That right I saw an NJT RTS(could not get the number) on th SI Express Way heading to the Outer Bridge. I think it was a traing bus since there was someone in uniform stading in the front steps holding something with one of his hand(maybe a trolly brake.) I never saw a NJT bus in this part of NY.
Robert
Most Likely It was a Training Run. When NJT Trains, they go anywhere!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I just never saw them in SI. I know that it was more that likey a training bus. I say since I moved to NJ and have been seeing both types of RTS's on NJT paint jobs I started to like how they look. They are better looking then the MTA plain white and blue paint jobs thay have on there buses. For the most part all NJT buses look batter then the MTA buses bast on paint jobs.
Robert
It was more than likely an Academy NJT Contracted unit. Academy in Central NJ depots out of Perth Amboy, which is right over the Outerbridge.
That's the Outerbridge Crossing, not the Outer Bridge. It's named for a man, not its location.
If it was an Academy contract unit, it may have been in shuttle service at the College of Staten Island.
-Hank
No It was a fill NJT bus, not a Academy unit, it was most likey a traing bus from them since there was a person stading in the front door holding a trolly brake. I did not know that it was Outerbridge was named for someone. Thank for information.
Robert
What is a trolly brake?
Academy runs some NJT Contracted routes, and there buses are in the New Jersey Transit scheme not the Acadmey scheme.
Tony
there was another nj transit rts on hylan blvd today.
academy buses serve csi and they are painted in academy colors. i never heard of anyone named outerbridge. what is the alleged first name.
The Outerbridge Crossing was named in honor of Eugenius H. Outerbridge, first Chairman of the Port Authority. His sister is generally credited with bringing tennis to the US, and he also founded the company that produces Homasote.
-Hank
Nobody knows it's named for someone. :(
-Hank
Anyone can help me out. I'm keeping this in my records. Again, I would like to know where all the NJTransit 1994 Flxible METRO "D" suburbans are located in which garages? Does Oradell garage still has buses #3730-3743 or they have gone to another garage?
Thank you!
Ronnie
The Oradell buses went to Market st. when the d4000's came in. Other garages that have them in the Northern division are: Hilton , and Big Tree. I don't know the Southern Nj garage rosters.
Troy
Don't forget Greenville, and Ironbound, they have a lot.
Tony M.
Whoops my bad, those were transit Metro d's. Greenville and Ironbound have transit versions, not Suburban buses. Sorry my mistake.
Tony
[Whoops my bad, those were transit Metro d's. Greenville and Ironbound have transit versions, not Suburban buses. Sorry my mistake.]
Don't feel so bad! Just for the record, your original response was correct. The precise question asked was: "I would like to know where all the NJTransit 1994 Flxible METRO "D" suburbans are located in which garages?" The poster wanted info on suburbans, not transits.
Only 1 Garage down here in South Jersey have Suburban Metro D's. Newton Avenue has 3700, 3704 to 3723. Egg Harbor had a few of them, but I think they went elsewhere when the D4000's arrived here. I remember that they had 3701-3703, 3727, 3744 to 3746. They were uses mostly on the 552, 553, and 559 line when these routes needed a wheelchair bus. Now I know for a fact that Egg Harbor has a few MC9A's left, and they use them mostly on the 559, so when they need a wheelchair bus, do they still have acouple of Flx's left, or do they use the RTS's?
If they need a wheelchair bus, they just use a D4000 - that was the whole point of replacing the 9s.
I forgot to mention that the 559 has weight restrictions on part of its route, and cannot run the D4000's because they are too heavy.
ahh yes, that's right - forgot about those... you'd think NJDOT would have taken care of that years ago.
I'd bet there's a M-D suburban in either Egg or Howell just for the 559.
The 559 is operated entirely out of Egg Harbor. My guess is that because Howell is Central Division and Egg Harbor is Southern Division, that splitting the 559 between those two depots is not quite feasible.
Which is one of NJTBus' flaws. There is no reason for 4 separate divisions (Northern, Central, Mercer, Southern) or separate fare structures. Unify the system and operating costs will drop.
There are only 2 fare structures, One for the Northern and one for the Southern, but then again Park and Ride lots and Special Events such as the Meadowlands Racetrack, Giants Statium and the Arena. Those lines too have there own fare structure. Also we have only 2 Control Centers, one in the North and one in the South. I am not sure if NJT is still separated into 4 divisions, last time I was at the GOB, I was talking to the head of personel, he told me that Howell Garage is part of the Northern division. I dunno............It is kinda weird I guess.
Tony M.
So I would be guessing that if the Wheelchair need a W/C Lift Bus on the 559 then it would have to be a Nova RTS
Thank you guys for the information, but some of you are not sure where buses 3701-3703, 3724-3727, and 3744 are located? Hmmmm. Coach 3746 I believe is at Big Tree Garage.
I'm smiling right now that the Oradell Flxible METRO "Ds" are at Paterson, NJ(Market St. Garage) because my aunt and cousins live there and when I visit them I can ride the METRO "D" to New York. Any of you know which routes do they primaryly use these buses?
Thanks again and have a great day!
-Ronnie
I think 3701-3703 are at market street, I could have sworn I seen them on the 160 line and the Gw bridge lines a couple times!
Tony
I know someone answered this a few months ago but does anyone have a good answer on why they wouldnt replace the whole suburban fleet with MCI's? Passaic always had the Flixble's on the 190 but now we have a whole fleet of MCI's. Now the poor people in Hudson and Essex county have to deal with them. With an order this big you would think they would make sure that all customers had a comfortable ride if enough people take the bus.
[does anyone have a good answer on why they wouldnt replace the whole suburban fleet with MCI's?]
My best guess would be that the MCI's do not have a rear door. NJ Transit must feel that there are some routes that currently have suburban Flxibles in the 3000 and 3500 series that have enough on and off traffic that a rear door is a necessity.
Frankly, I'm surprised to see so many D4000 and D4500's on the 190. I feel that the loads and traffic on that route make a rear door so much better for passengers. On the other hand, I feel the same way about the 165, and that has been dominated by Cruisers for many years.
Frankly,
Coming from experience, to me, I believe that MCI D4000 sucks when it come to high passenger volume! I mean, sometimes I do lines like the 128 and 190, I hate it when all the passengers standing on the bus get off to let other people get off. When I used to drive the Flxible on the 190, I never used to have this problem, Just pop open the back door, and boom they are off! Also, to me the aisle on the Flxible 3500 series, is a little wider than the MCI. Passengers do not rub up all over each other. However in a way, I know why NJT is replacing the Flxibles with MCI's, They do not let you open the rear door, in the Port Authority, in a way it is stupid, cause passengers get off quicker, but when traffic is moving in the port, those damn people won't let the rear door close, and the door will get hung up. But, in city driving, the rear door does help, I miss driving the Metro B's. We only have 8 left and they are work horses, they are constantly out, I think my garage should have atleast held on to the Flxibles with the fareboxes, It was a real stupid desicion they made, to replace the metros with D4500 Mci's. I mean they are great to replace the Volvos, but not the Flxibles. The d4500's sometimes suck to turn in tight spaces, where the flxible could just zip by. I mean we do not need all the 4500's we have. I mean it is real ridiculous. But I know the Metros time is running thin, and eventually they will be all gone.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
I received my METRO-magazine lastweek and I wanted to point out some interesting and not surprise news.
It's that time of season. Metro-mag. ranks the top 100 Bus Fleets Downsizes.
-First place: MTA NYCT WITH 4,600 buses
-Second place: NJ Transit Corp. with 2,942 buses down from 297 buses. Lastyear, I beleive they have a total of 3,000 buses.
-Third: LACMTA(Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority) with 2,366 buses
-Fourth: CTA(Chicago Transit Authority) with 1,968 buses
-7th: WMATA(Washington Metropolitan Transit Authority) with 1,533 buses
-8th place: Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County(Houston METRO) with 1,457 buses
-10th place is a tie between SEPTA and NYC Department of Transportation. Each has 1,300 buses
-12th place is King County Metro(Seattle) with 1,241
-15th place: Port Authority of Allegheny County(PAT, or Pittsburg) with 1,029
-16th place: MBTA(Boston) with 996 buses
-21st place: Maryland Transit Administration(Baltimore) with 859 buses
-22nd place: RTA(Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority) with 855 buses
-27th place: Miami-Dade Transit Authority with 706 buses
-29th place: MARTA(Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) with 690 buses
-32nd place:D-DOT(Detroit Dept. of Transportation) with 591 buses
-34th place: DOT Services Public Transit Division(Honolulu, HI) with 555 buses
-42nd place: MTA Long Island Bus with 416 buses
-54th place: Mountgomery County Transit Services with 336 buses
-60th place: COTA(Central Ohio Transit Authority or Columbus, OH) with 300 even
-89th place: Down from 7 spots lastyear is my home town transit TARTA(Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority) with 181 buses
-100 place: Lane Transit District(Eugene, OR) with 123 buses
Okay, there were a record number of ties in this years listing- six total, including a three-way tie for No.70th place. This years fleet mix. Over 35 ft. 80%(47,442), Under 35 ft. 13.8%(8,207), Articulated 5.2%(3,074) and Trollies count for 1%(651). Overall, fleet numbers show a decrease of 665 buses from last year for a total of 59,374 vehicles.
Forty-eight of the fleets listed in the top 100 are 100% compliant with the ADA, a 7% increase. Overall, 48,927 buses are wheelchair accessible, making up 82% of the combined Noth American bus fleet total. Low-floor buses account for 22% of the total, numbering 12,830 buses.
More than half of the participants(54%) that responded to their survey have alternative-fule vehicles within their fleets. Compressed natural gas(CNG) is the fuek of choicefor 77% of alternative-fueled fleets. Hybrid electric technology is the second-highest fuel choice, used by 14 fleets. At nine total, fleets using Liquified natural gas, bio-diesel and propane as fuel alternatives comprised the smallest number of fleets.
The fleet with the largest number of alternative fuel vehicles(1,862) is LACMTA(Los Angeles County MTA), with 79% of its fleet dedicatied to CNG.
Top 100 Develop New Services
-CATS equips buses with digital video,AVL
-Tucson wraps up buses with ad program
-LYNX provides free roadside assistance to motorist
-Santa Monica adds bus lanes, art to transit mall
-MARTA, Atlanta Falcons develop pass program for easy access to home games
-Foothill Transit unveils CNG buses(ORION 5s), fueling station
-Seattle agencies join to offer ridesharing services
-Cleveland gets green light for BRT project. Euclid Corridor Project.
-Sam Trans develops warning systems to prevent collisions
-Tri-Met customers can track bus arrival via the Internet
-And Port Authority of Allegeny County(PAT or Pittsburg Transit) updates fleet with new buses. They will bring 250 new Gilligs into service by the end of 2003. I bet some of the members of the Ohio Museum of Transportation who are close to PAT are pulling their hairs. PAT approved the purchase of 165 40-foot low-floor GILLIG buses for $57.8 million and 25 60-foot Neoplan articulated coaches for $13.1 million. Contracts with both manufacturers include training, spare parts and options for annunciators and cameras, as well as options to purchase additional buses for the next five years.
The board also approved the purchase of 60 35-foot high floor GILLIG buses, which will start being delivered in January 2003
Suppliers & Services
-MARTA adds 130 new low-floor CNG buses, manufactured by DaimlerChrysler Orion Bus Industries of Oriskany, N.Y., to its fleet. The 40-foot clean-fuel ORION VII buses, featuring programmable logic controllers and bicycle racks, are part of MARTA's two-year bus replacement program.
-MCI(Motor Coach Industries) delivers 8 new D4000 commuter coaches to PACE Suburban Bus in Chicago.
-Cummins Inc. received certification for its medium-duty ISB engine from the EPA. The ISB is the second Cummins engine to be certified at the 2.5 gram NOx + NMHC standard, which goes into effect October 1st.
This infomation was brought to you form METRO magazine
Have a great day everyone!
-Ronnie
Miami Dade Transit only has 706 buses? I'm thinking about it and wondering if thats enough for all thier local routes plus the Max routes they run and also the connection routes like the East-West Connector and the Seaport Connector.By the way,does anyone know of a website that has the official roster of buses for Miami Dade with photos? I would sure love to know the current fleet accurate as of this year.
Try this site which is run by a friend of mine; http://www.miamidadetransit.com/
Thanks alot,that site is awesome!I can't believe that he OWNS a bus!I never thought that was possible!You think you can ask him where and when that type of auction occurs? I was always saying that I would love to own a bus instead of a car,now I know my dream can come true....I just gotta get my license first.Please let me know about those types of auctions in which you can BUY a bus,I'm just dying to get some info about that!Big congrats to your friend for buying it.I sure as hell got the shock of my life seeing those pictures of his bus in his own house.
Did you look at the trolley column. Muni has one "trolley" in their fleet, while cities with no overhead wires have several "trolleys".
Metro magazine defines a trolley (bus) as having electric motors powered from overhead wires.
What do you expect from a pro-bus publication!
Okay, I didn't get the chance to type this information from METRO magazine down for you guys so here goes.
Champion of the most buses
-The transit with the most buses under 35 ft. belongs to PACE Suburban Bus of Arlington Heights, IL with 613 buses.
-This is a know brainer. The transit with the most over 35 ft. long is yes MTA NYC bus with 4,230 then NJ Transit with 2,758 and LACMTA with 2,349. WMATA rack up 1,310 40 ft. buses.
-This is sort of a trick question to some of you. Which transit has the most articulateds? Tick-tock-tick-tock-tick-tock. Okay, the winner is King County Metro(Seattle) with 536 artics and second belongs to MTA NYC bus with 370 artics. Third place is Houston METRO with 211 artics, WMATA has 58 artics and NJ Transit has 105 artics.
-Transit with the most trolleys belongs to Coast Mountain Bus Co.(Vancouver, BC) with 232.
That is all for now. Good day!
-Ronnie
Roll those METROS!!!
That artric # is going to be changing within the next few months w/an additional 280 D60HF's gracing the streets of New York.bringing the total of artrics in here to roughly 650.
is NewFlyer still making high floor coaches, or will these be some of the last built?
On the Standards I think they stopped with the HF's but I think these might be it because these were the option added on to an original order.
their website indicates they are not offering any more standard floor buses. nyct appears to be the last order and dont forget this is a 2 year old order just now being filled.
Here is the listing. Check the "trolley" column.
http://www.metro-magazine.com/images/art/0902_Top100.pdf
I know it's kinda late to ask, since the change was made long ago. How long was it anway? 5 years?
Getting on to topic, I'd appreciate if the answers to my questions can be fufilled.
1 - Why was this change preformed in the first place? I remember it being a total frustration for people who lived along the Q44's old route. Has the change benefited anything?
2 - I remember asking a friend, a bus driver who did has done some rounds on the Q20A, saying the B will be rid of. Any truth to that claim? Keep in mind I haven't met him in quite a while! Maybe 8 to 10 months...
3 - Why are there 2 Q44's? One regular and one limited. I mean, do limiteds really do their job? Any ridership figures to make me a believer?
Thanks for your time.
They should can the B and just add runs to the A. The Q20A runs down 20 av which now has lots of stores and new development.
I agree with that as well. The bus driver I inquired mentioned that as well.
[Why are there 2 Q44's? One regular and one limited.]
My recollection is that all Q-44's run as limiteds whenever the Q20A/B is scheduled to run (as locals). When the Q-20's do not run, all Q-44's run as locals, i.e., there are no limiteds then.
I'll answer these questions as best as possible
1.I believe it was changed to have the buses run down the entire length of Main St. I'll say it did benefit people because more people are riding it on Main St. than its old route via 150 St & Grand Central Pkwy (I think they forgot about 150 St ;-))
2.Well, I'm not so sure they're going to get rid of the Q20B because that route was from the original Q20. They put 2 services for extra local service. Maybe other bustalkers will know for sure.
3.There's only ONE Q44. Its a limited all times except late nights, when it takes the place of Q20's from 14 Av to 168 St, Jamaica. Hope this helps.
Any extra info is appreciated. Thanx
[1 - Why was this change preformed in the first place? I remember it being a total frustration for people who lived along the Q44's old route. Has the change benefited anything?]
When the Q44 was created, Main Street did not exist south of the Grand Central Parkway; thus, it completed it journey on 150th Street. Over the decades, the lower part of Main Street was built and heavily developed; it now has several orders of magnitude more people than 150th Street ever had. Transit just took a while to catch up with a demographic reality.
The 150th Street crowd got loud during the first few months after the change, but the Main Street crowd (led by the principal of Archbishop Molloy High School) was louder.
- - - - -
[2 - I remember asking a friend, a bus driver who did has done some rounds on the Q20A, saying the B will be rid of. Any truth to that claim? Keep in mind I haven't met him in quite a while! Maybe 8 to 10 months...]
That rumor has been bandied about since the Q44/20 was restructured several years ago. Remember that such decisions are made by NYCT upper management, not by individual drivers. The ratio of weekday "A" and "B" trips (currently 1-to-1) may change, but the "B" branch is in no danger of being killed anytime soon.
- - - - -
[3 - Why are there 2 Q44's? One regular and one limited. I mean, do limiteds really do their job? Any ridership figures to make me a believer?]
The Q44 Limited span is 6:00AM-10:00PM weekdays, 7:00AM-10:00PM Saturday, and 8:00AM-10:00PM Sunday. All Q44 trips leaving Jamaica or the Bronx during those hours run limited; all other Q44 trips are local.
The Q-20 would never have been if the NYCDOT had been a little more attentive to the people making transit suggestions at the time. QSC suggested, in 1997-1998, that the Q-34 (terminating at 149th Street & Willets Point Blvd.) be changed and go across 20th Avenue and terminate either at the 20th Avenue mall or to connect with the terminal of the Q-65 off of College Point Blvd. But alas, they took so long to make a decision that the TA (reluntantly I understand) started the Q-20. QSC even took ridership figures and stated that the new Q-34 would only miss two present bus stops, that the Q-14 could have easily absorbed. This new route would still be a natural for the Q-34. The Q-34's ridership is quite poor and this would've boosted the ridership significantly. And provided an alternative for College Point residents to transfer to other venues. And the opportunity to move the Q-34 away from a neighboorhood that has campaigned for the bus to be re-routed away from Willets Point Blvd for many years.
Saw a Greyhound MCI G4500 in the news today; unfortunately, it was turned over on its side in California as someone attacked the driver. IIRC, no one was seriously hurt.
On a side note, I saw GLI No. 7017 pull into our terminal the other night. What a nice looking bus the G-Series is; I hope to see more of them in the near future. Unfortunately, that may wipe out my old favorites, the MC-12s and the A3s....
-F.
Unfortunately, 2 passengers died in the accident. The driver and one other passenger are still hospitalized. 26 others were treated and released.
CG
Crazy bastard!!!! Who does he think he is attacking the driver. I heard on the news that he was doped up. Something with drugs that got him crazy and do stupid shit. When I heard about I thought the bus was a 102DL3 or in other words D4500. Darn it, a G4500 bus. I rode one from the PABT to Newark Pennstation in June the second week on my vacation. It's a shame those 2 innocent passengers left this world and some have injuries and in critical condition.
Did security check for weapons, drugs and alcohol?
I wouldn't let some stupid idiot like him messing up my plans or ride a Greyhound bus. It is part of everyday life. Anything can happen whatever mode of transportation you take. Just pray to God and ask for you to bless you for a good trip to whatever and guide/protect you always. So it's nothing new, although us bus fans kind of get tick off when are buses are banged up or destroyed.
-Ronnie
thats secondary compared to the dastardly crime committed. it should be a fedaral crime to attack a bus driver. if the thug knew hed rot in jail he might think twice doped up or not.
The criminal knowns nothing of the law -- he was an illegal alien who came from Mexico, living in Los Angeles for a short time.
>>> it should be a fedaral crime to attack a bus driver. if the thug knew hed rot in jail he might think twice doped up or not. <<<
When someone tries to kill the person in control of a bus he is riding on which is traveling at 65 mph, I doubt very much he would be deterred by the thought that his action might lead to incarceration in a federal prison rather than a state prison.
Tom
<<>>
Yeah, right!! Greyhound stops at all these podunk towns on their routes with the bus stations being in restaurants, supermarkets, unstaffed Amtrak stations, bus benches along the highway, etc. Where they getting "security" from???
As for the bus, there were photos of it being righted by a tow truck on the local news out here in California. From the looks, it won't be out of service too long. Very minor damage to the left side, the left front corner is a little banged up. It's not a total loss. There have been many Greyhound wrecks out here that make the news, and the buses always seem to get fixed (I remember one that rear-ended a truckload of tomatoes -- bus number was easily discernable in the news photo -- saw the bus on the road a couple months later). I think the only way to destroy one is have it on a bridge when a ship hits it, the bridge collapses, and the bus sinks....as in Tampa a few years back.
Yow! Were there any survivors on the Tampa bus? Also, while it is good to hear the CA bus will be operable, I only wish I could say the same for those two passengers and the driver.
-F.
I'm not sure when that Tampa incident happened...the 1980's??
I know the fatality count was very high....unfortunately, with the suddenness of the incident (happened in night time fog, absolutely no way for the driver to have seen it coming...), nobody had time to react.
It was on the Sunshine Skyway, perhaps someone can fill in details?
>>> Where they getting "security" from??? <<<
I agree with you that screening of passengers is not realistic, beyond the eyeballing that the driver already does with the passengers when they board. I have ridden that particular route, and have seen passengers walk forward while the bus is traveling to ask the driver a question. I wonder if the idea of keeping the front seats free of passengers did not backfire to some degree, since it meant any potential help for the driver was further away when an attack occurred.
About the only security that could be effective is to keep the passengers and the driver apart by a physical barrier. The Sheriff and Police departments do it when transporting their passengers, but I doubt that a locked cage would be acceptable to the general riding public or fit the image Greyhound is trying to project.
The threat of attack is real to all bus operators, not just those driving over the highways. I was rather impressed with the security that the San Francisco Muni is placing in their buses. The operator's area is enclosed with a waist high metal enclosure, with a door, and above that plexiglass around behind the seat, and a plexiglass door that can be closed with a small opening large enough to hand transfers through. I doubt that the plexiglass is thick enough to be bulletproof, but it would protect the operator from a sudden punch or stabbing.
The operators on each of the buses I rode on had the plexiglass doors open, but I guess on the owl runs they close them up and look like liquor store clerks in the ‘hood.
Tom
"Image"?!? Hell, I ALREADY feel like a prisoner when I ride Greyhound! The service is lousy these days. Drivers rarely make it on time, the 800 number reps are cross, and the guys at the Information booths usually come off as slanderous and completely rude. To sum up, their passengers are treated as knaves. I think a police-style cage would bring the whole experience full-circle!
-F.
ahem
not EVERYONE that works for GLI are completely rude. Most of the GLI drivers I know have good records for making it on time.
GLID4500
>>> I ALREADY feel like a prisoner when I ride Greyhound! The service is lousy these days <<<
Maybe it is a regional thing. Here in California the few times I have ridden Greyhound the buses have been clean and on time and the drivers have been courteous. The only real deterioration I have noticed since the heyday of Greyhound is the slum conditions of their terminals and reduced quality of the places to eat in the terminals and at meal stops on the road.
Tom
yes i agree with Tom on this one.
first-out here in california ... especially in the Los Angeles area, the rush hour traffic on ALL freeways can be a pain in the butt, making everythihng delayed.
the food at the terminals ... well ... err ... i think the food at USC Univ Hospital in Lincoln Heights is much better than the food at the L.A. Terminal or at ANY greyhound terminal. Usually just eat fast food.
Eddie A
They should have a LOT more security at Greyhound; even if it drives fares up, rider safety is most important. Metal detectors...ANYTHING.
-F.
Oh my goodness; that's horrible. I did not realize two passengers perished and the driver was in a bad shape. I will keep their families in my prayers.
-F.
On our local news last night, there was a feature on jaywalking at the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg. Due to an influx of it around heavy traffic areas, law enforcement has cracked down on it and is imposing fines of up to $70 per offender.
I am glad they are doing something about this; not only is it a pain for those in cars, but it is most frequent around buses. When I drove for their TA, I could barely get through, and it would take me about 10 to 15 minutes to go from one block to the next because they just didn't care about 40 feet of Flxible that needed to stay on time! Also, a student unfortunately got killed doing this last year...walking out in front of a car outside of a crosswalk.
During the story, BT's New Flyer LFs were shown passing through all over the campus; in fact, one was used as a backdrop for a VT official who spoke out about the problem for the anchor.
-F.
Saw a NYCTA RTS in this commercial for Quick Dissolving Tide; first, a front shot of the bus as a backdrop for a pregnant woman, who claims that she hopes to go from riding one to driving around in a minivan (sheesh). As she says this, a great side shot is shown of the coach, and her dream vehicle pulls up beside it...yup, you guessed it, the Soccer Mom Special. How nice of her to dog the TA!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I think I saw that ad, too. I must have been hearing things because I thought she was complaining about being big from the pregnancy and saying that next to a bus, she was the size of a minivan. LOL
Hmm...too funny! Well, if she said she was the size if that RTS, in either case, they must be fun to ride...LOL!
Saw a DL3 roll out of the station today with a different twist; where the red, white, and blue stripe is normally white, it was gold. Also, it read "TRAVEL SERVICES" on the side with no GLI lettering, just small dogs. I assume this is one used for charter service?
-F.
Before I begin..let me again thank those who have helped me in the past get patches for my collection that of course are unavailiable here in the Midwest where I live. Over the past few years, I have collected a number of the modern badges that the New York City Subway Conductors or Surface Transit Drivers wear on their uniform sleeve. It looks like that it is a leather type holder that holds the badge in place while it is being worn. I would prefer to have them in my display case with a backing; and the holder is the answer I'm looking for!
I'll pay for the items, and I'll need around 4 of them. Can anyone out there help? Those of you who work for the MTA on Bus or Rapid Transit Divisions pretty much know exactly what I'm looking for. Hope you can help...and God Bless! :^)
From The South Shores Of Lake Michigan,Southeast Of Chicago...God Bless America & New York City! William C. Mitchell
Subway conductors wear their badge on their hat, never on the sleeve. Only b/o's wear the badge on a badge holder. It's attached to a cloth loop on the right shoulder of their uniform shirt. Look up Meyer Uniform, Flatbush Ave. in Brooklyn, they are a large distributor of uniforms, etc.
Try this link: http://www.voy.com/8680/15.html
4309 was on the 35 this morning and now sports a bike rack in addition to its Balios sign. This morning, it was doing something I had never seen before. It would say:
35 NAYLOR RD
35 STATION
(blank)
and then start over. The side sign did this too and the 35 on the back just flashed on and off. I got pictures of it although they are on the film camera. Other pictures of 4309 are already on my website at www.orenstransitpage.com. Also, I saw 9658 on the T2 with a rack as well.
I'm not sure, but I think its the B42. When I was on that route it took only 10 minutes to get from Rockaway Pkwy. Station to Canarsie Pier. I haven't been on the B2, Q15, or Q19B yet. How long do they take?
And, Do not list the Q69, because its more like a shuttle than a route. It only exists for a small part of the day.
Lets try to make this interesting. By no means am I trying to start arguements, or to annoy people(coughBUSFANcough). Post without having this become a flame war.
Thank you.
-Jay
Well, you have a point about the B42 being short...it is kinda short...so are the following routes:
B2, Q69 (though u don't consider it a bus route), Q42 (bleh, it's not too short), S60, B74,...that's it...I think
Carlton
Cleanairbus
If I'm correct, the B74 is the shortest route in NYC.
Now here's a real challenge: Name the shortest route at SEPTA, NJT, and WMATA. I don`t have the answer so let's see if you bus fans elsewhere can get these questions answered.
I remember that for NJT the shortest route was the 766,Mall Link route.But now that they discontinued that route,I really don't know if there is a short bus route.
What about shortest LI Bus route? I think the N62 in Freeport comes to mind, as well as Nassau Hub shuttle (RF-Source runs). The N57 and N58 in Great Neck are pretty short too.
The shortest LIB route is right up near you. The N28, which is only 8 minutes in one direction and 10 in the other.
Of course, that's a rush hour only line. For full time lines, the shortest (time-wise) are the N58 (17 minutes most trips, 20 for the extended trips) and the N14 (20 minutes scheduled all trips -- but from experience it usually takes 15 or so).
CG
NJ Transit's #62 route comes to mind. Although, the route in certain time slots is 35 minutes to 2 hrs.long one-way using Flxible METRO "Ds", but when it comes to night owl service it goes to Newark International Airport. The trip from Penn Station to the airport is about 20 minutes. Ofcourse, there are certain times in daylight it ends service to the airport.
-Ronnie
Correct me if I'm wrong, but SEPTA has a couple of short routes. The dreaded "SPREE" route is one of them. Another is the 6 bus. The run fron Broad and Olney to Cheltenham and Ogontz is about 17 to 20 minutes during rush hours, but the traffic on this line is so intense, it has to use artics. Does any other SEPTA bus-philes know of any other shorties in the SEPTA system?
In somewhat numerical order, most of these routes take 25 minutes or less; first within Philadelphia:
* The 8 Express between Frankford and Olney
* The 29 trackless along Tasker and Morris
* The 46, which operates along 60 St
* The 59 Castor trackless (presently busing)
* The 63 Christian-Catharine crosstown
* The 68 between Broad & Oregon and Eastwick/UPS Air Hub
* The 73 between Frankford and Westmoreland Loop via Bridge and Richmond
* The 79 trackless along Snyder
In the suburbs:
* The 92 between West Chester and Exton Mall takes about 20-25 minutes depending on traffic near the mall
* The 106 to Ardmore via Haverford Rd
* The 107 to Clifton Hts via Marshall and Burmont Rds
* The 201 between Ft Washington Rail Station and Ft Washington Office Center
* The 203 between Woodbourne Rail Station and Bucks County Office Park via Oxford Valley Mall
* The 206 between Paoli Rail Station and Great Valley
* The 208 between Strafford Rail Station and Chesterbrook
* The 304 between Morrell Park and Bristol Rail Station
* The 305 between Darby and Philadelphia International Airport
* The 311 Commonwealth Breeze between Willow Grove Park Mall and Commonwealth Corporate Center in Horsham Twp
35 is a preety short route
The 35 used to be the shortest route, especially when it was designated as Route "Z". Only in the olden days it ran to Broad & Erie.
More recently, it just looped in Roxborough.
Now it runs from the Wissahicken Transfer center to Andorra. I don't know what the mileage is.
Chuck Greene
Oh yeah forgot about that one, the N28!
I think a couple of the shortest runs for WMATA are the 1F when it only runs from Ballston to Seven Corners (less than 15 minutes) and the N22 that runs from Navy Yard to Union Station.
The S95 has got to be one of the shortest (Mid Pike Plaza to White Flint Metro) WMATA routes. It is a rush hour only shuttle due to construction at Grosvenor. The N22 and some of the Anacostia routes come to mind. Also, the E6 is on the short side (less than 20 minutes one way).
I think the shortest Ride-On route is the 25 or 93. The longest are probably the 46, 47, 70, 75, and 90. This does not include the 28, or 92.
There used to be a Ride On route 40 that ran from the Wheaton Station across the street to Wheaton Plaza as well. It used to run really often, but nobody was taking it. I think something still goes over there once in awhile though.
I think it ran every half hour or so, at least towards the end. I thought the 40 was the Glenmont to White Flint route, replaced by the C8. The Wheaton Plaza service is now operated by the 9.
Yeah, the 40 existed as the Wheaton Plaza/Wheaton Metro Station shuttle then discontinued and recreated as the Glenmont/White Flint route.
I am sure I have an old schedule for it somewhere, I just don't exactly want to go through my whole collection to find it, even though the Ride-On schedules are somewhat more organized than some of the others.
Haha, yeah, I understand. I have a big bin full of schedules,although, they aren't in any order. Its definitely not worth going through them to find it!!
The shuttles that run from the Springfield Metro Station are pretty short. They just go from the station to the mall and back, mostly taking a couple of minutes.
How long a distance is that? I thought of those but figured the distance between Mid-Pike Plaza and the White Flint Metro is shorter although I am not sure where at Mid-Pike Plaza the shuttle bus stop is. If it is where all the Priority One cutaway buses park, then we can count it as two blocks since that is Montrose Road. If it closer to Old Georgetown Road, then it is one.
It's about a block and a half from the station to the mall, but the way Springfield Metro is configured, the bus has to go a longer way to get out than the White Flint Station so it is about the same, maybe a little bit longer, on a couple of occasions, I have seen one bus pull off, and then about five minutes later, the same bus comes back to the station.
I just remembered one that was even shorter, but is no longer running. They ran this shuttle while they were building a parking garage at the Vienna station. This one came back a couple of minutes, if that long, later. It went to a parking lot further down the way from Vienna. I believe it went to a shopping center further down, a shorter way than the White Flint/Mid Pike Plaza shuttle, and the Springfield shuttles.
I remember that. It was the V1 and used the 30 foot Metro-Bs designated for the 14T and 14W.
B39 has all of 4 bus stops
The B39 is very short. If the Wilie B. is not jammed up with cars, then I would say it takes about 8 minutes(maybe less).
My guess is the B39 with the B42 being a close second. Over at OA I'd say the Bx13.
Wayne
>>>Over at OA I'd say the Bx13.
Hmm...don't you think the Bx18 (Morris Heights-Morrisania) is a bit shorter? I would think so...the Bx13 has a great amount of time on Ogden Avenue and on to W 181 St in Washington Heights...The Bx18 spends at least 10 minutes on Macombs Rd and about 2-3 minutes each on E 170th St and W Tremont Av.
Cleanairbus
Look into the depot right in your own backyard: the B39.
Also, its the only short route FP.
Also, its the only short route in FP
b31 has 12 minutes running time off peak
The B-2 is probably the "longest" short bus route in Brooklyn. It takes about 25 minutes to go a mile and a half, and that's on a "lazy' Sunday afternoon, with no school kids or commuters. Even discounting passengers boarding and disembarking, there are 15 traffic lights between East 16th Street and Kings Plaza, and some of those favor the opposing thorofare (e.g. Ocean Av, Nostrand Av) as well. In the early 70's, when I first rode the B-2, there was only maybe 7 or 8 traffic lights along the route.
The B2 can take a lot of time loading at E 16th, can get held up at Ocean, has a light on E 23 b/c of the school, a light at Bedford, a light at Nostrand, a light at Gerritsen, a light back onto Ave R, though you can turn right on red at this point, a light at Marine Pkwy, a light at E 36 and R, E 36 and Fillmore, E36 and S, and on every avenue on Flatbush, including the U-turn light.
You forgot about the lights at East 16th and Ave R, and East 18th and Ave R!
and the stop sign at e 36 street and r
Isn't that a light?
3 WAY STOP SIGN AT E33 AND R
Yeah that's new, and is there one on E 21 and R? I don't remember.
no stop sign there.
Brooklyn-B31
Queens-Q42
Staten Island-S60
Manhattan-M35
Bronx-?
Bx 14 ?
I would be guessing the Bx33
I would guess the Bx18...the Bx14 goes from Parkchester all the way over to Country Club...the Bx33 goes a long way and takes a while on W 135th Street and has a good stretch on E 138th St...(Bx33 is not a bad guess)
Cleanairbus
Everybody says the S60!! I say the S42. The s60 goes in two loops.
I looked at my Staten Island bus map and I say the lengths of the S42 & S60 are about the same(excluding part time S42 service to Forest Av.)
The B39 and B77 are short routes also.
BTW, did they come out with new bus maps for each borough yet?(I know its a little off topic but it should of been out if it wasn't already)
Any info is appreciated. Thanx
How about the M 18? That is short. It runs from 110 St to 168 St
yeah thats true,but it's a 30min trip.The Q5 and 85 from Jamaica Center-GreenAcres Mall is about a 35min trip more or less yet they don't look like they're short routes when you look at them.
Well, the M18 is short but the M35 is shorter(if you're talking about route length).
If you're including crosstown buses in Manhattan, the M27 is the shortest crosstown route.
sorry,not yet. The new schedule for the B47,B68(to Stillwell Av) and B13 did though.
I was doing a run on Sunrise Highway in my bus and saw LIB Orion #606 on the median. Apparently it must have broken down or something. I guess he was going out to a LIRR shuttle post and didn't make it. I notice alot of 600's doing the LIRR shuttle on the Montauk Branch. That's all I have for now. I just though I could share that with the group.
Dave
Broke down heh! That'll be some trip for the "tinker truck" or a tow!
Looks like our LIRR riders out on the east end are gettin a taste of what we LI Bus riders go through. :-0
John, were you there in Mastic and did you eyewitness the situation? Another unfounded remark about LI Bus. You were not there. You don't know why that bus was on the median. Yes, perhaps it was disabled. And what gave you the audacity to say that, if this bus was disabled, it would require a tow truck all the way back to the garage? Most road calls result in the bus returning to service after a minor problem has been corrected. LI Bus has very competent mechanics and while a tow job is sometimes necessary, you weren't there, don't know what happened, and have no right to make judgment calls. But do you know for sure? It is possible the bus was told to wait there for its next assignment. Possibly the driver was taking a break and found this to be ta safe place to park. Why are you comparing the LIRR with LI Bus? LI Bus was providing a substitute service for the LIRR so the railroad could work on its tracks undisturbed; this allows the job to be completed more quickly. Think before you speak.....
Today, as I was driving to work, I spotted something interesting on a New Flyer, it looks like they have two wheelchair entrances. I spotted a second wheelchair lamp light on the side of 2364 as I was stuck in traffic. When I got home, I rechecked WMATA's description of their New Flyers and it didn't mention it, only they had two positions for wheelchairs. I need to check if the Orion VIs have both a wheelchair ramp in the back as well.
All that i can said is WOW!!! That Q65A is non stop at rush hour! but everthing went well. I had no problems with the bus or with the passengers. I kept the bus on time. And the road supervisor said i did ok for my first day on the road. Today iam on report. Thank you to all you bus talker for your support!!!....John QSC# 938
Hey, congratulations and I'm glad you enjoy the QSC route! Keep up the good work!
Glad your first day went well.
I don't know if this applies to Buses, but in the subway you are respected when you show how you handle things when they go wrong. One day, things will go wrong for you on the job. Remember to keep your grace (and your cool) when this day first pops up on you (and it will).
Good work. I hope to see you on the Q65 as I take that often.
Since your part of QSC, can you explain why the route you operated is called Q65A in the first place? It nowhere runs the route that the Q65 does!
When bus routes were approved by the City of New York via the Board of Estimate and the Bureau of Franchises instead of requesting a new franchise which could take time it was easier to extend service by using existing franchises. Thats how the A's lines were started etc.
Later on they chnaged the number to a different route in Brooklyn,Bronx and Staten Island. For some reason it was not done in Queens except for the TA which changed all of its A routes etc by 1989 or 1990.
BTW-The reason the TA designates the Q 20 as a A or B and the M -14 as an A or C or D is to designate the differnce in the route path today.
Thank You
Ok, thanks for the history though I still hold the thought that the Q65A is improperly named!
My aunt, who is claustrophobic & can't take the subway, wants to come see my apartment in Park Slope on Sunday. How can I direct her?
Thanks so much to anyone who can offer me any help on this.
The only local bus route that operates between Brooklyn and Manhattan on weekends is B39/Williamsburg Bridge. There are two express bus routes, X27 and X28, but their first stops in Brooklyn are in Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights, respectively.
The best thing to do would be to call NYCT Travel Information at 718-330-1234. It's available 24 hours a day. Give the agent specifics as to starting and ending locations, specify bus-only, and the agent will be able to provide directions.
David
(My aunt, who is claustrophobic & can't take the subway, wants to come see my apartment in Park Slope on Sunday. How can I direct her? )
I can't think of an transit option, but if you can afford an apartment in Park Slope perhaps you should spring for a taxi to Brooklyn and car service back. I'm partial to Brownstone Car Service myself.
Everyone has a crazy aunt. Mine won't use any mass transit. She has a car, but will not drive through tunnels. So she's stuck with the Triboro and the BQE, and after a couple of traffic filled trips, she hasn't been back. Then again, with all that has happened (and almost happened), perhaps she isn't crazy.
Well here is a shot....
Well I don't know point of origen or terminal so here I go
Any crosstown bus to (or at) 2av take M 15
xfer at Delancy St/ Allen St for B 39
xfer W'burg Br Plz for B 44 (I would have say walk to Degges St for B 61 but that may be a problem)
xfer at Flushing Av/ Lee St for B 57
xfer at Jay St/ at any stop for B 67 (7 Av) or B 75 (9 St) (they are more frequent)
Take either bus to Park Slope.
If you need 5 Av take B 67 or B 41 local at Livengston St (excuse spelling) to 5 Av and xfer for B 63
I hope this helps.
B49 LTD
Your aunt can take the X27 to it's last stop at Shore Rd & 4th Avenue, where she can then transfer to the B63 for the ride back up 5th Avenue to Park Slope. This will take forever but it is only one change of buses.
Before Quill opened in 1998, which Depots did the routes that currently run there run out of? Did they run out of Hudson Pier, or 54th street, or anywhere else?
B63Mike
...those and Amsterdam.
Wayne
Before Michael J. Quill opened, here was the run down:
M10, M30, M72, M98 - Manhattanville
M20 - NEW (started at Quill)
M23, M42 - Hudson
M27, M50 - 126th St
M79 - Amsterdam
M86, M96, M102, M106, X90, X92 - OLD 100th St
THIS WAS BEFORE MARCH 29, 1998:
Amsterdam:
M79, M104, M116 (now with 126th St)
100th St:
M35 (now with 126th St), M86, M96, M101 (now with Manahattanville), M102, M103 (now with Manhattanville), M106, X90, X92
Hudson:
M6, M8, M9, M11 (split - Manhattanville), M14 (A,C,D), *M16, M21, M22, M23, *M34, M42, Q32
* - M16 and M34 were with Quill but then went back to Hudson. I believe they swapped it for the M23 which became a Quill route.
Manhattanville:
M3, M4, M5, M18, M30, M57, M72, M98
Mother Clara Hale:
M1, M2, M7, M60, Bx33
WALNUT (closed when Quill opened):
Bx4, Bx5, Bx6, Bx11, Bx13, Bx15, Bx17, Bx19, Bx21, Bx27, Bx32, Bx35, Bx36 (Most except for Bx11, Bx13, Bx32, Bx35, Bx36 went to Kingsbridge, Bx4, Bx5, Bx17, Bx27 went to Gun Hill, Bx6, Bx15 went to Amsterdam - which became a Bronx division depot and Bx19 znd Bx21 went to Mother Clara Hale.)
As you can see, the opening of Quill depot was significant because two depots closed on the same day (one for reconstruction - 100th St and Walnut was closed for good). This was a MaBSTOA thing so it was a lot to get. It took me a month to realize what the hell was going on. See bus #8649 which had been with the 100th St was on the M16? (A Hudson route) Whoa! I could not focus on my school work at aruch College! Too much drama! I remember seeing buses #8801 and #8803 on the M2...WHAT! Then I found out that Quill opened. I went to the 100th St depot and I asked the security guard. Of course, he would not tell me where the buses went (I knew that) so I went to the Express Bus Depot (layover for SI and Brooklyn express buses) and well...it was West Side (now Quill) depot! However, to my observations...the express buses still rest at Quill. Anyways, to make this easy...almost all the buses from 100th St and Amsterdam were combined to form the roster of Quill. About half of those buses are still there. The other half retired or were shipped to other depots. I hope that helps!
I do rember haveing 5201 on the M23 back about the year 2000 before Artics came to the M23 and M23 went to Quill. I also had a 84xx RTS(I think) on the M23 too. That was the only time I rode a RTS on M23
I've been trying to find out more of what happened, but in NE DC, a bus and two cars were involved in an accident that sent the bus into a church. One person was seriously injured. It looks like from one story I read, the two cars involved in this accident had just had their own accident, and one car sped away with the other chasing after him. A real shame here. The bus was an Orion II, so that's no loss, but the poor people caught in the middle of all this. Building inspectors were out checking the stability of the church as well. I don't know if less people would have been injured in a larger bus, or not, or if the driver would have been able to keep it from going off the road.
Don't see it on WMATA's website, most likely will see it on the news and in tomorrow's Wash. Post. Brings to mind two other bus accidents, both caused by stupid drivers, running the buses off of the road. The first one was when a car making an illegal u-turn ran 8952, off of the road, hitting a tree. I can't remember if anyone was killed, but there were alot of injures, that bus was smashed, and I don't think that bus was repaired, because it was smashed so badly. The other was 5206?, only about a couple of months in service, ran off of the road and into a building off of 7TH Street. Only the bus driver was injured, I think there was noone else on the bus, this bus was repaired, as it wasn't damaged badly.
I found some info on the Post website and on NBC4.com. Saw a little more tonight on the news as well. The bus just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. It was 3740 on the H6 on its way to Brookland Station.
I remember that accident with the artic on 7th St. One story I read at the time was that it hit right near someone's bedroom and they ended up on top of the bus!!!
The amount of stupidity out there where people are in such a hurry that they'd put a bus load of people in jeopardy is amazing. I stay clear away from buses the best I can and try to let them into traffic if its safe to do so.
Yea, saw that accident on tv, just now. Nice to hear noone was seriously injured. I also try to stay clear of buses. I carefully look to see if the bus is pulling off before passing it and if I am behind a turning bus I just wait and follow it when it turns. The crash with the artic, I know one can sit on one, but sleeping on top of one might be a problem. My mother also has told me of impatient drivers who turn in front of buses pulling off, nearly causing an accident.
While visiting Harrisburg, PA recently (9/12/02) I noticed at the garage of Capitol Area Transit (the local bus agency there) several freshly painted RTSes that carried the NYC-style round emergency lights on both sides of the front destination sign. The buses were all numbered in the 8500's (CAT numbers their buses by year, so I assume that they were 1985 models)& the paint scheme appeared to be a basic white with blue stripe-something like a simpler version of the NYCT livery. Can any BusTalker share any insight on whether these RTSes were indeed ex-NY & if so, how did they end up in Harrisburg?
Thanks! Michael Buglak, Collegeville, PA
According to the Urban Transit Club web site bus roster, the following NYCT RTS's have been sold to CAT - Harrisburg, PA: 1810, 1846, 3415, 3420, 3429, 3569, 3688, 3811, 3829, 3856, 3920, 4003, 4103.
Nice ride today on Q53,Q35 and B100. Nothing eventful, but did see GBL Orion V#5542 not painted yet. IS this bus due to get painted yet? She's still white all over. And what is the deal with Orion V #5503 at GBL? The wrap on one side is gone and the other looks like it is being removed by hand. whats the deal?
Q53-#3013-Orion V-CNG
Q35-#658-GMC RTSII-04(ex command bus, it think)
B100-#368-GMC RTS II-04
I am planning Suffolk transit and Staten Island Bus tRips on Friday and Monday. with Suffolk, S40 to S45 to S54 and Monday exploring Staten Island via Yukon Depot. Hopefully i will bring a report on Monday night of my sightings.
Lately I have seen an influx of MC-12s still in service, mostly still running the 6V92 (thankfully), at least here in Roanoke. Just today, I saw 2079 and 3037, heading towards DC and Richmond, respectively. For the longest time, you saw nothing but DL3s pass through here, especially those that read "DALLAS" on the destination sign. Also, G4500s are being seen a little more often these days, so that's two of my favorites by GLI that are making more rounds.
-F.
LOADS of MC-12's out here in California as well. The number ranges seem to be from the 1800's up to 3000's, so there are LOADS.
Lately a lot of the older 15-16-1700 series 102A3's have been running around out here as well. The other day I drove from San Jose to Tustin (my home) and alogn I-5 saw at least five of them in the six hour trip (along with many MC-12's and G's.)
Yeah...MC-12s and G's are rampant all of a sudden. Most all the 12s here are the 2xxx series, usually 2600s. What vintage are those?
-F.
They're plenty of MC-12's around here. On my trips to/from NYC I see lots of them even though it's pretty much a mixed bag. MC-12, 102D3, 102DL3, G41/4500 and even the occasional 102A3.
Wayne
Wayne, those A3s sure are rare; are those the ones being retired for G-Series coaches? I thought they were newer than the MC-12s? You RARELY see them these days. I think they look better than the 12, hat with the wraparound headlights. The MC-12 configuration looks more like a New Flyer than an MCI..never got into that out-to-the-corners headlight bezel, just doesn't look natural.
-F.
Fred,
Yes, Greyhounds 102A3's are on their way out. They are indeed older than the 12's. I think those A3's came in the late 1980's. The MC-12's went into production around 1991/2. I think with the MC-12 Greyhound just wanted an updated (and utilitarian) bus to the MC-9 which was sooooo popular proved to be a major workhorse.
Wayne
Really? No kidding! Those 12s look older than the A3s. I assume the DL3 is what supplanted the latter in the product line? The two are identical up front. And when did the MC-12 end production?
-F.
Remember the MC-12 were built exclusively for Greyhound. I'm assuming MC-12 production ended in 1995/6 because Greyhound started taking delivery 102D3's in 1996. I agree... The 12's do look older than the A3's - probably because the 12's look nearly identical to the MC-9.
My understanding was that instead of the 102A3 and C3 which many tour operators were buying - Greyhound wanted a no-frills (lower cost), workhorse like the MC-9's proved to be - and presto the MC-12 showed up. I've ridden plenty of 12's and I like them and I do think they're not going away anytime soon. What's really interesting is that... I have a buddy that worked for Academy Tours in the early to mid 90's. He had a source that obviously wasn't well-informed about buses. They were under the impression that the MC-12's (which were new at the time) were "reconditioned" 9's and not new buses. When I heard this.... I just had to shake my head because both fellas were incredibly opinionated and for some unknown reason Anti-Greyhound. In the meantime I had already read the Bus World article they had done on the first batch of MC-12's that Greyhound were in the process of receiving.
Wayne
Wayne
Those who admire our MC12s, get photos. Because by 2004, we dont know the future of these MC12s.
By 2004, GLI's fleet must be 100% compliant
In addition, some MC12s were built for the Immigration Naturalization Sservice down here in Southern California too. GLI was the huge buyer. Also, GLI #2454-2463 were the first MC12s to be tested with DDS50 engines and larger fuel tanks
Eddie A
the production of the MC12 for GLI ended in 1998. GLI # 3176 was the last one to be delivered.
GLID4500
The last bus trip I took to Baltimore, it was kind of whimpy, so I decided to take a real bus trip in Baltimore.
The day started out about 8:10, catching The Bus 62898, a Gillig Phantom 35', on the 21 route to New Carrolton. At New Carrolton, I had planned and caught Thomas SLF 35', on The Bus's 15X. This bus has some get up and go for a 35' foot low floor bus with a Cummins B5.9 engine. Also this has something I have never seen on a low floor bus. They were able to put two seats over the wheel well, even though they split them around the wheel well. I got to Greenbelt and caught the B30 to BWI Business District to catch Baltimore MTA route 17.
For being in Flxible City, the buses I caught in Baltimore were overwhemingly NABI and of course the first Baltimore bus I caught was NABI 9963, on the 17 route going to the Patapsco Light Rail Station.
I got to Patapsco and GREAT GOLLY MOLLY!, I am about to catch a Flxible on the 51 (Flxible E), going to Roger's Avenue Subway Station. I have got to tell you the story of this bus and this route. First of all this bus looks like crap, from the outside to the inside. Of all of the Flxibles I have seen, I have never seen one in this bad of shape. As the bus started its run and ran the route, I could see why this bus is in the condition its in. If one has fillings, or new hair plugs WARNING!!, DON'T RIDE THIS ROUTE! I probably know what an earthquake feels like, this bus rattled and shaked, because the road is so tore up. Oh by the way this bus was a 40' Flxible Metro, bus number 9536. According to reports, these Flxibles were among the last to be delivered before Flxible shuttered its doors.
I got to Rogers Avenue, after the shake rattle and roll show, I got NABI (Ikarus back then) 60', 9509, on the 91 to Downtown. This bus may look the same on the outside to WMATA's, but on the inside, its a whole new story. First of all these buses have some unusal seats. They are cushioned, but they are mostly made of cloth and are three toned. Second the seating arrangement is a little different in that there are is a three seat side bench in the front of the bus near the end of the front half, whereas WMATA's NABIs have them in the front of the front cab, and at the accordian. Last,even the windows are different, they don't look like the newer NABIs, in that they are a little more bigger. Got to downtown and ate lunch and gathered more bus schedules for future trips.
After the lunch break, I caught another NABI, this time 9944 on the 7, going to Mondawmin Mall. A note that I didn't mentioned in the last Baltimore bus post is that mostly all of their buses have cameras on the inside, especially the newer buses. At Mondawmin, caught Flxible B? 7037, 40' on the 16 going to Patapsco. I think this bus goes by every school in Baltimore because it seems that almost every stop it came to, there were kids getting off of school getting on this bus. Also a shock, is that this was the first Flxible Metro I have ridden that doesn't have a stop request sign. I got to Patapsco, where I caught another 40' Flxible, 8957 (Flxible B), going back to BWI Business District. This bus also doesn't have a stop request sign, I will find out when Baltimore got Flxibles with stop request signs. I thought when I got on the B30, going back to Greenbelt, that it was going to be a ho-hum ride, boy I was wrong.
The first strange event came when at BWI, I saw Orion 6, with outside camera, there and wondered why is this bus here. Our bus, 4393 by the way, followed it onto the B-W Parkway, passed it and beat it to Greenbelt, it came a couple of minutes later. If you thought that was strange, wait. At Greenbelt, I spotted 4395, another B30 bus running on the 87. But wait the plot thickens. 2060 now was on the B30 going back to BWI, it must have shocked the passengers, I was shocked, to see a non-B30 bus on their route. Can anyone explain this one to me. After that excitement, caught 4093 to Beltway Plaza, to take a break (C2-40' Flxible E) and caught another C2, this time it was 4343 (40' Orion V) back to Greenbelt. Caught the 15X, again 63032, 35' Thomas SLF, back to New Carrolton. Took a pic of it at Greenbelt and went to catch the F14 home. I saw 9364 with no "metrobus" in the front of the bus and finally caught 9774 (40'-Flxible E), with a flag on the side destination sign, to home. A very interesting day I would say, and I am planning to go back, and go back often, as I want to ride the remaining 8500s and the 8600s before they are replaced by the Neoplans, due to come later this year or early next year.
What a day you had!!! I was on 4390 two Sundays ago on the B30. I could have sworn 4390-4392 or at least 4391 didn't have the high back seats. They were old Four Mile Run buses, but 4390 had the luggage racks and all. It got packed leaving Greenbelt. Everyone had a seat, but it was a crowded run. A coworker of mine told me that during heavy travel periods, there will be a second B30 standing by to handle the overflow as he saw to B30's running back to back around the 4th of July or so.
You'd think 2060 would swap to run the 87 and give 4395 over to the B30. I haven't seen it enough to know of any other buses other than the 4390's to run that route. Where did all the luggage go? That must have been a fun run.
I was on one Baltimore bus while I was up there last week. I've already forgotten the number, but it was an 8800 on the 31 from the B and O RR museum to the Inner Harbor area. I had already spent the whole day and the day before walking all over that city and was ready for a bus ride!
On another note, I saw 9309 coming through Ballston. It went by so quick that I didn't see if it was a Four Mile Run, Arlington or Royal route.
I also saw that "The Bus" has a new route, 18, running from Langley Park to Addison Road, via PG Plaza and Cheverly. I wonder if this is going to eventually take the place of the F8?
WOW!!, I didn't know that route was going to be that long. They talked about it on The Bus's website, but I thought they were only going to run from PG Plaza to Langley Park and not going all the way to Addison Road. I hope they aren't replacing the F8. They could use all of the routes they could get. There are about four buses routes (two WMATA and two The Bus), that go from the New Carrolton Station to the Greenbelt Station. The R12 is the most popular route, it is almost always full, the T16 has a good ridership number, The Bus's 16 is a local route with ok ridership and the 15X is an express route, serving only NASA and the Greenbelt Station, with good ridership, from the rides on it today. I wonder what kind of buses they will use on this route. The length of this route seems to warrant heavy duty buses, ala maybe the SLF 35' to maybe something bigger. This route shouldn't have a whimpy vanbus on it.
Yeah, I was surprised to see the length of that route too. When I was on the J4 last week, I saw the bus stops posted along University Blvd., but I had no idea where it was going from there. It looks like it is a bit different than the F8, so hopefully, it is only supplemental service and not replacement service. Now that they have the F8 running every hour on Sundays instead of every 2, its now a halfway real route!
That R12 does get packed. I was on it a few years ago in the AM and it was SRO.
I saw some The Bus bus stops along Annapolis Road between Landover Road and Kenilworth Avenue. I wonder why WMATA didn't take this route? I know Landover has tons o' space, it can fit 100 or more buses.
Yeah...the SLF is neat. I HATE cutaway van "buses"...they suck!
-F.
I wish they would replace all of those van buses with SLFs or at least mix them up with either New Flyers, or if they want to stick with the medium duty vehicles, El Dorados. Also they should along with those buses tossed out, they should junk them DAMN Champions along with them.
I'll drink to ALL of that. Pepsi Blue, anyone? :)
-F.
I thought they would have done that, but I guess since 4395 was already loaded, and loaded big time, it would have ticked the riders off having to unload and reload.
Wow...what a bus day you had. Sad to hear about the Flx Metro in such bad shape....I love those and they are the toast of Baltimore. Wonder why they don't run them as often anymore?
-F.
I guess they want to run the newer buses more often, even though the Flxibles are still well represented, but my luck I kept getting NABIs.
I have driven in Baltimore for years and thanks to the B30, I now can ride them.
I hear that happens in DC too...both towns, here i come!
-F.
Hey W.E.S.,
Glad to see you got in a pretty diverse itinerary. Sounds like it would have been a fun trip - and yes the 16 line does catch hell in the afterschool hours - The only thing worse would have been the PM 51 line! I know - I've driven it!
As to the STOP REQUESTED signs, they debuted on the 9200's. It was not until the 9500's when they were delivered as SINGLE RING stop requested signs, thus the 9200s and 9400s can be rung a million times even when the stop light is on.
The 51 is bumpy, but by no means the worst route - it's worst part is crossing that bridge over CSX tracks just after coming off the Russell to Monroe Cloverleaf. As to the 9500's, they are pretty shabby - it seems that they were not put together all that tightly to begin with, the old 8700's and 7000's seem to be the tightest set of all the Metros.
And FYI, Northwest and Kirk tend to have the shabbiest equipment. 9536 has always been a child of Northwest division, so it comes as little suprise.
If you get up here before June, feel free to catch me on the 20 or 23 lines - IF YOU DARE!!!
Yea, I saw that line-up waiting to catch the 51 at Mondawmin. On top of that the bus was hot, lucky everyone was "Sure"-LOL- and there weren't anyone malordourous.
It sad to hear that those buses were not built the typical Flxible way. WMATA's 4000s, delivered in early 1995 are running hard, even though their pull-off is somewhat slow. Even before they were rehabbed late last year into this year, they looked and ran like your typical Flxible. I also rode a 7000 and a 8900 and they ran and looked like your typical Flxible. Would be a dream come true to have
Flxible started up again.
I am planning another bus trip up to Baltimore on Wednesday and I might just try to catch those two routes.
Well,
I'm on a dispatch job next week, and vacation the week following, but should you visit after 10/19, I operate the 942am WB 20 from EUTAW ST, the 1048am EB from SECURITY SQUARE, and the 242pm WB 23 from Howard Street to Rt.40-Rolling, followed by the 336pm EB trip from Edmondson Village to Middle River.
On the 20, I can get anything from an 8700 to a 9800, even had a NABI Artic one day this week (and the 20 rarely fields Artics - @#$@ - forgot the camera that day too!). I try to ask for an 8700 Cummins L10 for the 20, but the Starter won't oblige. As for the 23, it's almost always a 0000 Series NABI.
The week after 10/19, I would probably be up there either Monday or Wednesday and I will try to catch you then.
Over the past couple of weeks, I have spotted what looks to be cameras on some of the buses. From Montgomery, 2118,2115, 2119,2120 have cameras over the front door and from Landover 2059 and 2060. Former Bladensburg 2081 has a camera in the front and the back. I am not sure if they have cameras in the inside, rode 2060 a couple of weeks ago, and aside from a waterfall like leaking A/C, didn't see one in there. Most of Baltimore buses have cameras on the inside, but have yet to see one on the outside.
I've seen cameras on 2000 and 2004 as well. There were two in the front, one pointing down towards the farebox and another looking straight back, plus one other one along the window in the middle of the bus. There was probably one or two others, but I forgot to look.
I rode 2060 appently before they installed the cameras on it and last week, I was supposed to ride 2059 home, but it had mechanical problems and went back to the garage, being replaced by 4274
Flxible Metro Video
This Flxible Metro is different from VTA. This is from Dambarton Express 154. It really sounds like Dennis Dragon, especially those City Bus 8XX in Hong Kong.
154 has a Cummins LT10 and a Voith D863.3.
Here is the video link:
http://www.natransit.com/sound/154.wmv
PS. I have a few questions...
From whom did MCI buy the Metro design?
Who bought the plants from Flxible?
Did Flxible recommend their customers to Gillig when they ran out of business?
Thanks,
Stephen
Stephen, apparently so. Many formerly Flxible fleets, especially smaller cities, went to Gilligs, including our TA (Roanoke, VA). However, larger cities have gone to New Flyer or NABI, but most every Flx fleet in Virginia is going Gillig. Anyone know if they did recommend them?
-F.
How many people saw the Twilight Zone last night, that featured a fishbowl bus following a woman around, waiting for her to get on?
The fishbowl bus looked like it was in new condition.
Sounds like that cartoon in Bus World.
Nope, I didn't see the TZ. Should have...
Just saw the following this morning at approx 11:10 AM
Command Bus # 433 which is an MCI one door bus operating on the B-100 at Flatbush and Fillmore Avenue operating towards Mill Basin
Bus had both side and front signs as follows:
"B-100 Kings Highway-Mill Basin"
Thank You
It happens from time to time. Seen it a few times over the years
what happens is there is an open run and they ask one of the express drivers to make a trip on the 100 then go do there regular run on the express. this way the guy just heads to the city once he is done with the b100 trip. btw got this from the mouth of one of the drivers a couple of weeks ago.
interesting. The MCI's are a big upgrade then the worn out rts's that ussually run on hte route
Strange but not strange.
Sometimes B100 runs are tie into Express Runs such as the BM1 in Mill Basin or BM4 in Gerriston Beach. So sometimes you end up seeing MCI Classic Suburbans or OrionV CNG Suburbans and that's pretty common thing at Command. They also run the TMC RTS CNG Suburbans on B100 but 4903 is only 1 that runs the B100 often since that's the slowest bus in Command.
BTW 4903 seems pretty fast when I rode it on B100
SEPTA unveiled its New Flyer DE40LF today. The bus looks slightly different from the other New Flyers, as the bus does not have the roof-mounted rear route number sign, it is like all of the other New Flyer models in other cities. The indicator is in the upper right corner of the bus. Interior of the bus is the same as the other SEPTA Flyers (except 5600, with its different style of seats). Another difference is that this bus, and all of the hybrids will have Cummins ISL-280 6 cylinder engines (not DDEC Series 50), these buses will join the Eldorados as the only SEPTA buses with Cummins Engines.
I will scan the fact sheet and send the sheet to anyone who will be able to post it on this board. If you want to post the photo fact sheet, please e-mail me at mdlbigcat@aol.com, and I will be glad to send you the file.
just scan it and post it as a photo.
:)
The SEPTA 5601H was used as a shuttle at the APTA Expo in Las Vegas, Nevada two weeks ago!!!
Im not able to make my trip to Babylon via Suffolk Transit tomorrow. Instead, im doing Hempstead via LIBUS garage in Mitchell field to Woodbury using the following routes:N27,N78/N79 and N94. I will post on Monday what buses i saw parked and if any Gilligs are still there.
They wanted to tell us the schedules for Columbus and Vetaran's Day but forgot that people can't read a file stored on someone's D drive. If you click the link on the current events page, you will get a page can not be found message. It will probably be fixed soon, I have seen similar blunders made before on their site.
I recently heard an ad on the radio from New York City Transit which said that the agency is planning on ordering up to 1,100 new buses. Excluding the 260 2002-2003 New Flyer artics, 100 MCI 2002 MCI D4501(already delivered), 60 2002 Orion 7 CNG LF and 65 2002 Orion Hybrid which are already on order, does anyone know what the remaining 615 buses will be as far as types and manufacturers?
As I was heading to work this morning, I observed a CNG New Flyer leaving the Pentagon on route, I believe, to Four Mile Run. I couldn't get the bus number, or to see if it was running a route or deadheading, or in training. Even though the next CNG order is going to Four Mile Run, it was odd to see one here this early. I am not even sure they have even started converting Four Mile Run yet.
The roster of MTA LI Bus is like this:
1990 Orion 05.501 #579, #584, #587 (according to sources) and two more with their numbers unknown.
1991 Orion 05.501 #600-655
1991 Orion 05.501 CNG #656-667
1993 Orion 05.501 CNG #100-130
1996 Orion 05.501 CNG #131-245
1997 Orion 05.501 CNG #270-287
2000 Orion 05.501 CNG #288-359
2001-2002 Orion 05.501 #360-394
*NOTICE THAT I INCLUDED ONLY ORIONS....NO GILLIGS OR BLUEBIRDS. ALSO, NO ORION 02.501
I have a few questions about the roster of MTA LI Bus:
1) What happened to buses #106, #112, #118 and #121? I heard that they were scrapped?
2) Do 1996 Orion 05.501 buses #246-269 exist?
3)Do the 2001-2002 Orion 05.501 buses end at #394?
Thanks!
[1991 Orion 05.501 CNG #656-667]
There were only 10 original CNG Orions; I believe they were numbered 657-666.
[Do 1996 Orion 05.501 buses #246-269 exist?]
For some reason, LI Bus skipped these numbers (or something close to them), so those buses do not exist. I heard rumors that LI Bus had other vehicles, such as dsipatcher's cars, that utilize those numbers, but have not been able to confirm.
Okay, so are buses #657-666 reapinted into the MTA LI Bus scheme? Thanks for the earlier answers.
OK, I can't answer question 1 since I really don't know what happened to those buses since they went to RVC depot (all 100-130 are at RVC).
On question 2, buses 246-269 do not exist, for some reason they left a gap in the numbering.
On question 3 you are right, the highest Orion CNG in that batch I've seen is 394.
Also I haven't seen the any Orions in the 500s for this past year, I think they were all scrapped.
Okay, are the buses #656-667 repainted into hte MTA LI Bus scheme? What is that thing on top of the driver's side of the bus? An emergency light or something?
All the LI Bus Orion CNG's have that light. I think it is on when the bus is fueling.
Where did you come up with this gem? How did you determine this? Another unsubstantiated guess just to be able to post something? That light is to indicate a potential gas problem.
WOW u have negative attitude towards things .....
Yes it is a guess. I also think the NYCT diesel Orions have them, so it's not just for CNG buses.
Get your F***ing A** off this stage you s**t head!
Watch it with the language.Do you want Dave Piermann to can this site again or remove you from BT .So cut the garbage.
I sorry about that but Joe Saitta keeps saying not so smart things when he replys to Qtraindash7 Bus Sightings saying stupid things.
(And Joe Saitta. Stop acting like that when you reply to things from Qtraindash7. Leave him alone he just want to report of what buses he saw. You starting to act like those NIMBY's up in the north shore.)
It would be nice if he would be the one to appologize. It great to have critisism here on BusTalk, but the respect for people is also needed to be shown here. I agree the responses are wrong but John needs to start showing some class.
Will you guys stop the bickering? That's what had this board shut down for a few months. Let's not get it shut down again-will ya?
OK QTrain you've had your numerous complaints about LI Bus.
Everyday it's the same thing. Nothing will change it until NYCTA takes it over on March 1, 2003. Till then, please drop it.
2nd people do have a right to disagree but being rude to it is not the answer. Disagree in such a way that it won't hurt the other person's feelings.
Otherwise ACT LIKE ADULTS AND GROW UP! I hate this bickering back and forth! It's like Pre-K in here sometimes!
#179 N22
"Q46Nova", just chill out ok. Its cool to diasgree/criticize but your language. If he's bothering you, just leave him alone. If he wants to say ignorant, stupid and immature comments let him!!!! This is a board on talking about buses, NOT for personal posts!!
1990 Orion Diesels (first order): 579-599 (currently most are in the reserve fleet with a few seeing service when needed). Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable.
1991 Orion Diesels (second order): 600-656. Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Most in daily service Monday to Saturday; CNGs used exclusively on Sunday.
1991 Orion (first CNG order): 657-666. 666 scrapped, unknown if any others are scrapped or inoperable.
1993 Orion (second CNG order): 100-129. Original number series 100-125. Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Numbers missing due to computer conflict with older buses still in service when these units arrived.
1996/1997 Orion (third CNG order): 130-245; also 270-287 Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Arrival of these units caused retirement of all older (Fishbowl) units by early 1997; Flxible 434 and GMC Blitz ex-NYCTA 5549 were among the last to be retired.
Maintenance/service vehicles, assorted: 246-271. Ironically, two vehicles are numbered 271 - an Orion and a tow truck.
2000 Orion (fourth CNG order): 288-357.
2001 Orion (fifth CNG order): 358-395.
A few Gilligs also remain in the reserve fleet; numbers unknown.
Thanks Joe!
Hi
Can anyone assist me in updating my Descriptions ,,completed about 1994
Thanks
Steve
FDNY
914 329 7489
Thanks for the "insider" scoop. So I rode 395 today on the N27. Never rode it before, has few ads in it. Still has that new bus smell. :-)
NOw that I got the Washington D.C. bus roster and the Fairfax Connector bus roster, I was wondering if anyone has the Baltimore bus roster? I went to the Baltimore Bus Archives and the roster is still the same...October 20, 2000! Does anyone have an updated roster with scrapped or stored buses? Thanks very much to anyone and/or everyone!
Sorry for the lack of an update to the fleet roster, but every time I get it straight - it changes.
I'll be working a starter shift next week, so hopefully I can get some accurate information. I would post the official roster, but there are adequate discrepancies with this one that I try to improve upon.
7442 spotted today on rt 9. the other day saw 8262 on the corridor.
also known as carlton yard located at carlton and atlantic in beautiful brooklyn. about 50 buses repose there waiting for their final trip. most have numbers and markings removed as well as outside ads. i did see orion 473, there are no other orions there. also the following rts buses were identifiable 3807,3818,4152,4675,4690,4691 and 4409.
Whoa, thanks HUDSON for your input!
I think I remember seeing 4152 at Hudson Depot not too long ago - especially on the M6 and M22. Does anyone know why that one went to Carlton?
I thought Carlton was a "Reserve" Storage Yard - with buses that COULD run if needed - I guess the only exception is 473.
the buses in that yard will never see service again including 473. once transit removes all markings that is the end of the line. these buses are just waiting to go to nimco. perhaps crosstown has some storage buses. edgewater used to.
Wait so both 4690 and 4691 are Carlton yard? I thought only 4691 was there. Thats means FP has 244 buses.
They can't lose anymore buses. If FP's fleet goes below 240, then there's really going to be a problem.
yup theyre both there along with 4675. was that also fp. someone posted 4889 was also junked. could be there. the majority have no numbers anywhere.
Spoke to someone high up in the DOB yesterday. The person told me that the TA will not be extending any buses to serve the Gateway Mall.
It seems that the mall's owners does not want TA buses on his property.
The person told me that if TA bus service was to be started that the B-13,B-60 and the B-82 will have been extended.
Thank You
well now that just damn hell sucks! i dont have a car and i really wanted to go check out that mall! that owner is really stupid!he/she should take into consideration that people who dont know how to drive and rely on buses and would like to go to that mall would want to go there by bus.Like me.Stupid owner,I already hate that person for saying that.
When this mall owner has fewer customers than he hoped, maybe he'll change his mind about buses.
Perhaps the owner is trying for the upscale customer and figures he can get higher rents from stores that cater to that element. If public transit customers (perceived to be of lower income) come into the mall, the upscale people will boycott and eventually different stores with lower rents will come in.
Green Acres is a good example of that, by allowing some city buses to terminate there, most upscale customers are afraid to go there because of the perceived crime and patronize nearby Roosevelt Field mall.
Of course, the owner won't stop the cabs and car services from coming in.
If he allows charter and tour buses in, then you could sue him for all his worth citing the Galleria Mall in Buffalo as a precedent.
Last time I was there, most Rowdies at Green Acres come by car, not bus. Granted, I haven't been there in 3 years.
[Green Acres is a good example of that, by allowing some city buses to terminate there, most upscale customers are afraid to go there because of the perceived crime and patronize nearby Roosevelt Field mall.]
Three points:
1. The N1, N2, N3 (and, once upon a time, the N5) went to Green Acres l-o-n-g before the Q5 and Q85 were extended there.
2. The buses terminate on Green Acres Road, which is a PUBLIC STREET controlled by the Village of Valley Stream and/or the Town of Hempstead. The mall owner has no say over who gets to use it.
3. The real problem is racism/classism on the part of the "upscale" shoppers. Their perceptions, real or pretend, are a good topic for discussion - but not here.
" The N1, N2, N3 (and, once upon a time, the N5) went to Green Acres l-o-n-g before the Q5 and Q85 were extended there."
True, but according to the "upscale" shoppers, those Nassau routes do not bring in the "undesireables". They think that the Queens routes do.
Also those Nassau routes dont run very often. Compared to the county's two other large malls (Sunrise and RF) the amount of LI Buses going there is small.
Perhaps ridership on the LIB GreenAcres routes does not justify a service increase.
Again, last time I was there, most of the rowdy crowd came by way of cars, not buses. These upscale suburbanites have a real case of denial, in this case, denial that bad elements and rowdy people come by car.
[The N1, N2, N3 (and, once upon a time, the N5) went to Green Acres l-o-n-g before the Q5 and Q85 were extended there.]
The Bee Line trivia experts know that, once upon a time, the N7 also went to Green Acres.
I remember the first day the Q5 was extended to Green Acres Mall. Bus stops in front of Sunrise Cinema and Alexanders (This was in 1987, of course). Southeast Queens residents were thrilled because they did not have to walk to Green Acres....Nassau residents were not that thrilled. One guy protested saying that, "these N..... should not be coming here! We do not need more of these N.....!" My Dad had a field day with him as well as everybody else. My point, the Q5 extension was a great choice. So was the Q85 from Rochdale Village to Green Acres!
"1. The N1, N2, N3 (and, once upon a time, the N5) went to Green Acres l-o-n-g before the Q5 and Q85 were extended there."
And in reality, the N5 lives on at Green Acres. The current N1 is actually a combination of the old N1 and N5 routes. The N1 draws some passengers -- the 2 and 3 are pretty sparse.
The issue that killed Green Acres for the suburbanites wasn't rowdy behavior, it was auto theft*. Back in the 80's and early 90's, the newly renovated Green Acres had a ridiculously high auto theft rate -- to the level that Valley Stream was one of the leading "cities" in the US for auto theft per capita.
The suburbanites quickly shifted their shopping patterns to other locations -- which were now also being renovated, most notably Roosevelt Field and downtown Cedarhurst.
Merchants at Green Acres quickly shifted to a younger and more middle class market focus which continues to this day. The mall has never been more successful than it is now.
* - Rowdy behavior was definitely the cause of decreased patronage at nearby Sunrise Cinemas. A rash of brawls along with a handful of shootings (not to mention the possiblity of not having your car after the show ended) really hurt their attendance. I don't know how the multiplex theatre in downtown Jamaica is doing, but I suspect that the end for Sunrise Cinemas is near.
CG
Wasn't Sunrise Cinemas the scene of a real-life shoot out during a shoot-out scene in Godfather II? My foggy memory seems to recall that during a playing of one of the Godfather sequels (early 80's?) there was a shot-out (highly publicized of course) and that theatre hasn't been the same since (and it's had that stigma nearly 20 Years!)
I believe your memory is accurate.
CG
That is not the case. Both Green Acres and Kings plaza in brooklyn decline are directly the result of management at the properties not upgrading thier facilities and store mix to compeat with newer larger competitors
If I am not mistaking roosevelt feild has numerous bus lines terminating at the mall.
Although I live in walking distance from kings plaza I have been to Roosevelt feild more oftern then I have been to kings plaza over the past 5 years
Why? Roosevelt feild has the stores I shop in. Roosevelt feild is brightly lit and inviting. When I am hungry there is a food court with 20 resturants who give out free samples(sometimes I don't actuall buy anything)
Kings plaza is dark and dank(the renovations currently underway spruce the place up a bit). Kings plaza has junky stores. Even the macy's does not carry the brands I wear.
Roosevelt feild has 4 department stores. Kings plaza two
Roosevelt feild is safer.
Kings plaza has gangs of kids rooming the cooridors acting lowd and rude. Illegal dollar vans that nearly run you over. Dolar van drivers peeing all over the place. LESS selection of stores. A ovie theater where people talk to through the movie
Kings plaza has recently been bought by Verando realty trust who is spending th e first moeny in hte place since it opened 31 years ago and is attempting to bring in a better mix of stores.
Kings plaza's infrastructure is so bad that over the summer it's generator went down and left the entire mall pitch black(kp is not hooked up to con ed)
Also Starrett which is nearby has it's own generator. Kind of ironic the two are so close together.
Also Green Acres has alot of junky stores. The Macy's was still looking like the old A&S last time I was there!
the renovations at Kings Plz were finished several months ago.And from what I hear,Roosevelt Field is unsafe.If bad kids roam around Kings Plz,which I never seen,they're defiantly at RF as well.
Yeah RF has been having some probs with rowdy gangs (remember gang-ridden Hempstead is nearby). But RF has better stores than Green Acres and a nice bus stop. From what I remember, buses stopped on the outer ring road of the mall at Green Acres, and there were no shelters.
When's the last time you've been inside Kings Plaza??
Before the renovations, it got so bad that people fought to keep it from closing down. Now it is real beautiful, the floor has carpet, & it has a little "suburbia feel" in it. They completed a majority of the work already. You live around there & you didnt see the new front they put on the Flatbush Av side, new brighter lighting on the Av u side, then you really haven't been there.
I never encountered rowdy kids there but I'm sure you got a few there. Show some proof that Roosevelt Field is safer than KP!
"I" before "E", except after "C"!
[When this mall owner has fewer customers than he hoped, maybe he'll change his mind about buses.]
Actually, what is more likely to bring buses to the mall is the tenants complaining that they are finding it hard to hire help because potential employees have no way of getting to the mall other than driving. It is likely that the various store tenants will need to hire many people who are not able to drive to the mall.
Just out of curiousity, how close is the closest bus stop to Gateway?
B 13 Fountain Av and Brooklyn Development Center is the last stop and first stop which is closest to the mall for the someone who can not walk that much, like I say it is a shame. However I did see one bus driver was nice enough to drop passengers by Seaview Av (AKA Gateway Dr.) when heading back towards Postal facility
[Actually, what is more likely to bring buses to the mall is the tenants complaining that they are finding it hard to hire help because potential employees have no way of getting to the mall other than driving. It is likely that the various store tenants will need to hire many people who are not able to drive to the mall.]
I offer once again the example of the Broadway Mall in Hicksville. ?Some years ago, the mall owner decided to pursue an "upscale" image, and summarily evicted the buses; L.I. Bus then truncated most of its Hicksville routes to the LIRR station, almost a mile away. Almost immediately, stores had to close because the lack of bus service made it tough to attract/retain ultra-low-wage employees.
And to this day Broadway mall does very poorly. Actually whenever I take the N20 I never see many people get on or get off there.
The distance between the Hicksville LIRR Station and the Broadway Mall is only 2.5-tenths of a mile, not a mile.
What correlation is there between stores closing and ultra low-wage employees? Absolutely none. Stores close due to lack of business because of many other factors, such as poor general economy or nearby competition. The much-larger Roosevelt Field Mall is not too far away, and it offers severe competition for the Broadway Mall.
Just out of curiosity, did the Broadway Mall (Mid Island Plaza) do better financially during the days the buses went in? Roosevelt Field was still around as a competitor in those days, though it wasn't as large. However, there was no Hicksville Ikea back then to attract nearby traffic, so it could be a wash in that respect.
Mid-Island Plaza was always more of a second-tier mall, with the possible exception of the 70's -- when malls were all the rage. The whole idea of the name change was to hopefully modernize the image.
Roosevelt Field and Sunrise Mall (Massapequa) were always the premier malls in Nassau with Green Acres and Mid-Island lagging behind.
CG
[The distance between the Hicksville LIRR Station and the Broadway Mall is only 2.5-tenths of a mile, not a mile.]
My bad. The point, though, is that the added distance made a bus commute that much more difficult.
- - - - -
[What correlation is there between stores closing and ultra low-wage employees? Absolutely none. Stores close due to lack of business because of many other factors, such as poor general economy or nearby competition.]
I didn't say that access for ultra-low wage employees was the ONLY factor in the viability of mall stores. (Yes, there CAN be more than one factor.) However, it's a significant factor - even the best store with the best merchandise has zero hope of success if it can't attract employees. At the same time, retailers naturally want to pay their workers as little as possible, in order to maximize profits. That means targeting those with already-low incomes, who tend to be transit-dependent.
- - - - -
[The much-larger Roosevelt Field Mall is not too far away, and it offers severe competition for the Broadway Mall.]
AND it has far better access for transit-dependent employees and shoppers.
Sounds like the owner of Gateway mall wants to keep out bus riders and low income people. The city should have made it in the contract for the new mall the city buses can stop there. Quite sad.
What's to prevent NYCT from bringing it's buses to the public streets nearest the mall? That's better than having no bus access.
Dan,
Can't blame the TA on this one. If the owner does not want the buses on his property why should the TA help bring him customers.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
But my question is still why can't the MTA set up a bus stop at least at the border or on BKLYN Development side on Elskine St or Seaview Av (the portion that exist for Seaview av since it is now renamed Gateway Dr.) You can tell where their property lies when you look at the pavement on the road....
I seriously doubt that the mall owner is trying to exclude paying customers. Just because you do not drive does not mean you are undesirable. There are many undesireables that drive.
Personally driving is the only way for me to get to the mall even if they extend bus lines
The developer has built a small park as part of deal with the city. Very nice. Plus gateway mall is not an upscale type of mall. It is a strip mall with big box retailers target, home depot, bj's, old navy.
This is really a shame! I just went to Gateway today and it is already fustraiting as a bus rider to either 1) walk a long distance from the bus to the mall and vise versa I already see alot of people complaining about why is there not a bus stop at least at Seaview Av (aka Gateway Dr.). THe other is issue is the B 13 with the 30 min waits during weekends or middays (from 11am - 1pm) you would think with the a crowded bus as far as Gateway that there will be more service.
But I do have a question if it can not go at the mall can the MTA place a terminal at Eskline St and Vandilla Av? I don't think that is their property after you pass the good road pavements.
It is a shame that the developer is disciminating against people withount cars. My guestion is when illeagal vans relizise there is a market to/from gateway center and start transporting the precieved undesirible clientel, what are the developers going to do have a check point and not allow them in I doubt that. Btw I wouder how the workers get in and out i'm sure many don't drive and further that they are part of the "undisirable" people I bet. After all that is most of the general community in the area isn't it!
Well Gateway is one mall I'm not gonna visit. Broadway mall is another. Any mall without a bus stop is not worth my business.
maybe he thinks people from the belt will come. hes got another thought if he thinks this will be a very upscale mall. by the way is the place open. he has to hire from the community.
yes the mall opened this week.
Maybe the buses won't be allowed now to enter Gateway. But I'm sure in a few months when people start complaining LOUDLY about the lack of mass transit access and the first 6 month revenue projection$$$$$ fall short, Buses will be allowed.
Agree and I can't wait when the Big Guys get involved??
He was to improve the development of Spring Creek and Starett City....
Boy if that is true, well he is only look out himself. This mall needs these communities on their side and He is not giving them a positive outlook.
You are right Hudson, I have a friend who works at one of the stores and she has to depend on the B 13. She told me if she doesn't make it at a certain time forget about being their on time. If she miss lthe bus she would had to depend on a cab from Euclid Av which is about $5. Yesterday I know a couple of people who are waiting on what busses are coming over here (especially the ones I know at Starett City) and when I told them the bad news, boy where they angry. About a lot of workers have to depend on B 13 and the long walk to get there don't the owners know that?
if the owner does,then he doesnt give a damn about it.
I hope this issue change pretty quickly. I was over there last week, and there were a lot of people walking to/from the B13 bus stop. I hope headways on the B13 are improved and TA extend the B14 and the B82 into the mall area as well. This was one of the issues brought up at the B13/18 combo meeting.
The B14 got extended near Gateway Mall. Yes I agree that the B13 must get improved headways BUT since the # of buses in FP is going down slightly due to scrapping [mainly '87/'88 TMC's], it will just have to wait, unfortunately. If Hudson Pier is scheduled to close in 2003, I hope they get 9606-9618, that would help them out.
As much as I dislike the 4600's/4700's, FP needs them. I really hope HP's 9606-9618(or GH's 9229-9249) comes to FP as soon as possible. FP's three and a half year drought is still going. I hope no more 3900's/4600's/4700's come to FP, ever.
I wish FP's future roster would look like this:
-255 Buses-
1990 RTS: 8000-8032, 8130-8171 (75)
1996 RTS: 9140-9249 (110!!)
1998 RTS: 9569-9618 (50)
1999 RTS: 5055-5074 (20)
I would never say anything bad about FP if it was like this. 255 would be the perfect # of buses for FP, but not 243. < 240 is going to cause problems. "Hand downs"(newer than 1987) need to come here ASAP if the B13 wants to improve..
"I wish FP's future roster would look like this:"
>>-255 Buses-
1990 RTS: 8000-8032, 8130-8171 (75)
1996 RTS: 9140-9249 (110!!)
1998 RTS: 9569-9618 (50)
1999 RTS: 5055-5074 (20)<<
Thats true. They need to stop handing down the crap to Brooklyn Depots. FP had the misfortune of getting 1985,1987 and 1988 RTS's but Ulmer Park got the worst of it, especially when they had to give up 5075-5099 to FB and they're stuck with '88 TMC's still, just like FP. The RTS suburans that became local service buses and the '96 Novas is the only bright spot for them.
I know you want FP to be better BUT:
a. What is Flatbush going to get in return for giving up 8018-8032, 8130,8137,8138,8140,8142-8146,8148-8150,8154,8156,8159,8162-8165 because the MTA looks like they really cannot buy buses right now due to their financial mess and they really HAVE TO DEPEND ON RTS's more than ever :-). Shouldn't have scrapped most of the '84, '85, and some '86 GMC's, now it may come back to haunt them.
b. Only if 126 gets those artics that are suposed to go there plus I doubt that they would give up 9186-9228, maybe the 1990/1991 TMC's
c. Gun Hill giving up 9229-9249 looks more realistic but not to Brooklyn, but you never know.
d. Since Hudson Pier is scheduled to clsoe, I wouldn't be surprised if FP got 9606-9618.
id send 9229-9249 over to UP that way UP roster could be this:
4854-4872
7511-7534
9077-9110
9229-9249-or better yet, get #9350-#9384 from QV to UP instead.
9296-9341
comments?
"get #9350-#9384 from QV to UP instead."
QV has 9350-9381 not up to 9384.
True. It(UP) could sure use a better bus roster, seeing that Gun Hill may get more artics, transferring 9229-9249 is probably first choice. Ulmer should be 1st choice.
I'm not so sure on QV transferring their '97 novas though. Its a possibility that could happen but Flatbush could also be in the mix and this would ensure the GM's retirement in FB but with the MTA in financial troubles, buying new buses is not in the picture (besides the remaining order of MCI'S). They MUST keep as much buses as they possibly can. Agree/disagree?
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
The B14 got extended one block south and one block to the right and ends in front of the movie theatre. I guess this move was for dispatching reasons. The same goes for the B8 to the Rock...
B14#4987
B8#8092
There was a article in todays Arizona Repuplic Friday 10/04/2002
"Phoenix invests $65 million to get commuters on bus"
Article Link with link to Bus Diagram And Service Area Map
http://www.arizonarepublic.com/arizona/articles/1004buses04.html
Its strange the these Rapid routes use the same routes as Current Express Lines 500, 501, 502 (Paradise Valley Expresses), 560, 561 (Desert Sky Expresses), 580, 582 (North Phoenix Expresses) and only serve The Capital/Goverment Mall areas of downtown, the Rapid lines do not serve the Financal area on N. Central Avenue. They also say these buses will be faster then the current express routes they will be replacing (55 Mph is the same for any freeway run of a Bus in a HOV Lane)
Can you analise the info in the article please?
and
Does anyone know abnout these buses?
The first of the buses was at the APTA Expo in Las Vegas, Nevada, two weeks ago. Very sharp looking!!
hmmm what about a photos and some specs.!
:)
:)
:)
These are evidently the 45 foot transit buses that Valley Metro ordered from NABI a long time ago. I've been waiting to see these buses the past few times I've visited the Phoenix area, but they evidently won't be arriving for several months, other than the initial test bus. As has been indicated in past posts on BusTalk, these are the first 45 foot transit buses in the U.S. Does anybody know if any other city has ordered them besides Phoenix?
They are the only city so far.
What I want to see is a photo.
Actually, Hugh (and Sid, for that matter)...
Los Angeles has also placed an order for 30 NABI 45C-LFW CompoBuses to be delivered soemtime next year or so...no word on what they will be used on...I would suggest the Metro Rapid lines (specifically the 720 and 750)...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
actually, some will be used for the RapidBus .... some will be used on regular lines
Eddie a
So...does anyone have a pic of these, or should we defect to their website?
-F.
I don't have a website, or any other place to display one, so I sent one to you via e-mail. It was at the APTA Expo 2002 in Las Vegas two weeks ago. Sorry about the large size of the picture...so sit back and have a cold one while it's downloading.
Steve. Can you send me one too?
here is a smaller version of your photo
Posted by Steve Hoskins
I don't have a website, or any other place to display one, so I sent one to you via e-mail. It was at the APTA Expo 2002 in Las Vegas two weeks ago. Sorry about the large size of the picture...so sit back and have a cold one while it's downloading.
Whoa!! Nice!
Steve,
If it's not too much trouble for you, can I also see a picture of the NABI CompoBus? If you want, you can also have that pic put up on someone's website so you can have it out there for people to view...
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
E-mail: carlwal@hotmail.com
Thanks, Steve!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
618 seen two days in a row on the Q74.....Stengel logo now affixed.
Also just saw 4554 from JAM working Q74 (didnt get run). Must have been a swap.
I found out today I was wrong, that 395 is the highest Orion CNG at LI Bus as I rode it today on the N21. Still looks and smells brand new. :-)
I found out today I was wrong, that 395 is the highest Orion CNG at LI Bus as I rode it today on the N27. Still looks and smells brand new. :-)
*i rode it on the N27, not the N21 (my mistake, sorry)
Didn't take the Metro this morning in the wake of yesterday's shootings. I have been somewhat hesitant to go outside although now that the most recent shooting has been a little further away than the others, I have felt a little more comfortable outside.
All Ride-On buses (except the 5100s and probably the 5200s) have Montgomery County seals on the left side under the driver's window.
9652 was on the T2 with a bike rack today, I think I already reported this one. It was interesting since that run normally gets a Flxible.
4001 was on the T2 this morning (I drove this morning instead of taking the Metro). Was this bus ever at Bladensburg? I have also seen other low numbers of the Metro-Es at Montgomery and I know these buses were at Bladensburg.
Advance notice: I will not be posting on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of next week since I will be out of town.
4001-4008 and 4051-4057 used to be at Bladensburg.
Also today I spotted the following Four Mile Run buses with bike racks:
Orion 6: 2024, 2066, 2067 and 2071
Orion 5: 4288 and 4227
9830 and 9288 didn't have bike racks yet. This is rare in that mostly all of Four Mile Run's 9800s and 9200s have bike racks
Also the following Orion 6s have cameras and they are 2024 and 2021.
Last but not least the dedicated bus to fallen officer Farthing is still has the posters on it.
Is 9813 a Four Mile Run bus? I rode that one when I visited in 1997. Also, does it have old or new scheme, and does it have a rack? When I was there, it was in older colors and had no rack.
-F.
Fred,
WMATA started installing the bike racks less than 2 months ago. Also I pretty sure that all of the METRO-D & E's at WMATA are now in the new color scheme. Of course there could be a couple of hold-outs tucked away somewhere. I was really hoping that some would make through the overhaul/repainting and somehow - manage to retain their original wrap-around tail lights, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
BTW-Most of the 93/9400 METRO-B's (both new and old paint scheme) have the newer LED tail lights, but thankfully, some were spared this treatment.
Wayne
9813 is based out of Northern
I noticed while traveling on the Q13 to Flushing from Bayside, that the drivers do not always do the last drop off at the same place...why is that?.....some leave us on 39 Ave..which I hate..and some are nice enough to leave us by the escalators for the #7 subway.
The Q13, Q16, and Q28 drop off at the stop on 39th Avenue, between 138th Street and the Lippmann Pedestrian Arcade. Some drivers who pull in after a westbound trip will bypass 39th Avenue and drop off on Roosevelt Avenue; however, they're technically off-route.
This is just a guess, but I'd think that a driver on the Q13 who discharges on Roosevelt is probably heading back to the depot right from there. The Q13 normally discharges on 39th Avenue, just east of 138th Street, and then loads for the eastbound trip further down the block on 39th Avenue. It doesn't make sense that a driver who would need to subsequently pick up passengers on 39th Avenue would choose to drop off on Roosevelt. On the other hand, if the driver were heading to CS, it would be a straight shot down Roosevelt to the depot after dropping off.
Plus, I don't think there's enough room for a bus to turn right onto Union St. from 39th Ave. There's no "white line" to keep the northbound Union St. traffic away from the intersection to give a bus enough room to turn right. Besides, if there WAS a white line, all the northbound traffic would be backed out into Roosevelt.
Let me explain.......
I was on the Q28 when I went to Bayside high School. I know the drivers who drive me to Flushing, sometimes in BOTH directions (to and from school). Anyways, the Q13, Q16 and Q28 drop passengers off on Roosevelt Av because the driver is done for the day. He/she would race back to the depot by using Roosevelt Av (or when I was going to Bayside...the bus would use 39th Av westbound from Union St towards College Point Blvd. Back then, 39th Av was one-way westbound!) Same is true for the Q14 and Q20. The Q12 would "act" like the Q26 or Q27 and make a left onto Roosevelt Av. That told me that the driver is done for the day. This should explain everything.
Today I was over at Crescent Apartments,The South Terminal for the Q23 and QM12. I was takeing pics and the driver from Bus #3029 yell at me that it's not a good place to take pics and he told me that he wants to break my camera. What a ASS! I just Walked away and walked a few blocks to Woodhaven and it was fine from there on
That driver needs to get a clue. It's not like hurt him or the bus, he needs to just do his DAMN job and leave you alone.
Never know what you might catch the driver in the act of doing...
Ever wonder how they get graffiti over the front of the bus and operators position?
-Hank
While it's true, as Hank eludes, the markings and writings above the operators' position are indeed written by a few select individuals who operate such buses. However, here are a few facts to consider:
We routinely write the farebox number somewhere near the destination sign keypad (the farebox number is a requirement of our "trip sheet"). Many farebox numbers, which are usually written onto a piece of masking tape and affixed to the drivers view area of the farebox, are missing or illegible. An operator may note the farebox number from the front (passenger entry) side of the farebox and make a notation near the keypad entry. S/he may also write the number on one of the stickers overhead.
To see what I mean, the next time you board a bus, look above the operators head near the destination sign keypad for something resembling "FB # 2345".
Secondly, if an operator is going to write something other than a farebox number, he will do this out of sight of anyone. Definitely not in a visible area, and certainly not around any passengers.
This type of thing is usually done late nights or after dark.
Lastly, even if you "catch" an operator writing "something", it just may very well be a farebox number!
So there you have it. BO graffiti 101.
Class dismissed.
I can drink to that. It's not like you are out to get him; it really burns when people get paranoid like that. However, some drivers feel an invasion of privacy with cameras, so you have to look at their point of view on the issue, although it's hard to do as most drivers act like you just killed their family when they see you with a camera.
-F.
yea make sure you don't take your picture where ppl can see.it can turn into damage sometimes.make sure you take photos well the bus is on route is going fast.just some advice.
:)
Call Triboro Coach and lodge a complaint.
Yes. And while you're at it, explain that you are a busfan and ask about their policy on taking photos. Usually the folks at the office are more laid back and have the time to explain things as they do not have to be constantly on the lookout for bad drivers, idiots running after the bus, and other crucial safety factors.
A helpful hint: it's usually best to make friends at your local TA first, preferably in person, before you do these things. It really makes a difference, and that way they know your motives and don't think you're just some freak with a camera that's up to no good.
-F.
Does the B15 make any stops in Queens outside of JFK Airport?
very few along Conduit Ave but it quickly shifts to Brooklyn.
No, the B15 makes stops at the Airport itself (the 9 terminals & Tower Air) and the N/S Service Roads then it goes straight to Brooklyn via N/S Conduit Av and makes its 1st stop in Brooklyn on Linden Blvd and Drew St I believe.
Hope this helps.
Here's a little run down of what you can expect to see on a typical weekday in Baltimore should you visit, as I've gotten requests on where to find certain equipment in the MTA system. Note that nothing is concrete, but is based mainly on general observation. Unlike many cities, few routes in Baltimore see concrete assignments of coach types - here goes...
1 - Base service (3 blks) typically all BUSH Flxible 9000-9500, with extra 8700 Flxibles in peak.
2 - Base service (6 blks) typically BUSH NABI 9600 Artic, with scattered Flxibles in peak.
3 - Base service (~9 blks) mostly KIRK NABI, with many 8600, 8800-8900 KIRK/BUSH Flxibles in peak
4 - Base and peak service (3 blks) typically EAST NABI or 9400-9500 Flxibles.
5 - Base service mostly NW/EAST NABI, with 8500-8600, 7000 Flxibles in peak.
7 - Base serice (3 blks) typically all NW NABI, with scattered NW/EAST Flx in peak.
8 - Base service mix of 9700-0000 KIRK NABI, and 8800-8900 KIRK Flx, with 8600,7000 Flx in peak.
10 - Base service (~8 blks) mostly EAST NABI, 9000-9200 Flx mix. More EA-BUSH FLX in peak.
11 - Base service mostly KIRK-BUSH Flx 8800-9400, with some NABIs, Add'l BUSH-KIRK Flx in peak.
13 - Base service mostly EAST NABI 9700-0000, Many Add'l EAST-NW Flx in peak.
14 - Base service (5 blks) typically all BUSH NABI 9900's, with a couple peak blocks w/Bush Flx 9000-9200.
15 - Base service vast mix of BUSH-KIRK NABIs and Flxs. Add'l BUSH-KIRK Flx in peak.
16 - Base service (2 blks) 1 BUSH and 1 NWBS NABI, with add'l BUSH and NB Flxs in peak.
17 - Base service (3 blks) varies from BUSH 9900 NABI to BUSH 8800 Flx. Add'l peak blocks may also be either NABI or Flx.
19 - Base service mostly KIRK NABI 9700-0000, with add'l KIRK Flx 8600-8900 in peak.
20 - Base service mostly BUSH-EAST NABI 9700-9800, with add'l BUSH-EAST Flx in peak.
21 - Base service (3 blks) typically EAST 9200s, with add'l 8800-8900 Flx in peak.
22 - Base service typcally EAST-NW NABI 9700-9900, with add'l Flx in peak.
23 - Base service typically EAST-BUSH 9900-0000, with add'l Flx in peak, BUSH Artics also possible.
24 - Sole bus may be 8700 Shorty, or 9700-0000 EAST NABI.
27 - Base Service (5 blks) typically NW-BUSH NABI, with one block (61) usually 9400-9500 Flx.
29 - Base Service (3 blks) typically BUSH 9200-9400 Flx, Peak service (3 sep. blks) typically 8800-9200 Flx.
31 - Base Service mix of anything from BUSH 8700 Flx to 0000 NABI. 8500 up Flx's in peak.
33 - Base Service (3 blks) typically 2 NW NABI 9700-9800, and 1 KIRK 8900 Flx. Add'l Flx in peak.
35 - Base Service typically 9900-0000 EAST NABI. Very limited Flx service in peak.
36 - Base Service and peak service similar to 8.
44 - Base Service typically KIRK and NW 9900's. Add'l Flx in peak.
46/48/49 - School service mostly Flxs, though NABI's can and do appear. Flx Shorties also quite common.
50 - Base Service (1 bus) typically KIRK 8700 Shorty Flx, though KIRK 9200's common too.
51 - Base Service mix of BUSH and NW NABIs and W/C Flxs. Add'l Flxs in peak and school pds.
55 - Base Service typically KIRK 9900 NABIs with one Eastern Block (8 blk) typically 9900. Add'l KIRK 8800s-8900s in peak.
61 - Base Service (2 blks) - vary from BUSH 8800 Flx to BUSH 9800 NABI. Add'l peak service using BUSH Flxs.
64 - Base Service (5 blks) mix of BUSH WC Flxs and 9700-9800 NABIs, add'l 8500, 8700-9000 Flx in peak.
77 - Base service generally NW NABI, with 9000-9200 Flxs in peak. 9500 NW Ikarus Artics can and do appear.
86 - Peak service (2 blks)typically KIRK-NW 8600-8900's
91 - Base Service (6 blks)typically NW Ikarus 9500 and NABI 9600 Artics. Add'l Flx in peak.
97/98 (Mond-Hamd Shuttles) (3/2 blks)supposed to be exclusive Thomas SLFs though Flx Shorties are extremely common sights as backups. 40 Ft. Flxs also regular sight.
102 - Shift service (1 blk. ea) often 8500 NW Sub'n Flx or Shorty Flx.
103-104-105 - Peak Service (1 blk ea.) generally KIRK 9500 Flx or more commonly 9700-0000 NABI.
120 - Peak service (~10 blks) almost always 9900 KIRK NABI.
150 - Peak service (3 blks) almost always 9900 BUSH NABI.
160 - Peak service (6 blks) typically 9700-0000 EAST NABI.
210 - Peak service (5 blks) almost always 9900 BUSH NABI.
M1 - Base service typically NW 9700-9900 NABI, with add'l Flx in peak.
M2 & M3 - Base service typically range of NW 8900 Flx to 9900 NABI, with add'l Flx in peak.
M6 - Base service typically NW 9900 NABI, with add'l Flx in peak.
M8 - Base service typically NW 9800 NABI, with add'l Flx or NABI in peak.
M9 - Base service typically NW 9900 NABI, with add'l NABI/Flx in peak.
M10 - Base service (3 blks)generally either NW 8700 Shorty or 9800-0000 NABI, or mix therein.
M12 - Peak service ranges from 8600 Flx to 0000 NABI.
M17 - Peak service (2 blks) typically 8800-9200 NW Flx.
With the introduction of the B30 by WMATA, I am pretty sure many more D.C. busfans will go up to Baltimore. I just wish that bus was running a couple of years ago, I would have loved to ride the Grummans.
Ahh, the Grummans and 8300 Flxibles were some of the nimblest 6V92 buses I ever drove.
The 3500 Grummans were a heaven and hell set - Some of them were the most tired, dog slow coaches you'd never want to drive, but others were jackrabbits. I can remember relieving a bus on a #31 line base block about 5 years ago, and here comes #3504 - about the oldest coach on the lot - I wasn't sure what to expect, but instantly I fell in love with that bus - by the time I pulled in, I wanted to take her home! - fyi - 3548 was the last to run in service - until early 2000. A couple of us loyalists would fight over getting that bus.
The last 10 8300's were soft seaters, and were among the nicest of the series. I had hoped to save 8372, but it went to a Fire Department, so perhaps one day there will still be a chance. And 8371 was the last of these to operate in service.
OOH....what Fire Department, and where? Do tell!
-Fred
Actually, a decent amount of ex-Baltimore Grummans and Flxibles survive in post-MTA service, running for various organizations - the list as best I know it now is...
3517 - MTA Mobile Command Post
3518 (Cummins Retrofit Demo) - Lake Shore VFD
8372 - Riviera Beach VFD
8374 - Md. State Police
8444 - Md. Motor Vehicle Admin portable offices
another 3500, i think 3537? is up in Carroll County somewhere in a youth program. 8741 and 8581 (the first 30 footer) are reportedly out in the suburban counties somewhere.
The one bus I'm ESPECIALLY interested in finding more about is ex-3083, the sole survivor of the mighty '75's!
WOW...I have GOT to see pics of the MD State Police unit and the others. Where may I find a pic of these? Also, by '75's, do you mean the 1975 Flxible New Looks? And how come only one is surviving? Where is it, and what happened to the others?
-Fred
So none of the 8500s are still around? When did they go bye-bye?
-Fred
There are a *FEW* 8500s still out there - but not many - BUSH has 6, EASTERN has about 4, KIRK has only 1, and NORTHWEST has about 5. Of all these, 4 (2 BUSH, 2 NW) of them are remaining one door suburbans, 2 of which have had padded transit seats installed.
Their days seem very numbered, as the annex lot is quite clean, as if in preparation for the Neoplan delivery.
Need to get back up there to ride those babies, before they head off into the sunset ( I like it better than saying the crusher).
PLEASE don't mention the crusher. Surely Baltimore auctions their buses rather than scrapping them? Tell me they do or I'll cry! :(
-F.
Sorry, didn't mean to say that. Hopefully they don't go to the crusher. "A Flxible Is A Terrible Thing To Waste"
I agree; I will use that quote if you don't mind...I like it. :) And what does happen to them usually? I know of one used by a fire department, but does anyone know the whereabouts of other retired MTA Flxibles?
-F.
Hopefully, some are restored and kept as part of the museum fleet and others sold at auction, but I have no clue. When I took my Baltimore trip a couple of weeks ago, I spotted several GM New Looks at Bush, one of which might be ex-WMATA 6426. It would be great to save each at least one Flxible Metro/Grumman 870 in Baltimore's MTA fleet since retired for every year that they bought one. I saw about 5 New Looks in there, they should at least save one Grumman, and at least one Flxible 8300, 8400, 8500(surburban and transit), 8600.
Amen to that. If only our transit museum here wasn't Virginia-specific or we would have one...we can get away with DC, though. Hopefully, God willing, WMATA may learn of our efforts around the time they retire the very last Flxibles ever built...what a lovely treat it would be to have one of the 4100s.
-F.
Good, but not good. Good that some are still running around, but NOT good that they may be ousted by Neoplans. Is 8565 still in service?
-F.
Well, bus shortages are still a bit bad here, so the 85's may still linger for a time after the Neos arrive.
Bush Street's 8565 has been gone for about 2 years now. Interestingly, it was retired about the same time as the Operator (Mr. Hamilton) who was adamant about getting that bus. It had a great pick up getting away from the curb.
I *THINK* the roster of survivors is as follows:
BUSH (I know) has 8556 - 8559 - 8561 - 8566 - 8573 - 8575
EASTERN has 8515 - 8519 - 8528 - 8553
KIRK (I know) has 8541
NW has 8537 - 8542 - 8544 - 8546 - 8578 - 8579
The 8570's are the one door buses.
So, with all that info....can you give us an entire roster of the Baltimore MTA?
I'm trying to.
The 8600's are a piecemeal series to, but consists of more than simply a dozen or so buses. It's a little easier to count a handful of survivors of a series than figuring which 55 of an 80 series order is still active.
What I should be able to do is run check out sheets from each division for yesterday, and this should show which coaches in the entire fleet ran yesterday, and expand it from there.
Good idea! Thanks!
Oh, what a shame. So whatever happened to 8565 after she went away? And I assume the Seventies series of the 8500s were suburbans?
-F.
OK several questions-
Which mall is nicer, Palisades or Nanuet mall?
Which bus do I take to get there? I checked Red and Tan and the 11a seems to be the best route, but I thought someone said there was an express route from PABT to the mall.
Palisades, but be ready to walk a LOT.
-Hank
Palisades is THE best mall in the whole country since it is the 2nd largest mall in the whole country so be prepared to walk.you might actually get a good excercise out of it.I'm just dying to go there! You can take the 20 bus from the PABT to get there.It'll cost ya $5.85 one way.
I thought someone said the 20 runs express to the mall. According to the R&T schedule is does not and makes alot of stops, trip time well over 90 minutes from PABT to the mall.
I actually was curious about both malls. What is Nanuet mall like? Is it a small mall or something worth seeing?
Nanuet Mall is a more traditional regional Mall, like Roosevelt Field, but on a smaller scale. Palisades Center has the strangest combination of anchor tenants of any mall in the country, and is quite large (I haven't had time to check if it's the 2nd largest in the country). The Red & Tan 20 does take a long time from PABT (it goes by way of Nanuet Mall). You might check the Tappan Zee Express schedule to see if you can make better time by taking Metro North from Grand Central to White Plains or Tarrytown.
I've heard Palisades mall has had some problems. Some say the mall is "sinking", and I've heard in business reports the mall isn't doing too well.
I generally go for traditional malls, but I'm also an electronics buff, something Palisades may offer more of.
The R&T 20 is probably the cheapest way to go, I'm still debating on whether the trip is worth the $5.85 each way or not.
dont look at the schedule's of the R&T routes online,they're wayyy outdated.I have a schedule of the 20 from July of this year and it shows that there is a few express runs from the PABT at 9:55,11:55AM and 1:55 PM.
At it only takes an hour.The 20 that leave's at 9AM arrives at Palisades at 10:53AM.The next one after,the 9:55 out of PABT arrives there at the same time as the local.That's because the 9:55 goes non-stop from PABT-Nanuet Mall.I plan on taking that bus just so I can eventually make sure I get back home by 6:30PM since I also plan to go to Nanuet once I'm done at Palisades.
I went to both malls today and damn,Palisades Center is just awesome!!
4 floors worth stores and each floor is somewhere in the 200-500 feet range.Well actually the 4th floor has some restaurants like TGI Friday
plus a McDonalds.Plus there's the movie theater...oh yeah! and a batting cage too!I took my whacks at it....hit only 4 balls really.
The food court is good,with one set of food vendors on one side and another set on the otherside with a newstand in the middle.I give that mall an A+ all the way! I love it.Definantly worth going back.
Nanuet Mall isn't really all that much.I walked around it in under an hour! If you've ever seen the Staten Island Mall then Nanuet Mall looks like that,except it looks nicer yet smaller.To me the only real highlight is the Suncoast Store.There is an EB store too where I tried out that new game for the PS2,Tekken4.Pretty good,but I still say the PS2 SUCKS!!!! X-BOX RULES!!!! -cough,cough- ahem. s'cuse me. ^.^
Anyway,I give Nanuet Mall a C+ ranking. It's practically the SI Mall except alot nicer looking and smaller.They're both shaped the same way,like the letter "T".
Oh yeah,about the 20 bus from PABT.Despite the hour and 48min trip going local,it's still worth it,get a chance to see some places you never seen before.And yes there is an express route from PABT to Nanuet Mall and Palisades Center,NON-STOP!But it's not called the 20.
It's the 48 bus.It leaves the PABT at 7:35,9:55,11:55AM and 1:55PM.
I would guess from also gate 220.
If you take the 11C bus from Nanuet Mall to the GW Bridge bus station,
it'll cost you 60 cents less than from the PABT;$5.25.It's an hour and 23min trip and you get to see the Rockland Coaches Inc. garage since it goes right through it!I'm serious,I was really suprised when we went through there for a driver change.I wasn't expecting that.
I was waiting to do this trip for what seems like ages and you know what? I say it was WELL worth it!. Total time of trip:8 hours.
Sounds like Palisades center is awesome! Well SI Mall is nice, but anything smaller than SI aint worth the stop-off. Upscale and small are definately two words I don't wanna hear with a mall!
Palisades does sound nice though, so when I do my R&T trip that's where I'm gonna go! And I do love those electronics stores!
Which mall gets more bus riders? I have a strong feeling it was Palisades.
suprisingly it was Nanuet Mall that got more passengers than Palisades.I took the 20 from Palisades to Nanuet at 2:20PM and there was only 3 people or so with me.Who ever didnt get on waited for the
TOR route 59 or 92.At Nanuet there were at least double the people that I saw at Palisades.Palisades is a huge,awesome mall.That's a fact.BUT it's out in practically the middle of nowhere.No houses,nothing except some kinda factory that you can see from a distance.
Perhaps Nanuet mall is a larger transfer point?
I dunno.The buses that stop at Palisades Center are the TOR routes 59,91,92 and R&T route 20. At Nanuet,the same routes stop there with the addition of the 11A,11C and TOR 93.
I think that Nanuet is better than Palisades Center (probably because I never been there) but which mall has the best view for bus pics?
BUZZZZZZZZ!!!! You're way past wrong! Palisades Center is at least 20 times better than Nanuet.As I said in a past post a few days ago, Palisades Center is the 2nd largest mall in the country...and boy is it true.3 levels worth of stores,the 4th level has a theater,restuarants and a batting cage. Each floor is at least 2000-3000 feet in length.
The Nanuet is a smaller version of the Staten Island Mall.I walked Nanuet in under an hour.Both SI and Nanuet is shaped like the letter "T" and looks nicer than SI Mall.As for bus pics,At Palisades you can take pics of buses while eating your meal inside the mall. The view is on the side of the food court where the Nathan's is and the Merry-Go-Round ride for the kids.
There isn't any shops or houses around Palisades,just a view of some kinda factory and highway route 304 but that's where the buses are. Buses cross the overpass that gets them from one side to the other since the mall is on the south side of the highway.You really gotta go there.Trust me,it's REALLY worth the long trip.
Thanks!
your very welcome.
MALL RATS on parade
Come on now. This is the one chance that the Bustalk/Subtalk community has to fix up Qtraindash7. We've found someone with whom he shares a common interest (taking busses to malls). He's had some polite back and forth...
It's time for the next move, but where's Qtrain?!!!
I also love takeing buses to malls
DUH! Nanuet Mall is THE transfer point for TOR buses, while Palisades Center was set up as a TZX (Tappan Zee Express) transfer point which is why it's in a remote parking lot. HINT: Stay away from Nanuet Mall (or any mall) from Thanksgiving through New Years Day!!!
Are you saying the bus stop at Palisades is further from the mall then at Nanuet?
How much does it cost to travel between Palisades and Nanuet only?
If I have the time I may check both malls out, being that they are near eachother.
Is Nanuet mall in a busy (congested area)? I haven't been up to Rockland county in a very long time, last time was in the 80s and I remember it being pretty rural (this was the New City area).
just 90cents.there's actually more houses and small shops around and near Nanuet Mall where as there's practically nothing near Palisades Center.
Part of the Palisades Center was built on a cemetary.
I've even heard that part of it is a Colonial and/or Native American burial ground, but that's just a rumor I heard/read from various, unreliable sources - but if you noticed across from the bus stop at PC, there are several tombstones on that little mound.
[Which mall gets more bus riders? I have a strong feeling it was Palisades.]
In general, Nanuet Mall has better bus service than Palisades Center. I don't know whether that necessarily translates to more bus riders going to Nanuet than to Palisades.
PS2 is is good and X-box is good.Just beacuse the XBOX has the hardware.BTW play dead to rights.Anyway Palisades mall is hot.I was there on Saturday.
I went to both malls today and damn,Palisades Center is just awesome!!
4 floors worth stores and each floor is somewhere in the 200-500 feet range in length.Well actually the 4th floor has some restaurants like TGI Friday
plus a McDonalds.Plus there's the movie theater...oh yeah! and a batting cage too!I took my whacks at it....hit only 4 balls really.
The food court is good,with one set of food vendors on one side and another set on the otherside with a newstand in the middle.I give that mall an A+ all the way! I love it.Definantly worth going back.
Nanuet Mall isn't really all that much.I walked around it in under an hour! If you've ever seen the Staten Island Mall then Nanuet Mall looks like that,except it looks nicer yet smaller.To me the only real highlight is the Suncoast Store.There is an EB store too where I tried out that new game for the PS2,Tekken4.Pretty good,but I still say the PS2 SUCKS!!!! X-BOX RULES!!!! -cough,cough- ahem. s'cuse me. ^.^
Anyway,I give Nanuet Mall a C+ ranking. It's practically the SI Mall except alot nicer looking and smaller.They're both shaped the same way,like the letter "T".
Oh yeah,about the 20 bus from PABT.Despite the hour and 48min trip going local,it's still worth it,get a chance to see some places you never seen before.And yes there is an express route from PABT to Nanuet Mall and Palisades Center,NON-STOP!But it's not called the 20.
It's the 48 bus.It leaves the PABT at 7:35,9:55,11:55AM and 1:55PM.
I would guess from also gate 220.
If you take the 11C bus from Nanuet Mall to the GW Bridge bus station,
it'll cost you 60 cents less than from the PABT;$5.25.It's an hour and 23min trip and you get to see the Rockland Coaches Inc. garage since it goes right through it!I'm serious,I was really suprised when we went through there for a driver change.I wasn't expecting that.
I was waiting to do this trip for what seems like ages and you know what? I say it was WELL worth it!. Total time of trip:8 hours.
to add to my post,if you want you can pick a date to go there and we can go together if you want.
The MTA now realized that they didn't give free transfers on 9/8 so they put a yellow sign in buses saying that now they will provide an additional transfer between Brighton Beach & Stillwell Av(it started since Wednesday).
Now on B68 service, here's my proposal:
I would create a new limited stop sevice on the B68. It would make limited stops from Church Av to Brighton Beach train station.
Local buses: Would run from Church Av (Pritchard Square during the AM rush & afetr 2:30PM) to Stillwell Av to avoid confusion, particularly because of the Coney Island reconstruction.
Limied stop buses: Would run from Pritchard Sq to Stillwell Av
All stops to Church Av then limited stops to Brighton Beach train station then all stops to Stillwell Av.
Limited stops:(all stops on Coney Island Av unless specified)
Church Avenue
Cortelyou Road
18 Avenue
Foster Avenue(NB)
Avenue J
Avenue M
Kings Highway
Avenue U
Avenue Z
Neptune Avenue
Brighton Beach Avenue(On B.B. Av) train station
What do you guys think? I would like your opinions on this.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Limited stop is not a good idea unless buses can easily overtake each other. Even though Coney Island Ave. is 2 lanes in either direction, the lanes are quite narrow with lots of double parkers blocking the right lane. Due to traffic conditons and already poor service reliability of the B68, I think a limited would do more harm than good.
How is the B-6 limited service working out? The streets that the B-6 travels on are even narrower than Coney Island Avenue. And that Avenue J segment is a horror story Sunday through early Friday!
The last information I saw showed that the B6 Limited is not working out very well. Whatever time savings there are while the buses are in motion (and that's dubious) is made up in excessive dwell time at the stops the buses DO make. The Limited is so "successful" that the local service isn't used to any great extent (comparatively, at least). A more practical solution, therefore, would have been to keep the route local, but reduce the number of stops.
David
[Whatever time savings there are while the buses are in motion (and that's dubious) is made up in excessive dwell time at the stops the buses DO make.]
The same is true for limiteds in Queens, most notably the Q4, Q5, Q44, and Q85. At some timepoints, the limited gets the same running time as the local, or MORE; basically, passengers let empty locals pass and wait for (and cram into) crowded limiteds.
--At some timepoints, the limited gets the same running time as the local, or MORE; basically, passengers let empty locals pass and wait for (and cram into) crowded limiteds.--
Hey, they do that on the BX12 too!. God knows what would happen to the BX22 if LTD stop service were introduced.
What about the Bx55/Bx15/Bx41 situation local vs limited?
Bx55 takes long to show up, but can be better off than the locals
During some hours on the B41, this disparity also happens where people crowd the limited while local buses are sort of empty. Surprisingly, you can get a seat on a local SOMETIMES but from Church Av to Kings Plaza forget it.
Sometimes I wonder if limited stop buses on certain routes makes any sense (its created for a reason but sometimes locals aren't far behind. Ex:B6 where people fill the bus to the front stairway.
In addition, there is not enough service on the B68 at any time of the day to be able to split it into local and limited components, and outside of, say, Kings Highway and Avenue J, there aren't many stops where boarding/alighting is concentrated -- people board or alight all over the line, at least on the southern part.
David
i drove that line between 1981-1987 and it was a nightmare. it didnt help when sld booked route from a coffee shop and all buses appeared on time but thats another topic. limited stop service appears to be a greta idea from my perspective.
I have to disagree. The B 68 LTD could work on a peak direction rush hour service. It is only needed especially in AM to Windsor Terr and PM to CI. I know this has been mention several times here before
Yes, it's been mentioned here before, and I've shot it down each time. Look at the headways: there is not enough service to split it. Lest anyone suggest it, running more service on a line that doesn't need it just to have enough to split is not a wise use of taxpayers' money. By the way, this route doesn't have much of a "peak direction" -- it carries almost the same each way.
David
The TA tested it for a few days back in I think 1997. They put out Limted serivec out as a test. It did not work at all. I think it was that it was not part of the regueler secudle or the peolpe coming out of Brighting Beach did not know how to read the Limted signes in the Windows of the buses. I was at UP when they did this so I know about it.
Robert
If a all day weekday or peak direction limited won't for the B68, then I think it should run both ways but during rush hours.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
the b41 runs limited and buses have no problem overtaking each other. coney island avenue doesn`t come close to the double parkers and the width of the lanes like flatbush avenue.have you ever seen the x29 not able to pass the b68. that statement about not being able to overtake is pure nonsence.
I'm with Bill here. Coney Island Avenue is full of double-parkers, in the middays as well as in rush hours (when the X-29 shares road space with the B-68). Out of two lanes in each direction, with luck ONE in each direction will be usable, else it's one for BOTH directions in spots.
David
NA Transit has have the following updated recently:
Photo of the week:
New Flyer D40i Invero--St Catharines Transit
Regular Updated:
Southern California Engine/ Gearbox List/ Fleet Rosters Section Updated
Greater Toronto section updated, added 19 GO Transit commuter train photos. GO Transit roster is also updated.
New photo section in NA Transit: Winnipeg Transit
New York Transit Center:, section added. New York Bus Service, including picture of Fishbowl is being added under Bus Terminal.
NA Transit
I saw 5104 on the 92 at about 12:55 on Old Georgetown Road between Auburn and Arlington. The 92 is scheduled to run between 6 PM and 2 AM on Saturdays (and into Sunday morning). The Taste of Bethesda was this weekend so maybe that is why it was running. I also saw a Gillig following me on Old Georgetown Road but I couldn't see what number it was or which route it was, I am guessing it was the 47 though.
The B63, last week, has been returned to 5th Ave for as much as 60th to 75th Sts. Strangely, there are no stops between 72nd St/5th Ave and Bay Ridge Pkwy/4th Ave. I would think a Bay Ridge Pkwy/5th Ave stop should be there.
Well, my friend...
You complain about the lack of bus stops here...what about in Poughkeepsie, where the only bus stop signs in the entire 10-bus system are along Main street and at the Civic Center, which are in about 20% of the system reach? Talk about no bus stop signs, people up there know where the stops are only by contacting the company or getting off in the same place every day...
BTW, the bus system there (the City of Poughkeepsie Transit system, NOT the Dutchess County LOOP bus system) only runs from about 8am-6pm weekdays, 9am-5pm weekends and holidays.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC, do not click the link, just do your thing! Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC, do not click the link, just do your thing! Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
Personally I liked the other site better. I got some chuckles out of it.
It is amusing but doesn't get people to the chatroom. For anyone interested, the old link was to www.subtalklive.com.
5406 on the T2 in Rockville. This means 5406 is being borrowed up north or the weekend T2 now comes from the south.
The decal under the driver's window is actually a Maryland flag and says something to the effect of "Partner of Maryland Department of Transportation". I hope to get a closer look another time.
I think I saw 5602 at Rockville but I was not sure.
Do you think it would be better to have a Bx41 LIMITED bus continue to make LIMITED stops after Gun Hill Road?
Also they should expand the hours of Bx41 LIMITED (like the Bx12) because the Bx55 is very slow at times.
They have the Bx55 for that, although it is every other bus to Gun Hill Rd.
Yes, I believe they should make it a all day limited stop service because it gets backed up like crazy during non limited hours & it is slow.
Here's one thing that I don't know for sure maybe someone can answer this for me:
Does the Bx12 limited run on Saturdays (or weekends)? If it does not, how come since it gets crowded just like weekdays??
Any info is appreciated. Thanx
Nope,the Bx12 Limited is Weekdays only.
You may see a limited Bx12 on Saturdays ONLY if that particular run is running late in either direction.
[Do you think it would be better to have a Bx41 LIMITED bus continue to make LIMITED stops after Gun Hill Road?]
Would be nice, IF Limiteds could pass locals under the elevated structure. Since nobody can pass anybody under the structure, the Limiteds might as well make all stops.
I think it would be a waste since you have 2's all times and 5's during rush hours, when 41's run so I think it would be duplicating train stops. I only rode the Bx55 once & I only had to wait like 2 minutes for it but they should expand the hours of the Bx41 limited since it does have strong ridership.
I had to wait 15 minutes for the Bx55
You think thats bad i had to wait 40 minutes for a BX31 to come on 233rd going to 225 street today.Lucky it was a artic 5281 to be exact.
Uh does anyone take the BX31.I think they should make that route all artics
Sorry to go off topic but since you guys are talking about long waiting time, one time I had to wait 40 minutes for the B68 during RUSH HOUR and only one, that's right ONE bus came!! (the late night waiting time) Now thats horrible.
That reminds me the times when you had to wait for B 68 at Pichard Sq and it was about 35 - 45 minutes daily. it always seem to happen between the hours of 3: 30pm to 5:30pm. Go Figure!!
I take the BX31, and no the route cannot undergo articulated conversion: Gunhill barely has enought busses to run its existing artic routes, and creating another artic route would cause a meltdown at gun hill, and the collapse of all other artic routes. 1 less bus on the BX12 ( especially) , BX39, BX22, or BX40/42 equals hell.
Yeah.You take the 31 .Where.Dont you wish tyhe 31 had artics.Its hell on that line durning rush hour.Well anyway.I saw orionV #409,410,411,and 412 on the Bx31 today
Ill-Onions!!!
#9444 BX31
If you guys thought the F train GO 2 weeks ago was bad, ride this one & you'll know what i'm saying. All I got to say is MASS CONFUSION. Man, I got a story to tell.(I'll put the buses that I saw & the depots that operated on it in another post)
Ok, I start out by taking R68 2903 on the Q from Newkirk Av, go to Atlantic Av take R62A 1959 on the 3 to 135 St, since I missed the previous 2 & I was not waiting on that hot platform. At 135, I wait for the 2, which I ride R142 6745 to 149 St. Now here's the bus part:
I take the express bus, artic 5484 via the Bruckner to E180 St station.Very good driver, too bad most (or all) artics has a 40 mph limit. Buses after the Tremont Av exit went down Tremont all the way to White Plains Road then turned on Morris Park Av to E180 St [probably for safety reasons & to be in front of the station.] So I decide to ride the local to see more buses. So I get on hybrid 6359 and the entire ride to 149 St was SLOW it didn't go faster than 20 mph literally! This was because of slow traffic plus the Hub reconstruction.
So to make it up I decide to take 2 more round trips but expresses only. I get on RTS 9200 and things got even more stressful from here. Ok, the exp. turns on 149 from GC goes up Exterior St to the Bruckner then Tremont, WPR, & Morris Park. This driver nearly got us lost, top it off with bad a/c, a guy w/no teeth who was maknig a fool of himself and the driver is going UNDER the speed limit of 50 mph(he hit 50 at one point but he went 30-35 most of the time). He turns on 138 St, somehow he ends up on the Major Deegan, goes the wrong way, U turns onto the NB Major Deegan gets off at Yankee Stadium runs down 161 St goes back down the wrong way on Bruckner then we go around & we're back to the 'normal' route.
Then I got on RTS 8926 towards 149 St & the ride is good but I was stressed out already but I continue my trips promising myself to do 3 round trips or I would be disappointed. Then I ride RTS 8385 to E 180 & this driver was awesome. It sounded like he went 60-65 mph on the Bruckner & was the best driver I had (should of said thanks but I went through the back door). I was hoping to ride a brooklyn depot bus but I just missed 5114 of FB, so I took the next bus, artic 5372 back to 149 St. Had wonderful a/c.
Then its back down to the train where I wait for the 4 & I take R62 1611 to Atlantic, rather than waiting for the 2 at 149 St to catch the Q, where I board R68 2768. Since trains were skipping Newkirk, I had to go to Kings Hwy & wait for a MB local. I get to Kings Hwy, as I get out the train, a MB arrived & the people are just taking their time & this pissed me off because these dumbass people (pardon my language) crossover & it ends up leaving & we had to wait 10 minutes for the next train, which was a R68A, which I boarded 5020 and I went home.
Best driver: Driver of 8385 excellent driving. Might of picked 5484 had it not been for the speed cap.
Worst driver: Driver of 9200 for driving under the speed limit on the Bruckner, going the wrong way & making the passengers more frustrated than they already were.
Crazy story huh.
Going Buses I rode Coming back
R68 2903(Q) Artic 5484 KB R62 1611(4)
R62A 1959(3) Hybrid 6359 MV R68 2768(Q)
R142 6745(2) RTS 9200 126 R68A 5020(Q)
RTS 8926 MV
RTS 8385 QV
Artic 5372 GH
If you guys thought the F train GO 2 weeks ago was bad, ride this one & you'll know what i'm saying. All I got to say is MASS CONFUSION. Man, I got a story to tell.(I'll put the buses that I saw & the depots that operated on it in another post)
Ok, I start out by taking R68 2903 on the Q from Newkirk Av, go to Atlantic Av take R62A 1959 on the 3 to 135 St, since I missed the previous 2 & I was not waiting on that hot platform. At 135, I wait for the 2, which I ride R142 6745 to 149 St. Now here's the bus part:
I take the express bus, artic 5484 via the Bruckner to E180 St station.Very good driver, too bad most (or all) artics has a 40 mph limit. Buses after the Tremont Av exit went down Tremont all the way to White Plains Road then turned on Morris Park Av to E180 St [probably for safety reasons & to be in front of the station.] So I decide to ride the local to see more buses. So I get on hybrid 6359 and the entire ride to 149 St was SLOW it didn't go faster than 20 mph literally! This was because of slow traffic plus the Hub reconstruction.
So to make it up I decide to take 2 more round trips but expresses only. I get on RTS 9200 and things got even more stressful from here. Ok, the exp. turns on 149 from GC goes up Exterior St to the Bruckner then Tremont, WPR, & Morris Park. This driver nearly got us lost, top it off with bad a/c, a guy w/no teeth who was maknig a fool of himself and the driver is going UNDER the speed limit of 50 mph(he hit 50 at one point but he went 30-35 most of the time). He turns on 138 St, somehow he ends up on the Major Deegan, goes the wrong way, U turns onto the NB Major Deegan gets off at Yankee Stadium runs down 161 St goes back down the wrong way on Bruckner then we go around & we're back to the 'normal' route.
Then I got on RTS 8926 towards 149 St & the ride is good but I was stressed out already but I continue my trips promising myself to do 3 round trips or I would be disappointed. Then I ride RTS 8385 to E 180 & this driver was awesome. It sounded like he went 60-65 mph on the Bruckner & was the best driver I had (should of said thanks but I went through the back door). I was hoping to ride a brooklyn depot bus but I just missed 5114 of FB, so I took the next bus, artic 5372 back to 149 St. Had wonderful a/c.
Then its back down to the train where I wait for the 4 & I take R62 1611 to Atlantic, rather than waiting for the 2 at 149 St to catch the Q, where I board R68 2768. Since trains were skipping Newkirk, I had to go to Kings Hwy & wait for a MB local. I get to Kings Hwy, as I get out the train, a MB arrived & the people are just taking their time & this pissed me off because these dumbass people (pardon my language) crossover & it ends up leaving & we had to wait 10 minutes for the next train, which was a R68A, which I boarded 5020 and I went home.
Best driver: Driver of 8385 excellent driving. Might of picked 5484 had it not been for the speed cap.
Worst driver: Driver of 9200 for driving under the speed limit on the Bruckner, going the wrong way & making the passengers more frustrated than they already were.
Crazy story huh.
Going
R68 2903(Q)
R62A 1959(3)
R142 6745(2)
Buses I rode
Artic 5484 KB
Hybrid 6359 MV
RTS 9200 126
RTS 8926 MV
RTS 8385 QV
Artic 5372 GH
Coming back
R62 1611(4)
R68 2768(Q)
R68A 5020(Q)
R68A 5020(Q)
Ok, for the people who rode the 2/5 shuttle bus(I went yesterday), you saw that this GO was worse and more stressful than the F 2 weeks ago. In a previous post I wrote a story on what I sae & the stress I went through. Hope you guys get a chance or are interested in reading it.
Almost every depot worked on the GO, except AMS(unless it was there & I didnt see any buses), YUK and CAS. Lots of QV buses were there.
Here are the buses I saw:
126:8196,8452,7041,5051,5047,7541,9042,9200,8218
KB:5484,5413,5482,5477,1075,1088. RTS:8840
UP:7531,7523,4769,9310,9321,9323
JA:8958,9566,5161,8968,4572
MCH:207,6040,240,205,173,194,186,174
ENY:8126,5233,4984,8917
FP:9181,9163,9183,9573,9574
QV:8393,8376,8371,8385,8362,8352,8365,8378,8377,8390,8356 Orions:507,512
CS:571,296,642,549
MV:8987,8752,8926,8751,4822,9004,4825,4795 Hybrid:6359
FB:8433,8337,9426,5093,5114,8406
JG:8681,8676,8533,8536,8565
GH:5267,5337,5372 RTS:8050 Orion:408
MJQ:9630,8612,8614,8649,5170
HP:9617,5202,4552,8490
I think there actually WAS an Amsterdam bus this weekend so far, but I don't remember the number(s).
Cleanairbus
ITS IN SESSION
IGNORE WMATAGMOAGH
HES TRYING TO CLOSE IT DOWN
SUPPORT SUBTALKLIVE AND CHAT NOW
Chatham Square (formerly SubTalk Live) is open on Saturday nights at 7:30 PM ET unless otherwise posted by an operator. See you all Saturday night!
but its accessible now
so lets PARTAY
come and blast ur hed off with all that bus and train info
I clicked the site and this message is what I got:
Chatham Square is closed. Chatham Square will be open again next Saturday at 7:30 ET. Look for announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk. Thank you.
I love to PARTAY by myself in a closed site.
I know that I'm risking a chance here by asking but can the webmaster e-mail me so I can e-mail him back? Or can anyone of you guys e-mail his address? I really do appreciate this. Thanks to whomever sends the address.
Use the feedback form, a link is available at the top of the page in the right hand corner.
heres link
Click here
Fuzzy forgot to mention something.
Chatham Square is closed. Chatham Square will be open again next Saturday at 7:30 ET. Look for announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk. Thank you.
I visit east ny depot and they have a spot for the buses now. Right under the train tracks. Now why could they have done that before the B8 move?????
Because they no longer park them on Broadway.
My question are when the 100 street depot reopen ??? We all know the M101 and M103 will go back home where they belong.
Question:
Will manhattenville keep all those buses since 100 street depot are suppose to be getting artic???
Will manhattenville split 8700, 8900 and 9000 series?
Who will be entering manhattenville depot? That depot is so big?
There will only be the M2, M3, M4, M5 and the M60 then
Or will this depot be turn into orion buses?
Can some one answer these questions and no rumor!
you forgot to mention the M18 as well.
[Or will this depot be turn (sic) into orion buses?]
It's pretty difficult to turn a depot (which houses buses) into buses (which need a depot for storage). The alchemists of old tried that with lead and gold, to no avail.
Unless...
Rumplestiltskin has relocated to an imaginary place called Manhatten and has changed his name to Rumplestiltskion.
"Who will be entering manhattenville depot? That depot is so big? "
Maybe very large bus operators?
BTW, it's ManhattAn, not ManhattEn ........
Today while I was racing along the Beltway S/B near Greenbelt I spotted two MC-9B heading N/B. Both were painted plain white.
Wayne
Yes they going also.
Troy
Some of the 9Bs were gone in 2000. DeCamp turned in quite a few of their 9Bs as did Rockland Coaches when the initial D4000s came in.
When the order is completed, their will be no MC-9s left. NJT will have the 77 CNGs 102D3s, the 1360 D4000/4500 diesels, and the 4 electric D4000s. (Recent MCI press releases have said there are only 76 CNGs, so NJT may have lost one.)
Ofcourse, NJ Transit will preserve one of each for their historic bus fleet right?
Maybe. Unfortunately, the original demo 6100 (non Jersey cap) was destroyed in an accident just as the first batch of D4000s came in, although its twin 6101 is still around somewhere. Don't think they kept an Eagle, but I imagine one Jersey cap 9A and one 9B might stick around.
I still see 6101 as a training bus at the Vince Lombardi service area.
Troy
I know Decamp doesn't have any more 9's. Does Wayne still have any? I think Howell still has some b's. 6101 is at Hilton, as a training, bus but probably not for long. And the South Jersey garages definately has some 9's left.
Tony
Red & Tan (Rockland Coach) seems to have the most 9's around, but I guess that is because none of its D4500's have come in yet. I've also seen a number of 9B's on Community routes. I suspect it is more likely that a few of the 9's will be kept by some of the privates rather than by NJ Transit. Do the privates have to return their 9's to the state when they receive new buses, or can they keep them?
I think they can choose to buy there buses out, I am not sure though.
Tony
I think the 9B's are the MCI's with the 6V-92 that I used to see on the Willowbrook park and ride and 163. If they are on their way out, what a shame, I will miss them. They were still in fine shape, and they were fast!
These buses still seem to operate fine, and they should easily find new owners.
[These buses still seem to operate fine, and they should easily find new owners.]
Many of the 9B's have been sold on the second-hand market already. Monroe Bus has quite a few of them (ex-DeCamp buses, I think). There is a transit authority in the Hilton Head, SC, area that has a few of them. The 9B's are pretty easy to spot because of the oversized front destination sign.
OH yeah. I can spot those things from a mile away; what a unique setup. I have seen a few of them for sale at Sawyer's Bus Sales in Shawsville, VA, just 30 minutes west of Roanoke. I don't know if anyone is in the market for one, but they usually have at least one or two there should you wish to snap one up, although I know it's quite a drive for most of you on the board.
Please note: I am in no way connected with the above business, I just wanted to let you know what's out there in the way of ex-NJT MC-9Bs.
-F.
Both the 9A and 9B have the DD 6V92 engine.
Wayne
5406 was on the T2 yesterday and 5717 was on it today. Safe to assume it is now coming from Silver Spring?
Also, I saw 5409 on the 1 and L8.
I will be out of town starting tomorrow morning. I will be back Wednesday night. Talk to you all then!
On Trevor's site, under OC Transport pics for Orions, I am looking at the Orion V pics. Some of the Orions have a huge rear glass window and roof mounted HVAC.
Was this normal or was this special ordered?
Why couldn't NYC order them like that?
The first order of Orion Vs to OC Transpo (notOC Transport) delivered in 1991 came with a more standard configuration: no back window and rear-mounted a/c which is slightly different in appearance from a/c units on most Orion Vs. This was the first batch of air conditioned buses in Ottawa, and OC Transpo was not happy with the loss of the rear window. On their next order, they speced roof-mounted air conditioning and the rear window was restored. To my knowledge, OC Transpo's 9200-series Orion Vs are the only Vs with roof-mounted HVAC, but they certainly are not the only Vs with rear windows. Non a/c Orion Vs with the rear window are reasonably common in Canada; there are also some at Monterey-Salinas Transit in California.
Also, South Portland Bus Service (Maine) and GATRA in Attleboro, Mass have Orion Vs like that...
Cleanairbus
I spent the weekend in Philly dancing Argentine Tango. Saturday, I rode the M-F line to Frankford, #73 bus to Westmoreland Street, #15 bus to 63rd street. Walked up the street and caught the #10 trolley to Malvern, then to 37th street portal. Changed to the #36 and rode to the end, back to 49th street, caught the #11 trolley to the end at Darby, then walked up the hill to catch the #13 to 37th street portal, then #34 trolley to Agora. On the return, the trolley went dead. Actually, on life support. The operator couldn't get any traction power even though the MG was operating. (I could hear it hum.) I also heard the operator hum as in "HMMM. I wonder what's wrong.) Everybody left the trolley and the next trolley pushed it off the line to the 37th street portal.
I noticed that the tracks HAVEN'T been pulled up nor overhead taken down on the 15 route. If trolleys were taken off many years ago, why is the overhead still up?
I also noticed that there are alot of tracks and overhead up where trolleys don't go anymore. Are these tracks and overhead up in case of diversions, as today where subway-service was suspended in the tunnels due to overhead work. Supposedly, trolleys were detoured to the MF stop at 40th and Market.
Just wondering -- and a little confused.
Michael
Washington, DC
Why isn't this on SubTalk?
It's not clear whic board talk about Philly trolleys belongs. Above ground, trolleys are like buses and belong on Bus Talk. Below ground, they operate like subways and belong on Sub Talk. My post dealt with above ground running so I put it in bus talk.
Michael
Washington DC
WEll, about the 15-they are restoring it, but there are a lot of trolley tracks and overheads on a lot of former bus routes. The 15, 23, and 56 were made temporary bus routes in 1992. The trolleys do have an alternate route to 40th and market, since there is work being done in the tunnel.
The first of 18 rebuilt PCCs is supposed to arrive early next year for service on the rebuilt 15 line. The 23 and 56 lines are still pretty much passable, and see service on charters from time to time. They are slated to be resumed sometime after 2007 with new cars, though many doubt this will come to pass.
And personally, I think streetcars are right at home on BUSTalk, since both are corner to corner surface transit.
I noticed that the tracks HAVEN'T been pulled up nor overhead taken down on the 15 route. If trolleys were taken off many years ago, why is the overhead still up?
Because trolley service will be returning to the 15 in early 2004.
at the apta conference in las vegas the weekend of september 21.
Steve Hoskins photo
Guess LA is comfortable with the current body design...for now.
Great photo, BTW.
!nice
Had this past entire Saturday all to myself, a definite rarity. As far as I can remember, I never rode buses in all five boroughs in one day. Of course, this endeavor was interrupted by subway and ferry. I was also determined to ride all four major models of TA bus.
Walked from home to Union Street & 26th Avenue. Q44 1993 or '96 Orion to Parkchester.
BX36 1996 Nova to Boston & 180th. Despite route no longer going around Hugh Grant Circle, but turning left from White Plains onto service road stop on NE corner of service road & WPR still has 36 on sign along with 44. Interesting ride over renovated 174th Street bridge, which transverses Amtrak ROW, Bronx River, Sheridan Expressway and lots of underbrush.
Walked east on 180th to Morris Park. Five or six shuttles lined up in front of station entrance- mostly from 126th and Flatbush, with one Artic. Huge mob of people; approximately 10:30 AM. Dispatchers were busy explaining where to get locals versus expresses. There were dedicated stands for each. Got 1999 RTS probably out of Flatbush- low 5000 number. Fairly crowded; opted to stand to get good view off elevated Bruckner. Decent ride down Sheridan, Bruckner and around the horn up Deegan to 149th. Some engine straining. Dumped on SE corner of Concourse & 149th. Entire east side curb of Concourse lined with buses of every conceivable type and generation.
Saw natural gas Orion 63XX pass on Bronx-bound BX19. Only previous sighting in past year was on Manhattanville's M4 and on Amsterdam Avenue- forget if on Hale's M7 or Hudson's M11. Spotted 1999 Orion on Manhattan-bound BX19 coming and figured I'd ride it over the bridge to Saint Nicholas and get A or D. Extremely crowded, no doubt due to lack of subway service from Hub. Not enough people got off to relieve crowding, so I took the 4 to Union Square, then 6 to Astor Place.
Used restroom in K-mart, then walked down Saint Mark's to 2nd Avenue. Rehabbed 7500-series RTS M15 Limited to Ferry. Like all buses of that type, very smooth engine sounds and acceleration; very rough, chipped, peeling seats. Bus stop sign on Pearl next to Police HQ reads "Pearl Street & Pearl Street".
12:00 ferry to Saint George; S46 to West Shore Plaza. Like all other Staten Island buses I rode that day, a 1999 Orion. Castleton Avenue is extremely winding, with many rolling hills. From Port Richmond through Mariners' Harbor, the route takes many turns on some extremely narrow streets (some two-way!). There were speed bumps, which I thought weren't allowed on bus routes, on Van Pelt Avenue and Maple Parkway. Saw out-of-service '93 or '96 Orion headed north on Morningstar Road. Having never seen northwest S.I. up close, it more resembled a faded blue-collar industrial city than the suburban tract housing for which Staten Island is famous. Once we headed south on South Avenue, and attained decent speed, there were open fields on the right and new housing on the left, then a huge Jersey-type office park (with a Jersey-type jughandle left turn leading into it!) on both sides. There was a gated railroad crossing that the bus didn't stop for between the expressway overpass and the shopping center, which looked horribly desolate with anchor Caldor having gone under.
Someone told me that there's a continuous service road along the West Shore from South Avenue to Victory Boulevard, less than a mile away. They were wrong. I was forced to walk along the northbound shoulder between the Exit 8 off-ramp and Exit 7 on-ramp with no problems. Just as I got to Victory, a Ferry-bound S62 arrived. Travis is another area I've never seen. It looked almost as rural as Tottenville, but new housing appeared as we got closer to Bull's Head.
Got off at Richmond Avenue for Eltingville-bound S59. The access road and bus stop system on Mall property looks extremely confusing. There's a strange contrast between the huge suburban sprawl on the east side of the avenue and open brush on the west. We passed the Yukon depot, which fenced off land on the opposite side of Forest Hill Road in which to store what looked like dozens of MCIs. No RTS seen outside depot or through open doors. I did see the day's second S61 that was a 100-series converted express Orion (the first was in front of us leaving the ferry terminal).
SIR to Old Town, walked to Hylan for Brooklyn-bound S79. Arrived at 86th Street within ten minutes.
New Flyer B16 to Fort Ham & 62nd.
N to Pacific; 4 to Union Square, 6 to 23rd. Saw another natural gas Orion on southbound M1 and several empty QS express Orions pass west on 23rd. After LONG wait, very crowded Artic M23. The annoying phenomenon of people taking the crosstown bus two stops- combined with the TA cutting schedules by trying to pass off Artics as two buses for the price of one- is not restricted to the 79 and 86. Extremely long dwell times at every stop to 8th Avenue.
E to 7th Avenue; used restroom at Sheraton; walked up 7th to 55th; W to Queensboro; 7 to Flushing. College Point-bound 1999 Orion Q20A home.
Factoring in lunch and horrible delays on W and 7, this all took eight and a half hours.
"(with a Jersey-type jughandle left turn leading into it!)"
That is actually Teleport Drive, and I believe is the only jughandle in the City Of New York.
Isn't the Teleport a Port Authority building? I'm guessing it's an office park of some sort, however as a radio buff, is there are lot of radio stuff there? (somehow teleport indicates it has a theme of communication)
From The Port Authority Website:
The Teleport in Staten Island, New York, is a joint economic development venture of the Port Authority, the City of New York and Teleport Communication Group (TCG), a private telecommunications service provider. The 100-acre business park houses five Class A office and specialized buildings and a communications center that includes a 400-mile regional fiber optic network operating center linked to a satellite transmission facility.
The Port Authority, originator of the Teleport concept and overall project developer, has real estate development and management responsibility for the business park, with a long term lease arrangement with the City of New York. TCG has sole responsibility for developing, operating and maintaining the communications facilities and services associated with The Teleport, including on-site shared tenant services.
Over 22,500 square feet of technologically enhanced office space at the Telecenter building and approximately 30 acres for development are available.
I think SI Cable is also there. Sounds like an interesting place.
si cable records from a studio on forest and south.
I have to explore the Travis area of Staten Island sometime, it appears pretty rural, like Tottenville.
SI's south shore and west shores are my favorite, I like things flat, definately not a big fan of hills and narrow streets (oh wait, that's Sea Cliff!).
Sounds like a fun and exhausting day. You didn't take any pics did you?
travis is my area. it is indeed very much country. the deserted caldor mall serviced by the s46 will soon see new life as caesars bay bazaar years ago a brooklyn staple will relocate there. besides the teleport a new hotel has opened behind it. however it is not readily accesible by bus.
Naw, I pretty much stopped taking pictures when my wife took over job as official photographer. I don't have the patience to try to line up shots of moving objects such as buses and subways. Besides, after having read Salaam's assorted horror stories, I'd think twice about photographing ANY public property!
I've been to Tottenville several times. It's quite charming, being remote as it is from everything. There's basically one of everything: bar, deli, Chinese, pizza, etc. There's also a nice waterfront park from which you can clearly see Perth Amboy.
Travis really doesn't have a downtown from what I can see, just a large shopping center and park & ride by the Victory Boulevard exit off the West Shore. Before that expressway went through in 1976, it must've really been a dead-end community- literally. At least, the smell of the landfill that plagued the area for decades was largely absent this past warm, humid Saturday.
If you don't like narrow, hilly streets, don't take any bus out of the ferry terminal. That covers virtually all of them, except for the 40 along Richmond Terrace and the 51 and 76 along Bay Street.
The funny part is, I didn't have to wait more than five minutes for any Staten Island bus- and this on a Saturday schedule! I didn't download any schedules from the TA website, either. The longest I had to wait for a bus was the M23- almost fifteen. There was a street fair on 23rd west of 8th that may have been a factor.
The buses in SI are very good. It's a good example of an almost Nassau like situation, but with good bus service. If they can do it in SI, they can surely do it here in Nassau county.
Tottenville feels quite isolated, just like Sea Cliff, but like you said, Tottenville has everything is village should have, like pizza chinese food,etc.
Many years ago, there was a ferry boat that ran from the foot of Victory Boulevard in Travis across to Carteret, New Jersey. So, Travis wasn't really a "dead end community" back then.
Interesting day. It would be even more interesting if you were to include the actual fleet numbers of the buses you rode. Otherwise, your day seemed like loads of fun.
Mark
True, but it would be difficult for me to whip out a pad and pencil to make notes on every bus I ride, especially if I'm running to catch one. I try to travel light- hands free, fanny pack with cell phone and map.
I do make a conscious effort to observe the model and generation of bus I'm riding. On Staten Island, that's not too hard. On weekends, it seems like everything on the local routes is a 1999 Orion- except on the 61, where they seem to favor 1993 converted express Orions.
Some depots in Manhattan and Brooklyn are much more interesting. For instance, Fresh Pond carries five distinct generations of RTS: 1987 (46-4800-series); 1990 (8000-series); 1996 (9100-series); 1998 (hard-seated 9500-series); 1999 (carpet-seated 5000-series). Quill seems to have virtually the same assortment.
And then you have the occasional RTS on the S79, unless THEY get transferred elsewhere by now...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
>>>Got 1999 RTS probably out of Flatbush- low 5000 number.
Low-5000-series? That's most likely an East New York Depot bus, from 5000-5025 are in ENY, 5026-5054 are 126th Street Depot buses.
>>>Saw natural gas Orion 63XX pass on Bronx-bound BX19. Only previous sighting in past year was on Manhattanville's M4 and on Amsterdam Avenue- forget if on Hale's M7 or Hudson's M11.
Two things...
1- The Orion 6300s in Mother Clara Hale Depot are not natural gas buses, they are Orion VI hybrid-electric...as it says on the forehead of the bus right over the front half of the bus.
2- The M11 is a Hudson Depot line, not a Mother Hale line, ONCE a Manhattanville line, but Orion VIs were almost inexistent on that line.
>>>I did see the day's second S61 that was a 100-series converted express Orion (the first was in front of us leaving the ferry terminal).
The 1993 Orion Vs that you saw on the S61 and the bus that left the ferry terminal were not converted from suburban to transit-style, they were just left alone and used on the S.I. local routes.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Can someone give me a route description of the local and express routes for the shuttles in the Bronx? As "Howard Fein" posted in his trip around the five boroughs, there is a local and express. Again, can someone give the route descriptions please? Thanks to whomever answers this.
Ok Nova Bus, here's the answer to your question:
Express route
Toward 180 St: Bus leaves from Grand Conc, turns left on 149 St, left on Exterior St, down to the Major Deegan, then goes on the ramp that leads to Bruckner Blvd/Expwy, got off the expwy at the Tremont Av exit, we go down the road leading to Tremont, right on Tremont Av, left on White Plains Rd, left on Morris Park Av to 180 St on Morris Pk Av.
Toward 149 St: Bus leaves from Morris Park Av, right on Tremont Av, left on a road that leads to the Bruckner, goes via the Bruckner, then goes on the Major Deegan, get off at the 149 St exit and back to the Concourse.
Local route:
Toward 149 St: Bus leaves from Morris Park Av, right on Tremont Av, then it goes down Tremont, turning left on Boston Rd, left on Southern Blvd, right on Westchester Av, right on 149 St, following the el/subway line to 149 St/Grand Conc.
Toward 180 St:
I did not ride the local this way but it should have been the reverse of buses toward 149 St except once it reached Tremont, it went straight to White Plains Rd, made a left, then another left on Morris Park Av to 180 St on Morris Pk Av.
Express toward E. 180: After leaving Sheridan Expway the stree leading to Tremont Ave is DeVoe Ave or slightly to the left is E. 177th Street.
Express toward 149th Street: The left turn from Tremont Ave is onto E. 177th Street, then Sheridan Expway to the Bruckner.
I think that because the Sheridan Expressway is so short - it's not well known. It begins at the E. 177th Street and ends when it merges into the Bruckner near E. 163rd Street. NYBS' Morris Park Ave route also uses the Sheridan to/from the Bruckner.
Wayne
I was right before it was E177 St but I deleted it because I thought it was wrong. Oh,its called the Sheridan Expwy??? Doesn't look like one in that condition. Thanks for the info
Thanks! "Flatbush41" and Wayne for your answers!
Your welcome.
Glad I could help!
Wayne
This afternoon, Broadway was closed down from Worth Street to who knows where south on Broadway. Only MTA Buses allowed to travel south. It seemed like a dispatcher was telling the operators of the M1 and M6 to turn down Murray and from there where to I don't know. I saw an X1 and X17 go down, and they made the turn at Park Row to go along South Street.
Does anyone have any information on this detour and the reasons behind it?
"Any information is greatly appreciated."
I think it has to do with the "mock" parades and such, so NYC can show they are ready for the 2012 Olympics.
Broadway was closed because they are doing a mock parade in their effort to host the 2012 Olympics. I'm not sure if they had the ticker tape parade for it the same day. Maybe someone can answer this for me.
Thanx
Well, i was able to make my LIBUS trip on friday connecting with N24,N79 and the N94. All buses made good time. I was able to get over to the LIBUS garage at Mitchell Field(wont say how close for fear that someone from LIBUS would get in truoble). Here are the Orion V and Gilligs i saw:
Orion V:639,647,629,622,601,648,633.
ORion V(With MSBA labels):634,581,609,621,638,586,585,641,649.
out of service orion v: 616,589,624,609,579.
Gilligs:503,530,548.
I was told that most of the Gilligs are parked in Amitivylle. Though i do not know where.
N24-183-Orion V-CNG
N79-314-Orion V-CNG
N94-645-Orion V
>>I was told that most of the Gilligs are parked in Amitivylle. Though i do not know where<<
That would be the Zahn's depot located in New Horizons office park. This ofice park was once Zahn's Airport.
It's located off of Wellwood Ave. near Rte. 109. It is an unmanned facility and just for storage of OOS buses. It's all fenced in and there is vinyl covering the fences so it hard to see inside.
Bill "Newkirk"
Does this Zahn's depot have other OOS buses besides LI Bus?
>>Does this Zahn's depot have other OOS buses besides LI Bus?<<
Nope, it's strictly a LI Bus facility. Mainly used for dead storage of retired buses. \
Bill "Newkirk"
Maybe they share the depot with ST for the Gilligs?
LI Buses do make great time in central and southern Nassau. I'll admit my experiences, have a lot to do with the North shore, since that's where I do most of my LI Bus riding.
If ypu're worried about getting into trouble walking unauthorized on LI Bus property, you should be. You couldn't have gotten those bus numbers without physically tresspassing. Every move you made was videotaped and the Security Department is very strict.
Dear Joe:
there is an area behind libus garage where the N27 goes by that you can go by. I know maintenance guys asked me what I was doing there and kept an eye on me-they seemed impressed I was knowledgeable about the LIBus Fleet. I did show them id and had no problem. Was not Allowed INTO the garage, just saw what was parked outside.
So basically, the shuttles (N91, N93, N94 and N95) are using regular buses? I thought they were using those FORD vans (#2000-2052).
The Ford Vans are gone from LIBus. Many of them are being scrap or being sent to BOCES Complanys. A few are still running but they now running in ParaTransit Service.
The N91 is not a Shuttle Route,It's a Regular Route run by(Almost 95 % of the time)Part Timers at LIBus. All these routes are running OrionV Diesels but I have saw The 1996 Orion V CNG's being used on the JFK Flyer( I heard a sighting of it a few times) and on The Nassau Hub Shuttle.
Anouther Line that is all OrionV Diesels is N26 and N28. Also 2 Trips on the N22A have all OrionV Diesels.
The 10:45 AM from 165 St Terminal and 2:40 PM from Roosevelt Field on the N22A tend to have Orion V Diesels nearly all the time. Out of all the times I rode both of those trips only 1 time I had something other then a OrionV Diesel on N22A,That was 133 on the 10:45 out of 165 St Terminal
I assume the Orion diesels pop up many places on LI Bus. I saw bus #611 on the N25 this past Saturday. I was surprised that Saturday service isn't all CNG buses system-wide.
I think all the Ford cutaways have been scrapped. Those routes seem to use diesel Orions in the 600s and CNG's in the 100s.
Well, had off today and made it to Yukon Depot as promised. I was able to notice Yukon had #130(orion V)-operating on the S61 as a local even though seats are express. Also saw #124 parked inside as well as RTs #3969,#8298 and #8303. One thing i did see which was odd was i saw Orion V #138 this morning on the Q32 with Yukon stickers on both sides. Is this bus going back to Yukon?
X1-#2114-MCI
S61-#6331-Orion V
S53-#6209-Orion V
B64-#7532-Remanufactured RTS
B68-#818-Flyer.
Also, #4497 is running well on the B64-saw it today.
Paid more attention this time. The bus is a fishbowl in white with red and blue trim. It reminds me of those relics DC loaned New York back in the 80s, or of the CTA color scheme. They have a totally phony license plate on it with no writing above or below, just letters and numbers.
But here's the good part. They left what looks like an authentic cloth marker, white on black, untouched. It reads 30 Crosstown, with smaller lettering to the right. Can anybody put these two clues together?
What happens? You get 2 transfers for riding the B68 instead of one? Meaning I could take the B68 to the subway and then get on a bus after that, all in one fare?
From what the bus flyer said, you get 2 transfers IF you ride the 68 between Brighton Beach and Stillwell Av to the train so it has to be or it wouldn't make sense.
I would do this(unless they are doing this already):
People coming from the train needing to get to Stillwell, W 8 or Ocean Pkwy should get block transfers or paper Metrocard transfers similar to the Franklin shuttle reconstruction in 1998/'99. going to Brighton, people going to Brighton Beach should get on free(only at Stillwell).
What do you think?
Comments. Criticsm. Compliments. Holla back.
it doesnt make any sense. Say for example, i pay on the B74 with a metrocard and need to take the train. I get on the B68 and use the metrocard to connect with the train at Brighton Beach. But instead of getting a transfer,im paying another fare. I liked it better the orignal way:B68 free from Coney Island to Brighton Beach Avenue-Brighton 5th Street.
B1-#9304-NOVABUS
b64-#9339-NOVABUS
Drivers on the 68 are still charging riders at Stillwell when its supposed to be free?? These people (the MTA) don't know what they are doing :-\
Watching a spanish speaking only station and saw this commercial with a GMC fishbowl. This commercial was for McDonalds and had a model licking her lips at an ad for the Big N Tasty. There was a guy on the bus and he thought she was hitting on him. Not fluent in spanish though.
I saw that commercial on Channel 41! Damn good commercial! I mean the woman...not the bus! LOL!
LOL!!! Yea,that lady was hot. GM fishbowl was great to see. If I wasn't full from eating already, that might have made me go out and get a Big N Tasty, although compared to the Whopper, it ain't that big, but is tasty. Did I mention, hispanic women are hot.
Man, I LOVE young, good-looking Hispanic women....they are like the Grumman 870s of humans. Just lookin' FINE!!!
-F.
LOL!! I see alot of sweet senoritas at where I work, it makes working at a 12 hour day worthwhile.
Oh MAN...I want YOUR job. Let's trade...you make custom bus models, and I'll hang with the senoritas....LOL! You PIMP daddy, you! :)
-F.
WOW...somebody tape this thing so I can see it. Sounds like it's right up my alley!
-F.
I wish I did, I do watch the spanish channels alot, don't know what they are saying, but do watch for the great info (he he, yea right)
I took Spanish in college; perhaps I could know the gist of what they are talking about. Which makes me all the more anxious to see the commercial. Spanish stations are neat; unfortunately, we have none here. The furthest south you can find one is in Ohio.
-F.
Fortunately, we have 2-3 spanish channels, with two of the three supported by a local spanish station. I think I need to learn spanish, because I run a store where alot of spanish people shop and I understand some of what they say (repetative listening). I took a little bit of spanish in high school, but not enough. I tried to get two of my former employees to teach me spanish, they never did.
How neat! Tell me more about your shop.
-F.
Well I work for the Footlocker Corportation, Kids Footlocker, to be exact. My store is in Landmark Mall, a kind of dead mall, but one redeeming quality is that about five Metrobus routes, and four DASH routes, stop there. When I leave early, I park near the bus stop there just to see buses come and go. I have worked for the company for about five years, and been to probably every Kids Footlocker in the area. The best were at Wheaton and P.G. Plaza, because both are right across from Metro Stations, with P.G. Plaza still have its own bus depot.
How neat! I have a lot of respect for those who can work with children. It takes a lot of caring and tolerance to do so; I would like to think I have that, especially if I become a father one day. So which routes go to you, and how scenic are they?
-F.
I will post this in two parts since AOL has something up their *** and cut me off.
WMATA routes
7A-Goes from the Pentagon to the Landmark area. This bus is quite a nice ride and it runs seven days a week.
17A-Goes from the Pentagon to George Mason University (my old stomping grounds), via Landmark. It runs seven days a week and it is kind of long. Also, it is replaced in the midday by Fairfax Connector route 306. It is ok ride nothing special.
25B-Goes from Ballston to Van Dorn Street Metro Stations, via Bailey's Crossroads and Landmark Mall. This is the best ride of all, you get to see alot of other bus routes, starting at Ballston, thru Bailey's Crossroads, Southern Towers. This is one of the few Virginia routes that uses two different garages, and those being Four Mile Run and Arlington, using Arlington on Saturday. This bus runs Monday thru Saturday.
29K,L-Goes from Old Town Alexandria to George Mason University, the worst trip and the longest, goes to George Mason University and also to Fairfax Circle, via Landmark. Runs Monday thru Saturday using mostly buses from Royal, but on Saturday and at least Friday nights using buses from Four Mile Run. I will discuss DASH routes in the second post.
17A only runs Monday thru Friday and not seven days a week.
There's also the 7F that is a derivation of the 7A, but does a loop in the Lincolnia neighborhood. That route is nuts because you go in circles for awhile before it finally gets back on the route to follow the 7A. The 7F runs M-Sa.
The 25B is a good ride. I like the deviation when it turns onto George Mason Drive and loops through Skyline Plaza and the run through Southern Towers. It is a two way street through there and the buses passing each other come right on top of one another. During Rush hours there is a non stop flow of bus traffic.
There used to be an 18B that came through Landmark that ran from Springfield Mall to the Pentagon but that was eliminated with the opening of the Franconia-Springfield metro station. That mall is nothing to write home about anyways.
The best malls I think are Fair Oaks, served by the 1C, 1Z, 2B, 2G, Landmark, even though I'm probably the only person in the DC area to think so since a lot of stores come and go, and Potomac Mills/Arundel Mills. I'm not a huge Tysons Corner Mall fan and the Galleria at Tysons, I think the pre requisite is that you own a BMW or Mercedes before they let you in to the mall. I'm surprised the mall owners let the 23A drop off people right at the door to Neiman Marcus.
I guessing the wrokers at that mall where the 23A stops don't like useing Fancy Cars!
The route could probably do just as well by going around the mall rather than through the parking garage and still make a stop. I think the only shopping malls in this area that are really anti bus is Wheaton Plaza and White Flint Mall. Before the metro stop opened at Wheaton, the mall pushed the buses off onto Viers Mill Road before enough people complained that they were allowed on the property, but didn't stop near any of the stores, you still had to walk through a busy parking lot to get to the nearest dept. store. White Flint just flat out said no and kept all the buses on Rockville Pike. Its the furthest point away from the mall to the bus stops. They allow their own shuttle on the property, but still have them park in the back by the parking garage.
I don't know if it is Lakeforest's decision, but the bus depot is 1 and 1/2 parking lots and a small mall road away from the mall. I am not sure the county government wanted this or it was a decision by the mall management. Also when Landover Mall was open, they moved the bus stop from in front of the mall to a parking lot away. A couple of years ago they tried again to move the bus stop in front of the mall again, that lasted for a brief time. I think both reasons was shoplifting at that mall was so rampant, and the fact that they just jumped on the bus to get away, they just moved the stop from in front of the mall.
I forgot about Lakeforest. Yeah, that's a hike to get up to the transit center. Montgomery Mall used to have the buses stop right in front of the Sears, but when they remodeled the mall about 12 years ago to accommodate Nordstrom's and a huge parking garage, the buses were moved to the transit center off of Westlake. Its not a bad location, just a pain sometimes when the cars don't stop at the crosswalk to let people get over to the mall.
They don't know that if they run you over in a crosswalk they get ticketed or arrested for not yielding to people in a crosswalk. Also another note about Lakeforest, it seems they don't really want those who ride the bus to go to the mall, as I have yet to see a crosswalk there and unless you cut through commuter parking lot, there is not sidewalk ajacent to the mall roadway entrance.
I remember the 18B, took it a couple of times to Springfield Mall before the subway station opened there. I believe before Van Dorn Street Station opened, the 25B use to terminate at Landmark Mall. I also believe that during rush hour, a couple of more 18 routes stopped at Landmark. There is still an 18 route that runs by the mall, as well as the 21C and D, but all don't stop in the mall.
I was wondering where the 25B stopped before Van Dorn Street opened. I didn't know if that was a new route that was formed when Van Dorn opened or what.
A couple of the 8's run close to Landmark, but turn onto Holmes Run Pkwy.
I forgot about the 21's. They do go down Duke, then up to Stevenson Ave. and loop through the apt. complexes up there.
Ah...hoity-toities. You've gotta love em. Those are the very kind of people that try to kill off transit service in their areas because as long as they have their latte-colored SUVs, they just don't care about bus service. You know, the kind of boneheads that block up traffic with their expensive little cars? Quite familiar with them.
-F.
Very nice; how many of these are Flxible routes?
And yes, I don't miss that facet of AOL at all. No sir, not at all!
-F.
Most of the WMATA routes use mainly Orions either fives or sixes. The 25B uses the most Flxibles. Here you would see mainly Flxible Ds, with some Flxible Bs once in a while and sometimes, even a Four Mile Run Flxible E. The 7 route uses the next amount of Flxibles, using Flxible Bs (9200s), and Flxible Ds (9700s and 9800s), and Flxible Es. 17A uses Flxible Ds sometimes and the 29 uses some Flxible Bs, but mostly Orion Vs. For a Flxible watcher, the 25B is a good bet.
Speaking of Flxibles, I saw Metro D 9731 turning off of N. Randolph Street onto Wilson Blvd. in front of the Arlington garage. Not sure if that is a new addition to the fleet or a passing bus that happened to stop there. Once in a great while I'd see a stay bus wandering around there that didn't belong there, but stopped at the garage. If it is a new addition, it would be the first and only Metro D at that garage.
Oh? Is that mostly an Orion garage?
-F.
It's half and half. I think just about all of the 35' Metro B's are there, (9481-9498) plus several of the ex Bladensburg 40' Metro B's and scattered 8700-8800 40' B's, plus a few 9200's. The Orions that are there are 1992 Orion V 9606-9617, 1997 Orion V 4244-4246, 4381-4387, 2000 Orion V 214x-2162 or 63, I believe, and a few of the 30' Flx Metro B's. I'm not sure what the rest are. I think there are only about 100 vehicles total in that facility.
Oh, I see; so they do have a fair amount of Metros. Do the "B"s have 6v71s or 92s in them? I always liked them better overall than "D"s. Also, do the 30' Flxes see a fair amount of service these days? I had never seen one on a route when I visited DC.
We had both Orion V no. 3900 and 2164 down here for demos back in 2000, the year before our TA settled on Gilligs and Thomas SLFs; where are those two coaches located, and which routes do they usually run? Overall, I was impressed with those Orions. Very Flx-like.
-F.
The 8700s and 8800s have 6V92 engines, the 9300s, 9400s have Cummins L10 engines.
This one is from Southeast, you never know. They might be transferring some or all of their 9700s to Arlington. It also seems that 2163-2169 or 70 has been transferred to Arlington from Southeast. Saw 2165 on a 12 route on Route 66, Wednesday as a was going to yet another audit in Manassas. 2170 or 2171 to 2172 has been transferred from Southeast to Northern.
That makes sense as I haven't seen too many of the 2160's around in Arlington. For Flxible's question, then, 2164 is roaming around DC.
I'd love to track down 2171, that's my birth date, Feb. 1, 1971. I saw it once a couple of years ago on 295, but it was on the other side of the road.
Once in awhile a stray bus from another division shows up in Arlington. I haven't seen it around since then, but, it could still be there. I'd love some of the 9700's to run on the Arlington routes.
Also, Four Mile Run is going to get a conversion to CNG from what I've been reading. That garage will be huge when they're done to handle both the diesels and the CNG's.
I don't know what bus did this, but an unattended one at Royal division smashed into two bus bays causing 40 out of the 60 buses to be moved temporarily to Four Mile Run. Found a little blurb on this on a Arlington County website linked through the APTA website. I don't think anyone was hurt, except the bus.
That would probably mean that they'll either keep some of their diesels around after the CNGs are delivered or that they won't have to kick out the PRTC buses out of the garage.
Yeah, and by that time, some others will be ready for retirement. The announcement WMATA's website mentioned that 225 of the 250 CNG's to come in will go to Four Mile Run and the other 25 will go to Bladensburg
I was going to WMATA's later, but did they say if they who will be making these buses?
I didn't see the company,l but I have a feeling it will be New Flyer.
Sounds good; so those are the only routes to find a Flx? I recall riding either the 64 or 66 back south from MD towards the Smithsonian in 1997, and that was mostly Metro "D"s at the time. Is that still the case along that way?
-F.
Those bus routes use now mostly Orion Vs, but the Flxible Ds practically run side by side with them. Especially during the weekdays, you see Metro Bs (8900s, 9300s and 9400s) running these routes. Northern has really kept their 8900s basically in tact, only within the past couple of years having the non-wheelchair lift 8900s being mostly transferred to Southeast, Western, and Bladensburg. The wheelchair lift 8900s are still running strong from Northern and I would say now all of them have bike racks, the only ones from WMATA's first Flxible Metro order to have almost all of them to have one. Scattered 8800s and one 8700 have bike racks in the rest of WMATA's fleet.
Now the DASH routes
All of DASH's routes either go through or terminate in Old Town Alexandria.
AT2- The most plain of the routes going to and from Landmark, runs seven days a week. Does pass by the DASH bus garage (even though you would have to walk about four or five blocks to get there.
AT5-One of the better routes, basically takes you through most of Alexandria, one of the most scenic routes in the bus system, though kind of long. I have taken this route and it is good.
AT7- Starts at Landmark and goes mostly though the industrialized parts of Alexandria including passes by the Alexandria Metro Rail Yard and Cameron Run Park, sort of a mini waterpark, combined with a
regional park. Also passes by the Alexandria Federal Court House, where certain people were going to go on trial or about to go on trial
(American Taliban, forgot his name, Moussaui, and Robert Hanson, the spy)
AT8-Don't remember much about this route, never rode it (at least I don't remember riding it) so I can't really give any info here.
The AT8 runs from Royal and Pendleton in Old Town to Van Dorn St. Station via King Street metro and Landmark Mall. Duke Street is the main road it travels on. Took it a couple of times to visit my g/f when she lived off of Duke St. by the Fuddruckers. It gets pretty crowded, but mainly the people on Duke Street either catch that bus or the WMATA 29K/N. It runs M-Su.
There is also a new AT6 which is essentially ex WMATA route 28C that ran from NVCC-Alexandria to King Street via Brad-Lee Shopping Center. I believe this is a weekday only route.
The reason why this trip is unplanned, was that I had to go to an audit at another store and usually I would take my car, but my car's brakes are mush, so I had to take the bus (and rail). When I got to the store for the audit, found out noone was there, seems like the audit was cancelled and I WOKE UP AT 5:00 IN THE MORNING FOR THIS!!
Well onto the details.
The trip started out at 6:20, when Flxible D 9774 pulled up on the F14, enroute to Capitol Heights. Caught the Blue Line to Metro Center and the Red Line to Shady Grove. At Shady Grove, caught Orion V 5599 on Ride On route 55, enroute to Lakeforest Mall for the audit. Got to Lakeforest and went to the audit only to find out that there is apperently no audit. MAD AS HELL, so I went home. Made some observations at the Lakeforest Transit Center. Saw mainly Orion Vs and Is, but did see 4411 with a bike rack as well as some other Orion V 4400s running the Smartmover route 14D. I got Orion V 5622, on Ride On route 62, enroute to Shady Grove. This bus is the only Ride On bus that I have been on that has cameras. It has one in the front and one in the back. Got to Shady Grove and caught Flxible E 4041 on WMATA route Q2, enroute to Rockville. Also at Lakeforest saw an ex-Baltimore Flxible, number unknown, just getting off of the 57 and about to deadhead to the garage. Got to Rockville and caught Orion One 55xx (number unknown) on Ride On route 46 to White Flint.
At White Flint caught recently ex Bladensburg Flxible 9701 enroute to
Loehmann's Plaza. I say recent because this bus has no bike rack, this and 9704 are now at Montgomery. 9701 was on the C8 and I wanted to take this route to Glenmont and take Ride On route 10 to Twinbrook and take the C4 to Langley Park or P.G. Plaza and take The Bus 18 to Addison Road. I wanted to take the C8, because it passes the Montgomery garage and I wanted to see if there are still are New Flyers there (yes about 10-15) and also to see if any Neoplans have been delivered (which they have not). I also saw two Flxible Bs there, looking like they are ready for retirement. 8724 and 8757 were parked next to the New Flyers which means these buses might not be WMATA's property for long. Usually when buses are parked at this part of Montgomery's garage, means that either they are ready for retirement or are new buses awaiting service. This maybe the beginning of the end for the fabled Flxible Bs. Back to 9701. This bus, when I exited the bus, has a smartcard machine at the rear exit. Also this bus is sort of an oddity in that it's interior lights are more similiar to the 9800s, than the 9700s. Got off at Loehmann's Plaza (when I realized that I could get the C4 here instead of taking going to Glenmont and then back to the same spot. I caught WMATA Orion V 2130, on the C4 enroute to P.G. Plaza. I was hoping to see if The Bus route 18 was in service (I found out it actually was) but didn't see one.
As I got to the P.G. Plaza, the bus got loaded big time, with most people getting off before the bus got to the mall. I got to P.G. Plaza, and caught Orion V 4265, on the F6 enroute to the New Carrolton Station and at New Carrolton, caught Flxible E 4035 on the F14 going home. As we were leaving the station, I spotted a The Bus Champion, invovled in an accident. The bus suffered some damage, mainly between the left side, in between the wheel wells. I am not sure if anyone was hurt, but did see an ambulance there, didn't look like that serious of an accident. Got home bus trip concluded.
I was going to take a planned bus trip to Baltimore this Wednesday, but due to recent events, that trip is up in the air. Some freak is going around shooting people at random, killing six and injuring two, including a 13 year boy, who was shot today, just after getting dropped off at school. He is in critical but stable condition at Children's Hospital, at the time of this post. I hope he pulls through and hope they catch sniper shooting fool soon. This latest shooting happened in Bowie, with the other shootings happening mostly in Montgomery County, and one in D.C. and Spotsylvania County.
Wow, what a day. You went all the way up to Gaithersburg for nothing?! Nice of them not to CALL you before you left or at least yesterday afternoon, even though it was a Sunday. My g/f was telling me about the awful day at work for her. She is the store manager for a childeren's clothing store at Pentagon City and they got 65 boxes of merchandise, 27 of them were to go to other stores!! Oops. I've actually got her taking the 24M/P from Ballston to Pentagon City instead of taking the Orange Line to Rosslyn and then transferring to the Blue Line. Much more seamless travel.
I read that Arlington Metrobuses are to start running with fareboxes that allow use of the smartrip card. I wonder if 9701 is a test bus and is making its way through the system? I haven't been on any Arlington buses lately to see if they are all equipped with the new boxes or not. The one thing I read on WMATA's website was that they wont accept pennies, but you can add value to the card. So, you could put a 20 in the farebox and load up your card, but for now, you wont get the 10 percent discount you get when you ride the rail.
The C4 gets packed. I lived in Hyattsville up to 1997 and that bus was always crowded. It basically runs 24 hours a day now, which it never did when I used it. It always used to end around 8PM, but now you can actually have a life without needing a car out there. I used to see artics on the line once in awhile too. Actually, the last C4 I rode out of Hyattsville was a 52xx NABI in 1999 when my folks moved to Rockville, which is only around the corner from where one of the poor men was shot by that sniper. So sad. Their apt. complex was in lock down that day. Every time I saw one of those Isuzu box trucks last week, don't think I wasn't looking to see if it matched the descriptions.
Hope your day goes better tomorrow. I guess you made it a fun day, but how frutsrating.
Yea, would have been nice, oh well, the bus trip made things better. I have had the same problems with getting stuff that was supposed to go to other stores other than mine, most of the time better stuff, so I feel your g/f's pain. I had to go to another audit today, because my part-timer had school. I made sure this time I was not going somewhere for nothing, so I called and there was. Though I took the bus again, not as much many buses as Mondays, so I will post this one with the one I am taking to work Friday, of course due to car's brakes
needing attention.
I saw that press release too, and they would put them on 80 buses. I also heard somewhere that you could use your rail farecard with these new fareboxes. 9701 had another kind of smart card system that was only on a few metrobuses, mostly out of Bladensburg. This bus and the rest of Bladensburg's Flxible D's 9701-9723 are now at Montgomery.
I saw 9309, apparently now operating out of Royal.
The C2 I rode today was packed also, even though they increased the frequency on both routes about eight months ago. These two routes
should have mostly articuleds, if not all articuleds (WMATA should have ordered more articuleds than the measly(sp?) than are on their way any time soon.
Where on WMATA's website do they have info about the new fareboxes? I haven't seen any.
Ride-On finally updated their supplemental schedule info for Monday although only on one link. The rest are still broken.
That's strange, its not there now. They had this whole big thing at the top of the page about it and had a link to a pamphlet that described what routes would be affected by it. I guess they false started. : (
I guess because I was out of town I missed it. They do have something on washingtonpost.com on the traffic page but it makes very little sense.
It has been a month since September 8th where alot of bus routes, especially in Brooklyn, were either consolidated, extended, or change depots. Well how do rate and feel about the changes now and has it improved or just made things worse? And what would u like to see change?
In my opinion so far
B 13/ B 47: Compared to the B 43 and B 82, the B 13 and B 47 are very different. Their split route (usually every other bus) are like their original counter parts. The only difference some mine road changes or extension on a road to link the two routes. Well was it a success,this how I rate it (Brooklyn at least)
B13 C - , it still need time for the Bushwick Av portion to really develop as mention here before and yes the B 13 needs to get away from Gates St. As for schedule, well it seems more like the B 18 could have existed if it just terminated at Palmetto St and go by its current route on the B 13 north. While the B 13 says the same with its minor change at Spring Creek.I would like to see more busses serve the original portion of the B 13 now that more passengers are crowdeding the bus to go as far as Gateway. This is definately needed on the weekends which is running like every 30 minutes. Also what is up with this route on the weekdays between 11am - 1pm where the amount of buses declined from 4 buses an hour to only two.I would also like to see an additional bus stop at Seaview (Gateway Dr.) Av and if possible if the owners want to play stupid than I would to see the B 13 loop around the Brooklyn develop Center like this. plce a stop at Seaview and Eskine St on BDC side also terminate the bus there. route will be rt on Seaview, rt on Eskine, rt on Vandilla (I believe) back to normal.
B 47 B -, this route reminds me of the B 6 and B 82. Well now at Ralph Av and East NY if you want to go to Woodhull Hospital area you have two options now. I can't really complain but again the schedule shows (especially on weekends) that it still mimics the old route of the B 78 and modifications to the B 40 if it was to exist still. MTA realized that night service is needed on this route. I am not sure that is also included in the B 78 portion also. Someone needs to get to me about that. Other than that it still the same route minor improvements on the schedule can help but it is alright.
B8: C+. Maybe it is just me would it be better for the B 8 to terminate at M Gaston Blvd so it would not have that delay at Linden and Church (of course heading to Bay Ridge). In terms of JG taing over I am for it but service still like the ENY counterparts still behind schedule or doubling up at the wrong times. Or on Sundays (unlike JG) going as slow as if it had no life. My questions is now that it Fort Hamilton Base is closed to bus service, why doesn't the B 8 have more service to Bay Ridge especially at nights? Just a thought
B 68, F +: I am not going there. Iam glad it has been extended to CI but the whole thing with routing to C to provide for the subway service and the transfer thing has got me mad. And this one thing MTA has still failed....
Well this is my opinion the routes I have been on. I would like to here yours
B49 limted (sorry about any spelling mistakes)
Ok here's my opninons on the bus changes starting with the route combos.
B13,B47: I have to give the MTA credit on this round of bus combos. (B47) The 40 always had very low ridership and the service of the 78 was inconsistent at times (especially when it started late on Sundays). Now the length of Ralph Av has 24 hour service and it saves a transfer altough I don't think much people transferred to/from the old routes. (B13) Its good that they comined these 2 routes because more people rode the 13 more than the 18 and the 18 was a odd route. Brooklyn seems to always gets stuck with route combos.
The bus combos of 1995 was good for the B43 [formerly B47(the first one) and B62] but the B82[formerly the B5 and B50] combo was just a disaster, and still is to this day (should of left it split between UP & ENY). I went to Kings Hwy on Sunday and I saw 3 82's in a row towards Starrett City :-\ and only 1 B7. TheB 82 NOT the B6 should have been chosen as the Limited but they have almost the same ridership so it was 1 or the other or none.
My ratings on these routes:
B13: I have to agree with you on that. Haven't rode it yet. Routewise its good and its about time part of Bushwick Av has a bus running on it but the headways are just atrocious 15 minutes weekdays [and what you said are the headways bet.11am & 1pm] , 20-30 minutes on weekends for a route that's longer & has to take the B18 passengers plus Gateway is opening soon, although its not scheduled to go inside the mall >:-o.
Grade: C-
B47: This should have been done sooner. Out of the 4 combos since 1995, this is the best one (& smartest).I rode the entire line and its cool, the driver helped people out to ease confusion. Passengers now have the option of taking this bus to Woodhull as a alternate to the B46 plus Ralph has less traffic (except at the Linden, Remsen Av, Ralph Av junction). Still shows that a hint of the 78 portion still exists, it shouldn't turn on E 98 St(SB). BTW, its 24 hours on the whole route.
Grade: A-
B8: Its about time there was a direct transfer to the B60. I am a daily rider of the 8 and there is better service but you are right, it backs up at times like ENY and now buses short turn at Coney Island Av inaddition to Knigs Hwy and Nostrand Av & on weekends buses tend to be "missing" but now my route has a variety of buses :-). They really have to do something with Bay Ridge because people be waiting up to 1/2 hour ON WEEKDAYS!
Grade B-
B68: Its good that they extended it to Stillwell, should of did this sooner to avoid the confusion it has now. Routing it via Neptune?!? Now that was just stupid.It would of made more sense to simply continue the route via Surf Av. I'm not even going to get into transfers but all I'm gonna say is that they made a huge mistake before but they're solution is providing 2 free transfers. I should give a F but I'll take it easy.
Grade:D+
BTW, the B14 got a extension to the vicinity of Gateway in anticipation of its opening.
Grade:A for making the change to give passengers another option.
You are right the Bay Ridge portion is horrible on the weekdays and Saturday. With the busses rerouted at 94 St, there is no excuse why B8 should not have all busses go to 95 St. According to the schedule, the B 8 goes to and from Bay ridge every 20 minutes that is not cutting it. If anything, if night service is not needed have all B8's terminate at Va Hosp. Other times straight to Bay Ridge.
As for the B13 it has about a 30 min headaway between 11am - 1pm, why? someone tell me?
I did forget about the B 14 extended along Loring and you are right it was a great idea and I think it is time to extend it to Gateway, if the B 13 stays at this status.
No, the B13 is an excellent route, but because of Gateway it needs more service. (Ranking A-)
If any route should get a bad ranking, then it should definitly be the Q55. That route is absolute garbage. an walk faster across Myrtle Av. than waiting 30 minutes for 2 buses coming at the same time. Definitly the worst FP route.(Ranking F-)
I agree... But combining it with the B 54, I don' t think will help the problem. Any suggestions?
The headways made me give it a lower grade. I DID say that the bus routewise is good but the intervals are just poor, espcially since you now that you have Gateway mall.
Never rode the Q55. I planned on riding it soon but something turned me away from it. I don't really have problems with FP routes. If you want to go broader with worst routes here's my opinions with the rest of Brooklyn's depots.
Worst routes:
FP: Kind of a tough one but the B13 [don't take it personally ;-)] is the worst ONLY because of its anemic headways and is underserved for a long route.
FB: The B41(don't mean to diss a main bus of travel for me) because at times it could really bunch up and traffic between Church Av and Glenwood Rd and sometimes north of Grand Army Plaza kills a decent run to gain speed. My grade for it though is a B- :-).[No wonder it got a Pokey award :-(]. Would have picked the B2 but the headways justify the demand(especially weekends).
UP: The B3 because of major bunching, especially going towards Harway Av. Sometimes you could end up waiting up to 20 minutes for a 3 thats supposed to be every 7-8 mins (rush hours its more frequent) DAILY. Grade:D+
JG: The B23 is just bad. The MTA could do more to improve this line by giving route extnsions if needed. I could write a summary on this line but I'll keep it short. Grade: F
ENY: Its a toss up between the Q24 and Q56 but I'm going to go with the Q56. Its similar to the Q55 its garbage. I remember I took a joyride, I foolishly got off the J train only to wait 20 or 25 minutes for a bus thats supposed to be every 12-15 since I didn't ride it in a while(I rode it on a weekend BTW). How do you have 2 buses bunching up when both buses had seats >:-O?????? Oh well, thats how it is sometimes. Grade: F
This is a "continuation" of my previous post. This is my opinion so you may have different ones so all opinions are welcome on the subject of the worst routes in the brooklyn depots. Its better to choose 1 for each depot but 2 or > is welcome.
Before 9/8/02 the B13 was the most accurate FP routes. Trust me, I've been on the B13 many, many, many times, it was very dependable, even during rush hours such as 5:00P.M. on Fridays, traffic was not a problem for it. Buses on the B13 almost never get pack, that is until Gateway opened.
Because of Gateway, people are pushing the B13 way beyond what it can handle. Listen, the B13 never had such a tremendus boost in the # of riders. This route has had the 20 minute/30 minute-per-bus schudule for over 10 years, and trust me, it was perfect for this route(ahh my old B13 memories..).
This change is just too sudden. That is why the B13 is like this, people are trying to push this minor FP route into doing so much it wasn't meant to do. Its not a major route like the Q58 that is meant to do so much.
Before 9/8/02 the B13 was the most accurate FP routes. Trust me, I've been on the B13 many, many, many times, it was very dependable, even during rush hours such as 5:00P.M. on Fridays, traffic was not a problem for it. Buses on the B13 almost never get pack, that is until Gateway opened.
Because of Gateway, people are pushing the B13 way beyond what it can handle. Listen, the B13 never had such a tremendus boost in the # of riders. This route has had the 20 minute/30 minute-per-bus schudule for over 10 years, and trust me, it was perfect for this route(ahh my old B13 memories..).
This change is just too sudden. That is why the B13 is like this, people are trying to push this minor FP route into doing so much it wasn't meant to do. Its not a major route like the Q58 that is meant to do so much.
B13- RTS# 9172 (rejected both 4679 & 4741 to get it :).
The Q56 is not good because it follow the J-Line too much. From Jamaica Center/Parsons to Cypress Hills/Cresent St., also Alabama Av. and Bway Jct.. The only portion of the Q56 that's indenpendent is between Cresent St. and Pennsylvania Av. The Q56 is screwed up because of this.
Worst JG route, B35(don't get mad at me if you like this route)
Definitely a lot of slow down on Church Av., plus buses get bunched together. But it's still not as bad as the Q58
LOL the B35 has been getting bunched up since the 70s. I recall seeing 3 or 4 buses together just about all the time back then.
Isn't supposed to be like that during some hours.... (frequent service)
B 49 LTD
I have seen pictures from the 1950's when PCC streetcars were bunched on Church Avenue!
I have seen pictures from the 1950's when PCC streetcars were bunched on Church Avenue!
If you look at the guide a ride on the B35 it does say 'FREQUENT SERVICE', sometimes they have a asterisk that says "* Additional Service Provided" in certain hours. Buses are "almost continuous" during those times and I do ride it regularly so I know that is a fact. Its designed that way, no service under 7-8 minutes (if on time) DAILY until late evenings & late nights. I thnk late night headways should be every 1/2 hour instead of every 45 minutes Agree/disagree
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Somebody does agree w/ me......
laughs
I am not certain but I have to look at the schedule, but does it go as early as 3am?
B49 Limited
The B35 doesnt get bunched together because its ever late that's for sure.during rush hours you got 3 different services on that route.One runs the full route from Mother Gaston Blvd.-39St/1Av.Another starts from MG Blvd. and short turns at Kings Highway.And another only runs between Church/Mcdonald Avs. and Church Av/16th St.So that's why there's always so many buses right behind the other on the B35 and that's also the reason why some other JG routes are so infrequent:B23 and B70 are examples.
I disagree with the reason why busses like B 23. 70, 61 are in the way they are. That is caused by low ridership and the areas the bus serves in today's times are the causes for infrequent service..
Just to set the record straight:
The B35 runs at all times between 39th Street & First Avenue and Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues. For most of the day, some buses run between Church & McDonald Avenues and Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues. On weekdays, some westbound AM rush buses start at Church Avenue & Kings Highway, and some eastbound PM rush buses run from Church & Nostrand Avenues to Church Avenue & Kings Highway.
If I missed anything, please let me know.
David
Buses usually run to Mother Gaston Blvd, I didn't know that some buses still short turn at Rockaway Av.
BTW, some buses run between Church Av/McDonald Av to Church Av/Kings Hwy
As somebody who books the B35 everyday of the week from 2-8 pm I can answer all the questions about it. First of all, the B35 does not terminate at Rockaway and Hegeman aves. Rockaway and Hegeman is merely the last timepoint you see on your scheduling sheets. The final stop for most B35's is Mother Gaston Blvd as stated on the destination signs. There are no B35's whatsoever that turn short at Rockaway and Hegeman aves. Even if we wanted to turn them short at that location, we wouldn't because of the major congestion on Rockaway ave leading up to Linden Blvd. In fact, I currently tell some B8's that are deadheading from Rockway and Hegeman to go up to Mother Gaston and come around via Linden Blvd to save time and avoid the congestion. There are currently only 2 runs in the p.m. that operate from Church and Nostrand to Kings Hwy. Runs 66 and 69, however sometimes the dispatchers tell them to make the trip all the way to Mother Gaston when they have a large load. The main dispatchers on every line are the one's that work the end timepoints and I happen to be one of them working at Rockaway and Hegeman. I have been working very hard to alleviate the bus bunching problem plaqued on the B35. I have many buses that arrive late bunched up deadhead out by making a right turn on Mother Gaston, then right onto Linden Blvd and going all the way to Church and making a left and starting at that point to save about 10 minutes of time. This usually puts them back on or very near their proper running time, alleviating the bunching problem.
BIG AL
"Big Al" is correct in that I used Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues as the terminus since that's what's listed on the official schedules. The signs (at least some of them) do read "M Gaston Blvd."
David
No, the B13 is an excellent route, but because of Gateway it needs more service. (Ranking A-)
If any route should get a bad ranking, then it should definitly be the Q55. That route is absolute garbage. I can walk faster across Myrtle Av. than waiting 30 minutes for 2 buses coming at the same time. Definitly the worst FP route.(Ranking F-)
For the B13, you've seen the condition of Gates Av. right? It looks like a piece of shit. It's been that way for 3 months now. And what is city construction doing about it? Nothing!
Now about the B13 schudule.Weekdays Between 11:00AM and 2:00P.M its 30 min. per bus. Plus with more people knowing the existance of Gateway, it tends to slow down in the Spring Creek direction.
If the B13 should get more service, that would be asking Fresh Pond to use everything they have. Until FP gets more buses, the B13 schudule isn't going to change.
And yes, the old B!3 was better than the one now.
-Jay
The only route I can evaluate is the B47 and I give it an A+ all the way! I loved the trip on that bus when I first took it only a few days after the changes.That bus route is the best ever.And in saying that,I wanna change the M20 part of my handle to B47 but I don't know how.Does anyone here know how I can make the change? I might wind up asking the great webmaster of this site but I wanna hear from anyone about this first before I do so.
And the B78 never ran 24/7 so the 47 does that running it's entire route from Woodhull Hosp.-Kings Plz.
You forgot about the B14 extension to the movie theatre. Hopefully TA can extend it to Gateway as well...........
BTW, the B8 should have been extended to MG Blvd with the B35.
Just to let you guys know that MTA NYC bus website now officially opens a new online gift shop.
First, I had to go to the Grand Central Terminal website to check out there museum store then I link onto MTA museum store and wa-lah, MTAs' gift shop. It is fairly new and alot of products are still coming in. I have to send them a comment addressing to add more bus items, such as, bus banks, T-shirts of different buses, different label pins and stuff because alot of the items are Subway stuff. Don't get me wrong. I love trains too, but buses are number one to me then trains come second. Ofcourse, New York is known for its subways. So I understand than add a huge amount of subway gear.
From that store, I like this label pin that has all the Subway routes going around and inside was NYC initials.
It's about time they have a gift shop! I'm looking forward to purchase some collectables, items and apparell. Check it guys!
Have a great day!
Ronnie
Grand central gift shop is good for us collectors but they don't have to many different type of bus banks. All I see is those I'm tired of rts bus banks and mci banks. The gift shop should have some different models or even some new route. I like to see some artic bus bank.
How about a Fishbowl bus bank?
I don't think one is available, but I could do one up from a Corgi perhaps...I am very creative with model buses. :)
-F.
The reason you keep seeing the same RTS & MCI buses is because that's all that is out there in the bus model world right now in plastic. Seemingly only a company called "Jimson" based in Hong Kong makes the buses and then Royal Coach in Pa or someone else puts the decals on them.
Corgi makes two NYC Fishbowls (one green, the other two shades of blue) as well as a NYC Board of Transport old look. That's about it for buses unless you count the paper cut-out of the NYC Transit Museum's Mack Bus #6259.
Several months ago there was a thread lamenting the lack of choice in buses. Joe Saitta graciously put up a post detailing the economics of designing, importing and selling a model bus. Unless you are willing to put up about $50,000 to design and produce a new model you are left with what's out there.
While you may like to collect buses like I do, the hobby is not very big unlike model railroading.
Try doing a search on this board for Joe's post of several months ago to get an idea of what is involved.
Ah...but we can always scratch-build what is not out there. I have just finished a design for an HO-scale Gillig Phantom model (the first one now belongs to caine824), and am currently designing New Flyer LF models in both HO and bank size. Also, as I mentioned many times before, my first Corgi Flxible New Look is nearly finished. :)
-Fred
Any Road Champs Flxible Metro models there, by any chance?
-F.
MaBSTOA is currently accepting applications for Bus Operator, from October 2nd to November 15th. The application is in Sunday's Daily News in the Classified section. You can also check out the MTA web site at: www.mta.info or call 212-712-JOBS (5627)
Good Luck.........
I just scanned and printed the application form, so if anyone is intrested, e-mail me, and I'll e-mail you the form.
I used a $1 coin on the Q60 and on the QM1A and now it counts it,Even the Golden Dollars too. When I put them it the Farebox Display show"$1.00" after I placed it it.
A bit behind....I tried that months ago and it worked.
I've been telling customers at the token booth that the golden dollars can be used on the buses. Especially good for the private lines in Queens.
Actually, the bus fareboxes have been taking $1 coins for years. Note: it was taking silver dollars before gold dollars came out and replaced silver dollars in 2000
NJT's electronic fareboxes have been accepting Susan Bs and the gold Sags from the get-go a decade ago. They take Kennedy halves too.
[NJT ... They take Kennedy halves too.]
Not for long, they're getting new fareboxes.
There is no electromagnetic differences between a Susen B and a Gold. Other than checking it optically there is no way the machine can tell them apart other than looking at the edge, but I don't know of a any fare colection device that can do that.
dollar coins have been counted for years on fareboxes.
What about lincon cents?? Will the machine read them on NYCT buses, CTransit Stamford, Queens Surface?
I have put pennies in before on expresses and it counted it - my total one time was $2.54 before I put the .46 cents in to make $3.00
At this depot we get about $25 worth every day, so much for "they are not allowed".
Only on NYCTA's busses. I don't think the Private Lines have any such restriction for their busses.
Neither do NYCT buses. The turnstiles count pennies. Their use is discouraged for the obvious reason.
I've used dollar coins plenty of times on the bus although some people I know don't even know they exist. The LRVs on the Boston Green Line have stickers on their fareboxes saying that they accept the "new" dollar coins (stickers being in place for several years).
To all the Rip Van Winkels out there, yes all the fareboes in the City take Susan B & the newer gold $1 coins.
At this depot there are over one thousand folks every day who know about this !
But far and away it's the Unlimited MC that is King of the City.
Has anyone heard from THURSTON. I haven't seen any of his postings recently and wonder if he's Okay. Anyone out there know about him or his status?
Thurston has been posting regularly at subtalk.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hello, I'm alive & well, thanks for the kind thoughts.
Been a little busy at work ... getting ready for some consultants, etc.
Anyone with a specific question, please feel free to e-mail me directly. I'll reply as soon as I can and will address most but not all issues.
Last night I was at 130 Livingston Plaza with my grandson. He did most of his homework on the LIRR platform before our train arrived, then did his reading before we arrived at Jamaica. The engineer into and out of Atlantic Ave. were both very friendly, so he realy enjoyed the trips.
At Jamaica going East was NY & Atl #271, the one with the stylized American flag painted on the side. When we got home I showed Justin my t-shirt of that engine on it, he was un-impressed.
Glad to hear you talking again. Nice to hear from you again.
Thurston?? Thurston??
Gee kinda like me around 9/11 everyone thought I was at the WTC.
This evening's X68 service included one RTS - 9252 on run 12. Doesn't Queens Village have enough MCIs, with spares, to provide full service?
It was a surprise to many of us who rode on 9252 also! Apparently the MCI's were being serviced as well as the spares being inaccessible for evening service. It also appears that 2878 and 2879 are now at QV as spares also.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Was it the regular driver? It could have been a new operator who has yet to be trained on the MCI.
It definitely was the regular driver. He relayed to me that 9252 was what was available.
On the dash of the MC-9/12, on the engine console next to the starter switch, there is a covered switch labeled "Engine Emergency". What does that switch do? Shut off the engine? But why do you need it if the engine master switch is only a few inches away?
It is more or less of a big red "Panic Button" that the driver can find right away, should impending doom arise. Take into consideration that many bus lines run more than one coach. This is especially helpful, as driver control layouts are TOTALLY different from one type to the other. If you were in an RTS catching fire after driving nothing but Flxible Metros for weeks on end, chances are you would fumble on the controls like Ted Kennedy in a glovebox!
-F.
No, it is not "more or less a big red panic button".
It is a covered toggle switch which "drops the damper" -- i.e., cuts off the air flow to the engine on blower-equipped engines. Diesel engines have a propensity to want to stay running at times when you turn the engine off via the customary method (i.e. the ignition key or toggle).
Once you "drop the damper" you must go back to the engine and reset it, or the engine will not restart. It will crank like mad, and if cranked enough, then the damper is reset, then it will restart. But it will look like Hiroshima back there if enough cranking was done. And all that unburned fuel will stink like hell when the engine DOES start.
Oh, I see....gotcha. Thanks for the info, Steve! Also, as far as I know, every bus out there is blower equipped (save for the old gas-powered jobs), isn't it?
-F.
I would imagine all diesel engines have "blowers"?
Hmmm, I wonder if any NYCTA or LI Bus diesels have this feature as well.
ALL diesel engines have blowers. In fact, have you ever heard hot rodders talk about bolting a 6-71 blower onto a V8 engine? Guess where those came from? Yup, that's right...a Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine...most likely, they initially were picked off of a junk truck or bus sitting in a boneyard! But now all the high-po engine part suppliers make their own castings or have them outsourced. Thses are set up for gas as opposed to diesel, and do not endanger our precious buses that await restoration somewhere out there....
-F.
Ive heard to it reffered to as the "little man". I was on a gmc fishbowl at an auction yard where the little man was hit. The bus shuttered, groaned, and smoked for a good five minutes before it finally died.
Yesterday I rode with a friend down to Raleigh yesterday evening to check out the Paul McCartney concert, wondering all the way if I would run into any buses down there.
Sure enough, as we crossed the North Carolina border on US 220, to what do my wondering eyes appear? A Flxible Metro! This was an ex-WSTA (Winston-Salem) 1988 model 35-footer with a pretty green stripe, and was a looker all around. It was fleet no. 1820; I remembered that this coach has been for sale at eBay for the past week, and there she was...in the flesh! BOY, did I want to take her home with me. Last time I checked, high bis was around $1800!
Later on, 40 miles outside of Durham, an Orion VII demo speeds past in the other lane on 40 West; the bus was all bright blue with large Day-Glo red OBI logos on the sides. Shortly before that, a hodge podge of Freightliner cutaways and Blue Bird "transits" rode by us.
Does anyone have any info on NC transit systems, and whether WSTA is still running Flxibles? I would love to find out. Also, judging by the fleet # on the Flx, I assume they go by the same numbering system as Blacksburg Transit in VA; 1=first bus order that year, 8=1988, and 20=number sequence of coach.
By the way, this is off-topic, but Paul was AWESOME in concert. He even did a tribute to NYC with "Freedom", and I thought of all of you here at BusTalk when he did that song. May God bless you all.
-Fred
From what I recall from second hand info, I know that WSTA operates a lot of Nova RTS buses; Charlotte has some TMC RTS with a lot of Nova low floors; within the past few years, Greensboro purchased Thomas TL960 coaches for their line service. As for the rest of the state, I really couldn't tell you. Those were just a few of the systems down there that I knew off the top of my head.
Yeah, I know about the RTS majority at WSTA; that's why I was so surprised about the Flx Metro. I do know a fair amount of Grumman 870s and Flxible Metros have run in Charlotte, including some 1992 Metros. I was also aware of the big TL960 order at Greensboro; I wonder what they had before?
More news: when I visited Chapel Hill/Durham in 1996, they were running 40-foot Gilligs with vividly colored stripes. Also, the Hertz rental service RDU Airport was running 30-foot Gillig shuttle buses. Anyone else got transit info for the Carolinas?
-F.
I was in Charleston , South Carolina in May and I caught a glimspe of their transit system. They have either 30 or 35ft. Gilligs and Trolley style buses for the downtown loop. The system is called CARTA and there is a website for it.
Troy
CARTA actually operates 35-ft New Flyer D35HF high floor buses.
Really? So do they have both Gilligs and New Flyers? I have to say the New Flyer LF looks better than the HF any day.
-F.
This is an interesting topic. Here's my contribution:
First, you can expect to find lots and lots of Thomas buses in North Carolina. Their headquarters is in High Point. Thomas is capable of turning out a decent medium-duty bus, but I never cease to wonder what these NC fleets would look like if they bought from heavy-duty transit bus manufacturers.
For being a not-so-huge system, Charlotte Transit has (or at least had) a pretty interesting fleet. They kept a batch of early 1980s Grumman-Flxible 870s running for a long time and might even still have a few; these in addition to about 40 - 1991 Flxible Metros. They purchased two batches of RTSs, one in 1979 and another in 1990. The RTS fleets ran side-by-side for a good long while. MAN set up shop in NC in the 1980s, so Charlotte Transit ended up as probably the smallest system with MAN buses, about 38 - 40x96 Americanas and at least 10 - SG 220 55x102 artics (Spokane Transit and Nashville MTA are other smaller system which had MAN artics). Amog more recent appearances in the Charlotte fleet are Gillig Phantoms and NovaBUS LFSs. I think LFSs now make up a good portion of their fleet.
Durham has had early 1990s 35-foot Orion Is. One would think that they're still in service, but I have a suspicion that they have been replaced.
Pre-Thomas, Greensboro had an all-Gillig fleet - 35-foot Phantoms and some 28-foot Spirit midibuses.
Call me a snob, but I just can't give my full respect to a transit system which features Thomas TL-960s as its front line buses. This is why I never much got into Triangle Transit Authority or any of those systems.
As for Chapel Hill, Raleigh, and Winston-Salem, those are all 35-foot RTS strongholds. These systems bought RTSs early on and they all now have newer NovaBUS RTSs.
Moving south, transit in The Palmetto State has never been anything to brag about. That being said, there are halfway decent systems in Charleston and Columbia. I always get these two systems confused. One (I think Charleston) was taken over by public control in 1996 and at the same time rolled out a new fleet of New Flyer D35 s (yes, you read right - late-model 35-foot standard-floor New Flyers!) I believe these buses are numbered 3400 to 3435, if that's of any importance to any of us. As for the other (Columbia, by process of elimination) I believe that buses there are still operated privately by the local gas and electic company, SCEG. Last I checked, they had a very intriguing fleet of mixed used RTSs, 35-foot Phantoms, and quite a few mid-late 1960s 40-foot GMC New Looks.
These certainly seem like systems worth looking into. If anyone else has any info, please make it known!
So, what Carolina's bus roster?
Off the top of my head...CATS has a host of Flxible Metro's, RTS buses, and MAN buses but most of the fleet is made up of Nova LFS'. Gillig's take care of the "express" routes (more like limited stop)but on the weekends they do a good bit of the local runs. The new MCI D4000 crusiers do the out of county express trips 82x Rock Hill, 83x Mooresville, 85x Gastonia and I a new batch of 30 footers do the shuttle runs around Charlotte although I can't remember who makes them. That's all off the top of my head and probably my last report until I move back to Dallas, TX. Hope this was helpful
Thanks; I wondered where you've been and was hoping you'd respond. So why the move to Dallas..job stuff? Ride a DART for me when you get there, and let's hope they still have Flxibles!
-F.
I'm actually going back to school to get my degree. Sadly, DART has no more Flxible's and haven't for a few years. I the think The T in Ft. Worth still has a few Mtero's.
Poop. So they retired all of the 1990 models and the CNGs? What a shame! Good to hear that Ft. Worth has some...what vintage are they?
-F.
Actually, SCEG I knew about; they certainly have an interesting mix in their fleet, I just wish I could say the same for their paint jobs. Do they still run the Fishbowls down there?
Also, I don't care for the TL960 at all; couldn't they at least opt for Gilligs? The only thing decent coming from Thomas right now is the SLF...that is a good-looking bus. And yes, I saw way too many TL960s on the way down. Ugh.
It would be really neat to find out that Charlotte still has some Grumman 870s in service; I should go there some day before they retire those and the 1991 Metros.
-F.
Today, I went on a Brooklyn joyride. I left at 5:45pm and came back around 9:15. This is what I did:
I start out by takng 968 on the B8 to Newkirk Av station. I noticed at the station that the scaffolding from this past weekend's GO is still there on the B.B. bound platform, they ripped out that metal thing that was on the ceiling, there's a whole lot of holes. Anyway, I board R68 2808 on the Q, as we leave Beverley Rd, the passes us but I catch it at Church Av & it leaves the Q and it cruises to 14 St, where I get off to transfer for the L. At Unoin Sq, these 2 guys were playing African drums on the platform, in which they were good. So I board R42 4686 & luckily, I got a seat because the train tarted to get crowded and I wasn't standing. As we leave 1 Av, this guy starts slumping toward the floor (he didn't touch the ground) like he was high or something. So I get off at Graham Av en route to the next part.
So I decide to ride the B13 (for the 1st time) from Williamsburg. I have to wait 20 minutes before 4735 comes & we're off. Has decent acceleration. This driver is going kind of slow, especially on open roads on Flushing & Bushwick Aves. So we reach Fresh Pond Rd, next to the depot, and there's a driver change. So were on FP Rd and this MTA worker with a orange vest comes through the back door with his bike, thats a first. He says "Only in America" & other stuff, in my head I was LMAO. So we reach Crescent & Fulton and a wheelchair gets on so the worker does the lift so the driver doesn't have to get up & this saved some time. We're cruisin until Euclid Av & Pitkin, where there is a crowd of people looking like they waited a long time due to atrocious headways. So we're on Euclid, stopping & going until I reach my stop, Linden Blvd to catch the B15.
So a B20 comes & goes but when it stopped, I noticed something very strange, maybe someone can answer this. 4738 was running on the B20. Now, I peek inside & I see that its a old GM bus (I saw the GM plate on the bottom inside right corner where the fire extinguisher is) converted to 4738 with its 1988 dest. signs and although the original number was buffed, I saw imprints of 2 #'s it was x07x or x0x7. What happened to the original 4738???
The B15 comes like a minute after the B20 left. I board 5221 toward Woodhull Hosp/Bed Stuy and at first we are going good but when we turn on Dumont, all of a sudden, the driver drives no more than 15-20 mph on a empty road, missing lights, & stays at the New Lots station (L) for 5 minutes, why I don't know & people & myself were getting frustrated with this guy. The bright side is that I saw a R143 overhead at New Lots Av, it sure made the line look bright. Then we SLOWLY reach Rockaway Av, where I wait for the B8 to go home. There was nothing in sight and I was expecting the worst because the B8 sometimes [for those of you familiar with it] will be nowhere to be found. So 8682 comes and leaves it either was late or it was going back to the depot. It most likely was the 1st scenario because it was run 45 & I dont think he finished around 8. But 942 shows up, myself & another person board at Rockaway Av we wait until its time for the B/O to leave. Good driver, nice speed got all the way back near my house a couple of blocks from the train station in 40 min. At Foster & Flatbush Av, this lady got on & tried to act like she didn't know that the fae was 1.50, she thought it was $1. Then my ride continued until I reached home.
NF 968 B8
R68 2808(Q)
R40 4184
R42 4686 (L)
RTS 4735 B13
RTS 5221 B15
NF 942 B8
4735? Well For me 9100's rule the B13! And I love it(I always try to wait for one).
"I saw imprints of 2 #'s, it was x07x or x0x7. What happened to the original 4738?"
Well since I am a "Fresh Pond" buff, I noticed this on the 4738 too. I've seen it 2 years ago. Me and my friend know about those imprint. We claim it to 4087, although we aren't really sure. RTS #4087 was in FP, but I don't know if it was changed to the present 4738.
The 4738 is still a mystery to me, but I know there's got to be a logical explaination for it.
Your name says it all [thats a good thing ;-)]. Well, I can't wait for a 9100's or 9500/9600's bus for 45 MINUTES to an hour because come on now its the 13. Still got shoddy service but a slight improvement but with Gateway it needs service.
I saw another of these "duplicated TMC's" with GM bodies. This is 4195 & its been renumbered to 4613(of KB). I dont mean to bug you guys but where is the original 4613?? I saw it until it left JG in '99/early 2000 because of the New Flyers.
Any info is appreciated. Thanx
FB41
I remember an old one here. 3258 with 1664 boards. But that was a GMC with a GMC.
Also 4211 out of Pier I believe has 3496 boards. Not sure of that 1 though.
#4211 M6
I think there was something with 4855 also. At the time, CAS had 4854-4872 and all the time, there were either 1600s etc and 3200s and 3700s at CAS, but for some reason, there was 4155. I never remember riding on 4155 nor 4855, but i saw them from across the street. Does anyone know about this??
And yes I have seen 4211 ex-3496 out of Hudson, but not for a while though now.
I am clueless about 4738. Could the original plate been stolen, vandalized or otherwise destroyed so another one from an older bus was substituted?.....As for the driver of 5221, perhaps he slowed down so as not to reach the next timepoint ahead of schedule....Perhaps run 45 on the B8 has his swing around 8 PM at the depot. His paddle report will specify if he reports for his second half by deadheading on other buses to the relief point or pulls a bus out of the depot after lunch.
The fire extinguisher doors are replaced on many buses with doors from older buses because the locking mechanisms on them keep breaking. The doors will not stay closed tight and either rattle or bang open and closed while the bus is in motion. Currently, a majority of the RTS's that have been scrapped so far have been GMC's. Where do you guys think those parts are going when the buses are scrapped? On other buses of course, be it a TMC, GMC or Nova. The same can be said for the sign doors. Quite a few of them have been replaced because of the same reason. They don't stay closed. Natually, when it is replaced, you may still see the old number on the door. Another thing that is replaced frequently are the horn buttons. You will see many TMC's on the road with GMC horn buttons on the steering wheel.
I remember once Jamaica depot replaced a pork chop panel on one of the 4000's. But the old sticker from the depot where the bus was from that produced the spare pork chop panel was still affixed to it. So the front of the bus had Jamaica depot while the rear said Yukon of 126th st or something like that....
BIG AL
Obviously, the fire extinguisher door on 4738 was damaged somehow and replaced by a door from an older GMC RTS. As for the interior number, again, the destination sign access panel was removed and replaced with that of 4087.
There is absolutely no reason for DOB to renumber RTS's at random. Bus 4738 is bus the same 4738 that entered service back in 1988. And for that matter, so is bus 4211.
-Mark
Euclid and Pitkin? Sounds like those are people getting off the A/C lines. The B15 driver was probably ahead of schedule. As for the B8 driver, maybe he was late and the "nice" dispatcher gave him a lite run.
According to the signs at the routes which stop under there (Q4/5/83/85) the signs say that all buses stop at Bay B after 9 PM. Around 10 PM I was watching the goings on and these routes in question stopped at their regular bays. Confused passengers were running. I suppose it is a no win situation here. Some read the signs and some don't, so wherever the buses actually stop passengers will have to run no matter what.
The similar thing happens at Flatbush and Nostrand Avenues in Brooklyn. There are supposed to be separate stops for the southbound B-41. One stop for the Kings Plaza buses (closer to Nostrand) and another stop further up for the Bergen Beach buses (closer to Avenue H). Late at night, it seems that ALL buses stop at the Kings Plaza stop, even though I NEVER saw any signs stating any off-hours differentials. Oh, I know... all of the b/o's were new and didn't realize! Yeah, that's the ticket.
It makes sense to me if that's done in the nighttime when the B41 runs every 1/2 hour and alternates between Kings Plaza & Bergen Beach. Drivers probably just don't want to pull up that far.
I agree with you, but some nights they pulled up, and on other nights they did not. Which means: where are you supposed to stand?? If there was a sign stating that after midnight, all B-41's stop at the same stop, and if the drivers abide by it, there wouldn't be a problem!
Knowing the MTA.............They won't think about that, although it would make a lot of sense. Well I don't know what to say about that it depends on the driver.
The buses are supposed to stop at their regular bays regardless of the time AND stop at Bay B starting at 9pm. However most people don't pay attention to the sign and many operators don't stop at Bay B anyway. When somebody complains, then there will be a little heat on the operators for about a month making sure all buses stop at "B" bay starting 9pm. Then the heat dies down and it's back to the same routine. The same exact game goes on at 179th street and Hillside ave, otherwise called the "universal" bus stop.
BIG AL
Newspaper hyperlinks disappear quickly. Today, I chanced upon a lengthy article in http://www.blick.ch a Swiss daily that claims that London's double-deckers are on their way out, to be replaced by articulateds. Supposed reasons are that the artics are faster, can take wheelchairs, and make it easier with children. I wonder whether the scrap dealers will send them all to the U.S. for sightseeing duties.
This is a question for those who work in the Jamaica Bus Lines, Green Bus Lines, Triboro Coach Corporation, Queens Surface Corporation, Command Bus Lines, New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines Express.
My question is this......what new bus are you guys getting?
At Jamaica Bus Lines, GMC and TMC companies are out of business. So what buses will they get when those buses are done? Especially those GMC RTS-04 and 06 buses (1985-1987)
Green BUs Lines, I was told that it would be the Orion 05.501 CNG buses but GBL is not a CNG depot.
Triboro Coach Corporation, what do they need? I heard a new depot first then they can talk new buses.
Queens Surface Corporation, the Orion are good but what about those TMC buses? Will they go soon?
The other three companies, NYBS is suppose to get MCI D4500s, LLE and CBC are staying put?
What's the scoop?
Decisions on new buses are not up to the individual companies. The decisions are made by NYCDOT. Of course, there may be some consultation with the receiving companies.
The RTS's at Queens Surface are not very old (mid 1990's), so they will be around for awhile.
As posted numerous times in the past, Green's depot was supposed to be made CNG usable, but I don't know the present status of that plan.
I have heard that NYBS is getting MCI D4000's, not 4500's.
The RTS at Queens Surfice are from 1994
The Green Line Depot adding CNG facilities is on hold until its determined that the MTA will be taking over the NYCDOT routes that Mayor Bloomberg wants done.
I also heard that NYBS and Liberty Lines are to get new MCI buses
By the way on the earlier post about Triboro getting a new depot forget it. Its current garage was opened in the early 1960's and was just recently added CNG facilities in 1994
Thank You
[By the way on the earlier post about Triboro getting a new depot forget it. Its current garage was opened in the early 1960's and was just recently added CNG facilities in 1994]
Triboro also had some Methanol buses, but like the CNG facility it was just a TEST. Their depot isn't explosion proof so no CNGs can go inside, plus their CNG station was never intended to support a large fleet. QSC on the other hand has a high speed filling station that can service three buses at once.
I don't see the City investing any capital money in the "privates" until the ownership issue is resolved. Mayor Mike has a big budget problem so he's going to delay any major expenditure he can.
Meanwhile you RTS lovers should enjoy the rides for a while longer.
I would like your opinions on these 3 sevices. The Rockaways gets bad service from the MTA(subways) AND the DOT. They always get screwed. I left out the Q53 and the Q113 purposely because they are pretty consistent & I'm evaluating the Green Bus routes. Here's mine:
Q21: The BIGGEST loser of all 3. It runs every 72 minutes except summers & the AM/PM rush, which is unheard of for a local bus. I say it should be combined with the Q41 calling it the Q41 and every other bus goes to the Rockaways while others terminate at 164 Av, its present terminal. It would give customers a one seat ride to the Rockaways, gives a 2nd option rather than taking the Q112 to the Q113 & going around Nassau and won't have to wait for an A at Rockaway Blvd then the S to B 116 St & it eliminates a transfer to the lost in space 21.
Q22/Q22A: Good service but at times can bunch up. Why don't they just redesignate the 22a a extended Q22 part time by combining it to the main Q22? Only 1 bus line across the entire Rockaways plus infrequent train service its not fair to customers there. Has decent ridership, even on weekends. The 1st time I rode it on weekends, I was like whoa this much people ride this bus on the weekend. Also has decent headways but a 2nd route should be created.
Q35: Should have more service than it does now, especially on weekends, its every 20-30 minutes now. A good alternate to Kings Plaza, leaves you in front of the Toys R Us, good speed via Flatbush Av. But this route is flawed on headways, routewise its good but should be extended east on the Rockaways should the need come.
What do you think?
Comments. Criticism. Comments. Holla back.
Q21: The BIGGEST loser of all 3. It runs every 72 minutes except summers & the AM/PM rush, which is unheard of for a local bus. I say it should be combined with the Q41 calling it the Q41 and every other bus goes to the Rockaways while others terminate at 164 Av, its present terminal. It would give customers a one seat ride to the Rockaways, gives a 2nd option rather than taking the Q112 to the Q113 & going around Nassau and won't have to wait for an A at Rockaway Blvd then the S to B 116 St & it eliminates a transfer to the lost in space 21.
Sure. Combine the damn thigs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 21 is screwed anyways
Q22/Q22A: Good service but at times can bunch up. Why don't they just redesignate the 22a a extended Q22 part time by combining it to the main Q22? Only 1 bus line across the entire Rockaways plus infrequent train service its not fair to customers there. Has decent ridership, even on weekends. The 1st time I rode it on weekends, I was like whoa this much people ride this bus on the weekend. Also has decent headways but a 2nd route should be created.
I think the headways should be shortened. Thats it. You really dont needto do anything with the 22 (or 22A for that matter)
Q35: Should have more service than it does now, especially on weekends, its every 20-30 minutes now. A good alternate to Kings Plaza, leaves you in front of the Toys R Us, good speed via Flatbush Av. But this route is flawed on headways, routewise its good but should be extended east on the Rockaways should the need come
This is the best route. Only, put some orions on on weekends
As for the...
Q21: I agree with u. This route needs to go!! And your proposal for the combination w/ Q41 has mention here several times. My alternative would be if not combine rather let Q 53 take over.
Q22: I never understood that concept of the Q 22A but again I agree good service and the Q 22A should be just part of the Q22
Q35: I use this route alot in Brooklyn as my alternative to the crowded B 41 local and limited. To me it always seem to get to/from KP and Midwood faster than the B 41 limited. Many Flatbush Riders (besides your summer beach riders) never pick up the idea of using the Q 35 until it strted having it posted on bus stops. As u said I would like to see more headways and extended to Far Rockaway. My question is though via what road after Newport and 116 St (I would still keep it on Newport Av espicially for partial route.) either via the Q 22 or rockaway Beach Freeway or Avenue I believe.
Yeah how come I ALWAYS see two Q22's operating, one behind another. If anything's consistant on that route, it's the bunching!
Hello to everone on bus talk. I was off line for a bit had no money to pay for AOL.But now a got my frist paycheck from QSC AND NOW BACK ON LINE!! And i have a new email address is QSC5764@AOL.COM I LOVE MY NEW JOB!!!! Thank you guys for all your help and time!!!!......John QSC938
Due to current events down in the DC area, I must reluctantly pospone my visit to check out the Metro-Ride-On-Fairfax Connector bus scene. However when the law either catches or kills (preferable) the asswipe responsible for the situation, I will not hesitate to run down there as fast as i can to check things out.
But DC's loss is NYC's gain, I will high-tail it up there to check out the MTA-NJT scene when I get my next paycheck.
Man, I hope somebody gets those assholes for wht they did; what the hell is going on up there? These random snipes are just crazy! And I was thinking about going up there soon for some bus rides...sheeze, what next?
-F.
Who knows. While I am now able to make educated guesses about what might happen next, no one knows for sure and things change daily. Tomorrow will be another day without Metro rides although depending on how things unfold over the weekend, I might take the bus Monday and try out the new 47 route. I know how they might be able to catch this guy. They just need to wait for the time he makes one small mistake, in which some level headed person is able to get just that small bit of information that will help police get this guy, such as a liscence plate number or better vehicle description. Until then, we just have to live on edge.
Somebody has to know something, anything. I hope one of these thousands of leads the police are getting will turn into something concrete. I wish I could drive my g/f to work more and I'm scared when she has to wait at the bus stop, but she has odd hours being in retail and all and it makes things complicated when I'm working 20 miles the other direction. I may have to figure out a way for her to drive me and her take the car, but then I'd get stuck waiting on US50 for the bus to come home. No easy answers. Thanks to this son of a you know what for making everyone paranoid.
Do what you can to keep her safe. And yes, I hope they catch these bastards and throw the book at them. Even better...I hope they permanently jam the book up their sensitive orifices. Every single one of them. People like that should not be allowed to compromise our freedom.
Be careful out there. In the meantime, is WMATA service limited due to the catastrophies?
-F.
Not that I know of. Metro might get more ridership, because four of this fool's shootings have been at gas stations. People fearing to go to gas stations to refuel might instead take public transportation.
Fortunetly there have not yet been any shootings at any of the metro stations, park n ride lots or bus depots and hopefully it will not happen. This though is DEFINATELY not the way to get people to use public transportation. Also of note, I ususally take bus trips on my day off, but with this jackass running around I am not sure. This upcoming Monday is a holiday and Wednesday, I have to go to another audit, it won't be till next week till I might be able to go on another bus trip.
Sorry to hear that. You are not the only one to postpone a Washington trip. I think alot of people cancelled planned trips to D.C., because of this son of a you know what. When they catch this fool, forget lethal injection, forget the electric chair, they need to bring back the guillotine(sp?) and not only chop his sorry excuse for a head off but carve up his body and feed it to the lions at the National Zoo.
I wrote earlier this week that I spent part of last weekend in Philly and rode all their trolley lines. I asked what prevents a trolley from running a red signal in the tunnel. Nobody answered the question, so I ask it again.
Michael
Washington, DC
To the best of my knowledge, nothing. There are no provisions in the subway-surface tunnel to stop a trolley that runs a red signal (unlike the Market-Frankford subway that runs next to the subway-surface cars.)
Michael B.
Collegeville, PA
I've been on Subway-surface Trolleys that almost run into each other
especially from 30th to Juniper exit. It is strictly up the operators to maintain a "safe" distance between cars, kinda like on the surface. But of course that would mean headways of 10 seconds apart on the surface. I guess that would only happen when two different routes share some common trackage, then it's possible to have close together trolleys.
Chuck Greene
I was in Philly on 10-2-02 on a emergency. Since the electric buses in the north were out of service I went to look at the 79 and 29. I waited for one of each and both were thoses disel with thoses weird flattend tailpipes. Also one of the north south trolly was replaced by a diesel. Are all of SEPTA's electric buses on "temparry suspension" (permenent). Also some of the wire on the 29 is hanging really low I don't think that a elec. bus could pass. And MANNNN thoses lines run through pure GHETTO 'hoods. Abandoned schools aren't a good sight.
So Are the electric buses gone in Philly?
No more Trackless in Philly :-(
Well early this year septa took all the TT out of services:(.
But Septa does have plans to get more TT in the mid-distance future.
The three SEPTA TT routes that operate in lower Northeast Phila. (59, 66, & 75)have been dieselized since June because of construction around Frankford Terminal (Bridge-Pratt Station, eastern terminus of the Market-Frankford El). SEPTA claims that they will be returned to electric operation around the end of 2003. We'll see.
As for the 29 & 79 in South Philly, it's always a hit or miss on whether the TT's are running on them. I agree that both run through some pretty rough neighborhoods. (The 75 is also a tough one, while 59 & 66 are nicer rides.) Wonder which type of diesel you saw on them? Southern Depot (where both lines run from) has Neoplans, NABI's, & New Flyer low-floors, quite a variety.
Michael B., Collegevile, PA
I would imagine that he saw Neoplans on the 29 and 79, since that's usually Southern's MO as it comes to those lines. Up until the last schedule change, I'd see a mix of Neos and NABIs on the 59/66/75, with the bulk of the NABIs showing up on the 66 (which makes sense, since Frankford Av is fairly wide). Recently, though, I've seen a steady line of 3000 and 3100 series Neos running the 3 trackless lines (it sorta didn't help that SEPTA made 3 previously non-accessible bus routes - the 5 and 25 - wheelchair accessible starting with the fall schedule change).
Mike, Thanks for the report. The five of us who did all the colors of SEPTA this summer would have loved to have caught a Trackless had we had more information about them.
The 3 trackless lines in Northeast Philadelphia - the 59, 66, and 75 - are using buses until next year due to the reconstruction of Frankford Terminal. Because Frankford Depot is part of the Frankford Terminal complex, the overhead wiring had to be turned off, forcing the bus-titution.
As for the 29 and 79 in South Philadelphia, I don't know what the story is down there. I know there are tentative plans to bus the 29 for at least 3 years due to a reconstruction project near the western terminus near 33 St and Dickinson, around the area of the Tasker Homes housing project.
On weekends, the 29 and 79 also use buses for reasons that I can't figure out. At night, the South Philly lines use diesel buses because of concerns about neighborhood youth pulling down the wires when the bus is stopped.
How the ***k do you pull down live wire?
It is atleast 200 volts.
Well, the wires were turned off first before they were removed...
But they are still there. And why would they run electric busses on dead wire?
Oops, now I see the point of your earlier question. I did mean the poles, not the wires RE: 29/79.
You don't pull down the wires! You pull down the twin trolley poles so they lose contact with the electricfied overhead + & - lines. Then the kids let them snap back up missing the overhead lines. There is no danger of shock, since this is the same way an operator puts his poles up on the overhead. It is done with a non-conducting wire or rope. Sorta like a trolley car pole, only two of them.
Chuck Greene
You mean they will climb the back of the bus and pull'em down? Can't the rope be put behind a protective locked box like the NYCT R-62s with their emergency brakes.
That sounds like a good idea. Who do we propose it to?
Chuck Greene
Could there be a problem with the Used shoes that tend to end up tied to powerlines in South Philly? Could they cause problems?
Will the MCI's ever be used in local service like the suburban RTS and Orions?
If we're talking about NYC Transit's MCI over-the-road coaches, the only time I've ever seen them in local service was on September 11, when they were pressed into use to pick up people in Downtown Brooklyn after the people had run for their lives from the destruction of the World Trade Center. Other than that, I doubt they'll ever run in local service, though the codes are programmed into their signs.
David
I heard that once ran on the B64 and B74 in Coney Island over a weekend. I think there was a major Subway Shuttle and there was just not enought local buses at UP for there part so that pull them off the two lines with the least riders. I don't know if this is true or not, I was already out of UP when this happen.
Robert
NJ Transit uses MCI's in local service creating "too much bus" for the service. Oradell Garage is 100% MCI (162,163,164, 165 etc..) All lines originate in NY thus the situation...
Hey Guys,
Please check out my new website and let me know what you think. There is still a few things that will be changed but not many. There is alot of pictures and info but its geared mainly towards my business.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
NOT BAD! I love it, Scott!
Ok I remember sometime back (just before I joined bustalk) that you guys talked about filling the gaps in fleet #'s. Now, if the MTA took over Queens Surface, Triboro & Jamaica [I'll put Green Bus another time], what depots would you put these routes in? I'm doing local buses only. I would like to hear your ideas.
Notes:
1. Lets say the proposed Maspeth Depot was open
2. You can include proposed route combos if you like
3. Present depots in Queens (and FP of Brooklyn) would be annexed or have a new name
Triboro:
Q18 Maspeth
Q19 Maspeth
Q19A Maspeth
Q19B Would be combined with Q29
Q23 CS
Q29 FP
Q33 CS
Q38 FP
Q39 FP
Q45 Would be combined with Q47
Q47 Maspeth
Q53 JAM or CS
Q72 CS
Queens Surface:
Q25 CS
Q34 JAM
Q65 JAM
Q65A CS
Q66 CS
Q67 FP
Q69 FP
Q101 Maspeth
Q101R Maspeth
Q102 Maspeth
Q103 Would be combined with Q104
Q104 Maspeth
QBX1 Gun Hill/CS
Jamaica:
Q110 QV
Q111 JAM
Q112 JAM
Q113 JAM/QV
What do you think?
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
If the TA does take over they won't change much for a while.
Can you say MaBSTOA since 1962 & still a seperate operation in many ways.
First of all the MTA will also take over Green and Command as well.
Because of senority and union jurdistictions i believe that the following will happen
1-Command's routes and depot will be taken over by the Brooklyn Bus Division only. Drivers will be placed in the new OA Division or in the Queens Division because its ATU while the rest of the Brooklyn Division is TWU.
2-Green's routes will be taken over by the Queens Division because its ATU. Drivers will be placed in the new OA Division or in the Queens Division because of this. The Green Line Rockaway Depot will be closed and the main terminal will be taken over by the MTA.
NOTE: It will be possible that some Green Line routes will be placed in the Brooklyn Division(See Item # 3)
3-Jamica's routes will be taken over by the Queens Divison only because they are only 5 routes. Its drivers will be placed in the new OA Division that will be formed. Its garage may be leased by the MTA while the TA's Jamaica Depot is rebuilt.
4-Queens Surfice routes will be taken over by the new OA Division that will be formed. This will include its garage and drivers.
5-Triboro Coach routes will be taken over by the new OA Division that will be formed. This will include its drivers. If the Triboro routes can be placed in the College Point Queens Surfice garage then the MTA will not need the Triboro facility. If not then the MTA will have to purchase the garage which i believe will have to be done.
The new OA Queens Division will consist of all operating personnel from Queens Surfice,Jamaica Bus,Triboro Coach. It will be all TWU and will be a seperate division in the OA from the current Manhattan and Bronx garages.
Operating personnel from Command and Green Lines will have an option of being placed in the new OA division or becoming regular TA workers in the Queens Division.
The new OA division will be formed in senority from when they started at their current position. If you go to the Queens Division of the TA you go to the bottom of the current TA list .
This is my opinion only
I will deal with the route placement in another post.
Thank You
4
Well the guys at those companies will have a lot to say about it.
I'll bet NONE want to be part of TA or any new, former private, combined seniority list.
I must of left out Command but I did say that I'll put Green Lines in another post.
Anyway,
"2-Green's routes will be taken over by the Queens Division because its ATU. Drivers will be placed in the new OA Division or in the Queens Division because of this. The Green Line Rockaway Depot will be closed and the main terminal will be taken over by the MTA."
I think that the MTA should buy it, assuming they have $$$. Well its in Queens so its logical ;-).
"NOTE: It will be possible that some Green Line routes will be placed in the Brooklyn Division(See Item # 3)"
Most likely the Q7 and Q8. Would come out of ENY
Since you talk about creating a new OA division, it's abbreviation should be "QOA"/Queens Operating Authority
"4-Queens Surfice routes will be taken over by the new OA Division that will be formed. This will include its garage and drivers."
True. Wouldn't be right if they get laid off.
"5-Triboro Coach routes will be taken over by the new OA Division that will be formed. This will include its drivers. If the Triboro routes can be placed in the College Point Queens Surfice garage then the MTA will not need the Triboro facility. If not then the MTA will have to purchase the garage which i believe will have to be done."
I believe they would have to buy both for extra space ($$$ pending). Plus it has a CNG refueling station so in case Casey Stengel needs fuel, there's a nearby facility.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I agree with much of your stated opinions, with the exception of:
"Operating personnel from Command and Green Lines will have an option of being placed in the new OA division or becoming regular TA workers in the Queens Division."
They cannot become regular TA workers in the Queens Division because we (Queens Division TA) are a civil service entity.
Command and Green may become the Brooklyn Division of the ATU, not unlike 126th Street is the TWU agency of Manhattan. That Brooklyn Division would be an ATU represented, non-civil service entity, open to prospective applicants.
But all this is only temporary anyway. When the MTA forces Regional Bus down the throats of the TWU and ATU, no buses will run anywhere... or trains, for that matter.
Yes they can become emplyoed by the Queens Division subject to them taking a test or they can become provisional workers.
Also they can just be dessinated civil service workers which happened in the 1940's when the BMT,IRT,North Shore Bus,Isle Transportaion and East Side and Comprehensive all were taken over by the then Board of Transportation.
As long as they go on the bottom of the current list and not take anyone's jobs then it can happen
Thank You
I see. Suppose an operator with 15 years on the job at one of the private agencies fails the test. Is this individual now out of a job? What test would they take? Would they take an entry level exam by the DCAS open to the general public as well, or a test specially designed and held just for those wishing to "transfer" from the privates to the TA?
Where would they place in seniority order with an existing exam list?
Would their time as a private operator be considered as a percentage increase or additional point value on this exam?
Wouldn't it make more sense from the perspective of the operator to move an entire garage into the system, keeping their seniority intact (peg, days off, pay, vacation, etc), as opposed to dropping to the bottom of a TA garage?
I would imagine the unions would demand such.
They will be placed in senority at the bottom of the current Queens Division list but in order on how they were hired
ie-If a Green Line Driver was hired in 1980 he will be placed on the list of a driver hired in 2000 but still behind a TA Queens Driver hired in 2001 if the driver opts to work in the TA Queens Division.
If that some driver opts to work in the new OA Queens Division he will be placed in the division from the date the driver was hired by Green Bus.
By the way in 1975 when New York City laid off police and firemen due to the fiscal mess back then may of these laid off city workers were hired by the TA as bus drivers.
I do not recall if they had to return to their old city job or were allowed to remain as Bus Drivers.
I knew a TA Bus driver who quit the TA to become a City Cop was laid off and then went back to the TA as a driver. However do not know ehat happended after that. He use to date my sister.
Thank You
[If that some driver opts to work in the new OA Queens Division...]
New OA Queens Division? When was that announced? When did the NYS Senate and Assembly modify the Public Authorities Law to broaden the scope of MABSTOA beyond Manhattan and the Bronx? When did Pataki sign it? Why was that not in the papers?
If you're merely speculating, please say so. If what you're describing is fact, please provide supporting documentation.
I apologize for the confusion.
If you read my earlier posts on the subjects i said it was speculation.
Please forgive me for the confusion
Thank You
More importantly which routes will be eliminated.
For instance the B2 and B100 in brooklyn are a duplication in service. They could easily be combined.
Since MTA would also take over the depots of the private companies, such wholesale depot shifting wouldn't be needed. Also, if private routes are moved TO MTA depots, some MTA routes would have to be moved FROM those depots, unless those MTA depots have enough extra space for the additional buses needed to operate those added routes. From what I've read on this board, I don't think too many MTA depots fit that description.
It might make sense to trade some routes between the private depots and the MTA depots (I haven't taken the time to figure out which ones), but a lot of the routes currently run by the privates would logically stay right where they are. For example, the Q25 and the Q65 both pass within a block or two of the QSC depot, and there aren't any MTA routes that pass that area, so (IMHO) it wouldn't make sense to trade those routes out.
I like the idea of the QBX1 coming out of Gun Hill. I'm not sure if GH has room for the extra equipment, and if not, they'd have to give up one of their present routes....but which one and to where? Or, if the city takeover includes New York Bus Service, maybe the QBX1 could run out of there. IIRC, either move would mean no more CNG buses on the QBX1.
Thurston is probably correct in his statement that not much would change right away. Get the takeover done first, and then figure out what moves might make sense.
Your view makes since, but that doesn't mean that what they do will make any since.
Also read the fine print of what Kalikon said:
"He'd agree to such a deal only if State & City subsidies continue so (his) agency would not incur financial losses."
Hmmm, where's the money going to come from to BUY the depots that are privatly owned ? Not for George, no way.
Hmmm, If Mayor Mike isn't going to save any money, maybe he'll do a Gilda Radner ... never mind !
All of these comments, interesting as they are, have only given minimal coverage to the issue of merging union seniority lists, made more complicated because both the TWU and ATU now represent drivers on both NYCTA and privates. History tells us this can be most difficult nut to crack.
Case in point: 1960, after New York City made Lexington and Third Aves. a one way pair. Surface Transit operated the M101 Third/Amsterdam route, while 5th Ave. Coach/NYCO division operated the old #3 and #4 on Lexington. Both TWU, same ownership, but different cotracts and seniority lists (Surface Transit drivers were paid about 10 cents per hour less). The M101 took over the Lexington Ave. service while the old #2/Madison Ave. (now ironically the M102) took over the Lenox Ave. branch of the old #4. A strike ensued because some 5th Ave. Coach drivers shifted to Surface lost pay and seniority. A compromise was reached after about a week under which short turn M101 runs between 125th and 23d Streets were operated by 5th Ave. drivers paid at the higher rate without loss of seniority.
Are you the "Andy" from UP?
No
Let's look at the big picture for a moment, the behind-the-scenes items. Take a look at the individual pension funds at each of the privates, and how they differ with the OA's, MTA's, TA's, etc. If there is unfunded liability in any (and there [is] will be), then this has to be settled via difficult negotiating. Seniority issues are a Union Problem. It doesn't matter what seniority is where so long as the work gets picked according to an economic pick. And the difference in working conditions, CBA's, etc. And what about the promise to save "millions in the first several years". All eyes will be on this one too. According to an out of town newspaper article, the talk is about the "5 private Queens Comapnies". Buy there are 7 privates including New York Bus Service and Liberty Express. And don't forget the Westchester operation too (I don't think this one will materialize as fast). But I'm quite syure that the MetroCard will come to Westchester soon.
There are actually FOUR owners:
- Cooper group = Green, cTc, Jamaica, Command
- QSC
- NY Bus
- Liberty
Five if you count Atlantic Exp in SI
Whatever happened to Steinway? Were they absorbed into Queens Surface?
Peace,
ANDEE
Steinway Transit and Queens Transit were affiliated under one ownership in 1939, and remained so unti 1986. That year the owner sold the companies and since then the firm morphed into Queens Surface (don't know more details).
Saw this bus on the M1 yesterday supporting the ORIGINAL Green sign. A few weeks ago, this bus was supporting an Orange Sign. I do have a pic of this bus as proof that the sign was Orange and probably the reason for the switch. I did not get a pic of it supporting a green sign however.
If anyone would like to see the pic, email me and place in the Subject Line MTA Orion or "Onion" 246 so that I can send you the pic.
I wonder if 240 244 247 412 428 and 522 have their Orange signs still installed?
#246 M1
Bus #522 already had theirs installed. That was the first.
412, which is now at Gun Hill does not have the orange signs anymore. Saw it on Bainbridge last weekend.
Peace,
Kevin
WHATTTTT??? Neither does 436, which got the signs taken out so fast...
Good thing I got a pic of #246 on the M1 and #412 on the M100 before they were taken out...
Why are they taking them out?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
To my understanding they broke on one of the buses. To my understanding they have the Green LED's on the front and the orange LED on the back sign. I got my shots as well.
If you ask me, I think they should install green Laminator signs likethe Orion V's.
#246 has green LED signs on all sides now...
Cleanairbus
The following are a list of changes I would make if New York City Transit takes over the routes of Command,Green,Jamica,Queens Surfice and Triboro Coach
LOCAL AND LIMITED STOP SERVICE
Command Bus
1- Consolidate Route B-100 with TA Route B-2 which will be extended from Kings Plaza to 56th Drive/Strickland Avenue
2- B-103 to be redesignated B-53. No other changes
Green Bus Lines
1- Consolidate Route Q-21 with Triboro Coach route Q-53. Route which will be designated Route Q-21 will make all stops between Beach 116th Street and Liberty Avenue then limited stops to 61st Street-Woodside
2-Consolidate Route Q-10A with Route Q-10 which will now be a branch only.
3-Consolidate Route Q-22A into Route Q-22
4-Redesignate Route Q-35 as Route B-32. Assign to Flatbush Depot Brooklyn Division
5-Redesignate Route Q-9A as Route Q-89. Extend service span
Jamica Buses
1-Redesignate Route Q-110 as Route Q-80. Assign to Queens Division-Queens Village Depot
2-Consolidate Routes Q-111 and Q-113 into Route Q-81. Assign to Queens Division-Jamaica Depot
3-Redesignate Route Q-112 as Route Q-82. Assign to Queens Division-Jamaica Depot
Queens Surfice
1-Redesignate Route Q-25/34 as Route Q-25. Reroute to Jamaica Center Station
2-Redesignate Route Q-65 as Route Q-35. Reroute to Jamaica Center Station
3-Redesignate Route Q-65A as Route Q-34
4-Redesignate Route Q-66 as Route Q-86
5-Redesignate Route Q-67 as Route Q-57. Assign to Brooklyn Division Fresh Pond Depot
6-Redesignate Route Q-101 as Route Q-51
7-Redesignate Route Q-101A as Route Q-71
8-Redesignate Route Q-102 as Route Q-52
9-Consolidate Route Q-103 into Triboro Coach Route Q-19
10-Redesignate Route Q-104 as Route Q-53
11-Divide Route QBX-1 into 2 routes. Queens to Bronx service to be designated as Route Q-50 and assigned to Queens Division-Casey Stengel Depot. Bronx portion to be designated Route Bx-23 and assigned to Gun Hill Depot
Triboro Coach
1-Q-19 to be consolidated with Queens Surfice Q-103
2-Q-53 to be consolidated with Green Lines Q-21
3- Routes Q-38 and Q-39 to be assigned to Brooklyn Division Fresh Pond Depot
4-Redesignate Route Q-19A as Route Q-49
5-Redesignate Route Q-19B as Route-Q-78
Changes on Express routes and depot assignments to be posted later
Thank You
Okay, somebody has completely lost his mind!
First, Green Bus Lines.......uh NO!
Stop talking about the Q21 and Q53 combo....it's too long! it wno't happen. You brought it up before (courtsey of Bus Archives). Give that a rest. Next, combine the Q10 and Q10A..how? Q10 LTD on the Van Wyck? Nope! Never! The B32? The last time a Brooklyn bus route went to the Rockaways was the B9 and B46 during the Summer time! Nope!
Jamamica Bus Lines
Why combine the Q111 and Q113? Q111 goes to Rosedale...why do that?
Queens Surface and Triboro Coach...no comment BUT nice idea on extending the Q25, Q34 and Q65 to Jamaica Center. Just do not renumber the routes.
There really wouldn't be a reason to change a majority of the routes. The only ones I would change are the "A" routes, but then again we have the Q20A/B, so we could keep routes like the Q65A. The 3-digit route numbers can also be kept. Manhattan has the M100, M101, etc... so there wouldn't be any need to renumber the Q101, Q113, and others. All these changes would cost alot of money. Hundred of signs would have to be made and installed, and new maps printed. Basically most of these changes are and would be unnecessary.
Hey there QM1. Send me a E-Mail why don't ya. E-mail me at MTAboy99@aol.com
If the mayor & TA want to save some money right away, why don't they agree to eliminate all the express bus service & let ride under ground or take the ferry, heck it was a "private" idea in the first place ?
Oh that's right, most of those riders actually VOTE.
I think they should not cancel Express Bus Service. There should be Route Cut's if the city have problems instead of a Fare Hike
I'd prefer a fare hike with service coverage increases. Buses cost money to run...many people don't understand that.
All this merger/name change/consolidation crap which will probably never happen anyway will cost billions of dollars now to save a few million later. Don't any of these suits know they don't have any money as it is? Some guy on the news that it will make our ride faster?? Changing names will make things faster? Things seem ok as they are now.
Ok, your plans don't sound bad but I don't think you should re# routes because it will only cause a whole lot of confusion. Here's my picks for Command & Green Bus lines (I may list NYBS, Liberty Bus Lines & expresses in another post).
Command:
B100: FB with increased headways
B103: FB or ENY
Green Bus Lines:
Q6: JAM or QV
Q7: ENY
Q8: ENY
Q9: JAM
Q9A: JAM
Q10: CS/JAM
Q10A: Not a bad idea to combine these two BUT you would have to create a limited stop service(If it stays would be CS)
Q21: Would be combined with Q41. NOT A GOOD IDEA to combine with the Q53
Q22*: A new depot would be created in the Rockaways called Rockaway Depot(assuming MTA could buy it) (Rockaway)*
Q22A: Would be combined with Q22
Q35: FB (or Rockaway)*
Q37: CS
Q40: Would either be combined to a extended 60 OR extend the Q40 via Queens Blvd to create a Q60 limited (Q40's would be local), similar to the Q20/44. Wouldbe JAM
Q41: JAM (or Rockaway)*
Q60: CS/JAM
What do you think?
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
This uh Rockaway Depot, would this be considered Queens or Brooklyn division when the takeover happens? It will be happening trust me. Also CS needs MORE buses a friend of mine frequently has to wait 15 mins+ to make his relief in Flushing. Not good. what else will happen when the take over begins?
It would be part of the Queens division. Whoa, you're really confident the MTA will take over ;-).
Yeah, CS really needs buses. The MTA would paint over the private buses(of course) and they could use the present facilities that QSC, GBL, Triboro, Jamaica Bus & Command have for annexation of current depots.
A whole lot is going to happen alright.
Don't jump to conclusions so fast. NYC awards the routes to the state or privates. Unless legislation is passed in Albany taking away this piece of "home rule" the state cannot just come in and usurp the city's power.
Also remember that the Cooper family garages TCC,JBL,GBL and Command are private companies WHO OWN THEIR OWN GARAGES. The state cannot come in and confiscate private property. That would be called an illegal seizure and is unconstitutional. The state would have to go to court and get the court to condemn the land by "emminent domain" and then fight it out for years as to how much the owner must be compensated. Check another part of this site for the history of buses in Manhattan and read about the city takeover of the Fifth Avenue Coach Company routes, buses and garages in 1962 and how long it took to determine the price.
Queens Surface rents its facility from NYC so that is not as big a problem as the Cooper properties.
Question - What will happen to the other two privates----Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service. If they're not included in this proposed takeover, you can bet your bottom dollar, that all the politicians and civic leaders from Queens will holler DISCRIMINATION long and loud.
"Question - What will happen to the other two privates----Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service. If they're not included in this proposed takeover, you can bet your bottom dollar, that all the politicians and civic leaders from Queens will holler DISCRIMINATION long and loud."
First off, New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines operate Bronx-Manhattan express routes.
That's a good question. As for those two services, it will be intersting if they stay independent. I agree that the politicans & civic leaders would think that.
Command's facility is also owned by the City's DOT.
Cooper was able to arrange the new garage.
BTW-Command never owned its own garage. The original Command gargae was Varsity Buses(also a Cooper owned business) Brooklyn garage.
Thank You
There was a Pioneer Bus Facility on Strickland Avenue, west of Mill Avenue, between the El Caribe and Coppola Trucking in the mid 80's. Is this the depot you're referring to?
That facility was never owned by Command Bus.
It was owned by Pioneer and ceased operations when Pioneer closed in June 1979
Thank You
You have very nice ideas.
Green Bus Lines:
I agree with the Q35 being redesignated B32 and yes it should be assigned to FLA. However, I would even consider combining the Q35 and Q22 while still maintaining its FLA assignment.
The Q22A is simply a spotted school trip to/from Far Rockaway HS.
The Q9A should be eliminated or restructured somehow. Perhaps to the Rockaway Blvd. "A" station. I would use Q89 elsewhere.
Queens Surface:
The Q25 and Q34 have been seperate routes since 1993, so renaming the Q65A to a number that it currently intersects would cause too much confusion. Q69 would fit a little better for the Q65A.
The Q101, Q102 should be renamed Q61 and Q62. This way their route numbers would be consistent with the Q60 at Queensboro Plaza.
To quote the famous president of the Gotham Bus Company, the Q19 and Q103 are two useless lines that can be useless together. Good idea.
The Q104 could use Q78 perhaps.
I agree with splitting the QBx1 and I even agree with the Queens route designation of Q50. However, the old Bx23 ran in the general vicinity of the current QBx1, so why not keep it simple and use Bx51 for the Bronx porion.
Jamaica Buses:
Q110, Q111 and Q113 become the Q70, Q71 and Q73.
The Q112 would take Q82.
cTc:
Q19A becomes Q49
Q19B becomes Q89
And will somebody please do something about that God-awful routing of the Q38!
Mark
Mark,
I was thinking that routes 61 to 70 be designated for express bus routes
I also think that the Q-35 and Q-22 route will be too long
Also the Q-25 and Q-34 should be one number like the B-41 and Q-46 one route with two branches
Thank You
"Also the Q-25 and Q-34 should be one number like the B-41 and Q-46 one route with two branches"
I agree. It should just be another branch redesignated Q25 instead of Q34. The only thing is 25's have extra service operating between Jewel Av & Flushing train station. So what would you do about that(rather than giving 25's 3 NORTH TERMINALS)?
Why not
The B-6 has three peak hour terminals Ralph Ave,Rkway Pkway Station and New Lots Ave Peak direction PM
Nostrand Ave,Coney Island Ave, Bay 38th Street AM Peak
Thank You
hi, Didn't the city build the command garage in canarsie/ENY? If/When the privatesa are desolved in to the ta wouldn'T the city just sign over ownership of the ficility over to the ta? Also isn't teh ta looking a building a new depot in Queens by JFK?
Saw 9701 on the T2 this afternoon without a bike rack. My observations have been limited this past week since I have been out of town and because I have not ridden the Metro as a result of the recent events in the area. I don't konw when I might start taking the Metro again as things change on a daily basis. I do invite anyone interested to read the thread about safety on the Metro on SubTalk, started by Nick. I have participated in the thread, which I believe is entitled "DC Sniper and the Metro", and Wayne Johnson and RoninBayside have contributed as well. I hope this info helps you find this rather interesting thread.
I went to MCI website a minute ago and read the news about them developing concept buses for the transit market. This news was posted September 23, 2002. I did not get the chance to read it all because I have to catch my bus and go riding with my driver friend and talk bus stuff.
Like all of you, I feel really disappointed that MCI is not bringing the Flxible METRO back into the market. Instead, they are working with a foreign company in Brazil to develope some CONCEPT designs. I forgot the person's name who posted hear that he said it best that the Flxible METRO bus has a great proven track record, it has been the number one selling bus a few times, it dominated the bus market in some years, it does not break down as much as the other buses, a really HOT design and there's more which I can't add on because I'm about to leave in a few minutes.
It sickens me when I read this news about them going concept with some one else and not making the METRO better than ever. It's the "Common Sense" bus. Damn them. Soooo, I was woundering and I would like for us bus fans who really want the METRO back. Who do we contact from MCI to send an analysis to TAs would they like to have the METRO BACK and what amenities would you like to add to it, plenty of options ect. Thank you and you all have a safe enjoyable weekend!
Ronnie
Flxible forever!
I was riding the B41 and all week I noticed that B65's were running via Livingston St! :-O. I was like OK a malfunction in the dest. signs but I seen them all week. Turns out they're doing road work on Bergen St so it may be detoured for a few weeks. This only affects WB buses.
Here's the detour:
Buses turn off Bergen, makes a right on Flatbush Av, turns left on Livingston St then a right on Smith St.
I saw no notcies in advance telling people about the work
I bet it have to do with Atlantic Avenue construction.
I see B65 & B49 Buses detouring today, what with that?
-AcelaExpress2005
as of today a new bus roster is available at the utc website. 1852 still alive but now at hudson. most 1984 buses are off the roster.
I got a couple of questions. What happened to buses #4371, #4373-4374 from KB? Also buses #4807 and 4824 from MV, #4892 from YUK? Are ALL the Orions are repowered? Why is the X26 at Yukon? Should it be with Micheal J. Quill? Is the scrap section updated...meaning are these buses really going to scrap or they will be used again as back ups?
The last time I checked, the x26 is out of Quill...what you saw on the x26 is probably some ex-Yukon (or even ex-Castleton) Orion V repowered buses.
Thank you
Cleanairbus
The answers to those and all other questions can be answered on the transitalk roster maintained by your's truly. Oh well, just because your handle represents a JAM Nova, I'll tell you. Buses 4371, 4373 4374, 4824 and 4892 are probably laying on their sides at Nimco Scrap Yard in NJ. Bus 4807 is sitting in Carlton Yard in Brooklyn and will join the aforementioned buses real soon.
Mark
I stopped by NIMCOs Thursday. 3850 with the old style numerals, a few other 3800s and NJT 3100s and 3500s are there. There also was 3 Bee Line De-Articulated MAN coaches too. I spotted a blue striped 3 digit ORION from MTA in the back getting its tanks and engine removed for crushing.
Probably 473 Orion V
Thanks Mark. One thing though, the Transitalk roster has "Updated...August 21st, 2002". Thanks anyway.
I just sent an update, and I've been fairly regular with my updates. Someone must be dropping the ball
So, it's on Transitalk? I'll check it out! Thanks Mark....I never did doubt you about the updates!
People say that this bus has Orange LED's.Well i saw this Bus today and had a regular sign.I had a GOOD look at it because the bus i take is right out side my house.Whats up with this?
now that's strange,i wonder why the hell they removed the orange LED signs.I saw that bus with it a few times while it was still part of Amsterdam Depot and on the Bx6 route.To me they should've kept it.
ALL Orion V's should have a orange LED sign that way it's easier to read at night than the regular ones.
Perhaps the sign manufacturer(s) loaned the signs to NYCT for testing purposes for a fixed amount of time (6 months, a year, whatever), and at the end of the test the signs had to go back to the manufacturer(s).
David
This bus is running the 31 today.And im sure for real.It has regular signs.This bus has surely been runnin on the 31 alot.
Anybody know if 428 still has its orange signs?
The roster says that 4653 is not in Fresh Pond, is this true? If it's at Carlton stg., then that means there are only 243 buses in FP.
The shortage is getting closer, FP really can't afford to lose anymore buses.
i keep going to the website and it says updated as of august 21. If it is updated, can u send me the link?
Northern is now starting to get bike racks. I spotted 8913, 8906, 9803,9809, 2172, 2175 and 2196 have bike racks. Also spotted from Four Mile Run were 2064 and 2078 with bike racks. Cameras have been spotted on 2052 as well as on 2058. I rode 2052 on Wednesday, but did not see any cameras on the inside, does anyone know if they have cameras on the inside?
Yes, I saw them too. I saw so many Northern buses today that I lost track of what were where, but I think 9370 now sports a rack. I'm waiting to see them start showing up on the NABI's.
Wayne
The Montgomery NABIs have them, I am sure Northern will get them too, soon.
I am waiting to see one of those racks on an Orion II. That will be amusing.
I am a bit surprised to see the 8900s with bike racks, since they primirally were delivered with the 8800s. I have spotted about 3-8800s with bike racks and only one 8700 with a bike rack. It seemed like they did those things overnight, because a couple of days ago I didn't see one with a bike rack, but now seeing practically all of them with one. Also another note Western's 4356 doesn't have a bike rack yet, this bus must have just been in the body shop. If I recall, this bus was the victim of a freak accident over a year ago. When this ran over a steel plate, the plate bent up causing damage to the underside of this bus. Can any D.C. busfan verify this was the bus that was the steel plate's victim.
P.S. I hate steel plates.
Never heard about the steel plate incident nor have I seen the bus as of late. Then again, I haven't seen many buses since I have not been taking the Metro as a result of the events of the past week and a half.
It actually might have happened more than a year ago, but it happened right at the beginning of the morning rush, in Georgetown. It was running a thirty route and was on M street when it happened. This wouldn't explain why this bus doesn't have a bike rack. Something else might have happened, like just getting out of the body shop for some other reason or was on loan to another garage.
You have to admit, it is a beauty!
But could it be applied successfully in local service on certain high-capacity New York routes?
Keeping in mind that it is just a matter of time until the idea of 45' long low-floor transit buses become a reality in this country.
The floor is open for discussion.
:-)
I think it could work in a city like NYC. The heavy patronage on many of the bus routes obviously justifies using 45 footers. In fact, the use of the 45 foot MCI's on Express routes, and artics in the Bronx and parts of Manhattan justifies a look-see at enlarging the average local transit bus to 45 feet. And another thing, back in the day, the average length of a trolley car was.....45 FEET!
I believe I read posts around here that Queens is going to get another bus depot. Would Flushing Airport be ideal for this? If anyone doesn't know, it's that stretch of land along 20th Avenue in College Point. It's near a Target, Old Navy, Mickey D's....
Considering the NYCDOT owns the QSC depot on 28th Avenue - down the road from the backside of the Multiplex at Linden Place - would the community stand for two large depots so close togther.
Also I wouldn't suggest any new construction until the state takeover business is settled one way or the other.
It would be more logical to expand the QSC facility if the state takes over the privates assuming a depot for the current city buses is needed.
Also seems close to Casey Stengel---would you close that one? Can it be expanded by building a two story building or would the FAA stop that since it would be directly under the landing approach for LAG bound jets.
<>
IIRC, Flushing Airport is on the FAA's list of airfields capable for emergency landings.
LMAO! Considering the condition the place is in, I'd advise the FAA to take that airport off the list.
The propsed Queens depot would be located in Maspeth called Maspeth depot.
Would you close the current Casey Stengel depot, would you annex it OR would you give the QSC garage a new name [assuming the takeover becomes reality]?
Something is going on there now (construction crews). There is also some work going on at the NY Times plant next door, but I think it different crews.
Really? Now that I think about it, whenever I hitch a ride on the Q25 to College Point, when it gets to the South Side of that place, I notice a trailer and a bulldozer. That's some real progress there!
Well when the Daily News Article discussed the possibility of the MTA seeking control of the Private Bus Lines, I say hey, go right after the Westchester Bus Lines, thats a huge resource that the MTA should absorb and make the MTA Westchester Bus Network, where all 50+ routes. There are instant benifits, such as subway riders get their Free Subway-Bus Transfers, also the MTA would set up some Express Bus Service, like the BxM4C would become the WM1, and the could create routes that go from New Rochelle/ Mount Vernon to downtown manhattan WM2, and from other important areas, or Downtown Yonkers to Manhattan the WM3. I know the MTA would also increase the frequency of some routes, such as city bound routes or main road routes. I think alot of westchester riders would appreciate it too. What do you think?
ALSO THE MTA WOULD HAVE EXTRA BUSSES MAYBE.
The Westchester County D.O.T. has a good control over the buses now, and provide a decent service FOR A GOOD PRICE AND BUDGET. They would probably be against a takeover unless it saved subisdy $$ for the County. What would become of the WCDOT?
Bottom line - I think it will be a long while until the Westchester operation becomes part of the MTA, however I think the MetroCard fare boxes are very close.
By the way, last count, there were 67 routes and about 30 deviations in the Westchester bus network.
[What would become of the WCDOT?]
It would still be there, taking care of highways and bridges. It just wouldn't have the Bee-Line buses.
Don't forget that WCDOT also maintains the Westchester County Airport just east of White Plains.
Well. Right now Liberty Lines is the contractor for Bee Line. When theres a opening for Bee Line finding a new contractor then MTA should jump in and take over.
It a good idea but I think they really aren't thinking about that right now. People going from the city to Westchester won't have to pay a double fare, it would most likely eliminate 35 cent transfers and would provide better service, especially the city bound routes(1,2,20,21,60 etc.). Right now though, the Westchester DOT is doing a pretty good job so a takeover is not likely as the MTA's proposed takeover of DOT privates. It would bring new riders to its system also plus you could extend routes into Westchester like the BX16, BX34 and BX41{there's more but I'm using those routes as a example).
Note: This is what I think would happen should a takeover occur and none of this is guaranteed to happen.
Just a thaught.....
If the MTA (does) takesover can it be also possible that the format could be as similar as the way MTA LI Busses are run?
They must do something about the LI buses. That system has some issues on some of its routes, and from what I've seen from other bustalkers personal experiences, the N20/21 looks like the worst routes in that whole system.
Technically the Bx16 does go into Westchester County already, there is one bus stop in Mount Vernon
Don't touch their management. They are extremely responsive to customer input and change routes as needed. We should give all the MTA routes to them:)
Interesting....
I can also see Bx9 and other buses from the Bronx having bether terminals that will be easier to get to other (Bee - line) routes.
It seems a natural that if the MTA doesn't take over Liberty Express and New York Bus Service that NYCDOT should prepare to have one Bronx express operstor. It will eliminate duplication of services. Then NYBS would be a school bus carrier and LLE would be gone. But bottom line is $$$ savings. I'm surprised that NYCDOT hasn't tried to consolidate the two operations previously.
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
AT 7:30 ET TONIGHTBusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject and are the only people who can make announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the opening, closing, delay, cancellation, postponement, software, server, or technical difficulties with the chat. When in doubt over what you are about to do, don't do it! If you have a problem with any of the above issues, e-mail an operator. Please do not post on SubTalk or BusTalk! This also applies to responding to this message. Do not respond to this message unless you are posting a question relevant to Chatham Square. Do not post announcements pertaining to the chat.
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic, or any of the above) will be punted and/or banned from Chatham Square with or without warning at the discretion of the operator(s).ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC, do not click the link, just do your thing! Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
They seem to only be running on Saturday nights. 5299 was on the 92, I was driving along side it on Woodmont Avenue tonight. Also saw more southern (Ride-On) buses on the T2.
Route 92 operates every day except Sunday. They run throughout the day M-F and only in the evenings on Saturdays.
Michael
I was referring to the trolleybuses themselves, not the actual route. Weekday operations have been given to ATE/Ryder. This started on September 1 although service did not begin until September 3 because 9/1 and 9/2 were Sunday schedules. The trolleys operate out of Ride-On's Silver Spring garage and it seems that Silver Spring only operates the 92 on Saturday nights.
Hope this clears things up!
I was referring to the trolleybuses themselves, not the actual route.
Please don't refer to stupid, rubber-tired trolleycar replica buses as "trolleybuses." A trolleybus is a real, heavy-duty transit vehicle consisting of a motorbus body and powered by electricity from overhead wires. A trolleybus isn't a joke of a light-duty, novelty piece of garbage that's supposed to fool people into thinking that they're "stepping back in time." What a waste of time and money. If you want to honor the heritage of transit, do it with dignity - not with chincy trolley replicas. A board like this is the last place I expect to hear "trolleybus" used to stand for anything other than a genuine trolleybus.
I consider it to be a trolleybus, do you have a technical name for it? If you provide one for me to use, I will be glad to use it.
If you want to see this thing, it is here:
http://www.geocities.com/otprideonpics/bethesda8.htm
Yes - there is a technical name for such vehicles: trolley replicas. That's how APTA classifies them in all of its publications; it's also how anyone who knows what a real trolleybus is (which I assume you do) distinguishes these disgraceful vehicles from genuine trolleybuses.
I normally refer to the trolleybus that you refer to as a trackless trolley, since in a literal sense, a trolleybus is a bus that looks like a trolley. Although thank you for informing me of what the common term to describe them is.
In my post of If Westchester bus lines..., I said should the MTA takeover Westchester, they should extend current BX routes to Yonkers, Mount Vernon, etc. and improve the current Westchester lines that go from Westchester to the Bronx, in terms of intervals.
Now on MTA LI Bus and NYCT lines in Queens, if they are both MTA controlled, how come NYCT routes besides the Q5 & Q85 which go to Green Acres don't go into Nassau? Do they think our buses are "too dirty" or "too urban" for their streets. Anyway, I think buses like the Q4,Q12,Q36,Q43,Q46, etc. should be extended to Nassau to run with or trim down LI bus routes that run with NYCT routes. Extending the express buses, particularly the X68 could make Queens expresses more attractive and bring more riders.
Why are they scrapping the 1990 Orions so quickly, they are good buses, in fact of the few times I rode LI buses, those are my favorite buses in the whole fleet, now its going to become bland with only Orion CNG's(although they have very good accel & the drivers are good). They could/should keep them (1990 Orions) as reserves,except the ones they didn't 'retire'. Right now, LI Bus is inconsistent, flawed and its needs help so a little NYCT "influence" could help spur up LI buses.
I would like your opinions on this.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I agree, the 600s are in good shape, but do have some leaks. Leaks can be fixed however with patching. The Orions in the 500 series were good too.
LI Bus has a goal of being 100% CNG, to please the tree huggers. It's all a bunch of political BS.
The diesel Orions still run great, and are generally more reliable than the CNG's.
And since LI Bus needs all the buses it can get, they shouldn't be scrapping any.
I totally agree about LI Bus needing some NYCT influence. The only "once an hour routes" should be the low ridership runs in eastern Nassau. Having routes like the N21, running hourly, is simply in adequate. It is actually most problematic on weekends, when you have buses between Roslyn and Flushing at 30 minute headways. They get packed going to Flushing. Combined with traffic, weekend N20/21 is a nightmere. Sunday afternoon, buses always are going out of Flushing 20-30 minutes late.
Also the traffic situation on Northern Blvd doesn't help. The state has the timing on the traffic lights in Nassau all off, so traffic (and buses) do not move through the area quickly.
Now alot of LI Bus routes, such as the Hempstead turnpike routes (N70,71,72) and the Jamaica-Roosevelt field routes (like N22 and N24) are a good deal more reliable. Worst problem is with the North shore.
Perhaps there needs to be another depot up here, so buses can have easier access in case of breakdowns, and they will be closer for put-ins on late buses. (of course the North shore NIMBY's will try to stop it)
OR, with the MTA merge, the N20/21 will become a Casey Stengal route.
In the subways, they make sure every route's terminal is near a yard. It should be the same with buses.
The N20/21 is nowhere near Mitchell field depot, which also contributes to the problems.
"LI Bus has a goal of being 100% CNG, to please the tree huggers. It's all a bunch of political BS.
The diesel Orions still run great, and are generally more reliable than the CNG's."
100% CNG?? It sounds good but scrapping reliable buses like the 1990/1991 Orions for them thats just plain dumb. If they didn't want it, they should have transferred them to NYCT and re# them in the 300's series because we could use extra buses, particularly Casey Stengel and Yukon. I agree it is political BS they are trying to convert before the time is right :-\.
If the MTA LI Bus is absorbed into NYCT, those 2 routes should really be looked at. Assuming it is absorbed, they should extend Q12's into Nassau and make that or one of the N roues, in this case the 20 and 21 a limited stop service 7 days a week. The 20 or 21 is a better choice though. It seems like those routes and the North Shore is just underserved. What do you think?
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
[Anyway, I think buses like the Q4,Q12,Q36,Q43,Q46, etc. should be extended to Nassau to run with or trim down LI bus routes that run with NYCT routes.]
That concept makes sense, for both Queens and the Bronx. It's silly for a route to end at a particular location just because the city happens to end there - people's travel patterns don't work that way.
For specifics, I'd like to see the following extensions/combos:
Q4: further east on Linden
Q12: to Great Neck LIRR (N20/21 could then bypass G.N.)
Q30: to North Shore University Hospital
Q46: to Lake Success Industrial Quadrangle
Q79: through Floral Park and combined with N1 or N2.
Bx7 or Bx10: into Yonkers (replacing part of Bee-Line #8)
Bx9: to Yonkers railroad station or Tudor Woods (perhaps combine with Bee-Line #2)
Bx16: to Mount Vernon railroad station (replacing part of Bee-Line #54)
Bx31: to Cross-County Shopping Center (replacing Bee-Line #26)
Bx41: split into two routes, with northern part combined with Bee-Line #42
Okay, now it's time to wake up from these pipe-dreams.
For specifics, I'd like to see the following extensions/combos:
Q46: to Lake Success Industrial Quadrangle
Q79: through Floral Park and combined with N1 or N2.
There is no justification to alight the 400 indivuduals that utilize the Q-46 LIJ bus who work at the Long Island Jewish Hospital Medical Center Complex (including 444 Lakeville, 400/410/420 Lakeville & Parker Geriatric) at Union Turnpike and Lakeville Road simply to have a bus "enter" Nassau County. The ridership (or possible subsequent ridership) to Lake Success Qued or the Lake Success shopping mall doesn't warrant (or deserve) a reformed service at the expense of those travelling into the hospital grounds. Any move to adjust the route across Lakeville Road would only serve to increase the travel distance of those travelling to the hospital, and displace them further away from their destinations than even before the bus travelled into the actual hospital grounds. This is a dead proposal.
As far as the Q-79 is concerned, the Incorporated Village of Floral Park has denounced and openly fought against any move to link this bus (and the Q-36) to the LIRR station. This agrument, while valid, is opposed not by the TA/MTA, but by the village residents themselves (NIMBYS). They do not wish to have the "city element" so accessible to their backyards.
[There is no justification to alight the 400 indivuduals that utilize the Q-46 LIJ bus who work at the Long Island Jewish Hospital Medical Center Complex (including 444 Lakeville, 400/410/420 Lakeville & Parker Geriatric) at Union Turnpike and Lakeville Road simply to have a bus "enter" Nassau County.]
Umm... Okay, so I didn't make myself clear. I meant that the current LIJ trips (which ALREADY enter Nassau County - HELLO!!) would then continue beyond LIJ via Lakeville Road and Marcus Avenue to the Quad.
- - - - -
[As far as the Q-79 is concerned, the Incorporated Village of Floral Park has denounced and openly fought against any move to link this bus (and the Q-36) to the LIRR station.]
I am well aware of the Village's concerns. I'm also aware that some of the "city folk" along Little Neck Parkway are wealthier than the "villagers" are, so their sentiments can't be completely racist/classist in nature. Village officials also claimed that bus operators (passing through every 30 minutes) would target their children, while thinking nothing about large trucks roaring down Tulip Avenue every minute or so. Bottom line: they opposed the bus extension just to oppose it.
Screw the NIMBY's, let them just extend the buses w/o village consent and arrest anybody trying to physically disrupt bus service. Problem solved.
Ah, such a brilliant, educated solution to this problem. I just can't understand why a certain individual poster in this group hasn't been appointed Director of Public Transportation for Nassau County; he appears to have all the answers to solve every transportation problem. And, since this individual lives in Sea Cliff, next to Glen Cove, in which the Nassau County Executive resides, I'm sure he has great political pull for this potential appointment. Perhaps also Nassau County should also erect a new bus garage in Sea Cliff, on a location that will use the land of one of this group's notorious posters.
Good idea! I'd love to have a bus depot right in town!
And I'd love to have a job with Nassau dept of public transportation!
Unfortunately, NIMBY's block commercial development, and you have to have college degress to get good jobs like transport planners.
Umm... Okay, so I didn't make myself clear. I meant that the current LIJ trips (which ALREADY enter Nassau County - HELLO!!) would then continue beyond LIJ via Lakeville Road and Marcus Avenue to the Quad.
I'm beginning to question your familiarity with the ridership of the Q-46. As an operator of this line for the better part of the last 9 years, I can factually state that the ridership needs of those travelling to the city/county line does not warrant an extension into or around this complex at the expense of the reliability of it, or to inconvenience the masses who use the bus to/from LIJ which is a terminal, as opposed to a "stop" as you indicate above (however you weren't clear whether you wish to utilize the existing routing inside the complex, or have the bus stop outside the complex, as does the N-25 and N-26).
Personally, I'd like nothing better than to terminate elsewhere. But I don't think you're likely to see any changes here for the forseeable future.
If anything, the Glen Oaks branch should serve North Shore Towers via 260th Street, Little Neck Parkway, Grand Central Parkway, to NST. There are more displaced riders travelling to NST than LSQ.
Extending the Q4 into Elmont to terminate at either Elmont Rd or the beginning of Central Ave has been on the drawing boards for awhile now. The only hangup was where the bus should make it's turn around. Probably the NIMBY'S don't want a city bus running near their house for the terminus. I haven't heard anything lately on where the proposal stands, so please don't ask me on when this may actually come into effect.
BIG AL
[Probably the NIMBY'S don't want a city bus running near their house for the terminus.]
Except that it's NOT a "city" bus, but a STATE bus on a city route. Both NYC Transit and Long Island Bus (as components of MTA) are STATE agencies, and the NIMBYs are fully aware of that. Any "confusion" they may pretend to have should be removed with the use of the "MTA Bus" name.
What's the problem?? They are MTA agencies so they should just go on and do what they need to do. Sometimes these people are full of crap when something that could be useful has to be shot down because they don't like it. I'm usually a people's person but this NIMBY would be going overboard.
It may be officially designated a STATE bus by your terms, however it is a bus that officially runs in the CITY OF NEW YORK (thus the name New York City Transit) and as mentioned in a previous post, the snobs that live in Elmont are not going to want a bus coming in from New York City capable of bringing in that so-called "city-element". You are only fooling yourself if you think they will view it otherwise with the new name "MTA Bus". As long as they know the bus originates and serves mainly the City of New York, they are not going to want it anywhere near their own backyards.
BIG AL
I can't take this NIMBY crap anymore! If the two agencies combine & the bus heads there, so be it. There's a time where the MTA got to be aggressive to keep from possibly going bankrupt. Well, Nassau does need the "NYCT influence" or they're still going to have shoddy service, particularly the N20/21. So they dont want "urban buses" on their streets well as I said before if they are combined, TOUGH!
[As long as they know the bus originates and serves mainly the City of New York, they are not going to want it anywhere near their own backyards.]
First: As MTA agencies, both NYCT and LIB have the authority to operate on ANY street ANYWHERE in the MTA District that can physically accommodate a bus. (Of course, that will apply to the future "MTA Bus" as well.) Where were the NIMBYs when the MTA's enabling legislation was written?
Second: What's to stop "us" from riding a bus to the border and WALKING to "their" back yards?
Third: They can't have it both ways - forcing "us" city residents to stay on "our" side of the border while they get to cross the border at will. As long as Nassau County insists on being subsidized by NYC, they'll have to accept our residents, too. (Besides, I might want to visit some of my tax dollars!)
Ok, if it comes down to extending NYCT routes out of New York City and/or combining NYCT and LI Bus routes, this is what I would do.
NOTE: This is for NYCT buses that touch the city/Nassau border. [I may do buses that are close to the border and if Queens privates were taken over by the MTA in another post]. Unfortunately, I misplaced my LI bus map so some extensions that I propose may be "unknown":
*=Not sure on new destination yet
Q2: Extend it to Hempstead via the N6 on Hempstead Tpke and N6's would become limited stop buses
Q4: I'd follow your plan on that
Q12: Extend it to Great Neck & make it a limited stop bus 7 days a week via the N20/21(would be locals) route and extend 20/21 service further east but improve 20/21 service FIRST!
Q30: Extend it further east*
Q36: Extend it east to the LIRR Mineola station
Q43: Extend it further east*
Q46: I'd follow your plan on that
Q79: Same as the Q36
X68: Extend it to Hempstead, POSSIBLY Hicksville.
BTW, I hope they finally give the Nassau map a new format so people could ACTUALLY understand it
This is a continuation on the subject of an assumption that IF the MTA NYCT were to take over LI Bus. Now I'm going to do buses in the Bronx that touch the Westchester border that would be combined and/or supplement current Bee Line routes. Its real funny but I misplaced my Bee Line map also (LOL) so I may be unsure of some new destinations north of the Bronx.
NOTE: This is for buses that touch the Bronx/Westchester border. Buses that are near the border I may do in another post.
*=not sure of the new destination
Bx7: Extend it to Yonkers
Bx9: Same as Bx7
Bx10: Same as Bx7
Bx16: Extend it east to New Rochelle(The Ropes Av branch). Let all buses go through the Mundy Lane branch rather than leaving it a separate branch
Bx31: Extend it northeast to Mount Vernon
Bx34: Extend it to White Plains
Bx41: Extend it north*
For buses with an asterisk, I'll get back to you on that.
Comments. Criticsm. Compliments. Holla back.
REMEMBER: None of this is guaranteed to happen and this is what I think would/should happen should a takeover occur. I'm referring to my 2 posts on bus extensions of Queens routes with LI bus and Bronx routes with Bee Line routes out of the city.
Some of the routes may be too long, like the X68. Nassau should have express bus service though. Right now, there aren't many alternatives to LIRR. I believe even Westchester has express buses into NYC. Why not Nassau?
Yeah, Westchester got the BxM4c I forgot where it goes exactly in Westchester though, thats a pretty long bus route though. Now that QV has MCI's for the X68, they could handle the mileage. If it looks too long I wouldn't extend it too far into Nassau or leave it the way it is.
Create a new Manhattan to Nassau express bus route. Agree/disagree?
Comments. Criticsm. Compliments. Holla back.
the BXM4C runs between White Plains and Midtown Manhattan for $5.
The Q2 extension looks good.
Q12 extention is excellent in my view.
I'll have to look at the Queens Bus Map before I can determine if an extention is possible with the Q30 and Q43.
Extending the Q36 and Q79 to Mineola is not a good idea.It would be too long,at least an additional 25mins added to the current travel time and we know how bad service is on the B82 because of its long routing.
And there's no need to extend the X68 all the way to Hempstead let alone Hicksville.that's WAYYYYY to far and it already takes an hour from Midtown to Queens so there's no need for it.
Ok, on the X68 I got a little carried away but the Q36 is a wild card, in my opinion. I believe the Q79 would be a better route to extend than the 36 and 79's dont run on Sundays so I think it would make sense or scale back the proposed terminal west of Mineola but would still terminate the bus in Nassau & keep it at current headways unless it becomes popular that it would justify a increase.
This is a question that I have been asking myelf for awhile since the metrocards were accepted on LI Busses to eliminate the two - zone fare. The current bus routes in Queeens shows that if it was to go past the Nassau border it will be a positive benifit for LI customers. Another thing again it is the horrible headaways on a lot of their routes. Can someone give me a brief history about the LI Bus when it was taking over by the MTA and why it is the way it is? And why didn't the MTA take over Suffolk Transit?
Let me try to address some of the items in this segment. Please forgive me if I don't address it all:
1. With the new technology of "clean diesel", it seems just as good, if not better, than CNG emissions, without the additional cost of the heavy preventitive maintenance schedule - and associated cost.
2. The Bronx-to-Westchester route proposal is good but not enough. Currently these Westchester routes that start in the Bronx and proceed as far as White Plains and Valhalla, and these routes are quite heavy in ridership (five to ten minute frequency). An analysis would have to be done so as not to have the "terminal" of transfering move up to Westchester.
3. The LI Bus ridership problem of ridership overloads on weekends should never be. On weekends, there are be plenty of buses idle and available for additional service. And the work assignment "pick" for the drivers can always be changed. But, alas, who are the ones who have the final say on schedule changes/adjustments? And are the personnel that are responsible for montioring the routes and bringing problems to the proper people (and fixing the problems) being done or being ignored? Any bus operation MUST adhere to the ridership demand either to cut or add service. Such monitoring must be done regularly. My staff did weekday observations one a month and weekend observations once each quarter, and always in good weather with no traffic deviations (parades, street fairs, etc.) This is currently one of Westchester's greatest assets.
4. Hard to understand why a good bus is being retired/scrapped just because it has reached its service requirement of 12 years. Some of the Queens and Bronx private operators, that receive subisdy from NYCDOT, have 1985 and 1988 buses still in service. Something's not right when these old buses have to keep operating in-service while decent 1990's are retired/scrapped.
5. Another reason why the Westchester network would not become MTA controlled soon; When LI Bus, then called MSBA, was taken over, the expenses were increased three-fold (or more). Westchester and LI Bus are similar fleets in size. Take a look at the shape of the two fleets today. Westchester's 120 Flixibles (1990's) are still going strong (the A/C's will freeze you out in the summer). Here I'm reading that LI Bus's 1990'S are being retired/scrapped. Then take a look at the two budgets. Then take a look at the response time to a scheduling problem or other operational problem. Then tell me if Westchester should become MTA controlled. Even some politicians and residents are saying, "Leave well enough alone, just change over to the MetroCard system".
"3. The LI Bus ridership problem of ridership overloads on weekends should never be."
Yeah, we got overloaded on the 3:02pm N20 HICKSVILLE, which had a line three-bus lengths down Roosevelt avenue.
The bus left Queens as a sardine can.
They haven't increased N20/21 service during weekends at all, the schedule remains the same. Well at least the bus didn't run too late, only arriving at Greenvale 13 minutes behind schedule.
The N20/21 actually is better on weekdays, when there are short runs between Roslyn or Great Neck, and Flushing.
Where do most N20/N21 subway riders get off in Nassau County?
Great Neck
Drove by the LI Bus facility in Mitchell Field today. Without stopping, I noticed a good number of the diesel 600's parked there and it looks as though all the rear wrap ads are gone.
Follow this link to a story in today's Philadelphia Inquirer Magazine about three transit buffs who keep SEPTA on it's toes...true transit "superheroes" for the average joe commuter. Good job Guys!
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/special_packages/inquirer_magazine/4254793.htm
So CTRabs is now a hometown celebrity! Congrats!
Just heard about this the other day; apparently they have 12 older coaches on display. Does anyone know about this, and if so, do they have a New York World's Fair GM Fishbowl on display? Whatever happened to these unique coaches?
-Fred
With the formation of MTA Bus, merging LI Bus with NYCT, what will happen to LI Bus's separate identity? Will buses be renumbered to fit the NYC Bus scheme? Will the colors of the buses change? Will some bus routes between Queens and Nassau merge, blend in, or change in some way?
Hmmm---I never thought about that. This may be more interesting than I thought.
This question may answer many of our post so far... good question???
I never thaught about that...
It's way too early to speculate about any of this. There are a multitude of issues to resolve - equipment, routes, schedules, union agreements, etc. A key issue is ownership - remember that NY City owns the NYC Transit fleet, while Nassau owns the LI Bus fleet. And if the Queens privates come into the MTA family thats another variable in an already crowded field.
Fleet renumberings and color schemes are really inconsequential. Its unlikely, IMHO, that you'll see much route merging between LI Bus and NYC Transit Queens Bus Division - superlong routes become a reliability nightmare.
Will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.
I agree with the color scheme being rather inconsequential. I mean, really, who cares about repainting buses? Now renumbering of the LIB fleet will have to be done, since the numbers of LIB fleet of Orion V's basically mirrors that of the NYCT Orions. However, there are not many three-digit numbers remaining (318-399, 681-799) so using open numbers 1110-14?? for a CNG Orion renumbering may be possible.
Mark
I just wish they'd make N20/21 out of the Stengal depot. That way the buses can go right into service at Flushing. Currently, buses coming out of Mitchell travel to Hicksville or Glen Cove and go in service.
Many buses come into Glen Cove late, as the trip up from Mitchell is a long one, and Glen Cove road often has many backups.
yeah so deadhead all the AM trips from Flushing to Hicksville and Glen Cove instead - ingenious.
Renumbering is going to be much easier by simply adding a digit to the front of the LIB units. MTA would be much better served by simply finding a "thousand number" series that could accomodate the LIB fleet. They could easily retire the 7xxx rehabbed RTSes and use 7000s for the LIB fleet.
I think you're jumping ahead of things. Firstly, there will probably be no visible change, at least for the immediate future. The last visible change, and possibly only visible change, is the replacement sticker affixed to the side of each bus, which read, "New York City Transit Authority" and now reads, "MTA New York City Bus".
That's about the extent of the asthetics.
As far as renumbering and such, I highly doubt there will be any such changes. They're still MTA Long Island Bus and we're still MTA NYCT, for all intents and purposes. Our respective unions have contracts with those "agencies", and not the new "companies-de-jour".
The timing of this "Historic" consolidation announcement comes curiously suspicious during the contract negotion process between the unions and the MTA. It may serve as a distractor, at best, for the time being.
Remember, no "regional bus" implementation may take place without the full support of the unions involved. Our respective unions are not interested in "restructuring" anything, other than the disciplinary procedures in place at Fort NYCT.
No matter what they call themselves.
Andy, "Jimmy" is standing behind me & says Hi !
Mr rt
Are you the Andy that was at QSC and now at NYC Bus in schedules?
Being that all this talk is going around, Suffolk Transit may get into the mix if they don't straighten up their act. MTA is set to pick up the contracts as soon as the current one expires I believe sometime in 2005 or 2007. We are in bad shape out here. We could use the help from a big agency to over see operations out this way. I'm hoping for this while I'm still working for Suffolk Transit. I know I touched on this before with the "MTA Suffolk Bus" post a few months back. I feel that a move like this could beneifit us as employees and at most the customers. I get complaints about this all the time.
D.
Just out of curiosity, you might answer my question from a previous post, why it is taking it so long for MTA to takeover Suffolk and transit and why doesn't Suffulk transit use metrocards?
The reason why is that we are under contract with private motor carriers out here. I guess it's been this way for years and many of these companies including Suffolk Transportation Service (Pupil Transporter) refuses to give up the routes up at the end of the last contract which I think was back in the mid 90's.
All of customers ask me that question about why we don't use metro card. This transit system wanted to be seperate from the MTA all together. When the metro card was implemted in 1994 Suffolk didn't follow suit. But you know what? Suffolk Transit excepts metrocard transfers from LI Buses in Babaylon and Huntington. Go figure. We are suppose to get new fareboxes from GFI I don't know whether or not they will be able to support metrocard. I hope that I was able to answer your question on that.
D.
Thanks. It does clear things up..
I'm glad that I could help
D.
Good question(s).
Question #1 I'm not sure myself.
Question #2 There would have to be a renumbering of the fleet unless it keeps its identity.
Question #3 I hope it doesn't, its a attractive color scheme, but it probably will
Question #4 That seems likely
REMEMBER: None of this is definite and nothing is final so far
>>> With the formation of MTA Bus, merging LI Bus with NYCT, what will happen to LI Bus's separate identity? Will buses be renumbered to fit the NYC Bus scheme? Will the colors of the buses change? Will some bus routes between Queens and Nassau merge, blend in, or change in some way? <<<
Probably the answer to all your questions is "yes," but the changes will be implemented over an extended period of time, possibly several years.
Tom
Hey, at least we get a Nassau County Bus Map, I like that factor.
Where do you get it at?
I meant it as when we get the L.I. bus becomes apart of MTA Bus, then they'll come out with a Nassau County Bus Map, there isn't 1 in existance, yet. At least to my knowledge.
There is a Nassau Map but I've seen it at the Hempstead Station but they never have any available, I thaught you know where to find one. Thanks though...
You could write a letter to them asking for one or call them & you give them your address.
phone # 516 228 4000
address MTA LI Bus 700 Commercial Av Garden City, NY 10530. If the address was changed or I am incorrect please tell me any corrections(this is for all bustalkers who read this. Thanx.
Assuming NYCT & LI Bus gets combined, I really hope Nassau gets a map in the same forma as the 5 boroughs.
Hope this helps.
There are some abandoned RTSs in NYct livery in aceduct racetrack one of the numbers was 1459 or 1452? What hapened to them?
I don't think they are abandoned buses but rather are owned by Jet-Away Transportation that supplies service to the NYRA at both Belmont and Aqueduct Racetracks. They shuttle visitors from the parking lots to the grandstand when horse racing is presented at the track.
IIRC the number is 1459.
Does anyone know if ex PANY bus 52 (the RTS Slopeback) is still in service at Belmont ?
I've been looking for the slopeback all Summer but haven't seen it once. All I've seen are the Grumman Flxibles from Jetaway at Belmont. I haven't seen any of the ex-NYCT RTS's either. I suspect and hope they are probably at Jetaway's garage or over at Aqueduct. I doubt Jetaway would get rid of the slopeback being they recently painted it.
I can see why the ex-NYCT buses look abandonded. Most of them are in horrible condition. Perhaps somebody can go over to Jetaway's garage and ask them what happened to the slopeback and other ex-NYCT buses.
BIG AL
Well, it's good to hear that some Grummans are still in service. Where can I find pics of these beauties?
-F.
And while they're at it, also find out what happened to the 1971 Flxibles from Jamaica bus. Last one I saw was bus #216 out in Canarsie.
I have a feeling those 1971 Flxibles are as flat as a pancake right about now. I have never seen newlooks operating from Jetaway so I would imagine they are long gone. Probably replaced by the ex-NYCT RTS's.
BIG AL
Today, I went into Queens as usual for my haircut and here are the observations I made…again, I'm giving the numbers and the route ONLY! Some shocking info as well! It was a smooth ride into the city as there was no traffic due to the holiday and no school kids…YES! So, here are the observations:
Queens Surface Corporation:
#501 - QM1A
#485 - QM1A
#540 - QM1A
#523 - QM1A (actually, it was Not In Service BUT it was on Horace Harding Expwy and Peck Av going eastbound near Francis Lewis Blvd)
MTA LI Bus:
#292 - N24
#362 - N22
#160 - N6 LTD
#158 - N6
#656 - N22 (no ad on the back)
#155 - N6
#177 - N6
#172 - N6
#173 - N6
#626 - N22 (no ad on the back)
#615 - N24 (MSBA scheme and no ad on the back)
#204 - N22A
#376 - N24
#159 - N6
%2
It seems the ads have been removed from the LI Bus Orion V diesels. Unfortunately that may be a sign, those buses may be taken out of revenue service soon. Probably when the next Orion V CNG batch comes in.
Do you know that for a fact?
As usual, Qtraindash7 has come up with another unfounded gem. Has it ever occurred to him that perhaps the ad contract has been fulfilled and the ads were removed at the expiration of this contract?
Interesting day. I'm not quite so sure what was so shocking. I guess you figured that the 1992 Orions having their rear wraps removed is a big story. All I can say its about time! I was getting sick of seeing that damn "YHD Foxtons" ad. I happened to see 606 on the N24 with no ad. Looks like the lenghty advertising contract that YHD had has finally expired.
Mark
Mark,
I posted this twice. The one post you picked got cut off. Find my second post right above the one you responded too. The shocking part was Orion #104 on 89th Av. A spot where mainly JAM and QV buses layover. Reread my other post and you will see what I mean.
Today, I went into Queens as usual for my haircut and here are the observations I made…again, I'm giving the numbers and the route ONLY! Some shocking info as well! It was a smooth ride into the city as there was no traffic due to the holiday and no school kids…YES! So, here are the observations:
Queens Surface Corporation:
#501 - QM1A
#485 - QM1A
#540 - QM1A
#523 - QM1A (actually, it was Not In Service BUT it was on Horace Harding Expwy and Peck Av going eastbound near Francis Lewis Blvd)
MTA LI Bus:
#292 - N24
#362 - N22
#160 - N6 LTD
#158 - N6
#656 - N22 (no ad on the back)
#155 - N6
#177 - N6
#172 - N6
#173 - N6
#626 - N22 (no ad on the back)
#615 - N24 (MSBA scheme and no ad on the back)
#204 - N22A
#376 - N24
#159 - N6
#271 - N27 (Glen Cove Rd crossing over the LIE - I was going home…EASTBOUND)
Finally…MTA New York City Transit:
#536 - Q27
*********************************************************************
I saw an MCI bus (more likely from Queens Village) going southbound on the Clearview Expwy as I was on 73rd Av. I did not get the number.
*********************************************************************
#645 - Q76
#9260 - Q88
#9541 - Q17
#8396 - Q2 (repowered)
#4587 - Q17
#518 - Q43
*********************************************************************
I saw another MCI bus on the X68 but it was behind me and again I could get the number! However, my time will come!
*********************************************************************
#4922 - Q36
#550 - Q76
#9294 - Q75
#7010 - Not in Service
#104 - Not in Service***
***- "Q5Merrick" can back me up on this…usually when you see a bus or buses on 89th Av between 168th St and Merrick Blvd, which means that those buses or bus are on a layover or something similar to that. ORION bus #104 was parked behind bus #7010. Usually that's a spot for Queens Village and Jamaica Depot buses but very rarely a Casey Stengel bus. If that were the case, then Casey Stengel buses would be on Merrick Blvd between 89th Av and 88th Av. I think that bus #104 (even though I saw a CS patch on the upper right hand corner) is a Queens Village bus. So, QV has buses #104-108 (bus #105 I did not see but QV does have #106-108)
#9287 - Q1
#9267 - Q3
#4918 - Q1
#638 - Q76
#9254 - Q75
#9562 - Q77
#7006 - Q2
#4571 - Q77
#452 - Q76
#9053 - Q17
#628 - Q1
#4933 - Q36
#7010 - Q30 (YES…again)
#9261 - Q31 (The back left windows on the driver's side need to be changed. Let's just say that vandals had there way with the windows…name tags if you know what I mean.)
#4911 - Q43
#5157 - Q17
#5164 - Q3
#9381 - Q2
#9257 - Q1
#4909 - Q43
#2886 - X68 (YES! I told you that my time would come!)
#8959 - Q3
#9286 - Q1
#8372 - Q2 (repowered)
#4325 -??? (I thought that bus was retired? Apparently not!)
#4331 - Q88
#5155 - Q17 (repainted)
#8356 - Q30 (repowered)
#8362 - Q30 (repowered)
It's funny when you are on Edgerton Blvd (178th St) and Hillside Av, you can see an Orion bus going back towards QV depot on Jamaica Av. Usually, you see and Orion on Jamaica Av as the Q44 or the Q20A and/or Q20B or even the Q27.
Well, I hoped you guys enjoyed my observations! Oh, Suffolk Transit:
#9604 - S92
Enjoy!
Just saw 4351 on the M2. Some 4300s have not been retired as of yet.
4325-is still going strong at QV. 4327 is at HUD.
4354 on the other hand went to MHV and is now on the scrap line.
Get used to seeing those coaches on the local lines. They will very rarely use those on any Express Line ever again since they now have MCI's.
104 was probably on the Q76. They'll usually park there on their lunch breaks. 7010 was PROBABLY on a lunch break from the Q30 since some buses end at Merrick Blvd.
#4308 M2
Thanks for the info!
Okay, I'm assuming that the following is in each depot:
Rockville Centre Bus Depot:
1995 Orion 05.501 CNG: 100-130
1996 Orion 05.501 CNG: 131-199, 215, 270
2000 Orion 05.501 CNG: 320-352
Mitchell Field Bus Depot:
1988 Gillig Phantom: 500-519 (Stored)
1990 Orion 05.501: 579, 584, 587
1991 Orion 05.501: 600-656 (Bus #656 is a diesel bus, right? I did not get a GOOD look when it was at the Jamaica Bus Terminal.)
1991 Orion 05.501 CNG: 657-667
1996: Orion 05.501 CNG: 200-214, 216-245, 271-287
2000: Orion 05.501 CNG: 288-299, 353-394
I know which routes come from which depot. I'm just trying to figure out which buses come from which depot. Thanks in advance!
Rockville Centre Depot-routes:
N1,N2,N3,N4,N14,N15,N16,N17,N19,N25,N31/N32,N33,N36,N37,N62.
Mitchell Field:
N6,N15,N20/N21,N22/N22A,N23,N24,N26,N27,N28,N35,N40/N41,N45,N46/N47,
N48,N49,N50,N51,N54/N55,N57/N58,N70/N71,N72,N73/N74,N78/N79,N80/N81,
N91,N94,N95.
on weekends,ALL ROUTES come from Mitchell Field.
Is this accurate?
Well, I was kind of asking for the BUSES themselves. Which BUSES are in the depots. I already know which routes are in each depot. Thanks anyway.
OK the 100s above 130 are at Mitchell Field. I'm pretty sure about that as I rode 160 just the other day on the N27 (a Mitchell route).
Mitchell has alot of the 300s, I think RVC may have some 300s and ALL the high 200 2000 Orions.
I haven't seen the 1991 Orion CNG's (657-666) at Mitchell in quite some time. Some have been scrapped, the remaining ones are at RVC.
Good shot, but here is the LIB Roster:
ROCKVILLE CTR
1991 Orion V: 657-666. (10)
1995 Orion V: 100-130. (31)
1996 Orion V: 225-245. (21)
2000 Orion V: 288-301, 335-347. (27)
MITCHEL FIELD
1990 Orion V: 578-579, 587 (3--repowered)
1991 Orion V: 600-656. (51)
1995 Orion V: 131-224. (94)
1996 Orion V: 271-287. (17)
2000 Orion V: 302-334, 348-359. (45)
2002 Orion V: 360-394. (35)
The assignment of the 2000 Orions changes like the weather. This is my best guestimate. The other models are accurate to the best of my knowledge.
Mark
While I can't give you the roster by depot tonight, you're in error on the roster itself. I posted this correct roster about a week ago and am repeating it here. I'll get the roster by depot shortly.
1990 Orion Diesels (first order): 579-599 (currently most are in the reserve fleet with a few seeing service when needed). Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable.
1991 Orion Diesels (second order): 600-656. Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Most in daily service Monday to Saturday; CNGs used exclusively on Sunday.
1991 Orion (first CNG order): 657-666. 666 scrapped, unknown if any others are scrapped or inoperable.
1993 Orion (second CNG order): 100-129. Original number series 100-125. Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Four numbers missing (e.g., 106 and 118) and due to computer conflict with older buses still in service when these units arrived.
26 units total in order.
1996/1997 Orion (third CNG order): 130-245; also 270-287 Unknown if any are scrapped or inoperable. Arrival of these units caused retirement of all older (Fishbowl) units by early 1997; Flxible 434 and GMC Blitz ex-NYCTA 5549 were among the last to be retired.
Maintenance/service vehicles, assorted: 246-271. Ironically, two vehicles are numbered 271 - an Orion and a tow truck.
2000 Orion (fourth CNG order): 288-357.
2001 Orion (fifth CNG order): 358-395.
A few Gilligs also remain in the reserve fleet; numbers unknown.
Okay, Green Bus Lines! This has been getting to me. I saw bus #5519 and #1161 on the Q22 but they a go to a different depot…Arvenue Bus Depot. So, I'm assuming this.
Rockaway Blvd Bus Depot:
Routes: Q6, Q7, Q8, Q9, Q9A, Q10, Q10A, Q11, Q40, Q41, Q60, QM15, QM18 and QM23
1985-1987 GMC RTS-04 and/or 06: 222-270, 601-629
1993 TMC RTS-06: 1143-1159, 1170-1182
1999 Orion 05.501: 5501-5508, 5530-5550
Arvenue Bus Depot:
Routes: Q21, Q22, Q22A, Q35, QM16 and QM17
1985-1987 GMC RTS-04 and/or 06: 271-292, 630-659
1993 TMC RTS-06: 1160-1169
1999 Orion 05.501: 5509-5529
I hope that was the roster by depot. Please let me know what's up? IF the buses change everyday, then just give me a general idea. Thanks in advance!
I read a while back that Green was also running the Q8 and some Q41's out of Arverne, basically to "prove" to DOT that the depot was still viable. Any official word on this from Green or DOT?
Also, one morning a couple of weeks ago, I saw run #3501 on the QM18. What's up with that? Are some QM18's also running out of Arverne, or some Q35's out of the "mainland"?
Cool - BTW - Those Orion V's are '98s.
Wayne
Maybe a couple of buses broke down and they did a temporary swap like NYCT does all the time with putting temporary buses on a line that operate from another depot.
BIG AL
True, you are probably right, BIG AL! Thanks!
I do not think that Green Line assigns specicfic buses to each of its depots like the TA does. I think buses are assigned as needed. It can be in Rockaway Blvd for weeks and then assigned to the Rockaways and then can be back in Rockaway Blvd.
I presume that maintance of the equipment determines where the buses are assigned. I believe that only light maintance is done in the Rockaway garage only.
Also i believe that all express runs come from the main depot only.
Drivers also pick assignments and can switch depots every pick if they desire.
Thank You
Ok-heres one for all bus fans. Just a thought or so. Suppose you ran where buses got assigned to. If you had your choice which buses would go where. However, there are stipulations:
1-your depot cant go over what it has now-example, FP has assigned 247 buses, dont go over.
2-you cant go fantasy mode(dont add Grummans or Blitz).
3-your roster MUST entail whats out there.
Here are my picks-i choose Yukon and Ulmer Park:
Yukon:
Orion V-475-504. (these buses orignally from Castleton).
Orion V:6325-6349.
Ulmer Park:
4871-4899.(20).
7500-7534.(34).
8340-8350.(10).
9051-9110.(60).
9301-9340.(40).
as you can see, i only improved the local fleet. With UP, i moved #7500-#7510 from FLA to UP. Also, moved #9051-#9076 to UP, which in turn removes the 4700's. Let me know what you guys do.
FP now has 243 buses, this is a very low number for its fleet. It should be 255. Anyway if I couldn't add 12 more buses here's what it would look like.
Fresh Pond- 243 Buses
1987 RTS: 4880, 4881, 4884 (3)
1990 RTS: 8000-8017, 8130-8171 (60) -when JG gets OrionVII's give some 8400's/8500's to Flatbush.
1996 RTS: 9140-9249 (110!!) -if 126St. gets Artics, and when GH gets more Orions
1998 RTS: 9569-9618 (50) -when HP closes.
1999 RTS: 5055-5074 (20) - I don't care too much for the 99'RTS's too much since 20 is a joke, hell, send them to ENY with the 4900's/5000's/5200's and give FP the 8900's since I'm a 96'Nova fanboy.
Ok, I'll choose Ulmer Park local and hmmmmmmm........Flatbush
Ulmer Park:
4860-4899(??) Since some buses were scrapped
5075-5099(25)
7510-7534(25)
9061-9110(50)
9295-9341(46)
4700's and some 4800's would be retired/transferred ,leftover high 4800's would come from depots they are in now, 7510 and 5075-5099 would come from FB, 9061-9076 would come from JA and ENY.
Flatbush:
4654-4657(4)
7000(1)
7500-7509(10)
5100-5124(25)
8023-8032(10)
8130-8184(55)
8401-8460(60)
9381-9455(75)
Since the FB 1987 TMC's are still running good, they could last a few more years elsewhere. GM's would be retired or in storage(4116,4120,4300-4302,4400's).
Transfer 7510 & 5075-5099 to UP to make room for other buses. Buses that left FB for Fresh Pond would return and 8172-8184 would be transferred from 126 since they are scheduled to get artics.
Transfer 8018-8022,8045,8066,8073,8074,8088 and probably the '87 TMC'S in exchange for their 8100's.
8440,8442,8445,8446,8449-8460 would come/return to FB from 126 and JG
9381 would come from QV since its 1 bus and I would rather have straight fleet #'s in 1 depot. 9444-9455 would come from Gun Hill in anticipation of more artics coming there.
BTW, Ulmer Park has about 180 local buses and Flatbush about 260
Lets do Fresh Pond(about 245 buses):
4700-4752(about 50)
5025-5074(50)
8000-8024(25)
9111-9185(75)
9569-9618(50)
As you see, FP would be around 250 buses. 5025-5054 would come from 126 since they're scheduled to get artics, 8018-8024 would come from FB, 9111-9139 would come from KB in case more artics come and 9606-9618 would come from HP, scheduled to close in 2003. Would retire, transfer or put GM's and '87/'88 TMC's into storage.
Mmm, let me try East New York and Kingsbridge
East New York: 280 Buses
1987 RTS: 4629-4652 (24) -JG receives their OrionVII and gives back the 4643-4652.
1990 RTS: 8090-8097, 8099-8129 (39) - 8340-8350 returns to UP
1994 RTS: 8671-8703 (33) - JG receives their OrionVII and gives back the 8671-8689.
1996 RTS: 8899, 8920-8923, 8925, 8927-8929, 8931-8936, 8938, 9030-9052 (39)- 8900-8919 goes to FP, 126St. gets artics and gives ENY its 9000's. Remaining ENY's 9000's(9057 and up) go to UP
1999 RTS: 4945-5025, 5055-5074, 5205-5249(145)- Gets FP's 5000's
Kingsbridge: 315 Buses
1987 RTS: 4663-4674, 4676-4684, 4693-4741, 4743-4752 (80) -Hah, hah, hah!
1996 RTS: 8807-8856 (50) - 9111-9130 goes to MV.
1998 RTS: 9655-9699 (45)
1998 D60HF: 1072-1109 (38)
1999 D60HF: 5404-5505 (102)
What do you think?
im also adding Jackie Gleason:
581-610 Orion V CNG
801-989 New Flyer
7560-7649 Orion VII
The current RTS roster would be moved to possibly FP.
This weekend I was in Boston for a wedding. It's always fun to visit Boston although it's been about 8 years since the last time I was there. I saw many RTS (of course) and I saw one deadheading on N/B I-93 moving aong at about 60 MPH. I can't remember the number, but it was an older bus with a DD 6V92 engine. I also saw a New Flyer D40LF #6012 with a bright orange destination sign. Is something special about this bus or is MBTA taking on a new color scheme. I also noticed the Green Line's light rail cars are now Green/Silver.
It was a good trip, and this time I parked in Satellite parking at BWI - and got to ride their wonderful (just kidding) Gillig Phantoms from the lot to the terminal. The only thing I like about them is that they have DD 6V92 engines, but they didn't sound too good.
Wayne
Wayne
6012 is for the Silver Line. I believe it runs on CNG as opposed to diesel.
I rarely use BWI but I rode of those Gilligs in February and it didn't sound too great.
The combination of night, rain, heavy traffic, endless construction and my not being very familiar with Boston's streets prevented me from taking a closer look at the bus, but I don't recall seeing the CNG tanks on top. The last time I had been in Boston - I remember seeing the last of MBTA's GMDD T6H-5307N. Of course this time... other than the New Flyer... it was all RTS. Since I flew into PVD... earlier today when I was returning my rental I saw a couple or Orion V's in Providence.
Wayne
#6012 is a New Flyer C40LF, one of 17 based at Charlestown garage (#6000-6016) for operation on the Silver Line 'Bus Rapid Transit' route. The C40's have a special paint scheme (actually a wrap job) and only operate on this route. They definitely have the CNG tanks on the roof.
A few years back, the MBTA bought the first two C40's (#6000-6001) and two Orion VI diesel-electric hybrid buses (#5000-5001) to test out the technology. The buses operated on various routes across the system, and featured special paint schemes (the New Flyers were blue, yellow and white, the Orion's are red, yellow and white). CNG 'won', and in addition to the 17 C40's the MBTA now has 299 NABI CNG low-floor buses on order. #6000-6001 are now part of the Silver Line fleet. The Orions are still on the property, but rarely see service these days.
The Silver Line is the former route 49, and operates from the Dudley Square bus transfer terminal to Downtown Boston via Washington Street. It is BRT because the route is the court-mandated replacement for the old Orange Line elevated (which ended in 1987!). The line has 'stations', and outside of downtown the buses get priority at traffic signals. If you exit the subway at Boylston or N.E. Medical Center, you can get a free transfer to the Silver Line. The line has been very controversial because the local community was pushing for light rail, not a glorified bus route.
Jim D.
Saw a quick preview for this film the other night; it is a new Eminem movie due out in November and will feature some buses. I heard a line where he claims he is "enterprising", and someone says "Naw, man...you're just riding the bus". What a great sound bite that would be!
Judging from that dialogue, there is bound to be an interior shot and/or a great close-up of a bus. In one scene, I saw what looked like a Flxible Metro zooming by on a busy street in the back of an alley. BusTalkers, check it out and let me know what's up.
Happy "Enterprising"!
-Fred
I'm probably going to see Eminem's movie to first week it comes out. I even have his album "The Eminem Show". Normally I don't reveal my interests outside of transit topics, but just felt like saying it.
When I see it at the new Jamaica Center theater(Ridgewood theater is crap, people smoke cigarettes in there), I will post about the buses you described.
Thanks; I look forward to your report. Also, I don't blame you; smoking is a nasty habit, and I am so glad I gave it up. I can't see why I even started in the first place!
There is nothing wrong with listing outside interests, IMO; I have done it in the past. Every now and then, one will be shared by a fellow BusTalker (i.e. Dodge Darts, Pepsi Blue, Dirty Vegas) but others just get no response, so I know then that it is not a good subject. Otherwise, I just carry on as usual.
I like Eminem's stuff as well; I look forward to the new movie. It should be interesting to see how he emerges as an actor after being so familiar to his usual medium. For example, look at Will Smith; what a difference, especially in serious roles!
-Fred
If Eminem is as die-hard as he claims about filming on-location in Detroit, then that bus is an RTS. I have seen a trailer for it too, and the scenery is distinctly Detroit. I know there was hype about "8 Mile" being filmed here, so it sounds like the transit footage will actually be authentic. In Detroit, authentic transit scenery equals RTS. (I'd be really impressed to see a New Flyer or a Classic, though.)
Come to think of it, that may very well have been an RTS. I recall that it was some form of ADB so it might have been one, especially if the setting is in Detroit. "8 Mile" may be derived from 8 Mile Road, one of Michigan's many "Mile Roads". Wonder if they actually equal the distance that they are named?
I'm willing to bet they use a new RTS for the interior shots, unless they want to go for a "rough" look. I rode their 2002 models (the 3800 series) this past summer and was impressed with the ride and smooth sounds; if only they would can those ugly black steel wheels.
And yes, a Flyer or a Classic would make for some variety, but odds are that Hollywood may lean towards their new Gilligs, but you never know. After all, they don't care about make, just that they have a Detroit bus to fill the quota.
-F.
"8 Mile" may be derived from 8 Mile Road...
You can bet on that. Eight Mile Road is the physical and psychological barrier between Detroit and suburbs to the north. The road has gained quite a bit of notoriety around here and elsewhere. Like much of what's notorious in Detroit, Eight Mile's reputation is far worse than its reality.
Wonder if they actually equal the distance that they are named?
The number in a mile road signifies its distance from one starting point. In Detroit, the mile roads are counted increasing to the north, with Mile Zero essentially being Michigan Avenue (US-12) in downtown Detroit (note that Michigan Avenue slants to the SW a few miles west of downtown). Eight Mile Road is exactly eight miles north of Michigan Avenue.
I'm willing to bet they use a new RTS for the interior shots, unless they want to go for a "rough" look.
All of DDOT's RTSs are NovaBUS models 1995 or newer. They - along with most other DDOT buses - are all reasonably clean on the inside.
...but odds are that Hollywood may lean towards their new Gilligs...
The Gilligs are are SMART, the suburban system, not DDOT.
...just that they have a Detroit bus to fill the quota.
That's not of too much concern. Most of the people in Southeast Michigan don't even know what a Detroit bus looks like.
Ah. Very good points. Yes, I must say every DDOT bus I rode was clean, including the 3700s. What vintage were they, around 1999 or so?
Also, the DDOT drivers were very courteous and helpful. I was VERY impressed, especially after the Greyhound fiasco there.
-F.
I just heard over the wire last week that the County will be purchasing new buses. I was in the office talking to the Manager at Suffolk and happen to glance at a fax (by accident) only to discover a purchase order for new fareboxes made by General Fare industries. So I put two and two together. All I know my bus yard is suppose to get five of them. I don't know what type we are getting but I'm banking on more Orions. Any more info I get on bus type and or numbers, I'll share with the group.
D.
Hey, that's major news! It's about time that Suffolk Transit got some more buses!
Is this order to accomodate possible expansion of the route system or is it to replace older buses ?
Rode on a Gillig about 18 months ago and it was a piece of junk. The tranny was shifting hard. The driver also starting braking well ahead of what would be considered normal because he didn't trust the brakes if he had to stop short.
I really don't know the facts on that one but bus replacement would seem to be the more of a reason than a route expansion. But I'd go with bus replacement. Many of the Gilligs at my company have a number of problems too (too much to list). "No Charge lamps", constant overheating, check engine, you know all the whammies that come with the territory.
When they arrive or sight one on the road I'll keep everyone interested posted.
PLEASE tell me they are not getting rid of any Flxibles to make room for new buses. Please, oh please?
-F.
I love the Flxibles too but there is no word on scraping the Flxible. In fact, the Flxible is used as spares when regular buses are down; which is constant. They might stick around for awhile. I'll let you know if anything on the Flxibles. Next to the Orions I say they are some of the best running buses we have. They put some if not all the 97xx's and some 96xx's to shame. I say it like that because I don't know how the over five companies buses run.
D.
That's good news. I thought Flxibles were still in fairly regular service there? I love building models of them...there's nothing like cutting a Road Champs down to a 30-footer and putting on that ST stripe scheme once the paint is dry.
-F.
You do that? That sounds cool! I had a few of them Flxibles myself back in high school. I sold them to a friend of mines. I wish I could've kept one.
I remember awhile ago riding a Green Lines 85'GMC with 3 NYCT(blue) seats located opposite to the rear doors. Does anyone know which bus that was? I think it s a 2xx, I don't remember. Does anyone know what happened to the original seats? Also is that the only bus like that?
-Jay
I remember buses 251 and 278 with the blue wheelchair seats. My assumption is that the green wheelchair lift seats broke and since the TA is scrapping GMC RTS, then there are your available seats.
I remember seeing Triboro 701 with TA Doors in the front shortly before it got repainted.
#251 Q60
#278 Q11
#701 Q29
Demo #7560 stopped by just to top off her tanks. By now she's on the other side of the Whitestone Bridge headed home.
Oh, so she's Baaaaaaaaack, huh?
Haven't seen here in like 6 months...
Cleanairbus
Orion VII HEV STILL rollin'
The TA guy with the operator said they were NOW finished with their evualation of the bus. Looked like a new flyer inside.
A 50 year old man was struck yesterday by a Novabus yesterday in Jersey City. This incident occured on Sip Avenue and Van Wagenen Ave. The bus is owned by Montgomery and Westside Bus Co. in Jersey City. Bus number 1236. They are checking the bus for brake failure, The operator had to submit a BAC test. There was only one passenger on the bus, the passenger just felt impact, and did not see the accident. The bus has been impounded and the police are calling in a traffic investigator to recreate the accident.
Tony M.
Just had to ask, since when is a 50 year old male considered to be an "Old Man?" :)
Yea really, you beat me to it.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah, tell me about it. 50 is not old to me; my father was 45 when i was born, so I have a different way of regarding old age. Besides, you are as young as you feel!
-f.
I'm 61 and people tell me I look like 45. So darling, you look maverlous (Billy Crystal's thing.)
Chuck Greene
Chuck, I LOVE that line...Billy Crystal is by far one of my favorites and has been since I heard his albums in the 80s. Also, he was great on Saturday Night Live.
Have you ever seen "Running Scared"? The taxi chase is awesome, plus there's that great Michael McDonald tune and all the neat CTA Fishbowls in the background. I believe those were 1970s era 5307s?
-Fred
Running Scared was one of my favorite movies. The taxi chase scene
was wonderful. "Why are driving on this track and not the other track?" "How many amps does it take to push a train?" -"Shut up, penquin".
How about when they make the call to the "detectives" . Is this dects.
Sigliono and Montona? This is "pinky". The correct answer is "Ipswitch clams" , Oh , no......
Chuck Greene
It is what it sais in the newspaper guys! I am sorry. And yes I do agree too, my dad is 53 and he looks like he is 35. Sorry for the misdirection.
Tony
[The bus is owned by Montgomery and Westside Bus Co. in Jersey City.]
Do the "independents" still own buses? I thought they leased their buses from NJT.
NJT owns the buses the companies operate and maintain them.
Troy
Ok guys, let me test your knowledge of buses.
1. This is sort of easy. What borough is the only borough to have the route numbers 49 and 68?
2. Name 2 routes that is entirely 1 way. Meaning that they don't run in both directions on a street that is 2 way at all and runs on 1 way streets.
3. True or false. The 96 St crosstown in Manhattan used to have a route called the M19, which ran from 97 St/West End Av and had 2 terminals on the east, one at 97 St and the other 106 St/FDR Drive.
Don't be tempted to look at your bus maps ;-). Thanx
[1. This is sort of easy. What borough is the only borough to have the route numbers 49 and 68?]
Brooklyn.
- - - - -
[2. Name 2 routes that (are) entirely 1 way. Meaning that they don't run in both directions on a street that is 2 way at all and runs on 1 way streets.]
M27, B65. (To clarify your condition: Some of the B65's streets are actually two-way, but it doesn't operate two-way on any of them.) I'm also thinking of the M66 - but only if "Transverse Road #1" doesn't count as a street!
- - - - -
[3. True or false. The 96 St crosstown in Manhattan used to have a route called the M19, which ran from 97 St/West End Av and had 2 terminals on the east, one at 97 St and the other 106 St/FDR Drive.]
True. The south branch was renumbered first (to M96), then the north branch was renumbered (to M106) and rerouted (from 3rd/Lex to 5th/Madison).
M27, B65. (To clarify your condition: Some of the B65's streets are actually two-way, but it doesn't operate two-way on any of them.)
The same goes for the M27: one block of 42nd Street.
[The same goes for the M27: one block of 42nd Street.]
When did the M27 start using 42nd Street between 7th and 8th Avenues? It had been on 41st for as long as I can remember.
Both the M27 and the M50 use 42nd between 1st and 2nd now.
1. Brooklyn
2. M8? I can't think of any others
3. True
Doesn't the M8 turn on West Street? West Street is two-way.
I thought the question said that both directions of the route never ran on the same street. As long as the driver of the M8 can't wave to a driver going in the other direction, it should be OK.
I cheated and looked at a bus map. Between Avenue A and Avenue D, the M8 runs on 10th Street both ways. Sorry.
The M20 is another very close call, given that reading.
I haven't looked at others' answers (yet).
1. I only know Manhattan well, and it's definitely not Manhattan. Brooklyn? Yeah, it's gotta be Brooklyn.
2. I can think of a few close calls, like the M6, M8, M27, and M66, but I think they each run on a block or two of two-way street. Hmmm. At least one must be in Manhattan, with all its one-way streets, but I can't think of it. I give up.
3. Certainly (well, the last WB stop was at 97th but the first EB stop was at 96th). In the early 90's or very late 80's, the M18 and the main branch of the M19 became the M86 and the M96. (There may have been a few other route number changes at the same time, like the M20 becoming the M116. The M17 had already become the M79, with a slight route change, a few years earlier.) This was analogous to the branch splits on the M16 and M27. Then in the mid-90's, the remaining M19 became the M106.
Ok here's the answers (don't look then put your answer if you didn't see the Q's already)
1. An easy one Brooklyn
2. B65 & M27 (sorry guys, the M6 and M20 would be WRONG!)
3. True
For those who answered, thanx.
The M19 once used alternate terminals at 96th St & 1st Ave and 92nd St & York Avenue where the M86 & M31 terminate now.
i know this is off topic but are you norm n nite. LOL.
The M-19 terminals on the East Side were 1st Ave/96th Street or FDR Drive/E 106th Street. They are now the terminals of the M 96 and M 106
routes.
Thank You
Really? I was just recently wondering why the M96 doesn't run to the M31/M86 terminal. From 96th, turn right on the FDR service road, bear right on York, turn right on 91st, turn right on 1st, and turn left on 96th. Only problem is that the FDR service road can be clogged at times.
To go further into my reply of the M19 terminating at 92nd-York I realized that this terminal goes back to the days of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines. My uncle drove for them out of the 99th street barn and I lived on East 96th so I could see Uncle once in a while. If I only had the idea then to ask him for what today would be interesting memorabilia from Fifth Avenue Coach. As for the handle no I'm not Norm'N'Nite. The Night Train Show was Alan Fredericks who still pops up on CBS-FM. I was a DJ somewhere once long ago so I thought it would be a good handle for this Website.
Maybe i am wrong didn't Alan Fredericks pass away several months ago?
Thank You
PS- I hope i am
were off topic now but what do you guys think about cbs fm dropping the doowopp shop which alan fredericks hosted several times. he did host the original nite train show but norm n nite also hosted a show called that in the 1970s. and cbsfm has advertised on the back of njt buses.
Click Here For Details
Thanks 5301,
When I'm not in sub/bus talk that's my other favorite forum. I wouldn't use the "Night Train" monicker overthere. Now back to sub talk. I like the adjustments NJT made on the NEC evening schedule debuting next week. Now if you miss 3899 the next train 3725 leaves in 27 minutes instead of 32 minutes. Still a big gap for Metropark during the rush hour but an improvement.
Well transit-wise, everything went fine to Palisades center.
The Tappan Zee express going was fast, from White Plains transit center to the Palisades mall, via the NYS Thruway and over the beautiful Tappen Zee bridge. The Nyack area (or so I thought) looked pretty open and industrial, and the area actually looked like a former dump (upon which the mall was built).
I got there early, at 10am and stayed there about 4 hours. The mall was huge, but kinda dingy looking, and there were very few shoppers. even the food court was empty at noontime.
Still, that didn't bother me. I didn't take too many mall photos, since I know the way malls are with photography.
INSTEAD, I went outside of the mall, trying to get a good picture of the beautiful hill and roads to the north of the mall. I reach the edge of the mall property, start to get my camera out, and get a visit from the Clarkstown police. The officer walks up to me and asks "what are you doing". At the time I put my camera away, and was just listening to the radio. So I said "I was just listening to the radio". He said, "what was that other thing you were holding?". So I told him I was taking pictures. He asked "of what". I said the hill and the roads. He said that "I was looking suspicious and then he asked me for my ID". So I gave him my ID, he asked me if I had any warrants, to which I replied "no". He gave the information from my ID to the dispatcher and everything checked out OK.
Meanwhile, the officer was very polite and friendly, and said that I didn't break any laws. He said that I could take a photo, but I said that I won't since it's making the authorities uncomfortable. The officer stated that "due to the terrorist concerns, anyone taking pictures in the area will be quetioned and their ID will be checked, as required in any PD contact".
Well even though I didn't get in any real trouble, it ruined the rest of my trip. I didn't feel like hanging around the mall anymore, and I was in most of the stores. I left around 1pm on the next Tappan zee express. I managed to get a few more shots of the area from the bus (thank God for tinted windows).
Going back my bus took a longer way, stopping in the scenic Nyack and Tarrytown areas.
I'm glad I left early, because there was a back-up going Rockland bound, certainly delaying the buses.
Being it was only 2pm, I walked around the nice City of White Plains and went to The Westchester Mall and the Galleria, and took a few more pics (no problems there).
So I end this day, depressed and angry. Depressed because taking photos now makes me a terrorist. Angry because of all we lost from 9/11, the Twin Towers, so many inncocent lives, and in some way, our freedom too.
That's the realality of the times we live in. Malls are probably high on the watch list for officals concerned with terrorist attacks since we are now entering the holiday season, and the malls will be crowded soon enough. Look at it this way, had you been someone with ill intentions, the PO would of had been right to stop and question you. Just mt two cents worth....
Dont' take it personal......
True, but terrorists probably have hidden cameras they carry around to take pics, unless they are stupid enough to go around photographing these days.
I wasn't even photographing the mall, but the hill just north of it, because it was a pretty steep hill (indeed it was, leaving the mall the bus was straining).
The question is, what is too far? Will they start issuing photography permits next? Are we gonna start putting metal detectors at the entrance to our malls? I don't wanna get into a whole political thing here, but tourists take pictures. If you won't let people take pictures, which is a big part of why I like to travel, then people will stop coming.
Funny thing is, people were taking pics all over Grand Central, even in front of the National Guard, no problems. Malls OTOH, seem to be very resistant to photography, and this mall probably uses Clarkston police for all it's outdoor security. In all likelyhood, terrorists would target a much busier place, like in a big city, not some suburban mall that isn't even that crowded.
We cannot live our lives in fear, we have to try and move on, cautously, from 9/11. I feel what happened to me, was going too far.
I was going to take just one pic of the hill, and that was it. And the road. I guess roads are now off-limits too.
I think we should concentrate our effors on getting rid of the terrorists, and not treat tourists, and visitors, who want to bring back trip photos, as criminals.
The way I see it, it's becoming more like Beijing everyday.
I am just stunned. It's ridiculous, that someone can't even walk around and take a few photos. I guess they are just doing their jobs, but I feel this has really gotten out of control. I have met you, and I do not feel you look threatening or like a terrorist! It's crazy.
Unfortunately, we do not live in the same world we lived in on September 10th, 2001. The terrorists have won in a sense when people can't even take an occasional photo. I think it's disgusting that I can be hassled for capturing the beauty of the Golden Gate Bridge, or the Brooklyn Bridge, or even something as simple as hill
Yeah no kidding.It's really pathetic already.I mean,c'mon it's been a year already,give it a damn rest already! We should just go about our lives as normal? How the hell are we supposed to do that when we got the stupid authorities hounding us for taking one damn picture, ESPECIALLY around an area of a mall that's practically in the middle of nowhere.What do they think we're gonna do? Blow up the damn hill? I mean c'mon,that's just stupid.What will blowing up a crumy hill accomplish?
Then you hear on the news about how the Federal agents and all those losers have info about another possible terriost attack and all that stuff.If we're supposed to go on with our lives as normal,that sure isn't the way to do it.Constantly reminding us of the bad things isn't the way to go,that's for sure.
And what would you say if one day they caught an actual terrorist who was taking pictures with plans to blow up the mall where your family shops at. Would you still say the officer had no right being there to question the individual? I wouldn't have a problem with them questioning me as long as I know they are on the job making the area safer for everybody, especially around the holidays. I'm quite sure that the cop had no clue what was being photographed. He only knows pictures are being taken in a public place that will see high population in the coming months. The fact of the matter is terrorists are in this country right now probably making plans. The only way to keep them at bay is to let them know we are looking for them. Once they know we have softened up, like the way we were post 9/11, that's when they hit hard. Look what just happened in Indonesia. I suggest you get used to these minor inconveniences. Things could be alot worse. This could drag on for years to come. And things will probably get even worse if we make a move on Iraq.
BIG AL
And what would you say if one day they caught an actual terrorist who was taking pictures with plans to blow up the mall where your family shops at. Would you still say the officer had no right being there to question the individual? I wouldn't have a problem with them questioning me as long as I know they are on the job making the area safer for everybody, especially around the holidays. I'm quite sure that the cop had no clue what was being photographed. He only knows pictures are being taken in a public place that will see high population in the coming months. The fact of the matter is terrorists are in this country right now probably making plans. The only way to keep them at bay is to let them know we are looking for them. Once they know we have softened up, like the way we were post 9/11, that's when they hit hard. Look what just happened in Indonesia. I suggest you get used to these minor inconveniences. Things could be alot worse and this could drag on for years to come. And the situation will probably get even worse if we make a move on Iraq.
BIG AL
I agree that it's disturbing. Last I checked, Americans are not required to carry ID except when engaged in certain specific activities like driving. Especially in the NYC area, where many people don't drive (my father, a New Yorker for his entire life except for law school, has only two forms of photo ID, a passport and a reduced-fare MetroCard), it's not reasonable to assume that any random person happens to be carrying ID. What would have happened to John if he hadn't had ID with him? The police even admitted he wasn't doing anything illegal; would they have hauled him into the station anyway?
Don't forget, it's more than just 9/11-style terrorists that have the authorities on edge these days. When you're just hanging around a parking lot, I'm sure they start to think about what's going on down in Maryland and Northern Virginia. I'm sure that the shoppers who were down in the parking lot would be very happy to know that there was an officer talking to anyone he found on the perimeter of the mall.
The officer probably realized you were harmless from the first words out of your mouth, but completed the check just to be thorough.
CG
I had MCI older buses (102's I think) both ways on the TZX. They had a 6V-92 and ran pretty good. they semmed narrow though, like they could be 96' wide.
I also saw an NYCT RTS around the Tarrytown MNRR station.
TOR locals use Orion 1's, which were mostly 6v92 powered, except for one, that one sounded like a Series 50.
Bee Line buses all over White Plains. Saw alot of Orion V's, Flxibles, and some artics. All looked in very good condition and sounded like all were series 50s.
Also saw a Bee Line MCI Cruiser as well. I would've taken more pics of buses, but I didn't want to push my luck.
Also there were signs all over the mall about this empty space (the attic) they built, but they can only put stores in there if this Prop.1 passes.
Signs literally all over the mall, about how Palisades center has been good for Clarkstown. "Not Just bigger, but better".
Still, compared to Garden State Plaza, Palisades is no competition.
GSP is a much nicer mall. Also the cemetary stones by the bus stop kinda creeped me out.
The Bee Line Artics you saw are Neoplans and are new with front door W/C lifts. They have Series 60 engines. The Flexibles are 1990 models and are in pretty good shape for their age, both body wise and mechanically. They are the last buses that have no W/C lifts.The Orion V's are 1995 with front door W/C lifts. All of the equipment is in pretty good to excellent shape.
Sorry about your experience in Rockland. But it is also comforting to know that there are people watching.
I understand your unfortunate situation. I'm glad that authorites are watching and taking this whole issue seriously. As a transit enthusiast, I really don't see myself taking many more pictures of trains/buses. On 9/11/02 WMATA buses were flying the actual flags - a practice that WMATA usually does on the 4th of July. I always liked to see the buses with the flags flying in the wind and of course I wanted to get some photos. I started that afternoon and got a few shots, but I also got strange looks from people, and WMATA personnel. Although I know that my intentions are totally harmless I decided to stop - just to avoid any making any more people suspicious and also getting approached by the police.
Wayne
On the Q44 today. OrionV Suburban #104 show up on the Q44 LTD with alot of people on it. It was around 2 PM as it was on it's way to the 14 Ave Stop bound for Jamaica.
Now there's a shock. That's the LAST route that needs less seating and narrower isles.
Well It seats more to me. It seats 44 and stands just about 20
RTSs have 41 seats. I counted two days ago. ^_^
Orions have about 37 or 38 seats.
The next time I'm on a surburban, I'll count.
Count again.
NYCT's 1981-88 RTS express buses (including the 7000s) have 43 seats. The 1996 express buses (9000s) have 39 seats.
NYCT's Orion express buses have 42 seats.
NYCT's local RTS buses have 40 seats, except those with double seats on both sides of the aisle (upper 4800s), which have 47 seats.
NYCT's Orion Vs have 40 seats, except that those with Series 50 engines (or the Cummins CNG equivalent) have 39 seats.
David
I am always seeing the suburbans on the Q26.
116 was on Q32 tonight.
#116 Q32
I see most of them on the Q14 and Q16.
ahem, for those on the west coast only (or anyone else that is a total couch potatoe) .... MTA # 7483 was in a AT&T wireless commercial with Long Beach on the sign down at what appears to be Wil Rogers State Park.
MTA ( NOT NYMTA) is surely making a lot of appearances out here in LA
eddie a
LACMTA is well represented on the tube, and in music videos as well, a few days ago flipping through the channels, I caught Craig David's "Can You Fill Me In" video, which has shots of 3 different buses, a Metro, an RTS-06, and a CNG Transliner.
Michelle Branch and Carlos Santana have a music video showing a fleeting glimpse of a Pace (suburban Chicago) bus, also Ms Branch sitting in a very old (split rear window) bus. Additionally,there is an L passing by in the background; enough to satisfy Bustalkers and Subtalkers!!
Thanks for the note. "Potatoe", eh? So how's Dan Quayle doing these days...LOL! I recall seeing that Flx Metro in the Craig David video as well. It's always cool to see buses on TV.
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato" (e)
The rear cover of my Texans/Eagles NFL Gameday program has what would appear to be a low 7000-series LACMTA NABI, but it's painted blue. When I get home, I'll have to check on the number...
I just saw a Canon commercial, didn't pay much attention to what it was about, but it seemed like this business woman had a dilemma about something office related, but anyway she was riding a bus, and when she got off, it was an RTS, with a NYC stripe, but the bus number looked odd, so did the destinations sign.
They put a blank sticker over the fourth number of the bus, and the side marker just said "Crosstown" without a route number. Shades of the Gevalia commercial!!
NOTE: These are just my thoughts and what I would do should a takeover of the Queens privates occur. None of this is guaranteed to happen and some of this is NOT, I repeat NOT actual and its just my opinions/thoughts. Take it seriously, but not too seriously. This is going to be a good discussion.
The Queens depots would really be big and expansion would be likely. Just imagine all of Queens is run by one agency. This would be my depot assignments should a takeover occur of local buses from the Queens privates. Fresh Pond and ENY would be included in this. Lets assume that:
#1 The proposed Maspeth depot is open
#2 A new Rockaway depot is created (would use current Green Bus garage)
#3 This is before possible route combos/eliminations
#4 I am NOT putting the current assignments!!! It would be changed around
Ok here we go!
QV:MTA Q1,2,4,30,36,43,46,75,77,83,88
DOT Q110,111(Split w/JAM)
CS:MTA Q12,13,14,15,16,20,26,27,28,31,44,48,74,76
DOT Q10/10A,25/34,65A,66,72,QBx1(split w/GH)
JA:MTA Q3,5,17,42,84,85
DOT Q6,9/9A,37,40,60(split w/??),65,112,113
(see #1)
MAS:MTA B24,43,48,61,Q32(split w/??),Q59
DOT Q18,19,19A,19B,23,33,45,47,101,101R,102,103,104
(see #2)
ROC:DOT Q11,21,22/22A,Q35,Q41,Q53
FP:MTA B13,20,26,38,39,52,54,57,Q54,Q55,Q58
DOT Q29,38,39,67,69
ENY:MTA B7,12,14,15,17,25,42,45,60,82,83,Q24,Q56
DOT Q7,8
Whew, that was long but I finished. I would like your opinions on this
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
You forgot about the express routes. Also, why move the Q31 over to C.S.? Neither one of the terminus' are near that depot. Also, I would send the Q3, Q111 and Q113 over to Rockaway depot and bring the Q24, Q54 and Q56 over to Jamaica which is already on some drawing boards should a new Jamaica depot be built someplace else. Also, if you move the Q4 over to QV, might as well send the Q84 as well. 130th ave is only a few blocks further than the terminus of the Q4.
BIG AL
I left the express routes out "on purpose" because I forgot where some of the routes plus I was doing local buses only.
I put the Q31 there by mistake would stay in QV*
I left the express routes out "on purpose" because I forgot where some of the routes go plus I was doing local buses only.
I put the Q31 there by mistake would stay in QV*
Whoa! BIG AL! I'm surprised that you would answer that question...since that's how "rumors" get started. I'm not insulting you...however, you had mentioned earlier that these questions are nothing but "rumor" type questions. Tnanks for your opinion though. BTW, Q111 should be all Jamaica.
You are right. Normally I don't get into these kind of posts. However, it was made pretty clear in the first thread that this was all fiction, which for the most part it is, so I figured for once I would add my two cents. I just pray nobody reads these posts and confuses it with possible reality. The only imbecile who would probably do that is BUSFAN, but (knock on wood) he hasn't posted anything lately.
BIG AL
That is very true, BIG AL!
Well I had been thinking that if the TA runs the Q60 line it would be a route run with JAM and MJQ Buses
In the event that the MTA does take over the Private Bus Lines i doubt that the Green Line Rockaway Facility which is owned by the company will be included. I have seen the facility and it is indeed very small. Basically it is used for storage and some very light maintance. Most heavy maintance is done at the main Green Line depot on Rockaway Blvd. To upgrade the Rockaway facility will just not be cost efficent for the MTA.
If the MTA was to take over the Private line routes I believe that they would look to purchase the Green Bus Line Rockaway Blvd Depot and the Triboro Coach facility in Jackson Heights. The Jamaica Bus Line Depot on Brewer Blvd is also small but if the TA decicdes to replace the current Jamaica Depot building then it may lease the facility while Jamaica Depot is rebuilt.
Also it should be noted that the Command Bus Depot and Queens Surfice facilities are already city owned.
I also understand that the MTA has killed the idea of a new replacement depot for Jamaica to be located in the Kennedy Airport area. If true then the Green Line facility will be a great facility for the TA to own.
This is speculation on my part.
Any comments
Thank You
If you guys have the time & "patience", what would your bus assignments be if a full takeover occured? Include the Rockaway & proposed Maspeth depot.
REMEMBER: This is just a proposal, NOT the real thing {QV,CS,JAM,FP & ENY ARE real depots}. Rockaway I made up because there is no way 3 depots plus FP & ENY could handle all of this and the proposed Maspeth I just threw in there to make things easier.
Today I took a trip by car to the Ocean County Mall in Tom River. While driving I saw a few RTS's runing by a company called Ocean Ride, or something like that. Well I did not get that clase to that but the once I saw all had the Yellow lights above the frount windows and rear Destions Signs(witch were not working, they had I think Roll signs in front.) Well they might have been Ex-MTA since I don't think many other companys have the yellow light over the Windows.
Dame I wish I had a camera, but the one I do have need a new lens before I use it. I been tring to get my wife to lets me get a digal one, but that has not worked out yet.
Robert
I think it is Lori Transit - Buses in 500 numbers??
I saw these when I went to Seaside Heights in the summer.
I don't know if they are ex-MTA, but sure look like them.
Lori Trainsit are Ex-MTA's. I see them from time to time at the Freehold Mail. They have Ex-Express buses. These were run by a drifferent company all togeather. The buses said "Oeane Ride" or something like this. If you ever go down to the Oeance County Mall in Toms River you will see them. I am one day going just to buy a Digale Camira without my wife noing.
Robert
I know there's a small fixed route operation out of Ocean County, which IIRC is managed by Ocean County and contracted out. It's been a few years since I've been that way on a weekday, but I think Ocean Ride may be the county's bus system - similar to Morris County Metro (PABCO), but NJ Transit doesn't subsidize the system or lease buses to Ocean County as they do for Morris County.
On a somewhat related note, Monmouth County has a couple of "modified fixed route" buses which hub at the Freehold Mall - one operates local service to Howell Twp and one operates local service to Marlboro Twp. The last time I was down there, the buses were operated by Laidlaw.
Roger Toussiant has just fired two of the key people in the "private" section of Local 100 ... Div. Chairman Mike Curran (QSC) & VP George Jennings (cTc). The proposed replacements are: Enzo Sinnona (cTc) and William Mooney (Liberty). Bill has a position in the union already, but Enzo is just a driver who has failed to get membership support in the past.
The union handout states that Roger promised TA 100 support for their Brothers before they went out on strike.
Is this the end of them? Aren't they appealing it to a higher authority (The International)?
I knew both of them and they were decent. I didn't always agree with their thoughts or arguments but they did a good job for their membership.
I imagine that the enitre membership is really pissed and fully support George and Mike. his time, I think Roger has gone too far. Keep us posted, please
[... I imagine that the enitre membership is really pissed ...]
That about sums it up !
I've intimately known Mike for for most of the 7 years I've been here.
He's a pleasent & reasonable guy, well as reasonable as you can expect from a union guy ;-)
George, I've met a couple of times, don't dislike him either.
The other day someone said that Roger has surrounded himself with guys who own their existance to him, so they dare not cross him.
A union leader is like a politian, i.e. he needs to listen to what the members want & be will to debate vs. dictate.
It has been very quiet that nobody has information or knows about NJ Transit's selected RTSs that will go through a hybrid-electric program. Do anyone have information on this project? Which are the chosen buses and which garage will they come from? Will they be looking more like MTA's New York City Bus #6360? Is #6360 still in service? I have read from a response a while ago that MTA shipped it back to Lodi facility.
As for the Malls. The Nanuet and Palisades mall subject is pretty interesting. I'm somewhat surprise that Palisades is the second largest Mall in the world if I'm not mistaking. I haven't heard anything about that Mall. I mean, there wasn't any hype on Palisades when its the holiday season and such. I would like to know is which bus system(s) again, serves these two malls or just one of the other. Where are they located? Thank you!
Have a good day!
-Ronnie
transit buff
[I'm somewhat surprise that Palisades is the second largest Mall in the world if I'm not mistaking.]
You are mistaken, as have been some earlier posters. Palisades Center isn't even the second largest mall in the New York Metropolitan area. Roosevelt Field and Garden State Plaza each have more square footage than Palisades Center. I haven't checked more than a few other retail markets in the U.S., but find at least four malls with more square footage than Palisades Center: Woodfield (where my wife shopped a few days ago) and Oakbrook Center in the Chicago area; Aventura Mall in Miami; and the big daddy of them all, Mall of America, in the Minneapolis area. Bottom line: Palisades Center is no larger than the 7th largest mall in the U.S., and perhaps even smaller than that.
Yeah they brag about it though. It was funny about all the ads in the mall practically begging people to shop there.
"Palisades mall has been good for Clarkstown", "Palisades mall, not bigger, just better" "Palisades center pays it taxes", "Palisades has opened up a new police station", "please vote YES on Prop 1 so we can fill our empty attic",etc.
Not only was the mall empty, considering my questioning by police, I hardly saw any security guards in the mall.
Also the food court seating was VERY uncomfortable, like the R40 seats.
And the seats and tables looked dirty.
I would much rather shop at Roosevelt Field, or Garden State Plaza.
Gee, are there 2 palisades malls? I went there a few months ago and found it to be very nice. Had lunch at Chilis it was very clean.
Peace,
ANDEE
[Gee, are there 2 palisades malls?]
I go to Palisades Center quite frequently, and my experience is similar to Andee's and not John's. But then again, I have generally had pleasant experiences on LI Bus.
As far as I know there is only 1 Palisades Center and I agree with you,it is very nice and clean for the most part.But you know how people are,they just love to get things dirty and keep them dirty.I went there last week and absoultely loved that mall.I gave it a A+ rank.It deserved it.
[I would like to know is which bus system(s) again, serves these two malls or just one of the other.]
The following buses serve Palisades Center: Red & Tan (Rockland Coach) 20; Tappan Zee Express; Transport of Rockland 59, 91 & 92; Clarkstown Mini Trans A & D.
The following buses serve Nanuet Mall: Red & Tan 11A, 11C, 20 & 49 (49 does not go into the Mall); TOR 59 & 93; Clarkstown Mini Trans A, B, C, D & E.
[Where are they located?]
Without going into too much detail, Palisades Center is at Exit 12 of the New York Thruway (I-87). Nanuet Mall is about 1/2 mile east of Exit 14 of the Thruway, along Route 59.
It's 48,not 49.The 48 is the express from PABT-Palisades Center.
Nanuet Mall is of course in Nanuet and Palisades Center is in West Nyack. Wait,Clarkston? How can it be in Clarkston? That's a mistake.
It's West Nyack.Even a sign on Hwy route 304 said West Nyack not Clarkston.
Sid said that Clarkstown Mini Trans served the mall - he did not say the mall was in Clarkstown.
This AM someone lost their MC holder on one of our buses, the one with the cord that goes around your neck !
So there we are looking for the bus in the yard in the rain ... just part of the friendly service :-(
BTW, we did find it.
Did you keep it?
THAT wouldn't be part of the friendly service.
>>> This AM someone lost their MC holder on one of our buses, the one with the cord that goes around your neck <<<
That seems hard to lose. Did the passenger's head become unscrewed? :-)
Tom
I have a question. Where does SEPTA go to refuel their CNG PHLASH buses since I think SEPTA has no CNG facilities?
I was under the impression that there was a CNG facility at Germantown. I might be wrong, but I think that's were the PHLASH CNG buses are refueled.
I believe that some concepts in the proposed reorganization of the MTA are good such as combining the LIRR and Metro-North into one agency.
However to divide New York City Transit into two seperate agencies is not realistic. If anything the Department of Subways and the Department of Buses should work more together. This is something that is not done already. If the TA has their way they would eliminate all bus lines that duplicate subway routes. They are thinking of eliminating the B-51 because most subway stations near the B-51 are handicapped accessible. The TA does not realize that they are two differnt markets. People who want speed will take the subway but they are people who are going a short distance and perfer a bus.
The buses should complement the subways as well as feeding them. The TA should also look at coordinating with the new ferry services that are now operating. Its a shame that NY Waterways has to run their own bus system. It duplicates the TA routes in most cases. Imagene the reduction in traffic in Manhattan if the TA routes feed NY Waterways ferry terminals.
In additon NYC TRansit should take over the DOT runs to provide a efficent bus network within the 5 boros of the City.
A new surburban bus authority should be set up to operate the buses in Nassau,Suffolk,Westchester and Rockland to coordinate with train stations and to provide a inter county bus system .
Theres a need for major improvements and it should be one agency that should implement them but NYC Transit should have nothing to do with a surburban bus system.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
[A new surburban bus authority should be set up to operate the buses in Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and Rockland to coordinate with train stations and to provide a inter county bus system.]
That was excactly the original idea behind the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority - to cover the seven non-NYC counties in the MTA District. (Compare with Pace, which serves a Connecticut-sized area surrounding Chicago.) However, six of the counties wanted to keep doing their own thing, so only Nassau County bought into the MSBA concept.
>>However, six of the counties wanted to keep doing their own thing, so only Nassau County bought into the MSBA concept.<<
Is that why I saw a 100 series GM Suburban Fishbowl years ago in Mitchell Field with WHITE PLAINS on the roll sign ?
Bill "Newkirk"
"They are thinking of eliminating the B-51 because most subway stations near the B-51 are handicapped accessible."
Please indicate, via names and titles, who "they" are.
David
Sorry David my source request I never use their name or title
Thank You
Fine. Today, I talked to the Director of Brooklyn/Queens/Staten Island Service Planning. He told me unequivocally that there are no plans whatsoever to do away with the B51 route. Unless "Barry"'s source is higher than the guy who makes the recommendations as to which routes stay and which routes go in Brooklyn, I give it no credence whatsoever and I suggest that other BusTalkers do the same.
David
David,
The person i know works for the MTA but does not work for the TA
Take it from there
Unless the person is either Chairman Kalikow or Executive Director Lapp, the person has no standing to be deciding anything about NYC Transit's bus service. (The Board does not develop service plans -- it only votes on them.)
So, which one is it?
David
David,
Lets talk about credence. You work for an agency that is so incomptent that if it was privately run it will be bankrupt within a year. I have owned a business so i know what i am talking about.
Here are some facts:
1- At Jackie Gleason Depot the CNG Fuel tanks are next to a subway yard where work trains are parked. If a work train ever loses its brakes and runs past the track end and goes into the fuel tanks you will have an explosion that will make the collaspe of the twin towers look like nothing.
2- Your agency has created bus routes that are so horrible people dread riding them. ie the B-82 and it looks like the B-47 will be another one.
3- Your agency has purchased 60 feet articulated buses and place them on heavy routes and then cut service. True 4 articulated buses have more seating than 5 40 feet standard buses but with 4 articulated buses you still have only 4 pair of doors instead of 5 pairs of doors
on standard buses but now you lose a pair of doors so it takes more time to load and then unload a bus. And what about the longer waiting time. So what do you save.
4- Your agency has purchased 45 feet crusiers for express routes. Hey guess what they cut service. Why because they seat more so you need less buses on the line. Since they are one door only it takes longer to get off the buse. And in an emergncy you can't use them on a local line.
5- Your agency extends bus lines so they can save money on dispatchers posts. IE: The B-8 and B-14 extenstions last month done to save money on diapatchers
6- Your agency puts bus stops in unsafe locations. ie: F Line Shuttle on Shell Road under the Belt parkway. A great place for a crime late at night and they make passengers walk a long distance to get to the subway enterence especially at Avenue X where you have to walk a whole block. Yes the TA did move the stop closer but had to remove it because buses were going down a residential block to turn around.
7-Your agency outright lies to the public. It was promised that they will match a bus for every tain during the Stillwell Ave Terminal reconstruction. Well the Q line in the midnight hours operates every 20 minuates while the B-68 bus its replacement between Brighton Beach and Stillwell Avenue operates every 40 minuates.
So who has creadbility now? The TA?
Thank You
"2- Your agency has created bus routes that are so horrible people dread riding them. ie the B-82 and it looks like the B-47 will be another one."
I agree with you on most of your reasons b/c the agency is screwed up, unfortunately . Yes, the B82 was just a complete disaster and still is but I disagree with your take on the B47. Its about time they put a full length service via Ralph Av and its probably the best combo of the 4 bus combos since 1995.
The B13 should be criticized because it still has atrocious headways even though its a longer route & with Gateway, it's sad that they didn't increase service on this route.
"6- Your agency puts bus stops in unsafe locations. ie: F Line Shuttle on Shell Road under the Belt parkway. A great place for a crime late at night and they make passengers walk a long distance to get to the subway enterence especially at Avenue X where you have to walk a whole block. Yes the TA did move the stop closer but had to remove it because buses were going down a residential block to turn around."
They should have just extended the B74 to Ave X. Thie shuttle bus is silly since it has what 3 buses other than rush hours & middays and probably ONE late nigts.
Now the new route of the B68 to Stillwell is just plain dumb. Its so stupid, I don't even want to talk about it.
Barry, if you don't work for the MTA, you should you'd be a great planner. Once I'm old enough(I'm only 17), I might consider working for the MTA because you, myself and other Bustalkers know we could do better than what the MTA have now.
In regards to the B-82, I wonder where you draw the line between "convenience" and "bad service"? By "convenience", I mean that people from Starrett City (or whatever bogus new fancy name it is called now) have a "one seat" ride to many places that the old B-50 did not reach. Not to mention the free transfers to and from all the intersecting lines west of Coney Island Avenue. However, once you lengthen a route, the "bad service" begins due to the usual variables that affect a city bus route. In other words: You can't win!
the agency if privately run would go bankrupt in a week much less a year. i have to disagree with you on the mci buses. this was best deal nyct ever made. dont forget this is a seven year lease not a purchase and on staten island there have been service increases since their arrival. of course they still dont srevice the borough adequately.
The MCI's are not under lease.
I didn't say anything about MCI buses. I was discussing the B-82.
I once worked for the TA in Operations Planning on a very temoirary basis taking subway surveys.
Thank You for your nice words
About working for the TA- Go for it !!!! and if you make it you will be just fine
Good Luck !!!!
Thanks for your nice words of encouragement. I'm really thinking about working for them in the future.
The MTA has made some poor decisions, so bad that it destroyed routes that were once reliable, reduced service on the wrong bus routes, bad repowers, you guys see where I am going and some services just make no sense.
1. Bx12 LTD runs weekdays only. I rode that bus on a few weekends and it has just as much if not, more than the weekdays, especially to Bay Plaza and Pelham Bay Park.The way the schedule is set up they could easily add weekend LTD stop service. How come they never implemented one?
2. Repowering the 1993 Orions was a bad mistake, IMO. Some of the repowers really hurt some buses (120's). This shows the true quality in the RTS they have repowers and they run fine but in Orions they just don't work (I miss those original Cummins engines). There are a few non-repowers still out there.
3. B82. This bus is just bad. I say it should be spilt between UP & ENY like it was before because it looks like 1 depot alone can't handle this route. Yes, it provided Starrett City with 24 hour service for the first time but extra long routes with no LTD stop service tend to do bad and the bunching is horrendous! I could write a story but I'll leave it like this.
4. Changing depots of the B68. Bring it back to UP, where it was a reliable bus. Right now in JG its doing good but its never been the same since bunching & gaps are common, 7 days a week
Comments. Croticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Re: The B-47
I do not believe that the line 's creation was bad. What i do not like about it is that it was cut back from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Woodhall Hospital which now means it will take 3 buses to go from one end of Broadway to another and cost a double fare.
I also believe that the TA should have extended the B-65 to replace the B-40 service to Pennsylvina and Liberty Avenue. This would have created a new east-west crosstown route and would have allowed new riderhip patterns to have developed.
Re: The B-68
I agree with you about how better the line operated in Ulmer Park than they way Gleason operates it.
Re: The B-82
It is way too long and even people in Operations Planning have said it was a mistake. But they also told me that when i proposed they go back to the B-5 and B-50 "we can't admit that we made a mistake"
What i believe that what the TA should do with the B-82 is to make it a limited stop line between Flatbush Ave/Kings Highway and Bay Parkway/86th Street between 5:30AM and 11:00 PM Monday to Saturday and 8:00AM to 10:00 on Sunday and bring back the B-5 route for local service similar to the Q20/Q44 in Queens
Also whats your opinion with Limited stop service on the B-6 weekends?
Keep writing your views
Go to college and take a TA test when it comes up and then take the job and work your way up the ranks.
Also get that college degree. It can't hurt
Good Luck again
Thank You
"Re: The B-47
I do not believe that the line 's creation was bad. What i do not like about it is that it was cut back from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Woodhall Hospital which now means it will take 3 buses to go from one end of Broadway to another and cost a double fare.
I also believe that the TA should have extended the B-65 to replace the B-40 service to Pennsylvina and Liberty Avenue. This would have created a new east-west crosstown route and would have allowed new riderhip patterns to have developed."
B47: This is the only downfall of the B47. I thought it would go to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza but it didn't. I rode it terminal to terminal and it makes sense to terminate at Woodhull now until people start to catch on. If people need/want Liberty Av service, I think the B45 is a better pick since it could run down the rest of St John's Pl and follow the old 40 route but it used to have so few passengers so I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
B6 and B82: I believe that the 82, not the B6 should have been chosen as the limited stop service BUT they have similar ridership volume. They had to choose and they thought the 6 was better but it was a difficult choice. Yes, in order for a 82 LTD to be possible they must bring back the old routes but I'd rather bring back the 50 though and make it 24 hours from C.I Av to Starrett City while 82's could be extended to Gateway all times except nights, where it would terminate at Starrett City. They should implement weekend limited stop service on the B6(it may happen sooner or later).
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
1. B 47
Agree should have gone to Willamsburg Br. I still don't like the idea that I have to depend on the B 46. In terms of the B 65 taking over the dicontinued portion of the B 40. I am B 45 favorite and I always thaught it would be better for the B 45 to take that portion for two reasons. 1) A straight route along St. Johns Pl. If it as not to extend to Penn Av, it could have extended to Saratoga Av where it can have transfers to the B 7 and B 12. Also turnarounds could be done at Saratoga and St Johns. 2) B 45 is run by ENY why have the B 65 which is JG go there unless they swap bus depots. If the B 65 was proposed to go there, probably it would be better to let it terminate at Euclid Av to connect with B13, Q7 , Q 8.
B 68
no comments except to CI via Surf Av and only Surf Av
B 82
Yes limited service is needed but with some minor changes. 1) limited service would run between Ocean Av/ Kings Hwy to Canarsie/ Rock Pky Sta. And to eliminate any trafic problems at Flatlands/ flatbush av, let LTD run via Kings Hwy and Ave K (like it was originally when the route was consolidated). I hate to admit it but it could bring the idea of the B 5 or B50 to take over the B 82 original route as you stated. I am more favor for a B 82 local but a Q 20/ 44 format is not that bad*. But the B 5 or B 50 have to run from Starett City to Coney Island Av (I don't see going to Bensonhurst so it sounds more like B 50.) When any idea of busses going to Gateway is approved, the B 5 or B 50 should serve Starett City and B 82 to serve Gateway.
B6
Yes it needs weekend limited service, you can support this idea base on passengers.
B 51
Just a thaught!! extended it to 36 St or even 86 St via 4 Av in Brooklyn and extending to Battery Park in Manhattan.
B 39
while we are in a related subject extended it towards 23 St/ 3 Av. I am working with this one but this route can also be utalied even more better than it is.
As for a colege
What major should I be going for? I am really thinking about this and I am always wanting to know how!!
Comments ..Questions...
The B39 doesn't need to go to 23 St./3 Av. The M103 already serves 3rd Av.. Maybe it should be extended to Bowery so people can transfer to the M103, but nothing longer than that. The B39 wasn't meant to have a large role in Manhattan service.
Let me make a route change
Q56
Okay, lets face it, the (J) line outdoes the Q56 in every way. They are so similar. If anyone on Jamaica Av. needs to go to Jamaica center, take the (J) train there, the Q56 is not worth it. So here's the change:
For the Q56, kill the current service to Jamaica center. It will end at Woodhaven Blvd.. So starting from Woodhaven Blvd. the Q56 will go its regular path to Bway Junct., however it will now travel Eastern Parkway all the way up to the Utica Av. (3) and (4) line station. Eastern Parkway will actually have a bus route going through it besides the B14. The Q56 should become B56 once again.
I know this change might be a little strange, but its better than the current Q56, duplicating the (J) line. The B56 will actually differ from the (J) line.
I've stared at the Brooklyn Bus map for awhile, looking at the Q56. Because of Highland Park, it's really difficult to give the Q56 a different path.
Everyone is free to express their opinion on this.
Thanks for your nice words of encouragement. I'm really thinking about working for them in the future.
The MTA has made some poor decisions, so bad that it destroyed routes that were once reliable, reduced service on the wrong bus routes, bad repowers, you guys see where I am going and some services just make no sense.
1. Bx12 LTD runs weekdays only. I rode that bus on a few weekends and it has just as much if not, more than the weekdays, especially to Bay Plaza and Pelham Bay Park.The way the schedule is set up they could easily add weekend LTD stop service. How come they never implemented one?
2. Repowering the 1993 Orions was a bad mistake, IMO. Some of the repowers really hurt some buses (120's). This shows the true quality in the RTS they have repowers and they run fine but in Orions they just don't work (I miss those original Cummins engines). There are a few non-repowers still out there.
3. B82. This bus is just bad. I say it should be spilt between UP & ENY like it was before because it looks like 1 depot alone can't handle this route. Yes, it provided Starrett City with 24 hour service for the first time but extra long routes with no LTD stop service tend to do bad and the bunching is horrendous! I could write a story but I'll leave it like this.
4. Changing depots of the B68. Bring it back to UP, where it was a reliable bus. Right now in JG its doing good but its never been the same since bunching & gaps are common, 7 days a week
Comments. Croticism. Compliments. Holla back.
1. I'm not familiar enough with the Bx12's weekend ridership patterns to comment -- perhaps someone else here will.
2. Repowering is being done by order of the Governor, not for operational reasons but to assuage the "dirty diesel" contingent.
3. It doesn't matter whether the B82 runs out of one depot, two depots, or a hundred depots. It needs constant supervision.
4. The B68 ran like crap out of Ulmer Park and it runs like crap out of Gleason. Get the damned parked cars out of the driving lanes on Coney Island Avenue -- that's what will fix the line.
David
"The B68 ran like crap out of Ulmer Park and it runs like crap out of Gleason. Get the damned parked cars out of the driving lanes on Coney Island Avenue -- that's what will fix the line."
Bring back the PCC's!! That's what will fix the line!!
Without tracks and an electric power source, PCCs would not be able to do anything on the B68 but sit there. Tracks and a power source are not coming back.
(Not that I think it's a bad idea...)
David
"4. The B68 ran like crap out of Ulmer Park and it runs like crap out of Gleason. Get the damned parked cars out of the driving lanes on Coney Island Avenue -- that's what will fix the line."
Even though it has double parking problems, it WAS more reliable in UP and this bus was never the same once it went to JG. I live in the vicinity of the route and I've been riding it for years, so I know. Yes, they should crack down on these people who insist on double parking on C.I Av(particularly between Av J and Kings Hwy).
Okay, about the B82. I've never been on it, but a lot of people here say its bad. Its similar to the B6, except that the B6 was giving LTD service. Why didn't the TA give the B82 LTD service?
i drove b68 in the 80s. the double parking was not the main problem. it picked up mainly elderly people and students. also a huge amount of yeshiva students who had no specials going to their schools. on friday they break at noon due to the sabbath. otherwise they break at 5pm. you got 14 books of transfers and one day i had to run across ci ave to ask another driver for more.
I alo thaught about that too. The biggest problems were always that this route did take on students from Windsor Terr/Prospect Park SW, Park circle, Church Av, Av J and M, Kings Hwy, and ave U. I should know I was one of those students from Windsor Terr and it started to get crowded immediately afterschool.
I agree that the b82 is to long. But limitd service is not the answer because of congestion on Flatlands Ave and Kingshighway between coney isLand and Nostrand Aves and flatlaands Ave between rocaway parlway and ralph ave. why sugfestionis to add more short b7's from flatbush to Coney Island aves and cut line service on the 82 specially in the in the mornig rush were there is a lot of service which is geared toward the kings highway brighton line station. The b7 is gerally sorter and more reliable. As for the b47 I like the route but something should have been exstended to service the liberty ave market. As for the broodway situation nave u ever heard for J and M line which runs above it.
TO Willamsburg:
It is call people who do not want to use the subway to get to like Union Av or such. Yeah I know there is a B 46 and B 46 LTD but that is my opion
B82:
Re read my post I just solved flatland/Flatbush problem for a limited service. In terms of Kings Hwy, here is a thaught. You can still have a B 82 ltd service w/ your idea. Bring back the B 50 (making all local stops at Flatlands) and B 82 making all limited stops (just like the Q20/44 format). The B 7 would be extended to Bensonhurst making all local stops while the B 82 makes all limited stops. To also make the ride smother, B 82 should use also Quietin Rd bet CI AV - to Kings Hwy and bring back to along Ave K and Kings hwy bet Flatbush and Utica Avs. Of coure you will need more B 7s and B 82
just a thaught
The old B40's portion on Liberty Av had so few passengers that it should have been cancelled sooner plus people always used the B12. I guess people didn't know where the 40 went. If a Liberty Av service is needed again(which I doubt), extend the B45 east via St Johns and it would follow the old 40 route to Penn Av. but would go to Fulton St, make a right on Penn, then right on Liberty then resumes old 40 route. Only drawback is the traffic but I think it will be ok.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Like I said in my earlier post... B45 to Saratoga Av (for xfers to B7 & B12) or Euclid Av (for xfers to B13, Q7, Q8)
or
like someone mention B 65 to Penn Av (a better crosstown route to take over)
That should be the solution
Whenever you are in the mood to take a trip, ride it and you'll see why. The 82 is just a chaotic route to be honset. Someone said that the planners said they made a mistake. Here are some reasons, IMO, that the 82 is bad. I rode this route quite a few times so I know what I'm talking about.
1. Bunching and gaps are common
2. Long routes without LTD stop service usually do poorly servicewise
3. Not too much supervision
4. One depot alone can't handle this route a split is best(look at how the Q32 and B20 are able to run)
As to why the B82 does not have a limited stop service, I don't know anymore than you do but I assume that they had to choose between the 6 and 82, they thought the B6 was a better choice, maybe someone knows the exact answer.
Stepping away from those 2 routes, has anyone seen the B61? That bus in UNDERSERVED! That bus could use a increase in service, especially on weekdays(I dont know about ridership volume on weekends). Maybe they could take a few buses from the 35 and/or other routes.....Just a thought. Agree/disagree.
I agree the B 61 is underserved but to take it from the B 35 wrong answer. Eliminate or compromise an idea w/ the B 23, B 69, B 70, and B 71. Even give back the B 8/ B 68 or give B 9 to UP. Maybe we can work something there.
Those routes I have mentioned are routes that are in need of some serious help. Here are my ideas for them
B 23
I have talked about this before. replace the 16 Av portion and give it to the B 67, there will be no complains from Boro Park for lost service. You can even extend the B 67 to 86 St if needed. As for the Corteleyou Rd (to CI Av)portion alternative service is provided by B 103. Just replace B23 bus stops with B 103 bus stops (it would work better if MTA took over this route).
B 69
tough one but I am open for ideas...... combine with B 51w/ some changes (via Myrtle instead of Flushing)???? might be a bad idea.
B70
alt B 63 (5 Av) and B 8 (to VA HOSP)
B71
Do we need service past Grand Army Plz? It is useless route
Alt extend the B 14 or B 17 to Grand Army Plz
That is my thaught comments
Bringing the B8 or B68 back to UP would be great, where the routes were more reliable, even though the B8 has had a problem with gaps in service for a LONG TIME, even in UP.
B23: This route is a loser. Should be cut back to a weekday bus or give it a much needed boost to increase ridership. Should be extended via Beverley Rd to Nostrand Av for new connections to the B44,B49 and the 2/5 train. Good alternative to the B8 if you catch it.
B69: Leave it as is.
B70: Leave it as is.
B71: I thought of the same thing but then I was like "a ENY depot" bus route to Red Hook and a bus service via Eastern Parkway???? Doesn's sound so bad but people could use the trains unless they want to stay on the surface.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I agree if you can only catch it the B23 is a great alt. to the B 8. However I also thaught about an extension along Beverly to New York Av, the only thing about that the riderhip will not support that extension even if it was to happend. This route matter as well give to my original idea in my last post. The other alternative is increase ridership and see if that can improve the Corteleyou Rd bussiness district but as for 16 Av that I can't answer.
Going back to the B8, where do you think the bus bunching is problem starts at. I always figure two places: 1) Ave D/ Nostrand Av or 2) Foster/ Flatbush Avs. I don't know if you remember but the reason why the Bedford Av/ Flatbush Av bus stop (towards Bay Ridge) was eliminated was for the fact the delays it brought when it stops there at that intersection. Especially how the trafic lights are configurated. But if I would choice I would give it back to UP w/ B68 or give the B 9 to UP.
B69 needs improvements
B70 I am still don't understand why this route should not be discontinued. This is also a losser route
B71: I would replace with the B 14 or B 17 (ome would go for the B 14)
and for the same reasons. You do get a good amount of passengers in the AM Rush and middays to keep this route but to where it should be terminated. If I was to keep it going to Red hook, it would have to terminte at the B61 terminal and increase service. But I can see some busses terminating at Grand Army and a 20 min wait towards Red hook
Comments!!
"Going back to the B8, where do you think the bus bunching is problem starts at. I always figure two places: 1) Ave D/ Nostrand Av or 2) Foster/ Flatbush Avs. I don't know if you remember but the reason why the Bedford Av/ Flatbush Av bus stop (towards Bay Ridge) was eliminated was for the fact the delays it brought when it stops there at that intersection. Especially how the trafic lights are configurated. But if I would choice I would give it back to UP w/ B68 or give the B 9 to UP."
Actually, the bus stop that was eliminated at Bedford/Foster Av was towards Brookdale Hosp, not Bay Ridge it was eliminated like 7 or 8 years ago I think. Aww man, you don't know how many times I missed 41's because of that light an Flatbush Av. The Foster/Ocean Av light pattern is bad also, missed countless 49's that way and because of that it would get away so quickly. It bunches up because a lot of schools are near the B8 for weekdays but on weekends, that's kind of mysterious but those 2 intersections you mentioned they have bunches but its all over the route.
Its going to be a challenge to improve the B23. Needs a lot of help.
OPPS My back! you caught my error, thanks. I still to this day miss that bus stop. I always have to quickly cost Bedford and Flatbush while the respective lights are red. just to get to the B 8/ B 49 bus stop or even the B41 myself. in terms of the bunching yes I agree that on the weekdays that is because of the school days, but on the weekend it is a diffrent story. Observe the B 8 on the weekends, I live close to Foster so I know this for the fact. The weekend bunching is caused sometime early in the morning. I am going to observe the B 8 next weekend ot come up with a theory. Or maybe fellow bustalkers might know?
I also live near the B8 so I see this constantly. Just the other day, I had to wait 25 minutes for a B8 around 9:15PM when the bus is supposed to be every 12-15 minutes, only to see 2 buses 8100 and 817(I took the NF) run together. Yeah for some reason I liked that stop because I used to catch 41's that way although I mostly used the Flatbush stop. The traffic pattern is Flatbush longest, Bedford Av 2nd longest and Foster gets the shortest amount of time for traffic. Today, I saw 2 B8's in a row, 1 with a good crowd and 1 with NO PASSENGERS so I might have saved you from observing LOL. Why/how they bunch is really mysterious because most of the time they don't be jam packed.
daytime bunching is due to horrendous double parking on 18th av. that has been the case for 20 years if not more.
I say extend the B14 to GAP. As for 3/4 trains, the B45 duplicate it from Utica to Boro Hall.
The B20 is split with FP and ENY, however FP is the true owner because ENY only does a smaller portion of it. Plus FP uses more buses for it.
I know that the B20's main depot is FP. I think the ENY buses are thrown in to help with 20's that short turn at the Broadway Junction train station.
I personally want to know what board is in charge of route planning and scheduling (in the MTA). And who is in charge? Just out of curioisity. (I might have to get me a job there they "need" my help and other fellow bustalkers..) I AM REALLY SERIOUS !!
For NYC Transit:
Norman C. Silverman
Senior Director
Route & System Planning
130 Livingston Street, 3rd Floor
Brooklyn NY 11201
David
Thanx...
Then come back and show us the error of our ways, or stop carping from the sidelines.
David
1. I'm no expert in CNG tanks, but my understanding is that when they puncture the gas simply goes pfffft into the air. The tanks are outside, so the gas won't get concentrated inside a building.
2. Yes, long routes tend to be less reliable than short ones. The two pairings cited (B82 and B47) were done for economic reasons -- not the best reasons, I know, but valid ones nonetheless.
3. Despite the increased running time associated with them, articulated buses have saved millions of dollars in personnel costs for Operators and Maintainers, while providing additional seat-miles. New York City seems to be the only place on the planet where people complain about articulated buses.
4. As with articulated buses, the longer express buses save on operating and maintenance costs. Moreover, express riding is one-way...there are very few cases where there are both entries AND exits at a given stop (some, yes, but not many). Further, the MCIs WERE used in local service on September 11, 2001, the most "emergency" situation in my lifetime, and I'm 36 years old.
5. What's wrong with improving monitoring of adjacent bus routes by bringing them to a common terminal?
6. The F shuttle stop was a temporary stop -- the F shuttle goes away when Stillwell F service resumes (at least that's the way it's supposed to work). As to "unsafe," that's a matter of opinion -- strong enough in the community to generate a change -- but opinion. I've yet to see any substantiation of that opinion by anyone, "Barry," residents, police, ANYONE. And the term should be "not secure," not "unsafe," since safety has to do with danger from traffic and such and security has to do with fear of crime.
7. The F shuttle bus DOES match service at one bus per train. I don't recall any promise to operate one bus per train on the B68.
David
that is good. ive rode this bus once going to csrea to plan my retirement. it took forever to get down canal street. however a 90 year old man got on and he could not possibly ride the subway . this bus route serves a lot of seniors.
By the way I do not believe that they should eliminate the B-51. If anything extend it
1- In Manhattan extend the B-51 from City Hall to Battery Park City
2- In Brooklyn extend it from Smith Street/Fulton Mall to the Flatbush Avenue LIRR Station
I also do not believe that any route should be eliminated.
Or I am saying is that the TA's mentality is to heck with buses when you can use the subway.
My View- They do not know what they are doing
Thank You
I agree, they DO NOT know what they are doing. Lately, the B51 has become a very important route, especially since the Manhattan Bridge work. People could use it as a alternative to Grand St rather than taking the F to B'way-Lafayette then waiting for the shuttle, but the headways now kind of limits that.
Instead of having those overpriced "dummies" who plans these things to please themselves and care about paychecks before moving passengers, just hire some/"all" of us Bustalkers and we would do a far better job ANY DAY! I'd even work for free(Ok I may want a salary ;-) but I'm sticking to my word about working for free) if that's what it takes to improve our system.
Why complain about something happening when it's not happening?
Again:
NYC TRANSIT HAS NO PLANS WHATSOEVER TO ELIMINATE THE B51.
Count on it.
David
Leave the b51 alone!! They need to expand that bus route on weekend !
Who is "madision" telling to leave the B51 alone? The people who ARE leaving the B51 alone? What's the point here?
David
Reading comprehension, or lack thereof, I suppose.
I believe you on that, it would make no sense whatsoever. Did the B51 use to run on weekends? If not, it would be valuable now.
The B51 has never run on weekends.
David
Thanx for the info.
I believe it should be expanded to weekends and run laer on weekdays because it would be valuable and since Grand St is nearby people coming from Brooklyn won't have to take the F to B-way Lafayette then take the shuttle.
Two things:
1. Hardly anyone is riding the B51 middays (I have seen recent ridership numbers, and they're down), which does not bode well for weekend service prospects since midday and weekend ridership patterns are similar systemwide.
2. How many people are traveling from Brooklyn to Broadway-Lafayette via the F and then transferring to the Grand Street Shuttle train? From what I hear, they can almost be counted on one finger.
David
[NYC TRANSIT HAS NO PLANS WHATSOEVER TO ELIMINATE THE B51. Count on it.]
This whole back-and-forth reminds me of the former City Councilmember from Washington Heights: As part of every re-election campaign, he would circulate a petition begging Transit not to discontinue to M98. Of course, he KNEW there was never any such plan; he just wanted to pretend to "save" the route and play the hero.
I'm guessing that the same motivation is at work with this B51 thing.
Im trying to figure out where each Suffolk Bus is assigned and to what depot operates what lines. For example, i know that Inter-County Coach in Babylon operates the S23 and S29 and that EPT bus Lines operates the S1. Can anyone give me a roster info, thanks.
First off --- EBT operates the s-1. Its a division of Education Bus Transportation - hence the EBT
Not a complete roster of carriers but
1 - EBT
2 - ICMC
3 - Suffolk Bus
4 - Hampton Jitney
There may be other contractors but its a start
Don't forget Sunrise Motor Coach
I seem to recall the following from my few rides around Suffolk County:
S1, S31: Educational Bus Transportation
S40: Babylon Bus
S54: Inter-County Motorcoach
S60, S61, S62: Coram Bus Lines
10A, 10B, 10C, 10C, 10E: Hampton Jitney
Also, the H4, H6, and H9A/H9B pretty much function as County routes with the Town of Huntington as the contractor.
HART is NOT a county contractor. Huntington Area Rapid Transit is owned and operated by the Town of Huntington as indicated on the sides of their vehicles. They have a different color scheme and a seperate garage. All employees of HART are considered Town of Huntington employees and have all civil service and union benefits of other municipal employees. Should one of their buses breakdown, they cannot "borrow" a bus from a Suffolk Transit Contractor.
Also all the routes operate within the township, with the small exception for the turnaround in Commack thru the Target / King Kullen Shopping Center.
Also IIRC there is some affiliation between Babylon Bus & ICMC.
That's the way a lot of TAs are set up; the drivers and staff are town employees, especially at smaller ones, unless it's a case like ours, where everyone wants a union. In that case, they are managed by First Transit or a similar company.
-F.
New York State is broken down into counties. Within each county there are either Towns, Cities, or incorporated villages. In Nassau County there is a County Government, three Towns (Hempstead, North Hempstead and Oyster Bay) each with an elected Supervisor, two Cities (Glen Cove and Long Beach) also with an elected Supervisor (not a mayor) and Villages ( Hempstead and Great Neck to name a few) each with a Mayor. Yes, there is a Hempstead Village ( with Mayor James Garner) inside of Hempstead Town ( with Supervisor Richard Guardino).
Suffolk County is set-up the same way except that I don't think that there are any cities.
HART is run by the town of Huntington with the drivers being municipal employees. Suffolk Transit ( a county agency ) contracts with private companies to provide coverage on County Routes, some of which do go into Huntington Town. While the drivers for the Suffolk Transit may be unionized, I don't know if there is any prohibition from telling them to go drive a school bus as an overtime run....Huntington Town ( I don't believe ) can tell a Hart driver that he/she will drive a town truck or some other vehicle for overtime.
The 10D and 10E are opersted by a differnt company. Not Hampton Jitney. Trust me.
I think it's Sunrise Motor Coach
D.
The S-40 & 61 routes are Suffolk Bus Corporation routes. They come from the Moffit Blvd Yard in Bayshore and Pond Road Yard in Bohemia. Oh they are about finshed with our new maintance building at Pond Road. The mechanics got buses in it already!
D.
Hey folks; just a quick note to let you know I have found a NABI low floor bus model. It is in 1:50 ("O" scale) and is in SMBL "Big Blue Bus" livery with fleet no. 4001. If anyone is interested, it is available as-is in excellent shape or custom painted to your liking. Hope to hear from you soon!
-Fred
REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much is it? How can I get it? Is it possible for me to have it painted in MTA NYCT Colors with fleet #9340 (even though in the current roster, it's a 1995 NovaBUS RTS T80-206 suburban) instead of #4001? Can you e-mail me with some details?
Cleanairbus
carlwal@hotmail.com
if you want one of your own..let me know. i have one. for sale.
i got the same model. ;-)
So I see; it's surely a neat model. I plan to make a NABI 416 in HO scale soon, so keep your eyes peeled. The first one is tentatively to be a Baltimore MTA, unless another request comes up for that one.
-F.
Santa Monica was selling them for five bucks apiece. They don';t have any more.
AND--they are cast in the ugly blue to match SMBBB's paint -- with a very glossy black "something" (no paint remover or thinner would touch the ones I have done) on the windows. Whatever the material is, it doesn't like to hold any other paint. In other words, they are a bitch to custom repaint.
I don't know who made them (but they did come from China) -- but the rear end if totally wrong. There are only three taillamps on either side instead of four as on the model. And those square and oblong "hatches"?? Not there on a NABI. There is a large grille back there on the 40LFW LNG buses as Santa Monica and Orange County have. The front end isn't correct, either, but it isn't too far off. They made three headlights instead of two on either side; the corner piece is the only turn signal on the real buses. And the side grilles and hatches at the rear simply are NOT there on the SMBBB or OCTA buses. There are small 9"x9" flush hatch covers to access the gas shutoff valves. The rooftop air conditioners are also totally wrong -- too "shallow" and rounded compared to the real buses.
Like I said above, I don't know who made them, but they are not very accurate models. They have the basic shape and that's about it.
I've already custom painted half a dozen them for Orange County where I drive the real ones every day.
Steve, the one I have actually has the four lights on each side in back; thank you for the warning on the windows. I will be especially careful around that area should I paint this one. The headlight area is more or less an optical illusion; I began to think the same thing about the configuration, but it all depends on how you look at it.
As far as model accuracy goes, once again, you and I both know there is not a lot out there for us busnuts, so we really have to take what we can get. On that note, I say it's good enough for my house! :)
-F.
>>> they are cast in the ugly blue to match SMBBB's paint <<<
I don't think I have ever seen a SMBBB NABI in service. Do they have very many?
Tom
Big Blue's NABIs are low-floor LNG models. They have been in service since about May. I am not sure of the exact quantity (I want to say around 40) but I can tell you that they are numbered in the 4000 series.
>>> They have been in service since about May <<<
That explains why I haven't seen them, I last rode SM buses in April. I have had a car since June, so now I just drop into Santa Monica territory for a few minutes from a freeway once every three months and don't see many of their buses.
Tom
They were actually delivered in December, 2001 and January 2002. They had many factory installed defects, as did ours down in Orange County. So they sat until NABI worked ont he problems. I was at SMBBB in April and they hadn't run in revenue service yet.
When I was at their yard earlier this year there were a few dozen of them. Not sure of the exact number....I thought I heard 67 but don't take that as the exact number.
I have heard they have 37, but that may be incorrect also.
I can't find the posting but someone asked about the new buses that are coming to replace their Thomasbuilt crap... 10 Orions (unknown model) have been ordered for January delivery and expect to order 10 more shortly thereafter....
This has been happening to my mom for the last week so far. Ive tried to complain to the 1-888-NYCT-BUS # with the information but no call back. here is what happened:
My mom gets on the B1 going from Kingsborough College around 3pm tuesday and thursday. Typically, 5 b1 buses leave at the same time. Most are crowded. the one my mom is on is not. She gets the same driver every time. The driver's bus isnt that crowded. When people are rining the bell to get off, the driver stops at the stop. When my mom tried to get off, TWICE HE DID NOT STOP! The bell was rung and the bus wasnt crowded. The number on the B1 my mom had was #9323 on tuesday. I told her to get the run # as well and to complain to the dispatcher if it happens again.
Don't get me wrong. I know the B1 is crowded and i normally praise Ulmer Park buses and drivers-but this is annoying. Is there anything else my mom can do?
When you say "twice he did not stop", can you elaborate on that a little better? Do you mean he passed two stops before letting out your mother or did this happen on two separate occasions? Is your mother ringing the bell at least two blocks in advance or is she waiting until he about to pass the stop before she rings the bell? If the bell is rung at the last second, for safety reasons the bus operator will not stop short and proceed to the next bus stop. Secondly, bus operators pass stops when the bell has been rung all the time. It's called a mistake. I've done it quite a few times myself when I was a bus operator. Passing the stop twice for the same person I would call a coincidence. Unless you feel there is a reason why he may be doing this on purpose, like a prior argument with the operator, that kind of complaint will not go anywhere, unless many other people are calling in the same type of complaint, which you implied does not seem to happen.
BIG AL
I finally got the Sept. 2002 edition today while I rode the B41 home from school. Shows all the bus extensions/route combinations and a few color changes as well. B43 and 74 are no longer red, B57 is no longer orange but that's all I'm going to say. Whenever you other bustalkers get them, have fun comparing it to the 2/02 edition.
Please take a look at the description for B41. It hasn't matched where the route really goes for some time.
Michael
Washington, DC
Tommorow when I try the B47 for the first time, I'll look for the new map.
Today I was officially asked if I want to transfer to Queens Division. It seems EVERYBODY on the list ahead of me turned it down. Respectfully, I turned it down also. While overall I would rather work in Queens, the problem is there is very little or no movement for supervision. I now have about 25 dispatchers behind me in Brooklyn with another 8 slated to come in very shortly. In under 1 year I have already acomplished what dispatchers in Queens, who have been on the job for 10 years, have never seen the likes of, picking a schedule with Sat & Sun off. Also, I have the ability to work out of any depot of my choosing, or working in the Command Center while in Queens I would be locked into one depot for the rest of my career, the same way the bus operators are locked in. Yet another option I have is to pick off on holidays, something I would never be able to do for years to come in Queens. In a civil service job, seniority is the name of the game and the ability to pick your own fate is what counts the most.
So it looks like Brooklyn Division will be my permanent home now, unless more advancements are on the horizon.
BIG AL
Sounds like a good choice to me. Why are dispatchers and B/O's in the Queens Division so limited in their assignments?
Wayne
[Why are dispatchers and B/O's in the Queens Division so limited in their assignments?]
For bus operators, it's because the ATU contract treats the depots as distinct operating authorities which must be kept separate at all costs. That means that drivers can't switch depots EVEN IF A ROUTE IS MOVED.
Actually, back in 1996, a dela was struck and a precedent set whereby a select number of Queens Village Depot bus operators (10 I believe, IIRC) were "loaned" to Jamaica Depot. These operators were slotted in seniority order, and NOT placed at the bottom of the Jamaica Depot seniority list.
Subsequently, because Jamaica had more work, these operators opted to remain at Jamaica on a permanent basis. Today, these operators have "more seniority" than those who remain at Queens Village with seniority in the area of their previous pegs by virtue of the influx of additional operators assigned to Jamaica Depot as opposed to Queens Village.
BTW- Big Al, sorry to hear you won't be coming to Queens. However, reading your other postings, I'm happy to know "they haven't gotten to you" yet :-)
I'm sure you know that management has refused to allow the Queens Division SLD's a fall pick based on the prior fall refusal. There's tension and animosity here right now. Maybe it's best you avoid the conflict.
Best wishes.
Actually Brooklyn67, you are half right about the bus operator transfers. The first batch of 10, at the bottom of the Q.V. peg list left the depot in Sept. 1995 with 4 going to C.S. depot and 6 going to Jamaica depot. I was among the 6 people. Of the 6 that went to Jamaica, one quit to become a school teacher however had he stayed, his plans were to stay put at Jamaica depot. Two came back to Q.V. and three stayed at Jamaica. Once again, I was among the three. That was the very first batch that ever did a transfer like that. One year later the same transfer happened again. This is the one you are discussing. The only difference was all 10 went to Jamaica depot. Once again, these operators were at the bottom of the Q.V. list and went to the bottom of the Jamaica list. Also, they picked up seniority very quickly, since Jamaica depot has a much faster turnover of operators than Q.V. and most, if not all of them decided to stay at Jamaica. As you said, they have more seniority now at Jamaica than if they had went back to Q.V., however they were not put in a division type seniority order at Jamaica since they really had no seniority at all anyway.
BIG AL
good choice big al. i hate to see the good dispatchers leave the b`klyn division.
At what Depot do you work @ or routes do you book of, and @ what loaction.
Robert
At what Depot do you work @ or routes do you book for, and @ what loaction.
Robert
It's has not been my day for miss spelled work today. sorry for the two posts.
At what Depot do you work @ or routes do you book for, and @ what loaction.
Robert
It's has not been my day for miss spelled words today. sorry for the two posts.
BLX worked as a dispatcher both in Brooklyn (Fresh Pond,Command Center in ENY) & Queens. Right now, seniority in Queens is at a standstill. That's because all of the tier 1 & 2 dispatchers have just about all retired. Big Al stays in Brooklyn and has many choices. Also, with the new GM & AGM in Queens, there seems to be a moral change among the troops. Queens can practically run itself. Get the people to the 7 train (Floo-shing) or the IND (Jamaica) in the a.m., pick up the school kids between 2 & 4pm and then bring the people home from the subway til about 730pm. That's it, day is done.
Make too many changes, road calls go up, sick calls go up, MDBF goes down, etc. Sit tight Al, you got a good President of your union (SSSA), Tony (the Guru) Gammone. He's going to fight for everyone. No special deals. The Guru was the voice of the 530a-130p command center base radio from 86' til he was elected a few years ago. Any Disp., Supt., GM, AGM in maintenance or transportation who wanted action called the Guru. The voice on the p.m. side, also for many years was Pete (Space Base) Evans. Pete opted to bow out of radio broadcasting and chose to work the p.m. General at Fr Pond. Is that bar still right by the depot? You walk down the steps from the depot 2nd floor and walk about 10 yards and your in the bar (when BLX worked there, it was 'The Ponder Inn'). Blx loves you.
Yes, from what I have been hearing, Queens has quite a few problems right now. There is alot of tension between the sld's and management. But it doesn't end just there. I just heard today even the superintendents are unhappy and would like to go to other divisions. They are being forced to work 12 hour days for the same salary as the standard 8 hours while the supts in the other divisions work the normal 8 hours. BLX is correct when he says most of the tier 1 and 2 sld's have retired in Queens. Half the sld's in Jamaica were bus operators when I was one and right now will be around for another 15 years minimum. The same can be said for Q.V. Years ago, everybody wanted to make a mad dash to transfer to Queens Div. Now, most people, not counting bus operators, want to avoid it which is truly unprecedented.
I know Tony, our SSSA president in Brooklyn. As you said he is very good and will talk with you if you call him at 3am. I must admit I am very content in Brooklyn. We have very good superintendents and I get along with all of them. I also get along very well with the bus operators. All though it would have been nice to just jump in my car and drive 10 minutes to either Jamaica or Q.V. depots, I know I would have been kicking myself in the head for the long run with no movements in sight.
BIG AL
i guess you meant morale blx. i wont go into the morals of any b/o, sld,supt here. was that bar a naughty place. anyway big al i went to sld on 7/5/88. i was #3 in the class. i thought wow ill get the best. well they offered flatbush, eny,126, and qv and jamaica. #1 guy takes flatbush. i live in si so queens out of question. worked eny area as welfare caseworker. so i pick 126. well commute terrible. i try nj as well as vz bridges. break down in my chevette on fdr at midnite in rainstorm in middle lane,take m15 to depot. i going back to b/o i tell wifey. she say stick it out. my pay cut 6000 dollars per annum. i get change of assignment one day work 3pm-11pm so another guy can have nightoff. they say now want me back 5am.i say i live in si. they say tough you took coa. i still going to stick it out.then they come to my post at 96st 1st ave.qc 5pm guy sick. order me to work trick. i say going sick call lo 726. sld career ends in 5 weeks.(8/20/88)
I believe the bar is still there. I worked the change booth a few months ago. I remember a bar on that little street under the station from the garage to Fresh Pond Road. It may not be "The Powder Room". But there is a bar there and I was surprised it was so close to the depot.
I have a few questions reguarding NJ Transit's 1994 Flxible METRO "D" series and MTA NYCT RTS that has the Cummins M-11 engine.
1. These buses use a ZF transmission. What series is it?
2. Is it a 3, 4 or 5 speed?
3. Any thoughts on how fast it could go?
4. Are any of them starting or have develope the noise like the Novas?
5. For the ones that have a Detroit Diesel series 50 and perhaps with the combo of an Allison transmission. How fast can it go and is it a 3, 4, or 5 speed?
One or a few of MTA's NYCT RTS has a Cummins M-11 engine. How is compared to the common series 50 engine of Detroit Diesel.?
Thank you for your information. Have a good day!
-Ronnie
I thought that the NJT Flxible METRO-D's had the Cummins C8.3
NYCT has 10 Nova RTS with the Cummins M-11 (9140-9149).
Wayne
The NJT Flxible Metro D's do have the C8.3 (though 1966-1975 actually have the DDC 50). The tranny is a ZF 5HP590 5 speed automatic; it's a similar powertrain compared to the Novas.
In addition to Ex-QSC 231, another former NYC RTS has been sighted in Philly, in fact it is an ex NYCT bus. The bus had the giveaway MTA paint scheme (sans MTA ID and number), and a spot on the rear left side of the bus where the TA put its QC Sticker identifying the depot it ran out of. I think is was on the "Park Towne Place" shuttle bus. This route runs from the apartment complex (on the Ben Franklin Pkwy) to City Hall and the Market St Shopping area. This bus runs rather frequently through downtown Philly, so if I can get a good look at it, I`ll give out some more detail.
On the same note but in a different location, there are two ex-NYCT RTS coaches to be found on Route 1A in Warwick, RI, across from the Shaw's shopping center, for those familiar with the area. One has been re-done as a limousine coach, with a white-and-black paint scheme; the other still wears its NYCT blue-and-white colors. The owner-operator, IIRC, is an outfit called Dot Com Limo-Coach.
C
I also saw that same bus today (10/17) in Philly. I'll also try to find out exactly which ex-NYCT vehicle it is. The remains of the former NYCT number seem to be faintly visible on the rear of the RTS, & that number should be easy to make out in sunlight.
The Park Towne Place shuttle also runs another RTS which is ex-Rochester, NY #847. The destination sign (electronic) on that bus apparently still contains the Rochester system readings as it has read "FAIRPORT" (a Rochester suburb) since that bus started running here.
There is another apartment complex, The Philadelphian, which also runs its own shuttle bus in Center City Philly. That run is the current stomping ground of ex-QSC #231 as well as sometimes, ex-NYCT #1493.
Michael B.
The Park Towne Place shuttle also runs another RTS which is ex-Rochester, NY #847. The destination sign (electronic) on that bus apparently still contains the Rochester system readings as it has read "FAIRPORT" (a Rochester suburb) since that bus started running here.
I was trying to figure out where that mystery RTS was from. For some odd reason, I had suspected it was ex-Norwalk, Ct. (Wheels). That said, I doubt that the sign controls are still in tact, so the sign may very well be frozen on "FAIRPORT".
WOW...you guys have an apartment complex big enough to facilitate a shuttle bus? I wish we had one where I live....I'm about three country miles away from our TA's nearest stop!
-F.
Here in Philly, there are several apartment complexes that run their own shuttle buses. On the Parkway, Park Towne Place, 2601 Parkway, and the Philadelphian all run shuttle buses to downtown. These shuttle buses are far superior than using SEPTA. Park Towne PL uses RTS's, 2601 uses a Champion cutaway (ran by Krapf's ), and the Philadelphian uses a Blue Bird (ran by the Philadelphia Trolley Works). In all of these cases the shuttle buses are provided as an amenity to these pricey apartments.
Where I live at in New Jersey, four complexes provide shuttle bus service either to the city, or in my complex, to the PATCO line. They are the Towers at Windsor Park, Haddonview, Cooper River Plaza and, The Parkview (my apt complex.) For years a company called Burlington County Transit provided virtually all of the shuttle services to these complexes with used New Looks, often ex-SEPTA or NJT units, or from other cities. A few years ago, BCT used a 35 ft Flxible with high-backed "Express Seats", on some runs they used ex-NYBS new-looks. Until my complex changed hands, we used a variety of buses like Prevosts and Suburban T8H-5308's on our run into Philly. The company was D& B Tours. The company lost the contract when the apartment complex changed hands, and the owner of the company died in an accident. Now we have a little cutaway to provide shuttle service to the PATCO station. The other apartment complexes now use a company based in Westmont - Family Limosine - which uses a variety of buses from a cutaway, to a Thomas, and a MC-9.
Can we ride these buses for free?
No. You must have an apartment complex issued ID to ride these buses.
I believe the ex-NYC RTS may be 1436, which has been down in Philadelphia for quite some time, unless this is a different RTS than the one we're talking about (I hadn't seen it in a while, but I think it's 1436).
For those who might be interested....saw 3965 in service on the Q46 this morning, westbound at Springfield Boulevard, at about 8:25 A.M.
OMG! I saw 3965 on the Q88 the other day!
But I forgot to tell you. :p
What's the shock? The other day I saw 3474 on the M2 Limited.
#3474 M2
Don't be so shocked!! I saw 3919 on the B38 and 3997(not sure of route because it was parked) yesterday running out of Fresh Pond depot
So I saw 3987 today going down Palmetto St., FP probably wants to make their riders feel miserable.
And I also saw an above view ENY's 4408 from the new & rebuilt Flushing Av. station on the J/M/Z line through the metal gate, it was on the B15.
3474 was on the M3 Friday.
Still going. It's the energizer bus-lol.
#3474 M3
what about 1852. i drove it in ulmer park and yukon. and dont foget 3469 and 3489.
Plus you still have 3669, 4014 (of ENY), 3919, 3921, 3986, 3987, 3997 (of FP), 4116, 4120,4300-4302 and some 4400's (of FB)
3669 not on glenns current roster.
I don't know what the big deal is here. I book a 3900 bus almost everyday when I book the B20 at Pennsylvania and New Lots from 12pm-2pm.
BIG AL
these 3900s will probably be around a long time since there still have been no new bus deliveries. i saw queens favorite 3941 on victory blvd yesterday. it has seen better days.
This morning while coming off the upper leve of the VZ Bridge, noticed RTS 2606 broken down on the side of the Gowanus, with what I believe was a MTA repair truck helping it. I thought this was privately owned and was part of the picture company located in the former homeport. Am I correct?
Also sighted Orion V 127 and 131 in express service this morning. Both were heading back to SI.
127 was signed Not In Service
131 was on the X3.
Did Yukon have MCI problems???
Also, I have noticed that buses that previously had the floor cut for the farebox no longer have a cut, but a full floor, and the vacuum hole above the floor, and new metal on the steps. Are they doing this to all the MCIs like that?
Wasn't 127 at MCH? Guess it went back home.
#127 X17
Saw 5506 on the M23 today. I thought that this bus was either at 126 or GH. Had MJQ Stickers on it.
Then, while walking up Madison Ave, I saw 2606 parked on the corner of 30 St with the engine cover up. The plate on the bus said Dealer. On the corner of 31 St on Madison, there was filming of a show/movie. There was a mock model of a MTA RTS. The number was 2501 however it appeared to be a 30 foot bus and not the original 40 footer and in an unusal looking BX Scheme. I wonder why they mocked a 30 footer instead of getting a 40 footer from storage and using that for the shoot?
#4519 M2
#5506 M23
That bus (#2501) was probably in the "Canon" commerical! In the commerical, they did not show the entire bus but who knows!
bus is now owned by a private company and appears in many tv commercials. perhaps mta bridge and tunnel pushed it off vz bridge. nyct does not lease buses for movie shoots or tv commercials. picture cars ltd supplies rts buses formerly owned by nyct for these purposes. nyct 1576 seen on law and order is owned by them or another similar outfit. it is the private co. responsibility to repair or tow the bus.
While growing up in Canarsie during the 60's and 70's the B17 and B42 used Flatbush. Why and when were they moved to ENY?
Gary,
The B-17 and B-42 were transferred to East New York in 1987 from Flatbush because the TA was to renovate Flatbush at that time.
It was suppose to last until the fall of 1988.
Need I say it its sure been a long year
Thank You
I took the Greyhound from Providence to NYC yesterday, taking the 3.30 am (schedule 3413) bus outbound and the 6.30 pm (3482) back. I'm posting because the outbound trip took a divergent routing from the last couple times I've made this trip. The last two times I've taken Greyhound to NYC, the buses have gone 95 to 287 to 87 to Maj Deegan Expwy, then down through Harlem to Port Authority. Both trips were on weekends. Yesterday, the routing was a little different: we crossed the GW Bridge into NJ, headed down 95 through the Meadowlands, then took the Lincoln Tunnel into Manhattan. I'm curious whether this is the standard weekday routing for Greyhound buses, or whether this was a detour made for traffic reasons (we arrived about a half-hour late)? I was half-asleep, so I wasn't alert enough to notice any obvious cause for a detour if it was one. Anybody know Greyhound routes well?
In other notes, the outbound equipment was a D4500, IIRC #1029; coming back it was an MC-12, #2881, IIRC. I did catch an NYCT RTS on the M3; I forget the unit number but I think it was in the 8000s. I also took the PATH train over to Hoboken to try the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, which I hadn't been on yet. Real nice! I was short for time so I only took a brief ride, as far as Exchange Terr. along the JC waterfront, but it's a nice system.
Chris
I'm pretty sure Greyhound's #1029 is a 102D3. As far as routing... I was under the impression that they didn't have a set route since. I can recall many Greyhound & Trailways buses taking different routes. I always thought it was a drivers' preference, what they're most familiar with, and avoiding traffic. On your trip that went into NJ - I can't imagine why the B/O wouold do that other than a major traffic going into Manhattan from The Bronx crossings and/or something going on in Manhatttan. Also - maybe that B/O being creative to avoid as much Manhattan driving as possible.
Wayne
The trip via GW Bridge/NJ Turnpike/Lincoln Tunnel is actually the prescribed route because it's all highway ti the PABT. Peter Pan does this all the time. But drivers have a number of variables they are allowed to take because of the unpredictable traffic conditions.
Returning from Boston a few years ago, we got off the New Englanf Thruway/95 section of the Bruckner, came down Baychester Avenue, then down the 278 leg of the Bruck, crossed the Third Avenue Bridge into manhattan, came down 2nd Ave to 125th, then 5th Ave to the 79th St Central Park crossover, then down 9th to the PABT. Why? Accident on the Cross Bronx. We actually arrived 25 minutes ahead of schedule.
You took a Greyhound bus through the 79th Street Transverse? That must have been interesting...
It was an MC-12, so it didn't have the extra 4 inches of height of the Ds. Driver had obviously done it before, because he didn't slow down or flinch for the underpasses.
When we got into the PABT, I jokingly asked him if Hound gets upset when runs come in early (this was a Boston-NYC non-stop). He shrugged and said "Nahhh. Besides, I need to catch another bus home, and I can make the next one out now."
drivers are given a route sheet. however, they can go whatever way they want to ...just as long as they service the cities and pick up/discharge people to where that schedule goes to.
From Los Angeles-Compton,Ca for example :
-Right 7th St
-Right 5 frwy onramp southbound
-Right 710 frwy southbound
-Right Compton Blvd
-Right Willowbrook Ave ... and proceed to transit ctr
Another way drivers like to go is to take Alameda Blvd all the way. Much simpler but yet its just about the same length of travel time
GLID4500
>>> But drivers have a number of variables they are allowed to take because of the unpredictable traffic conditions. <<<
Here in the west there are often not many alternative routes (other than small detours) that a bus can take between two cities. In the east are drivers kept informed of traffic problems ahead by radio so they can take alternative routes?
Tom
How can the greyhound drivers are so familar with the roads in different city/town across the 50 states?
Greyhound drivers don't do all 50 states.
There are no Greyhound routes in Hawaii or Alaska, for one thing.
Drivers stay in their own region for the second thing, unless they are working charters.
Correctamundo on 1029 being a 102D3.
Greyhound DOES have published street-by-street routings for their drivers touse -- BUT -- drivers are allowed to use their own discretion to avoid traffic, construction, etc. Only problem is, if something goes wrong, the driver takes the brunt of it if NOT on the published route.
That's right; the 10xx series are all DL3s. I rode back on the final leg of a trip to Grand Rapids, MI on no. 1012. Quite a switch after getting spoiled riding all of those MC-12s beforehand.
Also, in Michigan, a few of their buses start with "MI" (i.e. MI0037, etc.) and from Kalamazoo, I was switched over to Indian Trails for the rest of one way to GR. They run Van Hool Le Mirage IIs; VERY nice buses. Plush purple seats and plenty of glass; I felt like a rock musician in this thing. Even the bathroom trash can was carpeted. Overall, VERY nice bus. First Van Hool I ever rode!
Since when did GLI start subcontracting to other companies on their timetables? This is different. Never seen this happen before!
-F.
Oops...I meant Prevost. I have been up since 4 AM and will not be back home to sleep until 10:00 tomorrow morning. Oy.
-F.
Thanks to all who replied. I'm sure you're right that it's a 102D(L?)3 instead of a D4500/01; I'm not real attuned to the differences between the models (what exactly are they besides badging and age?) and it was dark when I left.
C
Well... I can start you off.
A couple of things are: The older model designation 102D3 - it was 102=width, D=series, 3=number of axles. The 102D3 became the D4000 which is a 40-foot long bus. The D4500/01 are 45-footers and the old model designation is 102DL3. When MCI started producing 45-foot buses the "L" was added to the model designation.
After the MC-9... MCI introduced several new models in the early 80's. They were:
96A2 - 96 inches wide, 2 axles
102A2 - 102 inches wide, 2 axles
96A3 - 96 inches wide, 3 axles
102A3 - 102 inches wide, 3 axles
Later MCI introduced the 102C3. The 102C3 looked nearly identical to a 102A3. The differences were... It was a bit taller, the destination sign was moved from the position in the center above the windshield to the driver's portion of the windshield. 102D3 also had the option of having no stainless steel siding. The 102C3 later became the 102D3.
Wayne
I saw a replica trolley on the 92 this afternoon at the Barnes and Noble at the corner of Bethesda and Woodmont Avenues, number 5299. I wonder who is operating it since these had been assigned to Silver Spring and ATE had been doign the route for the past month.
Also, I saw a 4000 series Orion on the T2 yesterday and Ford Cutaway 5206 was on the 36 this morning. Finally, 5591 was on the 47 and is still displaying MONTGOMERY MALL stacked on the front sign, then flippping to BETHESDA. This is the only 2001-2002 Orion V that Ride-On has that I have seen stack the text. When these Orions have been on the 38, they have MONTGOMERY MALL all on one line, as do the 5100 series cutaways.
Two weeks since my last Metro ride, I hope they get this guy soon...
University of Maryland used to have one of those goofy looking replicas too. I was lucky enough to never have a route or charter that called for that tank. I rode on one of the Bethesda 8 replicas last year sometime. They'd be nice for taking tour groups around or even having a wedding precession with it, but not really good for transit service.
I hope they catch this animal too, but now with those bad witness accounts, it will make it harder. I was wondering why the tv trucks were back at Seven Corners today. The cadets were across the way at a school and in the shopping center across the street doing all sorts of things. I pass by there every day to work and Tuesday was freaky the day after that poor lady was killed.
I have all these things I want to do over the weekend, but I have my g/f telling me to stay in and blah blah blah. I'm trying to get in a couple of bus rides, but we'll see what the next couple of days bring.
The Bethesda 8 replicas are not all that bad for promotions. They were going to use one like it for a downtown CBD service which would be run by the Downtown DC group and probably operated by WMATA. I don't know what became of the idea.
To have a promotional bus for certain routes such as the 92 and 28 is not a bad idea.
I haven't read all the news yet but I am hoping they get something. In theory, every time the sniper shoots, he runs the risk of getting closer to being caught. Someone told me some are saying that he may not strike until people begin to let down their guard again. I am not fretting over not having been on the Metro in two weeks but being stuck in doors most of the time is not fun (although I am not one to like the weather we have been having the past week, how much longer until spring?).
Another thing is people are hopefully becoming more alert and attuned to their surroundings, so that for future sniper attacks they may look for the source of the shots and and license plates instead of focusing on the victim. I expect they'll get this guy sooner or later; hopefully sooner.
C
I'm noticing some of the LI Bus Orion CNG's, the older Cummins powered ones are starting to leak in the rain, usually around the rear of the bus. Almost all our remaining diesel Orion V's leak in the rain as well.
I've also seen the older NYCT RTS have leaks too. When a bus develops a leak, I assume that there must be a hole in the roof somewhere. If so, they are fixable.
Since Orions are made crappy IMHO, I would assume NYCT is also having similar problems with their older Orions as well. Personally I have never rode an NYCT Orion in rainy weather, but I assume this happens as well.
It's not the roof that leaking. The 3 major leak spots for any bus are: 1) the windows. Usually at the top dripping down on the seats.
2) the destination signs. Again at the top, dripping into the operators lap!
3) rear climate control panel over rear seats. Rain gets into the rear black outside grilles, then drips into the interior grilles over the back seats.
Most people will tell you leaks on any vehicle are a pain in the you-know-what to fix. After you seal it, or you think you seal it, you never know if it is finally fixed until the next big rain. Just to find it still leaks. I usually wrote up buses that leaked, but never really knew if they were working on them to fix the leak or not. All I knew the same buses I wrote up were still leaking. I had some Chrysler cars that leaked water under the dash on my feet. I tried to have the leaks fixed on several occasions. I finally gave up. Just kept leaking. My 85 Trans-Am leaked from the driver's side t-top also. I conveniently forgot to mention that to the person I sold it to! My Lexus currently leaks in the trunk. New gasket on trunk lid installed, no help. Put weather seal around the tail lights. Still a puddle back there! I give up.
BIG AL
one major area for leaks on the windows are the hinges that the windows swing out on. when you take an rts through the bus wash you`ll see water seeping through the top of the windows right by the hinges. it doesn`t matter how new or old the rts is.
BIG AL, here's another Leak spot, a major one on Newa Flyers: The silver ceiling bars; Coach 5349 still leaks. It Did it once on the BX22 and yesterday on the BX12. It seems that the great ( sarcasm) folks at gunhill haven't attempted to fix this, as it was a lot worse yesterday.
From what I've seen the leaks seem to be coming from the rear a/c vents, or around where the inside ads are put on.
Usually the back half of the bus, around the sides, is where the leaks are worst. Leaks around the windows seem to always be a problem, even with the 300s and the standee windows.
I wonder if the old style buses, like pre-1980, had problems with leaks too.
Leaks are indeed a nuicance mystery.
Yes, the newlooks especially the GMC's had their share of leaks also. I remember going to school when it was raining, and having to wipe the seats off before I sat down. IIRC the Flxibles were always a little better when it came to staying dry on the inside. Leaks seem to be a typical GMC trait since it carried over into the RTS's.
I've seen some buses leaking from the A/C vents you mention, but not many. I always assumed the water was coming in from the rear and just running through the vent, as there is really no place for the water to get in above the windows.
BIG AL
I always notice leaks in RTSs, by the front door, and by the rear door. I'm not sure if it's always coming in through the ceiling though. The rain droplets seem to enjoy sticking to the INSIDE of the door when it opens, so once the door closes and the bus gets rolling, the droplets start flying around the inside of the bus. -_-
surprisingly that is not a problem on the orion buses as far as i know. nyct 1993 orion buses were not so bad, i only broke down once with them. they were great express buses. the local buses are crappy. lets not forget all the changes of ownership this co. went through.
Flxible buses leak really badly, esp on the driver's side, hell I come out of there in a shower! I think it comes in through the destination sign, because I see the water coming out of the panel. I love these buses, but that to me, this is the only downfall. I am talking about the 1989 Flxible Metro B' here. I believe this is because they are really old, I remember the 870's being this bad as well. Do the Metro D's leak as well? Hell some of our MCI D4000's leak already and only after a year. I dunno what the hell is up with this.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
New MCI's are leakin already? There must be alot of acid in the rain these days!
Yes, considering NYC is full of cars, buses, trucks and motercycles, all pumping that exhaust into the air.
Yeah. I rode 8045 of Flatbush on the B41 on Wednesday and it leaked in the back of the bus through the top of the window
Apparently, both the 145th street and Madison Avenue bridges were open Thursday morning... to boats that is. The traffic was horrendous, and corrdination between MaBSTOA dispatching, B/Os, and DOT traffic control was even worse; the bus I was on was rerouted from 149th Street down to 138th, in the hopes that we could escape the closing of the former's bridge. That was only to be dashed by the sight of stopped cars and trucks, and the open truss that conveys traffic from 138th Street to Harlem. Then, the situation got so out of hand that there was a MaBSTOA dispatcher helping the traffic officer get traffic away from the bridge approach. All this while the men on the bridge itself tried to get the span back into position; keep in mind that this is an almost century old bridge they are working with in the middle of a 2002 day. What got me thinking was were the boat was at and in what direction was it going. Why? Well, the MNR lift bridge was still open to rail traffic.
Okay, I have seen old pics of GMC and Flxible "New Look" buses and I always get confused. It appears that I keep on seeing the same bus over and over again, just in a different scheme. So, back in the 1960's, many buses were in the "Forest Green" scheme:
GMC buses #1-1130, #2000-2151, #3600-39xx, #4300-4505, #4800-49xx, #5200-5525 and #8000-89xx.
Flxible buses #4000-4202, #5000-5165 and #5600-57xx.
Then in the 1970's, many buses were changed into OR came in the "Blue/Dark Blue" scheme:
GMC buses #6000-6349, #6400-6559 and #6800-69xx.
Flxible buses #7000-72xx, #7300-74xx, #7500-77xx, #7800-7917, #9000-9309
In the 1980's, these buses were changed to the "White and Dark Blue Stripe" scheme (with the silver bumpers):
GMC buses #6000-6349, #6400-6559 and #6800-69xx.
Flxible buses #7000-72xx, #7300-74xx, #7500-77xx, #7800-7917, #9000-9309
Then, in the mid-1980's the rebuilds were in the "White and Blue Stripe" scheme with Black bumpers:
GMC buses #5000-5022, #5100-5159, #5200-5284, #5300-5404, #5500-5576
Flxible buses (NOT REBUILDS): #9000-9309 (definitely buses #9289-9297 from Jamaica...I saw those and rode in them myself before they wee scrapped)
So, my questions are as follows:
When were the colors changed on these buses?
When exactly OR approximately did the GMC buses #4300-4505 change color from Green to Blue?
When did they repaint the Flxible 9000 series before they were scrapped (like buses #9289-9297 from Jamaica and the 7500s from Manhattan and the Bronx)
Thanks to anyone who answers!
nycta buses 6000 series in 1972 were the firsr blue buses as well as the repainting to blue of older buses. going to white and blue occurred by late 70s or early 80s.
The dark green paint scheme was used until 1970. Starting then, all new buses were in the two-tone blue, and anything that got repainted got the two-tone blue.
The blue and white came into existence around 1979. As above, new deliveries after that plus repaints were blue and white.
I saw some buses still running around in green in 1980!!! If they got repainted, they went to blue and white.
I just found out that these buses are very simliar to buses #3301-3555 (MaBSTOA), anotherwords...these buses had no AC. Meanwhile, I have seen pics of buses #6419, #6441, #6519 and #6559 in the T6H-5309A or 5310A form. What's up with that?
I know why you are confused. Those 6400/6500's with AC were originally 43/44/4800's and were renumbered to accommodate the new 4000 series RTS's arriving into service during that time.
some buses remained green until their retirement. a few in bklyn were 3649,3808,8109,5019 and 5049.
Funny you should mention 5049, that was one of the ones I photographed!!!
I photographed a 1960's-vintage Flxible New Look in green at 179th St. in September 1980.
JD
Can you post that pic on here?
OK - Here's the deal with the buses you listed and the color they were delivered in.
1-1130, 2000-2151 NYCTA TDH-5301 Green
3600-3900 NYCTA TDH-5303 Green
4000-4202 NYCTA 111CD51 Green
4300-4499 NYCTA T6H-5305A Green
4500-4505 MABSTOA T6H-5310A Blue
4600-4727 MABSTOA 111CD51 Green
4800-4919 MABSTOA T6H-5309A Blue
5200-5525 MABSTOA TDH-5303 Green
6000-6349 NYCTA T6H-5309A/10A Blue
6401-6700 MABSTOA TDH-5303 Green
6701-6899 MABSTOA TDH-5303 Green
6901-6948 NYCTA T6H-5310A Blue
7000-7204 NYCTA 53102-6-1 Blue
7300-7361 MABSTOA 53102-6-1 Blue
7500-7659 NYCTA 53102-6-1 Blue
7800-7937 MABSTOA 53102-6-1 Blue
8000-8202 NYCTA TDH-5303AC Green
8301-8780 MABSTOA TDH-5303AC Green
8800-8928 NYCTA TDH-5305A Green
9000-9159 NYCTA 53102-6-1 Blue
9160-9164 MABSTOA 53102-8-1 Blue
9165-9309 MABSTOA 53102-6-1 Blue
They started painting the buses Blue in the early 70's and it lasted until the started painting the white approx. 1979. In the early 80's there were still a few NYCTA buses with their green color scheme.
These buses were rebuilt by Blitz in the early 80's.
5000-5023 were from the TDH-5303AC group
51/52XX were all T6H-5305A
53XX-55XX were T6H-5309A and 10A
In the mid to late 80's some NYCTA/MABSTOA buses were renumbered
4000-4202, 4600-4727 - Renumbered into the 72XX-74XX series
4800-4919 Renumbered into the 64XX-66XX series
This is prety much what happened - I hope I didn't leave out too much info.
Wayne
Excellent summary, Wayne.
One minor addition regarding the blue and white schemes. When the Grummans began arriving, they had a dark blue stripe on white, and older buses began to be repainted in these colors. When the first RTS's began arriving, the blue stripe was lighter than on the Grummans and this lighter blue became the standard repaint color. Thus, the darker blue did not last very long.
Thanks guys for adding in the info. that I left out.
A couple more corrections for me...:
3600-3950 TDH-5303 - I had them incorrectly listed as 3600-3900
7700-7937 53102-6-1 - I had them incorrectly listed as 7800-7937
Wayne
Some more corrections/additions:
1-190 NYCTA Green
501-805 NYCTA Green
1001-1130 NYCTA Green
2001-2175 NYCTA Green
3301-3555 MABSTOA Green
5001-5165 NYCTA Green Flx no AC
5601-5790 Same as above
Also MABSTOA, formerly 5th Ave. Coach and Surface Transit 3101-3220 TDH-5301 were repainted to Green when OA took over.
The TDH-5303 buses ran higher than 3950. I remember quite vividly seeing a 3955 bus running in Jamaica depot. I remember that bus well because it reminded me of the "Planet Of The Apes" movies, which is set in the year 3955 in which Charleston Heston and James Fransicus crash land in. I also remember a small handful of those buses still being in their green paint in the 80's, then were repainted white only to be retired a very short time later. Repainted and retired, I guess some things just never change...
BIG AL
GM Production records do not show anything higher than 3950.
TDH5303-735 through -817 were 3924-3906
TDH5303-818 through -878 were 3601-3661
TDH5303-879 through -957 were 3745-3823
TDH5303-958 through -1040 were 3662-3744
TDH5303-1041 through -1084 were 3907-3950
TDH5303-1085 up were South Suburban Safeway Lines in Chicago area, and there were no further NYCTA/MABSTOA deliveries until the MABSTOA 6401-6900 series in late 1965.
Perhaps you are mistaken about a 3955.
[The TDH-5303 buses ran higher than 3950]
Jamaica Depot received the last batch of buses from this order (3601-3950), which were 3907-3950. At the time, it was the only depot in NYCT that had both 5301's and 5303's. 126th Street had some buses from the first two orders of 5301's (that it got 2nd hand from Brooklyn depots), but these got transferred elsewhere when the 3600's arrived.
I think you forgot the 5xxx series Flxibles that arrive during the early to mid sixties. I remember the 5600 and 5700 Flxibles that ran in Queens and Brooklyn when I lived in Jamaica ('68 to '70), and a glimpse of some 5100 Flxibles during a trip through Brooklyn in '68.
So Wayne, when the "batwings were on the 6800s, that was a Non-AC bus? Those TDH-5303? They were not the 8800-8900s series buses? They were more like the #1-1130 and #2000-2151 series. Just wanted to get that cleared. Thans Wayne!
Yes, 6701-6900 had the batwings and they were TDH-5303's. The looked more like the the 10XX & 2XXX buses because both were not A/C equipped, but all of the 8800's were T6H-5305A with A/C.
There were basically 4 generations of GM new looks and NYCTA had buses from all 4 generations.
Wayne
that means mabstoa 4000 series buses are 1972 models i assume as i remember to this day an article in the daily news in 1972 that said ta gets blue buses with a picture of course not in color.
The NYCTA and MABSTOA Flxibles in the 4000 series are actually 1970's.
NYCTA 4000-4202, model 111CC-D5-1, serials 54068-54270, built 00/70 according to Flxible records.
MABSTOA 4600-4727, model 111CC-D5-1, serials 54271-54398, built 00/70.
I have seen pictures of them at the Flxible factory in color and they were green.
Those TA/OA 4000 series Flxibles were definitely green when delivered. #4727 which is part of the TA's historical fleet has been restored to the original green. I'm sure it's on this site somewhere. Also - The Transit Museum in Brooklyn has a photo of one new at the factory. Now the next TA/OA Flxibles after this, the 7000 series were oirginally blue. They were delivered somewhere around '72-'74.
Wayne
you are right. those flxibles i believe were 1969. however the 1971 gmc 4000 series were blue AFAIR. i used to go to gus gossert shows at ny academy of music on 14st and remember seeing them go by. by the way new look 3649 and 3792 were never painted. they came with green tops and silver metal sides. they stayed that way until their retirement in the early 80s.
OK - Remember there were 2 different groups of 4000 series GMC buses. The first group were T6H-5305A numbers 4300-4499. These buses were originally green and all of them were assigned to TA depots. The newer group of 4000 series GMC buses were the T6H-5310A (#4500-4505) and T6H-5309A (#4800-4919) - these are MABSTOA buses and they're the same model as NYCTA 6000-6349 & 6901-6948 and they were blue when delivered. When you mentioned seeing the buses on 14th Street - I'm guessing that you were seeing the M14. HUD depot (where the M14 was assigned) did have GMC T6H-5309A nos. 4800-4812.
Many folks believe that all 4 generations of GMC new-look buses look the same and... I'll admit that they do look quite similar. However, the buses were discussing now, the T6H-5305A & T6H-5309A/10A look nearly identical.
Wayne
Also with the rebuilds, buses #4800-48xx and #6200-6559 were changed to the "White/Silver and Blue Stripe" scheme still with the silver bumpers. I saw those pics in Transitalk.org Also, buses #6910 and #6957 were in the "White and Blue Stripe" scheme with the black bumpers. Maybe ALL the 6900 series were in the "White and Blue Stripe" scheme with the black bumpers. I'm sure you "older" guys know what I'm talking about. Again, thanks to anyone who answers.
Yesterday, I decide to take a little trip. So I leave around 4:15 & start out by taking the B8, so I board 941 and take it to Flatbush Av, where I catch B41 LTD 5110 towards Downtown Brooklyn. The driver DID NOT drive like a LTD driver. He went kind of slow on a free road and we caught up to local bus 9399 at Church Av(remember this). He misses the light at Church Av because of traffic and I see another local bus, 8430, with 9399 at Clarkson Av has a chance to pass both, misses the light at Clarkson because of no room at the stop. As we leave, the locals are GONE. We go through the part bet. Empire Blvd & GAP at a reasonable speed but traffic was building up. We finally pass 9399 by 7 Av and 8430 by Bergen St. Guess what, both locals CATCH up to him and 9399 passes him after we leave Atlantic Av(should of took the Q :-\).
So I get off at Nevins St and I decide I want to ride the B38. At Fulton Mall, traffic & buses are getting backed up and cars drive on the wrong side to beat the light at Flatbush Av & people nearly got hit a few times. They gotta do something about the lights because Fulton doesn't get enough time for trafic to cross. Anyway, I board 9578 and the bus was hot and smelled like sweat/must (lack of air circulation). Its nearly jam packed so I had to stand a long time. Here's something very interesting: I saw tarp covering one of the entrances/exits at the Clinton Av side of Clinton/Washington Av train station(G). What's up with that? At Classon Av, a guy and his daughter go through the back door & the driver says "intruder alert" the whole bus started laughing. So it was a smooth ride until my next stop, Myrtle Av, where I get off to catch the M train.
So I just miss a Metro Av bound M so I have to wait 9-10 minutes for the next one. So I hop on R42 4753 and I take it to Wyckoff Av, where I wil wait for the Q55(1st time riding it). To "DaRidgewoodBusBuff", you were right about this, it is horrible, if you (and others familiar with this route) read this, look at what happens. So I just miss 4729, so I wait a couple of minutes until 8151 comes up and its gets packed but the people crowded the front as this happens on a lot of bus routes. It takes 15 minutes to get to the SECOND bus stop because I thought we were stuck in traffic.Next thing we see, a armored truck insisted on double parking & blocked the damn roadway & riders were grilling him hard! (I'll continue in a next post.)
Continuing where I left off, so when we got a chance to go around it, it took 15-20 minutes to get to the SECOND bus stop (I'm talking about my ride on the Q55). then we move solwly on Myrtle, stopping at EVERY bus stop [I'm not exaggerating] until 83 St, when the bus started to get empty and we finally started to pick up speed and skip bus stops. Now when we reach Woodhaven Blvd, I was heading to Lefferts Blvd, 4729 is already heading back to Ridgewood! I was like WTF?! This driver was real late by 1/2 AN HOUR, you'll see why. Then the driver goes fast to make up time bet. a stretch w/no traffic lights and myself & the few passengers left finally reach Jamaica Av. What is normally a 32 minute trip took 1 hour and yes it did bunch because a '87/'88 RTS was right behind it(didn't catch the #).
So I walk to Lefferts Blvd to wait for a Q10. So its only a few minutes before RTS 652 arrives & it has a good crowd so I take it to the last stop. Saw a few Orions on the 10 and the QM18. I wanted to ride the Q46 LTD but I went through too many delays & it started to rain so I had to scratch that and things only get worse (well sort of). I wait for the Q60 to go back to Manhattan but it was taking long so I decide to take the F to Manhattan. I wait until a R46 F arrives and I'm riding it and goes smooth so far. During the xepress run, we kept on solwing down and during all the strightaways and throught the 63rd St tunnel we were slowing down. Then after we leave 57 St, we get stopped by a red signal but in reality it was a connection between the F and the D. At 34 St I was thinking should I take the Q or W to Canal for the or should I stay and take it to Delancey. So I decide to stay on it and this would cost me some more time.
At 23 St, we're held there again because of a red signal so we're stuck for 10 minutes. We finally move on and guess?? we get stopped a 3rd time! The C/R says that there was a earlier incident and trains were backed up, F's & V's. Then we get moving again & reach Delancey & Essex St and the J comes right after I go upstairs. We go across the bridge & I get off at Marcy and to make it up for not riding the Q46, I ride the B46 LTD. So I wait until 4446 comes & takes passengers to leave the plaza. Nice to get a GM sometimes, this bus has very good acceleration FB took good care of the GM'86 and TMC'87 series . So the rain clears & were going smoothly & throughout the ride it didn't get crowded. We go slow at times but once we get to the point where Utica Av widens, we had good speed until I reached my stop, Av D. Then I have to wait 25 minutes, which I only should have waited 15, in windy conditions for the B8. In my wait, I only saw 2 B8's toward Rockaway Av. So 817 FINALLY arrives and goes very quickly Then all of a RTS 8100 PASSES us & we do not catch up to it. But its a good ride until I reach home at 10:15! At least a hour if not more was delays ALONE. I know its a very, very long story.
NF 941 B8
RTS 5110 B41 LTD
RTS 9578 B38
R42 4753(M)
RTS 6151 Q55
GBL RTS 652 Q10
R46 5946(F)
R42 4851(J)
RTS 4446 B46 LTD
NF 817 B8
RTS 8151 Q55*
BTW, I was going towards VA Hosp going home
you brought back memories. i lived on clarkson ave for 25 years and rode and later drove b41. long before your time i assume. i drove new look flxibles and gmcs.
You rode the Q55? Told ya it was bad. It sucks for me because I live close to it. :(
When there are delays on the Q55, (L) train riders coming from the Myrtle Av. station will make a loooog line sometimes reaching around the corner newsstand! And this happens every weekday! Everytime I see a B13(1990 or newer), I chase after it, and take it instead of the Q55. Its much, much emptier.
The 9578 was hot for you? Well it was the opposite with the 5067 on the B13, the air conditioner was on full blast, it this was at 6:30 P.M. when it gets dark outside!
I was cold even with my jacket @_@.
I was on the Q55 today, I got the 9156(thank God), if you had rode it today, you probably would have seen me.
Today, I too made a bus ride. My first time on the B47. ead my post about it within the next hour.
Was just at GCT Transit Museum Store and to my amazement, saw an RTS with a QBX1 Flushing signs on it. QSC has this route now though. Is this a sign of things to come?
#452 QBX1 ???!!!
no i bought the bus at the festival in june. the maker is not always accurate with the signs. did you see corgi buses at the store.
6947? Yep sure did.
#6947 X27
Grand central need more space for those rts bus bank and I will be glad when that get a new shipment of bus banks. I want the m10 Central park west route. And I hope one day I get to see a artic bus bank on those shelf too.
Don't hold your breath for an artic model. Bus collecting isn't the big hobby you'd wish it to be.
From this and other boards, I have learned that there is a LARGE ($50,000 or more) outlay of cash to design, mold and receive the first bunch of models from China. Then you have to stripe and market them. There isn't any abounding rumors about an artic model being produced. There are some models of European artics, so you could always "bash build" yourself a NYC artic.
I would also suggest contacting Bus-Talker Fred Donaher ('Flxible') at Flxible176 @ Yahoo.com and get his thoughts on the project or if he could do one for you and how much it would cost.
I have an RTS bus bank labeled "Q48 FLUSHING-MAIN STREET".
It seems that I have found "Big Ken" today. It was HWY 3's former fishbowl. It is alive and well. It still retains its all blue paint scheme, minus the NYPD stickers. It looks like it is now owned by Monroe Bus Service. It was travelling with a pack of their MCI's. It was actually the lead bus, with the MCI's right behind it. It was sure nice to see a fishbowl on the Blvd. again!
From the name of the company it sounds like it is owned by people having links to the Hassidic Community. They run buses between Williamsburg and their communities in the lower Catskill Mountains. Sometimes these buses are parked on the overpasses and "service roads" of the BQE in Williamsburg south of Broadway.
Hopefully any BT'ers who drive on the BQE can keep an eye-out for it.
monroe bus comes from monroe ny. they do charters as well as trips to manhattan from munsey and kiryas joel the orthodox communities upstate. they buy a lot of used buses.
If they do a charter to NYC do they go back to Monroe ? If there is a charter before sundown Friday or a holiday and they can't get back to Monroe before sundown do they lay-over somewhere in NYC or do they refuse the work ?
they naturally follow all the customs of the orthodox faith. most but not all the drivers are orthodox jews. the only day this precludes work would be saturday. they would be off the road 2 hours before sundown friday. you will see their buses on 5th ave and 46 st illegally parked mon-thurs. police never bother them.
[they buy a lot of used buses]
I believe that Monroe Bus Corp.'s latest purchases were some MC-9B's that had run at DeCamp. Before that, they purchased many MCI buses from Raritan Valley, Suburban and Lakeland. I don't believe they ever buy new buses. That used to be the case, also, for Monsey Tours, but lately that outfit has bought some new buses.
Doesn't / Didn't Triboro Coachesd, or asny Queens priovate still have a fishbowl? Wasn't one kept as a museum bus? I tried to get QSC to hold one but, at that time, it was a no go.
Triboro Coach has preseved bus # 621. Although the color scheme shouts "QSC" and not "CTC". There are pics of that bus on this site.
Look up either the 1999 or 2000 Bus Fest pictures to see it.
Also Jamaica Bus has a suburban Fishbowl that is owned by the Cooper Family and not the DOT and is used for special events. When I saw it, the bus was parked in the southeast corner of their property, where the employees park and not on the north side of the property where the revenue equipment is stored.
The bus is numbered 3001. The roll sign said "Express Bus" and was put into service by the Rex Bus Company of NJ.
Monroe Bus has a small lot where it parks buses off of Route 17 a short distance northwest of Woodbury Commons. I haven't been by there lately, but used to see an ex-NYCT new look Flxible in the lot. If I get by there soon, I'll check to see if I spot a fishbowl.
while on the sie today saw academy mci buses 1402 and 1403. they are mci j or g i dont know. they appeared brand new. anyone know aout this?
I believe Academy has had some MCI J series buses for a few months now. I saw two a few weeks back at the Perth Amboy garage - don't remember precise numbers, but think they may have been 1407 and 1409. They look very nice!
This afternoon, was on Canal Street and noticed that Broadway was shut at Canal going South. Buses detoured left on Canal, right on Lafayette, south to Park Row, left Broadway and regular.
I didn't pay much attention when I got on the R train downtown. When I got off at City Hall, I looked up Broadway, and Police ESU truck seemed to be blocking Broadway at about Worth Street (not sure).
From that far away, I know the Federal Building is up there. Anyone got any news on what happened?????
I am not riding but I am observing:
9348 on the T2 this morning STILL has its flag to commemorate 9/11. I was behind the wheel so no pictures.
Trolley replica 5299 was on the 92
Orion V 4334 (I think) was on the L8 and does not have a bike rack.
After I took all the brochures for the September 3, 2000 service changes from the library, someone restocked them. Needless to say, the new supply, as well as about half the September 1, 2002 changes and old 75, 6, and 22 schedules are no longer there.
Landover's 9774 has had a flag attached to the side destination sign, about a month after the commeration of 9/11. I don't remember if I saw it when I rode it last week, as I was groggy and grumpy that morning.
I spotted the following Northern buses with bike racks: 9434, 9439, 4296, 4295, 2171,2172, 2185, 2195, 9805, 9815, 9822, 8900, 2203. I also saw ex Southeast 4211, now based out of Four Mile Run with a bike rack. I believe the next garage to get bike racks will be Royal, then Southeast/Annex and last Landover.
what's the name of that garage next to/near white flint mall?
Montgomery.
Here is the listing of buses transferred out of Bladensburg to other garages, when the CNGs arrived, starting from the newer buses to the older ones.
Orion VI:
2061-Landover, why?
2062-2079: to Four Mile Run
2080, 2081: to Southeast/Annex
1997-1998 Orion V:
4359-4374 or 75: to Montgomery (note: today, I spotted 4368 about to go in service on the P2, I assume this bus was out of place, don't know why they would put 4368 here, when the rest are at Montgomery
4375 or 76-4379: Southeast/Annex
Flxible D 9700s
9701-9723: to Montgomery
9744-9765, 9776-9785: to Four Mile Run
Flxible Bs 9300s & 9400s
Here it is not as clear, so I am making guestimates here
9458-9463: to Southeast/Annex (this I am sure of)
9422-9426: I assume to Royal, since they have ex-Landover's 9421(actually ex Bladensburg, ex Montgomery and ex Landover), 9427-9429 and ex Northern's 9430 and 9431
9345-9352: to Montgomery
9330-9344: to Southeast/Annex
9301-9311?: to Royal (I can only assume because from 9312 to 9329 is up in the air. I have seen most of the 9320s running out of Arlington, but have seen 9325 running from Northwest.
The only other buses they have were the 8800s and I think they are still there.
Bladensburg transferred out other buses way before the CNGs arrived, mostly to Montgomery and they are:
Flxible E:
4001-4006: to Montgomery
4051-4058: mixed to Montgomery and to Southeast/Annex
Orion V 9600s
9651-9660: to Montgomery
Flixble Bs
9421: initially to Montgomery, during the "RTS back door crisis". This bus was then transferred to Landover and now it is running from Royal
8971-8975: again initially to Montgomery for the same reason, then also transferred to Landover, then transferred to Western, might be back at Bladensburg, have seen 8974 and 75 running on a lot of Bladensburg routes
8820-8834: to Southeast, since then these buses are running from various garages
8854-8863: to Northwest. Some were transferred to one of the Virginia garages, I believe Royal, some have returned to Western.
8746-8761?: to Southeast
I saw 8855 a few weeks ago at Friendship Heights, this bus had been at Western a few years ago as well. I was not aware it had been moved. The rest of your observations match what I have seen. I will soon be putting my new pictures on my website so you will be able to get some numbers I may have not posted on BusTalk.
This bus was running for a while from Royal about a couple of months back, since has returned back to Western.
I have a few ideas, maybe they`ll work. We need something here to make the njt bus trips a hell of a lot better. Most of these routes tend to be too long and with too many local stops, particularly in that God-forsaken hellhole called Camden.
So here we go:
400-Split off the Sicklerville run and run that route as an express between Camden and Deptford Mall. Take the Camden County College Branch and extend it to the Lindenwold Patco Station, eliminate the Audubon Short-turn, and run the Sicklerville buses every 30 minutes, and the split Lindenwold/Turnersville buses every 30 minutes (60 on each branch. Turnersville buses end at Cross Keys Plaza).
401,402-Run these long distance buses express between Camden and Woodbury. Extend these buses from Salem(401), Pennsville(402), to Bridgeton for connections to the 553 to AC. Also make service hourly or 90 minutes on each route. The Broadway portions of these routes would be taken over by the 411 and 412 routes.
403-Split this route in two. The 403 will run from Philly to Echelon Mall via Lindenwold Patco. Another route (say the 433) from Echelon Mall to Cross keys Plaza. This route would have service evenly divided on the Erial Rd and Branch/DeCou segments, with Erial Rd buses serving Camden County College.
404-Reinstate the Expo Center diversion (take pressure off the 409), and extend this bus down Haddonfield Rd and Marlton Pike to the Cherry Hill Train Station.
405-Extend this bus to the Moorestown Mall via Chapel Ave, Kings Hwy, Fox Meadows Apts, and Lenola Rd. This would tie this route in better with the 407.
406-Instead of running this bus to Berlin, how about running this bus down RT 73, Evesham Rd, and White Horse Rd to the Lindenwold Patco Station. This bus would serve the burgioning shopping area on Rt 73 in Marlton.
407- Discontinue the Fox Meadow service (now used on the 405), and find a way to run this bus through a part of Mt Laurel Township.
408-Improve headways on this line, particularly on weekends.
409-With the coming of the SJLRT, this line should be split in two. A Phila. to Burlington segment, and a Burlington to Trenton segment operated by the Hamilton Garage.
410-Eliminate the local run through Camden, run buses express between Camden and Woodbury, and re-route part of the route to serve the growing developments in this part of Gloucester County.
411/412-This should be the local routes serving Broadway Camden. The 411 would end in Woodbury, and the 412 ends in Glassboro. Add more Saturday and Sunday service to these routes.
413- Improve the Weekday Schedule. The weekend Schedule is better understood than the Weekday schedule. Make all weekend Buses run the Weekday route(serving Lumberton Plaza.)
419-Use Rt 130 between Cinnaminson Ave and Philly. (the 452 will cover the route in Camden and Pennsauken), Extend the route to the Burlington Center Mall, and the Social Services campus.
I`ll give you some ideas about the intrastate routes in another post tommorrow.
I know that you are going to write about the interstate routes tomorrow, but I remember riding a NJT bus (cant remember which line), from Market Street over to the Cherry Hill Mall.....the ride took over an hour becuase it winded all the way through Camden (with many interesting characters getting on and off along the way).
I would like to see a Philly to Cherry Hill Express. I believe that more Philly folks would be inclined to shop and work there if getting there was more convienient. Anyone agree?
(P.S.-I'm sure this line would be more successful than SEPTA's SPREE)
Nova RTS #9263 was on the X63 today I saw it at 6:56 PM as I was walking to Wendys and I saw it and was like "What the Hell!".
I saw it too but at 57 St and Madison Ave at 625pm. I said the same thing.
#9263 X63
Probably because the regular driver called in sick and the replacement b/o hasn't been trained to operate an MCI yet.
BIG AL
Like usual I start off with the B13, I got the 9155. When it reached the entrance area of Fresh Pond Depot, the drivers switch. It was a female B/O , something I rarely see on the B13. When we reached Gates and Wyckoff she told everyone to get off. She said she had to change buses, 10 mintues later, with the B13 already being 15 minutes late, I see the 4677. I said to myself the hell with that. I'm taking the (L) train. So I went down to the Myrtle Av. and got the R143 train. A much more enjoyable ride then the damn 4677!...., anyways I get off at Graham Av.(I was suppose to take the B13 there) and waited for the B43.
On the B43 got CNG New Flyer #801(I think that was the first one that went to JG). I got off at Flushing Av./Bway and towards Marcey Garvey Blvd. to get the B47. The 9439 was parked there so got on it.
On 9439, there was slowdown on Bway, but we went a little faster once we got passed Bway. As we reach 98 St., I seen the "restored" (3) line. On the other side of da B47, I seen the 4655, a former FP bus, "I" certainly won't miss it. I got to Kings Plaza. And as soon as I got off 9439, smoked a cig.. I hang out in Kings Plaza for awhile.
Later, I waited to catch the B47, and watched B3 buses go by. Whoever said that the B3 constantly uses Nova Suburbans; they were right, I've must of seen at least four of them when I was waiting for the B47. Finally two buses came; 9395 and 5077. The 9395 picked up passengers first and got crowded, so waited 2 minutes later for 5077(I was hoping to get an 8400, but I barely saw any on the B47 today). It took like 65 minutes to get to Woodhull, which isn't too bad. As for a ranking I give the B47 a B. Its good, but it does have it's share of delays. To me, its still not as enjoyable as the B13. And speaking of the B13, I felt like taking it again.
When I got off 5077, I went upstairs to the Flushing Av. J/M/Z station(it looks a lot better now, I looked through the new gate at the middle to see on overhead view of some buses, I seen 4408 and 5220 on the B15 ). I waited and got the (M) and took it to Myrtle Av./Bway because I wanted the (Z) train. I got an R40m on the (Z) and took it to Cresent St./Fulton St. to get the B13.
On the B13 I got the 5067, and damn it was cold. Its already turning dark and already getting colder outside, however the air conditioner was blasted! For some reason this only happens in a 98' or 99' Nova. Anyways I go up the Cypress Hils St., the Big zigzag hill. Easily the best part of the B13, I never tire of it. Then reach Gates Av./ Wyckoff Av.. I go to the pizzaria(Myrtle Av./Madison St) because I was hungry. Then I go back to Palmetto St./Myrtle/Wyckoff(this is like my hang out area, because of the lots of FP buses you see there). Finally I waited for the Q55 (late as usual) and got on 9156, with 8008 following right behind it.
-
B13- RTS #9155
R143 (L) Train(I got a strange couple: 8153-8156, 8217-8220. The 8217-8220 is a brand new set.)
B43- New Flyer #801
B47- RTS #9439
B47- RTS #5077
R40m- (Z) Train
B13- RTS #5067
Q55- RTS #9156
To me the B47 is one of the best routes ever made in quite a long time.When I took it,I really enjoyed it,especially around the old B40 part of it since I never went through there before.I gave that route an A rank and you can see why I got rid of the M20 and put up B47 instead on my handle.I absoultely love that bus!
LOL, you really can't stand those 1987/88 TMC's huh? Some of them do run good though [The '86 GM's have better accelerators though and still running strong too bad they will be gone soon].
Remember "Ridgewood", my Brooklyn/Queens trip post had 2 parts to it so if you read only the first part, read the 2nd part.
I took a ride on the 47 back in September rode it terminal to terminal towards Kings Plaza and its very convenient. I gave it a A-. BTW, you won't see 8400's too much on that route, you'll see them mostly on the 41,44 and 46(aka the LTD routes).
That Q55 is so stupid!!!>:-O. 20 minutes to get to the SECOND bus stop unbelievable. Now I see what you go through on that damn route! I'll make it sure I wont ride it for a long time.
My hatred for the 4600's/4700's is for 2 reasons.
1. They became FP's replacements for the 83'RTS's/84'RTS's/85'RTS's in 2000 and 2001, very dissapointing.
2. The Brooklyn Division gets stuck with nearly all of them, especially FP. I am so sick of seeing them everywhere in Brooklyn, while the other boroughs have the 1990 RTS's and newer. If you live near FP routes, you will easily get tired of them, and that's the case with me.
You really liked those slow-assed 1983's? I hated them! The 1984's and 1985's were THE best!
No, I didn't like the 83'RTS's. Because they were dumped in FP at the last minute. Trust me, I do not miss buses like the 3016, 3053, 3299(horrible), 3309, and 3310. However I do miss the 4145, that was a FP original.
The closest FP Route to me is the Q54. I live just about 6 Blocks away from it. I normally see alot of Newer RTS's on that line and sometimes a 47xx Shows up
Such a long post with no payoff! I was going to post "My first time in the back of a '55 Chevy," but the hell with it, I'm going back to reading the Penthouse Forum. :-)
Tom
Lines 801, 802, and 803 run layter to better serve the people. Download schedules at www.mta.net
Washington State Voters will be voting on Initiative 776....part of which will severly affect public transit funds.
--SOUND TRANSIT: Repeals the .3 percent local car-tab tax levied by Sound Transit in parts of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties. The owner of a car valued at $20,000 would save $60 per year. Sound Transit estimates it would lose about 20 percent of its budget, or $699 million over several years. Backers of the regional agency say it would be gutted, slashing service on express buses, Sounder trains and planned light-rail systems
West coast bustalkers......are people fighting against this?
Thats really too bad. I suppose this will kill the fourth Jumbo MKII for Washington State Ferries, I heard that it was a distant possiblity last summer, now I suppose it's gone. Wonder what will happen to Todd Shipyards now, not that one 2500pax ferry would keep them afloat, just that it's one less contract that they have.
Sound Transit should dump the Link, it's a stupid idea to begin with, running a light rail parallel to the Sounder heavy rail commuter trains. Either throw up a catenary on the Sounder tracks and purchase some Silverliner Vs, or get DMUs to provide a very local service while the F59PHI/Bombardier trains provide the longer Everett-Seattle-Tacoma express runs. The higher acceleration of the EMUs or DMUs would slightly offset the frequent stops that a local service would mean, in the meantime, the lower acceleration F59PHI sets would zip between the stops, hitting the larger park and rides and, on the north side, the two ferry termials at Mukilteo and Edmonds.
It is clear that a large percentage of the citizens of Seattle would rather have an elevated monorail, several groups have been created for the furtherance of these ideas, groups like Freeway Monorail, and The Elevated Transit Company. Both plans have definite growth potential. Unlike the LINK, which confines it's downtown seattle run to a single tunnel, displacing the busses currently using the bus tunnel and adding traffic to already conjested streets.
Unfortunately I don't live out there, maybe I'll make it out there for my pre-junior or junior year co-op.
That link to the Elevated Transit company should have been elevated.org, not elevated.com as I put.
Sorry for that, I'm not gonna even try another hyperlink, you'll have to cut an paste.
Saw this on VH-1 last night; it was a video for Santana's new tune featuring Michelle Branch called "Game Of Love". In the background were a bunch of Seventies-era automobiles, and what looked like either a GM or Flx New Look. Also, Michelle was singing inside a GM 4509 with a dark interior. In the background was what looked like a Breda train going by on an overpass. The video was pleasing overall, and what a grooving tune it is.
Can anyone verify the bus mentioned above that's seen this? Also, for all you WMATA and Baltimore fans, Usher has a new album. The title? "8701". :)
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
WMATA's 8701 ran faithfully from Landover for around 10 years, before being sent to Four Mile Run. Hopefully, like 8713 and 8722, it will come back to Landover to run out its last days. Never rode this bus though, but one of the better looking 87s though.
Wes, a Flxible always looks good at WMATA, especially in original colors; in fact, I have a pic of 8700 at Arlington at home. What is the current livery status of that one and 8701?
-F.
I don't think they've been repaitned. They're probably on their last legs as they only see peak hour service normally.
That sounds about right, being that they are the first order from 1986. Then again, the ones used for Hokie games at Virginia Tech are that age and have held up quite well, despite their usually packed status. Sometimes the drivers have had over 100 people on them at once...a feat that probably cannot be copied by the New Flyer LFs that are replacing them soon in regular service!
Actually, "The Complex" at Landover is starting to fill up with 8700s, ready for retirement. So far about around 20-30 are there waiting for official retirement. I have spotted 8756,8754,8781,8730 there, the ones I saw that were there. I does seem like its only the 8700s that are being retired for now, have yet to see an 8800 or 8900 there yet, but I pass by "The Complex" almost everyday, I could find out if there are any.
I had made the observation that 5591 would stack the words MONTGOMERY MALL on the front sign. Well, I saw 5581 doing it on the 47 as well today, and on the 46, MONTGOMERY COLLEGE was stacked. It is about time, too, since the signs are so slow to change, to wait for it to say
ROCKVILLE
then
MONTGOMERY
and then finally
COLLEGE
took forever. Make it a code red day and it be even longer:
ROCKVILLE
MONTGOMERY
COLLEGE
CODE RED
RIDE FREE
Looks like those days are ending...
Finished all the HTML for the most recent OTP pics, now I just have to upload to the new server. I am hoping this is done by the end of next month at the very latest.
your damn right. especially on code red days, i have to wait at least 7 seconds to see if it was even a code red or not. and if the bus left my sight before it flips to "code red" i cant ever tell if it's a code red or if i should pull out my "youth cruiser pass" and most importantly because I live off the 46 route.
The fare boxes are usually covered with a red bag, too. The media is getting better at announcing this the day before as well as the day of.
heh, yeah. Is it possible to stack with the luminator flipdots though? i dont think i ever saw stacking with that sign.
The only Ride-On buses that can stack are the 1999 Gilligs, the 1993 Flxible Metros, and the 2001-2002 Orion Vs (it appears). The other buses change signs quickly so the fact they don't stack is irrelevant. On a Code Red day on a 1996 Gillig or 1999 Orion, the message will go very quickly:
42 MEDICAL CENTER
CODE RED-RIDE FREE
42 MEDICAL CENTER
CODE RED-RIDE FREE
BTW: I am not so sure if the Orion VIs can stack (I think they can) but I know the 5100s (whatever they are) and 5200 Ford Cutaways don't on the front but do on the side.
it's just a pain reaching for it in my pocket and showing it to the driver, lol
what kind of signs does the flixibles have? I havent been on one lately since theres only 3 of them.
Actually, there are 4, if you were looking at my site, the reason you only see three is because the 4th seems to be the most elusive of them all. I saw it once on the 37. Whenever it runs there, I am always on the other bus and it is always on time (if it is late, I can wait to get a picture). They appear to be flip dot signs of some sort although I have never been on one. I believe they were the original signs that they had when they were up in Baltimore.
oh, i thought there was 3 because i read it from somewhere. Do you know if the 1993 orion Vs are second handed also? since they are different from the rest of the V's (different engine, 2 spoke steering wheel, 102", ground level exhaust pipe) i also noticed there are not many of them either, but i'm not sure.
The 4 buses are 5700-5703. I am unable to recall any 1993 Orion Vs in the Ried-On fleet, what are the unit numbers of the buses in question? If I recall correctly, the first Orion Vs showed up in 1996.
i'm not sure of the numbers, i didnt really focus on that. all i know is that it started with 93 in small digits and 5XXX i rode one on friday, 46 montgomery college, it was at rockville metro at approximately 3 or a couple minutes before. I thought ride-on ordered V's in 1994 or 1995 and after.
I think those are the ones in the 5550's. In the early 90's I remember riding on one of the Orion V's on the 38 from Montgomery Mall after watching "Money Train". So, whenever that movie was out was when those buses appeared. I think the numbering started right after the Orion I's in the 5500's.
35 footer V's used to be at lytonnsville garage??
Yeah, I guess at one time they were right at the beginning, because I never really saw it again on there, but it was definitely a 35' Orion V.
i could've swore 5550's were newer orion V's, they have newer looking seat inserts and i THINK they're 1996s. i'm not sure though
Yeah, that sounds about right.
where are the new orion V's being sent to? i thought they were all being sent to gaitersburg but occasionaly i see one coming out of lytonnsville
I believe they are split between the two. WMATAGMOAGH probably has a better idea of which buses are where.
ah, so far i've only seen 2002's run out of lytonnsville, gaithersburg has a lot more, both 2001s and 2002s. but they've been slowly dissappearing :/ how did ride-on like the C40LFs?
They are split, the rundown seems to be the following:
5580-5599 Gaithersburg
5612-5623 or 4 Gaithersburg (I think 5622 and higher are 2002 but I am not sure)
5600-5611 seem to be all over. 5602 is at Gaithersburg, 5607 and higher seem to all be at Silver Spring. I am quite sure the others are at Silver Spring too but one or two might be at Gaithersburg.
I haven't seen any of them "slowly disappearing". They just picked again in September and the Gaithersburg operators seem to get the same bus day after day. Perhaps they are being pulled out on routes where you don't get to see them. The 37 has one most mornings as does the 47. I have also saw quite a few on the 38 over the summer and I saw one last weekend. I was also in Rockville one night last week and saw quite a few go by, although most of the buses going by were 1996-98 Orion Vs.
I forgot about the C40s. I don't know but the driver who I talked to said he didn't like it much because he is so much higher than the passengers. He seemed to not like low floor buses in general.
I rode 5801 once and I didn't have my camera that day. I don't know which routes it is on most often this pick.
i rode one of them and the bell kept on coming on because one of the strings must've been over tightened or something . people had to call out stops manually.
passengers seemed to be fansinated though
passengers seemed to be fasinated though
Low floor buses make up about .00667 of Ride-On's fleet. The chances that one pulls up to their stop is rather slim, especially if they live on a Silver Spring or ATE/Ryder Route (in which case it is 0). They probably had not been on a low floor bus. I saw similar reactions on board NYCT's Orion VI/HEV 6350 on the M103 in June. With only about 7-9 low floor buses assigned to routes that run in Manhattan, most people didn't even notice something was amiss until either I pointed out there were no steps from the curb or there were no seats at the very front of the bus.
Get the number next time if you don't mind, it makes figuring things out easier. It might have been a demonstration bus but as far as I know, the first Orion Vs were 1996.
Actually, the 9600s arrived in 1992. Those were Orion Vs; I recall seeeing 9606 in the newer colors when I went there in 2000.
-F.
Fred,
They're talking about Ride-On's Orion V. But - you're right about WMATA's first Orion V coming back in '92.
Wayne
Whoops...my bad. Thanks!
-Fred
These two buses you are referring to are 5546 and 5547 from 1993. These were not to my knowledge second hand buses. These buses have 6V92 engines and do have no exhaust pipe at the top. The only other Orion Vs without top exhaust pipes are WMATA's 9660 and 9659. These two started their careers at Lyttonsville, but about a year after the first 5550s were delivered, they moved them up to the Shady Grove garage. These buses seemed to be used sparingly, as my many trips up to northern Montgomery County, I have seen them about six times tops.
also, 5567 and/or 5569 doesnt have a top exhaust, but they're CNGs. so i dont know if that would count.
They really don't have an exhaust pipe technically, but their exhaust comes from the top. Those buses have grilled exhausts from the top, which might have been the case for alot of the early CNG models,especially the Orion Vs, at least I think those grilled things that are where the exhaust pipes. I saw some clear vapors leaving that area of the buses, anyway.
I just listened to the radio and I knew if it was Code Red or not, but it didn't help me know where the bus was going if it was at a stop with multiple routes. Doesn't the youth cruiser pass give you unlimited rides anyway? To have the pass on a Code Red day actually results in your losing money, not saving it.
I rode this today on the B52. It looks good but There was some writeing right behind the backdoor in White Paint. I think this bus should be thrown into the paint shops since this bus runs pretty good.
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here (http://www.subtalklive.com/chathamsquare) and join in! If you have mIRC, do not click the link, just do your thing! Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
I fround this out in a ad from Yesterdays NY Post and a Streetfair is going on This Sunday on 6 Ave bewteen 42 St-56 St. Now I know there would bus detours on the buses on 6 Ave.
Detour Routeing for the X1,M5,M6,M7:Right on 42 St,Left on Madison,Left on 57 St,Right on 6 Ave. Resumes Normal Route at 57 St and 6 Ave
Detour Routeing for the QM1A,QM2,QM4: Right on 42 St,Left on Madison,Right on 57 St. Resumes Normal Route at 57 St and Madison
Is this fact or speculation?
At least for the M5 and M7, and perhaps for the M6, it would seem to make more sense to divert up 8th, not Madison, since the M5 and M7 have to end up at Columbus Circle anyway.
Well It just a guess. I was wrong on the detour routeing for the QM1A,QM2,QM4 Lines. As recording to QSC's Website it would be like this: Detour starts at 34 St and Madison and ends at 57 St and Madison. Right on Madison,Right on 57 St and resumes Normal Routeing.
You might be right on the detour routeing on the M5 and M7. The last time 6 Ave close down the X1,M5,M6,M7 Lines went up 8 Ave. So the Detour would most likely be like this. M5,M7 Detour:Left on 42 St,Right on 8 Ave,resumes normal routeing after Columbus Circle.
X1,M6 Detour: Left on 42 St,Right on 8 Ave,Right on 57 St,Right on 7 Ave to make a Layover on 7 Ave between 57 St and 56 St.
I was reading that NJT is retiring their fleet of MC9-Bs
to make room for the influx of new equipment. I was
thinking: what if MCI came out with a updated version?
I came up with a list of improvements that I think it
should have.
1) Roomier driver compartment with an air ride bucket
seat.
2) Heated power mirrors
3) A defroster for the destination sign
4) Making a Allison B5000 transmission standard equipment
5) LED directionals and brake lamps
6) Halogen headlights
7) Stainless steel exhaust
8) A steerable tag axle as an option
I just want to clarify that I realize that the MC-9 model
is not in production. This is just my take on a
improved MC9-B.
I'd say the closet to it is the MC-12.
Wayne
NYCT buses on the road aren't what they were back in the late 80's, early 90's. Back then depots had a QC team. It was rare for a bus to leave the garage with graffiti, light bulbs out, decals missing, etc. In the a.m. there was a dispatcher and mechanic to check the pull outs. If a seat was dirty, it was cleaned. If a brake light was out, the bulb was changed, graffiti cleaned inside & out. You name it, it was done. For the afternoon, prior to the school trips and early p.m. runs going out, same deal. After the p.m. rush, buses again were checked and written up. Mechanics would do minor items right on the fuel line. Anything needing more time, buses went on the defect line and a mechanic overnight would tend to it. On weeekends, there was a QC dispatcher as well. They did away with the QC program and now alot of buses are in service with dest sign lights out, graffiti, interior lights out, decals missing, loose mirrors, roof lights out, dirty seats, etc. QC worked, and the buses were clean inside and out. BLX speaks, some people listen, some people are not intimidated to respond. BLX loves you.
sld and mechanic still check out am pullouts. a lot of the things you mentioned were very nitpicking and larry reuter eliminated the quality control. lets face it. having a 60,000 sld checking for gum on the seats is a huge waste of money. why not use welfare recipients on wep to check out such things.
I have to disagree with you on this issue. Quality Control was an excellent program and kept the bus fleet in good condition. Since it's elimination the overall quality of the NYCT bus fleet has gone downhill. It's not unusual now to pull out a bus that is dirty both inside and out with minor body damage and not all lights working properly. If your goal is to encourage more people to take mass transit then it is self-defeating to allow a bus in service that looks like it belongs in a scrap yard.
quality contol was and still is a waste of time.why do i have to work with a bus that has dust caked up all over the place.what is needeed is a total restructuring of how buses are cleaned. they worry more about the outside of the bus but just sweep through the interior..just look at the top of the whell wells of any bus. tell me does tha look like it has ever been cleaned. and if it was painted you can see the beeds where the dust was painted over.
Gun Hill doesn't give a rat's ass about their busses, and it shows! You describe everything that many gunhill busses have ( Some have about 30% od the lights in a bus dead).
Sounds like they need to learn a thing or two from the folks at New York Bus Service. Those buses are clean from top to bottom, both inside and outside. Of course it is a much smaller operation.
Peace,
Kevin
And most of the buses at NYBS spend a lot less time on the road than the buses at NYCT.
Plus NYBS recieves thier operating costs Plus a guarenteed profit form DOT.
does anybody know the engine/transmission specs for ride-on's current fleet? And are the new orion Vs 102" or 96"?
Ride-On's newest Orion V's are 35-foot long, 96 inches wide. They do have some 40 foot, 102 inch wide Orion V's as well. These units are '99 diesel and CNG buses.
I don't keep track of the transmissions, but I'm pretty sure these are Voith trannys. The 40-footers have DD series 50 engines, but the 35-footers are a mixed - some have Series 50 engines and I beleive the others have Cummins engines. I'm sure some of the others BusTalkers can go into more detail for you.
Wayne
Do you have specs for the Ride-On Flx Metros? And are they all 30-footers, or are some 35s and 40s thrown into the mix?
-F.
rideon's flixes are all 40 footers
I have seen pics of 30-footers in the past as well...I think these were built around 1987 and had purple stripes. Can anyone confirm this?
-F.
I don't think they had purple stripes. Were these when they were in WMATA colors? When painted in Ride On colors, they had the blue with white stripes, like the other Ride On diesels did. Now, I believe some have been repainted to WMATA's new livery.
I see; thanks for the info. I assumed they would be done up in newer WMATA livery when they came back. There is a pic of 5167 or 5168 out there; IIRC, it was a night shot with an Orion V behind it, and I swear the Ride-On stripes looked purple. Then again, Baltimore had blue reflectives at one time that looked purple in a certain light, so that may have been the case with these as well.
-F.
They are indded in WMATA's new paint scheme. I see them often at Takoma and around Hyattsville. I have a pic of 5169 in WMATA's new colors at Takoma Metro station on the F2. If you guys want to see the pic - just let me know and I'll be happy to e-mail it.
Wayne
Wayne, that sounds great; before you send, about how many MB is the pic? I have limited space, so I need to make sure beforehand. Or perhaps you could post it here at the site?
-F.
It's 591 KB. I don't have any web space to post it.
BTW-I took this shot on 9/11/02 before I decided that it probably wasn't a good idea to be photographing buses at that time. The bus has the flag flying.
Wayne
Good point; that would have been highly suspicious on that day. I wanted to photograph our buses that day; although I know a lot of people at our TA that would prpbably let me, I just didn't have the time. I was all set to shoot no. 0104, which had a patriotic flag wrap on its sides, but unfortunately it has been removed.
I may, however, be able to shoot the special programming that ran on the Luminators between route designations. It read as follows:
ROANOKE....
REMEMBERS....
...OUR HEROES
Also, the fare on every route was free that day.
-F.
5165-5176 have been repainted in the new WMATA livery. They were sent to Landover, with 5165 being transferred to Bladensburg last year. 5175 has a bike rack, which is strange since none of Landover's other buses have yet to receive a bike rack. 5175 has had a bike rack for about a month and a half. These buses are most seen on Landover's routes 84, F13, F2, B24, F12, B25 and sometimes on the V14.
Which Flxible Metros are you talking about? 4 of them are actually Ride-Ons (the former LNG powered Flxibles at the MTA up in Baltimore, converted to diesel at WMATA's Bladensburg Division), the rest were the 30 foot WMATA Flxibles painted in Ride-On colors operating on Ride-On routes with WMATA employees. I don't know who got the revenue from these trips. The buses have since been returned to WMATA although I am not sure where (if) they are running.
No matter which ones you are talking about, I do not know the answer.
i never heard of that before or saw any 30 foot flixes in rideon colors.
They ran on the Bethesda 8 shuttle, the Silver Spring Shuttle and were used on a couple of routes from Shady Grove to Germantown and Poolesville. I used to see them all the time on I-370 coming out of Shady Grove. They were all stored at the Montgomery lot when this was going on, but have since been returned to their respective garages.
Sorry for the duplicate post. Didn't see yours. Great minds think alike I guess ;)
C
LOL, that's right!!!
I see; are they back in WMATA colors then?
-F.
They ran on the Bethesda-8 route before Ride-On took delivery of its trolley replica buses. They retained their WMATA fleet numbers (5160s and 5170s); they were probably in Ride-On livery for slightly less than a year.
C
Thanks; that is the info I recall seeing with a pic of one at night. Perhaps the reflection is what made the stripes purple? Usually they look to be light teal blue in day photos.
Also, how long will the 1993 40-foot Metros remain at Ride-On? And exactly what part of the DC area do those serve, and do they connect to WMATA? If so, do the connecting routes run Flxibles as well, or are they dominated by Orions? I hope to ride these one day.
-F.
Ride-On doesn't operate in DC, but some of the routes from Lytonsville do actually cross the border at Takoma and Friendship Heights. The 40 foot METRO's at Ride-On are based at Gaithersburg so they operate in Northern Montgomery which to my knowledge do have any routes that travel south of Bethesda.
Wayne
gaithersburg routes go as south as medical center but i'm not sure, there might be a route that goes even further.
70 and 47 both go to Bethesda. The T2 was operated from Gaithesburg until this September. I almost always run into the Metro-Ds on the 70 in the afternoon.
oh yea..70 does have metro D's and does run down to bethesda. i saw a flix on 70 up at middlebrook road 2 weeks ago
I seem to remember the 70 being a mostly Flx route when I went there in 1997; also, I think the 66 ran along that strip as well. I remember I rode 5207 from Chinatown travelling north towards MD but am not sure if I was heading towards Gaithersburg. There was a Wendy's on the left and a small record shop with bars on the windows to the right. From there, I caught 9813 heading southbound towards the Smithsonian. Can anybody spot where I was exactly?
-F.
Two different 70's! The Ride On 70 runs from Bethesda to Germantown. The WMATA 70 runs from Silver Spring to L'Enfant Plaza/Archives.
You were probably somewhere around Federal Triangle or the Archives if you were on the 66. The WMATA 70 uses mainly NABI artics and some Flxibles, the Ride On 70 uses Flxibles and Orions.
Actually, Ride-On operated the route with Orion Is from Lytonsville for quite some time before the trolley replicas came in. The Bethsda 8 Page of my site (not accessible due to carelessness on the part of the webmaster, soon to change) says that service began in September of 1999. The trolley replicas began in March 2001. So for about a year or so, the Orion Is were on the 92. During that time, the Flixble Metros were on the 28, 36 (weekdays, weekends were done by ATE/Ryder), and some up county routes. I believe the 76 was one of them.
I was referring to the WMATAs striped for Ride-On. I didn't realize MetroBus employees drove these?
-F.
Oh yes - they were never out of WMATA's hands. Even though the were in Ride-On's color scheme. There was small lettering below the rub rail that identified WMATA as the owner. Also - WMATA B/O's in their regular WMATA uniform drove them.
Wayne
Oh, I see; I assumed the two were connected but never realized they were by that much. I never saw the WMATA lettering under the rub rail; is it shown on the ex-Baltimore units as well?
-F.
The ex-Baltimore units are DPWTs so the answer is no.
are you sure the new orions are 96"? they're noticably wider than the 1996-1998 orions but then again they're not AS wide as wmata's orions :/
like for example, the lenth of the bike racks can barely reach the headlights as they do in the older orions and the aisle is somewhat wider
All Orion V buses are 102" wide. The only Orions that are/were 96" wide is the Orion I (and, I think, the Orion II).
ride-on's orion V's from 1996 to 1998 are 96", there is such a thing.
Do you mean at Ride-On??? Because WMATA has some 30-foot Orion V's (3900 series) and they are definitely 96 inches wide.
Wayne
That is not true. In fact, the 30-foot Orion V (05.505) is available only in 96-inch width; the same was true for the 30-foot Orion I (01.501, 01.502) and of course, the tiny Orion IIs.
True that most 35- and 40-foot Orion Vs are 102 inches wide, but Orion absolutely built 96-inch width Vs in both those lengths. Madison Metro in Wisconsin, for instance, has some 1990 40x96 Orion Vs. There is a host of smaller transit systems with 35x96 Vs.
As for longer Orion Is, most of them were 96 inches wide. Take a look at the large fleet of 35- and 40-foot Is in Buffalo, Albany, and Indianapolis. All of those were 96 inchers.
Yeah, and South Portland Bus Service's Orion Vs are 30x96 Orion Vs...with rear windows...
Cleanairbus
Just saw this on eBay a minute ago; as we all know, Blitz of Chicago was the company which rebuilt a fair amount of NYCTA Fishbowls, but this is just awesome. It is a 1980 RTS-II 35 foot ex-Hertz shuttle, which has been totally rebuilt and now sports luxury seats and Alcoa wheels. The price is up there, but it's at least worth a look; you will find it there under "rts bus" in Search.
Also, there is a nice-looking 1981 Grumman 870 with a rebuilt 6V92 on there as well; I am in no way connected with the sellers, just wanted to let everyone know where to see pics of some nice buses.
Also, on the rebuilt/repowered RTSes in current NYC service with Alcoas, were those done in-house or by Blitz? Just curious.
-F.
Looks good.
NYCTA 7000 series were done in-house. The 7500 were sent out. I could be wrong, but I don't think Blitz did any RTS for NYCTA.
Midwest rebuilt the 7500 series ????
Wayne
I see; weren't the 7xxx-series originally a different number, or was that what they came with? Also, from the looks of the Blitz on eBay, the 7500s may very well have been through their shop..who knows.
-F.
Yes, both the 7000 and 7500 series had different numbers prior to rebuilding. Thses buses came from the 1981 (1201-PA1658, 2201-PA2579) and 1982 groups (PA1660-PA1858, PA2580-PA2704).
Wayne
Thanks Wayne; I seem to recall that information. Also, is 1201 still in the NYCTA Historical Fleet?
-Fred
yes it is. in fact i have a pic of it on my refrigerator from this years bus rodeo.
The 7000 rebuilds were performed in house, primarily at 207th Street and East New York. The 7500's were rebuilt by MidWest Bus; none of which were done by Blitz. If you look at the two, you can definitely say that the 7500's received more attention to their remanufacture.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Mark, the 7500s certainly do. You can notice more changes, at least in the photos I have seen.
-F.
SI limiteds are real timesavers(OK so there is more open roads). It seems like they are putting new limited routes on more SI routes, recently the S74 got a limited called S84. I have a feeling that the S78 is going to have a new LTD service, I would call it the S88, making LTD stops from St George to Richmond Av then all stops to Tottenville, would run to the ferry AM rush, Tottenville PM rush.
As for improvements on LTD's all over the city, some services should be expanded & some should have extended LTD portions. What would you guys do if you had the power to make improvements. This is what I would do[these are just my thoughts]. I think some of them are fine the way they are.
B6: Introduce weekend LTD service
B41: Start LTD service from Kings Plaza rather than Av N would have a stop at Ave S then go straight to Av N.
B44: Fine
B46: Start LTD service at Kings Plaza rather than Av H with stops at Flatbush Av, Av N and Flatlands Av.
M1: Increase service
M2: Extend hours of LTD service
M4: Should be switched with the M3 as the LTD service
M5: Fine
M15: Extend hours of LTD service
M98: Fine
M101: Would be local north of 155 St instead of 125 St since you have the M100 and local M101 buses.
Q4: Fine
Q5: Switch terminals of local/LTD buses
Q27: Should run both ways during the rush hours
Q43: Start at 165 St instead of 179 St
Q44: Fine
Q46: Should run both ways and become a all day LTD stop service
Q83: Fine
Q85: Switch terminals with locals/LTD's.
Bx1/2: Fine
Bx12: Inrtoduce weekend service
Bx41: Expand service to a all day and a weekend service
Bx55: Fine
S81: Fine
S84: Fine
S90: Fine
S91: Fine
S92: Fine
S93: Add a few more trips amd make it a full LTD route by eliminating local portion from Victory Blvd to College of SI.
S94: Extend LTD stop portion to Victory Blvd
S96: Create a AM LTD service towards the ferry
S98: Fine
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Create the S99 - Limited stop between SI Mall and Brooklyn - Making only the following stops:
SI Mall
Yukon Avenue
Arthur Kill Road
Amboy Road
Hylan Blvd and Richmond Avenue
Hylan and Nelson
Hylan and Guyon
Hylan and Tysens
Hylan and Ebbitts
Hylan and New Dorp Lane
Hylan and Lincoln
Hylan and Midland
Hylan and Jefferson
Hylan and Seaview
Hylan and Burgher
Hylan and Old Town
Hylan and Clove
Hylan and Steuben
Hylan and Narrows
Narrows and Fingerboard.
Bus could use artics - bring them to SI - the S79 is always packed with people between Brooklyn and SI - especially Mall Shoppers and elderly.
And this would be in both directions, all day.
I would also terminate it at 36 St vice 86 St and make it run both directions from 7a - 9p on weekdays, thaat of couese with better headways on the S79 of course
Well, unfortunately, don't count on artics coming to Staten Island, especially Yukon which has too few buses for their local routes to begin with, mainly because of the amount of express buses.
I'd create a LTD for the S78[would be called S88] before the S79[I'd also call it the S99] because the 78 is far longer and it could sure use it but 79 ridership is getting higher daily and its a good idea also. I thought about it too and riderships fot the two are comparable but a LTD for the 78 would come before the 79.
These would be the stops should the S88 become reality would run both ways but the hours are variable and runs weekdays only:
St George
Victory Blvd/Bay St
Tompkins Av/Canal St
Tompkins Av/Vanderbilt Av
Tompkins Av/Hylan Blvd
Stops via Hylan Blvd
Steuben St
McClean Av
Clove Rd
Old Town Sta
Seaview Av
Midland Av
New Dorp La
Tysens La
Guyon Av
Bay Terrace
Nelson Av
Richmond Av
Then all stops to Tottenville
These would be my stops if the S99 were created. Hours would be variable:
86 St/4 Av
92 St/Ft Hamilton Pkwy
Steuben St/Hylan Blvd
Stops via Hylan Blvd
Clove Rd
McClean Av
Clove Rd
Old Town Sta
Seaview Av
Midland Av
New Dorp La
Tysens La
Guyon Av
Bay Terrace
Nelson Av
Richmond Av
Richmond Av/Eltingville sta
Then all stops to SI Mall
Comments. Critcism. Compliments. Holla back
Ok, I made my comments on LTD buses. I would like to know when LTD service came out on some routes, yes I do know when some were introduced but I would like to know when the following routes was introduced with LTD service:
M1,M2,M4,M5,M15,M101,Q4,Q5,Q43,Q46,Q83,Q85,BX12 and BX41 and LTD bus M98.
Alos, did the S91 & S92 start out as local bus routes converted to LTD's or were they LTD's already(I think they came out in the late 80's). Thanx for any info.
I don't know about most of those.
I do remember that the M98 was born in the mid-80's. The M2 Limited began in the late 80's. (At the same time, IIRC, the M101, which had had both locals and limiteds, became limited-only during the hours it ran.) I think the M5 Limited came around the same time, or perhaps, like on the M101, there were both limiteds and locals beforehand. The M1, M4, and M15 are older. I'm sure any errors I've made will be promptly corrected.
Does anyone remember the short-lived M7 Limited trial? When did the M10 Limited cease to exist? Have there ever been any Manhattan crosstown limiteds?
Which garage runs route 37? I'm looking at 2 pictures where one is a 40 ft. CNG running 37 and another picture where a non-CNG 40 footer orion V is running the same route. non-cng 40 footers were never at gaithersburg and lytonnsville cant fuel CNG.
Let me guess, my website?
If you waited a bit, you would see a picture of 5545 (an Orion I) on the 37 as well, it will be there when I make access to my new server available.
Ride-On 37 is one of very few routes to be split between garages. The 70 used to be but is no longer. In the mornings, trips operate from the Gaithersburg garage. They then run on the 43 and 90 later in the day. In the evenings, trips operate from Silver Spring. I got a picture of 5706 on the 37 in the morning because it was on loan to Gaithersburg since Gaithersburg was short buses.
The 70 used to be from Gaithersburg in the morning and from Silver Spring in the evening. One 70 run started at Holy Child and ran as a 36 to Bethesda before heading up 270.
now thats a lucky route to get to see all the variaties of ride-on's busses. It's almost impossible to find a gillig up here in northern montgomery county, though it's not as rare as the VI or Flix. I was pretty damn lucky to have boarded a VI at twinbrook about a month ago.
There are quite a few Gilligs assigned up north. The 37 used to get them all the time, although Orions are far more plentiful. I haven't seen either VI since July or so although I have some (not so great) pictures of it.
Yea, I would like to know does anybody have a copy of a portfolio of information regarding Flxible Corp. including brochures of their METRO buses. If so I would like copies of the METRO "B","D" and "E" please. Ofcourse, I'm waaaaaaaaaaay to late of having my copy. That is because I didn't subscibe to METRO magazine or BusRide to ask for a portfolio of information reguarding Flxible's products at the time and I wasn't deeply in the transit industry because I was in my middle teens.
This would be absolutely great to have in my collection/records. Being a Flxible fan I wish I had brochures or their buses along time ago. Hopefully, you fellow bus fans have spare copies or can print out the the information including the brochures. I will check this site tommorrow of your responses or you could e-mail me. Thank you alot and have a great day!
-Ronnie
"Flxible Nut"
I am still confused by the B-68 transfer policy. Is this only for metrocard cust., inasmuch as a bus-issued transfer is usually not valid for subway entry? Also, is this a train-bus-train transfer, unlike the B-39 which is a bus-train-bus(only) transfer? Thanks.
It's only for MetroCard users, and as far as I am aware it also works bus/bus/train or train/bus/bus(for those who, for example, take the B74 to the B68 to the Q train or vice versa).
David
Thanks, David. In other words, as long as the train is the first or last leg, the transfer is valid. How about train/train, with re-entry at either Stillwell, Brighton BCH or Avenue X ? For instance, F to Ave.X, then shuttle bus (free), then train? Or, conversely, W to Still., Shuttle, then F?
I don't have all the ins and outs of the transfer policy handy. Call NYC Transit Travel Information at 718-330-1234 any time of day -- people there can probably explain it better than I can (unfortunately, I couldn't find anything about it on the MTA website).
David
Thanks, again, David. As for your suggestion to Contact travel info.......
One of the things I've always thought that could be neat would be to propose to my g/f by having a bus flash this across its destination sign. Is this even possible? I guess its kind of silly, but I thought it could be kind of different to say the least. I'm williing to pay to charter the bus out (It would have to be done with WMATA here in DC), but I didn't know if this is a nightmare to reprogram or if this can be done with little ease? If this isn't possible, I'll probably just wait until we go to Disney World and hook up something with a nice restaurant down there. I'm not thinking of doing this for a couple of months anyway.
Thanks in advance.
If WMATA is anything like NYCT, operators cannot program the destination sign to anything other than is already pre-programmed (can you imagine??).
That said, it may not be a dead end. This sounds like a great "PR Stunt", one that an agency may be interested in. It wouldn't hurt to contact the carrier and explain the situation. They may have a bus pre-programmed and change the sign one stop before you board.
Doesn't hurt to ask...
Thanks for your help! I went and emailed them through their customer service link, so maybe that will shed some light too.
I'm sure you and other bus operators would have a ball if you could program at will. LOL. That would definitely be a good stress reliever.
Well... with all of the bus rides you've taken her on... she may be expecting it! Just kidding:-). Anyways... Good luck with it.
Wayne
LOL, she alluded to that at one point and I was like, D'OH! Thanks for the well wishes! I'll definitely figure something good out.
Not easily done.
You would have to program the sign in the agency's office, or whenver they usually do it -- the programming is fed into a device known as an MTU (Mobile Transfer Unit). The MTU is then hooked to the destination signs, and whatever you wanted to say would have to have been programmed in with a correspondign number reading.
Drivers cannot do it on the road.
I had a feeling it wasn't going to be easy. I knew it was going to be a far-flung idea, but fun nonetheless!
Actually, a friend of mine has the programming and the MTU. I don't know where he acquired it, but he used some used bus destination signs in his business (nothing to do with the bus industry).
He did program a bunch of destinations from all over the country into my regular bus one day, so we had a little fun for a few months until maintenance reprogrammed the thing as part of a system service change. It was fun to go down the route with "Bx1 Concourse-138th Street" (A MABSTOA sign) way out here in southern California. We had signs from NYC, Seattle Muni, and Las Vegas plus our regular set of signs.
The newer sign sets CAN be programmed to keep all the original destinations and add others into a different "1000" set of numbers in the keypad, so all the "fun" signs were done a few hundred above the official set so nobody'd find them. (Yes, we even put on in there that said "F*** YOU!" Never did go down the street with it, but the last day before the service change, left the bus sitting in the yard with that one set so when the fuelers fired it up...hehehehe!!!)
LOL, that must have been fun to see the reactions of people who had to take a doubletake at the destination. I'm guessing a lot of peole were oblivious to it, but you deserve to have some fun with it! Too bad you didn't have a hidden camera to see the fueler's reaction the F*** YOU sign!!!
That's cool that the capabilities are out there. I got an email message back from WMATA to call the charter dept. so I'll try to contact them in the next couple of weeks.
Stay safe!
That's correct, so with enough money by the requestor, it could be done.
I'd definitely be willing to pony up some money if I had to! : )
You could have the bus announcer, annouce it over the bus's public address system, hoping to get a bus with one working.
That's an idea, too! Hmmm, something to consider there. I thought picking out the freakin' wedding band was going to be tough enough!
Hah! I never had any problem wondering about where to do it, what band to buy. We just decided one afternoon to run over to the county courthouse and make it legal. Still happy after 10 years too!
That's great, Steve. Its nice to hear stories like that. We've talked about eloping here and there, and boy would that save a ton of money, but I think we are going to do a ceremony, not a huge one though. Actually, the one place that seemed interesting and she liked it too, was the B & 0 RR museum in Baltimore in their roundhouse!
I remember a few years ago, a couple got married on a Tri-Met Flxible Fishbowl. They charterd the bus out of course. Now my question is, wouldent your fiance (sp?) think your a nut by proposing and or getting married on a bus?
She already thinks I am. : ) I think having the bus involved would probably take the cake so to speak. I know she'd think only me would do something like that. haha.
I wish I remembered the name of the driver of the J4, I once rode who discovered he could use the announcement system, boy I bet he had fun on the return trip to Bethesda. He might give you the whole setup including a possible song.
Wow! That would be fun! I was given the charter number by WMATA's customer service, so I'll try to call them soon.
The area Orions have programed announcements, so again with enough money from the requestor, it could be done.
I wonder if the "announcer" is actually reading from the destination sign or if it is a separate unit. Our agency says they cannot retrofit older buses with the announcers as it "takes up too much room" and the buses WITH the announcing system have a rather sizeable closet behing the driver housing the system. The headsigns DO change using a control on the announcing system....so I think that is ALL that is coordinated is the route profile/headsign reading number.
We have programmable headsigns in our entire fleet...and in the past year have gotten the announcing buses. Yet what the announcement is saying never coordinates with anything in the headsign other than the route number. The stops being announced are GPS coordinated -- funny thing is, you go on a detour, if it IS on a street with a route, it announces the stops correctly.
If you really want to get a laugh though, the announcer is a computer voice, and reads certain syllables/letter combinations certain ways. It REALLY can make an abomination of the Spanish-named (and other) streets in our area (which there are all too many of). One that got a big laugh -- even from the Spanish-speaking customers -- we have a street called Jeronimo Road. Everyone pronounces it just like the Apache that we've always heard it called. Jerr-ON-ih=moe. Not the talking bus!!! On the bus, it's Jee-roe-NIGH-moe. (Many of our Spanish speaking customers substitute an "H" for the "J" at the beginning as their native language customarily does. But Jeronimo was an Apache, not a Mexican!!)
Why stop with the destination sign? Get a chauffer's license and drive the bus also. LOL
Michael
Washington, DC
I do actually have a CDL still from my days at Univ. of MD. I've always thought about driving again part time, but I don't know where or what I'd do. I wouldn't want to work every waking moment, I do enough hours at this job! But, that is definitely one license I'll never get rid of.
Yeah, hold on to the license, you'll always have something to fall back on.
But give SERIOUS thought to driving a public transit bus. It's unfortunate, but nowadays, most people look down on you, expect their asses kissed, you have the scum of the earth getting on the bus coughing - sneezing - hacking all over you, and then you have the whiners right here in this forum ('specially about MTA LI Bus....) who cry about every damn little thing that goes wrong....but you NEVER heard if they had a good trip. Sure, the money's good, but buses are NOT what life is all about.
It's funny, because I was talking to the guy that I'm buying the ring from at the jewlery store today and he mentioned that he drove buses in MA. It wasn't for the "T", but it was for a Univesity Sytem there. It could have been UMASS, but it was cool to talk about it. Of course, it all started because of the awful tragedy of today.
I'm definitely keeping that license. Its a shame that transit drivers aren't respected more by the passengers and motorists. I think it has a lot to do with our weird society of today.
I bump into a lot of WMATA drivers in the Ballston mall across from my apt. as its a big bus layover point and the Arlington garage is across the street, so you see them cutting through the mall or grabbing a quick bite and I always try to say hi if I can. If they're eating or whatever, I don't bother them and a lot of times they are kind of zoning, but its cool to see them around.
Keep up the good work there Steve. Here's one person that will always respect what you do for a living.
Got one for YOU!!
I used to live sort of in the Ballston area myself....the exact address was 2235 North Upton Street, just north of Lee Highway, east of Glebe Road.
I remember seeing the WMATA facility in Arlington -- but can't remember exactly where it was. Could you refresh my memory on that one?
Used to walk down Glebe Road to the WMATA Orange Line (that's what it was in 1981, is it still?) at your namesake station, near the Hecht store a block away. I think the "Subway" sandwich shop there was the first one I ever tried.
Oh well....hopefully this sniper thing will blow over, the law will take care of the creep, and peoples' lives can get somewhat normal again.
Oh, ok, that's not far from where I am. I live about two blocks from the Ballston Metro at 9th and N. Randolph. The Arlington garage is on Wilson Blvd. between N. Randolph and Quincy St. There is a Shell station right next to it.
When I was a kid, I used to come out this way and always take a walk by the bus garage just to take a peak at what was over before heading over to the mall. It was just a regular old looking shopping center before they put a roof on it and tried to upscale it a little bit. The Hecht's is still there, but the JC Penny's is gone. A Hecht's furniture store is going in its place.
I would never want to try to program a special message onto one of our NYC RTS buses with the "bleeding" signs that have half of one message, and half of another.
"Q17 ARCHER MARRY ME"
LOL, yeah, that could provide for some interesting wrong messages. haha. : )
So far today, I had a busy time here in Philly watching the buses as they go hither and yon in the big city.
First, a rather unpretty sight, watching a bus die in the middle of the street. I saw Neo Artic 7113 expire in a cloud of smoke. The poor thing stopped at 16th and Market, discharged its passengers, then heard the engine just die. After the driver tried to start it up again, I saw smoke spew out of its engine compartment. Once the driver opened up the compartment, he pronounced the bus dead in its tracks.
Second, remember the ex-NYCT RTS I saw last week? Well I got a closer look at the bus and noticed a couple of things. The bus now belongs to a company doing the Park Towne Place run. It is numbered 234, but the distinct MTA paint scheme have been left intact. By looking real closely at the spots where the fleet number was, and by looking inside the coach as it was loading passengers, I managed to get the number - 3879. Now my question is this, Where in NYC did this bus originally came from? Was it a Bronx, Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, or Manhattan bus?
Last and not least, I think they will be shooting scenes from the TV series "Hack" at 18th and Market. That's a corner where you'll see a lot of SEPTA variety, like NABI's, Flyers, and Neoplans.
was Neo Artic 7113 on fire or dead broke down for the week.
BTW Netscape 7 sucks
was Neo Artic 7113 on fire or dead broke down for the week.
Out here in Nassau yestrday, there was a breakdown on the N27, so the 2:30pm out of Roosevelt Field was cancelled and those riders had to wait for the 3:30pm. Up in Greenvale, I saw the dead bus being towed away from Glen Cove, #372.
So what engine was 7113 using?
nyct 3879 is an exs taten island coach from castleton.
Thank you so much for this very vital LI Bus information that no one could live without.
3879 should be noticable in respect to the seats. It should have the suburban seating (cushioned seats with higher backs.) 3879 was out of Castleton back in the day running on Express routes.
Here`s a couple of updates:
7113 has a Series 50 engine. After a roving mechanic came down and tinkered with the vehicle, it moved under its own power back to Allegheney Depot.
The RTS did NOT have the express seats. It had the usual 2-tone blue hard seats.
oh ok i throught the whole bus destroy or something.the ddc 50 in artics is know to catch fire.
I think NYCT had some fires in their Orions, I'm not sure but I think they were ddc S50 powered.
Give me a nice silver 92 anyday!
I think he was referring to the Neo artics, not necesarily the S50 engine itself. There have been at least 3 or 4 engine fires on the Neoplans that I can recall in the past 2-3 years. I'd have to check my archives to verify which buses were involved.
i forgot what artic was involve but i think it was 7180 not to sure the engine catch on fire.when the first engine catch on fire the buses was brand new.It must be a fault or a defelt.
[The RTS did NOT have the express seats. It had the usual 2-tone blue hard seats.]
Sounds to me like 3879 was one of the RTSs that went through a conversion from soft seats to hard seats. ISTR that some of the early GM RTS buses went through that process; I believe that some 3800s that were used on S.I. express routes were converted to hard seaters before being retired.
no theses buses were not converted except for bus 3828. nyct is not spending money on seat conversions. perhaps the buyer converted the seats.
And 3895. That was converted to soft seats as well prior to its scrapping.
#3828 M4
You mean hard seats - I remember riding on 3895 in Manhattan and it had hard plastic seats last year.
The Series 50 has alot of problems doesn't it? All the NYCT buses I've seen broken down have been Series 50 powered. And even though I haven't seen too many breakdowns at LI Bus, the ones I have seen lately have been with the 300s (series 50G powered).
S50 is a 4 cylinder engine, so it's no suprise it's a bit less reliable than the 6 bangers out there.
The NYCT Orions that were lost due to fires, were they Series 50 powered?
they were buses 125 and 473 and perhaps others.
And finally, it seems that Krapf's lost the contract to run the 2601 Parkway shuttle bus. Now it seems that the Philly Trolley Works has the contract. I saw an International cutaway on that route today. PTW now runs both the Philadelphian and 2601 Parkway shuttle buses.
Here's a thought for an aspect of the MTA restructuring that might actually help balance the city's budget:
1. (old idea) Have MTA take over NYCDOT's bus routes, including title to the physical buses and the city-owned garages. This allows for a unified network of bus routes.
2. (new idea) Have NYCDOT take over Bridges & Tunnels. This would consolidate maintenance crews AND allows the city, which bears the social costs of the facilities - congestion, pollution, etc. - to finally reap a true financial benefit from them.
Of course, the suburbs would howl over losing their cash cow. Tough.
Any thoughts?
Has anyone ridden in any of Arlington's buses with the new fareboxes yet? If you did, what do they look. 1C BALLSTON, have you ridden one of them yet?
I haven't seen any of them yet. I thought they were supposed to be out soon, but then the announcement was pulled from the website. I was on 2150 and 2152 on Saturday, both Arlington Orions, but they had the old fareboxes. I hope they come out soon.
Aren't the Neo Artics to come out this month, too??
Did you still want to do the busfan thing at the beginning of NOv?
oh yeah, when DO the neoplan artics come out and where will they be sent?
I had read that sometime in October they were to come out and I also thought they were to be used for Redskins Shuttles when they were to be inaugurated, but not sure if that happed. Delays are common, though and maybe there's some things holding up the delivery of them.
They will probably be split between Montgomery, Bladensburg and Northern, I'd think to replace whoever has the MAN's.
I'm ready whenever you guys are. I'll be taking several days off in the near future as my vacation leave reached the limit (36 days).
Wayne
Great, I'm all set. I think WES mentioned one of the Saturdays coming up in the next couple of weeks. The only weekend that wont be good is after Nov. 21. I'm having surgery to fix my deviated septum. : ( I think I'm going to look like I was on the wrong end of a Mike Tyson punch when its all done.
I was supposed to take vacation from October 27 thru November 3rd, but due to having noone help my assistant cover my store, it will be delayed about a couple of weeks, and it will be before the week of Thanksgiving. I will let you know when I can soon.
Great, that sounds good!
I feel sorry if they are the GFI Odyssey boxes. They are a royal pain in the arse. Forget about running on time....passengers have to fight with the bills to get them to work, and the coin slots jam all the time too. And if you have to print them a pass/transfer with the GFI Odyssey, add 6-10 seconds per passenger for that.
I spoke with the GFI people at the APTA Expo in Las Vegas last month. Or rather, I tried to. They don't want to hear from drivers who deal with their poorly designed product. They just want to hear from transit agencies waving mega bucks in their face.
I think they are to be built by Cubic. The one thing I did remember reading in WMATA's press release was that you wont be able to use pennies, but you could use other coins. That's going to suck if someone is digging up change and you can only find $.05 in pennies to make up the rest of the fare. They will be outfitted to use the Smartrip card used on the rail, but not everyone has one of those.
I wasn't able to catch the number or see the seats without running the risk I hit the car in front of me or the car behind me rear ending me, not to mention the bus just had to pass me where River Road narrows down from two to one lanes (just outside the beltway) but the number appeared to be 439X. The T2 is a local route on which suburban style seating actually works (prior to Smartmover starting, the T2 ran the SM Orion Vs and the RTSs got a few weeks of rest, I got 4410 a few times during that stretch) although I could not see if it was in fact high backed seating on that bus. Chances are it won't be back tomorrow since the T2 does not normally run Orions other than the 1993s.
Also, if the other DC BusTalkers had not heard, the two men detained in VA this morning were not connected to the sniper. I do hope we can return to some state of normalcy really soon.
Hello All:
I know it seems like I've disappeared off the face of the earth (Though I know a few people wish I would), WELL ITS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN! Only Kidding.
But on the real, I just completed moving to a new home and returning back from my trip to Chicago. TransiTALK will be updated within 15-30 days of this posting. I should have my internet connection re-established in the new home in about 7 days.
'Til Then
Everyone Stay Safe and Continue Supporting Transit!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Congrats on your new home! Glad all is well
What a coincidence... I just moved this weekend from NJT Oradell/Rockland Coaches territory (Teaneck) to Lakeland(!) territory, near Lake Hopatcong. I still work in Bergen County though, so will stll get my regular fix of NJT equipment.
Good luck with the new digs, Trevor - I feel your pain as far as moving is concerned!
welcome back. youve been missed on bustalk.
Welcome back T-Dogs! Good luck with your new place. You've been missed here. Glad to see that you're back in the saddle.
#1979 X1
I'm sorry, I did not even notice...LOL! Just kidding! Welcome back. Good to hera from you. Can't wait to hear updates on Coach USA's Red&Tan Bus Lines!
All over news this morning a Ride-On bus is the focal point of the most recent shooting in Aspen Hill , a part of Silver Spring , Maryland. I couldn't make out the bus # that well but it looked like 3075. I hope that the shooter is caught soon and that the most recent victims survive.
Troy
It looks like the bus number is 5705.
Troy
Yes, it's 5705 which is a '99 40-foot Orion from Ride-On's Lytonsville depot. With the police stopping traffic and all I thought I'd have problems getting to work, but to my suprise I didn't run into too much traffic. Lots of police cars near schools in The District this morning. In Montgomery county... police running back and forth.
Wayne
It depended on where you were going. I had no problem, other people I knew, especially those who use the Legion Bridgem or come from PG County, had one hell of a commute.
Oh yes - I was sure of that this morning. It seems that anyone who lived outside the beltway ran into lots of traffic. One of my co-workers that lives in Wheaton (about 4 miles north of me) didn't make it to work until 9:30 AM and I was at my desk by 8:30 AM. I left my house at the usual 7:45 AM.
They really need to catch this nutcase.
Wayne
Amen. I was hoping to visit DC soon, but not with that going on. However, mine is a very minute problem compared to what the poor guy in the Orion faced yesterday near Silver Spring.
-F.
There are rumors that the bus driver was the victim this time though they are not confirmed.
shooting happened at 556am just off route 495 which i believe is capital beltway. police again cordoned off the area but have yet to catch shooter. victim is believed to be a passenger taken to maryland hospital. cnn is following this latest shooting believed to be the work of the sniper. last victim has also survived.
That is correct. The bus # is 5705 a Ride-On 40-ft. Orion V. Behind the bus is WMATA's Flxible METRO "E" series coach 4092. A Detroit Diesel series 50 powered 1995 bus. All this hype is given to the Ride-On Orion V bus. What about WMATA's Flxible bus. I have not heard a damn word mentioned about my favorite bus.
Funny, this crime involving these two buses are becoming popular in this country. I mean step aside the commercials we see with buses in them. The one that I like is the Nextel commercial when they show the RTSs roaming up with the ads. That commercial of that NYPD Blue guy tickles me!
Again, Ride-On coach #5705: a Orion V 40 footer and WMATA coach 4092: a 1995 Flxible METRO "E" series powered by a series 50 DDC engine are FAMOUS!!!
I feel for the B/O's loved ones. It's getting dangerous for everyone these days.
BTW- Ride-On's 5705 has the same engine. I see this bus quite often (and I've ridden on it a few times). I'll always remember that someone lost their life aboard this bus.
Wayne
My heart goes out to the family and co-workers of the Bus Operator, Can someone supply the address of the depot he was working from? Several B/O's from the Gun Hill Depot would like to send a card to the depot. Thanks........
I know the garage for that route came out of Lyttonsville. I went onto Ride Ons website, and they don't have an address for the actual garage, but I do have a phone number for you, the main number, which is 240-777-7433. Through the website there is also email information as well.
I hope this helps. Its a sad day for all today. Keep up the good work up there!
i heard the driver was shot during his layover.
I don't know if you saw my post, but I have determined he was scheduled to drive the 5:57 34 from Aspen Hill to Bethesda. I am almost certain this would have been his first interval (just because the media says it was doesn't mean that it was) so he would have driven up from Lytonnsville to Aspen Hill, probably on Georgia Avenue, and gotten there a few minutes before. A WMATA bus was there too, an L8 although I have not consulted the schedule to figure out which trip that was. I have only seen one picture of the WMATA bus but it was a Metro-E, presumebly 4092 (which would work, it is a Montgomery Division bus and the L8 comes from Montgomery).
I would assume that bus will be taken out of service for a good while, considering what happened. Then again, it does look completely operable.
I see what you mean about memory, though; about a year ago, a local business owner stepped out into a crosswalk without looking, and the driver could not stop in time. Next thing we know, THUD. I was riding the bus at the time and gave my account of what happened to the TA, police, etc.; clearly it was not the driver's fault, but it shook him up nonetheless. The guy was comatose for a long time but healed eventually and at last count was out to sue the city and the TA for something that was his own fault.
The bus itself was brand new and suffered very minor damage; a broken wiper arm and a scratch inthe paint where the wiper assembly bounced back. The bus was back on the road that afternoon, complete with a mended arm. Every time I see Gillig no. 0102 pull up, I will never forget that day.
-F.
I did not realize the Metro was a WMATA unit; I could only see the roof and thought it was a Ride-On. Mostly, I focused on the news topic itself and was shocked as hell. I hope someone catches that fruit loop and gives him or her what they deserve.
-F.
That is correct. The bus # is 5705 a Ride-On 40-ft. Orion V. Behind the bus is WMATA's Flxible METRO "E" series coach 4092. A Detroit Diesel series 50 powered 1995 bus. All this hype is given to the Ride-On Orion V bus. What about WMATA's Flxible bus. I have not heard a damn word mentioned about my favorite bus.
Funny, this crime involving these two buses are becoming popular in this country. I mean step aside the commercials we see with buses in them. The one that I like is the Nextel commercial when they show the RTSs roaming up with the ads. That commercial of that NYPD Blue guy tickles me!
Again, Ride-On coach #5705: a Orion V 40 footer and WMATA coach 4092: a 1995 Flxible METRO "E" series powered by a series 50 DDC engine are FAMOUS!!!
-Ronnie
I cannot fathom the thoughts within this forum....today's incident shows it all the more. The same train of thought was displayed on 9/11/01 in this forum. Someone had the audacity to say they were sorry to see some buses damaged then, but never mentioned a thought about the thouasands of people who perished or were injured. All they worried about was the stinking buses. GEEZ!!!
You people worry about a stinking piece of crap bus, when in today's incident, a life was taken, that of the driver....and NOBODY seems to give a damn about that, just the "poor bus". I happen to be a bus driver, and I could care less what kind of bus, engine, or whatever was involved.
The thing is, a human being died today, a bus driver. My heart goes out to his family, and I don't give one iota of a crap what kind of bus it was.
you are absolutely right. i was going to post the same thing. i believe the type of bus should not be discussed. we should just send our condolences. this was a 35 year old man, father of two who just happened to be a bus driver cut down by a madman.
[i believe the type of bus should not be discussed. we should just send our condolences. this was a 35 year old man, father of two who just happened to be a bus driver cut down by a madman.]
I am sure that all of us here on BusTalk are so sorry to learn about the unfortunate incident cutting down the life of a bus driver, and do send our condolences to his family and friends. I don't think any discussions about the bus number or related bus info takes away from the extreme grief we all have for those who knew this driver nor detracts from the sympathy we offer. There are those who would want to know this information, and the sharing of such knowledge should not be looked upon as any disrespect for the fact that a valuable life was lost here and that this madman needs to be stopped immediately.
[I am sure that all of us here on BusTalk are so sorry to learn about the unfortunate incident cutting down the life of a bus driver, and do send our condolences to his family and friends. I don't think any discussions about the bus number or related bus info takes away from the extreme grief we all have for those who knew this driver nor detracts from the sympathy we offer. There are those who would want to know this information, and the sharing of such knowledge should not be looked upon as any disrespect for the fact that a valuable life was lost here and that this madman needs to be stopped immediately.]
Sid,
Thanks so much for your statement in response to that insensitive (and closed minded) statement. When I read what that post I was a bit angry at first, but I decided not to respond in anger. While I'm on the topic... The think BusTalk (and SubTalk) are great sites that I've participated in since the start of BusTalk... and SubTalk since 1996. Many of us come here to share/learn information in a friendly manner. However, there always seems to be a few people who insist on hurling insults, sarcasm and/or passing judgement on others. It seems these people are extra bold behind the safety of a cyberwall.
Wayne
Steve, you are absolutely right, there are too many losers here who would cry for a bus over a person. I remember the fire truck incident in Brooklyn, where the driver was ejected through the windshield. Being an Transit Worker at the time, I was probably one of the 1 percent who critized Larry Reuter for stating the driver should have had his seat belt on. There was 20 percent who recognized a life was taken, a widow was grieving, kids would become fatherless and hungry, and the rest of the board cried because of the destruction of a bus. MY heart goes out to the familes of the driver lost in duty, the innocent civilians taken out and I hope they catch the damned bastard with the rifle.
Hey, Don't call busses "stinking piece of crap bus". This IS bustalk afterall....
Buses DO stink. Especially a lot of the people they carry.
And there are a good many buses that ARE pieces of crap. I just went in and complained to my base manager last week about one that was, and he reassigned me a good one (I drive the same bus every day). Now I can actually keep the schedule and get my passengers to work on time.
Believe me, after you've driven buses for 29 years, as I have, you can call a bus a piece of crap. I have driven just about everything out there except Orions, and that includes tour/charter buses as well as stick-shift GM old looks.
What's it like driving a D60? Is it as good as NYCT B/O's make it out to be?
I don't know about D60's...but I do drive D60LF's....and they are nice. A tad slow with the DD Series 50 -- a little better with the Cummins ISC. They handle well, and the newest ones ride better than the earlier ones. I had a freeway run and was getting one of our first batch, and the way the suspension was, I felt like I was in a rocking chair when going down the freeway at 65 miles an hour!!!
With that said, do you still consider yourself a busfan?
Sorry to say, Little by little, bus fans are turning me off more and more. It's gotten to the point with the way many have behaved (or rather MISbehaved...) when visiting on my bus that I don't allow 99% of them to do so any more. I simply don't let anyone know what route I am operating any more.
On one occasion I was driving a busy route as my regular assignment. A bunch from LA just happened to find me. This bunch consists of half a dozen "fans" who must be 350 lbs. minimum apiece, and not a one appears to have done laundry recently. They take up all the front seats right behind the driver. All they did was talk trash about the transit agency. They also refused to move (in accordance with ADA regulations) to make room for seniors and disabled, I finally had to tell them either sit in the back or leave the bus.
Then a bus fan from the east coast came out here, and got on my bus. All I can say about this one is THANK GOD THE AIR CONDITIONER WORKED!!! This guy stunk so bad it was making my stomach turn. This was NOT just one day's worth of not bathing -- I think this guy gave it up altogether. Luckily, it was on my last trip and I had only three miles to go.....
Also Steve, being that this IS bustalk, why are you getting all offended by Metro505's post? At Least it was on topic, unlike some parts of this board.
Simply because he puts a piece of machinery over a human life.
There are two children, and a widow that can never see their dad/husband again.
A bus can always be replaced. A human life cannot.
Not to mention, the bus does not appear to have any damage. It probably has been siezed by police for some time but should return to service. I am sure if someone sees it they will post it here.
This is true; the police detain buses long enough to investigate the damage. In fact, I was reminded of that this morning on the way to work; the one I needed to get there on had been smacked into by a guy on a motorcycle. The officer met the driver at the station, inspecting the side and asking her questions, as did a supervisor from the TA.
I phoned into my job and told my boss what happened, and though I was 15 minutes late, he was understanding. Meanwhile, everyone on the bus griped and complained that they were late for work. I thought to myself, "Come on, folks...these guys had to do their job. Just like you do".
Ah, I see your reasoning...
This is true. And even if the vehicle is a favorite, you will always have the memories of riding or driving it. Besides, who is to say that you can't find another like it one day?
For example, I love our restored Grumman 870 at the museum; I have fond memories of riding it since I was very little, and I learned how to count on one when my Dad (God rest his soul) was doing ridership census for our TA. What's more, I have put a lot of time and TLC into helping restore it. However, if it cought on fire tomorrow, I would be more concerned for my dear friends inside than I would about saving the bus; THEY would come first.
Another example that happened in real life: When I was growing up, my Mom had a 1975 Dodge Dart. It was her first new car, and the very one that got me into cars. Much of my childhood was spent admiring this car, helping Dad change filters, and polishing it nearly every day. Then when I was 12, a lady pulled out in front of it, and the car was totalled. I cried all day and thought it was the end of the world. To me, It just COULDN'T be replaced. But looking back, Mom and Dad were okay, and that's what really mattered.
Just a few weeks ago, to what do my wondering eyes appears? A 75 Dodge Dart. Same color, same seats, same wheels...what a find. No WAY this guy would ever sell it, I thought, but I asked anyway.
I am proud to say that I am now the new owner of that same vehicle...and it is just exactly like the one that was my favorite car in the world. The one that I thought would never be replaced.
-F.
Yes. During these times of tragedy, especially when a bus driver doing the job he loves is killed, I don't know how you could talk about the model of the bus & related things. There's a time where you have to put the busfan side of ourselves on hold. Who cares about the damn bus, its still alive but the driver, Conrad Johnson, RIP, is no longer alive. Now the wife doesn't have a husband & his 2 sons lost their father and some of you are worried more about a "boxed" vehicle, what a shame!
Steve, I see your point; while it is interesting to us in our own minds what kind of buses, etc. were shown on TV or wherever, the matter at hand is that a life was lost. And, with all due respect to those who know the numbers, engines, etc., THAT is absolutely the main concern.
Perhaps we as BusTalkers should collectively offer a sympathy card, etc. to send to the victim's family to show our regrets for their loss. I don't know how we could set it up, but it's the least we can do for them at this tragic time of their lives.
-F.
My heart goes out to the driver's family as well as all other vicitim's families and loved ones.
I also want to give my best to all bus operators and everyone on here. Its a very scary time down here and i cherish every moment I'm on this Earth.
I'm with you dude. I just found out by looking at the T.V. screen here at the Main Library that it was a bus driver that got shot while standing on top of the step. I went to CNN.com and found out about it. All the drivers around the Maryland, Virginia, and D.C. area now must keep an eye out particularly at night because the sniper is unpredictable. I know this news will stir up some commotion on the transit systems. I pray for you guys out. Stay safe and keep busen.
-Ronnie
Just found out the driver has passed away. Very sad news to the community, transit authority, bus drivers in that region, bus drivers across the country, bus and transit fans, and people.
-Ronnie
I just read it too. This is so awful.
cnn states driver killed. cbs states driver critical and clinging to life as of 12 noon. lets hope the latter is true. this madman almost makes the son of sam appear sane.
I have been seeing conflicting things as well. Makes me so sick.
Speaking of that, the Son of Sam has issued a statement asking this sniper to stop. Saw this on MSNBC's website.
It was 5705, a 1999 Orion V. I believe I rode that bus in November...
From www.rideonbus.com:
Service Interruptions
Page Updated --- Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:00 P.M.
DELAYS
Due to an incident at Connecticut and GrandPre some Ride-On buses are running late or delayed at this time.
.
DETOURS (See below for long term detours)
Route 26 to Glenmont will make a left on Georgia to Bel-Pre, right turn on Bel-Pre resume normal route. Route 26 to Twinbrook stay on Bel-Pre to Georgia Ave left on Georgia Ave to Conn. Ave make right resume normal route.
Route 41 to Grand-Pre, Conn. to Georgia Ave make left on Georgia to Bel-Pre turn right to Conn. Ave make left at Conn. at Fire House use firehouse ramp to turn around.
MISSED TRIPS
None at this time.
Special Notice-Tuesday October 21, 2002
Ride On service in the lower Montgomery County from Silver Spring, Takoma, Langley Park, Wheaton, Bethesda in the afternoon and evening of Tuesday October 21, all routes will be operated, however, the frequency of trips will not be as scheduled. Ride On is making all efforts to bring the service to normal level as we can.
Also, 5705 was not one of the buses to have security cameras on board, which some buses do. Most buses do have a sticker saying surveilence cameras may be in use.
he shot from the woods. it wouldnt have done any good.
I've been on some of the buses with the cameras. One faces directly out the door IIRC. Too bad it wasn't a 2002 35 foot Orion V, then it would have had the cameras.
Also, I have concluded that the operator was waiting to begin the 5:57 AM 34 trip from Aspen Hill to Bethesda.
It shows that this guy is relentless and doesn't give a sh** about people or society. He's getting away with it & he must be caught before other innocent people get shot and killed.
BTW, was the bus driver the victim? Thanx for any info.
the bus driver died hearing this sh*t every day piss me off.
Try living through it. I have...
been within a mile of one of the shootings when it happened
drove by or near the scene of two others, including one about an hour after it happened (I didn't know that it had right away though)
been on the bus (5705) on which today's shooting occurred
been hesitant to go outside
been wary myself of using public transit
talked with other people who have had similar experiences
They need to catch this "sniper" ASAP! I can't believe that this creep is still on the loose.
I betcha people feel like buying a bullet proof vest to wear, just to protect themselves. The sheer random-ness of the shootings is frightening. The whole DC area must look like a ghostown.
Even though it's different, this feels like 9/11 all over again. :-(
Reports are that it was the bus driver, who was with his bus at a layover area. Sadly, he did not survive.
What a sad day for the driver and his family.
The electric chair is too good for who ever is doing this.
Maryland does not have capital punishment but Virginia does and uses it rather often.
Maryland does have capital punishment, about a year ago, Govenor Glendening put a moratorium on the death penalty, so technically Maryland will not go through with death sentences until the moratorium is lifted. Since this animal ( and even here I use the term gently) committed murders, across state borders, he will be tried under federal law, which means he will most likely get the death penalty. I hope he gets caught soon, and I hope he gets caught by the wrong police officers (the ones that give severe beat downs). Prince George's County police used to be good at this.
Why is everyone so angry at the Sniper? Just let the police do their jobs and everyone will be fine.
This guy is killing people at random. This guy doesn't care who he kills and doesn't feel remorse for those he has killed. I am angry because the next person who he shoots at might be my mother, my brother, my young niece and nephew, any other people who I know, from other managers, neighbors, and former neighbors and those I have come to know on this forum, and even myself. Am I angry, YES I AM, but I have trust in the police that they will catch this animal.
If this guy does go to the wrong side of town, when he fires someone will fire back, and fire back alot.
He probably won't go there. He also hasn't gone to other parts of the county, since if he gets caught and is then sued, no bank will ever give him enough loans to cover the lawsuits.
I question how well the police is handling this. I heard on NPR this morning (I wasn't doing the driving, I would have had nothing or WTOP) that someone en route to the cemetary at Connecticut and Georgia was following the cruisers responding to the call before the roadblock was set up. This person was able to follow the officers into the soon to be locked down area in Aspen Hill. If anyone can get into that area, who is to say they can't get out? I am just hoping that sometime, someone gets just that little bit of information that gives him away, because it has been 20 days since all this started, and it is really getting to be enough. This guy was really lucky it was a 1999 Orion V and not one of the 10 or so 2002 Orion Vs that are at Lytonnsville, because it would have had a surveilence camera, pointing right in the direction the bullet would have come from.
I know the police have concerns about releasing the letter, but if they want to catch this person, they would have to. And who would say even if this guy gets what he wants, if he'll still shoot people. When the press showed the manifesto of the unabomber, his brother turned him in and if the police release this letter the same thing might happened. We don't even know what this person looks like, so should the police trust he will stand on his word and stop his terror spree.
I thought cameras were being retrofitted into older coaches, including the Flxes? What happened there? In this case, it really would have been useful in catching that cretin.
-F.
>>I thought cameras were being retrofitted into older coaches, including the Flxes? What happened there? In this case, it really would have been useful in catching that cretin.<<
A camera would be of no help, since the sniper was probably shooting from the woods.
Bill "Newkirk"
Very true. I did not realize that. They need to really keep a watch on wooded areas there in that case.
-F.
Doesn't matter. In the car they detained this morning near Frederick, MD, there was a hole in the trunk just large enough for the people to put the gun up to the hole and shoot. They weren't even leaving their car it seems.
black ribbons on driver's mirror of all rideon busses in memory of conrad johnson
Was that today only? Come to think of it, the only Ride-On buses I saw today were on the 36 and the 38 (latter only from a distance). I didn't use River Road this morning so I didn't see if 4396 was on the T2 again.
well, they are hard to miss. being the mirrors theirselves are black. i didnt even notice until i was riding right next to a bus in my dad's car.
I am taking the Metro tomorrow, I am convinced we have the right people in custody for now but we still need to play it safe.
I notice that the people that are angry at the Sniper are from the Washington area. Are you from the washington area? BTW there is no such word as alot
I don't get it. How should we feel toward the sniper???
Wayne
I'm going to step up and apologize to anyone here that's been offended by me giving information of these two buses rather than how sorry I feel for the victims family and friends. I went over board I guess to some guys and I mean in NO WAY to hurt your feelings on this matter.
As far as my opinion about this sniper stuff. Am I angry? No. If it was one of my family members then I would say yes, but I'm not going to get negative like some of you guys here and say I hope he gets beat down or gets shot mercelessly. Let the FBIs, police ect., do there job, but you know what. Don't mean to be spiritual to some, but GOD will take care of everything and make a way. This guy's heart is cold. I'm sad he chose to go this direction doing the devils work. I mean, here on earth the man system of consequences are what people want to see done to this guy. Death! You can take his flesh but you can not take his soul. People need to relize that prayer IS always the answer, going to church and study the word of the lord. What gets me sick that when Sunday is over people go back to there manly ways and start screwing lives of other people. From the poor to the big shots. Sorry if I change the subject.
This guy will be caught but man, but don't forget he's waaaaay been caught by God. The sniper chose to do evil. I wish he enjoy life to its fullest in and happy good way. With all things killings, drugs, sex sh*t, violence and negative stuff it's a shame us human beings act like this, but we ask for forgiveness and have mercy upon the Lord. He gives us chances to correct our lives. I wish the sniper realizes that, but I guess the man influence ways has gotten to him deeply. Judgement day is upon us folks. It is coming real soon. I'm happy with smiles and can't for Jesus to come back on earth, but anything can happen and I might not live to see the coming.
To those who are angry during this crisis. Please don't let the sniper gets to you because that's what he wants. Be POSITIVE and HAPPY. Enjoy life to its fullest. Help each other and love one another. Let us not hate one another. You will never know when your time to leave from earth will come. Just thank God for another nice day, forgiveness, blessings ect,.
Again, accept my apologies for any harm and I want you all to continue to enjoy live and have beautiful day!
-Ronnie
He will pay, not only by the legal system, but by God. When he dies, he'll pay in hell, and I hope when he pays in hell, he'll feel the pain of all of those innocent lives he took, for eternity. I for one accept your apology. I feel the way I do just because when you hear who some of these people are and in the case of the FBI analyst who just defeated breast cancer, only to have her young life snuffed out by an evil demon, you do feel more anger towards the person who caused it. I felt the same way after 9/11/01, when they talked about the lives of those innocently killed on that date.
Well, unfortunately, the person who got shot in the bus was a bus operator and died of his injuries :-(. It's always the hard-working, law abiding people who always get killed. His name was Conrad Johnson, 35, a father of 2, a operator for Ride-On buses, just doing his job and his life is tragically cut short. And now this guy says he's going to attack children. They must catch this evil psychopath before he kills/injures more innocent people.
You have a good point. It seems that it's always the decent, innocent, law-abiding people that get killed for no reason. This past May, a girl I worked with was beaten unconscious, and the guy burned down her apartment while she and her two infant children were inside. Needless to say, there were no surviviors.
I was very shocked to hear this; I had just seen her walk into work the day before. She was a sweet person and never did anything to harm anybody, and then someone does this. I'm not sure if it was a jealous ex or what not, but again, I hope they catch the cretin and give him his just deserts.
-F.
RIP: Alice Diane Jackson
Yes, born and raised in the Washington area for over 29 years. Even if one doesn't live here, there should be concern if one has family members, friends and love ones in the Washington area and the Richmond Area.
My son and his wife live in the DC area, but they are up here with me in Exton, Pa. because my wife is dying from cancer. This thing with the sniper has really gotten to me, along with my wife's illness.
We have to catch this demon!
Chuck Greene
I am so sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers go to you and your family. Take care of yourselves.
This amoeba we have running around here will get theirs. I'm definitely not going to let them bring me down, I need to go to work to pay my bills and go to the grocery store to eat. I am more vigilant and pay attention more to my surroundings, though. I even ended up calling #77 on my cell phone yesterday when a white van was driving erratically in front of me, then he blew his horn and flashed his lights at me for no reason at all when I passed. I didn't cut him off, flip him off or anything, and he pulled up behind me still flashing his lights at me and blowing his horn and trying to antagonize me, so the police were able to catch up with him and pull him over. I apologized to the dispatcher, but she said that they were happy I did call and that I was ok. So sad.
You did the right thing, and you are doing the right thing by going out and carrying on with your everyday life. Like 9/11, when we begin to live in fear, the antagonist(s) have won. We cannot give them control. These are OUR lives, not theirs.
-F.
Thank you, 1C/Ballston, for you kind thoughts. We took the respirator tube out this afternoon, and my wife, Jan passed away 1 hour later. She was so sick.....
Chuck Greene
That is real sad. My condonlences go out to you and your family on your loss.
Same here. You are in my prayers as well.
-Fred
Very sorry to hear of your loss, Chick. May your wife rest in peace.
It always hits me hard when I hear of someone succumbing to cancer. I am a very fortunate cancer survivor myself.
Well , I had cancer on my kidney 12 years ago, and had it removed, and I'm fine. My son also had a tumor on his kidney, but he had it cut off and kept his kidney. It's not too bad (for me) having only (1) kidney, you really don't feel any different.
Thanks,
Chuck Greene
I am so sorry to hear about your wife's illness. I grew up in bad neighborhoods in NYC and so I'm quite used to being aware of your surroundings, but this person(s) is really putting everyone on edge. It feel really bad for the victims and their loved ones. Yesterday, it was heart-braking when the news were interviewing Ride-On B/O's.
They summed things up well with statements like... "What can we do - we have to make a living" and "we can't stop living". I agree... I'll hope for the best and continue to me mindful of what's going on around me.
Wayne
I am sorry to hear about you wife also. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family also. This is one of the things that, that evil son of a ***** doesn't care about. He just wants to shoot and kill innocent people and then wants to get paid a ransom to stop. That really grabs my goat.
this person has really screwed up problems, killing good innocent people like conrad. If he's really aiming for children, i should get myself a bulletproof vest.
Oh yes. Being a Virginian, I can tell you from the papers and the locla news that the constabulary loves a good barbecue down here. IIRC, we are only 2nd behind Texas in capital punishment. Scary.
-F.
The bastard should be tortured to the nth degree. Nothing would be too good for him, ever.
My son and his wife live near the area and I am dammed scared for him.
Chuck Greene
My condolences goes out to the bus driver that was killed today, as well as the other victims of this animal. Also what I have been hearing today this DISGUSTING, EVIL, UGLY, PIECE OF TRASH even wants to target children. THIS PERSON MUST BE TAKEN DOWN, AND TAKEN DOWN NOW!!!!.
Again my condolences goes out to the bus driver, whose name if I remember is Conrad Johnson, and his family and also to all of Ride On drivers who have lost a friend, a co-worker, and to his, who lost a family a father, a husband, a son and a son-in-law.
conrad johnson does look familiar.....i might've ridden his bus before, he must've been a good man. best wishes for him, his family, and everyone who knew him.
I just heard on channel 4 that services for Conrad Johnson will be at Glendale Baptist Church this Saturday.
I saw that on the news as well; it was 5705, an Orion V. Behind it was a Flx Metro, and what looked to be another Orion beside it.
I was very shocked to hear about what happened to that driver and pray for his family at this time. I hope they catch that sniper.
-F.
This weekend i was looking at the Brooklyn History collection at the Brooklyn Public Libary and found an article that the NYC Department of City PLanning has proposed the following:
1-That the B-16 bus route be restructed to operate via Fort Hamilton Parkway between Dahill Road and 56th/57th Streets
2- That the B-23 route be extended to 86th Street/16th Avenue
3-That a new north/south route be created along 13th Avenue to replace the B-16
The article was about 15 to 20 years old
My comments
1-That the B-16 recommendation be followed as outlined above
2-That the B-8 route service be discontinued between the VA Hospital and 95th St/4th Avenue
3-That a new route be created to operate between Prospect Park West/20th Street to VA Hospital and 95th St Station via
8th Ave,19th St,10th Ave,McDonald Ave,Caton Ave and via current B-16 route to 13th Ave/57th Street then via 13th Ave,86th Street,14th Ave,Cropsey Ave Ext,VA Hospital then via current B-8 route to 95th St Station
RETURN-From 95th St Station via current B-8 route to Cropsey Ave/14th Ave then via 14th Ave,86th St,13th Ave,60th St,14th Ave then via current B-16 route to McDonald/Caton Ave then via McDonald Ave,20th Street and stand
Any comments
Thank You
Well, since this article was printed 15-20 years ago, it is possible that they aren't thinking about bus changes right now. If you can print & scan the article, you should so other bustalkers don't think you're making this up and thinks its rumors.
I agree that the B16 should be moved to create a full length Ft Hamilton Pkwy bus in fact it should have been moved a long ago. I know it once ran 2 way via one of the avenues I forgot which one though if anyone knows, tell me. Thanx.
"2- That the B-23 route be extended to 86th Street/16th Avenue"
This route needs a whole lot of help. Either do something to make it more attractive or cut it back to a weekday only bus. I say extend it to 86 St and/or extend it east via Beverley Rd to Brooklyn Av, right on Brooklyn, left on Clarendon Rd to Av D/Utica Av.
I also have some suggestions:
B12: Extend it to Coney Island Av via Parkside Av on a full time basis. Would turn on Flatbush Av CI Av bound, left on Parkside then u-turns at Park Circle to head back toward Sheridan Av. I'd eliminate the portion on Woodruff Av, which causes constant bunching because of double parking.
B42: If necessary, extend it north via Rockaway Pkwy to Brookdale Hospital and northbound buses would make a left on Flatlands, right on E96 St, right on Farragut Rd, back on Rockaway Parkway to Brookdale.
B74: Extend to Av X, replacing that moronic F shuttle bus.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
That "moronic F shuttle bus" is a temporary replacement for F train service. It's intended that the bus will go away when the train comes back, since the bus is not needed with train service available (and don't anyone tell me otherwise -- here are the 2001 ridership numbers for the closed stations:
Neptune Avenue: 544,204 (393rd in the system)
W. 8th Street (also Brighton): 783,586 (362nd in the system)
Stillwell Avenue (also Brighton/Sea Beach-eventually/West End): 3,763,352 (106th in the system, but spread among 4 lines, with lots of people coming from Coney Island)).
David
There were plans in 1979-80 to totally redesign and renumber Brooklyn bus routes. It was supposed to be implemeneted in 1981-82. The plan went nowhere for whatever reasons. Other changes were proposed like the "B86" bus running along the entire length of 86th Street. The MTA may even have published a handout detailing the proposals.
It did. It publish a handout the same time period (and I still have it) when the B 82 proposal was first mention. The idea behind the B 86 for those who have forgooten was to combine the B 1 portion of 86 St and the B 64 portion of 86 st to one route - B 86 which was to be from Manhattan Beach/ KingsBorough CC to Bay Ridge/ 4 av (but I think it might have gone to shore) The "leftover" portion of the B 1 and B 64 was to be formed as a new route which was never told. I am glad for some strange reason that it did not happend (I wonder why it wasn't).
Other proposal routes included
B82 (B 5 & B 50)
B30 (eliminated)
B43 (B47 & B 62)
And more surveying to developing better routes in SW Brooklyn area
I have to find this brochure to get the rest but I do vividly remember this portion.
If anyone can remember this give me a hand ...
B16:
"I agree that the B16 should be moved to create a full length Ft Hamilton Pkwy bus in fact it should have been moved a long ago. I know it once ran 2 way via one of the avenues I forgot which one though if anyone knows, tell me."
If I am not mistaken 14 Av. I remember 14 Av was two way street until early 90's. In terms of rerouting to Ft. Hamilton, yes I agree..
From David's post, I think that the B 69 or B 75 (preferly B 69 to help boost this route) should take over the original B 16 portion. As for a terminal, I m still debating....
B23 (A sorry route)
I already told you my opinion in earlier post. But extending to 86 St, hmm not bad idea. To Utica Av. I would extend it to Brooklyn Term Market (the original B 8 route) via Beverly, Nostrand (to East Flatbush)/ Brooklyn (to Boro Park), Clarendon Rd, Remsen Av, Ave D (terminal) onto Ralph and back.
B12
"Extend it to Coney Island Av via Parkside Av on a full time basis. Would turn on Flatbush Av CI Av bound, left on Parkside then u-turns at Park Circle to head back toward Sheridan Av. I'd eliminate the portion on Woodruff Av, which causes constant bunching because of double parking."
Good idea: Brining back the old ghost of the B 33. To CI Av that is a good idea. in that area as an alternative to B 16, I would like it. But in terms of turning on Flatbush and onto Parkside, no matter if was still on WoodRuff or Flatbush it will still bunch. I think it would cause a traffic nightmere on Flatbush. I rather take the double parking over Flatbush anytime.
B42
"If necessary, extend it north via Rockaway Pkwy to Brookdale Hospital and northbound buses would make a left on Flatlands, right on E96 St, right on Farragut Rd, back on Rockaway Parkway to Brookdale."
1)Can't happend.. You must never drive or walk along Rock Pkwy after Farragut. At I believe Ditmas Ave and Rock Pky the old LIRR tracks blocked that intersection. If you are talking about Rockaway Av, well to me it is pointless which leads to
2) leave as it is find a way to connect the Seaview Avs together and maybe a new bus route to Gateway (LOL)
B74
"Extend to Av X, replacing that moronic F shuttle bus"
You are right about that and those fellow bus talkers who always talk about having a bus along McDonald Av extended it to Ditmas Av
Questions?
The B16 ran along 13th Avenue until 13th and 14th Avenues were converted to one-way streets in 1989 or 90. When 13th was a two-way street it was unbelievably congested, double-parking a constant problem. I always thought the DOT would do the same with 18th and 19th Avenues in Bensonhurst.
Thanx for correcting me. I remember my father used to work on 13 St and it was a two way street.
The B-42 route is one route that can not be changed at all. The B-42 is the most unique route in the system as it physucally enters the ground level subway station. I know this as i grew up in Canarsie and still own a house there. The B-42 was created to replace the trolley route which operated from Rockaway Parkway Station via a Private right of way. I am told that at one time the subway line actually operated along this private right of way before being replaced by the trolley.
In 1968 when the MTA came up with a major building program which with the exception of Archer Ave and the 63rd Street Tunnel never got off the ground it was proposed that the Canarsie Line be rerouted over the Bay Ridge LIRR line from Broadway Junction to McDonald Avenue and that the B-42 be extended to the new route. Canarsie residents includeing myself protested and the idea was dropped.
The B-42 just can not be extended. Its drivers usually wait for trains and do not follow the schedule at all.
Thank You
Barry,
1) B16 via Ft. Hamiliton. YES
2) Eliminate B 8 portion to Bay Ridge. NO out of your mind, the only problem right now w/ the Bay Ridge portion is that the route headways should be increased especilly now that it is not running via Ft. Hamilton (which is probably why it is the way it is/ if buses "ever" be welcomed again then it could have service patterns similar to the S51) and it is now running via 92 St (which proves that night service can happen). the other reason is that the S53 does not stop at 95 St anymore, as an alternative 86 St?
3)"That a new route be created to operate between Prospect Park West/20th Street to VA Hospital and 95th St Station via
8th Ave,19th St,10th Ave,McDonald Ave,Caton Ave and via current B-16 route to 13th Ave/57th Street then via 13th Ave,86th Street,14th Ave,Cropsey Ave Ext,VA Hospital then via current B-8 route to 95th St Station
RETURN-From 95th St Station via current B-8 route to Cropsey Ave/14th Ave then via 14th Ave,86th St,13th Ave,60th St,14th Ave then via current B-16 route to McDonald/Caton Ave then via McDonald Ave,20th Street and stand"
If you are thinking that the B 8 still goes via Ft. Hamiliton than you got something. this new route that you propose should be just an extension to either the B 69 or B 75. But to only Va Hosp. maybe if we run it via 65 St and 7 Av and then along the B 70 to VA Hosp. The B 70 is a pointless route.
Quetions?
I agree, can't eliminate that portion of the B8, not a good idea, although the schedule must be fixed. Buses are supposed to be every 15-20 minutes except Sundays, where all buses until 10pm go to Bay Ridge but sometimes end up waiting a 1/2 an hour.
"3)"That a new route be created to operate between Prospect Park West/20th Street to VA Hospital and 95th St Station via
8th Ave,19th St,10th Ave,McDonald Ave,Caton Ave and via current B-16 route to 13th Ave/57th Street then via 13th Ave,86th Street,14th Ave,Cropsey Ave Ext,VA Hospital then via current B-8 route to 95th St Station
RETURN-From 95th St Station via current B-8 route to Cropsey Ave/14th Ave then via 14th Ave,86th St,13th Ave,60th St,14th Ave then via current B-16 route to McDonald/Caton Ave then via McDonald Ave,20th Street and stand"
Barry, I'm going to side with B49Limited on this one, you should just extend the B69 or 75(preferably the 69) via your new route.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
The B-8 is to be shortend only if the new route is created. Why its too long almost an 90 minuate run between Rockaway Ave and 95th Street.
To extend the B-69 and B-75 to 95th Street Stations will also defeat the purpose and create anothe B-82 mess. Long lines are just not efficent and cause major operational problems.
Why the Operations Planning staff keep proposing long routes in Brooklyn by combining lines is beyond me as in Manhattan they seperated two lines the M-10 and M-100 into 2 routes each (creating the M-20 and extending the Bx-7 to work with the M-10 and M-100)in order to have better efficent routes and yes those changes have worked very well.
As the 4 lines that have been created everyone knows the B-82 is a disaster and the B-47 is headed for one. It appears that the B-43 has worked and the B-13 consolidation will work especially if service is increased on the B-13.
By the way the B-70 does serve a purpose as a north/south route. In the early 1990's it was proposed that the B-70 be extended to Staten Island (Hylan Blvd/Ebbits Street). Did the B-70 riders really complain over that proposal and it was killed
Thank You
The B47 is NOT headed for a disaster! I took that route once and I really liked it.It ran fine and the bus I was on arrived on time so no way is it gonna be a disaster.
"As the 4 lines that have been created everyone knows the B-82 is a disaster and the B-47 is headed for one. It appears that the B-43 has worked and the B-13 consolidation will work especially if service is increased on the B-13."
As I said before, the B47 IMO, is NOT heading for disaster. You should explain why it is beacuse I don't see anything wrong with it plus its reliable.
As for the M10 split, it was very beneficial and 10's don't bunch as it used to and its on time most of the time except when there's heavy traffic via CPW. Wait a minute.......what happened to the M10 limited that used to be there because I have a 11/93 bus map and it shows it had LTD stop service. Also, why did the M7 LTD proposal or service get killed? Thanx for any info.
About the B82:
B5 and B50........come back! This bus must be split and one of these two routes should come back to allow 82's to become a LTD stop service, as myself & others have said in a previous posts.
And I will have to agree there is a big diffrence bet. M10/ M20 in Manhattan vs. B82 in Brooklyn. ( I am not mentioning the other three becuse they do serve their purpose
I'm going to extend this to Manhattan & Queens bus routes.
The limited routes should run to later times except the M1 & M98, which is fine.
M2: Should run until 7 PM SB, 8 PM NB
M4: Should be switched with the M3 NOT THE TERMINALS!
M15: Should run until 8 PM SB(Weekdays & Saturdays), 9PM NB. I'd leave Sunday hours alone.
M101: LTD service should start at 155 St instead of 125 St.
Other buses:
M50: Send some buses to Javits Center on a part time basis.
The rest of the Manhattan routes are fine.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Queens routes:
If the MTA has its way in combining LI Bus with NYCT, the Q2, Q4, Q12, Q30, Q43 and a few others should cross the border and give those so-called "better citizens of Long Island" the NYCT influence and those NIMBY's could kiss my ass(pardon my language).
Anyway, some of my suggestions. Note: This is not proposals, just my thoughts/suggestions.
Q5 and Q85: switch terminals between local & limited buses, let LTD buses go to Green Acres.
Q43: Start LTD service at 165 St rather than 179 St. If necessary, extend to Jamaica Av or Lefferts Blvd (if Hillside runs that far) via Hillside Av.
Q46: Should have LTD service both ways on weekdays all day.
Everything else looks fine to me. I'll try to find more "inconsistencies". Anyone has suggestions for different routes, have comments on mine, feel free to post them.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Q5/ Q85
For now how about an even porpotion of buses going to Green Acres and Rosedale that will be agreeable
Flatbush41,
I am going to get back with you on Queens and Manhattan routes later on. I need a little time (especially w./ Queens).
The M-10 Limited was discontinued in the September 1995 cutbacks. At the same time M-10 service to Abingdon Square was reduced .
The M-7 Limited just never caught on and was discontinued for that reason.
The M-7 and the M-32(now the Q-32) were the only routes that had Limited Stop service discontinued for lack of patronage.
Thank You
Thanx for the info.
Re:The B-47 my only complaint is that the line should operate to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza like the old B-40. That's why its going to be a disaster.
In 1991 i sent the following proposal to the TA.
1-Operate the B-40 from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Elderts Lane/Linden Blvd via the B-40 and the old B-10 now the B-15 route.
2-Combine the B-10 with the B-62 operating from Commercial/Box Streets and Brookdale Hospital. The B-62 is now part of the B-43
3-Extend the B-65 to Pennsylvina/Liberty Aves replacing the B-40 from Ralph/St Johns
4-Extend the B-5 to Sutter Ave Station via Kings Highway to Rockaway Parkway and then via the old B-78 route
5-Reroute the B-7 from Kings Plaza via the old B-78 route to Kings Highway/Remsen Ave then via its current route to Broadway
Your comments on these changes please. In another posting i will tell you what the TA said.
Thank You
Here is might thaught.................
1) combining the B 10 (B15) and B 40 together is interesting and could work even in Present day. It can still happend all you have to do is switch the B 15 w/ B 47 at Ralph and St. Johns Pl
2)BAD IDEA. MTA wins at this one w/ B 43
3) Everyone agrees. Excellent idea
4 & 5) Bad idea/ I am just thinking about the traffic havoc on that intersection already. B 78 (or current B 47) should stay the way it is. As for the B 5 keep it the way it is. (At that time of course)
Before I forget Barry,
B 47 is not disaster in your definition, it is more like a disapointment. I am disappointed that it is not going to WBP.
B49 LTD
why are you disappointed that its not going to Williamsburg Bridge Plz? There's absoultely no need for 2 buses to be running together because not many people boarded either the 40 or the 46 from the Plaza to Ralph AV. So seeing that having the 46 run alone from the plaza to Utica Av. is good enough,that's why they had it that the 47 would begin at Woodhull instead of Williamsburg.
Take a look at Broadway between Van Sindren Avenue and Williamsburg Bridge Plaza. If you wanted to take a bus prior to the B-40 change and if you can not or will not take the J Line(ie-the disabled or the elderly who may not want to walk up and down the steps) you could have taken the Q-24 to Ralph Avenue and then transfer to the B-40 to complete your trip and you can do it on one fare
Today you would have to take the Q-24,the B-47 and the B-46 and pay a double fare unless you have a unlimited Metro Card
Of course the TA could extend the Q-24 to DeKalb Ave and Malcom X Blvd to transfer to the B-46 or just extend the B-47 to the Plaza so all B-47 passengers will not have to transfer
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE TA DOES NOT GIVE A DAMM !!!!!!!!
Thank You
I agree up to a certain point. Yes, people really don't get on until Flushing Av (towards Kings Plaza on the 46) & you have the J train BUT since the B47 is a full length Ralph Av bus, it may bring more passengers to the bus portions on B'way.
Here's my comments:
1). B10 eventually got re#'d into the B15, this was done because of a new extension to JFK in '91-early '92 so this is no good.
2). B62 eventually got combine with the B47(the 1st one) so no good.
3). Good idea but the B45 is a better choice sicne it could continue via St John's Pl and ENY Av.
4). The B5 would of became too long, then the B78 eventually got replaced by the B47.
5). Nope. Wouldn't have thought of that. Leave the services as it was during those times.
This is what I think.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
There was anothe rproposal which i forget to mention
1-Extend the B-16 from Parkside/Ocean Ave via Ocean Ave,Empire Blvd to Utica Ave/Empire Blvd
2-Reroute the old B-47 from Prospect Park to Kings County Hospital via Brooklyn Ave,Lenox Road,Albany Ave,Clarkson Ave and New York Ave to Lenox Road ,Kingston Ave and back towards Williamsburg Bridge Plaza
Thank You
1) That is what the B 12 is for ...
2) BAD idea
The B-16 extenstion will bring residents of Borough Park to Crown Heights which are both basically orthodox Jews. If i recall i believe an alternative destination for an extended B-16 was Eastern Parkway and Kingston Avenue.
The B-47 proposal would have created an additional north-south route and provide a one seat ride to the Kings County-Downstate Medical Center area which can be done now by taking two buses and walk.
What's so bad about that?
Thanks for your comments
The TA comments to my 1991 service proposals:
1-The B-10/B-40 combination
The TA did not like it for two reasons
1-They were planning to extend the B-10 to Kennedy Airport
2-At that time the highest percentage of B-40 passengers to ride the line was Ralph Ave/St Johns Place and that would have required a majority of passengers to transfer
2-The B10/B-62 combination
The TA did not like it because of the B-10 was planning to be extended to Kennedy Airport and that the TA was beginning to consider combing the B-47 and the B-62. Both the TA and my concepts were to eliminate duplicate service on Flushing Avenue that existed with the B-57
3-The B-65 change was not necessary
4-The B-5/B-7/B-78 Believe it or not the TA accepted it and actually proposed it a public hearing with one change.
The B5/B7 Kings Highway route would have terminated at Bay Parkway/Shore Parkway Shopping Mall and the B-64 would have been rerouted from Bath Ave/Harway Avenue to Cropsey Avenue between Bay Parkway and Coney Island.
Public outrcy killed it for two reasons
1-Traffic congestion at the proposed end of the line
2-The rerouting of the B-64
Why the TA did not implement the balance of the proposal
No One Knows
The other changes that i posted earlier today were not answered by the TA
Thank You
is there a shopping mall around where the B6 and 82 end?
Yes it was called Cesars Bay Bazar then and i believe that its now a K-Mart store now
Thank You
just 1 store? oh I thought it was more than 1.When you mentioned it,I got curious and wanted to make sure it was still there before I made my way over there tommorow.
When the B 8 was extended to Bay Ridge it was one - seat "benifit" ride for passengers going to Staten Island. As for present day we still need it the way it is. Just improve the headaway!! Now extending the B 69 or B 75 would not make it a long route that you considered to be like the B 82. If the B 69 in particular gets that route it will be a benifit and improved a route heading to disaster. Especially a good alterntive to the B 16 or B 70. Now as for the B 70 it would have been better if it had ran via 4 AV than 7 Av, but omeone would say it mimics the B 63 and their is the M,N,R,W trains
As for the B 47, it is not another "B 82". In fact this route brought night service in southern Brooklyn. If you think that it is a failure then tell me how would you improved service on the B 40 (you know it is not the B 78 that it is at fault)
On a different note:
I don't see any bus service along Ocean Pky. As for Eastern Pky, extend the B 14/ B 17 to repalce the B 71 and the remaining portion does not need bus service.
i work in Fort hamilton and i can tell you by what my boss told me that there is no way the B8 is returning through the army base for miltitary and security reasons. the road is one way only via the opposite gate and is armed. the b8 reroute is staying as is.
I would propose a new bus route that would run all along Ocean Parkway to Coney Island as it's southern terminal.I'm still unsure about where the northern terminal would be.But looking at the way it is and so many apartment buildings all along Ocean Parkway,I think to me,a bus route along that area is long overdue.Mentioning that,does anyone know if ther ever WAS a bus route in the past that used Ocean Parkway for at least....about 4 or 5 miles or so? Just curious.
Since you're on wide roadways, Eastern Parkway should have a full length bus route(besides thoughts of combining the B14 or B17 with the B71). Did that ever have a full bus route?
I thought of a full length route between GAP & the Broadway Junction station via Eastern all the way. Just coming up with some thoughts.
A bus route on Eastern Parkway is not justified as you have the B-45 route two blocks north on St John's Place and you do have the subway between Grand Army Plaza and Utica Avenue which offers plenty of service.
Since the B-71 is not a high passenger route and does transfer to the B-45 a bus route is just not needed on Eastern Parkway.
Thats my opinion
Thank You
I finally came up with a northern terminal for this bus route.How does 9 ST/4Av sound?
I finally came up with a northern terminal for this bus route.How does 9 ST/4Av sound? 9St/4Av-Coney Island VIA Ocean Parkway.It would start at 9St then run down 4Av to 39St,turn on 39St to Church Av and Ocean Parkway then straight down Ocean Parkway to Surf Av and then toward the Stillwell Av station.
It may not happen b/c of the B68 at Coney Island Av a few blocks away and it could bring up a whole lot of drawbacks but it would be pretty cool.
But to be curious, would it run on the servcie rd or the main roadway?
The main roadway.And the B68 is 4 blocks away.Who honestly wants to walk 4 blocks when they might have a bus route going past them a few feet away? It sure makes a whole lotta sense to hop on a bus that's withing a mere 50 feet away from where you live instead of 4 blocks away.
And I'd call it the B19.
The TA will never go for it for the following reasons:
1-Duplicates the F line on Mc Donald Avenue
2-Duplicates the B-68 on Coney Island Avenue
The City will never go for it as Ocean Parkway is a major residential street and area residents do not want commerical vehicles on the street.
In the early 1970's when the current Command bus routes were started by Pioneer they used Ocean Parkway at first. The outcry was so huge that the buses had to be rerouted.
Thank You
Well then they're missing on some bus service that can get them somewhere instead of having to walk to the nearest street where a bus route is or a subway station is.To me it'll be beneficial,too bad they fail to see the light.
Eastern Parkway and Ocean Parkway are considered parkways as well as designated landmarks and, by law, are not allowed to have bus routes on them, except where the routes are transitioning to other streets (like the B9 between Avenues M and N) or terminating (like the B14/B17).
David
Well if that is true .....
Then explain the B 71?
It is suppose to be using the service road (but you always see Crown hts bound busses use main rd) and it does go a certain distance along Eastern Pkwy...
SUPPOSED TO and IS are two different things. The Bus Operators can be ticketed for using the main road (rarely, if ever, happens, but that doesn't make it any more legal).
David
David,
Then how do you explain the B-71 operating along Eastern Parkway or the B-6 using Ocean Parkway to turn around on short trips between Coney Island Ave/Avenue J and Rockway Parkway Station which was started after the law was passed or the B-1 rerouted on Ocean Parkway between Avenue X and Brighton Beach Avenue which was made in 1978.
WRONG DAVID IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAW !!!
its because the residents of Ocean Parkway just do not want buses running along the streets and they have the powerful political connections to make it happen
In the early 1970's when there was on a committee for better tranist in Canarsie and the Pioneer Bus Company was planning the BM-2 Canarsie Express the original plan was to route the bus along Ocean Parkway to the Prospect Expressway. There were forced to change the route and the route of the BM-1 Mill Basin Express which was in operation already because residents of Ocean Parkway demanded that the Express buses be removed. I know this because the Chairman of the Committee and the Councilman from Canarsie were members of my temple and they told me.
Thank You
"Barry" can believe whatever he wants. The FACT is, Ocean Parkway and Eastern Parkway are both parkways under the law, and such are not supposed to have buses operating over their length in customer service.
Anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to either research the law, ask NYCT, or both.
David
What law is that?
All NYCT buses have NYCDOT parkway permits. Brooklyn67 posted the text of the permit here a year or two ago. I don't remember the details, but I think there was some sort of restriction specific to Ocean Parkway. I don't recall any mention of Eastern Parkway at all.
And while NYCDOT may impose parkway-style traffic restrictions on Eastern Parkway, it's not a state parkway. (Ocean Parkway is: state reference route 908H.)
NYCT and NYCDOT buses using parkways (Belt Parkway, for example) are not in customer service. Buses are not permitted to use parkways while carrying customers and may use parkways at all only with a permit which is good for listed parkways between listed locations.
David
[NYCT and NYCDOT buses using parkways (Belt Parkway, for example) are not in customer service. Buses are not permitted to use parkways while carrying customers and may use parkways at all only with a permit which is good for listed parkways between listed locations.]
This ties in with a point which I've raised in other threads - specifically, that NYCT, as a operating agency of the MTA (a state agency), is legally authorized to operate on any street in the 12-county MTA District, PROVIDED that said street can physically accommodate a bus.
To clarify David's point: The roads known as "parkways" are legally defined as NOT being physically capable of accommodating buses, so MTA's unilateral operating authority DOES NOT apply. Any bus company, including MTA, must obtain a location-specific permit from the appropriate regulatory agency (NYCDOT within the five boroughs, county DOT elsewhere) before using any part of a parkway.
BTW, the Harlem River Drive (M98, BxM1, BxM2) and the Bronx River Parkway (X32) are used in revenue service. In each case, NYCDOT has issued a location-specific permit, and each bus operator is supposed to carry a copy of the permit while in service.
Common sense aplyies in terms of limited - access parkways or more like what I call "Moses parkways" (ex Harlem River, Bronx, Belt, Cross Island Parkways) that makes sense. But on the issue of regular Parkway that are not commercial traffic accessable, what I am still confused is what restrictions are there for buses using Eastern,Ocean Pelham, Mashoulu (excuse any spellings) or any in the 5 - boro Parkways to just run on certain streets or on the main or service roads?
David,
I agree with you. It mkes sense for buses not to use the Belt Parkway. You have just educated me about Ocean Parkway being a state parkway which make sense. As for Eastern Parkway, the only "no commercial area" is between Grand Army Plaza and Ralph Av. The truth about Eastern Parkway is that east of Ralph Av is "Eastern Parkway extension" (which the street name only exist bet Bway and Bushwick Av). So the only thing I see is that bet Rogers Av and Troy Av there is no bus service and based on your reasearch their must be restrictions bet. those streets. Also based on your reasearch, the MTA is violating laws with the B 71 (Crown heights bound), B 14, and B 17 for using the service road (correct me if I am wrong), then if that is true then the B 71 should have never extended in the first place because the narrow main road and double parking. The same goes for the B 14/ B 17 terminal. I think you need to educate us on those roads that are "permited" for MTA buses. This might clear up any doubts at leat on the Belt Parkway.
"Brooklyn67" published a list a while back. It should be in the BusTalk archives.
David
Here is the parkway permit. I see no caveat that it's only valid when the bus is not in customer service -- on the contrary, the stated purpose is "TO TRANSPORT PASSENGERS." Has the permit content changed since 9/30/01?
The Bx12 serves Pelham Parkway -- in customer service.
Eastern Parkway may have traffic restrictions but it's not a state parkway. Ocean Parkway and Pelham Parkway are. See Nathan Perry's list of state reference routes in NYSDOT Regions 10 and 11.
That'll teach me to post in a hurry. Yes, there is no restriction on carrying passengers. However, other than that, the rule regarding parkways stands as I explained it. See "Gotham Bus Company"'s overnight posting on the subject.
David
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. Yesterday evening, my son and I went to the Rangers game at Madison Square Garden. Going into Manhattan, we took QSC Orion 549 on the QM2A, and both of our MetroCards worked fine. After the game, we got on QSC Orion 570 for the trip back to Queens, and NEITHER of our cards would work. The farebox display read "Card Error" for both of us. At least half a dozen other people got on there, and nobody else had a problem with their cards. My son and I angrily stalked into the subway to get back to Queens, and our cards worked just fine down there, and they also worked perfectly well when we transfered to the local bus in Queens.
So here's my question....why would our cards not have worked on that one bus, when other people's cards did work, and when our cards worked on other buses and in the subway? It was strange that it happened with BOTH of our cards. Anyone got any ideas?
What type of cards were they? Unlimited Express? Unlimited Local? Fun Pass? Fare on Card???
My guess if it was unlimited local or fun pass, and you used it on the express, maybe the driver had a wrong route programmed into the farebox.
I've seen this happen myself on the express I ride. The driver just takes the card, rubs the card with the magnetic strip down against his leg of his pants, then tries it again and it works.
Dunno what to tell you.
They were both fare on card, and each had more than enough value left to cover the fare. If the driver knew anything that could be done to get the cards to work, he certainly didn't say anything about it. After inserting each card several times, and getting the error message each time, I asked the driver what we could do, and his only reply was that we'd have to pay cash, since the cards were "no good". I don't usually walk around with $6 in change in my pocket, so we got off the bus and headed for the subway, where both cards worked just fine. Later on, it occurred to me that I could have asked if another rider on the bus might be kind enough to dip his/her card twice if I gave him/her $6, but by then it was too late.
It's like what happin to my mom's $63 Unlimted on Satuarday. It worked on #714 on the Q10 then switch over to the Q54 and had #9173 and she use the $63 Unlimted and it came out "Card Error" a few times then the driver let her ride free. I was about to put my Pay Per Ride MetroCard in to pay for her but the driver told her to go ahead and ride no charge.
(Well I did not have that problem since I pay Coins on Q10 and used a Transfer on Q54)
Is it Card Error or Read Error? Sounds like either the farebox of Metrocard needs to be cleaned.
I've seen Read Error, but never Card Error.
How would you know that the farebox may have to be cleaned? Cleaned how? With what chemical? What part of the farebox has to be cleaned? Are you a farebox mechanic qualified to make this statement? There are numerous reasons for a "Read Error" or "Card Error," most of which are electronic and have nothing to do with "cleaning." In dealing with Metrocard fareboxes eery day, I've never heard of one being "cleaned" except "cleaned out" of money at the end of the run or day. Perhaps "cleaning" is a good idea and you should call QSC, explain what happened here, and offer your suggestion.
"How would you know that the farebox may have to be cleaned?"
If the farebox has been used alot during the day, it'll definately need to be cleaned.
"Cleaned how? With what chemical?"
In Divisions of Stations Station Agents are required to clean the Metrocard Heads as part of the process of taking over the booth. The Agent takes a white felt card saturated with alcohol and swipes it a few times for each head. By doing that it removes the dirt and gook that has built up on there. If it is really dirty, the card looks like purple crayon was rubbed on it.
"What part of the farebox has to be cleaned?"
I would think the slot where the Metrocards go on the left side of the farebox.
Sometimes I have been on buses where my Metrocard came up with READ ERROR messages. Most times the driver will allow me to ride. But afterwards I would check the card at a subway station to see if it was used. If the back of the card has some dirty "skid marks", chances are the farebox was dirty and needs to be cleaned. It's not just an idea for QSC. All bus companies that take Metrocard should have their fareboxes cleaned at least once a day.
Where is Thurston when you need him?
He's right here. I'll see to it that someone looks at the farebox on #570.
Sorry for your inconvience :-(
Update, apparently the farebox started giving other folks problems because one of the drives wrote it up & it was repaired last night,
i.e. I didn't have to do anything, just SOP fixed it.
Most likely the reader on the farebox is dirty and needs to be cleaned. Generally, a dirty reader will only read the newest cards, so if yours cards have been used for a while, they most likely will come up "read error". It was a coincidence that both your cards didn't work. You said half a dozen others got on after you and it worked fine for them. But that was only about six people. Had you stayed on longer, I'm sure you would have found others with the same problem.
BIG AL
I wish we could've stayed on longer, but the driver was pretty straight-to-the-point when he said, "Pay somehow or get off."
The should let people on with "Read Errors" since 9 out of 10 people have a legitimately damaged card. When mine was damaged, the LI Bus drivers let me on anyway.
Please explain "legitimately damaged." And if 9 out of 10 people have this type of card, wouldn't you be losing 90% of the revenue?
I would assume that Qtraindash7 meant that 9 out of 10 people whose cards can't be read by the farebox have cards that were damaged accidentally, as opposed to being people who are out to beat the system.
Yes, that is what I meant.
Once I had asked on this board how often bus fareboxes get cleaned. I was told they are when they get problems. Which I took to mean every few days. Subway turnstiles get cleaned 3 times a day. More when needed. I think drivers should clean their fareboxes before they take out their buses. They should ask for the Transport cleaning cards instead of the Turnstile cleaning cards. Thinner cards.
Oh contrair my friend.
Cubic has recomended that the TA buy kits from them to replace a number of MC reader parts ... hay even the best of made components won't last forever !
They/we are in the process of upgrading the coin reader for a similar reason.
And no too long ago a similar effort was made to keep the turnstile readers healthy.
It's times like these I wish there was some sort of compensation by the MTA for these little "annoyances". I mean, they want Metro Card to be the norm, and have EVERYBODY use them, because it's a lot more convenient than carrying around specific change for bus fare, and it allows for encoded transfers*. But when THEIR flimsy cards become "magnetically" damaged somehow (which happens to me often - but I never do anything to stress-out my card - it stays in my wallet when it's not in a bus farebox), or THEIR fareboxes are dirty and can't read MY card which may be perfectly normal, WE the passengers get screwed and kicked off the bus.
This has probably been discussed before, but why can't the MTA get fareboxes that accept dollar bills? Does that create some sort of problem? Just wonderin'.
*That's another thing I can't stand: Taking a bus to Flushing, immediately getting onto another bus, and finding out that for SOME reason, the previous bus took my money but DIDN'T give me a transfer on my card. Then I'm down another buck-fifty.
Using dollar bills? Forget it. The worst. We had that on LI Bus and they slowed the schedules down unbelievably, especially when you attempted to put wet or damaged bills into the box. Accept the Metrocard for what it is - an excellent solution and only one more card to the many credit or other similar type cards most people carry.
I agree. NJT accepts dollar bills and it really, really slows things down sometimes. (even though NJT's drivers handle the money)
[even though NJT's drivers handle the money]
NJTransit drivers handle money mostly on the interstate routes. Many of the local NJ routes are exact change routes, where the machines do accept dollar bills.
Agree with Joe ... guys in the depots don't want to have to count them either ... yuck !
Another problem with accepting dollar bills: you open up a whole new can of worms when it comes to security. People will try breaking into the buses left and right and try to get into the farebox if they think paper money is in there. Also, more B/O's will be at risk from people trying to rob them at night, thinking they have a key to open the farebox to gain access to the money. Right now, people don't want to be bothered pulling a robbery that will only yield them a bunch of coins and tokens.
BIG AL
We used to probe twice a day because of this problem.
I agree. Its working fine without dollar bills and it prevents a whole lot of problems in the future, its been tokens & coins all this time so leave it as is. Just the thought of making fareboxes take $1 bills would be disasterous.
>>> we took QSC Orion 549 on the QM2A, and both of our MetroCards worked fine. After the game, we got on QSC Orion 570 for the trip back to Queens, and NEITHER of our cards would work <<<
This was discussed on Sub Talk several months ago. The data on the mag stripe is like a bar code that the fare box or turnstile reads. The read head should be very close to the card without touching it. If it does touch it, it might damage it where it touches. Most likely the read head on your inbound bus damaged the mag stripe in a very narrow area. The outbound bus tried to read that narrow area and got an error. Since it is common that a card that will not work on buses works on subways, it is probable that the subway read head is wider, so it reads a wide enough area to include good data in spite of the narrow damaged area. The second bus, where the card worked again, might have read good data right next to the damaged area.
Tom
Does that mean the "damaged area" is damaged forever and I should probably get my card replaced as soon as possible before I get onto a bus that *might* try to read the damaged area? When I'm putting the card into the fare box, is there anything I should do, or any special way I should try inserting it so it DOESN'T get damaged?
The "trick" in keeping a Metrocard in good condition is to put in in a special Metrocard holder and never bend or scratch it. It is also best not to allow the card to touch the magnetic stripes of credit cards, discount cards, etc. Each day I see the cards of senior citizens and disabled persons and the wording on these cards has generally rubbed off from being used a lot, but they still work properly because most of these people take good care of these cards, since they're pemanent. The worst Metrocards are those combined with a LIRR ticket, which have a Metrocard on the reverse. Once in a while they'll get stuck in the Metrocard farebox or won't read properly. However, since you can only purchase these on a monthy basis, if a passenger has one that doesn't read properly, I allow them on because that car had to have been paid for that month. It appears to me those cards may be a bit thicker than a normal Metrocard. The Metrocard system is excellent, especially when comparing it to the old dollar bill and coin system used previously. And I'm sure many bus operators didn't like being handed paper transfers that came out of one's mouth.....
Yes you are correct, I have a Metrocard holder now and my cards are in better shape. You should never put magnetic cards next to eachother in a wallet.
I remember awhile ago when they were giving them out for people who used the brand new MVM's.
The "head gap" on cassette recorders is not so critical. Funny how a sliver thin piece of tape seems to hold onto information better than a thicker magnetic strip of a Metrocard.
Also Metrocards should have come with a backup area on the card for info, just in case the main strip was damaged, the info could've been extracted from the "backup strip" which could have been placed in another location on the card. That way the card could be fixed at a booth, instead of having to deal with Jay street.
Thanks to all for the replies. It would have been nice if the driver on 570 would have offered a solution that would have allowed us to ride, whether it was riding free or handing him cash (which, frankly, I believe should be allowed in an unusual circumstance such as this). Come to think of it, there really ought to be a standard policy in place. Drivers should be trained to respond to such circumstances so as to assist the affected passenger, rather than to just tell him to pay or get off. These passengers are trying to get someplace, and they don't deserve to be delayed because of a problem beyond their control.
How about this....provide each driver with an "Emergency MetroCard", which he or she could dip into the farebox when a passenger has a MetroCard problem. The driver would collect a cash fare from the passenger. The farebox would record the use of the emergency card, and the driver would have to turn in the appropriate cash fares at the end of his or her day. I know drivers haven't handled cash in years, but it would be the exception as opposed to the rule. Comments??
The honest guy always get screwed, that is how the world is. And unfortunately you got the shaft. The problem is if he lets you ride for free, then he has to let others ride for free. You would not be trying to beat him out of a fare, but I am sure that others would since if they do for one, they have to do for all. The drivers should not be handling cash. It is a safety & security isssue. Once the public at large finds out they carry money, then robberies and loss of life will occur, which is the precise reason why exact fare was implimented in the first place. Low level drug addicts would kill a driver over the cash he has from your fare and others. Finally, what is the assurance that the cash you gave him would find its way into the revenue dept. of QSC? The insure honesty, integrity and prevent any question of dishonesty, cash fare or properly functioning MetroCards must be deposited into the farebox.
Hi Bill...thanks for that reply.
I fully understand (and agree with) the reasons for implementation of the exact fare system, and I'm not suggesting that drivers be made to carry cash as a matter of course. My suggestion would apply only to those instances where the farebox cannot read a MetroCard. (If a passenger has a MetroCard that has insufficient fare on it, that's the passenger's fault.) Perhaps a locked receptacle could be provided, either somewhere in the farebox or elsewhere, into which the driver could deposit the cash. As for making sure that the fare gets to the company, that's why I suggested that the driver have an "Emergency MetroCard". That card would be read at the beginning and end of the driver's shift, and the amount that had been charged to that card during the day would be collectable from the driver, or from the locked receptacle on his/her bus. I would hope that the threat of the occasional undercover inspector would be enough to ensure that the driver wouldn't collect the fare and NOT dip the card. Another alternative would be to have the fareboxes accept bills. That would create its own headaches, but it would give a passenger an option when a read error occurs. I don't think it's fair to expect passengers to carry enough change to pay the fare, especially on express buses. For my son and me, that would have been $12 for our express bus round trip.
I'm a steadfast proponent of MetroCard....its benefits certainly outweigh its downside by a wide margin....but some protection should be provided for passengers who try to use the system honestly, and are prevented from doing so because of a fault in the system. We were lucky that our situation happened right near a subway station....but it could just as easily have happened on a late night bus somewhere where no other mass transit was available. Maybe the answer is to carry two MetroCards, but that really shouldn't be necessary.
It does seem that the honest guy always gets screwed....but IMHO every reasonable step should be taken to see that the honest guy DOESN'T get screwed.
Okay, I'm done venting! :-)
>>> Another alternative would be to have the fareboxes accept bills. That would create its own headaches, but it would give a passenger an option when a read error occurs. I don't think it's fair to expect passengers to carry enough change to pay the fare, especially on express buses <<<
Here in the Los Angeles area, all the fare boxes do accept bills, and the fumbling to smooth them to be taken by the fare box does slow things down. Also out here, the use of $1.00 coins is almost non-existent. I wanted to get some last week and went to a bank where I was cashing a check to get some of the proceeds in $1.00 coins. The teller had to ask all the other tellers before finding one who had any. Then they turned out to be Susie B's, so I turned them down based on previous experiences of losing 75˘ several times on transactions with them. The next time I went to cash a check, again only one teller had any $1.00 coins, but this time the were golden Sacs so I got ten of them. They were not uncomfortable to carry, and I found them more convenient than bills to remove from my pocket when buying something which cost less than $5.00.
It seems to me, there is no necessity for dollar bill acceptors, IF the circulation of $1.00 coins can be encouraged. For instance, if at all token booths and anywhere else the TA deals in cash, $1.00 coins rather than $1.00 bills were always returned in change, there would have to be an increase in circulation. If all city agencies did the same, and encouraged contractors to do so also, people would become accustomed to seeing and using the coins, which should lead to general circulation, and therefore no need for $1.00 bill acceptors.
Tom
I wholeheartedly agree....if dollar coins were in widespread use, I'd gladly carry a bunch of them. Unfortunately, the only time I've ever received any was as change from a stamp machine at the post office. I happen to be going to the bank this afternoon.....methinks I'll ask for some.
Hmmm.....do our fareboxes in New York accept the dollar coins?
>>>Hmmm.....do our fareboxes in New York accept the dollar coins? <<<
Yes, they do.
Peace,
ANDEE
In a word YES!
When I work in Queens, I am telling customers the golden dollars can be used for carefare on the private buses. Better than breaking a dollar bill.
if you use private buses, then you don't need to use a metrocard (except rush hours)
Whatever time of day you ride, you'd need a Metrocard if you plan on transfering from Bus to Train. I was refering to those who would take a bus only.
"Hmmm.....do our fareboxes in New York accept the dollar coins? "
Yes. I have used them a few times on the Q60 and Q46,2 Times on the QM1A,once on the Q72 and M104. It's well worth useing for a person that don't have a MetroCard
That's funny, the way I aquire most of my dollar coins it at MVMs because I use a MetroCard!
The "private" drivers are a little unhappy right now, as they still haven't got their retor money & Roger T is firing their reps.
That said, yes the drive should have been more courteous.
Disclaimer: I'm not the spokesperson for NYCTA, nycDOT or my employeer, just speaking for myself.
Bus operators handling money again? With all these sickos out there who will kill you for $12.00 or less ( think of the Chinese deliveryman holdup) I say NO WAY IN HELL.
BIG AL
Every once in a while someone STILL insists on giving a driver dollars. It is frequently a couple taking an Express to the City.
Mail the cards to the TA telling them what you told us and see what their response is. Perhaps the farebox in QSC bus 549 did "damage" to your card which made riding another QSC bus (570) problematical. The question is what did the cards of other passengers show in their next rides after they dipped their cards into QSC 549.
Nah, because they worked just fine AFTER the incident.
Look at the cards, any scratches, dirt, gum, etc. on them. You can wash off dirt (yes, part of the test many years ago was to leave them in someones pants & run them thru a washing machine, they came out cleaner & still working just fine ... but please don't try this at home :-)
I'm afraid I already have, more than once. They passed the test each time.
LOL ... that's what we need more testimonials < G >
Just picked up a copy of the new June 2002 Staten Island Bus Map.
It includes the revised X-22 with the extenstion to Hylan Blvd/Page Ave.
It also includes the X-23 and X-24 operated by Atlantic Express. It also indicates that they are operated by Atlantic Express and gives their phone number
I believe that this is the first time a express route operated by a private company has been included on a MTA map
Thank You
Well, Barry they're going to have to revise it soon again because of the new S84. Just got mine a few days ago myself. Did they update the other boroughs yet(I updated my Bklyn map)? BTW, why did they cancel the x21? Now that was surprising that they included Atlantic express's routes. I think its a sign that the MTA is pursuing those routes in the future.
Why does this Atlantic Express company,who I never heard of before, run those 2 express routes and not the MTA?
Political deal. MTA said they couldn't afford to run four South Shore routes, so they ran two routes and allowed Atlantic Express to run the other two. The routes being placed on the MTA map was part of the deal as well. The original route names were AE1 and AE2, but they were converted to X23 and X24 for eventual transfer to the MTA. Contrary to popular belief, the route names WERE NOT changed due to a fear of confusing Islanders.
The X21 will probably return as the new service to the 150 car Pleasant Plains Park and Ride being built by NYSDOT.
The Orion V Suburban was on the T2 again, it was 4396. I am almost certain that this was the bus on the T2 yesterday.
Traffic was pretty messy on River Road, especially outside the Beltway. Since it is only one lane outside the Beltway and it was closed just 3 miles past the River Road enterence, traffic was at a standstill. I saw a Flxible Metro-B in a traffic camera before I set out although I am not sure if it was on schedule. From what I could tell, the T2 was on or pretty close to schedule. I am not so sure about some other routes, although anything in a combo with the 34, 41, or 26 was probably pretty messed up today.
From what I understand, the 34 was cancelled today.
I almost cried when I saw pictures of Ride On bus operators crying at their lost colleague. One lady driver had to take her bus out of service because she was so emotional over what happened. The Lyttonsville garage was under lockdown as well. This was all on Channel 9 tonight. Another male driver who was interviewed lost his composure as well.
This monster must be caught.
Where did you hear the 34 was cancelled? Ride-On had nothing to that effect, although it did not list a detour for the route. I believe the 34 runs in at least one combo, or the drivers get really long (20 minute) breaks at Bethesda. Since a Ride-On bus can run on so many different routes during the day (i.e. 37 to 43 to 90 and some runs on the 23 eventually get over to Takoma Park and I am sure they go elsewhere as well at some point), if you cancel one route, you have a disaster.
Channel 9 mentioned that the 34 was not run, unless they meant that run, but it appeared to be fairly light out when the news reporter was going around telling people the 34 wasn't running.
Today's Washington Post implied that a driver from Silver Spring had to drive around in Aspen Hill. I can't recall which garage the 41 comes from. My guess is that the 34 may have not been run in the morning because the buses couldn't get to it (the drivers did not know which run had been affected until later) but I am quite sure it was running later in the day.
Just out of curiosity why isn't there a bus route taking advantage of this: I would place the Bx 42 or Queens bus route to have a 3rd bus route via Queens and Bronx. What do you think? Would you utlize that Br and what route and destionations would you place there?
I dunno. Maybe somekind of 'shuttle' bus from Bay Terrace to Pelham Park?
Gee, thanks, son.....Bay Terrace is crowded enough as it is! ;-)
?
Its a good idea but you cannot extend the Bx42 because it would get too long, can't extend the Bx8 or Bx40 neither. I thought of the Q15 or Q28 going to the Bronx but I can't think of a destination in the Bronx plus you'll have to find extra buses.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Westchester Sq? Or even .. wait a minute that might be a bad idea (Baychester)
as played by Jamie-Lynn Sigler of The Sopranos--rides a 1950s vintage bus labeled Fifth Avenue Coach, number 2612, in Ms Carey's latest video making the rounds of MUN2 and MTV. They carefully limit the top of the shot to just below the front route marker. Also, Ms Sigler and her "husband" board the BACK of the bus. Was this normal operating procedure back in the late 60s, when I assume by Ms Sigler's dress that the video takes place?
That Fifth Ave coach bus #2612 was Bee Lines (Long Island) #612. The side roll signs still have LI designations. Also Fifth Ave coach was defunct in the late 60's, they along with Suface Transportation System became MABSTOA in the very early 60's. Not sure of the year. As to the back door entrance, that doesn't make sense, unless you're shooting a video.
Bill "Newkirk"
[That Fifth Ave coach bus #2612 was Bee Lines (Long Island) #612]
Bill, I believe that bus (which is owned by Double A in Rocky Hill, CT) was Bee Line 611 and not 612. I'm not 100% positive but recollect that it was 611. Of course, 610-614 were all delivered at the same time to Bee Line.
>>Bill, I believe that bus (which is owned by Double A in Rocky Hill, CT) was Bee Line 611 and not 612. I'm not 100% positive but recollect that it was 611.<<
I heard something about the validity of the coach number, but don't know why it wsas changed by one digit. Can't recall what was the number was on the inside, since the interior is still in the original Bee Lines color and not Fifth Ave Coach. That bus rides and sounds great !
Bill "Newkirk"
Damn, I should have climbed inside the bus at the Gathering of Buses held at Double A back in August. Tony A, president, took it for a spin around the grounds. Got pics of the bus.
The bus at one time was also renumbered #625 (?) because if you look closely at the new paint job the number shows through the yellow paint.
Also the bus has a front sign box from Command or its predecessor because at Double A it was signed "BQM-1 Midtown Only". The side sign box is probably orginal since it was signed "Jones Beach".
Wonder if MC ever took the HART bus since two of them stop right outside of Harborfields HS on Pulaski Road in Greenlawn /
[The bus at one time was also renumbered #625 (?) because if you look closely at the new paint job the number shows through the yellow paint.]
After it left Bee Line, it had been renumbered to 655. That is the fleet number Tony lists it as in the Double A web site list of museum vehicles. I am not very sure of this, but recollect that the bus may have been 655 at Pioneer Bus, which was a predecessor of Command.
I was a big fan of Bee Line (Long Island) and was thrilled to get a ride in 2612 earlier this year on a visit up to Double A. My favorite old look buses of all time were the five that Bee Line received after the 610-614 order, which were naturally numbered 615-619. The black, flesh and white interior scheme was the same on both orders. For any Mack Fans out there, the next order from Bee Line, 620-624, were 40 foot Macks with the new front end that were introduced on Macks in 1958. Buses 625-634 introduced the new look age at Bee Line as to 40 footers, the company having received #565, a 35-footer, before that. #565 was the only new Bee Line bus in many years that did not have the company's standard gray and red seats.
IIRC one of the buses in the 610-619 range ended up at Alert Coach in Amityville and was driven by a driver named Frank on the old Amityville to Walt Whitman Mall Route. This was prior to Suffolk County taking over all the private routes. This route was combined with Huntington Coach's Halesite to WW Mall route to make the S-1 route of today.
According to Joe Saitta this bus is in the hands of a private party and Frank passed away about 5 years ago.
>>IIRC one of the buses in the 610-619 range ended up at Alert Coach in Amityville and was driven by a driver named Frank on the old Amityville to Walt Whitman Mall Route.<<
Sorry to hear about Frank's death. I talked to him a couple of times, but never rode his bus. That old look GM ran the old S-21 route. I remember it in the old Bee Lines paint scheme, although somewhat faded. Alert coach painted it white, just like the subway cars. The number was #617.
Bill "Newkirk"
Just curious; who was Pulaski Road named after? We have a town called Pulaski about 1 hour west of where I am.
-F.
Too funny! One of my favorites at Blacksburg Transit is 2612; it is a 1987 Flxible Metro B, which will sadly be retired after the end of the 2002 Virginia Tech Hokie football season. :(
-F.
Hi
How are you ??
I am updating my web site for Destination Sign readings,,lots of work ahead--to be updated to include ALL Changes in 2002
If anyone needs a particular route ,let me know ,via Phone
914 329 7489
TO follow---Agenda Updates
Keep in touch ---steve
Thanks Steve, when can we expect your website to be finished?
Around Late November,,I did offer my material to the TWO sites currently around,,received NO answers from either person---sadly
This will include all changes that occured with the 9/11/01 --I was there as a NYC FD--
and yes,,to include the latest B14,B47 B13,M14A M14c
and Bronx Hub Changes
If anyone wants to assist me ,I am open to new Ideas
Steve
914 668 9218 after 8 PM
914 328 7489 before 6 PM
Hi
I am looking for Rosters for Companies operating in the 5 Boros
from 1930 to 1960
-that will eventually become the NYC TA or NYC MABSTOA operating companies in the 5 Boros
Thanks
Steve
Folks, I've just received an email telling me that the last 1982 Suburban RTS has been officially retired. 1852 is now residing in Carlton Storage.
RIP 1982 RTS Suburbans!
#1852 M6
Great, now that's an end of an era! I'm proud to have ridden in those buses!
#1738 Q28 to Bell Blvd/Bay Terrace (1995)
#1742 Q28 to Bell Blvd/Bay Terrace (1995)
#1761 X68 to Floral Park (8/12/96 - first time I ever been in an express bus. Also ridden on 8/14 and 8/16)
#1762 X68 to Floral Park (8/13/96 and 8/15/96)
#1759 to Manhattan (10/26/96 - Yankee Parade! I was in the parade!)
After 20 years, looks like the time has finally come :-(. Hope it is saved as a museum piece so people who never got to ride/see the '82 suburbans could see what it looked like. Luckily, I got to ride them over the years on local buses (mainly the B6 & B8[when it was in UP]). True quality with those GM's.
actually 20 years and 6 months give or take. the original stickers on many said 4/23/81. i drove 1852 in ulmer park when new and again in yukon in the late 90s. as i said in a prior post carlton ave is basically a point of no return. i doubt they will save it as a museum piece.
I drove 1852 in UP somewere between 1995 and 1999. I can't find the list I had on my computer that I keep of all the buses I drove and the dates and how they were driving. I guess I got ride of them since I became a T/O two years ago and can't remenber doing it. But if a remenber the bus was a piece of S--t back then.
Robert
The NYTM has preseved RTS 1201. Would they want to devote the storage space to another RTS just because the seats are different? Is there enough historical significance to justify the cost of preservation?
Yes it was the first RTS that was placed in to service
Thank You
That was the last 1982 RTS I rode, and quite possibly, it was the last 1982 GMC RTS to make a trip on any express route in NYC (unless it made a trip on the X9092). I rode this bus on the 9am trip of the X68 (Run 4) during the spring of 2001.
The first 1982 local bus I laid eyes on was PA1721 on the Q76, and the first coach was PA1753 on the X20 (now the X63...my baby).
Mark
1852 was in service on the X90/92 when it was out of Quill.
To add to the oddness, no more than two to three weeks ago 1852 was spotted on Queens Boulevard with Hudson Pier logos on the Q32, as I passed it on it's old haunt the X68.
I'll mention it to the operator who used to have her on the 68; somehow I doubt he will miss her as much as we do.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
I, for one, will certainly not miss 1852.
Good riddance!
youre all being so cruel. here was a bus in service for 20 plus years, probably the only one to never have spent time in a storage yard. while the bus was indeed past its prime as i remember it it was a fairly decent bus.
I guess you can include me as one of the people being cruel. If you never drove one of the damn things, you couldn't possibly look at them the way we do. It was time for them to go. They served their purpose but were worn out from old age. I for one had enough water dumped in my lap from them, especially 1746, to last a life time. 99% of all transit workers will not miss them.
BIG AL
i drove it several times.
I think my last ride was on 1767 on the Q46.
1st Suburban was 1738 on the Q17.
Christmas 2000 I remember riding 1755 on the X64: my 1st and only Express Bus ride on a 1982 RTS Suburban. Rest of the rides were on local routes.
#1738 Q17
#1755 X64
#1767 Q46
RIP 1982 RTS Suburbans.
Academy bought #1738, but was then only used for parts.
Yesterday, I decide to take a bus trip mainly on Ulmer Park routes[yes, I rode routes from other depots as well].
So I start out by walking to the Newkirk Av station and I wait for the Q, any one, so a and a (Q) arrive at about the same time. So I hop on a R40 Q diamond and I'm going to Atlantic Av so it made sense. I heard that the MB track at Beverley Rd had a broken rail so (Q) trains ran express until 3pm, when it returned to normal service. So I reach my stop quickly and I walk through the "maze" to get to the W, which I had to run for and just caught it and rode it, an R68 via express to 36 St. Since I wanted to ride the B1, there was no R at all so I got out, as I was going to 37 St to catch the B70, I just missed it and I wasn't waiting 20 minutes so I walked to 5 Av to catch the B63 and boarded NF 907. Got stuck in some traffic but after the 50's, it was smooth riding until I reached my stop, Bay Ridge Av. So I wait about 10 minutes until Nova RTS 9091 shows up. Great accel but driver didn't take advantage of open roads until we reached 86 St. So it went good until I reached my next destination, Av X to ride the shuttle.
So I wait until 4789 comes, the bus is pretty crowded with people and we go smooth throughout but it now turns left on Neptune Av, right on W 5 and right on Surf instead of going down W 8 St then a right on Surf. So I missed a B36, my next bus to ride. Then another one poops up, 9107 & luckily people were there or else I would of missed TWO and its not good to miss buses when they bunch. At first, we go kind of slow but once we reach the Sheepshead bay station and pick up the LINE of people, at least 20, who were waiting at the bus stop, he picked it up and drove good the rest of the way. On Nostrand, I saw a B44 LTD and I didn't want to miss it so I was like should I take a chance & get off before Av U or stay on and hope it beats the 44 there. This lady got off at Av W to try & catch it, only to see the driver drive off so I didn't want that to happen to me.
So I decide to stay on and I catch it at Av U, where I board GM 4116, still going strong with good accel, speed, & doesn't look like its ready to be retired yet. Then I get off at Kings Hwy to ride the B82, which I just miss so I have to wait 10 minutes before a B7 and B82 comes one behind the other, respectively. So I board 8927 and we're off. A bus w/excellent accel & we did 45 for a few blocks until E 37 St, where someone got off. Its going good but as I'm on Flatlands, I notice something very interesting: I saw 4482, that's right 4482 WITH ENY stickers on the 82. Where/when did this bus arrive here??? Anyway, I continue on with my ride and at Ralph Av, people coming off a Bed-Stuy bound B47 run for the 82 but the driver leaves them(LOL), then its good until Rockaway Pkwy, where I wait for the B6 limited.
So I let local 4769 go and the LTD takes 15 minutes before two of them come, 4763 & 4868. So I was like let me ride 4868, had good accel, and did that turn out to be a good choice. After the (L) station (saw 2 R143 sets BTW), we did not make our nest LTD stop until E82 St then we were building speed via Flatlands but the funny thing is that it struggled to reach above 25 mph fo about 2-3 blocks until we stopped at Ralph. We had good speed through my whole ride until I got off at CI Av, which took 25 minutes, only to see 4763 AND 4769 which we pass at Nostrand Av, catch up somehow. so I wait for the B68 then I board 948 towards Windsor Terrace until I reach my stop to go home. I was disappointed that I got no softseaters but oh well it was still a good trip. I left around 5:30pm and came back 9:30.
R40 4265
R68 2755 (W)
NF 907 B63
RTS 9091 B1
RTS 4789 F Shuttle
RTS 9107 B36
RTS 4116 B44 LTD
RTS 8927 B82
RTS 4868 B6 LTD
NF 948 B68
4482 was last seen in yukon before the summer where it spent about a year.
Although I have read several articles on this I still have an imperfect understanding of the transtition from streetcar to buses in Manhattan and The Bronx.
I am going to state what I do know and ask you good fellows to fill in the blanks and correct any misconceptions. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Third Avenue Railway Corp. establishes the Third Avenue Transit Corporation sometime in the 1930's to run the streetcar routes that are conveted to buses. In 1948 this becomes the Surface Transportation Corporation. Why?
New York Railways either become or establishes the New York City Omnibus Corporation, again to operate streetcar lines converted to bus operations.
Going into the 1950's there are three major bus operators in The Bronx and Manhattan.
1) Surface Transportation operating almost all Bronx bus route and the Manhatan Century Series routes (M-100 to M-106). First use of boro route prefixes? (Bx,M)
2) New York Omnibus Corporation
3)Fifth Avenue Coach Lines
About 1956 a major re-organization takes place with Surface Transportation becoming Surface Transit and an FACO subsidiary. New York Omnibus routes are taken over by FACL. New York City Omnibus becomes Avis?.
1962 FACL and Surface Transit routes condemned and taken over by MABSTOA.
Thanks, Larry, RedbirdR33
Some of these like the BRT created bus divisions, others were bought & changed there names with the same goal, e.g. NY & Queens County became Queens-Nassau, then Queens Transit and Steinway Transit. Another is NY & North Shore Traction which went out of business to re-emerge as North Shore Bus until a strike resulted in a TA take over of their routes.
Now a couple of the oldest transit companies in NY are about to fade into history, i.e. QSC & Jamaica Bus.
Thanks Thurston. I appreciate the information.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Thurston,
North Shore was not on strike when the City took over the routes.
According to the Queens Division story that was in Motor Coach magazine the owner of North Shore refused to sign the new franchise agreement and the city took them over.
Thank You
Yes, I think you are right ... wrote from memory vs. looking up the facts ... sorry about that.
Don't worry, Thurston. It's all for the better good. ;-)
Well that's one opinion ... time will tell.
Thurston,
Isn't Queens Surfice Corporation the newest of the private compaies and was formed in 1986 or 1987?
I know Command was started in 1979
I believe Jamaica and Triboro were both started in 1931
I believe that the city DOT web site has history of all the privates
Thank You
This is a request for information about a company know as the Madison Avenue Coach Lines which was in some way or another affliated with Fifth Avenue Coach Lines. What was the extent of a separate Corporate identity and which routes did they operate. (I assume they ran most Madison Avenue Routes but did operate any crosstown lines as well?)Did this company cease to exist when Fifth Avenue and Madison Avenue were made one way streets sometime in the late 50's or early 60's?
Thanks
Larry,RedbirdR33
See post 57808. Talk about coincident timing!!
Larry: If you check the New York City Buses section of this site and then click on the section about the history of buses in Manhattan, Joe Brennan has a small piece about this company which, according to him, operated from 1933 - 1951 when it was merged into FACC. His route summary at the end of the section gives no clue to what routes they had.
I have the Corgi old look in the MACC livery which was similar to the FACC livery but has beige instead of green above the black swoosh. The model is given fleet # 1707. The side sign (black with white lettering) says " 4 - Park Row & B'WAY via 42nd ST". The left half of the front sign over the passenger side (black with white lettering) says "4th & Madsion Av" and the right half over the driver (red with white lettering) says "Park Row & B'way via 42nd St"
Hope this helps a little although I can't guarantee the historical accuracy of the bus.
If you are going up to Shoreline on nov 2 for Bill Young's track blitz or on 11/16 - I can bring the model with me for you to look at.
Alan: Thank you for the information. I know that we discussed this briefly at Branford. We all have heard of TARS and Surface Transit and certainly Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and yet up pops the Madison Avenue Coach Lines which has a livery very similar to FACL and runs on Madsion Avenue which is almost as important street as Fifth Avenue. In fact it was the Corgi Model that got me thinking about this.
I will see you on November 16.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
This time I rode it.
It was yesterday. I had #113 on Q44 at 4:00 PM from Jewel Ave and Main St. The ride was Pretty Bad b/c it was verry jammed and I was standing right by the Farebox.
It's a Good Idea to have Orion V Suburbans on the Q44 but not all the time. The Good times for them is Late Night Service and on certain Weekend Trips like Sunday Morning Service that is pretty low so a Orion V Suburban would work well there
Those who ride buses and wonder at nite will they be able to get home,i figured i would list borough by borough what lines are 24/7. Bear in mind when looking at what runs all night what neighborhoods get no service at all.
Staten Island:
S40,S46,S48,S51,S53,S62,S74,S78.
Notice something? No MID-Island Service(crossing north/South Shore)-i did not add X1 because it is not a 24/7 service,may change though.
Brooklyn:
B1,B3,B6,B7,B8,b12,b14,b15,b17,b25,b26,b31,b35,b36,b37,b38,b39,b41.b42.b43,b44,b45,b46,b48,b52,b54,b57,b60,b61,b63,b64,b65,b67,b75.
Manhattan:
M1,M2,M7,M8,M14,M15,m16,m22,m23,m42,m50,m66,m79,m86,m96,m101,m102,m103,m104.
No service on 57th Street on overnights, but service on all other crosstown routes.
Queens:
Q1,Q2,Q4,Q5,Q6(GBL),Q10(GBL),Q11,(GBL),Q12,Q17,Q24,Q27,Q28,Q30,Q35(GBL),Q36,Q43,Q44,Q46,Q54,Q55,Q56,Q58,Q65(QS),Q65A(QS),Q83,Q84,Q101(QS),Q110(JBL),Q111(JBL).
Bronx:
BX6,Bx9,Bx12,Bx15,BX19,BX21,BX22,BX28,Bx34,BX35,BX36,Bx40,BX55.
Long Island:
N6.
Forgive me for a long post, but look at maps of boroughs that i listed. its amazing what neighborhoods do not have 24/7 service.
M57-#7043
B47, B68, and B77 also have 24/7 service.
David
woops-sorry. ;-(
The Q84 does not have 24 hour service. The Q85 does.
B49 has late night service.
But here's the catch from Sheepshed Bay/Ave U and Ocean Av and Mahattan Beach
It's actually from Manhattan Beach TO Ocean Avenue & Avenue S. Those are run-off trips, not full trips.
David
BX3 & BX13 ... or at least the did a few years ago. Also the BX55 is no longer a 24hr route.
Wayne
They aren't late bight buses anymore[Bx3,13 & 55].
These routes use to be 24 hours, that I remember since the mid 90's[you could go a little further back to whomever replies]:
B2,B4,B11,B16,B49?,B69,M116,Q15,Q26,Bx3,Bx11?,Bx13,Bx33,Bx55,S66
Some routes like the B3 & B54 got reduced from every 1/2 hour to 60 minutes late nights due to the cutbacks in 1995. There were more I'm sure.
I may have left some out, if there were others buses that used to have 24 hr service post it here. Thanx.
The B-4 did not run all night (at least as far back as the early 80's, when I saw my first Brooklyn bus map). There was no service between approx. 2 and 4:30 am. I also lived along that line from 1989-1992.
Well, you left some routes that are 24/7 out
"Brooklyn:
B1,B3,B6,B7,B8,b12,b14,b15,b17,b25,b26,b31,b35,b36,b37,b38,b39,b41.b42.b43,b44,b45,b46,b48,b52,b54,b57,b60,b61,b63,b64,b65,b67,b75."
Also, the B47,B68,B77, and B82 are 24/7 as well.
"Queens:
Q1,Q2,Q4,Q5,Q6(GBL),Q10(GBL),Q11,(GBL),Q12,Q17,Q24,Q27,Q28,Q30,Q35(GBL),Q36,Q43,Q44,Q46,Q54,Q55,Q56,Q58,Q65(QS),Q65A(QS),Q83,Q84,Q101(QS),Q110(JBL),Q111(JBL)."
MTA routes: Q1,Q2,Q4,Q5,Q12,Q17,Q24,Q27,Q28,Q30,Q36,Q43,Q44,Q46,Q54,Q55,Q56,Q58, Q83,Q85
DOT routes:Q6,Q10,Q11,Q33,Q35,Q65,Q101,Q101R
"Bronx:
BX6,Bx9,Bx12,Bx15,BX19,BX21,BX22,BX28,Bx34,BX35,BX36,Bx40,BX55."
Left out the Bx10,Bx27. Bx55 does not run late nights anymore, it is now additional service on the Bx15 to continue at a late night subway frequency as a "bus version" of the old 3 Av el.
Just a minor correction:
Queens Surface Q65A service runs from 4:45 AM till 2:00 AM daily.
First bus leaves 164th Street/Jewel Ave at 4:45 AM
Last bus leaves 70th Road/Queens Blvd. at 2:00 AM
Tony
Ignore my last reply.
The first bus leaves 164 St./Jewel Ave at 4AM
The last bus leaves 70th Road/Queens Blvd at 2AM
Sorry for the mixup.
Tony
I think the Q33 is has late service.
Also, I notice the private Queens Bus companies barely have late night service on any of their routes(esp. Triboro), I can bet that if TA took over the privates, their would be more 24/7 service on some of those routes.
-Jay
Just another reason for the takeover to happen.
The Q-33 does operate 24 hours a day.
Thank You
Yes, the Q33 has 24 hour service.
DOT Routes that should have 24 hour service:
Q22 would be every 1/2 hour rather than rely on the subway alone
Q60 would be every 40 minutes BUT because of the subway, that may not happen
Q66 a very busy route would be every 40 minutes
Q113 give customers more service via Brewer Blvd. I have seen ridership around 11pm and buses be only having standing room. Make Q113 every hour so anyome traveling up to 147 Av has a option plus Brewer Blvd would have service every 1/2 hour.
There are MTA buses that should have a slight increase in the late nights but I'll do that in another post.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
I say it's possable to do late night service on Q60. Some Parts of Queens Blvd don't have Subway Service,Like Between Roosevelt Ave and Grand Ave,And East Of Main St til South Jamaica. There should be Late Night Service on Q60. Would run it every hour after 12 AM until 5 AM
The Q-66 did have 24 hour service until the service cut backs in September 1995. Yes DOT also cut service at the same time.
Other QSC routes that had 24 hour service eliminated was the Q-65A and the Q-102
I believe that 24 hour service was also eliminated on Green Bus Line route Q-8 and some Triboro Coach routes possibly the Q-18 and the Q-39
But i am not sure about this
Thank You
Ok. Thamks for the info.
MTA routes that was once 24 hours:
B2,B4?,B11,B16,B69,M116,Q15,Q26,BX11?,BX13,BX55,S66. I know there was more but I can't think of anymore right now.
Buses that had reduced a late night frequency:
B3: went from every 1/2 hour to 60 min. in 1995
B54: went from every 1/2 hour to 60 min. in 1995
Buses that should be increased slightly(for Brooklyn):
B6: should become every 45 min
B35: should become every 30 min
B36: should become every 45 min
B44: should become every 45 min
B46: should become every 40 min
B82: should become every 40 min
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
The B-4 never had 24 hour service
The B-74 did at one time but the B-36 replaced it
The Brooklyn bus routes you listed headways can not be changed due to the running time without adding buses to the line
How is school coming along?
Thank You
I'm doing good, Barry. Thanks for being concerned.
I know that additional buses would have to run in the late nights but some of these routes should have better late night headways, IMO.
I not exactly sure, but I think the B54 went to 60 min. per bus because of the alternate service which runs between Bway/Myrtle Av. and Jay St./DT Bklyn.. The B54 probably had the 30 min. per bus schudule when all buses ran between Ridgewood and Downtown Bklyn..
The B-54 headway went from 30 min to 60 min in the September 1995 service cutbacks
Thank You
Late night service is a money looser. They streatch out the frequency to cut the looses. Schedules are available.
I've done audits on the "Hawks", just small change in the box.
The artic bus where getting popular in manhattan. I started to see then going intead of only crosstown. They were going uptown and downtown and now they have disappear on the m102 and the m15 what up with that?
what up is that there are none at 126 st. there used to be four. so they aint goin up or down 1st and 2nd.
I think the ones on the M15 was just a pilot and they are supposed to be delivered by early next year. As for the M102, there is a good set of artics on that route and whenever 100 St reopens, it SHOULD be a all artics depot along with the M86,M101 and M103(that's all I know).
the artics are currently assigned to the following routes:
M23,M79,M86.
occasionally, they will pop up on the M102-but once in awahile.
126th Street doesnt have articulated buses yet. When they do, expect to see them running on the M15 route.
Bronx has them on the Bx1,Bx2,Bx12,Bx41,Bx55.
b1-#9097-NOVABUS
Artics show up on the Bx1,2,4,5,12,22,28,30,31,39,40/42,41,55.In the bronx that is.Ive also seen artics on the Bx3 and Bx36.
A.M.L
YOU KNOW
Bx31#5400
Okay, I am planning an excursion for Friday, 1 November that will go through the Hudson River Valley and involve Short Line buses and the MN Hudson Line.
Here's what I'm thinking - after my [only] Friday class which ends at 11:15, I plan on driving to the Ridgewood terminal on Rt 17 and getting the 11:47 AM bus to Newburgh, scheduled to arrive at 1:34, then connecting to the bus to Poughkeepsie, scheduled to leave Newburgh at 1:57 and arrive at the Poughkeepsie train station at 2:48. There, I plan on the 3:33 train to Grand Central then return to Ridgewood on any Short Line bus leaving the PA (frequent service there, so I'm not worried about that).
My main question is, are Short Line buses usually punctual? I do NOT want to miss that connection in Newburg because if I do, I'm up shit creek without a damn paddle. And the only reason I want to take the Bear Mtn/West Pt bus to Newburg (as opposed to catching the Poughkeepsie bus directly from Ridgewood at 12:40-something) is because I want to take the scenic route along the Hudson instead of the Thruway route.
The bus/train connection in Poughkeepsie shouldn't be a problem since it's roughly a 45-minute buffer zone.
Any input would be appreciated.
Suffern along Franklin Turnpike and Route 17 to and from PABT. Generally, the buses are on time or not more than 5 or 10 minutes late. Delays of longer than 10 minutes occur sometimes, but usually on the weekday late afternoon or evening runs. I assume many of the problems here are caused by traffic into and out of NYC in the PM rush hour.
One problem I do find on Short Line buses that you should look out for: incorrect destination signs. Always ask the driver if he is going to your destination. The company seems to have solved this problem with the new buses it just received (87-8800's); they have turned off the destination sign and do not use it!
In any event, you should have a back up plan in Newburg just in case!
The signs are not turned off, since there is no on/off switch, they come on when the bus is started. Shortline just has not programmed any messeges into the system...they feel a little bus humor keeps the customers guessing....
I saw a post several days ago stating that Orion bus # 110 was at Yukon on the S something. This evening I saw it on the Q 32 with CS stickers on it.
as per the latest news his name is john mohammed picked up with his 17 year old son in law, thats right son in law. they were picked up at a rest stop. a shotgun also recovered. now well see what drove the madman other than insanity.
One thing I read said that this person, if that's what to call him, converted to Islam recently and had anti-American sentiments following 9/11. The car they were sleeping in was rigged so they could hide in there to shoot. Why didn't they just use that brainpower to do something substantial? Its scary to think how many more people are out there like that.
At 3PM, I'm running down to the lobby of my office and watch a press conference they're supposed to have.
Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. Last time we had a "possible suspect", it turned out to be illegal immigrants and nothing more than that. I think another shooting occurred within 24 hours. Although this seems more credible, let's not assume to fsat. WTOP or CNN did report that this person was sympathetic to the 9/11 hijackers.
They are 99% sure this guy is the sniper. The ballistic tests on the gun that they found in the car matches the evidence found at at least 11 to 13 of the shootings. If it is the guy, they should not only throw the book at him, they should throw the library, the bookmobile and the biggest book store out there at him. In addition to other charges he will probably face they should throw in terrorism charges at him also, since what he did was equivalent to terrorism.
When it was first proposed that New York City Transit purchase articulated buses it was for the following routes
BRONX-Bx1,Bx2,Bx12,Bx41 and Bx 55 routes
BROOKLYN-B41,B44 and B 46 routes
MANHATTAN-M15,M27/M50,M42,M101,M102,M103
As we know that all the Bronx lines named above are today articulated and the Brooklyn lines as of today will not be getting them (unlesss the TA changes their mind again as they have done 3 times already)and lets look at the Manhattan lines
The M15,M101,M102 and M103 will be converted upon their receipt of the next group of articulated buses arrive on the property.
But instead the first group went to the M 79(whose passengers do not want them),the M 86 and the M 23
My proposal remove them from the 3 crosstown lines and reassign them to the M16/M34,M27/M50 and the M 42.
My reasons are as follows:
1-Make NY Waterways discontinue their Shuttle bus network which in most cases duplicates TA runs especially on 34th,42nd and 49th-50th Streets. This was suppose to be done in 1991 but NY Waterways changed its mind at the last moment.
2- By switching the M16/M34,M27/M50 and M 42 from standard buses to articulated equipment NYC Transit can accomadate the NY Waterways passengers without any major increase in service on the above bus lines. The M34 and M 42 will require minor route changes and the M 50 will be extended by 3 short blocks. I do not htink that you would have to add any runs or equipment to make this change.
Think of how many vehicle trips can be eliminated from Manhattan streets by just this one change.
You will also see the following
The NY Waterway ferry fares can be reduced as their operating costs will be lowered since they will no longer have to maintain a bus fleet and drivers.
Any NY Waterway drivers and maintance staff can be immediately hired by MABSTOA similar to the hirings made in 1980 when Avenue B and East Broadway Transit went out of busisness.
NYC Transit will see an increase in ridership and revenue which will even offset the extra costs of converting the M 23,M 79 and M 86 back to standard bus operation. NY Waterway passengers will receive the benefit of a free transfer as long as a Metrocard is used
Any comments
Thank You
Bringing the M23, M79, and M86 to an all articulated was in fact a big mistake, especially the 79 look at what happened to their reliability it went down once it replaced RTS's. The TA forced artics to go on the 79. Bring the 79 back to AMS so the M100 could go back to KB or split it. Don't count on artics coming to Brooklyn anytime soon, the same thing is going to happen: service would be slightly reduced, less runs.
"2- By switching the M16/M34,M27/M50 and M 42 from standard buses to articulated equipment NYC Transit can accomadate the NY Waterways passengers without any major increase in service on the above bus lines. The M34 and M 42 will require minor route changes and the M 50 will be extended by 3 short blocks. I do not htink that you would have to add any runs or equipment to make this change."
M16/M34 yes, M42 yes but don't make it completely artics, M27/M50 NO!!!! I think the MTA should slow down with the retirement of the RTS's.
Why artics won't work on the M27/50:
1. Traffic is already bad on these two routes.
2. This would further reduce service.
3. The 27 would have problems around the PA bus terminal.
This is my opinions.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
Again if you read my posting I will not reduce service at all.
Just increase the capacity
Thank You
artics on m27/50 would only increase congestion on 50th st especially at christmas time.
Wait the Bx4,Bx5,Bx28,Bx30,Bx31,Bx39,Bx40/42
They either have all artics or some routes run them on rush hour.
THe Bx4, Bx5, Bx39, and the Bx402 are already dedicated Artic Lines. You may see an occational Artic on the Bx31, but forget seeing them on the Bx28 due and the Bx30 due to the Co-op city communtiy not wanting them in Co-op city, I have X1 on the Bx28, and until 3 weeks ago, all the X's were artics, and then management cancelled that as well.
So does the Bx22.
Thanks
A.M.L
U KNOW
BX31#5401
NY Waterway passengers will receive the benefit of a free transfer as long as a Metrocard is used
That's not a benefit; the Waterway buses don't charge a fare to begin with.
But I'm with you all the way on the M79 and M86. I thought bus bunching was bad -- today I experienced artic bunching at 86th and Lex.
At the very least, I think artics should be used on the M34 and Javits M42 when a big show is in town. The regular schedule can't accomodate the passengers.
I got out early today from Drexel, so on my way to the PATCO station at 16 & locust, I thought I'd walk along Market, get some food at 30th St station, and then see if I could grab an Artic on the 9 or 48. I accomplished the first two things easily, and then proceded across the river for the remainder of my trip. As I headed out onto the bridge, a Rt44 D40LF passed me, I like riding them, but did not chase it down. Just as I crossed the other side of the river a Rt31 Neoplan passed me, but I had just ridden a pair of Neoplans two days before. I walked down to 22nd, where I was stopped by a light, I thought about just going down to the Sub Surface line, cause the wind was really blowing. However, just as I was thinking this a Rt 9 Neoplan Artic pulled up about 4 car lengths back from me. This was a slight problem, cause I was on the wrong side of the street from the bus stop, and thought for sure that the bus would pass me before I could make it to the stop. Fortunately there was an older man waiting for the same bus, and he stopped it, I walked up and hopped on.
This was my first ride on Septa Artic, and my first ride on an Artic since Seattle Metro's MAN artics last year (before that would be before '91). I must say, I like these busses, they're comfortable, quiet, and somewhat spacious. The coolest part came when I was leaving the bus at 16th and market (yes I wasted a token to ride 6 blocks, not even half my walk). My bus was following the ex-NYCT RTS that everybody keeps talking about, 3879 I think. It's pretty funny, you can read like all the MTA marking. If it weren't for the tiny letters saying that it's from Wil-Co busses in Willingsboro New Jersey, you'd think it was a New York bus that got lost in one of the tunnels.
And finally, before I go, I have to ask, does SEPTA give a crap?
They don't seem to have a real set roster for each route, more like it's a big lottery or something. Coming out of my Calc lecture, I saw D40LF 5434, the SPREE-wrapped New Flyer, but it was on the 30, the shuttle route between 69th and 30th street. Usually that route is lucky if it has one passenger in it's usual ElDorado. But TWO D40LFs (there was another that I saw later with 30 on it's back sign, didn't see number)? I've seen a couple of D40LFs on the 30, and it completely baffles me. These brand new busses running empty on possibly one of the most superflous routes all while the 17 is SRO all morning long. I'm waiting to see a Neoplan Artic on the LUCY, that's the day I know SEPTA is nuts.
Also, if I saw the SPREE wrapped bus on the 30, does this mean that the SPREE is dead?
They don't seem to have a real set roster for each route, more like it's a big lottery or something. Coming out of my Calc lecture, I saw D40LF 5434, the SPREE-wrapped New Flyer, but it was on the 30, the shuttle route between 69th and 30th street. Usually that route is lucky if it has one passenger in it's usual ElDorado. But TWO D40LFs (there was another that I saw later with 30 on it's back sign, didn't see number)? I've seen a couple of D40LFs on the 30, and it completely baffles me. These brand new busses running empty on possibly one of the most superflous routes all while the 17 is SRO all morning long.
The SPREE buses don't go straight to Center City from Callowhill Depot. As I recall, at least one or two SPREE runs start their days on either the 44 or 121, another I think starts out as a 38, and one starts out on the 30. As for ridership on the 30, there is a decent ridership on the western end of the line along Haverford and Vine Sts which can justify using 40-ft buses.
On a related note, SEPTA had planned to move the 28 from Comly to Midvale a couple years ago in order to use ElDorados on that line. However, the ridership on the 28 proved to be more than the ElDos can handle, hence the move was not made.
I'm waiting to see a Neoplan Artic on the LUCY, that's the day I know SEPTA is nuts.
In the past, SEPTA has been known for sneaking an artic on the 77, where ridership is virtually non-existent. You would never see an artic on the 316/LUCY bus, since that operates out of Germantown through the Trenton-Philadelphia Coach division of the TWU, which is, for all intents and purposes, separate from the City Transit Division.
Well, here are some of MY observations for today:
I started my trip on a Peter Pan J4500 bus out of the Port Authority Bus Termina at 8am, got to Center City around 1020am...got my DayPass. After that, I took out my camera and started to take photos at the best opportunities I could find. I basically started, like I usually do when I go to Philly, on Market, mainly 10th-13th Sts...found some Neoplan artics and NABI overhauls...I saw a few New Flyer buses on the 38 and 44, then spotted one on the 17 line...I didn't get on a bus until around 1130am...I rode #5496 on the 17 line all the way over to Front/Market and took a pic or two...spotted the Spree buses, #5433-5436, and took one pic of #5433. I didn't even know that one was wrapped, I thought it was only 5434-5436. I have a quick question about the Spree: Why did SEPTA extend the Spree over to Penns Landing? I thought they only went as far as 5th/Market...
Anyway, took a NABI on the next 17 out, rode #5387, it was a nice, swift ride, almost made me wonder if the SEPTA equipment was turned up a bit, making them take off a lot faster than when I rode it some time back? I rode the 17 all the way to Southern Garage, at 20th/Johnston Sts, walking around it in anticipation of finding the New Flyer DE40LFs, which I did not...BUT I DID find a whole charade of AMG trackless trolleys in the facility, one of which, #820, I have a pic of in the old SEPTA livery with the gray window trim, pretty rare nowadays on their buses...I also got pics of buses #5499 and 5500 on the 17...the last of the first batch of New Flyers...the second batch would be later in my trip...
Decided to walk to the G bus and ride it to the Broad Street Subway, but the G didn't come when I anticipated, so I walked...only to find the G bus coming as soon as I got to 16th St...and I was almost there...got a pic of #5237 on the G. I saw the 23 buses, but I looked for the C and didn't find any. Is the C like the 17 in which buses go to a certain point every 5 minutes but go down to Pattison every hour? Anyhow,...Got on the Broad Street Subway at the Oregon Avenue Station. Boy, those cars are so LOUD! But they run very fast! And I had the railfan window, of course...Got on the BSS and took it to City Hall, where I transferred to the Subway-Surface Trolley. This was not the first time I rode it, the first time I rode only from City Hall to 30th St, I took the #11 line over to 36th Street where I took numerous shots of the cars on the 11, 13, 34, and 36 lines, on which I have never seen or rode on before...it was such a hilarious experience walking near a ROW with automobiles travelling behind trolley cars...something I have never seen before...
Took the #11 line back to City Hall, where I transferred to the Broad St Line again in anticipation of going to the Hunting Park Station. Got on the express which was already there, so was the local but I went for the express. Boy, did I have a ball! that express is like nothing I have ever ridden in NYC, except maybe the Lexington Line, but that train must have been as loud as a jet engine ramming through those bypassed stations (Susquehanna-Dauphin, Cecil B. Moore, Allegheny, etc.) at least 50-60mph! Unbelieveable!!! I got off at Erie to transfer to a local to Hunting Park, where I would get some photographs of the 55xx buses on the R line, such as #5523 and #5514, which I rode. I took the R eastbound over to Frankford Terminal and there they were, buses in the upper 55xx series, at least...almost every bus in that series was over there, on the 8, 14, 20, 24, 73, 88, 445, 447, etc. There were a lot of NABIs and a few Neoplan 40-footers over there...among the Flyers, #5512, 5514, 5523, 5533, 5545, 5546, 5554, 5565, 5566, 5582, 5583, and 5584. Among the NABIs were a lot of overhauls in the 51xx and 52xx series. Went over to Frankford Garage and walked around a bit, saw mostly NABIs outside the complex with a few Neoplans...took a stroll over to Comly garage, after walking 20 minutes to find it...and found pretty much the same...although it bothered me that 1) the garage is so close to Frankford, and 2) that it was across from a cemetary on one side and an elementary school on another side. After that, took a 20 bus back to Frankford with all of these loud school kids, and it was almost a headache, but what can u do? Besides not ride the bus when kids come out of school?
Took the Market-Frankford El to 5th Street for some more shots of some SEPTA buses, including another shot of #5500 on the 17 line, and NJT D4000 #7986 on the 551 to Avandale, NOT Atlantic City, like I would have assumed. A whole lot of NJT Flxibles and D4000s on the scene...walked from 5th/Market to 10th/Market and hung out at the market East Station before heading on another Peter Pan bus, yes ANOTHER J4500, boy was i lucky, and on the day of my birthday! To think I would ride the J45000 for the first time long-distance...the bus was very comfortable both ways, and the ride quality was better than that of the D-series, IMHO. It's growing on me...
Overall, a very good day for me...
A few comments:
1- Why was the Spree Bus extended to Penns Landing, a place where in and of itself wasn't experiencing big ridership?
2- Where are the New Flyer DE40LFs? Aren't they out of Southern Garage, and if so, why weren't they on the 17, like I had hoped?
3- It seemed odd to me that certain lines like the 3, 5, and 66 are Frankford lines that have mainly Neoplans when there are other bus models in that garage that can be used on those lines...
4- There were only Neoplan AN440s on the 66 line, former ETB line...question is: why is that? Why not NABIs?
5- In what garage is bus #5600 in? I was trying to find it out of either Frankford, Comly, or Southern, but no luck there...
Sorry for the long post...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
"Where's the DE40LF?"
Here are the answers to your questions:
1) To get more people to visit and shop in Old City (The area east of 5th St)
2) There's only one now, but the rest will be delivered in 2003. 5601H is at the Berridge Shop for evaluation and testing.
3-4) They use the Neos on these lines because these routes are not designated as wheelchair accessable. The NABIs, Flyer and wheelchair accessible Neoplans are assigned to wheelchair accessible routes first, what's left is assigned to other lines. Route 66 was never a wheelchair accessible line when it had the AMG trolleys, so it won't be using wheelcair accessible diesels now.
5) 5600 is ran out of Southern. This bus is occasionally seen on the 17, sometimes on the 37.
Ah, I see...so 5600 is one of those floater buses...I was on the 17 line, didn't see it; looked at the 37 line, didn't see it,;went to the garage itself, didn't see it. Maybe it's one of those ghost buses or something?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
P.S., how did u like my story?
1- Why was the Spree Bus extended to Penns Landing, a place where in and of itself wasn't experiencing big ridership?
Probably because of the security restrictions around 6-Market, where the Spree originally terminated. I had also heard that some people in Olde City wanted the loop extended into their area.
2- Where are the New Flyer DE40LFs? Aren't they out of Southern Garage, and if so, why weren't they on the 17, like I had hoped?
I believe that right now, the hybrid buses are being rotated around the system for PR purposes and testing. Once the production order is complete, the 12 hybrids will be assigned to Southern.
3- It seemed odd to me that certain lines like the 3, 5, and 66 are Frankford lines that have mainly Neoplans when there are other bus models in that garage that can be used on those lines...
The 3 and 5 have some width restrictions; the restrictions on the 3 bus allegedly have to do with the intersection of Front and Kensington underneath the El, but I don't know what the deal is with the 5 (there have been a few low floors sneaking in on the 5).
4- There were only Neoplan AN440s on the 66 line, former ETB line...question is: why is that? Why not NABIs?
The 66 is not an w/c accessible line, hence the 3000/3100-series Neos are used on the 3 trackless lines during the week. Up until the September schedule change, however, NABIs did operate on the 66 on a regular basis. Most of the bus routes out of Frankford - except the J and K buses - are wheelchair accessible.
5- In what garage is bus #5600 in? I was trying to find it out of either Frankford, Comly, or Southern, but no luck there...
5600 is supposed to be at Southern.
I got a copy of the new isssue of "The Leader"-in it they are talking to the operations manager of buses in staten island and he says that a 3rd depot is to be bulit on staten island. I have a pamphlet that was about staten island that said that a 3rd deopt would be bulit on staten island. if true, this is how i would assign routes:
Castleton:
S40,S42,S46/S96,S48/S98,S51/S81,S52,S53,S60,S62/S92,S66/S67,X10,X11,
X12,X13,X14,X16,X18,X20.
Yukon:
S44/S94,S59,S61/S91,S79,X1,X2,X3,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X9,X31.
NEW DEPOT:
S74/S84,S76,S78,X15,X17,X19,X21,X22.
is there any plans to bulid a new garage?
You forgot the S55 and S56
I would think it is unprodcutive to assign routes until you know where the 3rd depot is located. Its location would surely have an affect on which routes are assigned there.
this was proposed 30 years ago. they claim it will be in charleston and are now ready to proceed. however si bp wants them to buy the lng tanks in rossville and build there. dont expect anything for another 5-10 years.
Ok, a few things:
1. You left out the S54, S55/S56 and S93
2. The X21 got combined with the X22
3. You left out the X30
Anyway, since its 'authentic', this is how I would assign the buses:
Castleton:S40,S42,S46,S48,S51,S52,S53,S57,S60,S62,S66,S67.
LTD'S: S81,S90,S92,S93,S96,S98.
EXP:X10,X11,X12/X42,X13,X14,X16,X18,X20,X30
Yukon:S44,S55/S56,S79 LTD:S94
EXP:X1,X2,X3,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X9,X31
'New depot':S54,S59,S74,S76,S78 LTD:S84
EXP:X15,X17,X19,X22
Not thiat I know of but so far it looks like there is NO plans for that. Just curious, if it's decided to build a new depot, where would it be located?
I recall last year that the MTA has acquired some property in the Rossville section of Staten Island.
I believe that current plans was to have the property built as an annex to Yukon Depot and not as a full fledged depot .
The reason for an annex was to reduce operating costs such as maintance would be at Yukon. Operators would work out of both facilities and they would be one pick for both facilities
It is possible that the MTA did change their mind again
Thank You
read my post for all details.
The way you "assigned" the routes, you're making it sound like the 'proposed' depot is going to be in the South Shore.
On further observation of this ex-NYCT bus here in Philly, I noticed that the bus had (what you may call Standard) soft seats. Not the type usually seen in the (old RTS) Express Buses,(the high-backed seats) but the style you see in a NJT RTS. Were there many RTS's with this style seats?
Yes, some of the hard seaters were converted to soft seats as REBUILT buses for express service. I believe that some were 3800's and 4800's.
[Yes, some of the hard seaters were converted to soft seats as REBUILT buses for express service.]
If I remember correctly, all of the 3800's came in new as express buses with soft seats. On the other hand, all of the 4800's came in new as hard seaters.
thats correct. converted hard seaters include 3503,3562,3909,3964-3968,4167-4169 amonst others.
I hate to ask this question but I feel I should, what is the latest news with the MTA and these companies? WILL the MTA take thses companies over or MIGHT the MTA take over these companies? Someone I know is concerned about this. Any Comments Questions and all that please post. Regards,
So far nothing's definite but it looks like its gettin closer & closer but we had a long debate on that recently so don't be surprised if you get few responses but this may become a heated issue AGAIN. Look at previous posts/topics in the archives & you'll see what I mean.
The statements by the MTA's Kalikon were luke warm about it and included disclaimers, e.g. "... he would agree to such a deal only if State and City subsidies continued so the agency would not incur financial looses." On the other hand none of the politians are against it, so it's a one sided debate. Plus the private owners have been quite on the matter. This is to be expected, because if they come out against it the press & pro-takeover folks would attach them.
For it to happen either Pataki will have to come up with money to BUY them out OR the MTA would have to go deeper in debit to do it. (the privates own many of the depots & other stuff worth a lot of money)
Like the attitude that former Nassau County Exec. Tom Gulotta took, Mayor Mike just wants it to go away. Mike has big money problems, this is just one of the straws he is grabbing at.
Disclaimer: I'm just a low level employee of one of these companies, so am only speaking for myself.
Me and other drivers here in Suffolk are just sitting back and waiting to see what happens with this. Sounds good though.
D.
[WILL the MTA take thses companies over or MIGHT the MTA take over these companies?]
Once again, folks, the First Rule of New York Politics bears repeating: Anything can happen, and probably will. The only definite is "????" - and even that's iffy!
That said, let's see what the October 9 press release has to say on this matter: "Once the newly merged Bus company is established, consideration will be given to having non-MTA transportation providers, including private bus companies that operate in New York City and throughout the MTA service region, join the MTA. These changes would require the agreement of both the MTA and local governments where the non-MTA providers operate." In other words, MTA Bus will take over NYCDOT's bus routes, but only when and if NYCDOT wants it to. At the same time, Mayor Bloomberg has not been shy in stating his desire to get out of the bus business.
There are two ways a takeover could happen, both of which have precedents within NYC Transit:
1. MTA Bus might choose to operate the routes directly, as with Avenue B & East Broadway in 1980. AB&EB's drivers were hired into MaBSTOA, with the M8 and M9 assigned to Hudson Depot and the M7X assigned to 100th Street as a branch of the X23 (later renumbered X90).
2. MTA Bus might choose to take over only the franchising, planning, scheduling, and oversight functions, while leaving the companies intact to continue operating the routes. This was the case when NYC Transit took over Access-A-Ride from NYCDOT some years back; the various carriers which had operated under contract to DOT continued to operate, but under contract to NYCT.
Of course, these options are NOT mutually exclusive. MTA Bus could easily decide to operate some routes directly and continue contracting others.
We'll all just have to wait and see what happens.
Just for the record
Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Inc. went out of business on its own. The MTA took over the routes only after the company announced its plans to cease operations.
It was placed into MABSTOA only because it was very easy to do so. The drivers and mechanics however lost their senority and had to go to the bottom of the OA list. However their were places at the bottom of the OA list by their senority at East Broadway and Avenue B
ie-a 20 year man was placed higher than a 10 year man.
Thank You
The fact that I saw 3169 was odd. It was the fact that I saw it at the same time, at the same place, WHILE DRIVING TO MY JOB. Apparently
the company must be based somewhere in Virginia, I wonder where. If this strange event happens again, I might look for Adam West to jump out of the bus in a Batman outfit.
To the Flxmobile...LOL!!! What part of VA is this baby seen in?
-F.
This bus has been seen on 395 heading north. It was seen in Alexandria at Duke Street, both times at around 9:55 am. I didn't see any NJ Transit paint or markings on it but the way the bus looks and the number, seems to be an ex NJ Transit bus.
Whats up Guys
I received my letter dated , Oct 10 th from the Mta Pres welcoming MTA LONG ISLAND BUS to the family . It will now be under MTA BUS .
Yay! Time to celebrate! :-)
Last night on my way home through the Lincoln Tunnel, I saw an NJT Artic inbound. I don't know if it was a new bus (traffic was unusually smooth), but it waqs definately new paint. It started blue, faded to orange around the joint, and ended in purple (or am I hazy...I may have the color order mixed up), but it had NJTransit emblazoned on the driver's side.
Looked cool.
-Hank
Wow, was I hazy....
This is what I saw:
-Hank
Crap....Photo by Trevor Logan....
-Hank
That bus is 9256 out of Fairview garage, It is a one of a kind bus, only one that looks like that. The artics still suck!
Tony M.
That's an old bus with a new paint job, some kind of experiment. A while back someone posted a picture of it here. Yes, it does look cool.
Peace,
ANDEE
Jeez Hank I saw that style of paint job on TransiTalk ages ago, and Im over on the other side of the Atlantic.
Due to the funeral of Mr. Conrad Johnson, I've read on Ride On's website that buses on Saturday will run on a limited Sunday schedule and all rides will be free.
I'm going to try to drive by Silver Spring Metro tomorrow where I believe there is to be a processional to the funeral in PG County.
: (
What defines a "limited schedule"?
I don't know, they didn't go into that. I was wondering what that meant to. I'm wondering if there are pamphlets on the buses to let people know. Nothing more was really on the website at the time I saw it this morning.
rode 2 international cutaways, poster says limited sunday service but didnt go into detail. Another poster in memory of conrad johnson with funeral and contribution information. Black ribbons stay on for today and also discovered them on right overhang mirror. btw, wat year is 5356? 30 footer gillig. best wishes for conrad johnson + family
5358 is 88 I am guessing...
I saw the ribbons on 5619 this morning. I have a feeling the "limted Sunday schedule" won't be made public because it is on such short notice. I wonder if WMATA will operate any of the routes. Also, I am guessing senority will dictate who goes and who works.
Rest in peace Conrad Johnson. I know your memory will keep your family strong.
Saw this just a minute ago while watching M*A*S*H; a guy from Cleveland is plugging the new Snickers Cruncher bar and steps off a bus. It looked to be an RTA Flx Metro, but was going by so fast. It looked kind of boxy at one point, alomst like a Gillig. Has anyone seen this, and can they confirm what it is?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Stagecoach shares took another battering on the London stock exchange this week.
Coach USA operations are dragging it down.
Most other parts of the company are performing to expectation.
The share price from the start of 2002 is present day is down 75%.
Just saw this on the WB; as the show cuts in from commercial, an RTA Flxible Metro rolls by outside Drew's office. This is the episode where Drew dates a vegetarian and slips her some meat, then brings her a cow. This must have been a recent episode as they mentioned President Bush. What a sight to see that beautiful bus!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
If it is on WB, which Bush is which?
If you look closely at some of the older episodes you can also see a RTS bus bank on the window ledge or coffee table.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
This morning, I took public transit for the first time in three weeks as a result of the sniper shootings. I left a few minutes earlier than normal although I decided to take my normal route as oppossed to the new 47 route. I still hope to try that soon. The bus station at Friendship Heights was deserted both in terms of the numbers of buses and people. On the subway, I missed a train of Rohr cars since I didn't hear the announcement. I saw it leave and saw that 1101 was the second car of the train. For those of you on the SubTalkDC trip, we saw the 1100/1101 set after our Blue Line broke down outside Franconia-Springfield. It was the middle pair of the 6 car train we took to Rosslyn. The reason it was special was because 1101 (and 1100 too, probably) did not have the AC marked underneath the number plate on the outside. I could have found out if it has AC motors or not but it was on a train to Shady Grove, so instead of it being across the platform when I got off at Grosvenor, it was probably in the vicinity of Twinbrook.
I got Breda 3066. The train was emptier than normal, I had the whole first car to myself after Medical Center. The Rorhs in front of us were pretty slow because we caught up to them by Grosvenor, even though we were normally spaced when I got on.
The Ride-On situation hasn't changed. 5619 and 5814 were still on the 37 although an Orion I was on the 46. Black ribbons were on both mirrors and are rather hard to see if you aren't looking hard. No notices about Sundays service on board the bus that I noticed. There were only 2 other people but Fridays are normally lighter than other days of the week.
Have any other DC SubTalkers returned to the Metro yet?
I've been taking the bus/rail during the whole time, but I'm not an everyday rider. I took the Orange Line to the Taste of DC Columbus Day weekend. I also took the 23A to Shirlington for Oktoberfest. It was an Orion V 42xx series, but I can't remember the whole number. All I remember was coming home, there was a street fest in Ballston and the bus driver couldn't figure out how to get to the Ballston Station. He kept going in circles until he realized that buses were allowed to go down a street blocked off to cars. I would have told him that, but everyone was telling him how to go, so I didn't want to bother. Last week, I took the 1C to Fair Oaks Mall, Orion V 2152 and the 2B back home, Orion V 2150. My g/f still rode the bus during this whole mess as it stops right in front of our apt., and it isn't really out in the open. I saw her get on Orion V 3912 last Sat. AM on the 24M from the balcony.
I laid low a little more than I usually did, but I did get out once in awhile and took the bus/rail. Tomorrow I may take another bus ride someplace if I get up at a decent time.
mmmmm...food....
I never really stopped riding. The only haibt I really changed was that... a few times I went to different gas stations. I guess growing up in NYC hardened me.
Wayne
On Nov. 12, Metro will begin a 90-day test of a new farebox that accepts SmarTrip cards to pay fares on 80 Arlington Metrobuses. Customers can still use cash, tokens, passes and tickets for fare payment on the test buses, but pennies will not be accepted. When using currency, bills can be inserted into the farebox facing any direction. Fare value can be added to SmarTrip cards on the test buses with cash, but during the test period there will not be the 10% bonus on value adds of $20 or more, as there is with a Metrorail fare purchase. To help speed boarding and processing, please add value using $5, $10 or $20 bills, rather than $1 bills.
During the test period, the new SmarTrip farebox may not always be available on all buses on the test routes, so customers using SmarTrip cards should be prepared to pay fares using cash and get paper transfers. See the SmartTrip on Metrobus brochure (pdf on Metro's website) for details.
Notes from the brochure:
It lists the routes the buses will run on.\
SmarTrip will encode transfers but passengers need to get paper transfers since the bus they are transfering to may not have a target
The top of the box has the SmarTrip target on the left closest to the door, dollar bills to the right, coins "above" that, and a screen with certain buttons "above" the SmarTrip target. It is easier to see the picture on the brochure.
I bet pennies are accepted, but as in NYC, they say they aren't to encourage people to not pay with 110 pennies.
Buses with the new fareboxes will have decals next to the door but the box may not be working at all times.
There wasn't much to see today except for a few noticeable ones. The first being that 8796 now has a bike rack as well as Northern's 8909, 8911 and 8919. One other observation was seeing Southeast Orion 6 on Landover route T18. By the way is Southeast 2099 still running from Four Mile Run. It would make sense that since Four Mile Run has gotten Bladensburg's Orion 6s, this bus would have shipped back to Southeast (actually Bladensburg, that is where some of Southeast's are stored at). That bus by the way was 2093.
I see 2099 on occasion. I haven't seen it lately, but I bet its still there as well. I've been seeing a lot of the 2070's from Bladensburg running around.
I see Flx Metro E's on the 1Z in the PM. Usually its 4049. Also saw 9253 running around. Spotted it on the 24P the other morning.
OOPS!! Posted my response to your other response. Boy, when thinking of Deion's suits, that really throws you off balance.
I also saw Orion 5, 9602, heading up 14th Street, seemingly towards Farragut Square to make an odd run on 16Y
LOL, yeah, Deion's attire makes me blind. He was such a waste with the Redskins.
I saw a 9800 series on the 16Y a few weeks ago, as well. They just use a whole mix of Four Mile Run buses on there.
I also observed a bus on "The Bus" route 18 and there was noone on that bus. I guess either the bus was ugly (a Champion) and noone wanted to ride it, or not enough people know about this route ( which maybe the case, as The Bus really does a poor job advertising its routes, case in point when I wanted to ride the 18 a couple of weeks ago at PG Plaza, I could get no schedule for this route or was there any bus stop signs for this route posted). Anyway their routes do take a while for people to ride, but honestly if it was a WMATA route (which it should have been) there might have been more people riding this route.
WMATA really could just take the F8 and extend it to Addison Road and that would basically be the 18 of "The Bus". The only difference is, the 18 goes down Univ. Blvd to 23rd Ave. then over to East West Hwy, whereas the F8 goes down Adelphi Road to Toledo Rd and over to PG Plaza.
The F8 could have taken the route the 18 is running now, and make the current F8 either a Monday thru Friday F9 or a seven day a week F10 that uses 30' buses, especially going thru those narrow Hyattsville streets.
I saw over the past couple of days buses in two commercials and one on a morning show outro.
The first was in a Chryseler where two guys were loading a small tv into a (forgot the name, very popular though). As they were loading the tv, in the far background, what looks to be a Foothill Transit Gillig coming down a hill.
The next was a promo for a new Jerry Seinfeld movie. As the commercial opens, two NYCTA RTSs pass by each other.
The outro was for the CBS Morning Show as they went to commercial a camera caught NYCTA Orion 5 257 awaiting a boarding rider.
I also like to watch the NFL Pregame show on CBS. They are right there on Fifth Ave. right next to the FAO toy store and you can see all sorts of buses running by. It was cool to see a NYBS Classic sit there for a bit at a stop while the camera was facing Dan Marino and company.
P.S. Deion Sanders needs to stop giving Boomer clothing tips!
LOL, yea I've seen some of Deion's suits and errr, no comment. I know some of Western's Cummins 9250s have been transfered to Bladensburg, has anymore of those 9250s have been transferred other than 9251 and 9252?
Yes, that's a good bus spotting area. Actually two blocks south at 57th & 5th Ave is even better. Of course if it was a weekday it would be a lot more interesting.
Wayne
One more I forgot. There has been a BP Amoco commercial around for a couple of months, where they are filming at Freedom Square and they are interviewing a person about alternative fuels, when a WMATA Orion 5 comes from behind. How odd would it have been to see a New Flyer CNG
in that commercial had it been filmed about a year later. I am pretty sure that Orion was running on a 30 route.
I remember two old WMATA commercials, they had in the late 80s. The first was a tv spot, done to the Beach Boys tune "I get around". The spot features, the rail, as well as MANNs, GM and Flxible new looks and I think either some RTSs or some Neoplans (when they were running).
There was also a radio spot where archepeligo(sp?) singers were singing: Traaaaffic, Traaaffic,Traafic, Traffic-Traffic-Traffic, I won't go into more seeing that I am doing a lousy job doing this. But it was funny when we were on our way to school on several occasions, getting stuck in traffic and the kids singing that WMATA radio tune. That's funny.
I remember that "I Get Around" promotion!! That was in the mid 80's. I think some of the ads on the buses used to say "I Get Around" as well. I remember also seeing an ad that WMATA did that showed a bus coming through the dessert, but I don't remember what the reasoning was, but it was Flx Metro B 9382 superimposed on there.
That "Traffic" ad drove me nuts when I'd hear it. I know exactly what you're talking about.
that is acapella popular on the streets of ny 1956-1963.
I remember that desert commercial also. What was the purpose of that one?
I'm not sure if it was to represent a mirage. I think there was a guy walking in the desert and was all worn out and then out of the blue came this bus, sort of an 'oasis'.
AWESOME! I am not only a busfan, but a Beach Boys nut as well. Where can I find a video orchive of this? Would someoen at WMATA have it?
I'll never forget when we had a similar promotion here in 1987, this time for a local "Wheel Of Fortune" spot; "I'm A Wheel Watcher" was sung to the tune of "I'm A Girl Watcher". Different local vehicles were shown in motion panning from the front wheel back, including a Valley Metro Flxible New Look, my favorite bus of all time.
Every time I hear the original song on an oldies station, I think of that good old Flx. Ah...the memories. :)
-Fred
They did that "I'm a Wheel watcher" here in DC too, but I don't think they did anything with the cars and buses like down there. That's a pretty cool idea though!
I'm not sure if the old ad campaign would be on archive or not. You could always email the customer service dept. at WMATA. Just go to www.WMATA.com and go to where you can contact them. They are pretty quick to respond to questions/suggestions.
Yeah, I guess the "Wheel Watcher" promo was a national thing, and each CBS affiliate was given creative license. I was real impressed what WDBJ-7 in Roanoke did with their spot and quite surprised that DC's affiliate didn't do something similar or more elaborate. No buses? That's just surprising.
Thank you for the info; I will try to contact those folks and see what I come up with. Who knows, maybe I can poke around down here and find our old spot as well. I do know one of the guys at our TA has an old 8mm video of our first Roadeo; this dates back to several years ago, and the Flxible New Looks were used exclusively. :)
-F.
Here is three more spots I remember that had WMATA, or in one case a pre-WMATA bus.
The first was a more recent D.C. Lottery commerical, filmed at Freedom Plaza where this reporter was doing a report there and a person who wanted to be on tv kept coming in the shot. I think there were at least two, with one having a WMATA Flxible and the other I think had an Orion 5.
The second was the 80s show "The Scarecrow and Mrs. King". I don't know if it was in the beginning or in one of the scenes, but once I spotted an AMG rolling past.
The third was even farther back, back to Wonder Woman, where in one scene, what I think was a GM Old Look in one of the scenes. I am not sure if this series was shot in the D.C. area or not.
I have seen the Scarcrow and Mrs. King, being shown in one of the channels that show retro shows.
On tonight's "Hack", there were 3 SEPTA bus sightings. Early in the show, there was a quick glimpse of a Neoplan. Later on, during a scene in a restaurant, a NABI passed by, and later on, we got a shot of a New Flyer's rear doors closing on Routr 52.
Today, I got bold & decided to take a multi borough bus/subway trip and I didn't pre-plan this so it was a "spur of the moment" thing and I wanted to go on different routes I never rode before. This is going to be a long story so I'm gonna break it up into 2 or 3 posts so it is easier to read. I leave my house at 2:15pm and I start out by taking a R40 arriving at Newkirk Av and were going good but this is the start of delays. Between Parkside & Prospect Park we get stuck b/c of a (Q) in front of us so we move on and we get stuck by the same (Q) again between 7 Av & Atlantic Av for about 10 minutes and we finally arrive slowly at Atlantic Av. At Dekalb Av, we get held for a 3rd time & it starts to frustrate me but I only have 2 stops so I cool down and we arrive at 14 St, where I get out to catch the M2. I had to wait about 10 minutes but I kept myself busy by looking at the MCI's running via Park Av South and then all of a sudden I see 3474 running on the M3.
Anyway, 8269 arrives and I hop on it & I get a 9/2002 'manhattan bus map'. So we're going very good and the speed was consistent until we reach 42 St, when the driver says he's ahead of schedule, when he arrived a couple of minutes late back at 14 St. He would do this quite a few times and the M1 local[253] & M3[3474] and my M2 kept passing each other until 72 St, when we finally left them behind for good and he is consistent again until 110 St, when he parks for at least 3 minutes on 2 stops on 110 St so I get of at Lenox Av and wait for a 2 to go to the Bronx. I saw a M106[8660] towards the FDR Drive I let a 3 train pass before a R142 2 train comes up & its a quick ride to 149 St/Grand Conc., where I wait for the 5. So I sit and wait until a redbird 5 comes up :-) so I jump on it right away although it was crowded and it was hot(aww, memories like this on the Redbirds will make me miss them so much). So I expect go ride the Bronx thru express to E180 St then via Dyre to Pelham Pkwy but I then realize it was too early & I had to ride it via local to Pelham, where I would wait for the Bx12 LTD.
As I get out the station, I see the 12 LTD and I run for it but the traffic light at Pelham just turned green & I miss it. I let the local[5287] go since I need the LTD to get to Bay Plaza. So I wait a couple of minutes until LTD bus 5345 arrives. We're going smoothly via Pelham Pkwy{its a nice Pkwy) until we reach Pelham Bay Park, there's a driver switch, seen a few Bee-line buses[those Flxibles have loud engines!] and after that, we continue going towards Bay Plaza and we pass the Gun Hill depot until we reach the last stop. So I walk through Bay Plz and look at the different stores until I reach Bartow Av, where I see the Bx28 arriving. So I hop on 8062 heading only to 205 St but that's where I'm going anyway. So were going pretty good and the b/o builds good speed on Co-op City Blvd for a while but since the bus was mostly empty for a long time, we eventually go slower until we reach Gun Hill road. Saw a lot of 8000's and 8800's on the Bx26,28 & 30 ALONE. I'll continue with part 2 in a next post.
So you were around Bay Plz today hmm? I was there but around 11:30 in the morning.
If you got there later you might have been going via White Plains Road to Pelham Parkway on the 5.
you would have also seen the Bx25 (to Co Op City only)
Continuing where I left off.......
So as the 28 gets more crowded, between stops, the driver rediscovers the speed and we get caught in some traffic but it wasn't that bad but other than that it was fine. So I get off at Bainbridge Av to wait for the Bx34, which takes some time to come and it was getting windy so in my head I was like hurry up bus but I notice that 9482 on a 28 had LED lights. So 9470 finally comes and I take the smooth and rather quick ride to Fordham Rd, where I will wait for the Bx9. A funny thing was that when the 34 driver saw something block the road, he honked at every little 'distraction', he even honked at double parked cars that they wee turned off. Anyway, I walk on a busy Fordham Rd, looking at all the stores & the amount of people there. So I go to a bus shed, wait for a bus, and when I look at the bus sign, it was for the Bee-line buses :-\ because I forgot that Kingsbridge Rd curves into Fordham Rd. So I see the 9 but I couldn't cross Fordham & I had no chance of jaywalking so I had to run to the next stop but I catch it.
So I board 5426, and I decide to sit in the "swivel" seat and I take the quick ride to Southern Blvd, where I will wait for the Bx19. Before I reach Southern, the 'Stop Requested' sign was blinking continuously at times while the doors WERE CLOSED and the b/o thought it was someone playing a prank but it was not.Plus, the 5 foot light near the back door was about to blow out since it was blinking. I get out and there's a crowd of people who looked like the waited for a long time & I see 6052 NIS going towards the Botanic Garden & heads back here in the quickness and riders were frustrated. Luckily, I didn't have to wait long but I would think about adding LTD stop service on this route b/c it got full by E 180 St. The driver builds speed whenever he could and at one point had to skip a few stops because it was almost jam packed from front to back. It got light by the 170's, but only got more crowded a short time later and I told myself once I reach 149 St, I'm taking the Bx17.
I wanted to avoid the Hub, it was getting crowded again and I was heading back toward Manhattan but seeing 145 St's traffic problems I decided to get off at Prospect Av and the 17 just missed the light so I catch it and its Orion 412. And its a quick ride to 138 St, where I will wait for the Bx33. On Prospect Av and the Bruckner, it is very dark and desolate, and heading west toward Manhattan, it gets brighter{sort of} in the 130s. I wonder how the 17 & 33 terminate at such a weird place, 132 St & Walnut depot ain't there anymore; oh well. So I wait for 6041 to arrive. This cabbie is talking to someone, parks in front of the bus stop & almost makes the bus pass me and another person. This is a much better alternate than the 19; less traffic than 149 St, less crowded, its a cool route. I take it to Fredrick Douglass Blvd and I'm deciding whether to take the M10 or the B,C train to 50 St.
So, being one of my favorite Manhattan routes, I see a 10 and I wait for 9651 to arrive{I was hoping for a '94 TMC but I'll take a '98 Nova}. There were very few people all together and 3 people after the early 100's. The driver drove well and from the low 100's, we didn't stop at ANY bus stop until 63 St, when myself & a lady got off and I passed by Lincoln Center to go catch the 1/9. Part 3 is coming up.
Here's the third installment. Continuing where I left off.....
So I go into Lincoln Center station and wait for the 1/9 to come. A 3 train bypasses the station and a few minutes later, a 9 train shows up and I board an R62A in the 1xxx series[1774 to be exact]. I know that's a shocker that's the 1st time I ever saw a 1xxx on the 1/9 EVER! So I take it 2 stops to 50 St, where I will wait for the M27/50 and luckily, a 50 is right nearby or else I would of had to wait 15 minutes for either one. So I get 4840 and I knew I was going to get a '88 TMC but its ok and I pass Rcokefeller Center and Radio City and I'm 'sightseeing' until I reach Lexington Av, where I will take the 6 train to 42 St then the express to Brooklyn. Shortly after I go downstairs, I see a R142 and I take it to Grand Central, where I see a set of R142's on the 4[7711-7720]. Thinking the 5 is still going to Brookklyn, its 8:30 pm, I let it go. BIG MISTAKE!
So the 5 comes 2 minutes after the 4 leaves and guess what?? Its only going ot Bowling Green so I'm like ok I'll take it to Fulton, take the 2 or 3 then the Q home but we get held, with a 6, at Grand Central for 10 minutes for some unknown reason. Then I just remember that I could get off at 14 St/Union Sq and take the Q home so I take a R142 5 train to 14th, wait until a R40 shows up. That goes very quickly, especially after Prospect Park and take it to Newkirk Av, where I wait until NF 932 arrives on the B8 and I take it home. This was no lightweight bus/subway trip it took 7 hours but it was fun & worth it. I got home until 9:15 and I was out all day. What a long, long story!
R40 4355
RTS 8269 M2 LTD
R142 6522(2)
R33 8889(5)
NF Artic 5345 BX12 LTD
RTS 8062 BX28
RTS 9470 BX34
NF Artic 5426 BX9
Orion 6052 BX19
Orion 412 BX17
Orion 6041 BX33
RTS 9651 M10
R62A 1774(9)
RTS 4840 M50
R142 7470(6)
R142 6767(5)
R40 4190
NF 932 B8
4840 is a 1987 TMC RTS.
#4840 M50
I know this might be asking for a lot, but I want to know where every single RTS(1981-1999) started at, meaning what depot did they came from first, i.e 8131-8171 started at FLA, 3985-4069? at ENY, 4600-46?? at JG, 9569-9605 at FP, 5075-5124 at GH, 8398-8399, 8567 at JG(now with Command).
I want to do a list(since I love math and numbers) for the number of originals(RTS's only) for every single depot, especially the ones with the least/most originals.
Here's a list of every single RTS that NYC(MTA) ever had:
1981/1982 RTS's: 1201-1758 (658)
1891/1982 RTS's: 2201-2704 (504)
1983 RTS's: 3001-3325 (325)
1984 RTS's: 3400-3799 (400)
1985 RTS's: 3800-4218 (419)
1986 RTS's: 4300-4599 (300)
1987 RTS's: 4600-4899 (300)
1990 RTS's: 8000-8399 (400)
1993 RTS's: 8401-8567 (167)
1994 RTS's: 8600-8703 (104)
1996 RTS's: 8750-9349 (600)
1998 RTS's: 9350-9699 (350)
1999 RTS's: 4900-5249 (350)
2000 RTS's: 6360 (1)
The total number of RTS's is 4878.
Note: 8400 doesn't count because it came from no depot, and 6360 did exist in service, that is why I included it.
It's 1858 not 1758 that 82 RTS-04's ended with.
Ok, I'll help you with the RTS'S from 1993 and I know some from the '87,'88 and '90/'91 series:
1993 RTS:(8401-8567)
8401-8460: FB,126 AND JG(8460)
8461-8487: 126
8488-8517: HP
8518-8567: JG
1994 RTS:(8600-8703)
8600-8670: 100 St(Now relocated)
8671-8703: ENY
1996 RTS:(8750-9349)
8750-8753: KB
8754-8898: Walnut,KB?,GH,MV
8899-8938: ENY, KB(8924,8926,8930,8937)
8939-8978: JAM
8979-9028: MV
9029-9073: 126, FB, JAM, UP
9074-9110: UP
9111-9139: MCH
9140-9185: FP
9186-9228: 126
9229-9249: GH
9250-9349: UP, YUK, JAM
1998 RTS:(9350-9699)
9350-9381: QV
9382-9443: FB
9444-9487: GH
9488-9534: HP
9535-9568: JAM
9569-9605: FP
9606-9618: HP
9619-9653: West Side(Now MJQ)
9654-9699: KB
I may be wrong on some of these. All corrections are welcome
A few corrections for ya:
9654 is at Quill. Saw it on the M42 yesterday. Yukon does NOT have any RTS Suburbans on their lines. Only Onions and MCI Cruisers.
Walnut does not have any buses yet as I think the depot is still in the process of being built.
8750-8753 as of now are still at MHV.
8600-8670 are still at MJQ.
8461-8487 are split among 126 St and HUD. Rode 8470 on the Q32 yesterday.
#8470 Q32
It's West Farms, not Walnut, that is in the process of being rebuilt. Walnut Depot closed around 1996, the building was sold off to the NY Post (or is it the Dept of Sanitation?)...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
It is West Farms, not Walnut because it closed in 1998 or 1999.
A few notes:
1.We're talking about where these buses FIRST started.
2.8750-8753 started at KB and now it is in MV.
"8600-8670 are still at MJQ."
3. I know that. I said they started out at 100 St. When 100 St closed, the TA created a new bus depot called West Side depot at a old Greyhound bus garage; its replacement for 100 St and got renamed for the late Michael J. Quill late last year or early 2002.
"Yukon does NOT have any RTS Suburbans on their lines. Only Onions and MCI Cruisers."
4.Until the MCI's first came in 1998, Yukon had Orions, 1985 RTS's AND 1996 RTS's as their express buses. Other bustalkers will tell you that[they had 9250's-92??].
"Walnut does not have any buses yet as I think the depot is still in the process of being built."
5. Walnut has been closed since 1998 or 1999 and it was closed beacuse:
a. The Bronx needed new, cleaner buses b/c of high asthma rates
b. They wanted to sell it
This is how KB and GH got bigger. AMS and MCH(which is a Bronx depot) operated some Bronx routes
This is a little off topic but of what I remember, Walnut had operated these routes:
Bx4,5,6,17,19,32,33. They MAY have operated the Bx13 and 27 and possibly others but I'm not too sure of this.
There seems to be a bit of confusion with The Bronx depots. Here's how it was...
In the old days (prior to the early 80's) the 3 Bronx depots were: Kingsbridge (even though it's actually in Manhattan), Coliseum (E. 177th & DeVoe Ave) and West Farms (Boston Rd & 175th Street). West Farms closed in approx 1983 and it's buses went to Walnut. Later KB was closed and the new KB built on the same site as the old KB. Next COL closed and the new West Farms is currently being built on the site of the old COL. The two buildings of the old WF are still standng although it's been abandoned for nearly 20 years.
8600-8639 started at OHS
8640-8670 started at AMS
8671-8703 started at ENY
Wayne
Why is Kingsbridge and Mother Clara Hale considered Bronx depots even though they're located in Manhattan(KB is at 218 St & B'way) & (MCH is at 146 or 147 St & Lenox Av)?
Any info is appreciated. Thanx.
Also, I was told that Amsterdam was transferred to the Bronx Division recently as well...it's a 129/Amsterdam...(correct me if I am wrong...)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Hasn't Amsterdam been in the Bronx division since the 80's, if not earlier?
It is strange, IMO -- the depot is in Manhattan and its most prominent route doesn't leave Manhattan.
Amsterdam is a Manhattan division depot. You're probably thinking of Mother Clara Hale depot, which is a Bronx division depot located in Manhattan.
No, I'm thinking of Amsterdam. If I'm familiar with any depot's operations, it's Amsterdam -- if I stick my head out the window and look down, I can watch M104's go by. If Amsterdam isn't currently a Bronx division depot, it was until recently.
But their depot stickers say "Manhattan Division" unless they weren't redesigned.
If they do, that's a recent change. I'll take a look at the decals tomorrow.
I did some web searches. It seems like Amsterdam was in the Manhattan division until 1998, when MJQ (West Side) opened and 100 and Walnut closed, at which point Amsterdam was switched to the Bronx division.
Ok, at least we cleared that up.
I don't know the answer about Hale or even AMS. However, KB is a case where it was only located in Manhattan, but it's buses primarily operated on Bronx routes. I'd say KB is much like FP which is located in Queens, but it's very much a Brooklyn depot.
Wayne
BTW, thanks for the info, Wayne.
1 question:
When did they first introduce depot stickers?
Any info is appreciated. Thanks
Sure... Always glad to help. I recall seeing the depot and "Quality Control Bus" decals for the first time around summer 1985. I started seeing them on 126th Street buses and then later they started showing up on OA buses.
Wayne
Now I gotcha. I was a bit confused for a minute.
#1979 X17
KB has #9655-9699.
I believe FP had #9186 first(I wish it would still be here).
Also, why would 8924, 8926, 8930, and 8937 be at KB first? They should've went to ENY.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea.
Contiuning on..
1999 RTS:(4900-5249)
4900-4944: QV
4945-5024: ENY
5025-5054: 126
5055-5074: FP
5075-5124: GH
5125-5144: MV
5145-5169: JAM
5170-5191: West Side(now MJQ)
5192-5204: HP
5205-5249: KB
Theses are the '87/'88 original assignments I know of:
4600-4682?: JG
4683-4730: UP
4731-4752: FB
4753-4792: Walnut?
1990/1991 RTS: (8000-8399)
8000-8089: GH
8090-8129: ENY
8130-8171: FB
8172-8292: 126, MV, 100 St?
8293-8316: YUK
8317-8339: CAS
8340-8399: MCH, QV, JG(8397-8399)
4753-4792 original depot was MC Hale.
Wayne
Thanks for the correction
8397(Methanol powered)was assigned to FLU(CS)not JG
5190-5191 started off at HP.
#5190 Q32
[1999 RTS:(4900-5249) 4900-4944: QV]
This may be overly technical, but I believe that when 4901 first came in as the prototype bus for this order (yes, it was 4901 and not 4900), it ran out of Kingsbridge depot. When the low 4900's later began their lives at Queens Village, 4901 eventually wound up over there.
Buses 8340-8396 originated at QV Depot; 8397 at FLU. Buses 8398 & 8399 started out at JG.
3400-3486 got their birth a jackie gleason
4600-4686 got their birth a jackie gleason.
I a partial list of those that I can remember:
PA1705-PA1746 FLU
2252-2262 KB
2263-2280 COL
2281-2300 KB
PA2443-PA2528 KB
PA2529-PA2579 COL
PA2580-PA2669 HUD
PA2670-PA2704 OTS
3001-3015?-126
PA3096-PA3144 AMS
PA3296-PA3325 HUD
3400-3486 FI
3487-3575 WAL
4190-4218 OTS
PA4300-4358 KB
4359-4407? WAL
I believe 1298-1317 Suburban RTSs were originally assigned to CAS.
3800-3899 Suburban RTSs went to Yukon first, then were split with CAS.
4854-4899 went to Yukon first, then split with CAS, with CAS having 4854-4872, and 4873-4899 at Yukon - and 4873-4888 were converted to Subruban (regular high back seats - some of them still running out of Hudson on M6,M9, etc.)
8293-8339 went to CAS first, then 8293-8316 went to Yukon, and CAS kept 8317-8339.
3750-3770 or 3772 I think started at CAS, and 3771 or 3773-3789 went to Yukon.
9250-9285 went to Yukon first.
I believe I am right - correct me if I am wrong. I think Yukon received some of the upper 1700-1800 expresses too, but am not sure.
I THINK it was Jackie Gleason but I could be wrong or it was both but not 100% sure, maybe someone can confirm that.
Some of the 3800's were at 100. They'd occasionally show up on the M18.
Thank you for you help everyone. Let me add some more.
1985 RTS's: 3800-4218 (419)
Note: 3800-3899 are suburban
3800-3899: CAS/YUK?
3900-3984: CS (I remember someone telling me this)
3985-4070: ENY
4071-4151: FP
4152-4218: KB?
1986 RTS's: 4300-4599 (300)
4554-4599: JA?
1990 RTS's: 8000-8399 (400)
8000-8089: GH?
8090-8130: ENY
8131-8171: FLA
8293-8316: YUK
8317-8339: CAS
8340-8396: QV
8397: CS (Thank you for the info)
8398-8399: JG
Also I believe FP had some 1400's awhile ago. 1470-1519??
I can barely remember this.
Wait, someone said 8293-8339 was at CAS first. So ignore that mistake I made. Yukon got 8293-8316 later on.
in 1990 buses 8280 to i believe 8319 were delivered to yukon 8320-8339 went to castleton. 8280-8292 were later sent to manhattan depots.8317-8319 went to castleton. 4789-4792 were sent to yukon in 1988 along with the 4800s. also 1239-1256 were up originals as well as 1430-1480.
KB didn't have any of the 1985 buses (3800-4218) when they were new. The 415X-417X buses were originally at HUD. The last of them went to OTS (132 Street).
Later when OTS closed most of their 1985 buses went to KB.
Wayne
Maybe from 1437? Since I remember FB's fleet going to 1436[I know they had 1376-1436 at one point] but that may have happened later on.
The 1990 RTS's
8000-8033 to 146th St (now MCH)
8034-8079 to GH
8080-8129 to ENY
8130-8179 to FLA
8180-8219 to 126
8220-8279 to HUD
8280-8339 to YUK
1986 RTS:
4300-4358 to KB
4359-4460 to WAL (now closed)
4461-4507 to COL (now WF)
4508-4553 to 126
4554-4599 to JA
I hope this helps
Thank you Q5, for your help.
Now what about the 1984, 1985, and 1987 RTS's?
-Jay
Since we are doing the RTSs, I'll start the Orion one.
1993 Orion
101-150 (nee 93001-93050) YUK
151-172 (nee 93051-93072) CAS
317-JG
1995 Orion
451-504 CAS
581-610 JG
611-630 CAS Suburbans
1996 Orions
631-680 YUK - NOTE - This order was to replace the order for Flxible Metro E's that were supposed to come in, but Flxible went bankrupt. Buses were to be numbered 1900-1949 or 1901-1950 I believe.
1999 Orions
6142-6248 CAS
6249-6349 YUK
I'm not too sure on the number splits on the 1993 and 1999 Orions that I listed, but they definitely started in one of the SI depots.
173-232 CS
233-254 CAS
255-316 EITHER GH OR KB
400-450 KB
505-580 CS
6000-6065 MCH
6066-6119 AMS
6120-6141 CS
6350-6359 MHV
6365 GH
Any corrections, please post here.
#553 Q32
Sure thing, Gary, #255-316 (actually, 233-316) were at KB, I dunno if Gun Hill ever had Orions at that time...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Kingsbridge actually had Orions? I didn't know that, I thought that:
233-255 started at CAS & YUK
256-316 started at CS
That's interesting.
1993 Orions(100-316):
93001-93072(now 101-172): CAS & YUK
93073-93096(NOW 173-196): CS
197-232: CS
*317: JG(CNG)
1995 Orions(400-680):
400-451: AMS?
452-459: JG
460-504: CAS & YUK
505-580: CS
581-610: JG(CNG)
611-630: CAS
631-680: YUK
1999 Orions(6000-6349):
6000-6065: MCH
6066-6120: AMS
6121-6141: CS
6142-6349: CAS & YUK
2000 or 2001 Orion:
6365: MCH?
All corrections are welcome.
400 & 401 were 1994's and they were at CS from the start
I remember seeing a pic of 401 on a BX-Route. Perhaps 401 started at KB? I think it was on the BX7. Not sure.
404 and 425 which now reside at CS, were once in Da Bronx.
#404 BX3
#425 Q27
401 I was told started in Casey Stengel Depot, not Kingsbridge Depot...404 and 425 were in fact in KB before they got transferred to Stengel.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
"Orions all over da place!"
Buses 400 and 401 started out at Casey Stengel Depot. I have shots of both of them before they even entered service. They are 1994 models and did not have the new MTA logos/numbering scheme. Their rear numbers were centered above the a/c vent like the 1993 Orions.
Mark
So 400 & 401 were delivered with the old two tone blue "M" logo also?
Yep. I remember seeing 400 and 401 with BX Style numbering.
Thanks Mark for the clear clarification-wasn't sure if 400-401 had started off at KB or not. Now I know they've been CS since the start.
#400 Q12
#401 Q13
400 and 401 were on staten island for awahile. they were running X-piece trips on the school runs on bay street.
401 may have indded started out at Stengel, but yes, it definitely did operate out of KB for a short amount of time. Another bus the came to KB for a brief stay was 93077 before it was renumbered.
Wayne
451-458 were at gleason when new.
I think it was 452-459.
459 was the first hard seater to arrive at castleton.
KB 233-290,298,301-316,402-451
Wayne
Last night at about 7:15 PM I was W/B on Hempstead Tpke, Farmingdale and stopped at the light at the beginning of RTE 109. Headed the opposite way was #620 being towed backwards by a big tow truck.
Presumably it was on the N70/71/72 that services the Farmingdale and Babylon area. Probably was mechanical since I didn't see any evidence of a collision.
Obviously breakdowns occur to LIB on the South Shore once in a while.
That bus will be a goner since they're getting CNG Onions for their routes.
#320 N71
I remember a long, long time ago always seeing at least one bus broke down (MSBA it was then) going to Jones Beach. That was when they had only Gilligs and Flxibles. The Gilligs constantly broke down, and I don't miss them one bit.
I guess maybe Gilligs had trouble at parkway speeds, those things were so slow. Not to mention they felt like they'd fall apart at any minute.
Who had the accident on Rt. 80 in Warren County NJ this morning? Was it Martz or Adirondack??
The day is not over but here is what is going on:
I saw two L8 buses on Connecticut Avenue this morning. I didn't note the time but it seemed they were on a regular schedule.
I saw 5100 series buses on the 5 and 26, routes that never run them. Since those buses aren't really operated by Ride-On, I have a feeling that they got ATE to do overtime for the drivers who wanted to go to the funeral.
I saw 5551, 5552, and 558X on the 46 at or near Twinbrook (for all three). The load didn't seem to be different than normal.
Most buses still had the black ribbons but they are hard to see most of the time.
Conclusion: The Washington Post indicated today would be a normal Sunday schedule. I think that is what happened, except with ATE buses filling in quite a bit.
I also saw a cutaway running on the 34 headed to Bethesda around 10:30 AM.
On the WMATA 1C today, the bus operator had a black ribbon around his nametag. That was pretty cool to see.
i saw a wmata orion II up at rockville metro. one of only 2 busses at rockville, pretty unusual. also spotted an international cutaway running route 5, dont know if those are ATE or ryder
mostly 2001-2002 Vs on 46, only number i caught was 5552 (1997?) looked like sunday schedules
I saw 5552 as well. I just saw 5134 (ATE/Ryder) on the T2, I wish I had my camera!
ATE and Ryder are the same thing. The real name of the company is ATE/Ryder.
On Saturday afternoon I saw an ATE-Ryder cutaway #5125 on route 15.
Wayne
I also saw 5134 (another cutaway) on the T2 but unfortunately, I did not have my camera. It seemed ridership was pretty light yesterday.
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC (reccommended) but do not know how to access the room using it click the link and then click on "How to get mIRC". If you want to get mIRC, follow the same instructions. Please note, the room has now moved to irc.webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
I just got a scanner today, does anybody know any bus frequencies I could put on that I could listen to?
Jason
Depends.
You want NYC Buses?
Private lines?
NJT?
I just saw on the news of the funeral for Conrad Johnson. They showed all of the local transit area's buses participating in the funeral procession. I spotted a MCI from PRTC, a couple of Orion Vs from Ride On (may have been more), with one being a 35' CNG, a University of Maryland Gillig and a Startrans from "The Bus". They were saying that Ride On is thinking of renaming a transit center for Conrad Johnson. I hope they also rename the Lyttonsville bus depot after him, since he was based out of that bus yard. Last there was one bus that had a placard that had "To The Memory of Conrad Johnson", like WMATA had for U.S. Park Police Officer Hakim Farthing on 4212 (and maybe 4272).
I know Conrad Johnson is in a better more, peaceful place. Rest In Peace Conrad Johnson and may God watch over your family and friends.
I saw the line of buses too on the news. One of Ride-On's Orion V's displayed "IN MEMORY OF" "CONRAD JOHNSON" on it's destination.
Wayne
At this time, every depot in the NYCTA/OA system is collecting donations for the Conrad Johnson fund. Those from Queens Division may see Richie Boles, Dennis Nugent or Charles Worrell for details. Other divisions, see your depot chair.
If any of you would like to participate in this fund, I'll privately email you an address to which you may send donations. Those interested, please make checks or money orders out to "Conrad Johnson".
They buried the last victim of the serial sniper yesterday, a bus driver whose slaying reverberated so widely that his three-hour funeral drew the overflow crowds and lengthy tributes more often reserved for dignitaries.
Conrad E. Johnson, a 35-year-old son of Jamaican immigrants and an Oxon Hill resident, was remembered as a working man who prided himself on his pot roast and curried chicken, loved to challenge his two young sons on the basketball court and romanced his wife from the moment they met in high school 17 years ago.
Nearly 2,000 people came to Glendale Baptist Church for the funeral yesterday. Johnson's death touched a chord in the working community -- the people who take the early bus, who wear uniforms, whose jobs seldom inspire envy.
"Conrad Johnson was at work when many of us were still sleeping," said Pastor Anthony G. Maclin of Glendale Baptist. "We need to show kindness, especially to people who serve. Perhaps we don't know their names. Perhaps they don't appear on television. . . . So many depend on people like Conrad Johnson, who faced his final moment standing on his feet."
Johnson was standing on the top step of his Ride On bus before dawn Tuesday, preparing for his first run of the day, when he was shot and killed. He had been a bus driver for 10 years, following in the footsteps of his stepfather, Tyrone Wills, who was recently promoted from bus driver to scheduler.
It was the 10th and final funeral attended by Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan since the sniper began the shootings that terrorized the region for three weeks.
As he spoke from the pulpit, Duncan's face reddened, and he broke into tears. "When I met the Johnson family at the hospital, they said, 'Catch him,' " Duncan said as he started to choke on his words. "Here we are today. I'm finally able to say this: We caught him."
Applause ripped through the large church, and people bounded to their feet.
"We caught them for you," Duncan shouted, pointing a finger at the congregation. "We caught them for Conrad, so they will never, ever be able to do this again."
But the relief of an arrest did not temper the sense of loss. "It doesn't make it any easier," said Braxton Wiggins, an operator with Ride On. "You've just lost someone who can't come back. It's nonreturnable."
Hundreds of bus drivers in ironed blue uniforms packed the church and stood three deep in the aisles. Those who couldn't fit inside the main sanctuary or the overflow room below milled around in the parking lot.
The day began with a slow, sad cortege of 30 buses representing 14 bus systems. They traveled 17 miles from the Silver Spring Metro station to the church in Landover. Every type of bus claimed a place in line -- shuttles for the elderly, minibuses, 40-foot transit vehicles, plush commuter coaches, diesel workhorses, brand-new natural gas buses. Black streamers dangled from side mirrors.
As the line of buses rolled along Colesville Road toward the Capital Beltway, people on the sidewalk stood at attention and waved small American flags.
"It could have been any of us," said C.B. Carter, a Metrobus supervisor who carried an envelope stuffed with $135 in cash -- donations for Johnson's family made by passengers. "When you're driving a bus, it's no different here than in Indiana or Florida or California."
Seven employees from the tiny South Bend, Ind., bus system drove 12 hours for 611 miles to reach the funeral. "He was a brother union man," said Alfonza Ward, one of the South Bend drivers, explaining why he made the trip.
Ride On operated a limited schedule yesterday to allow employees to attend the funeral. Rides were free all day in honor of Johnson. At noon, Ride On operators who were working pulled their buses to the side of the road to observe a minute of silence.
Robert Quander, a 64-year-old Ride On driver, said he's found kindness in the days since Johnson's slaying. "A lot of people we don't know have come up and given their condolences," he said.
"This week has been special because they have made bus drivers feel like special people." Johnson came from a large family, with aunts and uncles who have lilting Jamaican accents. His relatives filled 23 pews in the church.
Known to friends and family as "CeeJay," Johnson was devoted to his wife, Denise. On her last birthday, Feb. 15, Johnson called her from his bus and prompted his busload of passengers to sing "Happy Birthday" into the cellular phone.
Johnson and seven or eight other bus operators would get together on Friday nights, just because they enjoyed each other's company. In the small Silver Spring bus garage where they were based, the line between work and private time blurred.
"We'd just sit and talk and laugh about what was going on at work," said Nelvin Ransome, one of the group. "We'd have cookouts or fish fries or play basketball. We became friends. There was something about Conrad that drew you to him."
His warm demeanor earned him fans on the job as well. When he was preparing to start his route, Johnson would let children waiting for their school bus keep warm inside his idling transit bus. At Christmas, some passengers baked him cakes, Duncan said. After the shooting, his regular riders on Ride On Route 34 were in tears.
He was a strapping man, a weightlifter and athlete. Several of the 13- and 14-year-old boys he coached in basketball at the Fort Washington Boys and Girls Club attended the funeral. Teary-eyed, they presented a plaque to Denise Johnson, who gave each of them a long hug.
Conrad Johnson took his last ride yesterday in a white hearse, escorted to the Resurrection Cemetery in Clinton by a mile-long line of buses.
© 2002 The Washington Post Company
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24360-2002Oct26.html
Lyndsey Layton and Hamil R. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, October 27, 2002
RIP Brother
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
does anyone know where i can get pictures of the funeral precession?
may conrad johnson rest in peace.
How morbid.
At Rockland Coaches, we are putting together some funds to send down to his family. This was a topic at our Union Meeting this past week.
R I P fellow operator!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Coach USA/Rockland Coaches Bus Operator
Last Night on ABC7. There was a parade of Buses going to church for Conrad Johnson. It was run by a OrionV #5705 with "In Honor of Conrad Johnson" Ad on the sides and the rear and the rear sign was sign up as "12" also in the parade where a Omniride MCI D4500 signed up as "SPECIAL" and right behind it looked like a White Gillig.
Did any news station besides ABC7 show the parade of buses going to church for Conrad Johnson?
5705 was the bus on which Johnson was shot. I am surprised it was already running.
Same here; however, buses do outlive people in these situations. If only their drivers were as bulletproof as they are.
-F.
5705 is the same bus that Conrad Johnson lost his life on while standing on its steps at a layover, hence the ad on its sides.
My heart goes out to his family; may God rest his soul.
-F.
I heard that the artic bus are returning to the m15 line. Is this true or false? Please let me know
True...EVENTUALLY. Unless NYCT changes its collective mind.
David
That sucks, I think out of all the route in manhattan the M15 should get them and alot of then too. The M15 is the the slowest route in manhattan. And you never get a seat in one of then until the very end. When these buses do come it always a pack of them. Why do bus driver tailgate one another?
Articulated buses are just as capable of bunching as standard-size buses. Bunching can be caused by a lot of things, working singly or together. Among them are traffic conditions, weather conditions, and a long time spent at one or more particular bus stops on a particular trip for whatever reason.
The M15 probably would have gotten artics from the get-go, but 126th Street Depot was not physically ready for them -- the depot was being worked on at the time.
David
You're right artics don't solve everything. To "madison", look at the M23 and 79(the 86 isn't too bad) look at what having artics did to those routes. But I do agree that the M15 is too slow, locals tend to keep up with LTD's and bunch like crazy.
look at the M23 and 79(the 86 isn't too bad)
It isn't? I beg to differ!
Ok, I admit it, the 86 joins that category of bad service as well. I took a trip on Friday, I was on the M2 and I saw a crowd of at least 30 or 35 people(no joke) waiting only to see 2 M86 atrics towards the west side bunched together.
Bring the RTS's back to the M23,79, and 86!!
I think part of the problem stems not from the size of the buses but from an apparent change in dispatching procedures.
It used to be common for two buses to be loading passengers simultaneously at Broadway.
That doesn't seem to be done any more. One artic will sit at Broadway for 10-15 minutes while its follower is sent ahead to Amsterdam. Yesterday, while walking past Amsterdam, I saw something even stranger: a crush loaded bus stopped at Amsterdam (EB) being passed by an empty bus.
Westbound, although dwell times are still too long, they're nothing like the dwell times at Broadway eastbound. I live a few blocks from 86th and Broadway and I don't think I've taken the EB M86 in over a year -- it's faster to take the subway down to 42nd, across, and back up, and it's a pleasant walk in nice weather. Maybe I'm unique, but I don't think 30 minutes to get from Broadway to CPW in the early afternoon is reasonable.
I was on MTA Orion 278 the other morning. It didn't have a regular floor....it was all flat and blackish with little silvery sparkles on it. It wasn't all stripey and...ummm....yeah. Something like that.
It's floor is probably like MCIs 1860, 1862-1869, which weren't able to have the linoleum installed due to a strike.
When will the 100 street depot open. We all waiting for the big opening. And the route that will be assigned to that depot and the buses too
100th Street Depot is supposed to open in 2003. If plans hold, it will open with a "soft" opening (only a few routes to get the "bugs" worked out), then there will be a full opening. What routes will be going there will become evident as we move closer to the opening date.
David
It was supposed to open in September but you know the MTA when it comes to projects(no disrespect to MTA workers) but as other bustalkers said, its going to open in 2003, and if Hudson Pier is closing, lots of routes may switch depots similar to when West Side(now MJQ) depot opened.
There's no disrespect to NYCT workers in here. Depots are built by contractors FOR NYCT (MTA), not BY NYCT workers.
David
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
.....like SEPTA did at Allegheney? I`m curious since it seems that it is the only system to do such a thing. If there are other transit systems that do this, please post the info on the board.
Thanks
Mdlbigcat
Mark.
Is Allegheny an all-artic depot? I was there with a group earlier this year (probably in the Spring) and there seemed to be 40 foot buses at that depot, both Neoplans and NABI's.
Operationally, Allegheney is an all-artic depot, if you saw a NABI or a Neoplan, they were just visiting. Maybe you might have got it mixed up with the nearby Midvale Depot, which has artics, NABIs, Neoplan 40 footers, and a few Eldorados.
During the PM rush hour on Friday I saw a WMATA bus deadheading with it's front door open. I'll leave out the fleet number/location as I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble. This is something that I haven't seen in years. Up until I was 9 - we lived near to West Farms Square and I regularly saw COL buses deadheading to/from the depot. During this time it was rare to find a TA/OA bus with A/C (even on those equipped w/AC) and it was my guess that when deadheading the B/O's would seize the opportunity to get more air by driving with the door open.
Wayne
The operators area is about 20 degrees warmer than that of the passenger area. The large windshield, with no overhang, acts to cause a "greenhouse effect" which maintains a warmer environemnt, regardless of the booster blower system in place. That is, if it's working properly, and if the AC is working properly. Many times, it circulates luke-warm air, if anything at all. The booster blower is noisy, and blows down onto your head and face, as opposed to across your body, such as in your passenger vehicle. During periods of rain, the condensation on the windshield can leave visibility to a bare minimum. Many defroster units do not work properly or effectively. Additionally, the defroster is part of the operators cabin heat. Therefore, any use of the defroster/defogger will also supply an ample amount of heat to the area. Many buses have broken or missing deflecor shields, which forces this hot steamy air directly into your eyes.
Now, given a hot summer rainy day, you can imagine the anguish one faces when operating an RTS.
This is the main reason we open the front doors when deadheading (yes, I do). But there are others:
The bus smells of a previous passenger.
The bus seat smells of a previous operator..
The bus is hot.
The AC isn't working.
The DF isn't working.
The windows are fogged.
There's something on the front steps...
There's something rattling around in the back that I'm hoping reaches the front steps...
The bus has a fuel leak.
Etc. etc. etc...
You got that right! Say it Again BROTHER!
Tony M.
I forgot to mention that the bus was a Flxible METRO-B. I was suprised because Friday was overcast and not very warm. It immediately bought back old memories for me because I do not recall seeing this done on a NYCT bus in many years. I've seen Green Bus Lines buses in passenger service operating with the door open more than once.
Thanks for the explanation.
Wayne
It is easier to drive with the doors open on a Flxible because, when the front door is opened, It does not hang out like the RTS buses do. I know I d it sometimes when I am driving the Flxible. It can get hot, Esp due to the sun hitting down on you. Gotta have that Breeze every now and then.
Tony M.
I agree and understand. Thanks for giving me the B/O's perspective. I'd also guess that this is way B/Os often have their window open when the A/C is on.
Wayne
The small window creates a vacuum effect drawing the cool air from the air-conditioned rear across the body of the operator.
I've seen Green Bus operating with the REAR DOORS OPEN. Figure that out and get back to me.
Not quite the same, but I was once on a CUMTD bus that appeared to be configured to unlock the rear door whenever the bus stopped -- including stops in the middle of an intersection waiting to make a left turn. Or at least the green lights turned on each time the bus stopped. (MTD New Flyers lock and unlock their rear doors silently, and I wasn't about to cause a potential accident by opening the door in the middle of a turn.)
That sounds like a bus with no modified rear door interlock, meaning the brake pedal does not have to be depressed to release the doors. A simple turn of the door handle in the rear-open-only position will slowly stop the bus and unlock the rear doors without a MRDI system.
The CUMTD buses definitely don't have MRDI's. What was unusual was that each time the bus stopped, the rear door lights went on, and then went off again when the bus started moving. The driver clearly wasn't manually turning the door handle each time.
I though that the drpressing of the brake pedal to lock/unlock the rear doors was a NYCT(A) thing.
Wayne
I've seen that on a bus somewhere. I get this one driver on the Ride-On 37 who has to step off the bus to adjust his mirror on the right side en route sometimes, so when he opens the door to do it at red lights, he sometimes puts the door handle so the rear door will unlock. I have also seen drivers who try to make the bus go before the back door is closed. Needless to say, we don't go anywhere.
What aggravates the problem of proper ventilation is that on some RTS buses you only have a vent vent window for paying tolls or to release the air pressure to open the front door by hand. There's no sliding window to either let air in or exhaust stale air out, though I've seen some of the privates with a sliding window for the driver. When I drove a RTS on a cold day, the driver heat wasn't working, but the drver compartment did get hot from the incoming sunlight.
I was in Boston 2 weeks ago and I noticed that their RTS had the full height opening for the drivers' window
Wayne
RTS #8374 has the sliding side window. It's more of a distraction than anything else.
I was told sometime ago through the grape vine that NYCT did not want their RTS's to have the sliding operators window for safety reasons. I drove 8374 several times when I was at QV and liked that window. I always wondered how that bus wound up with it. I figured maybe somebody at the replacement window manufactuer stuck the wrong glass in the box and QV maintainence just decided to use it anyway.
BIG AL
What's deadheading?
Deadheading = operating from one point to another without carrying passengers (usually a depot isn't either of the points -- that would be considered a pullout or a pullin).
David
Or a run-off or a run-on.
I have seen this regularly with Green Lines, Triboro and QSC, with only the RTS's (I think Orions won't let you drive with thr front door open).
Usually in summertime (I guess the ac was malfunctioning)
I'm sure Rideon's Orions wont let u drive with it's front door open because they have door immobilizers, however, some busses have this disabled. i dont know about wmata's busses. you should see nyc's school busses during the summer, it's a 100% guranteed that deadheading ones have front doors open.
does anybody know what was conrad johnson's badge number?
Our Gillig Phantoms at Rockland Coaches do the same thing, its a Door Interlock, the door must be closed before that bus moves, however there is a disable switch in the circuit breaker compartment that most drivers shut down. As for our Orion 01.508's we can fly down NY Highway 59 with the door wide open!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
All buses have a dump valve which releases air pressure allowing the door to be manually opened. In this case, any bus can deadhead with open front doors.
BTW- what does Conrad Johnson's badge number have to do with this thread?
It's not a dump valve, its a Door Interlock switch that says ON or OFF.
I D K what CJ's badge has to do with it, as Ride On NEVER used Driver ID Badges. So refer that to the person who said that in the other post.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
sorry, somebody asked me what was his badge number. i never knew rideon doesnt use badge numbers.
This goes back to when I was in junior high school, which was the mid 1960s. I remember one bus driver who, on particularly hot days, would sometimes leave his front door open while in revenue service, if there were no standees near the front of the bus. Those of us seated near the front really appreciated the breeze!
If anyone needs the above information, please supply your snail mail (USPS Mailing) address. Nine pages of information regarding the Bronx 2/5 Shuttle is available (I caved-in and worked that thing this weekend).
4 Pages of Maps
1 Face Sheet
1 Route Description
1 NYCTA / OA Complete Depot Run Assignments
1 Queens Division Run-On/Off
1 Bus Stop Guide
I'll take the first 3 who are interested in this. Email to me:
Your Name
Your address
Your City, State and Zip
I rode that shuttle yesterday. It was so funny....they had buses from just about every depot lined up behind each other. It was like the United Nations of buses! ;-)
While on lunch, I saw MCI 2116 and I believe it was on the X17.
Bus was stopped at Church and Park Place in the MTA stop. It started pulling out with directional signal on and it was cut off by some stupid delivery van driver who made a right turn onto Park Place in front of the bus. There were no vehicles the rest of the way on Church Street ahead of the bus in the right lane pat the intersection. The left side of the bumper on the bus clipped the van. The bumper was shifted out of place a little and had white paint on it.
Who is to blame? From my understanding of DMV road rules, the operator should not be at fault - when making a right turn, you are supposed to be in the farthest right lane possible. The van driver wasn't and he cut off the bus. - My verdict is that the van driver was 100% responsible.
you said it started pulling out. although i agree with you according to nyct b/o is 50 percent at fault despite what the van driver did.
Cars, vans, and taxis are always cutting off buses. It's a miracle there aren't more accidents.
Usually, a bus should only exit a bus stop when safe to do so (easier said than done, I know). Could he have started to roll forward prior to viewing the left mirror? It's possible, but, I would classfy it as an "inquiry" and interview the driver further before deciding on chargeability. No question that it was definitely preventible.
..............is Orion V #121 repowered. Saw this bus this morning at the corner of Park Place and Church Street.
For whatever reasons an Orion V was placed on the X1, someone must have been smokin' some stuff while assigning buses. If the operator wasn't trained on the MCIs yet, should have swapped routes and runs for a day with a lighter passenger load bus.
all si b/o are mci qualified.
Hi All,
I'm finally back in the saddle. Just updated the TransiTALK MTA-NYC Bus Roster for you enjoyment!
Have a Safe and Blessed One!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I was sort of wrong thinking that Royal might be the next garage getting bike racks, but I was close in saying that after Royal, Southeast would get them and they are. Today I saw 4223 with one. Didn't get out much today, went to run a chore, so I didn't really didn't see if any more Southeast buses had them. That and the fact that I was basically in Bladensburg garage country, which means a CNG here, a CNG there, CNGs everywhere, with your typical Orion II thrown in.
Has anyone seen an Orion II with a rack yet? Western's don't have them.
None as of yet. I forgot to mention, Bladensburg hasn't gotten bike racks yet, except of course for the New Flyers. Here is an oddity, in that either 3723 or 24 has turn signals at the top as with the heavy duty buses.
Are you certain??? I thought I had seen one near to Tenley Circle.
Wayne
Bladensburg's NABIs, and now 9250s, 8950s, and 8971-75, have yet to receive bike racks. I left them out.
Who's left?
Landover ( will be last)
Royal (should be next, if not them then Bladensburg)
Southeastern Annex ( I guessing they'll be done with Southeast)
Bladensburg non-CNGs ( will be among the next ones, wouldn't be surprised if they are done with Royal)
You mentioned seeing an Orion II at Rockville. This morning on the Metro, they said the elevator at Rockville was out, shuttle from Shady Grove. I am assuming the Orion II was the shuttle on standby, since there are no routes that use an Orion II out there.
oh i see, i also spotted 5725 today with a banner on it's right side saying "In Memory of Conrad Johnson" no other busses i saw today had that banner.
It must have been one of the buses in the procession on Saturday. Only about 3 buses had them. Someone showed me a picture of the procession and you could see the buses, although all you could see were 7-10 1999 Orion Vs followed by some CNG buses from Ride-On. Only about 3 or 4 of the buses had the banner.
5619 no longer has the black ribbons on the mirrors but I did see an ATE/Ryder bus, 5136 IIRC on the 96, with them. First time I had noticed an ATE/Ryder bus with the ribbons. I could not see if 5814 had the ribbons or not.
Do people here still want to make a group contribution to the fund and if so, how are we going to organize it?
Watching News Channel 4 just before 6:10 pm reporting via a live copter cam over the SI Xway that NYCT bus 1865 MCI was involved in an accident with a car. Hopfully no serious injuries are involved.
I know the NYC Marathon is this Sunday. I go into Manhattan on sunday to Riverside Park and take QM1A to M5 alot. I still takeing the QM1A even if it's a bad day to do so. So I hopeing the QM1A would not be cancelled since I relly need it that day.
I know there's to be alot of Detours on the buses and some routes would not run the whole way or not at all. Do anybody know what is to happin this Sunday?
Why not take the subway?
Here at QSC our Transportation Department says: All QM Express buses are going to try to run normally. Q101 has some minor changes of how it gets to/from Manhattan via Queensboro bridge. Q67 also has some changed in it's route.
Mr rt
Thurston,
Hi,,can you send
the details of changes to the Q67 and Express routes,,regarding the Marathon
Thanks
Steve Lowenthal
216 North Fulton Av
Fleetwood NY 10552
FDNY
I didn't ask a lot of questions to answer this, so I don't have the detail. Why not give us a call, 718-445-3100.
Thanks! Would you please post the Detour Routeing?
First, I'm not the "official source" of this information, so that being said ....
Q67 Changes in Queens on Jackson Ave ... 21 St to Jackson, Jackson vs. 42 St
Q101 Lwr roadway to Manhattan, upper back to Queens
Q102 From Roosevelt Isl to Queensboro Plaza, it will stay on 41 Ave to 28 St
I hope this helps, and please if you need more detail call our Transportation Department at 718-445-3100. We staff the phones week-days all day ... I think they start answering about 8 AM.
I rode 9291 on the Q17 today, and it had 37 seats, while the local RTS I had counted previously had 41.
Orion, here I come!
Thanks. I was not relly too shure if they have more seats or not
Please count again. 9291 should have had 39 seats, and a standard NYCT hard-seater RTS should have 40.
David
Orion 119: 42 seats.
Orion 620: 41 seats. (one less seat because of the....thing in the back)
So it looks like the Orion Surburban seats more than the local, but it's the other way around with the RTS.
Published Friday, October 25, 2002, by Van Hool
Van Hool A330 -- Bus Of The Year 2003
Belgian vehicle technology gets international recognition
[BATN note: AC Transit has started taking delivery of 119 of these.]
Each year, the jury of trade journalists from 14 different western
European countries selects the best PSV: a coach in even years and a
bus in uneven years.
Five manufacturers accepted the jury's invitation to enter their
latest buses into this biennial Euro Bus Test: Berkhof, Mercedes,
Neoplan, Volvo and Van Hool, i.e. a representative sample from the
quite heavily reduced number of European PSV manufacturers. After a
week of intensive tests of key performance indicators, the
experienced trade journalists come to a verdict. Van Hool is proud to
win from larger players. The coveted award is an incentive for a
company competing every day with the big European makes. Five years
ago the award was given to Van Hool's new coach concept.
The Bus of the Year title is an appreciation for Van Hool's constant
efforts to enhance public transport by bus and a confirmation of the
underlying value of Van Hool products at a time there is a fierce
fight worldwide for public transport orders.
Van Hool has moulded its ideas on public transport into the different
concepts and executions it launched in the past, but always taking
into account the objectives of the authorities and the transport
undertakings. Standardization and modular construction methods are
aimed for, but never to the detriment of operational effectiveness or
passenger conveniences.
As one of the trendsetters, Van Hool launched in 1985 the first three
doorway bus with a stepless gangway throughout the whole vehicle
length. A mid-mounted engine to one side of the wheelbase enabled
this. This was a unique and obstinate construction as it was breaking
with the traditional driveline setup. This concept evolved to genuine
low floors in midibus, 12m, 18m articulated and 24.8m double
articulated versions. Thirty-cm high low floors seem to be the end
mark for accessible buses. Technical evolutions and new emphasizes on
design allowed Van Hool to update, re-think and renew its bus range
in terms of mechanics, electronics and comfort.
The latest generation of Van Hool urban and interurban buses was
unveiled at UITP's congress and exhibition in London last year
(International Public Transport Union). The enthusiastic reaction
from the international public transport world incited Van Hool to
renew its entire bus range. 500 units were ordered within a year of
the launch.
Winner of the bus of the year 2003 competition is the A330: the 12m
version of Van Hoolˇ¦s new generation. This low floor bus has its
engine unit mounted upright in a stack in the rear offside corner
with the radiator above it. The bus is a well-considered and high-
quality product with outstanding economic performances, thanks to:
* A flat floor throughout the entire vehicle length, without any
gangway step.
* Wide apertures at the gangway and the 3 doors.
* A spacious platform at the centre door.
* Standee space at the rear door.
* Good accessibility for wheelchair travellers, prams and shopping
trolleys.
* An impressive spacious feel by the tidy interior design and
panoramic side windows.
* A modern look in today's traffic.
* Up-to-date and proven technology of the electric/electronic vehicle
architecture and the internal/external passenger information
displays, -- all with respect for the environment.
* The incorporation of years of experience as an independent
manufacturer in respect of vehicle suspension and manoeuvrability for
optimal road behavior and safety.
All this leads to the model urban bus offering maximum passenger
flow, short boarding/alighting times, resulting in a maximum
commercial speed, excellent passenger comfort and perfect vehicle
handling, -- in short "the" bus of the year. Van Hool will
participate with this citybus to all forthcoming tenders.
The award will be presented on the FIAA Trade Exhibition in Madrid
(23-26 October) where all major bus manufacturers will be present.
How did AC Transit manage to get around the "Buy America" policies of the FTA? Did Van Hool do any of the construction within the US?
Easy, one of two things happened.......
1) The Van Hool A330 40 Footer and AG-300 60 Footers were paid by AC Transit Completely with NO Help from the FTA
2) Since Van Hool is under ABC Companies of America, ACT may have purchased the buses from ABC Companies, and probably had some final assembly here in the US.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Just read on their website that the company wil lower fares between GWB plaza in Ft. Lee , NJ and the GWB Terminal in NY from $1.40 to $1. This move should get more people to ride the buses instead of those awful vans. This will go into effect on Nov. 4.
Troy
Thanks to NJ Transit raising the fares from $1 to $1.40 in the first place, it hightened Red & Tan's Ridership across the bridge.
Prime Example, last Wednesday on my last 9A trip from the GWB Terminal at 11:30, I left with 16 people on the bus, 15 of them were just for Bridge Plaza. Our fare for the bridge always remained $1.
Among other things, due to the fare hike by NJT, Red & Tan's ridership has grown from the following towns:
Harrington Park (Our Routes 14, 14E, 14K, 20, 84 & Which is shared with NJT Route 167)Englewood (Our Routes 14, 14E, 14K, 20, 84 & Shared with NJT Routes 166, 178, 186)
GW Bridge Plaza Fort Lee (Our Routes 9A, 14, 14K, 11C, 84 & Shared with NJT Routes 171, 175, 178, 181, 182, 186, 188)
While passengers pay above $4 for a ride from Harrington Park on NJT, Our Fare is just $4 for the PABT and $3.85 for the GWBT. While passengers pay above $3 for a ride from Englewood on NJT, Our fare is $2.90 to PABT and $2.15 to GWBT.
While NJT's fare hike was needed, we had our fare hike too and was able to keep it under NJT's rate hike, where as before NJT was cheaper than us.
Again, THANK YOU NJT!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches-Coach USA Operator
0.0 you work for Red&Tan Lines!? I didn't know that,that's so cool! Although now I don't know if you were on the 20 or the 11C on the day I went to Nanuet Mall and Palisades Center. >.<
I can't quite remember the exact date that I went there,but I believe it was sometime 2 weeks ago or much earlier than that.
I work the 20 line on Wednesday & Sunday, AND I have a name plate on my bus with my full name. Next time pay attention You never know!
My Run Is........
Wednesday
3:00p Route 20 From Harrington Park to Palisades Center Mall
4:10p Route 20 From Palisades Center Mall to 42nd St PA Bus Term
6:40p Route 14E From 42nd St PA Bus Term to Montvale
9:10p Route 9A From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to New City, NY
11:30p Route 9A From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to New City, NY
Thursday & Friday
2:24p Route 11C From Westwood to Spring Valley, NY
3:30p Route 11A From Spring Valley, NY to 42nd St PA Bus Term
6:10p Route 21 From 42nd St PA Bus Term to New Milford, NJ
7:20p Route 84 From Westwood to 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term
8:30p Route 14 From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to Harrington Park
9:15p Route 14 From Harrington Park to 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term
10:30p Route 14 From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to Harrington Park
Saturday
3:09p Route 11A From Westwood to Spring Valley, NY
4:07p Route 11C From Spring Valley, NY to 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term
5:45p Route 11C From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to Spring Valley, NY
7:15p Route 11C From Spring Valley, NY to 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term
8:45p Route 11C From 178th St GW Bridge Bus Term to Spring Valley, NY
Sunday
4:05p Route 20 From Harrington Park to 42nd St PA Bus Term
5:15p Route 9A via Local Street to GWB Bus Term then to New City, NY from PABT
7:40p Route 9A From New City, NY to 42nd St PA Bus Term
9:30p Route 20 From 42nd St PA Bus Term to Pearl River, NY
That's it, so recall your records!
Trevor Logan
cool,thanks! next time I go to Palisades Center I'll make sure I go on a Wednesday and at a time where I can be there around 4:00PM.
What is New City like? I haven't been there in 15 years, when I visited a relative.
One Phase:
LITTLE MEXICO!!!!!!
Trevor
It was on Tuesday October 8th that I went to Palisades Center and Nanuet Malls.Were you on the 20 from the PABT at 10:05AM or from Palisades Center at 2:20PM? Or the 11C from Nanuet to GWB at about 3:20 PM?
[This move should get more people to ride the buses instead of those awful vans.]
I am not a big fan of the vans that ply various NJ Transit bus routes, but had an experience today that showed me why so many people use the vans. I was waiting for the 12:43 pm Route 171 bus from Bergen Mall to the George Washington Bridge Bus Station and got to the bus stop about 10 minutes early. The 171 came almost 10 minutes late, which wasn't too bad. But during the 20 minutes I was waiting, there must have been about 4 or 5 vans that came along, for an average headway of 4 or 5 minutes. Compared to the 171's headway of 35 minutes*, it is no surprise that van ridership has gone up on the route while NJ Transit ridership has gone down. Many people want decent service and don't care much whether it is a bus or a van - they will take whatever comes first.
*35 minute headways are ridiculous, forcing passengers to always refer to the timetable. A 30 minute headway would allow passengers to know at what times each hour they can catch the bus. While the 35 minute headway probably means NJ Transit pays for one fewer driver, it makes it more difficult for passengers to use the route, giving the vans more of an advantage.
SEPTA (the old PTC) , has vehicles running on 1/2 minute times. If it took 10 minutes to get from point A to point B, shaving a half minute off adds up to mucho dollars over one year.
Chuck Greene
In Passiac and Clifton NJ the headway is in my opinion one block with the minibuses going to the GWB . It looks so wierd with two-way one lane Main Street littered with the minibuses .
According to today's Newsday, the CNG operations are ten years old. The article touts the advantages of cleaner air and that the fleet will be all CNG by next year.
Also states that the cost per bus is more than a diesel. Doesn't say if costs of operating, maintenance and repairs are more or less than diesel.
We should've stayed with diesel! LI Bus isn't exactly flush with money, so staying with diesel would've meant more money for service, less for pleasing the tree huggers.
that is only if the CNG buses are working. Some of the time, at least posted here, they are not. I hope they keep at least a few orion V that are not CNG in reserve status.
N79-#330-Orion V-CNG
N94-#631-Orion V
CNG is more expensive then diesel period.
But then that's part of the cost of cleaner air !
Some would vote for the return of leaded fuel, not me.
When are we going to get serious about replacing the internal combustion engine & our dependance on gasoline & oil ?
If we drove elect. cars we would care what was going on in Iraq, and the bully there would be tending sheep.
No, it's the cost of a PERCEPTION of cleaner air. Studies have shown that "clean diesel" (higher grade fuel and particulate aftertreatment) can be just as clean if not cleaner at a much lower cost (including NO infrastructure changes).
David
How did AC Transit manage to get around the "Buy America" policies of the FTA? Did Van Hool do any of the construction within the US?
Easy, one of two things happened.......
1) The Van Hool A330 40 Footer and AG-300 60 Footers were paid by AC Transit Completely with NO Help from the FTA
2) Since Van Hool is under ABC Companies of America, ACT may have purchased the buses from ABC Companies, and probably had some final assembly here in the US.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Im a rider of the b1 to work each morning and i notice that the B1 does get crowded (NO standing room on steps) on trip to Kingsborough Community College. Buses routinely pass customers going to KCC because they are so crowded. Why doesnt Ulmer Park run a shuttle between Brighton Beach Av-Coney Island Avenue to Kingsborough College during the AM hours(Between 7a-9a). Unless UP is short buses because i was told by a maintence guy yestrday at UP that the local fleet has gone down from 240 to 160 buses. Does UP have enough buses to do this?
#4777-B1-To work-RTS
#4874-B1-TMCRTS-from work
The overcrowding may be because the dispatchers assign the 9250's RTS express coaches for the B-1 route.
I believe that these RTS Express Buses hold less passengers than regular buses
Hope this helps
Again i am speculating only
Thank You
The ex-express coaches are indeed part of the problem, but they're not the whole problem.
When Stillwell shut down, riders reoriented themselves (no pun toward Oriental Boulevard intended) in ways that were not anticipated. One of the things they started doing was getting on the B1 farther back along the line (previously most of the action was between Brighton Beach and the college). In addition, enrollment at Kingsborough College is up over last year.
NYCT already runs some shuttle-type service on the B1 between the Ocean Parkway station (because it's easier to turn around there than at Brighton Beach) and the college (to the college in the AM, from the college in the PM). The buses are in regular B1 service and can make any stop along the portion of the route they traverse. That will continue, but other adjustments are planned.
David
David,
As part of the 1995 Southwest Brooklyn study it was proposed to extend the B-74 to Mackenzie Street/Oriental Blvd as a one seat ride from Coney Island
Will this possibly help
Thank You
Also -please read my post on Brooklyn all night service and speak to your bosses about it
Thank You
Was the B74 extension part of the SW Brooklyn Study? The B1/B64 swap was, but I don't remember the B74 extension being in there. In any event, I have put that particular bug in the planners' ears -- doesn't mean anything will happen, though.
I read the hawk proposal and found it interesting. I'll mention it.
David
I forwarded "Barry"'s post to my boss (yes, during the evening). He liked the B2 and B41 ideas. However, the service planners, whose decision it would be to make the modifications "Barry" suggests, are dead set against operating different service patterns on bus routes during the overnights.
David
David,
What are they talking about?
Are they brain dead?
Thank You
David,
Tell these service planners to look at the Q-1 round robin service
Thank You
service planners never ride buses. also they usually live in a different borough than the one they plan for. i learned how Moronic and Totally Assinine nyct was 23 years ago. so sorry sid but i was b/o and sld for a brief time.
so far the crowds are due to kingsborough students getting off trains at brighton beach. i did see #9100 and #9106 along with #4874 and #4772 standing room pass the stop. local or express bus, makes no difference.
Technically, they do have shuttles. They usually run from 25 Av-86 St to Kingsboro Comm. College(look at the schedule) but yes, Ulmer has lost a lot of local buses[1984 GM'S, 1999 RTS(5075-5099)] but since the # of express buses has increased, this is partially to blame.
The buses that operate from 25th Ave/86th Street are not shuttles. They are buses that are pulling out or running off
Thank You
Well, I said "technically" LOL. I know they are coming out of the depot
buses 5075-5099 left Ulmer Park Depot? I guess that explains how come I rode 5076 last week on the B41 from Kings Plz-Flatbush Av. Sta.
And does anyone know what type of engine 5076 has? Cause it didn't sound like the other buses normally do.It sounded almost silent.Or kinda like how the Triboro Coach buses that have the Clean Air Tank on top of the buses sound;the 2000's.
Ok, here's the history of 5075-5124:
1999: debuts at Gun Hill depot
2000 or 2001: 5075-5099 comes to Ulmer Park, 5100-5124 comes to Flatbush when GH gets artics (5200's-5401 or 5402)
2002: 5075-5099 comes to Flatbush when all 1996 RTS's softseaters become local buses
As for the engine, I believe they are Allison ZF 5 speed engines(If I'm wrong correct me)
ZF is a transmission, not an engine, and those buses do indeed have ZF transmissions, which is why they were removed from Ulmer Park (which didn't have any other ZF-equipped buses). The engine on these buses is the standard Detroit Diesel Series 50.
David
Thanks for the correction, David. I knew something didn't sound right
Bx3, Bx6, Bx7, Bx9, Bx11, Bx12, Bx13, Bx15, Bx16, Bx19. Bx20, Bx33, Bx35, Bx36
The Bx9 only goes to the border of the Bronx & Westchester.
The Bx7,9,10 and 16 don't leave the Bronx.They end right at the border between The Bronx and Westchester County but don't cross it.
The Bx7 goes all the way down to NY-Presbyterian Hospital near Washington Heights. The Bx9 technically does not leave The Bronx proper, but because the City Council adjusted the political boundaries of Bronx and New York Counties to have streets in and around Broadway and 225th in New York County, the Bx9 does "leave" The Bronx.
You forgot The Bx16 stop at Sandford Blvd at South 11th Avenue
The Bx10 is not listed, the Bx16 has a stop in Westchester
speaking of inaccuraccies, your listing of the Bx10 doesn't help considering that it wasn't listed
Bx3, Bx6, Bx7, Bx9, Bx11, Bx12, Bx13, Bx15, Bx16, Bx19, Bx20, Bx33, Bx35, Bx36
If this counts
QBx1 (operated by Queens Surface Corp)
and the point is...............?
and how about the 44 and the X32?
The Q-44 and X-32 are considered Queens buses
Thank You
<Thank You >>
No, thank you, for that awesome and intriguing insight.
I am mainly only counting local buses, if express were included, the BXM4C or whatever would be on this list as well
The BxM4C is not a Bronx bus, given that it originates in White Plains. The moniker was probably a DOT result (which DOT, IDK).
What is the purpose of this thread???????
Who knows,probably to enlighten us with his knowledge which is a tad bit inaccurate.
I know right LOL ;-)
Ok, here's something 'interesting' for all you bustalkers, name all the bus routes(including DOT buses) that serve 2 boroughs or in special cases a county & a borough(do not include express buses). I'll show my list later on.
BTW, don't be tempted to look at your maps if you know a lot of them ;-) thanx.
Let me take a shot:
New York County:
M60
*The M35 does not count, since Wards and Randalls Islands are within this jurisdiction.
Bronx County:
Bx3, Bx6, Bx7, Bx9, Bx11, Bx12, Bx13, Bx15, Bx19, Bx20, Bx35, Bx36
Queens County:
QBx1, *Q3, **Q5, *Q6, *Q10, Q24, Q32, Q35, ***Q36, Q44, Q46 LIJ Branch, Q54, Q56, Q60, **Q85
(*JFK Airport is international territory by legal definition)
(**Green Acres Mall is several hundred yards beyond city limits)
(***This route crosses the Cross Island Parkway when the higway is in Nassau County)
Kings County:
B15 (see Q3), B39, B51, B61 (# maybe wrong; the bus that crosses the Newtown Creek)
Richmond County:
S51, S75
I think I got most, if not all of them.
Questions appreciated.
Oh, and for Queens, in keeping with the JFK situaion, the Q48. I think that there are two other routes that fall within this group.
The Q33 and Q47 are the others, I think.
Richmond County is the S53 and S79 not the S51 and S75 doesnt exsist
Wait...the S51 DOES exist, it goes from the St George Ferry Terminal to Staten Island University Hospital or something in SE Richmond County.
Cleanairbus
Bx16 leaves the Bronx as well, look at the bus maps at the TA website and at the bust stops
The Q116 goes into Nassau County as well near Rockaway Beach stops(A/S)
You mean the Q113
yeah I meant Q113
JFK Airport is not in International Territory but is within the City of New York. What you mean is the tax free area which is governed by international law.
There is no special circumstance and jurdistication area in the airports. Both are in Queens County of the City of New York
Thank You
Buses that serve 2 bouroughs? lets see:
Brooklyn Division:
Fresh Pond: Q54, Q55(border line), Q58(border line), Q59, B13, B18(when it was still around), B20, B24, B26(border line), B38, B39, B52(border line), B54(border line), B57.
East New York: B15(to JFK), Q24, Q56.
Jackie Gleason: B51, B61.
Note: All the routes I listed are Brooklyn/Queens routes, except the B39 and B51 which are Brooklyn/Manahttan routes.
Also the border line is represented by Myrtte Av./Wyckoff Av./Palmetto St. which seperates Ridgewood, Queens and Bushwick, Brooklyn.
Ok, here's my list (thanks to everyone who responded)
Brooklyn--> B13(goes through Queens)
B15(Bed Stuy to JFK Airport)
B20(terminates in Queens)
B24(goes through Queens)
B26(barely touches Queens)
B38(both branches terminate in Queens)
B39(Williamsburg to Lower East Side)
B51(Brooklyn to City hall)
B52(barely touches Queens)
B54(barely touches Queens)
B57(goes to 61 St, Queens)
Manhattan--> M60(106 St to Laguardia Airport)
Queens--> Q5(Jamaica to Green Acres)
Q24(Brooklyn to Jamaica)
Q32(Midtown to Jackson Heights)
Q44(Jamaica to the Bronx)
Q46(just touches Nassau)
Q54(Williamsburg to Jamaica)
Q55(just touches Brooklyn)
Q56(B'way Junction to Jamaica)
Q58(just touches Brooklyn)
Q59(Williamsburg to Rego Park)
Q85(Jamaica to Green Acres)
DOT:Q7(Euclid Av to JFK)
Q8 (Euclid Av to Jamaica)
Q35(Midwood to Rockaway Park)
Q60(2 Av, Manhattan to Jamaica)
Q101(2 Av, Manhattan to Ditmars Blvd)
Q101(21 St to Rikers Island(which is considered the Bronx)
Q102(Roosevelt Island to Queens)
Q113(goes through Nassau)
Bronx--> all the 2nd destinations indicates the Manhattan terminal
Bx3(Bronx to 177 St)
Bx6(Bronx to 155 St)
Bx7(Bronx to 168 St)
Bx9(technically since there's a part of Manhattan in the Bronx)
Bx11(Bronx to GW Bus station)
Bx12(Bronx to W 207 St)
Bx13(Bronx to GW Bus station)
Bx15(Bronx to West side via 125 St)
Bx16(has a bus stop in Westchester)
Bx19(Bronx to Riverbank)
Bx20(Bronx to W207 St)
Bx33(Bronx to St Nicholas Av via 135 St)
Bx35(Bronx to GW Bus station)
Bx36(Bronx to 177 St)
Staten Island
S53(Bay Ridge to Port Ruchmond)
S79(Bay Ridge to SI Mall)
In Queens, you forgot the Q36 running on the Nassau County side of Jamaica Av/Jericho Tpke.
You forgot about the B61 which goes from Red Hook to Queens Plaza,LIC.
You forgot two. The Q36 (the southern side of Jamaica Avenue East of Cross Island Pkwy. is Nassau County)
The other is Jamaica Buses Q111. Yes Q111. Buses depart from Parsons at 7:34 am and 2:49 pm and departs from Cedarhurst at 3:10 and 3:48 pm every weekday. This follows the Q111 route to Rosedale, but continues s/b along Francis Lewis Blvd, to Hook Creek Blvd, a left on Dry Harbor Road into Valley Stream, Nassau County, s/b on Mill Rd. to Peninsula Blvd in Hewlett, then w/b on Peninsula Blvd to Rockaway Tpke in Cedarhurst where it terminates.
Check the DOT bus schedule.
ok, The Bx10 is NOT listed here
the Bx7 and Bx9 go into Manhattan(check the Bus Map)
The Bx16 goes into Mount Vernon
Purpose? Just thought I would post this to see if anyone knows all the "boundaries" that some Bx buses actually cross
BTW the Bx16 slightly touches the Yonkers street at the corner of Mclean Avenue(238th Street-Nereid Avenue) and Webster Avenue(Bronx River Road) although it makes no stops so it doesn't really matter.
Oh, now I see.
I have taken a look at several routes schedules in Brooklyn and feel that the TA can make some service improvements on its all night hawk runs
1-Restore 24 hour service on the B-2 by combing it with the B-31 which still operates 24 hours a day. It will work as follows:
To Kings Plaza via E. 16th St,Ave R,Gerritsen Ave(southbound),Gerritsen Beach turnaround,Gerritsen Ave(northbound),Ave R,E. 36th St,Ave S, Flatbush Ave to Kings Plaza
To Kings Highway Station via Flatbush Ave,Ave S,E.36th St,Ave R,Gerritsen Ave(southbound),Gerritsen Beach turnaround,Gerritsen Ave(Northbound),Ave R,Ocean Ave,Quientin Rd and stand at E. 16th St
Estimate trip 26 minuates to Kings Plaza and 27 minuates to Kings Highway (according tto the TA schedules for the B 2 and B 31 routes)
Disadvantage of above- Headway increases to every 60 min. from current B-31 headway of every 30 min.
Advantage-B-2 all night service restored. No additional buses or drivers needed and no extra costs involved
2-Start Round Robin service on the B-41 Flatbush Avenue line
Buses will start at Kings Plaza operate north on Flatbush Ave to Ave N then make right turn on Ave N and proceed to E.71 St turn around and go back to Flatbush Ave via Veterans Ave/Ave N to Flatbush Ave and make right and resume route to Tillary Street.
Buses from Tillary Street will follow current route to E.71 St then turn around and return via Veterans Ave,Ave N to Flatbush Ave and make left turn on Flatbush Ave and proceed to Kings Plaza
Advantage-Headway reduced from 60 min to 30 min on branches,Eliminates current dead heading that is now done on hawk routes (Buses to Kings Plaza deadhead to E 71 St and proceed in service to Tillary St,Buses to E 71 St deadhead to Kings Plazaand proceed in service to Tillary St)
Disadvantages- I do not see any
BTW-A Flatbush Driver who drove a hawk on the B-41 told me that it can be done in less than 55 minuates each way)
Any comments
Thank You
"Disadvantage of above- Headway increases to every 60 min. from current B-31 headway of every 30 min."
The current B31 headway is 40 minutes late nights. Speaking of the 31, I saw in a neighborhood map in a subway station that the 31 uesed to run on Ave U then a right on Gerristen to Gerristen beach.
What was the original route and why was it moved to Ave R.
Any info is appreciated. Thanx.
>"2-Start Round Robin service on the B-41 Flatbush Avenue line
Buses will start at Kings Plaza operate north on Flatbush Ave to Ave N then make right turn on Ave N and proceed to E.71 St turn around and go back to Flatbush Ave via Veterans Ave/Ave N to Flatbush Ave and make right and resume route to Tillary Street.
Buses from Tillary Street will follow current route to E.71 St then turn around and return via Veterans Ave,Ave N to Flatbush Ave and make left turn on Flatbush Ave and proceed to Kings Plaza
Advantage-Headway reduced from 60 min to 30 min on branches,Eliminates current dead heading that is now done on hawk routes (Buses to Kings Plaza deadhead to E 71 St and proceed in service to Tillary St,Buses to E 71 St deadhead to Kings Plazaand proceed in service to Tillary St)
Disadvantages- I do not see any
BTW-A Flatbush Driver who drove a hawk on the B-41 told me that it can be done in less than 55 minuates each way)<"
Its a good idea, i'll be like the Q1 round robin. Yes, it would increase service and would be safer.
But here's one variance, Barry:
Buses from Tillary should go to Kings Plaza then turn right on Av U, left on Veterans Av/Av N, right on Flatbush then normal to Tillary.
Comments. Criticism. Compliments. Holla back.
b31 ran from e 16 st av u brighton station via av u to gerrittsen beach. it used to have problems with double parkers on e. 16 st.
Thanx for the info, Hudson.
The B-31 was also moved to Ave R to give passengers a better subway connection at Kings Highway to both local and express trains while Ave U only had local service
Thank You
During a hawk, the people coming from Tillary would not want to take a trip out to Kings Plaza first, then get dropped near their house at Veteran's ave. Since King's Plaza is closed in the middle of the night, nobody would be heading over there anyway. Going to Veteran's first is the wise choice.
The only problem I see with Barry's idea is it would cause alot of confusion for anybody getting on the E/B B41 bus along ave N. The bus is heading in the same direction regardless of if it's going to Tillary or King's Plaza. Since virtually nobody reads the destination signs, alot of people will start screaming when they see the bus making the opposite turn they want to go when it reaches Flatbush ave.
BIG AL
That could be solved (at least if people read the signs) by an additional reading: "BERGEN BEACH/E 71 ST/VIA KINGS PLAZA".
David
That is 4 screens of signage. People don't read one screen.
Agreed (though it's three screens and not four)...but then why have signage at all?
David
Or back doors?
I thought of that also but I didn't type it. After I thought of it, you're right, the reverse is better. Just get the people to actually read the signs, somehow and there will be no confusion; see the problem can be solved.
Trust me David and Flatbush41, these people wouldn't read the signs if they were handed to them on a silver platter. Even having the destination announced on the "speak easy" device doesn't work with these morons.
BIG AL
I never said it would be easy :-)
David
I know, that's why I said somehow LOL. Also, people see that the buses(for all LTD's) say LIMITED and yet people still ask if it is express and so on[for those of you familiar w/LTD stop buses you'll know what I'm talking about]. Get a damn timetable! It doesn't hurt to ask someone who knows where there going or look at the Guide A Ride but noooo people want to yell at the bus driver in which it is their own fault for missing their stop.
I am a regular on the B2 at all times of day and do not feel service is necessary from 1 to 5AM.
Read the October Transit Authority Committee summary.
It reported that delivery is expected the 4th Quater of 2002 on new Orion VII CNG and Dual Mode buses
Thank You
BTW-No service changes at this time
we are almost 33 percent into the 4th quarter of 2002. this gives orion 2 months to begin delivery. what about new flyer.
The report only mentioned the Orion VII buses.
Approval was only given in August
Thank You
I've been upside down and knee deep in homework, projects, and college social life so i have not been too up to date on what has been happening here recently. anything of note happened lately with WMATA? Aren't the Neoplans supposed to have hit the streets already?
GO TERPS!
No Neopolan news yet, the press releases don't even mention them. Bike racks are still coming in, I believe Southern is next in line to get them. No Orion IIs have the racks yet and none of the MANs are to get them at all.
They mentioned that the MANNs were the only ones not to get the bike racks, on the WMATA website, but it seems that most of the 8700s and the some of the 8800s won't get them either. The reason for the MANNs are obvious,in that they are being replaced one for one by the Neoplans. The most of the 8700s and some of the 8800s are to be replaced in 2003 and 2004 by the next batch of CNGs come in and already alot of the 8700s are currently stored at "The Complex" in Landover, either waiting for retirement or just being stored just in case.
NOOOOO!!! And I had a lot of respect for WMATA when I assumed they were keeping all Flxes in service, unlike most TAs nationwide that are canning theirs for low floors and the like. Well, now that regard is down the toilet with the Biffy Juice!
-F.
Unfortunately about 40 or fifty are in the lot waiting to be retired. The rebuilds might get some but the ones that were never rebuilt won't get them.
That bites. Say, speaking of rebuilds, I stepped onto 8912 a few years ago and there was a black plate up front with white lettering that said it was a rehab of coach no. 195. What gives with that? I thought the 8900s came from the factory with those numbers? What was done to them, and were they in-house rehabs or outsourced?
-F.
Ahh, it actually was always the coach number you were on. The 195 meant that it was the 195th bus to be refurbished.
Oh, I see; that makes sense. The last coach in our 1979 Grumman 870 order was 195, so I found that to be personally intriguing...something in the middle of DC that made me feel right at home. :)
-F.
I know that feeling, hopefully you aren't staying up to about 2 o'clock doing that stuff.
As for WMATA stuff, WMATAGMOAGH got all of it, no Neoplans as of yet. I have been driving past Bladensburg to see if one has come yet, but no. Tomorrow, I have to do a chore at White Flint and I will definetly pass by Montgomery to see if any has arrived yet.
Southeast has started to get bike racks, saw 4223 with one yesterday, and I am unsure if 4330 is now at Southeast or at Four Mile Run still, but this bus has a bike rack and was spotted on a 90 route at Florida Avenue. This bus started its career at Montgomery.
About 80 Arlington garage buses are supposed to start testing the new Smartcard fareboxes around November 12th.
90 is a Southern route. Why would the 90 come from Four Mile Run?
Pictures of the Neopolan Artic for WMATA are now on transitalk.org.
My post must have been written wrong. But 4330 used to run from Four Mile Run, after it was transferred from Montgomery. This same bus was probably transferred from Four Mile Run to Southern/Annex garages. But some of Southern's and Annex's routes have been run from Four Mile Run, just because Southeast's garage is in desperate need of replacement (actually, they have been trying to do it for over ten years now and nothing has come of it). I would say almost half of Southern's buses have been transferred out to Landover, Northern, Montgomery (only 4014 for now), Four Mile Run and to the Annex (which is most of Southern's buses). I think the main problem is finding a site to build it. Early in the 90's they had two sites in mind, one was ruled out because of doing heavy clean up, because of toxic wastes and the other ruled out because it was on U.S. Park land and the U.S. Park Authorities didn't want to give it up. Finally along with possibly 4330, 4331 and 4332 have been transferred out from Montgomery to Southern/Annex.
There will be another battle when the new Arlington division garage is to be built. Right now the current lot is on prime real estate. It really doesn't fit in with the way Ballston has built up these days. I guess they could build the garage under something because I don't think there is any other land in Arlington to build anything like that. Its one of the most densely populated counties in the country as small as it is and as many people that live here. Good luck with that.
I just wanted to go off topic for a moment to say RIP Jam Master Jay. I LOVE Run DMC. So sad to hear he was killed tonight.
Whoa, Run-DMC's dead? Where'd you see that?
C
For those interested:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1458435/20021030/run_dmc.jhtml?headlines=true
Well, I heard it on Channel 4 here in DC, but you can go onto www.mtv.com and they have a story of it as well.
That is sad when I heard it. I still have some RUN DMC Adidas from when I was young. They don't have strings and are too small, but they still in pretty good shape. It sad to hear how he went, another victim of senseless violence. I been hearing people talk about him, and he sounded like a very good friend, and mentor to have. One of my favorites was "You Be Illin". They were also supposed to perform at the Wizard's game tonight.
Rest In Peace Jam Master Jay, you friends and family will miss you, but will never forget your impact on rap and hip hop.
The Wizards did a tribute to him by playing some of RUN DMCs hits, and so have alot of radio stations that play hip hop and rap.
I saw and heard a lot of that tonight. I know MTV ran a lot of their music and WPGC was playing a lot today.
i got a photo of one of wmata's neoplans at a bus show, 5301. It already has a bike rack on it, though it doesnt look as great as i thought it was look.
oops, i'm kinda late. didnt see that post. lol
You must go to U of Md. My son teaches there part time and is Asst. Dir of the College Park scholars program. He has no interest in mass transit and thinks his old man (me) is weird (only kidding) for liking it. GO TERPS!
If you ever run into Jeff Greene, that's him.
Chuck Greene
The good old days at Univ. of MD. I graduated there in 1994. It was great driving the buses there too.
That's right, I remember reading your posts about some of the junkers they had, like the Thomas busses.
Chuck Greene
LOL, yeah, luckily, I drove mainly Flxibles.
Those are my favorite ones there. Red and white 30-footers, right?
-F.
Exactly, and two 40' red and white ones as well. U of M had a total of 18 30' and 2 40' Flxibles.
I wonder if they are still running there, and what became of them?
-F.
As far as I know they are all still on the road. The oldest Flx is from 1986 and the newest ones are from 1991. I've seen them around when I go out there once in awhile.
Don't you mean 1994 or 95? I have rode on 9813, which is a 94 Metro E.
-F.
Oh, sorry, I meant Shuttle UM's Flxs.
I saw the new NEOPLAN. It looks suspiciously like the SEPTA models. Does it have the Series 50 engines like SEPTA's, or does it have the Series 60 like the Bee-Line Neos?
BTW- what engines power the NJT Neos?
I am wondering the same question too.
Will WMATA's Neos replace the current MAN SG310? Or just and expansion of fleet?
BTW, what engine and tranny do WMATA's NABI artics have?
Stephen
The Neoplans are supposed to replace the MANNs one-for-one. It seems like they will be arriving soon, because WMATA has already retired some of the MANNs. About six are awaiting disposal at Landover. There probably about ten MANNs left running, it seems only from Bladensburg. As for engines, my guess would be the ISM, don't know too much about trannys. Of WMATA's artic purchases, they have yet to purchase ones with DD series engines.
When these buses are delivered, WMATA might put on their website, the engine and trannies and other information.
As I was driving home today, I was driving parallel to WMATA 9766 when this fool in a blue car pulled right in front of him, the driver honked his horn at the fool and this creeton kept going, THAT BUS NEARLY REAR ENDED HIM.
I remember one time when this woman ran into the back of a Gillig, when they were running from Bladensburg. The bus was not damaged, but the car couldn't move she had to wait for a tow truck. I would have laughed and probably did. Are there anymore instances where a car disrespected a bus and the bus somehow won?
Who knows. This morning, there was one car which was driving really slowly in front of the 37 so that the driver could pick someone up along Tuckerman Lane without having to turn into the side street to wait...
I always make a point to yield to other vehicles if they want to change lanes and merge, especially Metrobuses.
Being the fan of transit that I am, I like you, yield to busses. They are on a tighter schedule than i am!
Chuck Greene
The other day, a lady was not looking where she was going and tore up one of our new Gilligs. Everyone on board of each vehicle was alright, but the right front corner of the coach got it real bad, and the whole front bumper was nearly pushed off the bus. Idiots!
-F.
I was waiting at 179th Place in Queens for the express bus to Belmont Park. There was snow on the ground from the day before. A gypsy cab pulled into the bus stop right in front of an approaching express bus! So the bus driver creeped up behind him and when he STILL wouldn't move, he used his bus to PUSH the car out the way. No words were exchanged, he got the point and left.
A few times I have waited in the late evenings for the Q10 bus at Union Turnpike to take me home. There is something there that always happens there probably at other places where there are gypsy cabs. For most of the time you're waiting for the bus the cars will be nowhere in sight. Then about 5-10 minutes before the bus is due the cars will come out of everywhere trying to get your business. There was one driver that needed one more person to have a full cab. He waited and waited. Then the bus came in a few minutes early. Everybody left the cab for the bus. The driver was yelling at the people who left the cab and at the driver for arriving.
Just saw this commercial the other night for the PT Cruiser; in the background of the car shown is a large, sloping hill with a Gillig Phantom descending. Judging by car's "retro custom" appeal, the bus make, and the grade it is embarking, I would say this was filmed somewhere in California. Anyone seen it yet?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Most people never realize how much transit equipment is actually used in all types of motion picture production There is companies here in California that specialize in nothing but UPS trucks or Cabs and police cars. Its a great business to be in. I have been fortunate to have survived it for almost 15 years. Check out the "appearences" page on my website for a list of credits that my buses have appeared in.
www.regionaltransitservice.com
Will do; thanks for the info! I love finding a bus on screen, whether it be at a cinema, on TV, or on a computer. :)
-F.
Couldn't remember the car's name, but did see the commercial and the bus.
I know this is grossly off-topic, but some time ago, we have mentioned Pepsi Blue casually in posts, and the general concensus was that we mostly liked it; personally, I love the stuff.
Initially, it was marketed in 20 oz. and 1-liter bottles; I assumed this was to make it a "trial size only" offering to see how the public would take to the new product. This past week, I was surprised to see that it is now offered in 2-liters and 12-pack cans as well, making it full-circle offering. I'm not sure how it is offered in NY or other areas, but this is in Southwest Virginia.
I feared for its future, but judging from the above, I assume Pepsi Blue is here to stay. Time for me to celebrate with a Baltimore Flx!
-F.
Here in NYC, Pepsi Blue is sold in 2-litters. In fact I already have one in my kitchen cabinet :)
20-ouncers are here in NJ convenience stores and newsstamds.... bought one yesterday - better than Vanilla Coke anyway
I agree; Vanilla Coke sucks. I had MUCH higher hopes for that stuff. And Red Fusion Dr. Pepper doesn't knock me out either.
-F.
Tried both, not really a fan of Vanilla Coke and I believe that Red Fusion is excactly like regular Dr. Pepper.
When I tried it, the Red Fusion was really bland and tasted watered-down. Ugh.
-F.
Hot dog! Keep on buying 'em, and they'll keep on making 'em! If only that was the case for Flxible buses. Oh well. :(
-F.
Hey, maybe we should have a social board for us bustalkers, so that we can talk about more things outside of transit.
Hey, not a bad idea! What do you think, folks? Perhaps an "Et Cetera" link on the present site?
-F.
Having worked for airlines, I can honestly say that Pepsi Blue LOOKS and SMELLS like "Biffy Juice".
"Biffy Juice", you ask? That's the blue stuff put into the crappers on airliners....and buses....and trains.
"Biffy Juice", eh? Remind me not to use that as a marinade for steaks; I might end up with Biff Wellington. :)
-F.
Why doe we even have this crap here??
j/k, but really, we must resort to this to get around? Besides, Vanilla Coke is SOO much better!
It's now in the 2 liter and the 12 pack. Aw crap, me needs to gets me to a store and get some. Along with Code Red Mountain Dew and Mello Yellow, those are my favorite sodas.
I only saw the 20 oz Bottles here in NYC. I have not saw the 12 oz cans and the 2 Liter Bottles of Pepsi Blue yet. I wish the Soda Vending Machine in my school would sell Pepsi Blue in 20 Oz or 12 Oz.
No store in NYC sells Mello Yellow but I had in a few times when I where down in Florada. It's pretty good.
Vinalla Coke I like also. Taste like Root Beer!
I love Dr Pepper! OMG! I can't stop asking for it every time I go to Wendys down the block from me. Tastes Verry Good.
Before My School got the Soda Vending Machine and nearly converted the whole cafe in my school into all Machines. The school selled Alot of Sodas,Like Pepsi,Diet Pepsi,Mug Root Beer,Montain Dew,Brisk Iced Tea, and some more.
And also this was where I find the new sodas 1st before I see it in the store down the block. Like when Pepsi One,Brisk Lemonade,Pepsi Twist,Diet Pepsi Twist,and Red Montain Dew.
Nowadays at my school. It's verry limted amont of drinks now so if you don't have the drink you want to drink you have to eather chose to get something else or Go across the steet to the Deli where they have Loads of Drinks to Select From
Hello.To all you bus talkers. I also love pepsi blue.I always have one with when iam on the road. Long live pepsi blue!!!!!!....john QSC
This has NOTHING to do with buses. It doesn't make sense to even start a thread on SODA on a discussion board about buses :-\
That's really too bad, that stuff sucks, they took Crystal Pepsi that they've had since the early ninties and crushed a few 1000 Flushes toilet tabs into it, a bit of Raspberry and other fruit tequila mix, and they had a marketable drink to hit at Coke's latest offering.
You people make me sick, you cry when some bus and or subway car that is more a hazard to it's riders than of any historical value is scrapped, yet some damn marketing exec can steer you away from something much larger than any subway system in the world, the two very beverages that basically define who america is.
Hehe, just kidding about that last part, just wanted to see some reactions, I do find it amazingly Ironic that died-in-wool RTS, Flxible, or even Redbird fans would be so fickle over something like a soft drink. Perhaps I'm the exception here, I've drunk nothing cept Coke classic (The Redcan, perhaps?) since I was like seven (I resent Pepsi's blatant and often crude attempts to win over my generation through just amazingly stupid ads that equate me and my peers to chimps) but I often look forward to the new equipment on a system, the Neoplan Artics, the D40LFs, the M-4s, and the R-142s, I welcomed all of them as a chance to get away from the 'old stuff'.
BTW, I have tried neither of the latest beverage offerings, for now I am content to spend my buck on a classic coke, to me the whole thing is just like Coke II and Crystal Pepsi a decade ago, or even the Burger King/McD's French Fry thing a few years back, changing stupid, superflous things to eek out just a bit more business from the competition.
Come down to Philly and see me, I'll be the kid with the Blue coat, Coke 20 oz in the lefthand, hunched over schlepping some inordinately heavy load of books somewhere between the 16th, 15th and Locust PATCO station, and Drexel university's Univerisity City campus. Or maybe if the weather keeps getting worse, on some 42,9,or 31 bus headed for 16th st.
Thanks
Check it out:
www.transitalk.org/Main.html
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Awesome pictures! I can't wait to see those Neoplans rolling here. Very nice. I only wish WMATA ordered more than 21.
Me too. Those are needed on more routes and that includes routes running from Four Mile Run that will unfortunately be overrun by probably all 40' CNGs. As discussed in other posts, the 16, 7 and maybe the 23 need them.
Yeah, at least the CNG's look good though. It will be nice to have a little variety in the system with the Neo's. Those Van Hool's are cool. I wonder how they are to drive?
Nice Buses! I love those Van Hools! Only if I see the MTA or NYCDOT order any Van Hool Buses in NYC would be cool. Even the Van Hool Cutaway looks cool too.
I never knew they have a Orion VII 30 Foot too. It looks Good as a 30 Foot Bus. MTA should order 30 Foot Orion VII's.
idk what to say about the AVS Buses.
The Blue Birds. Getting there. The LTC 45 Looks like a Stupid Looking Neoplan MetroLiner. That new Low Floor Bus Looks a bit like part D40i,Part SLF 235.
Chance. Nice Looking bus they made there.
ElDorado. Nice Paint job on the EZRider Low Floor.idk why 2 Wheelchair Ramps for 1 Bus? Don't make sence to have 2. The new 40 Foot Low Floor looks neat.
Gillig. Not much to say but I surprise there's a such thing as a Hybrid Gillig Low Floor. WOW!
Neoplan. The WMATA Paint job looks verry nice on a Neoplan. I would love to see 1 in a MTA Paint Job.(Green Lines paint job would be better)
NABI. I love the 45 LFW and 60 LFW. Looks verry cool. Also would want to see a complany here to get a NABI
Those Eldorado 40-footers look like a Transmark on steroids!
Trying to picture the NABI 40' CNG bus in Boston MBTA colors.
Interesting that Orion and Thomas are both building 30-foot and 35-foot buses. I'm glad that Orion will continue to offer a 30-foot heavy-duty transit bus - I believe that many of the 30-footers in the market just cannot withstand the rigors of big city transit service.
Jim D.
Those were simply awesome. I cannot wait to ride them on the Z routes as well as along E-W Hwy on the J2. I also think the NJT bus has one of the best paint schemes I've ever seen.
Wayne
The Z routes don't operate artics. I thought the artics only ran on the Js, Q2, Ys, Ss, and 70 and 71.
Actually, some of the Z routes do. About a month ago, I saw one operating on the Z17 and another on another Z route, couldn't remember which one. That is why I am surprised that WMATA didn't buy more artics.
your right, i rode either Z11 or Z13 in july on a NABI artic.
Thanks for getting me to remember that it was also the Z11 that had an artic on it. I couldn't remember the other route I saw it one. It is odd not to see artics on the J2 or the Q2, except for one here and there. I have been seeing mostly 40 footers on these routes. I don't know why WMATA didn't order more artics ( have I been saying this too much?) . By my observations though of the people on the Z11 and the Z17, they do need artics on these two routes.
can one of you guys tell me the letter codes for the DC buses? Are they anything like MTA's[B,Bx,Q,M,S,and X]for boro of operation?
WMATA's letter coding seems to work based on what street/road/avenue/boulevard it serves.
Example:
Q Line - Montgomery County's Viers Mill Road
Y Line - Montgomery County's Georgia Avenue
C Line - Montgomery County-Prince Georges County Crosstown
J Line - Montgomery County's East West Highway
70s Line - DC's Georgia Avenue
S Line - DC's 16th Street
Z Line - US Route 29 Line
and so forth
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Excluding the ex-WMA lines, here are the WMATA Number/Letter Codes
DC Transit/WVM/ABW lines:
A - MLK Ave-SE DC-S. Capitol St
B - Bladensburg Rd - Mt Rainier
C - University Blvd - Montgomery-Prince Georges Cross County
D - Mac Arthur Blvd - Glover Park - K St NW
E - Military Rd - Kennedy St Crosstown
F - Prince Georges Cross-County
G - Rhode Island Ave - P St
H - Columbia Rd - Michigan Ave - Porter St Crosstown
J - East-West Hwy - Montgomery Mall
K - New Hampshire Ave
L - Connecticut Ave
M - Spread out over various lines in DC - no particular area in the
District
N - Massachusetts Ave
P - Spread out over various lines in DC
Q - Viers Mill Rd - Georgia Ave
R - Michigan Ave - Riggs Rd
S - 16th St
T - River Rd (also Rockville Pk-Old Georgetown Rd before Ride-On take-
over)
U - Benning Rd Far NE-SE
V - M St SE - Minnesota Ave
W - Alabama Ave Crosstown (Also SE Shuttles)
X - H St NW-NE
Y - Georgia Ave-Maryland
Z - Colesville Rd - Columbia Pk (Md)
1 - Wilson Blvd-Arlington Blvd
2 - Washington Blvd-Lee Hwy-Vienna-Oakton
3 - Lee Hwy-Tysons Corner
4 - Arlington Blvd-Pershing Dr
5 - Tysons Corner-Reston-Herndon-Dulles Airport
6 - not used
7 - Beauregard St-Alexandria-Fairlington
8 - Quaker Lane Express
9 - Jeff Davis Hwy - Richmond Hwy (US 1) - Ft Belvior
10 - Mt Vernon Ave - Arlington Ridge Rd - Walter Reed Dr - Glebe Rd
11 - George Washington Pkwy - (Old 11's via Duke St, Rose Hill,
Franconia-Springfield)- Mt Vernon
12 - Centerville
13 - Pentagon-DC loop
14 - Smart Mover
15 - Chain Bridge Rd
16 - Columbia Pike (VA)
17 - Braddock Rd - Burke - Kings Park
18 - Springfield - Keene Mill Rd
19 - not used
20 - Fairfax - Chantilly - US 50
21 - Landmark Express
22 - Military Rd (VA)- George Mason Dr - Army-Navy Dr.
23 - Glebe Rd - Chain Bridge Rd
24 - Washington Blvd - Pentagon
25 - Army-Navy Dr - NVCC - Bradlee - Ballston - Landmark
26 - not used
27 - not used
28 - King St - Leesburg Pk - Alexandria - Tysons Corner - Skyline City
29 - Duke St - Little River Tpke. - Annandale - Fairfax - Alexandria
30-36 Pennsylvania Ave- M St- Wisconsin Ave
38 - Ballston-Farragut Sq
40's - Mt Pleasant - Downtown
50's - 14 th St
60's - Sherman Ave/11th st - Takoma - Ft Totten
70's - Georgia Ave-7th st
80 - North Capitol St - Ft Totten
81,82,83 - Rhode Island Ave- Maryland
84,85 - Edmonston Ave-New Carrolton
86 - College Park-Beltsville
87,88,89 - Laurel
90-95 - U St - Florida Ave - Garfield - Stanton Rd Crosstown
96,97 - U st -Union Station - East Capitol St - Capitol Heights
98 - Adams-Morgan Shuttle
Now here are the Ex-WMA lines:
A - Martin Luther King Hwy
B - Lanham-Severn Rd - Annapolis Rd- Bowie
C - Hillcrest Heights, Marlow Heights, Clinton, Southern Maryland
Bowie - Largo - Central Ave
D - Camp Springs - Branch Ave - Allentown Rd
F - Ardwick-Ardmore, New Carrollton-Bradbury Heights-Glenarden
H - Marlow Heights - Temple Hills
J - Marlboro Pike
K - Forestville-Andrews Airforce Base
N - Branch Ave- King St Via Beltway
P - Oxon Hill-Silver Hill Rd-Cross County-Indian Head Hwy-Ft Washingtn
R - Kenilworth Ave
T - Annapolis Rd - Greenbelt Rd
V - District Heights
W - Ft Washington-Piscataway-Camp Springs
In an addendum, here is some further info on WMATA`s Routing scheme:
Odd numbers (1,3,5, etc) tend to be Rush Hour routes. Sometimes they are weekday only all day routes. (A1, D3, V5)
Even numbers tend to be base routes (Middays, Evenings, Weekend) (G2, L4)
On VA lines (1 to 29, 38) The first 5 or 6 letters (A to F) of the alphabet tend to be Base Routes. (Ex. 1A, 7F, ). Other letters (G to Z), tend to be Rush Hour Routes. But there many exceptions to this rule.
In series routes (30's to 70`s, and 90's) Even numbers are full-time routes, odd numbers are part-time routes. (Rush Hours, Owl).(30, 35)
80 routes in Md. tend to follow their own rules. (81 to 89)
Are you referring to the run blocks or the route numbers? For clarity's sake, I'll answer both as best as I can.
For those not familiar with WMATA, run blocks are set up as follows (this is a sample block; I couldn't tell you if it really exists or not):
"LB31"
The first letter is the garage code; in this case "L" stands for Landover garage (I don't have all of the WMATA garage codes committed to memory; I know that "F" is for 4 Mile Run garage, "M" is for Montgomery, "W" is for Western, and "B" is for Bladensburg - I'm hoping our WMATA regulars can fill in the gaps). The second character is what line series the bus is operating on; in this case, it's one of the B-series routes in Prince Georges. The last two digits are the run number within that series.
As for the route numbers, generally, numbered routes without letters (usually 30 and up) operate predominately within in DC, though the 70s operate into parts of Maryland; the key exception are the 80-series lines which, IIRC, used to operate direct service from Laurel and College Park into Downtown DC, but were cut-back once the Green Line Metro was completed. Generally, a number/letter combo (7H) indicates a Virginia line, while letter/number combos (such as X2 or D4) are either DC only routes or routes which operate into or within Maryland.
I'm hard pressed to explain the logic behind the numbering, but many WMATA Metrobus lines retained their route numbers from their predecessor companies (DC Transit for example).
Again, I'm sure our DC area correspondents can answer your questions better than I can.
You got the gist of it. The numbers did originate from the privates before WMATA bought them out. The route lines are grouped by letter or number.
E-Military Road Crosstown
30-Pennsylvannia/Wisconsin Avenues
L-Connecticut Avenue
T-Western Montgomery County
J-Cross-county routes
14-SmartMover
16-Columbia Pike
N-Massachusetts Avenue
70-Georgia Avenue (DC)
60-13th Street
S-14th Street
Y-Georgia Avenue (MD)
Z-Route 29 (MD)
Q-Viers Mill Road
And so on...
I can make a stab at getting all the depot blocks down:
W-Western
M-Montgomery
N-Northern
B-Bladensburg
S-Southern
F-Four Mile Run
R-Royal
L-Landover
I am missing one garage, sorry.
Interestingly enough, I don't know if the run still exists, but WE41 or WE01, I can't remember which, ran a trip on the 30 from Potomac Avenue to Friendship Heights getting to Friendship at about 3:30 before going out of service. I should add that the second part of the block goes for where the bus starts its run. In this case, the bus started on the E routes before doing the 30 trip.
The other garage is A=Arlington
I've always wished WMATA could institute a numbering scheme such as M=Maryland routes, D=DC, V=VA. For those that cross states or go into DC, vice versa, the numbering could still be done by basing it on where it serves most, or the garage that it originates from. For example, the 38B goes from VA to DC, but comes out of a VA garage and could have a V designation. Its too impossible to do any of this now as Metrobus has been around for almost 30 years.
Nice article ( I say this sarcasticly) in the Washington Post today raking WMATA over the coals for the poor bus stop information they have. The bus stop shown on the inside page of the Metro section is actually the stop I catch the 1C from at my office. I know that rusty old pole very well!
I knew it was Arlington or Ballston, I just wasn't sure what the designation was.
Some of the T2 stops on River Road are pretty bad. Even though they have new signs, they are no fun to wait at. Neither is my 37 stop for the few times I actually do take it to Grosvenor, although that is Ride-On.
they should make this simpler..... it could be very confusing to an out of towner or new resident...or even a browser like myself to understand the numbering system there... ON VISITS,I'll stick with the Metro rail.....
Yes they definitely do operate on Z routes. I've seen them (both NABI & MAN) plenty of times on the Z17 and Z11.
Wayne
What a great set of pic's you have on TT Trevor.
John E Pappas has got you a bit of an exclusive with them.
Its very hard to make bus look anything but square BUT looking at the latest offerings they are getting some style into the design's now.
Its also clear to see by whats on offer that Low Floor is the future.
Trevor, long time no see! How have you been?
Can't wait to ride that Neoplan, by the looks of things they should be coming soon, went by Bladensburg hoping one was there,but was not, did see Antique Bus 1912, the GM Old Look.
I also liked the NABI buses, they look sweet, and so does the El Dorado. The Van Hool on the other hand, err, they should try again, I don't like it.
That would explain why I haven't seen 2460-64. How long ago was this expo. I have seen just about all of them but not these four. Prince George's County has a Thomas SLF 35', rode it and took a pic a couple of weeks ago. They are by far the best buses "The Bus" has, with the Gilligs coming a distant second.
I realized something else. It looks like 2460-2463 (I mistakenly put 64 in my last post) will be powered by John Deere engines, and that would be the other reason why I haven't seen them in service yet. Need to ride those. Not usual to have WMATA have buses powered by two types of engines for a single bus purchase. The 8700s-8900s have all of the 8700s and 8800s powered by Detroit Diesel 6V92 along with 8900-8925 and 8950-8970, but 8971-8975 have Cummins L10 engines. The same with the 9200s with 9201-9239 and 9276-9289 have DD 6V92s and 9251-9275 have Cummins L10.
Wasn't El Dorado supposed to team up with MANN and build a 40' bus a couple of years ago. I read an article about the supposid team up. It probably went to pott since MANN was bought out, and by the way who bought them out, I heard it somewhere, but forgot who it was?
Great shots...and wait 'til you see the gorgeous all-new 40' El Dorado Axxess.
That's right...a 40' heavy-duty low-floor transit bus from the "EZ-Rider" folks at El Dorado!
And let's not forget the exquisite new 45' NABI Compobus for Phoenix. If she doesn't make the case for 45' low-floor transit buses, noting else will.
Beautiful buses, beautiful photos.
Thanks to Trevor and Pappas,
The photos are nice. Any clue what engine and tranmission will be on the NJT and WMATA Neoplan AN460?
I guess they would be like Bee-Line using Series 60 and B500...Hope there is another combination except ISM/B500, which Muni has.....
Stephen
The NJT Neos will have a Cat diesel engine and ZF transmission; IIRC, the WMATA Neos will have the SEPTA powertrain (DDC 50/B500R).
i hope the wmata artics. don't have the slow DDC50 like the one septa has.
rideon's DDC50 are incredibly slow also. or perhaps it's the voith tranny.
I think Series 50 is a good engine. Those made between 1995-1997 tend to more more noisy than the newer ones, at least that is true for Gilligs.
Stephen
They didn't get any quieter in buses delivered in 200 and 2001 from New Flyer.....
Is Yukon experiencing any shortages of MCIs due to repairs or break-downs, etc?????
This morning, I counted at least 4 Orion Suburbans from Yukon on the Gowanus deadheading back to SI.
Couldn't catch the numbers, but would probably be 121, 127, 131 and whatever else that they have.
This morning, saw more Orions, and I caught the number of one being 124.
With the Bridge being shut down Sunday with the Marathon, what will be the detours??
Routes Affected S53,S79,X1,X10
Here are my ASSUMPTIONS
For the S53 and S79, I would assume they would terminate before the bridge while closed.
For X1, normal to Narrows and Hylan, Left Narrows North, straight to Clove Road entrance to SI Expressway via NJ via Lincoln Tunnel, DOING A REVERSE ROUTE in NYC, stopping first in Midtown, then working downtown. Return to SI via 6th Ave to 57th, left to 9th Ave, south to Lincoln Tunnel via NJ - exit Clove Road exit, right hylan at Narrows South.
For X10, when entering at Slosson, go to and from via NJ. Would do the reverse route like the X1 as mentioned above.
Someone had mentioned this before and I believe it was "Orion V 93087" (got that from the Bus Archives) but I just want to add on to it. I saw a MTA Long Island Bus passing by Southampton College! It looked like it came out of the Gym or a side street but it was going east into Southampton. I did not get the number nor the engine but it was weird seeing it out there. BTW, it was not a LIRR shuttle...the trains were running.
This was a LIRR shuttle - the buses substitute for the trains middays.
This was not a shuttle. This was on the Montauk Branch and the trains were running on time. The bus I saw was at 2:00 (17 minutes after the train to Montauk passed) so it could not have been a shuttle. Thanks for your input anyway.
The LIRR was doing track work on the Montauk Branch and passengers were required to change from train to bus out east.
What you may have seem was a bus deadheading back to the depot after their run was completed for the day
Thank You
Too bad they can't put these LI Buses in revenue service from Nassau.
Probably be quicker than LIRR.
Ah yes John, another brilliant idea. Put them into revenue service from for a few weeks and then take them away. Cause mass confusion for the riders.And I'm sure you'd also want only the buses with the 6V92 engines, perhaps driven by beautiful Oriental women who eat only at Wendy's.
Well, true Barry but is a problem with the fact that the bus was not going back to the depot....it was going east towards Montauk.
Thank You.
Oh yes, we do have a daily route to Montauk, with a one-way schedule time of about 2-1/2 hours.
What kind of route? Please explain. Is it on the MTA LI Bus website?
There are regular bus substitutions on that branch, if you look at the schedule you will see certain trains require bus substitutions.
Also, buses also substitute on LIRR when there is a disruption as well.
Thanks again, QTraindash7
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong. I work for LI Bus. The bus schedules are at different times than those of the train. New ones were posted today.
Well, I'll just tell you that I'm certain that this was no LIRR shuttle service. That is a fact.
How do you know? Did you stop the driver and ask? Did you call the company and ask? Did you follow the bus? Have you seen the LI Bus/LIRR company schedules schedules? Perhaps he was deadheading. Sometimes we make an express trip one way, for instance, and then deadhead the return. I work for LI Bus and that is the way we do it. If you don't know for 100% sure, it's best not to say or challenge anything. To do so makes one look foolish, in my opinion. Shades of another QTrainDash7......
First, let's get on thing straight.....
I am not no DAMN QTRAINDASH7! Don't even try to compare me to him!
Second, I was not trying to challenge nobody! Yes, you work for LI Bus BUT I was not trying to challenge you! BTW, the bus went into Southampton, not west into Nassau County. But if you are trying to tell me that that was a LIRR Shuttle bus then yes I will challenge you because the trains are running! I have the NEW LIRR Montauk Branch schedule and it's running! I take the train as well as my mother everyday. Today and yesterday on time. Direct me to the Bus schedule that you are refferring to and I'll check that out.
I did not say the trains were not running. I said we were providing a shuttle service. This operates midday only. During this period, the LIRR is working on its tracks. Why else do you think our buses are out there? Yes, you and your mom may have been on the train out there, but does that 100% mean that there are no buses substituting for trains at certain periods? I suggest that you think before you speak, especially since I do know exactly what's going on. If I didn't, I certainly would have the common sense to say what I did. It's not my practice to say anything before I'm reasonably sure of it; I don't wish to look like a fool, like other people may.
Okay, I'll buy that but please explain yourself when talking about these shuttles. Obviously, I did not know about it. Can you shead some light on it, please?
This is what the MTA web site says,
I am assuming this is also going on right now, with a few trains.
LIRR Substitutes Buses for Weekend, Overnight Train Service on Montauk Branch November 9 & 10
The MTA Long Island Rail Road will substitute bus service for overnight and early-morning weekend train service on the Montauk Branch between Patchogue and Montauk November 9 & 10 as grade crossing renewal work is performed at William Floyd Parkway. The work – which includes the installation of new concrete ties, rails and concrete panels to replace the existing wooden ties, rail and rubberized panels – is scheduled to begin at 10:30 PM Saturday, November 9 and extend through 8:30 AM Sunday, November 10. During that period train service is replaced by bus service as detailed below:
Eastbound
The 11:28 PM train from Babylon, and the 11:30 PM and 1:03 AM trains from Jamaica will all terminate at Patchogue. Buses will be available at Patchogue for the remainder of the trip.
Westbound
The 5:34 AM and 6:59 AM trains from Speonk, and the 6:45 AM train from Montauk will all originate at Patchogue. Customers at stations Montauk through Bellport will receive bus service to Babylon where train connections will be available for the remainder of the trip.
Customer should allow for 30-to-60 minutes additional travel time.
Thanks Qtraindash7!
Does anybody know what engine do MCPS's later model thomases have? (school busses) these are 1997+ thomas REs.
While I was watching one of the Spanish Channels, I saw a piece on Jennifer Lopez and her boyfriend, what's his name. I couldn't understand what they were saying, because I have the spanish speaking skills of a Frenchman, but wasn't really listening to what they were saying, more concentrating on 1)Jennifer Lopez and the short skirt she was wearing (love women in short skirts, shows off their legs), especially the rear shot of her, and 2)the New Flyer CNG bus that they were walking next to. It was a LACMTA New Flyer C40LF, couldn't get the number though and it was pulling off, about to go through a traffic light as she was walking it. Man I love me some Jennifer Lopez (even though she can't sing), and MAN I love me some bus.