Do I have the first post of 2003. If so and here is to seeing more buses this year
Well, I guess I'm gonna be post #2 on BusTalk
GO TERPS!!! 30-3! How do you like that Tennesee?! E.J! E.J! We'll miss you!
Yea, he was a beast, and they were kicking ass and taking names. I got a song for that and it was an adaptation to Jay-Z's big pimping. It was actually done over a year ago on a local radio station. It was called PIMP SLAPPING TENNESSEE.
You have the first post for 2003. It came in at 6 seconds after 12.
Yeah, you got it at 12:00:06 congratulations ;-). Happy new year to all the Bustakers!
I know WMATA is going through some difficult times this year, but it would be nice if for some ungodly reason, WMATA had the money to do some of the stuff I wish they could do this year and they would be:
1)NO FARE INCREASE and along with that more increase in ridership, alot more riders
2)They would buy more artics, believe me they need them, on some routes more badly than others.
3)If they are going to buy more CNGs, buy also more diesels so those of us who can't get CNG buses, would see new buses. Get off of that CNG kick.
4)Speaking of new bus purchases, they should shelve the idea of buying just 40' buses and concentrate on 35' and 30' as well as 60' buses. Some routes really don't need 40' in one way or another
5)More new routes, especially those that go from Maryland to Virginia, would at least be another way to cross the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
6)Here is an idea that would get some whats. To compliment the subway system, set up a bus express system. Silver Spring, Bethesda, Greenbelt, New Carrollton, Branch Avenue, Tyson's Corner, Springfield and Huntington would be the major centerpoint stations for this system and would connect with each other as well as other major job centers, stations and other busy points.
7)Last But Not Least. DUMP THOSE UGLY ORION IIs AND REPLACE THEM WITH SOME BUS PEOPLE WON'T LAUGH AT LIKE THOMAS SLFs.
That is it and again, EVERYONE HAVE A PROSPEROUS, HAPPY AND FULFILLING NEW YEAR.
4)Speaking of new bus purchases, they should shelve the idea of buying just 40' buses and concentrate on 35' and 30' as well as 60' buses. Some routes really don't need 40' in one way or another
I saw a NFI c40LF runing the K2 route earlier today on tuesday. what a waste that is, to run a 40 ft bus on such a short route.
6)Here is an idea that would get some whats. To compliment the subway system, set up a bus express system. Silver Spring, Bethesda, Greenbelt, New Carrollton, Branch Avenue, Tyson's Corner, Springfield and Huntington would be the major centerpoint stations for this system and would connect with each other as well as other major job centers, stations and other busy points
Also, would it be a good idea to run express metrorail trains (i.e., skip stops, like in the NYC MTA)?
It's impossible for Metrorail to run express trains when there isnt even a THIRD track. It's possible for NYCTA to do this because their express lines have dual tracks (express, local)
I want to change my handle, but I cannot have more than one handle per email address. How can I change my handle without registering a new email address?
Talk to the webmaster and I'm sure he will change your handle to whatever you want it to be. I was able to change mine so you should too.
The Bus is I believe approaching 15 years in service, I think they started in 1989 with shuttle service from Upper Marlboro to Landover.
Anyways I wish in 2003 The Bus would:
1)Buy bigger better buses. The SLFs are nice, the Thomas TL960s are ok, but the Champions and the so-called buses(oversize vans) have got to go, or relegated to shuttle service for the court houses in Upper Marlboro.
2)Advertise new routes more. You might actually have more ridership on the 18 if you got notice out to the public better. I remember one time, a long time ago, when WMATA rolled out the R11,15, they sent brochures(timetables) to alot of people including my apartment. And even though we lived kind of close to the New Carrollton Station, it seemed odd to give us a timetable for a route that goes to Greenbelt.
Those are the only two wishes I have for this year. It might be the same in 2004 if they continue to buy the same crap and do the same things they have done in the past, only with more explitives.
Fairfax Connector is going through the same budget problems as WMATA is, and I think it is even worse than for WMATA. But anyways this what I wish for Fairfax Connector in 2003.
1)Get some original routes. Practically every route they have was once one for WMATA. The only routes I think was theirs was the 200 routes. If this was Ride On or even The Bus they would have had seperate routes going from the Springfield Station to George Mason Univerity, to Chantilly, to Burke, to Fair Oaks, to Vienna, routes going from Vienna to Reston, to Tysons Corner, yall get my drift.
2)Start buying some different buses. I am starting to get sick of seeing all of these Orion Vs, and they are becoming Orion V city. Great for Orion V fans, but to one who is not come on now, at least buy another model.
3)Keep fares at 50 cents, that is a good bargain in this area.
Hopefully one of these would come to fruition. (I think it will be the 50 cents one).
Happy New Year to everyone! I pray that 2003 is a good one for everyone.
Its funny that you mention the Connector's service to Fair oaks Mall. The 605 currently runs from the Government Center to Reston Town Center via Fair Lakes shopping center, Fair Oaks Hospital and Chantily. However, for whatever reason, they were snubbed by the mall. I found out first hand more about this.
About a year and a half ago, I applied for a job with Fairfax County in their transportation planning division. The job I interviewed for was for a Planner II position. I'm kind of glad I didn't get it, but one of the cool parts of the job would have allowed me to visit the sites of the bus manufacturers, but the rest of the job sucked. But, we started talking about things and I asked why they didn't route the 605 into the mall like the map originally showed. I was told that Fair Oaks Mall management wanted the Fairfax County gov't. to foot the bill for a bus slip. Why WMATA was never asked this since two of their routes already go in there is beyond me, but the mall management wouldn't allow their buses to go in there. In this case, I think its really funny since the 605 serves more yuppy and high income areas than the 1C, 1Z, 2B and 2G do. There used to be a bus slip on the side of the mall by Hecht's, but a big garage went up there when Macy's came and the buses were moved to park by Sears, which is not ideal for buses or waiting for them either. But, WMATA buses are ok, I guess and the 605 is not. When Fairfax said "No" to the bus slip, the management said "No" to their service!
I've always thought the CUE bus, or even some of the Centreville or Chantily WMATA routes should have swung through the mall, but maybe the reason is because Fair Oaks Management doesn't want more than what's already there. I don't know and don't want to speculate or slam them since they do have one bus that terminates there (2B) and another one that stops through on its way to Fair Oaks Hospital (1C). The traffic in that mall is awful since its so spread out and the buses are always delayted getting out of there. The actually ahd to put a stoplight at part of the parking lot since traffic was backing up so much with just a stop sign.
Visiting the manufacturers would have almost worth getting that job, but if is a very small part of the job, then you chose wisely. I heard about Fair Oaks Mall not wanting the 605 to terminate there, but I didn't hear the whole story, until now, thanks for the missing piece there. I had a sort of secret beef with that mall, nothing scary or that, but I just thought that sucked what Fair Oaks Mall did. That might be one reason why Cue has no route that goes there, even though, the Gold routes go very close to the mall. I remember the old terminal in front of Hechts, I really haven't been to that mall in a long time.
Why did I say 505? Now Fairfax Connector need to do more creating routes like that instead of taking WMATA's routes. The Chantilly routes should be afraid, very afraid, because I think they are next to go to Fairfax Connector.
Yeah, it would have been cool to visit the manufacturer sites, but the one part of the job that really got me was the fact that I'd have to go around and watch certain bus routes. Say for example, you took the 401 which runs from Franconia-Springfield Metro to Tysons Corner and every night you are waiting for a 9:30 PM bus, but either it doesn't show up or its early, etc. I'd have to go to the bus stop where the complaint is coming from and wait for this bus to show up ( or not). I'd be on call, basically at all times and days the Connector runs because since the job was a county job and they contract out all Connector service, they needed someone to watch the back of the contractors. I couldn't do that as I wouldn't have any life at all since I'd constantly be on call. The interview was a bear too as it was in front of three people all writing different things based on what I was saying.
I like where I am now as it is a transit analyst position and I have lots of contact with different transit systems, mainly the large East Coast properties. I've been here 7 years, but one day I hope to make a jump to something else that propels me in the transit field.
Fair Oaks Mall looks exactly the way it has since the first time I ever was there 10 years ago. It look just like Lakeforst Mall as I think they are built by the same companies. When I used to work for Sears at Montgomery Mall in the early 90's, I was sent to the one at Fair Oaks to re-do one of their stock rooms. What a pit it was. They wanted me to work there full time, but I didn't have a car and wasn't going to do that trip from Hyattsville all the time. Although, the manager of one of the other depts. I became friendly with was super hot. Should have asked her out then!
It would be unfair for me (a New Yorker) to judge Fairfax Connector. However, NYC Transit is also in financial crisis, and would be very well-advised NOT to do any of the things you're suggesting for Fairfax.
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[(1) Get some original routes. Practically every route they have was once one for WMATA....]
All public transit agencies lose money, so operating NEW money-losing routes is a no-no. As for the former WMATA routes, it was probably cheaper for WMATA to fund the routes under Fairfax Connector (i.e. contract them out to the county government) than to operate them directly.
- - - - -
[(2) Start buying some different buses. I am starting to get sick of seeing all of these Orion Vs....]
Scrapping the current fleet and buying new buses FOR PURELY AESTHETIC REASONS is fiscally irresponsible at best. If a bus is working well and still within its designated useful life, it should keep running.
- - - - -
[(3) Keep fares at 50 cents, that is a good bargain in this area.]
Most agencies in fiscal crisis are raising fares, or are proposing to raise fares, or have already raised fares. Ditto for cutting service. Leaving fares unchanged is not a reasonable response to a crisis.
For the first one, I am simply saying that Fairfax Connector has few routes that are original routes, most have been former WMATA routes, in fact about 70% were once WMATA routes. Compared to Ride On, and
The Bus, who most of their routes are made by those transit agencies.
There are routes out there to be had in Fairfax County.
Second, I am not saying dump the current Orion fleet, that would fiscally stupid, I am just saying, if they increase service or when they replace the last of the Orion Ones, they should consider going with another bus manufacturer. Although it is good to have one particular bus for mechanical reasons, even mechnics would like to work on another kind of bus. I also believe that the Orion V should be their mainstay bus, but like they have the TMC RTS in the north, they should have a model for the south.
The third point maybe moot. But when a transit company raises fares, depending on how much that fare increase is, you will lose passengers.
The loss of passengers due to a fare increase, fall under two categories. The first is people who leave then come back some time in the future, when they see that the other way of getting from point A to B is insuffient and they want to come back, paying for that increase. The second category, which to transit officials would be considered a nightmare, are those who won't pay the fare and leave for good, never coming back. These are the people who are most likely to go back to their cars and brave traffic jams. The second, transit officials would like to keep this to a minimum, in that if the fare increase scares away too many of the second, or the first group too long or too much, then another fare increase or service cuts would come, resulting in more loss of passengers.
But of course, it is just a wish, something I would like see happen as opposed to reality where, a fare increase would happen and other stuff would happen. Also, if Virginia passed the tax increase, we would not be talking about wishing for this and that.
Happy New Year's to all the Bustalkers here and their families!!!
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Man, I hope that came out good, it took 30 minutes!!
Now that is cool, nice job. I couldn't do that in one million years.
I group these three into one post because they are ok in terms of operations, but do have some wishes for these three:
For DASH:
1)Get those talking buses to work, they have them, they paid for them they might as well use them. They are only on the new Orions and certain Gilligs.
2)Don't follow Fairfax Connector in buying more Orion Vs, this region is getting Orioned out and I believe they have some on order.
For ART:
1)The only wish I have is to buy some real buses, at least some Thomas
SLFs, like the ones GEORGE now have.
For Cue:
1)When I was a student going to George Mason University and I had to take the bus there, they got really crowded, I mean sardine packed crowded, so I would say buy either a couple of 35 or 40 footers, to run only during the school year.
2)Extend a route to Fair Oaks Mall, that is if the mall management bastards let you into the mall premisis. They denied the Fairfax Connector Route 505 off the premises (oddly one of Fairfax Connector's original routes). Alot of students would take the bus there instead of driving there.
3)Be like the University of Maryland and have student drivers. I might have driven one of those things, even though I lived off campus and believe me for a bus fan that was a good thing, even though I am paying for it dearly.
A longer post than I anticipated but those are my wishes for those three this year.
eagerly waits for "What I wish for in 2003 for Ride-On"
according to #3 W.E.S., how would you be paying for it dearly?
What I meant was paying for college, not driving buses. I would love to have driven for Cue if they allowed students to drive. But now I am still paying off college loans, and that is what I am paying dearly for.
Do you know that on Thursday it will be January 2, 2003, or 1-2-3.
Does anyone know when will 100 Street depot will open?
Will this depot be all artic?
Will Hudson depot or Amsterdam depot close?
Will Flatbush get any artic?
Will 126 street keep those artic they are getting or will they be transfer to one of the Bronx depot?
100th Street Depot will open when it is ready. It should open sometime in 2003, most likely in the second half of the year. Last I heard, the plan called for it to be all, or at least mostly, artic.
As for what will close, if anything, that is under discussion right now, so there is no answer.
As for artics in Flatbush, the best answer right now is "maybe." The artics now coming into 126th Street are likely to stay there for a while, but the Department of Buses moves buses around as it sees fit, so nothing is forever.
David
David,
First of all Happy and Healthy New Year to you
In regards to articulated buses at Flatbush i understand that it is off because it will require a new fuel area to be installed and that the TA does not want to spend the money after installing the current fuel area because of the leaks that were discovered several years ago which required the current fuel area to be installed.
Also what is the status of articulated buses on the M-79 route. I understand that the TA was to pull them off the route because of opposition of residents along the M-79 route.
Have you heard anything about the TA taking over the DOT routes
Thank You
I've never heard anything about the fuel area at Flatbush being an impediment to articulated buses being assigned there. As for the "fuel leak," I have it on good authority that much of the fuel was really from gas stations across the street from the depot but that NYCT and its "deep pockets" had to foot the bill for the whole cleanup. (I wish I could see an analysis of the fluids -- diesel vs. gasoline, y'know.)
As far as I am aware, there are no plans to go back to 40-footers on the M79. Most of the opposition comes from ONE PERSON -- who doesn't even ride buses!
As to NYCT taking over the DOT routes, that's another one of those "three men in a room" issues (though the MTA Chairman and Mayor Bloomberg MIGHT be allowed to listen at the keyhole) -- I'll probably find out about it by reading the paper, like everyone else :-)
David
As far as I am aware, there are no plans to go back to 40-footers on the M79. Most of the opposition comes from ONE PERSON -- who doesn't even ride buses!
This sounds interesting! Please elaborate.
There has been some opposition expressed here to artics on both the M79 and the M86, not because of anything wrong with artics per se, but because dwell times have grown substantially with the arrival of the artics. Speaking only for myself, I'd prefer a return to 40-footers even if the total number of seats were reduced slightly. (In other words, I'm willing to trade space for speed. I don't know if my fellow passengers would agree.)
Her name is Betty Cooper Wallerstein. She's been in the papers many times (which may be her objective) -- the Times seems to love her. Her main bone of contention is with the 72nd Street crosstown routes, but if memory serves she's had her say about the M79 and its artics as well. She conducted one interview with a reporter while riding in a taxi and proudly proclaimed that she doesn't ride buses -- and yet she's a constant thorn in NYCT's side.
David
And yes, she's the same woman "Gotham Bus Co." mentions in his post from this morning.
David
[As far as I am aware, there are no plans to go back to 40-footers on the M79. Most of the opposition comes from ONE PERSON -- who doesn't even ride buses!]
This goes back to when the M31 was extended to 11th Avenue. The primary opposition ("Give us access to the West Side, but don't give the West Side access to us") came from the East 79th Street Block Association, which was ruled at the time by one iron-fisted woman who rode TAXIS everywhere she went!! (The N.Y.Times reporter who covered the controversy noted the irony of interviewing her about bus service while riding a taxi.)
David,
If memory serves me correctly i recall only 2 gas stations near Flatbush Depot
One is at the corner of Utica and Flatbush Ave with the diner between the Station and the depot.
The other i recall is on Utica and Avenue O which is across the street from the yard of Flaatbush Depot.
Is it possible that the spill comes from the Department of Sanitation garage on East 49th Street which also is accross from the yard
Thank You
There were two gas stations at Utica Avenue & Avenue O in addition to the one on the Utica Avenue/Flatbush Avenue/Avenue S triangle. Only the building on the triangle is still a gas station; one of the Avenue O buildings still houses an automobile repair facility but it no longer offers gasoline.
The spill could have come from the Department of Sanitation garage. Frankly, I have no way of knowing. All I know is that NYCT was assigned full blame for it (by the politicians) and had to redo the storage tanks and pay for cleanup.
David
"I've never heard anything about the fuel area at Flatbush being an impediment to articulated buses being assigned there. As for the "fuel leak," I have it on good authority that much of the fuel was really from gas stations across the street from the depot but that NYCT and its "deep pockets" had to foot the bill for the whole cleanup. (I wish I could see an analysis of the fluids -- diesel vs. gasoline, y'know.)"
Not true. It was proven that the fuel was indead leaking from the flatbush depots tanks and not from surounding gas sations. For one the fuel plume that is floating underground is deseil and not gasoline. In addition it was confirmed that the leak was coming from tanks under flatbush depot. The fuel stations(there are in fact 3 within a 1 block radius of the depot) you speak of are more then a block away from the epicenter of the spill.
The local politicians which droped the ball by picking up the issues late in the game basically rallyed against anything the mta wanted to do at the depot. It just happened that adding articulated buses to the depot was preposed at the height of the fuel spill problem.
To make matters worse the MTA is still dragging thier feet on extracting the fuel plume from the ground. They have been tracking it's spread for about 5 years now as it speads out further into the surrounding neighborhood
Proven by whom, and to whom? I've never seen the analysis. Is anything available online?
David
The following is a passage from the MTA inspectors generals office 1999 anual report Page 10 http://mtaig.state.ny.us/assets/pdf/annual/99-annua.pdf
"Bus Depot Fuel Leak: OIG investigated allegations that NYC Transit
wrongfully concealed from local residents the existence of a fuel leak at the
Flatbush Bus Depot. A complaint charged that despite the agency’s
knowledge of the leak in 1992, it failed to inform local residents that fuel had
spread under their homes until 1999. A related complaint alleged NYC Transit
was not providing adequate information regarding possible contamination of
nearby homes.
OIG confirmed that NYC Transit discovered leaks from the depot’s
underground fuel tanks in 1992, but we found that the agency, while following
a plan approved by the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation, did not learn that fuel had migrated underneath local homes until
the fall of 1998. NYC Transit made efforts to inform local residents as soon as
it discovered that oil had spread underneath area homes. Air quality tests were
conducted at all of the homes of residents who permitted it. Test results that
were made available to the residents showed there is no health risk as a result
of the presence of fuel in the groundwater. Based on our findings, we
concluded there was no evidence supporting the allegations."
Thanks for the passage. So fuel did leak from the Flatbush Depot storage tanks. That doesn't mean that all of the oil in the area came from those storage tanks -- the passage is silent on that issue.
In other words, what my source said (which is that not all of the problem was NYCT's doing) was neither proved nor disproved by the passage above.
David
The above is the MTA's IG's findings. It basically admits that the MTA knew it had a major fuel leak and basically allowed the tanks to continue to leak and the resulting fuel spread.
The area where the fuel migrated over too is quite a distance from any gas station. There were some independent studies and samples taken by State Senator Carl Krugers office. Unfortunitly they are not online. The is a larger cancer cluster on the block where the fuel has leaked under peoples houses. I have always beleived that the desiel fumes(over 20 years) rather then the desiel in the ground is the likly cause of the cancer cluster.
Whether there were also leaks at the gas stations (amaco, shell and getty) is debate-able. Concidering these are all large coorporations they would be sued also
As it relates to the articualated bus situation and flatbush depot, the artic were being discussed as coming to flatbus at the same time the shit was hitting the fan thus the local elected officals voiced thier disaproval for the plan.
Bottom line: if and when the Department of Buses decides to put artics in Flatbush Depot, artics will be in Flatbush Depot. It's been in and out of the depot plan several times over the last few years (and I'm talking about more recently than 1998).
David
My belief is that no Artic will see Service in Brooklyn until a new depot is built. Reason being ,no current Brooklyn Depots Bus Wash exit , Maintenance Bay , and Support columns can accomodate an Artic Bus on turns inside a Depot especially on a daily basis .
What would be the problem with the turns? Certainly not the turning radius -- artics turn tighter than 40-footers. Are the buses too long for some depots...is that what's being claimed here?
David
I agree with David 100%. I don't believe for a second that the fuel problem, if there really was one, was the reason the artics were not sent to Flatbush depot. IIRC the congestion at Kings Plaza was a major factor in derailing the artics for Flatbush. There is currently a plan underway to rebuild the entire bus area at Kings Plaza making for a section with an island where only the DOB buses would be allowed to pull in and out, and the pain-in-the-ass vans would be completely restricted from. They also want to make that S/B turn around in front of Kings Plaza on Flatbush ave illegal for everybody except for buses. Butch Seay himself visited the area recently and plans are being drawn up now on the rebuilding process. Details are also being worked out with the Kings Plaza owners. I have no clue on when all of this will happen but from what I heard it may be within the coming year.
BIG AL
"also want to make that S/B turn around in front of Kings Plaza on Flatbush ave illegal for everybody except for buses"
This has been in place for over 3 years now. Unfortunitly the NYPD does not inforce this restriction. Take a drive over and there is a sign that says "no turns except buses". When I get my digital camera back i will post a picture. This would be a perfect location for a red light camera type devise. It makes me sick to see the dollar vans blatently disregard all laws.
"There is currently a plan underway to rebuild the entire bus area at Kings Plaza making for a section with an island where only the DOB buses would be allowed to pull in and out, and the pain-in-the-ass vans would be completely restricted from"
This has been partially instituted. DOT drew an island and installed rubber cones a few years back and the community was told by State senator carl Kruger that private vehicles are restrited from entering the painted island(not sure if there is a sign). Over the years the cones have disapeared and buses now park in the painted island. I believe inforcement has been scaled back because the vans moved to the side block around kings plaza. The drivers have been seen getting out of the vans and urinating on peoples lawns(no joke). The angered the community even more.
It is a god dam shame. The dollar vans problem could easily be taken care of.
1)one they committ so many trafic violations. It is so dangerous to walk around the intersection of flatbush and Ave U. Confiscate the vans
2)Use undercover officers and take the vans off the road one at a time
3)They illegally Alter the vans creating safety violations. Removing locks. The doors are held shut by a rope which they release when they want to open the door
4)Pass a law making fines tougher for repeat offenders
5)Pass a law were as passengers are fines for using illegal livery services
The NYPD cracks down a few times a year making a big show out of it and elected officials pose for photos for the local papers and then the NYPD is nowhere to be seen enforcing the law
You don't have to post a picture of the sign. I know of it and the next time I am over there I'll re-read that sign. The past few times I haven't paid attention to it but I'll take your word that it says 'buses only'.
I agree with you about the red light camera but there is no technology that would make it work for any vehicle that was not a bus. It would basically be snapping buses all day also.
From what I heard, they want to make that large sidewalk in front of Kings Plaza smaller and make the entire section basically a mini bus terminal with assigned slots for the B41, B46 and B9 to pull in and out of, different from the way they have it now. How they would enfore it to keep the vans out once and for all is still beyond me, but any changes would have to be better than the way it is now.
After Kings Plaza is finally rebuilt, they may reconsider and start bringing in the Artics.
BIG AL
I agree, it would be a waste to put a red light camera at the turnaround at Kings Plaza. Oh, they plan on making the terminal something like Williamsburg Bridge Plaza, they should of thought of doing that a long time ago. Its going to be a huge task of curbing the dollar vans & I don't see that happening anytime soon.
So how does one enter the mall parking lot from Flatbush Ave S/B? I guess those turning lanes onto Avenue U will be heavily used. As for the $1.25 vans, I dont see that going away anytime soon. There is one local politician who is for the $1.25 vans and make sure the "community" is heard.
" There is one local politician who is for the $1.25 vans and make sure the "community" is heard. "
These vans have absolutly destroyed the community around kings plaza. Most people have given up and sold the place they called home for nearly 50 years. Had many good friends and spent many days on the blocks around kings plaza as a child. The place is unlivable because of these vans. They honk their horns all day long. Trash is all over they through trash everywhere and even pee on peoples lawns and tree's. Take a look for yourself. The place is a mess.
The best way to get rid of the vans is to fine the people who use them. A few $50 fines for passengers would go along way to ending van use. I would not mind th vans as much if they operated safely. They cut each other off to get passsengers. Speed, run red lights, cross the double yellow line to go around slow moving traffic at intersections and make U-turns in the middle of flatbush ave.
The MTA privides tons of service up flatbush ave but it can not compeate with the speed of the dolar vans who disobey trafic laws.
I do rember the $1 Cabs that ran along Jamaica Ave from Parsons Blvd to 256 St/Jamaica(Queens/Nassau Border)and also along Hempstead Ave til Belmont Park. I only rode them only 2 times and it was OK but they speed too much and make U Turns that is aganist the law on Hempstead Ave.
The cops stopped this service since about 95% of the cabs are not certified with the TLC and also broke the law that they can't take passengers who flag down cabs. So this was discontune at the year 2000. Now all they need to do is get rid of those $1 Vans that link up with the Parsons/Archer E J/Z Lines.
Since more & more dollar vans are becoming legalized and are getting the proper documents to operate vehicles to carry passengers, I don't see it going away at Jamaica Center. I know some of these vans go via Brewer Blvd and 147 Av, do they go down streets like Merrick Blvd as well?
There's some that go's down Merrick Blvd but the Merrick Blvd Vans come at a rate of 2-3 Vans an hour. Some even contune out into Nassau along Merrick Road until 5 Towns
What?!?! Two or three vans per hour???? Obviously, you don't spend much time on Merrick Blvd.
Merrick Blvd. vans, which have been flourishing since the transit strike of 1980, usually appear very frequently along the Q5 route. Some vans even pilfer customers from the Q4 and Q83. For some reason they haven't infiltrated the Q84 and Q85. The Q5 vans serve Green Acres Mall, and not 5 Towns.
He shocked me with that 2-3 per hour statement also. Maybe he really meant 23 per hour?
Actually the vans, illegals for the most part, are starting to hit the Q84 route also, but nowhere near the amount you see on the Q4 and Q5 routes.
BIG AL
Well that was how it used to back when I lived in Jamaica. It change pretty much that I rarely on Merrick Blvd now a days. I thinking there was a Van that ran sometimes to Green Acres but at Green Acres I did not saw much of them.
About saying 2-3 Vans per hour,That happins sometimes
I ment to say 5 Corners instead of 5 Towns
I don't think vans would be THAT infrequent on a busy thoroughfare like Merrick Blvd.
"Since more & more dollar vans are becoming legalized and are getting the proper documents to operate vehicles to carry passengers,"
Even if they have proper documents to carry passengers they still can not pick up passengers hailing them on steets. By not enforcing the law they hurt legitamate medallion cabs. IF the city wants to allow them they should at the very lease follow traffic laws plus clearly define thier rules of operations and enforce those rules.
dollar vans have become a common sight along the following routes:
B41
B46
Q5
Q5LTD
especially along Q111,Q113. The Q112 as well as the Q110(hmm..all the Jamaica Bus Line routes)-but theses have dollar cars running along the line. The Q10 has it too.
I think in Far Rockaway, there are dollar vans too. Grand Concourse may have dollar vans but I am uncertain of that.
I don't think Grand Concourse has dollar vans. I no longer live in NYC, but I'm often on the Grand Concourse when I visit and I've never seen them there.
Wayne
That is correct. There are no dollar vans on the Grand Concourse. The bus/train service is good.
Peace,
ANDEE
The Q112?? I have been down on Liberty Ave many times and I have not sighted not even 1 Dollar Van along the Q112
Me neither and I've been down there recently, I saw NO dollar vans via the Q112 route.
its not dollar van they use. they use cars. a person can fit at least 3-4 people in his/her car and pick up people along the route. this goes on at the Q10 route as well.
Oh, you're talking about gypsy cabs, there's a lot of those in Brooklyn as well.
The Q10, at least the southern section, seems to have its share of gypsy cab hustlers, who make up their own rates. I once saw two competing drivers nearly come to blows in a turf dispute at the JFK-bound stop at Liberty Avenue. That seems to be a popular place to pick up people just off the A train who are in a hurry to catch a flight. During last summer's strike, drivers would bellow "Strike- no Q10! $8.00 to airport right here!" This was despite the fact that (a) GBL was not one of the stricken lines; and (b) there was a Q10 pulling into the stop as they spoke.
Somehow you don't see too many dollar vans or cab hustlers at the Kew Gardens terminus. Maybe that's because they know there's usually a cop presence, especially during the week- nearby courts, after all.
Not dollar vans per se, but the Q65A is also popular with cab hustlers. They sometimes completely block 70th Road between Queens Boulevard and 108th, and routinely cut off subway-bound buses pulling into stops along Jewel Avenue. (This once caused me to miss a connection to the 44 at Main Street.) Some years ago, I gave a friend a lift to 71st-Continental in my Chevy Celebrity, a popular model for car services legal and otherwise. As soon as my friend got out, someone jumped right into the front seat while two other people were rattling the locked back door handles. They apparently ASS-UmEd I was a cab hustler. I assured them in no uncertain terms I was not.
While waiting ten minutes for the N4 at Jamaica Center, I saw three instances of dollar vans making quick U-turns on Parsons, one in the path of an outbound Q111, whose driver had to jam on the brakes to avoid a collision. The driver jumped out to confront the van driver, who zoomed through a red light and left on Archer.
I still don't understand why, with the death of the two-fare zone, that there's even still a market for these vans on routes that feed subways- especially along Merrick, which has four services as far as Linden, three to Baisley, and two to Farmers. But there is.
I used to own a 1980 4 door Dodge Aspen as a second car, another popular model with the liveries, and everybody always thought I was a cab also and would stand on the corners waving for me to pick them up, so like you I know how that feels.
Most people ride the vans mainly because they feel they are saving some time. Some also feel they are saving .25 - .50 cents depending on what the van is charging. Most of these people who ride to save a quarter or two don't have to transfer to the subway when they get off.
I hate to say it, but the van problem is going to get alot worse once NYCT raises the fares. One van operator already told me they have no plans on raising their fares from the current $1.00 - $1.25, knowing their ridership is going to increase quite a bit.
BIG AL
***even if they have proper documents to carry passengers they still can not pick up passengers hailing them on the streets***
Actually, you have that confused with the dollar and gypsy cabs. The legal vans can pick up hails as long as it is on their route of operation and NOT in a designated NYCT bus stop.
The only automobiles allowed to pick up hails are the yellow taxis.
BIG AL
I was reading in the Daily News earlier this week that some Queens politician is presenting a bill that would make these dollar vans more legal. So I dont think these vans are going away for awhile.
Dollar vans are here to stay, since more and more are becoming legalized.
Im in 100% agreement. Dollar vans are here to stay.
1. The city does not allow unsubsidized bus service to serve new areas at this time. The van mechanism is the only way that new services can start up quickly. NYCT has a limited budget and will not alter routes unless absolutely necessary. NYCDOT can't substantially change ANY of their routes due to the City Charter and the City Council's lack of motivation to fix it.
2. The MTA NEVER took the time to understand why vans took off in popularity. Here's a hint: it's NOT the fare, contrary to popular belief. It's speed. If you miss a bus, you can still get to the subway before it does if you catch a van 5-7 minutes after. Lighter vehicles tend to accelerate better. Therefore, people jump in when they don't have time to spare. It's a premium service, just like yellow cabs in Manhattan, but it's strange how no one complains about those cabs taking away business from buses.
3. Does anyone know how much money these drivers make? If you're really good, more than $30K per year. Since few of them have the desire to build their own market, van drivers make very little money for the work that they do because they saturate high-volume routes with the same product. Compare that to the hours that they work, plus benefits, bus drivers on an ENTRY LEVEL do better than the average van.
You bring up an interesting point in #2. Yellow cabs IS an establsihed form of transportation and therefore people would adapt to that and I wouldn't find that so strange. People are just mad b/c the dollar vans are successful and they're making a good buck [although they do think its a speedway on the streets]. I agree with you, the MTA DID NOT take the time to look at how dollar vans bloomed. The dollar van boom really took off during the transit strike of 1980 and since then the vans proved that they could get you to your destination faster than the bus. Add all the service you want on the B41, B46, Q5 etc and the vans more times than not beats the bus, even the LTD buses.
Nothing serious will probably be done about these vans until one is involved in a serious accident with multiple lives lost.
JD
That's already happened, more than once I might add.
BIG AL
Its not only Flatbush Av, Utica Av has dollar vans as well so its going to be a LONG process to get rid of them, well actually you can't b/c more & more drivers are getting permits [mainly b/c of the inlfuence of the community boards] from the city to pick up passengers. $50 fines for each passenger who uses them, give me a break that is NOT going to happen and people WILL protest should they ever be eliminated. I DO agree that they are unsafe at times, drive erratically, cut off city buses [this happens basically every time I ride the B41 or B46]. I don't ride the vans at all but they are entitled to make some money as long as they are running legally & obeying laws [although that doesn't happen too much].
Well,Dollar Vans and Cabs are every bus drivers worst nightmare. Sometimes some Bus Drivers get back at them by Blasting the horn and/or Cutting right infront of the dollar van or cab.
This thing happins alot in Jamaica as well.
The worst is when they go into the bus stops and block the buses from entering
If the community wants the dollar vans end the subsidised bus service on the route. The MTA can find ways to spend the money somewhere else.
The fact that the dollar vans have TLC certifications does not mean they can pick up fares the street. Only medallion cabs can. If the Dollar vans want that privilege they should have to buy a medallion which i believe goes for about $200 k
More dollar vans got all the legal documents to operate their business with the help of Una Clarke's influence for drivers on Flatbush Av & probably Utica Av as well when Giuliani was trying to put them out of commission a while back but he lost & with Clarke's help, we have what we have.
That was politician I was talking about. Does she still serve the Flatbush area?se Also MTA tried to stop the guys as well. Look at Eastern Pkwy-Utica Ave.(IRT#3,4). The B46 bus stop is a city block long in both directions(Eastern Pkwy to Union Street). The same can be said for the B41 bus at the the Junction(Flatbush/Nostrand). When I lived in Crown Heights, those dollar vans made and still do make a killing. When Utica Ave and Eastern Pkwy was getting repaved at the same time, the B46 bus rerouted to Schenectady and Rochester Avs. (This is how started taking down bus #s). The dollar vans would run straight on Utica Ave, where the subway is, where the businesses are.
Does this mean the M101/102/103 will all run out of 100th St. with an all-articulated fleet? And do these routes use Manhattanville or Mother Hale now?
[Does this mean the M101/102/103 will all run out of 100th St. with an all-articulated fleet? And do these routes use Manhattanville or Mother Hale now?]
I believe that the M-101 and 103 operate out of Manhattanville now, while the M-102 (and M-98) operate out of Quill.
The French Connection is scheduled to be shown at 8 PM Eastern Time tonight with a repeat at 11:30PM. If you remember the previous thread I started about this flick, there are great shots of NYCTA New Look Fishbowls (GM & Flx). Some with Bat - Wings.
Saw this movie last night. It stars Leonardo Di Caprio as a teen-aged con man in the mid-1960's. In two or three scenes on NYC streets there are two a/c GM Fishbowls painted in a dark green to simulate the NYCTA colors. There are no #'s on the buses and they're probably from a rental company.
Later there is a scene in front of Miami Int'l airport. There is a fishbowl in the background. It is white with an orange stripe, which would evoke Florida colors. Yet when I went each summer to Miami Beach during that time, IIRC, Metro-Dade transit had a very pale aqua livery, definitely not whit/orange.
Still later there is a scene with a PD4104 (or 4106) and a silversides in that background.
The buses at Miami Airport were painted in that sort of livery....they were not operated by Metro Dade Transit, but rather the Airport Authority down there.
The livery on the fishbowl at "Miami International" Airport doesn't even come close to any livery that was used here during the 1960s!
Also, in the movie you can spot a Greyhound Scenicruiser and the Greyhound IC-41!
The buses for this movie were supplied by my competitor here on the west coast. Originally I had the job that also included some vintage Volkswagons but he underbid me by about 20 grand. I have not seen the movie so I cant tell you what buses he used. This was a real sore subject for me when it first happened but now I am OK. There is just some real cheesy people in this business.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Hey, wasn't your company instrumental in getting the Fishbowls and the Grumman for "Speed"? If so, great work! I hated to see the Grumman go bye-bye though. :( And the Fishbowl for that matter.
-F.
Happy New Year to all.
Got back from the Fort Lauderdale area where I spent my vacation this past week. For you Flxible fans, Broward County Transit is still running their Flx metros in their 9000-9200 fleet series. Some are still painted in their older paint scheme with the orange and blue stripes. Other buses in their fleet consist of Gilligs and low floor New Flyers. Quite a number of buses have full or partial ad wraps. On a previous subject that was spoken here at Bus Talk was bike racks on buses. BCT has bike racks on most of their buses and I’ve seen them used quite frequently.
I was down in Boca Raton a few weeks back, and found some time to ride Broward Routes 1 and 10 from Aventura Mall up to Boca Raton. I had new low-floor Gilligs on both routes and thought they ran quite well. My observation was that ridership on many Broward County routes is quite good, especially compared with ridership observed on Palmtran routes up in Palm Beach County, just north of Broward.
For any bus fan visiting this area of Florida in the future, one of the more interesting and scenic routes to ride is the Miami/Dade Route S, which takes about 90 minutes to get between downtown Miami (Government Center) and Aventura Mall. You get to see most of Collins Avenue in Miami Beach (especially northbound).
Just by looking at the Miami/Dade Bus Map that I have. The S Line is longer then the Q60 line here in Queens
Yes - plus the S tends to use American Ikarus 436 articulated buses. Miami-Dade Transit offers extensive service to Miami Beach; all of these routes are recognized by letters rather than numbers.
Up in Broward County, BCt (err, I mean "B-Line") is a strange system. They have a whole lot of extremely long, extremely serpentine routes that run upwards of two hours end-to-end. And, virtually every route in the system seems to operate at a 30-minute headway at pretty much all times of operation. I find it curious that a system like this would have only 40-foot buses in its fleet; I would be sure that a few of their routes would be better served by 30- or 35-footers. Too bad about their fleet, though. Last time I was there in 1994, they had loads of Flxibles and quite a few 1980 RTSs in service. I guess there is more variety now, but an increasingly Gillig fleet doesn't do anything for me. Are any of their Gillig Phantoms in the honeycomb paint scheme yet? Those were the last ones delivered in blue and orange.
[Are any of their Gillig Phantoms in the honeycomb paint scheme yet? Those were the last ones delivered in blue and orange.]
Like the older Flxibles, many, if not most, of the 1996 Gilligs have received the honeycomb paint scheme. Interestingly, the one Gillig I took a photo of in that scheme still had the blue and orange stripe on the roof line, so it evidently wasn't a total repaint. I thought the 1997 (or 1998?) New Flyer Low Floor buses came with the blue and orange paint scheme, but I'm not 100% sure. Certainly, the earliest of the Gillig Low Floor buses had the honeycomb scheme.
Yes the 1997 New Flyer D40LFs (9701-9745) came in the orange/blue color scheme, they were the last BCt buses to be delivered this way. I think all of them have been repainted. You will see the remant of the orange and blue stripes on the roof line of most of the repainted Gillig Phantoms, BCt did a "quick and dirty" job when it came to applying the honeycomb scheme. The honeycomb is just an applique which was put directly over the orange and blue stripes, they may or may not have repainted the bus white first. The New Flyers did not have the stripes angling up to the roof near the front of the bus as did the Gillig Phantoms and the Flxibles, so that is why generally there is no trace of the orange and blue on those buses, an exception being when one of those half-wraps is removed, generally the applique comes off with the wrap so you have some orange and blue showing in between the honeycomb.
Yeah,your not kidding about some routes being two hours end-end.Route 9 from Aventura Mall to Downtown Ft.Lauderdale is a perfect example.
[Yeah,your not kidding about some routes being two hours end-end.Route 9 from Aventura Mall to Downtown Ft.Lauderdale is a perfect example.]
Of course, nobody other than a bus fan would take Route 9 between Aventura Mall and Downtown Ft. Lauderdale, as Route 1 buses make the trip in 65 minutes (even with the slight detour to the airport). Of course, some systems do have direct bus routes that take two hours or more end-to-end. I think routes 1, 2 and 3 of Palmtran may qualify.
I only took it once 2 years ago and it was cause that was the only one there.The 1 wasnt around and I wasn't sure when it was gonna show up and I really didn't wanna wait too long either.
BCt's line 1 runs every 15 minutes all day weekdays and every 1/2 hour on weekends, this is the current schedule, it may have run less frequently 2 years ago (BCt has improved headways on several of its routes in the last year or so). But if you didnt have a schedule, you had no way of knowing that, so it probably was good idea to grab the first thing that came along.
Yeah but I had my mom with me and she wasn't too thrilled at all.
I remember when I was a little kid and was visiting Miami Beach,
I saw the "S" bus signed up for "95th Street". That was back in the days of the non-air conditioned GM air-suspension buses. Your post about the "S" route is really neat, since they kept the "S" designator for so long plying the route on Collins Ave.
Chuck Greene
The S was the first MDT route I rode once I was living here, from Aventura Mall to the Omni Terminal in Downtown Miami. These days, the crappy Ikarus articulated buses mostly are assigned to the S.
Thanks for the update! I also remember the "L" bus on Collins Ave.
Chuck Greene
[I also remember the "L" bus on Collins Ave.]
Coincidently, the Ikarus artics are also used on the "L".
The day I rode the S from downtown to Aventura several weeks ago, it appeared to me that all but one of the S buses coming in the opposite direction were Ikarus artics. The sole exception was a 40-foot NABI low floor bus.
The L is probably one of the busiest routes in the system. It does double duty as both a Collins Avenue Miami Beach route and the crosstown on 79th Street. Miami-Dade Transit has 66 artics; it seems to me that they are mainstays on routes L, S, 11, and possibly 3 and some Busway routes.
There is an old Myron Cohen story about 2 old Jewish ladies who don't know what bus they are getting on, but it's a Collins Ave. bus.
They don't realize where they are going but they end up at Hialeah Race track. Didn't or still does one of the routes say
BEACH-HIALEAH" (my spelling is wrong, I'm sure). Well they each buy race ticket and their horse loses. They say to each other, "It's a lucky thing that we lost, what the hell were we going to do with a horse?"
Sick, off topic story ,but it proves you have to read the destination signs!
Chuck Greene
The artics do run mostly on the routes you listed with the exception of the 3 (the 3 runs out of MDT's Northeast Division and the artics are assigned to the other 2 divisions, Central and Coral Way). The only Busway route where you may see an artic is the Busway MAX (MAX=Metropolitina Area eXpress, despite its name, it is a limited stop service). Artics are occasionally seen on the Flagler St MAX as well.
I was looking at those 9000 series Flxibles you mentioned also while visiting Fort Lauderdale last year. For the most part they are in excellent condition for their age, but I notice fewer and fewer everytime I visit Florida. They are being replaced rapidly by the Gilligs and New Flyers. Now, if had the money I would buy one of those Florida Flxibles in a hot second. Considering there is no such thing as a pothole in the entire state, you will never find a bus that had any kind of abuse what so ever. Florida's worst bus is probably in better condition than the best bus you will find in the entire Northeast.
BIG AL
Why does the M1 have to end at Astor Place/4th Avenue during late nights and weekends? The NYCT should operate the M1 at all times to South Ferry!
This will allow riders from uptown to ride to Lower Manhattan on weekends for food, entertainment, to visit downtown attractions, shopping, and etc.
It could help the regrowth of Lower Manhattan because uptown residents
would then be able to contribute to the downtown economy.
Well maybe. With what MTA is dealing with right now, Maybe it's possable to do so
I think it's a question of demand. Probably will create additional costs without more patronage beyond what the M6 carries now below 8th St. Customers can easily transfer from M1 to the M6 at 14th St. or 8th St. Or they can use the M15 if originating further east.
One of the problems with the M-1 is the line is much too long.
With the revival of So Ho and Tribeca areas of Manhattan a evening and weekend northbound bus is needed in Lower Manhattan. As of now when the M-1 does not operate there is no northbound service between Bowery(the M-103) and 6th Avenue(the M-6) below Houston Street.
Maybe the TA should consider splitting the M-1 into 2 routes as it did with the M-10
The current M-1 will operate between 147th Street and 8th St-4th Ave and a new route say the M-41 will operate between Columbus Circle and South Ferry
Any comments
Thank You
Maybe they should bring expanded LTD service on the M1 if it comes to running it all times to SF. Splitting the route isn't such a bad idea but I don't know if it's in that much demand so I'm mixed on that.
Has anyone ever heard of the SUBWAY!!
IT is absolutly rediculouse that the MTA has not upgraded subway station in to manhattan ADA standards and eliminated the costly unneeded north south bus routes.
Most places in the world have little or no mass transit. In NYC we have too much in some places. Just another example why NYS and NYC are has one the hihgest tax rates in the country and high poverty. Monies wasted could be spent on better education and lower taxes attracting more jobs. Many compaines want to be in NYC and NYS but the taxes chace them away
I use to work in Lower Manhattan at Grand Street and Broadway for several years and i have the following observations for changes in Lower Manhattan bus service
1-As noted before either extend the hours of the M-1 or divide the route in two so service can run in Lower Manhattan
2- Extend the B-39 from Allen Street to the Bowery so passengers can connect to the M-103
3- Make the M-9 route changes via Water Street permanent and extend the route to the Northern part of Battery Park City
4-Reroute the Grand Street bound M-22 via Broadway instead of Park Row similar to the Staten Island loop express buses x-15,x-18 and x-20
from Chambers Street. The current routing via Chambers Street and Prk Row is a waste for one stop on Chambers Street east of Broadway.
5-Restore crosstown service via Grand Street/Broome Street. In 1987 it was indeed a good decision to eliminate the old M-8 Grand Street line. But with the area increasing full time residents a new crosstown line is indeed needed. Upon the reopening of Brooklyn service via the Manhattan Bridge use of the Grand Street station will increase. Prior to the M-8 Grand Street bus being discontinued this was the leading ridership pattern of the old route. Im additon if the B-39 is extended passengers from Brooklyn will have a crosstown Lower Manhattan service which currently does not exist.
6-Extend the M-21 to Battery Park City via West Street
Any comments
Thank You
Here's my two cents on your proposals.
1. I would expand the hours of the M1 over splitting it.
2. I would do that too; it would make the B39 a more desirable route but I thought of running down Bowery to Canal St then makes a u turn at the end of Bowery, and it also serves the Grand St station and a new connection to the B51.
3. The way it is going, the M9 reroute would probably stay permanent.
4. It was probably done to provide direct access to the J,M,Z,4,5 & 6 trains at Chambers St & Brooklyn Bridge stations. If its working, then leave it alone.
5. I think a Grand St crosstown bus could make a comeback. It has to run via Broome St westbound since Grand St is one way at one point and it would help when the NS of the Manhattan Bridge reopens in 2004. Also, it would have decent ridership since Chinatown & lower Manhattan is blooming so this idea is good.
6. I don't think its necessary to extend the M21, people could just transfer to the M20 at Varick St.
I would to the following if i ran the TA
1-Extend the B-39 via Delancey St,Chrystie St,Broome St,Bowery,Delnacey and return to Brooklyn
2-The M-1 is too long a route and to extend evening hours may not be cost-effective. That is why i would split the M-1 into two routes
3-A crosstown Grand Street run would operate as follows
From Grand St/FDR Drive via Cherry St,Jackson St,Grand St,Chrystie St,Broome St,Avenue of the Americas,Houston St,Washington St,Spring St and stand. RETURN VIA Spring St,Varick St,Grand St to FDR Dr.
4- The M-22 will be more efficent by running on Broadway and it still will connect with the Chambers St/Brooklyn Bridge Subway Station. By rerouting it will no longer connect with Brooklyn Bridge bound traffic coming from Centre/Lafayette Streets
Thats my opinion
Thank You
1. I thought of the exact same thing (what a coincidence).
2. You're right, it would become too long but if they expanded LTD service, it may not have to be split but I guess the split would make more sense.
3. That makes sense, I had something similar to that.
4. Now I see what you mean by moving the M22 to B'way.
With the way things look around the WTC site,it looks like the M9 route via Water St is permanent.The M9 can't run along its old route like it used to since the area around the WTC is gonna be entirely different than before.I'm suprised that they still hadn't added the M9 signs to the M15 bus stops yet.That route might as well be permanent. Its gonna be decades before anything is ever built at the WTC site.
We're talking about buses here you know. Well they could start by building the 2 Av subway. Anyhow, the demand is high for some places so that's why there is so much sevice plus in Manhattan the blocks are long and some people can't handle going through all those stairs & as you said, there aren't as much ADA stations so the extra bus lines make it sensible.
The MTA should focus on making those stations ADA complient. OF course on the east side where there are no subways thus buses are needed.
Buses are not needed on broadway (assuming all station are made ada complient). It often quicker to walk down broadway then wait for a bus.
Then explain why the M104 carries so many passengers well into the night.
I honestly don't understand it myself. I used to use the M104 before intermodal transfers, but now I use it very rarely, and I live around the corner from an M104 bus stop. But the fact is that a lot of people still do use it. It's probably carrying people traveling relatively short distances who are coming from or going to points between subway stations and don't want to walk.
The main reasons why the M104 is fairly busy is that
The service is provided and there are large gaps between subway staions. If the service would be eliminated, people would either use the train or walk a block over and take another bus line.
There is far to much north south bus service in manhattan. A few time's I have tried to save a fare taking the subway north and the bus south. Unless I am really short on cash it is not worth the extra time and hassle. The outer boroughs are shortchanged in comparrison to manhattan in terms of transit coverage. People are flat out spoiled. The end result is higher transit fares. With the level of transit ridership in NYC and the economies of scale the NYCT provides fares should be fare lower then the current or preposed fare.
But what happins if the Broadway Subway Line go's down??? Where would tthe people would have to get the buses? How about the older people?How about the people that find the bus better and more useful then the Subway?
The current M6 really does that already - it starts at 7th Ave. and Central Park South, one block from Columbus Circle, and parallels the M1 until 14th Street.
Andy,
If the M-1 is split i figured that Columbus Circle with be a good northbound terminal for the new route. My reasoning is as follows
1-Possible interline with the M-6 run
2-Connecction from the east side of Manhattan(Park Ave,Park Ave South,Lafayette Street ) to west side routes
3-If the M-1 is split then the logical depot for the new route will be Michael J Quill.
4-Easy turn around for the new route
I believe that the M-6 and this proposed new route will have different ridership bases especially northbound
Thank You
Or how bout a route that runs via West End Av from Broadway and 106 St. to South Ferry as the split M1 route.I'd call it the M37.It would start at Broadway and 106St as mentioned before,run along West End Av/11Av then West St past the M9 and M20 terminal at Battery Pk City on West St then follow the M9 straight to SF.I noticed that around the Javits Center,11Av is a one way street.Where does the one way begin and end? After I get an answer from that question,I'll post the routing of the bus from SF-106th St.
Too long
The idea is to keep the runs short for several reasons
1-If delay in service than a short route is easier to return to normal than a long route
2-Better use of drivers. On a long run they can only make 2 or 3 round trips. Hence longer pay
Short runs more vehicle time at straight pay
3-Easier to supervise
Thank You
Let me throw my opinion in on this.
The only way you could make this route successful is to make the split route an LTD only service from SF b/c if its a local only, it will be too long and split routes typically; the new route is usually shorter plus it HAS to overlap the current route at one point or it will not work. By bringing it all the way to 106 St, its not really a split route and Barry mentioned running costs would rise as well as payroll & short turns would be more difficult.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Makes no sense. No need for a bus along West End Avenue; that street is between Broadway and Riverside Drive so the M5, M104, and #1/9 subway are all a block away. Anyway, I sincerely doubt that West End Ave. residents want their own bus route. That avenue is 100% residential north of 72d Street, unlike Broadway. Riverside Drive is also all residential, but only on one side.
The best idea is to do nothing; keep the M1 basic service between 147rg St/Lenox and 8th St/4th Ave; with peak period service to/from SF. The M6 and M15 provide full time service to South Ferry anyway.
Ohh? Ocean Av in Brooklyn is entirely residential on both sides of the street so how come the B49 runs along Ocean Av and there can't be a bus on West End Av? It be for the lazy people who dont feel like walking to Riverside Dr or Broadway and of course let's not forget the elderly people too.
Who will pay for this additioal duplicate service.
In the case of ocean ave the nearest bus line is at least 10 blocks away. The subway is 5 blocks away at some points of its route.
They is far two many north south routes in manahttan we should be looking at ways to eliminate surface transit reducing traffic in manhattan not adding more traffic to the street. That is the reason we built subways in the first place.
this week i noticed 7017 at yukon. it has no stickers, and i was wondering if anyone had any if on this bus.
im definately oging to have to check this out-if this is true, maybe Yukno will finally have better buses for local service. now is only ulmer park can do the same with its local fleet.
it is not yet in service, its on track 19. also, 468-470 are gone. and the other rts's, the 3900's are 4300's are not yet in service, and still have jam and qv stickers on them.
I saw a 3900 in service the other day on the S79.
Really? Damn, the DOB could be very tricky and pull surprises sometimes. What is a QV bus doing in SI, it beats me.
This is just a thought but maybe those QV RTS's are being sent to SI to make room for CS Orions going over to QV. CS would then have room for their artic order. Remember, this is just a thought.
better busdes at yukon? you must have celebrated too much new years eve. 7017 is a 1981/82 reman and those buses are now ready for scrap. any rts coming to yukon is on its way to nimco. this has been the case for years now. youll never see a 5000 rts there. these buses are evidently for new pick beginning monday.
New pick for DOB begins Sunday 1/26/03
BIG AL
better buses at yukon? you must have celebrated too much new years eve. 7017 is a 1981/82 reman and those buses are now ready for scrap. any rts coming to yukon is on its way to nimco. this has been the case for years now. youll never see a 5000 rts there. these buses are evidently for new pick beginning monday.
I saw this bus on the M86 yesterday
Its number was 55XX instead of 10XX
It had a slightly diferent back, new stop requesters(what are these called) and the lights in the accordion part were florecent
MJQ does have 5xxx series artics in the fleet as well as the 10xx series. The 5xxx buses are obviously newer so don't be surprised if you see different features on the inside & outside [yes they are both made by New Flyer].
They might have been the New New flyer busses,loaned from 126st.Perhaps 5511,5517,5520.Well when i went up to 126st a week ago I saw 1 artic. It was 5511 and it was signed up for M15 service.
No, no artics were loaned to Quill from 126th Street. The buse referred to in the original post are #5506 and 5509, they were once at 126th, but were sent out to Quill after the artic order was delayed...#5507 went to Kingsbridge, #5508 to Gun Hill.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
No because the 1999-2000 artics dont have floresant blubs in the middle. I have a cousin who works at 126 and he told me that one of there new artics was at Quill.
AMTRAK MODELING
[I have a cousin who works at 126 and he told me that one of there new artics was at Quill.]
I have seen a UTC roster dated today that indicates 5519 is on loan from 126th Street to Quill.
Thank you sir. I knew what I heard.
Visit Amtrak Modeling
www.geocities.com/acelaexpress6250
I know all about the 1999-2000 order. I have ridden all of these buses.I have ridden 5506 when it was at kingbridge,and on the M86,5507 on the Bx41 and on the Bx31 when it was at gunhill,5508 on the Bx12,5509 on the M79,and sat in 5520 whileit was at 126,got good looks at the bus and its differences to the 1999-2000 order.
Amtrak Modeling
A recent UTC bus roster indicates that 5506 and 5509 are at Quill (together with the 1000 series artics), so it was probably one of those.
What you probably saw was bus # 5527 which I spotted in service tonight on the M23 line. I'm not sure if # 5527 is the only 55xx artic in service at Quill or if they have started to receive others.
that was the #
is there a website that has bus pictures and information about bus models
Try the Yahoo A1 Model Bus Group....Many pictures of model buses.
I meant real busses... not the small kind... Sorry for any confusion
www.transitalk.org
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Sure there are...http://www.transitalk.org, http://www.busexplorer.com, http://cleanairbus.tripod.com, etc.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Sorry not to post this early this morning, as I had to go to work and I needed some beauty sleep. But here it is.
1)Buy different bus models, I heard that the operators weren't too pleased the New Flyers, but there are still Neoplans, NABIs, even Gilligs, Van Hools, and El Dorados (I think these might be heavy duty)
We in the Washington area are starting to get Orioned out seeing more Orions bought in the past ten years than all other buses combined.
2)Due to many busfan's complaints, eliminate the 42, extend the 46 to Bethesda and terminate the 46 at Rockville. They can change the 55 to take that part of the 46 to Montgomery College.
3)It will be done, but name either the Lyttonsville garage, or the Gaithersburg Transit Center or the Silver Spring Transit Center after late bus operator Conrad Johnson. I would also name the route that he was going to run after him(probably a first anywhere), this last one most likely wouldn't be done (naming the route that is).
I believe of all of the local transit agencies, Ride On is the best, with DASH coming second and Cue coming third. WMATA is of course left out because it is a regional carrier.
NOOOOOO no nononono. i NEED that 46 to pick me up after work from the library, it brings me straight home :)
The other suggestion would be to keep the 46 as is, still eliminate the 42 and use the 34(from what WMATAGMOUGH). The 42 and 46 were once WMATA route T6 and this route was discontinued in the early 90s.
I didn't mean to concern you. One other thing, have a shuttle route for Montgomery College, and have it go from the Rockville Metro Station to Montgomery College-Rockville, have it run every 5 minutes, only when school is open. The many times I have ridden the bus up there and boy those buses get REALLY crowded. Actually change that have a route that runs from Rockville to Montgomery College-Rockville, then to Shady Grove running every 5 or 10 minutes, using only 40' buses. Sad to say, actually The Bus Does this, having a shuttle bus running from the New Carrollton Station straight to Prince George's Community College. It is called the 21X, and even that route is crowded with headways of about 20 minutes.
Rockville to Shady Grove shuttles aren't a bad idea, but thats basically running the same route as Q2 or 55 would run. But that has the same concept as the free 91 shuttle which they eliminated last year, I actually quite enjoyed that shuttle, now it's gone :(
This route would be more of a non-stop route, only stopping at Montgomery College in between leaving and arriving at Shady Grove and Rockville. That would make the 55 and Q2 less crowded.
[Due to many busfan's complaints, eliminate the 42, extend the 46 to Bethesda and terminate the 46 at Rockville....]
Service decisions anywhere should be based on the needs of the riding public, not the wishes of "many" (or any) busfans.
I don't wish much for PRTC in 2003, except for more routes into Fairfax County(local that is), create some bus transfer centers and:
Talk to WMATA about extending the Yellow Line to Potomac Mills, especially going down I 95, that would take some car traffic and get some more shoppers down there, like they need some more.
What is PRTC?
Potomac & Rappohanok Transit Commission, I think.
In 2002, I had the great opportunity to experience another major city's transit system, that being Baltimore MTA. I have to say I do like their transit system, and will await the arrival of the Neoplan low floors. I also must say I do also like those Flxible Metros, hoping to ride the 8500s, 8600s before retirement and the 9400s with the M11 engines. The NABIs aren't bad either. But....
1)They definitly need more buses, to my estimates, they should have at least 1000 buses, even as much as 1400 buses. They are about the same size as D.C. and about the same area population as the D.C. area, maybe a little less. Also of all of the routes I have ridden most of them have either tons o standees, standees or is crowded over most of the route. The only route that I have ridden that I don't see this is the 17.
2)Do that railplan thing. AGAIN THIS IS JUST A WISHLIST, and from what I hear the likelyhood of them seriously doing this has the same probability of me liking the Orion II.
3)Have more routes that connect with WMATA transit system, not only would it be fun for busfans as myself to enjoy the two transit systems, it could get people who drive to Baltimore from the Washington area and vice versa to leave their cars and ride transit. Also along those lines, since the B30 connects to the Baltimore Light Rail and transit system, WMATA and Baltimore MTA should come up with a day pass to ride both transit systems without having seperate passes to ride either. I would call it the B-W transit pass and charge $4 for it.
just so anyone was wondering, this is the guy formerly known as ckd2784
What the heck kinda handle is that? Man,now I've seen everything.
New Look Terrapin!! LOL. Go Terps! I missed the game, but saw the highlights of how we took care of the Vols in the Peach Bowl! Yippeee.
I have heard rumors that the State of Maryland might raise the gas tax about 5 to 10 cents per gallon to pay for transit improvements, such as the purple line, bus purchases and garage construction. If it is more than a rumor could be done that would be an amazement, especially with a Republican govenor in office. I was thinking of a similiar plan for the whole region. I know how the governments don't want a regionaly authority to levy taxes, but my plan would keep the individuality of the local governments, but in the same scope raise enough money from taxes, to make transit growth possible, and maybe lower fares to lure more rider.
First there would be a sales tax increase of about .5%. That would mean that Montgomery, Prince George's and Charles Counties, would pay a state sales tax of 5.5% and Fairfax, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William Counties and the independent cities of Alexandria, Fairfax City, Manassas and Falls Church would pay a state sales tax of 5.0%.
This extra sales tax would pay WMATA operations and any overruns of capital projects and aid in capital projects.
The second part would be an adjustable gas tax from as low as 1 cent per gallon to up to 5 or 10 cents per gallon on gas in the affected areas. About 80-90% would go to WMATA capital projects and the other 10-20% would go to the local transit agencies. The thing about the gas tax is that the local governments would control the tax level and each local jurisdiction would have the tax at seperate levels, only for what they need. This tax would have to approved by all of the members who use WMATA, if one jurisdiction does not approve it then nothing will happen.
Tell me what you think of this plan.
i'm a bus and rail fan, but i drive too. even though i drive a little hyundai, a raise of 5-10 cents on the gas tax seems steep, but im a bit confused about something. you mentioned that local governments would control the tax levels and local jursidictions would have the tax at separate levels. so who has the final say on the amount of the gas tax, the local government or jurisdiction? (it seems to me that you're stating the same thing twice)
The county government(s) would control the increases, decreases. I guess to mean local governments to mean the county or city goverments.
It would be the ones who pay for WMATA service to begin with. Maryland pays for Montgomery and PG's share and Fairfax and Arlington Counties as well as the cities of Alexandria, Falls Church, and Fairfax City and D.C. pay their independent share.
Yea, I drive a Toyota Camry to work and every week I pay about $20 a week for gas, but I wouldn't mind paying some extra money, if it means in the long run not having to drive and take the bus, if it runs in front of my house past 11:00 PM.
If it gets more people to use transit, I'm all for it. And Maryland has some great service from what I understand, including Baltimore MTA. With that, I'd say Maryland would be more receptive to such a plan than here in SW Virginia, where most people are conservative tax-haters, and would rather choke on their grits than pay more to operate their latte-colored SUVs than ensure that the rest of us can get around. Hopefully MD is not as narrow-minded, and this will work.
-F.
If it gets more people to use transit, I'm all for it. And Maryland has some great service from what I understand, including Baltimore MTA. With that, I'd say Maryland would be more receptive to such a plan than here in SW Virginia, where most people are conservative tax-haters, and would rather choke on their grits than pay more to operate their latte-colored SUVs to ensure that the rest of us can get around. Hopefully MD is not as narrow-minded, and this will work.
-F.
Besides JG Depot, why is it that the Brooklyn Division must stay RTS dominated(not that I have anything against the newer RTS's)? Does NYCT hate Brooklyn? Because of this, it seems that FP, UP, FLA, and ENY will have to depend on "hands downs" for the next couple of years, and if thats the case, Brooklyn's average fleet age is going to truly suffer. Manhattan and the Bx always seems to get the newest buses first, while Brooklyn(besides JG) gets ignored. If you look the the Bus Roster, you'll notice that Brooklyn is made up of mostly "hand downs"(i.e 4753-4792 in UP, 4400's in FLA).
This "RTS exclusivity" is really going to hurt the Brooklyn Div. since the development of the RTS has been killed.
Right now, the 1999 RTS series(4900-5249) is officially 4 years old, and will remain as the newest buses in Brooklyn(if you don't include JG's New Flyer's). And whatever "hands downs" Manhattan and the Bx give us, I doubt it will lower the average age of Brooklyn's fleet.
Just and wait till 1999 RTS's become 8 years old. They will still be the newest buses for Brooklyn(excluding JG), while Manhattan and the Bx will already have 2007 buses.
These are my predictions for the future of the Brooklyn Div.
2003 isn't going to be anything special for it.
I know right Brooklyn always seems to get stuck with RTS [not that they're bad but the other depots could get a variety of different models other than JG]. For your home depot FP, their fleet has actually gone DOWN a little but the # basically stayed flat for 4 years and the rock of the fleet there is 1987/1988 TMC's!. You think FP had it bad, UP hasn't had a new local bus fleet [not really the RTS suburbans since they started as express buses] since the 1996 Novas! UP & FP had more hand me down RTS's than any other depot since I can remember and usually gets brand new buses LAST. Lets refresh some memories.
Fresh Pond
-----------
Before the 1996 Novas the fleet was all 1200's, 1400's, 2200's, 3200's, 3300's, 3600's, 4000's, 4100's, 8100's from FB & only the 8100's were the only buses FP had that was built in the 1990's lets comapre that to hmm 126.
Before 126 got their 1996 Novas they had some old buses as well but not as bad as Fresh Pond. They had 1600's, 4300's, 4500's, 4800's, 8100/8200's and 8400's.
So Ridgewood does make a valid point that we always seem to get hand me downs disproportionately to other boroughs. But they are strong, and we're doing fine with them so we'll just have to live with it and I don't mind [sometimes I do mind I ain't gonna front].
Fresh Pond also had the 4700s from Flatbush as well.(4730-53)
Its 4730-4752 from Flatbush. 4670-4682 came from JG and they had hand me downs from UP too [3656-3666 and 3678-3680].
I belive UP's 4800's are Yukon "hand downs" too, plus those horrible 4200's(they're gone now) that were in FP given to us by Kingsbridge.
And some 3700's from Castleton were dumped in Brooklyn as well.
ulmer park hand me down come from the following:
7511-7534: ENY
4754-4792: Amsterdam
4854-4872: Castleton
4874: Yukon
only 9077-9110 and 9295-9341 plus the MCI Ulmer Park has are theris. everything else was transferred.
Don't forget about some of the 4000's [4002-4004,4006,4008-4012,4015-4017] that came with the 7000's from ENY. And UP lost 5075-5099 to FB & 8340-8351 to ENY, which makes UP get shafted even more.
i have seen today #4883 on the M22 and #3893 on the M6. Both are coach models. the question that bothers me is, if Ulmer Park has #4854-#4872 plus #4874, would it not make sense to get the missing #4800's from Hudson? Even though these are express coaches, it is much easier to maneuver on them then most models.
Suprisingly, the Manhattan Div. is RTS dominated too, however THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE! Quill, 126 St.. and 100 St. will all get Artics, MV will probably get the Orion 7.
I have nothing against the RTS excusivity itself, if newer RTS's were being made, I wouldn't have a problem with it. However here's what I really think!:
Discontinued RTS Production + RTS exclusivity = GARBAGE!
I just saw on the the WB11, 959 running on the B8 route in Brooklyn has hit a delivery truck out in Brooklyn at "Avenue B and Ralph Avenue" Doesn't look that serious. No cracked windsheild. Looks like a CNG bus...
Looked like a semi-head on collision but just a brush on the driver side...
That's a New Flyer. Thank goodness it wasn't serious.
Theres a pic of the acccident in Fridays DN. I believe in the Bklyn section.
Can somebody let me know if this works! Please! Tone
I posted a new photo album at the Transitalk community with various pictures. Check it out guys.
Tone
http://groups.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/newjerseytransit2.msnw
I was restless this morning and took the PATH train to Newark for the first time in a couple of months.
I was surprised to find that the NJT Shoppe will be closing at the end of the month and is selling everything at 50% off. Everything.
Oddly enough, I had been musing on getting a PCC powered car. I bought 2 cars one with sound and the other without. I actually wanted 2 without sound, but they only had 1 without sound left. They still had at least a dozen with sound in stock.
Also a surprise was finding the NJT bus banks at a really good price. I bought a couple of MC9's for $5 a piece.
Someone had bought up a load of books this morning, so there was not a lot left.
Oddly, today was the first day of the sale, and I just stumbled onto it.
[I was surprised to find that the NJT Shoppe will be closing at the end of the month]
That's a shame, but not very surprising. The location on the mezzanine is not the best, as there would be much more pedestrian traffic downstairs on the main floor. I suspect that the Shoppe would have been more successful in Penn Station New York - just my own opinion!
Ah, no wonder all references to the Shop have been removed from the NJ Transit web site.
Is there any Atlas ALP-44 in HO scale how much.Do you know?
It is official that the GRTC will run service to Petersburg starting this Monday on the 6th of this month.
The route # is unknown.
The buses will run under express mode on this route.
Also, there will be service extention to John Tyler Community College which will run under regular service timetable.
Because of this, I will be able to get some photos and/or recordings of the Petersburg Area Transit
(which has the youngest fleet of Flxible Metros in the state)
I'm tryin to get in contact with GRTC to get more info, and will pass along to ya'll as it comes up.
Have a nice day,
Montigue M.
(The Virginian At Large)
WHOA...Petersburg has their own transit system? And they are Flxible Metros?!? YES!!! What year are they, size, power team, etc.? I have GOT to see pics of these babies...and do the WMATA Metro Es count as some of the youngest Flxes in Virginia regular service?
-F.
First off what I didn't see today.
1)NO Neoplan artics in service
2)NO sighting of 2460-63
3)AND NO Alexandria still hasn't gotten bike racks yet.
I started off by seeing 9704 deadheading to Landover, I can't say if this will be permanent. Next I saw something odd on Rhode Island Avenue. It was 8844(with bike rack) running a shuttle route called the B99. I don't know where this shuttle route came from, where it is going, but it was there. Further down the road(actually in Georgetown) saw 4309 and was behind it. It was followed by 2301, route 30 going to the Archives, from Friendship Heights. Why is this
trip using a CNG, I thought it would run to Georgetown or Tenlytown and head back or go east as an H4, oh well. Further downtown, the D6 was diverted to F Street instead of running a block north of Penn Ave.
This was because of the Mayoral Inaguaration. I thought I would see a Neoplan artic parked somewhere around there, for the parade, but yet none to see. Nothing else was seen other than the fact that Royal still hasn't gotten bike racks yet.
Do you think the B99 was the B9 that runs to Colmar Manor and the extra '9' ended up being stuck? I've seen that happen at times where there would be an additional digit here or there. I know there are some "B" routes for school trippers, but no B99 from what I can remember. Maybe it waa doing something for Mayor Williams.
Nothing interesting on my travels today. I did see Orion V 9647 on the 4B, but that was about as exciting as it got! LOL
This "B99" was spotted on Rhode Island Avenue, past Mt. Rainer in Maryland. In Maryland the B9 would be on Bladensburg Road,and all the B9 runs only during rush hour. I am not sure if the B9 was temporarily rerouted, and had the wrong route number, or it was a test bus for something(not likely), or it was on a Landover route and the destination sign was broken. Whatever it was it was an odd sight, what I say when I see a Champion everyday, LOL!!!
I saw video on the 6PM news on Boston's Channel 5 of a bus fire on the Florida Turnpike near Miami, it was an aerial shot from a news chopper of a Coach USA bus, looked like a Van Hool, with fire shooting out the left side of the bus, about in the center section. The report mentioned that 35 high school seniors and their chaperones from Solius (that's what it sounded like) New York were on their senior class trip and were enroute to board a cruise ship in Miami when the fire broke out, they apparently lost all their luggage and cruise ship tickets in the blaze which destroyed the bus, but most importantly no one was hurt and all passengers evacuated safely. The video being shot from the air, I obviously couldn't tell which Coach USA affiliate it was that owned the bus involved. Did anyone else see this video on their local news?
Mark
I did, on Channel 7 (WSVN, Fox affiliate here in South Florida). The fire happened to occur across the road from where I exit the Turnpike on my way home, everything had been cleared by the time I passed by yesterday around 4:30 PM, but there was still a news van from Ch. 7 parked on the shoulder, most likely so the reporter could do a live "stand-up" for the 5:00 PM newscast.
I happened to chat for a few minutes with a driver from Coach USA/Arrow Lines out of their East Hartford CT garage this past Sunday. I did a minicoach charter to the New England Patriots game and his coach was parked next to me. From what he's heard Peter Pan will be getting rid of many of the oldest and tired looking coaches that they will be acquiring from the 5 Coach USA New England companies once the sale is approved and finalized, which is expected to be early to mid Febuary. They will probably be getting new coaches to replace them. He too is curious to see what kind of paint scheme the Foxwoods RTS Shuttles will receive once Peter Pan takes over.
Mark
If the TA cuts service, could the M18 be a victim? That bus has very little ridership, but we folks at City College love it. It's a MUCH better alternative to the slow M100/M101.
Hey, maybe you might see me more often, I am going to attend City College this January...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
I am almost done with the transfer process @ City College...I just need to get my placement test scores, register, adn I am done...
Maybe we can chat sometime while I am taking classes...my e-mail is carlwal@hotmail.com. If it's filled up, you can e-mail me at cleanairbus@yahoo.com.
Thanks
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
If the MTA decides to cease the M18, they should bring back the split M3 service along Morningside Ave like they used to. But not only that, they should name the bus via Convent M3-C and the bus via St Nich. M3-S. Hey they did it with the Q20-A/B. And at the same time, they should do the same with the Q16, the buses via Francis Lewis should be Q16-F and the buses via Utopia should be Q16-U.
(if the pics don't load in the page, just copy and paste the pics URL and put in address window)
I got the runaround from a Metro employee today at Western division. He saw me snapping pics of some Metro-B's and proceeded to "Bombardier" me with various questions: (sorry for the really bad pun:-)
What are you doing? Why are you taking pictures? Lemme see them. What are you going to do with them?
Then he let out a reluctant "OK" and walked off. Is what I am doing such a high crime as this guy made it seem?
Anyways, now that my rant is over, I saw Ride-On 95-5801, an Orion VI. I haven't seen this type of Orion in the Ride-On system for about 3 years! I didnt even know Orion VI's existed in 1995. Naturally I took a pic of it
I also got an interesting pic of a Ride-On Orion V:
Note the lower corner of the passenger side winshield. I forget the name of that thingy (run block?)
Also, would a shot like this be considered "artistic"? It's blurred but I think it's pretty cool
Well, that's it for now.
Yeah, those are run boxes. Apperently, this is not used so drivers and/or maintainence personnels get to play with it. I've seen the following message/words on run boxes :
YO
EASY
FAST
HOPE
USA
ROLL
YOYO
WHAT
LOVE
These run boxes are becoming very interesting to spot :)
VERY artistic rail photo...I like it. Yeah, larger TAs are very funny about taking pics; for all they know, you could be defaming them with the shots, selling them for profit, or worse, plotting evil terrorist schemes. I ran into trouble with that in Richmond back in 1999 and learned a big lesson. The best thing to do is go to a rep from the respective TA, explain that you are a busfan and these are only shots for hobby/enthusiast purposes, and await their approval.
-F.
This evening I was walking near a major intersection in Phoenix noticing a lot of coaches from various companies (Fiesta Bowl perhaps) when one distinctive bus came out. It was an ex-Academy MC-9B bus! The Academy name and logo were blanked out but I could tell because of the big incandescent destination sign. I was too far to see the number, but it was definitely an MC-9B from NJ.
Does anyone know if there are any more of these buses down here in Phoenix?
Does anyone remember what bus this used to be when at NJ Transit? Saw it today when I was walking along Kennedy Blvd in Jersey City...also saw that ex-NYCT RTS that Haley's Express runs up Kennedy Blvd...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
That used to be 3537, they also have a 96 inch bus but I can't tell what unit that was.
Troy
Ah, thanks, Troy!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
The MTA should look into this new bus, IT is 30% lighter then steel framed bus thus allows for a 45ft bus on two axles
http://www.busride.com/2002/09/Letter_from_Europe.asp
It is a NICE bus! There is info and pics available here.
http://www.nabi.hu/en/products_innovation/index_45C-LFW.php
The first ones start express service in Phoenix Arizona in 2003 as suburbans!
Why are so many buses have white as their base color? Back in the day, when you go to a different city, you saw different colors on their transit system. Reds, blues, oranges, and all of the many shades of green, they made each city's transit system unique. Now, with basic white, you have to look for striping or other applications to tell systems apart. Do you like to go back to the 60's-70's when each system had different paint schemes?
Well I agree that the white paint base with stripes is bland at times but its working out fine now. With the models made nowadays, it may not be as attractive as you think it would be, the GM New looks definitely were the best buses when it came to multi color exteriors. For example, put a Orion in the two tone blue MTA colors of the 1970's, it won't really look right compared to the Flxible & GM New looks; which worked out nicely. So a model makes a difference as well.
I disagree. The problem is that so few systems have dared to be creative with paint schemes for newer buses, so we really don't have much to consider.
The only two modern bus models which usually (but not always!) look better in white are the RTS and the Flxible 870/Metro. It's because there is no space between window panels, so any color applied to the body would be hard to appreciate.
The rest of the "modern bus" stock is boxy, sash-windowed flat buses with plenty of room to do something interesting paint-wise. Look, for instance, at the multi-colored Gillig Phantoms and New Flyer D60s in Seattle. Or how about the very newest Neoplans in San Francisco? Even Orion Vs, Flxibles and (gasp!) Nova Classics in Pittsburgh are now sporting colorful and imaginative paint schemes. In my mind, these are all very successful experiments of breaking the scheme mold and leaving the white behind.
At the transit system I work for, we have Gillig low floors and Flxible Metros, and neither of the two versions of our paint scheme contains any trace of white. Our blue-and-gray clad Flxibles are some of the classiest-looking buses anywhere. Our neighboring system barely has a paint scheme at all - entirely white buses except for a blue skirt below the rubrail. Our buses turn a lot more heads than theirs.
Perhaps Old Looks and New Looks were somewhat more conducive to colorful schemes, but bus design is no excuse to drop the creativity when it comes to designing a paint scheme.
[In my mind, these (Seattle, San Francisco, Pittsburgh)are all very successful experiments of breaking the scheme mold and leaving the white behind.]
I haven't been to Orlando, Florida, in a long time, but at one time Lynx down there was the pioneer in using colorful, eye-catching paint schemes that didn't use white. I believe the fellow that introduced colorful buses in Orlando later moved on to Pittsburgh and was involved in the new variety of Pittsburgh paint schemes. I found the variety of schemes in Pittsburgh very nice, regardless of which vehicles they are applied to.
Lynx is great, no 2 buses have the exact same paint scheme (I believe they have over 200 buses).
I have employment papers for Lynx which I plan on submitting in a few more years when I move down to Orlando. I've heard that they will hire anyone almost instantly that worked for NYCT.
I also love the way the Lynx buses look, especially the Grumman Flxibles with the neon underneath attached to the chassis. They are a real eyecatcher at night. The best street to see them is International Drive near the WetnWild water park. They also can be seen running along Kirkman Road near Universal Studios, for all you guys who are as familar with the Orlando area as I am.
BIG AL
What TA are you at? Bet those Flxibles look sweet! Yeah, white Gilligs, New Flyers, etc. are pretty boring. I must say the only bus that really looks OK in white these days is the Thomas SLF as it has black around the windows, not unlike most Flxible Metros. And I HATE when the latter becomes an all-white bus with NO black at all. It kills the lines of a Flx! And white pork chop panels on an RTS? UGH!
-F.
Yeah...New Looks look okay in white as the styling does the rest. As longas you don't overcolor one of those, they look alright. In the early 1980s, we used to have a multicolor Flx New Look here in Roanoke called the "Rainbow Bus" that was a free fare rolling promotion for a local radio station. It sure did look funky when compared to the normal red and white paint scheme with gold stripes!
-F
White seems to be the base color for almost all transportation vehicles, from police cars to 777. Decals are applied in liu of painting. It seems to be a cost cutting way to save a few bucks. Plus in case of a re-sale, the decals are pulled off and you have your basic white again.
Very true...white is a good all-around basic color and par for the course on most buses. Besides, you can add to it and make it interesting. My art teacher told me this in 9th Grade: White is the presence of all colors. But plain white buses are just bland.
-F.
There are two primary reasons why most new buses are painted white now.
1) It is cheaper to use the color white than any other color.
2) the main reason: the color white reflects the sun which actually helps keep the interior of the vehicle cooler in the summertime, which puts less of a strain on the climate control systems. I remember reading a newspaper article back in the '80's which stated, that was the primary reason NYCT chose white for their buses.
BIG AL
The cooling theory is quite true. That is why most buses that are wrapped, other colors, etc. keep white roofs, plus the cost. For one, who looks at the roof of modern buses anyway? You can't see them from curbside! True, from a bridge or what not, it looks tacky, but makes sense. Our new Thomas SLFs are Dark Blue with multicolor striping but have white roofs, as shown by their Thermo-King units.
-F.
To see it,Copy this link.
http://beelinebus.westchestergov.com/english_fare_hearing.htm
And also a story on the fare hike.
http://www.westchestergov.com/transportation/recent_press_releases.htm
I was on metro's website and they don't carry those plain blue metro t -shirts with the white metro logo near the left breast. anyone know where i can get one? W.E.S., 1C/Ballston, Oren, any ideas?
Are they the ones that the mechanics wear? I haven't seen the ones you mentioned. Maybe you can email WMATA and see where you can get them. I honestly have no idea where you can get one of those.
Yea, I am not sure, I have seen them though. They maybe only for WMATA employees, but like 1C Ballston said, email them to find out how to get them, or talk to Oren.
Unless you have very extradordinary connections, you can't get one. They are not for sale.
I went to 23 St today. And to my amazement, I saw with MJQ Stickers 5528 on the M23. I thought that bus was supposed to go to 126 St?
Unless it's there for purposes that we do not know about?
#5528 M23
I saw 5519 on the M86. Must be a change of plans.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
Is it that 126 get screwed again.lol
Yes recently I rode the B44 LTD from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Nostrand/Newkirk Av. When I caught the B8 to go home, I noticed the B44 local stop at Foster Av was moved across the street in front of the McDonalds. Was this done to give B8 drivers a easier time turning on Foster Av or is it something else? Thanks for any info.
The B15 bus stop at Williams and New Lots(Woodhull Hosp bound) is moved across the street. The Hinsdale Street is no longer there. There is also a bus stop at Snediker and New Lots. This is for the construction of the houses that are going up in the area. Also be advised that the B6 bus stop under the New Lots Ave station takes up the whole block of Livonia Ave btwn Ashford and Warwick Sts.
If you do, please post the page. Here's mine:
http://www.transitalk.org/Photos/TLogan/60202/MTA_Nova_9583.jpg
(beautiful)
also here's something I use when I want to laugh:
http://www.transitalk.org/Photos/AMareau/51502/MTA_Nova_9183.jpg
I'm sorry, but I don't know how link the address to this post. Will someone please tell me how do you link the address(meaning being able to "click" directly on it)? Sadly the only command I know how to do is bold.
On a side note to Trevor Logan:
Your photography is f#%^ing artwork!!!! That is one of the best transit pictures I've ever seen, period. I'm really looking forward any updates. Keep up the good work! :)
I did for a while....Someone sent me pics of RTS slopebacks from 3 different (non NY area) companies....Now I use a picture of car R-17 #6688 lined up next to the Hi-V at Branford.....Like to look at something I've driven.
Thanks Ridgewood, I Try!
I currently use a photo on my desktop that will be on TransiTALKs end of January Update!
A WMATA NABI 436 Articulated!
I just completed a update al la 8 minutes ago!
Enjoy!
Trevor Logan
Where else besides your own website can I find bus wallpaper's? I'm interested in putting one up on my own comp.Oh yes Trevor!! You said that you leave Palisades Center at 4:10 on Wednesday's well this Wednesday I'll be there,no doubt about it. You'll know it's me cause I'll be wearing an MTA hat which I wear everytime I go out and a completely white jacket. I'm looking forward to meeting you and riding your bus Wednesday,I know it's gonna be tons of fun. OHHHHH!!! I'm mega excited!
I used to have a Viking as wallpaper. Now I have a Van Hool double articulated transit bus.
I currently have a pic I took of NYBS 1800 at 5th Ave and 60 St.
If anybody wants to see the pic, email me and place in the subject line NYBS 1800 and I'll be happy to send it to you.
#1800 BXM7A
"Will someone please tell me how do you link the address(meaning being able to "click" directly on it)?"
Click Here For Clicking To Links Instructions!
I LOVE using bus pics as wallpaper! In fact, on my last computer, I used one of our Flxible New Looks. Later on, I used a B&W photo of a local Grumman 870, an NCTD Metro rear shot, Baltimore MTA buses, WMATAs, pics of a custom WMATA Flx Metro model that I painted, and one time I even used a pic of my 1:25 scale Gillig Phantom model that I built out of Legos. LOVE those Flxibles at startup and shut down!
-F.
Ive had a lot of internet access problems recently using AOL.
How do you Bustalkers find AOL as an ISP?
It has its ups and downs. More downs than ups, as alot of time if you are writing a long post, it keeps asking you do you want to stay on line and if you are not quick enough and answer, they cut you off. Also along those lines, if writing the same long post, they will cut you off, before you even finish. Another pet peeve I have with aol, is that they sometimes disconnect you claiming "Remote Host Resetting" and sometimes it happens more than once. I once tried Juno, but with no success. I am going to stick with AOL just because, I hate change.
LOL...sounds about right. Yeah, change is good but can be a pain; I hate for everyone else that I have had to move around and had three different e-mail addresses and four residences within the past year. However, feces occurs, and you just have to roll with the punches.
-F.
I find AOL to be more of a POS than an ISP; it ALWAYS shut down on me. Basically, it came with my computer which I bought in 1998, and I paid for it since. I have recently let it go and now use Yahoo via public computers as a cost-saver...I sure do miss IM and the chat rooms though. Who knows, I may return to it one day.
-F.
I was going to dump AOL 4 years ago but yet I am still using it. AOL seems to bump you off now and then. Their browser also gives you a fuzzy view of photos. I am connected to cable now so I don't use AOL as much as I once did.
BTW Fred, you can still sign up for the AOL IM without having to be connected to AOL itself. My friend is on prodigy and has the AOL IM.
Nice...I'll look into it. Thanks!
-F.
A TransiTALK Update!
Introducing the first update to TransiTALK of 2003 which includes photos from:
Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority
Montgomery County Transit's Ride On
Triboro Coach Corporation
PACE Bus
Fort Worth Transit
MTA Long Island Railroad
There is also Three New Transit Flicks (Movie Shorts) and Four New Transit Sounds.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
What streets do the Green, Jamaica, Queens Surface and Triboro buses take when exiting the Queens-Midtown Tunnel?
Also, do some of the routes use cross streets other than 34th? When I visited NYC earlier this week, I was standing at the northwest corner of 34 St. and 3rd Ave., and while I saw some Green and Triboro buses on 34th, I also noticed what looked like two westbound Queens Surface buses crossing 3rd Ave to the north (looked like on 35th St., but I'm not sure).
Jim D.
[do some of the routes use cross streets other than 34th?]
I haven't checked the timetables, but my observation is that most of the private express buses from Queens carrying passengers use 34th Street to 6th Avenue (I am not sure whether the 3rd Avenue buses use 34th Street - I wouldn't think so). However, many out of service buses deadheading to 6th Avenue (particularly Queens Surface buses) use some of the one-way westbound streets to get from the Tunnel to 6th Avenue. 34th Street westbound, between 5th and 6th Avenues, is one of the most congested streets in Manhattan, so out of service buses may prefer to avoid it. (The three separate cycles on the traffic lights at 6th/Broadway at 34th Street are probably responsible for all that traffic on 34th Street.)
Sometimes in service QSC Buses(With passengers) uses 35 St to 6th Ave after the Tunnel. I have rode a few buses at QSC went on the 35 St Routeing.
BTW All QSC Express Buses that have stops on 34 St stop at these stops.3 Ave,Park Ave,and Madison Ave. All of these stops are Drop Off only stops so makeing use of 35 St sometimes makes sence.
On occasion when I need to take a Ride On bus I almost always purposely avoid the Gilligs as I just do not care for those buses. However, earlier today I rode Ride On's '99 Gillig 5414. I know that Ride On seems to prefers the Voith transmission over the Allison tranny. While I was on board Gillig 5414 I noticed that the tranny seemed to be an Allison. Can anyone here confirm whether Ride On's '99 Gillig Phantoms do indeed have Allison transmissions?
Also for W.E.S., 1C/Ballston, WMATAGMOGAH... I may be mistaken, but yesterday while driving in Georgetown I thought I saw Orion V, #4213 on the G2! Like I said... I could be mistaken because I was in traffic and I couldn't get a good look nor did I see the block number.
Wayne
They indeed do have Allison transmission for some reason. If you pay attention, you can hear the transmission shift MORE than 2 times. I guess this is what makes the Cummins on the 1999 Phantoms much more faster and sound different from the other Cummins.
Not much on transmissions, but you most likely not mistaken as 4212 is also running out of Northern along with 4213 and 4214. 4210 and 4211 are running out of Four Mile Run, along with ex-Northern 4287-4292 or 93. 4210-14 began their careers at Southern. 4200-4209 and 4215-4224 are still running out of Southern.
When does or when did the new pick go into effect for Queens Division??
[When does or when did the new pick go into effect for Queens Division??]
Sunday, January 19.
Picking started Monday, January 6th, effective Sunday, January 19th.
It has been like this for the past 2 Weeks now. Now at a unknown date a few OrionV CNG Suburbans from Triboro Coach would come in and help eaze the shortage.
I was told this by a QSC B/O via AOL
I saw one QSC Classic on 57th St. last Monday - wasn't able to get a picture of it, unfortunately. :(
JD
Well. There's only like about a good amount of them still running so you won't see much MCI Classics for sometime
Goodbye JFK Flyer. The Route was a nice route but lacked ridership and PA of NY NJ just had to stopped the funding. It's nice haveing this route while we can.
GOODBYE JFK FLYER :(
Yep,very last one left Hempstead at 10PM and the same bus is due at Rockville Center in 20mins and arrive at Hempstead at midnight then.... should we hold a proper burial or just let it die without remorse?
I once heard, maybe even here, that the drivers for this route were scabs, and other LIB drivers were not on speaking terms with them.
I heard they were part timers.
On a more uplifting note, I saw an N43 tonight. Apparently service onthis route is 7 days -- so there will finally be decent north/south service on Uniondale Avenue.
Of course, the bus I saw was idling next to the Nassau Coliseum, dark with flashers on. Since there was almost no notice given about this service (even the schedule link on the website is still a dead link), I guess this was just an empty bus that had gotten ahead of schedule.
The route appears to mirror either the N40 or N41 up Nassau Road and then turns onto Uniondale Avenue to match the N45. After Nassau Community College, the route diverges from the N45 and takes the road one block north of Stewart (I forget the name, but it's the one that goes by Target) into Roosevelt Field.
CG
Zeckendorf Blvd. is the road you are thinking of.
No. Zeckendorf runs from Old Country Road down to the road I was thinking of. I looked it up on a map -- the street I was talking about is called "Corporate Drive".
Apparently the N43 comes out of Nassau Community, then goes on "Avenue C", "Merchants Concourse" and then "Corporate Drive".
CG
Yes, you are correct. Targets address is on Corporate. Zeckendorf makes that 90-degree turn at Target and Corporate continues to Merrick Ave.
I did not get an answer to this question when I first posted it, but I really would like to hear what the opnion is on this topic:
Last Thursday, I got the runaround from a Metro employee at Western division. He saw me snapping pics of some Metro-B's and proceeded to "Bombardier" me with various questions: (sorry for the really bad pun:-)
What are you doing? Why are you taking pictures? Lemme see them. What are you going to do with them?
Then he let out a reluctant "OK" and walked off. Is what I am doing such a high crime as this guy made it seem? Can one get arrested for this?
Thanks for reading
With all the high security crap thats been going on since 9/11/01,no one can even take picture's anymore of buses or trains cause someone is gonna think your a terroist and arrest you or in your case,question you like there's no tommorow.To me,it's really way past ridiculous already.They gotta tone it down abit.It's truly pathetic. We railfans love to take pictures of great and interesting finding's and to be denied of doing so just because of one fatal day...c'mon give me a break.
Yeah this aint China.....yet!
Yeah. YOU wish it was China....8-)
Peace.
ANDEE
Not that I know of. There is such law that I know of. I know there are places, you definitely cannot take pics at, and that would be the Pentagon(for obvious reasons). He shouldn't have given you flack for taking pics, it wasn't like you were actually in the yard taking pics, just outside of it. Though he shouldn't have given you flack, from his perspective he have had a reason, with all that is going on after 9/11. He might have thought you were taking pics for other reasons other than the enjoyment of watching buses. I did once take pics at Silver Spring and a WMATA employee did give me a look, but didn't say anything to me.
The general public just aren't aware of us or what we do. Once I was taking a picture of a Gillig dumping a load of people off and lady who was getting off b%^tched at me. WHY U TAKE PICTURE OF ME! YOU TAKE PICTURE WHERE I GO?!
You're in the DC Metropolitan Area...the area that scared government officials work in...lots of them. If you want to take pictures of Metro Bs, simply ASK for a photo opportunity. Who knows? You may have a run of the garage. Don't risk yourself getting into trouble over it because they misunderstand you...YOU will still be screwed even if THEY get it wrong.
It shouldn't be a crime, but did you read about the INS wanting to track travelers now? Ever seen "Minority Report"? Most of that technology exists right now. All you need are the paranoid government officials...gee, guess what we have now? :(
There is simply no "person" to ask. There are transit officials and bus operators roaming everywhere. If I ask a station manager for permission, bus operators, ground keepers, and passengers would still be suspecting.
After 9/11/01 people in the transportation industry are a lot more paranoid about security than before. Also whenever some really sensitive event occurs, the security is just so jacked, that anyone doing anything remotely suspicious is suspect even though it could be totally innocent. It happened to me back here in Philly in 2000 during the GOP convention. A SEPTA cop got a little pissy with me at the 15th st El station because I wanted to take a pic of the El trains. You see, the next week, there were no cops there and I took all the pics I wanted. But during that week, they were watching you like a hawk. Now in your situation, considering where you are at, almost everything in the DC area will be under tight security because of 9/11. Metro employees are only doing what management wants them to do. So if I were you, I'd stay away from the garages, and take my bus pics on the public streets.
While its not a law we do detain < not arrest> every person who is caught using a camcorder or snapping a picture on Mta propery ( Bridges & Tunnels ).
We then run their license and name thru the NYSPIN computer to make sure they arent on the FBI list and also have no warrants . We also erase any video we deem sensitive. The funny thing about it is we expect the tourists to see the one little sign we have on approaches that reads "Use of camcorders prohibited " . To date authority wide we have turned over about 12 persons who were wanted by the FBI for information about 9/11.Most of em were caught at the Tunnels .
If I'm in a car, and I have a digital camera, and I'm going over a bridge, and I take a few quick pictures, how on earth would anybody outside my car know?
No one probably would.
In my case , we get em when they hit the Tollbooths . Usually the passenger who took the pics , still has the camera on his or her lap.
our patrols have also caught some at night when the flashes get em noticed .
I agree - I would not take photographs around any garages or yards without asking permission first. Otherwise, it depends on the city. Some TA's (notably MBTA in Boston) will require you to have a photo permit to take photographs at stations. There should never be any issue with taking pictures on a public street - I will not allow any bus drivers to attempt to bully me on that issue.
While I agree with some posters here that many officials have gone overboard about security, I also feel that any transit agency that allows people to simply wander in off the street and tresspass without being questioned is asking for trouble.
Of course, if a transit vehicle is used in a future attack, all bets are off. I hope and pray that day never comes.
JD
>>>>Then he let out a reluctant "OK" and walked off.<<<<
You should be very happy with that. IMHO.
Peace,
ANDEE
Started at 157St by taking Orion #6057 on the Bx6 to Melrose Av and 161St.When I got there,Orion #417 was behind us and I never noticed it during the entire trip.Anyway,then I took New Flyer Artic #5473 on the Bx2 to Mott Haven where I caught the Bx32 for the very first time,
an RTS #9133 which I took to Jerome and Burnside Avs.There I hopped on a 4 train to Bedford Pk to see where the Bee-Line 20 bus stopped.I thought it was a big walk I needed to do but it stops right there in front of the subway entrance,much to my convience.
From there I went back to Fordham Rd where I hung out for awhile then took the D train to 205St and caught the Bx16,RTS #9479 to Dyre Av and hopped on a R142 5 train.All 5 trains were R142 and they ended at 149St-G.C. because of a G.O.There were 8 trains running back and forth today on the 5 and at least 1 or 2 R142A's on the 4 in the Bronx section and 1 R142A on the Manhattan/Brooklyn section of the 4.
Normally I don't do this but I figured,what the heck? I'm gonna do a Bee-Line bus trip on Monday and going to the Palisades Center Mall on Wednesday to catch a ride with Trevor Logan.I'll post here how each went and what I did as well.
Here in SEPTA-land the Route L bus is supposed to run 24/7 between Olney Terminal and Plymouth Meeting Mall. Now when you read the schedule, there's something very weird, A 5 1/2 HOUR GAP between 7:50 pm on Sunday, and 2:30 am on Monday Morning on buses leaving Plymouth Meeting Mall.(6:50 pm Sunday and 1:39am Monday leaving Olney Term.) My question is this, Why? And another question is also, are there other transit systems with such strange scheduling?
Mark,
I think this schedule is weird on Sundays because the Mall closes at 6pm.....and with the light amount of mall traffic....there may not be much demand for overnight service to the mall on sunday.
I'm guessing that SEPTA must be really in tune to employee schedules at the mall becuase the level of overnight service is pretty strong overnights monday-saturday.
Apprantly the fareboxes that contain the dollor slot, the coin dispenser and the metrocard swiper are already in storage, and some busses, I dont know which already have the new fareboxes installed, but not with the metrocard swiping activated. I believe they are discussing how the money will be distributed among the MTA and Bee-Line systems. The metrocard machines on the bee-line busses are quite different from the ones on the MTA- busses. Instead of having the machine grab the card and read it and give it back, because of, its not like the subway where you swipe across with the dollar machine and the coin collectors right next to it. Soon as an MTA and Bee Line Rider the metrocard is an added welcome, how soon is anyones guess though, but they are ready to go it seems.
It must be like the newer GFI Farebox like this one.
http://www.gfigenfare.com/odyssey1.htm
This flick was shown on Bravo Channel last night. It stars Robin Williams as a used car salesman. It was filmed at an abandoned car dealership on Northern Blvd west of Steinway Street. In one scene Robin Williams is getting a cup of coffee and speaking to a fellow employee. If you look at the background E/B on Northern is a QSC RTS and then W/B a QSC fishbowl with the blacked-out windows. Don't know if a DVD would be able to show the bus numbers.
To all,
I have been out of town for the past week almost. I had been having trouble with my e-mail account prior to my departure. If you attempted to send me any e-mail and got it bounced back to you, please try to resend it ASAP, especially WRP stuff! There is no way I can read every message I missed. I will attempt to respond to all my e-mail as quickly as possible upon my return.
Happy new year to you all!
Oren H.
www.orenstransitpage.com
FYI: The e-mail address is oren@orenstransitpage.com if you don't have it readily available.
I can tell you as fact, that there are no MetroCard Fareboxes in storage or on any Bee-Line Buses. I was on the Liberty Lines Transit property this weekend and there was only the current fareboxes and no talk whatsoever of the Metrocard fareboxes.
The only talk was regarding a local newspaper article about an upcoming public hearing (Janyary 23rd) about an across the board fare hike.
I don't mean to be against you in this BUT, there was talks of Bee Line accepting MetroCard this year. It would make perfect sense.
How my question to you is...
1) Did you check every room at the 475 Facility?
2) Did you walk in every bus?
3) Have you talked with anyone at 475 on this subject specifically?
Again, this is not a negative posting towards you so please don't take it as such.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Dear Sir:
In answer to your questions
1. NO, ONLY THE FARE BOX REPAIR & STORAGE ROOM. THERE ARE ONLY REGULAR BOXES IN THIS AREA. SECURITY WOULD NOT PERMIT THEM IN ANY AND ALL ROOMS AT THE 475 OR VALHALLA FACILITY.
2.NO, BUT I DID SPEAK TO THE V.P. OF MAINTENANCE TODAY (MONDAY). AND HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY METROCARD FB's COMING OR OTHERWISE,
3. I EVEN SPOKE TO THE OPERATIONS MANAGER AT WCDOT. HE CONFIRMED THAT THERE ARE NO NEW FB's ON BUSES OR ON THE PROPERTY. HOWEVER HE DID ADMIT THAT THERE IS FREQUENT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT BRINGING THEM TO THE BEE-LINE, BUT THERE IS NO DEFINITE DATE OR PLAN OR DEADLINE FOR THIS PROJECT.
Now permit me some questions:
1. Where do you recieve your information about these FB's,and its status in Westchester?
2. Did you verify your information, before posting it, with anyone in WCDOT or LLT? Are your sources reliable? Youy are a well respected menmber in the industry, and I'm surprised that you posted such info.
3. Whenevder this does become a reality, I will be advised reasonably
quickly. I am unable to elaborate on this amtter, but trust me, I will know pretty quickly.
Regards, & Happy New Year
Hey! Don't question Trevor!
1) Actually I got my information about the fareboxes in a Westchester Newspaper article, which was also comfirmed by a few Liberty Lines employees. Now like you said and I think I stated in a my previous e-mail, a date IS unknown.
2) I Trust my sources, they are usually never wrong. I have learned in this industry that upper management will sometimes hide information because they do not want preview information to be released. In today's world that is next to impossible. Glad to know that I'm a respected person in this industry, I didn't know that.
3) The same goes for me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I would put it a different way.
1st Westchester would want to do it. This involves commiting to the COST to replace all the existing fareboxes & equipment in the depots. This is not SMALL matter.
2nd you need to talk to the MTA. You need to negotiate with them about how the MC money is processed. Will they permit Westchester to set up retail outlets to sell MCs, etc. Hoiw does Westchester get the MC dollars from cards sold in NYC, etc.
3rd you have to decide what box to order.
4th you have to get on the vendors back order list
5th you have to make what ever changes required at you depots
At about #4 or #5 the maintenance/local folks find out about this.
It's called "I Couldn't Resist This Off Topic Post". It concerns my feelings about Sunday`s sporting events.
What is your favorite bus model used by either MaBSTOA and/or NYCTA?
You can choose from past and present models.
My personal choice... actually three models...
1) The ex-Fifth Avenue Coach TDH 5106s with the protruding sign box
2) The TDH 4510s (in the two tone green scheme)
3) The TDH 5303s with billboard signs and a/c
>>>1) The ex-Fifth Avenue Coach TDH 5106s with the protruding sign box <<<
I always had a fondness for these, don't know why though.
What was the reason for the protruding sign box any way?
Peace,
ANDEE
My understanding is that the protruding sign box contained fluorescent lighting equipment.
Can anyone verify this?
Lets take it a step further...
Remember the anodized aluminum door the driver had to separate him from the passengers? The fare box (Fifth Avenue Coach used Grants; Surface Transit used Johnson type D) was inside the driver's "compartment". Under MaBSTOA, these doors were removed.
I guess our tastes are pretty much the same, J.L.!! Same three choices for me!
Three Favorites Are:
1) The 1980 Grumman 870
2) The 1994 TMC RTS-06 (8600-8704)
3) The New Flyer C40LF
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
The 1972 GMC Fishbowls (6000/6100 series), first NYCTA buses painted in the 2-tone blue color scheme.
Mine, too! The low 6200s ran out of Flushing, later Stengel. Rode them to high school 1974 through '77, then to community college '77 and '78. The interior and exterior design were beautiful, and those marine-blue seats were probably my favorite color. Around early '77 I started riding buses in other boroughs and was happy to see them running on Fresh Pond, Ulmer,(I think) Flatbush and (maybe) Crosstown routes.
MABSTOA seemed to have their own line of early 70's Fishbowls numbered in the 4700 through 4900s. I remember seeing them on routes coming out of the old West Farms depot.
Another thing I liked about the 6000s was the blue destination signs (as opposed to the black ones on the older buses), also I believe thse were the first to have the borough designation on the route (i. e. "B47 Prospect Park" instead of "47 to Prospect Park" that was on the older signs.)
Those buses at MABSTOA were actually 4500-4505, 4800-4919.
Wayne
my favorite have to be the following:
1-Grumman 870
2-Orion V
3-Flixible(the 7500's and 9000's)
And mine are:
(1) 7xxx and 9xxx Flxibles in two-blue paint scheme..
(2) Grumman 870s
(3) 1960s Flxibles in green and silver scheme.
Did the latter have Bus-O-Ramas?
-F.
The only NYCT/OA new look Flxible to have Busoramas was #7753. Also Grumman Flx #631 had them as well.
None of NYCTA Flxibles had Bus-O-Ramas except...
7753 - '75 Flxible 53102-6-1
631 - '80 Grumman Flxible 870
Wayne
Thanks Wayne! I assume the 75 Flxibles had the "Two Blue" paint scheme as most 70s NYCTA orders did? And what a funky sight the 631 was...I saw a pic of it. Very Euro-looking with the Batwings!
-F.
T6H5309A/5310A - the only New Look models GMC ever produced specifically for one operator (there were LOTS of exclusive Old Looks).
My favorite NYCTA buses were the TDH-5303/AC, T6H-5309A/10A and the Grumman Flxible 870. Honorable mention goes to the '77 Flxible (9000-9309).
I've merely tolerated the RTS and I think I was happy to see the Orion V's arrive because I was tired of seeing the RTS.
Wayne
Good choices. I for one like the RTS for its rounded looks...and it is just a staple of NYC transit, much like Fishbowls once were.
-F.
The GM New looks is my all time favorite bus in New York City, I like them best when they were Blitzed just attractive, strong buses. NO other bus could match the living length of these buses; some served NYC streets for 30 years.
*Spit takes*
Excuse me? The only thing keeping the RTS out of the running are lame ADA laws, a buying spree for NYCT of crappy Orions, and new technology progressing at a far more rapid rate than it was in the 70's. Yet, plenty of the 1981.1982 RTS soldier on and a few 1984 and 85 buses run without rehabilitation.
Relax, calm down. We'd probably still have the New look Fixibles & would have been Blitzed just like the GM's were and there probably wouldn't have been as much RTS's ordered, the Orions wouldn't be as prevalent as now and so on. The RTS has proved itself, I won't deny that but some New looks DID last 30 years, which is unheard of for a bus. I still feel the 1984 & 1985 RTS's were scrapped a few years too early.
New Look Flxibles could barely last 12 years, especially the rusting hulks that were the 9000 series. Why do you think most of them were gone between '93-'95? Only in rare instances has a Flx New Look outlasted a GM New Look.
In general Flxibles in NYC indeed haven't had very long lives, but their 1969 111CC-D51 (and even the FD series, 5000-5125, 5600-5790) sure lasted a long time in NYC. Also WMATA's new look Flxibles which were very similar to NYCTA's '77 Flxibles 9000-9309 were around right up til. 1999/2000.
Wayne
it would have been nice to have the Hino bus and the doubledecker buses still in service(i remember the doubledecker bus running on the M1, and riding on it-even begging my dad if we could ride it up to 86th street)-could the doubledecker buses return to local service if possible in manhattan?
I think the double deckers were kind of doomed. I remember when I was young hearing a news report that did them in. Very simply put, they were too tall for Manhattan streets with the roof intact; being unable to navigate the lanes closest to the curbs since they could not clear the height of the traffic signals.
Of course memory being what it is, I could be wrong, but somehow this stands out in my mind.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
[I think the double deckers were kind of doomed. I remember when I was young hearing a news report that did them in. Very simply put, they were too tall for Manhattan streets with the roof intact; being unable to navigate the lanes closest to the curbs since they could not clear the height of the traffic signals.]
My recollection is that, prior to the arrival of the double-deckers, the City relocated all lights, etc., along the M4 and M5 routes so the double-deckers wouldn't hit anything. I don't remember any lane restrictions.
Those double-deckers had problems with their climate control system.
I forget which set was renumbered to 7205-7299 and the upper 7300's and 7400's, the 4000 series Flxible new looks, the 5000 series or a combination of both. Thanx for your help.
4000 and 5000 series? Never heard of those. What vintage were these Flxibles?
-F.
No these are fleet #'s in the NYCTA and I was wondering if these were the Flxible New looks that got re#'d into the 7200's, upper 7300's-7400's.
NYC 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51 new look renumbers:
TA 4000-4200 became something like 7205-7299.
OA 4600-4727 became something like 7362-7469.
*Note: Not all buses in that fleet were renumbered due to retirement, scrap, etc.
I didn't see Wayne Johnson's more accurate post, see BusTalk 62706.
Thanks anyway, B53 Rich.
It was the 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51 (TA 4000-4202, OA 4600-4727) that were renumbered into the 7000 series (7205-7299, 7362-7499).
Wayne
I didn't remember the exact #'s so I just wanted to know. Thanks for the info Wayne.
Not a problem... always glad to help:-).
Wayne
New Look Flxibles could barely last 12 years
Boston's MBTA had New Look Flxibles that ran for 18 to 20 years.
JD
See? Told ya so!
-F.
Alright now...stepping on toes here! We had Fishbowls here that were retired after 10 years, in favor of new Grumman 870s that were not retired for another 15. And those went mostly to Niagara Falls, where they are still running strong! And the Flx New Looks we got right before those lasted 18 years before retirement...from there, they served UVa for 5 more years. And in another town close by, there were 23-year-old Flx New Looks doing trippers, while Flx Metros in the same fleet are doing the same to this very day...and they are 3 years older than the RTS fleet that was sold off a year ago!
Maybe it's all about maintenance, etc., but I've seen Flxes outlast their GM counterparts. But I like the latter buses as well!
-F.
Yow...they already scrapped the 84s and 85s? But what about the 1981-83? And yes, the Flxibles should have been rehabbed to make a more diverse fleet. That's what NYC is all about; diversity.
-F.
Yup, they scrapped a majority of the 84's and 85's. The '81/'82 Remans are still soldering on after 21-22 years on the road and all the non reman 1981's and 1982's are reitred now and all the 1983's were gone since late 2001. The RTS "revoultion" and the 1993 Orions basically barred any chance of the Flxible New looks getting a heavy overhaul like the GM's did and sent them to the scrapper.
Don't forget the rampant rusting and deterioration of the Flx New Look bodies either. I'm sure that had something to do with it.
Yea, the bodies may have been deteriorating and probably was a contributor to their retirement but it wasn't that bad.
True...was it the rust around the rear window and hind quarters? If so, that is easily taken care of and just a minor problem. If we were talking frame assemblies rusting through or perhaps flakes of lower body flying off, I could see where they would be a hassle.
-F.
Are you talking about the Flx newlooks of NYC? I hope not because I can assure you those buses, especially the later ones built in the '70's were not rusting out. Granted I know the buses had other problems and overall were not as rugged as their GMC counterparts, but rust was not a problem with the Flxibles.
BIG AL
I heard from this board no less, and from another board that a major problem of the latter Flx. New Looks were rampant rusting and corrosion problems. In fact, the last Flx. New Look ever built could not be saved because it basically rusted apart.
Who in the world told you that? There was no rust on those 9000 series Flxibles, at least none that could be seen. I especially know the last bunch of Flxibles, those were my favorites, and there was not a speck of rust. In fact, I have a picture of one of the 9200s after it was retired and there is no rust on it. In fact, I'll even go as far as E-mailing you the picture and you be the judge. Also, if you check Trevor's site, he has plenty of pictures of those Flxibles. Please look at them and tell me if you find one with rust on it.
I know you don't live in NY and don't have any experience with them, so please don't believe the stories of somebody who had a thing against the Flxibles and decided to make false rumors about them.
BIG AL
I was thinking the same thing as I remember riding my first one (9285, KB, Bx2) when they were brand spanking new. ...And of course I remember when they were on their way out and I never saw any rust on them. I'd bet that they went when they did because because they didn't have W/C lifts.
Wayne
This is very true; that is why many places are retiring their still-modern looking 1980s Flxible and RTS fleets. In fact, rumor has it that Cleveland RTA will surplus their 1989 RTS models for that very reason, as 275 NABI Low Floors just rolled into regular service. Fortunately, their 1988 Flxible Metros have lifts, so they will stay.
-F.
Amen. I grew up with these and they are may favorite bus of all time; while I stand by them, I am honest about what I have seen on examples in our vicinity. However, I have not seen the usual rear quarter rust on any pics of the 9000s that I have ever seen.
-F.
When you say you are honest about what you have seen on examples in your community, what do you mean by that? Have you seen many Flxibles with rust, because I have never seen any. Also, if you have, are you referring to the rust as of today, or when these buses were in service 5 - 10 years ago? There is a difference. Buses that are laying around out of service, just like an un-used automobile probably would rust out fairly quickly, but as long as the Flxibles were in service, there was no rust on any of them, including I would bet the one's by you, down in Virginia.
BIG AL
Ok, you've got me there. The Flxes I saw with rust are here within my community, and each one sat for a period of time. One sat outside for a few months while out of service in surplus until we brought it to our museum, and had minor rust along the body surface. Also, our other New Look sat in a museum outside from 1989 to 2000, just rotting away and being neglected. Thankfully, we came to the rescue. I guess sitting vs. continuous use is what makes the difference in rust. Thank you for correcting me on this subject.
-F.
Yes my friend, that is a HUGH difference, especially if you have a tarp of some other type of cover on the vehicle, which traps in the moisture and just keeps feeding the rust. Every vehicle on the planet will begin to rust out when it sits for an extended duration, or even a short duration.
Now, I hope RTS-2150 reads these posts and get's this rusting notion out of his head about the Flxibles.
BIG AL
*Sigh* I have read these posts, yet, I have read other posts on the OMOT board about the Flx New Looks having severe rusting problems. I don't just make this stuff up. I understand you like Flx and all, but don't use that as a valid reason to discredit me. I like the RTS, yet I don't say that the driver's theories on the RTS driver's area is a bunch of baloney based on the fact that none of the drivers here complained about it.
2150, when did I ever discredit you? I just have the feeling you have the wrong idea about the Flxible. It is really not your fault as I know you were not around when the Flxible Newlooks were running in their prime.
I know you are very knoledgeable about buses and especially the RTS, buses that you have become familiar with. But are you as familiar with the GMC fishbowls?
I don't know how much you ever became familiar with Newlooks in general, but as somebody who is a living witness to their lifespan, I can tell you that the Flxibles were alot smoother running and had much better acceleration than their GMC counterparts. Often the best GMC newlooks I rode were very slow, a character trait which seems to have been carried over into the RTS as any operator will tell you that the RTS's in general are probably the slowest buses on the market right now.
The operators compartment in the Flxibles were also alot nicer and stylish than the GMC's, another problem inherited by the RTS's which are a virtual nightmare for most bus operators.
Another point, Flxibles were the very first bus which introduced the kneeling feature, something unheard of on a GMC.
But I won't blast GMC either because I know they built very rugged and sturdy buses which is what ultimately led to their staying in service longer with NYCT, another character trait with the RTS's. Flxibles had their share of problems such as suspensions which broke down quite a bit, the same suspension which gave them their air-like smooth ride which so many of us Flxible fans enjoyed.
If I had to really give you an honest opinion as to which bus was actually better, I would say it was equal between the Flxible and the GMC. I am one of the people who liked the Flxible better because of the looks and the feel of the bus. If you like the GMC better that is your opinion. But don't take it for granted the the GMC was the more superior bus of that time period based on what you have heard on other boards, because it simply was not. Both buses had their good points and bad...
BIG AL
Fare enough. I'll concede to your wisdom and experience.
Let me tell you a story. I believe my first bus fan moment ever came when I was about five or six. I remember living in "the hood" and we lived by a main throughfare, named Jensen Drive. Well, four routes used to run down the street, the 3, 4, 153 (later the 57) and the 154 (later the 54 in it's numerous incarnations). They of course used RTS, Flxible Metros, and the Grumman 870s, along with an occasional Ikarus and the ULTRA RARE Mercedes-Benz.
I didn't like the RTS very much. It was very common and could be seen all year round, while the Flxibles however were a more rare treat. Seemingly seasonal, showing up generally during the school year. I remember only liking the RTS for the screaming sound it made as it raced down Jensen. Nothing could match it, except the 1600 series Grumman Flxible 870's.
I remember one day I was standing in the yard, looking at the park that sits on the corner. Suddenly I heard a bus approaching, it sounded like an RTS, but had more of a whiny pitch that pulsated as it accelerated and a discreet base groove that did the same. It sped by the corner, it was #1676 I believe and it let out some air in the most beautiful sound I ever heard. It was "cute." Like the sneeze of an elf or other fairy tale creature. Then it plied under the rail bridge and you could it hear it slow down as it got to Bennington. It was then on that I realized I liked buses.
I really didn't get into RTS until the late 90's. Around 1997 in fact. It was their sound I fell in love with again, this time the DEEP bass groove some of them developed that shook the windows due to their age. It wasn't really after the last of the 870's were retired that I fell head over heels for the RTS. But it was really no going back after that, though they were never really my official favorite bus until late 2001.
If you wanna hear more about the Houston Flxibles, I realize I do have alot of fond memories of them.
I love hearing all stories about buses, Flxibles and GMC's alike. I have alot of fond memories myself, especially when riding them in snowstorms. I can recall the Flxibles being all over the road, sliding in one direction or the other while the GMCs did seem to do a little better. I also remember burning my *ss quite a few times while sitting over the engine in the older GMC's just as I remember the front sign roll falling out and running down the isle in one of the Flxibles.
I can tell you good and bad stories about both buses, recollected from 39 years of being a passenger to finally being an operator.
BIG AL
Well, let me tell you about some of the Flxibles....
-The Grumman 870 1600 series were my favorite buses for quite awhile after I had rediscovered them in 1996/97 after a batch had been transferred over to my new side of town. There numbers were now down to about 40 from their high of 100. But they were quite visible nevertheless as they were a staple on the 65 and 2 lines which ran alot of buses all day long. A couple had survived from my youth including 1676 (the speeding Flx in my previous post) and another one I was even more fond of 1668, which was now sporting a "new" elongated exhaust pipe most likely snatched from sister bus 1679 (which I have a mini story on). Anyway, the first Flx I remember riding during the resurgence was 1675. It was a rattle trap. I set at the front of the bus where it was even worse. And to believe, I used to call these "the quiet buses." Yet, after I got off, I was hooked. I would have to ride the 1600's more often. For some odd reason though, I would see many a 1600, but would be picky about which one to ride. Somehow I thought these buses would be around forever. Well, they weren't. However, I did get a farewell ride on 1668, coming full circle in my opinion. The last 1600 bus I rode was #1607. I opened the window so I could hear the roar of the 8v71N engine and relaxed. Unfortuantely the window got stuck. Oh well.
-The last 1600 I saw was #1685. It had sunk to it's lowest point, an employee tripper, a task which at the time was handed to the oldest buses. It rattled, some of it which sounded like a metallic piece was falling off, it's panels swung in the wind, it's destination sign was garbled, it's suspension bouncing the bus this way and that, it's stubby exhaust pipe, once gleaming now beginning to blacken, yet it had dignity on it's usually miserable face. I knew it was the end, yet they had lived a long and fruitful life. The so called "dogs" of the fleet hanging tough with the "cadillacs" known as the RTS on THEIR routes, the 2 and the 65, long and crowded. In base service, not just as trippers. It's still sad thinkog of old 1685, closing the era of the Grummans, doing an employee tripper, yet still holding onto it's dignity it's brethren may have been stripped of across the country.
R.I.P 1685
I'll take the original question literally and suggest this applies to all buses that operated regularly in NYC.
Does anyone here recall the old "Pelham Parkway Express" service that was taken over by Liberty Lines some time back in the '70's?
I recall that prior to L/L taking them over, they had a small fleet of Flxibles and I wonder what ever happened to them.
If we're considering appearence - those buses were at the top. They had a white, gold, black and red paint scheme with reclining seats and individualized reading lights - probably good for charter trips and very comfortable for passengers. These were among my favorites.
Al, you're fighting a losing cause with a know-it-all 17-year-old who has no hard knowledge about buses or operations. It's true, they will rust if under a tarp (you have to elevate the tarp to provide air flow, but that's not the answer - a garage is), and, yes, they must be run to get rid of both exterior and interior rust, to keep the engine bus expecially the transmission free, and last, but not least, to proudly show your antique vehicle to others. You should see the looks and comments at red lights on the road that Flx 699 gets - especially when they note the historical plates.
I'm sure you get alot of looks with that baby. Since your bus is a 1970, I take it that would be the equivalent to the NYCTA 4000 series flxible.
BIG AL
Actually, if you are referring to the 589 from Akron Metro at OMOT, that was mostly due to lack of storage space...they are hurting on that as of late, and told me they had no choice. I was shocked to hear of this, and hope someone saved it along the way.
-F.
Really? Then NYC must have taken better care of theirs than I thought. However, I have heard on this board that in the late 70s and early 80s, maintenance was lackluster, which would be a major contributor as this was the heyday of those coaches.
-F.
Yeah...rust was a big problem with those. I helped restore one, so believe me, I know. If only replacement body panels were widespread.
-F.
That's terrible...those Flxes could still be running today if not for the RTS revolution and the Orions. Oh well.
-F.
Those Flxibles would NOT, I repeat, WOULD NOT, be running today. ADA and EPA laws would have forced them into oblivion along with their less than stellar durability anyway. This ain't Canada. An average bus like the Flx New Look isn't really destined to last longer than 13-15 years on average. WMATA was a nice exception though. Too bad more people didn't take advantage of that. Now all you can do is wax poetic about a bus whose time has LONG passed.
Well, thank you for your attempt to cut me down so low that I have to untie my shoes to take a leak, but it did NOT work. :) I still love those old buses and stand by them regardless. However, you do have a good point about ADA compliance; however, wouldn't it have been cheaper to simply retrofit them with lifts as opposed to a new bus?
Oh yes...and I know of a TA where some lasted 25 years and were just retired last year...with plenty of life left in them. :) Semper Fi!
-F.
Yes, well big TA's didn't keep the buses that long, sans WMATA. While it was very common for New Looks to outlast younger generations of buses, the Flx New Looks were relegated to the basic sidekick role of their decendants, the Flxible Metro.
And it was no means to cut you down. Just saying the Flx New Looks would never have lasted until now in NYC.
Absolutely wrong again, RTS 2150. My company's first order of 35 Flxible New Looks lasted from 1970 to 1991, the second order of 53 from 1978 to 1997. And my own personal Flx New Look is still going strong - 33 years old and in top shape. It all depends on maintenance. And all of them operated at some point into New York City, roughest place for buses in the nation.
Your bus is a beauty, Joe! I saw it at the bus gathering at the transit museum a couple of years ago. I missed last year's gatherings. By the way, has that date been announced yet for this year or is it too early?
Thank you; I sincerely appreciate your kind words. No word yet on the NYCTA BusFest. I'm sure the second a date is released, it'll be posted prominently here. It should also be noted that quite a number of Washington New Look Flxibles which BusTalk poster RTS 2150 (by self-admission, a 17-year-old kid who specializes in the use of 4-letter words) tried to rip apart saw service not only in their "native" city but also in Philadelphia and New York City, then returned to Washington to finish their careers. I took beautiful photos of these and the GMC New Looks about a year before their retirement.
Absolutely wrong again. I didn't "rip apart" the DC fishbowls, I stated they were an exception and not the rule. Of course, you're just looking for an excuse to look down upon somebody. Next time you try that, you may want to try some reading comprehension, eh gramps?
And you being in high school should have long ago learned how to spell, communicate with others and show respect. With your attitude, you may never have the pleasure of being "gramps." I'm really proud of my grandkids; they're intelligent, respectful and don't speak out of line, besides knowing their subject matter before opening their mouths. I wonder if your parents are proud of you? I'd love to send them and your teachers some of your posts to show them what you turned out like.
What does any of that have do with this?
>>>Absolutely wrong again. I didn't "rip apart" the DC fishbowls, I stated they were an exception and not the rule.<<<
Frankly, I don't give a drop of oil about your grandkids, and I can tell you where to stick your "English Teacher" gimmick. But I won't because you'll attempt another laughable effort to have me banned.
Would you be so kind as to tell me where to stick the "English Teacher" gimmick? I'd love to see it in print. I dare you, kid. You don't have the guts to do so here. All talk; no action. Typical uneducated teenager.
You're welcome, Joe, your hard work to keep that bus running is definitely appreciated by the bus fans! One day when I finally move out of an apt. and move to a house where I can have a driveway and some space, I'd love to buy a used bus and rehab it.
I didn't realize the buses that were loaned to Philly and New York actually came back to DC to finish up service here. I just figured they were the buses that were going to be retired and were to finish up their lives elsewhere. I love seeing the pictures of our workhorses from down here helping out other cities! Other than the fact that I'm turning 32 on Feb. 1, I'm so happy that I grew up in the 70's and had a chance to ride them in their hayday.
Dear Mr Saitta,
I saw your bus at the Transit festival a few years ago and thought it was in exellent condition, but I have a few guestions. First, do you have any plans to retrn the interior to light green speculed scheme of the early eighties. Second, were you able to find brown striped seats that was in the bus before it was overhauled. Finally, do you have any plans to remove the tinting on the windows. Also would youknow where I could aquire soe shots of MSBA'soperation in the late seventies.
The MSBA fleet of the arly eighies was always my favorite. I eve seem to remember that around 1982 two newlooks (buses 838 and 848) tested electronic destination signs before they were removed. One of the best things about the operation back then was that it seemed most drivers kept the same bus on a daily basis.(i.e. You always saw Charlie small diving 1978 fexible 868 in the morning).
P.S. I'm especially looking for shots of buses 868, 151 507, 509, and 102-111
Thank you for your questions. This particular bus never had the speckled green interior; the original was a dark green which it retained until its repainting/refurbishing around 1986. Some of the original green color can still be seen when the cabinet doors are opened, as its repainting/refurbishing covered only the "exterior interior." I do have most of the original seats (but taken from a Jamaica Bus Flxible), but not all. When I can complete the set, they may be reinstalled - a major job. Restorations take time - and money. A complete interior restoration would cost about $20,000 - not pocket change.....
As to photos of MSBA during the late 1970s, I personally don't have too many , but a few, but do have an extensive inventory of pre-MSBA (private lines such as Bee Line, Schenck, Hempstead Bus, etc.) black and white (and a few color) photos available for anyone interested in purchasing them. Also many post-1985 MSBA photos, mostly color.
Finally, I have tens of thousands of photos of other New York City area bus operations, including a very extensive NYCTA and predecessor selection. However, time does not permit me to make a list of what I have, but if anyone is seriously interested in purchasing photos, please contact me directly by e-mail. Many f the photos are from the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s. Also, on eBay, I currently am offering nine beautiful color NYC area photos. To see them, do a Seller Search for "JoePCC699@AOL.com"
Joe, can you post any pictures of your bus on bustalk? I'm sure most bustalkers, including myself would really appreciate that. Also, is your bus a former NYCT bus or from MSBA?
BIG AL
I know there are actually pictures of Joe's bus under the Bus Fest pages on here. His is the blue Flx New Look #699. It looks sharp.
Sure Al, thank you for your interest. I'm sure most BusTalkers would enjoy seeing it, except a certain 17-year-old from Houston who delights in ripping apart a vehicle type he may never even had the opportunity of riding in but yet claims to know everything about it.
Below are three photos you can look at: one while in regular service in 1998 at Glen Cove terminal, the second at the NYCTA BusFest 2001 and the last in 2000 at Jones Beach.
All enjoy.
Sure Al, thank you for your interest. I'm sure most BusTalkers would enjoy seeing it, except a certain 17-year-old from Houston who delights in ripping apart a vehicle type he may never even had the opportunity of riding in but yet claims to know everything about it.
Below are three photos you can look at: one while in regular service in 1998 at Glen Cove terminal, the second at the NYCTA BusFest 2001 and the last in 2000 at Jones Beach.
I lost the formula for direct links, so perhaps someone can assist me here. All enjoy.
http://homepage.mac.com/joepcc699/.Pictures/MSBA0699GlenCove1988.jpg
imgsrc=http://homepage.mac.com/joepcc699/.Pictures/MSBA0699Busfest2001.jpg
imgsrc=http://homepage.mac.com/joepcc699/.Pictures/MSBA0699JonesBeachL.jpg
Sorry Joe, but I can't get the links you gave working. My computer is saying "can't find the website". I guess we'll have to try some other way.
BIG AL
Joe - I tried to send you an email requesting more info on your bus pics you referred to in an earlier message - but it bounced back. Please send an email to me so I can reach you properly.
My appologies to this bbs for the personal message.
Joe,
I could not get on to the website. It says, "Can not find page." Besides Flxible New Look bus #699, what other pics did you take?
Ray
There is a problem with the storge area; I'm working on correcting it. Soon as I can get the photos up, I'll post it here.
As to other photos of MSBA, I do have an extensive inventory of pre-MSBA (private lines such as Bee Line, Schenck, Hempstead Bus, etc.) black and white (and a few color) photos available for anyone interested in purchasing them. Also many MSBA photos, primarily after 1985 and mostly color.
Finally, I have tens of thousands of photos of other New York City area bus operations, including a very extensive NYCTA and predecessor selection. However, time does not permit me to make a list of what I have, but if anyone is seriously interested in purchasing photos, please contact me directly by e-mail. Many f the photos are from the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s. Also, on eBay, I currently am offering nine beautiful color NYC area photos. To see them, do a Seller Search for "JoePCC699@AOL.com"
Joe,
Are there any other bus gatherings that you bring your bus to? I'm going to try to get to the BusFest this year, but the calendar has worked against me the past few years. I'd love to see your bus. I grew up riding Flxible New Looks in the Boston area. I spent many hours riding the MBTA's fleet of 1972 111-CD-D061's - those buses were equipped with 8V-71 engines and soft seats for suburban and express runs, and they could just fly!
Jim D.
Thank you for your interest. Not at present but if there are any I'll let you know. Generally, however, I do bring it to the East Penn Trolley Meet in Pennsauken, NJ to give it some exercise - which is very important in preserving antique buses. And, of course, I'll take it out once or twice a month for that exercise, generally going along the Ocean Parkway starting eastbound at Jones Beach. This bus "flies" but I do hold it down - after all, it's 33 years old.
Fair enough. But, they never operated in NYC every day of their careers. They never operated the NYCTA routes. Running the LI routes and running the gamut of the ENTIRE NYCTA system are two entirely different things and thus cannot be compared.
Also, I really don't consider LI Bus a "big" operation.
Mostly wrong again. Did you ever visit the LI Bus operation? I work for them and know far more than a little kid from Texas. While not every Flxible operated every single day into NYC, they were favored by drivers on the routes running into NYC because of their fast acceleration. Many of the LI Bus Flxibles reached over 1 million miles before being retired - my own personal bus included! Most buses are retired at half that mileage figure. The Flxibles, when properly maintained, were some of the best buses ever built. The NYCTA drivers feared these speedsters and joked that they were being operated by kamikaze drivers. Most NYCTA routes (express routes generally excepted) do not lend themselves to higher speed operation. It should also be noted that ex-NYCTA Flxibles - 50 of them - were assiged to LI Bus for quite a number of years beginning in 1986, then returned to the NYCTA to finish their careers. Of course, according to poster RTS 2150, a 17-year-old who enjoys unnecessary shouting and cursing within his posts, flatly states that Flxible New Looks are junk just because he says so, even though he was just a few years old when all this was happening and saw nothing. A mature opinion is respected by all, even if one does not agree with it; few people, if any, respect those who show disrespect and have no knowledge of the subject matter about which they are expounding.
Frankly, I don't care what a few drivers thought, as that's not what we are debating. Here is what I was saying...
-The LI Bus Flxibles never operated the vast routes that the NYCTA Flxibles did, thus never recieved the severe beatings that the NYCTA Flxs amongst other buses did. What part of that do you not understand?
Also, you say that the 50 NYCTA Flxibles were loaned to LI Bus? To that I say, who cares? That was a vacation compared to the mean streets of NYC everyday. How does that prove your point in anyway? You're trying to make me believe that I was wrong for stating that Flx New Looks had generally shorter life spans than their GM counterparts in LARGE transit systems, yet, you're only feeding my argument. Give up old man. You may be good at driving and fixing buses, but you're no good at debating. All you do is gloss over facts and use personal attacks when you've been bested (which is often and brutally).
And I repeat, LI Bus is not large on the scale of WMATA, SEPTA, or NYCTA. Maybe against a Community College transit system, but not the big boys. If you wanna be a big boy, go to NYC. If you don't, then shut up and accept where you are and stop dreaming, dude.
Do you know the condition of the roads that LI Bus operates and operated on? Actually, in my opinion, both are in similar physical shape. But LI Bus buses, because of the number of lengthy routes, generally have twice the mileage accumulation over their lifespan as do those buses of the NYCTA, since most NYCTA routes are shorter. That in itself would "beat" a LI Bus bus more than a NYCTA bus. The NYCTA buses do, however, carry more passengers.
I never stated LI Bus was a large operation - please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth. But it is within the top 50 on North America, according to APTA.
I'm not looking to be a "big boy," I already am. You're just a 17-year-old thinks-he-knows-it-all teenager. I pity your teachers and parents.
There are "some" 1986 RTS buses that have over 1,000,000 miles on them and are still running. These buses are about to turn 17. "Some" or "many," in your own words, of the Flx New Looks made it 1,000,000 miles, but not all. Also, these buses operated 21 years. There's a four year plus difference right there and some of them didn't even make it to one million. Plus, they carry less passengers.
Let's put it like this, a man walks 20 miles everyday for 20 years carrying a sack of pennies, then he retires. Another man walks for 20 miles everyday for 15 years carrying a sack of bricks. Which man is doing the most work, and which one is likely to do the most work by the time both of their careers are over?
Just relate that equation to the discussion at hand and add into the fact that not every LI Flx made it to one million miles.
I never said every Flxible made one million miles. And I never stated that other types of buses never attained that figure, of course some of them did. I merely stated all along that the Flxible New Look was a very dependable bus, not a poor quality one like you attempted to portray it as.
And to answer your question about the men - the answer is simple and logical: the healthier one.
For anyone in this group wishing to meditate on more of RTS 2150's arrogance, just go to the archives. And readers should note one thing - he did not post from January 18, 2002 until November 17 of that year, when he returned with the egotistical words "I Still Exist." Now, he could have been banned from this group for cursing (I honestly don't know), or perhaps he was "away" in another location paying for his arrogance. Or maybe daddy took the little kid's computer away. I wonder????
I never said you said that every Flx New Look made it one million miles, please don't put words into MY mouth. In fact, I stated that in my post to clarify it. Must I spell it out for you? Are you simple? If you are, here it is again....
>>>"Some" or "many," in your own words, of the Flx New Looks made it 1,000,000 miles, but not all.<<<
There you go.
>>>And to answer your question about the men - the answer is simple and logical: the healthier one.<<<
True. Just as the RTS and GM New Look have proved "healthier" than the Flx New Look, by ON AVERAGE, having a longer life span and obtaining more mileage in the same period of time as the Flxible counterparts.
Also, I'm flattered that you're such a big fan of my work. Perhaps, you'd like for me to send you an autographed photo of an RTS?
Oh, and a word to the wise, NEVER, appeal to other posters for help with your arch-nemesis. It makes you look weak. Besides, shouldn't a "big boy" like yourself be able to handle an "uneducated teenager?" LOL.
I know that is what you said. I can read and spell. Just wanted to clarify it. From what hard written facts do you conclude that, in your own words, " the RTS and GM New Look have proved "healthier" than the Flx New Look, by ON AVERAGE, having a longer life span and obtaining more mileage in the same period of time as the Flxible counterparts?" What is your source for this statement? Do you have you written records of each and every transit operation that ever operated all of these types of vehicles to prove your statement? Or just another unverifiable uneducated 17-year-old child's opinion?
And yes, I'd sincerely appreciate an RTS photo signed by you. I may even send you one of a beautiful Flxible New Look. Also, would you be so kind as to tell me where to stick the "English Teacher" gimmick? I'd love to see it in print. I dare you, kid. You don't have the guts to do so here. All talk; no action. Typical uneducated teenager.
Appealing to other posters? Where did I appeal? I merely stated that if they enjoy reading your cursing, ranting and raving they should visit the archives. If any reader is in need of a good laugh or pick-me-up this or any day or evening, do go to the archives for RTS 2150.
And, out of curiosity, why didn't you post for about 10 months?
Unable to? "Hands tied?"
>>>I know that is what you said. I can read and spell. Just wanted to clarify it.<<<
Um, yeah. Nice cover buddy.
>>> From what hard written facts do you conclude that, in your own words, " the RTS and GM New Look have proved "healthier" than the Flx New Look, by ON AVERAGE, having a longer life span and obtaining more mileage in the same period of time as the Flxible counterparts?" What is your source for this statement? Do you have you written records of each and every transit operation that ever operated all of these types of vehicles to prove your statement? Or just another unverifiable uneducated 17-year-old child's opinion?<<<
Well, for starters, if you want hard facts on the GM/Flx fishbowl lifespan issue, you can start by looking at this very board. Also, you can go to the OMOT board where all fishbowls are seemingly discussed on a daily basis. And I know enough about the RTS to know many of the TAs that have/had them and how long they've lasted. I'm not going to reproduce all of that data for your personal satisfaction. Do the research and travel the net as I have.
Also, I love how you try to flamebait me. It's a decent tactic, not a good one. It shows alot of immaturity on your part though. You can't debate logically without throwing in a barb or insult. I do understand though. If I called someone uneducated, then was repeatedly bested by them, I'd attempt to distract the audience with witty remarks and threats as well. Nive attempt to save face.
An excellent attempted cover on your part for your failure to provide data to back up your statement: "I know enough about the RTS to know many of the TAs that have/had them and how long they've lasted. I'm not going to reproduce all of that data for your personal satisfaction. Do the research and travel the net as I have. " Another statement you can't verify with hard facts - just a personal opinion. Why don't you be little boy enough to say it is an opinion based on what I've heard? Never would any mature person make that or a similar statement without having the facts, and be willing to present them, to be able to back up anything they claim is a hard fact. I for one don't know - and I'm in the industry - which is the most reliable bus overall. And I'm not ashamed to admit it. I can only go by my own personal experience - and you have zero experience. There are too many factors, primarily mileage, service type and maintenance, to be able to provide even the hint of an answer.
And you still seem unwilling to answer the question as to why you did not post from January 18, 2002 until November 17 of that year, and then returned with the egotistical salutation: "I Still Exist," like we were all breathlessly awaiting your return and the imparting of the vast encyclopedia of bus knowledge you've gained over your 17-year lifespan. I'm sure most posters can easily figure out that perhaps you were "incarcerated" in some form or another, be it confined to your room (or elsewhere), had your computer temporarily placed under lock and key, were banned from this newsgroup because of your cursing, or had a problem with a "sticky" glued keyboard from visiting certain other visually-oriented newsgroups.....
Joe, I have no desire to go back and forth with you all night. Your level of immaturity shows in each and every one of your posts. You are most definately a black eye on this board as you are not able to discuss matters in a civil manner without resorting to personal attacks. It's just not here either as a poster compalined about your behavior at a public event for Busfans. You are 60 years old, yet have the maturity and reading comprehension skills of your average six year old. Perhaps, someday you shall grow up and stop your slanderous and stereotypical attacks. Until then continue your bitter tirades, as they will fall on increasingly deaf ears. I'm sure the members of this board will not stoop to your low and pitiful level of social interaction.
Social interaction (and spelling) is not, in my opinion, one of your better skills. You certainly do excel, however, in cursing, ranting and raving, and for this I congratulate you and the school in which you acquired these skills - a job well done.
As for the poster complaining about me at a bus event, fine by me. You can't like eveyone. But why doesn't that person have the guts to come up and tell me to my face? I'm there all day - if he can complain to others, certainly he could spare me a few minutes too. It comes down to one thing - NBs.
BTW, I worked and went to school at those times. I've never been incarcerated nor had my computer taken away as I bought it with MY money. Imagine that?
I'm happy you went to school and worked. But no time to post for 10 months? No time off, spring break or summer vacation? Doesn't sound right to me, especially since you delight in posting.
Purchased your own computer? Wow! Congratulations! Good to see the money you earned went to an item that you can use to impart your warehouse of knowledge about the bus industry to all interested in learning......
Joe Saitta: I told you as to what would happen If you started making personal attacks on this board, and you do it again. EVERYONE else is capable of having non-offensive discussions about busses, and you insist on picking a target and attacking. One day, you may pick the wrong target and we begin to look like SubTalk....
Don't worry about old Joe. I'm sure he can go off to his lovely Flx Fishbowl and find solace when he can no longer handle the rigors of dealing with "uneducated" teens. As for me, I'm cool. But thanks.
I never attack on a personal level unless attacked first. I respect everyone's opinion, to which we are all entitled. Please re-read all applicable posts and you'll notice that I'm on the defense, not offense. And as to "non-offensive," well, look over all of RTS 2150's posts and you'll easily see that he attacks anyone who doesn't agree with him. Look in the archives. I didn't pick any target, I just responded. Any posts here are subject to any sort of a response by anyone in this group. That's called freedom of speech (protected by the First Amendment). You stated "I told you.....and you do it again." What or who gives you the right to tell me what to say or do? I don't do it to anyone, and for you to attempt to stifle me or anyone is 100% wrong on your part, and certainly worthy of an apology. Also, I use my real name - I don't hide behind a screen name.
And, since this thread is called "Favorite New York City Bus Model," please note that mine was the GMC TDH-5101, which I spent countless hours riding going to grade school, high school, and college, and of which, fortunately, I have hundreds of beautiful photos of to bring back memories of these classic vehicles.
I've seen and know how you treated Qtraindash7....John posted some bad things about LIBUS, and you attacked him. I saw your first post and know you all too well.
I corrected, not attacked, John. He consistently states things about LI Bus which are not true, or has no direct knowledge of. All the employees at LI Bus work very hard to provide good service, and when one little thing goes wrong, or a bus breaks down, he's making headlines out of it. When you work at your employment to do a good job, and then are unfairly attacked, do you stand there and just take it? Or are you man enough to stand up and defend yourself? John actually is a very nice person and is respectful enough not to curse, but I suggest he analyze things all the way through before posting and stating things which are not correct.
All he says is that service on his home bus lines really stinks, and that the Orion V CNG's are pieces of crap, that's it.
I recall that conversation on here..never dealt with Orion CNGs, but we almost got them here...the order eventually became a fleet of Series 50-powered Gilligs. He actually said we came out better, which was ironic being that busfans usually defecate all over Gilligs.
-F.
Man that boy has no idea about the Flxible New Looks, He has probably never even road one. Boy he is sooo deprived. Beside he bad mouths almost all Flxible I believe. Whether it is a new look, an 870 or a metro. I cherished the time I rode the 1976 NJT Flxible New Looks. They were great sound running buses. I used love the 30 footers, those were soo cool to be on. I used to love it when my grandfather used to take out the 40 foot version with the 8v71 engine. What that bus soo fast. Man I wish I could be able to ride one like that again.
Tony M.
Please, stop being so biased and using tunnel vision. Flxs are not my favorite buses, in no way. But I do have fond memories of the Grummans that operated here. Despite that, I do not gloss over the fact that everyone in the system considered them "dogs" and hated them. They had issues with everything from rattling to chassis issues, to the bane of the RTS itself, yes, the driver's compartment. Many drivers abhored the drivers compartment in the old Flxs because they provided no room for larger or tall individuals. Despite this, they lasted 18 years and were once my favorite buses, but they were not very good buses in the accepted sense.
As for NYC 870's look no further than David, an NYCTA employee to give you the facts on those. And the poster Flxible can tell you about the rust and corrosion problems on the old Flx New Looks as he restores them! And that guy is more pro Flx than I am RTS.
I would LOVE for Flx New Looks and 870s to run in Houston, yet if they did, my opinion on their durability and track records would not change. That's just the way it is.
Thank you for the kind words on Grummans. We actually got ours the same time you received yours in Houston; I was 2 years old at the time, so I got a slight head start in that respect. I always admired those. We had ours until 1994...when were yours retired?
-F.
Amen on the Flx New Looks. As for the 40-foot 8v71, we have a restored one here; go to www.commonwealthcoach.com and you'll get a glimpse of it and where it is located.
-F.
Joe, THANK you. I agree; Flxible New Looks were among the best buses ever built. I know this as I grew up riding them...and we have a preserved 1976 example in our museum fleet that is still running strong at age 27. If fact, it ran regular transit service until the end of 1999, and its 1977 stablemates stayed in service with their original TA through 2001. Semper Fi, I say!
-F.
Hey Joe, I would love to see your Flxible bus.
Send me an Email and maybe I can meet up with you on Long Island.
BIG AL
No problem with that in the future - as long as you don't attack a Flxible. Send me your e-mail address. It should also be at the BusFest run by the NYCTA.
Why would I want to attack my favorite and best running type of newlook bus? If you click on my screen name, it gives you my e-mail address but here it is anyway: c2chill@cs.com
It's hard for me to attend busfest because usually I'm on duty the days they give it.
Anyway, hope to hear from you.
BIG AL
Al, haven't talked to you in a LONG time...ditto on the favorite New Look comment. And good news...I just got another Dodge Dart as a daily driver. E-mail me when you get this message...talk to you soon.
-Fred
My only issue with the Blitz rebuilds was that way-too-bulky A/C roof hump - it just clashed with the rest of the coach's styling. A smaller, more streamlined A/C unit would have been less obtrusive and looked much better.
JD
True...but it did kind of go with the rear-mount A/C in a weird way.
-F.
For honorable mentions, I'll go with
The 1990-1991 TMC RTS, especially the non-repowers
The D60HF New Flyer
My person favorites go as follows:
1) I love those GM Fishobowl, one of the best buses ever built. THe own the city streets of New York up until this day, May the Rest in Peace.
2) The Grumman 870, Those buses look great in that paint scheme.
3) The Flxible New Looks, another great bus run in NYC.
Tony M.
My favorites are
the 10 Surface Mack C-49s originally 3000-3009 and later re-numbered 4900-4909 after the MABSTOA takeover
the Grumman 870s which were taken out of service far too early
the first set of Flxible new looks, the low 5000s, which ran out of Flatbush
1. GM Fishbowls
2. NovaBus 1996 RTS's
3. Grumman 870(Fresh Pond was actually great when it had these, however later on when it became RTS exclusive, FP just went straight down hill up to today).
My favorite is any model with Busoramas.
Let's go back in history to the pre-New Look era:
Two favorites:
Fifth Avenue Coach GM 5104s, 2501-2550 series, which had a large double width rear door. Ran mostly on today's M5 for a long time; then when the 5106s and New Looks appeared they ran all over the FACO and later MABSTOA systems. Looked very good in their original green and tan paint.
Surface Transit Mack C49s, 2900 series, which generally ran on the M100, M101, and M104 from Amsterdam Depot. Looked very good in their original red and ivory paint.
[Fifth Avenue Coach GM 5104s, 2501-2550 series, which had a large double width rear door. Ran mostly on today's M5 for a long time]
I recollect that these buses also ran frequently on Fifth Avenue Route 15, which is today's M32 (except its southern terminal was Madison Park instead of Penn Station).
I have a recollection that the buses numbered below 2511 had different paint schemes. Some were in a turquoise and copper combo in the same design as the green and yellow 2600's.
You're right on both counts. Some 5104s did also run regularly on the #15, and a few low-numbered 5104s were painted an experimental copper and turquoise (which I did not like). The M5 route also saw 4509s, 4507s, and 4506s supplementing the 5104s.
The #15 was predominantly served by a group of Mack C50s after the double deckers were retired in 1951.
Route 15 also ran TDH 4509s. As well as the only TDH 5102 and the rare TD 5401, #2500!
As well as the White 1150s #2600-2605. To my knowledge they never ran TDH 5106 in the 2600 series. However, they did run the #3100 with a/c on a trail basis.
As well as the Mack C-50s. In fact, Mack had produced an ad insert for Bus Transportation that showed the C-50 on the route 15, scenes of it operating in Jackson Heights, crossing the bridge on the upper roadway(!) and making the U-turn at 25th Street.
I remember 2525 (TDH 5104) as having a different paint scheme.
Check out "Bus Rosters On The Web" (www.geocities.com/~/buslist/html)
and click on delivery list; scroll on gm transit buses and scroll to the different models mentioned here for some great FACO/route 15 and route 4 photos)
The M32 is now the Q32.
1)1977 Flxible Newlook 9000-9309 series
2)1981 Grumman Flxible 870
3)1994 TMC RTS 8600-8703 series (love the interior lights)
BIG AL
1) The Old Look 5100 series buses that ran here in the Bronx on the # 40 line in the late 50's and early 60's. These were the first buses I ever rode on.
2) The GM New Looks from around 1968. I don't know which series but I remember that they had white steering wheels.
3) 1977 Flxible New Look 9000 series buses.
4) Grumman Flxible 870
5) New Flyer D60HF articulated
Hey, you forgot your all time favorite, the RTS.
My favorites are as follows:
1.The 50/5100 and 56/5700 series Flxibles
2.GM THD-5305's(especially after they were Blitzed)
3.Grumman 870's
4 .Orion V's
5.New Flyers(both C40LF's and D60HF's)
In order of preference:
1 - The New Flyer D45SHF Viking Intercity Transit Vehicle. Fast and smooth!
2 - The New Flyer C40LF. A nice break from the monotony of the RTS and the shoe boxes they call the Orion 5.
3 - The Grumman Flxible 870 ADB. Short lived but certainly a sturdy design that should have been given it's due.
4 - (Tie) The 1994 TMC and 1996 Nova RTS's. The RTS hits it's prime.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Here's my choices :
1) the 8000 series Fishbolws with the Bus-O-Ramas (Batwings)
2) Flxible 870's - too bad the TA never really gave them a chance in NYC. I would love to see Metro D and E's in the MTA colors
3) New Flyer D60HF.
Well allow me to check in with my top five:
1) 1966 GMC-5303 (8000's)
2) 1972 GMC-5309A (4800-4919, 6200-6349)
3) 1996 Nova RTS (8752-9349)
4) 1994 TMC RTS (8600-8703)
and finally...
5) 1999 Nova RTS' with the ZF trannies (5075-5124)
Mark
Let's see...
1) 1994 TMC and 1995-1999 Nova RTS-06 (with that DD S50 engine like no other)
2) 1990 TMC (with 6V92 engine, not that repowered s**t)
3) 1998 Orion V #6000 and 1999 Orion V #6001-6002 when they first came in
4) 1999-2000 New Flyer D60HF articulated
Honorable Mention
5) All New Looks---I grew up with them while they were running on the Grand Concourse
Thank you
Carlton
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
My favorite bus is the GMC "New Look" (fishbowl) bus. I grew up with them in Westchester County. Since I was and still in Hastings-on-Hudson I usually saw the Liberty Coaches paint scheme with the red and white paint with a touch of tan and black around the windshield.
#3 West End Jeff
RTS baby! :)
Through the years the city and private operators have used all types of fare boxes.
My favorite's were...
1) MaBSTOA/NYCTA...the Johnson K-25 with a return coin drawer. These were used before exact fares became the norm.
2) Triboro Coach and Green Bus Lines... Grant Electrofarers with built in coin changers. The chimes, gongs, and buzzer sounds kept you awake!
3) The Johnson Type D on the TDH 4510s (these did not accept quarters!)
Remember, the good old days when drivers had a coin changer and actually gave passengers change in their hands and were not afraid of any rare disease!
I liked the Grant boxes with the built in changer - Queens Transit and Fifth Avenue Coach also used Grants on their buses. Some other non-NYC properties, notably Philadelphia (PTC, pre-SEPTA) and San Francisco MUNI used a Grant box that registered and stored the coins without a built in changer.
The old Johnson "coffee grinder" is my favorite, used prior to exact fare days. I saw one displayed at the Grand Central Museum Store (NYCT). I was tempted to ask them if it was for sale and if yes, how much. I still may make them an offer if they are willing to part with it.
If they won't sell it, I have one for sale. E mail me if interested.
I relive it every day. Got any Spare change
The WORST farebox of all time has to be the SmartBox. They have caused nothing but bill jams, traffic backup, delayed routes, and lost revenue here. The GFI Genfares they replaced never gave such trouble. I call them the DumbBox!
-F.
Note to bus fans: The model show at the Big E in Springfield is Feb. 1st.
Last year a couple of my friends bought themselves fareboxes & were then looking for a friend with a car to get them & their box back to NYC < G >
Can any body name the route and run numbers of any bus run which operates in 3 boroughs and makes stops in all 3.
Thank You
Clue- It's not an express route
This is hard! I have no idea what route it is but the route that comes nearly close to it is the B61 where the last stop is near the 59 St bridge and would be if it was extend into Manhattan then it would be the B61.
The B-61 is wrong.
HINT # 2- Read the original question for a clue in the original question.
Thank You
Barry you and your trivia questions. This one is hard, there's actually a bus that runs in 3 boroughs? I'll take a guess and go with the Q101, even though its a QS route.
Reread the question !!!
A Hint: The Transit Authority interlines runs
Thank You
[I'll take a guess and go with the Q101, even though its a QS route.]
That's a tricky one...
- The Q101 (Steinway Street Local) serves stops in Queens and Manhattan.
- The Q101 (Rikers Island Limited) serves stops in Queens and the Bronx (the prison itself)
Even though both variations are called Q101, they operate as separate routes and no trips actually serve all three boroughs.
I know and plus its a route in the TA, NO privates so therefore I'm wrong.
I am tempted to say the M35. If I am right, it stops in the Bronx, Manhattan, and Queens. I believe it is the M35. It crosses the Triboro, but goes into Ward's Island
M35 doesnt run into Queens Any longer
I dont see it barry, I have all 5 maps out, and nothing is there, only S.I. Express Bus Routes do it, I cant see it all. We need a better clue.
Last hint
Its a Brooklyn Division run
Thats all !!!
Good Luck
It can't be in Fresh Pond, can it?
Q54 Runs 1 & 2
Q54O Runs 1 & 2
Q54C Runs 1 & 2
Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan (via B39)
David
I also offer two runs - Q32/002 and Q32/004 (school open only). Each run does the following:
- Q44 northbound "extra service" from Flushing to the Bronx Zoo;
- Q44 southbound supplemental trip from Bronx Zoo to Lafayette Avenue (for Msgr. Scanlan High School);
- deadhead back to Parkchester;
- Q44 southbound supplemental trip from Parkchester to Lafayette Avenue, then continuing in service (Limited!) to Flushing.
After arriving in Flushing, run 2 deadheads directly to 82nd Street & Northern Blvd to begin its Q32 service; run 4 pulls in, swings, and then pulls out to 82nd Street.
Only ones I can think of - would be historical.
Specifically:
Q54 (old B53) Metropolitan Ave. used to extend over the Williamsburgh Bridge to Manhattan when it was a trolley route (prior to June 1949) - so it did indeed make stops in Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan. Same goes for the B59 Grand Street. Also the B57 Flushing Ave. also qualifies since its trolley car predecessors ran over the Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan.
One other possibility:
B24 Greenpoint/Meeker/Marcy Aves. starts in Brooklyn, swings through Queens, and goes back into Brooklyn.
The B24 only enters two boroughs(just like the B13 and the dead B18).
Strangely enough, those 3 routes are the only ones in city that start and end in the same borough, while passing through a second borough.
I have no clue-- but the B13 goes from Brooklyn into Queens and Back to Brooklyn -- but I am sure I am wrong.
Nah, the B13 only goes through two boroughs. It starts and ends in Brooklyn, but it passes through Ridgewood, Queens. The B18 also did this.
My guess is the M60 being that Randell's Island is technically in the Bronx.
The correct answer is Runs 1 and 2 on the Q-54 route which was the answer i was aware of and as Gotham Bus pointed out Run 2 on the Q-32 which i was not aware of.
Owl period trips on Runs 1 and 2 on the Q-54 begin at 171 Street/Jamaica Ave operate to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and then becomes a B-39 to Manhattan. It returns as a B-39 to Brooklyn and then resumes the Q-54 route to 171st Street/Jamaica Avenue ,
Congratulations to David who had the correct answer on the Q-54 and to Gotham Bus who pointed out the Q-32 answers.
By the way the M-60 does not stop on Randells Island that i am aware of.
At one time the M-35 route did cover a Queens to Bronx route via the Triborough Bridge which was designated the Bx-21. The Bx-21 was discontinued in the early 1980's. I do not recall if the runs were set up to operate from Manhattan to Queens to Bronx to Queens to Manhattan.
Honorable mention was the Q-101 when it was operated by Steinway Transit Manhattan to Queens to Bronx(Rikers Island)
I hope you all had fun
Thank You
So Flatbush doesn't do B39 trips in the late night nowadays? As for the M60, it does NOT stop at Randalls Island at all and it stays on the Triboro bridge towards LGA.
Yes the B-46 hawks continue to do some owl B-39 trips
Thank You
I was wondering all this time why there is no bus running via 65 St if its a fairly busy street. I understand that the B9 is 5 blocks away at 60 St but I feel a bus should run on 65 St. I thought of this recently it could run from Lutheran Medical Center to Kings Highway station on the Q via 65 St and Avenue P. Here's the route I came up with:
Eastbound-58 St, R on 2 Av, L on 60 St, R on 4 Av, L on 65 St, R on McDonald, L on Avenue P, R on East 16 St, stand.
Westbound-R on Kings Hwy, R on East 15 St, L on Avenue P, R on 65 St, R on 4 Av, L on 2 Av, L on 57 St, L on 1 Av, L on 58 St, stand.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Remember the TA has the B-9 as you pointed out
Also the N Line is 2 blocks away
In 1978 when the TA created the current B-1 route i had made a suggestion as follows
1-Create a one seat ride on 86th Street from Shore Rd to Mackenzie Street (to be called the B-1)
2-Run the B-34 from Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave to Kings Highway/E. 16th St Station via Bay Ridge Ave,13th Ave,65th St, Ave P, E.16th St.
RETURN via Kings Highway,Quientin Rd,Coney Island Ave,Ave P,13th Ave, Bay Ridge Ave to Shore Rd
NOTE:The B-34 which was discontinued in 1978 ran from Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave to 25th/Harway Av. It was replaced by the current B-1 and B-3 routes)
3-Run the B-64 from Stillwell Ave to Church/McDonald Ave via current B-64 route from Stillwell to 13th Ave/86th St then via 13th Ave via the B-16 and B-35 routes to Church/Mc Donald Ave.
In 1978 13th Ave was 2 ways then
Thank You
There was not much to see this day, but things I didn't see were:
NO Neoplans in service, the MANNs are still holding down service. I guess they are giving the Neoplans the BIG once over to make sure they don't do the same thing the old Neoplans did.
Haven't seen 2460-63 in service yet, don't even know if they on any WMATA properties yet.
Today, I went past Four Mile Run and saw 8859, which should be running from Royal, it seemed like the only 88 I saw there.
At 8th and H STreets Northeast, saw an unsual observation, even for this route. Saw three, yes three X2 artics here, they were 5242, 5236, 5235. I thought one of them had broken down, but all moved. This during non rush, when this route only runs every 9 minutes.
On my way home, I forgot to get cheese for sandwiches, so I ran up to the nearby Shoppers. When I left is where I saw the oddity. 2221, from Southeast/Annex, running on the C26, a Landover route, but I remember seeing the C28. In the past week I have spotted on Landover routes, 9701 and 9704(from Montgomery) and 8843(Bladensburg).
Also I spotted on Sunday 2146(Montgomery) still running on Southeast routes. I thought this bus would have been back to Montgomery. And last but not least, as I past Landover, a B30 bus followed me out, but it wasn't going to run on a B30 route. It was heading towards the New Carrolton Metro Station.
That is it, I am awaiting the Neoplans to enter service and seeing and hearing 2460-63. And also seeing Royal routes with bike racks.
Bx5, Bx7, Bx9, Bx10, Bx16(Ropes Av), Bx20, Bx30, Bx31, Bx34, Bx41, or Bx55?
The Bx7 since there's already a destination sign set up for Yonkers.
Yeah, but if that bus goes into Yonkers(without changing it's Manhattan terminal) it wouldn't be known as the Bx7 anymore(unless it is part time) Bronx terminal. The Bx10 would really be better suited for full time Yonkers service.
Well it can get cut back to start/end at 231St like the Bx1 and then go into Yonkers.Then you can call it the Bx7 since it'll end in the Bronx and not Manhattan.And in order to compensate for lost Manhattan service,the Bx20 can be sent to 168St to replace the Bx7 and it can still end at 246St/Riverdale Av. Then that Bx20 will become more useful cause right now,its totally useless.I don't know why the TA doesn't get rid of it.
I'll give my opinion on each bus.
The Bx5 is out b/c it makes no sense to do so, I don't know why you included this route in the first place.
The Bx7 is a good candidate since it could go to Yonkers station, or Yonkers in general but the route would become too long so I think extnding the Bx10 is better.
The Bx9 would become too long so coubt this out
The Bx10 is a better option than the Bx7 but maybe you could run both of them up there.
The Bx16 goes into Westchester for one stop and I don't think its necessary to extend this route.
The Bx20 is basically carved out of the 10 and plus you don't need 3 routes going that far up but the kicker is that its part time so I'm 50/50 here.
The Bx31 would become too long.
The Bx34 is probably the best choice for a extension up north.
The Bx41 would become very long as well but you could expand LTD stop service.
The Bx55 shouldn't be extended any further north, its fine just the way it is plus you could use the 41.
What's your opinion of the Bx30 (it goes near the Bridge near the Bronx/Pelham border)
Bx5 could go to Bartow Pell Mansion in Pelham Bay Park and then terminate in Pelham Manor, Bx5 goes up to Pelham Bay, so it is an option
Bx7 would be nice, but then again it would have no Bronx terminal unless the route was changed(or the Yonkers extension is part time) although it would be nice to have another 3 county route(like the Bx16, it doesn't stop in Yonkers though)
Bx10 is better because it starts in the Bronx
Bx16 would be better going into Westchester on it's Pelham/Eastchester route, the 1 stop in Westchester is the return trip on the Wakefield/Mt Vernon route, which is not even the main terminal.
Bx20 would actually run up with the Bx9 and it would run on Sundays
Bx34 would have to enter Yonkers to go into Mount Vernon
Imagine this, Norwood 205 St station, home of all the Westchester/Bronx routes
Bx10 - Yonkers
Bx16 - Pelham Manor (also Mount Vernon)
Bx28 - (Possible) Pelham Manor branch off from Co Op City(alternating with Co Op City buses)
Bx30 - Pelham Manor (alternating with Co Op City at Conner St)
Bx34 - Mount Vernon (also Yonkers)
Oh, I left out the Bx30
The Bx30 shouldn't be moved from Co-op City and having alternate buses go into Westchester won't work neither b/c the frequencies doesn't justify that, now if it did have more service it could work.
>>"Imagine this, Norwood 205 St station, home of all the Westchester/Bronx routes
Bx10 - Yonkers
Bx16 - Pelham Manor (also Mount Vernon)
Bx28 - (Possible) Pelham Manor branch off from Co Op City(alternating with Co Op City buses)
Bx30 - Pelham Manor (alternating with Co Op City at Conner St)
Bx34 - Mount Vernon (also Yonkers)"<<
Having the Norwood/205 St station as a hub for MTA Bronx/Westchester routes is a good idea since you have the same terminal [Bx10,16,some 28's and the 30] and you serve a station that isn't covered by Bee-Line. I would agree with sending the 10,16,30[w/more service] and the 34 out of the Bronx but I would leave the 28 the way it is.
There was a proposal several years ago to extend the Bx16 (Mundy Lane branch) to the Mount Vernon railroad station....
Option 1: Combine Mundy Lane trips with the Bx34; extend from Katonah Avenue terminal across McLean Avenue, Nereid Avenue, South 11th Avenue, West 3rd Street, South 5th Avenue, and then loop over to Prospect & Park. (Buses would actually pass through Yonkers and back into the Bronx before reaching Mount Vernon!)
Option 2: Leave the Bx34 alone. Extend Mundy Lane trips at BOTH ends: North from Nereid & Mundy via South 11th Avenue, West 3rd Street, South 5th Avenue, and then loop over to the railroad station. South from 206th Street via Bainbridge Avenue, Bedford Park Blvd, Webster Avenue, E. Fordham Road, into Fordham Plaza. (The destination signs once allowed for this as the Bx23.)
Both proposals got shot down, primarily by Mount Vernon city officials who wanted Transit to pay for any street damage caused by its buses. (Transit offered the same level of reimbursement provided by Westchester DOT for street damage caused by county-owned buses. That amount just happened to be zero. The Mount Vernon-ites just happened to not be amused.)
The Bx34 would have to run on Kimball, then Mclean, into E 240th Street(W/B), into E 238th Street, into Nereid Avenue.
How would the Bx34 have returned to Fordham, isn't W 3rd St one way?
[How would the Bx34 have returned to Fordham, isn't W 3rd St one way?]
At the time of that proposal, West 3rd Street was two-way between South 11th and South 5th Avenues. The street geometry is similar to that on Nereid Avenue.
BTW, Westchester DOT endorsed *both* of Transit's proposals, so it could discontinue the dinky 54-Creek route.
The Creek Route hardly runs, I think the Bx25 has more runs than it(although the W54/BL54 does run both ways) Still the Bx34 would NOT have gone to W 6th Street(Sandford Blvd W) so who ever is down there would have lost service(unless the Bx16 still goes by there, and they still would have to walk several blocks)
What do the Bx23 destination signs exactly say?
How about extending the Bx9 to Getty Sq. Yonkers. It would eliminate the awkward turnback at 262 st, and provide better service to the southern portion of Yonkers along Broadway.
How better can service get there with four different 1 buses and the 2 bus and also the 4 from Mclean Av to Getty Sq? C'mon,you can't ask for anything better than 6 routes serving Yonkers on South Broadway.
Leave the Bx9 alone.
Bx9 is more convienient, Metrocard(!!!!) plus it is the only route that runs 24/7 (Besides the Bx10 a few blocks over).
My comments on each route
Bx5: Pretty good option to New Rochelle because it replaces the #45 (runs 6 days, last bus at 6:30). Since the Bx5 runs 7 days a week to 10 PM in that segement, and does not experience heavy traffic, it might be good. But it may be too far to have the Bx5 to go to where the #45 goes to Top-Of-The-Ridge.
Bx7: Too long (from Columbia-Prey Hospital) so that's out of the question.
Bx9: Too many routes to Getty Square, EXCEPT that the Bx9 should go to Yonkers ONLY when the #1 and #2 are not running (from 11:45 PM to 5 AM), providing 24 hour service to Yonkers
Bx 10: Not good, ridership will be light.
Bx16 (Ropes Branch): Mount Vernon does NOT want any NYC Transit buses in their city, so they want to keep the #53 and #54 till no end, cause they are useless. Who rides them anyway?
Bx20: See Bx10
Bx30: Co Op city needs a subway line, not enough buses there. Taking the Bx30 away will worsen things
Bx31: Merge the Bx31 with the #25 to Yonkers? Not a bad idea, every other Bx31 would go to Getty Square and provide a Cross-Bronx route from Westchester.
Bx34: You have the #20 and #21 nearby and do you want the Bx34 to go to White Plains?
Bx41 and Bx55: See Bx16 above, and it's too long a route on the Bx41 to extend it to MV anyway.
Bx16(Ropes branch) would go to Pelham Manor (which IS NOT Mount Vernon)
Bx16(Mundy lane branch) already goes into Mount Vernon (and Yonkers for a little piece of a block Mclean/Bronx River Road, all branches)
Bx30 would have split service 1/2 of the buses would go to Co Op City, the other half would go to Pelham.
Bx34 would have entered Yonkers to get to Mt Vernon, the Mayor wouldn't mind NYC transit buses in Mt Vernon, but it was other officials that opposed it(so I heard)
It would be useless to run the Bx9 to Yonkers only late night, Bx10 is a better choic than the 7 because it starts in the Bronx. Many of these routes would ONLY go a few blocks past the border(unless their terminals can be shown on the Bronx bus map, like the Bx34 to Mount Vernon would have been able to have it's north terminal on the map).
Bx34 to White Plains? no way, that is WAY off of the map
also the Bx55 would have run non stop from Gun Hill Road to E 233 Street(on Webster Avenue) making the trip faster than the Bx41
I don't see a Bx55 extension ever happening and plus the pattern is to run it just like the 3 Av el did, just leave it alone.
Don't you think a bus needs to run on Webster Avenue from Gun Hill Road to E 233 Street?
The TA has ADDED an extra stop on the Bx55 N/B at Fordham Plaza, plus they cut most of the night service, so tha TA can mess and screw with any route.
Well it wasn't a good day at all,what with it snowing an all but I sure as hell wasn't gonna let that bother me so what do I do? Take a Bee-Line bus trip!
Started off by taking the M4 bus,RTS #9015 from 157-110St/Lenox where I then caught the 2 train to 233St.There I took the 11:00AM 42 bus,Flexible #837 all the way to New Rochelle where I had lunch at Subway and while I was eating I saw the 61 to Port Chester that was supposed to be there at 11:38,pass by 15mins late. Yeesh,talk about bad traffic along the way.And it was an Orion btw. Anyway,I took the next one at 12:38 which came 5mins late,and it was another Flex #773, to Port Chester where I managed to get a Bee-Line bus map at the train station!Boy am I lucky or what? After that,I waited for the 1:50 13 bus,which was an Orion #405 and took it to the Tarrytown train staion where I caught the 3:05 1T,another Flex #777 all the way to Van Cortlandt Pk and then went home on the 1 train. Overall,it wasn't all that bad.I enjoyed the trip and this time I didn't see any MTA buses pop out of nowhere for who know's what reason.
Wednesday I'm off to Palisades Center Mall to catch a ride with Trevor Logan.Just that is gonna make me soooo happy! Well till then,toodles all!
I was notified tonight that Ex Castleton Depot Orion # 146 is now at the Casey Stengel depot. Please be advised this bus is now a HARD seater. Dont be fooled by the #s. PS this bus came from the Castleton depot about 1 PM this afternoon.
Hard seater? So the TA is already starting do to do the hard seat conversion for the suburbans?
Does this bus still have the 6 inch platform(where the seats are)?
Hey, maybe Ulmer Park will finally get their Suburbans converted.
if that happens, Ulmer Park wont need newer buses-the 9200's and 9300's will be hard seaters. ill believe it when i see it.
I love those comfy seats on the RTS suburbans[I hope they don't get rid of the soft seats]. It will cost the MTA quite a bit of money to convert all the buses that were once express buses and I'll believe it when I see it too.
Those soft seats are destroyed on the Novas at UP
Ride them every day. A collective grown at the bus stop occurs when they pull up
Really and what do you mean by destroyed how bad is it? I rode on one recently on the F shuttle and they were in good condition however, they seem to be getting more flat and more softer every time I ride one.
Tape on the seats.
Spilled fluids all over the seats. Wets the bottom of your pants when you sit
Reclining buttons don't work
Not to mention the fact that getting on and off the bus is a major hastle which leads to aurguments on the bus.
The Ta should use seats from retired buses to convert the buses to the conventional MTA layout.
THe TA should not have been so short sighted in buying these buses in the first place. The should have looked to sell some off to other operators while they had some value
The T/A was not short sighted in buying those buses. Back in 1996 or probably 1994 or 1995 when they were first ordered, nobody knew anything about the MCI's joining the fleet down the road and transit needed to start replacing their aging 1982 suburbans.
The buses still have value and I'm sure could be easily sold to other operators today. Look at how some of the 3000's were recently sold off. However, being that purchasing buses hasn't been going to well lately because of a manufactuer shortage I'm sure transit has no plans on letting go of the 9250-9349 RTS's.
BIG AL
I never saw a RTS suburban, especially in UP have tape on the seats but everything else you mentioned I have seen. Its going to cost a whole lot to convert the suburbans and remove the platforms so I say they should just leave it alone.
The problem is the platforms. Do the orion V suburbans have a platform also or are they similar to the privates orion V suburbans
I believe the Orion suburbans do not have the platforms.
they certainly do.
The OrionV Suburbans do have the platforms. I've been on QV's Orions(611-630) quite a few times, and they have the platforms.
And for some reason, I find the OrionV Suburbans to have more standing room then the Nova Suburbans.
Oh they do, well I haven't rode one so I wasn't sure and it didn't look like they had them. The Orions have more standing room b/c they are 5 feet longer and they are wider than the RTS; that gives the Orions the boxy look ;-).
The Orions are NOT 5 feet longer and they are not wider at their widest point than the RTS(102"). Though their boxi-ness will allow more interior room as opposed to the RTS being somewhet rounded off. Look at the window posts on an RTS compared to an Orion. The Orions would appear to have a thinner 'skin' than the RTS whose window posts are somewhat thicker.
Aren't Orions 45' long? I know RTS's are 40'. Yea that's true the boxiness does make it look like it has thinner 'skin' on the window posts.
The only coaches greater than ~40 feet in the NYCT stable are the MCI's and the New Flyer D60 artics.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
I was informed again tonight that CS 146 has the hard seats with platforms they are set up the same way as the soft seats were. they are set up with 2X2. Also 146 is a S L O W bus max speed 35 MPH Its an accident waiting to happen. Its also repowered.
Is 146 in service on any Stengel routes yet?
To confirm, the hard seats are on the old raised platform, and they're in the exact same configuration? (All facing forward, 2x2, except for the middle?) Are they carpeted? Is the side-sign still in the upper window?
I stand corrected! Three coaches fit the greater than 40 feet criteria:
1- The New Flyer D45S "Viking"
2- The MCI coaches
3- The New Flyer D60 artics.
Sorry for the misinformation.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Correction to post 62763, they do have the platform.
Do any of these problems are on a QV Nova RTS Suburban and Orion V Suburban Bus?
Tape on the seats,I only saw only 1 Bus that have tape on the seat
Spilled fluids all over the seats,Never happin on a QV Bus
Reclining buttons don't work,Those buttons do work
Not to mention the fact that getting on and off the bus is a major hastle which leads to aurguments on the bus,Well it's not relly a major problem and never saw and heard no aurguments
So your answer to this is NO!
For QV/JA buses, most of the reclining buttons work just fine.
Also I've seen a few of the QV Orions Suburbans with cut open seats, but usually thats only in the back(where I usually sit).
Q46, Q36 and Q30 riders probably aren't as rude as those old people who ride the B3(thank God I don't live near that route). I've been on crowded suburbans on the Q46 and I also never heard arguements when there were people standing. Those B3 riders must have serious problems if they cuss each other out just for a damn seat.
What happend is that some people refuse to move to the back setting up show in the middle of the aisle causing people to squeese by. This causes people in the seats to get hit with bags.
Crowded routes like the Q58 have the same problem. Most people are too lazy to walk to the back, and therefore must get "crunched" together. I'm so glad those suburbans aren't here in Fresh Pond. You do not want to anger Q58 riders, trust me, bad things will happen.
I wonder what would happen if the B82 ever got suburbans. I'm sure the friendly riders(sarcasm) on that route wouldn't mind having them.
Try running them on the B6, see the results. Remember the suburbans in Flatbush a while back, wasn't as bad as I thought but then again, it proved problematic with crowds and its good they were transferred.
Yes, but Flatbush also has some 1997 RTS hard-seaters with front-facing double-seaters on BOTH sides of the aisle. They supposedly came over from Yukon. I think they're 47XX or 48XX series. Either way, the aisle is almost as narrow as in the Suburbans.
One Saturday afternoon, I rode one such bus on the B6 from Canarsie to 60th Street. There was a long argument lasting most of the way from Ralph to the Junction, because of a woman who parked her open laundry cart in the aisle towards the front (!) of the bus. Maybe she's a regular B6 rider and is used to a wider aisle resulting from the standard RTS set up of two seats on the right, one on the left- not that that would excuse her actions.
But the very large Suburban seating takes up even more space, hence making the narrow aisles seem even more narrow.
You mean the 1987/1988 RTS's. The 2x2 hard seaters aren't as bad as the suburbans but they still take up isle room but never experienced a argument from passengers by the 2x2 4800's. If she had a shopping cart, she should of moved to the back or fold it if it were possible.
Oops, my mistake- I MEANT to say 1987, not '97. And yes, common sense would dictate that an adult wouldn't plant an unfolded shopping or laundry cart in the middle of a bus. But who SAYS common sense prevails?!
Seems like all the RTS and Orions on the Queens privates- and maybe all LI BUSes as well- have 2X2 seating and the resultant narrow aisles, and I've never observed any territorial disputes on them.
LI Bus does have 2x2 seats as well and they're fine when they get crowded, must be the attitude of NYCT riders ;-).
I forgot to say, I've never been on a crowded Nova Suburban before, my previous post was based on my rides from OrionV Suburbans. All the Nova Suburbans I rode on the Q46 where somewhat empty.
Every time I am on a crowed nova sububan on the B3 it reminds me of the picture on the back of "highlights" childrens magazine. The one where there is a crowded scene with objects and people all over the place and you need to pick out the objects that don't belonge
Haven't seen any bus with tape at all but I saw & sat on seats that were very soft[which isn't so bad compared to the seats that feel like you're sitting on a rock]. I have seen spilled fluids in fact one time someone spilled Sweet n sour sauce from McDonalds on a seat and some of the recliner buttons on UP buses DO NOT work you couls push seats backwards w/o using it. Never been on a bus where people argued however people tend to bump into each other getting on/off the bus.
How much longer can the MTA keep these buses in service before the seats need to be completly replaced?
On a positive not the pickup on these buses is pretty good
If they're maintained more often, there would be no need to replace them.
But that costs money.
That money could be spent on converting some to hard seater 2 to 1 configuration with the remining run on low ridership lines as much as possible.
It going to cost the MTA a whole bunch to keep these soft seater running over the cost of thier life. Maybe teh MTA will convert some once the orion VII come in
Everything has a cost but I think the conversion would cost more than the maintenance [I could be wrong it may turn out to be the opposite]. We'll just have to wait & see.
Those soft seats are destroyed on the Novas at UP.
It's the same thing with some of those Nova Suburbans at QV/JA. I say convert them.
The seats are not in bad condition at all on the Nova suburbans in Jamaica depot. I recently rode on 2 different buses within the last 3 months and both were in very good condition. Granted, some do have tears in the cushion seams which spread quickly caused by being just plain worn out which is what you guys think are probably damage caused by vandals. Since the Jamaica depot suburbans are in pretty good shape, I have no reason to believe the QV buses are in any worse condition. Overall, I think you guys are blowing it out of proportion by stating the seats are being all torn up. I haven't seen any UP buses in bad condition either, and that's where I work.
BIG AL
I have rode the QV Nova RTS Suburbans and OrionV Suburbans many times,Mainly on the Q46 and Q30. The seats are in good shape as of yet.
UP's, JA's and QV's local routes are going to kill those seats, trust me. The QV's/JA's riders here will tell you. Some of those seats have tape over the them, since they're cut open by stupid HS students that ride the Q46, Q36, Q17, and Q85. I hope they convert those buses.
Anyways, I just hope they keep the Orions with the soft seats.
Damn, its not that bad at UP. At UP they are getting flat and real soft and the recliner buttons are not working like they used to and you could push the seat back w/o using the button.
As has been previously stated here, the big problem with the suburban seat RTS's & Orions is the lack of space for standees. What compounds the problem compared to the 1982 RTS Suburbans is that the elevated platforms on the newer coaches cuts into aisle space. Further making things difficult is that the seats themselves are wider, as well as the seats not having any type of hand holds. I've had the displeasure of standing on the Orions when they were in express service at QV. Standees will crowd around the back door area because that is the only practical place to hold on to something. The standee poles tend to be too high for most people to reach. If they had the swinging "straphanger" that the RTS has, then it would be a bit more tolerable.
The condition of the seats on the RTS Suburbans I've ridden seems to be a bit better than the Orion Suburbans. Given that they are a few years newer, I would expect this to be the case. With the Orions that haven't had their cushions changed, one will more likely sit on fabric covered spring rather than anything resembling a seat.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
A Orion Suburban converted into a hardseater? I guess they are really going through with the conversions but we'll see if the convert the RTS suburbans[I hope they don't].
Maybe they only converted one or two, just to see if the whole process was worth the time and money.
Maybe it was only done out of necessity (like all the seats were torn up) and i guess having a load of extra hard seats from what they could salvage from 473 and 543, they decided to do it.
Ride the B3 and then lets talk about conveting the novers to hard seaters. The B3 is even a bigger mess then i tnormally is because of the NOVA suburbans.
Why does it cost so much to convert to soft seaters on the orions. The TA has a ready supply of hard seats from buses it is retiring
In the case of the nova suburbans the platform where the seats are currently on needs to be removed which will rewuire new flooring
The RTS suburban conversion is the one that will cost quite a bit of money. I think they should leave it alone but they do cause some problems when it comes to standees, particularly for the B3 as you mentioned [if they had them on the B6 it would be far worse].
The suburbans would be better placed on a commuter line like the B2. The B2 had many older rts suburbans on the line. The reason why this line would be better is that most people at leaste kings highway bound get off at one stop eliminating the struggle to get off while the person next to you is not.
I agree -- the passengers would probably be better off with these buses confined to feeder routes (routes where most riders are headed to/from the same place, like a subway station). Better yet, if they're going to run in local service, they should be confined to lines that average a seated load or thereabouts, even during peak hours. Unfortunately, there aren't too many of those around, and none of them are in Ulmer Park, where many of these buses are.
David
Well the Low Ridership Routes like the Q75 and Q79 can use them,But they aready use them alot on the Q75 and Q79 most of the time.
The Q46 uses them most of the time,But many riders ride it to mostly Transfer Points(Like Parsons/Union) and rush hours many people don't get off until Union Turnpike/Queens Blvd but that's a diffent story for the reverse peak Q46,Gets packed with SJU Students!
Ahh!!!! Those damn Saint John University where such a pain when I was in HS. They always crowded up the Q46 making everyone who got on after them stand up! They would all get off when they reach Queens Blvd., forcing everyone to stand up the whole.
As Kramer from Seinfeld would say "Oh God Help Us!"
Hey I was part of that St. John's University crowd. I went to school there from 1997-early 2002. However, I do have to agree that we do crowd the bus up. But you also have Queens General Hospital and High School kids from Francis Lewis and St Francis Prep that crowd the bus stops at Utopia Pkwy and at Franny Lew. And on top of that, you have the Insane Mental Creedmore Patients and the LIJ personnel and crowd as well.
So Those Damn St. John's University Students are not the only ones packing the Q46 up.
1 more point: Anything that goes to or near Queens Blvd crowds up.
#4900 Q46
Ahh!!!! Those damn Saint John University where such a pain when I was in HS. They always crowded up the Q46 making everyone who got on after them stand up! They would all get off when they reach Queens Blvd., forcing everyone to stand up the whole trip
As Kramer from Seinfeld would say "Oh God Help Us!"
I agree with that however, NYC doesn't have too many routes like that but when FB had 4873-4888, it wasn't too bad but these are 1988 suburbans. The 1996 Nova suburbans at UP have difficulties with crowds like on the B3 and that's been the major problem. Hey imagine they were on the B6 how about that. Recently, I saw 926x operating on the Q17 during the rush hour. I don't think its causing a uproar.
IMHO, I don't think the MTA will be reseating the Novas just that quickly, with the possibility of the TA taking over privates especially the New York Bus Service routes, there might be a need for express coaches, and I highly doubt that MCI can pump out the requirement for the service if its taken over in 3 months. Especially with the motherload of orders MCI is currently trying to complete!
Granted if a take over is what comes to pass, its a possibility that the said privates would transfer buses over to the TA however these are DOT owned buses so.......You do the math!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Regards,
Since we're talking about favorite NY bus models, let's see what bus model if the favorite in Philly. All bus models are eligible, so post them!
My favorite bus models are:
1)Neoplan Artics AN460
2)'75 Flxibles (6314-6665, 1241-70, 360-408)
3) the TDH5105's (3500-3849)
4) all of the Neoplan AN440s
The GMC RTS Slope Backs!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hmmm
Haven't spend much time around SEPTA lately.
1-Neoplan AN-460
2-Neoplan AN-440
The RTS 03 series were cool once they were repowered with the DD 6V92 engines. I think I like the sound of the engine (and shifting) more than the bus itself.
Wayne
yea i still remeber the way it pick up as a bus in septa with 6v92ta engine it pick up pretty fast almost like a nabi. So that my fav. bus model but back in the day the 1982 Neoplan An440 w/c was to i love the way that thing pick the last time i remeber riding on a neoplan was in 1994 last time i remember riding on a rts was in 1996.
My favorite SEPTA bus models are these:
1. Neoplan AN 440 (especially the 8851-8875 series from 1985)
2. Any Flxible
3. The one & only 40-foot Volvo SEPTA had, #8590.
Michael B.
Collegeville, PA
My all time favorite SEPTA bus was ALL Neoplan AN440s. I wish there was a way that they could stay on for another 5 or 10 years.
Next on the list are the Neoplan Articulateds, the RTS and the New Flyer Low floors.
That's my favorite, also.(The AN-440's) I love the sound the tranny makes when it winds up in first gear. The black window trim was boss, also, but they repainted them without it!
Chuck Greene
Here are mine:
1) NABI 416.08
2) New Flyer D40LF
Thank you
Carlton
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
After NYC and Philly, list your favorite WMATA bus model. Here arew my personal faves:
1) the Flx Metro D (97-9800s)
2) AM Generals
3) The ABW "Shirley Hwy" buses (1000's and 1100's)
4) the Flx Metro B's (87-9400's)
5) New Look Flxibles (80-8600's/5051-70 "downtowner")
I'd have to say my favorites are:
1) 9800 series Flx Metro D suburbans (9830-9835)
2) 4000 series Flx Metro E's
3) Flx Metro B's (all of them!)
3) Flx New Look 8594-8603 (these had the digital signs)
4) New Flyer C40LF
5) RTS 9112 (suburban style)
You have two #3 s on your list; I'm not sure if that indicates a tie.
Anyway, of the buses operated by WMATA at any time in the past five years, here's my top five:
1) 6600-series 1966 GMC TDH 5304s from DC Transit
2) 9700-series 1993 Flxible Metro Ds
3) 9600-series 1992 Orion Vs IN THE OLD PAINT SCHEME!!
4) 8700-8800-series Flxible Metros Bs
5) 5200-series 1995 Ikarus 436s
Ooops!!! Thanks for letting me know! I meant to just have 1, 2, 3... So, there should be 6 instead of 5!!
The 1993 Flxible METRO Ds 9700 and 9800 Series
The 2600 Series GMC Fishbowls (Because I drove one! Teehee)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
1. Toss up btw Shirley Highway buses and any GMC New Look (There were too many fleet numbers for me to remember. W.E.S., Oren, 1C/Ballston, Mdlbgcat, Little help here.)
2. Flx New Looks (only the 82-83-8400's. I never rode the older ones)
3. RTS
4. Flx Metro B's (87-9400's)
5. 9600 Orion V's in their original paint scheme
1. Toss up btw Shirley Highway buses and any GMC New Look (There were too many fleet numbers for me to remember. W.E.S., Oren, 1C/Ballston, Mdlbgcat, Little help here.)
I'm so glad you brought this up! I'm not the best qualified person to shed light on this, but I'll try and see if I can help. Between about 1995 and the end of 'em, I think there were GM New Looks scattered across these series:
1000 1100 1300 1400 1500
2500
3600 3800
6400 6500 6600
The 6400-6500-6600s were from DC Transit and kept their orginal numbers; the others kept their last three numbers and gained a one-digit prefix to indicate which system they were inherited from.
Right when WMATA retired the last of the New Looks, they had a PDF file at their website which listed about 100 New Looks by model, serial number, and of course, fleet number. I had this on my computer until my hard drive crashed a few weeks ago (and took virtually my whole collection of transit photography with it...) It would be useful if anyone has this file available.
In addition, there were also 2600's, 3500's, 6300's and 6700'! I liked the lower 1000 series buses. They looked cool when they were rehabbed with the blue vinyl seats.
I think that list you are mentioning is still available on WMATA's website. I went into the aucitions section recently and when I went to the bus link I was led into a PDF link of the buses they had available for auction at that time. At first, I thought they were additional buses, but I recognized some of the numbers from earlier. You should check it out and see if it still exists!
1-Flxible Metro-E
2-Flxible Metro-D&B
3-GMC T8H-5307A (Shirley Express)
4-GMC TDH-5304 & Flxible 53096-6-1 (8200-8600 series)
5- The NFI C40LF are pretty cool too
Honorable mention - I'm not very big on Orions, but WMATA's (especially the 06.501) can really fly.
Wayne
1. GM New Looks (6000s)
2. Flxible New Looks (8000-8600s)
3. Flxible Metro Bs (8700-lower 9200s ONLY)
Well mine would be any bus I can fit into (6'6)LOL!!!, but seriously mine are:
1)9200s Flxible Bs
2)9700s Flxible Ds
3)8700s Flxible Bs
4)9300s Flxible Bs
5)1100s GM New Looks
6)New Flyer C40LFs
7)4200s Orion Vs
8)Orion VIs
and
9)Orion IIs, (SYKE!!!!)
Goes to the GM RTS(those things flew)
GM 6600s, 3500s, 3800s, and 1300s
All of the Flxible New Looks (especially the 8000-8100s and 8594-8604)
The MANNs 5100s
The Nabis
and 8900s (8971-75 more exactly)
DASH: Orion Vs and the Orion 1s with Cummins engines
Ride On:TMC Citycruisers, Orion Vs CNGs, 2001-2002 Orion Vs, ex-Baltimore Flxible Ds
Cue:Orion Ones
The Bus: Thomas SLFs, Gillig Phantoms, and the Thomas TL960s
Fairfax Connector: TMC RTS
And although this is not really part of the Washington D.C. area:
Baltimore MTA: NABIs 9500s, 9900s, 0000s and Flxibles 7000s, 9200s and 9400s (haven't rode them yet, but like those M11 engines)
Here are mine:
1) Flxible Metro-D
2) Flxible Metro-E
3) Orion V, VI (nice, fast diesel engine)
Thank you
Carlton
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
OK, an old post, but here are mine:
1) ANY Flxible Metro still in the second scheme!
2) The 9200s.
3) The 87-8900s.
4) The 5100s (30-foot Flx Metros...so cute!).
5) The 92-9800s.
6) The 40-4100 series Flxibles (some of the last ever made!).
7) The 8000-8600 Flxibles (never rode them, but these are a de facto as the Flx New Look is my namesake and favorite bus of all time.)
8) ANY DC Transit/WMATA GM Fishbowl.
9) The 9000-9100 series RTS.
10)The 9600 Orion Vs.
Let's hear more favorite DC buses!
-F.
Fred my list looked pretty much like my WMATA favorites. I really like WMATA's Orion VI (20XX) series because they're sooooo fast. I'd remove the RTS and probably add the NABI 436 and of course the new Neoplan AN-460.
Wayne
OH yea! I now too add the Neoplan AN460 to my list. That sucker can even go up a hill fast.
HEHE! that what's up. Any havespec. o them about engine tranny an top speed.
I am 99.999999999% sure that the engine is a DD60 engine, trannys I am not sure of and I am pretty sure they would beat a New Flyer in a race (those aren't slow pokes either) and I am not sure if they are goverened (probably not). I think though it is a waste of their talent putting them on the 70 a stop, stop here, a stop-stop there, here a stop, there a stop everywhere a stop stop. The X2 would have been better, more room to let these beast go wild on that stretch on Benning Road/H Street from Minnesota Avenue to North Capitol Street.
On Montgomery and especially Landover, Vienna Station Arlington Routes, those buses would really could go wild.
An articulated bus on one of the Centreville or Chantily runs would be awesome, especially when they would deadhead on I-66.
hmmm DDC60 wow that's a pretty fast engine for a artic. i guess those thing can reach 50mph fast
Yeah, a New Flyer will really haul the mail. I remember having to stomp the pedal to the floor to get a 6V71-powered Flx Metro B up a hill; ironically, a D35LF powered by a smaller Series 50 (with two less cylinders) took very little accelerator effort to do the same. Sad to say....the Flxies were my favorites of the bunch.
Another note about New Flyers; with every other bus I have piloted (Grumman 870, Flxible Metro, Gillig Phantom) you always have a weird feeling getting back into a car, even if many hours passed betewwn the both. I swear that my Dodge Intrepid felt just like a Viper compared to the above....very low to the ground, slung back, and responsive...suddenly I felt EVERY inch of the road.
With the D40LF, no change at all....the car felt "normal" for some reason. Wonder how that happened, and why that is?
-F.
WEll, the New Flyers ARE shorter than average buses, so that may be a good reason as to why it didn't feel so different.
Wow, those Neo's are THAT fast? To compete with a New Flyer? Why didn't SEPTA go for those DDC 60's? THAT would be fun to ride, especially on I-76. Maybe if SEPTA gets more, they will go for the DDC 60s instead of the 50s, because these artics are ssssllloooowwww.
the septa neos are not that slow but the pick up suck i seen a driver who drive them fast trust me those things are far from slow. Anyway that could be a reason why septa stick with the ddc 50 engine
Yeah, they have the worse pick up Ive ever seen, but one the highway they can fly (I rode the 27 a few times...whew!). Any bus can eventually go fast, though, but generally they go pretty slowly.
Yea on the 65 you know that wissachack section while their is a hill and a big park near there this bus driver that i swear was going near 60 mph if not 65mph the top speed anyway once it reach it probaly sound like it still going.
While it depend on how the DDEC is set up if it setup the way the ones in the NABI's are they are pick up like them not sure about the fyers since the tranny is slighly different and has a smaller 2nd gear. anyways if it's DDEC is set up in a fast way that thing will fly. I remeber one time i was downtown i saw a artic. like that when i saw the bus acc. and the pick up sound like a nabi or something.
They accelerate fast, in fact some of WMATA's last bus purchase have great acceleration. The Neoplan artics, the Orion VIs and the New Flyer C40LFs. The NABIs here aren't that great in terms of acceleration, but are quick with the M11 engines.
I'm also 99.99999% sure they have DD 60 engines, I'm 100% sure they have allison transmissions of some sort.
did any here look @ the driver cockpit @ all hold on i look back @ the old posted i think i saw a photo of it!
Ok back here again it has a allision world b-500r transmission 5 gears
WMATA's AN460's dash are much more nicely organized and layed out than Beeline's AN460's dash. Any comment?
Yea there they look more design for speed than the septa neoplans dash.
correction allision b-500r 6 gears wow those things mess be flying i was septa would fellow.
Every new bus out there seems to have Allison Transmissions now adays. Whatever happened to the ZF Ecomat?
Some TA's such as Ride-On order their busses with Voith tranmissions.
Voith Transmissions? I've never heard of that type...or maybe I have...What Ride On buses have those? I'll look out for them next time I'm in Mont Co, MD.
Most Ride-On Orion V's and Gillig Phantoms have Voith with some exceptions. The 1993 Orion V's, Orion I's, and 1999 Gillig Phantoms have Allisons. The 1995-1996 CNG's have ZF trannys. There might be more that I dont know of.
Voith are usualy 3 gear trannys and sometimes 4 gears. I think they have a factory or something in nortwest PA.
Voith makes a VERY nice transmission for the busfan. Usually they are 4-speed; they have a nice whine on takeoff and a very pronounced "WHEEEEEEEEEeeeeeee" whistle upon downshift into 1st. Our 2001 Gilligs arrived here with Cummins ISL and Voith combos, and they are a marked improvement over the wimpy Series 50/B400R combo we last got in our 1994 Gillig order. Plenty of takeoff and more reliable.
Oh yes, and the Voith gear switch panel is very cool...it slants up from the side panel, and has very nice lighted buttons. Quite cool!
-F.
Hmm got a photo of the gear seletor never saw it before anyways hmm with the whine take off that reminds me of the Zf tranny in septa neoplans in the snow you can hear nothing but whine!!!!1
:)
Some ta's still geting a Zf tranny like the NJT artic has the trannys and they are brand new.
OK, I think we covered every MaBSTOA/NYCTA bus model.
Lets take on the private bus companies operating in and around New York City...
My favorite picks...
Triboro Coach
a) TDH 5303, ex-World's Fair Greyhound
b) Flxible F2D6V401-1, #s 801-815
c) TDH 4507 (specially the one that St. Mary's bought from Triboro)
Green Bus Lines
TDH 5301, #s 401-410
with Grant fare boxes and zone checks on the Q60
Steinway Transit
1)TDH 4517, #s401-420
2)TDH 5105s
Ave. B and East Transit Company
1) Flxible FD6V5-351-1, #s 601-605
2) T6H 4521A, #611-615
(Queens Transit had at least one ex-Greyhound World's Fair TDH 5303)
Triboro Coach, Jamaica Bus Lines & Queens Surface
The 199-31994 TMC RTS CNGs
Command Bus Company
The 1994 TMC RTS CNGs
Green Lines
The 1997 Orion 05.501
New York Bus Service
The MCI D4500 Cruisers
Liberty Lines
Specifically MCI Classic #3025
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Cool...
New York Bus Service
Definitely the GMDD T8H-5308A (1481-1505)
Classics (both MCI and GMDD) strong second
Liberty Lines
MC-9 (2021-2049 approx) and GM S8H-5304A (tie)
Again MCI Classics and very strong second
Queens Transit
Grumman Flxible 870 (higher 800 series)
GMDD T8H-5307A (high 700-high 800 series)
MCI Classics honorable mention
Steinway Transit
Grumman Flxible 870 (400 series)
GMDD T8H-5307A (3-22???)
Triboro Coach
Grumman Flxible 870 (100 series)
GMDD T8H-5307A (600 series)
Green Bus Lines
Grumman Flxible 870 (550-589)
GMDD T8H-5307A (355-364)
Transit MCI Classics
Jamaica Buses
Grumman Flxible 870 (400 series)
Transit MCI Classics
Honorable mention - Flxible 111CC-D51 (200 series), especially 203 & 212
Boy... were those ever the days!
Wayne
My's would be.
Libery Lines
MCI Classics with W/C Lifts
NYBS
About every model they have running
Command
RTS CNG's(Like #4903 more) and OrionV CNG's
Green Lines
The OrionV 55xx Series and the Ex NYBS OrionV Suburbans and the MCI Classics and so as the 1979 RTS and the Flx 870
Triboro Coach
MCI Classics RTS CNG's and OrionV CNG's
Jamaica Buses
MCI Classics Flx 870 and TMC RTS
Queens Surface
MCI Classics OrionV CNG's Flx 870 and the 35 Foot Flx New Look
I forgot about Command...
1-GMC T6H-5308 (200 series)
2-MCI Classic
3-GMC RTS (351-355 w/dark tinted windows & dot-matrix sign)
Anyone remember back in the early 80's when all of Commands buses were in the 200 series. Back then the T6H-5308A's (and the deck-and-a-halfs) were the backbone of their fleet.
Wayne
Some NJ units:
Rockland Coaches T6H5306A - 281-284, 460-462 and T8H5306A - 463-472. These were single door transits, equipped similarly to Public Service's 500-series units
Public Service T8H5306A 540A-549A, the unique Park-Ride buses painted white, lavender, and gold. These were the only V8 transit buses (albeit single-door) with AC and automatic transmissions PS ever bought.
Also, while not metro NYC...
MARTA Atlanta T8H5307A - 4001-4365 - first fully-painted New Looks I had seen
Queens Surface Deck and a half # 516.....Just had Robert Garret make a resin model of it for me.
Mine, anything that starts on these cold mornings and that the heat works < g > Hey I just work here < g >
For me it is as follows:
GBL 1.TDH-5303's(800 series)
2.Grumman 870's and Metro A's(except 544-549 from Houston)
3.RTS-03's
4.MCI Classics
5.Orion V Suburbans(719-722)
JBL 1.T8H-5307's
2 RTS-03's
3.Grumman 870's
TCC 1.T6H-5307
2.T8H-5307
Steinway.AM Generals & T8H-5307N(was bus #323)
Queens Transit 1.Orion V's
2.MCI Classics
3.RTS-03(190-203)
4.Grumman 870's
5.the former CDTA Flxibles
Triboro Coach--Orion V CNG
Command Bus Co.--Orion V CNG
Queens Surface--Orion V CNG, 1994 TMC RTS-06
NYBS--MCI D4500
Liberty Lines--1990 MCI Classic (3101-3110)
Green Bus Lines--Orion V transit
Jamaica Buses--1994 TMC RTS-06
Thank you
Carlton
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
2153149608 -thats the ebay number to find this model. Its the Flexible Metro in DART(Dallas Area Rapid Transit) colors-get this model-these are hard to come by.
My's would be:
Flx 870
GM RTS
OrionV Diesels
OrionV CNG's from 2000 and past the year 2000
my libus picks as top 3
1-Gillig
2-Flixible
3-Orion V CNG-the 300 series
1-Grumman Flxible 870/Flxible Metro
2-GMC T6H-5310A/S8H-5304A
Wayne
1. 1970 flexible bus # 507 (ex mabstoa)
2. Unrebuilt 1970 flexible 437-438
3. 1073 TDH-5309 100 series
Gillig & Orion with Cummings engine ... yuck !
Well the Cummins L10G's are okay, there alot smoother than the new 300s. Too bad they didnt use a John Deere engine. :-)
We got two in our fleet, they are still "running" < grin >
My favorite was the 5 1958 or 9 Mack C-49s that Bee Line ran, often on the Freeport line but sometimes also to Hempstead. I think they were numbered 620-624 and they had the "new" front end and the single rear window without the center divide. Later on, the original Mack front bumpers were replaced with Fishbowl style bumpers. These attractive buses were few in number and were edged out by the excitement around the arrival of the new look GMs on the scene. Then Mack stopped building buses altogether. I wonder if Mack will ever re-enter the American bus market.
[My favorite was the 5 1958 or 9 Mack C-49s that Bee Line ran, often on the Freeport line but sometimes also to Hempstead. I think they were numbered 620-624 and they had the "new" front end and the single rear window without the center divide.]
When 620-624 were delivered new to Bee Line, they ran exclusively on the Freeport-Jamaica route as the only 40 foot buses there. Bee Line's other 40 foot buses (600-619, old look GM's) ran exclusively on the Hemptsead-Jamaica route. That exclusivity was eroded as Bee Line's fishbowls started arriving, but for a while the Macks were almost always on the Freeport route. Sometime in the mid-1960's, Bee Line repainted 620-624, the most noticeable change being the painting of the gold front end piece to white. When the repainted buses returned to service, the were found most often on the overnight runs. I recollect that in those days, 3 overnight buses ran on the Hempstead-Jamaica route and 2, on the Freeport route. These buses were retired before many in the 600-619 series, and none found there way to MSBA.
For me it was:1 1978 Flxibles(hi 800/low 900's)
2 Flxible Metro A's
3.Gillags
4.the 1981 RTS-04's from the NYCTA
5 the newest Orions V's(288 and up)
Now I don't know how I could've forgotten about those high 800 series Flxible 53096-8-1. Those buses were too fast.
Wayne
Orion V diesels.
Although I like several models of buses that served MSBA and LI Bus, my special favorites were the few old look GM 40 footers that made it to MSBA. I recollect one of Schenck's 400-405 made it, as well as several in Bee Line's 600-619 series. I particularly liked 615-619 and, as I posted here recently, 619 was the only old look bus to ever be repainted into MSBA's orange and blue colors. (As an aside, Double A in Rocky Hill, Conn., has former bus 611 in its fleet.)
Honorable mention goes to the 30-foot fishbowl MSBA ran; I think it was number 1000. I never found out the definite history of that bus, but believe it may have been rebuilt from a former Schenck 40-foot fishbowl that was in an accident.
Old Look 617 had a "second" life, still survives with a private owner and runs, but is not currently restored. It ran from its disposition by MSBA until 1982 for Alert Coach, which used it on their premier and heaviest route, the S-1 from Halesite on the north to Amityville on the south (this route actually duplicated the Cross Island Trolley). It was repainted all white and normally driven by only one driver. In 1982 the transmission failed and Alert chose not to repair the bus, but it has been set aside for tentative preservation.
Saw a GMC Fishbowl on the NJ Turnpike this morning somewhere south of the Trenton exit (don't remember exact location) heading north. Said Alleghaney (sp?) County Transit. Anyone know where this thing may have been going?
You saw the #251 a T6H4523A which is an ex Cumberland Maryland bus owned by a fan in Baltimore. It was on its way to US Coach in Berlin, NJ for some work.
Laddie
With the debate raging on favorite NYC, Philly, and DC bus models, its time to go to that place where almost any type of bus could be found: NEW JERSEY! Let`s discover what is your fave NEW JERSEY bus model. Here are my faves:
1) All Flxible 870's and Metros
2) MCI D4000/4500's
3) GM TDH 5304 with Bus-O-Ramas (seen mostly in Newark and Jersey City)
4) Flxible 53102 and 45102 TWO-door buses.
5) MCI MC-9 Jersey Cruiser
I'll have to say that the Flex Metros are also my favorites. Especially since I drive one every day.
Troy
I'll drink to that. Shirley Temple on the rocks for Troy...he's driving. LOL!!!
-F.
OK - This is fun:-)...
Forgive me for going back into Transport of New Jersey (TNJ) days.
1-Flxible 870/Flxible Metro
2-GMC SDM-5302
3-Flxible 53096-8-1 (Suburban)/53102-8-1 (Transit)
4-Honorable mention goes to the MC-9A Jersey Cruiser
Wayne
It's all good; I like those Flxible New Looks and Grumman 870 rehabs as well. Those are the two buses I grew up with down here!
-F.
Well my favorite NJ bus is the Mci 4500 i like the pick up on those things :)
For it as follows 1.All Flxible Metros
2.RTS-06's
3.Flxible New Look Transits
My New Jersey Transit Bus Models are:
1) The 1980 Flxible 870b NYC Rebuilds.
2) 1989 Flxible Metro b's Cause I love driving them
3) 1976 Flxible New Looks I grew up on these. Thanks Grandpa
4) GMC Fishbowls.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Man...EVERYBODY is all about the New Look Flxibles! Amen to that; ours were 1976 models as well...I grew up on these. Flxibles sure were popular among TAs in that particular year!
-F.
OK Trevor....you used to drive for these cats. Lay it on us!
-Fred
How about the old PSC Trolleybusses? I'm not sure what model they had, but the one photo I can find of the Trolleybusses looks nice enough.
I suppose of the current NJT busses, the Flex would be my favorite, with the MCIs second, both I see regularly on the 406 down by my house.
Flxible Metros are my obvious favorite; they are the heart of NJT. :)
-F.
I'm going to try to be as civil as possilbe in this posting as it is a very important issue that is taking place on this board, well in my mind anyway.
I understand that this is a BBS and opinions will run rampant as that is what they are for, the expression and distribution of opinions, and also facts around the world wide web. However, I have noticed that lately that BusTalk has seem to developed a few mini-Historians who have revisionist history and like to rewrite history all together.
I guess this isuue has been going on for awhile as I'm a three year veteran of this board and have seen it off and on, but now it seems to be running rampant.
I have noticed the plethora of Flxible 870/Flx New look worshiping that's been going on lately, intensified by the uncertainty of the relic New Looks at NYBS. That's fine and good. However, I've also noticed little gems like these....
"The 870's were retired to young"
Okay. Although I don't agree, that is fine, I guess. It's just one opinion. Of course over time, that opinion seems to have become fact upon this board as the current belief that the 870's were some type of super bus worthy of this praise.
Let's come to an understanding here. When built, at least 45-65% of these buses had major defects. Let's not gloss over the fact that over 2,000 of these buses had to be sent back to Flxible to be remanufactured. Two thousand buses. That's about 45% of the current NYCTA fleet. Let's not gloss over the fact that 850 of these brand "new" buses were pulled from service causing a major inconvenience for the riding public that was forced back to mothballed buses. And didn't Flxible come to NYC and fix the buses once or NYCTA did in house? Correct me if I'm wrong please. If they did, these buses were delivered in horrible condition, "fixed" and still ran like utter boxes of toilet waste. So they were pulled permanantly.
Of course, becuase NJT was looking for some cheap buses it could buy en masse, they purchased the bargain basement rejects for a steal of a deal. They rehabbed them and they spent thirteen years in service. Bravo. Of course, becuase of this event, the 870s are looked at as a success story. No, they are not. They are just very lucky they weren't turned on their sides at NIMCO in 1984 ready to be the yuppie generation of razor blades.
These buses were put in service, pulled and fixed I believe, sent back into service, pulled, sat for TWO YEARS, rehabbed, ran for 12-13 years. So, these buses had a life span of about 19 years. However, they only spent about 16 of those years serving any sort of purpose. I'm sure many of them sat out for almost a year for the first rehab. These buses only served 16 years of purpose, yet you had GM New Looks in DC that were pushing 40 and served out those 30 hard years of labor. And you all seem to be putting wrecks like the 870s up there with soldiers like the DC New Looks? If those buses could talk, they would curse you for such a travesty.
Now, I also know that some of the Private Lines had fleets of 870s and they kept them. That's fine and dandy, but they really didn't have the mega bucks the TA had to toss these buses out on their asses and buy new ones. So, they made do, but they never went back to Flxible again. Coincidence, maybe. I don't think so though. And perhaps you may think that Privates like these buses, perhaps, but once agin I say no. They just had to keep them until it was feasible to retire them. Why do you think the 1985/86 RTS are showing no signs of slowing down at the Privates? Becuase there's nothing to replace them. Do you think the drivers and mechanics like having to deal with the literal smoke bomb that is the RTS? No. I wouldn't mind though, but then, look at my handle.
And as far as the RTS. I see no love whatsoever. While everyone is on the 870's steering wheel, the real soldiers, the real heroes, the real workhorses of the fleet, the RTS get overlooked because they are so deep in number. And why do you think that is? Why do you think NYCTA purchased the tank, the standard bearer for modern buses, the RTS, for so long until they were forced, FORCED, to purchase something else. Their ultra modern and somewhat sexy looks? No, it was because like HHH, they were that, damn, good (wrestling reference). They were the New Looks of the ADB's no matter how many people say the Classics are the heir to the throne. And just becuase the Canadians didn't want the RTS doesn't take away anything it did ni America. Besides, Canada's fleets consist of geriatric New Looks, Flyers, and the craptacular Orion V. That shows what their tastes are. But then, I also don't see many Flxibles up there either, yet I never see this mentioned. Revisionist history I guess.
I just want to reiterate my stance. I have no problem whatsoever as to people stating their likes and dislikes, but please, let's not gloss over certain issues to appease these opinions. I shall be the first to admit the RTS had/have problems, especially the 01 and 03 models. However, those were addressed almost immediately. Flxibles never really became more than the sidekick to the RTS, a capable bus, but not something that was revolutionary. And it's now being eclipsed by the more rugged and versatile New Flyer D40LF.
But really that's all I have to say. If you have any issues with this issue, feel free.
Well lets add a little more detail to you 870 comments.
The "privates" had the structure problems fixed, the TA didn't want to do that.
LI Bus ran them for a long while, then they found their way to Arrow in CT.
So, I would say, after the initial problems were addressed, they lasted long enough in service, where-ever, to at least get honorable mention.
Now MCI Classics are a bus to match other with, almost a million miles on them !
You might find it enlightening to read Dr. Robert Ebert's book "Flxible: A History of the Bus and the Company", published in 2001. He goes into some detail in the book about the cracked 'A-frame' problem, why it happened, and what was done. From his reasearch, the problem originated because Rohr (Flxible's parent company in the 1970's) failed to properly test the bus while in development. After Grumman purchased Flxible in 1978, they put the Model 870 into production, thinking the design was 'ready to go', and we all know what happened then. By all accounts, Grumman went to great lengths to fix this problem, and apparently the repairs were successful. Dr. Ebert also notes that the 'final straw' that resulted in the 870's being permanently pulled from service by the TA was a bus fire that was caused by the TA's own lack of maintenance on the bus in question, and had nothing to do with the cracked frames or any other design defect. By that point, the 870's had a bad reputation in New York, and Mayor Ed Koch apparently forced the TA to remove the buses.
I don't believe that it's 'revisionist history' to point out that the vast majority of 870's and successor Metros provided reliable service for many years, and in the case of the Flxible Metro, continue to do so.
For what it's worth, I like all buses. I may not care for the looks of some vehicles - the Nova LFS is just butt-ugly, in my opinion - but I still ride them and take pictures of them.
Jim D.
Everybody on this board pratically knows that the NYCTA mishandled the whole Grumman mess by trying to cut corners on the original purchase and on subsequent repairs.Plus the TA already had a sweetheart deal with GM for the RTS-04's already.They it looks that the TA paid top dollar for the RTS and tried to use the spare change for the Grummans.
You are absolutey correct, IIRC, the TA had speced out a lot of things on thier 870s that Grummand-Flxible did not want to do. However because in the industry have a order from New York City Transit is the equivilant of being "The Shit."
Again look at the Privates Grummans, ESPECIALLY the Jamaica Bus units that lasted into the new Millennium. Then NJT taking the TA units and rehabbing them and using them well up until 2001, also Queens City Metro in Cincinnati had some of the TA units that lasted into 2002.
The Grumman fiasco in New York is yes partially on ROHR Flxlibles part, not Grumman Flxibles. BUT the majority is due the sad lack of maintenence and care at the TA for these buses.
My next question is that if the Flxible 870/METRO was so horrible, why did the TA have a order 50 back in 1996 before the doors closed? Hmmmmmmmmmm! My fews on this is not fueled by my love for the 870/METRO but off of pure fact.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
One important correction about NJT's purchase of the former NYCTA Flxible 870 fleet. Flxible, not NJT, rehabbed them with the intention of reselling them to customers as used buses. NJT was not the only customer, even though they bought the bulk of them. Others from that repurchase went to TAs in Ohio, and some went to Puerto Rico. Flxible paid NYCTA the salvage price of $5700 per bus to get them back, they were returned to the Delaware OH plant and rehabbed, then resold as rehabilitated used buses with a full new-bus warranty. NJT then paid Flxible almost as much as NYCTA did 6 years earlier for the same buses (approximately $100,000 per unit).
The 120 buses that became NJT 1500-1619 were considered to be the best of the NYC fleet and required the least rehab. These buses actually retained their front emergency lights alongside the destination sign unless the sign was converted to curtain by NJT or a private operator. The remaining 500 units (2000-series) required more extensive body and chassis work. Only buses originally destined for NJT Bus Operations received new 2+2 seating. The remainder kept their original NYCTA 2+1 or suburban seating.
[NJT was not the only customer, even though they bought the bulk of them. Others from that repurchase went to TAs in Ohio, and some went to Puerto Rico.]
Some of them also went to PVTA in Massachusetts. I believe they ran in Springfield as well as Amherst.
Right, I do know that! I've stated that info in past post. But that wasn't the gist of what I was trying to get across!
Thanks Though!
Trevor
And I believe DoubleA Transportation in Rocky Hill, CT is now using a few in their operations......
Na, you are referring to the recently retired 1989 Flxible Mode 40096-6T and 40102-6T "METRO B" Buses. Those aren't ex-TA.
However in the Grumman department, Double A has ex-CTTransit and ex-Original NJT Grummans in operation.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor,
While we're talking about Flxible 870's and such, this should interest you.
Last month I attended a NY Division ERA meeting. That night, Eric Oszustowicz put on a slide show on his travels and domestic things. He showed a couple of slides of Flxible Metro's in Bejing, China.
Eric stated that they bought the Flxible company (or design) and are making their own Metros in Red China. The side windows and doors are different, but the front is unmistakenly pure Flxible Metro, right down to the classic windshield and black rectangular boxes by the headlights. Did you hear anything about this ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Yeah, to me they just have sub par Flxible "style" fronts, other than that, they are NOT the real deal holyfield Flxibles that I've come to know and love!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Also if the Metro/870 was so bad, why did WMATA, Baltimore, New Jersey Transit and others, bought Flxibles time after time. I think there were more cities with a majority or an all Metro/870 fleet than with an RTS fleet. New York City and Los Angelos bought RTSs by the boat loads, that is why the RTS has sold more units and also the fact that Metros, weren't bought in such big lots as the RTS, if I am correct.
Also WMATA had problems with their RTSs, remember in the late 80s and early 90s when they problems with the rear doors, and actually had to ground them for about a year until the problem was fixed. Also didn't even the NYCTA had early RTSs with rear wheels falling off. Finally, if these buses were so bad, why did the Baltimore MTA 870s lasted over 15 years. If it wasn't for the fact that WMATA is determined to get rid of their buses after 15 years, most of the Flxible Metros would have stayed around for about 20 years.
I am not trying to trash the RTS, they are well built sturdy buses, but I think that to trash the Metro/870 is a wrong thing to do.
Amen! I agree, the RTS is a sterdy bus and so is the Flxible, and I'll even go to say that the Orion 1 is a pretty good solid bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
You are absolutey correct, IIRC, the TA had speced out a lot of things on thier 870s that Grummand-Flxible did not want to do. However because in the industry have a order from New York City Transit is the equivilant of being "The Shit."
Again look at the Privates Grummans, ESPECIALLY the Jamaica Bus units that lasted into the new Millennium. Then NJT taking the TA units and rehabbing them and using them well up until 2001, also Queens City Metro in Cincinnati had some of the TA units that lasted into 2002.
The Grumman fiasco in New York is yes partially on ROHR Flxlibles part, not Grumman Flxibles. BUT the majority is due the sad lack of maintenence and care at the TA for these buses.
My next question is that if the Flxible 870/METRO was so horrible, why did the TA have a order 50 back in 1996 before the doors closed? Hmmmmmmmmmm! My views on this is not fueled by my love for the 870/METRO but off of pure fact.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
What corners were cut on NYCT(A)'s purchase of Grumman buses?
The repairs were made by Grumman -- SEVERAL TIMES. What corners were cut by NYCT(A) on the repairs?
The 1984 RTSs (3400-3799) were not ordered for several weeks after the Grummans were removed from service. By that time, NYCT(A) had ordered and received 837 1981, 325 1982, and 325 1983 RTSs and had gotten good service from them.
As for someone's question about the abortive 1996 Flxible order, 1996 was 17 years after the Grummans were ordered and 12 years after they had been removed from service for the last time. The manufacturer of the buses by that time was the Flxible Division of General Automotive, not Grumman, and the structural design had changed substantially in the intervening years. Additionally, there were problems in the American bus manufacturing industry that led NYCT(A) to be concerned that it would have difficulty obtaining buses in the near future -- the solution was to test the Metro, but Flxible proved NYCT(A)'s concerns to be grounded in reality by going belly-up (the order was then transferred to Orion).
There is conjecture that David Gunn, newly installed as President of NYCT(A), wanted to establish himself as being a take-charge guy and used the Grumman express bus fire as a "last straw" to justify removing the buses from service. Only Mr. Gunn, those working directly for him at the time, and any confidants he might have know for sure. But it is clear that the Grumman 870s' record in New York and elsewhere (Houston, which had to substitute school buses for them at one point, comes to mind; Atlanta does as well) through early 1984 left much to be desired.
David
[But it is clear that the Grumman 870s' record in New York and elsewhere (Houston, which had to substitute school buses for them at one point, comes to mind; Atlanta does as well) through early 1984 left much to be desired.]
Connecticut Transit, which received the 2nd order of Grumman 870's (after Atlanta), was not particularly fond of those buses. Throughout their lives at CTTransit, those buses proved more troublesome, on the whole, than the older fishbowls that the state had bought around 1974.
Interestingly, Atlanta, which received the first order of 870's, didn't seem to have as much trouble with them, and MARTA did eventually get additional Flxible buses, probably the Metro model by then.
Yes, MARTA bought a bunch of Flxible Metros. MARTA also had a lot of NFI D40 & D35, but the Metro were definitely a big part of the fleet... and no RTS anywhere around - unless you count those operated by nearby CCT (Cobb County Transit) who also operated some Flxible Metros.
Wayne
Several times???? When was this???? Are you speaking of those 2,656 buses that were retrofitted? I know of (and read about it at the time) ONE time Grumman repaired the buses and that was when the various agencies pulled them from service. For NYCTA that was 637 buses because the last 200 (those with the W/C lifts) had not been delivered. Then of course Flxible rehabbed them after buying the NYCTA buses, but that's to be expected. I'm sure if I trade in my brand new '02 Honda it would still get some level of reconditioning before it's resold. I think that's to be expected with any vehicle that pretty much sits unused for a long time. I'd bet that during their storage all of the fluids were still in the engines and they weren't started up periodically... something that should be done with any vehicle that not used for a long period of time. Either that or drain the fluids.
Wayne
The buses were returned to Grumman by NYCT(A) at least twice before they were permanently pulled from service. After they were pulled from service, they were sold to General Automotive, which had bought Flxible from Grumman by that time. GA/Flxible rehabbed them and sold them to NJT and other operators.
David
OK - I recall when they were first pulled from service when the cracks showed up and the next and last (again in my recollection) is when they were pulled from service the final time (after the fire on the X-bus) and sat in Brooklyn for a long time and then Flxible took them off the TA hands. Not being sarcastic, but would you tell me about the other times they were puled from service/returned to Grumman/Flxible.
Wayne
It was almost 20 years ago. I've got newspaper articles going back that far, but not enough time to wade through them.
Sorry.
David
I understand. I was going from memory, but I also have many of the NY Daily News clippings from that time as well.
Wayne
Thank you. I believe Mr. Gunn made the right decision. And *I* didn;t even know that Houston had to use school buses. I guess that was until the bulk of the 1982 RTS rolled in.
[Everybody on this board pratically knows that the NYCTA mishandled the whole Grumman mess by trying to cut corners on the original purchase and on subsequent repairs.Plus the TA already had a sweetheart deal with GM for the RTS-04's already.]
My recollection of the two separate times the Grummans were pulled from service is hazy, but I believe when the Grummans were pulled the first time with the A-frame problem, the TA then very quickly signed up with GM for the first order of RTS's (the 1981 models). Because the TA was in dire straights with the Grumman recall, they probably had to pay dearly to get those RTS's as soon as possible. When the Grummans were pulled the 2nd time (for good) after the fire, I remember that it was David Gunn who lead the charge for making sure the Grummans never returned to the TA. I don't remember Mayor Koch having any particular role.
Koch was the one who said "Junk the junk" - but I guess he didn't know any better.
Wayne
Absolutely correct. Mayor Koch had nothing what-so-ever to do with the Flxibles being pulled from service. It was entirely David Gunn's call which I suspect was just a big side show on his part to show everybody he was the man in charge making the big (and ultimately bad) decisions.
BIG AL
You guys can reminisce about the Grumman-Flxible 870 fiasco all you want. Me, I'm just looking forward to watching the exact same thing happen with the Orion VIIs - though I'll bet New Jersey won't take those.
He must have jumped on the Flixble Metro bandwagon when he ran WMATA in the 80s and early 90s, because most of the Metros bought was when he ran WMATA.
You have a point because he went to WMATA right after he left NYCTA.
Wayne
I think it's unfortunate that you see this as a major issue, because I really don't. I think B/T in summary is just a bunch of folks discussing what they like/dislike. I understand that often enough there are indisputable facts presented here also, but usually we're just putting our individual likes/dislikes/opinions out there.
I've never cared much for the RTS, but it won't bother me if the majority of BusTalkers actually liked the RTS. I guess another example is... I now live in the DC area, but I still like my NY sports teams and it doesn't bother me that nearly eveyone around me wanted the NY Giants to lose last weekend.
There's no denying that the RTS is a serious workhorse, but for me... I prefer the 870/Metro when WMATA still had RTS - I'd almost always pass one up in favor of anything else. I'm not a B/O or even the transit industry so I'd say I'm definitely not qualified to comment on the buses from the B/O point of view. However, I've driven GMC fishbowls, GMDD fishbowls, RTS, Grumman 870 and MC-9 and 102A3, 102C3, and 102D3 and to me: I think the 102C3 and D3 were clearly the most comfortable - but again... I just drove them and never had to spend 8-hours with one.
Also - I grew up un NYC around NYCTA and it's often silly practices and the Grumman 870 crisis just beyond silly IMHO. I think NYCTA simply refused to acknowledge their subpar maintenance pratices. Grumman recalled 2,656 buses and 637 were NYCTA buses (the others had yet to be delivered), 230 from SCRTD and I think 205 were from CTA, but I think they did their part when the problems arised. But even NYCTA tried to come back to Flxible years later. While I'm on the topic of NYCTA old minatenance... My feeling is that NYCTA's Flxible and GMC new looks probably would've last longer had they rec'd proper (or even better) maintenance. Most of the new looks came through those turbulent years of deferred-maintenance of the 70's. When the WMATA buses were in NYC I used to regularly go out and find them on the M100 and they felt much better than the typical NYCTA bus.
Anyways... That's my 2-cents worth.
Wayne
>>"While I'm on the topic of NYCTA old minatenance... My feeling is that NYCTA's Flxible and GMC new looks probably would've last longer had they rec'd proper (or even better) maintenance. Most of the new looks came through those turbulent years of deferred-maintenance of the 70's. When the WMATA buses were in NYC I used to regularly go out and find them on the M100 and they felt much better than the typical NYCTA bus."<<
I said the same thing, had the Flxibles [especially the 1977 New Looks] been maintained properly and blitzed like the GM's were, they would still be running today and there wouldn't have been as much RTS oredrs over the years or it would still be manufactured now. In 1995 it was time for the GM New looks to go, some of them were pushing 30 years old and while they may of still had life, that was it for them IMO but it was a glorious run. I feel they got rid of the earler RTS too early, specifically the 1984 and 1985 GM's. Thats the problem with the MTA, they get rid of perfectly usable buses too early w/o ordering a sufficient amount of buses to replace the whole fleet of buses that were scrapped, just my opinion.
NYCT(A)'s 1977-78 Flxibles WERE given a "Blitz"-type overhaul in-house in the mid-1980s. The air conditioning was one of the few things that was not touched. Still, a decision was made to scrap the buses after about 15 years of service.
David
Did future RTS orders and the 1993 Orions lead to the 'death' of the 1977/78 Flxible New Looks [I think this was part or most of it] or was it "out with the old and in with the new".
I believe that it is not fair to blame the TA for the entire 870 Grumman mess.
Lets get to the facts.
1-There were two models of the Grumman 870 built. The TA basically received the first model as did other transit agencies in Atlanta and Houston that i recall. All 3 agencies had problems with this model bus
2-The 870 Grummans that the private companies and Long Island Bus (then MSBA) received were improved models
3-At that time the law required that equipment purchases had to go to the lowest bidder. The TA had no choice but to accept the Grumman bid because it was lower than the GMC bid.
BTW- Because of the Grumman fiasco and the problems with the R-46 subway cars which happened at the same time in the early 1980's the law was changed to allow a public authority to make the best deal possible
4-Believe it or not the TA was not the first transit agency to junk the Grummans. I recall that one other agency in a southern state also junked their Grummans before the TA did.
5-Green Bus Lines actually purchased 10 of the older Grumman 870's from Houston. They were numbered 540 to 549 and did not have electric signs. They were gone within a couple of years before Green retired their Grummans which were numbered 550 to 589
6- At the time Grumman did not blame the TA for the problems with the buses. They blamed the City of New York for the poor condition of the streets
I recall riding on a Grumman in 1984 after the TA pulled their buses from service on the Q-60 route on the Queensboro Bridge and i thought the bus was going to fall apart on the bridge.
These are the facts.
Thank You
I don't think anyone here totally blames the TA, but I remember that the TA was saying that the Grumman 870 was not fit for duty in NYC. That to me sounds like they're saying the bus is subpar. Again we all know that the buses had problems as they were built, but I think that Grumman did their part and NYCTA tried to use the original problem as a reason to condemn the buses. SCRTD, MARTA returned to service and operated for many years. I haven't been to Altanta in a long time, but I know their 870's were still on the road in 1993/94. I not sure but I vaguely remember hearing that CTA had 205 870's went bact to Grumman as well to be retrofitted. I know it's basically water under the bridge, but again Grumman did their part... too bad NYCTA didn't do their part.
My undersntanding is that the NYCDOT privates 870's were an add on to the NYCTA order and they (along with 200 NYCTA) had not been delivered at the time that NYCTA removed the buses from service.
Wayne
Wayne
Grumman's problems with the Flexibles, and lack of ability to make a profit from them & the step vans & canoes is why they aren't on Long Island anymore :-(
Here in Philly, SEPTA developed an EXTREMELY NASTY bias against Flxible after the disastrous orders of the 1970's especially the 1973 order that were "lemons" (in SEPTA's opinion-but at the time, their maintenance practices left little to be desired). When David Gunn came here in '79, he first tried to clean up our very messy maintenance situation. When the RTS arrived, they were the first buses to go under the QC (Quality Control) program. Then Gunn was responsible for all of the Neoplans that took over the SEPTA fleet, first by ordering the AK's (8285-8434), then joining the statewide pool purchase, (won by Neoplan. I wonder if Flxible had won this contract, would Gunn have pulled out if it happened?). The QC program was set up for 1) The RTS, then 2) Rebuilt Fishbowls, 3) any new buses subsequently purchased, and last 4) the Flxibles. In fact, during the 83-87 period, all of the buses sent to the scrap pile were Flxibles New Looks, mostly the 1973 and 75 models.
Speaking of the Neoplans, a driver told me that Neoplan didn`t get their buses right until the 8601-8725/13xx order. After that, Neoplan had SEPTA's heart lock stock and barrel.
So if you guys in NYC moaned about Gunn`s bias against Flxible, remember it started when he got to Philly. Apparently, he lost it when he got to DC.
I'm wondering how much ordering of Flxibles in DC was done by the GM before Gunn, Ms. Carmen Turner. She really helped the rehabbing process of the GM New Looks and the Flx New Looks. She also had a way of dealing with Congress. I miss her. She was working with the Smithsonian when she passed away several years ago. This is why the Smithsonian stop has a dedication to her.
By the time Gunn came here, the Neoplans DC had were junk, the RTS's were throwing people out of their back doors, so all that was really left were the Flxibles. Almost seems like a last resort, but there was already such history between WMATA and Flxible by that time.
Yeah, what irony, WMATA which had a stellar rep for maintenance, couldn't keep up their Neoplans (They were the shabbiest buses in the fleet), while SEPTA (with a previously crappy rep, now a hell of a lot better), had the best -looking buses in the business.
Yeah, the main problem was the hairline fractures that developed, then they rusted out pretty good. But, in Philly they were and still are a mainstay. We'll see what happens with the Neoplan artics here. Its good to give them a second chance, just like NYC almost did with the Metro before Flxible went out of business.
If I recall, only ONE person was thrown out of the back door. But I could be wrong.
One person was thrown out as the bus went around Chevy Chase Circle. That incident, along with other malfunctions of the back doors caused the RTS to be pulled until they could be replaced with the back doors that you manually had to be pushed. The back door on an RTS I was on back in 1991 on the Q2 also flew open on Viers Mill Road causing the bus to come to a sudden halt since the interlock was triggered. The driver pushed it shut, then tried to drive it again and it flew open again, so we were booted from the bus until the next bus picked us up. Nobody was hurt, or anything.
I really wish WMATA would have given the RTS another shot, but they chose to go to Orion when the next non-Flxible order came through. Of course, I'd rather have a bus that the driver finds more comfortable than anything and hopefully, that is why WMATA has the buses it does.
So as a driver, how would you rate each bus type for driver comfort?
-F.
Well, I only had experience with Blue Bird, Thomas and Flixble. The Blue Bird had a lot of leg room, but the seat was so stiff and uncomfortable, plus you would merely tap the gas and the thing would just lurch forward, so I didn't like them, plus the tail swing was bad. The Thomas' had awful steering. You had to really crank that wheel around to turn. I blew a turn coming out of the fuel area once and I had to have a spotter back me up since we weren't allowed to back up on our own. That was embarrassing. The Flxibles, for me, were great, especially the 1991 buses. The steering was like butter. I could use one finger to get the wheel to turn. Of course, I never did that with passengers on. : ) The 1986 Flxibles weren't good for me with the brakes being so hard on your knee and the seats didn't adjust anymore so they bounced a lot. The newer ones we had, you could fill and reduce the air pressure. I never tried an RTS, but I did sit in the drivers seat once and it was ok from that perspective. Driving it 8-10 hours a day is different though, I don't know what that would be like.
Yes Flxible Steering is the best. Like the Metro b for example one finger is all it takes to turn this baby. You can whip this bus into any turn with a problem. The Novabus RTS' however are another story, They suck to turn! The driver's seat are uncomfortable. Shitty Mirrors! The driver's area is too exposed too. Man if they were out to assasinate us drivers, the RTS would be the easiest bus to get a shot off, the drivers area is just too open.
Tony M.
Um, once I had saidd I had seen a driver turn a Flx with one finger and someone called me a liar or said it was impossible. Anyway, I'm glad I got some back up on that issue.
But the Flx is a loose bus. It turns loose, it just feels loose and springy. The RTS feels really solid, like the D40LF does today.
Ditto here. The Flx Metros in Blacksburg were also 1986 vintage, and I LOVED driving those...felt right at home there. I am going there for my birthday tonight and may call them to see if they can slip one out on a route...they have been sitting at the grounds as trippers lately as every fixed route is now all New Flyer LFs.
Hopefully they can make an exception for a former driver...after all, I am 26 today, and what better way to celebrate than to ride one of the good old 2600s!
-F.
I drive a few types of buses, including two real types: Flxible Metros and Gillig low floors.
Our Flxibles are extremely quirky, but generally comfortable to drive. They are easy to steer (the steering is too loose for my liking on a few of 'em), easy to slow down, and give a reasonably smooth ride. Also, I really like the fact that our Flxs have totally clear, totally untinted windows. Makes for a much brighter, more upbeat interior atmosphere.
The Gilligs are another story. First, the steering wheel is too small and does not adjust very much. Second, the right turn signal foot switch is about two millimeters from the base of the steering column, leaving roughly no room for your left foot when you're on the signal. Third, the switch panel is too high up and also has a squared edge - I hit my left arm on it every time I drive one. The Flxs, on the other hand, have a slanted switch panel to prevent such discomfort. Fourth, your right arm is on its own. The Flxibles have a bar between the step platform and the driver's seat; it's a great place to put your right hand if you want to take it off the wheel for a second. The Gilfs have no such thing - keep your right hand on the wheel at all times or let it dangle beside you. Fifth, the steering is really tight and requires a lot of effort. Overall, the handling is much worse than the Flxibles. Sixth, it is virtually impossible to be "smooth" in a Gillig. The brakes are jerky and loud and they don't really let you ease into a stop. Finally (at least for now!), the driver's workstation is very dark and entirely isolated from the rest of the bus.
Let me put it short and sweet: Driving a Gillig depresses me. Driving a Flxible put me in high spirits. And I'm not just saying that because I am a bus fan!
Sounds like you have a case of "Flx-itis" like I do. Ours is one of many cities that went from all Flxibles to all Gilligs. You would have loved it here about 10 or 15 years ago, but not these days. :)
-F.
WMATA didn't really need anymore RTS buses. You can't have them everywhere, Though I wish they opted for D40LF's instead of the Orions. Oh well. Those early WMATA RTS did prove themselves though. lasting a good 22 years.
And one more thing, I remember once on an RTS here in Houston,(#2070) the driver triggered the interlock at about 50mph and the bus just coasted. No sudden halt or anything. The engine stop screaming and just relaxed until it stopped. Pretty wierd from my perspective.
I remember hearing that Cleveland's RTA had problems with their early RTS buses - apparently, they were used on express runs and the wind was forcing the doors open while at speed. I'm not sure what the fix was.
Also, the person who told me about that also said that the drivers nicknamed the 40-footer RTS buses 'rats' (or was it RaTS???).
And the 35-footers? Since they were samller, they were nicknamed 'mice'!
JD
STORY HERE
Peace,
ANDEE
Saw this during my trip to work. Orion V #444 on the M104 was having trouble moving down 7th Avenue to 42nd Street. Sure was a lot from the stack. hope its not out of service.
LI Bus finally got the schedule for their new route up on the web (it started back on Sunday).
Interesting notes/questions -- the route is up Brookside Avenue to Uniondale Avenue and then following the route of the N45 to Roosevelt Field (with the exception of using Corporate Drive into the Mall rather than Stewart Avenue.
Service will be 7 days, with weekday service being every 30 minutes for most of the day and also running until past 10 PM. This is far better service than many of the other LI Bus lines.
I don't really understand the routing. Brookside Avenue through Freeport and Roosevelt is entirely residential. I wonder if these folks will object to having a bus route on their street. Also, I wonder where the ridership will come from. Over on Main Street and Nassau Road, the N40/41 is one of the highest ridership lines they have (possibly the highest). Using that routing up to Uniondale Avenue would seem to both put more people on the new route and ease some of the burden on the 40/41.
I thought that a Freeport - Roosevelt Field line was a great idea, but I really don't get why they're routing it this way.
CG
Maybe their routing manager messed up! seriously, I'd love to have that job... :-)
"Maybe their routing manager messed up! seriously, I'd love to have that job... :-)"
What kind of background does someone need to get into that type of work? You should go for it.
Then apply for the job. With your extensive knowledge about LI Bus, most of it previously published, of everything about this operation, you could solve all of the problems which you consistently and unceasingly complain about. In taking this job, you could satisfy not only yourself but all LI Bus riders. Just think, you could run a 100% perfect operation! But to start out, I suggest you first run the Complaint Department and work your way up to Operations. With your vast knowledge of how to complain about every little thing about LI Bus, your candidacy for an opening in this department would probably be welcomed with open arms. And, if you need a secretary, perhaps they'd let you hire an Oriental.....
Good morning
Can anyone assist me in updating my routing material s for the L I Bus Routes
My material is fairly current---to 2000 or so
I figured ,,with the amount of material I have published ,,I can use your assistance,,this time around
Thanks
Steve
NYC FDNY
914 329 7489
Steve,
When will your website be finished. I'm hearing it's going to be better than before, true?
Ray
hi
how is everyone
I am in the process of working on the LI Bus Routes,,everything I have ,,including the latest Bee Line Destination Signs,,,etc
If anyone can assist me in LI Bus Routings,.,,etc..Please call me at 914 329 7489
I must say,,however,,that noone has answered my request(S),,and this I am very disappointed in,,considering the amount of material that I have donated over the last few years,,before the end of the WEB TV crap,,,
I have readings and routings for ALL DOT Carriers,,NJT..BEE Line,,NYCT routes,,---the reading have the CODES ,,LEFT OUT
Take care
Steve
NYC Fire Dept
Steve,
I can help you if I could but I'm not from Nassau County. I can tell you about the NEW N43 but that's about it. Sorry I could not be more help.
Ray
Please respond directly to Smokiecat54@aol.com (new)
ANy info would be appreciated,,at this point
BTW ,,I am working on CT Transit,,3 Divisions
(routings)
and again,,I have readings,,without the codes,,for all other carriers inthe Metro and Westchester Cry ---very very updated
Steve
HI all
I recently saw or found a website highliting Jackets,,hats,etc,,showing Buses,,
One particular jacket showed 5 buses,,late models,,in a large circle ( green Bus line jacket s were also found)
The items were being sold in ENY Depot and Manhattanville--
Does anyone know where i can find and purchase these jackets,,tee shirts,,---
Thanks
Steve
FDNY
Oh ,,I forgot to mention,,I lost the address or URL of this site
Steve
Is there a bus or bus with a certain engine, that you haven't rode but would like to ride or would have like to ride.
Mine would have been:
1)Neoplan 460AN with either a DD60 and a CAT engine
2)NABI 45' Compobus
3)Grumman 870
4)RTS with a C8.3 and an M11 engine
5)Either a Volvo(YES A VOLVO) artic or 40' bus
I'd say...
1-Flxible Metro with Cummins M11/ISM
2-Orion V/VI with Cummins ISC/Voith Combo
3-NABI with DD 8V-71N
Wayne
1. Definitely the AMG Metropolitan
2. Neoplan AN440
3. Any Old Look or similar type
4. Gillig Advantage
5. Orion III/Ikarus 286 (yes the Orion III)
I'd say the RTS Articulated would have been fun to ride if it was put on the streets. Also, the GM Classic Artic. I don't like Gilligs all that much, but can't wait to ride the Univ. of MD Gilligs when they have their 30th anniversery bash and roadeo in April.
I forgot to add...
GMDD Articulated
Classic Artic
MCI MC-6 w/ the DD 12V-71N (even though it's a strange looking puppy)
Eagle M15
Wayne
The New Flyer VikingD45 on the X51,NJTransit Artrics and Bee-Lines Neoplan Artrics.
1.)D60LF
2.)Prevost H3-45
3.)Prevost H3-60
4.)Neoplan Artic with CAT engine
5.)GMC Fishbowl (rode one once when I was about 5, but unfortunately, I don't remember anything about it)
GMC Fishbowl (rode one once when I was about 5, but unfortunately, I don't remember anything about it)
It's not too late! Toronto and some other Canadian cities still operate honest-to-goodness Fishbowls.
JD
Yes...and the Ohio Museum Of Transportation has a restored 1959 Fishbowl from Cleveland that they use for excursions. I rode it two summers ago; it sounds much like the 6v-powered Flx New Looks I grew up with, only you hear a more truck-like roar from the engine. Nice!
-F.
Aren't the Vikings still on the X51?
Mine would be A FISHBOWL with black around the windows (GBL, of course. And yes, they ran until the early/mid 1990's. So did NYCT. Them, too.) I sat on one once, but it never moved :(
We have one in our museum that was originally from Richmond, VA but later served Blacksburg Transit at Virginia Tech; it is still in BT colors which includes black around the windows. Best of all, it's a 5303...with over one million miles on its original 6V71 engine!
We also have a rare 3302A "Baby Fishbowl" that is powered by a Toroflow 8.2L Detroit Diesel. Basically, this was the Cadillac 500 CID V8 that was optional in Eldorados through 1976, only converted to diesel. It also sports a four-speed automatic transmission!
-F.
Yea they still are,but I don't take the X51 that often and when I do its always a MCI D4500.
I have never rode a Flxible Metro with a 6V92; everything I ever rode usually had a 6V71 behind it, which sounds good in those. Also, when I went to DC in 1997, I rode 9813, which had either an L-10 or an M-11..I'm not sure, but it did not sound like a Flx to me at all. Also, I rode an ex-VTA Metro from California that had an L-10 and a Voith, but it was very quiet and smooth. I have heard recordings of a 6V92-powered Flx but have to ride one just to see what it's like.
Also, I have never rode a New Flyer with a 6V92, or any bus with a 6V92/Voith combo...and late Canadian Fishbowls with a VH-9 transmission would surely be a treat...never been on one before.
As far as a Grumman 870, come on down to Virginia sometime...we have a restored example in our museum fleet and can take you for a ride. :)
-F.
One bus system that I wish I could ride would be the Univesity of Maryland bus system. Of course that will always be a big wish, unless I decide to get another undergraduate, or higher degree(that won't be happening soon, as I am still paying for the one I got back in the mid 90s.
I think you can actually ride the shuttle from the College Park Metro if you're a non student since people take it to go to games and things like that!
He's right. Comcast Center shuttle buses and the CP Metro routes are open to everyone. Other routes like Springhill Lake, Adelphi North, and the always wonderful Circuit require UMD ID
Ahh, the old Circuit. I used to drive that thing on Friday and Saturday nights! After having my bus pelted with bottle caps and other things during a huge block party, I traded that shift with the guy who drove the Graduate Housing route. Much more tame! LOL However, I did throw the bus in reverse, which was illegal, but I wanted to scare the little darlings. Just made the bus go 'beep, beep,beep' and the backed off a little. I then went around the corner and told the PG County Cops they needed to go over there and stop them. Next time around, party gone and about 30 campus police officers at the top of the hill just eyeballing my bus to see who was on.
And ACTION! lol. Well today I finally went to Palisades but I got back a little disappointed. I started my trip by going up to Bedford Pk where I took the Bee-Line route 20,Neoplan Artic #572 to White Plains.Then I waited there for the TappanZee Express bus which came about 10mins later,MCI Cruiser #RC141.The trip was nice,especially over the bridge.That was a really good scenic view of the river and the two counties surrounding it.Got to the mall at around 1:10 and went straight for the food court to have myself a Gyro sandwich from Absoulte Greek.mmmm god,I love those gyro's! After that I walked the entire mall taking some time to take a few hacks at the batting cage... damn that didn't go well,only hit 2 balls >.<
I was at the bus stop at 4:10 and I took the 20 bus that was supposed to leave at that time,MCI Crusier #8477,one problem.Mr.Logan wasn't the driver.If I remember correctly he once said before that he had a plate with a name on it above the window and that his buses were always clean.I saw neither so I figured it wasn't him. What happened Trevor? Are you on vacation or something? Since today didnt't go well...when are you doing a run on the 11C from either the GWB or from Spring Valley? I'd like to get another chance to get a ride with you.
I Must Apologize, I had some serious car trouble last night that leaked into today which kept me from work, again I mus apologize.
I do on trip on the 11C on Thursday and Friday and I'm on the 11C all day saturday!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Can you tell me your 11C schedule for those 3 days? and does that pertain to every Thursday,Friday and Saturday? I'll take a trip to Nanuet Mall one of those days.
Thursday and Friday I relieve the 1:45pm 11C in Westwood and come back down as a 11A.
Saturday I'm the 5:45p and 8:45p 11C From The Bridge
& the 4:20p and 7:24p 11C From The Nanuet Mall Back To The Bridge!
Trevor
Alrighty,then expect me to be at the Nanuet Mall at 4:20p maybe this Saturday or if not then next Saturday.
I'll take the 1:05p 20 out of the PA which arrives at Nanuet at 2:43p and be ready to catch your bus at 4:20p. Hmmm,I got a question,if I asked for a transfer on the 20 from the PA to Nanuet and used it on your trip to the bridge,would you accept it? This also includes any other time I may decide to do this and it isn't on the day your working the 11C.I really hate to have to pay the $5.25 to the bridge.I feel that paying $5.85 just to go to the mall is good enough.
maybe you should wait until the Bee Lines get MetroCards, then you could use your unlimited cards
Ironic, I'm headed to Palisades Center tomorrow, though not via the Red and Tan. I'll be taking the MNRR Hudson line to Tarrytown and catch the TZX. Going back the same way.
Yeah, I'll accept it, I can ring it in on the register but you still have to pay a difference!
Don't worry we'll deal with it when the time comes!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Well it won't be today.Next Saturday hopefully.Today is gonna be way to cold for my liking and I don't go out when it feel's like I'm living in Russia outside.
And ACTION! lol. Well today I finally went to Palisades but I got back a little disappointed. I started my trip by going up to Bedford Pk where I took the Bee-Line route 20,Neoplan Artic #572 to White Plains.Then I waited there for the TappanZee Express bus which came about 10mins later,MCI Cruiser #RC141.The trip was nice,especially over the bridge.That was a really good scenic view of the river and the two counties surrounding it.Got to the mall at around 1:10 and went straight for the food court to have myself a Gyro sandwich from Absoulte Greek.mmmm god,I love those gyro's! After that I walked the entire mall taking some time to take a few hacks at the batting cage... damn that didn't go well,only hit 2 balls >.<
I was at the bus stop at 4:10 and I took the 20 bus that was supposed to leave at that time,MCI Crusier #8477,one problem.Mr.Logan wasn't the driver.If I remember correctly he once said before that he had a plate with his name on it above the window and that his buses were always clean.I saw neither so I figured it wasn't him. What happened Trevor? Are you on vacation or something? Since today didnt't go well...when are you doing a run on the 11C from either the GWB or from Spring Valley? I'd like to get another chance to get a ride with you.
Something was seriously wrong with coach 5350 this morning. The problem started after the bus made a sharp turn, and was at Maximum Angle for a long time ( a good 30 secs).After the bus straightened out, there was still a light on the instrument panel. The B\O identified the light as ( something) angle ( is there another light on the instrument panel dealing with angles, besides "MAX ANGLE"?). Anyway, the B\O radioed for help, saying that he had "No power". The only way the bus did move was by the B\O repeatedly stomping on the pedal, and still then, he told me that we were moving in the vicinity of 3mph. The "Control"'s solution was to shut the bus down for 2 minutes and then put it in fast idle. THis didn't work, and after a long ordeal of restarts and radio talk, the bus was OOS and all passangers had to take the next bus. Talk about a crappy morning...
Does anyone have connections to Gun Hill, because I'm rather curious as to what happened with this bus.
Thanks in advance!
When Queens Transit and Steinway Transit were transformed into Queens Surface, what happened to their bus fleets? Were any coaches renumbered? Also, I remember that in the late 1980's Boston-area operators MetroBus and Crystal Transport picked up some GMC New Looks from NYC-area private operators. Where those buses sold as a result of the Queens changes?
Sorry for all the questions - appreciate any insight. Thanks!
Jim D.
Queens Transit and Steinway Transit had one owner before they became Queens Surface. Also the fleets came out of one garage once the Steinway bldg. went bye bye. So, nothing happened to the fleet.
That is depending on exactly what date in time you are talking about.
Earlier in time you had two sets of management, latter one, but one top boss from the 30s. This same owner also ran a number of RxRs in NY State, the Mid-Atl & Mid-West (ARK, OAKL, etc.) One of his money makes was the lease of wooden box cars.
If i recall correctly the Queens Surfice ownership did not purchase the buses from the Salzberg interests. Since at the time of the formation of Queens Surfice both Queens and Steinway did indeed have mostly RTS and Grummans that were city owned already.
There were some GMC New Looks that were owned by the Salzbergs but they were leased to the Queens Surfice ownership until New York City delivered the MCI one door coaches that Queens Surfice now uses.
At that time then the Salzberg interests sold the GMC New Looks they were stored at the old Steinway garage which the Salzbergs also retained ownership of.
Thank You
There were some GMC New Looks that were owned by the Salzbergs but they were leased to the Queens Surfice ownership until New York City delivered the MCI one door coaches that Queens Surfice now uses.
I'm guessing that those buses were the ones that ended up in Boston for MetroBus and Crystal. I believe they were model 5308's, and they were air-conditioned. You could always tell one of them from a distance, because they had the black anodized window frames.
Jim D.
The GMDD buses were 102-inch wide (T8H-5307A).
The GMC buses were a few years older and 96-inches wide (T8H-5308A)
Wayne
As Thurston's response suggests, the Queens-Steinway merger was pretty much a non-event as far as fleets were concerned. When they operated as separate companies, there was no overlapping of fleet numbers; in other words, the fleets were numbered as if they were one fleet.
If I remember correctly, the companies had a motley fleet in the mid-1980's, the worst buses being replaced when the RTS's arrived. The better of the companies' new looks were probably retired, at least in part, when the Classics arrived in the late 1980's. That is probably when many new looks were sold on the used bus market.
So whatever became of the Grummans that were run by each respective company? I have seen pics of the Steinways...very pretty buses.
-F.
I wondered for a long time too. I used to ride Queens/Steinway Grumman 870's regularly and then one day they were gone. What a sad day that was. Triboro Coach 870's always looked. Nearly everything at Green Bus Lines usually looked not-too-good including their 870's. It seem that the Grumman 870 and the GMDD fishbowls all went away at the same time. I'm not sure when they went out of serive, but Jamaica kept their Grumman 870 in service right into the late 90's (anyone know exactly how long they stayed around???) and they never had any GMDD fishbowls.
Wayne
Jamaica got additional money from nycDOT to modify/upgrade their 870s.
They were replaced at the other depots.
Jamaica kept their 870s until 2001. You were guaranteed to find them operating on the Q113Ltd. signed as "Express Bus".
[So whatever became of the Grummans that were run by each respective company?]
Grummans from both Steinway and Queens Transit wound up in the joint fleet. My recollection is that most of them were in use until the 1993 RTS order came in. I don't remember whether any lasted beyond then, but I don't think so (as I remember Jamaica Bus being the last of the NYCDOT operators to use the Grummans).
its amazing that the Grummans never made it over to Command. in fact, i dont remember ever seeing them at Command. Im just curious. In the next DOT bus order, will Jamaica Bus Lines see Orion V for service, or is the primary order going to Green, or is everyone waiting to see when and if the privates are taken over.
Triboro is overdue for some new buses also - I think Green and QSC got a lot more Orions last time. Some of those GM RTS buses are shot. I had heard that Triboro may get some MCI's for Express service freeing up th orions tio replace some of the GMC's - Has anyone elses heard that ?
As Thurston's response suggests, the Queens-Steinway merger was pretty much a non-event as far as fleets were concerned. When they operated as separate companies, there was no overlapping of fleet numbers; in other words, the fleets were numbered as if they were one fleet.
Just to clarify - if I'm researching bus production lists, and I see RTS or Grumman buses delivered to Queens Transit and Steinway Transit, then those buses carried the same fleet numbers in the Queens Surface fleet. Correct?
Jim D.
[if I'm researching bus production lists, and I see RTS or Grumman buses delivered to Queens Transit and Steinway Transit, then those buses carried the same fleet numbers in the Queens Surface fleet. Correct?]
Yes, that is correct.
How about 1 more response.
Queens Surface Corp. (QSC) offically took over operation on 7/1/88. The former Queens Transit (QTC) new looks were leased. But the Salzbergs took advantage and asked for a lot of money since QSC was in dire need of equipment. The owner of QSC then started to make bus deals so he could return the QTC new looks and reduce costs.
He made a deal with New York Bus Service (NYBS), with thre consent of NYCDOT. All 20 of the NYCDOT-owned deck and a halfs at NYBS (1400's) went to QSC in exchabnge for 9 brand new MCI Classics. Since the MCI order was being manfactured at the time, the factiory made 9 less QSC and 9 more NYBS. Then QSC also purchased several older fishbowls from NYBS. At the same time, Liberty Lines Transit was getting their delivery of 1990 Flex's and were selling the equipment that the Flex's replaced (the last of Liberty Transit-owned buses. I believe that QSC purchased 7-10 1975 & 1976 TDH 5308's. Then QSC purchased a few buses from Red & Tan, Rockland Coaches abnd don't forget the 35-foot new look Flex's from Albany. So with all of these purchases of used equipment, QSC told QTC to take their high priced new looks back. That is why the QTC equipment was in storage for a short while. They were up for sale.
At one time (1992) QSC had 18 different types/model buses. Can you imagine the parts room that was needed!
Then when QSC received 115 brand new RTS's, and all of the older equipment was replaced, including the Grumanns. Incidently at the end of their service life at QSC, in the summer time, the Grumanns could only be used in the a.m. The A/C's did not work and could not be used on the hot afternoons as the windows did not open sufficiently to keep the inside air somewhat bearable.
So there it is from what I know. Hope you found this interesting.
Very interesting - thanks for the insight!
I always wondered why the Queens Transit buses were available for sale in the late 1980's. In the early 1980's, the Boston-area private operators had been buying 1960's-era GM and Flxible New Looks for their various shuttles (notably a large quantity of ex-Toronto buses). Then, all of a sudden, those much-newer ex-Queens buses came onto the scene.
JD
eBay Item Numbers 2153475543, 2153476497, 2153477672, 2153478222, 2153478772, 2153479280, 2153479576, 2153480092 and 2153480485. Includes Hino and Orion I demonstrators, MSBA articulated, Surface Transit , Westchester Surface Macks and Washington DC buses operating in New York City in the 1980s.
Just read on WUSA's website that the fare increase on the table is to raise bus fares from $1.10 to $1.30 and raise the base rush hour rail fare from $1.10 to $1.40 and possibly increase parking at stations an extra $1. I know with the threat of fares increasing in NY, the bus fare here is paltry, but it is still a 30% increase. As infrequently as I ride, I'm more than willing to pay the extra fare, but I feel bad for those that have to take this everyday who already have a hard enough time paying the current fare. But, fares have remained steady for several years, so it was bound to increase. Of course, making it $1.25 would have made it more convenient to grab a quarter rather than having to get a quarter and a nickel, but whatever.
I meant 20% for bus, 30% for rail. It doesn't matter, WMATA is not really on my favorite list anymore anyway. I used to like to joyride all the time, now I just drive since it isn't as pleasant, the drivers aren't as friendly and the customers are increasingly rude.
Yeah...unpleasant drivers can make for a hellacious bus ride. I got on one of their NABIs in Chinatown for the pure sake of riding; I had never rode an artic before. The driver was very rude and haughty to us, and the passengers were no better. Fortunately, the lady driving the Flxible Metro back towards the Smithsonian was pleasant and a lot more courteous to myself and my girlfriend at the time. If it wasn't for that and the Flxes, WMATA would be on my "feces list" as well.
Recently, I ran into that here in my hometown; we have been having problems with our SmartBoxes, and as a result, they are covered up, and the fare is dropped into a separate metal box. I did so yesterday, and the driver got surly with me, claiming she didn't see the dollar drop in with the quarter. I assured her I did, and she said, "Well, I didn't SEE it!". I firmly said "Look, if you don't believe me, I'll throw in another one." She then said "Well, alright, but just remember next time". I understand keeping fares in check, but it isn't my fault that she wasn't paying attention!
Later on that day, I had a lot on my mind, and the best therapy for that is a bus ride, so I hopped on a Peak Service route with a fellow busfan as it has my favorite ones on it. Usually the driver pays no mind if you ride around one way, but halfway between timecheck and back to the station, the driver looks up and asks if we missed our stop; I told her we were simply riding around. She said "Well, y'all can't just ride around...you have to get off SOMETIME!". Excuse me? I am a paying customer that is bothering no one. It's not like I'm smoking dope back there or cutting up the seats! I was already feeling bad about a loss in the family, and that just ruined my day.
Here's the big picture; transit is already suffering a bad reputation and dwindling ridership enough without people having to deal with rude drivers. First impression of public transportation begins at the DOOR...and that is exactly where some operators need to leave their attitudes before they get in that bus.
-F.
Oh yes...and don't even get me started about Greyhound.
-F.
Haha, yeah, I've heard. I mean, WMATA is the system I've grown up with and ridden for almost 32 years (well, it was DC Transit for the first two years, but that doesn't count!) and I was also once a bus driver and I know how hard it is to deal with dumb passengers and traffic and all of that, but its just aggravating when they don't even look at you when you board or get off the bus. I'm just blowing off steam on that. I respect bus drivers to the fullest extent. In all the bus riding I've done, I find NYCT drivers the most knowledgeble and friendly. In 1997, I was up in the city for the first time in about 15 years and I had a lot of time to do things since my meeting wasn't until the next day and I took the M6 from my hotel to around 34th street and I asked the driver where such and such was and he used the speaker to let me know where to exit. Little things like that go a long way.
In my perspective, Ride-On seems to have the most courteous drivers. Drivers would actually GREET me as I board the bus, some would even say "Good night" as people got off. Today, I saw a driver showing a passenger where Edmonston drive was on route 46 and the best place to get off. I also remember back in April or so, there was a driver who drove the 11:04 AM run on route 56 on Saturdays. As we leave Rockville station, he uses the PA system to announce to passengers :
"Good morning everybody, welcome aboard Ride-on. My name is _______ ______ and I will be your bus driver for this morning. This is route 56 heading for Lakeforest Mall Transit center. This bus will go down Monroe street, right on fleet street, Down Maryland avenue, past 270. We will then turn onto Wootton parkway at the scheduled time __:__, we will then head down wootton parkway until we reach so and so and etc. (he basically explains the entire trip in detail.) If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to come up and speak with me. The current time is 11:__, Thank you for riding Ride-On and have a good day." By the time he finished his annoucement, we were already on Maryland avenue. Along the trip, he announces the names of every Major street and intersection we passed. That was pretty interesting considering that thats the kind of service you would expect on a Greyhound ride. It would be nice if I can find out which route and when this bus operator drives today so I can catch a ride with him again. I highly doubt he still drives the Saturday 11 AM 56 run.
i would have to agree with you on Ride-On drivers. I think my Ride-On 20 Trip ticket has been good for about 30 trips so far and only 25 holes are punched :-)
I used to get this one very friendly driver on the 37 although I am not so sure what route he went to. One morning we actually chatted outside the bus about which buses ran where and some other technical stuff. One morning when I was running late, after running for the bus, he told me that he would have waited next time and I didn't need to run. Luckily, I was never that late again. The last driver my trip had was a silent guy, communicating through nods mainly. I never heard him say anything unless he was asked if the bus went anywhere and often answered as briefly as possible. I think I will get him again this pick but he is on vacation, since we have 5619 again (we had 5619 from September on and 5618 during the summer pick) and we have a driver who I have seen doing VR. Today, she was chatting on her cell phone at Grosvenor and was telling whoever she was talking to that "I gets up at 3 AM to drive the bus and that the passengers should arrive at the stop on time. Every time they look at their watch although they know they are late. I have started to stop waiting for them since they should be on time and I don't want to make those who came to the bus on time who have places to go late" or something to that effect. Can't say that is the friendliest additude for a bus driver to have.
It's the most practical though. I don't want to wait at bus stop in the cold for the bus to come on time, and then sit and wait for some boob who didn't want to wait a few minutes in the cold. Besides, connections to some buses can be airtight. Waiting for that one passenger can mean the difference between catching your bus and waiting another 45 minutes.
I understand that but the bus runs every 30 minutes. She told the perosn at the other end "they can always take the next bus". I hope she doesn't use the I am not waiting when she has the last trips. It is a rush hour only route and she does both the last outbound and inbound trips. Miss those and the next bus on that route isn't for 7 hours, althuogh there are other routes that operate outside rush hours nearby.
You just have to remember that sometimes connections are airtight. While that one person may just need the one route, another may need that route to connect to another one. If you wait for one person, then miss the traffic lights, it can alter the whole schedule as now a different pattern of lights and traffic delays will be obstacles for the driver to oversome. A few seconds can turn into minutes quite easily.
Hell no, it isn't! And talking on the cell while driving a car is bad enough, but on a bus it is a MAJOR hazard. What is she smoking?
-F.
It was on a layover. She finished her conversation about 2 minutes before we were scheduled to leave.
She wasn't there today, it was a driver I had never had before. I was the only passenger and had a non stop ride from the Metro to my stop which was very nice. The driver even turned off the stop request bell so I had to yell up to ask to have him stop. All in all a very nice trip. Too bad I couldn't say the same about my return trip today (I did take the Metro home today which I don't normally do)...
Yeah...that reminds me of my DDOT experience when I got stuck in Detroit this past summer. After dealing with some anal case at Greyhound's info booth, I was a bit shy to ask questions about routes, then a driver pulled up in a New Flyer HF and politely asked where I was going and answered my questions for me.
Once on the 53 down Woodward, the driver was so courteous that he let me know which stop the library was at, and when the next bus would be along. The driver going back up did the same...I was quite impressed. VERY courteous service in Motown. Many TAs could learn from them!
-F.
I have had a couple of rude driver's, but the majority of my bus trips , I have had basically pleasant and friendly bus drivers. I had one very pleasant one the Bus this morning. I think the rude customers, sometimes make rude drivers, along with dumb customers. Can't think of any instances right now, but a long time ago, when I first started my bus trips, I got the 2B from Vienna to Fair Oaks Mall, but when I left I got on a 1C (hmmmm... I wonder to where, could it be Ballston LOL!!!), which was the wrong bus, I wanted to go back to Vienna(this was back when I was just discovering the Virginia side of WMATA). Anyway, the bus driver was so helpful and polite, it made me feel better, and when I left the bus he ask where I was going to, just to make sure I got to where I was going. Hey, I also paid less for my subway fare anyway, again LOL!!!
There are definitely a lot of good ones out there. I seem to run into the people that just want to get the day over! I think if I rode more regularly, I'd see a different trend, especially if they recognize me.
It does get very confusing at Fair Oaks when two buses signed "Ballston Station" come in and then go completely different ways to go there. I was always thinking the 1C could go up to Dunn Loring on its way and eliminate the 1B, but it would add too much time to an already long running time.
Solution: buy a Ride-On 20 Trip ticket for $10, get on a ride-on bus, get a transfer, get off and use the transfer on metrobus (If you have enough time, of course)
That's great if you don't live in Virginia!
This is true; our fares here have been 1.25 for several years, but grabbing that extra quarter has always been a pain in the butt..I can only imagine what a challenge a dime and a nickel would be. Everything goes up gradually, according to the cost of living; I remember 20 years ago when fares hiked up from two bits to 75 cents.
Hey, if increased revenue keeps buses on the road without lowering ridership, I'm all for it!
-F.
Here is the WMATA Press Release. Someone was listening to me because they want to institute bus to rail transfers on the SmarTrip and get rid of paper rail to ubs transfers. I do agree, they need to stick to round numbers where possible, I have never liked the 1.10 fare and they should make it 1.25, not 1.30. They are going to have hearings so we need to make the 1.25 statement loud and clear.
For immediate release:
January 9, 2003
Metro's Board considers a menu of fare options aimed at raising $24 Million in revenues
At today's meeting of the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (Metro) Board of Directors' Budget Committee, Metro's staff presented a menu of targeted fare increases and parking fee strategies designed to meet Metro's operating budget revenue requirements for fiscal year 2004, which begins on July 1, 2003.
"We proposed a menu of fare options for Metrorail, Metrobus, and MetroAccess," said Rick Stevens, Director of Business Planning and Development. "Other options include a market-based pricing structure for daily and reserved parking at Metro stations, and promoting the use of the highly popular SmarTrip card by eliminating underutilized Metro passes and taking advantage of the incentives of the transit benefits program. Today's fare and parking fee options are designed to also minimize ridership losses, while at the same time maximizing passenger revenues."
Some of the specific changes proposed today include increasing the Metrorail peak boarding charge by up to $0.30 (from $1.10 up to $1.40); increasing the maximum peak Metrorail fare up to $0.60; increasing the off-peak Metrorail fare up to $0.30; increasing the Metrobus boarding charge by as much as $0.20 (from $1.10 up to $1.30) all day; increasing the daily parking rate by $0.25 to $1, and the monthly reserved parking rate by $30; and modifying MetroAccess fares from $2.20 to double the fastest equivalent bus and/or rail fare.
"Today's proposals represents a measured balanced approach," said Mr. Stevens. "Many other transit agencies are proposing fare increases in these challenging economic times. What's important to note, however, is that we are not proposing any service reductions, as ridership for all services continues to run slightly above last year."
Last month, Metro's CEO Richard A. White announced that the region's transit system is facing a $48 million budget shortfall for FY 2004. To balance the upcoming budget, Mr. White announced plans to reduce expenses by $24 million primarily by streamlining white collar management, and increasing passenger revenues by $24 million. At the same time, he proposed increasing police and safety capabilities.
"There are several reasons why Metro is facing a revenue shortfall," continued Mr. White. "While Metro has maintained or improved service levels since the last fare increase in 1995, operating costs have risen.
"The current economic slowdown has affected transit agencies across the country, including Metro," he said. "While operating costs have increased, bus and rail ridership has grown more slowly than in the past. Slow ridership growth due to the economic downturn, coupled with the ridership impacts and increased insurance costs attributable to September 11 have combined to create a more challenging funding situation.
"This is the first time in eight years that Metro has proposed a change in its fare structure and we hope our customers understand why this is necessary," he added. "We appreciate their continued use of Metro and in the next few months, we look forward to hearing their input on this important issue."
Public hearings on these fare proposals will follow Metro Board's consideration of the menu for fare, parking fee, and Metrobus service changes.
The Proposed Fiscal Year 2004 Fare Strategy Includes:
Metrorail
Increase peak period boarding charge from $1.10 by $0.10 to $0.30
Increase off-peak fares of $1.10, $1.60 and $2.10 by $0.10 to $0.30.
Increase the maximum fare of $3.25 by $0.30 to $0.60.
Metrobus
Increase the boarding charge from $1.10 by $0.10 to $0.20.
Institute a balanced transfer charge of $0.40 each way between bus and rail, using the SmarTrip card only.
Enhance feeder Metrobus service to Metrorail stations.
Retain free Metrobus-to-Metrobus transfers.
Eliminate rail-to-bus paper transfer
MetroAccess/Paratransit
Modify MetroAccess fares from $2.20 (which is currently double the bus fare) to double the fastest equivalent bus and/or rail fare.
Other Fares and Rates
Increase parking rates: daily rate of $2.25 by $0.25 to $1; monthly rates from $45 by $5 to $20; guaranteed rates from $65 to $95.
Eliminate the 10 percent bonus on Metrorail for fare cards of $20 or more.
Retain the most popular transit passes: Metrobus and Metrorail weekly pass, and one-day pass.
Retain elderly and handicapped fares at one-half the peak period fare all day.
What about the price of the 1 day Regional Bus Pass? Will that go up, or will it stay at $2.50?
Also what about the 1 day Metrorail pass, will it stay 5 bucks or go up?
No word as of yet. They did say that they would discontine some passes in an effort to get people to buy SmarTrips (that cost 5 dollars for the cards themselves, you don't get that 5 on the card) although I doubt the 1 day pass would be one of them. It will be interesting to see if the regional carriers follow suit in raising fares, since they tend to do what Metro does.
Well, we knew a fare hike was coming,getting away with steady fares for eight years was as good as it gets. I also like the $1.25 fare.
Hopefully, this won't scare away too many passengers, a .20 fare hike will undoubtably scare away some passengers. Hell, I am a bus fan, and I will continue to ride. Baltimore MTA's fares are $1.35 in comparison, with less buses, hardly no rail(as compared to Metrorail), and less routes. I wonder if the other local transit systems will increase their fares as well. Basically all of the other local transit systems fares range from 35 cents (Cue) to WMATA 's current fare $1.10 (Ride On rush hour).
I was wondering the same thing, too, about the other transit systems. I agree, the fare increase was a long time coming. We had eight great years of no fare increases. I'm sure there will be a lot of people at the hearings to discuss it. Should be pretty interesting!
The raises seem pretty reasonable to me. They aren't too dramatic. The $1 fare increase doesn't affect me b/c I park at PG Plaza Mall, not the station, to start my rail and bus fanning. As far as the rudeness of the drivers, it's the lack of communication that i find stunning. I try to strike up small conversations about transit with some drivers, and alot of them say to me "Hey, don't ask me. I only drive the bus." I cannot count on my hands the number of times DC area drivers seem just like inanimate robots and show little interest in chatting it up and interacting with the riders. Only twice in all my years of bus fanning have I met a driver who knows about the buses he drives and the history of Metro. But then again, those two drivers were quite up there in age and were vets.
On a side note, last summer, I gave a new and fresh out of training Ride-On bus driver an entire primer on the Orion V he was driving and OBI's buses in general. he was stunned and amazed to say the least.
To most of the drivers it is just a job, that thing you do from day to day, but you are right in that they should know what they are driving. We as bus fans probably know more than alot of bus drivers, they should bone up on what they are driving. I manage a shoe store, and when I began my job, I couldn't tell what a Jordan shoe, looked like, but I now know just about every athletic shoes that is out there. Maybe if they get into their job enough, they too may become bus fans, not a bad group to join if you ask me.
I was the same way when I worked at Sears over 10 years ago. I started off working in the warehouse, then became a shoe salesman. Put Al Bundy to shame!! But, I didn't know what I was talking about at first, but just figured it out after awhile.
On a side note, I've been to the Foot Locker at Landmark. Its set up really nice there. Probably one of the nicest stores in that mall! A couple of years ago, I bought a pair of New Balance shoes and the store got really busy. I didn't care, I was fine, but the salesperson felt so bad, he gave me another $10 off the shoe!!
Its so hard with any job to stay nice all the time. We all have our days, its only natural. But, I also know that if I was always rude to my clients, I'd get in so much trouble with FTA if they found out. I got written up at Sears once because I wasn't helpful enough to this one lady and I had to write an apology letter to her! I was pretty po'd, but 'the customer is always right'.
They remodeled that one a couple of months ago, I would wish they would remodeled mine, so I can get a gain again. I try not to rude to any customers, I have been stern on some who tried to put one over on me, but otherwise, I try to be as helpful as possible. One time a customer said I was more helpful by myself with a crowd there, than the Footlocker with about 3 employees there. I hope you got the crew
that is there now, both of crews are tight with each other, unlike the last manager that was there, I was ready to kill him(thankfully, he left about six months ago).
Once as a full timer, I inadvertantly gave a customer the wrong idea, as I wasn't made at them, but made at the fact something was either wrong with the shoes or something non related to the customer. My manager told to apologize, even though he knew and I knew I wasn't mad at them. They took it in stride, after I apologized, and I told them I wasn't mad at them, they understood.
They have since remodeled that Footlocker since then, now it looks really nice, so nice it is taking away some of my business :(
Geez, a 50 degree day can really motivate you to get out of the office, so I took the chance and ran with it. While out I saw a couple of interesting sights. First I saw 5602H on the 17. I didn't see its companion 5601H, but seeing the other hybrid out and about was a pleasant sight. Second, I noticed a NABI on the most useless line SEPTA runs---The SPREE. After those sightings, I had to get back into my office tower before I do something stupid.
MDL.
Haha, yeah, its great down here too. I think its about 60 out. I ran out to the bank before lunch and almost kept on running! Unfortunately, only one bus route passes semi near where I work and I didn't see it. Its supposed to get cold again this weekend, but I'm heading to Disney for the week, so hopefully, I can bring some warm weather back North with me for everyone!
wow i ever seen the "H" bus before i when i go downtown i never see one!
Well, the SPREE is very much close to dead, if SEPTA has it's way. A hearing is scheduled later this month to officially abandon Route 76 (aka the SPREE) due to low ridership...
Ah i think it was better to have the old rt. 76 than the "spree" one. Well atleast that will be more trips on callowhill rts. maybe! ore likly the 52 :(
I rode the 76 once years ago. It was kind of fun. They played a tape recording of what you were seeing, except that the tape got ahead of what you were looking at, so it was kind of funny to be stuck at a red light only to hear the tape talking about something that was blocks away. If I recall, there was only a handful of people on it. It was a nice Neoplan bus from what I remember and it had brochures of things in the city.
Ah i remeber that it the brochures was by the back door is it. i have not seen one of those since like 94.
Exactly, they were right around the back door area. It was like a mobile info center. I can't even remember what the number of the bus was, probably a 3000 series?
The Rt. 76 buses were numbered 3440-3449.
Thanks for the info! I need to get back up to Philly one of these days. My coworker visited the SEPTA store and brought back this little squeeze bus for me and some other odds and ends. I love the science museum up there and that cool IMAX theater.
Yesterday evening around 5pm I encountered an interesting problem.
I was riding on the Q76 bus #286 or 268(don't remember the number).
After passing Willis Point Blvd, there was a loud bang followed by what the driver reported as "a large cloud of black smoke" the bus slowed down. After stomping on the pedel the bus would not go over 5 mph. I dont remember seeing any warning lights or hearing any alarms.
Seems like a transmission problem to be because the engine was left running for a while and it seemed fine. Any idea what would cause the transmission to act this way? If anyone have connections to the depot, I would be very interested in knowing what happened to this bus.
The Q76, that bus is from Casey Stengal Depot. About a year ago, I the Q10 I witnessed a similar problem on Green Lines Orion #5536, where the engine over-heated and a large amount of white smoke was coming out. Although there wasn't a "BANG" as you claim to have seen, there was a strong, nasty smell was the result of this over-heating, and therfore this bus had to be taken out of service. This happen from Queens Blvd., up to Metro Av./Lefferts Blvd..
So maybe that Orion you were on over-heated. But right before you saw the "bang" , how was this bus running?
It looks like the "anti-Orion" people here are going to enjoy seeing this.
Yes, yes we are. Even though I thought you were referring to one of the decrepit GBL RTS, which I would give my left arm to ride anyway.
This happened once on one of the newest 300s I rode last summer, I think it was 368. The engine made a loud pop, but unlike your bus, the engine shut down. Fortunately it restarted and ran fine after.
Encountered one as well but it was on a New Flyer. I was in downtown Brooklyn in the summertime and D40LF 8xx[I forgot the exact number] was running on the B61 and all of a sudden we heard a >POP< and smoke was coming out of the agost pipe rapidly, natural gas in the air, the smell was strong then the bus stalled, the B/O shut it down and I think it was towed.
Well I headed on out for another bus trip. Last year was some new bus systems were ridden, that being the Baltimore MTA and the other being PRTC(direct bus service from Springfield to Potomac Mills). This trip was to one of those, that being Baltimore MTA.
I started off with getting The Bus,35', Gillig 62897 to New Carrolton
and then got another The Bus 63007 (Thomas SLF 30', The Bus, B5.9 engine, 15X). This route has gotten crowded, well not all that crowded, but more crowded than I last took it. I took it to Greenbelt and got the B30 (Orion V surburban 40', WMATA, DD50, bus 4393-Landover, route Landover)and took it to BWI. I made somemore usual bus observations here. I saw 9702 on the T16, later saw the same bus running the C28 and saw 8822 running on the F14 before that, I am not sure if this bus was transferred to Montgomery or if it is still at Southern/Annex. Also saw 9254 running on the C9, this bus was running out of Bladensburg briefly, but was originally at Western.
Got to BWI Business Park(by the way don't know why they got that name, as there is really no businesses in that area). Anyway got 9962
(NABI 416 40', Baltimore MTA, M11 engine, route 17-Bush). I got to Patapsco and after a little wait got 9226 (Flxible Metro C? 40',Baltimore MTA, 6V71, bus Northern on the 51). I had two objectives and they were either to ride an 8500 or 8600 series Flxible Metro before they are replaced by the new Neoplans coming soon. Well I got one out of the two, which ain't bad. I caught 8656
(Flxible Metro A 40', Baltimore MTA, 6V92, route 13). I took it the entire route, at least till where it terminated at Canton and after another wait caught 9941 (NABI 416, 40', Baltimore MTA, M11 engine, route 7). I me some eats (Whopper value meal, good deal). I went up to Mondawming hoping to catch an 8500 series. That didn't happen, I waited for a while, and didn't even see one. Did see a one door one downtown, before heading to Mondawmin which was 8575(I think). I waited around and hoped it would run on a route that I could take, but it kept going and going. As it was getting late, I decided to head home via the subway and light rail back to BWI business district.
There I got 4391(Orion V surburban 40', WMATA, DD50 engine, B30-Landover and bus Landover), back to Greenbelt and caught the "flag bus" 9774 (Flxible D-40',WMATA, L10 engine, R12 Landover and route Landover) to New Carrolton and then got 9771(same as for 9774) to home.
Even though I didn't get to ride all the buses I wanted to ride, it was still a fun trip.
Why is 9774 the flag bus?
I will enter your observations tomorrow hopefully, AWOL list coming soon.
Just because there is a flag that is still in the bus on the side destination sign. I believe it has been there since around the rememberance of the 9/11 attacks. That is why I have dubbed it the flag bus. I haven't seen any other bus with the flag in itlike this one has. There may be one or two others out there in the WMATA fleet that may have flags somewhere on the inside but this is the only one that I have seen with it.
I see. I dubbed 9206 as the Patriotic Bus since it is believed it was the first to get the American flag "advertisement" on the back. I took a picture of it on 9/10/01:
Then saw it on Western Avenue while going in the other direction a few weeks later. I never got a picture of it with the flag, but I got some of the other Western's with them:
Then, 366 days later, I got 9206 again, almost in the exact same place, with the flag commemorating the attacks:
That would be appropriate to name 9206 the "Patriotic Bus", since it was the first to be seen with the back flag ad. Since 9774 has the flag in it would be deemed the "Flag Bus". If 5241 is the bus with the flag decal and it still has it on its right side by the front door, this would be deemed the "Stars and Stripes" bus.
By the way, I call 4309 the "Orange Crush" bus because it is the only WMATA Orion with an orange destination sign (so far).
Too bad these orange signs are becoming reality, I can't say I like them all that much.
My plan is to go in late tomorrow morning so I am hoping to get pictures of D40LFs on the 30s. Wish me luck!
You might be lucky, it seems like the 30s get alot of them. I am not sure where along the route, you'll be, but I know the area around Georgetown would be a good bet seeing one or two.
No, they only run on a few runs which are bunched together. I think most of the trips to/from Tenleytown and Georgetown are Bladensburg's, especially the Tenleytown trips, since those seem to tie into the H3, and H4. You have to be there at a certain point durign rush hour to get them.
Why do people feel the need to abuse buses?? I ask because, as my bus was turning a corner, these kids began pelting this poor NFI D60 #5414 with, guess this, ORANGES!!! Although I really shouldn't have done this, I began to laugh my ass off, and couldn't stop because I kept picturing the oranges in mid-air and going BOOM-SPLAT against the windshield and on the side windows. To think that I knew that this was going to happen based on the way the kids were looking at the bus....People....
Anyone else got a really bizarre transit disrespect story?
Well once, I witnessed some kids throwing rocks at the bus. Since it was an Ikarus, I really didn't mind.
Funny you mentioned this, I had a attempt of a snow ball pelting on Tenafly Road on my 7:20p 84 Trip to the Bridge in Englewood, I saw the kids getting prepped up about two blocks in advanced, so when I got up to them I dipped the bus at the causing them to run and dipped back out without the passengers noticing the move!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Way to go, Trevor - I've done this too and it wouldn't surprise me if one or more of them had to ask their momma to wash their underwear immediately......
I know right! I had a similar incident during Holloween that I posted about and I know those kids won't egg or snowball a bus ever again in life!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Nice move, Trevor! If only NYCT operators would be more aggressive....
When I drove for Univ. of MD, my bus was pelted with beer bottle caps, frisbees, you name it. Once I did throw my bus in reverse, but I didn't back up after them. Since it was a loop run I was doing, I knew I was going back again, but by my next go 'round, the police were the only ones on that street. : )
I also took over a bus coming off a football shuttle that was doused in beer.
Ya know, I would place good money that trevor would have caught them with an artic!
You have to ride with him to see what I mean.
Regards,
Mark Valera
Yeah, I've seen abuse on buses. On Halloween people weren't throwing eggs like the usually do, guess what it was? They threw onions! People these days have nothing better to do :-\............
There was an area near where I live called Washington Heights, where bus pelting with rocks, snowballs and other stuff was commonplace. It was mostly done in the mid to late eighties. Now it doesn't happen at all, because 1)They remodeled the apartments up there and made the place look better and 2)I think the police put a stop to it, because during the ninties, it didn't happen much if at all.
if MTA does take over the Private lines and/or LI Bus, wat route changes would you make and why. Since they would be combined, county lines (and city limits_ could be ignored.
Now let's go further and create RTA- Regional Transportation Authority.
RTA would inmerit NJT, PATH, Bee Line and MTA. How would you add NJT Essex, Bergen, Hudson . Westchester service to the mix.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't MTA Bus include Westchester County also?
JD
Two proposals: one woudl and oen woudl not. Either way give me your ideas for routes both ways.
I believe that the regional bus concept will be adopted but not as proposed.
In my opinion New York City Transit will take over the routes of all the private companies being as follows:
1-Atlantic Express
2-Command Bus
3-Green Bus Lines
4-Jamaica Buses
5-Liberty Lines Express
6-New York Bus Service
7-Queens Surfice
8-Triboro Coach
I also believe that the TA should absorb the shuttle bus routes now operated by NY Waterways as they mostly duplicate the TA routes
I also believe that a new surburban bus authority will be created to operate the following:
1-Long Island Bus
2-City of Long Beach Transit
3-Suffolk County Bus System
4-HART
5-The Westchester Bee Line Systerm
6-The Rockland County Bus System
I believe that this will be the better option because the needs of the City are different than the surburban needs.
Buses in New York City should be used to compliment the subway system and hence they should be operated by a New York City Transit System
The Surburban bus routes should basically serve the county they are in as well as the next county
ie: Nassau into Suffolk,Nassau into Queens
Westchester into Rockland(and vice versa) and into the Bronx
Surburban routes should complement the existing rail systems and be used to feed New York City subway routes when required
Thats my opinion
Thank You
No suburban authority will be created in order to integrate into NYC's system and to package costs. Nassau County did not feel like paying for those buses, so they'll be passed to the city. Westchester probably won't join because their system meets their needs better than an MTA system would. Bee-Line only competes once for funds at the state level. Integration would mean competition at every level for money. Rockland may not because MTA loves giving them the shaft and this would be another way for them to be shorted.
If the MTA had control, Westchester would have more bus service, plus a few Bronx buses could even go into Westchester(like the Bx16, but deeper)
[If the MTA had control, Westchester would have more bus service, plus a few Bronx buses could even go into Westchester(like the Bx16, but deeper)]
The MTA has had control of LI Bus/MSBA since the early 1970's, and you don't see Queens buses going deep into Nassau County (other than the Q5 and Q85 to Green Acres).
The Q79 and other buses slightly go into Nassau County, which is more than the Bronx buses going into Westchester, which is 1
[The Q79 and other buses slightly go into Nassau County]
Other than the Green Acres buses mentioned earlier, any intrusion by Queens NYCT buses into Nassau County is merely to turn the bus around or because the street straddles the city/county line. The routing is definitely not to better serve passengers trying to get to or from Nassau County. I recollect posts awhile back about some Bronx NYCT routes going into Westchester County. It seems to me the situation is the same as Queens/Nassau, which was my original point.
Only the Bx16 actually goes into Westchester(in service) and has a stop in there
One Queens bus has about 12 stops in Nassau County(so I heard), on the border or not, that is a lot of stops outside of NYC
[One Queens bus has about 12 stops in Nassau County (so I heard), on the border or not, that is a lot of stops outside of NYC.]
That's the Q36. East of about 225th Street, the eastbound lanes of Jamaica Avenue are in Nassau County (and are named Jericho Turnpike). For this reason, both the Q36 and N24 operate open-door on both sides of the street.
Next closest would be the Q5 and Q85 looping around Green Acres Mall, followed by the Q46 along Lakeville Road between Union Turnpoike and the Long Island Jewish Medical Center campus.
how many stops does the Q5, Q85 have in Nassau?
[The MTA has had control of LI Bus/MSBA since the early 1970's....]
Not control, but an operating contract. Service within Nassau County is the responsibility of Nassau County; MTA (through Long Islnad Bus) is merely a contract carrier) whom the County has chosen not to pay.
[if MTA does take over the Private lines and/or LI Bus, wat route changes would you make and why.]
Technically, the MTA already has taken over LI Bus. I realize this doesn't affect the intent of your question.
Gee Peggy, why don't we also do away with station agents as well?
Do you not understand the consequences of a RBC to current NYCTA employees, or is it that you simply don't care about fellow employees and union members?
Oh, that's right, I remember now, wasn't it you who stated you would cross the line in a strike that would possibly fight an RBC implementation in the first place? Now you're here discussing the issue as if it were a mere whimsical topic irrelevant to you in your position.
Leave regional bus issues to those directly impacted by them and of whom know the issues. Stick to scab promotion and strike breaking- things you know much more about than I.
This is the only resaposne you'll get:
Go scream at Mike Silver and Roger Giveback and company. They are pushing this bad contract I voted NO! They are the ones who accepted thew plan. They are the ones giving MTA the go ahead for layoffs! If you wish to do something cosntructive starta recall campaignf or Roger Giveback and Company.The exex coard voted 31-9 in favor of job losses. Start a recall campaing or are you afraid to do so.
Perhaps your DNA donors diud not teach eraspecy for the law,b ut ym parents taught me to respect the law. Start a camapign to repeal Taylro Law. I look forward to your efforts to recall union officers and to repeal Taylor LKokk- the bus is approachign your depot- get ont eh bus!
Go break the law- I'll see you in jail. As far as my job=- if this contract passes I mayt not have a job either
May I also suggest a refresher course in spelling and sentence construction?
I also am against this contract, however that has nothing whatsoever to do with your promoting scabbing and union busting, such as you have in your little station-banter clubhouse.
Unlike yourself, I would do whatever it takes to ensure you, yes even you, someone who threatened to cross a picket line of fellow union members, have a job.
Unlike you, I believe it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Unlike you, I was willing to take whatever steps necessary to protect my job and to make it better in the future and unlike you, I realize the importance of being a union member.
You banned all discussion of strike talk in your group when there was no gag order issued. As is your right as a group moderator to do with such as you please, it is similarly evident of where you stand when push comes to shove and your union needs you. You're alone, fending for yourself, and you must now realize and live with those consequences of disassociating yourself from and against your fellow union brothers and sisters.
You are weak, Peggy. And you weaken me by your very existance as a union member. I will never forget how you publically announced your betrayal to your union. Don't blame Mike or Roger for giving you a contract you don't want. You weren't willing to do anything about it anyway. You're lucky to have gotten as much as you already have, and if I were you, I'd vote YES, because if this MOU fails, it's off to binding arbitration where the stakes and consequences are raised severely and much of the benefits you consider gains are off the table once again.
I've wasted just about enough time on you. Any reply will go unanswered. I unsubscribed from your group so as not to listen to your psychobabble, and I really don't need it here.
{shrug}
Why would the MTA, a New York state agency, want to take over NJ Transit, a New Jersey state agency? Outside of the NY stations of the Pascack Valley and Main rail lines, they couldn't care less about each other. NJT is not a regional agency like the MTA; it's a statewide agency that is handling south Jersey commuters to Philadelphia and in-state riders as well as commuters to NYC.
Similarly, I don't see the MTA taking over PATH. The Poret Authority won't give that up because if they did, the river tolls would have to drop dramatically as they could no longer use PATH subsidization as a reason for the current toll rates.
Let's talk about the Queens/Bronx privates for a moment. No doubt the RTA will discontinue duplicaion of any local service. And if there is any duplicate express service (and there is) that will also be corrected. I don't know exactly how the routes will be configured, but let's hope that the RTA doesn't make decesions like NYCT does sometimes regarding routing and scheduling.
It would be good if all of the express routes were in one central depot. In order to accomodate the Queens and Bronx express routes together, how about an EXPRESS depot in Manhattan, near the 23rd Street area? Somewhere near the old (soon-to-be EX-Hudson Depot). Sure you might say that the buses would have to deadhead to all of the a.m. starting points and return from the those points in the p.m. But there would be a savings of not having to deadhead so far to Midtown & Wall Street (like is now done from the respective depots), when the p.m. peak service begins.
I have a soft spot for express work. And if the same equipment on these routes is used as is used on NYCT express routes, the ridership will definitely grow, provided it is operated correctly. Would the RTA be able to keep up with the ridershiop demand and add buses as needed?
And by then, what will the express fare be? Anyone see that Westchester is proposing a $7.00 cash fare (each way) on its BxM4C route. This is outrageous. That will affect the ridership alright. But the affect will go the wrong way (down, down, down)!
I don't think that deadheading would be an issue coming from HP; buses would be going against the flow of traffic depending on the time of day.
The thing about the Bee-Line wanting a $7 fare for the BxM4C is ridiculous. Even if there is a budget crisis up there, such a fare kills that route's competitive advantage vis-a-vis Metro-North, whose fare for an off-peak one way trip from GCT to White Plains is $5 and whose peak fare one way is $6.50. The cost/savings gets more pronounced the closer one gets to the city line, so whoever is doing the books up there and is advocating such a fare increase is asking for it.
At first glance, I'm not so sure the $7 fare is so outrageous when compared to Metro-North's $6.50 peak fare. The express bus with its more extensive number of pickup and dropoff locations offers greater convenience both in Westchester County and Manhattan, does it not? By comparison, those same commuters when traveling by train have to get themselves to the local train station and then from Grand Central to wherever they're going in the City. Isn't the greater convenience offered by the bus worth a 50-cent premium?
JD
Orion #144, previously at the Yukon Depot in Staten Island, is now in service on Queens Village routes. It still has Yukon decals, and it still has the surburban seats, unlike Castleton's (now Stengel's) #146.
I rode it today on the Q31. I interrogated the driver, and he thinks QV will be keeping it. He then started whining that QV never gets any NEW buses, but he cheered up when I told him that some Orion VIIs were on the way to save the day. *superhero music plays*
Hi everybody!!!!
I'm back. I'm still finding a job but I'm hopeful. In the meantime, I'm back on a limited basis.
Anyway, I saw you interrogating the bus driver. I saw bus #144 turning up Homelawn St at about 10:00 AM! The next Q31 bus was bus #511 with my friend Roger as the bus driver. He loves the Orions!
I'm back! I missed you guys!!!
Ray
Eh? How'd you see me interrogating him?
I was on the corner of Hillside Av and 169th St. I just missed that bus. If that was not you...it was somebody else standing or sitting next to the bus driver. My mistake.
Ray
Nope...wasn't me. I was talking to the driver around 12:10 at the corner of Bell and Northern. We were going north on Bell.
He then started whining that QV never gets any new buses
Oh please, what about Fresh Pond? For the past 6 months QV has been receiving Nova/Orion Suburbans. Not only does Fresh Pond have a bus shortage(only 240 buses), it hasn't got anything new in 4 years!
Look at the Urban Transit Club bus roster(Updated as of January 3) to see what I mean.
Click here for Bus roster
That bus roster states they have a 1977 Flxible bus 9284 as museum status. I've never seen or heard of that. Can anybody verify that and if so where it is so I can visit it tomorrow!!!
BIG AL
I know you're waiting for a Fresh Pond recieves another bus thread ;-). All jokes aside, Ulmer Park is approaching SEVEN years without getting a fleet that started there but you see the Brooklyn division is in no position to get a conversion to natural gas buses so we'll be stuck with had me downs for years to come.
Not counting the 7000/7500 remans, here are the numbers of old buses (1984 to 1987). GH 2. KB 31. MV 66. MJQ 14. HUD 33. 126 2. ENY 35. FP 95. JG 10. FLAT 39. UP 54. QV 15. JAM 37. YUK 9. The Brooklyn divison is really hurting. And with the majority of Brooklyn depots being designated RTS only, old buses will be replaced by not as old buses but with new engines.
Yep, the Brooklyn Div. has the highest # of old buses, how sad. Manhattan and the Bx always get treated the best. SI is in between, and Brooklyn and Queens at the bottom(although QV, JG, and CS are going to change soon). Like I said before , the average age of Bklyn. Div.'s fleet is going to rise, and its going to stay like that.
You really don't have it "bad." HUD, they have it bad. Most of their buses are the 1984-87 variety. They have NOTHING younger than 10 years old. THEY STILL HAVE 1984 RTS BUSES!!! And these are buses that running on long routes like the Q32. Really, it's not that bad at FP, it could be much worse. I'd LOVE to see your reaction if they sent the 34xx, 39xx, and the various 4xxx buses to FP in exchange for your coveted 9100's.
Okay I will admit, Manhattanville isn't so hot either. They're stuck with a lot of pre-1990 buses, and haven't gotten any big changes, but they're still not as ignored as FP and UP.
On a side note, I hope MV is taking care of 4145. That's one of the only FP originals still living, and I wouldn't mind having it back in FP. It's much better than that damn horrible ENY "hand down", the 3997.
Oh man, 3997 is a BAD bus I'll agree with that. Hudson Pier really got a old fleet, I think they have more GM's than any other depot. The best thing they got is 9488-9534 but half of those start so SLOW they look like they were there before they came out in 1997-1998.
At least MV has some natural gas vehicles as Brooklyn's depots other than JG is nowhere near seeing a non-RTS bus in the forseeable future.
Hudson Pier's fleet goes like this:
# of 1990(and newer) Buses(155) > # of pre-1990 Buses(35)
I thought it was much worse. Damn Ridgewood, Fresh Pond really got it bad. About 100 of the 239 buses there are pre 1990 buses and they cannot afford to lose anymore buses. Seems like those early TMC's are not going anywhere anytime soon.
Well, what compounds the problems is that FP has SO many buses. I believe if HUD needed about 250 buses, there'd be alot more crap over there. They seem to be the dumping ground for buses on their way out. Nevertheless, if I was in NYC, the first place I'd ride buses would be FP and HUD. I love RTS buses that are so bad, they're good.
Thats interesting. For some reason I like buses that start SO slow b/c I like when they struggle to gain speed ;-). Ha, HP is just a bad depot, the location is weird, its dingy and a lot of the buses are pre 1990. Nope, Brooklyn is the REAL dumping ground for retiring RTS's. I like the RTS but the 1983 RTS's was THE WORST RTS's ever made for NYC, a lot of you guys should agree with me.
I'll post a thread called RTS Dumping grounds just now to show you how we get hand me downs the most in Brooklyn.
Unlike FP, Hudson has a reason not to get any newer buses. HP is suppose to close sometime soon, and that will probably bring down most of the Pre-1990 RTS's there.
That's true. By the way, did you see the topic "RTS Dumping Grounds", it shows the frustration we went through in the Brooklyn division over the years and how we recieve a huge number of old hand me downs from the other boroughs, I use the 1983 RTS as a example.
maybe,just maybe, ulmer park will recieve JG 8500's once the orion VII FINALLY arrive-to help replace either the 7500's or the 4700's or 4800's. Just a opinion mind you.
#8618-M20-TMCRTS
Lets hope so, Ulmer really needs a better roster than what they have now. They have ONLY about 70 Novas in the depot, which is a paltry number compared to other depots but its better than nothing.
Hudson Pier is a dumping ground because its going to close down when 100th Street Depot opens. You don't expect lots of 9400's/9500's/9600's to come to HP, only to be moved to another after a short time. The Hudson riders will soon be enjoying the newer buses that will be in 100 St. depot.
CS doesn't have it too bad. None of their buses are older than 1993.
H u d s o n P i e r D e p o t
Routes: M-6, M-8, M-9, M-11, M-14, M-16/34, M-21, M-22, Q-32 (split-Casey Stengel.
RTS: 180. OUT OF SERVICE: 12.
RTS: 3469, 3489, 3809, 3893, 4019, 4045, 4135, 4155-4156, 4158-4159, 4163, 4165, 4327, 4362-4363, 4474, 4498, 4526, 4528, 4531, 4540-4543, 4546, 4548, 4552, 4873, 4875-4877, 4879, 4883, 4886, 5190-5204, 8203, 8228-8235, 8241, 8244-8245, 8253-8261, 8459, 8461-8465, 8467, 8470, 8473-8476, 8479-8482, 8484-8486, 8488-8517, 9488-9534, 9606-9618. 1990 TMC-RTS: HP-#1(Now HB-9598). Out of Service: 8235-Accident, Zerega: 4155.
Okay, maybe I was wrong about HP not having anything younger than 10 years old. They have about 55 buses that are younger than 10. But then, look at the other relics they have running.
As a matter of fact, according to the OFFICIAL NYCT bus assignment sheet, the average age of Fresh Pond's fleet is 10.88 years, the oldest in the fleet by more than a year. "DRBB" has a point (not to say that it will be that way forever)!
David
Really? Damn, Fresh Pond really got shafted over the years, now imagine they never had the 1999 Novas, the average age would probably be even older. Not to mention that FP is approaching FOUR years without getting a fleet increase.
Back in 1999, Fresh Pond was fine, it was about equal to the other RTS depots. Fresh Pond's fleet was like this:
1985 RTS's: 4071-4112, 4138, 4145(in MV), 4201-4203, 4205-4210, 4212-4213 (55)
1987 RTS's: 4670-4682, 4723-4741, 4743-4752 (42)
1990 RTS's: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166-8171 (41)
1996 RTS's: 9140-9185 (46)
1998 RTS's: 9569-9605 (37)
1999 RTS's: 5055-5074 (20)
Back then, 103 Novas was considered a lot. But now that number is a joke. At that time FP had those horrible KB 4200's(thank God they're gone now). And there's the originals, now they're all gone. 4145 still lives though, I hope it doesn't get scrapped, that was FP's best original, I wonder if it still has that blue printed ad in the back?
Right now the only thing holding up FP is the 9100's, my favorite buses.
103 Novas that's better than no Novas [You had to sneak 4145 in ther did you] ;-).
Lets see where all the Novas are at now in Brooklyn & Manhattan [as a example].
Brooklyn:
FB-1997: 9382-9443(62)
1999: 5075-5124(50)
Total 112
UP-1996: 9077-9110(24), 9295-9341(37)
Total 61
FP-1996: 9140-9185(46)
1998: 9569-9605(37)
1999: 5055-5074(20)
Total 103
ENY-1996: 8899-8923,8925,8927-8929,8931-8936,8938,9030-9033,9035,9036,9040,9041,9048,9057-9064,9066-9069,9071,9074-9076(61)
1999: 4945-5024(80), 5205-5249(45)
Total 188
JG-0
Total 0
Manhattan:
126-1996: 9029,9034,9037-9039,9042-9047,9049,9186-9228(55)
1999: 5025-5054(30)
Total 85
HUD-1997: 9488-9534, 9606-9618(60)
1999: 5190-5204(15)
Total 75
MV-1996: 8750-8802, 8980-9028(92)
1999: 5125-5144(20)
Total 112
I'll post the rest of the depots and corrections in another post.
Don't take the number of Novas itself into too much consideration. The fleet # also matters. Even though 126 ST. has only 85 Novas, it still makes up a greater percentage of fleet than the 103 Novas in Fresh Pond. Espcially in KB, that has Artics and more Novas than FP, even though it has a smaller RTS fleet than FP!
Isn't that funny, KB's RTS fleet is *TWICE* as small as FP yet they still have more Novas and newer buses than FP, shows Brooklyn depots "gladly opens its arms" for recieving older hand me down RTS's. Of course the fleet size is very important and FP & UP could use a few extra spare buses in their fleets.
Here's the rest of the Nova fleet.
MJQ-1996: 9270-9277,9282-9284,9342-9344(14)
1998: 9619-9654(36)
1999: 5170-5189(20)
Total 70
Queens:
QV-1996: 9250-9261,9286-9288,9292-9294(18)
1997: 9350-9381(32)
1999: 4900-4944(45)
Total 95
JA-1996: 8939-8978,9051,9053-9056,9065,9070,9072,9073,9262-9269,9278-9281,9285,9291,9345-9349(68)
1998: 9535-9568(34)
1999: 5145-5169(25)
Total 125
CS-0
Total 0
Bronx:
GH-1996: 8867-8898,9229-9249(53)
1997: 9444-9487(44)
Total 97
KB-1996: 8807-8866,8930,8937,9111-9139(81)
1998: 9655-9699(45)
Total 126
MCH-0
Total 0
AMS-0
Total 0
Staten Island:
CAS-0
Total 0
YUK-0
Total 0
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Corrections
The Novas in MV starts from 8979 and runs to 8806, they also have 8924 and 8926
9052 is in ENY
9050 is in 126
From the looks of that list and the other list, it seems that Brooklyn has the most Novas. I believe the total is 463.
4145 no longer has the blue wrap ad in the rear. I rode it on the M4 recently.
#4145 M4
4145 had a neat look with that ad. Oh well.
Fresh Pond is the most ignored depot in the city. Here let me prove it. Here's FP's fleet from now & then(Transitalk style)
Fresh Pond Depot- September 18, 2001
252 Buses:
1985 RTS's: 3918, 3919, 3921, 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997 (7)
1987 RTS's: 4653-4661, 4663-4684, 4686-4688, 4690-4691, 4693-4741, 4743-4752, 4880-4881, 4884, 4889-4891 (101!)
1990 RTS's: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166-8171 (41)
1996 RTS's: 9140-9185 (46)
1998 RTS's: 9569-9605 (37)
1999 RTS's: 5055-5074 (20)
Fresh Pond Depot- Now
239 Buses(they lost 13 buses):
1985 RTS's: 3918, 3921, 3986, 3995, 3997 (5)
1987 RTS's: 4658-4660, 4663-4674, 4676-4684, 4686-4688, 4693-4741, 4743-4751, 4880-4881, 4884, 4890-4891 (90!)
1990 RTS's: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166-8171 (41)
1996 RTS's: 9140-9185 (46)
1998 RTS's: 9569-9605 (37)
1999 RTS's: 5055-5074 (20)
After ENY gave us those horrible 3900's, FP has received nothing after that. They lost 13 buses, without any replacements. And now there's a shortage. Does NYCT know FP exists? It seems not.
-Damn those rosters take a long time to type accurately, it took me an hour to write this post.
Fresh Pond still has 3919, 3918 I think is gone. Assuming HP closes this year as scheduled, 9606-9618 would be a huge boost for the depot and would restore it to 252 buses. And it would make you happy to see more Novas come in ;-).
Let's hope it happens...
Figure this 1 out: The 3900s went from QV to either YUK KB or MHV.
I just got a pics of 3906 on the M3 and 3965 on the M2.
Talk about YUCK!
#3965 M2
OMG, 3906 was pathetic, I was forced to ride that sadness more than a year ago on the Q46.
Yeah, I don't think its fair that Yukon and MV got them, however KB deserved them, I hate KB for treating those 4200's horribly, and later FP had to suffer with them. I'm glad KB is suffering with those 3900's.
Oh BTW, did you get a picture of the 4145? I want to see it without the ad.
Even though Ulmer Park hasn't gotten an original bus since 96'(if you don't include the MCI's), their local fleet was fine at one point. They had 8340-8350(now at ENY), and 5075-5099(now at FLA), and they got those buses taken away only to be left with no choice but to use their suburbans.
In 2000, Ulmer Park had 5075-5099(from GH), which broke the drought for a short time. Fresh Pond however has received nothing since Jan. 1999. FP always gets ignored, even more than UP.
Right now, Ulmer Park is in the worst shape. However, Fresh Pond is the most ignored depot in the city, Ulmer Park is second.
Yup, I totally agree. Ever since Ulmer Park lost the B8 and B68, they really haven't been the same to me. That's not true, Fresh Pond recieved 8000-8017 from GH, well that is basically not much since 1999 but its better than nothing. I'd rather the 1985 GM's remain b/c now the 1987/1988 TMC's are the rock of the fleet and they can't afford for anymore of these to be scrapped.
I was so happy for UP when had 5075-5099 but when the 1984 GM's went to scrap [which I think they shouldn't have so soon], so did UP's decent hand me downs 8340-8351 and 5075-5099 which went to different Brooklyn depots as you mentioned and now they have 7511-7534 and 4700/4800's as the rock of the fleet.
SPEAKING of Fresh Pond....
I've seen an influx of bus drivers standing around Flushing wearing Fresh Pond hats.
Q58 drivers??
Oh...they're from Fresh Pond? Heh heh....nevermind.
Theres also another Ex Yukon bus at QV. It is 154. Why is QV getting a ton of Exp buses? CS is still shortof Wuses. why couldnt CS get 246 instead of 146?
Okay, what is up with the roster from UTCNY? They have 26 Orions at MJQ? I think that needs to be changed AND I thought bus #133 was scrapped? It's at MJQ...Why?
Ray
Maybe MJQ has 26 Orions, because it doesn't have MCI's. Don't worry when the next MCI order comes(if it does), then those Orions will also be used for local service, like the ones in QV.
CS is still short of Wuses
Hey, I didn't know Casey Stengal was short of wussies, hell,why not throw in a couple of queers for good measure. You just made me think differently of the people over at CS, I thought they were just like anyone else, but now I know the truth. LOL!!!!!!
j/k
Anywayz, CS isn't the only depot short of buses(or "wuses" maybe), I'm sorry I couldn't help it. LMAO!
Fresh Pond is short of buses too. We need buses just as bad as CS.
P.S., please don't get offended by my post. I just had to do it, it was just too tempting. I couldn't resist!
Hey Ralph (Kramden): I thought you brive a dus, not a wus!
Oh, and now that I think about, the engine in #144 sounded really smooth and quiet-like. Not a typical Orion-sounding engine. Perhaps it was a non-typical Orion-sounding engine?
Oh, and naturally, it had a Staten Island bus map in the front.
And an express bus permit.
And my seat's reclining button was broken.
Okay, here are my obsverations:
Queens Village Bus Depot:
#144, #507, #511, #513, #517, #520, #619, #623, #628, #2883, #4902, #4905, #4908, #4913-4914, #4934, #7003, #7015, #7023-7024, #7035, #8363, #8366 (not repowered), #8386, #9250, #9286, #9292, #9352, #9355, #9357, #9365, #9380
Jamaica Bus Depot:
#4589, #4594, #5145-5146 (both repainted BUT the back number of #5146 was not re-done), #5148, #5150 (repainted), #5158, #8947, #8960, #8969, #9051, #9073, #9281, #9348, #9536-9537, #9541, #9552-9553, #9563
Casey Stengel Bus Depot:
#287, #293, #308, #311, #531, #558, #565, #568, #669, #676-677, #6134 (sounded like the bus had a cummings engine inside), #6136 (repainted)
East New York Bus Depot:
#4635, #4997, #8905, #8921
Fresh Pond Bus Depot:
#9595
Queens Surface Corporation:
#379, #575
Jamaica Bus Lines:
#529, #553, #561, #3848, #3856
Green Bus Lines:
#231, #247, #632, #1155, #1174, #5543
MTA LI Bus:
#105, #124, #154, #158, #183, #201, #270, #380, #386, #392, #603, #628
Suffolk Transit:
#940 on the S21
#9949 on the S42
#9714 on the 10A
#99xx on the S61
(I mentioned the routes because these change every now and then.)
There are more buses that I forget to mention and I'll probably think of them AFTER I post this. Enjoy!
Ray
P.S. Based on the buses I saw...you can tell that I was in Jamaica.
There is no S21 in Suffolk County Transit. S20 yes,21 no.
Believe or not, I thought of the same thing...but the destination sign had S21 on top. Maybe he had a written sign on the window saying it was the S20.
Ray
Today I just looked at the UTC bus roster and noticed that Fresh Pond has lost even more buses. I will post FP's fleet here(Transitalk style).
Fresh Pond Depot: 239 Buses
1985 RTS: 3918, 3921, 3986, 3995, 3997 (5)
1987 RTS: 4658-4660, 4663-4674, 4676-4684, 4686-4688, 4693-4741, 4743-4751, 4880, 4881, 4884, 4890, 4891 (90)
1990 RTS: 8000-8017, 8131-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160, 8161, 8166-8171 (41)
1996 RTS: 9140-9185 (46)
1998 RTS: 9569-9605 (37)
1999 RTS: 5055-5074 (20)
Fresh Pond now have themselves in a shortage. They keep losing buses without getting replacements. Fresh Pond always gets ignored! Hell, I wish Fresh Pond still had their originals(4071-4112), they were better than these damn "hand downs".
Originals > Hands Downs
The TA treats the Brooklyn Div. like shit!!
"Why do we get nothing? Why do you hate us?"
2003 is already starting off bad over here.
To Q5Merrick: Please tell me What happened to 3919, 3987, 4661, and 4752. Where are they? How could these 4 buses dissappear so quickly without replacements?
Q58- RTS #9169
Q55- RTS #9175
Actually FP's 1985 RTS originals were 4071-4151.
Fresh Pond is not in a shortage. It simply means they have less spare buses. A depots fleet is never 100% on the road. There are always extra buses to allow for maintainence purposes. There was a number (I forgot) but I believe that 10% of a depots fleet is always in house. All depots must have enough buses to "make score", that is have enough buses to cover ALL trips during the AM and PM rush hours. Along time ago alot of depots could not make score but today that rarely happens. So don't worry, there are still enough buses at Fresh Pond to make all the required trips and then some. Maintainence just has to be more on the ball to repair buses faster with less spares to cover any sudden breakdowns.
Also, why do you keep complaining about Brooklyn division never getting buses? What do you expect them to get? There have been hardly any new local buses coming into the system recently, and the one's that are coming CAN NOT be facilitated in the Brooklyn garages with the exception of Gleason. So, when no new buses come into the system, that means there are no new or used buses to be transferred to Brooklyn Div.
Get it?
BIG AL
I would KILL for a fleet like that in my neighborhood. Be greatful. You could be dealing with the bland 32-35xx series D40LF's. I like New Flyers, but the engines inside of those buses are the most boring ever. Now our 40-41xx series have some of the best engines since the Grummans/RTS.
On tonight's episode of "Hack", our hero was doing another unexpected good deed, when he was instructed to take a bus to 10th and Callowhill. He had to take the 3 bus (which in reality runs nowhere near 10th and Callowhill). He boarded NABI 5290, which displayed a 3- 33rd st/C.B. Moore destination sign. However, when he first boarded the bus, the destination read "PHILADELPHIA". Another example of some of the bloopers that frequently occurs in TV filming.
I saw the episode last night,also. I knew the bus was on the wrong route and caught the PHILADELPHIA sign, also. That's TV for you, they always get away with something. At least we saw a a real SEPTA bus on TV.
Chuck Greene
Two big gripes:
1. I don't know of any route that runs anywhere near 10 St and Callowhill. I know the 23 runs on 11 St, but I don't know of any buses along 10 St. Nor do I know of any buses that run along Callowhill east of the Schuylkill. (The 30, however, does run on Callowhill between 66 St and Daggett St in West Philadelphia, but that's about it for buses on Callowhill proper.)
2. You would rarely see a NABI running on the 3. 99 times out of 100, a 3300 or 3400 series Neoplan from Frankford would be used on that line (at least they went to the right depot for the bus; I'd find it ridiculous if they took a bus from, say, Frontier, instead of 5290, which in real life is assigned to Frankford).
Any ideas on what would make an eye-catching new graphic/paint scheme for MTA's NYC bus fleet?
How about a graffiti scheme reminisicent of the 70's? 8-)
I'd go back to the color scheme of the 1968-1981 or 82 time period.
#3 West End Jeff
I'd keep it basically the same, excpet I would increase the size of the "MTA New York City Bus" logo. Westchester County just recently altered their paint scheme. They remonved the bule and yellow stripe from the rear of the front door (and the rear of the driver's seat), removing the stripes that went around the immediate front nose, and moved ther stripes up about 45 degrees heading to the roof, depicting the stripes going up. In the empty side areas now created, it put its new logo of "Westchester gov.com", with the bumble bee to the lower left of the logo. It also left a bland front lower nose so advertisement can be freely placed. I wonder if TDI hlped defray this cost.
Explaination:
My variation of this scheme takes a little bit from other companies and the past.
Taking the idea of SEPTA, I used a Blue to White Gradient above the in windows, towards the front you have the blue which explodes to cover the whole front, giving the Front of the bus some Color, in the front we'd have a White MTA logo right in the Center like todays standard Logo. I took a little of the past and reverted to a Blue Skirt Panel. Going on the idea of bigger fonts, I took the MTA New York City Transit insignia to the rear and made it bigger. Moving the Coaches number back to the pre 1990s scheme position and making it larger also. I took the Garage patch, moved it to the front under the driver's window and made it bigger, something similar to NJT's State Seal idea. This leaves the base of the bus white for advertising without have to distroy any blue stripping or logos.
Photo (Using a Neoplan AN-460 Transliner Artic)
Thanks To My Staff Member, Neil Greenberg for the Bus Blueprint:
I had a storage of ideas I came up with but can't find them, I'll come up with a few more schemes and post them here within this weekend.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I think that's an excellent idea. I always like tasteful paint schemes that "accomodate" the advertisements. I think NYBS' paint scheme does this very well. I'm also afraid that... knowing NYCT anyone who may come up with the idea for logos/paint scheme would not think to consult with the advertising folks. A prime example is how the fleet number on the drivers' side of the buses gets covered by the ads. I think NYCT would also do well to relocate the side fleet number to positions above the drivers' window and the entrance door.
Wayne
Not too bad. I believe that the current NYC Bus paint scheme is classic in its simplicity, and that any new scheme should be evolutionary, not revolutionary. I'm wary of NYCT trying to one-up NJ Transit's wild new schemes and going over the top.
And, please, whatever you do, NO RED WHITE & BLUE!!!
JD
It looks cool, I like it. NYCTA has been using the same paint scheme for over 20 years maybe its about time they should change it, I don't know. I practically, grew with today's blue & white scheme, so it will seem strange for me to look at a new one. I'm probably one of the few people that isn't tired of today's paint scheme. So I don't care too much if it changes or not.
Not too bad, but what it is up with the purple hues?
Well, I'm stuck in my Grumman Years! The Grummans Scheme's Blue was soooo deep it almost looked purple!
Trevor
Okay, I like it. Looks like the blue stripe was dropped to the skirting while SEPTIC raised theirs above the windows !
Just for giggles, can you do one showing an RTS or Orion ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Sure! Give me a day!
Trevor
Hmm, I wonder how the Castleton Depot sticker got to the front of the bus. Anyway, I think its cool, now lets see it on a RTS, Orion and the New Flyers. However, I'm familiar with the blue stripe/white and I like it but it won't bother me if it were to be changed.
It's a nice scheme. Maybe when they create the "MTA Bus" company, they could institute the scheme on their buses.
I doubt NYCT will be changing the paint scheme of the buses anytime soon. White with blue seems to be the official colors of NYC. For instance, the NYPD police cars are also white and blue now and the sanitation trucks are also white. Personally, I like the current paint scheme, but the only thing I would improve on would be the blue stripe. I would put a thin line above and below it similar to the way the privates like Queens Surface has it.
BIG AL
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I was driving in New Jersey past where the old CNJ Elizabethport station was. Further down, I encountered a big CoachUSA bus yard. In the yard were some white diesel Orions with a narrower back door than I've seen elsewhere. I assume these buses aren't wheelchair compliant. The front signs were blue and said Newark International Airport.
Bill "Newkirk"
There are several series of Orion V buses in service at Newark Liberty International Airport. At least one of the series are buses similar to the 5500's at Green Bus Lines. I haven't studied them enough to be able to contribute much more info; hopefully, one or more other BusTalkers know more about these buses.
As an aside, the narrower back door may not necessarily mean the buses aren't wheelchair compliant. The wheelchair lift may very well be at the front door. I believe the main reason NYCT ordered its Orion V's with rear wheelchair lifts was to keep the position of the lift similar to that on the RTS's.
Those buses in question are exactly the same ones as GBL Orion V's.They were all part of WMATA rejected 1997 order. The rear door (which exactly the same door you had on the new look Flxibles)is that way because the w/c lift is located at the front door.
Yes and No. Yes - WMATA Orions do indeed have the narrow rear door and w/c lifts in the front, but it doesn't have to be that way. Montgomery County Ride-On Orion V can be considered a cross between NYCTA and WMATA Orion V's because they have the lift in the front door (where it should be), but they also have the wide rear door like NYCTA Orions.
Wayne
Wayne
Actually, I've seen more Orion V's with wide rear doors regardless of W/C Lift locations. WMATA's Orions are one of the few that has a narrow rear door, perhaps it saved WMATA a couple of bucks along with the addition of an additional strip window right in front of the narrow rear door.
However, I would perfer a wide rear door for easier unloading (WMATA Orion rear doors are a pain to get out of). Also, that additional strip window is useless. What I would really like to try are Dual-Stream rear doors such as the ones at http://www.cyride.com/Orion%20V.htm . Another question : do rear door size affect right side seating configuration? I've noticed that WMATA's Orions has more seats on the right side versus Ride-on's 40' Orion.
I didn't think about the seating, but you raise a good point. Perhaps WMATA wanted the extra space for additional seats on that side.
Wayne
Today for the 1st time nearly 10 Months since the last sighting of the OrionV CNG Suburban on the Q65A. It's happin again!
502 on the Q65A.That's right! 502 ON Q65A!
Unless there is an extenuating circumstance, like a maintenance campaign thaty forces QSC to hold in many units, these are not to be used oin local routes. Unless someone errored or just doesn't care anymore.
Well I saw it with people inside it. It was going to do the 12:57 PM Trip to Jewel Ave and 164 St. And I saw it with a black A/C Unit Cover so it was a OrionV CNG Suburban. Something must had happin at QSC!
Hey, how about one of those on a 65?
That would be a nice change for the Q65 Riders! :)
Yesterday I saw 514 and 534 on the Q65A. Today I saw 520 on the Q104. I assume that QSC would like to keep all of their TMC Buses off of the road on the weekends and only run the Onion CNGs. That's my assumption.
#520 Q104
Thats just great! In the meantime QSC keeps sticking the Orion V CNG 400's on the express routes....try sitting on a hard seat or an hour...see how it feels.
Lately QSC has been going downhill! The drivers have become rude and obnoxious...the buses are filthy and constantly breaking down...and what the point of having a schedule if they dont follow it.
I am really starting to get fed up with it. Last week while waiting for the QM1a to Glen Oaks on Madison and 57th, I saw 5...yes 5 400 numbered Orion V's on express routes...QM2, QM2a, QM4, QM1a, and QM1.
Where are all the 500 numbered Suburbans??????
If you have a problem with QSC - remember this......Bus-Talk poster "Thurston" is the director of revenue for QSC. E-mail or post your problem here and he will try to get an answer for you.
Bear in mind that Thurston is only an employee in the management of the company and not an owner, so his help may be somewhat limited.
Hart Bus,
I have complained to QSC but to no avail. The response I received was basically politically correct and off topic. Basically a smooth way of saying that local buses are not used on express routes.
I sorry to hear that.
They do run on a schedule but sometimes due to traffic and how many people get on at a stop tends to make it late and it can be hard to get back on schedule.
The reason why you have saw OrionV CNG 400 Series on the express lines is because of the shortage of MCI Classics right now. I used to see like about 4-6 or more classics a day. Now it just 1-2 a day.
BTW I have seen hard seaters on the express lines,Even on weekends.
The only time I had a hard seater was on a saturday the 7 PM QM1A Glen Oaks via Fresh Meadows and that was RTS #378.
Other trips I had seen hard seaters on a weekend is the last QM1A into Manhattan from NST on a sunday. I have saw RTS #389 and OrionV CNG #471 on that trip. This was doing the month of December.
I hear ya on the MCI Classics...I have not seen that many around lately. Maybe Thurston can give us some insight as to whether they are out for overhaul or they are being scrapped.
The RTS's are rarely on Express routes, although in the last 6 months I have had to ride one on the QM1A.
As far as the Orion V 400numbered hard seaters, those are more often than not...on express routes.
I ride everyday back and forth during the week...so thats 10 trips a week. Right now, the percentage of 400# hard seaters to 500# suburbans is about 50/50 from what I have noticed. So about 5 out of 10 trips during the week is a hard seater.
Thurston...any insight?
I totally agree with you man. The drivers are a mixed bag for me. Most of them are passive with passengers or they sometimes offer friendly gestures. If I do meet a mean driver, and it's rare, it usually when I want to pucnch their lights out.
Otherwise, the schedule and bus service are to me, lower than average than the MTA's or maybe the all the Private Lines in Queens. It seems all of the RTS' have problems with heating and are horribly cold when I board them. One of them had a pole broken! Whenever I catch a Q65 for my commute, the scheduling of the buses is ridiclous and unacceptable. Many times, the bus I get on gets packed in only a couple of stops. Needless to say, I get fumed when I see a probably warmed-up Orion with 3 people blaring by. Amazing.
Well the Orions are not the best either. In the winter with the heat on they get blistering hot...the minute they turn off the heat it gets ice cold. In the summer with the air conditioning it gets ICE COLD and the minute they turn it off it gets hot. Its a no win situation. The Orion V has to be the worse bus created ever. HAlf of the time it sounds like it is going to fall apart.
Next time you are on one of the Orion Vs...listen when it goes over a bump...toward the center of the bus it sounds like its going to buckle....like if you take a snapple cap and poke it up it goes click? like that but only deeper....quite freaky!!!
I am wishing for the day we get MCI D4500's but....I think thats like wishing for the cows to come home. I sigh evertime I am waiting for the QM1A on 57th street and I see a NYCT MCI D4501 go by. *sigh*
Then why don't you take eather the X63,X64,or X68 to 78 Ave/Queens Blvd then transfer to the Q46.
Yes,I have seen people transfering between the Q46 and the X63,X64,X68 Lines and sometimes people transfer from the Q37 and Q74 to the express lines said above.
Verry few people Transfer from X63,X64,X68 lines to the Q60. When I rode a MCI on the X68 going home I got off at 78 Ave and transfer to the Q60 to get home(And this was doing when the QM21 was not running in the summer time)
BTW I was the only one on the X68 bus to transfer to the Q60. Alot of people where for the Q46 and Q74 lines
509 doing the 2:42 PM and 4:42 PM and #517 doing the 2:57 PM. All where going towards 164 St and saw it in Forest Hills.
And also it was not 10 Months. After April the next time I saw them was on August 8,The day QSC was running again. Saw 4 OrionV CNG Suburbans running the Q65A
I saw 519 by the Ridgewood Savings Bank at about 11:00am on the Q65A
550 was the last Q104 tonight. Yesterday I saw 509 on Q104 as well.
#550 Q104
I see this all the time now - why so unusual ? Triboro does it all the time.
Well I guessing because the RTS's are 10 Years old now,So maybe the RTS's have become Weekdays Only since I have not saw a RTS doing weekend service since Last Month
With the recent delivery of 21 Neoplan artics to WMATA, it is still a shame that WMATA ordered more. WMATA definitely needed more and I believe that these garages should have had:
Montgomery: 10 to 20 MORE (J2 and or the Q2 should be at least 50% artic if not all artic)
Bladensburg:20 to 30 more(X2 should be all artic, but this route isn't the only one that should run artics)
Landover:5 to 10 (F4 most likely, with the T18,C21-26, P12 and maybe the V12 getting them, with execpt for the F4 the other routes just need frequency improvements)
Four Mile Run:15 to 25 (7, 16, and maybe the 23A need them)
Royal: about 5 (The 28A and B are the only routes that need these buses)
Southern: at least 25 (most of Southern's routes need artics)
Western: at least 20( 30s and 42 need them the most)
Northern: at least 15 more (Ss, 50s and 70s need them)
Annex: at least 5 ( only for the C11)
I am not sure if Arlington needs Arlington, 1C Ballston would know more about this.
Even though I know WMATA is trying to increase frequency on its bus routes, they still needed to purchase more artics, I would have guessed at least 70 artics.
The only problem is that only Montgomery, Northern, and Bladensburg can currently maintain an artic. Of course, if we made routes such as the J2 and Q2 all articulated, the 40 foot buses could run elsewhere and increase service. Of course, then you have issues at places such as Western, which is bursting at the seams from what I know. Also, I wouldn't count on any service increases considering what the last round of service changes was.
I remember back in the 80`s and early 90's Four Mile had some of the MAN artics. So I would include Four Mile in that list of garages that can handle artics.
I am not sure if Landover had the lifts long enough to handle artics, they did have for a time NABIs 5242-44 for about a couple of years, before 5242 went to Montgomery and 5243 and 44 went to Bladensburg.
Today, while leaving the Comcast Center after watching the Terps destroy Florida State, I waited, as ususal for the Shuttle-UM to pick us up and shuttle me and my friend back to Lot 1, which is where we parked and is across campus. The bus did not show up until 25 MINUTES after the game ended. Traffic I heard, was not backed up so the bus wasn't stuck in it. It was cold and I was freezing so that's why I'm ranting about it.
Started out by taking the Q train from Newkirk Av, took it to 14 St, transferred to the L took a R42 L to Myrtle Av where I would get off and catch the shuttle bus. First I got on 4360 took it to Broadway Junction, nice smooth ride and had good acceleration, in fact most of the buses I rode were GM's or early TMC's and they all to my surprise had good accel. Anyway, I get off at Van Sinderen, walk to Fulton St to catch 4703 which was heading back to Myrtle Av. Driver was driving very good at first on Bushwick but once we went on Decatur St, he drove no more than 20mph the rest of the way.
Then I decide to ride the A so I run across the street trying to catch 5209 but I let it go b/c it was too crowded so 9154 was right behind it and I get in that. Good accel, good driver but couldn't get good speed since the road [Cooper Av] was narrow and there was enough traffic to slow up the bus then I arrive at B'way once againI noticed L riders go through shuttle bus service disproportionately to other lines in the system. Then I hop on a R38 A and I take it all the way to Far Rockaway and I take it back to 80 St, where I would get off to ride the A shuttle bus to Lefferts Blvd. I wait a few minutes until 4555 comes up and I ride it to Lefferts Blvd, then wait around the corner for the next bus to arrive. It takes 10 minutes due to traffic on Lefferts Blvd for Orion 574 to come up.
We get a good crowd heading back to 80 St and the driver does pretty good speedwise. Then I start heading back to Brookly so I hop on another R38 A, take it via express to Broadway Junction, get off to take the L shuttle bus once more and what better bus to catch than a RTS suburban :-). There a BIG CROWD on Fulton St so people is fighting to get in 9319 to get a seat on the comfy bus. We would go no faster than 15mph the WHOLE route but it was a suburban with adequate heat so I was like what the heck, go as slow as possible. We get stuck in traffic on Wyckoff Av for about 10 minutes then we finaly reach the stop and I go downstairs to catch the L heading toward Manhattan.
So I grab another R42 and we go quickly and I reach my destination, which is Union Sq, then it takes some time for the Q to come then it arrives and I take it home.
Not too many buses on either shuttle bus since they were rather short nonetheless I still had fun. Here's the buses I saw on both shuttle buses.
(A) Shuttle bus:
ENY 4360, 5209
FP 4703, 9154
JG 8523, 8557
UP 9078, 9319
FB 8439
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Shuttle bus:
JAM 4555, 4581, 5151
QV 8383, 8388, 8372, 8382
CS 232, 574, 274
R68 2821 (Q)
R42 4817 (L)
RTS 4360 L SHUTTLE
RTS 4703 L SHUTTLE
RTS 9154 L SHUTTLE
R38 3951
R38 4147[Return]
RTS 4555 A SHUTTLE
Orion 574 A SHUTTLE
R38 4134 (A)
RTS 9319 L SHUTTLE
R42 4644 (L)
R68 2817 (Q)
With the possibility of the MTA taking over at the Private Lines what are they going to do with some of the older buses. The old GMC Rts buses are filthy, windows are all scratched out, they are smokey. Many MTA RTS buses that have been retired / sold were in much better shape.
Also the seats are green.
Any comments?
That decision will be made at the appropriate time by NYCDOT and/or Transit's Department of Buses.
It's all about money: 1st money has to come from somewhere for the MTA to want to do the deal. After we're one big happy family, then you'll need money to ungrade the fleet.
With the money problems the MTA already has Mayor Mike may have to keep his fleet for a while longer whether he wants to or not.
On friday I saw an orion Suburban on the Wall Street/York Avenue X90/X92 express. That was the first time I saw an Orion up there it was a Quill bus, forgot the number it was a repower.
I've seen an Onion Suburban on the M42. Got 2 pics of 142 and 1 of 164.
Coming to Transitalk.org soon.
#142 M42
I dont know...while they do have some old buses - They have a lot of new ones also - Stand on 14th Street and see what passes - Most will be new. I think MV seems to have a large fleet of old buses.
Yes but from what I've seen, the M6, M8, M11 and M14 get more of the newer buses like the 8400's/8500's and the Novas. Now wait for a M21 & M22, which always seems to have the GM's. The M16/M34 is nothing but 8200's & 8400's most of the time [which isn't so bad]. The M9 is in the middle they have a assortment of GM's, TMC's and Novas. On the Q32, you NEVER see a GM plus they have Orions from Casey Stengel which runs the majority of buses on the route.
Actually, I've heard that GMC RTS 4165 is a regular on the Q32, and from the sounds of it, the worst bus in the fleet. I'd give anything to be on that bus as it struggles over the bridge, motor screaming just to hit 20mph.
HP has a few 3400's, which are 1984 GMC's. I don't know why but I like buses that struggle to gain speed. If you want a bus that struggles to gain speed, TMC RTS 4868 of Ulmer Park is a perfect candidate. It has good accel but when it hits 20mph, it stays there for some time then the speed just comes through.
I remember old 2158 from Houston. I discovered it in late 1998. It would start off with good acceleration, then it would hang for awhile, screaming, and if the driver would take his foot off the peddle, it would jerk, HARD. The good old days.
I think the fastest RTS was 2146 before they re-engined it. Well after too now that I remember. It didn't sound like the other RTS, more like a Flx actually. In the other RTS you could hear the bus progress gear by gear, 2146 went straight frm first to fourth. It was fast. And when it slowed down, instead of the usual RTS scream, it just went whoooooooooooooooooo until it stopped. Very unique.
Speaking of buses progressing gear by gear, 5075-5124 here in NY has a special 5 gear transmission, a ZF5 transmission. They did repowers to selected 1990/1991 TMC's[8000-8396] and all the 1993 TMC's[8401-8566] here as well using a DD50 engine. On the 1990/1991 they are worse than the original engines; on the 1993 TMC's it worked out b/c the originals were awful, especially when it came to acceleration.
Some GM's have good accel and progress real well like 1985 GM 4116[I hope that bus sticks around in Flatbush depot]. It seems like FB took good care of the engines for the 1985 and 1986 GM's since they don't stall at around 25mph for a while as much as other depots. Some 1997 Nova RTS's like 9412 and 9435 has a top speed of 35mph, which is flat out ridiculous and all New Flyer artics top speed is 40mph.
Originals are the best. 4116 was a FP original, however I don't miss it like the 4145. Please come back to Fresh Pond.
I agree with you that originals are the best. I love buses that remain in 1 depot their entire career. Seems unlikely 4145 would come back to Brooklyn, unfortunately. I miss the 1984 GM's at Ulmer Park, they were pretty good; too bad they were scrapped earlier than they should have.
PA1767 stayed it's entire 20 year career at FP.
Sorry, that is wholly incorrect. PA1767 finished it's career at Queens Village, certainly from 1998 until retirement.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
and also saidly. PA1767 was the last PA Unit
Whoops. That's what I meant. The whole FP discussion took my mind for a loop.
1755 stayed entirely at Jamaica.
#1755 X64
Hasn't 4014 spent it's entire time at ENY??
Yes, 4014 is still in ENY. It's the only old original that ENY has. It's in pretty bad shape, but not as bad as the 3997 in FP. ENY dumped the worst buses on us.
I agree 3997 IS a horrible bus. They should of dropped 3985, 3990 on Fresh Pond for example, those were better buses.
Well No. I do think that there has been Suburbans at FP,and also end it's life in FP as well. That bus was #1758? as I can rember. I rode it on the Q54 at one time back in around 1999-2000. It was doing the time of the work on the bridge shutting service between Mercy and Essex
NYCT never had 2100 series RTS'. They skipped 1859 to 2199.
No, I'm talking about Houston RTS. That's where I live.
And on top of that-it shorted out the last time I rode it on Q32.
That bus is a piece of junk.
Also I've seen 3469 3489 4019 4045 4159 4163 4165 4548 4873 and 4883 on the Q32 recently. As of a matter of fact, I've rode on all but 4159 4163 and 4548 on the Q32 w/in the past month.
#4873 Q32
Guess its time for 4165 to go into retirement. Did anyone ever ride Orion 522 of Casey Stengel on the Q32, or this particular bus in general? Man is that bus SLOW! I caught it on the Q32 in the summer and it really struggled to gain speed on the Queensboro Bridge, went no more than 30mph the whole time we were on the bridge AND it was a open road.
Oh speaking of a bus struggling, 3076 formerly of East New York would take 1st prize in the SLOWEST bus, this bus was junk period. I remember onetime the driver slammed on the gas and it was so slow, you would of enjoyed it, it LITERALLY took about 15 seconds to reach 15mph! Anyone familiar with this bus will tell you so.
Even with the A/C off , the 3000 s were crap . I had to use the parking brake on take offs , use a lower gear ,and try to not open the rear doors . My slowest experiance was # 3989 with # 3191 my favorite 3000 .
Why do some orions have seats right accoss the back and others (most) only have 2 x 2 ?
Easy Answer:
ENGINE DISPLACEMENT
Though the Detroit Diesel Series 50 and the Cummins ISC Engines are small in comparison to the earlier Detroit Deisel (Series 71 and 92) and Cummins (L-10 and M-11E) engines, they are mounted slightly higher in the compartment.
This plays a roll in the center seat in the rear disappearing. The MTA's 1993 Orion 05.501 Diesel buses which have been repowered from the Series 92 to the Series 50, has the seats raised instead of loosing a seat. This is also seen in the Repowered TMC RTS buses, the New Flyer Artics and even the C40LFs. You will notice that your feet will tend to dangle on those buses because the seats are raised due the engine displacement.
On The newer Orions, Orion just got rid of the middle seat all together instead of raising the seat high a notch.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
To RTS 2150, if you lived in NYC belive me you won't find it so attractive. For example, most of the 1983 RTS's that came from other depots were retired IN Brooklyn and we had a DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF THESE. And the ENY depot's 1983's easily took the prize for the WORST in the whole fleet [if anyone remembers 3076, 3090 you'll know]. I wish 3066 & 3087 was still there :-(. Anyway, let me get back to the subject, for NYC natives, you know I'm right and tell others how Brooklyn had to go through THIS! BTW, this was a 325 bus order 3001-3325 but look at the list and see for yourself.
Brooklyn division, all the 1983 RTS's they had before they were retired:
Flatbush had 3001-3064(65)
Fresh Pond had 3305,3307-3312,3314-3319(13)
Ulmer Park had 3095-3099,3128,3140,3160-3164,3171-3173,3279-3292,3294-3299,3302-3304(35)
East New York had 3065-3094,3153-3159,3165-3170,3174-3208,3300, 3306,3313,3320-3325(87)
Jackie Gleason had transferred all of their 1983's already [they had 3153-3185 but were transferred when the 1988 TMC's came there]. (0)
Other divisions:
Gun Hill(Bronx) [and probably other depots OTHER than Brooklyn] had 3100-3127,3129-3139,3141-3152(51)
Castleton & Yukon(Staten Island) [and probably other depots OTHER than Brooklyn] had 3209-3278(80)
As you see, we here in Brooklyn had about 2/3 of the 1983 fleet and some buses were scrapped prior to the mass retirement of these buses.
Well, at least FP didn't have so many of the 1983's as the other depots. For while, the northside and southeast of Houston got alot of the older buses. In Houston, some routes are hooked together, meaning there can be a 4 - Beechnut (on the SW) and a 4 - Jensen (on the NE).
Usually buses that ran on the northside were hooked with buses on the southeast. Flxible Metros and RTS were an everyday thing. Interestingly, on the westside we had alot of RTS and the older Grumman 870's for awhile with a smattering of Flx Metros. Of course we had the good park and ride buses, and some of the local routes such as the 4 - Beechnut would get the Mercedes Benz buses. The Grummans usually stayed on the heavy routes.
At least those sections in Houston had a variety of Grumman Flxibles, Flxible Metros and RTS's. In Brooklyn we have ONLY RTS's, except Jackie Gleason which has RTS's New Flyers and Orion CNG's. At one point JG had buses from 1993 or newer!
Some 1987, 1990/1991 and 1994 TMC's were transferred there b/c of a route [the B8] changing depots in September.
Now only that, Brooklyn also has 2/3 of the 1987 RTS fleet too(thanks to Fresh Pond).
ENY and FP had those bombs, 3009 almost made me cry just looking at it.
Also the 4201 from KB was in terrible condition when it got dumped here. Inside the bus, there was a large crack on the floor, someone's foot could have got stuck in it!!!
Flatbush, I don't mean to complain so much, however its just that there nothing else to look at around here except FP buses. This has to be the least varied neighborhood in Queens when it comes to buses. For the people that live around Jamaica Center, they have buses from QV, JA, CS, Greens Lines, Jamaica Buses, and Queens Surface. The only thing that even comes close to giving Ridgewood any type of variety is Triboro's Q39. That's the real reason I'm so concerned about Fresh Pond, it dominates Ridgewood.
The only thing that balances this out is that we're the first Queens area to get to enjoy the newest trains(R143's). And I hope it stays that way.
3009 was retired with a 6v71N engine intact as well. That bus was a classic
Don't forget the QM24! :)
Yeah, I saw a 4 car R143 set yesterday on the M when I was riding the L shuttle bus [8133-8136]. Not only that its only FP buses and no other depot, the Q39 is pretty infrequent so you see almost nothing else. If I was used to that, I would probably go crazy.
Speaking of the 1987/1988 TMC's, lets see what we got here in Brooklyn.
FB: 4600-4602,4604-4606,4608,4614,4616,4618-4628,4654-4657(24)
JG: 4643-4652(10)
FP: 4658-4661,4663-4674,4676-4684,4686,4688,4693-4741,4743-4751,4880,4881,4884,4890,4891(95)
ENY: 4629-4642(14)
UP: 4753-4769,4771-4792,4854-4872,4874(59)?
NOTE: I could be wrong on the UP roster, it might be less than that.
Sheesh we DO have 2/3 of the early TMC fleet but as long as the buses are working then its ok.
I will be posting bus rosters from NJ Transit. Now these rosters are from a friend of mine a e-mailed them to me. He does not work for NJ Transit but these are his rosters. He's moving away from transit so he asked me to share these with you. Keep one thing in mind...these rosters are outdated because the Howell Bus Depot has both 5000s and 6000s on his roster. Obviously that's changed. I'll post the first couple tonight IF I CAN. Definitely tomorrow. I figured we can share some info on NJ Transit buses. I figured that this would give some people a sense of which buses are at the depots. I just figured that I could help out and contribute. I'll be in touch.
Ray
"Respect the Buses of New York City and New Jersey" That's my motto!
[Keep one thing in mind...these rosters are outdated because the Howell Bus Depot has both 5000s and 6000s on his roster.]
Fairly up-to-date NJ Transit bus rosters can be found at: http://www.davemackey.com/njt/roster.html
Saturday afternoon I rode the Q53 from Beach 116th to Queens Center. On Cross Bay approaching Liberty Avenue, a 1993 RTS Green Bus passed the other direction with passengers. It was only for a split second, but I could've sworn I saw the LED sign say "Q23 VIA 108TH STREET". Is that possible?!
It seems like Green and Triboro buy and sell buses off each other all the time, being co-owned as they are. The interiors of the GMs and RTS owned the both companies are indentical by model: The 1985s have the roll signs and olive green seats; the '93s have LED signs and red seats.
A Green Bus headed south on Cross Bay could be the Q7 to East New York; 11 to Howard Beach; 21 to Rockaway Park; or 41 to Howard Beach. Could it be that the destinations for Green and Triboro routes are combined on the LED sign, and the driver set it the wrong way from Q22? It must've been terribly confusing to any boarding passengers to see a bus with a route designation from another company. Has anyone here seen anything like this?
P.S: A hoped-for fast ride through the marshlands was completely ruined by three cars who cruised in front of us at approximately 30 right next to each other the whole way. Quite unusual, considering driving that stretch at 50 will normally leave you in the dust.
I have seen a Q18 sign on RTS #1145 and #1172
I rode Green bus to Liberty Ave from the Queens Center Mall 1153s front sign also had the Q 23 - 108 street. It was a Q 11.
On all NYCDOT buses with the electric destination signs the codes are listed for all DOT operated routes so it is possible to see a destination sign for a route that is operated by another company.
I believe that the codes are listed not by company order but by route order but i am not sure of it.
I presume that all codes for all DOT routes are listed in case the buses are transferred from one company to another similar when the TA switches buses from one depot to another.
Thank You
[Could it be that the destinations for Green and Triboro routes are combined on the LED sign...?]
Yup. All of NYCDOT's electronic destination signs carry all NYCDOT destination signs; that way, buses can be moved from one company to another, even temporarily, without loss of continuity.
What I meant to say was: All of DOT's electronic destination SIGNS carry all DOT destination READINGS.
That's similar to the NJ Transit buses which are leased to the private carriers. AFAIK, all NJT-owned buses have all destination signs - NJT operated and privately operated.
[AFAIK, all NJT-owned buses have all destination signs - NJT operated and privately operated.]
Does anyone know if destination signs are programmed in for the ShortLine/Coach USA routes? I have yet to see one of the ShortLine new state D4500's (high 8700's thru about 8805) with a side or front destination sign on. I have heard a rumor that the signs contain route numbers, but ShortLine doesn't like to use them.
ShortLine, afaik, NEVER has any of its destination signs on, even if they had destination sign codes (actually, I may be wrong about that...correct me someone...Trevor, or anyone...). Red & Tan definitely, but ShortLine, I have YET to see a Shortline D4500 with a working destination sign...
Correct me, anyone, if I am wrong about that...
Carlton
Transit Is My Drug
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...
NEW URL: http://www.cleanairbus.tk
I actually have photos of the Short Line/NJT D4500 Cruisers with the Destination signs, Shortly after the delivery to the Mahwah Garage, Short Line turned the signs off.
I went throught the whole program when the signs were on, they only had 4 codes...
CHARTER
SHORT LINE
NOT IN SERVICE
TEST PATTERN
So the signs never got programmed. And my feeling is that Short Line doesn't have the proper cables to input the readings that were on the MC9As and Bs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Ah, very well...makes sense...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Well, I'm not too surprised considering the 1994 TMC's in Triboro & Green are very similar too each other. So I guess a DOT bus with an LED des. sign can show any DOT owned route. 1183 and 1184 in Triboro that came from Green lines is a good example of this.
BTW, has anyone seen any Triboro CNG Orions with blue lit LED des. signs? Its similar to the NYCT buses with the blue lit signs an the back(where the route # is).
I have seen it on the LIE
Okay, well it appears that my friend has given me his or I should say DAVE MACKEY's bus roster. He told me it was his own roster. I've should have known then. Also, thanks to "SID from NJ" comment...it was Dave Mackey's bus roster. Well, at least we can make changes because the roster goes back to January 2002. After I compared both rosters and they are exactly the same....so here's the first roster, which is the Big Tree Bus Depot. I'll post these rosters on at a time so we can make corrections.
BIG TREE BUS DEPOT
1986 Volvo B10M: 9121-9135, 9138-9144, 9147-9149
1994 Flxible Metro-D: 1908-1929
1994 Flxible Metro-D Suburban: 3728-3729, 3745-3768
Well, make the necessary changes and I'll post the next bus depot next week. Any changes I'll add onto the proper bus roster.
Ray
Can you tell me of the lines runs out of Big Tree? Start with Local NJ Routes then Routes to NYC and then express routes with in NJ(Non-NYC)
Big tree does parts of the 39 and the 13 . They also do the #40 , 76, 99 and 78 as far as I know. They have no NYC service. They do the bus shuttle for the 7 city subway.
Troy
Fairview garage
Question: would anyone know the dates these buses entered and retired from service, the fleet and GMC model numbers, and which ones were assigned to either the NYCTA and MaBSTOA? Also, was #8144, the unit which is now in the NYCTA Museum, in revenue service in 1981? Thank you.
Here's some info about most of them (5303)
5516-5525 MABSTOA 1963 TDH-5303
6701-6900 MABSTOA 1965 TDH-5303
8000-8202 NYCTA 1966 TDH-5303AC
8301-8780 MABSTOA 1966 TDH-5303AC
5516-5525 actually had standee windows, but the Bus-O-Rama signs were placed over them. Later there were a bunch of 1968 T6H-5305A in the 8800 series, but I don't remember the exact numbers. TA/OA had lots of other 5303's (3300-3555 OA, 3600-3950 TA, 5200-5525 OA & 6401-6700 OA and most of them were retired in the early-mid 80's. Only the 8000 series had air conditioning.
Wayne
2 corrections:
MaBSTOA 8466 is the museum bus that has the Busorama ads and has the highback suburban type seating as well. This bus was in actual service.
NYCTA fleet was 8001-8202.
Also, the 1968 T6H-5305A buses with Busoramas were 8829-8878.
Thank you Rich, those corrections are very much appreciated.
Thank you Wayne, I sincerely appreciate your response.
Weren't some of the 8000 series "Blitzed"?
Yes plenty of them were Blitz.
From the 1966 TDH-5303AC (8001-8202, 8301-8780) only 23 buses were done - and renumbered as 5000-5022. From the 1968 T6H-5305A many of them (8800-8927) were done.
Wayne
[From the 1966 TDH-5303AC (8001-8202, 8301-8780) only 23 buses were done - and renumbered as 5000-5022. From the 1968 T6H-5305A many of them (8800-8927) were done.]
The Blitzing of these buses was done after removing the bat wings (a/k/a bus-o-ramas). That left the exteriors looking like Toronto new look buses, i.e., without standee windows.
This roster is correct.
However, you left out #3472. This was the first new look TDH 5303 (no a/c and with standee windows) to have the "batwing" as an experiment.
The wings had no destination curtain, just an empty fluted aluminum square in the middle between the two ads.
The wing corners were not rounded like the later versions but rather had a straight knife-like edges coming to a point.
The round metal logo was, are you ready...
The letters "TA"in the middle with the script: Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority around the edges rather than the "OA"!
I trying to look for a wrap ad that used to be on some Green Lines Classics. It was an ad for Godzilla,Do anybody have pics of them? It be nice to that person who have it to post them here or set up a link here to it.
Went in late and came home by public transit, made for a different type of day.
Nothing of interest at Friendship Heights. I was too late to see any CNGs on the 30s. Got on the Metro (Rohr 1160) which I took to White Flint. A 5 and a 46 both went by before I got to the stop, but I wanted a 38. It came, about 10 minutes late (and since I was there 10 minutes before it was due, I spent 20 minutes in the cold), and when it did, it was Orion I 5509. Talk about a crappy bus. Driver wasn't too great. He was listening to music and didn't go too fast although he did help a blind passenger get to his stop. We didn't make up any time on the trip despite having very few lights or slow traffic on Montrose Road. While waiting at White Flint, I saw some buses deadheading to Montgomery but didn't get any numbers.
I did take public transit home, as stated above. Got to the stop early, and lo and behold, I see the bus coming a few minutes late. As it gets closer, I see it is an Orion V, and as it gets closer, I see that is is 5705. Absolutely nothing to distinguish the bus from any other Orion V except it has a silver bike rack and there was a black ribbon tied on to it. I asked the driver how long it had been in service and he said it was never out. No one else knew what had happened on the bus until they heard me and the driver discussing it. Absolutely nothing on the inside of the bus to have a way of knowing. Had schedules for the 30 and T2 in addition to the 38 so it was probably running there as of late. Got pictures at White Flint and then took the Red Line (Breda 4002) home.
When I rode 5705, no body else seemed to know what had happened either, although there was only 5 people on the bus and nobody was talking.
I never noticed a SILVER bike rack on that bus, maybe I just didn't pay much attention, it was in the darkness of Bethesda station when I got on.
I didn't take any pictures of this bus when I rode it back in 11/01. I think I would have noticed if the bus had a silver rack back then. Does anyone have a picture of the bus in the funeral procession? It wasn't entirely covered by the black ribbon.
Also, Bethesda shouldn't have been too dark so that you wouldn't have noticed.
I imagine the police may have had 5705 for a short time, but I've been seeing it regularly shortly after C. Johnson's funeral. Some of them still do have the "In Memory Of Conrad Johnson" signs on them.
Wayne
Which ones? I haven't seen 5722 for awhile. I saw 5706 this morning and it didn't have one, nor did any of the other 40 foot Orions I saw today. Do remember I tend to be in "Northern" territory, so to ride or see these buses for me is rare.
I've seen 5722 a couple times within the past 2 weeks, it still has both banners.
Add 5725 to the list of buses with banners, rode and photographed it on the 38 this afternoon.
I saw 2 buses last week, one I couldn't get the number and the other I'm relatively sure it was 5724.
Wayne
Well it's been about a month since the 4 new articulated buses arrived at 126th Street Depot and it seems that they have spent more time in maintenance than on the road. The biggest headache has been with the fareboxes not functioning properly. There appears to be some sort of wiring problem that causes them to short out. My uneducated guess would be that the incredible vibration they undergo while the bus is in motion might have something to do with it. The other most prevalent problem has been with slow closing rear doors. Hopefully these teething problems can be resolved and the rest of 126's allotment of buses will arrive soon.
Who was the manufacturer of the affected buses. IF I'm not moistaken, Neoplan was the manufacturer of the "Artics" for the "Bee-Line" in Westchester County.
#3 West End Jeff
Thay are New Flyers, just like the rest off them. It seem the T/A won't uses any other compney to build them.
Robert
So far, I don't think that Westchester County is having any signifcant problems with their new artics that I'm aware of.
#3 West End Jeff
i saw one of the artics running today. i was too far away to catch the number but it was headed to City Hall. It was on Worth Street around 11 this morning.
#4753-GMC RTSII-04 B1
I rode one of the new artics (5528?) on the M79 on Tuesday. The wind blew the rear door open and I had to pull it closed before the bus could move. I thought they fixed that problem with the 1982 RTS!
I've got one better. I was driving # 5511 the other day and the engine compartment door came open without me knowing it. I didn't discover it until I got down to South Ferry. It happened twice more before one of the dispatchers taped it shut with duct tape. I understand that the problem has been corrected so it shouldn't happen again.
Given that the artics have been here since '96, why are all these happening?
See my previous post in response to Gotham Bus Company.
Could it be a TA/OA problem? Given where the artics have already been running, maybe they're perceived as OA buses which are not to be touched by TA maintainers.
It's not a TA/OA problem. It's more of a build quality problem. These are the first of a large order of 260 buses and usually the first batch always has some kind of teething problems. Hopefully the manufacturer will iron out these problems so that the balance of the order will be relatively trouble free.
I found this little tidbit of information on the greyhoundthroughexpress message board:
"NJT's new Neoplan Articulated (prototype)will be on display at NJT Headquarters - Penn Plaza Newark - on Wednesday 1/15/03 between 9AM and noon."
Perhaps someone can make it over there and get a photo of the bus and then post it on the board.
Maybe I will volunteer to do so.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Transit Is My Drug
Yeah, I plan to be there just for shits and giggles, TransiTALK already had the pleasure of getting a shot of that baby at the APTA Expo!
I've seen 9501 at least twice in the past month so its been here, once on the Turnpike and then again a day later on I-80!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
lol...
yeah, I was there for some shits and giggles and gasps...I wish they had roof exhaust for that engine...it makes it look better than with floor exhaust...
I was thinking about this earlier so I decided to post it. Remember the days [in the late 80's and early 90's] when people, mostly kids used to "bus ski", when they used to hang on the back of the bus on an RTS by holding on to the part where the A/C is and ride it? Ahh, those were the crazy days of NYC!
They used to do it much earler than that. I remember seeing this done in the late 50s/early 60s on Old Looks.
Peace,
ANDEE
Oh man, where have you been all these years? They still do it, mostly on the Q2 in Queens and on the buses running in the E.N.Y section of Brooklyn.
BIG AL
Sheesh, it still goes on? Wow, I'm surprised. I know kids hang on the back with rollerblades nowadays but I thought hanging on the bus was a thing of the past.
I once rode from kings plaza all the way to bay ridge on the back of the B9
It was cleaner on the outside then on the inside
when the engine was turned off at kings plaza the roachs would come out from behind the seats
They've done it a few times on my bus when I drove the Q3 also. Cars would pull up along side of me and tell me there were kids hanging on the back of my bus. Usually this would go on while passing through the neighborhood of Hollis, the same area mainly served by the Q2.
The operators for the most part really don't give a rat's a**, in my opinion. If the little jerks fall off and get hurt or even worse, there is no way an operator could possibly be blamed since it's impossible to tell if someone is hitching a ride on the back of the bus.
BIG AL
this practice went on in the 60s and probably before that. it was near impossible on the flxibles due to their rounded bumpers. they could of course be seen on old and new looks and even sometimes through rear view mirrors of rts.
Back when I was going to school in Brooklyn, the kids used to always hang on the back of the B12. Some of them used to hold on to the partially open engine cover, which must have been hot. RTS buses weren't the only ones, they did it with Fishbowls too but some some reason they left the 7300 series Flxibles alone.
I remember that quite well, except it was much more common in the 70's and early 80's, especially when the old buses were still around.
Lifted these comments from the Straphanger's web site:
January 9, 2003
Hon. Michael R. Bloomberg
Mayor
City Hall
New York, New York 10007
Dear Mayor Bloomberg:
We write to support your call to have the Metropolitan Transportation Authority takeover the private bus lines now franchised and subsidized by the city - provided that the city and state maintain their current level of financial support, as well as contribute badly-needed capital funds.
We agree that it makes sense for the MTA to operate these lines. The MTA could better coordinate service and realize some modest administrative savings.
It also makes sense that the city maintain its support for the currently franchised system, which is the seventh largest bus fleet in America in terms of ridership. To ask the MTA to operate 82 new routes with reduced city resources would place even greater pressure to raise fares and cut service. The MTA has already proposed hiking fares as much as 33% this year, as well as a range of serious service reductions. The agency says it has a $1.1 billion deficit in 2003.
Higher fares and less service would discourage transit use and undermine one of your key goals, reducing traffic congestion and its negative impact on city business and the quality of life here.
We appreciate the tough financial problems the city faces. But it's the wrong way to go to ask the subway and bus riders who use New York City Transit to foot the city's bill for the private bus routes.
The city contribution to the operations of the transit system is already very modest, about 5% of MTA New York City Transit's budget (some $250 million out of this year's $4.8 billion this year.) In fiscal year 2002, the city spent another $110 million subsidizing its private franchised buses, with the state providing another $52 million. The city and its economy receive a huge return from these investments.
Any MTA takeover should also come with new city capital funding to meet the considerable rebuilding needs of the city franchised buses. In 2000, this system operated 1, 291 city-owned buses on 44 local and 36 express routes. Currently, the city provides only 3% of the MTA's 2000-2004 capital program ($535 million out of $18.9 billion.)
Of course, we would expect the MTA to incorporate the city-owned buses into its Clean-Fuel Bus program, to ensure that the environmental benefits of the City's natural gas bus program are not lost in any transition, cost-cutting or other measures.
We appreciate your consideration of our views.
Yours truly,
Gene Russianoff Jeffrey Zupan
Yesterday I decided to take a little bus trip in Nassau County starting with the N6,Orion CNG #308 from Jamaica-Hempstead.From there I took the N27,Orion CNG #154 to Glen Cove.While passing by LIBus H.Q.
I saw a few 500 series Orion diesel's,the only number I really remember is 581.After arriving at Glen Cove,took the N21,Orion diesel #646 to Great Neck RR and from there I ended my trip with taking the N26,Orion CNG #354 back to Jamaica at 4:30p.I let Orion diesel #602 at 4:00p go to take a quick tour of The Gardens shopping center and get myself a drink.On the trip to Jamaica,I noticed the weirdest thing around the LIJ Hosp. The bus stop at LIJ was the LIBus type bus stop sign but it included the Q46! the Q46 is a city transit bus,why is it there and doesn't have it's own bus stop sign? I never seen that before untill yesterday. A MTA NYCT bus route on a LIBus bus stop sign,doesn't that seem a bit strange? Anywho,after arriving at Jamaica Bus Term.,I took the Q8 to Euclid and hopped on the C train home.
On a sidenote not related to this:A couple of weeks ago when I did the Bee-Line Bus trip,which I posted what I did on a previous post, the one thing I forgot to mention was while on the 13 at Tarrytown before reaching the train station,I saw yet another MTA bus go in the opposite direction. I can't remember the bus number exactly but it was a 5200 series out of ENY depot in Brooklyn.Talk about a small world when before I saw it,I was thinking that I hadn't seen a MTA bus at all and then poof! there goes 52xx out of ENY.I wonder why it was around there anyway. It just amazes me that everytime,so far, that I've gone to Westchester,I've seen an MTA bus somewhere between White Plains and Tarrytown.Only exception is when I go to Cross County shopping center,havn't seen any on my way there...yet.
So you were in my neck of the woods,eh!
Let me know what you thought of Glen Cove. Also next time, I highly recommend stopping at Szechuan express in Greenvale. From there you can get the N20 back to Queens.
Yep I was in your neck of the woods at Bridge St and Pratt Blvd. Honestly,it isn't bad,but damn,once I got off the N27,I was dyin for the 21 to show up.The wind picked up and I was freezing! all while trying to eat a donut and keep the bus schedule's I picked up at Hempstead from getting blown away.And yes one of those schedule's happen's to be of the NEW N43.And I also saw the 43 at Roosevelt Field when the N27 got there.It was Orion CNG #174 doing the 2:30 out of Roosevelt Field.Heh,I was badly wishing for the N21 to show up when I got to Glen Cove but I think I should've regretted it.The driver of the bus zipped,and I mean literally zipped through the route from Glen Cove-Roslyn.Yeesh!I must've nearly fallen out of seat like 5 times when the female driver just speeded through the curves and stopped the bus at red signal's.I love speed,but that was overkill city,let me tell ya.
I dunno if anyone can help but,at Hempstead,I noticed a service notice of a detour of the 43 because of something going on at Brookside Av.This is a detour untill further notice. Anyone know what's going on?Some road reconstruction maybe?
Interesting.
I run on Brookside Avenue a couple days a week and didn't see anything to indicate that there was any construction coming. I'll take a look over the next few days and let you know.
CG
[The bus stop at LIJ was the LIBus type bus stop sign but it included the Q46! the Q46 is a city transit bus,why is it there and doesn't have it's own bus stop sign? I never seen that before untill yesterday. A MTA NYCT bus route on a LIBus bus stop sign,doesn't that seem a bit strange?]
The roadway in front of the main entrance to LI Jewish Hospital is evidently in Nassau County, so it would be a county agency rather than NYCDOT that would be responsible for putting up the bus stop sign. It is sort of the opposite of what you see in Queens - LI Bus routes like the N4 and N6 listed on NYC bus stop signs. What I don't know is what kind of bus stop signs are up for the Q5 and Q85 around Green Acres? I am betting that those are also LI Bus bus stop signs.
You'd lose that bet because there aren't any LIBus style bus stop signs at Green Acres.Just some cheesy looking signs that have been there since the Q5&85 were extended there in the late 80's I bet.Well ok there are a few LIBus signs there but they only say N1,N2,N3. Nothing about the Q5&85.
Yesterday I decided to take a little bus trip in Nassau County starting with the N6,Orion CNG #308 from Jamaica-Hempstead.From there I took the N27,Orion CNG #154 to Glen Cove.While passing by LIBus H.Q.
I saw a few 500 series Orion diesel's,the only number I really remember is 581.After arriving at Glen Cove,took the N21,Orion diesel #646 to Great Neck RR and from there I ended my trip with taking the N26,Orion CNG #354 back to Jamaica at 4:30p.I let Orion diesel #602 at 4:00p go to take a quick tour of The Gardens shopping center and get myself a drink.On the trip to Jamaica,I noticed the weirdest thing around the LIJ Hosp. The bus stop at LIJ was the LIBus type bus stop sign but it included the Q46! the Q46 is a city transit bus,why is it there and doesn't have it's own bus stop sign? I never seen that before untill yesterday. A MTA NYCT bus route on a LIBus bus stop sign,doesn't that seem a bit strange? Anywho,after arriving at Jamaica Bus Term.,I took the Q8 to Euclid and hopped on the C train home.
On a sidenote not related to this:A couple of weeks ago when I did the Bee-Line Bus trip,which I posted what I did on a previous post, the one thing I forgot to mention was while on the 13 at Tarrytown before reaching the train station,I saw yet another MTA bus go in the opposite direction. I can't remember the bus number exactly but it was a 5200 series out of ENY depot in Brooklyn.Talk about a small world when before I saw it,I was thinking that I hadn't seen a MTA bus at all and then poof! there goes 52xx out of ENY.I wonder why it was around there anyway. It just amazes me that everytime,so far, that I've gone to Westchester,I've seen an MTA bus somewhere between White Plains and Tarrytown.Only exception is when I go to Cross County shopping center,havn't seen any on my way there...yet.
N6:308
N27:154
N21:646
N26:354
Q8:254....gee,54 was my lucky number yesterday,riding a bus with that number 3 out of 5 times.
What are those MCI's doing parked on the open upper level of Quill depot? Are they just waiting for return trips to Brooklyn or SI, Or are they based out of Quill?
After the AM rush hour many Staten Island and Brooklyn express buses layover at Quill during the day.
Wayne
What do the drivers do? Are they just doing one round trip a day?
They are on what is known as a "swing", where they essentially wait in the city until they are scheduled for their return trips. At MJQ, there is an ample crew room for them to pass their time.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
I know some MCI's are stored at MJQ for Yukon. Some MAY be there for Castleton and Ulmer Park.
MJQ uses RTS suburbans and Orions for their express routes.
30 Ulmer Park buses are parked on the roof of Michael Quill Depot between the AM and PM rush hours on weekdays. With the Winter Pick, starting January 26, there will be 55 UP buses on the roof.
The Operators have the option of going back to the depot (UP, Yukon, or Castleton); shuttles are provided for that purpose, with the shuttles being operated by Operators coming off/going to express trips.
David
When 100 street depot is completed will the m10 stay at Quill depot since Manhattanville will have opening?
Is it me but I've only notice these artic buses at 126 st 5511, 5517, and 5518. I saw 5519 on the m 86 with Quill depot on it. What up with that!!!! But at 126 st depot are there more or only these few artic?
And which series is leaving 126 st depot?
I have a question. Exactly how many of the 2003 New Flyer Artics are in Manhattan? Have you seen any others besides 5511, 5517, 5518, and 5519?
AT 126th Street Depot i was there this past monday saw only #5511, #5517-#5518 & #5520 but also saw #5519 & #5527 & #5528 on M86
DNJ
TCO/OP
Saw 5508 on the M23 on Saturday, January 4th, with Quill decals. That was the first time I saw a 5xxx series artic on that line. Usually only 1xxx.
[That was the first time I saw a 5xxx series artic on that line. Usually only 1xxx.]
When many of the older 5000 series artics that are now in the Bronx depots first came in, they were used on the M79 and M86 out of Quill (the M23 was not an artic route yet). Shortly thereafter, the Dept. of Buses moved all the 5000's out of Manhattan and into the Bronx.
Well, 5506-5509 were also used in 126th Street Depot for M15 service, and I saw one on the M35 as well!
Then, #5507 and 5508 were sent to the bronx, 5507 to KB, 5508 to GH...5506 and 5509 are still in Quill now...afaik...along with 1000-1071 and the new 5500s...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
from what i see here 5510,5511,5515,5517 and 5520 are at 126 st while 5519,5527 and 5528 are at mjq since about the first of the year and there have been no further deliveries. am i correct on this?
The only artics currently assigned to 126 are 5511, 5517, 5518 & 5520. According to a supervisor I spoke to, 126 will begin receiving new artics at the rate of 4 buses per week allegedly beginning this coming week. I'll keep the board posted.
Rode 5518 on the M15 yesterday. What a wonderful ride it was indeed. The M15 sure needs those buses on that line since all of the RTS are unbearable to ride on since they're all in the stepwell.
Can't wait to see more.
#5518 M15
Wasn't that bus at Gun Hill Depot?
That bus is currently operating out of Kingsbridge.
I heard that 5527 & 5528 is also in Manhattan. Of course, the whole order is not complete, give it some time.
Well are these buses for 126 street or are they going to be split because I saw 5519 on the M86 route with MJQ on it.
I don't know the exact fleet numbers of the 2003 Artics & where they are going, we'll just have to wait & see.
5510-5539 to Kingsbridge (Bx1, Bx2, Bx9, Bx36 and Bx41)
5540-56211 to 126th St (M15)
5622-5701 to 100th St (M86, M101, M102 and M103...M101 might stay at MV)
5702-5740 to Michael J. Quill (M14A or M14D, M23 and M79)
5741-5769 to Casey Stengel (Q44)
This is all on the BT archives. This could change as well.
Ray
Thanks. Oh, the Q44 might get artics, cool. But as you said, it could change so we'll just wait & see............
The assignment has changed, so what appeared on the BT archives is no longer valid. We have to wait and see.
What's the new assignment?
Ray
I heard that artics may be going to Flatbush (can not confrim this)
after all.
If true it will be the third time the TA changed their mind.
I would say forget what was posted in the past and wait and see what happens
Thank You
i wouldnt doubt this one bit. see how nyct has already changed the distribution. someone had listed 5515 at 126 but appears that was an error.
With the money crunch, etc the MTA should consider bringing back the "Batwings" to sell advertising space. Why did they stop doing it in the first place?
Would be cool to see an RTS or an Orion with Batwings.
Bat-wings or "Bus-O-Ramas" were restricted in the routes they could be run on. The could not be used under el-structures, for instance. This was one of the main reasons they were elimnated.
Peace,
ANDEE
Interesting, I wonder if that would still be the case - With CNG's all over the place (On the privates) in and out of Manhattan, Queens & Brooklyn, Those tanks on the top are higher than the busorama was.
It wasn't so much the height as the added width. They were most often damaged by sideswipes with the el pillars.
Peace,
ANDEE
I can see that ...
HAve a good one!
....and trees along curbs were a big enemy of Batwings.
My B/O Pop took off a Bat Wing once when he hit a tree on the M-15 .
Trees often damaged the batwings as well. Though that wasn’t the main reason why they were discontinued. I read here on BusTalk some time back that the advertising company who supplied the ads went out of business and the next supplier (TDI?) didn’t continue because of cost factors. At least that's what someone posted here on BusTalk some time back. Also, other cities such as Miami had used batwings and didn't have el structures to contend with. Perhaps falling coconuts were their culprits.......LOL.
THAT is the REAL reason....the company that started the "Batwings" thing was called Metro Transit Advertising. A friend out here in LA has postcards issued by them illustrating the Batwing concept.When TDI took over, they didn't want to assume the expense of makign new ones or even maintaining the old ones.
Not completely correct!
Routes operating under the el structures had batwings. Route 15, the Jackson Heights Line, used them all the time.
I recently acquired the old MaBSTOA "OA" round metal symbol. It came from a batwing bus. On the back you can still see the dirt stains of the fluted aluminum.
In Miami, the batwings were used on the GM and Flxible new looks. Never on the AM Generals. The sign curtain simply said "Route 11" etc. or Express; Orange Bowl; Charter
In NYC, the OA signs were the route, 15 Jackson Heights; 5 Fifth Ave. Riverside Drive, etc.
The TA signs were the actual destination, they matched the front signs: 44 to Main Street.
The "BATWINGS" of the 60's and 70's is now today's "WRAPS". They`re cheaper, quicker, and are real attention getters.
What about selling ad space on the roof of the bus - especially on the Manhattan routes? There's lots of people who look down on the bus from their offices during the day...
Chip
Until their bosses catch them! :-)
RTS, no, Orion, maybe (it has more of the stature of a new look-- straight, even though tapered sides). Still, there is not much space above the windows (on the new looks it was done by replacing or covering the standee windows).
On the Low Floor Orions, there is plenty of space above the windo, which to me looks a bit odd, so I was saying they should put wings on those.
The city just isn't the same without the old "wings". The cabs kept their counterpart to those, and newer ones even have iorange LED ads/messages (including sports scores) along with an LCD screen. It would be so cool to have new bus wings like that!
Some of Grey Line's double deckers (the ones with the open upper level) have the sticker ads on a fluted aluminum strip above the lower level windows, and this faintly resembles the old wings.
I've seen decals along the top edge of the windows on some of Olympias Neoplans. It's not as big as the Batwings, about half the size.
Peace,
ANDEE
The BATWINGS are synonomous with GM New Looks [except for Flxible 7753] however it would be cool to see an RTS & the Orions. I don't know if it would really work nowadays though.
In Los Angeles in the 70s, about an equal amount of GM and Flxible New Looks had batwings. I remember the GMs were 1963 TDH-5303s 5050-5099, I think the Flxibles were 1968 models 6130-6159 and 6200-6229. By 1979, they had pretty much been removed from both models.
They also had them on one of the 6000 series Flxibles...I think it was 6060.
Ah, never saw that one.
BTW did the 6000s ever operate out of any division other than Div. 9?
I moved to L. A. in 1976 so I missed the first 10 years of their lives.
You know what? I miss those Batwings. They were the quintessential New York City bus, and made them distinctive. I would have loved to see them on the Flixbles (I think the 7500 to 7900 buses were designed with them in mind), and on the 870's (631). I heard Kansas City had them on AM Generals. I would love to see a pic of those buses. Does anybody have any?
Does anyone remember that Eagle coach (or whatever that was) outfitted with both wings AND a rear window roof mounted A/C to look like a NYC fishbowl on the first Superman movie?
I don't remember that bus, but I do recall a European-type coach being passed off as a NYC transit bus in the Superman 2 movie.
JD
That's probably what I was talking about (assumed it was the first movie). It looked somewhat like an Eagle. (Eagle actually was a European design, originally from Kassbohrer Setra). If not an Eagle, then does anyone know what it was?
I've seen that bus in that movie. It had "Evita" ads on the wings which looked like the actual ads used on NYC buses.
From the Times Link
Bronx Puerto Rican Parade
Forty-two people were arrested during the fracas, which began when crowds spilled into the street from the sidewalk and began shaking a ***CITY BUS ***, the police said.
At about 9 p.m., the police were called to the intersections of Intervale and Westchester Avenues and 163rd and Tiffany Streets in Longwood, where several hundred people had gathered on the sidewalks and in the streets in a neighborhood of five- and six- story apartment buildings and small businesses.
The boisterous crowd was blocking traffic and enticing some motorists to honk their horns or wave Puerto Rican flags out the windows, the police said.
Jerks!
When did this happen?
Stupid,cockeyed Puerto Rican's! who the hell they think they are? There no better than the Dominacan's who think they're in thier home country and can do crap like that. What they do? gang up on an artic on the Bx4 or an OrionV on my home-route the Bx6? Now I know never to stick around there for too long anymore,crazy barbarian's!
Cool it with the racist crap! The source of this story hasn't even been documented.
Peace,
ANDEE
I ain't being racist!All I'm saying is that THEY gotta cut that kinda crap and act a little more mature.They're adult's man,not freaking 3 year old's.
>>>I ain't being racist!<<<
Uh yea. Keep telling yourself that. Could've fooled me.
Peace,
ANDEE
Whoa V Train, you have to calm down. They shouldn't be doing that shit in the first place I agree but leave the ethnic remarks out of it.
I am really taking offense to V Train B47 Bus's remarks...Normally, I'd just let stuff like that slide off my shouldrs, but, being of both the Puerto Rican and Domincan bloodline, this is where I draw the line..there's no room in the world for this crap. Now I'm stepping off my soapbox.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400365797&category=6728
OK-
We got a problem- where in the Blue Blazes did Busfan get to??
Anyone know?
I miss that characters krazy posts :(
Who knows? Who cares. Do you really miss him?
I was just looking at his posts in the Bustalk Archives(2002), and man, oh man some of those posts are funny. Go check them out.
Yes, I miss him...his posts were HILARIOUS.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
......Just had to correct the subject line.
I know his posts were funny & crazy. Guess he ran out of questions to ask 8-).
Impossible *L* That guy would ask the same question for two weeks straight.
I've been reading through some of the old Bustalk posts(archives) from 1999 & 2000 and I noticed some loser named "mike" who praised all the crappy hands-down and bashed the Novas in Fresh Pond. He said FP should get rid of the 9100's/9500's and get more hand-down 1983 RTS's because they were the best(hey Flatbush41, you should get a good laugh from this, heh, heh, heh). This loser was the reason I joined Bustalk. At first, I've been reading through Bustalk for about 3 months before I joined, but when I layed my eyes on this guy's posts, praising all those crappy hand-downs Fresh Pond got and always insulting my 9100's, that had pushed me too far! So I came in and bashed all of the of those crappy 3000's, 3300's, 4200's and praised my 9100's(don't worry, you're safe now :) ).
Luckily, this loser doesn't post here anymore, because if he did(and bashed the 9100's), I would've flamed his ass so badly I'd probably made him cry(LOL!). His precious 1983 RTS's are all dead(Hah, hah, hah). I'm representing FP the way it should be, the right way.
On a side note, I noticed in the 2000 Bustalk Archives, a lot of people were crying about the Queens Division always getting hand-downs(mainly from JA and QV), this was interesting. Now I would have too say this isn't really a problem in Queens anymore. This problem has moved to Brooklyn and somewhat Manhattan. And now we're crying about all these hand-downs(mainly UP, FP, and HP). Its strange how one borough is always treated unfairly...
You know how long Brooklyn had hand me downs, we got hit far worse than Queens did. You saw how 2/3 of the 1983 RTS was RETIRED IN Brooklyn.
Oh, don't worry Ridgewood, I'm going to read those posts, I need a good laugh LOL. What the hell was he thinking saying that FP deserved old buses, he's crazy.
I wouldn't call mike a loser. Old stuff=nostalgia! Additionally, I think he is trying to stimulate some passionate responses from the readership to his ideas!
I'm sorry Bill, normally I wouldn't insult someone like that, esp. a great place like BusTalk. I know people should have the freedom to voice their opinion, however constantly bashing the 9100's/9500's in half the posts he made is going too far!!! I could not hold back(even if I was tied down with chains), I had to reverse the bad look he gave for the 9100's. I entered Bustalk like the Tazmanian Devil(hah, hah, I miss that cartoon, you use to see him with Bugs Bunny), ripping the image of the FP hand-downs in half(take that 3000's).
Sometimes I go too far with my anti-hand-down posts, but only when people say it isn't as you bad as you think, yeah getting old hands down for 4 years straight, its not that bad(sarcasm). That's when I must prove every other place has it better(blah, blah, blah, and the arguements begin). Anyway, I'm just blurting out my crap again, so I'll stop. I just wish FP would get treated a little better. Looking at the same thing over and over again is tiring.
...a lot of people were crying about the Queens Division always getting hand-downs... Now I would have too say this isn't really a problem in Queens anymore..."
Yeah, now Queens gets old Staten Island express coaches to use on high-volume local routes. No problem at all.
You mean the Orions? Its not as bad compared to what Brooklyn gets dumped with.
Yeah, Queens got it better but see in Brooklyn, the majority of the hand me downs over the years are GM's and early TMC's but we did have newer buses too that came from other depots. At least they got suburbans, we got stuck with old, slow buses.
When you say alot of people were crying about the Queens hand-me-downs in the 2000 archives, I would assume you were talking about Q5Merrick, Brooklyn67 and myself. We had good reason to "cry" about those buses. I'll admit, it's gotten alot better for Queens, however nobody has gotten many hand me downs period over the last 2 years, including Brooklyn since there has not been many new local buses coming into the system lately. When the new Hybrids start coming into the system, along with the other Artics and Low Floors for Gleason, things should get alot better overall for Brooklyn, including Fresh Pond depot. And the second any bus changes do occur at F.P., I'll be able to report it on bustalk almost immediately.
BIG AL
When you start at Fresh Pond Depot, I'll be there waiting.
Why does that worry me?
BIG AL
Will you be gracing the door step of my coach today?
Regard,
Trevor Logan
No,not today.And seeing that it's gonna remain cold like crazy for the next several day's,I won't be going anywhere untill it get's into the mid 30's at least.I was hoping to grace your bus with my presense on Saturday with your trip on the 11C to the GWB from Nanuet Mall at 4:20p but again,it's gonna be way to cold for my liking.How bout next Saturday,1/25/03? Hopefully by then we won't be feeling like we're close to the North Pole.
This is yesterday's news.....literally!
A wall collapsed on the Grand Central Pkwy underneath Parsons Blvd in Hillcrest, Queens. I use to live 5 minutes from there. This will slightly affect the Q46 deadheading back to Kew Gardens in the evening rush hour. I saw a Q46 bus sitting on the GCP while Newscopter 7 and Chopper 4 was over the GCP. BTW, this is the Q46 to Springfield Blvd if anybody did not know. Are there any street closures?
Ray
The service road overhangs on that section of the GCP. I wonder if the above roadway came down or just the retaining wall. I haven't heard of any road closures on the traffic reports today. I will search to see if there are any news items on this subject.
Most of you know that 4629 of ENY has rounded back doors. My question is was this done because the original doors needed replaced, a pilot for the 1990/1991 TMC's or was it for something else? All info is appreciated. Thanx.
OK... This morning at approx. 10:30 AM I was driving S/B on Georgia Ave when I spotted #5316 heading N/B at the DC/MD border (Georgia & Eastern Av/Blair Rd). The bright orange destination sign displayed "DRIVER" "TRAINING" and a few WMATA employees were on-board. I can't wait to finally ride one of them.
Wayne
Did you get to hear the engine, if you did what did it sound like.
Yes, but I didn't hear it too well since there was a loud truck there too. From what I heard... it sounds quite similar to the Westchester Bee-Line AN-460 which I understand to have the DD Series 60. Had I not been running a bit late... I definitely would've taken a U-turn and went after it.
Wayne
Today NJ Transit unveild the new AN-460 Artics from Neoplan. As per NJT, the original order is for 85 buses (49 Transit Style and 36 Suburban Style) with a option to purchase 70 more buses.
This buses shown today was Bus #9503 unlike its counterpart #9501 which was displayed at the 2002 APTA Expo. This is still considered a prototype, in which this bus will return to the Neoplan USA Honey Brook Facility in PA and will recieve modifications as per NJT's wishes.
Below is a link the NJT Neoplan Gallery at TransiTALK which has photos from today and from the APTA Expo.
Click Here
Enjoy
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitlak.org
Trevor, nice photos. Thanks for getting them up so quickly.
I like that paint scheme, and can't wait to see more of those buses arriving and going into use later this year.
At least NJT gives the customer a nice seat to sit on. MTA riders would love to have seats like that instead of a small piece of cloth
So would MTA vandals.
Trevor,
Nice pics as usual. One question....what engine do these buses have? is the engine simliar to the Westchester Neoplan Buses? On more question...is the series going to be from #9501-9585? Again, cool pics!
Ray
I've heard these busses will have CAT engines, but you can ask Trevor on the specific specs.
[is the series going to be from #9501-9585?]
I don't pretend to know the answer, but if history is any guidance, the transit and suburban models are likely to be in different numbered series (like the 9100 and 9200 Volvo artics).
9 liter Caterpillar C-9s, generating 330 HP.
Peace,
ANDEE
One question: Why are there only a speedometer and a air pressure gauge? No fuel, battery or engine temp?
Can somebody tell me what's wrong with this link? I click it and it seems like it don't have the new pics up and I did reload the page but it came up with the same thing. What's wrong???
Your computer cookied the pre-updated Neoplan page, clear your cookies on your computer then load it up!
Trevor
I guess when Fairview gets theirs I'll have to use one on my run.
Troy
What was the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Authority? Was it the company that provided bus service to Manhattan and the Bronx before the MTA took over the service? If so, who provided service to the other boroughs?
MaBSTOA was the agency formed when New York City took over the private bus companies in Manhattan and the Bronx, ie: Fifth Avenue Coach, Surface Transit, and New York City Omnibus, in 1962.
It was a seperate division of NYCTA. Why? Because of labor contracts, and the way the private companies were taken over. Both agencies were operated independently of each other, transfers were not accepted,, etc. Equipment was bought seperately, etc.
The Idea was to combine both the TA and OA after several years. When the MTA was formed, both began to operate jointly.
[MaBSTOA was the agency formed when New York City took over the private bus companies in Manhattan and the Bronx, ie: Fifth Avenue Coach, Surface Transit, and New York City Omnibus, in 1962. ]
"The history of buses in Manhattan" mentioned in Hart Bus's post is not very clear on this, but my recollection is that New York City Omnibus ceased to exist, at least as the name put on the buses, around 1956. From 1956 to 1962 all of the former NYC Omnibus buses were labeled Fifth Avenue Coach Company. Thus, the bus routes MABSTOA took over in 1962 were those of Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transit.
[It was a seperate division of NYCTA. Why? Because of labor contracts....]
The labor reason was simple: the new agency had to be kept separate because the vast majority of Fifth Avenue Coach's employees were NOT eligible for civil service jobs - because they were illegal immigrants (from Ireland).
The basic reason for forming MABSTOA as a seperate agency was to get around the civil servic reulations and the lower costs.
While for many years the salary for both the TA and the OA was the same the beneifts that the OA driver received were not as good as the TA drivers.
The medical benefits were different
Sick leave was different
MABSTOA drivers were not allowed to use TA buses and subways(it was mostly ignored however)
MABSTOA drivers spouses also received a pass.
Different work rules which still are in effect in picking and hawk operation.
Basically the TA and the OA were kept seperate until the mid 1980's when slowly changes were seen.
1-No more OA name on buses
2-Switching of TA lines and OA lines(started in 1995)
3-Management positions were interminged.
4-Centeral maintance was more interminged. It should be known that the TA did heavy mainatnce for the OA since the take over in 1962.
BTW-126th Street Depot was at one time a OA depot when it was taken over in 1962 from Surfice Transit. It became a TA depot a year later.
Thank You
[BTW-126th Street Depot was at one time a OA depot when it was taken over in 1962 from Surfice Transit. It became a TA depot a year later.]
I don't believe that is true, but I'm not 100% certain. Clearly, the M-15 and the other TA (not OA) Manhattan routes had a bus depot in Manhattan. If it was not 126th Street prior to 1962, which depot was it?
If you search this site, there is an excellent 4 page paper entitled "the history of buses in Manhattan". Check it out. It will answer many of your questions.
To answer this and other posters about this question:
First, it is not true that the vast majority of the MABSTOA drivers were illegal immigrants from Ireland. It is true that most of the drivers were indeed of Irish ancestry (born in Ireland or born in the US to Irish parents) - and they formed the nucleus of the original Transport Workers Union in the 1930's under Mike Quill's leadership.
With regard to the what routes and what companies became MABSTOA, prior to March 1962, below is a snapshot of bus transit in the Bronx and Manhattan at that time. Many route numbers were duplicated; in the case of #15, 3 times!
Manhattan:
5 NYC Transit Authority routes that operated out of 2 small depots on E 100th and E 108th Streets:
M1 (today's M22) Madison St.
M3 (today's M50) 49/50th Sts
M7 (today's M66) 65/66th Sts
M11 (part of today's M31) York Ave.
M15 1st/2nd Aves.
These routes became NYC property in 1948 when the old Comprehensive and East Side Omnibus Companies were dissolved.
5th Ave. Coach FACO Divison routes (operated from 132d St. Depot except for #15/#16):
1 5th Ave. (only one franchise trip daily)
2 5th/7th Aves. (today's M2)
3 5th/St. Nicholas or Convent (today's M3)
4 5th/Fort Washington (today's M4)
5 5th/Riverside Dr./Broadway (today's M5)
6 72d St. Xtown (today's M30)
15 5th/Jackson Heights (today's Q32)
16 Elmhurst (Queens) Xtown (abandoned about 15 years ago)
19 5th/Riverside (rush only)
20 57th St. Xtown (part of today's M31/M57)
5th Ave. Coach NYCO Division routes (operated from garages on E 12th St., 54th/9th Ave., 100th/Lexington, 146th/Lenox). Today's route # is in ( ).
1 Madison Av (M1)
2 Madison/Lenox Av (M102)
5 6th Ave. (M6)
6 Broadway (M6)
7 Broadway/Columbus Lenox (M7)
10 8th Ave./Central Pk W (M10 and M20)
11 9th & Amsterdam (M11)
12 Spring/Delancey Xtown (abandoned later)
13 8th St Xtown (M8)
14 14th St Xtown (M14)
15 23d St Xtown) (M23)
16 34th Xtown (M16 and M34)
17 79th Xtown (M79)
18 86th Xtown (M86)
19 96th Xtown (M96)
20 116h Xtown (M116)
21 Houston/Ave C (M21)
22 Pitt/Ridge Sts (later abandoned)
TB Triboro Bridge (M35)
Surface Transit (ex-Third Ave. Railway):
M100 Broadway Kingsbridge
M101 Third-Lexington/125th/Amsterdam
M103 59th Xtown (now merged into M57)
M104 Broadway/42d St
M106 42d St Xtown (M42)
Surface Transit also controlled all Bronx bus routes except the Q44, which was of course NYCTA even then. The QBX1 did not exist in 1962.
All of the routes listed above, with the exception of the five Manhattan division TA routes, became MABSTOA routes in March 1962.
Andy,
The #2 Madison/Lenox Avenue route is not todays M-102 route. The M-102 was originally the #4-Lexington/Lenox Avenue route which remained after 3rd and Lexington Avenues became one way and the M-101 took over the #3 Lexington Avenue route .
BTW the M-101 was operated by both Surfice Transit and 5th Ave Coach. Trips to Fort George came from Surfice TRansit and were operated by Macks while short trips were operated by GMC's from 5th Ave Coaches 100th Street depot. These buses were marked "Surfice Transit Inc."
With the creation of MABSTOA THE #4 route was redesigneted the M-101A and it was renumbered the M-102 in 1974.
The #2 Madison-Lenox route was merged into the M-1 when 5th and Madison Avenues became one way
Thank You
Barry:
You are right about the M101 being jointly operated by 5th Ave. and Surface after July 1960 when 3rd and Lexington became one way streets. You're also right that the M102 is the descendant of the old NYCO #4 Lexington/Lenox route.
However, the #4 Lex-Lenox did not remain after 3rd and Lex became one way. It and the #3 were eliminated and the #2 Madison route was rerouted via 116th St and Lenox to cover the old #4 route. This route remained as #2 when Fifth and Madison Aves. became one way in Jan. 1966; the FACO #2 5th/7th Aves. became #2A at that time. In March 1969 the #2 was eliminated and shifted to a Third/Lexington/116th/Lenox routing designated as M101A, basically a return to the old NYCO #4 route. As you correctly note in 1974 it was redesignated M102 (and the 2A redesignated as M2) when TA/MABSTOA eliminiated duplicate route#s and A suffixes on all Manhattan bus routes.
Hope this clears it all up. I remember it all well! And hope you are well (in Florida?). Thanks.
Andy,
I am back in New York. Please e mail me your phone number at BarryLv11510 @yahoo.com
Thanks
PS-Thanks for the information on the M-102
Andy,
Out of curiosity? Do you know anything more about the 5th Av Coach Rte # 16:Elmhurst Xtown? What roads did go along and where was its terminals? And why was it eliminated
The 16(Q89)operated out of the FFS(Fifty Fourth Street)Depot after FACO and Surface were merged to MaBSTOA.It ran from Grand Avenue/Queens Bl. to 82nd St/Northern Bl.along Bwdy(Queens)to Baxter Ave(by Elmhurst Hospital)to 82nd Street.It had a headway of 40 minutes to entire lenghth of its scheduled day.It was eliminated due to low ridership and in my opinion at least the Q29 almost ran the exact same route from Queens Bl to Roosevelt Ave at a shorter headway.(though a few blocks over )
Yes, good answer. Just to add a couple of things:
The #15(Q32) and #16(Q89) began running in July 1925 when 5th Ave. Coach obtained franchises for both routes. The 15 was considered a "plum" route because it connected a new community of upsale "garden" apartments (Jackson Heights) directly to Mid-Manhattan. The #16 was established as a feeder to the #15, nothing more. Free transfers between the two were provided at 82d St. and Roosevelt Ave. 5th Ave. Coach constructed a garage at 76th St. and Northern Blvd. (today the site of a bank) to house buses for both routes. From the 1930s till the early fifties, Queen Mary double deckers covered #15 trips while small 30' or 35' single deck Yellows (GM) covered the #16.
I don't know what the #16 headway was in the pre-1960s period, but you are right that it had a 40 minute headway for many years prior to its demise. #16 was a case where the poor service drove away the few potential customers, plus its lack of transfers after 1962 to any other route made the route pretty useless as well.
You are right about the x-fer being it was MaBSTOA you couldn't x-fer to the Q(B)58 or Q(B)59 at Queens Bl/Grand Av/Bdwy or the Q60(which wouldn't x-fer to nothing except at Sutphin/Archer and for some strange reason buses that ran in the Rockaways.
Well as recording to my old Queens Bus Map(1980). The Q89 was still running at 1980.
And here's a interesting thing I fround in the 1980 Queens Bus Map.
The Q42,Q44FS,Q44VP,Q75 Lines had weekend service but I wounder what happin to the weekend service on those lines? I know the Q44VP(Now Q74) was still haveing weekend service back in the late 1980's til around Early 1990's and did rode it once on a weekend and the ridership is good.
Weekend service was cut on those lines due to budget cuts in the late 80's /early 90's
I think the Q74 Weekend Service should make a COMEBACK!
As Andy had mentioned in this thread, the Q89 ran until sometime into the 1980's. I remember seeing OA RTS #2222 on that route during the early 80's.
I got my old job back in Brooklyn, which means i can go back riding UP buses to work. I observed mostly NOVABUS models running. Passed by UP garage and did see 3 buses inside with no lables and looking like the body was falling apart. Are these scrap models?
B1-#9303-NOVABUS
B3-#4497-RTS
B64-#9086-NOVABUS
also saw #7515 and #7524 in the back garage oos.
I noticed today an old junker running north on 6th Avenue at 34th Street, an MV bus 3960 or something like that, with the old Blitz font style numbers, and the full black paint in the pork chop side rear panels. Is this the only one left in what I recall to be the original paint scheme and numbering and why bother putting "quality control" stickers on a bus worthy of a tow to NIMCO?
I believe 4163 out of HUD still has the black pork chop in the rear.
However, it has the new font.
And #4159 in HP depot...I have photos of 4159 and 3906 (recent photo)...4163 is like that, too...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
3960 has the white porkchop panel in the rear.
Add 4158 to that list with black porkchop panels as well.
If I'm not mistaking 4159's is white.
#4165 Q32
Bus 3906 is the bus you saw with the black "porkchop" side panel. There are still a few odd balls left. Jamaica's 4214, 4215 (both ex-KB buses), 4352 and 4559 also managed to avoid the white paint on their porkchops. They all, however, sport the new font and MTA logos.
Mark
4120 never had the new logo [only on the back] & never recieved the white on the pork chop as well before it went to storage.
There's a 6000-series Orion (6119, IIRC) with the old-style numbering, and an 8000-series RTS floating around out there.
eBay Item Numbers 2153475543, 2153476497, 2153477672, 2153478222, 2153478772, 2153479280, 2153479576, 2153480092 and 2153480485. Includes Hino and Orion I demonstrators, MSBA articulated, Surface Transit , Westchester Surface Macks and Washington DC buses operating in New York City in the 1980s.
It seems the # of posts a day in SubTalk outnumber Bustalk's by at least 10 to 1! Yeah, I know there hasn't been any great changes lately in the bus world, *coughFreshPondcough*, but it seems everyone is more interested in Subways. Subtalk does at least 600 posts a day. Bustalk can barely do 80. Come on Bustalkers we needs to make this board come alive. This is the reason I refuse to go on the Chats, because its Subtalk dominated.
Face it, trains are more popular than buses. That's the way it is.
Peace,
ANDEE
There's a lot of garbage posted on SubTalk. I like BusTalk better - more straightforward transit talk.
JD
Yeah, I like Bustalk better. My interest in buses is 70%, and for subway is 30%
Well that may be all well and true.
But truth be told, OUR drama level in 110% below then Subtalks, which is a positive thing. Too many arguments, too many "little kids" (That's not literal, read into that comment).
Bustalk is pretty peaceful, we have decent debates, would could ask for anything more?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
[Bustalk is pretty peaceful, we have decent debates, would could ask for anything more?]
I agree.
I am both a bus fan and a train fan, but I rarely visit SubTalk because the volume of posts is just too unmanageable. I find the volume of posts in BusTalk quite acceptable.
Yeah, the good thing with Bustalk is that its easy to keep up with all the posts if you visit it once a day.
We chat and exchange comments in peace and I want it to stay that way.
Troy
I agree with you Ridgewood but this is a predominant subway website so that's how it is. On Subtalk though, there are a WHOLE LOT OF off topic posts there so that inflates the messages displayed count. Well if you want Bustalk to come alive again, we gotta find more topics that people would be interested in.
Subtalk has a shit load of off-topic posts that fills up half the nearly half board. As a reader, it's almost impossible to catch up with all posts there. Sometimes I lose interest looking for a good post in Subtalk because they have nothing to do with transit. Bustalk is much more organized than SubTalk will ever be.
That's true, I usually don't even read half the posts there b/c so many of them drift off topic. I'm into both buses & subways but I like the buses slightly more than the trains; 60% bus/40% subway. Here at Bustalk, mostly everything is on topic and is peaceful and we know how Subtalk is, its cool but the OT posts takes away from it.
Quite true. I find it startling how vastly different both boards are now.
Neoplan recently announced an order by the MBTA for 350 diesel buses to be delivered in 2004 and 2005. Sounds like Neoplan is making huge inroads into the Northeast market over the past few years with orders for SEPTA, NJT, Westchester, MBTA, WMATA, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. That's not even including the recent deliveries to San Francisco MUNI over the last couple of years.
Hallelujah! At long last, large transit properties are growing out of the outdated 1980s legend that Neoplans are inferior buses. Things change! Today, I'd venture to say that Neoplan makes some of the most solid buses in the industry. Seriously - SEPTA, Muni, and Westchester have had virtually no problems with their newer Neos. It's still too early to say for WMATA and MdMTA, but things seem to be going swimmingly in Washington. I have my fingers crossed for another order of AN-460-As for WMATA - maybe some 40-footers too!
About MBTA, please confirm that these are indeed Neoplans and that you are not confusing the soon-to-arrive NABI order. More details would be appreciated...
Well, WMATA's AN460s are still in the testing stages, and Baltimore MTAs still hasn't arrived yet, but are supposed to be arriving soon.
Also WMATA still has yet name the order for its next CNG order, due to arrive in 2004, so Neoplan might be in the running. I would love it if WMATA would have either bought more artics, or buy more artics in the near future, they REALLY need them.
I do look forward to riding those beasts, the last time riding the Neoplans were the soon to be doomed ones, in the early 80s.
I also saw the news item about Neoplan building 350 buses for Boston, and it doesn't make sense. As far as I know, Neoplan has two separate orders to build a total of 279 vehicles for MBTA:
First order (to be delivered 2003-2004)-
28 trackless trolleys
44 low-floor 60 ft. CNG articulated buses
32 low-floor 60 ft. dual-mode articulated buses (for the Silver Line)
Second order (to be delivered 2005-2006)-
140 low-floor 40 ft. diesel buses
35 low-floor 35 ft. diesel buses
Perhaps Neoplan has a 175 bus option on the 2005-06 order. However, the TMC/Nova RTS buses from 1994-96 are just now receiving their mid-life overhauls, and will not need to be replaced until 2007 or 2008.
If anyone has more info on this order, please let us know.
Jim D.
The 350 Neoplans will replace the remaining 8700-8900 RTS buses still in service and are due to arrive in 2004; the 200 NABI CNG buses will replace the 8400-8600 series RTS buses. These are in fact two separate orders. The 199 NABI 40LFW CNG buses are due to start arriving later this year.
That's right, it's me, starting 1/26. I'll be working the 4pm - 12am shift Sun-Thurs. If anybody has any problems with the type of buses running on the lines, (coughDaRidgewoodBusBuffcough), talk to me and I'll be glad to set the record straight. I will try to get only the very best buses out on Sundays, no guarantees.
Looking forward to hearing from you critics out there.
BIG AL
OMG, Big Al, you might finally get to see me in person. If you do see me, I have my own way of pronouncing the bus #'s.
4600's Series-Me: Four Six's or 4-6's
4700's Series- Me: Four Seven's or 4-7's
8000's Series- Me: Eight O's or 8-0's
9100's Series- Me: Nine ones or 9-1's
4738- Me: Four-Seven-Three-Eight
8016- Me: Eight-O-One-Six
9160- Me: Nine-One-Six-O
9600- Me: Nine-Six Hundred
3997- Me: $#@&%!
Usually on Friday's, I lurk in Palmetto St./Wyckoff/Myrtle or on the entrance slope of the Fresh Pond Road (M) Station(right across from the bar). From there I stare at every single bus that goes in and out(sometimes I smoke a cig and drink a 20 oz Pepsi Blue). As for my appearance, I'm not going to say anything yet.....
I'll be off on Friday's and Saturdays, one of the reasons I picked that trick actually. I always wanted those two days off during the week and for some reason, that is the only 2 day combination I never had the whole 9 years I've been with transit now.
BIG AL
Good choice of days off. That's what I have. They're my favorite days off. I don't mind working on Sundays. It's usually pretty slow.
Best of luck with the Yard Dispatcher job at FP. When I was at FP in '91 the Yard Dispatcher was a nice old guy who let you pick what bus you wanted. If you had to move buses to get the one you wanted it was okay with him. Lol! I've never had that experience again!
Congratulations! 3900s on the Q58 would be much appreciated :^)
Looking forward to see you Big AL when i come to Fresh Pond Depot to assignment with B/O but the problem is that i work AM-Midday Shift. BTW Corgratulation Big AL.
DNJ
TCO/OP
No more Rockaway and Hegeman? Good luck on your new job!!!
I have student aide (staff aide) on A-days and there's this girl that's from New york, Puerto Rican/Black mix. Pretty cute and she's got the HEAVY ACCENT. Anyway, she's from Staten Island and she said that buses in NYC don't have letters in front. She said they are "just numbahs." She says in SI the buses are like in the 40's and in Brooklyn they are 1xx and up. I was dumbfounded as I knew she was wrong and she was just in NYC TWO WEEKS AGO. She was getting hostile when I told her that the bus routes have a prefix that identifies the borough so I let it go. She says the subways are the ones with "lettahs." I was like okay. You don't want to argue with girls anyway, and being from NYC can only make it worse. She also said people aren't friendly up there either.
NOT TRUE! I'll tell you firsthand NY'ers are tough but are 'friendly' and people saying were mean is a common misconception, more people than not are nice here in NYC. As for route numbers, they DO have a letter in front of the route #. B is Brooklyn, M is Manhattan, Q is Queens, Bx is Bronx, S is Staten Island and X is express buses. Staten Island is the only borough that does start in the 40's [S40 to be exact] but EVERY OTHER BOROUGH starts from 1, with gaps of course. The only borough that has triple digit route #'s is in Manhattan. She really doesn't know what the hell she is talking about :-\.
The subways have letters AND numbers and is broken into two divisions, the IND/BMT (B Division) [A,B,C,D,E,F,G,J,L,M,N,Q,R,S,V,V,W,Z] is the div. with the letters and the IRT (A Division) [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9] is the one with the numbers.
I tried to tell her about the Borough letters, but her response was, "Dude, I am from there-yah, and I just visited two weeks ago!" Oakily-dokily-daddily-doo. She said she rode the buses all the time, but how did she not get lost?! I guess she got the whole Brooklyn buses are 1xx is from the B100 and B103. But how can she not see the B plain as day and she had a friggin' bus stop right outside the school she says. Well, I plan to visit NYC someday soon, so I hope all goes well.
I guess she knows her way around the city; she probably doesn't look or pay attention to the perfix. Oh BTW, the B100 & B103 is not operated by NYCT, it is operated by Command Bus company, the NYCT route #'s go up to the B83 in Brooklyn.
Yeah, I was going to mention they were operated by Command, but I forgot too. Thanks for clarifying that.
No problem.
"The only borough that has triple digit route #'s is in Manhattan."
Are you just talking about buses operated by NYCMTA only or all buses (including NYCDOT)? IF we are talking about all bus routes operated in the five boroughs, then your statement is incorrect.
Both Brooklyn and Queens have three digit routes. Brooklyn has B100 and B103 and Queens has Q101 thru Q104 and Q110 thru Q113.
I'm talking about NYCT routes.
Okay.
Hey...New Yorkers are some of the best people I have dealt with. Some of my best (and friendliest) busfans and customers hail from the boroughs, and are a pleasure to have around. NYC is basically a friendly place IMO, and became especially more so after 9/11.
-F.
The only thing I can tell you about your friend is either she is not from NY or she is incredibly blind. All routes operated by MTA and NYCDOT have had lettered prefixes for nearly 30 years. By her being from Staten Island, in which 90% of the buses operated there are either Orion Vs or MCI D4500 which have some of the largest LED signs in the bus transportation industry, I can't see how she could miss that great big "S" or "X" in front of the number.
The list of the prefixes used in this area are as follows:
B-Brooklyn
BM-Brooklyn Manhattan; used by NYCDOT express routes only
Bx-Bronx
BxM-Bronx Manhattan; used by NYCDOT express routes only
M-Manhattan
N-Nassau County
S-Staten Island
Q-Queens
QM-Queens Manhattan; used by NYCDOT express routes only
X-Express; used by all MTA express routes only
If you still have doubt then visit "www.transitalk.org/menu.html".
Once you are on the website, go into image showroom and search for NYCTA Dept of Buses and there is your proof. In fact, if use choose Orion V or MCI D4500s from the equipment menu, you will see tons of pictures of bus operations in Staten Island.
She probably missed that giant "S" on the LED destination sign, the same way people miss the "Limited" signs that some drivers go out of their way to post all over the front and sides of the bus, only to get mad when their stop is passed or when the driver announces the bus is limited in English and (sometimes) Spanish.
Lesson Number One:
Women don't know DOO-DOO about buses, trains, etc. Those are MEN THINGS.
Lesson Number Two:
Never argue with a woman. No matter how wrong she is. You will ALWAYS come out second. Maybe not to your face, but behind your back....they will tell all their friends how "wrong" you are though THEY are totally off the beam.
>>"Women don't know DOO-DOO about buses, trains, etc. Those are MEN THINGS."<<
Wonder what V Train B47 Bus will say when/if she sees this ;-)......
As for lesson #2, I agree with that, I'm sure RTS 2150 got the picture.
"Women don't know Doo-Doo about buses train, etc. Thse are MENS THINGS.
I REALLY hope those females from Subtalk come here and start an arguement over here after reading that. Making a whole bunch of pointless topics that have nothing to do with buses.
Face it, if some of you told a girl you were interested in buses or trains, they'd think you were crazy. It's sad, but it's true. And that's okay, no one can force them to have to have the same interests as us, its up to them. That why the number of males here(including me) will always dominate this board.
Never argue with a woman
LOL!! That is so true. Arguing with them will get guys nowhere(hah hah hah). Just put in earplugs you you don't have to hear them :)
"Women don't know Doo-Doo about buses train, etc. Thse are MENS THINGS".
I REALLY hope those females from Subtalk DON'T come here and start an arguement over here after reading that. Making a whole bunch of pointless topics that have nothing to do with buses.
Face it, if some of you told a girl you were interested in buses or trains, they'd think you were crazy. It's sad, but it's true. And that's okay, no one can force them to have to have the same interests as us, its up to them. That why the number of males here(including me) will always dominate this board.
"Never argue with a woman"
LOL!! That is so true. Arguing with them will get guys nowhere(hah hah hah). Just put in earplugs you you don't have to hear them :)
>>"I REALLY hope those females from Subtalk DON'T come here and start an arguement over here after reading that."<<
And we all know who could and would jump all over him. To some females, telling them you're into the transit would really turn them off from you [lets say you were macking it to them] so that's why its our hidden hobby and this board will be dominated with men.
To some females, telling them you're into the transit would really turn them off from you
Ahh yes. My former girlfriend was a rarity. She loved the subway! She could spend a 1/2 hour with me at a station like let's say 33rd Street, and was so interested about the various different eras tilework, and history of the line, etc. Of course she didn't know different train classes, etc, but at least she tried to understand the subway, and liked riding. (at least for transportation - I never dragged her on railfan trips). Our break-up had nothing to do with trains or the subway.
I just started dating someone else. She's a lot of fun, and I like her a lot. She has no idea I "love" the subway or trains yet. The other night we were at dinner, and I casually brought up the subway (In the context of traveling around the city). She said, "Wow, I'm scared of the subway."
I didn't say a word further about it. I just thought to myself, "That figures."
......Wow, something's gonna have to change. (and it ain't going to be MY love of trains).
Yeah...not a lot of women get off on buses. I usually maintian it as a "closet interest" and barely mention it to whom I am dating, but my latest girlfriend is a car nut and is getting into buses. And she supports my interest as she knows it is a part of me. :)
-F.
Yeah the only thing mechanical women like are little red cars. :-)
I just wish I had a little honey for myself, last one I asked out said she already had someone, but she was flirting with me. If only we could rub this other guy out.....
(and suprise, she wasn't the last bit "mystical")
How ironic; I am dating a girl with a little red Mustang...1966, to be exact. :)
Yeah, women sure are hard to find these days...in fact, they inspired me to write a cartoon humor book, "Women Are Like Buses". For example:
....Another one comes along every 15 minutes.
....they just don't make 'em like they used to.
....if you don't have the right kind of money, they'll leave you at the curb.
I'll tell you more as it develops...it explains a whole lot that many can agree with!
-F.
You must be married.
BIG AL
Yup, you got it. The big noose around the neck....
I was lucky enough to find a woman who doesn't mind our unique hobby. She doesn't understand it, of course, and I doubt she brags to her girlfriends that her husband chases buses and trains. But she's never given me a hard time about my interests, and she's gotten used to the fact that a visit to any city always includes a trip to the bus or train station to pick up maps and schedules!
JD
But she's never given me a hard time about my interests, and she's gotten used to the fact that a visit to any city always includes a trip to the bus or train station to pick up maps and schedules!
LOL!!!
But what? Doesn't everyone do that when they are on vacation in a different city?
Oh, that's right, I'm thinking like a railfan.....
"I was lucky enough to find a woman who doesn't mind our unique hobby. She doesn't understand it, of course, and I doubt she brags to her girlfriends that her husband chases buses and trains."
That's because chasing trains and buses isn't a threat to her. It could be worse, you could be another guy chasing skirts and that would be trouble to her. Buses and trains ?....no threat there !
Bill "Newkirk"
The first part is a generalization; not all women are neophites to buses and transit. I happen to know women who drive for TAs that know about buses and can recall the good old days when Flxible New Looks roamed the land just as well as I can. However, the latter is true; don't ever argue with a woman. Hormones can be a killer!
-F.
New York girls....oy. I'll never get married here. *_*
1. Lay people don't use prefixes to refer to buses in their own borough.
2. Staten Island buses are zoned:
S40s--North Shore
S50s--random
S60s--Victory Boulevard trunk routes
S70s--random
S80s--Limiteds
S90s--Limiteds
This woman is probably a North Shore resident and is sandwiched by the S40, S44, S46, and S48. She probably travels to Manhattan, hence the 1xx designations.
Us BusTalkers must realize that the general public refers to buses differently than we do.
For the S70s, I call them the long distance routes; but they are the South Shore routes.
You're right, the general public don't think like us Bustalkers when it comes to specifics on buses.
I still don't understand how she missed the letter prefix though, whether she acknowledges it or not.
I still don't understand how she missed the letter prefix though, whether she acknowledges it or not.
Good thing she doesn't live in Washington D.C.!
JD
LOL
Yeah boy...women are no fun to have an argument with. My girlfriend recently accused me of cutting my own hair; all I did was simply comb it another way from usual, and she didn't like it at all. She thinks I look like a Beatle and that I hacked off my own bangs with her scissors, when all I did was use them to clip my toenails. After turning blue in the face explaining to her that I did NOT clip any hair off, she still wouldn't budge, so I just let it go.
Some things are important to us, and petty to women, and vice versa. You know your buses, and apparently she doesn't. Just let it slide, Clyde. It's just not worth the wasted time to argue.
-F.
Were the 7450-77xx TNJ/NJT Flxibles true suburbans, or were they glorified transit buses? I remember that they did not have the underfloor luggage space most suburbans usuallly had, like the GM suburbans.
The NJDOT* Flxible suburbans were true suburbans they had raised floors and parcel racks. I rode on lots of them.
*all New Look Flxibles in NJ were purchased by the NJDOT.
Peace,
ANDEE
MEMORANDUM
To: Buses on the WRP AWOL List
From: WRP Staff
Subject: You need to report
To whom it may concern:
The WRP Staff would like to track you down and figure out which division you are running from. As a result, you are AWOL. Please find a WRP staff member with a correctly set run box as soon as possible.
Thanks, in advance!
Sincerely,
WRP Staff
(enclousures)
WRP "AWOL List"
Unit by Unit AWOL List
A bus listed that is not in a division on the WRP is on this list
2000-2099 : 2008-2013, 2021-2026, 2062-2063, 2070-2074, 2076-2077, 2079-2084
2100-2231 : 2100-2102, 2114, 2147-2148, 2150-2156, 2162, 2220-2231
2300-2463 : All accounted for
3701-3742 : All accounted for
3900-3950 : 3908, 3912-3915, 3917-3921, 3941-3949
3951-3954 : All accounted for
4001-4104 : 4008, 4045-4049, 4058-4059
4200-4412 : 4225-4231, 4233, 4243, 4287-4290, 4321-4325, 4360-4367, 4369, 4380, 4386-4387
5000-5043 : All Retired
5080-5099 : All Retired
5101-5133 : Being Retired
5151-5185 : 5177-5185
5201-5245 : 5237-5239, 5241-5245
5301-5321 : Being Delivered
8700-8774 : 8700-8705, 8707-8708, 8711-8728, 8730-8740, 8742-8749, 8751-8871, 8873-8774
8775-8799 : 8775-8795, 9797, 8799
8800-8874 : 8820, 8822-8825, 8828-8830, 8837, 8860-8874
8875-8926 : 8875, 8879, 8926
8951-8975 : All accounted for
9001-9115 : All Retired
9201-9239 : 9210-9216, 9218, 9225-9233, 9235-9239
9251-9289 : 9251-9255, 9260-9261, 9263-9289
9301-9413 : 9309-9316, 9318-9323, 9325-9326, 9355-9356, 9358-9359, 9374-9395, 9397-9406, 9413
9421-9463 : 9421-9423, 9427-9429, 9241-9445
9481-9498 : 9481-9492, 9494-9498
9500-9575 : ALL RETIRED
9601-9660 : 9601-9616, 9647-9650
9701-9785 : 9745-9746, 9748-9755, 9759, 9765-9775, 9777-9779, 9781-9785
9801-9835 : 9827-9833 (we currently have 9822-9825 at both (N)orthern and (F)our Mile Run)
Depot by Depot
On route listings, letters in abbreviations are for divisons the route is split between. For example, 32 (B, S) means that the 32 is split between Western, Bladensburg and Southern. An asterisk (*) next to the route indicates which depot most buses come from. For example, 32* (B/S) means that the 32 has most buses coming from Western with fewer from Bladesnburg and Southern.
Western (W)
Routes: 30* (B), 32* (B/S), 34* (B/S), 35* (S), 36* (B/S), 42* (B), 98, D2, D5, D6 (B), E2, E3, E4, E6, H5, H7, L1, L2, L4, M4, N2, N3, N4, N6, N7, N8
Buses:
2208-2219
3701-3718
4023-4030
4071-4080
4300-4309
4345-4358
8851-8855
9201-9209
9217
9256-9259
9262
9407-9412
9448-9453
9631-9646
Notes:
4309 has Balios signs
3717 & 3718 are for Route 98 (Adams Morgan-U Street Link)
Montgomery (M)
Routes: B11, C2, C4, C7, C8, C9, J1, J2, J3, J4, J5, J8, J9, K6* (N), L7, L8, Q2, T2, Y7, Y8, Y9, Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4, Z5, Z7, Z8, Z9, Z11, Z13, Z17, Z19, Z29, 14A, 14B, 14C, 14D
Buses:
2115-2146
3900
4000-4006
4039-4044
4051-4055
4088-4094
4333-4344
4359
4370-4375
4397-4412
5240
8710
8831-8836 (8839 as well?)
9219-9224
9345-9354
9374-9387
9621-9630
9651-9660
9701
9703-9723
Notes: 4400-4408 are for SmartMover service
9701 was first bus with Smartcard machine
9349 resembles Metro-D in back
9659 and 9660 have bottom tailpipes
Landover (L)
Routes: A12, A15, B21, B22, B23, B24, B25, B27, B29, B30, C18, C21, C22, C25, C26, C28, C29, F1, F2, F4, F6, F8, F12, F13, F14, H11, H12, J11, J12, J13, J14, J15, K11, K12, K13, P12, R12, T16, T17, T18, V11, V12, V14, V15, 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, 89M
Buses:
2027-2061
2085-2098
3930-3934
5166-5176
4031-4038
4081-4087
4258-4274
4390-4396
8750
8800-8819
8876-8878
8880-8884
9360-9369
9425-9426
9446-9447
9454-9459
9702
9756-9758
9834-9835 9833 maybe at 4 Mile Run
Notes:
4390-4396 are for the B30 route to BWI Airport. They have high backed seats and luggage racks.
Northern (N)
Routes: 52, 53, 54, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 70, 71, 96, 97 (B), G2, H8, H9, K2, K6 (M), S1, S2, S4,
Buses:
2170-2207
3935-3940
4009-4012
4060-4063
4294-4299
5201-5226
8900-8919
895X-8970
9370-9373
9433-9440
9734-9744
9801-9815
9822-9825
Southern/Annex (S)
Routes: 32 (W/B), 34 (W/B), 35 (W), 36 (W/B), 90, 92, 93, 94, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, A9, A42, A46, A48, C11, C12, C13, C14, D12, D13, D14, M2, M6, M8, M9, N22, P2 (B), P6 (B), P17, P18, P19, V5, V7, V8, V9, W1, W2, W3, W4 (B), W6, W9, W13, W14, W15, W17, W19
Buses:
2163-2169
3922-3929
4007? (maybe at M)
4013-4022
4056-4057
4064-4070
4200-4224
4247-4257 (4252 at F?)
4275-4286
4326-4332
4368
4376-4379
4388-4389
8798
8885-8899
8920-8925
9301-9307
9327-9344
9424
9460-9463
9618-9620
9724-9733
Notes: The annex was formerly Prince George’s Division (P). It became known as the Southeastern Annex when Landover opened. Either Southern or the Annex is to be rebuilt.
4224 out of service awaiting repairs @ Landover
Bladensburg (B)
Routes: 30 (W), 32 (W/S), 34 (W/S), 36 (W/S), 42 (W), 80, 81, 82, 83, 97 (N), B2, B8, B9, D1, D3, D4, D6* (W), D8, G8, H1, H2, H3, H4, H6, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, U2, U4, U5, U6, U8, X1, X2, X3, X6, X8
Buses:
1912 (antique bus fleet, not in revenue service)
2300-2463
3719-3742
3901-3907
3916
5101
5106
5116
5119
5121
5123
5157-5165
5227-5236
8706
8709
8741
8772
8838-8850
8951-89XX
8971-8975
Notes: 2300-2463 are fueled by compressed natural gas
5119 is in the new paint scheme
1912 (GM Old Look) is stored here
Arlington (Randolph Street) (A)
Routes: 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F, 1Z, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2G, 2T, 2W, 3A, 3B, 3E, 3T, 4A, 4B, 4E, 4H, 4S, 7A, 12C, 12D, 12E, 12F, 12L, 12M, 12R, 12S, 15K 15L, 16B, 16C, 16E, 20F, 20W, 20X, 20Y, 22A, 22B, 22C, 22F, 24M, 24P, 24T, 25A, 25B, 25F, 25G, 25J, 25P, 26A, 26E, 26W, 28T
Buses:
2149
2157-2161
3909-3911
3951-3954
4232
4244-4246
4381-4385
5151-5156
8821
9324
9396
9493
9617
9760
Notes: All buses at this division have the new fareboxes which accept the SmarTrip cards
The 26A, 26E, and 26W are known as GEORGE, formerly Electrek, operating in the City of Falls Church
Four Mile Run (F)
Routes: N11, N13, S80, S81, S82, 5A, 5B, 7A, 9A, 9E, 11P, 13A, 13B, 13F, 13G, 16A, 16B, 16C, 16D, 16E, 16F, 16G, 16J, 16L, 16S, 16U, 16W, 16X, 16Y, 28A, 38B
Buses:
2000-2007
2014-2020
2064-2069
2075
2077-2078
2099
3950
4050
4095-4104
4234-4242
4291-4293
8729
8796
8826-8827
9234
9317
9761-9764
9776
9780
9816-9826
Notes: 2000-2007 have NextBus technology for the 38B
Royal Street (R)
Routes: 10A, 10B, 11Y, 25B, 29C, 29E, 29G, 29H, 29K, 29N, 29X
Buses:
2103-2113
4310-4320
8856-8859
9308
9357
9403
9747
If anyone has data collected not reflected in the above, especially in the VA divisions, please e-mail me!!!
Same ride as usual today-got stuck again with a NOVABUS for the morning trip. The only sight i did see was orion V #124 on the S79 repowered-still had its express seats. My question is this: Do early trips on lines where express coaches are used on express lines held over until later runs, or it doesnt matter(For example, my run is 008 in the morning and have caught express coaches-whats the chances of getting a hard seater instead on that run)?
B1-#9339-NOVABUS
B64-#9338-NOVABUS
Due to popular demand...
SubTalk DC Part II has been scheduled!!!
Who: Anyone interested in meeting other railfans while riding the DC MetroRail and buses
What: A railfan/busfan trip on board the DC MetroRail and regional bus carriers
Where: Starting at Union Station, Gate G (near the ladies' room)
When: Saturday, April 5, 2003 (exact meeting time to be determined)
Why: So that those who went on the first SubTalk DC trip can finish the system and to create another oppertunity for DC Area and other railfans to meet
Additional info: Due to the requests of others, it is planned that we go to the Shady Grove, Glenmont, and Addison Road terminals, the three terminals we did not visit in 2000. Also, provided the cherry blossoms are in bloom (they should be), we will walk around the Tidal Basin. CAF car rides may be included.
There will be at least one bus ride on the trip to transverse the two Red Line branches. Other bus rides will be added to the itinerary as necessary. This is a rail-oriented trip. I am under the impression that a bus-oriented trip may be planned for later this year.
The itinerary is subject to change between now and the date of the trip, including which terminals we visit and other attractions we see. I have not done the sceduling for this trip yet.
A web page for info about the trip will be posted in a few days.
If you have any questions or if you would like to inform me that you may be coming, please e-mail me at oren@orenstransitpage.com.
Addendum: Also e-mail me with any requests or wishes you may have. I will see what I can do! I believe lunch will be at the Union Station food court this time around although if there is a strong desire, we can have a brown bag lunch near the Jefferson Memorial. Keep in mind we don't want to spend too much time on the lines we rode two years ago.
Interesting article on Lakeland Bus Lines in this month's edition of Bus Ride Magazine, which IIRC was very close to going out of business a few years ago.
Some inaccuracies in this story...
1. The statement that UMTA was the source of their equipment. Not entirely accurate - NJDOT/NJ Transit is the source. It's a state decision to provide buses to private operators who operate what the state defines as "necessary service". USDOT/UMTA/FTA is involved as they fund capital expenditures of NJT. In fact, the 1982-84 MCI MC9s were primarily pauid for by the PA, not NJT via UMTA.
2. The Midtown Direct competition. The actual rail connection was approved by NJ voters in the 60s when the railroads involved were Erie-Lackawanna and Penn Central. Lakeland's "growth" in the early 80s came from the gain in ridership from the re-electrification of the Morris and Essex rail line which caused substantially reduced service. When the rail service was restored and the Kearny connection completed, the train passengers who went to Lakeland simply returned to the train. Their losses and lawsuit against NJT also were conveneiently timed right after a driver strike, which the article failed to mention - Lakeland took a financial beating from that strike, as it drove even more passengers to the train who never returned. In addition to the cash subsify payments to Lakeland for operations, NJT was also forced by the settlement to buy and own the Lakeland garage in Dover NJ, also left out of the article.
I certainly don't wish Lakeland ill will - I now live in their territory (near Lake Hopatcong). But for the last 30+ years, they KNEW the Kearny rail connection was coming, and had the time and revenue to develop services that did not compete with the rail service in north-central and northwest NJ. For example: there is no public transpoortation along US 206 between I-80 and I-78. Lakeland could have easily begun service in this growth area and had no competition at all.
I am posting observations for the week, because not much is happening in WMATAland, until the Neoplans and 2460-63 are out and running.
1/13/03:
First off 2170-72 are still at Northern they haven't been transferred to Southern. At Federal Triangle, 9825(Northern) had on the back route # sign, "CALL", then "COPS". There must have been an emergency on this bus earlier, don't know what route it was on or going on. I spotted the following buses have cameras and they were 2170 and 2183.
1/14/03:
I spotted 2409 with a camera. 4254's destination signs were not working. Finally 2079 (which is now at Four Mile Run) was spotted on Southern route P6. Also saw 4069 running up 395 and then behind me on 14th Street. I know this bus is still at Four Mile Run because it still has the "F" as its first run letter in the box.
1/15/03:
The only spotting I saw this day was 9410 which is an oddity. Along with its original center brake lights, it also has the center brake lights it got when it was rehabbed and both work. This bus in the old paint scheme. There have been other buses like 9410, but this bus is the only where both work.
1/16/03:
I saw 9703 seemingly coming from Landover, running up Landover Road, on route possibly going to the Addison Road Metro Station. I spotted two University of Maryland buses heading back to the campus bus garage, they were 36 and 7601, a Flxible and Gillig bus respectively.
I spotted 9399 on the 17A, which is a Four Mile Run bus, the bus didn't have bike racks, which means (not exactly), that it is at Royal.
Other than the fact that Royal still has no bike racks, this week has been pretty tame.
I stopped the the NJT Transit Shoppe and discovered the following
1. The will be officially closing on January 31,2003
2. The o-line version of Transit Shoppe will be removed at that time also.
3. The final business hours until closing will be 10am-3pm daily.
4. All items are being sold at a 50% discount(NJT employees receive an additional 10% discount).
5. There are still plenty of road champs Flexible metro ($2.50) and royal coach MC9s for sale. Also all rail videos are $10.00. Also availible are avariety of books and various clothing articles from various railroads.
Is the Transit Shoppe open Monday ? That's a holiday (MLK Day).
Bill "Newkirk"
And to add to Bill Newkirk's posting - is it open Sat or Sun? Remember, your posting says "final business hours until closing will be 10am-3pm daily." Thanks.
Does anyone out there have any information on the Manhattan Lines company (Present day NJT line 161) or a company called Warwick stages (Present day NJT routes 196/197)
Hey, guys!
This is Carlton, Cleanairbus, Transit Is My Drug, here to say that my new website URL is as follows...
www.cleanairbus.tk
The server, unfortunately remains the same, but I just got a new domain name..so use that from now on...
Right now, I just have some new pages, including some of the New Jersey Private operators, including Lakeland, Red & Tan/Rockland Coaches, and Decamp, got some Martz, and (drumroll) I also have some commuter ferry pages...including SeaStreak, NY Water Taxi, and some more NY Waterway boats...
I have updated some pages in the site, you will just have to see what was updated, and more should be added for the next update, including the NJT Neoplan I photographed on Wednesday, some NYCDOT updates, and updated bus rosters.
Bon appetit! ROFL
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Argh....still getting tripod pop-ups :-(
Hmm, you shouldn't be...as this is not a free site at all...it may be your computer with pop-up ad cookies, because I don't get that at all...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
I find it unusual that the HIGHEST-numbered '98 Novas (9535-9699) have the hard plastic seats used in all TA buses since the GM New Looks' 1981 premiere. Yet, the LOWER-numbered Novas from that generation (9350-9534) have the felt-dacron Kings' Plush seating that's been used in all buses newer than '98, whether they be Nova, Orion, New Flyer or Artic.
How did that happen? Were 9535-9669 manufactured BEFORE 9350-9534? Or were they numbered out of sequence? Other than the seats, all the buses in both ranges share the same charactertistics: engine, black inside sign bulkhead, muted signal bell.
For what it's worth, the upholstery on the seats of the 1999 Novas (4900-5200s) are much thinner, rougher and less comfortable than those on the other Plush buses. This is very noticeable if you ride buses from HUD, FLA and QV, all of which have Novas both from '98 and '99.
IIRC, they were renumbered. Someone else may be able to elaborate on the details.
Peace,
ANDEE
[IIRC, they were renumbered.]
No, they were not renumbered. They came in in roughly numerical order, and the higher numbers reverted back to the hard seats. There were rumors those hard seats would be replaced, but that never happened.
I thought the first bus to go back to hard seats was around 9525, not 9535, but I am not 100% sure.
All buses up to 9534 has the padded seats, then from 9535 up to 9699 went back to hardseaters although I heard that 9656 HAS padded seats.
It has something to do with the TA testing these seats out for the first time. Trevor will be able to explain this much better.
Exactly right. The first batch of buses that came into the system with padded seats, 9350, 9352-9525 or whatever the exact number, was only a test batch to see how well the seats would hold up to vandals, dirt and the usual wear and tear. The rest of the 95 and 9600's were not included in that test, so they did not have the padded seats installed. The customers loved the new padded seats and the pads past the test since they held up very good and transit was able to replace the pads very easily and cheaply when they were damaged and they do cut down on people literally falling or sliding out of the seat, so transit ordered all other new buses after that 1998 order with padded seats.
Hope this information helps out.
BIG AL
Thanks Big Al. I knew this had to be the reason why only half the 98'Nova fleet had the padded seats. Basically, the TA only chose the 9352-9534 to be tested out with these seats, while leaving the others as hard-seaters.
Awesome topic. I've been wondering the same thing.
9250-9349 are surburbans. They have the grey front panel with the black bar in the middle that all older RTSs have. And when you press the black tape, the 'ding' is the same ding that you hear on the older buses as well.
Now, my memory is a bit foggy, since it's been a while since I rode these particular buses, and I rode them in no set order, but here's the thing that bothers me.
Starting with 9350 is the huge order of 1997 RTSs that went all the way up through the 9400s, 9500s, and 9600s. I only have experience riding the 9300s at QV and the 9500s at JA, so I can't speak for the other buses. But these 1997 RTSs are the first to have the all-black front panel, as well as the new 'ding' sound that the new RTSs and Orions have. The 1999 4900s and up also had these new features. But in the 9350s, there are some discrepancies.
One day I rode what I believe was 9353. When I saw it coming, I already knew what the inside would look like, since I had previously rode on a LOT of 9360s and 9370s at QV in the past, and I knew that the order started with 9350. I expected the all-black front panel, the special ding, and the plush seats. Boy was I shocked. It had the grey panel, the old ding, and plain hard seats! I was so shocked! It looked just like the previous order of RTSs! I couldn't imagine what was going on here.
Much later, I rode 9350. It had the all-black panel, the new ding, and NO plush seats, which I thought was normal, since all the 9500s I had ever been on didn't have them, so why should this? But LATER THAT DAY, I rode 9371, and it DID have plush seats! I was tearing my hair out.
Somebody PLEASE tell me what's going on!!!!
9250-9349 were the last buses to have the cream bulkhead, black bar that has STAND BEHIND WHITE LINE. 9350-9699 and 4900-5249 were all built with the same interior but they have different features on the outside i.e Green LED signs.
9535-9655,9657-9699 all have hard seats, why I DO NOT KNOW! The rest of the Novas have the padded seating. WHAT, 9353 had the interior and all the features of the 1996 Novas??? That's real strange.
Ok, let me tell you the roster of the 1997/1998 Novas. *=means they have padded/plush seats.
9350-9381* Queens Village
9382-9443* Flatbush
9444-9487* Gun Hill
9488-9534* Hudson Pier
These buses DO NOT have padded/plush seats.
9535-9568 Jamaica
9569-9605 Fresh Pond
9606-9618 Hudson Pier
9619-9654 Michael J Quill
9655-9699 Kingsbridge
NOTE: I believe 9656 DOES in fact have the padded/plush seats.
To add to this mess, my dad saw 9351 today, and it has the cream-colored bulkhead. *dies*
If 9351 had the cream bulkhead, then it was probably the prototype for the entire 1997/1998 order.
Maybe. But I would swear that 9352 or maybe 9353 also had the cream color front. So maybe there was more than one prototype, and then when the MTA decided to go ahead with it, they....upgraded? But wait, why would this be a prototype, when it looks EXACTLY like the 8900s-9100s?
It beats me why 9351 looks EXACTLY like a 1996 Nova. You're right, it's not a 'normal' prototype but what could you do.....
9351 is not a prototype of anything. I've always suspected 9351 was a left over bus at the Nova plant which was never sold to any agency, which explains the old style lights inside. It was probably built right after the 1996 order and some other transit agency screwed up and couldn't take delivery or didn't want it. Whatever the case, it was the first bus to come into the NYCT system from that 1998 order even though the bus is a 1997 but why it was numbered 9351 and not 9350 beats me. Transit lists that bus in it's roster books as a 1998. (Transit also lists the 4800's as 1987's even though they are 1988's.)
The same thing happened with 4901. It was the first bus in that batch to come into the system. It is really a 1998 Nova, coming in right after the 9600's. It was assigned to Mabstoa, Kingsbridge depot I think, where I would always see it in the Bronx when I drove the Q44 out of Jamaica depot. It was transferred to Q.V. right after they got in their full order of 1999 4900's. However, 4901 looks exactly like it's siblings, unlike 9351.
BIG AL
I had a feeling that MIGHT be the case b/c what knid of prototype would that be for the 1997/1998 Novas. I wonder why prototypes always have the last [ones] digit as a 1 instead of 0 [i.e. 4901 was the prototype, why not 4900 or both].
I have 2 questions.
[This is for BIG AL or anyone who knows this] Since you said you drove the Q44 from Jamaica [I believe the route was split with CS & JAM] when did CS get the entire Q44?
How did they solve the fiasco with 8750 and 8751 while having no bus numbered 8752?
Thanx.
C.S. always had the entire route up until 1995 when they decided to split the route with Jamaica depot. The reason was because Merrick and Archer, one of the terminus', is only a few blocks from Jam. depot and somebody felt a little money could be saved on deadhead trips to the Jamaica center. I drove the route in 1996 and right after that, I believe either the Summer or Fall of 1997 it was given back to C.S. due to a large amount of friction between the C.S. and Jamaica operators. Both depots felt the other wasn't doing their share of the work on the line.
I have no clue on answers to your other two questions.
BIG AL
So that's why JAM gave up their share of the Q44. Thanks for the info.
The odd-ball QV bus you saw was actually a 1997 Nova #9351. It is a 1997 model, while the rest of the fleet are 1998's, hence the differences. Bus 9351 was delivered on the heels of the 1996 option of 100 suburbans (9250-9349), and has all of the mechanical characteristics of the coaches except for the seating arrangement.
Interestingly enough, buses 8750 and 8751 are both considered to be 1996 Novas. However, they are actually 1995 TMC's built to the exact same specs as 1994 TMC's 8600-8703--including those trademark interior light covers.
Mark
And those two buses were the last TMC's for New York City under the TMC name before it was sold to NovaBus. Man, the 1994 TMC's have the best interior lights, a bus well built. Too bad they didn't place a larger oder of these. Does 9351 have the engine that the rest of the 1997/1998 Novas do?
Bus 9351 has the same engine (DDS50 III) as the rest of the 1996/97 Novas. The 1998/99's have a DDS50 IV engine.
Mark
Why was this first bus numbered 9351? Why did they skip 9350 at first?
[Why was this first bus numbered 9351? Why did they skip 9350 at first?]
I don't know why, but recollect the same thing happened with the 4900's. The demo/prototype that first came in was 4901.
9350 and 9351 are both hard-seaters. I remember riding them both on the Q46
Except for a few posts from WMATAGMOAGH, Wayne Johnson and myself, there has rarely been a post from DC bustalkers in the past week. I know 1C Ballston is enjoying the warm weather at Disneyworld, but where is everyone else.
Or is it that WMATAland is just so boring and nothing has really happened in a while to note here. It might get a little interesting when the Neoplans roll.
Until then, I will keep my eyes and ears open for any unusual bus happenings in this area.
Wes E. Samuels (if I told you my middle name, I would have to kill you) :-D
i would have to say boring. im almost certain that the neoplans will add a bit more flair, but theyre so few in number that you could be waiting awhile for them
I've actually been posting frequently this past week? I feel like I haven't come on board that often.
I went skiing today (now yseterday), I didn't know Ballston/1C is down at Disneyworld but I hope he enjoys it. I can't say I liked it very much (not a big amusement park or Disney fan) but the bus system and monorail were quite interesting.
Yea, you've been, but I guess, because WMATA and its surrounding transit agencies are as dead as 9500s Neoplans have of coming back to WMATA service again. The next couple of months should be interesting with the Neoplans entering service and the fuel cell bus testing coming soon. Also, could we be seeing more new buses coming from Ride On, DASH and maybe Fairfax Connector. I would say the bus, but again buying more vanbuses would not be considered bus news. If they bought some REAL buses, maybe I would put them up there, but they keep buying the equivalent of Orion IIs look alikes.
Also DC busfans would venture a trip up to Baltimore, they will be getting tons o' Neoplans low floors coming very soon.
Not a lot of activity going on at Ride-On nor any clues of new busses coming. But hey, u'll never know. I would love to take a trip up to Baltimore if I had a free ride on MARC or Metroliner because I am only a teenager with no source of income :(
Don't bother with the MetroLiner to Baltimore unless you really want to shell out the money, go on the MARC. Also, there is no news about if they liked the C40LF loan over the summer.
You see the SubTalkDC trip? That should be relatively low cost (5 dollar 1 day rail pass, a few rail to bus transfers, and lunch). Hope to see you there! Also, I thought those library jobs were paying.
Also, I saw the picture of 5705 the day of the shooting and it had the silver rack then. I am surprised you didn't notice it at Bethesda, I noticed almost immediately when the bus pulled up. Here is a picture of the rack and black ribbon taken this past week.
Nah, I volunteer, I need at least 60 hours to graduate. I'm gonna have to get back at you about the SubTalk trip later, that time of the year is going to be very busy for me, so I'm not too certain right now. Nice picture, I still wonder why it is silver.
OK, I don't need to know if you are coming now but I do hope you can make it.
My guess as to why 5705 has the silver rack is it was a test to see if it looked better on the buses. As to why that bus, I don't know, but here are 5705 and 5725 (left) in almost the exact same location at White Flint on Monday and Tuesday of this week:
I think the silver one looks slighty better but the black one is more bold and noticeble.
I'm still here, just nothing interesting or new. Although i'm gonna go busfanning today.
Hope the buses come on time for you, it's cold as heck out there!
Chuck Greene
Hey guys, I'm back! We had an awesome time at Disney World. The weather was the best Wednesday and Thursday when we could actually wear shorts! Of course we kept up on all the wather in the Mid Atlantic and paid for it dearly last night! With my severe fear of flying, we drove, but it wasn't too bad. It only took 11 1/2 hours to drive down and 13 hours to drive back. We took longer coming back because as we passed Jacksonville, saw a sign for the Budweiser brewery and decided to take a side trip and visit there and get free beer! : )
My fiancee and I stayed at the All Star Movies. We decided to just leave the car there and use their shuttle bus system which consisted of GMC/TMC RTS's and NovaBus LFS. I think we must have ridden on about 30 of those buses the week we were down there because we'd take multiple rides. We also took the shuttles to some of the other resorts to check them out and use them as transfer points to Downtown Disney rather than going all the way back to ours. Had a few trips on the Monorail as well and rode in the front on Monday AM. The driver gave us these cards which made us honorary monorail drivers. The buses were in decent condition, especially the LFS ones. Those were definitely more fun to ride than the RTS, since I've been on the RTS so many other times. I do have to say that both the RTS and the LFS are perfect "Disney-esque" buses since they are both futuristic looking. Some of the RTS have been outfitted with orange destination signs and all the LFS have them as well.
This was the best week to go down as the crowds were very light. They got more crowded towards then end of the week because of some huge soccer tournament which brought thousands of kids to the parks. By then, we had seen every park multiple times so it didn't really matter, but I was glad to be leaving yesterday! I love it down there as it was a nice break from here. The week didn't go by as fast as I thought it would, which was very nice. Went on the Rock N' Roller Coaster at MGM about 7 times and Test Track at EPCOT about 9 or 10 times. The Fantasmic night show at MGM is a good time as well.
As much of a say as Disney has on a lot of things down there which can be very annoying, they sure do know how to show you a good time at least. I did take out the computer chip implanted in my head when I arrived so I should be back to normal now! LOL
I'm looking forward to getting caught up on what's going on here on the board as well as with the DC area transit stuff. I'll try not to board a metrobus asking the bus driver if they're going to Magic Kingdom or Downtown Disney!
Those RTS signs were pretty crappy when I was down there. I am sure the orange signs are very helpful. The buses were pretty nice and the RTSs did get pretty good speed. I didn't get to ride any of the LFS. They never ran on the routes I was taking and when they did, I never caught them.
I never went to MGM, was it good? I had enough by that time and played golf that morning while the rest of the family went to MGM. Spent the afternoon in the room reading, probably my favorite day other than spending 90 minutes one afternoon riding the entire Monorail system. Where is this resort you stayed at? I don't know if you checked it out but I was at the Port Orleans.
Also, why didn't you take Auto Train one way? I haven't done it myself but it would have been an interesting experience.
The older signs on the RTS are really crappy and hard to read. Although, I was able to make out "Boardwalk" from a pretty good distance and we were able to make a run for it. The orange signs do help out a lot and are very easy to read. The LFS buses were really nice. I bought a toy version of one in the gift shop. Of course it has Mickey and Goofy in it, too, but its still fun to have.
MGM is one of my favorite parks. If you like the Muppets, there is a neat 3D movie as well as a "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" show that you can go to. The Rock N' Rollercoaster and the Tower of Terror are the main attractions as well as the Fantasmic night show. I liked MGM and Epcot the best.
We were thinking about the Auto Train, but I figured it would really be expensive, since you have to pay for the car as well. Maybe next time we'll look into that. We're thinking of taking our honeymoon on a cruise and a swing through Disney as well, so maybe we'll do that!
Golfing down there looks to be plentiful. There were signs all over the place for golf courses.
The All Star resorts are the value resorts and are close to MGM/Animal Kingdom. It wasn't too far from Coranado Springs Convention Center. Lots of people stay at the All Stars since they are the cheapest resorts, but its worth it since for the most part, you're just sleeping there and there's the free shuttles that run fairly often. Sometimes, the buses were SRO, but if you timed it right, you were ok. The Carribbean Beach Resorts looked nice and I think they are only one step up price-wise and the Swan and Dolphin were beautiful, but I would never pay the high prices for those.
Maybe you realized this but I am not the biggest Disney fan, which is why my favorite days were the golf and riding the monorail (big surprise). I can't say I am the next Tiger Woods so I played one of their executive courses, which was nice (although it was raining so I did not to as well as I would have otheriwse). I liked the World Pavillion part of Epcot (family missed it because they decided to go on Test Track) and the Magic Kingdom. Splash Mountain does live up to its reputation. Animal Kingdom didn't exactly appeal to me because as the guidebooks say, it is horribly designed and you do feel as if you are in an African village. That and Dorney Park in Allentown, PA, are the two worst amusement parks when it comes to shade.
Which ones were the Carribbean Beach Resorts? I do remember the Swan and Dolphin, I think other relatives of mine stayed there when they went. I could find all my brochures to figure out what the Port Orleans was near. The Contemporary and the Grand Floridian looked really nice (I could spend a very long time in the atrium of the Contemporary) but I hear staying there sucks because there aren't any buses, just the monorail, so to get anywhere is a pain.
I've never tried golf, I have gone to a driving range and did poorly. I'm going to have to try again and maybe get out there one of these days! The great thing about the DC area is the number of golf courses around. I have a friend that goes out to Ocean City every Columbus Day weekend to take on the courses out there.
I like the country sections of Epcot too. We walked many times around there. Mexico and Norway have boat rides in their pavillions too. Test Track is really fun, but not worth waiting anymore than about 15 minutes for it. Basically, no ride is worth more than about that anyway! I've never been to Dorney, but I know its one of those old time parks. Knoebbels in Elysburg, PA is like that too, but its built in the woods so plenty of shade.
I'm not sure where in the Caribbean beach resorts we were. We just kind of got off the bus as soon as we could in case we missed our connections. The Aruba section looked nice though. The Contemporary is a really nice place, especially with the monorail. Chef Mickey's is pricey, but fun. The buses do stop there. You have to go down an escalator or two, but they have shuttles to each park. We took the monorail there, then caught the bus to MGM. I don't know if that's new or not, but it was a big terminal for buses. I agree that Animal Kingdom is not shaded much, and there is a nice amount of walking to do. Kali Rapids is good though. If your raft doesn't go down the last drop backwards, you'll come out dry. Too bad none of the 4 times I was on it, I couldn't tell you how dry you'd remain!
The Norway boat ride was too long but I went on the Mexican one. It wasn't the most interesting thing ever. They had a exhibit about baseball at the Japanese pavillion and a group pretending to be the Beatles was performing in the UK.
Dorney is an old time park? All I can say is that it lacks shade so much, they have an icon on the map indicating where the shady spots are.
I don't know about Chef Michey's. Also, the terminal for buses, what are you describing? Downtown Disney, Magic Kingdom, or the TTC?
Kali Rapids was good, there was hardly any line for that but the line for the safari was long, so we FastPassed the safari and went to ride the rapids. I have been on more exciting rapids rides in the past, I didn't get too wet on Kali Rapids.
Yeah, Dorney Park has been around for many, many years. Its probably one of the oldest parks on the East Coast, other than Coney Island.
There is a bus terminal at the Contemporary. It takes you to all the parks, except for Magic Kingdom, probably since the monorail is right there, and I'm sure there's one for Downtown Disney that stops there. After we ate at Chef Mickey's, we took the escalator down and saw the signs pointing to the buses.
I see you had a nice time down there. I never been there since 1992.
I got a few questions.
1. Did you get a chance to check out the Lynx Bus systerm for orlando?
2. Was there any fare you had to pay for the shuttles?
Back in 1992.I mostly rode the Monorail and some disney buses.1 was a I think a 1985 RTS with Non Slideing Doors and the other was a 1990 RTS with a slideing door but with a ParaTransit Style W/C Lift in the back. Both was on the Holiday Inn-Disney Shuttle and I do rember the routeing also went by Sea World as well.
The seats in the 1990 RTS's that I can rember were Purple Padded seats. And I not shure if my parents had to pay for the buses
The Disney buses are free as is the monorail. Instead, you are charged up the wazoo in other fees as at any other amusement park. The buses have a light green and purple scheme.
Some of the RTS's I was on had a burnt orange/brown scheme going with a red floor. Some had the purple seats and a gray floor. I'm sure a lot of these buses were bought second hand. I was on a 35' bus inside the Fort Wilderness Lodge resort. They use those as a shuttle from the campsites to the 'outpost' where you connect with other buses to the parks/downtown disney.
Saw some LYNX buses, too. There was one route, the 301, that came into the Animal Kingdom park. Another one, I think it was the 56, was around the Magic Kingdom area.
It is quite interesting to see non-transit people on these buses. All were pretty behaved. Some didn't know to move back when there was a standing load, others put their kids all over the seats and the senior citizens ended up standing. That stuff annoyed me, but they do run a pretty efficient service, for the most part.
That's right, a few do have an older scheme. It has been almost a year...
Never went to Fort Wilderness although the buses from the Port Orleans often went near it.
Quite a few LYNX routes go to the TTC, I didn't know of any that went directly to Animal Kingdom.
I have never ridden a Disney bus, but I hear nothing but rave reviews from anyone who does.
I want to know Disney Transport's secret. What do they do that makes upper-middle class soccer moms want to ride a bus where they would never consider it at home?
A Disney bus driver (who may or may not post here) explained to me their extremely unconventional system of dispatching and assigning buses. This sort of flexibility might help, but there's more to the success of the system than just that.
In any case, plenty of real transit systems could learn a thing or two from Disney - and that's pretty sad.
The upper-middle class soccer moms take the bus for several reasons. One is that it is free. Secondly, they are on vacation and do not want to put up with the hassle of parking.
As for their unconventional system of dispatching and assigning buses as you put it wouldn't work in a real transit system. You can tell the driver of the Magic Kingdom to Port Orleans shuttle bus to just go back and forth continuously. You can't tell the L2 driver go between Chevy Chase Circle and McPherson Square continuously because no one will know when the buses show up. The Disney buses maintain their spacing by some means and layover at the parks, so I think that there is a schedule of some sort. Simply, Disney is more like an airport shuttle operation than a transit system.
Why do these people use the bus at Disney World?
1. It's free.
2. You don't want to have to drive your own vehicle around and find parking spaces. Many people don't even have a vehicle available to them there anyway, they stay at WDW hotels.
3. It doesn't carry the usual transit element.....the folks staying at the WDW resort paid good money to stay there, you won't see the usual street crowd there.
It doesn't carry the usual transit element.....you won't see the usual street crowd there.
Which is the same reason that well-paid business executives have nothing against riding shuttle buses at the airport. And business execs in Manhattan and elsewhere will ride express coaches to and from work.
Despite what many in the pro-light rail crowd would have you believe, people are not turned off by buses per se.
Jim D.
[Which is the same reason that well-paid business executives have nothing against riding shuttle buses at the airport. And business execs in Manhattan and elsewhere will ride express coaches to and from work.]
The sociological components of acceptability of mass transit to individuals, be it buses, light rail or heavy rail, seems to me to be ignored too often. Of course, studying the situation is not a very easy task either, and coming up with possible solutions may be difficult at best. But the fact remains that a huge group of middle and upper class folks in the New York metropolitan area wouldn't think of taking a bus or subway because of their perception of the people that use those means of transportation.
That is both true and sad; in the 50s, EVERYBODY rode the bus...I've seen it in film. Why did it get such a bad reputation? Did GM's big move to kill off trolleys with buses and then kill off buses with cars become a huge factor in the mix? What happened?
-F.
Completely not true. Have you ever ridden the subway or LIRR or metro north during rush hour. Plenty of middle class and upper middle class suits on the trains. Local Buses in manhattan are just too slow and quite frankely many routes which duplicate subway lines should be eliminated (stations should be maid ADA complient first)
The truth of the matter is that mass transit is too inconvient and slow to use other then times where you absolutly need to use it.
ie: traveling into manhattan during the day
In addtion most decentrailize suburbs make it difficult for mass transit to ever compete agains private vehicles due to thier layout.
Why wait for a bus when you can be there befor the bus arrives. In brookly where i live i see just as many carribean americans shun buses as white americans when the option allows them too. Take a walk around canarsie and revise your above statement looking at the situation with clear unbiased eyes
[In brookly where i live i see just as many carribean americans shun buses as white americans when the option allows them too. Take a walk around canarsie and revise your above statement looking at the situation with clear unbiased eyes]
I assume all but the poorest Carribean Americans have the option to shun buses. This is still in accord with my statement, "But the fact remains that a huge group of middle and upper class folks in the New York metropolitan area wouldn't think of taking a bus or subway because of their perception of the people that use those means of transportation." I don't think minorities act too differently from white Americans; once they have the financial means to travel by auto rather than mass transit, they often do so, sometimes feeling that mass transit is for their poorer, less fortunate brethren. While this, by no means, is the sole reason for an overall decline in mass transit use the past 60 years, it is a reason not often addressed at all by transit operators, urban planners, etc.
(can we get back to Disney Transport and not the psychology of why soccer moms ride buses at Disney & not in their home towns?! This is BUS TALK and NOT Frasier!)
Therefore...
Disney Transport operates approximately 216 buses (GM & TMC RTS), starting in 2001 they have acquired NOVA low floors. They serve all four theme parks as well as Downtown Disney and the Transportation & Ticket Center. All of these are transportation hubs. They also serve the three water parks and the 16+ Disney owned resorts.
All routes are loops. Drivers may work one specific route in the morning and another in the afternoon. This breaks-up the boredom!
Service to the hotels in the Lake Buena Vista Village is contracted to Mears. At one time, the service was performed by Comet using 10 brand new TMC T80-206 RTS.
At night, when the parks are closed, the buses are stored at the Transportation & Ticket Center. In the morning, drivers report for their assignments and get their buses.
General maintenance is performed at a facility behind the Car Care Center near the entrance to the Magic Kingdom. Heavy maintenance is done at a central facility. This area renders service to all motorized vehicles. This area is way behind the scenes that the tourist normally sees.
A few years prior to 2001, Disney acquired used RTS buses. Several came from Maimi' Metrobus including #1171 (this bus was still wrapped as a Miami Metrorail) Some were rebuilt others used as spare parts. The rebuilt buses have a plate that says: Midwest Rebuilders.
They are labeled "Special" and serve as driver training and to transport cast members around the property.
Disney also has (had) several Super Bus trailers pulled by WhiteGMC "Xpeditor" tractors.
The Disney Cruise buses are Van Hools T-2145 they are owned by Disney but opertated by Mears. Likewise, the vip service MCI 102D3.
"But the fact remains that a huge group of middle and upper class folks in the New York metropolitan area wouldn't think of taking a bus or subway because of their perception of the people that use those means of transportation"
It has nothing to do with perception of people who use mass transit it has everything to do with speed and convience. This is definitly true in NYC. It would take me a half hour or more to go round trip to the bank starting at flatbush AVE and ave U and ending a nostrand and ave U on the B3. It takes me a predicatable speedy 10 minutes by car.
People drive vs. taking mass transit based on a value system of how long it by mass transit vs. how long it takes by car. It takes 10 minutes to get to bensonhurst from marine park by car but nearly an hour by bus. 15 min to bay ridge by car vs. hour 14 to hour and a half by bus. do the math
The same can be said in sulfolk county Long Island where i went to college. To go from stony brook to smith haven mall takes 5 minutes by car plus you park right i front of the store you want. By bus - THe bus comes 2 times an hour. Takes longer, plus drops you off in a location where you may need to walk a half mile to the store. Unless you are going to make a day of it it just MAKES NO SENSE.
To recap people drive for speed and ease if possible.
In poor neighborhoods some people may want to look like top cheease and drive everywhere. That is not indiciative of the population as a whole. People drive when because it is faster and easier. IF you live on LI and work in the city LIRR is not convient unless you work normal hours. IF you are not at the station by a certain time in the morning forget about getting a parking spot for your car. Plus if you work late you face long waits for you train home. Not everyone can predivt when they get out
If I am going to manhattan om the other hand i take the bus to the train.
How would you then explain the large groups of middle and upper middle class manhattanites who do not own a car and rely on public transit to get around the city. And NO most middle class manhattan ites do not take cabs everywhere. If mass transit is a option they take it.
That is true; we have a Downtown Express shuttle here that runs every 10 minutes to a Park and Ride spot just outside downtown. While regular routes are covered by utilitarian Gilligs, the Express is run with two new Thomas SLF low-floor coaches that are in a flashy paint scheme, which is appealing to its mostly clean-cut riders. They love the service, and it is free to them.
However, there is a catch; you must have a City of Roanoke employee ID to ride the shuttle. Just another way of keeping out the "riff-raff" to please its target riders, as you mentioned.
-F.
This is true; the same holds water for our museum shuttles. The folks paid for an event via a separate organization, and we offer the riders free shuttles as a separate entity. Meanwhile, our running costs are covered by the respective non-profit that requests our service. Most of the time, that keeps out any "riff-raff", and if a rider is under the influence of anything, we kindly ask them to exit the coach for the safety and comfort of our passengers.
-F.
The thing that I like about Disney was their rather older bus fleet. Their buses are at least 10-15 years old. (The RTS's) They are overall in very good shape, and several of them still have the 6V-71 engine in them, and 2 or 3 had the 8V-71. Those are my favorite bus engines of all time. Hearing those mighty engines reminded me of the great 30xx-33xx RTS' that NYCTA had, and respectively the Grumman 870s' the NYCDOT privates had. Bring back the 6V-71 engine to the NYCTA!!!
Disney's buses are definitely in good shape. They'd be in big trouble if they ran inferior equipment. The ones that do seem to be on their last legs are the 2700 series RTS and the 35' RTS that run to the smaller resorts.
I did see a Flxible Metro from behind, but couldn't tell who ran it. It was too far away to make it out. I did see an RTS run by some other private company there, so maybe they have that Flxible too.
Disney DOES have good maintenance, whether it be buses or any of their other equipment.
Out here in California, they were running, until 3 years ago, parking lot trams with the Clark airport-baggage-style tractors that were 1969 models!! Thirthy years old, and they were still going strong in everyday service. The new trams are more heavy-duty -- but seven old Clark tractors are STILL being used for behind-the-scenes employee shuttles and maintenance duties!!
They have two old-looking open-air double deck buses styled after the old Fifth Avenue buses -- these were built when the park opened in 1955, and they are still running up and down Main Street daily. They have been re-engined with alternate-fueld zero-emission engines, but they still have their stick shifts!!
The monorails at Disneyland just LOOK newer....the bodies were rebuild in 1986 on the guts of the trains built in 1969! All four trains have a couple million miles on them. They are scheduled to be replaced in the next 18 months, though nobody knows what's coming to replace them. It is NOT Bombardier, as Bombardier representatives at the APTA Expo 2002 in Las Vegas said a definite "NO". (The presently running 1969 units were built in-house at Disney Studios in Burbank; the bodies were built by "Ride-N-Show" of San Dimas, California.)
Wow, they sure do keep their equipment going for a long time! What year are the monorails at Disneyworld? Are they from around 1969, too? At some points of the trip, I was more fascinated watching the choreography of the buses more than the parks themselves.
I was talking to the monorail driver on our way to the Contemporary and I jokingly said how I wouldn't mind moving to FL and drive for Disney as I had my CDL. He was very excited and said that I should just go to casting and apply. LOL. I'd love to see their maintenance facility for both buses and the monorail. The Nova LFS ran really nice and fast. Some of the RTS's had good speed, others poked along. One we were on leaned to the right a bit. The driver joked about that problem and said that everyone standing should hold on tight. One night coming back from Downtown Disney there was one RTS in each of the three lanes, with us in the middle. It felt like they were racing each other as we were hauling back to the resorts.
From the Oren's Transit Page :
The Disney World Monorail opened in 1989 and has not been extended since. It serves the Magic Kingdom and Epcot theme parks, as well as the Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC), the location of the parking lot for the Magic Kingdom. An extension to the Animal Kingdom theme park was proposed when it opened but never made it further than the talking stages.
For more information on the Disney World Monorail, click the link above. The information is complied from operator accounts, a track map, and personal observations and assumptions. You can learn how to operate one of the monorail trains on that page, too! And of course, there are pictures.
I hate to say it but the Walt Disney World monorails have been running a lot longer than "since 1989" as stated.
The monorails around the lake started operation when WDW first opened the Magic Kingdom and hotels around the lake in the late 1970's. The original trains are long gone. Newer ones were built in 1981....two of those are running in Las Vegas, Nevada between MGM Grand and Bally's casinos. Those two were overhauled in 1994.
I believe WDW also got some more monorail trains in the early 1990's.
Whoa there, that is what I get for not previewing and being overconfident in my HTML programming. Here is the correct message:
From the Oren's Transit Page Disney World Monorail Page:
The Disney World Monorail opened in 1989 and has not been extended since. It serves the Magic Kingdom and Epcot theme parks, as well as the Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC), the location of the parking lot for the Magic Kingdom. An extension to the Animal Kingdom theme park was proposed when it opened but never made it further than the talking stages.
For more information on the Disney World Monorail, click the link above. The information is complied from operator accounts, a track map, and personal observations and assumptions. You can learn how to operate one of the monorail trains on that page, too! And of course, there are pictures.
WDW monorails have been around since the late 1970's, NOT 1989 as stated.
WOW....1969? Imagine if New Looks of the same era were still ruggin shuttles there. I mean, they could always be rehabbed every so often. That is what Disney needs...old school transits for shuttle service! Call me Goofy, but I think it would work...LOL!
-F.
Okay, Goofy.... :-)
No, buses do NOT work at Disneyland because of the sheer amounts of people loading up and unloading at the same time.
Parking at the Disneyland Resort is at two facilities. One is a 2,000 space open flat parking lot serviced by up to four of the trams. The other facility is a 17,000 space, six level parking structure (the world's largest, supposedly). The rest of the tram fleet works that side of the resort. All people from the garage use escalators to the tram station at ground level to get to the main entrance of the two amusement parks, about a mile travel the way the tram roadway loops.
The trams have a heavy-duty tractor pulling seven open air trailers with basically all-forward seating in seven rows (front row faces backwards), each row seats five adults. Access can be from both sides of the tram, though only one side of the other is used depending on which side of the station the tram operator pulls into. That's approximately 225 or so folks on each tram, more with little kids on laps, etc. It takes all of one minute to load or unload those 225 people thanks to each row of seats having its own step entry. Can you imagine how long it would take 225 people to get in and out of a bus, even with two double stream doors??
Also, the trams are running, basically, continuously. It would take, with your suggestion of using buses, about 4-5 buses for the load one tram could carry. That would mean 4-5 times as many drivers (hey, even at Disney's lousy wages of $7.71 an hour...that adds up), that much more maintenance, and the added expense of the new equipment int he first place. The trams were cheap -- they have 16 of the tractors and 120 of the trailers (configured in front, rear and mid-tram units).
Oh, just as a point of info...I know someone's gonna ask -- what do they do about ADA folks? The front tram trailer units are set up so the first row of seats folds, and there are permanent slope ramps at the stations to get a wheelchair up to tram level. They also have half a dozen or so "Handi-Vans" in case there are more wheelchairs than the trams could handle without slowing up the tram headways. Getting a wheelchair on/off the tram takes all of 20 seconds...if that.
WOW....1969? Imagine if New Looks of the same era were still running shuttles there. I mean, they could always be rehabbed every so often. That is what Disney needs...old school transits for shuttle service! Call me Goofy, but I think it would work...LOL!
-F.
The ones that do seem to be on their last legs are the 2700 series RTS and the 35' RTS that run to the smaller resorts.
I photographed several of the 2700's when I visited Disney in 1985. I doubt there are very many other buses I photographed that year still running for their original operators.
JD
I am pretty sure there were some 2700s still running when I was there last year. Here is a 2600 although I don't know if the numbers are in order:
WOW...what a nice bus. Is that a recent pic, or one of your photos from 1985? That is a very good looking RTS, but I cannot make out the number. Which 2600 is that?
-F.
I only went to Disney World last February. That is a GMC RTS II, the number is 2665.
Ah...so the 2700s are older than 1985?
-F.
Really? They have Flxible Metros there? And how old are the 2700s?
-F.
I'm not sure who ran the Flx Metros. It may have been from a private company as I only saw it from behind. The 2700's are probably about 20 years old or so.
No Flxible Metros operated by Disney, LYNX, or anyone else when I was down there. Orions, RTSs, and Gilligs only.
I LOVE the 6V71...it is the Slant Six of bus engines! And the 8V71 is a great one too. I grew up on these; some may call them underpowered, but I like the sound of a 71!
-F.
That's what I liked about Blacksburg Transit for the longest time; they had a fleet of 6v71-powered Flx Metros and RTSes of that age that ran most routes, and they kept 8v71-powered Flx New Looks in service through the end of 1999. Unfortunately, everything is all New Flyer these days due to wheelchair accessibility requirements.
Fortunately, that helps the disabled, but sadly took the fun away from my bus riding adventures there. :( At least I have the memories.
-F.
The same reason that middle-class soccer moms ride our museum buses here in Roanoke, Virginia, a place which sadly suffers from low ridership and a general lack of interest in public transit....it's something different, and a great convenience. Don't want to wrestle the minivan all over God's green earth to find a spot? Take the shuttle. It's free to the riders, and a great, convenient service.
Also, on our end, we have historic vehicles, which adds to the interest of children when they know they're on something as old as Mommy and Daddy. For those in between, there is the "retro" factor. While we cannot yet say that about the Disney RTS, it sounds from several posters as if they are becoming historic vehicles as well.
-F.
Welcome back! I'm glad to hear that you and the little lady had a good time.
I also enjoyed Disney and I'm overdue for another trip there.
Wayne
Hi Wayne! Its great to be back with everyone here. Pam actually asked me if I missed my 'bus friends' the other day and I said, "Yes, I'm missing all the good bus gossip!"
If you do go, I'd suggest either the middle of December before everyone takes winter breaks, or this part of Jan.-Feb. after everyone goes back to school. Of course, I know people can't always take off then, especially with kids, but from an adult perspective, these times are the best since its the least crowded.
Welcome back, sounds like you had fun. Unfortunately, you didn't bring back the warm weather, LOL!! Well we could have more snow, oh yea, and the Neoplans might have their first shot at the snow. Of course, the snow might be the whimpy girly kind we have had over the past couple ones we had.
Yeah, we had a great time, thanks! We both really needed a break and I feel nice and relaxed. I wish I could have brought the warm weather back, but it was actually pretty cold for them when we left yesterday. They had freeze warnings out for parts of northern and Central Florida. Of course, seeing the snow on the ground as we passed through Northern North Carolina and Southern Virginia made me want to cry and turn around and go back to FL!
Did anyone see an LL Cool J video, back about 6-7 years ago, where he did some scenes in front of a New York City bus depot? It was one where the buses would pull in and back out, the song was a remix of Loungin (proper name was "Who Do You Love". In the shots, I think there were only RTSs in there. It might have been were he was from.
I do recall L.L. shooting a video aboard 1976 Flxible #7768. I can't remember the name of the song, but I do know that practically the entire video was shot on inside the bus.
I do not remember him shooting a vid in front of a bus depot, however, he was (and still is) so partial to SE Queens that I would be willing to bet that it was Jamaica Depot, which "reps" his neighborhood.
Mark
I do recall LL Cool J shooting a video at the Jamaica Bus Terminal with the Queens Library shown in the background. What video was that?
Ray
I think it was Who Do You Love, the Loungin remix, although it sounds WAY different from each other.
I think the original poster is talking about, the Jamaica (165St) Bus terminal. Im not sure since Ive never been in that part of Jamaica.
This spring DC bus fans might be seeing an odd bus coming this spring as WMATA will be testing a fuel cell bus in cooperation with Georgetown University. The bus, type and manufacturer unknown, will be on routes in the WMATA bus system, but will be stored on the Georgetown University and they will provide the methonal fuel to fuel the bus. WMATA will provide the operator for the bus.
Could this mean that WMATA in the future test a hybrid bus?
I am sure when WMATA puts this bus in revenue service, they hopefully let us know which routes this bus would be in service and how long it will be tested. They did for the low floor tests and 25th anniversary bus.
More details to come
Oh yea: the link is http://www.wmata.com/about/MET_NEWS/200301/pr_fuelcell.cfm
They're WHAT?????????????
Just another reason to go back to D.C. and shoot some buses...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
That's been in the works for some time now. I actually provide technical support to the group at GU that operates these buses. Most likley they'll be using their RTS. The bus is a 40-foot, 102-inch 08 series. I've seen the bus as recently as this morning, but I can never get pics because it's stored inside a dark building most of the time and they haven't bought it out much lately. Then of course on the days the bus does come out I never seem to have my camera with me. This bus is awesome to ride and the acceleration is simply amazing.
Wayne
How long have they had this bus? Second, WOW!! you got to see this thing probably before any other busfan have.
Well the program started sometime in the early 90's and I think there's actually 5 buses. The first two of them are 30-foot BMI and I think they were built in '93. My understanding is that one is at UMD (not operating) and we have one stored at GU. There are 2 NovaBUS RTS WFD, but we have one and the other RTS pretty much stays on the west coast. I wish I had kept my CDL, because I'm almost certain that I would've managed to drive one of them. These buses are so quiet that one day I was walking on campus and it came from behind me and of course I was in awe. On Tuesday I'll be sure to ask the engineers about the details of the bus testing with WMATA.
Wayne
I didn't realize that GU actually had a transportation program there. I've seen some of the "GUTS" buses running around, but never the RTS. I know West Viriginia Univ. is doing something in conjunction with WMATA as well to test their engines, etc. Virginia Tech has a decent program as well, I believe. I wish Univ. of MD had a better transportation program. I majored in Economics which is working well for being a transit analyst, but I'd like to do more planning and should have taken more urban studies classes. I may look into it more. I did take this one neat one week course on planning and scheduling at MIT in 2000 and that was really cool, but a little over my head. Luckily, no grades were given since it was considered a professional class. They did give us a one week pass to use on MBTA which I used as much as possible. I guess that's the least they could do for a course that cost $1,700! Thankfully, my company paid for it.
The GUTS buses operate shuttles between Main Campus and DuPont Circle, Rosslyn, Arlington Loop, 2115 & 2233 Wisconsin Ave, GU Law Center and an employee shuttle to Montgomery Mall. The fuel cell bus program is funded by the FTA and they haven't really carried many passengers. The RTS did operate in GUTS service for a few days last Spring. Usually they'll bring out the fuel cell RTS when visitors in the transportation, alternate fuel industry come to GU. If I'm not too busy and I see them pulling out the bus... I'll go for a ride too.
Wayne
So how is this fuel cell RTS.....nice on the inside? Quiet and smooth like a normal diesel-powered RTS? And is it online anywhere?
-F.
The one we have at GU is standard transit 2X2 padded seating. They are silent and the acceleration is blazing quick. You can see them at http://fuelcellbus.georgetown.edu/
The RTS we have on campus is the 1998 IFC.
Wayne
Yes, Virginia Tech has a lot going for them, especially with Blacksburg Transit and the Smart Road nearby; by a good program, did you mean with fuel testing or transit systems? Not sure I follow you. I do know they tested a New Flyer Invero before they decided on regular LFs for their latest order. You should see them; these are some of the best-looking New Flyers in the country.
Also, I got an update on their Flxible Metros; they are currently being "mothballed" due to the fact they are required to have a 100% wheelchair-accessible fleet in regular service. They are holding on to the Flxes for a while for football shuttles, etc. but they basically sit around the garage these days. I don't see why they couldn't have just retrofitted or rehabbed these coaches; it would have saved them a ton of money, but they are in a college town.
-F.
This is true; WMATA spares no expenses in advertising...they love to stay within the public mind. Hopefully whatever they do will be a good move, and not bring regular service to a halt.
-F.
WMATA will name the Landover Maintenance and Training center after the late Carmen Turner. She was WMATA's fourth general manager and the first african-american and woman to be a WMATA general manager. She passed in the early or mid 90s (I don't remember exactly when).
The facility will be henceforth known as the "Carmen E. Turner Maintenence and Training Facility. The facility was bought about three years ago. It used to belong to Hechinger, and was vacant after went out of business, until WMATA bought it. It is located on Pennsy Drive, across from the Landover Garage. There will be an official ceremony to dedicate the facility at a later date.
Why are some of Metro's Flx metro-B's (the 87-8900's) not refurbished? Plus, would it be a good idea to replace the Gulton signs on the 93-9400's and the old Vultrons on the older Metro-B's with the Luminator Horizon signs? Im spoiled by the bright signs on the C40LF's and the UM-Shuttle Gilligs.
GO TERPS! DUKE IS GOING DOWN TOMORROW!!
Remember, just because the odd 8700-8800-8900 Flxible is still in the old paint scheme does not necessarily mean that it has not been refurbished. WMATA began refurbishing earlier Flxible Metros a good while before they introduced the new scheme; perhaps some of the buses in question are indeed refurbished (say in 1996 or early 1997) but do not appear that way because they still have the older scheme. This explains why virtually all of the 9200s still wear the classic Metrobus colors.
Regarding the destination signs on older Flxibles, I don't really see any reason to replace them. Why spend all that money on buses that will probably be gone (sad though it may be) in the next 5-6 years? Plus, the older signs (especially the first-generation vertical scroll Vultrons on the first Metros) may not be the prettiest, but they get the job done - plus I like the variety they afford to the fleet. That Gultan-Luminator "split" sign seen on the 9300-9400s and 9600 Orion Vs might be one of my all-time favorite display implements.
...just to add-on here. I moved here about a year before WMATA started with the new paint scheme and my thoughts is that the Rehabbed METRO-B's in the old paint scheme are likely to be those that have the extra pair (high mounted) turn indicators on the rear.
Wayne
Yes, that is true. I recall seeing 8912 sitting between the Smithsonian and Chinatown, and a plaque was on the front of the bus stating that it was refurbished and said something about it being former coach no. 195...not sure what that means. I like the fact that the 9200s are still in original colors; they just look better that way.
And yes, it is very sad that we may lose those in just a few years. Let's enjoy them while we still can.
-F.
Actually that means that it was Bus #195 to be rehabbed!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
When WMATA decided to refurbish all of their buses, they decided to do it in about 1992 and 93. The 9200s were the first to berehabbed, although a lot of them don't look like they were. All of the 9200s and up were up. Alot of the 8700-8900s were refurbished, and I guess at one point WMATA decided it would not be feasible to rehab the rest of the 87-89s, since they were due to be retired and the fact that also in either the late 90s or early 00s, they decided to keep buses only up to 15 years, then retire them, which the 8700s-8900s are. The 8700s-8900s are around that age of being retired this year and the 9200s were scheduled to be retired next year. But because WMATA now has financial problems, alot of the Flxibles will stay around a little longer. The last of WMATA Flxibles, the 4000s-4100s were supposed to be retired around 2010. Hopefully they will stay around past 2010, and maybe, hopefully someone at MCI and/or Dina have the commonsense to bring these buses back, either in high floor or low floor.
To the signs, they really don't need replacing. I remember when they rehabbed the signs on the 9200s, when they were rehabbed, they were as bright as some of the destination signs on the Metro Ds and Es.
To add, any bus rehabbed by WMATA will have a sticker in the right side of the bus under the windshield stating that it was rehabbed.
Today I decided to go to Roosevelt Field Mall in Garden City.I brought my lunch first in Lower Manhattan before I headed to Jamaica Center.There I took the N4,Orion CNG #343 to Freeport then took the new N43 Orion diesel #646.Yep,646.The same bus I was on on Monday when I took the N21 from Glen Cove-Great Neck with the crazy female driver who literally zipped through the street's and curve's like a speed demon.The 43 was taking a detour,following the N40 to Uniondale Av then going along it's regular route to Roosevelt Field.They said that there's a delay in implementing service on the Brookside Av. portion of the route thus the detour.My guess is LIBus hasn't fully decided which street's the bus stops were gonna be on just yet so they put the new sign's along another existing bus route,the N40.
Here's a laugher,to me anyway,and another example of people not reading the damn destination signs.While going along the N40 route,3 people got on and thought they were on the N40 and going to Hempstead. They got a scare when the bus made a right on Uniondale Av and they all had no idea what was going on and one of them said "I've never seen a 43 pass by before." Hello! Customer Service Notice's have been on the bus for like 2-3 weeks before 1/5/03,they obviously never bothered to read them.And the bus is 12 days old.This goes to show just how dumb people really are. The bus just showed up,they never even bothered to look at the dest. sign,got on thinking they were going to Hempstead and then its bitchin and moanin all over again. -sighs- I got one message for them:READ THE DEST. SIGNS AND THE BUS STOP SIGNS!!!
Those 1992 Orion diesels (606-656) are VERY fast. I recall riding 649 some years back on the N20 and it remains as one of the fastest buses I ever rode.
I should correct myself when it comes to the speed of a given bus model. The 1992 LIBus and 1993 NYCT Orions are essentially the same bus (prior to NYCT repowering that is). They were both euipped the same power train (DD6V92TA engine, with an Allison V731 tranny...i think--Trevor can help there) and are capable of achieving the same speeds. The difference is that all NYCT's local buses are governed to acheive lower top speeds (40-45MPH) than comparable buses from other agencies. For other examples, compare Green Lines Orions and NYCT's 1999 Orions (6000's) or GBL's 1985/86 RTS's and NYCT's 4000's. The Brooklynites on this board can surely attest to seeing Q35 buses passing cars and dollar vans along Flatbush Ave.
Mark
How about the Race Q44 vs QBX1 showdown on the Whitestone Bridge?
The QSC Buses win all the time in this race! :)
What a surprise! They always drive more recklessly anyway! : D
Thanks for the report.
How many people were on the 43 who wanted to go up Uniondale Ave.?
CG
A grand total of...zero.I was the only one.Those three that got on got off right after the bus turned onto Uniondale Av. After that,we got only two people untill we got to NCC,there we picked up a few more and on to Roosevelt Field we went. While going along Uniondale,I saw a 43 going the other way toward Freeport and must've counted about 7 or 8 people on that bus.
I was in Roosevelt Field today too. Took the 12:55pm N27 out of Glen Cove, and spent between 1:40 and 3:10pm in the mall, before heading back up to the hills on 141.
Holy crap!! I got there at 3:10!!! We probably saw each other and didn't know since we've never met before!
I was in Roosevelt Field today too. Took the 12:55pm N27 323 out of Glen Cove, and spent between 1:40 and 3:10pm in the mall, before heading back up to the hills on 141.
This evening I spotted an RTS with FDNY logos parked outside of Engine Company 72's quarters in the Throgs Neck section of the Bronx. I only got a quick glance of it from my car but by the looks of it I'd say it was definitely an ex-NYCTA bus. Anyone have any information on the bus and what it is used for?
The only thing I can tell you about this bus is that is long-tme FLA bus PA1384. I don't know what it is specifically used for but I do know appears all over the city.
Mark
The MTA New York City Bus Roster & The Green Bus Lines Roster has been update at TransiTALK. Also we've added in a up-to-date Queens Surface Roster.
Click Here
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
A NOTE ON #7518
I saw it yesterday going southbound on the Van Wyck. It looks like they did not take off all of the Rear Wrap Ad,There was some left right by the rear sign and also have a new ad but like more regular size. Also this bus don't have depot stickers and a farebox and it's not repowered.
Infront of #7518 was anouther RTS and I thinking it was anouther 70xx or a 75xx it was repainted and repowered. I only had a good look of #7518
Wait, for Fresh Pond's fleet, the Transitalk roster and the Urban Transit club roster are different. This is confusing me. Which one shows the correct FP fleet?
Trevor's roster is MORE accurate! Trust me!
Ray
It is a very difficult task to know where each particular bus is where from day to day. I can assure you that both Transit Talk and UTC do their very best to keep it accurate but to expect 100% accuracy from both sources is asking a bit much.
Your site is great, Trevor - a wealth of information and cool photos. Thanks!
Any chance we'll be seeing updated Triboro, N.Y. Bus and MTA L.I. Bus rosters in the future?
Jim D.
Oh Yes!
Coming Up for TransiTALK rosters are......
New York Bus Service
Triboro Coach
LI Bus
NYC Subway
WMATA
SEPTA
Cleveland RTA
Los Angeles MTA
Baltimore MTA
Chicago TA
Detorit DOT
and probably a few more!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
This bus is now a local bus BUT is the sdie destination sign still on top or it's back to the rest of the Orions...on the lower side of the window?
Ray
The side destintion sign is still on the top I saw it there yesterday at the CS depot along with soft seater 122. 122 still has QV stickers on both sides of it. Also 106 has 1 QV sticker on the left side and 1 CS sticker on the right sid.e Identity crisis? lol.
Any here know of a bus sims forpc in dev.
that will be so cool.
Any here know of a bus sims forpc in dev.
Not aware of any.
Have you heard something?
JD
Traffic Giant
Includes Buses, Light Rail (Trams), Heavy Rail (commuter Trains), mag lev & Hanging Trains.
Available on e-bay and amazon.co.uk
On Thursday, 1/17, I took the Liberty Lines Express bus into Manhattan.
The bus entered the borough by the Triboro Bridge. As the bus was making the turn onto the ramp into the toll plaza, I spotted a bus that was parked in front of the "TBA" offices located at the bottom of the ramp.
This bus looked a lot like the bus that was nicknamed "995" on the board. It had its doors open as if it was on display.
The strange part was that this bus had a different livery. It was hard to tell from the distance and the speed my bus was going. It almost looked like the bus was in blue and gold Westchester Bee Line colors. But that would be an impossibility, since the bus also had a rather large MTA "pac-man" logo on its under side. Perhaps it was in Long Island Bus colors (blue and orange)? It was definitely blue and some other color - a goldish, redish color.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there knew what the bus was doing there. Especially considering it looked like the same model type as 995 was. As far as I know, there are no other such busses running around the area.
Thanks.
The bus you saw was Bridges and Tunnels Bus 956. If I'm not mistaking, that bus came from Chicago somewhere?
I do have a pic of that bus-if you would like it, email me and place in the subject line B and T 956.
I think 995 went back to Nova for remodifications and then the plant shut down.
#956 B and T
Yes, B & T #956 is an ex-Chicago Transit Authority unit...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
[I think 995 went back to Nova for remodifications and then the plant shut down.]
995 was at the Nova plant in St. Eustache, north of Montreal, when the Motor Bus Society visited about a year and a half back. That plant has not shut down; it is still producing many Nova LFS's, mostly for operators in Quebec Province (following completion of the Chicago order) and for some U.S. private operators like Disney World.
I suspect the plant shut down you refer to is the U.S. assembly plant Nova had, perhaps in the Schenectedy area. As has been posted on BusTalk in the past, Nova is no longer marketing the LFS for the U.S. market.
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After attending the thilling Duke-MD game at Comcast Center (which my voice is now trying to recover from) and having a blast rushing the court at the end of the game, I again ended up waiting 20+ minutes for a shuttle bus back to our parking lot. The Shuttle-UM needs to put more buses on that suttle route. They have plenty of Thomases and Flxibles to use for the shuttle (The reason I say this is because they only use the 35' Gilligs on this shuttle).
My suggestion is this: run more buses! In addition to that, can't the university pay Metro a stipend to borrow a few NABI's or Neoplans? It would certainly help the crowding on the Shuttle -UM buses.
I would say that legal issues prevent this. It would be one thing if Metro ran the shuttles directly, but if they received payment from the University, then it would probably be considered a charter operation - and it's not legal to use buses purchased with federal $$ for charter purposes.
If it were a regularly-scheduled route run by Metro under contract to U-Md, then it would probably be passable, but the sporadic nature of the service would likely pose a legal challenge.
Here's a related question: Who pays for the shuttles to operate? Maybe the shortage of shuttles comes not from lack of planning at Shuttle-UM, but by the fact that the department who requested the shuttle buses did not provide enough money for more buses.
Here at the University of Michigan, we run shuttles on Football Saturdays, but they are technically charter trips and the cost to operate them does not come out of the transportation operating budget. If it were up to us, we'd probably run five buses on the shuttles, but the Athletics department (I think they fund it) only provides money enough for three or sometimes four buses. The situation with Shuttle-UM is probably similar.
As for why Shuttle-UM uses 35-foot buses when they could be bursting the seams on 40-footers, I don't know what to tell you. On our charters, it's totally up to the driver which bus to use - though the football team always requests Flxibles! They know their football and their buses!
I know you guys are going to have different answers [of course], I'm asking you what you think is the slowest route is for each depot. Here's what I think.
FP- Q55
FB- B41
UP- B1
JG- B63
ENY- Q24
HP- M14
126- M15
MV- M101
MJQ- M96
QV- haven't rode too many QV routes a lot so I can't answer this one
JAM- Q17
CS- Q32
MCH- BX19
KB- BX36
GH- BX22
AMS- M104
CAS- S44
YUK- S61
Out of FP actually the Q58 is the slowest and ENY it would be the Q56.
Oh don't worry, the Q56 for ENY takes 2nd place in my list. Q58 is slow [takes 2nd place for FP] but when I rode the 58, it wasn't as slow & as bad as the Q55 and the 58's run via Horace Harding saved it from being dead last.
Take out the Fordham Road / Pelham Pkwy stretch ill say the Bx 4 is slower than the Bx22 since its mostly under the El.
The Q 56 is the slowest ENY route ( personal driving exp ).
A lot of seniors ,double parkers and the fact that the stops do require the bus to pull to the curb and merge back to the single lane under the El.
What about the BX40/42? It's *SCHEDULED* to take 70 minutes from end to end. I DO however agree that the BX22 is slow as HELL, and is torture to have to take daily. ( Double Frown)
The Q55 is the slowest to me. The Q58 comes in a close second.
And what makes the Q58 even worst is the fact that its not possible to give it limited service, even if it is the busiest FP route. As soon as a limited touchs Fresh Pond Road it will go nowhere, believe me. Ridgewood absolutely kills the possibility of limiteds, there is not a single wide street here, not even one. The Q55 is just bad period, most Ridgewood residents know not to drive on Myrtle. Av. or Fresh Pond Road, its just as bad as places like Jamaica Center.
Also I would say that the Q24 is the worst, and the Q56 comes in a very close second.
The Q24 can open up on Atlantic. It depends on the traffic conditions. I usually ride the Q24 from Jamaica to Bway Jct instead of taking the J train.
Drivers I've had on the Q24 NEVER took advantage of gaining speed on Atlantic Av. Most of the time the roads were open but didn't take full advantage & I rode it towards Jamaica [never toward Broadway Junction].
Hated timepoints for the Q 24 to Jamaica . If the B/O follows it to a tee ( when i drove it ). Its haul ass to Woodhaven or Lefferts then slow city to 165 .
It was something like 12 min just for 4 stops . VanWick to the Disp. hanging out at the layover near Parsons.
Eny bound was much better.
Oh, I ride the Bx19 every day, and there are times when it's very slow due to traffic, passengers, double-perkers, running under the White Plains Line El, etc. but there are also times when the Bx19 runs rather quickly, like early AM and late nights, even some holidays. I know this, since I see it all the time, I live right in front of the Bx19 line.
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Hmmm, to tell you the slowest route in the Queens Division and Brooklyn Division Depots:
QV: Q88, a long route like this should have limited service.
JA: Q5, I'm only saying this because of rush hours where Archer Av. will really slow it down before it can even makes it to Merrick Blvd..
CS: Q44, Two words, insane traffic.
FP: Q55, Horrible, just horrible.
ENY: Q24.
FLA: B41, it slows down a lot going towards Downtown Bklyn.
JG: B35, Church Av.
UP: B3
Believe me, the Q17 is FAR WORSE than the Q5. They should consider 7 day a week LTD stop service on the 17 but the problem is the weekdays, when a lot of buses are needed for the Q4, Q5 and Q85 for locat and limited service. Q44 has improved greatly since becoming a limited and the rides I had on it were good; at Jamaica until it turn onto Queens Blvd is slow & by Flushing and going north it does slow down considerably so it takes 2nd place behind the Q32.
Q55 is *DEAD LAST* on my list too [as you saw] with the Q58 taking a very close second. For Brooklyn, we agree on practically all depots taking the 'award' for slowest route so we know what we're talking about for Brooklyn. I say the B1 is worse than the B3. The 1 has to deal with 86 St's moderate to heavy traffic, runs under the el, Bay Ridge Av is kind of narrow to gain decent speed and BB Av a lot of passengers head toward Kingsboro, slowing things down.
I would tend to agree that the Q17 takes top honors when it comes to being slow in Jamaica depot. Traffic is always a nightmare in the Flushing area. However, the Q3 comes in a close second, mainly because of the airport traffic which delays the line by up to 30 minutes alot of times.
In Q.V. the Q88 would probably take top honors followed by the Q46.
Casey Stengel's Q44 wins top dog in the category.
For Brooklyn:
The B41 in Flatbush wins by a landslide.
Ulmer Park's B6 takes the prize.
Gleason's B35 tops that depot's list for running slow.
ENY Q24 probably wins but the B60 is up there also. Can't say about Fresh Pond but probably the Q55.
BIG AL
1. Brooklyn Division- Obviously I ranked this the highest because this is all I talk about(even though its the king of hand-downs).
2. Queens Division-I ranked this second because I also have good interest in the Queens Division routes(Go Q46!!).
3. Manhattan Division- This falls in the middle, although I don't ride the Manhattan Division routes that much, I still think their routes are interesting.
4. Staten Island Division- I haven't been to SI too much, but their routes travel at a fast pace, also the fleets over there are interesting.
5. Bronx Division- No offence to you Bronx buffs, but besides seeing Artics, I have almost no interest in what happens over there. Their routes are boring, and its easy to get lost over there. However the Bx12 and Bx29 are decent though.
Tell me what you guys think.
Ok, here's my pick.
1. Brooklyn division- come on its my home borough and ditto to what you said.
2. Queens division- I like their LTD services, especially the Q44. Some routes need improvement though like the Q56.
3. Staten Island division- Fast paced bus routes but the infrequency killed the chance for it to come in 2nd place.
4. Bronx division- Love the artics but I don't do too much riding up there but starting to take more trips up there lately in the past months.
5. Manhattan division- Best acceleratng buses & I like the crosstown buses but the traffic and crowds basically shoots down most chances of gaining good speed. Also, can be very time consuming on the north-south routes. Drivers don't take advantage of speed on open roads as well.
For me:
1-Queens
2-Bronx
3-Staten Island
4-Brooklyn
5-Manhattan
Speed is a big thing for me which is why Manhattan ranks dead last with me. Years ago when I considered becoming a B/O in NYC... I knew I wanted to be with TA in Queens. My thoughts is that whereever, I'd be driving I want to be able to get that bus to reach it's top gear a few times. If I were to become a B/O today.. I wouldn't even want to be with NYCTA at all. My first choice would be WMATA. NJTransit also comes to mind.
Wayne
You could always go apply for Green Bus Lines and drive the Q21, its every 72 mnutes lots of break and you could fly down Cross Bay Blvd ;-). Seriously, I'm into speed too & I ranked Manhattan dead last too b/c of heavy traffic & crowds and if I were to become a B/O I'd drive the Brooklyn or Queens division. On most trips I've been on Jamaica depot bus routes & shuttle buses, those drivers REALLY drive good.
Yes, I agree. If I were a B/O in Queens... I'd want to have a JAM first and QV, CS not far behind. I grew up in The Bronx and as a teen when I started venturing out into TA territory... I used to ride the subway/bus in several different "loops". One that I enjoyed was I'd take the A train to High Street and catch the B57 which was a good ride because it didn't stop much. Then I'd take the Q58 (then B58) to Main Street and catch the QBx1 back to The Bronx. The only thing about that run I didn't like was that at the time FP had lots of 7000 series Flxibles and these were my least favorite NYCTA buses.
Wayne
If I were a B/O in Queens, I'd choose JAM, CS, QV in that order. Three routes I'd drive [one for each depot], Here's the routes I hope I would get assigned to do and would love to drive: JAM-Q5, CS-Q44, QV-Q43.
From JAM - I'd take any of their routes except the Q42 and Q3. At QV it would be the Q1, Q36, Q46 and Q88. At CS I'd choose the Q12, Q27, and Q28.
Wayne
Some more routes I would drive for each depot in Queens.
JAM-Q17,Q77. CS-Q12,Q27. QV-Q1,Q36
Let me extend this to Brooklyn, since it is my home base. I wouldn't really like to drive short routes, its boring IMO.
FB- anything except the B2 and B31. FP-B38,Q54,Q58. UP-B3,B6,B36. JG-B8,B37,B68. ENY-B15[I'd like the challenge],B60,B82.
I think I would love to drive the B15(JFK) as well. Here are my others:(Bklyn divsion)
FLA: All except the B2/31
ENY: All except the B25,42,45 and maybe the B82
JG: All except the B71,77
UP: All
FP: All
For FP i would drive for everything except Q58, Q55, and B20.
BLX is still in the mix. Seeing that many postings on this matter want speed and open road, let BLX relate a story. BLX the b/o from Flushing, very early 80's, probably a 7000 bus. On Q12, pm rush hour. Leave Main St. subway with a good load. Northern Blvd. curb lane going east 'no standing 4-7pm'. BLX taking advantage and using curb lane when possible. Rolling down Northern at a good clip. Those buses had quick doors and you could turn off the interlock, when rear door shut, give it gas. Many times, BLX (and others) used interlock as brake, had foot on gas. When interlock goes off, foot already on gas. Not safe, but back then, interlock held the bus 99.9%. In fact, don't remember hearing anytime when interlock gave. New buses, don't ever try this. BLX rolls into Douglaston/Little Neck, that old bus is rocking. Remember, those buses made alot of noise on those potholed streets. An old lady in the rear yells up front 'you got here in 12 minutes'. Thinking BLX was getting complimented replied, 'no, it's more like 18 minutes'. She says, 'you are crazy!, that's was the worst ride I evere had, I'm going to report you!' Needless to say, BLX never heard anything more on this incident. Always enjoyed rolling at a good speed. Late pm, last run on Q13, also early 80's. Leave Fort Totten 5-7 minutes late, roar down Northern to Flushing subway and still get there 5-7 minutes early. It's around 1am. BLX stopped by 'hawk' patrol dispatcher. BLX was 'hot'. Explained that BLX left the fort 5 minues late and there is no one out there going into the subway. Dispatcher said, 'one day, you'll be a dispatcher and understand'. Didn't get a violation. BLX still left late other end on those late pm trips and still got to subway 'hot'. Oh, well, if I bored some of you, sorry.
BLX - You didn't bore me at all. In fact, thanks for sharing that experience. I do remember that those Flxible new-looks had quick doors. I also recall the 3rd & 4th generation GM new-looks also having quick doors. You probably remember that FLU used to have 6200-6229. I do remember many B/O would use the rear door to hold the bus as well them actually pressing accelerator when before the rear closed/locked and the bus would to get a quicker. Auto enthusiasts do a similar thing referred to as "torquing" where they hold the brake, press the gas to rev up the engine (on automatics) for a quicker launch. ...and of course if the cars has a manual tranny they just rev the engine, drop the clutch and the fun is on.
Wayne
Hey BLX, I haven't seen you here in a while. I don't think you're story is boring. You shouldn't have to take that crap from an old lady like that. If she thinks it takes too long she should just walk. I hate people like that, that don't appreciate $hit. I understand that the B/O's must put passager safety into some consideration, they just can't go as fast as they want risking an accident. You should have told her off.
Anywayz, I don't mind seeing more of your stories here, I think they're interesting. I'm sure others here wouldn't mind.
Mentioning the 7000's out of CS(FLU) brings back memories of when I to John Bowne(82-85) and used to get them often(if not that then a 56/5700)and in the rearest occurance 6204 which for some reason was never sent to JAM like the rest of the 6200's.
BLX, don't worry your stories are not boring to me [or anyone here at Bustalk for that matter], good to hear from you again. Very interesting story, too bad bus drivers don't go as fast as they used to in the past but the MTA's #1 goal is safety now and I respect that. However, slowing service is not really the way to go & is very irritating these days.
I believe that lady would complain no matter how you drove that night. Maybe she didn't like the bus noise. Maybe in the back of the bus she felt every pothole. As long as she didn't call downtown, No Problem.
Yeasterday my mother asked me what would happen to her after the TA got rid of the Tokens. She uses Acc-A-Ride and get Transitchek from her job. She trades them in for token and pay them that way. Well since Acc-A-Ride can't take MC's and you can't trade Transitchek in for cash, my mother is out of luck with them. Did anyone here for any plains for Acc-A-Ride to get MetroCards Fair Boxes, or of any plane for that matter.
Thanks for the help if anyone can.
Robert
Your Mother should ask Acc-A-Ride. Dumb answer I know. But only they can answer your question.
Who remembers when the entire fleet used to get chains on the rear tires in winter weather - I can still hear the sound. I notice that the artics are using something similar in ice/snow conditions.
I remember the older GMC buses on Boston's MBTA getting chains in the winter. And, yes, I still remember that sound!
JD
For some reason in my head I remember seeing years ago an old Grumman with Batwings (or something similar) cant recall if it was in NYC or somewhere else. Maybe I am just picturing it in my mind and it never happened?
Anyone remember this? Or am I in the bus fan mental ward??
There was ONE Grumman 870 with Batwings in New York City....number 631.
"There was ONE Grumman 870 with Batwings in New York City....number 631."
Wasn't there a Flxible New Look with batwings ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Bus #7753 was the Flxible with Bus-O-Rama's.The rest looked like Flxible versions of Toronto's New Look GM's and Flyer 701's.
Yes...7753 was its number. I'd say from the looks of that entire series of buses, they were all built with the intention of adding Batwings (i.e., no standee windows) but the company making the Batwings went out of business between the time the buses were ordered and delivered.
Do anybody have a pic of 631?
Now I bet there was a 1981 GM RTS with batwings!!!! :)
Copy and paste this link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BUS-O-RAMA
You`ll see it on the opening page.
Mdlbigcat.
You`ll see it on the opening page.
Cool! They look better than I thought they would.
Full-bus advertising 'wraps' have nothing on the Batwings. Somebody should bring them back. They are so retro.
Jim D.
LOVE the pic of 631 with the Sugar Babies ads. I agree; they look SO much better than a wrap. While wraps may look okay on Gilligs and New Flyers, they do NOTHING for ADBs such as Flx Metros and the RTS. Those would look a lot more attractive with Bus-O-Ramas.
On that note, could you imagine Batwings on a New Flyer or Orion? :)
-F.
The older RTS buses seem to be all over the city many have been repowered - It appears to me that there are less newer buses on the streets of Manhattan than there usesd to be - Have there been a lot of transfers lately?
SPECIFICS
5th Avenue routes (EXCEPT m1), Q32, Lexington Ave & 3rd Ave, 1st & 2nd Ave, York Ave.
What is the expected lifespan on repowered buses?
Manhattan is getting new artics right now. As for the repowers, the 1990/1991, 1993 TMC's and the 1993 Orions recieved repowers. NOTE: NOT ALL OF THE 1990/1991 TMC'S AND THE 1993 ORIONS ARE REPOWERED. They were repowered to give the buses longer life and to emit cleaner air from the engines. I don't know exactly but I'm going to guess 8-10 years.
What a good movie to look at old cars, taxis, and buses!
Just saw it on cable again today - A lot of action
I'm going to be away for a short time. I will not responmd to any subjects. Hope to be back soon. Keep this site going, it's great as arre all the you handles. Take care for now.
I past by Landover this morning only to see that some of Neoplan artics aren't there. Now I cannot confirm this, but I think that some of the Neoplans may have been sent to their respective garages(either Bladensburg and/or Montgomery) ready for service. If you haven't gotten a MANN pic, GET IT ASAP. I wasn't planning a bus trip this week, but things may have changed (in other words, it BETTER NOT SNOW). More later.
Time to take a trip to Montgomery tommorow (no school)
So the MANs are still running and getting ready to go "Bye bye" this week? Get some pics and take some fan trips, for goodness sake!
-F.
I've swung by Montgomery depot today, NO NEOPLANS :( however, most, if not all of the MANs were parked there. I've also seen the MAN's parked there for the past few weeks everytime I past by. Montgomery's MANs are out of service?
I think Montgomery's are still at Landover. It looks like Montgomery will get 8 Neoplans and Bladensburg getting the other 13. I knew it would have fallen somewhere along those lines, with Bladensburg getting a majority of them.
I am in the preliminary stages of a possible busfan trip, most likely this July, after the 4th of July, most likely during the middle or the end of July. I want it to be during the weekday as I would like to ride some of the routes, that don't run on the weekends, such as the J4, B11 to name a few. I plan the trip to start at Union Station at about 10am or 11am. This would be an open bus trip for any busfan to attend and you don't have to live in the DC area. If this trip is successful, then there maybe another one, this one with Baltimore bus riders, via the B30, but right now this one this year takes precedence. Tell me what you think.
Wes E. Samuels(I would tell you my middle name but I would have to kill you) :-)
That would be great! I'd be up for it. I know the one we had scheduled was postponed due to our schedules not meshing, but that's not a problem at all. July would be a nice WARM time to take some trips. The one thing about the J4 and B11 is that they are peak hour services, so they'd have to be ridden in the PM rush, most likely. I'm all for it though!
That is one of the reason's why I mentioned something now, so we can get all of our schedules in line. The last one I couldn't as I couldn't get coverage for my store and weekends off was up in the air.
Hopefully we can get alot of people on this trip.
Yeah, I bet we can. It sounds like already a handful of people are interested.
I hope we can get that driver I had on the J4 when I took a bus trip in the summer. Also I hope he has a bus with an announcement system that works. Boy when he found out that announcement system worked, man he had a ball. If I had time I would have taken the trip back, just to hear how much fun he was going to have with that thing. I am sure the riders on that trip back to Bethesda were surely entertained.
I'm game for that. Hopefully I would be able to get a day off of work because I plan to get a job this summer.
I am not exactly sure when in July it will be. I am probably aiming for a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, but it is in the early preliminary planning stages. I will let everyone know the exact details in the coming months.
Count me in!
Wayne
Cool. Hopefully if WMATA is still testing the fuel cell bus (they may have stopped by this time) and they post what route it is on. Then that will be one bus we can ride, along with a Neoplan artic, C40LF, hopefully a 2460 series.
I want to ride routes with FLXIBLES!!! Is this possible, and which routes will these be? Are there any scenic routes with them? Also, are there specific routes where they use the 9200s? Let me know; Metros are a very important part of the WMATA experience!
-F.
Fred,
The METRO's are all over, but some routes do seem to have more than others. Do you have a preference of the 92XX series you'd like to find. The lower 9200 are the 40102-6T-1 which the DD 6V-92TA/Allsion combo. Most of the upper 92XX series are 40096-6C-1, with Cummins L-10/Voith.
Wayne
I'll try to save a vacation day or 2 from work and ride around with you guys. My son lives in Beltsville so I can "crash" at his place so I don't have to drive all the way home the same day. (I live outside of Philly , so it's not a real big deal to drive home the same day)
Let me know hen you firm up on the date.
Chuck Greene
Great! The more the merrier.
It's "Ecomat", isn't it? LOL! Wes, that sounds great! I'd LOVE to go....so how does everyone get there? Are you chartering a bus, or do we all find our own way to travel? If I drive up, I'm taking the Red Line in...I always avoid the Beltway if possible. So what wil we be doing...meet up for lunch or dinner? Ride buses? Hit museums? Visit one of the WMATA garages? Check out their historical fleet?
Keep us updated on this, and I will plan ahead to be there!
-F.
It will just be a regular bus ride, I hope to hit some routes of interest and ride some particular buses. I have a route in mind and in fact will test it out next week, when I am on vacation. I will see how it goes and figure if changes need to be made.
Currently if you log on to the Yahoo Group entitled "Bus-O-Rama" a black and white picture of #631 appears.
http://groups.yahoo.com/groupBUS-O-RAMA/?yguid=29538435
If the link doesn't work, then go to Yahoo.com - go to groups and go into the BUS-O-RAMA group.
Does anyone know how many MAN's are still running or were still running at the end.
I don't know excatly, but I'd say about 10-20. W.E.S., 1C/Ballston and WMATAGMOGAH may have an exact number. One thing I can say is that their days are very much numbered.
Wayne
I'd say that's a good number, 10-20. Its been about a month or so since I've been anywhere around here where I'd find them. The best place to check would probably be Silver Spring as they'd be used on the J lines, the 70's or the Z routes.
The REAL best place is the X2 Line.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I agree. I live nearby to the Silver Spring Metro station and I see them quite often on the J2 and Z routes. I saw one on the Q2 as well recently. Actually I think Silver Spring is the best place to find any of WMATA buses with a few exceptions like the Orion II and 30 & 35 foot Metro-B.
Wayne
I forgot about the Q2. When I went to Montgomery Collge from '89-'91, I used to ride on a MAN artic here and there on that line.
Trevor also mentioned the X2, which is mainly an all artic route that runs really often, which I also forgot! Old age sinking in!
Silver Spring definitely has a lot of bus viewing opportunities as well as anywhere around I and K St. in DC where you'd see the X2 artics as well as the Orion VI on the 38B and the New Flyer C40LF on the D lines and 80 and a possible Orion V 4309 (only Orion with the Orange destination sign) sighting on the 30's line.
Oh yes, I forgot about the X2. I see plenty of C40LF's on thew X2 as well.
Wayne
I was just curious as they have been selling them off in big bunches. The last couple of sales.
They were still running as of last Friday. I can't say which ones are running Montgomery, but from Bladensburg the following were still running and they are 5101, 5106, 5116, 5119(in new paint scheme), 5123
and 5121. 5107 was running from Bladensburg up until this fall. I am not sure if this bus is running up at Montgomery or has been taken out of service.
The 5104,5105,5109,5111,5113,5126,5127,5130,5131 and 5133 all went up for sale in the July 17, 2002 bid.
I found out that the new WMATA Roadeo bus is 6649. You can see the back of it sticking out in the lot at Landover Division.
That is what the number of this bus is. I have past by Landover on a number of occasions and seen it, but couldn't figure what bus that was. That would mean they are saving this bus (hopefully) for their antique fleet. I remember a long while back that 6666 had a banner on the top that said(can't totally remember), "Driven By A Rodeo Winner". It was in the 2nd paint scheme. I saw it on the T18. Thanks for the info.
BLX thanks all who find old war stories amusing. Seems my mind is floating around with incidents on Northern Blvd. One late night (also very early 80's), BLX is on the Q28, comes up to the IHOP (west bound side of Northern, forgot what street)and BLX sees one of Flushing's finest with the front end crashed into the cement wall alongside IHOP. You have to know the area to picture this in your mind. The accident just happened. Anyway, BLX gets off his bus to speak to the driver, who's sitting on a bench. He tells me he lost control. He also said he called a friend who lives a few blocks away to be a witness to the accident. The b/o will claim that a private sanitation truck (the green ones) was on the wrong side of the street with no headlights on causing the bus to crash. This was the story he thought up while still dazed from the collision. Anyone from NYC knows that those private sanitation trucks do alot of unsafe things rolling through commercial districts at 2 am. The quicker they finish, the quicker they go home. It's not unusual for those trucks to be on the wrong side of the street or making an outrageous u-turn. With his friends help, this b/o wasn't disciplined. Remember, years ago they didn't suspend/dismiss like now. In fact, you had to really have a bad accident to even go for a 'code', FFDT (fitness for duty tour). Okay, fellow transit buddies, BLX is back, but gone for the evening. Peace, out.
G1Ravage eats at that IHOP! It's on Northern Blvd. and 155th St. G1Ravage is glad he wasn't born yet, so he wouldn't be there when the accident happened.
Flxible was about 5 years old at the time, and never even HEARD of IHOP until he was about 18 years old. They didn't even start opening up in his hometown until he was about 22! Great place to munch, though; I have taken many a cheap date there in the past few years. :)
-F.
Wow BLX, how much stories do you have LOL? Each time you tell a bus story of the past, it is always interesting with lots of surprises. Whoa, that bus must of had some serious damage done if it crashed into a cement wall. Those private garbage trucks DO in fact make some outrageous turns, U trurns, drive on the wrong side of the road and so on.
IHOP, at Northern Blvd. I remember going their once with my parents.
I see those green garbage trucks are here too. I think those trucks come from the Waste Management Co. in Bushwick, Brooklyn.
[The b/o will claim that a private sanitation truck (the green ones) was on the wrong side of the street with no headlights on causing the bus to crash. This was the story he thought up while still dazed from the collision.]
It is patent dishonesty like this that has made the legal system in this country the mess that it is. This b/o should take full responsibility for his actions rather than lying through his teeth.
Nothing wrong with the war stories. We all have a few.
Shoot i have quite a few , thats why had to leave before they fired my ass , lol .
Most important, what type of bus was involved?
This is the list I got today by the QSC Bus Driver.
QSC MCI Classics OOS:
935 936 900 921 943 925 942 931 938 922 915 917 920 946 909 927 905 919.
I sorry if they are not in order
That would explain all the local Orion V's doing express routes. Yesterday I rode a RTS on the QM1a Express.
Did he mention why those MCI's are OOS??
Has anyone noticed not one 95x is out of service? The ex-Liberty Line Buses? Saw 951 and 952 tonight on Queens Blvd.
#952 QM1
Add 906; 916; 924; & 944
Thurston,
Why are all these MCI Classics out of service?
These MCI's are now on part of a "reserve fleet". We are trying to make the Orion's do more of the work, but keep these grand old ladies in reserve.
Thats a shame. Should really put the Orions on "reserve" since they are constantly breaking down! The NYCDOT should get an ass kicking for buying those pieces of crap.
Constantly breaking down???
Only once I ever saw them break down but other then that they good.
Yep...constantly. On average I see about 2-3 Orion V's a day awaiting rescue due to them breaking down. Hence, in the last two weeks I have been on a RTS on the express line. Seriously, you cannot tell me that those CNG Orion V's are good buses. The DOT took the cheap route with the privates.
You are somewhat right. Last Friday when I was at Queens Plaza(riding the Q67) I saw Orion #423 being towed along Queens Blvd. I rarely see this, but I just happened to be in the right place to witness it. And there was another time where I seen one of Triboro's Orions being towed along Woodhaven Blvd. Its too bad they stopped building the RTS. At least the Private Co. fleets are better than what Brooklyn is stuck with, *thinks to when the 3995 was spotted on the Q55 earlier* :(
They do break down alot - They have somekind of an alarm system that kicks in and they just stop dead. (Has happened to me 4 times) on Triboro.
Thank You! At least someone agrees with me that these Onions stink!
Every Monday-Friday I have ridden on a TMC RTS on the Q104 and boy are those buses awesome. I see nothing wrong with them-clean and fast. My question is why don't they use these TMC buses on the local lines on the weekends instead of delapidating those 500 Series Suburbans? And if you think I am kidding-take a look at the 3000 Series Onions that Triboro Roach has and get back to me. Trust me-if they stay on the local lines-they will be a mess.
Simply said: Orions AKA Onions are the shoeboxes with wheels!
#366 Q104
Probably because someone at QSC is screwing up royaly. I do not know what is going on there but its not good. Yesterday on the QM1a to Glen Oaks I rode MCI Classic #910. I do not know if that was one of the MCI's on "reserve" as Thurston posted, but it was absolutely disgusting. There must have been about a 1/2 inch of dust INSIDE ON THE SEATS!!!! The window in the back left side looked like it was about to fall off. Unreal. Queens Surface better get their act together and fast!! They are going downhill bigtime!
(quote)Thank You! At least someone agrees with me that these Onions stink!
Every Monday-Friday I have ridden on a TMC RTS on the Q104 and boy are those buses awesome. I see nothing wrong with them-clean and fast. My question is why don't they use these TMC buses on the local lines on the weekends instead of delapidating those 500 Series Suburbans? And if you think I am kidding-take a look at the 3000 Series Onions that Triboro Roach has and get back to me. Trust me-if they stay on the local lines-they will be a mess.
Simply said: Orions AKA Onions are the shoeboxes with wheels!(end quote)
I suppose after close to hitting the million mile mark, they deserve a little rest. Any chance of them getting some of that NYBS TLC?
Just as a note, the Orions are hitting their 3-4 year point. Are there any plans to give them an "SMS" style looking over, like NYCT does?
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Since I'm not in the mainteneance dept. I'm not up to speed on every thing/program that is going on.
However, in the current climate I tend to dought nycDOT is financing any major O/H projects.
What is "SMS"
SMS is Scheduled Maintenance System, which NYCT uses to decide when subway car components need to be replaced or rebuilt on a car class-wide basis. NYCT also has a scheduled overhaul program for buses -- they're overhauled at regular intervals (it changes every once in a while, but it's generally at 3-4, 6, 8-9, and 12 years).
David
Earlier, I passed by Quill at around 930PM -- still saw MCIs on the roof. IF they are only kept during the swing shifts, why would they still be there at that time???
The possibility is that they are stored there so some routes that have bi-directional express service all day don't have to run light to Manhattan saving time, costs, etc.
Since the Staten Island and Brooklyn Dispatchers at Quill go home around 6 PM, the only reason those buses would be on the roof at 9:30 PM is that they had broken down and were waiting for somebody from Maintenance to come and get them to take back to their "home" depot (and please, no hardware jokes!).
David
staten island has two home depots. yukon and castleton as well as two HOME DEPOTS. one on forest and one on targee. soon nyct promises to build in charleston.
If you can make a new bus route,
What would it be called,
Where would you put it,
Why would you think it's necessary,
and (only if you want to answer) how often would it run?
Q52 – Hillside Av-Myrtle Av-Richmond Hill, to Kennedy Airport-Far Rockaway via Hillside Av and Van Wyck Expwy (Service Rd)
Let me know what you think? This will serve Hillside Av west of the Van Wyck Expwy and Jamaica Hospital.
Ray
You have a route from Hillside and Myrtle to JFK Airport already.
Its the Q-10 Leffetts Blvd which is currently operated by Green Lines
In addition you will have the JFK Air Train in operation sometime this year which will duplicate your porposed route.
Thank You
True but this bus will run on Hillside Av and make a right onto Van Wyck Expwy service rd. An option for the Q10. I think it could work. What would you suppose?
Ray
New crosstown in Manhattan serving hospitals on 1st Ave. via 27th & 28th Streets, connecting to 28th Street Subway stations.
Arti
Arti,
No new crosstown route is needed. If the TA were to extend the M-21 to 34th Street then passengers can transfer to the M-16 or the M-34 which will serve the Herald Square area this will provide sufficent service.
Since 28th and either 27th or 29th are residential streets the NIBY will be screaming loudly.
Thank You
«No new crosstown route is needed. If the TA were to extend the M-21 to 34th Street then passengers can transfer to the M-16 or the M-34 which will serve the Herald Square area this will provide sufficent service. »
It will still remain a 2 fare zone for anyone taking the subway.
Arti
«Since 28th and either 27th or 29th are residential streets the NIBY will be screaming loudly. »
There's a NYC bus route on 26th Street. Also starting from Madison it's commercial. There are also projects, so I doubt those people woud care.
Arti
Not needed plus the close proximity at 23 St and 34 St would make it useless. Lower Manhattan could use a crosstown bus but anything north of Houston is NOT needed.
Would you say that M50 is also unneeded?
Arti
Bx23- Bronx Park East (past Pelham Parkway), Burke Avenue, Baychester Avenue, E 233 Street, Seton Avenue/Mundy Lane, Pitman Avenue/Sandford Blvd(W 6th Street), Mundy Lane/South 11th Avenue. Mt Vernon shouldn't mind much as the route wouldn't really go to far from the Bronx/Westchester line, just border it. Plus the Bx16 can send more buses to Pelham on the Weekends.
Bx24- White Plains Road(from Birchall Avenue/Bronx Park East/Sagamore Street), Boston Road (from White Plains Road), Boston Post Road(route will pass 2 streets named Pelham Parkway, on in the Bronx, the other in Pelham, few blocks from Bx16 terminal)
(if Mt Vernon NIMBYS can be convinced, if not just introduce LIMITED Bx39 service instead)
Bx37(private bus company non MTA) rush hours only - White Plains Road/West 1st Street LIMITED. From White Plains Road/Bronx River Avenue, Clasons Point to W 1st Gramatan Avenue Mt Vernon
making LIMITED stops Randall Avenue and E 177 Street and between E 177 Street and E 241 Street
Bx9- Extension to Getty Square Yonkers weekdays only (alternating buses until 5:00, then all to Yonkers until 8:00)
Albany Av in Brooklyn could use a north/south bus. It would be beneficial because there is no north/south bus between New York Av[B44 n/b] and Utica Av[B46]. The route starts from Utica Av/Fulton St subway station then runs to Glenwood Rd/Nostrand Av mainly via Albany Av, I know its mostly residental but it puts a bus in between the B44 and B46 and is a good alternative.
Southbound-On Utica Av, L on Fulton St, L on Albany Av, R on Snyder Av, L on Brooklyn Av, L on Clarendon Rd, R on Albany Av, L on Avenue H, R on Flatbush Av stand.
Northbound-On Nostrand Av, L on Glenwood Rd, L on Flatbush Av, L on Avenue H, L on Albany Av, L on Clarendon Rd, R on Brooklyn Av, R on Snyder Av, L on Albany Av, R on East NY Av, L on Troy Av, R on Dean St, L on Utica Av stand.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Good one!! I used to live in Crown Heights area and for the most part, you're right. An Albany Ave bus would be great. Rise, B40, Rise!!! (All the north/south bus in the Crown Heights/Flatbush area are in the 40 number range.) The B10 would be my second choice.
Thanks. Its real irritating sometimes when you only could choose between the B44 and B46 [don't get me wrong, I like these routes] but the traffic & crowds make me feel that a Albany Av bus would be beneficial.
I believe that the route on paper is good and could be a benefit but there are two major short comings
1-I believe that the residents of Albany Ave will scream NIMBY
They just will not want a bus on their street
2- There is no traffic geneartors to support such a route. The ridership will just be too low to sustain a service and with the TA is a fiscal bind the money can be spent better elsewhere.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
I know Barry, I did say that Albany Av is mostly residental which is the major prroblem here. Its south of Clarkson Av that would probably have the low ridership; a great alternative to the B44 but the riders just won't be there :-(. I'll just think of another possible route another time............
Here is my own choice:
B93 - Seaview Ave/Starrett City - Fountain Ave/Spring Creek
Seaview Ave, (R)Pennsylvania Ave, (R)Vandalia Ave, (L)Van Siclen Ave, (R)Cozine Ave, (R)Fountain Ave, to Brooklyn Dev. Center & Gateway Mall.
Starrett City/East NY gets better access to Gateway Mall.
Wouldnt you want the B93 to have direct transfer access to the B82/83 buses?? It seems like this bus route is starting across Pennsylvania Ave.......
The B83 can be transfered to/from Broadway Jct at Van Siclen & Cozine.
The B82 to/from Gravesend can be accessed at Pennsylvania & Flatlands.
B93 would follow B82/83 in throughout Pennsylvania.
O I C. Thanx 4 de info and clarification.
Da Beastmaster
I have the following information from a very high source in the Department of Buses.
1-That the Transit Authority will take over the private routes currently operated by the NYC Department of Transportaion PROVIDED IF THE CITY OF NEW YORK PROVIDES THE REQUIRED MONEY
2-The companies will be taken over one by one and not all at once.
I do know the order but was requested to keep the information confidential.
3-Meetings will be held very soon if not already on working the logistics of the take over
4-Amsterdam Depot will remain open as a depot and will not be a maintance facility or a annex of another depot when West Farms opens this year.
5-Hudson Depot will close when 100th Street reopens.
Hope you find this information useful.
Thank You
THIS INFORMATION IS AN EDUCATED GUESS ONLY. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY INSIDE TIPS...YET.
The order is pretty simple to figure out and I can probably guess the order pretty closely. Let's just say that NYCDOT has already told who the first three companies would be. The last company will be a very well-liked company and new MCIs may be headed their way by the time they are taken over. The first company is also well liked and won't happen until at least April. The second and third companies are ripe for takeover because their replacement needs are small and several Novas will be sent to those companies for low density service. Company 4 will require a substantial capital infusion, including plenty of "surplus" Nova and Orion Suburbans. The fifth company will require some capital infusion, but they will have to keep the older buses they have because the MTA will have to put in a new order. This company's express bus service(s) may also be modified. Company 6 will require a large order of new buses and the ones they have may be sent elsewhere. This depot may become entirely Orion 5 or 6 after a few transfers since they NEED so many buses.
Now, pull out your calculators and you'll have the most likely order of the companies.
GUESS:
1-NYBS
2/3-JBS/Command
4-Triboro
5-QSC
6-GBL
7-Liberty Lines
Not bad, but this is what I had in mind:
1. NYBS-they want to cut their losses
2. Command-the city owns their garage AND they are clean fuel
3. Triboro-another smaller operation with clean fuel
4. QSC-city owns their garage, lots of Suburbans will be sent here
5. Jamaica-small operation, express service may be reworked
6. GBL-SOMEONE will have to find money to buy their garage and LOTS of new buses...takes lots of time
7. Liberty Lines-beloved in their operating area, will probably receive a new batch of MCIs
Expect 5-8 routes in this system to completely disappear.
They had better not screw with the QBx1, unless they increase Bx29 service
Here's my prediction on the order. NOTE: This is a assumption that the private companies will be taken over.
1-NYBS--> This one is basically finalized. Had it not been for operating costs, would probably be left alone.
2-Command--> Should be able to be integrated with NYCT rather easily since the fleet is mostly express buses.
3-Jamaica Bus lines--> A small company, should be able to be intergrated with NYCT rather easily. Q113 really underserved and would improve its LTD stop service.
4-Triboro--> Has a fueling station, fits NYCT's preference of clean air buses. Route combinations definitely in the mix, 1985/1986 RTS's in bad shape probably faces retirement should it be taken over.
5-Queens Surface--> The routes really needs help schedulewise, transferred their TMC's too early causing the mess on the Q65 [being underserved]. Q103 will probably be eliminated or combined. Also has a fueling station for its Orions, would help Casey Stengel out since these facilities aren't far away from each other.
6-Green Bus Lines--> The strongest Queens private out of the four. The current routes if/when turned over to the MTA could use a better selection of buses though.
7-Liberty Lines--> Very reliable company, even a possibility that it will be left alone.
All of the Queens privates and Command have problems with giving their routes reasonable headways so the MTA would really improve things. Also, many Queens routes face rooute combos.
Some possible combos:
Q65 with Q110 or Q111
Q34 with Q112
Q110 with Q56
The Q34/Q112 combo is reasonable but you can't do the other two, they would become way too long.
The QBx1 has a decent headway(in the Bronx) because of shuttle service, although it is confusing with all those loops and different service patterns.
Green Lines is the most SHAFTED of the four. On one hand, you have the dinky Q9A, which could not be fixed because NYCDOT had no permission from the City Council to do so. On the other hand, routes like the Q6 don't get enough off-peak buses.
I'm sure they'll be happy. The Green buses are hanging on for dear life.
Tell me about this Q9A? I asked about the Q9A twice and got no response. Can you shed some light on this "bus route"?
This bus route is operated on a skeletal frequency and runs from the 165 Street Bus Terminal to South Jamaica. Its limited schedule chases passengers away. The route carries 70-80 people per day and about a third of that are school kids (NO REVENUE). I once spoke to a planner who wanted to take the bus across to the Aqueduct Racetrack, while I would prefer a combo with the Q21, another highly abused route.
Unfortunately, the crummy schedule and the poor route has choked this line, despite running on Merrick Boulevard AND Linden Boulevard. Green Lines uses one bus and one driver to cover the route all day.
Thanx for de info. Its a like a "school bus".
Da Beastmaster
The Q9A is what's called a "franchise-holder" - it's barely there, on a 60-minute headway from 10:00AM to 5:00PM, just to let Green keep the franchise so nobody else (i.e. NYCT) can run along that stretch of Linden Blvd. Compare with the old Q100.
Thanx for the additional info.
Da Beastmaster
You are correct on number 1 which everyone knows but you are incorrect after that
Thank You
The WMATA web site is loading _very_ slowly this afternoon. For those of you who haven't checked out SubTalk today, there was a derailment on the Blue/Yellow lines near National Airport station, which is causing major delays along the line.
They were talking about it all morning when I was at getting ready for work. They have shuttle buses from the Springfield Station to the Pentagon using Royal and Four Mile Run buses. Spotted 8863(Royal)
9227 (FMR) and about 2 or 3 Orion Vs on tv running the service. I didn't see any as I was heading down to where I work.
Does anyone know when 100 street depot will open? What buses will go there?
why nyct buses of course.
1. When it's ready.
2. Artics.
David
Madision, you asked this question like 4 times already and other Bustalkers responded.
1. When 100 St is ready it will open, expected to open this year
2. Artics
3. NYCT buses [had to throw that one in there ;-)].
All is subject to change except #3 but you never know(sarcasm)
I heard that Flatbush will get artic buses. Will anyone give me the 411 on this info from Flatbush. This would be nice to see artic in Brooklyn and running down Nostrand av on the B44 line.
Not without a reroute. A driver told me that they could not turn the buses by Kings Plaza because the bus could not turn by the garage and any buses coming to Flatbush MUST be able to serve the B41 and B46.
That's strange, considering that artics are easier to turn than standard-length buses. Was a reason for this inability to turn given?
As to whether artics will be assigned to Flatbush, it's up in the air -- it goes in and out of the depot plan. So right now, there is no answer (come to think of it, the last time the question was asked -- by the same person, I think -- the answer was the same! Maybe people should just stop asking the question, and when there is an answer somebody will post it.)
David
I think we have a new Busfan [or is this his alias] LOL ;-). I agree that if no one is sure, it shouldn't be brought up but hey we're allowed to make speculations & predictions. Madision is going to keep asking questions about the artics until they are seen for himself for each depot that recieves them. I wonder what's next, when is Casey Stengel going to get the artics on the Q44.....
Back on topic, I believe that the artics should be able to turn around at Kings Plaza but its the space where buses park and the lengths of the bus stops for the B41 and B46 you have to look at; that may be some of the problem. Also, you have to look at Williamsburg Bridge Plaza on the B46. I think there's enough room but they would have to examine the space and POSSIBLY make modifications.
The Kings Plaza terminal is about to be redesigned by NYCDOT with input from NYCT.
David
Yes, I heard about that in a past post here at Bustalk. Its about time Kings Plaza adds more room for buses.
The busses would have more room if the dame Cops would do there jobs and keep the Van out of the Bus Stop. I worked the 2000 summer pick on the B9 and I think I almost had three accdents with them in that time frame. Thouse drivers don't give a crap about other people safty, all thay care about is the all mighty $1.25. This is one of the reason that I say being a T/O is a hell of a lot better then driving a bus for the TA.
Robert(Former TA B/O)
This driver happened to WATCH as the artic in testing tried to make the turn by the garage. One try-nada, two tries-no dice, three tries-no soup for you. The bus I believe had to turn around a quarter mile south or something like that. If the artic had made that turn, Flatbush would have ALREADY gotten artics. This was in 1997.
Now I remember, the bus had to take out a through lane (or turn from the through lane next to the pair of turn lanes) in order to make the turn, which is quite dangerous.
Gotta watch that hydrant on the Kings Plaza turnaround too. Too much going on down there making a u-turn from the right-hand left turn lane with all the mall wackos turning into the garage. When they re-do that atrocious terminal, they should add some kind of a toll booth style gate to keep everyone else out.
This situation at kings plaza could be easily resolved. The driveway for the parking garage could easily be shaved back ten feet or so with very little effort giving the artics a larger turning location.
This is a solveable problem
It had to do with not introducing the bus (presumably mid-section or rear half) to the traffic light pole that sat on the island. I was told that the bus had to take an extra lane or two to make the turn, which means it bottled up a through lane in order to turn. On Flatbush Avenue, that is a serious liability as cars blow through at 50 switching lanes.
Saw an Artic today hung up trying to make a sharp right between train pillars onto a side street. Mustve been a rookie because PD had to help him back up a couple of times to get the right rear away from the pillar . The bus was at a 45 degree angle with the pillar right on the joint at one point.
No artics to Flatbush until Kings Plaza is rebuilt to accomodate them.
Can't make it any simpler than that!
BIG AL
P.S. Now don't even think of asking when Kings Plaza will be rebuilt.
Private Line Routes
With the inevitible takeover of the prvate lines, I would bet that there are several routes that overlap and may need to be adjusted/extended or dropped any comments?
A couple in queens that I can think of:
Q32 - Extend to LGA and drop q33 - Could really develop the ridership to the airport from the City
QM22 - Jackson Heights Express - Only 2 trips a day - with very low ridership - Discontinue or start it at the airport hotels or deeper into Jackson Heights.
B2 combined with commands B100 route.
Good rush hour ridership but run one block apart and serve the same route. Many people such as myself take which ever bus is leaving first.
Some B2/100 would terminate at kings plaza while other would terminate at strictland and 56 drive. Currently many rush hour b2's terminate at ave s and flatbush ave.
Artics could even be used for evening rush hour service returning to the b41 after a few runs. Yes the combined route could support artics from 5:30 to 7 pm monday to friday. Non rush hour usage is much lighter and non rush hour is where the real savings will be
The b100 equiptment used by command (rts) is old and would probably be retired if taken over by NYCT
There is quite a few route combination opportunities. And all the buses with an A or B would most likely be renumbered.
B2/B100- at East 36 St and Fillmore Av but a separate branch goes to Kings Plaza.
Q18/Q103- at Vernon Blvd, the 18 takes the current 103 route on a part time basis.
Q19B/Q29- at 74 St station, becomes a extended Q29
Q21/Q41- at 164 Av, becomes a extended Q41 to the Rockaways
Q22/Q22A- at Mott Av. Q22's run to Bayswater on a part time basis
Q32/Q33- at 82 St, becomes a extended Q32
Q40/Q60- Q40's should be extended via Queens Blvd to allow all Q60's to have LTD stop service, only thing is that it may duplicate subway service but I think it will be better instead of seeing 3 and 4 60's or gaps in service like you do now. This will be something similar to the Q20/Q44 changes.
Q45/Q47- at 74 St station, becomes a extended Q47
LOTS of adjustments would be made to current routes and route cancellations is likely.
What about eliminating the Q34? Making the Q14 have more runs. Keep the Q25 and make the Q25 have extra service. Let me know what you guys think?
Ray
Since the first day we moved to Mill Basin I feared the takeover. My beloved B100 more than likely wouldn exist afterwards because:
A) B2 is 1 block away from Kings Hwy to Flatbush
B) B41 - Veterans is 2 Blocks away from Flatbush to Ralph
C) B3 is 1 block away from E 57th to Mill and can easily have another
branch added for the Mill Island residents
D) The special school runs travel with the New and Improved B47( What
a blessing that was for the B78)
Effectively there will be no need for the B100 and I might have to change my handle to MARTA 83-Campbellton Rd
And for all of those who complain about bad bus service in NYC - particularly off peak in Queens - visit Atlanta its $1.75, half of the busses are broken, some routes are every 40 mins during rush hours - if they run during other parts of the day, and best of all the entire bus/rail system shuts down at 1 AM. And we're going to $2 also.
Thank god it's not as bad in Atlanta. The rush hour service is about every 5-10 Mins on alot of routes. Alot of routes have 10-15 Mins Headways doing Midday and weekends exept for some routes.
BTW there's good service here in Queens. And from my words,30 Mins is good headways for Low Ridership routes(This also applys to the Q25 north of Roosevelt Ave on Weekends)
Well I a agree with you in terms of how other cities are worse compared to MTA. Hampton Roads Transit (HRT) service is still $1.50, still has no rail service, and buses run every 30 - 60 min untl 7pm. After 7pm buses that run an hour are out of service, while buses that run every 30 min run only for an hour. Rush hours only two routes have 15 min headaways. And all service ends at 12am and starts back at 5am. To cross from southside to the Peninsula. You must catch the #61 before 6pm in both directions, if you don't you are stuck in that area unless you catch a cab to just cross over the bridge - tunnel fr $45.00. Buses, even thought it just got some brand new busses, they still break down. It sucks over here, and I can't wait to come back to NY.
B49 Limited
I agree with you. The QM22 do have somewhat good ridership as I have seen seats full on the QM22.
I do think extra service is needed and the QM22 should be extended to LGA and the Hotels around it.
How about other routes?
The Q10A have only a few trips that just runs Weekdays AM Only to JFK. And the ridership only get's 1/2 Full.
I thinking it should start at Woodhaven Blvd then limited stops until 80 Road then Express until the stop near Raddison Hotel then all stops from there on. And it should have service at about ever 15 Minutes instead of every 20 and run it from 5 AM-12 AM and would be called the Q90.
The Q23 and the Q72 should be extend into LGA to expand Transit Options to most places in Queens
How about eliminatons?
Eliminate the Q21 altogether.
Eliminate the Q67 between Queens Plaza and 65 Pl., and combine the rest of the route with the Q18. It will go to Fresh Pond Road/Metro Av..
Do something about that unusual Q38. Make it a single path.
What do you think?
The Q38 gave me an idea, I will post a topic about unusual bus routes.
And and are they like that.
1. Kill the QM22.
2. Kill the QM23.
3. Kill the Q103.
4. Kill the Q19 (west of 82nd Street, where it duplicates the M60).
5. Combine the Q19 (east of 82nd Street) and Q19A; extend to Flushing.
6. Combine the Q14 and Q34.
7. Restructure the Q39 and Q67 into a single route.
8. Reduce the number of zigs and zags on the Q41.
9. Extend the Q18 south on 69th Street to Metropolitan Avenue station.
10. Combine the Q53, Q21, and Q11 short trips into a "Woodhaven-Cross Bay Limited" with some (but not too many) intermediate stops between Broad Channel and Rego Park; retain non-stop "express" service ONLY during the summer beach season.
11. Combine the QM1 (Fresh Meadows Express) with the QM1A (Glen Oaks branch). The new route (QM5?) would run on 260th Street, right Little Neck Parkway, left Horace Harding Expwy, around Alley Pond Park, left Springfield Blvd, right 73rd Avenue, right 188th Street to the traffic circle at 64th Avenue, and then NON-STOP to Manhattan. The remaining QM1A (North Shore Towers branch) would cover Union Turnpike, with short trips as needed starting at 188th Street.
"Combine the Q53, Q21, and Q11 short trips into a "Woodhaven-Cross Bay Limited" with some (but not too many) intermediate stops between Broad Channel and Rego Park; retain non-stop "express" service ONLY during the summer beach season."
Oh no. The Q53 express should operate as it currently does. First of all the ridership dictates this fact. Second, a lot of people traveling to Midtown, especially the east side, use the Q53 express service as an alternative to the "A" and "S". They do this by taking the express to Rego Park and transfering to the Queens Blvd. lines or take it to Jackson Heights or Woodside for the "7".
I don't think the Q32/Q33 would be a great idea. First of all the bus would almost never make it's schedule because of heavy traffic on 34th St, Madison Ave, Fifth Ave, Queensboro Bridge, Queens Blvd. and Roosevelt Ave.
[Q32 - Extend to LGA and drop Q33 - Could really develop the ridership to the airport from the City.]
Thing 1...
The combined running time from Penn Station to the Central Terminal Building would be well over 90 minutes, factoring in current Q33 running times, which are somewhat insufficient. That's far too long to attract Manhattan-based airport riders (presumably tourists and business travelers). Plus, given the vagaries of Midtown Manhattan, the combined route would become even more unmanageable than the Q32 already is.
Instead, maybe extend the Q33 to Woodside LIRR or Queens Plaza to improve connectivity, and then shorten the Q32 to Woodside or 74th Street to improve reliability.
- - - - -
Thing 2...
Queens has been part of the City since 1898. Let's just accept it already and move on.
Under a takeover - Would the drivers stay at the current depots - or would they be moved around? What would that do to senority benifits?
And the Depots - Any one have suggestions for depot names?
The first question is one that has to be addressed for any takeover to take place. The second is totally unimportant as far as a takeover goes -- the depots (those taken over, at least) will no doubt be given names if this happens, but what those names are is no impediment to a takeover.
David
BLX is on the B61 out of Crosstown depot. Heading through downtown Brooklyn late one night towards Erie Basin/Red Hook. Early 1979. Three young kids get on and just walk by the farebox to the rear of the bus. BLX yells, pay up! BLX is ignored. BLX again requests that they come up and pay. One punk yells out "Hey man, we just seen The Warriors" (some gang movie, never saw it!). BLX tells them the bus will be turned off and BLX will sit and read his newspaper, which BLX does. The bus is not crowded as it's late and no one really went to Red Hook at night. The end of the line on Van Brunt Street was a junkie hangout and there was a sugar factory there. After a couple of minutes one punk slowly comes to see BLX up front. He explains that they have no money. BLX scolds the punk telling him if they just explained that, BLX was cool. Just give BLX the respect that any b/o deserved. (getting dissed wasn't a phrase yet). The punk speaks softly, "okay, we're sorry, can we go now". BLX starts up and Erie Basin here we come. Anyone know what goes on at Red Hook these days? Has it been taken over by yuppies with new apartments that cost $2,000 a month? Okay, that's it for now. If you want another BLX war story, BLX recalls when he needed to produce the large heavy old craftsman adjustable wrench carried in his bag. More punks! Let me know, and I'll give you that one soon. All true, BLX retains much from the old days (even with mind altering chemicals in use), but can't remember shit that happened last week though. Go figure?
Thanks BLX,
It's possible that I may have ridden your bus. During the early 80's I was really exploring in TA territory and I rode the B61 many times before XT closed. I'm enjoying all of your memories. Keep 'em coming at your convenience.
Wayne
Ahh, keep the stories coming BLX. They're very interesting, maybe you should consider writing a book of your past experiences ;-).
Just a quick word that the new Neoplan Low Floors for the Baltimore MTA have begun arriving as of this morning. Two buses were delivered today, at least one of them being numbered 0221.
Few tech specs available so far, other than to note that they are equipped with the Luminator signs seen on the Philly New Flyers. More info as it becomes available.
The days of the few remaining '85 and more evident '86 Flxibles are numbered, and one can only wonder how many '87 models will be trimmed out.
I got a chance to ride the 8600s on the 13 but haven't yet ridden a 8500 or 8700 with a Cummins engine. I will be up in B-more one day next week. Also do want to ride those Neoplans when they start service.
8500s will be a hit and miss shot, though you might be able to get an Eastern Division one on on Baltimore Street on the 5 or 20 lines in the evening peak.
As to the Cummins, there's a core group of about 4 or 5 of us that pester to be assigned the Cummins buses, myself included. However, with the picks changing on Sunday, I'm not sure just where the Cummins buses will shift to. Two operators of the 20 and 51 lines would always have one of either 8736, 37, 38, 39, or 40. The Starter may not adjust these assignments next week, so the 51 line may be a possibility - I'll try to pinpoint some times for you by then.
OTAY!
Isn't MDTA got buses from NABI on their last order in 2001? Why didn't they continue to order NABI 40LFW?
Stephen
MdMTA and NABI had a rather severe falling out over the quality of their recent orders, and the 0000 series, which arrived in 2001, was the last NABIs that Baltimore will likely recieve.
Presently, plans call for 100 Neoplans a year over the next 5 years.
http://mtp.topcities.com/
Check out the above site
I visit the Hempstead bus terminal only every two or three months. At noon today, January 21, 2003, the overhead sign for the JFK Flyer was covered by a blue tarp. At the Flyer platform, a sign directed passengers to take the N4 and change to Q3. But the N4 travels in from Freeport, not Hempstead! Inside the terminal, a long line formed at the only Metrocard machine that would accept bills. The other three or four had no customers, as I presume not too many wished to use a credit card or a bucket of coins. There were several signs proclaiming the recent abolitions and changes in routes, plus an added sign that N43 was not yet using Brookside Avenue as indicated on the route change sign. If the traveler was puzzled, there has been no information agent for months, and the information phones have been removed. Luckily, the operators are civil and knowledgeable, so I presume one could ask around.
When Nassau County was putting money into the pot they were more independant, now they just do what the MTA tells them to do :-(
Name the most unusual bus routes in each borough. I will post the ones in Brookyn, Queens, and Staten Island.
Brooklyn:
B23- The route has nothing special to it. Is there a way to make it better?
B24- Fresh Pond owns the craziest bus route in Brooklyn. This route is in the shape of a large "V". It starts in Brooklyn, goes into Queens then goes back into Brooklyn. Here's what I would do:
Leave the B24 from Williamsburg/Kent Av. to Greenpoint Av./48 St. the way it is. Now combine the rest of the B24(West St.) with the Q104, and now we have a normal looking route. This can only happen after NYCT has taken over the Private Bus Companies. What do you think?
B37 & B63- These routes are way too similar. One travels on 3rd Av., the other on 5th Av.. The B37 is much faster than the B63 because 5th Av. is a crowded street. Here's what I would do: Make the the B63 Limited route. Instead of going to Cobble Hill, LIC Hospital the B63 Limited will go to Downtown Brooklyn with the B37.
B61: Is there a way to make this route straight?
B74: Why is this bus needed when you have the B36?
B77: Another strange route. I would let the B61 take over the part of the B77, up to Smith St., then let the B75 take over the other half of the B77.
I will continue this on my next post.
The B74 actually gets a good number of passenger's and its needed for the Mermaid Av. resident's plus its a good alternative to the B36 if it ever takes too long to show up than usual.
Mind if I throw in comments for each bus ypu listed.
B23- You're right, the B23 needs a lot of help outside of rush hours.
B24- I'd leave it alone, its unique.
B37 & B63- They're fine the way they are but the 63 can take very long[in time] and the 37 is a better option but takes too long to come.
B61- Don't see a problem with it
B74- is a good alternative b/c the B36 tends to have gaps in service and you almost never see that in the 74, gotta ride that bus one day.
B77- I was thinking the same thing but I'd let the 61 take the whole route to 5 Av but then again it should be left alone.
Being that I grew up along the B23 its biggest draw is the laziness factor. It doesn't run too often but its just enough to get the school kids and little old ladies to the major transit routes (B9,B11,B41,B68,B,F,M,N,and Q). Maybe it has been good luck but I always seem to just catch it.
Staten Island:
S42: Is there a reason this route is like that? Is it even needed?
S59: This route doesn't even have its own path(except for a small portion away from the S44). The S79 and S44 can make up this route. Should the S59 be changed?
S60: ????
No the S59 should not be changed.I always see that bus packed and its not always because of the school kids.Besides the S79 comes from Brooklyn and its over an hour trip already to the mall and the S44 is long enough as well.The 59 is good enough as it is.
I think I read somewhere that the S42 is a deceiving route. It looks short, but it takes a long time to complete the route. I am wondering more about the AM rush extension to Forest Ave. How does that work....Ferry to Forest (where I see it sitting when I pass by it in the mornings) then to Clyde Pl then to the Ferry? How heavy is the ridership on the extended portion?
As for the S60....Wagner College bus? Around there are some STEEEEEEP hills, I can't imagine many wanting to walk them.
=)
That extension for the S42 is pointless. It should be killed.
S42- It has more ridership than you'd expect and someone said it takes longer than it seems.
S59- This bus needs a LTD bus running in both directions and doesn't have enough service, its extremely long and gets ridiculously crowded during school hours in particular. The S94 should have new LTD stops past Jewett Av up to Victory Blvd, its silly that the local portion is SO long.
S60- Just odd period but its for the college students.
Queens:
Q21: 72 Minutes per Bus? Is it even worth waiting for?
Q26: Is this bus even needed?
Q38: Whoever designed this route was probably smoking crack. Here what I would do: Keep the 110 St. to Fresh Pond Road portion the way it is. Let the Q45(another route that lacks riders) take over the portion of the Q38 between 81 St. and Fresh Pond Rd. Eliminate the 81 St. through 99 St. portion.
Q45: Something needs to be done with this route to make it better.
Q67: Eliminate this route between Queens Plaza and 69th St.. Let the Q18 takeover the rest going to Fresh Pond Road. This is only possible after the private routes are taken over.
Q102: This route looks like a damn "G". Have the Q101A run along 31 St. instead of the Q102, the Q19A will cover 21 St. Make the Q102 end at Queens Plaza.
This you can think of any other unusual route. Post them, and show how would you change them.
Q21: Probably not needed.
Q26: Mainly used to transport St. Francis Prep HS students to and from Flushing Main St. I used to ride this bus sometimes in the afternoon towards Flushing and about 25% of the time I'm the only one on it (which makes for a quick ride, and that's good for me :) - 14 minutes from 46th ave all the way to Main st). Never seen more than 5 people on it at a time during non-rush hours (with exception of 2 buses that are packed with schoolkids).
I don't know why service on the Q21 isn't beefed up more especially for the beach crowd in the summer. It would be a cheaper alternative to the subway and the Q53 Express Bus. Maybe the Q21 could be combined with the Q35 coming out of Flatbush/Nostrand and make the line more useful. Maybe I should say profitable.
Actually the Q21 schedule IS adjusted in the summertime[every 36 minutes but far better than 72]. I'd combine the 21 with the Q41 since they overlap at Rockaway Blvd.
Believe it or not, the summer is not the only time the Q21 service is beefed up. The Q21 actually runs every 6 minutes during school hours (by school hours, I mean during the time when kids are arriving and leaving school).
You see, a lot of kids living in Howard Beach, Hamilton Beach, Lindenwood and Ozone Park attend school at Beach Channel High School in Rockaway Park, therefore they need the Q21.
How would it be a cheaper alternative to the Q53 express when they ALL cost $1.50?
the Q53 Is Express In Name Only, But is a Limted Stop Line.
add one more stop to The Q53 at Cross Bay Blvd/Woodhaven Blvd/Rockaway Blvd/Liberty Ave
Actually how about one at Jamaica/Woodhaven as well(connection to J Train)
That will work also.
Limited Stop generally means that the bus stops at major intersections along the line. The Q53 is non-stop between Rego Park and Broad Channel. In other words, it DOES NOT STOP at any intersection major or minor between Rego Park and Broad Channel, a 5 mile stretch. It is indeed an express bus.
The Q26 just seems to be an alternate version of the Q27, with only one turn going towrad the Horace Harding Expressway. Something should be done with this route.
Here are some oddities...
Bx4 - spends almost its entire route under elevated subway lines.
Bx12 - should be a light rail line with the ridership it gets.
Bx14 - used to be all Westchester Ave and a Country Club to Pelham Bay connector until the Bx54 was killed; now Parkchester residents have to wait longer for a bus to get them to the other side of the neighborhood, walk all the way over to White Plains Road for access to Bruckner Plaza, and have no late evening trips leaving Grant Circle whereas Country Club has two more post-10PM trips towards Pelham Bay Station.
Bx18 - an odd point of origin, one block west of Morris Avenue and 170th street.
Bx25 - a "quicker" version of the Bx26, in that it does not do the Co-Op City circuit for Section 5 residents; the trade in being access to Fordham Center limited.
Bx33 - starts in relativly desolate Bronx industrial areas, and stub ends at Harlem's St. Nicholas Park (giving it the dubious honor of being the only Harlem crosstown bus - after the M101 - not to reach Broadway.) The imposing hill up the park serves to sharply reduce ridership past Lenox Av to only M2/M3/10 transfers and those gutsy enough to make the climb.
Bx36 - this has got to be one of those most twisted routes in the borough, with enough turns to keep a B/O sitting up straight (no pun intended.) It is the only route to cross paths with the Bx40/Bx42 twice. It would possibly be the third longest Bronx crosstown route if it were merged with the Bx5 from White Plains road to Pelham Bay; in such a scenario it would be one of the few routes in the northeast region that paralells Interstate 95 (to within a mile) for almost its entire county legnth.
Bx39 - it ought to take over the Bx41 stretch from Gun Hill Road to Wakefield and have its headways improved since it serves such an important corridor.
Bx41 - it serves as a local for the Bx55 along Webster Avenue from Gun Hill Road to Fordham Road, and then alone to The Hub. The switch it made with the Bx2 for the strecth from The Hub to Mott Haven was surprising, although it gives riders down there one less transfer to make if they are headed up the Concourse. Headways along Webster Ave could be better if the stretch from Gun Hill Road north is given to the Bx39.
Bx55 - a "bustitution" for the once mighty Third Avenue El. Evidence of its role is the stops it makes on Webster Ave and then Third Avenue - almost all were once stops on the El. The only line in the city to offer a free bus to subway transfer before two fare zones were eliminated (or am I way off here?)
Here's an interesting observation: There is a large amount of people who take the BX12 just along the COncourse to white plains road stretch. Why is the BX22 traveling so empty when the BX12 is full of people who are traveling from GC to WPR, and could have taken the BX22? The BX22 could be easily and quickly modified to alleviate the crowding on the BX12, and be made more useful instead of traveling pretty empty during rush hour.
1. Bx12 is LIMITED
2. Bx39(better chance of getting a seat)
3. Bx22 is not empty it is crowded
4. Bx22 stop isn't exactly on Grand Concourse
Bx22 buses are only empty traveling from Paul Ave to Fordham Plaza. After that it is pretty much standing room only all the way to Aleen B. Ryan Oval (Metropolitan Oval in Parkchester), and then again from Westchester Avenue to the East River (thanks to the housing development there.) This goes for the PM rush from 4:30 to 8:00.
One reason that people don't take the Bx22 over the Bx12 over the stretch you mentioned is that at three key points, the Bx22 stops separate from the Bx12 with one having to cross major thoroughfares to get to either stop: Valentine and Fordham, Fordham Plaza and Third Avenue, and Pelham Parkway and Bronx Park East (Boston Road.) Another reason is that by Fordham Plaza, the destinations passengers are headed towards is pretty much pre-determined especially since the next stop on the Bx12 Limited (eastbound) is the Bronx Zoo; in the case of the Bx12, many are going to White Plains Road for the Bx39 northbound or are staying on for points along Pelham Parkway.
I think that the BX22 terminating at fordham should be sent to Sedgewick av, and should bypass Bronx Park East, instead going up to the current BX12 WPR stop, then turning under the EL.
The BX12 should get its own stop, and the BX22 should be put to good use. THere is no reason why the BX22 shouldn't be packed while on Fordham.
The B42 in Brooklyn also had (and still has) free bus to subway transfers at Rockaway Parkway/Canarsie on the L.
Bx55 has an extra stop on Fordham Road/Webster Avenue that is only on the NB side
Bx25 doesn't go to Fordham Center
I know; I implied that in the statement on the Bx25. Maybe I should have phrased it better, to say "the trade off being access to Fordham Center cut off."
Bx8 and Bx21 cross paths with Bx40/Bx42 twice
Bx36 also crosses Q44 twice
Bx14 should go to Bruckner Plaza
no wait Bx8 crosses with the Bx40 twice, Bx42 once
You are completely off on the bus/subway transfers when the system was a 2 fare zone.
B46 and the 3/4 at Utica Av station
Q4,Q5,Q84,Q85 and the E,J/Z at Jamaica Center
B42 and the L at Rockaway Parkway
I think there was more but I don't remember
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bx4- Nothing wrong with spending its entire length under a el although it really limts a chance at good speed
Bx12- No LTD stop service on weekends, just stupid
Bx14- Just weird but it should be adjusted to make it more desirable
Bx18- Nothing else to say but ODD!
Bx20- Looks like it has low ridership and is basically carved out of the Bx10, very infrequent. Needs help
Bx25- Its not odd, saves 10 minutes but should just be a LTD bus
Bx33- I agree with you. Only reason it can't go to Broadway b/c 135 St dead ends due to the park.
Bx36- Takes too long in time, needs LTD stop service but its not really odd routewise.
Bx39- Leave it alone, it would become too long but could use better headways.
Bx41- No LTD service outside of the rush hour? What is wrong with the MTA don't they see the heavy ridership it has :-\.
Bx55- Its not a oddity but not such a great replacement. Very unreliable at times, some buses only go to Gun Hill Rd, gaps DO occur in service and I wish the 3 Av el could come back but as a subway or maybe a el.
kind of hard to come back as a subway, Metro North, unless they dig even deeper, wich could be a problem on Webster Avenue and Gun Hill Road
You also forgot to say
Bx1/Bx2 should have LIMITED stop service on sundays
The Bronx's Limited stop network could EASILY be improved if the MTA took the time to look at the ridership. The Bx1 & 2 should have Sunday LTD stop service but you have the D train via Grand Concourse so it proabaly won't not be needed. The Bx12 and Bx41 though, first of all should have expanded LTD stop hours on the weekdays. Second, no LTD stop service on the weekend and its just as busy as the weekday; reminds me of the B6 having no weekend service.
Bx12 LTD would have problems on Weekends anyway seeing as though most buses would be going to Orchard Beach(local)
I think you are misunderstanding them. They are talking about weekend Ltd service on the Bx1/2, NOT Bx12.
no he mentioned the Bx12 not having LIMITED service on weekends and that it was busy, so I mentioned one problem with Bx12 weekend LIMITED service (not that this should stop them from running weekend LTD as this is ONLY in the summer).
Limited service on the weekend for the Bx12 is being discussed, it would probably be on Saturdays Only, since that's the busiest of the weekend days. And in the summer there is Limited Orchard Beach buses during the week, but if they insitute Limited Service on Saturdays, then look for limited Orchard Beach on Summer Saturdays. ALSO, as it stands now, you will find some Bx12 buses running limited on Saturdays ONLY IF they are running late.
I only saw LIMITED Bay Plaza buses last summer, all the Orchard Beach buses are local
I still think the Bx1 and Bx2 should run LIMITED on Sundays
----
as it stands now, you will find some Bx12 buses running limited on Saturdays ONLY IF they are running late.
----
Does that only go for BAY PLAZA/INWOOD BWAY-207 or does that apply for PELHAM BAY/ORCHRD BCH/SEDGWCK AV as well?
Actually, I'm talking about BOTH the Bx1/2 and the Bx12. The 1 & 2 IMO doesn't need Sunday LTD service since the D runs right under GC & would be the faster option anyway and the extra buses won't be needed.
As for the Bx12 though that's another story the headways are 5 minutes throughout the day on Saturdays and every other bus runs to Bay Plaza so the schedule is already there all they would have to do is mark them LIMITED, that shouldn't be too hard. All buses could start from 207 St though, the LTD runs to Bay Plaza and the local runs to Pelham Bay Park. Also it shouldn't add any or very few buses on the weekend [Saturdays preferrably with a option for Sundays too].
Going back to the Bx41, in your opinion, do you think the TA has decreased frequency of the Bx41 since the Artics came on the scene, or just lately? I know a couple of years back, the Bx41 used to come every 5 or 6 minutes during weekday middays. The last couple times I've been to the Bronx, the Bx41 was coming every 8 to 10 minutes.
Yes, it seems like they actually decreased service on the Bx41 but they do have gaps/bunch up at times and don't show up on time more than half the time b/c of the traffic on Webster Av. It still comes every 5-6 minutes on rush hour but on weekends its every 7-10 minutes, not too bad but LTD service should be expanded out of rush hour, it's silly for a heavy ridership route.
I always found it strange that for a bus that have such a heavy ridership that it is not a 24/7 service.
The Bx15 doesn't carry nearly the amount of passengers that the Bx41 does, but it has 24 hour service. The Bx15 has had this service for years, all the way back when it was the old Bx29.
But the Bx15 is 24 hours and runs every 20 minutes between 149 St and Fordham Rd b/c the 55 is no longer runs in the late night. Me too, I always wondered why the Bx41 doesn't have 24 hour service, just silly if you ask me but since Third Av is close to Webster Av, its PROBABLY not needed.
"Bx55 - a "bustitution" for the once mighty Third Avenue El. Evidence of its role is the stops it makes on Webster Ave and then Third Avenue - almost all were once stops on the El. The only line in the city to offer a free bus to subway transfer before two fare zones were eliminated (or am I way off here?)"
Yes, you are a little off. There were other lines that offered free subway transfers for the same reason as the Bx55.
1. The B35 at 9th Ave. Sta. of the "B" and Church Ave. Sta. of the "F". Although the B35 existed for years, the transfers were issued at these two locations to substitute for the Culver Shuttle that was discontinued in 1975.
2. The B42-Rockaway Pkwy Sta of the "L". The B42 was a replacement for the Canarsie Line which used to travel all the way to the bay using its own PR of W. When it was cut back to Rockaway Pkwy, the tracks were then used by trolley. When trolley service was discontinued, it was replaced by B42 buses running down Rockaway Parkway. I don't know the exact dates of all of the discontinuations, but I'm sure somebody will check me with that info.
3. The B54-Jay St. Borough Hall Sta. of the "A", "C" and "F" and Broadway Myrtle Sta of the "J", "M" and "Z". Transfers were issued at these two subway stations as a replacment for the Myrtle Ave. El in 1969. However, I don't know if the B54 existed before then, although I think it did.
4. The Q49-Queens Blvd (later 121st St.) Sta. of the "J". This bus was a direct substitution of the Jamaica Ave. El when it was cut back from 168th St. to Queens Blvd. in 1977; cut back to 121st St. later on. When the Archer Ave. Subway opened in December 1988, the Q49 was discontinued.
However there is one thing that was unique to the Bx55 as well as the Q49 (I'm not sure about the B42). They were the only bus routes the TA operated (with the exception of premium fare express buses) that DID NOT except transfers to/from other bus routes.
Having first moved to Canarsie in 1960 i can give you some information about the B-42
1-The B-42 replaced the trolley in 1949 according to the Motor Coach Brooklyn Bus History
2-B-42 did have transfers to the B-17 and B-60 routes at Glenwood Road and Rockaway Parkway in both directions.(You could transfer to the B-17 at Flatlands Ave and Rockaway Parkway)
Also the B-54 did exist prior to the Myrtle Avenue El closing in 1969 according to the Motor Coach story.
I believe that the service was not as extensive before the El was closed but i am not sure.
Also the Q-49 at one time was split between the Brooklyn and Queens Divisions. The odd runs were from Jamaica Depot while the even runs were from East New York Depot. I believe this existed from 1977 to 1984 when the route was extended from Queens Blvd to 121st Street and the route was assigned completely to Jamaica
Thank You
I know by the summer of 1983, the Q49 was out of Jamaica because I was riding it everyday (Monday thru Friday) during that time.
Thanks for the other information.
Not as bad as NJT- Their route maps look like a kid went crazy with crayons. NJT needs to simplify their routes to feed to rail statiosn and use a hub and spoke to get to/from rail stations with a few routes to connect ebtween hubs.
I realize they can not run on route 1 but pick a side street, county or state highway and stick with it. That would shorten travel time.
NJT bus fans: feel free to submit ideas for simpler bus system.
As an Example for MetroPark:
1- service to Menlo and Woodbridge Malls, the Woodrbdieg lient o also serve Woodbridge rail station.
2- Service along 27 from Metro park to Metuchen rail Station and new Brunswick Rail Station .
3- Service to Rahway rail Station
40 keep route 62 but simply tremendously. Let some small towns be served by other hub service.
NJT already has hub routes 801, 802, 803, 804, and 805 from MetroPark that serve many of the areas you suggest.
I think he was referring to routes along the 62 line which are separate from the Metropark loops 801-805.
Rockland Coaches have some USELESS ass routes too....
Route 14 Westwood Branch
This line is useful up until Harrington Park. Some trips extend to Westwood which is absolutely useless, it copies the 84 line from Harrington Park to Westwood. HOWEVER the 84 to Westwood either runs about 10 minutes in front of or 20 minute behind these scheduled 14 trips.
Route 33/45 Port Authority to Mount Ivy
Only makes one trip a day and serves one extra town then the 45 and 45A. I drove it once and didn't drop off or pick up anyone in that one town.
Route 48 - Stony Point to Port Authority LIMITED
This route is about as useless as it gets it combines the 11A, 20, 49 and 45 into one route. From Stony Point to Nanuet it acts like a 11A, then from Nanuet it bounces to West Nyack then from that point back to Nanuet it acts like a 20, then in Nanuet to Upper Montvale it acts like a 49, then from Upper Montvale to the Port Authority it acts like a 45. Everytime I see this bus it has NO ONE on it. I've yet to drive it though.
Regards
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I can see how the Q102 looks too roundabout. Which part of the Q102 do you want to end at QP, from Astoria or from Roosevelt Island? Part of the reason I guess is the Q102 goes down 31st instead of 21 st (which may seem more logical) is that the Q18 can't handle all of those who come from the Astoria projects and around that area that want to connect to the 30 Ave station.
The Q101A...do you mean the Rikers Limited? After Queens Plaza I think the next stop is the road is that leads to Rikers, going up 31 st would be slower than 21 st.
I think the Q26 also serves students to/from St. Francis Prep
=)
I have a better idea with the Q102:
Let the Q104 take over the Q103 all the way up to Hunter's Point.
Change the Q103, let it go down the normal Q102 path on 31 St.. It will end at Queens Plaza.
Now the Q102 will still go to Roosevelt Island but it will be shortened to Queens Plaza. I think this can work.
Q9/Q9A- Both routes WAY too short, look like money losers to me. I'd combine the Q9 with the Q34, get rid of the 9A or think of a possible modification and give the 34 its own identity and making it more useful, not enough service on the Q25 OR Q34.
Q19B- This is a funny short route, odd to me. I'd combine it with the Q29.
Q21- HELL NO! I rode it once terminal to terminal but I waited ONLY 15 minutes :-).
Q26- Since it was cut severely in 1995, I thought it was just a surplus to the Q27 and should of been just cancelled but it makes local stops for the 27 LTD and runs weekdays only.
Q38- This route is just retarded. Lets say a person needs to go to 63 Dr from 99 St, they could just cross Horace Harding Expwy! Here's what I'd do: Extend the Q72 to the 38's current terminal at 62 Drive and 110 St, shift the Q38 to Queens Blvd then combine it with the Q65A.
Q45- Combine with the Q47 [see a previous posting of mine]
Q67- If it has low ridership, then I'd follow your plan on this one but if it's decent, make adjustments to it.
If you waited only 15mins for a Q21 then you were REALLY lucky.
Exactly! :-) Me & a friend got on at the first stop at B 116 St, and when we reached Rockaway Blvd, we were the last two people on the bus, not surprising to me. Bus driver I had on the Q21 hit 70mph via Cross Bay Blvd, had the front seat which made things better.
I love those A train GO's where the buses replace the trains between Beach 98 St or Howard Beach and Rockaway Blvd, especially drivers from Jamaica depot but all the Queens depot drivers from Casey Stengel and Queens Village drive very good too. Also had a few drivers that went maximum speed, especially via Cross Bay from the tolls to 165 Av :-D.
I rode the Q21 once last year and it was a bit low for the most part. Like about 6 People when I got on but most of the ridership on the Q21 comes from Lindenwood and along Cross Bay North of 165 Ave and that's the parts of the Q24 it overlaps the Q41.
I rode the Q21 once last year and it was a bit low for the most part. Like about 6 People when I got on but most of the ridership on the Q21 comes from Lindenwood and along Cross Bay North of 165 Ave and that's the parts of the Q21 it overlaps the Q41.
Q7: 20-30 Minutes per bus
Q9A: 60 minutes per bus-Afternoon(kill this route)
Q10A: It only lasts for an hour
Q19: 20-40 minutes per bus(lasts only up to 6:40 P.M.)
Q21: 72 minutes per bus! *"Oh God, my legs are hurtin' from the standing!"*
Q37: 30-40 Minutes per bus(on Sundays)
Q45: 30-40 Minutes per bus(weekends)
Q47: 30-50 Minutes per bus(weekends)
Q65: Horrible schedule either way, believe me.
Q67: 60 Minutes per bus(weekends). I'm going to observe this route on Friday.
Q76/Q77: 30 Minutes per Bus(Saturdays), no Sunday Service
Q79: 30 Minutes per bus, no Sunday Service
Q103: 30-60 Minutes per bus(kill this route, or combine it with the Q104, or Q19)
Q104: 20-40 Minutes per bus.
Semi Queens Routes:
B13: 15-30 Minutes per bus(FP needs more buses)
B24: 20-30 Minutes per bus
Notice how most of these schedules are under the private bus companies.
Oh yeah, look at the late night headways.
Q11- Every 160 minutes on alternate branches
Q33- Every 60 minutes; for such a short route that's odd
Q35- Every 70 minutes
Q46- Every 64 minutes [can't it just be every 60 min :-\]
Q65- Every 90 minutes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some more buses with outrageous headways in Queens
Q21- Every 72 minutes; geez imagine missing the bus, had to mention it
Q29- Every 60 minutes[Sunday mornings]
Q53- Every 60 minutes[weekend mornings]
Now see why some of the routes are money losers, see the Queens bus map at the headways of some buses and you'll be surprised.
Well with the Q76,77,and79,I've ridden all 3 buses numerous times and I've never seen to many people ride each route.So that's why they are infrequent and don't run on Sunday's. As for the Q65....what are you talking about? That bus has the best schedule out of all of the private bus lines on weekdays and weekend's,it's schedule is decent enough.Sure it bunch's up but that's only cause of traffic and when buses get mega crowded.
Same with the Q67. Low Ridership. I have saw like about 2-3 people on it on a good day
The Q65 is terrible, I've waited for this bus 3 different times, and each time I ended up walking to where I needed to go. To make things even worse, when I was waiting I always see one bus going the other way, it never comes on my side. I stood at Union Tpke. One time, I stood waiting for more than 30 minutes, and then I ended up walking to Jamaica Center, and I beat it there!!! The Q65 sucks ass. Crowdedness is not an excuse. The Q58 very crowded, but at least it doesn't take an hour to come when its bunched up. I'll never ride that piece of $hit Q65 again. I'd rather wait for the B13, or even the Q19. I feel very bad for the people who have to take that route on a daily basis.
BTW, the Q65 doesn't provide the most frequent service as a private route. The Q66 has more service.
Nope, the Q10 has the most consistent headways of all the Queens privates. You're right, the Q65 is a piece of ass and I could back your claim. A story I'm going to tell, EVERYTHING is true, no lies; especially on the Q65, you thought your experiences was bad, read this.
Let me tell you guys a little story. I was doing a bus trip back in November 2002 in Queens, started out by taking the Q from Brooklyn to Times Sq, took the E to the 2nd last stop at Sutphin Blvd; then jumped on the Q44, rode it from Sutphin Blvd to 39 Av. So I was in Flushing waiting[hoping] to take the Q65 back to Jamaica then ride other routes I never rode before but the line of people was SUPER LONG, at least 70 people; if not more and of course there was no bus, so I'd rather not waste my time waiting anymore; I already waited about 10-15 minutes in the RUSH hour so imagine how long people waited! So, I decided to hop on the Q27 LTD [I was riding it for the first time] which got full but the ride was great, the driver had produced good speed especially via Springfield Blvd; we went 45-50mph a couple of times. I took it to Hillside Av so I waited for the Q43 and I took it back to Parsons Blvd and I was thinking whether I should continue and ride other Queens routes but I was like nah. The Q43 driver drove rather slow at times, waiting for the Q65 pissed me off and I was tired so I just took the F to 34 St/Herald Sq then I took the Q train home.
Now here's the funny thing, when my Q27 left [a 6xx Orion] Main St and turned on Kissena Blvd the Q65 comes :-\ but only ONE came [a 4xx Orion]. So I rode the 27 to eastern Queens then waited a few minutes for the Q43 on Hillside, the driver of the 43 drove slow at times going no more than 15mph at some points and then by time I reached Parsons Blvd, the SAME Q65 GOT THERE BEFORE ME BY A FEW MINUTES! Imagine that.
Waiting on the Q65 was very frustrating & made the wait for the B13 pleasant the time I rode the new extended 13 a while back. It even made my wait for the one time I rode the Q21 LOOK GOOD [lift your jaws guys ;-)]. That bus[Q65] needs a lot of improvements schedulewise and it has *TOO FEW* buses IMO.
Sorry but I strongly disagree with you and Sir Ridgewood.Both of you have been extremely unlucky when you had your encounter's with the Q65.Me,I've always had it good.I've been on that Q65 plenty of times,mostly to go to College Point (118St/14rd to be exact)and while waiting for it at Flushing,the longest I had to wait for a bus was close to 10mins and only once,yes ONCE,have I seen two buses come together while I waited for it.And even while leaving CP,I never had to wait to long for it to show up.Hell even the last time I was at CP,
I wanted to take the Q20 and even the 65 showed up before either 20,A or B,did.
So I suggest you two take at least 2 more bus trips,each with the Q65 involved and then tell me what happened.Maybe next time you'll have better luck cause there is nothing wrong and there are enough buses to go around on that route.
Oh and Sir Ridgewood,bout the Q66....look at the schedule of that bus again please!The 66 is every 15mins between Flushing and the Northern Blvd (G,R,V) subway station which means every other bus goes to Queensboro Plz for a headway of every 30mins.And I was wrong in saying that the Q65 has the best schedule of all the private lines.I just got caught up in the moment of praising the Q65.That honor goes to both the Q10 and Q11 of GBL.And even in saying that,there's STILL long lines for both buses every time I've seen them.
These people have bad luck!
When I take the Q25 I never had to wait more then 10-15 Minutes for a bus to come. Same can be said for the Q65
The Q65 is the worst Queens Surface route, IMO. And even the Q25 gave me problems, but at least it came for me eventually, I'll give it that much. Hell , today I was observing the Q67. And guess how long it took to come? Only 8 minutes, thats right 8 minutes on a 30 minute-per-bus schudule. Its sad when a bus with a slow schedule actually comes earlier than a bus with a fast shcudule. B13 vs. Q55 is a great example of this. Anywayz, you and V Train can can not convience me and Flatbush41 that thats(Q65) an accurate route. It give me problems 3 times in a row. Now what does that say?
That you have bad luck that's what.If you dont know EXACTLY what times the bus is supposed to show up,all you know is it's headway's,then all you know is how many mintues in between buses,not exactly what time it's due at a bus stop like say for example at 25 and 55mins past every hour.It could show up 8mins later like you mentioned with the Q67.Same can go to the Q65 and even the Q25.It's all a matter of bad luck for you and Flatbush.And since you only ride certain buses once in a blue moon,you can't immediately tell that the route sucks or it needs more service.It could have the best service you've ever seen for all you know.What bus route do you ride very often? Tell me your intake on that route.
I'm kinda shocked at what is being said about the Q65 sucks and all. Granted, I don't take the Q65 that often, but from my experiences I thought the route was pretty descent, clean and I didn't have to wait that long for it. I wish this damn Q22 that runs by me was like that. Now that is an awful route.
Yes I agree with you on the Q22. Every time I ride the Q35 and wait for the 22 at B149 St, there is always a crowd at the bus shelter and two of them showing up at the same time is common; in fact out of all the times I EVER rode the 22, only *ONE* time did the bus come without being bunched up and I'm not lying about it. You usually wait 20-25 minutes instead of every 10-12 minutes which is just bad & awful.
Dont pay attention to Ridgewood and Flatbush.They think that the Q65 is a bad route because of the bad experiences they've had with it.I've had my own experience with that route and it's always been good.As for the Q22,sometimes it does bunch up but out of the times I've ridden it,only twice have I waited for it at Riis Pk have I've seen 2 at a time.Every other time,there has been a small crowd and only one bus showed up.
To add to my previous post, one time I waited for a Q22 at Beach 149 St, TWO TMC Q22's were at 148 St heading toward Roxbury, one of them just stayed there for like 10 minutes. Then one of them U turned at the turnaround by the ramp toward the Marine Park bridge and took the passengers. Took 20 minutes for it to come though only to see the other one that went to Roxbury catch up to us anyway. The 22 needs some adjusting alright.
Face the facts. The Q65 is a nightmare. My high school was close to it, and guess what? I always walked to the Q46 instead. Walking to the walking to the Q46 is always much faster than taking the Q65 to it. 'nuff said.
Sorry, I meant walking to the Q46 is always much faster than taking the Q65 to it. F*&$ing typo.
No you face the facts that you've always had bad luck with that route.
Of course if you always wound up taking it during the rush hours,there's always gonna be a problem one way or another.You can blame the vast number of people who take the bus at Flushing for that. You won't find anywhere else along the route with the most people at a bus stop waiting for it than there.Flushing=delays.
Nope, can't convince us that easily that the Q65 is good, b/c its a piece of shit. EVERY time I'm around Flushing, the Q65 line is always the longest one and its a routine seeing 2 to 3 buses running together heading in the opposite direction [toward College Point]. I had problems more than once with the Q65, I've taken the Q25/Q34 instead every time I want to ride Queens Surface buses from Flushing b/c the damn 65 just doesn't show up and I've seen more people complain about it.
Come on if I was able to ride the Q27 to EASTERN Queens then take the Q43 to Parsons only to see the Q65 get there a few minutes before me, now how does that sound.
You forgot the Q6, that bus also has better service than the Q65.
I admit too about the (sorry) Q21. I rode this route three x and I was lucky the first time (about 5 min)to ride it from Rockaway to B 116 St. There were people, mostly school children. Most of thier passengers came from Lindenwood and most of them got off at Playland. By the time it reach B 116 S t, I was the only one. My second attempt was not that successful (this is before I found out how long the wait was) I can recall being there at 3:30 and I waited until 5pm for the bus and by the time it reach there I was angry because it was raining (boy was I an idiot) I figure that is why I was the only one waiting for this bus. There waas no one all the way throughout this route. My third time was from Rockaway Park and the same result about thre people and they got off of Lindenwood.
I do have a question for everyone here, this my theory and apply to busses with horrible schedules and thier routes
less passengers = horrible schedules and sometimes poor bus routing...
The Q21 is a good route but the timeing of it is like about every 1 Hour and 10 Minutes on Middays and Weekends.
I rode it once and it was a Weekday and most of the Ridership came from Lindenwood to the Rockaway Blvd A Train Station. Before Lindenwood it was only like about 3 When I got on and a lady got on too.
Every 72 minutes to be exact middays, evenings & weekends, 36 minutes in the PM rush and every 8 minutes in the AM rush hour, just atrocious! That's why the Q21 is such a big loser.
the Bx21's night service runs faster than the Q21's midday service lol
Q10a would possibly be elimnated whe the airtrain starts operating, Passengers can take the E From Union Turnpike to Sutphin/Archer to connect with airtrain or use the Q10 To JFK from Union Turnpike/Queens Blvd
Okay Flatbush41, I tell ta what. I'll ride the entire Q67 on Friday. And find out if its really of any use. I really don't think the Christ the King HS Students would ever need to use it pass the Q18.
Ok, cool just watch this frigid weather. Post the results here if you still decide to go.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot about my very own B13. The is probably the hardest route to drive for in Brooklyn. This bus has so many turns, the Fresh Pond B/O's never get any breaks. This route has a mixture of everything. I has to get through wide crowded streets(Linden Blvd), it travels under the El(J-Line for a short time), it must go through the big hill with lots of turns(Cypress Hills St.), it must go through a residential area with hard turns(Ridgewood) and narrows streets, it passes through an industrial area(Flushing Av.). And guess what? The route design is perfect, it just needs more service, unfortunately FP doesn't have enough buses to provide it.
Out of curiosity can another depot pick it up? I know ENY is out of the question. Here is a suggestion if FP needs busses, please eliminate or reduce service on the B 24,I mean I understand the concept of the route but in present day, do we need to run it on a full time bases ( should be rush hours)
Right now, FP needs to put less service on routes like the B26, B38, and B52. There is no way it can keep 14 routes running with just 239 buses, and also consider the fact that some of the 8000's/8100's still need to get repowered. And if any bus gets taken out of service, there isn't that much to back it up. The average # of buses that should be in FP is 250. A solid amount would be 255.
And no, Fresh Pond is, and always will be the best owner for the B13. If it was under ENY, they would treat it like $hit. Besides, I want the 9100's to dominate it.
FP is ignored, like it doesn't exist, even though it owns important routes like the B26, B38, B52, and Q58.
Well if there was a Maspeth depot, hmmmmmmm.......
Believe it or not ridership has increased on the B-24
Why would you want to eliminate it or reduce the service.
BTW according to my sources at the DOB Gateway Mall now wants the buses on its property.
I believe that changes will begin to be seen in the March pick
The B-13 will be the first route to enter the mall pending approval of the MTA Board. I believe that no pick will be required because extra time was built into the line when it was adjusted with the B-18 last fall
Thank You
So if the B13 really does go to Gateway, I hope that more service will be added. Here's da perfect schedule fer it:
Service:--- AM / NOON / PM / EVE / NITE
Weekdays: -10- /- 15 - /- 15 - / -20- / -60-
Saturdays: -20- /- 15 - /- 15 - / -20- / -60-
Sundays: - 20 - /- 20 - /- 20 - / -30- / -60-
I even gave it late night service. But if it really does get late night service, cut it back to the original path(Bklyn. Dev. Center) after midnight until 5:00 A.M. Now if only FP can get more buses...
Barry email me. I think you got my addy.
Please e mail me at BarryLv1150 @yahoo.com
Thank You
Email addy did not work.
Da Beastmaster
Got it. Thanx!!!
Da Beastmaster
ROUTES: NJ1 (split route - Hilton), NJ43, NJ80, NJ81, NJ87, NJ120, NJ126 (split route - Meadowlands)
1989 Flxible Metro-B: #1700-1721
1989 Flxible Metro-B Subruban: #3001-3002, #3004-3014, #3124, #3193, #3198 and #3201-3211
1994 Flxible Metro-D: #1781, #1783-1785, #1787-1788, #1790, #1792-1800, #1819-1840 and #1886-1889
First, I like naming the routes "NJ" like Q1, M1, B1, etc. I know that "NJ" will not fit the destination sign but I like naming the routes like that.
Second, I'll post the next roster later on this week or next week.
Ray
Ok Corrections.....
Route 126 is actually split with Meadowlands, Ironbound & Howell
Route 81 is split with Ironbound
Route 87 is split with either Ironbound or Meadowlands (I forgot which one)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thank you, Trevor. This is what I'm talking about. I'll make the proper corrections. I assume the roster itself is the same. Thanks again.
Ray
P.S. Market Street Bus Depot is next! Remember, this is from the January 1st 2002 roster. Obviously, there will be changes.
I do have Route Descriptions,,,Destina0tion Signs for ALL NJT routes
Your Right on the money with that Greenville roster Ray.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage.
Thanks. Market Street will by laster this week or next week.
Ray
Cool,
Let me know if you want help with the Meadowlands.
Tony
I will, I'll e-mail you for the roster later today.
Ray
I haven't been able to access the Motor Bus Society website lately (www.motorbussociety.org). Does anyone know if something is going on with that organization?
Jim D.
I believe Dave Mackey is the Webmaster for MBS. If you know his web address, you should advise him of the problem. I assume his web address is available at one of his own sites.
I know it's fun to think about route changes, fleet consolidations, etc., but does anybody really think that an MTA takeover of the DOT bus operations is really going to happen quickly?
First off, can the MTA simply take over these operations, or does legislation have to be passed first by the State Assembly?
Even if the MTA can go ahead with this, look at what must be worked out before MTA stickers can be slapped on those buses:
- A financial settlement with the city for operating subsidies, pension obligations, and to acquire buses and depots. You KNOW that the MTA and Mayor Mike are going to have very different ideas about what that dollar figure should be!
- Agreements with the unions.
- Agreements with the owners of the private bus companies regarding the use/purchase of depots. Suppose one or more of these groups asks for more money than the MTA is willing to pay. I doubt the current MTA facilities can easily absorb hundreds of additional buses.
Even if all of this can be worked out, there is then the matter of replacing the hundreds of obsolete or soon-to-be-obsolete RTS and Classic buses now in use. Where is that money going to come from? (The City should share in this expense since they would have had to buy new buses soon, but good luck getting that money now).
Lots of questions. Should be interesting to see how it all plays out, though.
Jim D.
Also remember that MTA Chairman Kalikon has said more then once that if it's going to cost the MTA money he doesn't want to do it.
Both he & Gov. George have enough money problems without doing this just because Mayor Mike doesn't want to do it any more !
If Donald Trump was running the TA and saw a way to make money doing the merger it would happen, but stop and think for a minute why would either Larry R. or Kalikon P. care whether or not these routes were part of their system ? Will it help them balance their budgets or get more money out of Washington or Albany ? Will it help George get re-elected ? It's not like the operators are going out of business or walking away from their responsibilities ... it's just that Mike don't wana !
the current roster shows this bus awaiting scrap at carleton yard. only two 1984 gmc rts remain in service.
Saw 1 of them on the Q32 yesterday: 3469. This bus sounded wonderful-like music to my ears.
Isn't 3562 still in service at KB? Last I knew it was still on the active roster.
So now we're down to 3. Who will survive?
#3469 Q32
#3474 M2
#3562 BX55
Bus #3562 has been scrapped as far as I know. Buses #3469 and #3474 are still running from Hudson and Manhattanville respectively. Bus #3503 is in storage.
Ray
What happened to 3669? That bus use to be on the Q56 a lot. I guess that bus couldn't hack it in ENY. Bring the 3474 and 3469 to Brooklyn so they can see their death.
3669 began its career in ulmer park in 1984. it served nyct until 2002 when it was retired at eny depot. 18 years is pretty good for a bus meant to last only 12 years.
3669 is off the road now, it was a pretty good bus & I saw it a lot on the B8 when it was run by ENY. Had pretty good acceleration, could of went a little while longer but 18 years running on NYC streets is remarkable.
Well you can say the same about the 7000 and 7500 buses that went throught the "afterlife" rehab! :)
20+ years and those puppies are still going and with the beginning of those being repowered, we're probably looking at another 10 years with those babies!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
SAw these 3 buses passing on the "W" line between Bay 50th Street and Coney Island: #3966,#4167 and #4191. They look in mint condition but are not running. Could UP use them for spares or are they parked there for another reason?
they probably are in mint condition. all were used for some time when they were converted to coaches in 1998 and sent to yukon. however they are all 1985 vintage and are approaching 18 years. were these buses in the coney island train yard?
they were near the coney island train yard-i dont remember these buses being coaches, but you never know.
b1-#9078-NOVABUS
B68-#9335-NOVABUS(UP-it was an extra run #X53)
they were. i drove some of them in yukon in 1998. nyct must be storing buses at or near ci yard. some of these may be on roster as sold to nimco.
4191 I remember spent its last days at CS. It was repainted and in great condition. Not sure if I can say the same for the other 2.
#4191 Q32
OK - Guys they're in service. I saw 5301 and 5306 on the 70 line about 20 minutes ago. I'm tempted to go back out to ride one of them, but it's too darn cold out there. I may wait 'til Saturday. I guess there must be some bus swapping going on since Northern didn't have any MAN artics. Also - I haven't seen any MAN artics this week.
Wayne
Wow, I may have to make sure my schedule is clear on Saturday and take a trip up to Silver Spring too! Of course, I'll go up there and there will be 40 footers being run on the 70!
I've never saw a SINGLE 40 footer on 70, pure 100% NABI Artic route (for as far as i know) and now Neoplans :)
No, No, No! Yes, they're plenty of artics on the 70, but they're many 40-footers there too. I'm suprised youhaven't seen them. Remember, Northern's NABI's also operate on the S2 & S4. The typical 40-footer on the 70 lines are the Metro-D and B's. Orion V's will make an appearance too, but it's pretty much NABI, Metro-D, Metro-B, Orion V (In that order). Late nights it's pretty much all Metro-D's.
Wayne
Ah I see.
I knew I wasn't seeing things!!! I've seen 9371 on there and a bunch of Metro D's in the past, particularly on the weekends. I was up in Silver Spring on Veterans Day for a doctor's appt. and as I was walking back to the metro, saw a couple of them go by. I did take a double take on it, but I knew that once in awhile a non artic would be assigned to it.
There's a shock. I thought they would run from only Bladensburg and Montgomery. Hmmm, I guess Bladnesburg will getting some of Northern's NABIs. There are still about 8 Neoplans sitting at Landover. I would say they are heading for Montgomery, but with 5301 and 5306 apparently running from Northern, those are up in the air of where they will go. I agree with Wayne, I have not seen any MANNs in service. I was tonight running the X2 and all I saw were NABIs, and a couple of Metro B 8900s.
I guess since Bladensburg got all of the new buses that came last year, (well, you know what) WMATA wants to spread the wealth, if you could spread the wealth with 21 artics.
I will be up in Silver Spring, unfortunately by car, tomorrow but I will try to take a pic of one of these things.
Don't freeze out there, it will be VERY cold.
How often do you suppose a neoplan will show up?
With so few of them, I think that would be impossible to tell. It all depends really on how many each division gets. If Northern received even a half dozen or so of them, with the number of runs on the 70, it could be a crap shoot to guess how many would show up on a given day. Especially since the S2 and S4 use artics, they could pop on there from time to time. If Montgomery gets some of them, then you may see them on the J or the Z lines quite a bit more often, but even then there are so many runs it would be hard to know what will show up when.
Depends on how many Northern got. If they got a fair amount, they should show up in less than 20 minutes. I will take a pic (if I don't freeze first), and then get something warm to eat. Hmmmm, 99 cent Whoppers, sounds like an idea.
Hopefully the little blubber I have on me can keep me warm, LOL!!
Not sure about how often they'll show, but I intend to wait at the Silver Spring Metro since they could show up on the 70, S2 & S4. Not to mention... maybe they'll show up on one of the Montgomery routes.
Happy riding guys and stay warm. It should be against the law to be so cold.
Wayne
You too! Its going to be even colder tomorrow. I think its supposed to warm up to a 'balmy' 35 over the weekend though!
Maybe we should convert to the Metric system but not change the whether forecast. In other words, have it be 35 C (95 F) this weekend. I do not like cold weather. Period.
That works for me!
I would have gotten a pic or two, but a friend borrowed my digital camera.
Wayne
I know the Georgia Avenue Line and the Benning Road Line are hotbeds of artics, but I have never associated artics with 16th Street. I always think Flx Metro B when I think 16th Street, though perhaps that is a bit dated. Still, though, as recently as this summer, I only remember seing Flxibles and the occasional Orion on 16th Street. Have they just started using artics here? Or was I just not looking hard enough?
The S2/S4 uses Metro B & D's and plenty of Orion V's as well. ...and of course there are some NABI's, but not many.
Wayne
Y7, Y8, and Q2 hardly has any artics nowadays now that the MAN's are out of service, but occasionally I would see a NABI Artic on those routes.
I remember when the X2 were the only ones to have artics when they first arrived. 5001-5043 all ran on the X2 and X4. Of course this route used to run from Capitol Heights to Lafayette Square. When the 5100s came some went on the X2,4 some went to Four Mile Run and to Montgomery, with the Four Mile Run artics going to Montgomery, years later.
Northern first got artics when half of Bladensburg's 5000 series (5001-5023 or 24) went to Northern to run on the 70, along with some of the 5100s. That's a brief history of WMATA's MANN's artics.
Along the way the 5000 series had their roll signs replaced, with electronic ones, the original silver bumpers replaced with black ones and last, the tilt-in windows replaced with the glide sash window. One odd note, in that even though the 5000s got electronic signs, the back ones never replaced, although all they said were "BYE". One other note was that the 5100s were among the first WMATA buses with "STOP REQUEST" signs. I don't remember if the original WMATA Neoplans had them. I only rode them once or twice.
I really need somebodys help,
I lost my work pager on the x38 tonight. If somebody found it, please email me. If not, does anybody have the list of the buses used on that line? I dont remember the run number, but I caught it between 6:15 and 6:20 tonight at 57th/Madison, so it should be fairly easy to determine which bus it was. I do not have the entire bus number, but I know for certain it was a 29xx. Please, if anybody can help me, or knows somebody to help me, please do! I will call the MTA Lost and Found tomorrow morning, but I figured it would help more if I had a exact bus number or run number even. Last year I lost my cell phone on NJTransit and they wanted the bus number, which I forgot.
Thanks Again!
Chris
You need to call the phone number or even better go down to the depot the bus runs out of and check with the crew dispatcher. If the operator found it and turned it in, that is where it would be. I would go very soon, however, something like a pager, please don't hold your breath.
BIG AL
Thats what I was figuring. Thanks
Ulmer Park has #2909-#2921-that may narrow it down. If you go to the Ulmer Park garage, they may have it. The MCI buses do get cleaned once they arrive back into the depot at night.
I called UP and they said they did not find the pager. I guess I have to buy a new one. Thanks again
Thanks to Troy from the Fairview Bus Depot, here is a the roster:
ROUTES: NJ127 (split route - Meadowlands), NJ128 (split route - Oradell and Howell), NJ154, NJ156, NJ158, NJ159 and NJ321
1986 B-10M Volvo Suburban: #9200, #9203, #9205, #9208, #9210-9214, #9216, #9220, #9224-9228, #9230-9232, #9234-9235, #9238-9244, #9246-9249, #9251-9252, #9256 and #9259
1989 Flxible Metro-B Suburban: #3058, #3066-3069, #3071-3072, #3075, #3094, #3098-3104, #3115, #3121, #3123, #3153, #3160, #3164-3166, #3170, #3175, #3178-3182, #3184, #3255-3256, #3264, #3277, #3500-3504, #3507-3510, #3512, #3515, #3548, #3561, #3564-3566, #3568, #3570, #3576-3577
Again, special thanks to Troy for his help! Market Street Bus Depot is next. Again, I'm doing this so the people of BusTalk can keep up to date with the latest.
Enjoy!
Ray
[ROUTES: NJ127 (split route - Meadowlands), NJ128 (split route - Oradell and Howell), NJ154, NJ156, NJ158, NJ159 and NJ321]
Thanks for the info.
I have been on Howell buses on the 321 in the AM Rush Hour, so I suspect that is a "(split route - Howell)".
Also, I recollect that in the distant past, the hourly mid-day service on the 321 would sometimes see 6000 series MCI Cruisers (in addition to the usual Flxible suburbans). Did Fairview garage have 6000's in the past?
I'm not really sure. I could say yes but I would get more info from Troy since he works at the Fairview garage.
Ray
NJT ROUTE 127 IS NOT SPLIT WITH ANY GARAGE. IT IS RUN BY THE MEADOWLANDS AND ONLY THE MEADOWLANDS. THE ONLY ROUTES WE HAVE SPLIT ARE THE 87 126 128 166 167 AND 190 LINES.
TONY M.
MEADOWLANDS GARAGE
Okay, thanks Tony. BTW, what other garages are split with the NJ87, NJ126, NJ128, NJ166, NJ167 and NJ190? Thanks again.
Ray
Well the NJ 87 is split between the Meadowlands and Greenville
NJ 126 is split between Meadowlands, Greenville, Ironbound, and Howell
NJ 128 is split between Meadowlands and Howell, (I think Fairview may do this very early morning trips on Sats and Sundays, I am not sure)
NJT 166 is split between Meadowlands and Oradell
NJT 167 is split between Meadowlands and Oradell
NJT 190 is split between Meadowlands and Wayne, I believe.
Tony M.
NJT Meadowlands.
I may be wrong someone doublecheck with me.
Fairview does the 128 overnight 7 days a week. One bus does the complete roundtrip.
Troy
Okay, so the Meadowlands Bus Depot has what routes?
NJ82, NJ83, NJ84, NJ85, NJ86, NJ87 (split), NJ121, NJ124, NJ126 (split), NJ127, NJ128 (split), NJ129, NJ166 (split), NJ167 (split), NJ181, NJ188, NJ190 (split), NJ308 (seasonal), NJ319 (split) and NJ320
Am I correct?
Ray
I beleave Route 308 is Howell since I rode that route once and I had a MC9A going to Six Flags and comming back it was a 102D3 CNG.
The Meadowlands has routes 82 83 84 85 86 87(split) 89 121 124 126(split) 129 166(split) 167 (split) 181 188 190(split) 319(split) and the 320.
Tony
We do split the 321 with Howell garage ( we have the majority ). At one time we did have about 15 6000 series MCIs on our roster. They were sent to Meadowlands in exchange for Flexs when several operators began complaining about the blind spots when they had to use them on Bergenline ave. I personally used 6373 every chance I could and shed my tears when she was sent to the Meadowlands. When Action Park was in operation Fairview used to do the summer service up there from PABT, 178st, Newark Penn Station and Willowbrook.
Troy
Thanks for the explanation.
It is somewhat of an anomaly to consistently ride on new D4000's and D4500's on the 320, but to frequently find Suburban Flxibles (3000's) on the 321, which is a somewhat longer route. Really can't complain though - the Flxibles are fairly comfortable for the most part.
Soon the Neoplan artics will be out there hopefully they will give a good ride also.
Troy
What's a Depor? It sounds French.
[...NJ128 (split route - Oradell and Howell)....]
IIRC, the 128 serves Boulevard East. Isn't that too far north for Howell?
Since the Howell trips are so long the buses wouldn't make it back for another trip so they stay up north and do either: 126,128,321 or go straight to Weehawken lot or 40st lot in Ny or a combination of them.
Troy
[Since the Howell trips are so long the buses wouldn't make it back for another trip so they stay up north and do either: 126,128,321 or go straight to Weehawken lot or 40st lot in Ny or a combination of them.]
I've seen Howell buses on many of those routes in the AM rush hour. Do Howell buses do anything similar in reverse in the PM rush hour?
They also do PM trips on the 128 and 321 lines.
Troy
Here it is!
http://www.btco.net/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=present;action=display;num=1043280599
Relly nice pic Adam!
Thanks! Glad you like the shot - Here are some more!
For more tech details and other banter about this new order, visit my forum!
Nice shots. The interior looks cool as well as the outside.
Very nice pictures!! The inside is definitely interesting. The seats will be a challenge to keep clean, though. I haven't seen too many seats that are so light in a bus before. I guess those babies will be hitting the streets too. Hmmm, it could be a Neoplan-fest by taking the artics down here, then making your way up to Baltimore. Of course, that will probably have to wait a few weeks for the Neoplans up there to roll.
Hmmm, it could be a Neoplan-fest by taking the artics down here, then making your way up to Baltimore.
And then make your way up to SEPTA in Philly for both standard and articulated Neoplans!
JD
I love it! I love the seats alot! I think this bus looks pretty inside and out!
BTW Adam,Did you drive one yet?
I second that! Nice looking bus, nice shots.
Well everyone is now jumping on the Neoplan bandwagon. Lets hope that when these Orion 07.501 coaches arrived (Grumman Fiasco waiting to happen), that the MTA wakes up, tells Pataki off about this buy New York shit and then orders some Neoplans and NABIs! (Though at this rate, It's only a dream)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
you can read more about the orion 7 by going to orionbus.com. daimler chrysler has high hopes for these babies claiming they passed the altoona shaker test. nyct awaits delivery of 325 hybrids and 125 cng 2003 orions. as far as neoplan goes as long as tom duane is in congress you will never see that bus on the streets of NY.
Yeah, Like I said, It's Only A Dream! :)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Very nice-looking bus. So that's the new Neoplan low floor? It looks good, but would look MUCH better in the good old reflective blue stripe. I am SO not feeling that new flag design.
The pics lead me to the following questions:
1) What's up with the "K" after the destination no.? Is that a garage or route assignment?
2) Does this new order mean curtains for more of their Flxible Metros? If so, which ones?
3) Which routes still have Flxibles on them these days?
4) How come they didn't go with NABI again this time? Everything since 1995 has been those...why not this time?
Let me know more about the above. Thanks!
-Fred
I will try to answer this one.
1)The letter next to the fleet number is the first letter of the garage that it is going to, which in this case, stands for Kirk. They have four garages, which are Bush, Northern, Eastern and Kirk.
2)Unfortunately, it does mean curtains for some more Flxibles, it is so sad to see them go but they are.
3)Can't exactly answer, but have seen the newer Flxibles 9200s and up usually running during non rush, I am not sure about the weekends.
4)I heard that Balt MTA and NABI had a falling out, that is why they went to Neoplan, even though I heard that NABI did place a bid for this latest order.
Adam could fill in the blanks and correct any wrongs that I have made.
Thanks for the info; wonder what ensued between MTA and NABI? And what Flxibles are on the outs?
-F.
According to Adam the remaining 8500s, 8600s and maybe the 8700s.
Whoa...they still run 8500s there? Awesome! And are the 30-foot 8600s still in regular service? When are these babies due to go "bye-bye"? Wonder if they'll bid for cheap, or what happens to them after they leave the routes?
-F.
There are a few according to Adam Paul and some 8600s. I do remember seeing some 8500 series that were 30' but didn't see any 8600 series that were 30'. They also have some 8700 series 30 footers as well, some of them in the new paint scheme. I did get to ride an 8600 series a couple of weeks ago, been trying to ride an 8500 series and 8700 series with a Cummins L10 engines. Even though the 8700 Cummins engines are the same as WMATA's 8971-75 ones with a Cummins engines, I just want to ride them anyway, the Flxible fan in me just want to.
Yeah...those Cummins L-10s sound great in a Metro...I recently rode one from SCVTA out of California and it was very smooth. I didn't realize they had 30-foot 1985 and 87 Flxibles; I thought the only ones they got were 1986. I really want to go there and ride one!
-F.
I am not sure the 1985 is in service, the 8700 shorties looks like they'll be in service for a good couple of years more.
That's good news...it gives me a little more time to get up there. Will the 40-foot 8700s stay in service for a while?
-F.
That depends on if the Neoplans will be a one for one replacement of the Flxibles. There are a very few 8500s and 8600s left. The 30 foot 8700s will most likely stay, not sure about the 40 footers.
Ugh...the new paint scheme. They look SO much better with the blue reflective stripe. Oh well, at least they left the black around the windows alone and did not paint the whole bus white. That would be REALLY tacky on a Flx.
-F.
Which routes still have Flxibles on them these days?
When I visited Baltimore last August, I saw numerous Flxibles operating through downtown on weekdays and Saturdays. I even saw some 1989 Flxibles operating on the weekends, so it's probably a good bet you'll still see some of the newer Flxibles out even when the Neoplans enter service.
Also, the routes operating into the Mondawmin metro station were mostly operated with Flxibles on the weekday morning I was there - I even caught one of the 30-foot Flx. 8700's on the 'Shuttlebug' route subbing for a Thomas low-floor.
JD
Hey, wow...how neat it must have been to see a baby Flx on the Shuttle Bug! I always wondered if those had a correlation with the Thomas SLFs. Did those replace smaller Flxibles?
A similar thing happened here with the Downtown Express; while SLFs are usually the bus of choice, our 91 Gilligs (6V92-powered) filled in for them as they were both in the shop all last week. The suits and skirts that work Downtown actually say the Gilligs ride and sound better than the "luxury" Thomas buses.
-F.
I was just on Adam's BTCO website and on their forum, another member spotted a Neoplan artic on the S2 last night. He didn't refer to the number, but it could mean that there are a few more popping up over there. I think this calls for a definite trip to Silver Spring this weekend!
At least 16 of the 21 are at Northern. I spotted 5302-5304, 5306-5308 5310,11 and 16 all on the 70 as I was driving down 7th Street today. So they did get more than half of them. I also saw 5222, formerly of Northern on Montgomery route Q2. There are still about 6-8 Neoplans still at Landover, it's up in the air where those will go.
Wow, Northern hit the jackpot! Thanks for the info. I think a trip on Saturday is defintely in order. Especially since my significant other is working all day, I may as well kill some time and have some fun!
GO WILD!!!
I was planning to take a pic of a Neoplan artic, ITS TOO DAMN COLD!!!
I walked about a block from the City Place Mall and felt that cold with pants on and being in the warmth of my house and car and work. So I didn't take a picture, but did see a slew of Neoplan artics on the 70 line. spotted were 5302-5304,5306-5308, 5310,5311 and 5316. I also saw some other good things. NABI 5222 has apparently been shipped from Northern to Montgomery, was spotted on the Q2. Also spotted 5207(Northern) and 5230(Bladensburg) rehabbed, the sides are clean, no advertisements, and 5230 looks like it had been out for more than a week. 5207 looks like it just got out about a couple of days ago. So 1C Ballston if you want to take a Neoplan on the 70, you have an excellent chance of getting one. Also I am another one that thinks that DD60s power those things. They sound almost like an MCI coach. I didn't get to see the take off, but with that type of engine, takeoff should be a breeze, almost a waste to put buses with that power on a route like that.
The possibilities of the Neoplans running from these garages are as follows:
Northern/Montgomery-among the highest
Northern only-among the highest
Northern/Bladensburg-Since Bladensburg got all of the new buses last year, that possibility might not happen
Northern/Bladensburg/Montgomery-Least likely to happen
Northern/another garage-It would be one of the biggest shocks I have seen.
You got that right... It's soooo cold out there. I saw 3 Neoplans today on the 70 line. One of them I wasn't close enough to get the number, but the other 2 were 5307 and 5316. It looks like Northern has the lion's share of them. I'm starting wonder if all of them will go to Northern.
Wayne
That's the $64,000 question.
I heard it's supposed to get up to a tropical 32 degrees tomorrow, so maybe you can get that shot. I even heard a forecast to reach a brutally hot 35 degrees on Saturday!
If only I wasn't working tomorrow. Next week we could see 40!!!. Great timing, as I am off next week, bus trips will occur and pics will be taken. Got plenty of film and I mean plenty of film. If we hit fifty, it will be time to dump those coats, put on them shorts and head out to the pool, LOL.
Yeah...we are gradually rising to the 30s and 40s within the next few days. I can't wait...it will feel just like SUMMERTIME...LOL! Those winds and the blowing snow sure have made bus stops a real bitch to stand at this week. Too bad I live in a town where there are only 5 bus stop shelters in the entire metropolitan area..and one if them is for city employees only!
How's the stop shelter situation in your neck of the woods?
-F.
I rode 5207 in Chinatown back in 1997; this was my first ride on an artic...not bad. It was still in the second scheme back then; is it still in those colors now? And wasn't that a NABI low floor?
It has been cold in SW VA as well; the wind chill factor went down to about 20 below some nights, with winds up to 40 MPH. Ice age much?
-F.
No - WMATA NABI's are all standard floor and all (or nearly all) of them are now in the new color scheme. The old scheme fit them well, but I think the new scheme works well on the NABI's too.
Wayne
The NABIs look a little better in the new paint scheme, but look just as good in the old one.
My bad...I meant high floor. I have yet to see the NABI in a new scheme; got any pics to put on BusTalk?
-F.
Here in philly it fell like -10f last night. That was very cold.
Here in SW VA, it is up to the 30s and 40s....just like summertime. I actually walked instead of riding the bus today to enjoy the weather; besides, I saved a little fare for a colder day!
-F.
1)Buy more artics(I know its a broken record, but Philly replaced their artics with more artics and NYCTA who before the mid 90s wouldn't buy an artic if they were told it could find gold now has about the highest amount of artics of any transit agency.
2)And more importantly, extend some routes into Virginia that now stop near to Virginia. Ones that come to mind are the S2,S4, 52 to the Pentagon and maybe a new 30's route bus to Rosslyn along with the G2 and maybe bring back the X4 and have that run from Minnesota Avenue to Rosslyn.
I know they aren't doing this right now with budget problems and the fact that they want more feeder routes.
But in the future, they should consider this extensions.
1. Consider a more diverse fleet. Yeah, this also has very little chance of happening from a financial standpoint, but a diverse fleet makes bus fanning a bit more exciting.
2. Ponder a terminating station subway link. Link the Shady Grove, Glenmont, Greenbelt, Largo town Center, New Carollton, Branch Avenue, Huntington, Springfield, and Vienna Stations via a perimeter rail line.
I would like the more diverse fleet. It would be nice to have one or two main bus models that run from each garage with another bus running only in one state. For example, Virginia would run along with Orions, maybe New Flyers, DC maybe Neoplans(they did do this with the first group of Neoplans -9500s), and for Maryland garages, NABIs.
There was on the board a proposal for something along those lines, a subway line that would run along the Capital Beltway and would link such subway stations such as New Carrolton, Greenbelt, Branch Avenue, Huntington, Springfield. It is supposed to be the Purple Line and officials in Maryland arguing over where the route should go, with the latest proposal being the start at Bethesda and going to Silver Spring and inside the Beltway, terminating for now at Greenbelt.
I also think there should be more buses going from Prince George's County into Virginia, via the Wilson Bridge. Both these areas are populated enough and the fare zones lifted to initiate this service. It might take people out of the cars and onto buses and also alleviate people who take the Metrorail from PG to Virginia.
I'm wondering what the ridership was like on the P13 that ran from Oxon Hill to Pentagon? I suppose the N11/N13 took it over, but maybe they should just extend those routes back up to the Pentagon instead. When the SmartMover started operation a few years ago, the media hailed it as the first route to travel from Maryland to VA. However, the P13 had been running for many years before that, so like usual, the media was incorrect. That reporter from the Washington Post, Lyndsey Layton, or whatever her name is, always humors me with the way she reports certain things at WMATA. Could she be more dramatic about the metro derailment the other day? Although I'm sure that it was scary to be on that car, it sounded much worse than it probably was.
An interesting route to consider could be having something go down Rte. 50 from Bowie and continue on NY Ave., then turn left into the 3rd street tunnel and over to the Pentagon. Now that there are HOV lanes on Rte. 50 in PG County, they may have an easier time getting through the traffic.
When I went to the Pentagon to bus watch, I spotted a decent amout of people riding the P13. I think that this route used to use Landover buses, definitely used Annex buses, when it was called Prince George's garage. They probably changed it to more resemble a rail line when they build it, going from the Branch Avenue to the King Street station.
That would be an interesting route. I had thought of one that would run from the New Carrolton Station, down route 50, down Kenilworth Avenue, stopping at the Potomac Avenue station, going on 395, stopping at L'Enfant station, going back on 395 south, stopping at the Pentagon, Landmark and ending at Springfield Metro Station. More of a compliment to the rail line(sort of anyway).
1) I would say Neoplan artics would be great to have in DC.
2) More service to VA would be a great thing for sure.
And, call me a pipe dreamer, but let me add something here...
3) A landscape full of new Flxibles would do WONDERS for WMATA, even if they are made in China and MCI won't budge with the real tooling. When I think MetroBus, I think Metros. I will miss them when they are gone, and they still look as modern as anything else there.
-F.
I've seen a handful of just washed, sparkling 42-43-4400 series Orion V's on the road while driving around recently. That got we wondering, does anyone here think this series is in line for rehabbing? Many of the 4200-4300-4400 series Orions look like the are in bad shape. The signs on most are rotted out and I've seen quite a few with malfunctioning automated voice systems.
Those signs have been problems practically since those buses arrived. You know you have a sign problem when you can't even see them AT NIGHT and they are working. Within a year or two, they should be going into rehabb, and hopefully they will replace those destination signs, with either the ones the 2100-2200s have or to orange signs. Of course after rehabb they will probably look more like the 2100s, except for the grill at the back left side on the 2100s.
Here in NYC. Green Lines have the buses that where to go to WMATA.
OrionV #5501-#5550. They had the same signs as the Current WMATA Orions. But Green Lines changed them to Ornage LED Signs in Summer of 2001.
They made a smart move. WMATA will probably change them when they are rehabbed in a year or two.
I remember the 2100s when they were brand new; 2164 was used as a demo by Orion sales reps on the East Coast fo some time in spring 2000. Did it enter service before or after this took place? I know if was built that March and that it still had that new bus smell when I saw it in May of that year. What a sparkling new bus that was!
-F.
After, most of them arrived at Landover around May of 2000 with the first bus entering service a couple of weeks later. The first one I saw in service was Arlington's 2151. 2164 runs from Southern. I was a bit shocked when I saw the one piece side destination signs. It was the first time since the Metro B 5100s that a WMATA bus had a one piece one.
One piece signs? Never seen anything otherwise...got pics? Sounds like 2164 hit our town before DC after all...it was here in early May.
-F.
The first I saw was Royal's (at the time) 2101 on the 10B route. I was standing at King & Washington Sts. in Alexandria and I heard it bark -- I knew it was something special then...too bad the damn 42-4400s are so crappy.
My all time favorite Orion V, if there even is one, is 2171. That's my birthday, 2/1/1971! I saw it once on the road awhile ago, but not since.
2171 is currenlty at Northern according to the roster. The Northern routes are the 52, 53, 54, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 70, 71, 96, 97 (split with Bladensburg), G2, H8, H9, K2, K6 (split with Montgomery), S1, S2, and S4.
Thanks! I'll have to hunt down Northern routes soon and maybe I'll bump into it.
If (more like when) WMATA sends the 4200-4400s in for rehab work, they'd most likely get the Luminator Horizon LED signs (as 4309 has); except for a few buses on the tail end of orders (such as the NJT MCI order), I don't believe Luminator still makes the MegaMax Flipdot signs anymore.
They'll probably get the LED all around light work also. The turn signals on the 4200-4400s are incadesent(sp?). After they come out they will look more like the 2100-2200 series, except the 4200 and up series will have orange destination signs and will not have the grills on the left side and on the back. They might get them on the front turn signals too.
Well it's not on Metro in 2003 but I wonder what buses are getting repowered though? I swear one day I was at Ballston and I heard a 9600 that sounded like a >4200 series.
I can't imagine much going on in the way of anything with the way they are trying to figure out ways to cut the budget deficit. It seems that they've pretty much finished repainting the buses they're going to into the new scheme. I can't believe the 9600's are 11 years old. They technically only have another year before their 'useful life' is over. But, they'll probably be around for another few years or so.
Many are being retrofitted with devices to burn diesel fuel differently as a way to 'help the environment'. Too bad nobody is doing more to just get the people on the buses in the first place.
It seems like a lot of larger transit systems, especially on the East Coast, are wising up when it comes to choosing how long to hold onto buses.
WMATA could have been rid of its 8700-series Flxibles for -five- years already, but they still have them as second-string buses. Quite simply, they just don't need to be retired. Same goes for the 9600-series Orions. Yes, those are technically up for replacement next year, but I wouldn't expect them to go anywhere for at least another 5-6 years.
Same kind of thing is going on in New York. Guess what? All of those wonderful 8000-8399 RTSs are a year "overdue" for retirement! As we all well know, retiring those right now is completely out of the question.
We can say the same for every single 40-foot Neoplan in SEPTA's fleet. They are all 1989 vintage or earlier. If buses lasted twelve years and no longer, SEPTA's only Neoplans would be the artics. I can't even fathom that. Obviously, neither could SEPTA.
The bottom line is that transit buses last longer than 12 years. And as all three of the aforementioned examples prove, decent maintenance pays off - it extends the useful life of a good bus rather than having to worry about new ones every 12 years. I wish more systems had this attitude...
As a taxpayer, I wish every transit system had this mentality, period. During the 1990's, it seems that too many systems have junked perfectly good equipment because the money was there to buy new vehicles.
I think the mentality will definitely change now out of necessity, since state and federal budgets are not as fat anymore and Joe Sixpack is going to want scarce tax dollars be used for school aid, seniors medical care, etc. instead of new buses. Use the maintenance records to determine which vehicles are still reliable and which are dogs. Replace the dogs as needed, and use the oldest vehicles for school and rush-hour trippers.
Jim D.
Ouch...that really makes you think. I always thought that allotment of funds for transit improvements was a good thing, but when I think of all those Flxibles and Fishbowls that went away due to money for new buses, it almost makes me question my political stance.
I have always fought for transit improvements (i.e. routes, etc.) but when it comes to retiring my favorite buses, I think "Why? Can't we just rehab them and retrofit lifts for a fraction of the cost?"
America is such a wasteful country. New buses are all very fine, but there are some good buses out there with plenty of life still left in them. London rehabs their double-deckers every 10 to 15 years, and Toronto does the same with their Fishbowls. WMATA, NYCTA, and a lot of other TAs could really learn from them....keep the good old buses out there and just give them new life.
-F.
WMATA Flxible New Looks lasted longer than NYCTA Flxibles. I thought the TA should of gave the Grummans another chance and had the New Look buses been retrofitted with W/C lifts, they *MIGHT* still be around today but that may have been too much to do so at the time. The progressing ADA laws really put the demise on the buses.
A few of them (WMATA) with the flipdot destination signs did have lifts and we still got rid of 'em
DASH (Alexandria Transit Company, Alexandria, VA) scrapped or otherwise eliminated their first buses (founded in 1984) from its fleet and they all had A/C, they didn't have lifts but we don't carry that daggum many ADA pax anyway, they ran as though they were about 2 years old because DASH keeps them so clean and pulls a bus off the street if an interior light burns out. Classic example of 'waste'
That's how Shuttle UM is or was at least when I drove there. We were to report any type of light outages, interior or exterior. I was driving my 30 foot Flx Metro B one night on a Graduate Housing run and when I did my pre trip inspection, the headlights were working, but halfway through my trip, I was called back to the dispatch office because it was reported that I had a light out. I get of the bus and am like, "What???" the lights were both working. Go back out, get called back in. This time, one light was out, but they let me finish and the fixed the loose wire or whatever was the problem. The maintenance dept. there did an awesome job keeping those buses running. They run hard, too, especially with the idiot drunk kids that ride at night going to the bars, toss their cookies or otherwise treat it like it was a toy.
I can't wait for April when the Shuttle UM is having as many alum come back as possible for a 30th anniversary reunion/roadeo.
Are you going to be driving the Shuttle for the reunion, or have you lost your rights to drive?
Chuck Greene
That's the big question a few of us have! I'd LOVE to drive for the reunion as I still have my CDL, but I don't know if they would let us drive, even in the parking lot since there could be insurance risks if something happened. Believe me, I'd love to get behind the wheel again, even if for just a few minutes. In 1996 or somewhere around there, which was a couple of years after I left, I judged one of the roadeos and asked if I could drive a bus through the course, but the one trainer said she didn't think so, but that I could drive my car through it. Luckily, I was very good friends with this person, otherwise, I would have taken my car and knocked down all of the cones!!! LOL
I have seen one of DASH's original buses sometimes running past my house, not sure of number. DASH does seem to keep their buses in tip top shape, which shouldn't be hard when you don't have that many buses to begin with.
Yeah...I agree with you. I wish GRTC in Richmond would have read your post before they started flooding their streets with Gillig low floors and parking their Flxible Metros...those were the pride of their fleet, and a beautiful sight throughout the downtown. Also, Blacksburg Transit (near me) has gone New Flyer-crazy, yet keeps their 1986-87 Flx Metros "mothballed" for such events as football games and tripper shuttles. The reason? ADA compliance. It's good to see they are still around, but why not retrofit lifts? Come on!
And right now, there is talk of retiring our 1991 Gilligs....gag if you will, but they sound SWEET with their 6V92/HT740 combo, and are the best-running buses here. And the suits who ride the Downtown Express think they ride and sound better than the flashy new Thomas SLF "luxury coaches" purchased specifically for that run. Just another forced funding example of keeping up with the Joneses!
-F.
I once posed a question to a Metro Manager about why they would not retrofit the RTS (which were at the time between 16 and 18 years old with about 2 million miles each) with wheelchair lifts. His reponse....
"It wouldn't be cost effective. The wheelchair lifts would run for $10,000. The RTS are not even worth that much."
There you Flx.
Well if you're talkin about WMATA Metro, I'd agree with him, our RTSes cost too much in maintenance
Where are your RTSes in service? And do you have Flxibles? If so, which is cheaper to operate?
-F.
Hmm...good point. That makes sense on paper. But come on...$10,000 versus $250,000 for a new bus? That's quite a jump there!
-F.
With the new technologies in fuel (really getting rid of sulphur), now former black smoking engines, now spew white smoke, if any at all.
Was behind a Four Mile Run Flxible B and that same bus that spewed black smoke now spews white smoke, some don't spew smoke at all.
OK...so that means the new fuels make a Flx run cleaner?
-F.
The new fuels might make an old look run cleaner. Sometimes all one has to do is take out something and it makes that thing better.
Sounds good. So how much more are the new fuels than the old?
-F.
I can't say for sure, they had a article about it about a year ago when WMATA was going to try this new fuel. I am pretty sure if costs an arm or a leg or in bus terms a wheel and an engine.
Our 91 Gilligs (6V92TA-powered) here are now bellowing blue smoke upon takeoff. Does that mean...
A) The rings, etc. are due for overhaul?
Or simply...
B) They are not running the new "cleaner" fuel you are discussing?
Let me know...I'm curious as to what's going on here!
-F.
Sounds like either something is wrong with the engine, or the fuel they are using is different from what WMATA is using and from a different supplier. Can't say for sure.
.....or a Smurf got sucked up into the engine!!!
Fa-la-li-la-la-la, fa-li-la, la......SHOMPF!!!! LOL!!!!
ROFL! That's what they get for thinking they're all cute!
I dunno. The last time I saw a bus emitting blue smoke, the engine broke down on the highway (a church trip) Granted, it was one of those ancient MCIs (older model than the MC-9) so that may have had something to do with it.
hmm i heven't really saw a bus leaking blue smoke before but i have saw a bus leaking jet black smoke beofre back in the day like in 92 i ssaw a 82 neoplans spelling jet black smoke you could not see the pack of it cars almost crash and it look like a big fire.
I remember I saw an Ikarus (2607) spewing blue smoke once. It's tail paipe was contorted in a wierd fashion and it was basicaly bleding blue. It blew all the way into the bus stop across the street where I was.
But blue smoke isn't that unusual. I've seen a number of RTS with it, it's just alot stronger than black smoke and the smell is less appealing.
Here's an interesting article I found on the Internet about blue exhaust smoke:
http://www.autosite.com/garage/repairqa/ques042.asp
It means they need engine overhauls....or just new engines. Blue smoke means they are burning oil.
Black smoke, they're cooking. (Bad fuel settings...)
White smoke, they're done.
Yeah, I figured as much. So what's the deal with this new fuel that makes them burn cleaner? Any truth behind that?
-F.
I dunno, I drive a brand new D60LF, and you should see the nice puff of smoke when I tromp on the throttle pedal to get out of a stop!!
WMATA a couple of years ago, wanted to get rid of buses after 15 years, which now is not going to happen. I believe the only way a bus should be scrapped, is if it can't run nomore. Most of WMATA's 8700s are in good running condition and a rebuild/repower could keep them running for at least ten more years. Alot of WMATA's new looks were also in good running condition, 6607, was one example. Buying new buses is nice, but if you don't really need them, keep em. Focus more on using that money to provide new routes, enhancing existing ones, that is what Alexandria's DASH did a couple of years ago.
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T REPLACE IT.
I defintiely agree. I was on 9608 this afternoon on the 1C coming home from work as I thought I would be in DC this afternoon helping to set up for a seminar, but no, they want me at the hotel at 6:30 AM tomorrow, so I had to take the bus both ways today. 9608, a 1992 Orion V, was running great. I also saw a couple 9200's, 9281 and 9287 and they were looking pretty good too. Its hard to believe the 8700-8900's are 16-17 years old. I'm sure they have a few more good years ahead of them, especially if they're only used for peak hour trips.
It is hard to believe that the 8700s are 16 to 17 years old. I was in middle school when those things first came. Everyone commented on how the bus was "jacked up". The 9200s looked best jacked up.
Yeah, they did look jacked up! Shuttle UM buses looked like that too in the beginning. The 9200's were my favorite Metro B's at that time. I had ridden the 8700-8900 ones, but when I saw the cool route number display on the back of the 9200's, those became my favorites. My first ride was a 922x, I think it was 9224 or 9225 on the C2 in the summer of 1988. I also remember letting my school bus go by in favor of taking 9227 to Northwestern High one morning in 1988 as well. Oops!!
LOL!!! My first 9200 ride was on 9282, a couple days in service. It nearly passed me and I had to run to catch. Aaaahhhhh, that new bus smell. I liked the 9200s also, which upsetted me when they took them out of Landover, hoping they'll return again.
HEY....so the Bredas will be getting rehabbed? Wonder what changes this will bring? Also, are the CNG buses going to be new, or will they be retrofitting older buses, i.e. the Flxibles? Quite curious!
-F.
All CNGs are/will be brand new, 400 some odd from New Flyer
The Bredas are currently being rehabbed, this will bring a brighter interior, improved "mechanicals", stop announcer signs (dont quote me on that) and a CAF-style interior.
So its offical that New Flyer will be getting the next CNG order?
So what's up with Orion? Bid difficulties, or does DC just want to give all a fair shake for variety?
-F.
I guess the back doors of the Orion 6s sort of got them off of buying Orion. I didn't think also they wanted to buy Orion 6 CNGs and they didn't want to take a chance on the Orion 7, so to New Flyer they went. I hear they might be going to New Flyer again for their next CNG purchase. After this one, will New Flyer get the next order slated for 2006-2007? WAY DOWN THE ROAD FOR THAT ONE.
OK...so when WMATA orders buses for 2006-07, which Flxibles will they replace? I was hoping to see Flxes still in service there through at least 2010 or so.
-F.
Those would be the Metro B's in the 8700-8900 range. There will still be the D's and E's around through 2010.
Man....I'll bet those Bredas will be something else with a brighter interior! And CNG New Flyers, eh? LFs, I suppose. Wonder if DC will ever get Inveros? Now THAT would keep WMATA a diverse fleet!
-F.
No stop announcer signs, they are essentially getting the GOH the Rohrs got and the updated interior. I wonder if they will get AC traction...
How old are these? Aren't they the ones that WMATA got right after receiving the last of the Metro Ds (4000-4100s)? If so, that would put them at about 1995 or so, which isn't very old at all. I would hope to see the older Flxibles rehabbed if that will keep them around.
-F.
These Orion V's are from 1997. They're coming up on a mid life, so I'm sure rehabbing wont be too far off in the future. I'm sure new destination signs will be put in. Maybe they'll all be retrofitted with orange ones instead, so they'd be consistent with 4309.
The 4300 series are falling apart. I see duct tape all over the steering wheel and the driver's seat as well as vandelism on passenger seats.
Very nice. But isn't a 1997 a little to young for a rehab?
-F.
Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't rehab them right yet. Those buses would be almost 6 years old. The Metro E's were only about 6-7 years old when they got rehabbed, so I bet in a year or so, they might get their updates.
Those are STILL too young for rehab...1995? They must beat the HELL out of those poor Flxibles!
-F.
Well, they repainted them, I'll say that much. Whether or not they actually redid the engines or anything like that, I really don't know. It could be more of just a paint job than a full scale rehabbing.
Hmm...let's hope they repower them with an L-10/Voith combo if that is ever the case.
-F.
Today I rode the 11C from Spring Valley and have a name question:
My bus and most of the bnsues parked there said Transports of Rockland, owned by Rockland County. Some had Coach USA ont eh siode and some also had Reda nd Tan under the front windshield.
Yhe question: WHo exactly is the operator- I though Red and Tan was bought by Coach USA but who or what is Transports of Rockland (they also havea diffferent color scheme)?
Transport of Rockland is the government agency that owns the routes and oversees the system (like MTA or NJ Transit). Coach USA is the contractor who operates the service.
On More Clarification........
I work for Coach USA/Rockland Coaches (The Red & Tan Lines)
As Kcram35000 stated, Transport of Rockland is the government agency that owns the routes and oversees the system (like MTA or NJ Transit). Coach USA is the contractor who operates the service. However that is 75% true!
We share the TOR contract with Coach USA/Short Line. While we, Rockland Coaches operates the Transport of Rockland Local Lines (The 59, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96A, 96B, 96C), Short Line operates the Express Lines (The Tappan Zee Express and the Cross Rockland Shuttle.)
Now the buses you saw with the Red & Tan under the front windshield and Coach USA through out the rest of the bust, are our MCI D4000 Cruisers that we recieved in 2001. Though we are now owned by Coach USA, our customers aren't used to seeing a Coach USA bus on thier lines, so to keep the confusion down, we placed Red & Tan wording on the front of the buses. Our next batch of MCI Cruisers will more than likely have that too, but will gain the newer Coach USA scheme which would allow for the name to be placed on the sides of the bus also.
What time where you in Spring Valley, I was the 3:30pm 11A to 41st St Term. I came in as the 11C at about 3:15pm?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Around 345pm. I got the bus after 4pm with the Green TOR scheme and no Coach USA and no Red and Tan logos any where on the road bus.
You just missed me!
[Today I rode the 11C from Spring Valley and have a name question:
My bus and most of the bnsues parked there said Transports of Rockland, owned by Rockland County.]
I followed Trevor's explanation, which was very clear to me. However, I wouldn't think a bus on the 11C would have said "Transport of Rockland." Normally, the 11C utilizes the New Jersey State MCI D4000's in the 84-8500 series.
It had the green color band and was a road bus. I think the number was 8692. The bus did have a fare box like NJT with the receipt and the receipt said TOR (Spelled out)
therewere transit type buses and road buses all in green stiep with TOR logo. On the way to GW Bridge Station I passed some int he Coaxh USA color scheme and those had red and tan under the windshield.
I also saw some all white jitneys run by Spring Valley (The Village Government-- Village of Spring Valley)
[It had the green color band and was a road bus. I think the number was 8692. The bus did have a fare box like NJT with the receipt and the receipt said TOR (Spelled out)]
I hope Trevor has the answer, but it would be extremely rare to never to see a green TOR bus on the 11C route. Rockland Coach/Coach USA operates the TOR local routes, so they operate the TOR transit buses. ShortLine/Coach USA runs the Tappan Zee express routes, so they operate the coaches owned by TOR. The 11C is definitely a Rockland Coach (non-TOR) route. All TOR buses are numbered in the 100 series, both transit buses and coaches. A number like 8692 (it would more likely be 8492) would be a NJ D4000 in Coach USA colors. Bottom line - the info you gave doesn't check out, unless there have been very recent changes.
No The information doesn't match, she's got here buses all mixed up and wrong, non of this makes sense! The ONLY Red & Tan bus used in TOR Service is 1160 on the 59 Express between Suffern and Spring Valley. And there is One 5200 Series that gets used on the Tappan Zee-Stony Point Shuttle. Other than that. NONE of this makes sense!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
With all the hype about WMATA's new Neoplans, there have been a lot of suggestions that WMATA buy more. I too tend to think that a large system like WMATA should have more than 66 artics, but I don't know the system well enough to suggest where they might use more. I would love to see a list of metrobus routes which are achin' for artics...
Definately the Q2 line, maybe Y8 also.
They really need some in Virginia on the 16 line in Columbia Pike. The 1 line could use them, but looping through Seven Corners is hard enough on a 40' bus because of the crazy turns it has to make through the parking lot thanks to mall management banishing the buses to the end of the mall. I'm sure the 42 could use them, too.
Artics are supposedly easier to manuever than a 40' with a smaller turning radius.
But I could be wrong.
That depends on the model, but generally, artics are easier to handle. I'm sure it's a different sensation driving one and it takes some getting use to, but think about it, in a New Flyer or Neoplan artic, the split is about 30/30, so it's practically like driving a 30-foot bus! NABI/Ikarus artics are more of a 40/20 split, so that's gotta be a little different. What I've found is that no matter what kind of bus you're driving, you get used to its turning habits in after about three turns.
Even 30s
42
Zs
Ys
Q2 (used to have more)
Js (all trips)
To Ballston 1C, if MD gets more Artics, more 40 footers could be freed up for your VA routes. Can Four Mile Run handle artics anyway? I don't think any have run from there on a regular basis.
I thought Four Mile Run was supposed to be able to handle artics. At one time, some of the NABI's were designated to run on the 16 line, but instead were sent elsewhere. But, I'm not sure if that was because they wouldn't fit in Four Mile Run, or the demand on other routes was greater. This was told to me at an Arlington County Transportation meeting a few years ago and I forgot all the details, but that was part of what I remembered.
More 40 footers out here would be nice, especially since most weekend service on VA routes are hourly. The only time they tend to run any more frequent is if they run on common portions. For example, the 1B and 1C run hourly on Saturday, but on the combined portion of their trips, its every half hour. But, if you go past a certain point where they split, its once an hour. That's one thing I never could figure out about service our here is why its so infrequent during parts of the day/week because the demand is there, but I'm guessing the resources aren't.
While we're on the subject of WMATA bus routes, can someone explain the meanings of WMATA's route numbering system. Is there is a difference between numeric only, alpha-numeric, and numeric-alpha routes? I live in the NY area but visit the DC area very often. I normally stay in Fairfax County while I'm there and use the Metro trains often, but rarely use the bus. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.
Number-Only Routes (DC-MD exclusive routes):
All run at least part of their route in DC. Some venture into Maryland, like the 81 and 83. Some like the 42 and the 30's stay in DC. None go into VA
Alpha Numeric Routes:
These routes run all or some of the time in MD and/or DC. Those that venture into VA will run part of their routes in DC or MD. Anotherwards, an alpha numeric route will never stay exclusively in VA. Many routes are grouped into the areas they serve:
R line (R1,2,5) is the Riggs Road Line
A line routes run mostly in Southeast DC
The only rotes that run from DC/MD directly to Va under this system is the B11 (Rosslyn to Bethesda), N11 and N13 (Both- Branch Avenue in southern P.G. County, MD to King Street)
Numeric Alpha Ruotes:
These routes run all or some of time in VA. Many of the lines are organized by number and the same logic used for the alpha numeric routes is applied here. Some routes like the 13's run into DC.
Hope this helps.
Also, the VA routes are mainly grouped by common routes. For example, the 1 line is broken out into several different routes: 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F and 1Z. 1D, E and Z are peak hour service. Actually, the 1Z runs express, bypassing Seven Corners. The 1F runs 7 days a week, but only at night on weekdays and Saturdays, but all day Sunday to Seven Corners.
The main routings for VA are something like this (I'll do an example of a few):
1-Wilson Blvd-Arlington Blvd. Line
2-Lee Highway
3-Lee Highway
4-Arlington Blvd
5-Dulles Access Road
7-I-395/Landmark Line
8-I-395/Duke St.
9-Rte. 1
10-Mt. Vernon Avenue/Washington St.
Since the maps are now available online at WMATA's website, you can see how the routes are grouped together.
38B and 13s are VA routes that go into DC
N7 goes from MD into DC
N11/N13 go from MD to VA (although use Four Mile for their garage)
The B11 is the only WMATA route to serve MD, DC, and VA. It is technically a MD route, has blue schedules, and operates from Montgomery
Here's my 2 cents
Montgomery:
J2-all artics
Q2- mostly artics
C2,4-mostly all artics
Y8-some artics
Zs-mostly artics
Northern:
70-all artics(looks like that is happening
Ss-some artics
52,54-some artics
Bladensburg:
X2-all artic(used to be)
G8-some artics
B2-some artics
Southern:
90-mostly artic
As-mostly artic
Landover:
T18-mostly artic, all artic during rush
P12-some artic
C28- mostly artic
F4-mostly, if not all artic
R12-couple of artics
V12-some artics
H11-some artics
Four Mile Run:
7s-mostly artic
9A-couple of artics
16-mostly if not all artics
Royal:
28-mostly artic
Annex:
C11-some artics
Arlington:
1s-some artics (mentioned by 1C Ballston)
I dont think WMATA has that many artics...hehe. Unless they order MORE.
Well that would be if WMATA ordered more artics, and the reason why they should order more artics. Some routes, like the J2,X2,16,90 need all artics. Also garages like Southern, Western and Royal would have to be retrofitted with lifts to handle artics.
Here is the entry on the WRP AWOL list for the Neoplan Artics.
The following buses have not been sighted and assigned to a division by a WRP observer:
5305, 5309, 5312-5315, 5317-5321
For the most recent complete AWOL list, please look back at previous posts or e-mail me.
That looks about right. I also noticed that Metro-B 8880 was on Landover's F6 yesterday. I believe 8880 came over from Four Mile Run.
Wayne
Yeah, they switched a lot of the upper 8800's over to Landover. My personal favorite was 8888 since that was one of the only ones, except 2222 that had all the same number. Too much time on my hands, I know!
Yea, 8875-86 went to Landover and 8887-8899 went to Southern/Annex.
Okay, here's Market Street:
Market Street Bus Depot
Routes: NJ72, NJ74, NJ160, NJ171, NJ175, NJ178, NJ182, NJ702, NJ703, NJ704, NJ705, NJ707, NJ709, NJ712, NJ722, NJ742, NJ744, NJ748, NJ758, NJ770
1989 Flxible Metro-B Suburban: 3093, 3107-3108, 3112, 3265, 3541-3544 and 3573
1994 Flxible Metro-D Suburban: 3701-3703, 3744
1994 Flxible Metro-D: 1801-1818, 1884-1885
1999-2000 NovaBus RTS-06: 1153-1184, 1270-1311
2002 MCI D4000: 7810-7811, 7941-7980
Any corrections are welcomed because I know there are.
Enjoy!
Ray
[1994 Flxible Metro-D Suburban: 3701-3703, 3744]
There are many more of these 1994 Flxibles at Market Street, as they pretty much dominate the 171 and 175 most of the time during the week.
Your right 3730 series. I have seen 3730-3737 on those lines
Tony
Special thanks to Tony M. (Flxible 870B) for giving me the corrections and to Trevor (Da Bus Ballatican) for his help in the rosters!
Meadowlands Bus Depot
Routes: NJ82, NJ83, NJ84, NJ85, NJ86, NJ87 (split – Meadowlands), NJ89, NJ121, NJ124, NJ126 (split – Ironbound, Greenville and Howell), NJ127, NJ129, NJ166 (split – Oradell), NJ167 (split – Oradell), NJ181, NJ188, NJ190 (split – Wayne), NJ319 (split – Egg Harbor), NJ320
1989 Flxible Metro-B Suburban: 3049-3050, 3060-3061, 3063, 3111, 3213, 3261, 3274, 3545-3546, 3571 and 3593
1995-1996 NovaBus RTS-06: 2601-2624, 2626-2647, 2769-2775
2001 MCI D4000: 7505-7541 (Buses #7531-7541 have lavatories)
2002 MCI D4000: 7420-7452, 8032-8041
2002 MCI D4500: 8230-8245
Again, I'm doing this so people can keep track of the latest. Again, thanks to Tony and Trevor for there help.
Enjoy!
Ray
[2002 MCI D4000: 7420-7452, 8032-8041}
Buses 7420-7452 are D4500's. Meadowlands also has 7400(or 01) thru 7418, which are D4000's. If anyone is wondering about bus 7419, it is a D4500 out of Howell garage.
1989 Flxible Metro-B Suburban: 3017, 3063, 3109, 3111, 3213, 3261, 3274, 3505, 3513, 3546, 3550, 3562, & 3571
1995-1996 NovaBus RTS-06: 2601-2624 2626-2647 2769-2775
2001 MCI D4000: 7505-7541 (Buses #7531-7541 have lavatories)
2002 MCI D4000: 8032-8038 7401-7418
2002 MCI D4500 : 7420-7421 7423-7441 7443-7452 8230-8245
Tony
Tony,
What happened to #7422 and #7442? Are they somewhere in NJ or they have not been built yet?
Ray
Both of those buses along with 7419 are at howell.
Thanks for the help!
Ray
Please forgive me. It's "Da Bus Ballatician" for Trevor. Sorry about that.
Ray
Ever seen or heard a bus with an interesting quirk that set it apart from other models or buses in the fleet? Well, I've had a few. A couple comming from the Grumman/Flxible series.
The first was the Flxible Sneeze. It was something I always looked forward to when I rode a Grumman or later a Flx Metro. On some buses they come in steady intervals, on others, they'd be a VERY nice surprise. The RTS could do the Flx sneeze, but not as well. It came out Vreer-rooosh instead of Vreeeeerf.
Another oddity was Flx rattling. Well, to me. The Grummans rattled like gunfire. Every bumb was dropping off of a mountain. Blam-BLAM-BLAM! The Metro's were a bit quieter, it was more Poka-poka-POKA! I think it was the windows that caused this, I don't know.
The deep base Flxibles were something I started hearing in 1997 starting with 2233. Now some of the Grummans were EXTREMELY loud, but the 2200s/2300s were pretty quiet. Until one day 2233 pulled up and it sounded just like an Eagle 10. When it pulled off it was the DEEPEST base you ever heard, besides RTS 2147 and 2068, and to add to the noise there was a sound like air rushing out of the exhaust pipe too fast and something frying. It was pretty nice. Some of the RTS made that sound too, most notably 2025, which was in pristine condition until her retirement in spring 2001 at 19 years old. After awhile about 35% of the Flxs had the deep base sound.
What fleet was this? Can you give us the entire fleet of buses?
Ray
It was the Houston Fleet of buses circa 1997. Here's a rundown of the fleet....
-Neoplan AN445 - 1150-1164
-Eagle 10 - 1255-1354
-Crown Artic - 1400-1449
-Neoplan AN460 - 1450-1503
-Grumman 870 - 1602, 1606, 1607, 1610, 1615, 1619, 1620, 1622, 1626, 1629, 1630, 1632, 1633, 1636, 1638, 1640, 1641, 1646, 1648, 1651, 1652, 1656, 1657, 1658, 1659, 1662, 1665, 1666, 1668, 1671, 1675, 1676, 1685
-RTS-04 - 1901-2188
-Flxible Metro A - 2200-2354
-Ikarus - 2400-2645, 2700-2753
-Mercedes Benz - 2770-2799
-Neoplan AN430 - 3000-3029
-Marco Polo - 3100-3150
-Neoplan AN445 - 3700-3761
-Ferroni - 3800-3849, 3900-3934
-New Flyer D40LF - 4000-4029
-Neoplan AN460 - 4400, 4500-4519
Here are the new Metro Neoplan AN460's:
ENJOY!
Great shots! 5309 is now off AWOL.
Do these buses have the Clever boxes to announce the stops?
look closely at my next post of the interior pics. the top pic shows it above the driver if you look closely
The classic picture is the one inside where the person is covering their face from your camera!
Hold on, I got pics also, they're coming as soon as I find a place to host them ;) Nice Pics
geocities for the time to be :)
Yea i saw it you should never take photo in front of people :)
Nice photo's they look kindy like septa on the inside what kind of specs they have!
Did my post work for anybody? Are you seeing beautiful Neoplan AN460's or hideous red X's? If you see red X's, please help me, I'm having trouble with the HTML on this forum.
Wow! They certainly put the SEPTA Neo artics to shame. I really like the way they have that second interior sign over the rear door. That's really unusual, but effective. I wish SEPTA had a similar mindset to put a second sign in the rear of our artics...
I wish septa would think before puting that slow engine in that neo artics. They should put like a ddc 60 in it.
At least the rear looks like a traditional Neoplan. If you go to my BUS-O-RAMA yahoo site, you can check out the weird look on the NJT Neoplans backside. Check it out and compare.
Yea I saw that on transitalk, talk about weird. I have never seen that back on a Neoplan. Is it because of the engine?
Nope, sorry. Hideous red Xs and I can't see what might be wrong.
Take that back, Geocities doesn't allow remote loading. Next time, give us the URLs to copy/paste.
Very nice!
Wow! Those Neoplan artics are breathtakingly beautiful vehicles. I have a few bones to pick with what WMATA did with them, though:
- They would look a lot sharper if the blue skirt were level with the rubrail. It looks kinda cheesy how there's that little white space between them.
- They totally messed up the front. I don't see any reason why the red stripes can't continue across that panel (part of the Neoplan design) like they do on the other buses. This would require shrinking the metrobus logo a bit, but that would be a fair trade-off. Also, for crying out loud, move the fleet number off that panel. That space to the left of it was made for fleet numbers! Just look at the AN-460-As in Pittsburgh...
- The light grey paneling on the interior (back wall, probably on the bulkhead too) is really nice, but those seats look like they belong in a nursery school classroom.
- Lastly, and this applies to most current metrobuses, what's with that new info label near the front curbside tire? I mean, it's useful information (looks to have phone number and website) but who would possibly look to the bottom left of the wheel for such info? They should have given this a little more thought...
All in all, though, very nice buses and very nice pictures! I look forward to reading more about these babies.
They have that same design on the newer rehabbed NABIs. 5212 from Northern has an odd, single red stripe over in the front.
Great pics, odd looking seats though. The sign over the back door is something new also, but great pics.
Great shots! They look handsome in the new paint scheme, although I still think wistfully of the AN440s in the '80s paint scheme . . .
Funky seats, no? Can't wait to ride one . . .
c
First time I've seen the LED sign over the rear door...
Yea i was about to comment on that looks nice to unique i like unique things on buses ext Septa New flyer with the back sign
OK, OK - so I just couldn't wait 'til the weekend. Well since I had some spare time this evening - and we seem to be having some relief from that brutal Siberian Express I decided to venture out in search of the Neoplans. Well first I rode Ride-On's '99 Gillig #5406 and unfortunately we were involved in an accident with one of those Chrysler minivans (Voyager, Caravan, Town & Country). I hope the B/O doesn't get penalized as the minivan's driver was totally at fault. Anyways, we had to continue the rest of that ride on Ride-On '99 Gillig 5394. At Silver Spring I caught Neoplan 5307 on the 70 and rode it to Georgia-New Hampshire Ave. Those buses are very quick. I'd love to ride one on the Montgomery routes. I crossed the street and waited for a N/B 70 back to Silver Spring. #'s 5309 & 5310 showed up together in typical 70 line fashion. I boarded 5309 and both buses leapfrogged up the line until we left 5310 for good. 5309 has a really loud squeaking noise where the two sections of the bus are joined.
Guys - I have the strangest feeling that Northern is going to end up with all 21 buses. I haven't seen a single NABI's on the 70 since I began seeing the Neoplans.
Wayne
I saw two NABIs on 70 today. I also rode 5303 for one stop out of silver spring station. Did you see the pics I've posted about 2 posts back?
Thanks for the report. I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I see that the 70 alternates between the Archives and Half and O, so now I don't know if I should just go down to the Archives and wait and just pay $1.10 on the metro, or go up to Silver Spring and pay $2.10. Hmmmmm. Anyway, I'll give my report tomorrow, too, if I end up on anything good!
What engine do these Neoplans have?
Sounds like a DD60 engine. Those buses seems like they have great take off.
Yeah, i too was amazed at how quick its acceleration is. So what makes the Cummins in the NABI's so sluggish?
That's a good question. The M11 is supposed to be as powerful as the DD60 engine, might be the tranny used. I know I have ridden on Baltimore MTA's NABIs with M11s and they have great acceleration and great speed.
Do those NABI's have Voith or Allison transmissions? They sound like Voith to me but I could be wrong.
The transmission on the WMATA and Baltimore NABI artics are actually ZF 5HP592, not a Voith, even though the gearboxes of the two trannys are amazingly similar (the more current ZFs - see the NJT Novas aand new Neo artics - have only three buttons for reverse, neutral, and drive).
Yes, I'm pretty sure it is the DD Series 60. If you hear the bus at idle you'd think it was a MCI D4000/4500 with the DD Series 60.
Wayne
If someone can tape it and put it online maybe us bus fans can tell. But itccould be a ddc60 does wmata use that bus for highways and things. Or you can emall wmata to.
Sounds like you had fun. I get my chance next week, when I am off. I get to ride one of those puppies. And when Baltimore's Neoplans come out, I will ride those too. I might be riding more Neoplans in the first two months than I have all my life, and I have ridden the ill fated original WMATA Neoplans, but can't remember much from that trip.
I remember riding the original Neoplans WMATA had, I rode them because they sounded exactly like the SEPTA Neoplans at the time, particularly the 8435-8584 series. Now I 'm hearing that the new Neo artics have Series 60 engines, like the Bee-Line buses, not the Series 50 that powers the SEPTA artics. And I`m curious what the NJT Neo artics sound like with the CAT engines.
Today, I decided to see whats up with the Q67. Its the only Queens Surface route that lurks around Southwest Queens(where I'm at). I got to Metro. Av./Fresh Pond Rd. at 11:50 A.M., after getting off the 9154 on the Q58. It took around 8 minutes for it to come(not bad for a route with a slow schedule). It was CNG Orion #448. Now get this, I was the only person on the bus, until 53 Pl., 3 people got on. Then at 48 St. 6 more people got on. When I reached Queens Plaza it only took 30 minute for the entire trip. It had a total of ten people, which includes me. It only stopped twice.
I hung around (7) and (N) station for awhile(waiting for the next Q67), I seen HP's 8517 that's been through a nice wash. I also saw CS's 532.
Later I took the Q67 again, it was CNG Orion #421. As soon as we start off 3 people get on, one was my friend who goes to F.K. Lane HS(he's a buff too, but I'm the one who got him interested in the bus world). So we both rode the Q67 to Metro Av. Once we reached 58 St., there was no else who rode the bus. It was just me and my friend on it. There was a total of 9 people, which includes the 2 of us.
My overall view of this route is that its an ignored version of the Q39. The Q67 just doesn't seem to stand out. Hell, I barely noticed the signs that it passes by. Even the Christ-the-King HS students don't even notice the Q67. Most of them use the (M) train, Q54, and even the Q38! Not even the people from Metro Mall take this bus to get to where they need to go. So if they killed the B18(which once had up to 20 riders around 7:00 P.M.), why are they keeping this route? Any comments or opinions are welcome.
Oh man, this bus route is just pathetic then, if it only had 9 people heading towards Queens Plaza and stopped TWICE then its a surplus to the Q39. Hey Ridgewood, at least you had company coming from QP or else you would of been all by yourself. People are missing out on a good alternative to the Q39 but oh well at least us busfans know different ways of getting to places. Now imagine the weekend...
Another reason why the Q39 is used a lot more because its pretty popular among Ridgewood Residents(esp. those who live around Forest Av.), they usually make up most of the riders on the Q39(to QP). Maybe if the Q67 were to go to Ridgewood, it would have more riders.
The Q67 has a odd terminal currently, it should be cut back to Metro Av train station or go to Ridgewood as you suggested. I'l look and see what improvements can be done to this line.
How about extended down to Forest / Putnam via Metropolitan and Forest (I know it follows another route(39) but doestn't same thing occur already with the 25/34 along Kissena from HH to Main St/Roosevelt(q17)
Maybe that can work, since Forest Av. is the only 2-way street that can take you towards the (M) line without dealing with insane trafic. It would be much better than Fresh Pond Rd., where the Q58 has to suffer. You've got to admit though, most Ridgewood streets are just too small to be used as a terminals, but there's another spot that can work. The Q67 should go down Forest a little more, than it should turn at 69 Av.(70 Av. going back the other way) towards Fresh Pond Rd.. I think this is good because it will completely avoid Myrtle Av.. It will then pass Fresh Pond Rd. and go on Cypress Hills St. for a few blocks, until it reaches Otto Rd.(and turns), it will terminate there. There's plenty of space to turn around to get back on Cypress Hills street. It just needs to pass under the Elevated freight track. Now the Q67 has a terminal thats seperate from the Q39's(at 60 Lane ,Cooper Av.).
Actually your idea is better because you already have the B20 terminating at that stop and it be a tight squeeze for both the Q67 and B20 sitting there
I speculate when the Queens Surfice routes are taken over by the TA if it ever happens then the Q-67 will be extended to Fresh Pond Rd/Putnam Ave to be near Fresh Pond Depot.
IMO the Q-67 will be a perfect fit for Fresh Pond
Thank You
Isn't the Q67 running on the franchise of the Borden Avenue streetcar line that used to be signed "Cemeteries"? I think it ran from the 34th Street Ferry zig-zag out to some point near the present terminus at Metropolitan Avenue. I recall some account talking of the coal stoves on these electric cars. The MTA Queens bus map, on the schedule side, calls the route Q67 Calvary Cemetery. Joe McMahon
YES, it's an old trolley car line.
I checked the Q67 schedule on the Queens Surface website (qsbus.com). Its best headway is 15 minutes (early AM and late afternoon PM) no doubt to accommodate workers in the industries along the route. Weekday base headway is approx 1/2 hour; dropping to one hour after 7:30 PM. Saturdays and Sundays are hourly headways. Obviously the ridership is just too small to support closer headways, especially off-peak.
I saw something on 5301 today, in that it has no bike rack. WHY!! It had one at the APTA convention, but does not have one now. None of the other Neoplan artics have one either. This is nothing new in that Royal still haven't gotten their bike racks yet. The bike racks must be on back order. Also 5207 which got out of rehabb about a couple of weeks ago doesn't have one, nor does 5208 and 5230. Maybe they should have gotten some during Ames going out of business sale and stocked up (just kidding you know) :-).
5317-5321 are still at Landover, which makes me wonder if they will all go to Northern, or might they go somewhere else, let me know what you think.
Will they go:
a)Northern-my choice, and some think would happen
b)Montgomery
c)Bladensburg
d)another garage
Also look for more Northern NABI artic and maybe some 40' bus moves.
It looks like Bladensburg has a lot of ex-Montgomery NABI's, especially after seeing 5237, 5241 and 5244 on the X2 today. I'm thinking that maybe 5317-5321 could be headed to Montgomery since they had MAN's running around there, too. I know Bladensburg did as well, but I wonder if more Montgomery NABI's will go there and allow the remaining Neoplans to head to Montgomery. That would be unfair for all 21 to end up at Northern, but I suppose it would be easier to keep track of them if they were at one place.
I can't wait for Four Mile Run to convert into a CNG facility. Those New Flyers move very swiftly. Very quiet too. I remember at the Arlington Fair over the summer, one of the New Flyers was on display and I was talking to the bus operator and he raved about how nice it was to drive. He said it was like a Cadillac compared to some of the other buses in the fleet.
Unfortunately, no sightings of New Flyers in the 2460's. I think I saw a 244x at Brookland, so that's the highest numbered one I've seen.
On a Metrorail note, I saw the highest series CAF trainset I've come across, 5104/5105.
Part of me thought that 5317-5321 may go to Bladensburg because they'd get heavily used on the X2, but I can also see them going to Montgomery. If the rest go to one depot I'm going to guess that they'll go to Montgomery. If they do... I won't rest until I ride one on the J2, Z line expresses and even the Q2.
Wayne
LOL, yeah, if they end up on a Montgomery route, another trip to Silver Spring will be in order!
Silver Spring will be Neoplan Heaven
That's for sure! As frequently as these buses run, you'll be able to get one pretty quickly.
They might be doing tours around the country, to other transits. I have seen 2459 alot lately, I wonder if that is a sign that the 2460s are coming. I have ridden alot of them and until I ride the Neoplans, I can't say which bus is the fastest, I would bet on the New Flyer number one, the Neoplan number two and the Orion six third.
It was finally my turn to take a trip to Silver Spring to see what was going on with the Neoplans. I arrived at the metro around 10:50 AM and within a few minutes a 70 was coming into the station and it was 5309! I took a camera with me and only took a couple of pictures. The 70 I took was on its way to Archives, so I had a nice long ride all the way down to Chinatown. Its a great ride down Georgia Ave. So much history along that street and I loved looking at the old row houses along the way. There was even a new store opening up called NY Fried Chicken. Is NYC really famous for chicken? I thought it was famous for pizza. WOW! LOL Anyway, the bus got packed and even picked up two wheelchairs along the way.
I headed for the back of the bus for a little bit, but chose to move up to the front half after awhile as it seemed like the better ride was up there. The electronic signs inside are cool. Not only do they give the street name, but they flash to the date and time, so it was constantly updating as we went along.
I saw 5301, 5306-5309 and 5316 Neoplans on the 70, plus two NABI's, 5206 and 5207. As Wayne mentioned yesterday about his ride on 5309, there is a loud constant squeak coming from the middle section of the bus, but the fact that it was a very nice bus overall made up for it. As we got to 7th and H, I saw a New Flyer C40LF on the 80 heading towards the Kennedy Center, so since I haven't ridden on one of those yet, I bailed off and jumped on that. I took 2388 to 16th and K where I switched to the S4, Flx Metro E 4060 and took that to Federal Triangle. I was hoping to maybe catch the 13A over to the Pentagon, but I missed it by about 10 minutes and it was almost an hour before the next one was due and my transfer was about to expire. So, I just walked down to Archives and took the Yellow line to Pentagon City and had lunch with my fiancee.
I saw several other Northern buses once I boarded the S4 and turned onto 11th Street. A lot of those buses had bike racks on them. I saw 2206 as well as a couple of other 2100 series Orion V's. I can't remember if 4060, the bus I was on had one, because it was so cold I just wanted to get on the thing.
Once I got home to Ballston, I saw a new ART (Arlington Transit) bus. It was a Startrans on a Ford chassis, number 5213. It has orange destination signs and a black bike rack on the front. I like these buses better than whatever other crap ART has. These are all CNG buses.
2388 that I was on flew. That was a very nice ride. Saw several other New Flyers on the D line and the 80. All NABI's on the X2. I remember seeing 5237, 5241 and 5244.
Other sightings were Orion VI 2028 on the F4 at Silver Spring and Metro D 9724 on the P6 at RI Ave. Station. I actually saw this bus again as I was on the 80 going along H St.
Very productive day overall.
Sounds like you had a great time! I rode Philly's Route 108 to the
Airport and got to ride one of the New Flyers. Every time the front doors open, an automated announcement says "Welcome to route 108, South, to the Phila International Airport". If the doors close too soon, part of the announcement is cut off. It’s pretty funny actually.
On the inside there is a scrolling sign, with the date and time and route, and major stop intersections are announced with a female voice. All in all, I say, well done. Many of SEPTA'S buses have the new CARD system and it seems to be working well.
Chuck Greene
You had a great bus riding adventure too! I like the way those signs work to describe the streets its passing. I think today was a great day to get out there as it wasn't as frigid as its been the past few days.
I had (2) tee-shirts on under my regular shirt, and yes, the dreaded long undies under my jeans. It was still cold when I was waiting for the bus. The only time I think it got half decent was late in the afternoon, when it went above freezing. I had to come home from work yesterday afternnon and put the hair dryer on my frozen pipes in the garage by my water softener. This is only a short run , but due to the extreme cold lately, they froze. I am putting some heating tape on them to be safe from now on. I know the buses were feeeling the effects of the cold, also.The one I was on had "sqeally brakes" at full application, although I don't think that's a cold problem?
Chuck Greene
Great! It looks like you have a pretty good trip. I had considered going further east and riding a C40LF too, but it was getting late and I didn't want to end up waiting longer than 20 min. for a bus to show up. I'll definitely go out again very soon for some more rides. I hope Wes and Oren enjoy their rides on the Neoplans too.
Wayne
Yeah, while I was pondering my rides, it dawned on me that I was going to cross paths with the C40LF's. I made great time by stumbling into the 80 that was coming down H St. They were running pretty frequently. It was definitely a lot of fun.
Its pretty funny that you, me and New Look Terrappin have all ended up on 5309. I think when we have our bus fan trip in July, we'll have to incorporate the 70 into the routine.
I hope Oren and Wes have fun, too! I'm looking forward to hearing their reports.
Now I can't wait for Baltimore MTA to have their Neoplans running.
Don't forget to let me know about the July bus trip. I'll be there!
Thanks, guys...
Chuck Greene
Do the Neoplans run on other lines like the Z Series Lines(Z3,Z8 comes into mind) and others too?
They're only at Northern division now, so only the 70 has seen service, but there is also the possibility of the S2, and S4 getting them. Montgomery runs those other routes that you mention and the first 16 out of 21 have ended up at Northern. Who knows where the other 5 go.
I guess that means that 5312-15 and 5305 are either still at Landover and or waiting to enter service at Northern. I wonder how many NABIs, Northern will send to Montgomery and Bladnesburg, and if they are going to send out any 40 footers. BTW, there are still 8 Neoplans at Landover, counted them myself. Might have thought WMATA did con job on us and gotten a couple more.
That was a great trip you had.
Yesterday the coolect thing happened to me; some time ago I mentioned an episode of "WKRP In Cincinnati" from 1981 where Dr. Johnny Fever was temporarily replaced by a yuppie morning guy. Just as he started spinning "Our Lips Are Sealed" by the Go-Gos, a Queen City Metro Flxible New Look rolls by outside the station building.
22 years later, I am tuning my headphones in to the "Flashback Cafe", an hourly 80s show on a local station while riding the bus. Guess what plays, and what happens next? My bus rolls right by the station that is playing it!
Not in Cin-Cin and this time it was a Gillig, but what a coincidence.
-F.
Were you riding that bus in Neptune, New Jersey?
I highly doubt it was Neptune. Unless there was a secret order of Gilligs purchased by the state of New Jersey that we're not aware of, I don't think it was Jersey.
You are correct, my mistake. The station "94.3 "The Point" (WJLK-FM, licensed to Asbury Park, but with studios in Neptune) has a show each weekday at noon called the "Flashback Cafe". During that show they do play songs like "Our Lips Are Sealed" by The Go Go's. That's why I jumped to that conclusion. Sorry!
Really? What a cool station that must be. Do they have live air broadcast at their website? The station here (Z101) does real time broadcast of what's playing on the local airwaves...just go to www.z101.net around 12 PM EST and you'll get to hear what I listen to every day at lunchtime.
If only we still ran Grumman 870s and Flxible New Looks like we did when the songs came out, then it would be a perfect retro ride. :)
-F.
No WAY a Gillig could survive in NJ...smaller towns, yes. But the rigors of Jersey? Puh-LEEZE!!! They do okay where I'm at, but we all know that's Flxible country up there. (And much to my delight.)
-F.
Actually, it was in Roanoke, Virginia. Did a similar thing happen in Neptune?
-F.
I don't venture east of the park often but for those of you who do go more often than I do, what would be the chances I get a Neoplan if I ventured to Silver Spring tomorrow?
I'd say you would have a pretty decent chance of getting one. I know 40 footers do end up on there from time to time, but a lot of people use that 70 line, so it may be needed then, too. Today, all artics were on the 70. Only two NABI's out of about 8 or so buses I saw. I was definitely going to let the NABI go by until a Neoplan showed up since they ran frequently today. But, luckily 5309 came in right away. I would have had 5307 if I missed 5309 as that bus was going Northbound on Georgia Ave. as we were crossing over Eastern Ave.
I agree. The 70 will still have relatively frequent serive on Sunday and I'm sure that from the late AM through the afternoon the chances of getting a Neoplan will be very good. Also - Remember... there's a chance of one showing up on the S2/S4 also.
Wayne
5303 showed up 45 seconds after i stepped off Q2. 5306 showed up about 5 minutes afterwards. So i'd say the chances are pretty good.
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I saw and borded NABI #6248 (Tempe Bolt Logo) Valley Metro Route #131 Eastbound at 13:35 Pm Friday 1/25. A Very odd sight to see Tempe's Bolt Logo on a route in Goodyear, AZ. The operator does a spit operation run on fridays on route 66 In Tempe (Los Arcos to Price/Gualdalupe) duuring morning rush 0508h till 915h and Route 131 1120h till 1941h with the same bus (Bus is CNG and refueled at Tempe Yard bewtween the lines)
[A Very odd sight to see Tempe's Bolt Logo on a route in Goodyear, AZ.]
Are there very many buses left in the Tempe Bolt Logo? I was under the impression (perhaps, from earlier posts here on BusTalk) that many Bolt Logo buses were being repainted into Valley Metro colors.
they are in the process of doing the repaint, hoever it takes a while to paint 185 buses. the average is 3 a week. they are 2/3 complete with the changeover.
Saw a Ride-On 1996 Orion V 556x rear ended by a cadillac on Rockville pike in front of Best Buys. Was unable to get the unit number because of the night and police lights. Passengers seem to be stranded inside the bus and My bus driver didnt bother picking them up although we were heading the same direction.
Lately i have been seeing all buses from Kingsbridge on the Bx16. then tonight i saw buses 5350 and 5305 on the Bx55.Have these busses switch depots?
Amtrak Modeling
No not really.The artics that are on the Bx55 are from Kingsbridge and the last I remember the Bx16 comes out of Gun Hill.The Bx10 comes out of Kingsbridge that I know real well.I tend to forget which buses come out which depot but there are also some that I don't forget.
NO NO. Remember buses 5250-5422 are out of Gunhill. Buses 5423-5505,5507,5508.
Buses 5506,5509 are at Quill.
Every bus I see on the BX16 has a kingsbridge Logo.
And the 2 busses I saw on the BX55 were Gunhill.
Well perhaps those two buses were on loan from GunHill because Kingsbridge was short on Artics.The Bx55 is definantly a Kingsbridge route.
No its not new assignment, found it out from here
January 17, 2003
T H E U R B A N T R A N S I T C L U B
RTS: 2514, NEW-FLYER ARTICULATED: 379, NEW-FLYER LOW-FLOOR CNG: 190, ORIONS: 812, MCI: 569, HYBRID ORIONS: 11, CNG ORIONS: 32, NEW-FLYER VIKINGS: 3, STORAGE RTS: 34, STORAGE ORIONS: 3, TOTAL: 4547.
MaBSTOA Bronx Division
RTS: 318, ORIONS: 259, HYBRID ORIONS: 6, NEW-FLYER ARTICULATED: 296, TOTAL: 879.
G u n H i l l D e p o t
Routes: Bx-4, Bx-5, Bx-8, Bx-12, Bx-14, Bx-17, Bx-22, Bx-25/26, Bx-27, Bx-28, Bx-29, Bx-30, Bx-31, Bx-34, Bx-39, Bx-40/42, Bx-55.
Articulated buses on - Bx-4, Bx-5, Bx-12, Bx-22, Bx-31 & Bx-39, Bx-40/42, Bx-55, rush hour also on Bx-25/26, Bx-28.
RTS: 137, NEW-FLYER ARTICULATED: 175, ORIONS: 10, TOTAL: 322. OUT OF SERVICE: NEW-FLYERS: 3.
RTS: 4326, 4329, 8033-8044, 8046-8065, 8067-8072, 8076-8085, 8087, 8089, 8879-8898, 9229-9249, 9444-9487. NEW-FLYERS: 5250-5423, 5508.
ORIONS: 402-403, 405-412. Out of Service: Zerega: 5320, At Atlantic Diesel: 5296, 5302.
K i n g s b r i d g e D e p o t
Rts: Bx-1, Bx-2, Bx-3, Bx-7, Bx-9, Bx-10, Bx-11, Bx-13, Bx-16, Bx-18, Bx-20, Bx-32, Bx-35, Bx-36, Bx-41.
Articulated buses on Bx-1, Bx-2, Bx-9, Bx-36, Bx-41.
RTS: 180, NEW-FLYER ARTICULATED: 121, TOTAL: 301. OUT OF SERVICE: RTS: 2, NEW-FLYERS: 1, TOTAL: 3.
From www.utcny.org
IMFAMOUSR143MAN
RTS: 3562, 3902, 3905, 3916, 3951, 3981, 4367, 4372, 4379-4380, 4382-4383, 4390, 4393-4394, 4399-4400, 4402, 4404, 4449, 4451, 4453, 4601, 4606, 4609-4613, 4615, 4617, 8086, 8807-8878, 8930, 8937, 9111-9139, 9655-9699. NEW-FLYERS: 1072-1109, 5424-5505, 5507.
Out of Service: At ENY Base Shop: 3562, 4617, Zerega: 5424.
The Bx16 is Kingsbridge, rode it today and I think the Bx55 is really Gun Hill now. I noticed that on the Bx10 and Bx16 today, they had Gun Hill AND Kingsbridge sharing runs. Is this done on weekends, all times when the buses run or was this a special? Thanx
I have seen the Bx16 runs shared by kingsbrigde and Gunhill. Only during rush hour. But then again I have noticed that Buses have yet to change there stickers.
Amtrak Modeling Inc.
Oh, so they're swapping buses too? I don't think that will be necessary but then again they swapped a route with all artics for a bus with all RTS's so I see the point.
Ok ok. If you noticed buses 5403-5423 are at Gunhill now. And Gunhill no has 175 artics
Amtrak Modeling Inc.
No, the Bx55 runs out of Gun Hill now, and the Bx16 out of KB.
I heard that Gun Hill may get the Bx55 a while back here at Bustalk, so I guess it's true. Well if you saw that then it must of been flipped with the Bx16.
The Bx55 is now out of Gun Hill, and Bx16 is out of Kingsbridge, this went into effect January 5th.
Bx55 went over to Gun Hill Depot from Kingsbridge Depot early this month when the new pick start 1/5/03.
DNJ
Yeah and buses #8862-8878 went to Kingsbridge whiel buses #5402-5422 went to Gun Hill.
Ray
Well I think it is better for Gunhill to get more Artics. I have noticed No that Kingsbridge has lost one Artic route their are more on other routes.
Amtrak Modeling Inc.
Yeah, lets see if they operate the Bx55 differently than Kingsbridge did. Well you still got Artics on the Bx1,2,9 & 41 and probably other routes in the rush hour.
Exacatly I think the only rush hour route would be the Bx36. But after that Gunhill should be a subsidized artic depot. To bad its to far for most routes. O well.
Amtrak Modeling Inc.
When I was in Vegas last week, I noticed there was some new 60 feet bus that were quite new. Their fleet number should be 50X. Is there anyone know what kind of bus they are?
Yes. CAT in Las Vegas has four Neoplan low-floor articulated buses numbered 506 to 509. They were delivered in mid 2002 and are CAT's third type of articulated bus. They also have New Flyer D60s and NABI 436s. All varieties sport three doors, and they are used on many more routes than just 301.
Really? I guess Neoplan is doing good in these two years.
Attached is a Neoplan AN460LF in Reno
Gillig Phantom
Yeah, expect something like that in Boston, but with a totally different windshield. Boston ordered 44 low-floor CNG Neoplan artics and 32 dual-mode low-floor Neoplan artics (or is it 32 CNGs and 44 dual-mode), all the dual-modes and a majority of the CNGs for Silver Line service in 2003. However, the artics for Boston are supposed to have the windshield similar to or different from the bus shown on http://www.allaboutsilverline.com.
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Shouldn't those numbers be higher than 506-509.I go to Las Vegas almost every year and the low 500's are NF D60HF's maybe it 576 to 579 for those Neoplan 460LF's
The new Neoplan artics are definitely in the 50x range. I am just now reading that there are actually six of them, 504 to 509. For whatever reason, they tucked them between two older New Flyer D60 orders. The New Flyer D60s are numbered in subseries in the low 500 range, specifically 500-503, 510-517, and 520-525.
CAT loves articulated buses and they have some goal of boasting a 50% articulated fleet. Expect there to be more artics (probably more Neoplans) and I'm sure they'll be jumping into the 580s and 590s with the next order.
They're fast running out of three-digit numbers.
what other transit has the same model of buses running?
By what was just posted here, RTC/Citifare in Reno has low-floor Neo artics as well. Other than those two, I don't know of any.
LOL...it'll be a while before they run out of three digit numbers. They haven't used 8xx or 9xx yet, and by the time they get ready to use those numbers, the few old 1xx and 2xx buses remaining in the fleet will probably be retired.
I was in Vegas for a few days in December, and despite doing a good bit of driving around and even going by one of the CAT depots, I didn't see any of the new artics, or any of the New Flyer CNGs. RATS!
It seems like everyone is happy with the newly arrived buses in MDTA, NJT, and WMATA. I particularly like the new NJT's AN460 with the new livery. That look is really cool~ :)
Anyway, here is also an AN460 which Muni has received lately from Neoplan too.
Enjoy,
Stephen
You're so right. There are also the newly arrived AN-460's at Westchester's (NY) Bee-Line and soon Baltimore MTA. I do think that the NJT new color scheme is amongst the best.
Wayne
[I do think that the NJT new color scheme is amongst the best.]
I agree, but I cringe at the thought it will be ruined soon once ads are placed over it. It is probably wishful thinking to hope that no ads will appear on the sides of those buses!
NJT is not gonna advertise on the Artics, It's a rule they have!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
They plaster ads all over the sides of the artics at WMATA. I already saw a small ad on the left trailer side of Neoplan 5307 and one other one, I can't remember the number. It wont be long before their covered inside and out. Although, I don't know if they'll advertise on the back over the vents. The NABIs in the new paint scheme don't seem to have ads in the back either, even though before they were repained they did.
I think the other one is 5304. It actually had it sitting in Landover.
I agree and I will keep you guys posted on when we will be getting our 36 Suburban style artics.
Troy
What Routes are they going to be on? The website said the 4 most crowded routes in North NJ would get the Suburban's??
They will be going to Fairview garage. They will be in service on the 154/156/158/159 and 321 lines.
Troy
Right! And the local routes that they'd appear on in Newark is the 13, 39 and 70! So in turn its WAY more than 4 routes!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor, does the NJ13 terminate at the Newark Penn Station (Bus Lanes)? Also, are those the ONLY local Artic routes (NJ13, NJ39 and NJ70)?
Ray
No there is also series 150 New York routes, in Which Fairview garage will be recieving some suburban artic buses, that will run locally throught out Hudson and some of Bergen County. I believe the lines are the 154, 156, 158, and 159 lines, with an occasional appearance on the 321.
Tony M
I was referring to the NON-New York Local routes that they will be appearing on which is the 13, 39 and 70. As oppose to the New York Commuter routes 154, 156, 158, 159 and 321.
I think we all got out signals crossed here! :)
Trev
The only lines that uses artics in the Penn Station Bus lanes is the 39 and that is limited rush hour and late evening service and the 70 which uses them on weekend service.
Troy
The 13 bus between Irvington and Nutley doesn't operate to Penn Station, but stays on Broad St in Downtown Newark. There is some limited service to Clifton, but the majority of 13 trips terminate in Nutley at the Big Tree garage.
[There is some limited service to Clifton, but the majority of 13 trips terminate in Nutley at the Big Tree garage.]
Actually, the service to Clifton is better than limited. Buses run to Clifton approximately every 30 minutes weekdays, Saturdays and Sundays.
I also see some Artics on the Secaucus Newark 78 line. That operates Via Harmon Meadow and the Secaucus Outlets, You may sometimes see an artic or two on there.
Tony
Been looking at the pics of all the new Neoplan artics, and it dawned on me that NJT's units may actually be shorter. Check the pics, then count the number of windows in the rear section. The NJT has one less window, and the third axle definitely appears to be closer to the joint than on the others.
Westchester Neoplan
WMATA Neoplan
San Francisco Muni Neoplan
NJT Neoplan
Hmmm! I think you're on to something there. I didn't think anyon offered 55-footers any longer.
Wayne
I thought that NABI still made 55ft buses.
No they make 60 foot most companys stop making them like in the 80s.
You know, for a while, NABI's website said they manufactured "a full line of 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, and 60 foot transit buses." That line seems a little too full to me. They run the gamut of length, but they never made any 50 or 55 foot buses.
Some of the first demo artics in the US in the mid 1970s were 54 feet. When they went into production by MAN and AM General in 1977, they were offered in 55 or 60 foot lengths. By 1983 or so, it became pretty clear that no one wanted 55 footers, so the SG 220 model was discontinued and all further artics (MAN and otherwise) were at least 59 feet.
Some NABI 436s do technically measure in at 59 feet, but they are considered 60 foot buses.
Let's see, who even had 55-footers?
- Chicago
- Charlotte
- Pittsburgh
Anyone else?
WMATA had 55 foot MAN's. The first batch of 1979's were.
while like i said if the ta spec that the bus will be 59 feet it will be 59 feet if not it will be 60 feet . I think to custom them i think cost more money to do it. I know that septa spec. the lenth of it's eldorada the wbsite side 28feet but the septa ones are 30 feet.
I windows if septa vovlos are 55 feet probaly not but i wondar if there is 65 foot artics out there, probaly in US.
I thought the maximum length for an articulated bus in the US was 62-feet, and that was met by Westchester County's Neoplan fleet...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
could be,i wondar if the Westchester neoplans can still acc. good.
Oh, yes it can, with a DD S60 @ 450HP when delivered, about 375-400HP now...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
ok go to see them pick up fast usaly the t-a usale goven them down and pick up like a septa neoplan artics.
Carlton, what a cool BusTalk handle...I LOVE it! Indeed, transit is the ONLY drug we need. Here are some that may not make the cut:
Opium Orion (A favorite among Shakespearians)
Percodan Prevost (Elvis would have liked this one)
RTS-486 (The Morning After Bus)
THC RTS
FLX Formula 9 (spray-on bus formula for balding riders)
Flxtasy (the later models of this substance are known as "E"...LOL)
NABI 420
...and let's not go into what was found in the frame cradles of early Grummans.
-F.
The Flx Is Yo Daddy.
I know THAT's right....LOL! How did you like my sick little brain tarts?
-F.
Flxible, I thank you very much for that comment about my handle...for more details about how I came up with it, let me know...it almost came to my head from a music CD...
Carlton
Transit Is My Drug
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
No problem. It's funny how things come about in your head....I actually entertained the thought of changing mine, but I like Flxible. It's simple and drives the point across...easy for others to remember, albeit sometimes misspelled. :)
-F.
People insist it's "Flexible" . Flxible Bus company was clever to leave the "e" out and drive people nuts.
Chuck Greene
Even better....where does "Flixible" come from?
-F.
I don't know. You spelled it Flixible. Is that what you meant?
Sorry, I'm confused!
Chuck Greene
No, no, no...belive me, I know how to spell "Flxible"...I've been riding them for over 26 years. What I meant was that sometimes people slip up on the board and spell it "Flixible"...that is what I was getting at. Hope I didn't cause a great confusion.
-Fred
>>>people slip up on the board and spell it "Flixible"<<<
Uhh, don't you mean that they misspell it "FLEXIBLE".
Peace,
ANDEE
Well, yes. Refer to the Flxible history post, and you'll see why. That is right on target.
-F.
Here ya Go:
The Flxible Company, not unlike many other companys had a modest, but unique beginning... In 1912, Hugo H. Young (founder and former president of the Flxible Co.), while operating a motorcycle sales agency in Mansfield Ohio. had a idea for a new type of motorcycle sidecar; one which would permit the third wheel to tilt and stay on the ground when the motorcycle leaned while going around curves either to the left or right. The sidecar was attached to the motorcycle with a "flexible" connection. This was a new and basic idea. It also allowed the sidecar wheel to rise over obstructions, or to drop below the road level without affecting the motorcycle's balance. The axle pivot of the sidecar wheel was slightly tilted which caused the sidecar wheel to always follow the direction of the motorcycle, whether rounding turns or on a straight course.
Young built a prototype sidecar for his own use. A traveling salesman friend saw the newly designed sidecar and realizing its great possibilities, urged him to patent and manufacture the sidecar. Young's patent was the fore-runner of the principle which is now known as knee-action in automobiles.
In 1913, Young founded the Flxible Side Car Company in Loudonville, Ohio to manufacture his patented vehicle. This original company was a partnership owned by Hugo Young and Carl F. Dudte. In 1914 they incorporated the Flexible Sidecar Co. for $25,000.
Young's sidecar went over in a big way. It was such an improvement over the other sidecars that it soon became the favorite of most motorcyclists. This was especially true for the riders in the dangerous sport of motorcycle sidecar racing. Soon all important sidecar racing records were held by race drivers whose cycles were equipped with Flexible Sidecars.
In 1916, the company built its own factory. In July of 1919 the directors decided to change the name from the Flexible Sidecar Co. to The Flxible Co., and increased capitalization to $500,000. It was then the name Flxible without the first E was copyrighted and that spelling has been exclusive to Flxible ever since. By 1919 the company had gained the distinction of being the worlds largest exclusive manufacturer of motorcycle sidecars.
Peace,
ANDEE
Andee! What a neat story!
Thanks!
Chuck Greene
If you want to learn the complete story, check out the book "Flxible: A History of the Bus and Company".
Jim D.
I actually picked up the same info over years of research. The basic history I would know, but the various prototypes, obscure information, and various photos are what would make me want to buy the book. I will do that someday when reading time and funds allow.
-F.
I probably won't change my handle because I like it too much. However, maybe in the future I will change it to "FreshPondExtraordinaire"(when its dominated by Novas), "NYCT RTS #9173", "DaRideNeverEnds" or even "PhatFarm FreshPond"(PFFP) because I love Phat Farm clothing.
It your going to change your handle, just make sure you don't use your real name, its just so plain.
I know. Well, you could always use an alter ego like Rip Tide (remember the WKRP post? :) or even Biff Wellington...LOL.
-F.
Busmember would be a good new handle, like Goldmember (Austin Powers), but unlike Goldmember not evil, or won't have his winkie made of a bus, though that might be impressive, unless it is shaped like an Orion II, LOL!!!
UGH...I'd just as soon not HAVE one if it's going to be shaped like an Orion II! If my hoo-ha is going to look like a bus, I'd prefer a Flxible New Look. 40 feet long and 102 inches wide. Now THAT'S something. :)
-F.
It also shows that the length from the 1st axle to the middle axle appears to be longer on the NJT's Neoplan. The three windows next to the middle also look like wider than other TA's Neoplan. Maybe that is a special specs ordered by NJT.
Stephen
Yeah, I just noticed that the first window seems longer than the 1st window of the others as well...
You know something, you are right I think though these have a man capacity of 60 seats, I know the volvos sit 67 . I am not sure how many our neoplans are gonna sit I think I heard between 59 and 62 I am not sure. But you are right they are indeed shorter.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
According to an NJT press release, they are 59-footers with 59 seats...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
the wheelbase between the first and second axle on NJT's artic looks longer. Perhaps they have a different split proportion?
Wow! Good call on that! I knew something looked slightly off on the NJ Transit Neos but could not quite put my finger on it.
It looks like the space between the last window and the back of the bus is slightly more than other orders. I would say if anything, NJ Transit's odd choice in powertrain reshaped the back. Have you seen the back of an NJ Transit 9500? Totally unlike other new Neoplans. It has to have something to do with the engine.
Hmmm, well what about SEPTA's Neoplans? They've got the 4 back windows, and 2 side doors. I see Muni's has a 3rd door in the middle. Do Westchester's and WMATA's Neoplans have mid-body doors?
WMATA has only 2 doors, and I believe so does Bee Line. San Francisco has a lot of artics with three doors and I believe also some of Las Vegas artics also.
The WMATA Neoplans have the standard 2 doors. The NJT Transit AN-460 is clearly a bit different, but it appears to indeed be a 60-footer. Perhaps it's available in different body/shell configurations. Another thought... Could the body/shell of suburban version be different from the transit version???
Wayne
Looks like a 38/22 split instead of a 35/25 split.
trhey all should be about the same size. They may look different due to the doors.
The press release on the NJT websight says that the Neoplans are 59 feet.
Troy
wow i than i guess it is for most trainsit vehical they are built to ta spec. not to the orignal spec. But still you can't really tell the different the differene bettween 60 feet and 59feet in person from far away.
Hmm....nice looking buses there. Those Neoplan artics really are sharp!
On the subject of odd-length buses, Gillig 30-footers are actually just 29 feet long....wonder where that extra 12 inches of bus went?
-F.
I went up Georgia Avenue today hoping to see more Neoplan artics, but to my dismay I did not see any, but did almost every 70 run using Flxible D 9700-9800s, including one from Montgomery that being 9721.
I am not sure if that one has been transferred to Northern or not but it was there. Also as much as the X2 used artics, I have never seen an artic on that route on Sundays. Has anyone ever seen an artic on any Sunday WMATA route. I hope that Oren hasn't taken his trip yet, he will be disappointed in not seeing them.
Lord, at least you saw Flxibles and not Orions! WMATA must mark their runs as "artic" or "non-artic". I guess that's a pretty standard practice, but back when our artics were in service, they were used interchangibly with 40-footers. You'd get a New Flyer D40 one day then a Neoplan AN-460-A the next day on the very same run.
I've never really noticed. I do know that the 70 uses the Metro-D on late night runs as well as many Sunday runs.
I'm about to head out and when I'm pass Georgia Ave I'll be sure to look to see what's on the 70 today.
Wayne
9721 is still at Montgomery, I saw it on the J2. I didn't get my Neoplan ride but did get my first ride on a WMATA C40LF on the 80. I will post a trip report very soon.
At least you were able to get a ride on the C40LF. I realized I was going to be able to do that yesterday, too and only had to wait a few mintues for the 80 right by the arch in Chinatown. I'd like to take a longer ride on the C40's so maybe I'll have to do another trip next time and try it.
You'll get your Neoplan ride in!
To All BusTalkers:
I will be starting a Bus Community for Busfans, you will be able to share photo's and chat 1 on 1 with other bus fans, This community will be dedicated to Bus Fans and bus fans only, The community will be ready within 1 hour from now.
-AcelaExpress2005
To All BusTalkers:
The NYC & Beyond Bus Community is now ready, PLEASE your BusTalk handles when signing into the Community. If you have any problems, just e-mail the Manager (Me).
http://groups.msn.com/NYCBeyondBusCommunity
-AcelaExpress2005
Believe it or not, the summer is not the only time the Q21 service is beefed up. The Q21 actually runs every 6 minutes during school hours (by school hours, I mean during the time when kids are arriving and leaving school).
You see, a lot of kids living in Howard Beach, Hamilton Beach, Lindenwood and Ozone Park attend school at Beach Channel High School in Rockaway Park, therefore they need the Q21.
Other than that, its back to every 90 minutes. I think it runs less than that.
Actually, the Q21 runs every 8 minutes in the AM rush, 36 PM rush and 72 min all other times, just unbelievable. Now in the summer, the headways for hours other than the rush is every 36 minutes all day.
My nearly lifetime of dealing with the Green Bus Lines, I have learned a few things. One of them is that you cannot go by what the map says. You actually have to see it. It runs as I stated in my earlier post. If I didn't just happen to be driving along Cross Bay Blvd. and see it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe it. Chances are that they are school trippers, but anybody can ride on them.
Any other routes that are "Franchise Holders" - Next to know service provided? , I can think of a few.
The first few that come to mind are...
Green:
- Q9A (already noted in another thread)
- Q22A (one school trip each in AM and PM, yet the route is SHORTER than the minimum school-to-home distance required to qualify for a student pass!)
Triboro: Q19
Queens Surface: Q103
Jamaica Buses: Q111 Cedarhurst extension (two daily round trips south of 147th Avenue)
I have been seeing on Q32 a few RTS buses with no depot stickers or ads running on q32. Any idea where they are from?
Did those buses have any #'s? And did they have the pipe sticking out from the back?
Did not see the #'s but they did have the pipes - they are not repowers.
Maybe they could've gone through a "wash", like the 8517 I seen on the Q32 on Friday.
Today, I went on a very early joyride, the earliest I've ever done. It started at 8am I was supposed to do something else around that time in Manhattan but there was a change of plans so it really started at 9:15[yeah, I know its too early, especially a Sunday].
So I start out by taking the 3 train from Penn Station to 14 St, transferred to the L train at 6 Av which I got a R143 took it to Myrtle Av, took the shuttle bus, RTS 4863. Had decent acceleration but not much open road to test the speed since roads are pretty narrow like Cooper Av & Wyckoff Av. So I arrive at Broadway Junction to hop on the A, TWO C trains come and go before a R44 A train finally shows up. So I ride the A to 80 St to transfer to the shuttle bus that replaced A trains to Lefferts Blvd. So I hop on Orion 562 and I take it to Lefferts, where I just miss a Q10 but the consistency of the line prevailed.
So I get a GM RTS, the Q10 driver drives good, beat a few lights so I ride it to the last stop walk to Queens Blvd where the Q60 is right there [thank goodness]. So I get on TMC RTS 1158 and the driver does ok but slows up from Hillside Av until I get off at Sutphin Blvd where I would get off to take the Q44. I let Q20A 656 go by since I was heading toward the Bronx then Orion 6126 shows up a few minutes later and I get on it, driver gives good speed at first but goes no more than 20mph even on open roads via Main St until we get stuck in traffic in Flushing, missing 3 lights before we finally pass Kissena Blvd. The Q20A would pass us and we make a driver change at 39 Av. I was hoping a QBx1 would come but its every 1/2 hour and none was anywehre near coming so I stuck with the 44.
Then the new driver does better than the first driver in terms of speed, then we head over the Whitestone Bridge and I notice that in a dirtyard, there was art showing the name LISA and the American flag; did others see this? [sit on the right side of the Q44 or QBx1 near the Bronx end of the Whitestone]. Anyway, I take it to the last stop then I see the Bx36 and I run for it from Devoe Av and the driver waited for myself and 2 other people, told him thanks and we were off. So I get on 9132 and we do pretty good overall, had a good crowd and went about 40mph down the stretch on Webster Av. Then we do the turn onto East Tremont Av [I like that turn], catch up to the bus in front; RTS 9677; and I ride it to Grand Concourse where I will wait for the Bx1/2.
I'll continue in a next post.
Yeah, Wyckoff Av. and Cooper Av. are small street. I remember last there was a street festival on Myrtle Av.(I love those festivals because they sell bootleg music CD's) and the Q55 had to an alternate path. I rode the Q55 that day. So it went on Wyckoff Av., then it turned left at Cooper Av.(under the Elevated Fright Line) then it turned at 62 St.(where the B13 goes toward Myrtle Av.). Those turns on the (L) shuttle are not as bad as ones the B13 must do. @_@
You guys on the L always seem to get stuck with a shuttle bus almost every weekend of the year, next week no train service from Lorimer St to Broadway Junction, I'll be riding that shuttle bus no doubt about it.
They should just make Cooper Av a one way street. Those streets like Gates Av, Dekalb Av when it turns two way is annoying, especially for buses. You think Wyckoff Av got it bad, look at Holly Av on the Q27, it is far WORSE no two way marker and so on. Wel yeah you're right, the turns aren't as bad as the B13, especially turning from Gates Av onto Grandview Av and the squiggly roadway of Cypress Hills St.
"We head over the Whitestone Bridge and I notice that in a dirtyard, there was art showing the name LISA and the American flag; did others see this? [sit on the right side of the Q44 or QBx1 near the Bronx end of the Whitestone]. "
The artwork in the Golf Course is suppose to say USA . Its been there since 10/01. Guess they need to fix the gravel .. It does look funny looking like " Lisa "
Tazz ( Whitestone )
Well, haven't rode the bus over the bridge in a while :0). I know it said USA but it looks like its been neglected or something b/c now it looks more like LISA as of late LOL. They should of made the 'U' more round at least.
The 44 operator was going slow and killing lights because the 44 has too much time built into it on the weekends on the southern portion between Flushing and Jamaica.
The LISA you refer to is supposed to say USA.
Started on the J2 (Flxible 4058, M) which I took to Silver Spring. Sign wasn't working on this bus. Talked with the driver who told me that the Neoplans would not be coming to Montgomery. At Silver Spring, I saw Orion V 2118, among others, with a camera on the outside. I spent a good 45 minutes at Silver Spring watching comings and goings, but after 4 70 drivers told me they had either not seen Neoplans or they weren't running period, I decided to go elsewhere. Also saw 9744 (N) without a rack and 5724 with a banner for Conrad Johnson. Got on the Red Line (Breda 3206) and took it to Fort Totten. I saw a CNG bus there signed NOT IN SERVICE, and figured it would go in as an 80. It didn't, and eventually another C40LF (2438) came along for the 80 run. It was my first time on a WMATA C40LF (I rode one on the B63 in New York). The seats were not too bad. I did not like how the Clever box announced the transfers for the Metro before it said the station name. For example:
Transfer is available to the Red Line.
BONG
Connecticut Avenue
Saw a number of other CNGs but nothing in the 2460 or higher range. Driver of the 80 didn't want to talk about anything when I got off at Farragut Square. Took the Red Line (Rohr 1254) and T2 (Gillig 5373) home. Snow all over the grass and just starting to stick to the sidewalk when I was walking home.
Those C40LF's are incredibly fast, don't you think?
2388, the one I was on yesterday, had great pickup. I'm looking forward to taking another trip on those. I know they use them a lot on the 86, so I may have to take a trip up to RI Ave. station and then take the 86 up to College Park and see what's going on at Univ. of MD, or something like that. Actually, a longer run on the 80 could be fun, too. Maybe get the 38B, take that to K St., transfer to the 80, take that to Fort Totten and take the Green Line around a bit. We'll see when I have a day to do something like that!
Yes, they accelerate quite nicely.
Oh yea they are. When I first rode them, about a couple of days when they first came out, I got 2393 and boy did that bus fly down Minnesota Avenue. Also when I was following another, it was going 70 miles + down route 50. IC Ballston talked to a driver who said they drive like Cadillacs. They may drive like Cadillacs, but they speed more like Porches.
Fort Totten would be considered CNG city. All of those routes run from Bladensburg, so there you have about an 100% chance of getting one there. I think that is the only station in DC where you can find such an arrangement. Minnesota Avenue would be the next best chance to get one.
Brookland would also be good with all the H buses coming through.
I forgot about Brookland. Home of most of the Rs.
I saw 2219 there and a few other Western buses on the Es, and the K6 is from Montgomery, but otherwise, yes, that is CNG city. Brrokland was ALL CNGs, too.
2219 was displaying the usual on the side sign, correct reading except no route number displayed. This bus has never displayed a route on the side. I saw it today on Wisconsin Avenue but couldn't see the sign.
Ok, here's where I left off.
So I'm on the Grand Concourse and I see Artic 1100 with a crowd approaching Tremont Av. So I was lucky enough to find a seat in the back then we had a lady with a walker, which took some time. The other day, I said the Bx1/2 may not need LTD service on Sunday since the D train was underneath well the Bx1/2 could use Sunday LTD service. I still don't think its needed but the crowds would make it justified. Back to the story, we're stopping at every stop then at East 183 St, these dumbass kids put a stink bomb in the back of the bus, making it smelly through the whole 60' and where I was sitting the sliding window was not near me. So people got up, ran to the fresh air and was covering their noses [including me] it was discusting and very stupid :-\.
So I get off at Fordham Rd b/c of the stink smell and we were going slow plus there was a long line at Fordham. So I go downstairs to the D train and its VERY COLD down there, its full of leaks, the train takes about 15 minutes to come and on the mezzanine, I noticed that someone vomited there [very discusting sight]. I take a R68 only to find out we have to switch to a shuttle train at Bedford Park Blvd, but its right there so no inconvenience. I go outside and wait for the Bx16 & it takes about 20-30 minutes to come and take the passengers [it was parked there for a good minute]. TWO Bx10's and TWO Bx30's come and go before the 16 finally comes, 8822 takes me I get the front seat :-) and we're off. Very good speed via East 233 St, Nereid Av & Jerome Av[through Woodlawn] we nearly got cut off by a Escalade at Nereid/WPR and by a Lexus while we were turning from Baychester to E 233, driver curses at them LOL.
Told him thanks, then I go to try and catch the Redbird 5 train but I just missed it, so I wait 15 minutes before the next 5 comes only to find out its a shuttle train to E 180 St; THIS WAS NOT IN THE MTA SERVICE ADVISORY SHEET >:-o. Anyway I hop on the R142, take it to E 180 St, a test train comes on the MB 2 train track, stays there, gets people angry it starts to snow lightly and I'm mad b/c it took 15-20 minutes to come. I hop on another R142 but on the 2, took it to 149 St/GC took the 5 to Union Sq, then just caught the Brooklyn bound Q took that to Newkirk then took NF 841 home.
Observations:
*I saw THREE buses operating the Bx16 [8822, 8868 & 8xxx]
*CS buses I rode were filthy on the outside
*8867-8878 is now in KB but still have Gun Hill stickers, which I thought the 10 & 16 was split.
R68A 5182 (Q)
R62A 1907 (3)
R143 8128 (L)
RTS 4863 L SHUTTLE
R44 5269 (A)
Orion 562 A SHUTTLE
GBL RTS 248 Q10
GBL RTS 1158 Q60
Orion 6126 Q44
RTS 9132 Bx36
NF Artic 1100 Bx2
R68 2684 (D)
R68 2600 (D) Shuttle train
RTS 8822 Bx16
R142 6750 (5) Shuttle train
R142 6745 (2)
R142 6817 (5)
R68 2755 (Q)
NF 841 B8
take the Bx16 the opposite way and you will pass through 3 different cities Westbound
Bronx(NYC), Mount Vernon, Bronx, Yonkers (slightly), and Bronx.
Boy, are you guys going to hate me. I got the roster but it's old. I got a bunch of 6000s in this roster which I know is definitely not true. Again, I would like to thnak Troy, Tony M. and Trevor for their help in this. Here is the roster:
Oradell Bus Depot
Routes: NJ144, NJ145, NJ148, NJ155, NJ157, NJ162, NJ163, NJ165, NJ166 (split – Meadowlands), NJ167 (split – Meadowlands), NJ168, NJ186
1982-1984 MCI MC-9A: 6116, 6118, 6136-6137, 6143, 6148, 6174, 6186, 6201, 6204, 6215, 6236, 6283-6284, 6287-6288, 6291, 6293-6294, 6296, 6299, 6302, 6304-6305, 6308-6309, 6311-6315, 6317, 6320, 6322, 6324-6327, 6329-6331, 6333, 6338-6339, 6341-6439, 6351, 6354-6356, 6362-6363, 6366-6368, 6370, 6375-6383, 6385, 6387-6389, 6400-6411, 6413, 6421-6422, 6425-6427, 6429, 6431-6432, 6434, 6442, 6446-6447, 6449, 6452-6453, 6455-6456, 6460, 6465, 6469-6470, 6475-6477, 6479-6480, 6485, 6493, 6496, 6502, 6504-6507, 6509-6511, 6527, 6556, 6563, 6565, 6572, 6577-6578, 6678, 6680
1994 Flxible Metro-D Suburban: 3738-3741
2001 MCI D4000: 7567-7617
2002 MCI D4000: 7484-7491, 7686-7755, 7822-7879, 8971-8990
2003 MCI D4500: 7674-7683
[2003 MCI D4500: 7674-7683]
According to Dave Mackey's site, these buses are D4000's, not D4500's (and they are at Egg Harbor!). I am pretty sure there are no D4500's at Oradell, only D4000's (as a matter of fact, ONLY D4000's). All D4500's on the 166 and 167 come out of Meadowlands garage.
Not to be outdone, here's the Wayne Bus Depot Roster:
Wayne Bus Depot
Routes: NJ75, NJ161, NJ190 (split – Meadowlands), NJ191, NJ192, NJ193, NJ194, NJ195, NJ196, NJ197
1987 MCI MC-9B: 5000-5002, 5004-5005, 5007-5010, 5013-5015, 5017-5018, 5029, 5031, 5033-5038, 5040-5041, 5043-5044, 5047, 5049-5050, 5052, 5054-5055, 5068, 5070-5072, 5075, 5077-5080, 5084-5085, 5088-5099, 5123, 5125, 5127, 5129-5133, 5193, 5295, 5297-5299, 5301, 5303-5306, 5341-5347, 5349-5351
1989 Flxible Metro-B Suburban: 3022-3025, 3027, 3044, 3076-3081, 3116-3117, 3172-3173, 3185, 3516-3519, 3521-3524, 3527-3528, 3530-3531 and 3533-3540
2002 MCI D4000: 7618-7673, 7880-7933, 8025, 8269-8291
2002 MCI D4500: 8292-8304
As an operator out of Wayne, I'd like to change the follwing:
1. There are no longer any Flexible Metros or MC-s assigned to the depot
The list shoud go as follows
2002 MCI D4000: 7619-7633(Carry both New York and New Jersey registrations. They are used on Warwick New York 196/197 service
2002 D4000: 7634-7671, 7900-7948, 8025, 8110, 8269-8291
2002 D4500: 8201-8210, 8292-8322
Just came in last Sat night, Flxible Metro B 3528 and 3556, these buses have been rehabbed and saved from the scrap heap.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Tony,
How have these buses been rehabbed? What's different about them?
Ray
P.S. Which Nova have the NEW Orange Destination signs? I know #2626 does.
The Flxibles got all new seats, new motors and Transmissions, new dest sign, some style though. However, they took the baggage racks out and they all have fareboxes in them. The nova rehabs are 2620 and 2636, however 2620 has the better flooring like the 99 novas 36 does not.
Tony
Thanks Tony! Last question, what kind of engines do the Flxibles have? Same type or a little different?
Ray
The same type, just rebuilt engines, meaning these buses gained more power!
Tony M.
I thought you guys had 8025-8031? They took our 8039-8041 and gave them to Ironbound.
Tony
You're right, I forgot about those buses.
I was thinking of using my car to go to my store, but even with the cold, I decided to bus it. I started off just missing a The Bus Gillig to start my trip, but had to settle for WMATA Flxible 8805, with a non working sign also, (F14-Landover, bus Landover, Flxible B).
Before I got 8805 saw 3934 on a training run. Anyway got up to New Carrolton and caught an F4 Orion (Orion 6, WMATA, F4-Landover, bus Landover). I just missed an F6, possibly an ex Southern Orion 6.
I got on the F4, by the way this bus had digital cameras on the inside with two in the front, one pointed towards the back, one pointed out the front of the bus, as well as another one around the middle of the bus. I saw another training bus, this one being far way where it should be. It was 5183 from Southern and why it was doing driver training on Riverdale Road was beyond me. I got to Silver Spring and instantly saw..........
9223 about to be towed back to Montgomery. It took awhile but it got going. Oh by the way there was not a Neoplan there, but a NABI 5208. I waited after 5208 to leave to see if a Neoplan would show up, but another NABI showed up and I decided to go to the post office to mail some letters. As I crossed the street to the post office, BOOM!! here comes a Neoplan which turned out to be 5311. I stood in the post office line waiting just to get some stamps, and luckily the line went fast enough to get me to catch that bus.
I got on 5311 and realized how nice it looked, and as I sit down, realized something else. I will in the future have to find a seat with enough space to fit me. The ride was enjoyable, and this bus really hauls. Alot of the people who rode the bus were pleased they got a new bus, but one fellow was doing his Joe Isuzu impression in saying that the bus was not new, they just put the bus together from spare parts and that it would split apart. Also that creeking noise is apparently common to these Neoplans. It was a surprisinly long ride, but of course it would be since this bus was stopping at every bus stop on 7th street. I got to L'Enfant Plaza, had to use the facilities, and for that reason missed the 13A.
Well since I couldn't get to my work(don't worry I am off this week), I decided to got back the way I came, so I got 5308 back to Silver Spring. There was a couple of differences in riding 5311 and 5308. The first was that 5308 had a quick double chime stop request bell and 5308 had a single one and also 5308 didn't creek as much as 5311 did. I got back to Silver Spring and saw some Ride On buses with the Conrad Johnson banner on them. They were 5723, 5720, 5717 and another unnamed one, which I forgot. 5720 had one on both sides.
I passed up a chance to ride 2042 on the F6, and got 4031 on the F4. The main reason is everyone was getting on the F6, and plus saw 5313 about to enter service and also with the fact I am tall, the good seats were taken. As I was leaving Silver Spring I saw ex-Northern 5214 about to go in service on the J2. I got back to New Carrolton and instead of catching 4087 on the F14(crowded as heck), got The Bus Thomas SLF 63029 home.
Other things I didn't mention was that New Carrolton saw 5175 had a notorious lean to one side. Didn't see any Neoplans on the X2, rarely saw an X2, and didn't see any 2460s.
That is it for now and by the way
DAMN ITS COLD!!!!!
Wes
These are two routes that should definitely be candidates for artics. I rode the F4 to Silver Spring and people just kept getting on. It wasn't till I got to Silver Spring that the bus anywhere close to being empty. On the way back, was ok, until we past New Hampshire Avenue and especially at PG Plaza got crowded again. The Z8 left Silver Spring crowded to the hilt. I know there are way more routes out there that need artics, WMATA needs to get out there just to see how crowded some of these routes are.
That F4 has been crowded since I can remember it in the 80's. Its amazing how busy it is considering the F6 runs with it now, too. I was sad when they eliminated the Silver Spring part of that trip when the Green Line opened up in 1993 to Greenbelt, but its nice to see it back out there again. Its good to see the planners wake up and realize Sunday service was needed on the F4. I think maybe at least Saturday service should be offered on the F6.
It was a long time coming for F4 Sunday service. The way the F6 is going Saturday service should be seriously considered. Also running every 30 minutes on Saturday F4 was long overdue. I think that both should also run every 30 minutes non-rush and 15 minutes each rush. The F4 runs every 15 minutes rush, the F6 runs every 30 minutes.
The F4/6 does seem to be a busy route. One thing I thought was strange was that back around '97-'98 twice I rode 30-foot Flxible METRO-B's on the F4. Both times it was during the PM rush hour.
Wayne
WHAT!!! Least the B30 buses were at least 40', but still wrong to put them there. I also remember seeing 30 footers on the A12 when it used to be busy. Unfortunately the A12 isn't as busy as it used to be(mainly because Landover Mall closed). It is about to gain the ridership it had, but probably not close at where it used to be. The F14 lost its rider ship because of the closing of Landover Mall also, but also because the Washington Heights apartment complex, was closed and remodeled into high end condos.
Wow, I never saw 30 footers on the F lines either! They really do pack in the riders. Back in the 80's, I used to see RTS's on both the F4 and F6 from time to time as well. It would probably do well if it ran past midnight, too.
Its sad to see Landover Mall closed. I remember taking the A12 there a couple of times. When I was little, I used to go to this neat little toy store and bought a stuffed car there!! That thing is probably in storage someplace, if it even exists. My mom was telling me about having to go to the doctor out near PG Plaza and since I haven't lived in PG County in over 6 years, brought back lots and lots of memories of growing up around there. They went to my favorite place, Ledo's on University Blvd. That original place is a lot better than the franchises in the area, even though they are good too. Three Brothers at Beltway Plaza was good, too. That was the first place I ever had a job, busing tables, in 1988. I used to get 8612 on the C2 everyday going to that job. The driver got to know me and he was always really friendly to me.
Wow - I guess that was pretty unusual. When it first pulled up (I'm pretty sure it was 5169) I thought it was unusual too, but I had lived here in the DC area for just over a year and I still had very, very limited knowledge about WMATA.
I've been to the Ledo's on University Blvd and tehy do have pretty good pizza. ...and that's coming from a New Yorker who LOVES pizza. One thing I tell folks is that when I go home to NYC one of the first things I do is go to my favorite pizzeria of many years at 206th/Bainbridge and it's also the last thing I do on my way back to Maryland.
Wayne
Once in a great while, you'll see a stray 30 footer show up on the oddest route. About a year ago I saw one on the 25B during rush hour and it was packed. Oh yeah, this was bizarre too, I was on a 30 footer once on the 38B during the AM rush hour about two years ago. I know I was sleepy then and maybe wasn't the sharpest tack at that time, but I was in stunned amazement riding that thing to this hotel I had to go to for a seminar.
Yeah, DC can't hold a candle to anybody, really, for pizza! When I was a kid, the line at Ledo's would extend all the way to the grocery store that was in the same shopping center. You definitely have to take advantage of the good pizzas when you go back! Amtrak has this internet deal for by one get one free tickets, so for my b-day on Saturday, my fiancee is taking me up to NYC. I'm hoping to get some good food while I'm there! I'll see if I can drag her on a few buses too. Since we're only up for the day, she told me she doesn't want to spend the whole day on buses. : (
LOL... Please excuse me for getting a little laugh, but your last line about your fiancee not wanting to spend the whole day on buses was a bit humorous. I have to say with all of the rides you've taken her on recently - she's a great sport.
In reference to the 38B... around the same time in '97 I used to often drive to Georgetown when I felt homesick because the neverending lively-ness reminded me of Manhattan. Well one Saturday I was walk aong M Street and I saw one of the 35-foot METRO-B's on the 38B. Was this normal???
Wayne
Haha, yeah, she's definitely a good sport about all of this! She did look at me like I was crazy when I was beaming about riding on the Neoplan, but I've taken her through some pretty rough days. I warned her over and over about the crazy trip I took back in September, but she didn't want me to be lonely. I think I owe her a couple!
You definitely weren't seeing things when you saw the 35' Metro B on there. The 38B used to have those on quite a bit. It wasn't really until the NextTrip Orion VI's were put on the line that you'd see mostly Arlington division buses on there most of the time. I remember vividly riding Orion V 9610 right after it was rehabbed as well as 35 footers here and there.
1C Ballston might know better than me, but I don't think it was uncommon to see a 35' on the 38B. Back then this bus used to run from Arlington(which is practically down the street where it begins). Why they picked this route for the Nextbus project is beyond me, but now this route runs from Four Mile Run.
Exactly, WES! I think the NextBus was picked because it was constantly getting delayed on the DC portion of the route. I think since its a relatively short route, it was the easiest to make a guinea pig.
that would definitely make sense.
Got picked because of the heavy traffic that it runs through, they wanted people to think the bus has some sort of reliability (yeah right).
LOL, yeah, I guess it helped that the chairman of the Metro board also was the County Exec. from Arlington, so he wanted to make sure the yuppies could reliably make it into Georgetown and Clarendon!
I remember the RTSs on the Fs. They used to use Montgomery buses, before Landover opened and I got a chance to ride one that being 9066 on the F4, before they changed to Landover. Those buses had some speed too. It was odd to see Montgomery buses on that route Mon-Fri and Bladnesburg buses running Saturday. I now know the reason why this happened. Also the F2,8 use to run from Bladensburg, but what boggles my mind is why the Rs (except R12) and the 81, 82,83 and 86 still run from Bladensburg. The 87 doesn't run anywhere near to Landover but it uses Landover buses.
Yeah, as late as 1989, I was on an RTS on the F6 when I was at Northwestern meeting my cousing up at Univ. of MD. I remember passing up a Flxible of all things to ride the RTS on there!
The F2 AND F8 ran from Bladensburg? Wow, that was sure taking those buses out of the range. I guess the R lines that run from Fort Totten benefit from Bladensburg being close to Fort Totten, but the K6 which runs almost parallel to them comes out of Montgomery. It must have something to do with the way they interline with each other. Probably the same thing with the 80's. I think on weekends the 83 and 86 interchange with each other. I remember seeing one bus on the 83, then later saw it on the 86.
Yep, before Landover opened, they ran from Bladensburg. The 87 might have also, I can't remember. Some of the old Prince George's routes, might have had help from Bladensburg also, of course can't really remember. I do remember Montgomery's routes on the weekends using Western buses, and of course now Royal weekend routes using Four Mile Run buses.
I definitely remember Montgomery buses using Northern buses on weekends, too. The C2 used to have 8900's on them all the time. I used to like taking the J2 on Saturdays to ride the 9250's that would show up on there.
You know somethng???... between you guys I may be an expert on DC area operations soon:-). I one point I though WMATA routes were long. I was comparing them to NYCTA (that I was used to) which are actually somewhat short and much, much slower paced than WMATA routes. I now think WMATA routes are pretty normal. However, they do get pretty far from their depots which can make for lots of deadheading miles. I especially though of this on Saturday as I was driving south on Branch Ave/MD route 5 in Clinton and saw an Orion VI heading N/B.
Wayne
I've learned so much from this board, Wayne, its so much fun. I can't remember how I stumbled on it, but I'm so happy I did. I've made some great friends on here, that's for sure!
I've definitely learned a lot about my own system as well. WMATA does have some interesting routes, that's for sure. A lot of routes have become shorter over the years because of metrorail, but you do see some wandering around far from home like the C18 you spotted this weekend. That's another route for me to conquer one of these days. The 12 line and 20 line that run to Chantily and Centreville are long since their home base is Arlington and there's nothing else West to house the buses.
NYCT routes definitely do seem to be shorter, but are the running times long because of congestion, particularly in Manhattan?
You got it, especially in Manhattan. Here's an example. One night I rode the F6 from West Hyattsville station to Silver Spring and the ride took like 13 minutes. Some NYCTA routes are shorter than that and will take 30 minutes to make the trip. The frustrating thing about many NYCTA buses is that they rarely exceed 30 MPH and when they do believe me when I say it's very brief. Now.. buses on Staten Island (and many in Queens) do actually move along at decent speeds. So of course when I branched out into NJTransit and other agencies I thought they were awesome and they NYCTA seemed to barely be moving. As far as bus riding in the DC area... I can't say enough good things. It's just a pure delight and never (or at least rarely) disappointing.
I stumbled in SubTalk back in '96 and I was so happy that I found it.... I immediately joined in which is probably why my handle is my name. At that time there was no BusTalk and some of us simply had bus related threads amongst the rail threads at SubTalk. So... I was thrilled when BusTalk was launched. It's never been as busy as SubTalk, but I think we do well. I don't get to SubTalk nearly as much because I really think it's changed. Isn't it interesting how WMATA (and other DC area transit) has become quite prominent here these days???:-). It'll be fun to meet you guys one day.
Wayne
Yeah, the suburbs can be so desolate at night, that the buses and cars, can just fly. I like looking at the schedules and seeing the different running times for during the heaviest peak time to the late hours and there is quite a difference. I've taken some crosstown lines in Manhattan and I never thought I'd get there. I should have walked, but being the bus junkie that I am, I wanted to maximize my fun pass and watched people walk pass us and never catch up to them! The M15 is probably my favorite line since its an interesting ride down Second Ave., then the M6 would have to follow. I took the Bee Line BxM4C once from White Plains and I liked that ride. We're pretty lucky down here to have the systems that we do. WMATA has gotten better over the years, especially serving rail stations late at night. There is a lot of work to be done with that, but overall, they're doing well. I'm glad you've taken a liking to the DC area agencies!
This is a great site. The subtalk side does seem to get out of control. I'll write a response or a message and a half hour later, it seems to be off the screen since so many others have posted things. Plus, I like the fact that no arguments really break out here. I never knew there was so much passion in transit!
It will definitely be great to meet you, Wes and anyone else who we happen to come along any of the DC rail or bus fan trips.
In choosing to ride the BxM4C... you picked a good one. In Manhattan sometimes you can get a decent ride, but more often than not those lights, traffic and stops every two blocks will make for a very boring ride. Staten Island offers some really good suburban-like rides. I do think the M6 is not bad especially N/B because it terminates at 59th Street and many folks are travelling further uptown.
I'm proud of being a New Yorker and the service that NYCTA offers, but I just wish the pace was a bit faster. I agree that WMATA does have more work to do, but they always seem to be striving to move ahead. I think it's fair to say that WMATA is at a disadvantage because to me because many folks in the DC tend to favor their cars - and in NYC most folks do even own cars. It's double-edged sword because we want to frequent serive and serive during off-peak hours, but I'll be the first to admit that if I'm going somewhere and say I'm planning to return home after 8 PM... I'm definitely taking my car. I think WMATA is doing a great job of reaching out to the DC area.
Wayne
The BxM4C was really nice. It was my first time on an OTR coach used for transit purposes. It was pretty cool seeing a stop request light show up on that sort of bus. The M6 certainly seems like more of a tourist bus because it only runs from Central Park to South Ferry. The first time I was in NYC after a long time away was in 1998 and I specifically chose the M6 because I knew that going N/B the other ones would be more crowded than the one just beginning at Central Park. Sure enough, I was the only one on it going S/B for several blocks, then going back to the hotel, it wasn't very crowded at all. Now, I just take whatever bus comes along since I know the system a lot better.
It sure does help to have a car. Here in VA., the buses run so infrequently on non rush hours or weekends, that unless you aren't really in a hurry, it doesn't do a lot of good. On Saturdays, though, I'll take the bus to Fair Oaks or Landmark just because its relaxing to let someone else drive for me for a change and not have to deal with parking. When I lived in PG County, the C2 and C4 used to stop so early that you had to really watch the time. WHen I was a kid and we had no car, we usually had to take a cab home, or make sure we were done by 7PM or else we were stuck. Now, the buses run really late. I remember my dad having to walk to Langley Park every morning because the first C2 back in the 80's didn't start from Beltway Plaza and serve our area until it was too late for him to get to work. Those were definitely the good old days!
WMATA sure has come a long way, though.
I took a look at the WMATA website and was impressed with the length of the routes. They have a lot of twists and turns as well. Too bad the RTS and the GM/Flx New Looks are gone. It would have been nice to ride them on those routes.
The WMATA fleet is pretty plain jane now. A few pre DD50 Flxs and some New Flyer CNG's. The rest don't seem that interesting. But that's just my opinion.
I wouldn't call WMATA's fleet quite plain jane, but they're close. I hope we're done with Orions. One reason Orions So now you have the Orion II, V, VI, Flxibe METRO-B, D & E, New Flyer C40LF, NABI 436 and Neoplan AN-460. Not ultra diverse, but it's OK. Ideally if WMATA could get the 40-foot Neoplan AN-440 or NABI 416.. that would be cool.
Wayne
Well, it's not as bad as we have it down here in Houston. In the past six years Metro has retired about 1000+ buses. That basically means that more that 75% of the 1997 fleet is gone.
Basically, Houston is nothing but New Flyers, Neoplans, and the scattered Ikarus. And of the nearly 1500 buses we have, the 40xx-41xx New Flyers are the only buses I'd go out of my way to ride. A ride on a rare 24xx or 25xx Ikarus is nice as well, but it'll never be like the old days.
Especially NABI 416 with M11 engines, those are some fast vehicles. I have ridden them on BaltMTA and they haul as quickly as the Orion 6s, NFI C40LFS AND the new Neoplan AN 460s.
That bus might have just run a C18 route, and it was heading back to Landover.
Since WMATA is basically rail feeder service, their routes don't last that long. I think one of the longest routes might be the 30s, the 1C and 2B that run from Ballston to Fair Oaks Mall and maybe even the Q2. And also the 29K that runs from Old Town Alexandria all the way out to George Mason University in western Fairfax County.
I didn't see the destination sign as it was moving fast N/B and I was blazing along S/B. On my way back I did see an Orion V and was indeed the C18, but I couldn't get the bus number.
Wayne
I forgot to mention the nice amount of legroom on the Neoplans! Glad you got a chance to experience the new bus. What is it with that dumb 13A anyway? LOL, I just missed it by a few minutes the other day too. Of course, I didn't know what time it was due and was taking a chance going for it, but the fact that I was at the Federal Triangle terminal at 12:42 and the bus was due at 12:40 didn't bode well for me. I gave it 10 minutes, but I knew there was no way that bus would run late as I never really see anyone on it. Oh well!
Since I'm off President's Day weekend, I think I'll take another bus tour then. Maybe just buy the $2.50 all day pass and ride to my heart's content, or until I get hungry!
I can't wait for the busfan trip in July. During the week would be great so we can take some routes that only run during peak times, like the B11, J4, if we end up that way.
Honestly, that should only be a rush hour bus, and be replaced by extended 54, S2or4 or 70. I have ridden it a couple of times and there were really noone on it.
I always get a $2.50 bus pass, my trips basically lasts all day, with tons o' buses. It's so fun to ride buses all day. They could make the B30 a little more fun, add some movies(no Ishtar LOL!!). I fall asleep alot when I rode this bus route.
I agree. I can't believe that its a 7 day a week bus with service past midnight. Seems like a big waste. I wonder how many people use the 13G that serves National Airport during non rail weekend hours?
Yeah, the B30 is a nice comfy ride. They could show "Speed" I suppose!! LOL
Probably FAR, FAR less people than who use the B30, plus the subway runs there, why have a bus route that does the same.
Exactly! It would probably due ok as a peak hour route. Use the spare bus and drivers and put it towards something else that could use the extra service. Unless the politicos in DC wanted something that connected Capitol Hill to the Pentagon. That's the strangest route I've evern seen!
The good thing about having the busfan trip so far away, is that reroutes and changes could be made just in case a new bus comes out(with WMATA that won't happen till 2004), and any new routes that may come about (again with WMATA that maybe doubtful).
That's very true. Usually, there is some sort of schedule adjustment around the end of June. I agree, we probably wont be seeing anymore new buses for awhile. But, at least we'll have the Neoplans and New Flyers to put into the routine! I think you'll get a decent crowd on this trip.
Wes,
Glad you got to ride those brand spankin' new AN-460's. You're right... They certainly do haul *ss.
Wayne
Is WMATA trying to buy buses or race cars? LOL!!!
On 5311 I rode in the front part and on 5308 ran in the back and saw the stop announcement sign over the door, although see didn't have it working.
Those DD60s will come in handy hauling the large loads on the 70. If they run on the X2, those things will roll down Benning Road and on the Redskin shuttle, those things will really fly down Landover Road and Sheriff Road. Just think if garages like Four Mile Run or Landover got those things with the highway routes and low volume roadways those garages serve, WHOA!!, those drivers would have too much fun rolling down those roads.
Yes, you're right. That's one reason I was hoping some of them would land at Montgomery. Can you imagine the Neoplans on the J2 taking those hills and curves of E-W Hwy between Silver Spring and Bethesda? Between the Neoplans, Orion VI and the C40LF... it looks as if WMATA indeed want to give the cars some competition:-).
Wayne
Throw in the 2001-02 Ride On Orion Vs and some area transit companies are getting some really supercharged buses.
I would like to see those puppies on the J2 taking those hills and on either a Four Mile Run run route that runs up 395 or on a Landover route going down either route 50, (most likely the C28 another route that could use an artic, by the way), or the 87 (another route that could maybe use an artic. Now that would be rapid transit.
The Q2 on Veirs Mill Road would be fun, especially after it passes Randolph Road and goes down that huge hill before Bauer Drive. Those curves on E-W Hwy, would be awesome too. The J4 I took one time just hauled around those curves. We had Metro D 9714 and I think the driver was enjoying it. At Connecticut Ave., the driver got up and stretched outside since its such a long light. Almost like a victory stretch! He took Piney Branch and University Blvd. pretty good too.
Oooh, a fast bus on 395 would be great. It looks like most of the buses on there are dogs that can barely make it up those hills!
Standing on the J3 on the curve by Brookeville and EW is a challenge, as is driving the minivan around that curve without the sensation of feeling the car is going to tip over!
1C/Ballston mentioned a July busfan trip in a previous thread. was this ever mentioned/posted officially as a thread, because I do not remember anybody posting this. I only remember rumors about one. If there is one, when and where? Thanks for reading.
I had the original post. I haven't set the date yet, I had wanted to ride a particular route, but nothing as of yet has been written in stone. I wanted to do the trip in mid to late July just to give potential participants plenty of time plan. More details to come.
While watching the Tampa Bay defense beat the living crap out of the Oakland Raiders, I spotted one advertisement that might catch a busfan's eye. It was a Levi's commercial, where a heard of buffalos were running through the city smashing stuff. I couple was walking through the streets, there was a passing glimpse of a GM new look, don't know where from, but there it was. Has anyone else seen any other superbowl commercial with buses in it?
That is my bus 3907.(TDH 5304-222, ex DCTransit #6342) The commercial was filmed at 7th and Figueroa in downtown LA about 2 months ago.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Tonight I was on a 107x bus heading to South Orange the final stop. When we hit Rt. 280 we ran into a pretty big traffic jam. 1010 wins said that there was an accident. The driver advised the passengers that he was going to take a different route home. When the driver advised the Control Center he was going to do this they advised him not to.
Finally after 45 min of moving about a mile. The driver decided to get off of rt 280 take a shortcut through Newark and get us home. He got us to the first stop in about 15 min.
What I would like to know from the NJT Bus Operators here are the policies allowing drivers to decide that they can get the bus to its final destination quicker than the normal route.
Who decides the Alt route? I keep hearing about this Control Center but it always seems that they are 20 min behind the problem.
Thanks
JB
Well for me, I will try to wait it out as best as I can, unless it is really bad. Then I will try something new. esp if I know the area. If not then we may have to wait.
Well as for the control center, they like to know everything, we are supposed to call them in case we are stuck in jams in order to advise the following buses to take a different route. Sometimes we call it in sometimes we don't due to response like the driver got today. What I do is take the shortcut then call the control center. I dunno like I said this is my perspective as a NJT Bus Operator. Other drivers may have different views. Please share with us.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
The advantages of working for a private contract.
No Real Control Center, Dispatch Sucks!
Prime Example.....
Friday I was doing my 6:10pm 21 From the Port to New Milford, NJ, For a change traffic was smooth and creamy just like the Jell-O Pudding! I should've known it was too good to be true. After doing the first portion of local stops in Palisades Park and Leonia, I hopped on NJ Route 4 to a Parking Lot. A passenger who was on the bus immediately got on the phone to call her husband, but her husband had passed on to her that there was a Accident in Paramus on Route 4, I was in Englewood on Route, 3 towns back! The Dispatcher on duty that night, I know is taking pictures without Film (probably a Rockland Phsyc Center reject) for sure would've told me to wait it out! Abso-fucking-lutely NOT! I did my little short and got my passengers home with just a 5 minute drop back in normal time. Passengers even clapped! If I'd sat in that traffic, I would've been the 9:20pm 84 instead of the 7:20pm 84!
Point being, Control Centers and Some Dispatcher don't know what the hell they are doing and some do! Even though this is probably the wrong advise, but follow your first instinct, if you know that you can detour without incident, DO IT! If you are not comfortable in your area, stay put!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Those Knuckleheads are in Maplewood telling people all over northern NJ and NYC how to get around a traffic jam. Half the info they give you doesn't make any sense. I rather not talk to them but if you go off route w\out them knowledge and have an accident then its your ass.
Troy
YOU GOT THAT TROY! That is really the only reason, we have to call them, cause one scrtach and it is your ass! Big TIME!
Tony M.
The most annoying thing about contacting Dispatch is that nine times out of ten if you tell them about adverse traffic conditions thy don't broadcast it. Sometime when you're driveing you have to worry about the consequences later ( Half our drivers don't even use 3 when it's messed up.) By the way what's the best way to get to the Port Authority when everything is sent downtown out of the tunnel.
I was just watching CBS news where Ernnie Anastos reported that a Q-88 was involved in a fatal accident. Could this be an error? Isn't this bus from Jamaica? If so, it's probably a Q-17.
Anyone have any details?
4572 is being hooked up to the tow truck as I write this on 188 Street right before Hillside Avenue. The rear valence looks to have been torn off, so my guess is that there was a bit of an impact that happened.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
That bus was used for training purposes. Not anymore-that bus is a goner. I remember 4591 was in a very minor accident and it was scrapped for the sole purpose that it was involved in an accident.
#4589 Q17
Does anybody have a list or any info on the cuts and which bus routes will be cut? It's not on the MTA website.
Ray
The article I believed stretched the truth a little bit. The article stated that the MTA is preparing new schedules for buses as it does every six months and may decrease service on some lines and increase service on other lines. Gene "I need a headline" strpahngers idiot used this as an opurtunity to run off his mouth.
Whether there will be cuts in overall service remains to be seen
[The article stated that the MTA is preparing new schedules for buses as it does every six months...]
While it's not likely that any given route would need to be adjusted more than once or twice in a given year, B/Os pick four times a year.
- - - - -
[...and may decrease service on some lines and increase service on other lines.]
That's the routine process, adjusting service levels and running times based on actual ridership and road conditions.
On the other hand, Straphangers' policy is to (1) assume uniform growth across the entire system and over the entire day, and (2) fault NYCT for not increasing ALL service by the uniform growth factor. For example, if SYSTEM-WIDE ridership rose by 5% in a given year, then there are 5% more riders on EVERY bus (whether it's the weekday M15 or the Saturday Q79), and therefore NYCT should increase ALL service by exactly 5%. Clearly, such an assumption is at best erroneous and at worst a flat-out lie.
I'm sure Fresh Pond will be making some cuts on their routes, like the Metro Av. branch of the B38. None of FP's routes will get increased service, only decreases.
The list will be published in the TA Committee Agenda for January.
However the list will only give the following information
Line
Old headways
New headways
It will not publish the exact number of runs that are to be changed.
According to the law if changes are under 10% then no public hearing is required
Thank You
"According to the law if changes are under 10% then no public hearing is required"
25%, not 10%...and that applies to increases as well as decreases!
David
David,
I believe the law requires 10% not 25%
I would double check with legal
Thank You
[I believe the law requires 10% not 25%]
As I recall from my days of being involved in the public hearing process, it was not so much a law as a policy adopted by the MTA Board. Anyway, a public hearing is required for any of the following permanent changes:
1. Increase of 25% (or more) in total number of trips;
2. Decrease of 25% (or more) in total number of trips;
3. Increase of 25% (or more) in the length of a route;
4. Decrease of 25% (or more) in the length of a route;
5. Increase of 60 minutes (or more) in a route's hours of service;
6. Decrease of 60 minutes (or more) in a route's hours of service;
7. Creation of a new route (by definition, a combination of #1, #3, and #5);
8. Discontinuation of a route (by definition, a combination of #2, #4, and #6).
- - - - -
Note on #3 and #4: In the case of a detour due to construction or emergency, the change is not permanent and thus does not trigger a hearing.
I recall a law was passed about 25 years ago because the TA cut a lot of runs without holding a public hearing.
The law was passed due to the outcry at the time.
Thank You
Tommorow I will finally have my 2nd oppertunity to take a ride with you on your trip on the 20.I'll be boarding your bus from Nanuet Mall tommorow.You will know it's me when you see someone boarding your bus wearing a blue jacket with the Rangers logo covering the entire front of the jacket and wearing an MTA hat.Haha,can't go anywhere without that hat.See you tommorow!
Ok Sir!
I arrive at Nanuet Mall PROMPTLY @ 4:20pm!
You'll know its my bus when you see......
20 41st St Term
Turnpike Express
Rockland Coaches
in the destination sign and High Beams on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Yes I know.One question though.Why does every trip say "Turnpike Express" when it only goes on the highway for a short distance up to the Lincoln Tunnel? That isn't much of an express trip if you ask me.
Well we have I-95 Express and Turnpike Express signs! It's a way of getting people to know that one is not serving Palisades Park and Leonia and that one is. It's also a way of telling the people in Tenafly & Englewood that we are quicker and cheaper than the 166!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
LOL.....................You got that right! you guys are cheaper than us.
Tony M.
Funny, but don't we drive the same equipment???????? Just different paint! :)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Exactly, dude, just wish them damn buses were not regulated! I would like to go past 70 sometimes, esp on the turnpike. I mean, I do that turpike exp fast through Leonia, I don't play. Even the I-95 from Bergnfield, I do those quick.
Tony
Yeah, same for me, though we do have several D4000s that will rock at 75MPH and even one that does the full 80 but for the most part all of our D4000s do 70 except for 8459 which does 62, ILK!!
Yeah I know what you mean by Rock! My Wednesday 6:40pm 14E is scheduled to arrive in Montvale at 7:57, I'm up there by 7:30! I come through Palisades Park, Leonia and Englewood like a bat out of hell!
Trevor
Wheeeeee Go Go Trevor!
What about your 20 trip tommorow? You must run into traffic everytime you get to the Lincoln Tunnel approach right? I remember one time I took the 168 from Paramus Pk Mall and when we got close to the tunnel,and it was well past the rush hour already,it took like an extra half hour till we finally got through.That night was mega outrageous.
You'll see how I do tomorrow! I'm due in the port at 6:03pm, I'm usually in there at the latest 6:20pm.
If I didn't do the stuff I do to get in, I wouldn't be in until 7pm which from what my passengers tell me, the guy that cover's the run Monday-Tuesday and Thursday-Friday don't show up until 6:55pm and pull out at 7pm.
Last Wednesday I was in there at 6:20pm, I go to load up at 6:35pm and the 6:20pm 14E was there still loading, apparently he got in at 6:30 from what I was told by the station starter, now what is so freaky is that he's the 3:10pm 20 from W Nyack and I'm the 4:10pm 20 from W Nyack. So Homeboy sat right in the traffic while I did what was necesarry to get my bus in at a reasonable time. Arriving in NYC in next to impossible during rush hour unless its a special holiday or something. But I get there as quickly as I can do it.
Regards,
Trevor
I'm leaving soon to head down to the PA to catch the 11A to go to Nanuet.I'm gonna take the 2:15 bus and arrive at the mall at 3:35.It isnt even gonna take me 45mins to walk the whole mall.Its so small the first time I was there it only took me a half hour.I'll be at the bus stop 5mins before you show up.see ya in a couple of hours.
Go Devils!!!
Devils suck! Lets go Rangers!!!
Go Islanders!
Oh god!Not another Islander fan.I always have to be arguring with my brother about this.So I'll say the same thing I tell him,ISLANDERS SUCK!!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but who beat who a few days ago 5-0? The Rangers beat the Islanders that night! -starts dancing around while singing- the Islanders suck!
Devils s**k! Lets go Rangers!!!
Have you checked the standings lately? The last time I checked, the Rangers were in the basement, while the Devils were atop the division.
And, in the interest of fairness ... Go Flyers! =)
Yeah so what? It's just a minor set back don't worry.By season's end,the Rangers will on top and win the cup.buwhahahahaha!!!!
Can anybody post what the cost is per hour to operate the following buses
Standard 40 ft diseal
Artuclated Bus
MCI 45 Foot Crusier
CNG 40 ft bus
HYBRID 40 ft bus
Thank You
Well Washington and soon Baltimore will have Neoplans back in service again. They are (hopefully) better built than the rolling future junk heaps WMATA had in the 80's to mid 90's. WMATA's AN460s are more modern designed than their fore fathers, the 9500s, and have more powerful engines (DD60 vs 6V92 on the 9500s). They also have way more technological advances than the 9500s did. Baltimore's will be low floor and will be more and could be way more than the 10 they had in the 80's and 90's. Hopefully WMATA will go to Neoplan for 1)More artics and 2) more HIGH FLOOR 40's. New Flyer should get the next CNG contract, from my opinion, cause the ones they have now really fly. NO MORE Orions I am too Orioned out.
I THINK I SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS WHEN THE FIRST ONES HIT SERVICE A WEEK AGO.
The Neoplans do have a unique and appealing rear design.
Also, Ive heard from other busfans who don't post here that CNG buses are notoriously slow accelerating buses. How is that so, because W.E.S. is right about the accel. on the WMATA C40LF's.
New Flyer Low floors are all fast with any engine. I mean, they have the same DDC 50 engines as the SEPTA Neo artics and the SEPTA NABIs have, yet they FLY!. Don't cut in front of these buses, lol.
wow for that matter it not really just the engine it also the ddc settings if it set for slow it will pick up that way like the neoplans the NABI's seem to have a direct pick up the flyers when they are new seem to have a goven pck up i heard that ddc50 in flyer pick up to fast that probaly why they need to goven they pick up a bit dunno about the flyers.
Depends on the type of model sometimes. I have ridden on the Orion V CNGs with both a DD50 engine and a Cummins L10 and both don't have the same kind of acceleration that the New Flyers do.
Recording of engine on WMATA #2317, http://www.flatface.net/~tecsbrain/tsounds/WMATA-2317.mp3
AMEN! About time to see a sound of the engine i am now dling it :D
Junk heaps, LOL. I never had the pleasure of riding one of those things.
I can't wait for the Baltimore Neoplans to hit the road. I agree, too, no more Orions! After my ride on Saturday, the buses we have here in VA are boring! Its Orion city in Arlington.
I remember when they first came out, they had to immediately be grounded because of an axel problem, at least to my memory.
I did have the pleasure of riding one on the W4, can't remember how the ride was, did remember another one pulling up and a kid who just got off of it threw up. Little did I know it was a sign of things to come. I did wish I could of taken another trip on them before he rest of them were grounded in 1995.
I am looking forward to riding Baltimore's Neoplans also.
I never new WMATA ever had neoplans until I saw a picture of one in the Story of Metro book.
They were sort of the equivalent of the Grumman 870s before they had their frames repaired. WMATA wasn't the only ones to have crap like this. Most transit agencies had what has been termed "Neocrap". It is nice to know that Neoplan has now gained a good reputation, far from what they had in the 80's. I hope that WMATA buys more Neoplans and that the other local transit agencies do the same. I am really getting sick of the Orions being bought all of the time. It is beginning to look like Orion City here.
At around the same time that WMATA had the 9500-series Neos, Baltimore had 10 Neoplans of their own. The Baltimore Neos were mainly used to test transmissions for future bus orders; 3701-3705 had an Allison transmission, while 3706-3710 had a Voith. Check out Adam Paul's Baltimore Transit Archives page on the 3700s for more details...
Hmm remain me of septa neoplan #3414
I do remember those. I actually saw one in eastern Baltimore around 2000. I for some reason thought that they were ex-WMATA units, but when I visited Adam Paul's website, I was soon edumacated :~). I also passed by the Eastern garage about 5 times around that time. I was driving around Baltimore at that time, just looking at that bus in service. Before the B30 I was going to drive up to Baltimore or use MARC and ride the Baltimore MTA bus system. I wish that 1)The B30 came sooner 2)Even for with the B30 I didn't know that I could get to Baltimore via connecting transit systems, more like Corridor Transit and 3)Should have thought driving up to Baltimore a long time ago, but to that one I was using my mother's car at the time and didn't want to run it into the ground. Unfortunately I missed out riding their new looks, RTSs, Grumman 870s as well as the Flxibles 8300s to possibly the 8500s and 8700 series with Cummins engines. Oh well. Que serra, serra.
I remember riding them (the 9500's) every time I got the chance because they reminded me of the early Neoplans back in Philly. After I moved back to Philly, I was in Neoplan Heaven! When I visited DC after a 5 yuear hiatus, I was shocked at how shabby WMATA kept them, in contrast to how beautiful SEPTA kept their Neoplans of the same vintage. Even at the end of their days, I always felt that WMATA gave these buses the shaft, in contrast of how roadworthy the old SEPTA Neos were at the end.
As bad as they were, they did have the chance to have them repair. I might be wrong, but didn't Los Angelos have the same problem WMATA's had, but also didn't LA have theirs repaired and have been running ever since?
I think in the 80s, WMATAs repair and maintenance wasn't up to par, far below what it is now, here I might be wrong also. In the late 80s and then on WMATA picked it up in terms of repair and maintenance.
I see less buses broken down now as I saw back in the 80s, although I have seen alot of buses broken down in the past couple of months.
I am wondering if anyone has sent route suggestions to of their transit authorities and if theirs were accepted. I did last year and got a WMATA post card of the Silver Spring Metro. Old pic though, it had GM and Flxible New Looks in it. Nice pic though.
I've never sent suggestions for route changes or anything, but I did send them a proposal that they do something with the B30 and allow people who may be going to Baltimore for the day for an Orioles game, for example, to let them get some kind of round trip discount. I know that wouldn't work, but I thought it would be a way to get people to take transit since they could switch to the light rail at BWI. MTA does have buses to take you there, but they cost $9 round trip and only run up to a half hour after the game. However, the light rail and B30 run a lot later. I just got an email back saying "Thank you, blah blah blah."
Did your route suggestion get implemented? I wonder if they get a lot of suggestions.
They never sent me back any othe correspondence on if they are. With their budget problems, they won't do it now. I am also working on a another list, one which includes extending the 54, S2, and 70s into Virginia and creating a return of the X4 which would run past Lafayette Square and terminating at Rosslyn. I also have a bus route that would run up the part of Sheriff Road that the F14 doesn't run on anymore, including in front of my house. I am sick and tired of seeing TheBus's van buses and Champions running up and down the street. Thank god that there is a Thomas SLF running up and down the street everyday, and might get a treat and see a Gillig Phantom or Thomas High Floor run on the 22. I should make a suggestion to the Bus to have the 22 extended to New Carrolton, instead of terminating it at what was left of Landover Mall.
Are the Dutchess Loop drivers still on strike?
I'm posting it here. I have a 1/64 scale NOVABUS in DART(Dallas Area Rapid Transit)design for sale. It is the same model that was done in New york colors with the friction wheels in the back. In mint condition. Best offer at vautrin179@aol.com gets it.
B1-#9332-NOVABUS
F Shuttle-#9316-NOVABUS
Hi any here has any specs on those beautys i just saw a photo of them of the back view and i was attactive to it i love those things . I saw the front it look alright but the back is so unique looking i never saw the back of baitmore MTA ones yet i wondar if it loooks like the same.
Patkylekenny
www.geocities.com/van2001ko
Septa Bus spec.
Ok while i know their have CAT engine what kind of engine. And ZF tranny what kind of tranny? And do any here has photo of them.
Caterpillar C9 - 9L, 330hp, competes directly with the 8.9L Cummins ISL
according to ny 1 the mta is considering bus cuts at a time when ridership is at its highest point in 3 decades
[according to ny 1 the mta is considering bus cuts at a time when ridership is at its highest point in 3 decades]
Read the related threads for commentary on this topic. While TOTAL ridership has grown over the last few years, that growth is not - repeat: not, not, NOT - uniform across all routes, times of day, or days of week. (Sorry, Straphangers!)
Keep in mind that a system-wide AVERAGE level of growth is just that - an AVERAGE. Some routes have seen a larger increase than the average, some have grown less, and some have LOST riders. (Imagine that - riders actually exercising their Constitutional right to shift their travel patterns!) The routes proposed for cutting have lost riders. Period.
[Keep in mind that a system-wide AVERAGE level of growth is just that - an AVERAGE. Some routes have seen a larger increase than the average, some have grown less, and some have LOST riders. (Imagine that - riders actually exercising their Constitutional right to shift their travel patterns!) The routes proposed for cutting have lost riders. Period.]
If it is appropriate to cut service on routes that have lost riders, then it is equally as appropriate to add service to routes that have experienced increases in ridership. If the average ridership has grown, then there should be more increases in service than decreases in service. If the MTA is decreasing overall service, then it seems to me they are paying attention to lines losing ridership, but doing nothing to improve lines that have seen increases.
[If the MTA is decreasing overall service, then it seems to me they are paying attention to lines losing ridership, but doing nothing to improve lines that have seen increases.]
Unfortunately, yes. Since even the busiest routes still don't recover all of their operating costs, service increases are deferred until the budget cloud clears up at least a little. (BTW, Straphangers includes "failure to add service" in its definition of a service cut.)
Not surprised at that. Bus ridership has risen dramatically and yet they may have to cut service AND we're getting hit with a fare increase. I expect the average ridership routes to take the deepest cuts first.
I just noticed, that there's no M14C any more. Actually M14C was renamed M14D and old M14D removed. What prompted that decision?
Arti
The closing of 14th Street East of Avenue C. Originally they were running the M14C and D on the 14C route when they closed 14th Street beyong Avenue C. I guess the MTA just said screw it and kill one of the letters all together.
IIRC, Con Edison had the NYPD close off 14ht street at the point post 9/11 fears.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
and to add on to that, the M14C became the M14 and the avenue A stayed the M14A. For the summer pick (2002) everyone asked if the M14 was the avenue C or D? So they brought back the M14D which operates as the old M14C. Con Ed has gotten over big time on the closing of 14th street east of Avenue C. 9/11 was the perfect opportunity for them to get the street closed. The power plant is being expanded because of the future closing of the power plant at 39th street and 1st avenue. So from what I have been told from the bus operators at Hudson Pier they will not bring back the old M14D, but who knows. Only time will tell!
Peace!
DaShawn
I think East 14 St after Avenue C became one way and they realized that separate services on Av C & Av D could be combined into one branch.
Had a chance to get up to Ulmer Park today and copied down the runs for the lines that they serve-bear in mind that not all of the information is posted becasue i did not see all of it listed. This is accurate as of 1/26/03.
B1: Wkdy-49, SA-28. Su-??
B3: Wkdy-35. SA-31. Su-24.
B4: Wkdy-25. SA-21. Su-16.
B6: Wkdy-77a/71b. sa-61. Su-44.
B36: Wkdy-36a/30b. SA-21. Su-17.
B64: Wkdy-18. SA-15. Su-11.
B74: Wkdy-8. SA-4. Su-3.
F Shuttle: Wkdy-16. SA-11. Su-11.
X27/X37: Wkdy-29. SA-11. Su-9.
X28/X38: Wkdy-40. SA-15. Su-9.
X29: Wkdy-22.
There is also 3 extra pieces for the B68 Pm Run(x51,X52 and X53).
B3-#4497.
B4-#9078-NOVABUS.
forgot to mention. For the B6 and B36 during weekdays:
A-schools open.
B-schools closed.
sorry about that.
The following were the runs that each Ulmer Park line had in the February pick of 1973-30 years ago for the weekdays only. Sorry i do not recall all the weekend run
B-1(old route now part of current B-1)9 weekdays,6 Saturdays and Sunday(winter)
B-4 12 weekday
B-5(now part of B-82)36 weekday
B-6 55 weekday,34 Saturday,18 Sunday
B-8(now at Gleason)47 weekday
B-9(now at Gleason)31 weekday
B-21(discontinued)19 weekday
B-34(now part of current B-1)31 weekday
B-36 33 weekday
B-64 19 weekday
B-68(now at Gleason) 42 weekday
B-74-9 weekday
x-28 and x-29 had no runs all service was provided by extras
Also back then the B-1,B-21,B-36,B-64 and B-68 had both winter and summer tables and had more service on the summer tables
Hope you find this interesting
Thank You
Started from 33rd Street on PATH to Hoboken Terminal. Caught sight of mostly Flixible buses (one was QC from Greenville Garage, the other 2 had no labels)-did see Academy NOVABUS models.
Hoped on the Light Rail and caught sight of ex Queens Surface #283 and #255 near Exchange Place. They look in good condition. Any one who is a fan of Flixible Metro from NJ Transit should ride the Light Rail passed the Liberty Park-n-Ride Stop. There are about 10 parked to the right of the tracks. Not sure if there is a garage there. Got off at the last stop and caught the Broadway Bus. These NOVAS look fantastic, especially with the Window wrap. Did see a 30 foot Bus, but not sure if Broadway Bus has 30 foot models.
At the last stop i walked over the Bayonne Bridge into staten Island, catching the S44 to SI Mall and connecting to a S79(#8294, with missing rim around a wheel and a hole on the back side). Returned to Brooklyn on a typical B64 NOVABUS.
My question is this: What stop would i have to get off to see the garage for the Broadway bus lines from the Light Rail?
PAth-#140-??
NJ Light Rail-#2029A.
Broadway Bus-#1536-NOVABUS.
S44-#6325-Orion V.
S79-#8294-TMC RTS.
B64-#9336-NOVABUS.
Any one who is a fan of Flixible Metro from NJ Transit should ride the Light Rail passed the Liberty Park-n-Ride Stop. There are about 10 parked to the right of the tracks. Not sure if there is a garage there.
IIRC, I beleive that's the Caven Point Acceptance/Auction lot. Chances are that the Flxibles you saw there are about out of service and awaiting disposition.
[My question is this: What stop would i have to get off to see the garage for the Broadway bus lines from the Light Rail?]
I believe the Broadway Bus garage is on Kennedy Boulevard at the northern end of the bus route. Therefore, you would have to go from light rail to a northbound Broadway bus, taking it to the very last stop.
On the way (around Broadway and 53rd Street), you will pass the Bergen Avenue Bus Line garage.
Was hoping to see more Neoplan artics in service, hopefully on Bladensburg routes, but alas, didn't see one, except for one in the early morning. Bladensburg does have some changes. For one it seems like the X2 midday schedule has been increased, as I saw buses running frequently and it wasn't close to rush hour. Another observation was that 5240-42 are now officially at Bladensburg, saw all of them today. Back to the X2 in that it wasn't all NABI that I saw, I also saw a bunch of 8950s running there, including oddity 8953.
there were alot of NABIs not seen in service on the X2. I went by Landover to see if any Neoplans were still there and they are. Looks like the same amount that were there before that almost makes me wonder if they bought more. I don't think so, so I will await to see when the rest of them enter service. Also didn't see any 2460s either.
8953 sure seems to get around. First, it started it Northern, then was seen at Western, now Bladensburg? This old girl is making her rounds!
I also saw 5240's on the X2 last Saturday. They were running extremely frequently then, too. The 80 was surprisingly running a lot as well. I didn't think there was such a demand for that route. I can't imagine how many people actually ride it to the Kennedy Center. There used to be three or four routes that served Kennedy Center at one time. I think the L4 used to go there, as well as an "M" route.
I don't remember the seller, but on Ebay, there is a WMATA roll sign for bid. It had tons of interesting destinations. If I can find it, I'll post the item number. I think the starting bid is $50.00
I love roll signs. I can't tell you how many times I've stood in front of a bus to watch the driver change the sign. My prize possession is a Red Arrow Division (Philly) complete bus roll sign. It's so big; I have to roll it out on the bedroom floor. It has all the suburban destinations, plus many "69th St. Terminal" markings so the drivers didn’t have to wind the darn thing from end to end.
Chuck Greene
I loved roll signs as well. It was cool to watch how many destinations would be on there and how many places the buses never really terminated at. The Shuttle UM buses I drove had roll signs, but only about 15 or so sign readings, so defintitely not as interesting as transit buses. We did have destinations that the buses never went to like "White Oak" and "Bowie". I used to put the signs on those when going out of service and once in awhile someone would come up to me asking if I was really heading there.
I'll bet you had a lot of fun when you put up "Whie Oak", etc. Some people think any "ol" bus that comes their way is going to take them "home".
Chuck Greene
I know the 80 is popular past 13th street going towards Fort Totten. When I rode one about 3 weeks ago, it did get crowded. It does warrant that frequency. Also the G8 runs pretty frequently, but during rush hour only it seems.
Bladensburg now probably has about 20 artics now. I don't they had that much since with the MANNs running a couple of weeks ago. At least I don't think.
I'm planning to ride the QM24, but does a $4 fun pass work for it? I know it works for the Q53, but I never tried it on a QM route. If so, will I have to pay extra?
[I'm planning to ride the QM24, but does a $4 fun pass work for it? I know it works for the Q53, but I never tried it on a QM route. If so, will I have to pay extra?]
The $4 daily, $17 weekly, or $30 monthly WON'T work at all - they're valid only for $1.50 routes. For NYCT and NYCDOT express routes, you'll need either a "pay-per-ride" card, a 30-day Unlimited Express card ($120), or 12 quarters.
The Fareboxes takes Dollar Coins too! So all he needs is 3 $1 Coins to put into the Farebox.
For NYCT and NYCDOT express routes, you'll need either a "pay-per-ride" card, a 30-day Unlimited Express card ($120), or 12 quarters.
Where are the pay-per-ride cards sold for the DOT services?
JD
[Where are the pay-per-ride cards sold for the DOT services?]
You don't need a special pay-per-ride card. The normal pay-per-ride Metrocard that you would use on a MTA-NYCT bus would also work on any of the NYCDOT privates. The only thing to keep in mind - when the fare on local NYCDOT privates is $1.00, using a pay-per-ride Metrocard will cost you $1.50 for that trip. But normal Metrocard transfer privileges will apply.
There hasn't been a good quiz on Bustalk for awhile. So I made this one.
Here it is:
There are 12 local Triboro routes(Q18, Q19, Q19A, 19B, Q23, Q29, Q33, Q38, Q39, Q45, Q47, Q72). You must figure out a way to ride all 12 routes, but there are limitations.
Here's what you must do:
-You can choose any starting point you like on any of the 12 routes.
-You must use each Triboro route once, and ONLY once.
-All transfers must be close Triboro routes! For example, if you take the Q39, you're next transfer must be a connecting Triboro route(you can choose the Q19A because it meets at QP). You cannot use NYCT, GL, QS, or any other route to transfer that's not Triboro.
Basically the path must be 12 consective Triboro routes(each one being different).
Good Luck! You can use the Queens Bus Map if you like. :)
Do Q53 count in this?
No, you can't include the Q53 because its not a local route. You must use the 12 local Triboro routes which are Q18, Q19, Q19A, Q19B, Q23, Q29, Q33, Q38, Q39, Q45, Q47, and Q72.
Here we go:
Q53 from Rockaway-Queens Center Mall. Take Q29 to Roosevelt Ave and 83 St. Transfer to the Q33 to 35 Ave and 83 St. Take Q19B to 94 St and 31 Ave. Take Q72 to Astoria Blvd and 94 St. Take Q19 to Astoria Blvd and 102 St. Take Q23 to 108 St and 62 Dr. Take Q38 to Fresh Pond Rd and Eliot Ave. Take Q39 to Queens Plaza. Take Q19A to 82 ST and Astoria Blvd. Take Q47 to 74 St Terminal. Take Q45 to 50 Ave and 69 St. Take Q18 to Woodside. Then take the Q53 back to Rockaway.
Whew!
#3018 Q53
#734 Q29
#739 Q33
#2806 Q19B
#2144 Q72
#2828 Q19
#670 Q23
#657 Q38
#711 Q39
#2059 Q19A
#739 Q47
#2819 Q45
#2137 Q18
#3049 Q53
Read this post again...
...as it will explain the rule that you just broke in your last post...
Carlton
http://www.cleanairbus.tk
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
So does he have it right if he leaves out taking the Q53?
Actually he's right, but he really didn't need to add the Q53. All 12 routes were used consecutively.
Thank You. I used Q53 2 times only because of the case if you live in Rockaway and you would want to ride all of the Triboro Routes and go back. A round robin I guess you can say.
#3018 Q53
That's pretty good. I might think of really riding all 12 local Triboro routes the next time I decide the take a bus trip.
You didn't need the Q53, but I guess that's still good, as long if it wasn't in between riding any of the local routes.
What do I get for this exercise?
A hearty hand clasp?
Well we all heard about my failed attempt to ride the Neoplans on Sunday. I decided to brave the rain (which wasn't that bad) and rode them today instead.
Got on the 1 at Friendship Heights (Gillig 5394). Loud engine but otherwise it was OK. We were stopped by several school buses and the 11 that left Friendship 10 minutes later (Orion I 5516) was behind us from E/W and Washington all the way to Silver Spring. Got off at the stop on Colesville Road so I would be that much closer to the buses. First sighting was 4401 (SmartMover Orion V) signed Z2 NOT IN SERVICE. Needless to say, 4401 should not be showing up at Silver Spring. Also saw 8830 (M). I saw a silver bus on Second Avenue and went up to photograph it. 5516 was unloading a wheelchair and I saw a Silver bus pull out from behind it. Now there was no way the bus waiting to cross Colesville was here already. It was 5410, and I got a photograph of it, and I was right in my prediction. Both silver buses were there, so I ran down and got 5409 loading for a trip to Takoma.
While all this was going on, I saw a Neoplan and a NABI pull in. Ran over to the Neoplan, which was idling by the enterance to the Metro. It was 5316, and I got some pictures of it. The driver then showed up and pulled it up to the stop, so I got on. It was a 71 to Buzzards Point. Slow trip with lots of people. I was sitting in the joint so I missed some of the other bus numbers but saw a few other Neoplans and NABIs numbered between 5201 and 5209. The NABI, 5207 on the 70, caught up to us at Petworth and then we went back and forth with it the rest of the way down. That squeaking noise in the joint is very annoying after awhile. Like the C40s, the Neoplans announce the transfers before the name of the Metro station, but unlike the C40s, have a chime before the transfer announcement and again before the station or street name. No date or time displays like someone else had reported.
We detoured down 6th Street from about N Street to Mass Ave because of Convention Center construction. No stops along that stretch. Got off at Archives where I got a few WRP observations, photographed a northbound bus, then walked up to E Street. A few minutes later, another Neoplan pulled up with a NOT IN SERVICE sign. It was 5312, in service on the 70, and the sign was already not working. Rode that down to 9th and Maine where the driver kept the passengers waiting to get on off long enough so I could get empty interior shots. Also waited for me to get two pictures of the back of the bus before leaving. He didn't know Rode back with him to L'Enfant where I photographed the VRE Sounder Cars.
Got on the Metro to go home. When I got to the platform, a train of CAF Yellow Line cars was on the other side. Photographed that, then went to the overpass at the south end of the station. Did a photograph or two from up there as well as two movies, then went down to the northbound platform where someone (who doesn't post here) recognized me. We talked a bit, got on the Green Line (Breda 4017, last car) and I showed him the White Line sign (which I correctly hypothesized to be on the back of the Green Line sign that goes in the bulkhead, this was the first time I got to test the hypothesis). We split ways at Gallery, he stayed on the train, I went up to the Red Line where I went homeward (Breda 3200). One person came up and told me "Who are you? The engineer? Move on over?" I told him he could have the inside seat but I wasn't going anywhere, and he took it. Got off at Friendship and caught the 27 (Cutaway type thingy 5139) home. There were actually other passengers on the bus, but only one other is a legit 27 passenger since they were still on when I got off. The others got off on the portion shared with the 23 and T2.
Pictures to come to OTP soon!
Dangit I told you they are ElDorado National Aero Elites..."cutaway thingy", you sound like an amateur Oren!
One question before I get to see the Neos myself, are there three entry/exit doors or just two?
Just two.
I know what they are, most people here from what I have gathered don't.
That said, 2 doors and the narrow aisles I have already mentioned to you.
Today I saw the Q21 and for the 1st time ever,I saw #1167 running the Q21! Finnaly something diffent!
Not unusual-I saw 5525 on the Q21 1 time.
#5525 Q21
Saw a Orion recently running on the Q21 [55xx]; couldn't catch the last 2 digits.
Hah, I actually rode a 55xx on the Q21. I was waiting for the Q53 for 15 minutes around Rockaway Beach and all of a sudden I see a Green Orion, I though it was for the Q22, but it came closer and said Q21, so I decided to take it. It was pure luck.
The Q21 comes out of Green Bus Lines Roxbury Depot located at Beach 50th Street and Rockaway Beach Boulevard. The Depot operates the Q21,Q22A,Q22 and Q35. Mostly they have the left over RTS Buses from Green but occasionally they operate Orion V Buses.
Wow, only 15 minutes for the Q21 to come, man you got lucky there; if you waited fore the Q53 15 minutes and counting then you may have just missed it. BTW, what was the top speed the bus went via Cross Bay Blvd [if you remember]?
Only one word can describe it....way past cool! ok so that's 3 words,sue me.I was late to catch the 11A from the PA so I decided to get the 11C from the GWB instead.driver of that bus left late and arrived at Nanuet Mall 5mins late at 4:02 instead of 3:57.So I just spent a short time there,took a gander at the Suncoast store to see what they had,bought myself a pretzel from Auntie Annie's and then I stood waiting for Trevor and his bus to come.An 11A shows up first then the 11C then finally it was Trevor doing his trip on the 20 bus number 8483.Was I excited when I saw him? Ya better believe I was!
I'm telling you guys,they should fire all the drivers from the Westwood garage and clone Trevor that same number of times.He was just wicked cool.Everyone else just flat out sucks compared to him.
He even drove the bus along one road that was wide open without his foot on the accelerator! It was cruise control along that part. I wouldn't have the guts to try that,I'd be too nervous.
Anyway,we got to 2 of the bus stops thats on the schedule early,even saw a frieght train pass by somewhere in Jersey,I'm still not very familiar with most of the Jersey towns,much to his suprise,since he said he never saw a train pass by every time he got there.We talked quite abit about different things including what pictures were gonna be on his next update of TransitTalk,I mentioned to him about the situation with Flatbush and Ridgewood and he even agree's that you two have major bad luck when your dealing with the Q65.Well when we got close to the toll plaza for the Lincoln Tunnel,it was backed up.It took a half hour to get to the PA from where the traffic jam started but that was ok,I didn't mind.
Overall,suburb.He drove excellently,way better than all the other drivers I've rode with on Red&Tan and hell,even better than all the TA drivers!I'm definantly looking forward to riding with him again.
Maybe this Saturday I'll take a round trip with him on the 11C from the GWB-Spring Valley and back.Hell no maybe about it I will.If anyone else wants to tag along with me,by all means,feel free to join me.I'll be going to College Point first on Saturday then head out to the GWB to ride with Trevor on his 5:45p trip on the 11C.Anyone wishes to come,meet me at platform 20 of the GWB at 5:30p.
It was a pleasure riding with you today Trevor,your nice guy,very funny.You've definantly have my respect.See ya on Saturday.
All I can say is thank you! I try! Looking forward to having you on board again and even with a few others!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor
I'm taking a week-long course in April and since they're offered in major cites... I decided that I'd like to come "home" for that week - so I'll most definitely try to squeeze in a trip (or two).
Wayne
HEY....Why didnt you ever invite me along with you...Trev? I'm feelin' slighted here....
Who says you need an invite? Just go.That's what I did even though I told Trevor I was going before hand.I'm gonna ride with him again on his round trip on the 11C on Saturday which departs from the GWB at 5:45PM.If you wanna ride with us,be at the GWB by 5:30,that's when I'll try to get there after taking care of some business at College Point.
Trevor or "V TRAIN B47 Bus",
What's your (Trevor) schedule? I may take a ride up with you for a bit. You only go to the GWB?
Ray
No,he does a trip on the 20 from Palisades Center Mall to the PABT on Wednesday,leaving PCM at 4:10 and arriving at the PABT at 6:03 then from there he does a trip on the 14E to Montvale,not sure after that. Thursday's and Friday's he relieves the 1:45 trip on the 11C from the GWB at Westwood,from there continues onto Spring Valley then goes to the PABT as a 11A,not sure of the rest of schedule after that. Saturday he does a trip on the 11C from the GWB at 5:45 to Spring Valley and back which is the one I'm gonna be on.He does other trips on Saturday and Sunday too but I forgot what they are.He does do another round trip on the 11C on Sunday as well at about the same time.
hey lady!guees what? im in the city!!!Had to attend a family matter,and had some time to spend here before i go back... so where can wqe hook up?
How bout tommorow at Main St Flushing? You could wait for me at either the entrance to Macy's which is right there when you walk off the escalator thats in front of the station or at the Q65 bus stop thats by the Cohen's Fashion Optical.Tommorow I'm gonna ride with Trevor again so we can ride with him together.what do ya about that?
hey im game... i dont have to leave until late tommorow nite anyway.... so it will be my chance to meet the very outspoken V Train.... and i'm looking forward to it to... I'm in Brooklyn,a VERY long way from Flushing.... maybe we can find a half-way point of each of us ....like 74th/Roosevelt ave[E/F/V/R]?
Well there is no 7 train from Times Sq this weekend so I'd have to get either the W to Queensboro Plz or the R to 74.Which one do you think would be better for us?
what way would be closer for you? im next to the G...a strait line for me to Queens.
oh damn.Taking the W would've been the quickest way for me but since your by the G train,I can take the R train and meet you at Queens Plaza.Just make sure your at the front of the station where the 10 car marker is cause I'm gonna be in the front of the R train since I'm taking it from Times Sq.Please be at Queens Plaza between 1 and 1:30 ok?I'm gonna send you an email right now cause there's something important you should know about me that I don't want anyone else here to know about.Keep an eye out for someone wearing a completely white jacket and a dark hat with the MTA logo on it when you see an R show up.
gotcha......
Alright then.I'll see you later on.I'll be on later in the morning at about 10:30 or 11 if there is anything else you want to know.Right now,I'm off to catch some zzzzz's.
kool.see ya then.....
hey lady!guees what? im in the city!!!Had to attend a family matter,and had some time to spend here before i go back... so where can wqe hook up? send me a email so we can rap....
Hey, Trevor! Maybe we have a BusTalk/SubTalk gathering on your bus...I think it'd be great! We can have heypaul bring his gas grille to cook up some chili dogs and burgers....I could bring a wine cooler and a card table for some rounds of cardgames or a chess board.
Gimme a holler!
BMTman this actually happened in Scotland.
Stagecoach the parent Company of Coach USA introduced a batch of new services in the Glasgow area a couple of years back. They offered unlimited travel for a very low fare.
Pensioners could travel ALL WEEK for £3------about $4.50 in your money.
This of course proved VERY popular and a lot of people took advantage of the offer. They would ride the bus all day, bring their own food and drink(tea/coffee in thermo flasks) and "other" beverages.
Some woman would bring knitting to do and the gents brought the cards.
It was cheaper to sit on a hot bus with your friends in the winter than sit at home alone with the heating on.
Im hoping to get to the USA this year and a trip on Trevor's bus will be on my list.
Not only that. They saved money on Heating bills too! :)
Yep it was cheaper to stay on the bus than sit at home in front of a fire.
I'm down, just let me know when!
Trevor
Hi Trevor, just one thing we're forgetting. Will there be room for actual "passengers" on this bus? ;)
Yea, I'm bringing the 40s and the smoke.....8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Excellent! I know you like to roll a phatty. :)
Uhhh you mean Gimme a Holllaaa!!
-R143 AcelaExpress2005
Did he serve a buffet style/salad bar for his customers?
Nah,even he can't be that perfect.But announcing some bus stops,those in particular with connections was good and he had a recorded message of his voice that you could hear every time he opened the doors to the bus.Up till yesterday I didnt notice that the Cruiser buses had a speaker on the outside.Its right above the door.
I've heard that the WMATA Neoplans have squeaky joints? That's interesting, because I don't htink that's a Neoplan artic thing. After all, SEPTA has had their neoplan artics for 3 (wow, it's already been that long!) years, and I actually ride an artic only route (27) once in a while, and I don't remember the squeaky joints at all. Anyway, are the WMATA Neoplans as, for loack of better terms, bouncy at all? I know that SEPTA's artics don't give that much of a smooth ride as their 40ft counterparts. Do other artics, like NABI and New Flyer, have this same type of ride?
The Westchester County Neoplans were like that when they came in, with squeaky joints...it SEEMS to be a 21st Century Neoplan thing...i dunno
HEHE! i love those neoplan i think those or the only "offical" neoplans with the DDC60 in them . With something that fassssssst offcourse they have squeaky joints :D!!!!! LOL
Same for the NYCT D60's when they were new. They were noisy as hell.
NABI 436 and NFI D60LF that Samtrans and VTA just newly received have good and smooth acceleration and quiet, thanks to the Cummins ISL engine. In SF, the new Neoplan AN460 with Cummins ISM have better acceleration, power, and torque. That's suitable for hilly routes that Muni has. However, those AN460s have louder noise than 436s and D60LFs. For the joints, NFI seems to have better performance.
Stephen
Than again in septa the buses have slow acceleration and quiet if you seat in the front. And i think think the t-a tweak the suspension a bit they are not as bunch as before. And do you have a longer movie of the SF artic?
Ooops, I don't have any long movies of the new grey Neo Artic right now...sorry~
Stephen
ok do you have any long movies of any artic?
Not to me, they seem to be rigid in terms of shock absorption, didn't really feel anything when I rode them. WMATA's C40LFs on the other hand are real bouncy.
Having ridden a SEPTA Neo once (in 2001) and the WMATA Neos yesterday, I don't recall a squeaky noise on the SEPTA Neos. The SETPA bus was on the R5 Express Shuttle after the Fort Washington bridge washout so we had quite a variety in types of running including some highways and some streets. Both buses had very good pickup and maintained speed well. The WMATA trip was down Georgia Avenue so the speed wasn't exactly impressive, and the road was yet yesterday. I have been on the D60HFs in New York on the M79, M86, and M102, but you don't exactly go very fast on one of those, especially on 86th Street.
since 2001 septa seen to slow them down some what no that slow but tweak a few gears for for slower bus pick up. But been on a neoplan buses with a speeding bus driver and those buses can and indeed can move but take a few sec. I heard that NYMTA slow those things down to 42mph 42mph for a artic is preetty slow pick up due to the fact it weight 62,000 pounds and more like it never will reach 42mph in nyc anyway reaching 40mphs you aare lucky. But still that don't matter if it is sent to jersey on the e-way with ever car going 80+ mph and that bus go 42mph that much case a traffic jam.
Is express bus service available all day to Midtown Manhattan from the area around the Woodhaven Blvd. station on the IND Queens Blvd. line?
If yes, which routes?
Thanks in advance.
Jim D.
You're thinking of hte QM15. It runs into Manhattan through late morning, and starts from Manhattan around noon. Saturday service consists of one trip in each direction (AM in, PM out). Call Green Bus Lines (718-995-4700) or check its website for exact times.
There's also Triboro's QM10 route which begins at Lefrak City.
Just to add to my post...on Triboro's web site is schedule info for the QM10. It's basically a rush hour route with only 2 trips to Manhattan after 10:45 AM (at 1:15 and 2:59 PM). From Manhattan to Queens, it runs from 11:23 AM to 6:53 PM, with most service in the peak period. No weekend service.
Doesn't the QM12 also stop a few blocks down from the IND Woodhaven Blvd station?
Okay, how many buses are on the Bx12? I was looking at the bus pics on this website and I saw the WONDERFUL pics taken by Trevor while he was at Orchard Beach back in 2000. He took pics of the artics. A couple of them were from KB (#1086 and 5424) while the rest of the Bx12s were from GH. My point is that there were a lot of Bx12s there at Orcahrd Beach. So, how many Bx12 buses run on a typical day? Also, are these buses used fro school trippers?
Ray
60 something runs.
Is there a such thing as a school bus roster? I was chatting with my frind about this possible school bus strike in the city. Is there a such thing? Thanks in advance.
Ray
I saw this bus on the flatbead near ULmer park garage comning home from work. the doors are missing, most of the seats and the back. Quality control sticker and the label "MTA-New York City Bus" is gone too. Guess Ulmer Park loses another bus. Do they get a new one?...
B64-#9081-NOVABUS
I figures, UP and FP keep loses buses without replacements, that's pathetic. I guess there's going to be less service for UP and FP routes.
It figures, UP and FP keep loses buses without replacements, that's pathetic. I guess there's going to be less service for UP and FP routes.
Wrong! As the Artics keep rolling in, expect older buses to be scrapped and/or transferred to other depots. Relax my friends-you'll have buses in due time.
#9607 Q32
I hope those Artics get to Manhattan as soon as possible, I don't think UP and FP can take it any longer! We need more buses here, I really, really hope Brooklyn gets something other than pre-1990 buses. :(
Yeah right, UP & FP seem to get no replacements for a lost 1988 TMC. Hopefully, when Hudson Pier is scheduled to close, UP & FP will get better buses. Since UP lost the B8, B68 and B82, it was NEVER the same :-( [the B8 is my home route BTW and I wish it never got transferred to ENY but at least in JG, there's a variety of RTS's, NF's and CNG Orions.]
Are you working in Fresh Pond right now? Did you see anythin' interesting? I will stop over there on Sunday, I will be waiting along the station ramp(across the street from the bar).
OK, I'll look for you by the ramp, gun in hand. (just kidding)
Let me know a time frame and I'll come out and check. Also, check my next post on Fresh Pond depot.
BIG AL
You don't have to sound so harsh!
Anywayz, I will be wearing my blue Phat Farm sweat suit(sleeves are light blue). I usually hide my face under the hood, but I will take it it off to reveal my look when I see you. Also, I will be wearing my blue Tims(boots). I will be leaning my body over the side of the ramp(smoking a cig maybe, I haven't decided), and if you see someone watching every bus that passes by, then that is me. I will probably wear my glasses, but I'm not sure.
How does 5 P.M. on Sunday sound? I'll probably say , "bring out more nine-ones(9-1's) and nine-fives(9-5's)", and stop torturing us with those ENY three-nines(3-9's)!"(just kidding). I'm actually pretty quiet, and not really noticed when I walk around in the dark, I keep myself hidden(esp. around Palmetto St.). No one would ever imagine that I'm a bus buff, they probably think I sell drugs or something(which I don't) because of my creepy look. Don't get crazy when you actually see me.
BLX recalls being a new dispatcher at Fresh Pond around June 1984. Couldn't believe there was a bar right alongside the pull in lane. Back then it was called the Ponder Inn. BLX recalls a bus buff named Joey who hung out at Ridgewood Terminal. Back then the shack was wooden and no lock on the door. We kept the phone at the depot and brought it out at 6am and back with the 2-10pm tour. Joey practically lived at Fresh Pond depot or at the RWD shack. When BLX was a b/o out of Crosstown (late 78-mid 79) there was a buff named Victor. He also hung at the depot or rode around on the buses. Because BLX was not familiar with Brooklyn, Victor was a big help when passengers asked questions. BLX went to Flushing summer of 79. Bruce hung out at Main & Roosevelt and knew everyone's run, pass #, vacation, rdo's, etc. Bruce always carried two small transistor radios. Bruce couldn't hold a full time job due to some learning problems, but could recall all the b/o's runs & dispatcher tricks at the snap of a finger. Just like Rain Man. Another guy haging at Main & Roosevelt was Joe (not to be confues with Joey). Many b/o's gave Joe parts of uniforms and he wore them out on the street. People thought he was a b/o or dispatcher (same uniform, white shirts took effect mid 90's). Joe would yell at new b/o's to 'pull the bus down', or 'it's time to go'. New Jacks thought he was a dispatcher. Anybody out there know of Joey, Bruce or Joe? Good luck at Fresh Pond Big Al, I'm sure that it's changed since BLX worked there in 1984-85.
Hey BLX, the bar near Fresh Pond is called Manny's Bar. And what about the Corato I(one) Pizzeria on the other side of FP Road, was that always there? 1984, that's a long time, I don't remember much abot the FP fleet, until I got older. Every year that passes, FP because more, and more RTS dominated and changing to what it is now.
Can you tell me about the Grummans? I wasn't around long enough to see them. Back then, FP's fleet was at the top of the hill, now things have changed.
I hope to see Big Al tommorow at 5 P.M..
P.S.: I hope he reads your post. It might give him an idea of what could happen.
As reflected by my BT handle, I've been keeping track of FP's fleet since the early 70's. I remember seeing the first Grumman rolling down Metropolitan Ave., #323. Was really modern looking back then. BTW, FP had got dumped with many old relics back in the 70's as well.
The Corato I Pizzaria across from the Depot has only been in that location for a year or 2.It previously was diner/resturant called Masbach's which was there as long as I remember.(Lived in Ridgewood til I was 16)Corato I used to be on the same side as the Depot right next to Henry's Dept.Store.
Ho about Pelligrino's? That was a nice place to have a party. Wife grew up in Middle Village and swore by Corato's Pizza as being the best. I preferred Rosa's? Pizza on Cooper Ave. Carlo's on Metro wasn't so bad either.
I think that's were Burger King is now.And as for pizza,I always thought that Benny's on Gates and Seneca(across from Lindeman's Drugs)was good.
Joey the Buff from Fresh Pond is alive and well! Because of tight security, it is impossible for him to get into FP depot, but he still knows the vast majority the drivers and monitors the equipment as it comes in and out of the "house". He is quite friendly with lots of us on the subway side as well: motormen, conductors, station agents and those who formerly held these titles who are now part of the supervisory ranks. Joey "books" virtually anything that moves: boats, taxicabs, freight railroad cars, and private bus lines from all over the area. He'll go to Atlantic City at least once a month with his father o bus watch. He goes to Las Vegas at least twice a year with pop as well, the only guy I know who goes to these places and refuses to gamble! He knows how to get to that bus depot, has befriended some of those drivers and his goal is to get his body into that depot one of these days to snoop around!
"Joey "books" virtually anything that moves: boats, taxicabs, freight railroad cars, and private bus lines from all over the area."
Sounds like Joey would make a good dispatcher !
Bill "Newkirk"
He sure would make a great dispatcher. And in the old days he used to do subway dispatchers sheets. His has a learning disability in that he has a hard time reading. He did graduate from a special school. He can read the first 3 letters of a word, after that he substitutes letters to make a completely different word. If someone could read a TA civil service test to him he could easily pass it. He would know the answers.
Hey Bill, are you going to stop by FP tommorow? Its the first time I'm going to meet any Bustalker in person.
Sorry, I was working on the wicked W today. Just got home.
Oh, that's okay. I was just hoping you would stop by when I met Big Al. Maybe next time.
I think I've seen him at the token booth at Fresh Pond Road.
Another guy haging at Main & Roosevelt was Joe (not to be confues with Joey). Many b/o's gave Joe parts of uniforms and he wore them out on the street. People thought he was a b/o or dispatcher (same uniform, white shirts took effect mid 90's). Joe would yell at new b/o's to 'pull the bus down', or 'it's time to go'. New Jacks thought he was a dispatcher.
That's hilarious!
JD
Oh, and I forgot to add. I hope "Bill from Maspeth " is reading this, maybe he can drop by so all of us can meet. We can have a meeting of Bustalkers.
I'm going to leave my place at 4:30 P.M. and I will arrive at the ramp. I've posted what I look like ii the previous post.
One note I didn't mention yesterday was that I saw a 16Y run and noticed how full it was. I didn't see anyone standing but it seems like this route is one WMATA's success stories along with the B30. On the B30 I have witness at least five passengers most of the time with the average being 10. The lowest I have seen was about 3 and the highest being over 20.
On the other hand the MD to VA routes have seemed to be less successful, with both the 14 and the N11 and 13 losing midday service and having their service levels cut back. I do think the MD to VA routes that would be more successful would be the ones that run either from Southeast to Virginia and Prince George's to Virginia, since the possibility of using local and express routes would be more viable with these areas being more populated.
The 14 had potential, VA killed it by not letting the buses run in the shoulder of the interstate. No one is going to take a bus that sits in the same traffic you have to drive through, by the time you get to one of the 14 stops, you can get to Tysons or Bethesda faster. I wonder if the 14 would be used by anyone if it was extended to Silver Spring only stopping at the J4 stops?
I never factored that in the equation.
That is the primary reason it has failed. When asked, people said it wasn't worth the trouble of taking the bus since it took not just a little but a lot longer than driving.
VDOT, thank you for screwing over what could have been a very successful bus route. Sincerely, Oren H.
That's their business. And the funny thing is they let made it possible to let cars go on the emergency lanes of I-66 during rush hour. OH ITS OK TO ALLOW CARS TO DO IT BUT NOT BUSES. Yea I second that, Thanks VDOT.
VDOT also put lanes on I-66 west of Vienna in the median and when Metro complained that VDOT never asked them if they (WMATA) still wanted them for an extension of the Orange Line, VDOT claimed they weren't aware WMATA wanted to possibly expand there.
What does VDOT smoke and how often do they smoke it?
Whenever WMATA puts a new route into service, they should announce it either by put advertisements on buses in the area that new route is going to run in and /or have the driver announcement on those same routes. The Smartmover did have some press coverage (the story on some of the news stations), but didn't work. The B30 had a little press, in the newspapers when it was about to run as well as a big banner at where it runs(by the way it is still there). The N11 and N13 didn't recieve any press notice at all. Unless you were at Branch Avenue Station when it opened or checked out WMATA's website on a regular basis, you wouldn't know that bus is running and probably that maybe one reason why this route doesn't have much ridership. WMATA should have let riders know about new bus routes are running, hell they could do it without costing a dime or a few pennies, aren't they trying to gain riders?
I have seen many NY Waterway buses over time, more in the last few days with all the ice in the Hudson River.
Tonight was the first time seeing one of these buses that is different.
Normally they have the front that just says Ferry, and no route information on the side.
Tonight I saw 160 and it had a Orange LED Sign on the right side of the bus where the side destination signs are located on Orion Suburbans. It looked nice and stood out.
Is this a test and will they receive more of them?
Too bad NY Waterway doesn't operate real buses.
JD
They don't need to operate larger buses maninly because the ferry's themselves don't carry a huge load per ride. Plus at the ferry terminal, there are multiple lines.
I wish the NYCT would operate smaller buses during overnight periods. The fuel savings alone would cover the cost of these vehicles. Many lines could even use dollar can style mini-buses. The MTA could provide more frequent service at as significantly reduced operating cost.
Since many lines operate only one bus during overnight periods, it would not be a significant investment in new equiptment but would be a signficant reduction in operating costs
While fuel costs might indeed dip from running smaller vehicles overnight, maintenance costs would soar since the parts requirements are very different from larger buses. Besides, NYCT's highest cost factor for bus service is the Operator's salary...would the TWU or the ATU go for a negative differential for running smaller buses? Somehow I don't think so.
David
I wish the NYCT would operate smaller buses during overnight periods. The fuel savings alone would cover the cost of these vehicles. Many lines could even use dollar can style mini-buses. The MTA could provide more frequent service at as significantly reduced operating cost.
This is one of the most common myths of transit operation and I'm really surprised to see it here.
First, the savings in fuel consumption would be marginal at best. MTA could not provide more frequent service because far and away the most expensive component of operating cost is the driver. And, as David mentioned, the small savings in fuel costs would be more than offset by the need to maintain an entirely new inventory of parts.
Second, it really is not practical to have a fleet of "part time" buses (unless that part time is the peak hour, of course). MTA already has 4500 buses to use during the day, so why not just use the same ones at night? Additionally, small buses end up costing more than heavy-duty full-size buses because they don't last as long. You'd have to replace an $85,000 Blue Bird at least three times to keep it in service as long as you could make one $250,000 RTS last.
Also, a lot of runs serve peak periods as well as off-hours. So if an operator's run goes from 4.00pm to midnight, he/she will need a large bus for the beginning of the shift but maybe not for the end. However, the costs of deadheading to swap out the large bus for a small bus would be outrageous - and clearly not worth it to save 92 cents in fuel consumption. You could argue "Yeah, but that small bus could just meet the big bus on the road." OK. But then you'd have to pay someone to bring the small bus out and drive the big bus back, and it's not like those trips don't use fuel, too.
They don't need to operate larger buses maninly because the ferry's themselves don't carry a huge load per ride.
The NY Waterways buses I've seen in Midtown aren't that small - they appear to be about 35 feet long. A 35-foot transit bus would look right at home on that operation.
JD
I saw it also!
Good ol' Alexandria City superintendent gave us TC Williams students the day off tomorrow, so I'm gonna spend the day on my "Metro Medley" itinerary:
I always start on the 9A because it's my route. From there I ride to Old Town (as previously mentioned, I live in Alexandria, near Potomac Yard and of course Four Mile Run) and hop a 10B to Ballston, transfer to the 38B, transfer to the 80, transfer to the H4 at Brookland, transfer to a 30 at Tenleytown to Friendship Heights, take a RideOn 11 to Silver Spring, take a 70/71 to Archives and get a 13 there back to the Pentagon. If I have time I may take that 30 to Farragut Square, get an N3 to Friendship Hgts., and take a B11 from there to Rosslyn, 38B to Ballston, and a 22/24/25 to the Pentagon or a 23A to Crystal City where I can grab my 9A...
OR I may even get a 3 at Rosslyn, a 26E at East Falls Church, a 26W on Broad St., a 28T or 3T to Tysons and a 28 from there to King St. or a 23 from there to Crystal City. Should be a very good trip, great mix of equipment expected, especially Neoplans.
btw stay tuned for a report on my trip and my long-awaited GEORGE review
I've seen those buses quite a bit. They store them at the Arlington garage across from my apt. I saw one in Falls Church the other day but it was out of service.
Your trip sounds fun. I think Presiden't Day weekend, I'll take a nice bus run on a Saturday. It sounded similar to what you were doing, except I want to get a bus to College Park and take it through my old campus, so I may take something up towards RI Ave. station and get the 83 or 86.