I came across an interesting article about Seattle Washington's bus locator and bus information internet site.
Article on Seattle Bus Information System
And here is a link to the actual site:
mybus internet site
Happy Lunar New Years to any Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese poster here (as well as anybody else who celebrates it).
Hey, what year is it there now...5207? If so, you're getting into WMATA NABI artics...LOL!
-F.
Gong Hey Fa Choy to you too. I am a Chinese American btw.
P.S. Hey aznboy, have you gotten your Hong Bao yet? ;-)
Gung Hey Fat Choy! I'm not Chinese but did go for Dim Sum today and was treated to a Lion dance at the restaurant. BTW, the Chinese Lunar New Year of the Sheep is 4701, one of FP's TMC RTS's...LOL.
It's a Dragon dance :) Any firecrackers??
I was originally going to say Dragon but reading Newsday they listed it as Lion dances. Maybe Newsday has it wrong.
No, there weren't any firecrackers. This took place inside a restaurant. I didn't hear any outside before they entered. The performers did have a drum and a metal gong (don't know the actual name). BTW, I did get to feed the Dragon lucky money. :)
Oh yes, it's my only month of the year when I actually have money to burn :)
I would say the same thing to my friend max. He's Korean but his parents are not so they don't celbrate this new year
Trev
Hey Guys,
I am working on a show for Lifetime and they need a bus that would represent El Paso.It involves a reinactment of a shootout on a local bus there that happened awhile back. I have no specific dates of the incident but possibly someone from the area may know about this. What I need to know is what types of buses and what paint schemes are used by El Paso. Any info is appreciated.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
I don't know much about the history of the El Paso bus fleet, but in more recent years, they have had RTS-08s, standard-floor New Flyers, Orion Vs, and even TMC Citycruisers. The system is called Sun something, Sun Metro or Sun Tran or something like that.
Did anybody happen to catch the Jimmy Kimmel show last night?
Well they had Super Dave Osbourne on and he was going to perform a stunt of hopping over 10 buses on a motorcycle. All of the buses had names on top of them. I forget the names on them though. There were Fishbowls, Flexibles and a few RTS buses. There may have been a New Flyer and an Onion or 2 there as well. Anyways, he was waiting for a so called Survivor bus then he could perform the stunt. Instead the survivor bus arrived late and "supposedly drove through" Super Dave. It was a Flexible Metro B that "supposedly" hit Dave. And the worst part was that the bus had a truck sounding horn. The stunt was never performed-kinda as a joke that Kimmel's staff were idiots.
Soem nice looking buses there though-could've sworn I saw an RTS in an MTA NYCT Scheme.
#9607 Q32
Wow....too funny! MAN, I am missing some stuff if they are showing Flxibles on there...I always liked Jimmy Kimmel when he was doing "The Man Show" with Adam Corolla. Do they still have that gig?
Also, due to ABC affiliate ownership rifts, we have ad spots here for the Kimmel show, but they sadly come with a disclaimer that reads "SHOW WILL NOT BE VIEWED IN THIS AREA". What a pooper. :(
-F.
Not around NYC. It premiered after the Super Bowl.
That does stink that you can;t watch it. It's sure better than some of those other shows.
It was sure good to see some Flexibles and Fishbowls in other areas besides the ones at NYBS here in NYC(Not that I do not like them, I love those buses).
#1489 BXM7
Yeah...good to see Flxes and Fishbowls ANYWHERE, really. I really wish we could get Kimmel here. Then again, people in hell really wish they had ice water. Oh well.
is any one chating tonight? in #chathamsquare!
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!
Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC (reccommended) but do not know how to access the room using it click the link and then click on "How to get mIRC". If you want to get mIRC, follow the same instructions. Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
Oh yeah, a real thrill ride!!
Poor fresh pond depot getting more garabage 84/85 series. Why wouldn't these buses got to Flatbush? or even UP. Fresh pond need NEW,NEW buses not some other depot garabage. Will Brooklyn get some new buses???????
Brooklyn is getting new buses, they will be going to Gleason depot. 8400/8500 series buses are not garbage and are not needed in Flatbush. Now how about dispensing with the same questions over and over that have already been answered numerous times and contribute something for a change.
BIG AL
Thank you BIG AL! JG is the ONLY Brooklyn Depot that is getting new buses. And those will be the Orion 7 CNGs. When those come in, should be soon.
As far as Flatbush getting buses-they may get some oddball 8400s from JG but other than that they will not get anything.
UP they are not getting anything. PERHAPS-when FP gets 8518-8566 and some other buses that you may see some 1987 TMC RTS going to UP for the time being. Other than that-I doubt they will get any buses as well.
#8460 B61
Speaking of UP. Many of the Nova Suburbans Have already had thier soft seats replaced at least once
Look at the back of the seats. Originally there was a zipper that ziped half way up the back of the seat. slowly but shorely the zippers are disapearing.
The seat backs are being redone. This is not cheap. It's time the TA seriouly conciders hard seating these buses unless they plan to shift them over to the privates for express service once they take them over
BTW Quill is using their Suburbans on the M27 AND M50. I've seen 135 9276 and 9342 there as of this week. Seats seemed to look the same.
#9342 m27
And they love to place them on the M98 as well, they usually spend some quality time on the M30 and the express lines...
Carlton
Transit Is My Drug
Hey I wounder if anybody saw 140 at MJQ?? My good old 140 needs to see me someday! :)
I thought your bus was 9288?
#9288 Q46
Makes sense on the M98, the crowds on that route aren't so bad they can't handle a suburban coach.
Interestingly enough, 4401 seems to be making the rounds here on routes where it probably shouldn't run. Saw it on the J3 in September and on Wednesday, it was signed for the Z2, two routes that really don't need suburban coaches.
And the fact that the M98 is like an express line, only it's a local line.
if they are redoing the express seats to help with the ripped situation-it should be done ASAP on some of the Ulmer Park express buses. I was on #9332 last week, back seats were ripped. What a !@#$ shame.
Did anyone else besides me see this title and think "Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!" ?!?
JD
Don't bash the 8400's/8500's, I rode the 8565 on the (L) shuttle today, and it was a smooth most of the way, except on Flushing Av. of course. FP can't get new buses, believe me it isn't going to happen.
Fresh Pond CAN'T get new buses???
There is no physical impediment to new buses being assigned to Fresh Pond (except for CNG ones since there are no CNG fueling stations there). It's simply a management decision, for whatever reason.
David
FP COULD get new buses but they are NOT, they will continue to get hand me downs, along with the other Brooklyn depots except JG.
Damn, I miss the original engines of 8565 & 8566.
Since 126 street depot is getting artic. Which bus series will be leaving 126 and where will it go?
I see the calendar has flipped over. Here's "madision"'s monthly 126th Street artic question.
David
LOL! Who knows, maybe he's Busfan with a new handle ;-).
Who knows and who cares? Please stop wasting time and words on this board!!!
If you check the archives, you will probably see this question answered already.
#5518 M15
[Which bus series will be leaving 126....]
Simple - the series (or individual buses) chosen by the Department of Buses.
- - - - -
[...and where will it go?]
Wherever the Department of Buses sends it.
- - - - -
See a commonality there? The fleet assignment people within Transit's Department of Buses do not answer to any specific bus fan (unless that bus fan happens to be the Chief Maintenance Officer).
Here's a thought: Keep an eye on the 126th Street fleet, note which buses arrive and which buses go (and where), and then inform us of your findings. That way, you can contribute ANSWERS instead of just questions!
While working a ridecheck on M9 (1/31/2003) saw most of oldest buses running on M9, M14, M21 & M22.
M9 some 9400's & 8400's, #4362,#8231 non-power bus & i had #4877, #9491 & #5201 went out of service because of long brake.
M14 #3469, #4159, #4163, #4165, #4327, #4546 and non-power buses #8198, #8203-#8204.
M21 #4019, #4045, #4873, #4883 & some 9400's
M22 some 8200's & 8400's.
DNJ
Hmm I wonder why? Can you say repower FLOP?
The repowering process with the TMC and Orions has to be 1 of the worst ideas that the MTA hsa ever come up with. They were better off leaving these buses alone.
#8231 Q32
By what definition(s) is the repowering program a "flop?"
And the MTA didn't come up with the idea of repowering the buses. It was a(n unfunded) mandate from the Governor, in response to screams from certain neighborhoods that have bus depots about "dirty diesels."
David
I'd rather have dirty fast buses than clean slow ass junks that can't break 35 mph on the Expressway.
Well whoever came up with this program, it is horrible.
#8374 Q46
I agree with you there. NYCTA are dreadfully slow.
Wayne
Some NYCT buses have had their top speed limited by a governor (a device, not George Pataki) to prevent speeding. It's not a function of the engine being used or whether it's a retrofit -- it's a matter of policy.
David
The new engines are capable of going faster than 35 mph. All it takes is about 2 minutes to reprogram the computer (DDEC) to reset top speed. BTW the repowered buses seem to have decent takeoff.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
Have Bx25 start at Fordham Center with Bx28 while Bx26 starts at Paul-205. Bx25 will run every 10-15 minutes for 2 hours each way(peak direction). 6:30-9:30 AM 4:30-7:30 PM
I was going through some transit slides last night, and I came across a few shots I took from an Amtrak train in 1982 or so of a NYC Transit bus yard in the Bronx. It was located next to the rail line's approach to the Hell Gate Bridge, and was close to the water. The yard had a bunch of junk GMC and Flxible New Look buses, but also some buses lined up that could have been in service. Can anyone tell me more about this facility? Was it an active bus garage, or a storage facility?
Jim D.
Walnut ?
I was thinking the same thing... it's the only thing possible that it could be...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Yes, that was definitely Walnut. This facility has been used as a base shop and as a regular depot. I remember in the early when NYCTA borrowed the WMATA new-looks... they were taken to Walnut first and I think they were prepped for NYCTA service there. The scene in the Bronx during the early 80's were Bronx routes were assigned to Coliseum, Kingsbridge and West Farms. When West Farms depot closed around 1983/4 it's buses went to Walnut which then operated as a regular depot. A few years later Gun Hill was built/opened and the old Kingsbridge closed (and demolished). At this time most of KB's buses and routes went to the newly opened Gun Hill. A bit later Coliseum closed and the new Kingsbridge opened. Kingsbridge rec'd the buses from Walnut which closed for good soon afterward.
Wayne
Thanks for the info.
Jim D.
Today, I finally got out of the house long enough to do a major ride on SEPTA. This time I tried out the bus replacements for the Regional Rail trains during the "Rail Power" project. This project is the replacement of rail cantenary between 30th st and Suburban Station. SEPTA must use shuttle buses between these two stations, and suspend train service on the Airport Line (R1).
My ride started at Market East station. The buses used on the R1 replacement service are Neoplan Artics. I'm quite surprised that the buses are almost filled up when they depart from Market East. Since they charge railroad fares, there is a Conductor that takes fares just like they do on the train. Passengers do not put any money in the farebox, they give the cash or ticket or show the pass to the conductor. The ride took only 15 minutes from Market East, to the first stop at the Airport, because the bus uses I-95 from downtown to the Airport. That is usually the same amount of time between 30th st and the Airport on the train, so not much is lost in the transition between bus and train.
At the airport, you see a variety of buses, outside of the variety SEPTA provides, (NABIs, NEOPLANS, NEW FLYERS, ELDORADOS). They range from some RTS's, NOVA LFS, Gillig regular and Low Floors, and US Airways 3-door NEOPLAN low-floors used to shuttle people from their commuter planes to regular flights.
Tommorrow, I will take my camera down there to take some pics. I should get them developed by the end of the month, and I will post them on my two Yahoo! sites, BUS-O-RAMA, and PHillyAreaTransit.
By the way, is there anyway I can post them on this site? Can anyone explain how to do this? I would love to share these pictures with my fellow Bus-Talkers.
See you dudes soon
Mark De Loatch
Mdlbigcat@comcast.net
P.S. I'm sorry but when it comes to picture taking, I'm stuck in the 20th century. I hope to get a digital camera soon.
what do you mean by posed pjotos here?
I don't think you can upload it on here
This evening, I've spent my time on the (L) shuttle. However this is the longest (L) shuttle I've seen, it there was A LOT of buses. The shuttle went from Bway Junct. all the way to Lorimer St.. I made a list of over 70 buses!!!(from FP, ENY, FLA, JG, UP, and 126St). My observations took place between 6:00 P.M. and 10:00 P.M.. Here's what I saw:
Note: Buses with a star(*) next to it are the ones I rode.
Fresh Pond
4698
4701
4716
4718
4719
4732
4740
8132
8167
9158
9163
9173
9596
9600
East New York
4421
8118
8123
8348
8907*
8927
9032
9040
9059
9064
4946
4986
5230
5233
Flatbush
8045
8146
8428
8433
9387
9394
9396
5084
5090
5096
5100*
5105
5119
5123
Jackie Gleason
4646
4651
8457
8521
8527
8543
8550
8565*
Ulmer Park
4763
4867
7532
7534
9087
9090
9098*
9099
9296
9304*(awesome ride)
9315
9318
126 Street
8186
8195
8213
8478
9191
9211
9217*(very crowded)
9226
5036
5038
5040
I any of you wonder how I saw all of these #'s in the dark, lets just say my eyes let nothin' go by.
Q55- RTS #9147
Damn you know what, I may ride the shuttle later on today, I want to go so bad. I knew this was going to be a huge GO so I plan on going today. I went on the shuttle bus between Myrtle Av & B'way Junction last week, saw about 8-10 buses but I'll have my pen & paper ready to take down bus numbers :-). Oh next week, shuttle buses replace 2 & 5 trains between 149 St/GC and East 180 St; I'll be riding that too that will be BIG; express and local shuttle buses. BTW Ridgewood, is there a express L shuttle bus?
An express (L) shuttle bus? Not that I know of. Although the 9304 did feel like an express because it barely picked up any people, and it zoomed through Bushwick & Williamsburg like nothing. It caught up to the bus in front of us, the 5105.
I didn't get home until 2AM last night, so I didn't have a chance to post my day trip Pam and I took to NYC for my birthday. Amtrak had the buy one ticket and the companion goes free, so we took advantage of that and arrived at Penn Station around 10:50AM or so. Of course, this is when I find out from Pam's friend about the awful Space Shuttle accident. I tried not to let it put a damper on anything, but it hit us in a weird way because two weeks ago when I was in Orlando at MGM, we could see it taking off and we have pictures of it. So, now I don't know how I can look at those pictures and not feel so bad. Its such a beautiful sight to see it take off and I hope the space program doesn't go backwards too far.
Anyway, took the 1 to Times Square, rode the ferris wheel at Toys R Us. Told the ticket person it was my b-day and they gave me this hat to wear that looked like a big birthday cake. Thankfully, we didn't end up in the Barbie car. I gave that one to the little girl behind us and we took the Tonka truck instead! Then, we took the M6 to FAO's. I don't remember the bus number. I know it was a 95xx. Then we walked down 5th Ave. and eventually walked over to 7th and took M6 5200 to SoHo. Did stuff there and ate in Little Italy and took the M6 8205 back up and we walked over to Grand Central and wandered around the transit store for awhile. Then, I decided we should go to the South Street Seaport and we took M15 9213 down there. 7038 passed us near Chinatown and I was able to peak in that bus as it passed us and noticed the gray and blue cushioned seats. I'm sure everyone up there has seen them a million times, but for me it was a first.
Then, coming back uptown, got M15 5053 and then walked down to Times Square again and then eventually took the 1 back to Penn Station and took the 9:50 train back to DC and got off at New Carrollton and took the Orange Line home. We were going to take the 8:50, but the train before that broke down and all passengers were being put on that one so we figured it was going to be a little more crowded. So, we just sat in the waiting area at Penn playing Uno for awhile and then it was finally time to end the real fun day we had. We made good use of our fun passes there, that's for sure.
I did see an arctic on the M15, but didn't get the number as it was going down Second Ave. while we were in between First and Second.
I think I have to take a business trip up there again in March, so I hope to do some more fun bus trips while I'm there.
Ok it's really past about time for this -- based on observations made between 12/23 and last weekend, a total of four rides:
Equipment:
-Thomas Dennis/Orion SLF 200 (*Ridden 3952, 3954)
*Stop Request Buttons mounted to stanchions w/bell cord at window midline (Pic
*Blue "ADA" stop request lights mounted above ADA benches (Pic)
*Yellow, ribbed stanchions (Pic)
*LED Destination Signs, most likely by Luminator (Pic)
*Clever Devices Stop Announcer, large LED sign mounted below "STOP REQUEST" sign
*GFI Genfare Odyssey Revenue Center (new WMATA fareboxes)
*AmericanSeating standard fiberglass seats (model 6468) w/carpeted upholstery
*Full glass modesty panels w/"glazing" on bottom 1/3rd portion
*All "top-tip" windows except @ destination sign
*Emergency egress at all windows but destination sign and the two rearmost windows
*Driver-operated self-opening rear door (*new to WMATA)
*Q-Straint Wheelchair Tiedowns at two 3-seat fold-up benches on street side of coach
*ThermoKing Roof A/C
*Two single seats atop street side front wheel well (Pic)
*Fire extinguisher between these seats
*"storage bin" at curb side wheel well
*Exterior white LED cluster @ front door, similar to that on WMATA Neoplans
*Rear "roof" turn lights are red instead of amber
*Ricon extending ramp at front door
*"Reading lights" above exit doors
*Standard incandescent turn signals on front of coach
*NO BIKE RACKS!!!
Routes
*26E loops between East Falls Church station, George Mason Square (Broad St-VA7 and Washington St), City Hall, and State Theater (Washington St. & Park Avenue).
*26W route starts at West Falls Church, George Mason Middle/Sr. High, West End Shopping Center, Jefferson School/Rec Center, and Winter Hill
*26A route starts at East Falls Church w/stops @ Eden Center, George Mason Square, Falls PLaza, West Falls Church, City Hall, and State Theater
Public Acceptance
*On all four GEORGE trips I have taken since the service started, I have seen people standing on sidewalks waving to the bus as we passed. I even saw one guy getting out of his car waving to the bus.
*While ridership seems to be low, passengers enjoy the service
Eh, host does not allow linking to images, please stand by until I find another solution
I had the same problem , I can't open your "pics", even if I do a
"Save Target As". Anybody have any ideas, I would love to see your "pics".
Chuck Greene
Linking to images is blocked by my host, unfortunately. If you want to see them email me or send me an IM to TECsBrain on AIM, tristancunn@hotmail.com on MSN, tristancu on Yahoo or 71600079 on ICQ.
I found the GEORGE photo allery from the official City of Falls Church web site. Some of the pics are of VIPs, but there are a few good shots of the bus itself. (BTW, the headsign is in fact a Luminator Horizon.)
Thanks ctrabs...I've talked to the driver in one of those pics, really great person.
My pics are now uploaded at http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/pics, filenames are the same as in first post. Also for those interested there is a file odysseybox.jpg of the new Odyssey Revenue Centers being tested by WMATA.
Very cool photos. That destination sign ROCKS! I LOVE it when the letters run from side to side. I noticed the "Metro" logo on the farebox...is the Falls Church system part of WMATA, or is the farebox leased or surplused from them? Just curious.
-Fred
I guess since the buses are stored at WMATA, they are using their fareboxes so the Smart Trip card can also be used. Those new fareboxes suck! Between that stupid bell that goes off when someone puts in a penny and the fact that you have to put the coins in one at a time or it gets jammed is a real pain. The box itself looks like a shrunken mailbox.
Oh, is that the "SmartBox"? I HATE those lousy things. We have those suck buckets on all of our buses now, and we are stuck with them as the company went out of business and we are required by contract, bid, or whatever to keep them for another 10 years. They jam up constantly, which causes traffic holdups, late buses, and general chaos.
What's more, most times they must be covered up, and the money is to be dropped into a hinged metal box on the side should the electronic bill and coin slots mess up, and drivers have to look to see that the right fare is dropped in so the TA doesn't get screwed out of revenues. Some drivers don't pay attention when you drop it in, and I had one B/O get rude with me when this happened, stating that she didn't believe I dropped my dollar in with the quarter. I was so frustrated, I said "Look, if you don't believe me, I'll drop ANOTHER dollar in there!". Then she finally backed down and let me on.
No loss to me...if nothing else, it brings them another buck closer to scrapping those crappy boxes one day. :)
-F.
Let's get the farebox terminology straight, here.
Flxible, I have a feeling the boxes at your system are the AGENT SmartBoxes. If that's the case, then yes, I agree - they are crap in its purest form. AGENT boxes replaced trusty GFI CentsABills in Ann Arbor in 1999, then finally in 2001 after two years of malfunctioning and chronic jamming, we ripped them out and put the GFIs back.
WMATA's are different. They are GFI Odyssey fareboxes. I have not had any experience with them, but I believe several early customers are pleased with them. They at least are somewhat visually appealing.
They sound like slot machines when they kick back the pennies. I think now that people know they don't accept them, it doesn't happen as often. Of course, I was on one this AM and this guy kept putting pennies in over and over and I'm wondering why it didn,t dawn on him that it was doing this because they weren't allowed.
I'm not a huge fan of these boxes, though. They're great if you do have Smart Trip, but a real pain if you don't. The dollar bill slot was giving people a hard time and in a previous post, I mentioned how slow you have to insert coins or else it jams up.
To me they look cool, but they also look like the Washington Monument shrunk, then painted with buttons added. I never used one and from what it sounds like I don't. All of the local transit agencies are getting them so it might be problems all around the region with these things.
These boxes are definitely a good idea and after seeing it again tonight, they do look more modern than the GFI's. I guess you get used to what you have already. I definitely don't use them much since I don't ride Arlington division buses much so I don't want to be the one that turns people against it, but they do have a lot of potential. I think they just need to make the coin slot bigger. You see everyone getting on putting the coins in one at a time like a vending machine. Its a little daunting when the driver starts up and you have to hang on while doing this, but being able to use the Smart Trip and add value to it is neat.
It also seems like they have a computer attached to it, not sure what that is for. I have seen them on my travels on the Baltimore MTA (they those computers attached to the fare boxes). The Arlington routes I was on Friday didn't seem to have problems, probably they just need to go through their teething period.
The attached computer is the driver's control panel thing -- notice how there's no place for a built-in panel like on the old GFI CentsABill boxes
Actually, that is correct; our boxes are AGENT products, and yes, they are pure crap. The ones they replaced were GFIs, which never gave any trouble at all. Guess what we should have stayed with? :)
-F.
WMATA operates and manages the service for the City of Falls Church (weekday and weekend base service is the 26A; the two peak hour services are the 26E and the 26W, so designated for the east loop and west loop) out of Arlington Garage. It looks as though there are 4 Thomas SLFs (3951-3954), all of which are assigned to Arlington. The timetable for GEORGE is a standard WMATA Metrobus issue.
There are actually 5, one is a hybrid-electric but I have seen no sign of it. I also have a pic of the schedule, slightly modified from the WMATA version:
http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/pics/wmatavsgeorge.jpg
My pics are now uploaded at http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/pics, filenames are the same as in first post. Also for those interested there is a file odysseybox.jpg of the new Odyssey Revenue Centers being tested by WMATA.
I had on my trip about eight people. Three were a group of one that were on the bus when it arrived at East Falls Church, two (including myself) got on at EFC and three got on along the route. It will probably take about a month before people realize that there is a new bus system. Hopefully GEORGE would become popular. The fare is cheap.
Really? How's the fare, and what type of special run is it? Is this a transit "first" in the area? From the pics, it looked like the Thomas SLF was the centerpiece of a big event. Our SLFs are actually used for a Downtown Express service that whisks city employees quickly to their jobs from a "park and ride" spot, and is the first service of its kind in our area. And it is a free service with no fare, in order to orient those who would not normally take the bus to the wonderful world of transit...a "gateway drug", if you will.
The negative is that it is limited to C of R employees only, and totally off limits to everyone else, due to our elitist City Manager's request. What a shame. I think other patroms should be allowed to pay a fare if they need that service to get around, or simply don't want to hassle with traffic and parking. And it's for nine-to-fivers; it basically makes two big runs, and carries very few people during the day. And those who really need it get kicked off the bus. Meanwhile, revenue is lost because there is no fare, and other potential transit customers are turned away, ergo defeating the purpose of welcoming more to use public transportation.
What a waste; make it useful to everyone!
Transit already existed in this area but not on the "bus to your front door" caliber that GEORGE provides.
There's something about this new breed of "EuroBuses" that attracts passengers -- buses like the SLF, the Chance Coach Opus, and the Optare SoLo (sold in the US as the NABI 30-LFN) -- that really attracts passengers more than a big smoking Flxible Metro B. They're smaller so they can get "up in your face" driving up your residential street, and that is what attracts car-owning passengers nowadays.
Many areas have experienced the same success with the SLF. It is admittedly a good bus, very passenger-friendly, looks 'good', and is also hideously fuel efficient - operators have reported mileage of up to 11 MPG, which is insane for a transit bus. The MTA (MD) purchased these buses for their "Shuttle Bug" Hampden shuttle, and they were an instant success. They then purchased more for other non-branded neighborhood services. Then The Bus (PG County, MD) purchased them with the same hopes of attracting 'new' (not normal transit riders) passengers. Now the City of Fairfax has purchased them in an attempt to lure the highly 'car-dependent' folks out of their houses and I think it's working -- as previously mentioned, people actually wave to these things as they roll down their streets. Little children wave to them as though they were fire trucks, older children throw snowballs at the cars in front of and behind it, jogging adults walking their dogs wave as though they were greeting their groomer, and that is exactly what they were goin' for in purchasing the SLFs.
In addition, Falls Church has been 'waiting' for 'this' for a couple years now, I previously mentioned the Electrek concept introduced in the 1990s that never came to fruition because WMATA had so many problems with the buses they had originally purchased for the job (btw Electrek and GEORGE were funded by alternative fuel research grants). So, instead of launching new service under a failed name, they decided to scrap the idea and start over, just as Airtran did after the ValuJet crash in FL and Amtrak did with Acela (just a hyped up brand name but still).
Hopefully Fairfax City is buying 35' ones. With the George Mason Universtiy having tons of students traveling from the Vienna Metro Station and in Fairfax City itself they need longer buses. All of their buses so far are 30', which doesn't work with armpit to armpit full of students. During the summer it is not a problem, but during the school year, WHOA!!! They might also need a 40' bus or two.
Crud I'm sorry I meant City of Falls Church...how many times did I say Fairfax I wonder :p
Well they might work in Fairfax City, but they might opt for a heavy duty bus like they have now. They might be due to order a replacement order for their late 80s Orion Ones. Then again, they might keep the Orion Ones for a while longer.
As for Falls Church, if the buses are as popular as they seem to be, then ridership should be big in the future.
They seem to handle loads too. I have ridden on many in which there were standing loads and it doesn't seem to flinch.
Yeah....they do well at that. Do yours have the Cummins ISB like ours do? They seem to have a lot of pulling power.
-F.
Yep. ISB engines. They have pretty quick takeoff and are relatively fast, especially the 35' ones.
Yeah...ours are 35-footers as well. I don't know what it is, but it seems the longer the bus, the better the takeoff. The Flxible Metro 40-footers at Blacksburg Transit always ran better and faster than the 35-footers, and all had the same engine (6V71). What gives?
-F.
They come with either ISB or a Mercedes Benz 906 engine, apparently the MB engine is for the 35' one only. Some in the past could have come with an ISC engine, and though they didn't have it listed, it could still be an option.
WOW...a Benz engine in a Thomas? Wonder what that sounds like? And does anyone know what kind of engine was in the plain white 30-foot demo? It sounded NOTHING like the ISB in our SLF 235s.
I do know that there were two demos for the SLF going around; one was plain white and read "SUPER LOW FLOOR" on an orange digital sign and had what looked like chrome four-slot rims, and the other was my favorite...it featured yellow "SLF 200" stripe designs.
-F.
That one might have had a Mercedes Benz engine, or maybe a C8.3 engine, those are my two guesses.
Yeah...they do have a friendly look to them. As for the "big, smoking Flxible Metro Bs", I LOVE those, and they can smoke all they want as long as they don't do it in the house. LOL!
-F.
Where is this? Are they getting Thomas SLFs at WMATA? That's interesting!
-F.
They are stored at WMATA's Arlington garage and driven by WMATA drivers, but the service is for the city of Falls Church. I don't know if this is a taste of what's to come for WMATA itself, though, but they seem like pretty nice little buses. I haven't had the chance to ride them, but maybe one day I'll take a tour on it.
Yeah...Thomas SLFs are pretty nice. We have 35-footers here, which from what I understand are special-order only as most are 30s. The seats are fairly comfy, and they are like a breath of fresh air....also, they are the very first low floors ever used by my TA.
I don't know how they would take the streets of DC though...for one, the limited seating is a challenge for the usually crowded WMATA routes, and doesn't DC have hills and potholes in some areas? Their low slung nature could self-destruct them if that is the case.
We tried a 30-foot SLF demo here on normal routes a year before our 35s came, and wound up buckling the front fender/door area when it turned into a ramp at our downtown transit center. And a week into ours coming in, they were already in the body shop for lower skirt repair.
Don't get me wrong...I like them, and they are cute little coaches, but with the above in mind, why they still got them after that incident is anyone's guess.
SLF's are probably fine for smaller transit operators, but I don't think they can handle the 'mean streets' of the big city. Baltimore MTA operates some for their 'Shuttlebug' routes, and from what I've heard the SLF's are in the shops quite often. The day I went busfanning in Blatimore last August, the Mondawmin Shuttlebug route was being operated with one SLF and one 1987 Flxible 30-footer!
Jim D.
The 3000's, which is what MTA numbered them, are cute (as a streetcar person, it hurts to call a bus "cute"), but the crappy Baltimore streets are not nice to them, and two in the body shop after a couple a nasty accidents. One of the "baby buses", as the FLX 30-footers are referred to, has been repainted for the Hampden Shuttlebug. Rumor is that a few others will be repainted in the two shuttlebug schemes.
On my bus trip today in Baltimore, I didn't see any SLFs on the Mondawmin Shuttlebug today all I saw were baby Metros. 8752 in the the new paint scheme with the LED taillights.... UGH!!!.
Yup...same goes on here. Only in our case, the 1987 Flxible is a 1991 Gillig. You lucky devil...can't you switch lives with me for at least ONE day? :) LOL!
-F.
Thomas SLFs are nice looking, but more or less for airport or flat land shuttles. Hills or ramps are like rocky boulders to these!
-F.
They are WAY better than the Orion IIs. I guess you can tell I don't like the Orion IIs.
LOL, I thought you loved those Orion II's! Aren't you going to do a bus trip where that's all you ride one day? Cap it off with a "The Bus" ride on one of those other monstrosities!
The SLF's look so cool. I'm going to have to incorporate them into a bus riding routine one of these days.
I love Orion IIs like Flxible hates Flxibles, LOL!!!
The Bus needs to trash them van buses and get some real buses. I was on one about a couple of months ago and it had maximum capacity 24, and it had 24 seats, so if the 25th person got on then that bus might not go any further. A long time ago, THE BUS had a bus that looked like an Orion II, but it was made bus Thomas. Just imagine an Orion II that had an 80s feel. Talk about ready made scrapper material. They didn't last long, about less than five years.
Wow, now that's some big time hating going on there!!! Fairfax Connector ran these weird looking buses for awhile on the 621 routes. Actually, those routes were called the 20A (Former WMATA route), the 20G and 20P, which were new numbers for that line, then they turned into 621, 623, etc. Anyway, I think these rolling garbage cans were made by Diamond. I don't know how to explain them other than its similar to what ART is running. I now see some of these buses running as apartment shuttle buses. You can even see the orange and yellow stripes still on them. Must have bought them for about $10, since that's all they were worth.
I was trying to think of an all crappy bus day, incorporating "The Bus", Ride On, ART and the Orion II's, but there's no way to really connect them without using metrorail in between.
LOL!!! and the Orion IIs are worth 50 bucks, with the engine costing about 45 bucks. I remember those crapitolas. Glad they got rid of them. They also ran on the RIBS routes, only to be replaced by 30' Orion Vs. I think they were Diamond. All the vanbuses are good for are shuttles and that's that.
About all of The Bus's buses are crap. The only good buses they have are the Thomas SLFs and TLs and the Gillig Phantoms. They need more like theses. Would you believe they had that vancrap in CNG version?
That's sad that "The Bus" only gets the bottom of the barrel buses. This is my whole problem with the way PG County is treated, but this is definitely not the forum to get into that. 26 years living in PG and seeing how neglected it was will do that to you.
You're very generous with the Orion II's. $50, wow! LOL! Did those CNG vanbuses travel far? I can't imagine what size fuel tank they would have. ART buses are just like that. They do have some new ones on a Ford Econoline chassis now. I consider those more of a bus than whatever it is ART also runs. I rode on one when it was doing a shuttle run from Ballston to the Arlington County Fair over the summer. Its the same day I saw an Arlington County Thomas bus with the mirrors held on with bug antennas. (That's what they looked like to me at least!)
I am not sure if they did. These buses didn't last long also I haven't seen one in a while.
I really don't want to go more into this but I believe that sometime Prince George's doesn't get the respect "bus wise" as they should. For instance when the NABIs arrived, Landover got three. They could have sent those buses to Bladensburg, Montgomery or Northern. Those buses also left in about three years to Montgomery and Bladensburg.
I also get mad whenever WMATA takes buses out of Landover for no reason, now mind you I don't mind when Landover gets buses from another garage. There are routes that run from Landover that should have had their frequencies increased a long time ago and now that they could, the ridership isn't there. At times I wished that a PG could have a seperate transit service take some of PG's WMATA routes. Now I am thinking the opposite, in now I think that WMATA should take over THE BUS's 21 route. That route is one of THE BUS's most popular routes, and uses small buses. Nonetheless, now the ridership doesn't seem there like it was before.
You must be referring to the Thomas Vista -- thankfully they stopped making those when Freightliner took over and forced them to use only their chasses.
Ok I'm not sure what kind of engine these babies have but here is a recording:
http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/tsounds/WMATA-3954.mp3
It should be an ISB engine, though they sounded slightly different than THE BUS's ones. Those engines are also of the ERG variety, which maybe the reason why they sound the way they do.
WOW...so they now have Thomas SLFs in Hawaii? I knew they were buying Gilligs for newer orders and have seen RTSes. Whatever happened to the Flxible New Looks and Grumman 870s there?
-F.
The Flxible New Looks (at least the one I rode in 1990) were built in 1972, so they are long gone, most likely the 1990 TMCs replaced them. I suspect the Grummans went away in the mid-90s.
TheBus in Honolulu had a pretty varied fleet when I was there, in addition to the Flx New Looks and 870s, they had Gillig Phantoms, Scanias, Neoplan 30 or 35 footers and artics from an unknown manufacturer, may have beem Ikarus.
I saw only Gillig Phantom, New Flyer D60LF, and RTS in my last visit. According to my fleet list I requested, the Scanias and Neoplan are not on the list.
Hope this helps you,
Stephen
Thanks
Considering my visit was 12 1/2 years ago, its likely very few, if any of the buses I saw are still in service (the TMC RTSs arrived after my visit)
The Gilligs you saw were most likely 1997 models which replaced the earlier Gilligs that I saw (for the record those were the 400 and 900 series).
Ok I'm not sure what kind of engine these babies have but here is a recording:
http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/tsounds/GEORGE-3954.mp3
Why did Jackir Gleason move the B65 Last Stop (Downtown Bklyn) further back from Fulton Street to Livingston st.? It was better at Smith & Fulton.
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
Jackie Gleason (neither the person nor the depot) moved the stop. I believe such decisions are made by the Department of Buses, but I will defer to David and Barry as to who exactly it is and why they did so.
Nah, It was Jackie Gleason Depot, I asked my mother who works there, the head manager there authorized the move, they also moved the stop on Bergen & Flatbush Ave. My Question is WHY??
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
As "WMATAGMOAGH" indicated, such moves are not made by depot management. They are made by Operations Planning, sometimes at the request of someone in the Department of Buses. Since depot management's primary responsibility is getting service out onto the road, such requests would most likely be made by someone in Road Operations (the Dispatchers and their bosses), which is responsible for the buses once they are in the street. The head of Road Operations in Brooklyn is extremely proactive (he sees EVERYthing) and probably requested that the stops be moved. Such moves are often made for safety reasons, which I suspect is behind these changes. If I find out for sure, I'll report the information here.
David
lots of times the dot moves bus stops around also
True...DOT does move bus stops; in fact, it's got overall jurisdiction over bus stops. But NYCT is usually the requesting agency, at least for stops its buses use.
David
Im going to take a hunch and say that it might have to do with left turn from Smith onto Fulton. The Smith/Jay St traffic can be a nightmare sometimes. Once again, this is a hunch.
Da Beastmaster
Ohhhhhh! I forgot about that turn there, you really have to fight traffic on Smith St. to get over and make that left turn on Fulton St.
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
Message to Trever Logan-please contact "F" as soon as possible. Situation regarding check status. "F" contacted me via phone.
Just got in touch with "T"; all should be well. Thanks, "S". :)
-"F".
I'm glad I got meet you today, I even wore my favorite outfit. Now I don't have to wine about FP's buses anymore and ask the same questions. I wish more people could have showed up(like Bill from Maspeth).
Hey Big Al, believe it or not I'm Hispanic, but I look White! It's sad but its true. My looks are very decieving to my nationality. That's why I usually keep my face under a hood. Were you surpised when you saw how I looked?
Anywayz, I'll stop by Fresh Pond from time to time to see how things are going.
You're welcome DaRidgewood. I was not surprised at how you looked because I wasn't thinking you would look like anybody in particular. Instead of hiding under a hood, you should be proud of your looks and heritage. In fact, I know many hispanics who look white despite their nationality.
I'm glad I was able to review that pull out sheet with you so you understand why Fresh Pond has so many 4000's. Today, I was able to get roughly 9 out of 10 buses on the road that were 9100 and up. I only sent out 2 or 3 4000's all day and no 8000's at all.
Anyway, I'll see you again some time down the road. And remember what I told you...bus move decisions are made by management, not the depots themselves.
BIG AL
Started out by taking R68 2843 to Kings Hwy since I wanted to ride the whole Q express diversion from there to Prospect Park. So I run under and over to the Manhattan bound side to catch R68 2900. We went about 50mph between Kings Hwy and Newkirk Av [felt a little 'nostalgia' riding a R68 on the express track :-)]. Anyway, we go smoothly until 14 St/Union Sq where I wil catch the L. Got a R42[yay!] rollsigns didn't have Lorimer St; had South Terminal went about 50mph through the N 7 tunnel then I got off at Lorimer to catch the shuttle bus, people were walking SLOW at the exit. Ride the R42's while they're still around on the L!
So I step outside, lots of buses out there, had my pen & paper to take the bus #'s down! I had to let 9311 go b/c it was crowded and I settled with 8445 went no more than 20mph the entire ride but surprisingly NO bus passed us. Then I get off at the last stop, which is B'way Junction and I get 9324, the best ride I would have on my 2 round trips on the shuttle bus. So I get the frontseat; we go at good speed throughout the ride, going 40mph on Johnson Av we passed 4650 which was going very slow making us fall behind for a long time. Then we arrive at Lorimer and the start of my 2nd round trip begins. I let 9597 go b/c it was crowded so I settled with 4865.
We would go no more than 20mph the entire way on 4865, it was like a chain reaction, most of the bus ops didn't take advantage of producing speed at all :-\. Again, 2 or 3 buses would be directly behind us for a majority of the trip. The bus before, 9597 was WAY gone, it was so far ahead, too bad I didn't go on it So I arrive at B'way Junction once more the bus picks up passengers and it leaves quickly. So I wait for the next bus, 8156 and I go on it, waiting a couple of minutes before we leave. Same results in terms of speed we went no more than 25mph the whole way 9602 was in front of us most of the time but then by Morgan Av, it left us in the dust. Then when we reach Johnson & Bushwick, we catch up to 4865 but we are not able to pass it so we got stuck behind it. Then I went downstairs to catch the L waiting a few minutes until a R143 comes, I take it to 14 St and I take the Q home.
Here's all the buses I saw
ENY->4416,4428,8111,8122,8349,8695,8915,8928,9048,9058
JG->4650,8520,8528,8531,8540,8552,8680,8682,8683,8687,8688
UP->4865,7524,9079,9081,9105,9107,9299,9311,9324
FB->5081,5114,5118,8156,8412,8418,9398,9408,9419,9431
FP->4684,4686,5059,5064,8008,9595,9597,9602
126->5025,5034,7536,8236,8445,8472,9046,9050,9214,9217,9227
R68 2843 (Q)
R68 2900 (Q)[towards Manhattan]
R42 4590 (L)
RTS 8445 L SHUTTLE
RTS 9324 L SHUTTLE
RTS 4865 L SHUTTLE
RTS 8156 L SHUTTLE
R143 8216 (L)
R68 2829 (Q)
P.S. Strating Feb 15 and for a couple of weekends L trains run in 3 sections and skips 1 and 3 Avenues.
I made a mistake the other day asking for El Paso info, thanks for your replys and I now have a few great El Paso pics. The producers have said that its actually San Antonio so once again.... does anyone have any info on equipment and paint schemes for San Antonio? If they use/used RTS/TMC/NEO/METRO/MAN/Grumman or Fishbowl I will have a bus repainted into the San Antonio scheme if I dont have a bus that is close. The only info I have is that awhile back someone boarded a local San Antonio bus and started shooting. They will recreate this in Riverside, CA. Any help is appreciated.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
San Antonio is and has been a through and through RTS town. Lots of very early 40-foot RTS-01s and later many more 102-inch wide 35-foot RTS-04s. I'd say an RTS T70-204 is your best bet, if you can get one.
From what I know, they were running alot of 1978 RTS with the sloped back in 1999. Of course it's four years later and the dreaded NABI has stepped in so I don't know if they are still there.
The last of the RTS slopebacks were taken out of service when the 730-889 series NABIs arrived in 1999-2000. There may be some TMC RTS-6 models from 1988 and 1992 still on the road, but I'd expect them to be retired soon.
What kind of paint scheme were the 06's in?
San Antonio's RTS's were in a paint scheme that I thought was designed by the same people who did the paint scheme for the jets of AirCal airlines.
The buses had the striping done in a pattern similar to LACMTA, around the bus -- the colors were purple, light purple, orange, and yellow from top to bottom, each color being about 2" thick.
I have photos of San Antonio Transit with their 35 foot fishbowl from 1972 (town pass from Lackland AFB), and again in 1978 (for tech school-Lackland AFB) just after the RTS arrived on the property (first batch - without the indent for the license plate on the front bumper and plastic center hub to check oil level) along with VIA decals over the San Antonio Transit fishbowl and complete repaints.
Shot me an e-mail to which era you need.
For more details, check out my auctions...they are under "flxible".
Happy Hunting!
-F.
Do you have a photo available of this model?
JD
Nothing for anyone to get excited about, it's only one of those little rubber squeeze toys. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "model".
That's a matter of opinion; it is, however, nicely MODELed after an Orion V, which is a bus that is hard to find in any small form, be it diecast, plastic, or popsicle sticks. The latter, however, would be very interesting to see, don't you think? :)
-F.
To all,
I have posted the itinerary and other information for SubTalk DC on April 5th on my website. I encourage anyone interested in coming on the trip to read it. There might be some sort of Amtrak discount depending on when you buy your tickets so check out amtrak.com for more info on that. The next step is to devise contingency plans on what to do if the cherry blossoms are not in bloom, and I will post info there when I finish that.
Click here for the SubTalk DC Page. I suggest you bookmark this and e-mail me to join the STDC mailing list, informing you of future updates to that page. I also asked Dave to add this to the upcoming events list.
Hope to see a few of you in April!
Just added one thing, if you already read it, look for the thing about Lindsay Layton. If you haven't already read it, what are you waiting for?
Ive decided to start taking apart the buses at Ulmer Park becasue ive come to realize that my complaining isnt going to do any good. The scratched up seats on the coach buses arent going to change anytime soon, neither are new buses for Ulmer Park. We, like Fresh pond, are screwed. Did happen to see #4784 and #7514 out of service in the back lot. #7514 has it front window smashed in. Cant wait to see what Ulmer Park gets next..if anything at all.
B1-#4855-TMC
B64-#9103-NOVABUS
Oh man, 7514 must of been in a pretty bad accident, I think that's a goner. Not only are the coach seats scratched, recliners don't work often, spilled fluids are common. Wonder what UP is going to get in the future. Last set of new buses UP had was in 1996 the Novas[9031,9035,9040,9048,9057-9060,9062,9067,9073-9110]; before that it WAS THE 1988 TMC's [4683-4730]. They had it bad, 7-8 year gaps between getting new buses and since the RTS is no longer produced UP will CONTINUE to get hand me downs along with other depots.
The only thing the Brooklyn Division can look forward to is the arrival of the OrionVII's(which is taking MUCH longer than expected). Jackie Gleason will remain the only depot that gets new buses. But here's the thing, since JG has received more RTS's(because of the B8), the OrionVII order might be more than 60 buses. All of the RTS's in JG got to leave sometime soon, right? Brooklyn needs to hold out a little longer. All the big changes will happen soon, I hope...
I was riding the B41 LTD today coming from downtown Brooklyn and the LTD bus I was on 8025, was slow in general we went no more than 20 mph my ENTIRE ride from Adams St to Foster Av. We passed no local buses, another Limited arrived at Foster about 3-5 minutes later. In general, I feel that TA drivers are driving more slower nowadays.
What do you guys think?
Perhaps the bus was early and the Operator intentionally drove slowly to get back on schedule. It's called "dragging."
David
This happens way too often to the point that I believe its not dragging; its probably the case though.
is that the buses that are goven to 30mph maybe it's a speed. Are it good e the fact that the steet speed is 20mph.
When I ride a TA bus I really have come to expect a slow ride, but hopefully not one where the B/O is dragging the line. Now - if I managed to get one that's operating at a regular speed... well that's a nice bonus.
Wayne
as one that worked flatbush i can tell you that on the limited you get way to much time and depending on the time of the day you really have to drive at a snails pace to not run way ahead of schedule
[as one that worked flatbush i can tell you that on the limited you get way to much time and depending on the time of the day you really have to drive at a snails pace to not run way ahead of schedule]
In other words, the schedulers should CUT the B41 Limited running time? Be careful of what you ask for....
Sure. They should cut the running time if it's warranted and add it to the recovery time. This way, the trip remains intact with respect to headway and you still have the same time to return should a blockage or slowdown become apparent.
It makes no sense to have the limited bus drag the line if it doesn't have to. Schedules should reflect real-time operation, not keystrokes at a cubicle.
I was reading on the commuterpage for Arlington about a BRT bus they are going to show off in Arlington this month. It looks like from what their schedule says, that it will actually run on two metrobus routes, the 11P for a couple of hours one day and the 16W for a couple of hours another day. This should be interesting to see. Its also going to be shown off at several other things during the month. Feb. 15 looks like a good day to go down the street to Columbia Pike and see if I can stumble into this thing as it will be running from 10AM-11AM, not on a metrobus route, but just running around.
CIVIS bus? What's that?
CIVIS bus is a BRT (bus rapid transit) vehicle that has several doors and is one of the experiments Arlington is looking into along Columbia Pike and Rte. 1. It looks really cool.
Know where i can find a picture of it?
Its on the arlington commuterpage. I don't know what the exact website address is, though. I think www.commuterpage.com.
If the regional bus study on WMATA's website is still there they also had a pic of the Civis bus. I forgot the link but I could get it.
http://www.janes.com/transport/gallery/apta2002/gallery/dscf0017.shtml
YOW...that's funky. Looks more like a train than a bus! That is so outmlandish, I don't see it getting mass-produced. Maybe if they have a sequel to "The Fifth Element", I could see a few more getting built, but SHEEZE! It does have a coolness factor though.
-F.
Several doors? Are we talking a TLF or an Orion VI? VII, perhaps?
-F.
Its more like a train on rubber tires, 4 doors.
When I went to the Bus Study public hearings in Arlington, some of the people who were there had reservations about that type of bus service and type of bus on the 16 line. Like you I HIGHLY think they should use artics on this line. They might be better for the 16 line than the BRT buses. Those BRT buses might be an option along the proposed Dullus right of way. Before the rail to Dullus is built, they might use that right of way for BRT.
Yeah, artics are better for Columbia Pike. The road is too narrow to put tracks for Light Rail, or lanes for BRT. They'd have to demolish all the businesses along there to do this. I believe BRT was to be the first step for rail to Dulles, but that keeps flip flopping. At this rate, nothing will ever be done along there!
Yea, they better think of something quick or rail or bus to Dullus might be a pipe dream. I wonder if rail is built to Dullus, will WMATA establish routes out there. I believe right now Loudoun County is not part of the WMATA coverage area. Most likely either Fairfax Connector would run into Loudoun County or the county itself might start its own transit system. I think they have a tiny transit system using small 15 seat van buses.
They have an 'upstart' of a transit system but also has an express route to the Pentagon (if anyone's ever wondered what a Yellow Tours [or something like that] bus was doing at the Pentagon...). If Loudon puts money in the pot WMATA would surely cover it.
(Mineola, Long Island-AP) -- Prosecutors on Long Island were announcing the arrest this morning of eight current or former employees of the M-T-A's Bus Division on charges they falsified time sheets to the tune of more than 14 Thousand Dollars.
Nassau DA Denis Dillon says the eight worked in the agency's ``money rooms'' counting and preparing the fares collected on Long Island Bus Routes. A supervisor with 29 years on the job is accused of signing phony time sheets and other documents for the others, who then pocketed the money for time they didn't work.
Dillon says that the investigation is continuing, but so far investigators have found that the scheme cost the MTA 14-thousand, four hundred and seven dollars.
The defendants were all scheduled for arraignment later today at First District Court in Hempstead.
A few weeks ago, both 4880 and 4881 were scrapped at Fresh Pond depot. This weekend they were hauled out, probably to Nimco. Now the latest scrapped bus to join the ranks is 3919, now sitting in the back of the depot stripped of all outer marking, doors, dasboard and other misc. parts. However, from past experience usually when I see a depot scrapping buses one after another, it's a sign other buses will be coming in soon. So maybe those new buses will be coming into Gleason shortly from now.
BIG AL
i was talking to a buddy of mine in jg and he said that the delivery is suppose to start in the spring . i guess the waiting is over
Well, Fresh Pond is now down to 235 buses, which is the lowest # I've seen in a long time. I'm suprised the all 4 ENY hand-downs(3986, 3987, 3995, & 3997) are still here! Those should've been the first buses to leave. I really hope JG gets their new buses soon, so I can see something else around here for a change.
Hello My Washingotn Metropolitan Area Friends:
I just got word from my source up at Ride On & Orion that Ride On will be receiving Orion 7 CNG buses by years end.
This order will be a 1 for 1 replacement for the remaining 1989 Gillig Model 30TB96 "Phantom" buses and an additional 15 for service expansion. This order is expected to cause a load of movements between garages. As this order will all be assigned to the Gaithersburg Facility which is also receiving a new CNG Fueling Station.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
FINALLY something DIFFERENT :) Any words on powertrain specs, length, etc.? Thanks for the good news.
There are only 7 30ft Gillig's left? Sigh, the last of the buses of my childhood (at least, from Ride ON) will be retired.
No, he meant Ride-on will order Orion Model VII (7) busses to replace the baby gilligs. I dont know how many 30 ft. Gilligs are left but I'm pretty sure it's more than 7.
So are they going to be 30-footers, or do they even make a VII that small? It really makes me feel old when I hear that Gilligs are being replaced. These are what replaced Flxibles in a lot of cities.
-F.
They make the Orion VII in 30', 35' and 40'. I doubt that Ride On will buy 30 footers. Any bus under 30' would be bought for the private routes. I would say if they are buying around 50 buses, they might be 35'. They usually don't buy that much 40 footers. It could also be a mix between 35 and 40 footers.
I wonder where service is going to expand to? Maybe more in the growing Germantown/Poolesville area. I can't imagine they're looking into taking over anymore WMATA runs although who knows with all the budget problems everyone is having. However, there aren't really any Montgomery routes that they could take over anymore. It seems the only WMATA routes left are the most used like the C2, 4, 8, J1-5,L7-8, T2, Q2, Y7,8 and Z lines. Ride On has taken over so much of their service in the past 10 years, though.
Unless they add service to existing routes. Germantown and Poolesville might have more service or more east-west routes.
They make the VII in 30, 35, and 40ft sizes. Check out Orion's website, www.orionbus.com, for more details.
Cool! I hope the 2002 OrionV's go down south like what happin with the 1999 Gilligs
Most of the 2002s were delivered to and operated from Lytonnsville (southern) depot.
No they were not.
5580-5599, 5602, and 5612-5624 are all at Gaithersburg. 5600-5601 and 5603-5611 are at Silver Spring. 5602 may have initially been at Silver Spring but I last saw it up at Gaithersburg and I have proof:
Now, it is true that 5580-5595 are 01s, but they are still the same order.
WOW...what a nice destination sign...LOVE the font! What kind of sign is that V carrying?
-F.
Horizon LED sound right to you?
Here is another picture:
No, they are Twinvision signs.
I am not a destination sign expert (or maybe you noticed that already 0:-))
Nope. That is the TwinVision All-LED sign. The big difference between the All-LED and the Luminator Horizon is the different sizes off the line number and the destination (note how the "37" is larger than "POTOMAC"; the above sign is a TwinVision). The other tell-tale sign of the All-LED is the two line text on the side signs, where the front generally only has one line of text.
Not a big fan of Orion Vs, eh? :)
I actually like those. They remind me somewhat of a Flx Metro.
-F.
Oh dear god, that is the most butt ugly bus in production. Get some Neoplans RIDE-ON!!!
I personally dont hate the way they look. They look pretty unique and interesting. At least it isnt an Invero.
I do agree with you aznboy4305. The Orion VII is a good looking bus from my point of view
The sides remind me of that car in National Lampoon's Vacation, the first one. They are an odd bus.
Bring out the Family Truckster!!!!!!
LOL!!! I have got the movie's theme song going through my head right now with the dog barking.
LOL! Holiday Ro-AAA--oad....I can see it now! Chevy Chase in a hot tub with a bombshell, and wifey is pissed. LOVE that movie. Classic!
-F.
Yeah...that thing is pretty trucklike at stance. I saw a pic of NYCTA no. 6365 on the BX19 in a recent METRO Magazine, and it just doesn't sit like a bus. And that tacky window frame configuration...it would look SO much better with black all around, and not just on the sashes. And would it kill the TA to order them with Alcoas rather than those awful swiss-cheese steel wheels? It just doesn't look right! Chevy Chase has a future at the NYCTA.
-F.
"The Orion VII is a good looking bus from my point of view"
No argument.
But I want to see how she'd look as a 45-footer.
Well a trend is starting with 45 Foot Low Floor Buses,I hope theres a 45 Foot Orion VII someday.
I just can't wait to see one come on the Q46 Line,That would make me happy and maybe even change my handle too!
I think Ride On, DASH and Fairfax Connector are practically dedicated to Orion, that will be the only bus they'll be buying for years to come. It would be nice to see different bus models here. The Orion 7, though Orion would be a different sight on DC roads. I would also throw in a NABI. Ride On is most likely done with Gillig. Other than WMATA if you want to see Neos, head for Baltimore they are right now receiving Neoplan low floors and will be seeing Neoplans for about 5 years(unless they change). Let's just be glad that Baltimore didn't go through with their Orion order they had last year, or else there would be tons o' Orions around here.
So how long will Flxibles stay around Baltimore? They are the flagship of their operation, IMO. I want to go up there and ride one!
-F.
They should stay for a while. It's 2003 and the 8500s and 8600s are about to be retired, some of the 8600s anyway. The 9500s, Baltimore's last Flxible purchase should last until 2013, we hope. If Baltimore blows up to where it had as many buses as WMATA, they should keep the buses they are retiring now should be saved for their future service.
Will these be 35' or 40'? They may need the 40' ones more. I HIGHLY doubt that they will buy any more 30' buses, except for the contractor routes. The last 30' buses they bought were the Orion Ones in the early 90s. Well also looks like Ride On will be an Orion customer for a while longer, along with Fairfax Connector. DASH seems they want to go back to Orion too. If I am correct they have some Orions on order too. If bus movements are logical, then the rest of the 5600s up at Gaithersburg now would be moved down to Lyttonsville. Of course little with Washington area transit systems makes sense now-a-days. Also the two DD6V92 engine Orion Vs might move back down to Lyttonsville also.
Considering most of the Gilligs to be retired are at Silver Spring, I imagine quite a few buses will be moving down from Gaithersburg. I have figured about 75 buses are coming, making this the 2nd largest order of buses that I am aware of (if the 5100s and 5200s are in fact ATE's, then the Orion VIIs should the largest). That said, I am predicting that the first buses to be moved down will be whatever Gilligs are left up at Gaithersburg, if there are any. Unless I am forgetting something, all of Gaithersburg's Gilligs should be retired. The next thing to come down (logically) would be the 2001-2002 Orion Vs, since Silver Spring already has about 12 of them. Also, this balances out the ages of the divisions. I would be surprised if the 1996-1998 Orion Vs go anywhere. I also imagine that the Orion Is will stay put.
I think all of the Gilligs are moved down. I think the only ones that are up there might be the 30 footers. I know they were using one for driver training. I also think those Cummin engine Orions are staying put. If that is true they are getting 75 that is a large order. They did retire a few Gilligs when the first of the 2001-02 Orions came. They had one up by WMATA's Montgomery Garage for a brief time. Thinking they were all about to be retired, I went up there to take a pic of it only to have it gone when I got up there.
All the 35' Gilligs are moved down. The only Gilligs Gaitherburg has are a few 30' Gilligs which are to be replaced by the VII's as well as the 30' Gilligs down at Silver Spring. If Ride-On decides to be unfair with Silver Spring, they might move all the orion I's from Gaithersburg to Silver Spring. If Ride-On wants to be fair, the 2001-2002 orion V's might go to Silver Spring, to give everybody their share of new busses.
Yea, they didn't get much of the 2001-02 Orion to begin with (Silver Spring. Other than the Orion Vs 5700s, Lyttonsville hasn't gotten much in the way of new buses. Gilligs 5410-22, Orion V CNG 5802-21 and 5580-5599, 5602?, and 5613-5622 went to Gaithersburg. When will Lyttonsville get some fresh from the factory new buses again. All they seem to get are Gaithersburg hands me downs.
75?????!!!!!! I don't think so!
It will be 50 or less. It is a 1 for 1 replacement of the 30 foot Gillig Phantoms, There was only 56 of those and at least 20 of those have been knocked out of commission with the 01-02 Orion 05.502 Diesel order along with the last of the 1984 Orion 01.509 30 Footers in the high 5200 Series.
So at the most you are looking at 50 or less buses here.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
OK, I wasn't too sure on the number of buses left. There haven't been any 84 Orion Is for a long time. Some ran with ATE for a bit a few years ago and they had one for demonstration purposes but that was it. There are some 89 Orions still, what is the scoop with them?
BTW, you can use my first name, just don't reveal what H stands for :-).
89 Orions? There are no 89 Orions!!!
You have the 1984 Orion 1s & the 1991-92 Orion 1s. The only thing in the 89 range are the 1988 Gillig Phantoms. Now if you are talking about the 1991-92 Orion 1s, All 46 of them are in service, NONE have been retired.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Oh boy...don't tell me the Flxible Metros are long gone. I know the Orion and Gillig 30-footers are pretty much out the door...I saw them on eBay for as little as 100.00 starting bid a few months ago.
-F.
The Flx Metros will be there for awhile, they are only 1993 to begin with and have had very little use during this time due to being in the shop for a couple of years converting to diesel.
I agree... I think those Flxible Metros will be around for a lot more years. I recall seeing Gaithersburg's 5200 series Orion I up until about a year ago. Those Orions were so old that they had rear windows and curtain destination signs.
Wayne
This one you may have to say to yourself over and over to get it! Enjoy!
Hehe. LOL :D
This one you may have to say to yourself over and over to get it! I found this sign sitting off of Flatbush Avenue and fell out! Enjoy!
This one you have to study the photo! Enjoy!
Taking Politics to the Big Screen! (Just a Little Politics Humor) Enjoy!
HAHA LMAO!!
Good one!
LOL!!!
Are you sure thats not a real movie. Looking at the Bush budget you know there is money for it
Imagine this actually coming to theaters? *shudders*
It is already in a couple of theaters in the U.S.:
The U.N. "Cinema" where it has opened to mixed reviews.
The D.C. "Cinema Twin" (The Senate and Congress)
I hear it is playing well in one of the overseas markets - The Parliment Theatre in the UK has held it over for another week.
ROFL....VERY nice! Drives the point right home...LOL! I feel a sequel coming up here!
-F.
I picked up a copy of a new Queens MTA Bus Map dated December 2002.
While the map itself shows the latest changes the route descriptions had so many mistakes its a shame that the TA will let the map go out to the public
Some of the mistakes
1-It listed the information for the the old B-13 route and the discontinued B-18 route
2- It listed the Q27 as having limited stop service all day from Flushing to Queens Village and from 4PM to 1AM from Queens Village to Flushing
3- It did not list the hours that the Q-5 operated to Green Acres and to the Rosedale LIRR Station.
4- It did not show the hours that the Q-46 260th Street branch operated.
5- It showed that the Green Bus Line route Q-40 operated at all times.(I may be wrong but i do not believe it does)
6- Unless the Q-113 rush hour service into Nassau County was discontinued there was no mention of it.
I wonder does any one at the TA knows whats going on !!!
Thank You
Yeah, I picked up this map when I rode FP's 9587. That's pretty sad that it still shows the B18 schudule when its been dead for like 5 months, while the map shows the current B13. Also the Q69 isn't listed, but is it really gone?
The Q-69 was discontinued several years ago when NY Watersways first discontinued the Hunters Point/East 34th Street Ferry in 1999 or 2000
Thank You
[Unless the Q-113 rush hour service into Nassau County was discontinued there was no mention of it.]
The Q113 operates THROUGH Nassau County on its way from Jamaica to Far Rockaway (both Queens). During rush hours, there are several "Limited" trips which make ALL stops in Queens and NO stops in Nassau County.
The Q111 still has two round trips (one AM, one PM) which continue south of Francis Lewis Blvd & 148th Avenue, ending up at Peninsula Blvd & Rockaway Turnpike in Cedarhurst. Those trips have a habit of not appearing on the map.
Sorry it was the Q-111 service into Nassau County not the Q-113 service
Thank You
I'll be on the lookout for that. The Q40 does NOT operate 24/7, it ends at 2am.
At least after four years, the MTA has FINALLY realized that the Q34 doesn't run on weekends.
The other day on Madison Ave., I say a Liberty Lines MCI Classic with a sign reading only "Katonah". Was this bus going to Katonah, NY or to Katonah Ave in the Bronx? I wasn't sure because I know Liberty operates the Bee-Line, but I've never seen the liveries swapped.
I think I answered my own question on the Liberty Lines website. BxM4 goes to Katonah Ave. Kind of weird though
The Bx4B that display "KATONAH" is the super express that (instead of the Grand Concourse) goes up the Major Deegan to 233rd Street and makes just only few Katonah Ave stops. Of course there's only a small number of rush hour trips that does this.
Wayne
There are two Liberty Lines companies (actually subsidiaries of a single company)...
- Liberty Lines Express operates several "BxM" routes for NYCDOT.
- Liberty Lines Transit operates the Bee-Line routes (including BxM4C) for Westchester County DOT.
You must be referring to the 5:10 "KATONAH EXPRESS" which is currently assigned bus #3029. This is the only bus in the p.m. rush hour that makes all pick ups on Madison Ave then Expresses to 233rd st in the Bronx. The regular route is to take the Deegan to 233rd st but Im sure everyone knows the Deegan can be a real mess at times. One detour this bus makes is actually going up the center of the Concourse without making any stops. The passengers dont like that detour and would rather the bus sit in traffic on the Deegan (I have done this run before).
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
I guessing they don't care what time they get home but the bus driver needs to get home too after the run
Actually that is the first trip for run #505. The bus still has 2 more round trips on the Concourse (BXM4B). Its a sweet night run.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
Beside FRESH POND!FRESH POND! FRESH POND! Which is the worst depot in nyc and which is the best???????????
MY BEST DEPOT
----------------
1. GUNHILL DEPOT
Buses are clean. There buses always on time. And they have my artic.
2. JACKIE GLESON DEPOT
Different type of buses. Never waited on a Gleson buses
3. FLATBUSH DEPOT
This depot has many buses route in and out of it, like a resturant.
WORST DEPOT
-----------------
1. KINGSBRIDGE DEPOT
Dirty, inside and out. Even the artic look like a bomb hit them
2. FRESH POND DEPOT
FRESH POND, FRESH POND, FRESH POND that all I have to say
3. What your three???????????
What your worst and best????????/
That's not a trivia question.
The "best" and "worst" depots are simply a matter of opinion and, frankly, nobody here can provide an INFORMED opinion as to the "best" and "worst" depots except someone who has actually worked in (or out of) every depot in the system -- if such a person exists (extremely unlikely since the depots are under two authorities and not many people have driven for both authorities, which leaves management and clerical types).
David
I've driven for MaBSTOA as well as NYCT in three boroughs, three divisions and as a member of both unions.
Pretty impressive.
Anybody here drive in all FIVE boroughs/divisions?
David
Here's how that's possible:
Initial training in the Bronx as an OA hiree, with line training in Staten Island. One General Pick later, drive in Manhattan. Transfer or resign/rehire to Brooklyn Division (*usually* automatic and the norm) while awaiting a final transfer to a Queens destination.
Had I had my line training in Staten Island, I would have driven a NYCT bus in all 5 boroughs, although not all in passenger service. I have driven in Manhattan in passenger service, the Bronx in training, NYS DMV road certification and NYCT/OA biannual testing, Brooklyn in passenger service and in Queens in passenger service. I have yet to operate a bus in Staten Island. I *could* have operated out of the Bronx in passenger service had I elected to pick a Bronx depot as my OA depot of choice, but I did not. I picked a Manhattan depot instead.
Oddly enough, the only division I have never worked in, Staten Island, is the easiest to *possibly* transfer into, because Queens and SI are both TA and both ATU, so if it were possible, the transfer would be the easiest considering all factors involved.
However, now living on Long Island, I have no desire to operate in Staten Island.
Anyway, back to the original post, I cannot fathom how any of you who have never operated a bus out of any depot can claim one better than the next. Fair management, good union representation and high morale, as well as safe and reliable equipment and facilities depict the factors that place one depot above another. IMO anyway.
Your last paragraph took the words right out of my mouth. It is impossible to determine which depot is really the true best and worst in the system. As usual, the origianl poster who created this thread has basically nothing else to contribute to this board other than senseless ideas based on his own opinions for certain types of buses.
Anyway Brooklyn67, it looks like I have you beat when it comes to driving in the boroughs. I guess I am one of the few who did get to drive in all 5 boroughs even though you have me beat for the in service category. I started my 7 day training by driving in Brooklyn, the Bronx, Manhattn and Staten Island. We mainly drove into Staten Island to get a feel for the bus going over the Verr.Bridge and the Expressways. We left from Flatbush depot and jumped right on the highways into other boroughs on our 3rd day and up IIRC. We spent one day training from 126th Street which was when we went into Staten Island. Our last day we finally drove into Queens where I took the training bus down the Q4 route and over to Queens Village depot, where the training Supt claims to have never been! My road test was in the Bronx near the now defunct Walnut depot.I then picked into Flatbush and moved to Queens. I also did 19A recert. from Hudson Pier depot in Manhattan, then again from Zeregra in the Bronx. However, I can only boast for driving in revenue service in Brooklyn and Queens.
BIG AL
We've got basically the same training background. I too trained out of Walnut, did 19A at Hudson but did my line training at the same depot I picked. Had my training supt decided to have us drive in SI, I'd have all 5 boroughs. I suppose you had Tony Novello for training? He loves to travel into Staten Island. I had Mike Donovan. Had a penchant for the Bronx.
Anyway, I mentioned earlier that I hadn't operated a bus in the Bronx in passenger service. I erred. I worked that 2/5 Bronx shuttle a few months back. Therefore, I've operated in passenger service in 4 of 5 boroughs, however the home depot was still QV.
Will you be working that 2/5 shuttle bus GO this weekend? Lemme know....
Da Beastmaster
Gunhill is the worst depot. Their busses are filthy inside and out, and everyone knows that they perform shoddy maintainance. KB isn't all that bad. At least it is better than GH.
Is this suppose to be a Trivia question?
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Anywayz, I'll agree with you about Kingsbridge, I hate that depot too. Thier buses are dirty, and don't want any hand-downs from them. Those 4200's were bad enough.
There is no trivia in this question. Anyway, I do agree that KB's Artics and older RTS's [especialy the 4200's] is/was not in the best shape. The question you SHOULD ask is what depots run the worst buses, you can't really determine the best and worst depots just by going on the depot itself.
Fresh Pond obviously has one of the worst fleets, but the depot itself has a decent structure, its in a well secured area, and it even has its own maintainance facility(there is a narrow street that is connected to it). Also it has one of the best patches(the duck rocks).
I can't wait for Big Al to read your post. He's gonna let you have it! :)
Without any kind of objective data (Mean Distance Between Failure rates, operating ratios, etc.), how can you even think to say which garage is 'best' and which is 'worst'?
There are a lot of hard-working people who work at those depots, and you're demeaning what they do because you like one series of bus more than another.
JD
I think CS's the worse!
As I was driving down to work this morning on 395, something came into my mind that I remembered about this one bus that I saw in the early 90s. This bus had the front and sides of a GM new look and the back of an RTS. Wish I had a pic to show what this freak of nature looked like. Anyone see this bus or know of anybus that looks like it?
Could it be a Classic? That does sound like a real scary bus...
Most likely it was a Classic, that does sound like it.
Based on the initial description, it doesn't sound like a Classic. One of the big bus rebuilders (Midwest Bus?) used to advertise a rebuilt GM New Look with a new modern front - the photo was a front three-quarters view, so I couldn't tell what the rear looked like. I saw one of them once in Athens GA, and it was a monstrosity all right. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?
Jim D.
I remember it had a fishbowl front and sides, and a RTS back. I did see those Midwest Rebuilds and those were freaky looking also.
Nope not a Classic. The first GM artics had a Classic front and a fishbowl sides and back. GM of Canada only made these creatures. The one I saw years ago, had a noticeable GM fishbowl front and side but a GM RTS back. It looked really odd, nothing I have ever seen before.
I recollect that the transit authority up in Greenfield, Mass., had one of more fishbowls that were rebuilt in some unusual way that may have included some characteristics of an RTS. Sorry that I can't remember any more than that. Perhaps someone on BusTalk has a photo of such a bus from Greenfield.
[This bus had the front and sides of a GM new look and the back of an RTS.]
I remember seeing a "Frankenstein's Bus" at Grand Canyon National Park some years ago. It had a GM "Fishbowl" front, the sides of a Classic, and the rear of an RTS. It was operated by Fred Harvey Tours, which dominated the tourist market within the park.
WHOA!!! Talk about 3 generations in one bus.
The following is the information that was reported at the January meeting of the MTA Committee for New York City Transit
1-Extend B-13 service to Gateway Mall via Seaview Ave,Erskine St,Vandaila Ave. Reroute northbound B-13 service from Crescent Street to Euclid Ave between Linden Blvd and Sutter Ave
2-Make following adjustments to DOB Bus Schedules
a) Increase service on the following routes
M-20 Weekdays,M-79 Weekdays,Bx-36 Weekdays,Q-24 Saturdays,B-14 Saturdays,B-57 Weekdays,B-63 Weekdays,B-64 Weekdays,B-83 Saturdays,S-48 Saturdays,S-74 Saaturdays,S-78 Saturdays,x12/42 ,x31
b) Reduce service on the following routes
M-10 weekdays,M-21 weekdays,M-22 weekdays,M31-weekdays,M-35weekdays,M-42 Saturdays/Sundays,M-57 Weekdays,M-72 Sundays,M-86 weekdays,Bx4-weekdays,Bx33 weekdays,Bx36 Saturdays-Sundays,Q-42 weekdays,Q-54 weekdays,B-3 weekdays,B-7 weekdays,B-14Sundays,B-17weekdays,B-45 Saturdays/Sundays,B-48 weekdays,B-60 weekdays,B69 weekdays,B-75 weekdays,B-83weekdays,S40/90 weekdays and weekends(s40 only),S44 Sundays,S-46 Saturdays/Sundays,S61 Saaturdays,S62 Sundays,x18,x30,x63,x64,x68
c-Adjust timetables due to change of running time or recovery time-No change in Headways
M5,14,
Bx1/2.9,28,30,32,
Q58,59,88
B1,12,16,23,39,41,44,61
S51,52,54,59,76
X1/9,10/11,13,14,15,16,17/19,20,22,51
3-Completetion of West Farms Depot by end of 2nd quater 2003
4-Delivery of CNG Orions to begin 1st quater of 2003 to Gleason and HYBRID buses to begin 2nd quater 2003 to Hale and QV
Thank You
Please note that the report does not indicate how many runs that are to be changed.
The information only outlines the changes in the headway and this is how i determined how service was adjusted
Also on the B-13 they will be no increase of service with the extenstion which is scheduled to begin in April
Thank You
The B13 won't get more service because FP doesn't have enough buses to do it.
[The B13 won't get more service because FP doesn't have enough buses to do it.]
That's a case of the tail wagging the dog! Clearly, if increased service on any Fresh Pond route is deemed warranted by the Dept. of Buses, they would certainly find buses for such service to be provided.
Hi
I am back in full swing ,,again
I have latest destination sign readings for ALL carriers in the Metro NYC Area,,as well as NEWS Items
If anyone wants further info ,,call me,,anytime
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Steve
FDNY
If I get accused of taking sides from the prospective of the drivers, I'll accept it. The current running time for a 1/2 trip on the B13, in accordance to the time of day, ranges from 60 to 73 minutes. The amount of recovery time at the end of the line is a sick joke. With the proposed extension of the route, I would like to know the effect on the drivers seat time. Will the increased running time required add a run or 2 to the line and will the drivers have more than 3 or 4 minutes recovery at the end of the line? As for the Q58, hopefully they will get a bit more running time and or recovery time. While I realise that it could cost the TA money in the sense it will take a longer period of time to do 4 round trips in the employees' workday, service reliability will improve. Has anybody ever been on the Main St. bound Q58 and notice how long it takes (certain times of the day) to navigate that one block on 41st Rd. from College Point Blvd. to Main St.? The bus could be on time when it makes the right turn, but by the time the bus unloads and reloads, the recovery time is blown and by the time the bus pulls away it's already late.
So, finally the Orion VII CNGs are coming in! Rumor has it that the buses at JG will be moving to area depots in Brooklyn. I remember somebody saying Fresh Pond BUT do not quote me on that. Here's what I think should happen:
#4643-4652 should go to FP along with buses #8518-8566
#8400s should go to Flatbush
#8000's and #8671-8689 will go to ENY, hopefully.
Ray
Fresh Pond does not need the 4643-4652, dump them right back in ENY(or send them to KB). 8518-8566 are good enough for FP.
send the 8600's to Ulmer Park. They were orignally due #8600-#8650 before they went to Westside. And with increased service for the B64-Ulmer Park could use the service.
B70-#930-Low Flyer
MTA-NYCT NovaBus #8600-#8650 orignally never went to Ulmer Park Depot, Orignally NovaBus #8600-#8639 went to old 100th Street Depot & #8640-#8670 went to Amsterdam Depot.
DNJ
MTA TCO/OP
The 8600-8703 are TMC's!!! Not Novas.
Westside Depot didn't exist in 1994. 8600-8670 went to AMS & 100 St originally and BTW 8600-8703 are TMC's, NOT Novas!
Geez, the B69 already had enough cuts over the years and its already infrequent, now it might be evry 1/2 hour all times except nights, crazy. Same goes with the M21, its like they WANT to put some routes on extinction.
[Geez, the B69 already had enough cuts over the years and its already infrequent, now it might be evry 1/2 hour all times except nights, crazy. Same goes with the M21, its like they WANT to put some routes on extinction.]
No, what "they" want to do is respond to an actual drop in ridership. Passengers have the right to change their travel patterns, and Transit has the right to respond in kind.
The theory that "they" should keep running empty buses for the sake of running them - in the vain hope that somebody might feel like riding - is silly at best, and fiscally irresponsible at best.
define 1st quarter of 2003-i think we would all like to know when that is.
Is next week soon enough? 'cuz that's when they're due to start coming in...
David
Should be no later than March (second quarter would mean no later than June; third quarter = September; fourth quarter = December).
unfair, the Bx36 shouldn't be cut on weekends, it is the only descent running bus some places have like Soundview, West Farms and Tremont(177).
Any specifics on the M5, M79, and M86 schedule changes?
The B14 sees an increase of service on Saturdays, but a decrease of service on Sunday. Interesting...........
Da Beastmaster
None
Just adjustments on running time or recovery time
No change in headway
Thank You
Had to go to a seminar this afternoon in DC, so I took the 1C to work and got a ride into DC later. Got Orion V 2148 out there. After the seminar ended, I was debating about taking the metro or a bus, so since we were at 12th and K, I nixed the metro idea since I did that yesterday when I had to be at the seminar at 6:30AM and walked up to 15th St. where the 16Y was about to pull out. It was signed "16Y Special". I guess WMATA hasn't programmed the destination into it yet. Well, there really isn't a landmark of a destination other than Columbia Pike and Walter Reed Dr. They could call it Barcroft since that's the area it serves.
Had Metro E 4102 on that bus. It got pretty full, about 25 people or so. At 19th and I, we picked up quite a few people and had to wait a few minutes while they loaded on a wheelchair. Once we turned onto E St., it was pretty cool. We got on the "E St. Expressway" and went right next to the State Dept. and really close to the Kennedy Center. Took this bus to Columbia Pike and Glebe Rd. and got on the 23C, Metro D 9781 to Ballston. First time on either one of those, so get to mark two more buses off. Usually, I'm on the 23A if anything. The 23C has all sorts of destinations. Usually Shirlington or Ballston, but sometimes Crystal City as well. This one said "Mclean/Langley" which is really the CIA building.
Saw a lot of the new MTA MCI's running on the 900 series commuter runs. They look sharp in the MTA color scheme.
Sounds like the 16Y is pretty well used.
I saw a C40LF on Mass Ave heading inbound at Westbard (Little Falls Library) at about 5:10 this afternoon. Sign said NOT IN SERVICE and it was in the left lane. No idea why it was there nor did I catch a number. Did see 9259, a Western bus, deadheading from a D5 run. Does anyone know if the D5 has runs from Bladensburg? I highly doubt it does.
Yeah, the I was pleasantly surprised to see how many people were on the 16Y and this was only 4:30. I'm sure by 6 or so, its pretty crowded as well. I'd like to see more routes like that into Arlington/Alexandria to help with the overcrowding on the Orange/Blue lines. Other express services up Connecticut or 16th St. would be nice too.
I think the D5 comes out of Western. Maybe a stray run is from Bladnesburg, but I'm pretty sure they're Western buses. Makes sense that they could deadhead back pretty quickly after their run to Westbard.
I saw today, 9702 running on the F8 and have two Orion VIs with non working signs, 2051 (blank) and 2061 (NOT IN SERVICE). I saw Neoplan artics on the S2 (5313) and on the 54(number unknown). I saw 4102 at around 6:15 heading for a 16Y trip, it was going on northbound 14th Street. That is all the fun I had today.
I've been noticing a lot of Orion VI's lately without the banner on the top, too. I wonder if they're going to put something else up there. I mean, they're not new anymore, as they were here in 2000.
Wow, so the Neoplans are being used on other routes finally since Northern has all of them.
That's funny that you bumped into 4102 tonight. Since the 16Y only runs outbound in the evening, it was either late on the 6:00 run or early for the 6:30. I got off of it around 4:55 at Columbia Pike and Glebe Road and the end of the line is about 5 minutes down Columbia Pike past there.
I have some ideas on what to put up there, one maybe "ATTENTION, THE BUS YOU GETTING ON MAY HAVE A BACKDOOR PROBLEM, OK IT IS POSSIBLE IT HAS A BACKDOOR PROBLEM, OK, IT HAS A BACK DOOR PROBLEM, SO SUE US!!!.
I know it's too long but its just a suggestion. Southern's Orion VIs didn't have the banners placed on them (THANK GOD). Also, Landover's 2042, 2045 and 2053 had theirs taken off over a year ago and 2009 from Four Mile Run the same thing happened. Any bus 2082 and up won't have the banner.
LOL! Ugh, I can't count the number of times I've been on one of those where either they back door wasn't operating at all, or got stuck, then it wouldn't close all the way.
I didn't realize that 2082 and up didn't have theirs. 2009 was one that came to mind when I saw it this AM on my way to work.
They actually talked about the back doors in a CITY PAPER a while back. I saw first hand knowledge of those things, riding them practically on every bus trip I take. Those problems began when they were first in service. About a month after they were in service, I took an F14 home from the Naylor Road Station and the driver said that the back door wasn't working.
Bus # 2000 (38B/Arlington Metrobus Branding) has infrared beam emitters at the top of each door panel, near the meeting edge. When you place your hand on the edge of the door, thereby breaking the beam, it is supposed to open itself, of course this wasn't really the case when I tried it back in December..when I lost my notebook.
Interesting. They need to do something about those back doors, they suck big time. There has been no problem with the New Flyer back doors that I know of.
Saw 9258 on a Western route can't remember which one though.
so daimler chrysler is finally producing these buses. they better hurry. the first quarter is due to end 3/31/03. what ever happened to the rest of the articulated order.
I hope the Orion7's get here ASAP, not because I'm interested in the Orion7's themselves, but the fleet changes they are going bring.
Not me! I don't want the CNG Orion 7's to come yet, that means that the TMC Buses at JG have to leave! NOOOOO!!!!
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
Well you don't have to fell so bad! At least those TMC's will still be within the Brooklyn area!
This morning, I see my Orion V pulling away from the bay a full 6 minutes before it is susposed to. I then see the bus pull up to a different bay. Run over there and see that the shelter reads 6 37 96 WESTBOUND. Turns out they decided to change all the stops at Grosvenor for some peculiar reason but didn't bother to put up any signs in advance or anything on the website. My driver told me that it had been posted in the garage for a week. This is a really dumb idea in my opinion (as well as that of the bus driver) since it creates a real jam with 37s and 96s using the same stop at rush hour.
Here is the new layout:
NORTH
TUCKERMAN LANE
UNUSED
---------------------
UNUSED (pre 9/1/02 37)
---------------------
UNUSED (9/1/02 to 2/4/03 37, 47 pre 9/1/02)
---------------------
46 TO MEDICAL CENTER
---------------------
CROSSWALK TO PARKING/STATION ENTERANCE
---------------------
WMATA J5 TO SILVER SPRING
---------------------
6 TO MONT MALL, 37 TO POTOMAC, 96 TO MONT MALL (formerly 6 only, both directions)
---------------------
6 TO WHEATON AND PARKSIDE (formerly 96)
---------------------
UNUSED
DRIVEWAY OUT
Also, for anyone paying attention, during PM rush, the 6 serves Parkside on trips to the mall. Where does the 6 stop then?
I honestly believe the old way was much much better.
With Ride-On seemingly aimed at bringing Orion VII's into the DC area, my question is this:
Outside of California and the west coast, why are Gilligs becoming less popular bus choices? It seems like NFI and Orion are the two dominant companies. Is it because the Phantom has such an out dated look? Is it because the company is located in California?
Any answers?
Gilligs are becoming less and less popular because more and more agencies are finding out what crap they are. They are cheap buses. Believe me, drove Gillig Phantoms for all too many years. And look at the larger orders that went to Minneapolis, etc. -- all those did was generate lawsuits because the quality wasn't what Gillig purported it to be, and when the buses were delivered, they were falling apart already.
The agency I work for got rid of all their 1983 and 1989 Gillig Phantoms and kept the 1980 RTS's which are still going strong.
I think Gillig is heavily based on customers from Seattle, Honolulu, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Omaha, Kansas City, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, Denver, Oklahoma City, Des Moines, New Orleans, SF Bay Area, and Florida as well as many small transits in Colorado, Washington, Oregon and Southern California.
Fairfield, CA still keeps its 1980 Gillig Phantoms in their fleet.
Gillig buses continue to run in Suffolk County for Suffolk Transit. They also ran for Long Island Bus(formally MSBA) up till last year. Suffolk Transit still runs them. The DOT companies should have gotten these models when they had the chance.
Yeah, and they have been the bus of choice for new orders at Valley Metro in Roanoke, VA since 1988. We tried to get Flxibles back then, but the bid came up high, ergo the Gilligs. The latter have great factory customer support, and when our 1994 models suffered from faulty transmissions, Gillig extended the warranty on the whole bus a full two years, even though it was Allison's fault that the trannies were pure crap. We just received an order of Cummins/Voith-powered Phantoms in 2001, and they run like a dream. And our 1991 models with the 6V92TA/HT748 combo are the best runners in the fleet.
-F.
Wow...so was Fairfield one of the first TAs to receive Phantoms? And are the 1980 models still in regular service?
-F.
I don't know if they are the first one to receive. But they did a rebuild project on the four buses with Complete Coach Works at Riverside, CA. They project was to repower them with Series 40 engine, rewire the bus' electrical system with multiplex wires and install new LED headsigns.
Stephen
Hmm...Series 40? How are those? Never heard or rode one.
-F.
Hertz got all their Gillig Low Floors with them.
I don't know much about the "Series 40" engine myself; one of the mechanics at my employer said they are a smaller engine, comparable to the Cummins C8.e.
> don't know much about the "Series 40" engine myself; one of the
> mechanics at my employer said they are a smaller engine
Our Nova LFS busses have the Series 40 engine... They're pure CRAP. They're actually not Detroit Diesel, but rather International engines, with the Detroit Diesel name... medium duty I'm guessing. At any rate... we have constant problems with the engine, overheating, turbo failure, many other mechanical problems. They also make the bus sound like a School Bus. Oh well.
Sounds exactly like all the problems my employer had when they re-engined a bunch of crap buses with the Cummins C8.3 -- overheating, turbo failure, etc. -- and yes, they did sound like school buses too!
Interesting that it's Detroit in name only, I wasn't aware of that.
Don't you mean CRIMINAL Coach Works??
Story has it out here that they get their workers from the local state prison in Chino -- workers are released on a daily work furlough program.
The quality from CCW is marginal. They did a rebuild of 41 of our RTS's a couple years ago and no two of them came back the same way. They recently did our 1989 Gilligs and there must be half a dozen different shades of white paint on them, plus the decal placement varies from bus to bus.
In other words, no quality control at CCW.
Yes, Fairfield was one of the earliest deliveries of Gillig Phantoms back in 1980.....
The very first ones serials 80001-80008 went to Avis Rent-a-Car at San Francisco airport. They had middle wide doors only, no front and rear normal narrow transit doors. In later years this group of 8 buses was transferred to Denver Stapleton, and after the new airport opened in Denver, they disappeared.
Really? So when in 1980 were these built? Before or after NYC's Grumman 870 fleet?
-F.
November, 1980 is when the Avis buses were built. There were eight of them, I had the serials slightly off. The serials were 80001-80008.
Correction:
Fairfield's first Gilligs are 1982 phantoms, not 1980.
I use to ride on Fairfield Flyer's 1982 and 85 Gillig phantoms
back in the mid 80's. If I didn't know for sure, I'll just
say "about" or "approximate(ly)".
Arthur Thomas
I rather have a RTS and a Flxible anyday over a Gillig for shure! :)
Hmm...I don't know, but the Ride-On Gilligs seem decent...are they the exception to the rule?
With the exception of Portland, Seattle, and Minneapolis, Gillig tends to stay away from larger bus systems (ie. NYC Transit, SEPTA, et al). They tend to bid on bus orders from much smaller systems (ie. Ride On, Rockland County, DART First State, et al).
Even Portland thinks they are pure crap and won't order any more.
[Outside of California and the west coast, why are Gilligs becoming less popular bus choices?]
I think we need more facts before we can conclude Gillig sales have been down lately. I have seen many new low-floor Gilligs in the past few years, especially in southeast Florida (Broward and Palm Beach Counties). As ctrabs74's post notes, Gillig is still popular with many smaller transit systems. And Gillig is still selling more high floor buses than much of the competition it has had for the past 15+ years (RTS's, Flxible Metros, Classics). I don't think it is quite time yet to consider Gillig a dying company.
Pittsburgh is supposed be be recieving some Gillig high floors right about now.
No way...SEPTA? I thought they were all about Neoplans, New Flyers, and low floors!
-F.
No, SEPTA is in Philadelphia. Pittsburgh Transit is PAT (Port Authority Transit).
Pittsburgh is PAT and Philadelphia is SEPTA. SEPTA would laugh if Gillig approach them with a bid. WMATA would point to the ones they retired in 2001 and say are you serious?
Yes, you are right. Gillig is not a dying company based on APTA's statistics....
Stephen
My not be a dying company!
When I do a Rockland local line a I BEG for one of our 4 Orion 1s. The Gillig Phantom is NOT a driver friendly bus. The Steering SUCKS, the Ride Quality SUCKS, and the Build Quality SUCKS. I find the Gilligs in the shop more than our 1983-84 MCI MC-9s.
Again take it from someone who drives them, they are horrible buses. I'd rather drive a RTS and I can't stand RTSs except for 1993-94 Built RTSs. :)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Sure it's not a dying company. At least, Gillig Phantoms enjoy one of the longest production period from 1980 and they are made by one company only...
GM Fishbowl: 1959-1987
GM/TMC/Nova RTS: 1978-2002
Gillig Phantom: 1980-Now
Facts cannot be denied while subjective views can be debated,
Stephen
Wasn't the first RTS actually delivered in 1977? (to Long Beach Transit)
Yes, and Houston got some as well in 1977.
Ooops, yup, 15 buses were delivered to Long Beach in 09-10/77 according to omot.org...
Stephen
Oh sure, it may be a fact that they have been produced for 23 years now.
There's also the fact that they are a genuine piece of shit.
Build Dates are NOTHING!
Build Quality is something, Something that Gillig LACKS! They've been on a serious luck streak and that's only because they really haven't taken any "REAL" large scale transit orders. Let the Phantom come and run on NYC, Balitmore and Philadelphia streets and see how fast the Phantoms is phased out! Then bring that plastic Advantage shit and it'll make the Orion VII look like a cadillac.
Now I don't HATE the Phantom. But as a Bus operator who drives them, they just suck for quality.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Unfortunatly, I think that Gillig products will soon be exposed for the junk they are. In the next few months, Port Authority in Pittsburgh will be taking order on 60 units of 35 foot Phantom coaches. Late this year, perhaps early next year, they will be accepting delivery on 160 units of 40 foot Advantage Low-Floor coaches.
The Neoplan Low-Floors that Port Authority has are a mess and they are only 3 1/2 years old. The Classics are going on seven years old and were fairly reliable until the last year or so. Many are developing shifting problems with their transmissions and they are frequently starting to overheat in the summer. Ross Division has thirty Classics... ten of them are on the dead row awaiting repair.
Port Authority is known for their lack of maintenance and frequently runs buses into the ground. Between the poor care, heavy loads, horrible roads, steep hills, hot summers and tons of road salt in the winter, nobody predicts a good fate for these buses which have a very poor reputation in the transit business.
If the Gilligs can survive Pittsburgh, they can survive anywhere. These orders will be a true test for the Gillig name. Not to be a pessimist, but, frankly, I look for them to fall apart fairly quick.
So how old are the Flxible Metros you have there? And what will the Gilligs be replacing?
-F.
The Flixbles are from 1993-1994.
They aready retired an orion aready and that's from 1992.
BTW they got 1501 in so far and it's being used to train the drivers.
Woops! Pics are not comming out! Here's the links.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/40731541/60629187faWVFu
http://community.webshots.com/photo/36398880/60155071MWRinY
Let me help you....:)
Whoops, I guess they dont allow outside posting...
The 40 foot Gillig Advantage coaches are destined to replace the Orion 05.501 coaches 2000-2125 although, some of the 1992 Orion 05.501 coaches (2200-2299) are getting phased out as well.
Several Orions have been dead for years such as 2016, 2067, 2090 and 2111 which were all were fire victims. Many other Orions have caught fire as well, such as 2207, 2211 and 2291, but those ones had little damage and were repaired.
Coaches 2010, 2014, 2025, 2263 and 2264 have all been recently pulled off the road and sent to a storage lot where either they will be auctioned off or scrapped. The telltale sign is when they park them on the dead row and remove the radio and farebox. If it's got the radio and farebox, it's getting fixed, if not, adios.
Even though the Orions have had their fire problems, many of them were due to lack of maintenance. While it is true that the Orion design practically promotes overheating, Port Authority does very little if anything to prevent it. I would rather see them rebuild these buses than order 160 Gillig Low-Floor buses (ewww), but, that is not cost effective at all.
Where is the Classic when you need it? It's a shame nobody has picked up this "lost" design. 160 brand-new Classics would fit the bill. A 35 foot Classic would be awesome to see! I realize I'm in fantasy land and that the Classic will probably never be built again, but, I can dream. Anything that is a high floor at not manufactored by a company with a reputation of building second rate buses would actually do just fine!
Yes, I love the classic look myself. Believe it or not, I rode one for the first time last Friday on the BxM2 (Liberty Lines) from 6th Av/41st St to Broadway/230th St. It rode just as sweet, if not sweeter, than I anticipated!
The way the bus looks - it just screams class, hence the name! I know looks aren't everything, but I'm superficial, what can I say!
My next favorite transit bus is the RTS.
As far as the Phantoms ... well, for those who liken the Orion V to a shoebox-- have you taken a good look at the Gillig Phantom lately???
I think the Phantom could actually look really good if they rounded out the sides a litle bit and did something with the front, like wrap around the windshield and lights. I like the part above the windshield with the destination sign, and I also like those that have the correct trim (which goes around to the back and over the roof).
Yeah...the wraparound lights from the Advantage would smooth out the look greatly. That would give Gillig a Flxible Metro look for sure!
-F.
Don't even disgrace the METRO by putting a Metro-like feature on a Gillig!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Here is something else. WMATA had purchased about 20 of them around the same time that they got the Flxible 9200s. The Gilligs and some of the 9200s ran in Southeast, from Southern and the 9200s have outlasted the Gilligs by a long shot. The 9200s are still running as strong as they have been, except for a breakdown here and there. The Gilligs were retired in 2001, but could have been kept around for a while longer since some routes need 30 footers. Southern is a tough garage for a bus to run out of and alot of their buses are in poor shape, but Flxibles still run.
Well, as far as I know, those 20 Gilligs were made in 1987. They already have more than 12 years in service according to FTA's specs.
As you said, some routes need 30 footers, were there any new replacement of the Gilligs with the same length standard floor buses like the Orion V?...I'm not familiar with WMATA's operations since I went there once only. It is also not cost and effective if you have a smaller number of one particular bus as new parts would be hard to find and it will cost more if the parts are purchased in a small number. And, if WMATA puts 40 footers are put on routes the Gillig used to serve, the clearly signals out there is no reason to keep them, rather than what is said, "Gillig is a piece of shit".
Stephen
Orions transferred from the Landover division and some Flxible Metros have replaced the Gillig run routes in Southeast. Both buses are 30' in length. WMATA usually keep their buses 15 years or more, which make the retirement of the Gilligs sort of odd.
To add, I rode on one of the Gilligs, before they were retired and I got the feeling at that time they might be retired. Those buses on the inside looked like shear crap. To think of it the outside wasn't in special shape either. Alot of them looked like they needed to be rehabbed again.
You know, the entire time I rode Metrobus, I never saw a gillig or even knew WMATA had Gilligs until the later years, close to the time they were going to be retired, in the new scheme. Were they even used that much while they were in service?
For most of their lives they ran out of one division, that being the Southern division in Southeast Washington. Some began their careers at Bladensburg, some running on the old U6. None ran in downtown DC, or out in the suburban routes. Correct that I do remember seeing a couple running in downtown near George Washington University, forgot route. They were the last WMATA buses with roll destination signs and those were changed to electronic destination signs around 2000. They were retired a year later.
Yeah, I remember those Gilligs you're referring to by GW. It ran on the route to Kennedy Center, an "M" route, I believe. The first time I saw it, I had no clue what kind of bus it was because to me it looked so much different than the ones Ride On had.
And that WMATA order of Gilligs was plagued with problems before they were even delivered. WMATA would not even accept them, the original order was for a quantity a lot more than the 20 they finally accepted. Some of the rejects went (after a complete rebuilding at Gillig before ever going into service) to Island Transit on Whidbey Island in Washington. Another was painted in SF Muni colors to use as a demo,it ran for one day in Muni-land, and Muni said "what a piece of crap".
A lot more than 20, interesting. I'm sort of surprised that they didn't go with Flxible for that order. I believe that the DC government purchased them (correct me if I am wrong), that is why they never ran outside of a DC garage. These were the last buses by the way with roll destination signs. I guess Gillig was the low bidder here.
There were at least ten more than they actually took deliver of...in other words, 30 ordered, but only 20 accepted. The Gillig production records I have show six going to an agency in Washington, four more to an agency in California.
I guessing that's the reason why MUNI went to get 30 Foot Orion 1's and 40 Foot New Flyer D40's
Yup...the Orion 01.502's at Muni came after they tried the Gillig demo. And promptly rewrote specs so Gillig couldn't build what they want.
As for the D40's, Gillig never even tried on that one, they knew they couldn't build what Muni wanted back in 1984 when the 4500's first came into San Francisco. There were some of them on the streets until recently, believe it or not, even with the thrashing that Muni gives their equipment.
You're right about it all, Trevor. Especially the steering. I spent the summer of 1997 at home, being paid MORE than if I was working for a living, due to Gillig steering tearing my shoulder apart, having a surgery, and having one heck of a good workman's compensation lawyer. (He even went after Gillig and got some $$$ from them for me!!)
All these bus fans in here that have never WORKED in the bus industry think they're such great buses. Let those who have driven or maintained buses give the REAL, TRUE statements.
Tell ya what, stick anyone who thinks Gilligs are great buses behind the wheel of one and make 'em drive eight hours a day for a couple weeks. They won't want to even LOOK at a Gillig after that. Pure garbage on wheels.
Funny thing is, I was out on my regular route today (as usual....) and one of the layover zones is quite busy with half a dozen different routes. The buses in front cleared out, except for someone who had a Gillig. (Driver in at the mall taking a dump.) So I thought I'd be nice and move his bus up for him. That couple hundred feet in that piece of shit Gillig felt like I was driving a garbage truck. Gimme my D60LF any day....anything but a Gillig.
I'm sorry to hear that you have a such bad experience on those 1990 Gillig Phantoms. However, did you drive or ride on a newer Gillig (like 1996 or later) with Cummins engines? I would like to know how you feel about them? If you still consider them a piece of crap, then I have no further things to say.
The reason I raised up all these replies is that I wanted to promote a two-sided opinions about Gillig buses showing the facts I found (Gillig is still selling their Phantoms and displayed this only diesel 40ft Standard Floor bus in APTA Expo) and the bad experience you had (Being kind to a collegue to move his bus and got hurt) in a healthy environment. At least, the starter of this thread would know more about Gillig buses and base on these points we both make, he is able to draw his own conclusions and opinions about Gillig before he personally rides or even drives a Gillig bus in the future.
Regards,
Stephen Lam
Driving-wise, I don't know much about the Phantom, but I can say that driving the Gillig Advantage low floors is a depressing experience. The driver's cabin is very dark, very isolated, and not all that well arranged. The Gilligs do have a very few features which I appreciate, but unless I want to deliberately piss myself off (which I do from time to time, just to remind myself how much f&$%ing better Flxibles are), I avoid them.
Amen! Flxibles are SO much better. It really saddens me that TARTA in Toledo is replacing their Metros rapidly with those Advantages. The first time I stepped into one was at their facility, and compared to the at-home feel of the Flx, I was NOT impressed.
-F.
Crap is Crap! We have 1995 and 1998-99 Gilligs on my property, CRAP CRAP CRAP! When I do a local, I always snatch up a 1988 Orion 01.508 that rides like a dream!
Again, drive one for just 2 hours not even the whole 8 and you'll be screaming bloody murder!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I see...well, no matter how you think they suck in quality as well as how crap they are, there would be new orders that fulfil the demand of this "crap" bus. Until the last one rolls out of Hayward, I will still think they are made in quality for passengers and TAs, if not drivers....
Regards,
Stephen Lam
They are not "made in quality".
The biggest reason Gillig gets the orders is that they are the LOW BIDDER.
Gillig Phantoms are LOW BID JUNK. Basically a school bus with an exit door and transit seats (and there are PLENTY of Gillig Phantom school buses out here in California....but you don't see school districts buying them any more -- a bunch were built in 1986-1988, and after that,w ord got around how bad they are)
I would like to see some officials documents / meeting notes to prove they are low bidders. If not, then the words "Gillig is low bidder" are not well proven...
Stephen
You need proof that Gillig is a low bid bus?? Well, in the state of PA, all TA's are required to give their order to the lowest bidder. Sometimes TA's will try to wiggle out of this by claiming a manufactor didn't can't/won't fully meet their specs, but, this is rare. PAT is getting 60 Gillig Phantom coaches and 160 Advantage coaches sometime this year. The only way Gillig could get the order is to be the lowest bidder. Sorry I don't have any "official documents," but, there is proof. They couldn't have recieved the PAT order if they were not lowest bidder.
Ok, that tells another story....was Gillig involved in PAT's earlier orders?.....
Also, SEPTA as well as other small TAs in PA would have Gilligs in a way which is the state of PA's requirement...
How about other TAs who ordered Gilligs?...
Stephen
Dude, If the manufacturer of a product has little confidence in the product, does not bid on large transit system orders, and brands itself a "Medium" duty bus manufacturer, there is SOMETHING seriously wrong with the product. Having little confidence in what you make makes a BIG statement.
Until anyone expeirences a product first hand ( Driving it), no one can make a fair bad or good judgement about the product. Gilligs are not even in the same category of bus that buses from Orion, NABI, NFI, or any given RTS are ( Gillig= Medium duty bus, All others= heavy or super heavy duty bus).
I'd like to pose a question to "Gillig Phantom"....
Do you WORK for Gillig Corporation?
For someone who has been in the USA for five years or so, professing how great one particular type of bus is, with absolutely NO experience driving or maintaining them, it sure smells fishy that you are professing how great a bus they are. Only someone who works for Gillig would do so.
I know I will get alot of crap for this but I have to put in my 2 cents. When I worked for CCW one of my projects was to repair the Gillig "FLAME THROWERS" at LAX..... and there was plenty. I couldnt tell you what year these buses were or models but that is where I learned to hate Gilligs. LAX #69 was towed in as usual with a rear electrical fire. I noticed that Gillig must have ran out of wiring looms for that part of the system so they handmade there own. For some reason they used all the same guage and color for these wire looms which made it near impossible to repair. It took weeks of locating burnt and completely missing wiring to even make the bus run. After I got all that done it was time to repair the body and engine compartment. I have never seen so much bondo used on a new bus. The floor in the rear where it meets the engine compartment is a VERY POOR design. The wood was already rotted out as there is no drainage and some jackass never underecoated this area on EVERY Gillig I have ever worked on. Where the fiberglass front end meets the aluminum roof line there is a small gap that collects water and in turn lets the water into the front electrical compartment.This was a major cause of electrical problems related to the front electrical systems. I was told by CCW to make a full report of what could be done to make the Gillig better. My report had 51 things that I found could be improved and ease work trying to be preformed on these buses. I was invited to tour the Gillig plant and took my report directly to them. I was told that the Gillig brothers have been making quality products for many years and that they are working on all the problems associated with the elctrical systems and poor drainage.(I guess when the brothers died.....quality went with them). On the tour when I pointed out the flaws in the way a person was installing panels with no undercoating behind them and no "baby shit" to keep the panel from coming loose and rattling. I also pointed out that the supports they use for the skirt panels was to flimsy and they allowed the skirt panels to bulge out. I was politely asked to leave. I guess they didnt want to hear from someone who actually has to maintain these horrible cattle cars they try to pass off as buses. They are a poor riding bus, most are miserable to drive, electrical nightmares. I own 2 Gilligs (ex Torrance Transit 439/440) and these miserable hunks of crap are not worth the ground they destroy. They are fully operational most of the time but we have a saying around here about them...... YOU HAVE TO WORK ON THEM 6 DAYS A WEEK JUST TO GO OUT FOR A SUNDAY TOW......... I think its funny as all these people that have no experience working on or maintaining any type of bus always have there opinions of what is the best bus. Try maintaining a fleet of these wonderful Gilligs and then post how great they are. You cant talk good or bad about something you have limited knowledge of.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
gmartic wrote: I think its funny as all these people that have no experience working on or maintaining any type of bus always have there opinions of what is the best bus.
And I'm going to be hammered over this as well most likely...
Many fans seem to decide the "best" bus strictly on one or more of the following which are how the bus looks appearance wise, which one has comfortable seats and ride and which ones they don't see littering the side of the road on a daily basis as well as being told a drivers first impression of a new bus that is on the property (which usually is a good impression from comparing a new equipment to the older equipment until they are stuck driving it 8 hours a day).
I definately agree with you that the people that actually have to work on them and drive them for a living are a better source of determining whether a bus is good or not.
Two things I rarely see pointed out though in the decisions made on which is worse and better are the following items. Specs and maintenance proceedures. Some systems insist on certain components on a bus even if the component isn't recommended for that bus. PAT proved this well with the Neoplan low floor order when it insisted on an untested rear axle which both Neoplan and the Feds didn't recommend using as it hadn't been tested on that model. This basically created structural and mechanical problems that have been attributed to the axle that may not have occurred if PAT wasn't so insistant on this particular axle. Also maintenance plays a lot into how well a bus will run and if it will be a good or bad bus. If the term "preventive maintenance" is a foreign term to the transit system, your going to have nothing but problems on any bus.
While I don't drive or maintain buses on a daily basis (but do work and operate buses at the Ohio and Pittsburgh bus museums) I have had some experience with dealing with various makes but still look towards those that do drive and maintain them for their living to get additional info on the various buses out there as they are the best source of making the determination of what's good and what's bad.
I have to come to the defense of Gillig Buses. In my travels around long island, i always waited for a Gillig Bus. Those were my favorite to ride. I wasnt thrilled about the Grumman buses because they had no windows and the trip could be very uncomfortable if no airconditioning on the trips(had that once on a N32). Suffolk Transit operates a fleet of Gillig buses and they have no complaints there.
Even back in 1996, when i went to las vegas, CAT(Citizens Area Transit) was operating Gillig buses. I was on one of them. I wanted to get on the Grumman too, but wasn't able too. Im impressed that Suffolk still runs them and am amazed they never order the RTS model.
BUT--you are a passenger, a bus fan.....NOT a driver or mechanic who has to deal with them. Leave the REAL statements to the professionals in the field.
But there's an earlier post here by Mike that even students Univ. of Iowa can handle a fleet of Gillig. If the experienced mechanics couldn't do so, then either they are not well-equipped with skills to work with buses or they just simply need to find a better working environment rather than facing a Gillig.
Stephen
Some companys did seem to like them. Our Foothill Transit was started with almost nothing but Gilligs and for years have stayed loyal to Gillig. The maintenence cost for this fleet from the beginning was well over the average for companies with the same amount of other types of buses. They have now moved to Orion. As buses get more technological there is also a huge rise in the cost of maintaining them. The Gilligs from the beginning always required more maintenence as there were so many problems, especially electrical and suspension. Most companies that recieved this low bid bus knew that there was alot of extra maintenence and expenses but unfortunately they were stuck as Gillig was low bidder. On the good side of Gillig.... it sure did teach alot of companies that you have to keep this junk running and operable to make roll out. Before you make judgements of my statements about Gillig.......please go to work on a fleet of them and then get back to me. I would love to hear this...... Just because a bus is clean or has nice windows or seats or the transfer holder is gold plated.... doesnt make it a good bus.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Transfer holder? What's that?
We have up on transfers a couple years ago.....in favor of day passes. And now they are machine issued and machine read. So we don't have to handle transfers that some scumbag had rolled up behind his ear, in his shoe, hat, or crotch. Funny thing is, they don't argue with the machine when the machine blurts out "Pass Not Valid".
As far as I know, LAX Gilligs are the only non-diesel, LNG Gilligs operating in service now. Is that one of the reason? I'm sure OCTA had something wrong with the LNG NABIs as well. They didn't pay the entire amount and NABI was kind of upset. (Someone who knows this more please correct me)
An interesting point is made here, it seems most of CCW's work was to rebuild buses, especially Gilligs. I know Montebello had their RTS repowered there. But if Gillig is really a crap bus, why would those TAs still trying to repair their older Gilligs? Why don't they just retire them and buy new buses other than Gillig? A classic example is that you guys helped Fairfield to repower their grandma Gilligs. Also, LADOT is repowering their 1985 Gillig with Series 50 and ISC engine...
I feel bad to hear you had an unpleasant trip in Hayward. My brother, on the other hand, went to the APTA last Sep. He said New Flyer, Gillig and Cummins all answered his questions in detail. However, NABI seems didn't care about the visitors to the APTA that day. They were even just celebrating in their desk without offering some greatings to NYCMTA, NJ Transit and CTA's officials.
Stephen
Why dont they just retire them and buy other than Gillig????? Are you going to buy these companies new buses? The program for the LAX Gilligs was almost 10 years ago at CCW. Most companies that are rebuilding buses do because of the new technologies that are available and improved systems. A 12 year old bus is not rebuilt with 12 y/o specs. The cost of rebuilding a bus correctly would be about 100 grand, cost of buying new to replace (if there is funding available)is about 3 hundred grand. A rebuilt bus is good for another 7 years minimum according to DOT/FTA. If you have your fleet rebuilt then you still have your current in-house inventory of parts available without the need of buying a complete new inventory for newer different types of buses. Its all a matter of dollars and cents.
I think there are a lot of more reasonable reasons I can come up with rather than an assumption of a less confident manufacturer.
1. Delivery date
2. Specifications
3. Production schedule
4. Total number of buses in one order
5. Order Inventories such as engine transmission.
6. Options
Stephen
Gillig hasn't bid on a SEPTA order. That says a lot about them right there. To my knowledge, this is the first time Gillig has bid on a PAT order.
Just because no other systems in PA have Gilligs, doesn't mean they were a high bidder and lost. It more than likely means, they didn't bid at all.
I gotta disagree with you, classicsrule, on the one point that no other systems have Gilligs in PA.
New Castle, Westmoreland County and Charleroi in Western PA all have or have had Gilligs. Harrisburg also has Gilligs. There may be some in Eastern PA as well as in Central PA but I'm not sure off the top of my head. Regardless, they are all small systems, where Gillig is better suited due to the lighter service required out of them.
Amtran in Altoona now has Gillig Advantage low-floor buses.
JD
Well only TOR,LOOP,Long Beach City Bus,HART,Suffolk Transit,and GBTA are the complanys in the NYC Metro Area to have Gilligs running today.
LIBus and Danbury HART used to run Gilligs
99.9% of the transit properies orders come off of Low Bidding. The Transit Properties right specs of what they want on a bus then the bids are sent out to the manufacturers. From that point, who ever comes back with the cheapest price, usually gets the contract. There ARE times where a TA won't pick the low bidder, but for most part this is how orders are acquired.
Now, you do have some manufacturers that will LOW BALL a bid just to get the contract.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I'll bet he doesn't even realize that just about any time a bus is bought with Federal Transit Administration funds, the low bidder gets the order.
The USA is NOT like most other foreign countries where bus companies go to a manufacturer because they like their looks, quality, etc. and then pays for it out of the companies' own pockets.
Here in the USA, probably 99% of transit bus purchases are funded by Federal grants from the FTA, with matching state and local funds.
So, in other words, RTS and Flxible could be the lowest bidder at the time NYCMTA, NJ Transit, CTA bought their buses?...
Exactly!!!!!
Lowest Bid for what the Properties want!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I know APTA's data might be suspect, but these are the top 13 bus operators in the U.S. according to their website:
1 MTA New York City Transit/MTA Long Island Bus
2 Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transp Authority
3 Chicago Transit Authority/PACE Suburban Bus
4 Southeastern Pennsylvania Transp Authority
5 New Jersey Transit Corporation
6 Washington Metropolitan Area Transportation Auth
7 New York City Department of Transportation
8 Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority
9 Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County, Houston, TX
10 San Francisco Municipal Railway
11 Mass Transit Administration, Baltimore, MD
12 Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority, Atlanta, GA
13 Metro Transit, Minneapolis, MN
Interesting, isn't it, that most of the twelve largest bus operators in the U.S. have never placed an order with Gillig, and none (to my knowledge) have placed a repeat order. You're talking about twelve different operations, most of whom do purchase low bid buses. I believe these operators, combined, have operated every other major bus model that has been sold in the U.S. over the past two decades - the RTS, Classic, Flxible Metro, New Flyer, Orion, Ikarus/NABI, MAN, Volvo, Neoplan ... did I leave anybody out? And yet none of them have given significant, repeat business to Gillig?
And what about the fact that Gillig, by all indications, participates in so few of these bids? If they had a truly great product that they felt confident could operate sucessfully anywhere, why not try to lock up a large, multi-year order to keep the Hayward plant running for years? Why not make a sale to a big city, and show everyone that Gilligs can handle the demands?
No, I think Gillig is happy just to sell their 'medium-duty' products to smaller operators who stand a better chance of getting 12 years out of their Phantoms and Advantages than a big-time transit operator would.
Jim D.
I have a different view on that.
http://www.apta.com/sites/transus/bus.htm
According to the above link, only these TAs have more than 1000 buses
Chicago, IL CTA
Denver, CO RTD
Houston, TX Metro
Los Angeles, CA MTA
Minneapolis, MN Metro Transit
New York, NY NYCDOT
Newark, NJ NJT
Philadelphia, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Washington, DC Metro
At least there are at least a certain about of Gilligs operating in Denver and Minneapolis. Also, Pittsburgh is going to be the third city.....
Stephen
The reason they only showed a diesel Phantom at the expo was to woo those looking for VALUE. Not flashy styling or features, but a low-bid bus, and that's what the Gillig is. And yes, the Cummins-powered Gilligs are a treat. Ever rode one with an L-10 and a Voith? SWEET! Even better is one with a 6V92 and an HT-748. What a musical bus!
-F.
Sure and that all goes back to the basics....
Stephen
Fred, what's your favorite Flxible bus?..
I like them with ISM. Having with VTA repowering them, the sound is still quite same as with LT10 on the 1992 models and they feel more powerful. But sure I like the 1993 models more since it comes with an original M11.
I like Voith Transmissions a lot and that's why I like Gillig because it is the only manufacturer that promotes Voith with Cummins in their new buses these days.
Stephen
Not TRUE AGAIN!!!!!!
Neoplan and Orion also promotes Voith Transmissions in thier packages!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I know Neoplan and Orion promote Voith, but none of their customer bought them with Voith in a large order....
For Voith Orion, I knew there are few in Brampton Transit in Canada, and Cyride Oriskany, NY
Stephen
My favorite Flxible (and bus of all time) is the New Look, most notably the 1969 and later versions with A/C. My favorite "modern" bus design is the Flxible Metro/Grumman 870. And yes, Gillig most certainly does promote Cummins/Voith combos....a great aspect of latter Phantom models. Flxible actually pushed quite a few on the Left Coast, even though they were mostly Detroit/Allison buses.
-F.
Yeah, I think VTA is only the current TA operating Detroit Diesel Series 50 and Voith D863.3.
Stephen
VTA is not the only one.
WMATA has 1994 Flxible METRO-Ds (#9823-9835) with Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC & Voith D863 ADRs. Ride On's 1994-1997 Gillig Phantoms with the SAME engine and tranny combo (DDC & Voith) AND Ride On's 1993 Flxible METRO-Ds #5700-5703 have Series 50s with Voiths. Westchester County's Bee Line 1991 Flxible METRO-Bs have Detroit Diesel Series 92s with Voith D863 ADRs. Also the American Airlines Gillig Phantoms out at Kennedy Airport share the Detroit Deisel Series 92 with a Voith D863ADR Tranny.
I'm pretty sure there is bunch of others if people wish to tack on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I can add to that. OCTA, the transit Mr. Hoskins is working for, has 89-90 Gilligs with Series 50 and Voith...
I rode them twice when I was in Salt Lake City last year for the Winter Olympics.
Stephen
Yep, driven the newer ones with Cummins M11's, also C8.3's....I still think Gilligs are CRAP. The dashboards all fall apart, the driver's area is cramped. They steer AWFULLY, they ride like a tugboat in a typhoon. They rattle like hell, even two days out of the factory. And driver's visibility really sucks.
WHY do Gillig Phantoms still get sold? Because Gillig makes a cheap piece of crap and is usually the LO BIDDER whenever some agency wants a high-floor bus.....if Gillig can even deliver what the agency specifies (and we know they won't even bid on NYCTA, SEPTA, Chicago CTA, SF Muni orders....)
I have heard about the quality issues from so many that have to drive or maintain the Gilligs from across the country that I can't believe they are still allowed to manufacture these things.
Even the few of the drivers, mechanics and transit system office types that attempt to defend Gilligs can only come up with the feeble arguement of an excellent turnaround on parts. I ask the mechanics or office people how often do they need to call Gillig for parts over calling for other makes and they usually just shut up after that as they then realize that the Gilligs constanty need more than routine maintenance work done on them to keep them on the road...
If Gillig makes cheap crap bus, how about Nova, as mentioned by a Disney driver?
Why did they stop making Nova RTS and continue to produce the LFS?....
Also, when Flxible and RTS were the best selling buses, why didn't they lower the price tag so that they can sell more buses and earn more? I'm sure they can do that and as you said, RTS and Flxible can sure dominate their entire country with large, medium, and small TAs
Sorry to RTS and Flxible fans, but this is my unanswered question why Gillig still survived during the 80s and 90s when RTS and Flxible were selling like hot cakes...
This also indicates that who is the largest customer (mid-size and small TAs)....even with the orders from large TAs in those years....RTS and Flxible are still gone, why?......
I hope I didn't offend to those RTS and Flxible lovers. I would just like to point out to those anti-Gillig that they should consider and look into this fact. :P
Stephen
>Why did they stop making Nova RTS and continue to produce the LFS?
From what I'm to understand... there wasn't enough orders... as much as I do love the RTS, it was getting a bit old. Low Floor busses seem to be the current trend, and sales of low floors seem to be on the up swing.
In addition... I think NovaBUS had thier way with the RTS, and probably turned it into cheap crap. *sigh*
The LFS could be a halfway decent bus, if NovaBUS would work out thier quality control issues, stop using cheap parts, and fix some of the design flaws that plague the bus, such as: how it warps the tires, how the A/C leaks on drivers and consoles, how the dash will shoot sparks out onto the driver, and then short out completely. The list goes on. And on. And on.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Nova blew it. The RTS was a cash cow that they could have milked for years, the way GM-Canada continued building the New Looks for a decade after U.S. production stopped (and the Classic for another decade after that).
Jim D.
Yeah, they probably should have modeled the design into a more modern looking thing, instead of making it almost exactly the same way and making the WFD version so ugly.
It's too bad the LF RTS was never produced. That would've been interesting to see.
yea it will .
I've heard rumors that Nova did produce a drawing or design of the low-floor RTS bus. Has anyone here ever seen such a drawing?
Jim D.
Yeah, the LF is a pretty sweet-driving bus. You get out of one, and you don't have that weird feeling when you get back into a car. Probably because the New Flyer feels more car-like.
-F.
Funny enough, I almost drove the Gillig Phantom during my brief career as a bus driver back in the mid-1980's. I left the company a couple of months before they purchased the Phantoms (up to then, their fleet was all RTS 03 and 04 models). My only disappointment was that, having grown up riding GMC and Flxible New Looks, I thought it would have been neat to drive a bus with slide-glide front doors. Thankfully, the slide-glide door is alive and well thanks to New Flyer, orion and other manufacturers.
Jim D.
I think the plug type doors are almost extinct. The companys that I saw use them, well, at least Neoplan, switched to slide-glide on their more recent models. You can see an example of these between SEPTA's 40ft and 60ft Neoplans (the artics are the newer ones)
Today was the first day in about 4 months I've laid my hands on a Gillig, and it was by default.
I was prepping to head out to my relief point, which I always take a MCI MC-9B or a another D4000 to the relief spot. No D4000s were in the yard (all on the road) and none of the 9Bs would start up due to the bitter cold. What was left, Gilligs and Orions. ALL of the Orions were burried so I was forced to drive a Gillg Phantom to my relief point.
For the 10 minutes I was in that seat, it was the worst 10 minutes of my day. It was a reminder of why I picked a run that uses MCI D4000s. The Seat was horrible, the ride was jerky and bouncy. And my biggest gripe, THE FRIGGIN' THING FISHTAILS ON EVERY TURN!
Message To Gillig Phantom.....DRIVE ONE and YOU'LL CHANGE THAT SCREEN NAME REAL FAST!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Sounds like the 9B's could use some block heaters! I guess the 6V92 is tough to get going in the cold!
Yeah, I cant stand Gilligs either. I thank God they are gone from LI Bus. Those Phantoms we had rode like school buses, and were slow and awful to maneuver. I dont think any of the drivers liked them, and those stuck with them always looked VERY unhappy.
They still have them in Suffolk and BOY DO I FEEL BAD FOR THEM!!
To this day, it amazes me how Gillig stays in business.
I was told by a few people who did their driver training in PAT 1501, the brand-new 35 foot Gillig Phantom, that it ran slow. One commented that he thought they were going to get hit trying to pull out of the Park-N-Ride lot which is on an upgrade as it was that slow. I heard once it got going it was alright, but, I'm worried about that poor ride quality everyone talks about, as Pittsburgh roads are amongst the worst in the country.
If Mr. Logan does really hate Gilligs, why do you still work for a TA has operates them? As other boardmates said, there are many large TAs who don't have Gilligs. And I'm sure based on Mr. Logan's safety record, friendly smiles, and the interesting bus trips other boardmates shared with us, NYCMTA, NJ Transit, MTA Maryland, WMATA would open the door to him.....
I still look forward to riding one of your bus and Mr. Steve Hoskins' in the future. By the time, I'm sure this topic will be over and I can still be one of your friends.
Stephen
Well why I still work for them is becuase we can pick lines that don't run them, Like my run is all MCI D4000. However when heading out to a relief point, you can end up with anything.
When I did the Transport of Rockland Local stuff over the summer, whenever I could I would take an Orion 1, I'd drive the Gillig if I had no choice.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I agree with Trevor...I work for an agency that still has Gillig Phantoms. But I also bid to work at a base that has NO Gilligs.
And NOBODY will figure out what run I am driving, as I do NOT publicize it. Why? Because in the past some so called bus fans acted like total assholes on my bus, and I will NOT have that. I have gone into details in the past about what various bus fans have done.....and none of it will ever occur again, as I do NOT let any bus fans know what route I am driving. I may have mentioned what type of bus I drive, but try and find me, we have only 50 of them things....
True, I'm different in that case, I will not tolerate foolishness on my bus. Friends, Regular Pax or even Family, you will be put off quick fast.
As long as you come on, enjoy ride, have a good convo, you are more than welcome to return.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
How about when you see someone on the mirror making graffitis on the back of the bus?
VTA drivers seem to just let that happens....
Oh the the emergency brake gets popped REAL quick and I'm out the seat before the bus is fully stopped!
It has happened before and I scared the purp real good!
Trevor
The passengers who ride our buses are more civilized. I haven't found grafitti on my bus except ONCE in thirteen years with the present employer. I check the bus at the end of every trip.
The one time I found it, I called radio, supervisor came out, and we cleaned it off. Our agency is very good about cleaning it if and when it does show up, which is rare. Keep the buses clean, the stuff doesn't breed more.
>>>...as I do NOT let any bus fans know what route I am driving.<<<
A wise policy.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yup 15 1977's to Long Beach.
Also 151 to Houston.
Also 121 to San Antonia.
Fifteen to Brockton, Massachusetts.
Fifty to Dallas.
Sixty-five to AC Transit, who cancelled the order and they went to San Jose, just down the interstate.
One of the BIG reasons that many early Gillig even got built was that in the early 1980's there was a special tax credit situation for California companies/agencies buying them. (Sales tax was not included on them if they were being delivered to a California operation.)
Once this tax credit stopped, so did many of the orders from California.
Believe me, when you are buying a $150,000 bus with 7.5% sales tax....that amounts to $11,250 per bus -- so Gillig was basically underbidding other manufacturers by that amount when the tax credit was in force. Had that tax credit NOT been in force, there would have been far fewer orders of Gilligs around -- I know of two properties who had bids by Neoplan that were so close to Gilligs, but only a few dollars more, so Gillig won. (My employer had a bid from Neoplan and Gillig on the 1983 buses -- Neoplan's bid was less than $100 different than Gillig's. Had that tax credit NOT been there, we'd have been driving Neoplans.
So in other words, the reason Gilligs are low-bid buses is because they underbid?
-F.
Well, please be advised that Steve is referring to the time that was in early 80s...
There are many TAs in California still order buses from Gillig and this applies to 1997 and after.
VTA - Santa Clara County, CA
Samtrans - San Mateo County, CA
CCCTA - Central Contra Costa County, CA
MST - Monterey County and Salinas, CA
WestCAT - Western Contra Costa, CA
Tri Delta - Eastern Contra Costa, CA
Redding - Redding, CA
FAX - Fresno, CA
MAX - Modesto, CA
MCD - Merced, CA
San Luis Obispo, CA
Fairfield, CA
Santa Clarita, CA
Torrance, CA
Once operated with RTS and went to Gillig
SMART - San Joaquin County, CA
Montebello, CA
Norwalk, CA
LAX Aiport Shuttles
NAPA Valley Wine - Napa Valley, CA
Santa Cruz, CA (Purchased 1983 RTS from Golden Gate but later went for older Gilligs and repowered them with ISC engines while there's still a few 83 RTS left in GGT's property, Santa Cruz is a D40LF town.)
Once operated and left Gillig and went with D40LF and back to Gillig in 2002
Wheels - Livermore, CA
Santa Rosa - Santa Rosa, CA
Once operated and left Gillig and went with D40LF and never back to Gillig
OCTA - Orange County, CA
San Diego, CA
Once operated Gillig but went to Orion for CNGs since Gillig has no CNG buses
Sacramento, CA
Yolo Bus - Yolo County, CA
Foothill Transit - San Gabriel, CA
Only AC Transit has a different case. They left Gillig in 1988 for D40HF/D35HF after the 1983/84 Phantoms. However, they went back to Gillig in 1990-1993 for Gillig 40ft and 30ft. They then again left Gillig and went for NABI 416 in 1997-1998 and NABI 40LFW in 2000. In one of their October meetings last year, they required 40 40ft low floor buses for replacement besides the existing order with Van Hool. Gillig withdrew their bid in the final moment, New Flyer did not meet the bonding criteria, leaving NABI and Orion. They propsed that Orion provides 3 doors for immediate boarding. However, they discovered serveral bugs with Orion and Orion did not came a solution with it. Therefore, NABI won the bid since AC Transit still has options with NABI.
Hope this clears things out of what is happening in California.
Regards,
Stephen
Minor Correction:
LAX Shuttles NEVER had RTS's....the Gilligs they got in 1981 were replacements for an assortment of propane cookie wagons, and hand-me-down T6H5307A's that came from New York City airports (their shuttle services were operated, in those days, by Hudson General Corporation who also ran the shuttle in the NYC airports).
And for those agencies that bought something else and "went to Gillig", let's see if they STAY with Gillig, as most of those are small properties who buy buses about every 7-10 years and then nothing until they wear out an older order.....and usually buy whatever the LOW BID is.
How about TA's went to Gillig, due to Flxible's demise...
VTA-Santa Clara County, CA
MST-Monterey County and Salinas, CA
Arthur Thomas
I have an update for you!
FAX of Fresno went to Orion for CNGs since Gillig
don't sell CNG fuel.
Arthur
Not sure of the status of either property as of today as they are so far away and out in the far corner of nowhere.
Mendocino MTA (Ukiah) I believe has also stuck it out with Gillig Phantoms, though they onle have about seven or eight total, including one of the original two prototypes that was build within the old school bus serial number system(before the 80000 series started). When I visited their facility in 1997, they had a LOAD of 35-foot GM fishbowls in various states of disrepair sitting around their yard, all seemed to come from various former owners. None were in service. As I haven't kept up with new deliveries, I don't know if they have ever received any post-1997 units.
And then there's the case of Riverside Transit Agency, who bought four 30-foot Gilligs, and couldn't get rid of them fast enough. One went to Benicia, the other three back east somewhere. And they haven't looked at Gilligs since in Riverside County. The comments of RTA's maintenance superintendent about those four Gilligs are NOT printable! (They were 1983 units.)
After begging everyday on my school trippers... they finally assigned me the oldest buses in the fleet. TDH 4519's and 5304's.... those were the days....
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Apparently Torrance got a really good deal on the thing....
And Torrance 417-420 were really originally ordered as San Diego Transit 542-545. Torrance needed the buses for 1984 Olympic duties...so they made a deal with San Diego Transit to have their last four buses diverted -- this was done before interiors were installed or any paint work was done. Gillig then built San Diego 542-545 a few months later -- and 542's first public appearance was in Washington, DC at the APTA Expo. Not sure whether it was driven or flat-bedded there; it was in SDT colors but no deals other than fleet numbers (which is the usual way Gilligs are delivered -- properties affix their own graphics / decals.,,,,costs a lot less than to have it done at Gillig.)
-F.
-F.
-F.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
-F.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Look at the bright side...you rolled up in style with a GM artic, and she was in a run-of-the-mill Gillig. Bet that was a neat bus to take on a transatlantic flight!
-F.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
-F.
-F.
-F.
I guess they figured that all the passengers were just tourists who would never come back to ride the bus anyway, why treat them as customers.
It was a big difference when CAT (Citizens Area Transit) came in....nice,new buses, the drivers were all friendly. Oh, and the air conditioners worked...that alone in Las Vegas was worth the price of the bus ride.
-F.
-Fred
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-F.
It sure is a shame to hear the Flxibles are falling apart....but it's good to hear the older 80s models are still in service.
-F.
-F.
-F.
Neoplan has great customer support...I wonder why the MTA doesn't work with them to fix up their Neos...
-F.
-F.
Imagine what the buses would smell like with the cusions absorbing all the bodily fluids....
As for the "good ol' days" at Muni, I'll never forget HEARINg one of their T8H5305's with absolutely NO exhaust system connected to the engine. You could hear it coming six blocks away. It was deafening!
(Those T8H5305's WITH mufflers were bad enough...)
I don't have the slides any more (we both know who has them...) but I had pictures of one MABSTOA Flxible up in the Bronx with bullet holes in it, along with one whole missing window section. Hey, if the a/c doesn't work, that's fine...but it does rain back thee.
Wow that would have been interesting to have seen Neoplans in Orange County as well as L. A. during that time. Seems Neoplan was a non-entity in California during the 80s, the only ones I ever saw besides SCRTD 3300-3714 were the ones AC Transit had. There may have been other California properties that had Neoplans that I didn't know about.
And yes the 1983/84 Gilligs last longer than the Neoplans and they will be replaced by Van Hool this year. The Neoplans were replaced by NABI in 1997. I'm not saying those Neoplans were bad products since Muni's are doing fine now.
Too bad, I came here to the US to study in 1998....and haven't got a chance to ride the Neoplans and make some conclusions about them...
Regards,
Stephen
Some Neoplans were good, some bad. It seemed to be more a matter of how well they were taken care of.
Back in the late 1980's, I drove a Neoplan N116/3 tour bus. It was built in Germany. Looked sharp, drove like a dream, ran like a scared rabbit, but the body was a genuine piece of shit. It shed parts on a daily basis. Someone told me that buses for the European markets were not built to last like their counterparts here in America, because in Europe, the rout bus contract competition is so fierce, companies always had to have the very latest equipment -- so the bodies were not built to last. Here, companies tend to keep things a lot longer -- so the bodies are built stronger.
Absolutely not. Especially not with smaller TAs. Most Gillig buyers are the same ones who had a mostly Flxible fleet within the past 15 to 20 years. They are low bid, and apparently do well for the money. As I understand, Flxibles became a high bid bus when the Metro hit full stride, so therefore many towns like mine went Gillig. They wanted Flxibles, RTS, etc, but had to go with what they could afford due to lack of funding or ridership.
-F.
Gillig is as popular as New Flyer and NABI. Based on APTA's statistics, they sold 2185 buses in 2001 and 2002 whereas 2376 for NFI and 2192 for NABI.
As for Orion, they sold only 123 units in 2001 but they managed to boose that number to 1128 in 2002.
The most interesting fact goes with Neoplan. They only sold 404 buses last two years. That's why I'm glad that Neoplan was awarded with many contracts to build buses for WMATA, Boston, MDTA, and NJ Transit...
Here is APTA's Statistics
Or here:
http://www.apta.com/stats/vehicles/busmkt3.htm
Stephen
My guess is that those numbers represent the buses 'sold' in each year versus the buses actually built during that year. Orion definitely built more than 123 buses for U.S. operators in 2001.
JD
Well, I think you guess might be wrong. My understanding from the APTA's stats is from the first row second column, the words "Built in 2001", and they are written in simple past tense, which implies to me that the numbers are confirmed.
In addition to that, Gillig is known to build diesels Phantoms and Low Floors only. Others like NABI, NFI, Neoplan, Orion, Nova build buses with either CNG or LNG powered. The reliability of hybrid buses that are current being developed by most manufacturers is still in doubt. Also, Gillig didn't build any articulated buses (although I would like to see how strange a Phantom artic will look) whereas NFI, NABI and Neoplan do. This leads me to draw a conclusion that Gillig is perhaps the best selling diesel 40ft buses in recent years.
I would also like to see how Orion built more than 123 buses in 2001.
Stephen
SJSU Library
Well, I could be wrong about Orion. But I drive past their plant in Oriskany once or twice a year, and there are always multiple orders being worked on at any given time. I recall going by their at least once in 2001 because I remember seeing new Orion V's on the lot for RIPTA in Providence, RI (27 built in 2001). I didn't take any photos that day, but I do recall that there were other buses on the lot. I believe Orion also built a batch of model VI low-floors in 2001 for the Los Angeles MTA.
JD
"I believe Orion also built a batch of model VI
low-floors in 2001 for the Los Angeles MTA."
That is correct. 67 Orion VI buses (diesel powered) were built for MTA, but operated by contractor First Transit. These replaced older equipment that First Transit had been leasing from MTA.
<Neoplan was awarded with many contracts to build buses for WMATA, Boston, MDTA, and NJ Transit...>>
Are you sure about MDTA? Last I heard they were getting more NABI low floors. (I am speaking about Miami-Dade Transit, perhaps you were refering to a different MDTA?)
Whoops, the MDTA I was referring should be MTA Maryland, sorry about that...
Stephen
Personally, I don't hold any of APTA's fleet statistics as FACT.
Why?
They've duplicated listings, omitted others, things like that...in years gone by. I think a lot of their mis-information comes from member agencies sending them wrong information, especially when it comes time to post "Largest Fleets" etc. Now if the statistics were posted by FTA (Federal Transit Administration) I might believe them more.
I remember once APTA put out a document listing the largest fleets. In the New York City area, they listed (of course) NYCTA and MABSTOA -- and then curiously, "NYC DOT" (which was Queens, Triboro, Jamaica, Steinway, Command -- right?) And then further down the list was....Queens Bus Lines also listed. And I know the numbers they showed for MY employer did not match our fleet at all.
Because Gillig is NOT a heavy duty transit bus. It's a medium duty bus!
Nuff Said!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Just because most Gillig customers are med-sized to small TAs, does that mean those TAs do not have crowded long routes that go around the clock from early in the morning to late in the midnight while large TA don't have quiet and short routes?
Here are some shots from VTA's Gillig Low Floor.
I was forced to stand and able to take these pictures. I would also be happy to get some more crowded Gillig Phantoms pictures around the Bay Area and other States.
Stephen
I don't believe it's a question of Gilligs being unable to handle large loads. It's a matter of those buses being to be able to withstand the beatings that buses take in the large cities due to poor road conditions.
Jim D.
Can't agree on that either. This means that simiply there are no poor road conditions in med - small cities.
I would also be happy to take pictures of bumpy roads with a Gillig as a background.
Stephen
And will that picture show all the Gillig body fittings that have come looks, cracked, fell off as a result of those bumpy roads?
Stop complaining about having to stand. Just be happy that you weren't pressed tightly against the doors, and your stop didn't get flagged.
I recall reading many years ago that Gillig was requested to send a bus for NYC Transit to consider for purchase but they declined to do so. It had to be either in the late 1980's or early 1990's when RTS were the only approved buses that NYC Transit were buying at the time and they were looking for a second vendor to purchase buses from.
After the Grumman and R 46 fiasco's the MTA implemented a policy that only products that were approved will be considerd for purchase only.
It's a little ironic that only no local transit operator in the Greater New York City area has purchased Gilligs more than once.
I recall Long Island Bus,SC Transit and the City of Long Beach on Long Island were the 3 operators who had Gilligs and to the best of my knowledge never purchased additional buses.
Thank You
[It's a little ironic that only no local transit operator in the Greater New York City area has purchased Gilligs more than once.]
Depending on your definition of "Greater," Rockland County has purchased Gillig Phantoms in multiple orders. Gillig has been the County's only supplier of transit buses since the Orion I's were ordered back in the late 1980's or early 1990's.
Sid,
Having lived in the city and Long Island i am not that familiar with bus purchases other than what i read here on Bus Talk.
I recall that when i was living in Florida Palm Tran and Broward County Transit did indeed have many Gilligs in there fleet including many new buses
Thank You
By the way the reason i know they were new buses was that both agencies number their buses with the last two numbers from the yearc they were purchased
ie-0020 would be a 2000 model and 20 buses were purchased
0115 would be a 2001 model etc
Thank You
One reason that PalmTran and Broward County Transit have so many late-model Gilligs is that Gillig has some sort of deal w/ the state of Florida where any agency purchasing Gilligs gets some sort of price break. (In the 80s and early 90s I think Flxible was the vendor of choice but then Gillig stepped in when Fx went belly-up).
Not all Florida transit agencies have gone this route, for example, Miami-Dade Transit opted to go with NABI for all their post-Flxible orders.
Broward had made several purchases of Gillig low-floor buses. I forget the precise years, but there must be a roster somewhere on the Internet. And Broward had one order of high-floor Phantoms, perhaps in 1996.
Palm Tran may very well have an all-Gillig fleet by now. There were some 1000 series 30-foot Flxibles around a while back, but these may now be history. Palm Tran received high-floor Phantoms in 1996 and 97. The first low-floor Gilligs came, I believe, in 1999 and there have been some new low-floor Gilligs each year thereafter, through 2002. We may not see too many more for a while if Palm Tran's oldest buses now date from 1996 (unless the Phantoms fall apart prematurely, as Steve and others suggest may happen!).
Yeah...the 1000-series Flxes were 1983, IIRC. So they would be a 20-year-old bus by now. Hard to believe, isn't it? Those were some of the first Flxible ADB 30-footers ever built.
-F.
You are wrong about those. PalmTran had 1980 870s, 1982-83 Metros, and the 30-footers in question (1000-series) actually 1990 models. I'm not sure what their current status is, but they are not all that old.
Broward County Transit's Gilligs:
1996: 9601-9635 (not 100% sure about the last number) Phantoms
1999: 9901-9935 Advantage
2000: 0001-0033 Advantage
2001: 0101-0141 Advantage
I have in the past week begun to see some 2002 Gilligs, highest
number seen to date is 0205.
For some reason, BCt temporarily abandoned Gillig in 1997 and purchased 45 New Flyer D40Ls (9701-9745) but its been all Gillig ever since.
If that's the case, then at least Gillig didn't take the chance to prove themselves. Until they do so, is it still early to make conclusions that Gillig buses are certainly not the right buses for New York?
If there's a big order from New York State for Gillig and their buses do fall apart, breakdown and retire in 6 years, then I sure would no longer defend for them.
Stephen
Hi, this is my first post here. I thought I'd add a little to the discussion.
I cannot believe how much some people seem to hate the Phantom and even the Low Floor. In my limited experience I've always thought the Gilligs were pretty solid workhorse buses. Maybe not the greatest but still... And I actually think the Low Floor is a pretty nice bus if it’s specd right.
Here's where I'm coming from--Here's what I've driven at my past employers:
Cambus (Univ. of Iowa)
'86 Phantom 40ft 102in Detroit/Allison
'89 Phantom 40ft 102in Cummins/Voith
'97 Phantom 40ft 102in Cummins/Voith
'98 Orion II <30ft
(Didn't get to drive the '79 Grumman 870 Flxibles, they were rotting out back)
Des Moines MTA
'89 Phantom 40ft 102in Detroit/Voith
'92 Orion V 40ft 102in Detroit/Voith
'94 Phantom 40ft 102in Detroit/Voith
'96 Some Piece of Shit 40ft Blue Bird
'97-'98 Phantom 40ft 102in Detroit/Voith
'98 Dupon Trolley (a Thomas Bus) Cat/Allison
'98 Low Floor 35ft 102in Detroit/Allison (former demo)
'98 Low Floor 40ft 102in Detroit/Voith
'00 D60HF 60ft 102in Detroit/Allison
'00-'01-'02 Low Floor 40ft 102in Cummins/Voith
(Didn't get to drive the RTS, they were rotting out back too)
Not bad for a 22-year-old retired transit driver, eh? I didn't include some of the medium-light duty type stuff.
So basically I was trained and started out on the Phantom. I worked at Cambus from August of 2001 until August of 2002. Except for that Orion II (story for another time) the only 'heavy duty' bus I ever drove was the Phantom during that time. At Cambus, most of the buses went out around six in the morning and stayed out until about five or six when they came in for servicing and a few of them went right back out, let's see, four buses came home at around 9 at night and then the last four came home around midnight-1am. Unlike the MTA in Des Moines, there wasn't a morning and evening peak with a period in the middle of the day where a huge chunk of the buses come back to sit in the garage for a few hours.
What can I say, sure there were some problems but the fleet was in reasonably good shape. There were 4 full-time mechanics and the rest of the maintenance staff were part time student-employees. They were able to keep the 22 40-footers up and running. Only five of them were the newer '97s with the rest of them being the '89s (15) and '86s (2). There was never a bus shortage problem when I was there. I think the Phantoms held up pretty well. Consider that Iowa City's roads do have their bad spots and rough RR crossings and that all of the drivers were 18-19-20-21-22 year old college guys and girls with minimal experience. We ran the shit out of them. Ever see a pitch black curb? Ever see where the curb is breaking away due to buses driving over them? I’m just pointing this out because from some of the previous comments, it would seem that one would expect the fleet to be in a complete shambles under these conditions.
Anyway, in August 2002 I started my four-month stint at the Des Moines MTA where I got to drive some nicer and newer equipment. But that's all I really have to say. There was no religious experience. After driving Phantoms exclusively for as long as I did, I didn't start shouting "Wow! I've been driving crap all this time and now I finally know what a real bus is like!" I mean, a bus is a bus is a bus. From my perspective, I don't see that big of a difference. Certainly not what an outsider might expect from reading the anti-Gillig opinions on this discussion.
I admit I liked some of the other models over the Phantom, but it wouldn't ruin my shift to get pretty much any bus. Actually, the factors most important to me I'm pretty sure are outside of the manufacturer's control. For example, the Des Moines buses up to the ‘92s didn’t have air seats whereas all of the Cambus buses did. And then of the Des Moines buses that did have air seats, they were shitty USSC ones which weren’t all that great anyway. I don’t know who made the Cambus air seats, but they floated you around quite a bit as opposed to kicking your ass like the USSC.
Also there are the engine and transmission options. Case in point, the DMMTA ’97-’98 Phantoms. These give the Phantom a bad name. The story goes that an experiment was tried where ethanol would burn in the cylinders to help with emissions. Whatever they did, these buses wouldn’t accelerate worth dick. So slow off the line these were that safety was compromised in my opinion. It was scary in certain traffic situations. I also suspect electronic controls. Also, some shit-for-brains thought it would be a good idea to put a loud and annoying buzzer on the turn signals and four-ways. Needless to say, I didn’t use these very much. Safety was probably compromised there too. If someone was only exposed to these types of Phantoms, they would probably hate them with an unholy passion. I preferred to receive the ‘89s with the 6V92s despite the age and wear on them. At least they would GO. Same thing with Des Moines’ small batch of '98 Low Floors that are so slow and sluggish with the electronic controls. The driver comforts were nice still, but when compared with the former demonstrator that drives like a bat out of hell or the ’00-’01-’02 Low Floors that are very adequately powered, there was a big difference. The good ones were probably the quickest buses off the line I’ve ever driven. To a Gillig hater, I guess the only fair comparison would be with the ’92 Orion V though.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that even though I may have preferred other buses for various reasons, I really don’t think the Gillig buses deserve some of the comments they received in this discussion. They can be good or bad. I think most of it has to do with the specs, the maintenance attention, the operating environment, etc.
Time will tell how well the Low Floor will hold up. I thought they were pretty damn nice buses though. The pull-down shades were great. I found the visors on pretty much every other bus to be not worth a shit. I also especially liked the fact that the booster fan actually moved quite a bit of climate controlled air in the driver’s direction, and in a quiet fashion too. The layout was good. You could manipulate the destination sign control without the aid of a tire checker! Definitely night and day compared to the Phantom. I think this model has a lot of potential if it can hold up.
Just my $.02. I don’t know if I’ll ever behind the wheel of a bus again so it may be sort of irrelevant to me, but I’ll still follow the goings on with interest.
-Mike
Of course when you come from fake trolleys and Orion II's, a Gillig is going to seem better.....
Ask anyone who has driven GM fishbowls, Flxible New Looks, Grumman 870's, Flxible Metro's, RTS's, and then gone to a Gillig what they think.
It's like sliding off the seat and INTO the toilet bowl!!
Yes, at least I know someone from Pacific Bus Museum who drove those buses you mentioned and they still think Gillig is not as suck as you think.
Stephen
The Pacific Bus Museum?????? and they maintain how many Gilligs???? in fact they maintain what?????
Hehehhe, they love to brag about new acquisitions....
eBay Item Numbers:
2402659100 - Flxible Metro
2402659532 - New Flyer D35LF
2402660454 - TMC MCI 96A2, 96A3, 102A2, 102A3 and 102C3
2402660701 - Orion I
2402660958 - Gillig
Learn all the secrets!
I have been informed from my good friend Transit is my Drug that NYC MTA Artics 5537 and 5541 are in service on the M23. And he also told me that he took pics of them both.
I will be down there tomorrow to see if there's any other new buses lurking around.
If I see anything worth mentioning, I'll post it here.
#5537 M23
Also, note that I saw #5529 in service on the M102 as of 9:15am out of 147th Street.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
I spotted #5541 working the M79 this evening. It's the highest numbered new artic that I've seen so far.
Yeah, 5529 and 5540 on the M102 as well...these things are poppin up like flies...ROFL
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Well why isn't 126 st depot getting there shipment. We be seeing mjq depot but not 126 st. 126 st depot started to get them,then it stop. why is that?
Thursday morning about 5 something. I was on interstate 80 in New Jersey travel to Toledo, OH with my aunt and three cousins to visit my family and relatives. Eastbound interstate 80 I saw a brand new MTA NYC New Flyer articulated. I couldn't catch the coach number because it was dark. My guess is it's probably on its way to Lodi, NJ.
It has been 3 or 4 months that I have responded here at this forum. Last November I have moved to Paterson, NJ from Toledo, Oh where I grew up. I made the choice to stay with my aunt and three cousins to have a better oppurtunity job wise and community college/university which I'm starting this fall. I'm really enjoying myself here in New Jersey. Particularly have the chance to ride the different model buses and bus routes of my liking. I finally got my chance to ride a Flxible Metro "B" suburban. It was great! I particular catch one on the 171 line wich are dominated by Metro "D" suburbans and occassionally a mixture of buses at Market Street Garage. From the P.A.B.T if I wanted to ride on the Metro "B" I occassionaly take line 126 or 99S wich is run by Flixible Metro "B" buses.
Soon, I'm going to take the 159 turnpike express bus to New York. When I wait for one out of Fairview Garage hopeully it's a Flxible Metro "B" because I love that high sound scream. On the 171 line you think I may hear that scream on RT.4, but there is alot of traffic and also some drivers travel on it slow.
I've been to New York dozens of times. My bus route there is the M5 where I take it to the G.W.B there and back from NJT bus 171. I love it! All the variety of buses and different known names, such as Academy.
I'll catch you guys later, until then enjoy your weekend and stay safe.
-Ronnie Cathcart, Jr.
NJT #3569, 3223 and 3791
Good, more new buses. Hopefully more will come. I want the 8400's/8500's to go to Brooklyn.
Be patient my friend. In due time!
#8460 Q58
Today after i finish working @ Hudson Pier Depot driving up at West Side saw Artic #5539 on M23 near Chelsea Piers last stop.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
why is there that box behind the driver that flashes the type of fare paid or given?
Since you're new to this board, I'll explain it briefly. Bus operators call it a "beakie box". It's purpose is to show an undercover person monitoring the bus operator that the correct fares are being collected and recorded properly.
BIG AL
So that's what those are for. I've always wondered about it myself. I have yet to see all the lights go on though. The reduced fare, full, student, and pass have gone on. The other 2, yet to happen.
They are a complete waste of money. The manufacture/purchase/installation/maintainence of these totally useless mechanisms only add to the cost of running the system, which in turn, only adds to the cost of the fare. These "beakie boxes", as well as other MTA waste should be immediately identified, addressed and proven necessary before these crooks steal more money from you people.
I still cannot understand why a dispatcher requires a $20,000 GMC Jimmy while a Road Supt requires a $35,000 Yukon. Neither of these titles requires cargo area larger than that of a few bags of spill blanket that can easily and comfortably fit in the trunk of your basic $16,000 Lumina.
Just more MTA waste passed onto you.
beakie boxes? what a joke. i remember when they were first installed with the gfi fareboxes. i don`t know one driver that got written up because of the beakie boxes .
well theres one supt in si who wouldnt fit in anything smaller than a yukon.
"... These "beakie boxes" ..."
I don't think it's the box as much as it's the maintance on them.
They have been out there about 6 or 7 years now and seem to be holding pritty well. You have to keep after the PM stuff. And when the mfg. tells you a part needs to be replaced & offers you a replacement (and stops selling the old one) you better pay attention.
I will also have to admit that there are areas that neither Cubic nor the TA ever wanted to be bothered addressing. I have seen them since day one.
The "beakie boxes" have been on NYCT buses since 1986, far longer than "6 or 7 years." The Cubic fareboxes have been on the buses for 7-8 years or so.
David
The box is there to record the fares.
PASS-MTA employees and white Metrocards with yellow lettering
BYPS-Bypass
XFER-Transfers
STUDT-Student passes
SPCL-Usually the elderly and disabled
ADULT-$1.50 is paid in coins, tokens & Metrocard
The box isn't there to record fares. The box isn't necessary to record fares. The fares are recorded at the farebox, not the box. The box is a useless waste of taxpayer money with the only practical use being to observe bus operators collecting the fare. With the TA's fare collection policy, it's a collosal waste of money and couldn't ever be used against a BO with respect to fare payment.
I know that. By the way you're describing it, you're making it seem like its a appendix ;-).
After hearing about all the negative comments made about Fresh Pond Depots buses, i had the day off and decided to pass by the garage itself. I wound up taking the Q18 to the Q58. These were the Fresh Pond buses i saw in service:
9602,4678,9588,9579,8002,8006,4667,8135,9593,8167,9140,4679,4728,4890.
As you can see, mostly newer buses running today. Also, anyone looking for the famous ho scale of the NOVABUS in either the NYC bus design or the Yellow model go to 62-12 Fresh Pond Road. Got the white one, and the other models will be in tomorrow.
Q18-#3042-orion V-CNG
Q58-#4729-TMC RTS
B110-#221-Orion I
"F" Shuttle-#9103-NOVABUS
B1-#9092-NOVABUS
I would say new vs. old in FP is about 50/50.
Old: 4678, 4667, 4679, 4728, 4890 (5)
In-Between: 8002, 8006, 8135, 8167 (4)
New: 9602, 9588, 9579, 9593, 9140 (5)
I see where you're going, believe me I wish UP would get newer buses too. But understand that FP fleet gets very little changes. And 50/50 is nothing compared to what you would see in FLA, ENY, and esp. JG.
lets hope that once the Orion VII arrive at JG this year, then some of the buses move to either Ulmer Park and Fresh Pond. It's a wait and see.
I'm rooting for UP & FP to get better buses b/c I think its time they both got better fleets; especially UP. We'll just have to see what the DOB assigns in the future.
Wish I had known you were coming around. I would have popped outside for a quick minute to meet you. What time did you pass through? Today from 6:00pm to midnight, I didn't send out any 4000's! Only 8000's and up went out. And I'm pretty sure my 7:00-8:00 pm meal relief didn't send out any 4000's either. That should account for you seeing mostly newer buses, assuming you arrived later in the day.
BIG AL
He should've said something when he stopped by Fresh Pond, I would had stopped by too. He didn't say what time he got there.
i was there after 12pm or so.
There was a discussion on WMATA garages about a couple of months ago and yesterday I looked at the future garage section in the Regional Bus Study. Found some interesting stuff there.
1)Of course Northern is the oldest bus garage of WMATA's 10 garages, built in 1906. Annex is the second oldest being built in 1922.
2)Bladensburg is the biggest garage with a capacity of 300-315 spaces, but this one kind of surpised me in that Montgomery is the second biggest garage with 240 possible stories, Four Mile is third with 225 spaces and Landover is fourth with 220. Arlington is the smallest with about 56 spaces but could hold about 80 and they have 76 buses there.
3)Four Mile Run was the first WMATA bus garage built (I thought it was Montgomery)
4)Arlington also had the ability to overhaul buses, but might have been or is scheduled to move to Bladensburg.
5)Landover has two bus bays able to handle artics, but they didn't mention about the other artic garages or how many lanes they have for artics. They said even though Northern has the capacity to service artics, they are too small.
6)They said Western has the capacity to handle 210 buses but would have to have them stacked to have them. From the looks of things they would really have to be stacked for that to happen.
They also talked about the local bus garages and they are interesting too.
1)DASH is looking at land to build a 100 bus garage, right now they a 49 bus garage and it is at capacity.
2)THE BUS has a garage capacity of 150 buses, but only has used 97 spaces. Also they measured bus space by standard 40' buses, so they may need more buses to fill those spaces. Both of Ride On's bus garages are at capacity.
3)As I suspected, ART's buses are stored in Springfield as they are run by ATC, the same ones who run Fairfax Connnector, so they are stored at the Fairfax Connector Facility.
4)Fairfax Connector's garages are techinally called Huntington for the southern garage and Herndon for the northern garage.
It did take a while for this report to load on my computer (it is 199 pages and is in pdf format). Part Two is next.
Actually Yellow operates Fairfax Connector now
There are several contractors that run Fairfax Connector, from what I understand. At the seminar I was at yesterday, I was talking to someone that is a planner with Fairfax County and they oversee the Connector. There is a contract for the Southern County, one for the Northern County and one for RIBS. The Northern County contract goes up for bid soon. First Transit had part of it at one time along with another company called TMSI. They operated the 600 series that go to Government Center along with the 402 and 403. Its probably Yellow and First Transit now.
First Transit just won the bid for PRTC, too. WMATA got the heck out of there as they are not the easiest to run. PRTC has had so many different contractors, its ridiculous. Part of the problem is that the drivers work for the private company but the dispatchers work for the County.
Right -- that's why the strike wouldn't have affected all routes, thanks for clarification
and for the info of those who still don't know, First scooped up ATE.
No problem! It is definitely different to have more than one contractor run under the same name, but like you said, it prevented the strike from crippling all of Faifax Connector.
If only WMATA could have kept the Reston routes.
well lucky for everyone the strike didn't really happen :p
Yea, I have said before they killed the 5S. That was their meal ticket right there and they killed it.
One thing I have noticed in going to Reston Town Center is that Fairfax Connector have all of their buses to arrive at approximately the same time and leave around the same time. Only here though.
Yeah, SEPTA does that for the Norristown Transportation Center. It's great for connections.
What perfect timing. They will be getting CNG buses for their Four Mile Run garage in about a year, there are PRTC buses there, and WMATA needs that space for the CNGs, and therefore goes the PRTC buses. Four Mile Run has an agreement that the most buses they can store there is 225. Same thing with Northern, they can also store 175.
That's true, they could definitely make good with that space. They really didn't need to be affiliated with PRTC, especially since it is a totally different entity. It would be one thing if WMATA took it over, which would be good for them to expand, but to actually run someone else's service is really hard.
They also talked about where future bus garages would go and some sights surprise me and some don't. For one any future bus garage built over a WMATA storage yard would add significant cost and would be of last resort. Also it would be hard to find space in Montomery County, DC and inner VA because of development or in most of the DC's sites they are around residential development. Outer VA and Prince George's county offer more sites free of any issues for a new bus garage.
The two garages that were on the drawing board are one in Western Fairfax County and in at Brookland. The one in Fairfax County would be on West Ox Road and would be shared with Fairfax Connector. If built it would be the first of its kind in this area. The one in Brookland would, they say, would replace the Southern garage, I have one question about this one, HOW? Brookland is in Northeast and Southern is in Southeast(of course). The only way that would happen would move the current Bladensburg routes out of there and replace the with the Southern routes, therefore making southern the one with CNG buses. I don't see this happening. There are some possible sites in Southeast, one on the grounds of Saint Elizabeth Hospital. This sight though could be a development boom for Anacostia, with maybe housing the headquarters for the Department of Homeland security. Southern though is desperately in need of replacement even though they did some construction on it last year. That garage is over in its capacity should only hold about 80 buses but has 104 buses.
One possible site sort of interest me, though it would make sense, since the site would be very close to Landover. It is on Fed Ex field land and would be a block from my house. Might be fun to see buses deadheading on Sheriff Road going there, but again doesn't make sense with Landover close by. Also Danny boy might want to use that space for more parking.
Some other sites would include White Oak in eastern Montgomery County and would be a good sight for an Eastern Montgomery county and it could be a 250 bus garage. That site is also on the list for the FDA, so that site might be out of the question. There is also a sight near the Greenbelt Metro Station on Kenilworth Avenue that is also on the FDA sight for a future headquarters. There is also a sight near a contented sight for a shopping center so that one might also be out of the question. The site of the old US Air Arena is also a sight, but may be ruled out due to the future shopping center. For some reason they mentioned Lakeforest Mall and that would displace parking and how many routes would that garage serve. The only routes that run near there are the Q2, 14s and the J5 and on top of that Montgomery is sufficent to serve that area right now and if one is built in eastern Montgomery County, more space would be available at Montgomery. They also mentioned the Burtonsville, Greencastle, Briggs Chaney, and Quince Orchard Park and Ride Lots.
One very odd one would be at the Dullus Corridor BRT facility in Loudoun County, that would be really out of the question.
If anyone wants to view the report here is the address:
www.wmata.com/about/expansion/bus/Bus_Study_Garage_Plan.pdf
If that doesn't work then go to www.wmata.com, click on Inside Metro on the green bar, then click on "Expansion Program", then click on "The Regional Bus Study" and finally "Regional Bus Study Garage Plan". Hope that helps.
"OK" variety of my own transit recordings here, I need more DASH Gilligs, a good DASH Orion I, some more Fairfax Connector Orion Is before it's too late (1985's still around..), definitely need to get me arse across the pond into The Bus and Ride On (that's how you say it! Not RideOn, Ride-On, RodeOn or RidOn (ok no one says those :p))territory but most of Ride On's Gilligs SUCK, what kind of pt do they have? I HATE IT! ARGH! *pulls hair out*
9404 is my first successful Flxible recording, it's terribly about time for that, I'm just now starting to get 4000-series Orions up, I REALLY NEED 4000-4100 Flxibles but they're too darn quiet! Also on the to-get list are 9700 Flxible D's and pre-9300 Flxible B's. I haven't heard an Orion II long enough to know if it's worth trying but if anyone wants it I'll see what I can do.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
I GUESS THE ADDRESS WOULD HELP NOW WOULDN'T IT???
Here you go, info about the buses coming soon. Until I get a page up on these you'll have to email me or send me IMs @ TECsBrain (AIM), tristancu (Yahoo), tristancunn@hotmail.com (MSN, NOT FOR EMAIL) or 71600079 (ICQ). Also if anyone wants to join ASTF last minute before registration procedures are put into effect (entry test, still no dues), please do so at that time.
Thanks BusTalkers, and NO that's not my name, notice the two S'es :)
P.S. Saturday I will ****try**** to re-record 5300-series buses. Sorry I missed out on MANs y'all :(
You might have not have gotten much sound from the MANNs. The 5100s had some of the most quiet engines I have heard on a bus. The NABIs with M11s are second.
I got two NABI's, they seem to 'fill the mic' pretty well...it's those Neos I'm having issues with because I think they 'fill the mic' too well and therefore i have too much noise in my recording.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to power up a mid-90's style Luminator ODK? I have a car battery charger as I've heard that can work, but, I'm not sure as to how I could hook it up. I don't know how to get itconnected/rig it up to work. What kind of wires to buy, how to hook 'em up... Any feedback would be appreciated.
Hey! I love your Handle classicsrule. I LOVE THE CLASSICS!!!! :)
I've got pictures of Port Authority of Allegheny County (Pittsburgh, PA) Nova Classics, Flxible Metro's, Orion I/V and Neoplan Low-Floor pics in my photo galleries...
http://community.webshots.com/user/ross2600
Don 't ya just love it when you ask a question in here, and there come the posts....to brag about handles or pictures, and NOTHING to do with the question you asked?
To provide power (with some protection) for that Luminator sign system, do what a friend of mine did when he bought some used ones from a bus scrapper....use a model railroad train transformer!! It will provide up to 12 volts DC, 16 volts AC, have built in circuit breakers too. And it will weigh a hell of a lot less than lugging a battery around.
You really don't need heavy duty wiring, as the things do NOT draw that much electricity. Radio Shack could provide wire -- probably 14 guage at the heaviest is what you'd need.
I took a trip on the 11C,the 1:45 from the bridge, hoping to see you at Westwood Garage but you weren't there.How come you didn't show up today? And by the way when do you do trips on the 9(from either the GWB or PABT) and the 84 and at what times?
I had to take care of some business, I totally apologize, I did forget that you were coming out today.
My 84 day is Thursday and Friday, the 7:20pm out of Westwood.
My 9 day is Wednesday, the 9:10pm and 11:30om out of The Bridge and on Sundays the 5:15pm out of the PABT.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Do you make a round trip back to the PABT on your 5:15 trip on Sunday?
Yes, I do the 5:15pm out of the PABT to New City, Due arrival at 6:53pm. Then I pull out of New City at 7:40pm and arrive back at the PABT at 9:05pm.
Trevor
0.0 Oh damn! And here I was thinking because of that long a break you weren't gonna be making that trip back,someone else was going to do it.Alright I'll be there on Sunday then.Maybe I'll take a train trip or something before going to the PABT.
Many years ago (don't ask) I bought these roll sign lists at some type of show
MABSTOA Bus roll sign lists for air conditioned GMC 1967 Model TDH 5303 #s 8301 - 8780
and MABSTOA bus roll sign lists GMC model TDH 5303 #s 6401-6900
I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be a big change in routes in Manhattan, though route numbers have changed, especially for the crosstown routes. M96 was M19, etc.
I see some strange destinations in the Bronx. They're strange because I don't know the Bronx well.
I'm going to list the depot, front and side sign curtains and hopefully somebody can fill in the blank. Again, these are all BRONX destinations.
Depot Front Side
Kingsbridge 4 to IND Subway 4 Jerome Ave Bainbridge Ave
Kingsbridge 10 to IND Subway 10 Riverdale Avenue
Kingsbridge 35 to McKinley Square 35 167 Street Crosstown
Kingsbridge 36 to Unionport 36 180 Street Crosstown
Kingsbridge 36 to Story Ave 36 180 Street Crosstown
West Farms 1 Shorehaven 1 Shorehaven
West Farms 2 Shorehaven 2 Shorehaven
West Farms 3 Shorehaven 3 Shorehaven
Coliseum 6 to Fort Schuyler 6 Throggs Neck
Coliseum 6B to McDowell Place 6 Throggs Neck Stadium
Coliseum 12A to IND Subway 12A Fordham Rd City Island
Coliseum 17 to Westervelt Ave 17 Allerton Avenue
Colisuem 49 to Subway HIGHBRIDGE
For the routes marked "IND Subway," are they referring to today's "D" train?
Thank you for your assistance.
Michael
Wash, DC
It has to be,the rest of the lines in "da bronx" are IRT(everything except the 3,7 and the GC/TS shuttle.
It has to be,the rest of the lines in "da bronx" are IRT(everything except the 3,7 and the GC/TS shuttle).
There were some major route changes in the Bronx about 20 years (??) ago...perhaps someone can be specific with dates, I surely can't (sorry!)
The old Bx4 started on Valentine Avenue, went east on Fordham a couple blocks, then north on Bainbridge Avenue to 205th Street, then it went up past the Woodlawn-Jerome subway station on the #4 train. It then went east on 233rd Street, and then turned north to the City Line on (??) (west of Webster...)
Southbound was basically the same as northbound, but when it got to, I think, Bedford Park, it made a right, then left onto another street, came out to Kingsbridge Road at Poe Park, and then down that one block of Valentine Avenue. It's been ages since I lived in Fordham and road the Bx4, but did so quite often as I had relatives up on 233rd & Katonah (I lived at Fordham & Valentine area).
The Bx4, in those days, did travel within one block of the "D" train (as well as the old "CC" -- it also stopped right under the end of the #4 train at Woodlawn.
The other routes I cannot help with.
[Southbound was basically the same as northbound, but when it got to, I think, Bedford Park, it made a right, then left onto another street, came out to Kingsbridge Road at Poe Park, and then down that one block of Valentine Avenue.]
That "other street" is several (more) blocks of Valentine Avenue, which the Bx34 (formerly Bx4) still uses. In 1990, Transit tried rerouting the Bx34 away from the Bainbridge/Valentine one-way pair (due to double-parking on both streets) and onto Webster Avenue; that lasted less than a week.
In each case, the front reading indicates the destination of the bus and the side lists the route's "name" (usually the primary street of operation). Here goes....
Kingsbridge
..4 is the former Bx4, current Bx34 (Bainbridge and Katonah Avenues); "Subway 4 Jerome Ave" is Woodlawn station on the #4.
..10 is the former Bx10, current Bx7 (Riverdale Avenue / Broadway); "IND Subway" is 207th Street on the A.
..35 is the Bx35 (167th Street Crosstown); not sure where McKinley Square is.
..36 is the Bx36 (E. 180th Street); "Unionport" is a former terminal at Bruckner Blvd & Zerega Avenue; "Story Ave" is the shopping center at Story Avenue & Pugsley Avenue.
- - - - -
West Farms
I haven't a clue where those routes went. Shorehaven is a neighborhood (and, more recently, a townhouse development) on the Long Island Sound at the foot of Soundview Avenue. It's currently served by routes Bx27 (Soundview Avenue) and Bx39 (White Plains Road).
- - - - -
Coliseum
..6 is the an old feeder to the Tremont Avenue streetcar line; it's currently the eastern end of the Bx40 (Tremont Avenue crosstown), which still ends at Fort Schuyler under the Throgs Neck Bridge.
..6B was a branch of the 6, currently the eastern end of the Bx42. The Throgs Neck Stadium would have been in Ferry Point Park at the foot of Harding Avenue; that site was once considered for a new Yankee Stadium!)
..12A was a variant of the Bx12 (Fordham Road / Pelham Parkway) which operated all the way out to City Island (since broken off as the Bx29); "IND Subway" is 207th Street on the A.
..17 was the former Bx17, current Bx26 (Allerton Avenue); not sure where Westervelt Avenue is.
..49 was the former Anderson/Woodycrest branch of the old Bx37, current Bx13; instead of staying on Ogden Avenue, buses turned east on 168th Street and then used Anderson Avenue in one direction and Woodycrest Avenue in the other direction (I don't recall which was which); "Subway" is 161st Street station on the #4, B, and D; "HIGHBRIDGE" is the neighborhood west of Jerome Avenue between 161st and about 170th Streets.
For those Bus Talk readers who do not look at Sub Talk here is a copy of a message i posted there
I attended the Brooklyn MTA Public Hearing last night about the fare hikes and closure of Subway token booths
MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow did not attend the hearing and it was reported that he walked out in the middle of the hearing Wednesday night in Manhattan
Thank You
These public hearings are a formality that the MTA must endure as a result and part of legislature already on the books, however rarely enforced without the help of such organizations as the Straphangers Campaign (among others) promoting such.
While the MTA is legally required to hold these meetings, they are not bound by the sentiment of the public.
The biggest problem with the MTA is it's status. It answers to only the Governer, with entitlement unto itself. For public transportation to truly be a public service, it should answer to the public on some level. Here in NYC, the NYCT body of the MTA *should* answer to the mayor, and not the governer. It should represent and serve the city fairly and in direct proportion to the number of people utilizing _and depending_ upon the system. However as a state agency with limitless empowerment not unlike that of the Port Authority, it does not.
The MTA, which in itself is an oxymoron, because there is nothing "metropolitan" about bus service in Buffalo NY as it relates to subway service in Queens NY, should be completely disbanded and restructured to properly serve the local public. NYCT should follow the same structure path as the NYCDOT.
Come to think of it, the USDOT, NYSDOT and NYCDOT is a better parallel of organization in which to structure, as opposed to the MTA's most recent "historic restructuring" which only further pads the pockets in Albany and does nothing for the residents of NYC who depend on safe, reliable and cost-effecitve transportation who shouldn't be paying a disproportionate fare to offset gross mismanagement and waste by an agency who answers to only themselves.
Thank you.
http://beelinebus.westchestergov.com/english_fare_hearing.htm
YES!!!!!!! They're gonna eliminate the surcharges on the 60,61,62!! That's the best thing I've seen all day!!Finally!I never saw the point of paying an extra 85 cents on those routes anyway.So listen up everyone.I've been planning a trip to Norwalk,CT for awhile now and I'm gonna do it on March 3rd,if its sunny that day otherwise sometime later in the week.If anyone wishes to come with me that day make sure your at the Bee-Line bus stop in Fordham before 10AM cause I'm gonna be taking the 10AM 61 out of Fordham to Port Chester to get to the CTTransit bus route 11 to get to Stamford then transfer to the 41 to Norwalk.Hope to see someone there.I'll remind everyone later on this month about this.
Does anyone know why the 27 and 32 was routed off 15th st, and put on Broad St between City Hall and Washington Ave? I noticed that all of the bus stop signs were removed off 15 th St.
I never knew they went down 15th st-just up it...it has certainly been that way for a while now. I guess it is to better serve places like the kimmel center and the academy of music. i don't know for sure, though, but I'm betting that is the reason.
SEPTA's offical reason for the re-route was the heavy congestion along 15 Street in Center City. If that's the real reason, then it's actually a smart move, as it should improve the reliability of both the 27 and 32.
It seems there is a very negative attitude towards Gilligs as far as trying to drive one. Kinda makes me wonder about Shuttle-UM. After all, they may place me in front of a Gillig if I take a job with them. I've talked with a few Shuttle-UM drivers and they do not seem to hate the Phantom.
You have to remember that the avg. Shuttle UM driver has about 3-3.5 hours per shift driving in circles basically. The lenght of the runs, minus Silver Spring and New Carrollton are very short, the buses don't travel more than 40 mph and they don't make stops the way a city bus does. Its really hard to compare Shuttle UM to any transit system, trust me after driving for them for a year and a half. Shuttle UM is a cake job compared to any transit system.
Go do it, if just for the training and experience.
The drivers won't say anything bad about a Gillig there at Shuttle-UM, probably because they don't have much experience in anything else.
Well, decided to take the bus to work today since it didn't look like the roads were really good, until we got on Arlington Blvd. and realized that I should have driven. Oh well, saw a few interesting things along the way. Coming home, saw Metro B 9314 on the 28A and later saw 9313 deadheading from Ballston after completing the 10B. I don't know how many 9300's Royal has now, but those are the first two I've seen there. This AM, saw 8821 on the 2B. On both 1C's I was on, I had Orion V 2150 and 4387, nothing exciting there!
I didn't see any artics, which makes me wonder if they run artics when it snows. Anywho, I saw something that WMATA is doing for its 30th anniversary, they are starting to put stickers in the windows of there buses. I saw one on 2413 as I was driving to work, it was black and red and looked like it had 30 for thirty years and 03 for the year they are celebrating. Couldn't get complete details on what it looked like. One was attached to the left window behind the driver's window. That was all I saw today too.
Also went by Landover tonight and the last Neoplan is out.
I'm wondering what else WMATA is doing this month for the 30th anniversary? The website says events will be planned, but it doesn't give specifics.
No artics when it snows.
That's what I thought have never saw one when it snows. They should also take the Orion IIs off the road during snowstorms too. They can't seem to take the snow.
I'm certain the amount of transit photography will take a big dive because of this. What do you all think?
Sorry to say that it may f***. Alwhile it was good well it last. you can still go to reaodeo if there still any and take photos
Bus photography should be OK. Just use common sense - for example, I wouldn't take pictures near any government buildings, large terminals, sports arenas, shopping malls, etc.
I, for one, don't intend to let those criminals change my whole life.
Jim D.
Same here. Just be careful of what you take pics of. And do not be surprised if you are stopped and asked what you're taking a pic of and why.
I for one am going to give it a rest for a little while taking pics.
I have so many and it is money out of my pocket that I could be using for other purposes. I have a roll I just completed today and that will be my last at least for a little while until things calm down...
hopefully.
#1979 X1
I use a digital camera but still, I probably am going to scale back a bit. All these photos are starting to take a big chunk of hard drive space!
Just gonna lay low for a while. If there's something that's urgent to get, then I'll get it. (Mini and full wrapped buses, unusual buses on unusual routes, new buses on the road, old buses that are about to be on their way out etc etc).
Other than that-I'm LIMITING and/or SUSPENDING my picture taking for a little while until things calm down...hopefully.
Besides I have my latest roll of film in the shop now getting processed. They'll be on TransiTalk shortly.
#1979 X1
www.transitalk.org
I'm sticking to scenic photos more or less, plenty of them abound out here in the sticks.
I don't get this...why is it so bad to take pictures of buses and trains?
It's a matter of perception. If you take photos at a busy station or around the types of 'soft' targets mentioned in the warning, you're probably going to catch the attention of security officials, not to mention the general public who probably consider the photography of transit vehicles to be 'unusual' behavior. As I mentioned in a previous post, common sense is the key. Follow the rules - for example, most shopping malls usually forbid photography on their property without permission. Answer politely if you are questioned. If you are asked to move along, this is probably not the weekend to get into a big argument over your First Amendment rights. It's probably also a good time to keep away from the garages. However, I don't think bus fans will get too much grief for taking pictures on the street.
Keep in mind that transportation officials and employees are on the lookout after yesterday's warning. If you act in a way that draws suspicion, you'll only succeed in leaving them less time to watch out for the real criminals.
Jim D.
Now are officials going to act suspicous of every tourists taking pictures of the whitehouse, capitol, pentagon, memorials, etc.?
My guess is that they already have been watching those tourists a lot more closely ever since 9/11.
I'll bet we're all being watched more closely when we go to places that may be considered targets. Remember those cameras they used when the World Cup soccer tournament was in the U.S. a few years back - the ones that could identify troublemakers right down to the specific seat they were sitting in? I'm sure those cameras are being installed in all sorts of public places now.
JD
Actually, I think all photography at the Pentagon is forbidden, because of 9/11, before then you could take photographs at the Pentagon.
Hell yeah it is, take it from me
It depends on where you take them. Near federal buildings, bus garages may garner some police attention, but on public streets away from these areas, shouldn't be a problem.
I think it isnt right to suspect busfanners taking pictures of transit vehicles ANYWHERE. They suspect us but how about tourists and visitors taking pictures of National Landmarks?
Alot of them don't know any better and with this heightened security
some security officials get OVER protective and try to question bus and rail fans when taking pics. They shouldn't be overactive, commonsense should take over here, but as we all know that is not the case.
"National Landmarks" are a much more common subject
Without sounding as if I am trying to trivialise your heightened current security alert, did your President not ask your country to get back to normal and do your normal stuff after 9/11.
At this moment in time how many toutists in Manhattan will be out and about taking pictures of anything and everything?
If you feel uncomfortable taking a pic of a bus or a train then dont do it.
But if you are doing nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear.
You cant let the bad guys win.
Keep safe.
I D K I was in DC Thursday and got a decent amount of photography, even with the operators some stopped buses and posed!!!!! :)
We got questioned one time, but after flashing the ID. We were clear to continue.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I was downtown on 1/29 and had no trouble. I have had hardly any trouble since 9/11 and no one official has gotten me to stop anything. I've had a few people who I consider to be complete idiots to the fullest extent come up to me and try to convince me I was engaging in illegal activity but they were civilians. One tried to convince me he used to work for the FBI and was going to the Pentagon but never showed ID.
Just keep photographing and comply with our officials. If we play by the rules, we shouldn't have any problems.
I have had no problems since 9/11, only one time a transit official came close to questioning me. He just looked at me and when about his business. I have taken tons o' pics since 9/11 and will still do the same. I will though stick to pubic streets mostly but will venture onto transit once in a while to take a pic.
Seeing as its past midnight as I post this,I'll be riding with you today on your 9 trip from the PABT at 5:15.I'll see you then Trev.
Ok folks, Chairman of the ASTF here, shining time for me to show off :p
On November 29, in a code YELLOW, I was at the Pentagon Transit Center and took a picture of a Fairfax Connector bus that was pulling out. That day I went all over Washington taking pictures, so when I got to the Pentagon my mind was still set in TAKE PICTURES YOU FOOL! mode instead of the PUT YOUR CAMERA AWAY NOW IDIOT mode that would have behooved me very much at that time. Well a DPS (Defense Protective Service, a.k.a. military base police) officer was right behind that bus and he came over and patted me down, asked a ton of questions, took my picture, called the TP's (Transit Police), who asked more questions, then took my notebook and told me to 'be careful' and thanked me for cooperating.
TWO WEEKS LATER, an agent from the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force and a Metro Transit Police detective came to my school and interviewed me in front of the School Resource Officer (city cop assigned to school to better relationship between PD and students) and my GLA (grade level administrator)...this lasted for about two hours. They then determined that I was not a 'threat' but were interested in who I shared information with (who I commonly showed pictures to)...sooo the SRO gave me a ride home with FBI/Metro trailing in a 'non-government-issue' SUV. They then came and I surrendered my computer to them to show that I had nothing to hide; if I didn't do so they would probably go get a search warrant so I decided to just give it up and save us all some time. Well they took my computer for a week, looked into my IM logs, gave it back, then on Wednesday (just past Wednesday, almost four months later now), the FBI man returned to ask some questions about some pictures he found. I cleared that up so now I think I'm ok...but let that be a lesson to all of you who think 'they don't really care'.
And to those of you who are 'giving up', remember that we were put in this heightened state of alert because of the Muslim holiday Haij, which ends in mid-February. After that, we will be back in Yellow unless 'something happens'. So just keep your guard up until then and we should be "back to normal" fairly soon.
Well, we as busfans who are just taking pictures of what we enjoy should be on the lookout for those who are out there to destroy our way of life. I am not going to stop taking buspics and never plan to. I will just be on the lookout for those who look suspicious, as we all should, and believe me, I see alot of strange people out there and they aren't terrorists. Plus I can't give up, bought tons o' film during the Ames's going out of business sale.
Sounds like we are living in China. At least in China the girls are mystical! :-0
Rode this bus this morning on the Q104 and noticed a change in the color of the seats from Gray...to BLUE!
YES BLUE! I was flabbergasted! Very similar to the 4900-5249 series but a little lighter and more black designs. Is this a sign of things to come? Maybe this is the reason why the 500 Suburban Onions are running locally on the weekends?
Thurston can you fill us in on any info? We'd greatly appreciate it.
#379 Q104
According to reports an Atlantic City Tour Bus operated by Dahlia Tours of Flushing flipped on the GSP yesterday enroute from Chinatown.
Police think driver was in a hurry but weather conditions were not part of the problem. He was weaving in and out of traffic and lost control around exit 65.
From one picture on the news last night it was a Prevost Mirage. Fleet number 2112. Seemed to be an all white bus. The front was all white except for the fleet number. Several injuries, none to the driver.
To me, it looked like an H3-41 or H3-45 bus more than a LeMirage XL...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Yesterday at around 8:30pm i saw NovaRTS #4978 on the B83 on Penn Av & Vandlia But it did not have LED Lamps Like hte Rest if the 1999 Nova Wonder Why
#9098 B6 - LTD
#9092 B6 - Local
I've seen that bus also with the standard lamps. More than likely the bus was damaged in the rear by an accident and replacement LED lamps were not available, so standard lights had to be used. There are a few other 1999 RTS's floating around also with the standard lamps or a combination of both.
BIG AL
This is my first post here, so I'll just take a minute to introduce myself. My name is Tyler, and I'm currently a bus driver for Disney Transport at the Walt Disney World Resort here in Orlando, FL. We operate a fleet of 194 GMC/TMC RTS busses (1979-1994), as well as 71 Nova LFS busses (2000-2002).
At any rate... been reading the discussion going on about the Gillig Phantom, and whatnot... I can't really add to much to it since I've never driven one, just ridden on a few. LYNX (Orlando's TA) operates a lil under 200 of them ('94-'99?). They seem to be happy with the Phantoms, since they kept on buying more each year. The only non-Phantom purchase was 10 New Flyer D35LF's for thier Lymmo downtown circular service.
But anyways... here at Disney, we've been using RTS busses since 1980... We have 43 GMC RTS II busses that we bought new, 104 TMC RTS busses bought new, and 10 TMC/Nova RTS busses that were bought at about the same time that NovaBUS bought the RTS. In addition to that, we have one GMC RTS II that was originally a Test bus, and 35 GMC RTS II busses ('79-'81) that we bought used and had rebuilt in 1998 by Midwest Bus. Those busses came from:
Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority (Detroit, MI)
Detroit Dept of Transportation/SEMTA (Detroit MI)
Metro Dade County Transit Authority (Miami, FL)
Miami Valley Regional Transit Authority (Dayton, OH)
In addition, we also have 30 GMC RTS II busses that we bought used, and did not have rebuilt... instead, we used them for employee shuttles. These busses have now been all retired, except 2, and are being used for parts. These came from:
Long Beach Public Transportation Company (Long Beach CA)
Rock Island County Mass Transit District (Rock Island IL)
Delaware Authority for Regional Transit (Wilmington DE)
City of St Petersburg Municipal Transit System (St Petersburg FL)
Washoe Regional Transportation Commission (Reno NV) (These are the ones still in use)
Most of our RTS busses currently have Detroit Diesel 6v92 engines with Allison v730, v731, or v741 transmissions. (The exception being the TMC/Nova RTS's... they have DDEC Series 50 engines) At the moment, we're dabbling with replacing the 6v92 engines with S50 engines. One bus has already been converted.
In 2000, we placed a 3 part order with NovaBUS for 71 LFS busses. First batch was a 2000 model, second was a 2001 model, and this new one is a 2002 model. They just arrived last week, and are awaiting final preperations before they're placed into service. Now, I can't compare this bus with a Gillig... but I'd have to say this thing falls below Gillig in quality. It's a true piece of crap. It's plagued with many design flaws, some quite serious. In addition, the build quality is quite low. They come direct from the factory with issues, and problems. I remember one came down with an exhaust stack that stood out of the bus an extra foot... You'd think someone would have noticed it, and corrected it before it got shipped down here. Not a major issue, but an example of lack of Quality Control.
Disney has a brand loyalty to Detroit Diesel and Allison, so as such the busses came equipped with Detroit Series 40 engines, and an Allision B500 transmission. Been having a lot of problems with the S40 engine, specifically the turbo charger. The LFS doesn't have proper ventilation for the engine/turbo, and as such, can't handle the Florida heat. I know one bus in particular has been through at least three turbochargers.
These busses are always giving us problems, breaking down, and falling apart. I can't imagine if these busses can't hold up to our abuse, how they'd even come close to standing up to a real transit authority.
Our RTS busses on the other hand, are usually pretty reliable, and certainly rock-solid. Yes, they do have thier problems every so often, but it's to be expected of a 20 year old bus with 2 million miles. (We do approx 100,000mi/yr)
When called on the problems, NovaBUS told us, "You can't drive the LFS like the RTS!" *shrug* Too bad the LFS doesn't come with a AAA membership. :)
Well, that's all my ramblings for now. :)
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
*Plans trip to Disneyworld*
Anyway, are there any plans to retire any of the 194 RTS in the near future? And if these LFS buses do fail as I hope they do, will there be plans to replace them with more used RTS. And I must say, you are a very lucky individual.
From what I am to understand, the first 24 forty footers of our 27xx series might get retired... (27xx = GMC) They're about 18-22 years old, and some have over 2 million miles on them. Most of them run decently enough, although a few are real heaps. But the main problem is that they're just so old, and it really shows. Now, if they would send 'em off to Midwest Bus to be rebuilt, that would be nice. (The 35 footers will stay... primarily for Fort Wilderness internals)
As for replacing the ill-fated LFS with used RTS busses... I doubt it. I think they're going for that new fangled low floor thing. I would love it if Disney would check out some of VanHool's transit busses. AC Transit's busses look real sharp.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Welcome to the forum! My fiancee and I were just down in Disney World last month and we stayed at the All Star resorts, so we used the buses quite extensively. I was extremely impressed with the system down there and almost paid more attention to the buses than anything else!
We rode the Nova's a few times, but more often had an RTS. The ones retrofitted with the orange LED signs are very easy to see, although I was able to make out "Boardwalk" on the older green signs from quite a distance.
It was interesting to notice the different color schemes on the insides of the buses. It appears that the older buses had green walls and purple seats, and the newer buses had the orangish seats and a gray composite flooring. The Novas were aesthetically nice to look at and very "Disneyesque", but its the driving that needs to work, so its too bad that they came with such flaws as they are really cool looking.
The bus drivers were very informative as well and really handled the crowds well. One night coming back from Downtown Disney, a bunch of party seeking drunk college kids got on at All Star Sports and packed the bus as they were most likely headed to Pleasure Island and we felt so bad for the driver having to put up with those rowdy brats.
I can't wait to visit next year as we're taking part of our honeymoon there.
>It was interesting to notice the different color schemes on the
>insides of the buses. It appears that the older buses had green
>walls and purple seats, and the newer buses had the orangish seats
>and a gray composite flooring.
Actually, it's the opposite. Up until the early early 90's, our color scheme was all orange/brown. So all the seats, floors (and even some consoles, on the real early ones) were all brown. Starting in '91 or so, we converted over to the Green/Purple that you saw. All of the rebuilt GMC busses were done in '98, so they received the new color scheme. In addition, many of our busses have been refurbished with the new color scheme. (Although, most often, the only refurbishment has been the new gray composite floor... which is why you'll see mismatched interiors)
When you consider the amount of people we move, the abuse we put forth on the busses, and thier age, our busses are in really good shape.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Thanks for the info. I also noticed some of the RTS's had round tail lights, while the bulk had the rectangular ones. The buses there are definitely kept up in really good shape. I rode one 35 footer in the Ft. Wilderness area which was cool. We had taken a boat from the Magic Kingdom to there just to see something different, then took a bus from the depot at Ft. Wildnerness to Downtown Disney.
> I also noticed some of the RTS's had round tail lights, while the
> bulk had the rectangular ones.
We are currently in the process of replacing our rear engine hatches with new lightweight hatches that feature round LED tail lights. We're hoping the new tail lights will be a bit more visible to those tourists that like to rear-end us. LOL
But yeah, our busses might be old, but we do a lot to keep them in good shape. We're constantly refurbishing them.
Another thing I'll add... every night each of our busses goes through our FIW facility. (Fuel/Inspect/Wash) This is the facility you can see by the Car Care Center. (Our Vehicle Maintenance facility is down the back road a bit...) Every night each of the busses gets fully cleaned both inside and out, mechanically inspected, and taken care of. Each week, the busses get waxed and detailed.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Did you say,” waxed & detailed"? That's awesome. Most buses are lucky to get just washed & repainted once in a while.
Thanks for posting here on "Bustalk". I was at Disney a long time ago, and remember the nice, clean, RTS's.
Chuck Greene
>Did you say,” waxed & detailed"?
That includes the wheels too... :) They get all nice and shiny.
Welcome to the NYC talks pages. I heard you said something about a ddc 40 and a allision b-500r wow that must be one unique tranny config for a bus. for most buses like that used the b-400r. I nothice most busess with bad ventilations back down in septa they open the engine door while driving ,
the open engine hatches were on purpose? I just thought the doors on those NABIs just couldn't close.
Sometimes in the summer, PAT operators will run with the engine hatches open on the Orion V's... When it won't pull a hill without stalling and keeps loosing power despite your best neutral w/fast idle attempts, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to keep the show alive.
nope their engines overheat alot i saw on new flyer engine door open.
I suppose that's why Neoplans have those vents on the engine hatches (Go Neo!)
>I suppose that's why Neoplans have those vents on the engine hatches
What a concept... Proper Ventilation for the engine... Do ya think we could pass this on to NovaBUS? :)
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Yep more vents the better off it is. I saw one new flyer so far with one open.
Welcome aboard. We recently had a discussion about Disney Transport in another thread earlier this month. Here is the first post in that thread. Maybe you want to answer any unanswered questions if we haven't done so already.
I have a section with Disney photos on my website if you are interested. That is at www.orenstransitpage.com.
Once again, welcome aboard!
>Welcome aboard. We recently had a discussion about Disney Transport
>in another thread earlier this month. Here is the first post in that
>thread. Maybe you want to answer any unanswered questions if we
>haven't done so already.
Unanswered questions... (or misinformation)
* All of our 6v71 and 8v71 engines have been replaced by the 6v92 engines. However, in an effort to reduce emissions, we're contemplating replacing some of those with Detroit Series 50 engines. Currently, 4801 is the test bus for that process. (4805-4814 already came with the S50 when bought new in 1994. These busses also have a top exhaust)
* Most of our busses are 40x96... The rebuilds (2745-2780) are 102" wide. Also, we have twelve 35 footers (2708-2720)
* The picture posted is of 2665 (or perhaps its twin, 2664). These two busses were bought used from Reno, NV, and are used as manager shuttle busses, as well as break rooms. They are 1983 35 footers.
* The Flxible and RTS that were seen are from outside shuttle companies. The Flx is run by STS I believe, and the RTS is run by Skytran, who also run a few Phantoms that were formerly Alamo shuttles. (They're also death traps)
* Lynx has two routes that service WDW on a regular basis, the 50 and 56. The 300-306 are Commuter Shuttles. They come once in the morning, and once in the afternoon. They are called "Downtown/Disney Direct" and service multiple areas of property, and then travel to the Downtown Orlando area. They are primarily designed for WDW employees.
* The Hotel Plaza shuttles are not run by Mears. They're run by Fleetwood Limousine (dba Bethany Limousine) Mears does run shuttles to other local area hotels. They typically use MCI A, C, and D series busses, and recently have started getting VanHool C2045's for thier shuttles. They also operate the 45 Disney Cruise Line busses, which are 1998 VanHool T2145's. They were originally supposed to be MCI D series, however, MCI was unable to make our deadline, so VanHool offered a bid, and they accepted.
* Disney operates using two forms of a Flexble dispatching system. The first, is called MOD... Magic On Demand. It's a demand based system that allows for maximum productivity. Busses are staged at the resorts themselves, and then dispatched to the various theme parks. Once they arrive at the theme park, they are then dispatched to pick up at a close by resort, to go back to thier original zone's theme park. An example... Busses stage out of the All-Star parking lot. (Zone 6) 4805 gets dispatched to the Magic Kingdom. (zone 2) Once at the MK, they are then dispatched to pick up at the Contemporary (zone 2) for Animal Kingdom (zone 6).
After the morning rush, we convert to Flex Dispatch. Instead of busses being on fixed circle routes, every time we return to our zone, we get a new dispatch. If we run early, we get the next dispatch, and we're back on time. If we run late, we get the next dispatch, and once again, we're back on time. It's a very effective system, and has increased our efficiency quite a bit.
As for Monorails... I actually used to be a Monorail Pilot, so I can answer those questions for you as well...
When WDW opened in 1971, we started off with five 5-car Mark IV trains. These trains were designed by WED Enterprises (now called Disney Imagineering), and built by Martin Marienetta (sp?). It was soon realized that we'd need more trains, and we got a few more. The Monorail was expanded in 1981 for the opening of EPCOT. 4 more trains were built, bringing the total to 12 trains. In addition, 11 of the trains were extended to 6 cars.
In 1989, Disney received the first Mark VI train, built to Disney specs by Bombardier. 11 other trains came, and were fully online by 1991. These new 6 car trains feature more standing room, bi-parting transit style doors, and a computerized multiplexing monitoring system. Train colors are: Red, Blue, Green, Purple, Pink, Black, Yellow, Orange, Gold, Silver, Coral, and Lime. (Coral is a light pink, with a white accent, Lime is a highlighter yellow color, with a white accent. Up until last year, the accent was navy blue)
Each train is powered by eight 113hp electric traction motors manufactured by GE. Actually, the original Mark VI trains had 100hp, however, they were refurbished, and increased to 113hp in 1998 I beleive. These propulsion units get thier power from 600 volts DC power, and can draw up to 1700 amps. Braking is acheived by two means. The primary braking is done by Dynamic braking. The energy from the momentum of the train is used to slow the train down... To stop the train fully, they are also eqipped with air brakes.
Each train has 124 tires - 12 large ride tires, and 112 side guide tires, located in two rows on each side of the train. The ride tires are experimental tires manufactured by Goodyear and Michelin, and have a lifespan of about 100,000 miles. I'm not sure of exact size, but they are quite a bit larger than a standard bus tire.
Each Mark VI monorail has a maximum crush capacity of 364, however, normal maximum capacity is 316. It should be noted that with the typical Disney crowd with strollers and whatnot, average capacity is 250.
Trains are limited to 40 mph, but are capable of 55+ mph. (I personally have gotten Red up to 49) Trains have a built in speed monitoring system, and if the driver exceeds the speedlimit by more than 2mph for more than 2 sec without placing the train into braking, the train will initiate a full service stop. (Imagine if your bus did that!) The trains also have a built in anti-collision system that will initiate a full emergency stop (80psi applied to the air brakes)
Within the next year, our trains will be recieving new monitoring systems. This new system will include a new color computer touch screen for the driver.
WHEW... that was a lot. Hope I didn't miss anything! :)
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Our family of 4 stayed at Disneys Caribbean Beach Resort for a couple of weeks a few summers ago. I can't rave enough of the condition of their RTS buses. High mileage, high service hours, 12 month demand for air conditioning, full loads many times. I do not recall riding any "dogs" at all. Disneys RTS' put New Yorks RTS' to shame. I was particularly impressed with the 1983 models. The ones we had in New York were slow mules to put it nicely. I never knew a 1983 RTS could go above 30 MPH with functioning a/c till I rode the ones owned by Disney Transport!
Gee, what a surprise? Ugly as sin, and pieces of crap to boot. No wonder Nova decided to abandon the U.S. market and stick to selling the LFS to a captive Quebec market who are forced to buy them.
Good luck to Chicago and those other operators who decided to with the LFS in a big way ... they're going to need it.
Jim D.
Is Disney completely sold on the full-low-floor bus concept? Or will they possibly consider a low-floor bus with the high-floor rear 'deck' like the New Flyer bus and others? I believe that the market for the fully low-floor buses will be more limited in the future as regular transit operators opt for the deck buses.
New Flyer D40LF's would probably do very well at Disney.
Jim D.
>Is Disney completely sold on the full-low-floor bus concept? Or will
>they possibly consider a low-floor bus with the high-floor
>rear 'deck' like the New Flyer bus and others? I believe that the
>market for the fully low-floor buses will be more limited in the
>future as regular transit operators opt for the deck buses.
>New Flyer D40LF's would probably do very well at Disney.
Not quite sure what thier thoughts on the rear deck is... My only concern is that we often have standing loads, and I don't think Disney would like people standing on the stairs. But *shrug* not quite sure. But definetly they want Low Floors... with our demographics, the low floors really work out nicely.
New Flyer sent down an D40i Invero last summer, for us to Demo. I got to take a look at it, but never got a chance to test drive it. We had it for about a month... Maintenance got it for the first week or so, to check out and inspect. Then when it was released to the drivers to check out... Not quite sure what happened, but I was told that it died over by drydock, and our maintenance people weren't allowed to work on it to fix it. *shrug* As for impressions... Looked like a decent bus... The interior looked a bit cramped compared to our LFS's... Our LFS's have perimiter seating on the lower level, and a rear door ramp. The Invero had forward seats, and the two ADA positions directly behind each wheelwell.
Although I'm sure the ramp being in the front door works well for a normal TA and whatnot... here at Disney, it'd be a nightmare. We have a lot of guests who use those rented scooters, and they really aren't the best of drivers. I can't even imagine how they'd ever negotiate around those wheelwells.
Another thing I found interesting about the Invero was the door switches. Apparently, instead of the tried and trusted door handle... the Invero uses a switch, and two buttons. Never saw it in action, but sounded a but hokey to me. Why fix something that isn't broke?
One thing I did like about it though was the front left wheelwell, behind the drivers seat. On top of it was a lockable storage cabinet. I personally think it's a great use for that otherwise wasted space. Our LFS wheelweels are void of anything right now, however, we're getting some triangle type blocks to put on them to keep the parents from placing thier kids on them.
I'm actually curious on three other busses that might work out well for Disney... Don't really know much about them, though, so can't really say. But they look as if they might be worth checking out in more detail.
The first bus is the new 45' CompoBus from NABI... has some nice curb appeal, and the extra space would come in handy on some of our medium-heavy routes. I'd be interested to find out how the drivers like them, and if they handle well...
I'm also interested in the A330 and AG330 from VanHool. AC Transit has a few of these, and I'd love to find out how they're working out. I beleive they're the first transit busses that VanHool has imported to the US. In the Orlando area, we have a lot of VanHool T2145 and C2045 charter coaches (Including the DCL busses). Drivers seem to like the VanHool's, and from what I've seen, they have decent quality to them.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
I was at Disney about 4 years ago, while I was in the sixth grade and a guest on my mother's business trip. The Drivers there are GREAT, and really friendly. I'm not sure what route this is, but I did take a Disney transport bus from the Dolphin Hotel to Epcot. The bus was really crowded, and I remember having to stand partially in the front stairwell. The RTS looks like a staple in the Disney Transport fleet, and the Paint scheme REALLY looks EXCELLENT on the RTS. One question though, Has DT considered getting a low floor articulated bus, such as the New Flyer D60LF?
New Flyer should have sent down a customized demo unit for Disney, because it looks like DT could be an important customer for the Invero, considering that it is a new model.
>I'm not sure what route this is, but I did take a Disney transport
>bus from the Dolphin Hotel to Epcot. The bus was really crowded, and
>I remember having to stand partially in the front stairwell.
Not that I'm questioning it... but we don't provide bus service from the Dolphin to Epcot... Dolphin has a boat that goes to Epcot. Perhaps the boats were down that day. *shrug* At any rate, yeah, our busses do get packed, however, I'm shocked that a driver let you stand in front of the notorious white line. That's just unsafe...
>The RTS looks like a staple in the Disney Transport fleet, and the
>Paint scheme REALLY looks EXCELLENT on the RTS. One question though,
>Has DT considered getting a low floor articulated bus, such as the
>New Flyer D60LF?
The RTS is definetly a staple in our fleet... it's a rugged, durable work horse. I would love to see artics in our fleet... However, our saw-tooth load zones were built to accomodate 40ft busses, and a 60ft bus would cause problems with loading/unloading. If an artic pulls in, the bus behind it would be stuck. In addition, everyone would have to exit out the front door, since the rear most door would be blocked. *shrug* They sure would be nice though. Perhaps someday. :)
>New Flyer should have sent down a customized demo unit for Disney,
>because it looks like DT could be an important customer for the
>Invero, considering that it is a new model.
Indeed... within the next 5-10 years, I'm guessing we'll be needing 200 or so busses to replace the RTS's... not to mention when the LFS's come off lease, I'm hoping they'll scrap 'em...
I know Shades of Green had recently purchased (?) a New Flyer D40HF about a few months before they closed for rehab... Shades of Green is a US military resort on Disney property... formerly a Disney hotel, it's now being leased by the Gov't... they have thier own transportation, which includes a few other "shuttle" type van/busses. The D40HF was thier first real transit bus, and looked quite nice. However, they closed last year for rehab, and I beleive the bus is at Arkansas Bus Exchange right now. Not sure what they'll use when they reopen next year. But at any rate... that's the closest to a New Flyer that's been down here.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Welcome to Bustalk Disney RTS, hope you enjoy it here at Bustalk. Cool, somethig different talking about Disney buses wow I had no idea they had such a old fleet you still have 1979 RTS's still rolling, if the LFS's are bad there, just imagine if they were in NYC [well, don't it'll be hazardous ;-)]. BTW, what is the fleet #'s of the RTS and Nova LFS fleets?
>I had no idea they had such a old fleet you still have 1979 RTS's
>still rolling, if the LFS's are bad there, just imagine if they were
>in NYC [well, don't it'll be hazardous ;-)]. BTW, what is the fleet
>#'s of the RTS and Nova LFS fleets?
Despite its age, our fleet is kept in remarkable condition... Sure, we have our problems and issues, but in the grand scheme of things, our busses are in great shape.
NYCTA actually did try out the LFS... #995, a '98 LFS, and #999, a '99 LFS. It was retired fairly quickly. Currently, they have two 2002 ex CTA Demos that they're using as Employee Shuttles. (956 & 957) (That's about all they're good for)
2701-2707 - 40x96 1980 GMC RTS II 04
2708-2712 - 35x96 1980 GMC RTS II 04
2713-2717 - 35x96 1981 GMC RTS II 04
2718-2720 - 35x96 1982 GMC RTS II 04
2721-2726 - 40x96 1982 GMC RTS II 04
2727-2738 - 40x96 1983 GMC RTS II 04
2739-2743 - 40x96 1987 GMC RTS II 06
2744 - 40x102 1980 GMC RTS II 04 - Originally a GM Engineering bus
Note: 2745-2780 were bought used in 1998, and rebuilt by Midwest Bus
2745-2758 - 40x102 1979/80 GMC RTS II 03 - Originally Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority, and Detroit Dept of Transportation/SEMTA
2759-2767, 2773-2778, 2780 - 40x102 1980 GMC RTS II 04 - Originally Metro Dade County Transit Authority (Miami, FL)
2768-2772, 2779 - 40x102 1981 GMC RTS II 04 - Originally Miami Valley Regional Transit Authority (Dayton, OH)
(Note... I'm still working on collecting serial numbers for the above rebuilt busses... so there may be some discepencies, but that's the basic info)
4701-4727 - 40x96 1988 TMC RTS 06
4728-4758 - 40x96 1989 TMC RTS 06
4759-4780 - 40x96 1990 TMC RTS 06
4781-4787 - 40x96 1991 TMC RTS 06
4788-4804 - 40x96 1992 TMC RTS 06
4805-4814 - 40x96 1994 TMC RTS 06 - Note, these busses are different from the rest, as they came with a Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine, and a top exhaust. All other busses have 6v92's, however 4801 is currently a test bus for switching over to S50's
4815-4832 - 40x102 2000 Nova LFS
4833-4861 - 40x102 2001 Nova LFS
4862-4885 - 40x102 2002 Nova LFS
All of the Nova LFS busses have Detroit Diesel Series 40 engines.
We also have the 2600 series, which have been dubbed the "Purple Stripers" because instead of the usual Disney Transport livery, they were given a purple and red stripe. These busses were bought used, and used as exclusivly as Cast Shuttles. All but two have been retired... 2664 & 2665... These busses feature a Disney script logo, are 35', and are used for break rooms and manager shuttles.
2650-2653 - 40x96 1981 GMC RTS II 04 - Former Long Beach Public Transportation Company (Long Beach CA)
2654-2663 - 40x96 1981 GMC RTS II 04 - Former Rock Island County Mass Transit District (Rock Island IL)
2664-2665 - 35x96 1983 GMC RTS II 04 - Former Washoe Regional Transportation Commission (Reno NV) NOTE: These are the only two left in service.
2680-2681 - 40x96 1983 GMC RTS II 04 - Former Delaware Authority for Regional Transit (Wilmington DE)
2682-2684, 2689 - 40x96 1982 GMC RTS II 04 - Former City of St Petersburg Municipal Transit System (St Petersburg FL)
Hope that's what you wanted. :)
-Tyler-
Great info, Tyler. Thanks for sharing it, and I hope you have a good time on this board.
Jim D.
I remember the two LFS demos in NYC and its good they did NOT go any further with them. Thanks for sharing the info, Tyler. You gave a lot more than I expected but that's a good thing 8-). Enjoy it here at Bustalk.
Rode this bus while working Operation Planning on Run 14 on M14 today. I just wonder if this bus GMC-RTS #3469 is the only 3400's bus still running?
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
I think there are only three 1984 RTS's running. Those are 3469, 3474, and 3562.
I've seen 3483 before.
That bus has been scrapped.
3562 is also scrapped leaving 3469 and 3474 as the only 2 1984 GMC RTS-04 left in the NYC MTA.
Get your pics and rides while you can before its too late.
#3469 Q32
#3474 M2
3469 and 3474 Who has them?
3474 was at Manhattanville - I saw it on the M5 on December 30th.
JD
3474 MAY have been sent to scrap? I haven't seen it in service in quite a while now. It's at MHV. 3469 is at HP.
#3469 Q32
#3474 M2
My bad-please ignore my comment about 3474 being sent to scrap.
Thanks.
#3474 2/5 SHUTTLE
3469-Hudson Pier
3474-Manhattanville
Does anyone have stats on the oldest busses? Obviously 3400s from 1984 are the oldest, but how many 3xxx busses are out there? I was on the B48 today, and got 3918 twice. No plate above the driver, so I have no idea how old it is. I guessed '86. Anyone know if I am at all accurate?
3918 is a 1985 RTS.
3918 twice? You should've waited for a 9100(seriously), I know I would've.
Uh, it's cold. You can wait as long as you want for a bus. Me, I'm getting warm as quickly as possable. I was only a block away from the G, and I still took 3918 again, rather than be cold for another block.
Ok, here's what I know that's still out there. Wow you got 3918 twice, that's funny.
1984 GM-3469,3474
1985 GM 3906,3918,3921,3965,3986,3987,3995,3997,4045,4116,4145,4163,4165,4214,4215,4217
Don't forget the #4019 from Hudson Pier Depot & still running.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
3902 and 3951 is still running but now welcome them to Brooklyn!
Also, what about the 3902, 3905, 3916, 3951, 3981, 4014, 4135, and 4155 (I know some of them were recently scrapped and some got dumped on FP today (read some earlier posts to that effect), but are these buses still licensed? Also, what were they thinking giving more 1985s and 1986s to FP. I live in ENY territory, and even though we have 125 1999 RTSs (5205-5249 are fmr. KB buses), the 4400s here look like crap (take a good look at 4408, 4413, 4416-4418, 4430, and 4433 in particular.
NYCT has no mercy for the Brooklyn Division, we have to suffer the worst out of all the boroughs. At least those Kingsbridge riders are still suffering with those JG hand-downs(FROM BROOKLYN!!), good for them!!
Used to see the 1986 GM's everyday on the B8 when it was in ENY [the B8 is my home route BTW so I've seen it all for 4 years before going to JG in September although I miss the B8 in UP]. 4414 is crappy looking to o[the windows oh man], I remember 4432 before it got scrapped, it used to start SO SLOW! The 3000's were WORSE man, you should remember 3076,3090,3990........
Then 3990 went to QV. Boy do I have painful memories of that bus.
The creepy crawler. Now it has been scrapped-whew!
4833-that bus has been at 3 different depots within a matter of weeks-MJQ-MHV and now FP.
I also remember riding 4414 when it was at MCH on the M7. Also rode it on the Q24 and yes it does have crappy windows.
I do feel bad for FP but remember when SE Queens was complaining?
3030 3033 4003 were going to go to Jamaica-haha! They were so bad they never made it back on the road.
And QV had the oldest buses in the system-4 1982 GMC RTS Suburbans:
1751 1767 1773 1852!
And I remember QV 4010. I saw it on the Q46 1 time-then it was scrapped...again.
I assume the reason(s) why FP is getting this junk is b/c there's no other room to put it and the routes and runs must be pretty short.
And also the Artics keep pouring in for 126/MJQ so whatever can still run-will get transferred elsewhere where they still can be used. And I guess FP needs the buses.
More moves soon-do not be surprised!
#4833 Q58
I wouldn't exactly say that the artics are pouring into 126. We still only have 4, #'s 5511,5517,5518 & 5520.
Wow you got 3918, that's funny
Yeah, if that ever happened to me, I would feel miserable. I would wait for one of the 9100's.
NOT on the B48! If it we're the B38 or B52, I won't mind waiting for the next one but usually, I just get to where I need to go, know what I'm saying. 3921 is a VERY good bus IMO.
For me, it a matter of how I feel about it. 3921 is an old hand-downs, therefore I don't look at it in a positive way. The 9100's are originals which I like much, much, more than hand-downs.
3921 was scrapped a few days ago, reasons unknown at this present time.
BIG AL
Oh, I forgot to include 4014, a 1985 GM
3562 is a goner, it's final days was in Flatbush depot [along with 3503 and 3638].
Wrong, #3562 was @ Kingsbridge Depot last month until scrapped & it did ran on Bx11. I have a picture of #3562 before scrapped.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
Really, I'm surprised at that; I stand corrected!
It went from FB-QV-KB then to scrap. Rode this bus as well on the Q46 1 time.
#3562 Q46
I saw 3469 on the M14 today too! I saw it as I was about to get off 8203 on the M14 at 9 ave to catch the M11 and I had #5196 on M11.
Lets see what I had on the Q32 today:
6125 228 9501 and 9607.
Also to include 531 and 574 (2 TIMES) on the Q104.
5501 and 5548 Q60
Whew!
What a busy day!
#9501 Q32
#574 Q104
#5501 Q60
Nope saw 3474 running on the 2/5 shuttle bus yesterday.
While working Operations Planning on M14 today, saw some buses that running today are #3469, #4362, #4552, #4877, #8234 non-power, #8203 non-power, #8229 & #8259 both re-power also in the depot are #3809, #4159, #4163, #4327, #4883 most of them are 8400's, 8500's, 9400,'s & 9500's.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
That explains why I saw about every M14 Bus with a TA Worker sitting on the front seat near the driver.
BTW where you on #9517 or on #8203? I was on those today on the M14
There were checkers on every Q32 that I rode on today-even 1 I saw at 1215 this morning.
#6130 Q32
Q46, I was on #3469 Run14 until 12pm.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
BTW: TCO/OP is no longer with MaBSTOA and we now call MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
Last Tuesday 2/4/2003 while working Bus Eveness Survey at Av H/Utica Ave on B6 from 830am to 1300pm. There are more 4700/4800's & 7500's running more on B6 than 9000/9100's. Here is the list i saw
#4742 soft seat, #4753, #4755-#4756, #4764, #4772, #4774, #4779, #4780, #4782, #4786, #4854-#4855, #4857, #4858, #4859, #4860, #4861, #4863, #4871, #4874.
#7513, #7516, #7521, #7522, #7523, #7524, #7528.
#9079, #9081, #9083, #9090, #9095, #9096, #9104.
Also on B46 #4116, #4440, #8019-NP, #8025-NP, #8088-RP.
BTW: I will be doing Bus Point Check this tuesday at Hardway Av/Bay 37th St near Ulmer Park Depot on B6 Terminal.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
Did you saw any Command BM2 and B103 Buses?
Damn, the B6 really gets dumped with those 4700's, and I thought Fresh Pond routes had it bad. I hope UP gets newer buses so all of that can change for the B6.
The buses get from one end of the line to the other and back again, and they're air-conditioned and lift-equipped. Do the customers really care about anything else?
David
I saw 9300 at Rockaway Parkway at about 10:00pm yesterday on the B6.
Robert
I usually see that whenever I ride the B6 mostly 4700/4800's. A lot of the 1996 Novas I see are on the B1 and B36 and you won't see a soft seater on the 6 for crowding reasons.
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I saw an Orion Suburban # 140 i think with the hard seats installed. The raised platforms were left in place.Looked kind of strange.
Is the plan to re seat all of the Suburbans? Where did this bus come from?
OMG! You saw my good old friend #140. I LOVE #140!!! Where did you saw #140???
Q 32
YES!!! I guessing 140 knew where I be at! I going to see if 140 comes next week to the Q74 line and I be happy :)
So I guess 140 went to CS to join Orion #146. Maybe more converted Orions will be going to CS.
Are you sure it was 140 and NOT 146?
146 has the hard seats in it already.
#146 Q32
I'm not sure, I didn't make this topic. Next time I decide to do a bus trip, I will wait by the Q74 to see if 140 or 146 are on it.
According to www.transitalk.org, bus #140 is at Michael J. Quill bus Depot. I saw bus #153 on the M27 on the news in Times Square (repowered). Anyways, it's bus #146 with hard seats from Casey Stengel. IOf bus #140 has hard seats, then it will be in Manhattan. Unless the roster changed...again. You never with the MTA-NYCT!
Ray
Its #146, #140 is at Quill awaiting inspection, and is not in service.
i saw 146 on the 44/20 yesterday, unaware that it had hard seats as i haven't really been paying attention to what's getting what seats.
Thats why i put a question mark on the post --- maybe it was 146
I've rode a converted Suburban on a Q20A one time.
How much of the Orion Fleet at Stengel - is original? Whichbuses are from SI?
any buses in cs, qv or jamaica numbered 101-172 are original staten island coaches. also buses 611-630 are 1995 castleton coaches. only 140 has had hard seats installed.
631-680 are former Yukon Buses. 505-580 I think started off at KB before they went to CS/QV. Did 452-456 start at AMS?
I know for sure 425 did.
Other than that 6120-6141 and 2896-2907 are the only buses that CS can officially call theirs.
#2907 x51
#6125 Q32
I believe 452-456 started out of J. Gleason. I remember seeing 454 on the B48 very frequently, before the B48 got transfered to F.Pond.
Not just 452-456, but I also remember buses 457 and 458 frequently on the B9 and B37 routes in JG before the entire group left for CS.
227-232 are original CS,along with 291-298 and 400-401 plus 522,524-580 were at CS from day one.
Most of the 500s are, arriving around january-february 1996, i would say 226-232 and 256-316 as well, arriving in 1993
The original Stengel Orions are as follows:
1993: 227-232 and 291-297, 299-300.
1994: 400-401.
1995: 522, 524-580.
1999: 6120-6141.
From Yukon:
1993: 101-119, 138 and 146.
1996: 631-680.
From Kingsbridge:
256-290, 298, 301-316.
Mark
Okay, here it is:
Buses #227-232, #291-297, #299-300 and #400-401 are the original buses at the Casey Stengel Bus Depot.
In 1995, I remember seeing bus #505 making a left onto Main St off Roosevelt Av. So buses #505-580 came in 1995.
Then buses #452-458 came to CS in 1997-1998, then they went to Amsterdam Bus Depot in 1998. I remember riding bus #457 on the Q28 and seeing bus #458 on the Q76.
Buses #404 and #425 came in 1999 along with buses #6120-6141 (#6141 came later. Buses #6120-6140 was the original assignment)
Then obviously buses #631-680 came over in 1998-1999. I remember seeing bus #666 (go figure) on the Q44 around 11-21-99 (my birthday)
Hope that helps.
Ray
Well - I can tell you about those that wewre originally KB buses.
233-290, 298, 301-316, 402-451
Wayne
Yesterday, I decided to ride the 2/5 shuttle bus, I recommend it b/c it has a express bus which runs via the Bruckner and Sheridan. I might even ride it later on today. The L shuttle [Lorimer-Bway Junction] was busy last week but THIS was even more crazy and people weren't familiar with the shuttle bus there as opposed to L riders. I leave at 1:45pm so I start out by taking the B8 to Newkirk Av station then I hop on the Q and I ride it to Atlantic Av where I would wait for the 4. I just missed it so i had to wait about 7-8 minutes before the next one came. So then the next 4 comes and I ride it to 149 St/GC where I will go outside and wait for the shuttle bus.
So I'm outside and I let a few buses go until I hop on Artic 5406, a express. So we load the passengers and we're off onto the expressway we go 40mph; the max on a artic. We're going at good speed hit a few bumps on the Sheridan and the driver didn't go all the way around to East 180 St, he just turned left on Morris Park Av 8-). Then I go on the opposite direction to catch 9639 and I take it via express back to 149 St but I got a capped bus going 35-40 max. Got off and I decide to take a local bus at least once, so I wait for 9489 and a wheelchair comes on, a shuttle bus first for me & he's getting off at 174 St. So it gets jam packed and we're off. We do good but the traffic at the Hub really takes some time. Then we continue and we drive the wrong way via Westchester Av for a while due to the work before Jackson Av. Then we do average speed throughout the run and there was like 7 of us left by time we reach E 180 St.
Since the local was so time consuming, I decided not to ride it again and it was strictly expresses for me. So I hop on 8049 [non-repower :-)] and I ride in the front seat and we go about 45mph only b/c the driver had to look at the paper for the route since it seems like he never did the express in the that direction. So I cross the street and I was hoping to ride Orion 468 since I had to let it go the first time. I BARELY got a seat in the bus since people swarmed the bus to sit down. We go about 40mph on the expressway and it was very crowded but it had some beautiful sights; once again for those who like shuttle buses consider riding this today. Then I arrive at East 180 St for the third time[LOL]. So I wait inside the station hoping to get a Brooklyn bus to cap off my trip. So I had to wait about 15 minutes before 9332 and 5060 was the next buses but 9332 was assigned to the local :-\ but 5060 was fine, still Brooklyn 8-). The fastest driver of all on the express run, going 55mph at one point. The sun was setting and the sights was extroadinary, great picture taking opportunities.
I arrive at 149 St/GC and now it was time to go home. So I go downstairs and I wait for the 5 to come and I get on it, taking it to 42 St/Grand Central [since trains ere switched to the local track] rode the TS Shuttle to Times Sq, caught the Q and I took it to Newkirk and I went home.
Here's all the buses I saw. Enjoy!
ENY: 4641,4959,5017,5208,8340,8693
UP: 4781,9301,9305,9314,9324,9328,9332
JG: 8455,8532,8538,8547,8550,8551,8553
FB: 5079,5087,5097,5108,5109
FP: 5060,9141,9594
126: 5027,5037,5039,5047,7539,7554,8199
MV: 3474,4145,4822,8264,8283,8755,9005,9007
MJQ: 5170,5173,5184,9632,9639
MCH: 186,225,248,255,468,470,6001,6011,6024,6035
KB: 1080,1087,5428,5432,5446,5461,5483
GH: 407,5250,5372,5406,8049
HP: 4546,8493,8495,9489,9495,9522
R68 2750 (Q)
R62 1520 (4)
Artic 5406 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 9639 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 9489 LCL SHUTTLE
RTS 8049 EXP SHUTTLE
Orion 468 EXP SHUTTLE
RTS 5060 EXP SHUTTLE
R62 1354 (5)
R62A 1921 (S) Times Sq
R68 2800 (Q)
How come the Bronx needed Brooklyn Division Buses? The Queens Division is closer. Those Bronx riders don't deserve our buses.
Well Ridgewood, I don't know what to tell you but I will tell you this, the Brooklyn drivers held it down in terms of speed 8-)! I got a FP bus on my last trip before I headed home and that was the fastest bus I had. You know I was real surprised that no Queens buses were out there, last time this GO happened back in October the Queens buses, mainly QV had lots of buses out there. Drivers volunteer to do shuttle buses I believe.
At least the Bronx riders don't get to see the JG New Flyers, they certainly don't deserve them. I think the Brooklyn depots should had sent their oldest buses. I would have liked to see those Bronx riders get our 4600's/4700's and maybe even the 3997, *evil smile*.
Just like brooklyn doesn't deserve artics.....I can't wait for Brooklyn to get some more GH and KB hand me downs....*evil grin*
But they got to see the RTS softseaters from UP :-(. OOO, that was evil Ridgewood, 3997 I like that *evil laugh BWAHAHAHA*. At least MOST of our buses in Brooklyn aren't at a fixed max speed 8-).
Yeah, those Bronx riders shouldn't even have gotten UP's soft seaters. At least the recliners on most of the seats are broken, so they don't truly get the full enjoyment of them. :)
They should of been hit with the 4800's that CAME from KB 8-), give a little reunion know what I'm saying. YAY, no reclining for them :-P.
they should have sent all of Brooklyn's 1985 buses (including ENY 4014), and MV 3474 and HP 3469. These buses, esp. 3474, would have been PERFECT for the Bronx, especially those riders on KB's RTS routes stuck with the 3900s, 4300s, 4400s, and some JG hand-me-downs.
Heh, heh, heh, those Kingsbridge riders would have loved those buses *smlies*
Are you new? If you are, I'm glad to see another Brooklyn Bustalker here, its just what we needed. :)
Supporting the Brookyln bus fleet. I'm a Fresh Pond bustalker. There are a couple of others here who talk about the other Brooklyn buses. I'll let them state what area they represent.
Yes, I am new to this. BTW, were the 4400s (4408-4469, whatever is left) KB hand-me-downs? And what about the 4497 in UP? (I believe that 4482 was originally in West Farms or whatever depot was near the Cross Bronx and Bronx Rver Ave), I remember seeing it off the Cross Bronx more than a decade back.)
I think those 4400's came from Walnut(now closed), 4497 I don't remember exactly, maybe someone can help me with this.
Most of the 4400's [4407-4469] was in MCH and a few was probably in KB. As you know, they went to ENY[4407-4428,4430-4434] and FB[4436-4469 with gaps in between], 4429 ended up in QV somehow. Some of the GM's in ENY are gone now, some from FB is gone too, here's the numbers of the scrapped ones that I know of.
ENY:4407,4409,4412,4415,4421,4423,4432,4434
FB:4454
If I left out any or if I'm wrong, correct me. Thanx.
PS-I think 4497 did in fact come from Walnut but bounced around a few times before settling in UP.
I saw 4497 in Walnut one time. It was a shell, perhaps it burnt up, its' number barely visible. It was o/s for many years. It was a tribute to the shops that this bus was resurrected. It went to UP once soft, low back seats were installed following repair. I rode it on the Canarsie-Bway Jct. shuttle some months ago. It is a good running bus.
This is the kind of soft-seater that UP should have. Maybe once some transfers are done in Manhattan, 7038-7049 could come to UP from 126.
Welcome to Bustalk ENY Nova 5205, hope you enjoy it here. As you see, I am another Brooklyn man rooting for "fairness" for us, we get hit with all the damn hand me down RTS's and it will continue for the forseeable future. I have love for ALL 5 Brooklyn depots but my home line is the B8, which is JG now but I love the Flatbush depot buses.
To answer your question, most of the 4400's came from Mother Clara Hale actually, a few may have came from KB though. West Farms was already closed when the 1986 GM's came so it was probably in Coliseum at first.
and now some fmr. KB buses are now in FP. Remember the 4200s?
Oh, the 4200's are long gone from FP [thank goodness].
Those 4200's from were some of the worst buses. 4201 was meant to torture the people of Ridgewood.
Hehe! And I got a pic of that bus somewhere when it was on the Q58.
Rode it too.
#4201 Q58
Those 4200's from Kingsbridge were some of the worst buses. 4201 was meant to torture the people of Ridgewood.
Can anyone tell me which depot will be getting the orion 7 buses? Will they be coming to Staten island depot too?
Is jackie gleason depot getting Orion 7 or more flyers?
CNG Orion 7's will be going to Gleason shortly while Mother Hale and Queens Village will be receiving the new dual mode buses by end of June hopefully
Thank You
I heard about new flyer. Are those the one at Gleason depot already or are there newer one? Now the orion buses at Manhattanville are those orion 7, series 63??.
JG: CNG Orion7's
QV & MCH: Hybrid Orion7's
Staten Island is not getting any.
BTW, I'm suprised this is not a Trivia.
no trivia right now I want facts about the orions because there are not to many of then out there in New york and us Brooklyn head want to see new buses. I'm sick of them f**king RTS.
Are you drinking? Those new buses have less space and are too squarish, I would rather have the new Artics in Brooklyn.
I have no problem with Brooklyn having a lot of RTS's, as long if it gets mostly Novas(mainly from 96')
Spoke to a couple of Flatbush Depot drivers todays and they heard that Flatbush may be getting articulated buses after all.
One operator told me that a Superintendent told him so.
Thank You
It's not up to any individual depot-level superintendent; the Department of Buses has a "Fleet Assignment" group that determines what goes where. Until the official roster reflects specific bus types at specific depots, it's all just rumors and speculation.
We can only pray.
But if it is true I notice there would have to be changes in Flatbush route. For one thing the true where the B44 turn on Fulton st from New york av. I think an artic would have a problem there and at Williamsburg brige not enough room for alot of b46 to park there and the b49 at Fulton and Franklin turn. There is a problem there. If(hopefully) Flatbush would ever get artic not all route could use them.
Ok, assuming Artics made their way to Brooklyn, there would be spots that had to be surveyed. See what happens when you contribute, you don't always have to ask a question. Anyway back on topic, I really don't think the B49 would need artics outside of rush hours or at all, it would be earmarked for the 41,44 and 46; it would be nice to see them here but we'll just have to wait and see.
Besides the locations you mentioned other places that would have to be looked at include:
Kings Plaza for the 41 & 46
The turn for Broadway onto Malcolm X Blvd on the 46 [s/b]
The Eastern Parkway bus stop on the 46
The turn onto Court St on the 41 [n/b]
Also bus stops, especially LTD stops on the 41,44 and 46 would most likely have to be modified. Lets say Artics arrive here right now, the 44 would have the least problems with them entering service. REMEMBER this is all speculation and possibilities.
At Kings Plaza, the B46 and B42 may have to make that left turn from the second lane, or who knows maybe it can make the turn.
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
That should be B41 not B42.
My Fault, That's what I meant.
There is plenty of room at Kings Plaza for the turn. If not part of the cement driveway extention from the parking lot can be shaved back to give 5 extra feet if needed. The greater issue as posted by some astute Bustalk memebers is that there may not be enough room to park multiple artics at KP
The only issue i see is running artics will reduce the frequency of B41, B46 giving the dollar vans an even greater opurtunity. Would it not be wiser to run low floor buses to both reduce the dwell time and speed service.
"The Eastern Parkway bus stop on the 46"
What about it? That bus stop takes up an entire city block in both directions. Its been like that for years now.
Da Beastmaster
Why would the artic, if they come to Brooklyn, have a problem on the turn on Court Street. There is a enough room for two artic to turn there at the same time. Kings plaza shouldn't be a problem for them turning either. There is alot of space there. there just can't turn in the first lane. If artic come to Brooklyn the 41 and 44 wouldn't have any problem with them accept fulton and new york ave on the 44. the 41 should be great for them.
Yup that turn on Fulton and New York can be a problem, I live on New York Ave. and take the B44 to the Nostrand Ave. Train Station all the time and that left turn is dangerous, but I think the Artics can handle it, maybe they can push the lines back for the Artics on Fulton Street.
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
I heard the same too, lets just see what happens........
Da Beastmaster
On what lifts will these artics be serviced assuming this rumor is true? It's a long way to Kingsbridge where they'll fit.
Funny...maybe they will consider sending them to Gunhill!!!
The rumors are not true as I've been telling these guys all along, but hope springs eternal..
No artics to Flatbush until Kings Plaza is redone.
BIG AL
Al,
It was Flatbush Depot drivers who told me about the articulated bus coming to Flatbush.
The only problem is the fuel station and thats it.
Kings Plaza is not considered a problem
Thank You
artics are not coming to flatbush anytime soon.there are more problems than just kings plaza and the fuel station.
artics are only a pipe dream right now for any depots in brooklyn
Today while I was in Fresh Meadows I saw 144 running the Q88 line and still have CAS Stickers.
The last time I saw #144 was back doing the LIRR SHUTTLE in Summer of 2001 and just left back to CAS after spending a summer in Queens and all the summer in Queens it had a CAS Sticker.
I think it's time 144 should stay and be part of the QV Family by placeing a QV Sticker and thats the only way 144 is now part of the QV Family for good!!
Orion #144 has already been in QV for more then 3 weeks. Its not like it just arrived in QV.
Was at QV around noon, didn't see 144 < grin >
Yes, I had a business reason for this "private" bus company employee to be at a TA depot. Saw a lot of RTS buses.
It was exciting once again just like the previous 2 times.I left my house at about 12:15 cause I wanted to get a little train trip done before I rode with Trevor.So I took the 1 to 137St and waited there for a 3 train with a railfan window.After 2 trains left,both ex-Pelham cars,I got a completely R62A single 3 train, lead car #2046, and rode it to Utica Av before I turned back on the 4 train,took that to BB then hoped on a J train to Jamaica Center and from there I took the E to West 4th St then turned back uptown since the E was running on 6th Av but unlike other times when it ran to 2Av,this time it ran to Chambers-WTC.
Afterwards,I arrived at the PABT with a half hour to spare so I just lounged around till just after 5 and then went up to gate 220 to wait for Trev to show up.He arrived on time at 5:15 and he had bus #8486 and just mentioning that was the start of one hectic/exciting round trip.
We left the PABT 2mins late but it was ok cause we got to the GWB with time to spare.I was amazed at how many people were on the bus today.32! We picked up 15 at the PABT and 17 at GWB.So we have a smooth ride to New City,people getting off at different places,got at good view of the TappanZee Bridge as we passed by it,it looks really nice at night,I liked how the bridge looked with all its lights on.
The bus we had was a bit bad cause it wasn't functioning properly,add to that that the seat Trevor was sitting on was broken too.Every time he started the bus suddenly,the seat moved back cause the handle to hold the seat in place was broken.But that was just the tip of the iceberg.
We arrived at New City 5mins early then we went to Boston Market to buy our dinner's and when we returned to the shopping center so Trev could get to his favorite parking spot,damnit! he literally took me off my seat with the sharp turn he made at the speed he was going.I thought I was gonna fall down.Not to mention by doing that he even knocked my meal down from where I had it on the floor between my legs but no harm done from that.So we eat and chill till it's time to leave at 7:40 back to the PABT and on the way back,there was at least 3 people who gave him 20 dollar bills and we all know he's not supposed to take those.It's really unbelieveable how 3 times I've ridden with him and everytime I've seen someone give him a 20 and other times that it hasn't been him behind the wheel,I've never seen anyone with a 20 dollar bill.Now that's a bit crazy if you ask me.
I got one real good laugh on that trip back to PABT.There was one woman who asked if he went to the bridge and he said no and the lady didnt bother to ask if he stopped at the Bridge Plaza.Just after we left her is when Trev said that the next bridge bus was in an hour and I just cracked up.Oh goddamn that hurts!The rest of the trip was good,barely any traffic at all approaching the Lincoln Tunnel.I wish it was like that everyday during the rush hours.
Overall it was an excellent trip as always and I look forward to riding with him again which will be this Thursday when he does his 21 trip out of the PABT at 6:10 and returns to the GWB as a 84.If anyone wishes to join me be my guest,I look forward to meeting you.Especially Ridgewood and Flatbush,you two really intrigue me,I'd like to meet the both of you so I hope you are able to come with me on Thursday.
I don't think I could come Thursday b/c I have a afternoon class :-(. The next time you're going on a trip with Trevor, then I'll probably come through.
The next time will be Thursday unless something happen's.If something comes up then I'll go next Thursday but either way the next trip with Trevor on the 21 and 84 will be the last for a long time to come.
Can't make this seem like a habit now.I won't see Trev after this ride with him untill my trip to Norwalk,CT on 3/3/03 if he decide's to go.And it is on a Monday,his day off, so we'll see.
On last night's episode of NBC's 'Kingpin', there was a scene showing what was supposed to be a Houston Flxible Metro. The scene was shot from the sidewalk - the bus passes the camera and stops with the rear doors in the center of screen and the character we're following gets off through the rear doors. The bus had the word 'Metro' above the front wheel and diagonal stripes on the side, but I don't know enough about Houston's buses to tell if it was the real thing or a Hollywood re-creation.
Jim D.
For all photographers out there, check out the thread entitled 'The Photographer's Right' on SubTalk. The original posting contains a link to a site containing vital information on your rights as a photographer. This is critical information that all bus photographers should know.
Stand up for your rights as a photographer.
Jim D.
Thanks for informing us about that article. Having that in your possession will no doubt shut up a lot of the gung ho employees who think that they are the law.
Troy
Not necesarilly. Are there statutes regarding photography on/of municipal property? Are there regulations covered in the NYCRR? I don't know. Does anyone?
------------------ Complete Article Text Below -----------------------
The Photographer’s Right
About this Guide
Confrontations that impair the con-stitutional
right to make images are
becoming more common. To fight the
abuse of your right to free expression,
you need to know your rights to take
photographs and the remedies avail-able
if your rights are infringed.
The General Rule
The general rule in the United States
is that anyone may take photographs
of whatever they want when they are
in a public place or places where they
have permission to take photographs.
Absent a specific legal prohibition
such as a statute or ordinance, you are
legally entitled to take photographs.
Examples of places that are tradition-ally
considered public are streets,
sidewalks, and public parks.
Property owners may legally pro-hibit
photography on their premises
but have no right to prohibit others
from photographing their property
from other locations. Whether you
need permission from property own-
ers to take photographs while on their
premises depends on the circum-stances.
In most places, you may rea-sonably
assume that taking photo-graphs
is allowed and that you do not
need explicit permission. However,
this is a judgment call and you should
request permission when the circum-stances
suggest that the owner is like-ly
to object. In any case, when a prop-erty
owner tells you not to take photo-graphs
while on the premises, you are
legally obligated to honor the request.
Some Exceptions to the Rule
There are some exceptions to the
general rule. A significant one is that
commanders of military installations
can prohibit photographs of specific
areas when they deem it necessary to
protect national security. The U.S.
Department of Energy can also pro-hibit
photography of designated
nuclear facilities although the publicly
visible areas of nuclear facilities are
usually not designated as such.
Members of the public have a very
limited scope of privacy rights when
they are in public places. Basically,
anyone can be photographed without
their consent except when they have
secluded themselves in places where
they have a reasonable expectation of
privacy such as dressing rooms, rest-rooms,
medical facilities, and inside
their homes.
Permissible Subjects
Despite misconceptions to the con-trary,
the following subjects can
almost always be photographed law-fully
from public places:
accident and fire scenes
children
celebrities
bridges and other infrastructure
residential and commercial buildings
industrial facilities and public utilities
transportation facilities (e.g., airports)
Superfund sites
criminal activities
law enforcement officers
Who Is Likely to Violate Your Rights
Most confrontations are started by
security guards and employees of
organizations who fear photography.
The most common reason given is
security but often such persons have
no articulated reason. Security is
rarely a legitimate reason for restrict-ing
photography. Taking a photo-graph
is not a terrorist act nor can a
business legitimately assert that tak-ing
a photograph of a subject in public
view infringes on its trade secrets.
On occasion, law enforcement offi-cers
may object to photography but
most understand that people have the
right to take photographs and do not
interfere with photographers. They do
have the right to keep you away from
areas where you may impede their
activities or endanger safety. How-ever,
they do not have the legal right
to prohibit you from taking photo-graphs
from other locations.
They Have Limited Rights to Bother,
Question, or Detain You
Although anyone has the right to
approach a person in a public place
and ask questions, persistent and
unwanted conduct done without a
legitimate purpose is a crime in many
states if it causes serious annoyance.
You are under no obligation to answer
such questions in any state and do not
have to disclose your identity or the
purpose of your photography.
If the conduct goes beyond mere
questioning, all states have laws that
make coercion and harassment crimi-nal
offenses. The specific elements
vary among the states but in general it
is unlawful for anyone to instill a fear
that they may injure you, damage or
take your property, or falsely accuse
you of a crime just because you are
taking photographs.
Private parties have very limited
rights to detain you against your will
and may be subject to criminal and
civil charges should they attempt to
do so. Although the laws in most
states authorize citizen’s arrests, such
authority is very narrow. In general,
citizen’s arrests can be made only for
felonies or crimes committed in the
person’s presence. Failure to abide by
these requirements usually means
that the person is liable for a tort such
as false imprisonment.
They Have No Right to Confiscate
Your Film
Sometimes agents acting for entities
such as owners of industrial plants
and shopping malls may ask you to
hand over your film. Absent a court
order, private parties have no right to
confiscate your film. Taking your film
directly or indirectly by threatening to
use force or call a law enforcement
agency can constitute criminal offens-es
such as theft and coercion. It can
likewise constitute a civil tort such as
conversion. Law enforcement officers
may have the authority to seize film
when making an arrest but otherwise
must obtain a court order.
Your Legal Remedies If Harassed
If someone has threatened, intimidat-ed,
or detained you because you were
taking photographs, they may be
liable for crimes such as kidnapping,
coercion, and theft. In such cases, you
should report them to the police.
You may also have civil remedies
against such persons and their
employers. The torts for which you
may be entitled to compensation
include assault, conversion, false
imprisonment, and violation of your
constitutional rights.
Other Remedies If Harassed
If you are disinclined to take legal
action, there are still things you can do
that contribute to protecting the right
to take photographs.
(1) Call the local newspaper and see if
they are interested in running a story.
Many newspapers feel that civil liber-ties
are worthy of serious coverage.
(2) Write to or call the supervisor of
the person involved, or the legal or
public relations department of the
entity, and complain about the event.
(3) Make the event publicly known on
an Internet forum that deals with pho-tography
or civil rights issues.
How to Handle Confrontations
Most confrontations can be defused
by being courteous and respectful. If
the party becomes pushy, combative,
or unreasonably hostile, consider call-ing
the police. Above all, use good
judgment and don’t allow an event to
escalate into violence.
In the event you are threatened with
detention or asked to surrender your
film, asking the following questions
can help ensure that you will have the
evidence to enforce your legal rights:
1. What is the person’s name?
2. Who is their employer?
3. Are you free to leave? If not, how do
they intend to stop you if you decide
to leave? What legal basis do they
assert for the detention?
4. Likewise, if they demand your film,
what legal basis do they assert for the
confiscation?
Disclaimer
This is a general education guide
about the right to take photographs
and is necessarily limited in scope. For
example, it does not cover important
issues such as publication and copy-right.
For more information about the
laws that affect photography, I refer
you to my book, Legal Handbook for
Photographers (Amherst Media, 2002).
This guide is not intended to be legal
advice nor does it create an attorney
client relationship. Readers should
seek the advice of a competent attor-ney
when they need legal advice
regarding a specific situation.
published by:
Bert P. Krages II
Attorney at Law
6665 S.W. Hampton Street, Suite 200
Portland, Oregon 97223
www.krages.com
© 2003 Bert P. Krages II
Your Rights and
Remedies When
Stopped or
Confronted
for Photography
February 2003
As others and myself noted on SubTalk, photography on transit (and railroad) property is different - photographers are definitely subject to the rules established by the property owner. So, nobody should take this pamphlet and think that it overrides the NYCRR regulations, PATH's prohibitions, etc. By the same token, if you engage in the photography of buses at shopping malls, hospitals or private businesses, you are subject to whatever rules the property owner decides - many shopping malls do, in fact, prohibit photography on the premises without prior permission. There are a few other exceptions as well that constitute a prohibition of photography (military installations and nuclear facilities, to name two).
However, 'The Photographer's Right' does spell out some important rights that we enjoy as photographers (and that must be exercised and protected by us if we wish to retain them) - to summarize:
- That we have the right to engage in photography in public places - we can photograph buses operating on public streets.
- That we have the right to photograph private property as viewed from public places - in other words, we can photograph any bus we want to if it is operated along or can be viewed from a public street.
- That we can photograph people who are in public places (except if they have secluded themselves in a place where they can reasonably expect privacy - i.e., restrooms, dressing rooms, medical facilities, their homes, etc.). In other words, no transit employee can try and stop us from taking their picture when they are engaged in the performance of their job duties (I have had more than one transit employee 'get in my face' about this in 20-plus years of transportation photography).
- That private parties have only very limited rights to question or detain us, and that they themselves may be subject to civil and criminal penalties if they persist in doing so.
- That no one has the right to confiscate our cameras and/or film without a court order - even a law enforcement officer can only do this as part of an arrest.
As I've noted in other postings, a transit photographer would be wise to use common sense in these touchy times, and will likely enjoy a far more productive and hassle-free day if they do so. But, by all means, get out there and take some pictures! Don't be scared into giving up your pursuit of happiness. As soon as we get some nice weather here in Upstate, I will be back on the street and using my camera.
Don't give up your rights.
Jim D.
Hi there bustalkers. I'm from England and pretty soon will be visiting NYC for a few days. Whilst I'm there I intend to take some bus photos!
On my last visit I found the area round the PA Bus Terminal to be a good place to get shots, generally of buses parked awaiting their next trip. Does anyone out there have any other ideas about locations to take decent bus photos around the PABT? I'm particularly interested in the New Jersey Transit fleet.
And does anyone have any ideas for other good places (ie, lots of bus activity) to take bus photos around Manhattan?
Thank you in advance!!
The corner of 40th street and Dyer ave just west of the PABT is a good spot to see the NJT buses coming out of the tunnel and going up the ramp into the bus terminal.
Troy
Also a good spot is sitting at the entrance of the Lincoln Tunnel at 39th St. That's what I do HOWEVER, do not take pics over there. It's not allowed. You can't take pics of the tunnel itself especially after 9/11. Although I still sit there just to observe.
Ray
Once you've had your fill of NJ Transit, check out East 57th Street between Madison Ave. and 2nd Avenue, especially on a weekday - you'll see buses from NYC Transit and all of the NYC DOT private operators (N.Y. Bus Service and Liberty Lines run along 5th Ave. and Madison, while Command, Green Lines, Jamaica Bus, Queens Surface and Triboro express buses run along East 57th). I did this in December, and had a blast.
Jim D.
(1) 42d Street and 5th Avenue, on the Public Library steps: Good views of NYCT Orions and RTS on 5th Ave. and 42d Street routes, and Liberty and NY Bus Service express buses along 5th Ave. Also NYCT MCI express coaches on 5th Ave. Also NY Waterway Ferry buses on 42d Street.
(2) 79th or 86th Streets and Broadway: New Flyer Articulateds on the 79th and 86th Crosstown lines, and Orions on the M104 Broadway. Lots of good and inexpensive restaurants in this area also.
(3) And if you want to take a subway ride first, take the #7 train to Main Street/Flushing, the last stop, about 30 minutes from Times Square. Lots of bus movements in the area, as this is the biggest single bus/subway transfer point outside Manhattan. NYCT, Queens Surface, and LI Bus routes all converge here.
Not much-same old same old. One question though. I was on the B36 with #7528 and the farebox wasnt working. The driver said the box wasnt working since ealry morning. If a driver knows the box snt working, instead of running without picking up fares, isnt it easier to swap buses?
B1-#9316-NOVABUS
B64-#4785-TMCRTS
To David "cooliest" Justiano, i will try to stop by Harway and bay 37th tomorrow after work-hope to meet u.
To Caine824, I will be working from 0530am to 1130am at the last stop at Hardway & Bay 37St on B6 line & you will see me with clipbroad, MTA Vest & my NYCT TCO/OP hat.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
i was there at 2pm-no wonder i didnt see you ;-(
To Caine824, did you see a Male Traffic Checker Operation standing next to bus stop? I was there untill almost 1pm because TCO suppose to make relief at 1130am but i found out TCO call in sick so i have to wait someone to make relief for me.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
World News....
Steven the Dell Guy got arrest in Manhattan for buy a nickel bag of pot, weed, ganja, indo, mary g. hoochie or what ever you'd like to call it. Expect the Sales of Dell Computers to Slow Down REAL quick!!!!!!
Dell, American's Favorite PC and Rollin' Papers!
Trev
I swore off Dell when they *started* using that annoying asshole in their commercials.
Peace,
ANDEE
:) that will really e fun to see him on commercials again LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aww crap, I've got a drug related computer now.....
Heh...now I can have some sort of moral standing for using an Apple Macintosh (just kidding).
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
New Slogan:
"Dude!!!! You're getting a doobie!!!!"
Dude!!!!!! You're Getting A Splif!
How about something with an Islands feel to it:
Dude....ya gettin' a dutchie mon!
Dude, you're getting a new boyfriend...LOL!
Ray
Ahh, no surprise the Dell dude was doing the ganja 8-).
I wonder, what his fresh, tender ass will get in the jail market?
1 carton of Cigarettes? 2 cartons? Maybe the fact that he's a celebrity, he'll fetch 3 cartons.
Steve the Dell Guy got off easy...
Steve better known as Ben Curtis has been told his misdemeanor drug possession charge will be thrown out if he stays out of trouble for the next year. Police said he was arrested Sunday night on the Lower East Side after officers on a drug detail spotted him buying a small bag of marijuana from Omar Mendez, 19. Mendez faces drug sale and possession charges.The judge at the 22-year-old New York University drama student's arraignment told him his case would be dismissed and his record cleaned if he doesn't get arrested during the next year.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
It was better off he they put the guy behind bars or something.Dell comp's suck.The nearest bank to my home got new Dell comps and mostly all the teller's didn't know what the hell to do. I had to stand online for a half hour!Not once,but twice! My dad made me go back again when I couldn't get one of his check's deposited.
I read an article a while ago about Ben Curtis and I thought he was smarter than that.Getting into drugs is a bad thing, and the 3rd Watch show last night proved it. The only neat thing on the show was the ending where Bosco gets it on with his female Sarg. She was so impressed with him saving everybody in the drug fire she had the "hots" for him. This only a short time after her sister died...
O' to Television...
Chuck Greene
"his misdemeanor drug possession charge will be thrown out if he stays out of trouble for the next year."
Maybe the best way he can stay out of trouble for a year is to hook him up with Winona Ryder................why's everyone laughing ?
Bill "Newkirk"
"I wonder, what his fresh, tender ass will get in the jail market?"
Sending Ben Curtis to jail isn't harsh enough. sentence him to drive a Gillig Phantom for a week !
Bill "Newkirk"
Please think ahead when you make this kind of comments, as you are not only making me down, but also insulting the drivers who are driving them for a living as well as the 3 drivers in Bustalk.
You are just making a driver equals to a criminal!
Stephen
But you know sometimes I question if I did something wrong when I do get assigned at Gillig.
:o)
Trevor
It was on the radio out here on the west coast ---only thing is, they said he was arrested while wearing a skirt!!!
Was this guy a cross-dresser??
It wasn't a skirt. According to Newsday he was wearing a Tuxedo top and a kilt after ducking out of a party with a Scottish theme. Still sounds weird. "Dude, you're getting a CELL".
Dude!!! I got a Dell!!!!
Da Beastmaster
Did you get the bonus package upgrade?
1) Dime Bag of Weed
2) Bambu Rolling Papers
3) Dutch Masters Blunt
4) A Bic Lighter
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I'll take door number 1, 2, and 4 please. Thank you :-)
ROTFLMAO. No I did not. I think I might have to call them about that.
Da Beastmaster
Geez, and all this time I thought pot was a GATEWAY drug....
Peace,
ANDEE
Ever wonder how the NYC system of designating subway lines would work in other cities? Well I took the liberty of using the system to designate lines in cities like Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Philly, San Francisco, and Washington, DC. So here are my examples:
ATLANTA:
This system has two routes that branch off each line, so the routing system would look like this:
North-South/ 1-Doraville-Airport, 2-North Springs-Airport
East-West/ 3-Indian Creek-Hamilton E Holmes. 4-King Memorial(Vine City late nights)-Bankhead.
BOSTON:
With the Green line using letters (B,C,D,E) the other heavy-rail routes would be assigned numbers like this:
Red Line- 1\ Alewife-Ashmont/ 2\ Alewife-Braintree/ M\ Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley line
Blue Line- 3
Orange Line- 4
Silver Line Bus- 5
CHICAGO:
For years this system used the AB skip-stop system. Letters would be useless so I would assign numbers to the routes as follows:
Red Line\ 1-Howard/Dan Ryan
Blue Line\ 2A- O'Hare/Forest Park, 2B- O'hare/54-Cermak
Green Line\ 3A- Harlem/63-Ashland, 3B- Harlem/E 63-Cottage Grove
[Note: on the Blue and Green Lines, one branch had all A stations, and the other branch had all B stations]
Brown Line\ 4- Loop-Kimball
Orange Line\ 5- Loop-Midway
Purple Line\ 6- Linden-Howard, 6X- Linden-Loop Express
Yellow Line\ 7- Skokie Swift
PHILADELPHIA:
Since SEPTA uses route numbers on the Subway Surface Lines [10,11,13,34,36], and the suburban trolley lines [100-Norristown, 101-Media, 102-Sharon Hill], a question arises on what to use on the Broad St and Market Frankford Lines. SEPTA uses the R designators on the Regional Rail lines {R1 thru R7}, and a while ago they thought to use the M designators for the Subways (Broad St and Market Frankford Lines), my idea is to use B for Broad St, and M for Market St.
Example: B1 local, B2 Express, B3 Ridge Av.
On the Market-Frankford line, use the letter M , and for rush hours use MA and MB for the AB skip-stop service durinjg Rush hours.
[An historical note-during the PRT days, when they introduced the use of numbers to identify trolley routes, the number 1 was reserved for the Market St Elevated. That designator was not used until the late 80`s when SEPTA used it to redesignate the Blvd. Ltd bus as route 1. The reason was that the route ran mostly on US 1 throughout the city.]
SAN FRANCISCO:
What a perfect blending of two different systems indentifiers. BART would use A thru E, and SF Muni would use F to N. here's the BART designators:
A-Richmond/Daly City
B-Fremont/Daly City
c-Richmond/Fremont
D-Pittsburg/Colma(Millbrae)
E-Dublin/Colma(Millbrae)
WASHINGTON, DC:
I would assign designators according to the order of each lines' initial opening :
Red Line - A
Blue Line - B
Orange Line - C
Yellow Line - D
Green Line - E
Do you know of any other city that could use the NYC type of designators [like Toronto, Dallas, Portland, Vancouver, etc], post your suggestions on this board.
Thank you for your time,
Mark De Loatch
Mdlbigcat@comcast.net
Is there anyway I can move this sucker to the SUBTALK board without re-writing the post all over?
Why don't you copy & paste the subject matter of your post. Just re-write the title over on the Sub-Talk board and paste the rest in.
Chuck Greene
Yesterday morning, I saw Orion 125 with YUK stickers coming out of the BB Tunnel. Thought this was in storage. Anyway, it seemed to not have any EZPASS and it was stuck in the toll lane with like 3 cops asking for drivers license,etc.
IS this one going back to Yukon??
Also - why does the TA remove the EZ Pass from Buses that can and still are used in service. I thought all buses would have the EZPASS, but what I see is that only buses in depots that go interborough have it. Anyone clarify????
the bus which was involved in a fatal accident on staten island at least 5 years ago has been mainly out of service since. it was last listed as being at mjq depot where i dont know if it ever saw service.
Didn't some NJ buses recieve the new Voith 12 speed tranny? Why would a bus need a 12 speed transmission in the first place?
No, there is no Voith Transmissions in the NJ Transit fleet! HOWEVER, there is a 10-Speed ZF Astronic Transmission being tested in 2001 MCI D4000 Cruiser #7618 out of South Jersey.
NJT was looking at a alternative to the Allison B500R WTEC Transmission which they are not pleased with at all.
First hand experience, I know why!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
hmm how does that tranny handle any way the zf 10 speeds and is the bus always at high rpm,.
Whats wrong with the B500?
Our Neoplan Low-Floors in Pittsburgh have had tons of problems with the Allison B500R tranny. Mainly transmission overheats indicated by a horribly annoying buzzer and a "Transmission Oil Temp" light which can drag the bus down to a crawl.
A few of the Neo's have been through four or five driveshafts already (they are 1999 model year) and one of the Ross division ones had the tranny fall out of it on the road.
Many of these trannys have become out of sync. Some have a real nasty downshift from second into first, some hold first gear too long which creates a "sticking" sensation.
Our Classics have the B400R... It seems like rather than improving the occasional problems this tranny has, Allison just decided to make all the existing B400R problems 10X worse and call it the B500R!
On a side note, our Flxibles that have the Voith 3-speeds are a pain. Many times these Voith trannys won't go into gear and these Voith trannys have absolutely no reverse power whatsoever. One time I had one of these buses and we got detoured on route. Well, the operator misinterpreted the detour and ended up taking the bus down this extremely steep hill. The Flx (as it sits low to begin with) bottomed out to the point where we could no longer go forward, just deeper into the road. When she put it into Reverse, the bus went back a few inches but didn't have enough power to actually move up the hill in Reverse. To make a long story short, PAT maintenance had to come out and literally pull the bus up the hill. Had we had a Classic or an Orion, we probably wouldn't have bottomed out, but if we did, we atleast could have backed up enough to reapproach the turn. Needless to say, I'm not a big Voith fan.
allision trannys suck when it comes duoble taping the padel in 1st gear whoever here drive a bus with a b-400 can agree with me. It seems it that the gears slip with you double tip the padel. I reminder seeing one of speta nabis have tranny problems so bad it sound like a voith tranny.
Our Nova LFS busses have the B500 transmission... and that's actually probably the only thing on that bus that I can think of that has never really been a problem. (Everything else of course has fallen apart)
The only thing that irks me is how you have to follow a certain sequence in order to get the bus into gear... and even then it gives some drivers problems. But then again, I think that might have to do with NovaBUS quality. :) You're supposed to have your foot on the brake to get it into gear... but sometimes that's not enough... gotta floor the brake pedal... *shrug*
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
oh what happen if you don't place the brake down to place it in gear
Ummm, it won't go into gear!
You're supposed to have your foot on the brake to get it into gear... but sometimes that's not enough... gotta floor the brake pedal...
That's a safety feature so that the bus doesn't accidentally get put into gear before an operator is prepared to operate it. In fact, the PAT Neo Low Floors require you to fully depress the brake pedal to get the pin to release as well.
I've also been told, the new Gillig coaches are being spec'd so that you must fully depress the brake pedal after using the rear doors to get the interlock to release. Too many instances of operators getting out of the seat without setting the pin to try to get stuck back doors to close. As we all know, once they get the doors to close, the bus starts to move and whoops... no operator in the seat!
The MCI D4000s we have, has a similar feature.
In order to place the bus in Drive OR Reverse, the Service Brake pedal must be depressed fully to the floor and the D or R button must be pressed twice.
For the emergency brake, if you release the brake, you must depress the Service brake fully for a Full Release.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
The PAT Neo LF coaches also won't go into gear unless the Fast/High Idle switch is in the 'OFF' position. If you try putting it into gear with the switch in the 'ON' position, the number 5 comes up on the display and continually flashes. I'm assuming this is a safety feature as well. None of the other buses in the fleet have this feature. Needless to say, when they were brand-new, this generated many "My bus won't go into gear..." calls.
I am a bus driver in the UK and have driven a number of Leyland Olympian double-deckers fitted with Voith 3-speed transmission. These vehicles were delivered in 1983 and have been fitted with Voiths all their lifes. These too suffer from badly lacking any 'go' when attempting to reverse. I think these vehicles were fitted with Voith transmissions when new as a lot of problems were being experienced with the more common Leyland 'Hydracyclic' transmission, which was basically a semi-automatic gearbox with an automatic control unit fitted. These have always been very unreliable, suffering from slipping gears and failure to engage a gear. Gearshift quality is extremely variable; one thing I will say for the Voiths I have encountered, is that they are without exception smooth!
Its a jerky, delayed P O S Tranny!
Trevor
new buses at gleason. i heard yesterday that the new orions will be brought in sometime in early spring. we`ll have to see if it really happens.
Orion VII CNGs...and they're due to start coming in this week.
David
Really? I hope they come, I don't think I can take these 4600's/4700's any longer.
I ride the 43 and the 61 out of Gleason daily, and I have never been on a 4700 series bus. An occasional 4600 (4650?) and plenty of 84, 85, and 8600s. Are you sure there are 4700s at Gleason? I get them (out of I think Fresh Pond,) on the 48, the Q54 and 59, and maybe even the 24, though the 24 is like the Bklyn feature line for soft seat 4800s.
I'm sorry, what I meant by that post was the buses I live around(and suffer with). The 4600's/4700's in Fresh Pond Depot, I wasn't trying to describe the buses of Jackie Gleason Depot.
The 4700s were at Gleason, they were hand-me downs from UP (through 4722, I remember them in Bay Ridge near my former high school on the B1 (UP) and B9 (JG), but they went to FP about 4 years ago.
Try about 2 1/2
The 4700s were at Gleason, they were hand-me downs from UP (through 4722, I remember them in Bay Ridge near my former high school on the B1 (UP) and B9 (JG), but they went to FP about 4 years ago.
hopefully they will FINALLY start shipping the 8500's to Fresh Pond and Ulmer Park. We will wait and see.
Yeah, I can't wait to see the 8500's. The 8400's should go back to FLA, because they wouldn't look right with FP or UP.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Took a trip up to Warwick NY this weekend. On the Thruway approach to the Tappan Zee there were 2 RTS' heading in the opposite direction towards the city. Didn't notice any numbering.
Any idea where they came from and why?
I got no idea but this is nothing new as I've seen 4 MTA RTS buses up in Westchester County every time I've gone up there.And all of them have been 1999-2001 NovaBus RTS's so as to why those were up there is up for grabs.
I know that NovaBus stopped building buses at their plant near Albany, but I wonder if they still perform warranty repairs up there. That's the only thing I can think of...
There is some kind of maintenance facility in Tarrytown that does work on the newer RTS's. I'm not sure who runs it but at 126th Street Depot, 5000 series and 9000 series RTS's are sent up there quite often.
That is/was NovaBUS's Tarrytown maintenance facility, you can see it while leaving NB from the Tarrytown Metro-North station.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Well, while we're at it, what model offers the best ride quality?
Dina, MCI, Orion, Neoplan, NABI?
1.) MCI's
2.) Flixible Metro's
3.) Neoplan AN460 (depending on which axle you're riding on)
4.) Orion V
5.) Orion I
In my opinion:
1 - The New Flyer Viking D45S ITV
2 - The MCI D & J series
3 - Tie - The MCI/GMC Classics and the New Flyer D40 Low Floor.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Give Me an 1973 51 Passenger Am General. If Not Available either
Gm RTS-3 Or TMC RTS-4
Just to make a little note here, "Best" is always a subjective term. Everybody's , every TAs' experience could be totally different. So, I would encourage you to go all over the US and Canada to ride them. Ride each model for a few times from different transits and years. Hear what your hear, see what you see and experience what you experience. Don't be shortsighted and biased either by me or someone else.
As you have seen in previous post and my screen name, my favorite bus is Gillig Phantom.
Then comes with Flxible Metro and NABI 416.
Stephen
I'd have to go with the NFI D40LF.
Today caught #4860 on the B1-SLOOOOWW. The follower bus passed us becasue the speed of our bus couldnt get it to move more than maybe 10 miles a hour. Saw parked out of service #7511,#7514,#4763 and #4784. Hopefully those new buses at Gleason will arrive soon to help Ulmer Park out.
B1-#4860-TMCRTS
B64-#9320-NOVABUS
Bus #4860 was on B6 early this morning also #7514, #4763 & #4784 was on B6 too. BTW the only Soft Seat bus i saw was #9294 on B6
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
Are you sure it was bus 9294? Is that bus not in Queens Village Depot? And isn't 7514 in storage at UP?
My Mistaken it not #9294 it #9296. That was a swing bus standing on B82 bus stop & #7514 did went out on B6 & came back 2 hours later park right across the Depot. I been busy writing down Run #, Bus #, Rel #, Arrive Time for 7 half hours today standing outside right next to Ulmer Park Depot on B6 bus stop. BTW: there a lot of 4700's, 4800's, 7500's, few 9000's & one soft seat #9296 on B6 line today.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
One thing that WMATA is doing to celebrate its 30th anniversary is to have a celebration at each of their divisions, starting this month at Bladensburg. I have started to see some Bladensburg buses with the 30th anniversary stickers in the left window, behind the driver's window. Bladensburg's ceremony will be on February 19th for its employees and the same will be done every month for each of their divisions. They still haven't said what or if anything they would do for their riders.
Also of note WMATA will officially rename the Landover Annex to Carmen E. Turner Maintenance and Training Facility sometime during March, which is Women's history month.
Yesterday, I saw 9707 on the T2 with what appeared to be the new sticker. I saw it from a distance but it did not appear to be the old one. Haven't noticed any other buses with them.
I saw the sticker on Northern's Flxible Metro-B 8909.
Wayne
2132 and 2139 from Montgomery have them too. Still haven't had a chance to see one up close.
Richard White, WMATA's chief executive officer, will be on "Sprawl and Crawl", a call-in program on WTOP Radio
(Washington) concerning transportation and urban growth in the Washington, DC area. The show airs at 10 AM ET on
Wednesday, February 12. You may e-mail your questions in advance on the WTOP website, www.wtopnews.com, or you
may call in during the show. Listen to the show on 1500 AM, 820 AM, 107.7 FM, or on www.wtopnews.com, powered by
ConnectLive Webcast Services.
How did that ever turn out, by the way? I wasn't able to listen to it.
You can listen to it online still at wtopnews.com. Just scroll down to where it says "Ask the..." and click on previous programs. Realplayer is required. I am currently listening to it now.
While on Castleton Ave. I saw Orion V #165 sitting at a light with hard seats. All they need to do is install poles, not convert them or turn the seats into mini-soft seats like those found on certain RTS buses? Another question is why don't they turn the seats into carpet seat buses? Do they not have the money?
[Another question is why don't they turn the seats into carpet seat buses?]
AFAIK a hard-back seat can't be "turned into" a cloth-covered seat. Presumably, somebody at Transit chose to reuse some existing hard seats from other buses (or from inventory) rather than purchasing brand-new cloth seats for an almost-10-year-old bus.
In a move that took me completely by surprise and one that will really make DaRidgewoodBusBuff's blood boil, the Dept Of Buses decided to send Fresh Pond depot 10 buses today from other depots consisting of Kingsbridge, Quill and Manhattanville. The 10 buses that arrived are as follows: (better hang onto your hats!)
3902
3951
4367
4379
4380
4382
4390
4552
4832
4833
All 10 buses arrived with fareboxes still in them and were immediately sent to the maintainence service to be prepped for service. They should start seeing service tommorrow 2/12. I was told however that two of them are slated to be scrapped in the near future. I wasn't told which ones but I would assume probably the 3900's. Also on a side note, Fresh Pond scrapped 3921 today for reasons I do not know of.
On a positive note, I checked out both the 4800's that came in they seem to be in very good condition. The operators who drove them reported them to be in great shape also. I don't know about the others but since the 3900's originally came from Queens, they should be in decent shape also. I'll keep you guys posted on whatever else comes and goes.
BIG AL
OUCH!
Oooooo that hurts. Sorry about that Ridgewood. Oh man, that's about as bad as driving a Gillig!
My condolences, However I can confirm that 4552 and the 4800s are great buses!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Fresh Pond seems to be the place where buses come before they die? Fresh Pond is doom to get new buses. This depot will always get some other depot garabage. I've lost hope in FP every getting NEW! NEW! buses.
For once, I must completely agree with what you said. Anything old that other depots don't want(using the word need is an insult) will go to Fresh Pond to die. We always get dumped with reject. The only thing old that I wouldn't mind coming here is the 4145, the best old FP original.
Since I'm "representing" Flatbush depot, we got hit with a lot of GM's and early TMC'S but man, the 1987/1988 TMC's is the ROCK of the FP fleet and now you got buses like 3902 and 3951, and UP got it very bad too. The buses take a good minute to go over 25mph and its frustrating, for those in areas with none or few of these clunkers[some are good I admit] you don't know what we go through here in Brooklyn man.
FB-4300-4302,4436,4437,4439-4446,4450,4452,4458,4462,4464,4468,4469
4600-4602,4604-4606,4614,4616,4618-4628,4654-4657
FP-4367,4368,4552,4658-4661,4663-4674,4676-4684,4686,4688,4693-4741,4743-4751,4832,4833,4889-4891
UP-4497,4742,4753-4769,4771-4773,4775-4792[with gaps],4854-4871,4874
JG-4643-4651
ENY-4358,4360,4408-4411,4413,4414,4416-4420,4422-4425,4427,4428,4430,4431,4433,4482,4629-4642,4872
See all the junk we got from other depots and ARE here to die in Brooklyn! More than half of these buses DID NOT start their careers in Brooklyn.
I remember when FB had 3503,3562,3638,4019,4020 and some 4000's from JG in Flatbush a few years ago but the 4000's we're pretty good actually.
I was just at Fresh Pond just before, and was talking to Big Al. I saw the 4380(with a the damn black thing in the back) on the B20, the 4379 not in service and 4832 on the Q58. And today on the Q58 there were A LOT of pre-1990 buses which is very rare since its a Nova-dominated route. I will post FP's fleet in my next post.
That's good, each Brooklyn Depot has a bustalker representing it.
Fresh Pond- DaRidgewoodBusBuff(me), Bill from Maspeth
Ulmer Park- Caine824
Flatbush- Flatbush41(you)
East New York- ENY Nova #5205
Jackie Gleason- AcelaExpress
We all have to suffer with crap that the Bronx dumps on us.
While I am representing Flatbush depot, the B8 [my home route] is JG so you could say I have a little for JG too HOWEVER, I care for all the Brooklyn depots.
Despite my handle,I guess you can pretty much say I'm representing Manhattanville and Amsterdam Depots since the bus routes near where I live,M2,M3,M4,M5,M100,M101,Bx6...are from those 2 depots.The M4,5 and the Bx6 are the closest one's to me but I can pretty much walk to the M2,3,100,101 if I ever wanted to especially during the spring and summer time.
Just grin and bear it guys. Here in SE Queens, it is not uncommon to see a 1986 RTS running well into the night. At 10pm last night I saw, not one but TWO of these buses running--4568 on the Q5Merrick, and 4571 on the Q85. The '86 and the three ex-KB 4200's (4214-4215 and 4217) are inexplicably sent out on weekends, too. Jamaica Depot not only has the most 1986 RTS's in the city with 34, but it has the most GMC buses in the city with 37. The difference between me and you is, I actually like the "45-King Specials" as I call JAM's 4500's. I think the 6V-92 engine is a welcome sound in the hood.
Mark
The 4400's in Flatbush depot aren't so bad but in ENY, its a different story and don't get me to the early TMC's in Brooklyn, man half of them SUCK. But the frustrating thing is that most of the RTS hand me downs that comes to Brooklyn end their careers here and we're hit with the old clunkers. We're basically the "retirement center" of old RTS's in Brooklyn.
Yes, even though I like New Flyers, they just don't have that "I belong in the hood" look to them like the RTS and New Looks did, and the Flxibles to a lesser extent. I guess they need to build their street cred.
Those 4500s, however, did arrive in JAM new. The credit for those has to go to the maintenance staff. As for the 42xx, that sounds like rescuing buses from the brink and breathing new life to them--saw 4215 entering Jamaica today (2/12), didn't catch the route number.
But the thing with the 4500's is that they are originals, and from me, originals will get a lot more respect than hand-downs ever will.
Yeah, your home depot suffered through a 11 year drought of not recieving original buses. Before the 1996 Novas arrived [9140-9185], the LAST set of originals was the 1985 GM's; 4071-4145 I think, which is a awful drought, mostly everthing FP had over the years IS hand me downs, just sad! Shows how FP had it BAD.
What are the odds of FP being able to get good HP buses (i.e., either 9606-18, to make it 50 1998 buses, or 5190-5204) when it closes, or will they dump the rest of the 1986s on FP. It seems a little ludicrous that ENY has 125 buses from one purchase (80 its own, and 45 from KB, topped only by 185 Orion Vs in CAS in 2000 and 190 NF buses in JG (albeit all CNG). BTW, did 5205-5229 ever see service in Gleason, as the 523x and 524x did?
Only 5230-5249 was in JG for a while, 5205-5229 remained at KB until their 2001 Artics [5403-5505?] arrived. Ludicrous, its a BLESSING for you at ENY and Brooklyn, Fresh Pond would want to have that roster of 125 1998/1999 Novas right now. It would be nice if the DOB assigned 9696-9618 whenever HP is scheduled to close but with the luck of Fresh Pond over the years with hand me downs they'll probably get hit with the 1986 GM's [maybe the 1991 TMC's] and >GASP< 3469 if its still around!
ENY COULD of got the 8800's [not bad] and/or most of the 1985 & 1986 GM's and 1987 TMC's.
I could not agree with you more! and I like that term "The 45 kings!" Yes brother!
Peace!
DaShawn
I happen to like the 4000's TMS better then the NOVA softseater UP runs on the B3. The 4000 series has always been my favorite RTS series.
Just no more 3900's . I can't take them.
The 1985 RTSs, as built, were 3800-4218 (3800-3899 express, 3900-4218 local). Therefore, the 3900s and the 4000s are from the same order.
David
I could not agree with you more! and I like that term "The 45 kings!" Yes brother!
Peace!
DaShawn
and in FP, the 1985 buses (other posts will list those buses)!
I rode 4614 on the B47 last week. The bus went out of service at Flatlands Ave after the bus operator had to keep restarting the bus. 9423 was waiting to take us to Kings Plaza.
Da Beastmaster
They shouldn't put disgusting old RTS's on my fave route!Put the 5000's,7000's,and 9000's on that route and nothing else!A good route deserves good buses,not a cheap piece of crap like 4614.Scrap that bus! Sink it with the Redbird's even!
Actually, the B47 gets mostly good buses; whenever I pass by and see the 47, they mostly have the 8400's, 9300's and 9400's. Now ride the B41 or the B46, you'll see that the GM's & early TMC's are prevalent on those routes.
Aaaaah, a cornicopia of treasures fit for a king that's all I see! Hopefully, the news of the Onions arriving in the spring will go the same as it did about them arrving in Sept and then Dec. I seriously think there's a severe problem with those buses, but what do I know. I know that you all will be missing those RTS VERY soon though.
Us Brooklynites WILL NOT! RTS2150, BELIEVE me, DaRidgewoodBusBuff, Caine824 and others, if you lived in Brooklyn you'll see our frustration. Ok, maybe I will miss them but we get hit with all the old hand me downs and they usually their lives end here and now 10 more buses will enjoy their limited lives at Fresh Pond.
Oh, I'll see the day when you all will wax poetic about bus 3997 and it's equally sexy brethren. But then, it shall be too late. I too felt like you. I used to hate this one RTS in particular, it was 2147. It sucked. It was boring to me as far as RTS went. Now, it's gone. I miss it. You don't know what you got 'till it's gone.
I do admit I'll miss ranting about them when they go away :-( but right now, I DON'T feel sorry for these shitty buses.
Oh man, that sucks! However, bus #4552 is a great bus! It was good on the M11 flying down 9th Av to the PABT when I took it. Trust me on that. That bus should get some good workouts on the Q58 crossing over the GCP on the LIE!
Ray
I'm sure that's going to be the bus that gets scrapped. Just like the good guys get rejected, good buses get scrapped.
Yup you're right, 3669 from ENY is a good example. Had good accel, clean engine, a proper bus that got scrapped. Now 3997 however, that bus is a POS![right Ridgewood ;-)]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
After reading this, I was on the floor on my knees covering my eyes with my hands. It looks like Fresh Pond gets shitted on once again. That piece of crap Kingsbridge can go to hell. Fresh Pond gets rid of 1987 RTS's for what? Older buses like the 1985 & 1986 RTS's? What a f&%$ing joke! Fresh Pond has NEVER seen a 1986 RTS, and I was glad, but now we have to suffer with them. I'm an idiot, I've should've never wished for Fresh Pond to get more buses. Fresh Pond never gets anything newer than 1987. The drought still goes on.....
Anyway Big Al, I want to meet you this afternoon at 5:00 P.M. so I can see these buses for myself. I will wait by the ramp again.
Q5Merrick, if you are reading this(I'm trying real hard to talk in a calm tone), can you tell me what changes in Manhattan led to this? I will appreciate any info.
He, He, He
Wayne
(Grew up in KB territory)
Oh man, I feel so sorry for you Ridgewood; dry those tears ;-). All jokes aside, now people see why us Brooklynites rant about getting old crappy hand me downs. Wow, first time I ever heard of a 1986 GM going to Fresh Pond. Welcome them Ridgewood, I see and ride them on the B41 every day but they ain't so bad. They could of dumped them at UP. If its not dumped at FP, its UP and if its not UP, its FB and so on :-\.
There is only one thing that that can happen that's worst than this. If any of my 9100's ever gets taken away, all hell will break loose.
This move comes as news to me--bad news. I don't get it either and I work for the TA. As I am sure someone has answered before, the arrival of artics in Manhattan has obviously forced out older buses from Quill Depot. As for KB, I have not a clue as to why those life-long Bronx buses were moved to FP. Yes, the fleet age (the highest in the city, by far...I mean, it's not even close) just went up yet again.
Mark
Oh man, I just wish FP would just get treated good, just once. But it seems it will probably never happen. :(
cheer up Daridgewood one of these day someone will come out with a buses for Fresh pond that is brand new. Not from another depot.
ulmer park this week got 3 buses from Yukon. They came in looking like scrap and were put on the road right away. The other two buses were 3970 or something.
Just great, now Ulmer Park has to suffer with crappy hand-downs. I swear, Brooklyn gets no mercy. We are the dumping ground for the city's oldest buses. Caine824, I really think we are unfairly treated. Manhattan and the Bx don't deseve to get treated so good. I hope one day, they will get crap thrown at them.
Forget it Ridgewood as long as they keep getting Artics, we will continue to get hand me downs; especially the old clunkers. We are the "retirement center" of the old RTS's. Damn, now Caine824 has to suffer with some 3900's in UP. Oh Ridgewood, the 4700's are getting the new license plates so that means they will probably be going NOWHERE! The DOB has been transferring nasty & old buses from the Manhattan & Bronx depots to Brooklyn a LONG time and you guys in Queens though you had it bad; sheesh! What's next for Brooklyn :-\...........
Oh give me a break. Cry me a river as Justin Timberlake would say. You know, just because those buses don't have some shiny new pipes sticking out of the back, doesn't mean they won't run circles around all that toher "new" shit the TA has. Did you not just hear Big Al say that the RTS has the best MDBF in the fleet, something I figured a long time ago. Even in their old age and decrepid state those buses are putting in work. They've been run into the ground, he'll they've been run into freakin' China! Perhaps I would understand if you had some old Orions making the rounds, but those RTS buses are treasures. Whether they are the 22 yeard old remans or the 16 year olds you complain about, they are doing a damn good job where numerous others failed. The Grummans couldn't even last in NYC when brand new, but you have buses that were running their entire lives on the mean streets of NYC.
If anything, you should be happy to ride these old horses on their last trips. You're riding history my friend. They've outlived alot of their drivers and passengers and now they themselves are in the twilight of their careers. So let them ply the streets of Brooklyn. It's almost over for them. Not every one can have brand new shiny boxes. But oh, you will wax poetic someday. The good old days you'll call them. When Brooklyn was a haven for the old school. When you could hear a 6v92TA running by your house or school or stoop while you're kissing your girl. You'll only be able to remember someday. Enjoy while you can, if you're really a busfan.
We never said we hated all old buses. Hell, I wish 4135, or 4145 would get sent back to Fresh Pond, I would love to have my lasts trips on these buses. It's just that us Brooklyn bustalkers here will not miss the many hand-downs that got dumped here where some other depot got to enjoy them they were new.
Listen, I respect the RTS for lasting a long time, but Brooklyn gets them in crappy condition. If Brooklyn should have many old buses, then it should be what we started out with(mainly 4000's-4100's), not buses coming from Manhattan and the Bx that are over 16 years old. Look at 4014, it stood at ENY its entire life,I don't have anything against it being an old bus. ENY got to enjoy it when it was new, so it's fair. It's just us Brooklyn bustalkers are so sick of getting what Manhattan and the Bx doesn't want. Most of us certainly won't miss these hand-downs them when they are gone. As for Fresh Pond, I will miss none of the pre-1990 hand-downs they received.
I think it is unfair to say that Brooklyn gets buses from Manhattan because "WE" don't want them. You probably have no idea how many times MaBSTOA and TA (126th ST) has gotten brand new buses and then sent to the other boroughs in exchange for old buses. Perfect example, Hudson Pier depot in 1992 to 1993 was basically an all new bus depot. We had 8220-8259 and 8462-8517. We only had like maybe 5 "old" buses. Then in like mid 1993 in to 1994 we got a shit load of 34xx, 35xx, 36xx, 37xx, buses from Manhattanville, Jamaica, Queens Village, ENY, you name it we got it! But I was really not mad because we really had a mixture of old school and new school equipment at the time. Now I will not lie, those 35 and 36 and 37xx's we not in good shape and the majority had kept their respective depot stickers for at least 3 months before they got Hudson Pier stickers. But then the best thing happened. MAINTAINANCE! Excellent, make a bus haul ass with people in the front step well to the last seat in the back of the bus maintainance. So for a minute I felt like you, damn we got the worst buses in the system, and now I miss the 4135, 4145, 4155, 416x's. They are still great buses, but a great bus can become a crapy bus with lack of proper or even decent maintainance!
So there is a method to somebodies madness in DOB when FP gets these old POS buses. I personally don't think it's a good idea either, but enjoy these classic buses while you can, because in my opinion these new buses are really not great at all, there are a couple that I might get happy about, but in general it is nothin to write home about, compared to the mid 80's and even the late 70's. Those were buses, and the RTS, The Classic/Fishbowl and the 870/METRO/New Look were fine examples of what buses were and should still be.
P.S.
I wish Brooklyn division better days for equipment!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D#1975 (40102-4D)
Isn't the 4014 still running after 18 years in ENY?
Yes, it's in ENY as we speak.
Listen, I LIKE the older buses when they struggle to gain speed and all the other stuff but the nature of the hand me down RTS's in Brooklyn over the years is just GRAPHIC! I LOVE the RTS don't get me wrong, they're second right behind my favorite buses, the GM New Looks [especially when they we're Blitzed] but its very frustrating; myself and the other Brooklynites are telling you its much WORSE than you will imagine; at first it was "good" but now I really can't stand it. We receive JUNK that are already near the brink of going kaput, 3902 for example didn't even get to do its debut in Brooklyn b/c the engine was SHOT![courtesy of Big Al].
In Flatbush depot, there's quite a few 4400's and 4600's [these are the buses with 6v92's] and in fact I LOOK FORWARD to riding them sometimes on the B41 LTD [of course I want a 5000's as well 8-)] but if you're riding a early TMC in Ulmer Park, you're chances are greater of getting one; rode one yesterday, 4772 on the B6 LTD and it was a GOOD BUS. If you we're only living here in Brooklyn I BET YOU would be the same way we all are right now HOWEVER I'm soaking it all in & I'm riding as much of the older buses as I can b/c soon we will have nothing to rant about the 4300's-4800's and the remaining 1984/1985 GM's.
FP at least has 108 new local Novas in their garage. UP only has 34 good local buses (9077-9110). The express coaches are unfit for some of their routes (B1 and B6 come to mind, any riders of that line know why), and now they dump some RTS-04s in brooklyn. And all this time, I thought YUK was the dumping ground, simply because it was closest to Nimco, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
FP has 103 Novas, not 108.
These are:
9140-9185(46)- The best thing we have
9569-9605(37)
5055-5074(20)- Only 20 buses, that # is a joke.
thanks for the info
Also, the 4071-4151 were FP originals. I thought most of them were good, but there were a few that hated. 4074, that bus was pathetic, and I certainly won't miss it. 4108, this bus was almost as bad as those 4200's, it was slow, it shakes like crazy, it polluted black smoke all over the place, and it looked nasty on the inside, that bus deserved to die.
Nope only the B6 doesn't get the soft seaters; rode a RTS softseater just a week ago on the B1 but they only get a few while the 3,4 and 36 seem to get a majority of them. Now UP lost a LOT of good buses in time; 5075-5099,8340-8351,9031,9035,9040,9048,9057-9060,9062,9067,9068,9074-9076. Now 34 regular Novas [81 Novas total including the RTS suburbans, still a pretty small number COMBINED] in one depot is a paltry number.
i just saw #3962 on the B36 as i was comning home this morning(spend the last 2 days in long island and had the day off-geez, if this is the best Ulmer Park can do,were screwed.
Anyone knows what buses # were transferred??
I think the buses were 3962 3969 and 3970.
Oh boy! LOL!
#3970 B1
3968 can't be one of those transferred to UP. 3968 was sold and is now at Fort Worth Texas TA.
BTW, Mark Holmes, you have 3968 listed at both Ft. Worth and at RIPTA on TransiTalk's NYC Bus roster page.
Thanks, bus 3968 was sold to RIPTA. The bus thats at UP is 3969.
Mark
Oh God, I remember riding that bus on the Q46, it was slow. I just hope UP doesn't use it on the B6 Limited @_@.
Tell me about 3969, prior to being moved to what I thought was death in YUK, on that route (and 3957-3960, 3949, 3901, 3902,and 3909). The only ones appearing any good were 3965 and 1984 bus 3562.
3965's interior is shot! Seats are torn very badly!
Otherwise the bus is not too bad. 3562 was so so.
3969 was in QV. I rode this bus quite a few times while it was there.
#3969 Q46
Actually 3969 was on the B6 Friday afternoon. Saw it on Flatlands Ave. BTW it was not a Limited.
Peace,
Kevin
Did #4552 came from Hudson Pier Depot?? will i saw that bus inside the Depot this past weekend @ Hudson Pier Depot. Also i saw #3902 on Bx11 this past weekend near my house.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT TCO/OP
Yes, 4552 did come in from Hudson Pier. I forgot to include that depot in my listing on the original thread. I never saw a bus move before where the buses came in from so many depots. 4552 however seemed to be in ok shape however I noticed the dashboard lights were not working. Everything else seemed OK. Also, 4832 was sporting a nice wrap on the back of her.
BIG AL
Oh Man! Why does Fresh Pond always get the crappy buses??
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Because its routes travel the shortest distance over the course of the day, so it makes sense that FP gets the oldest buses. Same reason the Q and B swapped fleets. The B used to run the slants and the Q had the brand new R68As, but then someone at the TA realized it made no sense to run the older slants 24/7 while their newest cars were in CIY all weekend and all night.
That's what I keep wondering, except I'm the one who has to suffer with them. :(
If it will make anyone feel better, Fresh Pond decided to scrap 3902 today. The bus was smoking so bad, the depot felt it couldn't be put into service. So you guys can scratch that one. I don't think 3951 entered service today either but most of the others were on the road, with the F.P. logos on them already.
BIG AL
Good, that makes it one less 3-9 to worry about. I believe Fresh Pond now has 246 buses.
As of 2/13/03
Number of Buses: 242
1985 RTS: 3918, 3951, 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997. (6)
1986 RTS: 4367, 4379, 4380, 4382, 4390, 4552. (6)
1987 RTS: 4658-4660, 4663-4669, 4671-4674, 4676-4684, 4686-4688, 4693-4696, 4698-4734, 4736-4741, 4743-4750, 4832-4833, 4884,4890-4891.(86) 1990 RTS: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166-8171. (41)
1996 RTS: 9140-9185. (46)
1998 RTS: 9569-9605. (37)
1999 RTS: 5055-5074. (20)
Out of Service: SCRAP—3902, 3919, 3921, 4697, 4880, 4881
REPOWERED: 8000-8001, 8005-8006, 8012, 8015-8017, 8131-8132, 8135-8136, 8139, 8141, 8152, 8155, 8157, 8160, 8166, 8168-8171.
Why in hell would the DOB send a garage a bus (the 3902) that is not operable?
Do they have better mechanics or something? There must be some kind of thinking behind these moves?
Let's face it, they hate Fresh Pond., simple as that.
they do it by age. For expample,with Ulmer Park, becasue they have a bulk of the 1996 NOvaBus and the 2000-2002 MCI models, they feel Umer park doesnt need buses. But they do, only because the NOVABUS fleet is primarly express coaches on local routes. If the seats were all hard models, wouldnt be so bad.(i'd still bitch, but less to complain about).
Fresh Pond's buses travel the shortest distances per day than any other depot in the city to keep a long story short. That's why they get hit with the oldest buses. To be honest with you, I looked at a few more of the 10 buses that were transferred in and for the most part, they seem to be in better condition than most of the 46-4700 buses already at F.P., save 3902, which never entered service but was scrapped instead because of heavy smoke from the engine.
BIG AL
I remember that bus when it was at QV. It left QV for Crosstown Storage for perhaps was going to be scrapped but was sitting in storage for about 2 years, came back to QV along with 3950, went over to KB and now arrived in FP as scrap...again.
And in the midst of things-it MAY have made a brief run at Yukon?
Now this bus has a history-lol!
RIP 3902!
I assume 3951 will be scrapped as well. I rode that bus quite a few times and this bus was extremely slow and loud.
#3951 Q46
3902 never made it to yukon. yukon has 3901,3949,3957 and 3972. the three buses sent to ulmer park were from yukon. yukon also has 4129 and 4342. 3960 may also be there.
DOes anyone know what happened to MTA city bus 5024? I just saw it on McGUiness blvd. in Greenpoint. It's a virtually brand new bus, but something went dreadfully wrong. All the tags and logos had been scrapped off. The only # was on the back. Even the blue stripe looked like it had been scraped. The front doors were black, and the back doors looked like they were faked, or fabricted to fill the hole left when the real doors had been taken off. Does anyone know what the deal is with this bus, and where it might have been going?
Oh, it's probably getting repainted at the Crosstown paint shop, it IS around there. Nothing went dreadfully wrong, just geting a new fresh coat of paint that's all [unless its something else].
Dont worry, nothing is wrong with it. It was stripped of its paint only, and was headed to Crosstown shop on Box street at the end of McGuinness Blvd. It will get a fresh coat of paint on it. It will come out looking sharp in about a week.
but the interior will be still filthy with dust and soot. paint the outside and leave the inside like crap.
STORY HERE
She probably has a bright future at NYCTA. 8-/
Peace,
ANDEE
The Star Ledger has a more detailed story about the indictment.
I can honestly say that I'm stunned that this went down. I've dealt with this exec on a somewhat infrequent basis over the past few years regarding NJT Bus Operations and requests for certain materials and have had no problems dealing with her (I should point out that it's a heck of a lot easier dealing with NJT management than with SEPTA; this may seem odd to a lot of people reading this message, but it's based on personal experience).
Regardless of the outcome of this case, I think a lot of people have to admit that NJT Bus Operations have improved dramatically over the past 10 years, notwithstanding the problems with the second batch of Novas and the tranny problems on the MCI D-series cruisers, not to mention the Trenton-Camden LRT boondoggle (which falls under her office, I might add).
The Southwest Transit and Regional Transportation Agency in Avondale, Arizona (A member Agency Of Valley Metro) currently Funding Valley Metro Bus Route #131 (Line Bus Operators and buses provided by Forsythe Tempe) is planning to take all of the 2003 operation funds and Rent/Borrow 3 Cars and Locomotive from Southern California Metrolink to operate Demonstration Commuter service On the Union Pacific (Former Southern Pacific) Phoenix West Line Bewtween The Phoenix Goodyear Airport (Litchfield Jct) and Phoenix Union Station In Downtown Phoenix. making additional stops at Cashion & Tollson. The plan if it works is to run rushhours both directions with additional service west to Buckeye and the Palo Verde NGS 50 Miles west of Phoenix. Currently the #131 operates bus service Bewtween Litchfield Park & Desert Sky Mall In Phoenix serving the Cities of Litchfield Park, Avondale, Goodyear, Cashion, Tollson and West Phoenix, the line operates approx every 90 to 120 minutes from 530am to 730 pm monday thru friday. #131 is the only local service route serving these cities. I think the money is best spent on Increacing headways to 30min service on this line and/or extending Existing bus routes West Including #13 Buckeye Road, #3 Van Buren Street, #17 Mcdowell Road, #41 Indian School Road & #50 Camelback Road to Litchfield Road.
Bus Improvments should be funded first before Commuter Rail.
Why do you come to such a conclusion?
Bus service should be the rough equivilant of a big 'Screw You!' from the big-wigs. Small, dirty, noisy vehicles trapped on the same roads that they try to get people off of, they're prone to the fickle whims of the Traffic gods which makes them pretty much useless in any kind of city or sprawled suburb setting. Plus they're invariably diesel, nobody builds Trolleybus systems anymore (was Seattle's BusTunnel the last trolley overhead hung?), and that means immense noise and smell as the durn thing screams away from it's extremely frequent stops.
Now that I've bus-bashed enough, I have to ask, how great a distance are we talking here? I must admit to being a bit hazy on the layout of Phoenix, I know I've been there, but it was a while ago. Commuter rail in the conventional sense (Diesel pulled BiLevels sadly, as most transit Startups do with their "My First Diesel" F59PHIs) should dictate that the line be 45 to 60 or so miles long, with maybe 6 intermediate stops (most likely decided politically). Anything shorter should be either EMU or DMU served closer together stations, or Light Rail. Light Rail should have it's maximum at about 45 or so miles, which is just about an hours trip at the maximum FRA allowed speed.
Aside from the distance traveled, the ridership, especially the income of the ridership, is important. The area where I live is a classic example of this, NJT bus service is just enough to be considered adequate around my house. I could ride the bus into Philly, fortunately I have a car which allows me to drive to PATCO and ride into the city in far less time. The people who need a nearly door to door ride from their house can rely on the Bus system, but pretty much all the bus system is empty, compared to PATCO which is crush loaded for about an hour every night, during which it does run with 5 minute headways.
Simply saying that Bus travel should be advanced ahead of rail travel is a guaranteed way to end up with a complete transit mess. Whats needed is a definite balance between the two, with buses providing Door to train station, or short door to door service, while trains provide the medium and longer distance services. In this role trains are particularly adept because they are much harder to interupt, if the track is managed properly tens of thousands of people can be moved in moments with a relatively small number of operators.
Of course busses are pretty much obviated by Light Rail advances. The two do the same job, but the Light Rail system allows for the use of extended underground tunnels running into the hearts of cities. Had it not been for GM and the National City Lines, there is a very good chance that most, if not all the once expansive trolley network would still be intact and available for modernized street cars, like the cities in Europe. It should be a light rail to heavy rail, as opposed to large van (bus) to rail connection.
Of course the best solution would be to go from Door to Door without the traffic, and without any transfers. So far the only two systems that I can think of that do this are Bus Rapid Transit (HA!), and the Karlruhe's GT8-100D/2S-M cars. The latter is a Light Rail car that can operate both on the 750VDC trolley system and Deutsch Bahn's 11.5KVAC mainline, AND it can do 100kph! The potential of that system is that it can offer service both to the outlier areas, and the city in both an innercity transit, as well as a suburban commuter service capacity. Sadly that car flies in the face of all that our great FRA tries to tell us is right with rail travel.
We've let railroads atrophy enough, it about time for true improvements to the rail system in this country.
Commuter rail planned for phoenix is for peak hour travel from the subburbs to Downtown Phoenix and returning. but new industry and commercial business are relocating to the subburbs, but the is very limted and inconveinent bus service to these new job centers.
For all the people who keep notes. That bus is now at Gunhill. It still has maps from Staten Island. So I assume this was from SI.
AMI
I thought it went to Mother Clara Hale; guess it was 468 and 470 only while 469 went to Gun Hill, interesting. 469 came from Yukon.
469 was at MCH. I rode it on the M1 recently. Also I have pics of 467 and 470 on the M1.
#470 M1
Same old same old trip. Caught a NOVABUS express again on the B1. I feel sorry for all of you at FP getting stuck with the hand me downs from Manhattan. For the rest of the week, im commuting via LIRR to work, but will do a LIB trip Fiday via the N21,"7" and hopefully pass by Fresh Pond. Not sure yet. But will post what i do. Here's hoping Ulmer Park gets some buses soon.
B1-#9316-NOVABUS
Rode the B6 today after railfanning the L and I decided to do some Ulmer Park observations on the B6. Well might as well tell y'all about my ride on the 6. I ran to catch 4762, a B6 LTD but the driver wanted to be a dick and not open the door and he was STILL at the bus stop outside of the train station and it was a RED signal. So he left and I had to wait in the cold for the next LTD which came in a few minutes. 4772 came and we're off. This is a GOOD bus nice accel, engine doesn't freeze at 25mph like most of the early TMC's do. We do good speed via Flatlands Av, pass 9099, which was a local bus. So we continue after turning via Ave H and we do good through the "dark section" from Schenectady to Albany Av [if you have a good driver its a good run]. We go smoothly until we get stuck in some traffic on Ave J by the train station then I get off at CI Av, where I will wait for the B68. Takes a few minutes to come and then I take it home.
I noticed that on the 6, the majority of buses is pre 1990; which I wasn't surprised b/c the softseaters almost never run on it. Don't worry, I know that is the norm on the B6 everyday.
Here's the buses I saw on it.
4742,4759,4762,4765,4767,4772,4855,4863,4874,7521,7523,7532,7533,9080,9081,9086,9099,9108
Also, I saw one of the runs from Flatbush depot 8032.
RTS 4772 B6 LTD
Here is Fresh Pond's current fleet(which is pretty pathetic). I think the average age has just risen:
1985 RTS: 3902, 3918, 3951, 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997(BOO!!!) (7)
1986 RTS: 4367, 4379, 4380, 4382, 4390, 4552 (6)
1987 RTS: 4658-4660, 4663-4674, 4676-4684, 4686-4688, 4693-4741, 4743-4751, 4832, 4833, 4884, 4890, 4891 (90)
1990 RTS: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157, 8158, 8160, 8161, 8166-8171 (41)
1996 RTS: 9140-9185 (46)
1998 RTS: 9569-9605 (37)
1999 RTS: 5055-5074 (20)
Big Al, feel free to correct any errors I made.
3921 is still around, isn't it. Also, the debut of 1986 GM's at Fresh Pond......at 17 years old :-\! What a shame; it is pathetic but that was the DOB's decision, can't do nothing about that.
Big Al told me that bus is gone(thank God). To me, it was just another old hand-down which got dumped in Fresh Pond.
The roster looks good except for 3902 which was scrapped. I got wind that another of the 10 buses just transferred in isn't doing so well either but couldn't confirm the exact number. It may be 3951 which I have not seen on the road yet. I'll let you guys know as the information flows.
BIG AL
What happened to all the RTS buses that used to plow those routes - It was a very busy route - Where did most of those coaches wind up after the artics were introduced? As I recall many were on the new side.
Nothing happened to them.They are still at Quill being used on the depot's other routes.
Was this the bus at Hudson Pier - That would loose lighting and power when the doors open? It is a real clunker and SLOWWW
Granted, if Im not mistaken, that bus may have arrived new at HP, but is that bus just being held on until 100 St opens?
I rode that bus and thought it was pretty good. 4165 was the bus that did all the things that you just said. That bus has to go to scrap.
#3469 Q32
i drove that bus at gleason when it was fast as hell. i use to take it on the x27 when there were no coaches available because it was fast. that was back in `91
I had her on Wed,night on the M9 and she moved down Water St.at a pretty good rate of speed.
Told ya! I had that bus on the Q32. It was a good bus. So was 3474.
#3469 Q32
#3474 M2
When does the next pick take effect? I know last one took effect around martin luther jr day. I just need to visit a bus driver I know before he switches jobs, I know his senority but I won't say it here (privacy), he didn't remember when the next pick takes effect.
april
What date does the new one take effect?
What is happening with NYBS?? We are coming up on March so I assume they will continue to operate?
I just saw on the news that a WMATA bus slid off of the road, into a ditch tonight in Fairfax. The bus was 2100, from Royal. There were no passengers on board and noone was hurt (that being the driver). The bus doesn't look like it was damaged badly and the cause seemed to be that it hit a patch of ice and went off of the road.
On top of that there is supposed to be some kind of winter storm to hit the DC area Friday and Saturday which might bring ice and snow.
Drive safely out there.
Wes Samuels
For all of you people who know the maintenance of buses in the NYC garages: Which depot in each borough has the worst buses (defined as noty just having the lowest MBDF, but also factoring in the number of miles traversed daily, and counting more miles traveled as more favorable to depots whose buses travel fewer miles)?
I know the answer to your question, however that's privileged information that shouldn't be put on a public board when it comes to actual numbers for each individual depot. I will say however that the RTS has the best MDBF out of all the different type of buses in the system.
BIG AL
What do bus MDBF look like, on a whole? Like 800 miles MDBF, 8000 Miles MDBF, 15,000 miles MDBF?
Without divulging sensitive info, BIG AL, do you consider the artics reliable, based on MDBF?
I've never worked with the artics since they run mainly in Mabstoa and never looked at the numbers for the depots they work out of. I do know there have been some problems with them. More problems than the RTS's had when they were new. DHF60 could probably answer your question better about them.
BIG AL
Thanks BIG AL!!!
My only knowledge of artic problems has to do with the 4 new one's that we've had at 126 since December. They've had quite a few teething problems. One persistent problem seems to be the fareboxes. I'm not sure if the problem is electrical in nature or if it's because the fareboxes vibrate like crazy when the bus is in motion. The only other problem with artics that I'm familiar with is when I worked the M31 line, which terminates at the same terminal as the M86, I observed that the artics assigned to the M86 seemed to regularly rupture their hydraulic lines and spew fluid all over the street. The buses I observed doing this were all early model artics so it's possible that the problem may have been eliminated in the new ones.
The 1000 series do that ( Spew fluid) alot in the bronx as well. I've never heard of a 5000 series artic doing that yet.
Big Al, Without divulging sensitive information, can you tell us if there is a significant difference between the RTS and the other types of city buses in the fleet (Orions, New Flyer articulated and CNGs)?
Jim D.
Yes, I will say the RTS performs alot better when it comes to the MDBF than the other type of city buses, but that is really no big secret. That's why we call the RTS the work horse of the system.
BIG AL
How about the MCIs????? Without #s, are they better than the RTSs?
That's a funny one.
I don't think you can compare the two especially on the recent numbers, to due to a large number of accidents with the MCI Cruisers, they do see less time on the roads than the RTSs also, they see limited express ONLY service.
A better comparison would be the RTS against the Orion V.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
One Answer.....
WALNUT DEPOT
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Ok Trevor, you know Walnut doesn't count; 100 St is worse [j/k] ;-).
Hehe... Csey Stengel!
I can answer this! Gun Hill!! Their busses are absolute SHIT, are VERY filthy, and the only time they fix a problem is when the bus stalls. Their RTS' seem cleaner than the artics, for some really bizarre reason. I have yet to encounter a Pee-Smelling GH RTS, like I constantly do on their artics, especially in the trailer portion.
Here is the website: http://www.hollandbuscompany.com/bluebird_buses.htm
These actually look pretty nice...are they sold in the US? One of the models (the regular standard floor) reminds me of a Gillig Phantom...check it out.
NY Waterway uses Bluebirds on their shuttles. I see them all the time on 34th Street. Strictly lightweight garbage, glorified school busses.
Peace,
ANDEE
Stonybrook out on long island used to use the Blue Bird Xcel 102 model for campus shuttles
I drove what I think was an Xcel, not sure. I only had it a couple times, it was an oddball in the fleet. They kept an info sheet on board so drivers could get the thing started. I didn't like it for several reasons. First off it had a bunch of poorly labeled switches that were a pain in the ass to figure out (lights, climate control, etc.) . Secondly they had two switches to get the doors open instead of the typical 5 position handle. Thirdly, the turn signal was on the column and only rarely would it shut itself off on a turn. It also drove sort of wierd, hard to explain.
However, it did have an AM/FM radio! And a back up camera, how many transit buses have these?
One interesting thing about this vehicle it that it was converted to diesel from either CNG or LNG.
Here are some pictures of it:
Mike
By the way:
Holland Bus Company
670 East 16th Street
Holland, MI 49423
(616) 396-1461 Phone (616) 396-1391 Fax
(800) 221-7197 or (800) 221-7198
Did you think the company was from Holland? Oops!
i like the xcel 102 model. that would work for the private lines.
Hi Gentlemen
Let my briefly background you as to why I am asking the following questions.
I am a poet ( I know - big groan ) and I want to stick a full side advert on to a NYC bus advertisng this fact.
I am a Brit..and I happen to live in Africa...so I know nothing about NYC or its buses..what I do know is that I've been quoted $1500 plus artwork by the outfit that do the adverts on the buses for a 12' x 3' ad on 1 side of 1 bus for 1 month.
I need advice on which route out of what depot is likely to get me the most bang for my buck...I need people to see it !!
Do the buses change routes everyday? Lets say my bus routes past Times Square on a monday...is it liable to be in the Bronx the next ?
Do the buses get taken of the road for servicing much? In any given month can I expect my bus to likely be on the road 31 days straight ?
Which side the bus do you reckon gets more eyeballs..the drivers side or the streetside?
What is the normal day for a bus ? 12 hours on the road then its rested ? or what ? I'm not talking drivers here..but the bus itself
I'm just trying to get a feel for the buses there.....and I reckon you guys are the ones to advise me.....likely the ad co will tell me whatever I want to hear...I am convinced that a bus ad will be seen by hundreds of thousands of people in a month....hence all this.
Thanks to any and all who reply.....you'll be hearing more if I do my ad ! Its gonna be a wild advert..cause a buzz...but..I need advice.
You only want to place an ad on *ONE* bus?
Peace,
ANDEE
yes..all i can afford is one bus ! u ever met a rich poet !
I would dought that TDI (firm that does adv. work) would want to put one adv. in a specific bus at a specific depot.
If you could afford four digits, you could do one adv. on the outside of a bus, but you would also have to pay for the adv. creation. I'm talking about a bus "wrap" vs. a poster that goes in a frame, because again posters go on mulitple buses.
thanks for yr info.....actually viacom outdoor have specifically quoted 1 bus 1 month for 1500 dollars plus close to 500 for the art work. But thanks anyway.
I gotta tell you I am rather disappointed in the general response to what I thought were a set of harmless questions. Sure the ad agency can likely tell me all i want to know..i just thought you guys. enthusiasts, might give it a more real slant.
But thanks anyway...i will hopefully get some info and in due course you will see my advert ...! cheers bye
I did contact some people in the MTA. You should contact Viacom Outdoor @ 212-599-1100.
Hope this helps.
Peace,
ANDEE
Andee yes thanks..actually yes I have been in touch with them..they were the ones who quoted the price.
i am hoping here to get from you guys some sort of insider info..u guys must know a lot mre than them on the buses
regards Bill
Another number, which I have obtained is, the MTAs real estate department @ 212-878-7019. They may be able to help.
Peace,
ANDEE
I have no idea if 'the poet' is legit or not, and I have no reason to suspect he/she is anything but a poet. I will say this, however. Be careful in how you respond to a posting from an unknown individual who is requesting information. Don't go and start giving away inside information about garages, routes, operations, etc., that the wrong person could use to cause trouble.
JD
Oh, stop being so paranoid.
Peace,
ANDEE
You can call it being paranoid if you want, but I plan to practice a healthy skepticism when strangers show up on these hobby boards and start asking all sorts of questions about transit or railroad operations.
Jim D.
Yes, but it's this paranoia that created that Sub/Bustalk hiatus some time ago... Want it again???
this paranoia that created that Sub/Bustalk hiatus some time ago
I disagree. IMO, my posting was not paranoid, nor do I think that it is in any way similar to the problems that caused these boards to be shut down in the past.
Jim D.
Well, you never know. I was simply going by what the person who posted before said. It's paranoia and regardless of who said what, I can feel it brewing!
i can assure you gentlemen that I am what i say I am. You have my word on that. As for proof...well..I can't except I'll quote you a verse on a poem I wrote on 9/11
A line we never asked to cross was drawn beyond the sea
But tall and proud, behind us stand the towers of the free.
Yes, sticks and stones can break our bones yet those we can rebuild
But the ideals of America stay just as our founders willed
Guys I am for real !
A very intelligent post. And nothing personal to the original poster.
It has nothing to with being paranoid or not.
It's called being vigilant.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again. Acting brave and thinking warm - fuzzy - positive - happy thoughts does nothing to protect you from someone who means to do you harm.
Rose colored glasses have never proven to be an effective form of protection either.
These are all questions you need to ask the person who quoted you the price. They will have all the statistics.
Rode it today on the 31. It had a manhattan map so Im guessin this one was from Amsterdam!This bus had Gunhill stickers too. So add one more.
AMI
You're right, it is from Amsterdam. Hmm what's up with GH getting some of these Orions lately and where is AMS going to get extra buses from since the whole garage is out practically every day.
I am just as shocked as u are . I was surprised to ride #469 yesterday and then #466. I was like WOW.So maybe GH will be all Artic and all OrionV.I will report to see if I get a new Orion that is not suppose to be at GH.
AMI
Hello. This is my first post in BusTalk but i've been reading the archives for a while now. I'm a transit enthusiast from Boston who's currently in college in Ithaca, NY. I was wondering a few things.
I know many people on the messageboard have expressed their dissatisfaction with the NovaBus Low floor models. I wanted to know, in depth, what problems they have. I've seen a lot of non-specific complaints, and I was wondering how drivers, mechaincs, and riders felt about this particular model.
Tompkins Consolidated Area Transit has been using them for a few years now here in Ithaca, I guess to replace their fleet of Orion I's. However, recently they have been introducing New Flyer D40LFs, which I actually prefer. I don't think Nova is getting any more business from the transit authority here.
I think it's a nice looking bus. It's comfortable, but doesn't feel very solid. What does everyone think about the Nova LFS?
TCAT! I miss the TCAT.
I went to school at IC... I was there when CU Transit, TomTran, and Ithaca Transit merged to become TCAT... In fact, they had just purchased a few new RTS busses, and that was when I fell in love with the RTS and the S50 engine.
I was rather dissapointed when I heard they got the Nova LFS. I can't imagine that heap would do well on the South Hill at all. Heck, ours cant even handle flat roads without the rear end being all over the place.
In short... the Nova LFS is a pile of crap. We have 71 of them here at Disney, and they're junk... they really are. The bus is plagued with major design flaws... and it's poorly manufactured. It's like Quality Control doesn't exist there. I find it humorous that they recently changed thier logo and removed the "QT - Quality & Technology" from the logo.
The LFS has an interesting design. It's a love it or hate it curb appeal, and it does have potential to be a decent bus... however, NovaBUS has chosen not to rise to that potential.
The drivers compartment is okay... nothing to rave about. Very simple, and very cheaply made. Dash lights consist of screw in light aimed light fixtures that never align properly, and always point the other way. In the rare situation that they do point in the right direction, they dont do squat to illuminate the dash.
The A/C is constantly leaking right over the control panel (and me, the driver!), causing everything to short circuit. I can't tell you how many times I've had the dash shoot sparks out at me.
The rear door is poorly designed... there is no protection for how it opens, and we've had lots of kids get trapped in the door as it opens. Even the handrails are poorly designed. When a larger person sits in one of the rear seats, the handrail seperates from the podium, and becomes free. Speaking of separating, the floor on many of the busses is already coming up.
The bus eats tires for lunch... it's constantly warping tires, and causing the bus to vibrate heavily at 40mph. Average life span for the tire is typically 1-2mo.
Another common problem - The Parking Brake doesnt always set properly. You pull up... and 2 seconds later, it decides to pop back down. The other day, it took me 5 attempts in order for the parking brake to set. Not very safe, if you ask me.
The engine compartment doesnt provide adequate ventilation for the engine. I can't tell you how many of our "new" busses have had premature turbocharger failure due to overheating. According to Detroit Diesel, it's the bus that's causing the engine problems. (NovaBUS told us "You can't drive the LFS like you do an RTS..." What does that mean? We have to baby it? It's a transit bus, for petes sake... it needs to be built to withstand abuse...) The bus also has a problem keeping coolant. I've had a number of busses just dump thier coolant on me. Our mechanics hate the bus...
Most of our other complains have to do with order specific details... the Ricon extendable ramps that we have only work half the time. The Tilt mechanism on the bus never holds... a passenger in a wheelchair might be driving up the ramp, when the bus untilts itself, tilting the passenger back, and making thier wheelchair fall backwards.
The mirrors are useless JUNK. The ones that are power, the motors are too fast. You tap it, and it goes to the far extreme. When you actually can adjust them, you still can't see a thing. Often times, they'll move out of place, even when properly tightened.
Our first order had USSC driver seats. HORRIBLE things... Uncomfortabnle, hard to adjust, and after three months, they were already all broken. Our second batch had Recaro seats that were much better.
Anyhoo, those are all the problems that I can think of off the top of my head, but beleive me, there are plenty more. They are cheaply manufactured busses with poor quality control. They arrive from the factory already needing service. I had one bus, had 800 miles on it... dash lights were all completely dead, ramp didnt work, and the Stop Engine light came on twice. Another bus arrived from the factory with it's exhaust pipe sticking 12" taller than it was supposed to. Apparently, they didn't measure when sizing it... and then "didn't notice" (or didnt care about) the flaw.
Our third shipment (and last one, thankfully) just arrived 2 weeks ago. Not too many running changes... the only major one that I've seen is that they have sun shades instead of visors. Haven't used them yet, but I imagine they're cheaply made just like everything else. The busses wont be going into service probably for another week or two... they are awaiting service.
Not quite sure what bus we're going to buy next... but I can bet it won't be the LFS. We've had too many problems and issues with it, and no one likes them at all. I wish we could step back into time and get some more RTS's :) Now THAT is a solid, durable bus.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Wow, I had no idea they had so many problems. That's pretty disappointing. I think TCAT ordered at least 8 of them.
You're right about the hill thing. They just don't seem made for the topography of Ithaca. Also, the front sticks out so far when turning. People routinely have to back up their cars in the oncoming lane when the bus makes a turn into a street. I don't know if that's because of the overhang, or if all 40ft buses do that. Still, seems pretty cumbersome.
If TCAT already has 8 NFI low floors in the span of one month, they must not be very happy with the Nova. Those buses are so new, too.
There's still a few 30 (or is it 35?) foot RTSs around. The Orion I is still there, but they seem to be disappearing.
>You're right about the hill thing. They just don't seem made for the
>topography of Ithaca. Also, the front sticks out so far when
>turning. People routinely have to back up their cars in the oncoming
>lane when the bus makes a turn into a street. I don't know if that's
>because of the overhang, or if all 40ft buses do that. Still, seems
>pretty cumbersome.
The LFS wasn't made for ANY form of topography... 'cept a Flatbed tow truck. They seem naturally at home there. Many drivers here refuse the LFS during or after a rainstorm... those busses are all over the road... the rear end can't stay still. No traction, whatsoever. And whats worse, is that the ABS is constantly going out, which makes the retarter lock the wheels up. Not fun.
The LFS does have quite a large overhang... however, it really more has to do with the specific situation and whatnot. There are right hand turns that I've made where a lesser driver might have either hit the car, or the curb... (or, made the car back up)... However, there's always that time when you hit the impossible corner... where you really have to have the car either go, or back up, simply because the bus just can't make that tight of a corner without overhanging into the other lane. Ithaca is FILLED with back roads that just weren't meant for bus traffic... heck, they werent meant for car traffic it seems either... lol...
As for the RTS's... the ones I'm referring to were 1996 35' models, with the Series 50 engine. They were also the first busses to feature the new TCAT logo and swooshy paint scheme, funky padded seats, and electronic destination signs. I would imagine they'd still be there for a few more years. They were the pride of the fleet when I left.
On a more personal note... Is DP Dough still around? I miss DP Dough... lol... :)~
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Yep, D.P. Dough is alive and well. Good food.
The RTS's are from 96? Wow, i thought they were much older. I don't see them in the commons area very often, but they'll usually pass through at some point of the day.
>The RTS's are from 96? Wow, i thought they were much older. I don't
>see them in the commons area very often, but they'll usually pass
>through at some point of the day.
TomTran (I think) and maybe another one of the other companies pre-TCAT ran a few 40' GMC RTS's... if they still have them... that might be what you're thinking of... I remember seeing them in pictures with the new livery. The RTS's that Im thinking of are fleet 961-965 (?) Can't remember how many they got. I remember one of them was always on the 6... and consequently, I'd always hear it every half hour from my room in the West Tower.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Yeah, i've seen those 40' GMCs from that other operator, I can't remember what it's called.
Sadly, service up to IC is now pretty limited. There's only one route, the 11/12 (night), usually an Orion I or a NovaLFS runs on this route. Lately they've been using the D40LF since it's so crowded from the lack of frequent service. Cornell gets everything.
IIRC, those older RTS's belong to Swarthout & Ferris. But I may be wrong.
Cornell '97 here, but I took a few shots when I was up visiting this past September:
More available on request.
[I don't think Nova is getting any more business from the transit authority here.]
Nova has withdrawn the LFS from the U.S. market, at least as far as public authorities go (LFS's have been delivered to Disney following the withdrawal announcement). The bulk of Nova LFS deliveries the next few years will be to operators in Quebec Province.
I, personally, like the LFS as a rider and bus fan, but I acknowledge reports of many problems. Interestingly, I hated the design when I first saw it at the Nova plant, but switched my opinion after riding demo 995 on the M14 when it was in NYC. When I was in Chicago in October, I had heard the CTA liked their LFS's so far. I believe Albany, NY, had placed more than one order for LFS's. I know Montreal has experienced some problems with them, but thought these had been worked out.
Yeah, I have seen some of them in Albany.
Someone on the messageboard mentioned that one of the (many) reasons the LFS failed on the MTA in new york is because of the one-piece windshield. Is there a rule that requires buses to have two-piece windshields in nyc?
Rob,
Welcome to the board. Thanks for the info about TCAT - I visited Ithaca a couple of years ago and got some pictures of their Orion I's and RTS buses. I knew they had purchased the LFS buses, but I didn't know that they also have New Flyer low-floors too. I'll have to make a trip down there when the weather improves.
As FYI, you'll also find Nova LFS buses on the NFTA system in Buffalo and Niagara Falls, and a few of them south of you in Elmira operated by Chemung County Transit. CCT also runs a weekday route to Ithaca - do you ever see those buses in town? I believe they operate some of the last Nova RTS buses built on that route.
Jim D.
Syracuse, NY
Yep! I've seen a CCT bus on Seneca Street. 40ft RTS if i'm not mistaken. There are a lot of smaller operators that operate all sorts of unusual equipment too. The other day I saw an Orion II; what an odd looking vehicle.
The number of TCAT New Flyers has risen dramatically in only two weeks. I see them everywhere now. The numbers keep getting higher - they're numbered series 200. The LFS are series 100.
Well The R4 and R6 Buses serve Ithaca from CCT. And I don't think the LFS's would run on it. The bus would most likely to run on it would be the Orion1 1 Door Suburbans
Not yet!
I am trying, I am not sure what I am doing wrong, or if I am doing everything right and AOL won't allow me to do it or what. I keep trying.
If at first you don't succeed.
Curse and try again.
May I help you?
Looking at the code,
http://www.aol.com/C:/Kodak%20Picture%20CD/My%20Pictures0002.jpg, it looks like it's looking for an image on your C: drive or something.
The trouble with posting pictures on forums like these is having a place on the web to put it, and it is increasingly difficult to find a place that will do it for free. It used to be possible to set up a free Tripod or Geocities (Geoshitties) account and link to pictures that way, but they got smart and decided to stop giving away bandwidth in situations where someone wasn't forced to look at their adverts.
After you do find a place to put it, it's just a matter of knowing the code.
(IMG SRC="http://www.mike-stephenson.org/files/bluebirdoutside.jpg") will bring up this,
, if the parenthesis are replaced with < and > respectively. I pay a few bucks a month for the privilege of having my own website though.
-Mike
I had loaded it up from my picture CD to my computer so I could post it to this sight, but that didn't work. Would it be best to post the picture from my CD or from my computer. If neither would work, I could use my a spot on aol called "my pictures" and try to load it from there.
I have also thought of getting a website to post pics and other info, right now I am trying to get my financial house in order first before doing anything else.
If there is a way to help me out I would gladly appreciate the help.
If you're on AOL... go to keyword FTP... click on See My FTP Space... From there, you can upload pictures. Reference them as http://members.aol.com/screenname/picturename.jpg
thanks, I'll try it.
I was reading the National Geographic and I saw the article on Broadway. Cool, I saw a picture of downtown Broadway approaching Battery Pl. Here's what I saw:
GMC RTS-04 #1298 (express)
GMC "New Look" #6924 and #5573 (Bus #6924 had the number on the back window while bus #5573 had its number on the fan)
A bunch of MCI Classics from Command and on MCI MC-5 (Drummond) bus.
A few NYCTA Flxible New Looks with a black trim (kind of simliar to buses #7754 and #7535 today).
Also, in a 1989 issue...I saw bus #3223 on 3rd Av as they were talking about East Harlem.
Memories!
Ray
It is with deep regret that I announce bus 3951, one of the ten vehicles recently transferred to Fresh Pond depot, quietly passed away this afternoon 2/13/03. 3951, an eighteen year old GMC suffered from severe engine problems in her final days. My condolences, as I know this is a heavy blow to people like DaRidgewoodBusBuff who were looking forward to riding this classic on the streets of Ridgewood...
3951 was buried today under the "el" with her sisters 3902, 3919 and 3921, all of which recently went to the great bus yard in the sky.
I also regret to announce that 4884, a fifteen year old TMC coach, had to be put out of it's misery on 2/13/03. 4884 ran ok but suffered from soft seats that were in extremely poor condition. 4884 also suffered from frequent mechanical problems which was costing the NYCT more money in repair costs then it was generating in revenue service. At approxiately 6:00pm this evening, it was decided to take 4884 off the respirator and remove her from the 'in service' floor. 4884 was buried under the "el" with her cousins, the 3900 series GMC's.
After the usual bustalkers affected by this tragic loss feel they are complete with their period of mourning, they may go back to their usual rantings about the Fresh Pond buses.
BIG AL
i like the style al
Yo, Y izit these buses be comin' here when they ain't gonna be used. Whatz da point of them be gettin' sent here only 2 be sentenced 2 death? These guyz be on crack sendin' these bombz here 2 Da Ridgewood territory. We needz better buses repin' BK, ya heard?
For those who don't have a clue to what I said in my previous post, I was trying to describe why FP gets dumped with buses that aren't even going to be used, but hey, I'm not complaining. It makes no sense sending them here only to be scrapped, they should've got rid of them to begin with.
On a side note, it wuz kinda nice to be seein' Suburbans here in FP. It kinda suckz that all 3 of them are gone. I hope better buses will be comin' to represent FP soon. The suffering goez on, we getz no love.
You know what I'm saying Ridgewood; they come here only to find out they get killed before they make a run on Brooklyn streets. BK will continue to get these old bombs b/c as I said before, this is the 'Retirement center' [that's my catch phrase for the hand me downs ending their careers here in BK ;-)].
could they swap the hard seaters of the death buses at FP to Ulmer Park, jsut a thought.
R.I.P. #4884
I think 4890-4891 have double sided seats on them. Are they still running out of FP?
And I kinda knew 3951 was going to be scrapped. I remember it had mechanical problems at QV and at KB.
RIP 3951!!!
#4890 B24
#4891 Q59
Well, lets have a moment of silence for the buses of MISERY now going up there! *Silence* ok back to the ranting; well goodbye to 3902,3919,3921,3951 and 4884. Man, too bad I didn't get a chance to get on the old clunkers [3902 and 3951] but they never had a chance :-(. BTW, saw 4833 on the B48 yesterday with FP stickers.
I rode almost every 3900 GMC RTS there was except for a few.
Most of them when they were at QV.
I do remember 3988 on the Q56-lol. It looked very similar to the 3997 at FP. That's why ENY was smart getting rid of that piece of junk.
FYI 3906 AND 3965 are still chugging at MHV. Look for those to head to FP to join the others-LMAO!
3906 still has the original Bronx-style numbering and the black porkchop panel and 3965 has very shotty Express Seats-just like the 1700/3800 series. Duct taped BADLY!
There are 2 3800 series buses still rolling: 3809 and 3893-both from HUDSON. Be on the lookout.
#3809 M6
#3893 M21
#3906 M2
#3965 M3
Oh no BUT nothing compares to 3997 [Ridgewood I had to see this bus for 4 years when the B8; my home route; was ENY and on other ENY buses and it ran on the B8 A LOT] that bus WAS AND STILL IS AWFUL! They should of kept 3985,3999,4007 & 4013, those were decent buses shows the DOB scrapped some good buses but kept the shitty ones. Oh man was 3988 BAD and 3990 actually got a improvement in acceleration for a while. The WORST 3000's buses of ENY a few years ago was 3073,3076,3090,3193,3194,3313,3990 and 3997 to name a few; in fact more than half should have been scrapped sooner and imagine the 3200's and 3300's FP had. And the Lucite windows on the 1983 RTS oh man, they made the 1986 GM windws look good!
Tell me about it. I remember 3309 on the Q59 and the Stop Requested sign was from a blitz. I remember riding 3193 on the Q56. I have 2 pics of it somewhere-got to look in my archives to find it. Talk about yuck!
#3193 Q56 OLD SCHOOL!!!
Oh no, the 3200's and 3300's in FP, oh my those buses were *BAD*! Oh yeah you want bad, try 3320-3325 at ENY, especially 3322 whew this bus had so much filth on the outside, nasty Lucite windows, seemed to go NO HIGHER than 30mph, glad that crap is shredded! I remember 3279 & 3284 from UP having Blitz STOP REQUESTED signs too. I also remember 1406,1416 and 1418 in ENY 2-3 years ago, three hand me downs from FB these performed BETTER than the awful 1983 RTS; easily the worst RTS model ever made for NYCTA. Don't get me to the ENY roster before the Novas came into production.....
Oh yeah, remember the 3309 in FP? That bus made me feel miserable when it was on the Q55.
I would usually see that bus at Fulton Mall in the past, sad sight. Also I think FP was one of the last depots to retire their Blitzes[not really a bad thing]. Where did I come up with this LOL, well its good I came up with this out of the blue; lets move away from all the misery for a little bit 8-).
Let me save you the trouble, Flatbush41. The buses were at least 11 years old, with the exception of 40 buses in 1990 (whatever happened to 8098 that it appeared scrapped before it got to make its debut) and 33 in 1994.
8098 died very young, it was BURNED to the point that it was impossible to salvage.
You can imagine my frustration when I recently received new license plates with the numbers 8098! Bus burnt when young and no NYC subway car with those numbers either!
8098! Guess who had that bus as a batwing fishbowl during the early 1980's?......FP!
Yo ENY Nova 5205, DaRidgewoodBusBuff, Caine824 and others, ain't it funny that people think that the other boroughs had it WORSE than Brooklyn when it came to Hand Me Down RTS's. ENY had a pretty old fleet in 1991 shortly before the 1991 TMC's arrived; so did FB. And UP, JG & FP was nowhere near touching those when new.
A little snip at FB's fleet when the 1991 TMC arrived
GM Blitz:5365-5404 and probably a few others
1981 RTS:1376-1436,1641-1658,2303-2310
1983 RTS:3023-3067
1988 RTS:4731-4752
1991 RTS:8130-8171
I don't think 3400-3432 was imported from JG just yet.
May the deceased buses rest in eternal peace
No, may they rust in pieces in NIMCO's lot. I need some more MACH III razor blades.
R.I.P- Rust in pieces, LOL!
A follow-up to the 3474 thread: How do they decide which busses to scrap? There are 3400s running still, but no 3500s through 3800s? Why? And all sorts of random 4000s, 4100s ect all the way through the 4800s. Seems so random.
Since I was a teen (1980's) it appreared that NYCTA has never really retired a specific group of buses at the same time. I think what happens is that when the buses get old they start retiring them on an individual basis - meaning that if a particular bus needs attention... they may decide to retire it if the required work is extensive or the bus is simply deemed to be worn-out.
Wayne
That's right Roger T himself was at this depot yesterday.
Why you ask, well he has just fired VP George Jennings (the former Local 100 VP is now headed for the un-employment line as he can't come back to Jamaica & drive or dispatch).
So, Roger talked to the boys & girls in the shape up room for a while.
They talked about the status of the contract, NY Bus and other matters. I hung out there for a while, but since I'm in management I didn't stay too long or ask any questions.
"He was at this depot". What depot are you referring to?
BIG AL
[What depot are you referring to?]
Queens Surface.
Well.....I was somewhat surprised by your response to my intial posting. OK..I understand in these days we all need to be aware more, as it were, but if you look at exactly what I was asking about surely it was harmless stuff ?
I asked which was the busiest route
I asked if the one bus I hope to have my ad on would route the same each day.
I asked if during my 2000 dollar month I could expect 'my' bus to
likely be on the road the full month.
Which side of the bus likely gets seen more, the driver or street side
Roughly how many hours a day on the road could I expect 'my' bus to be ?
Surely these questions are innocent enough.....what on earth do you think I would do with this info if I was the maybe 'bad' guy that you imply I just might be....come on.....
So, perhaps you would reconsider your first response, as you seem to be a man of influence in this group. I have nothing to hide and thru this post, as you will know, my email address is freely available...u might ask why I am persevering..well..as I said, although all the info I am after is easily gotten (I hope) from other sources, I just thought that you guys being, for want of a better word, bus lovers, might gimme the real low down rather than some ad agency speak...etc etc. I assure you I did not intend to provoke fear or whatever else by my questions....and will not post again unless encouraged to.
In the coming months you will see in fact that this was/is a genuine thing..as I hope to get my ad out as soon as possible. I am not a rich guy and $2k on a poster on a bus is a lotta money..I just wanna give it my best shot. Thanks for your time. Regards Bill Vernon
Don't worry, I'm on your side! Of course in NYC, we have to worry about the 'terrorist' threat.
Bill,
No offense was intended in my postings - there's been a lot of discussion on some of the bus and rail fan Internet boards about being careful about the type of information we discuss here. We all enjoy riding, photographing and/or talking about buses, and our hobby would be severely curtailed if someone used one of our favorite vehicles as a weapon. As it is, many of us have been questioned about our interest in buses and trains at least once since 9/11. I can only hope that such concerns will someday be unnecessary.
I don't work in the transit industry myself, so I do not have any special insight into how an advertisement ends up on a particular bus, or if you can choose a particular bus or route to display your ad. I will offer my opinion to one of your questions, though - I would choose the 'street-side' (right side) of the bus - that way, your artwork can be viewed by the passengers at the bus stops as well as pedestrians and some motorists.
Good luck in your endeavors.
Jim D.
I have to agree with your outlook. up untill 9/11 most people, even those in charge of sensitive places(utilities,transit,hospitals,etc...)did not give it a second thought to freely distribute what could be used, in the wrong mindset, to harm countless scores of innocent poeple. It's not to say that we should enter back into an age of coldwar neo-McArthyism, but when someone approaches me to enter the garage proprerty to photograph etc, I have to admit that sometimes I think about scrutinizing his reasons with newfound skepticism-It does'nt mean that I stop him, Id' never want someone to cause me a hard time persuing my hobby, but I do look over my shoulder a little more often.
Well I rode this bus on the 31. Boy this bus had motherclare stickers,had an engine simlar to a Artic and it seem that the box where it says Adult,Student,Pass. was braken. Their was map. The transmission seemed to be a step slow. But all in out this has been a good week for Orion for me. WOW bus 466,469,470 all at Gunhill now. Can someone tell me what the hell is going on.
AMI
Maybe MCH refused them ;-). All jokes aside, I don't know what's up with that maybe it was a pit stop who knows; I saw 470 with MCH stickers just last Saturday on the 2/5 shuttle bus along with 468.
Thats the next bus Im gonna see is at Gunhill. 468. I want to see if any thing new is at Gunhill when I go up there tommorow. Well Maybe.I post the full report.
AMI
I'm clueless why these Onions are going up there to GH. They have 402-409 and now 466-470. I assume it's related to the opening of West Farms Depot soon and the closing of wither MCH AMS and/or HUD.
FYI 468 IS at GH.
#468 BX28
To R142/R143MAN, guess you don't have to do that report now. At GH, they have 402,403,405-412 and now 466-470. HP and probably AMS would be closing, MCH is scheduled to get new buses so that's staying open although I wonder who will get the selected displaced Orion V's.
OOPS! I forgot about 404 at CS and 410-412 at GH. I think 413 made its way up there as well.
I assume the older Onions will be heading up there and the 6000 Series Onions will be staying around MCH...for now.
#6007 M1
Well lets say that happens, the Brooklyn depots will be seeing MORE hand me down RTS's but that won't be bad since Gun Hill basically has no crap. 400,401,404 & 425 are at CS so that's why there's a break from 424 to 426 at AMS. The Orion V repowers STINK also, some of them sound like the 1999 Orions! I miss those original Cummins on the majority of the 1993's :-(. We'll just have to see what the DOB does.
Normally, I can care less about anything that goes on in the Bronx, but I wouldn't mind Gun Hill's RTS's coming over here to Brooklyn since it's mainly 1990 and newer. Maybe those Orions going to Gun Hill will push out some of those RTS's(I'm looking at 9229-9249). They can keep those 8800's, because I don't want to see anything here that reminds me of Kingsbridge*shudders*.
I hope Gun Hill sends Brooklyn some repowered 8800's, just to keep tradition of brooklyn getting the city's crap buses ( swipe at Brooklyn).
I think you meant 8000 series repowered buses??? ....because all of the NYCTA RTS after the 1993 group came with the DD Series 50, except the Cummins M11 equipped 9140-9149, of course.
Wayne
I guess you're right, as i'm not too keen on RTS fleet numbers.
Listen, the 8000-8032 in FP/FLA are from the Bronx, and I have no problems with the other 8000's coming here to Brooklyn.
Well then, KB will send you some 4000 buses! **evil laugh**
Yeah, and I hope you KB riders are enjoying those 4600's JG dumped on you. :)
I'm not a KB rider.
MABSTOA, yes, Bronx division... yes again, but 8000-8032 originally came from Manhattan (MCH). The 8000 series originally from the Bronx are 8034-8079.
Wayne
If you think that badly of The Bronx why would you want Gun Hill's 9200 series - which have been there since day one. Also - it would be another "hand-me-down". Also... Instead of "hatin" on The Bronx maybe you should direct some of that at ENY since they have loads of the newer buses that you'd like to see at FP. The way I see it... they're plenty of newer buses in Brooklyn, but FP becomes the loser since the other Brooklyn depots have much more of the newer buses. Also look at all of CNG buses and MCI in Brooklyn. I guess it's just a pity at FP doesn't have a CNG fuel station or express routes. The only thing The Bronx has over Brooklyn are the artics.
Wayne
Booo, for the artics!! THey suck because they have the capacity of becoming ULTRA crowded, and carrying 4 rows of standing people, and RTS are incapable of letting the crowding get that extreme.
I've ridden them many times on the Bx1/2, Bx12 and Bx55 which have large crowds and I don't see much of a problem. They get very crowded, but the people manage to get on/off etc. Isn't the extra capacity the whole idea of an articulated bus??? Here in WMATA land I've ridden jammed packed MAN SG-220, NABI 436 and the new Neoplan AN-460 and again... tome they seem the same as any crowded bus, except they're just longer.
Wayne
The problem is with EXTREME crowding, like on the BX22 during rush hours, where you have 4 to 5 rows of standees, and where there is NO moving room. The RTS are not as wide and cannot hold as many people in the aisle, and are not subject to extreme crowding expierenced on the artics.
Well whenm they assign an Artic to the BX31 it is all good.Even though it get crowed but on a normal bus it would be worst.
AMI
Um, most of those buses in Brooklyn are also hand-downs. 9229-9249 wouldn't be any different. 5205-5249 were KB buses that got sent here along with 5075-5099 from Gun Hill. And those 4300/4400s in ENY/FLA(and now FP) are Bronx hand-downs too, and don't forgot about 4753-4792 in Ulmer Park(from Amsterdam). And to say Brooklyn has the newest buses is a joke. And those MCI's shouldn't count, because they're only on Express routes(you Bronx riders don't deserve them anyway). Just and wait until Flatbush41 and caine824 see this, they will tell you just how good we have it here in Brooklyn(sarcasm). And I will not change my attitude toward the Bronx Division.
Oh, you're gonna laugh at this; that's why they DO NOT have a real MTA express bus network[they may in the future] and the X32 don't count b/c its 2 trips, now that's a laugher 8-).
Oh yeah we really have it good here in Brooklyn(let's be real we have JUNK). Some droughts of getting brand new buses/originals in the Brooklyn division.
FP-11 years 1985-1996, 4 years 1999-present
UP-8 years 1988-1996, 7 years 1996-present[EXCLUDING THE MCI's]
FB-6 years 1997-present
ENY-5 years 1998-present
JG-3 years 2000-present
As you SEE, FP & UP always was the last two depots to get new buses. Had UP NEVER got the 1996 Novas, they would probably be in a 15 year drought of recieving NO new originals! FP once had a ELEVEN year marathon of hand me downs while UP had a EIGHT year drought and you guys think its a joke; we'll here's the cold reality! I remember back in 1991 when UP got the 1983 RTS imported to UP from elsewhere in the city; these buses were JUNK from the day they arrived! I had to see this wonderful(sarcasm) sight on the B8 FOR 7 years before it went to ENY in 1998.
Thank you Flatbush, reading your post made me feel better. :)
No prob, Ridgewood :-). Man, I gotta let these people know the reality of all this stuff us Brooklynites went through over the years! I don't even want to get to the rosters of the Brooklyn depots before the later TMC's [1993 and 1994] & Novas came into production, it's more depressing :-\. This IS NOT A JOKE GUYS, THIS IS REAL! The Brooklyn depots aka the Hand me down/Retirement Center [my catch phrase ;-)] has been in full swing since who knows when.....
Re:9229-9249...my point exactly. Now that you've point out the buses that were handed down to Brooklyn don't forget about those came to Brooklyn new and many still are there such as all of FP's Novas, Most of ENY Novas and many of UP's Novas. Also so who else has the C40LF??? Hmmm! You say the Bronx doesn't deserve good buses. Well take a good look at FP's buses that have spent their entire lives there. They look pretty bad. Now I admit that FP doesn't have a great fleet, but other depots have suffered too. Look at the drought the the Queens division went through in the early and mid 90's - including many junk buses regularly being dumped at JAM. The difference there is that QV and JAM (and CS) are maintained very well. Also - until the Orion V's arrived Staten Island was also a big dumping ground, but they survived it. Oh - so now the MCI's shouldn't count! Give me a break. My point is... You name any TA/OA depot and I can give you some period(s) in which they didn't have a particularly great fleet. No sympathy here and when I come home for a visit - I'll continue to enjoy The Bronx and Queens buses.
Wayne
I never said Brooklyn was the only place that had it bad. I remember QV when it was stuck with all of those 3900's, and JA getting all of those hand-downs, they didn't have it great either, but at least now they don't have to worry about all of that. It's true, ENY does have the most Nova's(mainly because of the 5205-5249). And just because Fresh Pond has 103 original Novas means nothing, those are the only originals FP even has. Jamaica has 108 original Novas, but they were still dumped with a lot of old hand-downs, while both KB and GH got at least 100 original Novas(before 1999 ones were transferred). And the C40LF's are only in Brooklyn only because of JG depot. If there was another CNG depot, I bet JG wouldn't had gotten the entire 190 buses. Besides JG, Brooklyn does not have a huge amount of new buses, believe me, we are treated like crap.
...and I never said that youd said Brooklyn was the onlu hard-luck case either. Your statement about the Bronx depotys is not quite correct. KB '98 and '99 Novas are indeed original KB buses, but the '96 are not. Things are much better today with the artics, but The Bronx has had it's share of second-hand buses too. I realize the reason the C40LF's in are Brooklyn, but the point is... they ARE in Brooklyn and they're new - but I guess that mean nothing too. Huh???
You're right about the 1996 Novas, I think all of them are hand me downs except 8930 and 8937, which are KB originals. The original homes of:
8806-8867-Walnut
9111-9139-MCH
Ok, lets SETTLE this. Every depot at one point had some hard luck OK; yeah Hudson Pier, Jamaica and Queens Village had some real bad buses I admit but it didn't compare to what Brooklyn gets/got. We got OLD RTS hand me downs disproportionately to other boroughs over the years; sorry but its the truth. As for the C40LF's, that's the last set of new buses Brooklyn got *BESIDES* the MCI's.
That's the point I was making, but your buddy refused to hear it.
Wayne
I've been reading this bulletin board periodically and decided to jump into the fray.
My name's Brent, and I work as a mechanic for a transit authority immediately north of Toronto, Ontario,Canada(for those reading from abroad). Our fleet consists mostly of 30'and 40' orion 1's 40'orion5's, 1 orion 2, 2 NFID40 high floors, 2 MC-9's, 3 Champion SoLo's,3 Flexible Metro's(death row) and here's the kicker and my personal favourite- a 1967(albeit refurb'd) 40' GMC fishbowl of TTC heritage, still chugging along in regular,daily service-although,with new buses arriving probably not for long-(still has the ground level exhaust,too). Anyhow my outfit has received off and on ,over the course of the last year,8 Thomas(now Orion)SLF230's and 235's. I was wondering- have any of you guys to the south run across any of these things in your travels? (I hear Baltimore has some, as does Santa Clara or Santa Monica?) and if so, have your experiences been as frightfully negative as ours? I know many of you speak negatively of the Gillig Phantom ,and although I have'nt seen one of them up close, I think it would be a safe assumption that these Thomases are just as bad if not worse in some categories(transmissions failing fo example). Anyhow, I look forwatd to talking to you guys much more in the furure-cheers!
BTW-It's probably common knowledge already,but Southern Ontario, especicially Toronto is definitely a mecca for anyone who still wants to see GMC newlooks and Classics in regular service. The fishbowls especicially, the TTC runs them at about the same fleet density as the NYCTA runs their RTS's.
Welcome to Bustalk Torontobusmech, hope you enjoy your time here. In NYC, the only buses we have that Toronto has is the 40' Orion V's.
In NYCTA we have:
The RTS [the days of the reman 1981/1982 & 1984-1988 GM/TMC buses are numbered]
New Flyer C40LF
New Flyer D60HF
Orion V/Orion V CNG's
A few Orion VI's
A few New Flyer Vikings
D4500 MCI
Orion VII [coming soon]
Its kinda funny, the only one that I don't recognise are the NFI Vikings(never heard of that one in my life-does it have an AKA?). the TTC now boasts 52 Nova RTS's delivered in 2000, and has placed an order for 150-175 Orion7's(allready have 150+CNG Orion'6 and @120 NFID40lf'S)
Missassauga Transit (the city to Toronto's immediate west, Has many D60 hf, d60lf, orion6,7,5,2, and some 1's left,no surprise that they're mosty Orion, as they're home to Orion's original plant, the other one being in Oriskany, NY.
The NF Vikings are 45' express buses that are very funny looking; only 3 we're delivered.
Is that any relation to the ones that Neoplan has been building in the states for the last few years? (An-445/I think?)
up here it's all MCI mc102's/suburbans/D4500's and the odd Prevost XL45'
Well I doubt it since the Vikings were made by New Flyer.
-sorry,Thought maybe they were marketed under a different name. kinda like New Flyer and AM General-they're out of production now I reckon?
Well not too familiar with AM General buses but I think they we're bought out back in the 80's.
That sounds About correct, What I do know is that from adout 1977 to 1985? NFI was producing trolley bus shells and diesel buses identical to AM general's for the Canadian market. As to whom was using whom's original plans I don't know, but AMG seems to have been folded into New Flyer in the mid 80's sometime and marketed under the same name for all North America ever since.
Actually, you dudes got the AMG situation reversed. In the mid-70's, Flyer got together with American Motors to market transit buses in the U.S. American motors formed AM General as their truck/bus subsidiary, making transit buses, and Jeeps for commercial/military use. The transit bus part started in 1973 and ended in 1978. From 1979 to 1981 AMG tried to pry into the trolley bus market for US and South American properties. When that failed, AM General continued in the Jeep business until the company was bought out by Chrysler in the 80`s. The exit of AM General left Flyer with no US partner, so the company directly marketed their line of buses to US transit systems, eventually establishing a manufacturing facility in the US in the late 80's.
Welcome to the board!
From what I've read, the MTA in Baltimore has had a lot of trouble with their Thomas SLF buses. Those buses are only 2 or 3 years old, yet MTA frequently has to substitute their 15-year-old Flxible Metro 30-footers on the 'Shuttlebug' routes which the Thomas buses were bought to serve. My guess is that the SLF's (like the Gilligs) are not durable enough for big-city service.
Jim D.
indeed, it would seem that it's another case of a school bus manufacterer trying to enter the transit sector and re-invent the wheel.I'm just sad to see that Orion is now attatching its reasonably good name to such crates. These things are no better than the Champion SoLo, if you've ever had any experience with those-especically in the Canadian climate. But, the were the low bidder to York Region Transit's tender, so that's what I have to contend with for the next 10+ years. (hopefully they'll get retired early, or catch fire, or something)
I have had the unfortunate experience of riding the Champions. Some run for THE BUS and they are the crappiest bus I have ever seen, other than the Orion IIs. Ours are the high floor Contender? model and have run here for about 5+ years. If there is a word to describe them, they are SUPERCRAP. One time I was behing one and it seem it couldn't get up a hill and it wasn't that steep of a hill(most likely had engine/tranny problems) I look forward to the day THE BUS gets rid of this rolling junk. The Thomas SLFs I like, here in PG, they seem to have no problem with them, Baltimore is another story.
The problem here is the crappy condition of Baltimore's streets, with potholes, low and high curbs.
Two of the Thomases are OOS after collisions, one frontal and one rear-ender.
At least one of our 30 foot FLX "Baby Buses" has been wrapped/painted for the Hampden Shuttlebug.
Welcome to the board. We have Thomas SLFs down here in the D.C. area, running for THE BUS and some recently went into service for the City of Falls Church, run by the main transit authority WMATA (Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority). The ones that run for THE BUS seem to do pretty well, and I have seen no problems. The ones that run for the City of Falls Church are too early to tell. Baltimore has some in service for their Shuttlebug service and up there they aren't doing to well. The last time I went up there, they weren't even in service, that service being run by 30' Flx Metros. There are also some buses that run a different shuttle service and I have heard they aren't doing too well either. Being mid duty buses and not really built for heavy duty work, or some tough city streets, they won't last long. I would though rather have Thomas SLFs than Champions of any make, since they are 10 times more crappier than the Thomases.
You have Flxible Metros up there. How do well do they run, and where did they come from. It is very rare to see those in Canada.
First time doing this for Flatbush buses. Everyday on the 41, its always filled with traffic via Livingston St and Flatbush Av but we get empty roads at times and depends on how the driver drives.
I was coming home from school around 1:30pm and I waited for the 41 by the courthouse by Adams St. I let 5101 go since I ride the LTD and I have no patience riding the local; a few minutes later 4621 comes, I get on we load up and we're off. We get caught with traffic throughout Livingston and the northern half of Flatbush up to Atlantic Av [seems like the project where the kiosk was once at is a never ending project]. We go smoothly, pass local 5101 at St Marks; arrive at GAP then we're off on the Prospect stretch. We do about 45mph and the engine DID NOT freeze at 25-30mph :-0! Too bad half of the 41 drivers don't go as fast through there as they used to :-(. We're moving through the LTD stops until Church Av, where a wheelchair will board then things go wrong. Since the driver saw the bus was too far from the curb, we had to go in reverse and in turn 8409, a LTD leaves us, 5101 caught up and passes us then ANOTHER local 4620 passed us too. While stuck at Church, this dread was selling incense outside; the driver barred him from selling on the bus [I'm telling you this bus route is ghetto LOL] and people was buying it through the windows and made $5. I give him props for getting a quick buck on the bus. Anyway, driver does good until I reach my stop at Foster and the B8 is right there [THANK GOD!] and then I take it home.
Here's all the buses I saw on the B41:
4301,4441,4444,4469,4621,4654,5083,5086,5093,5098,5101,5103,5115,5120,7509,8148,8162,8165,8321,8325,8405,8409,8418,8422,8438,8448,9386,9388,9392. On the B49:9396
Are all of the 8000s you mentioned repowered?
#8448 B41
No, 8162, 8165 & 8325 still have their original engines, all the other 8000's I mentioned are repowered. Let me give you a list of the repowers and non-repowers [still quite a few of these at FB 8-)].
Repowered: 8021,8026,8027,8032,8045,8066,8074,8130,8137,8140,8146,8148,8156,8159,8164,8319-8321,8324,8330,8336,8337 and all the 1993 TMC's
Non-repowers:
8018-8020,8022-8025,8028-8031,8073,8088,8138,8142-8145,8149,8150,8154,8162-8165,8318,8322,8323,8325-8329,8331-8335,8338,8339
50-50. Good I hate the TMC Repowers. So S-L-O-W!
#8334 B41
I know I hate them on the 1991 TMC's, they stink [8045 & 8324 are pretty slow starters just to name a few] have to see that everyday. The original engines on the 1993 TMC's we're SO BAD so it suits those fine plus I think it was done as a mid life rehab and for cleaner exhaust. The 1991's w/the original RULES!
I agree. I also like the repowered 1993 TMC's beeter than the Non-repowered ones. But the repowered 1990 TMC's are not as good though.
1990 RTS(N-R) > 1990 (R).
1993 RTS(R) > 1993 (N-R).
Are there ANY nonrepowered 1993 TMC RTS left? I thought they were all repowered.
I'm not sure, maybe Manhattan has some. But I do know all the ones in Brooklyn are repowered.
Nope, all of the 1993's have been repowered already.
While on my way to City Island to have dinner with the wife, I saw Orion V 466 in service on the Bx29, with the Gun Hill sticker already attached.
Spotted a bus I thought was at CS (#526) sporting QV stickers and a Q88 sign at about 3:30 on Queens Blvd. It seems that another Orion comes over from Stengel to replace a scrapped RTS. Are they adding buses, or is 526 a replacement, and if the latter, for what RTS? And are 524 and 525 in QV?
1985 and 1986 RTS are getting replaced. All of the 1985 RTS have left QV but there are a few 1986 RTS left operating...for now. Those will probably head over to FP-LMAO!
Orions are the RTS replacements since the Artics will be going to CS for the Q44 and PERHAPS the Q12 and Q27. Also the Orion 7s are supposed to go to QV but I can see those going to CS and the 500 series will be dumped into QV. Stay tuned!!!
We will soon see.
#521 Q46
Please don't say that, Ridgewood is already miserable with these hand-downs that we just got dumped with.
Aren't all the 4000's series buses supposed to be retired by the end of the year. Just think of it this way. In ten years you could say that you got to ride the last RTS's.
I'm a UP Guy. The two options I get on the B3 is either a NOVA suburban or 4000 series RTS. I rearly see anything else running on the B3. I can see the B3 from my kitchen window.
The NOVA's although new are terrible when crowded which is all the time because the B3 is never on schedule. I usually prefer the 4000 series with all its rattles
Okay, first the Q12 and Q27 are not getting artics. The Q27 is too tight around Luke Pl into 216th St in Bayside Hills. No Way! The Q12 could but its termintation in Little Neck could slow that down.
Ray
The Orion7's are for QV Only!
The Artics would run on the Q44 Line and sometimes on the Q20A/B Line as well.
The Q12 could see them but with the # of Orions being kciked off the Q44 and Q20A/B Lines would be for the Q12 but it might be possable.
The Q27,NOW DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! I think the turn into QCC is a bit of a problem and I don't think the QCC Bus Stop is long enough for a 60 Foot Artic Bus. Could be good for the Q27 LTD but the Queens Village LIRR Bus Terminal itself might not be able to handle artics good.
The Q46 relly needs artics badly! My mom sometimes have to wait up to 15 Minutes for a Q46 to Kew Gardens at 168 St because alot of Q46 Buses are PACKED and they skip 168 St alot. Same thing happins in the AM going to 168 St at the Courthouse Stop but she try's go get it at 78 Ave(Starting point of the Q46).
Also the MTA should put Reverse Peak LTD Q46's too
The Q46 (my route passing by SJU) does need artics, which is why the DOB, in some brainlock, allocated some Orion 6 (like those in MV and MCH) to this route. Maybe if the Q30 or Q31 went to JAM, then LTDs could go on the 46 in reverse direction.
Well, if you spotted it then the transfer did happen. Well, lets see the current roster of the 1995/1996 Queens Orions AFAIK.
QV-505-521,526,611-617,619-623,625-630
CS-400,401,404,425,452-456,522-525,527-580,618,624,631-680
I spotted 618 earlier in the day on the Q30 or Q31
Oh, so it made its way back to QV.
There were no QV buses that got scrapped. Just ask Brooklyn Division.
In a move that would drive DaRidgewoodBusBuff nuts, QV has received 6 more Orion V's from Casey Stengel--522(w/Balios orange destination signs), and 524-528. In exchange, the following buses were shipped out:
4141 to FLA
4330-4332 to UP
4333-4334 to JAM then 4214, 4215 and 4217 JAM to FLA.
QV is now left with 4336, 4340, 4429 as their only 1986 RTS's.
Mark
AWW MAN, now I could add 4 more 1985 GM's to be with 4116; 4141,4214,4215 & 4217 just great now I have to see these probable clunkers on the B41 and other routes for a while. When does the misery stop for the Brooklynites, hey Caine824 add 4330,4331 & 4332 to the UP fleet along with 3962,3969 & 3970. Well Ridgewood & Caine, add FB to the list of recieving hand me downs as of late. Well, I'm gonna enjoy it while it lasts.
Now, lets welcome 4141,4214,4215,4217 & 4330-4332 to the RTS Hand Me Down/Retiremet center!
Hey Flatbush, you might get lucky. FLA might not even use the 4200's just like Fresh Pond did with the 3902 and 3951. :)
Those buses were in pretty good shape last time I saw them in JAM but you never know ;-). Nope, its gonna run just like the JUNKED 4200's from KB did in FP; I think someone saw our rants and is doing this on purpose to GET US Brooklynites! See what we keep telling the doubters, this is NOT A JOKE why did they choose UP,FP & FLA to send the old RTS's to, I tell ya we get hit with the old hand me downs disproportionately to other divisions.
The Brooklyn Division is the worst when it comes to getting dumped with hand-downs, AND THAT's A FACT! We always get nothing but old rejects. Only ENY and JG have it good, while Fresh Pond, Ulmer Park and Flatbush keeps suffering. I'm losing my patience(actually I lost it 2 years ago after FP got dumped with those 4600's/4700's), I'm tired of this unfair treatment.
Here's a good example. FP in 1999 had an average fleet age of about 7 years(not bad). Now its 2003 and guess what? The average age is now around 11 years! It's just ridiculous. So from 1999-2003, Fresh Pond's fleet age went up almost 4 years exactly! The bottom line, Brooklyn gets treated the worst when it come to buses.
I wouldn't say Flatbush us suffering at all. They have a great fleet of new buses. A couple of old ones added to their fleet is not going to change anything.
Since I 've been working at Fresh Pond for the past month, I have seen 8 usable buses transferred in and 5 F.P. buses scrapped. (3919, 3921, 4880, 4881 and 4884). That's only 3 more old buses added to their current fleet with more to be scrapped very soon. It's really not as bad as you guys make it sound.
BIG AL
But, you've gotta to admit, Fresh Pond's average age fleet has skyrocketed from 1999-2003, and it's still going up. I'm very dissappointed that we have to be treated this way.
I understand your point. New buses are very close to coming in so NYCT can make transfers among depots, and these buses are needed not only to replace the ones you mentioned, but in the past few months FP has scrapped a few 4600/4700's. While those 8 newcomers are a temporary step backwards, these are simply replacing the ones you and I mentioned above. From reports I have, 4552 and 4832, while old, run rather well despite their ages. While I am not estatic about old RTS' at FP ultimately being replaced with not as old RTS' with new engines, FP can only use RTS' so I am resigned to that fact. When Maspeth depot is constructed and operational in a few years, maybe then we'll see some newer stuff in this neighborhood. In fairness to the TA however, we all know they keep their buses cosmetically clean. The average rider has no idea how old the buses actually are. We all know some old buses run better, have better heat, better a/c than some of the newer ones.
Flatbush depot don't got it that bad like Fresh Pond and Ulmer Park does BUT FB has its good share of Hand Me Downs. Sheesh, 11 years is the average age oh dear; OH NO that means FP's avg fleet age is almost as old as Green Bus Lines avg fleet age :-0!
Damn, I knew in wouldn't end with only Fresh Pond getting old hand-downs but now FLA and UP have to suffer with more. I swear, Brooklyn gets no mercy.
what about 4335, 4484, 4499, and 4501 also in QV? Back to the main message, I ride QV all the time, as I go to school at St. John's, but I can't believe that 4141 was brought out of retirement (and that FLA got some ex-KB crap, albeit from JAM). WHAT, Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst have more 1986s dumped on them, on top of the three 1985 ex-QVs. This is for the Queens bus talkers. Are they converting QV into an Orion depot to be completed with the arrival of the Orion 6 low-floors?
Is this what QV gives UP for taking 9286-9290, and 9292-9294 , w/ 9285 and 9291 going to JAM (even though suburbans, would be better than the crap that QV just gave to UP)?
Also, it seems that DOB doesnt care about any depots other than ENY (could it because that is TA HQ)? and JG, which is becoming CNG.
When are we dumping these horrid experiment-gone-wrong 7000's? I cannot BELIEVE they are repowering these things!
Do you think they'll stay in QV until they are scrapped in *2015* or make their way to Fresh Pond beforehand?
;-)
Someone obviously thought that they could duplicate the success that the MTA enjoyed with the Blitz GMC's by rebuilding GM-RTS buses. In the private sector, that person would be either on the unemployment line or in jail for costing his company millions. In the TA, he probably got a lucrative promotion.
The 7000/7500's blow!
Mark
Any more 7000 series repowers other than the 7004?
#7004 Q46
I knew I wasnt seeing things when I saw 4214 on the B44 Saturday evening. She was at Eastern Pkwy and Nostrand Ave.
Da Beastmaster
It had Flatbush stickers already? I'll be looking out for 4141,4214,4215 & 4217 on the B41 and other FB routes in the future.
#4330 to #4332 to Ulmer Park???? Man, we do get !@#$%^&*( royally!!
WHAT NEXT WE GET THE 4400'S FROM ENY
3969 - B6 - LOCAL
Yeah, if old buses don't go to Fresh Pond to die, then it goes to Ulmer Park. Brooklyn is where buses R.I.P(rot in pieces).
At least you won't see them today with all of this snow.
You know my saying; Brooklyn division is the Hand Me Down/Retirement Center! 8-)
Today, did my usual routine on Friday going to Pizzeria(its close to Myrtle/Wyckoff). On Palmetto street, I saw this guy getting arrested. The cops were right there in front of the newsstand. I were standing right there. But I'm not sure what all of this was about. I'm not suprised, I've seen this in Brooklyn a couple of times already.
Anywayz, I started my trip with the B13, and rode 9172. Thank God the B13 is Nova dominated. I was Palmetto St. looking at some buses and here's what I saw:
B13: 9148, 9172(best thing in the B13), 5055.
B20: 8005
B26: 3997(I feel bad for the people who got this), 4744
B52: 4698, 4704, 4665, 9185
B54: 8011, 9158(I think)
Q55: 4379(how sad, this bus passed by my place on Cooper Av.),4720, 4738, 8168, 9150, 9571, 5073.
Q58: 4694, 8160
I also saw 4380(with that damn black thing in the back) Not in service.
After watching these buses(and eating my pizza) I took the 9571 home.
B13- RTS #9172
Q55- RTS #9571
Please explain in excruciating detail, what is SO BAD about 3997? It's as (in)famous as the late great PA1746 of 2000.
You should've rode 3997 on the B26-I sure would've. I like riding the older buses.
3997 has a faded # board in the rear, leans to 1 side and sluggish.
My question is what is this black thing on the back of 4380? Has the rear Destination sign disappeared? Bumper?
PA1746-boy does that bring back memories. Back in 98 I rode that bus on the Q17.
#4380 Q55
#1746 Q17-OLD SCHOOL!
Oh, what meant by "the black thing in the back" is that triangular part at the back window(where the depot logo is at). On the most pre-1990 RTS's its white, but on some of them(like 4380) its black.
It's called the "pork chop" panel, my boy.
BIG AL
Oh that's called the 'pork chop' and from you're description, this bus never got another repaint since 1996 at least.
And why in hell is he sending me 20 e-mails about buses in California??!!
BIG AL
BIG AL,
That is Eddie Anthony from California! He has his own website focusing on the LACMTA and surronding areas of Los Angeles.
Ray
And is also a TransiTALK Member!
My mistake there! He is a Transitalk member! Sorry Eddie and Trevor!
Ray
For the longest time alot of people thought #1000 was a 1997 model, its not, I rode #1000 and saw the builders plate and it states the bus was built in June of 1996, the same for #1001 as well. Both of these units don't have retarders either.
Jason
#1000 M23 Run 24
Correct, these we're the demos for NYC in 1996.
So it is 1000 AND 1001 that are 1996 models?
Yes, everything else 1002-1109 are 1997 Artics. 1000 & 1001 were the demos.
#1070-1109 are 1998 models, not 1997. #1070-1109 have Luminator LED flip-dot signs, 1000-1069 do not. An I was told that 1000 IS a 1997, not a 1996 and that 1001 is the only 1996 artic there is...
Wrong info, look at the MFG Plate June 1996.
Both of them don't have retarders either.
Perhaps they still consider it a '97 model. My Honda was built in Sept '01, but it's very much an '02 model - since the model year for autos changes at the end of the summer.
Wayne
I was under the impression that the only '96 NFI D60HF was #1001. It's the one I remember seeing quite often during that evaluation period.
Wayne
According to the NFI production list, 1000 and 1001 are S/N 16517 and 16518, respectively, delivered in 1996.
Much isn't happening in WMATAland, but there were some observations made this week. First off, still waiting for 2460-63 to arrive, still waiting for the bike racks to be placed on the Neoplans, Royal buses and others who don't have them, and waiting to see who WMATA formally chooses for their new CNG buses (should be anytime now, especially if they want them by 2004), even though we have a clue on what they are, anyway here are some observations.
1)2181 and 2198 from Northern have no bike racks
2)2026 (Four Mile Run) and 2402(Bladensburg) have digital cameras
3)The following buses were spotted with the 30th anniversary stickers:
Landover: 4037, 8815 and 9703; Northern: 2198
Right now nothing is happening but later this year, with fares rising, Ride On getting new buses, possibly DASH getting new buses, and the formal annoucement of WMATA's new CNGs things should pick up and in 2004 things will really get going with 3 new subway stations opening and the bus route reroutes that will come. Also when the new CNGs come into Four Mile Run and Bladensburg, major bus shifting will come and the possibility of more new buses coming, should make for an interesting year.
I saw Arlington Division bus 4385 with the 30th Anniversary sticker.
I haven't really seen much out of the ordinary lately either. Other than seeing 9313 and 9314 out of Royal last week.
WMATA or any of the local transits might not have anything going on right now, least we have Baltimore MTA and the awaiting of the Neoplan low floors going into service. I also spotted 5320 on the S2 near Federal Triangle Tuesday night and 5321 on the S2 Friday morning.
I wonder if Fairfax Connector, or The Bus have any new stuff coming in. I am pretty sure that Fairfax Connector will buy Orions and I hope that if The Bus does buy some new buses 1)They will be something along the lines of a Neoplan, NABI, New Flyer, El Dorado, or even Orion (Orion II need not apply), and Gillig or 2)buy more Thomas SLFs. NO MORE CRAPPY VAN BUSES OR CHAMPIONS PLEASE.
Connector already got new buses last year, some 35' Orion V's...so no go here :-/
DASH is due to get some new Orions at the end of the year, it'll probably be mid-04 before they go into service because they have to wait for inspection which is real slow around here (the last Orion V's came in November 2000 but weren't in service until like March '01, maybe later than that).
I agree! I haven't seen much either, but I am seeing the Neoplans on the S2/S4 more often these days. It looks like Landover has most of the Orion VI's. I like the VI's because they're so fast, but on occasion when I ride the F4/F6 I can't seem to find a Flxible unless I pass up a few Orions. Yesterday I saw 5209 and and 5308 together on the 70 and it would've been a great picture as both buses have no advertisements on them - too bad I was driving and couldn't get to my digital camera.
Wayne
I like buses that have no advertisements on the outside. WMATA have to make money somehow.
Landover might get the rest of the Orion VIs, when Four Mile Run gets their CNGs either later this year or most likely next year.
Well, late this year and next year things will heat up so if we are patient, good things will come.
Yeah I know. I understand, but it's always nice to see the buses without ads on them.
Wayne
WMATA needs to take a lesson from Ride-On.
Ride-On doesn't need commercial advertisements, they get our taxes instead.
I saw Orion V 4320 with new euro-style mirrors, must've been a replacement...don't think it would be a retrofit.
Well I'm off to see CIVIS tomorrow, if anyone else is going I'll see you there but I probably won't recognize you.
From a Poster i read onboard a Ride On Orion I, the fare increase will apply for Ride-On, with the addition of the 20-trip ticket and the 2-week pass increasing to $13 each. A public forum will be held in the executive building in Rockville about the proposal. I did not note the date/time though.
Lately, I've been getting E-mails from a couple of individuals asking me bustalk type questions. Although I do enjoy talking about buses, I am already bombarded with too much junk e-mail everyday and do not need more e-mail in my bin pertaining to topics discussed on bustalk.
I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY PRIVATE E-MAIL QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO BUSTALK. That is the purpose of the forum. Any question that is asked on the forum that I know the answer to, I will gladly answer, assuming I know it. If I do not jump into a certain thread, then that means I have no knowledge pertaining to the topic and therefore can not answer the question. So I ask certain individuals to please stop E-mailing me your questions about NYCT such as when Maspeth depot is opening and MABSTOA criteria. Just post your question on bustalk and it WILL be handled by anybody who knows the answer, including myself.
Thank you.
BIG AL
Just block the e-mail addy.
Big Al, do you check your e-mail at work? You should remind people that the MTA, NJT, SEPTA, nor any other transportation agency or company are fond of sites like these. There are news tidbits that get here before they are announced and these agencies like to control everything. Therefore, too many bus related e-mails from the "outside" can get someone in LOTS of trouble.
I'm sure Big Al does not have access to the world wide web while he is working just like I don't since I move trains for a living. Transit workers are accused by the public of not being productive enough, but I can assure you we don't access BusTalk or SubTalk while on the clock! NYCT does have an internal system at dispatchers offices for example which is quite informative yet unfortunately not availiable on the "outside".
If you don't want e-mails sent to you via Bustalk then take your e-mail address out of the box under your password [you have to post w/o the e-mail for it not to show up until you've decided to put it back in; in other words the box should be blank]. Put the e-mail address on your handle by request only, that's all problem solved 8-).
It's hard to explain however, certain type of E-mails like people who want to get in touch with me for various reasons to discuss something is ok, but a couple of individuals are just sending me typical bustalk questions like the ones 'BUSFAN' ask which are the type of e-mails I would rather not see in my E-mail bin.
BTW, like Bill said, I only access my e-mail from my home computer. I would not, nor do I even have the time if I wanted to, access bustalk from the job.
BIG AL
Well you should block your e-mail from bus talk. People on here think you are a know it all. Maybe they want more answers.
I have hear recentlt that the ENY Central Maintenance Facility will be converted into a depot next year when the painting facility is moved to Zegera.
If this is true, how many more buses will the second floor of ENY will handle.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
BusFan just chill out! You never contribute to this board at all, nor SubTalk, stop asking all these annoying questions.
He does it to see which one of us he annoys the most!
Any information is greatly appreciated.
The B8 has been running out of Gleason since September 2002.
David
The B8 has been proudly running at Jackie Gleason since September 2002, Where have you been? LOL!
-Where have you been? LOL!
Burning in hell. GO Away Busfan!!!
LOLOL!!
Uh oh GUESS WHO'S BACK! Anyway, the B8 has been in JG since September 2002.
Oh man,not you again!I thought you took a extensive vacation to the Bahamas or something! -groans- The B8 has been running from Gleason since last September,what have you been doing these last 5 months to not know that?
did the same over on subtalk....... askes questions ,steps back and wait for responses... never adds anything to the board.... hummmm.
I agree.
[...asks questions, steps back and wait for responses... never adds anything to the board]
More accurately, he...
1. Looks for things that have already been discussed,
2. Formulates a question to sound as if he first thought of the topic,
3. Asks the question
4. Steps back and waits for responses
Since when does questions ends in periods?
Da Beastmaster
He has been trying to think up more original questions to ask us. I have one myself. Does the third rail of the subway have any other uses besides powering trains? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Dont start please cause to be perfectly honest what he's doing is big time annoying.
He did that before he took that long ass vacation.
His "vacation" was probably at a facility similar to where "Rain Man" was living.
''I can drive a car''...''I'm UH EXCELLENT DRIVER''....
I like to believe I'm a good driver even though I've never even driven a car before...nor a bus for that matter.
Heh, guess who's back. Well, this took me by surprise. I'm sure Big Al is glad to see you here.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Whatever happens at East New York will take time. When it's finished (IF it happens at all) an assessment will be made as to which routes should run out of which depots and the appropriate transfer(s) will be made.
It's WAY too early to be talking about this.
David
He's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!
#1979 X1
Don't get excited. It doesn't exist. I came up with the idea because there are no direct transit links, either bus or subway, between Manhattan's major transportation facilities i.e. Penn Station, Port Authority Bus Terminal, Grand Central Terminal and La Guardia Airport. In my travels around the U.S. and Europe I've always noticed that you can access a particular city's airport from it's main transportation hub by either bus or some form of rail link. The M60 does serve LaGuardia but you have to go to the Upper West Side in order to get it. New York Airport Service does run express buses from all 3 transportation centers to La Guardia Airport but it costs $10. I was thinking more along the lines of a local transit bus originating at Penn Station and terminating at LaGuardia. Here's the routing I came up with; The western terminus of the M61 would be at Penn Station on 8th Avenue just south of 34th Street. The line would proceed north on 8th Avenue to 42nd Street thus serving the Port Authority Bus terminal. It would then proceed eastbound along 42nd Street and stop across from Grand Central Terminal. The line would then turn north on Third Avenue and proceed to 59th Street where it would proceed eastbound across 59th Street and cross the Queensboro Bridge. Once in Queens the M61 would proceed aong Northern Boulevard to Steinway Street. The line would head north on Steinway Street to Astoria Boulevard where it would then follow the current routing of the M60 into the airport. Since the line is quite long I would have a terminus at the Marine Air Terminal in order to give the driver a break. On the return to Penn Station the line would loop through the airport a second time and then rejoin Astoria Boulevard to Steinway Street. It would head south on Steinway Street to Northern Boulevard and west on Northern Boulevard back across the Queensboro Bridge. Once back in Manhattan, the line would proceed west on 60th Street to Lexington Avenue. It would then continue south on Lexington to 42nd Street. At 42nd Steet the line would head westbound past Grand Central and past Port Authority to 9th Avenue. It would then proceed south on 9th Avenue to 30th Street where it would turn and head eastbound to 8th Avenue and turn back north on 8th to the terminus near Penn Station.
There you have it. Do you think it's practical or too long and too slow? Your comments and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Believe it or not there is a bus from the Port Authority Bus Terminal to La Guardia Airport. It is currently operated by New York Airport Bus which is owned by Private Bus Lines which operates in Brooklyn.
I believe that this was one of the routes that were operated by the old Carey Transportaion which is now out of business.
Thank You
I mentioned them in the post. In all probability they would lobby the hardest against such a route since it would cut into their business.
Why should the MTA subsidise a bus line since one already exixist.
I have taken it once or twice. It runs a regular schedule and it is generally well liked by the public who use it.
Sounds Good. Limit stops to Penn Station, PA Bus Terminal, Grand Central, Queens/Queensboro Plaza (Transfer to 7,E,F,G,N,R,V,W, & Buses) Marine Terminal & Main Terminals Only.
But Leave The M60 Operating.
You're probably correct in saying that the service should run as a limited. Running as a local would make for a long journey to LGA.
Running it as a limited stop service would also make it too long of a trip for those people geting on at port authority.
From 125th Street/Broadway bring the M60 North to George Washington Brige Bus Station at 178th St/Broadway. theres no need to go to 116th st/Broadway?
Good idea. I hadn't thought of the GWB Bus Terminal. Doing that would connect all of Manhattan's transit facilities to LGA.
The M60 originally terminated at 116th, serving Columbia University. It was extended to 106th, I believe at the request of the large youth hostel at 104th and Amsterdam. Rerouting the M60 to the GWBBS would make it less convenient to reach those two points, and I suspect that most passengers bound for the GWBBS would opt for a quicker ride on the A train from 125th even if the bus did run all the way there.
[The M60 originally terminated at 116th, serving Columbia University. It was extended to 106th, I believe at the request of the large youth hostel at 104th and Amsterdam.]
The M60's first Manhattan terminal was 125th & Lenox. It was later extended to serve Columbia University via 125th, Amsterdam Avenue, 120th, Claremont Avenue, 116th, to stand on Broadway. Of course, the NIMBYs on Claremont objected to 2 buses an hour (while the dozens of trucks delivering stuff to Barnard College were quite acceptable). After a year or so of protests and petitions, NYCT extended to route to 106th Street.
It's a good idea, Dan. The MTA would and should consider that. What depot would the M61 come from? Michael J. Quill? Maybe you can put an Orion Suburban or a Nova Suburban on that route. Nice job!
Ray
Thanks Ray. Quill would be the most logical depot for the line to originate out of. Using Suburbans would provide a more comfortable ride for customers of the line.
Sounds like an excellent idea. One thing I'd add is to make it a make it a Limited stop route. I think it may actually make too much sense for the TA to consdier such a route.
Wayne
Okay, consider it done. The M61 will run as a Limited to and from LGA. Hopefully someday the TA will consider providing a direct link to LGA from Midtown.
An interesting idea, but I respectfully disagree.
Traffic can be heavy all around the city but it's at its worst in midtown Manhattan. Riding a bus across 42nd Street is hardly a reliable way to catch a flight. The current transit routes to LGA all begin outside the CBD but are connected the subway to the rest of the city. I think that model makes sense.
Furthermore, the notion of a transportation hub is overrated in a city like NYC. NYC has 468 subway stations, each a miniature transportation hub, each with a link to at least one of the existing airport buses (in almost all cases a direct link). The big hubs like PABT and the railroad stations are relevant primarily to those coming from outside the city -- precisely the least likely people to use a city bus to the airport.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for your input. Your opinion is appreciated and has been respectfully noted. The route, as I laid it out, would take a long time to reach LGA. Like the M60, the M61 isn't designed to get you to LGA in a hurry. People who need to reach the airport in a hurry are more than likely to catch a cab or take one of New York Airport Service's express buses. The idea behind the M61 was to provide an inexpensive, albeit slow, way for people who aren't in a hurry and who can't afford a cab or the express bus to reach LGA from the midtown area. Whether the line would attract sufficient patronage to justify it's existence remains to be seen.
I disagree with your premise.
Depending on the point of origin, the M60 can be a very quick route to LaGuardia. From points along its route, it's often not much slower than a cab (depending on how many stops it has to make). From points further south in Manhattan, the subway is often the fastest way to get to 125th Street, Astoria, or Jackson Heights -- and once there it's a relatively short bus ride to the airport.
(Incidentally, I have proposed an idea that would speed up M60 service tremendously. At peak times, run it as an airport-only route: trips to the airport would have no dropoffs until the airport and trips from the airport would have no pickups once away from the airport. A separate route would be instituted to accomodate local traffic between Astoria and Harlem, perhaps an extension of the M100. Or just ignore the local traffic -- on my one M60 ride that had a lot of local passengers, most of them boarded through the rear doors and didn't pay. Those who don't pay have no say.)
In this age of free intermodal transfers, it makes little sense to plan a new bus route without considering that most of its potential ridership would be better off using the subway to get past the most traffic-prone part of the trip before stepping onto the bus.
It's an interesting idea nonetheless. Thanks for posting it. (I will continue to use the M60 in any case -- I live a mile from its south terminal.)
I like your idea on speeding up service on the M60. In the past the M35 was extended to Astoria during rush hours. Perhaps it would be a better choice to extend instead of the M100. I've always felt that the M60 should originate at 96th Street and Broadway. It could possibly attract more ridership if it started from there. Do you feel that the RTS has the adequate capacity for the route or would articulateds be better suited for the M60?
Thanks.
I thought of extending the M35 instead of the M100, but the crowd boarding in Astoria seemed to be getting off all across 125th, but the M35 doesn't go very far across. (Perhaps it could be extended in both directions.)
A southward extension of the M60 would be great, but the problem is deciding where to stop. If 96th, why not further, to 86th? Or 72nd? Or Columbus Circle? Maybe even Times Square or (dare I say it) Penn Station? I've long held that the M104 could use a limited, and an extended M60 could provide it. (The airport-only rule would only be in effect once on 125th.) OTOH, the resulting route would be very long.
As an occasional M86 (and M79) rider, I'm not a fan of the artics. While they save money for NYCT by allowing fewer buses to handle the same number of passengers, the resulting dwell times can be very long. I'd be less critical if NYCT purchased buses with an extra exit door in the middle and perhaps even an extra-wide entranceway with two fareboxes. Also, illegally parked cars at bus stops are more likely to block artics, and airports are full of illegally parked cars. I'd keep the RTSs.
Artics would make sense on an airport route, considering that there may be lots of bags on board.
A Limited stop route from midtown to La Guardia Airport could work.
The problem will be traffic congestion on the East River crossings especially rush hours.
How about this for a new route.
A Limited Stop route from Queens Plaza(E,G,R,V lines).Queensboro Plaza(7,N,W lines) and the 21st Street/Queensboro (F line) subway station non stop to LaGuardia Airport similar to the service that Queens Surfice currently operates to Rikers Island
The cost can be $1.50 between subway and bus with the metro card.
The advantage is that such a bus route will not be effected by traffic congestion on the East River crossings.
BTW-In the early 1990's after the JFK Express was discontinued by the TA a bus/subway route known as the QT Line was tried but was discontinued due to low ridership, I believe that it cost $5.00 for the bus plus the subway fare. It was a coordinated route which operated from the 21st Street/Queensbridge Station which was the terminal of the Q Line at that time. The bus was operated by Triboro which used special buses that had racks.
Any commnets
Thank You
OVER THESE 3-4 YEAR WE LOSE ALL THE GOOD BUSES #8340-8350 & 5075-5099 BOTH TOOK AWAY FROM US I AM NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE 1996 NOVA ENY TOOK FROM US WE SHOLUD GET THOSE 8400/8500 FROM JG WE NEED THEM THE MOST WE HAVE THOSES 1996 NOVA EXPRESS BUT THEY CAN ONLY BE USED ON THE B4, B64, B74 AND THEY JUST GAVE USE MORE JUNK WITH THOSES 3900'S & 4300'S
4755 - B6 LTD
4791 - B6 LOCAL
4788 - B36
UP sure hasn't been the same since they lost the B8 (split w/ENY to JG, back to ENY soon?) in what must be a blockheaded decision (UP and JG would be reasonable, but ENY (with its depot on the other side of the borough)? Also, they haven't been the same since they lost the B82 to ENY (my home route). Should QV displace any post-1990 RTS, not including the remans, those buses would greatly help UP. Also, the taking over of Command would help as well.
The TA would love to operate the B-68 and B-82 out of Ulmer Park.
The problem there is just no room because of the 3 express routes which currently operate there.
When and if the the TA takes over Command bus routes you may see more changes at Ulmer Park.
Some possibilities:
1-Send the x-27 back to Jackie Gleason. Since the TA will now have some express CNG's(the current Command fleet) this may now be feasible. If the X-27 returns to Gleason then the B-68 may return to Ulmer Park. This depends on what the TA will do with the Command lines.
2-With the B-82 i doubt that it will return to Ulmer Park even with the Command take over. If the B-82 moves it will be sent to the current Command terminal
Please note that this is my speculation only
Thank You
1. Possible, but not likely. The CNG express buses now operated by Command have 42-43 seats each. NYCT's MCI express buses seat 57. It's more likely that NYCT will buy new high-capacity express buses for the by-then-ex-DOT express routes and relegate the current DOT express fleet (the RTS and Orion buses, at any rate) to local service (look at the seats -- they aren't the wide reclining high-back seats NYCT has, and they're not on platforms (as far as I know, anyway), so standee flow should be better than on NYCT's express RTSs that are now used in local service). Besides, there are maintenance efficiencies in keeping the MCIs in as few depots as possible.
2. That's what I'd do if I were in charge -- there, or leave it in East New York and move something else.
David
David,
Good point !!
Do you know if the DOT has any new buses on order at this time for its routes.
Thank You
As far as I am aware, DOT has no buses on the way and has not solicited bids for any recently.
David
[As far as I am aware, DOT has no buses on the way and has not solicited bids for any recently.]
Some months back, there were reports that NYCDOT had ordered some D4000 (not D4500) MCI Cruisers for NY Bus Service, but I haven't heard anything further about these buses recently.
Welcome to the reality of Brooklyn depots, home of the Hand Me Downs/Retirement center of the older RTS's. Man, UP was NEVER the same when they lost the B8 [my home route], the B68 and B82. About the 1996 suburbans, its not true what you just said, EVERY route but the B6 sees these buses on the regular. Don't worry, the other Brooklyn depots just got hit with more junk buses too[read the related threads], have you seen what FP got recently; 2 of the 10 hand me downs they recieved [3902 and 3951] never even gave service in Brooklyn b/c the engines just went kaput. We in Brooklyn always get the garbage and its real frustrating.
If this is your first post, welcome to the board. Brooklyn is the last stop for old RTS's before they go to scrap. Ulmer Park, Fresh Pond and Flatbush collectively get dumped on. It is a matter of debate on who gets dumped on most, yet all 3 depots have more than their fair share of buses which are retirement-in-waiting.
Sounds like you're a new poster; welcome to Bustalk NOVARTS 9090, hope you enjoy it here. Man, us Brooklynites feel the pain of getting junk handed down to us; you have Bustalker Caine824 who reps UP so you got a Ulmer Park ally and us Brooklynites[myself,DaRidgewoodBusBuff,ENY Nova5205,Acela Express2005, etc.] who see the nature of the Hand Me Downs.
Will you guys stop this complaining about the hand me downs!!!
Think back a few years back when SE Queens was getting dumped with everything from 1700s to 4400s.
I remember QV was dumped on with 2200s 2600s 3200s 1 or 2 3600s 3800s 3900s a few 4000s 4100s 4300s 4400 and 4501.
Jamaica was getting junk as well. Remember 3030 3033 and 4003?
They also had 1700s 3900s 4100s a few 4200s 4300s and 4500s.
Now that QV has almost got rid of the old junky buses-you guys are complaining? At least you have buses. In due time you guys will be breathing a sigh of relief just like QV is.
All QV has to do is get rid of those 7000s and 8300 repowered buses and they're pretty much set.
So please deal with what you get...for now. It will get better in due time!
#9365 Q46
THANX 4 THE WELCOME TO ALL MY BROOKLYN DIVISION BESIDE JG & FLAA WHO HAVE MANHATTAN DIVISION FLEET WE NEED NEW BUSES SOON
7513 - B6-LTD
7529 - B6-LTD - TOO EARLY
9099 - B6 LOCAL
I would like to speculate here and post some possible changes if and when the MTA takes over the DOT routes.
1-The TA will take over the Command Depot as well as it routes
2-I believe that the Green Lines Q-35 ,Queens Surfice Q-67 and the Triboro Coach Q-39 routes will also bew given to the Brooklyn Division
The Command Depot will become the Brooklyn Divisions 6th operating depot and will retain the following Command routes B-103,BM-1,BM-2,BM-4 and the BQM-1. The B-100 will be consolidated with the current B-2 route and be assigned to Flatbush Depot.
The following changes will happen to the current Brooklyn Division depots:
East New York-will lose the B-17,B-42 and B-82 to the new depot at the current Command facility. Since these routes can all be pull outs and pull in's it will be cost effective for the TA to do this.
East New York will receive the B-47 from Flatbush depot and the balance of the B-20 from Fresh Pond
Jackie Gleason-will lose the B-68 to Ulmer Park but will receive the x-27 from Ulmer Park in exchange. Gleason will also receive the B-48 from Fresh Pond.
Flatbush-As noted above the B-100 will be consolidated with the B-2 and remain in Flatbush. Flatbush will lose the B-47 to East New York but will receive the Q-35 from Green Lines
Ulmer Park-Will lose the x-27 to Gleason but will pick up the B-68 from Gleason as well as Command BM-3 route.
Fresh Pond-will lose the B-48 to Gleason and the B-20 to East New York but will pick up the Queens Surfice Q-67 and Triboro Coach's Q-39 and possibly the QM-24 Tribro route.
Again this is speculation only
Any comments
Thank You
How about the Q38,that would definately should be considered to operate out of FP(the middle of the route is Metro/FP)it can run on/off ala Q54.
Okay, I'm going to talk about my story on the Orions. I have a newsletter from 1994 talking about Orions will be delivered to the QV depot in January of 1995 and Jamaica depot in January of 1998. Obviously, that did not happen as the Orion Bus Industries went on stirke (according to bus operators I spoke to back then). In early 1995, I remember seeing bus #505 on the Q48 for the first time coming out of Roosevelt Av onto Main St. Then I saw bus #562 brnad new.
My point is this, since 2001 the QV depot has received buses #611-630, then buses #505-511, #515-521 in 2002 and then #513-514 and #523 and now #522 and #524-528. Oh, let's not forget buses #107, #144 and #154. Normally, I'd be exacted about this but I'm not. According to my bus operators from QV, they expressed anger back then. They are not happy now after speaking to them these past two weeks. One driver told me that they were racist (Orion Bus Industries). I agreed but then I quckly disagreed since in 1993, these buses were in the SOUTH BRONX! Bus #271 on the Bx55 and #316 on the Bx1. I remember those days.
So, will the MTA convert the QV depot into an all Orion depot like AMS, CS, CAS, MCH and YUK? Does this spell the end of the Novas?
This is my story! I use to live in Jamaica (Hillside Av/179th St) and I was waiting for the Orions on the Q1, Q30, Q43. Now, hear they are. Gee! Oh, I'm not mentioning any names from the QV depot...confidental!
Ray
yukon is not an all orion depot and has its share of junk buses as well as any other depot.
Before, I mentioned that this will not work. It might work now.
Combine bus routes Q11 and Q21 into one route along Woodhaven Blvd/Cross Bay Blvd. Q53 is the limited.
Make the Q60 limited and the Q40 local up to Queens Blvd and 48th St in Sunnyside.
Not bad. If I got that wrong, I do apologizes but they seem to be good ideas.
Ray
Ray,
To merge the Q-11 and Q-21 is not possible as the Q-11 already has two terminals on its south end(Hamilton Beach and Howard Beach)
The Q-21 and Q-53 merger makes more sense for the following reasons:
1-Both lines already terminate at Beach 116th Street(even though a block or two apart)
2-The Q-53 will still make no stops between Liberty Ave and Queens Blvd/63rd Drive
3-Not all Q-53 buses will have to make the current Q-21 stops at certin times of the day.
4-The added stops on the merged route will not require any significent running time increase.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
Actually, I came up with the idea of the Q60 becoming a LTD and extending the Q40 to run local via Queens Blvd to around 46 St.
Combining the Q11 with the 21 is not a wise move b/c then you'll give the 11 THREE southern terminals; the Q21 merging with the Q41 is much better since they overlap for a good stretch from Rockaway Blvd to 164 Av and gives passengers a option of avioding a transfer from the A and provides a one seat ride from the Rockaways to Jamaica.
Well we could eliminate one of the Q11 terminal's,the Hamilton Beach one.
The A train passes by 104St and I can clearly see bus stop signs that say Q11 when I ride through there and I think that terminal is useless since not to many people go there nor do I ever see too many people waiting for the bus either.
I know there was a similar thread in SubTalk, so I decided to bring it here in Bustalk. I'm making this thread stray away a little from all of this unfair Brooklyn Div. treatment.
What are your favorite places to stand and just watch buses all day?
Here's mine's:
1. Palmetto St/Myrtle/Wyckoff
2. Fresh Pond Depot
3. Willliamsburg Plaza
4. Fulton Mall
5. Jamaica Center
Also as a kid, I always loved watching buses out of my Grandmother 6th Floor apartment window, where I can see the B61 and get a decent view of the Manhattan Bridge, but its even better at night.
List your favorite places.
Valley Metro's Central Station
Phoenix Transit, Tempe Forsythe (Bolt/Tim)
Red, Blue, 0,3,7,8,10,12,15
College Avenue, Tempe
Phoenix Transit, ATC, Tempe Forsythe (BOLT/TIM),
Scottsdale Forsythe, Mesa Forsythe)
Yellow, 30,44,56,62,65,66,72,76,81,92, Flash Foward/Back, Neighborhood Flash & The Elusive Neoplan 4001
Metrocenter, Phoenix
Phoenix Transit, Laidlaw, Tempe Forsythe (Bolt/Tim)
Red, 27, 35, 90, 106, 122
Hey, I talk to a girl in Phoenix and hope to come down there some day. What's your fleet look like?
GM RTS-03 35xx & 45xx (Phoenix Transit, ATC & Laidlaw)
TMC RTS-04 44xx & 45xx (Phoenix Transit, ATC & Laidlaw)
New Flyer LF40 37xx & 40xx (Phoenix Transit, ATC & Laidlaw)
NABI 40ft LF & 45ft Lf 60xx - 63xx
MANN Artic 1979-1980 Models 70xx (Phoenix Transit)
Neoplan 40ft LF 4001
El Dorado National 41xx - 4300 (Tempe Forsythe & Scottsdale Forsythe)
El Dorado National 29xx (Mesa Forsythe)
Gillig 30 Ft 9xx (Laidlaw)
I thought the MANN's and the RTS were gone? You mean they are still there?
The artics are down to 9 and the rts are mostly on the 44, 61, 72, 59, 60, 67, 80, 90, 106, 122, 138, 170. 186
Hey, is the RTS fleet still intact or are they being parceled off and on borrowed time?
I got a couple of places from each city I have lived in:
PHILADELPHIA:
Broad and Olney Station
Frankford and Bridge
69th st Terminal
NEW YORK CITY:
5th ave and 42nd st
Church St across from the WTC (in front of Century 21 store)
Parsons and Archer
Pelham Bay Park Station
WASHINGTON, DC :
the old Pentagon Terminal (pre 9-11-01)
Silver Spring Metro Station
Conneticut and K st NW
Shady Grove Station
Friendship Heights (old loop, and new STation)
Oh I forgot to include Market and Juniper (east side of City Hall).
The Pentagon tops my list too( the old one anyway). I used to park at Pentagon city Mall and walk down to the Pentagon around rush hour just to see the line up. Those were the days. Unfortunately bastards ruined that, as if it wasn't for 9/11, you could still stay around there and watch buses go by and take some pics.
I also enjoyed(for WMATA)
Silver Spring
Tyson's Corner Center(one)
Ballston
Friendship Heights
Minnesota Avenue
For the local privates
Tyson's Corner Transit Center(Fairfax Connector and WMATA)
Reston and Springfield (Fairfax Connector)
King Street and Van Dorn Street (WMATA, DASH and Fairfax Connector)
Wheaton (should have been up with the WMATA ones, Ride On)
Lakeforest Transit Center (Ride On)
Rockville station (Ride On and WMATA)
In Baltimore:
Mondawmin Mall
Pratt Street and Baltimore Street
so far
I also forgot an old WMATA spot, Rosslyn Station, before the Ballston Extension came on line. having most of Arlington's buses start there was a treat. Another long-gone spot was the old Federal Triangle loop at 13th and PA Ave NW.
Another good old spot to watch buses before the Addison Road and Green Line extension is Potomac Avenue. We use to go to Potomac Avenue to catch the train and always saw lots of buses. The 30s of course, V12, J12, Hs and F14 were some of the routes that went here.
Ride On & WMATA :
Silver Spring
Rockville
Shady Grove (plus Eyre route 991)
Lakeforest Mall Transit Center
White Flint (tons of Ride On routes plus WMATA busses deading to Montgomery.)
WMATA only:
Chinatown
Forgot about Shady Grove, especially the Route 355 side where the Q2 and the 55,59 are. Also forgot about Rockville Pike near Montgomery Garage and here's another good deadhead buses spot, Eads Street between the Pentagon and Four Mile Run garage. Tons of deadheading Four Mile Run buses, as well as (for now) PRTC buses.
Ok cool, here's some of my favorite spots to see buses, in no particular order.
Kings Plaza
Fulton Mall
Jamaica Center
Herald Square
In NYC some were...
West Farms Square
165th Street Terminal
169th & 179th-Hillside
Parsons-Archer
57th-Madison
34th & 5th
New Jersey
Hoboken Terminal
Newark-Penn Station
DC area
Silver Spring Metro
Friendship Heights Metro
Rockville Metro
Pratt Street-Baltimore
1. NJ 495 leading to the Lincoln Tunnel, both directions
2. 40th street entrance to the LT, where you can see buses coming from the upstairs PABT ramps as well as the long distance buses coming from 41st Street
3. North Bergen NJ - 90th and Bergenline at Nungessers
4. Newark Penn Station
5. the bus lot at Giants Stadium during a Giants or Jets home game
My's are.
Queens
Queens Blvd between Union Turnpike and 78 Ave
Kew Gardens Road where the Q10 Start/Ends
Union Turnpike at the corner of where Queens Blvd splits into KG Road
Queens Blvd and 71 Ave
Queens Plaza
Around Queens Center Mall
Along Queens Blvd between Woodhaven and Grand
Cross Bay Blvd and Liberty Ave and Woodhaven Blvd
Brooklyn
Myrtle/Wyckoff
Downtown Brooklyn
SI
Fingerboard Road and I-278 Service Road
SI Mall
SIFerry Terminal
Manhattan
57 st between 6 Ave and 3 Ave
PABT
around Penn Station
around Grand Central
Union Square
Times Square
WFC
around where WTC used to be
Along Water Street
SIFerry Terminal
Last night, I did. It was D40LF #4049 on the 4-Beechnut. I LOVE the 40-41xx New Flyers. Damn Metro for buying the inferior 28-29xx and 32-35xx buses.
Anyway, those 4000 series New Flyers sound sooooo beautiful. The best thing since the RTS. I love the way they sing when they de-accelerate. Kind of ghostly sometimes. I also like that metal on metal sound some make when they take off or the screaming, and even this constant hiss until "Spppf!" and then it's business as usual.
Too bad Metro decided to go with the ultra boring Cummins ISC engine. I believe these sport a voith transmission. I mean, the buses are fast, but damn are they boring as hell.
Well, maybe it hasn't sent chills in my body, but I love the SEPTA Neoplan 40ft 3000 series bus engine/transmission combination (both the normal ones and the "special" ones. I love the "normal" ones because the shifts between gears sound so "musical". I also love the "special" (I call them "turbo") Neos because when the bus takes off, the engine sounds so powerful that it feels like the bus is really going to take off! I loved riding one of those on the 125 on those highways in Valley Forge. That is how you use a 6v92TA engine!
Nowadays the bus engines of SEPTA are boring...maybe the most interesting on is those of those Dorados when it shifts into 3rd gear, because it seems like it kinda launches into speed then...it's hard to describe.
Long live the Neos!
Are those the Neo's with that beautiful sound in first gear? It's a real whining sound then it shifts into second and the sound tones down quite a bit.
I love riding those buses!
Chuck Greene
Well, which ones are you talking about? The one with the short amount of time on first grear or the longer amount of time on first gear? I agree with you though, they sound beautiful...I'll miss them a lot when they are gone from the SEPTA fleet.
I think it's the ones with the "short" time in first gear. I love that whining sound.
I wonder which fleet numbers they would be?
Get ready for 8 to 16 inches of snow tomorrow! A day off from work anyone?
Chuck Greene
We have 10 RTS's that came with the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. I love that engine so much... When weather permits, and I have no one on board, often times I'll turn off the A/C so that I can listen to the purring of the s50 engine.
We've recently begun the process of converting 10 6v92's to the Series 50 engine. 4801 was the test bus, and there were a few kinks, but it's worked out well so far. That bus FLIES... purrs so nicely... I always try to get an s50 bus when I can :)
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
You like the S50? In an RTS, there's nothing like the sound of the lovely 6v92TA. I love the way the RTS starts that scream as it goes into the higher gears, and in some of them, they start that roar. Beautiful. Sometimes it's so loud the windows and seats vibrate. There's nothing like riding an RTS that's so loud that the whole bus feels like it's going to shake apart. You can't get that experience with a Series 50.
In the D40LF's however, the Series 50 is a God send. Perhaps it would be nice if Disney got rid of the LFS and replaced them with New Flyers. The RTS and the New Flyer mesh like the RTS and Flxibles did in the 80's.
Also, I really want to come back to Disney World. I went in the 6th grade and I was shocked when I saw the RTS buses. I wasn't into the RTS buses too much at that time but I REALLY wanted to ride one, especially the ones with the "truck sounding engines" as I called them. It seemed as if there were alot more than 10 of them. I hated riding the stupid monorail. And then, the teacher PROMISED we would take the bus, but then we took that stupid ferry back instead! Ugh!
How much would it be to get into Disney World now? I don't want to do anything but ride the buses anyway. That's worth the price of admission alone.
Pretty much all of our other busses have the 6v92TA in them... some sound better than others. We have a few where the turbo whine is a bit louder than normal, and those are usually the best sounding.
I wouldn't mind if Disney would replace the LFS with a New Flyer D40LF... Never ridden or driven one, though. But heck, anything is better than the LFS.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
I like the sound of a NYCT S50 equipped New Flyer D60. They really sound great when riding up front, and having that engine note as background music. :-D !!
Yeah, I think I've ridden the worse bus ever...this is SEPTA's 2033, a Ford Pheonix.
Well, I was riding it to the mall on the 95, and I was sitting on the left side of the bus. As the bus flew over bumps, I heard the familiar shaking, and thought it was just the cheap emergency exit windows and the wheelchair lift in back. Well, to my surprise, when the bus when over some bumps, it looked like the WALL itself was shaking. I don't believe that it was my seat that was doing the shaking, but the wall...I dont think that's even possible! When are the replacements for these buses coming?!
yeah, there are really good buses out there, sorry for my typo.
The recent posts regarding Brooklyn's aging fleet has nothing to do with any preceived Brooklyn-bias, but everything to do with service additions and Orion Bus Industries' foot dragging when it comes to delivering the Orion VII's. As a result, Brooklyn Division has been saddled with a 45-bus shortage. As you would expect, Brooklyn General Managers were simply estatic to receive buses from ANY division, when about 20 or so came in from the other four boroughs. As David has said in the past, customers only care if a bus arrives at their bus stop. They could care less about the model or how old it is. The other divisions are not going to send their best equipment to Brooklyn because old buses can be scrapped upon the arrival of the Orion VII's, which brings me to my next point.
The plan was originally for the 125 Orion VII CNG's to hit Gleason Depot by the second quarter of 2002!! Now here we sit, almost a year later and it's still anybody's guess as to when they're coming in. Things would start to look a LOT better once the new buses arrive. Bottom line--direct your anger toward Orion, not the Department of Buses.
Mark
Oh God, the OrionVII is taking forever! If Jackie Gleason ever gets them, Brooklyn will get some relief from its aging fleet, but it still won't help it out enough. JG must lose those 95 RTS's sometime but either way, Brooklyn's fleet is still going to be the oldest.
Orion has always been a pain as far a on time deliveries. when the CDTA ordered their Orion6 it took FOREVER,AND A DAY...not only that,but the busses were full of problems from day one...they leaked like crazy when it rained.... you would get just as wet riding in the bus,than you would standing on the curb waiting for it...that problem was solved using... DUCT TAPE.Now we have to deal with the NOVA LFS CRAP.. I mean bus... they hade to ajust the routes times because of them[the snow storm over the Christmas hoilday,saw them slippin and slidin all over the place].The NABI'S on the other hand are great buses.
Yeah, but at least getting the Orion7's are better than getting Gilligs! *shudders*
Which is worse, the Gilligs, or the Nova LFS?
The NOVA's for sure,at least the way the CDTA mantains them here. the bus has nice looks,but everything else...nahhh. you should have seen em' here duringthe storm Christmas past... sliding all over the road... hade to skirt one on my way from a friends house....[route 55- downtown Schenectady to Albany]it almost spun completly around.. WAS not funny....had me shook!!!! FROM that moment,I realy miss the OLD ORION 1'S.... THEY MAYBE UGLY... BUT THEY WORK LIKE A DOG...
Onions-buses that will bring tears to your eyes!
#4900 Q46
Damn shoebox company! I wish the Flxible Metros came to NYC sp we wouldn't of had as much of these Orions as we do now. Orion 7's come already; they remind me of Bombardier they get paid with a shitload of money and they arrive in NYC long overdue.
Q5, even before Orion got its first order from NYCTA in 1993, we in Brooklyn have been subject to Hand Me Down RTS's before that.
they remind me of Bombardier they get paid with a shitload of money and they arrive in NYC long overdue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the manufacturer does not get paid before the buses are delivered - at least that was the way it used to be done. That is what made the transit bus industry difficult to survive in - the manufacturer had to put up the money up front to build the buses, and then only got paid later. And transit agencies would find any excuse to hold back payments.
JD
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Why does RTS suck when it comes to ride quality. All other buses, hell even Gilligs have better ride quality. What give?
Um, no.
No. The RTS' are just fine for me.
>Why does RTS suck when it comes to ride quality.
I seem have have a different opinion. Our RTS's ride quite nicely... but I guess it really all depends on the setup.
We have 03's, 04's and 06's ranging from '79-'94.
All of the 03's and some of the 04's have been rebuilt by Midwest Bus, and have really tight suspensions. You can take a speed hump at 25, and barely feel it. Corners nicely with little body roll...
The rest of the 04's and most of the 06's have a much softer suspension, and tend to have a bit more body roll. However, they still ride nicely. The '94s that we have I believe have a different suspension than the rest, a bit stiffer. They probably ride the best of all of our RTS's.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
The new batch of RTS buses in Dallas ride very well but in my opinion built very poorly. The reason I say this is because the front doors always seem to never close all the way and the lighting for the display signs seem to only work on half of the sign. Maybe it's the way DART wanted them constructed but they don't seem to be of great quality.
>The new batch of RTS buses in Dallas ride very well but in my
>opinion built very poorly. The reason I say this is because the
>front doors always seem to never close all the way and the lighting
>for the display signs seem to only work on half of the sign. Maybe
>it's the way DART wanted them constructed but they don't seem to be
>of great quality.
*sigh* Typical NovaBUS... it's a shame they ruined the RTS. Shoddy build quality plagues the LFS as well...
As for the destination sign... are they TwinVision LED signs? We seem to be having simmilar problems with our. Literally half of the signs we get either have problems, die out, or only half work.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
The sign problem is NOT anything to do with the bus manufacturer. The signs are from outside manufacturers.
We had the same problem with our first NABI order....they had the Luminator signs with the greenish LED dots that you couldn't see in the daytime. Most of them never worked. Turned out, the Luminator people came to the property and fixed them, not NABI.
As for RTS ride quality vs. Gilligs.....surely that poster jests!! We have a shitload of 1980 03's, they ride really well. The Gilligs all ride like tugboats in typhoons. Every damn thing in those pieces of crap shakes, vibrates, rattles, and what's more, the roofs leak. Never have that problem on a RTS with over 2,000,000 miles on it....
IMO, RTS' are smoother rides than Orions. Also seems to me the RTS' have better shocks.
Depending on what type of Orion. It seems to me that any Orions with the width of 96 inches have a VERY bouncy ride. WMATA's orion V's that are 40x102 have a smooth and stable ride. Ride-On's orion I's that are 30x96 are extremely bouncy and smooth. Ride-on's orion V's that are 35x96 are also as bouncy. However, Ride-on's orion V's that are 35x102 have a stiff but smooth suspension.
The EMTA Orion I coaches that are 35X96 from 1989 have a bouncy, rocky ride to them. They have settled down over the years, but, the problem still exists. The 1991 coaches which are the same length/width, ride much better than the 1989 ones, but, there still is a bit of bounce in the ride. Both series of buses had the problem where if you stopped to fast in the snow, they would stall out. I had that happen in a PAT Orion V as well.
In allison worldtrans literature, it stated "Never coast transmission in Neutral". Why is that? Does it put more wear and tear on the clutch?
Firstly, all automatic transmission manufacturers specify that you should never coast in neutral. Not sure if this is because it causes mechanical damage - although it is not impossible. One thing for sure though is that it will not put more wear and tear on the clutch as automatic transmissions are not fitted with a clutch. They are fitted with a torque convertor which acts as first gear, which uses transmission fluid to transfer the power from the prop shaft into the gearbox to the prop from the gearbox to the axle. It uses such things as a rotor, stator and a lockup clutch- although don't confuse the lockup clutch with a conventional clutch. When you are stationary in gear, the transmission is attempting to move the vehicle, but the vehicle's brakes are preventing it from doing so. As a result, the transmission fluid heats up; if left stationary in gear indefinitely, the transmission would eventually catch fire. A number of the latest automatic gearboxes are computer controlled and set to engage neutral when the vehicle comes to rest, thereby reducing wear and tear on the transmission and also reducing fuel consumption as no load is placed on the engine. Early automatic gearboxes did not feature the torque convertor, at least in the UK, and had a fluid flywheel a basically a primitive torque convertor. When these were left in gear indefinitely, the flywheel would overheat and could catch fire. Indeed a Routemaster in London did so not long ago!
Basically I think you are advised not to coast in neutral as you lose all engine braking (as the engine is no longer connected to the wheels) and also the retarder, which is an integral part of an Allison gearbox (again utuilising the transmission fluid), would not longer work as the gearbox would no longer be connected to the wheels.
Anyone who knows any different, however, please do advise. I hope the above is useful.
Today, decided to ride the 2/5 shuttle bus once again this weekend and I rode the 3 section L GO as well [see Subtalk]. Started out by taking RTS 8450 on the B8 took that to Newkirk station to catch the Q train, which I took to Atlantic then the 3 train to 14 St to wait for the 2 since the 3 was local heading n/b this weekend. So I take the 2 to 149/GC where I will go outside for the shuttle bus. Ok, let me cool down from all the raniting on the Hand Me Downs so I'll post for all to read.
This time, I decided NOT to ride the local since it is too time consuming so it's strictly expresses this time. I wait until I am able to get a seat on 5054 and boy was I glad I waited for this bus. As soon as we left, I knew this guy was a fast driver; on the Bruckner at one point we hit 65mph and the constant speed was 60mph; gave me thoughts about the speed of drivers on the A Rockaways shuttle bus GO whenever its out there. We do GOOD throughout the ride and I told him thanks and I have my pen and paper taking down bus #'s. So I go in front of E 180 and I jop on 9470 and the driver is good but the bus is capped at 40mph; most Brooklyn buses aren't capped at least ;-). Anyway we do good on the run then I cross GC to catch the bus heading toward E 180 once again and I get on 8913 after letting 2 buses go.
Man was this trip on 8913 interesting; the B/O looked like he wasn't sure of what the route was via express since it seemed like he did the opposite direction more. So we go at good speed and via the Bruckner at one point we go 60mph; Brooklyn drivers WAS HOLDIN IT DOWN! So on the exit onto the Sheridan Expwy heading toward Tremont, the driver nearly gets off the wrong exit; man if you guys were only on this bus with me it was CRAZY! So we turn partially on the WRONG EXIT, he turned a exit too early so he stays there and is thinking should he exit and possibly get us lost or do the unthinkable. Now, READ THIS-> ok we're on the Sheridan [this road needs to be repaved already] we're partially turned on the wrong exit *SO* I hear a beeping noise which meant he went in REVERSE to get back onto the right direction :-0; now this guy was gangsta; only Brooklyn drivers can do that, cuz they ghetto[some of them at least] 8-)! We head in the right direction until we reach E 180 once more. Then I wait a few minutes before the driver of 8050 is allowed to take passengers and we got caught by the train crowd. So we do 50mph at one point on the trip but we do 45 nost of the way.
So I'm back at 149 St and its time to start heading back to Brooklyn. So seeing the IRT wasn't so good this weekend and the bunching of Bx19's is the norm I decide to take the 19 to St Nicholas Av and catch the A. I ride the express to 14 St then I ride the broken L [it ran in 3 sections] and I go to Rockaway Parkway to catch the 6 ot 82 whichever comes first and I decide to go to Kings Plaza to get a few things. So the B6 and B82 arrive at about the same time but I decide to ride the 82 and I took it to Utica Av; when I arrived at Ralph Av there were THREE B47's in a row towards KP[5091,8018 & 8022] but I decide to stay on the 82, a first to me that I saw bunching like that on the 47 and each bus had no more than 10 passengers. So I take it to Utica I hop on the B46 and take it to KP. So I get some things and its brick cold out and I just want to get HOME! So I see the B41 arrive and its a pretty fast ride via local took it to my stop. Foster Av the B8 was right there, I hop on it then I go home.
I'll post all the bus #'s in a next post.
Aww man!Why'd you neglect my fave bus route for?It's way better than that aweful B46.
I wasn't going to take the chance of missing the B47 then I would be forced to wait who knows how long.
Well, here's all the buses I saw on the shuttle bus. Very different from last week; far more buses from the Manhattan & Bronx depots working the shift and even a few surprising appearences. Also on a side note 223 and 247 are now repowered. Enjoy!
ENY: 5236,5238,8906,8913
UP: 4771,4777,4778,9103,9104,9337
JG: 8522,8523,8526,8551,8554
FB: 5075,8425,9432
FP: 8136
MCH: 6018,6020,6031,6035,6036
KB: 1084,1099,1107,4609,5468,5482,5495,5503,5508,9657
MJQ: 5170,5171,9620,9623,9645,9646
GH: 5333,8035,8050,8059,8086,8087,8888,9231,9456,9470
HP: 8227,9615
126: 5054,7557,8452,9049
MV: 4811,8243,8248,8264,8771,8782,8794,8988,9000,9025
RTS 8450 B8
R68 2786 (Q)
R62A 2021 (3)
R142 6530 (2)
RTS 5054 SHUTTLE
RTS 9470 SHUTTLE
RTS 8913 SHUTTLE
RTS 8050 SHUTTLE
Orion 223 Bx19
R44 5420 (A)
R42 4698 Shuttle train 1
R42 4717 Shuttle train 2
R143 8144 (L)
RTS 5208 B82
RTS 8429 B46 LTD
RTS 8444 B41
RTS 8559 B8
Good, Ulmer Park sent a couple of 4700's up there. I hope those riders were enjoying them. :)
No AMS buses? I could seem to get away from them this afternoon -- there were two in a row on the NB express.
In Manhattan today, I saw RTS 8638 (I believe that was the #) on Lexington Ave. It was either an M101 -103 I'm not sure. The front display was soooo tiny and toward the top of the display area and to the left i couldn't read it. Is this the operator's error or a problem with the digital display?
I see that pretty often on the 1994 TMC's and the Novas in Brooklyn; its all the way on the upper left hand corner of the front sign right, nothing new to me. I think it could be both but its usually a problem with the Luminator.
It seems to be a more modern translation of the garbled signs that the older Luminators were famous for. I've seen the Luminators in the state described in the left hand corner and small as well as shoved over to the right side in full size.
Sometimes shutting the power off to the sign system, waiting a little and repowering will correct the readings but not always.
Not in this case.
There are two types of signs on NYCT's buses. The older ones display one line of text at a time, and the newer ones are capable of displaying two lines of text at a time, one above the other. The newer signs have more "flip-dots" than the older ones have. When an older sign is programmed as if it were a newer sign, the characters come out gigantic and can't be read. When a newer sign is programmed as if it were an older sign, the characters come out tiny.
David
Los Angeles MTA 1271 (1992 TMC RTS-06) has had this problem for years. As an experiment, its Luminatoor sign was programmed for 2 lines, but apparently something went wrong and the display came out small on 1 line only. It was still like this when I left L. A. in July 1998, don't know if it has been corrected since.
Now just HOW could it be an "operator problem"?????
The operator selects a code number for the required route and presses the "Enter" button and the sign does whatever. The operator cannot change the characteristics of the display; that is either programmed into the unit by maintenance or the signis going bad.
What bus routes will be assigned to both these depot & what bus routes will be assigned to other Manhattan & Bronx Depots when both these new depot open.
When you stop asking all these annoying questions!
[What bus routes will be assigned to both these depot....]
Whatever Transit chooses to put there.
- - - - -
[...& what bus routes will be assigned to other Manhattan & Bronx Depots when both these new depot open.]
Whatever Transit decides to move around.
- - - - -
Here's an original thought (NOT): How about waiting for such decisions to actually be MADE?
I have to go to work. Our mall will open today, even though all of those who plow the roads and monitor them, they urge unless you are braindead, or have a four wheel drive vehicle, DON'T GO ON THE ROAD.
Our mall will probably be the only one to open, hell even Potamac Mills is closed. As much as I would like to drive in about 14 inches of snow, its best for me to take metro, and when I get there I get there. I will take my camera though hope to take some pics, wish me luck.
Wes Samuels (All I need is a some snow dogs, a sleigh and I am off)
My son and his wife live in Beltsville and the predictions are the same for them (and you) as they are here in Philly. 14" to 20" !!!
U of Md was supposed to have a big day Monday with new student orientation and a bunch of other stuff. My son, who works there, says this snow will really put him behind schedule.
Good luck getting around, I'm staying home.
Chuck Greene
hopefully he doesn't have to go anywhere, it was really bad getting there and back home. I do feel sorry for those who really do have to be out there. All of yall be careful if you do have to drive somewhere.
Wow - I was watching the news and I see that many of the area mall are closed today. If it weren't a holiday weeekend, I'm sure we'd likely have a snow day tomorrow. Be safe and stay warm.
Wayne
Yeah, its good that the mall managements wised up and shut things down. Pentagon City, Lakeforest, Tysons Corner and Springfield Mall have all publicly announced being closed. Hopefully, Wes' mall closed so he can stay home.
We actually walked up the street to the IHOP and they are packed!! I guess it helps that 10,000 people live in Ballston and can just walk over there.
I heard that metrorail is running every hour right now, too. I saw a few buses going by on Fairfax Drive, but not a whole lot going on right now.
Stay safe everyone!!
I was going to go downtown today but that isn't happening. I didn't ride CIVIS yesterday because when I got up, it looked like it was going to be miserable getting there, but now look at what we have!
Metro's website said trains are running every half hour, but I am not sure who would be needing one. Ride-On has multiple detours in effect and the upper level at Silver Spring is not being used. National Airport and BWI are both closed. I have the WMATA Severe Weather Plan from a few years ago, I will e-mail it to any interested parties. I am quite glad I went skiing on Friday, although I am sure if I had a chance to go back in the next week, which I won't, conditions will be very good!
From what I was reading on Adam's website in Baltimore, the MTA there has shut down service. I wouldn't be surprised to see that beginning to happen here as well. From WMATA's website, I see they are operationg at Stage 3 out of 6 for today, but I'm sure that's bound to change too.
I forgot all about the CIVIS thing. Its going to make other appearances at meetings, etc., so I might have to check that out one of these days.
For all those out there that really have to be out, be careful. For those that don't need to go out, enjoy your warm abodes.
The DASH system in Alexandria VA is shut down until further notice, according to their website. In Philly,SEPTA Routes G and 27 are on snow detours according to SEPTA's website. Up here in MA, not expecting snow till tomorrow late morning or early afternoon, but forecasts calling for 5-10 inches in the Boston area, more to the south. I'm sure that will affect the MBTA, RIPTA, CT Transit, and other transit ops in Southern New England. So much for enjoying a bus riding holiday off from work!!.
Mark
New Jersey Transit reports on their website that all buses in & out of Wildwood are suspended till further notice, and many South Jersey buses running with delays due to the snow.
Mark
All South Jersey service was suspended yesterday; however NJT South is operating today on most routes. DART First State is also not operating today due to poor road conditions and a State of Emergency in the City of Wilmington.
The Maryland MTA has indeed suspended all bus and light rail service till further notice, according to the WBAL TV website. The Maryland MTA website makes no mention of the shutdown.
Mark
surprisingly alot of people where taking the train today, maybe they were all going to Landmark Mall.
Unfortunately I found out as I was getting close to the mall. They opened at 11:00 and then announced that they were closing at 11:30.
WHAT BRAINTRUSTS!!!!! No wonder they don't have any stores there.
That's horrible, Wes, I'm so sorry you had to risk your life to go out in that mess. I hope you made it home ok. What a bunch of bastards that operate these malls. I understand the need to make money, but to promote people to go out in this, come on. I'm not sure what will actually open tomorrow. Pam is supposed to open their store, but not sure if Simon Malls, the owner of Pentagon City, will be able to contain themselves and actually look out for the safety of the employees.
I got hope safely, thank god I did. I hope those who were in the same spot I was in got home ok. At Capitol Heights I saw some people who were waiting more for a bus than I was at the bus shelters. I hope they all got home safely.
it is too bad out there to be shopping, and until they have cleared the roads, noone should be out there, and if that means keeping the malls closed it has to be done. Malls will still make their money, but if someone gets killed going to one either for work or to shop, that person won't come back.
Well, the Terps aren't playing tonight. The Wake/UMD game has been sacked until possibly tomorrow. Guess it's time for some snow football. YEEEAHHH!!
I heard the ADs decided to play anyway, what happened?
Make sure when you are diving for a pass, you don't disappear. LOL!!!
Wohoo....no classes tomorrow. But I don't have my digital camera with me to take UM_Shuttle pics in the snow :-(
The Snowstorm have aready hit The DC/Baltmore Area and the Philly Area and it would hit NYC Area soon.
I heard the philly area is to get a good pounding with 14-20 Inches of Snow. Here in NYC it would be 8-14 Inches of snow.
People should stay off the roads. Try to stay home please. If you have to go outside and got to go to a place,Take Transit b/c lesser cars on the road would help for the cop cars and other emgerency services to get to where's a problem as fast as possable.
Now Q46, I wouldn't get my hopes up JUST yet! Now when I see it I'll believe it; if it does occur it might be the worst snowstorm since December 2000, when we had a foot of snow but not as bad as the Blizzard of 1996. The news projected 12+ inches for the city, which I foud surprising.
Exactly right. Snow storms are rarely as bad as the forecasters make them out to be. Weather forcasters often hype up the severity of the upcoming storm because it is a hugh ratings boost for the station. The worse the storm sounds, the more the people tune in to listen to the forcasts, the ratings go up and the station can charge more money to the advertisers. Generally, when they say we are expecting 12 inches of snow, I look for 6-8 inches. They predict 6-8 inches, I look for 3-4. It never fails. My wife just told me she heard we may get 18 inches! I'll look for 9 max.
BIG AL
I usually use a similar formula to yours BIG AL. But this time, we may actually get the amount of snow that is projected for the city; so far we have about a inch of snow and tomorrow we supposed to get a significant amount. Washington DC got hit with 9" already and so did Philly.
I wish I didn't pick to work tomorrow!
Actually it's still hitting the DC area and it's coming down pretty heavy.
Wayne
It's much worse than what the weatherman said. I've been cars buried entirely under snow.
It's much worse than what the weatherman said. I've seen cars buried entirely under snow.
Its gonna be a repeat of the Blizzard of 1996.
The National Weather Service says that 12-18 inches of snow can be expected and a blizzard warning has been issued for the New York metropolitan area.
#3 West End Jeff
Been on and off since 3pm here in NY,steadier stuff should start soon amounts have been increased(one report has 14-20 for NYC)since this morning.Also on a video clip on Weather Channel,showed a WMATA NF C40LF struggling to get out of a drift(didn't catch the bus #).Has SEPTA had there fleet of D40LF's operating today,cause you can already know that JG will not have its C40LF's out at all(strictly RTS's and Orions operating tommorrow)that and bus service is on a Saturday schedule for tommorrow(that's if any thing can get around at all).
Orion VI's were running strong here in Arlington, VA this AM. Not sure what's running now. I think with the State of Emergencies being brought out on VA and MD and probably DC, you wont see too much traffic. I was watching a few cars getting stuck in drifts trying to get to their apts. across the street from ours.
I actually saw a SUV that had spun out on Sheriff Road. That brought a chuckle to me.
Yeah, you have to laugh at these people with 4WD that think they are kings of the road in all weather. I think the only thing that is safe to operate in this weather is a tank! I sure don't want to see anyone hurt in this weather.
That bus looks like 2377, from Bladensburg, running on the D6.
That is what I did, on a Sunday I would usually take a car, but today I chose transit, and transit did a pretty good job.
they just issued a blizzard warning here, looks like it will be more like 15-20''. Its gonna be a terror up here in Sea Cliff, the roads will be a mess, and I doubt I'll see any LI Buses tomorrow, and i will be stranded. lets just hope it will be cleaned up so the buses can get through by Tuesday.
The roads already are snow covered, not a plow in sight.
Just correcting the subject line.
I'm glad you did that Greenberger 8-). To me, I found the snow VERY interesting, haven't had some really good snow since the blizzard of 1996; now we could reminisce about the blizzard of 2003; hey that was bound to happen sooner or later since we had some WARM winters over the years.
Well here's the scoop!
Here in Kew Gardens,NY. There's like about almost 10 Inches(I think) on the ground as I went outside to get breadfast at Bakers Dozen on Lefferts near Austin. Walking was pretty bad on Lefferts and I did not want to walk up that hill. Just as after watching a Paratransit Van got stuck but then got moved and it went and it went sideways blocking Greenfell St. I saw a Q10 comming and I got a OrionV #5539 and it did Pretty Good even going up that hill and I got off at the stop after it turn onto KG Road(82 Road) and I just walked around the corner to my apt building.
BTW I only rode it for 2 Stops, I was not lazy but I fround walking up that hill to be too dangerous for this weather.
That hill always gave a hard time to the Q10 during heavy snow days, even back during the fishbowl days. I think I remember one time the Q10 had to use Grenfell St. to get to Kew Gardens Rd.
Another steep hill is at Audley St. off Metropolitan Ave. When I attended P.S.99 during the 1960's, one time during a heavy snow fall our school bus couldn’t make it up Audley and I guess Park Lane South was just as bad so we had to detour to Union Tpke from Metro.
Hey Q46 Nova, was Danny’s open today?
I forgot if there's a Danny's here in KG. If you tell me what street it is,I try to rember if I ever saw that place.
About that hill. People even have a hard time walking up that hill too. Almost everything can get stuck on that hill on Snow Days. Sometimes people that live on that block don't even shovel when it's more then a certain amount of inches of snow.
Other hills that's a pain in the but in the neborhood is on Park Lane South north of Metropolitan ave and also on my block on 83 Ave between KG Road and Queens Blvd as I can rember the chrismas storm in 2002 as I saw many cars get stuck and so as 2 Green Line Buses,An OrionV and a TMC RTS. As well as today but alot of cars that where going towards KG Road ended up backing up going towards Queens Blvd and backed onto Queens Blvd. This also happin with MCI Classic #713 as it backed up to Queens Blvd along with other cars I saw as well.
You're not familiar with Danny's Pizza? It's on Lefferts at Grenfell next to the LIRR. It's been there for close to 40 years.
In case anyone is interested, I am listing a bunch of O-scale and HO-scale bus models on eBay as of this morning....I have way too much stuff and it is time to take some of the load off the shelves.
Do a search by seller at eBay. My seller ID is: sjh50
I will be listing more stuff soon.
Steve if ever you have an artic bus please let me know.
Unfortunately, there aren't oo many models of articulated buses.
I know of three -- one is an HO scale plastic Mercedes type by Wiking, another is a 1/55 scale European artic by a company called Siku, and the third is a 1/50 scale Volvo that comes in yellow/orange. I redid one of these into a San Diego Transit New Flyer D60 for someone last year.
Would you happen to have any e-mail address of company that make model buses beside royal coach I already ask Charles and it to much money for a couple of buses. Do you know any one who make custom buses?
Looks like ENY is getting its share of old equipment as well;saw 4393 on the Q56 this morning.Does anybody know if they received more pre 1990 equipment.
don't know, but I saw it as well, RUn 8 at about 1:30. KB is dumping crap on everyone exc. JG it seems. Where are those Orion 07.501 buses?
And what the hell is KB getting for replacements, More newer buses(which they don't even need)?! We're getting dumped with everything, we are dumping ground where old RTS's rot in pieces(LOL!).
According to the latest roster the only new buses in the Bronx are going to be the Orion VII's for MCH and WF(West Farms when she reopens).The only other conclusion can be that the NF D60HF's allocation has been changed and that KB might be getting some now(this is purely opinion and speculation not fact).
I went pass the former site of the AVIS facility, home for the new Maspeth Bus Depot/CMFII & the old AVIS building is gone so it look likes construction has started on the new facility.
These are the routes that should be assigned to Maspeth when it opens:
B24,B39,B43,B48,B57,B61 & Q59.
Any questions or comments, please post it.
WOW!!!! You've actually posted something that isn't annoying!I'll be damned!You do have a backbone afterall!
And he didn't say "any info will be appreciated", which annoys the hell out of most of us.
Finally you posted something here that will help us!!!!! Thats what I'm talking about, Contribution!
WOW, YOU ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED SOMETHING, CONGRATS TO BUSFAN! 8-) Whoo, we ain't gonna forget this one; see I knew you had it in you.
Hey Busfan. I'm not aware of your reputation around here and I honestly don't know what the others know, but I care for you. ;)
Ok Go back into the archives and look for BusFan's posts, look at all of those damn posts! He is very very annoying, before his vacation he was like this, he askes 30-40 questions a day, and sits back and waits for us to do the work for him.
Hmm, I checked the archives. He doesn't seem to be annoying, why he doesn't even flame or spam! I think he's just an aspiring transit buff who has an inquiring mind. What is wrong with that? Ok..ok, I know he asks so many questions, but you can always ignore the questions he asks, you know?
Remember, no one FORCES you to post to his queries.
CPCTC THANK YOU!! I AGREE!!! THE SHOULD JUST NOT ANSWER WHAT HE SAID.
Ya'll just don't get it!
I totally agree with you there.
AFAIK, *YOU* seem to ask a lot of questions yourself! You tend to repeat yourself too, see your posts on the projected opening of 100 St.
I was looking at the posts and replies to the "busfan" post and boy yall got really ugly. Though he annoys us with his post let us not lose the board over insults and arguing. One of the best things is that we are all civilized and shouldn't let anybody or anything get to us. Hell there are many times when dealing with people, and sometimes they ask the dumbest questions known to man, I keep my head.
Hey, if busfan post a stupid question, sarcism works.
For instance: question: What kind of buses does NYCTA have?
reply: they have some honda hatchbacks, with some donkeys w/highback seats and some mutated dacshuns(sp?), for express service.
Also remember there's always killfile.
True.Thats why I made thye statement I did... SHARING INFO... insted of just asking questions over and over again,is what he should be doing. From some of his early post,he did share...but after awhile,he became ..BUSFAN! My post wasn't a diss to him,it was just food for though.... thats all.
Or you could just ignore him. Killfile can always do the final justice...
I agree lets not destroy the peace here at Bustalk [I admit I squeaked a post in there] but I did not respond after that.
NYCTA has the RTS, Orion V's, New Flyer C40LF & D60HF, MCI D4500 those are the main buses out there.
also MCI D4501 and 3 D45S Vikings.
Don't forget the Orion VIs in MHV and MCH, along with the New Flyer D45S Vikings (3 in CS) and the MCI D4501 OTR coaches.
I rode an Orion V today WMATA's 4268 and it did a pretty good job, of handling the snow, I wonder is there a specific type of bus (past or present) that handles the snow with ease. I am guess Orion and New Flyer would be since they are built in Canada where it snows alot.
I wouldnt imagine any lowfloors doing good in the snow because of their low ground clearance and smaller wheels.
In fact saw two New Flyers that needed help getting out of the snow.
They were 2377(D6) and 2364(route unknown).
Quote: I wouldnt imagine any lowfloors doing good in the snow because of their low ground clearance and smaller wheels.
Of course the Gillig Low Floor uses standard-sized wheels.....but I'm sure some people here can think of reasons why it would handle worse in the snow than just about every other low floor bus.
-Mike
I just heard that Ride On will stop service at 9:30 tonight and will run on a Sunday schedule tomorrow due to the snow. I think they are already going to run on a Saturday schedule due to the holiday. I also just saw 2364 stuck too (New Flyer C40LF, WMATA)and had to have a small tractor push it.
Ride-On was scheduled to run a Saturday Supplemental tomorrow.
PRTC, VRE, and MARC will all be suspended tomorrow.
Fairfax Connector was to stop at 6PM tonight, I believe.
Just saw on the Bee Line's website that they will not operate any bus or paratransit service on Monday due to the predicted major snowstorm.
Just saw updated forecasts for Southern New England: 3 different stations calling for anywhere from 6 inches to 2 feet for most of MA (including Boston & Worcester), most of RI (including Providence) and most of CT (including Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Norwalk). It also looks like NYC will get whacked with a foot or more. Not a good bus riding or driving holiday. For those who have to drive a bus tomorrow, good luck and stay safe!!
Mark
Roger, Mark. I too checked the Bee Line website and they mentioned that the buses would not be running tomorrow.
#3 West End Jeff
If Centro in Syracuse, RTS in Rochester or NFTA in Buffalo followed Bee-Line's lead, they'd stop running their buses about every third day from October through March. What about people who have no choice but to work?
It's a snowstorm - deal with it. Better yet, plan for it. Centro and the MBTA in Boston are two systems that I know of that have designated 'snow routes' - i.e., those routes which have steep hills, narrow streets, etc. When the snow starts falling, buses operate on a modified route to avoid potential problems (the detours are published in public schedules, and local radio stations announce that the snow routes are in effect). Otherwise, it is assumed that buses will be capable of operating on other routes, albeit with acceptable delays.
Jim D.
With 4393 having been dumped on ENY, did that mean that 4014 has died?
Who knows? Kingsbridge still has over 20 crappy buses, and they might also get dumped in Brooklyn. ENY, might already have more than just 4393.
I bet 4014 is at FP. :x
#4014 Q58
In a mci8/9 handbook, it saids fuel gauges are optional. Why is that? Isn't it a bad idea not to have a fuel gauge?
Not really necessary for line service. TAs generally refill every night, and intercity service has prescribed service points along the route. There's more of a need for a fuel gauge on a charter coach, where the bus is almost never going the same place twice, and it's up to the driver to determine when he/she needs to tank up.
On a lot of the transit buses I drove, they might as well not have had them because they usually didn't work!
-Mike
I was gonna post that too, I've never seen fuel guages on buses work properly. I've driven MC-8's, MC-9's and Neoplans with them -- and I've seen plenty of buses run out of fuel when the guage says full!!
Since buses generally get a very steady fuel mileage, most tour/charter drivers go by the mileage travelled when they tank up out on the road.
I used to drive a Neoplan N116/3 Cityliner...and almost always stayed local with it. One time they sent me from LA to San Francisco; not knowing how much the fuel tank actually held or what mileage it got, I asked out shop foreman. He told me it had a 150 gallon tank, and would get the same mileage as the MCI's we had, around 6-7 mile per gallon. I put about 600 miles on the bus when I pulled into a fuel stop in San Francisco -- and put all of 51 gallons in the tank. It got about 11-12 miles per gallon. It had a Deutz 12-cylinder air cooled engine -- and most of the trip was on open interstate doing around 75mph.
>>> I used to drive a Neoplan N116/3 Cityliner...and most of the trip was on open interstate doing around 75mph. <<<
I sure would not want to do that on a windy day.
Tom
I had one that work to well. I pulled a 8500's out of JG one Saturday back in the summer 1999. The gauge sayed it had less then 1/4 of a tank. I thought that it was broken, so I did not say anything. I know the bus F/B was empty becouse there was no green light on at the bottom of it. Well, I got to the B71 and made two full trips. I went to pull out on my third trip and the bus stalled out with no fuel.
Robert
I work with buses in England and so can only speak from that perspective. Basically, each bus if filled up with fuel whenever it completes its day's work and returns to the depot. On normal, 'transit' work, buses do not cover huge mileages and in any case, the fuel tanks are of sufficient capacity to allow a full day's work to be completed on one tank of fuel; in addition, bus companies can schedule a bus so as it will not require refuelling during the day, ie will have enough fuel and thus not require a fuel gauge. Furthermore, on UK buses fuel gauges are not very reliable and soon stop working!
I believe that an MCI 8/9 is a long distance cruiser, and as such a fuel gauge may be optional when the vehicle is used on long-distance work, primarily to avoid accidentally running out of gas in the middle of nowhere! Whilst a transit bus running out of fuel may be an inconvenience to passengers, it can soon be rectified as in theory the bus would remain reasonably close to a depot. I know this from personal experience!
Unfortunately I had to go to work today, because my mall was stupid enough to open today, so instead of being foolhardy and drive, I decided to take transit. I also took my camera to take snow bus pics.
I didn't take one.
I started off by walking up to the bus stop for the A12 which normal days would be a breeze but with this storm, it wasn't. I found out be someone who just got off the bus that the bus wouldn't be coming up to that stop, so I just decided to walk down to the Landover Subway station, another longer trek. As I got to the intersection of Landover and Barlowe Roads I saw a bus and tried to catch which I did, which turned out to be 4268 from Landover on the A12 going to the Landover station. The bus as well as the driver did an excellent job of handling the snow. She did say that she had gotten into an accident earlier where a car had hit the back door of the bus, so the back door wasn't working. The car had backed into the backdoor of the bus, ruining the trunk and getting the car driver mad. Well it was the car driver's fault and got a late Valentine's present in the form of a 200 dollar ticket. She also went on a non snow covered road and had no problems going down this street, for the time I was on there, I noticed that the bus didn't even fishtail.
I got to Landover and found out that the trains were running every 30 minutes. The sign at Landover for the train heading towards Vienna wasn't work, but at the time I didn't notice that it wasn't until the train came. I was about to take the train to New Carrolton and come back(I wanted to stay warm), when the train for Vienna came. Ridership was pretty decent and the train did travel at almost a normal rate of speed. The lead cars were 1004 and 1005 (Rohr vintage). I got to Rosslyn to travel to the blue line to Van Dorn, and heard announced that the red line had some delays going to Glenmont. Minutes later I got Breda lead cars 3098 and 3099 on the blue line to Van Dorn Street. The Rohr cars I had leaked near where the operator's compartment, so I had to move towards the center of the train. ON the Breda cars, the one I got on the last two cars which had hardly no lights or no heat. Got off at Van Dorn, no DASH bus service, so I had to hoof it. About halfway there, the assistant at Foot Locker informed me that the mall closed, @!#$%#&*@# (if you know what I mean). I went back to Van Dorn and waited as one car passed by and here again that darned sign didn't work. It said that the next train would be out of service, but it wasn't. They were lead cars 1186 and 87 and all was fine until at Federal Triangle when the passengers heard a loud boom (nobody panicked), some left the train while the rest of us waited and then exited. The train had some problem, with faint smoke filling the station. That went out of service and about 10 minutes later another train came (not sure of which lead car), I got on car 1206 towards Capitol Heights. I should have went to Addison Road might have caught the A12, but I also thought that the A12 would go to Capitol Heights since it goes there on Sunday.
I got to Capitol Heights hoping to get the A12 to home. Not only did the A12 show up, no other bus showed up either. The U8(Bladensburg), and the 96(Northern) run on Sundays neither showed up and I believe both run at least 30 minutes on Sundays. After about an hour of waiting and tons of calls home to see if someone could give me a ride, I hoofed it home about five miles and took about an hour to get home, being passed by some of the biggest jerks out there. Not only were people in SUVs rude so were people in ordinary cars and even a bus driver of a Van Hool, didn't know which company though. At one point thought I saw an A12 coming only to see that the bus was a not in service going back to the Landover garage, it was Flxible D 9766. I finally got to the mall and really didn't want to go back to work for the next FOUR YEARS.
So that was my adventure for today, hope to have another one NOT!!!!!
Hopefully, you wont have to attempt this tomorrow. I just saw that Metrorail is running every 2 HOURS and tomorrow they'll start operation at 8AM running every 30 minutes. The buses are still just traveling on main roads. It will definitely be a few days before some sort of normalcy comes back. Well, with all that's gone on this week with the code Orange alert freaking everyone out, I hope this gives people a chance to just relax a bit and not worry about anything except for spending time with their families and loved ones.
I WON'T YEA!!!! The mall announced this morning they will be closed for the day, and they did it before the mall actually opened.
Hey WES:
I'm glad to hear that you got home safely, even though it was along trip. I can imagine how pi**ed you were when you found out work was closed after you trekked out there. We have off tomorrow, I called our front desk, and got the message " Welcome to Numar, a division of Halliburton. This is Monday , Feb. 17 and the office is closed for business due to the bad weather! YEAH!!! Sleep late in the morning, this storm is a whopper....
Chuck Greene
I was ready to kill the mall administrators I was so ticked. If I went face to face with Osama Bin Laden, there wouldn't be much of him left to identify when I was finished, that is how ticked off I was. I did somewhat try to maintain my sense of humor, saw an SUV that swerved off of the road and I had to chuckle, he he he. Today the mall actually said the mall would be closed, and here's the amazing part, THEY DID IT BEFORE THEY OPENED!!! On top of that I was scheduled to off tomorrow YEA! Unfortunately it will take today and tomorrow to shovel myself out, BOOO!!!
I have to shovel & snow blow all day today, if the snow & wind ever stop! Maybe I'll get out of my driveway here in Suburbia on Tuesday unless they close our place again!
Chuck Greene
You got a snowblower? That sounds like fun. I have to dig with the old shovel. If I didn't have to go to work yesterday(more if the mall said it closed before I left the house, I would have started shoveling yesterday. Oh well I have got two days to shovel, so I won't have to shovel it all at once. Doing it bit by bit.
Be careful shoveling out there.
what is the 3rd one all about? I'm referring to the number that is on display behind the window. It changes whenever a new driver comes to drive. What is it?
That's the run number (at least at NYC Transit it is). Simply put, a schedule is made up of trips, which get broken down ("cut") into runs that Bus Operators work.
David
It's the run number or drivers job number on the route. In this way, the dispatchers on the road cross reference the run number with the time the bus is due at a time point. Take the Q58. Run 001 has a certain reporting time, so does run 002, 003 and so on. The driver posts this number in the box so the surface line dispatcher can check the on time performance and know which run or job number is which.
Thank you Bill (and David), let's see if I got this right.
http://www.transitalk.org/Photos/KBarsky/53002/MTA_TMC_8567.jpg
Sorry, but you have to cut/paste. I'm sorry. but I don't how to make it appear.
Courtesy of Transitalk, we see the the display I asked about. It goes like this: 41--. Is it incorrect to have the last 2 numbers not appear?
On the MTA run boxes they only have 3 digits and that particular operator uses the first two spaces to display his or her run # . As long as the 3 displayed is correct there is no problem. At NJT on the older buses we have four digit run boxes. There have been times where I space my numbers out due to convience or a broken spot on the box . Example 4__1 or _4_1 .
T.B.
In the example above, if the run number is 001, what is the operator's ID number. Is it 0,00, or 01?
Michael
Washington, DC
Escaped from New York before the brunt of the storm
Oh, that's known as the run # and whenever a new driver comes to drive, the number changes b/c that is their 'ID' for the respective route they are on.
Well that explains a lot. Down here in D.C., buses have a block number, ex. BX05 (Bladensburg Division, Route X, 5th bus on the line). The block number DOESN'T change when a new driver comes on. The block number is assigned to the bus, not the driver. I now understand that in New York, the run number belongs to the driver, not the bus, the opposite from Washington.
WELL I THE BROOKLYN DIVISION 1996 NOVA HAVE GOT LED TAIL LAMPS AND A GOOD NUMBER HERE WHAT I HAVE SEE:
ENY: 8690, 8908, 8910, 8912
FP: 9140-9143, 9145, 9146-9149, 9151, 9162
UP: 9077-9086, 9088-9110, 9103 <----ONLY (34) NOVA LEAST WE HAVE NICE LIGHT
#9103 - B6- LTD
#9110 - B6- LTD
#9299 - B3
#9301 - B3
#9324 - B36
8690 is a 1994 bus
8690 is a 1994 TMC. And its 8691 with the LED's. All FP buses up to the 9160's and the early 8900's in ENY for Brooklyn have them too.
9317 a soft seater coach also has led taillights
its also been repainted.
8690 is a 1994 RTS bus.
YESTERDAY AT AROUND 8:00PM I SAW NOVARST #9049 IT HAD LED TAIL LAMPS NICE LOOK BUS
9049 - M15 - LOCAL
9188 - M15 - LOCAL
9191 - M15 - LTD
Dude, kill the CAPS.
Yo Chill wit the caps, that means ur shouting on the net.
Some of NYCT's artics have grown chains on their rear wheels in preparation for the snowstorm.
I rode 5456 this afternoon on the 2/5 express shuttle bus SB and it had the chains. I didn't know chains were legal at all in New York State, but are they really designed for high-speed driving? The moment we entered the Sheridan one of the chains made an awful clanking noise with each turn of the wheel, and the clanking continued until we got off the Deegan. It sounded like one of the chains had come loose, but I didn't see anything obvious when I got off the bus.
>>> The moment we entered the Sheridan one of the chains made an awful clanking noise with each turn of the wheel <<<
Increased speed would increase the centrifugal force which would extend the chains at the point where there is an extra link or two, and cause the extra link to strike the body or frame, making the noise. At the time chains are installed, the extra links should be wired to the chains at the sidewalls to prevent that type of flailing.
Tom
They really aren't chains. THey're more like bungee cords with rows of metal rings, wrapped around the tires. The "chains" are awful. They make a horrible vibration, and no one wants to sit or stand in the rear half of the bus. My first ride on a "chained" artic was after the first snow of last year ( this winter).
Do the artics get stuck in snow more often than other busses, like the RTS?
Whatever they were, they made for an awful ride -- and a terrible noise on the highway.
The artics have apparently had trouble in the snow in the past, so they may not be a bad idea despite the ride and noise issues (although I think the noise was due to a poorly attached chain).
Is that a good idea to put chains on artic buses. When those buses only govens to 42mph what good will that do!
The Volvos at NJT are terrible in this type of weather. Mainly because of the engine not being in the rear of the bus. I have bogged down on the slightest of inclines for 40-45 minutes until a plow came through.
Troy
One interesting phenomenon that the Nova RTS's display is a nasty tendency to have the back end silde all over the place on acceleration on slippery inclines. I thought it was a myth until I witnessed it Christmas evening on the Q17 trying to go up hill on 188 Street. It made me appreciate the skill and training drivers receive to overcome those situations.
I'm sure Brooklyn67 and BigAl can give more of a first hand account of how the newer RTS's are such handful's in the snow.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
I had a rear-wheel-chained RTS 4900 series bus during the storm. I have to say that the chains made a world of difference in maintaining safe operation of the vehicle. The bus rarely slipped, and when it did, it was only on start-up accelleration. I was able to maintain an average speed of 25/30 MPH, topping that intermittently as a test of feel, fully in control of the vehicle even during the worst of the buildup. But as traffic began increasing, I started to operate around 15/20 MPH, just to be sure. I didn't slip or skid once during decelleration/stopping.
The drawbacks to the chains are:
Extremely rough and rocky riding where there is less than 3" of packed snow on the ground.
Excessive noise and vibration when there is less than 3" of packed snow on the ground.
For these reasons, I maintained operation in *unplowed* areas when possible.
Overall, the chains saved service, because without those chains, I'd have pulled over and waited it out. That's how bad it was out there today, and I didn't even realize just how bad those roads were until I drove my car home after work. Without chains ;-)
Saw Onion 556 on the Q32 today...with chains on it. RTS and New Flyres are not the only buses that use chains. Has anybody seen an MCI Cruiser with the chains on them?
#556 Q32
>>> I had a rear-wheel-chained RTS 4900 series bus during the storm. I have to say that the chains made a world of difference in maintaining safe operation of the vehicle. <<<
Who makes the decision to put chains on and when to remove them? Who has to do the work of putting them on? I remember what a bitch it was to put chains on a dual tired truck (10 wheels) with much more clearance around the wheels than most transit buses. I certainly would not want to put them on while on the road.
Tom
Unless one REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY have to go out today, DON'T.
Everything is virtually shut down and even transit is not at 100% today.
Metrobus: running on a sunday schedule and running only on main roads
Metrorail: running every hour and started running at 8am this morning
rail service limited to indoor stations only
Red line: Union Station to Medical center
Green line: Fort Totten to Southern Avenue
Orange Line: Stadium Armory to Ballston
Blue Line: Stadium Armory to Rosslyn
Yellow line: Mount Vernon Square to L'Enfant Plaza
The yellow line honestly shouldn't be running at all, since the green line runs on the same track and the yellow line will be running only from four or five stations. Also just a theory, maybe is the time to start running eight car trains, just to see the effect of an impact of those trains, maybe one or two trains only.
Ride On Bus: Running on a limited Sunday schedule and will quit running at about 9pm.
The Bus, Fairfax Connector, DASH, and Cue are all not running today.
If it was a regular holiday, all would be running on a Saturday schedule, but this is no regular storm.
I also believe that Maryland MTA is not running today also. I also believe that Maryland, Virginia and DC have all issued state of emergencies not sure how long when each will end.
Last night I heard Metrorail was running every 30 minutes, did they reconsider?
Ride On will close at 6:00 P.M. today, Monday, February 17, 2003
Ride On is operating a reduced Sunday service today.
DELAYS
All routes may be running late, due to snow conditions
DETOURS (See below for long term detours)
The following detours are in effect Monday, February 17, 2003.
Buses will stay out of the upper lot in Silver Spring station
Route 1 Use East West and Connecticut - bypass Washington and Grubb Roads.
Route 2 Use Grubb and East West - bypass Sundale
Route 5 Use Ga. and Plyers Mill - bypass Capital View
Route 10 is not operating at this time
Route 12 has suspended service as of 9:35 a.m.
Route 15 Use Wayne Ave to Sligo Creek Prkway to Piney Branch. - End of the line at Merimac and Carroll and University - not going into Langley Park
Route 16 Between Langly Park and East West will stay off New Hampshire - use Unviersity and Carroll
Bypass Quebec Terrace area - Use Piney Branch to New Hampshire.
Route 17 - End of the line at Merimac and Carroll and University - not going into Langley Park
Routes 20 Nolte is Closed, Northwest Park closed, Oakview closed - stay on New Hampshire. Thayer Closed, use Sligo Ave
Route 26 is not operating at this time
Route 34 is not operating at this time
Route 41 is not operating at this time
Route 47 is not operating at this time
Route 48 is not operating at this time
Route 49 is not operating at this time
Route 55 Travis Closed. At 11:10 end route at Ridge and Observation - Make U-turn in intersection - Dorsey Mills closed
Route 54 not opperating at this time
Route 57 is currently not operating due to impassable roads .
Route 61 bypass Locbury, Rexmore & Waters Landing - Use Crystal Rock and Father Hurley. Routes are ending and laying over at the Germantown Transit Center.
Route 62 are not running at this time.
Route 59 Walkers Choice Closed. As of 6:40 p.m. between Rockville and Shady Grove use MD 355
Route L8 are not running at this time
I have been hearing everything from 1 hour to 2 hours today, so even I am not sure at what frequency they are running today. On WMATA's website said that on the Green line trains would run from Fort Totten to Congress Heights, and not to Southern Avenue, even though the segment between Southern Avenue and Congress Heights is underground. It maybe that a portion of the Southern Avenue station is outside and snow may have affected the third rail there.
They should be able to make it as far as Southern Avenue with relatively few problems. According to my WMATA track map, trains could use the crossover at Anacostia to stub into Congress Heights and come back on the track they came to get to Anacostia, or they could go to Southern Avenue, where the crossover is just north of the station. Can't imagine it is that hard to keep 600 feet of third rail clear but if it is, then I guess it is. At Fort Totten, they either have to crossover at Georgia Avenue and stub into Fort Totten, or, what they are most likely doing, is relaying north of Fort Totten at the crossover just past the connection to the Red Line. This means that the trains just have to manage the 400 feet above ground at Fort Totten, since the tunnel really doesn't end until just before West Hyattsville.
At the WMATA website they said as far as Congress Heights and on the television, even according to WMATA officials the last station that can be served on the green line south would be southern avenue.
Ride-On will provide Sunday service tomorrow.
Both companies have suspended service today due to inclement weather.
QSC is still running but QSC is not running the Express Bus Routes today.
idk how Tommorw's Rush Hour would be like since many people have to go to work on tuesday and I going into Manhattan tommorw and I hope I get the QM18 from Queens Blvd/83 Ave to 34 St/3 ave then I walk over to 2 ave and take the M15 down to 14 St.
Due to the snow, I don't know if they are running articulated or standard buses on these routes.
[Due to the snow, I don't know if they are running articulated or standard buses on these routes.]
Why not go to 23rd/79th/86th Street and find out? You could either observe them directly today, or ask the drivers tomorrow. Either way, report back to us so we can know.
I saw an RTS on the M86 at Broadway about an hour ago. Haven't seen one of those in years.
I'll leave it to Busfan to find out if there are any artics on the M86 and if the same applies to the M79 and M23.
Leaving that to Busfan, that's a major task ;-). Seriously though there was hardly any buses on the road to begin with, only saw 2 B8's and that was in a couple of hours and they were both New Flyers and had chains in the back wheels.
The B3 appears to be running only a slightly reduced schedul. Been shoveling outside for a few hours and they seemed to be coming every so often.
I hear the M104 go by every few minutes. Seems to be running on something remotely resembling its regular schedule.
I saw a non artic on M23 yesterday, its garage number was 8626.
Arti
Blizzard conditions today, opened up the front door to a wall of snow. So far about 12 inches of snow, roads have been plowed, thankfully the village is plowing the roads. The sidewalks however, are all snow covered, and to be honest, in a storm this bad, clearing the roads will have to be good enough.
According to the MTA, LI Bus service is running, and LIRR is having 30 min delays. The NYCT buses are running, but as I imagine, with major delays. I doubt I see any LI Buses when I head out for a walk, later this afternoon!
What a mess...
Heh.
Drove my chained rear-wheel RTS all night through the mess. Wasn't bad really.
NJT Bus is basically down for the count. Some limited local service in north Jersey cities, but otherwise suspended.
Hi
Does anyone know where I can purchase Bus Jackets,,,etc,,,
I know there was a web site of an operator selling these materials,,goes on the name of K.K.--from what i Have heard
Thanks
Steve
FDNY
Email me and I'll get you the phone number of my guy. He's out in Brooklyn though. You'll probably have to pick it up there.
Why is everyone getting on "Busfan"? Where in the following does it say you must "contribute" anything:
Welcome to the BusTalk bulletin board at www.nycsubway.org. This board can be used for discussions of bus transit systems worldwide. It is not limited solely to New York City topics, but please stick to bus transit issues only. Off-topic and harassing posts will be removed at the discretion of the management. Please note! This site is not run by MTA New York City Transit!
It says "discissions", not contributions, and personally, if he doesn't "know enough" to be helpful to anyone, either answer his questions or ignore him. It's really that simple. This "I know so much about buses" attitude is childish. I'm not entirely defending Busfan, I'm defending his right as a participant of these boards to contribute according to the guidelines outlined above. He's never been beligerant, viscious or harassing. However, mmost of your replies to his posts have been just that.
At least you can understand what he's saying. He's one up on someone else here already!
Really, all this fuss about the need for someone to contribute is silly. Questions, no matter how redundant should be answered with truth, or ignored if you don't have the answer.
I agree with you Brooklyn67
I agree.
If Busfan or any other posters annoy you, use the Killfile (I wish some of the other boards I frequent had this feature).
Jim D.
The wise Brooklyn speaks.
Bee Line: No service
MTA NYCT: Bus Serivce on saturday service with delays. Bronx and Manhattan Limted stop routes are all local today.
Subways: 5 No service north of 180 St. W and Q running limited service. A train service south of Rockaway Blvd are running buses instead of trains.M Train No Serivce. all other lines with minor delays.
LIRR. 15-30 Minute Delays. Trains going east of Ronkonkoma are running buses instead. Extra train service for today is canceled.
MNRR. Sunday Service.
LIBus. Minor Delays.
QSC. No Express Bus Service. Other NYCDOT Complanys are running with minor delays.
Suffolk Transit. No service.
NJ Transit Bus. All South Jersey buses not running. North Jersey buses running with delays and no service to PABT.
NJ Transit Train. Subject to delays and trains are subject to be canceled.
CT Transit Stanford. Now running under a Saturday Schedule.
update: As of 12:45 pm, all franchise buses have been yanked off the road.
Still the same above but with some changes.
CT Transit Stamford. Service ends at 3 PM Today. Might be running normal service tommorw.
MTA NYCT Bus: No B13,B77,M60,S42, S46, S51, S52, S54, S57, S59, S61 Service.
MTA NYCT Subway: No W service south of 50 St. No Q Service south of Dekalb ave.
LIRR: 45 Mins to 1 Hour Delays
MNRR: Service every 2 Hours on the Hudson Line after 4:30 PM . Harlem Line service every 2 Hours after 6 PM. New Haven Line every 2 Hours after 4:30 PM. All trains after 6 PM would make all stops from end to end. Subject to 30-45 Minute Delays.
All NYCDOT Complanys are not running buses as of yet.
CT Transit New Haven area service shut down at 4 PM, Hartford area local and express routes made their last outbound run from Downtown Hartford at 4:15PM. From CT Transit's website
MBTA buses in the Boston area still running with many delays, several routes now on snow route detours.
Mark
Hah! A little snow in NYC,and everything shuts down. UP here,we had 4FEET of snow on the ground at any given time... and still our crappy buses ran....CDTA may be a dog,but she's a good dog...sometimes. Other times you gotta smack her across the nose with a paper....Is the storm anything like the one in 96'?[I was still living there then] My youngest daughter was born on the day it hit,and man it was hell trying to get them to the hospital[and from it, for that matter].OUR buses are still running here,just like Christmas[our big storm that droped 4 ft] but it still sucks trying to SHOVEL THIS CRAP FROM MY DRIVE WAY[not suppose to be doin that cause of my kidney problem,but who else gonna do it?]I hate snow......
You can add the B15 to the list of buses not running.The W is being sent to 59St to turn back.Same thing with the N.The F is suspended between Jay St and Church Av,there's a shuttle train from Church Av-Av X.The G isn't going further than Bedford-Nostrand.
I think that was b/c of that fire at 14 St on the F this morning and the accumulating snow. M60 was knocked out earlier as well & the 5 was suspended to Dyre.
Same as the 4 PM Update but with few changes.
MTA NYCT Bus: The B15 is not running.
MTA NYCT Subway: No N and W service south of 59 St. No F service between Church Ave and Jay Street. Shuttle Service south of Church ave. G service replace by a shuttle between Bedford/Nostrand and Hoyt/Schermerhorn.
LIRR: No service to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens. Only Port Washington Branch Trains are stopping at Woodside. Montauk Line running with 2 Hour Delays
Right now alot of wind and drifting snow, just about 14 inches here,
but drifts are near 25-30 inches.
Main roads have been plowed well,side streets are a mess. So far I
havent seen any LI Buses, though main roads are passable.
The good news is there is a back edge of the precip sheild moving up
through SW New Jersey, so they heavy stuff may end by late afternoon.
Still expecting 18 to 20 inches here.
The south shore has gotten hit worse, with reports of 21 inches from
Bellmore and JFK airport.
All above ground subways and LIRR service is spotty.
Roosevelt Field is closed, as I imagine most places are.
NYCT bus service is severely delayed, with alot of SI Buses not running.
Stay tuned and check out my blizzard of 2003 album on Imagestation, I
am user qtraindash7.
The news is reporting that busses will ONLY stop at bus stops with a snowflake symbol. But the MTA website says: "buses will bypass stops that display the snowflake symbol"
What gives!???!
Bus stops that have snowflakes on them will be bypassed. If they have no snowflakes, then they will stop. Check out Channel 2 for more.
Ray
I have never seen a bus stop with a snowflake. I guess there are very few in Manhattan. Can someone show a picture?
In Staten Island:
S42, S46, S51, S52, S54, S57, S59 and S61.
In Brooklyn:
B13, B77 and B61 is not going into the Red Hook Terminal in Brooklyn.
This is info that some if not MOST of you already know BUT for more info go to www.mta.info for more information.
Be Safe!
Ray
I live along the B1 route and have not seen a single B1 pass by in the hour and a half I was outside shoveling. A person walked by asking me where the bus was and I told him I didnt see any, and he said that there was no N trains either.
2 words: STAY HOME!
They should suspend everything in NYC so that they can clear the streets and tracks of this mess!
Everything should be back tomorrow morning at 5am.
#1979 X1
Suspend everything? Then the people who aren't home already will have to build igloos for the night.
It's obvious why the B13 isn't running(but I wish it was). It's because of the "Big Hill" a.k.a Cypress Hills St., there is no way a bus can pull off those turns in this weather. They should've put the 3997 on that hill, it wouldn't stand a chance. It would've probably turned over(heh, heh)
Yeah I saw that on the news earlier; wonder how Ridgewood traveled w/o his beloved 13 ;-). Also, ALL LTD service in the Bronx and Manhattan was suspended and Operation Snowflake was in effect. Hope y'all stayed safe! And all other bus service was reduced DRASTICALLY; saw only two B8's in a couple of hours today.
Like many other places across the Tri-State Area, roads are covered with about two feet of snow with drifts of about 4-5 feet of snow. Suffolk Transit at this end is suspended and so is the Hampton Jitney in Southampton. I have not heard a LIRR train go by the Southampton LIRR Station, so I'm thinking service on the Montauk Branch is cut short to about Speonk or probably Babylon which would be a better place. Sunrise Hwy and Montauk Hwy have not been plowed and if they were then it is covered up again with another two feet of snow. So far, at my house I have about 20 inches. There's probaly about 15-18 around Southampton. I would expect bus service around the East End to run on Wednesday or Thursday as the temperatures warm up.
Be Safe!
Ray
Im hoping buses will be running tomorrow-my boss comes from NJ-he dont make it in,i cant go to work. I live by the B1, so im hoping things go well. Unless i wind up with #4330 or #4332 then im not so sure.
Unless I wind up with #4330 or 4332, then I'm not so sure..
LOL! I'll feel bad if they do come for you. At least it's better than getting the 3986, or 3997 over here at Fresh Pond, but not by much.
go to ebay, the seller is babypengy. This articulated bus is white with 4 doors. Its a good bargin and the company is rietze. grab it while you can.
my sister is trying to get to palmetto street(231 to be exact) on saturday am from brighton beach. Need help to get her there. I was thinking to get her to the "L" train but that keeps getting rerouted on weekends. Any help would be appreciated.
If your taking about Myrtle/Wyckoff(my territory) then your sister could also take a bus to get here. The (L) train is split into three sections, and taking that would be a pain in the ass. If she could somehow get the (G), she could get the (L) at Metro Av.. If she doesn't mind taking buses, the B13, B26, B52, or B54 can take you here, but I best recommend the B52. I hope this helps.
According to www.mapquest.com, 231 Palmetto Street is near Wilson Avenue. That would suggest one of the following:
1. Q to Canal Street, then J to Myrtle, then M shuttle to Knickerbocker, then walk a few blocks;
2. Q to Prospect Park, then S to Franklin/Fulton, then C to Broadway/East New York, then L to Myrtle, then walk;
3. Q to DeKalb Avenue, then walk back to Fulton Street for the B52 toward Ridgewood. Ask driver to announce Wilson Avenue. Walk one block "south" to Palmetto Street.
I'd vote for option #3. It would probably take longest, but it's also the easiest to remember (only two vehicles) and leaves the least room for error.
my sister will take option #3-she will by a unlimited metrocard-thanks for the help.
And on a side note, the B52 on Gates Av. is right near Palmetto St., these streets are only a block away from each other. Let's just hope your sister doesn't have to suffer with Fresh Pond's 3900's/4300's/4600's/4700's.
4:30pm snow update
Posted by Qtraindash7 on Mon Feb 17 17:12:29 2003
18 inches so far, with snow continuing, and some heavier patches of snow lowering visibility, with the back end of the system.
Roads are snow covered, many have become difficult to get through, with mostly SUV's (now that Hummer comes in handy!).
I did see one bus in the distance on Glen Cove ave, however, I didnt see any buses running up close. If there was a Saturday schedule, the N27 and N21 buses did not show up to a half hour after their departure time.
Bus stops are buried in snow drifts and plow drifts.
LIRR is experiencing delays and track closures, and on major parkways there is only one lane open in each direction.
4:30pm snow update
18 inches so far, with snow continuing, and some heavier patches of snow lowering visibility, with the back end of the system.
Roads are snow covered, many have become difficult to get through, with mostly SUV's (now that Hummer comes in handy!).
I did see one bus in the distance on Glen Cove ave, however, I didnt see any buses running up close. If there was a Saturday schedule, the N27 and N21 buses did not show up to a half hour after their departure time.
Bus stops are buried in snow drifts and plow drifts.
LIRR is experiencing delays and track closures, and on major parkways there is only one lane open in each direction.
How are the road conditions in Metro New York?
JD
The plows did a good job however bus service is going to be just like yesterday.
I've seen 2 Bx6 buses pass by as well as a couple of M4's and M5's. And yesterday I didn't see nor hear 1 Bx6 at all nor noticed any M4 or 5's passby.I say its better than yesterday.
Very good here in Northern Nassau county. Cant say the same for the bus stops, most of which remain snow covered, so ppl have to wait in the street. All LI Buses I saw today were running ontime, with less riders than normal.
My boss cancelled going to work today-he said waiting over 2 hours for a NJ Transit bus wasnt worth the trip. Did see #4787,#7516,#9092 and #9323 on the B1 this morning. I could have gotten to work though. The low floor buses on the B68 were running too. My friend didnt make it in, the trains were suspended. Hopefully by tomorrow things should look better.
Yup, I couldn't get to class today and my school was OPEN :-\, F AND Q service was suspended so I couldn't take either one; not to mention the bus was out of the question so I stayed home.
Passing by ENY garage at about 10:45, saw what looked like bus 4598 awaiting its call to service. Have any other buses been shifted in this merry-go-round that has seen some 1986 GMCs going to the Brooklyn Division?
4598 was last assigned to JAM. Either it was transferred to ENY or it was just sent to the base shop.
It was in the garage with other buses assigned to the ENY garage. Sorry for the confusion.
Did they put the ENY patches on it? That's the only way to truly know it's in ENY, if you haven't seen it in service.
heres one for you. saw #4655 on the B49 line today. the hand me downs continue. I will try to get to Ulmer Park garage tomorrow and see whats around(providing i get to work).
Actually, 4655 has been in Flatbush since September when FP dumped it on them(which is something rarely seen with Fresh Pond). Flatbush has 4654-4657. They got those buses to provide enough service for the B47.
4655; along with 4654,4656 & 4657 has been there at FB for a couple of months actually. The NEW hand me downs are 4141,4214,4215 and 4217; saw 4215 on the B41 today.
Saw 4215 on the B41 yesterday morning as well. It stopped on the main roadway of Brooklyn Bridge Blvd. It and its sister, 4214 are in the original MTA paint scheme. Where did you see 4215?
Da Beastmaster
On Adams St by the courthouse around 1:45pm. It had black pork chops and seemed to start good.
LMAO! I remember when I saw 4214 on the Q31 back in 2001.
Boy does that bring back haunting memories!!!
#4214 Q31
Unless 4214 was a temporary swap from Jamaica depot for one day due to a breakdown, it could not have been on the Q31. That bus was never assigned to QV depot.
BIG AL
Yep it was a 1 day appearance on the Q31 along with 4596.
#4596 Q31
Are you sure you read that number right? I highly doubt 4598, of all 4500's would be transferred to ENY. Jamaica, if they are transferring 4000's any place would be sending the 42 and 4300's first before any of the 45's are transferred out. If 4598 really was there, it would probably be due to having repairs done in the base shop.
BIG AL
AFAIK buses undergoing repairs at eny cmf use bushwick av to enter and leave the facility.
That's true, most of their 4500's are in pretty good shape [is 4567 still around, that bus was AWFUL]. I spotted 4215 formerly of JAM on the B41 today.
4567 was just running on the Q4 a couple of days ago. I believe all the 42's are gone now out of Jamaica depot.
BIG AL
Yep they're in FLATBUSH!
#4215 B41
Yup, as I said earlier saw 4215 on the B41. I missed a chance to ride it today.
Try to get 4141, that was a FP original. :)
I came to NY for the holiday weekend to dance tango at night. During the day, I rode around the city.
Thursday, 2/13:
#7 subway to Woodside. The T/O left his door open so I could see everything. Then Q53 to Far Rockaway. Then Q35 to Kings Plaza. Followed by B3 to the end of the line at Ullmer Depot. I walked around the depot and then took the B64 to Coney Island. I took the W back to my hotel in Manhattan.
Saturday 2/14 Starting to joyride in the Bronx
Due to the mess on the 2/5 (bus substitution between 149th and 180th), I took the 2 to 149th and then double backed on the #4 to 125th to catch the #6 to Pelham Bay.
I take the BX29 to City Island, which is a nice trip. I take the BX29 to the other end at Bay Plaza. Then the BX28 to to Earhart Lane (Co Op City). I've passed this location so many times on Amtrak it was nice to see the tracks from the street. Unfortunately, no trains.
I want to ride the BX8 so I take the BX29 back to Pelham Bay Station and catch the BX5 to Crosby Avenue. The BX5 is sitting at the terminal. My bus, BX29 pulls right alongside the BX5, stops in the middle of the street, doesn't let anybody off nor on, and the BX5 pulls out. Then he lets passengers off and on. What an idiot. He should have pulled over to the curb and let passengers off, especially those that wanted to catch the BX5. (Note: I called Department of Buses today using the 800 number on the timetable. The representative was very concerned and said she would forward it to the depot for investigation. [I'm guessing Gun Hill depot.) I have to wait for the next BX5 to Crosby. I get to Crosby to realize I missed the BX8 based on the timetable. Fortunately, the bus was late and I didn't have to wait 28 minutes for the next scheduled bus. The operator asked if anybody wanted to go into Edgewater Park when a passenger said "you're not supposed to ask. You're supposed to go in." I told the lady he was behind schedule and was trying to get back on schedule. The woman answered back. Finally, the B/O said "I didn't mean to make this an issue!!" No recovery time is available at Locust Point so we quickly turn around. I missed the connecting point for the BX40 to the Maritime College. I got off at Randall Avenue and walked over to E. Tremont Avenue. Down to the college and back to Westchester Square to catch the #6 back to Manhattan.
Overall, I had a good time. Next time I come back, I want to ride the BX27, BX39, and BX22.
Michael
Washington, DC
did you see E 177 Street in Throgs Neck at Tremont Avenue, or is it a service road?
According to the Bronx bus map, E177 doesn't run into E Tremont. E 177 is a residential street that has access to the Throgs Neck toll area. It's open only during certain hours, which I don't remember.
Michael
Escaped from NY on Monday before the brunt of the storm
Avoid the BX22. That line is VERY unpredictable.
do you post at Rider Diaries?
No.
you mentioned the Bx22 as being unreliable and with your name you seemed familiar......
You've never seen me before in your life. You are getting sleepy......
yeah, whatever <6>
Yeah, <5>.
now all you need to do is to signup for the other side of the tracks(nycrail.com) and you will be complete
I come in search of technical data...I haven't betrayed anyone.
This is a snowstorm for the ages and I have seen some buses that got stuck in service, though have only seen WMATA buses so far. I have seen stuck were:
2377(2/16/03)-WMATA D40LF running the D6 (Bladensburg)
2364(2/16/03)-WMATA D40LF route unknown (Bladensburg)
4353(2/17/03)-WMATA Orion V possibly on route 42 near Dupont Circle (Western)
Has anyone seen other buses stuck either on television or in person.
This is for any bus system.
5506 (NYCTA route M86) (D60HF) got stuck on 87th Street in New York City, along with some other RTSs and Orion Vs which I couldn't get numbers.
W.E.S.
I saw bus #2377 stuck on the Weather Channel! Cool! In NYC, I saw buses #585 on the B77 stuck on the news with the driver using a shovel! Also, a NFI C40LF on the B77 as well. Also, I did see bus #5506 (D60HF) on Broadway (These artics are dangerous) and I saw another Artic on Tremont Av with the back of the bus slid into a lampost.
Ray
and those buses (the artics) had chains on them. Man! Also, did you get the numbers of any Quill buses stuck in midtown (I saw what looked like an 8600 series bus stuck with 4 other buses trapped behind it, but I did not get the last two numbers)?
When it snows, WMATA just parks their artics and uses regular 40' buses. New Flyer 40LFs seem to be the losers here when it comes to buses being stuck.
Depending on what part of the area you were in, SEPTA service was either operating very limited service or not at all...
The SEPTA web site reports that the 5, 8, 19, 29, and 35 buses are not operating. I would imagine that's due to the very narrow side streets which normally don't get plowed until three days after a snow storm. The 120 between 69 St Terminal and Cheyney University also was not operating (classes at Cheyney are cancelled today). The back roads leading to Cheyney, including PA 926, were impassible (not as bad on 926 though).
Regional Rail is operating on a Saturday schedule today with no R6 Cynwyd service, nor R2 service into the State of Delaware nor R5 Paoli/Thorndale service west of Malvern (which screws me over big time, because I have to get to my job in Downingtown via the R5).
On Monday, there was no bus service into the City of Chester, which effectively took out the 109, 113, 114, 116, 117/119, 118 and 37 buses. By late last night, West Chester public works crews and contractors were clearing snow from Gay Street (the main westbound street in West Chester), hence the 104 wasn't operating on it's regular route. A lot of the suburban buses were also not operating.
(This part may be more appropriate for SubTalk, but the P&W (100/Norristown High Speed Line) and the 101/102 trolleys were not operating, however the subway-surface lines were.)
Things are starting to get back to normal, however I did see NABI 5326 working a 92/133 trip at around 12:45pm (6018 block, running about 20 minutes late), which would normally see a Ford Cutaway or an ElDorado.
How did the septa new flyers handle in the snow. I know the neoplans both artics and An440 are sucks Nabis are better!
How did the septa new flyers handle in the snow. I know the neoplans both artics and An440 are sucks Nabis are better
yesterday at yukon, we only used mci's on all routes. i had 1889, and 2108 on the 61. i had to say, i didnt slide once, the bus handled great. we also had the x1 running only 4th ave and 86st. all buses were running every hour. cast was using there orions, it looked like only we were using the mci's. have a good day
Did you happen to take a pic of your bus on the S61? I sure would like to see it if you did. I thought that was 1 of the lines that was suspended?
My 102-DL3 sure can handle any weather. They're the best buses in the system in my opinion. Anything is better than those Onions.
#1979 S61
Since the S61 used MCI's, did the same go for the S79.
Also, is Yukon receiving anymore new buses anytime soon.
since when in the world the S61 uses an MCI?
The only SI Local route that I have heard about that had them once was the S78.
Read http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=66192. yukon2159 said that yukon used mcis on all routes.
yes, the 79 used them as well. no one has said we are getting anything new, we keep getting junk rts's though. and yes, it was strange site to see mci's on locals.
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of the 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & in full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. My supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $15.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
im hopeful to get to work-lets hope everyone makes it in tomorrow-take it slowly folks.
The following school districts are closed:
Montgomery County
Fairfax County
Alexandria
DCPS
PG County
Anne Arundel Conuty (and Thursday, too)
Calvert County
Charles County
Arlington County
Falls Church City
Fauquier County
Loundon Conuty (for rest of week)
Manassas City
Prince William County
Spotsylvannia County
Stafford County
Federal government is open with an unscheduled leave policy in effect
That said, here is the DC Area transportation situation for tomorrow:
MetroRail: 12-15 minute frequencies at all stations (today was 30), only 450 out of 680 trains will be available for service and the full fleet is not expected to return again until next week, parking will be limited in the lots due to snow "removal"
MetroBus/MetroAccess: "Modified weekday" schedule on main routes only, no neighborhood service, board bus at nearest major plowed street
VRE: Modified Schedule at the request of CSX
MARC Penn: "S" Holiday Schedule
MARC Camden: Two southbound trains in the AM, two return trains in the PM
MARC Brunswick: Two inbound trains from Brunswick to Union Station, bus from Point of Rocks to Brunswick, two return trains in the PM to Brunswick, bus from Brunswick to Point of Rocks, no Frederick service, MARC tickets honored on 991 bus from Monocacy to Shady Grove and on the MetroRail
Both MARC and VRE: Limited parking due to snow "removal"
Ride-On: Limited Weekday schedule, all weekday routes in operation but frequencies dependent on demand and conditions
DASH: "Modified weekday" according to Tristan (BusStalker), If I am wrong, direct all insults and negative feedback to him ;-)
Sorry, no info on ART, CUE, Fairfax Connector, The Bus, or PRTC. I will post it if I find out what they are doing or someone else will do us the favor.
Now I find out the rest of the info:
All ART - Arlington Transit routes will be operating on a modified weekday schedule on Wednseday, February 19. Paratransit will begin operating at 7 AM.
FAIRFAX CONNECTOR will be operating LIMITED WEEKDAY SNOW SERVICE on the following routes ONLY: South County - 101, 103, 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, 204, 383, 384, 385, and 401 North County - 425, 504, 505, 605, 950, RIBS 1, RIBS 2, RIBS 3 and RIBS 4 In addition, Supplemental Express Service will be provided from Herndon-Monroe and Reston East Park-and-Rides to and from West Falls Church VT/UVA Metrorail Station.
PRTC-all routes in operation except one
OmniLink-no off-route trips
The Bus-12, 13, 20, 21, 22, 25, 30, 32, 33, 51
15 Express will begin service at 9 a.m.
11, 15, 16 will begin service at Noon
21 Express will operate if PGCC is open
All this info is again mine
Most, I believe I was the one who first found the ART info. Naturally, Tristan forgot it was "Take away credit from Tristan week" this week, so the fact I didn't credit him is excusable ;-)
JK
Yay I get a week named after me and most of the area had it off :)
The Bus ones humor me. For one the 15 express would only run one trip in the morning if that is so. That run stops running from New Carrolton at 8:30 and the last morning trip from Greenbelt leaves at 8:50. They should have just said only afternoon service. The 21 express ran when PGCC was on winter break and had noone on them when I saw them. Awwww The Bus crappy buses
and routes they sometimes they don't know what to do with, ha! ha!
The following school districts are closed:
Montgomery County
Fairfax County
Alexandria
DCPS
PG County
Anne Arundel Conuty (and Thursday, too)
Calvert County
Charles County
Arlington County
Falls Church City
Fauquier County
Loundon Conuty (for rest of week)
Manassas City
Prince William County
Spotsylvannia County
Stafford County
Don't forget the 'ol University in College Park ;-)
That's not a school district...forgotten :p
I ask cause I wanna ride with you tommorow on your 21 and 84 trips.Let
me know if you'll be able to make it to work tommorow,what with the snow and all.
Yes I am, I return to the gates of hell, oops I mean Rockland Coach today!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Sorry man,It's gonna be on Friday when I'll see you.I had one hell of a day today and I'm beat.Sides I don't wanna miss something I watch on TV every Thursday anyway so I'll just rest tommorow and see ya on Friday instead.Sorry.
Yo Trev,I was wondering if the 21 stops in the front,middle or rear of gate 220 at PABT.I'm not sure at all.Hell better yet,is it ok if I rode with you starting with your relief trip on the 11C?Cause I just know the first two seats are gonna be taken when I get there for the 21.It's the PABT and it's the rush hour,that gate has definantly gotta be packed and god only knows how many people want the 21.
Get to the back door of Gate 220 at 5:50 and you'll have the front seat!
Trevpr
Alright,I'll do that.see you then.
Hmm...!!
I've noticed all of these threads with V Train asking Trev about all of this.... Ooh!! Someone's gota a crush! :-D
Busfan, now this!
No not really...why? Heh,heh,heh....you and everyone else is about to find out in another thread I'm about to put up.
Well, given your postings, I'd still think you love him otherwise. Don't worry, I hold nothing against you.
Took a nice train 'n bus expedition this past Sunday afternoon, figuring the buses and roads would be nice and empty, and that it would be my last chance for a while due to the impending snowstorm.
Everything went great for a while: fast ride on Q44 (1993 Orion) over Whitestone Bridge; faster ride on relatively empty 2/5 express shuttle to 149th; (4500-series RTS out of Hudson); front window of Redbird 5 express to Brooklyn Bridge; front window of Mod-40 J to Broadway Junction, where I got a 8900-series B24 (great speed on Atlantic straightaway and bend under Conduit overpass). At Crescent, there was a Williamsburg-bound 9100-series B13 that waited for me to connect. Decent speed uphill and downhill on Cypress Hills; difficult right turn from Cooper onto 62nd due to illegal double parkers.
Got off at Myrtle & 62nd to catch Q55 to Richmond Hill. After checking the Guide-a-Ride (the RH-bound 55 stop was right around the corner from the Williamsburg-bound 13 stop), which indicated I had seven minutes, I crossed 62nd to grab a warming cup of coffee at a deli, then back to the bus stop. At that point, a cruiser from the 104th Precinct pulled up in the stop.
The young officer in the passenger seat asked me how I was doing. I said OK, just waiting for the bus. He asked if that was a beer in the paper bag I was holding. I pulled out the coffee cup to show him it wasn't. (And what if I was carrying a CLOSED beer in the bag? And what if I intended not to drink it on the bus, but to open it when I arrived at my destination? Is it illegal to carry a closed beer in public?) You'd think that would be the end of it, but after a few seconds, the officer at the wheel, also young, asked me for ID!!
I produced my driver's license, which they passed back and forth to each other while studying my face for an agonizing period of time- maybe thirty seconds. Finally, I asked if there was anything wrong. One officer inquired as to why I was so far from Flushing, my address as shown on my license. I explained that I was waiting for a bus home. They asked (a) why wasn't I driving?; and (b) why I'd be coming off a bus (the 13) to wait for a bus here, when the bus I was waiting for doesn't GO to Flushing; (c) why wasn't I waiting on Fresh Pond for the bus that DOES go to Flushing (the 58)? I couldn't help but feel impressed that they would even KNOW this much, since most young officers live nowhere near the area where they're assigned.
Their line of questioning implied they had seen me get off the 13, check the Guide-a-Ride, go into the deli and then back to the 55 stop. I quickly explained that my car was in repairs, and that I was going from a friend in East New York to another friend in Kew Gardens before going home. With a look of amusement, they asked "You rode all these buses on a cold day like this?" I was afraid to give an honest answer- that I actually was riding these buses for fun as a hobbyist- for fear they would run me in. Just carrying a paper bag got me the third degree. An abiding respect for authority and a desire to stay out of jail kept me from asking why this was their business, and that if they were looking to issue summonses, there were plenty of illegal parkers blocking buses a couple of blocks back on 62nd.
They finally let me off the hook, advising me to "be careful". (Of what, exactly?) Incidentally, while I was being detained, the Richmond Hill-bound 55 that I originally stated I was waiting for, passed by. Aside from the indignity of being made to miss it and have to wait in the bitter cold another fifteen minutes, it was from the 1990 8000-series, which are capable of great speed on the Myrtle straightaway through Forest Park- as well the Metropolitan straightaway through the cemetery, the double railroad underpass/bypass on Flushing Avenue, and the LIE service road through Flushing Meadow. The next Q55 was a 1999 5000-series, which always SEEM slower due to their loud, growling engines.
Just missed two Kew-bound Q10s at Jamaica & Lefferts, but a third- a 1985 RTS with green seats and roll sign- was right behind. There were several people at the 260th/Glen Oaks stand for the Q46 who were absolutely AMAZED when told that branch doesn't run on weekends anymore. ("But I took it THIS MORNING!" "You mean I gotta WALK all the way from the Turnpike in this cold?!")
A Nova suburban in the high 9200s filled up fast. Some people were pleased with the deluxe seating; others- obviously versed in what happens when these buses are crowded- were annoyed. A number of people put their packages on the seats next to them, causing more standees- which made the aisle even more impassible than usual. I opted to stand near the back, since I was just going to Main Street. The heavy passenger load meant a slow ride uphill to 141st. A 1999 Orion Q20A immediately arrived to take me home.
I recounted my experience to a couple of friends who are active and retired NYPD members. They said that technically an officer CAN ask me for identification, but NOT where I'm going and where I'm coming from. Chances are that they were bored, what with the cold weather keeping beer-drinking kids out of school yards. They recommended I report this to the 104th's community affairs officer.
And I was told that I was absolutely right NOT to tell the officers I was busfanning. That might've got me brought in for suspiscion of something- or taken away by the men in the white coats. People in authority, and those who aren't bus fans just WOULDN'T understand!
That is your right to busfan. And why do cops ask such stupid questions? "Why are you so far away from your neighborhood?".................
Because, contrary to popular belief, the United States is not a free country. Many years ago, well before terrorism was on anybody's mind, I was asked the same question by cops on Staten Island, after I was the VICTIM of a "mugging" (some young punks stole an old beat up radio I was carrying). This occured back around 1978.
Howard's experience sounds ridiculous. WHat is it their business?! "Why are you so far from your neighborhood?" Who cares, what is it their business? What, are we supposed to do, not leave our neighborhoods?
I got pulled over in my car once, and was asked similar questions, like why are you driving in this neighborhood, when you don't live anywhere near hear? He even asked me why I was not at work (it was a weekday, Wednesday). What is it his business if I have off on a Wednesday or not, or if I was unemployed, or took a day off, or left work for a few hours, or whatever? Then, "where are you going". "If you are going there, why would you be on this road?" He didn't even have a reason for pulling me over. He said it was a "safety check" or something. After checking my liscence and about 10 more ludicrous questions he said, "Okay, have a nice day.", and walked away.
I think Howard's questioning is even more ludicrous than that one! But I don't understand the nonsense!
Those cops from the 104th Precinct(in Ridgewood) are a bunch of @$$holes. That is the most racist/crooked Police Precient in New York City. They have undercover officers in a grey van with tinted windows, lurking around Ridgewood looking for anyone that looks the slightest bit suspicious. Those b@st@ards have nothing better to do than to bother people who have done anything wrong, like you. My brother is a police officer who works in Brooklyn, and even him and some of the officers he works with say the 104th is a piece of $hit. If you've noticed, it's mostly whites, you won't find any blacks/hispanics working there. They will do anything to write someone up, so they can show their boss they did something.
I really didn't want to sound this offensive in the post, but THIS IS THE TRUTH! Those crooked cops at the 104th can kiss my ass. I would recommend NO ONE TO WORK AT THAT $HITHOLE! THEY CAN BURN IN HELL!!!
Tell us how you really feel???????
You can't say racism was the motive behind these officers grilling me. They were white. I'm white. Maybe they detained me because they felt pressured by negative publicity concerning a largely white police force harrassing a largely minority civilian community. Who's to say? Ridgewood is like many older communities in the outer boroughs- it's seen a large segment of its white, European, blue-collar working class population diminish due to age and retirement, to be replaced by similarly working class Latins and Asians.
More likely, as my police officer friends suggested, they were bored and looking for action, and figured a middle-aged white guy of medium build like myself wouldn't pose much of a threat. They may have been lectured by their superiors on the importance of maintaining security in these tenuous times- and of helping to rectify the city's severe budget deficit (TRANSLATION: Summonses, and lots of them!).
None of this, however, makes their excessive and superfluous questioning justifiable. If I were waiting at a bus stop in a really bad neighborhood in the middle of the night during a storm, it might be understandable for police officers to approach me to see if I needed assistance. But if waiting for a bus on a Sunday afternoon is grounds for an ID check, well- I dunno.
Ironically, the only previous time I had my chops busted by police was after I got ROBBED at the Far Rockaway LIRR station because the crew on the train due to depart wouldn't open the doors so I could escape the approaching mob of teenage miscreants. The LIRR officers at Penn Station were less than sympathetic: "You live in College Point [at the time]; what were you doing in Far Rockaway?"; "You're a big guy; you could've thrown a punch." My answers were, respectively, "Because I was visiting a relative at a nursing home and don't have a car" (false, but it sounds better than to say I was railfanning); "I didn't feel safe riding the A train" (partly true; it was school dismissal time, and I was in a hurry to get to a seminar at the Penta Hotel); "I wouldn't feel safe taking on a bunch of kids by myself." I suppressed the urge to add "-who might have knives, guns or God knows what, and could kill me without any of that stuff."
None of this did any good, and the officers closed the case on me right then and there, suggesting I stay out of rough neighborhoods.
This post, by the way, is NOT INTENDED to bash our fine, overworked police force- just its lethargic and/or overzealous members.
You just can't read into one event to know why the police did what they did. Could the police have been annoyed that you were going to brazenly drink a beer in public (or so they thought) right in front of them that they decided to question you? Or, more cynically, did they think that by perhaps if they had reason to "stop and frisk" you that they would then have the ability to "stop and frisk" someone else at a later time and their stats would still be in balance?
Who knows? Maybe there's a white middle aged criminal in the area whose descriptions you fit.
All this reminds me of an event 10 years ago in Washington Heights. At the time, I lived in New Jersey and worked out at an indoor track on 168th Street. One night, I drove in and was driving on 171st or 172nd looking for a place to park. Seemingly out of nowhere I was stopped by a patrol car and questioned for about 10-15 minutes (seemed like hours) about why I was in the neighborhood, where I was going, why I hadn't taken the train etc etc. Of course, at that time Washington Heights had a terrible crime/drugs problem -- driven mainly by buyers coming off the GW Bridge from NJ. So was I racially profiled (white guy with NJ license plates driving slowly down side streets) and harassed -- probably yes. Is the neighborhood far better off today at least in part because of police tactics that I was subjected too -- probably yes too.
CG
Well I hope those kids didnt steal too much from you, nonetheless, sounds like a very frightening experience. How long ago did this happen? Far Rockaway hasnt been the best of areas for awhile, though you'd think all the conductors on an LIRR train would deter troublemakers.
As an old friend of mine once said "stay out of the subways when the kids let out" and its still true, only exception is in midtown.
This incident occurred in December '85. I had taken a day off to take care of some stuff, and to railfan on a weekday schedule. After riding the A to Far Rockaway, I walked two blocks to the LIRR terminal to get a train back to Penn Station in time for a workshop being held at a hotel across the street- and because I'd never ridden the Far Rockaway branch inbound.
I timed it so I would get to the LIRR station just in time for the train to depart. Unfortunately, the train doors were closed, and the crew ignored my pleas to open the door so I could escape the approaching mob. Only AFTER the damage was done did they open the door, with the explanation that "they're afraid to because it's a bad neighborhood and they don't want to get robbed."
They only got the money in my wallet, about $30, and tossed me back the wallet- how nice of them! No physical harm was inflicted on my person. The LIRR police seemed to take the attitude that (a) I was stupid and/or insane to be in such a bad neighborhood; (b) the train crew is not obligated to protect me from outside elements on the platform- which, by the way, IS LIRR property and presumably their responsibility); and (c) I should be GLAD they only got cash and didn't do anything to me, implying that these two facts meant I had no right to file a complaint. They sent me on my way without any kind of compensation- duly noting that my ATM card was still in my wallet.
This treatment was almost more galling than the robbery itself. In the aftermath, I filed complaints with the LIRR for the cavalier attitude toward a crime victim on the part their law enforcement personnel AND for the dangerous actions of the train crew. And the NYPD for not having a better police presence at the (only) street entrance to the LIRR Far Rockaway terminal. To evoke an old Yiddish expression, for my troubles I got "bupkiss" (sp?).
Even though this was over 17 years ago, it still burns in my craw- especially in light of this past Sunday's encounter. BUT IT'S NOT GONNA STOP ME FROM RAIL OR BUSFANNING!!
LIRR really does neglect their Queens stations, and the stuff that you'd find at their stations in Nassau or Suffolk is vacant in "city zone" stations. But Far Rockaway is a terminal, and technically not city zone.
There are probably quite a few dangerous LIRR stations in City Zone, the most, believe it or not, would probably be Murray Hill on the Port Washington branch, since it seems the most poorly lit, decrepid LIRR station there is. And its in an open cut. Wouldnt want to be waiting alone for the train there, even in daytime. Hardly anyone ever uses is it.
If you were black/hispanic they would've they would've laughed at you and made you look like an @$$, trust me. There was an incident like this that happened to my female cousin, but I don't want to go into details, doing so will force me to post some very vulgar things...
That is the reason I have such a cold view of them.
Stop the " racist" crap. This has to be the most overused/misused word. Too many people seem to use it as an excuse why they are not more of a success in ths world. This is a large part why some african americans are doomed to a life of anger. (anyone notice the head of AOL Time Warner is African American) They use the racist excuse. The facts are in this world, race is not an issue for those who wish to and put the work in to succeed
The above commentary is the opinion of one of my best freinds. We have been hanging out since High School. She grew up in the projects in East New York and graduated from Harvard Business School this past December. She is an African American . She always tell me that people in her community need to focus on what is needed to done to succeed. Hard work, sacrifice, dedication. She is proof that this works
My college room mate Danny was harased constantly for being too white because he focused on his education. danny is 6' 6'' 300 lb offensive lineman on the football team.
The people who really should be crying "racisim" are asians. They are just as poor or sometimes poor then african americans. A bigger minority than african americans. Yet they recieve no prefeerntial treatment and with lots of hard work they do very well. Keep in mind that where many chinease come from in china there is no schooling or very little schooling.
Go out to the suburbs. The actions the above bus fan described is a common occurance in all white area's. People don't mind because they are not doing anything wrong and have nothing to fear. They kind of like it because it discourages sometimes criminals from commitiing crimes. it is seen as a bennifit that police are investigating suspicious activities not just responding to crimes that already have occured. If you cooperate and show respect (whether or not it is shoen to you) the police will let you go on your way. Tripple-A auto club runs article of how to act when pulled over. The #1 thing to do is to show respect, cooperate fully. I used this to get out of wuite a few tickets
>>>The facts are in this world, race is not an issue for those who wish to and put the work in to succeed <<<
If you truly believe that, you have issues.
Peace,
ANDEE
and i used my mta pass to get out of a few tickets.
Do you know that HR departments at many fortune 500 companies struggle to find enough quilfied black and hispanic candidates for many positions in accounting, finace,marketing biomedical and engineering departments. Many Fortune 500 companies have realized over the years that a diversified work force is benificial to thier business. IBM is a prime example.
Source : workforce magazine http://www.workforce.com/
Millions of dollars in scholarships from both private and public sources set aside for black and hispanic students go uncliamed each year. They either do not find enough applicants or can not find enough quilified applicants.
The playing feild has been leveled. It is a tough world out there. One must have a stick skin. You should not confuse jeoulsy and envy with racism. They are too separate animals. The problem in many urban areas is there is a lack of role models and too few guildence cousolers to show students the path to success.
The easiest way to climb into the middle class is to become a registered nurse or teacher. Both have shortages of quilified applicants. Both jobs have plenty of oppurtunities to make money with secound jobs
1) Nurse - Work 10-13 12 hour shifts per mounth. Since there is a shortage there is plenty of room for overtime. One can make more money working for an agency which ussually pay higher wage to work at another hospitol . My ex girlfreind was making $45 a hour working additonal hours as a temp nurse on top of her regualur shift. she was saving up for a house
2) Teacher- $39,000 starting salary. Depending on what your masters degree is in there is after school work ranging from $20-100 an hour. the intrepid teacher puts in the extra work so that they can live better. The lazy teacher(and there are plenty in NYC) do not
Race or color of one's skin does not prevent one from doing any of the above. In fact it helps you. It is alot of work to get a degree, but it opens new doors. And above all it get's one away from the petty competition for a small pool of blue colar jobs.
I usually hate to use race in my posts but I agree with you, race IS a big issue for many things.
AGREED.
It's too bad that these cops questioned you for so long - which in my opinion is at least border-line harassment. I understand that they have a job to do, but I think that once they established that you weren't drinking a beer and saw your ID they should've been on their way. Why is it that they feel they have a right to ask people anything about where they're going or coming from. I agree with you answers to them because they definitely could've made you out to be "suspicious". I still rail and busfan, but I must say that I've pretty much stopped taking photos of buses/trains.
Wayne
Wait a minute -- since when are we required to carry ID to ride a bus?
Welcome to the police state, my friend! Now you dont even need a camera to get in trouble. Geesh!
I betcha they dont bother this many people in CHINA!
I can't believe they did that bullshit to you; if you were a minority it probably would have been a LOT WORSE. These cops had nothing to do, they were bored and was just looking for some action and to incite trouble[you HAVE those]; and what's up with all the silly questions its NONE of their business where you're going unless you're lost. BTW, *SMART* decision not to say you were busfanning, if you did you would been in the back of the squad car and been in the 104 for a coulpe of hours at least. You should file a complaint but I don't know how far you're gonna get.
I don't see a reason for a complaint. The police officer's saw something they thought was suspicious and they investigated. I applaud the police officer's for their efforts. In a day with nearly 2 feet of snow on the ground it would have been much easier for the officers to just stay in thier car and do nothing.
do you go railfanning, busfanning? are you white or not? that could be you, your views will change soon enough. What do you think of Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo? of course if you are Arab, then....... you should expect to be mistaken for a terrorist and spend lots of time talking to police.
I'm NOT going to agree with your comment b/c if that was YOU, I'm sure you would not be saying what you just did say; it shows ALL people get stopped for no reason however minorities, African Americans & Hispanics in particular get stopped DISPROPORTIONATELY. He bought a cup of coffee I believe that's what he said and how would THAT resemble beer? That's exactly what they should of done, stay in the car and *DO NOTHING*!
I totally disagree. If they honestly thought he was drinking a beer, then fine... go ahead and question the guy about it. I'll even give the the benefit of the doubt in asking to see ID, but to ask him about where he's going, why he's not driving they went overboard. My feeling is that he had every right to assert himself when the line of questioning started. However, knowing how many folks get mysterious injuries (some fatal) when dealing with the NYPD - I'm glad this fellow managed to not lose control. He should file a complaint - This stuff is simply ridiculous.
...and some folks wonder why the police are disliked (and feared) so much. It's not a coincidence.
Wayne
Um, you wouldn't be saying that if that was you. Those cops don't really care about the people, they only care about giving fines so they can make more money and impress their boss. Trust me, I LIVE AROUND THESE @$$HOLES!!!
"In a day with nearly 2 feet of snow on the ground it would have been much easier for the officers to just stay in thier car and do nothing."
This was Sunday afternoon, BEFORE the storm hit. Ya think I'd be crazy enough to embark on an involved bus trip like that AFTER the storm hit? (OK, maybe some Bustalkers WOULD be-) Besides, the officers didn't come out of their car; they called ME over. Now, if they saw me waiting for the bus at the height of the storm, that would have been decent cause for them to check me out further.
(From what I hear, when a motorist is pulled over for a traffic stop, the officer doesn't walk over to the motorist anymore; the motorist is expected to walk over to the cruiser- something that's raised some big safety issues if it's a woman being stopped, late at night, bad weather, in a bad neighborhood, next to high-speed traffic, or any combination thereof.)
Trust me, those Ridgewood cops are @$$holes. Did you remember when there was an incident in Ridgewood Theater, where a hispanic woman in her forties was killed? Did the 104th do anything to stop it? They didn't really care. The 104th is the worst police precinct in NYC. Even THE BROOKLYN POLICE DEPARTMENT LAUGHS AT THEM!!!
Now the 83th Police Precinct in Bushwick is something I'll respect. They actually do the job their suppose to do, they actually fight crime, unlike the crappy 104th.
Yeah I remember that a while back, very sad & it could of been avoided. They're a bunch of greedy asses, butt kissing their bosses to get more money :-\. And we thought the ones like the 40 Pct was bad & corrupt [which they were but this at 104 looks worse]......
I would have shown them the contents of my bag, showed my I.D., told them I was busfanning, informed them their other questions were none of their business, let them arrest me, retain a lawyer and sue the shit out of the NYPD for false arrest.
End of story.
BIG AL
Sue for false arrest; I say the suit would be for unnecessary harassment. These cops think they could bully people all the time and get away with that shit >:-0.
How can you proove unnecessary harassment? There is no paper trail to base a law suit on. It is your word against the cops. The suit would go no where and no lawyer would want to take it. I say let them arrest you, start a paper trail (believe me, arrests create reports) and the attorneys will be knocking at your door.
BIG AL
True and in a way they would be violating your civil rights.
Good luck with your suit, Al. With all of the crap that fills the legal system, you'll be lucky to testify.
[...let them arrest me....]
That could be a risky proposition - some employers treat being arrested (even falsely) as grounds for immediate and summary dismissal.
True-I'll add my job loss to the law suit.
BIG AL
That would be a good idea and it is fair b/c you would lose a lot of potential earnings.
You may not realize it, but you really missed a good money making opportunity there, fella!
BIG AL
Yeah, it was a great opportunity, but he was afraid of these people and he made some very good decisions under the circumstances.
True. Being under scrutiny like that, it isn't worth the risk.
Railfans are havbing this problem, now busfans too?
This is getting too far. Police sohlud be concentrating on more pertinent things like keeping their asses out of things like this.
I know, I agree with you CP that is just ridiculous however *IF* he somehow posed a threat that's a different story.
Hmm, well I think the question to ask is what justifies as a possible threat? I think the police have yet to develop standards for that.
What were you going to do if you were just riding the buses. In addition if you showed them that you had a coffee cup, it doesn't mean that people wouldn't put beer into a coffee cup mind you.
#3 West End Jeff
Some of you guys may remember me from posts last week..I am still checking the board out..just in case I get my answers ( fat chance I think ! ) I just want to say it's a sad world when what must be one of the world's most benign and harmless hobbies......buses, can cause all the problems it seems to do for hobbyists. I had no idea...but am having some as I read various posts here.
Presumably you know of a very famous Brit TV comedy from the 70's called 'On the buses'....it ran for years and, was was extremely popular. I think you can get videos of the series via internet methods. It starred a guy called Reg Varney......and centered on the lives of a bus driver and conductor and their hated dispatcher.
Just the ticket !
Presumably you know of a very famous Brit TV comedy from the 70's called 'On the buses'....it ran for years and, was was extremely popular. I think you can get videos of the series via internet methods. It starred a guy called Reg Varney......and centered on the lives of a bus driver and conductor and their hated dispatcher.
Sounds like 'Taxi', the 1970's show that launched the movie careers of Danny DeVito and Christopher Lloyd.
I've always thought that a bus company would make a great setting for a TV comedy. The drivers who are characters, the idiotic passengers they encounter, the dispatchers/managers with a hair across their you-know-what ... in the right hands, the show could run for years.
Jim D.
Wasn't there a show similar to that on NBC with John Laroquette? (sp?)
I thought that was a bus station they worked in and it revolved around John, a police officer, and the people in the diner there.
But, more of a show about what you're describing would be pretty funny. I think its doable.
a google search " on the buses reg varney " gives 500 plus hits with lotsa videos and they even did a movie
poet
HERE IS THE SHOW you're looking for.
Peace,
ANDEE
Thanks! I liked that show. It didn't last all that long, but it was pretty funny. Of course, his role on Night Court was the best.
The best thing about that show was that it reflected his real life.
Peace,
ANDEE
This one is for the bus drivers and everyday commuters out there.
What characters would be a must on a 'Taxi'-type TV sitcom about a bus company?
Both operations personnel and passengers are fair game.
Have at it!
Jim D.
Just heard on my scanner that a LI Bus just plowed into the Hempstead bus terminal, there are multiple injuries. Sounds like the bus skidded past the curb and into the terminal.
More on this later.
Breaking News
A bus plowed into the Hempstead Bus Terminal at about 1:50 this afternoon. The front of the bus is inside the terminal. Nassau police say seven people are injured from the accident. The bus terminal has been evacuated; ambulance and fire personnel are on the scene. Tune in to News 12 Long Island for the latest on the Hempstead bus accident.
Peace,
ANDEE
See http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-libus0220,0,3191836.story?coll=ny%2Dlinews%2Dheadlines
Speculation is that it was a malfunction -- roadway looks clear behind the bus.
CG
The malfunction that is mentioned is something I have heard quite frequently with the buses using the Cummins L10G engine, such as the bus involved, was using.
They sound quite unstable and often rev on their own. This may lead to their downfall, and the final recommendation may be to repower these with the Series 50 gas version like the newer buses.
Where I drive buses, we used to have a bunch of Cummins L10 engines....and they had a nasty habit of having the throttle spring break and the engine would go to full power.
Orion V CNG #229 to be exact on the N32 route. This bus will be out of service for a while to come.
Now isn't this convincing evidence that the Onions are such horrible buses? I think these Onion buses are horrible mechanical wise-especially the CNG buses. They can never run properly.
I think that's the reason for the delay for the Onion 7 Hybrid and CNG Order-mechanical malfunctions. They should cancel that order altogether and order some more C40LFs but the heck with the CNG junk-get some Hybrid Electric Buses.
Hey QTrain: Repowering those Onions will make them even worse-you will NOT go above 35mph on any bus unless if you are lucky.
I feel very sad for the families of the victims especially for the lady who lost her leg.
CNG=Completely No Good Onion Buses.
229 and all of those lousy Onions should be scrapped. They SUCK!
Bring back Fishbowls and RTS Buses!
#1979 X1
Now isn't this convincing evidence that the Onions are such horrible buses?
Well, if it turns out to be an engine malifunction as suspected, that is more of a Cummins issue than an Orion issue. For years, the Orion V has been a solid workhorse in the PAT fleet.
As far as CNG goes, not a big fan at all. The PAT Orion V CNG coaches can barely make it through the evening rush without running out of fuel and the New Flyer C35LF coaches up here in Erie are much more unreliable than their diesel counterparts.
Damn and I was out in LI today.But I was in Hicksville and Sunrise Mall not Hempstead even though I compteplated going there.Good thing I didn't.
i did go to work today. Caught the usual B1 to the B8. Came back to Ulmer PArk garage after work and caught sight of #4784,#7514,#7511 and #4763 still parked out of service in the back. Did see #4330,#4331(carrying a M11 sign) and #4332(had a Queens Map inside). Also caught sight of #3970(on the B6) and #3962 heading on the B6. I talked to a driver and he informed me that Ulmer Park does have one 8500-the number being #8565. Sadly, the bus is out of service getting repaired. Is this a sight of things to come or just a rumor? We shall have to see.
B1-#4791-RTS II-06
B8-#8696-TMC
Damn I was on that bus about 2 weeks ago on the B65 Line.
I suspect that bus broke down and was towed to Ulmer Park for repairs since it was probably the closest depot. That is not uncommon. When the transfers start, it will not be with 8565. And as far as I know, Gleason still has not received in any new buses to start transferring out their RTS's.
BIG AL
Hey Big Al, you spoiled it for caine824. I know you're most likely correct, but when he reads this, it will dissappoint him.
Yeah, I know I may have spoiled it for him, but I saved a bunch of false rumors from starting up on this board.
BIG AL
It appears that WMATA's artics are still hibernating. I drove along Georgia Ave briefly twice today and I saw only Flxible METRO B & D's on the 70 line. I imagine there were some Orion V's on the 70 too. About 30 inutes ago I saw 8916 leaving Silver Spring with a standing load.
Wayne
I did see some NABI's roaming around downtown and union station.
Today I saw 5158 running on the 84(although the rear route # sign said 849). Wasn't this bus at Arlington? Also saw 3909 on the 9A and it seemed appropriate that it was in that there was noone on board. Also saw 9387 deadheading to either Royal(it is a Royal bus) or to FMR. Saw 9212 on Shirley Highway going towards the Pentagon and last but not least, saw 2368 with the greeting "GOOD EVENING" at 8:30 in the morning. The-the-the -the-the-the-that's all folks.
I rode 2 Novas on the B24 yesterday: 9151 and 9174. Also Novas were the only buses that I saw on that route: 9580 9590 and 5063 were among the others.
And FYI I'd rather have old junky RTS buses than those Shoeboxes I like to call Onions (Orions).
Onions-Grumman's Second Generation...of crap!
#9151 B24
If it was late in the day, you can thank me for that. I only send out Novas after 6pm.
BIG AL
I might stop over at Fresh Pond this Sunday, I will be at the ramp once again. Hey, I was talking to Ray a few days ago(by IM), and asked him to stop by one day. We were thinking of something like a Fresh Pond tour, which we wanted to do awhile ago. We can have a few bustalkers, who are interested, that can stop by. But I don't want this to happen yet, maybe one or two months from now. What do you think?
id be up for this-i have never been in Fresh Pond before. Im game.
B1-#4854 TMCRTS
B64-#7517-Remanufactured
I'm game. Here's an ugly moment for DaRidgewood:
Last time I was at FP I got pics of 3011 3036 3048 4201 and a few 4600 4700 series.
#3011 Q58-OLD SCHOOL
OO, that was uncalled for ;-).
Let's review: 3011, dumped from UP and FB, 3036, 3048 dumped from FB, 4201 (one that really makes DaRidgewood boil), dumped from KB, and the 4600s and 4700s all original JGs, UPs, and FBs. Does that make any Brooklyn bustalker happy? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And 3001-3022 & 3279-3292 was dumped from Manhattan [forgot which depot(s)]. Man besides the Novas at FP, EVERYTHING else is Hand Me Downs.
The new Hand Me Downs: KB,HP,MV,QV
1985 GM: came from JAM, a few ENY originals
4658-4752[with gaps]: JG,UP,FB originals
1990/1991 TMC: FB originals
No way that makes the Brooklynites happy, especially in Fresh Pond :-\
Everything pre-1990 in Brooklyn is hand-me-downs, except good old 4014, an ENY original still alive in ENY. Why can't 4135 and 4145 come back? MV is certainly taking good care of 4145 (still runs great, spotted it and 3474 speeding down 5th Avenue on Tuesday), albeit I'm not sure of the state of 4135 at HP.
The 1987/1988 TMC's [4600-4752] are Brooklyn originals but were bounced around over the years.
4600-4682: started at 5 Av/JG, none are there now except 4643-4651 when it came home from ENY in September
4683-4730: started at UP, now at FP
4731-4752: started at FB, now at FP
"4731-4752: started at FB, now at FP"
4730 was part of that group as well.
Da Beastmaster
Everything pre-1990 in Brooklyn is hand-me-downs, except good old 4014, an ENY original still alive in ENY. Why can't 4135 and 4145 come back? MV is certainly taking good care of 4145 (still runs great, spotted it and 3474 speeding down 5th Avenue on Tuesday), albeit I'm not sure of the state of 4135 at HP. I still don't understand why 3669 had to die last summer, it was running well still.
4135 may have been scrapped. Haven't seen it in quite some time.
Best Advice: Check near HP Depot. 4165 HAS TO GO!!!
#4135 Q32
Don't forget the 4052, that bus was worse than the 3997!
I remember the worst FP bus I had on the Q59: 3309!
I had 3011 on the Q58 once and to be honest that bus ran quite well.
I also remember riding on 3712 and I have a pic as proof.
And here's something to gross DaRidgewood out: I have a pic somewhere of 1855 on the Q59. YES 1855! LMAO!
So I guess FP has had it bad for quite some time now. Tsk Tsk! So has SE Queens. It's Brooklyn's turn now!!!
#3712 Q59
FP has gotton more crap dumped on them then QV and JA put together.
3001-3022 came from 126th Street and PA3279-PA3292 came from HUD.
Wayne
Thanks for the exact depots Wayne, I knew they came from somewhere in Manhattan.
Hmm, I'd like to meet you Ridgewood and other Bustalkers so I'm down with that.
This is going to be good. But right now, the weather isn't great for it. I'm hoping to set this up during March or April, where the weather will get nicer.
I will leave an e-mail for Ray, and explain how we're going to do this.
What exactly are you guys planning on touring? Sorry, but non-employees are not allowed on the property at any time right now in our heightened security awareness.
BIG AL
Yeah, I know about your hate for the Orions; trust me you'd want the shoeboxes before Hand Me Down junk, well maybe not in your view ;-).
Let's see, on the Q55 I seen 4686, 4730, 9181, 9583, and gasp, 3986. Let's just say Fresh Pond being RTS excusive is good, but bad at the same time(because of old hand-downs).
Yeah, I'm glad to see to Novas dominating the night. I seen the 9154 yesterday on the Q55.
Saw 2 RTS buses at CS today while on R36 9542. 1 was 4916 and I knew why this bus was there-for training purposes b/c it is a training bus for QV.
The other bus was 4524. Now what in the blue hell is that bus doing there? Has anyone seen it in service? Is it a NYPD bus for CS?
Scrap for parts (seats for 100 Onions)? Info is needed and appreciated.
I sure wish CS was getting RTS again. Anything is better than the Shoeboxes they have there now.
#4916 TRAINING
Forgot to add 1 point and how could I forget this:
And yes it's about an Onion! Saw 6139 on a Flatbed truck. The bus looked dead to me. I remember getting a pic of 6137 on a truck last year. See Transitalk for details.
It's just proof that Onions bring tears to your eyes!
#997 X51
4524 is a Rodeo Bus only. Check the UTCNY NYCT Bus Roster.
4524 used to be stored at the College Point Storage Yard, along with a very old "Fishbowl"-type bus, but they're now both parked at CS. Why, I really don't know...
As for 4916 being there, well, that's news to me! Maybe Stengel's plannin' on getting some RTSs traded in. Perhaps this has something to do with the tardiness of that Artic order....
He's been off the board for quite awhile. Does anyone know if he's ok?
While I haven't e-mailed Fred "Flxible" lately, he has been posting on the Yahoo A1 Model Bus Group so I guess he's okay. His e-mail is ----flxible169 @ yahoo.com
Thanks! I'll have to email him to say hello.
Please do. Looking forward to hearing from you!
-F.
Maybe he's taking another vacation at the Greybar Resort.
Very funny. That's Steve Hoskins for you; more cheap shots than a 50 cent water gun. :)
-F.
But at least he doesn't turn a bus model into a complete abortion...
You know, God teaches us to love our enemies. I love you, Steve. :)
Oooooooo that stings! You know the rule to life, You'll catch flies quicker with Honey then you would with Vinegar!
Well, that is true. Good point, Trevor.
-F.
A. I am an atheist.
B. No guy is going to love me.
C. Now go away.
I too wonder where he's been.
Hello everyone; it's been a while, but here is something interesting that I wanted to share with all of you. For the past little while, I have been seeing someone who has become very close to me; in fact, one morning when she dropped me off at the end of my street to catch a bus, she told me those three little words as I was heading out of the car. Just then, the bus rolls up, and it is no. 0109. One day, I repeated that number to her on the phone, and she questioned what it meant, then I told her that was the bus that rolled up when she first said it. So that is now our code for those three little words....whenever she sees it roll by, she calls me, and vice versa. Needless to say, my girlfriend has become somewhat of a busfan.
Fast forward to Valentine's Day; shortly before that, I told a driver friend of mine about the above, and he "reserved" no. 0109 for his route on that day, so I made reservations at a nice Italian restaurant along the 71, which is his normal route. So I ride a bus to her place in a suit and tie, pick her up, and we proceed to ride downtown to transfer. And what appears next to her wondering eyes? 0109! Needless to say, she was quite impressed. So we rode on to dinner, then around the corner to a restored 1930s Art Deco theatre to watch a Spanish film entitled "Talk To Her"...what a movie.
Toward the night's end, there were no buses out as service ends here at 8:45; she is also a taxi enthusiast (a born New Yorker, I tell you), so I called Yellow Cab, and we rode back to my place. To my delight, it was a Chevy Caprice...my favorite taxi cab of all time, so it was a special treat for both of us.
And to cap off the night, I gave her a special present...some time ago, she was watching me work on a Road Champs Flxible Metro model that I was converting into a Grumman 870. As I was removing the Sutrak with a hacksaw, she said "What's that?", and I told her it was an A/C unit from the top of the bus. So she said, "Can I keep it"? Though I could use it on another model, I agreed, but she forgot to take it with her. So I took it into my shop, stripped it down to bare metal, filed down the edges, polished it to a high luster, and made a hole for a chain. I then placed it onto a silver necklace and gave it to her on that special night; when she turned it over, she found it was engraved on the back side...it reads "0109". She loved her handmade gift and it is very dear to her.
My girlfriend went on to say that I made this her best Valentine's Day ever, and we had a great time. And the great thing about it was that she got to brag to everyone at the office that she was being chauffeured to a nice dinner in a 35-foot stretch limo...LOL!
So how was everyone else's Valentine's Day? :)
-F.
Well I was by myself as usual, havent had a girlfriend for years, and I've tried. However there is this one girl I am still very intereested in, and although she says she's seeing someone, I still want her so badly.
She is a teller at my local bank, and the first time I saw her back in the fall I felt something I havent felt in awhile. She is so sweet and kind to me, but when I asked her out she said she was seeing someone.
Her name is Rose, and she drives a Rose colored sportscar (no kidding!). I've tried alot of things to forget about her. I still look at other women, and I've even tried asking other women out to no avail. I have several personal ads on the internet, but no replies. Ive even tried not going to the bank all that much, but yet I still think of her.
I just wonder if I should try something else to win her over, or just give up. But theren't many girls as cute as her. Her hair is like that of an angel. Her hands are hands of a godess. And her voice is the sweetest thing I ever heard.
Oh sorry for the romantic stuff, I know this is Bustalk. :-0
No problem here; in fact, I'll even mention a few buses just to keep us on subject...Flxible, New Flyer, Orion, RTS, NABI. There...we're still on track; LOL.
Have you considered checking back with her on occasion? Women are like buses...just because they are occupied at the moment doesn't mean they won't come back around empty later on. Always remember that. In the meantime, keep yourself open to meeting other people.
-F.
There you go - blurring the distinction between a BUS and a BUSS.
:-)
LOL...good one! If I go back into standup comedy, I want you to be my writer. Thanks for sharing the buspun. :)
-F.
that was mushy-all i did was luther vandross at radio city music hall and a romantic dinner at olive garden. Didnt get a chance to get her on any buses, but shes well aware im a bus fan. For out 6 mnth aniversery, she gave me a camera near walt whitman mall so i could get pictures of Suffolk Transit and HART buses. Cheesy gift, but i loved what i saw.
Yeah, maybe my experience was a little out there, but we enjoyed it nonetheless. And there's nothing cheesy about your gift at all; she knows what you love, and it shows that she is thinking of you. :)
-F.
Awesome story!!! We went to dinner, taking Orion VI 2003 on the 38B to Clarendon and walking home as it was so nice out that night. The calm before the storm big time! I bought her this little camera she saw at the camera shop and she had 6 mylar (sp?) balloons sent to my office so when I came back from lunch, they were all on my desk. Good thing I drove that day! Very nice night for us, but, every day should be Valentine's Day! We were supposed to get married at the B&0 museum roundhouse in November, but their roof collapsed, so we cancelled there and are getting married at the Baltimore Museum of Industry. Going over there tomorrow to check it out.
Good luck with everything, Flx!
Thanks! Say, shouldn't you say "Break a leg"? When I was in Drama back in high school, we were taught that saying "Good Luck" would cause the opposite to happen, and for me it usually does.
And congratulations....Museum of Industry, eh? If only they had a transit museum where you could hold the wedding. And wouldn't it be neat to charter an MTA Flx for the reception guests?
Break a leg, and keep it real. :)
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Fred,
That was great news. I'm very happy for you and the young lady and I wish you two well. Also - welcome back. I didn't have a great time like that, but I do have a new romance in the very early stages. This is a young lady who has met some of my friends and I've met her mother. She knows of my big interest in cars and sports, but soon enough I'll have to get her out there with me for some bus/railfanning. Who knows... we could do that and run into another couple doing the same thing. Are you listening 1C/Ballston:-)???
Wayne
Wayne, I'm all for that!!! LOL, we could double and use transit to get everywhere! Luckily, Pam's a big baseball fan. Unfortunately, she loves the Red Sox, but I'll forgive her for it. She wants to go to every Red Sox/O's game at Camden Yards this year and I'm thinking, uhhhh, NO! LOL
Good luck with you and your young lady friend, too! Enjoy your time with her and I hope things progress! : )
Yeah...I know the feeling on sports. I support the Virginia Tech Hokies, but my significant other spits on them and leans more towards UVa. Oh well, at least she thinks Flxibles are cute. :)
-F.
Thank you, and thank you. Who knows; someday you will have great adventures in transit with her. Just take it one day at a time at this point; I find that it is best not to push transit on someone too much at one time, so I slowly slip it in, then they get the idea that yes, I am a total busnut...and the best of them are supportive. :)
And tell me if you guys do get together and have a busfan couples' night out in DC...I'd love to join.
-F.
-F.
I spent my valentine's day sitting home, watching TV, looking at magazines, and resting on the couch. I don't need any girl to make me miserable. However, if ever meet someone who's right for me(which I doubt), then in would be pure fate. Not only that, I have such a harsh judgement. I am not good with words, I don't know what to say. I can't see myself using chessy romatic words, I just can't. I can't stand getting soft with words, and feeling warm. My tone is serious, dull, and quiet.
The only thing I need is my family, my friends, and buses. I live in freedom and I enjoy it.
There you go....simple pleasures. Nothing wrong with that, and that's how I have lived for a very long time.
I was in a serious relationship for a while (engaged for a year), but things went down the tubes and I just dated around and had fun for about 3 years. And when someone would ask me about marriage, there were many times I borrowed a quote from Hawkeye Pierce as he exclaimed in "M*A*S*H": "Someone's gotta get me pregnant first."
Then one day I ran into someone who I had known since high school; we were shy of each other at the time, but we came back together to meet again and here we are. We've had our moments, but so far all is well.
-F.
All is well; I have been very busy with customer orders and an upcoming car show, so I have not been able to stop by...I have barely had enough time to get to boards. Sorry I missed you; let's talk buses!
-Fred
I'm glad to see that you're alive and well!!! I haven't been posting too much the past couple of weeks myself. But, I have a doozy of a post about my awful ride on Metrobus today that I've already complained to WMATA about over email.
Oh yes, and due to the fact that I am using public computers at the moment, being snowed in for a week didn't help me get here, either. How was the white stuff for everyone elsewhere?
-F.
DC area is still struggling, Metro is not up to full frequencies yet and some buses are still on detours. Ride-On got up to full service yesterday. Don't worry, your Flxibles are running just fine. I saw Ride-On Metro-D 5700 on Seven Locks Road this morning but decided reaching to the back to get my camera and taking a picture of it WHILE DRIVING was not a good idea. I was stopped at a light so I would have been able to grab the camera but taking the picture while driving would have been an interesting feat. Too bad 5700 is the only one of those buses I do NOT have a picture of.
Really? So you have a pic of virtually everything else in DC? I would love to see these one day.
-F.
A few years ago didn't the MTA have a prototype hybrid bus that had 3 doors on the right side? One in the front, one in the middle and one at the end. What ever happen to it??
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Amtrak Modeling Inc. - Catch the Next Wave in Train Modeling!
Was it the LFS or orion VI?
It was an Orion 06.501 demonstrator that NYCT got with three doors, one front, one middle, one rear door...I don't know what happened to it...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
There was also a bus featured on a MTA flyer from the early 1990's that looked to have an engine or some other device in the middle of the bus. The bus appeared to be a modified RTS.
I saved the flyer somewhere. I will look for it. The flyer talked about future bus technology
the bus in question was tested at the staten island homeport. it had no number as it never saw revenue service. nyct opted for 10 orion six buses with two doors.
I believe an Orion VI, I think it had 3 doors and three axles with a roof mount AC. I only saw it in Bus World magazine. Was this ever tested though?
I saw it one day near Flatbush Depot. It was on a flatbed truck heading away from the Depot. After that I don't know were it went.
Robert
[A few years ago didn't the MTA have a prototype hybrid bus that had 3 doors on the right side?]
The Orion VI originally had the rear door behind the rear wheel well, but due to customer demand, Orion offered the option of having the rear door in front of the rear wheel well, like most conventional transit buses. I am guessing that the prototype had three doors to show the two possible locations for the rear door. I am not aware of any production Orion VI's that were built with three doors. Does anyone know of any 3-door Orion VI's in actual service?
I have planned out a bus trip to the Norwalk Mall in Norwalk,CT for 3/3/03.The trip begins at Fordham Rd/Tiebout Av with Bee-Line's 61 bus to Port Chester then take CTTransit's 11 bus from Port Chester-Stamford then transfer to the 41 to Norwalk Mall.I'm not sure what to expect when we get there so depending on how it all looks there,we could be there 2 hours,if it's good,less than that if it's not but I don't mind taking a walk around as long as we don't get lost.I'm not familiar with the area.If anyone wants to come with me,you are welcomed too.Be at Fordham before 10AM because I want to take the 61 out of Fordham at 10.
[then take CTTransit's 11 bus from Port Chester-Stamford then transfer to the 41 to Norwalk Mall]
During the day, most buses on the 11 and 41 are interlined, so that you do not have to transfer buses in Stamford. Check out the timetables for the 11 and 41 at www.cttransit.com
I did check the the bus schedule's of both buses before I planned it out and saw that and was very unsure of how that went.Now that you mentioned that,despite a free transfer,me and anyone else comes with me,if anyone does,won't have to ask for a transfer,we can stay on the bus we're on,providing the bus driver let's us stay on his/her bus.
What is exactly in the Norwalk mall? Never heard of it.
That's the purpose of the trip,to go and find out and to have a good time too.I'm a big mall goer.
I love to go to mall's I've never been too and walk around but usually I never buy anything because I don't have much money,and right now,I don't have enough money for a buying situation.Like I said,if it's crappy then we'll take a walk around or maybe take one of the WHEELS buses but I don't wanna go to far,I already have this trip planned out and it has to be followed EXACTLY as it is.Why?
Cause of my dad. Mr. Overprotectiveness,that's him. I always gotta get home at a decent time so I don't worry him too much.
[What is exactly in the Norwalk mall? Never heard of it.]
I don't remember exactly what Norwalk Mall is like, but recollect it is quite small - certainly not the type of regional mall you would expect from the name. I remember seeing only a small number of local stores and few, if any, national tenants and no large anchor store. It's been many years since I've been there, so my recollection is very vague and things may have changed since then.
Ok gentlemen of the board here is how the trip is gonna be...
BL route 61:Fordham-Port Chester.Depart Fordham at 10AM,Arrive at Port Chester at 11:25AM then...
CTTransit route 11:Port Chester-Stamford. Depart Port Chester at 11:40AM,Arrive at Stamford at 12:20PM.Then....
CTTransit route 41:Stamford-Norwalk Mall. Depart Stamford at 12:27PM,
Arrive at Norwalk Mall at 1:13PM.
(return trip) CTTransit route 41:Norwalk Mall-Stamford. Depart Norwalk Mall at 3:20PM,Arrive at Stamford at 4:04PM. Then....
CTTransit route 11:Stamford-Port Chester.Depart Stamford at 4:05PM,Arrive at Port Chester at 4:56PM or Depart Stamford at 4:33PM,
Arrive at Port Chester at 5:27PM.Then....
BL route 13:Port Chester-White Plains.Depart Port Chester at 5:05 PM,
Arrive at White Plains at 5:36PM or Depart Port Chester at 5:45PM, Arrive at White Plains at 6:13PM.Then...
BL Route 1W:White Plains-242St/VCP. Depart WP at 5:40PM,Arrive at VCP at 6:53PM or Depart WP at 6:40PM,Arrive at VCP at 7:50PM.
Now on the trip back from Norwalk Mall you notice two set's of time for the CTT route 11 and BL routes 13 and 1W.Since the 41 at 3:20 out of Norwalk arrives at Stamford 1min before the 4:05 11 leaves,there is a chance that we might have to wait for the 4:33 11 bus because the 41 might arrive late or we'd have to run for the bus just to make sure we don't miss it.
Any of you who want's to come with me on this trip can bring a camera to take picture's of BL,CTT and WHEELS(Norwalk Transit) buses.
Please be advised that starting on March 3rd,the Bee-Line fare's will be $1.75 not a $1.40 and the transfer's will be 25 cent's instead of 35 cents and that the 85 cent surcharge for the 60,61,62 bus routes will be eliminated.(Praise the Lord,Jesus Christ!!!) If you don't want to pay the $1.75 Bee-Line fare then buy a 22 ticket bargain book from the Tru Value Pharmacy at Dyre Av in the Bronx which is across the street from the station for $25 and your Bee-Line trip will be free.Remember on 3/3/03 the Bargain book will go up to $35 so buy them now while they're still at $25.
The CTTransit fare is $1 and the transfer's are free.Please be advised that the 11 bus from PC-Stamford becomes the 41 bus to Norwalk so hopefully the bus driver will allow us to stay on his/her bus since we're gonna be on the same bus anyway on the 41.However going back to Stamford on the 41,the 3:20 DOES NOT become a 11,therefore that will be the only time a transfer must be asked for upon boarding.Also when we arrive at White Plains,you are free to go back to NYC on either the 20 or 60 buses and not the 1W with me.I'm taking the 1W because it takes me to the 1 train and the 1 train leaves me right across the street from where I live at 157St.
I hope to see some response's,I hope many will come and I will see you all there.By the way,we all shall meet at the Bee-Line bus stop in Fordham which is a block away from Valentine Av on Fordham Rd heading in the direction of Webster Av. before 10AM.I DO NOT want to miss that 10AM 61 bus.If you aren't there before 10 then,well as the saying goes....You snooze,you lose.
I just got back from Cancun, and rode the busses there all over the place.
They smell and sound like they run on something other than diesel, but not sure if it's gasoline or some other sort of gas.
They appear to be extremely lightweight, with injection-moulded plastic seats, roofs that I don't think would survive a roll-over at all, thin glass windows, zero handicapped accessibility, and doors that were usually opened as soon as the bus was travelling less than 15mph coming to a stop (I pissed off my travelling companion by jumping out of a slowing bus, admittedly not the smartest thing to do - and I hadn't even been drinking). I'm willing to bet they cost less than half of what Chicago's busses cost.
They drive wildly, pulling in and out of traffic more or less at will. But, they come very, very frequently. During the day, even on the less touristy routes, I never waited more than 3-4 minutes for a bus (usually more like 30 seconds), and during the late evening (half past midnight), I never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus. I wish I could get that level of service in Chicago, where it's not uncommon to wait 20-40 minutes for "Nightowl" busses, and even at rush hour sometimes I wait 10 minutes for a bus even on busy routes. All that for 6 pesos, or slightly less than 60 U.S. cents - AND they could make change for payments.
Most of the time, the service was so frequent that they weren't overly crowded, with even the most crowded conditions still better than Chicago rush hour bus conditions.
Anyone have any details on what those busses are, how much they cost, whether the system requires subsidization, etc?
If you noticed there are multiple bus operators competting. That has something to do with the wild driving and virtually noexexistant wait times. I witnessed a few near fights between competting drivers when i was down in cancun back in 1995
Not sure about Cancun, but some of the Mexican cities have buses made in Mexico -- by a company known as "MASA" (I think it is Motoroes Autonomos S.A., the S.A. being the equivalent of "Inc." here in the USA) There are some of these in Tijuana, a hundred miles south of where I live.....and they are basically a cracker box on wheels. Most of the buses in Tijuana are hand-me-downs from everywhere in the USA; lately they've had a lot of Seattle Flyers, AC Transit Flyers, Orange County Gilligs (they bought a couple dozen and can only keep three running; I see the same three all the time) and they still have LOADS of GM 5307 fishbowls from SCRTD and other agencies. Seems that whenever an agency up here auctions off their retirees, the operators in Tijuana find out and buy them up.
When I was in cancun back in 1995 there were a few distinct models of buses. None of which ran in the US. The buses were more of a school bus quility then a transit quility product
At 4:30PM I was on the cloverleaf from Sunrise Hwy E/B to Rte 231 N/B when a VanHool passed me on the ramp from N/B 231 to E/B Sunrise. The bus was aqua color and had jumping dolphins and fish on the side, similar to the Corgi Sea World bus. I had to look hard and quick and saw the InterCounty name spelled in a script font.
This was unusual and startling since ICMC has used variations on a red and white livery for a long time....Has anyone else seen this bus?
Is this a special paint job or are other buses being changed to it?
These past two days, B41 service has been very subpar. Yesterday, after letting 4215 go since I needed the LTD, NO bus came for at least 15 minutes then the Fulton St buses took long itself.
Today coming home from school around 5pm, I didn't have to wait as long but it was WORSE! I waited 10 minutes before any 41 came, local 8408 and LTD 8447 so I hop into the LTD and it was standing room only BY THE SECOND STOP, that almost never happens! So after Smith St it was virtually packed and we ended up skipping every stop afterward until Atlantic Av. This guy comes in the back door and starts acting very strange. First he starts making beats on the W/C lift then he bangs on the speakers and he takes napkins and EATS it! I could already tell he was delusional & mentally ill. Then later on this guy starts staring at these 3 girls and spits the paper out into the back stairway by GAP. Then after leaving Empire Blvd, he clips his fingernails, now that was just NASTY! Then its a crawl on Flatbush Av from Parkside until after Church Av and when the driver had chances to get speed, he DID NOT take advantage of it, he drove no more than 15-20mph and was frustrating. I finally arrive at Foster Av and what is normally a 30-35 minute trip took a hour >:-0.
I saw at least 12 LTD's heading in the opposite direction [toward Tillary] and it seemed like buses were running on a reduced schedule and I noticed that on many routes lately; I know the snow has something to do with it but the roads are NOT what it was on Monday.
*Would travel be like this if the MTA had its way and went on with service cuts? You decide on that.
RTS 8447 B41 LTD
Yes it would and I think it would be even worse. Buses will be even more sporadic service wise.
I feel your pain with the service at FLA. Hopefully it will only get better.
And no wonder why the bus was so slow-it was a repowered piece of junk which probably doesn't go above 15-20mph unless you're lucky.
#1979 X17
Make that THREE days of subpar B41 service. Today, I got on the LTD and the bus driver didn't go above 15mph, took 10 minutes b/c the driver stayed at Flatbush/Livingston being a smartass and the traffic on Flatbush Av didn't help neither. It took 40 minutes JUST to reach Empire Blvd from Adams St, it's stuff like this that gives the general riders the impression that the TA workers look like money hungry jackasses. So I got frustrated >:-0, got off at Empire Blvd and took the Q to Newkirk where I caught the B8 to go home.
RTS 5088 B41 LTD
R68 2786 (Q)
Orion 584 B8
SAW HER TODAY AT 2:50 ON THE B6-LTD AT GLENWOOD & ROACKWAY PKWY HURTS TO SEE IT BEAR A UP STICKER
3969 B6 - LTD
7512 B6 - LOCAL
TWO CRAPPY BUS
Did it move? Did it stop? Did the doors open and close, and did passengers enter and exit it? If so, then why the diatribe?
The Department of Buses does not assign vehicles (or choose which ones to keep and which ones to scrap) based on the whims of bus fans (or Busfan).
David
its your gift from the folks at yukon depot. we now have only five of that series, 3901,3949,3957,3960 and 3972 and cant forget 4129 to make it six. they should soon go to the crapper. i mean scrapper.
Tough Nookies! SE Queens had loads of those junkers for about 3 years straight. It's your turn Brooklyn and Yukon!!!
#3969 Q46 FLASHBACK!!!
3 years is NOTHING compared to what Brooklyn got over the years. We've been getting junk in Brooklyn for quite some time, FP & UP getting old RTS's seems like a never ending process. In UP, I remember 3001-3022 & 3279-3292 coming there in 1991 [Caine824 and NOVARTS9090, I'm sure your memories are sharp on this ;-)] then they got 3160-3164,3171-3173,3294-3304,3321,3324 and some 4000's as hand me downs from FP,JG & ENY a couple of years back, lost their original 1988 TMC's and they just got it bad but definitely not more worse than FP. I'll leave that to Ridgewood :0).
Don't forget those AMS buses 4753-4792 as well as the former Staten Island coaches that went through JG first (exc. 4872, an ENY bus). Also, 4497 from the Bronx Division is a hand-me-down. Also, what about 1460, 1499, 1527, 3059, 3060, 3068, and 3069, 3099, and 3128 (and 3115 or 3140?) Sorry, caine824 and NOVARTS9090, but those were frequent buses in eastern Brooklyn when UP had a split of the B82 (and were also frequent on the B1, where I went to high school). Except for the 91 Novas in UP (only 34 of which are fit for local service) and the 1984 buses 3651-3656, 3679-3748, UP has not seen anything original in my lifetime remaining there for the majority of its life (esp. when 4683-4684, 4686-4688, 4690-4722 went to JG mid-life). Bensonhurst (B6 especially) should get some hope if the franchise bus takeover happens and the B6 is reassigned to the Command garage in Spring Creek (that could also help out the B13 as well with express buses fit for local duty). As for the other Bensonhurst routes, I just hope that the DOB swaps the Command Expresses coaches w/o platforms with the Nova express coaches (but not 4497 and 4742), so that the express coaches could run where they are fit!
i dont see the DOB of Command going to Ulmer Park. Those are CNG models as well as the orion V that command has. Ulmer Park doesnt have any CNG fueling station. I could see them going to JG and having JG lose the 8500's and sending them to Ulmer Park. If ULmer park loses the B6 come the major merge of DOT routes, hopefully they could get the b68 bus back. only specualtions.
Do not expect the B-6 to be moved out of Ulmer Park for any reason.The cost factor on the B-6 is the reason. To have the B-6 moved will increase the cost to operate the line.
Right now drivers just walk over and go to work on the bus. If it is moved thean it will require travel time from the depot to the line.
If the Command facility is taken over because of the lack of buses that operate in regular service past the garage which is the B-13 only then local bus routes will have to pull out and pull in at the beginning and end of their day as well as for their swings.
This will increase the cost factor because the buses will be dead heading from the line to and from the depot and not in revenue service.
BTW- the TA would love to move the B-82 from East New York to Ulmer Park for the same reason. It can't because there is no room in Ulmer Park for the additional buses.
If something goes in to Ulmer Park than an existing line has to come out. To move the B-1,B-3,B-4,B-6,B-36,B-64 or B-74 local routes to another depot will greatly increase operating costs because the longest dead head of any of these routes is Stillwell and Surf Aves for the B-36 and B-74 routes.
Even the express routes can not be moved because the x-28 and x-29 are both near the depot. The X-27 can be operated from either Jackie Gleason or Ulmer Park and the cost factor is basically the same. The benefit of operating the X-27 out of Ulmer Park is the benefit of one depot operating the MCI coaches only.
The one advantage in operating the X-27 from Gleason is to have the B-68 return to Ulmer Park. This will result in a reduction of operating cost to the B-68 especially since the line was extended to Stillwell Ave which is a permanent change because it is shorter dead head from Ulmer Park to Stillwell Ave than from Gleason to Bartel Prichard Square.
Thank You
Yup, that's exactly why the B68 was sent to JG; I'd like to see it return there hopefully one day but I'd rather the B8 :-). I agree, the B6 is too big of a importance for UP to lose, they already lost the B8, B68 and B82 and you really can't move the 6 w/o switching for at least 2 bus routes from ENY & JG, Flatbush and Fresh Pond is out of the question.
The B-68 was sent to Jackie Gleason for one reason
There was no room for it in Ulmer Park
Thank You
If Frersh Pond had more buses, they would probably be able to handle the B43. However since Maspeth Depot is being built, there is no need for it.
I understand your point. If cost was the factor, provided there was enough room for the buses AND additional space could be acquired fro UP, after takeover of the Command facility, this would be the ideal depot assignments (post-Maspeth):
What is currently Command: B13, B14, B15, B20 (split-FP), B42 (this garage can handle about 150 buses)
UP: B1, B3, B4, B6, B36, B64, B68 (combined w/B74), B82, X28/38, X29 (x25 to MJQ), F shuttle (B68 and B82 offset by loss of X27)
ENY: Q24, Q56, B8, B12, B14, B17, B25, B45, B60, B65, B83 (ENY once had as much as 325 buses)
Maspeth: Q59, B24, B39, B43, B44, B48, B57, B61
FB: B7, B9, B31, B41, B46, B47, B49, B103 (can handle about 270 buses)
JG: B9, B11, B16, B23, B35, B37, B51, B63, B67, B69, B70, B71, B75, B77, X27/37 Grand Street Shuttle (this depot can have as much as 325 buses)
FP: Q54, Q55, Q58, B26, B38, B52, B54 (this depot could probably take 260 buses)
The B68 and B74 should be combined, likely resulting in just one additional bus needed for the B68. The same could be done with the B2 and B100. The difficulty would be for several routes with long deadheads, such as the B8 and the B42. Each has a long deadhead no matter what garage. The B2 would be discontinued, because of overlap with the longer B100.
One last addition (forgot the Command routes)
FB would operate the BM1, BM3, and BM4 using UP's express coaches and the Classics or their replacements. The Command facility would keep the BQM1 and the BM2 routes. The Command Orions could help out JG with its express (and local on weekends) routes.
looking good But Not The B42 IN COMMAND To Much DEAD HEADING leave that in ENY and The M103 Would work better In ENY Too COMMAND Could Have B6 EXTRA AND THE B68 & BM4 Could Replace The X27/37 Other then that its good
#5225 - B6 - B82
#9092 - B6 - LTD
#9097 - B6 - LOCAL
#9099 - B6 - LTD
The B6 won't really see a depot transfer w/o having a MAJOR change and count Flatbush and Fresh Pond out of it.
Examples:
If the B6 were to go to JG, the B8 and B68 would probably go back to UP. Another possibility is sending the B8, B9 & B37 to UP for the B6. Only things I could think of w/o moving the X27.
If the B6 were to go to ENY, the B82 and the 6 would probably swap depots but I think it ain't worth it.
The list of hand-downs that Fresh Pond has gotton is so ridiculous, that it will make some people piss in their pants(or not). Here are all the old hand-downs that existed(or still exist) in Fresh Pond
Here we go:
3002, 3003, 3006, 3010, 3011, 3016, 3021, 3032, 3048, 3052, 3053, 3056, 3299, 3309-3311, 3404, 3406, 3414, 3420, 3460, 3461, 3712, 3714, 3720, 3730, 3733, 3918, 3919, 3921, 3935, 3936, 3942, 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997, 4052(Oh God help us), 4069, 4070, 4201(burn in hell), 4202, 4203, 4205-4210, 4212, 4213, 4367, 4379, 4380, 4382, 4390, 4552, 4653-4661, 4663-4684, 4686-4688, 4690-4741, 4743-4752, 4832, 4833, 4880, 4881, 4884, 4889-4891.
There were also a few 1700's, but I forgot which ones.
Not only that, there were a few originals that sucked too, 4074, 4080, 4097, 4099, 4108(that was just as bad as the 4200's). Also there were 103 87'RTS that existed(or still exist) in Fresh pond, how sad.
Trust me, Fresh Pond had it the worst. There is no other depot that comes close to amount of hand-downs Fresh Pond had. We're the worst treated depot.
In addition to 3309-3311, FP had 1983's in the 3290 range all the way up to the end: 3324 (nee Hudson), except one 3315 (or 3316) which was destroyed by fire early in its life......The ones in the 3000 range were at FP to cover the WillyB in the summer of 1999 while the elevated structure for the J/M/Z was being demolished and replaced. FP needed additonal buses for this. That is why buses were fueled & maintained at FP and bought back to the plaza overnight and parked there since FP had no room to store them overnight.....Buses in the 3400 and 3700 range were at FP for a very short period of time, I forgot about them. Thanks for bringing back the nightmares!...... I don't remember 1700's there, perhaps you are right however.....Even the Blitz fishbowls were on their last legs when FP got them. And when these were replaced they got those horrible 2200's from MABSTOA for a short amount of time as well. At FP, the buses come in on their own power, and leave on a flatbed or tow truck!
It was 3315 that burned. 3316 was in ENY. Do not even remind me of any of the 1983 RTSs. Based on ENY (and UP before 1999) being the depots serving where I live, I remember only two with good acceleration: 3080 and 3177.
As for the express coaches, I do not remember a 1700 series bus, but I do remember hearing of an 1855.
Also another good one was 3066, that bus used to roll! The 1983 RTS was a mistake and they were bad and its even worse when over 2/3 of that fleet WAS retired in Brooklyn. Hey ENY, remeber 3076 and 3090 LMAO the absolute worst of the fleet! If you made a rught turn with 3090, it used to make weird noises the bus started super slow and if it was crowded the bus would SINK! As for 3076 now THAT was just a POS, no accel whatsoever [you thought dealing with 3997 was bad] the windows were foggy; in fact it was probably still with its original 1983 Lucite windows until it was scrapped, good riddens to that junk!
True, but before you bring up those numbers, I have another one for you: 3322, which I would probably place up there with 4201 and 3997. The only one I knew that ran fast was 3177.
Haa! 3322 speaks for itself, it was dingy on the outside oh no more on THAT enough said ;-).
im amazed there werent any future RTS orders past PA3325. I mean, what happened to 3326-3399?
B1-#9331-NOVABUS
B64-#9106-NOVABUS
Yeah I'm amazed too but they wanted to start from 00 I guess to identify the different years of the RTS's.
I think they like to start numbers of new orders from a "round number" like 00 or 01. There were no NYCT RTS' buses numbered from 4219 to 4299 either.
4219 never made revenue service. However, it is a Hospital Audience Bus that's stored at JG.
4220-4299 were never used-for what reason I have no clue.
#1979 X22
Also you have these #'s not used:
8568-8599
8704-8749
And in the Orion series of buses: 318-399. (6361-6364 were RTS hybrid vehicles ordered, but never delivered because NovaBUS discontinued the RTS (are they even in the US market anymore)?
Forgot:
1-99
681-799
7050-7499
9700-up
#680 Q32
The 3200/3300 series FP had were 3294-3325 except 3315. There were also the 3600's: 3655-3680, 3682. Don't know about 3681.
Those 3600s started out in UP.
The 3600's were hand me downs from UP. Some of the 3600's were moved to FP around 1992-1993; 3667-3679 then later on 3656-3666 and 3680 went there as well. Shortly before the 1984 GM's from there were retired, 3656 and 3678-3680 came back to UP and ended their careers where they started. 3651-3655 & 3681-3748 with a few exceptions remained at Ulmer Park their entire careers. Fresh Pond had 3294-3319[not counting 3315] and ENY had 3320-3325. Then as they were retired, 3294-3299,3301-3304,3321 & 3324 was at Ulmer Park, 3305,3307-3312,3314,3317-3319 was at Fresh Pond and East New York had 3300,3306,3313,3316,3320,3322,3323 and 3325.
Actually, I don't really remember seeing the 3600's in FP, they were probably there for a short time. However I do remember the 1400/1500's and 2200's, which is strange.
The first 3600's to arrive to FP was around the late 1980's, even before the first 4600/4700's arrived there. They were there for a few years. I don't recall exactly when they were tranferred out of FP but they were gone by the late 1990's.
Most of the 3600's at FP ended their careers there. A few went to other depots (3669 to ENY for example) The 5055 to 5074 group replaced them.
Ulmer Park's orginal fleet of rts buses were these:
PA1811-PA1846
3651-3655,3681-3747
4683-4729
then ULmer park recieved these:
3001-3023.
PA3279-PA3299
they also had #3160-my favorite.
eventually they recieved the 1700's from JG once the X27 came over.
right now, the 9000's and 9100's are the best ulmer park has for local service. South Brooklyn is screwed for a long time to come.
3160 was the first bus with a Detroit Diesel series 50 engine, and it ran like the mid-90s buses until it died.
Oh I LOVED 3160 in UP, the first repower with a DD50 engine.
I thought UP's original RTS fleet was this:
1982 RTS: 1796-1846
1984 RTS: 3651-3748
1988 RTS: 4683-4730
1996 RTS: 9031,9035,9040,9048,9057-9060,9062,9067,9073-9110,9295-9344
Then when those 1983 RTS's came in 1991 [3001-3022 & 3279-3292], some of the 1984's and 1988's were shipped to Fresh Pond [3656-3680 & 4722-4730 respectively].
Here's Ulmer Park's roster before the 1983's came as Hand Me Downs. I may be off with some #'s [those who know fully could fill in the gaps and/or correct me] but here's what I remember:
GM Blitz: 5236-5247
1972 GM: 6129,6130
1977 Flx: 9224-9233
1981 RTS: 1224-1236,1357,1466,1475,1480,1483,1582
1982 RTS: 18xx-1846
1984 RTS: 3651-3666,3681-3748
1988 RTS: 4683-4730
Actually, 3023 was in Flatbush already [3023-3067]. In general Brooklyn division with the exception of JG will continue to get Hand Me Downs in the future.
9068 and not 9073. BTW, I though UP had all the way up to 1858. I remember seeing 1852 in Bay Ridge in the mid-1990s and again in Queens as late as 2002, just before it was scrapped this year.
9068 is a Flatbush original and I remember seeing 9073 on the B8 in 7/96 when the 1996 Novas first debuted in 1996. Yeah, UP had all the 1982 buses up to 1858 too but I'm not sure if 1847-1858 were UP originals.
9073 never ran out of U.P. It has spent it's entire life at Jamaica depot.
BIG AL
ulmer parks fleet when i left there in 1987 was 1812-1853, and 3651-3748. the local buses were relatively new. the grumman fleet in 1981 was 256-321 and pa26-50 and 400 series for x28 and 29. first rts buses to arrive were 1239-1256 and pa 1430-1480. 1800-1811 were in castleton and 1854-1858 were in 100 st.
I could of sworn I saw 9073 in UP when it first came out in June 1996 but I may of mixed it up :-P.
9068 is a UP original, the bus you are referring to is 9074, not JAM 9073. Both are now in ENY.
1852 spent its final days at Hudson Pier. I remember the day and place that I got my last 2 pics of this bus: Broadway and 42 St Times Square on the M6-September 13, 2002. It was scrapped as of November of 2002.
Another note this bus inside had a black number board similar to that of the Novas. I have a pic of it somewhere as proof.
RIP 1852!!!
#1852 Q46
ulmer park did have #9178-a 1977 Flxible back in 1993. I know,becasuse somewhere in my room is a picture of it in the garage.
Was it not #9278 (Flxible New Look)? I saw it frequently on the old B5.
Has anyone ever thought the reason why Brooklyn gets the junkiest buses is because Brooklyn is ghetto and they run through the crappiest of neighborhoods?
#1979 X1
Doesn't matter what neighborhood it is, the Borough of Brooklyn has the Hand Me Down junk throughout, they're running fine and that's it!
Not true, Queens Village buses travel through some nice areas, but remember what they had deal to with? ENY buses travel through some bad areas yet they have 125 99'Novas. Most Fresh Pond routes are not bad compared to what you see at ENY or KB routes.
The 3733 was one of the worst! Thank God all the 3700's are gone. It's true, when buses are about to die, Fresh Pond will torture them on the B57. And then they will need to be towed to get them to Nimco. I hope those 4300's get put on the B57, so they can get tortured too.
At least the 17xx Series buses were good at FP
Those were suburbans, I remember seeing one on the Q55.
Did any 1700's run on the Q54?
Yes. And so as 1855. I rode that bus on the Q54 back a few years ago
1791 1792 and 1799 were the 1700 series Suburbans that were at FP.
I have 2 pics of 1824 on the B24. I also remember seeing 1834 1846 and 1855 at FP before they left for UP for the final time.
#1824 B24
Not to make it more depressing Ridgewood but FP also had these as Hand Me Downs:
3033,3040,3656-3680,3990,4067,4068
3990 went from ENY-QV-KB. I don't remember FP ever having 3990.
#3990 Q88
3990 wasn't in Fresh Pond.
My mistake.
Fresh Pond is the best owner for the B13. It will NOT be shared by any other depot.
Ulmer PArk even had #8340-#8350 and #8000-#8002. They to, went elsewhere.
Along with 5075-5099.
FP has 8000 to 8002 now.
Make that 8000-8017, originally in 146 Street Depot.
and we got them 37xx the wrost thing i have ever seen but those to left that i was glad about the best bus we Have are:
1996 Remen: 7511-7513, 7515-7517,7519-7524, 7526-7534 <--lost a one everyday
1996 nova: 9077-9110 <-only 34 the the losest amount of 1996 Local nova
1997 nova: 9295-9342 <-can't use on every UP route
Does anyone know if there are plans to retrofit the Brooklyn division to handle other types of buses anytime soon?
There is plans for Artics, but a date of acutal service so unknown.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I understand what you're saying, if the bus moves and works and that's it OK I agree! But its the amount of old junk that Brooklyn gets that gets me kind of angry but we can't do nothing about it :-(.
Sorry, to me, a bus isn't any bus. The people around here might think that, but I'm not fooled one bit. They don't realize they have the oldest fleet, which is pathetic. They are blind, I wish there was some way to get everyone to know how we're treated. There aren't that many people who see the truth, but at least got some of my friends to see it(heh heh heh), and they aren't happy with the crap getting dumped here(LOL!). :)
Oh and I forgot to say, everytime my friends see one of the 3900's, they say "oh God, why do we have to suffer with this?" or "we deserve something better than this crap", it's just too damn funny. :)
Let's thank Orion Bus industries for these old buses. If they could have delivered the Orion VII on time, all these 3XXX series would already be history.
That's an Onion for ya!!! Buses that'll bring tears to your eyes!!! Long live the 1985 GMC RTS!!!
#3972 S61
I agree. While a old junk bus may work & move passengers, we see the dark, cold reality of the Hand Me Down syndrome in Brooklyn and you can't fool me and the other Brooklynites in particular with that! Man, Yukon got some junk too but we got it BAD!
Hmm, what would happen when the Hand Me Downs are no longer 1980's era buses what will we jump on? Well at least we enjoying it while its here now :-).
All of the RTS-04 in Brooklyn should be scrapped, with the exception of 4214-5, 4217, ex-JAM buses, and 4014, wearing ENY for all 18 years so far. If these buses (42xx) were good enough to do WEEKEND runs in a depot that has a majority of Novas at age 18, then these buses should still be running in great condition. Flatbush 41 would know about that batch.
Don't feel so bad, here at Fresh Pond, I seen the 3986 on the Q55 yesterday and believe me, it's much worse than those 3-9's at Ulmer Park.
no-#7521 that i had this morning on the B1 is worse. She stalled out at Av X and McDonald Av-thank goodness the driver got her restarted. Too crowded to wait for the next one.
B1-#7521-Remanufactured RTS
M1-#6356-Orion VI
How is it that you guys get on buses that are bad by your standards which then always seem to stall out? I was an operator for over 7 years and NEVER had a bus stall out while I was in service. I think that is so odd.
BIG AL
Want to see a bus stall out. Take any of the command RTS CNG's(not the X gleason ones). Between kings highway and mill basin. The driver needs to restart the bus a min of two times. Sometimes it take a few restarts just to pull out of the bus stop at kings highway
I'm not saying buses don't stall out. I merely said I never had a NYCT bus stall out while in service. Long ideling, yes. In service, no. How certain bustalkers on this board always seem to be on them when they stall in service, big "?".
BIG AL
I've had one drop dead heading uptown on the M-10. RTS #3444 ran out of fuel with a full swinging load... that was interesting to say the least ;-)
I've had transmissions fail, hoses rupture, fuel filters "fall off" and more fun with the QV fleet.
The Energizer Bunny we're not.
Ran outta fuel? They're supposed to fill 'em up every night! Unless that baby gets terrible MPG!
It sounds like the bus is ready to be taken to Brookfield in Elmsford, New York for scrapping.
#3 West End Jeff
Actually, in her day, 3969 was a quick reliable bus. She'd take any hill with a full load and zip on through. If any of you can read the area above the drivers head, you may still see remains of writing which read, "Cathys Comet". But like every bus, age has a toll. She was a QV workhorse. Good bus.
I recently moved to City Island in the Bronx and have been riding the BX29 to and from work each day. The drivers are great and are always on time, so why do they have to put up with rotten local kids constantly throwing snowballs at the buses? Is there anything the MTA can do about this? Does this happen every winter on City Island?
Not only does this damage buses and startle riders, but it is very dangerous. Many of these punks aim for the windshields! Do drivers on any other bus lines have this problem?
[The drivers are great and are always on time, so why do they have to put up with rotten local kids constantly throwing snowballs at the buses? Is there anything the MTA can do about this?]
That happens in some other Bronx neighborhoods, too, especially on Halloween. In one case, a bus operator told me, the kid's father was COACHING him on (1) how to throw the egg and (2) which buses to target. It's interesting that they throw eggs and snowballs ONLY at Transit's buses; New York Bus Service and (in Co-op City) Queens Surface are left alone.
Unfortunately, Transit can't take any action other than suspending service in those areas, but that punishes paying riders.
these bastards on staten island regularly throw snow and ice at the buses. the problem is island wide and not limited to certain areas.and the thugs do sometimes throw it at the windshield. i used to hate driving after a snowstorm as they have broken windows.
This problem is city-wide, can happen any time at any bus on any route.
always on time? the Bx29 can be late sometimes, it hardly shows up, that is why people crowd the Bx12
always on time? the Bx29 can be late sometimes, it hardly shows up, that is why people crowd the Bx12
..well, i've taken the 29 just about 7 days a week for the past few months and have been able to set my watch to it 90% of the time. coming from queens where that kind of reliability is a fantasy, i say its alright.
hardly showing up? im not sure what that means. the route is considerably shorter than most (26 minutes from end to end), so where exactly would these buses go?
and what good would the bx12 do for me and all of the other southbound riders? the co-op riders have more options than the 29 and 12, if thats what youre driving at...
from Pelham Bay, only the QBx1(which runs faster than the Bx29) goes to Co Op City
oh and QBx1 doesn't go to Bay Plaza
This happens also in Flushing alot. Some kids were throwing snowballs at my N21, but they missed. :-0
Saw 125 the other day on express run from Yukon and saw 137 last night on the S61 out of the ferry. So they are now at Yukon again.
this has just been posted on their website. roster as of today. the new artic assignment is also posted.
Okay, I'll it this out right now. I want to see all of those changes where these buses were dumped in Brooklyn.
Okay, I'll check this out right now. I want to see all of those changes where these buses were dumped in Brooklyn.
This roster mentions that 7560 is in JG when it lists the new order assignments, but under JG it says it is in Zerega. Where is it?
Why is this bus at MCH? Tell me they are not testing this bus at MCH for it's routes? I do not want to start anything (like rumors or such) so just explain why this bus is at MCH? Thanks in advance.
Ray
did happen to see #5538 on the M23 and #5539 on the M102 today. looks likes the newer models are on the way. Also, caught sight of #4486 on the M103. YUCK!!!
Hehe-maybe they rejected the Onion 7 order? LOL! That will be the day though.
I assume 5529 is there at MCH just to train the drivers on it. I remember when MCI 2774 and D60HF 5508 made a brief appearance at CS last year to train the drivers there. Same reason why 5529 is at MCH.
It will go back to MJQ shortly. It has MJQ stickers. Just saw it on Thursday on the M102.
#5529 M102
I'm completely in the dark, I've seen these little buses going around and am still trying to figure out what they are for. I'm almost certain it has something to do with the elderly/handicapped.
Paratransit services controlled by MTA I think..I know it's Paratransit services...but I think they are MTA-controlled or something like that...Access-a-Ride is one of the companies that operates paratransit services, there American Transit among others. Anyone with better info, u have the floor.
Yeah, those are private companies contracted by NYCT to provide the paratransit service. They deal with several such as American Transit, American Paratrans, etc. Down here in DC we have "MetroAccess" which is our paratransit system where WMATA contracts with Logisticare to do the service.
i guess i can explain it best since i now work there. access a ride is ada mandated paratransit for those unable to ride public transit. rjr operates the servive on staten island under contract to nyct. everyone over 65 is eligible as well as many handicapped and people undergoing dialysis. the fare is a dollar fifty for door to door service.
I'm headed Northbound standing at Nostrand and Ave Z wanting to get off at either Ave R or Quentin. The schedule says the B44 is to come every 8 minutes, all of which are limiteds since I'm below Ave U. Well, 27 minutes go by with 2 B36s coming from Ave Z, turning and going. Everybody waiting for the B44 is getting annoyed. Well, since it isn't in sight, I take the third B36 to Ave U, get off and go towards the B44. I was outraged when I saw two B44s sitting there with Flushing Ave destination signs, with about two people on each bus. Just as I'm getting there (the snow slowed me down) BOTH of them leave!!! Meanwhile, south of Ave U there hasn't been a bus in almost a half hour. I turn around and there's the long awaited B44 limited from Sheepshed Bay coming, definitely speeding. There's just one thing: It's empty! What happened to all of those people that I was waiting with at Ave Z who were blankly staring up towards Emmons for this bus? I saw it come up from Ave V so I know it had to start down at Emmons. There was nothing behind it so it was a bunching problem. What happened? Were all of these buses somehow going around the Ave Z/Nostrand Ave bus stop for some reason? And why did two B44s of the same status leave Ave U at the same time? Of course bus bunching is going to occur if you start off with the buses bunched!
If anyone is interested... here are the running model changes for Disney.
Build date of October 2002. Fleet numbers 4862-4885.
Serials 23000286-23000309.
Sun shades replace sun visor. Had a chance to experience them today.
Crappier than I ever imagined. Manual pull down... and then a pull
cord to coil it back up. I can see the mechanism breaking in 3
months. The guides it goes down on will be broken in 3 weeks. The
tinted plastic on the front will rip, tear, and get scratched VERY
quickly. From what I hear, Disney is already quite displeased with
them, and they're not even on the road yet.
ADA fold up seats have a new release mechanism. Former models had the J hook latch on the seat bottom. These go up without a latch, however, there is a semi-hidden pull latch to get them to go down. This way a guest can't put them down when you need them up.
Our first batch had a small convex mirror over the front door to see
the seat behind the driver, and the wheelwell. Second batch had no
mirror. This batch has a convex on the pillar behind the door. Very
inconvenient to see.
New Mirrors. Slightly bigger, better drivers side mount. Integrated
turn signal. Slow moving motors. (Previous models had zippy fast
motors, that made it impossible to adjust)
The Disney Transport logo is now on the back hatch, just like 4815.
No Mickey ears over the top lights though. (Religious groups thought
it made Mickey Mouse look like the devil)
PA system... Still crap. Amplifier volume knob moved to accessible
location. Still useless. Sounds like the adults on Peanuts cartoons.
Steering wheel... All other LFS's had nice leather wrapped steering
wheels. These came with cheap foam rubber. They won't last very long.
Rear deck... still full low floor, however the ramp to the rear deck
was changed very slightly.
They will not be placed into guest service probably for at least
another month. They are in the process of registering, insuring,
detailing, and inspecting. (As well as fixing all the *MANY* problems
that have already surfaced) Not to mention, they forgot to order
radios for the busses. Ooops.
In other related news... some of the TwinVision signs came DOA... No
surprise there. Still having TONS of problems with them. 4840, 4844,
and 4848's front headsign have NEVER worked properly... plus many of
the RTS signs die constantly. We're having major problems getting
repair from TwinVision, and rumor has it that we're taking legal
action. (Emphasis on "Rumor has it") My question is... why cant we
do that with NovaBUS and the crap they send us? LOL
In even more related (yet unrelated) news... Disney is considering
replacing our parking trams with busses. We've currently done a few
tests at Animal Kingdom with the LFS... they might be thinking of
artics or double artics. *shrug* We shall see.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Why did Disney even buy any more of these sh*tboxes-on-wheels?
>Why did Disney even buy any more of these sh*tboxes-on-wheels?
We had a contract for 71 busses split up between three years.
4815-4832 - 2000
4833-4861 - 2001
4862-4885 - 2002
And actually, we're leasing them. (Thankfully) As of right now, Disney has NO plans to get any more of these heaps. We just can't afford the maintenance budget needed to keep them running. LOL
-Tyler-
AH! Luckily they're only here until the lease is up. It would be a good idea if Disney stuck with a proven product, like a New Flyer or Neoplan. That NABI from the APTA show was a very attractive bus, as well.
>AH! Luckily they're only here until the lease is up. It would be a
>good idea if Disney stuck with a proven product, like a New Flyer or
>Neoplan. That NABI from the APTA show was a very attractive bus, as
>well.
We tried out an Invero awhile back, but I don't think Disney was impressed by it. Nevertheless, I'd love to try out the D40LF... And indeed, the new NABI CompoBus does look attractive... I'd be curious to see how well it performs.
-Tyler-
Low floor bus makers really should try to whoo operations like disney, considering that they are only buying new low floor models.
The D40LF is a nice bus. Solid, maneuverable, attractive. The should definitely go with those.
How does that lease work with NovaBus? If at the end of the lease you just return them, will there be replacements? By the time you're done with them from the way it sounds, they'll be ready for the NIMCO shredder!
I've created a new system: LFS fresh off the production line, deilvered DIRECTLY into NIMCO. It saves everyone time and trouble!
LOL! I think our friend at Disney would love to operate that shredder machine. I can't believe the junk that transit systems are forced to deal with. I feel for everyone that has to drive them. What may be aesthetically pleasing to the eye or have creature comforts for the passengers sure doesn't make up for what the drivers go through.
>How does that lease work with NovaBus? If at the end of the lease
>you just return them, will there be replacements? By the time you're
>done with them from the way it sounds, they'll be ready for the
>NIMCO shredder!
The lease is actually through SunTrust Bank... not quite sure how it works at the end of the lease... however... they're already ready for the shredder. I think many of our drivers would pay money to see that happen... nice big tailgate party... lol
On a side note... I find it ironic that NovaBUS removed the "Quality & Technology" from thier logo... never should have been on there.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
Just like a car or a plane for that matter. The bank owns the bus. The operator could choose to cotinue leasing them once the initial term is up or give them back
"And indeed, the new NABI CompoBus does look attractive"
If this bus performs well it will be a top seller
It's composit frame(same material used as airplane frame's) is much lighter then steel frames which allows it to create a 45 ft bus with two axal's. Plus it's kight weight makes it more fuel effecient
Saw it this morning when I was working on a model for a car show. During a nighttime shot in front of the Miami International Airport, a Miami-Dade Fishbowl rolls by. With its interior lights on, there was no mistaking that classic profile. Anyone seen other buses on this show? I keep thinking one day I may run into a Flxible or two towards the end of the series, as they began receiving them in the late 1980s.
-Fred Donaher
"Just Another Coach Potato"
Was that the episode where 2 young guys try to get involved with smuggling? On that episode towards the end they were at the airport and a Miami fishbowl with batwings passes by in the background, lit up I think. Maybe that's what you saw. Which TV channel currently shows Miami Vice?
TNN is the current shareholder of everything rerun in the Miami Vice department...it usually airs from 11 AM to 1 PM EST.
Also, this morning at around 8 or 9, I caught an episode of "Nash Bridges"; in it, his father emerges from an SF Muni Fishbowl at a retirement home. Funny how two forms of golden-hued rolling aquatic life show up on the same show...the above mentioned Fish, and then Don Johnson's alter ego cruising around San Fran with Cheech Marin in that awesome Barracuda.
Speaking of the latter, did you hear about how much the Nash Bridges Plymouth 'Cudas went for in a recent Barrett-Jackson auction?
-Fred
I caught one of the early episodes of Miami Vice today on TNN, pre-Lieutenant Martin Castillo. Miami buses spotted in this episode were a Flxible newlook and an RTS.
EEEEEK....(Shrieking like a schoolgirl with delight)...REALLY?!? A Flxible New Look? Get OUT....what a day for me to miss an episode!!! Do you know how excited I would have been to SEE this? The Flxible New Look is my favorite bus of all TIME!!!
Also, I did not realize Miami-Dade had an RTS in their fleet, but hey, it is a big city. Speaking of early episodes, I recently found a Micro Machines Ferrari Daytona Spyder...it resembles the Crockett and Tubbsmobile right down to a tee and is currently on eBay.
-F.
can someone post the web address for the UTC roster? The current one at transitalk is still dated 1/18/03.
All you had to do is put in a search for "Urban Transit Club" and the website comes up.
Urban Transit Club
-AcelaExpress2005 - R143 #8265
Wanna see some really great (NOT!!) bus modelling? Check out these three photos of what was a perfect waste of a Corgi GM fishbowl....the owner sent the "creation" to me to see if I could do anything to fix it. I had to apologize to him, as the only thing I could tell him I could do was...bust up laughing!!
This fine piece of work (!!) comes from some "artiste" who was always bragging about how great his modelling skills and talents were...and would turn just about every post he made into a sales pitch.
I'm sorry for the double-line URL's, but I do not know how to insert a direct link yet. Just cut and paste into your browser....hopefully they'll go through.
Photo 1:
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=64382785&photoID=64382865&security=DjBGta
Photo 2:
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=64382785&photoID=64382951&security=NXlGli
Photo 3:
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=64382785&photoID=64383044&security=kHrDrK
The "creator" of this abortion obviously does NOT have the skills he claimed to possess. He attempted to cast a tailgate out of some material that is warping by the week, and then glued it on with some unknown glue which simply is NOT holding. Of course, a LOT of parts were glued on OVER the silver paint. Marker lights appear to have been made from wooden matches!! The a/c housing looked to be about twice as high as it should be -- and appears to have been formed from a large lump of something. It even has the creator's fingerprints cast into it!! The screening used on the rear grillework scales out to be larger than chain-link fencing for the model. The side windows are just printed paper, glued onto a painted piece of plastic covering the entire original window panel, and the glue is NOT holding. The plastic over the window panel is warping. The dark blue on the model appears to have been applied using tape material and it is peeling off in spots. The drivers window is devoid of details...it is a flat piece of plastic covered with electrical tape and taped inside the hole. The door windows were hand painted AFTER the rest of the model without the benefit of any masking tape (it surely shows....) The creator also glued (right OVER the silver paint, of course it's not going to hold...) some wheel wheel liner extensions that stuck out a scale six inches (measured with an O-scale ruler...) from the body, making it look likeit had some Volkswagen fender inbreeding.
All in all, what a mess -- considering the modeller who did it bragged so much about how he "could do this" and "could do that". I was shocked when I saw how bad this person's modelling REALLY is!!
I don't like to moan and groan about things that happen to me on WMATA, especially since I ride so infrequently, but lately, I've been really frustrated with the attitudes of the employees there.
Pam, my fiancee, needed to be at work super early this morning, before the metro started actually, so I let her take my car and I told her I'd take the bus to work today. She let me use her Smartrip card since it actually had money on it, not like mine that's in a deficit. I used it with no problems, got to work, etc.
I asked a coworker of mine if he could drive me up the street to Dunn Loring since the stop for the 1C on Rte. 50 was buried by snow and there really isn't a safe place along there to wait for the bus, so I was going to take the Orange Line home to Ballston. Well, as I got out of his car, the 2C to Ballston pulls up. I figure, I'll take that since metrorail was still quirky today and the bus was right there and it was raining and all. Arlington Division Orion V 2153 is sitting there, so I walk up and the bus driver has some napkins in his hand and is walking off the bus as I'm about to board. In unintelligible English, he mumbles, "The Smartrip ain't workin'". I said, "Can I still board as I have money on my Smartrip and its not my fault your box isn't working". He then says again more rudely, "The Smartrip AIN'T WORKIN'" I stood there for a moment and I was so close to get up in his face and cuss him out, but I took the adult approach and just walked away to take the metro home and use up more money on the Smartrip than the bus would have. That's not the point, though, its the fact that this bastard gets an attitude that his stupid farebox isn't working. I'd like to know how WMATA can brag about this stupid new farebox when it doesn't work and why should people who have already put money on the card that WMATA has already collected be forced to pay again? With their ridership floundering as it is, they don't need these problems. Wait until this goes systemwide. I can just see the complaints WMATA will get if this happens more often.
I wrote an email to WMATA's customer service. A lot of good that will do. They're just as incompetent as the fool I dealt with this afternoon.
It aggravates me so much because I know this guy is working hard for a living, but boy does he need some customer service skills. I think the NYCT bus drivers need to come down here and pound some sense into these guys!
Wow, they responded to my email already. Here is what they said:
"Thank you for taking the time to contact us about the problems that you
experienced with the driver of your bus. I am very sorry that you
encountered any difficulties, especially since providing outstanding
customer service is so important to Metro. The information that you
have provided will help us to identify the driver so that we can take
proper disciplinary action. The driver will be interviewed and
reinstructed in his/her duties. Safe and courteous service is the
responsibility of every Metro employee and conduct that deviates from
that will not be tolerated. We apologize for the unprofessional
behavior of this individual and hope that future Metro experiences will
be more positive."
Case closed as far as I'm concerned and it sure felt good to write to them. I probably should have waited a little while after I got home to write, but I was pretty pissed. I figured this is what they'd say. I definitely don't want this guy to get fired and its not like I expect a free farecard or something like that, but if stuff like this is going on unreported, they need to have a backup plan for those that are relying on those cards to use, or just in general if the box is suffering other malfunctions that need correcting before more than just a few Arlington customers start up.
Hate to break it to you, but my understanding is that throughout this SmarTrip test, you are susposed to have the cash fare available so that if the box isn't working, you can pay. Even so, I don't think that excuses the driver's actions.
The drivers have been very inconsistent with this whole thing. I've been hearing that Four Mile Run drivers that operate on Arlington routes let the Smartrip people on for free, while others don't. There really needs to be a little more consistency with this.
The Four Mile drivers are probably used to the normal WMATA policy. If any part of the box is not working, you ride free. Arlington drivers should have been specifically told if the box isn't working, they are susposed to pay a regular cash fare. Can't say there is a real way around that problem.
Don't count on anything happening. You got the automated response to any email that goes to CSVC@WMATA.Com. I sent in a complaint Dec 30 over a Rt 66 bus driver who left late because he'd rather talk to his compatriots than ran his bus on time and leave Georgia Avenue-Petworth station on time -- plus leaving the passenger literally out in the cold.
I stayed on top of it. The rep told me that Northern Division lost the complaint three times. I spoke to the director of Customer Service and told her to talk to Steve Ramey, General Manager or superintendent of ALL Metrobus operations. I'll bet I'll get an answer now.
Look for the case number in the message they sent you. Call Metro after 20 days and ask for the status of your case number. Then you'll find out that the automated response is crap. Keep their feet to the fire.
Michael
Washington, DC
Sounds like a lot of effort to go through to get back at an operator running a couple minutes late...
It's not that the operator was running late. The operator left the ORIGIN late because he thought it was more important to talk to his buddies than run his bus on time. There's a big difference between running late because of traffic and weather and running late because the B/O decides to run on HIS schedule and NOT the public timetable.
Also, it was cold that day. I can't prove it, but it certainly seems coincidental that I was standing in the cold on a Saturday and on Monday I was sick as a dog. I missed out in coming to NY for New Year's Eve.
Michael
Washington, DC
From what I'm hearing, at the parking lots you can use your Smartrip as well and if it doesn't work, you have to come up with the cash, too. My friend asked them what happens if you don't have the cash and was told you get billed. Whatever. I'd toss any bill I get from Metro in the trash. I'd like to see that go to collections! LOL. Some system they have there.
Its pretty funny that you followed up on that. I'm sure any complaint they get is 'lost'. I know my compaint went into cyberspace anyway. I'd delete it if I had to read my rant. LOL. I don't have time to follow up on it because I dont' really care, I got it off my chest. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's complained about the Smartrip thing not working and they have more on their plate to deal with. Maybe the driver of your bus had a few extra minutes. Even if they're late on the schedule, they are mandated a certain amount of time. So if they were 5 minutes late pulling in and have a 10 minute layover, they still take the 10 minutes even if it means they're still 5 minutes late. I'm not saying that's what happened in your case, but i've seen that happen before.
In addition, many routes have too much time on them. Often, an operator needs to leave five, up to ten minutes late just so that he/she doesn't hit a time point down the road hot. If that's the case and there is another operator also laying over, I don't find it that unreasonable that they conversed with each other.
It's unfortunate that this B/O didn't respond in a positive and professional manner. I also don't want to see anyone lose their job, but hopefully this B/O will get some sort of warning that will serve as a wake-up call. I remember many times in NYC when the fare box was jammed or not taking the MetroCard - everyone who boarded that bus got a free ride.
Wayne
You would have thought the fare was going to be deducted from his pay by the way he reacted! At that point, I think you had two stubborn people (me and the driver) butting heads and neither one of us was giving in. He wont get fired, I doubt he'll even get trained or lectured or whatever that generic language they used was. I never used to complain or write any letters, but in this day and age with such awful customer service in all sectors, including retail, restaurants, etc., it came to a boiling point. We all work hard for our money, so we should get some sort of positive return.
I was wondering what happens in NYC in that case. You can't expect people to all of a sudden dig in their wallets for exact change or wait for the next bus because the metrocard reader isn't working.
--I was wondering what happens in NYC in that case. You can't expect people to all of a sudden dig in their wallets for exact change or wait for the next bus because the metrocard reader isn't working.
Free ride.
I agree with you. I think good customer service is very important. I don't expect anyone to go out of their way. If they do... then that's a nice bonus, but just basic decent customer service is good enough for me. By the same token I also hate to see customers giving the employee/business person a hard time. I've seen many people say rude things to B/O, T/O & C/R on trains/buses that are running late or have some other problem. Yes, this was the case with NYCTA for many years - which is common sense to me - and I agree that it would be unacceptable to deny a ride to a passenger because of a malfunctioning farebox.
Wayne
Having worked at Sears for 4 years and driving a bus for two really gave me a better understanding of what its like to deal with customers. So, to this day, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and instead of confronting them directly, just write a letter of displeasure. I'm not a confrontational person at all, and it wasn't worth it to start yelling at him as it was a stupid conversation to be having with him in the first place. I see people yelling at sales associates, bus drivers, etc., and its just stupid to do that. Just as I did, suck it up for the time being and take care of administratively.
I agree, I agree. I'm not confrontational either. However, I have a major issue with people speaking to me in a rude and/or disrespectful way. I refuse to engage in a shouting match as there's nothing to gain, but I'll usually say what I have to say and move on. ... for what it's worth - I think you handled that situation well.
Wayne
Exactly. I know full well I overreacted and I probably shouldn't have written to them but at the time that was my mindset. I think the stress of having to re-do our wedding location and trying to figure out the finances for it is causing me to short circuit when certain things happen, especially over silly things like this! We had to go to a store tonight for some things and she made me go to another part while she paid because she was trying to use two coupons for this one thing and I told her I'd get them to accept it if they didn't. She just said, "After the way you were when you came home, no way!" LOL
I seem to have the same problem with an operator on route 46 of Ride On. I had her yesterday as my driver and when she pulled out of Rockville station, a passenger was running after the bus and stopped her in the outbound bus loop lane. The driver opened her door and shouted to the passenger
"You cant get on here, u gotta wait at the bus stop!"
"But it's a long wait till the next bus"
"TOUGH!"
"but.."
"TOUGH!"
I would thought it was be sensible if she had let him on with a warning, seeing that she had already stopped her bus and OPENED the door, why not just let him on? I had her again today and when she approached the bus bay at Rockville station, a certain person was standing too close to the bus as she pulled in the bus bay. When that person boarded her bus, she yelled at him with "WHAT ARE U CRAZY?! DONT STAND THAT CLOSE TO THE BUS! ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?? DONT STAND THAT CLOSE NEXT TIME! IF I HIT U, IT AINT MY FAULT" It wouldnt be wrong if she warned him but YELLING at him is completely wrong. Someone needs to teach some respect into this driver.
The only thing there is that its dangerous to go chasing the bus after its left the stop. If the bus stopped and she got rear-ended by a car, bus, etc. and she had to explain why that happened, and she said it was to pick up a passenger running after the bus, she could get into a lot of trouble. Same thing with standing waiting for the bus. I always back off a bit because you could get hit by the mirror or the bumper and people are always looking for ways to sue the TA's.
Customer Service
Where should I begin. The reason why customer service is not as good as it is these days because of many reasons. One reason is that many people think that they should get all of the attention even when it is busy. One time I had a customer who got mad at me when I wasn't paying attention to her kids like she thinks it should have been, and at the time I was helping about 2-3 other people. Everyone else appreciated my service, even though she didn't and actually was ticked at her attitude. Another reason is that customers, to put it plainly are people are really rude, some don't even say anything when you ask them "How Are You Doing Today". I sometimes feel like asking myself how am I doing just so I could get an answer. Finally, some people think that people get mad when they don't hear what they want to hear. I actually had one person try to fight me just because I wouldn't give him a receipt when he didn't have one to give one and our return policy is that if you don't have a receipt, you don't get one back. I have had some other complaints on this particular one.
Being in retail, I have learned to understand that people make mistakes and if it isn't serious, I just shrug it off and be on my way. Some people need to realize that if it wasn't for people who work in customer service or retail, what would they do, who would they complain to, who would help them. Also those in customer service should have somewhat of a thick skin in that, a customer doesn't mean to attack them personally, just the policies of that particular company. When they attack a customer service representative personally without provocation, that is something else. I personally ignore them and after throwing a fit, they leave.
I always say, you never know, I could be the person that could save your life, or get you out of a situation, so personal shots shouldn't be part of complaint.
The driver in question should have had a solution to that problem, either let you on the bus for free, or stated IN A PROFESSIONAL manner, that the farebox isn't working and that it won't be able to take your smartcard, I can only take cash, if you don't have any money, you could wait for the next bus in so-in-so minutes or take the train, "WHERE ARE YOU GOING, THE TRAIN MAY BE THE SAME COST OR A FEW CENTS MORE". I think that WMATA needs to train their passengers are customers and not riders and they need to treat their customers respectfully. That is how you increase ridership and prevent fare increases, job cuts and service reductions.
That was my two cents worth.
OOPS!!! I meant that WMATA should train their drivers to not treat riders as riders, but as customers, that is what Dick White has been trying to get across since he has been here.
Yeah, I agree, Wes. People treat sales people so bad. The old addage that the customer is always right, really doesn't hold true anymore. We really live in a "Me first" society and the days of waiting your turn, being courteous to others and just biting your tongue deosn't seem to work. That's why I just said "F it", it wasn't worth anymore than him telling me twice it wasn't working. I could have said some stuff, but hey, I'm a lover not a fighter! LOL. I have enough respect for someone not to talk back to someone as it isn't professional and isn't nice. I did what was my 'right' and complained to WMATA and they responded and they'll do whatever they need to do. He really could have said it in a different way and you're right, just a little tweaking of customer service and case closed. I would have even paid if he said it in a different tone, but by that time I didn't want to give in to him. Its better that he ran into a mild mannered person like me in this situation than 20 angry commuters later on who may not have been so diplomatic about it. Ugh, the times we live in!!!
One thing I really hate is when during a complaint, they claim that they were in retail. I don't care if you were in retail, I am in it now. Even if I left retail, I would never say I worked in retail in an arguement in a retail dispute to get my way.
Good call, couldn't agree more. Once when managing in a supermarket, a woman gave me some s*%& and said she works retail and would never dream of treating customers as poorly as I did. Needless to say, if she knew anything about everything (as she claimed), she would have known that was exactly the wrong thing to say. She eventualy got what she needed, however, she would have gotten it 15 minutes quicker and minus the attitude had she known what to say and what not to say. People need to realize that no one cares if they've done the same job before and nobody wants to hear them gloat about how much better at it they were!
*steps off soap box*
Yea, that is if she was better, she probably got fired for imcompetence or for having that same attitude.
Well there's some drivers that would not yet you ride free if the MetroCard is not working right.
Happin back a long time ago when I got on the Q17 and it said "Card Error" and the driver asked me if I had $1.50 and I said no but he yet me ride anyway then when I got on the Q46 and I got anouther "Card Error" and driver asked the same thing and I said no but this driver forced me to get off the stop after 188 St and I ended up going to get change and then went back on the Q46 and try the card again and it did take it. It was a unlimted ride metrocard BTW that my mom loaned me that did not work right on the Q88,Q17,and the 1st Q46 I got on.
When I used my RFM(I on a Disability BTW)on the M14,I got Card Error and I had to pay 75 Cents and the driver was not going to move until I pay my fare,Ouch!
BTW my mom had loaned me her 30 Day Unlimted on Thursday and I used it on the Q34 and I got "Card Error" and the driver told me that I ride free but I tryed the card again 2 more time,After he told me I can ride free and as I was getting off the Q34 and I got the same thing but worked fine on the Q27
I hate to break it to you, but, this is a brief, common transcript of what happens when you call in and report at Pittsburgh PAT operator. Most complaints aren't even handled by the director of the division, they are handled by the Assistant. Unless your operator punches you in the face or murders your first-born child, this is pretty much the standard procedure. Not saying I agree with it, but, that's the way it is.
Asst. Service Delivery Director: Hello operator _____________.
Operator: Hello _____________.
Asst. Service Delivery Director: My records show that you were working XXX route with XXXX bus at X:XX time on XX/XX day. Is that correct?
Operator: Yes it is.
Asst. Service Delivery Director: Customer service records show that a passenger reported that you ____________________. Did this occur? How would you like to respond.
Operator: *Shakes head* I have no knowledge of that incident sir/maam.
Asst. Service Delivery Director: Okay, write that on this form and sign it.
Operator: *Signs form*
Asst. Service Delivery Director: Have a good day.
*End of story never to be talked about or brought up again.*
I figured as much. Its more of a case of venting and just getting it off my chest than anything. They can delete my email or put it through the shredder. As infrequently as I ride, I wouldn't even recognize him if I rode with him again.
He took the wrong approach. As I tell some of my employees, you never know who is going to walk through that door, so do your best to give good customer service. I don't believe he should have been fired either, but he should go into some customer service training. I think that also somewhere along the line he will be treated rudely by some customer service representative, he will realize that he needs to be more sensitive to customer's needs. He could be the reason why people do or don't want to ride transit. Drivers if they don't realize it they are advertisements for transit.
Last night, while I'm waiting at 145th and St. Nick, a Blue Bird pulls up, and out comes several national guardsmen with automatic rifles, entering the subway station. I didn't even want to know where they were headed or what would make 145th st station an ideal staging area.
The outbound trip is packed as usual for 7:30 in the evening. That is, until Lenox, when some (use your own expletive) individual who can't get on board b/c the bus was front heavy, nearly destroys the glass on the front door. So the B/O has to take the bus out of service, leaving the many people on the bus and on the sidewalk to wait for the next trip. I walk to 149th and GC since I figured it would take two buses to sort this mess out. And as I get to GC, I see that same Blue Bird again, heading east towards The Hub.
Today, I get off the #2 subway at The Hub. I'm forced to pass up the first bus, since it was going as far as GC. The next one is right behind it, fairly empty. But not for long, b/c there were dozens of passengers at GC who had to get on board because the bus they were on got stuck in the pile of snow on the street. Bus # 199.
i saw a Buses that looked like a artic by the bay could it be service going to MCH i doubt it i not starting no rumor But why is #5529 at MCH
9624 - m102
[But why is #5529 at MCH?]
Because it was sent there.
North American Bus Industries recently got a contract to build 200 articulateds for the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (LACMTA), most of them for service on the current Metro Rapid routes, the 720, 745, 750, and 754 lines, plus two new Rapid lines, the 711 and 761 lines...other articulateds for regular LACMTA lines. The NABI 40LFWs on two of those Rapid lines, most likely the 720 and the 750 lines, might be displaced to other Rapid lines, like the 745 and 754 and the two new routes, due to high 720 and 750 ridership.
These buses will be NABI's 60-LFW CNG 60-foot low-floor compressed natural gas-powered articulated buses, the CNG version of the articulateds that CTA in Chicago ordered. The NABI 40C-LFWs in the high 7900s in LA will be transferred to Division 18 (currently, they are operating on the Rapid lines out of Divisions 7 and 8).
More information as it comes.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
[...plus two new Rapid lines, the 711 and 761 lines....]
Where are these lines supposed to operate?
I forgot what my friend told me...when I talk to him again, then I will tell you.
Carlotn
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
The 711 will operate on Florence Ave ( along with the current 111)
The 761 will replace the current 561 ( Lakeview Terrace-Van Nuys-Westwood).
There has been discussion of the latter route on the newsgroup
la.transportation of late, mainly because the 761 will end at Westwood
and not continue vis the San Diego Freeway (I-405) to the LAX area (currently terminates at the Metro Green Line Aviation Blvd station). Also, it isn't clear if the 761 will use the 405 between Ventura Blvd in Sherman Oaks and Westwood as does the 561, the alternative would be Sepulveda Blvd.
[...the 761 will end at Westwood and not continue vis the San Diego Freeway (I-405) to the LAX area (currently terminates at the Metro Green Line Aviation Blvd station).]
Most trips on the 561 end at Westwood anyway; it seems to be about every 45-60 minutes to/from LAX. The one time I rode it (from Van Nuys & Nordhoff to LAX), only four of us rose south of Westwood, and one got off at Fox Hills Mall. Maybe it's better to run a shorter and more reliable route to Westwood only, with transfers to Culver CityBus #6 for LAX.
Plus, about half of those 561's change to/from the 233 at Ventura Blvd in order to make local stops along Van Nuys Blvd. (Not that it really matters; my driver lost huge amounts of time on Van Nuys due to people giving up locals in order to crowd onto a limited.) It might be easier to "extend" the 233 to Westwood rather than confuse everybody by changing routes during the trip.
- - - - -
[Also, it isn't clear if the 761 will use the 405 between Ventura Blvd in Sherman Oaks and Westwood as does the 561, the alternative would be Sepulveda Blvd.]
On my one 561 ride, the driver used Sepulveda instead of the freeway between Ventura and Sunset. (Not that I felt "cheated" at all, since MTA doesn't impose the freeway-zone charge for that stretch.)
>>> The 711 will operate on Florence Ave ( along with the current 111) <<<
How far east will the 711 go? I am at the eastern end of the 111, where the service is every 30 minutes, and even then the buses are almost empty. I cannot imagine that they would run the 711 east of Downey, if that far.
Tom
Just wondering if anyone had a chance to observe the NYCT articulateds in Manhattan and the Bronx after the snowstorm. I imagine there was some tough "sledding" on the M79 where it makes a tight turn from Amsterdam into 81st St. EB, and on the BX9 on the Kingsbridge Road hill. And the BX4 under the els along Westchester Ave. was probably tough going also. Any observations welcome. Thank you in advance.
These damn snow plows pushed snow on 225 street today and it made the street bad. RTS and Artic # 5320 got stuck into snow for about 5 minutes. It was sad
AMI
Gentlemen of the board I have a special announcement to make.That special announcement is.... -play's trumpet's- I'm not a girl at all.
I'm really a guy.100% guy.I've been putting up this girl act because I knew girls don't have much say in the transit world so I decided to change that and pretend to be a girl who know's it all and who was a tough,don't take crap from nobody girl.After riding with Trevor tonight I told him I'd drop the girl act on my birthday next month but then I changed my mind.So sorry to have done this but hey,I couldn't resist.Afterall,I'm all for the opposite sex being equal to the male's and all that stuff.It was fun while it lasted.
LMAO!!!! You're kidding right? (nervous smile)
Nope,I'm dead serious
OK, if your name isn't Darlene, what is it? (confused)
It's Ozzy.I already sent a feedback to David about this.God,I hope he doesn't get mad about this. -looks very worried-
" I don't give a **** about the dog pissin on the patio"
o.0 what the?
Hmm... Let me guess, your last name is Osbourne. Only he could do something this ridiculous. :)
Confirmed, V Train is a Dude!
I actually didn't even know about the girl act until someone asked me "How was she" after the first time Ozzy rode with me (Goes to show how much I actually READ the board).
The next time he rode with me, I question Ozzy about that and he explained to me why he did it, Then I remembered a while back there was HUGE stink on Subtalk about Female Transit Buffs. So I played my part and kept silent.
But V Train is a Dude!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
He's not really ozzy , is he?
Nope, actually I make a nice joke about that last night but no, He's a cool person. No complaints!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
My name is Ozzy Zamora,my name means divine power so....BOW DOWN BEFORE ME YOU RUFFION!!! (lol)
Any relationship to Lonnie Zamora?
Nope,none at all.Never even heard of her.
Actually, it's a him...
Whoops.
Cool Name, Ozzy!!! ( Bow) ( bow) (Bow)
Well my actual name is hard to pronounce.Trust me,ton's of people have had trouble so since Ozzy is a whole lot easier,it's better to stick by that name
Hard to pronounce names are cool!
Not this one.It's a spanish name so I'm of spanish decent.My last name Zamora has long history that goes back to Spain before the 20th century.
History's cool!
-raises an eyebrow- To you maybe,to me,I could care less about history.It isn't gonna get me a job nor help me succeed in life. Side's,I'm glad I'm living now and not back then.I wouldv'e been so bored without video games and all that.I just can't stand the old days,thus why I hate Europe since that country is old school.
Yeah, most history is boring. Video Games are awesome(thank God for the PS2), and so are Buses.
Oh God!You like the PS2 as well? When are people gonna realize that the X-Box is way better than the PS2?
I would take a PS2 over X-Box, which is just a mini-computer.
The problem with Z-Box is that thier is no software for it. There is just moe games for PS2.
Yeah, PS2 is the best, although I do have Gamecube.
Z-Box? Microsoft is already announcing that? They still have to do the Y-Box...
How so?
You don't find the history of the subway system interesting? Sometimes you gotta understand what came earlier to see how things progressed.
BTW, history CAN get you a job...you can become a history teacher (or Professor) :)
I said history in general not the subway history.Yes I find the subway history interesting.And no thanks on being a teacher.I want nothing to do with school anymore.
you also sliped up,by telling us you cover ''HIS''fare on your bus not to long ago[i believe it was the first time HE rode with you]
I see a future politician here.....
Me?You wish. I HATE POLITICS!It makes me sick,just like the cops.
wow
Damm I almost got the nerve to ask you out
shucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
hah!wouldnt you have been in for a surprize?
ROTFLMAO!!
If I was really a girl,you wouldn't have lasted 5mins with me.Woulda knocked you so hard for just touching me,you'd need a whole new voice of reason.
oh ,,,,so you finally came out of the closet,huh?[lol] dude, that took balls.... and it was funny,too boot!so let hear it for Vtrain[guy] and let hope that chick is dead!![lol]Man,she got on my nerves sometimes...[hah]!!!!
Yeah I know, that was some funny stuff ;-). V Train B47 Bus finally admits HIS real self *applause*.
yeah ... he told me via e-mail,when we were going to ride with Trev about 3 weeks ago.Man I found that to be toooo sweet.So the question remains,are there others on this board frontin too?
Thank you,thank you. -bows- I know I'm gonna miss the girl act but hey fun while it lasted.
it was a hoot![did i just say that?] must be the meds...
Hey hey,be careful man.Don't push your luck or else that girl is gonna give you a royal can of whoop-ass.heh heh heh heh heh.
Weird,just plain weird.
Peace.
ANDEE
How's it weird?
I kind of figured that. You and the MTA have one thing in common....I guess "anything can happen", huh? LOL! Well, now that you are a guy, maybe we can chat sometime?
Ray
Let me be the first to say (I believe, because I haven't read through the thread), "Who Cares"?
Can we move on to more transit related topics now?
Yeah, enough of that thread.
Amen.
What is up with Triboro and Green Lines? Ick!!!
I went to a friend's house and rode creepy 709 on the Q60-S L O W!
Waited 10-12 minutes for 720 on the Q39. This is not a bus that comes often.
On the way back I decided to ride a FP bus-9163 on the B24. Pretty good. Then 408 Q104-that bus was a squealer.
Later on I went out to Queens Center Mall. Waited about 15 minutes at 5pm and 1146 pulled into 48 St mobbed. I swear people are such stoonads. All but myself and 1 other person waited for an Onion that was 2 blocks away. And the bus that showed up was 5522. And for an Onion this bus ran very well. We passed 1146 at 66 St. Didn't see it pass us by the time I got off at Woodhaven. It was lingering behind...somewhere.
On the way back there were no Q60s whatsoever and this was at 6pm.
10 minutes go by NO Q60. Saw 3062 Q53. Decided to ride on it to Grand Ave-that bus not only has a gray panel in the rear but it has no number. It looks horrible-rode horrible too. The whole bus shook and rattled. Blah!!!
I decided to wait for the Q60 again. 20-30 minutes go by still no bus. At 635 3 buses show up back to back to back: 237 257 and 281. So I rode 257. Pretty good bus but why the huge gap and bunching?
Another note that annoys the heck out of me: At QBP and/or at Continental, when 2 buses pull in 1 goes out empty and 1 goes out full. Does any other operation do this? GBL does this all the time and it sucks!!!
Also every time I wait for either a Triboro and Green-I wait longer than usual-especially for a Triboro Bus.
When I was going to work at 8am, there were more Q32 than Q60 and sometimes there was no Q60 for about 30-60 minutes then they show up in bunches.
These operations simply said-SUCK!
I sure hope that the MTA can come in and clean up their acts!!!
It has gone too far!!!
FYI I believe Triboro is worse than GBL. Look at the CNG 3000 Series and get back to me.
CNG=Completely No Good!!!
#9163 B24
#9495 Q32
Waiting 10 to 12 minutes for a Q39 is damn good! It runs much less frequently than that in the middle of the day....You ought to be ranting about the B24. Now that route has very long scheduled intervals in between buses......As for the Q60, yes that is a very poor performer. If you ever rode it from end to end and follow the schedule you will see the running time is inadequate. Too much traffic along Queens Blvd. And don't forget in may areas there is only one lane of traffic. The time needed to approach and cross the Queensboro Bridge is quite unpredictable. I'll guarantee if bus fans on this board become a bus driver when they grow up and work the Q60, you'll retire from the hobby!
I agree, Triboro and Green Lines need to get their acts together. I remember riding a Q60 heading west and it was one of the worst buses I ever rode. It smelled horribly, litter was everywhere. Thank god I don't have to ride on them everyday.
'Onions' ALWAYS run well.
Gary. The reason why it was like this was because some parts of Queens Blvd is verry bad,63 Drive area is one of the places where traffic is verry bad. Queens Blvd is verry bad at rush hours. and also to add pain,The ridership is high on the Q60.
The reason why you see more people on the 1st bus leaveing QBP and 71 Ave then the 2nd one is because people would go on the 1st bus they see. Same thing can be said for the M15 with this factor. If the MTA takes over,It would stay the same with the Traffic and everything and yes this also happins with MTA like GBL sometimes but I don't see this happing much anymore,Take it from anouther person who lives near the Q60.
Well I find Green Lines Bus Co. to be the cheapest company I ever seen or rode. I had to take the Q6 in the mornings and that bus line was the worst. They run brokendown Gmc's from 84 and taped together Nova's from 94. the only good equipment they have is the 98 orion fleet which day by day is slowly dying.The DOT needs to stop avoiding them.
Triboro Coach has treated me fine I dont have a bone to pick with them so far.
1st off-1143-1182 are 1993/1994 TMC RTS buses-Not Novas.
Next 5501-5550 are 1997 Orions not 1998.
And the GMCs are from 1985/1986/1988.
653-654 are former Triboro Methanol Powered buses M5 (653) and M6 (654). These 2 buses now have gray and red seats when it was converted to diesel. And these are the ONLY 2 buses that are from 1988.
#653 Q10
#1162 Q60
#5502 Q11
Just tried to access the site and an unauthorized to view message.(tried thru both my AOL(Microsoft Internet Explorer and Yahoo 7.0-Netscape7.0 I get the same message)
I know of the current problem, I'm dealing with my server host in getting the problems fixed!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks Trevor.
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Now that we had a snow storm and we talk about Fresh Pond! Fresh Pond! Fresh Pond! and we talk about the half man half woman on the board. Let talk about artic! artic! artic! Where are 126 street artic at? Went to 125 st depot and the few artic they had there have disappear and I see 5518 om Quill depot now.
5518 never at 126 st.
It sure was. I drove it. Once and for all to set the record straight these are the only 4 new articulated buses that have been assigned to 126th Street Depot; 5511, 5517, 5518 & 5520. 5510, 5513 & 5519 have never been at 126.
I can make my plan to ride the QM24 on Monday, and while I'm in Manhattan, I'll watch some buses to see if theres anything interesting.
Today I rode th M14 to 6 Street and service was comming about every few minutes because of the L Train G.O. No L service at 3 ave and 1 Ave. Alot of riders BTW on this extra service. Alot of buses where from HP and there was some from MV,MJQ,and 126. Many of them ran the line from Delancey to Union Square,Others to 11 Ave.
I rember the last time this G.O. happin. I saw mostly HP and MJQ Buses and some buses from MCH and MV. I rode #8278 from MV on the M14 that time.
BTW some buses where showing the M14 and the Subway Shuttle sign,Kept on switching between them
Yeah, I'm sure that was a VERY BUSY shuttle bus.
Yup it was. It be like this for the next few weekends
I might take a ride on it next weekend.
I remember the "Union Square" accident in 1991 where the buses on Park Avenue South were shuttles along with the regular service on the M1, M2 and M3.
What does that have to do with this, a lot of buses on Park Av that day, just like on 14th St with the L train. MCH, 132nd St (before MV), HUD, 100th St (before MJQ) and 126th St and even AMS (before becoming a Bronx Div. depot) helped with the shuttle service from 14th St to 42nd St. Rough commute!
Ray
[I rember the last time this G.O. happin]
The same operation was in effect last weekend, and the buses were extremely crowded on Saturday with all the war protestors in town. Most of the subway shuttles last weekend seemed to be 7500's out of 126 Street.
Its bad enought that Community Coach, Suburban & Olympia Trails stole 20-25 MCI D4000 Cruisers from us. Then stole a shit load of MCI 96-A3 1100s and gave them Olympia, Community Coach and Short Line. Now what was supposed to be the next batch of Coach USA D4500s for us HAS now been reassigned to Community and Suburban. UGH! You would thing the Money Maker's of Coach USA Northern District would be treated hella better!
Then to really beat the dead horse, now the County of Rockland has purchased MORE of those horrible Gilligs to replace my beautiful Orion 1s.
OH GOD IS THERE NO END!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches Coach USA Operator
Damn, now that sucks! A double whammy!
Which Gilligs are they getting;the low floor Advantages or the regular high floor models.
Phantom high floors. It is almost the reverse situation here, Ride On is getting Orion VIIs to replace Gilligs.
Geez, why is Community still being kept alive? They have ONE route! Transfer the 77 to ShortLine (they can deadhead straight down 287 from Mahwah to Morristown), and put CC out of its misery.
Community was supposed to close it's doors on February 7th when the NJT Bergen County 700 lines went to Academy, and the 77 was supposed to go to Paramus Depot. HOWEVER, the 77 is still running with Community Buses and out of the Passaic Depot. WTF!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Don't they still have charter service and the 351 service to the Meadowlands.
Troy
Current NJT sched does list CC on the 351, but they sure don't need a fleet of D4500s for it. CC already has a charter fleet - the NJT units don't have restrooms anyway, so chartering shouldn't be that big a deal, plus the NJT units can't be chartered during rush hours per FTA rules.
[the County of Rockland has purchased MORE of those horrible Gilligs to replace my beautiful Orion 1s.]
Hey, Trevor, when are the new Gilligs supposed to be coming in? Do you know what length they'll be? I'll have to try to get a ride on an Orion I on the 59 before they disappear!
And I woundering if it's the Gillig Phantom or the Gillig Low Floor??
it will be held on june 7, the location is not yet known.
I will try get the location my mom, she works at JG and she will be in the rodeo this year.
after a lull of two years it is now back. it lists dates of the history of nyct, of course some of them are wrong. call nyct dob and see if theyll send you one.
What lull? I have the 2001 and 2002 calendars. I do not however have the most recent 2003 calendar. I suppose the depot will get them around November.
these two buses at yukon sit on the defect track. hopefully they will be heading for nimco soon.
Please don't dump them in Fresh Pond. Let them go to Kingsbridge.
saw 1999 orion 6348 with a fresh coat of paint so these upgrades have begun.
Just about the entire fleet at QV is repainted regularly. It's not part of any 3-year upgrade project however. The shambles that is the interior is left intact. Doesn't matter how rough the ride, how loose the mirrors and most other semi-movable items become. Doesn't matter how stained the seats, how stinky the rear-door stepwell becomes. No matter how many sun visors don't stay in place nor how many seats don't properly adjust. Rest assured, you'll have a gleaming white QV bus sputtering around someplace. Most likely, in the opposite direction. Unless it's hooked to the rear of a tow truck, as is much of our fleet these days.
But hey. It looks darn pretty dragging out there, eh?
I'm all for having buses with a good paint job. However, I'd much rather see a bus be mechanically sound first and foremost. NYCTA seems to really waste lots of money (and time) on repainting buses. I'll never understand those folks.
Wayne
It's called "Window Dressing".
And if they didn't repaint the buses every few years, people would be in here grousing about how crappy the buses look.
As Ralph Kramden said, "Some people are NEVER satisfied."
David
As if NYCT cares if people were "grousing about how crappy the buses look".
I agree. As with where it assigns buses, NYCT doesn't go by what BusTalkers think. I was merely making the point that the BusTalkers would be complaining whether the buses get repainted every few years or not.
David
I don't think the NYCT DOB managers who control bus moves even realizes this board exists, let alone consider input from the participants. But you're right, even if they do, they couldn't care less what is said here.
[And if they didn't repaint the buses every few years, people would be in here grousing about how crappy the buses look.]
I don't think it is necessary to paint buses every 3 years in order to keep them from looking crappy. As I've mentioned in past posts, I can't think of any transit system in the U.S. (or anywhere, for that matter) that paints its buses as often as every 3 years. Some non-NYCT buses are lucky if they get painted even once during a 12-18 year lifetime. I would spend more on keeping up the interiors of NYCT buses and paint the exterior less often.
NYCT may have to paint their buses every 3 years because they are primarily white, which won't stand up to city dirt and grime for too long even if they are washed often.
Does that mean that the 1999 Novas (#4900-4944) are repainted? I know bus #4902 is repainted.
Ray
Well quite a few in ENY are repainetd, I think half of 126's 1999 Novas are repainted along with other depots but it took away some attractiveness to me; if the original Arial #'s were kept on the back at least it would of looked better it makes all the 1997/1998 and 1999 Novas look so uniformed.
Yeah, the original #'s look a lot better. And the white paint scheme sucks, the original one is so much better. A least 5063 I rode on Friday had the original #'s.
The upgrades for the exterior is nice but what about the interior of the bus? It is usually left with stains on the seat, gum on the floor, lots of dirt/dust, etc.
The password problem with TransiTALK has been resolved, this occured due to maintenance on our servers. Everything should be back to Normal, and hopefully tonight when I get home I will try to finish the update!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Is the photo gallery going to updated?
Yes it is.And it's gonna be a major update.Trev's told me about it and it's gonna be the best update in history.But I'm not gonna mention what new pic galleries are gonna be put up.It wouldn't be any fun that way.
While watching THIS MOVIE today I noticed a fishbowl that appeared 2X. Did anyone here supply it? (possibly GMARTIC?) Just curious.
Peace,
ANDEE
The Feb, 2003 New Jersey Transport Heritage says Chet Furmanek sold out to Stout and is liquidating his fleet. Anyone know what is becoming of all his buses, especially the manual-trans Fishbowl suburbans ?
I am curious myself. The Metropolitan New York Bus Assn had a great working relationship with him. They over the road coaches, I know he had Prevost #612 (rode it) and 9XX (I believe) and an MCI 881 which I heard were all leased. But Chet did own an extensive fleet of vintage buses as well. I am curious to find out what became of them.
I don't know, but you can check out Chet doing an occaisonal weekend or fill-in shift at "North Jersey 1500", WGHT from Pompton Lakes!
Click Here , scroll down to "Air Personalities", and then click on Chet's name for a bio!
[Anyone know what is becoming of all his buses, especially the manual-trans Fishbowl suburbans ?]
I understand that Chet only has two fishbowls left (the pair from Golden Gate Transit), and these were on the sale block. Generally, he is quite pleased with the homes his other historic buses have found, in that they are with collectors or others who know the importance of historic buses and will not see them destroyed.
Many years ago I traded Chet my T6H 4523N, ex ACTransit bus 817 for my T6H 5308A, ex NYBS 1322. I am glad that 817 has ended up with another collector and will be saved. It was a very clean and nice bus.... not that it came that way from ACTransit. Chet came out here with some buddies and drove 817 east with no problems. I flew to the east and drove back 1322 with only a few problems. The person who ended up with 817 has kept in touch and gives me updates on the bus.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
I remember some deal you could make by getting off the B46 at the 3/4 Utica Ave subway stop to save money, but remember NO particulars. How did it work?
Passengers who paid an extra 25 cents got a transfer to the IRT at Utica Avenue. That ended with the bus/subway transfer introduction with MetroCard.
I think you got a special paper transfer from the station to ride the 46 [and probably vice versa as well] so you didn't have to pay two fares.
Yes, this was another attempt of luring the customers from the dollar vans. I believe this was before limited service was introduce on the B46.
Da Beastmaster
I recall that passengers had to pay 1.75? on the B46 toward the station in the AM, which got them a ticket so they would only have to pay 0.50 on the bus coming home in the PM?
For those of you who haven't ventured over to my site in the past month and stumbled across my WMATA Neoplan pictures, they are now officially online, meaning they are reflected in the previous update recap. Also, some movies were put up including movies of their Clever Device system and the buses in motion. There is even a movie of a bus turning right from southbound 6th Street onto Mass Avenue, taken from inside the bus. I was sitting about 3 rows behind the articulated joint. You have to see this to believe it!
The URL is www.orenstransitpage.com. When you get to Grand Central, click Departures, then Washington, DC, and then Articulated Buses.
Better get pictures of those Clever Device systems in a working state fast, because that will not last long. Pure junk, nicknamed Un-Clever devices in Pittsburgh. The Neoplan Low-Floors in 1999 got them and the Neoplan Metroliners a year or so later was order with them as well. Most of these buses run around with SEE SIGN BELOW up, as the Clever Devices boxes are tied into the Luminator ODK which is covered up and inaccesible to the operator. The Clever Devices boxes break, so PAT locks the signs on SEE SIGN BELOW. Parts take forever to come in (months upon months) and tech support is almost non existant. Thankfully, PAT has decided not to waste any more money on this garbage any longer. The new Gilligs (which will I'm sure have enough problems without having this system) will not be Clever Devices equipped. Good luck.
Well you'll be glad to know all LI Bus CNG's have the Clever devices system, and that will continue when the next batch of Orions come in.
Havent noticed any problems with them. Well, the clever devices, that is!
Clever Devices is a nice system when everything is working. The problem is, the system needs a lot of maintenance to keep it functioning properly. PAT can't get some of their buses to stop, move forward and turn. If it starts and can make it out of the division (no guarantees about getting it back to the division) that is viewed by many as an accomplishment. Needless to say, the stop calling system takes a back seat to many more important and pressing issues.
The result is a system that doesn't work as it should. The volume is so low in some of the buses, you can barely hear it. However, in other buses, the system is cranked so high, it's practically screaming and you can hear it announcing itself two blocks down the street. Some buses call a stop two, three minutes early (especially when a route loops). Some buses call stops two or three block late. Some display the stops on the red LED lightboard, but, are mute. Some have nothing displayed on the LED lightboard, but do call them out. Some will work correctly, but only intermittently throughout a trip. Some systems in some of the buses unexplainably give the message "OFF ROUTE" when you haven't deviated at all. I've been told snow tires can throw the timing of the system off. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure.
Port Authority is at fault for a lot of it. I blame them for the sign problems and mismanagement of parts (they take long enough to come in as is) which creates longer delays in things getting fixed. However, Clever Devices is a very needy system and for as expensive as it is, I would expect something a bit more reliable and self-sufficient.
We have had them on all our new buses since 1997. For the most part, they are OK. 5312's wasn't working but other than that, all the Neos I saw that day were fine.
At SEPTA, all new buses starting with the NABIs - with the notable exception of those cutaway junkers - were equipped with an automatic stop announcement system from Orbital. Unlike the Clever Devices system (which, I will agree, is a great system - when it works), the Orbital system - at least as designed by SEPTA - only calls out major stops and/or transfer points instead of calling out every single stop. On the NABIs, operators are not able to access the Luminator ODK panel; on the Neo artics and New Flyers, the operator has to open the front bulkhead to access the TwinVision ODK; on the ElDorados, the ODK is accessible by opening a small cover but not the entire bulkhead.
That's not to say the Orbital system has it's share of problems, though most of those IMHO are SEPTA related problems. There are several routes (mainly the newly created lines or lines with new or extended routings) where there are no stop announcements entered into the system - the most notable lines are the 25 and 123 and for the "104 WEST CHESTER UNIVERSITY EXPRESS TO EAGLE ROAD". (Side note: there are announcements for the "104 WEST CHESTER UNIVERSITY" routing, however, it seemed to be pretty sloppily put together.) Only recently did SEPTA get around to adding announcements for the 133 and 305 routes, both of which were started within the past 2-3 years.
WMATA hasn't updated alot of their newer routings as well.
SEPTA used to call out every stop, but since it is manually done by the driver, often only the major stops are announced. Amusingly, the 44 announces a transfer to the R6 at Bala Avenue all the time, even through trains only come during rush hours and once midday.
The PAT Clever Devices systems out of the Ross Division call out only the major time points as well. Some major points aren't called that I feel should be. For the life of me, I can't understand why it doesn't call Perrysville & Charles, which is where a heavy majority of the people on this heavily frequented line ride to, but, it does call Perry & Ross Garage, a stop that nobody except for an occasional transfer, bus fan or operator gets off at.
All of the Harmar Division systems used to call EVERY stop, which is extremely annoying, especially on a 1A New Ken going up Freeport Road through the dozens of little towns and all of their accompanying side roads. Litteraly, every 2 seconds a new stop is being announced. Due to complaints, both from the public and the operators, most of the Harmar ones have been adjusted to only call major points, however, there are still a few that are in the original settings.
Not updating the system is a big problem at PAT too. The Clever Device boxes used to have a feature where you could change the sign code without programming the stop calling system, however, that option was removed, so now, you must program the stop calling system to get a sign. The problem is, on some routes, the wrong sign comes up for the wrong pattern. For instance, a 12A shopper bus that does not serve Passavant Hospital, often gets a sign that says VIA PASSAVANT when indeed that is incorrect. There is no way to override the incorrect sign. Sure, you could sift through the patterns loading each one until the right sign loads, but, sufice to say, that sign will be with the wrong pattern and the stop calling will be screwed up. However, this is a PAT problem and not a Clever Devices problem since they are the ones that had the option removed from the box, assigned the wrong signs with the wrong patterns and bolted a steel metal plate over the Luminator ODK so that operators can't use it. This problem only exists with routes that have recently had major destination sign changes recently, as did the 12A. The stop calling is all messed up on this line as well, as the route was majorly restructured (but still in the old format in Clever Devices) calling stops that aren't getting served and not displaying ones that are. Again, a PAT problem, not a Clever Devices one.
I think PAT didn't realize how much time, money and man-power these systems need to function correctly. Once they found out, they scrapped the idea for future orders.
Go to Transitalk.org on the MCI Coach #421 i beleave but i am not sure
BM15 - ocean pkwy and av Z
Anybody know about this route plese post
That route was originally operated by MetroApple Express in the late80's/early 90's.I guess it was originally it was suppose to be picked up by Command but it didn't.(I am doing this purely on speculation can any body else back this up).MetroApple also had 2 other route the BM10 and the BM11.
I was totally shocked to see 3902 not only pulled from retirement, but actually in service by the time I reported at 4:00pm in Fresh Pond. It seems during the last two days I was off somebody made the decision to repair the bus and put it in service. I never knew exactly what was wrong with it. The yard dispatcher I relieved assigned it to somebody this afternoon about 3:50pm. The operator however did not keep the bus for his second half and pulled it in around 6:00pm. (I wonder why?) I told my personal shifter to fuel and park the bus as I knew I wouldn't be sending it out anymore for the rest of the day. The bus is still sporting the Kingsbridge logo on the rear left porkchop panel, but has a QV logo on the right front panel. I'm still scratching my head over the choice to bring this bus back into service.
BIG AL
Man, I like the job that you have, you can just keep whatever bus in the depot that you want, LOL.
Big Al, we all are scratching out heads at this surprising move. Haa that's funny, 3902 has a QV on one side and a KB sticker on the other ;-). Lets see DaRidgewood's response when he sees this.....
Please, whatever you do, don't put it on the B13, or the Q55. Put it on the B57.
The TA hates Fresh Pond, they love torturing us in Ridgewood/Bushwick.
A friend of mine happened to be walking near the depot when the convoy of those new arrivals showed up a couple of weks ago. He said that 3902 was spewing heavy black smoke out of the exhaust pipe. I also heard (perhaps on BusTalk, perhaps in the neighborhood) that 3951 also would not see service. In actuality, I saw it this morning in service on the B57.
It was on the B57? I hope it gets tortured on Flushing Av., that way it won't last too long.
Fresh Pond is terrible, the amount of crap we have to suffer with is ridiculous. The 9100's are the only thing the keep it standing.
Man, I can't wait for Maspeth depot, because we're going to have the newest buses compared to everyone else.
My thoughts as well! I figured if 3951 spends any significant time on the B57 (as well as 3902 and the other retirments-in-waiting) they won't be around for very long! I am still waiting for a re-construction of Flushing Ave. That road kills the suspensions of the buses. I heard a few years ago that once the city finished Manhattan Ave., the next project would be Flushing Ave. Manhattan Ave. has been completed and I am still waiting for them to start. I guess city budget problems have out off the project for awhile.
And I remember that ONE time I photographed that bus on the Bx55 one day last year...
Carlton
I remember photgraphing 3951's rear on the Q46 at Union and Utopia about 2 years ago. I did get 3902 on the Q46 as well but it did not come out well-too far.
Anybody who wants to see the pic email me and place in the subject line MTA 3951 and I'll be happy to send it to you.
#3951 Q46
Flushing Av. is not as bad as it use to be though. I remember back in the 1990's where you could still see the cobblestone under the pavement! And when you were riding the buses over that, you could feel that heavy shaking the really messes up suspensions! @_@
Imagine putting the 3997 over Flushing Av. when it was like that, heh heh heh.
3951 was pulled out of the burial sight a couple of days ago and went into service for the first time either yesterday or today. I heard the engine was shot. No clue how or why they got it road worthy again since Fresh Pond has plenty of buses right now. Unlike 3902, they installed the Fresh Pond logos on it.
A glitter of good news. Don't expect to see these buses running for too long. When the Gleason buses start coming over to F.P., the 10 Mabstoa transferees will be the first to get the boot.
BIG AL
Big Al, would that be followed by the remaining GMCs from ENY and QV, (3918, 3986, 3987, 3995, and 3997)? I imagine some more of the 4600s and 4700s will also go once the Orion 07.501 buses finally come in.
dont hold your breath. there is still no sign of any orion 7 buses on the property.
Well actually some of the 1988 TMC's are getting new license plates so some of them may be going nowhere for now.
3962 has a brand new license plate! This is getting too good!!!
LMAO!
#3962 B36
ah, but there is still no word when it will happen and what buses from JG will be transferred to either FP or UP. Its all a guessing game.
B1-#9338-NOVABUS
b64-#7519-Remanufactured RTS
Is it just me, or do buses seem to resurrect from the scrap heap. Was 3987 once scrap before being reactivated? And were any other of those 39xx buses?
6 New Galleries and over 160 Megs of Photos. (Washington DC Fans, this is the one for you)
Apologize for the LOOOOOOONG Delay, we were dealing with server issues which did put a constraint on our timeliness on completing the update
Cruise on over to www.transitalk.org and enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Great pics!!! I love seeing the old AM General ones in the WMATA site. Bringing back some good memories!!!!
There has been some discuession about what lines should be in what depot. Here is my opinion on what routes should be in what depots.
The guidelines i used are as follows:
1-Dead head time from depot to bus line terminal
2-Swing location
3-Route length
4-Route ridership patterns
5-Route destinations
These specifications were used only. I did not take in the size of each depot or equipent that is used.
I-ROUTES THAT CAN NOT BE CHANGED
EAST NEW YORK-B12,B14,B15,B20(Bway ENY to GMF part),Q24,Q56,B60,B83
JACKIE GLEASON-B16,B23,B35,B37,B51,B63,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B31,B41,B44,B46,
ULMER PARK-B1,B3,B4,B6,X28,X29,B36,B64,B74
FRESH POND-B13,B20(Fresh Pond to GMF),B24,B26,B38,B52,B54,Q55,B57,Q58,Q59
II-ROUTES THAT ARE OK IN THEIR CURRENT DEPOT BUT CAN BE MOVED TO OTHER DEPOTS
EAST NEW YORK-B45(CAN BE IN GLEASON)
JACKIE GLEASON-B8(CAN BE IN ULMER PARK OR ENY),B9(CAN BE IN ULMER PARK OR FLATBUSH)B11(CAN BE IN FLATBUSH),B43(CAN BE IN ENY),B65(CAN BE IN ENY),B68(CAN BE IN ULMER PARK)
FLATBUSH-B47(CAN BE IN ENY)
ULMER PARK-X27(CAN BE IN GLEASON)
FRESH POND-B48(CAN BE IN GLEASON)
III-ROUTES THAT ARE IN THE WRONG DEPOT
EAST NEW YORK-B7(SHOULD BE IN FLATBUSH BECAUSE OF THE FLATBUSH AVE/CONEY ISLAND AVE PART),B17(SHOULD BE IN FLAT.),B42(SHOULD BE IN FLATBUSH),B82(SHOULD BE IN ULMER PARK)
GLEASON-None
FLATBUSH-None
ULMER PARK-None
FRESH POND-None
IV-ROUTES THAT ARE JUST A PLAIN PROBLEM
JACKIE GLEASON-B61
Thats my opinion.
Any commnets
Thank You
Where do you think the B-49 should be? Should it stay at Flatbush?
The B65 stays with Gleason!!! I would like the B43 to stay at Gleason, but it's closer to FP. The B11 stays with Gleason, because it's closer to Gleason. The B45 can stay at ENY.
Sorry it will be more cost efficent to operate the B-65 from East New York than Gleason.
Shorter dead head time
Easier to swing and shorter distance required.
The B-11 could operate from either Gleason or Flatbush.
The B-43 should be in East New York until Maspeth opens.
Thank You
I forgot, when was the B43 was moved out of ENY? I think the B65 should be a ENY route, all buses have to do is run down St Marks Av and turn on ENY Av to the depot.
True, but ENY does not have enough room. Likewise, however, a swap could be done and the B65 is ENY and the B45 in JG. Given the stock of buses in ENY, riders may not notice the difference.
I disagree with all! The B65 is better off at Gleason, and plus ENY is a busy depot and deals with heavy crowd lines, Gleason is just a better deal with the B65, The B45 and B65 pratically runs on the same route just on different routes, so it wouldn't make any sense changing them.
The primary direction of riding on the B65 is westbound in the morning and eastbound in the afternoon. Since Gleason is at the west end of the route (and then some distance southward), East New York is a better place for the route. If not for capacity constraints, it would probably be there now.
David
I think UP should trade the X27/37 to JG and give UP the B9, B68 which would fav UP anyway sent the 84xx/85xx to UP for the B9 they is a yard across the steet from UP that 4 cars which u can Convet that 4 the stoage of MCI 4 the X27/37 for JG which is being covented ass we all ready know
Just Something on my mind
7513 - B6 - LTD
8904 - B25 - LED Tail Lamps
9077 - B6 - LTD
sorry about A&$ i ment as
The deadhead for the B9 (via Bay Parkway) would be too far, though. It really should be in FB, unless the really heavy route traffic is in Bay Ridge.
The B-9 was in Ulmer Park from 1950 to 1987 and it deadheaded all of that time via Bay Parkway,Stillwell Ave,25th Avenue.
Drivers were given 10 minuates dead head time
Thank You
Well The Surface Dept. has their reasons, maybe I can get my mom who works on the B65 at JG to see why was the B65 put at JG Depot, instead of ENY.
I'm back from my brief hiatus ;-).
I agree with you, the 65 is FAR closer to ENY than JG and as you said if it weren't for capacity limits it would probably be there right now.
The B8 used RTS buses from UP before the switch to JG or ENY depot last year. I do think the B8 should originate from ENY depot.
While the B-8 basically has the same dead head time from either Ulmer Park or East New York it should be in Ulmer Park because of the part of the route between the VA Hosp and 95th St/4th Ave. To operate it from ENY will require additonal service at the wrong end of the line in order to begin service from 95th St in the morning and to end service to 95th St at the end of the day. If the B-8 is operated from Ulmer Park it will be easier to serve the VA/95th St part
Thank You
What happened was the B8 was in UP, but when the B82 was created, the B8 became a split with UP and ENY. Then in 1999, the B8 and B82 were transferred exclusively to ENY, and then last September, the B8 went to JG. Both routes belong in UP (or at least as splits w/ENY), however. That B8 is a headache worse than the B61 (even post-Maspeth). Those routes were worse headaches than the now-defunct B62.
The B-8 was in Ulmer Park from 1950 to the late 1990's. When the B-8 was extended to Brookdale Hospital it was found that the route can be operated from East New York.
First the route was split between Ulmer Park and East New York and later was moved completely to East New York.
It was moved to Gleason last September because East New York lost its permit to close Broadway between Jamaica Ave and Van Sindren Ave and the TA could no longer park buses their.
Thank You
B43 was originally an ENY route so that won't be too bad but Fresh Pond or the future Maspeth would be a better spot. Actually the B4 was in Jackie Gleason for a while but went back to UP.
If you don't mind Barry, I'd like to see what combos is possible.
Routes that cannot be changed:
ENY:B12,14,15,25,42,45,60,83,Q24,56
JG:B9,11,16,23,35,37,51,61,63,67,69,70,71,75,77
FB:B2,31,41,44,46,49
UP:B1,3,6,36,64,74,X28,29
FP:B13,20,24,26,38,52,54,57,Q54,55,58,59
Routes that are fine in current depot but can be changed:
ENY:B17[switch with B47]
JG:B8[can be in UP],B43[can be in FP or ENY],B65[can be in ENY],B68[switch with X27]
FB:B47[switch with B17]
UP:B4[can be in JG], X27[switch with B68]
FP:B39[can be in FB as a extended B46],B48[can be in JG]
Routes in the WRONG depot IMO:
ENY:B7[should go back to FB],B82[should be back in UP, this route was just a mistake]
JG:none
FB:none
UP:none
FP:none
To operate the B-4 in Gleason will greatly increase its operating costs as follows
1-Long dead head time- In Ulmer Park 3 to 5 blocks,In Gleason it is almost 2 miles(39 blocks)
2-Sepearte swing location will be required. In Ulmer Park the B-4 swings at the same location of the B-1
3-Ridership on the B-4 is heavier at its eastern end and that end has more service. To operate from Gleason will have additional service required at its western end in order to keep the current service at the eastern end.
BTW when the x-27 was first sent to Ulmer Park the B-4 went to Gleason. The B-4 became so bad a route it was switched back one year later.
The B-17 has a shorter dead head time from Flatbush than East New York. It is approx. 15 minuates to Flatbush 20 to 25 to East New York.
Thank You
I agree, the B4 was BAD when JG had it & was a huge mistake so ignore what I said on that. I know that's why switching the B17 with the B47 would make sense.
Please let me make it clear that these ideals are mine and mine alone. I have no idea if the TA has any plans at this time to switch any routes at all
In regards to the B-17 it should be in Flatbush because its a shorter run on and run off than what it has now in East New York.
The B-47 while it is less expensive to operate from Flatbush because of the short dead head time could be run from East New York because buses could operate to either end of the route from Ralph/St John which means you will need less service at the Kings Plaza when AM runs start to pull out . Currently B-47 has to start at Kings Plaza before getting To Woodhall Hospital.
The B-17 needs to pull out and pull in from an end thats why it will be better to operate the B-17 from Flatbush
Thank You
I know Barry, I know your post is not connected to the TA.
I know the 17 is shorter from Canarsie to FB depot than ENY so that is more sensible however it is working fine at ENY at the moment.
As for the B47 if it starts from Woodhull, its nearer to ENY. If it starts from Kings Plaza [which as you stated currently does], then its nearer to FB so it could go anyway.
When I was living in Crown Heights, Ive seen B17s deadhead to the Eastern Pkwy/Utica Avenue station from ENY depot. Of course deadheading via Eastern Pkwy. Now that I live in ENY, Ive seen the B17 deadhead along Pennsylvania and Flatlands Ave to get to Canarsie. My next door neigbor works at ENY depot and used to drive the B17. Ill try to get some info from him.
Da Beastmaster
The B4 pulls out to/pulls in from the ends of the route, not the middle (it used to be the middle, but not anymore). Toward the end of the B4's time in Gleason, the relief point was changed to 86th Street & Stillwell Avenue (travel via West End Line). Nevertheless, the route costs less to operate in Ulmer Park than in Gleason because the pullout/pullin time and the travel time ARE less in Ulmer Park. As for ridership, it's a pretty light route and isn't much heavier in one direction than the other.
David
David,
I was not aware of the B-4 change in pull outs and pull ins. But from looking at the schedule service seems to start and end at the east end of the route.
Basically even with Maspeth opening in 2005 and the relocation of the CMF from East New York to Maspeth which will allow for additional storage at East New York or even the creation of a 2nd depot in the East New York building (something i understand the TA is considering because they may want to avoid a super large East New York Depot) and with the possibility of the TA taking over the Command facility storage in south Brooklyn is still going to be a problem for the Brooklyn Division especially if the TA decicdes to put artics in Flatbush.
A new depot should be considered in either of the following locations
1-Flatbush Ave near the Belt Parkway as an annex to Flatbush Depot
2- In the industrial area near the Coney Island Yard complex as an Ulmer Park annex or as a new depot
Thats my opinion
Thank You
"I was not aware of the B-4 change in pull outs and pull ins. But from looking at the schedule service seems to start and end at the east end of the route."
Look again. It pulls out to and in from both ends of the route, and reliefs are midline at 86th & Stillwell.
As to the rest of it, since we're fantasizing anyway I figured I wouldn't be constrained by capacity issues.
David
David,
What about the possibility if and when all the private companies are taken over of turning the Command facility into a Maintance Facility for the DOB.
With the approx 1200 buses that will be added will 2 Centeral Maintance Facilities be enough for the TA's needs.
Since the Command facility is located near the Brooklyn/Queens border it will make sense and it could handle Jamaica Depot,the Green Line Depot and the Jamaica Bus Depot and East New York when CMF relocates to Maspeth.
To operate the Command facility as a Bus Depot will be hard since everything will basically have to pull out and in because of the lack of bus seervice there now, Since the B-13 is the only line serving the depot and its service frequency is not as good as other lines it may be benefical to the TA to consider it.
I would like your opinion
Thank You
Frankly, I haven't really thought about it. Whatever happens, will happen.
David
[To operate the Command facility as a Bus Depot will be hard since everything will basically have to pull out and in....]
That shouldn't be an issue. The same already happens at Queens Village - only the Q36 has road reliefs, while everything else pulls in/out.
Depending on the ridership patterns, it could make sense to put some or all of the Q24, Q54, Q56 in Jamaica, and some or all of the Q58 in Casey Stengel (school trips notwithstanding).
Plus, if Transit takes over the DOT routes and city-owned garages, then I would reassign routes as follows:
"Command": B6 B13 B14 B20 B15 B82 B103 BM2 BQM1 (maybe BM1)
Flatbush: B100
East NY: B65 (Gleason is too far from the wrong end)
Ulmer Park: BM3 BM4 (maybe BM1)
B13 in Command is stupid! FP is the best owner for it, because it passes right in front of the entrance of FP depot. Also it's easy for switching drivers.
[B13 in Command is stupid! FP is the best owner for it, because it passes right in front of the entrance of FP depot. Also it's easy for switching drivers.]
IIRC, the B13 also passes right in front of the Command facility, so reliefs aren't an issue. Plus, with the depot near the terminal, there'd be no need for silly short trips to get the bus into place.
BTW, no depot "owns" its routes. NYCDOT owns the franchises; NYC Transit merely operates them, and has the right to base them at whichever depot(s) best meet the route's needs.
Yeah, but your making it sound like Fresh Pond actually needs to get rid of the B13(which they don't). Fresh Pond has handle all of their routes just fine! It doesn't need help from Command. Please stop thinking that Fresh Pond needs help with its routes, because they don't. When Maspeth Depot opens, then we can talk about FP losing some of its routes. Other than that, it isn't going to happen!!!
The B-49 goes to Part IV-Routes that are just a problem
Flatbush-B-49
Sorry
On weekdays, anyway, the thrust of the B49 is southbound (toward Kingsborough College) in the morning and northbound in the afternoon. Given the location of the northern and southern terminals, it could feasibly run out of any Brooklyn Division depot except Fresh Pond!
David
While the B-3's terminal is outside Ulmer Park Depot (very efficient), it should be noted that the ridership pattern is primarily westbound in the morning (toward Ulmer Park) and eastbound in the evening (away from Ulmer Park). It may very well be more efficient to run the route out of Flatbush Depot (it ran out of Flatbush years ago, before it was extended to end outside Ulmer Park Depot).
David
David,
I agree with you 100%. I remember when the B-3 was in Flatbush the last time from July 1960 to October 1978.
But with the storage problem at Flatbush i really doubt that the B-3 can be moved there.
Thank You
True it might be more efficient to run the B3 out of FB *BUT* you would probably have to transfer 2 routes out of FB [or it could become a split]; the B47 and B49 would probably have to be shipped out to make that possible and I think it will backfire if that was done.
I made a post earlier about this. Even though ENY has the best fleet among the RTS depots, it still beats me about why the B7 went to ENY. The B82 was good as a split, and should have been kept that way.
How about B61 being spilt between JG and FP(due to the part of the route between LIC and downtown Brooklyn).
Took the 38 today, hopefully will be back on the 37 tomorrow.
On the Metro, despite going almost 2 hours later than I normally do, got the same operator as far as Grosvenor (Rohr 1256). Got off there to wait for the next train, Breda 4005, which I took to White Flint. Interestingly enough, 4005 was the train I photographed at Judicuary Square on Saturday night:
Didn't see much of interest at White Flint. C8 stop for eastbound buses is to the left when you exit the Metro, westbound is across the street. I believe this should have been the reroute:
From College Park
Normal routing to Nicholson and Nebel
R on Nebel
L on Marinelli
Layover at White Flint Mall shuttle stop
L on Rockville Pike
L on Nicholson
Resume normal routing
Saw 9710 going to Montgomery Division. Next time I do this I am going to go to White Flint earlier. I waited around at Friendship Heights trying to get a shot of a C40 on the 30, but when the 30 came that I thought would be a C40, turns out to be operated by Orion V 2209 from Western! Talk about a waste of 7 minutes!
Other observations:
Saw a Metro-E on the B11. Can't remember what number but it was the first time I had seen that.
Saw Flxible Metro-D 5703 going north on 355 at Montrose. Couldn't see what route it was on, if any. It could have been deadheading.
Saw 5724 on the 38, stuck in traffic on Montrose Road (in a jam that went from 270 to 355, needless to say, that bus was very late!) with the Conrad Johnson banner. Half the destination sign on that bus still doesnt work, so it only says 38 WHEA or roughly that.
Saw what may have been 5700 on the 47. We got to Montrose and Seven Locks about two minutes after it was due to pass, but as we turned onto Seven Locks, I could see a bus coming south. If it was a Metro-D, which it appeared to be, it was running 5700's block.
Finally, I rode 5606 on the 38. Felt like a Metrobus considering how much the seats shook and the bus vibrated as we went along. Some stops were merely snowbanks and some walks have not been shoveled.
Over the past two monthes, I have received COUNTLESS emails from various people I do not know that has included information about directions to Chelsea Pier Depot. I have not forwarded or sent out any of these suspicious emails because I do not care whatsoever about this 'Chelsea Pier Depot'. Today, however, I have recieved the following email apparently from the webmaster at nyct.com
A message entitled CHELSEA PIER DEPOT was received from
blingbling4305@hotmail.com addressed to asdavis@nyct.com
.
The message was found to contain a Virus and has been deleted.
If you require further information please contact your system administrator.
Thank you postmaster@nyct.com.
I find this VERY unusual knowing that I have NOT forwarded ANY of these emails before. Unfortunately, i HAVE opened one of these emails before just out of curiosity. Have anybody else gotten any of these suspicious emails before? Is there a hidden virus in my computer??
Yes I get them all the time. They are annoying.
Troy
I get them quite a bit. But the best one I got was "From myself." Someone has been using the @transitalk.org e-mail address to send out E-mails and one day I got one from tlogan@transitalk.org, which I automatically knew what it was, but I had to laugh because it was supposed to be from me LOL! :)
Again warning, if anyone recieved a e-mail from a @transitalk.org name, delete it, you can ONLY e-mail to a @transitalk.org name NOT from.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I did to, from time to time I get emails from mholmes@transitalk.org, And I thought it was a download for some transit stuff, so when I downloaded it, my Norton AntiVirus 2002 immediately informed me that it has detected a virus on my PC, Norton is on Stand-By is engaged everytime my PC is on. Another thing you should look out for is if you have High Speed Broadband service(I have AOL DSL Broadband), and you don't have a firewall, that can be fatal for your PC.
Just use common sense. I do have a firewall but that won't stop everything. If the file or title looks suspicious, don't open it. E-mail the sendee and see if they sent something to you. And finally, keep your definitions updated and scan your computer weekly for viruses. Norton can be set to do both those automatically.
Actually, that's not true. Anyone can send out an email with any address in the From line. I send out email with an email.com address but I send it through a server that's running on my own machine or occasionally from my shell account (plover.net).
One of the common viruses these days sends out mail under other peoples' addresses. If somebody's stored your transitalk.org address in his address book, a virus might pull up that address and use it in the From field.
A few months ago, GP38 Chris emailed me to inform me that he had just gotten a virus in my name. As I was writing a response, I got a virus in his name! Of course, neither of us sent either one. I also once got a virus supposedly from SelkirkTMO, the person on this board least likely to send anyone a virus (I don't think he's dishonest enough to drum up business by sending out viruses himself -- and if he is, he's certainly not stupid enough to do it in his own name).
There's one easy way to guarantee immunity from email viruses: use an email client that won't do anything more than show the text of an email. Some of the popular email clients these days (Outlook Express, most notably) will gladly go ahead and run scripts without any warning -- and by doing so they effectively give anyone the power to do all sorts of stuff that you wouldn't want done simply by sending you an email and waiting for you to open it. That's physically impossible in an email client that is incapable of running email as a program.
Exactly, and a few months ago it must have been a sub(bus)talker that was infected, because everyone was getting weird messages, supposedly from people they knew or emailed with, or other subtalkers. Everytime the person who had the virus pulled up sub/bustalk, all our email addresses would be read by the virus on his computer, and would send these out to "reproduce" itsef. It wasn't really the person who it said it was from, nor was it the person who had the virus knowingly sending these out.
My first reaction was to open what I thought was "David's" email, because we do email each other occasionally, but instantly my anti-virus picked it up, and of course I deleted it. I knew David wouldn't be sending out viruses, but I thought he may have a virus he didn't know about. That's when I learned about this particular virus. I have gotten many virus emails from various sub-bustalkers a few months ago(including SelkirkTMO, transitalk, Wmataomgh, etc), and could tell by the subject line that they weren't really sending them, because they didn't make sense, and I knew they were a virus before the ant-virus program even noticed.
MAN! You guy's have bad luck. I never had got a E-Mail with a Virus ever
This may or may not be evidence of a virus on your system.
It could well be evidence of a virus on somebody else's system that's sending itself out under your address.
I'm afraid there's nothing you can do about it. I've had worse: lately, a lot of spam has gone out under my address. (I know. I've been getting all the bounces.) That puts my email address in jeopardy -- if the administrator assumes I'm the one who's been sending out the spam, my account could be yanked for TOS violation. Fortunately, it appears that he's smart enough not to make that sort of assumption (though I'm surprised he hasn't even asked me yet).
There are also programs that are known as e-mail blasters that automatically spoof the sending address of the person sending the spam out so it's more difficult to track them down. In dealing with several sites I maintain, I get many e-mails supposantly sent out by me or someone else on the sites that have been bounced and I have checked with the site host on this issue (to make sure someone didn't break into the mail server). I was then told of the e-mail blaster programs that can do this. Some people do utilize these types of programs under the free e-mail sites and hijacked AOL accounts as well to purposely send out viruses as well as spam.
Not much can be done even if you can track down the ISP account it was sent from through the header files as some ISPs and on-line free e-mail account providers won't do anything to stop them (AOL, Yahoo and MSN are the worst for allowing this practice to continue).
It's difficult to really know for sure if this is the cause, if a virus on infected PC's are the cause or there is something else going on in regards to the e-mail in question.
Ah, thanks for all the replies, I ran a complete system scan with Norton AntiVirus and the scan shows that there is suspicious files on my system, that oughta bring me a peace of mind for a while.
100 is back from the paint shop and looks excellent. Its in the original RTA scheme and the decals came in yesterday. I dont know how to post pictures here so if someone would like to post a few of them..... email me directly and I will email them to you to post.
What city is this bus from?
JD
This bus was originally Janesville Transit Service #416, repainted as Riverside Transit Agency (ca) #100
Today I decided to do a little trip. I started by taking the QM24, the 8th Av. one, and I got Orion #3033. MCI #1979, you keep saying the Triboro Orions are dirty, but this one wasn't. It was in good shape, and it was a pretty smooth ride. As the bus got to 34th St., I think I saw HP's 3469, it had a blue wrap ad in the back. Can anyone comfirm this. I got off at 7th Av. and 57th St.. I saw 126St's 7047, and it had the destination sign of a 86'RTS, that's sad. I walked up to Central Park South hoping to get the 4145 on the M5, but no luck. The 4483 came, but I didn't want to take that crap! What route does 4145 usually appear? I also wanted one of the Orion6's, but I ended up taking MCH's 234 on the M7. This bus(repowered) was pretty slow, but not too bad. Unlike the Stengal Orions, this one had 5 seats at the back(like JG's Orions). Are all the Orion's at MCH like this? Then I got off at Union Square and took the R143 L-Train. I get off at Myrtle, and see FP's 9169 saying M14D Lower East Side. LOL! What a coincidence I saw HP's 8198 on the M14 when I was at Union Square! And I also seen the 4380 with the damn black thing in the back. I'm sorry but the "pork chop" is a cheap name, so I'll stick with my name.
Finally I take the 9152 on the Q55, and guess what? The Q55 had all Novas! I wish it was like this all the time. Big Al, can you make my B13 9100 exclusive? 4890 shouldn't have been on it. I still haven't seen the 4552, what route is it on? Please send it to the B57, I know it will enjoy going over a nice street called Flushing Av.(heh heh heh).
I'll try my luck next time to get the 4145.
Oh, I forgot to post my trip summary:
QM24- CNG Orion5 #3033
M7- Orion #234
R143 L-Train #8136
Q55- RTS #9152
Hey, I live in that neighborhood; not to far from the last stop on the B26. You didn't happen to see any Cummins M11 Novas running anywhere, did ya?
The Cummins M11 Novas(9140-9149)? I've seen and been on them many, many, times. I've rode on all ten of them, but my favorite is 9143. This is the only thing that makes FP unique, its the only depot to have these Novas.
My favorite Cummins bus was 9141.
#9141 Q58
I had to take a trip into Manhattan as well today. Started off with GBL 1162 and took to the last stop. Crossed 2nd Ave and walked to 61 St to wait for the M15 Local because I was going to East 44 St to try and find a job b/c I was recently laid off. All were coming in were LIMITEDS: 5029 9207 8174. I was wishing an Artic would show up but it never did. Anyways I had repowered junk 8193 which did not go above 10mph for the entire ride. Repowered garbage 8172 was right in front of us and 9045 was behind us. As I got off I saw 142 on the M27 and 9344 on the X92.
I did see an Artic on the M102 at 10am going up 3 Ave however I did not catch a number.
The rest of the day I rode the subway. Perhaps I will place that on SubTalk and not here.
#8193 M15
#1162 Q60
I did not say that the Triboro Onions are dirty. I was saying that the Triboro Onions are in such horrid condition. They have gray panels all over the place. I'm not also saying that ALL of the Onions are horrible. Most are. I remember riding 3033 but on the Q18 and it was a pretty good bus. 3049 is another bus that comes to mind that is good. Another is 3018 but it does look pretty bad.
3469 I believe still has the blue wrap on it. I know 3474 does because I have a pic of it as proof.
3906 3965 4145 4461 4483 4486 6350-6353 and 6359 are usually seen either on the M2 M3 M4 or M5 on a regular basis. You can still catch them. I remember riding and getting a pic of 4145 on the M4. If you would like to see it, email me and place in the subject line MTA 4145.
As far as the Onions are concerned, 173-290, 295-316 have 5 seats in the rear. 101-172 have 5 seats as well. Most have Coach seats but a few do not. 146 is the 1st that comes to my mind.
291-294 has seating like the 400-680 series.
I believe 7048-7049 have the 1986 RTS Signs in them as well.
I remember I saw 8606 on 42 St with Q5 Merrick signs on it.
1st time I saw 8198 was on the Q32.
4552 could perhaps be on the Q58/Q59? Boy would that be a trip.
That was just like last week when I saw ALL NOVAS on the B24.
Hope this helps you out.
#3469 Q32
#6353 M2
#4145 M4
#3018 Q53
Forgive me for asking, but what's so special about 4145?
4145 is a former Fresh Pond bus.
Ah. Should have realized that given the poster. Thanks.
Because it was a Fresh Pond Bus, and I'm a Fresh Pond person.
No, this is not a rant about bad service. I realize that there are many bus routes I have never ridden, so today I looked at the Queens bus map posted in Jamaica LIRR waiting room, and I found again there the neat selection of Green Bus Lines timetables, Q 6, 8, 9, 41, and 60. (No TA timetables.) When a Q41 arrived, I climbed aboard and discovered that the route demands skillful, cautious driving. Of course, the driver did it well, getting through tight spots like 94th Avenue (next to Airtrain) and making those turns from 130th Street to 128th Street to 127th Street, with parked cars and ice piles left and right. There's much on-and-off business, and the driver treated riders with courteous patience. Ideal route: rest rooms at start (library), LIRR, and (terminus) McDonald's. I then walked to the Howard Beach A station and found patrons confused by the single-track shuttle, Far Rock to Rockaway Blvd. We had ten R-32's on that. I presume that the Q41 was one of those "original" 1920's bus lines, not a replacement for a streetcar. Am I right? Peace. Joe
My Aunt lives near the corner of 127 St and 103 Ave. She's the 2nd house on the N/W Corner and is the house with 2 Satalite Dishes on the house.
Most of the Green Bus network was bus from the very start - not streetcar replacements. One exception is the Q60 Queens Blvd., which was a trolley until 1937 and then became a bus (not Green originally, which did not take over that route till about 1943 or so).
I think the Rockaway line (Q22) used to be trolley.
Probably true. Before the 1930's there was a trolley company called Ocean Electric Railway that ran the length of the Rockaway Peninsula from Far Rockaway to Neponsit. It used a combination of street rails and the old LIRR tracks (today's subway route) which in those days also ran at grade on private right of way. The cars were equipped with poles for street running and third rail shoes for use on the LIRR tracks.
The last time I was in Rock Pk,I didn't know that the Q35 wasn't running along Newport Av untill I decided to walk up to where the Q22 is and lo and behold,the Q35 was running with the Q22 from Rock Pk- B169St. Anyone know why?Is it still going on?This happened earlier this month BTW.
That's because of a major construction project along most of Newport Avenue, and boy is it a mess. Due to be completed several months from now.
Newport Avenue at B 128 thru B 132 Streets where a plane went down in november 2001?
No, has nothing to do with that. The construction starts at B. 116th St. and ends somewhere around B. 129th or 130th Sts.
I remember last summer there were announcements on the Green Buses that the Q35 was changing their route in the Rockaways because of construction work. I never take the bus so I never read it all the way thru.
Tuesday morning, at about 8:40, I noticed a New Flyer artic operating SB on the M102 at Lexington Ave. and 42nd St. Later on after my business meeting concluded (about 10:30) I walked back to the corner and did not see any other artics on the M101/102/103. Anyone know what's going on - a test run or is the M101/102/103 series being re-equipped with artics? Thanks in advance to anyone who answers.
M102 is operated out of WESTSIDE(or Quill if you like-same depot)-this depot operates articulated buses on the M23,M79,M86 and have been running them on the M102 for some time.
Thanks. About how many artics are assigned to the M102?
[About how many artics are assigned to the M102?]
I don't know the precise answer, but according to the latest UTC roster, 88 artics are now at Quill, including 14 new ones (5510 and higher) that arrived in the past month or so. I suspect that, with the increase in the number of artics at Quill, more are showing up on the M102 than in the past.
Well, it depends on the day, but I have seen, so far, at least 2-5, possibly 6 artics on the M102 on any given day.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
I was in Manhattan today, and I saw an Artic on the M102 when riding the QM24 on 34th St., but I didn't get the number of it.
I was in NYC last Friday, and saw numerous artics on the M102. Most were the new 5500's, but I did see at least one of the 1000-series buses on this line also.
I'll try to post some other observations from my trip soon - been fighting a stomach virus since the weekend, and am only beginning to feel normal today.
Jim D.
Hey Jim:
If that's the famous stomach virus that's going around, I really hope you fell better by now. My son's wife had it for 2 days, and it "ain't" fun.
Chuck Greene
Today 2/26 15 artics were assigned to the route, yesterday their were 11. Thats about the daily average. Also artics are regularly assigned on weekends also.
15????????????? Really????
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
I have noticed alot of artics on this route to. But 15 didnt know all about that.Is this the moring and PM combine?
AMI
This is between 3Pm to 7 Pm which is peak rotation. At this time their are 22 buses assigned to the entire route, after 7 pm many start pulling in. On Thursday I had 16 artics and Friday dropped down to 14.
Thats good for M102 riders. Any clue as to when 126 and KB will finish their artic order. has there been any word of any new artics coming over to west farms or Gunhill.
AMI
Ive always wondered the scedules that u recieve that tells you when your bus will show up is accurate. Tomorrow, im going to test it. Those who know me, know what line i normally take to work. This will be the line i will test. Since im out there early in the morning, it shouldnt be a problem. Let's see how it goes. I'll post my trip tomorrow.
Don;t bother. In fact, on all of those tables, it specifically states that they are not accurate, but more like generalizations. I find it funny to find people who think those times are actually reliable...
I don't know. One of the last times I was in NYC, I actually carried timetables with me, and found that the bus and subway lines do run largely on-time. Of course, when they run every 2-3 minutes, this doesn't mean a whole lot, but I tried it on the M86 in the evening and found buses running on-time to the minute.
Remember, MTA must make some attempt at scheduling trips. That's how they build runs and assign work. It's worth their while to try and produce accurate timetables. They're not fooling anyone by doing otherwise.
Most systems include a blurb somewhere on their timetables that say something to the effect of "times are apporximate" but most PAT buses are generally on schedule or within 10 minutes of where they are supposed to be.
A big problem at PAT is actually buses that are hot, especially on the outbound at the later points.
It is true that many large systems are frequently not able to keep the times they print, but most small cities and many larger (but not NYC large) type cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh are able to keep the trips pretty darn close to the schedule. I always rely on my PAT schedules and rarely have a problem with extremely late or no-show trips.
I suppose so, but the matter of the fact is that those things you mentioned were based on what YOU encountered. What accounts for the weather? Traffic? Other possible circumstances? I don't think all of the B/O's synchronize their watches or have complex computer systems on their buses. You'd have to go around the city and ask as many people as you can what their experiences were. Accurate for you doesn't mean accurate for them.
As I posted on SubTalk (yeah yeah I know)...
I was in Jackie Gleason Depot today and saw 8565 inside the depot. Last week somebody here mentioned seeing it in Ulmer Park, whereas it's been assigned to Gleason since it was new. Someone (Big Al?) responded that it was probably at Ulmer Park because it had broken down somewhere. My guess is that was the case.
David
It was at Ulmer Park for Repairs.
I saw 8565 running on the B67 just the other day.
Well it looks like the death of the trackless trolley system at SEPTA is just around the corner. This week, the 29-Tasker/Morris Crosstown received a new routing (due to redevelopment of the Tasker Homes projects) and an extension (over to the Pier 70 Shopping Center), and both will make it hard to restore trackless trolleys four years from now. In addition, the 79-Snyder Ave doesn't run the trolleys on weekends, substituing NABI's and Flyers on the line to make it wheelchair accesible, and the continuing shutdown of the 59, 66, and 75 in the Northeast due to the Frankford Terminal and depot construction. The remaining 66 AM Generals are currently sitting at the Southern Depot, with little future in them if SEPTA has its way. It seems that SEPTA management will try to stealthily de-wire the entire system as a cost cutting measure, and to reduce public outcry, try to tack on "improvements" like the one instituted on the 29 line. Perhaps the much-talked about 66 extension to Franklin Mills will be the catalyst to kill that line, the dearth or riders on the west end of the 75 (due to all of the now-gone sunken homes), will dieselize the line, and maybe they will promise to buy more of those hybrid buses to get rid of the rest of the routes (59 and 79). This death was foretold in the infamous Pheonix Management report back in the 90's, and SEPTA is slowly and surely trying to finagle around the City Of Philadelphia, (which owns the 59 and 66 lines- they were converted from streetcar to trackless trolley routes with city money), and try to do some sort of "add on" these routes in order to pull the plug on these lines for good. The price of a new Trackless Trolley would cost about 600 thousand each, you could get two diesel buses for the price of one TC, and the extra cost of maintaing the overhead is a drag on a budget that has to scrimp, save, and re-allocate money to ill-advised projects that pleases the suburban majority that sits on the board (Schuylkill Valley Metro- huge boondoggle for the suburbs, while the city gets ZILCH !)
Now what can we do about this? Maybe we could try to expose this massacre to the media, and maybe we could get some attention to this plight, (if we could get past the rah-rah on the asinine war drum beating), or we could take action to force SEPTA to state their intentions loud and clear. All we want is some honesty here, not stealth and behind-the back decision making.
Does any bus and/or Trackless Trolley fan agree with me?
I have always thought Trackless trolleys were one of the best vehicles ever. They are quiet, and can swing around obstructions.
I can't really see where maintaining the overhead wires is that big of a deal. We had fan trip 3 years ago on the 59, 66 & 75 and I had a ball!
Keep them, don't ditch them!
Chuck Greene
First of all, the suburbs doesn't get everything. We have expensive regional rail lines that can be really undependable, and we get the city bus crap when those depots get the brand new stuff.(Fords, some Neoplans, some NABIs). Anyway, the suburbs really need spiffy things like rail lines to boost suburban ridership, because running 1980's buses in the main line (*cough* 105) doesn't do that much.
Now, about the Trackless Trolleys, I don't like the fact that they are being deseilsized, but something should be done about those routes to boost the falling ridership. New vehicles are needed on stronger routes (the 66 is a strong one though, isn't it?), particularly in South Philadelphia, to attract more riders and to make a profit. That isn't happening now. Although the trolleys are great most of the year, in a heat wave they are rendered useless, because of lack of good air conditioning (is there any a/c?).
Necessary things such as the FTC renovation and that Tasker Homes junk needed to happen.
It would be great if some very strong existing bus routes could be converted into Trackless Trolley routes, like the 21. It's not that long, and has decently strong ridership. However, with all of the hybird buses out there (all of them going to South Philadelphia....why not any around here?)
I'm all for the trolleys, if you they were put in places with more ridership potential (maybe I could ride one then). However, this costs money that SEPTA just doesn't have. Remember SEPTA is in a bind (that's the reason for the huge increase).
Don't look towards Harrisburg for help in saving them. They continue to cut operating funding statewide and the new PennDOT head, who deals with the funding of systems and providing matching capital funding as well as everything else transportation related, has little use for trolley coaches (from my many dealings with him when he was at PAT in Pittsburgh in the 90's).
I don't live in Philly but I am familiar with SEPTA. The two southern division routes (29 and 79) are orphans by now and replacing each with conventional buses probably makes sense. The 59 and 66 certainly justify continued trackless operation due to high usage as feeders to the Frankford El. In particular the 66 is unique due to its additional pairs of wires that allow express operation in the rush hours.
I thought today was going to be the run of the mill day, but I was wrong, saw a lot of stuff today.
First saw 3933 (landover) broken down on Rhode Island Avenue about six blocks from leaving the RI Ave Station. It was running on the 84 towards New Carrolton. Observations were dead until I hit Dupont Circle and that is where I saw 8713(an unrehabbed Flxible Metro B from 86 vintage), deadheading to Western, hopefully this is a good sign in that some of the unrehabbed 8700s will come back to service.
I also saw 9316 running on the N4 at Dupont Circle.
THESE BUSES HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR ONLY A MONTH AND......
Saw a Neoplan artic needing some repair. It was 5313 at Dupont Circle, I think running on the S2 (the other choice is the S4). Bypassed that scene and on 11th street I stopped at a stop light, but the bus by me, which was 4009 (Northern) ran the red light. Luckily it wasn't hit, or else you would have seen my face on the tv talking about a bus accident. A few blocks before, saw a FMR Orion V running on the P6 and a block later saw 2216 (Western) with its destination signs not working. On Constitution Avenue, I was about to make a turn, when I saw two orange signs far away, and though they looked like transit buses, I assumed them to be MCIs running for PRTC. They were way far away so I didn't get a good look, but didn't see a hump, which would denote a New Flyer and Neoplans don't run this far down on Constitution Avenue. Finally saw 2099 running on the 13B. After this saw no real bus observations, other than seeing a ton o buses heading towards FMR deadheading. That is all I saw, but tomorrow is another day so I could see more.
Before anyone corrects me, I meant 5313 was broken down at Lafayette Square. Also saw 5226 on the X2 meaning that 5226-5245 are at Bladensburg, and 5211-5225 are at Montgomery, also 5226 doesn't have a bike rack.
As a regular driver on the M15 I cross Delancey Street at least a couple of times per day in both directions. As you all are probably aware, this is a transfer point to the B39 line to Williamsburg. Lately I've noticed nothing but newer buses, i.e. 5000 & 9000 series Nova RTS's, assigned to the line. It seems like a waste of a good bus on such a short line as the B39. Why aren't these buses assigned to some of Fresh Pond's longer lines? An old RTS, even if it's a total dog, should be able to handle the B39. Most of the time, at least on the Manhattan side, the bus is crawling through heavy traffic on Delancey Street and probably not going more than 10 mph. Surely the power and speed of the newer Novas could be better utilized elswhere.
they probably don't want an old dog of a 4000 to die mid-span of the bridge... take their chances with newer equipment.. if that's any better, that's anyone's opinion
It probably is due to high wheelchair usage (avg. 1 p/t.).
Also I see the Nova RTS's on the Q58, usually 9000 series.
Fresh Pond probably wants to keep themselves on par with the Manhattan buses, so they try to make themselves look good in Manhattan by putting out Novas on the B39. Fresh Pond wants to make this route look more attracting, if it were all 4600's/4700's, then Manhattan riders would notice something wrong compared with all the newer buses they're use to seeing. But some Brooklyn riders already know Fresh Pond really has. It's the same with the Q58, they want to impress Flushing by keeping their buses on par with what everyone else has over there.
[Fresh Pond probably wants to keep themselves on par with the Manhattan buses, so they try to make themselves look good in Manhattan by putting out Novas on the B39.]
99+% of the people who see an RTS on the B39 wouldn't know an older one from a newer one, so your statement is not realistic. We bus fans, who know the difference, are a distinct minority.
I agree. I've been on 3918 out of Fresh Pond, (B48) and seen them running two other 3900 series on the Q54. They look exactly the same as anything else to the untrained eye. I even got on 3469 out of Westside and asked the driver if he really was M14D (he was, I waited for the M14A), just to see if it looked or felt different. It didn't
But the passengers might notice if the buses on some routes constalty have a far better ride and make better speed than others.
No, they don't. Only if the bus is a totally different model and is shiny will they notice anything.
The B39 has a high volume of whelechair users. The assumption is that the newer buses would have a more dependable WC lift.
What time of day have you been noticing the newer buses running on the line? If it's in the evening, it's probably due to my "no 4's after 6" policy. Generally, starting at 6:00pm and usually even more towards 5:30pm I have enough Novas pulling in to send right back out for the rest of the pullouts up until 12am. So I have the 4 and usually most of the 8000's fueled and parked and put the Novas pulling in right into the staging area to go immediately back on the road with the next pull out. The result has been fewer road calls during my tour from 4-12am and a majority of the buses on the Fresh Pond roads being Novas, which I know makes some people on this board happy, not to mention the b/o's driving them. Generally the only 4000's you will see in the evening are due to the bus operators keeping them during their meal periods, which enables them to extend their meal with the elimination of time wasted from pulling in and out.
BIG AL
No 4s after 6, huh? 4659 running on the B24 not ten minutes ago at Metropolitan and Graham. I guess you don't work the weekends...
Maybe you should re-read my post as to why you may see a 4000 running late in the evening.
BIG AL
I saw what you wrote about staging busses, ect. I was just playing...not to be taken seriously. Anyway, I never really care if I get an old bus or not, so long as I'm not stuck waiting for one that never comes.
Another reason I forgot to post in my last thread could be due to the buses you see have higher mileage during their runs for the day. As you know, the higher the mileage, the newer the bus generally is. I believe most of the runs on the B39 are relief runs, so this is another factor which would determine what kind of bus is assigned to any given line. As I previously said a couple of weeks ago, Fresh Pond has the lowest average mileage per day for it's buses in the entire system which is why the old buses are always raining supreme into it. But the runs with the highest miles, especially the relief runs in which the bus is on the road all day will be awarded a Nova or at least an 8000 by the yard sld in the AM period.
BIG AL
I'm just curious, since Castleton has the lowest average age fleet in the city, does that mean they have the highest average mileage per day? What about Yukon?
I'm not sure who has the highest mileage in the system. I don't have access to the amount of mileage the other depots buses do. You would have to find someone who works out of Castleton or Yukon to answer your question. David or maybe Q5Merrick may be able to help you with that one.
BIG AL
Can anyone tell me how much is a 4 zone interstate bus pass?I'm sure Trev can answer this one,he used to work for NJT.
$101.00
fare table is here: NJT Bus Fare Table
Damn I checked the site before and I didn't notice the link to the list.Thanks.Oh yeah, if I buy the bus pass for 4 zones,does that mean I have to travel the 4 zones and not get off say somewhere along the 3rd zone or can I get off at the area of the 3rd zone?
You can get off anywhere, as long as you don't pass the 4th zone. Hell you can ride the bus a block for all they care. And yes there are people that ride a bus from one stop to the next.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
This is just to remind you fellow bus talker's that next Monday is the trip to Norwalk Mall.I have not gotten a straight yes or no answer from anyone,if they will come with me or not.Only one that's coming with me as of now is Trevor Logan.If anyone else wants to come just say yes or no.I also remind those that will come to be at the Bee-Line bus stop on Fordham Rd which is a block away from Valentine Av before 10AM for I will be taking the 10AM 61 bus to Port Chester to get to the 11 bus to Stamford which then becomes the 41 to Norwalk Mall.If anyone else beside's Trevor is coming,please remember that next Monday the BL fare will be $1.75 not $1.40.You can also buy the 22 ticket Bargain Book at the True Value Pharmacy on Dyre Av across the street from the the subway station(highly recommended) for $25. From next Monday onward the bargain book will cost $35.
Again,I do not know what to expect out of that Norwalk Mall that is why I am going,exploring new places if you want to call it that.If it's a crappy mall,I sincerely apologize cause then it might've been a waste of time but look on the bright side!You'll get to ride buses and see some area's that you probably never seen before.
If the Norwalk Mall you're talking about is the one where all the Norwalk Routes converge, then it's a "crappy" mall. The last time I was there, it consisted of a PathMark, a Pizza Hut, and 4 or 5 other small stores. It's not a "real" mall, like the others you've mentioned in the past that have 100-200+ stores, along with 3 or 4 anchors. Unless it's changed drastically in the last 10 years, be prepared to enjoy the bus rides, and not much more.
P.S. Up in Connecticut, you're better off checking out Stamford Town Center (though too upscale for my taste), or the Trumbull Shopping Park, which is accessible by Greater Bridgeport Tranit District buses.
I was thinking of going to Stamford Town Center sometime, how far is it from Metro North? What buses go there from the station?
Well that explains why I never heard of Norwalk mall, couldnt even find a web site for it, wasnt listed at saleshound.com either.
Norwalk mall sounds like a complete waste of time. Perhaps re-arranging the trip to go to a REAL mall would be a good idea. :-)
Is CT Post Mall a REAL mall? I'd have to take MN to New Haven to get the bus that goes there.
CT Post Mall is a large mall, 100+ stores. I've been there once, last year. I caught a CT Transit bus to downtown New Haven and then rode back. I forget what route or routes I took. I think the Greater Bridgeport Transit buses on the Coastal Link route may stop there also, I was only there once and I can't find my notes I took that day.
You can check www.cttransit.com to find schedule and route info for New Haven to CT Post Mall. Greater Bridgeport TA has a website also, I don't recall the url but you can check to see if that coastal link bus that runs from Norwalk through Bridgeport goes to CT Post, I think it does.
Mark
I know the O bus from Downtown New Haven goes to CT Post Mall.I checked it the other day.Look's like that'll be another mall I'll be going to but after my birthday.Almost $15 round trip on the Metro North is not good at the moment.I don't have enough for that right now.
I also recall a "Milford Transit District" bus going there from close to the Milford Metro North station several years back. You might save a couple of bucks by doing it that way.
It's about a 10 minute walk from the train station to Stamford Town Center. Just walk up Atlantic Street in the northbound direction about 5 blocks or so, and it will be on your right hand side.
Well then its totally do-able, I walk 15 minutes almost everyday to the bus stop.
CTTransit would take transfers from Bee Line 61 on the 11 Line Bus. The Transfer fee would be 25 Cents next week so if you need a transfer to the CTT 11 Bus it would be $2 and I don't think they would be placed in the Farecard Machine unit so you may have to give the driver the transfer on the 11 Bus.
Heh,heh,heh.Why pay $2 when I'm gonna use the 4 remaining bargain book ticket's which mean's a free ride for me.I'll just pay the $1 fare on CTT,it's no big deal really.
If you going to be useing a ticket all you need to do is just put a Quarter in and get a transfer from Bee Line 61 for the CTT 11 Line
From someone who lived in Norwalk until recently, this mall is an Auto Zone, a McDonalds and I forget what else, not much. Don't waste your time. Go to Stamford Town Center (1/4 mile from Stamford Station) or Westfield Shopping Town in Milford (Rte 1 & I-95). CTTransit New Haven bus goes there. Not sure about Coastal Link.
Hey man,couple of people so far have said that the Norwalk Mall is a piece of crap.I wouldn't mind the bus trip but if it's really not worth going,ya wanna just hang around Stamford?Maybe we can go to this Stamford Town Center that MNRR1017 mentioned instead.What do you think?
Thank Gunn for durable new buses
JOHN BARBER
Wednesday, February 26, 2003
If visions were hot air, federal Transport Minister David Collenette could launch the world ballooning championships singlehandedly. But down here at ground level, where the rubber meets the road, the Toronto Transit Commission's new Orion VII bus promises to be far more effective at the actual job of transporting working people quickly and economically around the city.
And, unlike the visionaries, this rugged, utilitarian beast is genuinely inspiring -- in a humble, bus-like way. With its stainless-steel frame, 18-year warranty and hard-won certification from a Mississauga "shake-testing" lab, the Orion VII superbus represents a rare case study of fundamental public policy done right for once. Ministers, take note.
It won't surprise anybody familiar with real-world transportation in North America that the architect of the Orion VII is David Gunn, the hardheaded Yankee railroad genius who guided the TTC through most of the nineties -- and saved it in the process. The new buses, which will begin to appear on Toronto routes in large numbers next fall, are the concrete result of Mr. Gunn's obstinate standoff against lackadaisical suppliers, meddling politicians and their $450,000 tinfoil people-moving contraptions.
And it probably doesn't surprise anybody familiar with the Toronto bus story that Mr. Gunn appears to be replaying the same role as the latest boss of Washington's Amtrak: pulling faulty equipment out of service and sending it straight back home to Montreal (chez Bombardier) with terse demands for higher quality. If the success of Mr. Gunn's Toronto bus initiative is a gauge, the U.S. travelling public should count their blessings.
The proper starting point for the Toronto story is the 1980s, when General Motors' legendary New Look 40-footer went out of service and the TTC, with local lawyer Jeffery Lyons serving as chairman, began looking for new suppliers. Things didn't go well.
Among the commission's most notorious purchases was a fleet of 90 articulated buses made in then-Communist Hungary. They were supposed to last 18 years, but most of them were on their last legs when Mr. Gunn arrived at the TTC in 1995, six years later. They had become so weak that he ordered them out of service soon after. All but a few, which underwent extensive rebuilding, headed straight to the scrapyard.
Mr. Gunn also grounded 50 Orion VI buses and demanded that the Mike Harris government free him from outstanding obligations to buy from their manufacturer, Ontario Bus Industries of Mississauga, which was then provincially owned and politically favoured. After winning the right to go to the open market, the TTC then collaborated with other big-city transit authorities to demand a radical upgrade in bus quality.
The result was a much higher, industry-wide spec for corrosion resistance and structural integrity, as determined by a rough-road simulation used by transit authorities in New York (the shaker test), and now exemplified in the heavy-duty Orion VII.
But the genius of the Gunn plan lay in what happened during the critical years when no companies were making buses good enough to last 18 years -- the TTC's basic demand. The commission bought time by supplying itself, ramping up a massive program to rebuild 1,500 of its 12-year-old and even 18-year-old buses. At the height of the still-ongoing rebuild, the TTC bought a fleet of 200 clapped-out GM New Looks from Montreal, each of them 18 years old, and brought them back to showroom condition in its Hillcrest yards.
Some of the New Looks roaming Toronto today are 24 years old, according to TTC operations manager Gary Webster. Toronto buses are twice as old as the North American norm and operate with a lot less downtime.
And now comes the finale: New buses that won't need to be rebuilt after six years, might not even need it after nine and, no matter what, will last for a full 18. Despite its superior quality, according to Mr. Webster, the Orion VII will cost about the same -- $500,000 -- as its predecessor.
"We think it's going to be a very good bus," he said.
It's no vision, it's just a bus. But it is real. Bravo for that.
It won't surprise anybody familiar with real-world transportation in North America that the architect of the Orion VII is David Gunn, the hardheaded Yankee railroad genius who guided the TTC through most of the nineties -- and saved it in the process.
How about that? Maybe there is hope for the Orion VII after all.
JD
As someone who has grew up with the TTC and seen it from the inside as well as the outside, the turnaround was nothing short of miraculous. Hats off to David Gunn and here's hoping he can work his majic with Amtrak.
Is this the same David Gunn who rescued the New York City transit system in the 1980s? (As far as those 90 artics, they seem like the Orion III Ikarus buses, but correct me if I am wrong on that.) Also, if those New Looks are ADA compliant, based on David Gunn's track record, they would seem better than some RTS buses in UP and FP.
It's the same David Gunn of TTC, SEPTA, MBTA, WMATA, NYCTA, NY Central, Santa Fe, and Illinois Central Gulf.
You're right-they are the Orion III/Ikarus buses. The TTC still operates about 15 of the vehicles, somewhat refurbished ,using cannibalized parts at Malvern Garage, about 2km from my house. the rest were either sold for scrap- sans engines and trannys, or sold in rough but operating condition to Ottawa (OC Transpo) for refurbishing by a private subcontractor. Ottawa was also part of the original order of Orion III's in 1988. Interestingly, they also took a couple of Hamilton, Ontario's GM artics when they were through with them. Both types still operate on the transitway,mostly.
Unfortunately, none of the vehicles in the TTC's 6-12-18 year refurb program were retrofitted to be wheelchair accessible. Essentially they were returned back to unmodified factory condition, except for new uhpolstry in the old seat frames, LED tail and cl. lights,and a new, simplified paint scheme. Sadly for us, the first 40' transit coaches equipped with wheelchair equipment were Orion 5's that did'nt arrive until 1997.
Does TTC still run any GMC Classic buses (40 foot or 60 foot New Look buses with Classic fronts)?
There were no 40-foot New Look/Classic hybrids. The only buses with Classic fronts and New Look everything-else were 60-footers. Those disappeared from Toronto long ago. Hamilton might still have a few of 'em in service, but they're probably gone by now. OC Transpo has one on property but I don't believe it's in regular use.
TTC was never big on Classics to begin with. They purchased 84 of them in 1987 (57 badged as GM, the other 27 MCI) and most of them are still in service. 6210-6293.
Hi, I'm new here and from Toronto.
Hamilton's remaining GM Artics are actually going through a rebuild right now so they should be around for a few more years. I think there's only 4 or 5 left in Hamilton. As for OC Transpo, the one they have is an old Hamilton artic which they bought a few years back and fixed it up. The bus had quite a few problems and wasn't used much. Its no longer in service, but will be fixed up and placed in the Historic Fleet at OC. If you're interested, 8501 (Orion III artic) will also be placed in the Historic Fleet as the entire Orion III fleet at OC is now out of service.
It should be noted that Classics are making a reappearance in Ontario. Many properties are receiving completely rebuilt used Classics from Eastway and Dupont Rebuilders. The original ones brought in were from properties in Quebec, but the most recent ones have been from Detroit, Salt Lake City, and Grand Rapids. A number of properties have these used buses, and apparantly are doing really well.
Matt
I was jsut reading this article in the metro magazine (http://www.metro-magazine.com/t_featpick.cfm?id=90504780) and it was talking about how to deal with grafiti problems. Maybe companies like SEPTA (has major problems with this) could read this?
Interesting read. I've thought myself that perhaps some kind of coating could be put over windows to prevent scratchitti. Of course, the cretins will probably just scratch the walls then ...
JD
Transit operators could remove the windows from trains & buses, but then all would have to be stored on Rain or snow days! (Words from a twisted mind)
As great of an idea as it sounds, I don't see SEPTA really taking a proactive approach to vandalism as it was when David Gunn was in charge.
Except for replacing the nice, comfortable seats on the El Trains (and all buses too, with the exception of the Fords) with the stainless steel seats. However, they really should do something, because some of the buses sent from the city to the suburbs look horrible!
This was the first time I've been on a FFX Connector Orion V. It was 7861. When I got on at Dunn Loring, I noticed that the "Its The Law" sign was the exact same that is on the WMATA buses. I know that these were piggybacked with WMATA's order, but were these somehow supposed to be WMATA buses originally? Its odd that they would put their things inside the bus if the Connector actually received the buses. Wasn't sure if these were actually rejects like the ones that ended up in NYC.
I would have taken the 1C, but it never came, or it came really early. It should be fun to get home today. I have extra money with me in case that Dumbtrip machine isn't working. I'm not arguing with the driver today.
I saw the same thing too and wondered if they were once WMATA buses.
Looks like they could have been, but no definitive proof. The other FFX Orions have their own policy placards in the bus, the 2000 models anyway.
What kind of seats are in the Fairfax order? If they were the soft blue seats, then they were probably supposed to have been part of the WMATA order.
They have the standard Fairfax Connector Brown seats and the windows only open at the top. That's what was so confusing about it.
Except for the interior(minus the WMATA policy sign), no Clever devices stop announcement system, the windows and paint scheme, they look exactly like WMATAs 4200-4400 series.
It won't surprise anybody familiar with real-world transportation in North America that the architect of the Orion VII is David Gunn, the hardheaded Yankee railroad genius who guided the TTC through most of the nineties -- and saved it in the process.
How about that? Maybe there is hope for the Orion VII after all.
JD
From the WMATA website:
For immediate release:
February 26, 2003
Metrobus to test prototype of new advanced design braking system
Metro officials are exploring an advanced design vehicle braking system for use in its Metrobus fleet in hopes that it will be a more effective and reliable braking system.
Metro's Bus Engineering Branch and Department of Bus Services have teamed up with ArvinMeritor, one of North America's foremost axle manufacturers and brake suppliers, to test and evaluate the feasibility of utilizing advanced design, heavy duty, air disc brake systems in a transit bus application. Metro is one of the first public transit agencies in North America to operate buses with an advanced designed air brake system.
Metro recently installed a set of prototype ArvinMeritor Elsa-2 air disc brake axles into two of its standard, 40-foot, 1997 Orion V transit buses. "We think that the newly designed heavy duty, air disc brake system has the potential to out-perform a conventional, heavy duty, ‘S'Cam, drum brake system," said Jack Requa, Metro's Chief Operating Officer for Bus.
"The air disc brake system will provide for shorter stopping distances, and will not fade under heavy use or on long downhill grades," explained Robert A. Golden, Manager of Bus Engineering. "It should also provide better vehicle stability under braking conditions and allow for overall lower maintenance costs and ease of maintenance. For example, there won't be a need to ‘turn down' brake drums, and it will require less time to remove and replace brake pads, versus brake shoes and drums."
Metro officials plan to operate and evaluate the prototype air disc brake system and compare it to the conventional, drum brake system installed on the remainder of its bus fleet over the course of the next two years. "We will compare the wear and durability of friction material, overall system performance, reliability and maintenance costs, and operator acceptance," Mr. Golden explained. "Should the test program be successful and component pricing competitive, we'll recommend
incorporating the new advanced design air disc brake systems as standard equipment on all new buses."
The idea for exploring new advanced design vehicle braking systems came from Vernon L. Lyght, senior bus engineer, who has, during the past five years, been conducting research on the feasibility of using air disc brakes in a transit bus application. "My research reflected that the majority of European heavy duty trucks and buses were being equipped with air disc brake systems, but in North America less than 15 percent of trucks and buses were being similarly equipped," Mr. Lyght said. "The impetus for this test program and Metro's bottom line remain our need to provide the safest and most cost-effective buses we can provide. I think this new braking system will help us do just that."
It sounds good, but I've skeptical of disc beakes on transit buses-I've had problems with the Knorr-Bremse Front brakes on my fleet's 2 Orion 6s. Yes, the shoes are a snap to replace, but because its not normally recommended to machine the discs at all, the discs don't last nearly as long as their drum counterparts (for roughly the same purchase price, I've found of @350$ CDN. )Also, its a much more time consuming to replace a disc on a bus than a drum. Not only do you have to dissassemble the hub from the axle to dismount the drum/disc, you also have the caliper to contend with-a real pain in the ass, ask anyone who has worked in an MCI E-model "Rennaissance" and they'll tell you. Furthermore, I've run into problems with excessive fracturing/cracks due to the extreme heat/warping that transit service produces. Simply put, the day-to-day grind is simply too much for the discs to handle-drums have more "beef" to them to absorb, and temporairily store the heat, before it is dissapated through the drum's larger surface area. Finally brake fade should'nt be too much of a concern (although I don't know a lot about Washington D.C.'s topography) as long as the brakes are contsantly monitored for proper adjustment, the right friction code(coefficient/ characteristic)is selected for the application/heat level, and finally, that the drivers operate their vehicles with due concern for the heat being produced (unnecessary brake applications,"riding the brakes", etc...)Trust me when I say that some (drivers) don't.
Still, time will tell-Meritor may well be really on to something here.
If anyone can get results of this trial,I'd love to see them.
Thanks, Brent
York Region Transit,
Ontario, Canada
Still had to go in this morning but left early (as you all can probably tell). Walk to the Metro was fine, tok Rohr 1240 up to Grosvenor. This particular run was late because when the train got to Grosvenor, its destination, a person came out of the booth at the north end of the platform to take the north end of the train into the relay, while the normal operator walked through to the south end. As a result, he took the same train back to Silver Spring. Normally, the operators fall back.
Went up to the buses to find, surprise surprise, mine wasn't there. Then again, nothing was. The 6 and 46 to Medical Center were both late. The 46 towards Rockville actually showed up almost on time. The J5 from Silver Spring showed up just before the 37 did, the 37 arriving about five minutes after we were due to leave. After waiting for people trying to transfer, the driver pretty much abandoning the notion she might get back on schedule, and left the Metro almost 10 minutes late. While waiting for the bus, I got about 15 shots of trains entering and leaving Grosvenor.
Slow trip out Tuckerman. The inbound side was bumper to bumper all the way from Old Georgetown to Cabin John Park and again the usual backups up to Seven Locks Road. Got to my destination about 10 minutes late, not bad considering the conditions. I was on 5619 while the other run was done by 5806. Driver told me she left her house at 3 this morning (she lives in West Virginia for those of you who don't remember) and got to the Ride-On garage at about 4:30. She didn't have to go to her other job so she was debating if she wanted to do the rest of the run after the 37, mainly runs on the 43 and 90. MCPS closed early today as did some other school districts, VRE and MARC are on normal schedules, VRE plans no modifications to service for tomorrow. Metro is running 6 car trains all day today. One Ride-On detour on the 5, trips are not serving Leafy House. Several WMATA detours in effect as well.
Be safe out there!
Well this afternoon I observed 2 problem buses running today. The first was 109, on the N27, sitting in Greenvale for 10 minutes, trying to get it re-started. Finally saw it start going Hempstead bound around 5pm, 15 minutes behind schedule. This was while I was waiting for the 4:53pm N27 to Glen Cove, which didnt show until 5:22pm. Apparently, from what a fellow passenger told me, the bus, another 100 series Cummins, smoked and died and they had to get another bus. It was one of the diesel Orion V's, and was fairly packed (got one of the last seats).
The 4:53pm is the same bus that I took out of Glen Cove at 2:25pm, and it was a Cummins and was revving like crazy in idle.
They have to repower that Cummins junk with Detroit diesel, those things have been nothing but trouble since the day we got em.
Interesting, My place is supposed to be getting 5 new Cummins' powered Orion 5's in the spring-now I'm not so sure I want'em. Shouldda 'got the 50 series.
with b1 schedule in hand, i checked to see how accurate the timetable is. there is a b1 starting out at kingsborough at 6:44am(run 12-my bus this morning)-2nd time point is at Brighton Bch Av-Coney Isl Av at 6:49-we ran 1 minute late.
Third time point is 86th St-Stillwell Av-we are due in at 7:08-we were 2 minutes late. Fourth Time point is 86th St-18th Av-we were due there at 7:19a-and we were on time.
My observations conclude that some routes based on the schedules you get from the buses are mostly acurate. Keep in mind this was early in the morning. Havent tried it later in the day or on a Manhattan Trip-but i guarantee i will soon.
B1-#9304-NOVABUS
How will you know if the Manhattan run is the originally scheduled run for that time? You would need a run sheet.
At gunhill now. Saw it today!!!!!!
AMI
Is Gun Hill going all Orion/NF now? (Since Amsterdam became all Orion, GH until late last year only had a mini-fleet of Orions [402-3, 405-12, albeit all originals]). Also, since another AMS bus was transferred, this makes me seem as though AMS is closing when West Farms opens (it is also within a few blocks of MHV). Is this true, and if not, why are all of the Orions going to GH (maybe to prepare for the Orion 6s coming to MCH)?
Those Orions were originally at Kingsbridge. GH has never rec'd any newly delivered Orions.
Wayne
Okay, so just like QV is getting Orions from CS, now GH is getting Orion from AMS. So GH has #402-403, #405-412, #465, #467-470? (I'm not sure if those buses are at GH....yet!)
Ray
It should be 402-403,405-412,465-470. There might be more!!!!!!!!
AMI
Add 413 to that list.
#413 BX28
Does this mean the end of the line for Amsterdam Depot, with the Bx6 moving to West Farms (whenever it opens) and everything else going to MHV?
Yeah, when Amsterdam gets annexed or close, the Bx15 and Bx6 go to West Farms, the M100 back to KB (?), and the M104 to Quill. Won't THAT be interesting...
The M104 would be more efficiently run out of MHV (shorter deadhead time, it could go up 4 blocks to 133, and then turn left toward 12th Avenue and the depot under the Riverside Drive viaduct. However, would they have enough buses? And, is KB getting any Orions (back?)
That is the only one that I am looking for. I have ridin all orions at Gunhill accept that one. Hmmm
AMI
As someone who has grew up with the TTC and seen it from the inside as well as the outside, the turnaround was nothing short of miraculous. Hats off to David Gunn and here's hoping he can work his majic with Amtrak.
These two days should be called the WMATA breakdown observations, because I saw 5, YES 5 buses broken down over the past two days. I have not seen 5 buses broken down in a 2 month span. Well here it goes.
I spotted 9833, possibly doing a F13 run, heading towards PG hospital, along with 3 other buses, including 4081, 3834 and another Flxible, don't know number. The first breakdown happened when I saw 9366 broken down at Mount Rainier, working the T18 heading towards New Carrolton. Breakdown #2 happened at McPherson Square where 4027 stood disabled, possibly running on the 42. The third breakdown was a sort of breakdown. This one was a DASH bus 48 running on the AT5.
It was a Gillig, but wasn't broken down for long. As I was parking my car, it was running again, looking like it was completing its route. It was broken down at the Landmark Mall and 37 was there to replace it, though seemed like it wasn't needed.
Nothing really happened as I headed for home, saw a couple of buses, none to note though.
Over the past couple of days I have seen this Subway sandwich commercial, where the spokesman and an employee enter in a conversation about new sandwiches and the riders' mouths water and everyone rushes off of the bus and runs to the subway sandwich shop. The bus featured looks like a ex Los Angelos Neoplan AN440. This is the first time i have seen a Neoplan on tv, in a commercial, I have seen mostly flxibles and RTSs(GM, TMC and NOVA) and other GM new and old looks.
Is this the same David Gunn who rescued the New York City transit system in the 1980s? (As far as those 90 artics, they seem like the Orion III Ikarus buses, but correct me if I am wrong on that.) Also, if those New Looks are ADA compliant, based on David Gunn's track record, they would seem better than some RTS buses in UP and FP.
It's the same David Gunn of TTC, SEPTA, MBTA, WMATA, NYCTA, NY Central, Santa Fe, and Illinois Central Gulf.
You're right-they are the Orion III/Ikarus buses. The TTC still operates about 15 of the vehicles, somewhat refurbished ,using cannibalized parts at Malvern Garage, about 2km from my house. the rest were either sold for scrap- sans engines and trannys, or sold in rough but operating condition to Ottawa (OC Transpo) for refurbishing by a private subcontractor. Ottawa was also part of the original order of Orion III's in 1988. Interestingly, they also took a couple of Hamilton, Ontario's GM artics when they were through with them. Both types still operate on the transitway,mostly.
Unfortunately, none of the vehicles in the TTC's 6-12-18 year refurb program were retrofitted to be wheelchair accessible. Essentially they were returned back to unmodified factory condition, except for new uhpolstry in the old seat frames, LED tail and cl. lights,and a new, simplified paint scheme. Sadly for us, the first 40' transit coaches equipped with wheelchair equipment were Orion 5's that did'nt arrive until 1997.
Does TTC still run any GMC Classic buses (40 foot or 60 foot New Look buses with Classic fronts)?
There were no 40-foot New Look/Classic hybrids. The only buses with Classic fronts and New Look everything-else were 60-footers. Those disappeared from Toronto long ago. Hamilton might still have a few of 'em in service, but they're probably gone by now. OC Transpo has one on property but I don't believe it's in regular use.
TTC was never big on Classics to begin with. They purchased 84 of them in 1987 (57 badged as GM, the other 27 MCI) and most of them are still in service. 6210-6293.
Hi, I'm new here and from Toronto.
Hamilton's remaining GM Artics are actually going through a rebuild right now so they should be around for a few more years. I think there's only 4 or 5 left in Hamilton. As for OC Transpo, the one they have is an old Hamilton artic which they bought a few years back and fixed it up. The bus had quite a few problems and wasn't used much. Its no longer in service, but will be fixed up and placed in the Historic Fleet at OC. If you're interested, 8501 (Orion III artic) will also be placed in the Historic Fleet as the entire Orion III fleet at OC is now out of service.
It should be noted that Classics are making a reappearance in Ontario. Many properties are receiving completely rebuilt used Classics from Eastway and Dupont Rebuilders. The original ones brought in were from properties in Quebec, but the most recent ones have been from Detroit, Salt Lake City, and Grand Rapids. A number of properties have these used buses, and apparantly are doing really well.
Matt
Sorry to inform you guys this but I was just informed yesterday that no new buses from New Flyer or Orion will be coming into NYCT for the forseeable future due to some disagreements between NYCT and the manufactuers over warranty issues. No idea when any of this will be resolved. This is why there has been very few to no buses coming in from anybody other than the handful of Artics which were recently delivered. Looks like those 3's and 4's are going to be on the road a little longer than we all anticipated.
I hope I didn't cause heart failure for any of you Ridgewood/Fresh Pond/Brooklyn bus complainers.
BIG AL
I just came back from Brooklyn and here's what I saw on the B36:
3962 4742 4763 4782 4792 7522. Other UP Buses I saw were 9084 9085 5098 9090. I think they were on the B4.
FLA: 7500 7506 8328 8331 8336 8409 8417 8428 8431 8444 9383 9399 9412 9436.
I feel for you Brooklynites-NOT! SE Queens had buses worse than this 2-3 years ago.
#3962 B36
Fresh Pond had it worse then QV or JA.
Please stop making it sound that us Brooklyn buffs had it good at once. Compared to Queens, Brooklyn always gets dumped with crap, we rarely get anything good over here. We've been treated bad for over a decade!
I feel more for the bus operators. I know what its like to drive a bus that is a real dog. At the same time there are a select few that would prefer to drive the older RTS models over the newer ones. If I worked at Fresh Pond I could possibly make you like those old buses with the shifting of gears I would do with the 6v92 engine. Sure these older buses may not have LED Destination signs and bright interior lights that can make you go blind but being a bus buff you should be able to find something you like about these old buses. Before you know it we are gonna have new buses (HYBRIDS) that sound like remote contol cars appearing all over. I almost forgot to mention these low floor buses look like they use SUV tires and not real bus tires. Long live the diesel buses and long live the 6v92 engine. Just in case you were wondering I do live in Brooklyn and I appreciate the wide varity of buses we have ranging from the GMC RTS to the new MCI D4500s.
Peace,
Kevin -- Give me a 7500 on the B6!
>>>Before you know it we are gonna have new buses (HYBRIDS) that sound like remote contol cars appearing all over.<<<
Thank goodness someone mentioned this. New buses nowadays have NO personality. The last buses pleasing to the ears that Metro Houston bought were the 1996-1998 New Flyers. I just got off of 4008, beautiful bus with beautiful sound. Too bad her cousins can't live up to that.
YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Well, that figures! No surprise there! We should try NABI or Neoplan!
Ray
I was told by a reliable source at PAT, that Neoplan is on the verge of filing bankrupcy. PAT awarded Neoplan an order for 25 or so articulated coaches, however, the order is on hold. Supposedly, Neoplan was supposed to open up another US factory, however, due to their finanical state, that was scrapped. PAT officals are majorly worried that Neoplan will go out of business and that their articulated coaches will not get built. These coaches were expected by the end of 2003, early 2004, however, since the order is on hold and in jeopardy, they might as well kiss that date goodbye. PAT officials are worried because the 1991 Ikarus articulated coaches are in sad, sad shape. In the summer, they can't pull up the East Busway on the EBA without overheating. They look terrible and run worse. They wanted to retire them when the Neoplans came in, but, who knows what will happen.
If the Neoplan order falls through, PAT will be in a bind, because I'm told that they don't want NABI as they are simply Ikarus reorganized and they were never pleased with the Ikarus coaches in the first place. Also, I've been told that they want nothing to do with New Flyer because the buses are mainly built in Canada, not the US, although I don't know why this is an major issue as the NovaBUS Classics I do believe were partially if not mainly built in Canada with finishing assembly done in Schenctady, NY. I believe the bigger issue may be that PAT is very particular about their specs and I've been told that New Flyer has a reputation about being less than accomidating when it comes to certain aspects of their design and build. I've also come to understand New Flyer expects many TA's to wave performance bonds. This is something PAT refuses to do. I believe if they had to, they would arrange things so that they could award NABI a bid over New Flyer.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I hope this isn't true , but up in my neck of the woods, a large plant was built by Neoplan as a manufacturing plant for busses, but it turned into a repair shop only. The community was outraged because Neoplan had promised all these jobs when the facility was first thought of but the deal fizzled
.
The plant I am speaking of is the one just south of the Honeybrook, Pa. area , which is northwest of Downingtown.
Chuck Greene
If they do not order NeoplAns, what else is there? They don't want OBI and NFI (because they are Canadian). Where will there buses come from: Gillig?
Well, PAT has Orion coaches and seems to have a good relationship with them. From what I've gathered from the OBI site, the shells for the bus are built in Canada, however, the bulk of the assembly (engines, transmission, seating, heating-a/c, etc, is done in Oriskany, NY.
The issue is though, that this is an articulated order that has already been awarded to Neoplan. If Neoplan falls through, Gillig or Orion would not be able to bid because neither make an articulated coach to my knowledge. NABI or New Flyer are the only two options. If they have to, it is more likely that NABI would get it than New Flyer. I think the whole Candidan issue is just an excuse to avoid New Flyer. Like I said, the Nova Classics I believe were primarily built in Canada.
Why don't they like NFI?
NFI has reportedly given some properties a tough time about warranty work in addition to bullying systems into waiving performance bonds. Also, another reason that's been tossed around is that PAT specs out some truly unique and sometimes pecular things on their buses and that NFI has a reputation for being less than accomidating when it comes to unusual requests.
What's a performance bond?
Well, they get pretty complicated, but, to keep things simple, they are kind of like an insurance policy the manufactor is obligated to purchase, unless the property that awarded the order waves the obligation. It basically done to secure fulfillment of all the manufactor's obligations under the contract. They are expensive to purchase, another expense of transit manufactors that deduct in their profit that people often don't realize.
Thanks!
THAT WOULD SUCK!!! Baltimore might have to look for another buyer if this is true. Neoplan has a contract to build around 500 buses over the next 5 years. That would mean that again MDMTA would have to do things all over again.
This would also be poor timing, since it seems that Neoplan was just again getting into favor with those who got the crappy buses in 80s.
They were getting popular again and now they might be gone. DAMN!!!
Well, if Neoplan goes under, the MBTA in Boston is screwed big-time! The T currently has contracts with Neoplan to build trackless trolleys, CNG articulated buses, dual-mode diesel-electric buses for the Silver Line, and most recently an order for 175 diesels (all low-floor buses).
With all of these orders in the bank, I don't understand how Neoplan is hurting (unless they lowballed the bids to try and stay in business).
Jim D.
It seems the good Lord has been answering my prayers all around. That's what Neoplan gets for trying to stick their noses in on a perfectly fine all RTS fleet.
Oh brother, you and RTSs. Neoplans are fantastic, and it's a great thing to have Neoplans in a bus fleet. They are awesome buses-1st class. Besides, would you rather have a NABI or Orion in that fleet?
Well, honestly, I like the Ikarus (NABI) predecessors that we have here, just because I know they'll be hitting the road soon. Particularly the 2400/2500/2700 series buses powered by the DD 6v92TA engines. They don't sound like the conventional RTS/Flx/Neo/MCI/GM New Look engines either, they are pretty unique.
The late 2500/2600 series buses with the dual fuel engines are pretty sweet as well. They sound like jets. Also 6v92TA engines. I give them another 3-5 years.
The Neoplans artics we have are crap. They are too damn slow.
Yeah...the same here actually. What year are Houston's?
The first artics are dual fuel suburban coaches built in 1991. They're looking at the end when the Inverno's come in. They range from 1450-1503.
The next set is the 4400 series. The first bus, 4401, arrived in 1996. They are pretty good. They range from 4400-4467. I THINK 4416 was destroyed in a fatality accident. It burned. I don't know if it was rebuilt.
The 4500 series arrived in early 1997 and the order ended in 2000. They f*cking suck. Metro had a problem with their horrible acceleration back in 1998 and they did a road test and they were beaten by RTS buses. They were supposedly re-engined. Yet, they are still slow as hell. Now, they are up for another overhaul due to EPA regulations. The only good thing about these buses is that they often make wierd noises and have loud engines when something malfunctions. 4536, 4551, and 4555 all experienced the loud engines. 4551 and 4555 have been fixed sadly, I see 4536 everyday almost, but haven't rode it in a few months. I don't know if it still has the "RTS" engine. They range from 4500-4589.
Wow. WMATA put DD 60's in theirs, and I've heard they fly. SEPTA's has DD50s, and they accelerate pretty slowly, but they can go fast.
Yeah, they get going once they're on the road, but when you pull off it's sloooooow going. I believe are buses have the DD50 as well.
That 'slooooow going' could be the effect on the bus's transmission. For instance, an Orion with DD50/Allison can take off FAST but have a hard time climbing up to high speed, on the other hand, an orion with DD50 with Voith can take off like a bike but once it gets into high RPM, it's a rocket. To prove my theory, ride a WMATA 2100 series and a Ride On 2001-2002 orion
i think the neoplans could be govern to pick up . I think the way they do it is it's ddec setting!
If Neoplan falls through, who do we have left. NABI might have the best opportunity to gain from Neoplan's loss, since they make artics.
Orion might benefit also, since they seem to have gained a lot of business and might be (don't hold me to this) the number bus builder in America. New Flyer has had problems of its own, not knowing if they have their problems behind them. Gillig's weakness is their buses are not built to withstand big city streets (the big test will come in Pittsburgh). Blue Bird and El Dorado National don't make buses to withstand big city streets and Novabus has long since left the US bus market.
Is it me or other than Gillig, have all of the major bus makers have had financial troubles at one time or another.
I REALLY don't know about that. The Blue Bird school buses with the international chassis are 20 years old out here in Houston. I rode Bus #1 today, and it's manufacture date reds 6/82. We are a small district mind you, but the larger Houston district has about 300 of these buses running and getting a heavy workout.
The transit buses they make aren't made for heavy duty service, but for medium duty service only. Same thing for El Dorado and to a point gillig.
With the way things are going the TA's may have to buy Gilligs or school buses.
Some TAs might just choose the school buses.
In that case, I'll have my Thomas HDX RE with a CAT 3116 Engine with Allison transmission (if you've ever been in montgomery county). Those look SWEET, ride nice, and are FAST. Or maybe the Thomas SLF (i'm not really a Bluebird person)
I actually went to the El Dorado website (www.enconline.com) and it says that the transmark RE (the kind SEPTA has) are for heavy duty service. El Dorado has a variety of buses of varies "duties". But nothing can replace Neoplan. EVER! I don't understand this, though. Neoplan is getting order after order for articulateds. Why are they on the brink of being bankrupt? I was wondering this with Flxible. Flxible was doing well, wasn't it? Why are these companies going bankrupt? Sigh, I can't believe Neoplan is being threatened to go out of business...
It kind of reminds me of Flxible. I believe Flxible had a back order of 1500 buses, but somehow they went bankrupt. Look like Neoplan is going the same way. Those artics are crap anyway, good riddance I day.
Flxible - 1500 Bus Order (Dead)
RTS - HUGE orders at beginning of 2K from MYCTA, NJT, Dallas, DDOT (Dead)
Neoplan - Huge orders from all over the country (Dying)
Please let Orion and crappy NABI be next.
If those went, the only major player that would be left would be New Flyer....but it's really odd how that would work out. Maybe the buses are just too expensive to make? Something very strange is going on...
I can't say WMATA's ones are crap, even though one broke down the other day near Lafayette Square, it's too early to say. The 9500 series WMATA had in the 80s were supercrap. Neoplan was starting to gain a good reputation before this crisis happened. New Flyer and Gillig would be left if all of these companies go. I personally like New Flyer's buses, but seeing a bunch of New Flyers would bore the hell out of me. I love variety in buses.
And leave New Flyer as the only good transit company? (Never Gillig in NYC!)
It might be when they bid and the bid would be less than the cost of making the buses, they lose money and therefore, if they can't pay their suppliers or even their employees, that might explain why they go under. I think that was the problem with Flxible and the problem with Neoplan now. The RTS died when there weren't enough orders to keep the bus being built and low floors are the bus of choice nowadays. I will say that TAs will regret in purchasing nothing but low floors, some routes, I cannot see, even using a low floor. I can't get over the fact seeing low floors on the X2. They use artics and mainly high floors and seeing a low floor on this route is just plainly odd.
Yeah. SEPTA isn't sending that many NF low floors to one depot because many of the routes operate over hilly terrain, and the low floors are just too low!
The Gillig Phantom is designed for "heavy duty service" according to Gillig, but believe me, they are more of a Medium Duty bus.
Bluebird transit busses, i HATE them, I cant imagine them running on city streets. However, Thomas does make some DECENT looking transit busses (nearly identical to their superior HDX RE school busses) But I do not know how they will do in heavy duty transit service.
If you're referring to the Thomas SLF 200 series, decent is NOT a word I would use. We have 8 in our fleet, and the only thing that spends more time in the shop are our 3 1997 Champion SoLos-and the Thomases are only 14 months old! Thomas (Orion)is losing their shirt on warranty claims.
Any chance that orion bus would begin to build SERTA's articulated bus in the USA. After all Serta and Orion are both owned by DC
I forgot Setra made an artic. Anything is possible. The Orion III was also made by Crown Ikarus, but sold in Canada under the Orion name.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! !@#$%$% TA
B1-#4758-TMCRTS
B64-#9309-NOVABUS
The time is coming when when NYCT buses will have to be powered by tow truck.
We already have that here at LI Bus. In addition to the two breakdowns I saw yesterday, the tow truck was once again headed up to Glen Cove.
CNG=Completely No Good!
Oh God, please don't repower the 4600's/4700's. I am so sick and tired of these buses, I want FP to kill them. Most of the buses here are 16 years, and up.
Just curious, but what is the average lifespan of a NYCTA bus between refurbishings/ overall age since new? And, do they retire after a predetermined ammont of time/milage, or on a case by case basis?
NYCT overhauls buses every 3-4 years, with a major overhaul at the 6-7 year mark.
David
-Thanks for the info. That sounds about the same as the TTC's programme. I assume that with a property the size of NYCT, that it's done in house? Ours are done ourselves.
Overhauls are generally done in-house.
David
Case-by-case. Some factors, without going into sensitive info, include amount of buses in the depot, and ability to get replacements. Most buses are held to a useful life span of 12 years. For example, NYC had 4 buses last 20 years before being scrapped last year, and they were around to see some of the 1988 buses get scrapped. NYC also still has about 28 buses that are 18 years old and 2 that are 19 years old. (These two 19-year old buses still do long runs at all times.)
Yeah, those 4 buses you just said outlasted the entire 1983 RTS series. The oldest 83' bus only lasted for 17 years. I think it was 3099.
and two others, 3085 and 3009 (3009 was removed in August 2000.)
No, I think it was PA3282 out of ENY along with 3009 also out of ENY. 3009 was retired in late 200 I believe, with 6v71 intact, and PA3282 was retired in early to mid 2001.
YES!!! BRING BACK 1852!!! And repower the bus-LMAO!!!
And place it in a Brooklyn Depot-LMAO!
#1852 Q58
sorry, 1852 left storage for the scrapper after 21 years in storage in January. That bus may be in pieces now.
Geez, BOTH manfacturers?? Everyone says that NFI is a great company for a TA to work with, but I guess I'm wrong.
You'd think they would've had those issues ironed out BEFORE they placed the order.
The average age of FP's fleet continues to rise. This is going to be record-breaking, oldest fleet ever, that's sad. I can't wait for Maspeth Depot, all of this terrible treatment is going to change.
FP is terrible, we get nothing good. The drought is 4 years and still going.
It'd pretty cool if the MTA somehow expanded and made their own buses and subway cars? Heh...
I always wondered about that. For a system of our size and extreme operating conditions, perhaps we could sell to other properties as well.
I was joing, but you have a good point there!
Hmmmm ... disagreements with two different manufacturers. Sounds like NYCT might be trying to solve its budgetary problems by turning maintenance expenses into warranty items.
JD
I knew this would come back and bite the MTA in the ass!
Whoever thought that Onions were great buses boy were they wrong!!!
QSC LIB TCC GBL COMMAND MTA Perfect examples.
They should not have gotten rid of so many GMC RTS Buses so soon. If these 2 companies do not get their act straight with the MTA soon, we will be faced with a bus shortage and perhaps returning all of the buses sitting in storage to revenue service once again. Yes that means 3902 will get repowered. And yes the 4600-4899 series would get repowered as well along with the 7000/7500 reman program.
Now that would be a site to see.
#4676 Q58
Oh God, repowered or not, I'm still going to hate the 4600's/4700's as much as I do now. The only thing keeping Fresh Pond alive is the 9100's. We're nothing without them.
At least we're ahead of everyone when it comes to trains.
If these 2 companies do not get their act straight with the MTA soon
How do you know it's the fault of the manufacturers, and not NYCT playing games?
JD
If these 2 companies do not get their act straight with the MTA soon...
Do you really think that NYCT would ever consider Gilligs? FAT CHANCE! Maybe NABI (but not Gillig or NovaBUS, if they are still in the US market.)
I had a colleague check up on this story. It WAS true at one point --there was a warranty dispute with New Flyer in January, which is why the artics weren't coming in for a while. The dispute (which as I understand it did not affect Orion) has been settled.
David
David, I really hope you are right and I am wrong. I had actually heard about the warranty disputes already from a few months ago. However since then I heard it was resolved as you said, only to hear last week it is ongoing again. Before last week I was already starting to wonder if something was going on because even though we know the manufactuers are slow, they can't be this slow. Other than the 4 or 5 Artics that recently came in, and not counting the last order of MCI's sent to Queens and U.P., I can't even remember when the last major order of new local buses arrived into NYCT.
BIG AL
There are more new artics than you think. The new batch starts with 5509 or 5510, I think, and I've seen 5540 on the M86.
I rode 5540 a few weeks ago on the M102
Just saw 5542 parked at 86th and West End about 20 minutes ago. Any higher numbered sightings?
(Should I report sightings here? Is anyone interested? I'm on 86th Street very frequently.)
Just saw 5542 parked at 86th and West End about 20 minutes ago.
Well, this confirms that more New Flyer articlated buses are indeed arriving, because 5542 was NOT listed on the 2/21/03 UTC roster.
Thanks for the info, Dave.
Jim D.
Well, I spotted 5545 on the M79 a week or two ago...I saw 5542 today, M102
I saw 5541 on the M102 around 5:45 this afternoon, stuck in traffic at 86th and Lex. (Fire department activity was blocking the avenue.)
I don't believe the problems between NYCT and the manufactuers involves the Artic buses. It's the Orion Hybrids for QV and the New Flyers for Gleason that seem to be involved in some type of issue. Speaking of QV, does anyone, like Brooklyn67, know if modifications to accept the hybrids over there been completed?
BIG AL
at least 16 artics are in service,12 in quill and 4 in 126 st.
This is causeing major problems to the Q46,Q60,Q74 Lines The Q10 Short Runs to Rockaway Blvd and also to 130 Ave and 150 St is going to follow the regular Q10 Routeing instead of the Q10 Short Run Routeing
Why is 78th Ave. closed?
Well it got back to normal like about 7PM(I beleave that time) it was something had to do with a bomb scare in that area
is there a possibility that a emergency order fro buses from NOVABUS arrive to supplement the fleet of NYC? I mean, wasnt there a emergency reponing of the gmc plant when ny ordered buses in the past?
Nova bus is not longer manufacturing the RTS model.
Well Prevost now owns the rights to the RTS, so that would have to be up to Prevost to make the bus, currently they are only making parts for the RTS.
Really now? That's interesting...let's hope they do the smart thing and start making the RTS again! Wonder what a suburban touring version with their "up and over" windows would look like. Grey Line, white courtesy phone?
-F.
I could be mistaken on the exact date, but I beleive the RTS saw its demise sometime late summer of 2002... NovaBUS has now pulled out of the US market with the LFS as well... a blessing in disguise.
-Tyler-
Disney Transport
I heard the same thing, as for the US market, aside from Montreal and Quebec City, they're aren't many happy customers up here either.
Hmm...that's odd; I was told by a DDOT driver that Detroit was slated to receive more RTS buses throughout 2003. I was riding one of their freshly delivered 2002 models at the time. VERY nice bus, even though the outside looks 20 years old once they hit the routes.
-F.
Why not just remanufacture some of the RTS buses they were planning to retire? How bad can those buses be - RIPTA in Providence and other operators have used ex-NYC buses quite successfully.
JD
Does anyone else own the rights to the Classic design, or has NovaBUS retained the rights the Classic?
NovaBUS's parent, Prevost Car Inc., still owns the rights to the Classics. I miss those buses too, even though they are only express coaches.
I thought that there were Classics running for CT Transit in local service.
They run them in New Haven and a few in Stamford.
I miss those buses too, even though they are only express coaches.
Dust off your NYC bias. Classics are only in express service in New York, but in most places, they are used interchangibly with other transit buses. Santa Monica, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Salt Lake City, and scads of Canadian cities, just to name a few.
[Classics are only in express service in New York]
Green Bus Lines has several Classics that are configured and used for local bus service. I forget the precise numbers, but believe 707 may be one of them.
[Green Bus Lines has several Classics that are configured and used for local bus service. I forget the precise numbers, but believe 707 may be one of them.]
As best as I can tell from the Green Bus Lines roster at TransiTalk, 705-712 have local transit seating and rear doors.
and 713-716.
I believe that Jamaica Bus has one 2 door MCI classic #608
Thank You
Actually, I remeber riding on an Green Lines local bus that was a Classic. back door and all. I wonder what became of that bus.
they are still around. Those are 1990 MCI Classics.
In New York State, two authorities that operate Classics are Regional Transit Service in Rochester (both city and suburban versions) and NFTA Metrobus in Buffalo-Niagara Falls.
Jim D.
Also, Grand Rapids has a few of those (or at least they did in 2000); they were 1990-91 vintage, so they may very well have been supplanted by more Gilligs. I believe they received more of those in 2002.
-F.
Now THAT would be a neat one to reintroduce. Come on, Prevost!
-F.
I liked the earlier versions better as they still had the Fishbowl side windows. Why they would retool it into a generic box later on is beyond me. Wasn't that more expensive tooling-wise, and did it not take away the "classic" image by modernizing the design?
Another note is that the early Classic artics were very neat-looking...they still had Fishbowl styling and were 60 feet long.
-f.
Yeah I thought that was strange. I never knew they had such a bus until I wen to a friends house back in the early ninties and seen an old calendar with a picture on it. I believe it was in Toronto Canada. Also the classic nose with a fishbowl body and windows. Talk about a bus mutation! What a combo!
D.
Your post confuses me about your understanding of the Classic. This is not to be a jerk, but I just want to make sure that you know the right info about this model.
The only "hybrid" Classic (Classic front, New Look sides and back) was the articulated TA-60102N model.
With the possible exception of a single, short-lived demo unit, there was no 40-foot "hybrid" Classic! All 40-footers (model TC-40102N or TC-40102A) had the Classic front and the Classic sides.
The "earlier versions" of the Classic, offered beginning in 1983, look essentially the same as the very last Classic to roll off the line at NovaBUS in 1997.
Amen. And that would ultimately save cost over a new bus. How much is a rehab on those usually?
-F.
I had suspected this was the case, but I hadn't been to Delaware in a while to confirm this. As of late last year, the Flxibles which were the backbone of the DART First State fleet for many years are now all retired and off the property, having been replaced by a mix of NABI high floor and low floor buses.
[As of late last year, the Flxibles which were the backbone of the DART First State fleet for many years are now all retired and off the property, having been replaced by a mix of NABI high floor and low floor buses.]
I was in Wilmington, Delaware, during the past year and recollect seeing nothing but Gillig Phantoms (high floor) on a Saturday. Are you sure about the NABI high-floor buses, or could they be Gilligs?
DART bought 68 Gillig Phantoms (400-series) in 1996-97. Those were used to replace old RTSs and to expanded service. Additionally, they took seven Gillig Advantage low floors (101-107) in 2000.
The NABIs are their newest buses, having arrived within the last year. I know the base order was for 39 buses (20 416 standard-floors + 19 40LFW low-floors) but they may have since exercised options for more, thus wiping out the remaining Flxibles.
And the funny thing is...they aren't even that old at all to begin with! Correct me if I am wrong...right?
Qwuestion: Why were DART's D4500s sold?
The MCIs owned by DART are actually D4000s (or, more accurately, 102D3 coaches, which is what they were at the time). There are only 6 or 7 of them, which are leased out to a contractor for use on the 301 - Wilmington/Dover Express and in summer months on the 305 - Wilmington/Dover/Rehoboth Express. I believe they are also used for express service from Wilmington to Dover Downs for NASCAR events as well.
oh, so I got my shit real mixed up, then, in terms of DART First state...ok, thanks for clarification...
DART First State (then known simply as DART) purchased 70 Flxibles between 1988 and 1990 - 201-245 were delivered in 1988, 246-250 were delivered in 1989, and 301-320 were delivered in 1990. I think the reason these buses were pulled from service despite a relatively young age was ADA issues. The DART First State Flxibles were not equipped with wheelchair lifts; if they were, we wouldn't be talking about this topic, since they'd probably still be on the road.
The 7 Gillig Low Floors (101-107) purchased in 2000, the 19 NABI high floors (501-519; model 416.13) and 44 NABI low floors (520-563; model 040.22) which were delivered last year were essentially one-for-one replacements for the Flxibles (7 Gillig LFs + 63 NABI = 70 Flxibles retired).
DART First State was behind the times, no? By the late 1980's most TA's I know of were having some (if not all) of their buses equipped with lifts.
Jim D.
By the late 1980's most TA's I know of were having some (if not all) of their buses equipped with lifts.
True though that may be, no TA* was required to buy accessible buses until 1990. For various reasons, many TAs started to buy lift-equipped buses beginning in the mid-late 1970s, but some systems held out as long as possible without doing so.
* some individual states had accessibility requirements which predate the 1990 nationwide ADA requirements
The first transit operator I saw with lift-equipped buses was RIPTA in Rhode Island - they received 19 lift equipped '03' RTS buses in 1978. The MBTA in Boston experimented with lifts in the late 1970's and early 1980's - the first bus was GMC New Look #6505 in the mid-1970's (which afterwards was strictly used as a special charter bus for disabled patrons). Then, in 1979 or 1980 AM General buses #9700-9704 received front-door lifts, and GM Canada New Looks #5200-5209 and 5700-5704 received front-door lifts in the early 1980's. The MBTA finally got serious in 1982 and ordered one-half of their new Flyer order (D901's #9400-9483) with lifts and instituted scheduled lift bus service on selected routes. The practice of ordering half of the buses with lifts continued with the 1985-87 RTS orders (8400-8499 and 8600-8689 with lifts, 8500-8599 and 8700-8789 without) - all buses ordered since 1989 are 100 percent lift equipped (except the low-floor buses, of course).
Hope you enjoyed the brief history lesson!
Jim D.
Well, here is what I dont' understand...at least with SEPTA, there are many Neoplans that aren't equipped with wheelchair lifts, yet tehy are still running. Why did DART first state feel obligated to retire their's early?
Because DART's bus fleet is about 12% the size of SEPTA's. DART is small enough where they can replace a third of their fleet with one reasonably sized order. Their 63 new NABIs did just that.
SEPTA, on the other hand, probably has a couple hundred non-accessible buses still out there. It would be a much bigger deal to replace these.
If SEPTA orders 300 buses, that's still only a fraction of their fleet. If DART orders 60, that's a pretty sizable portion of the fleet.
Out of 1,369 buses owned by SEPTA (prior to the arrival of the 5600 series New Flyers starting last month), only 238 of these buses are not equipped with wheelchair lifts - 122 from the 3000-3131 series (DK) and 116 from the 3132-3251 series (EB).
Over the next year or two, SEPTA is supposed to recieve 100 New Flyers (5613-5712), 12 New Flyer hybrids (5601H-5602H are on property now; 5603H-5612H are supposed to arrive later this year) and the 18 rehabbed PCC cars for use on the 15/Girard line (though they might not arrive until next year at this point). The arrival of the hybrids and the 5600s should see the remaining DKs pulled from the road by the end of April or May.
Once the PCCs and the next batch of 300 low floors (with annual options for 20 buses per year, potentially raising the total order to 360) are delivered by 2006, all Neoplan 40-ft buses will be retired from service.
Really? Gilligs in Dallas? That's surprising...I have seen new RTS buses in their colors as recently as 2002.
-F.
Sorry, I should've said DART First State in Delaware, not DART of Dallas. I don't think Gillig would ever bid on an order from Dallas.
Yeah...gotcha. I don't see Gilligs hitting "Ewingville" any time soon either. :)
-F.
Just a reminder that the newest Flxible Metros are now more than halfway through their expected service life of 12 years, and many Metros are approaching the end of their useful lives. If you like watching, riding and photographing Flxible Metros, get out there soon.
I know that you can't swing a dead cat in Baltimore, Washington or New Jersey without hitting a Metro, but before you know it, they will be gone. Those who once enjoyed riding the GMC and Flxible New Looks, and remember how ubiquitous those coaches once were, know what I'm talking about.
Jim D.
The newest of the WMATA Flxibles have at least 7 more years before they are retired, if WMATA holds to that 15 year bus replacement plan.
I think they will last longer than that maybe about 1-3 years more, maybe even longer. They still have some vintage 1986-87 Metros in service (WHOA!!! did I just say vintage). Most of the 8700 series Metros that are unrehabbed are now in storage at Carmen E. Turner training and maintenance facility in Landover.
Baltimore still have some 85 and 86 year Metros in service though almost all of them will be replaced by the Neoplan low floors now coming in.
Tell me about it...1986-87 Metros becoming vintage? WHOA, how times have changed. That's right up there with the shock I got when I was fresh out of high school in 1995; a new station came to town, claiming "Oldies hits from the '60s...'70s, and '80s". My take was "HOLD the phone....EIGHTIES?!?" That's when I began to feel old!
It seems like just yesterday when the Grumman 870s were the "Brand New City Bus"...that was in 1979, when I was just two years old. It's hard to believe that was almost a quarter century ago, and even more so when I look at the one we just restored at our museum. That design still looks newer than what replaced it...park it next to our new Gilligs, and they all look like antiques! :)
-F.
It stills seemed not that long ago when the first of the 8700s hit DC streets. The buses got favorable feedback, most dealt with the fact that they were higher in the back. Most of the 8700-8900s that are still running are still in good to great condition. It will be a sad day when the last one get retired by WMATA (that's Flxible comes back again first, which might be a slim possibility).
I know...it WILL be a sad day when the last Flxible leaves WMATA. The streets of DC will never be the same. Hopefully they have enough sense to keep a few for the Historic Fleet. Who knows, maybe our museum can take in one of the last builds when their time comes...we specialize in an all-Virginia fleet, and those definitely count.
I really would like to see Flxible make a comeback...who knows, maybe MCI will come to their senses one day and just do it, or sell the tooling to someone that will. But who knows what will happen.
-F.
I'll have to agree with the both of you. The Flxible Metros will be missed. Speaking of Suffolk's Flxible Metros, many that I've seen including some that my company Suffolk Bus has are in terrible shape! The best one we have is 9321. It doesn't leak oil nor does it burn it. But I was at my last union meeting in January, The county doesn't have the money to purchase new buses. So the Flxibles stay. There is even talks of retrofitting the Gillig 87xx's(I think we're the only company with them) with new wheel chair lifts and a paint job. When they go to the county auction, I'd like to purchase one. Not one from my company, maybe one from CBS or Inter County or even EBT. The ones they have are in pretty good shape.
Just two days ago I saw 9312 (CBS Lines) at Atlantic on Vets HWAY. I guess it just got serviced. I hope MCI would bring it back because the "Milk Cartons" (gilligs) suck!
D.
LOL...milk cartons? Then our town is a virtual dairy farm...nothing but all-white Gilligs! The only breath of fresh air in our bus world are the blue Thomas SLFs with grey, white, and yellow stripes, and the restored coaches at out local transit museum (three of them are Flxibles, three more are Fishbowls).
-F.
I'm glad you like that one. I really love the Flxible. I don't know but it has that take charge look going for it. Black eyes n' all. Too bad they will be on their way out soon. Last night they were working on one of them. I guess they were trying to get the backup buzzer to work with the reverse lights. But every time the mechanic stepped on the right signal peg, the beep beep noise would come on. Oh well back in the shop with that one. Oh and I hope they tighten the belt otherwise they'd be in for another road call!
D.
the flixible metros in 30 foot model are still running for Suffolk Transit. Hopefully Friday i will get out to the garage in Babylon and check for myself. Does Suffolk have a new order planned once the Flixible Metros are beyond repair?
Only 4 Transit properties in New England have Flxible Metros. Portland Maine METRO has 4 1988 40 foot Metro B's (8801-8804) and 17 1990 35 foot Metro B's (9005-9021) This is as of my last visit there last August. They also have a few 30 foot New Flyer Low Floors. I don't know when Portland METRO is planning to replace the fleet or with what.
Lowell MA RTA (my hometown RTA) has 22 1992 35 foot Metro C's (9201-9222)along with 13 30 foot Gillig Phantoms (9401-9413),2 1998 Blue Bird Transhuttles(9801-9802,pieces of crap!!) and 3 2001 Blue Bird Q bus CNG buses painted in a trolley wrap used for Downtown Shuttle service(0101-0103,also pieces of crap!!). The Flxibles are holding up decently,but starting to show some rust under the rear corner grilles. I try to catch a ride on them as often as I can, but they primarily run them weekdays only, as they only run 12 buses on Saturdays,1 being one of the CNG Blue Birds, the other 11 Gilligs. But occasionally a Flxible makes a Saturday appearance if there are too many Gilligs in the defect lane, such as last Saturday, 2 Flxibles were out, 1 for the whole day, the other came out for a breakdown swap. From what I hear, the LRTA is supposedly getting 6 Chance CNG Trolley buses for the expanded Downtown Shuttle, then they will take the 3 Blue Bird CNG's and repaint them into regular LRTA colors and use them on regular routes. They only seat 29, but they have 2 wheelchair spots opposite the center door. Nothing has been decided as to how long they plan to keep the Flxibles, as in May 2004 they will have been in LRTA service 12 years. I bet they'd outlast the Blue Birds!!!
Cape Ann TA in Gloucester MA has 5 1995 Flxible E's, (9501-9505) 2 or 3 of them are 30 footers. THey also have some newer Nova RTS (98xxand 00xx). From what I hear they run the RTS mostly in base service, Flxibles only used weekdays as spares and for school trippers, not used at all or rarely at all on Saturdays. Over the years Cape Ann has had quite a mix of spares/school tripper buses in it's fleet, including some ex-Brockton 78xx RTS slant backs, ex-GATRA (Attleboro MA) Orion 1's, even a few ex-LRTA TMC Citycruisers. I don't know what they have for a spare fleet these days, nor the complete roster for that matter. Due for a trip there.
Finally, Berkshire RTA (Pittsfield MA) did have 13 1992 35 foot Metro C's (9233-9245) that I believe came off the assembly line right after Lowell's, if what I recall seeing on a production list I saw on line is correct. However, according to what I read on line in the Berkshire Eagle newspaper website, they received 8 Chance low floor 30 footers around the first of the year, the article said that the state inspectors pulled 2 of the Flxibles off the road months ago due to unsafe condidtions, and that 8 of their older buses would be replaced with these low floors. So they may have a few left in service. The older buses are ex-GATRA Orion 1 35 footers and 2 ex-Merrimack Valley RTA 30 foot Orion 1's. Was out there last in June 2002, so I don't know what the current status of the Flxibles there is.
Mark
I understand the Blue Bird issue completely. Blacksburg Transit (VA) started in 1983 with 6 30-foot City Birds, which are a poor excuse for a transit if you ask me. Three years later, they received their first new order of REAL buses..the 35 and 40-foot Flxible Metro Bs, along with two used 1966 GM 5303s from Richmond, and later got four new RTS coaches in 1989, and four 1976 Flxible New Look 40-footers (ex-PenTrans) around 1993.
Here is a testimonial if I ever saw one; the Blue Birds were retired in 1998 in favor of 15 New Flyer LFs (a step up if you ask me), and the Flx New Looks stayed on the fleet until late 1999. Meanwhile, their 1977 counterparts back at PenTran stayed on through 2001.
Here's another "Flximonial": The 1989 RTS fleet was retired in early 2002 to make way for more New Flyers. Meanwhile, the older Flx Metros are still in shuttle service, and will remain so for at least another year.
-F.
I know exactly where you're coming from. Flxible New Looks were abundant here once, but then the Gilligs started rolling in, replacing them slowly but surely. Then one dark day in 1994, the landscape changed from Flxibles and Grumman 870s to all Gilligs.
Case no. 2: Since 1997, I have been making a road trip to visit family in Michigan. Every year, it seems that Flxes disappear from the landscape. Cases in point: Akron, OH; All Metros in 1997, nothing but Gilligs and New Flyers in 98. Flint, MI; Flxibles in 1999, all New Flyers in 2002.
Case no. 3: Blacksburg Transit (VA). I drove for them in 2001, and they had mostly Flxible Metro "B"s of 1986-87 vintage, now they have nothing but New Flyers. The Flxes are "mothballed" outside for game shuttles due to recent 100% ADA compliance issues.
This is why I have GOT to hit DC, Baltimore, and Cleveland as soon as possible. Scoff if you will, but if only we could have new Flxibles like China. All my babies are disappearing! :(
-F.
Ouch! You know, the more I look at a NABI, the more it reminds me of a Flxible. Especially in Baltimore MTA colors. Shame we can't have more of the latter.
-F.
Well the NJT Flxibles aren't no spring chickens either. The Metro B's are ready to get replaced (with what, it's up in their air, with those Neoplan rumors, and the uncertainty surrounding the other builders), and the Metro D's hitting 9 years old. Most of the other Flxibles (the ex-NYC 870's) were replaced by the RTS's but a few survive up in North Jersey, used by independent companies. Also some of the 3500 series NJT buses were displaced by the MCI D4000 and D4500's. So if you want your "Flx Fix" be sure to check out the Garden State.
This is true; they are still very much the flagship of the NJT fleet. Hey, didn't some of the Metro Bs recently get rehabbed?
-F.
I have thought about some new bus routes that WMATA might want to have, does anyone have a route or new bus service suggestion you'd want to see happen. Here are some of mine:
1)Extend either the S from Federal Triangle, the 52-54 from L'Enfant Plaza and or the 70 from L'Enfant Plaza to the pentagon. Also cut the 13 to only rush hour service and have it go down 14th street, turning left onto constitution avenue to resume the current 13B route, and going down 14th street and picking up the current 13A routing at constitution avenue and 12th street renaming the 13A the 13Y and the 13B the 13Z.
2)More buses going between southern Prince George's County into Alexandria and other parts of southern fairfax county, even though this probably wouldn't work as they are planning to create a rail line over from PG to Alexandria. Also include southeast to Virginia.
3)Instead of terminating select 30 trips in Georgetown (I really don't know how they do it) terminate them at the Rosslyn station.
4)Extend the X2 or bring the the X4 to rosslyn station.
I could think of some more but can't remember them as of now.
I'd be interested to learn how someone gets started in working as a driver for a transit authority. I was thinking of maybe being a bus operator in Ithaca for TCAT. Where do you train? What if you don't have any experience driving buses? Where does one start?
sorry for the double post guys.
In NYC the TA usually have notices in the newspapers and I may be wrong, but I think you only need to have a valid driver's license (probably in decent standing) and if you're selected they'll train you. My guess is that all large transit agencies will train their perspective B/O's.
Wayne
Starting out and being hired as a bus operator is different for every agency. I can only tell you how to get hired for NYCT, so you can use this as a prime example.
Transit will post in the newspapers that they will be giving an exam to become a bus operator. In order to take the exam, one must file for it, in order to get an admissions card to be let in to take the exam. You must file for the exam in a specific filing period which is noted in the newspaper article. Once you file for the exam, which usually includes sending in a little personal information about yourself and a small filing fee around $25.00, you will be sent the admissions card which will tell you where and when to report for the exam. At this point, you should go to a good book store and buy 'bus operator training and sample tests books' and begin studying. After you have taken the exam, you will be sent your test scores, usually 6-9 months later with a hiring list number. The better you do on the exam, the lower your list number will be. People with the same score as you, but have served in the armed forces or other government agency usually have a lower number. Other exact ties in score will then be honored with a lower score depending on how early the filing application was received. If both applications were received the same day, then the lower score goes to the last name of the individual whose name starts closest to "A".
When it gets near to the time transit is going to call you from the list, they will send you a letter stating what day to come down for evaluation. You will also be required to have a 'clean' valid drivers license from NYS. You will then be instructed to take an exam at the DMV to have your license upgraded to a commercial status with passenger and air brake endorsements, for which you will be given a book at DMV for some studying material. After you pass the test and have your license upgraded, you go back to transit on another appointment set up by them, and you are on your way to becoming a bus operator.
Hope this helps you out, but I emphasize, it may be totally different for the agency you would like to work for.
BIG AL
Big Al, I see two things that can are not quite right.
1) You have to have your lincens for more then three years, with no more then 2 points on it. (The point might have change to 0 points since I went though it.)
and 2) You go to the DMV and get a CDL Learners permit, at this point they are still two differnt things.
Robert
I gave a very generalized guide on what one has to do to become a bus operator. You are right about the duration one must have the license for. I did state it had to be clean. There are some other tidbits that have to be done as you mentioned with the CDL permit, but he will find all this out once he follows the general directions I mentioned.
BIG AL
I know, but atleast with this he will have a better understanding on what it take to drive a bus. I know there was alot more that can be said, but it would be a long post to explain to him.
Anyway I hope he get what he want, being a former TA B/O myself, I could tell him some things that goes on that he might change his mind. I am shore you might have on storys to tell from your experins driving buses for the TA.
Robert
At Port Authority, applicants apply at one of the regional employment offices for the operators positions. When PAT needs a new class, they pull from those canidates. The applications need to be updated each month, which means candiates must either continually reapply or simply xerox their application and fax it in each month.
From what I've been told, they call in a whole bunch of people and give them some sort of personality test. The better you do in relation to the people you tested with, the better your chances. Of course, you must have a clean driving record, no DUI/DWI's ever, etc...
Naturarly, there are interviews involved and whatnot. I've been told that once you make it to the interview stage, you are practically a shoe-in. As with any transit agency these days, be prepared to pass a drug and alcohol test and perhaps a physical. At PAT, it does not matter if you have a CDL or not. They will hire you even if you do not (most of the people they hire do not) and will prep you on how to pass the CDL. One day, they will pack you in a PAT bus, usually an Orion as they have the best turn radius, and will take you to the PennDOT testing center and each person will use the bus they took you in to take the CDL test.
Once you pass the CDL and get your license upgrade, the 3-month training begins.
Many transit agencies do expect you to already have a CDL however before they hire you.
Some minimums:
- At least 25 years old
- Clean drivers license
- CDL, not a min. requirement, but it helps
It sounds rather complicated. Doesn't seem like a job you can rely on getting so easily. I have a flawless driving record, and I'm sure I could pass the test if I had the book. I'm assuming you can get the CDL after you get hired, since I wouldn't have access to the proper vehicle before that for the road test.
I have heard the job is very stressful. I think it would be fun thought, and i'd feel important getting people to where they need to go.
It's not a complicated process, but it can be a long process. From the time you apply until final appointment could take years. This is why I would NOT recommend beginning elsewhere. Every day you wait is one day you'll lose in seniority at your final destination.
*Never be afraid to learn something new. Never be afraid to be a "rookie", and never feel intimidated by the actions of anyone else. If you can drive a car, you can drive a bus. Operating a bus in passenger service with a load of people according to rules, regulations, laws and schedules is something else entirely, and not everyone can handle it.
It's NOT a day at the beach. We just make it look that way ;-)
Anyway, if you're going to pursue a career in the NYCTA, you should first decide where you want to drive. Your final borough of choice will give you an indication of where to apply. For MaBSTOA, which operates buses in Manhattan (except 126th Street Depot) and the Bronx, there is no need to take a test. You may apply via Department of Human Resources at 1250 Broadway, 11th Floor. For Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and 126th Street Depot in Manhattan, you must take a NYCTA civil service examination. Exams are usually given once every four years. Information may be obtained from the DCAS website (NYC Department of Citywide Administrative Services - I do not have the URL of hand).
In any case, all you'll need beforehand is a clean, Class D license with no restrictions, no felony convictions and a desire to interact with the general public.
The CDL permit is something you'll need to obtain on your own, but I wouldn't suggest applying for it until you've applied to OA or have submitted your TA exam application. The actual CDL licence will be part of your initial training. That runs about $40 or so.
Again, don't start out "small". You'll just be wasting time.
Good luck.
Yes, it can be a tad complicated to get into the job.
And yes, it can be very stressful. You are dealing with the public, and heaven knows what might enter the door for a ride -- or worse.
And the hours really suck until you build up seniority. You won't necessarily have weekends off, you won't necessarily have decent routes, you might have to work odd shifts, and you won't necessarily have straight runs (i.e. on duty for solid eight hours)....and as it is where I drive, you most likely will have to work extra board and not even have regular runs/hours.
Too many people become bus operators because they think it's an "easy" or "fun" profession. I mean, I do know operators who absolutely love their job with a passion, but, I know many more, too many actually, that are their just because they can't find another job that pays as well or offers the same benefits or the flexible schedule. Too many operators end up bitter and jaded. They end up resenting their position. They forget or perhaps never understood in the first place that the point of mass transit is to pick up people, not driving around in an empty bus in circles.
Being a good driver or a good person don't necessarily make a person a good operator. I've known many people who can perform some awesome manuevers on the road with a bus, but, they can't keep a schedule or they have the people skills of a 2X4. Are they a good operator? No, not really... A good driver, but, not a good operator. I've also known many that are remarkable human beings. Kind, compationate, warm, but an absolute menance behind the wheel. A good person, yes, but a good operator... No, not really.
The best operators seem to be transit fans, people who have a true appreciation for t
Too many people become bus operators because they think it's an "easy" or "fun" profession. I mean, I do know operators who absolutely love their job with a passion, but, I know many more, too many actually, that are there just because they can't find another job that pays as well or offers the same benefits or the flexible schedule. Too many operators end up bitter and jaded. They end up resenting their position. They forget or perhaps never understood in the first place that the point of mass transit is to pick up people, not driving around in an empty bus in circles.
Being a good driver or a good person don't necessarily make a person a good operator. I've known many people who can perform some awesome manuevers on the road with a bus, but, they can't keep a schedule or they have the people skills of a 2X4. Are they a good operator? No, not really... A good driver, but, not a good operator. I've also known many that are remarkable human beings. Kind, compationate, warm, but an absolute menance behind the wheel. A good person, yes, but a good operator... No, not really.
The best operators seem to be transit fans, people who have a true appreciation for the purpose of mass transit. These are the people who believe in the idea of public transportation strongly and have a knowlegable background. People who aren't just there because of the pay check (although that certainly helps) but genuinely enjoy driving, people and buses/trolly's.
Becomming a bus operator takes a lot of persistance and sometimes luck. However, if you have decent social skills and can handle the public and management and you like to drive, then go for it.
For starters, call TCAT and ask. Experience is usually not an issue with the bigger transit operators - they will usually train new operators and set up the DMV test. I'm not sure if a smaller operator like TCAT is set up to train new drivers, though. If you really want to get your CDL, some of the truck-driving schools will also train bus drivers.
FWIW, both Centro in Syracuse and RTS in Rochester have open postings for part-time bus operators. I believe Centro's part-timers start out working weekday school trippers and miscellaneous other runs (State Fair shuttles in late summer for sure).
Good luck.
Jim D.
Hmm, sounds interesting. I might wait a bit on it, but I'd still like to do it. I have this thing about driving, and I love buses, so it seems like a natural fit.
Thanks everybody for your help. The comments are appreciated and it gave me a much better understanding of how the hiring process works.
try Greyhound,they will train you free of charge.if nothing else works as long as you can get your permit in your home state.
The 'education' part is pretty easy. All you need is a high-school diploma as do T/O's and C/R's.
I'd like to know how someone gets a job at a transit authority as a bus operator. I think it's something i'd like to do. I've never driven a bus before but I have a great driving record. How does one get started in this industry? Do they provide all the training? I was thinking of starting somewhere small like the TCAT in Ithaca, NY.
One thing you might do to start getting a little experience is look in the newspaper want ads over the summer as that's when school bus operators start hiring for September. They will usually provide training for anyone with a clean record, even if one has never driven a bus before. Once you have some experience (and the Commercial License) you could then go on to tour/charter companies, or transit agencies.
The agency where I work will hire off the street...if one has a clean driving record, and two years public contact job experience and no criminal record.
Training is then six weeks, about two of that is in-classroom and the rest out in yards, on the road with driving instructors, and then out on the routes with regular line instructors. Everyone, regardless of experience, gets the same six-week training course.