Enjoy Your NABI Ride on the Bay Bridge...
Right Click here for the Video...
Stephen
Nice, very nice ride but I could not hear the sound. Is this a Cummins engine?
Yeah, it has a Cummins M11 and Allison B400. I was trying to reduce the file size by reducing the video quality only while remaining the sound quality the same. But wmv format won't let me do so, so when the bus was on the I580, you can hear some strange sound because of the wind from the outside of the bus.
Anyway, try to turn up the speakers and you can slightly hear the engine sound...
See my post to SubTalk about some goings on between Roger T. & Sonny Hall.
why shoud i go to sub talk . here is your post so we can read it on your thread.
Local 100 in fighting continues
Posted by Thurston on Fri Nov 1 08:27:18 2002
Got my hands on the Nov 1st issue of "The Chief". Mark Daly writes a article about the current state of negotations. At the end I found:
"In 2000, Mr. (Sonny) Hall was named by Mr. (Willy) James as Local 100's representative to the committee to discuss the NYC Transit- MaBSTOA merger (they part of the TA, but seperate from Local 100).
Mr. (Roger) Toussaint, who has feuded with Mr. Hall since taking office, said he would not continue that arrangement. "No one other then myself negotiates for Local 100," he said.
The article also talks about how the new MTA structure may effect 1,200 engineers & project managers, who are part of Locals 375 & 37.
Today im planning a N20 ride from Flushing to Hicksville and connecting to the N94 for Woodbury. Im giving myself plenty of time to make the trip(the n20 leaves at 3:23p.m.)-hopefully it wont have much problems. I'll post my observations tonight. Also, ive noticed some orion V still have MSBA on them instead of LIBUS. Are these not to be repainted.
N78-#372-orion V-CNG
N94-#631-Orion V
For all those people who commented about on how long the n20 trip is, they are right. and my bus was late(at least 25 minutes late to be exact)-we got stuck due to 2 major accidents on northern boulevard. My driver decided to pass passangers along the route because his follower WAS on time and picked up the passangers(those we passed were not really happy about being passed by to begin with). Limited stop service is needed on this line to speed service on it. it couldnt hurt.
N20-#187-Orion V-CNG
N94-#636-Orion V
Yup, the traffic is terrible on that line. Northern Blvd is a nightmere. Not only is it overly congested, the traffic lights are timed so you stop at almost every one! And when there are accidents or construction, no one directs traffic, you just sit at the lights.
I didn't see any accidents coming home tonight, but there was construction just over the border in Nassau, was backed up through Little Neck. As to why they do construction at rush hours, that's the way the North shore works.
People don't want work noise at 2am (this is NIMBY country, big time!).
Alot of the issues aren't LI Bus's fault, but the awful traffic conditions that plaugue the N20/21 route.
Limited stop service wouldn't hurt. Personally I'd like to see N20's to/from Hicksville and N21s to/from Glen Cove make limited stops between Roslyn and Flushing during rush hours. Roslyn-Flushing buses would make all local stops.
A few AM Flushing bound trips, mainly on the N21, do skip Great Neck LIRR. I happen to take these trips in the AM, and skipping Great Neck makes a big difference in time savings.
I would do this:
7-10am, Flushing bound buses from Glen Cove and Hicksville will make limited pickups west of Roslyn. 3-6pm, Glen Cove and Hicksville will make limited dropoffs west of Roslyn.
Roslyn-Flushing and Great Neck-Flushing would make all stops.
That one always bunches with the 3:47pm. Often I'll see an empty 3:47pm bus ahead of a packed 3:23pm, passing through Greenvale Hicksville bound.
Also because 3:23pm uses the slow L10G buses (100-245) that can barely get out of their own way, if the 3:47pm is a 300, it will catch up. I had 164 going back, top speed about 30mph, 10mph on a hill.
Even though they had some probs, the 300s are much better buses than those slow L10 buses. The diesel Orion V's are quick, too bad they are being scrapped (I'd rather see the 100s go first!).
the 3:19 was orion v #626, mine was #187 and the 3:34 was #365. The highest bus i saw was #394 though.
Did the bus behind pass you? That happens often with that run, which is why I always take the 3:47pm (gets there at Greenvale first!).
Looking to to business for suffolk gillig bus(#9602)-please email me price and when it will be ready so i can send it out to you. email me at above address with info.
S-
TO F-
May I ask what Gillig bus that is?
Is it a model or a real bus?
Thanks,
Stephen
A model. I have been scratch building HO scale 30-foot Gillig Phantom models over the Summer, and plan to expand to 35 and 40-foot versions per request. Thanks!
-Fred
May I take a look of how it looks like?
That sounds interesting,
Stephen
Stephen, I have none built at the moment and no pics currently, but caine824 can tell you more about them, as can Yours Truly. Feel free to e-mail me about the models; hope to hear from you soon!
-Fred
No problem; please e-mail me at flxible169@yahoo.com regarding this. Thanks!
-F.
How much do you charge for a 93 Flxible Metro 30 footer?
Since I did the shortest route/ride topic a month ago, I decided to make a "longest route/ride" topic. You know the deal. Post what you thing is the longest route, or longest ride is out of the 5 boroughs. Let's make this interesting.
Here's what I Think:
Q44
S78
S74
S79
B15 to JFK.
If anyone has ever rode the S74/S78 its entire length, tell me how long it took.
Ok
Longest route in the system: S78
In the 5 boroughs:
Brooklyn--> B15
Manhattan--> M3(but the M101 is very close)
Queens--> Q44
Bronx--> Bx40
Staten Island--> S78
Express--> X1
Any differences, I'm sure there will be.
The ride on the S74 and 78 from St.George to Tottenville is about an hour and 10mins,longer if there's traffic along Hylan Blvd.
As for longest routes I would say:
Manhattan:M3,M15,M101
Bronx:Bx15,Bx41
Brooklyn:B6,B15 to JFK,B41,B44,B82
Queens:Q24,Q44
Staten Island: S74,S78,S79.
I would like to add:
Staten Island: S59 (Pt. Richmond to Tottenville)
Brooklyn: B46, B78
Queens: Q54, Q60
Bronx: Bx1
I think you mean the B47. The B78 which no longer exists was one of the shorter routes.
BIG AL
You are right, sorry.
In Manhattan the M1 when it goes to/South Ferry is longer than the M15 and probably close to the M3 and M101. In years past when the M101 ran all the way south to City Hall it definitely won the longest route award for Manhattan without competition.
In Queens the Q46 probably comes close.
In Bklyn: B6,8,44,82
In Bx: Bx8,12,41
The 5 longest routes in each borough, in my view:
*= longest route of that borough in my opinion
Brooklyn-->B6,B15*,B44,B61,B82
Manhattan-->M3*,M5,M15,M101 Longest crosstown M21
Queens-->Q44*,Q46,Q54,Q58,Q88
Bronx-->Bx1,Bx8,Bx40*,Bx42,Bx55
Staten Island-->S62,S74,S76,S78*,S79
Express-->X1*,X10,X17,X22,X28
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Note: Most express buses serve 2 boroughs so the 1 borough thing doesn't apply to expresses.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that the X63 and X68 are longer than any of the Brooklyn expresses.
Mark
I saw bus #9620 on the S90 but it was heading back to the Hampton Jitney Depot in Southampton (THE OMNI). That's where it resides I guess but it's not common for it to do so.
Has anyone seen any 40 foot (or 35 foot) Orion V/CNGs on the 47 on Saturdays and on which runs? Please answer ASAP. Whenever I've seen Saturday 47 trips, it has been the new 35 foot Orion Vs.
Rode 5561 this morning. 5619 was elsewhere, I assume needing maintenence of some sort. That bus has a loud engine! I could hear it from several blocks away once I got off. Also, 5569, one of the 35 foot CNGs, was on the 46. 5611 was on the 42 and is a 2002 model, meaning 5612 is the lowest numbered 5600 up at Gaithersburg.
Got on a packed 2002 orion V on 46 after school, was literily standing next to the farebox, driver punched in "not in service". saw one of the orion VI's at rockville at about 4:40 today waiting to start either 59 or 55(in that bus bay) I spotted it while i'm on 45 (international cutaway) , i also rode 5554 on 46 on the way home.
Got a super early start today, I had to catch the 6:25am N21 to Flushing, which in the early morning, is as smooth as silk.
I took the 8:45am 171 (a Flxible Metro, 6V-92 powered) to Forest avenue Paramus. I did a foot tour of Paramus today. I went to Van Saun park (up Forest avenue), which is absolutely beautiful this time of year (and took photos, no trouble anywhere).
Then Bergen Mall, which isn't as bad as some have made it out to be. Even at the early hour (10:30am) the mall was reasonably busy, way more people walking around than in that ghostown Palisades mall.
Then I walked down Spring Valley ave and Rochelle ave to Garden State Plaza. The fall leaves were just so beautiful, so I took more pics (we don't get as nice foiliage on LI). It was alot of walking, but it was relaxing. Saw alot of NJT "baby RTS's" at the Bergen Mall.
I spent the afternoon at Garden State Plaza, then got the 4:26pm 171 back to GWB. It was a Flx Metro again, this time a D series unit (the one with the Cummins, right). Man NJT's Flxibles run great. The 171 used to run MCI's, but the Metros are better suited for the route, being more "transit" style.
I also saw an NJT RTS coming out of GWB with a nice bright orange Bailois sign, I think the number was 2325 or something.
On the N21 going back, tons of traffic. The 6:12pm didn't show until 6:22pm (just standing watching countless Q12,15,and 26 buses pass by). Loads of traffic, construction work (in rush hour!!) and countless double parked cars delaying the trip. Ran 20 minutes late by the time I got home.
Gotta love that Long Island traffic!
The one with the bright orange sign is 2636 outof the Meadowlands Garage, It was probably on the 181 or 188 routes out of the birdge. It is a nice a bus, nice interior. She is one of a kind, This is the rehab process that the 95-96 Nova A's wlll be goind threw soon. Boy knows they need it!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage.
Yeah it was 2636, on the 188 route. What are the buses getting in the new Rehabs? Will they all get those nice Bailios signs?
[Then Bergen Mall, which isn't as bad as some have made it out to be. Even at the early hour (10:30am) the mall was reasonably busy, way more people walking around than in that ghostown Palisades mall.]
As was posted previously, your visit to Palisades Center for some reason caused a reaction totally different than visits to that mall by most of the rest of us! The sales figures at Palisades are surely many percentage points higher than at Bergen Mall. I agree that Bergen Mall isn't so bad, but the crowds of shoppers at Palisades Center most times is heavy. Even when the stores are closed, it is not a ghostown, thanks to so many restaurants and the large cinema complex. I suggest you return there again so that you can convey a more accurate portrait of Palisades center.
Also it wasn't just that there weren't many people there, but many stores had their gates down as late as 12 noon.
If I do go there again it will be on a Sunday, which is the "big day" for the mall, when Bergen shoppers come out.
Also, perhaps those sales figures represent the purchases at the big box stores, which alot of people just go to from the outside (and not within the mall).
Personally it was just not my kind of mall. Garden State Plaza and Roosevelt Field are more representative of the kind of malls I like to hang out in.
[If I do go there again it will be on a Sunday, which is the "big day" for the mall, when Bergen shoppers come out.]
You will find big crowds there on Saturdays also. And Saturday bus service is better than Sunday's, e.g., the Tappan Zee Express runs Saturdays (infrequently) but not on Sundays.
Don't do this on a Sunday....Bergen County is CLOSED on Sunday!!
[Don't do this on a Sunday....Bergen County is CLOSED on Sunday!!]
For clarification, Palisades Center is in Rockland County, New York, so it is open on Sunday. Qtraindash7's reference to the Bergen Shoppers coming out referred to the fact that many Bergen County, New Jersey, residents run up to shop in Rockland County because malls in Bergen County are closed on Sundays.
More specifically, everything in Paramus is closed on Sunday. I don't understand what the logic is behind that, unless Paramus has some ridiculous blue laws that prohibit any kind of retail activity on Sundays.
Bergen county still has the blue law. No businesses that sell clothes and electronics are allowed to be open, as well as beer sold, on Sunday in Bergen County.
It's hard to believe this law still exists, but it hasn't been voted down.
I was always wondering why some malls were closed on Sundays.Now that's just the stupidest law I ever heard.Losing one whole day of business is bad,I'm suprised a lot of stores don't go out of business because of that damn law.Why the heck was that law implemented for? Is the Bergen County representive or whoever some religious person who believes business shouldn't be conducted on Sunday's? C'mon,that's truly pathetic.
Yeah, even here in Sea Cliff businesses are open on Sunday, well, whatever few businesses we have.
I guess there's a political machine in Bergen county, that keeps the law in effect. Fortunately, we got rid of our political machine here in Nassau, last election day.
Actually, the blue laws (which are still adhered to in Bergen County) stipulate that business not be conducted on one day of the week. Englewood, Teaneck and Paramus are three Bergen County communities with large Orthodox Jewish populations, and they have stores that are open on Sunday instead of Saturday. On Sundays, Cedar Lane, which is Teaneck's main Orthodox Jewish business strip, is fully active with everything open.
Blue laws were in effect in New York City as well until about 1972 when department stores started to be open on Sundays. Prior to that, only restaurants, gas stations, garden centers, pet stores, possibly supermarkets and Orthodox Jewish businesses operated that day. Since that time, Saturday and Sunday are virtually indistinguishable from each other in terms of secular shopping- except that liquor stores are still closed in New York State on Sundays.
One anachronistic side effect of the blue laws still exists, but in diminishing presence: parking meters being free on Sundays. Meters have historically been in effect on Sundays in Orthodox Jewish areas, but now in many other areas as well. Downtown Flushing, Jackson Heights, Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and the upper east and west sides now have meter regulations seven days a week.
There are still some buses that run on Saturdays but not Sundays, such as the BX20, Q76 and 79. Prior to cutbacks, so did the Q44VP (now 74) and 75. Most buses and subways, plus many commuter trains, have tighter headways on Saturdays than Sundays. The B11, which connects the heavily Orthodox shopping areas of Borough Park and Midwood, is a noticeable exception.
One lasting vestige of Sunday being a for-leisure day is the fact that restaurants and hotels don't have lavish brunch buffets on Saturdays.
>>>....as well as beer sold, on Sunday in Bergen County. <<<
This is not true, liquor stores in Bergen County are open on Sunday.
Peace,
ANDEE
I thought I read somewhere, alcoholic beverages were not allowed to be sold on Sunday in Bergen. Well, my mistake...
3706 has one. I got a picture of it at Friendship Heights this evening. Also, 2202 (Northern Orion I think) had one although a Northern Flxible on the S2 did not. I also saw an Orion II on the N6 with a rack, but since it was dark, I could not see the number. One bad thing about the racks on the Orion IIs is they block the crucial number in the unit number, the last one. I had to go up pretty close to see the last number was 6 on 3706.
Does anybody know if they added more runs to the B65 Line? Because lately I've been seeing 2-3 bueses right behind each other. And what is the current number of runs on the B65?
-AcelaExpress2005
Visit Amtrak Modeling at:
http://www.geocities.com/acelaexpress6250
There have been no recent major service changes on the B65. Construction on the downtown end of the line may be causing the buses to run irregularly, which manifests itself as bunching.
I don't have the number of runs available offhand, but I can get it. Why is it important?
David
It's not important, but I would like to know.
-AcelaExpress2005
Visit Amtrak Modeling at:
http://www.geocities.com/acelaexpress6250
I don't normally have to go out to Potomac on the weekend but I did today. I used public transit both ways (most weekdays I do AM only).
Took the 42 (International 5113) to Bethesda. Got there about 15 minutes before the 47 was scheduled to leave. Bus came, driver took his break, came back, and we left promptly at 9:30 AM. It was a pretty fast run, although I got an Orion I (5533) instead of the 40 foot Orion V/CNG I would have prefered. 5820, the bus I used to get on the 37 in the fall of last year, was heading to Bethesda. Maybe I should have gone half an hour later... Going out on Old Georgetown Road was pretty fast, Greentree Road was a little slower with all the curves, and Fernwood was pretty fast once we got past the speedbumps. Rock Spring was deserted. At Montgomery Mall, I thought I had a 5705 sighting, since the unit number on the bus had been moved. I figured they had moved it so it was less noticible, not to mention, it had the banner on the side. Turned out to be 5708, which only had the banner on the right side. The unit number on the front was on the bottom left. 5722 was also there, waiting to start the 26, and had the banners as well. After Montgomery Mall, it was the same as it had been pre 9/1/02, although I had not ever ridden in the Rockvile direction on this portion of the route since the 47 used to end at Montgomery Mall on Saturdays and weekdays, the 38 was faster than the 47 from Grosvenor when the 37 wasn't running. I did a passenger count as we turned onto Greentree, we had about 8 people. The other person who was on the bus when I got off who had gotten on at Bethesda got off at the same stop I did. I then saw 5574 heading back to Bethesda.
Later in the day, I walked to the 38. It came late (5718) and got even later due to all the traffic on Montrose Road at Jefferson and then again at Rockville Pike. I still think they should use the following routing on the 38:
To Wheaton
Same to Montrose and Jefferson
R on Jefferson
Jefferson becomes Executive Blvd
L on Marinelli
Stop: White Flint Metro (do not use loop, stop across from entrance)
Continue Straight
R on Nebel
L on Nicholson
Resume original routing
Reverse to Montgomery Mall
Got off at White Flint, where I decided to walk down Marinelli Road to Montgomery Garage to see what was what. Buses I did see there included:
3900 (no rack, no idea why it was there)
9224
some NABIs
I saw a few MANs but was unable to get pictures
no CNGs
no Neopolans
After taking pictures of 3900 and the buses around the Marinelli Road enterance, I continued to walk down Marinelli to Nebel. I heard the Union Station bound Capitol Limited go by, entered a driveway which came close to the fence of the bus depot, and got the 9224 picture (just happened to be in a place where I could photograph it). Continued up to Nicholson and started to head back to the pike, where I got a .avi clip of Gillig Phantom 5361 on the 38 heading to the mall. Continued walking on Nicholson, saw a WMATA Orion V coming on the C8 towards College Park, which turned out to be 2121. Driver honked as I took the picture. Found a small patch of grass between a building and the bus depot, and a few shots of the SmartMover buses. No way to see the articulated buses from here. Having now walked around the entire yard and used every vantage point possible, I walked back to the Metro station, taking a picture of 5722 (now on the 38, it seems with the 35 not running anymore the 38 and 26 are in a combo) with the banner.
From here on out, things are routine for the most part. Got on the Metro (Breda 4071) and went home. The ATO conked out on the bridge south of Grosvenor so we went in manual as far as Medical Center where the operator turned off the train and then turned it back on. We got up to 70 in the manual run. Got the 42 from Friendship back to the stop where I started the day (International 5138) and went home.
I hope to include pictures of the Orion IIs with bike racks as well as the ones I took today in the next OTP Update.
3900 might be there to do that shuttle from Mid Pike to White Flint. When the V1 ran in Vienna and running shuttles from the station to the Pan Am Shopping Center, there was always a 30 footer on that too. Usually a 5100 series Flx Metro B would do that run.
That does make sense now that I think about it. I wonder why 3900 instead of an Orion II. Maybe so it can be used on other routes if it is really needed.
Speaking of the Mid Pike Plaza Shuttle, I did not see the stop for it from my 38. Is it not a posted stop? I know where the parking spaces are and there is a bus shelter in the middle of them (although it has been there for years).
i saw countless 1999 40' diesel orion V's on 26 today. i saw 5722 as well, that was the only bus where i noted the number. ALL of the '99 40' diesels i saw today had the banner. 5722, however, had the banner on both sides. all the other busses had it on the right side only. I didnt catch any gilligs on 26 today, weird.
38 had lots too, I think they are in a combo. I can assure you that if 5718 was on the 26 at any point today, it did not have a banner. I think 5722 was the second bus in the procession last week. I did see a Gillig on the 38 at one point so it may have made it over to the 26 at some point. I've found that most of the time I ride the 38 on the weekends, there are quite a few 40 foot buses there. I did also see 5603 on the 38. Did you see that one at all on the 26?
i'm not sure, i never saw any of the busses up close, only from a distance. the closest i ever got to one was 5722, where i was right behind it. All the other sightings were either drive bys or from a distance.
I'm not sure where those shuttles actually stop. I was thinking they'd use that shelter area in the middle of the parking lot, too. I guess that is used mainly for the NIH shuttles provided by Priority 1.
Maybe the 30 foot Orion is used instead of the Orion II to have more room for people. Those Orion II's really don't hold a lot, but then again, I don't know how many people actually use that shuttle to begin with.
Considering the number of people who use Grosvenor and the number of spaces currently taken up with construction stuff, I would think it is a rather high number. The Mid Pike Plaza route doesn't even have a route designation or a schedule. All the Metro website says is that there will be a shuttle during rush hours. I wonder where the stop at White Flint is. Probably at the bus loop. Next time I am there, I will look for it. I think they go on Executive Boulevard to Marinelli Road, so travel time should be next to nothing. The bus probably could shuttle back and forth pretty quickly. Why not use a 40 foot bus then instead of borrowing a 30 footer from elsewhere?
Pretty amusing dialouge between a passenger and the driver of my 47 trip this morning. See my other post for details on how I liked the new 47 route.
As we were heading north on Fernwood Road, approaching Democracy, a lady (who got on at Bethesda) pulls the stop request chord as the driver is turning east on Democracy. He passes the J2 stop (he isn't susposed to stop there) and the lady has a puzzled look on her face as the driver moves into the left lane to turn onto Rockledge. He comes to a stop, and then the conversation begins.
Driver: Do you want to get off?
Lady looks around, somewhat puzzled
Driver: Did you want to get off over there? I can let you off at the [NE corner of Democracy and Rockledge].
Lady: No, it is fine
Driver turns onto Rockledge once the light changes and passes the corner
Lady indicates she wants to get off
Driver: You said you didn't want to get off at the corner. Which way are you going?
Lady points back towards Bethesda
Driver: I can't turn this bus around for you, honey. Do you want to get off or not?
Lady doesn't really make much of a response
Driver: OK, I am gonna take you to the mall and you can get the 47 back to Bethesda.
Driver goes onto Montgomery Mall, Lady looks around, still bewildered. Bus arrives at Montgomery Mall.
Driver: OK honey, get off here and wait right in there for the 47 to Bethesda.
Lady gets off. Once everyone gets off the bus who wants to:
Driver: Does everyone know this is the 47 to Rockville?
Oren: Yep.
No response from the other passenger on board
We leave the mall and the driver makes sure the lady is standing in the right place for the 47 back to Bethesda.
Well, here's one for you;
Female passenger boards Westbound Bx12 with a Sedgwick Ave. sign at Jerome Ave.
Female to Driver (me): Do you go to Manhattan?
Driver (trying to merge in to the heavy fordham road traffic): No
Female to Driver: Do you go into Manhattan?
Driver (Stops Bus and looks directly in the female's face): NO
Female nods head and sits down.
Driver at Sedgwick Ave.: LAST STOP !!
Female stands up and says "Oh, you don't go into Manhattan?"
LOL!
Does a MetroCard give a free transfer from a Sedgewick Bx12 to a Bx12 to a 207th Bx12? I've always thought it should be able to, although I hardly ever knowingly get on a bus not going to my destination.
Since we're sharing anecdotes, I remember my last trip on a Ride-On bus. It was comical.
Operator turns corner in an Industrial Park, lady sitting on opposite side of the street runs across, boards bus, and immediately starts fussing with the driver, also a female.
Rider: Why did you go past me yesterday?
Driver: You weren't in the Bus Stop - You were across the Street.
Rider: But I catch your bus every day...
Driver: and EVERY DAY, you're not in the bus stop, you're sitting across the street!
Rider (taking condescending, guilt trip voice): You are a bad person. That was very bad of you.
Driver: I was running 10 minutes LATE yesterday. I don't have time to wait for you to cross the street!
Rider: You are a bad person, that was very bad of you.
Driver: Well, be sitting across the street TOMORROW and see what I do.
Rider: I hope Jesus has mercy on you.
Driver (now shouting): WHAT DOES JESUS HAVE TO DO WITH YOU WAITING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE STREET?
Rider (mumbling): Jesus. I hope he has mercy on you. I should call up on you.
Driver: GO AHEAD AND CALL. MY NAME IS DOLORES, and YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET ME WITH THAT JESUS TRIP EITHER!
My buddy and I were in the back dying with laughter!
Another one:
Passenger: When do the Buses stop running?
Driver (me): Well, I guess when they run out of fuel !!
Actually, the Metrocard does not give you a free transfer from the Local Bx12 (Sedgwick Ave.) to the Limited Bx12 (207 Street), what I do is reset the F/B to "Next Bus Please", and that transfer will allow you to continue on the Limited, sort of a continuation transfer if you will...
That sort of works. I think they should program it so that you can transfer between limiteds and locals in the same direction although not publicize this heavily. You are able to transfer between a southbound M1 and another southbound M2, 3, or 4, for example, right?
Don't know, I've always worked in the Bronx.
In that case, shouldn't your handle be "Surface Transit" instead of "Fifth Avenue Coach Company"?
In my humble opinion, FACC is the "Grand Daddy" of MaBSTOA, and Bus service in NYC. in my humble opinion of course.
Several years ago I was riding the Q60 and this lady boards the bus and barks (not ask) at the driver... "How longs the next bus" to which the B/O replied: "40-feet". She looked at the B/O in disgust and again barked... "How about the one after that" and the B/O said... "It's the same as the one before it". The lady now acting like she was insulted for no reason - marched to her seat. I thought it was hilarious.
Wayne
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Since there is no B and D train over the manhattan bridge why not have the b51 run on weekend too. Lot of people don't like taken the train like me, or even the canal street shuttle bus should got to the Dekalb av station to conecct to the trains.
That's some BS, they should really consider having the B51 running on the weekends, but I also understand that the B51 is like a shuttle for business commuters only.
-AcelaExpress2005
Visit Amtrak Modeling at:
http://www.geocities.com/acelaexpress6250
I've seen recent ridership data on the B51. Midday riding is nearly nonexistent. Midday riding is used by planners as an indication of what weekend riding would be. Hence, it is extremely unlikely that there will be weekend B51 service in the near future.
David
"Midday riding is used by planners as an indication of what weekend riding would be."
This is exactly the reason why "Operations Planning" is a joke. How one can justify using a weekday midday passenger load to anticipate a weekend AM rush-hour or PM rush-hour load is beyond me and indicitive of the malignant ineptness that is the TA.
In Queens, there is as much a "rush hour" on the weekends as during the week, where public transportation is concerned. No, there isn't the same vehicle traffic, nor are children travelling to school, however there are an extraordinary amount of people who do work on the weekends that depend upon public transportation.
But don't ask the TA to increase service on the weekends. The offices are closed weekends. Their offices.
First off, we're talking about the B51 here, not a Queens route. Secondly, obviously SOMEbody needs to go SOMEwhere on weekends, but school ridership makes up a significant amount of the total weekday peak riding, and the students are not riding on weekends (at least not during the AM and PM peaks) in any great numbers. On many routes, at least in Brooklyn, the weekend peak riding is in the middle of the day, not what would be the traditional 6-10 AM/3-7 PM that we see on weekdays. Weekday midday riding consists largely of discretionary riders (shoppers, etc.). These are the people who would avail themselves of weekend service if availble (and they do so where it is available). Finally, service has been increased on weekends in recent years where needed, and if it's required it will be increased again.
David
You know what? I am getting sick and tired of the OP bashing on this board. If I wanted to get into bus DRIVER bashing, I would be typing into the middle of next week! I am not a planner, but like David, I interact with them on a regular basis. Are they perfect? Hell no, but point me in the direction of someone who is. Are all their decisions the right ones? No way. No one mentions any of the better service changes in recent years. All you hear about are the B82, the F-Shuttle mess (and yes it is a mess), the V train (another questionable move), and the Manhattan Bridge service. I guess all of this goes overshadows the highly-successful M60, the equally successful Q46 to LIJ Hospital, and the great scheduling/planning that was done on the Q4420 (despite too having too many LTD stops).
I am not going to get into name-calling, and insults out of fear of getting the board shut down, but I will say this. Stop taking things that are said on this board out of context. The loading guidelines that are used for weekend service are entirely different from the guidelines used for middays Mon-Fri. When "David" spoke of using midday riding patterns to forcast weekend riding, the key word there is forcast. In the absence of actual Saturday riding, you are left to use the most relevant off-peak data available to you. In the case of the B51, the only off-peak data available is weekdays 9am-2pm.
To arbitrarily implement Saturday service on the B51 (or any other route without Saturday service) just to "see what happens" is both costly and counter-productive, especially when there is no reasonable indication that people would ride the damn thing. In case you may have forgotten, it takes money and lots of it to put a bus on the street. Not even Brooklyn67 can justify having Saturday service on the Q79.
Mark
>"No one mentions any of the better service changes in recent years. All you hear about are the B82, the F-Shuttle mess (and yes it is a mess), the V train (another questionable move), and the Manhattan Bridge service. I guess all of this goes overshadows the highly-successful M60, the equally successful Q46 to LIJ Hospital, and the great scheduling/planning that was done on the Q4420 (despite too having too many LTD stops)."<
Myself and a couple of other bustalkers did say there were positives that the planners made over the year.
Some of the positives I said were:
Expanding part time B7 service to weekends and extending it to CI Av
Improving the X27 & x28 over the years
Extending the M31 to the far West side
The Q44 becoming a LTD and extending the Q20(I agree there are a few too many stops)
Introducing Sunday LTD service on the B41,B44,B46(I should of said the M2 also)
See previous posts on the subject "TA planners" if you do not believe I posted positives.
I have to agree. I know I have not been posting lately but I can tell there are alot of positive things but on the other hand to make conversation and critisize the MTA, "people" tend to lok at the Negative things. In terms of the B 51 weekend service, I have to go with David on this because money does play a big role in this. If I wanted to see more service via the Manhattan Bridge at this time the B 51 needs to do two things: 1) serve the Grand St station to replace the shuttle and 2) extend it somewhere (I suggest 4 Av) south to attrack customers. The MTA has come a long way but they are alos human just like us. I admit there are times I wonder what are thinking up there (ex B 82) and other times I am glad they made that move (Limited services).
These BusTalkers who are Saturday/Sunday advocates for new services have to realise this: lots of weekend riding is discretionary. If it's a nice day more people will be out, if it is lousy day, they'll stay home. The TA can't have diffferent schedules for "nice weekend days" and "lousy weekend days".
Hmmm, looks like bustalk is going to be getting good again....
My opinion on all of this: I can understand where Q5Merrick and David are coming from. You can only work what the higher up's are willing to give you, which usually isn't much. No, I don't blame operation's planning on any of the service problems on the weekends.
From a B/O's perspective, I can understand where Brooklyn67 comes from also. B/O's are the front line people who hear all the complaints and opinions of what type of service should be provided. I.M.O. nobody has a full understanding of the circumstanses better than the actual person who has to experience what's going on over the road.
I've always been an advocate of at least giving very minimal service for maybe six months as test or feeler to see what kind of service should be provided. People have been crying for years to restore the Q42 service on the weekends, even though transit feels otherwise. My opinion would be to pull say 1 run from the Q5 and 1 run from the Q85 for the Spring and Summer picks on Saturday, and put 2 runs on the Q42 on Saturday as a test to see what kind of ridership evolves from it. This would cost absolutely nothing additional to transit other than possible lost revenue if it's a bust. If so then discontinue it after the 6 months and if it's a money maker, which I suspect would be, then keep the service and restore the runs to the Q5 and Q85 next pick. Would the bus make as much money as it would have if it were running on the Q5 or Q85? No way in hell. But neither does the Q84. The point is as long as one or two buses can make any profit, then the service no matter how minimal should stay.
BIG AL
Now that is very intersting...
I see what you are saying and in a bussiness point of view that makes sense to experiment on a product especially during off peak time like the summer months. Well with mine and other bus talkers' ideas you would think that if the MTA wants to make a bigger profit, would you want to take your idea and test it on routes like the B 23 or 51; Q 42 or 79; M 98; and others? That is something that I too would ant to gamble on
The M98 doesn't warrant weekend service. My expereince has been it isn't all that crowded at rush hours to begin with, and you can just take the M4 when it doesn't run.
Actually you're very wrong,the M98 DOES get crowded during the rush hours.I've been on it a few times already and each time it was crowded.People on the East Side depend on that route to take them to Harlem and Washington Heights.Maybe weekend service should be experimented on that route and see what happens.
How many of those people could be on the 101? Note that I said my expereince, which includes getting on the M101 LTD with no M98 in sight at 34th only to be passed by a very empty 98 driving on the left in the 50s or 60s, which were heavily congested. Our driver stayed on the right side of the road. What I don't get is why does the M98 have stops separate from the 101-103 downtown? I find it inconvienent that they can't all stop in the same place, since I can take the limited and I can't be in two places at once. I really don't think the ridership on the M4 warrants the need for an additional Washington Heights to Midtown route on the East Side.
That's because the M4 takes forever to make that trip, so a lot of off-peak passengers probably opt for a bus-subway combo instead.
I've ridden a number of very crowded M98's to Washington Heights.
Mark,
In all due respect the Operations Planning Department are years behind the times. I have been told this by a number of managers in the Transit Authority and in the MTA organization. If Transit managers say this then how can you honestly complain that we are bashing operations planning.
Some of their responses are quite honsestly a joke.
An example is about the B-82. A Planner told me "We Know that the B-82 is a disaster. But we can never go back to the old B-5 and B-50 routes. We can not admit that we made a mistake"
Another example is my proposal on revising the B-41 hawks and resume all night service on the B-2 by combing it with the B-31 hawk. David showed it to his boss and both gentlemen liked it. But the planners said it was no good because they do not want to operate different service plans at night than in the day. Yet the Q-1 has round robin service and the #2,#4 and E lines which run express make local stops during the midnight hours as well as the A line during late night hours.
To indicate weekend service based on midday ridership patterns is also a joke. Since the Metro card transfers were started the greatest ridership increase has been middays and weekends. Yes the TA has increased service on the weekend.
But when was the last time they took surveys from passengers about service especially on lines that discontinued weekend service due to low ridership. Guess what they masy have a ridership out there.
There is a saying if the shoe fits wear it.
In all due respect with answers like the above the TA planners are indeed a "joke"
Thats my opinion
And to the great workers of the Department of Buses who really care
I salute you for a great jobe: Drivers and dispatchers and managers who care
Thank You
"An example is about the B-82. A Planner told me 'We Know that the B-82 is a disaster. But we can never go back to the old B-5 and B-50 routes. We can not admit that we made a mistake'"
Please name said planner. I would like to talk to him or her.
As to using midday ridership as a barometer of potential midday ridership, since we're talking about the same pool of riders here for the most part (shoppers), what's wrong with it?
As to using surveys, I once saw a "Save the X29" petition. It had more signatories on it than there were riders of the line. Some people will sign anything.
David
David,
I can not mention the person's name for one reason. I do not know it.
But the person told me that they were a planner for the TA.
I met the person in Manhattan. Please do not ask me to identify the person because i do not wish to cause the person problem.
If you told me something in confidence would you wish to be identified if some one else finds out
Also to use midday riders for weekend ridership trends. How about this
I do not use the bus middays but i use it on weekends since i do not own a car
So how can you anticipate my weekend riding pattern now?
About your statement on the save the x-29 I agree with you 100%
BTW- When i was talking about the people who work for the Department of Buses and do an outstanding job you are part of that group even though we disagree on some issues
Thank You
I understand and accept "Barry"'s reason's for not identifying the person even if he knew the person's name. However, it should be said that many people perform planning functions for NYCT and not all of them work for Operations Planning (some of those functions WERE consolidated within O.P. recently, so there's not as much of that as there once was).
I think we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm not saying that the same, exact people would ride on weekends as on weekday middays. I'm saying that the same TYPE of ridership is present during both daytypes -- it's discretionary ridership. Midday ridership is indeed a valid barometer of projected weekend ridership. If "Barry" or anyone else has a better suggestion (other than ridership surveys, for a reason I've already outlined), I'm certainly willing to read it.
David
David,
When i worked for the TA we gave passengers survey forms to fill out and i know that the LIRR does the same.
I believe by going to the public will give the TA the best guide in the determination of service to be used.
The best way is to have people ride the buses and talk to them. It is still the best way to plan routes.
To sit in an office and determine service based on ridership counts is not a good guideline to determine what service should be.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
I agree whole-heartedly with you on that.It's about time they take a different approach to how they make service changes because it's way past ridiculous already and I know without even talking to people about it or hearing someone complaining about it,that many neighborhoods are yearning for bus service near them or they're demanding for better service but thier cries are going in one ear and out the other of these pathetic Operation Planners and they don't seem to give a damn about it either.
I agree that origin-destination surveys are useful in determining where routes should run, but the best way to determine whether an existing service would be used on weekends is to look at how it does on weekday middays.
The question is, "where do you need to go," rather than, "if we ran service on Saturday would you ride it?" My experience (as I related before with my X29 story) is that many more people will SAY they'll ride than will actually ride.
David
[The question is, "where do you need to go," rather than, "if we ran service on Saturday would you ride it?" My experience (as I related before with my X29 story) is that many more people will SAY they'll ride than will actually ride.]
Believe it or not, there has actually been research into comparing what people tell surveyors with what they really do. It's interesting stuff.
For example, in the planning process for Miami-Dade's MetroRail, several hundred people along the route were asked if they would use the service. After the line opened, the people who had given definitive answers (yes/no/maybe) were interviewed again about their travel patterns. The results were as follows:
- 100% of the NO respondents DID NOT use MetroRail (duh!);
- 100% of the MAYBE respondents DID NOT use MetroRail (duh!);
- 80% of the YES respondents DID NOT use MetroRail;
In other words, only 20% of the YES respondents (already a relatively small number) actually used MetroRail, or at least claimed to. It seems that some people will say what they think you want to hear rather than the truth.
Getting back to the issue of expanding weekday-only bus service to weekends: people might NOT actually intend to ride on weekends, but they'll say they DO intend to ride because they want the bus there anyway - JUST IN CASE the car breaks down or they otherwise feel like riding at some point in the future. The same result is likely to come out of surveys on the B51, Q74, M30, and any other weekday-only route.
>"The question is, "where do you need to go," rather than, "if we ran service on Saturday would you ride it?" My experience (as I related before with my X29 story) is that many more people will SAY they'll ride than will actually ride."<
I agree with you on that, people do that b/c they want to feel "superior". Sometimes, changing things turn out to be a flop but the X29 petition must of worked b/c I see a lot more people riding it than lets say 5 or 6 years ago (maybe the growing attraction on the X29 started from newer RTS softseaters and now the MCI's expanded on that)
Riding on the X29 has gone up, to be sure, along with almost every other bus route. A little thing called the MetroCard has had much to do with it, along with the introduction of over-the-road coaches.
The X29 petition was in 1991, long before either of these things happened.
David
David,
Since the service cutbacks in the mid 90's which eliminated weekend service on the M-30(Saturdays),Q-26,Q-42(weekends),Q-74 and Q-75(Saturdays) and the S-66(weekends) what steps were taken to determine that weekend service should be restored.
Off peak ridership due to the Metro Cards has greatly increased and yet not one step was taken by the Transit Authority to restore any weekend service that was cut due to economic reasons.
As a matter of fact with the exception of the B-3 to E.74th Street and the weekend service on the Q-20 due to the restructing of the line with Q-44 not one service cut was ever restored.
With the greatly increased weekend amd off peak ridership boon becaue of Metro Card by not restoring these cuts most likely caused the Transit Authority thousands of dollars in lost fares
Can you be kind enough to explain why nothing was ever done
Thank You
[With the greatly increased weekend amd off peak ridership boon becaue (sic) of Metro Card by not restoring these cuts most likely caused the Transit Authority thousands of dollars in lost fares.]
...and definitely saved Transit even more thousands of dollars in operating costs....
1. Since (as David and I have said before) people tend to say what they think the questioner wants to hear, the ONLY way to know how many people will really ride is to just run the service and see what happens. That's a very expensive way to play "what-if" games.
2. Transit loses money on every passenger carried. Even very busy routes like the B41 and M15 don't fully recover their operating costs - unless lots of costs are simply ignored.
I agree, not every bus route has the same rideship on middays and weekends(B41, B44, B46). To David, these are just some routes that has as much ridership on weekdays as weekends so judging service on middays to pre-determine/predict weekend service isn't necessarily the solution. I agree that they should take time TO TALK to the people sometimes as well as determining/projecting ridership. Agree/disagree.
Oh, goodie. Three routes out of over two hundred have different ridership numbers weekday middays vs. weekends. And that's according to "flatbush41," not according to ACTUAL RIDERSHIP COUNTS.
As I've said and as "Gotham Bus Co." has said, talking to people does just so much good. Some people will say what they think the survey-taker wants to hear.
David
David, the Bx5(and sometimes Bx12) is another example of a route that has more ridership on weekends than middays(at least in the summer)
The Bx29 has long headways, yet many people travel to Bay Plaza and Co Op City, they usually have to pack into a Bx12, because the Bx29 hardly shows up
How are people supposed to shop on middays when they usually are in school or work?
Then there is the Bx20, a bus which doesn't run on Sundays, which is unusual for the Bronx buses, but a victim of the 1995 budget cuts.
And I say again why do routes that have the potential to be successful in ridership, community/bussiness development and profits(MTA) have bad headaways?
I used those routes as a example of bus routes that you MAY NOT make a assumption that midday ridership will be almost the same as weekends.
I was NEVER trying to say that ridership would be almost the same on weekends as it is on weekday middays. What I'm trying to say is that if there is next to no riding on weekday middays, that's a pretty good indication that running weekend service would be a mistake from an economic point of view.
I checked with one of the head planners today. I asked specifically about the B51 because that was the route we were talking about in this thread, but what he told me applies anywhere in the system:
1. He confirmed that weekday midday ridership is indeed an indicator as to whether weekend service would be worth running.
2. He also told me that other factors are considered. Among them are whether there is a major traffic generator (such as a shopping mall) on the route (he used the relatively recent introduction of B78 Sunday service -- a big success and now incorporated in the B47 schedule -- as an example). Another is the nature of the line's weekday ridership (does the line exist primarily to get people to/from work?).
3. Another criterion he listed is the availability of alternate, possibly, better means of traveling along the route. In the case of the B51 route, the subway provides pretty much the same trip, the subway's faster, and there are accessible stations at the Brooklyn (Borough Hall -- northbound anyway) and Manhattan (Brooklyn Bridge and Canal Street) ends.
4. He further stated that he would have liked to propose instituting weekend service on route B51. Prior to the destruction of the World Trade Center, lower Manhattan was a hub of activity on the weekends. It isn't right now. Given that the route has virtually no midday ridership and there's not much in the way of major traffic generators on the weekends (yeah, there's Chinatown, but it's accessible by subway) and given NYCT's precarious fiscal position right now, there's just no point in running weekend B51 service at this time.
With that, I believe the equine is now deceased and we can discontinue its beatings.
David
I have a question, I notice bus service that has low ridership has bad schedules - meaning that they are 30 min - 1hr waits. That sometimes lead riders (like myself) to take alternative routes to get my destination. For exampe though I am beating it to death now, I prefer using the B 23 instead of the B 8 or B 35 for crosstown service along the Boro Park/Flatbush area because to me it is faster and covienient, but I hate taking it because it is not dependable base on its schedule ( I believe it is every 30 min during middays) I can tell people on Corteleyou Rd would love to use the B 23 but service is horrible and with some improvements (like extending to New York Av) would help riders become more attracted to it. I know there is more in the "behind scenes" of things but a typical bus rider who don't know too much about B/O and schedule planning, would always ask why is not there more service. My question which comes from an earlier post from a fellow bustalker is why experiment one bus on a weekday (this bus would come from a route for ex B 35) and announce it to the public and see weather it can be succewssful? For example, take two buses one from the B 35 and see if 15 min service is good at all times of the day and use this same bus and a B 23 bus currently on that route and extended it to New York Av and see how poeple respond to that for at least 3 months. The idea of bus servce is two sided 1) porvide riders service from two points in town and two to make $$. People take gambles with stock market, why MTA can not on busses?
The people who are gambling with their money are gambling with their own money, not the public's -- there's a difference. MTA and its subsidiaries have a responsibility to operate as efficiently as they can. While it is possible that increasing service on a given line (such as the B23) will result in more riding, it is doubtful that anywhere near enough additional riding would be generated to make the added service worth providing -- and the line whose service would be reduced to pay for it under this scenario (in this case the B35) probably needs every trip it has, and possibly more than it has, and could not stand to lose any service at all.
As for the B23 route, yes, there isn't much service (30 minute headway for much of the day), but I'll wager that the buses come reasonably on time and are reasonably uncrowded when they do come.
David
Well you are a good gambler (laughs).I agree with you at least in AM/ PM RUSH for the B 23 that is. But back to the subject, I would like to know in your opinion, what would you suggest for a routes like in this senerio, the B 23, to improve ridership instead of it becoming lame duck route. the B 23 could be useful as I have mention but if I can not add another bus to this route what can I do improve it (I know I am repeating myself!!)
B 49 Limited
Frankly, I think the B23 is a lost cause. It's never been a heavy hitter, even back in the trolley coach days.
David
David,
I have a proposed extenstion on the B-23 which may increase ridership.
Extend the line from Flatbush Ave to Beverly Rd/Nostrand Ave Station as follows
From Corteylou Rd/Ocean Ave via Corteylou Road,Flatbush Ave(left),Beverly Road(right),New York Ave(left),Tilden Ave(left),Nostrand Ave(left),Beverly Road(right) and stand
Return via Beverly Road,Flatbush Ave(left),Corteylou Road(right) and current route
Traffic Geneartors include the Sears Department store at Beverly Road and Bedford Avenue,
Connections to the B-49 bus at Bedford Ave towards Kingsboro College and Rodgers Ave(towards Fulton-Franklin) and to the B-44 bus at Nostrand Ave (towards Knapp Street) and New York Ave(towards Williamsburg Bridge Plaza)
Connections to the Beverly Road #2/#5 subway stop at Nostrand Ave.
This will give an alternative to passengers who use the Brighton Line subway trains as the #2 and # 5 routes serve lower Manhattan with a one seat subway ride. Brighton Line passengers who wish to go to Lower Manhattan now must change trains to the M or R at De Kalb Ave or the #2/#3/#4/#5 lines at Atlantic Ave
This proposed extenstion will allow access to Holy Cross Cemetary which is on New York Ave and will allow workers and visitors to access the cemetary via bus instead of walking from the subway.
In addition the TA should have stops on the B-41 Limited and if the line is extended to the B-44 Limited
I believe that only one additional bus or driver will be needed at certin times to implement this change and at times no additional bus will be required because the increase can be covered by reducing the layover time which now takes place at Flatbush Avenue
Please advise
Thank You
Barry it is good thing you did mention about Corteleyou/Beverley Roads not being a limited bus stop on the B 41. That is also nther down factor. As for the B 23, what you mention, myself , and other bustalkers, have mentioned that idea for quite awhile. Too add on to what you are saying, the B 23 extension would create an alternative for passengers riding on the B 8 or B 35 in the Midwood/Kensington/Flatbush/East Flatbush areas. Which also give customers an alternative to already crowded buses (B35) and traffic along Church Av. I also want to make a correction to your post Barry, Holy Cross Cementary is located on Brooklyn Av not New York Av.
I keep on mentioning the B 23 alot because I ride this route alot to school years ago and I still ride it today, and I look at it and in my opinion it seem that it is put there for failure. If money is an important issue here then why (the MTA) should be wasted on a lame duck route. There are so many like these all accross the City and the MTA, in my opinion, are not doing anything to improve it. I am not a MTA worker, no I don't know an
I believe the enterance to the cemetary is off New York Avenue. I recall Brooklyn Aveune being a dead end street because of the cemetary.
I use to work in the area
I may be wrong though
Thank You
My belated Grandmother and I used to live on New York Av that is how know. The entrance is really on Tilden and Brooklyn Avs
Barry it is good thing you did mention about Corteleyou/Beverley Roads not being a limited bus stop on the B 41. That is also nther down factor. As for the B 23, what you mention, myself , and other bustalkers, have mentioned that idea for quite awhile. Too add on to what you are saying, the B 23 extension would create an alternative for passengers riding on the B 8 or B 35 in the Midwood/Kensington/Flatbush/East Flatbush areas. Which also give customers an alternative to already crowded buses (B35) and traffic along Church Av. I also want to make a correction to your post Barry, Holy Cross Cementary is located on Brooklyn Av not New York Av.
I keep on mentioning the B 23 alot because I ride this route alot to school years ago and I still ride it today, and I look at it and in my opinion it seem that it is put there for failure. If money is an important issue here then why (the MTA) should be wasted on a lame duck route. There are so many like these all accross the City and the MTA, in my opinion, are not doing anything to improve it. I am not a MTA worker, no I don't know any body that works there, but as a rider, I try to find the best route to my destination. If I look at as a public investment. Routes like the B 23, would be on my top priority compared to consolidation routes like B 40 & B78 (which I have nothing against). Like a bussiness, the company (MTA) needs to attrack its customers (riders), to sell its product (bus routes). If I don't like the service on these routes then why am I going to ride them. Unfortunatly in reality we are force to ride these routes because we don't have neccessary means (or finances) for altenatives (ex a car). David these are things I believe that needs to be bring up. What can "we" do to improve such routes? It has mention that the Bx 29 or B 13, these routes are route a couple years ago would not be considered of more service are now in desperate need of busses. these routes have changed because the times are changing. As this decade passes by some routes are going to become useless, ex B 18 and there is undertanding for that bussiness come and go. What was once a big industrial work area is now just a small bussiness area. But you get my point, the MTA needs to look at not just the mall changes but look at it in a big picture. Using the B 13 and B 18, the only adjustment was made was redirecting the route via Bushwick Ave in Willamburg, which was agood idea since that area is on the rise right now. However the MTA has not responded to Gateway correctly. If you re not going to extend the B 14 yet, then why not improve B 13 service? The B 13 it the test route for Gateway Mall area. We all know by now about the bus on the porperty issues, but you can still use the roads that belongs to the City and place bus stops opposit to the property? Shoppers and Workers are now depending on the B 13 service but to only see tht it is still falling short. Cab drivers are the winners here I know people who work their and they prefer cab rathre than the B 13 (if they have the money or pay for a cab) because it is dependable and closer. And this mall is not still 100% yet and it does not take a genius to observe what's going on. It is sad (I am sorry ot say this) but if Command Bus Company and NYDOT made an agreement and had the busses, this is something they might have tken advantage of (correct me if I am wrong)! This is what the MTA should be looking at. Look at the your current routes (and improve service) before consolidating or eliminating them.
"Barry" brought up a neat idea (B23); I'll pass it along to the planners if I have time and see what they have to say.
As for Gateway Plaza, NYCT has nothing to do with the fact that there's no bus service at the mall. The mall management won't allow the buses onto the property -- which is typical mall management mentality (go back into the BusTalk archives for many, many posts on this). NYCT is working with mall management to move the B13 closer to the mall, but there is nothing firm yet.
David
ALL "Bustalkers" would like to know if it works. Keep us inform on the B 23. But don't give Barry all the credit, see all other post on the B 23 situation.
Please don't give me any credit if this able to be done.
If David can pull it off he will deserve the credit
and if he can't at least he gets credit for trying
Thats my opinion
Thank You
Thanks, but 'tain't happening.
I talked to one of the head planners about the B23 today. While he'd like to extend route B23 either way (or both ways) he just doesn't see enough additional passengers being generated for the extension to pay for itself. Some? Yes. Enough? No. Right now, NYCT needs every penny it can get and just can't afford to, as they say in advertising, "throw it against the wall and see what sticks."
David
At least you try....
How are they projecting this one by? I see advantages in this expansion. If they are thinking [B23]make money quick in a week thing, then I understand why the idea will be trash.
Don't they know there is rise in riders in the East Flatbush Area?
I can see with some advertising to the public riders using this route as an alternative to the B 8 & B 35, it only needed time.
Oh well
So we go back to square one!!
So my question is if the MTA needs money, what do you do with "existing" routes that are "sorry" (excuse my term) and turn them to "profitable" routes?
If you can't extend the route this my proposals
1)Like how they are promoting the V train, promote the B 23 the same way.. explain the conviences of using the B 23
2)Have studies or survey done on both sections of the B 23 (Corteleyou Rd and 16 Av). This should also include weekend service also. this will help determine where B 23 riders are generated and if possible what alternatives could be done to replace this route, if needed. (Ex if MTA took over privates...B 103 (Command) can replace service along Corteleyou Rd and it will make all former B 23 stops bet Flatbush and CI Av. The B 67 can replace the B23 along 16 Av) or find out if rerouting the route (most likely 16 Av) can help improve the route.
3) If that fails, well let me not go there. I am just glad it has not been on the discontinue list all these years.
But David thanks..
Maybe I need to make this my personal project and call it "Rescue the B 23" campaign. (laughs)
[If they are thinking [B23] make money quick in a week thing, then I understand why the idea will be trash.]
The issue isn't "making money" (i.e. turning a profit) - it's whether the extension will generate enough new fares to even recover the additional cost.
BTW: A rider who simply diverts from another route would have paid a fare anyway, and thus DOESN'T count as new.
Well, it is very hard to promote ONE local bus route, especially a route like the B23. I don't think it will be discontinued but if the budget cuts go through, it may be reduced to a weekday only bus or end at 9pm daily instead of 11:15pm.
David,
When was the last time surveys were taken of the area especially east of Flatbush Avenue.
The area has changed in the past few years and you may be surprised to see a sufficent ridership may already be there if they know that the route can be extended.
Their must be some method to see if residents would use the bus
Thank You
Barry,
You said it better than me. May you are more clear at bringing out my point. I agree that if extension along Beverley Rd was to occur, I would guarentee you their will be customers. I may even be pushing it but if it was to somehow (still working the details)extend to Kings Couny Hospital, it would be twice the benifit. Yes Barry East Flatbush has increased in growth and in ridership. The benifits of having the B 23 along Beverley Road creates a third crosstown route along East Flatbush. Which gives riders an alternative option to get to Q (local), 2 and 5 trains, and the bus transfers already mention. An easier way to get along Flatbush Av bussiness area (ex Sears and definately OLD NAVY, Staples). Beverley road residents would support the idea,because having to walk to Flatbush Avenue from as far nostrand (where alot usually walk from)is not fun for some people. It can work it just needs to be put out to the public and descent scheduling (15 min can work during middays) will help bring riders along. There is a big difference in residential need of service along corteleyou Rd (West of flatbush Av) vs. Beverley Rd (east of Flatbush AV)
What kind of "surveys" are we talking about? Are we talking about ridership counts, or are we talking about "let's ask the customers whether they'd ride something if we provided it"?
It is highly likely, as "Gotham Bus Co." indicated, that any riders generated on an extended B23 would merely be pulled off existing services and not be new customers. It is also highly likely that not enough customers, new or old, would be served to make the extension pay for itself. In this tight fiscal environment, NYCT just can't afford to try it.
David
Myself and other bustalkers did some posts a while back on the B23 and its needs for a extension[see the archives].
My plan was to extend the 23 south via 16 Av to 86 St.
On the east, I said I would extend it east via Beverley or Clarendon Rd to at least New York Av[I said Utica Av & Av D to connect to the B8] to make new connections to the B49, B44 and the 2/5 train.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
My comment at the time was that an extension to 86th Street would be throwing good money after bad. My opinion hasn't changed. I'll be talking to the planners about the B23 as time permits.
David
The only time the B23 gets crowded is when school kids from Ditmas JHS go to/from school. You are right about that, it is on time 95% of the time & has few passengers. IMO, the bad headways and current terminals contribute to the low ridership. The 23 needs a extension to make it more attrctive b/c its crying for help.
AMEN!!!
You know what? I am getting sick and tired of the OP bashing on this board. If I wanted to get into bus DRIVER bashing, I would be typing into the middle of next week!
I suppose there wouldn't be so much OP bashing from those who actually wait for these absurdly scheduled buses, or from us, the operators who attempt to follow them in the real world if OP didn't have their hands tied by their management, and actually implemented schedules that can be maintained safely, and according to the rulebook and NYS VTL (note: buses that are governed at 40Mph and below cannot maintain a schedule if those buses utilize the highway/parkway system via run-on or deadhead by virtue of the formula that dictates necessary time to run-on or deadhead using the maximum speed limit which is 50Mph, yet nobody factors in that the TA has began governing buses down to 40Mph [some around 32!!]). But someone has to take responsibility for schedules that cannot be maintained, and that's OP.
But if you'd care to bash BO's, please feel free. I'm sure it's nothing I haven't already heard before.
I am not a planner, but like David, I interact with them on a regular basis. Are they perfect? Hell no, but point me in the direction of someone who is. Are all their decisions the right ones? No way. No one mentions any of the better service changes in recent years. All you hear about are the B82, the F-Shuttle mess (and yes it is a mess), the V train (another questionable move), and the Manhattan Bridge service. I guess all of this goes overshadows the highly-successful M60, the equally successful Q46 to LIJ Hospital, and the great scheduling/planning that was done on the Q4420 (despite too having too many LTD stops).
That might be the problem. You're not a planner, but you interact with them. Maybe the planners should be interacting with the drivers to resolve the multitude of scheduling faults in an attempt to rectify them from opinions and suggestions from those who actually run them. As far as perfection is concerned, management expects perfection from BO's. Why shouldn't we expect the same?
At any rate, I can't comment on the other lines you mention, but to deem the Q-46 as "highly successful" is reaching. I wouldn't exactly call a schedule that gives 12 minutes of deadhead time from Springfield Blvd to Kew Gardens via the GCP during bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic "highly successfully" scheduling. No. I would call that sucking blood from the stone that is the BO who attempts to make that time. With buses that are governed to 36Mph to boot.
"Since there is no B and D train over the manhattan bridge..."
The W and Q trains run on the Manhattan Bridge at all times.
The Q runs on the bridge all times,The W weekdays only
WRONG! The W runs via Montague St tunnel on the weekends. They actually still have that Canal St-Dekalb Av shuttle bus?!
I stand corrected!
After considerable research and collaboration with some local bus nuts, I've finally gotten the Maryland MTA Roster up to date. I've revised the format to go by series, and it now shows all of the current wrap ads in service as well.
Check it out at it's new Location!
I have a question about 9601-9620 NABI 436. Do they really have Voith Transmission? Also, as far as I know, Voith doesn't have a 5 speed tranny...., and I believe M11 engines are rated at 280hp....
Anyway, thanks for the roster.
Please correct me if necessary,
Stephen
Does anyone know if copies of past editions of the NYC Bus Insider's Guide are available? I have the 2000 version, and I understand that this was the last one produced. I would be interested in obtaining another copy of the 2000 guide or older guides if possible.
Appreciate any help - thanks!
Jim D.
i have 1996-2000 insiders guide of buses. $10 and the item is yours. email me for shipping instructions.
If any of you bus talkers are familiar with the Albany area, I need to travel from the Holiday Inn on Wolf Road near the Airport into the downtown Empire State mall area. Is it is easy to take a CDTA bus or would I be better off driving? And what is the CDTA fare? Thanks.
you can take the CDTA Shuttle bus,on Wolf Road. I think it comes into the Holiday Inn... Take it to Colonie Center,transfer to any Downtown bus,the 1, 2 or 55. The 1 takes a more direct routing down Central ave,while the 2 travels somewhat out of the way AND THE 55 doesn't come directly into the Mall during the day while the 1 is running,but you can catch it at the Park and Ride LOT near SEAR'S. HOPE this helps. And you would be better off driving.. to get there,but downtown Albany parking is terrible durring the day...so take the busand save the headache for another day.
Thanks, love9400. Would I be better off driving and parking at Colonie Center, then picking up the #1. I checked the #1 schedule online and it seemed to run at least every 20 mins. during daytime.
yeah you could do that.I would.and sorry for taking so long to answer you.... Ive been really busy at work.....
Last Friday's episode starts with a driver standing alongside an MCI at Kennedy airport apologizing for his late arrival and says we'll be loaded and moving shortly. He opens the rear luggage hatch door and a body of a young boy is inside.
The bus was rented from TRANS-BRIDGE LINES, because you could see the livery if you looked closely. Later in the episode, Detectives Benson and Stabler visit the bus yard to talk the dispatcher and you see several TBL MCI's.
I would like to apologize to Joe and QTRAINDASH7 for my behavior. It appears that I was wrong about my findings. The last thing I want to do is to get into a fight with someone who works in the MTA system and I want a job in that same system. I still do see trains running during the day on the Montauk Branch....both weekdyas and weekends because Southampton College is right next to the tracks. I mean buildings shake as the trains go by. However, I can always admit that I was wrong about my findings and I do apologize. Also, in one of my posts, I made a remark about QTRAINDASH7, "I'm no QTRAINDASH7...don't even compare me to him!" That was uncalled for and my apologize to you QTRAINDASH7. I hope you guys can forgive me. Now, let's get back to those buses...LOL!
Thank You
If you could bring back one bus model of NYC buses or old RTS models to run on NYC streets again, what would you bring back(please pick one model).
I wolud bring back the GM New looks but in the Blitz form because I loved those buses; the engine, the back window, the room and it was a very attractive design but it would be modified with a wheelchair lift, A/C and I would find a way to reduce all the shaking..
Whatever model you pick, what would you guys do to improve it from the past?
Holla back.
I agree. The new look, or FISHBOWL was the best. But can I get a little fussy? I prefer the 96" wide model over the 102" one. And it would have to have a W/C lift (to comply with today's ADA laws)and I'd like it at the front door. Bug then it would have to be 102" wide with the W/C lift. Oh well. - And modernize the driver seat - perhaps install a RECARO model. What do you think about a 45 foot long new look?
Wow...a 45-footer would be AWESOME! Or even an articulated version? Canada was running a lot of the GM Classic artics with the same basic side and rear Fishbowl styling, but I would scratch the "modern" rectangular light front end for the original design.
-F.
I always loved the Grummans, but I've got to say the 9000-series Flxible New Looks. And I would LOVE to see a few of them with Batwings lit up at night...maybe even digital Bus-O-Ramas and destination signs on some for a rolling Times Square effect? And a few of those in the 1960s style green metalflake and silver paint scheme for variety. Oh yes, and make a few into artics for a truly "flexible" bus. Now THAT would be a cool fleet for NYC!
-F.
Hey Flx, you read my mind. I was going to say something about an updated Busorama, maybe something similar to those newer digital roof ads found on some of the NYC taxis, though the original style would be just fine with me.
OOH....digital ads?!? Never seen one on a cab...tell me more about them!
-F.
The digital taxi roof ads are on only a select few cabs. I assume they are preprogrammed and they are displayed on a screen. Some of the ads appear to be moving. I myself haven't seen them that many times so maybe someone else can elaborate more.
Wow, what a neat ad. I'd like to see those hit buses; anything is possible in NYC!
-F.
I would bring back the 1977 9000 series Flxibles with a wheel chair lift in the front going through the Wide Front Doors while flashing the destination through the orange lit signs.
BIG AL
Now THAT would be awesome. Let's hear it for the 9000s!
-F.
First choice: yours.
Second choice: 1982 RTS.
Third choice: BIG AL's.
GM old look, in the two tone green with updated yellow LED destination signs, MaBSTOA (or NYCTA) written across the top sides of the bus, possibley a Blitz like A/C unit mounted on top of the bus about the middle. W/C lift at the rear door position and of course a recaro seat for the B/O.
I would probably place the w/c in the front, bring back the blue/red rollsigns[for a little nostalgia]. A 45 footer wouldn't be so bad but I'd rather keep it at 40'. It would have the two tone blue "M" logo NEW YORK CITY SURFACE stickers and the numbers prior to the arial font in 1994 and the same color scheme before they were retired.
I'd bring back the Grumman Flxible 870. I'd replace their DD 6V-71N engines with DD S50 and/or Cummins ISC with Voith or ZF tranny and all would have W/C lifts.
Second choice would be the GMC T6H-5309A/10A. I'd replace their DD 6V-71N/2-speed with the 6V-92TA/Allison 3-speed.
Third choice would be the 1977 Flxible 53102-6-1/8-1 (9000-9309). On these... I'd give them all DD 8V-71N or DD S50.
On all of these - I'd give them a Balios sign and W/C lifts.
Wayne
I aggree with everything but the Grumman repower. Series 50? Yuck! I'd either leave it as-is or go with a Cummins ISL/Voith combo.
-F.
The Mack C-49 with no changes whatsoever.
Please e-mail me regarding the NABI Low Floor; you may contact me at flxible169@yahoo.com. Thanks!
-Fred
Oh, Fred, I actually got the bus from Caine824. Thanks, though, I will contact you anyway about the one you had in store for me...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Carlton, either way is fine; let me know if you want one painted. Thanks!
-Fred
Where the heck has everyone's favorite questioner been lately?
Let me guess. Any info would be appreciated?
I'd rather not have any information about his whereabouts and appreciate the fact he hasn't been around lately.
I SHOULD have wrote:
Any body see Busfan lately.
If Busfan moves from his house to a new house ten years from now, where will it be, and will it have three windows or four?
Any info would be appreciated.
Why do you care? Just be happy that it isn't posting anymore.
Why even bother mentioning him? Do you want to get him interested in bothering the heck out of everybody on this board again? Let sleepng dogs lie.
BIG AL
he's been on my killfile for months now
I also posted this to subtalk since this answer also applies to buses.
A few weeks ago I wanted to ride the subway from New Carrollton, MD to Georgetown (Wash, DC). The public timetable lists a train leaving at 8:38 p.m. I got to the station at 8:33 and the train pulled out 5 minutes early.
I wrote to customer service and got the incredibly stupid answer that timetables are merely advisory. Here's the exchange of messages.
(I'm also going to post this to bustalk since this answer also applies to buses.)
Michael
Dear Mr.
Thank you for your e-mail. The trains are not operated on a strict
timetable. Operators and customers use the timetable as a guide.
Again, as the Metrorail timetable states: "Times listed in this
timetable are approximate,..." The trains do not offer any exact arrival or departure times and the timetables are merely intended as a guide.
Sincerely,
Bob
Consumer Representative
Case Number: 15509
Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Dear Mr.
I want to be sure what you're telling me. Are you saying the DEPARTURE
times from ORIGIN stations don't match the DEPARTURE times that are
given to operators? Are you saying operators are given one set of departure times and the public is given a DIFFERENT set of departure times? If what you say is true, then your Ride Guide is useless because it doesn't have the correct times. How can I rely on the ride guide to catch a particular train from an ORIGIN station?
CSVC needs to think some more about its position on timetables.
Bus Simulator Features:
- Realistic, highly detailed bus models
- Licensing from major brands including GMDD/GMC, Grumman/Flxible, MCI, NABI/Ikarus, Neoplan, NewFlyer, NovaBUS, Orion, Prevost, VanHool.
- Three-dimensional dashboards, fareboxes, destination sign control panels, props, passengers, etc.
- Passengers with different emotions and actions (ie. drunk, extra talkitive, disruptive, etc.)
- Real world recreation of routes of select transit agency routes and surrounding service areas.
USER CONTROLLED FEATURES (before gameplay):
- Selection of mylar (roller sign), flipdots, or LED destination signs for bus.
- Programmable destination signs. Emoticons and blinking(flipdots and LED only), scrolling (LED only) features.
- User is allowed to choose premade transit agency paint schemes and/or create paint schemes.
- Choice of engine, transmission, seating (layout, seat type), wheels, steering wheel, window types, etc.
- Realistic garage pullouts, parking, bus wash, and inspection.
- Available automated voice annunciation on each stop
USER CONTROLLED FEATURES (during gameplay):
- Driving
- Transmission (auto - P,R,N,D | manual - P, 1, 2, 3, 4, N)
- Turn signals
- Destination sign
- Air/electronically operated doors when picking up/dropping off passengers
- Exterior lighting
- Interior lighting
- Climate systems
- Wheelchair ramps/kneeling (if applicable) - all NewFlyer models, Orion VI, Orion VII.
- Communication with dispatcher
- Communication with boarding passengers, either automated or voice annunciated (ie. not enough fare, no smoking, proceed to the rear of the bus, etc.)
- "Instant Drive" gameplay mode for driving immediately. Here the user is allowed to choose a bus, destination sign type, and a route to drive.
- "Long Distance Endurance" gameplay mode for charter trips. Charter bus models and suburban transit bus models ONLY are used.
- Scheduled routes for "Career Mode". Also in "Career Mode", available option for time to gradually increase by years, and the user is allowed to choose a bus accordingly. User can also choose time era.
- "Free Drive" gameplay mode for driving however you want to. This mode will be mainly used for getting used to buses and how a passenger will react in different situations. Here the user is allowed to choose a bus, destination sign type, and a route to drive.
Included in the early time era:
Flyer D800 (transit bus model)
Flyer D900 (transit bus model)
GM Old Look (transit bus model)
GM New Look (Fishbowl)
Grumman/Flxible Metro Series (transit bus model)
Included in the middle time era:
GMC RTS Bus
GMC Classic
GMC Classic (articulated model)
Grumman/Flxible Metro Series (transit bus model)
MCI A-Series (charter bus model)
MCI C-Series (charter bus model)
MCI D-Series (charter bus model)
Neoplan AN440 (transit bus model)
Orion I (transit bus model) - 30 foot and 40 foot model
Orion II (transit bus model)
Orion/Ikarus III (articulated model)
Orion V (transit bus model) - 30 foot and 40 foot model
Prevost H3-41 (charter bus model)
Prevost H3-45 (charter bus model)
Prevost LeMirage XL (charter bus model)
Vanhool T480 Series (charter bus model)
Included in the current time era:
MCI A-Series (charter bus model)
MCI C-Series (charter bus model)
MCI D-Series (charter bus model)
MCI E-Series (charter bus model)
MCI F-Series (charter bus model)
MCI G-Series (charter bus model)
MCI J-Series (charter bus model)
NABI 416 (transit bus model)
NABI 436 (articulated model)
NABI 40LFW (transit bus model)
NABI 60LFW (articulated model)
NABI 45 Foot CompoBus (transit bus model)
Neoplan AN440 (transit bus model)
Neoplan AN460 (articulated model)
NewFlyer D30LF (transit bus model)
NewFlyer D40LF (transit bus model)
NewFlyer D60LF (articulated model)
NovaBUS LFS (transit bus model)
Orion I (transit bus model) - 30 foot and 40 foot model
Orion II (transit bus model)
Orion/Ikarus III (articulated model)
Orion IV (transit bus model)
Orion V (transit bus model) - 30 foot and 40 foot model
Orion VI (transit bus model)
Orion VII (transit bus model) - 30 foot and 40 foot model
Prevost H3-41 (charter bus model)
Prevost H3-45 (charter bus model)
Prevost H5-60 (articulated model)
Prevost LeMirage XL (charter bus model)
VanHool A330 (transit bus model)
VanHool A360 (articulated model)
VanHool C2000 Series (charter bus model)
VanHool T2100 Series (charter bus model)
Where can we find this wonderful simulator? I've been searching for about 3 months last year for a bus simulator. But wait, is it even real???
Judging from the detail of that simulator, I think it would probably be easier to just get a real license. You can get paid for doing the same thing.
Yes...where is this available?
This "simulator isnt real. It's just a suggested list if there is to be a bus simulator to be made. My friend and I figured that if Airplanes and Trains get their own simulators, why not busses? However, we will send this list and idea to microsoft, electronic arts, and any other big companies that we think might be interesting in it. Any additions and/or improvements to the list will be greatly appreciated and your name will be mentioned.
NYCT has a bus simulator as well as a train simulator. I believe NJT has a bus simulator as well.
David
David, tell me more about those and how they work.
-F.
I think I'll tell everybody :-)
The Train Operator simulator consists of a cab mockup with a video display and an actual controller/brake handle (there's one for separate controller and brake handle, and one for the Cineston type). The video display shows actual footage (on laserdisc!) of a given subway line. Unfortunately, there's no vibration or anything, so one can't get a true "feel" for operating, but it's an interesting experience nevertheless.
I haven't observed the Bus Operator simulator in action, but I understand it's similar to the Train Operator simulator in what it does. From the pictures I've seen, the screen is bigger on the Bus Operator simulator, and it uses computer-generated images rather than video footage.
David
The driver's position is a copy of some generic bus. It's not exactly like any brand we have.
The screens are in front of, and on both sides of, the "driver".
In the next room, about 20x20 feet, is a two-block section of a fake city, with a small bus (basically a square withr olling wheels) attached to the unit with a boom. There are three tiny cameras mounted on this little bus, and movement of the bus is controlled by whatever the "driver" in the next room does.
The accelerator does not feel real. The brakes do not feel real. The steering does not feel real. And pull or push on the parking brake, and you'd think the whole simulated dashboard is going to break (as in...shatter, not as in stop.)
Our agency bought the thing about for or five years ago, and they said at the time only one other agency had it (in the NYCity area, so it could have been either NYCTA or NJT...) But our agency has also given up on using it in favor of training new drivers on a closed course on some property they bought just for training new drivers, sot hey could feel a REAL bus.
Sounds pretty cruddy. I'd just as soon drive the real thing around a training course of some sort.
-F.
We have the same simulator system where I work. It's a piece of crap. You drive in a simulated city that is TWO square blocks. And having tried the thing out, all it does is make you dizzy. It is NOTHING like driving a real bus like i've been doing for 29 years now.
Microsoft Flight Simulator and Microsoft Train Simulator DO actually make the user feel like they are flying or driving a train -- and this has been said by MANY pilots and engineers.
Sounds great; send it on in. As long as RTSes, Flxible Metros, and current buses (i.e. NABI, Gillig, New Flyer, etc.) are in there, it all sounds like a plan to me!
-F.
In Japan, there's a video game where you can drive a bus through a realistic recreation of Tokyo, and you must adhere to the scrict bus transit rules.
Is that game made by Taito, by any chance? They have a whole series of train simulator games, as well as a couple airliner sims. I have all of the train ones; they are decent sims, and excellent games.
Today. I went into Manhattan by Express Bus(QM1A and QM4). I started off with #4909 on Q46 to Main St and Transfer over to the QM1A and had #532,It was good comming in other then a verry long line for CASH and the EZPass Lines where no wait just zip and go and thank god these buses are with EZPass. 532 was on the 12 PM from NST and that is normally about all the seats where taken but today was just about 1/2 the seats where gone.
Deboarded at 45 St and 6 Ave head over to HSBC then ate then I rode the M5 and had #8270(Repowered BTW) and that was goo. Got off at 103 St and Riverside Drive. Played in Riverside Park for a bit then I got back on the M5 and had #8926 and it ran good,It got delayed for about a minute since a Lady in a Electric Wheelchair was getting off at Lincon Center. Deboaded at 57 St and 6 Ave and walked over to 56 St.
Then I took the QM4 had #502. It was running pretty late b/c of verry heavy traffic on 6 Ave and 57 St so it ran late for the 5:35 QM4 back into Manhattan then did good speed down Queens Blvd to make up some lost time. Got off at Queens Blvd and Jewel Ave.
I ate and then went home on the Q60 and Had #261 and it was strangely empty then normal(Was Me,My Mom,and 3 Other People) then when it got to my stop it was only about 2-3 People left on it. Got off at 83 Ave and went home
I did not ment to put deboarded. I ment to put Discharge
Discharge doesn't exactly work either in that connotation. The driver might discharge you, you can't discharge yourself. Use simple words/phrases like "I got off" or "I alighted".
Was the Q60 empty b/c it was Sunday or was it bunched, like it usually is?(If you know) I think the Q60 should have a LTD service, especially on weekdays but I'll put that in a separate thread.
BTW, you should put "I got off" instead of deboarded.
The Q32/60 were especially erratic today due to the NYC Marathon. The lower level of the Queensboro Bridge was closed for the runners.
I notice that all Q60 and Q32 Buses still went into Manhattan today. It went like this:
Q60. To Manhattan:Bear Left Jackson,Right 59 St Bridge Upper Roadway,Left 62 St,Left 2 Ave. To Queens. Left 57 St,Left 59 St Bridge Upper Roadway,and left Jackson and Jackson becomes part of Queens Blvd.
Q32. To Manhattan:Same as Q60 exept after the turn on 2 Ave. It contunes down to 57 St and make a right on 57 St and a Left at 5 Ave. To Queens. would be Right on 57 St and follow the Q60 Detour route thereafter.
M5. To Upper Manhattan: Left on 57 St,Right on 8 Ave and Normal Route from there. To Houston St:Bear Right Colmbus,Left 57 St,Right Madison and resumes Normal Route.
M6 and X1. Terminal moved to 57 St and 7 Ave for today and would make a left on 57 St and a left onto 7 Ave to Terminal for today
Actually, it's Thomspon Av between Van Dam St and the entrance to the upper level of the Queensborough Bridge. The Q39 runs on that street because I used to travel in that area. Although, it's a quicker way to Jackson Av....however, the street you are talking about is not Jackson Av.
I saw this bus on 57 St while I was on #502 on QM4. It was signed up as "NYC MARATHON" and it had a few people inside it and the Lights where not on(It was a bit dark at that time). It was strange to be seeing Novas Being used on a Charter.
Private carriers who operate buses owned by NJT are free to charter them in non rush-hour slots. FTA regulations prohibit chartering of federally-purchased buses during rush hours.
Interesting, but it makes sense.
Here's why it's interesting - several field trips in elementary and middle school utlized buses mostly from either DeCamp or Community Coach - and more often than not, they sent their MC-9A or B cruisers - which were still "PA" units at the time.
And, since these trips took place during school time which were weekdays, and often times the trips left before school started and returned after school ended, they included both the morning and afternoon rush hours. Several times when we were headed for the city, the driver would take the XBL into the Lincoln Tunnel.
Maybe the regulations were different in the late 80's/early-mid 90's???
>>>Maybe the regulations were different in the late 80's/early-mid 90's???<<<
I believe that they were. I seem to remember an arm of NJ Transit called NJ Tours that was forced to get out of the charter business because they unfairly competed against the private companies. Maybe someone else can elaborate.
Peace,
ANDEE
I saw two on 440 in SI heading to the VZ Brige on Sunday Morning at around 2:30am. I could not get the numbers becouse I was going home to NJ at that hours. I also saw on Sunday alot of Acadmy MCI runing south on Route 9 later that day at about 10:00am most were signed NYC Marthon. These all the buses were used by the Marthon to get the runner from different parts of the city to the start of the race. The MTA use to do it, but stoped after there was a five bus pile up in the Battery tunnle some years back.
Robert
Two differences involved:
1. PA-owned buses had different charter rules than the FTA/UMTA. PA-owned buses could be chartered during rush hour, but they had a 75-mile radius limit from the Statue of Liberty. This is why south Jersey NJT MC9s and Flxibles were not owned by the PA.
2. Prior to 1987, transit authorities were free to charter at any time. NJT even had their NJ Tours division which used leased buses that were thus allowed to run 3-14 day vacations. The feds pulled the plug on TAs chartering their equipment in 87 if they received any federal funds. The only exceptions to this regulation are:
- there are no private charter companies in the area
- the existing charter companies don't have enough buses for the area's normal charter load
- special events (Atlanta Olympics fell into this when NJT and NYCT sent RTSes direct from the factory to Atlanta)
- private charter companies have no ADA-accessible equipment
Ok, recently I took a trip to Queens and I was waiting for the Q60 around 7PM and I waited 15 minutes and still no bus came so I got upset & took the F through Manhattan then went to Brooklyn and went home. I saw how the Q60 operates during the day on weekdays & weekends and I observed it bunches like CRAZY!
I believe that the Q60 should be introduced with LTD stop service. Local buses would have differnt patterns like the B44, meaning all buses would run the full length of this route and yes it is possible to create a LTD without adding too much buses. The hours will be variable, depending on ridership.
I have 2 plans:
1. Alternate Q60 buses run as LTD's. Buses make all stops to 52 St LTD stops between 52 St and Queens Blvd/Briarwood station or Hillside Av then all stops to South Jamaica.
2. Extend Q40 via Queens Blvd; similar to the Q20/44, to 52 St while all Q60's are limited during the day.
As for the Q113, I feel that its LTD is very inefficient[its only in the Nassau portion] b/c it has a lot of riders via 147 Av & Brewer Blvd but has decent ridership in the Rockaways/Nassau portion.
My plan for the Q113:
Alternate Q113's would be LTD in 2 sections
1. The current LTD portion in Nassau, local to 147 Av/Springfield Blvd then...
2. from 147 Av/Springfield Blvd to Jamaica
Would be a 7 day a week limited service and would run all day from 6:30 AM to 9PM weekdays, if necessary, would on weekends(which would be likely) from 8 AM to 8PM.
What would you do and what do you think?
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I don't think a Q60 limited would improve service reliability. Queens Blvd. and Queensboro Bridge traffic are very unpredictable. In many places the service road which the Q60 utilises is down to one lane. Add to this all the double parkers and delivery trucks. A limited wouldn't work. Darting back and forth between local and express lanes wouldn't take the public to those busy stops.
Does anyone know if the BX22 will get a limited? It needs it so badly.:(
[I believe that the Q60 should be introduced with LTD stop service....yes it is possible to create a LTD without adding too much buses.]
Hel-LO -- Hasn't anybody been paying attention to the discussion of the B6 and other Limited-Stop services? If a route is frequent enough (say, every 5 minutes or better over the entire "limited" span), then a limited/local split can be done by using alternate trips. Otherwise, overall service levels must be increased in order to provide adequate service for both the limited and local variants - and that gets expensive.
It's one thing to add buses to accommodate increased riding. It's quite another thing to add buses to accommodate a limited/local split under CURRENT ridership levels.
There's absoultely no need for a limited on the Q60 since the reason that it sometimes takes longer than it should is Queensboro Bridge traffic and traffic along Queens Blvd especially all those moron's who decide to double park when they shouldn't,especially on a major section like Queens Blvd since it's hazardous enough already.And besides,since the Q60 is a private bus line run by the DOT,I doubt very much that if you presented your plan to them that they would approve it. There isn't much you can do about waiting for 15mins when you should really be waiting 5mins or whatever when it's traffic the cause of the problem.
If ever there was a route that has been crying for limited-stop service, it is the Q60. I do like your idea of extending the Q40 along Queens Blvd, however, why terminate it at 52nd Street. What's at 52nd Street? I have been an advocate of introducing Q60 LTD stop service between 33rd Street and Jamaica LIRR Station. Extending the Q40 along "the Blvd" a la the Q4420 is a great idea, only turn the Q40's around the 33rd St/Van Dam St area to better serve Aviation HS and LaGuardia College.
As for the Q113, I thought a return to its original routing combined with the Burnside Ave/Sheridan Blvd bypass would be most effective. "Back in the day", the 113 ran along Brewer Blvd all the way to Rockaway Blvd, where it turned left and headed out toward Five Towns. The Q113LTD should use this routing along with the Burnside bypass. Now what to do about the 147th Ave/Brookville Blvd customers? Obviously, they would be placed on the Q111 (which has gobs of seating capacity along 147th Ave). Alternate Q113s would probably have to continue running local in order to serve the 2 stops along Brookville Blvd.
Mark
As for your plan for the Q113Ltd, I agree with most of your plan. The only thing I would change is instead of having the Q113Ltd. running down 147th Ave., run it straight down Guy Brewer Blvd. to Rockaway Blvd. (which would better serve workers at all of those processing plants and factories in that area) then make a left on Rockaway Blvd. and run non-stop into Nassau County then continuing the current LTD portion in Nassau.
In my opinion, this would really save a lot of time an already long bus ride.
Please comment.
Thank you.
I see what you are saying: let locals stay via 147 Av & Brookville and move LTD's to Rockaway Blvd. Not a bad idea to move it from Brookville, which is narrow, full of squiggly turns and gets filled with traffic at times but you gotta see if people will catch on and see if they like that idea.
Trust me, anything that will get passengers to Far Rockaway quicker, they will go for.
Too bad the NYCDOT doesn't feel the same way.
Again, someone is using the @transitalk.org addy to send out viruses.
IF YOU RECIEVE A E-MAIL FROM ANY @transitalk.org ADDY, ERASE IT IMMEDIATLEY.
I as the webmaster have transitalk.org set up to where you can only e-mail TO an @transitalk.org address. There is no way any mail can be sent from it. So someone out there is using our e-mail tag for virus sending!
Thank You In Advance
Trevor Logan
Webmaster
www.transitalk.org
Damn Virus Senders!
THANKS, for your continued help, your warnings and guidance.
Anyone here ever drove or is driving a Bluebird bus? How do those vehicles compared to other buses. I know that they are not used in regular transit service. Are they more manuverable then other buses?
Any input would be appreciated.
Bluebirds are awful, at least the ones that I drove for Univ. of Md. I drove them all of about 4 times during the two years I was there. One of the times, I had an accident because the tail swing was so long and it jerked so much when you accelerated that it tended to just go when you didn't want it to. The accident was definitely my fault, but the other buses we had, even the Thomas', seemed to have better overall control. I barely touched the pedal, and boy that thing just lurched and left me with a very uneasy feeling. The turning of that thing was just awful too.
These were 1985 buses, so maybe the newer ones have been made a little better.
Why is that schoolbuses have a "wigwag" that drops down when air pressure drops below a certain point but transits buses (non that I know of), or motorcoaches have them?
Different manufacturers installed different devices to comply with local and state laws in which the vehicles operate. It might be the state in which those particular buses are operating in do still require the "wigwag".
I haven't seen one of those in eons, I remember them when I lived in NY...in fact, have NEVER seen them out here in California. Buses out here are required tohave a visible (i.e., light) and audible (i.e. beeper or buzzer).
What the hell's a wigwag?
BIG AL
A wigwag is a red aim device that drops down into the drivers face when the low air warning turns on. It is to get the School bus Drivers action faster then just an light and a beeping noice. I is a Fedial Law to have this on every school bus in the USA. I know this becouse I learned on a school bus to get me CLD (I Passed my road test on the first try) before I became a B/O for the MTA.
Robert
Thanks Robert for explaining that. I'm not familiar with school buses at all other than the one's I rode back in 1969-1973.
BIG AL
Yeah all of our Suffolk Transportation School buses new and old have the a Wigwag device on them. There was a class a couple of weeks ago (which I was a part of) which happened to be on a bus, where some lady from upper management was performing a brake check on one of the newer Blue Bird buses, the arm swung down to let her know that the air was low. They even have AM/FM radios!
The only time I ever saw a "wig-wag" was on a 1971 Flxible New Look at TARTA in Toledo. Everything I have sat in from 1973 up has had a buzzer and/or light.
-F.
Sorry this took so long but I had to get it right for you guys! I went to "The King's College" at the bottom of the Empire State Building last Friday and I also got some observations. However, I did not get no pics (although I wish that I did). So, here are my observations. Enjoy!
Suffolk Transit
#9604 - S92
#200x - S110
MTA Long Island Bus
#186 - Not in service (on eastbound LIE near exit 37). It had "God Bless America"
MTA New York City Transit
#8360 or #8380 - Q30 (repowered)
An ORION - Q30 (I do not know the number)
#2900 - X51 (deadheading to Manhattan via LIE. Got on the LIE approaching 164th St. She looked shinny...VERY SHINNY! We was trying to catch her BUT she beat us into Manhattan via Midtown Tunnel)
#8373 - Q88 (repowered)
#611 - Q88 (The windows on this express bus must go!)
#2898 - X51 (Flushing bound and in service)
#8291 - M2 (repowered)
#8279 - M4 (not repowered)
#9024 - M2
#2775 - X37
#658, #268 and then one minute later #556 - Q32 (talk about bus bunching)
#1912 - X1
#2193 - X27 (since when did the X27 use Park Av South? Will it go back to Broadway or this is the permanent deal?)
#4537 - M2
#5142 - M2 (Funny, no M3s at all that night. Must have obviously miss it)
#8227 - M14C (Yes, I said M14C. I thought the M14A and M14D was the only two but I saw M14C.)
#8981 - M5
#8991 - M5
#1932 - X1
#8446 - M15 (repowered)
#8199 - M15 (repowered)
#4902 - Q88 (repainted)
New York Bus Service
#1691 - Manhattan Express (That's what the Destination sign said)
Liberty Lines Express
#3024
#3002
I did not get the routes and bus #3002 was shinny with no ads.
Queens Surface Corporation
#581 - QM1A (NEW? I thought they went up to #580?)
#517 - QM1A
Command Bus Company
#4957 - BM4
We parked on E 35th St near 5th Av. Drove down 5th Av then Broadway to Bruno's Bakery on LaGuardia Pl between Bleeker St and Houston St(NICE PLACE! I recommend it!) Then we took the Williamsburg Bridge back to the BQE to the LIE then home.
Again, Enjoy!
I had to go to CBS/Harran Trailway's Saturday evening and found all of the 2000 series Gillig Suburbans park all together. I got numbers:
2003 2002
2004 2006
2005
It was dark so that was all I could see but they have more there though. While I was there picking up paper work, I should've asked for a roster sheet. Oh they put our transit's at Suffolk Bus to shame. They keep theirs clean.:)
The proper name of the company is Harran Coachways for the last 15-20 years. At one time they were in the Trailways system but not anymore.
When I first moved to Suffolk, their livery was white with thin green stripes and Blue lettering. When they went into the Trailways system the livery went to white with a red stripe with Harran Trailways in white lettering. I think Wells & Wells ( a small charter company in Huntington) still has one of Harran's old MCI-9's in that livery but with the lettering changed of course.
Later the livery was changed to all red with yellow pinstriping type letters.
Somewhere along the way they moved from the south shore of Nassau County (Bellmore ?) to their current facility in West Babylon.
Gotcha! Thanks.
On my way to school this morning, I saw a nice D4500 with a fresh new Maryland MTA scheme going up Rockville pike, which brought up 2 questions in my mind.
1. MTA has D4500s?
2. What was it doing on Rockville pike? (spotted it heading north right before Edmonston drive.)
It could be one of the coaches Eyre operates for them on routes such as the 991 in MTA colors for some reason. It was probably deadheading from Rock Spring Park.
Speaking of coach buses, I saw Connie Morella (VOTE FOR HER AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO AS WELL!) at Grosvenor this morning. There was a coach bus there, I believe an MCI, with campaign signs all over it, over something else, but I am not sure what, nor did I take pictures.
Maryland MTA is now the proud owner's of 20 MCI D4500, al la NJT Style!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
That's 25 of them Flava, and the last 10 it appears are equipped with Restrooms.
Just who is the next garage to get bike racks. I have not seen anymore Southeast buses with bike racks, but I have seen some strange observations today.
More Southern buses transferred out:
2083 and 2084: to Four Mile Run
2089: to Landover, this one has a bike rack
Buses spotted with bike racks:
5169: from Landover, thought it was 5175, as it was at the time the only Landover bus with one for almost two months.
I guess now it is not which garage is getting bike racks, it will be which buses that are left that aren't getting them.
If I am correct, next year WMATA will celebrate 30 years of operating buses, as I don't think WMATA will do anything like they did when they turned 25, would be interesting if they did.
I enjoyed their 25th anniversary, more the day in which the then fare zones were dropped and rides were 25 cents, and you could get a transfer on top of that. Did anyone else enjoy this benefit?
One more thing:
EVERYONE GET OUT AND VOTE. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT, VOTE ANYWAY AND SEND A MESSAGE, BE IT RAIN OR SHINE.
I rode the L1, one of my last rides on the Fishbowls. My last one came on 3806 on the 30 several years later but I don't take MetroBus that often.
VOTE MORELLA!!!
VOTE MORELLA!!!
VOTE MORELLA!!!
INNER PURPLE LINE
A group of officials from Local 100 of the TWU visited 126th Street Depot during the AM pullout this morning. The group was there to ensure that all buses pulling out were in compliance with state law and did not have any safety or operating defects. A number of buses were found to be defective and were prevented from leaving the depot. The largest group of buses that did not go into service were the 80xx series from 1991 and the 84xx series from 1993. These buses are notorious among TA drivers for having the worst right outside mirrors ever put on a bus. The mirrors are tall and narrow and are attached to the body of the bus by a very short arm which cannot be adjusted from side to side. What the driver mostly sees through these mirrors is the side of the bus and a very narrow sliver of the roadway. They are essentially useless for seeing anything on the right side of the bus. Because of this glaring deficiency the union officials deemed the buses to be unsafe. Morning rush hour service on the M15 was severely effected and limited service was suspended for most of the morning. A total of 27 drivers were taken out of service by TA management for refusing to drive buses that had been found to have deficiencies. The same group of union officials will be back at the depot tomorrow morning. It will be interesting to see what transpires.
Can't wait to read your next post. It's going to be real interesting when the current contracts expire come December 15th.
I also remember those mirrors as being very awkward to see from on the 8300's in Q.V. What is interesting however is that most of them still work electrically, while most of the electric mirrors on the newer RTS's have been broken and replaced with the regular manual mirrors.
BIG AL
per ch 5 news this am, ltd service on the m15 is again suspended today.
Today i did the Bus Eveness Survey @ 1 Av/14St Northbound from 0445am to 0900am. There were only 6 limted bus until 0800am than suspended the rest of the day. I suppost to do 64 runs on my work assignment but i only did 36 runs from 0445am to 0900am also i have seen only one 84xx & few 82xx series & most of 92xx & 75xx were running all monrings. There were about 75 to 85 people waiting for limted bus after 0800am & been waiting over 25 mintues until the dispatcher came by & told everyone there is no limted bus & must take local bus. Most of them flaging down the taxi to get to work on time. The last two day is worse chaos.
DNJ
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Morning rush hour service on the M15 was severely effected and limited service was suspended for most of the morning.
Yeah, that'll get the public on your side for sure.
JD
What makes you think we care about having the public on our side? These bus mirrors are terrible and shouldn't have been installed in the first place. They are constantly written-up and constantly ignored as a safety defect. If the TA can spend $475,000 on a bus, they can surely spend $25 on a reliable mirror. If the public has a problem with that, too bad. We've had enough of the double-standard safety-agenda of the TA.
Yeah, I noticed that those mirrors have problems b/c sometimes drivers have to adjust it so much that it wastes time and it gets frustrating. Since Flatbush has a sloid fleet of 80xx/81xx and 84xx buses, do most of these buses have those defective mirrors also?
Any info is appreciated. Thanx.
The same turn of events occurred at Mother Hale Depot several weeks ago. A total of 30-35 buses were removed from service with management responding the same way they did at 126 St. In fact the next morning all operators who pulled out late were written up by management.
They'll probably be forced to write-up 44,000 of us in just over a month, I suppose.
Wow - This is the first time I've heard that B/O's consider these mirrors to be unsafe. I hope they get decent replacement mirrors soon. I was just thinking about the period in the early 90's when Hale had a solid fleet of these 1990 RTS.
Wayne
Those mirrors provide an excellent view of the front door weather stripping, and not much else. It's high time the union did something about it. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, Wayne. A good percentage of those mirrors force the operator to "wing it" or make right turns "from feel".
Still feel safe?
That's not good at all. I'm not a B/O or even a nervous type, but I agree with the union taking action -- especially since the TA is so quick to nail the B/O for accidents.
Gun Hill has a bunch 1990 RTS too, but their power mirrors were replaced with the standard manual mirror long ago. I remember I was annoyed to see them replaced so soon, but I guess it was actually a good thing.
Thanks for the explanation.
Wayne
Can someone back me up on these two points.
The first is I have seen 4368 running in Southeast routes. Isn't it correct that ex-Bladensburg's 4360-4367 and 4370-4375 are running now from Montgomery?
The second is I have seen 9757 and 9758 are running from Landover. Isn't it correct that at least 9744-9754 are running from now Four Mile Run and at least 9761 and 9765 are running from the same garage.
If this is wouldn't it make sense to have 4375 or 4374 (which ever is the highest running from Montgomery) been transferred to Annex/Southeast and also wouldn't also make sense that 9764 and 65 run from Landover?
One more to add, in that I saw 9425 running on a Landover route. Hopefully this bus and the other ex-Bladensburg 9420s run from Royal, like 9421, 22 and 9427-9431. Otherwise it wouln't make sense to transfer out 9421, 22 and 9427-29 out of Landover only to have 9423-26 transferred there.
I meant 9765 and 9764 tranferred to Landover not from.
The Bx20 parallels the Bx7 and Bx10 in most places, wouldn't it be better if they got took that bus out of Riverdale and put it on Burke Avenue crosstown to Co Op City? It woudl get more ridership, as The Bx25/Bx26 are crowded and also the Bx28 and Bx30. The Bx20 would be a good edition to Co Op City, and filling in the gap that is lacking crosstown bus service (Burke Avenue).
That's a very good idea.Something needs to be done about that route.I always wondered why that route even exist's since it runs with the Bx7 and Bx10.At this current time,there is really no need for that route.The change you suggest is as good as any to make that route into something that really is beneficial instead of worthless.
Of course the people that want to take 1 transfer round trips between Washington Heights and Riverdale would have to walk over to the 1/9 a few blocks away to complete the round trip.
I think its there to provide "additional" service to the Bx7 via Broadway and the Bx10 in the Bronx. Its going to take a lot of changes to move this bus. I agree that it does look useless but you have to see how much people actually ride this bus and from the headways I see, it doesn't look like a whole lot.
1.You have to move the Bx20 from the Henry Hudson Pkwy and Johnson Av
2.How would it get to Burke Av
3.Rider opposition may/would be very high but you never know
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Started off at Hicksville with the n49 to Hempstead,connecting to the N91. From the airport,caught the Q35 to the B100. Serval things i saw:
Orion V From LIBUS #646 and #652 still had MSBA on them.
Saw a Gillig(40 foot-i think) near American Airways garage-or was it american eagle. it was all grey.
Third:passing by Green Bus lines i saw one of the old GMCRTSII-02 parked with the rest of the RTS buses in service. Now i know that all of the RTSII-02 have been retired from QS and Green, but was one put in service by choice?
comments.
N49-#600-orion V
N91-#622-Orion V
Q35-#1179-TMCRTS
B100-#369-GMCRTSII-04
Betcha it was much better than the N20, huh?
N49 is a pretty good way to get from Hicksville to Hempstead. Pretty fast too.
What did you have on the N91? They usually run the diesel Orion V's there. How crowded was it? Whenever I took that bus, there were only 5 other people on at most.
[What did you have on the N91?]
Bus #622. Check out his "signature".
OK I see now.
I saw on a website (I think "The BUS SPOT") has a pic of MTA LI Bus #622 at Mitchell Field as the "22A Roosevelt Field" My question is this....where is the "N" Can these buses fit the "N" of the are on the "N22A"? Thanks for your time.
Yes, the destination sign on those is actually two signs.
They have one for the route number, and the longer sign is for the destination. What you saw was a defective sign, with the part where N displayed is broken.
The diesel Orions in the 500s, which aren't in use, feature newer signs that are used on the L10G powered CNG Orions.
Thanks very much!
I've actually seen the Orion CNG's on the N91 quite a bit recently.
The last time I saw the N91 at Hempstead,I saw a Orion CNG on it.I can't remember the exact number but it was in the 300's and I rode one of the 200's when I took that bus for the first time a couple of months ago.And quite a bit of people rode that bus,defiantely more than 5 people got on.It was a very nice trip that I just might take it again.
Yeah I may take it to JFK airport. But I am NOT taking any pics!!!
Yeah I may take it to JFK airport. But I am NOT taking any pics!!!
At least not at or near the airport anyway! I used to know an older man who's hobby was photographing planes (in the 1960's). Can you imagine doing that in this day and age at JFK?
Ridership seems to be up quite a bit on the N91. I've seen a few recently with 10 or more on board at the Rockville Centre LIRR station. Since that's the next to last stop, I'm guessing that there are quite a few more towards the middle of the route.
CG
I haven't taken the N91 since early 2001. Back when the Thomas builts ran on there, thank God they scrapped those.
I plan on taking it again, when I get the chance.
wasnt that crowded(especially at 11:00 in the morning plus no school open)-probably less than 5-10 people. The N49 however got mobbed by the time we were in hempstead.
[From the airport,caught the Q35 to the B100.]
I didn't know the Q35 runs to the airport. Don't you have to take the long term parking bus to Howard Beach, then the A train to the S shuttle to Rockaway Park to get the Q35?
I think you are thinking of the Q53.
wound up catching a shuttle train that was running from Howard Beach-JFK to Broad Channel then connected to another shuttle train from Broad Channel to Beach 116th Street to connect with the Q35.
Yeah, the Q35 runs to Brooklyn from B116th. It would probably quicker just to take the A and connect with a bus in Brooklyn. You have to wait soo long for that damn shuttle.
RTS II-02 at GBL? Wasn't that a slope-back? Is it still a slope-back or was it retrofitted with a Sutrack a/c unit ?
I assume that the GBL garage you're talking about is on Rockaway Blvd near the Belt Parkway.
Finally a portion of the Academy Family goes union, the 22 Hillside Division which operates the Route 22 Hillside, The Meadowlands Plaza-PABT Route, The Hoboken-PABT Route, The Willow-Clinton (Hoboken) Route, The Paine Webber Shuttle Routes, The Hoboken Senior Citizens Shuttle, The Hoboken-Wall Street Route, & The NJT Contract for the 2, 88, 123, and 125 Routes.
However the union is a absolute joke, its a Wholesalers Union for places like MACY's and so forth. How the hell are you gonna get a Wholesalers Union for a bus operation. This is beyond me!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
[How the hell are you gonna get a Wholesalers Union for a bus operation?]
The same way the United Auto Workers wound up representing secretaries at Barnard College. It would seem that this wholesalers union showed up, made its case, and got voted in.
It is not a joke. The Transit unions showed no interest in organizing them so they went elsewhere. I happen to be in this union (different local) and it is not a bad union. I have 7.5 hour workday and a 37.5 hour work week among other things.
This happened over 2 months ago. The story is HERE(scroll down to "Local 108 on a roll")
In this day and age you should be supporting any shop that votes to organize and not knocking what type of union they are.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hopefully those clowns will start doing the right thing on the NJT contract routes.
troy
You are surely right about that TROY!
Tony M.
Well the problem is that the union has already showed a sign of weakness, I have a friend that works at Hillside and they have already told me that things are actually worse then the pre-union days. Its even know that some of the union officials have been paid off by Academy Management, which is not a surprising thing, knowing the operation.
So I D K, not every union or shall I say Local is keen. I wish the Hillside employees the best but at the same time I think they need to thing about the future with another local or union.
Regards.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
>>>Its even know that some of the union officials have been paid off by Academy Management...<<<
That's a pretty strong charge. Do you have any proof of that?
Peace,
ANDEE
Some of the Academy Employees Do, I'm not a Academy Employee, I'm getting my info form Academy insiders. WHICH ARE VERY VERY VERY Reliable sources.
Trevor
Academy has their ways of screwing their employees over for what they did going to the union. As you all know Academy is very much against being apart of the union. Alot, of you do also know that Academy doesn't treat their employees great either, but you do get some advantages working for Academy without a union. Even though its against the law having drivers working over a certain amount of hours at one time, but the ones who really wanted to make a couple extra bucks, were able to make more money by letting them work some more hours but adjusting the log book, just in case DOT was to show up. Instead of having a 5 day work week, there are some who wanted extra money got away with working 6 even 7 days a week. Thats when the drivers now get screwed over, they will not be able to make those extra bucks now since they have the union on their shoulders. What terrible planning on the Hillside Drivers part, then again what do you expect from those half minded idiots, that can barely speak english.
Now Hillside is not the only part that is union, Rutgers and Middlesex are becoming a part of the union. Some of the Middlesex Drivers I have spoke with, want nothing to do with the union and don't want to become part of the union, which is fine.
From being a good observer seeing how things are done in general, I blaim everything on management. I am a firm believer of having a union, but if things were run better, and salaries were higher, I don't think so many drivers would have been so desparate to just go to any union they could find. If management was fixed up and other things as well, that company would be number one on alot of people's lists to work. You have so much opportunity at that company. You have a huge selection of runs, charters as well as Atlantic City. Some of you may think Coach USA is the dominate company in NJ, but until they get rid of the company names, and just make them depots, I still very much think Academy is the most dominate company in NJ. But with Coach USA's money troubles, that will soon be Academy.
Jason
Um actually, that garage thing has basically come to passs. In Coach USA we no longer refer each other to our company names but now as Garages.
Here is the list......
Rockland Coaches Operation is now referred to as Westwood Garage (My Residence)
Short Line Operation is now referred to as Mahwah Garage
Leisure Lines Operation is now referrerd to as Paramus Garage
Community Operation is now referred to as Passaic Garage
Red & Tan Tours Operations is now referred to as Jersey City Garage
Suburban Operations is now referred to as New Brunswick Garage
Olympia is now referred to as Elizabeth Garage.
Now most of the old timers in these companies still refer to them as thier original names, but mostly in management (where it counts) they are calling them by garages.
As for Coach USA's financial problems, looks like some things are starting to pan out. And no one has heard anything since Academy's small visit to the Westwood Garage.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Coach USA Operator - Westwood Garage
To make that official, they would need to take the company names off the buses. I could see why Suburban's are still on there, since most of their crusier fleet is old. Why are Rockland Coaches' D4000's say Red & Tan on the front as oppose to Suburbans that sport the Coach USA logo on the front
Well, That was because, and as stupid as it sounds, its true. When Rockland first got the D4000s there was a few with CUSA Logos on them, the people/passengers were getting confused about the buses. The buses were coming up and passengers didn't recognize them. So to stop the confusion Rockland decided to put the name on the front.
However with the new batch of D4000s/D4500s, we have a newer paint scheme which will use the CUSA logo on the front and to represent which garage it comes from on the side in a small logo it will state the old companies name.
Example Photo Below, Short Line's D4500s which is now Mahwah Garage.
Taken on I-287 Interchange on the NY/NJ State Border. By Trevor Logan.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Leisure Lines' Paramus garage- is that the one right next to Route 17?
These different companies must really be becoming consolidated then, here's why - several weeks ago I was on the 756 (operated by Comm--um, I mean, out of "Passaic Garage" ;-) out of BCC going to Bergen Mall. The farebox wasn't working right and after the bus left Garden State Plaza, instead of turning left out of GSP way, it went straight onto a little dead end street and at the end was a CUSA garage - and I saw Community, Leisure Line, AND Short Line buses there, as well as some older shuttle buses. I heard the driver telling one of the mechanics that he was promised a different bus at that garage but it never happened and instead they just replaced the farebox.
BUT, isn't (or wasn't) there a Leisure Line facility in Mahwah - not the same one as Short Line, but another one near the Route 17/I-287 crossroads?
The "Leisure Line" facility in Mahwah was turned over to Short Line when Leisure Lines moved to Paramus. HOWEVER at the Mahwah Garage you have the base of the Short Line routes, all of the Tappan Zee Express runs, about 8 Leisure Lines runs and 35-40 Rockland Coaches runs.
Paramus Garage houses some of the Short Line equipment, the base of the Leisure Lines runs, a portion of the NJT Contract 700 runs, the Columbia University Shuttle Runs, a good portion of the charter runs and the Central Maintenance for all of Northern District Coach USA in which incorporates the Passaic, Mahwah, Westwood, Hoboken and Paramus Facilities. As for Jersey City, Elizabeth and New Brunswick, they basically do all of thier HEAVY HEAVY maintenance.
At the Paramus garage there is a few historical buses stored including a Rockland Coach GMC Fishbowl and a few old Double Deckers from Gray line.
Due to facility consolidation, midday layovers are being re-planned. Now you have during the midday, Rockland & Short Line laying over in the Hoboken (Gray Line) Garage. You have Suburban laying over in the Jersey City Garage. Elizabeth which houses the old Olympia now Coach USA Newark Airport Express Service basically houses those buses only along with the Orion Vs, New Flyer D40LF and Champion Solos used in the Newark Liberty Airport Shuttles. In the Elizabeth Facility there is some of the old Grumman Flxibles housed that NJT used to use and also the Elizabeth Facility is an annex for ABC Companies to sell of MCI 9A and 9B Cruisers. ONE Bus which was another aquisition along with Seven Bus Lines has been consolidated into one facility which could be considered as the Kearny or Newark Garage. But the ONE Bus operation of Coach USA seems to be the less talked about operation.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Just like the line in the Weird AL song, there were some perverts in the back of my N27 today. I got on, there was a dirty looking guy laying across 5 seats, sleeping. Then he got up, lied down next to an attractive female (his girlfriend)putting his head in her lap and "doin stuff". It seems women like tall perverts.
They also were playing with the stop bell, the driver had to shut it off. I had to keep myself from laughing! :-0
Interesting. Today, I had a man walk past me without paying (although he did open his wallet at the farebox, but was apparently dissatisfied as to its contents), proceed to the back of the bus, light up a cigarette and begin caressing the man seated beside him.
Just another day at the office.
Did you holla at the non-payer to pay up?
Landover and Southern are both getting bike racks, nice to get that cleared up.
Landover:
9365 and 2058
Southern:
9320: ex Bladensburg
4217: to my knowledge still at Southern
4068: This bus used to be at Four Mile Run, don't know if this bus has
been transferred back to Southern
4327: This bus used to be at Four Mile Run, now transferred to Southern.
Day two of the stand off between the TWU and 126 management was even crazier than day one. Today a total of 55 drivers were taken out of service for refusing to drive the 80xx and 84xx series of buses. Top union officials, including the vice president, met with 126 management in an attempt to resolve the issue. The union presented management with the following offer; the 80xx and 84xx buses would be allowed back in service if management agreed to reinstate all drivers who had been taken out of service and if they also agreed to form a joint committee to analyze any accident that an driver may have while driving the 80xx and 84xx buses and not automatically charge the driver with a chargeable accident. In addition the union proposed that another joint committee be formed to study the best and most cost effective way to replace the mirrors on these buses. 126 management rejected this offer so the stalemate continues. The union handed out copies of a page from the TA's own training manual for new drivers which had a photo of what a proper right outside mirror should look like. The caption under the photo read that the mirror should show the pivot point of the bus and should also show 2 feet of visibility from the side of the bus. The rightside mirror on the 80xx and 84xx shows neither. On a comical note, 126 mangement had some one from the Zerega training center come down to the depot to examine the mirror and determine whether it was safe to drive with it or not. This individual declared that the mirror was not safe to drive with and this person was quickly sent back to the training center. Thirty two percent of the 126 fleet of 180 buses are 80xx and 84xx buses. That's a lot of buses being kept off the road and consequently service, especially on a line like the M15, is being severely affected. In another development, a copy of a letter from officials of the Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) lines to the MTA appeared on a bulletin board at 126. The letter basically said that drivers represented by ATU would not drive any buses with mirrors identical to the ones on the 80xxn and 84xx buses at 126. This whole situation could become very interesting. Stay tuned.
Here's an Idea for the TA: send the RTS' in question to MJQ, and bring in some artics.
Problem Solved!
You don't think the M23, M79, and M86 would get a wee bit crowded as a result?
Hey, they had RTS's previously so why not? It may actually bring back the reliability of these routes. Just a thought.
The artics didn't replace the RTSs one-for-one.
I can tell you that the artics get crowded. I don't recommend shrinking them by a third.
The reliability problems are due to the increased dwell times over the dwell times a greater number of smaller buses would encounter. If each artic is simply replaced by an RTS, dwell times won't drop.
>"The artics didn't replace the RTSs one-for-one.
I can tell you that the artics get crowded. I don't recommend shrinking them by a third."<
I believe 1 artic replaced 2 RTS's on these crosstown routes. Good thing they didn't put them on the M96. I rode all 3 of them since they became all artic and I agree it gets crowded but from my experience and what I see it gets crowded b/c of slightly reduced headways, the length of the buses and traffic.
[I can tell you that the artics get crowded.]
Who stated otherwise?
- - - - -
[I don't recommend shrinking them by a third.]
On a seat-for-seat basis, 2 articulateds (2x62=126 seats) can replace 3 standards (3x40=120 seats), for a substitution ratio of 2/3 or 66.6%. However...
- - - - -
[I believe 1 artic replaced 2 RTS's on these crosstown routes.]
...NYCT's standard practice has been to schedule at least 3 artics (3x62=186 seats) for every 4 standards (4x40=160 seats); that gives a substitution ratio of 3/4 or 75%, which still reduces the number of buses and drivers needed to provide the service, BUT allows a 16% increase in seating capacity (186/160=1.1625).
The continued crowding means that the 16% additional capacity was needed to absorb ridership growth.
Flatbush41 was suggesting to replace each artic with one RTS. I'm sure you agree that would cause crowding beyond the crowding that existed prior to the use of artics.
My gut feeling is that the crosstown artics are slightly less crowded than the buses were when I rode the crosstown every day in the late 80's and early 90's -- but they're also much slower. The dwell time takes a major toll. If the artics could be equipped with a double-wide front door and two fareboxes, the situation might improve.
Suprised I haven't heard a peep on the news about this stalemate.
TA has to fix those buses.
Knocking down buses is a prelude of what's to come. Did you know that a "work stoppage", even of safety-issue variety, is a violation of the Taylor Law? Interesting....
Well if the buses are viewed as unsafe to operate from the bus driver's point of view, they should be taken out of service and fixed. The TA is being a real cheapskate about it. How much does it fix to replace a damn mirror?
Safety is way more important than money.
John, you're missing the big picture. The TA doesn't care about safety. Yours or mine. They care about LAWSUITS. LAWSUITS interfere with BONUSES.
time to get those orion V buses out of storage and put them in service. looks like 126th street is going to need them.
GM's(1984, most 1985's and some 1986's) that had some life left could have been used if they weren't scrapped. If this continues for a long period, it will create hell, especially on the M15[had there been a 2 Av subway...]. Scrapping/selling those buses may come back to haunt them in the future.
As far as I'm concerned, the 1982 RTS belongs on the M15. Oh well.
You guys are both missing the big picture. Neither the TA nor the Union are interested in SAFETY on this issue. The two parties agreed 4 years ago that the mirrors were OK.
How long have these busses been around? The question that needs to be asked is "Why is this suddenly an issue?".
This is a union strong-arm technique. They're saying "Look what we can do if we don't get what we want on the contract". It's not wrong or right, it's just part of the game.
The union pulls busses on a safety issue to get public sentiment against the TA as the deadline approaches. The TA suspends drivers to potentially weaken their loyalty to the union (the drivers realize what's going on here -- but won't want to take a hit in their own wallet)
CG
(You guys are both missing the big picture. Neither the TA nor the Union are interested in SAFETY on this issue. The two parties agreed 4 years ago that the mirrors were OK. How long have these busses been around? The question that needs to be asked is "Why is this suddenly an issue?". )
Something tells me that those platform extenders at Union Square and South Ferry might become an issue as well. T/Os might refuse to work the 1/9 and 4/5 for safety reasons until the stations are straightened. Or a new contract is agreed to.
You haven't been looking in the right places.
I saw it on NY1 website. But as usual, the NYC Broadcast media, missed the boat.
I'm always saying that there must be something in the air that affects the TA mgmt. Here it is - they have an issue pointed out to them and basically they're brushing it off. The priorities are just screwed up. It's a sad state of affairs when this sort of thing happens and on the other hand the TA sees fit to find money to paint buses that are headed for scrap.
Wayne
Why would they target 126th St Bus Depot? Why not target Michael J. Quill or Flatbush or any other depot?
Why would they target 126th St Bus Depot?
Because 126 St. is home to the M15, the busiest bus route in the country.
JD
Okay, makes since. In the country? Wow, go M15! So, that means that buses #5025-5054, #7038-7049, #7535-7559 and #9186-9228 are getting a workout since the TMC 1990-1991 and 1993 buses are being held back.
Should of kept some 4300's and 4500's...... Don't forget, 126 also has some 9000's[9029,9034,9037-9039,9042-9047,9049]. The purpose of this post is showing that they shouldn't scrap the older RTS's so soon because they can become very valuable.
Should of kept some 4300's and 4500's...... Don't forget, 126 also has some 9000's[9029,9034,9037-9039,9042-9047,9049]. The purpose of this post is showing that they shouldn't scrap the older RTS's so soon because they can become very valuable.
Even if they kept a bunch of the old buses around, I presume they'd be stored. Wouldn't it be faster and cheaper to fix one mirror on each bus than to resurrect a bunch of stored buses?
JD
Yes, I assume that they would be stored. The way things are going, YES b/c if they are too cheap to fix a mirror then there's a problem. No disrespect but the TA is flawed and its sad that they can't fix ONE mirror per bus and its only the 1990/1991 and 1993 RTS's.
If it was the entire RTS fleet since 1990 and it was both mirrors[exterior], then "I understand" that it MAY, I repeat MAY be a little costly but come on its what about 450 buses and its only the right side[the one near the front doors].
If this problem occurs at all depots that have 1990/1991 and 1993 RTS's, I think we could see a dilemma like this also at:
FP, FB, JG, GH, ENY, MV, YUK, QV and HP
Agree/disagree/neutral. Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
The buses at Gun Hill have had their power mirrors replaced with the regular manual mirror long ago. Even most of their 9200 series no longer have power mirrors.
Wayne
Umm, I've been on the 8000's/8100's many times on the Q58, and never heard a FP B/O complain about the mirror.
Then they need to bring in this artic they have plan for 126 street or borrow some from Kingbridge or Gunhill like before.
Then they need to bring in these artic they have plan for 126 street or borrow some from Kingbridge or Gunhill like before.
The articulated buses that are planned to be assigned to 126th Street Depot haven't been built yet. If "madision" or anyone else can find a way to run nonexistent buses, please write to NYCT's Senior Vice President - Buses and let him know what it is.
David
Last night AMC showed 1985's theatrical HEAVEN HELP US, a comedy revolving around Catholic high school teenagers in Brooklyn and set in 1965. The fictional Saint Basil's High School for Boys appeared to be located in the twenties between 3rd and 4th Avenues in what is now often called Greenwood Heights or the South Slope. Lots of old frame row houses common to the area were visible. There were many shots of the elevated Gowanus, a necking-in-car scene at what looked like the Union Street drawbridge, and the obligatory romantic interlude at Coney Island heard under a mid-sixties pop song.
At one point, Mary Stuart Masterson is seen getting on GM Fishbowl 3758, correctly colored green, which would have only been a year old at the time. The location is not clear. In another scene, there appears to be another GM Fishbowl with air-conditioner and seventies blue paint scheme on 3rd Avenue- possibly 5227? As it was only visible for a second and from a distance, it was hard to tell.
No locality names were specifically mentioned, but the characters seemed to be predominately Irish (Corbett, Dunn, Rooney). That seems apropos with nearby Park Slope and Windsor Terrace- Bishop Ford country- which were heavily Irish Catholic until gentrification set in during the seventies. It's kind of an interesting change of pace from how most nostalgic blue-collar/coming-of-age-in-Brooklyn movies seem to feature only Italian or Jewish characters.
Of course, having the mileu Irish-American may have nicely accomodated hot eighties' Brat Packers Andrew McCarthy and Kevin Dillon, who just don't seem like the greasy Italian or nerdy Jewish character stereotypes favored in film as noted above. I'll have to do an IMDB search on HEAVEN HELP US to check the writer and director as a possible clue as to how deep their Brooklyn roots might run.
Anyway, when I saw 3758 on screen, I nudged my wife and said "We were ON this bus!", which we indeed were at the 2001 Busfest. She didn't believe me.
It's still nice to see old buses we know appearing on film like that.
if you can find it,rent the flamingo kid. i dont know if its on video. 3758 is also in this very enjoyable film.
Make sure you don't get mixed up and rent Pink Flamingos.....
The school interior scenes in that movie look all too much like MY alma mater, Cardinal Hayes -- with the curved hallways painted that awful shade of green (known as Jailhouse Green, or Industrial Green...)
It's always good to see a bus on film, especially a Fishbowl. More Fishbowl features:
-"Telling Lies In America" (1997). This Kevin Bacon film also stars Callista "Ally McBeal" Flockhart and an ex-Cleveland 1959 Fishbowl. I had the pleasure of riding this restored coach, and it still had bolt marks where a camera shot Flockhart and Brad Renfro.
-"Running Scared" (1986). A Billy Crystal flick that is truly wacky. It includes a chase scene which involves a Caprice taxi on the Rapid Transit tracks through downtown. Also, many 70s-era CTA Fishbowl 5307s are seen rolling by in the background.
-"Ferris Bueller's Day Off" (1986). This 80s cult classic shows the above Fishbowls, plus the MAN buses that were run by CTA.
-"Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" (1985). Three of my favorite things to look at are in this movie; Helen Hunt, Sarah Jessica Parker, and the Fish they climb into.
-"The Graduate" (1967). After the interior shot, "Scarborough Fair" will never sound the same to me.
-"Police Academy 6" (1989). A big chase scene involves a cherry picker, Bigfoot, several doomed Plymouth police cars, and a blue and white Fishbowl marked "UTA" that runs over parked cars and hits a fire hydrant. Anyone know where this (and its colleagues parked behind the fence) are from?
-"Used Cars" (1980). This Kurt Russell schtick involved a multi-clunker rally, "blow 'em up" action that pre-empted a Jimmy Carter speech, a petrified Edsel driver, and Mr. Russell jumping out of a limo and running after a red and white Fishbowl roaring by.
"The Royal Tennenbaums" (2001). Haven't seen it yet, but plenty of GO Transit Fishies are swimming around in it.
-"Speed" (1994). Oh, come on; I don't even have to tell you about this one. :)
Raid the dollar rack at the video store, and enjoy all your buses!
-Fred
You also can Forrest Gump to that list(the anti-war rally sequence in DC.I alone spotted ex NYBS#1410,Red & Tan(now Rockland Coach)#93(both TDH-5305's?)and a Flxible that looked like it had the old CTC livery(brownish orange and yellow)in the old 800-829 series.
Oh yes...what a dummy I am. How could I forget my favorite scene in the movie? :) Overall, a classic and enjoyable film. One of my personal all-time favorites.
-F.
Bronx Tale with Robert De Niro with two fishbowls and an old look. The old look was recently auctioned off on E-bay.
Yes two fishbowls if you look closely. At one point De Niro pulls up with a non A/C Fishbowl and tells his son to come ride with him...He sits behind his dad and sees a lovely young black girl that he is smitten with. If you freeze the tape or DVD as soon as she looks back at him you will see an A/C unit in the back of the bus....Hollywood magic.
LOL...no, Hollywood magic would be a New Look with an A/C unit that actually WORKS...LOL!!! DeNiro is a great actor and I usually enjoy his movies; this sounds like a great one to witness, and I will try to grab it at the video store the next time I get a chance.
-F.
So, did the seller of the Old Look realize it was a movie coach? :)
Yup, they realized it was a movie coach...it was stated in the description that the bus was the one used in Bronx Tale.
The exterior stuff was filmed in NYC....the interior scenes were done out here in LA in a studio lot in an ex-Santa Monica bus.
would anyone know if yukons 8293-8315 have this same problem as the 126 st buses.
all the 8000`s at flatbush have the same problem
Okay, Wayne Johnson said that Flxible buses #4000-4202 and #4600-4727 were renumbered into the #7200s through the 7400s. Now, in the 1970s, there were Flxible buses #7000-7204, #7300-7361.
So, my question is this....Flxible buses #4000-4202 and #4600-4727 were renumbered to buses #7205-7299, #7362-7499?
I do recall seeing Flxible bus #7243 on the M10 (courtsey of BusTalk's NYC Bus Pics!). That bus must be a renumbered bus.
Now I get it!
In addition, the 4300/4400's and the 4800/4900's were renumbered to something like 6351-65XX. All those renumberings were done in order to make way for all the 4000 series RTS's arriving new into service while those older GM & Flx newlooks (formerly 4000's) were still used for service. Hope this is clears things up for you.
Thank you, it does!
According to a flyer from a reputable dealer on another board Corgi is coming out with a 1/50 scale model of the Scenicruiser. The flyer had a b/w picture of the real bus. The website just says "coming soon" with a pre-order price of $48.95. No picture yet. Stay tuned.
Was off to get my remote control repaired and passed by Flatbush Depot to see if the 8400's that 126th St were having problems were affecting FLA routes. Truth be told, i only saw 3 of the 8400's in service. Mostly saw 4400's,5000's,9300's and 9400's. Maybe they are having the same problem and hate to admit it.
B100-#358 GMCRTSII-04
B46-#7505 Remanufactured
B6-#4785 TMCRTS06
B7-#8929 NOVABUS
8400's seen: 8407,8417,8424,8426.
Meanwhile, I've rode on quite a few 8400/8500 series on the Q32 recently: 8470 8474 8484 8497 8502 8503 8514 just to name a few.
There has been more 8400/8500 series on the Q32 than any other RTS Series. And also I think just about all of these buses have been repowered. However, 95% of them are slow and rattly. But I'd prefer those than those rotten Onions from CS. Those are much worse. In fact nausiating.
#8497 Q32
There was a lot of interesting stuff to see today as I drove to work, and saw more Landover buses with bike racks. One observation that I saw that was weird was seeing a CNG on the B8. This route only has used Orion IIs, and maybe once in a while an Orion 5, 30'. Here are some others.
Landover:
bike racks: 4081, 9368, 9756(from Bladensburg), 2095
Northern:
bike racks: 2170, 8969, 3937, 8918
9744: transferred from Bladensburg, seen on a 68
2170: transferred from Southern, with a bike rack
2191: has a camera, mounted in the down position, looking a passengers boarding the bus from overhead
Southern/Annex:
bike racks: 9304(transferred from Bladensburg)
9391: has an unpainted part in the grill area, came from another bus
Western:
4305: has no bike rack and did see 3716 with one.
This has been an eventful day.
I saw the back of 3705 at the garage and was not able to see if it had a rack in the past week.
Ride-On's 5602 was on the 37 this morning, so I guess it is still up at Gaithersburg. In the past week, 5619 has not been out for some reason (it must be broken) so I have gotten 5561 (which had a really loud engine), 5612, and 5343 (which is not as good as some of the other Ride-On Gilligs, but I have had worse).
Them 5550s-5560s, except for the CNGs can get loud. I remember riding my first one, right after the Glemont extension opened and man that was one of the loudest engines I have heard. DASH have the recent Orion purchase with the same engine, and man when they get under the parking garage at the mall, boy they are vibratingly loud ( I know vibratinly is not a word). It must be the way the engines are mounted in the rear, because the Flxible buses with the same engine doesn't seem to be as loud as the Orions. The Flxibles do get loud, but not that loud.
5558 was the bus on the 37 for a pick last year and I don't recall it being as bad.
Today, 5619 was back. The panel above the rear door was open! I didn't have the digital but I had a film camera and took two pictures, which will hopefully come out. Really, all there is up there are a bunch of wires, and a black box with lights. They were green-yellow when the door was locked and red when it wasn't. I also saw the emergency release. Interestingly enough, above the left door (from the inside of the bus, closer to the front), there was a large spring. There wasn't one for the other door. I was hoping to get to see a passenger use the back door before I did although this did not happen. Most of the passengers seem to like to use the front door. I was able to glance up as I opened the door myself. I was pushing on the right door (I think, I can pay more attention tomorrow to how I do that) and saw the spring expand as the doors opeend. I am sure that by tomorrow, the panel will be closed again...
5611 was on the 23. Other than that, nothing to report or mention, other than how is it most Montgomery offices are open on Monday but the buses are on a Saturday schedule? All I can say is at least they extended the 47, because otherwise, I'd have it pretty bad.
All municipalities have always followed the Federal Gov't. So, if they're closed, that assumes the rest of the world is closed too. Working for a Gov't. contractor, I get this benefit, too, but there is plenty that will be open on Monday and unfortunately a lot of people are going to have to adjust their schedules.
I will have to check that in the Post. I think there are enough people to provide a little more service during the commuting hours. Hourly service doesn't cut it. Also, many schools in the area (public included) will be open and there are students who take the public bus.
What's so strange is that when WMATA and Ride On run on Saturday schedules, PG's transit system has regular service, which to a point doesn't count for much, since they have no Saturday service at all. One other smaller transit system has regular service, not sure who it is.
On the bike rack front Landover 2040 and 2097 now has bike racks and I saw a possible 8800 with one also, it was dark and I couldn't see the number.
Does anyone know what the cable that travels from the bus to the large mirror by the front doors on the artics, controls? Are these mirrors heated, power operated, or both?
They are power operated, I don't think the TA would EVER spend money on heated mirrors.
Thanks for responding! I still see some operators manually noving the mirrors on the artics, are the mirrors broken when they do this, or has the power feature been deactivated? Also, aren't heated mirrors a safety feature?
Heated mirrors, power mrrors. Sure they may come in brand new from the manufacturer that way, but I refuse to believe that once those features fall into disrepair would the TA repair or replace them.
Effective January 5, 2003, Route 90 (late night Roosevelt Field to Hempstead) and Route 91 (JFK Flyer-Hempstead to JFK Airport) will be discontinued. Effective November 18, 2002, service will begin on a pair of routes serving the Merrick Long Island Rail Road station, N52 and N53. They will operate in a loop formation during peak periods only, timed to connect with LIRR trains. Curiously, these same route numbers had been previously used long ago for routes in the Merrick-Bellmore area.
So what route(s) would replace the N91 JFK Flyer? And why is it being discontinued. The route needed improvement, but discontinuing, sad to see that happened. Cn you go into more description to what roads via the N 52 or N53 wwill be going on.
Never saw the N91 JFK Flyer have more then 5 people on it. It just wasn't getting the ridership. I'd rather see the buses operating where needed.
John is probably right, i.e. they killed it because of low ridership, BUT that begs the question ... how many folks are going to travel to Jamaica by LIRR to use the JFK Air Train ?
"John is probably right, i.e. they killed it because of low ridership, BUT that begs the question ... how many folks are going to travel to Jamaica by LIRR to use the JFK Air Train ?"
I don't think you can measure one by the other. The N91 took 50-something minutes from the Rockville Centre LIRR (which is only on one branch). LI Bus also didn't always grace this route with their finest equiptment either.
The AirTrain will (apparently) take about 10 minutes from Jamaica and be brand new equiptment.
CG
The Air TRain in my opinion is going to be a huge Flop.
As a LIRR daily commuter for 17 years no one is going to take a train till Jamaica and transfer to a second train to the airport with luggage especially a person who travels with a family.
They will most likely need a taxi from their home to the train station in the first place.
Its easier to just take a cab from their home to JFK and will be much faster too
Thats my opinion
Thank You
As an ex operator for New York Airport service, i'd have to agree that Air tran load factors may be slghtly disapointing. The Jamiaca JFK -lGA route was always a disappointing stop for me. I rarely picked up more than one or two people going to JFK (themot wouldfor or five on a sunday night) and many timetimespcked no one at all. Te service got so slow, that after 9/11 the Jamaica station agent was elimanated. Also spoken to many passengers going to the city including flight crews(which proberly the real taget for airtran) who said it would be inconvient to take the airtran because of a one stop ride to the city. I've had many passengers pick up the bus at the airport to catch a babylon branch train in Jamaica.
The N91 was doomed because of it being a local transit bus operation (1 hour inabus as opposed to 15 in a cab). They should have traded the 1990 orions for some NYCT express bus orions (put luggage racks in them) and changed the roue to run through elmont to hempstead . You would have gotten a slighty shorte route in mere bus friendy neighborhoods.
[The Air TRain in my opinion is going to be a huge Flop. As a LIRR daily commuter for 17 years no one is going to take a train till Jamaica and transfer to a second train to the airport with luggage especially a person who travels with a family.]
Although discussion about JFK AirTrain probably belongs on SubTalk, let me just voice my own opinion that the AirTrain is probably going to do better than most skeptics predict. As traffic on the Van Wyck and Belt around JFK continues to get worse, the incentive for many types of people who normally drive to the airport to try the AirTrain will increase.
I thought the JFK Flyer (N91) was a great idea and am disappointed to see it go. I suspect it was aimed more at employees at the airport than travelers, but in the few times I've ridden it, very few from either category accompanied me. I doubt if the equipment used had much of an effect; generally, only we bus fans care that much about the type of bus. Perhaps cruisers with luggage racks may have attraced some travelers, but I personally don't believe so.
Sid,
The cost factor is not going to help Air Train
An example: I use to live in Baldwin with my wife and child
Cost from my house to JFK via Air Train
2 tickets one way-$3.75 ( 2 people) Total-$7.50
(I do not include myself because i had a monthly ticket)
3 tickets Air Train-$5.00 each Total-$15.00
Cab ride from House to Baldwin Train Station-$10.00
Total via LIRR and Air Train-$32.50
Cost from Baldwin to JFK via Cab- $25.00 for 3 people
That's without tip
Which way would you use to get to the airport
Thank You
[Which way would you use to get to the airport]
At $65 round-trip via AirTrain and $50 round-trip via cab, I would seriously consider driving to the airport (assuming I had a car) and parking in the long-term lot for $8 per day, from where AirTrain would whisk me to my terminal!
I'm sure the economics work differently for different situations, but even with a cost differential, I believe many people are going to find the AirTrain the lesser of evils and the fastest way to get to the airport when traffic is taken into account. I don't necessarily agree with the proposed $5 per person charge to use AirTrain from Jamaica or Howard Beach, but even with that charge, I see AirTrain drawing many riders. Frankly, it's a little silly to speculate now. We'll just have to see what happens when AirTain finally opens, especially the 2nd phase of it to Jamaica.
$5 from Howard Beach? Yikes, that is a ripoff. Hope they keep the free shuttle buses.
[$5 from Howard Beach? Yikes, that is a ripoff. Hope they keep the free shuttle buses.]
The plan, as I understand it, is to discontinue the shuttle buses from Howard Beach and charge $5 for those getting on or off the AirTrain at Howard Beach. If you get off the subway at Howard Beach, it is possible to walk from there to the Long Term Parking-Lefferts Blvd. station of AirTrain (which is free), but you won't be able to cut across airport property, which leaves you a pretty big hike. The long term parking lot itself will have shuttle buses to take you to the AirTrain Long Term Parking station, as many spaces will be very far from that station. The bottom line is that JFK AirTrain will be free, unless you get off or get on at Howard Beach and Jamaica.
That sucks. That means if you want to take the A train to JFK Airport, you have to pay $5 or hike to get to the terminal. The Airtrain $5 charge should only be for trains to/from Jamaica.
At least the shuttle buses should be kept.
$5 for less than a mile to the terminal. What a ripoff. This time I'm rooting for the farebeaters at Howard Beach.
[$5 for less than a mile to the terminal. What a ripoff.]
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions, but the fact is that the distance from the Howard Beach subway station to the main airline terminals has got to be at least several miles. While much of the construction funding of the system comes from the passenger tax collected by the airport, the $5 surcharge is probably intended to support the operating expenses of the line.
Then why is no fare being charged from the long-term parking lot?
The Jamaica leg was much more expensive to build than the Howard Beach leg. Why is the Howard Beach fare the same as the Jamaica fare?
Why aren't Howard Beach passengers being informed that their fare will soon be increased by 433%?
I wonder what will happen to those Airport shuttle buses (New Flyer?). They ran pretty good, definately in too good of shape to be scrapped.
Wouldn't mind seeing them on the LI Bus HUB shuttle. The low floors would come in handy on that route, with alot of the passangers with big packages.
[I wonder what will happen to those Airport shuttle buses (New Flyer?). They ran pretty good, definately in too good of shape to be scrapped.]
There are still many Orion V high floor buses on the Newark Airport parking shuttle runs, so my guess is that some of the JFK low-floor buses may wind up at Newark, which does have a few low-floor New Flyers already. JFK will no doubt keep some of the low-floors for the shuttle to the Long-Term Parking AirTrain station, as well as in reserve if AirTrain breaks down or needs to be temporarily taken out of service.
Having very recently been on two different New Flyers (don't remember the fleet numbers) at JFK that were assigned to the Long Term Parking Shuttle, I believe it would be best to send them to NIMCO with a gravestone. Their condition was disgraceful. They ran fairly well but the body and interior looked like they had been through a war. Even to stop one of the buses, you had to scream at the driver as the bell system was out of order.
[Even to stop one of the buses, you had to scream at the driver as the bell system was out of order.]
I don't remember those buses ever having working stop signals. Even when the buses were brand new, I recollect having to yell to the driver to stop at the approaching bus shelter.
That's possible; but I saw all the passengers searching for either the pull cord or tapeswitch, even if one didn't exist. If they didn't have either, I really wonder why. Perhaps the driver was supposed to halt at each stop to see if anyone was getting off.... Good point. The bus was so crowded both ways anyhow it wouldn't have been possible for me to signal except by yelling. Very professional PA operation. If this is true, perhaps a "Yell To Stop" sign would be in order.
Were these New Flyers low floor diesel? (D40LF)
Last time I took the JFK Flyer I was the only one who got off at the airport!!!
Most major cities with rail links to their airports do not require transfers to your destination until you are in the center of the city. Examples of this are Atlanta, Washington, Chicago, and London. If AirTrain fails, it will fail because it will be too much of a hassle. I think it should have been built for subway trains but funded by the PA. At least they could have tried to make the AirTrain have a cross platform transfer at Howard Beach with the A and forget the 5 dollar thing. I hope they raise parking fees as well.
[I hope they raise parking fees as well.]
I haven't heard anything about plans to raise the parking fee at the JFK long-term lot, but the fee at the long-term lots at Newark went up after the Newark AirTrain (formerly known as the monorail) was built to serve them. Newark also has several long-term lots served by only shuttle buses, and the fee at those lots is cheaper than at the lots served by AirTrain.
The N91 never got much ridership whenever I took it. No more than 5 people, it was a real waste of service. As for the N90, never rode it. Roosevelt Field is closed late at night, I can't imagine that many people using it.
Once Airtrain opens, people going to the Airport will prefer that, a quick ride from a connection to the LIRR at Jamaica.
Still, I'll miss the N91, and definately plan on taking it one last time.
I have a feeling that the discontinuance of the N91 will spell the end of the line for the Orion V lower 600 series.
Well, they are planning to go a 100% CNG fleet.
Thanks for that info. Isn't LI Bus also supposed to be starting up N8 Valley Stream-Hempstead and N43 Freeport-Roosevelt Field soon? 4 new routes for LI Bus in such a short time would be very rare for them. Has the management philosophy changed?
CG
where did you here about these 2 routes coming into affect? I would like to see 2 new routes that both would end at Sunrise Mall and one would start at Green Acres Mall and go the whole way to Sunrise via the Sunrise Hwy. and the other route run from Long Beach to the mall via LB Road,Lincoln Ave up to Merrick Road then follow the N4 to Freeport and from there the N19 to Sunrise Mall.
It was discussed here a few months ago. See: http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=50405
I doubt LI Bus will ever have a route that uses Sunrise Hwy for any significant distance. If you think about it, it's the busiest road on the south shore, but there's only a couple stops for the northbound N1/2/3 in Valley Stream, nothing in Lynbrook, one stop for the westbound N4 in Rockville Centre, nothing in Baldwin, a couple stops for the N62 in Freeport and then nothing until Massapequa Park.
Running a bus along Sunrise between Green Acres and Sunrise Mall would be a fast run for people travelling between the two malls, but not as convenient as using Merrick Road for passengers who want to go anywhere else along the route.
Then I guess only using Merrick Road would be the best thing to do
Joe,
First, I do not know if you read it but my apologizes to you for the last arguement we had.
Second, How come those bus routes are not on the MTA LI Bus Map (N90, N91, N94 and N95)?
Third, why Merrick LIRR Station? Is that the busiest station on the South Shore? What would happen to the N51 going through that area?
Thanks for your time.
Well, I'm not Joe but...
Merrick LIRR is one of the busiest stations on the Babylon (south shore) Branch along with Rockville Centre, Freeport, Wantagh and Massapequa.
Rockville Centre and Freeport already have loop busses and also other frequent service to their train stations.
Merrick has only the N51, but service is very infrequent and it also goes only as far south as Merrick Road. The residential section of Merrick goes probably about 1.5 miles south of Merrick Road and this is (I am guessing) where one of the routes will probably go. The other will probably be a loop north of Sunrise Highway.
CG
Due to an unintended error on my part, I failed to mention a third route that will be inaugurated, the N43 (Freeport -Nassau Community College-Roosevelt Field), on a 7-day basis.
The two new Merrick loop routes, N52 and N53, will both operate north of Merrick Station, serving different areas of Merrick and North Merrick. The equipment will consist of new vehicles similar to the paratransit units, but with mylar roller destination signs, in the 2100-series. There will be no changes to the N51 (Roosevelt Field-Merrick).
Also, an unconfirmed rumor is floating about that there will also be an N88 (Chinese Restaurant Loop), operated on Sundays only, starting from and returning to Sea Cliff/Glen Cove, stopping only at some of Long Island's best take out Chinese restaurants, with the buses driven by attractive female Oriental operators and staffed by inside information hostesses or the same heritage.
A second rumor envisions a similar type service stopping at all Wendy's restaurants.
The equipment will consist of new vehicles similar to the paratransit units, but with mylar roller destination signs, in the 2100-series. There will be no changes to the N51 (Roosevelt Field-Merrick).
I recall a similar series of cutaway buses used on the JFK Flyer on the one time I rode it a few years ago. I'm still amazed that LI Bus would use roll-signs instead of electronic signs on cutaway buses (though, if you've seen some of SEPTA's cutaways, that might not be a bad idea - on a few of those buses, the signs have been removed).
Oooh, that's a good one!! LOL!
N88 Szechuan Express "for the best Roast Pork around!"
So regular buses are not serving these routes?
And you also forgot a 4th Route that be new on 1/5/2002. The N8 Valley Stream-Hempstead Line
Wrong. No such service is to begin as of this date.
Then when the N8 would start?
What's up with these bus routes?When did they start running? I never knew they exsisted till now when I checked the LIBus schedules.They only run during school days like a certain X32 bus does.
The N65/66 has been around for many years. I'm not as certain about the N67, though. That one may be newer -- a lot of students from Roosevelt started attending the Catholic high schools about 5 years ago when the Roosevelt district was getting really bad.
CG
What buses run on the N65, N66 and N67?
I know that on the N66, they tend to run the Orion Vs Diesels (lower 600's).
There also two Flushing "school trippers" that start in the afternoon at 2:35pm by Plandome road (Manhasset). It is listed on the bus schedule. The run skips Great Neck LIRR. I always see diesel Orion V's on there, sometimes signed as "special".
I could be wrong, but I have this recollection that the JFK Flyer was staffed by a different category of LI Bus driver, with a scale of a paratransit driver. (No, I don't work for them. This is from conversations.) I was under the impression that the high-numbered routes were in this separate category, and that is why smaller vehicles were used at first. I have been on the Flyer at least four times, and my general impression is that it finds every pothole in Queens, then visits the post office. In Nassau, Merrick Road is slow. Yet, once I got home from my Los Angeles flight for 75 cents, and another time I routed myself from Brooklyn borough hall on a Fun Pass. (LI Bus senior fare begins at age 60, thanks to Tom Gulotta. That brings up another topic: I think some of these routes came out of direct, specific funding from Nassau County.) Joe McMahon
Day # 3 of the stalemate between the union and 126th Street Depot management began just as the previous two days did. Approximately 20 more drivers were taken out of service for refusing to drive the 80xx and 84xx series buses. Limited service was again suspended on the M15 and it looked like things would remain status quo. Then sometime around 1:30 pm an agreement was reached. 126th Street Depot management agreed to replace the mirrors on the 80xx and 84xx buses as quickly as possible and to form a joint committee with the union to analyze any accident a driver might have with one of these buses that has not yet been refitted with the new mirror. Based on this agreement the union agreed to allow the 80xx and 84xx buses back into service. Limited service was restored on the M15 almost immediately and things slowly got back to normal. Drivers who were taken out of service will have to go through an arbitration process in order to get back the pay they lost during this dispute. It was unfortunate that the riding public was inconvenienced by this situation but the end result is that both they and the drivers will be a lot safer with the greater visibility offered by the new mirrors.
Was the service disruption really necessary? Why didn't they stage a rally outside the depot instead and invite the news media? I believe that would have been far more effective. They got the problem solved, but at great inconvience to their customers.
JD
I can't argue with your point except to say that if the buses had been allowed in service then there would have been no incentive for the TA to negotiate a deal to resolve the situation.
Let me make sure I understand. The busses are now safe to drive because an agreement has been reached to fix the mirrors at some time in the future?
I agree that the situation is bizarre. Unfortunately the 126th Street drivers are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. If you defy the union and drive the buses in question then you are treated as a pariah. If you defy management then you're taken out of service.
Were you one of the bus drivers who sat out or you drove and witness others protest?
I was lucky and dodged a bullet. During the three days of the dispute I was never assigned a 80xx or 84xx series bus. Ironically today I was assigned one with the short arm mirror and spent the afternoon driving it on the M15. Hopefully the next time I see it it will have been retrofitted with the new mirror.
Was the M15 running normally yesterday afternoon? I was waiting around 5:20 at 86th and 2nd for a local; after ten minutes I gave up and got on the third consecutive limited. I have a feeling the second bus was supposed to be a local -- do any limiteds at that time terminate at Houston?
Service on the M15 yesterday was pretty much back to normal. I can sympathize with your long wait for a local bus. It seems that there are at least twice as many limited buses in service as there are local buses. My run has me making all limited trips except the last trip and that trip is the heaviest of the day. There are limiteds that terminate at Houston but I don't know the specific times off the top of my head.
Thanks. I looked at the scheduled and it appeared that, at the time I was waiting, limited headways were about 6 minutes and local headways were about 5-6 minutes.
It wasn't a big deal for me -- the limited only added a two-block walk -- but the people waiting at the local stops didn't look happy. I was a bit annoyed that the B/O insisted on staying as far to the right as he could, even though traffic in the other lanes was moving faster -- it's not like he had to stop every few blocks. The bus had about half of its seats filled -- it would have been a lot more crowded as a local.
Do locals ever become limiteds (if they're running late, say)? Do limiteds ever become locals (if there's a long gap in local service, say)? I'm more familiar with what's done on the subway front, but the same issues apply here.
>"It wasn't a big deal for me -- the limited only added a two-block walk -- but the people waiting at the local stops didn't look happy. I was a bit annoyed that the B/O insisted on staying as far to the right as he could, even though traffic in the other lanes was moving faster -- it's not like he had to stop every few blocks. The bus had about half of its seats filled -- it would have been a lot more crowded as a local."<
I agree, B/O's tend to stay in the right lane on a bus with KTD routes often, especially the M15, they go real slow and like 5 buses play "follow the leader". To me, I think B/O's are driving much slower[even in open roads] than they used to nowadays, even buses assigned as LTD's. Sometimes, I feel that I should just take the local to where I want to go.
Bus bunching is unfortunate but sometimes it is unavoidable. Yesterday was a good case in point. The northbound FDR drive was shut down at 96th Street due to a bad accident. All traffic was diverted onto First Avenue. Consequently all northbound M15's destined for 125th Street were delayed. Many of these same buses had to return southbound on Second Avenue. The dispatchers did the best they could to adjust service but there is just so much they could do. Of course a little better cooperation among the drivers would also help to alleviate the "follow the leader" syndrome.
Let me give you some advice. If you're not traveling that far, i.e. 14th Street to 23rd Street, you're better off taking the local. Everyone and their mother wants the limited so in the time it takes the limited to load up the local has practically arrived at the destination. Limiteds are good if you're traveling a longer distance such as from 14th Street to 72nd Street. In that case the limited will always catch up to and pass the local. Overall you're only saving an average of 5 minutes of travel time by taking the limited as opposed to the local anyway.
I was going from 86th to 66th, so I wanted the local to avoid a two-block walk from 68th. I gave up with the third consecutive limited, which was very empty. If it had stopped at two or three local stops, it would have doubled its load.
This was Thursday in the afternoon rush. Was that when the FDR was closed? Maybe that had something to do with the unusual spacing.
In case you are not aware NYCT wants their drivers to stay to the extreme right ALL the time, if the operatoter goes into any other lane besides the extreme right traffic lane, it is at their own risk if anything happens. It actually does not matter if it is an express or limited or a local, the right lane of traffic is where the bus belongs according to the TA diving rules.
Is that a recent change? For a few months in 1992, I rode the M2 Limited every weekday from 78th Street to 8th Street and it changed lanes as traffic conditions deemed appropriate.
Transit rules state all buses are supposed to stay to the extreme right as much as possible except to pass parked cars or other obstructions, regardless of what type of service they are running. Of course, it is another one of those rules with a double standard. The Limiteds do need to move to the left to pass the slower traffic and the local buses. However any right side accident that takes place when the bus is not in the extreme right lane deems the bus operator at fault, unless the bus is making a left turn. Bottom line: stay to the right, run late and behind schedule. Move left and have accident, get blamed for having a preventable accident by not being to the right. Go figure...
BIG AL
It goes with the lousy right side mirrors: the farther to the left you are on either First or Second Ave. the more you have to use the mirror to get back to the curb lane! BTW: I hope this mirror issue was not simply swept under the rug and forgotten about by all except the drivers themselves. Let's get it solved now!
Them Drivers have to be watchful for that right side of the bus. That's the most dangerous side of the bus.
It's possible that the driver was ahead of schedule and was trying to get back on time. Sometimes, especially if traffic conditions are good, the schedule allows for too much running time. The general rule of thumb is that you should be no more than 2-3 minutes ahead of schedule at a designated timepoint.
It's not uncommon for a local bus that is extremely late to be turned into a limited. On the other hand it's not very common for a limited to be turned into a local. There would have to be an extreme delay in local service for that to happen.
If a bus is running ahead of schedule, why not turn it into a local, at least for a while? A slow limited doesn't help anyone; it might as well make stops while it's moving slowly.
But I'm afraid that's exactly what's done on the subway with expresses and locals, at least on the lines I ride with any regularity. It's very rare for an express to be sent local to fill in a gap in local service, and when the local finally comes, it often bypasses its busiest stops. I experienced the tail end of a 30-minute gap in local service on the 1/9 about a month ago (scheduled service is every 5 minutes or so), and when the train finally showed up, it stopped at my stop (the third busiest non-transfer local station on the line) but it bypassed the busiest and next-to-busiest.
You turn a Ltd. bus into a local and you better have a weapon for protection in your pocket because the passengers will want to shove the steering wheel up your you-know-what. I used to do plenty of limited trips when I drove the Q85 in Queens and even if I made one stop that wasn't a limited stop, I would have to hear the people crying out, "Hey, this is the Limited. What are you doing?" and all sorts of phrases that would want to make me drive slow to piss them off and get even.
It's very unusual for a Ltd. bus to be ahead of schedule to the point where it would have to drag the line or wait at any given limited bus stop. In fact, the running times on the limiteds out of Jamaica depot are so tight, that you really have to keep the pedal to the metal to stay on time and not run behind schedule. And if you have one of the slower 4000 series RTS's, forget about it.
BIG AL
All I can tell you is that, in this case, there were only a dozen or so passengers on this bus (the third limited in four or five minutes, with no locals in at least ten) and about half a dozen people waiting at each local stop. At least one of the dozen on the bus (i.e., me) would have preferred a local but didn't want to wait all day for one. Anyone who has a problem can be given a continuation transfer and can wait for the next limited.
Limited service is great, but not if the local stops are starved.
But put yourself into the shoes of a person who is already on a limited stop bus who hears that all of a sudden it is now a local. Perhaps you as a civilised person would accept this, but other passengers may not.
But, once again, there were only about a dozen people on the bus, and they could have been given continuation transfers if they didn't want to stay on the local. There were half a dozen people standing at each local stop who had no recourse but to wait even longer for a local. The gap was over 10 minutes; scheduled headways on the local were 5-6.
The way I read this is if the dispatcher does not like you personality wise, he would have assigned you an 8000-8400 knowing that you would refuse to pull out because of the unsafe mirrors. Under this senario, all the drivers who they don't like would be taken out of service. Correct?
I can't verify that but I'm sure that it did occur.
What about other depots? Will they change all the buses that have this problem? Flatbush, Gleason, etc? Ulmer Park does not have any, but earlier this week when this started there was somebody measuring the right side mirror arms on all the buses anyway.
I'm sure the problem will be addressed system wide. NYCTA drivers have been complaining about these mirrors for years. Their pleas fell upon deaf ears at both the TA and Local 100 of the TWU. Finally a new leadership is in place at Local 100 who is willing to confront the TA and get things done.
Can you drive an articulated bus on a normal bus driver's license (Class B CDL)? I'm assuming you can, as it's not really a combination vehicle. I'm just curious if you're required to obtain anything other than further training (which I suppose would be required by your employer, not by law). Also, how much more difficult is a 60ft. artic to drive than a regular 40ft. bus?
You can operate an artic with a class B license. They are actually easier to handle as compared to a 40ft. bus because the first part is only 35ft. , and the trailer takes care of itself. My instructors showed me that whatever the middle wheel does the trailer wheel will do the same. The most difficult part about operating an artic is backing it up. You can quickly lose control and lock up the differential. My experiences are with NJT Volvos.
Troy
I was kind of guessing that the trailer just followed the rear wheels. How is the drivetrain set up in most artics? Does the engine power the middle wheels or the trailer wheels? On the pictures I've seen it looks like the engine is sometimes in the back, but I would think powering trailer wheels only would make for very strange handling. That said, I'd really like to take a 60ft. Prevost out for a spin.
Nice pic.
That would be some interesting sight to see if MCI decided to do the same as Prevost and we started seeing I60s on the Streets of NYC
At one point articulated were referred to as pushers and pullers. The pushers are those in which the engine is in the conventional rear location driving the last axle. These include the NABI, New Flyer and Neoplans.
Pullers that I know of are the MAN and Volvo in which the engine is under the floor of the front section and the middle wheels are the drive wheels. On these buses the third axle has only two tires and it steers to track in the same path as the drive axle.
The artics that were built by GMDD and the RTS prototype were also pusher types.
Wayne
Really? Hmm, how long does it take for completing Artic training? I'd imagine with that backing up issue with them, it'd take months.
I was artic trained in an hour and a half. The Instructor took us out on an artic from Gun Hill, there were 4 of us. We did turns in Co-Op city, then drove on I-95 to Westchester Ave, were we took it under the El. We were supposed to get 2 hours, but since he went by last name, I was last. How ever I like the artic over RTS and Orions.
In the snow the New Flyer really do not do well, in Febuary of 2000 I was stuck on Fordham Road for about 3 hours unable to move due to the rear wheels (Power) slipping.
At NJT artic training takes 4 days. The 1st day is spent getting the feel of the bus on the training course. The next 3 days are spent on the road getting a feel of the area you will be working in.
Troy
Well, Well!! An hour of training with 4 drivers?? In Westchester, 2 drivers go out with one Trainer for 9 hours!! An that was just for the recently purchased Neoplan articss. Westchester has been operating artics (MAN's) since 1983. In fact, some former MABSTOA drivers, now driving in Westchester, could not believe the amount of emphasis that Westchester puts into training drivers.
Regarding the trailer wheels, the old MAN's had a single trailer wheel that turned with and opposite of the front wheels. The trailer wheels on the new Neoplan artics (duals) don't turn. Drivers are trained that the rear duals follow the middle duals with slightly less clearance. (This is called "in-tracking"). So drivers cannot assume the trailer duals will just follow the middle duals, especially in tight quarters.
By the way, a CDL Class B will suffice driving an artic.
Compared to NJT 9 hours is nothing. Try 4 days of artic training.
troy
Saw this bus on the M2 Limited today with a REPAINT! I was like say what? A 1986 RTS that's scrap-bound gets a brand new paint job to it.
Ad is in the front only.
I was like SAY WHAT???!!! WHY???
Looks good though. Be on the lookout for it.
#4307 M2
Well remember the 1981 and 1982 GMC Model T8J-204 RTS buses. They all got the new MTA Logos and a fresh paint job, THEN was scrapped less than a year later.
MTA = Money Thrown Away
MTA = No Common Sense
OH! And expect Several Service Cuts due to budget!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
>"MTA = Money Thrown Away
MTA = No Common Sense"<
LMAO, nice motto. If they actually decide to keep the 86's, '87's and 88's[which I doubt], it would help the system and keep quality buses on the road.
"OH! And expect Several Service Cuts due to budget!"
If there is cuts, I HOPE it is not as bad as the 1995 cuts.
Why...what happened in 1995?
What a waste. Not only of a good bus, but of time and resources. What, pray tell, will replace the 1986 RTSes?
What else is new?
#4307 M5
MTA = Must Take Automobile
What's the deal with this subject line?
BIG AL
Netscape did it again with its password recollection feature. I don't think I was the only one with this problem on the 7.0 and it probably won't be the last.
I have no clue what you're talking about. How could netscape cause you to make an error on the subject line inside a website?
BIG AL
I experienced a similar thing with Netscape 7 also. What happened was... When you make your first post Netscape 7 will save that particular subject and use it on future posts even if it's a different thread.
Wayne
Yea that happen to me before.That's why i don't use Netscape 7 no more!
I can't believe that this piece of crap is still on the road. I thought it was scrapped a long time ago. In the summer of 2000 I was working on the M31 and it seemed that I was assigned this wreck at least twice a week. The bus was a total dog and made for a long day. They should just junk it and all the other tired old RTS's and start bringing in new state of the art equipment like every other city in the U.S. has.
I agree. But where are the Onion 7's and where is the 2nd Artic Order?
#5509 M15
#6365 BX19
#7560 B61
These 24-meter (almost 75ft.) Van Hool double artics are being built for GVU in the Netherlands.
Nice pics - interesting on how these would handle the turns here if they were placed on streets of NYC.
Plus they have the rear window - a plus.
Today is a sad day for me. I did not get a job in the MTA-NYCT. I wanted to work for Customer Relations near the East New York Bus Depot in Brooklyn, but I was told by someone at Public Affairs office in Downtown Brooklyn that the MTA-NYCT is under a hiring freeze. I forgot all about it. A college gradute whose goal was to work for the MTA has been shattered. My goal was to work for the MTA-NYCT because I loved it so much. I thought about being a bus driver but why go to college for that? I do not want to work for a private company because of the possible takeover in the next few years by the MTA.
If there is anybody with connections at the MTA-NYCT who can contact me about ANY kind of job openings in Customer Relations OR any other office job, please let me know. I would give out my e-mail address but the last time I did that I was a victim of harassment (repeative e-mails). So respond and I'll look up you e-mail address by clicking on your name here at BT.
Some of you guys I consider my friends and I was just wondering if you guys can help me. If not, I understand.
Thanks for your time. Hope to hear from anyone of you guys soon.
If the MTA is under a hiring freeze, you are not gonna get any "inside" position, HOWEVER there is several Civil Service test coming out for 2003, including Train Operator. The freeze is more than likely caused by this budget crunch that the MTA is in right now.
If you got to www.mta.info and click on the employement section, you'll find all the information you need!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks!
Sorry to hear that, "Nova Bus" but yes, unfortunately, the MTA started the hiring freeze just this week due to the budget crunch. Don't be crushed though, its not your fault and I hope you do get something in the MTA in the future. Sorry, but I do not know of any job openings[I do not work in the MTA].
i have a college degree in psychology and worked as a welfare caseworker before becoming a nyct bus operator for 22 years. the job pays well and i now enjoy a decent pension. the test for b/o will be given soon. think about it.
I have my BBA in Human Resource Management and worked in the field for about a year before becoming a bus operator. I have no regrets and I enjoy what I am doing now. Later down the road I will be able to get a supervisor/management position. As a matter of fact one was already offered to me but I turned it down (with all the o/t I make more money than a supervisor). I agree with Hudson and definitely think you should consider it.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
Thanks "Flatbush41" for your kind words! You and The "TOR-nado" have somewhat cheered me up!
I don't know about anything in NYC, but I do know Valley Metro here in Roanoke, VA is hiring a full-time dispatcher. You may call them at (540)982-0305 or go to www.valleymetro.com for more information.
-Fred
How about this concept.
Quenns Surface Corp., has a sophisticated customer service dept. Try to get an application at least (718-445-3100). Then if there is a takeover in the near future, you would probably be retained, and in the MTA.
Their address is 128-15 28th Avenue, Flushing,NY 11354. Go for it!! and good luck.
I was in Howell, NJ, yesterday and learned that there are still approximately 20 MC-9A's and B's in service there (although they are due to be replaced shortly). Are MC-9's still in service out of any of the other NJ Transit garages? I certainly see fewer and fewer of them. I do see some still running with some of the privates, especially the Coach USA companies, but wonder how long that will last. As a related question, does anyone know how many more buses are still to be delivered under the huge NJ order with MCI?
As far as I can tell, Oradell, Market Street, Meadowlands, and Wayne are 100% MCI D4000/4500s. I believe Newton Avenue and Washington Twp are also complete. Lakeland, ShortLine, Leisure Line, DeCamp, Olympia, Carefree, Trans-Bridge, Nate's, and Community are all fully replaced as well. I'm guessing Lakeland will get some D4000Ns for their Holland Tunnel run - there is a gap in their current numbering of 9 units, and they are currently using some elderly 96A3s for that setrvice. Academy, Rockland Coaches, and Suburban are in need of a lot of new MCIs, as are NJT Howell and Egg Harbor garages.
Of the MCIs ordered, 975 are in, 269 are scheduled for 2003, and the last 116 are due in 2004 for a total of 1360. Replaced will have been 1115 MC9s, 119 Eagles, 25 Volvo B10M suburbans, and about 100 1989 Flx Metro suburbans.
The replacements for the remaining 1989 Flxibles are scheduled to go to bid in a few months. Like the MCIs, NJT will need a handful of 96-inch suburbans for Holland Tunnel service from Jersey City and Bayonne points - the only builder offering a 96-inch transit-based suburban is Neoplan - and with them winning the artic bid which includes suburban artics, they seem to have the inside track.
saw mc9 5124 in absecon evidently still operating out of egg harbor.
Wait a minute...I thought they were rehabbing the 1989 Flxibles? What happened?!?
-F.
The 1994s are getting rehabbed at the moment - engine swap from the Cummins C8.3 to the electronic ISC version, LED exterior light conversion, new interior, bodywork and repaint...
The 1989s were supposed to get rebuilt, but I think they found the money to place the new order. NJT would just as soon rid themselves of the Flxes from a business standpoint - OEM parts are at the whim of MCI, and as the numbers decline through replacement, there will be less need for MCI to continue parts support at the same level. NJT has never kept a Flxible, save a few stragglers, more than 14 years:
- 1976 Flx New Look replaced by 1986-88 (1980) Flx 870 NYCTA rehabs and 1989 Flx Metro
- 1981 Flx 870 replaced by 1994 Flx Metro
- 1983 Flx Metro replaced by 1995-6 Nova RTS
- 1986-88 Flx 870 rehabs replaced by 1999-2000 Nova RTS
- 1989 Flx Metro - in service
- 1994 Flx Metro - in service
How nice. The only rehabbed D's here in South Jersey are 1869-71. I have not seen a rehabbed 3700 yet. (or maybe, but they all look like shit). When will I see a rehabbed 3700?
Thewre are rehabbed 37xx suburbans at Market Street and Hilton in north Jersey. The LED taillights are a dead giveaway.
The engines are not being changed out, they are just being Overhauled by NJT Maintenance. As for new interiors, there is a select few that have recieved D4000 style seating patterns but in the brown, blue, cream colors save for a few that did recieve the actually conversion to purple (Buses #1802 and 3785), But other than that they just replaced the cushion and fabrics on the seats. The floors recieved a good scrubbing and waxing. The Rehab basically focused on mechanics and undercarriages on the METRO "D" buses.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Oh...I thought it was bus #3775, not 3785...I guess that one, too...I knew I rode one of them on the 108 some time ago...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
"Flx Overhauls Looking Good"
Two questions.
When you say D4500 seating do you mean seats that recline or just new cushions? I'm asking because I was riding 3785 this morning on the 107 my new bus route. The seats don't recline.
Second how many people fit on the Metro D's? Without the back door it looks like they are close to the seating on a MCI, am I right on this one??
I believe the Metro d's with the one door suburbans seat 49 just like the Mci's. No the seats do not recline on these buses, neither do the seats on the Metro b's. However the seats are much more comfortable being those buses were all rehabbed. The Mci's are the only buses with reclining seats.
Tony M.
Meetro D suburbans are 45-passenger. Metro D transits and RTS 40-footers are 43. Metro B suburbans range between 45 and 47 depending on age and whether they have lifts. The original units had 47, later units were respaced with more legroom.
I just wish that they were able to do something with those annoying humps in the back of the bus. Passengers paying $121 shouldn't have to ride in a seat made for an 10 year old. At least the Metro D's I have been on don't leak like the B's. When those were on the 190 people almost had to keep rain gear around on a stormy day. The water would just come right in the bus.
The size of the seats is the biggest problem with any bus of that type. With that said, that is not the fault of the operating company. You can't build new buses much wider than what is already out there. Making larger seats and having them 3 across instead of 4 will greatly reduce per bus capacity necessitating more buses needed to carry the same number of people. The companies do not wish to increase operating costs unless you want a 25% increase in fares so you can have 25% more room per seat.
Wow...bet those Flxes will look sharp with all those LED lights and everything else. When will this happen?
-F.
Here is the Interior Before....
Here is the Interior After (This is with the standard seats, I haven't uploaded the photos with the swirly seats yet)
We basically know the exterior of a Metro D well Here is the Exterior After.....
I focused on the back shots because of the LEDs
Regards,
Trevor Logan
OK. Now can you explain 1869-71? The cloth pattern of the seats are quite different from the ones pictured. (BTW- these buses are assigned to South Jersey).
i notice the lights in the interior of the bus is different.
Wow....the interior looks much brighter...and the back of that bus just looks brand new! Kind of like what a 2002 Flx Metro would look like!
-F.
The LEDs are really cool :)
Yes they are. However, I am more used to the wraparounds seen on most Flxible Metros. They just fit the styling so much better; if only the LED people used that design...why can't it be done?
-F.
I don't know, the circle tail lamps looks soooo much more attractive on a Flxible METRO.
Regards,
Trevor
Hmm...never seen them in action, but they must look good lit up.
-F.
Nice! They need to come out to Suffolk County and fix ours.
-D-
Why? What's the matter with the Flxes at ST? Haven't got to ride them yet, but I always liked theirs.
-F.
Our museum recently acquired a busload of reclining seats from an NJT MC-9; they are brown with multicolor cloth inserts, and still have the blue floor lights. We're not sure what to do with them yet as all we have are transits, but we may bolt them into a 1947 Mack C-41 that we hope to restore one day to operating condition. It has not run in 40 years, so another thought is to repower it with a Cummins.
-F.
I got the new Montauk schedule for 11/18 to 12/15 and it discusses the bus shuttles that Joe Saitta was referring too. On the schedule, it shows TWO different times at Southampton....11:28 at Bridgehampton and 12:43 at Southampton. Huh? It takes an hour and 15 minutes to Southampton? Then, another one....3:56 at Bridgehampton and 3:11 at Southampton? Now, I'm thinking that this could be a typo. However, there must be an explanation.
It's a typo. Take a look at the next stop - Hampton Bays is at 12:01.
Interesting that East Hampton and Bridgehampton are at the same times. It looks like they're using 2 sets of busses -- one from Montauk, Amagansett and E.H. then express to Speonk, the other starts at Bridgehampton and runs local to Speonk.
CG
Wow, what a treat. The City of Wichita (KS) is selling several of their retired 1983 Grumman Metro 35-footers on eBay. These have the Flxible Metro-style "grille" with the Grumman nameplate above; all are 6V92-powered units in various stages of condition and are at a starting bid of $400 per coach. I hope they all go to good homes.
-F.
So do I Flxible. I check E-bay all the time to see what buses are on there. Hey I bought my Dodge conversion van off e-bay.:) Maybe next time I'll get a bus.:)
Wow...tell me more about your van; I was born and raised on Dodges and Flxibles, so I turned out alright! :)
Speaking of which, I am now in the process of restoring an example of each that I grew up in; a 1975 Dodge Dart, and a 1976 Flxible New Look. What a retro ride those things are for me!
-F.
I'd love to buy one of those things, but am between jobs at the moment. Maybe one day, but just not right now...:(
-F.
Tuesday, when everyone was voting for who would be their next govenor or would be their representative in their state legislations or Congress, Virginia voters in the north and in the Hampton Roads area were able to vote for something else. They could vote on whether to raise the sales tax from either .05% or .1% to put some money towards roads and transit, and both lost.
In Northern Virginia, the vote was to raise the sales tax only in Northern Virginia from 4.5% to 5.0%, with the .5% used to build roads and help pay for transit. If voted yes, the transit projects that would have been built would have include the rail extension to Dullus Airport and beyond, purchase buses for WMATA as well as for the local bus systems, such as Fairfax Connector and PRTC. Well, it went down 55% no and 45% yes. Some might have voted for the tax if more went towards transit (would have 60% roads and 40% transit), which I firmly agree should have been. This now means that not only will they have to find the money to pay for the Dullus Airport rail extension, they (the Northern VA governments) would have to find money in already cash strapped budgets to purchase rail vehicles (WMATA was planning to purchase anyway for the Largo Extension), and buses for WMATA and Fairfax Connector, in which the latter is so cash strapped, they had to cut back some service and to cut off one route.
As for the Hampton Roads tax increase (I guess from 4.5% to 5.5%) it went down to a worse defeat losing 62% no to 38% yes. It looks like this one was supposed to go more towards transit, such as expanding service and more bus purchases. If I am correct, transit in Hampton Roads recently went from two or more seperate systems, combining into one.
Transit in VA didn't have a good day at the polls Tuesday, in which all will pay when they are stuck in traffic for about two hours cursing at the fact that there should have been more transit, then realizing they should have voted for it in terms of a .5% tax increase on Tuesday November 5, 2002.
What a damned shame. If NoVa and Hampton Roads did not get increased funding, I assume the same goes for Southwest Virginia as well. I only wonder what this means for Valley Metro and Blacksburg Transit.
On the bright side, if HRT lacks funding for new buses, could this mean that their 1991 Flxible Metros could get a new lease on life? :)
-F.
Well under HRT's plans they were planning to use the funds to establish grounds on their rail link. Southside, however gets the worse blow out of this, because that extra funds was to help increase service on many routes. Just recently in July there was a community meeting on both areas that saw new routes or rerouted routes in Va Beach and some service imprvements in other areas. I can see now what happends in December - more cuts.
I see; that will hurt them for sure. We had a community meeting a couple weeks ago about transit improvements in the Roanoke Valley; I brought up a lot of valid points, and many ideas shared echoed similar thoughts of mine (i.e. fares, stop shelters, trolleys, Express service for regular routes, bike racks, OTR coach shuttles to connect Roanoke and Blacksburg via I-81, etc.) Many wonderful ideas were brought up, but it all boils down to what funds are available.
On a lighter note, one of the head guys from the organization was so taken by my insight and knowledge of transit that he offered me a job; if all goes well, I may become a Regional Planner. :)
-F.
Good for you. Knowledge is power. If only you could get a job as the bus purchaser or Roanoake Valley Transit. Those Flxible Metros wouldn't go anywhere for a long while.
Actually, Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) was a Flxible fleet up until 1994; the 1976 New Looks and the 1979 870s that once dominated the streets were replaced by an all-Gillig fleet at that time. The Gilligs started slowly creeping in around 1988, when they got their first bid. VM wanted Flx Metros, but the bid came up high. :(
Blacksburg Transit are the ones with the Flx Metros; as I said befire, those are used as trippers for the Virginia Tech home games. At the end of the season, they go bye-bye. Regular routes have become an all-New Flyer affair already. Their story? In 1996, Blacksburg, then mostly Metros, had more on order, but unfortunately, Flxible shut down before their August build date.
As a result, they had to go onto a two-year waiting list before they finally got some New Flyers in 1998. A whole fleet of 2002s arrived early this year to replace the RTS fleet, and eventually, the beloved Flx Metros. BT also had some Flx New Looks and 5303s as well until a few years ago.
However, if I was the bus purchaser there, they would have ALL stayed.
-F.
Hey that is great!! Good Luck I hope you get. As for the Hampton Roads Region, there is more loses to be encountered here. under that Referendum there was projects that as to expand the Midtown (Portsmouth) Tunnel from a one tube two lane roade to two tubes four lanes, and another Bridge - Tunnel via I -564 and VA 164. There "were" good ideas. I guess it is true in an article I read, VA does not care about the traffic problems!!!
This is so true, yet Virginians are just as apt to bitch about 5:00 traffic as they are to say we don't need transit funding. :( Morons!
-F.
The anti tax folks sure cast that shadow of a doubt in a lot of people. I thought for sure Arlington and Alexandria would have voted overwhelmingly yes due to the fact that it is the more urban part of No. VA than any of the other counties (Fairfax, Prince William, Loudon). The lines at my polling place were very long at 8:30 AM when I was there.
I'm not sure how I feel. I did vote yes for the tax, but it was a tough decision to make. The big picture was that only .5% more would be charged for any purchases, but, the problem is that the local governments are so irresponsible with their funding, that who knows where that money really would have gone to. From what I'm hearing, the Dulles extension wasn't even part of the reason for this increase, but the overall wellbeing of transit is, and that's what will suffer down the line.
I hear now this could cause some businesses to choose other places to move rather than relocate here, but is that really bad? Maybe that means that there will be less sprawl. Its ridiculous to head out to parts of middle of nowhereville Farifax/Prince William County and have as bad traffic as there is on Rockville Pike. This tax increase would have been win win and lose lose at the same time as well will be the defeat. I think both sides of the argument are hiding something, but time will tell what type of remedy they come up with.
I was hearing things too such as there was no guarentee that any of the tax would go to transit. I think at the rate things are going on your side of the river, the tax could have gone places other than roads as well, since it seems they don't have the money to keep libraries and the DMVs open.
I tell ya, its a mess over here now. I don't know what's going to be next if things don't get better. I didn't really think things were that bad, but I guess they're cutting back on these before they have to cut into bigger public services.
I bet the state could raise gas taxes or cigarette taxes and they could divert that to transportation. That could be a last resort. Right now, VA has one of the lower gas tax rates in the area.
This is very true. When I went to Grand Rapids, MI to visit my family this summer, I was shocked to see gas prices in upwards of 1.59 or more for regular, and my relatives were amazed at the average Roanoke price of 1.25. That was bargain basement to them!
Perhaps two things would arise from a slight gas tax increase in Virginia; one, transit systems could increase service, or two, people will balk at the new price so much, they'll say "Screw the car; I'll ride the bus. It's cheaper!". After all, Virginians do not like to spend money, so it's a win-win situation.
Of course, I may be wrong...:)
-F.
We would hope that they would relocate near to Metro stops so that even if they do built it, no new roads would have to be built, just ride the rail or the bus and BAM! you are there. P.G. has a lot of space around Metro stations that would love to have the development.
Yeah, the whole Ballston-Rosslyn corrider here in Arlington is an excellent example how transit can be used to attract residential, office and retailers. PG County so needs that right now. I remember way back in the 70's when JC Penny was to go into PG Plaza, before Woodies closed and turned into one, but the owners decided to build it in Laurel. It was a typical racist thing back in those days figuring those in Laurel were better suited for their store. There is a ton of open land near those stops, New Carrollton, Landover, Greenbelt that could really benefit from transit already there, plus good highway access. It would make good use of great cross county bus routes such as the 87, 88 and even the B30.
I'll bet that was a wonderful place to be in the 70s, what with all the Flxible and GM New Looks still running around. I love those.
-F.
The GM and Flxible New Looks were dominate well into the 90s, by the mid 90s, you started to see less of them and the last of the New Looks were retired in 2000, replaced by the Orion 6s and the 2100-2200 series Orion 5s. One GM New Look is parked in Landover, hoping that, that bus would be saved for the historical fleet. It is amazing that the New Looks outlasted the Neoplans (the 40 footers), the AMGs, the 5000 series MANNs and were retired with the GM RTSs, and retired one year before the Gilligs. After the 5100s are fully replaced, the oldest buses will be what is left of the 8700s, which probably all are the rehabbed ones. These were running starting in December of 1986.
Wow...I need to get back up there to ride those 8700s before I miss out on those too. I vaguely remember seeing Gilligs there, so they must not have seen a lot of service. And I never saw the New Looks!
-F.
The Gilligs were saw service mostly in Southeast, although when they began their career they ran on some Bladensburg routes, such as the U4 and I think the H8. They also began their careers and spent most of their lives with roll-signs. Two years, before being retired, they were retrofitted with electronic signs.
Sounds like Gilligs didn't get much respect in DC. They don't really strike me as a WMATA bus. Give me the Flxible Metros any day!
-F.
They were apparently bought by the D.C. government to run in only D.C., like the Orion 2s (thank god these monstrocities are only running in D.C.). They seemed to run ok, never saw one broken down. I thought when they got the electronic signs in 2000, they were going to stick around for a while longer, maybe even painted in the new paint style, but alas it was not to be. Might have been the cramped yard at Southern, although they spent their last years at Bladensburg, where some of them began. I guess also they couldn't be refixed and sent to other garages. Some routes I have seen shouldn't have 40 footers on them.
Really? I assume that means there are barely any riders? In that case, they should put 30 or 35-footers depending on need.
And as far as being banished to DC, I think the Orion IIs should be placed on golf courses where they belong. They do NOT look like buses!
-F.
They could be sent to an amusement park and converted into one of those virtual reality rides.
Or they could just simply park them in a freak show and charge admission to busnuts who think they are seening a real bus. LOL!
-F.
Yes, FRIDAY FRIDAY FRIDAY, the "Incredible Shrinking Bus" comes to your town!! Come see what a mutated bus looks like after its been mated with conversion van.
LOL...too funny! And SEE what a bad Cushman creation looks like. Ever wonder what a Grumman mail van looks like when you're dropping acid? It ain't an 870, that's for DAMNED sure! HURRY..HURRY...HURRY! STEP right up and see this rolling turd!
-F.
It reminds me of that Mercedes commercial where an old Mercedes goes into the crusher and relives it's past life and then comes out a new Mercedes. Picture a Yugo going the same way and coming out an Orion II and it saying OH CRAP! OH GOD HOW EVIL CAN YOU BE! I WOULD HAVE BEEN A BIG WHEEL THAN THIS ****! TAKE ME NOW, OH MAN TAKE ME NOW!
P.S. That Yugo to begin with wouldn't have that many memories to begin with.
LOL...I'll take the Yugo over that flaming turd any day.
-F.
Speaking of P.G. Plaza, they are really going to start building that area up. The person that built the two buildings that were across the street from the mall is now going to complete the project. I am not sure how many more buildings are going up but there are alot of other things happening. Also the Branch Avenue Station has become a
point of interest. The have been talking about putting stuff there, and also at the future Largo Town Center and the Summerfield stations.
Yeah, I saw something about those buildings in the paper recently. I used to belong to the Humana at one of those buildings on Belcrest. They were so dumpy back in the day. I hope they get a good facelift and bring in some good clients to spruce up the neighborhood. Its been a long time coming!
I remember when PG Plaza had no roof. It was kind of cool to remember all of the old stores there. The buses used to stop by where there used to be a Bob's Big boy in the middle of the mall, then they were moved to GC Murphey's about 20 something years ago.
I agree with you there. Even if the taxes increase, who's to say the extra money won't fuel pork barrel programs instead of buses? Or that light rail funding won't go up a politician's nose?
Government does some really dirty things with our tax dollars these days. I only hope that money will be truly earmarked for your transit lines. Otherwise, it will be a wasted movement and push business owners and transit riders further away from public transportation. And that is the LAST thing we need right now.
-F.
Yeah I currently work in Hampton Roads, VA and that was a bad day for Hampton Roads Tranit (HRT). They are in desperate need for those extra funds espeially when all 5 of the 7 cities made immature budget cuts to HRT last year tht saw cuts on major routes such as the #15 Crosstown and #58 Chamelot. Why I say immature is because since the merger, PANTRAN (Peninsula) & TRT (southside) they have not been able to recover. I was hoping that it was going to pass, the roads and bus service is horrible here. I guess that free ride to polls did not help!
People who vote these initives down, don't realize what the consequences are. When they are stuck in traffic, they start complaining "ALL THIS ******* TRAFFIC, I AM NOT GOING NOWHERE, WHEN AM I GOING TO GET HOME, I AM SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME IN TRAFFIC, CAN'T SOMEONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!, and not realizing that they could have. As long is there is something to raise funds for transit, I will vote for it, even if it is like Northern Virginia had it only 40% for transit. Hey every little bit helps.
I agree, but here in Hampton Roads must like bumper to bumper trafic on I - 64 and I - 564. Especially when it rains, that is when I have to laugh the most. The problem here is the trend I see in this area, I see more on the Southside portion is that people see because the Busses here run every 15 (major routes #15 and #20 only) - 30 minutes until 7pm and after 7pm an hour,or even worse not having bus service going to key shopping or residential areas, which gets alot of people aggrevating hating the bus system and instead going to buy a car. But I can't hate HRT for that because they are not at fault, I personally blame the polititians on all 7 seven cities for this. And that is why it failed for the vote on election day.
You've got it better than Roanoke; here, it's once an hour, and 30 minutes on peak service, which is just a few hours in the morning and afternoon. Therefore, chores are an all-day affair for me. But like you say, not the TA's fault....it's the voters and the funding.
-F.
does anybody have a sound clip of a Catepillar engine? or does anyone know where I can get one? thanks
i heard today the classing that are training now will the last for a while, as of the 1st of the year, there will be a total ta hiring freeze.
The total hiring freeze is on right now. The classes that are in training were already hired before the freeze went into effect.
BIG AL
Al,
Do you have a ballpark date as to when the freeze went into effect? Of course i won't ask when it will be lifted as your guess is as good as anyone else's on the board.
I would imagine it affects all MTA agencies?
And what do those people at 1250 Bway do to kill time now..lol
MaBSTOA is currently hiring. No test required. Fill out an application and receive a list number. Good luck.
I'm on the current list now for MaBSTOA(exam #0077). My list number is 1678. Wish me luck. I called over a month ago to change some personal info and they are up to list number 888. Are there any other Bus Talkers on the same list out there? I took a BOSS (Bus Operator Selection Survey) in December 2001. Passed the exam and got the congrats notice hanging on my wall. Man, they when through a lot of people!
D. from Suffolk Transit
P.S. I was also called from the list for TA Bus Operator exam #8043 this past March. Haven't heard anything since the BOSS exam they issued then.
I don't know the exact date it went into effect but I do know it happened within the last 30 days because within the last month I had to instruct new bus operators who were only in their first week of service being supervised by a senior bus operator.
BIG AL
hiring freeze is nothing more than positioning by the mta at this time because of the impending end of the contract on dec 15 in my opinion
All titles in TA?
What training class are you talking bout?
Does anyone out there know what the existing policy is for bus drivers that smoke during their shift? Lately, I have noticed that some bus drivers smoke inside their buses with the window open next to them, but this does not prevent the smoke from entering into the rest of the bus. So when the bus pulls up at the first stop, you can actually still smell the smoke from the bus driver. Sorta a kind of second-hand smoke before it eventually goes away.
The official rule bans smoking on ALL property owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by Transit. Obviously, that includes buses. Equally obviously, there's no enforcement.
Of course, that doesn't stop anybody from calling 1-888-NYCT-BUS to complain.
What I really hate is when a passenger is smoking while waiting for the bus, and as I pull up, they take one last drag and let it out on their way up the stairs, getting most of the smoke right in my face. If I'm paying attention ahead of time, I'll wait to open the doors until they exhale.
...or if there are a bunch of people at the bus stop, plant the doors so the stinking smoker is NOT first into the bus!!!
That doesn't work....the smoker just keeps on smoking until he is right in front of the door, and then takes that last, long drag.
Or even better; one time I saw a smoker take that long last drag, then proceed to put it out on the side of the bus...one of our new ones with a fresh paint scheme!
What an ass. I'm not violent by nature, but I just wanted to smack him up pimp-style.
-F.
More Landover and Southeast/Annex buses were spotted with bike racks, as well as some other interesting observations were made today.
Landover bike racks:
2045, 5167,5174, 4037, 4035, 4085, 4086, 4083, 9771, 8813, 8808 and 8877
Southeast/Annex bike racks:
4254 and 4257
I saw a Northern NABI with a bike rack, got the 520, but not the last number.
Saw another 40 footer on the B8, this time it was a diesel bus from, the Annex(why). It was 4257, with a bike rack.
Landover 9369 had issues, saw it broken down on Rhode Island Avenue near South Dakota. It had the front panel open as well as the back. This bus must have had serious trouble. It looked like 8842 from Bladensburg was the replacement bus, but couldn't tell. As I was going further down the road, saw a Metrobus tow truck on its way apparently to pick up 9369 and tow it back to Landover. Not sure if it had a bike rack.
4233 from Four Mile Run has all LED lights, there are a few out there with one or two and very few will all. This will change next year as the 4200s, 4300s, 4400s and the 3900s go in for rehab.
In addition to those bus observations, the P6 has been running alot of CNGs lately. This route runs from Southeast/Annex with in the past little help from Bladensburg. The W4 also has run CNGs, but they have in the past used alot of Bladensburg buses, but is a Southeast/Annex garage route.
They are going to rehab those buses already? They aren't that old.
Scary to say that by December of next year some of them will be six years old, around the time WMATA does do rehabs on them. One thing I hope they do is replace those non-seeing, even in the dark destination signs with either better seeing signs, like the ones they have on the 2100-2200s or the orange ones, like 4309. They might start going in for rehab by mid 2003.
That would be great if they replaced them a la 4309. Those signs are awful on those buses.
You know the signs suck, when you can't even see them at night.
This evening I rode 2095 this evening on the F2. I usually see 30-foot METRO-B's on this route.
Wayne
Sometimes this route sees 30 footers and sometimes 40 footers. I have been seeing more 40 footers than 30 footers lately on this route. They might also think about putting 40 footers on the 84 also, during rush hour, since all of the routes that run between Mt. Rainer and the Rhode Island Avenue Station are crowded.
I was thinking that WMATA should replace those current and as we all agree out of date banners on top of the Orion 6 with:
non-humor:
The seventy greatest Redskins with each one getting a number of their retired jerseys (for example 2007 would be dedicated to Joe Theisman-aka The Loudest Mouth in Washington), other than the Congressman.
Another one would be "www.metroopensdoors.com", even though we all know it is www.wmata.com
humor:
1)"THIS BUS DOES NOT RUN ON CNG"
2)"LEAST THIS BUS IS NOT AN ORION 2"
3)"IF YOU WERE ON THIS BUS RIGHT NOW, YOU'D BE LESS STRESSED"
4)"AT LEAST THIS BUS IS NOT A CHAMPION"
5)"YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE IN THIS BUS CAN SEE YOU DIGGING YOUR NOSE"
Add more please
Here's one:
NOW THAT THE GOP TOOK OVER CONGRESS...BEND OVER AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!
I was watching the news earlier and they said that the city or state has ordered the MTA to cut spending by 5%. So what does this mean? Service may get reduced in the buses AND subways[the subways would be hit harder]. This deficit is so bad they say if it goes through, it might be as bad or possibly WORSE than the 1995 cuts and you know how much services were cut/reduced back then.
Some examples:
Lost 24 hr service on the B2,B11,B16,B69,M116,Q15,Q26,S66
Reduced services on the B3,B23,B54,M10,M30 and lots more.
They should really think twice about cutting services or else its '95 all over again, the last time we got a fare increase & a major reduction in service.
As long as people can afford to use gas guzzling SUV's, they can afford to pay additional tolls on roads and bridges to pay for the MTA budget shortfall.
There should be no free bridges for cars to enter NYC. Tolling the Brooklyn, williamsburg, and Queensboro bridges alone could eliminate the MTA budget gap. Lets do it already!
Are you Crazy!!!!
The MTA controlled bridgtes and tunnels already charge too much. Putting tolls on the east river crossings will back up traffic costing new yorkers driving up further the cost of shipping goods into and out of new york. Driving more jobs away and raising prices for products on store shelves.
The MTA needs to reduce the waste.
Hear are the cuts that need to be made
1) Close 2/3 of all token booths. Use existing EZ-PASS fulfillment operations to introduce subscription mtrocards. Saving hundereds of millions
2)Shorten most overnight trains. Utilize OPTO. Plenty of R-44,r46, r68, r68A, r143, r62, r62a, r142 r142A available to impliment this service. It is better then increased headways.
3)Remove the discount for staten Island drivers who use the Varazanno Bridge. The reason for the discout is that staten island did not have its fair share of mass transit. That is no longer the case. (free SIRR. Many money loosing express bus route's)
4)Raise the pay as you go fare to $1.75 and remove metrocard dicounts at token booth. Increase the metrocard discount if riders buy over $50 to 20% form 10%.
The MTA surplus of a few years back was primarily due to a surcharge on telephone lines. With the advant of Broadband Internet, people are turning off their secound lines in their homes ruducing the monies derived from the surcharge.
Nice ideas, but...
1. NYC Transit recently tried reducing the number of Station Agents and cutting booth hours. It was something the TWU agreed to in the last contract -- with the phase-in of MetroCard Vending Machines and MetroCard Refill Machines, auxiliary booths aren't as needed as they once were (that's NYCT's position, anyway). The TWU took it to court, and NYCT lost.
2. The way the contract is designed, overnight OPTO doesn't save much money. Shortening trains would save some, but some of the savings would be eaten up in additional costs for "switchmen" to bring the leftover cars into, and then out of, the yards.
3. A case might be made for removing the Staten Island residents' discount. I don't see it flying politically, though.
4. Playing with the fare discounts is something NYCT is looking into. I don't know how it will shake out, though.
David
Regarding 1.:
The agreement was made circa 1994, at the time the fare collection system was being changed to accept MetroCards. The Railroad Clerks were to be re-titled Station Agents and removed from the booths (which has not) in favor of roaming around the stations. The number of Station Agents would be reduced.
Recently, NYCT tried to continue phasing in the changes specified in the agreement (which started with the re-titling of the personnel) by closing or reducing hours at some part-time booths. The Union (and, I believe, the Straphangers Campaign) took NYCT to court, stating that NYCT is required to hold public hearings before the booth hour changes can take place. The court agreed, and that's where we are now -- nothing has happened. Will it? Who knows?
David
The straphangers campaign always wants their cake and eat it too. One of their scare tactics on this issue was to rasise the notion that by closing the auxilary booths it would hurt disabled access to the system and be a major secuity /safty issue.
The Security/saftey issue is the biggest joke due to the fact that the part time entrances such as voories Ave at sheepshead bay station on the Q are already unmanned at the quietest time of the day and only manned during the busy morning rush. If there is no security issues at the quitest point in the day why would there be at a buisier time.
Have there been any public hearings on this issue yet. The problem with public hearings are that they are dominated by groups with an agenda. THe average customer does not attend these meeting.
A better idea to access the impact of closing token booths would be to observe auxilary booths that are closes for part of the day and look at what riders are doing.
I agree with you on all points.
1)In light of current budget constriants. The MTA may have a better chance of winning on the issue of closing Auxilary booths. Faced with the possibility of severe service cuts, the groups who opposed the closing of the Auxilary token booths may have to reconcider their position. I beleive it was the ACLU or one of those out of touch liberal groups who fail to see the big picture. The staphanges campaigns stance on the whole fare increse is laughable. More money is not coming from albany for mass transit anytime soon and with the republicans taking over in washington don't be surprised if we see a new trasit bill that limits who much NY can get out of the pie
2)The good news about the contract is that it is up this year. In order for overnight OPTO to be a big cost saver, proceedures need to be modified. One 8 car length R-68 = 2 4 car OPTO trians. Why would a switchman be needed in order to separate the cars if both sets go into service. Both trian sets would go into service. In additon the MTA should look at ways to make OPTO more friendly for the train
operator.
3)Removing the Staten Island discount will not happan as long as a Republican is in office in the statehouse. The discount has always been unfare to brooklyn residents especially those in Bay Ridge who have families on the other side of the brige. My opposition to the east river bridges comes from my experience witht the varrazanno
The S.I. resident $3.20 round-trip toll was definitely a political decision, like everything else regarding transit. It was instituted prior to EZ-Pass through the use of a special token and a window sticker identifying the vehicle as being registered to an S.I. resident. Now it is only available with EZ-Pass. I never complained about the pre-discount toll because when I moved here I expected to pay it. The discount is not going away, but I think it will increase proportionally with any general toll increases that may be on the way.
In light of current budget constriants. The MTA may have a better chance of winning on the issue of closing Auxilary booths. Faced with the possibility of severe service cuts, the groups who opposed the closing of the Auxilary token booths may have to reconcider their position. I beleive it was the ACLU or one of those out of touch liberal groups who fail to see the big picture.
It's not just those "liberal groups" who can't get the picture, it's also the judges at both the NY State and federal level who seem to make a habit out of trying to micro-manage NYC or some other part of the region (I'm sure those of you in Yonkers were thrilled with the micro-management of the Yonkers school system by that federal judge).
For whatever reason, judges in New York seem to discard common sense and act upon their own activist leanings. At least that's the impression I get.
Qtraindash7, I wish I could reach through this computer right now and smack you. It is already a nightmare getting into Manhattan no matter which bridge you take with all the congestion, regardless if it's free or the MTA run bridges. Putting tolls on the free bridges would make things 100 times worse, in addition to adding to pollution and as they said, making many companies move out of NYC, costing jobs in the long run. Imagine what it would be like during the holiday season. Of course you don't drive, so why should you care. Maybe we should consider raising the fare for anybody riding Long Island buses into Queens?
BIG AL
TOO MANY PEOPLE DRIVE INTO MANHATTAN!
It has to be discouraged somehow, while raising revenue. Why should transit riders, who have respect for their environment, using sensible, efficent means of transport, have to suffer cuts in service and/or higher fares. Not as long as total a**es are driving into the city with their gas guzzling Navigators,etc.
Gosh it gets me so MAD that the state has a budget crunch with all the excess money and wealth I see going around!
Not one cent of transit funding should be touched as long as we can get it by taxing the rich.
You seem to have a vendetta for people who drive SUV's. How about the people who drive regular cars like myself? How about the people who have small businesses in Manhattan who depend on using the city owned Bridges? You're not talking about taxing the rich. You're talking about taxing everybody which could have a negative impact on Manhattan's economy. As I said in a prior post, off peak service will only be cut slightly, which would add only a couple of minutes to your wait at most, alot better than backing up the Bridges into Manhattan with a major traffic tie up in both directions possibly. BTW, major tie up delays the buses that utilize the Bridges also, causing their riders to have a longer wait anyway.
BIG AL
Perhaps a citywide "tax" on the wasteful SUV's is better than tolling the bridges.
I agree tolls would back up the bridges. That's why the new system would have to be "smart". Those who own luxury utility vehicles would have to pay for a special permit for use in NYC.
There is just so much WASTE. Not so much by the govt, but by wealthy individuals who have nothing better to do than shove their money in everyone elses faces.
Perhaps I have been spending too much time in Greenvale. :-0
I still don't understand your thing with the SUV's. The only thing they are wasting is gas. That's the owners expense only. Nobody else's. SUV's don't make up the majority of the type of vehicle on the road, so how much money do you think will be generated if we even considered your plan?
Even a "smart" system would slow down traffic enough to cause major congestion. People with tags that don't work, or no tags so on and so forth would cause a commuter nightmare.
BIG AL
BLX has returned. On the SUV issue, do you mind if BLX inserts his thoughts (however trivial they may be). First, SUV's were originally off road vehicles, not for going to Waldbaums! Do you really need a 4 wheel drive to go to the mall??? How many people in our area actually need 4 wheel drive? How many snow storms have there been in the last 10 years that stopped traffic? They are a huge waste of gas and alot of people that drive them are aggressive. It's like when BLX was a b/o back in the late 70's, early 80's. We drove pieces of crap all banged up. If BLX needed to merge, and no one was giving BLX the courtesy, BLX knew that the old giant bus can be used to push in and no one wanted to mess with the bus (BLX only used this tactic when necessary). When BLX drives his 12 year old Sentra in back of those SUV's (house on wheels), BLX can't see ahead, it's like driving behind a moving wall. Try backing out of a parking lot space next to an SUV, BLX might as well close his eyes. So someone please tell BLX that besides being a status symbol, what does an SUV provide. Oh yeah, it's safer because when you collide with the BLX Sentra, BLX dies and SUV has a few scratches. BLX gets it. Good night. I love you. One more thing, BLX has 24 years with NYCT. In that time, BLX doesn't recall one person ever being laid off. In the mid-late 70's during the NYC fiscal crisis (Abe Beame-Mayor) teachers, cops, etc. were laid off. Many were taken in by NYCT! BLX knew two Transit cops who came over to be b/os' and never went back when called. BLX is out.
First of all, I own a Jeep. My personal choice for my own personal reasons which doesn’t need to be explained. Second, I myself don’t drive aggressive. Aggressive drivers come in ALL types of vehicles. I get cut off constantly mostly by those in cars.
As for Qtrain’s scheme to install tolls on the non-tolled city bridges, I think Big Al already explained it. If that were to happen then traffic would be backed up for miles, including city streets. QTrain also states that too many people are driving into Manhattan. Well, there are also too many people driving on the LIE. Maybe we should put up tolls on that roadway as well.
i love suvs . i luv looking in my mirror and cutting one off , lmao
seriously, big al is 100% right, the hard working people would be the ones screwed with tolls and higher taxes.
all the environmental conscience people that leave all their garbage and what not on the buses are trully doing their part to keep our city clean.
Funny thing is alot of the "tree huggers" drive SUV's themselves.
I never litter on buses and subways though.
TOO MANY PEOPLE take the N20/N21!
It has to be discouraged somehow, while raising revenue. Perhaps we should raise the fare on that line, and eliminate the discount for persons with disabilities.
Gosh, it gets me so MAD that the busses are crowded, and some people are just taking up space by using them to just travel around and rail/bus-fan.
Aw, cmmon. Buses dont waste resources, they are efficient means of transport. A woman driving a tank is not an efficient means of transport.
N20/21 is packed alot, so Mrs.spend60dollarsongas a week should subsidize for more buses.
SUV's are not meant to go to the mall ladies, they are meant for "off roading". So pay your Mallrunner tax and get over it. :-0
"and some people are just taking up space by using them to just travel around and rail/bus-fan. "
Ahem, 90% of the time I use that route to get to the supermarket, laundry, or drugstore.
Give it a rest. Yes, driving on the road with SUVs (or suburban assault vehicles) is a pain since you can't see around them. But, I drive a minivan, which isn't exactly the smallest car on the road either. I am sure someone in a sedan probably hates driving near me. So then let's ban everything larger than a Geo Metro. All box trucks, 18 wheelers, minivans, Toyota Corollas, and every other car larger than a driver's ed car is off the road. All buses and construction vehicles included.
Also, get off the whole taxing the rich thing. The rich do pay more taxes than you and often fund many government programs that they have no need for. For example, some families send all their kids to private school, yet still fund public schools. A child who is in poverty goes to the public school for free, since they don't pay taxes, yet the rich taxpayer who doesn't even use the public school system has paid the tuition for someone who can't.
We are here to talk about buses and trains, not why SUVs are bad or how the rich don't pay enough taxes. Apparently, everyone isn't paying enough taxes since we have to cut budgets since our surplus just disappeared (thanks Dubyah!). Please, just take it somewhere else.
NYC and Washington attract a substantial amount of wealthy commuters to their system. Mayor Bloomberg is not the exception to the rule...he is the norm in Manhattan. It's easy to tax someone that makes more than we do...until that person is us.
Bottom line: We will have a fare hike...and I don't mind it as long as our system gets better. Transit costs money and whoever wants better transit should be the first ones to pay for it.
What about the LIRR and Metro North issue? shouldn't their fares go up as well?
They aren't allowed to talk about suburban fare hikes yet. One hike at a time. They'll get the city riders first, and then the suburban rail system will follow in 6-12 months.
why don't they get the subrubs first? LIRR should go up around 40%
MNRR should go up by 25%
I detect a little suburb bashing...why the hostility?
The suburban systems feed into the core system. 20-25% of ALL commuter rail riders use the subway system as well. Therefore, many suburban commuters pay a double fare each day to get to work and I assure you that many commuter rail riders will feel a city bus and subway fare hike. In addition, the commuter rail systems have federal regulations that must be met in order to continue to operate and those regs are more stringent to maintain, which contributes to a lower farebox recovery ratio.
Suburban rail is the suburb's subway system. In times of bad weather, this is the most reliable way to move about. Only the lack of north-south lines prevent the LIRR from capturing a larger market. The MTA should not have to pull resources from one division to another...they should do their best to draw down enough resources for all of the systems. I think it is terrible when city folks wants to hurt the suburban rail system because of their perception of the people who ride it. These systems keep thousands of cars in the suburbs, allowing us city folks to roam as we wish.
I would much rather see a 50 cent hike than service cuts. We need a "Like Rail" bus system on a citywide scale and the first step to that is to make sure the existing system isn't reduced.
[I think it is terrible when city folks wants to hurt the suburban rail system because of their perception of the people who ride it.]
No, each side "wants to hurt" the other, as you put it, because of the zero-sum nature of the funding equations: There's a fixed pot of money, so funding for either system MUST come at the other's expense.
In addition why can't someone drive when practical and take mass transit when practical
The reason most manhattan residents do not have cars is that the mass transit system is so good.
That is not the case in most parts of outer boroughs and suburbs. I must take a bus to a subway. If I want to go from Mill Basin to bay ridge I must take a slow unreliable bus. It takes almost an hour while I can drive to bay ridge in 15 minutes. Long island residents pay out both ends.
[In addition why can't someone drive when practical and take mass transit when practical?]
There's nothing wrong with driving when driving is practical and taking mass transit when mass transit is practical. There's also nothing wrong with asking BOTH motorists and transit riders to pay the social costs of their respective actions. Am I the only one who sees this?
That makes two of us. I haven't found many more.
I think tolls on the East River bridges are unfair. I moved out of NYC in 1996 and one of the things I was happy about was to be able to escape the high cost of owning an automobile in NYC. ...and my car at the time was a very fuel efficient '92 Honda Accord. I agree with certain taxes on motorists to benefit mass transit simply because... In my opinion... owning an auto is a luxury that many folks cannot afford and those folks have no choice but to use mass transit. However, I think New York motorists are already paying their fare share (and probably more) as it is. Instead of punishing motorists even more with more tolls - no to mention the traffic jams at toll plazas they need to find moeny elsewhere. Just think about... The MTA Bridges are quite expensive now, registration and inspection is not at all cheap, insurance is beyond expensive, parking meters and traffic agents who go out of their way to ticket motorists.
Again - Mass transit is very important, but it's unfair to shake-down motorsits every time there's a fiscal crisis.
Wayne
Yes, motorists pay a lot to keep a car in NYC. No, they still don't cover their costs.
The cost of maintaining a street network is very high. The cost of congestion is very high (as should be obvious to everyone on BusTalk). The cost of noise and air pollution is very high. The cost of policing the streets is very high. Your insurance and inspection fees don't pay for any of that.
The fact is that most NYC street funding comes from city residents, those with cars and those without. Most city households don't even have cars.
Notice, for example, that the city provides free storage on the street for automotive vehicles -- and only automotive vehicles. If you want to store a large-screen TV, you'll have to pay for space in a storage facility, but if you want to store a car, you don't have to pay anything at all (if you can find a space -- as with any very good deal, supply is often much smaller than demand).
So, really, the question we should be asking is whether city residents without cars should subsidize city residents and visitors with cars even more than they do already. I see no reason for even the existing subsidy to remain.
As for toll booths introducing delays -- there will be no toll booths. Bloomberg's plan is to use full-speed E-ZPass readers. The simple existence of a toll will reduce delays as some people opt to use the subway or to not cross the East River at all.
David, where did you read that Bloomberg's plan was to use full speed E-ZPass readers? Last I heard, there was no decision in place as to what kind of toll system was to be used right up to when Pataki killed the whole idea, which I believe was a ploy to help him win votes. Only New Jersey plans to TRY using full speed readers which are still in their experimental stage. Even if what you are saying is true, it would be impossible to have nothing but full speed readers on all the city bridges. What would happen to the people who don't have E-ZPass? They would be forced to take the MTA Bridges. Many people would also use the city bridges that didn't even have E-ZPass in their cars. They would be pulled over most likely creating more congestion. As long as you have any type of toll system, there will be extra traffic and more accidents compounding the traffic problem despite the fact that a few people may shy away to use mass transit, or not want to cross the bridge at all.
BIG AL
See the links on http://www.bridgetolls.org/ for my sources -- mostly New York Times articles. No, nothing's set in stone yet, but I doubt cash tolls are being considered at this point.
Most existing toll plazas have low speed limits because traffic still has to pass through narrow toll booths and then merges right away with cash-paying traffic. The E-ZPass technology itself works at highway speeds. This page gives some actual, real life examples.
As for people without E-ZPass, they have many options: (a) Get E-ZPass. (Bloomberg has suggested selling disposable prepaid transponders at convenience stores. I'm not sure that's practical, but they could certainly be given out with a refundable deposit. In any case, the E-ZPass New York Service Center offers free transponder accounts to anyone -- I signed up when I lived in Illinois.) (b) Use the BBT, QMT, or Triboro Bridge. (c) Ignore the E-ZPass warnings and get a bill in the mail. (d) Walk or bike across the bridge. (e) Take a bus or subway. (Choice e is by far the most popular one.)
A toll system implemented with no booths or barriers will reduce congestion. Guaranteed.
Tolls on the currently free East River crossings would create traffic havoc and more pollution, and we really don't need either.
BTW, you say there should be no free crossings into Manhattan. Would you also put tolls on the Third Avenue Bridge, the Madison Avenue Bridge, the Washington-181st Street Bridge.....?
Well, if it loses 24 hour service then it didn't need it much to begin with. That's my philosophy!
Quite true.
It was also reported on the news that the service reductions would be limited to off-peak hours only. During the rush hours, the number of buses on the road will stay the same as they are right now.
BIG AL
Go let the Straphangers' Campaign know...buses for bucks. No bucks, no buses.
The rumor has been spreading that service cuts will ONLY be in the off-peak hours. This is rather laughable, as EVERYONE will feel the cuts and the express bus system is a peak-oriented system.
This is speculatory, but I see the X29 being shadowed by a large axe. The Hylan Boulevard routes could lose quite a few runs because of duplication and the X21 may never come back to serve the new South Shore park-and-ride. It's hard to cut trains, so I see the impact being focused on buses.
Why does the MTA need express buses? just cut them and make more LIMITED buses, they will make more money, plus there is also the trains as well.
The whole purpose of an express bus is to serve areas which are not close to train service. The vast majority of the MTA's express bus system meets this requirement. Limited-stop buses cannot fit this role because they are too slow. The speed advantage of an express bus is uni-directional loading, where a stop is primarily for boarding or dropping passengers off.
By the way, the MTA loses money on ALL buses. Making money is not their goal...minimizing subsidy is, so more services can be subsidized. The subways come close to covering their costs because they are fed in many areas by lots of buses.
Co Op City buses may make some money, as they are always packed, like the Bx28
The subway lines that come closest to covering their costs are the ones that aren't fed by bus lines. (Remember the free transfer.)
Express bus fares should be rasised.
Especially for areas which have adequate subway service.
Bensonhurst is a prime example. Improve the feeder bus network to express stations on the West end line. If neccissary reconfigure the EL to place express stations in more opurtune areas.
The same can be said about Bay ridge. Improve R train service. Run it express and cut the commutte times. I know this is not possible until the Many B reopens.
Currently R service into manhattan espicially midtown takes far too long. It is an absolute joke. Many Bay Ridge residents opt for express bus service or fast ferry service because of this.
Express bus fares were $4, then were reduced to the current $3, so expect it to go back up to $4.
The European style and very tall bus stops across the five boroughs of NYC are really good in my opinion. I mean (to my knowledge) the whole borough of Manhattan has it, half of Queens (since I use to live there), and a handful in the Bronx, Brooklyn and Staten Island.
So, I was wondering if MTA LI Bus was considering getting these bus stops...in a light blue color like the color described on the Queens Bus Map representing MTA LI Bus Routes? For example, the bus stop would look the same just that the "N6" and "Hempstead" would be in the light blue form.
Has that ever come up for discussion at MTA LI Bus? They would look really cool across Nassau County.
Also, what about putting bus schedules on the poles like MTA-NYCT? Has that ever come up for discussion at MTA LI Bus as well?
Thanks for your time!
A few years ago, there was a public hearing in Mineola regarding improvements in the fare structure. It was a rather unusual meeting, as the proposals were beneficial: the introduction of a free transfer (instead of 25 cents) with the Metrocard, the dropping of the Queens surcharge, etc. Several LI Bus and MTA big-shots were there (Virgil Conway?), so I saw fit to add complaints to my praise: the new fareboxes would not accept paper money, the bus seats were hard, unlike those in the bosses' cars parked outside, and the new bus stop signs were difficult to read. The old ones gave the route number and destination in large type. The new ones gave the route number in larger type and the destination in tiny letters, with a confusing mixture of icons. I was told that the new signs were designed to make them ADA compliant! Instead of providing a schedule, the signs provide a phone number, as if the bus passenger has a cell phone in his pocket. And bus timetable distribution is odd: more libraries than LIRR stations stock the timetables for nearby LI Bus routes! In my opinion, Neil Yellen has done a good job at LI Bus, but the bus stop signs need improvement. Then again, remember when bus stops merely said "Bus stop"?
Great ideas, but there's always the funding probs, especially now.
I think the new bus stop signs should be installed, it would give riders and drivers more visibility. Also LI Bus should have schedules at the bus stops, especially considering that most LI Buses don't run on tight headways.
There is one NYC bus stop in Westchester County as well
And where might this be? It certainly doesn't look like it in Riverdale or at Van Cortlandt PK. And the Bx16 ends right AT the border,it doesn't cross it.
Have you ever rode any one of those buses to the border, or are you just going by what you see on the map?
Bx16:
The Mundy Lane Branch ends right below the border, but crosses it to make it's return trip back to Norwood(the first stop is at Sandford Blvd, which is what Pitman Avenue becomes after crossing the Bronx/Westchester Border
look at this, note that Sandford Blvd is shown, and that the Bx16 runs on both sides of the border(unlike the Bx9 which stops before the border)
http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bronx/bx016cur.pdf
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It happened Thursday on the New York Thruway near Sloatsburg.
Link To Times Herald-Record Article
Now why do those teens need to be firing a rifle, although from their back yard ? I'd like to see how this turns out and if the parents are made to pay for the damages.
Bill "Newkirk"
eBay Item # 1786704552
eBay Item # 1786705054
Joe, what ever happened to those ex-NYCT RTS-04 buses that MTA LI Bus had? Do you have one of them in the museum of yard like the Gilligs? Just looking at that bus reminds me of them (about 6 of them to my knowledge)
The nine RTS buses are awaiting purchase, presumably by NIMCO or a similar outfit. The sooner they're put out of their misery and perhaps made into razor blades, the better. In my opinion, the RTS was the worst transit bus ever designed (as if saying, "Heaven help me," even its destination sign pointed upwards so the Man Above could see it more easily than passengers). It would be my supreme pleasure to see all retired RTS buses entered into a demolition derby before the final cutting up takes place. In fact, perhaps NIMCO can be persuaded to make a beautiful video of the 12 seconds or so it takes to destroy these ugly beasts. That would make a great repeatable MPEG to send across the Internet.
>>In my opinion, the RTS was the worst transit bus ever designed<<
If that's the worst bus designed, what was the best ?
How do these rate with you ?
GM Old Look....GM Fishbowl....Flxible Old look....Flxible 870/Metro
Orion...Thomas...Gillig...NewFlyer...AM General....ACF Brill etc
Bill "Newkirk"
I will only rate buses I've driven. By far the best was the GM Fishbowl. Smooth, easy to handle, a nice classic design. The destination sign pointed down, as it should have. Many more attributes. The "PCC" of buses. Next would be the Flxible New Look. Very similar to the GMC Fishbowl but a bit harder riding. Engine/transmission components many times similar/same in both New Looks. The "High 800" series (850-902) of MSBA was super fast and a terror on the road. GMC Old Looks next. A bit difficult to steer but very comfortable and nice riding. Best feature about these was the small windshield. The large windshields (all of today's buses and New Looks) are murder with the sun, especially when driving at sunrise or sunset. Flxible 870/Metro didn't care for them. The models I drove had steering that was so easy you could turn the steering wheel just by lightly blowing on it. Very dangerous. In addition to turning too easily, you couldn't feel the road when driving. Horrible and very scary to drive on ice or in the rain. Thomas - just call it "Thomas the Tank Engine." Transit model nothing more than an overbuilt school bus. Very high floor and extra step in a narrow passageway required to enter bus. Orion. Not too bad if maintained properly. Prefer diesel to CNG; CNG sometimes slow and erratic on acceleration. Newest CNGs very smooth riding. CNGs more difficult to maintain and appear to break down in service more often. Probably very expensive to maintain the entire CNG system. Strictly as a personal opinion, CNG will not be the future; I believe this honor will go to the hybrid (just as it did in the late 1930s/1940s). However, never drove one. I’m of the belief hybrids will cost far, far less to operate and maintain than CNGs. Gillig. Older model. Another ugly, boxy tinplate school bus on wheels. Rattles like crazy. Noisy, appears to lack sound insulation of any kind from engine compartment. Lack of raised driver's platform has cause many a can or bottle to roll forward into this area, sometimes under the accelerator or brake pedals. Reminds me of the old style milk rectangular cartons turned on their sides with wheels added. All other models listed I can't give an opinion because of lack of personal experience.
It would be interesting to hear only from others who have operated any models of the listed buses professionally with their opinions.
While I haven't operated an Orion or a Thomas....I certainly concur with you on the GM New Look, GM Old Look, Flxible New Look 870/Metro's, and the Gillig observations. The GM New Looks were literally a dream to drive. Get one with good tires, and a good steering box, and they handled very well. The old looks weren't that bad considering they took three men and a little boy to steer; the ONLY thing I disliked about the GM Old Look was trying to get out of a non-controlled intersection (i.e. no lights or stop signs) -- the little "slat" windows in the front door didn't offer good visibility. But they were like battleships with wheels. Heaven help anyone who ran into one of them. They would ALWAYS come out second. We had some 8-cylinder Flxible New Looks with 3-speed transmissions, and it's a wonder nobody ever got hauled into the slammer for the speed they could attain. Never had a problem keeping a schedule....
The 870/Metro's were slippery as hell, the agency where Iw ork did have a couple really bad accidents on wet roads with them.
As much as a lot of people dislike RTS's...they DO seem to last forever. Ours are 22 years old and still going strong. They're like submarines, can go through very deep water with no problem (except maybe the poor clown in the rear seat getting a bath from a leaky wheelwell....)
LOL...........I'll go with you to the demolition derby Joe!
Tony
Perhaps we can all take Mid-Island #699 if it is back in service in time.
You set up the RTS demolition derby and I'll invite you to ride to it with #699. Perhaps you can add a few (or many) Gilligs and Thomas buses for variety.
You got it Joe......LOL........I'll have my people call your people and we wll get ths disaster under way!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Joe, to make the trip a pleasant experience, you will have to hire Oriental hostesses and make a stop at Wendy's for food.
Yes, I will, in addition to darkening the windows, and replacing some of the hard seats with the original soft ones I have, especially the rear one, which, because it extends all the way across the bus, could actually serve as a bed should one get tired..... or randy..... As to Wendy's, forget it. I don't eat garbage food.
How about a BUFFET?
Just what all the 350 pound bus fans need, a buffet.
What was the only area of Philly that RARELY saw the 80xx RTS?
I would have to say Northeast Philly rarely saw the SEPTA RTSes (#8000-#8284 40 foot & #4458-#4470 35 foot). That's because they were never assigned to Comly or Frankford districts (depots) during their entire time with SEPTA. However, they WERE found at Germantown when they were new, & briefly, a few did toil for Luzerne in the early 1990's.
IMHO the RTSes were also never assigned to Southern district either, although they were a fixture on Callowhill district runs such as the G, to name but one South Philly route.
Michael B.
Collegeville, PA
You`re right. The Great Northeast only saw the RTS only on Rising Sun Ave, on Germantown's half of the S (now 18) bus. In 1984, these RTS (8107-16, 8205-64) were displaced by the 8600 Neoplans. In other sightings, they made a cameo appearence on the R, and later in the early 90`s, they provided Callowhill's half of the MFSE Nite Owl bus (Frankford and some Comly buses ran the other half.)
Yea someone should start a photo website or something with them on it.i mess seeing them.Also any go spec. on them!
IIRC didn't those SEPTA RTS 03 series originally have DD 6V-71N engies and were later repowered with DD 6V-92TA???
Wayne
Let`s see if I'm right on a couple of things about the RTS. In 1984-85 they received the roof-mounted AC. It was a slightly smaller version of the Neoplan AC units. It also did not require the square-backing of the rear (they were slope-back from beginning to end ). In 1988-89, these buses were re-powered with the 6V-92TA engines. (They originally had 6V-71 engines). In 1991-92, the rear door controls were altered. The push bars were removed on the RTS and all of the Neoplans (except some of the Suburban Division buses), and the operator controlled all door opening and closings. That was it until they were replaced by the NABI's in 1996-97
Here's one more change for you on the SEPTA RTSes. They were originally delivered with curtain roll destination signs. In 1987-88, the entire fleet of RTSes were converted over to an early electronic estination sign system (GULTON LIDS, I believe) which was controlled by thumbwheels 7 a pushbutton (as opposed to a touch pad). The operator had to step out of the bus to view the sign reading, & if the emergency message "HELP GET POLICE" was on, he/she actually had to shut off the bus (not just the sign power) to get rid of it. (As with most early electronic signs, they were very hard to read in daylight.)
(By the way, it was at that same time that the D & E routes became the 21 & 65. SEPTA stated at the time that some buses would continue to display the old route letters "for about a month". It turned out to be more like almost a year!
I forgot about the change of signs. Thanks!
Only 20 of the RTS buses were built with the 6V71 engines; 8265-8284 - which spent most, if not all, of their time at Red Arrow - were originally built with the 6V92 engines.
Speaking of old RTS buses, Krapf's (the third rate company that operates the Coatesville-West Chester transit line, along with 3 SEPTA contract routes) recently took delivery of at least one (possibly 2) used RTS buses. The one that I have confirmed is believed to be s/n BV810406, which was originally Fort Worth #407, but was actually sold to another outfit, who I can't figure out for the life of me (I'm guessing it was from somewhere in New York State, but I don't recognize the colors - it has a red stripe directly underneath the windows, has a bike rack, and was #280 for this carrier; my guess is that it came from upstate) before arriving at Krapfs. If I can get a pic of this bus, I'll try and post it at my site.
I'll post if I see any RTS's on Krapf's Route "A" (West Chester-Coatesville), since I'm driving around that area, anyway.
I like the way you call it a "third rate" company. LOL
Chuck Greene
The RTS I was referring to was recently purchased by Krapf's; there is a second RTS that was put into service a few years ago, which was built in 1979, and is in the Krapf's livery. The 1979 RTS was originally a Methanol test bus/demo, and later re-powered to diesel before it came to Krapf's (my guess is around 1998 or 1999).
I guess I've seen the "1979" model running around.
Thanks,
Chuck Greene
yea,Do any know what they top speed was?
Alledgedly it was 70 mph. But they would start to struggle if they ran past 45 mph. It was a miracle they survived at Allegheney, what with the 9, 27, and 61 Exp using the Schuylkill Expressway. (That's a cruel joke- that road is a goddamn parking lot! AT ALL HOURS! Traffic never moved on that horrible road.)
Are you sure 70mph. I Know once they reach 50 it sounds like it reach a top speed.are you sure they top speed are not 45 mph that seen mire lickly for septa buses,
Callowhill RTS' were rare on the G, although they did make semi-regular appeances on that route in between the retiring Flxible New Looks and the delivery of the 3000-series Transliners.
I always seen Callowhill RTS on the G back in the day.
Enjoy!
MTA NYCT Orion V #579 on the #7 train shuttle bus at Queensboro Plaza...first time I ever saw the 7 train shuttle bus...apparently, there were no 7 trains to Manhattan, another one of those G.O.'s with the 7 line...ay, jeez...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Why do they need a shuttle bus? Cant they just transfer to the W at Queensboro plaza? Or people in that area take the IND instead.
Well I almost never ride the subways on weekends. It's not the actual GO's that bother me, but the way people get when they find out that "their train aint coming". :-0
A pic of a bus model that I just adore: The Onion! ;)
(Great pic Cleanair!)
#579 Q32
Why do they need a shuttle bus? Cant they just transfer to the W at Queensboro plaza?
The W doesn't go to Vernon Blvd-Jackson Ave.
Yeah I guess youre right, and Court Square is too far from those stations.
<The W doesn't go to Vernon Blvd-Jackson Ave. >>
Or to 45th Road-Court House Square or Hunters Point Avenue, for that matter.
Great pic, Cleanairbus. What camera do you prefer, anyway?
I have my Olympus Camedia C-3020 Zoom digital camera...I prefer anything Olympus (35mm or digital) for really good pictures...basically, I had the camera sitting on a newspaper box at the intersection of Queens Plaza south and 26th St... I just kept the camera on a sturdy flat surface and keep the ISO settings ow, like ISO 100, ISO 200 or higher, I think, will make the picture a bit too bright...since more light is entering the camera (am I right?)...That's all it is...and making sure the bus stays right where it is or I am FUMING!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
And for collectors the opportunity to get one of those special paper transfers.
Nope, no transfers there.
Ok now that I got your attention..
Just completed TransiTALK's latest update which includes Photos from:
The Bee Line System
Green Lines
Rutgers
Milwaukee
Also includes a new sound clip of a WMATA Orion VI and a movie short of a Dallas Light Rail Car in action.
Check it out and enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Excellent Trevor! I love it. One problem, I could not pull up the Milwaukee page. It says, "The Page cannot be found" The same for some of the Dallas pages like the NovaBus, MCI and Neoplan pages. Besides that, it's great! Nice job and nice NEW colors in your opening!
1)Is there anymore Orion II still running?
2}Which is the the newest Orion V up to this point?Are they exceed 400 yet?
No thank God. 395.
So I assume that if you do get new buses, they will be New Flyer? Actually, what would you prefer Joe? New Flyer or NABI?
Put it this way (to steal a line from Monty Python):
For those who don't like Orions, we have ... more Orions.
In short, by the end of next year, with few exceptions, the entire LI Bus fleet will be Orion V CNG buses. At least that's what I heard when I was at the Bus Fest in Brooklyn over the summer.
Good Day
I am requesting your assistance in updating my routing materials --i know there are bus operators out there,,who work for LI Bus---
Please contact me at 914 329 7489
Thanks ,much
Steve
FDNY
Steve,
Long Island Bus has indvidual schedules on their web site(MTA.info) with maps of all its routes by each route.
Hope this helps
Thank You
Thanks ,,Barry
The maps do not show short turns or end of line turnarounds (in many cases)
Thanks,again
Steve
FDNY
Can you call me at 914 329 7489
\
Thanks
Steve
Recently ,,had a chance to ride the Q33 from 74 st Terminal area,,
The DOT gives a routing,,,used due to construction,,,this bus DID NOT follow this routing,,---
Can anyone give the updated routing presently being used on this route,---in that particular area
Thanks,,much
Steve
FDNY
I saw another MTA LI Bus going eastbound, this time I got the destination sign, "LIRR Shuttle" but I did not get the number. It was an Orion 05.501 but it was not a CNG. More like the 500s or the 600s with the white back. I know a few 600s that have that.
Joe, will these buses be a part of the shuttle buses? I do remember last time that Inter-County Coach was doing the shuttle. Will you share with them?
I dont know if they can use the CNG's out there. They'd probably have to fuel them up out there.
Although this message is more apropos to SubTalk, I wanted to make sure interested BusTalkers got notice of this:
The New York Division, Electric Railroaders’ Association is pleased to announce a trip on the Newark City Subway and a tour of the new Bloomfield Shops on Friday, November 29, 2002 (the day after Thanksgiving). The trip will begin at the departure platform for City Subway cars in Penn Station – Newark. Please be on the platform, with a valid ticket (purchased on your own for $1.10; seniors, $0.50) prior to 10:00 AM, as we plan to board the vehicle that is scheduled to leave the platform at 10:03 AM sharp. We will arrive at Grove Street Station at 10:23 AM and take the short walk over to the Shops for our tour. In connection with the tour, you should have ample opportunity to photograph the PCC cars that are in storage there. Following the tour, we will board a car at Grove Street Station (after each of you purchases and/or validates a one-way ticket) and make several photo stops en route back to Newark Penn Station. It is expected that the entire trip and tour will last approximately 3 hours. The ticket price of $15.00 includes the shop tour and an organized trip to and from Grove Street. Transportation to and from Newark Penn Station and your individual tickets for the ride on the City Subway are on your own. For further updates and information, please call (718) 784-3643 evenings. This trip and tour operates rain or shine and starts at 10:00 AM on Friday, November 29th. TICKETS WILL BE SOLD AND ISSUED DURING THE TRIP DUE TO THE SHORT NOTICE.
The New York Division is also operating a Redbird Fan Trip on Sunday, December 8th. Please see the notice in the “Upcoming Events” section of this site for further information. You must mail your trip money in no later than November 15th to avoid a $10 jump in the price.
Story from Friday's Journal News re: Maintainance on Red & Tan/Rockland Coaches
Commuter bus company increases maintenance
I anxiously await Trevor's response...
This is not even Red & Tan..........Granted the exterior washing of our buses has been stepped up a notch and this past week I went two days with having to wipe down my driver's area with Windex Wipes and sweep my area with MY OWN mini-broom.
But the 18 buses that this article is referring to is the 18 MCI D4500 Commuter Cruisers that SHORT LINE recieved. SHORT LINE doesn't even provided REAL service to Rockland County. Short Line has the a stop in Suffern/Sloatsburg, Tappan Zee Express Runs and ONE run on the TOR Route 93, which use Transport of Rockland buses provided by Rockland County. So this article is VERY false!
Rockland Coaches (My employer) is the MAIN provider of service to Rockland County and I can tell you right now that the buses cosmetic maintenance is shot and mechanical maintenance is at a bare minimum (I broke down 3 times this past week).
I tell my fellow employees if you get a clean interior bus, check the Driver's Vehicle Inspection Report Book, look who has had the bus in the past two days, GUARANTEED it was me, I wipe my whole dash area down with Windex Wipes, Sweep the entire bus and spray the bus down with a Powder Scented Air Freshener!!!!!!! 7 of out the 10 drivers I said that to came back to me and said you we're right! Even my passengers say I have the cleanest and best smelling bus they've ridden on at Rockland Coaches in years.
So don't believe this article, not for one minute!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Perhaps CoachUSA may consider stepping up maintainance on Red & Tan in the future and this is a pilot program of sorts.... Just a thought.....
Sounds like what is going on in my neck of the woods; no bus washing. It helps with the water shortage, but our buses, much like NYCTA's Orions, are all white, and they really look like they have been through a war, especially at the back end!
Just curious; are WMATA or Baltimore MTA under restrictions as well?
-F.
I haven't noticed many WMATA, Ride-On or MTA buses looking too dirty these days.
Wayne
I see; that's good news. Some of our buses stay clean as well...usually the Downtown Express Thomas SLFs for city employees and the regular route Gillig that bears a 9/11 remembrance wrap.
-F.
Don't feelbad abotu having to clean your own driver area. I work for a transit agency that makes all sorts of claims about having the cleanest buses in southern California. Yeah, right.
I bring my own Windex and use their paper towels just so I can see out the windshield and in the mirrors. I commend you for caring abotu cleaning your driver area, too!! If only ALL drivers would....
I think every driver should clean their own buses and keep the buses clean their selfs. I bet hardly any driver done this. Clean the outside of the Farebox to prevent any grime bulidup.
Well, what are we paying the peeps at the depot to do then?
Exactly, one night I brung the bus in cleaner than when it left and a cleaner had the fucking ordacity to come on the bus when I pulled back into the yard and said...
"Wow this bus is clean"
Like it was something magical. I told him to his face, I'm not tolerating driving around in a filthy bus and "I" swept the bus before I did my route. He was speechless.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Yow. Was this at Rockland?
Yep!
Trevor
Sheeze! Not good. Sounds like they need to get hit by a TOR-nado...LOL!
-F.
Saw this bus yesterday on the QM15 on 34th Steet. This bus looks horrible. It is missing large sections of its wrap all around the bus. I cant believe (actually I can) that Green would run a bus that looks that bad. Its time for a new wrap or just remove whats left of the old one. Even if some of the paint is messed up after the wrap is removed the bus would still look better than it does now. I will assume Green is short on buses and doesnt want to take the bus o/s to fix it up. I would be embarrased to drive a bus that looks like 5503.
Peace,
Kevin
[It's time for a new wrap or just remove what's left of the old one.]
Agreed. I see #5503 regularly on the Q10, Q37, Q60, and QM18, and it looks absolutely awful.
However, the advertiser generally pays to apply and remove the wrap. In this case, my guess is that the American Museum of the Moving Image either doesn't know about the problem - the bus never runs anywhere near the museum - or prefers to wait until the end of the ad contract.
With the Queens bound E and V lines not stopping at the Lexington Avenue/53rd Street during the AM rush hour how about extending the M-27 from the Port Authority to Penn Station as an alternative.
The M-27 could operate via 7th Ave,W. 33rd St and return via 8th Ave.
I have a friend who is blind and commutes from Long Island via the LIRR and works at Lexington Ave and E. 51st St. It will be a good alternative for him .
I know he could use the M-4 but walking the two blocks is very hard for him without assistance.
Any comments
Thank You
PS-I believe that many LIRR passengers would use this service
Okay, I can go with this one since I do live out on Long Island. Not bad BUT are there enough M27 buses to supply that extension?
Not a bad idea Barry but there may not be enough buses plus if you add service to the 27, then you would probably have to add service to the 50 as well to balance the schedule and intervals. You may only need 1 or 2 extra buses but the amount of routes MJQ runs and traffic, it may not be possible.
Did my usual trip today-Woodside to Brooklyn via the Q53 trip. The nly eventful part of the trip was while waiting for the Q53, the one i was supposed to get had the passanger side mirror falling off and the driver was waiting for the truck(#3001-run 5301). Did see lots of GBL Orion V today, though did not see anything different running. Next Monday, i plan a trip to Staten Island via the X1 route to see if different buses are assigned to Yukon. Will post my observations.
Q53-#3021-Orion V CNG
Q35-#1177-TMCRTS
B3-#9084-NOVABUS
At around 1:15pm today, a 65 bus was t-boned by a Philadelphia Sanitation Department truck at the intersection of Walnut Lane and Morris St in Germantown (obviously, this is not the Morris St of 29 trackless fame in South Philadelphia). At least 12 passengers and the operator were injured and transported to either Medical College of Pa. or Temple Univ. Hosptials.
I saw the accident on television tonight. The Flyer really got whacked by the garbage truck. It's a shame people got hurt in this one. Driver's , especially truck drivers sometimes don't understand the problems with a wet street, they go just as fast anyway. I hope the bus can be repaired!
Chuck Greene
Currently holding a Vigil for the New Flyer....
I'm with you on that one. It breaks my heart to see one of those new beauties banged up.
Chuck Greene
Yea but remeber they are still new can can always take it back and get it fix.
As an update to the thread about the bus drivers contributors to this board and their opinions on the equipment they've operated in their careers----
Either of you, or anyone else, ever drive one ? I know they weren't around long and not many companies in the NYC area had them (Steinway Transit comes to mind).
Thanks in advance for any comments.
i do remember seeing an AM General operating for Suffolk Transit. If you go to the garage in Babylon(Inter-County Coach)-they do have a picture of a aM General in Suffolk Transit colors. #500's i think.
#4758-B1
#9302-B64-NOVBUS
Those wre NOT AM Generals. They were Flyers. D901's I believe, numbered 551-559 or something like that. There were about 30 of them, Inter County got the biggest bunch.
It's an easy mistake to make; the AM General was basically a Flyer with an American Motors nameplate. Remember the "Dodge" Colt?
-F.
Never drove one. and I think the only one I rode in was a WMATA unit on North Georgia Avenue out to Silver Spring. From what I remember, it was a nasty piece of junk, rattled worse than anything I had ever experienced before. I noticed all around the tops of the windshields, drivers had chewed gum and caulked the windshields.
Someone else told me you needed an umbrella to drive or ride inside of one in a rainstorm. Kinda like a Gillig Phantom.....
Thanx for the reply. I never rode one but they looked heavy and slow due to their boxy shape as compared to the sleeker looking GM Fishbowls.
Yeah, I feel you there. We have all Gilligs here; my favorites are the 1991 models, but BOY are they leaky. Then again, I like Grumman 870s and Flxible Metros even better, but the windshield area can become a waterfall after about 10 years or so. Still, I love 'em!
-F.
No personal experience with this vehicle. I'll be offering a beautiful 8x10 color photo of Queens-Nassau AM General #199 (Queens Surface) on eBay shortly. It is the official company photo taken when this bus was delivered.
looking forward to seeing it.
Thanx for the reply.
Memphis, Tn had some of these bsues and they were junk. I recall riding them when new--they'd rock so much you'd get sea sick. One bus in aprticular rocked so bad they took it out of service.
Someone posted on a Chinese Bus Forum...
Source
Stephen
Nice! Almost looks like it has stadium seating in the back. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Some nice looking buses
General Automotive, Flxible's last parent company, set up that joint venture in China in the early 90s. It allowed the Chinese manufacturer to use the Flxible name as well as access to US Flxible parts and technologies. It was rumored that a US Flxible low floor would have been based on this Chinese design.
In the book 'Flxible - History of the Bus and Company', there is a photo of a Chinese Flxible low-floor bus that is clearly based on the Metro design. The photo in the first posting here looks like an entirely new design that happens to have a Flxible nameplate.
Jim D.
reminds me of a RTS
I am amazed the low floor design made it into the book; I wonder if that was an actual Flxible design or if the folks in China did that? Probably the latter. Trevor Logan once told me there was a Metro "G" design that looked just like a regular Metro, but was an LF design inside. Anyone know about this one or if it made the book?
-F.
Really? So this would have made it into the states? Do you know if the Chinese folks are still making buses under the Flxible name? I have seen pics of Metro-type buses made by them as late as 1999.
-F.
Haven't seen those particular photos; the company also makes a Flxible bus that looks very much like the Metro, save for some differences in the rear lights and back door area. Also, they make a double-decker that is loosely based on the Metro as well. Sharp.
-F.
BOY does that look like an RTS.
LOL, sure, if it has a middle strip on the windshield....
True...very true. Hey, there's always 1" black pinstripe. :)
-F.
Actually, the bus resembles that Carbonfiber Neoplan that popped up back around 95 or so. But it`s nice that the Flxible name has survived somewhere. Hey MCI? Do you see this? Use that design, instead of that FUGLY design you picked up from South America. At least this looks sturdy and has a cool look to boot!
Almost exactly like the Neoplan Carbonfiber. I feel you on that one. MCI or Dina or whoever owns the Flxible design, doesn't realize the gold mine they have. I think that any bus fan who likes a particular bus, when that bus is gone and it has a chance to be brought back to life, especially one that has the heritage, quality and durability that Flxible has had, would want that bus to come back. Also, Flxible WILL GET ORDERS, TRUST ME, if it comes back, LOOK AT THE VW BEETLE. More than petitioning MCI, maybe we should petition the transit authorities, especially the ones who have had Flxibles in the past to put pressure on MCI to bring the Flxible back, be it in low floor or high floor form. I am sure alot of other Flxible loving bus drivers on this board would agree to that.
I agree with that! Being that RTS is out of the picture.
This is true. So true. MCI really needs to get on the ball with the Metro tooling and not let it sit like it is useless. We all know better. Look at Cleveland, DC, NJT, Miami, Baltimore, Columbus...and all the other TAs out there that swear by the Metro. Not every city can use low floors, and many need a good old high-floor alternative.
In fact, why not make a low-floor version of the Metro for those who want something functionally different in a proven design?
Bring it back!
-F.
The RTS should come back too. Now the US is lacking on proven buses like the Flxible Metro and Nova RTS
Damned right it is. Where is our integrity and sense of style? Down the toilet with the Biffy Juice, apparently!
-F.
Damn right we would. I was serious when I said we should petition the responsible parties about bringing this back. I listen to the Rolling Stones, I like my Coke in a bottle, and drive-ins are cool. If the above can make a comeback, there is NO REASON why a proven American bus design that looks newer tham anything out there cannot do the same. Let's make a move, people!
-F.
Oh.... and I have to agree with a few of the members... It does have the RTS look going for it. :-)
Oh yes. That and the Orion III (0r was it the IV?). Anyway, that one looked like two RTSes fused together like kissing stinkbugs.
-F.
I agree. Note to MCI: SCREW that awful design...use the design and proven durability that Mother Flx gave you!
-F.
Can you imagine this in CTA, NJT, NYCT, or WMATA colors?
Imagining.....
I wonder what powertrain these buses are using...
Not sure...it's got to be some sort of small engine. Then again, does China even have any emissions requirements like the US?
-F.
Absolutely. Especially since it looks like a cross-town cousin of the RTS. But I would MUCH rather see the Metro design in those colors. Even smeared in dog muffins, the latter looks better than most anything made here today in shiny new condition.
-F.
Haven't posted here in a while. Give me a warm welcome guys... just kidding ;-).
Seriously, is it me or bus drivers [MTA] are driving more slower nowadays, and NOT b/c they are early or stuck in traffic. This is a increasing problem, especially on the LTD routes. Today, I was coming home from school in Downtown Brooklyn and I take the 41 every day so I caught the LTD(9392) towards Bergen Beach(I'm getting off at Foster for the B8). So the driver is driving slow, a LTD passes him(8433) AND the local(8162) leaves us behind. What is up with this? It only gets worse...
So we are going no more than 20 mph until the stretch btw GAP and Empire Blvd, the only good stretch we had. After that, we go back to "normal", under 25 mph on a kind of free road. By Parkside, I see four buses in front of us and the buses aren't so crowded, there were 2 locals(8162 & unknown) and 2 LTD's(8433 & 4464) but we passed NONE! The funny thing is why were the buses bunched up if there were no large crowds :-\. So by Foster, we still didn't pass any and when my B8 came, another 41 LTD(8327) came in about 5 minutes with lots of seats. How could 3 LTD's(4464,8433 & 9392) NOT BE ABLE TO PASS 2 locals that's not too far in front of them. This is how I believe buses are getting slower, not just for this route but systemwide.
Agree/disagree. Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
RTS 9392 B41 LTD
NF 833 B8
how long did your trip to foster take?
About 40 or 45 minutes and I caught the bus from Adams St near the courthouse.
thats nuts, when i worked the limited in the 41 it only took about 30 minutes to foster
maybe the bus itself. Knowing the MTA, those things are insanely governed.
While i don't think that any bus is govern to 25mph.But i have seen bus can't due 25mph before...
some buses at flatbush are still gorverned at 30
30mph..How does that bus pick up.And what kind of engine/tranny it has.
Like the 9300's/9400's.
Wow - I can't imagine TA buses getting any slower. If they lower there speed any more they'd be standing still.
Wayne
Or going backwards.
Rule Book Slowdown
Peace,
ANDEE
no rule book slowdown is going on yet at flatbush. but there just might be a safety issue with all thge 8000`s soon just like what went on at 126 street.
limited view right side mirrors
This is the second time I've seen this bus on ebay. Scroll down to the bottom and check the pics. Any idea what is the heritage of this bus ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872595194
Bill "Newkirk"
If anyone out there wants to BUY a real bus you might want to consider a visit to Double A in Rocky Hill, CT. He has a large collection of Flexibles & Old Looks, some are for sale.
Tony Autorino is the man to ask for.
Also the Seashore Museum has a couple of RTS Slope Backs for sale (they got several & only want to keep one).
[Also the Seashore Museum has a couple of RTS Slope Backs for sale (they got several & only want to keep one).]
For anyone interested, I believe these are former Cape Ann Transit Authority 35-footers.
Yes, Sid I think you are right & all of them were driven to Seashore.
So, if you always wanted a un-airconditioned Slope Back, here's your chance :-)
Flxibles? Like New Looks, or ADBs? Do tell!
-F.
Once again...Any idea what is the heritage of this bus ?
Bill "Newkirk"
To easily obtain the heritage, an interested party should e-mail the seller, request the serial number from the builder's plate, and search the serial number archives of GMC.
Love that old farebox in the bus!
JD
Wow! I have seen this bus. It used to be in an RV storage lot on Sheridan St east of NW 72nd St in Hollywood Florida. The last time I passed by it was gone, wondered what happened to it.
I just returned from a brief trip to London and while over there saw an ad in the subway for a CD from a singer named Moby (have heard of him or the group, but don't know anything about him/them). Coincidently, this bus is in the picture of this ad (at least it looked like the same old-look bus in the quick glance I got going down the escalator!).
I could have labeled this one "A trip from the past" or "The first one in a month", but as you will see later it is aply named.
I started my trip by getting 8817, a Flxible B on the A12 to P.G. Hospital Center. From there, caught 2047 (w/ bike rack) an Orion 6 on the F1 heading towards Takama. Back in the day, I used to take the bus to the subway and then take either a bus from Takoma or Silver Spring into Downtown. At that time, the fare was cheaper this way, even with the fare zones, I managed to get a good bus ride for a low price. That is until they changed the fare from Silver Spring into D.C. making it a MD to D.C. instead of it as starting in D.C.
I got to Takoma and made some observations. One was that 5387 and 5390 (Ride On) still have the black streamers on. Another was seeing 5723 with the Conrad Johnson banner on only the right side. The third being a rarity, in that someone was actually using it. The bus was cutaway 5144. I got 9736, a Flxible Metro D, on the 52 going towards downtown D.C., had a bike rack.
Riding 9736 spotted 2191 broken down near U Street. Apparently I was hearing an impromtu family reunion with this person being someone's cousin and someone being their aunt a bit complicated and I won't go into that, you had to be there.
Got into D.C. and walked here and there and practically throughout lower downtown. First as I got something to eat, I spotted 5119 so I hurried up and ate, ran to Staples and got out in time to take a couple of pics. Ran and bought some necessities, walked, took some bus pics, walked. As the day wound down, I prepared to go home and this is when the day went bad. It started when I spotted one of the new MTA (Baltimore) MCIs heading down K Street. I missed that bus and waited about 30 minutes for the next one to come. I waited and waited and after 30 minutes began to leave and as I got to the other side of McPherson Square, when another one came, DRATS!!! On top of that, spotted 8953 (alternative paint back Flxible) and was about to take a pic, when (the damn battery died) DOUBLE DRATS!!! Got a new camera battery, but it was too late, but gone, so I got 5232, NABI with a bike rack (that will be in another post). It was going to Minnesota Avenue. At Minnesota Avenue, I was going to take the U8 to the F14, but when 2378 rolled up on the U8, everybody and their mother came out to get on that bus. As that bus pulled off, crowded to the hilt, a neighbor came by and gave me a ride home, it would have been rude to turn down, plus it was getting cold.
To end as I was going to get a new battery, I past by a building called "The Homer Building" and at that moment with all that happened, it was the appropriate time to go DOH!
I was in downtown Silver Spring today too at a doctor's appt. I was driving on Georgia Ave. around 11 AM heading to the beltway to get to work and spotted the 25th anniversary Ride On running on the 9 to Wheaton. Didn't spot too many WMATA buses other than 4361 on the Y8 and 2122 running around as well.
Later in the day, saw 4045 on the 15K and 9489 on the 2G. 9489 was featured in the Washington Post as the reporter rode the 25J to test out the new fareboxes. I may try to take a bus ride on Saturday, so maybe I'll catch an Arlington division bus. I know that in a couple of weeks after my deviated septum surgery, I'll take the bus to work for a couple of days, so I'll definitely get an Arlington division bus on the 1C.
In DC, I took 2006 on the 38B from Ballston to 19th and K to meet up with my g/f for dinner. Saw 4300, 4303 and 4309 on the 30's. Saw a few New Flyers as well, but didn't catch the numbers. Also saw 9658 on the B11 at Wisconsin and M with one passenger on it.
I think it was yesterday that I saw 9321 on the 1B. Looks like more Bladensburg Flxibles are getting shifted around.
OOH...I have GOT to see yesterday's Washington Post! What section was this in, and can it be found online with a picture?
-F.
It was in the Metro Section, but unfortunately, no picture. : ( That's the one 35 footer that they have that hasn't been repainted but has the LED tail lights.
OK...then how did you know about the bus number? Was it in the article, or have you seen the bus rolling around as so?
-F.
Oh, they mentioned that it was bus 9489 towards the beginning of the article.
I see; gotcha. What vintage are the 9400s?
They are 1989 Metro B's with Cummins engines. These 35 footers operate exclusively on VA routes and I believe all, or almost all of them are housed at the Arlington Division garage. I think the numbers run from 9481-9498. It may be 9480-9499, but I think its the former. They are scattered around on different routes, but mainly the 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's and 25's will see service from them.
Are they Cummins L-10s or Celects? I rode an ex-Chino, CA 1986 Flx recently with an L-10/Voith combo and fell in love. So smooth!
-F.
Now it's possible to see both of Ride-On's 25th Anniversary Gilligs around Silver Spring since the '99 buses were transferred to Lyttonsville.
Wayne
Oh ok! I thought by now they'd take the wraps off of those buses.
It isn't a wrap, its paint.
yeah, however, the 25 cent fare is gone
speaking of '99 gilligs, do u know what kind of engine do they have? it's hard for me to tell.
I have a hard time with the Gilligs too. I heard that they have Cummins engines. Ride-On's '99 Gilligs sound completey different from the '95 & '96 Gilligs.
Wayne
not to mention MUCH more powerful
Just guessing Gilligs 5360-5409 are powered by C8.3 engines and the Gilligs 5410-5422 or 23 are powered by either M11 engines or L10 engines, I think more the M11s
You may be correct. I noticed that the engines in UMD's '01 Gilligs sound like those in Ride On's '99 Gilligs.
Wayne
DASH's Gilligs 46-58 also have the same engine as the '01 MD Gilligs and the 5410 and up Gilligs.
I believe it goes up to 5423.
Thanks. I wasn't sure. I wonder if Ride On is completly done with buying Gilligs and if they are will they go more with Orions or go with a different manufacturer. Also if they didn't like the New Flyers, I wonder if they would try and road test Orion 7s, since they have been on an Orion kick for the past few years? Finally will they now go low floor or continue with high floors?
I am not sure. Orions have arrived in 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002 and the Orion Is came in the late 80s and early 90s although I do not know the exact dates. Gilligs have arrived every year from 1995 until 1999 (as well as throughout the late 80s and early 90s). My guesses are that they are done with Gillig, they might test the Orion VII once it is a proven model, they don't seem to be the first ones to try out a company, and I don't know if they will go low floor. I wouldn't be surprised if low floors can't run on all their routes. Isn't there an issue with low floors and either speedbumps or really steep hills? From what I've been told, if low floors came, they would most likely be assigned to Gaithersburg (surprisingly IMO).
I heard it was speedbumps and I guess the lower ground clearance would not be able to negotiate the steeper ones. I am not sure about steep hills. PG has some steep hills, one that runs by my way on Sheriff Road and they have seemed to have no problems with them (when they were running on Sheriff Road. The only problem would be a dip before the hill, or a very steep incline, going up or down the hill.
I dont know about speed bumps, most of the routes i've ridden dont have them. However, theres this one point on route 55 where even on HFs the front overhang actually scratches the ground (hitting intensely if taken at a higher speed). The apartment complex that 47 goes through has really annoying harse speed bumps, very steep but short, but i bet lowfloors can clear them.
The 47 no longer goes through there. The 6 now serves Grosvenor Place but yes, those bumps were annoying.
The exit at the Naylor Road Station going onto Branch Avenue has an enormous dip in it and the buses actually have to go very slow so the dip won't damage the bus. I have seen cars go slow over the dip also.
The low floors seem to have no problems with them.
Hmm...that's odd; usually, low floors are the first to have problems on a dip. We are in a valley full of hills and dips, so our Thomas SLFs are always getting banged up at the bottom.
-F.
If it is low on passengers, perhaps a low floor for a myriad of reasons. But if it is a proven route, no wonder high floors have been a staple here.
-F.
Landover:
2043, 2047, 2051, 2091, 3931, 3933, 5171, 8803, 9425, 9458, 9773
Bladensburg:
5231, 5332, 5235, 5236, 5242, 5243, 5244, 5245, 3725, 3733,3734, 8842,8843
Northern: 5223
Southeastern and Annex:
4376, 4216, 9463
Other notes:
5226 was apperently transferred from Bladensburg to Northern as it was spotted on the 70 heading towards L'Enfant Plaza, and it had no bike rack, unlike Northern's other NABIs which all seemed to have one.
5209 looked like it had just been rehabbed, spotted on the 70 also going towards L'Enfant Plaza with no ads on it looking very clean.
I forgot to post this one but here it is.
Bladensburg was starting to get bike racks, seeing Orion 2, 3722 on Saturday and 5238 on Tuesday. I also saw 4251 from Annex/Southern with a bike rack. 9775, 9774 and 4265 were more Landover division buses with bike racks. 4280 is now running from Southern, used to be at Landover, haven't seen any other ex-Landover 42s at Southern/Annex yet, but they will come. By the way this bus got out before getting a bike rack.
Will you be drive on any route up there in Baltimore, because this Friday....
I'M A COMING!!!!
Does anyone have an update on when WMATA's Neoplans are coming. According to WMATA's website, they said that they were delivered, doesn't seem like it as the MANNs are still running, what's left of them (5101, 5106, 5116, 5121, 5122 and hopefully future hame of famer 5119).
Yes, I've seen 5119 recently. I saw 5121 on the Beltway recently heading toward Fed Ex Field.
Wayne
Aboslutely nothing super noteworthy of late. Got 5535 yesterday morning and 5619 this morning. While I didn't take the bus to Grsovenor this evening, I did see 5542 waiting to head out to Potomac (and got a picture). I saw a Gillig on the 42 at around 7 which I thought was somewhat surprising since I thought it would have cutaways by that time. Also, 5591 was on the 47, still with the stacked MONTGOMERY MALL reading.
Marathon in the Parks is this weekend and does quite a number on a few bus routes, especially the 10. More at www.rideonbus.com. Ride-On also reported delays on Monday due to heavy ridership. Have I ever said they should do a weekday schedule on Veteran's Day?
9301 from the Annex has a bike rack.
The Q17 made it into my history books the other morning: It filled up at Main St. Station and didn't make any stops all the way to Utopia Pkwy., except to let ONE guy off at the Horace Harding Expwy.
Since I was one of the last guys who got on the bus, I was clinging to the pole right next to the driver, and I noticed something I had never seen before: Everytime we passed a stop that had people waiting there, the driver pressed a button on the farebox. It looked like either F1 or F6; I couldn't tell from the way I was standing. Was he logging the number of stops he was unable to pick up at? Does the farebox really keep track of all that? Or was he just jittery and liked making the farebox beep?
I not a TA Worker but I have seen those Farebox Control stickers on the driver side of the farebox.
F1 is to print out Transfers for a person useing coins or a token.
F6 is the "Dump" Button to clear the disply on the farebox and to dump the change.
If any transfers came out,Then he was messing around the F1 Button.
If no Transfers came out,Then he was messing around the F6 Button.
And No,The Fareboxes don't count how many stops the bus pass any stops.
Wait, you mean to tell me that the Q17 went "express" from Main St/Roosevelt Av to Utopia Pkwy and Horace Harding Expwy? That right there is VERY unusual. Why? Well, somebody always gets off at Queens College. Was there a back-up on the Q17 that morning? That could be another reason why the Q17 went "express". Remember, I'm just giving my opinions.
He was pressing the F3 button which registers a "flagged stop" each time it's depressed. In addition to pressing this key, he probably filled-out a "Flag Slip" at the depot to document that he made no stops for passengers from one point to another.
I forgot all about the F3 Button
Brooklyn67, Why is all this procedure necessary just to skip a stop?
Alot of times when I ride a MTA bus. I never saw driver press the F3 Button.
The F3 button is really just for statistics. When the farebox is "vacuumed" the data goes on a report which shows the analysts how many stops that bus had to skip on that same trip because it was full of passengers. They then use that information to help judge if more runs on the line may be needed.
Alot of operators don't bother hitting the button which is why many of you may not have noticed it. I always hit the button but admit I can count on one hand how many times I actually handed in flag slips out of the seven years I drove the bus. Generally, I only handed in flag slips when I thought somebody was going to make a complaint as to why I didn't stop. But most people don't complain about a particular operator when they see his bus was totally full when he or she was passed by. Instead they well merely make a general complaint about the line itself.
BIG AL
Thanks for responding BIG AL!!! Is it OK when a operator skippes ( a large percentage) of stops while the bus is very comfortably crowded and not running late?
Depends on what you mean by comfortably crowded. When the bus is full of standees up to the white line, and there is no more available room up all the way to the back area, then the bus operator may flag the stops. However, I emphasize, the bus must be packed to or at least near capacity. I would say min. 70 passengers. Running late has nothing to do with it what-so-ever. A loose crowd of standees (60-65 total passengers) does not justify flagging the stops, all though I've seen B/O's flagging stops with only 60 or even less.
BIG AL
By comfortably crowded I mean around 85 people. All seats full and 20 or so standing and having PLENTY of room to stand in. I ask these questions beacuse this morning, a particular operator who was running on time, decided to start skipping stops even though the bus was nowhere near full. Morris Park av to Pelham Pky. Express and he made only 3 stops on Fordham Road. As a result , I was 20 minutes early to school ( smile).
Continued in part 2....
Part 2...
----------------------------------------------------------------
In very stark contrast, the Bus operator with the heavy british accent ( sir master fuckhead) who drives run 15 some days, has never heard of this concept of 'Flagging'. He makes ALL stops (even though noone rings the bell from Morris pk Ave. to Pelham Pky and (RANT WARNING) has THE FUCKING NERVE to come over the PA saying that how he won't move the bus until the eight passengers which are being forced to ride in front of the white line and in the front stairwell move behind the white line and how we should all move back and make room ( Yeah, does he want us to sit on each other's laps??!!). Just GO AHEAD and delay me even more, HAVE YOU NO CONCEPT OF HOW LATE YOU ALREADY ARE. WELL, HERE"S a FUCKING NEWSFLASH ( sir master fucko) : WHEN YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY CLOSING THE BACK DOORS, just MAYBE the bus is FULL!!! AND on top of that he is ALWAYS late ( to my stop: 4 mins) ( to terminal: 20+ mins).......( Sorry for the rant, I simply had to get this off my chest.)
Continued in part 3....
Part 3.....
Is there some sort of limit on how long a post can be?
As a result, if I wake up late and miss the bus that seemes to like skipping stops, and have a choice of Run 15 ( when sir master fucko is driving) or run 18, I'll take run 18 because I get to laeve home 10 minutes later and get to school before run 15 ( And be on time) AND not face the rediculous crowds, and delays of run 15. The driver of run 18 is REALLY cool! He actually doesn't ignore me:). He knows how to handle traffic on Fordham like a pro. Apple award nomination!! :)
It is a violation of NYCT rules to allow passengers to ride forward of the white line. If memory serves, it is also a violation of federal law.
David
My point is that they wouldn't be there IF he STOPPED picking up people when there was a long delay while peeps came in, and had to make a third and fourth row of standees, on this very late, and crowded Bedford Park bound Bx22.
It is a federal law (ICC FTA), a state law governed by NYS DMV VTL S. 509 Article 19-A and a NYCTA violation for allowing any standees forward the white lines.
Ive seen it on LI Bus a few times. There are some drivers (esp one) that seem to have no problem having people in front of the white line while bus is in motion.
Calm down. Often, when a bus appears full to those trying to squeeze onto the front and to those standing in the middle, there is still lots of room in the back. I commend the driver for trying to make room for more passengers -- the alternative is to make them wait for the next bus, which may be no less crowded.
You want to speed up your trip? Then move all the way to the back of the bus when you get on, and encourage your fellow passengers to do likewise.
Please reread my post, more specifiaclly about the problem closing the back doors. Also, I was sitting, and the people on this bus making a VERY concious effort to make room, so that this bus could move. sir master fucko sat at that stop for 4 minutes and there were STILL 5 people standing in the front stair well.
That nickname you gave him is unjustified. I dare you to call him that to his face. If y'all move all the way to the back of the bus your trip will be faster. Y'all belong behind the white line. It's feferal law. Why do you think the line is there? For decoration? You are blocking his side vision and if there is an accident, chances of injury to those people could be catastrophic.
I didn't mention that he does this every time he operates... And I haven't even give you half the story with this guy.....
At least he isn't closing the door ON you, like was done to me about 4 times, some of these drivers skip your stop AFTER the bell was rung as well
Just so it's clear and perfectly understood, the NYCTA would like us ALL to operate like the BO you have issues with.
Sounds like an operator that used to do the 8:29am N21 to Flushing.
He'd always have the sign wrong (usually N20 Flushing) and drive in the left lane, also he always made a stop in the middle of the road in Roslyn for a deli across the street (not a bus stop).
He always ran late, usually 10-20mins.
When you say 85 people, I would assume you are referring to an Artic. I was referring to a standard RTS. My question: How do you know the bus you were on that got you to school 20 minutes early wasn't in fact late and the B/O was following orders to "run light" to help get back on time? Sounds to me a dispatcher instructed him just pick up at the major stops.
In regards to the other B/O you don't seem to care for. He sounds like somebody who is just doing his job correctly. I respect him for that. If he wasn't doing his job properly, I'm sure you would be complaining about how you were the person who got flagged and left waiting out there for the next bus. I suggest you lighten up with your attitude towards him. Maybe he's on probation but whatever the story, he's trying his best to accomidate everybody so no one's left behind. I'm sorry if it's inconvienent that it's making you late, but being left standing in the bus stop sure won't get you to your destination on time either.
BIG AL
For the first question: I memorised the run numbers for the busses I usually take , as well as the drivers who drive that run.
Part 2:
As to the other B/O: I have no problem with requesting that people keep moving towards the back and trying to accomidate everyone, but there is a limit to how many people you can fit on a bus. My problem with this B/O is that he KNOWS damn well that this bus is very much full ( PLeasse see the closing the back doors section of my previous post), and continues to allow people to pack themselves into the bus. Given that this is the BX22 during rush hour, his actions have allowed another 4 buses ( including two Bedford Park bound ones) to bunch behind him ( and 3 eventulally pass him).
Part 3:
One would assume that he would think " I'm running really late and there's 4 other busses serving fordham and of those there's 2 going to just where I'm going. Perhaps I could try to make up some time and skip some stops." but no, "those busses don't exist because I left them at the previous stop still picking up people, and I'm going to let these people stuff themselves on my bus since they can't see the other ones". Will another 30 seconds to a minute kill those people, who will actually be able to have breathing room on the next bus? Instead we get punished with a 4 minute delay ( as he chants "I will not move this bus until the customers standing in the front stairwell and in front of the standee line are allowed to move behind the standee line") and the other busses pick up the other people which couldn't get on, and leave us still stiing there. I get my sweet revenge on thursdays, when I take run 18 to school and pass run 15 somewhere around the Fordham PLZ area.
flag stops
In 1832...Public transportation arrives when the first streetcar begins running from Prince Street to 14th Street.
Peace,
ANDEE
Tomorrow will be the 15th anniversary of the Q3 going into JFK Airport. November 15th, 1987 was the day. I remember that because I got that notice in my mailbox in my apartment building.
Are you sure about that? I'll admit I may not be right either but I always thought the first public transportation started with a horse drawn carriage on Nov. 26, 1832. I don't think street cars were around yet in 1832, but maybe somebody else can elaborate.
BIG AL
I just had the coolest experience. I was on my way to the library Downtown, and suddinly I noticed a Flxible Metro cruising past me. I ran like the wind to catch up with it at the light, and asked where they got this neat bus. To my pleasant surprise, it was full of freedom-loving concert goers, who pulled me in and offered me a ride. They came all the way from the Left Coast to see the Other Ones (basically the Grateful Band sans Jerry Garcia) concert kickoff, which begins here in Roanoke, Virginia.
At first listen, I thought it was a 6V92, but later found out it was powered by a Cummins L-10. The bus is a 1986 model from Chico, CA and was in service through this past March. The driver turned out to be a bus fanatic, and told me all about his interest and his 1937 White bus that is his pet project. Inside was your typical mystical redecoration (i.e. drapes and shag carpeting), which was subtly and tastefully done. The seats were mostly still there as well. The only fleet number visible was an "86" over the inside windshield area, but I am not sure if it was the actual number.
As we rode around, I told them about our museum, and we stopped off to look at our restored 1976 Flxible New Look. They were very impressed with its condition, especially the windshield design. On the way back, I checked out their music selection, and we listened to Fleetwood Mac as we cruised back towards town. (It was a battle of the sounds; while I enjoy the latter, the smooth sound of that L-10 and Voith combo was music enough to my ears!)
As they dropped me off, we all shook hands, exchanged peace signs and wished each other well, and they drove off in that wonderful Flxible. Due to circumstances, I cannot make the concert, but I am happy enough to have rode a beautiful 40-foot Flx Metro in a town that is now dominated by Gilligs. What a grand experience!
-Fred
That's a cool experience! The bus was in good shape? Did they gut out the insides to customize it to their likings? I've seen a couple of Flxs converted to motor homes.
No, the inside was tastefully and subtly done; most of the seats were still in it and in good shape (hard seats with nice cloth inserts), and it was decked out with carpeted flooring and a rear curtain with sleeping space to make a true "hippie bus". The bus still has all of its windows, etc. and the outside still looks like a transit; it is basic white with black around the windows. Very non-descript and low-key. Overall, a very cool ride in solid shape!
-F.
Correction; I looked up production lists on omot.org and they did not show any Chino units for 40102 production in 1986, or fleet no. "86"; I think it may be an ex-SCTD unit numbered from 8650-8693. It did have a blue stripe at the front at one time, so that may be a clue.
-F.
What number did that bus have?
VTA retired their 8650-8693 Flxibles early this year when the Gillig Low Floors came in. They have Cummins LT10 and Voith D863.3...
I wonder how much they paid for the bus....
Wait, they retired those buses? What else did VTA retire?
Actually, I did some more research, and it was a VTA. The guy said it was retired in March, and that he got it for $2500. It was ex-no. 8684, but they shortened it to just 86; their running joke is that "You never know when someone will get 86ed from the bus". :)
-F.
More news on the Flx Metro and other stuff. I was in a bad mood later on last night, and decided to ride our TA's free concert shuttle to clear my thoughts. It was a bland Series 50-powered Gillig, but nonetheless, it did the job. When I got there, I found the Flx, greeted one of the guys sitting in it ("Remember me from earlier today?" "Oh yeah...the bus guy. What's up, man?"), and we checked out some other coaches there.
The most interesting was a triple-decker in maroon and cream; it was a 1961 GMC (4904, perhaps?) mated to a 1950 Aerocoach, and very elaborately done. This thing had beautiful hardwood and leather work inside, along with carpeting, couches, bunk beds, skylights, and a full kitchen. I felt like I was either in a mansion greenhouse, or a very fine restaurant! Oh yes, and it had a 6V92 diesel pusher.
And these were not your average hippies; they were a drug and alcohol-free group of people from communes that came out to bring people together. They greeted me with green tea and water, along with chili and cornbread, and told me about their purpose and experience, and their devout faith in God. (Yes, you actually read that one right.)Not only did these people offer a welcome wagon, but they were also offered first aid, sound advice, and even calmed visitors who were coming down off of bad trips on whatever they were on. Sort of a M*A*S*H unit on wheels, if you will. And they also handed out flyers with pictures of their elaborate coach throughout the content.
Other sightings included a 1975 Crown Coach with Christmas lights, beds, and cabinets inside, and a 6V71 running fine as day. This sat next to an old International/Thomas school bus painted in vivid colors with a stage built on top, a la a Woodstockmobile.
We then ventured back to the Flx and rode across town; some of the folks joined a hotel party (which eventually got shut down by the police), but our group did the smart thing and stayed on the bus (this was also a drug and alcohol-free group, especially the driver). As I sat in the candle-lit Metro, we all shot the bull with a traveler from England that joined them, and I picked up their guitar and played some Pink Floyd and Beatles tunes. After that, I sat back in the recliner by the rear door, thinking to myself: "I'm relaxing in a La-Z-Boy...and I'm in a FLXIBLE METRO. How sweet it is....LOL!".
After the bad scene passed, they dropped me off at the end of my street, and after exchanging hugs and peace signs, they were off to the next show. I watched in total amazement as that beautiful bus hummed back up the interstate...a Flx Metro, riding through my town, at 2:30 in the morning. How awesome for me.
All in all, it was a great experience.
-F.
I'll be going to see The Other Ones in concert here in NYC at Madison Square Garden on November 26. If these people you rode with are typical Deadheads then they will attend the NYC concert. I'll make a point of looking out for the bus and introduce myself to the bus fanatic driver.
Absolutely; do that. And tell him to get in touch with me. They memtioned MSG, so expect to see them roll up your way. I told them all about BusTalk and other sites, and the driver can't wait to check us out. His name is Randy, and he is a big time busfan.
Oh yes...and tell me all about the concert when it comes.
-F.
On Staten Island, a new park and ride is supposed to open on December 7. Does anyone know of any plans by MTA Bus, Atlantic Express, or anyone else to service this facility?
idk what routes are to serve there. Is this the 1st time the MTA open a Park and Ride Lot?
Does anyone have a roster of New York City buses that carried the 'PA' prefix?
Jim D.
Here it is...
1980 Grumman Flxible 870 PA1-PA175
1981 GMC RTS 04 - PA1318-PA1659 (TA), PA2301-PA2579 (OA)
1982 GMC RTS 04 - All PA1660-PA1858, PA2580-PA2704
1983 GMC RTS 04 - PA3095-PA3325
1984 GMC RTS 04 - 3400-3799 None
1985 GMC RTS 04 - 3800-4218 None
1987 GMC RTS 06 - PA4300-PA4345 (Approx)
Wayne
Actually the 1983 RTS's started the PA prefix at PA3091, and the 1986 RTS's ended at PA4344.
"1984 GMC RTS 04 - 3400-3799 None"
Believe it or not, a 1984 ACTUALLY had the 'PA' prefix to the number. If anyone knows/remembers, 3714 out of UP had the 'PA' prior to this bus being repaintied with the gothic bus numbers and the new MTA logo(3680,3744 and 3745 also had been repainted with the gothic bus #'s) and I do not have a pic so unfortunately, I do not have visual evidence.
Plus from what I remember and seen over the years, 1413 out of FB never had the 'PA' prefix and "LEASED TO THE NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT..
I saw this RTS bus on the Verrazano Bridge around 12pm. It had the Jamaica Bus Lines color scheme, though no number was on it. It was comning back from Staten island. Does anyone know why it was and the number?
B1-#7524-REMAN(Farebox not working-FREE RIDE :-)
B64-#9337-NOVABUS
Probably was on its way back from getting a new paint job. The numbers and logos will be put back on the bus when it returns to JBL.
I forgot to mention the paint shop is on Route 9. I have seen Triboro Coach, Queens Surface and Jamaica Buses there. Command, Liberty Lines and Green Lines Buses get painted in Long Island.
The one that Liberty Lines and Green Lines Buses get painted in Long Island go is on Route 112, north of LIE.
The shop is called Thrift Auto Body.....Its about 1.5 miles north of the LIE on the east side of the road, a little ways up from a Hess station.
I saw that bus at around 12:00pm and Thusday parked in a lot off of Route 9. I take Route 9 get head to Route 440 for the Outer Brige.
Robert
Ive seen this on most of Gleason's CNG buses(TBF) in white paint. Were the CNG buses broke down(all 180 of them)?
JG DOES NOT have 180 CNG's, they have 31 Orinon CNG's(317, 581-610). You must be talking about the New Flyers. You have to be more specific when you say 'CNG buses'. If you talk about the Orions, then say CNG Orions. BTW, some RTS's had the TBF as well(example 8545) and TBF is to be fueled.
Yes, I know the New Flyers run on Compressed Natural Gas[CNG]**. And they have 190 New Flyers and 31 CNG Orions so they have 221 buses that operate on CNG
I thought the TA got rid of all the RTS/CNG's they had ?????
Transit does not have any RTS CNG's right now. The RTS's that are being mentioned have standard engines.
BIG AL
this is a first though that i have seen buses that need to be fueled marked white on the windows. its the only depot ive seen it done. why was it done to begin with. surely, drivers that are on the bus know when it needs to be fueled.
I've been noticing it alot on the J.G. buses lately also. I don't know what the reason is why so many buses need to be written up for fueling. I don't believe that many of them have been breaking down. One reason could be they are having problems with the fueling station and are parking alot of buses without fueling them. It is rather annoying to me because it makes it hard to see the run number when I have 5 buses floating past me at once and need to write fast.
BTW: actually it is not paint, but rather white chalk.
BIG AL
I don't know how many of you get over to SubTalk although there is quite a bit of MetroRail news you all might be interested in. Look for my posts about the "other passenger" on Metro this (Thursday) morning and the post about the 6000 Series subway cars. I am sure this will be quite interesting for you.
Oren
Ok guys, I owuld like your opinions on this.
What are the 5 best plans that the MTA came up with in the buses since lets say 1988, in your opinions? The worst 5? Here's my opinions.
Note: It doesn't have to be in any particular order.
The best 5
a)Making the Q44 LTD and extending the Q20 as a local
b)Splitting the M10
c)Introducing sunday LTD service on the B41,B44,B46 & M2
d)Expanding and extending the B7
e)Creating the B47[the Ralph Av bus]
The worst 5
a)Creation of the B82, probably the most infamous plan in years, possibly of all time
b)The current pattern of the B6 LTD
c)Putting artics on the M23, M79 & M86
d)Making the new B13 without adding service
e)The F shuttle bus, should have been a extended B74
* I'm sure the B82 would DEFINITELY be on your worst five lists
Comments. Criticism. Compiments. Holla back.
I don't think putting artics on the M23,79,and 86 was a bad thing,afterall those routes always got mega crowded when RTS' ran on those routes.Now with the artics there,it means more space and better comfortbility.
top 5:
1-S79 extended service to brooklyn.
2-X1 added overnight service during weekdays.
3-arrival of NOVABUS low floor #995(or #999-same bus).
4-adding the S93 for CSI students.
5-all cng fleet at LIBUS.
bottom 5:
1-having express buses on local lines(Ulmer Park 9300's as a example).
2-removing the b5 and b50 to make the b82.
3-eliminating weekend S66 service.
4-eliminating cross staten island late night service(after 1 am, not able to go north shore to south shore unless going back to saint george ferry terminal).
5-9/11/01.
Killing the B18 was the worst plan to me.
This was before 1988, however the worst plan that I'm sure everybody will agree with me was:
GETTING RID OF ALL THE GRUMMAN FLXIBLES....
BIG AL
Man, I'm upset that I missed out on Flxibles in NYC back in the early 80's >:-o but at least I rode the Blitzes before they were retired :-). Also, another bad plan, not extending the B16 to Empire Blvd sooner after they axed the old B33 in 1991.
Yeah...I feel the same way about WMATA; I never got to ride either New Look design, nor did I see them when I was up there. However, I did get to ride their Flx Metros and plan to return there ASAP.
I have seen a physical ex-DC unit in person, though; a 1977 Flx no. 8282 was for sale in our area back in late 1996 for $3900 OBO.
-F.
Of course being a lifelong resident of the DC area got to ride all of the Flxibles, even the 30 footers. Now I am trying to ride the remaining Baltimore Flxibles before the 8500s and the 8600s bite the dust, being replaced by the Neoplans. Yesterday rode an 8700, 8800 and a 9000s series Baltimore Flxibles, always good to ride one of those bad boys.
If Flxible was saved, New Yorkers would have enjoyed the Flxibles that were supposed to come your way. But alas Flxible is dead (we hope to be resurrected in the future, MCI you know I am talking about you).
Oh yes. In fact, our museum just did a rail tour today in our restored 1979 model 870, and a former Grumman employee from New York state was riding with us; he agreed that it was stupid for NYCTA to jettison those after barely four years, and stated that a lot of bad politics were involved with that decision.
NJT really shined through when they rehabbed them for regular use in their own fleet, and they mixed well with the Flx Metros.
-F.
It is disturbing to see that these Queens privates and LI Bus [and some MTA routes] don't seem to care about how long people have to wait for their buses. I really hope the privates go through a takeover and Mayor Bloomberg really wants a takeover badly since he wants to get rid of those pricey bus subsidies & it seems like he'll do anything to make it 1 bus system. In the MTA, even if the bus is not so busy, the most you wait is 30 minutes except late nights BUT with the privates and LI Bus....you may as well WALK. Examples:
B100: Goes from every 7 min in the PM rush to every HOUR
Q11: Every 160 minutes alternating to Howard Beach & Hamilton Beach[every 80 mainline] late nights.
Q65: Every 90 minutes late nights and bunches up constantly in the daytime, especially on weekends
Q66: Every 30 minutes[every 15 to 51 St/Northern I believe] on weekends and its very busy
Q21: The worst bus route of all bus routes in the DOT, NYCT AND even LI BUS! How could a bus be every 72 minutes all times it runs except the rush, where it is good at 8 min in the AM rush but in the PM its a shocking 36 min and I wonder how people[can't be too much] go through bullshit like that.
What do you guys think? Do you see routes, MTA, DOT & LI BUS that could use major improvements? Please holla back.
Valley Metro (Phoenix) Route 131 Operates bewtween 1hr 10min to 1hr 40min apart per trip all day (5:30am to 7:30am) using mostly 40 FT Tempe NABI LF
You mentioned about headway's on the Q11 and Q65 during the late nights,why is that a problem? after midnight there's far less people than during the day so the late night headway is good enough,there's nothing wrong with it.And yeah,I agree that the Q21 sucks.I don't like it's headway's either but I guess that's the DOT's way of saying
"You got train service,use it!"
b100 operates as a feeder to get commuters to the train station. headways are every 10-12 minutes middays,30 mintues on saturdays and every hour on sunday. service ends at 1:00 am(last bus from kings highway) weekdays and saturdays and 7:30p.m. on sundays.
After getting off work at the library, I got on a cutaway on 45. I overheard the driver that there was an accident on Baltimore rd. and Twinbrook parkway. When we got to Viers mill road, Twinbrook parkway heading west was shut down, we were detoured north on viers mill road. (Drivers are SUPPOSEDLY to cross edmonston drive to access rockville pike.) My driver turned left on Ardennes avenue (residential street, almost parallel to Twinbrook Parkway) and accessed Twinbrook metro this way. After dropping off my gf at her house in front of Twinbrook parkway, I knew that the entire stretch of Twinbrook parkway between Chapman road and Veirs mill road is closed down and deserted. I walked down towards the recreation center to find out what happened, I was originally guessing it was a car accident. In front of Twinbrook Recreation, there were 5-6 firetrucks lined up, on standby. Seeing there was no debris on the ground, I was assuming that nothing happened there. Walking up to the extreme north of Twinbrook parkway, seeing veirs mill road, nothing but a roadblock. Began walking south down Twinbrook parkway, I smelled concrete. In front of the Industrial developement, near the intersection of Twinbrook parkway and Ardennes avenue, there were several firetrucks in front of an illuminated opening, newscrews across the street. Then I found out that an 11 story Garage building has collapsed. After evesdropping on news reporters, I walked to Twinbrook metro to get home. East Side bus stops were completely deserted. C4, 10, 26 were all relocated to the west side. Waiting for a 46 on the west side, I saw 2140(bike rack) changing drivers and starting a C4 run, i'm assuming it's going to go down rockville pike and east on Randolph road. Got on 5562, departing the station, I saw a gillig on 26 montgomery mall entering the west side. Rockville pike was jammed, after getting off, i also saw a 26 glenmont following my bus heading north on rockville pike (to go down edmonston drive.) Hectic evening.
Picked up a friend of mine today at Vienna station and saw all the Arlington division buses that have the new fareboxes being wasted on the Fairfax 12 and 20 lines, rather than being used on the Arlington routes that WMATA brags about in their press release. What a crock. I see so many Four Mile Run buses being used to cover a lot of the 1B/1C routes as well as the 22 and 24 lines. I know Arlington division is closer to Vienna than Crystal City, but don't advertise that all these routes are to have the new fareboxes that accept Smartrip, then place buses from another garage with the old fareboxes on them.
On my way home tonight, though, saw a different bus sitting in the garage at Arlington as the bays were open when I was driving down N. Randolph St. I was stuck at the light in front of the garage next to the mall, when I see what looks to be either a Thomas SLF or maybe even a 40 foot NABI, similar to the 60 foot artic in CTA colors that Trevor had on his website from the APTA expo. I was so stunned by this bus, that I have no idea what this thing was. It did have one round headlight on each side of the front and a plain white panel and the bottom part of the front windshield sort of dipped down in the middle. I wish I could have seen more of it from the side or back. I know Falls Church is to be getting electric buses soon, so I don't know if that was what it was or just a bus that WMATA is test driving, but why it was at the smallest garage WMATA owns, I don't know.
From the sound of it, I would say a Thomas SLF at first guess; BTW, they are slowly but surely becoming the Orion SLF. Same bus, just a different nameplate. Or what you saw could be a Chance Opus.
-F.
I would agree on both possibilities. I wonder if that if it was a NABI, if it had tanks on top. Of course that would be ultimately odd, since if it did would be at Four Mile Run.
If this bus is seen in the day you'll know what that is. I can't figure out why WMATA would be doing with an SLF or an Opus, to my knowledge, WMATA has no plans to purchase minibuses. If it was an electric bus, it wouldn't look like an SLF or Opus. I wonder if it was a 45 foot NABI they might be considering purchasing. This is a mystery on what that is. If they do buy minibuses, they can't go wrong with a Thomas SLF. PG's THE BUS has them for over a year and I love them and apparently they do too, they ordered another batch after their first ones. Honestly they should have bought more of them rather than those oversized vans, called Startrans.
Yeah, it was hard to see inside, but it did appear to be at least a 35 footer since I could get a glimpse of the sides and it definitely wasn't a mini bus. I went past the garage again today to see if I could find it, but the garage doors were closed, so I couldn't see anything else. Saw a few buses on the back that were out of commission: 8782 and 9617 were the ones that I could definitely identify. Not sure where 8782 came from. Once in awhile a stray bus from another division ends up in their lot awaiting service.
I had a chance to get together with some old Shuttle UM friends today for an unofficial 30th anniversary party. The main event will be in the Spring at their Roadeo. It was cool to catch up and talk about the old days. To my dismay,I heard that Flx Metro B 4691, one of only two Flxs with wheelchair lifts we had was totalled a couple of years ago when it was rear ended by a Metrobus near the College Park Metro Station. : (
Is ther some sort of size limit on how long a post can be? I've been forced to break up some of my recent long posts because it wouldn't post while in its whole state. Does anyone know?
There may be a maximum character limit within the program (.cgi file) itself, but within the form textarea, there is no maxlength attribute:
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I just returned from the New York Public Transit Association's Fall Transit Conference in Saratoga Springs, NY. While up there, news surfaced that (private carrier) "New York Bus Service" is giving NYCDOT it required 60 days notice to give up its BRONX EXPRESS ROUTES and MCI Classic buses. This news was to have been released to the press this past Friday. Anyone hear about this news or have any comments or further information about this subject (true or false)?
Also, who do you think will take the routes over? As I always thought there should be one operator for all the Bronx express routes, the likely candidate is "Liberty Lines Express". They have room on their property for the buses too. But the maintenance facility may be too small. There is room to expand the shop, however with the continous talk of an MTA takeover of the privates, would it be worth the investment to expand this (or any) bus property? One operator for all of the Bronx express routes would become a good operation. It would eliminate duplications, and perhaps scheduling could become more efficient. But what about the labor situatuioin an NYBS. Those employees are going on two years without a CBA. Could they loose their retroactive status if another carrier took over?
I'd have to disagree with you about there being only one operator for all Bronx Express routes. I think the current situation with NYBS and LLE works well, since NYBS serves the eastern portion of the Bronx and LLE handles the west. I don't know what's happening behind the scene, but it seems that they're coexisting well.
Wayne
LLE serves the east as well, trying to compete with the (2) and <5> lines on WPR.
Yes you're right... The BxM11 does indeed serve the east Bronx and it's the one exception. All of LLE's other routes serve the western portion of The Bronx.
Wayne
That's because the BXM11 was the original Liberty Lines Bronx express route, and began in 1971. The West Bronx routes (Riverdale, Sedqwick, Grand Concourse) were begun by Riverdale Express from 1968 thru 1972. Liberty Lines acquired these routes in the 1980's (?).
Riverdale Transit's routes became Liberty Lines in the late 70's. They also took Pelham Parkway express around the same time.
Wayne
Has any one else heard or read anything about this?
Thank You
AFAIK, there is no confirmed report of this. Hey Barry, haven't posted here lately I see. I've been on hiatus myself. How you've been lately?
Fine, thank you
Have been busy
How is school coming along
Keep the grades up
Thank You
I saw it on News 12 The Bronx a few minutes ago...it's been confirmed that there IS a possibility, not definite right now, but a possibility(they showed a few NYBS MCI D4500s as well, no MCI Classic shots or Fishbowl shots at all...)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Uh oh, what's going to happen to the Fishbowls?
Like Cleanairbus said, News 12 is reporting this. Go to their website at www.news12.com and scroll down the page to The Bronx. Click on "Commuter express bus service may end" for the story. As far as the Fishbowls go I would assume that they would be retired and sold.
Thanks for the heads-up, Fishbowl. Anyone have the ridership breakdown by NYBS route? Allegedly, NYCDOT has a contingency plan...I'd be interested to find that out, too.
According to News 12, the plan would be to provide limited van shuttle service to either the closest subway station or an express bus route which is under the NYC DOT.
I assume that would mean Liberty Lines for the most part. But are they under the NYC DOT? Just wondering
Yes, Liberty Lines is under NYCDOT. Bloomberg could also declare a state of emergency and temporarily bid the routes or give them to Liberty Lines.
I was just going something similar to this. On Friday I was riding the Bx31 bus. When we got to Boston and Eastchester Roads, a NYBS B/O came across the street and talked to the Bx31 B/O. Seems like they know each other. Anyhow, I heard him something to the effect that NYBS is supposed to be taken over by MTA by January. Is there any validity to this story???
Bx31#9234
Here is the article from the Bronx News 12 Website:
Commuter express bus service may end
(11/16/02) MORRIS PARK - Thousands of Bronx bus riders who depend on the New York bus service to get to work in
Manhattan could be out of a ride come midnight January 12.
Private express buses says they're forced to terminate their
commuter express bus service based on the "inability to
resolve long standing issues with the city's Department of
Transportation."
A spokesman for the city's DOT tells News 12, one of the long
standing issues the bus company is referring to is money for its
pension. The DOT says it's meeting with the Bloomberg administration this week. Together they will decide if the city will further help
out the New York bus service.
A spokesman for the bus company tells News 12 if the city gives his company money for their pension, they'll reconsider. But the city is facing a billion dollar budget deficit, so the chances of the
city bailing out the company is slim.
In the meantime, Bronx bus riders say they're tired of being caught in the middle.
The DOT says a contingency plan is in place just in case the service ends.
Good. Just what my mother needs to hear. A New Year's present of being relegated back to the subway.
When it rains, it pours. First I pick up the newspaper and it's full of unemployment and homeless shelter articles, then I find out our local library is cutting back on hours due to funding, and now this.
So is this really over a disagreement with the DOT, or just another sign of the times when a Bush is in the White House and all is hell?
-F.
Today's article says it relates to NY Bus's fear that the take over will result in a big hit to their pension plan and owner's pocket in particular. He's not going to take that hit by himself.
Just another part of the COST of a MTA take over ... remember Kalikon said he won't do it if it's going to cost the MTA. I don't see George saying he'll reimburse the MTA either. Is the cost enough to kill the deal ... don't know if anyone has added it up yet.
<< When it rains, it pours. First I pick up the newspaper and it's full of unemployment and homeless shelter articles, then I find out our local library is cutting back on hours due to funding, and now this. >> - thus spake Flxible
I have an idea. Let's abandon New York City, and take all the New York Bus Service buses with us! Then Osama bin Laden will have no Knickerbockers to bomb!
"The DOT says a contingency plan is in place just in case the service ends."
They were at Liberty Lines Express Garage trying to figure out if they could fit the buses there. Word at my garage is we may get their routes, buses and some of their drivers but nothing is official. NYBS told the DOT to get their buses off his property by January 12th. They also handed their employees a notice telling them they have 60 days to find a new job.
Peace,
Kevin
Just out of curiosities sake does this includes NYBS Bd.(forgive me )Dept. of Education bus and portable classroom service as well.
Nope just the express bus operation. NYBS will continue their other services.
Why'd they single out the Express busses? They seem to have good ridership.
New York Bus Service will only continue their school bus operation. The mobile classrom contract was discontinued after the past school year according to a NYBS driver i spoke to yesterday who confirmed that ownership has given the 60 day notice
Thank You
Don't be surprised if the TA gets the routes. Here is my reasoning
1-Liberty Lines does not have the room for the additonal equipment that will be necessary to run the NYBS routes
2-Because of the regional bus concept now being developed why have another operator take over the routes that the MTA will get within 2 years.
3-The TA does have an excess of 100 RTS and 71 Orion Soft seat buses that can be used for express service right now. Most of these buses are now being used for local runs in Staten Island,Queens or Ulmer Park. Off the approx 171 buses about 15 to 20 are still used for express service currently at Quill for the x-26,x-90 and x-92 routes and i understand a few are used at Castleton for express runs.
4-Until the new West Farms Depot is opened hopefully in March of 2003 then Zerega CMF can be used for storage and maintance.
5- The drivers and the mechanics that are laid off by NYBS can be taken into MABSTOA similar to the 1980 takeover of the Avenue B and East Broadway routes. Since they are also TWU members (I am not sure if they are Local 100) then that is not a problem.
THIS IS SPECULATION ON MY PART. I DO NOT ANYTHING OFFICAL FROM MY MTA SOURCES.
Any comments
There are more Orions than 71 - (101-172,611-630) (102 Total).
Orions are used on the X90/92 & X26 along with RTSs that Quill has (9270-9277) (9282-9284) (9342-9344).
On SI, you have a better chance of seeing an Orion Suburban on a CAS route than YUK routes - eventhough almost always it is MCIs.
Occasionally, an Orion will show up on the X3 or X4 - and sometimes on the X1 (saw one like 2 weeks ago in the morning rush) - but it is VERY rare now.
What is wrong IF the MTA takes the routes with the Classics? They are express buses - the only thing is that they don't have W/C lifts. If there is need for W/C lift buses, just have the MTA send out an Orion or RTS suburban. Also, it would be nice to see Fishbowls in MTA colors again (I know it's a long shot!)
In addition, the parts for the classics are manufactured by MCI, and the MTA already deals with MCI parts for the D4500s, so parts shouldn't be an issue.
What can be an issue is the abuse the suburbans have taken on the local routes - torn seats and such - would cost to fix them for express service again.
Sorry - 101 -- I forgot 122 was scrapped.
"There are more Orions than 71 - (101-172,611-630) (102 Total)."
101-172--> 72(well 71 now)
611-630--> 20
That makes 91 Orions express buses still in service.
I think the fishbowls would be retired by then, more MCI D4500's come to the MTA & it would be cool to see MCI classics in MTA colors. You're right, parts wouldn't be a problem, especially for the classics since they're older.
*Remember, none of this is guaranteed to happen altough a takeover is becoming more & more likely.
What is wrong IF the MTA takes the routes with the Classics? They are express buses - the only thing is that they don't have W/C lifts. If there is need for W/C lift buses, just have the MTA send out an Orion or RTS suburban.
Nothing really... Just a tiny little thing called the ADA. Knowing New York's activist communities, they're going to scream bloody murder if non w/c buses were operated by the MTA (assuming of course the MTA takes over the NYBS services instead of Liberty Lines).
What difference does it makes who runs the service? It's the same service either way; either ADA compliance is crucial or it isn't.
This is only the beginning. All of the DOT Companies (Except for LL Possibly) will be taken over by the MTA by March 1, 2003.
This is the day their contracts with DOT?! will be up.
Also do not be surprised if you see an all system strike on December 15th. I am prepared to walk the QBB to and from work each and every day. And I expect it to last quite a while.
And NYBS'S Buses will either be given to LL or scrapped. Get your last rides on the Fishbowls while you can. These will be gone forever from NYC by 1-12-2003-sorry to say.
#1979 x17
#1489 BXM7
Yeah, the Local 100 website does not seem too upbeat about negotiations. *cough*
As for ADA, IT DOESN'T MATTER! Gee, you have two choices: fit 10,000 commuters on six 45 foot buses and a handful of Classics or have on-call W/C service. This is the least of their worries.
How can I tell you that the MTA WON'T take over the privates by March 1, 2003?
1) The contract expires December 31, 2003 with NYCDOT. Unless each carrier gives up its routes (which seems possible given the high-quality of NYBS's operations), it can't happen without a buyout.
2) Tell me where the MTA is going to get money to get 200+ new express buses plus new local buses to replace the 1985 and 1986 RTS buses? The reason you retire older equipment is to lower operating costs...notice the MTA has retained most of their 1985 and 1986 models in case of a shortage, but they stay away from the really ragged buses as much as possible. Somehow, I don't see a fleet of gleaming new buses being purchased by Bloomberg as a gift to the MTA...so they won't be in a hurry to take these routes.
3) As I've said before, the $160 million per year ($108 million city, $52 million state) will not be enough for MTA operation of the NYCDOT system from the get go. If the MTA could get this money, they would have been a bit more upbeat about the prospect of takeover. However, Bloomberg wants to redirect the city money towards the budget deficit and the MTA has said that it won't take the buses for free. If city dough goes, so does the state match. Whoever blames them, please raise your hand.
4) A poster has mentioned that Liberty Lines can handle the buses for the lines. Let's hope that they can keep all of the subsidy. It would be much simpler to have LLE do it, although they would have to have two separate picks (i.e. East Bronx division or something) to speed up the transition.
As for a strike, I hope not to see one, but Toussaint seems to have the willingness to shut a system down if necessary. In the end, this may REDUCE the MTA's market share as I see several routes that could quickly be "privatized" in the wake of a strike. They will also not be able to count their money for some time. It may work better now than in 1999, when the city had the money to mitigate a strike. Now, the city may just allow bus companies to "temporarily" pick up the slack since it's impossible to strikebreak 231 bus routes and 25 subway lines.
I hope that if the system shuts down, it will shut down once and not four times before the big strike. I have my personal opinions about some of the proposals on the table, but this isn't the thread for that. The little shutdowns before the big one really shifted momentum away from the union's case.
My prediction: Atlantic Express may be getting more work. They are the only "non-franchise" (HAHAHAHA) company that knows how to play with MetroCard fareboxes. They have a Bronx facility and they may be able to find a parking lot for the new buses (remember the "interim" contract in June 2001).
A stike by MTA employees will get you guys no where except lighter in the pockets this christmas.
In addition it will allow the city and state an excuse to take more drastic measure which may result in the lose of your stable but not glamorous jobs.
I don't work for MTA, nor NYCDOT or any of its franchises.
I may be wrong, but I have a hunch that the NYBS passengers will have a fit if there is an MTA takeover and they have to be subjected to MTA suburban Novabuses and Orions. I mean let's face it, those suburbans are nothing more than glorified transit buses with high-back cloth seats. They don't have any of the amenities that these passenger are used to and have been used to for over 30 years such as overhead racks, reading lamps and not having to endure those mega-bright flourescent lights shining in their eyes the entire trip.
Maybe some of you are regular riders of NYBS, or maybe you might know people who regular use NYBS.
What is your opinion of this issue? Just curious.
"Maybe some of you are regular riders of NYBS, or maybe you might know people who regular use NYBS.
What is your opinion of this issue? Just curious."
I take the New York Bus Service on a sporadic basis when I need to commute into Manhattan. Yes, I prefer the express bus over the subway. I'm no traitor to the subways, I just like the comfort the bus has to offer.
Personally, I think they should hold on to the MCI's. From time to time, I will see the Orions with the suburban seats pass by. They are used as a training bus for the up and coming bus drivers. Seeing it in my neighborhood reminds me of my days going through high school drivers ed.
I don't believe those busses could possible be as comfortable as the MCI. The ride alone will probably feel rough. I'm not sure the suspension on those busses can take the rough and tumble of the Bronx streets and expressways.
But I am curious. If MTA would eventually take over the routes, and some unseen economic boom would bring our city back to pre-9/11, I wonder if the MTA would consider purchasing the Suburban cruisers that they use for the express routes in Staten Island and Brooklyn. And how about provinding service into lower Manhattan. That is, going beyond 23rd Street?
Just wondering.
Taking the bus by no means make you a "traitor to the subways". The "A" train is my all time favorite subway (hence my handle name) but there are times when I wish there were other alternatives (other than the extremely limited alternatives currently offered) to get to Far Rockaway.
I can answer your question about the suburban Orions. Every once and a while, I take the QM17 which is exclusively Orion V suburbans. It is a clean comfortable alternative to the "A", or any other subway in NYC, but it has nothing on the MCI's, MCI 102s, MCI D4000s or D4500s or even the Canadian suburban fishbowls that NYBS currently operates.
There won't be any TA Strike. If they do they be forced to work because due to Talyor Laws would be enforced so there's a verry few chance the TA would go on strike
Hehe...the city has started making contingency plans. The mayor needs a bargaining chip. There are people in the union that aren't as sure as you are. Somehow, I think it just might happen, considering that money will have to be FOUND for the transit workers. Two days would be enough to have Albany cry "uncle" because of the loss in tax revenue and sales.
Hi
I am very interested in what is happening to New York Bus Service.
You mentioned in point # 2 that a regional area bus concept is being developed. You also said that MTA will be taking over the express bus in 2 years.
What does this regional plan entail? And does this mean that in 2 or so years even Liberty Lines, the other express bus line, will be taken over by the MTA?
Thanks
Peter Kalikow who is Chairman of the MTA Board has proposed that the MTA be reorgainzied as follows
1-MTA Tunnels and Bridges(No change from current status)
2-MTA Subways-(will run the NYC Subway and Staten Island Rail currently run by New York City Transit and possibly take over PATH from the Port Authority)
3-MTA Railroads-which will merge the LIRR and Metro-North Railroads
4-MTA Buses which will operate the following:
a) New York City Transit Buses-Brooklyn,Queens and Staten Island Divisions and 126th Street Depot in Manhattan
b) Manhattan and Bronx Surfice Transit(MABSTOA)
Both a and b are run as the Department of Buses of NYC Transit. NYC Transit will cease to exist in its current form if this plan is approved.
c) Long Island Bus(MSBA)
d) New York City Department of Transportation routes currently operated by Command Bus,Green Bus,Jamaica Bus,Liberty Lines Express,New York Bus Service,Queens Surfice and Triboro Coach
e) SC Transit-currently operated by contract by several companies in Suffolk County)
f) I believe HART which operates in the Town of Huntington
g) City of Long Beach Transit in Long Island
h) Westchester County Bee Line Systerm whose largest operator is Liberty Lines Transit whose sister company is Liberty Lines Express.
g) Possibly Rockland County buses (Speculation)
Before such a plan is put in effect will require many agreements and problems to be worked out
One problem is New York City Transit emplyoees. They are civil service emplyoees and its against Federal law to eliminate their jobs. MABSTOA and Long Island Bus are not civil service workers and are not covered by this
Another problem will be funding,union juristications,senority lists etc. That in itself is another subject and should be covered at another time.
Thar is the esscense of what MTA Bus would be.
Will it come into effect? I do not know
But if ownership of New York Bus Service does not change their mind.They are out of business as of January 12th. A supervisior told me today in Manhattan that he was told to look for another job-(he has no union to fall back with) believes its going to happen because he doubts that the city will give them the money he wants and the owner usually sticks to his ground.
To give these routes to another private operator just does not make sense.
Thats my view. Hope this explanation helps.
Thank You
The reoranization of the Bus department will consist of TA, MaBSTOA, and LI Bus, the other DOT companies are not included in the proposal.
Reread the package
Kalikow specifcally mentioned taking over the NYCDOT routes provided if additional money is given to the MTA
Thank You
From the press release dated October 9, 2002:
"Once the newley merged Bus company is established (NYCTA, MaBSTOA, and LI Bus now being MTA Bus), consideration will be given to having non-MTA transportation providers, including private bus companies that operate in New York City and throughout the MTA service region, join the MTA. These changes would require the agreement of both the MTA and local governments where the non-MTA providers operate"
Rockland County is not in this packaged deal, as I work for them. We have yet to date hear anything down from the county about this.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hey Trevor can you tell me again what time on Wednesday's you leave Palisades Center Mall on the 20 bus again? I just may go there next Wednesday.
Even I'm considering going there again, because so many people says the mall is a busier place. Also last time I went some stores werent opened.
I guess Friday or the weekends would be the most happening times.
Of course, I will take the TZX bus from MNRR, instead of the almost 2 hour ride on the 20.
yeah you bet as hell I'll do the same.After you told me that it's only a 1.50 on the TZX compared to $5.25 on the 20,going to 242nd St. then taking the 1W bus to White Plains is better than that anyway.
Plus I got the Bee-Line 22 ticket bargain book so I practically have myself 22 free rides in Westchester County.
And yeah I'll go on a Wednesday just so I can ride the 20 back to the PA with Trevor Logan.I like meeting people I see online face to face.
I'm the 4:10pm out of the Mall to the PABT!
Trevor
Alright!I'll see you there then next Wednesday.I would've gone today,but I elected to go to Jersey Gardens Mall instead.And it's really nice,looks beautiful,it reminded me of Palisades Center when I saw it,I totally wasn't expecting it to be the way it was.
h) Westchester County Bee Line Systerm whose largest operator is Liberty Lines Transit whose sister
company is Liberty Lines Express.
Can I ask you clarify this ? Does the MTA intend to buy Bee Line out ? Also I thought Liberty, the nycDOT portion, was the smaller part.
You mention LL Transit vs. LL Express vs. Bee Line, I'm confused.
Thurston,
Westchester County has several operators operate the bee line network the largest being Liberty Lines Transit.
Liberty Lines Transit and Liberty Lines Express which operates the Bronx express routes both are owned by the same owners.
Should the MTA take over the NYCDOT bus routes then Liberty Lines Express will cease operations but Liberty Lines Transit will continue to operate until the time the MTA takes over the Bee Line System if it should happen.
Hope this eases the confusion
Thank You
Yes, thanks. I didn't realize that Bee Lines had more then one operator.
Although it seems like a takeover is going to happen, I'm not sure Liberty Lines would be absorbed into the MTA system since they run Bee Line buses as well. Well, if they decided to give up Bee Line, then its logical but I don't see a takeover of Liberty lines happening for now. I believe that if all the privates are taken over, I say Liberty will either be the last one taken over or possibly staying independent. That's my opinion.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I just learned something also about several Bee Line OpERATORS , THANX
My next hope not silly quest . Who runs the Bee Lines Express into Manhattan from Yonkers and above ?
In the short run someone will need to operate the route.
Some creative deal makign can solve many of the above problem with combining the varying bus divisons
It's a shame NY Bus service will be no more. From a riders, bus fan point of view they are a model operator. A penny extra in maintnace pushes off the $300 k cost of a new bus.
The fishbowls on madison square park in the late 90's was always a sight to see.I am just kicking myself that I never had the time to take a joy ride to the bronz and back.
Grew up on the MTA fishbowls. Riding too and from grandma's house
Interesting, except the MTA is in no position to take these routes. Why?
1) Where are 137 buses going to go? Gun Hill can't swallow that many. Gun Hill and Kingsbridge MAY be able to handle them, but that's a stretch.
2) Can the MTA figure out to integrate these drivers into their system by January 12? This IS a state agency, and they would have to get Bloomberg to declare a state of emergency for any route transfer under current franchise rules. Then, they would have to free up money in Albany to implement this because NYBS's subsidy won't be enough for MTA operation (more overhead, I'm not bashing).
3) Bloomberg will slash the subsidy to the next operator. You will find that money disappears in the process of this transfer to whomever. The MTA is open to taking the routes, but they won't do it for free. Bloomberg's plan is to offload financial and physical responsibility for these routes (i.e. he wants the MTA to take it for free).
My opinion is that there may be an emergency temporary bid, giving the BXM7 and BXM7A to a new temporary carrier. Liberty Lines can probably absorb all of the other routes without a problem. You may even see Queens Surface get a piece, considering that it is USUALLY 20-30 minutes to the terminals of the BXM7, BXM7A, BXM7B, and the BXM6.
Anyone know the ridership on the BXM7 and/or BXM7A?
As I have already stated, Liberty Express has the room for the buses and can certainly handle the work and up date a revised seniority list. But will it be worthwile for Liberty? With talk of Bloomberg cutting everything, Liberty cannot and will not be short changed. (No other Private would be for that matter).
And as far as Queens Surface (QSC)getting a piece, they have 336 buses in a facility built for 275 buses. They are crammed now. And just because they have a local route in Co-op City (QBx-1), don't look for them to get anything. I understand the service on the QBx-1 is not good. If it weren't for the MTA routes that transverse from Pelham Bay Station to Co-op City, QSC would've been on the carpet long ago. The MTA routes supplement the QBx-1 and take the spotlight off. Take a look at their 55 MCI Classics. They are in sad shape.
And if Liberty took over the operation, they have a valid CBA that expires in 2-3 years yet. But what about the NYBS drivers and their retroactive status?
Another item, I understand that the 1800's (new MCI Coaches) were purchased with a NYBS grant from the FEDS. NYBS applied to the FTA directly without any input from NYCDOT (I could be wrong). So then, who would get these buses ?????
The BxM7 and 7A are the heavy hitters for NYBS. The BxM7 (Co-op City) Line is the companies current heaviest route with the 7A as the close second.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Please read my posting on what may happen.
The buses can go to Zerega until the new West Farm Depot opens hopefully in March of 2003
In regards to the buses to be used since the TA has about 150 RTS and Orion Soft seat buses does not mean they will be used on the NYBS routes should they be taken over.
I would speculate that the Queens MCI's and some Ulmer Park MCI's will be transferred to the Bronx since these buses only make one round trip a day in most cases especially on the x-29,x-32,x-51,x63,x-64,x-68. The RTS and the Orions are already in the Queens and Ulmer Park depots.
Again this is my opinion and speculation only.
Thank You
Well, there is a big construction project going on at LLE garage as we speak. They are leveling out the land next to the Metro North Tracks. Nobody will say what the construction is for but given the current situation I would have to say they are making room for more buses and not expanding the employee parking lot. I was told by my union rep that LLE may get some of the NYBS routes if not all. Only time will tell what gonna happen.
Kevin,
There was an article in todays Newsday about New York Bus Service going out of business. A NYCDOT spokesman was quoted that the city was in favor of the MTA taking over the bus routes
Thank You
For information www.newsday.com NYC edition
PS-I read the story in the paper
I read something similar in the Daily News and confirmed it on the New York Bus Service site - they aim to dump their revenue services, but keep their schoolbuses, on January 12, 2003.
Barry,
It seems like the the City is going to take a few of the routes and LLE will take over a few too. Still no details as to who is going to get what. This info is from my Union Rep. As always these plans are subject to change.
Peace,
Kevin
FYI the Nova express at Ulmer park are in no condition for express uses
Plus it will be easier in the short run to shift some of the routes over to Liberty lines because of like contracts.
My hope with MTA regional bus is they cut some of the $75-150k a year buracrats and put that money into operating the buses. Currently a few million dolars a year are used to pay the salaries of the top cats at each private line. The owners of the cooper controlled companies are collecting salaries at both command and green lines.
>>"My hope with MTA regional bus is they cut some of the $75-150k a year buracrats and put that money into operating the buses. Currently a few million dolars a year are used to pay the salaries of the top cats at each private line. The owners of the cooper controlled companies are collecting salaries at both command and green lines."<<
I agree. They are making too much $$$ while treating the passengers like nobodies and shitty service[especially the Queens DOT lines]. It's also like that in the MTA. IOM, NYBS is the most reliable DOT service out of all 7 privates, if only the MTA took care of their buses like NYBS, we might still have some older buses on the streets. A full takeover of all the DOT companies [although I am uncertain about Liberty Lines] should occur, thats my opinion.
Yesterday, I decide to take a little trip so I take a trip in Brooklyn and this would take 3 hours and 15 minutes.
So I start out by taking the F towards Av X[saw a R32 F in the opp. direction BTW] and the ride is smooth but at Bay Pkwy, the C/R says that " ladies & gentlemen due to a police investigation, Frains will be skipping Av N, next stop Av P". What was going on there? Do any of you guys know what was going on out there. Anyway, I get off at Av X to catch the F shuttle and I run for 9330(ahhh). So I take it for the short trip to CI where I would wait for the B36 Av U bound. So I cross Surf Av and I wait for a few minutes until 9093 shows up. After a driver change, we were off and this drove good all the way through, especially via an open Surf. The ony disturbance was when we were on Nostrand Av and this white car driving on the outer lane comes and makes a right turn right in front of the bus, causing the driver to press he brakes pretty hard [luckily he was doing 20mph]. So I get off at Av U where I would wait for the B44.
So 9383 comes at Av U but I let it go since it was a local and it wasn't leaving yet. Then the LTD was right behind it, where I catch 4439 towards Williamsburg. So the ride is cool but the local was near us for a while until Kings Hwy where we leave it but catches up with us by time we reach Glenwood Rd. The bus was getting pretty crowded, especially by KC hospital & Downstate Med Center on Clarkson Av. So were continuing and it sounds funny how 4439 was struggling to get speed on the uphill on NY Av after Empire Blvd but its a good bus overall. So I get off at St John's, where I have to wait 10 minutes for the Court St bound B45 after I just missed it. So like 5 minutes later, the local B44 arrives at St John's and I'm very frustrated b/c I could have just taken the local but I didn't think it would be kind of empty. So I wait until 4964 shows up and myself and a few others have a conversation with the B/O about the budget cuts of Doomberg, the fare hike and the metrocard going "universal".
I heard that they want to make the Metrocard more universal by letting you use it for cabfare, food, movies, etc. Anyway, we go smoothly until I reach my stop of Nevins and Livingston St, where I would catch a KP bound B41. So 2 41 locals[8434 & 4469] come and I let them go thinking the LTD was still running, plus there were no seats. I look at the schedule and on weekdays they STOP RUNNING AT 8PM[just for the record, I was at the stop at 8:05 and the last LTD from Livingston/Flatbush was 7:48] but on weekends it stops at 9-10PM! Why in the world do they stop so early on weekdays when the buses are still pretty crowded. Other LTD's run until 9 or even 10PM. So I wait until 8154[non-repower] and 9384 comes but I decide to hop on 8154 b/c I like the non-repowered '90/'91 buses more and it had seats and came up first. Anyway, the driver here was good and it only took 30 or 35 minutes to get to Foster Av, even I was surprised it was so quick but added LTD trips in the evenings would sensible. So I get off and a few minutes later, my B8 came and as were leaving the stop, this car nearly clipped the driver's side of the bus, stupid car drivers get me so mad >:-o but it's a smooth ride until I reach home.
R46 6087(F)
RTS 9093 B36
RTS 4439 B44 LTD
RTS 4964 B45
RTS 8154 B41
NF 865 B8
I read in yesterdays DN that there was another Boyfriend/Girlfriend heated argument turned stabbing near the token booth of the Ave. N station on the F. Apparently a friend intervene between the two and lost his life.
I saw a picture of GMC RTS-04 bus #1644 on Livingston St (the route was unknown) and what was unusual about it was the bus had RED turning signals in the back. Did the 1981-1982 RTS buses have that? When did they go with the ORANGE turning signal?
I also remember two Flxible New Look buses #7620 and #7628 with ORANGE turning signals (TAIL LIGHTS). I think #7620 was on the M101 or 102 or 103 and #7628 was on the Bx19 (145th St). Were these buses experiments for the NEW Orange signal tail lights?
GMC New Look (Blitz) buses were also like that in the NEW orange turning signals. The older ones stayed the same with the red.
I just thought that I would share it with you.
Yes, the very first RTS's to hit the NYC streets had red turning signals which were changed over to orange later on.
BIG AL
Really? I thought every RTS made since 1977 had orange turn signals?
I don't know about every RTS made, but I know all the 1981 and 1982 RTS's originally had red turn signals which were changed over some time ago. I don't believe they started arriving in with the orange lenses until the 1983's but I'm not 100% certain if it was even that year.
BIG AL
I had seen some 1984's as well in the 1990's with the red turning signals so it looks like the '84's was the last model built with this feature but I may be wrong. I remember seeing 3705 and 3742 of UP not getting the orange lenses until 1997 or 1998.
Come to think of it, red lenses were the norm on Grumman 870s and early Flx Metros at the time, as they were with most everything; it would make sense for the era, but I have never seen an RTS that way, not even a slopeback. Must be a very odd sight.
-F.
it wasn`t until the 8000`s that the amber turn signals were on the rts.
the 3400 in gleason were delivered with red and so were the 4600 tmc`s.
Yeah...it's really interesting when light colors are switched around. Basically you can get virtually every lens mold out there in every color; for example, when our 1991 Gilligs arrived, all of them had orange, but for some reason one ran around with all red for a very short while. That seems to me like a step backwards safety-wise, but it looked kind of cool as it was different.
To me, the orange, while safer for visibility, just don't match up on the back of a Flx or GM New Look; it just looks too "new" and out of place on those, much like LED signs, rubber bumpers, Alcoa wheels, etc.; it just spoils the overall classic image to me. I'm a purist; while it gives you something different to look at for variety, I just don't like it when someone puts new stuff on an old vehicle. Could you imagine having OnStar in an Old Look? It just doesn't fit!
-F.
"Could you imagine having OnStar in an Old Look? It just doesn't fit!"
Imagine having luminators on the old looks, new looks/blitzes(GM) and the New look Flxibles but I think the orange lights on the new looks made them more attractive[somehow]. I would like the alcoa's back on the '95 Orions and all the RTS's from 1994-1998, the RTS's are just too unifird and with the repaints, they all look the same except for different engines and variation of the design.
Yuck, a Blitz with LED's and Alcoa's.....can't imagine that LOL. The blue/red roll signs, the paint scheme made them very attractive, man they were just good looking buses. Buses nowadays just don't have the quality and attractiveness[inside and out] nowadays. After the RTS is gone, that's it for quality buses then it will just become attractive exteriors/interiors[which isn't all that bad].
You just sent me on quite a trail of thought. Imagine if a company reintroduced the Old Look, only it is a new bus, complete with Voith trannies, LED signs, retarders, wheelchair lifts, LEDs, Alcoas...everything to make a modern technology bus, yet with a familiar old design. And would T-drive be hard to do on an Old Look?
And yes, I agree with new stuff on a Blitz; Alcoas just look tacky on a New Look and fit newer buses better. However, LEDs might not look so bad as long as they are the larger type and not the smaller ones...
-F.
Yes, the (rear) amber turn indicators started showing up later. The GMC Blitz buses had red turn indicators when they returned from rebuilding, but later many of them got the amber treatment.
Some of you may remember that some of the Grumman 870's rec'd the amber rear turn indicators as well. This started soon before the were withdrawn from service. Many of those assigned to COL depot had them.
Wayne
1644 was a Flatbush bus. Since you mentioned Livingston Street, that bus must have been on the B41 that day.
B41#1644(Old Skool)
I also emember riding this bus in it's ending days on the S54 on SI. What was interesting is that the linoleum on the front steps was ORANGE instead of Black on the front steps. Anyone know why?
I think Flatbush had 1641-1658 back then. I think they were transferred along with 4731-4752 and led to FB's Blitzes[5365?-5404] being retired or being transferred by the arrival of the 1990/91 TMC's or the 1993 TMC's.
Have you guys seen the teen-bashing on Sub-talk lately? Look over there and see, its getting pretty heated over there and I will not put the poster's names here b/c I think it will be inappropiate. As a teen myself[I'm 17 turning 18], I took it a little personally b/c this person thinks all teens don't know what they are talking about and that we psot garbage, in which I DO NOT, you guys have seen it yourselves. You guys know I normally do not post things/start topics that has nothing to do with transit issues but this bothers me and I thought I should bring it up. I would like to make 'friends' on this board, especially the teen posters even though I've been here for a couple of months.
Yes, I saw it and I commend you (and the others) for speaking up for yourselves without resorting to the insults, name-calling etc.
Wayne
There sure is a lot of mud-slinging going on in everything these days. America has become such a tense people; it's disgusting.
-F.
Teens,YAY!!!!!!!!
Dude, I am soooooo 15. Adults who cant put up with teens totally sck te big one. (Im serious, too. After all, they were teens, right?)
Wow, and I thought that I was the only one..:)
It's not the teens, per se. It's their behavior which we cannot stand.
There is nothing wrong with that; I know how you feel about teen-bashing, I was victimized by a lot of that not long ago, especially when I got my license at 16. Suddenly I was the bad guy that no one would let their daughter around because I had, GASP.....a CAR! And of course there's the "You're a young buck, you don't know anything" bit that you get from some folks. I got this from a very early age.
However, don't let it bring you down. I let that affect me a lot of times, and when I look back at how I could have really applied myself in some areas, I could have been a better person overall. But I let people oppress me. "You're too young for this...you're too young for that". This brings about an inferiority complex that can plague you for the rest of your life if you let it.
When I was younger, I wanted to be a teenager. As a teen, I wanted to be in my 20s or 30s. Now I am almost 26, and sometimes I wish I could go back and do things different to be more of a team player in everything I did. I could have joined more academic clubs. I could have gone on to a better college. The list goes on and on.
Don't let people plague you. Know who you are, and that you are important; no matter what age you are, enjoy it while you still can.
-Fred
I'm 60, and a have a lot of respect for anyway that enjoys busses and subways. Whether your opinion is right or not, you should have a right to post it, without out the name calling. As far as I'm concerned, everybody on the Sub-Talk and Bus-Talk should be friends, since we all have a common interest. Your "age" has nothing to do with it.
Chuck Greene
Damn right, Chuck. I can't agree more. And that goes for ANY club devoted to our hobby. Peace out!
-F.
That's interesting because I have been posting here since the age of 14 and I have never been bashed because of my age. It's partially because no one even knew my age from my postings. Therefore, I believe that when someone attacks your youth, you should ignore them because they have run out of things to say.
hey i'm 14 and a half right now. it's nice to know that there are a lot of young bus fans out there.
There sure are; I got into buses at age 2 and have been hooked ever since. :)
-F.
I guess this is what happends when you don't check up on your bus/sub talks. Well I have not give my 2 cents lately. Making my "B23 posters" lately (just joking ... I should rename myself B 23 Limited the way I am talking) But it is funny I never thaught there were teens or anyone under 30 on this. There goes that line if you ASSume you are an !@#! (laughs) Well it has been awhile since I talk and see what you are saying Flatbush 41, it is really bad and dissapointing. But I am 21 and I have been on bustalk since I believe 17 or 18 (I can't remember). But I feel that the point of this site is to learn and talk about my and fellow talkers favorite hobby busses and rails. I have been looking for a website for awhile that can find that I can relate too. I did not care (despite my assumption) what age, gender or race it was but I can talk about busses and give my opinions or ask questions about it. But in the case of the subtalk, it is just plain immaturity.
Good post, my man. It is nice to know that. I just wish people saw that as you did.
TO ANOTHER BUS/SUBTALK SHUT DOWN!!!!!!
It was only a matter of time before things got outta hand again, I don't know about you guys, but I have a real bad feeling that these talks are in thier last days! And I wouldn't blame Dave if he did.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I hope it doesn't get that far and I hope that peace can be kept on the posts from here on out.
Troy
I know THAT's right!
-F.
This latest topic came over from SubTalk and is now here. It really should have stayed there and died out. People keep posting these controversial subjects and it gets out of hand.
Bill "Newkirk"
Truth be told, I don't think it has even been so bad, at least not as bad as some if the other wars that have happened. I really haven't read the threads completely that were involved, but sampled them here and there. It just seemed like a situation that had gotten exagerated. People should have just let it go. It should not have been taken so personal. When someone says something you don't agree with, it should just just be ignored. Even when someone resorts to name-calling. If everyone would just ignore it when it starts to take a life of it's own, it would just go away. Don't respond, and the thread will die.
Actually, again I really didn't see any major wars there since that Astoria El incident. All the recent ones could have been avoided if both sides would just ignore the thread, and they really are not that out of control by comparision.
Everybody does add something to the board, and it's a shame that people's feelings get hurt to the point where they feel they shouldn't post anymore.
I AGREE! Some things that I have seen posted here is just uncalled for and the ignorance and stupid remarks must stop and we should get back to what these boards are REALLY FOR: busfans/railfans talking about different systems[here its mostly talk on NYC].
Come on now. There is no civil war brewing that I know of. Other than an occasional venting, it's all gravy?
-F.
Right, but in the past, the "occasional" venting is what shut things down, honestly I don't want the talks to go away, but reality is reality and if things keep getting out of hand on SubTalk its gonna shut BOTH talks down.
Have you noticed in the past, most of the issues have been on Subtalk, but BusTalk suffers and gets shut down right with Subtalk and we are never involved save for one incident about 2 years ago.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I see; I didn't realize things were so bad at SubTalk. The only real time I ever went there was during 9/11 and when I saw Archie Bunker ride car no. 1184 on "All In The Family" about a year ago.
Things have looked peaceful here to me so far, at least in the posts I have responded to (mostly Flx-related).
-F.
Please, I am not trying to think about it!!!
Its not just teens either, but bashing people who have disabilities and cannot work for certain reasons. One of the many reasons you wont be seeing me on there as often either.
I dont understand why certain people need to "ridicule" others who are different, whether it be if they are young, have a disability, or in a tough situation.
I sure hope Subtalk dont get shut down but I wouldnt be suprised. I know Im not getting involved anymore, because then I just have to lie to get myself out of ridicule.
It would be nice if we all could co-exist and just accept our differences and find common ground in the mass transit cause, but....
Damn right. We all have differences, whether it be race, ability, family background, etc...but the smartest of us, Yours Truly included, do not even SEE those differences...so mellow out, y'all.
Really. I'm serious. We are all one here.
-F.
One of the many reasons you wont be seeing me on there as often either.
John, I really wish you would reconsider, I always enjoyed you posts over there, and I know many others did also. Don't let the remarks of a few make you feel you shouldn't post there that often anyomre. I feel the majority of SubTalkers enjoyed having you there! Please try to just shrug it off - and post there about the subject we all love - the subway (or in this case, buses).
Why not? Don't tell me you're going to stop posting as much as you used to. We need to keep the people who actually know about the integrity of this board and stick to transit issues. I have read your posts [I'm sure you read mine in the past] and I like your posts and yes, I have seen you get bashed here at one time[the LI Bus thing]. Don't stop posting as much as you used to b/c of ignorance.
LI bus actually does suck, based on Qtraindash7's posts.
Here's my two cents worth. Everyone on this and the Subtalk board love either bus or rail transit or both. Everyone has something to contribute. Everyone may not be right all the time or have all the facts when posting, but to name call and to ridicule someone, be it based on their age or if they are a bus or a rail fan but doesn't know as much as mostly everyone on this board IS WRONG AND DISRESPECTFUL in my account. We are here to share our passion and love of transit with each other, and sometimes we are here to educate those who don't know or might be wrong. BUT IT IS NEVER RIGHT TO NAME CALL OR VERBALLY ATTACK SOMEONE, that is stupid and would get this board shut down AGAIN!!! I don't care if you are a teenager, if you want to share your love of tranit with us and share your transit experiences and knowledge is alright with me. The more the better.
The poster named busfan on the other hand should stop asking questions and start experiencing and riding, and reading that's how I found out more about transit and engines and other stuff like that. Knowledge is power, asking too much is just plain lazy.
That's true...and usually if the driver has been there a while, they may be able to shed the light on bus makes and power combos...if nothing else, they and your local transit center can provide ride information as that is what they are there for. Does this person check out TA websites? Those could provide basic info as well.
-F.
Just an FYI...Philadelphia's 30th Street Station looked more like a BUS terminal today due to two shuttle operations.
On the 30th Street (west side) of the station...SEPTA buses were all over due to shuttling for the Rail Power Project.
On the 29th Street (east side) of the station....At least 5 New Jersey Transit Cruisers ringed the outside of that station. Due to track work on the Atlantic City Line, all rail service was replaced by bus.
Enjoy,
Stephen
Hey everybody, I've been lurking on the board since it re-opened and I finally realized that my account still existed! Awesome! I missed you all and I'll be posting regularly from now on.
I'm glad you missed me. Everybody loves me! :o)
Great to see you back; I had to go away for a litle while but was greeted warmly upon my return. Always a nice spot to return home to.
-Fred
How's this for a gaping hole in the transportation system:
The thirteenth busiest airport in North America, Detroit Metro (DTW), lies 22 miles east of Ann Arbor, which is home to a large, internationally renowned university of about 38,000 students - of which over 15,000 are from out-of-state.
A large amount of these out-of-staters fly away for academic breaks. How do they get to the airport? Well, up until now, they had very limited options: drive individually (a recurring "solution" for transporation in Michigan), bum a ride off a friend, or shell out $40 one-way for a cab.
Two years ago, when I was a fledgling freshman, I said "enough of this." I set up a website and found out when people were flying, and I chartered buses at those times. I operated a total of 26 trips and charged $18 for a round trip. I had some decent traffic on a few trips, but it was somewhat of a discouraging experience because I lost so much of my own money.
Fast forward to the present. The current student government was elected on the promise of improved airport transportation. They tried last year, but failed because they just did not have the transit planning know-how. Last spring, I contacted them and we joined forces. Now, for the upcoming Thansgiving Break, we have established a transportation service borne of my planning. We are offering eleven total trips at a cost of $14 round-trip or $9 one-way. I have my fingers crossed that airBus (as I call it) will be an operational success, and this time, I know for sure that it's a fiscal success: so far, we have five sold-out trips and we are in the black with over 230 tickets sold.
I invite you all to take a look at the website to get a taste for the project. Please post any questions or suggestions here!
What kind of buses are you using?
We are using chartered over-the-road coaches. Most likely we'll get early-mid 80s MC-9s, but I might have to convert to 45-foot buses for some of my trips. If that's the case, I have my eye on my contractor's handsome 1999 MCI 102EL3. They also have a new (and rather ugly, IMHO) Prévost of some sort, not exactly sure of the model.
Thanks for your responses, guys. To update, five of our eleven trips are now sold out (Trips 272, 273, 274, 013, and 014) and I am going to look into chartering a 45-foot coach for some of those.
If you want operational details of airBus, check out this link:
http://www.omot.org/cgi-bin/transit_talk.cgi?read=5125
And of course, if you have any other questions about the operations end of it, please post them here. I have been so busy with the customer service aspect of airBus that I haven't had much time to "transitfan" my own operation!
Pssst...I'm attempting to launch a similar operation in the Northeast. Perhaps you can e-mail me and tell me how you increased your volume. The site is www.geocities.com/transportazumah.
That's really cool! I'd love to do something like that... let me ask you - what kind of background/major/degree do you need to become a transportation planner? Right now I'm in a liberal arts program, so it's sort of like that Sampler at Applebee's - a bit of everything on one platter.
See I would like to be a transportation planner in some capacity but I would also like a background in music (composition/theory).
Right now I'm at Bergen Community College (I don't know if you're familier with schools in Jersey). BCC is one of the better CC's in the state. For the xfer school, I had my heart set on Montclair State, but I'm also toying with Rutgers New Brunswick.
MSU - I have a LOT of friends who go there, I'm very familier with the campus (I was in the Music Prep program virtually all of my youngin years), it's close to my home and close to the city.
RUNB - It's an "away" experience that's not too far away. It'd be a nice change of pace that's not a world away (if I went there I'd live on campus - a daily commute from Bloomfield to New Brunswick, whether by train or car [most likely train] would be a bitch!). I don't know anyone who goes there (although this one friend of a friend may go there...), I can still get to my home and NYC easily if I need to, New Brunswick and the environs is a very nice setting. If I wanted an easy switch of jobs, I could just transfer to the Borders in East Brunswick! And you can't beat that Rutgers shuttle bus system!
So ... what does the chef recommend?
Thanks for any inputs.
I majored in Econ and I've applied for jobs in transportation planning, even having a job offer from NYCT a couple of years ago, but the starting salary wasn't enough to get me to move from DC to NY. I'm a transit analyst right now with a contractor with the FTA. There are always a ton of planning jobs I've seen advertised that say business, econ, urban studies, things like that. A little experience in the transportation field as well couldn't hurt.
At this Shuttle UM party I was at yesterday, I was talking to someone who works in Bus Operations at NJT as well as someone starting their own transportation consulting company, someone else that's a Project Manager for FTA and someone else that works for the Federal Highway Admin. so I'm definitely keeping in contact with these people. Who would have thought that driving for a campus bus service would be such a plus!
I checked out your website. A great idea, I wish you good luck and I hope it's a big success. I noticed you have one trip sold out already, hope you fill all the seats!!
Mark
That is facinating, amazing that you were able to set all that up. If you can do that singlehandedly, perhaps you should look into some kind of Traffic Engineering (is that a field) or transit manager job. Heck, Logistics is a major part of any business venture today, especially in most industries, where everything is "just in time" delivery, and factories live or die by their supply of materials.
Sadly I don't see much of a need for any airport bus service at my school, Drexel University in West Philadelphia, we have Amtrak; the Septa R1 to Philadelphia International Airport; Amtrak or Septa and NJT (tranfer at Trenton) connecting service to Newark Int. Airport; Amtrak and MARC (with a connection to MARC from Amtrak somewhere south of Aberdeen, MD) to BWI; And, if you know the subways or busses in NY, Laguardia and JFK are all within 2 hours of the campus. All options are accessable from 30th St station, just 3 or so blocks from the center of Drexel's campus.
Perhaps instead of organizing busses I should instead set up a kind of travel agency, buying kids tickets to their airports for like a 5 or so Dollar fare, so if a kid was going out of JFK and gave me two weeks notice, I'd get the Septa tickets, the NJT tickets, the Metrocard, and the Airtrain tickets, along with explicit directions (such as "Pay Attention To The Side Route Markers, Do Not Get On a LEFFERTS BLVD "A" Train, only board a FAR ROCKAWAY or ROCKAWAY PARK "A" train), also with directions to get through all the stations and airports (such as going to the eighth ave line, not the seventh in NYP).
I also would like Drexel get it's act together on it's shuttle busses. We have like 6 Blue Bird, 2 or 3 cutaways, and a solitary MC-12 (I think, Non-Septa and NJT busses aren't a hot spot for me). More often than not five Blue Birds will be sitting in out "Depot" at halfway between 33rd and 34th on Ludlow, maybe 1 of the cutouts will be missing, running some High Schoolers around on a high rated tour (for the kids with Nat. Merit and so on, the rest can walk the campus). I'm pretty sure that every time the MC-12 or the Blue Birds in the back of the depot are moved, they have to change the tires, cause they've become flat on one side from the year or so of inactivity.
The service is shoddy as well, a couple of times I've stopped a bus on 34th, heading south, looking like it was headed for Center City, signed up as a "DragonShuttle," asked the driver where he was going, only to get a shrug. Even the driver doesn't know where he's going. A couple of times the busses haven't stopped for me in the city, I was at a corner on market, just west of 20th, holding out my student ID, an unmistakable Blue and Gold color, only to have him floor it past me. This has happened twice. Originally, when planning out my commute to drexel I had planned on catching the PATCO train to 8th and Market, walking down market to 13th, then catching the Drexel shuttle to campus. It's free for students, and I thought that it'd beat the 70 bucks a month for a transpass, or the 2+ mile walk from 16th and Locust to 33rd and chestnut. Unfortunately I made those plans according to last years schedule, which changed this year, the shuttles don't get past 18th St, maybe 2 a day make it all the way to 13th, which is way too hard to try and plan, so I plunked down the 70 bucks end of last month and got a November Transpass.
And finally, they're horribly unpredictable, today I walked up in front of the Student Union, headed for my locker, only to see our MC-12 sitting there, with DragonShuttle on the board, it was unbelievable, sometimes they run a PACKED cutout to Suburban Station, yet this MC-12 was being used to run some Soccer players out to our Athletic fields at 43 and Powelton, just one mile from the Dorms on the north end of campus (and all dorms are on the north side), the thing was empty, and I was in shock.
Sorry for meandering, my point is that I would like to reform my school's Shuttle Bus service, right now nobody can depend upon catching it, so we all kinda shun it, it would be nice to have a shuttle bus that ran on a frequent schedule (like every 20min midday, 5-10 in the morning and evening) operating something like 7am-9:30pm or so, with marked stops, and published schedules. It's really a small route, and we do have like 6 busses, plus 3 or 4 others to back the service up, 4 should be plenty to keep up a 10 minute headway on a short route such as this.
Big probs tonight with the storm. Apparently a major distribution/sub transmission pole was felled, and they gave the pole number on the scanner and a LI Bus stop for the N21 was there. This was on Glen Cove Ave at Shore Rd. The lights flickered here, but most of my town lost power as a result. Came back on within the hour.
I would not want to be waiting for a bus anywhere tonight!
Be safe, it is wicked out there!
"The gales of November come slashing!"
-Gordon Lightfoot (Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald)
You can say that again. Late last evening I was entreated to getting battered by the winds (the "Canyon Effect" sans the snow) and the rain while waiting for the M34 at Eight Avenue.
Makes you wish for that 34th street crosstown subway. :-)
BLX has coma across a website that will give you an aerial shot via satellite for any address/location. Find bus depots, train stations, railroad yards, work, schools or your home. So feel free to punch in the address of your local commuter station or bus depot. BLX has not had enough time to fine tune his entry into the world of aerial view images. So please, check it out and inform BLX if this is a site worth checking into further, and does it provide transit buffs with any info. Oh yeah, it's called TERRAFLY.COM BLX is out, BLX loves you.
I checked it out. It's great! A little tricky in maneuvering but one must get accoustomed to it. I tried getting two bus company locations and Bingo! Very accurate. Thanks for the info.
The pictures aren't very clear at all.
It looks similar to the stuff that microsoft's TerraServer, and Mapquest's Aerial photos give you. It's lower quality than Mapquests, but now mapquest has some kind of restriction on theirs, so thats kinda moot. The photos are basically colorized versions of the Terraderver B/W pictures, not bad resolution, but pretty grainy. One last thing, those photos are old, the WTC is still there, just about the only thing that differentiates it from the Terraserver pictures is that it was taken in the afternoon (shadow to the east), while terraserver's was taken in the morning (shadow to the west). Also I could not find the HBLRT, which makes it at least before 1998 or so, right?
Other than that, it was somewhat fun to use, easier to use than Mapquest or terraserver. Although I'm on a T3 at school right now, hate to think what it'd be like on a 33.6k Aol Dial-up, what with all those graphics to load, especially if you like flying fast.
Our fellow Bus-Talker Thurston a/k/a Mr. T was elected as a Three-year Trustee of the Shoreline Trolley Museum yesterday. Although he works for a bus company he says that he likes rapid transit better. But I'm sure that he will keep an eye on the two remaining Old Looks we have on the property.
Again CONGRATULATIONS ! ! ! ! ! !
Saw this bus running on B25 yesterday while we were doing Ridecheck Survey on B15 & B25. This bus is little out of shape but still running great. I thought this bus was scrap couple year ago & i haven't seen #3669 @ ENY Depot
DNJ
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Yes, I book 4014 almost everyday of the week. It's a little hard reading the numbers on the back since they are very faded. Haven't seen 3669 for several months now either. Probably was finally scrapped.
BIG AL
Has anyone seen #s 1826,4145,and 4536 ????
4145 was at Manhattanville as of 11/8/02; the other two are gone.
The weather was just nasty out there yesterday. Left around 4:45pm, took 4 hours. Started out by taking 8564 on the B68 to Pritchard Sq, then I went downstairs to catch a R46 F at 15 St, caught the F just in time and took it to Jay St, where I would wait a few minutes until a R44 A arrived. A nice express run to Broadway Junction/East New York. Before I left, I went to the MTA website and to make sure the L train GO was on. So out of curiosity, I click on the G and it says trains are running every 30 minutes between Hoyt St and Forest Hills. Did anyone ride the G and if you did, was it reall every 1/2 hour?
Back to the story, so I exit the station in the rain & go outside and I see 8008 but it was packed so I let it go. 10 minutes later, I wait for 8216 to arrive. Not as much buses as in other GO's w/shuttle buses. As I thought, there was no express service[supposed to be direct service btw B'way Junction & Rockaway Pkwy] as they promised. Anyway, its a good ride and since I didn't feel like going back so quick, I decide to take a round trip on the B42[shuttle buses used the B42 bodarding area so 42's used the B6/B82 boarding area]. So I wait 10 minues for 4410 to show up and after that, we are off towards the pier and I get off at Seaview Av for some reason. Anyway, the wind was intense, the rain was light but the windy conditions forget it. So I wait for about 12 minutes before the next 42, 4414 shows up. These kids in the bus were very rowdy, cursing, talking loud and this lady told them to have some manners, in which they quieted down[sort of]. So I arrive back at the train station and go on the next waiting shuttle bus.
I resume my ride on the shuttle bus. So the rain clears up for now so I catch 8321 and I go back to B'way, man that portion of the L needs some brightening up, it looked like a abandoned rail line, well it is this weekend [maybe they should have parked a few R143's on the tracks so drivers & people could see the stations lol ;-)] and I was ready to go home but then I see 9321 and I decide to wait for it and when it came, most of the people were shocked to see a bus like this. This guy was making some weird movements on the bus throughout the trip, stomping his feet, talking to himself, kept dropping his newspaper and I just shook my head. So I take that back to Rockaway Pkwy but as we were turning on Stanley Av/Foster Av, I see what looks like a car fire on Snediker Av and it looked real intense. Good driving throughout the trip. I'll continue in a next post.
If the (L) shuttle were to run between Myrtle Av./Wyckoff Av. and Bway Junct., then I would have rode it.
Continuing where I left off.. So we arrive at Rokaway Pkwy & I hop onto 8525 and we wait here for about 8-10 minutes, it starts raining on and off and then we finally move on and we do good until we are held at the intersection of Snediker Av & Stanley Av for a couple of minutes b/c of fire trucks[at the time the rain had stopped]. They clear the road & we proceed via Snediker and we turn R on Atlantic Av, L on Penn Av, L on Jamaica Av, R on B'way then a left on Van Sinderen and I arrive back at the station. Then I have to wait about 10 minutes before a R44 A train arrives [I had no idea where the C was since a lot of people were waiting for it] and I take the A to Jay St, where I have to wait about 10-12 minutes for a F to arrive, which is ridiculous b/c its supposed to be every 8 min, it was only 8:15 and the train ran out of seats at one point. Then I take that to 18 Av and then I wait in the rain for RTS 8543 on the B8 and I take it home.
Some observsations:
1. Not enough shuttle buses on the GO.
2. No C train in sight, I wonder how long it took to arrive at B'way
3. Not enough A trains
4. F is way too slow on weekends
5. Saw R32 GE's 3892/3893 coupled to MK R32's. I like the MK's but more 32's should have been rebuilt by GE
6. Saw lots of R38's with "wonder tape" and/or "brown superglue" on their roofs. How come some roofs are fine but others aren't?
Here are the buses I saw:
ENY: 8094,5229
FB: 8321,9397
JG: 8095,8525
FP: 8008,8136,5062
UP: 7513,9321
126: 8216,5051
RTS 8564 B68
R46 6087(F)
R44 5255(A)
RTS 8216(L shuttle)
RTS 4410 B42
RTS 4414 B42[Return]
RTS 8321 (L shuttle)
RTS 9321 (L shuttle)
RTS 8525 (L shuttle)
R44 5337(A)
R46 5525(F)
RTS 8543 B8
The G train GO of every 30mins is during the late nights only.
NYTC--New York Transit Center has the following updated:
1)Bus Terminal, Green Line Bus is being added under NYC DOT
2)NYC MTA Orion is updated
Photo of the month: Long Island Bus @Stony Brook Station
NYTC
PS:Some other parts in NAtransit are still haveing problems, hopefully they will be fixed soon.
We all know that with the inpending doom of cut bus service and increased fares.However there has been no mention of equipment orders being put on hold.Have the orders for the Orion VII and NFD60HF been placed on hold?I was just wondering,cause weren't these buses suppose to be arriving on TA properties by now.
The buses are due by the end of the year. It's not the end of the year yet :-)
The contracts have definitely NOT been canceled.
David
Thanks
So why is NYC purchasing New Flyer HFs...because of their higher capacity? I think the LF is better looking overall, but I presume they are looking more at practicality than aesthetics at this point.
And why are they not getting some of the last RTS buses made? DDOT in Detroit is getting new ones in through 2003. Surely I thought that NYC would follow suit as the RTS is a staple of their system?
-F.
RE: New Flyer artics
IIRC, the artics that the TA is scheduled to recieve was part of an option exercised prior to the budget crisis. These will be the last New Flyer high-floor buses ever built.
Wow..so New Flyer will be all low-floor? That is not surprising; i'm surprised the HF lasted this long. Compared to the other fleet models, it is just plain UGLY.
-F.
NYCT stopped purchasing the RTS's because they did not want any more buses with diesel engines. They would like all new purchases to be either CNG or Hybred Electric. Many believe this is what led to the RTS's demise, when transit (NOVA's largest customer) stopped placing orders for the RTS.
BIG AL
Not to mention the fact that many transit authorities are going to low-floor buses to speed trips and save on lift maintenance.
I should know. Rutgers University is now using the low-riders (and articulated ones, at that) for similar reasons. (It heavily depended on Flxibles and RTS buses in the past, and still uses plenty of RTSes.)
But where are the Flxes now?
And further decrease capacity per coach.
-f.
Weird! That just seems so un-NYC; however, if pollution, etc. is really bad, it is understandable. Who made the non-diesel decision?
-F.
The funds for these units were appropriated already i'm sure.
Just know you maybe killing the chances of getting more of your kind off of the road and onto mass transit. There is a report I saw on the news that more SUVs and trucks are polluting the air in the D.C. area so much that they might not meet 2004 EPA standards, which could mean that Congress would put the kybash(sp?) on funding for transit, as well as road construction(why do we need it and people don't want a new road anyway, save the ICC and even that is in debate). If pollution levels don't meet the 2004 standards for reducing pollution, then the transit funding that runs out in 2004 and up for renewal, might not include D.C. That would mean no rail to Dullus, no more rail cars for expansion, no more buses for expansion and maybe raise taxes out the *** to pay for the stuff that the feds won't fund if pollution levels aren't met. Of course this is directed to BIG*** SUV drivers who feel that bigger is better. If you want bigger, may I suggest a good bus, or better yet, ditch that beohemith(sp?) and board a forty footer or two. Just my opinion, unless you want more congestion and more traffic and taking two years to get two blocks.
P.S. Why take a car to run errands, take a bus, make it a trip. I do.
Now if P.G. would invest in running buses more than they are doing now, I wouldn't need a car at all.
Now lets see a Ford Excursion Stand Up To THAT!
T.
WhOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Mommy dearest, I want one of THOSE!!!
Coming to a social club near you:
"So what kind of SUV do YOU have, Mr. Logan?"
"Oh, a D4000 Cruiser."
"Ooh....never heard of that. How big?"
"40 feet, with 22.5 inch rims".
"Impressive. Got cupholders?"
"Who needs 'em? I have diesel power and extra luggage space".
"YIPES! And I was going to get a wussy little Expedition." (Walks away with a stinging sense of penis envy.)
LOL!!!
-F.
Actually..........
Our D4000s do have cup holders for the operator, driver's area temperature control, air ride seat with lumar support, etc.
LOL!
Regards,
Trevor
I see; wasn't sure. What a nice setup; the D4000s sound like the Cadillac of buses. Rub it ALL in an SUV driver's face...LOL! Hey, what kind of power combo do those have?
Speaking of Cadillacs, have you seen the new Greyhound G-Series? I swear, their high-mount LED vertical stoplights remind me of a DTS. All you need is OnStar and leather, and you've got the touch! I think those buses are smooth looking but have heard they ride cruddy and are not well made. Can anyone shed some light on this?
-F.
Our D4000s have a 11.1L Detroit Diesel Series 60, 370 HP & Allison B500R World Transmission with 6-Speed Overdrive.
Regards,
Trevor
I see; so how well do they haul? I hear the Series 60 is fairly powerful. Especially in those 95 Flxes at Baltimore you told me about.
-F.
>>I see; wasn't sure. What a nice setup; the D4000s sound like the Cadillac of buses. Rub it ALL in an SUV driver's face..<<
Well...the SUV can pull up to the drive thru window at Mickey D's. Let's see the big MCI do that without removing the canopy !!
Bill "Newkirk"
During the last pick, I pulled to my start to early in Nanuet. There was a Mikky D's with out a canopy, you bet your sweet ass I pulled that MCI right up to the drive thru!
The McD's employees were shocked but histerically laughing! I got my Hotcakes and pushed on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
That's pretty good (and funny). I would've loved to have seen that. It reminds me of the time one of my buddies told me that he took his Academy MCI 96-A3 on the Staten Island ferry. I still think he may have been BS'ing me.
Wayne
Not really, the Kennedy Class ferries hold buses too! And I've seen that with my own two.
NEVER EVER under-estimate a bus. I've done some shit that you wouldn't believe, The McD's Deal is minor, e-mail me, I'll be glad to share!
Trevor
>>The McD's employees were shocked but histerically laughing! I got my Hotcakes and pushed on!<<
Weren't you sitting higher up for the drive thru speaker and window ?
Bill "Newkirk"
I was at mouth level with the speaker, though a MCI looks to be VERY high, the driver's area sits slightly lower than the passenger seats, HOWEVER i did have to hop out the bus to get the food from the lady, I had a shit hard time getting my window reopened after I slamed it shut after giving my order.
Trevor
We tried taking one of our 30' Flx Metros through a Taco Bell Drive thru the day I was going for my CDL road trip back in 1993. The trainer thought he'd be slick and get the bus through the tight turn but got wedged in. I had to go out and get the cars behind us to move back so I could be the spotter for him while he backed the bus out. I do know one of our drivers successfully got his 40' Flx Metro through a Burger King drive thru sometime after that.
This is the same guy that almost got fired for taking passengers on his bus during a bus roadeo and went flying through the serpentine. The screams coming from that bus sounded like they were on a rollercoaster.
"and went flying through the serpentine. The screams coming from that bus sounded like they were on a rollercoaster."
Sounds like a typical Saturday night's last trip after I got through a slow boil of people pissing me off all day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hehe that occurr in septa alot.
When I was a kid, we rode the "K" bus in Philly. It used to go to Stenton & Washington Lane. We would wait for K-13 , and our favorite
bus driver, "Birney". All the way up Stenton av, we'd yell, Go, go, go, and he would backfire the bus. We had the old Mack C-40's with the floorshift and no clutch! Some kind of hydraulic tranny, I guess.
At the top of the hill , sometimes he would cut through the Howard Johnson's parking lot and we would scream like hell when he did it!
Chuck Greene
LOL! I miss those days! Whenever I was running early, the Univ. of MD campus has a traffic circle and I used to go around and around a few times just for fun. It was great doing it on a late night circuit run with a bunch of drunks on board!
That vehicle up there would make an excursion shrink to a teenie tiny size. More power too, bigger, badder, better. They might intimidate a Yugo but they cry when being stared down by a big, bad, diesel chewing, I eat SUVs for lunch, dinner and desert, bus.
One question - What is the breakdown of the ownership of the Buses at NYBS?
I know the GMC/MCI Classics are DOT, but does NYBS own the Fishbowls and the MCI D4500s?
If they do own those, what will happen to them?
Also, if the DOT owned the Fishbowls, why did they not have them replaced already?
Breakdown.....
The GMDD Fishbowls will more than like get thier retirement or be sold off at this point. The GMDD Classic may very well also because those three (#1600-1602) were purchased by NYBS and not the DOT.
The MCI Classis will just be redistributed to the company (more than likely Liberty Lines Express since they are the main candidates for the lines) for use.
Now NYBS was in the middle of a MCI Commuter Cruiser order, word has it that now Triboro is getting MCIs and these may very well be the NYBS ordered Cruisers. so IF this is the case then those 6 D4500 Cruisers may be on thier way to Triboro. Liberty Lines Express can't use them because of the access to the yard is restricted due to a few turns, hills and underpasses.
Hope this info helps.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Man, I hope those NYBS Fishbowls are passed on to worthy owners. It will be a sad day in NYC when the last Fish is used in regular service. Will there be any ceremonies for them or gatherings by us BusTalkers to ride them on the last day?
-F.
Fred,
In regards to the GM/Canada fishbowls my thoughts are the same. However, more than likely once they're sold they'll never look as good as they are now again. I'll have to come to NYC and get my last rides. I'll miss NYBS. Arrigoni (sp?) runs a tight ship. Somewhere in my mother's house I have a NY Daily News clipping from 1982 about NYBS. It was an article from The Bronx section and I remember the author mentioning the immaculate condition of NYBS' buses. I guess to demonstrate how well they care for their buses... Arrigoni had arranged to have one of their (then) brand spanking new GMDD (T8H-5308A) parked next to a 1959-1962 SDH-5301. The writer found it hard to believe that these nearly identical buses had 20 years between them. #1498 was in the photo. I hope I can find that clippping.
Wayne
Is anyone interested in an organized after-work ride up to the Bronx? I've been meaning to do it since the retirement of the Fishbowls was rumored over a year ago, and I haven't yet. How about meeting at Madison Sq at 6:00, get the first Fishbowl to Pelham Bay Park; Queensites can take the QBx1 home; everyone else can hop the 6.
Anyone interested?
I'm there. Pick a date. I've also been meaning to do it forever.
I'd rather take one of the lines that connects to the 2/5, since getting from the 6 to the UWS is a pain (three transfers or a slow crosstown bus ride), but I'll settle for anything. OTOH, maybe I'll use this as an excuse to check out the QBx1.
Oh, I should probably mention that my days of preference are Thursday, Wednesday, Monday, and Tuesday, from best to worst.
The most likely day that the Fishbowls take their last trip will be Friday January 10th which is the last workday that New York Bus Service will operate if the company makes good with its threat and ceases operation.
I believe they use the fishbowls for peak reush service only
Thank You
Good idea. I wouldn't mind doing a ride (even though I'm technically from New Jersey).
This Thursday, December 12, Madison Square Park, first Fishbowl after 5:45 on the BxM7 or 7A to Pelham Bay Park. I'll have to check out later in the week exactly where the stops are.
The next few weeks are your last chances to ride New Looks in regular service in New York City. Be there!
I'd rather ride either 1600 1601 or 1602. For those of you who do not know what these buses are, they're the 1984 GMC Classics.
And I hear 1602 every weekday morning going down 5th Ave. That bus makes such a wonderful groaning sound that you can hear for blocks away. Anybody who wants a pic, email me and place in the subject line NYBS 1602.
PS I also have a pic of 1600.
Boy will NYBS be missed.
:(
#1602 Manhattan Express BXM7A
RE:NYBS 1600-1602... I agree... I like all Classics, but those 3 GMDD Classics have that extra sweet sound to them.
Wayne
F#@*!!! Guess who is going to miss out because they just can't make it up there? Enjoy it for me...and get some audio/video. History is still ending before my very eyes....:(
Most of you know "I just work for a bus company", so I won't be joining my friend Mike on this Field Trip, BUT I think you busfans have a great opportunity here ... a nice Express bus ride up into the Bronx, then you can catch the #6 back to Manhattan, or even better, take the QBX-1 over the Whitestone bridge into Queens. That should be a great ride in of itself ! A-N-D the best part is you get to do it with your friends, some of which you may not yet have met.
So, I wish you all a very pleasent trip & look forward to your report & photos !
Fishbowl to the Bronx, 5:45 PM, Madison Square, BxM7 or 7A. My jacket is three shades of gray, and I'll have a Yankees hat on. Hope to see you there.
So, once the MCI Classics are slated for retirement, what kind of buses would NYCDOT plan on purchasing for Liberty Lines?
nycDOT isn't going to BUY anything right now. The ones of which you speak were already in the pipeline.
If the MTA takeover doesn't happen, THEN they'll hopefully do something about replacing their aging fleet.
TRIBORO???!!! It would be great to see Cruisers in their new TCC paint scheme HOWEVER they would park them in the street-easy target for vandals. Not a good idea.
Green would also be a good canidate since they need Express Buses desperately. 701-702 719-722 and their 5500s is not enough for their Express Lines. And 719-722 came from NYBS. They don't look too shabby. 5500S FORGET ABOUT IT!!!
Didn't QSC test some MCI Crusiers in their depot some time back?
I can see those 6 buses going to QSC for their Express Lines.
Either that or just renumber them to 2925-2930 for the MTA and let those Extra go to a depot that needs them.
Sad to see such a good company like NYBS go but as I said earlier-this is ONLY the beginning.
#1800 BXM7
Ok. When they are to come to Triboro? And can't they send it to QSC as well?
Whadda ya mean NYBS is going ouuta the bus business??...I'm in VA. so I have no clue as to what happens in NYC.
NY Bus Service has informed nycDOT of their intention to discontinue Express bus service into Manhattan. This will effect 15,000 riders & 240 employees. nycDOT says if they do it they will develop contingency plans.
NY Bus ownes some of the fleet they use for these nycDOT Franchised routes.
Thurston, I thank You for that valuable information...I'm in the Navy stationed in Virginia and don't really keep up with the news.
Hey Gonzo, in a similar thaught of VA, have you been on the HRT busses on base? If so, what do you think about the #2 (Hampton Blvd), #3 (Chesapeke) and # 15 (Crosstown) going thru the base? Rumors have it that they are considering eliminating both (2 and 15) routes going thru Gates 2 and 5. Because of ID checking causing delays especially in the AM rush. I too work for the NAVY and I was talking to one of the operators about it. They are not even considering brining back the #51 (base shuttle). I am trying to get other people's opinion on how to improve service on several HRT routes especially after the traffic referrandum got shot down on election day.
Okay, today is November 18th...so let the shuttles begins! This morning I saw an Orion 05.501 bus (number was unknown) going westbound on Sunrise Hwy. I do believe that they will use Sunrise Hwy rather than Montauk Hwy because it's better BUT the buses will have to double back to get to Hampton Bays. Here's a brief exit summary:
Sunrise Hwy (NYS 27...yes, the same NYS 27 that runs in Brooklyn on the Prospect Expwy and Linden Blvd and North/South Conduit Avs in Queens):
Exit 65S - Hampton Bays
Exit 63S - Westhampton Beach (Westhampton)
From their, the buses will use Montauk Hwy because there is no exit for Speonk on the Sunrise Hwy. Was suppose to be one but they never built it.
The second bus I saw was Orion 05.501 bus #636 with the MTA LI Bus scheme. This bus had about four people on it and it said LIRR Shuttle BUT what was funny about this bus was the engine was exposed. Meaning that the cover was opened and anybody could jst throw water in the engine and POOF!
Joe Saitta,
Will these be the ONLY two buses on this route? If so, then I won't post this everyday BUT if not, then I will keep everybody posted on the latest.
BTW, There are TWO buses. One leaves from Montauk and the other one leaves from East Hampton (I could be wrong so please correct me.)
More later.
I was checking out the utcny.org website to see if the Blitz Bus Numbers was posted (it's not) but I stumbled across the NYCT Bus Roster. So many buses have been scrapped! For example,
Buses #4354, #4516, #4544, #4761, #4776, #4788, #7514, #7524 are just a few with many buses stored like buses #4577, #4889? (I thought that was scrapped)
So, let the NEW buses COME ON DOWN!
Speaking of scrapped buses, isn't the Carlton Avenue Yard a scrap yard? I saw 13 RTS buses, 1 Orion bus, and three MCIs (#1951, 2100, and 2150, specifically). Can anyone shed some light on that?
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Carlton isn't a scrapyard, but the buses stored there usually don't make it back into service. I doubt the MCIs are pending scrap; maybe awaiting repair from accident damage?
The MCI's definitely are not being scrapped. Could also be waiting to be sent back to the vendor.
I have a question for you, RIPTA42HopeTunnel. What exactly does your handle mean, or stand for? I always wondered about that.
BIG AL
I have a question for you, RIPTA42HopeTunnel. What exactly does your handle mean, or stand for? I always wondered about that.
Just something long and complicated, so other posters would misspell it in their killfiles.
No, it's a Rhode Island Public Transit Authority bus route, 42 Hope-Tunnel (Hope St, via Tunnel), the closest route to my house in the city of my youth, Pawtucket. It terminates at Main St & Roosevelt Ave in downtown Pawtucket. Now I live in Flushing...
Can't stay away from the corner of Main St & Roosevelt Ave, I see.
the three mci buses from yukon are awaiting parts from mci. orion 473 suffered an engine fire and is awaiting its final trip to nimco along with most of the rest of the buses in that yard.
Well this trip didn't go as great as most of my trips, that being forces outside of buses. Let me explain.
The last bus trip I took, my camera died, the battery I bought was also dead, which lead to today. Before the bus trip began, went to Shoppers to get a camera battery, they had none, did get a 2-liter bottle of Pepsi Blue though. Went to Giants (both are grocery stores) and got the battery. I also got a throw away camera, just in case my battery didn't work, or something else was wrong with the camera. Well I left the house and left my normal camera at home and had to run to Target to get another one along with some film, not knowing I really wouldn't need it. That was the bad part, the good part is....
I started my bus trip with 63038 (The Bus, Thomas TL960, route 21) towards New Carrolton. Now usually I would get an all day transfer so I won't have to keep paying for every 2nd bus trip, but the bus driver didn't have any, so I paid the regular fare (actually mistakenly shorted the fare by ten cents. I got to New Carrolton and got 4032 (WMATA Flxible E, R12(Landover), bus-Landover). The fare machine was not working, and I overpaid by about 50 cents for the all day transfer, because of it. Took the bus to Greenbelt and had to take a diversion to Target to get a new camera. Took 4369 (WMATA, Orion 5 diesel, C2(Montgomery), bus (Montgomery, ex Bladensburg), back to Greenbelt, and caught 4390 (WMATA, Orion 5 surburban, B30(Landover), bus (Landover), and since I was running late(ON A BUS TRIP), took the light rail to Patapsco, instead of taking the 17.
When I got to Patapsco, I caught 9080 (Baltimore MTA, Flxible B, 51 (Bush?), bus (Bush?), to Mondawmin and took a little break. After leaving, Mondawmin took the subway to Owings Mills and ate some lunch and readied for the trip back towards home. One note about 9080, this bus is the first bus I have been on ( a regular diesel bus) that had almost all face to face seating ( sat in the only two pair forward facing seats).
Part two begins with me catching 9742 (Baltimore MTA, NABI 416, M9(Northern), bus-Northern) from Owings Mills Subway Station enroute to Reistertown Plaza Station and then caught 8858 (Baltimore MTA, Flxible B, M10(Bush), bus (Bush?)) to Roger's Avenue Station and caught the 51 back to Patapsco on 8729 (Baltimore MTA, Flxible B, route (Bush), bus (unknown)).
After catching the light rail back to BWI Business District Station, I waited for the B30 to come along. There were two people waiting for this bus, one who just missed the bus by about 10 minutes and another who apparently just got there. I thought I just missed the bus, that was supposed to leave at 4:51, but it never came. THE BUS DIDN'T COME UNTIL AROUND 6:00. During that time had to take a bathroom break, get change and still had plenty of time to catch the bus. The main reason was three-fold. 1)The usual BW Parkway northbound backup combined with 2)Southbound BW Parkway backup and 3) construction around BWI with lanes blocked. It was so bad around BWI, that a Baltimore NABI passed by the BWI Business District station about 10 minutes before I took the light rail to BWI, and passed the bus on the light rail (considering that bus trip would only take about a couple of minutes) and was there a good 5 minutes before that bus came to the airport. At around 6PM, the bus finally came an loaded up. I hoped that the bus would go to the light rail station to pick those people up, if another bus didn't come, and it did. Now this bus route would go from the airport to the light rail station and back to the airport, enroute to Greenbelt. It just went to the light rail station and went to directly to Greenbelt. As I said, BW Parkway southbound traffic was congested, so it took a while, played leap frog with 2085 (ex Southeast, Orion 6, now at Landover, WMATA). I was riding on 4394 (WMATA, Orion 5 surburban, B30(Landover), bus-Landover). Finally got to Greebelt, caught 2048 (WMATA, Orion 6, R12(Landover), bus (Landover), with bike rack and camera), to New Carrolton and caught 9774 (WMATA, Flxible D, F14 (Landover), bus-Landover), home. This bus still has the flag in it.
A couple of other notes. 4032's engine sounded bad, like it was replaced with a combo DD50/WMATA RTS 6V92 engine. Also, not only did 4032 had a farebox problem, so did 2048.
The following, I observed with bike racks, all Landover:
4032, 4083, 4084, 9364, 4390, 4391, 4394, 2048(also with camera), 2085, 4269, 8808, 8812 and 4033
Orion VI on the B30? That must have been interesting...
Actually the Orion 6 was on the 87, but a month ago, Orion 2060 was on a B30, which was odd, because at the same time, a B30 bus was on the 87, which was highly odd.
Hello, there. Would you be kind enough to post the Balto. MTA and WMATA bus garage assignments by fleet # and route#? Thank you.
Its been done a few times, or at least attempted. The WMATA buses are shifted around so much though, that it would be hard to pinpoint where they are. A lot of routes are split between garages, too.
There is a great Baltimore MTA source that posts on here once in awhile and he'd have the insight on your MTA questions.
Between all of the DC correspondents on here, I'm sure we can try to patchwork it together.
I am sure we could definately do the routes and probably get an approximate roster. I'd even be willing to host it on my site provided maintaining it doesn't take too much of my time (in other words, don't complain if it isn't updated).
I wouldn't worry about it being not updated, the way its going if it isn't updated, the way these garage swaps are going, they'll end up back at the garage they were at when it was done to begin with.
I meant on an immediate basis. I do not want to be flooded with e-mails saying "I want to see an updated depot-by depot roster". I'd be willing to host it at first, and if it became a problem, take it down. Clearly, you, Ballston/1C, and other DC area people would provide me with the info and then I would change it as my schedule permits. As far as I know, I am the only DC area BusTalker who has webspace.
I was going to post a route number by garage, with future garages and possible route tranfers.
Between all of that, I'm sure we'd get a good roster together. WMATA doesn't add or discontinue routes too much anyway. It would be cool just to see it in writing for those that have an interest.
Whenever the older buses start shifting around, I end up giving up on trying to figure out where those guys end up! The newer ones are always in groups so its a lot easier. In my mind, I was wondering if I'd see some 9300 Flx Metro B's running around in VA, other than the 9390's. Its kind of neat to see a bus like 9321 that's run all over DC and parts of MD, now gets to do a lot of traveling in VA.
The big question is where will the Neoplans go when they arrive. Most likely split between Bladensburg and Montgomery. The next order of CNGs are supposed to be 225 for Four Mile Run and 25 for Bladnesburg, most likely 2500-2749.
You mean something like Trevor's depot by depot listing? I think we have the manpower to do it, we just need the webspace (which I am willing to provide if people are understanding that I won't always be able to do immediate updates of the page sometimes). This way, it will always be accessible to everyone and we won't have to go through the archives on BusTalk.
Baltimore MTA rosters I don't know, I do know that there are four bus garages, which are Kirk, Bush, Eastern and Northern (I hope I am right).
As for WMATA, YEAH RIGHT! LOL!!! WMATA's buses changes garages more often, then seconds pass. I do know that recently, some of Southeast's Orion 6s 2085-2098 were swapped with Landover's 4274 or 5 to 4286. I did post a garage assignment by when the buses were either first delivered or is known to reside at. One garage assignment that didn't put up but might have been true was that the original allotment of 8700-8745 went to Prince George's (now known as the Annex). When Landover opened, 8700-8725 were transferred to Landover and 8726-8745, along with 8746-8749 were transferred to Southeast.
Here's something for a change of paste on this board. In another post, I had asked a bustalker what his handle meant. Looking at this board, I see many handles and am just curious what they mean and why they were chosen.
The following handles for instance: CPCTC
caine824
Wmatagmoagh (I know about Wmata)
1C/Ballston
ctrabs74
Qtraindash7
GP38Chris
DA74
RTS T80 806
Fishbowl474 (why 474)
and lastly BLX
Thanks to everybody listed who responds and to anybody else not listed who cares to share why they picked their handle.
BIG AL (P.S. my nickname at my previous job)
I'll go first here. WMATA is as you know, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. GM is General Manager (which I am not but one never knows...) and OAGH are my initials.
I am quite sure I know why 1C/Ballston and Qtraindash7 have their handles but I will let them answer for themselves.
Well with me and my handle,I absoultely love the V train just as much as I love the B47 bus.With both,I guess I love em because I just do.
I'm probably the lone believer that the V has done the job it was made to do,those who don't,oh well too bad.And with the B47? it's partially because 47 is one of my many favorite number's and partially because I really do like the route the way it's runned.It was about time those TA planners had a light bulb go off in thier tiny brains and come up with a very useful plan instead of the more harm done than good one's they've come up with over the years.
No, you are not the lone one who feel that way about the "V" train. You definately have company in yours truly.
No, you are not the lone one who feel that way about the "V" train. You definately have company in yours truly.
Me too. The V does what it is supposed to do - relieve passenger levels on Queens Blvd, by providing another route into Manhattan. It's a plus for everyone (except G riders of course). Before the V passengers at the local stations west of Continental had only one choice to Manhattan - now they have two.
I'm glad that most of the people here are pro-V as I admit I am. I often visit the Strappies' forums and they are dead against it.
You guys got another supporter for the V [well it could be serviced better but it reduced crowding on the F].
Looking at this board, I see many handles and am just curious what they mean and why they were chosen.
GP38Chris
Well, you may not know me over here at BusTalk too much, because I don't post here too often (although do read every so often). I am a regular at SubTalk though.
Anyway, As you can tell I am more of a rail/sub fan than a bus fan, and that's where my handle comes from. When I first joined Subtalk, I joined as "GP38" because I used to post at the LIRR forum and wanted to keep things consistent. GP38-2's are locomotives that used to run on the LIRR (and still do on the New York & Atlantic, which took over the LIRR's freight business).
Ironically, I don't post too often on the LIRR forum anymore, and the GP38's were replaced by new trains, but I still have great memories of them running on the LIRR.
Well recently, I added Chris (obviously my name) to my original just "GP38" handle....so there it is...GP38 Chris.
When I first signed on, I had no idea what to use, then I thought of what my favorite bus route was. I live in the Ballston section of Arlington, which is the destination of several bus routes as well as a stop on the Metrorail Orange line. The route 1C is a great route as it goes by my office, my apt. in Ballston, as well as to one of my favorite malls and is a pretty cool route as its long and has a great stretch where it goes pretty fast. Its lame, I know!! LOL.
Heres mine
When Eny 1st got the split runs with Ulmer i got a 7 hour 2 trip run with an hour boost while the other 16 runs were of the 12 hour variety . The B8 during the rush (AM , School , & PM ) is a heavy line with the Flatbush lines crossing , and the 18th / FosterAve traffic . During my 3 plus years on the line i kept picking the 2 trip runs while the oldtimers got the big runs . No offense but the oldtimers didnt didnt care about staying on schedule knowing they would get put in place later on .My quirk was that it was either meal or going home and i hated a crowded bus , so i lets say drove the hell out my buses ( shhh, catching my leader) . The seniors and operators gave me the nickname tazz because all they saw was a blur when i drove by em . When i got my aol account tazonB8 was taken . so i dropped the B .
1979 is my birthyear and the MCI Cruiser is 1 of my favorite bus models that's on the road for the MTA now.
YOURS TRULY,
#1979 X1
Didn't you have another BusTalk handle?
:o
Hey man, where does "Brooklyn67" come from, especially from a Queens Transit guy?
BIG AL
I'm originally from Brooklyn. Born in 1967. Very imaginative, eh?
Matter of fact, while I was still living in Brooklyn at the time, I started the job as an OA (MaBSTOA) Operator out of Manhattanville. I then 'transferred' to Brooklyn Division where I worked at Gleason. When my Queens transfer came through (and it was perfect timing, because the little woman and I had planned to buy a home 'out-east'), Queens Village seemed optimum because (a) it is right off the Cross Island, (b) it has ample employee parking, and (c) it had (at the time) only an RTS fleet. Those of you who know me know I abhor the Onion.
Anyway, born and raised in Brooklyn (Marine Park JHS, James Madison HS, Kingsborough CC), and did all the 'Brooklyn things' like stoopball, stickball, punchball, whiffleball, skelley, ringolevio, RCK, RCF (whatever...) stoopball baseball, full-tackle football on concrete streets (Marine Parkway), softball teams, football teams, etc. (Matter of fact, I played against (pitched to) Mario Cuomo in a stickball game front of my house).
Of course, in the early 80's, "Cruisin' 86th Street was the thing to do. That, pool halls, bowling alleys, hanging on "The Highway" (Kings Highway), then Nostrand Park, then Club B, Heatwave and the rest.
No place on earth like good ol Brooklyn.
But that's probably more than you wanted to know... lol
if you were to hang out on the highway now you would have to learn russian
Sure did. Here are a few that I had that I can remember off hand:
Amtrak AEM-7 #951-1ST Amtrak Ride
R142A #7215-1st new R142/R142A subway car that I ever saw.
Q46#8357Gary-need I say any more?
BUSMAN316-I felt Stone Cold-What? What? What?
Boy was Stone Cold such a Stoonad for beating his wife. His presence in the WWE is sure missed.
I think I got them all.
#8357 Q46 (Has this bus been REPOWERED???!!!)
Back in '96 I was so happy to find SubTalk that I immediately threw in my name, At that time BusTalk didn't exist and we'd just have the occasional bus related thread amongst the rail threads. IIRC, many of the SubTalkers at the time used their names - first & last and some just the first. Actually - I did consider changing my handle recently, but of course it's yet to happen.
Wayne
Same here, although I didn't post much until I moved back to NYC last year.
DaRidgewoodBusBuff. Its pretty simple:
I didn't make it TheRidgewoodBusBuff because it looks so plain. So thats the reason I started it with "Da"
Ridgewood, Queens is the neighborhood I live in(a.k.a Fresh Pond territory), and know very well. However, I was actually born in Brooklyn, in Bushwick that is.
BusBuff, a person who has an interest for buses.
I also love the J/M/L subway lines.
-
11/15/02
B13- RTS #5072
Back in ye ole days (300MHz was the bomb, no?), before ye powered wagons were invented, there was only SubTalk. "ar" means Azumah Rail, which was one of the MANY original names for my future transport firm (yes, there was a bus component, ab). Although the firm is now named TransportAzumah, I keep it as a historical footnote.
The TDH-5301 GM Fishbowl bus, my favorite of all time, first hit the streets of Brooklyn almost exactly the day I was born. In December of 1959. And I assume that "Mack The Knife" by Bobby Darren was playing on many radios at the time, though that has nothing to do with my handle.
I picked a "Honeymooners" reference for my handle because...
1. It was a great show;
2. Both Ralph Kramden and I have transit-oriented jobs (but I'm NOT a B/O); and
3. I have the same last name as one of the minor recurring characters.
I picked mine because I love Mass transit. Busses, trolleys, trackless trolleys, and subways and trains. "Transit" (for Mass transit) and ChuckG , my first name and last initial.
Chuck Greene
RTS T80 206 is simply the "technical" model number for one of my favorite transit buses of all time - the standard, 40x102, narrow front door RTS-II, those made after 1986.
It means RTS (Rapid Transit Series) T (transit bus) 8 (eight five-foot modules) 0 (position not in use after the -04 model; once used to describe the engine) 2 (102 inch width) 06 (mark 06).
Hey - cool topic! Thanks for bringing it up! I was wondering about some of these monikers myself.
The reason why I chose this screen name is because it was the first NovaBus I rode. Bus #8948 on the Q17 to Flushing during my senior year in Bayside HS.
Mr t, that's me. I work in the Transportation industry, I'm not Mr T, but rather it's Thurston or Mr rt because I love Rapid Transit A-N-D my name is R.T. Clark. Just part of having a little fun here.
Now is it Q-7, i.e. those great Green buses from the Rockaways, or a fast #7, i.e. the last of the Red Bird territory, or what that is the reason that our friend form Glen Cove calls himself.
I picked my RailBus handle because I consider myself an 'all purpose' transit fan - I enjoy buses, light rail, subway, commuter rail, passenger rail, all the way up to heavy-duty freight railroading. I guess I'm just an 'intermodal' kinda guy!
Jim D.
My handle in short: first initial, middle initial, last name, year of birth.
Like some other bus talkers, I had thought about getting a more SEPTA related handle, but it's too much of a pain right now...
Well, I picked my name because I live around the Flatbush area[I also took "Flatbush" b/c of the depot named after it & I thought it would make sense] and the 41 comes from well, The B41, the route I've been riding for a long time, before LTD service came on the route and its one of my favorite bus routes. May not sound so excig but I had to come up with something lol.
"May not sound so excig but I had to come up with something lol."
My fault, I meant to say May not sound so exciting but I had to come up with something LOL.*
The B-41 is one of your favorite bus routes?? I don't know, that's your opinion, but I've been riding that route since 1964, and I still haven't found anything good about it. Except maybe the segment between Eastern Parkway and Empire Boulevard, where it zips through the Prospect Park/Botanical Gardens area. Even with the LTD service, the rest of the route takes forever!
If I had to pick a favorite Brooklyn bus route, it would probably be the B-8. That's because of the interesting demographical changes of the ridership and the neighborhoods throughout the route. The B-6 would be the runner up in that regard.
Yeah, I also like the 41 b/c of the portion between Eastern & Empire Blvd but now drivers don't drive through it as fast through that as they used to :-\. I do agree that it is too slow but this happens basically b/c of traffic. The B8 happens to be one of my favorite routes also but it is unreliable at times and bunches up constantly, 7 days a week but I have no #1 favorite so I pick a few routes from the 5 boroughs and a few subway lines & call them my favorites.
The B82 will NEVER be a favorite although I like the speed via Kings Hwy & Flatlands Av.
Basically, bus drivers in the city have just gotten slower over the years due to the MTA's standard of safety, which is good but slowing service drastically doesn't cut it, IMO. I know some of you may disagree but that's how I feel.
Oh - I'm with you. TA buses were never very fast, but they're painfully slow tese days.
Wayne
Yup some RTS Novas [selected buses from 9350-9699 mostly] only go 30mph.. TOPS!, why I do not know and practically all the artics do 40 mph max speed. But even when B/O's have buses that don't have restricted speed, the drivers are driving slow themselves and not b/c they are early. And acceleration sometimes forget it, some artics in the 5000's series start slow and even some of the repowers start slow, although I'm glad they replaced the original engines in the 1993 TMC's b/c theyt were a piece of shit. I feel that the 1990/'91 TMC's and 1993 Orions didn't really need the repowers but the MTA was ordered to put 'cleaner engines'.
The best accelerating buses IMO, in no particular order [not counting the MCI'S & New Flyer low floors]:
The 1995 CNG
The 1996 Novas
The 1999 Novas(5075-5124)
All opinions welcome
Really strange that people seem to think th buses have a top speed of 30 or 40 miles an hour.
The agency where I drive has the following types:
1980 GMC T8H203 RTS-II top speed 62 miles an hour
1989 Gillig Phantom 4096's top speed 58 miles an hour
1990 New Flyer D40's top speed 72 miles an hour
1995 New Flyer D40LF's top speed over 80 (yep, that's what I said, OVER 80 -- haven't hit the governor yet!! Cummins ISC's and B400R)
1998 New Flyer D40LF's with Series 50's and B500R top speed 68 miles an hour.
1999-2000 New Flyer D60LF's top speed 72 miles an hour (S-50's)
2001 New Flyer D60LF's top speed 76 miles an hour (ISL's)
And believe me, we need every bit of 65 miles an hour on our freeway runs....so the Gilligs are restricted from being in service on freeways. Only deadheading.
Lol! Those are speeds that those of us who drive in Manhattan can only fantasize about. I'm lucky if I can hit 20 mph on some stretches of Second Avenue. I can only imagine what it's going to be like driving a fully loaded slow accelerating Flyer artic on the M15 when and if they ever come into service on that line.
Your a driver on the M15? Your lucky to hit 20mph b/c of traffic or a slow bus and do you do more LTD runs, local runs or is it equal. Some of the M15 drivers I rode on in the past man the LTD's are slow sometimes, even in open roads & I normally do not ride the local altough sometimes I think it makes more sense to do so, no disrespect to you.[Whenever I take joyrides in Manhattan every now & then, I usually ride on the M15]
BTW, good luck with the artics whenever they come b/c you are going to need it.
!Question when those 30mph tops reach 30mph is the bus @ high rpm?
also how does it pick up can it move up a hill or it roll back.?
and for the artic. does the gears on it go flying by becouse the gears are short or the gears it long and it take for ever to reach 40??
>>"!Question when those 30mph tops reach 30mph is the bus @ high rpm?
also how does it pick up can it move up a hill or it roll back.?"<<
Yes, the bus is at top rpm. It feels like it is building speed once it reaches 30 but it is not. It makes it up a hill somehow.
>>"and for the artic. does the gears on it go flying by becouse the gears are short or the gears it long and it take for ever to reach 40??"<<
They are governed to go 40mph and the MTA has put a restraint which prohibits many artics to go faster b/c of its length.
what i mean do you notice a big transmission different when the artic is limeted to 40.like it the gears real short.
On my particular run I do two roundtrip limited trips and then one roundtrip local trip. I've always said that if you're not going that far then the local bus will get you there about as fast as the limited will. Everyone wants the limited so that by the time the limited has finsihed loading at a stop, the local is already a good way down the line.
steve you must work for a transit agency with brains unlike nyct. i have said over and over nyct mci will not accelerate above 58 mph. on the nj turnpike the old lady in the 84 chevette flies past you.
Actually, all our buses have been "turned down" from original factory specs!!
Detroit Diesel factory-sets their engines at 2350 RPM -- our agency turns the Detroits down to 2150, and the Cummins to 2200.
The 1995 D40LF's were originally Series 50's with a top speed of about 74 miles an hour; they blocked out the top gear and limited them to 60. Last year they all got re-engined with Cummins ISC's (with seemingly unlimited top speed...), and as the engines are under warranty, they couldn't screw with the settings. Now that they are a year old, I look to see them get turned down to about 66-68 miles an hour maximum.
We did have an RTS that got experimentally re-engined with a Cummins C8.3 and ZF tranny about eight or nine years ago. If ti had wings, it certainly would have lifted off. It was SCARY fast. Then they turned it down to 60 miles an hour maximum, only trouble was, they did it through the engine governor, so it then had NO power with which to get out of bus stops into traffic. It really sucked!
LOL...Chevette. I sure don't see those around as often as I used to!
-F.
How about the awesome Corvair? We used to call them "leakers". The valve cover gaskets on the rear engine design, transverse mounted forever leaked.
Chuck Greene
Chuck, I still see one or two of those every now and then; in fact, most of them are wonderfully restored. I used to ride to church every other Sunday in a 1962 Corvair that was all original, and I love the Corvair Monzas of the late 60s; when done up just right, they look kind of like junior Camaros. Neat little cars!
-Fred
I got to go along with you on that, Fred. Some of the Monzas & Spyders were sharp, also,
Chuck Greene
Oh yes, and the convertible...what a nice looking car that was. That and the 1967-69 Plymouth Barracuda ragtop. Just something about 'em...
-Fred
i had a chevette. it topped out at 40mph and when going up a hill in staten island you had to pray and sometimes stop at midpoint for it to catch its breath. thus the comparison to nyct buses.
Yeah...they were underpowered but they had that really neat sound to them, much like a lot of underpowered buses. Just screams away...
-F.
Some buses that really struggled to gain acceleration was 3076, 3990 and 3997(when in ENY. I do not know how it is now in FP) out of ENY. I rank those as some of the slowest RTS's of all time but 3076 is at the top, if you guys are familiar with that bus, you'll know what I'm saying. I remember 2 or 3 years ago I rode 3076 on the B8, the driver got so pissed b/c IT....ACCELERATED....SO...SLOW...EVEN....THOUGH....HE....PRESSED....
THE....GAS....SO....HARD.... I won't miss that bus at all and I'm glad that piece of shit is scrapped. BTW, I don't even think it reached 25mph through my whole trip on it. Do you guys know of other buses that started so slow, current or retired.
I totally agree about NYCT's ridiculous top end of 58 MPH for the MCI's. I always say that there must be something in the air down at 370 Jay because they make some silliest decisions. I know they're on the saftey thing, but a top spped of 58 MPH on the NJ Turnpike is actually unsafe since they can keep pace with the flow of traffic.
Wayne
why are the NY mta MCI's limeted to only 58mph.
I don't know for a fact that NYCT's MCIs are limited to 58 MPH, but it wouldn't surprise me. If it is so, the reason is that NYC's top speed limit on highways is 50 MPH, so officially there is no reason for the buses to be traveling any faster (of course, some of the buses DO go through New Jersey...).
David
yea since they go to jersery they should be relimted to 65mph to keep the peace.i don't understand why some of nytmta artic. can go 65 and mci the luxary buses can only do 65.i think septa is worst i think that one mci they got can only do 55mph.
speed limit on nj turnpike at this point is 55 mph. of course everyone is doing about 70mph. since i drove them for four years i can vouch for that 58 mph limit. also dont forget all these buses are leased so nyct did not pay 375,000 per bub.
It appears to be a misconception that NYCT has leased the over-the-road coaches from MCI. The year 2000 purchase of 190 buses cost $68.2 million ($358,000/bus) and the year 2002 purchase of 100 buses cost $42 million ($420,000/bus), according to the MTA Capital Program Amendment dated May 2002. It is TRUE that NYCT planned to keep the buses for 7 years before selling them (not turning them in). That matter is under review.
David
I can vouch that the MCI on Staten Island do every bit of 65 MPH now on the Turnpike, after riding next to a few in my car and pacing it, I guess due to the fact that they go on the Turnpike they may have had the SI units turned up to 65.
oh i never seen a ta really tune up a bus before.
So the Gilligs don't do highways very well, I assume?
I know you're a seattle man...
Lets see, No Bredas, No MANs and no D60HFs, so you can't be Metro. To the best of my knowledge Community Transit has no 60LFs, so you must be an unSound Transit driver (alright, no knocks against the bus service, I just wish they'd leave the Bus Tunnel alone, oh and drop the whole Link thing, let Tacoma buy their own damn Streetcars, and expand the northside Commuter rail).
I think I still have a paper model of a Breda in the orginal White and Grey with Yellow and Brown pinstripes from when the tunnel opened, and remember how excited everybody was when it opened. Course I barely read at that point, and a newspaper was out of the question, so I don't know what the critisms were. I think my family wound up being inadvertantly among the first passengers in the Tunnel. My mother, sister, and myself went to meet my dad for lunch in the city, we parked the car, walked to the building, and he suggested that, rather than go get the car from the garage, we grab a bus there. We did so, a non-artic (maybe a MAN americana) up to somewhere up on like lake union (I actually don't remember really well, it was north, that's all I can really say). On the way back we caught one of the NEW Bredas back to downtown, as I remember it, the Bredas had been on the streets for a few months prior to the tunnels opening, supplementing the MANs and AM Generals on the Trolley Bus routes, so my dad had be come accustomed to seeing them, and being able to use them to get back and forth to his office. My sister and I raced for the "high seats" over the rearmost wheels, and my parents got the seats just in front of us. We were driving down the same route that we had taken out there, but when we came to an intersection, we turned off the road into Convention Center. Pretty much the whole bus (which was pretty empty) was unaware that the tunnel had been opened, the driver stood up, and told us all that we would be using the tunnel, a bit late, but better than never I suppose. As we entered the tunnel, we passed all the stands and stuff that had been set up for the grand opening, and which now sat empty. Everything smalled new, the tunnel smelled like a new house, the busses like new cars, it was amazing, that is the one single thing that has stuck with me for the past 10 or more years.
BTW, did you ever get to drive a Breda on the 550? Are they pigs, cause of the Dual Mode? Or do they handle just as well as a MAN or New Flyer? Also, are the Bredas and MANs pusher or puller artics?
The 1996 Nova's as a group are probably the fastest accelerating RTS's in the NYCTA fleet. That's their only positive attribute. Other than that they suck. They ride like a brick, have noisy climate control systems, very cramped drivers compartments and really touchy brakes. The 1999 Nova's are slower, rattle like crazy, have an overly bouncy ride, brakes that don't fully release and a climate control system that's so cold you could store corpses in the bus. NOVA = SHIT, that's why they're out of business.
This may surprise you but another group of RTS's that have good acceleration are those totally miserable and decrepit 1996 75xx rebuilds. Driving them is a nightmare but they do haul ass.
[NOVA = SHIT, that's why they're out of business.]
Although the RTS is no longer available, Nova is still in business, making the LFS for the Canadian market (mainly Quebec Province). While they may not make as many buses as they used to, I'll bet that the company's profitability has improved.
!Question when those 30mph tops reach 30mph is the bus @ high rpm?
also how does it pick up can it move up a hill or it roll back.?
and for the artic. does the gears on it go flying by becouse the gears are short or the gears it long and it take for ever to reach 40??
i HATE Netscape
I love all new flyer coaches! Just in case anyone wants to know....
If you are talking about the one's in Philly, they are awesome!
I love the large yellow electronic destinations signs. I'm planning to go in to Philly Saturday and catch a ride on a Flyer on the 109
route to Chester from 69th St. Terminal. I usually ride as far as Springfield Mall, then I take the Media trolley back to 69th St.
If I have time, I'll ride a round trip on the "el" to Frankford
and back. I'd like to see how the new terminal is progressing.
Chuck Greene
I think MINE might just be my REAL name! :-)
Well, I first started out on this forum, my first handle was CWalNYC, which stood for my first initial, the first three letters of my last namy, and the city I was born and raised in, NYC. Then, as I was walking on E 23rd Street and I saw the text and graphics on a Command Bus RTS-06 CNG, including "Think...Sky," or something to that effect,and "Breath fresh air." But the one phrase that caught my attention was "New York City's Clean Air Bus" which seemed kinda odd, since a natural gas or clean diesel bus cannot clean the air but can only help prevent further damage by air pollution from diesel exhaust...so I took the last three words, "Clean Air Bus" and I combined them into one word and called myself "Cleanairbus" from then on, going on about two years now...
And, alas, is the story about my handle...I might retire it sometime for another good handle.
I picked my handle for the shortened version of my name which is also the first letters of my first, middle and last name (Wesley E. Samuels). I would say my middle name but I'd have to kill you. I thought about changing it but I like it the way it is for now.
My handle is actually incorrect. Initially when I first joined Bus Talk, I typed it in incorrectly and have never gotten around to changing it. The correct handle should be D60HF in honor of the New Flyer articulated bus which is my favorite bus in the NYCTA fleet.
My handle represnts the only subway that runs by my house and the bus that runs down my block.
Ooh, I am flattered that you listed me first! I think you only need a clue to figure out what it means. It has to do with Geometry...
Corresponding Parts of Conguruent Triangles are Concruent!
kcram3500 is pretty straightforward...
"kc" - me, KC Jackson
"ram3500" - my daily ride, a Dodge Ram 3500 pickup, Cummins diesel
I guess I wasn't in a very imaginative mood when I had to pick a handle for BusTalk and SubTalk. At least I'm probably not stealing anyone else's name, as I doubt there is any other Sid from New Jersey on the board.
Thanks for asking the question Big Al. I'm enjoying reading all the responses.
Mine is very obvious; Flxible made my favorite bus of all time, the New Look. They also made my favorite "newer" bus...the 870/Metro. After looking carefully to see that nobody had the handle, I coined it for myself. It's simple, clearly understood (despite the ever-irksome "flixible" spellings), and gets the point across. And I'm easy to spot in the crowd. :)
-Fred
AKA "Flxible"
I used B53 (now Q54) which was the bus route that got me started as a bus fan. Growing up on Metropolitan Ave., I started observing buses since the 1960's but didn’t actually start noting the fleet roster numbers until 1972. Once I started to keep track of the fleet roster of the B53/Q54, which just about became an obsession, I then moved on to the rest of the TA/OA buses. There had been a lot of bus movements between depots back in the 70's so I tried the best I could to note the most I could that ran on the B53. I now live in Nassau and had slight thoughts of using N79 Rich.
Great job to everybody who contributed what their handles mean. I had an idea that a GP38 was some kind of train diesel but never would have guessed CPCTC was a math formula. Now I understand what a majority of the handles mean although I don't understand how a blurr can be referred to as a Tazz. Also, this gives us all an idea just how many bustalkers post on this board since I believe about 90% of the bustalkers replied. Now if only I can figure out what a G1Ravage is?
BIG AL
you ever notce the coolness of the wild west?I mean, people such as the Cherokke kid? well, thats where my hndle came from. The_Rockaway_Kid, or TRK for short
I hope I'm not too late for this post but CATS Man: Charlotte Area Transit Service and wel I am a man so there you go. By the way, since I'm not in Charlotte anymore how do I change my handle?
Better late than never. BLX was reared in the city while being held down by the man. In 'nam, why did those seargents from down south always send BLX out front in the rice paddies? BLX became hard but still loveable. In fact, the early days of BLX wasn't that of an angry person. Love bacame the focus of BLX. In the 70's, BLX tried to continue the lifestyle (sex, drugs, rock & roll), but was taken over in the 80's by those Wall Street yuppie types. They had no use for a hard working peacful man like BLX. They were only interested in making a killing on the stock market, even if it meant people lost their pensions, retirement money, etc. The 80's became the 'me' generation. What's in it for me! Unlike the 60's-70's 'we' generation. We marched to fight hunger, oppression, war, etc. Anyway, BLX wanted to make life simple and returned to days of olde to use 'X'. Because BLX was was brought up to live the lifestyle of the minority, where every 10 years someone decides to change what term they need for a group of people. Who are they and whatever happened to 'Black Power'? Well, thank you Big Al for including BLX to inquire his handle. BLX recalls the handlebars of his stingray bike with the banana seat and a sissy bar. Baseball cards in spokes with a wooden clothes pin, BLX is a merged word containing black & X. Thank you. Peace, out.
Here's a really interesting article about Egon Kafka who has a collection of 100+ buses out in Los Angeles.
Egon Kafka
Gee, and I was ready to post the same thing this morning! You sure up early.
BTW, It's a good article. I would love to restore that Mack.
There was a full moon last night. I was up all night.
There is a website that has more information about the movie "Kafkaesque" and about Egon Kafka.
Kafkaesque
A shocking story that I just saw on this morning's news: a bus driver for Trombly Bus Lines of Dracut MA was arrested yesterday afternoon and charged with driving while intoxicated. He had left Boston 45 minutes early, only 3 passengers on board. He was driving up I-93 North weaving in and out of lanes and clipping a few highway signs. One of the 3 passengers on board called State Police on her cell phone to tell them what was going on. They did pull the bus over as it got off I-93 onto Route 125 in Wilmington. The driver couldn't even stand up or get out of his seat without assistance from the state troopers. He couldn't even walk into the State Police barracks without help!! He also refused to take a breathalizer test, which is an automatic 90 days loss of license off the bat!! The 3 passengers were shaken by this experience but not physically hurt, and were taken to their final stops by police.
Trombly operates rush hour trips weekdays only with subsidies from the MBTA. They also have 5 MCI 40 foot cruisers (1999 models I think) that are owned by the Merrimack Valley RTA, who also kick in some funds. The bus involved in yesterday's incident from the news video was one of Trombly's MCI 102DL3's (they have 3 of them).
Fortunetly no one was hurt, but shocking that a driver would actually leave the bus yard in that condidtion and risk not only the bus passengers'lives but those in other vehicles around him. He'll be in court today to answer to the charges.
Mark
I'm hoping to have a day to spend in NYC during the upcoming holidays, and I'm looking for a few good Manhattan locations to take bus photographs. Emphasis would be on intersections where you can take in-service bus photos with a manageable amount of pedestrian and automobile interference.
My priorities are:
- New York Bus Service
- Routes that will soon be converted to articulateds (M15, M101/102/103, etc.)
- NYC DOT express bus routes (Command, Queens Surface, Green, Jamaica, etc.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Jim D.
23rd Street and Madison - Where NYBS starts routes - and would have to walk over a few blocks after that to get to M101-103
For NYBS their layover area on Fifth Ave between 23rd-26th Streets, 23rd Street bet. Park & Madison and Madison between 23rd & 24th is a good area to get photos. Nearby to this is Liberty Lines Express layover area on 26th Street, between Fifth & Madison.
Another good place is Madison & 57th Street or Fifth Ave & 57th Streets. At these locations you'll see buses from all of the NYCDOT companies as well as NYCT local and express buses.
Wayne
a detective and her daughter are aboard 1576. they ring the bell to get off at the bank and later wind up as hostages in a bank robbery. they hed to the back door of the bus but we see them exit through the front.
I saw that show last night. I loved the sound of the bus as it drove down the street.
Chuck Greene
Oh, near the end of the show, several "els" passed by , I even saw
some "Redbirds". Where were we in New York?
Chuck Greene
I saw that show last night. I loved the sound of the bus as it drove down the street.
Agreed - that authentic RTS sound was great, as opposed to the generic 1970's GMC Fishbowl audio typically used by movie and TV productions.
Oh, near the end of the show, several "els" passed by , I even saw
some "Redbirds". Where were we in New York?
The 'bank' was at Queensboro Plaza.
Jim D.
Thanks, Jim. That sets me straight.
Chuck Greene
That show has lots of great scenes...only thing that gets me is that everything happens in the "5-5" LOL!! :^)
Yeah, so far the 5-5 has covered every borough but Staten Island. But they got close...the sniper at the high school was shot in Bayonne!!
in this new movie due in december we see jennifer lopez board an rts in nyc. i missed the bus number but it probably is 1576. i have not seen 1648 which many times carried the number pa4199 on any tv or movie shoots in a long time.
Hey Hudson that is same bus from Ex GMC-RTS #1648 & one time i saw that bus with pa4199 @ 116st & present av this past summer while making movie.
DNJ
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Saw the PA4199 (1648) going through the Battery Tunnel about a month to a month and a half ago.
I saw bus #616 in the MTA LI Bus scheme with a white back. Then about 15 mins later I saw bus #615 in the MSBA scheme and the bus was very slow.
Forgot to mention bus #651 in thew MTA LI Bus scheme.
From time to time, I notice folks in here posting that a "bus was slow" or a "bus was fast"....
Not to try and start a flame war...but when the bus was observed, perhaps the driver was driving it slow, it may be a really fast bus after all.
Unless you actually get in the bus and drive it, you are not going to be able to tell if it's a slow one or fast one. Most of it depends on the driver. I've driven buses for almost 30 years now, and hear all sorts of reports from bus fans out here saying "such and such a bus is slow"....and then I just happen to be assigned that very bus and find out it is a rocket ship with tires. (Or, just the opposite holds true a lot.)
Funny thing is, what's a "real dog" to some drivers I work with can turnout to be a "real gem". Everyone has a different perception of what's good and bad on a bus (just like our likes and dislikes in choosing mates, pets, hobbies, etc.)
Thank you Steve.
Oh no, you are right. Absolutely! I agree. Maybe from where I was standing it looked like it was slow when it could been traffic causing it to go slow. I totally agree with you, Steve!
I may be wrong, but I have a hunch that the NYBS passengers will have a fit if there is an MTA takeover and they have to be subjected to MTA suburban Novabuses and Orions. I mean let's face it, those suburbans are nothing more than glorified transit buses with high-back cloth seats. They don't have any of the amenities that these passenger are used to and have been used to for over 30 years such as overhead racks, reading lamps and not having to endure those mega-bright flourescent lights shining in their eyes the entire trip.
Maybe some of you are regular riders of NYBS, or maybe you might know people who regular use NYBS.
What is your opinion of this issue? Just curious.
Well, I think it would be pretty cool to see MCI Classics in MTA colors. I think the people shoud take it well if the MTA does take over however they shouldn't alter the routes. There are similar topics on this so you could look at that as well.
MCI's in MTA colors - not a bad idea. I'm kind of curious to see them in MTA 1970's two-tone blue scheme.
I agree that the NYBS passengers would be aquite angry and would speak out. Remember several years ago. NYBS received 4 Orion surburbans (2-door models), purchased by NYCDOT. The passengers would not ride on the buses. They let these buses pass them by and loaded up the follower. Those buses were eventually transferred to Command/Green Bus. NYBS recieved two MCI Classics from Triboro Coach and two MCI Classics from Command/Green. But these 4 MCI's were in such sad shape that NYBS had to put $50,000 into each bus to bring them up to NYBS specifications, which NYCDOT approved. Can you imagine what kind of shape those MCI Classics are in today that Triboro and Command/Green operate?
"Remember several years ago. NYBS received 4 Orion surburbans (2-door models), purchased by NYCDOT. The passengers would not ride on the buses."
Yeah I recall seeing them on the road a few times.
I always wondered what did happen to them. Were they that bad? Was the riding and comfort really intolerable? I'm curious.
The 4 Orions that New York Bus Service had were transferred to Green Bus Lines and are numbered 719,720,721 and 722
New York Bus Service received 4 MCI's from Green Bus. 2 were original bus that Green Lines had and the other 2 were MCI's that webt to Green from Triboro Coach
Hope this helps
Thank You
I say we ought to find some way to buy or back the purchase of a MCI Classic and a Fishbowl in NYBS condition, but I would rather the NYBS expresses be preserved as a service with the original buses operating in original condition.
If the MTA takes over those routes, there might not be any more weekend service, look at most of their express bus routes now.
<>
That would be unfortunate. The one time I rode NYBS was in July 1990. My mom and I were visiting our uncle in the Bronx, who drove us to Co-Op City to catch the bus (I forget which route) to get back to Manhattan. Bus was a very nice MCI Classic, at the time I had only ridden the transit version operated by Santa Monica (CA) Municipal Bus Lines, so this was a nice upgrade.
Regular NYBS riders are a VERY vocal and VERY politically connected group. Because of these factors they will get whatever thay want.
Peace,
ANDEE
Anybody who regularly rides NYBS on the weekend knows how busy they can get. The MTA would never cut weekend service on those routes, except for the Parkchester route, which I have always found to be a waste. It especially pisses me off when I see an MCI Suburban on that route with 5 people on it and a Co-Op City "BOX BUS" behind it with standees.
Pardon my ignorance, but what's a "BOX BUS"? Inquiring minds need to know.
Peace,
ANDEE
orion and new flyer probably.
1-Expansion of service hours of the M-15 Limited weekdays,Saturdays and Sundays to be implemented March 2003
2-Route revision on Bx-8 in East Bronx in order to have an easier transfer to the Bx-40 to be implemented upon MTA Board approval
Thank You
The current service hours of the M15 limited (Mon - Fri southbound - 5:51 am - 6:47pm, northbound - 6:45 am - 8:13 pm, Weekends - southbound - 10:26 am - 6:15 pm, northbound - 11:47 pm - 7:09 pm)are totally inadequate. In fact you can take it to an extreme and say that the M15 should have limited service 24 hours a day. Realistically though, I hope limited service is extended to midnight or at the bare minimum at least until 10 pm.
I recall the report indicating southbound Limited stip service being extended an additional hour and northbound limited stop service being extended to approx 9:45 PM
Hope this helps
Thank You
The Bx 8 is being removed from Throggs neck Blvd
Why is that? Where will the Bx8 go?
call me at 914 329 7489 any evening for further information
Steve
FDNY
While i was doing Bus Eveness Survey @ S.I Ferry on S76 this morning saw most of Box Orions Buses also few RTS from Yukon Depot. Here what i saw RTS today is Repower Bus #8293, #8297, #8301, #8305-#8306, #8309, #8312, & #8314 also non-power Bus is #8300 Traning Bus & #8313, #4893-#4895 with two seat & #3962 on S44. I remember post it couple month ago about GMC-RTS #3962 that i saw running on Bx3 this past summer & someone say it been scarp two years ago but he was wrong about GMC-RTS #3962 & i was right. Have a good day
DNJ
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Or has it been merged into NYCT as an operating authority?
Yes MABSTOA still exists but basically only on paper. Everything is run by the Department of Buses at a upper management level. Unionized help are still non civil service and an OA driver can only work at an OA depot which are as follows:
Manhattanville,Mother Clara B Hale,Michael J Quill,Hudson,Amsterdam,Kingsbridge and Gun Hill.
However upper management may be and have already been transferred between OA and TA depots
Thank You
Source
Stephen
It's that sort of picture that made me give up trading with other bus photographers. I would send very well lit, good angled 3/4 views of the buses with NO obstructions....and then get the sort of picture back in return as was posted.
What I hate the most is when bus photogs stand on a far-side corner and shoot the FRONT of the bus as it is approaching the intersection. Or there's poles, phone booths, people, etc. in between the photographer and the bus. Or the bus is sandwiched closely in between two other buses in a yard, so only the front shows.
What I hate the most is when bus photogs stand on a far-side corner and shoot the FRONT of the bus as it is approaching the intersection. Or there's poles, phone booths, people, etc. in between the photographer and the bus. Or the bus is sandwiched closely in between two other buses in a yard, so only the front shows.
I totally agree. Call me boring, but my preferred angle is always the standard three-quarter shot. I also want to get the bus in service, with the destination sign reading clearly visible, and preferably with a recognizable landmark also in the photo. I will forego a photograph if obstructions such as pedestrians and cars are in the shot.
I occasionally shoot angles such as a head-on front view, side profile, rear view, etc. for fleet documentation purposes. Unless the bus in question is extremely rare, though, I will let a bus go by rather than take a bad photograph.
One man's opinion, FWIW.
Jim D.
Me Personally for my photography, I love good backgrounds and weird angles, I also love getting those angles that'll make people go "WOW how did he do that"
Trevor
And don't forget one of master bus photog Bob Redden's rules: "Buses have backs!" As he stated often, there's nothing more annoying to a model builder or historian than not knowing how the paint was arranged on the back of a bus. A great example is Academy - even with their "plain" MCI D-series from NJT, the back is very elaborate and would be completely indiscernable from a 3/4-front shot.
Me Personally for my photography, I love good backgrounds and weird angles, I also love getting those angles that'll make people go "WOW how did he do that"
I also try to look for unusual angles when the opportunity presents itself. I use a 35-70 mm zoom lens and will sometimes zoom in on a bus for a different look. Last April, I was photographing the M line at the Fresh Pond Road elevated station when I caught two RTS buses passing on the street below. The photo instantly became one of my favorites.
Jim D.
If New York Bus Service makes good on its threat to cease operations as of January 12th,2002 here are some possible solutions:
1-Routes taken over by the MTA
2-Routes taken over by Liberty Lines Express completely but from what i read here on bus talk it may not be possible for Liberty to do so
re:garage space and not being able to handle 45 foot MCI buses
3-Routes being split between Liberty Lines and Queens Surfice with the Parkchester and Morris Park routes going to Liberty and Queens Surfice taking over the rest.
I believe that there is room at the Queens Surfice facility for additional buses. Also it may be faster for buses to deadhead from the east Bronx to Queens Surfice than to the Yonkers Liberty Lines Express garage. I am not sure about this i think Thurston,Kevin or Trevor will be more familiar with this
4-A new operator take over the routes- I doubt it but it can still happen
5-Coopers to the rescue as they have done in the past
Any comments
Thank You
Sorry it should be January 12th,2003
Barry,
Right now we get 27 minutes to get from the garage (Yonkers) to White Plains Road and 241st. I would imagine they would need to give us about 40-45 minutes to get to Co-Op City and Pelham Bay. Being that the White Stone Bridge could be a disaster at times I dont see the routes going to Queens Service because the times would be unpredictable, especially in the afternoon when they do a lot of construction on the bridge. At the same time that may be the only other alternative.
Peace,
Kevin
LoL
My Whitestone is a Disaster all the time
Staaaaaaaaaaaaay Awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
( smile )
Kevin,
If buses needed to pull out for the PM rush wouldn't the buses most likely dead head to Manhattan and would not have to operate over the Whitestone Bridge
Please advise
Thank You
Right now I would say less than half of the buses deadhead down, the rest do live trips to the city even during the rush. This may be different with NYBS routes. Most night runs start out with you doing a live trip to the city.
Peace,
Kevin
Kevin,
So its possible that buses may not have to pull out to the Bronx if Queens Surfice were to get some of the routes with buses making a 2nd round trip to/from Manhattan on their afternoon shift
So all pull outs will go directly to Manhattan from the depot then
Thank You
eBay Item Numbers 1786704552 and 1786705054
What happened to this website? I tried to go to it and I keep getting, "Forbidden" Why? Can someone shed some light on this?
i get this too. perhaps brooklyn 67 can explain as this was a great site.
The website has been deleted from the server by the webmaster for reasons unknown. The site is no longer available, nor are any of the files associated with it.
RIP qvdepot.com
Probably 9/11 or something like that. Anotherwords, terrorists could use the info of QV Depot or something....I'm just throwing out ideas.
Nothing of the kind.
The Tuesday, November 19 Washington Post Style Section has an article about Egon Kafka, who has collected 112 (NO TYPO! 112) buses. I don't know the article's web link but the Post link is www.washingtonpost.com
Kafka lives in Los Angeles. The article says he has the actual bus Dustin Hoffman and Katharine Ross escaped in at the end of the movie "The Graduate." Not all the buses have been restored.
Thought you might be interested.
Michael
Washington, DC
The last bus for the N20 from LI going to Flushing is like around 9pm and that is when I will be getting out of college at NYIT. Does anyone know if that last bus gets crowded and what is the reliability of it? If its packed all the time then there will be no way I can get home from class. I'll be stranded!!!
Well first of all welcome to lousy LI transit!
I've sometimes taken the last N20 out of Hicksville, and no, it is never packed until Great Neck. But it can be unreliable, and run late.
Also the NYIT stop is literally in the middle of nowhere, make sure the driver sees you because they go down 25a at 55mph!
9pm is ridiculously early for the last bus to Flushing, considering the two major schools over there. They do have late night short runs to Roslyn (not going back to Flushing) till 11pm I think, perhaps they should be extended to NYIT and CW Post and do return trips.
As far as being stranded, it's happened to me a few times, fortunately I had someone to call to pick me up and take me home.
The last bus at Roslyn is the N21 to Flushing I believe is 9:43pm.
Still, it beats the N27, last bus out of Roosevelt Field to Glen Cove is 6:44pm!!
And on a weekend, N20/21 service makes weekdays seem like a breeze!
My class ends at 8:10pm so Im hoping i'll be able to catch the N20 that is scheduled to pass by at 8:06-8:14pm. This way I dont have to wait for the last bus which is 9pm.
Can you tell me where is the bus stop for the N20 at NYIT going back to Flushing? Is it across the street where the N20 stops on the other direction? Does it have a bus stop sign or something that I can use as a reference so I can know where to stand?
NYIT is located in the woods. I dont remember but when going to NYIT, is the NYIT stop before SUNY old westbury and CW post or in between?
The N20 usually has a bus that displays the next stop in bright red letters and it says Ny Inst of Tech or something like that. I dont want to get caught nappin and miss my stop if the bus I get on doesn't have that sign.
I only rode the N20 once just passing by, I need to refresh my memory.
The stop is located on Northern Blvd, west of CW post and definately before Old Westbury.
Going toward Hicksville it is the first stop after you leave Greenvale.
The bus stop for Flushing bound N20 stop is marked and is across the street on the NW corner. Be careful crossing there at night, it is quite dark.
Isnt the campus quite a hike from there?
Well I wish you the best of luck, that walk sure dont sound like fun.
Hey Qtraindash7, you're REALLY hoping for a takeover to occur don't you ;-). LI Bus is a POS the way it is now, the N6 is the only bus that runs 24 hours, more buses should run 24/7 like the N4 and the N20/N21. I rode the N31/32 a few times and that needs some more service as well but its reliable, unlike the 20/21 [as you say] and does it actually runs every 15-30 minutes in the rush, 30 minutes on weekends or something like that? I don't know how you deal with that, then you have CNG's, while they are very speedy, break down often.
LONG LIVE THE 1990 ORIONS!![hopefully, the ones not scrapped live longer]. I wish they gave it to the MTA and rebuild it to their standards [ex:removing the 1980's-era dest sign]The 1990 Orions are just better I like the old paint scheme, 'M' SUBURBAN, mechanically they are better and thats it!
If I could restructure the N20/N21 this is what I would do [especially with the likelihood of LI Bus being absorbed into NYCT, creating 1 bus system]:
Q12: a)Extend to Great Neck all times except nights, where it would terminate at current terminal at the county border
b)Extend to Great Neck all times every hour, along with N20, which would run every hour as well
N20: Runs as local with the Q12 all times
N21: Make this bus a limited route 7 days a week all times except nights
Sounds good! Now if only the MTA would go along with it....
Don't count on it LOL. But seriously, LI Bus has done nothing to help people out, in this case the N20/21. This is a widespread problem among the Queens-Nassau routes except the N6, which has a limited but doesn't seem to have too many trips. Every NYCT bus that runs with a Queens-Nassau route would be extended to Nassau, 1 route all LTD, 1 or 2 routes local. The route with the most passengers should be the LTD but since I misplaced my LI bus map, I cannot give a definite proposed eastern terminal
Q2--->would run with N6, alternate N6's would be LTD
Q5--->would run with N4, Q5 would have expanded LTD service
Q12-->would run with N20/N21, N21 would be LTD
I don't think I would extend the Q36 or Q43 with the LI Bus routes it runs with since I don't know how heavy ridership is in the N22/22A and the N24 daily. Maybe someone here knows. Thanx for any info.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Does anyone know if there are students usually waiting at the bus stops to be picked up at the 3 schools at night?
NYIT is located in that forest across the street, I got a glimpse of that NYIT sign hidden by the trees near the entrance
Ohhh yeah,it's in the works.Everything,LI Bus,LIRR,MNR,NYCT buses and subways,it's all gonna be 1 system.LIRR and MNR would be known as MTA Railroad,NYCT subways would be known as MTA Subway and NYCT and LI buses will simply be known as MTA Bus.It's in the planning stages right now although I really do hope that whenever it goes through,they'll increase service on some LI Bus routes that really need it.And don't ask me to tell you who told me that because it isn't nice to do so.So therefore the person who told me this piece of info will remain as an unidentified person who works at MTA HQ in Downtown Brooklyn.
If it goes through, it will be a huge reilef to LI Bus riders, especially Qtraindash7 and improvements in frequency and routes is almost sure to happen. That's cool with me, I feel its best NOT to give out names, especially here.
What kind of "Inside Information" are you talking about? The entire matter is available from the MTA website:
Tom Kelly
(212) 878-7440
IMMEDIATE #31
METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY ANNOUNCES HISTORIC RESTRUCTURING
Peter S. Kalikow, Chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, today announced a restructuring of the Authority, designed to further improve services to its customers. The initiative, with the most sweeping changes in the Authority’s 37-year history, will result in the merging of various umbrella agencies into five distinct companies under the MTA, each with a single transportation mission.
The restructuring, which will begin immediately and be phased in over a two-year period, will result in the creation of the following companies:
MTA Rail Road, formerly Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad
MTA Subway, which will include NYC Transit (subways) and Staten Island Railway
MTA Bus, formerly Long Island Bus, MaBSTOA, and NYC Transit (buses)
MTA Capital, in charge of overseeing system expansion projects for all MTA companies
MTA Bridges and Tunnels
“We have an obligation to the public to spend each dollar wisely, and we have come a long way in the past few years. With this initiative, many millions of dollars will be saved when it is fully implemented,” Mr. Kalikow said. “MetroCard and E-ZPass have changed the way New Yorkers think about their travel patterns. More people are using mass transit than in the past, yet congestion remains a major challenge for our region. We need to employ creative solutions to these challenges in order to maintain New York’s competitive position in the national and global economy.”
Today’s announcement marks the beginning of a multi-faceted initiative designed to streamline the MTA, reduce redundant administrative functions, and provide clear and concise corporate missions for each new MTA company.
“We need to move beyond our past and focus on where we are going,” said Katherine N. Lapp, Executive Director of the MTA. “We need to be faster and more responsive to the changing travel patterns of our customers as envisioned by Governor George E. Pataki’s Master Links strategy.”
“The MTA collectively employs about 62,000 people. The Authority does not expect the restructuring to result in a dramatic change in that figure. No MTA collective bargaining agreements will be unilaterally changed by the restructuring plan, which will be submitted to the State Legislature for approval by the end of the year. In addition, union representation will continue to be determined by the wishes of our employees,” Mr. Kalikow said.
“In my two-year tenure as Chairman of the MTA, I’ve been impressed each and every day with the quality of the MTA workforce. Today’s announcement is an enormous undertaking, but who better to undertake it than the people who got us here,” Mr. Kalikow said.
MTA Rail Road
The MTA currently oversees two separate rail companies, the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) and Metro-North Railroad (MNR), each serving a different metropolitan region. The LIRR, created in 1834 and part of the MTA since 1968, provides service between Manhattan, Nassau and Suffolk counties, as well as parts of Brooklyn and Queens. It transports 306,200 riders each weekday, up from 259,200 in 1995.
MNR, formerly Conrail, joined the MTA in 1976, and services seven New York and two Connecticut counties. MNR transports 252,600 riders each weekday, up from 217,400 riders in 1995.
“Merging the two railroad managements into a single structure will help create a more efficient railroad, one with a broader regional focus,” Mr. Kalikow said. “The stabilization and expansion of the region’s economy require a regional approach to the provision of commuter rail services and the new MTA Rail Road will provide that focus well into the 21st century.”
“The merge will also help streamline administrative services and result in a more uniform implementation of inventory, equipment, maintenance, and customer strategies,” he added.
MTA Subway
NYC Transit currently operates the most extensive and largest subway system in the nation, with 660 track miles and an estimated fleet of 6,000 subway cars. Since 1996, annual subway ridership has climbed from 1.13 billion passengers to more than 1.4 billion due to the elimination of two-fare zones, introduction of the MetroCard and new discount policies which reduced the average cost of a subway fare from $1.32 in 1997 to $1.06 today. The system’s aging subway fleet is being replaced with state-of-the-art computerized cars that provide riders with a better quality and more efficient ride.
“The renaissance of the system, from a run down, inefficient, and unsafe system, to one which has received national recognition for the most improved transit system among the largest systems in the country, is nothing short of remarkable and is a tribute to those who run the system day in and day out,” Mr. Kalikow said. “It is that spectacular record of accomplishments that we expect to maintain and build under the new plan.”
MTA Subway will operate the New York City subway system and the Staten Island Railway, which currently serves 14,000 Staten Islanders each day. The Staten Island system covers 14.3 miles of track and has 64 cars.
MTA Bus
The MTA currently provides bus services in the metropolitan region through Long Island Bus in Nassau County with 399 buses, and MTA NYC Transit with 4,700 buses in its two separate bus divisions, one for Manhattan and the Bronx, and another for Brooklyn, Staten Island, and parts of Queens.
“Surface transportation is a critical aspect of the provision of public transit for many metropolitan residents, and as such, the MTA is embarking on the creation of a single MTA Bus unit designed to bring these functions under one corporate entity,” Mr. Kalikow said.
“NYC Transit has experienced a 43 percent increase in bus ridership since 1995,” Ms. Lapp said. “The MTA needs to meet this demand by creating one corporate entity with a mission to develop system-wide bus routing for all MTA customers regardless of jurisdictional boundaries. The new MTA Bus will also concentrate on developing enhanced services in order to improve the quality of the ride for all passengers.”
Once the newly merged Bus company is established, consideration will be given to having non-MTA transportation providers, including private bus companies that operate in New York City and throughout the MTA service region, join the MTA. These changes would require the agreement of both the MTA and local governments where the non-MTA providers operate.
MTA Capital
The MTA has embarked over the last few years on an extraordinary program of system-wide expansion. East Side Access will bring the LIRR into Grand Central Terminal; the Second Avenue Subway will extend from Harlem to the Financial District in downtown Manhattan; and the extension of the No. 7 subway to the West Side will spur development in the area. Other projects include access to Penn Station by Metro-North; studies are also currently being conducted to analyze commuter rail access to Lower Manhattan. A president, whose mission will be to advance these projects, will head the new MTA Capital company.
“Moving any one of these projects forward would be challenging, but moving forward simultaneously while handling the already existing $17 billion capital improvement program presents even greater challenges,” Mr. Kalikow said. “The new MTA Capital company will provide a single point of focus to allow us to advance system expansion with a coordinated approach that tells New Yorkers we are serious about getting the job done, on time and within budget.”
MTA Bridges and Tunnels
MTA Bridges and Tunnels currently operate seven bridges and two passenger car tunnels that are used by 293 million vehicles each year. The successful implementation of E-ZPass has allowed Bridges and Tunnels to reduce waiting time for E-ZPass customers by more than 50 percent, with non E-ZPass customers experiencing delays ranging from one to six minutes per vehicle. MTA Bridges and Tunnels will retain its current corporate structure.
###
2002 Press Releases
Plus, MTA HQ is in Manhattan (NYCT HQ is in Brooklyn). Decisions of the kind we're talking about here are made at (really above) the MTA level.
David
Thank you for your post, and welcome to MTA Long Island Bus. As a Bus Operator for that system, and one who spends much of his time on the N20/21 routes, we appreciate your using it to travel to and from school.
The last N20 currently leaves Hicksville LIRR station at 9:04pm (it was recently rescheduled to leave later than before to accommodate the night students at the three colleges it serves) and is scheduled to arrive at CW Post, one stop before yours at NYIT, at 9:20pm. Most evenings, the trips are run on time, and are not crowded at all until they reach Great Neck. Of course, common sense dictates that when bad weather, heavy traffic or the occasional bus breakdown occurs, the bus may be late. The bus should arrive at your stop two or three minutes after leaving CW Post. The stop is across from NYIT on Route25A, on the northwest corner, and is clearly marked. However, the stop is dark at night. I suggest that you carry one of those small pocket flashlights and start waving it as soon as you see the bus leaving CW Post and entering Route 25A. This will greatly assist the Bus Operator in knowing someone wishes to board the bus, and eliminate by 99% your chance of not being picked up. I also suggest you and any other readers carry a flashlight to wave on other routes where stops are dark or off the beaten path. It is a simple solution to a vexing problem on any transportation system.
Mr. Qtraindash7 welcomed you with one of his typical snide, sarcastic for remarks about MTA LI Bus. Please take his irrational and unjustified comments with a grain of salt. In my opinion, and of most others in this newsgroup, he has no respect for the system or its employees who try very hard to do the best we can, and appears to spend his life finding fault with everything in life, but especially LI Bus, which, by the way, is his gateway to his daily freedom. Perhaps if he worked as hard as we do, or even worked anywhere, he’d have at least a slightly different more mature attitude (which is necessary to attract ANY woman).
We at MTA LI Bus appreciate your patronage. If you have any questions, please ask and I’ll do my best to give you actual answers, not offhanded remarks or information of which I have no knowledge. I don’t pretend to know everything, as certain others do.....
I wish you success in your studies and am happy to see you are trying to better your life.
Hey guys,
When will the new MTA LI Bus map come out with all the NEW changes. Like the N3 to the NEW N8? Also the N52 and N53. Also, how come the N65, N66 and N67 are not on the map? N90, N91, N93 N94 and N95 are on the map but as letters. Why is that?
Thanks for answering in advance!
The N65,N66 and N67 are school bus routes only.
The N 52 and N 53 are new routes which just started this past Monday.
Also the N-3 is not being discontinued. It will continue to run between Malverne and Jamaica rush hours.
The new N-8 will begin when the next pick starts
The N-90 and N-91 are being discontinued as of January.
My speculation on why a new map is not being made.
Its because of the fiscal condition of Nassau County who is responsible for the production of it
Thank You
Thank you, Barry.
Can someone explain to me the changes to the N 3 and this new N8 that keep on hearing (like dstinations, hours of operation, and via what roads)?
About a year ago I asked LI Bus for a map ... for business reasons, no less. All they had was the single side of the old one. They said they were working on a new one.
Another late post but here it goes. Started off by getting 2054 (WMATA, Orion 6, A12(Landover), bus-Landover) and took it close to the Capitol Heights Station. Got 2399 (WMATA, New Flyer C40LF, U8(Bladnesburg), bus(Bladensburg of course), and took it to the Minnesota Avenue Metro Station where I got 5244 (WMATA, NABI 436, X2(Bladensburg), bus (Bladensburg), into downtown D.C. Took a short trip to Federal Triangle via 2170 (WMATA, Orion 5, S2(Northern), bus (Northern, former Southeast).
After a wait, got 4211 (WMATA, Orion 5, 13B(Four Mile Run), bus (Four Mile Run) to the Pentagon, just missing a 9A, along with a couple of people, one who wasn't happy that it left. I got the next 9A which was 2080 (WMATA, Orion 6, 9A(Four Mile Run), bus (now Four Mile Run, was running in Southeast, about three weeks ago, and about a month before that at Bladensburg), to the Huntington Metro Station.
It was here that I noticed some interesting stuff, D.C. bus fans might see when the 1997-1999 Orion Vs go in for rehab. Fairfax Connector is starting to replace it Vultron destination signs with orange destination signs. Baltimore MTA and DASH has done the same to some of its buses. I spotted 7762-7766 and 7867 with them, only saw one 7800 with the old sign. Anyway got 7766 (Fairfax Connector, Orion V, 109(Springfield), bus (Springfield).
Took a break. Part Two coming up.
Part two begins with me leaving Springfield Mall after eating lunch. I got 7792(Fairfax Connector, Orion V, 110(Springfield), bus (Springfield). A note that I know Fairfax Connector has a bus yard in Springfield, I have never found it, did find the one in Reston. Anyways, took that bus to King Street where I caught 8729(WMATA, Flxible B rehab, N11(Four Mile Run), bus (Four Mile Run) to Branch Avenue. There I got 2222(WMATA, Orion V, C14(Annex), bus (Annex/Southeast)), to the Naylor Road Station. Finally got 8814 (WMATA, Flxible B rehab, F14(Landover), bus (Landover)).
Buses with bike racks:
Landover:
9455, 9766, 9769, 4273, 4034, 2054, 9361, 2034, 8810, 8800, 8812, 2037, 2060, 4258, 4261, 8801, 2091,8807
Southeast/Annex:
4018, 4206, 2226, 8821, 4221, 4216, 4218, 4219, 2228, 8826, 5182, 9326, 9334, 4007, 9461
Bladensburg: 3724(has back four way turn signals), 5231, 5235, 5243, 5159
Four Mile Run: 8729(now, didn't have one a couple of weeks ago)
Northern: 5201, 5221
BUSES WITH CAMERAS: 2010 & 2024 (Four Mile Run) and 2185 & 2171 (Northern)
This was supposed to be another WMATA/Baltimore MTA bus trip, but found out I had no money, plus I had no money in the bank. Paycheck coming in a soon.
Well I got to start off with an unknown Orion 6 on the F14, passing up the usual Thomas 63038 (didn't have all day passes, when I last rode it). It was from Landover and it had a bike rack. Anyway got to New Carrolton and caught 4031(WMATA, Flxible E rehab, R12(Landover), bus (Landover)) to the Greenbelt Station. I caught B30 bus 4391(WMATA, Orion 5 surburban, B30(Landover), bus (Landover)), to BWI Airport. Checked the ATM, had no dough, so the Baltimore bus portion of the trip was cancelled, so I took the light rail to downtown Baltimore, walked here and there, took some pics, got back on the light rail, was going to take some pics, but couldn't find a suitable place, got back on the light rail, went back to downtown, took some more pics, took the light rail (I had a round trip pass, didn't have enough to get the all day pass and get back home), back to BWI.
There I caught 4390(WMATA, Orion V surburban, B30 (Landover), bus (Landover)). Got back to Greenbelt and caught 4263 (WMATA, Orion V, R12 and bus (Landover), back to New Carrolton. There I had to chose between the 35' Thomas SLF and a Flxible E. I chose the SLF when a couple was arguing about to get on the Flxible. I took 63032 (The Bus, Thomas/Dennis SLF, 21(only have one garage), and I took it to Maple Ridge Apartments. From there, I took to home 62897 (The Bus, Gillig Phantom 35', 22). I don't know why this route uses 35 footers, this route only has the capacity to run 30 footers or less. They have even used 40 footers on this route. The only justification is that instead of deadheading all the way to the bus garage, near Andrews Air Force base from New Carrolton, to get some more use out of it. I also wish that the 22 would be extended to New Carrolton. It terminates at what used to be Landover Mall (nothing is there, might as well extend it, might get some more passengers).
Other observations in that 8793 was being towed away from Greenbelt Center, due to mechanical problems. Here's a question, if a bus breaks down near a another garage, does this bus get taken to that garage or does it get taken to its home garage, I assume its home garage. Also 8812 had route number N12 on it instead of R12.
Bike Racks Landover only:
2087, 4031, 4267, 4260, 8816, 8808, 8878, 8880, 9363, 4087, 9835, 9770 and Tuesday 4261 and 4266. With this last one that is it for Landover buses with bike racks. The only garage that has yet to have bike racks is Royal and that should be soon.
At NYCTA it looked like a disable bus was usually towed to it's assigned depot. However, I'm sure this is not the absolute rule. Many times I've seen SI express buses that broke down in Manhattan were taken to Huson depot for repairs - which makes much more since than a tow back to Staten Island. My guess is it depends on how far away from home the bus is and if another depot is nearby.
Wayne
I can't stress this enough. Please check ur tires during ur pre trip inspection. One of our clueless drivers has been driving around with a defective tire and she didn't notice it. While I was on her bus, I noticed a lot of tire noise and a coarse ride. I had her pull over and I gave a right side duals a little squeeze and lo and behold, the inside tire was flat. I told her go have it fixed. later that day. The shop ended up replacing the tire because it had gotten to the point where the tire was too badly damaged to fix. They were actually touching and that can lead to a blowout.
I check my tires every morning even if I don't have time, which is usually the case on Wednesdays. I hpoe every bus operator here will do the same for safety's sake.
During my travels the other day, I saw a very familiar face on Route 112, an ex NYCT RTS. It looks like a 1201-1799 series. She still has the factory destination sign, but the yellow lights on either side are now used as directionals along with the standard ones. She is wearing a kind of burgundy and grey livery. Modifications include additional lights, roof mounted a/c units and a high mount LED brake lamp. I have seen this bus at Atlantic Diesel and around Long Island. No clue as to who owns it.
It's a 4000-4500 Series GMC RTS from NYC.
Check Trevor's site for a pic. -- Transitalk
Just saw a Canon commercial - had an RTS in NYCTA Bus Scheme.
Bus # was 2501 and the side electronic sign looked like it was a sticker with a destination - anyone see it??
Does anyone know what bus this is?
Also, the 1 in 2501 seemed to be like a big Block rectangle, rather than a 1.
Saw this Orion (Or what I like to call an Onion) on 37 St between Madison and 5th Ave yesterday while on 5131 on the M3. Is this bus at MJQ? I wonder where it was going and why was it on 37 St? Last I knew it was in Crosstown storage? Or was it Carlton? I forget.
Any help is appreciated.
#137 ???
#5131 M3
I also saw one of the Orion V Suburbans that MJQ has on one of the regular routes - I'm not sure but I think I saw it on the M31??? Guess they will be found on locals in Manhattan - but they will be better kept than the ones that are on SI locals that the kids ride on.
M30.
My guess is that it's most likely an M30. Quill has quite a number of these buses...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
For those of you who are looking for work, MaBSTOA, the non civil-service entity responsible for bus operation in Manhattan (excluding 126th Street Depot) and the Bronx is currently accepting applications.
No test required. Submit an application and receive a list number.
Qualifications:
1- You must have in-force, a NYS drivers license for three years prior to appointment, with no restrictions and no points.
2- You must pass a medical exam and a drug screening. You must also have never been convicted of a felony.
3- You must read, write and understand english (although.... nevermind).
I think the filing closed for that on Nov 15th. I think they cleaner positions open for OA though till nov 26th.
I was completely caught off my guard two days ago to encounter a student in training on the B20 route. He was only on his second day out, running 30 minutes behind schedule I might add. I don't know what's going on with this so called 'freeze', but the student must have been hired within the last 2-3 weeks at most.
Also, even though this has nothing to do with the freeze, a new class of four dispatchers started training this week also.
BIG AL
There's also a bunch getting processed for train operators. It may be that these classes had their funding approved awhile back.
Qualification #3 disqualifies at least half of NYC residents!
Judging by the way they read the destination signs, I would say more like three quarters.
BIG AL
No message.
N/M
STORY HERE
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah, hurt those who have the least instead of the most. Common sense,yeah right!
I'd rather see a tax on SUV's.
Com'on, the politicians always go high on cuts so then they back off. Sure, there will be some cuts (dead wood) and the fare may go to whatever NYC gets, especiallty if MetroCard comes to Westchester. (If not, the fare will probably go to $1.50, up from $1.40). But the cuts announced via the press just won't happen. But a watered down version of cuts may occur.
Can any one name a route in each of the 5 boroughs that once they strated as a bus route never had changed depots or have been modified in any way including change of route number etc.
Thank You
For SI - it can't be a local route since the routes went from S1, S107, etc and changes to S40-S98. Has to be an Express route - my guess being X22.
x-22 was already extended via Hylan Blvd to Paige Avenue as of July of this year
Thank You
M1 - Mother Clara Hale/146th Street Depot
Q24 - East New York
That's All I Can Give You Off The Top of My Head!
The M1 was extended south from its original terminus in the East Village to South Ferry. The Q24 had a B? route number many years back. Thus, neither answer works.
Q24 (Atlantic Av) was formerly the B22.
From what I know, many years ago, the M1, when extended past the East Village, at some point ran down Chambers St. to West St. In fact there are two pictures of it in the Manhattan Bus Photo album section of nycsubway.org. In one picture, there is an M1 on the corner of Chambers & Washington Sts. - the roll sign read 1 to West Street.
The second picture is a Northbound M1 at Park Row - roll sign read 1 Madison-Chambers.
The M-1 you are describing at Chambers and Washington Streets was the old TA route which was redesignated the M-22 in 1974
Thank You
So was this a totally seperate route from the current M1 and if so, what were the terminals?
Thank you.
[So was this a totally seperate route from the current M1 and if so, what were the terminals?]
At one point there were THREE routes designated with the number 1:
Fifth Avenue Coach #1 - two-way on Fifth between Washington Square and 139th Street;
N.Y. Omnibus Corp #1 - two-way on Madison, Park Avenue South, Lafayette, Centre, to City Hall.
Comprehensive Omnibus Corp #M-1 - Madison Street crosstown
- - - - -
The first two were combined after MaBSTOA was formed and Midtown avenues became one-way pairs; the third became a TA route but kept the M1 number until after 1970. In other words, there were two M1's (one OA, one TA) which intersected each other - and BOTH used thoroughfares named Madison!
[In other words, there were two M1's (one OA, one TA) which intersected each other - and BOTH used thoroughfares named Madison!]
I clearly remember that, prior to the City takeover of 5th Avenue Coach and Surface Transit to form MABSTOA, the private companies did not use the "M" prefix for route numbers. What I don't remember too well is how soon MABSTOA started using the "M" prefix on its route signs and other literature. I don't think they started using the "M" immediately, but I have no idea of when they did. Anybody know?
I speculate once they begain ordering new buses to replace the old Fifth Avenue/Surfice Transit buses which will be in 1963
Thank You
Also the B22 used to terminate somewhere around 89 Ave. and Parsons Blvd.
M1 was extended and the B22 gor re#'d to the Q24, as did some others.
Dont EVEN THINK OF THESE!
B10 is now the B15 and it got extended to JFK
B22 is now the Q24 and it got shortened to 168 St
B53 is now the Q54
B55 is now the Q55
B56 is now the Q56
B58 is now the Q58
B59 is now the Q59
The M34 was created out of the M16 and the 16 got shortened to the PA bus terminal
There's more but I won't give out anymore
M6, BX5 , B2, Q36, X8(the former one that ran to Downtown Brooklyn)
Ok, I'll take a crack at it.
Brooklyn-->I don't know....B3
Manhattan-->M104
Queens-->Q42
Bronx-->Hmm...Bx25
SI-->S60
B3 was in Flatbush at one point and it's had several changes in routing over the years.
David
Wow Barry, this IS a challenge. How about the B2, B23 and possibly the S42....
The B-2 is wrong because it ran originally from the Rockaway Ferry to Avenue U and later was extended to Kings Highway Station in 1936. It also was in the old West 5th Street depot while the current Flatbush Depot was built in the late 1940's.
The B-23 while always in 5th Avenue now Jackie Gleason was neither extended but the route was modified to operate via 60th Street instead of 62nd Street in the mid 1980's Flatbush Ave bound.
The S-42 is wrong because it was renumbered in the late 1980's/early 1990's
Thank You
Here are some possibilities:
Manhattan:
M4 and M5 - always at 132nd St or its successor Manhattanville (I realize that there was temporary reassignment during the construction of the new Manhattanville depot).
Brooklyn:
B41 and B46 - always at Flatbush depot and basically unchanged since both were converted to bus in 1951.
Queens:
Q12 and Q13 - both pretty much unchanged for the last fifty years and always out of Flushing Depot or its successor Casey Stengel.
The B41 used to terminate at the Fulton Ferry up until approx 8 years ago.
Nope, the B41 got shortened to Tillary St from Fulton Landing 5-6 years ago so thats no good.
The M4 is x'ed since it was moved to 165 St from 168 St when it turns on Fort Wash. Av 2-3 years ago and I think it was split for a while and the M5 is out of the question b/c it was extended via Riverside Dr to 135 St and was moved from 120 St to 135 St.
The M5 also moved from 57th to Central Park South in the late 80's.
The B-46 was extended from Avenue N and Utica to Kings Plaza shortly after Kings Plaza opened in 1970. I believe there was a short period of time just after Kings Plaza opened in September of 1970 when there was a "shuttle" bus between Avenue N and Kings Plaza. Prior to all of this, one branch of the B-3 terminated at Avenue N and Utica as well.
Andy, All of your answers are wrong. The M-4 and M-5 were in different depots.
The B-41 and B-46 while always in Flatbush were both extended
The Q-12 and Q-13 were in the old North Shore Depot prior to the opening of Flushing in 1950.
Thank You
Great question...let's see...
Bronx: Bx5
Brooklyn: B2, B3, B12, B23, B35(?), B60, B63
Manhattan: M104
Queens & SI: no routes meet the criteria
-Mark
Until the 80's, some NB M104's ran via 6th instead of 8th.
Also, following 9/11, the south/east terminus was temporarily moved to 2nd Avenue.
This is getting very nitpicky, but a few years ago Columbus Circle was reconfigured and NB M104's started going around it rather than cutting through the middle, and when the 72nd Street subway rehab began, NB M104's started to use Amsterdam instead of Broadway from 72nd to 73rd.
Even more nitpicky, I noticed that some of the M104s (via 6th ave.)were marked for 126 St-Amsterdam Ave. instead of 129 St-Amsterdam Ave.
Mark,
The Bronx the Bx-5 was combined with the old Bx-54 and moved several times.
The Brooklyn routes except for the B-23 and B-35 were in more than one depot. Some i already answered. The B-23 was modified and the B-35 was extended from Rockaway Ave to Mother Gatson Blvd in 1968.
The M-104 while always in Amsterdam had a 6th Ave branch and for a short time was extended to 135th St-Broadway as a seperate branch. The 135th St-Bway terminal later was made a Shuttle to 125th Street and then discontinued in the late 1970's or early 1980's
Thank You
The way the TA move or close depots; change numbers; routings and terminals with a snap of a finger, this is a tough challenge-but here goes:
Bronx: Bx10, Bx25
Manhattan: M6, M15
Brooklyn: B25, B26, B39
Queens: Q12, Q36, Q43
Staten Island: All S90 somethings, x10, x15, x16, x18, x19, x20
Please let me know if any of this is correct.
Thank you.
No Queens routes apply because:
1) the opening of the Archer Avenue Canopy Terminal moved most of Jamaica's routes from the age-old 169 Street and Hillside Ave terminii.
2) the elimination of the A's, B's, and the countless other suffixes that accompanied Queens routes (Q3A/83, Q4A/84, Q5A/Q5AB/85, Q12A/79, Q17A/30, Q44A/46, Q44B/71(eliminated), Q44FS/20, Q44VP/74)
3) the "musical chairs" that is the Main Street bus stops. At one point or another, ALL of the routes changed stops at Main and Roosevelt.
4) before QV opened in 1974, its routes were split between JAM and FLU(now CS).
The M15 route was changed in both branches, 15's toward City Hall was changed after 9/11 and South Ferry buses changed in lower Manhattan a few years ago, now running via Madison St instead of E Broadway & now runs both ways on St James Pl. The B25 is out b/c of the small extension in downtown Brooklyn. The express buses were affected after 9/11 so that's a no.
The X8's route is the ONLY express route that didn't change after 9/11 since it was downtown via Water Street - it may not have been operational for a few days, but route never changed.
In the Bronx the Bx-10 is wrong because it was moved when Kingsbridge Depot was closed for reconstruction. The Bx-25 is correct.
In Manhattan the M-6 is wrong because it was in 54th Street Depot before being transferred to Hudson in the fall of 1986. The M-15 is wrong for several reasons. One was that prior to 1963 when 126th Street became an "TA Depot" the TA had two depots in Manhattan which go back to the East Side and Comprehensive days which the Manhattan TA routes were taken over from in 1948. In addition the M-15 absorbed the M-13 route when 1st and 2nd Avenues were made one way in 1951. I do not recall which is what but please read the Manhattan Bus History which you will find on this site.
In Staten Island the S-90's are all limited stops of local routes and do not count. The x-10 was modified over the years, the x-15 was extended from Richmondtown to Richmond Ave as part of the x-1 to x-8 changes. The x-19 once operated to Midtown, the x-18 and x-20 were in the old Edgewater Depot when it was opened. The x-16 may be correct
Thank You
In Brooklyn all three routes are wrong. The B-26 was in the old 5th Avenue Depot prior to Fresh Pond opening in 1960, The B-39 was in East New York until Crosstown opened in 1955 and moved to Fresh Pond when Crosstown was closed in 1981. The B-25 was always in East New York Depot but the route was modified once.
In Queens the Q-12 is wrong because it was moved from the old North Shore garage to the then Flushing Depot in 1950 when Flushing now Stengel was opened and both the Q-36 and Q-43 were in Jamaica Depot before moving to Queens Village when it opened in September 1974
I thought they just moved the Kingsbridge depot from one location (the old 3rd Ave. railway car barn) to another and moved the Bx10 along with it. If this was not the case, what depot handled the Bx10 before it was back at Kingsbridge?
Also, thank you and everybody else for the information. It is amazing what you can learn on this board.
[...what depot handled the Bx10 before it was back at Kingsbridge?]
The Bx10 and Bx24 were at Gun Hill, with reliefs at 206th & Bainbridge and Fordham Plaza, respectively. Other West Bronx routes were at Coliseum or Walnut. (Surprisingly, the M100 was at Walnut, not Amsterdam.)
Did Kingsbridge takeover the M100 before or after Walnut closed? Yes, I know that the M100 went to Amsterdam when Manhattan and Bronx routes had major depot changes due to 100 St closing.
RE: Bx25 - I'm guessing you mean today's Bx25 because there was an old Bx25 that operated out of West Farms which became the present day Bx32 (and switched to KB) when many Bronx routes numbers were changed in the early 80's.
Wayne
Yes, I mean today's Bx25. The trick to answering this trivia question is to think of a route that was VERY recently created. That way, there wasn't enough time for the TA to find whatever reason to change it. For example, the S93, a newly created route (around August of this year) which operates from the 86 st-4 Av "R" subway station to the College of Staten Island's Willowbrook Campus.
The X26 is another choice and I'll take my chances and say the M14.
My fault. Disregard the M14 answer. As I said before, I'm going to go with the S60 and the S67....maybe.
Try S93 Bay Ridge-CUNY College of Staten Island Willowbrook Campus Limited.
Even the new BX 25 isn't a good answer. Back when the Bx9 was the 20 and the Bx3 was the 38, the Bx25 terminated on the Southeast corner of Reservoir Avenue and W195th St. It now continues to the VA hospital on Kingsbridge Rd. I wish I had my pictures of those green 4700s on that corner.
Manhattan: M4
Bronx: Bx1
For a few years, the nb terminal of the Bx1 was 246 St.-Henry Hudson Pkwy. I know it began around 1984 although not sure when it was cut back.
The TA just extended the sb terminal of the Bx1 to 136 St.-Lincoln Ave effective Sept. 2002.
M4 used to run on Riverside Drive between 110th and 135th (approx) Streets.
Those were the exact streets.
I knew 110th, I wanted to cover myself if I wasn't right with 135th.
BOTH of those are out of the question. Bx1's recently got a route change and M4's moved to 165 St from 168 St.
In addition to reroutings, the M4 and Bx1 fail the always-at-one-depot test:
M4: 132nd Street, then Hudson briefly, then Mother Hale, then Manhattanville with extras at Hale, then all MV.
Bx1: KB, Coliseum, KB.
Can anyone name the bus that has remained its original depot for the longest period of time? There is only ONE bus that fits this criteria. Good luck.
Mark
I know it's one of the 1700 series coaches. 1740 something, but the exact number slips by me. The bus ran it's entire life out of Casey Stengel depot.
BIG AL
1737?
I'd guess PA1586 that seem to be at 126th Street for it's entire career.
Wayne
maybe it was, but this is a current bus
If a retired bus - PA 1767
If a current bus - my guess would be 4014 - ENY
or its is PA 1751 --one of the 2 (1751 or 1767) that I mentioned - definitely one of them that spent their entire life in Queens.
I thought #4014 ran in Hudson Pier Depot for some time, I think I have a pic of that bus on the M14...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
you must be thinking of 4019. I know I saw that bus on the M14 recently...
Yeah...you're right...that's what I was thinking...besides, I saw #4014 on the B83 at Bway Junction today.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
It is a current bus and yes it is ENY's 4014. Someone posted that this bus may have run out of Hudson for a spell, but actually this bus has run out of ENY for all of its 17 yesr life.
Mark
Yeah, my fault...it was 4019 that I saw in Hudson, not 4014...my mistake...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rode that bus last week on Q32. Had pretty good power and speed to it for a 1985 RTS. Now 4045 has joined it from QV-also has good power and a loud engine. Be on the lookout.
#4019 Q32
#4045 M6
Oh man, this is going to be a real bitch LOL....B41
Oops, my bad.. Hmm, this is a reaal bitch..one of the 1800's in UP
Or maybe 4156 of Hudson Pier?
The 4500s operating out of the Jamaica Depot
The Queen Mary ?
Actually I don't know & don't care, sorry about that.
How about RTS 7007 (which was formerly 1571). Has this bus been at Queens Village its entire career?
1571 spent some of its time at FP.
1755 was at Jamaica for its whole career but that has been scrapped. Current bus I'd have to go out on a limb and say it was 3669 out of ENY. However I think this bus was scrapped recently.
#3669 Q24
#1755 X64
3669 came from FP 2 years ago to ENY and I think it started out in UP. All odd buses from 3667-3677 got transferred to ENY from FP to make room for the 4600's/4700's that came to FP from JG after the New Flyers forced them out of there.
3669 was in ENY longer than two years.
Staten Island - X8 (R8X)???
In Manhattan I'd say the M6. I did change depots when FFS closed, but I think that's it. I think it's going to be a very short list because the TA has done something with just about every route - especially in the 80's & 90's.
Wayne
How about the B38?
[How about the B38?]
Nope. The "north" branch was extended from Stanhope Street & Grandview Avenue to Starr Street & Metropolitan Avenue a few years ago.
Aside from a post-9/11 rerouting that wasn't publicized, have there been any changes on the M21?
Yes the M-21 was modified twice
once it was rerouted via E. 29th Street from E. 27th Street and the route was extended from Van Dam/Hudson to Spring/Washington Streets
Thank You
Regarding Flushing routes, I don't recall if the Q14 was operated by North Shore transit. However, this is the same route for as long as I can remember. Years ago when the Q15 had a hawk, it was called the Q15/Q14 hawk because it went into Q14 territory for a few blocks. But this was a Q15 hawk, which was cut. The layover point for the Q14 was and is Roosevelt Ave. and the first stop on Main Street at 38th Avenue, same as always been. Well, that's the guess from BLX.
The Q-14 was always a North Shore Bus Route. I recall the combined hawk with the Q-15. It was discontinued as part of the Sept. 1995 cutbacks
Thank You
The following are the answers to the Challenge
Manhattan-The x-26 which is assigned to Michael J Quill. While the M-104 was only assigned to Amsterdam Depot it was modified several times.
Bronx-The current Bx-25 route. Since the Bronx has had major depot changes and many routes were changed in the 1984 service plan no other route even comes close
Queens-The x-51 out of Casey Stengel Depot. Other than operational hours this route has never been changed
Brooklyn-The current B-47 route. While Routes B-23,B-25 and B-69 were only assigned to one depot ENY-B-25, JG/FA- B-23 and B-69 all three routes were modified. The B-25 was extended from Tillary Street to Furman Street in December 1941 5 months after its conversion from streetcar operation. The B-23 was modified twice and the B-69 was extended and later cut back from 20th Street/Prospect Park West after approx 30 years. The B-41,B-44 and B-46 while all assigned only to Flatbush Depot all 3 routes were extended in the 1960's and 1970's
Staten Island- The x-16(?) and the current x-30 routes. I am sure about the x-30 and 99% sure about the x-16. No local routes because they were all renumbered and the limited stop routes are out because they are all part of the local routes and it would not be fair to consider them because Staten Island is the only borough to have different route numbers for limited stop service from its all stop service.
Any comments. I hope you all enjoyed it.
Thank You
I thought the B69 switched terminals with the B67 sometime in the 1980's. I don't know if you could consider the current B47 in this category b/c technically, it came from re#ing the B40 and B78 to create this route so I think no route in Brooklyn is the answer also.
Just about every time I go to Bergen Community College (4 days per week), I see an Academy cruiser either entering or leaving the campus. The bus would go up to the mega building, loop around then leave. Sometimes it would be sitting in front of the auditorium entrance. And these buses come more than once per day.
Can anybody shed some light on this? I can't find ANY information ANYWHERE about any Academy Bus service to Bergen Community College.
And I highly doubt it has anything to do with the 756, because that's a Coach USA/Community contract.
Could possibly have a contract with the college to go around the campus or take students or employees to a different location.
testing testing 1-2-3
Beautiful shot!
Thanks!!!
Chuck Greene
youre welcome ... more to come
eddie a
los angeles, ca
Well guys, I was at Nimco today. I saw I think practically all the Bee Line Man Articulated there stripped I guess they are done for. As well I saw some NYC MTA RTS' there as well. I saw 3875. I believe if I am correct. As well I saw some NJT Flxible Metro b's there as well, I saw 3526 3572 3022 3116 Those were the only visible buses there.
Tony M.
Eep! It would be nice if some of us would band together and save those poor Flxes from the crusher. How will we ever have survivors if NIMROD keeps killing them off?
-F.
Heres a picture of MTA # 11061 on Line 130 ( Fullerton PR - Redondo Bch via Artesia Blvd).
Line 130 is one of the many lines operated for MTA by First Transit
http://glid4500.tripod.com/11061-91.jpg
Heres a picture of MTA # 11061 on Line 130 ( Fullerton PR - Redondo Bch via Artesia Blvd).
Line 130 is one of the many lines operated for MTA by First Transit
OCTA # 3001 at Fullerton PR Lot
3001 is a 1980 GMC RTS 03
Eddie a photo- glid4500@aol.com
Just out of curiosity -- when was this photo of 3001 shot?
It's assigned to the Irvine Base; in fact, thismorning was in the shop having a brake job done.
I drove it for a couple days last month while my regular bus was in for inspection -- and 3001 is a DOG!!!! Ran late all morning long....
Breathtaking!
Is that a current photo? I know that bus is pushing 23 years old. I'm sure it's been rehabbed at least once, but were it not for that dated Gultan d-sign and the minor scratching at the bottom of the bumper, that baby could pass for brand new!
Does OCTA really still have a significant amount of RTSs in service? Someone must be watching over those from above! ¡Viva RTS!
>>> Does OCTA really still have a significant amount of RTSs in service? <<<
There are many RTSs in service in Southern California. Not only OCTA, but also, Long Beach, LACMTA, Norwalk Transit and San Bernardino Omnitrans. No ice, snow, or salt on the roads. But part of the reason that bus looks so good is the excellent photograpy.
Tom
Yes - I am fully aware of the wealth of RTSs at Southern California properties. I was inquiring about OCTA specifically. I am not surprised by the presence of the RTS model itself, rather I am surprised that OCTA still has such old ones in service when they only ordered one batch of them. Of the original 140-someodd units, how many are still active?
Compare that OCTA RTS to how MTA's 8200s looked in their later years; even the most talented photographer would have been challenged to make those look good! Also, an interesting thing to note about MTA's buses is their very subtle off-white body color. It's kind of a nice touch, but honestly, I think it can make a bus look especially dirty when washing gets lackluster.
>>> Of the original 140-someodd units, how many are still active? <<<
Of course, Steve Hoskins is in a much better position than I to answer that question. I have seen very few RTSs in Orange County compared to other bus makes in their fleet. But I do remember riding only once on one that rattled and shook as it went down the road.
I still give most of the credit for the good looks of #3001 to the lighting (it looks like late in the afternoon) and the photographer.
Tom
The original bunch of RTS's in May/June, 1980 was 175 (3001-3175).
The 3086 was lost in an accident with a train on 10/1/84.
The remaining 174 buses were rehabbed in 1991 -- re-engined with detroit 6V92TAC's, transmission rebuilds, new sliding windows, electronic destination signage, all new upholstery on the seats, and a lot of other litte stuff not seen.
In 2001, 41 of them got yet another upgrade with Allen-Bradley PLC systems, all new (replacement) dashboard panels (exactly like the originals but grey instead of brown). and the modernized OCTA striping. Two of these have given up the ghose (3006 and 3038) but the other 39 are still in service.
Just last week, they pulled about 30 of the non-upgrade units out of storage and are getting them ready for service. Seems the NABI 40LFW09's can't stay up very well. It was either RTS's or the 1989 Gillig 4200 series to return to service. Obviously, the RTS's are better buses.
Most of the upgraded RTS's are slow....I don't know what they did to them, but they aren't quite in favor with the drivers because of the slowness. There are a couple that are quite fast, however, and I have been driving one for the past month as the D40LF that I was assigned to drive was a pain in the @$$, every day maintenance was out on a road call for something. So I went in And asked the base manager got one certain RTS that I know flies.....and have fun driving it!! (If anyone wonders, it is 3023....)
As for someone watching over from above -- credit has to go to our maintenance department. They DO take good care of ALL the equipment. Write something up, even a license plate light bulb, and it gets fixed THAT NIGHT!!
Sounds like those guys have top-notch maintenance. Especially if they are still running RTS fleets that go back to the Carter administration...WOW, a 1980 bus still in service!
Wish it was that way with the NYC Grummans....
-F.
Can't see the photo; just the stupid logo. Tripod SUCKS!!!
-F.
MTA # 7611 on Line 490 inbound
2002 CNG NABI ... i call them Ikaruses
Line 490 rus from Downtown LA to Brea Mall via El Monte, Baldwin Park, and Cal Poly Pomona
eddie a photo- glid4500@aol.com
That looks like Grand Avenue in L.A. about 6th Street.
6799 was the last cng neoplan to be delivered to los angeles. seen here at Olive & 5th St in Downtown L.A.
Eddie a photo
http://www.geocities.com/glid4500/6799-3.jpg
What's with the head sign? Line 401 goes to Pasadena, not New York.
last one for right now ... Foothill Transit #F1202 on Line 699 outbound
2002 Orion 5 cng
eddie a photo
http://www.geocities.com/glid4500/F1202.jpg
Check this out, folks; I don't know if you have ever seen the book "FLXIBLE: 1953-1995", but I saw some teaser pics from the book on eBay, and one page shows a Grumman Flxible demo of a 30-foot 870 that was built to Norfolk, Virginia specs. As we all know, the Grumman was only offered in 35 and 40-foot versions, and the 30-foot did not surface until the model was redesigned as the Flx Metro.
This bus featured Alcoa wheels and looked really sharp; why the 870 did not initially offer a short version I will never know.
-F.
I guess alot of people are upset over the MTA's future, I cant seem to connect to the Straphangers web site.
Is the whole transit system in NYC looking to shut down? I knew they were having budget problems, but this sounds serious. The TA is the nucleus of transportation in the 5 boroughs...it can't just cease!
-F.
Well I hear the city is in bad fiscal shape. If the TA can get the $2 fare and commuter rail costs, hopefully service cuts can be avoided. I'm a fan of neither, but would rather see a fare increase than service cuts. I cant imagine cutting service since the city buses and subways are so crowded, save for the exception of the Grand st shuttle bus (never see anymore than 3 people on it!) and the midday Brooklyn M train.
Of course then there's the side effects of cutting sanitation and police, I fear things may be headed for the 70s again. :-(
M service to Brooklyn is funded by the State of New York. Service will continue as long as state funds permit.
It is a waste though. The money would be better off spent in other places. I never see anyone on that midday M in Brooklyn.
Quite true. A fare hike is much better than unwanted service cuts. Anyone can agree with that.
Exactly. Besides, two bucks in NYC is NOTHING....I heard a Big Mac was 5.00 in some places there in 1987!
-F.
Oh dear...not again. Those maintenance problems are what led to eventual Blitz rebuilds on the Fishbowls and were highly responsible for the Grummans being retired after 4 years, frames or not. Let's hope that doesn't become the case...70s flashbacks are nice, but not the budgetary ones for NYCTA.
I don't know where you stand politically, but come to think of it, we had Republican presidents through most of that decade...I can't help but see the similarities here? The whole economy is going to hell, there is an abundance of poverty, and transit systems are hurting. :(
-F.
Hey, if they had never blitzed the GM New looks, they would have been retired much sooner and we would have had more RTS's than they actually ordered. I wished they blitzed the 1976-1977 Flxible New looks in the mid-late 80's, maybe they might be still around since most of the GM's lasted 25 years and some even lasted 30 YEARS in service. I miss those buses, the attractive bodies, paint scheme, the rattling[well sort of], the back window, that was just true quality mixed with attractiveness.
I agree with you, I strongly believe that the GM Blitzes shipped the Grummans out of here and it might have been too costly to rehab BOTH models but it would have been nice to see them in the late 80's and the 1990's.
True...the Blitz program did wonders for extending the life of those Fishbowls. I just wish I could have been there to ride them before they went away, and the same for the 9000 series Flxes and Grummans.
And yes, they should have Blitzed the 9000s AND the Grummans. They could have really saved on those as opposed to buying so many RTSes. London rebuilds their double-deckers every 10 to 15 years, and Toronto is still running rehabbed Fishbowls dating back to 1975. The United States of America is such a wasteful country...
-F.
Who knows, had the 1976/1977 New looks been blitzed and the 1980 Grummans been rebuilt, they probably wouldn't have bought so much RTS's and maybe the first Orions wouldn't have came at the time[1993]. No, the Flx and GM New looks were scrapped partly b/c of ADA laws that were becoming such a force for transit operators, especially NYC but the times was coming for the GM's since some of them lasted THIRTY years.
NYCT did rehabilitate the 9000-series Flxibles, in-house, in 1985.
David
And did a very nice job at it, at least from what I can see, though less flashy than Blitz.
Well I hear the city is in bad fiscal shape. If the TA can get the $2 fare and commuter rail fare hike, hopefully service cuts can be avoided. I'm a fan of neither, but would rather see a fare increase than service cuts. I cant imagine cutting service since the city buses and subways are so crowded, save for the exception of the Grand st shuttle bus (never see anymore than 3 people on it!) and the midday Brooklyn M train.
Of course then there's the side effects of cutting sanitation and police, I fear things may be headed for the 70s again. :-(
Check this out; for those of you who have always wanted your own bus, Ride-On is actually selling 8 of theirs online. The fleet is a hodgepodge of retired 1984 Orion I and 1988-89 Gillig Phantom 30-footers. They are actually starting off at 100.00 per coach; condition of each is listed at auction sites.
This would be neat for someone who is a Ride-On fan or bus enthusiast; in fact, it would be really neat if one was converted into a rolling memorial for Conrad Johnson, with photos, etc. inside....
-F.
Saw an article on the Conrad Johnson funeral; it told of a 25-bus motorcade with headlights beaming, apparently buses from various TAs and states. However, all I saw pictured were about 14 Orion Vs.
May Mr. Johnson rest in peace, and God bless his family and friends.
-F.
Trombly Bus Lines has given 30 days notice as required by Massachusetts Dept. of Telecommunication & Energy regulations that it will no longer operate it's Lawrence/Andover to Boston and Methuen Park & Ride to Boston express routes after Dec.20th, blaming money woes. Despite a $134,000 subsidy from the MBTA to offset costs, Trombly claims they will lose $150,000 this year on the runs. They only average 60 riders a day on the 3 AM peak trips to Boston and the 3 PM peak trips from Boston. James Trombly, company owner said he would need another $200,000 from the MBTA or raise fares from $4 to $10 just to break even. The MBTA has no additional subsidy money for Trombly or any of the other companies that they subsidize runs for. A spokesperson for the Massachusetts state transportation dept. says they will try to find another bus company to take over the runs. There is also an outside chance that the Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority may take over the runs. They own the 5 MCI 40 foot 49 pass coaches, I believe 1999 models (fleet #'s 100,105,110,115,120) used on the runs and leased them to Trombly. I don't know where those buses will end up after 12/20, I'm sure they'll end up with the company that takes over for Trombly, or if the MVRTA ends up running the service, I'll bet they'll use them.
Media reports state Trombly made the decision to drop the service before the Monday incident (mentioned in an earlier post) on one of it's PM trips from Boston to Lawrence in which the driver drove 18 miles of the route drunk, weaving all over I-93, striking several road signs and terrifying the 3 passengers on board before being stopped and arrested by police.
Mark
More money woes. Hasnt anyone heard of saving $$ for a rainy day?
A MA state representative from Andover stated that the problems seen with Trombly Bus Lines are going to start cropping up elsewhere as the state struggles through tough times, claiming citizens don't want to increase taxes, thus not only transportation will feel the pinch, but other state and local services (schools, roads,etc.) will take a hit. the MBTA spends $2 million a year to subsidize 15 private bus companies operating bus service from outlying areas to Boston. I think one of the reasons that Trombly only drew an average of 60 passengers a day is the fact that the MBTA commuter rail trains also operate from Lawrence and Andover to Boston, and the trains are full at rush hours. Several of the other subsidized bus runs to Boston also run to/from areas that are also served by the T's commuter rail system, examples that come to mind are the Coach Company, which runs 1 or 2 trips from Newburyport to Boston, Gulbankian Bus Lines, which runs 1 or 2 trips from Southborough to Boston, Peter Pan, which operates a few Worcester to Boston locals via Route 9. I don't know how the ridership on any of these buses are, but if Trombly was losing $150,000 a year these companies may also be in the red, maybe not as much as Trombly but still enough that if subsidies were to stay the same or even be cut a bit, they too may eliminate their line runs. Peter Pan due to their size would probably not be impacted too much financially, but the Coach Company and Gulbankian's are smaller companies, they mainly provide charter service, as does Trombly. I hope that Trombly can pull out of their money woes, they have been around for 50 years in this area, and it would be a shame to see a family run company disappear. Unfortunetly, I think I have to agree with the state rep's comments I mentioned earlier, I think we will see more $$$ woes in public transportation here in MA.
Mark
Isn't the current Trombley operation a 'reincarnation' of sorts? I seem to recall that Trombley went out of business for a while in the 1980's.
In any event, I expect that the current mess up on Beacon Hill soon take its toll on public transportation in Massachusetts. At least the people in Lawrence still have the MBTA commuter rail trains, though - some of the other subsidized bus routes go to areas poorly served by the T and are definitely needed.
Jim D.
Trombly Bus Lines started in 1952, they ran local bus service in Lawrence from 1969, when Eastern Mass Street railway was bought out by the MBTA until the mid 70's when the Merrimack Valley RTA took over. In fact, Trombly operated the MVRTA buses for a few years. Trombly also operated the Lawrence/Andover to Boston run that the MBTA ran briefly after the Eastern Mass takeover.Trombly also operated a line run from Lowell to Boston from 1976, replacing the MBTA 700 Lowell/Boston run after the Lowell RTA came into existance replacing the MBTA's Lowell service. The Lowell run ended in the early 80's. Trombly briefly joined the Trailways network in the early 80's operating service to Fitchburg, Worcester,Springfield aand New York from Lawrence and Lowell. Peter Pan runs one trip daily I believe these days from Lowell to Fitchburg, Worcester,Springfield and New York. Trombly closed up it's motor coach side in 1985, the Lawrence/Andover to Boston line run was operated by Gray Line. In 1988, Gray Line announced it was eliminating the service, and Trombly re-entered the line run biz as Trombly Commuter Lines. Trombly has also operated school buses continuously since 1952.
Mark
Thanks for the info. I also remember that Trombley operated a bunch of ex-MBTA Fishbowls in the late 70's/early 80's. In fact, I rode a former 200-series TDH-5301 (still in the T's gray and white paint scheme!) on a Reading to Lowell commuter rail shuttle in 1979 or 1980.
Jim D.
Trombly Bus Lines has given 30 days notice as required by Massachusetts Dept. of Telecommunication & Energy regulations that it will no longer operate it's Lawrence/Andover to Boston and Methuen Park & Ride to Boston express routes after Dec.20th, blaming money woes. Despite a $134,000 subsidy from the MBTA to offset costs, Trombly claims they will lose $150,000 this year on the runs. They only average 60 riders a day on the 3 AM peak trips to Boston and the 3 PM peak trips from Boston. James Trombly, company owner said he would need another $200,000 from the MBTA or raise fares from $4 to $10 just to break even. The MBTA has no additional subsidy money for Trombly or any of the other companies that they subsidize runs for. A spokesperson for the Massachusetts state transportation dept. says they will try to find another bus company to take over the runs. There is also an outside chance that the Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority may take over the runs. They own the 5 MCI 40 foot 49 pass coaches, I believe 1999 models (fleet #'s 100,105,110,115,120) used on the runs and leased them to Trombly. I don't know where those buses will end up after 12/20, I'm sure they'll end up with the company that takes over for Trombly, or if the MVRTA ends up running the service, I'll bet they'll use them.
Media reports state Trombly made the decision to drop the service before the Monday incident (mentioned in an earlier post) on one of it's PM trips from Boston to Lawrence in which the driver drove 18 miles of the route drunk, weaving all over I-93, striking several road signs and terrifying the 3 passengers on board before being stopped and arrested by police.
Mark
Westchester County is now receiving (at the Liberty Lines Transit facility) 10 more Neoplan transit Artics (#569 to #578), and 15 Orion 30-foot transits (#101 to #115). The first 4 Orions are being sent to PTLA (a company that operates several routes in Northern Westchester and Putnam Counties), and PTLA's 4 Orion (40-foot) buses (#481 to #484) are being transferred to Liberty Lines Transit.
What kind of Orions are the new 30-footers - Orion V high-floors or Orion VII low-floors?
JD
Orion V low Floors. Just have one in so far. I'm not impressed.
The Orion V is a high-floor bus. The Orion VII is a low-floor bus with a similar looking front as the V. Could these buses be VII's?
And if they are Orion VII's, interesting that they are being delivered before NYC's big order.
Jim D.
Okay, I have a question:
What routes does Liberty Lines Transit operate?
Are these Orions (#481-484) going back to the Westchester routes?
Thanks in advance!
Liberty Lines Transit (LLT) operates approx 65 fixed routes in Westchester, connecting to the Bronx, Putnam County, Manhattan (Midtown & Wall Street). They operate for The Westchester County Department of Transportation known as "The Bee-Line".
LL Transit operates most of the Bee-Line routes for Westchester County; PTLA, a smaller operator in the Peekskill area, operates at least 2-3 lines in upper Westchester; IIRC, there's also a third contractor out in the Port Chester-Rye area which operates one or two of the smaller routes out there (I can't recall the name of the carrier, but I believe they operate either the 75 or 76, or both).
LLT operates route 75. White Plains & Port Chester Bus Co., Inc. operates route 76 only with 20 passenger vans, but in the summer this route goes into Playlnd Amusement Park and a bus is used especially on weekends. The sole bus is a 1979 RTS II #192 or #193). The W/C lift (first generation) is seized up and not working, but the remainder of the bus is in good shape.
Take NY1's POLL
Peace,
ANDEE
Take NY1's POLL
Peace,
ANDEE
Make your voice heard COMMENT HERE ON FARE INCREASE
Peace,
ANDEE
Thanks to Metro Card, people are using the TA and paying less (I'm assuming the $1.04 actual fare per trip amount is accurate). I would raise the cost of a Metro Card by a greater percentage than the increase for a single ride, in order to avoid penalizing those who truly are paying a $1.50 a ride today.
Jim D.
no it is 1.36 per ride(per fare)
Make your voice heard COMMENT HERE ON FARE INCREASE
Peace,
ANDEE
Most dangerous metro regions
Orlando
Tampa-St. Petersburg
West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, Fla.
Memphis
Jacksonville, Fla.
Miami-Fort Lauderdale
Houston
Phoenix
Dallas-Fort Worth
Nashville
Safest metro regions
Cincinnati
Boston-Worcester
New York-Northern N.J.
Milwaukee-Racine
Minneapolis-St. Paul
Cleveland
Seattle-Tacoma
Rochester, N.Y.
Norfolk, Va.
Pittsburgh
Note: Study measures the rate of pedestrian deaths in 49 metropolitan areas relative to the number of people who walk to work, as surveyed by the Census Bureau.
Source: Surface Transportation Policy Project
(Any relationship in terms of tourist or transit friendly cities?)
How about Queens Blvd ? Thought that was up there. Cross Walk signs need to be installed "Sr./Disabled" with a big red diagonal line thru it.
Maybe there are places WORSE than Queens Blvd.
"Note: Study measures the rate of pedestrian deaths in 49 metropolitan areas relative to the number of people who walk to work, as surveyed by the Census Bureau"
Given that there are plenty of other reasons to be on the street besides walking to work, it would seem that this statistic shouldn't be the only measure used to determine which cities are most dangerous.
"Any relationship in terms of tourist or transit friendly cities?)"
The most interesting relationship I see is that if you broke the list of 20 cities into "North" and "South" you'd get the exact same breakdown.
CG
Norfolk, VA??? Geez I guess there are some advantages in living here compared to living back in good old NYC!! Sux to see my favorite area, Tampa-St Pete as dangerous LOL!! :)
GO NAVY--BEAT ARMY!!
http://www.boston.com/news/daily/22/bus_crash.htm
c
I had heard on the news this morning that this was a charter bus. Based on the number of passengers, I'm not sure if this was a charter. On the other hand, I don't think Peter Pan has a scheduled trip between NYC and Hartford that would have a bus on I-91 around 5:00 a.m.
Sid, sadly for the passengers sake,you are mistaken. A check of their website shows run # 1908 departs PABT at 3:30 AM. - Due in Hartford at 5:50 AM continuing on to Boston with a scheduled arrival at 7:50 AM.
Based on an AAA map, the accident happened about 20 miles south of Hartford. Wonder if the driver was rushing to make up lost time or did he fall asleep behind the wheel. The road was dry at the time.
Some of the buses have a display that shows what the next stop is and a announcement of the next stop. How does this work, does the bus pick up a signal from the locations or what?
My understanding is that the system on LI Bus is mileage based rather than the bus picking up any signals. (There are probably posts on this system in the distant past on this board.) The times I've experience the system on a LI Bus bus, I've been amazed at how accurate the system is. I assume if the bus has to take some sort of detour, that would mess up the system for the remainder of that trip.
Not really cause the driver can turn it off then when he get's back on the regular route,he can set it up to where he's currently at.I've seen that happen before.I remember that a drive did that once on the N32.
I NEED A STREET BY STREET: LEFT TURN, RIGHT TURN DESCRIPTION FOR EACH LI BUS ROUTE.
STEVE
FDNY
I agree the system works very well. I have to commend LI Bus for that. Too bad NYCT doesnt have that system.
Yet.The new Orion 7's are supposed to have them.Well they're supposed to have a electronic sign showing the date and time and all but I dunno if it'll be like the one LIBus has.Although I hope it will be.
This is a waste of money luxury nice to have but entirely not needed
Sorry, but you're 100% wrong. This device, as are wheelchair lifts, is ADA-mandated to assist those with hearing or visual difficulties.
As a continuation of what we were discussing earlier this week:
I am proposing we combine forces to establish a WMATA roster which will have the following information:
Routes assigned to each division
Buses assigned to each division
Complete bus roster (see below)
This would be similar to Trevor Logan's rosters for the NYCTA buses. If you are not familiar with it, you can view it here. I think we should include which buses are high backed, and note things such as 4309's sign, the B30 buses, Link buses, and so on.
I believe we have enough BusTalkers (plus someone else I know who I think could help) to cover every one of the MetroBus divisions. Absolutely nothing is required in this project other than attempting to make as many observations as possible during your daily routine.
I believe that a full WMATA roster was posted here some time ago with detailed information of the specs and so on, I will see if I can dig it up in the archives.
If you are interested in participating, please e-mail me at oren@orenstransitpage.com. Put "WMATA Roster Project" in the subject line and include in the e-mail which divisions' territory you are in most often.
Thanks, in advance!
i can provide a few routes that im very sure come out of Western division. those im not quite sure about have a ? next to them:
30,32,34,35,36 (all im not sure about. some have said they come from southern division)
E2,3,4,6
N2,4,6
L1,2,4
M4(?)
hope that helps in a small way.
GO TERPS!
Western has the 30s (some are form Southern and Bladensburg), the Es, the Ns, the L1, 2, and 4, the M4, the D2 (whichever one goes from Glover Park to DuPont Circle), the D5, the N7, the 42 (split with Bladensburg), the 98, and the 99, H5 and H7 (if they still run). I might be missing a few myself since this is all off the top of my head. My plan for getting the divisions was to go down the list and make assumptions where I don't know the info myself (and of course refer to the other people on the project).
I'll definitely have to get back to you on this. Sounds like a fun project. I'm currently recovering from deviated septum surgery, so I'm a bit out of it. This is why I haven't posted in a few days. Right now, I can't sleep because I think I've slept too much over the past couple of days. I think I had a bad reaction to percoset, too, so I'm just trying to do some things to relax.
Hey 1C, that's a tough operation. Hope you feel better soon. Percoset is no fun either! I'll be thinking of you, former bus driver!
Chuck Greene
Thanks! I go back to the doctor on Tuesday for a checkup. I think so far so good. I can't wait till I can actually breathe better! Its so crazy, I'm so afraid to touch my nose thinking I'm going to do something to it, but I know it wont go back to the way it was unless I really slam it into something. Percoset is a no no for me for now!
Be careful. Don't bump into anything and let me know how you are after your checkup. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Chuck Greene
Thanks, Chuck! Its strange with this, my nose is more prominent since the operation, or I should say, I'm more aware of it. I'm driving everyone nuts by asking if they think I'm doing something wrong if I happen to tap it if I'm adjusting my blanket or using a tissue, etc.
Everything is going great, though! Have a Happy Thanksgiving, too!
Perry
Happy Thanksgiving to you,also. Remember, as far as your nose goes, time heals all wounds!
Chuck Greene
I'm most often around Montgomery routes, but I also see a good deal of Western buses quite often. My schedule is quite busy these days, but this sounds like a fun project and I'll try to participate.
Wayne
Here is my prediction on the fare hike situation based on current events. This will be posted on both Talks.
What is being covered up here is very important. It's called the MTA FAREBOX RECOVERY RATIO. The current average fare is $1.06 on a $1.50 base fare. Yes, considering the MetroCard deals, I believe that this number is accurate. We can always check at www.ntdprogram.com, where we can divide the agency's revenues by total unlinked trips and see what we get. This represents a fare DECREASE since the last hike because the fare was $1.50 with ZERO deals and no systemwide bus to subway transfer (only to the Bx55 and Q4, Q5, Q42, Q83, Q84, Q85). I find it hard to believe that our fare decreased by almost 33%. A $2 fare would effectively get us back almost to the 1995 base fare in terms of actual money that we pay. If these numbers are cooked, send me the info.
Another revelation: the deficit is $1.1 billion, not $663 million. Silly me, thinking that the real figures would be floating around before the election. In 1999 and 2000, Carl McCall specifically stated that a fare hike should be implemented because the MTA needed to raise revenues to pay off their revenue bonds or risk their capital program, which had a $3+ billion hole TO START WITH. He said the fare should go up 25 to 50 cents...wait, that's $1.75 to $2.00...in EARLY 2000! Did anyone say anything about changing the formula THEN? Of course not, because we were too busy watching the sexy New Flyers and R-142s and MCI D4500s waltz in amid happy cheers from everyone. We danced to the music, it's time to pay the piper.
Here's the next revelation: Off-peak service cuts don't save very much money. How many buses sit in the garage during off-peak hours. The subway and railroad yards are filled with rail cars during off-peak hours. That's not where the money is being spent! It's the peak hour service that costs big bucks...why are so many transit agencies eager to hire PART-TIME LABOR? Well, splits cost big bucks. So do $350,000 motorcoaches that make 20 trips per week. Notice that the $2 fare will cover NYCT's contribution to the deficit with no government aid...any other proposal requires higher property and school taxes for SelkirkTMO, and a massive property tax hike in NYC that will make commuting from Trenton cheaper than living in the city (Bloomberg's big fear about his property tax hike is that the residents who can afford it will skip town...hence, the commuter tax). Therefore, a $1.75 transit fare will see RUSH HOUR service reductions, such as fewer subway trains on the L, G, and M lines because these are politically weak service areas. We will see express bus service reductions of up to 20% because that could raise the load factor on the existing buses from 35-40 passengers a bus to around 50 per bus, meaning systemwide standees between 6:30 and 8 on Staten Island, a borough that needs its express buses as much as the other boroughs need subways.
Here's another revelation: It's a possibility that the union may strike. Something tells me that Bloomberg will let them walk...after all, if Queens residents were willing to pay $1.50 plus a subway fare to get to work because of a localized bus strike, just imagine the outcry when all of the workers walk off the job. Then the news media will grab the most irate people they can find and stick them in front of the camera. It's all a big game: Local 100 gets the majority of their requests met, but they have to allow Regional Bus to go through (you think that the restructuring just meant all blue and white buses instead of two different paint schemes?). All of these plans are being made, assuming that the transit fare is $2.
Yes, it's a long post, but let's summarize my PREDICTIONS:
1) The fare is going up to $2...there is no way the fare will be anything less than that. There IS no other option. However, the railroad burden will be slightly less than proposed (they use their state senators more effectively...it's just the way it is).
2) The Straphangers' Campaign and all other genuine fare hike dissenters (don't believe the hype from Pataki...he doesn't want to have the fare hike on his hands, so he'll pass it to Bloomberg; likewise, the TWU's fare hike stance is RUBBISH) will be silenced by a massive shutdown of transit services due to a strike. This strike will be settled by December 30 so that the transit system is operational for First Night festivities. The general public will realize that they'll just have to fork over $2 because they cannot live without the transit system.
3) TWU Local 100 will receive a new contract to their liking in exchange for Regional Bus. Regional Bus elements will start to appear in the bus system in September 2003, with the integration of the franchise bus companies during 1st quarter 2004. The X23 and X24 will not enter the system before August 2004.
4) Railroad fares will go up about five percentage points less than planned in order to appease their riders and to thank them for putting up with higher transit fares.
OK, fire away.
To all,
Some time ago, I posted that I was suspending all updates to my website, www.orenstransitpage.com, until further notice due to the fact I was going to transfer to a new server. That is almost complete. I am expecting to establish access to the new server this weekend. In addition, all the pictures I took after my August visit to New York City (London, New England, Washington, DC area) will be on the site once the new server is accessible. A sampling is below:
The site will be closed entirely as the final changes are made to the site for the transfer. I will post here when the site reopens. As of now, the site is still available on the old server.
I apologize for the long wait for the pages to reopen but trust me, what is coming is worth the wait!
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com
As I was passing by the "Complex" at Landover, seeing if any Neoplans were delivered there, I saw about four or five Orion V of the 9600 series, stored where the stored 8700s are. Does anyone know if these buses are going to be retired or are they going to be repowered or just there for storage. I would guess they are maybe being repowered or just stored, as they wouldn't have rebuilt them a couple of years ago, only to retire them, especially over the non-rehabbed 8800s and 8900s. Can anyone tell me why these buses are there?
BX8 IS NOW OPERATING VIA HARDING AVE. & PENNYFIELD AVE. ELIMATING THROGGSNECK BLVD.
That's been in effect for a long time now
I always wondered why there were not more busses on the Williamsbridge Road Route.
It is a very long route. Yet, the busses come few and far between. They also use the older RTS-type busses.
Many many moons ago, the BX 8 terminated at Westchester Square. I could understand the few busses. But now that the route grew, it would seem reasonable to give it more busses.
Well the trip in on the N21 was slow, so I had to do the usual rushing, but the rest of the day turned out fine.
I took the MNRR Hudson line to Tarrytown (its worth the 50c more). It is one of the most scenic rail lines I have been on. Anyway I got the TZX bus at Tarrytown. It was an MCI D4500. And those things are rockets I tell ya.
Today the mall was totally different than last time. All the stores were open and it was actually busy. I managed to spend a whopping 6 hours in the mall!! I guess I will admit last time it was overshadowed by that whole outdoor photo interrogation. But today was fun.
I saw Coach USA buses there at the mall as well as alot of TOR Gilligs (unlike the MCI's, they look in bad shape).
Also I saw a Coach USA handbook in my TZX bus. Is TOR part of Coach USA?
Going back I took the TZX bus from lot J (it is an express skipping Tarrytown and the regular stop). That was a bit of a walk, and that lots is in the "middle of nowhere". I was lucky because it started to pour just as I got in the shelter. The bus actually showed up 10 min early (something youd never see at MTA). It was another D4500! Boy was I lucky. Made good time going to White plains except for some traffic in Westchester.
I got off a made an express train from White Plains, I wasnt supposed to make it but it was running late. And it was PACKED. I had to stand part of the way. And the train was a rumbler, it had flats (yeah I know it belongs in Subtalk hehe). They can also chew on the fact that going I saw the Redbird barge loaded to the brim with "deadbirds".
Anyway I have to highly recommend the TZX, its the only place you can ride an MCI for $1.50!
And I apologize for painting Palisades in a bad light. When I went tehre the last time it mustve been a fluke or something.
[Is TOR part of Coach USA?]
Most of the TOR local routes are contracted out to Rockland Coach. Part of Route 93 is run by Short Line. I believe all or a majority of the TPZ Express runs are contracted out to Short Line. As both Short Line and Rockland Coach are Coach USA companies, all of TOR is contracted out to Coach USA.
[Anyway I have to highly recommend the TZX, its the only place you can ride an MCI for $1.50!]
There are many places in New Jersey you can ride MCI D4500's or D4000's for the local one-zone fare of $1.10. (These routes go into NYC, but take local riders in New Jersey.)
See I told you it was a very good mall!I'm gonna go this Wednesday and time right so that I can leave there at 4PM and take a ride on the 20 bus with Mr.Logan.That'll be a very fun trip I'm sure.
I took the MNRR Hudson line to Tarrytown (its worth the 50c more). It is one of the most scenic rail lines I have been on.
That it is. It may be one of the nicest in the country, aside from maybe the Pacific Coast route.
When WMATA gets its Neoplan artics, which garage will get them? Will it be Bladensburg, Northern, or Montgomery? Or will they REALLY surprise us and send them to a Virginia Garage?
They will go to Bladensburg and Montgomery since they are doing a 1 to 1 replacement for the MANs which were assigned there, at least that is my guess. They will not go to Virginia (Four Mile Run gets the next group of CNGs).
where are those MANs lately? are they still in service?
You can find the remaining MANs on Montgomery routes during peak hours. I see them often on the Z11, Z17, and Z29. The J2 and Q2 also use artics, but I haven't seen the MANs on these routes lately. I'm guessing that Bladensburg still has a few MAN artics as well. If they do... you can find them on the X1. They also use the MANs on the shuttles to Fed Ex field.
Wayne
The surviving Bladensburg MANN artics are 5101, 5106, 5116, 5119(repainted in new paint scheme), 5121 and 5126
What would be a bigger shock would be to see these things at Landover. Even though they had NABI 60' 5242-44, they were transferred out about 5 years ago, to Montgomery 5242 and to Bladensburg 5243 and 44. They are highly likely to go to Bladensburg and Montgomery, with about 11-13 going to Bladensburg and 9-11 going to Montgomery. I am pretty sure these will be the last high floors WMATA will order, of course WMATA could surprise me, they have in the past.
Which Landover routes did the NABI artics operate on?
Wayne
I remember seeing one on the T15/16/17 back a few years ago. Maybe one was assigned to the A12/15 one of Landover's heaviest trafficked lines.
The T18 had about one or two, the F14, C22, also had use of the artics. Surprisingly, the P12, F4 and the J12 didn't see any artics, at least not that I spotted and these are the some of the heaviest used Landover routes. The A12, I think might use them at one time or another. The closing of Landover Mall sort of killed the A12 ridership, to a point where service was reduced to around 18 minutes during peak periods, even though I think unofficially they are still running every 15 minutes.
I am pretty sure these will be the last high floors WMATA will order
You know, I tend to disagree with you on that. While all too many transit systems have made the lofty commitment to go 100% low floor, it seems to me that WMATA has the good sense to maintain an appropriate balance in their fleet. Think about it. Could you really imagine low floors on the 29-line routes or on the express Z-line routes? I certainly foresee the number of low floors in the WMATA fleet to grow, but I sincerely think that they will continue to buy standard-floor buses.
Just look at what they did in 2000: they bought low floors and standard floors. And if they were so hellbent on LFs, what was stopping them from going LF on the replacement artic order?
Low floors will do well on most DC city routes and some of the "pseudo-urban" routes in the 'burbs, but WMATA has a whole assortment of longer-distance, infrequently-stopping commuter routes where a standard-floor bus is more comfortable and more appropriate.
I dare say that if the Neoplan artics are successful, WMATA might be buying standard-floor 40-foot Neoplans! 9500s redux!
I would like it if they kept buying high floor buses along with low floors, but honestly other than the Neoplans that are coming and the 2100-2200 Orion Vs they have bought everything else low floors, including 164 CNG New Flyers, 100 Orion 6s and those dreaded Orion 2s.
Most of the other local transit systems have so far shunned the low floor bus, with (surprisingly The Bus having the most with 17 SLFs). I find it hard to imagine and hard to see low floors on the X2 (which should be all artics), be it 40' or 60'. I hope you are right that WMATA won't go all low floor, but they might be phasing out purchasing high floors slowly.
Today, I decided to get a little bold so I decide that I am going to ride the entire A line from Far Rockaway to 207 St[thw whole subway story is in Subtalk under the topic My trip on the A]. So I leave my house around 4:00-4:15pm and I start by taking RTS 8529 on the B8 to Newkirk Av train station then I hop on a R68 (Q) for 2 stops to Av J, then I wait for a B6 or B11. So I let local 9108 go so I wait for the LTD, which is a bad mistake b/c I end up waiting 15 minutes before ANY bus shows up, 6 or 11. The 6 LTD, 9109 shows up with 9110, a local and at Flatbush Av, a wheelchair was getting off but the lift did not get activated, causing a 5-10 minute delay with a crowd waiting for the bus. So I take it to Nostrand Av where it starts to rain & I have to wait 10 minutes for the Q35, where I will head towards the Rockaways.
So I hop on RTS 611 and I stand too far away from the Q35 stop on Nostrand and I nearly miss it. So we go average speed via Flatbush Av b/c of the rain & traffic until we leave Av U. A intersting sight is that I saw Orion 5534 on the Q35! So then the driver really pushes the gas but by Toys R'Us, the speed gets ruined since one person boards from there. Then, we get consistent speed again[about 45-50mph] we have green signals all the way to the bridge, go through the tolls across the Marine Pk Bridge; it gives a nice view; and we have a EMPTY road, the bus splashes water on the roadway that could give someone a shower and I take it to B149, where I will wait for the Q22. As expected, there's a crowd there who looked like they waited 10 minutes already b/c the bus shelter didn't hold everybody that was there. Every time I ride the 22, it NEVER came within 10 minutes of myself getting off there [usually 12 min and one time took 20 minutes only to see 2 come together].
So we wait 10 minnutes until a opp. 22, 1163 for some reason waits at B149 until 1143 passes it and u-turns just after 149 St. So I hop on the Q22[1143] and I will ride it across the Rockies[Rockaways] all the way to the last stop. Man, these drivers are lucky to have routes like this and could really build some speed and have wide, not so crowded roads and it looks so isolated in the Rockaways until you hit B116 St. Its the first time I ever rode a Green Lines TMC. So I go onto the A and I hop on a R38 and I ride the entire A line to 207 St, which took me 93 minutes and my legs were aching from standing w/o sitting for so long. Then I ride it back to 42 St, where I hop on a R68A Q train to Newkirk Av and then hop on a New Flyer and I take the B8 home. This trip took 5 hours though but I enjoyed it.
RTS 8529 B8
R68 2779 (Q)
RTS 9109 B6 LTD
GBL RTS 611 Q35
GBL RTS 1143 Q22
R38 3975 (A)
R38 4119 [Return] (A)
R68A 5062 (Q)
NF 871 B8
"A intersting sight is that I saw Orion 5534 on the Q35!"
On weekends, most of the service in the Rockaway division (Q21, Q22, Q35) is provided by Orions and Novas. But on weekdays, it is nearly impossible to catch one.
As far as your wait for the Q22, boy were you lucky. There have been numerous occasions where I would have to wait 30-40 minutes for the Q22. The Q35 was no picnic either. I stopped going to Kings Plaza just for this reason.
Glad you enjoyed your trip.
There are NO NOVAS at GBL. They're 1993-1994 TMC RTS Buses.
I'd rather ride a TMC than those LOUSY Onions anyday.
#1152 Q35
Oh, okay. For a transit bus, I like the Green Bus Lines, Orions. But as an express bus, oh no.
I agree. I would sure like to see MCI Cruisers for the Express Lines rather than those lousy Onions. Those beat up shoeboxes should only be on the local lines. However-1+ about those Onions at GBL:
The Orange Sign.
#701 QM15
#5527 Q60
Whoa, MCI Cruisers on the Express buses, including the QM17-I would never ride the "A" train during rush hours again.
Have you forgotten that the Q35 isn't the only bus that goes to Kings Plz? You got the B2,3,9,41,46,and 47.Use them.
Thanks.
>>"On weekends, most of the service in the Rockaway division (Q21, Q22, Q35) is provided by Orions and Novas. But on weekdays, it is nearly impossible to catch one."<<
The Orions are mostly on the Q10, Q11 and the express routes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, a whole crowd of people under the shelter. One time I had to wait 15-20 minutes for a Q22 only to see 2 come together to come and once I had to wait 30 minutes for a Q35 back to Brooklyn. I rode the Q21 once a few years ago and luckily I had to wait ONLY 15-20 minutes on a weekday, while that's still not too great, it beats waiting longer. Imagine someone waiting 72!
Depending on where you live, there are other buses besides the Q35[unless you're heading to Toys R' Us or some other place via Flatbush towards the bridge] that you can travel on to reach Kings Plaza the B2,3,9,41,46 and 47. Look you have 6 options there there's no reason you should have stopped going there. And BTW, they don't have Novas they have TMC's.
No, on weekends, the bulk of the Q22 is served by the Orions.
Lately the Q11 has been seeing more of the 96 inch wide RTS's rather than the Orion's.The Orions are more common on the Q60.
From a distance (upstate New York), the media coverage of the New York Bus Service issue has been somewhat less than illuminating. NYBS itself presents its case very openly in a letter on its website (http://www.nybus.com/news%20release.htm). I have yet to see any intelligent discussion in the media regarding the attempt by the Bloomberg administration to remove the City from these pension obligations. Is this unfair to the private operators? Given the way the city subsidies gradually came into effect, it's difficult to say if the private operators should have assumed that they would always be responsible for the pensions. Is the city correct in its position? Should MTA obligation of the pensions be part of any takeover?
From reading the NYBS release, it appears that the company is leaving an opening to keep the Bronx services operating if a satisfactory agreement can be reached on the pension obligations. One would hope that an agreement can be reached to keep this service running.
Jim D.
[Given the way the city subsidies gradually came into effect, it's difficult to say if the private operators should have assumed that they would always be responsible for the pensions. Is the city correct in its position?]
That depends... Does the city currently contribute (or has it ever contributed) to employee pension plans for ANY municipal contractors other than the bus companies? If yes, then it should pay into NYBS's employee pensions; if not, then it should not pay.
If this was part of the contract understanding, pay up.
If this wasn't, then the Coopers better pay attention.
Paying into the pensions plans has never been part of the contract (and yes, unlike most of the people on this board I have actual read the contracts)
DOT has totaly mismanaged the bus contracts for years. For instance should two companies owned by the same owner operate as separate compainies (on paper only) and thus the president take two six figure salaries.
NY bus service has run a very good operation. Thier buses are well maintianed and riders generally like the level of service. The put their monies paid by the city into thier service.
Except for transfering the cost of the bus routes to the state, creating MTA regional bus may or many not save the taxpayers of this fair state money
New York Bus Service was rated the best of all the private bus companies in New York City. Ownership really cared about their passengers and their equipment
Fact-They are still operating Fishbowls when no one else is
Fact-They maintain schedules. They keep a bus and driver at East 23rd Street whose sole purpose is if a bus breaks down en route to Manhattan from the Bronx to replace that bus if its is needed. Can you imagene the TA sending a bus to Manhattan and keeping them there all day to replace a bus if one breaks dowwn.( I am not being critical of the TA).
Fact-New York Bus Service made the DOT take back its 1999 Orion Surburbans because the passengers did not like them. He accepted 1988/89 MCI Classics in exchange and then went out and had the buses overhauled
The advantage of the TA operating all bus service in the city is as follows:
1-Eliminates duplicate functions in schedules and support services
2-The TA is accountable because it is a public agency.
3-If the private companies performance is below par they do not get performance standards but yet the ownership gets a guarnteed profit.
I was in business and if i had a guarnteed profit i wouldn't do one item more than i had to if i did not profit from it.
Whats the DOT going to do. give the route to another company who wanted it?
4-Believe it or not service can be improved if the TA ran all bus service in the city.
Look at the Command B-100 which duplicates the B-2 except for a short 2 blocks on Flatbush Ave. What a waste
Thats my opinion
Thank You
I use both the b-100 and b-2 and yes it is a waste to have both buses running nearly identical routes. The waste primarilay is on off hours. During rush hours, both bus lines pull out of kings hoghway at full loads. The Ta deadhaeads most b-2's back to kings highway during the evening rush. It would be a huge cost savings if the ta could use articulated buses during rush hours on the combined b2/b100 route
If the ta would take over command they would still need two flavors of the route due to the b-100 going into mill basin while the b-2 going to kings plaza. This is not much of a problem because many B-2's durring rush hour terminate at AVE S and flatbush. Have these b-2's run into mill basin. The b100 is 3/4 empty by the time it reached flatbus ave.
Would you suggest that the B-2's extended to Mill Basin from Ave S/Flatbush travel via Fillmore Avenue like the current B-100? That should not be a problem, it can bear left on to Utica, then make a right on to Fillmore.
If the TA takes over the Command routes then the B-2 will be extended from Flatbush/Ave U to 56th Drive/Strickland Ave via Ave U and E.66th Street.
This was done in 1979 when the B-2 was temporary extended after Pioneer Bus ceased operations until Command was started later that year
Thank You
Unfortunately, that leaves riders along the Fillmore Ave segment with a long walk to an alternative bus. Either to Avenue U or to Avenue N. That's not really acceptable during peak hours, when people are not in the mood to start walking when they never had to before. In 1979, it was perceived as only a temporary situation, so they dealt with it.
I am familair with the area. In most cases they will be a two block walk from Fillmore Ave between Utica and E. 56th Street to the Ave U routes Between E. 56th St and Mill Ave its only one block.
Because the B-2 has to go to Kings Plaza it will be an incovience to some B-100 passengers
Thank You
during rush hour not all B-2's go to Kings plaza. In addtion the TA will not be able to cut many combined b2/b100 runs from say 5:30-7:15 because the passenger load is heavy at those times. That is why I suggested articulated buses during those time periods
Althought the overall passenger volume does not seam great. Most pasengers on both those lines come right off the q express thus creating huge peaks and valleys as the q diamonds arrive.
Often times riders get turned away and have to wait because the bus is full
nyct did indeed keep spare buses in manhattan in case a staten island express broke down or run not covered,accident,random,etc.
Yes that is what i am suggesting.
It could also turn on Filmore and 36th street. The prefered route would need to be determined through community input.
The real savings would be had during off peak hours and if they could use Articulated buses on some rush hour runs. I know many of the turns on the route are tight but I have read that the articiculated buses actually have a tighter turning route
Use Articulated buses assume flatbush depot will be getting thest buses for the B-44 and can spare a few during rush hours.
The combination B-2/b100 definitly can support articulated buses during rush hour
Forget about articulated buses coming to Brooklyn. Its not going to happen and if it did they will only be used on heavy routes like the B-41,B-44 or B-46
A B-2/B-100 route combination just will not need them as ridership just does not warrent it.
Thank You
I agree, it would not be necessary plus the basic reason for artics is to run on heavy usage routes. Expect Brooklyn to stay wih 40 footers for a long time, which would be better IMO. Don't be surprised if CS gets artics [mainly for the Q44] before they even think of giving Brooklyn artics and it would just be too much for artics to handle B41, B44 and B46 crowds and Brooklyn streets.
If CS were to ge artics, I wonder if that would bring more Orions to Brooklyn, well JG, unless other depots take them and have the 'patience' to take buses to JG to re-fuel but UP would have the easiest time and I would like them to recieve a better bus roster.
***and it would just be too much for artics to handle B41, B44 and B46 crowds and Brooklyn streets***
Are you kidding me?
***unless other depots take them and have the 'patience' to take buses to JG for re-fuel.***
Again, are you kidding me? Depots don't take buses. They are assigned to depots by upper management. They can only be assigned to a depot that has the capability of maintaining them. U.P. will NEVER see a CNG as long as it doesn't have CNG fueling capabilities.
BIG AL
I'm not counting on artics to come to Flatbush depot anytime soon. I would probably be wrong about them running in Brooklyn but you never know, anything could happen.
>>"Again, are you kidding me? Depots don't take buses. They are assigned to depots by upper management. They can only be assigned to a depot that has the capability of maintaining them. U.P. will NEVER see a CNG as long as it doesn't have CNG fueling capabilities."<<
You know that's what I meant[I know I should have typed it the first time]. I know UP has NO chance of getting Orions or any CNG vehicle in the forseeable future. I could dream, can't I.........
This is the 1st of the 7 DOT Comapnies that will be ceasing their operations. All are scheduled to cease by March 1, 2003.
Also a looming strike and fare hike-this city is a complete mess.
#1979 X1
Isnt that around the time when MTA Bus is formed??? Hmmmm.........
I just found out there was another bus accident in CT on Friday, this one in New Haven. 2 coaches were involved, one rearending the other on an onramp to I-91 North. The buses,reportedly one a DATTCO and the other a Double A coach, were carrying members of Yale University's Glee Club to Boston for today's Harvard/Yale football game. Several of the passengers were taken to area hospitals for treatment of minor injuries.
Mark
A puzzle: A Bronx resident asked me about the yellow buses lined up curbside at the Bronx HS of Science (just west of Concourse Yard). She said they appear to be a different kind of bus for student transportation, not the usual truck chassis, and she has not seen red flashers working. At one time, that school had special NYC TA services that showed up on the Queens bus list (reverse of the Queens map). I have not visited the neighborhood to look them over. Does anyone know their use? Thanks.
The TA does have a few bus routes for Bronx HS of Science. The yellow school buses are made by a company called "Bluebird". These are the same kind of buses as on those crosstown NY Waterways bus shuttles. Bluebird school buses are mostly used in suburban areas.
The yellow school buses are operated by a company from College Pt., Queens. The buses are labeled 'BRONX SCIENCE' on both sides of the bus where the bus company name usually is. The operator name is in small letters on the lower panel under the driver's compartment. The cost for Queens students is $250 a month. These buses go all over north & south eastern Queens. In addition, the NYCT X32 also services Bx. Science from Queens. It starts at 3 different locations, Bay Terrace, Oakland Gardens (2 trips) & Jamaica. They all make a last stop at 14 Ave. & Parsons Blvd. then go over the Whitestone Bridge. There are 4 trips in the a.m. & 3 leaving at the same time for the p.m. dismissal. The yellow buses have a later bus for students that participate in after school activities (debate team, chess team, etc.)
There are also Mabstoa buses specifically designated for Bx. Science, but BLX doesn't recall the route # & amount of service.
It's quite odd that Liberty Lines Express (LLE) once serviced the BHS, servicing students from Manhattan to the school. But someone complained that students must be transported exclusively in a yellow school bus. So LLE had to give up the school. And LLE also provided a similar service (to and from Manhattan) for Fieldston School and Riverdale Country School )both in Riverdale). And a company named SUPERTRANS got all this work and still operates. (Wonder who complained??)
How is it then that the NYCT can transport students to BHS without any legal problem?
Route X32 has operated for many years. It's a regular, scheduled route. Anybody who wants to ride it (student or otherwise) is welcome to ride it. Perhaps Liberty Lines tried to limit ridership to students and was met with protests.
David
That's interesting to notice that LLE once ran school specials. Is there a special fare for the X32 or is it the regular $3 like all the other express routes? All info is appreciated. Thanx.
[Is there a special fare for the X32 or is it the regular $3 like all the other express routes? All info is appreciated. Thanx.]
It's a regular express route, so the regular express fare and transfer privileges apply for anybody who feels like riding.
[How is it then that the NYCT can transport students to BHS without any legal problem?]
Simple: The trips that Liberty Lines had to give up (and which SuperTrans took over) were charters, dedicated for students and closed to the general public; THAT's why the yellow-bus rule kicked in. The X32 is set up as just another express route, open to anybody with $3, so that regular transit buses can be used.
Well LLE still runs right near Bronx Science High School,The BXM4A.
The end of the BXM4A Line is at 205 St and Paul Ave just close by the school. There's a 7:15 AM BXM4 Bus that comes from manhattan to 205/Paul by 8:25-8:30 AM.
So I guessing it's because it also has to do with haveing a Regular Reverse Peak Bus and maybe those trips are close to the 7:15
That is just like my school.There are convential yellow school buses for the Mount saint micheal shuttle bus service.$550 for the year.And then the MTA provides a BX41 bus and 3 Bx16 buses.Only 1 trip for the 41 and the BX16 like 4.
AMTRAK MODELIN'
Here's the buses that serve right by or near by Bronx Science HS.
That's 205 St and Paul Ave BTW.
MTA:BX10,BX22,BX25,BX26,BX28
LLE:BXM4A
BL: 4,20/21
And also the 4 Train is near by as well
Today's NY Times (page B1, 1.14.2003) has a photo and article about the Bronx Science yellow Blue Birds and James Gagnon. Any comments about the article?
it's the person who donated enough money to get them started... hence the name " The Gagnons".
Also available in the Times online
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I'm pissed off at the stupid vandal named 'ZARE'. This stupid vandal tag is easily spotted on Gun Hill's equipment. This parasite may have infected other depots' routes.
Who the hell is ZARE and howd they manage to carve their stuff into the windows without being caught ( afterall, the bus operator can see the entire length of the bus)?
Who else has seen this crap??????
Is the bus operator supposed to be a cop too? Besides, the operator is watching the road and not the side windows. How can he when the bus is crowded? We do not want to see him/her get stabbed or beat up by Zare or his low life friends should the driver catch him and have him arrested. And the cops won't do a thing because the arresting officer saw nothing if he wasn't riding the bus undercover! Don't you want your mommy or daddy to come home after work? The loved ones of the driver feel the same way. It ain't worth it! We've had 2 transit workers killed in the past couple of days. We do not want to see bus drivers added to that tally.
About the crowding scenario: Are these taggers brave enough to do this when EVERYONE can see them?
When the bus isn't so crowded: It must suck (being in the B/O's position) seeing this happening and can't do anything about it.
Why doesn't the TA have more cameras installed on busses, like they did in some 10xx series busses?
I doubt if Zare really cares if anyone else sees him, especially if he does it in the presence of his school kids pals.
[Are these taggers brave enough to do this when EVERYONE can see them?]
Sure - if the other passengers are afraid of having their faces tagged with ZARE's name.
RIGHT ON, BILL !!
This "ZARE" person has infected many MaBSTOA buses, and 126th St Depot buses as well, iirc...I've seen it first on MCH Orion #6039, then it spread to Gun Hill, KB, Manhattanville, even Hudson Pier garage...practically, any garage with bus routes that go through Harlem, East Harlem, or West Harlem, coincidentally...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
AHA!! Busses get tagged when they run on the BX12!!! Eureka!
Well, not necessarily...they usually get tagged when they are on lines like the Bx19 (MCH), M101 (MV), M102 (MJQ), M103 (MV), M11 (HP), M60(MV), M2 (MV), and Bx6 (AMS)...to name a few...and some KB lines like the Bx7 and Bx36...afaik
Carlton
Cleanairbus
I say the BX12 since it's the only Gunhill line to leave the Boro.
Very well...though I haven't really seen the ZARE tags on Gun Hill buses...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
D60's are prime targets. Try looking at the last 4 windows.
Umm...I live near lines that have artics, the Bx2, Bx4, Bx41, and Bx55, so I know it all too well...don't have to tell me twice! (lol)
But I never see "ZARE" on the artics...I usually see them on the RTS's and Orions...for some reason...maybe this ZARE person has never been in the Bronx or just doesn't like artics fearing, jokingly, like many people, that the rear half will disconnect from the front and fall off...??? (lmao)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
That's interesting.....The only Gunhill busses I have seen ZARE on are the artics. Maybe the KB RTS' are prettier than GH RTS'...../.
Oh, nooooooooooooo.....
If anything, Kingsbridge's bus fleet, in terms of cleanliness and vandalism, are far less pleasing than that of Gun Hill...I saw #9696 on the Bx11 line today, with remnants of vandalism in three places on the side...and we are NOT talking about the inside of the bus...and also I should point that their fleet looks grimy, dirt-ridden...they look awful...so I wouldn't be surprised if KB buses had a tidbit more vandalism...Gun Hill...I guess this guy roams the Bronx, too, like we said...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Although some folks at the Gun Hill depot have been responsible for some vandalism. Does 'Ring or RIDE' ring a bell( Big hint)? Someone's been writing RING OR RIDE on the bell lights in both the front and back of the bus, as well as writing various things at the front of the bus.
You'd be pissed if I reregistered with that name, would you!?
Just poking some fun, flyerlover! :-)
He must be a "Scratchitti" artist, but I see that name on damn near every bus that runs in Manhattan and The Bronx.
tonight me and a friend went to a caps game and i rode the university's shuttle buses for the first time. i rode on a 30 ft, 96 inch wide flx metro-b to and from college park metro station. those buses are blazingly fast! what engines do these things have? i dont remember the fleet number of the first bus but i did ride 41 on the way back from the metro station. buses are also clean inside. i was also amazed they let the drivers carry small radios to listen to while driving. that's pretty awesome.
GO TERPS!
The UMD 30096 METRO-B's have the Cummins L-10 and some have the DD 6V-92.
Wayne
I LOVE both of those engines! I hope they keep those Flxes around for a while....
-F.
Me too! UMD has 2 40-foot (96 inches) METRO-B's and both have the Cummins L-10/Voith combination. I used to see them on the Silver Spring Metro route quite often, but htat changed when the 01' Gilligs arrived. I do see them when I'm at the car wash on US route 1.
Wayne
I'm sure the first series of Flx Metro B's will be retired soon. They came to the University in 1986 or 87 and had a ton of mileage on them when I was driving 8 years ago, so I can imagine what they have on them now. It was great to drive those buses. I loved the braking on the DD's, but liked the acceleration on the Cummins. If only they could have been combined! The braking on the Cummins were very hard on your knees from having to press down on them.
Oh? Did either bus have a retarder?
-F.
Hmm, not sure. They probably did, which would most likely explain their quirky behaviors. Some of the Cummins were governed at 66 MPH, which bit big time when we had to do highway trips, but the detroit diesels didn't have any and we would tear those things up on I-95.
Wayne, I recently rode an ex-SCVTA Flx with the L-10/Voith combo and it was smooth as silk..just hummed along. Bet those UMs are beauties!
-Fred
I never rode on UMD's (they require student/employee ID), but I ridden plenty of METRO's with the Cummins L-10/Voith combo at WMATA, MARTA and Bee Line (and soon Metro-Dade) and I'd have to agree with you. Overall my favorite are probably Bee Line with their unusual Detroit/Voith combo.
Wayne
Glad you enjoyed your first ride on Shuttle UM. Bus 41 was my least favorite to drive. They had to repower it at one time because it had absolutely no acceleration and was considered a hazzard. My favorites when I drove there were 30-35 and 42-47. Bus 46 was totalled from what I understand though. That and 47 were the only Flxs with wheelchair lifts. 40' Flx 67-68 were good also. Used to get those when I did charters. 36-41 were the worst batches. In fact, you had to start 36 from the engine compartment for some time because the ignition in the front did not work.
We definitely were allowed to use radios as long as it did not distract the other passengers and we could still hear the two way radio with dispatch.
I saw this intereting RTS about a week ago and forgot to mention it here.
All white with a Keith Haring 'hyroglyph' in red on the sides. Got the number off the front. The rollsign had 'Hospital Audiences' on it (w/on black). I believe the depot was Jackie Gleason.
Unfortunately I did not have my camera with me.
Anyone have any info on this unusual bus?
they have two buses. one is 1848 a 1982 rts suburban and another from another transit system whose rear doors slide open. they are garaged at gleason and driven by nyct drivers. they take people from nursing homes to malls etc. where is 4219 involved.
Hospital Audiences has 2 ex-MTA buses
1848 and 4219 - That's where it's involved. I have seen both up close.
Both have parallel seats (like the New Looks along the windows) in sets of 3's and these seats are ex-Suburban seats from 1981,1982,1985 RTSs - plastic soft seats that would normally be located where the W/C lift is in the rear - they fold up when needed.
I had actually forgotten about these buses. I hadn't seen them in a few years. Anyone remember when the Parks Dept. had a GMC TDH-5301 in the TA's green color scheme???
Wayne
Is it now carrying fleet #4219? Last time I saw it, it only had a small "1" sticker on the rear (it's HAI's "Omni*Bus 1"). Note that it isn't an NYCT-spec bus; the rear doors are flush with the body.
Photos
Thanks for your responses.
although pleading poverty nyct is giving out ot galore. a friend who works in eny cmf did three double shifts this week. he now has bags under his eyes from lack of sleep.
Probably cheaper to give out OT than to have additional personnel with their additional fringe benefits.
David
The MTA is like a money tree. Keep shaking it and money will fall. In the mid 70's Abe Beame was laying off thousands (cops, teachers, etc.) due to the fiscal crisis. Daily News headline 'FORD TO NYC-DROP DEAD' Do you remember? Anyway, only 2 agencies were able to take on those laid off workers because they were offered revenue producing jobs. Many laid off got gigs with the NYC Traffic Dept. (writing tickets) and with the TA (Bus operators). As of now, the money is there. Oh oh, I forget, on E True Hollywood story, right now, The Curse of The Little Rascals. I already miised the 1st half hour. See ya later.
Has anyone else noticed the difference of the engine in 8419 of Flatbush from the rest of the repowers of the 1993 TMC's?[I know that selected 1990/1991 TMC's are repowered as well]. I was waiting for a B8 recently and 8419 was running as a B49 and I noticed that the engine sounded almost exactly like a engine found in a 1997/1998 Nova! How did that happen and how come this is the only repower that I know of that has this?
Weird but not uncommon. When I photographed bus #8472 on the M31, it sounded just like a 1997-1998 Nova but there was a high piercing sound as it moves. Again, weird but not uncommon.
I noticed the same thing and you are right, 8419 does sound like the 1998/99 Novas. Bus 8419 was the very first RTS to be repowered. It wouldn't be for another month or two before the other RTS's got repowered. That may explain it.
I know that 8419 was the very first repower of all the models that are cyrrently carrying them. I rode it on the B8 when it had a fresh paint job[looked like it just came back from being reowered] in spring 2001 but oddly, this bus was running in ENY with ENY stickers! Its good b/c the old engines on the 1993 TMC's were horrible, they were extremely slow and I could give a lot of experiences with those.
hmmm on another simar story i saw a nabi in septa sound like septa new flyer
Hi All,
Last Thursday night I had the pleasure of riding with The TOR-nado on two of his runs. Without question, Trevor is definitely among the smoothest and quickest operator's I've had the pleasure to ride with. He is without a doubt a shining example of a true professional.
We departed the PABT on the 21 at 6:10 PM. Though he was disappointed at not having a new D4000 as his steed for the night, the older MCI 9B, 25284, certainly held her own. Once out of the city, cruising on the New Jersey Turnpike at 65 MPH was effortless. I even had a quick demonstration of the "confuse the DDEC" trick to get a little more speed out of the bus. There was absolutely no drama, as the 1988 MCI plied northward.
I was amazed at how clean 25284 was, thinking to myself: "wow, the NYCDOT's MCI Classics are the same age but save for NYBS's coaches, are in no where near as great a shape". Trevor confirmed for me that he indeed takes pride in his bus, for when we reached the last stop, he took the time to inspect the bus and discard of any left over service items. His announcements could honestly rival the automated voices on the R-142/R-143 and those found on the newer Orions at LIB.
As we reached the northern destination of the 21, weather conditions did not permit for a lengthy layover. Here Trevor's knowledge came to play as he had barely enough time to arrive at the terminal for his return trip on the 84. Sure enough, like a fine navigator, he arrived at his terminal on time. The 84 takes you through scenic Northern Bergen County to the GWB bus terminal. Many workers seem to use this bus to get back to their homes in the city, and despite more than a few instances of passengers not having proper fares or attempting to pass large bills, professionalism reigned supreme. By now, the weather had turned cold and rainy, yet, without feeling in jeopardy at all, we arrived on time and without incident. There were never any episodes of short stopping, drastic moves in reaction to other drivers or any of the other dramatics one sometimes finds with other operators.
A treat of a ride awaits you when you ride with Trevor!
Regards,
Mark Valera
Trevor is 100% class all the way around.
I concur, I've had the privlege of meeting T.Lo and he's an all around gentleman.
T.Lo's COOL!!! He knows everything there is to know about New Flyers (Drool)!!!
Aww man,someone managed to ride with Trevor before me. -pouts- darn. oh well.We'll see about next Wednesday.to hell with this Wednesday,it's supposed to snow from what they and there's no way I'm gonna deal with that.
Sounds like Trevor is quite the driver; I guess all that NJT experience will really hone your skills!
-F.
NJT ain't do a damn thing for me, I started driving buses at the age of 11!
Regards,
Trevor
and how exactly did you manage that.
My family is in the business, that's all I gonna say!
I did find the roster I was looking for, it was posted in October of 2000 by RTS T80 206 and has a few minor errors, some of which I have attempted to correct in this post.
My observations for today consist only of 9624 on the B11 (Montgomery)
The following buses have their locations known:
4300-4309, 9201-9209, and 9407-9412 are all at Western. 3900, 9624, 439X-4412, and 9221-9224 are all at Montgomery. WES is compiling the Landover data at this time. I know some other stuff but I am still have to remember it and recall it. I will try to get the posts from here, but also send me an e-mail with the info if you can. Finally, if you want, feel free to use the following abbreviations in your e-mails and maybe even BT posts:
Montgomery-M
Arlington-A
Western-W
Four Mile Run-F
Royal-R
Northern-N
Bladensburg-B
Southern-S
Landover-L
2000-2099 ? : 2000 Orion VI 06.501
2000-2231 : 2000 Orion V 05.501
3700 or 3701 to ???: 1999 Orion II 02.501 26 foot
3717 and 3718 are for route 98
3900-3949? : 1998 Orion V 05.505 30 foot
4001-4104 : 1995 Flxible Metro E 40102-4-1
4200-4412 : 1998 Orion V 05.501
5080-5099 ? : 1988 Gillig Phantom 30 foot
RETIRED
5101-51xx : 1983 M-A-N SG 310 60 foot
Semi-retirement, some are still running at Bladensburg and possibly Montgomery
5150-5184 ? : 1989 Flxible Metro B 30096-6T-1
All in WMATA colors now, locations TBD
5201-5245 : 1995 Ikarus 436 60 foot
8701-8850 : 1986 Flxible Metro A 40102-6T-1
8851-8951 : 1987 Flxible Metro A 40102-6T-1, 40102-6C-1
9001-9115 : 1979 GMC RTS T8W 603
RETIRED
9201-9239 : 1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6T-1
9240-9278 : 1988 Flxible Metro B 40096-6T-1, 40096-6C-1
9301-9413 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1
9414-9456 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40096-6C-1
9480-9497 ? : 1990 Flxible Metro B 35102-6C-1
9601-9660 : 1992 Orion V 05.501
9701-9785 : 1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1
9801-9835 : 1994 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1, 40102-4T-1
2300-24??: New Flyer C40LFs
all at Bladensburg
Ah! My knowledge has sharpened over the last two years! Allow me to provide some corrections to my own roster. Better yet, here's an updated version of the same thing:
2000-2099 : 2000 Orion 06.501
2100-2229 : 2000 Orion 05.501
2300-2473 : 2002 New Flyer C40LF
3701-3740 : 1999 Orion 02.501
3900-3949 : 1999 Orion 05.505
4001-4104 : 1995 Flxible Metro E 40102-4T-1
4200-4412 : 1997 Orion 05.501
5101-5133 : 1983 MAN SG 310
5151-5185 : 1989 Flxible Metro B 30096-6T-1
5201-5245 : 1995 American Ikarus 436
5301-5321 : 2002 Neoplan AN-460-A
8700-8774 : 1986 Flxible Metro A 40102-6-1
8800-8874 : 1986 Flxible Metro A 40102-6-1
8775-8799 : 1987 Flxible Metro A 40102-6-1
8875-8926 : 1987 Flxible Metro A 40102-6-1, 40102-6C-1
8951-8965 : 1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6-1
9201-9239 : 1989 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1
9251-9289 : 1989 Flxible Metro B 40096-6C-1
9301-9413 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1
9421-9462 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40096-6C-1
9481-9498 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 35102-6C-1
9601-9660 : 1992 BIA Orion 05.501
9701-9785 : 1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1
9801-9835 : 1994 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1, 40102-4T-1
Whew! I think that's the current fleet. It kills me inside not to be able to include RTSs and New Looks on this list!
Actually the 2000 Orion Vs went from 2100-2231, the 30', 1998 Orion Vs went from 3900-3950 and two more Orion IIs were added in 2000 I think bringing that number to 3701-3742. Also last but not least 9421-9463.
Speaking of retired buses, if they are added also include Neoplans 9500-9575, and first WMATA MANNs 5001-5043.
Was that a misprint or did WMATA buy more C40LFs, I thought they were numbered only 2300-2463.
Do you know where the Smartmover insignias on the 4400s end? I know of course they start at 4400, but not sure at what number it ends.
Used to be 4412 but now its down to 4408.
The only "special" buses I am aware of that are susposed to be used on the same routes all the time are these:
4400-4408 Smartmover
4390-4394 or 4395 B30
3717-3718 98
Thanks, I was just wondering.
Unless it's closed, there's also "P" for Prince George's depot.
Michael
Washington, DC
Prince George's is still open, it is now called the Annex. The buses in this garage used so much on Southern routes and Southern buses, are used on Annex routes, that both are considered as one garage. Things will change when a new Southern and/or a new Prince George's bus garage is built (maybe decades down the road).
Where is the Annex located?
Wayne
It is located at the intersection of Southern Avenue and Coral Hills Road. It used to serve most of Prince George's County, but when Landover opened, most of the routes in Central P.G. as well as the P12, H11, 12, 14(in the old days, H14 has since been discontinued) and the K12,14,19 (K14 and 19 discontinued and replaced by the K11,13).
When the Annex is replaced it would take the following routes
This is just a guesstimation:
D12,13,14, C11,12,13,14,18, P12,17,18,19, W13,14,15,17,19, H11,12, K11,12,13 with the possibility of the F14, V12 and the M6 transferring too, of course this is just a guess.
Thanks - I'll have to cruise by there. At that point I would've found all of WMATA's depots. I passed by Southeastern recently and it appears that there some construction going on there. Is it being renovated or patched up until it's replaced????
Wayne
It is right next to a strip mall and behind another one. They need to replace that one very soon. They have been trying to replace that garage for about ten years.
What do you mean by Southern routes? Do you mean Clinton and Waldorf or do you mean Southern as in Southeastern Division?
Michael
Washington, DC
I meant Southern as in Southern Garage. My bad if I didn't make that clear.
Does anyone know the history of the Neoplan articulated bus (http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Buses/Neoplan81992.jpg) and the M.A.N SG-310 articulated bus that were used for testing? And why were neither of them selected by the MTA to buy more of either of those buses?
The MTA M*A*N SG-310 Articulated became The Bee Line Systems #661. I believe www.transitalk.org has a photo of the M*A*N in both MTA and Bee Line Schemes.
As for the Neoplan, its wareabouts are unknown. Probably went back to Neoplan.
What depot did the Neoplan run out of when it was being tested? Bus 81992?
And on this subject - what was #81993? I kow 81994 was a D4000 that ran out of Yukon during testing on express service.
The Neoplan (and MAN) spent most of the time on SI express routes. I vaguely remember the Neoplan AN460 operating on the M15 as well. During the 80's NYCTA test many different buses... Hino, Renault, Neoplan 40 & 60 footer, MAN 60 footer and Orion I 40 footer.
NYCDOT companies had interesting fleets as well. To name some... Queens Transit had loads of new GMDD fishbowls and who could ever forget the Grumman 870's. Liberty Lines: In addition to many suburban fishbowls they had MC-8 and MC-9's. Anyone remember those early Flxible METRO's that Green Bus Lines and Queens Transit tested?
Wayne
When I was in High School(back in 84/85),I managed to get GBL's Flxible Metro on the Q11 about 4 times.They were much nicer than MSBA's Metro's.Also if I remember correctly the interior was set to the specs and coloring of the TA Grummans.
Yes - you're right they were like TA Grummans. I preferred MSBA's METRO because they had the DD 8V-71N while those METRO's that were tested by QT and GBL had DD 6V-92TA engines.
Wayne
What happened to the Metro's that GBL & Queens transit had? I remember seeing Flxible Metros on Jamaica Bus lines just 2 years ago. Were they scrapped or were they sold to another bus operator?
Those buses at Jamaica Buses were actually the Grumman Flxible 870. All of the NYCDOT privates in Queens had them. They were actually purchased as an add-on to the NYCTA's huge order in 1980. Sometime around 1983/4 Green Bus Lines rec'd a few second-hand Grumman 870 from Texas - I want to say it was Houston, but I'm not sure. These second-hand buses were amongst the earliest 870 that had the circular escape hatches. A couple of years later both Green and Queens Transit rec'd the Flxible METRO buses. I think they both had two of them. Queens Transit had #860-861 and I think Green's were #590-591. They didn't stick around very long and I'm guessing they went back to Flxible and eventually sold off.
Wayne
I last saw that bus parked outside the 1996 APTA Expo in New Orleans; it was being offered for sale by Neoplan for $175,000. It still had the blue stripe and NYCT destination readings, but the name "New York City Transit Authority" and the M-logo were gone.
NYCT actually wanted to buy 400 artics from Neoplan (which, at the time, was the ONLY artic manufacturer qualified under the "buy-American" law). That move was quickly squashed under pressure from the City Council - particularly Thomas Duane - because Neoplan is based in Lamar, Colorado, whose residents had voted FOR Colorado's controversial "gay-ban" law.
Yeah, cool pic!
I also notice Flxible New Look bus #7753 with BATWINGS! Also, old shots of #3921 on the Q5A and #8041 and #8066 from Jamaica Depot. Why does it say "Q17 Express Bus Route" for bus #8066? Weird!
gotham bus is indeed right about 81992 which ran exclusively on the s61 and always had the same operator. it then spent a short time on the m15. 81993 was a suburban neoplan also tested at yukon on the express routes. in the 80s two eagles were also tested there but transit let them fly away over the dump.
In this week's press release on the WMATA website:
February 1-28, 2003, 30th Anniversary of Metrobus, when Bus Services of the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority will sponsor various activities to mark this milestone in Metrobus' history.
Today, another training bus with 5 students went past my location. This time I stopped it and spoke to the superintendent training them. He told me NYCT is very short of workers (buses and trains) right now and are currently hiring. I spoke to him about the so-called freeze and he told me that was a mistake and there is no way they can have a freeze when they are in dire need of bus operators. So for all you guys who are on the list, yes it is moving right now. I don't know if the same can be said for administrative jobs, but the unionized blue collar positions are currently in the hiring mode.
BIG AL
The following titles are still available, or (will be) open for filing:
MaBSTOA Bus Operator - No Exam Required - Now
MaBSTOA Cleaner/Helper - Exam #2204 - Filing ends today.
NYCTA Transit Electrical Maintainer - Exam #2057 - Now through 12/24
NYCTA Maintainer/Helper (B) - Exam #2076 - 12/04 through 12/24
NYCTA Power Cable Maintainer - Exam #2063 - 12/04 through 12/24
NYCTA Telephone Maintainer - Exam #2060 - 12/04 through 12/24
MaBSTOA Stock Worker - Exam #2207 - 12/04 through 12/24
NYCTA Light Maintainer (Electrician) - Exam #2067 - 2/05 through 3/25
NYCTA Car Inspector - Exam #2066 - 3/05 through 4/22
NYCTA Bus Maintainer (B) - Exam #2058 - 4/04 through 4/22
NYCTA Structure Maintainer (A Carpenter) - Exam 2073 - 4/2 through 4/22
NYCTA Structure Maintainer (D Sheetmetal) - Exam #2074 - 4/2 through 4/22
NYCTA Train Operator - Exam #2085 - 5/07 through 5/27
Employment and examination information updates and Notice of Exam filing downloads are available at the MTA website http://www.mta.org.
whenever there has been a freeze on hiring in our great city , the mta never has a freeze. they always hire. even in the 70`s when cops were layed off and given the choice to drive the bus they were still hiring then too.
AMybe the MTA's plan is to offer the opurtinity for workers that will probably be laid off such as token booth clerks a chance ar filling other positions.
Jobs are ussually kept empty befor service cuts
There is no chance what-so-ever that token booth clerks or anyone else for that matter will be laid off. The worst case scenario would be for them to be automatically forced to take another position with the cuts, but even that is very unlikely.
BIG AL
Sorry, I should've posted this a month ago, when I actually witnessed it, but I totally forgot.
Long story short, I was riding a QV Surburban RTS on the Q31 one day, and the laminated map-display that hangs behind the driver's seat had a Brooklyn bus map in it instead of a Queens bus map. Just an interesting observation.
Rode an Ex-QV bus on the M2 today: 3965. Also heard that 3906 has made its way over to MHV as well. A friend of mine saw it on the M5 Limited on 6th Ave this afternoon.
#3965 M2
#3906 M5
3965 appeared at yukon in march of 1998 when the fare was rolled back and it was converted to a coach. it then went to ulmer park. i believe it has been instorage a few years.
Most likely, that bus was initially assigned to Ulmer Park.
If he saw that, most of them did come from Ulmer Park since they started out at Yukon in 1996, transferred from there to Ulmer Park, Queens Village and West Side/MJQ in 1998 or 1999 with the arrival of Yukon's MCI's [9250-low 9290's]. Then all of the UP RTS suburbans in the 9200's [all the ones they had up to 9295] went to QV and MJQ with the arrivals of their MCI's.
Actually, most of the 9200's went to Jamaica depot first, then made their way to Q.V.
BIG AL
So I assume the 9200's didn't stay at JAM too long and I doubt they did local runs or else I would of saw a few. So 9342-9349 was always at Jamaica as well or no?
You must be new in the neighborhood. 9345-9349 are Jamaica depot originals. 9342-9344 never worked out of Jamaica. 9250 - 9254 approx. flip flopped between Jamaica and QV a couple of times after they first arrived from UP. 9255 and 9256 IIRC went straight to QV from UP but wound up at Jamaica when the rest of the 9200's started coming in from UP. A majority of the 9200's stay was actually at Jamaica depot. Soon the rest, 9255-9269, 9278-9281, 9285 and even 9291 made their way to Jamaica depot as well, where they all stayed put for well over a year. They saw quite a bit of local service, mostly on the Q17 and Q42. During the later months they were at the depot, they started to see service on the Q3 and Q77 and finally the Merrick Blvd corridor routes before the 9250 and about half the 9260 series were shipped over to QV with the arrival of the MCI's.
BIG AL
just to clarify,yukon received 1997 nova suburbans 9250-9284. the rest went to ulmer park except for 9345-9349. the suburbans arrived in january 1997 and left for ulmer park when the mci buses arrived in the fall of 1998.
Actually, I did not know too much about the RTS suburban fleet[except for 9345-9349) in Jamaica. Sorry if I annoyed you but thanks for the info anyway "Big Al".
Nobody annoys me on this board except for one person who, thank God, doesn't post any more.
BIG AL
I was just in Kansas City this past weekend, and completely by accident drove past a transit authority bus lot. It was on 19th Street just west of The Paseo, east of downtown. Sitting in with all the RTS buses was a pretty sad-looking GM "Old Look" bus. I couldn't get a number off of it, I was going too fast. Does anyone know anything about this bus - when it was built, why it's still around?
Frank Hicks
This a mailing i recieved in the mail :
Dated Nov 15
Mayor Michael Bloomberg
City Hall
New York,New York 10007
Dear Mayor Bloomberg:
As elected officials in Bronx County we are writing to you to urge your immediate attention to an issue of paramount importance to our constituents.
New York Bus Service which provides express bus service between Co-op City , Parkchester, Pelham Bay ,City Island ,Throggs Neck , and Morris Park has served a " WARN " notice upon the city that it will cease operations effective midnight on Sunday , January 12, 2003.
As you are aware this service which has provided access to Manhattan over the last 33 years is depended upon by thousands of our constituents daily . People who choose to pay more to ride into the city in a clean , sfe coach are the very backbone of the New York City economy. Without this service people will choose to seek employment elsewhere, such as Westchester or worse yet , will use their personal cars to travel into the city. While we are trying to rebuild the city and protect its economic base , the absence of Express Bus Service will not only hinder growth in the workforce , but will undermine our economic base.
We urge you to immediatly designate a hight ranking official within your administration to sit down and talk with New York Bus Service officials and avoid this crisis . we understand the issues involved may not cost the city any immediate tax dollars and will not in itself result in a fare increase.
As Representatives of a viable taxpaying community , we urge your immediate attention to this matter .
Respectfully yours ,
Guy J. Velella , Stephan Kaufman , Madeline Provenzano
Senator , Assemblyman , Councilwoman
That "letter to the mayor" is really meant to be seen by the voters, who (it is hoped) will remember it next Election Day.
The ONLY issue is whether the City should fund pensions for employees of municipal contractors. My own opinion is "NO" - pension contributions are a basic cost of doing business, which any reputable contractor would factor into the contract price prior to bidding. The "complications" are that (1) this particular contractor has only one client, the city, and (2) there is no bidding.
If the city opens this can of worms every contractor is going to want some.
A private contractor is ust that a private contractor
If the bus drivers at the franchise operators wanted a government job they should have taken the MTA bus drivers exam.
this bus sits in a lot on richmond terrace right beneath the bayonne bridge. its in partial green livery, no name on bus. it can be seen while riding the s40 bus.
I have the following so far, anyone have any corrections, additional splits, or additions they want to make? Send me an e-mail and I will put them in.
On route listings, letters in abbreviations are for divisons the route is split between. For example, 32 (B, S) means that the 32 is split between Western, Bladensburg and Southern. An asterisk (*) next to the route indicates which depot most buses come from. For example, 32* (B, S) means that the 32 has most buses from Western with fewer from Bladesnburg and Southern.
Western (W)
Routes: 30, 32* (B/S), 34* (B/S), 35* (S), 36* (B/S), 42* (B), 98, D2, D5, E2, E3, E4, E6, H5, H7, L1, L2, L4, M4, N2, N3, N4, N6, N7, N8
Montgomery (M)
Routes: B11, C2, C4, C7, C8, C9, J1, J2, J3, J4, J5, J8, J9, K6* (N), L7, L8, Q2, T2, Y7, Y8, Y9, Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4, Z5, Z7, Z8, Z9, Z11, Z13, Z17, Z19, Z29
Northern (N)
Routes: 52, 53, 54, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 70, 71, K2, K6 (M), S1, S2, S4
Bladensburg (B): 32 (W), 34 (W), 36 (W), 42 (W), 80, 90, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, A9, A42, A46, A48, B2, B8, B9, D1, D3, D4, D6, D8, G8, H1, H2, H3, H4, H6, H8, H9, U2, U4, U5, U6, U8, X1, X2, X3, X6, X8
Arlington (A)
Routes: 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F, 1Z, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2G, 2T, 2W, 3A, 2B, 2E, 2T, 4A, 4B, 4E, 4H, 4S, 7A, 12C, 12D, 12E, 12F, 12L, 12M, 12R, 12S, 15K 15L, 16B, 16C, 16E, 20F, 20W, 20X, 20Y, 22A, 22B, 22C, 22F, 24M, 24P, 24T, 25A, 25B, 25F, 25G, 25J, 25P, 28T
To be filled in: Four Mile Run, Landover, Royal, Southern
I have the 5A and B in Southern right now. I am a little skeptical of what I have down for Bladesnburg right now and am unsure as to what might be Bladensburg vs. Southern.
Got some more additions under Montgomery and Western today.
Hope to hear from all of you!
THINK SNOW
Very nice!
When the entire roster is complete, can I have a copy in my e-mail? Would love to see what the finishing product looks like...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
We are going to put it on a website, probably mine (since as far as I know, I am the only one currently with webspace). I also plan on maintaining it as regularly as possible.
Here's Landover's route assignment:
A12,15,B21,22,23,24,25,27,29,30,C18,21,22,25,26,28,29,F1,2,4,6,8,12,13,14,H11,12,J11,12,13,14,15,K11,12,13,P12,R12,T16,17,18,V11,12,14,15:84,85,87,88,89,89M
My email is down currently, so just wanted to post something quickly to help out:
Concerning the 5A/B, those have mainly been coming out of Four Mile Run. Maybe they're split? Regularly, I'll see a Four Mile Run Orion V or Orion VI on those routes with the occasional Flx Metro D or E thrown in. When I took my excusion on the 5B a couple of months ago, we had Orion V 4327, which is Four Mile.
In the Arlington Division, after 3A shows 2B and 2E, but I believe those should be 3B and 3E as the 2B is listed right after the 1's.
Bladensburg should include R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, 81, 82, 83. I believe a couple of the 90 routes come out of there, too, but not sure.
Hope this helps!!
The 86 also runs out of Bladensburg and the 97 does as well. The 96 runs out of Northern, which is odd since the are the same route, the 97 only runs during rush hour to Union Station.
Who does one call to report dangerous, potentially fatal, operating practices?
Memo to self:
8076
Run 2_1
If we're talking NYC Transit here:
NYCT Bus Customer Service Center
1-888-NYCT-BUS
David
Thanks Dave!
I saw RTS 911x something an an Orion in the 100s (the Orion was an express bus) operating "not in service" up Middle Neck Rd in Great Neck this morning. There were some people on board.
Was definately weird to see an NYCT bus operating in Great Neck. Wish I had my camera!!
Also I was by the LI Bus depot recently and saw 587 and another 500 Orion sitting on Commercial ave in front of the depot. I guess they still have some 500s in service, havent seen em around here though.
Maybe they do JFK flyer runs?
Maybe its a sign of you know what.....But that's strange what is a 911x doing in Queens-Nassau in the first place? Now that's weird 2 NYCT buses with people[it could have been MTA employees] in Nassau, yeah I wish you did have a camera to take a pic.
This may be just a guess but the buses may have been used for transit employees being transported to the funeral of the employee who died. There was a funeral I think in New Hyde Park.
If you think that's weird,when I went to Westchester County last Thursday,while riding on the 1W to White Plains,I saw a NYCT RTS as the bus cruised along Tarrytown Rd or whatever that street is it goes along after it turns off Broadway.I couldn't make out the number nor the depot emblem but I think I saw that it was either from QV or from 126th St. Depot.And the last time I went to WP on the 1W,on Broadway while waiting for a red light to clear,I saw not one but 2 RTS's make a right turn from the opposite direction.That was several month's ago.
I didn't know that MTA buses were allowed into Westchester.I wonder why they were there the first time around as well as last Thursday. There must be a really good reason.Anyone got any possible ideas?
862-1W
770-12
481-16
479-14
536-5
7XX-8
----
I didn't know that MTA buses were allowed into Westchester
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http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=13530
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=29604
I told you so
----
I didn't know that MTA buses were allowed into Westchester
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http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=13530
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=29604
I told you so
and also
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=18210
[I didn't know that MTA buses were allowed into Westchester.I wonder why they were there the first time around as well as last Thursday.]
Last IU heard, Westchester was still part of the 12-county MTA District, so the buses have every right to be there. The real question is whether they had a REASON to be there.
That's okay - I once saw a TA RTS #8000-something or other on Allwood Rd in Clifton, NJ. Back around 1998 or 99 or so.
The buses are driven to a plant off Central Avenue (which is right off route 9-Broadway)in Tarrytown where the buses are being re-powered (by a non-union shop!!).
Critics can't understand why, despite Roger Tousant knowing about this, it continues. One or more buses are dropped off (I've seen 3-4 together) and completed buses are taken back to the NYCT depot, wherever it came from.
For repowering? Why would they repower '96-'99 Nova RTS's? Cause the 3 buses that I've seen on my 2 trips on the 1W to White Plains have been those types,not the '90 and '91 RTS's.
twu gave up that fight long ago and you know mike quill is rolling over in his grave.
These Trips were For The Memorial Service Of The Trackworker that died last week.
Is there such a thing as a One Door Low Floor Surburban? If they are who has them?
The only transit agency that I'm aware of that has a 40-ft low floor single door bus is Gwinett County (Ga.), which are NABI CNGs. Many transit systems have 30-ft low floor buses, the most common being the New Flyer D30LF.
Thanks, just wondering. I have never seen a one door low floor transit bus. I have never seen any mention of them in the bus magazines either.
[The only transit agency that I'm aware of that has a 40-ft low floor single door bus is Gwinett County (Ga.)]
I'm not 100% sure of this, but believe the low floor Gilligs used by Hertz and Avis only have one door (granted, the door is in the center rather than up front).
If Transport of Rockland ever gets low floor buses, you can bet they will only have one door!
For those of you who are familiar with the B41[of course I am], they moved the bus stop at Church Av toward Downtown Brooklyn across the street, which makes more sense IMO. Now, buses won't have to back up traffic like before BUT they put a NO STANDING ANYTIME sign at the old location so I'm assuming that it might be extra space for 41's to load/discharge passengers.
you mean its now in front of garfields cafeteria?
Yeah, its no longer in front of Citibank but there's extra space, a NO STANDING ANYTIME sign at the old location of the stop so it MIGHT be extra bus space.
No...if the location is not designated for a bus, it's not for extra buses. BUT it most LIKELY is a part of the 'traffic calming' plans for Flatbush Avenue. Traffic snarls will be eased at that location by freeing up that corner to aid with the flow during rush hour.
Artics, Artics anyone????
There's a new red light camera going up on Staten Island.
It is a REAL ONE.
Corner of Hyland Blvd and Tysens Lane, shooting at Hylan Blvd going Northbound.
Bus Routes affected: S57,S78,S79
X1,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X24.
GOOD, drivers (bus and car alike)need to stop running red lights.
Peace,
ANDEE
That's true, but these municipalities also need to stop their revenue generating at the expense of motorists. They say it's to make things safer and that an excellent reason, but I don't believe safety is truly the motivation here. I'd bet that profits are first and safety is a distant second. Also - The NYPD - including the brownies (I know they no longer wear brown - but I like to piss them off) need to set a good example by consistently obeying traffic lights (obviously when they're not responding to an emergency) and other traffic regulations as well.
Wayne
at the corner of travis and victory the rule seems to be three cars may proceed across the intersection once the light is solid red. we need more red light cameras because of all these a--hole drivers.
Here in DC, there is a new device going up near Galludet University that looks exactly like the red light camera boxes, but this one will track your speed. Right now, unmarked DC police cars sit at random locations that will take a picture of your car if you go by at either 5 or 10MPH over the speed limit, I forgot what they said. This new camera is supposed to be the first in the nation. Eventually, they are to put cameras in the green stoplights that will keep track of speeders flying through the intersection.
I'm of two minds on this whole thing. Yes, I do agree this is a big time money making thing going on, but to hear how many people are getting tickets by both the speed cameras and red light cameras where people know those things are sitting, is incredible. There are two cameras I pass on my way to work, but usually the green lights are long enough to get the line of traffic that I'm in through. Only once did the light turn yellow and there was no way I could stop as I was doing the posted speed limit of 45 and was about 5 feet away from the line, but I made it through before the red light came on. If it came down to jamming my brakes and either me wiping out or getting rear ended, or just going through the light, I'm going through.
i agree you may go if it means being rear ended but out here in staten island they are flouting the law with impunity. bloomberg could wipe out his whole deficit with more traffic police. dont get me started on those that fail to signal or dont put headlights on in the rain. id say 99 percent of b/o do obey the laws.
I agree with you 100%. When it was raining here a couple of weeks ago, nothing frustrated me more than to barely be able to see the other car in front of me because they didn't have their lights on.
I also agree that these cameras could really get some of the gov'ts. out of their predicaments.
Minor traffic infractions should not be ticketed. It is almost ipossible to drive to the letter of the aw in NYC.
But there are plenty of divers that run red light constently, never stop at a stop sign. have illegal covers on licence plates.
A few hundred extra milliopn can be made short term. I hope this will teach the marginal offender to think twice about making a U-turn in a busy street
Hylan & Tysens is one of the worst intersections on S.I. The local civic groups in New Dorp and Oakwood have been trying to get left-turn signals installed there for years. But what do we get - red light cameras. Thank you DOT - for nothing!
I agree that some police officers never gollow any trafic laws whether on duty or not
With that said traffic laws need to be enforced. In sheepshead Bay it seems that no one follows any traffic laws.
Constent red light running. If they think they can make it they go for it. On top of that I see plenty of illegal U-Turns on very busy streets. This is very dangerouse
Would like to see even more red light camera's
In over 10 years of driving have never recieved a traffic ticket.
Why ?
I try to follow the law for the most part. In this city especially in the bouroughs major infractions are rampant and quite frankely cost lives. It is time these brazen offenders pay thier fair share. they drive up the cost of car insurance with thier reckless driving
If you saw the 10pm news last night on Ch 5, they showed a whole list of red light camreas in the 5 boroughs so people know where they are so they don't speed and run red lights.
According to the SI Advance, CB 3 gave the approval to go ahead and build the 3rd SI Bus Depot in Chrleston. To find out more, check out the SI Advance on www.silive.com
This week six Bee Line Flxibles arrived at Liberty Lines Express facility. They are currently being stored there due to cuts in Bee Lines service. Off the top of my head i remember one of the buses being numbered "796". None of them were the Cummins engine buses.
Peace,
Kevin
Oh, NO.....how old are these Flxes? They are the heart of BeeLine!
-F.
I sure hope not. They're 1990 MERTO-B. Most have a Detroit Diesel/Voith combo and a few have Cummins L-10/Voith.
Wayne
Mmmm...I love that combo.
The acutal numbers are 115 Detroit's (760 to 874)and 5 Cummins (875 to 879)
The buses are being stored there NOT BECAUSE OF SERVICE CUTS!! They are being stored there because as Liberty Lines Transit (LLT) just received 10 more Neoplan artics, are expecting 14 more 30-foot Orion V's, and there just isn't enought room to park all the buses. Both facilities are practically packed now.
These Flixible's are 1990's. There are currently 120 of them. They are in good shape. LLT, under the direct order of Westchester County DOT took them out of service and are just storing them for now (not retiring them)at the LLE facility. (I'm sure that WCDOT is paying rent to LLE for the space as the express property and maintenance facility belong to the owners of LLE.
Do you think that Westchester would press these back into service if the ridership rises whenever (or if-ever) MetroCard is installed in Westchester? Could this be the great plan to prepare for an increase in ridership that NYC never thought of? WE shasll see!
The buses are being stored there NOT BECAUSE OF SERVICE CUTS!! They are being stored there because as Liberty Lines Transit (LLT) just received 10 more Neoplan artics, are expecting 14 more 30-foot Orion V's, and there just isn't enought room to park all the buses. Both facilities are practically packed now.
I kinda figured that out for myself (I know about the new buses) but just reported what my dispatcher told me. In any event there will eventually be service cuts. I just received a letter from the union today that the DOT will discontinue funding weekend service at LLE as of January 1st 2003. This will force a general pick between LLE and LLT and the bottom 15 drivers are likely to get cut. What a nice thing for the DOT to do right before the holidays.
It may work out to be Okay. Right now LLT is hiring drivers, and were looking to start 3 more classes @ 5 new employees per class. But that will probably be cancelld now and any potential layoffs could be absdorbed.
"DOT will discontinue funding weekend service at LLE as of January 1st 2003"
Do this mean no more weekend express bus service into Manhattan? How Stupid!
NYCDOT is cuttinng ALL WEEKEND express bus service, that it operates via the Privates, effective 01/01/03. The Private carriers have been notified of this and must make arrangements for new schedules and driver picks by this date or eat the cost of the unauthorized service. And since most of them operate Sunday service on major holidays, I guess the holidays will now have NO EXPRESS SERVICE. So, no matter how good the weekend ridership is on a particular route (like Co-op City, Riverdale (BxM-1), Bayside (QM-2), they will cut ALL weekend express service. Why not leave the routes with decent ridership alone and cut out the other dead wood (like Sedgwick Ave BxM-3, or Jewel Ave QM-4, or Grand Concourse BxM-4). Some of the late-night ridership on the express routes is worse than the weekend ridership. So cut the service earlier on weeknights. We understand that the budget woes provide for cuts, cuts, cuts to reduce costs. But let's not affect perfectly good ridership. How many of these weekend passengers spend their money in Manhattan (sales tax, merchant support, the theatre, restrauants, communuity events, street fairs, etc.) How many more autos will be on the road? Will a passenger take the subway (maybe that's NYC's wish). Maybe take a taxi or private car (not likely).
The Riverdale passengers (BXM1 & BXM2) are gonna raise hell. Sometimes we have two buses go down together on Saturday and Sunday because the ridership is so heavy. Ridership on the BXM3 has picked up a lot lately too. I usually carry a good 30-40 people Saturday on my 830am and 230pm southbound trips. I knew this was gonna happen because the DOT was was monitoring our lines a few weeks ago, taking passenger counts at the last southbound pick up on all the lines.
Wow I never knew the BXM1 and BXM2 is so busy! I bet there's standees as well.
The QM2 and QM1A riders should act too! It's not fair since ridership on those lines are pretty demanding. I should see the QM4 go since Peak Ridership is no higher then 25 but Midday Service is high so keep those.
>>>I should see the QM4 go since Peak Ridership is no higher then 25 but Midday Service is high so keep those.
Why cut peak runs and keep all midday runs when peak hours are among the times with the most ridership? What kind of a commuter express bus line runs more service during the midday hours than peak? How is is that more people use an express line at noontime than during the height of rush hour??? I find that idea very funny, unless it's actually true for some routes (correct me if I am wrong)...but if anything, shouldn't there be less midday service to make those riders use the remaining buses or have them wait until the beginning of rush hour for another bus...or eliminate midday runs? idk...any comments welcome.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
WHEW!!! That's good news. I hope they stay a little loner. Don't they have some 1993 Metros as well?
-F.
There are no 1993 models. All 120 of them are 1990 models. The Westchester County DOT is PLANNING to replace 50 of them in the next two calendar years, or so I hear. For 1990's they are pretty clean, run pretty well and have a wonderful climate control.
Wow...that's good to hear. I hope they keep their word on waiting 2 years to replace; the most local spot to catch a Flx Metro here said they would keep their 1986-87 models through 2003 or 2004 but took them out of regular service at the end of this past summer and ran them as trippers through the football season, only to retire them afterwards. Liars!
These Flixible's are 1990's. There are currently 120 of them. They are in good shape. LLT, under the direct order of Westchester County DOT took them out of service and are just storing them for now (not retiring them)at the LLE facility. (I'm sure that WCDOT is paying rent to LLE for the space as the express property and maintenance facility belong to the owners of LLE.
Also, the fact that the Flxibles are not wheelchair accessible probably had something to do with this decision as well.
As for returning to active service, I think a lot will have to do with whether or not Westchester plans to follow through on all of the cuts they have proposed, though I have a feeling the cuts won't be as severe as originally proposed.
Hold the phone...I thought that ADA standardized lifts on all buses effective in 1990? So what happened with these buses?
-F.
Er...new 1990 (and later) buses, that is.
-F.
A few interesting MBTA bus tidbits, courtesy of NE Transit’s MBTA bus roster page (http://members.aol.com/rtspcc/roster/sv_rost1.html):
- New Flyer is the apparent low bidder on the order of 140 40-foot and 35 35-foot diesel low-floor buses, to be delivered in 2004. These buses will replace the 1989 TMC RTS buses.
- MCI will loan a commuter cruiser to the MBTA this month for testing on the Mass. Pike and I-93 express routes.
- The Neoplan trackless trolleys on order will NOT be equipped with left-hand doors (apparently no one in MBTA management has ever ridden a diesel bus inbound to the Harvard Square Tunnel, where passengers are forced to disembark next to a soot-covered wall).
- The mysterious H.R. Ross/Volvo magnetic induction battery buses are actually being built with Nova LFS shells … of course, it appears that the MBTA is getting fed up with the Ross firm and might repossess the incomplete shells.
So, by 2005 or so, the MBTA bus fleet will look like this:
400 1994-96 TMC/Nova RTS T80-206’s
17 1999-2001 New Flyer C40LF’s
299 2003-04 NABI 40LFW’s
44 Neoplan CNG articulated buses
32 Neoplan dual-mode articulated buses
140 New Flyer D40LF’s
35 New Flyer D35LF’s
And perhaps some MCI cruisers.
Quite different (and far more interesting) than today’s 98% RTS fleet.
Jim D.
He was arrested for dealing drugs as he was dispatching buses in Kew Gardens.
Click Here For The Classic Details!
Hey, everyone needs a hobby. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
he really looks sinister in that photo. what a dope(dealer).
And he'll have 25 years in jail to work on it!
What an asshole! That's a shame and it makes Green Bus Lines and its dispatchers look real bad. Come on, he's a 23 year veteran, he was financially secure[I believe], totally senseless and you know his job is gone and he should get jailed.
Dig deeper, and at other Queens/Brooklyn privates. You'll find much more!!
Somehow I have a feeling it's the same way with TA Surface.
I used to see that superviser alot where I live. He's the superviser for the Q10 and be there almost everyday at the Kew Gardens End of the Q10(And I live not too far from the last stop of the Q10)
How is service affected on the Bx7 and 20 routes when the Bway Bridge is up?
How will the new configuration of MTA Bus affect MaBSTOA employees?
That's one of many mysteries yet to be solved. We'll know when it's announced.
David
While railfanning on MetroRail this afternoon, I made the following observations.
The following buses are all at Royal:
2110 on 10B
2113 on 25B
2103
Also, this morning, I saw 2210 on the 32 (Western). And finally, I saw C40LF 2417 on Massachussetts at 34th Street (in front of the observatory). It was not in service but I do not know where it was going. A Bladensburg 30 run perhaps?
I finally got out for a bit today and took the 24P over to Pentagon City Mall. Rode Flx Metro D 9816 on the way over, which is a Four Mile Run bus and thus did not have the new fareboxes like they're supposed to on that route. On the way home, had Orion V 4245 which did have the farebox, but did not need it since I had a transfer. There were minor problems with the dollar bill slot, but that eventually got fixed. There is a box to the left of the new farebox facing the driver that had some kind of readout, too, but I didn't really get enough of a look at it to see what it really did.
On the way home, saw Flx Metro B 9317 broken down with a service truck behind it on Columbia Pike past the Navy Annex. Most likely a 16 route, so it looks like Four Mile Run is inheriting Bladensburg Flxibles too. The 16 lines really could use some artics, especially on the longer routes like the 16B that goes all the way into Annandale. Some buses were SRO leaving the Pentagon.
Going past the Arlington Division, saw several 30' Flxs and Orions. I could see 5151, 5152, 5155 and 5156, along with 3910 and 3911. There was an abnormal amount of buses sitting in that lot at 3:30 PM. Usually, its deserted at that time since Rush hour has started.
Nothing else out of the ordinary in regards to odd buses on different routes, just a lot of them passed by in the 10 minutes I was on Army Navy Drive waiting to come home tonight.
Happy Thanksgiving to all posters and their families. May it be joyous and safe.
Troy
Thank You, and the same to all
Same to you & have a safe & Happy Thanksgiving to all of the bustalkers. Have fun indulging yourselves with turkey, food and dessert :-D.
What about SubTalkers??? Just Kidding, Happy Thanksgiving to all!
-AcelaExpress2005
HAPPY TURKEY DAY TO ALL OF YOU GUYS...friends, foes, chillun, amigos, enemigos, everybody...
Happy Thanksgiving...(gobble gobble)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
I want to wish everyone a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving from me also to you guys
Happy Thankgiving to everyone. Unfortunately this will be the last one I will have before I leave NYC. I have joined the NAVY, and will be leaving in 2003. However, I will not forget bustalk,and hopefully buy my own computer when I over there.
I've very quiet this month, there isn't too much to say, I will be gone for 4 years. I will probably be done with the NAVY when I turn 24 years old. So I'll be here in Fresh Pond territory for only 2 more months. I really, really hope I can get to see the fleet changes before I leave. I will laugh if I see no changes after 4 years.
I will miss everyone here when its time for me to leave.
best wishes to all posters and to the ridgewood bus buff. you should see some new buses arrive before you go and best of luck in the navy. everyone drive safely today as we know lots of others wont.
Maybe when you come back, the B13 will be extended to Gateway Ctr and have better headways. Who knows?? 24 hour service???
Happy sailing. When you return home and check out FP buses, may all 1985's and 1987's be gone!
Thank you Bill. :)
In a few months, I will be spending my time in Pensicola, Florida. I have chosen aviation electronics, electrical, & installation as my course in the Navy. I hope to take pictures and see the types of buses they have where I'm going.
Oh, and here's the shocking thing about this, the Navy recruiting office is located right around the corner of Fresh Pond Depot! Its located above the Greenpoint Savings bank.
Happy Thanksgiving to all Bustalkers and their families. I'm having my turkey up here in heavy RTS territory (Boston). Glad to see from a recent post that replacements for the older RTS's will be coming soon. Evidnetly, the MBTA has made a pledge to have only air conditioned buses by the time of the Democratic Convention.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a Good TURKEY!!
i rode for the first time 7301 and 7701 (2001 35' gillig phantoms) to and from the comcast center for the terps b-ball game. all i have to say is that those buses are awesome. they dont have a bumpy ride, the acceleration is very good, plus they keep these buses awfully clean. i dont remember exactly what sign manufacturer they use but its the same LED displays that Ride-On have. nice buses overall.
I saw the minibuses they have and to my surprise they are not made by "Turtle Top" (there is actually a bus manufacturer by that name), get it. They are made by Startrans.
Shuttle did have several Turtle Tops back in the early 90's and retired them when the Startrans arrived. All the drivers clean their own buses. On Saturdays, all rookie drivers for that semester wash the buses. You have to choose two Saturdays to do it. The time I did, it was so cold, we pulled them into the bays one at a time and had the mechanics back out and pull in the buses. It was great when I wasn't a rookie and I had a bus coming off a charter that I needed later for another run and the rooks washed my bus and I then took it out to grab a bite to eat.
Last night I attended a concert featuring the band "The Other One's" at Madision Square Garden. Upon exiting the Garden after the show I spotted an unusual bus across the street. The bus belonged to a religious sect called the "12 Tribes" who were handing out newsletters to the concert goers. I didn't get a chance to check out the bus up close since the people I went to the concert with weren't into buses. The cover of the newsletter has a picture of the bus and can be seen on the homepage of the group's website. The URL is http//www.twelvetribes.com/ I have a copy of the newsletter and looked through it to see if the bus was identified in anyway. The only mention of the bus is a description of how the top half of the bus was grafted onto the bottom half. Can anyone identify it?
Flxible, unfortunately I didn't see the Flxible bus carrying the concert goers you met in Virginia. The concert was good. Typical "Dead" type show with mass quantities of drugs being consumed and people dancing all over the place.
Yeah! I have seen that bus too!
At least I think I've seen because I saw a bus that looks just like it a few years back in the Union Square area - only it was read.
Was this bus mostly red in color?
Yes, the color scheme was dark burgundy and cream. Very sharp looking.
Well gang, another year is passing by and the holidays are here again. With tall the hustle and bustle of working and taking care of our families, let's take a moment to wish (or pray) for a better world. AND I WISH ALL OF YOU A HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
Happy Thanksgiving From The TransiTALK Family
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Same to you, Trevor. You're the man!
Chuck Greene
Here's the website for it!
http://beelinebus.westchestergov.com/proposed_bee_line_bus_service_reduction.htm
OUCH!! All that, on top of a fare increase ($1.60 local, $0.40 transfer, $6.00 for BxM4C).
Why hasn't this been in the newspapers? Why is nobody screaming bloody murder? Where are the politicians? Or do they represent only the BMW/Porche/Rolls crowd?
Why isn't The Straphangers Campaign holding its usual "I'll-say-what-I-want-don't-bother-me-with-facts-you-can't-correct-us-because-we're-the-advocacy-group" press conferences to decry the new fares ($1.80 local, $0.50 transfer, for $7.00 BxM4C)? Or is NYCT the only adversary that yields them a profit?
This has been in the news, I posted on this last week.
Peace,
ANDEE
Sadly, it seems suburban buses are always neglected by Straphangers.org. They only seem to focus on NYCT bus and subway riders.
(Sadly, it seems suburban buses are always neglected by Straphangers.org. They only seem to focus on NYCT bus and subway
riders.)
A lot of suburban bus riders are city residents. The suburbs zone out anything other than one-family homes, to keep out moderate income people who require services and keep taxes down. Then they don't have any workers for their low wage jobs. So a soaring number of city residents ride out.
Such as the case on the N20/21. Alot of city residents reverse commute, the N20/21 is packed out to Nassau in the AM rush, and packed going into Queens in the PM.
In Westchester I assume it is similar. Cutting service means people will be out of a job, considering most of these wealthy employers do as little as possible to transport these people.
DAMN!!! That's a lot of service cuts! The one's I dont like are cutting the 1T from Tarrytown,the reduction in route 12 service and combining 2 trips to form a 10:48 AM trip from White Plains on the 15.Oh yeah,also making 61 service to the Bronx peak direction only.
But I'm mainly concerned with the 12 and 15 routes.If it goes through,it'll be just about impossible for me to get to Jefferson Valley Mall from the city.I'd like to be able to get there SOMEHOW!!
[If it goes through,it'll be just about impossible for me to get to Jefferson Valley Mall from the city.I'd like to be able to get there SOMEHOW!!]
1. Try Metro-North (Hudson Line) to Peekskill, then Bee-Line #16. It's more expensive, but a whole lot faster than that #12 will ever be.
2. Why torture yourself going all that way? Aren't there any good malls that are easier to reach from the city?
Oh yeah there's a bunch but I like to go to every mall possible that is within my reach and that I can get there by bus from the city.I love going to malls,besides it gives me something to do than hang around at home everyday.And there's no way I'm taking Metro-North.
Yeah it's more expensive which is one reason why I won't do it and another is that the 16 doesn't go to the Peekskill RR Station anymore except for 2 or 3 trips in the afternoon after 3PM and I'm not gonna be up there THAT late in the day,uh uh. If I did go,I'd defiantely have to pay for a taxi to get me to the Hudson Valley Medical Center which is now the official terminal of the 16 on like before where it went there 1st before ending at the train station.This change started last Monday because of the extention from Jefferson Valley Mall to Somers Commons.
Damn! NO SATURDAY 61 SERVICE IN THE BRONX????? So what, they might end in New Rochelle?
And what about the 66 (New Rochelle?-Dobbs Ferry-Mercy College) service only for the AM and PM rush? What about college students who don't drive? And those White Plains Loops and Commuter Services...??? That's a stretch, though very few people use the shuttles...
So this also means later weekend morning buses and earlier weekend evening buses...that is, weekend service starte earlier and ends later...kinda like what's going on in Poughkeepsie...(at least it's not like Poughkeepsie, where buses start running around 8am and end around 6pm)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
This is the third Thanksgiving since the death of the JG Depot driver on 3rd Ave.
May his family have some solace today.
Hey,
I just read some of the older posts about the city of Phoenix, AZ's bus system. I saw the NABI 45C-LFW, which is a SUBURBAN bus rather than a transit bus!
I am wondering what happened to Phoenix's Flxible New Looks, the Am Generals, the GMC RTS-03s, the Flxible Metros, the older MAN articulateds, Orion Is, and all of the GMC RTS-04s.
1. When were these buses retired, and did any of them wear the Valley Metro colors? I know that a few of the RTS-04s wore the Valley Metro purple and green.
2. I know that before Valley Metro was created in 1993, there was a transit agency in the suburb of Mesa, AZ called Mesa Sunrunner. What type of buses did they use, and are any remaining in service today?
Many of those older buses you mentioned wee simply sold off....bunches went to a used bus dealer in temecula, California -- who resold many to Tijuana, Mexicali. They usually don't last long south of the border -- six months to a year, once they quit, they quit for good as parts are usually hard to obtain.
The RTS-4 (GM & TMC 44xx and 45xx) are still in operation on the Red, Blue, 44, 59, 60, 61, 67, 72, 80, 81, 90, 106, 112, 122, 138, 170, 186 and are operated out of Laidlaw (N & W) and ATC Phoenix Transit North Division. The Mesa Sunrunner Lines buses are El Dorado National 20 to 25 passenger buses, somes of these buses are still used on the 96, 104, 120 and 128 Lines, Mesa Forsythe Employee Shuttles and by Atlantic Transit For East Valley (Mesa, Tempe, Scottsdale, Chandler & Gilbert Dial A Ride Services.
All of these buses and dial a ride buses wear Valley Metro Purple and Teal except some of the Gm RTS 4 those wear the Orange and Purple Striping Of Phoenix Transit.
The GMC RTS's are still in operation? I have not seen any of those in a LONG time. There are some photos of them (I think the ones from 1981) at I still see the TMC RTS's, as I ride one home almost every day from school.
The older RTS's (I think 1988) are completely falling apart, but the later ones (1990?)are nice because of their new seat cushions.
I have never been on a MAN articulated. I believe that they only operate backups for local service and East Valley express routes (like the 540) I live nowhere near there, and I hardly get a chance to go there during rush hour.
Also, I have some more questions.
1. What happened to the Bolt buses in Tempe? I go to school on Central Avenue, where there are several Tempe buses (on the Red Line) that pass (NABI 40LFWs and a few 35LFWs, those can get SO crowded that the 35 footers almost always do not stop at my stop after school gets out) by every day, and I have gone to Tempe occasionally yet I have not seen Bolt bus in a very long time.
2. Is is really true that the New Flyer D40LFs will be retired next year? They are only 6-8 years old, which is quite young for a transit bus.
3. I looked at the GMC/TMC RTS delivery lists at www.omot.org and it said that one of the GMC RTS-04 orders (1982) had the EXACT same numbers as the later TMC RTS-06s. The only group of 45xx numbered buses were the GMC RTS-03s, and I don't know when they were retired (when the first NABIs came in, maybe)
4. What model and year are the Mesa Eldorado Nationals? I know that Mesa operates 2001 CNG NABIs, but that's all that I have seen of the Mesa buses.
5. What year were some of the other buses retired? I know that the Flxibles were younger than the GMC RTSs yet I have not seen one of those in many years.
1. They Have All Been Repainted In Standard Valley Metro Logos To Reduce Confusion.
4. There are 1989, 1990 and 1991 Model Years (Some Have No A/C)
5. The Non Accessable Fleet Of Grummann Flexible Metro's (48xx) & AM General 48 & 51 Passenger (48xx & 51xx) were retired in 1997 when the complete Valley Metro Fleet Became 100% Accessable, The Non Accessable Mann Artics (70xx) were kept for spare parts for the accessable Mann Artics)
There are only 10 remaining artics In The Valley Metro Fleet
I know 2 of them are used for am/pm trips on the 560 Avondale Express
they can also be seen on the Green Line and on 41, they also use one on the 533 From E. Mesa.
By the way I was Employed By Phoenix Transit/Valley Metro From 1992 To 1999 and still have inside connections (The Valley Metro Website Is Usless).
Thanks a lot! I moved from the New York Area (around the Bronx) to Phoenix in 1993 and began riding Valley Metro in 2001 because of its convenience. I usually ride the Phoenix routes but sometimes get to the Tempe Red Lines and some of the RPTA routes, as well as the 512 express when I can get it.
Speaking of express routes, I saw the new NABI bus in a pic from APTA 2002. Does anyone know when the 45C-LFWs are coming into express service? Some people say now, others say January, others say a year from now. What lines will they run on (hopefully some will run on the 512- as of now all 3 trips are run by Phoenix NABI 40LFWS with the VERY hard uncomfortable seats that are made for a 10-minute bus ride rather than a 20-minute one). It's about time that Phoenix gets some suburban buses for their long-haul routes.
Hopefully, those buses will get rid of some of the older RTS's (especially the 1988 ones). They have terrible A/C, uncomfortable seats, and are never clean, like the New Flyers. Believe it or not, the best buses are the 4 or 5 new 2002 NABI 40LFW buses for Tempe. They combine the newness of the Phoenix buses with the comfortable seats and interior of the Tempe buses. Unfortunately, I've only gone on one of those once, on the Red Line.
Speaking of the Red Line, are there any 30-foot ElDorado Ez-Riders used by Tempe on that route to Metrocenter and back? I know and have seen 35-foot NABIs on that route during rush hour as well as the standard 40-foot NABIs (which basically sums up the entire Red Line fleet).
And as you mentioned before, the Valley Metro website is useless. It has not been updated for a very long time and does not contain that much info. Seattle Metro can give more information and an info page on their entire fleet of buses! BTW, there was a fleet page on the old Valley Metro website that only showed the Phoenix buses but its gone now.
BTW, does anyone know what type of Eldorado National buses are used in Mesa? Escort, EZ-Rider (I doubt it that that bus model has been around since 1989), or Transmark (There were some Transmark CNGs in Scottsdale until recently, they were only 6 years old and now they are up for sale).
And finally, when will the RTS and New Flyer buses be retired? I guess that the MANs will be gone whenever the new NABIs come in.
Our TA used to have Grummans, and is also called Valley Metro (www.valleymetro.com); in fact, we restored one. Check it out at www.commonwealthcoach.com.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
With the cuts that are to happen, expect heavy revenue on the local lines near where the express routes are to be cut:
QM1,QM2,QM3,QM4,BM1,BM2,BM3,BM4,all liberty lines express and NYBS bus service on weekends.
my question is, does loss of express service out of command on saturday affect saturday service on the B100? I mean, that seems really silly to operate a bus garage(and pay money and all) to operate only 1 bus route with at least 2-3 buses on saturday. even worse. on sundays, the B100 only has 1 bus running from 730a-730p. What will happen?
It'll probably stay. It's a local route. NYCDOT has done things MUCH more wasteful than that.
It was an RTSconversion. Spoke to the driver. It was a former NYCTA bus that was converted to a crew bus. Ya know for movies and the like. The outside paint job (purple and gold) was HORRIBLE, but the inside was really cool. It was the first RTS coversion that I have ever seen. Has anyone else ever seen this bus?
I was working for the MACYS parade today when I saw it.
Peace,
ANDEE
Is it true that the 100 MCI's on order for NYBS are now going to Triboro Coach? If so I would bet that this would be the end for the
1984 GM Rts buses and the 1989 MCI Suburban's.
The 84 RTS buses are filthy, expensive to operate, pollute the air, etc, etc - I am amazed that DOT allows them to stay on the road as far as the Suburbans some share the same problems as the GMC's and they have no wheelchair lifts.
The way this may play out (If True) is the 70 or so Orion CNG suburbans would replace the GMC RTS Buses (Many operate on local routes now anyway) and the new MCI's would take over the Orion's express routes (Except mabe the q53)? The MCI Classics would eiether stick around or be transferred to another DOT line and those GMC RTS buses would be gone.
Any one have any comments on this?
Why would they go to Triboro Coach? Those buses are probably headed to whoever replaces NYBS...there WILL be a replacement. Although it may not operate all of the services.
If the New York Bus Service runs go to the MTA then they will also get the 100 new MCI buses which were orderd for New York Bus.
Thank You
Who is going to pick up the q32 from Hudson depot when it closes? When is this supposed to happen?
[Who is going to pick up the q32 from Hudson depot when it closes?
Presumably, all of Hudson's routes (including its portion of the Q32) would go to Quill.
- - - - -
[When is this supposed to happen?]
Probably when the new 100th Street opens.
I understand that the M-11 will not be going to Quill but to Manhattanville instead
Thank You
[I understand that the M-11 will not be going to Quill but to Manhattanville instead]
In the 1960's, the M-11 operated out of 132nd Street (now Manhattanville), so this won't be the first time operating out of there. Back then, weekday service on many Manhattanville routes utilized new look buses, but the M-11 used almost exclusively old look buses (2600's) for weekday service.
You're referring to a period from roughly 1967 through 1971 or so - when the 2600's (ex-5th Ave. Coach 5104s) provided base service on all 132nd St. Depot routes - the 3, 4, 5, and 11. Ironically when new in 1958 the 2600's were assigned to the same routes except for the 11, which came out of 54th St. in those days.
In the 1967-71 period there were also 5301s assigned to these routes - from the 3300, 67/6800, and 8500 series buses.
Well it would make sense since Riverbank Pk is near Manhattanville Depot.I believe that the M6 and M11 should move to MV to replace the M101 and M103 which would move back to 100 St. Depot when it opens.The M16 and M34 should move to 126th St Depot and the M8,9,14,21 and 22 move to Quill.
M6 should go to Quill...it would mean long deadheading times for M6 drivers...going from 59 St to 132 St would take forever...even if you take Riverside, you have to deal with Broadway first, to get to the start of Riverside Drive, 72nd St...at least that's what I would think...
As for the M16 and 34, Quill would be a better answer, then some of the higher-street crosstowns can go elsewhere...if there's room...like the M10 and/or M116 to Manhattanville or something...
I don't know, I just wanna find out sooner or later what's going down...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
[The M16 and M34 should move to 126th St Depot...]
Why? Having a route that far from its depot is grossly inefficient in terms of pull-outs, pull-ins, and travel to/from reliefs. (The M22 and M27/50 weren't the least bit efficient until they were moved OUT of 126th.)
bahhh,guess it wasnt such a good thought.Alright,all ex-Hudson Pier routes move to Quill except the M11 which'll be out of Manhattanville.
Well it would make sense to put the M11 in manhattenville depot. The depot is right there.
The M11 was in MV before so it could very well return there in fact some buses terminate right near the depot on W 133 St so deadheading is no problem.
Well, that's going to be interesting but I think Quill may pick up the Q32 from HP although for the other HP routes[M6,M8,M9,M11,M14,M16,M21,M22,M34] might be dispersed through Manhattan depots.
This should happen early next year.
I thought the Q32 was gong to be entirely CS.
Well the M22 is no where near Michael Quill depot that should be interesting?
Will Quill depot take Hudson buses too 5000 bus okay to continue series Hudson has 5199-5205 and Quill has 5180-5198 but what about series 8400-8500. Is that series going to Quill. Will Quill keep all there series 8600 and 9600. This will be and interesting change.
I thought HP had 5192-5204. Anyway, it would be interesting to see where their buses would go.
This is what I hope will happen:
The 1984, 1985 & 1986 GM's would probably be retired [this seems like reality]
The 8200's would go to 126 or MV
The 8400's/8500's[assorted btw 8452 and 8487 & 8488-8517] goes to FB, 126 and JG
The 9400's/9500's[9488-9534] goes to JAM
The 9600's[9606-9618] goes to FP
The 5100's/5200's[5192-5204] goes to ENY or Quill
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Hudson Pier has 5190-5204
Ive been hearing rumors that all NYC DOT express bus service on weekends may be cut due to the budget crisis. Havent seen anything on qsbus.com or nycdot, but if its true then its a real darn shame.
Its just gonna discourage more people from going to NYC.
These are real sad times indeed.
As most NYC'ers are thinking, "time to move to the burbs and buy a car!" With zero percent financing, who could go wrong?
I know a few people in real estate in Nassau county and they say they are getting alot of ex-New Yorkers buying up homes close to commuter rail.
As most NYC'ers are thinking, "time to move to the burbs and buy a car!"
We are? Nobody asked me.
>>>As most NYC'ers are thinking, "time to move to the burbs and buy a car!"<<<
Oh so that's what I've been thinking, thanks for clearing that up for me. NOT
Peace,
ANDEE
I'm afraid it's not that simple.
Moving to the suburbs only makes it worse.
Property taxes are twice or triple that in the city. Commuting is much longer and much more expensive. I have coworkers as testimony.
It's going from the frying pan to the fire.
http://www.inform.umd.edu/shuttle/about/press/010827.pdf
check this out.
I hope the MTA takes over the DOT Lines since because now the NYCDOT is comming to a possable Weekend Service Cut on the Express Lines and that is stupid since it also involes the High Ridership Lines like the QM1A and QM2 in Queens BXM1,BXM2,BXM7,BXM7A in the Bronx, And BM2 in Brooklyn. I think the MTA should save those High Ridership Lines since MTA would provide Weekend Express Service to those lines b/c those lines get alot of riders most of the time so they would do the same thing they did to the X1,X10,X27,X28 Lines by adding weekend service.
MTA Bus,Save Us!
The X17 also runs on weekend - Saturday ONLY though
The MTA doesn't provide that weekend service voluntarily in many cases. The X27 and X28 weekend service came after state money was attached for it in the Stillwell Rehab project. They had been asking for two years before they got it. Something tells me that the BM1 would also be the highest ridership NYCDOT express bus route in Brooklyn, since I ride the BM2 periodically and see more people on the BM1.
Both agencies are in cut mode. I'd rather see...put your bats down, please...Atlantic Express get it so that less money can be used to cover the same service. They would be smart to hire the same guys at a good wage since they'll be getting $4 in April anyway.
I am new into busses and I would like to know what RTS's with 6v71 engine sounds like. I already know what a 6v92 RTS sounds like and I rode those busses at Disney World. So I would like to know if anyone with free time can record the engine on those busses. I would appreciate it and thank you in advance. By the way, it does not just have to be a Boston bus, but any RTS with 6v71 engine that still exists. Unfortunately, I cannot travel outside of South Florida, where I live because I have school and a job to search for :-( In addition, if you can record from several of those busses, that would be wonderful! Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Holidays!
Does Oren or any other D.C. bustalker know the address of Ride-On's Gaithersburg Depot or approximately where it is? (All I know is that it's somewhere on Crabbs Branch Way.)
If you take the Red Line to Shady Grove Station, on the East side of the station you can see the Gaithersburg Garage off to the side, you can walk to it from the Station in less than 7 minutes.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks a lot, I found my way there today. I saw a lot if not all of the CNG's refueling there at the time I was there. Also saw the 4 Metro D's, one of the orion VI's also. I also took at look at MCPS's school bus yard right across the street. On my way home, i saw an orion I traveling up 355 displaying "Road Test"?? I also did a little bit of railfanning.Took a Rohr car from Twinbrook to Rockville, Getting of and took another Rohr(in manual operation) from Rockville to Medical Center, and finally taking a Breda (3000 series) from Medical Center to Shady Grove. I also saw a couple of Ride-on busses with interesting phrases in it's route block/run number sign(HOPE, FAST, YO, YOYO) Also took a little trip to the Toyota and Honda dealerships before taking a Metro-E and 5567 home. Overall it was a good day, didnt get lost or anything :)
That's at the east end of the Red Line, right? Or is it the west end? (IOW, Is it the end nearest Silver Spring or the end closest to Rockville?) I don't quite recall off the top of my head...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
West end or the Rockville End
This morning on the LIE in Queens, I spotted Queens Village bus 7004. Normally, there would be little to say about this bus aside from the fact that it was among the first of 110 remanufactured buses. It is actually a GMC 1981 RTS, PA2406.
So what is the big deal about this bus, you ask? Well about two months ago it was sitting in the back of QV depot, apparantly ready for the scrap heap (something that should have happened about six or seven years ago). Well, it left QV last month, but instead of going to Carlton Yard, it was sent to the Zerega Avenue Central Maintenance Facility in the Bronx, where it received a new engine. That's right boys and girls, the TA has just repowered a 21 year-old bus!!! BUS 7004/2406 IS REPOWERED!!! I'll pause here while you pick your jaws up off the floor.
A damning statement as to the condition of not only QV's fleet, but the entire TA's fleet! So, as 'Gotham Bus Company' aptly said, "This is the TA where anything can happen and usually does." Including repowering a bus that's old enough to be in the museum fleet.
Mark
I'm sure this is directly related to the late shipment of additional buses to Queens. Remember, the TA must conform to the clean-air standards to keep the federal funding level flowing as is. This means, a percentage of buses must conform. But 7004? Surely there were other buses that could have been repowered. I suppose, because the bus awas already OOS and in-transit, it was sent to Zerega rather than scrap.
So now we have a 21 year old bus that can barely get out of its own way, rattles and vibrates every internal organ, is loud enough to give you a migraine and is now governed to just under 40MPH.
This is progress?
Sheesh...
WHAT?! Are you sure your vision wasn't blurred ;-)? So you're saying a 21 year old bus,the same 7004 that was supposedly heading for scrap, a GM Reman was repowered, whoa that's unbelievable, I guess they really need the older buses. In the MTA, weird things could really happen.
I also saw weird things like some 1996 Novas having Alcoas AND the regular white rims [ex 9032 & I don't have others in my head] & 8681, 8692 & 9048 has REPOWERED engines! I think 8565 and 8566 has repowered engines as well.
Zerega facility, isnt that Cummins? Well it will be interesting to ride that bus if it's a Cummins engine since TA usually repowers with the DDC Series 50.
The Cummins facility is right up the street from the Zerega CMF, not the same facility. The two facilites are separated on Zerega by the U.S. Dept. of Sanitation building. It would be kinda odd and almost unlikely to have a TA bus repowered with a Cummins engine, am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong...
I gotta find that friggin bus one of these days!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Actually this does not suprise me too much. My guess is transit changed their minds about scrapping buses that were recently rebuilt, even though all of us know their true condition. I was always suspicious about them scrapping all of the 7000 and 7500's in the near future, to meet the clean air act. That would mean that the entire rebuilding process, which is supposed to add I believe 7 years or so to the life of the bus was a COMPLETE waste of time and money. Most likely then somebody's head would be on the chopping block. If 7004 has a series 50 engine then I would look for many more to follow, along with the better performing 7500's.
BIG AL
Is this bus repowered with a DD 50 series engine and a exhaust pipe on top?
Like I've always said, you can't keep a good 21 year old RTS down. Take that Orion! Finally NYCTA is getting their heads on straight.
Well QV needs their 7000s right now and the only solution is to repower them. They just got rid of all of their 1985 RTS to Hudson and to Manhattanville. And Onions 106-108 and 505-521 are on loan from CS. Not sure about the 1986 RTS but all they have to my knowledge are 433x series. And where oh where are the Onion 7's that were supposed to go to MCH and to QV?
Can you say backfire? No where to be seen.
Without 7001-7037 at QV, they would be screwed.
Onions-Grumman's Next Generation of Failure!
#7004 Q46
....and sad. December 1 is almost here and we are still waiting for new Orion 7's, new hybrids and new artics. They were expected in 2002, and there are only 32 days left in the year. I wonder if any, other than 7560, will meet the deadline. In the meantime, the old stuff soldiers on. Pretty sad.
Orions are a mistake as it is. CS used to be one of the best depots in the system, until the Orions came.
By what measure(s) was Casey Stengel Depot "one of the best" before Orions were assigned to it, and what about the Orions has brought the depot down from its previously lofty perch? I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the statement at this point -- I'm just curious as to how the determination was made.
David
An excellent, sensible question. This determination was probably made solely by QTrainDash7, strictly as part of his unending lifelong mission for continuing his barrage of negative anti-Orion opinions, based on absolutely no solid factual information or details. I would love to have him back up his statement with even one solid, proven, written published fact from any other reliable source. P.S. Sooooo many beautiful Asian women ride those horrible Casey Stengel Orions..... Maybe he could interest one in his negative opinions of these buses.
Ugh. Can you keep your personal dislike for QTrain out of good debates? Is that so much to ask? Everytime John posts, you are not too far behind to voice your personal dislike for him or his opinion. This board is not the place for personal attacks. If you want to be a stiff go to Subtalk.
Also, since John is so anti-Orion (with good reason from the facts stated here) why are you so anti-RTS? You stated that it was the worst bus ever built, yet you added no facts to back up this statement. So before you go trying to clean your neighbors house, clean up your own rat infested apartment. Thank you.
Yes, John certainly is entitled to his opinion. And I can also give my opinion of his remarks, since his posting of them allows that. It's not a personal attack - I only asked him to back up his statement with written facts.
I've driven RTS buses in service. They're a horrible bus; the worst ones I've ever driven, in my opinion. Have you ever driven one in service? If you havn't, obviously you don't know anything.
A few of the things that are wrong with the RTS: the small destination sign faces the heavens, fine for the Man Above but difficult for the passengers to see; it requires a bit of being a contortonist to get into the driver's seat; when in service, that seat bounces up and down so much I'd be reasonably certain at least a few drivers have experienced back problems; the outside right side driver's mirror - you have to stretch so far to adjust it that it would be better to provide stepstools in the garage to do it (a very dangerous situation); the bus has no classy design - it appears to me to be a modified torpedo shape; the narrow front doors require those passengers of larger proprtions to turn sideways to enter; inside, the bus reminds me of the darkened interior of a casket (certainly, in this respect alone, Orions are a far better designed bus); the driver's compartment is exceedingly small; its suspension, especially when compared to its predecessor New Looks, has a Coney Island Cyclone roller coaster type bouncing in which the bus feels like it is always bottoming out. As to reliability, every - and I mean every - time I drove one I had to change it because of some type of mechanical or electrical failure. I'd start my shift with an RTS and end up with an Orion.
Now let's hear about YOUR professional experience with these RTS buses.....
Hey Joe,
One question...do you think the MTA LI Bus will add more bus routes to eastern Nassau County? I mean the N90 and N91 are done, so what replaces them?
I'm sorry, but this is a question I cannot answer. Nothing replaces the N90 or N91, both routes which served central and western Nassau (the N91 went into Queens to JFK Airport).
Obviously, you've never heard of TA's ordering RTS buses to specs. As a professional, I'm surprised that you didn't know that. Secondly, with Houston being one of the most obese cities in the country, we had numerous large drivers and passengers alike. Never once did they have any trouble boarding or alighting the bus. Bare in mind that various versions of the RTS buses were in service in Houston for 25 years.
Also, the driver's compartments in Houston's RTS were spacious as those in other buses. In fact, the buses that got the most complaints for bad driver ergonomics was the Ikarus (NABI) for their excessively large and unadjustable steering wheels.
As far as suspension goes, the RTS had the best. They were used on the most rugged routes until their retirement last year. Some of these buses were 20 years old plowing down what were basically dirt roads in some areas. They were extremeley solid and did not bounce nearly as much as the Flxibles did and did not feel as if the bus was about to fall over in the street when making a turn (I'm looking at you 1633).
Over half of the drivers, even the newer ones preferred the RTS to ANY other bus in the fleet. And up until about late 1997, we had over 30 models and variations of buses. Believe me, the drivers called these the "Cadillac of Buses."
As far as the physical appearance of the exterior and interior of the bus is concerned, that's a matter of personal taste and actually has no bearing whether or not the bus is well built or not as I'm sure there are plenty good looking pieces of shit in the world.
Perhaps your agency has lackluster maintainence standards which is no falut of the bus model. And if the RTS buses you drove were the LI models that were cast off from NYCTA then I see why you had so many problems. First of all, the buses had already suffered the rigors of NYCTA streets for 12 years so you were getting heavily used buses, and do you actually think that NYCTA was going to give you the pick of the litter? And if you combine that with LI buses horrible maintainence practices reported by others besides John, you can see why the RTS buses were in deploreable condition. LI Bus can barely keep 6 month old Orions alive, how can they handle city worn RTS buses?
Yeah my bus almost broke down on Thanksiging. It was on the N21, bus #321. There must've been something wrong with the transmission or something, because you'd hear the engine acclerate but we werent moving much. Had to shut it down a few times for the Orion to reboot.
Saw the same driver later with a different bus (I guess 321 gave up the ghost).
Getting back to my comments about CS depot, I remember when they had the RTS's. They always looked in much better shape than the Orions. Even the 6000s look old.
Also the 100s at LI Bus are leaking already.
Gimme an RTS any day over an Orion. Well except for those ones at Staten Island. They are in sorry shape. Then again, their Orions arent super either.
I have to give praise to NJT, which doesnt have one Orion in their whole fleet!
The quality of buses is just not there anymore, the RTS was the last model of strength in a bus, now it is just design that matters now, look at the New Flyers in JG after 3 years but the Orion CNG's are in far better shape than LI Bus's Orion CNG's. NYCT could reverse the breakdowns if it took over & make them more reliable [LI Bus could take a few lessons from NYBS as well].
I say that the Orions in MCH are in the best condition out of all the depots equipped w/Orions. The CNG Orions in JG are in excellent shape STILL after 7 years, only ONE bus[610] had a repaint & some modifications so far.
What about the New Flyers at Jackie Gleason after 3 years?
They are looking stressed out, some of them do not look like they ran for 2-3 years [they look older] & they are getting very dirty.
Is this an issue with the busses themselves, or just maintainance?
The maintenance of the buses is good but the buses themselves is taking some stress.
I'm still having difficulty understanding your meaning of the word stress..... But thanks for responding.
JG's Orions also use a Cummins engine, definately quieter, smoother than the Detroit diesel one.
Even with the DDC engine, QSC's Orion CNG's run alot smoother than the LI Bus ones with the same engine.
I do feel the older Orions may have been built better. Bus number 288 and up here at LI Bus seem to have a bouncier ride, and a poorer suspension than the 100s.
It is difficult to tell which engine is faster (DDC 50G or Cummins).
But lately the Cummins seem to have edge as far as speed.
I know that the NYCTA (and all other transit agenies) orders transit equipment to their specs. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
You mention that Houston has some of the most obese people in the country (send that one to the Chambers of Commerce - I'm sure they'd love to hear that!). And, out of curiosity, how could you come up with that statement? What published facts might you have to back it up?
The suspension used on the RTS may have been rugged but it was extremely hard-riding. The suspension on the GMC New Looks was also rugged - look at the service life of most of these vehicles - but a lot smoother. It reminded me of the newest Orions of today.
The drivers who liked RTS buses may have never driven a GMC New Look. I suggest you find those that have and then ask their opinions. The older drivers in my company swear by the New Looks and lament their passing. The Flxible New Looks (I own one and have driven both the GMCs and Flxibles hundreds of thousands of miles in regular passenger service - how many miles did you drive them, or any other bus for that matter?) were harder riding but still quite comfortable.
Your comment "good looking pieces of shit in the world" tells me a lot. Was it necessary to insert the "s..." word into your post? Pure lack of class.
I noticed also that you failed to respond to even one of my driver complaints about the bus. Certainly they were valid.
You also stated that "LI Bus can barely LI Bus can barely keep 6 month old Orions alive." Prove that one up too - with written, published statements or documentation. You are absolutely wrong. Is your sole source QTrainDash7? What does he know? Is the a mechanic? All buses and transit systems have maintenance problems - some, of course, worse than others. The overall reliability of LI Bus operations at present is now quite good - I can say that from working there. How would you know about our operations - are you here - like QTrainDash7 - to observe?
And, last but not least, and a repeat of a previously asked question - what is YOUR professional experience in driving or maintaining a bus???
>>>I know that the NYCTA (and all other transit agenies) orders transit equipment to their specs. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.<<<
Why does it not have anything to do with the discussion at hand? By TAs ordering at different specs, it can change the bus around entirely. From engine to driver compartment.
>>>You mention that Houston has some of the most obese people in the country (send that one to the Chambers of Commerce - I'm sure they'd love to hear that!). And, out of curiosity, how could you come up with that statement? What published facts might you have to back it up?<<<
The Houston Chronicle. It's called a newspaper. Send that to the chamber of commerce.
>>>The drivers who liked RTS buses may have never driven a GMC New Look. I suggest you find those that have and then ask their opinions. The older drivers in my company swear by the New Looks and lament their passing. The Flxible New Looks (I own one and have driven both the GMCs and Flxibles hundreds of thousands of miles in regular passenger service - how many miles did you drive them, or any other bus for that matter?) were harder riding but still quite comfortable.<<<
Dude, do some research befoee you ask silly questions. The New Looks in Houston lasted 30 years. 1961 thru 1991. Over 50% of Metro bus drivers have been with the company for more than 10 years so they have driven a New Look. They called them "Rehabs" as they were rehabbed after the Grumman disaster. The drivers said they had good A/C but they were'nt a pleasure to drive becuase they were hard riding and were a pain to steer.
>>>Your comment "good looking pieces of shit in the world" tells me a lot. Was it necessary to insert the "s..." word into your post? Pure lack of class.<<<
What does that have to do with anything? Are you just upset becuase you're getting handled in this debate? And what class do you have? Half of your posts consist of stalking and ripping on John. Get a new hobby and a life.
>>>I noticed also that you failed to respond to even one of my driver complaints about the bus. Certainly they were valid.<<<
I noticed that your reading comprehension skills must be at the level of an autistic 1st grader as I did address all of them. Try reading and understanding opposing views instead of making bitter and and clever (and I use the term loosely) comments.
>>>You also stated that "LI Bus can barely LI Bus can barely keep 6 month old Orions alive." Prove that one up too - with written, published statements or documentation. You are absolutely wrong. Is your sole source QTrainDash7? What does he know? Is the a mechanic? All buses and transit systems have maintenance problems - some, of course, worse than others. The overall reliability of LI Bus operations at present is now quite good - I can say that from working there. How would you know about our operations - are you here - like QTrainDash7 - to observe?<<<
Dude, your obsession with John is creepy. Didn't I say that others besides John decried LI Bus's maintaience, among other issues? Also, if you have buses breaking down everyday during the summer and buses that are barely a year or two old having transmission problems, there's obviously something going on that you don't want to admit. And seeing as how you work for LI Bus (as a driver no less not a mechanic) I'd think that you would be slightly biased as what you may thing is good maintainence, others may think as atrocious. I'm sure some old NYCTA hack thought that thier maintainence was good in the late 70's but I'm sure 80% here would disagree.
>>>And, last but not least, and a repeat of a previously asked question - what is YOUR professional experience in driving or maintaining a bus???<<<
I don't have any professional experience driving buses. I'm 17 so I don't see how that is possible. Despite this, I've been able to hold my own against the likes of you very well with all your so called professional experience. Stop wasting time hounding John and do your homework.
RTS 2150: Why does it not have anything to do with the discussion at hand? By TAs ordering at different specs, it can change the bus around entirely. From engine to driver compartment.
Response: Correct, but again I can only account for the RTS' I've driven. They were too small and tight - and I'm a smaller guy. I've seen larger drivers "steering" the RTS bus with their stomach. And, as to the driver's compartment, I seriously doubt (although I could be wrong) that any larger one could have been specified, as that may have changed the interior structural assembly.
RTS 2150: The Houston Chronicle. It's called a newspaper. Send that to the chamber of commerce.
Response: I'm sure they read it. And suggest you learn capitalization. Chamber and Commerce should be capitalized. Perhaps you’re that autistic 1st grader. And it's good knowing where I can read the article. Thank you.
RTS 2150: I noticed that your reading comprehension skills must be at the level of an autistic 1st grader as I did address all of them. Try reading and understanding opposing views instead of making bitter and and clever (and I use the term loosely) comments.
Response: You addressed nothing. So that you can reread my complaints, here they are. A few of the things that are wrong with the RTS: the small destination sign faces the heavens, fine for the Man Above but difficult for the passengers to see; it requires a bit of being a contortionist to get into the driver's seat; when in service, that seat bounces up and down so much I'd be reasonably certain at least a few drivers have experienced back problems; the outside right side driver's mirror - you have to stretch so far to adjust it that it would be better to provide step stools in the garage to do it (a very dangerous situation); the bus has no classy design - it appears to me to be a modified torpedo shape; the narrow front doors require those passengers of larger proportions to turn sideways to enter; inside, the bus reminds me of the darkened interior of a casket (certainly, in this respect alone, Orions are a far better designed bus); the driver's compartment is exceedingly small; its suspension, especially when compared to its predecessor New Looks, has a Coney Island Cyclone roller coaster type bouncing in which the bus feels like it is always bottoming out. As to reliability, every - and I mean every - time I drove one I had to change it because of some type of mechanical or electrical failure. I'd start my shift with an RTS and end up with an Orion.
RTS 2150: Dude, do some research befoee you ask silly questions. The New Looks in Houston lasted 30 years. 1961 thru 1991. Over 50% of Metro bus drivers have been with the company for more than 10 years so they have driven a New Look. They called them "Rehabs" as they were rehabbed after the Grumman disaster. The drivers said they had good A/C but they were'nt a pleasure to drive becuase they were hard riding and were a pain to steer.
Response: First, the name isn’t “dude.” It’s Joe. What silly questions? No question is silly - that’s how one learns. How many drivers did you personally survey to get your information? Only a 100% survey, not a random and perhaps slanted sample, of all drivers who operated these buses would result in a true unbiased answer. And, I suggest you brush up on your spelling: “were'nt” should be “weren’t.”
RTS 2150: What does that have to do with anything? Are you just upset becuase you're getting handled in this debate? And what class do you have? Half of your posts consist of stalking and ripping on John. Get a new hobby and a life.
Response: I notice in your other posts you also curse with capitals. What school did you attend? Perhaps I would want to send my grandkids there should I want them to learn what you have. Why the cursing and proliferation of 4-letter words? This does not belong in this group; all questions can be answered without the use of such words. But this is possible only by a normal mature person with class, education and social grace. I’m going to gather your recent posts which have included such words and send a personal e-mail to David and perhaps he’d consider removing you from this group. I’m not stalking John or you, just responding his comments as you are to mine. New hobby? I’ve been in this hobby since I could crawl. I thank my parents for encouraging it. Your new hobby should be twofold: an attempt at the elimination of both your 17-year-old know-it-all without any experience attitude and the substitution of normal words for 4-letter curses. And, oh yes, “becuase” is spelled “because,” “befoee” is spelled “before.”
RTS 2150: Dude, your obsession with John is creepy. Didn't I say that others besides John decried LI Bus's maintaience, among other issues? Also, if you have buses breaking down everyday during the summer and buses that are barely a year or two old having transmission problems, there's obviously something going on that you don't want to admit. And seeing as how you work for LI Bus (as a driver no less not a mechanic) I'd think that you would be slightly biased as what you may thing is good maintainence, others may think as atrocious. I'm sure some old NYCTA hack thought that thier maintainence was good in the late 70's but I'm sure 80% here would disagree. “Bus's “ should be “Bus,’
Response: Buses are mechanical objects; they can break down. While it is true the summertime or wintertime can put added stress on buses - or any other vehicle for that matter - what other persons decried LI Bus’ maintenance (the word you misspelled “maintaience”)? Unless you are here - not in Houston - you have no right to judge anything just as I have no right to judge anything or anyone in your city. You may render an opinion but an opinion is not fact. No transit system is perfect. Also, more misspellings aand grammatical on your part: “thing” should be “think,” “Bus's “ should be “Bus,’ “maintaience” and “maintainence” should be “maintenance.”
RTS 2150: I don't have any professional experience driving buses. I'm 17 so I don't see how that is possible. Despite this, I've been able to hold my own against the likes of you very well with all your so called professional experience. Stop wasting time hounding John and do your homework.
Response: This paragraph says it all. 17 years old, no experience driving buses, but attempts to profess he knows it all. Specializes in the use of 4-letter words. Can't even spell simple words, use a dictionary or spell checker. Need more be said?
LOOK, most of your posts has been of an inflamitory nature towards someone. STOP doing this, or I will send an E-Mail about YOU to Mr. Pirrman. BusTalk does NOT need the crap and personal attacks that goes on at SubTalk brought over here. BusTalk has been successful in maintaining a calm and respectful atmosphere despite SubTalk's problems, and I will NOT let you upset this balance. I DEMAND that you stop your campaign of insults towards John and RTS 2150.
Likewise, how about telling RTS2150 to stop continually using 4-letter words, which are totally unnecessary. I am never the aggressor, but will always respond if I see fit.
Cursing is perfectly acceptable.
I agree BUT to a certain extent. If it is out frustration or someone gets on your nerves then so be it but if it is not needed, then it is totally inexcusable.
Not within this newsgroup - David doesn't tolerate it and we should all respect him for that. There is nothing that cannot be said without the use of 4-letter words. Only the immature and uneducated use them here.
Know-it-all 17 year old? How about a know-it-all 59 year old who can't stand to have his exhaulted opinions threatened. And being an "English Teacher" is the oldest gimmick in the book as far as diverting form the topic goes. Get a grip dude, you've lost.
The only complaint I didn't address is the issue of the destination signs which I've never seen face the heavens. My only complaint with them would have to be the older Vultron signs which were sometimes unreadable. Now however, most of those signs have been replaced with newer ones that face the front and are easily readable by the riding public. For buses that do have sign problems, see New Flyer for signs that sink downward or are unreadable at night due to bad lighting.
So look here dude, I've rebutted all of your so called points. I think you should keep to your day job of harassing posters and using personal attacks instead of attempting to debate with know-it-all 17 year olds because it's obvious not a strong point of yours.
Hey, boy, I really wish you the best of luck with your chosen career - but I sincerely doubt it will be that of a diplomat.
I respect anyone who can maturely debate, without a proliferation of 4-letter words. My opinions are not always correct, and neither are yours. When I'm wrong, however, saying sorry is the right thing to do.
Kid, I've got a few things going for me that you don't have at this stage in your life - maturity for one, and life and lifelong transit experience for the others. Hopefully, you may one day attain at least the first one.
There's an actual book you may be interested in; perhaps the other BusTalkers can chip in and give it to you as a holiday gift. It's titled "Bad Words Dictionary and Even Worse Expressions" by Voy Sobon. It has, according to its cover, "Injurious Language, Vulgar Expressions, Curses in English, Spanish, German, Dutch and Japanese." Its ISBN number is 0-9651398-1-6, and the book is published by Bona Fide, Inc. in New York City.
Imagine the vulgar way you could speak and write in multiple languages! Impress or disgust everyone.....
I said STOP!!!
Ok, I tried to stay out of it but you need to stop bashing Qtraindash and do something else besides arguing with someone. I'm getting real annoyed at your bashing of him, he's just speaking his opinion, just like you and all of us here at Bustalk. Do you like him or something, if you disagree with him so much, put his handle on killfile, don't respond to him or stay on the damn topic and keep his name out of it!
Back on topic, no I do not work for any transit agency but from what I've seen, the RTS & GM New Looks are two of the best bus models of all time, the most durable, true quality buses ever made. Some New looks here in NYC went from 1965-1967 to 1993-1995 and some RTS's have been running for 21 years.
John is probably a nice person, but has no comprehension - the same as another certain know-it-all 17-year-old who posts here - of what it takes to operate a transit system. I'm living it at least five days a week. The so-called bashing is merely my response to his barrage of chronic, most times picayune complaints of the good transit service we're trying to provide. If he posts these complaints and I feel they're unjustified, a response, from me or anyone, may be in order. Just as John or anyone else is entitled to post anything they wish, anyone is also entitled to respond to them. That's the purpose of this group.....
As I said previously, yes, the New Looks (both GMC and Flxible) were sturdy, well-built classic machines. Orions - which I've been driving since 1991 - are not terrible and in actuality are, in my opinion, far better than the RTS. In fact, I generally drive one specific diesel Orion every day. As of last week, it had just passed the 495,000-mile mark. I expect to be at the wheel when it hits the half-million mile mark - probably in about 2 weeks. This bus has never been rebuilt or repainted, although I'm not positive if the engine has had any major work on it. It operates like a charm, and I'm proud to be its main pilot.....
The diesel Orions still run great. You're not the only driver I know who prefers them. Thats why I feel they shouldnt be scrappred so soon. The leaks are fixable.
Long live the 6V92!
ONIONS ARE HORRIBLE! Nothing from Onion runs great. I remember I rode 623 on N21 and it was so slow amd dirty looking: YUCK!
Bring back the Flexibles! Heck even those RTS they had were better than these Grumman 2s!
#881 N20
And, of course, you're one who has driven many different Orions and are qualified to make that statement? Perhaps you were on one that didn't perform up to par that day, but don't condemn an entire fleet for something you really don't know anything about.....
I'm not a driver. I've rode on so many different Onions that I could say that they do not perform up to par. Even if I was a driver, everyone has a different opinion of what bus they like the most and/or better. And I will continue to say that I dislike the ONIONS!
Problem?
#1979 x1
You certainly may dislike Orions, and I respect that, but as a driver I can assure you most of the ones I've driven over the past 11 years have performed quite well. Many of our LI Bus diesels have either reached or are near reaching 500,000 miles and still galloping along.
They are the better ones of that group at LIB. However the CNG is a completely another issue-problem-dilemma and some.
#600 N21
Heard it from a bus operator once, as well as several other people on the internet. I believe CS was one of the first depots to recieve Orions, based on their then "premier" status.
Unless that Bus Operator is assigned to all of NYCT's depots at the same time (which is not possible given NYCT's work rules and the contracts with its unions), his or her opinion is not based on anything. He or she may feel that the depot is not as good a place to work as it once was, and he or she may not like the Orions (and is entitled to both opinions), but he or she has no way of knowing firsthand what other depots are like and probably doesn't know how Casey Stengel's performance is relative to other depots'. As to what people on the Internet say, if everything said on the Internet were true, the world would have ended years ago.
David
Well I rode some CS Orions today, they still run a hell of alot better than anything we have at LI Bus.
I just remember CS's buses looking better when they had RTS's. Maybe that was before the scratchitti struck.
Yukon got the first batch of Orions - The Suburbans
Quite intriguing. This illustrates what the MTA can really whip up!
nyct playing with fire again. 7000 was actually repowered in 1994. do the math. it should have been scrapped by now. nyct forgetting the disaster that occurred on the gowanus in 1992 with 5567 which they kept in service beyond its 7 year expected rebirth.
Lol! Why am I not surprised at this development. It illustrates the sad state of transit bus manufacturing in this country if no one can produce a product that will withstand the rigors of NYC. I wonder if the TA will expand beyond it's present group of manufacturers (MCI, New Flyer & Orion)and give others such as NABI & Neoplan a chance?Once again, despite the fact that I hate it, the RTS proves that it and only it can take what NYC streets can dish out. Having said this, I won't be looking forward to driving a repowered 70xx or 75xx bus. The damn things rattle and shake like crazy with their current 6v92TA engines. It's only going to get worse with a DD-50 in the engine compartment.
And to think, they're still uninformed fools that believe the RTS was "the worst bus ever built" in all aspects! Like P-Diddy said "If you can make it here (NYC), you can make it anywhere."
Sorry to burst yoy pal.....but it was SINATRA, not p.daddy!!
No, P-Diddy said it in the "Welcome to Atlanta" remix.
[It illustrates the sad state of transit bus manufacturing in this country if no one can produce a product that will withstand the rigors of NYC.]
For many of us oldtimers who lived through many years when there were only two manufacturers of transit buses, I think the prolifieration of manufacturers the past decade or two has improved the market. Just because a manufacturer doesn't want to go through all the hoops NYCT requires doesn't mean that its bus wouldn't hold up to the rigors of NYC. NABI's and Gillig's seem to do OK in some pretty tough urban areas. And ait's much too premature to pre-judge the Orion VII.
I agree with you about the Orion VII. Let's give it a chance. I disagree with you about the Gillig. Gillig is really a medium duty transit bus and I don't believe it would perform well in NYC. NABI and Neoplan might prove to be reliable products. I just wish the TA would give them a try.
If the 70xx and 75xx buses are being repowered, can the 4300-4800 series buses be far behind?
Actually, a Neoplan was tried in the past but it looked like the TA didn't like it. No, don't count on the 4300's-4800's getting repowered, they are already scrapping/selling them or putting them in storage & might be too costly & wouldn't be worth it IMO.
God I hope the 4600's/4700's don't get repowered. It will make the Brooklyn Division more miserable than it already is.
It is not possible to repower a bus that never had an engine :)
Well I don't think so!
The 43xx-48xx Series RTS's are going to be gonners but there's some that is still in good shape. Like 4330 at QV. Had 4330 on Friday on the 6:24 AM Q46 to Glen Oaks. Rode it from Kew Gardens to 164 St was a good ride and it's still in good shape.
Q46 GM RTS #4330(Run #15)
I wouldn't look for the 4300-4800's being repowered mainly since they were not sent through the rebuilding process. The 7000-7500's were rebuilt with the intention of keeping them on the road for at least another 7 years, which is why transit probably decided to repower them, if they are indeed going to repower anymore at all.
BIG AL
It's premature to say that no transit bus other than the RTS can make it over the long term on NYC's streets. None of NYCT's other models have been on these streets anywhere near long enough to make that determination, and the "shaker tests" NYCT demands before purchasing a new bus model indicate that the various models currently in use CAN withstand at least a normal life cycle's worth of potholes and other street conditions.
David
orions have cracked repeatedly. i know this for a fact as a friend works at eny cmf. the only difference between grumman and orion is nyct has kept this hush hush.
NYCT's early Orions did crack. They got patched (the bracket above the middle of the destination sign, which is also on the New Flyers) and to my knowledge are now running fine. By the way, the earliest "fishbowls" also cracked.
David
what i meant is cracked frames which they indeed do.
As I've said before, a rebuild generally give a bus 6-10 years more. The factors in whether or not it will be retired go well beyond the vehicle age.
-Hank
I decided to take the bus into work today since my g/f wanted to go to Fair Oaks Mall tonight and since I didn't feel like tackling the parking lots, she'll take the 1C from Ballston and I'll pick it up here in Fairfax and meet her on the bus.
So, I had 2161, Orion V on the 1C this AM. Got to use the new fareboxes for the first time. Its 'ok', but I use that term loosly. The slot for the coins is very narrow, so you almost have to put them in one at a time. Two of my dimes got wedged in and I had to rattle one to get it to fall in. I was tempted to try to put a $5 bill in and recharge my Smartrip to see how that worked, but didn't want to chance it. Its kind of funny when someone puts pennies in. This really loud and annoying bell goes off. Its actually embarrassing for that stupid thing to go off like that when someone does this. The sound reminded me of a slot machine buzzer. At first I thought it was someone behind us blowing their horn, but I realized it was coming from the front. I read somewhere that WMATA was going to look into having the machines accept pennies if the demand was high enough.
Didn't seen anything unusual today. Nice light traffic though, so the buses are all running on time. I saw several driving rather slow to keep up with their schedule. This is the one day where it would be pretty easy to run hot.
Do anybody have a pic of the WMATA's new Fareboxes?
I haven't seen one anywhere. They're a pain to use though.
What's with the engine on 4517? It's not the original. It sounds like a 8000 series bus. And if it is, which bus did it get it from???
Around 1990 or 1991 bus 4517 (aka "The Talking Bus"), received a new 6V92TA engine, and a new transmission, complete with a trap oxidizer for cleaner emissions. It was a setup quite similar to what was found on the 1990 TMC's (8000's), hence the engine sound. It was an experimental bus to say the least, as it also tested an automatic public address system that announced the route and destination at every stop.
MH