buses, a few could be used during the moning and evening rush.
"4-By keeping the B-2 on Avenue R you can restore 24 hour service to the area between Gerritsen and Flatbush Aves by running a combined B-2 and B-31 owl service every 60 minuates. Remember the B-100 never operated all night and the TA can improve all night service at no additional cost between Gerritsen and Flatbush. Yes B-31 passengers will have a increase in waiting time."
24 hour service on the B2 and B100 is not needed or wanted. What good is 60 min service. No one living in marine park or mill basin is going to wait 60 min for bus when other alteratives exist.
After 9 PM on weekdays and all weekend there is no Q express service.
Riders in the southern part of Marine Park and Mill Basin take the B3 or have a loved one pick them up from the station.
Riders in northern Marine Park take the Kings Highway Bus or have there loved ones pick them up.
"5-Look at the whole picture. Keep things as simple as possible."
Moving the B2 to QR is the simpliest way to combine the route with virtually no valid argument by members of the community. Remember prior to 1990, the B2 was the only service operating on Ave R west of Gerritsen. The B31 went to Ave U station.
"6-What happens to B-2 passengers who use the service between Ocean and Nostrand Aves if the B-2 operates from Quientin Road and the bus makes no stops"
The is no demonstrated demand for people getting off in this area. There is nothing there but private homes. The area where these buses operate is more Long Island then the average brooklyn neighborhood. The command stops at all the main avenues (5 short blocks apart). If someone was going to visit a freind that lived in the area, the person would drive as he/she currently does now. It is just faster and easier.
The average family who lives along these routes has at least 1 car in the family. Many have more then one. Most adults drive. Disable folks get driven by love one's and don't ride the bus. In fact, in all my years riding this line, I have never seen a wheel Chair aboard the B2.
The Average B2/B100 rider also walks one or more blocks to the bus stop. (In my case 2 long and 1 short B2, 3 Long to B100)
My spin: the reporting structure will change, I-F the politians can work out (or already have worked out) the money issues. Other then that changes in routes, grages, etc. will happen in small steps. You've got seniority & parity issues that will slow the process down .... can you say MaBSTOA. Internally is where you are likely to see the most changes, but then none of us will see that < grin >
So, in April we might see one change, and then maybe not.
P.S. don't forget the SI operation by Atlantic Express.
Disclaimer: Speaking for myself here, not for my employeer or any government agency.
You get the idea..
I don't see them in any big hurry to mesh every thing to gather, i.e. it's not like the current owner(s) has shut down & the public is out there standing waiting for a bus to come by.
If the MTA/TA is taking over, they will have things done their way eventually.
The reverse has already been done, in part. The Q32 used to be all OA-TWU; now it's more or less evenly split between OA-TWU and TA-ATU.
First of all when the schedules are made up to TA levels and work rules more drivers are going to be needed so no one will lose their jobs.
What i think will happen is that drivers from NY Bus,Liberty,Queens Surfice,Jamaica Buses and Triboro will go into MABSTOA similar to the Ave B method in senoirity that they were hired by the respective company at the bottom of the MABSTOA list when the company is aborbed.
The Command and Green Line drivers will go to ATU in one division driving the Green Line and Jamaica Bus routes. The Command routes will be given to TWU and the Brooklyn Division.
Thats my speculation only
Thank You
2. Jamaica Buses Inc. is a TWU shop, not ATU as is Green Bus.
Just because its in the contract does not mean it has to be implemented right away or at all.
Yes i know that Jamaica Bus is a TWU shop but reread my posting.
Command which is ATU will be operated by the Brooklyn Division which is TWU
Basically Jamaica Bus and Command are the same size. Its the total jobs that can be switched hence Command's routes can be operated by the TWU and Jamaica Bus by the ATU.
Thank You
And in effect drive up the cost of operating the surface operations and thus cost them in higher taxes.
There is a way for the TWU to move the ATU folks over to their union.
But first why would the TWU care, it's a TA issue. So, I'll bet the TWU will wait for the TA to ask & want something in return for the FAVOR. Then the TWU will have to do all the red tape stuff within the AFL/CIO.
Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen.
NYCDOT has nothing to do with the X23 and X24. Atlantic Express runs them under contract with the State's Economic Development Corporation (that was Rudy's end-run around the "franchise" process).
Atlantic Exp. gets no money from Mayor Mike, so he doesn't care what happens to them. They may end up being the ONLY "private" bus operation in the Big Apple, wouldn't that be something ?
Mayor Mike is doing the right thing for the city. It does not make sense to have two public supported transit systems.
The administrative and oversight cost are just astronomical.
I rather pay the extra salary and bennifits to the drivers and bus maintainers then to extra suits.
This is true. Transit developed (or hired Cubic to develop) the MetroCard program, so it makes sense that Transit should manage the program for all of its participants.
However, providing MetroCard support and listing the X23/X24 on the Staten Island bus map are Transit's only involvement in Atlantic Express' routes.
I don't think that is completely true. The TA provides a lot of back office support, e.g. I'll bet Atlantic Exp. gets it's MC money FROM the TA. I'll also bet they were in contact with the TA about the coming fare increase, i.e. their fareboxes & DC needed to be upgraded too. These are just a couple of examples.
Duly noted.
Since NYCT is a state agency, all decisions concerning it are made far in advance by three guys in a room. Since NYCDOT is also affected, Mayor Bloomberg may be permitted to stand outside that room (while the three guys leave through a side exit).
True, but Pataki, Bruno, and Silver have never seen the inside of a bus, so they have no reason to care about the physical buses. Plus, Silver is still upset about a ticket he once got for parking in the old M8 (Grand Street) terminal stand - AFTER the route had been killed! He'll show Transit no mercy.
A slow transition is best.
For one the MTA can not operate non ADA complient equiptment. Expect some of the NOVA's or Orion Suburbans to make there way onto the NYBS route's
If NYBS riders don;t like them TOUGH. Over time they can get them more MCI's out to NYBS route's
Bill "Newkirk"
NYCT will do either (1) what it has to do, or (2) what it's told to do.
The clasics will most likely not see service with NYCT.
Most likely they will be shifted to another DOT property and replaced with orions until enough MCI's come in. By the the time the last DOT route is absorbed they will be retired.
I don't get it. NYCTA has obviously ordered enough buses to only fill THEIR needs, yet, all of a sudden the Orion VII's and these "mystery" Orions our resident service planners are referring to will not only wipe out hundreds of NYCTA RTS, but hundreds of DOT RTS and Classics as well! Please, let's just fire all of the current TA and DOT people because we have bus fans that can pull buses out of thin air to replace old equipment YET find no reason at all to keep very old and non ADA compliant OLDER equipment, other than for nostalgia purposes! Awesome!
Now, when you all can provide a little specualation on WHEN NYCTA has placed a few additional bus orders, perhaps I'd be a bit more inclined to believe what's going on. And when did this DOT merger go from bus fan dream to reality?
I am sujjesting that current DOT suburban orions get exchanged for NYBS classics as a short term solution to the ADA issue and the fact that NYTA maintance has no parts for clasics and no expertease in maintaining them. There will be a short term bus crunch if NYCT takes over NYBS. Since NYC does not own and will not buy the fishbowls from NYBS some addtional buses from other MTA operations will needed to be put in service over at NYBS.
What will this mean?
In all likleyhood the earliest NYCT will take over NYBS would be Towards the end of April or on May 1st. By this time a good number of orion VII will be on property and additional New Flyers artic's will be on property freeing a few buses that would otherwise be scraped to be sent to a NYTA depot in excahge for some orions suburbans that are currently on local routes.
As for the other DOT route's. New buses will need to be ordered to replace some of there aging fleet.
It is only 50/50 that all routes end in MTA hands. NYBS definatly will. The other's who knows
Not to mention the NYBS crowd who screamed bloody murder when DOT gave NYBS Orion V Suburbans a few years back.
This merger will not come without pain, but the long term bennifits will pay off for both the city and the riding public.
Some Long term bennifits include
reduced administrative costs
More bargining power with bus manufacture's, parts suppliers and fuel suppliers
Lower costs = good for NY
Lets not get on the riders for expecting a certain level of service they were accustomed to. The Orions Suburbans are not the same quality of bus ride as the fishbowls suburbans, classics or MCI.
If all riders would demand that there bus and train service meet a certain level we would have a better run transit system
During the transition period they will have to deal with the orions or Nova's
I got a GMC RTS on the BM4 the other day. It was the ride from hell. Every bump at highway speeds it feels like your insides are going to brake loose
Even if MTA tries to consolidate some of the lines in the outer boroughs, I'd imagine there'd be a lot of noise made about the fare structure on some of the (soon to be) former private carrier lines.
Is there existing Bee-Line service between Getty Square and the Westchester/Bronx border (in the BxM3 corridor) that could be used as an alternative? Also, what is/was the ridership within the Westchester portion of the line?
I brought it to the caller & stopped to speak to another staff member, by the time I was ready to go back downstairs there was the caller & callee getting her phone. Turns out she works across the street from our depot.
Sometimes you enjoy coming to work !
Even if it isn't SOP, it's a good idea from the BO's perspective. Cosmetic damage or anything else that may have happened on the road could be identified, and the proper (underhanded/incognito/CYA) issues corrected before someone else takes the bus, or before another inspects it for damage or other issues.
Also, NYCT has a policy that requires all operators to "inspect their buses for lost and 'suspicious' packages" at every route terminal. FYI.
An PAT operator I know told me that one Sunday, he was working the 500 Highland Park - Bellevue, which is one of only two crosstown routes in the system. It is such a long round trip that usually you only do one trip on it and then either go to lunch or go home. Well, this was the first part of the day for this operator. He picked up this guy at around 7:30 a.m., just another passenger. When he finished his trip on the 500, around 10:30, he returned to Ross division for lunch. After an hour long lunch or so, the operator returned to his Orion V which was parked in the yard. He started out for downtown Pittsburgh where he would begin his first outbound 12A, the dreaded Shopper bus which hits every mall and shopping center in the heart of the North Hills of Pittsburgh. Half way into his first outbound on the 12A, a little after noon, this passenger came up to the front of the bus. He looked sort of familiar to the operator and the man asks, 'When will we be in Bellevue?' The operator informed the man that the 12A bus goes nowhere near Bellevue, 'you must have caught the wrong one.' The passenger asked, 'This is the 500 isn't it? I could have sworn I got on the 500?' It turned out, this guy slept through the entire trip of the 500, the lunch break at the garage and half of the 12A! What a nap!
While it's a nice idea and concept for operators to conduct inspections of their buses after trips or upon returning to the garage, some systems don't require it or enforce it and we all know many people won't do things that aren't required of them. Sometimes, even if it is required, they still won't do it. One operator was so shocked by a passenger who was still on her pitch black bus late at night as she returned to the garage, she almost crashed it into a guardrail on the Fort Dusquene Bridge!
e.g. mid-day there's a small crew that cleans up after those AM folks who leave their papers, coffee cups, etc. on the bus. So most operators check to see that the bus got cleaned besides the SOP mechanical check out.
Disclaimer: I'm not part of that department, so the foregoing is just what I have observed.
Needless to say, all was fine, even with the B/O. Maybe a bit too much. Many times, she caught herself talking with passengers or collegues along Northern involving pointless or asinine issues. What is the limit other fellow B/O's set when driving? A too little can be a problem, so can too much.
What's the problem? Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself with the idle chit-chat of others? If you really want to say something, instead of posting here, tell the idiot hammering away on the cell phone to shut the hell up and show some respect for everyone else aboard- nobody cares about your pointless conversation!
;-)
Needless to say, I don't care anymore. Thank god I don't ride the 66 often... So much for your humor. :P
What I notice on the B3 is that bus #2 and #3 in some case end up being ahead of schedule because bus one picks up it's riders bus #2 would ordinary;y pibk up. the end result is riders who ended up on bus #2 or #3 after waiting long for the bus end up waiting a few blocks before the line monitors check point to avoid the driver being early.
A properly deployed Automated bus monitoring and tracking system that also included a weight monitor information would allow the centrally monitored bus operation a clear picture of where all buses in their territory are on route and what is there load factor.
This system is far cheaper to operater the the current ineffecient system of bus trackers sitting on street corners. It would also save fuel, reduce bus bunching, inprove rider satisfaction and allow transit operation to better schedule service
There's not even going to be enough Orion VII's to get rid of the current 1987-88 RTS fleet. Do you think the TA would take care of "stepchildren" before it takes care of themselves? Please. Let's stop living in a dream world. You guys compalin about the TA enough as is, but now, it's "magically" this savior here to rescue the downtrodden citzens of New York from the dreaded and oppressive 1980's RTS! Ha!
The MTA wastes money with it's poor management style. It is easier to police and reform one organization then it is to police 7 separate companies.
To tell you the truth up until recently when The city concil got on command line about there schedule on the B100 I prefered the B100
When the bus would fill up to capasity at kings highway it would leave regardless of what the schedule would say. The B2 on the other hand would sit there until the schedule leaving time whether it had room for more riders or not.
As I've already noted in a related thread, the decision has already been made by three guys in a room in Albany. When Pataki/Bruno/Silver feel like sharing the details, they will.
B13- 90'RTS #8006
Q55- 96'RTS #9160
Sorry to burst your seemingly large bubble.
B13#9147
One of my 'rare' BusTalk appearances.
B13#5065
Get ready for snow!!!!!!!!
B13#9578
-Tyler-
Wouldn't it be a sight if a Gillig surpassed the Fishbowl one day as the longest production run of an American transit bus?
-F.
The Orion V coaches which have a slanted drivers window are the best for not having glare problems. I've heard a few operators complain about the glare in the Flxible Metro's even though they do have a slanted drivers window. The Classics don't have much glare at all even though they don't have a slanted drivers window, but, they do have a big partition behind the operator with a schedule cut out holder that is built into the side of it, which blocks a lot of light from behind.
-F.
-F.
I visited the Phoenix area a few weeks back and was pleasantly surprised to see at least two MAN artics still running in service. More surprising were the three RTS buses I saw in service in the brief time I spent at the Downtown Transportation Center one weekday morning. Given the fact that Valley Metro had received over 75 new NABI's and El Dorado's since I had last been in Phoenix about 9 months back, I couldn't believe MAN's and RTS's can still be found there.
-F.
Also Rutgers University has a few ex-Seattle MANs, but I'm not sure if they're trying to unload them, IIRC a while back here I heard that Academy Busses liked them.
-F.
-F.
-F.
It it proves to be successful these buses would save NYCT a fortune. The composite frames (similar to what used on all airbus and new boeing planes) is so light that it can use smaller engines saving tons of fuel without the added cost and weight of Hybrid technology.
Anyone who try's to tell me runing artics during overnights does not cost more then running a 40 ft bus is crazy. Lighter weight - fuel savings = $$$ could be spent somewhere else.
I would think it will take quite awhile to get the older buses replaced on the Prvate lines - Does anyone know if anything is on order for them from DOT? I can say that many of the MTA RTS buses up for retirement would still be better than some of the 600 & 700's at Triboro. I guess the real question is the money and how long it takes for a new order of buses to be placed and how long it takes to deliver. As far as Triboro goes I think the best way to go would be to scrap the 600 & 700s - Replace them with the Orion suburbans and get an order for about 60 MCI's for express service.
The other way this thing could play out is Private Line oder buses get transferred throughout the system and each depot takes a few in exchange for newer buses to get some kind of a balance.
AS far as the drivers? Will they all stay within the current depots or will they be moved around? Also do they meet MTA requirements as well?
Fishbowl 2525...
That movie is so great! It covers every mode of major trasport: cars, buses, planes, trains, but they seemed to have forgotten boats/ships.
-F.
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One of them had a driver station mounted on the roof -- above the normal driver station -- so that a driver could drive thebus from there, and the cameras could shoot Sandra Bullock in the normal driver position, as well as show passengers -- yet not show the person doing the real driving! Steering wheel, accelerator, brake, seat, and instruments on the roof. Strange but true.
The owner of all the buses was kind enough to allow me (and a friend who also drives at the TA twhere I do) to check out all his equipment and photograph it....all he asked was that I did NOT reveal the location of his yard so all the goobers would be out there hounding him.
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Chuck Greene
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And the guy that did the bus stuff for "Speed" said she was an utter B---- around the filming sets!
I guess what she has in looks she doesn't have in personality....
-F.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Say, I wonder if she did any of the actual driving on the bus, or if it was all stunt crew?
-F.
This doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Even if they can see smaller numbers, isn't it just a lot easier to see the HUGE numbers? They can tell buses apart a lot quicker that way - and what bus fan looking out a window above the second floor doesn't appreciate those numbers?!
Jim
Due to some tragic events at home....I can not spend a lot of time on this. I'm doing this now because I may not be back on for a while....a LONG WHILE! So, I just going to post the numbers. You guys can make the distinction of which bus goes with which depot. If you have any questions about this then just e-mail me at NYCTMCID4500@aol.com I'm sorry about the textre of this message. Here they are:
189 (repowered), 540, 863, 921, 934, 1895, 2002, 2177, 2205, 2816, 2914, 4871, 5071, 8199, 8205, 8229, 8232, 8249 (ALL 1990 bus are repowered), 8461 (repowered), 8660, 8668, 8763, 8784-8785, 8791, 8793-8794, 8804, 9493, 9504, 9511, 9612
Command Bus Company:
422, 460, 4923
Queens Surface Corporation:
576, 580
Westchester Bee Line Buses:
901
Sorry about this. I'll redo this at a later time. Have a nice weekend!
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug...Music Is My Drug
--AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
AMI
The present estimate is over 120 units.
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Why create more bureacracy?
Thank You
Part of the justification for the merger is to remove redundant costs. Creating another OA with it's own management and admnistrative costs is flat out stupid. Deal with the issue one time and be done.
The easiest and best way to go is to grant a one time exception and grant employees at the DOT companies civil service status. If you want to cover all the bases have them take the exam.
Maintain seniority at the depot the drivers work at.
On the MTA seniority list, grant former DOT workers 1 year for every two worked if they want to move to another depot. This would not unduly harm drivers at other MTA depot and allow the mta not to have to worry about deploying it's staff. If you look at most long time employees would not want to transfer to another depot anyway.
Says who?
Here is the answer:
IT IS ALL UNKNOWN AT THIS TIME.
But while you're persistant to discuss the issue, please remember these important facts as they relate to the issue today:
1- You cannot have TWU members operating from an ATU depot.
2- You cannot have ATU members operating from a TWU depot.
3- With respect to the title of Bus Operator, you cannot have non-civil-service employees working in a civil service titled position.
4- With respect to the title of Bus Operator, you cannot have civil service employees working in a non-civil service titled position.
5- You cannot have any Queens or Staten Island Division NYCTA Civil Service Bus Operators working outside their home depots (barring shuttles and the like).
6- Neither TA nor OA TWU Bus Operators may work in Queens Division (unless transferred in a permanent sense). The above is barring subway shuttle work, where all rules applicable to the home depot/union remain in effect.
7- An ATU route may not be operated by a TWU employee.
8- A TWU route may not be operated by an ATU employee.
The exceptions to the abocve are mutually-agreen upon implementations of emergency situations between the NYCTA and the TWU/ATU division(s) involved.
The biggest problems to the solution of a seamless consolidation of all surface metro area bus operation is the contract under which each of the employees work, under each given title. In all likelihood, ATU may be lost in either it's entirety, or in small divisions as the progress towards a seamless RBC is established. But for now, for the purpose of immediate discussion, the above rules will apply to the TA/OA consolidation; notwidthstanding the CS/NCS issues and seniority issues currently being debated/discussed and negotiated upon within the TWU itself.
As a sidebar, it should be noted that the ultimate goal of the MTA is to first consolidate OA and TA. Then the 7 private lines under the MTA umbrella and finally to disassociate NTCT alltogether creating a NON CIVIL SERVICE entity including all metro area regional bus operators forming "MTA Buses".
This final entity would have the right to strike, as they would no longer be governed by civil service law (as the law stands today).
Interesting.
1- You cannot have TWU members operating from an ATU depot.
2- You cannot have ATU members operating from a TWU depot.
3- With respect to the title of Bus Operator, you cannot have non-civil-service employees working in a civil service titled position.
4- With respect to the title of Bus Operator, you cannot have civil service employees working in a non-civil service titled position.
5- You cannot have any Queens or Staten Island Division NYCTA Civil Service Bus Operators working outside their home depots (barring shuttles and the like).
6- Neither TA nor OA TWU Bus Operators may work in Queens Division (unless transferred in a permanent sense). The above is barring subway shuttle work, where all rules applicable to the home depot/union remain in effect.
7- An ATU route may not be operated by a TWU employee.
8- A TWU route may not be operated by an ATU employee. "
I don't understand why the public puts up with this crap. All it does is cost them a higher fare, crapyer service and higher taxes.
It's a discrace that the bus opertions can not be operating in the best interst of the riding public. The whole purpose of operating mass transit.
They appear to hurt the average bus driver as much as the riding public. They trap the bus driver to the depot they work at. If you start working for the MTA and live in brooklyn. Get married to a Queens girl. Why not be able to take a job at a queens depot.
Senority should be to the company you work for not the location
It will indead be interesting. In my case the merger would just mean older buses on my route out of UP. Plus the loss of clean air CNG buses along the B100.
Hehe...it rhymes:)
If the operators were given a set amount of money to operate the service, the structure would have been streamlined many moons ago.
Also the fact the city and state spends $150 million on operating expenses and buys the privates there equiptment and builds them depots and the privates turn around and look for another handout to bail them out for underfuunding there employees retirement system is a crime
First off, I take FOUR transport modes everyday to get to school and it takes LESS time than if I were to drive straight to school from home.
#1- My girlfriend drops picks me up and drops me off at the Gwinnett County Transit (GCT) P&R lot.
#2- I take express bus #103 to downtown. The bus leaves EXACTLY on time (by my watch) everyday. They have overflow buses that leaves about a minute or two after the scheduled bus. GCT has been an instant success since service started less than two years ago, so every bus, even the overflows, leave full. If I see that I'm going to miss my usual bus, I don't even bother looking at a schedule to see the next bus, they depart often enough so you don't need to know. Since it take about 45 to an hour to get downtown, GCT frowns upon having standees and they do a great job balancing the schedule so that every bus leaves full to nearly full, but no one is standing up.
#3- After I sleep for 30 minutes or so and we arrive downtown, I get off and transfer to MARTA at Peachtree Center. The transfer is free because all five Metro Atlanta transit systems have an agreement to allow customers to transfer for free between the systems. The trains are frequent and a train is there within a minute of me getting to the platform. I ride northbound two or three stops to either North Avenue or Midtown stations, depending where at school I need to go.
#4- If I use North Avenue, I transfer to the #13 bus. I have never waited more than 10 minutes for the bus to come. Most of the time, I wait less than three minutes. In the little time that I wait, I can observe the five other bus routes that use this busway, and everyday they all run like clockwork: The #45 arrives before my bus, but my bus arrives and departs before the #45. The #2 already is waiting when I come up the escalator to the busway and as the #2 is departing, the next #2 arrives. I don't see the other routes during my short wait. After all the passengers get on, we immediately depart and I get off when we reach Georgia Tech.
I if use Midtown, I can ride either the $12 or the #37 since they both run down 10th St and I get off on that street. Either one of the buses or both are usually already at the atation when I come out of the subway. The #12 departs right after all the passengers get and the #37 waits for a few more minutes at the station. If both the #12 and #37 there, I'll get on the #12 because I know it'll leave first.
Total travel time from my home to school: 50 minutes (no matter which station I use). If I drove it would take 1 hour to 1.5 hours.
For the return trip, I almost always take the #12 or #37, but sometimes I will walk to North Av, whatever is closer. I don't look at the schedules for the 12 or 37, because they run often enough that I don't wait that long even if I miss a bus. On days where I get out of class at 4:00, I walk to 10th St and the #12 will arrive at EXACTLY 4:05. Since the buses are usually crowded and I have to stand near the front, I recognize some of the B/Os that work in the afternoon. There are two of them that are cool as hell. I've talked to them about all sorts of things.
When I get to Midtown, what I see everyday proves to me that MARTA rail runs superbly. When I'm on the southbound platform waiting, a northbound will arrive. And as that train is pulling to a stop, I'm able to see a southbound train's headlights and as the southbound train stops at the platform, the northbound train starts to depart. This happens EVERYDAY, and I ride the train within a span of three hours in the afternoons. No matter the time, the trains arrive at Midtown in the exact order I described above. How many subways can make a claim like that?
When I get to Peachtree Center, I go up and wait for GCT #103. I don’t bother reading the schedule because I have never waited for more than 10 minutes for the 103. Because of the many people who are waiting for GCT buses at both Five Pints and Peachtree Center, they will bring the overflow buses and make their first stop at Peachtree Center instead of Five Pints. This is so because a bus departing from Five Points will have less than 5 seats empty and there are maybe 15 people waiting at any given moment, so it gives the Peachtree Center riders a chance to get on an empty bus.
I get to the end of the line and I wait for somebody to pick me up. I could take local bus #40, but it stops about 2 miles from my apartment, so somebody giving me a ride is faster. But if nobody can pick me up, at least I know that the #40 will do good enough job. People living in Gwinnett are starting to demand GCT service to their areas, so hopefully a route by my apartment will be created soon.
So in conclusion, Atlanta transit RULES and every city would be lucky to have a system that runs like clockwork like MARTA and GCT.
Oh well, at least 99% of the time, everything works perfectly. MARTA bus and my girlfriend were on time :-)