Some of those who visit Washington or have lived here a short while, might have seen the 9800s on the road and thought nothing of it, but there would have been more buses with this group if someone hadn't been an a** and just paid for their share.
When WMATA was ordering buses to be delivered in 1994, the obvious choice was Flxible, it had been since 1986, with an order for Gilligs and Orions sprinkled in. This order was supposed to be for 110 buses, most likely either 9801-9910 or 9800-9909. With WMATA's bus purchases, D.C. Virginia and Maryland usually pay their share of a bus purchase and this was supposed to be the same. D.C. at this time, had serious financial problems and couldn't pay their share, but
Virginia and Maryland would pay their share right? Ah no. Virginia did, but the braintrusts at the Maryland Department of Transportation (they pay both Montgomery and Prince George's County share of WMATA's annual payment and for any bus purchases), decided if D.C. didn't pay why should we. I guess Maryland was so serious to alliviate traffic that they didn't pay for their share of these buses. When 1994 came around (actually President's Day) the buses hit the road, the ones only Virginia paid for hit the streets, IN D.C. AND MONTGOMERY, when neither D.C. or Maryland paid for these buses, but Virginia did. It is amazing that D.C. paid for the Gilligs, but none of them say a day in Maryland or Virginia, the Neoplans did the same, and so did the first group of MANNs (5000s) but the 9800s, paid for by only Virginia didn't all run in Virginia. The GM New Looks 1000s and 1100s did run practically ran mostly all of their lives in Virginia before some were
sent to Montgomery and Bladnesburg. I also have to add the 8300s also spent all of their lives in D.C. I didn't mention the Orion IIs, because who would want these buses anyway . But the point of the whole story is if you were the only one to pay for the buses, ONLY YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING THEM AND NOONE ELSE!!
There were some interesting bus observations and one last night and here they are:
2071: On a 16S, a possible ex-Bladensburg bus (not sure if this bus has officially left Bladensburg for good)
9603: On a P6. This not all unusal, because I have seen alot of Four Mile Run buses on Southeast routes, since Southeast is close to an oblivion
4377: On a P17 (Annex route). Some of Bladensburg's 4300s, went to Montgomery and some went to the Annex which puzzles me, in that also, Montgomery buses 4331 and 4332 also went to the Annex and it seems that Bladenesburg's 4300s were mixed up and sent to Montgomery and the Annex.
9268 and 4077: Both sport bike racks. I think someone mentioned one of these buses before.
I also saw PRTC MCI 332 with "GO REDSKINS WIN" on its front destination sign. This must have been a driver preference and not a bus that was used on the Redskin shuttle, because only WMATA buses are used on the Redskin routes. Another note on the PRTC destination signs in that the back ones can fit whole words in them in that one had WASHINGTON at the top and D.C. at the bottom. They also have two line side destination signs, like Ride On has on its 2001-2002 Orions. I like these signs, but not as much as the Balios signs. It would have been nice to see the two line side signs on the New Flyers instead of the ones they have. Segway. Speaking of New Flyers, they were running on the Redskin shuttle the night before along with the regular NABI & MANN double buses and some Flxible 9700s and 9300-9400s.
9721 has a rack (Metro-D from Montgomery) on Monday the 26th. I saw it on the L8 at Friendship Heights but since I was en route to National Airport, I didn't stop to take a picture. The bus racks are unavailable to passengers until September 14 (date of BikeDC by coincidence) due to driver training. I hope they are used, the Ride-On ones are hardly ever unfolded. On the other hand, Palm Springs, CA bus bike racks seemed to be used quit eoften.
Orion VI 2099 is down at Four Mile Run, too. Its been there for quite awhile. I think that was an ex Bladensburg bus, too.
I didn't realize Four Mile Run buses ran some SE routes. It is just a quick trip on 395/295 to get over there.
I remember in past years seeing a lot of buses sporting "Redskins Will Win Today" on game day. Its kind of fun to see that. There used to be a Flx Metro B that ran around with a sign on the top saying they won the Super Bowl, but this was over 10 years ago. A couple of New Looks used to have that too and up till the end of its existence, 8563 in the late 90's, it was still congratulating the 'Skins from winning Superbowl 17!
I do miss the old cardboard signs that used to be on the sides of the buses in the frames. I was on 8584 years ago on the C2, and we were flying down University Blvd. and the left side ad came loose from the frame, flipped up so that it was now standing vertically against the bus instead of horizontal and then just flew off into someone's yard. I'm sure whoever lived there loved finding that. Luckily, it didn't fly off and blind another motorist.
It is bad when the Redskins lose and they still have those "Redskins Will Win Today" on those buses. I remember 8563 rolling up 395 and seeing that banner. The cardboard signs were better than the plaster specials, because when those plasters come off so do some of the paint. I don't think you had that problem with those cardboard.
It is a rarety to see a Four Mile Run bus on a Southeast bus, but since Southeast has gotten rid of most of their buses, they have to use other garages, notably Annex and Four Mile Run along with whatever buses they have left at Southeast. I know Four Mile Run has ex-Southeast buses 4064-4070, 9230-9239 and Landover has 9454-9457. 2099 was originally part of 2082-2099, running from Southeast, but were transferred to Bladensburg about over a year ago, but they still mainly run on Southeast routes but run also on Bladensburg routes.
Which route had the first rts nova?
Which route in the New York area is the oldest?
1-b17.
2-5th Avenue in Manhattan(M1 or M2 i think).
If anyone has any information on WMATA Metrobus route depot assignment, please post it up on bustalk.
I highly doubt anyone outside WMATA knows the exact details. I don't get around to all areas of the region and I barely even know what buses are at the Division closest to me. Your best bet is to read up on old posts. WES has been very helpful in informing us where all the WMATA buses are. As more C40LFs are accepted, expect more changes. Do note that the Neopolans will not change any division assignments since they will replace the MANs on a one to one ratio.
I had posted a list awhile back of what I thought operated out of what garage, but it was just guessing as a lot of runs are split runs from different divisions. In addition, some routes operate out of one division during the week and out of another one on weekends. Its almost pointless and too time consuming to do it again.
Now with the artic becoming popular in the Bronx and Manhatten will any artic be coming to Staten Island?
And are the Orion in Staten Island leaving? I'm seeing more and more rts buses out there
I'll be very honest with you,no.the roads in Staten Island for the most part are very very narrow,the artics wouldnt be able to make full turns on some intersections so it's never gonna happen.as far as i can maybe guess,the depots are deciding to use what few rts's they have but there's still way more orions than rts's in SI.
For the 51st time (at least) artics make TIGHTER turns than standard buses. For that matter, if they can run an MCI on a street, they can run an artic. Staten Island has issues with bus routes to begin with. On some routes, two buses can't pass each other because the road is barely wide enough for two lanes of traffic (Richmond Hill Rd comes to immediate mind).
-Hank
well at 181 street I see the bx36 artic sometime on that narrow street and it work good there. So why not have the Staten Island test then too.
You've never been to Staten Island, have you? We have cowpaths that pass for streets. This is because when the VZ was built and the Staten Island building boom started, the people who moved here started to see Brooklyn happening, and successfully blocked roaad expansion. So proper development of highways and arterial streets never occured.
An extreme examble of this, which has thankfully been overruled, was the rebuilding of Rockland Ave. A two-lane arterial, this street has an extremely dangerous S curve on it, and was the scene of at least five fatal head-on collisions a year, in addition to numerous accidents that left people seriously injured. When the city went in to widen the road and erect a stable barrier between the traffic lanes, the protesters came out of the woods and demanded that no work be done, lest a rodent be killed. Fortunately, the city government saw the neccessary public good in the project, and the trees first folks were unable to block the project.
For those of you who have ridden the s54 or s57 (or in the old days, the s110 and s106/111), this is the section the bus uses to get to Richmond Rd.
-Hank
Richmondtown?
What ever happen to the 4 artic on the M15 line? I don't see them anymore. And when will someone talk royal coach into making the artic buses into bus bank they would be hot right now and Mr. Charles W. would make alot of money.
I have looked into this myself. Do you have any idea what it costs to produce just the die for the casting? Over $50,000. That's before you order the buses produced, minimum 3,000 units. Are you willing to contribute?
I also understand from a posting by Douglas Wotring (Charles' son) that when you buy the 3,000 units you cannot return or get credit for any defective pieces. Therefore if 100 of the 3,000 are bad the Chinese say "tough sh**". The units are paid for before production so the manufacturer has got your money upfront and you've got junk that goes into the plastic recycling bucket you put out in front of your house.
I sure most of us on the bustalk want some of these artic bus bank. Me, myself I would buy about 20 of them because these are the buses of the 2005 and these are going to be collector items like the orion bus bank. So i'm sure he would make his money back like that. I own about 100 of the rts bus bank and now there boring. I've made alot of them rts nova, painted some of them like the buses are in nyc, made 4 personal depot to house then and now what some new bus bank(different)
Artic would be nice to have, like I said I would buy 20 or more and I sure I'm not the only one on this talk wouldn't buy one or more. Some-
one should talk to him like I did tell him or the person who though of the rts buses that WE ALL WANT SOME ARTIC BUS BANKS.
When you can come up with solid orders for at least 2,500 consideration will be given to this project. Easier said than done.
If any of the British SubTalkers venture over here, you might be able to answer this.
If I sent you (by virtue of volunteering) pictures of buses I took in London, could you help me identify manufacturers and models? I need this information for the captions on my website. All help is greatly appreciated. To volunteer, e-mail me at oren@orenstransitpage.com. Thanks in advance!
It looks like WMATA is putting bike racks north and then going south.
It would seem like they are doing them in this order:
1)Montgomery, Western, and The New Flyer CNGs
2)Arlington, Four Mile Run
3)Fourteenth Street
4)Royal
5)Bladensburg
6)Annex, Landover, Southeast
As for the new fareboxes, does anyone know when these will be installed. They are supposed to start showing up anytime now, hopefully they will start showing up on the Neoplans. If they install them the same way the bike racks are installed, they will start showing up on Montgomery and Western buses.
New fareboxes start in Arlington from what I am hearing. I hope that the Smartrip will become like MetroCard Gold and paper transfers can be eliminated. I have a way to boost ridership (free transfer idea) but I don't think WMATA wants more riders now.
Even though I did the usual N20/21 transfer in Roslyn today, because of the rain, I did see an N27 going to Roosevelt Field today, but only about 4 people on board. I didn't see anyone waiting at any N27 bus stops. I was going to take the N27 back from Greenvale, but it was late and the N20 came first.
Next Sunday I plan to ride the N27, and I'll have more detail on how much riders it is getting. Like any new service, it will take a few weeks to get noticed.
Did they publicize the new Sunday service? I didn't see anything other than the usual "new schedules in effect on these lines...".
Also, what day does the N8 start?
CG
Well there were signs all over Roosevelt Field terminal about it, as well as flyers on the buses. One N27 bus I rode the driver was giving them out to everyone boarding.
i saw it running on sunday as well. Not many people on it-did see 4 on it around 8am on Glen Cove Road near Northern Boulevard. Will have to call up LIBus and get the new schedule.
You can also download schedules from the website www.mta.info
Was used in the episode titled September 21st;in which the firefighters were returning from the still smoldering remains of the WTC on the said above bus.Hard too believe it is going to be year next week.
I was looking thought Transit Talk in the Central US - Smart Trains section and saw a RTS with the rear wheel and door out of place. On all the RTS's seen and drove the read wheel is right under the last window and the door right in front of that. This on the rear wheel is under the last two windows about mid way between them and the door is were the number four window use to be. The bus was a TMC model T80-207, bus number 9369. Dose anyone now of any other RTS's with this set up. I sent myself the photo of it if anyone what to see it or tell me how to link to Bustalk.
Thank
Robert
That particular bus was an experimental unit -- with a T-drive engine configuration instead of the usual transverse engine with a V-drive transmission.
As the photographer of the bus in question, let me explain:
SMART's 9368 and 9369 are experimental RTS-07 models. Two items were on trial in the version: a T-drive configuration and a shorter wheelbase. I can't speak much to the first feature, but the shorter wheelbase resulted in the rear door being pushed up one window position. These buses have very interesting seating arrangements. Also note that they have the second-release wide front door, although the wheelchair lift is at the back.
These are the only two such buses you will find anywhere. All other RTSs have the rear door in the standard position.
I can try to answer any additional questions about these unique buses.
Thanks for the Infomation on the buses, I just looked very waird to see it set up like that.
Robert
Got any pics of these freaks of nature?
-F.
Yes, check out the new SMART page on Trevor Logan's TransiTalk site and see my pictures!
Any information is greatly appreciated.
I'd bet on it going to the new West Farms. In the old days (when it was the Bx26) when both Coliseum and West Farms were still open it was assigned to West Farms.
Wayne
Fresh Pond Depot
-
8/30/02:
B13- RTS #9164
-Jay
haha very funny
I was thinking somewhere on Staten Island. How much time would it take to deadhead to and from the depot each day? Or how much would be spent paying drivers to go from the depot to the start of the route?
Yeah, Yukon buses would have to spend at least 2 hours just to get to the Bx21, and the bus won't even have enough gas to get back! LOL
No, actually they have made a special arrangement with Liberty Lines to store them in Yonkers. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Actually, it'll be coming to Jamaica depot.
BIG AL
When will West Farms finally open up?
eBay Item #2135194162, closes Monday September 2, 2002 just after 10:30pm.
Motor Coach Age, June-July 1975, 44 pages, 56 photos and front cover shows World Trade Center in Manhattan. This is a very rare and hard-to-find large issue detailing the history of the bus system in Brooklyn, New York, from its inception to the publication date. Includes 2 route maps, trolleybus wire map, rosters, and extremely detailed route dexcriptions from the inception of the routes many of which were streetcar lines. There is also a two page article which details the new streetcars being bult by Boeing Vertol for Boston and San Francisco. Except for a slight tear on the lower right corner of the front cover, this book is in A to A+ condition.
I heard rumors that Yukon Depot will lose more buses mainly buses that are parked at the Arthur Kill Rd/Richmond Av turnaround on 9/8/02.
Is this rumor true or not.
The Bus Lines that crosss Eastern parkway, will it be cut, meaning that the line is cut at Eastern Parkway and turns back around?
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
Yes. I saw that all N/B B41s diplayed Empire Bl on their destinations signs. Im sure that the B44 and B46 displayed Eastern Pkwy but did not make it that far......... I cant comment on the B43,48, and 49 buses on their destination signs. I also know that the B14 terminates at Ralph and the B17 terminates at ENY Ave.
Drug testing at first had many problems that a good attorney could overcome. A story circulated for years of a female b/o who drove either Manhattan or Bronx (I would say Mabstoa, but maybe she was at 126). Anyway she came up dirty at either her annual medical or a FFDT (medical due to an incident, doesn't have to be an accident). She tested positive for Coke and was dismissed. Get a good lawyer, go to court to be re-instated. She claimed that her boyfriend put coke on a part of his body to remain at attention for an extended period. She further claimed that she ingested this drug by using that part of her boyfriends body like a popsicle. Understand, that in the 70's & 80's (Studio 54, etc.) this was something many people did to artifically enhance their manhood. So it wasn't that crazy of a story. Now this one BLX personnaly observed. Working patrol car, sent to a 'knockdown' (b/o struck a pedestrian with bus) on Myrtle Ave. Took b/o to Jay St. medical dept. for blood & urine testing. Before they made this attorney proof, b/o was instructed to go into an exam room, leave sample in plastic cup and if he couldn't stop use a metal pitcher for the overflow. BLX waited outside exam room, when finished b/o brought urine sample to lab tech. B/O dismissed for coke after results come back. Lawyer time maybe 1-2 years later, b/o claimed (on advise of counsel) that lab tech told him to use metal pitcher and then pour into the specimen cup. Using pitcher had his urine possibly mixed with others. This presented some doubt as to the whole tesing policy. BLX was at the hearing for b/o to be re-instated and was grilled by b/o attorney as to what happened on that day. Let BLX tell you, attorneys can make you very nervous. BLX was looking at the TA attorney for some signals, but he couldn't do anything or the impartial hearing officer would see it. So BLX answered as best he could. Needless to say, months later, b/o got job back, plus back back for almost 2 years. These days, testing done correctly.
Similar to a story my aunt told me while on a jury in LA. As the OJ trial showed police work ain't the greatest out there. Anyway Aunt is on a jury where a woman put a fancy car halfway up a tree and was charged with DWI. Lab tech put on stand and asked how the blood was drawn..."I swabbed her arm, inserted the needed, drew the blood and later analyzed it'......Defense Lawyer "What did you use to swab her arm?" Answer "Alcohol" ....Lawyer "Could some of the alcohol on her arm been brought through the needle and mix with her blood" Answer "possiblly".......ergo, reasonable doubt.
The story about the female worker have been running around in RTO as well. I thought it was some1 who worked in the subways.
It's also been mentioned in Stations as well. Old timers like to tell that (and other stories) to new people to impress them what things were like. I consider it one of those TA stories we'll probably never hear the original version of.
RTO? What's that? And what's with this crazy female running around?
Sorry, but I am curious!
-F.
RTO = Rapid Transit Operations.
In other words the department that operates the trains.
The basic story that I heard about the female was:
For some reason a female had to go downtown for a drug test. The test came back positive for coke. She argued that the night before, she had oral sex with her boyfriend who had taken it beforehand. BLX says it alot better than I did. And he probably knows more about the incident than I do. But this is the story that I've heard from Station Department employees.
I returned from my round trip cruise on the QE2 to England and spent a few days in New York before coming home to Washington. For the past two years, I've riding each Manhattan bus route. I've ridden almost all of the routes. Still reserving judgement because I haven't ridden the M30, M106, nor M116 routes yet, the M8 is very nice.
The trip is 25 minutes and has a generous 20 minute recovery time on Saturdays. Greenwich Village is attractive though the operators don't have time to admire it, trying to avoid pedestrians crossing in the middle of the street and double parked cars and trucks.
Michael
Washington, DC
Man it was another wet, wet day out here on the island. While most of you in NYC were spared problems from the heavy rain, out here it was Friday all over againw ith a stalled storm offshore.
Anyway, several trees came down, one on Bryant ave in Roslyn and another on Glen avenue in Sea Cliff.
Going home from doin laundry in Great Neck, my N27 went right at the fork by the viaduct and east on 25a, making a left onto Glen Cove road. Then left on Back Rd, left again down Bryant ave. At the intersection of Bryant avenue and Glenwood road we resumed our normal route. You could easily see the tall tree, fallen and blocking the roadway just south of that intersection. A supervisor car was leading us to Glenwood Rd and Shore rd where it stopped. I also saw westbound N21's taking the same route.
Then approaching Sea Cliff and going up the hill, we went to the left instead of the right. I asked the driver what was going on he said there was another tree down on Glen ave. Since he wasn't getting directions from the supervisor I gave him directions down Sea Cliff ave. The bus went on Prospect ave and then we took Sea Cliff ave. I got off at Sea Cliff ave and Roslyn ave, right near where I live!! I owe a big thank you to the driver for letting me off there.
Thanks to NIMBY's all this fun can be had, because they don't want trees cut down. At least I didn't lose power, yet. The rain has also stopped for now. Meanwhile I might see a bus goin down my street!!
I'm keeping my eyes peeled. :-)
Nothing like having the bus going right by your street. I'll never forget when a main street in Philly was being redone, the busses detoured right by my house when I was bus loving kid! SEPTA (then PTC) routes K & L in West Oak Lane were running that way for almost 6 months!
Chuck Greene
" my N27 went right at the fork by the viaduct and east on 25a, making a left onto Glen Cove road. "
That should be N21, my mistake. :-)
Exactly how far is the bus normally from your house?
N21-3 blocks
N27-10 blocks
Not sure what LIB policy is, but with NYCT, anytime a bus is diverted due to an obstruction (or otherweise), passengers may get off anywhere along the detour, provided it is a safe location.
Sunday begins the changes in NYC buses and train line are you ready?
I'm looking forward to the B47 return. I know this is not subway talk but I'm going to miss the Coney Island station. Buses will take over Coney Island. I guest more express buses will be added to go to Manhatten from out there.
They already have the B47 bus signs up.
The new B13 is going to be tested by me, DaRidgewood. However, I'm actually going on Monday the 9th because the Sunday schudule is one bus every 30 min. the entire day(and I don't want to wait that long for every bus). Plus I want to see how it does on a busy day. I'm going to ride it at least 5 times(maybe more). I'm going to bring a note pad with me, and write down any flaws I see(esp. along Bushwick Av.)
-
Sept. 8, the day I witness the death of the original B13.
In the mid-fifties on the 149th St. crosstown run, a new style Mack bus, which I think was number 5000 (maybe 6000) showed up. Does anyone remember this bus? I don't recall seeing any others like it.
The b8 in jackie gleason depot? I think it will move again but aleast all those buses park on the street at east new york depot will be gone. But rts buses back at gleason depot I thought they were getting the rts out of the depot It's the only depot in Brooklyn with new, no rts buses expect the 8400-8500 but even those were disappearing. Gleason was going forward not backward hmm.
Why not put the b48 back there too?
Wait a second, are you saying ENY is giving RTSs to JG? Just because a route is changing depots doesn't necessarilly mean that the depot is sending some buses with it.
Well Gleason doesn't have enough buses to accomadate the B8, so I would imagine that the RTS buses will be comin to JG.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
The whole reason for the route transfer IS to get buses out of E.N.Y.
There still has been no mention as to what will be transferred over there, so don't bother asking me that usual "which buses will be going" question.
BIG AL
JG doesn't have enough of it's own buses to handle the B8 service.
This means that JG will get other buses.
ENY depot, B8's old depot, was told to get rid of it's RTS's parked on the street. Now the buses must go elsewhere.
Reasonable conclusion: ENY will send some RTS's to JG.
The low floor flyer at gleason depot. Are they anymore coming to Brooklyn? I like those buses as much as the artic. So why not have them in Flatbush depot or East new york depot too. The rts buses have been in New york since 1981 and New York has always change buses, but there old rts buses will not seem to leave, why is that
The rts nova some of them are okay but some look like they where in a war inside and out. the 5000 series nice seats but they look old now.
Is there a 9700, 9800 or 9900 series out there or coming? Why does the Bronx get all the new buses?
Even some of the Fresh pond buses are fix up. SHOCKING I saw 9150 looking good
The New Flyer C40LF can only go to a CNG depot, in this case JG. The TA can if it wanted to get some D40LFs, the same model except runs on diesel, but I believe they are ordering mostly {possibly totally?} CNG and HEV buses at this time.
The RTS buses have proven strong, otherwise they'd be gone.
9700s and up were originally meant for the Orion 7 CNG or HEV, but the new numbers are 6365 and up for the HEV and 7560 and up for the CNG. 9700s and up may eventually go to artics if they get too close to #6000, where the 1999 Orion 5s are in place.
Why does the Bronx get all the new buses? Who knows?! I believe the B41 and B49 deserve artics as much as the BX12 and others.
The bronx gets new busses because all the other boroughs got the new busses, and the Bronx was pretty much a dumping ground for busses on their last leg, for many years past.
Are you kidding me? Where do you think S.E. Queens was getting their clunkers from for the last several years up to this one?
BIG AL
And until the late 1990s, SI was the dumping ground of the older RTSs.
Kingsbridge. The MTA stated thet the bronx will be getting most of the new bus orders because it always got very old busses to use, back in the "Bronx Bus Guide" dating back to '94\'95.
a bus is a bus. you get on . it takes you where your going and then you get off. who cares if its an artic or a low floor. as long as it has good brakes i`ll drive it.
wrong! New York is different. People in New York are defferent. We like different type of buses. Do you eat the same time every day? Do you wear the same thing every day? WE NEW YORKER LIKE NEW THINGS can i get an amen
There are no more New Flyer Low Floor coming to JG, the only low-floor coming is the Orion 7 CNG Low Floor, I personally hate that bus. And Brooklyn is getting the latest buses, I do believe Manhattan also.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
when will this orion 7 come to jackie gleason I saw one on the bx28 line never had a chance to ride it
It's there already according to the Transitalk Roster, though I'm a frequent on the JG lines and have seen no sign of it.
I'm sorry, I got that from the UTC roster.
I'll ask my mom to ask somebody at the depot if 7560 is there or not.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
Umm, the 9100's are the best thing in Fresh Pond, so don't bash them just because they don't look as good as some of buses. In fact, buses 9153, 9142, 9140, 9156, 9159, 9164 have a Fresh look on the outside, and most of the other look good too. At least Fresh Pond buses are treated better than the ones in ENY or KB.
Also ENY's RTS's are dying. 3669 and 4014 will probably be gone after 9/8 when ENY loses the B8. I just hope FP doesn't get them
Your question about The Bronx getting all the new buses made me think back to when I was a kid growing up there....the feeling back in the 50s and 60s was that Manhattan always got the best buses.
Anyway, you made me curious about the distribution of newer buses throughout the system, so I decided to go to www.transitalk.org and do a little figuring from their bus rosters, and what I came up with really surprised me.
This certainly isn't scientific by any means, but here goes. I looked at each depot, and noted the total number of buses assigned to the depot, and the number of buses at the depot that are vintage 1998 or newer. I then added up the figures for the depots in each borough division, and calculated the percentage of buses in each division that are 1998 or newer:
Staten Island: 86% of buses are 1998 or newer
Bronx: 57% of buses are 1998 or newer
Brooklyn: 43% of buses are 1998 or newer
Queens: 32% of buses are 1998 or newer
Manhattan: 29% of buses are 1998 or newer
The above figures include suburbans as well as local buses, so the Staten Island figure is skewed high because of the large number of MCIs there. The Bronx division, however, does not have ANY
MCIs, and it has a significantly higher percentage of 1998 and newer buses than does Brooklyn, which DOES have a good number of MCIs. The proliferation of artics in The Bronx apparently has a lot to do with that.
TransiTalk also lists a few upcoming new deliveries, and the depots for which the new buses are slated. It seems that the "new bus race" will be evened out a bit when the new deliveries come in. Of the 445 new buses listed, 262 will be going to the Manhattan division, 93 to Queens, 60 to Brooklyn, 30 to The Bronx, and none to Staten Island. It may be coincidence, but the borough getting the most new buses from these deliveries is the borough that currently has the lowest percentage of 1998 and newer buses, the borough getting the second most new buses has the second lowest percentage of 1998 and newer buses, and so on down the list. Of course, shifting of buses when new buses arrive could change the ratios one way or the other, but it seems that the boroughs with the oldest fleets will be getting the most new buses from the upcoming deliveries.
So, while The Bronx does currently have a high percentage of newer buses, they're not going to get much in the way of new buses from the upcoming deliveries.
well mci buses are not to me new bus cause there only express buses and I have yet to see and express bus in the bronx division
Why did the B44, nostrand avenue bus, get batwing buses very late? When they were running on the B41, flatbush avene, line a long time?
We all know the batwings buses right?
The first air condition buses? The fishbowl bus with the wings
which route did these buses run on? B26, B38, B41 and?
These are the artic buses of today
How can YOU be giving US trivia questions when YOU don't even know what the answers are?
BIG AL
The original TA order of batwing buses (8001-8202) was delivered new to Jamaica, Flushing, Flatbush and 126th Street (note there was no Queens Village depot in those days), so they ran on all routes out of those depots. It is true that Flatbush tended to use them initially mostly on the B41, but they could occasionally be found on other Flatbush routes, including the B44.
MABSTOA, of course, had the non-air conditioned batwings (5516-5525; 6701-6900) before its air conditioned order (8301-8790) came in. Thus, batwings could be found on almost all MABSTOA routes. There may have been one or two MABSTOA depots that didn't get any originally (for example, whatever depot the M14 ran out of back then).
That was HUD that didn't have any 5303s w/Bus-O-Ramas.
Wayne
If artic would come to Brooklyn (yeah right) which route would the come on beside the B41? and why?
That's not a trivia question.
Since Flatbush Depot is a likely candidate for artics, any route in Flatbush is fair game. The most likely would be B41, B44, and B46 because that's where the most savings could be gained.
David
Usually, he who puts the trivia question out for the answer knows the answer himself beforehand.
and why is he talking dirty on this board.
Does anybody know if TA time is unified, ie all metrocard checkers and metrocard machines have the same time so no discrimination is given toward a metrocard? This excludes those new overhanging signs on some platforms that display the date and time since I've already seen those way too fast or too slow. And while I'm at it, is it also true that TA time is 2 minutes BEHIND real time to help people to not miss their bus/train? And then, are the bus/train schedules based on real time or TA time?
Official T/A time is the actual (real) time on the East Coast, set by the U.S. observatory in Boulder Colorado. Transit uses "atomic" clocks to know what the real time is. Atomic clocks pick up the signal from the main clock in Colorado and set themselves automatically. Usually they do this 3 times a day. Console has an atomic clock to broadcast the time over the bus radios periodically, and Jackie Gleason depot has an atomic clock in their crew room, other than that, the other depots and employees seem to set their clocks and watches to whatever time they see on a regular clock. We have had talks at meetings about installing atomic clocks in all the depots so that employees can be more syncronized. I have an atomic clock at home and always set my watch to it every week, down to the second.
The fareboxes are usually 2 minutes behind for reasons I still don't understand. I think somebody posted why the fareboxes are behind, but I forgot what the reason is. Transit however regularly tells it's employees not to go by the farebox time, but to go by the actual time instead. All employees are required to check with the clock in their crew room when they report so they know what the real time is, but this rule is not enforced. As a result, everybody seems to have different times on their watches. But then again, even if it were enforced, I've seen the crew room clocks incorrect also, so it would make no difference.
The bus and train schedules are based on real official time, which is T/A time.
BIG AL
I forgot to answer your metrocard discrimination question. The machines are not syncronized, however they are generally within 2-3 minutes of each other. Extremely rarely, you will see one 4 or 5 minutes, but that is unusual. So if your talking discrimination, it could be either for, or against you, depending on the way the 2 clocks are timed at the giving and receiving ends. Generally, if anybody got on my bus with a paper transfer that just expired within the last 5 or 10 minutes, I just let them go.
BIG AL
to add to your response big al. the clocks on the bus fareboxes are set every time the money is vacuumed out.
i set my watch to the atomic clock also. my computer automatically sets its clock to the time of the atomic clock. and in set my work watch to the time on my computer.
newflyer
United States Naval Observatory Master Clock
Listen (Real Audio- delayed 30 seconds)
Does anyone know the September dates for the St. Gennafo Feast and what, if any, bus routes will be affected or re-routed during this time?
Dont know the dates (it ain't like it used to be i don't think), but i dont think any services will be affected. maybe the B51 on canal but that doesnt run late anyway.
Went by the new Gateway Plaza Mall over the weekend. You can reach it by going down Fountain Ave to the end at Seaview Ave. Make a right on Seaview Ave which will become Gateway Drive. At Erskine Street there is a new exit to the Belt Parkway which is not opened yet. Gateway Drive does not exit the complex yet I belive that it will met Flatlands Ave but the streets over there are not opened as yet.
It looks like the only bus that will be able to enter the mall at this time will be the B-13 Crescent Street route
Thank You
I'll be looking forward to the new Brooklyn Bus Map and any Bus timetable for whatever buses will go there.
I pass by there on Saturday on the Belt Parkway, they even have new exits and lights for the mall, I look forward to going there.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
FYI the Gateway is scheduled ( a portion I believe ) to be open by Sept 30th. The latest is by Oct 15. So MTA has start planing. With the weekend headways on the B 13 I would not like to go by bus there.
I love the B13. It's the most dependable FP route. However the new B13 will screw up. Before they take it to Gateway, I'm going to rate how the new Bushwick/Williamsburg portion is. Only 5 days left of the original B13's greatness. :(
I dont want to start any rumors or speculations, but I just got word that there are plans to send the B6 to the mall as well. IMO, the B82 would be a better canidate to go to the mall. I also would like to see the B103(Command) go there as well.
Barry: U got to let me know when u r in town so we can busfan together.
There are absolutely, positively NO PLANS to send the B6 to the Gateway Center mall.
David
What Brooklyn Buses are going to Gateway Center?
That's a matter being negotiated between the mall operators and NYCT.
David
So at this time there are no buses going there. Later, maybe. But not now. Fine.
At the present time what are the closest buses over there. Not that I expect any of them to go there. I understand it should not be taken as an indication of what buses will go there. But I want to look at a Brooklyn Bus Map and see around where it is (will be?).
Right now there's no "there" there. The mall isn't open yet.
David
Thanks for that info David. Im sure when you or Barry will be the first to let us know what route(s)will go there.
SubBus
Will be in New York next week
E Mail me at BarryLv@netscape.net and i will e mail you my phone number.
I am unable to send you an e mail direct as i am in a public libary
Would very much like to meet you
Thank You
Got it!!! Thanx
You heard it from David. Now you will hear it from me. There are definitely NO plans about sending the B6 anywhere from it's current route. I would love to know who starts these rumors.
BIG AL
Al,
Can the B-13 be able to go into Gateway when it opens. Is there time available for the extenstion in the recovery time on the new schedule
Thank You
Sorry Barry, I don't know anything about the time tables on the B13. That a question for Q5Merrick or David to answer from the scheduling dept.
BIG AL
Thank You Al
Enjoy Rockaway and Hegman Ave and the B-8,B-15,B-35 and the B-60
Thank You
Should a decision be made to bring the B13 (or any other route) into Gateway Plaza, sufficient running and recovery time will be allotted.
David
Here some info for you non-B13 riders:
The present B13 has a decent number of riders when its headed in the Spring Creek direction. For this direction the three most important stops are:
1. Palmetto St.(First stop)
2. Fresh Pond Rd./67 Av.(near the M-Train Station)
3. Cresent St./Jamaica Av.(under the J-Train Station)
Most of the time there are more riders on the B13 going into the Spring Creek direction(most being Ridgewood residents). Some of the B13 riders already know about Gateway. In fact some people are taking the B13 to Spring Creek, because they are hiring many people(which includes me too). For the people that are going work at Gateway, that don't have a car, what choice do they have?
Most of the B13 riders(like me) will support this extention.
"But what about the Bushwick/Williamsburg extention?"
Yes there is already going to be an extention on the B13, why? Because the TA wants the B13 to have more riders in one trip. Think about this, why did the TA choose to combine the B13/B18 same year that Gateway is going to open? How come in didn't happen in 2003? Explain that to me. And I refuse to call this a coincidence, because I know its not.
Also why is the B13 going on Elderts La. instead of Cresent St.? To pick up more people? Since its very likely that people from that part of Brooklyn know the existance of Gateway, this change was meant for to get more riders to go there . Don't worry, on Sept. 9, I'll explain what this is about more clearer.
It will take a few weeks for the B13/B18 riders to get used to the change. Once their used to it, I can see no problems with it going to Gateway.
-
B13- RTS #9159
There is no question that the new B 13 is a very important route and it's headways is going to prove that for future workers and customers at Gateway. A friend I know who got a job there is carefully looking at the B 13 schedule today, Monday and Saturday. The workers are scheduled to start in October in which is projected to be also open. I think the MTA has played it very smart with the extension of the B 14 AND the B 13 but my concern is the Eastern BrooklynCanarsie, Starett City passengers to Gateway. What route is going to help them get there?
The Best route will be hiking along the Belt Parkway and then thr weeds to the Mall
The B13 was put to on Elderts La to serve the movie theatre. I know it sounds dumb but, look at it this way, mall then movie theatre. As someone else mentioned, headways on the B13 might improve and who knows? 24/7 service????
B13#9140
Mmm, the Multiplex Theater. I'll check this out tommorow when I'm testing the B13.
-
B13- RTS #9574
Hmmm, the 8000 series Neoplans are officially dead, the 3000-3131 Neos are on death row, and the 3132 and up neos will be slowly facing doom between now and 2006, (except 3478 which went up in flames on the "Surekill Distressway" on Labor Day.), what will SEPTA do about this situation? We used to be the biggest NEOPLAN users in the USA until LA swiped the title, will SEPTA get the nice and cool looking low floor model, or stick with the unique Flyers, to match the Artics. Speaking of the artics, they sure are proliferating up and down the Mid-Atlantic area, with SEPTA, Bee-Line running theirs, and NJT and WMATA soon to be receiving them, not to mention Baltimore getting some Low-Floor 40 footers after that 10 bus experiment in the 80's. And a final question, is NEOPLAN in the running for the NJT Suburbans?
P.S. I thought the RTS was dead in this area (with SEPTA and DART dumping them) then NJT brought their EXTREMELY LOUD RTS'S DOWN HERE.
I agree with you here on this issue mdlbigcat. The neoplans have been extremely reliable and helped to make SEPTA what it is today. I was one who was dissapointed to see the new flyers and nabi buses on the streets of center city......contracts that should have gone to neoplan.
I love the transmissions sounds of the Neoplans. I really dig the noises in first and second gear. Now we have"dull" sounding busses.
I must admit that the New Flyers are pretty nice busses.
Chuck Greene
i like the bus i like when the torque lock up at 5mph and cause a jerk than shaft in to second gear at 10mph.that is one of my favotes buses in septa.The NFI are nice with that weird looking sign in the back i think that unquite,And also it faster than the nabi's.the fist time i rode on it i was so used to the nabi powertain in the second gear.that i throught that the gears was weird with that pick up 25 mph which make it pick up faster.i throught that every bus with a b-400r trany has a "long" second gear until i encountier the NFI which turn out to have a "short second gear.I am a spec. person so i think they should Neoplan's for they order becouse i want to hear different engine sounds come from a DDC 50 and allision B-400r tranny also to see what new unqiue things that septa mit do to it. and offcourse since i am spec. person to see the top speed of it.
Any reply's or busfan commants r welcome?
I love that trasmission too. Yeah, the buses basically sound the same, although the Dorado's kinda sound cool. It's too bad they don't make transmissions liek that anymore. The only problem is that they jerk you around a bit, and people don't like that. The New Flyers are really nice buses-I think besides the Neoplans, they really have the "SEPTA Look". (Just so you know, the SEPTA look is basically buses that kinda in some way look like a Neoplan bus). I went inside on at the SEPTA Roadeo. The only thing I don't like is the major vibration in the back half of the bus-the high floor part.
i think in 94 or 95 i think septa did have a bid for neoplan but nabi win the bud and the next thing i know i seen nabi pop up everywhere in sept. 96.
:(
You know, I love Neoplans-the 3000 series are my favorite buses ever-I mean, I grew up with them! But the Neo artics-they seem really bouncy, like they don't have strong shocks. i'm not sure is that's an artic thing-the last time I actually rode an artic before the Neos was before WMATA got the Ikarus American artics and MAN artics were prevailing (my last one was a MAN). But geez, I practically come close to tears everytime I think about those Neos leaving for good. I was going to drive one when I grew up...
Yeah. Even though in the 80s Neoplans were supposedly not good, they really worked with SEPTA to make them decent, if I am correct. They have been good, and are in great shape. The youngest one is probably around 13 years old now. The NABIs aren't even ten and some of them dont' look that good. Some drive around with their' engine lids WIDE OPEN.
For starters, I think the bus involved was 3473 (at last check, 3478 was at Comly), which would make it a Frontier bus. He appeared to have been either deadheading into service as a 124/125 or actually in revenue service.
Some 3100s from Southern have made their way to Frankford (I saw 3172-3182 and 3066, 3068-3070 in the yard area where the ETBs were stored prior to the reconstruction).
Neoplan seemingly is the odds on favorite for the order which would replace the Flxible Metro B suburbans.
Also, Pittsburgh recently bought about 150 Neo low floors and may be getting some more within the next couple of years. The MBTA is also buying some of their new buses from Neoplan as well.
Will the NJT Neoplans be one door (Like the Metro-D's) or two doors (like the Metro-B's)? I prefer seeing two-door buses.
more likely they will be two doors
More likely, it would be single door. NJT drivers aren't keen on suburbans with 2 doors because at night, it's tough to see people waiting to exit at the back door with just the small "night" lights on, and distracting to leave the fluorescent lights on at night on suburban routes where street lights can be at a premium (and passengers can't see as well out of the dark tint windows if the interior is substantially brighter than the outside).
Also, Neo is the only remaining manufacturer who will build a 40'x96" transit/suburban bus. These will be needed for Holland Tunnel service (NJT #120, and other local carriers), just as the D4000N was necessary in the MCI order.
i hope that septa will fellow and buy acouple of them too.
1. The 37 stop at Grosvenor has moved to where the 47 stop used to be, the 96 has now moved down one shelter so it is the last one when youu exit the station and turn right. From north to south, here is how the buses now stop at Grosvenor:
NORTH END (Tuckerman Lane)
Empty
37
46
Crosswalk
WMATA J5
6
96
Emtpy
Empty
SOUTH END (Beltway)
The 96 drivers were using the J5 stop and 6 stop anyway which made quite a mess. There were also some trucks for the garage construction parked in the bus lane.
2. 025602 was on the 37, this bus was presumebly at Silver Spring but I never saw it there myself.
3. There are new bus stop signs with only 37 and 96 along Tuckerman Lane. These are the new dark blue signs.
4. 5814 was the other bus on the 37.
5. WMATA 4055 has a bike rack (saw it on the T2).
6. RO 92 (Bethesda 8) is now an ATE/Ryder route which makes very little sense but it is. 5101 was one of the buses on this route.
7. 5128 has LED taillights. The only other ATE Ride-On buses that have them are 5101 and 5102.
8. I saw WMATA 4302 on the 30 this morning (old news).
9. No confused passengers at Grosvenor looking around for the 47. I guess they all knew to take the 6 to Parkside.
Got a pic of the 40xx with bike rack? Or where can I find one?
-F.
Didn't have my camera and I wouldn't have been able to take it anyway from where I was. The only other bus I saw with a rack was 9721 but I was going to the airport and didn't want to stop to take a picture.
I can even do a display similar to the NextBus technology on the 38B Line telling you when it might come:
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Translation: Just wait and it will eventually show up. If you wonder why I say just wait, check out the General Orders on my website.
saw wmata bus 4904 2day with ugly bike rak
think they need to start petition 2 get rid of em
They do stand out quite a bit, I like the Ride-On ones more.
Start a petition to change the color, you can't get rid of them after they petition to put them on.
Also, unless you know something I don't, there is no bus numbered 4904. There is a 4094, 4049, and 9404.
Might have meant 4049, saw it today on the J4 at College Park with a bike rack. 4094 might have one also.
All Charlotte buses have bike racks on them. Even the MCI express busses. My God are they ugly.
I don't want to see them on the Orion IIs. That should be interesting.
Did I forget to mention 3717 (U Street Link Bus) was on the E6 this morning?
Wouldn't the Orion II's flip over from the extra weight on the front from the bike racks?? Haha.
9722 was sighted today on the T2 with the rack. Other Metro-Es were too but I didn't get the numbers, I was too far away.
LOL!! Yea like the Flintstone car did when the brontisaurus steak was placed on the roof and the car tipped over.
I heard that this bus was supposed to be delivered in August...it's September already, where is it?
Come on, man, it is only September 3. Besides, how many transit vehicle orders arrive on time? Among the more recent ones that have been late:
NYCT Orion VII
NYCT D60HF
WMATA CAF cars (the last one was due back on 6/30)
R142 (still arriving)
R142A (still arriving)
WMATA has scheduled the unveiling of their first Neopolan for October 20 at a time and place to be determined. Let's see if that date holds. This week's press release did NOT mention it, while the August 19 and 26 releases did. Might there be a delay?
Also throw in WMATA's 4200-4400s. They were supposed to be delivered in February 1997, but the first ones began service in December 1997.
[how many transit vehicle orders arrive on time?]
I'm still waiting for my first ride on a Type 8 light rail car in Boston. Yeah, I know it's not a bus, but that order has got to be the biggest transit vehicle delivery fiasco in history (perhaps not counting NYCTA's experience with the Grumman 870's!).
Very true! I saw a 3 car Green Line car train of type 7s at Longwood on the D branch when I was there last week.
Just found out that our TA will have free bus service system-wide on the 11th of this month in memory of last year's tragic event, and will provide a free shuttle to Downtown, where a candlelight memorial will be held in honor of those who have suffered. Will any other TAs out there be doing this as well?
Also, one of our buses has been wrapped in a special "Remember" theme, supposedly with patriotic colors and an image of the Manhattan skyline...I have not seen the coach yet but hope to have a pic ready for all of you to see.
I know this is a sore subject for many but thought I should pass on the info to everyone.
-F.
I wonder if LI Bus will also have free service. Perhaps the TA is doing this so people aren't afraid to visit the city.
Good point. I would have thought to increase ridership.
-F.
This is referring to NYC MTA?
no, Flx said "our TA", referring to his local TA in Virginia
Correct. Valley Metro in Roanoke, VA to be exact. Also, they will have a special wrapped bus in memory of those who perished on 9/11. Usually they use their 94 Gilligs for wraps but I was told one of their 2001s was used. While I hate to see them mess up the new paint, it's fitting as these were brought into service around that time. In fact, my first ride on one was on that very day; no. 0103, to be exact. I was on my way to the mall to run errands but found out it was closed due to the tragedy. I will never forget that day.
Perhaps it is MTA MCI 2185 that was placed OOS due to the attacks?
Either that or GMC RTS 4544.
Are only the buses free? Not the subways?
#231 Q32
I thought that it was Virginia's TA!!!
It is; Valley Metro in Roanoke, VA. Sorry for the confusion there.
-F.
I'm just glad my brother and sister survived[he worked in Tower one,and got the back of his neck sliced open by falling debree comming down the stairs,and she works for BMCC up the street].It's all good. God is good.JUST MY PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW HERE....
Amen to that. And I'm glad they are okay.
-F.
thank you.
Please specify what TA your talking about.
I would have assumed your talking about NYCTA.
Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA). My bad on the confusion.
-F.
Hey folks...I may be able to make some New Flyer LFs in HO scale by converting European coach models...let me know if you may be interested. Talk to you soon!
-Fred
how about the bus bank size? ho are so small.
I wouldn't mine an HO size since that's all I use.
YES YES YES YES YES YES---absolutely. email me with details.
E-mail me with the details also.
Here are some bus obeservations I saw today and yesterday it seems like Four Mile Run has gotten Bladensburg's Orion 6s.
2070: On 5A
4023, 9267, 9453:Flxibles with bike racks. I have yet to see a Western Orion 5 with one yet.
2065: On Unknown route but was on a Four Mile Run route
2076: Two places, once on a 25B in the morning and again in the evening, deadheading back to Four Mile Run.
9357: On the 13B, boy this bus gets around
2168: On a G2. This bus is a Southeast bus, but might have been on a 14th Street route. I can't say for sure because the bus had signed "NOT IN SERVICE" but had a paper in its right front window
2061-2081 use to run from Bladensburg, and now they seem to be all now running from Four Mile Run. It will be a couple of years, when all of Four Mile Run's diesel buses are transferred out making room for their CNG order. Hopefully the CNG order will consist of bus order from 2 manufacturers than one. Having one kind of bus is not good.
When you say 14th Street, you mean Northern Division, right? That is always what it is refered to in official literature.
I think that is it, they wouldn't have two run letters with "F" in it, with the other being Four Mile Run. And to follow up on my original post on 2168, those buses have been switched from Southeast/Annex to Northern. I call it Southeast/Annex, just based on the fact they are using each other's buses, even though they are miles apart.
I had the chance today to look at out new bus more closely. I'm sorry to say that I think Coach and Equipment and Ford could have done better. The bus looks like it was cobbled together from pieces in their parts bin. I'm just not excited about it as everyone else is. Part of the reason is that it's powered by gas. I grew up around bus diesels like the 6V/8V-71 and truck diesels like the Mack Econodyne and the Cat 3208 so a gas powered bus is an oddity to me.
Anyway, testing has been completed so she will go into revenue service tomorrow. One driver has already taken a liking to it so 544, ex 180, is now an orphan. Even though everyone will get the chance to drive it, I'm not looking forward to it. But I'll keep an open mind.
Yeah, it's really a shame. Unfortunately, we're no strangers to CNG with MTA L.I. Bus. They wanted to be the trailblazers with the new CNG technology, and the end result was buses that ran (and still run) like GARBAGE. I was so pissed off when the last the Fishbowls and Flx New Looks got replaced with the CNG technology. Damn you Orion, you suck!
I'll drink to that. I'd take a New Look over an Orion any day. You feel the same way I did when our Flx New Looks and Grumman 870s were replaced by a fleet of Gilligs. What a sad day that was for me...I lost the buses I grew up with. The very ones that got me INTO buses.
-F.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. The Fishbowls and Flx New Looks were the buses that hooked me as well :o). Incidentally, you are right about Berry Blue Pepsi. It's excellent!
True that. They are classic rides that will fascinate you with buses for sure. And yeah...Pepsi Blue is great stuff. Dammit man...you just made me want to go buy one! :) Power of persuasion. Pure power.
I think 11A meant gasoline, not CNG. He's talking about a Ford-chassis minibus. The Ford V10 is a dog under loads like a minibus.
Thank the tree huggers!
One of the stumbling blocks with the CNG bus on order is where to mount the tanks. The manufacturer doesn't want to put them on the roof and this bus needs a range of at least 200 miles period. If they do, Brookhaven Town will be the first to have a cutaway CNG bus. None of the other towns would have a bus like it. So far, our new gas bus is getting good reviews. One driver who regularly drives 750 (diesel) likes it better than 750, however, one of the guys that used to drive the Stony Brook campus shuttle bus doesn't like it. As an irony, most of the drivers here are retired MTA bus operators.
Perhaps the technology has improved. I just know the early M.S.B.A. CNG buses (numbers 657-666, and 100-245) have engines in them that can't get out of their own way. It shocked the hell out of me to hear one of the mechanics say these buses have PLASTIC impellers on the water pumps. It's only been a few weeks since the new order came in, and currently those buses operate out of the Mitchel Field Depot. It brings a tear to my eye to know that in a few short months (if that) all the diesels will be gone.
no way all the Orion V deisels will leave. they have to keep a few-in case of snow emergency or a major diaster. Didnt someone post here that MTA-LIBus kept a few Gilligs?
Yes, and that's true, but you know damn well (as I do) that those buses will never see revenue service again. The last Gillig used in an emergency was bus #544 during the 09/11 tragedy.
i suppose if you need to ride a gillig, you have to get to Suffolk Transit. Though i love the 30-foot Flixible Metros better.
No, I would rather take a spin in our 1978 30-foot Flx New Look :o)
Really? You own one? Do tell all about it!
-F.
I want to go there and ride the Suffolks one day. After all the models I have built (and am still building) of their buses, what a treat it would be to finally ride a real one!
-F.
I've ridden the ST 30 foot Flxibles a few times. In top gear at maximum revs, the speedometer indicated 45. If that's their top end, then maybe they have a deep axle ratio or they could use an extra gear. Love the engine, but I think they would be better if equpped with the Allison 5 speed. I love them a lot, but they seem to have some kind of electrical problems.
Yeah, Flxible ADBs are notorious for that, sad to say. What kind of engine is in the STs?
-F.
It sounds like a 92 engine or a version of it at least.
Yeah the Cummins L10G was on those older buses. What a piece of garbage!!!!
Another problem of ours is where the CNG fueling depot will be located. Currently, we can go to the highway yards or the Brookhaven landfill for gas or diesel. One of the proposals calls for the refueling depot to be at Brookhaven Lab, which is too far away from our yard. A better choice would be the Old Town yard which is much closer. They have the space to build a CNG fueling island. But right now, nothing is definite.
We were to receive CNG-powered Orions in 1994 but the cost was too high for upkeep, and the new fuel station would have been $500,000. As a result, our TA got a fleet of new Series 50-powered Gilligs with paper-thin transaxles that break every time you turn around. The trannies were such crap that Gillig had to extend their warranties from 3 years to 5 years. And the real sting of it was that these replaced our last Flx New Looks and the Grumman 870s. I think we all know which ones I liked better.
-F.
Yes, obviously but I would much rather have the Gilligs at MTA L.I. Bus with diesel engines than the crappy Orion V CNG buses, despite the problems with the Gilligs. Now, even Queens Surface is finding out what a nightmare the new Orion V CNG's are.
Actually, I was referring to the Flxibles they replaced. But yeah, some Orions would have been neat to have here. We got a loaner from WMATA (no. 3900) down here once, and the drivers fell in love with it. They actually said it reminded them of our old Flx New Looks as it felt more like a "nice heavy bus" compared to the Gilligs. And the woodgrain with the quasi-slanted sides reminds me of a Flx Metro.
-F.
(I know this is bustalk but the NYC subway is the greatest in the world)
I have a zip file with bullits from 1967 and the present including diamonds, double letters, Future Numbers and letters (10, 11, 12, 13, P, U, X, Y, Train to the plane, and others. the files are in Gif and BMP.
I will Send Them by e-mail request, please place *bullits* on the subject line.
mapman_sp@yahoo.com
What if we place 'Bullets' in the subject line, will you still send them?
-Hank
The Subject column want hode my full subject title.
I would like to know are there any universities or colleges in the State of New Jersey around the City of Paterson to City of Newark area that have fields/major of study about the transit industry? Because I want to move out of Toledo, Oh and stay with my aunt and cousins in Paterson, NJ for a while or maybe for good to enjoy NJ and NY, particularly both NJ Transit and New York bus systems and the cities that have alot to offer.
I was thinking engineer, business, marketing or going back to art(drawing), but I need a field that deals with transit or the transit industry. There is a college I heard that has that type of field, but I don't want travel away from where I live because I'm living with my parents. I would like to go down to New Jersey and stay with my aunt and cousins again for a while, but I want a job and go to college for two years or maybe four that haves some skill envolving around the transit industry.
I would gladly appreciated if you guys can help me out find the colleges/universities that has a field/major involving around the transit in the Wayne-Paterson- and Newark areas please. I would like their website addresses too. Also, I was woundering, from the Bus garages of NJ Transit Wayne garage, mainely Paterson(Market Street Garage), Meadowlands, Big Tree, Orange Garage, and Fairview garage are any or all currently hiring for bus washer and bus cleaner? I would like the addresses of those garages I have mentioned so I can mail them a letter and resume. You guys can e-mail me privately to my address of the information.
A million thank yous to all of you.
Keep the buses rolling and have a great day!
-Ronnie
NJ Transit Flxible METRO D #1914 & 3791
RTS unit #1426
NJIT - New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark has degree programs in transportation engineering/planning.
www.njit.edu.
Stevens Institute in Hoboken also probably has something like that -
www.stevens.edu.
I was just looking thru a WMATA roster and noticed that Gillig 5080 was built as a demo for SF MUNI. Did anyone ride that one and notice if it was different in any way?
Thanks
To be honest doesn't look like from the outside, but never got to ride it. Did ride one before they retired, man they looked awful, ready to be retired.
You know, it's funny; whenever I went to DC, I never noticed any Gilligs in service for WMATA at all. Saw some Orions and such that I thought were Gilligs, but upon closer inspection, I found out differently.
The only time I saw a Gillig was a grey and white 6V92-powered 30-footer running by a hotel at an intersction, just a block up from The Left Bank. Not sure if you know where that is, but it was a really neat hippie store with a bunch of tie-dye and Beatles stuff.
Also, I never got to see any Flx or GM New Looks in service; I went up in 1997 and it was mostly Flx Metros (score!) and a few NABI artics running in Chinatown. What a pity; if I had seen one of those old dogs still running around in service, I would have probably had sensory overload. And you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have tracked one down and rode it all day!
How old were those Gilligs that they retired?
-F.
I am not sure where the Left Bank is, I have seen some around George
Washington University, after they were rehabbed. They rarely left Southeast, once they were transferred from Bladensburg. They were about 14 years old when they were retired. They are about the age as the Flxible 9200s, but didn't last as long. The 9200s are still running as hard as ever. The Gilligs were retired late last year.
Well, it looks like we will have Gilligs here and everywhere else for a long time to come, so I won't really miss those. It's great to hear the 9200s are still rolling strong; when I first visited DC in 1997, the first thing I saw was 9201 rolling down a tunnel, complete with brightly polished Alcoas. What a beatuiful sight it was!
-F.
Yea it was nice to see that along with 9202, 9360, 9444, 9443, 9301, 9701, 9424,9425, 9426 with Alcoas. Also 9830-35 and the 4000-4100s Flxibles, the 4200-4400s and 3900s came with Alcoas, but was eventually taken off, liked them better than the dull wheels they got now, even the black ones with the old paint scheme were better looking. Except for the Orion Ones, all of Fairfax Connector buses and Baltimore MTA buses have the Alcoas.
Yeah, I agree; I thought the steel wheels were more of a charcoal grey though? I don't recall seeng them in black. I hate black wheels on a bus...they just look so ghetto, like they are running around with no hubcaps. For example, when I rode the RTSes at DDOT in Detroit, I could not believe they were 2002 models. Those things looked 20 years old with the black rims. Alcoa..white courtesy phone!
Also, I have a pic of WMATA #8700 with bright silver five-hole rims...those look pretty good on them, IMO.
-F.
They were actually dark gray, a few times one would see a shiny black wheel set on one or two buses. The rims were a little darker than the old skirt paint.
Weird. Yeah, dark wheels never did much for me. I swear I have seen bright silver wheels on some though, especially repaints.
-F.
Today, I rode 8713, WMATA 1st generation Flxible B it had a bright shiny wheels. Still rode as smooth as the day it was put into service. Looks pretty darn well too.
9210 also looked like that too. I saw it the other day sitting in front of the Virgina Square stop. The back panel was also nice and shiny.
Even 8739 looked good and that bus ran in Southeast, with bus garage conditions and the heavy usage that bus went through in Southeast.
It WAS actually built as one of the WMATA units -- but there was a dispute between Gillig and WMATA just before delivery of the units, and Gillig painted it into Muni colors and let them thrash it for a couple months....once they were done, it was driven back across the bay, cleaned up, repainted into WMATA colors and delivered to Washington.
Really? What was the dispute about...bids?
-F.
I believe MUNI has some VERY stiff requirements....to deal with the VERY stiff hills in their scope of operations. Among other things.
Probably the same things that cause Gilligs to be NOT bought by NYCTA, MBTA, Chicago CTA, or LACMTA.
ah,but Gilligs DID run for PACE, the suburban serivce outside of CTA services. So Gilligs were in Chicago.
I'm talking the MAJOR agencies...not the outlying suburban agencies that can deal with a lighter duty bus. I seriously doubt a Gillig could stand up to the rigors of it. They'd fall apart in the process.
They seem to do OK for smaller cities such as ours, but I'll rather take a Flxible any day. Too bad they went bye-bye in the US. :( Oh well, there's always the "cubic zirconium" versions in China.
-F.
Hehehe, really. I don't think those Chinese versions are bad looking at all -- especially the double decker version!!
I like the ones that look like Flxes, and the double decker is kinda neat. But the low floor version looks awful, and there is also one that looks like what would happen if you stared at an RTS while dropping acid. But the one that looks like a Metro is OK with me!
-F.
This is true, as were Grumman 870s...the latter were silver with multicolor stripes. I found a TIME Magazine article from 1981 with a pic of them in an article about the frame recalls. Really good-looking Grummans!
-F.
Bike racks on the following buses:
9206 (which happens to be my bus photo of the month with a picture I took last year)
9256
4054
4044
9721 (previously sighted about a week ago)
4044's sign was not working. A computer printed sign for the L8 was taped in as were blank pieces of paper so one could not see the malfunctioning sign.
No Orions seem to have gotten the racks, yet.
5602, which I had said was on the 37, was back again today. I asked the driver if it had ever been at Silver Spring and he said as far as he knew, it wasn't. I did once get 5706 on an AM 37 trip but that was due to a shortage at Gaithersburg. It lasted only a day.
Saw 5205 (Ford) on the 29.
Link to today's Daily News on this
http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/15914p-15065c.html
If Westchester make this move then I hope Suffolk Transit and PART to follow suit
I just hope that the Bee-Line is ready for a ridership increase whenever this occurs. They will probably react properly, not like NYCDOT did. Westchester DOT people are reasonable and concerned about passenger demand. They are quite budget minded too but flexible about the needs of the bus riding public and react when necessary. Lets hope that this becomes a reality. It would mean a good $$$ savings for passengers, increased ridership (hence cars off the road - maybe), and more jobs to transport and supervise the increased ridership. All-in-all, a win / win situation.
I hope the Neoplans come in soon since Ridership on the 20 can go up to a point that it's going to get PACKED!
yeah this is great news!
If Bee Line Get's MetroCard then here's what the fares would be.
All Buses exept for the BXM4C:
$1.50 a ride(Coins,Tokens,MetroCard), 1/2 Fare,75 Cents a ride(Coins or a RFM)
1Day Unlimted($4),7 Day Unlimted($17),30 Day Unlimted($63),11 Ride Pay Per Ride MetroCard($15)
BXM4C Fares: $3 a ride(Coins,Tokens,MetroCard),1/2 Fare $1.50 a ride(Coins,1 Token,or RFM)
30 Day Express Bus Plus Unlimted($120),11 Ride MetroCard($30)
Uh, no, off peak the fare may be 1.40 (since they are a private route) and they should also give Metrocard paper transfers. Queens Sufrace has the different fares, so Liberty Lines may follow that.
Of course Bee line will lose money with transfers and Unlimited cards since the TA will pay them .75 cents or less for each different fare payment method.
The Bee Line buses are so slow, sometimes you would be better off walking. The Bx16 runs in Mount Vernon (and definitely the Bronx) more than the W54 runs in the Bronx (and Mount Vernon itself). The Bx34 should be extended to the Gramatan Avenue Metro North station (helps Mundy Lane residents)
Suffolk would probably be a little bit of a long shot, even though there are some connections between Suffolk Transit and LI Bus.
As for PART (Putnam Area Rapid Transit), forget it. There are only 5 routes in the entire system (one of which operates 3 days/week), and the only way MetroCard would be useful is at Jefferson Valley Mall, where PART 2 connects with Bee Line.
I rode 4309 today, nothing spectacular on the inside, but how I got to ride it that was something else.
Buses Rode Today:
42XX: A12 to Capital Heights
8845: U8 to Minnesota Avenue. This bus was doing bus leap frog with 2359.
2422: U2 to Anacostia
2094: P6 to Metro Center
23XX: D6 to Dupont Circle
4309: 42 to Metro Center
2081: P6 to Rhode Island Avenue Station. This bus I have observed that has the camera on it. There were rumor that all buses were to have these but now heard only a few.
2436: 83 to College Park
4281: F6 to New Carrolton
4086: F14 to home
Bus observations:
5241: Has a flag decal behind the front doors, the only bus I have seen that has it
8925: Must have been trying to not sing a song because both the front and side destination signs had nothing but Ms.
Southeast's 21's are based at Northern, 2163-67, might be at Arlington, only saw 2168 and up on Northern routes.
Seems like all of Western's Flxibles have bike racks but not one Orion 5.
9325: Now at Western with a bike rack
9343,9339, 9310 are ex Bladensburg buses now running from 9343 & 9310 from Southeast/Annex and 9339 from Landover.
It is now official. ALL New Flyer CNGs are in service and boy how. At Minnesota Avenue they outnumbered the articuleds and other buses, and this was non-rush hour, the X2 runs every 10 mins and the others run 20-30 minutes, the V7 runs from Southeast/Annex, the U2 uses Orion IIs and there was (soon to be a rare sight on Bladensburg routes), a Flxible.
Now to 4309. I was at Dupont Circle taking pics, and I was about to head to P Street to take some pics of a couple of Northern garage buses, when I spotted 4309 about to head into Dupont Circle. I saw this bus about a mile away (believe me you could see it from a mile away). Anyways I got to where it was just in time to get some pics. I got an idea, since I was going back to Metro Center, I might as well ride it back there. I went to see if I could get a schedule, but there was none, so I had to go by my bus euthusiast mentality (no jokes please). I had seen 4073 (with bike rack by the way) had come before it so if luck holds, 4309 would come after 4073, which it did. Although nothing special inside I did something orange in the bus, but it wasn't done by WMATA. Some goober wrote in orange on two of the seats and even though I think Janet Jackson is the sexiest woman on the face of the earth, DON'T WRITE THAT CRAP ON A BUS SEAT, OR A BUS WALL OR A WINDOW OR ANY PART OF THE BUS PERIOD.
This was one of the more enjoyable bus rides I have taken.
The flags are being applied as part of the 9/11 commemoration. Read the press releases on WMATA's site for more.
I am in Western territory alot so I will let you all know if the racks show up on the Orions here.
My guess was this bus was decaled for a press conference, this is the only bus I have seen with it, as for the flags they'll show up one or two days before 9/11. You usually see them on the 4th the day of the Fourth (the flags, not the decals).
"American flags or flag decals will be placed on both buses and trains"
That is from the 8/26 weekly press release. The trains still have their decals on the stormdoors for the most part. The buses will probably get the flags as they do on July 4th and will remain on for a few days afterwards.
Buses with flags yes, but I don't think they can put flags on the trains, not at the top anyway, due to the tunnels, most likely a large decal on the side perhaps. I remember seeing one Metrobus with a small flag decal on the side, behind the driver's side window. This was about four months ago, can't remember which bus or kind of bus. And remember those large flags that were put on alot of buses after 9/11. Would be better to cover some of their buses with ad sized "put" on flags, instead of advertisement for that week. They will stick with the decals nontheless, which is cool.
They are flag decals in the storm doors of all the trains. Look at the most recent pictures on my website!
I have seen the decals when I have ridden the train. If they are talking about adding other decals, then these would be by the passenger doors. Also that maybe the official decal that 5241 had, or it might have been a driver addition, remember a Montgomery bus had that decal of the American Flag behind the driver's side window.
WMATA will probably use flags on all of their buses, like they usually do, and what they did after 9/11. A few buses might have the decals, but I think practically all of the buses will have flags. And I have seen your website, nice work.
I started my freshman year here on Tuesday and it's been a blast so far. I was wondering if anyone here has a roster listing of the UM shuttle buses? I have seen 30 and 40 ft Flx Metro-B's, 40ft Phantoms, and I believe Thomas models. Thanks to anyone who knows.
Good luck to you at UMD. My son is a director/teacher there.
His name is Jeff Greene.
Chuck Greene
I have sort of a clue but I think that 1C/Ballston would have better knowledge of their roster.
Ahh yes, the good old days of driving at Shuttle UM. I was a driver there for four semesters in 1993 and 1994. They are a great group of people to work for and hopefully, they still have a good group of drivers. All the staff, except a couple of maintenance people and the GM are students. There are about 150 or so that drive and maintain the buses.
The 30 foot Flxibles are numbered 30-35 (1986 Detroit Diesels), 36-41, (1987 Cummins) and 4291-4791 (Cummins, these buses are known as 42-47, but the 91 was added for the year in which they are.) There are two 40 foot Flxibles, 6791 and 6891 (Cummins). I left before they received the newer Thomas and Gilligs. WHen I was there, we still had 1980 Thomas Safe T Liners which were pieces of crap, 4 Blue Birds and one stupid trolley. I never drove the trolley. One driver tried to get me to do a shift of his that required that monstrosity, but luckily, I couldn't do it.
The Flxibles were purchased as a piggyback order with Baltimore MTA. The Thomas buses that are there now were piggybacked with Ocean City. Not sure where the GIlligs came from. They are incidentally 35 foot, not 40 and are the first ones at UM to have digital signs. There was actually a nice article on Shuttle UM in an alumni magazine that I get.
You should try to get a job driving if you want. Good luck at UM. GO TERPS!! I loved that school and have such fond memories of being a student there. I majored in Econ and kept up in the transit industry using Shuttle UM as a springboard. I now make a very nice living in the transit field. The starting driver salary at Shuttle UM is $8.50/hr. I believe and they pay for training and the CDL licence itself. They also paid for the time I had to go to court to fight a ticket for an accident I had. The case was thrown out after the other person failed to show up in court.
Have fun at MD!
As a foot note, Flx buses 46 and 47 have wheelchair lifts. They are considerably heavier when turning with the lift under the front steps and were a pain in the you know what when going over bumps since they bottomed out easily.
My personal favorites to drive were 31 and 42. Bus 41 was the slowest and bus 34's console used to glow this cool green color, but sucked overall as it was very sluggish. That was the bus that I messed up the destination sign when I didn't realize it was ripping as it was scrolling and I also accidentally smashed the plastic covering on the speedometer of bus 35 when the needle stopped working and I used my fist to get it going again.
I remember seeing the first of their Flxibles on East West Highway they are nice to see, unfortunately the 6V92 seem to have been retired, because I go by the College Park Station alot and only have seen the 30' L10s, the Gilligs and the Thomases. I would like to see the 40's in service again, but the times I have passed both are just there. I wish WMATA had bought them, rehabbed them with new engines and release them back into the wild. I saw those Thomas Saf-T-Liners
and no comment on their appearance (it wouldn't be suitable for young
viewers).
Actually I did see one of UMD's 30' Metros w/ the 6V92 recently. I couldn't get the number. I used to see the 40' Metros regularly in Silver Spring, but now it's rare (since the Thomases and Gilligs arrived).
Wayne
Yeah, I saw Gillig 7701 at Silver Spring yesterday. Not sure where those 40' Flx's are going. They're only 10 years old, so they have a lot of life left in them. They could be used on the Greenbelt or Springhill lake runs too. I used to love 6791. Well, both were great to drive, but I just always went for that bus when I could, especially on Charter runs. The best were when I'd take a group to Baltimore and be able to deadhead empty and cruise down I-95.
The old Thomas's had that hideous orange. I hated driving those things. They had an awful turning radius. The best of the worst was bus 66, although something was wrong with the frame, so it would drive slightly diagonally!! It was a fast bus though, out of all of them. All of the 30' flx's with Detroits are slow, the cummins had great pick up.
So the 40-foot Flxes have Cummins? Are they L-10?
Yes - they are. In fact the 30' Flxibles w/Cummins at UMD are L-10's as well.
Wayne
I see; I assume the 1987 Metro "B"s are 6V71?
-F.
I not 100% sure, but I really think they have the 6V92. The 30' Flx Metro-Bs at WMATA definitely have the 6V92.
Wayne
Sweet! I hear the 6v92 is a SCREAMER in the back of a Flx. Is it true?
-F.
Oh yes - at high speeds you can hear them well - music to my ears. The Gilligs at UMD are 35' Phantoms.
Wayne
Awesome. And what is in the back of the Phantoms?
I could be wrong, but I think it's a Cummins, but I don't know which. I can tell you that they sound very strange - just like the Ride-On '99 Gilligs.
Wayne
Really? If it sounds strange, it may very well be a Cummins ISL. Those sound different, but surprisingly smooth for a Cummins. There just aren't enought "O"s in "smooooooooth" to descbibe our new ISL-powered Gilligs here.
-F.
I guess a "strange sound" is a relative term here. I certainly think they (and all Cummins) sound a little strange. This is probably because I grew in NYCTA and for years I was listening to (and riding) buses with Detroit Diesel engines. In the 70's all NYCTA buses (3500 plus) had DD 6V71 and later the 6V92 of course. Other buses in (and around) NYC... NYCDOT, Westchester County, MSBA, NJDOT, Greyhound and Trailways buses had DD 6V71 and DD 8V71 engines.
Wayne
I haven't seen one in a while, nice to hear they are still running.
What Thomas buses do they have...SLF 200s? And are the Gilligs low floor or an Advantage/Phantom hodge podge?
This is listing of where these buses either began service or was known to spend most of their time in service.
Flxible Metro
8700-8718:Landover
8719-8745:Southeast
8746-8769:Bladensburg
8770-8792:Arlington
8794-8799:Northern
8800-8819:Landover(and still there)
8820-8863:Bladensburg
8864-8899:Arlington
8900-8925 & 8950-8970:Northern
8971-8975:Bladensburg
9201-9209:Northern (and still there)
9210-9219:Landover
9220-9229:Montgomery
9230-9239:Four Mile Run
9251-9252:Northern
9253-9280:Western
9281-9284:Landover
9285-9289:Montgomery
9301-9349:Bladensburg
9350-9369:Landover
9370-9373:Northern(still there)
9374-9388:Montgomery
9389-9394:Southeast(still there)
9395-9413:Arlington
9421-9426:Bladensburg
9427-9429:Landover
9430-9440:Northern
9441-9447:Montgomery
9448-9453:Western(still there)
9454-9457:Southeast
9458-9463:Royal
9701-9723:Bladensburg
9724-9733:Southeast(still there)
9734-9743:Northern (still there)
9744-9765:Four Mile Run
9766-9775:Landover(still there)
9776-9785:Montgomery
9801-9814:Northern(still there)
9815-9821:Four Mile Run (still there, but not for long)
9822-9825:Northern (still there)
9826-9835:Montgomery
4001-4007:Bladensburg
4008-4013:Northern (still there)
4014-4022:Southeastern
4023-4030:Western(still there)
4031-4037:Landover (still there)
4038-4044:Montgomery
4045-4050:Four Mile Run(still there, but not for long)
4051-4057:Bladensburg
4058-4063:Northern(still there)
4064-4070:Southeast
4071-4080:Western(still there)
4081-4087:Landover(still there)
4088-4094:Montgomery(still there)
4095-4104:Four Mile Run (still there, but not for long)
5151-5156:Bladensburg
5157-5165:Landover
5166-5174:Montgomery
5175-5182:Arlington
9481-9498:Arlington(still there)
Orion 2,5,6
9601-9620:Arlington
9621-9630:Montgomery(still there)
9631-9640:Western(still there)
9641-9650:Southeast
9651-9660:Bladensburg
4200-4224:Southeast
4225-4246:Four Mile Run (Still there, but not for long)
4247-4255:Annex
4256-4286:Landover
4287-4299:Northern
4300-4324:Royal
4325-4344:Montgomery
4345-4358:Western(still there)
4359-4380:Bladensburg
4381-4387:Arlington(still there)
4388-4395:Four Mile Run
4396-4412:Montgomery(still there)
2100-2114:Royal(still there)
2115-2146:Montgomery
2147-2162:Arlington(still there)
2163-2172:Southeast(was there, until this week)
2173-2207:Northern(still there)
2208-2219:Western(still there)
2220-2231:Annex
3900, 3941-3950:Four Mile Run
3901-3915:Bladensburg
3916-3922:Western
3923-3934:Landover
3935-3940:Northern?
2000-2026:Four Mile Run
2027-2060:Landover(still there)
2061-2081:Bladensburg(was there, until last week)
2082-2099: Southeast
NABIS
5201-5225:Northern(still there)
5226-5236:Bladensburg(still there)
5237-5241:Montgomery
5242-5244:Landover
5245:Bladensburg
This the "origins" bus roster by garage, if there was something I left out add it here. I mentioned to all of Four Mile Run buses "still there, but not for long", that meant when Four Mile Run's 250 CNG buses start showing up, guessing, late 2003-2004, they will replace all of their diesel buses. I didn't mention the MANN's just because they are soon to be replaced by the Neoplans.
Okay WES, a question: Is there an Annex depot or that means that they are in storage?
This is a working bus garage. It is really P.G.'s unofficial second garage, in that the buses that run from there are mainly used in Southern Prince George's County. Most of Southeast's buses have been kept there for about two years now, awaiting a new garage (whenever the hell that is). Since this is so and since Southeast and Annex's buses are used on each other's routes, I now refer to it as Southeast/Annex, even though both garages are miles apart. Before it was decided to finally purged the Neoplans from WMATA's roster, they were stored at the Annex. During a robbery nearby, two crooks set fire in the yard, destroying two of the stored buses and damaging a couple more. This yard will in the future be replaced by a new garage, actually two, one being the replacement for Southeast and the other being for Southern Prince George's County. I would like to see the latter near the Brance Avenue Metro Station, where it has access to Brance Avenue and 495.
These are some WMATA garage assignments of retired buses. The same rule apply, these are buses that either were originally at these garages or was most associated with their respective garages.
MANNS
5001-5043:Bladensburg
5101-5109 & 5120-5134:Montgomery
5110-5119:Bladensburg
A note on the 5100s, even though they saw service in Virginia, before they were moved to Montgomery, I am not sure which buses or which garages they served.
Gilligs
5080-5099:Southeast (Might have started at Bladensburg, because they were on Bladensburg routes when they started service)
9001-9115:Montgomery. Same thing here, these buses started at various garages, but again don't know who, but I do remember seeing them most of the time (when they had their backs on) in Montgomery.
The AMG garage listed is via MOTOR COACH AGE
Royal:7000-7062,7400-7419, 7500-7519 (They call it Alexandria)
Arlington(I assume the one near Ballston and not Four Mile Run
7063-7094,7420-7439,7520-7534
Bladensburg:7095-7207, 7440-7459, 7535-7554
Maryland (now called the Annex)7203-7234,7460-7469,7555-7564
Northern:7235-7320, 7470-7479,7565-7594
Southeast: 7321-7356, 7480-7489, 7595-7604
Western:7357-7399, 7490-7499, 7605-7619
I didn't mention the Flxible or GM new looks, because they were scattered, especially the GM new looks, except the 1000s and 1100s, which basically ran in Virginia as a whole until the early 90s, when the RTSs had rear door problems.
That's a great list of the AMG's. I used to like bus 7313 since that was the address of my house growing up. I was on it once, I think on the C2 because I remember taking it home from somewhere and getting off on Riggs Road. I also remember bus 7053 had a wooden bar with "Metrobus" printed on it across the back covering where the rear advertisement would go.
They were originally outfitted with tweed seats. I think some were burgundy and some were brown and the walls had brown carpeting. All you needed was a silk robe, a pipe and a bottle of jack and you had the perfect pad!! Thankfully, they were replaced with the standard red vinyl seats and the carpeting was replaced with the white walls found on the Flx New Looks.
Saw my house number 8220 on a number of occasions, but never got to ride them. I vaguely remember those seats, but after about 1981, never rode another one, but still saw them in service. They still have a 35' AMG at the Landover storage lot all by itself. I hope they rehab that bus with the original interior and make it part of the antique fleet.
That would be interesting to see. I wonder where they salvaged it from, or if it had been in their lot all along. They should have kept a Flx New Look, too.
Darned right they should have. Those were real workhorses at WMATA from what I have gathered here and elsewhere. I saw no. 8282 for sale in Salem, VA back in late 1996 or early 97; it had all the seats out and was selling for $3900 OBO. Wonder whatever happened to it?
-F.
I remember riding 8282 once in awhile. The 8200's and 8300's didn't have wheelchair lifts and were real workhorses here. I remember an 8200 bus coming to my elementary school in the early 80's to take the kindergartners on a field trip. They never did that when I was in kindergarten!!!
Really? How did you like the ride of 8282? And ealry 80s? That would put you in your late 20s, I assume. I remember when I was in elemantary school in the mid-80s and Valley Metro had one of their Grummans sitting out in the middle of the parking lot for what I would assume was a field trip. I'll never forget my fascination with it, and my teacher looked out the window and said "Nice Metro". :)
Years later, that same coach, no. 186, came into our hands at the museum, and we have restored it to original condition. And people are still saying things comparable to what my teacher said!
You may check it out at www.commonwealthcoach.com to see our work. Oh yes, and we are moving into a new building to finally become a physical museum open to the public. :)
-Fred
I'm 31. Would love to be in my 20's again!!It was around 1981 or '82 that I remember seeing it. For whatever reason, we were lined up in the front of the school and then the bus rolled in and I was like, what gives??? The ride on 8282, as was the case for most of the New Looks, was nice. I remember them to be pretty fast buses.
That's cool that you're going to have a museum open to the public. I may have to take a trip down that way. My g/f has been wanting to go to Monticello, so if I can combine a side trip in with Monticello, that could work!!
Yeah...our New Look Flxes were the same way...nice and speedy. There is a verse from one of Paul McCartney's first solo tunes that goes "I used to ride on my fast city line, singing songs that I thought were mine alone"; every time I hear that song, I think of riding our old 1976 Flxibles with my late father when I was a child. And this was around 1981 or 82 for me as well.
Absolutely plan to come here if you wish! We are right down the road from Charlottesville; in fact, they just got a ton of New Flyer LFs there and we are currently trying to obtain one of their retired RTSes for our museum fleet. And if the Flx Metro "B"s are still in service at Blacksburg, we could motor over that way and ride one around the Virginia Tech campus just for fun. Keep me posted!
-F.
I was never lucky to ride a Metrobus, just the cheese, the ugly looking cheese.
Ugh. We had both TA buses and cheese units for shuttles last night coming back from Elton John at the Civic Center; fortunately, the schoolies were on other routes so we got to ride a nice (sic) Gillig.
-F.
I have seen it over a year and I am not sure what they are planning on what to do with it. I hope they do restore it, even though it might take some work.
We actually have WMATA no. 7535 in our historic fleet; all the seats are there and it's partially restored. It's just a matter of getting it running; that thing has sat basically since it was retired.
-F.
The 51xx MAN's that ran in Virginia were based at Four Mile Run. They were mostly used on the 18 and 21 routes.
Thanks for the info. I had a guess they might have ran from there but couldn't confirm that 100%. One did run again on a Four Mile Run route, back in the late 90's but that was short lived. It also confirms that Four Mile Run can handle articuleds, now all they need is some now.
Some of the NABI's were to be used on the Columbia Pike Line (16's) but were sent elsewhere instead.
That's definitely one route that needs articuleds, which still makes me wonder how WMATA only bought 21 Neo artics. I thought they should have bought at least 70.
Hopefully, WMATA will purchase more of the artics for some of these other lines that could use it. I guess it depends on the capacity of the garages.
I hope they don't put all 250 proposed CNGs in Four Mile Run, they do need some artics. Off the bat the 16, and the 7 needs them, and the thought of CNG artics bother me. That 250 bus order needs to be split between either Four Mile Run and Montgomery, Northern or Landover.
I agree that they need to be split up. However, Chris Zimmerman, the County Exec. for Arlington County foams at the mouth in excitement with the CNG's. He's been on record for saying that he'll never vote for another diesel bus again. The ART (Arlington Transit) buses are all CNG fueled as well. There is a new lunch shuttle, the 67, that is running from 11AM to 2PM during the week between Ballston and Virginia Square to boost partonage of the shops in Ballston. There's nothing at all in Virginia Square, so this could be good, but I hate those little buses.
The 16, 7 and possibly the 1 and 23 could use artics. I think they should just eliminiate that 1B and make them all 1C's and just have something run rush hours to Dunn Loring where the 1B runs. The main ridership comes from the Rte. 50 corridor, Seven Corners and Ballston, so if they could run more 1C's, even just to Fairfax Circle, it would probably be a more efficient line than it is now. That and allowing the buses to use the shoulders on a portion of Arlington Blvd would be nice.
And maybe a better way to your job then useing your car
That's for sure!! I'd love for some express runs to go the reverse way as well. I'd definitely ditch the car for transit then.
Him and Jim Graham loves these things. I don't mind them, but I think they should have bought in moderation. For instance, they should have bought 50 CNGs and 150 diesels, so all garages could have benefitted, like in the past. This is the first time fewer than five garages recieved new buses (ONLY ONE-BLADENSBURG), since the 9800s came, and even that could have been more buses if certain state governments hadn't acted like a-holes and withheld funds to purchase them. I don't know if it has to be unanimous to purchase buses, but if not, they need to purchase diesels, that's if they want increased ridership.
I think the board does have to have a unanimous decision for their decisions. I know there are tons of pros and cons for both, but I agree that there should have been some diesels purchased in there too. The main problem with the DC area is that you do have to deal with two states and DC to get anything done. Fairfax can't have extra bus service unless Montgomery does for example, because the subsidies get divided between all the jurisdictions. If WMATA had the overall say in things, they could run it how they wanted to, rather than having to make sure that nobody gets their feelings hurt. Just as long as there isn't too much more privatization of current WMATA routes, I'll be happy. If they want to start new runs, that's fine, but WMATA needs to be the big guy in the area.
And that is why we might never see a Regional Authority, to tax and raise money for transit projects and purchases. I am surprised they ok'ed the artics and didn't veto them unless they were CNG.
Did you forget the 95xx Neoplans? All of them ran out of Southeast, mostly on the A's, the 90's, the V's and the W4. A few of them ran on the 30's on occasion. I was particularly fond of them because they reminded me (back in the day) of the then-new SEPTA Neoplans arriving in '83-'84, particularly the 8285 to 8584 series. WMATA even had an oddity-9500-which was a Neoplan demonstator built to SEPTA specs (96" wide, with red and blue seats). I wonder what happened to that bus?
Oh yea, I forgot about the Neoplans. How could I forget about the Neoplans. I remember going to a friend of my mother's house in the mid 80's and where they lived was right at the entrance of the ramp going to South Capitol Street and the amount of buses going up the ramp was amazing. Mostly AMGs and Neoplans, with some Flxible and GM new looks. A bunch of them would roll up that ramp three to six at a time about every 10 minutes (this was of course before the Green line extension opened). Would have nice to visit there more often. I also remember riding one on the W4, going to Capital Plaza. I kind of liked them, my cousin thought they were ugly (he was somewhat of a busfan, not nearly a busfan as I am). I also remember when another one pulled up on the same route, a kid who just got off of the bus, threw up (motion sickness, I guess). In the waining days, when most of them were in storage, because of problems, you would see one on the V routes around Minnesota Avenue. The last one I saw was on a tow truck on Route 50, heading towards Annapolis. I guess if Neoplan didn't have the reputation that it had during the 90's, WMATA might have gone their way, when Flxible went bankrupt.
I always thought Flxible should have built artics; in fact, had they not gone belly-up and continued their strong relationship with WMATA, it's very likely they would have developed one.
-F.
What saddens me about Flxible is the fact that NYCTA was about to give them a second chance, and in fact ordered buses from them in 1996. Unfortunately, Flx closed its doors before the order could be filled. I know given a second opportunity Flx would not have disappointed NYC.
Exactly. This is just a very unfortunate circumstance. Fate really dealt them a stinker on that one.
-F.
Why did they stop the Bx36 from going around Hugh Grant Circle? Isn't it easier for people going to E 177 Street-Parkchester Station (6) to get off there than on White Plains Road?
its not that far away from the station,all people have to do is walk a block behind the station entrance and the Bx36,along with the Bx39 is right there.It's no big hassle,I did it once and didn't complain about it.Not that I'm saying that your complaining about it,I didnt mean that.
I'm sure it saves at least a couple of minutes and it really not an inconvenience.
Wayne
In my own way of celebrating the return of the 1 train to South Ferry,I plan on taking a trip to the SI Mall on that day.I had this planned for the 16th but something's come up so i have to do it a day earlier.Anyway here's how it's gonna be....
1 train: from 157St-Times Sq.
R Train: Times Sq.-86 St Brooklyn
S79 Bus: from 86th St-SI Mall.spend at least 2 hours there then....
S79 bus: from SI Mall-Midland Av
S51 Bus: from Midland Av.-South Beach/Sand Lane.
S52 bus: from Sand Lane-Cebra Av/Castleton Ave.
S46 bus: from Cebra/Castleton Aves.-Castleton Ave/Broadway
S54 bus: from Castle Ave/Broadway- Hylan Blvd/Nelson Av.
S78 bus: from Nelson Av- Tottenville
SIRT: Tottenville-St.George
SI Ferry: St. George-South Ferry
1 train: South Ferry-157 St.
I want to go to Sand Lane because I havnt been there in 12 years so I wanna see what's different now from before.If anyone wishes to join me,let me know.
Sounds like fun!! Beware though that S79 can be a real slow bus!
real slow? the 3 or 4 times I've taken it so far its taken as long as it should,wether it be 65 or 70mins from Bay Ridge-SI Mall.I guess maybe it was slow the times you've taken it but not when I have.
Can't do all that before Sundown but I would love to join ya.
if i start the trip at around 10 AM,most likely I would be able to finish it before the sun goes down at around 8 or so.I was against doing it on a Sunday because every bus except the S46,S78,and S79 run every 30mins and that wastes lots of time.and the SIRT is every 30mins too since it always gets to St.George on time to meet the next departing boat to South Ferry.It may seem a bit much,but as long as its fun,what the heck right?
No you can't.
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html
The following information is provided for New York, New York (longitude W73.9, latitude N40.7):
Sunday
15 September 2002 Eastern Daylight Time
SUN
Begin civil twilight 6:09 a.m.
Sunrise 6:37 a.m.
Sun transit 12:51 p.m.
Sunset 7:05 p.m.
End civil twilight 7:33 p.m.
-Hank
whatever,my goal is to get back home before 9PM and thats that.
where would you like to meet? I told love9400 to meet me at the end of the Brooklyn bound platform at Times Sq. is that ok with you? at 10:30AM?
Brooklyn bound platform of the N,R,Q,W trains is what I meant to say.
I'm assuming you mean the very front of the platform?
If I show up, I'll probably be wearing blue jeans and one from my collection of black t-shirts.
no. there are 2 staircases at the end of the platform at Times Sq on the N,Q,R,w that come from/lead to the transfer to the 42 St shuttle and the 1,2,3 trains.That's where I am referring as the meeting place.
If you want to move to the front of the platform then thats fine with me.
Actually I just found out earlier that I have band practice on that day (they're usually on Friday evenings but sometimes we do it on Sunday afternoons) so unfortunatly I can't make it.
Next time I guess...
Why don't you come on out to the Hoboken Festival on 29 September (sunday).
awww alright,thats a bummer.and i'll think about it,i may not have enough money for a NJ trip.
Hoboken is no big deal, in fact it's just as cheap to get there as anywhere else within the city - just take the PATH Hoboken line ($1.50 each way, no Metrocard, though), get off at HOB, walk upstairs and the festival will literally be right there.
IINM, this will also be the first day of HBLR service to Hoboken so that is definately worthy of being checked out.
what is this festival all about?
It's run by NJ Transit, called the Try Transit Festival.
Several tracks have displays of contemporary and older NJ Transit rail equipment, and last year an Acela trainset was even there. And outside in the bus area is a line up of NJT buses, again contemporary and historical, and a Newark PCC should also be on display. Numerous venders also sell all kinds of transit-related stuff.
It's basically one-stop shopping for those interested in NJT.
sounds interesting,I'll give it some thought. I do like NJT a little bit.
And if you're lucky, maybe you'll get an MCI on one or more of the S buses ... ehhhhh, maybe not ;-)
The 15th being a Sunday, and Sunday being the only day I'm not either working and/or have classes, I may consider tagging along but I'm not sure right now.
your going to S.I.? My old stoppin grounds... worked at S.I MALL for years. and just to make things right betewwn us,you let me know where and when,and I'll see you there. kool?
ok,thats no problem with me.How bout i meet ya at the Brooklyn bound platform of the N,Q,R,and W trains at the very end where the first staircase at Times Sq? is it that ok? and is 10:30 AM good? you saw all that i wanna do and i get the feeling that if I dont start at 10 then I wont be able to finish it all before 9PM.I dunno what I'll wear so that you'll know me when I show up,I guess the only thing that will tell me apart from everyone else is that I'll wear a navy blue cap that says "Coney Island Overhaul". that should make it easy,afterall how many people pass by wearing a TA related cap? employees excluded.
okay,I'll make my trip down to the city and we will hook up.maybe we can hash out our differences and come a ''real''understanding.. seeya then!!!
okay,I'll make my trip down to the city and we will hook up.maybe we can hash out our differences and come a ''real''understanding.. seeya then!!!Email me and we work out the details....
What is the year and model of the Liberty Lines Historical Old Look #748?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
748 is a 1958 GM TDH-5105 Serial #3236.
Peace,
Kevin
That serial number is correct, making it an original Clevland, Ohio unit.
1975...The Transit Authority introduces kneeling buses to make access easier for passengers.
Peace,
ANDEE
That's what we need, the TA to get on it's knees to serve us better
There's only one thing I want on it's kne...never mind. :p
-Hank
Check out this link from today's Philly metro on SEPTA's new CARD (Computer-Aided-Radio-Dispatch) System.
It's a really nice profile, complete with color pictures.
SEPTA is moving into the future (finally).
(the link goes to a pdf file on the metropoint website)
http://www.metropoint.com/content/020905/USPHI_20020905_A_Metro.pdf
In the article, it mentions that two depots have yet to have their vehicles installed with the CARD system control panels; the two depots are Elmwood and Red Arrow. I'm not all that shocked that Red Arrow is one of the last depots to get the equipment installed.
When I was on the "el shuttle" last week, I noticed it had the CARD
system. Yeah, I'm surprised too, that Red Arrow will be one of the last to get it.
Chuck Greene
Well, as a follow-up, NABI 5298 is believed to be one of the first buses at Red Arrow to get the new CARD control panel. Saw this last night on my 104 trip.
According to an ad in today's Philly Metro...if you buy a home near transit you can quality for SMART COMMUTE, a special mortgage program offered by Citizen's Bank.
As part of a program to encourage transit use and support neighborhoods served by transit, Citizens is offering a "location-efficent" mortgage for homes with easy access to several public transit options.
I tried to look up some info on-line at Citizensbank.com...but found none, but the ad in the paper says the offer is avaialable throughout Southeastern PA........
you can see the ad for yourself in the philly edition of metro at metropoint.com
Does anyone have any information concerning the routing of the downtown Manhattan local buses on 9/11 for the memorial services?
Also, any routing information concerning the Express buses is appreciated too.
Where I Work, We received word that the mayor is lighting an eternal flame at the globe in battery park later that evening, and that streets and tunnel access will be blocked.
Also, Northbound lanes of West Street closed as of 5AM and Southbound lanes open up to Canal Street. West Street will be open Northbound only, with vehicular traffic using the southbound lanes.
Yesterday when leaving work at Harrison, I followed NYC RTS 3850 driving off the Doremous Avenue Exit on the Turnpike. It turned into the NIMCO packing lot, where two others idling, possibly 3882 and a 4200 and others were getting the freon pumped out. There were 3 MAN artics cut in half, two from Westchester/Bee Line, and one that had been used for a NJ college shuttle service. There was an NJT 1700 inside the compactor, scores of others on their sides getting fuel tanks and engines removed, and a 2 story mound of flattened fiberglass, steel and blue fiberglass seats getting scooped by a payloader to flatbeds for transport to the hammermill across the street.
NIMCO Shredding...Coaches go in, but they don't come out.
How sad. :( Was the NJT 1700 a Flx? Please tell me no!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony M.
NJT BUS OPERATOR!
Tony, please don't tell me the 1700 was a Flx...PLEASE?!?
-F.
Fred,
I am sad to say, but yes. She was the first in a series of Flxible Metro B Transit buses. 1700-1721 are transit style buses, without the suburban seats that are now assigned out of Greenville Garage in Jersey City. These buses are seen on the 80 81 87 and 43 routes. I am afraid 1700 has gone to that big bus garage in the sky! See Ya When I Get There.
=-(
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator.
$#!+....NOOOOOOO!!!!!! That's TERRIBLE. Was she a Metro A or Metro B? Either way, why would they DO that? Surely they could have sold it via bid. There is a place in Shawsville, VA (between Roanoke and Blacksburg) called Sawyer's Bus Sales that has carried many ex-NJTs, including several MC-9s. I'd like to see them get a Metro or two!
-F.
1700 was a metro b . Maybe she needed repairs so costly that it wasn't worth fixing. Unfortunately that was the route that NJT took .
Troy
Fairview Garage
That's terrible. Just an abomination. And to think these are the same people that saved the lives of all those NYCTA Grummans when the Big Apple gave up on them. What a clash in thought trains there.
-F.
Fortuately she was a Metro B. We are losing Metro B's left and right today, We are now missing buses 3212 3214 3186, I dunno wtf is wrong with NJT, they are pissing me off with this. Well I am off to work now, I have to go and do the 126, so I gotta go and search for one of our remaing Flxibles left. Gee I hope 3109 or 3274 are there!
Aww well, have a good weekend everyone.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Thanks Tony; you too. And I hope you get to drive a Flx today. I wish I could...:(
-F.
I don't have that problem at Fairview : we have a ton of flexibles ranging from 3067,3068,3100,3184,3255,3256 ( sorry Tony ) and a ton of 3500's.
Troy
Ok Troy,
You don't gotta rub in pal..........LOL Hey 3165 was at my garage today, we swapped for 3017, which is absolute crap!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Thanks for the warning about 3017 Tony. I'm not crazy about 3165 because I set the emergency alarm off once while running the turnpike.
Troy
Fairview Garage
LOL..................I thought it only went off when the engine is on fire? How did u do that? Don't worry 3017 is gone it is back here already, 3165 is gone! =-(
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Are both coaches Flxes, I assume?
-f.
of course! Our Flxs are numbered 3000 and 17-1900 series buses.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
I was Nimco today, saw a lot of Flxibles Metro b's I saw 3572, 3192 3526, 3026, and a few more, 3192 looked the cleanest out of all of them, But I have a feeling that all these buses are doomed!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Dammit man...if only they would sell them to the public as-is. They would bring a LOT more than a scrapped bus, and could be reused in many ways! How old are the buses you mentioned anyway?
-F.
Those buses were built in 1989-1990.
Troy
Fairview Garage
The reason 3192 looked so clean is because it wasn't used after it was taken from DeCamp and sent to Bergen Ave Bus in Bayonne. The mechanic there told me it was in bad shape while at DeCamp but he fixed it up. Bergen ave had no use for the bus so it is probably seen its last days.
Troy
Fairview garage
You know too Lafayette & Greenville, They make me mad too. They had Metro B's that were really in great shape. 3187 and 3200, those buses too, I believe were never used as well. They just hung out there till NJT took them back. I dunno why the hell NJT even bothered giving them those buses, I guess L&G would rather use those EX QSC GMC RTS junk buses, then use those great looking Metro B's. I just don't get that. Coach USA uses there's 3194, 3196, & 3197. I see them on the Central Ave line all the time. Hell they even started using there own buses on that too, those 3200 series Flxs. As for us the only best running Flxs are missing 3186 & 3212 are now declared MIA. Which leave us with only like 5 Flxs left. 3063 which is in the shop with a transmission problem, 3274 which is a great running bus, but is in maitenance as well. 3109, 3111, 3261, 3213 & 3017 which is absolute junk. Whenever I see Flxibles going back there, I can only hope that they will come back out to the floor.
Goodnight
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
3187 and 3200 where used before when it was at L&G. But not alot,Most likely when they would use them is on Weekends
Really, in all my times being on those lines, I always see novas or atleast one Metro D. I never have seen the metro b's on there route, I don't even recall seeing fareboxes on any of these buses.
Tony M.
Dammit man! Are they trying to kill ALL of them?
Most likely! Hey buy one Fred!
Tony M.
I wish. Blacksburg may be retiring its Metro Bs...right in my backyard, but only funds will tell. Maybe a miracle from God...
-F.
So that's where 3026 ended up at. I thought that this bus was hiding out on some South Jersey route like the 455. Maybe that explains the sighting of 3077 at Newton Avenue.
Also, I always thought that NJT should have sent some 3500's down south. We need them on the 400, 403, 406, 412 lines instead of ruining the MCI's on these hard routes.
Now my next question is this, Why are the Newton Ave routes to Philly, except the 409 and 317 are exact fare, and the Washington Twp routes do not require exact fare? Aren't the drivers on these routes just as vulnerable to robbery as the Newton Ave drivers? The change over to exact fare on the Newton Ave routes happened after a driver on the 413 was shot. One of my friends who drove the 400 was robbed at knifepoint on his route, now he drives for SEPTA (what a bizarre twist, mostly the SEPTA drivers want to drive for NJT).
I see; did you hear about the poor 1700 that got killed last week? What a pity!
-F.
I know Fred, it is a damn shame! They should have preserved that bus for a museum atleast.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
By the way does anybody know if bus 3000 is still around, That should definately be preserved. I have not seen that bus in years.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
I agree that was the 1st NJT bus I ever drove.
Troy
Fairview Garage
What vintage? Also, what # was the first NJT 1983 Flx?
-F.
I believe it would be bus number 1300, that was the 1st Flxible Metro A. IT was assigned to Greenville garage, where it layed and died!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Bloody shame. Literally. And yes, it should have been a museum piece.
-F.
There was numerous Grumman/FLX vehicles, possibly the ones from MABSTOA and ex-TA there since NJT was in the process of dumping them last year IIRC. One or two of them had the yellow markers adjacent to the end route signs. I didn't see the front of the bus, I could only see the back protruding from the baler. The machine was more of fascination to me than the bus alone.
How can you say that! The Flxible is the best bus ever made in my opinion. Everything about them was great. But once again it is sad to see them go.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
I was always into heavy machinery, fascinated with cranes, garbage trucks and rail. I fondly remember riding Blitz rebuild with Su-Trak Air conditioning, green Mabstoa 6400s with no air and those two speed transmissions. Never liked the new stuff, and the New Look Flxes were cheap imitations of the fishbowls. I live in Bee Line territory and see 870 imitations on a day to day. I was more in awe as to how TA runs their buses right to the junkyard. NIMCOs has an impressive turnaround, and they do sell buses whole for RVs and parts for others on their site. I'd hate to see how much they are asking for a used ride.
Hey now...you're stepping on my shoes here! Flx New Looks were NOT cheap imitation Fishbowls...in fact, they used heavy-duty transit parts across the board, as opposed to the light-duty pieces on the 30-foot GMs. And Flxible Metros were NOT 870 imitations...they were in fact an evolution of the original design, with much welcomed improvements. Why would you say things like that about Flxes?
-F.
Look at the triangular windshield panels on a NEW Look Flx and you see feeble competition to GM when it came to building buses. The FLX New Looks from the 1977 fleet at NYCT lasted 12 to 13 years while non Blitz GMs like 8373 were scrapped in around 1989, putting almost 20 years on some. The 6100s that old Fifth Avenue ran had over 15 years on them. GM built durable buses until the Advanced Design crap came out. The 870 or its newer lookalikes are all the same to me, I don't pay attention anymore, except when I happen to pass a NYBS klunker on the road, I wouldn't mind getting one for the TMNY, except I have enough to work on there on my spare time.
What exactly is TMNY? I have never heard of that organization but would like to hear about it.
And as far as the comments on the Flx new Look and the 870 et al, I just can't agree with you on either point. It just goes against every grain in my body.
-F.
Trolley Museum of NY doesn't own any buses like other museums do. The last trip I took to Kennebunkport, I found they own and run an ex MSBA bus to pick up passengers bound for the museum. Since we don't have enough volunteers at the museum to justify another set of tools, parts and trips, we let more than a few buses slip by. We could probably offer a tax writeup as we are non for profit, but as I said it would be another piece collecting dirt and just getting the overhead 600 is long enough a wait.
TMNY
Wow, what a neat site; we have a trolley at our museum but it is very well shot (formerly lived in) and does not even have any trucks. All we have running at the moment are a 1973 Baby Fishbowl, a 1976 40-foot Flxible New Look, and a 1979 Grumman 870, the latter two restored. For more info, check out www.commonwealthcoach.com.
We have had to let a few slip by ourselves, so I understand. But wow...$600.oo? Was that the selling price of a bus from MSBA? And what kind of bus was it?
-f.
Can you tell me the number of that M.S.B.A. bus? Is it our long-gone 20-foot fishbowl EX-1000? I'd love to know what ever happened to that one....
How can a machine of destruction be fascinating? If you're watching "Gone In 60 Seconds", I can see it. But not when a Flx is being killed right in front of you!
-F.
Yes, that's just wrong, though I wouldn't feel too bad about seeing a brand-new M.S.B.A. Orion CNG getting squished :o)
Or an Orion II, for that matter. Hell, squishing one of those would be an aesthetic improvement!
-F.
Oh, those things are total dogs. I think M.S.B.A. has only one or two left for the JFK Flyer, absolute junk.
Why do they even call those things buses? Some "buses" are such turds that you shouldn't even have to get a CDL to drive one, and the Orion II is definitely up there. Yeech.
-F.
This is in response to what 1C/Ballston said,
Im a computer engineering major and I'm taking some pretty hefty courses. I'm not so sure if I would have the time to drive the Shuttle-UM. But later on down the line, I'd be interested in learning about the way the signs are programmed.
Here is the roster for Shuttle-UM(as described in Bus world magazine Volume 13,Number 3-Spring 1991-for which i own)
30-41 Flixible Metro 1987
42-49 Flixible Metro 1990
53 Thomas/Minotour 1984
54-66 TurtleTop 1990
61-66 Thomas/Saf-T-Liner
71-74 Blue Bird/MT27 1985
91 Federal/Hurr.Exp 1986
in the magazine, starting salaries begin at $5.25 per hour to $7.85-though it has gone up since.
HEY...are there any pics of their Flxes in there?
-F.
yup-on the cover plus in the magazine itself.
I think I have that issue around someplace. If I remember, they had bus 39 on the front cover. The brake peadals on 36-41 were so stiff, you really had to push them down to stop and the buses themselves shook violently when they were idling. 41 had to be pulled off the road for awhile because it was deemed too unsafe because on top of the brakes, it didn't accelarate well at all and 36 for a time could only be started by flipping the switch in the engine compartment. It need to have the transmission and engine overhauled so that it was street worthy again. It never was that great even when it came back to service.
What was wrong with the brakes? Were they not bled or properly seated at the factory?
I'm not sure what was really wrong with the brakes, the pedals were just so tight that you had to really press on them to get the brakes to engage. If it was just one bus, I'd say maintenance could have looked at it, but since 5, those particular crappy 5, then it must have been something with that batch. The Detroits had nice soft feeling brakes where you just have to tap them gently and they'd do their job.
Hmm...I see. So powertrain combo had something to do with brake performance?
-F.
Its very possible because when they were idling, it was a very rough idle. I've been on a bunch of the WMATA Cummins and they seem to have that rattle as they are idling as well. One of the worst was 9365. I thought I was going to lose my teeth one day on that thing.
What vintage are the 9300s? And are they L-10 (nee ISL) powered? I rode 9813 once, which supposedly has that engine, but I swear it sounded more like a Series 50 than an ISL, which sounds much smoother, at least in our 2001 Gilligs.
-F.
These are 1990 vintage. The first one I saw of that brood was 9368, and of Landover's 9300's, 9365 was the last. That vibrating was mostly cured, when they got rehabbed, especially the ones in the new paint scheme. The 9400s, 9700s and 9800s also vibrated when idling. Of course all had Cummins engines. 9400s and 9700s had L-10s and the 9800s had a combo of M11s 9801-9820? and C8.3 9821-9835?. I am not sure where the break happen between M11 and C8.3.
Very nice. Color photo of the full bus on the front?
-F.
Definitely when things lighten up in your schedule you can look into it. Its hard freshman year to do school and have a job, as well. It was tough for me to balance the two, but I managed. With Shuttle UM, you have to work at least 14 hours per week, at least that's what the rules were 8 years ago.
On their website, the starting salary they list is $8.50/hr. Not bad for an on campus job. I think its the highest paying campus job they have. THe people I worked with were really good, it was like being in a fraternity, only better.
I used to love driving Tuesday night Circuits when the sororities had their rush going. I'd have a bus full of those bimbos.
i'm not so sure about lightening up classes, because any engineering major equires a lot of credit hours, but I'll look into driving shuttle-UM later on down the road.
I was in Mobile,Alabama in 1990-while there i had a chance to ride on Orion I,and RTS buses. The only had about 17 runs. Im trying to find out more information about the service, in terms of schedules, routes, bus models, etc. Any information would be well worth it.
BLX was at this station (twice this week) at the foot of the original Nathan's. Next week major rehabilitation going on at this subway el structure. The place clearly is falling apart. Paint peeling big time, water leaking inside the ramp areas (street, incline to token booth, up ramp, up stairs to el), exposed wiring, cement crumbling. Horrible. Inside the ramp area it smells musty, damp and dirty. Well, BLX was handing out 'service change' pamphlets on this change effective 9-8-02. No F, No Q, only the W, for 2+ years. The best part of this asignment was being at Surf & Stillwell and getting a knish at Nathan's (930am). My co-worker had a hot dog, those famous fries and lemonade (at 9am!). There was nowhere else within a block to get some food. Everything there is for Coney Island. No Mickey D's, No Burger King, no Dunkin Donuts. Nothing for breakfast. Anyway, when was the last time you were to the Coney Island area??
i am there about three times a month. cyclones games and nathans!!!!!!!
The last time I was over there was January of 1999. I had worked Neptune on the F one morning. After work I wanted to get a hot dog at Nathan's. I forgot it's expensive! I took a walk around the deserted area south of serf and walked east a few blocks. Most places were closed. There was an arcade open that was deserted except for a few working there. During the summer there are a few places that sell the usual franks/burgers/gyros/fries. But in the winter, forgetaboutit. Once upon a time there was a hambuger place at Surf and W15 St or W16 St that sold "kosher burgers". That was a few years ago. I doubt if it's still there. I remember not wanting to walk down there. Maybe I'm wrong about the neighborhood. But I didn't think it was too safe. I think there is a deli around Stillwell and Mermaid or Neptune. Maybe a block west of the intersection. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me there wasn't.
Not like Shea or Yankee Stadium where you get just 1 for $4-$4.50.
I was there on July 6th for a Brooklyn Cyclone vs SI Yankee Game and for Nathans where it's $2.25 a dog. Next day I went to SI to see the rematch. Each team won at their respective ballparks. I remember riding R68 2830 on the Q going there and 2813 going back.
And yes Stillwell Ave is and was a complete mess. I sure hope it'll be back sooner and better than the original. At least now I'll have a purpose of riding the W-BUT LOCAL. I bet that was the reason for the 3 D Type trips to CI this summer: Last looks at Old Stillwell.
I wish the X27 X28 X29 would do weekend service while the station is being rehabbed. Anyone agree? That would be awesome-A Cruiser to CI.
#2752 W West End Local
#2830 Q Brighton Local
#2778 X27
I thought it was reported that the X27 and X28 start weekend service this Sunday. Now it all makes sense because that's how they would have pulled down state money for it. The X29 can't fill half a bus at 5:45 in the evening. Weekends will not happen for that route.
The X27 and X28 DO start weekend service this Sunday (September 8).
David
When was the last time I was there?
Well, besides two days ago, the last time I was down there was about 6 months ago...at that time, just like two days ago, there was few people around...
Cleanairbus
My son and I were there on August 25th....did the Nostalgia Train and had a two hour layover at Coney Island. Did some go-karts, batting cages, and just explored the area. I agree about the condition of the Stillwell terminal. It's really an embarrassment to the system, and I'm glad to see that it's getting the major overhaul it needs.
BTW, there actually is a McDonald's at Coney Island. From where you were, near Nathan's, if you walk straight to the boardwalk, and then turn left, you will find a McDonald's just a short distance ahead on the boardwalk. It's not your typical McD's....it's a walk-up stand with a few outdoor tables, no indoor seating. I'm not sure if they serve breakfast there, as it was around lunch time when we walked past it, but if you do find yourself in that area again and in need of some breakfast, it might be worth checking into.
I was just over there 3 days ago, by the post at Surf and Stillwell. Thank God Transit is finally investing money to fix up Stillwell terminal. The place looks like it needs to be completely torn down.
BTW, I almost picked Surf and Stillwell for my permanent post for the Winter pick, with Mon & Tues RDO. However, I decided to take a schedule I couldn't resist, a 12-8 piece at Rockaway and Hegeman, Sun & Sat RDO instead.
BIG AL
Maybe Ill stop by and visit at the location. Lets see if u remember my face.......
Courtesy and deportment forbid foul language on message boards. However, the brochure for the closure of 3 stations (Neptune, W8, Ocean Parkway) suggests the use of the F-bus. I recall riding an F-bus from Berkely to San Francisco, and I believe the F-car (now the F-bus) served New Haven and Branford, Connecticut. Do we have a fourth or fifth F-bus route in the U.S.?
I was around CI taking pics before the station rehab in August.
1. How long the 1984 GM RTS's and 1975 GM New Looks(Ex NYBS)ran with Command?
2.What was the 1st line to have a OrionV CNG #4932?
3.Can't they use TMC RTS Suburbans on the Express Lines on Satuardays?
Command has RTS & Orion CNGs. Some of the RTS CGN's were always nycDOT, some came from the TA.
Triboro & Queens Surface also have a CNG fleet.
1)The New Looks and the 1984 GMC RTS were used until the TMC RTS were all in service in 1994. When they first came in they had many problems and it took a long time to get them running. They would always stall out and there many breakdowns with the TMC RTS.
2)4932 ran on the BM2 when it first came in.
3)I have seen TMCs used on Saturdays. They use the newest buses because they have less mileage and because they are more reliable than the TMCs. The reason why you hardly see Classics anymore on the weekend is because they want to use wheelchair buses on all runs so they dont have to worry about wheelchair reservations on the weekend.
Peace,
Kevin
Boarded ENY's 8117 at Pennsylvania and Atlantic Avs. There were three people on the bus. Did not pick up anyone along the Liberty Ave section. The signs along Liberty Ave are gone, the only remnants of the B40 after Saturday will be the section of tan/gray concrete used to indicate a bus stop. Ditto for the bus stop signs along ENY Ave and St.Johns Pl. The only B40 signs were along Bway after Woodhull Hospital. We did pick up people along the Ralph Ave portion, especially by Fulton Street. Got off 8117 at Lorimer Street to photograph the B40 guide a ride and stop sign. Got on B46 #8329 shortly after. Rode this bus to Willy B Plaza. I took some more pictures then stopped as I was appraoched by a dispatcher. After that I did railfanning on the M line. Farewell B40.
B20#5208
B40#8117(Farewell)
B46#8329
PS# I wanted to get a pic of a B40 bus sign that mistakenly said Van Siclen Ave instead of Van Sinderen but it was gone.
Hey since football season is FINALLY back, anyone knows what model bus does John Madden travel in and is it his personal bus or a lease job.
Gonzo
I think it is a MCI J4500, but not 100% sure.
Not a J, it's an older E - and a new E is under sonstruction. You can see it chronicled at the MCI website:
The new Maddencruiser - A Work in Progress
They are his coacnes and he hired the drivers away from Greyhound (who built the original Maddencruiser from a 102A3 conversion shell with Greyhound paint 15 years ago).
OOPS!! Thought I saw a J Series when I looked at a videotape about buses. Of course I haven't looked at it in a while.
Does anyone have any inside info on any new WMATA bus garages that are in either the planning stages or about to be built. I already know about the Western bus garage about to be rebuilt. Southeast and I hear that Arlington need to be replaced.
I've reviewed the Summer 2002 M2 schedule and discovered that limited stop service isn't so fast. Looking at the Saturday schedule, the
9:17 am local bus from Wash Hts arrives East Village at 10:35 am, running time of 1:18. Limited stop service begins at 9:32 am and that bus arrives at East Village at 10:40 am, a running time of 1:08. Limited stop is only 10 minutes faster.
The last limited stop leaves Wash Hts at 5:32 pm and arrives East Village at 6:47 pm, running time of 1:15. The first local leaves Wash Hts at 5:37 pm, arrivng East Village at 6:57, running time of 1:20. The limited stop is only 5 minutes faster.
Is it worthwhile to run limited stop service?
Michael
Washington, DC
[Is it worthwhile to run limited stop service?]
The timetable generally assumes optimum traffic conditions. If there are traffic problems or other reasons the buses are off-schedule, the limiteds may make it more or less than 10 minutes faster. Also, for people making short trips between major stops, knowing your bus will not stop every two blocks is psychologically refreshing. Plus, the subway sytem has New Yorkers thinking express (e.i., limited bus) is much faster than local (i.e., local bus). If you check out local vs. express subway timetables, you will also find the time saved by express trains is not that great. Yet, try taking away express trains from New Yorkers, and they'll scream and yell.
yeah no kidding.the 'local' train is the same as a 'limited' bus route.the train 'local' train makes stops that are 5-10 blocks at the most between each other.yet people dont think it that way.-shrugs shoulders- what can we do about it? there's no way to change the way NYer's think they know how the subway is.
The 5, 6, and 7 express trains save time that their local counterparts
Would you take a local 6 train over an express 6 train to Parkchester?
It's different. You have to remember subways don't face the different stuff buses do. So comparing both concepts is a waste of time.
[Would you take a local 6 train over an express 6 train to Parkchester?]
According to the #6 timetable on the mta web site, the # 6 express gets to Parkchester from Brooklyn Bridge only 1 to 4 minutes faster than the local. So at most, for the 50 minute trip you can save 4 minutes. I don't think that's such a big deal. Moreover, if the local shows up first, your odds are much better to take it rather than wait for the express.
According to the schedulr you say..... Take a 6 Express one day and you will see that you WILL blow past at least 3 locals. 3 Locals spaced 3 mins apart equals at least 9 minutes saved.
If you are going really short distances, like from 79th to 86th, the limited doesn't help at all. It is really good for long distances, like 79th to Houston.
>>> Limited stop is only 10 minutes faster. <<<
That amounts to a 12.8% reduction of travel time over the whole route. That looks pretty good to me. At what point is express service worthwhile, 20%, 50%?
Tom
The limited buses are not that much faster. But on the busier lines it doesn't stop every 2 blocks to pick up people.
Bx12 (sometimes) and Bx41 LIMITED save plenty of time (well the Bx41 does anyway), so I say that other buses like the Bx22 needs LIMITED buses (Bedford Park) everyone is getting on at every stop, missing every light. There needs to be a limited bus.
Who here would take the Bx15 over the Bx55 (or Bx41 LTD) if you could get both and were going from the Hub to Fordham Plaza?
--Bx22 needs LIMITED buses (Bedford Park) everyone is getting on at every stop, missing every light. There needs to be a limited bus. --
YES!!! This is EXACTLY what pisses me off about the BX22 and what makes my commute from science so damn slow. I know a stop plan for a ( hypothetical) BX22LTD : All stops castle hill, all stops Parkchester, Morris Park, Bronxdale, Pelham PKY, Southern BLVD, Fordham PLZ, All stops from Fordham PLZ. This is extremely reasonable as far as meeting everyone's needs, as the stops being skipped are little used. BX22LTD could operate ( times based from w'chester) 6:45AM-9 AM and ( leavin Bedford park terminus) 2:45- 6:45PM. Weekdays only.
How would this sound?
No, run it all day like the Bx12 up until 7:00 when all Bx22 buses go to Bedford Park (until around 9pm)
Sure!!! It won't take me 1 hour to get to skool anymore ( of a supposed 45 Min ride). Interestingly enough, late night BX22's travel extremely fast along the route ( still reasonably loaded). Fordhm CTR to W'Chester took only 17 minutes. It takes that long to get From bedford pk to Fordhm.
Late night Bx22 buses end at Pelham Parkway
I'm not talking about 12 or 1 AM. rather I'm referring to like 11 something. the bus I took left Frodham CTR at 11:03 and made it to W'Chester at 11:21
To one and all on Bus-Talk, may you and yours have a happy, healthy and most importantly, a healthy NEW YEAR
From,
Hart Bus and his family.
WHA?!
Aren't you like 3-4 months to early?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
The Jewish New year always falls aound this time of year, never on Jan. 1st.
Chuck Greene
This year it is 3 days later than the earliest it can be on the Gregorian calendar. The fast next week ends closer to 8 than to 7 (as it does most years) and Chanukah starts in November. Passover will be back at its usual time because it is a leap year.
A thread about how the Jewish calendar was on SubTalk in the past few weeks for those interested. You can search for posts of mine and GP38, we both had a bit to say on that thread.
Oy Vey, Trevor, where you been all these years???
You never heard of Jewish New Year? The Jewish religion does NOT use the Gregorian calendar.
Jewish new year???
Wayne
Same to you
Thank You
You too, have a happy and healthy New Year!
L'Shana Tovah!
Notices for the above changes have been posted on the TA web site under service changes dated 9/6
Thank You
They even got the F Shuttle Bus Schedule up too
They are? I tried downloading PAST the time of this post and the F schedule still said trains were going to CI. Is the name of the schedule download T?CUR the way it has been or has that name changed?
From the SEPTA website:
Attention Route 9 Riders:Due to the continued closure of the 500 block of Chestnut Street for Federal security reasons, effective Sunday, September 8, 2002, eastbound Route 9 buses will begin operating on Market Street between 30th & 4th Streets in lieu of Chestnut Street. Riders may experience some delays as a result of the routing change.
Route 9 buses will stop at all posted bus stops along Market Street and the detour will continue until the 500 block of Chestnut Street is reopened to bus traffic. Westbound routing has not been affected along Walnut Street.
Routes 21 and 42 already come across Chestnut all the way....so SEPTA won't re-route them, but do you think they might change the 38 over to Market too?
And do you think the city will prevail in getting the park service to re-open chestnut?
The 38 has been running straight on Market St (from 15th to 5th)since the reconstruction of Chestnut Street. When the reconstruction was done, the 38 never returned to Chestnut St.
I never have to take the 9 eastbound, only west for the most part. Do you think the average 9 commuter will care?
to clarify---do you think that the average 9 commuter will care about the move to market st?
No. With most of the major Center City destinations on Market Street, the average 9 rider will not particularly care if the bus runs on Market St. The only real delay this bus will encounter is trying to get around the traffic mess at City Hall.
Probably not. Considering the Independence Mall area is under the jurisdiction of the US Dept. of the Interior (National Parks Service), I highly doubt that the city will prevail re: Chestnut St.
Didn't have time to write this up last night as I was so tired from my day off. I had three doctor's appts and since two were up in Silver Spring, I figured it would be more fun to take the metro rather than drive in rush hour traffic on the beltway. Somehow, my girlfriend survived this trek with me, too and she's still talking to me!
Started off on taking the metro from Ballston to Silver Spring. Too tired to note the car numbers, although the Orange was a Breda and the Red was a Rohr.
Got to Silver Spring around 8:40 thinking I'd get the 8:47 Z8 to Colesville Rd. and Lockwood Drive, where my Dr. is. Well, the 8:30 Z2 pulls in at 8:45, so we took that. It was Flx Metro E 4092 with a bike rack. I then had another appt. at 2:30 in downtown Silver Spring, which wasn't originally scheduled, so had a lot of time to kill. Took a Z2 back to Silver Spring, Metro D 9723, again with a bike rack and transferred to the Ride On 5, Gillig 5369 and went out to White Flint. Well, actually to the container store so my g/f could have some fun. Took the 46 back to White Flint from there, Orion V 5589, had lunch at the Cheesecake Factory and got Gillig 5397 on the 5 back to Silver Spring. Once finished there, took the metro back to the Pentagon for the last Dr. appt. in Alexandria. Got on the 8Z headed to Duke St. and Quaker Lane and had Metro B 8781. To get home, we missed the 29K going to King Street, so we took the Alexandria DASH AT8, GIllig 43 to Landmark and took the 25B home from there, Orion V 4210. We both fell asleep on the bus, but I did see 4100, Metro E on the 7W and 4101 on the 28G. Other than that, I was comotose. Finally returned home to Ballston at 6:30PM after starting the trip at 8AM.
Definitely saw a lot of Montgomery Division Flxs with the bike racks. I think just about all of them I saw had them, including 4014, 9381 and 9828. No Orions had them and none of the Northern Division Flxs had them. I didn't realize the 70's used 40 footers so much, I thought it was mainly an artic line during the week, but saw both 9372 and 9373 on them. Also saw a few cutways in the 5100's on the Ride On Dasher, route 28. A couple of those I saw in Rockville were signed "Paratransit" as well. I guess that is for the county's specialized service. There was one filling up at the Texaco on Rockville Pike too.
She's going to go with me on my next exursion when I try the 38B, B11, J4, Green Line to L'Enfant and 5B trip to Tysons Corner. That trip will be more for fun than this and since shopping is included at Tysons, I don't lose too many points!!
I think after all of that, I should have taken the car, but it was fun riding on three Transit Systems.
Wow, what a fun-filled day! I certainly had fun riding a different TA when I was stuck in Detroit a couple weeks ago; in fact, I got to ride the DDOT's new 2002 RTSes, 3830 and 3834 to be exact. I then rode 3738 (not sure what year it was...maybe a 99?) back to the Greyhound depot.
Now if I can just make it over to Blacksburg and find out if the 2600 series Flx Metro Bs are still in service...I have tried contacting the TA and hope to find out soon if they are still running or going up for auction.
-F.
Is the bus in the Gevalia coffee ad a museum bus? What transit system was it used in?
Not sure, but it was a nice-looking New Look. Fishbowl2525, don't you have some info on movie buses like this?
-F.
Damn, I've gotta see this!!!
I take it you haven't seen it. Really neat commercial; a young, urban professional type in a suit steps out of the office, dashes off off a vividly-colored Fishbowl (still in service and in great shape), and runs home to sip his precious coffee. Imagine that.
-F.
Saw 2077 and another ex-Bladensburg Orion 6 running on Four Mile Run routes. It also seems that the Flxibles overall are being fitted with the bike racks first, as I saw 9819(Four Mile Run) and 5175(Landover) with bike racks. No telling when the Orion 5s will be fitted with them.
Think the Flxes will get them all across the board, or just selected ones (i.e. newer fleet members)?
-F.
The 9200's are the lowest/oldest buses to receive bike racks and if the WMATA press release is correct, then the only buses that will not have them will be the MANNs. That remains to be seen.
How old are their MANs, exactly? Older than all the Flxes?
-F.
The 5100-series MAN artics were built in 1983; the first Flxible Metro buses (8700-series) were built in 1986-87.
Ah..the WMATA Flx Metro Bs are the exact same vintage as the 2600s used in Blacksburg. Those are a mix of 102" 35-and 40-footers; were WMATA's all 40-foot 102s, I assume? And what type of powertrain?
-F.
Most of the WMATA Metro-B's are 40 X 102, but it's pretty much a mixed bag.
40 X 102 DD-6V92
40 X 102 Cummins L-10
35 X 102 Cummins L-10
40 X 96 Cummins L-10
30 X 96 DD-6V92
And... I could be wrong, but I thought there are even a small number of 40 X 96 with the DD-6V92.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne!
-F.
This artic has been all over the the city brookyn, queen ,and manhatten. I spotted this bus on the m102 Thursday one Lexington av and 51 st. Where will this bus show up next????????
Kingsbride in the Boogie down bronx
Ain't It at Gunhill? Saw it on the 22 and 12, and had Gunhlii stickers.
LAst time 5509 was at kingsbride.But i remeber it being there.Now 5508 is there
I remember seeing streamers on the buses in service, indicating that new buses were shortly to arrive, or were starting service. WMATA usually used red or blue streamers, with the new looks getting one streamer and the ADBs getting two. I would like to see at least WMATA do that again. The last time the streamers were used was when the 9700s came. I don't know why WMATA stopped using them.
What did these streamers look like? Anyone have pictures?
Thanks
Ditto to that. I've gotta see this. Also, did the AMGs have these? We have no. 7535 at our museum and may look into these if so.
-F.
To be exact, they were more like ribbons. You would see them on the back in the grill of the bus. I wish I had an example, if anyone does please post it.
We are about to relive the pass year this week. Let us remember what we were doing when the first plane hit the first tower. We should all remember the people we lost in those building or the building them self. We all knew the world trade center.
I know this is not bus talk but this is apart of New York of yesterday
Amen to that. I have no objections to this if nobody else here does.
-f.
I saw this Yesterday and it one part a MTA GM RTS pass by the cab they rideing on and it was w/o the Slideing Windows so it was a 1981 RTS and I think the # of that was #PA1210 and it had a Old Cigratte Add on the side
Most people here know that NYCT tested two suburban style buses back in the 90s, MCI 81994 and Neoplan Metroliner 81993. The MCI is now in regular service. My question is if the Metroliner was sent back to Neoplan, what was the reason for the MTA's dissatisfaction? Thanks.
That's right, on Sept. 9, at 10:00AM, I'm going to test the new B13. The reason I'm not doing this on Sept. 8 is because the B13 is 30 minutes per bus on Sundays, and I'm not waiting that long. Plus Sundays seems it have easier traffic, and there's no school. I want the new B13 to prove itself to me on a busy day. So if you happen to be riding the B13 that day, and see someone hidden in the back of the bus with a note pad(writing the info), then that's me.
BTW, its midnight which officialy makes it the last day of the B18.
B13- RTS #9164
why don`t you give it a couple of weeks before you teast it out . tomorrow may not be the best day to ride it.
I focus more on the B13, than other route. I support the B13 to the fullest, its the only thing that makes me glad that I'm living close to FP. I consider the B13 to be a part of me, and I must watch over it. That's why I'm wasting no time with my trip, I have to know how it is. I don't expect everything from the new B13 on its first weekday, this testing is like a way of getting to know what its going to be like for now on. I'll try not to blame B/O's if there are any problems, since they still need more time to get use to the new path/schudule I'll still write down the all facts during the new path.
I posted a scan of the aforementioned map at http://members.tripod.com/boarshevik/1940surface
It might take a while to download (for dial-up users), but the detail is worth it.
NOTE: The URL is temporary until I get webspace for boarshevik.com fully up.
Excellent scan. Thank you for sharing this. "Awesome", as the younger generation would say today.
What's amazing is that so many routes, except for the one-way avenue patterns in Manhattan, are basically unchanged and in many cases still using the same route # (albeit now all with the "M" prefix).
Of course, instead of four separate operating entities (remember that 5th Ave. Coach/NYC Omninus, and Comprehensive/E Side Omnibus each represented common ownerships), we now have one operating entity fully integrated with the subways (which in 1940 were morphing for three separate entities to one).
Again, thank you and an excellent piece of history.
And what type of buses will Jackie Gleason get & which depot(s) will they come from.
If they get anything, they'll get RTSs.
4.2 billion, and they'll come from NASA.
-Hank
Perhaps Onion 7 CNG'S? Any word of the whereabouts of 7560?
#7560 B61
Busfan, I myself answered your question TWICE already. For the third and last time:
Nothing is set in stone, however, it is LIKELY that JG will get ENY's displaced RTS's for JG service. The RTS's will be intermixed with the CNG LF's, so it's possible to see CNG LF's in B8 service.
Well aren't they supposed to be going out today?
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
I would hope so, seeing that the service from JG beings in less than 12 hours. But with DOB, who knows.
from what i understand all buse will come with 7 wheels. 2 on the front axle, 4 on the rear axle , and a steering wheel!!!!!!!
I think thats whats JG supposed to be getting, Most of those types most likely will be coming from ENY.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
Knock knock. Whose there. STUPID, LAZY, LOSER, TROLL!!!!!! Heeerrrreeee trollly troooolllllyy, trolly, trolly!!!!!!!!!! Busfan is a loser TROLL!!!!!!
In case you have'nt figured out that your posts annoy the hell out of this board, I'm saying it now: STOP!!!. If you have NOTHING to contribute, don't post!!!
Haven't we went through this about a thousand times already??? I want to know as much as you but common sense would tell you that maybe ENY is giving the buses to JG.
Okay, this will definitely bring some of you back. I remember in 1986 when two projects were occuring at the same time....Liberty Av and HILLSIDE AV. That was a fun time. Living on 169th St (two blocks north of Hillside Av) was a nightmare. The Q4, Q4A, Q5, Q5A, Q5AB, and Q42 were rerouted as Hillside Av was under construction from Merrick Blvd (166th St) to about 188th St. One side of Hillside was serving two way traffic. Also Main St was also under construction with one side servng two way traffic. I'm not going to list ALL the reroutes but it was a nightmare trying to cross Hillside Av...WHEW! More flashbacks later...ENJOY!
I was traveling to Riverhead from Southampton and I noticed the following buses on the S92, S58, 8A, 10A and 10D. Riverhead is getting bigger and better. New stores in new places and new roads and projects. It should be knpwn that when Long Island does a construction project....THEY GET IT DONE! Compared to the city where you have to wait about 3 months or so!
#9606-9607 - S92
#9901 - S58
#9726 - 10D
#9731 - 8A
#9702 - 8A (On 9/5/02)
Enjoy!
Now if only I could easily get there with mass transit.
LIRR runs right by the huge Tanger complex. They should put a station there and have more service.
Now if only I could easily get there with mass transit.
LIRR runs right by the huge Tanger complex. They should put a station there and have more service.
I think a station at the Outlet Center would be a great idea. As mentioned, the tracks run right next to the complex. The station could even have a bus hub added to it in the same location as a lot of buses do run to the center. In addition, they should run a normal service on that line between Riverhead and Ronkonkoma, instead of the joke of service they run there now - one or two trains in each direction.
I believe Medford, Yaphank, Riverhead, and the suggested Outlet Center station would do very well if they ran more trains through there. The reason those stations don't get many passengers is because they hardly run any trains through there and it is very inconvenient to use.
Well, that's true! Bus routes S58, S62 and 8A run right by the Mall. I think they should have some service over there but it's the MTA "Not always going your way" LOL!
So very true, I would wander out into Riverhead and such on weekends. The only thing stopping me is the risk of missing the train. I'll have to camp out till the morning, and then deal with parents who won't let me out of the house for like the rest of my life.
Clayton,
There is one train that goes through Riverhead. The train goes westbound in the morning and comes back in the afternoon. Then again in the afternoon to NYC and in the evening. I do not know the exact times for all.
I'm aware..that's why I said. One chance to get that 6:56 to KO xfer to Penn. If I miss it, I'll be camping out.
. It should be knpwn that when Long Island does a construction project....THEY GET IT DONE!
But of course there is no governmental public works entity called "Long Island", unless you mean the Hauppauge (Region 10) Office of the New York State Department of Transportation. Besides that, the road agencies in Riverhead are the Suffolk County Department of Public Works and the Town of Riverhead, whatever "public works" agency they have.
I wouldn't say that all Long Island area agencies are as "can-do" as you say. Right now Nassau County has fallen and it can't get up.
:-) Andrew
Last night I saw 4589 with Jamaica Stickers on the Q31. Is QV receiving RTS from Jamaica or was this a borrowed bus? I assume it's the latter b/c they received Onions from CS as well.
#4589 Q31
#512 Q46
Today I saw GMC-RTS #4329 on Bx28 & i look up @ Glenn's Bus Roster say is Unknown Loction & is scrap but the bus is not scrap & is running ok.
David J
Did CS send over any relish with those Onions?
:-)
G1RD
Yep along with some hot dogs, mustard, ketchup and some sauerkraut.
;)
#4589 Q31
The other night, I saw one of the ex-MTA fishbowls in service coming out of the Battery Tunnel, transporting the Jewish people home. (Sorry if I am not politically correct in my saying - no offense to anyone.) This fishbowl was not a Blitz, was used previously by NYPD Highway Patrol as you could plainly see the imprint from the stickers.
Also, this bus was in the all blue paint scheme like the older police car schemes, not the present white one. It did have the A/C unit in the rear above the rear window.
Does anyone know what bus this was and the history around this bus?
IIRC, they are Blitzes and are still used by the NYPD for tactical force units; they also have some 9000-series Flxes in their fleet.
-F.
I wonder if this isn't possibly Triboro Coach #743, the one that was recently replaced by an RTS!
My thought exactly Karl. As has been posted on the board previously it could be a bus that transports the religious Jews from Boro Park to B&N (?)Photo in the city. According to Trevor they used to have ex-TCC #744.
I was fortunate to once photo #743 at Highway District 3 on the GCP. The bus was labeled Highway District # 3 and assigned fleet # 3301. Also painted below the front window in "pin-striping' type script was the words "Big Ken" in honor of the officer who obtained the bus from TCC, got the title tranferred and drove the bus. The original interior seats had been remonved and replaced with suburban type (all front facing) seats. However the rear door and step-well was still there and covered up and extra seats put in place.
Hope this info helps you identify the bus if you see it again.
L'Shana Tovah Alan! My hope is this year be better than last year.
Hopefully, someone on this board will be able to positively identify this bus. Except for NYBS, GM Fishbowls are a dying breed, and it's nice to keep track of the ones still in existence. You seem to know more about that bus than I, although I never stopped the car to take a good look at it.
Amen to that. It's always a pleasure to see Fishbowls. I have not physically seen any in regular service ANYWHERE since around 1987. I had the pleasure of riding some 5307s in Colonial Williamsburg around that time; they were all grey and had PA systems on them, along with funky blue and gold seats. Oh yes, and I rode a Flx Metro for the first time there, swearing up and down it was a Grumman. Hey, I was 10 years old, what did I know? Also, they had some gas-powered 1969 model 3301s there as well. Weird little buses indeed!
One weird observation there; for those of you who may remember the Metro prototypes with the awful square fender flares as opposed to the usual round, there was one actually in service there. It was terrible; it looked like it was designed on an Atari 2600. Yeech.
-F.
I actually stopped twice. Once was on my way into Bus Fest '99 at about 8:30 AM when there was almost no one there that Su.nday. The second time, I stopped on a Wed. morning to confirm the serial number, etc. That time I was in a suit and tie, brought my album with that bus's pictures and asked the police there in very polite tones.
Of course both visits were pre 9/11/01. I'm sure security is at a much higher level and taking pictures is probably a no-no
Whoa...so Triboro ran a Fishbowl through this year? Awesome!
-F.
What an interesting week this has been. Elton John was in town this week and I just had to go, so I hopped on the bus to go to the bank and then get tickets. I lucked out and got the very last two in the building!
From the Civic Center, I hopped onto the Downtown Express, where I got to ride a Thomas SLF for a change. One of my driver buddies was on board that day, and I told him about the tickets. As we went along, he got on the PA and announced Sir Elton's arrival, followed by a really bad ad lib rendition of "Candle In The Wind". I laughed all the way to the end of the line!
On to the night of the concert. After coaxing my friend to park at a garage and ride the free shuttle, he finally said "OK, what the hell". I tried to get us onto a 91 model with the 6V92, but it was not loading yet, so we settled for Gillig no. 9404 with a Series 50 engine.
When we got there, it turned out our seats were no. 2611 and 2612, which struck me as interesting as these are fleet nos. of the 40-foot Flx Metros in nearby Blacksburg. Even better, my seat was next to a GORGEOUS brunette who immediately struck up conversation with me once the show started and mesmorized me all the way. Her number? 2613...giving her two things in common with a Blacksburg Flx, the number AND the good looks!
On a side note: Elton's second song in the set was "Bennie And The Jets", my favorite tune of his. I was quite elated that he played it right away!). He also did a 9/11 tribute from his latest album, along with the classic hits. EXCELLENT concert overall.
On the way back, the shuttle stops were slammed like a Russian bread line. We fought like hell to catch a bus, and it took 3 or 4 tries to do so, but we finally got on there. In the meantime, my friend kept saying "This is bull$#!+" and "We should have just drove in", and told me of a concert experience in Atlanta, where MARTA provided a much more efficient shuttle. With that, I reminded him that Roanoke is much smaller, and with a 40-bus fleet of 35-footers, this is simply the best they can do. When our bus finally got there, it tunred out to be 9404...the very one we rode in on!
Finally, when I got on the Route 92 to get Downtown today, guess which one rolls up? 9404...the Elton John bus! What are the odds?
Hope I didn't bore you all with this, but I just felt I had to share it. What a week this was!
-F.
Had a chance to ride the Q58 and B57 yestrday. Both buses i wound up getting on weer brand new NOVABUS series. Most of the buses i saw running on the Q58,Q59 and B57 were 9100's,5000's,9500's and only one or two 4700's and 4800's(i did see #4891 and got passed by #4705)-i dont get why Ulmer Park doesnt get #4875-#4899 and run them. It would make better sense.
Q58-#9588-NOVABUS
B57-#9587-NOVABUS
Si I assume that Jackie Gleason Depot is getting buses from East New York Depot.
126 now have 7000 Series Soft Seat RTS's. So far I saw 7038,7044,and 7045 on the M15 at 126 with 126 stickers. I wounder why 126 would get them? Would make sence to send it to QV or FLA.
QV is getting rid of their 7000s. 7004 has been scrapped already and 3 others are on their way out: 7021 7023 and 7029.
I've seen 7041 7042 7044 and 7045 on the M31/M57.
I say send them back to UP rather than 126 St. They're desperate for some buses on their local lines. However so is Stengel but all they have are Onions for their local routes.
#7040 M57
#273 Q32
Any particular reason why they're being scrapped?
The 7000's/7500s were rebuilt to extend their life - by how much, though?
BTW: GMC-RTS #7004 are not scrapped & the only scrapped is driver seat & the rest are not also most of 7000s didn't used the service this past summer. Last Tuesday when i was doing Bus Eveness @ Hillside Ave/France Lewis Ave on Q43 bus & saw most of 7000s running on Q1,36 & Q43 line.
David J.
I wish JAM could get a few of those. Sure be nice to see one of those on the Q5 as opposed to the crappy 9000's.
add 7039 and 7041. Both running on the M57 today.
Was there ever an Orion III or IV? If not, is there any reason for why the designations were skipped?
The Orion III is the former Crown Ikarus articulated and is found I think in Canada...
The Orion VI is a people mover on wheels that is only found in the Niagara Falls region and used exclusively over in that region...
Anyone correct me if I am wrong...
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Orions all over!"
Sounds about right to me.
My memory is fuzzy on the IV, but the III as I recall was this futuristic looking tractor-trailer bus design that looked like two RTS slopebacks joined at their ends. Really neat looking, actually.
-F.
That's correct...basically shaped like a rolling meat loaf with windows.
There were power units and trailers that matched in appearance.
The only ones made were for the Niagara Falls park sightseeignoperation.
Are they still in service at NF? Also, I understand most of our retired Grumman 870s made it up there. Have you ever seen any 35-footers with bright red seats running around there?
-f.
When I drove in to work this morning, there was a very familiar but welcome visitor down at the Peconic River waterfront, the WLNG Promotional Bus. She is a 1978 35 foot non slopeback RTS aka Mobile Unit # 7. The left side is covered with what I call "vinyl advertising" while the right side is not. The exterior was spotless.
It seems that these late model RTS buses do not have back up lights, that lamp is the brake light while the one next to it is the tailight. No modifications were made to the exterior since the last time I saw it. I'm sure she'll be back next year.
WOW...please tell me you got photos! Say, isn't that the station that also has a 1980 or so RTS that was custom-cut into a 30-footer?
Or am I thinking of another staton altogether?
-F.
Sorry to say but I don't have photos, but don't worry, she will be back. She was parked in the same place as last year. When I first saw this bus, I thought it was a 30 footer myself. From a distance, I thought she was a newer Nova bus! This bus has bone stock destination signs on the front and right side.
I see; I swear I have seen a 30-foot RTS from a radio station that was custom cut though, and it was listed that the bus was a 30. Hmm.
-f.
Well, that's entirely possible since the interior is custom.
There are photos on the station's website. You can click on the links below.
One Of WLNG's Buses
Another Of WLNG's Buses
Yeah, those are definitely 35-footers. I swear I've seen a 30-foot listed as a 1978 RTS at another station site though. That black one with the red is a really sweet bus!
-F.
Ironic because WLNG and all the east end FM stations are coming in here in Nassau county. What a breath of fresh air compared to the NYC stations!
Do they still do a good mix of oldies and newer stuff? I like a station that can do that. In fact, we have a station here (Magic 104.9 FM) that is like that, only they are playing WAY too many 90's hits lately. I prefer the 70s and 80s tunes that they play, which was what they started out with. Before that, they were a true oldies station, which played 50s and 60s tunes.
We no longer have a station like that anymore, and I hope the same does not happen with 70s and 80s stations. It's like history repeats itself; the 50s and 60s have been replaced with 70s and 80s, and those are on the way to being replaced with 90s and 2000s. I just hope transit museums don't ever begin to follow that logic.
-f.
The back up light on older RTSes is below the license plate - it's a thin white strip light. It was not moved into the main cluster until after the 04 series was introduced.
Weird. I thought all series had them in the taillight pods. It sure is weird to still see chrome taillight bezels on the back of a new bus to this day, but it is a great sight. The regular taillight clusters on the RTS remind me of those on the Porsche 928.
-F.
Its Midnight and the B18 is dead, along with the B78 and B40. Tommorow morning, I'm going to see the B13 bus destination sign say:
B13 Williamsburg
. . . Graham Av.
Why exactly were these routes dropped?
for passenger convience it looks like.now people dont have to make any transfers to get to where they're going anymore.
And also the Q46 Glen Oaks Branch is now Weekdays only. all Q46 Buses now run to LIJ today
Ouch! Sounds like the TA is cutting back a lot there...where exactly did all the now-defunct routes run through?
-F.
Well the B18 at northern part of the route ran through an industrial area. At the southern end, it ran through a cemetary. The only live action was on the Wyckoff Ave portion, IMO.
It have been mostly about the Bklyn bus changes on this board:):), but what about these:
Bronx: The Bx1,2, and 41 changes.
Queens: Q27 and Q46
SI: S84
Express: X27 and X28
How you guys that live these areas feel about them? I would especially like to hear about the Bronx changes.
What happened to the X27 and 28?
Weekend service started today on the X27 and X28.
David
How is weekend service necessary for these routes? I mean as part of the planned cutbacks of 1996, the X27, 28, and 29 were to be eliminated from service entirely and the riders would be instructed to use the subways. Now they've been extended to weekend service? What's wrong with the subways???? Do a lot of people really pay double-fare just to take a bus instead of a train into the city?
It was the 1991 "Blue Book" cutbacks, not the 1995 series (there was no 1996 series). The X27, X28, and X29 weren't to be eliminated -- that was a fiction perpetrated to put public pressure on NYCT(A) to keep the routes. What was to happen was, they were to be turned over to one or more private operators. Friday afternoon, you come home on a bus with a blue stripe. Monday morning, you go to work on a bus with a yellow/green/red/whatever stripe.
As to the reason for weekend service on the X27 and X28, it's being touted as a way for people inconvenienced due to Stillwell Terminal reconstruction to get to Manhattan.
Fire away...
David
Why are you complaining about they extend it into the Weekends? If I live along Shore Road I would rather take the X27 then the B16 to R Train into Manhattan. And also it takes over 1 Hour and 15 Minutes to get into Downtown on the R vs 45-50 Minutes on the X27 and also the X27 would just give me a one seat ride into Manhattan.(I don't live by the X27 I just useing it as a Example)
re: the Q27 and 46
The 27 change is a good thing since it saves Queensborough Students a half mile walk (did that walk several years ago). Most of the campus buildings are toward the north end. May be the difference between being on-time or late for a class.
As for the 46, while i couldnt say whether the change is positive or negative, i can just sense that it makes sense. There is substanially more traffic to LIJ. Perhaps if there is a demonstrated need for 260 branch service, they can make evry 2nd or 3rd LIJ bus (or whoever is a runoff at LIJ) make a left on Little Neck, hang a right on 260, back to Union and make a left down to LIJ. Maybe a compromise in the future
What were the Bronx and SI changes?
The Bronx Bx 1 and 2 is a mystery to me . The only thing i see is maybe because it may be possible for a dispatcher to change buses around to possibly ( yea right ) regulate concourse service for those buses delayed on their southbound trips .
The TA is probably getting more productivity and seat time without additional pay for the operators.
Just found a 35-foot Flx Metro "A" for sale on eBay. It is a 1983 model (first year for the Metro) and features the NYCTA-style smooth windows with oval standees. It is listed as a "Flexible Bus" (of course) and was started out as a motorhome conversion, so it has no seats except for a Peterbilt seat behind the driver(!). Oh yes, and it is titled as a "motorhomem".
I am in no way connected with the seller, just passing this along. And 35-footers sure are a rare find..anyone know where it's from? The guy is selling it down in Florida.
-F.
Oh yes, and more notes on the coach. It is lift-equipped, 6V92-powered, and is haphazardly listed as a "33-foot bus".
-F.
Today in the city, I had the time to see a few X27/X28 buses go by me.
Let me tell you that some had like only 3 people, and the most I saw was like 8-10.
Sunday is always light, even the X1/X10 are not nearly packed, but they usually have 25+ people on them on Sundays.
It's the 1st day of new service.......relax
Give it time. The X27/X28 would be 25 + Passengers in a few weeks
It also depends on where you observed the buses. If you saw these passenger loads near the start of the route, that could account for the small amount of passnegers.
Saw a 40' Fishbowl in the NYBS scheme, fleet no. 1313. It's in the psuedo-Greyhound colors and currently going for $1000. Is this a real deal? It is being sold in Hartford, CT and listed as a "Speed" bus that will "fulfill your Sandra Bullock dreams".
Oh, if only it really could! ;)
-F.
Yes, it's definitely an ex-NYBS bus. The 1300 series were the last US built fishbowls that NYBS received. All of the 1300 series (and most NYBS buses at the time) had DD 6V71 engines. I always thought they were S6H-5304A's, but it's possible that they got the transit designation (like NYBS' GMDD fishbowls) which would be T6H-5308A.
Wayne
Wow... I'd get, only if Sandra came with it!! LOL! Really though, I can't imagine the guy would give up such a piece of treasure...
Oh, if only Sandra came with it :o) But seriously, if you notice, this bus was already in the process of being converted over to a motorhome. To me, it would be alot better if it had the original seats. I loved the two-tone vinyl seats in 2525.
Yeah...and he shouldn't give up a Fishbowl either...LOL!!! ;)
-F.
I rode the Philly EL Shuttle again today and caught (2) Neo-Artics.
It seems like on a Sunday , they are running entirely too many busses on such short headways. The bus is never even close to full, and they are running about 2 minutes apart. Why pay drivers all that OT when you don't need that much service?
I took the "EL" up to Frankford Terminal. You really have to see for yourself what a giant project this is. When it gets rebuilt, it will be something to see!!
Chuck Greene
Just wondering, where would a degree in civil engineering get someone in this industry? Anyone here ever majored in it?
You could use it for the rail side of things, most likely. I have a degree in Economics. Transportation and Econ are basically the same: Supply and Demand. But, Engineers are always needed for designing of transportation infrustructures. You may want to talk to a counselor at U of Md and see what else you should do to get on that path.
I'm majoring in it right now. You can actually design and build highways and railroads (some dough), help maintain them (some dough), or you can be a consultant (mucho dough).
You can also use it as background to run some sort of transport firm, which is what I will do with my degree when I get it.
I made the trek from New Jersey to check out the "new" B-47. After taking NJ Transit from Matawan to New York Penn Station, I took the F train to Delancey Street, where I transferred to the J train. I took the J to Flushing Avenue. For the B-47, I took RTS # 5092 from Woodhull Hospital to Ralph Ave & Beverly Road. Interesting thing I noticed was the bunching of buses along the old B-78 portion of the route. That line never ran often enough to experience "bunching", especially on Sundays.
Then, at Beverly Road, I took New Flyer Low Floor # 989 on the B-8, which now comes out of Jackie Gleason Depot. I rode all the way to 18th Ave and 62nd Street, and all I saw were New Flyers, and 2 Orions, # 596 and # 598. There were no RTS's to be found. I also saw the B-35 and the B-68 today, and there were no RTS's there either. I guess that Gleason has enough "non-RTS's" to cover Sunday service without sending out RTS's.
After pizza for lunch, it was the N train to the W train back to Penn Station, and back to New Jersey.
Yeah, but then again, I saw two RTS's on the B9 today as I was perusing around the F and W trains.
Cleanairbus
Where can I find one? I thought the system/fleet was small enough for me to just figure out, but I got a few surprises in the last week.
Stuff I expected:
9900s - Nova... somethings
2000s - Orion VIs
Stuff that surprised me:
9959 - Suburban seating
1002 - Orion V
2?? - I don't know what the hell this was, but it looked old and was running on the 13
CDTA has NOVA LFS,ORION 6,ORION 1,NABI'S,and small shuttle buses for the airport[Wolf Road]/Crossgates special[route155].It also has ORION 2's for the STAR ADA non-fixed routes.Not much to look at,but you'll get use to it.There are bus route all over the place,though. Albany,Troy,Sch'dy,Renn.,Greenbush,Latham,Waterford ,Rotterdam,Colonie,Guilderland,Nassau,DELMAR,New Brunswick[almost to Vermont],Saratoga,and a few others.... the problem is,the buses take a while to come on some routes[and that could mean 1 hour between buses].When you get a chance,go out and explore the area... visit Crossgates mall....
I was up there not too long ago...all I saw was one Orion II, a lot of Orion VIs and a few Nova LFS's...then again, I was up there on a saturday...I believe #2010 and some of the lower 2000s have a Detroit Diesel S50 engine as oopposed to the Cummins engines in the rest of them...
Cleanairbus
yeah, I ride bus 55 all the time[to work].I mostly get NOVA's semi-express setups with soft seats. the others are mostly ORIONS with that funny rear door arangement that kills the seating on the bus.I didn't like them then[when they first arrived]and I dont like 'em now...the LFS's,on the other hand,are very comfortable,but if the A.C's broke on a hot day... FORGRTABOUTIT!!!!
Here is what I found today, and deduced from logic...
360-369 - Orion II (or I?) aw hell, these.
1001-1002 - Orion V
2001-21?? (At least 2101) - Orion VI; Another pic.
3001-30?? (At least 3030) - Nova LFS
9901-9959 - More Nova LFS, with 9951-9959 Suburban Seating
9961-9969 - Different style Nova Bus (at least I think it's a Nova); Another Pic
9961-9969 - should be a NABI 35LFW, not Nova.
Thanks for the photo, I finally found who has these NABI 35 footers.
Glad I could unwittingly be of assistance, and thanks for the correction!
[360-369 - Orion II (or I?) aw hell, these.]
Those are Orion I's, with larger than usual destination signs. At one time, before the low-floor buses started coming in, Albany had a huge fleet of Orion I's.
Ahh.. that explains it. I hope they send one or two on the 12 or 90 so I can ride them (free), but I haven't seen them or the NABIs around UAlbany or Crossgates.
You might see the Nabi on the 90[very rare AND ONLY IF NOTHING ELSE IS AVAILIBLE since it's a Troy based bus]and on the Troy bus route 84,but mostly NABI'S run on the crosstown lines [6/8]Almost all the Crossgates buses[10/12/90]run 40 ft buses to handle the crowds there.Also the CDTA only has a few ORION 1's around town[their a dying breed 'round these parts]I must say this ,though.I personally think the ORION 1's are the ugliest buses ever made!They ran 'em until they couldn't run anymore,and they gave pretty decent service,BUT DAMN aer they ugly!!!
I must say this ,though.I personally think the ORION 1's are the ugliest buses ever made!They ran 'em until they couldn't run anymore,and they gave pretty decent service,BUT DAMN aer they ugly!!!
I totally disagree. The Orion I may be a plain bus, and the oversized destination sign on some of the later versions looks out of place, but I'd hardly call it ugly.
You don't have to look very far in the Capital Region for what I feel is the ugliest transit bus in North America - it's the Nova LFS.
One bus fan's opinion, for what it's worth.
Jim D.
The NOVA'S are beautiful!!!! inside and out! They run like crap.. but they still look good doing it!HOLLA BACK!!
9961-9969 are NABIs, not Nova LFS.
Forgot to add this link to my previous message, but here's the all-time CDTA roster:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/nebuses/rosters/albany.html
Thanks for the link! Although it's missing the 360s...
Do the Orion V's operate on specific routes? I've never seen those in service on my trips to the Capital Region.
Jim D.
MOSTLY Central ave routes[1/2/55],and there is only one ORION 5 bus here.
There's two. I saw 1001 on the 55 on Monday, and 1002 on the 12 on Friday (with a trainee driving, he kept stopping hard and going up on the curb on turns).
Gotta go out and see this for myself,dude.
Sorry this kepts coming up but, I want to know if anybosy knows what buses went to JG for the B8? And has anybody seen the B8 in action with JG Buses?
-AcelaExpress2005
Yes, someone posted about it yesterday. If you were looking for a post specifically about the B8, you won't find it that way, you have to read a post which has a subject about many bus rides taken yesterday.
Here's a tidbit that may satisfy you just a little. I now book the B8 everyday from Rockaway Pkwy and Hegeman ave from 2-8pm. Here is a listing of the buses that ran on the B8 today. (I will not be posting this everyday-sorry.)
972, 8544, former ENY bus 4650, 940, 8548, 810, 873, 584, 850, 822, 606, 808, 8681, 8525, 8675, 592, 837, 8534, 899, 8528, 922, 8558, 840 and 816.
As you can see, every bus that ran on the B8 were prior Jackie Gleason buses except for 4650, so that is one of the buses that were transferred over there.
I'll post the other transfer buses as I see them.
BIG AL
8681 & 8675 were ENY buses as well,so it looks like ENY sent part of the 8600's to JG.
while i am now working on the b49, i observed 5 yes 5 b8s waiting together at the flatbush avenue light going east bound. i guess its going to take a while for guys in gleason to get the hang of that line .. lmao
lol , With school in , its a cruel introduction to the line . Trust me, i drove it for about 2 years . If an Operator gets caught up at Remson ,Utica ,Nostrand and Flatbushn Ave on transfers from other buses and the traffic on 18th Ave , he or she is done and is now the leader of 2 other buses . Ps I was always the third bus , lol
4650 an original gleason bus went home
4650 was originally from Gleason. I would tend see more low floors on the B8 aka the "hospital route".
B8#989
8675 is also anouther Ex ENY RTS however 8675 never ran for any JG Lines before
Q5Merrick was nice enough to update us on the info. Ex-ENY Buses #8671-8689 are at JG. So, here's the official roster:
1987 TMC RTS-06: #4643-4652
1990 TMC RTS-06: #8090-8097 and #8099-8101
1993 TMC RTS-06: #8449-8450, #8455-8457, #8460 and #8518-8566
1994 TMC RTS-06: #8671-8689
1995 Orion 05.501 CNG: #581-610
1999 NFI C40LF: #800-856
2000 NFI C40LF: #857-989
2002 Orion 07.501: #7560
Now, you can figure out the rest of the changes thanks to Q5Merrick on his post...."BROOKLYN IN DA HOUSE". Hope that helps! No, correction....THAT SHOULD HELP.
you missed two of them:
4776 and 4867-both were running on the B68 this afternoon going toward Stillwell Avenue. Bus #4867 run was X53. Both buses still had Ulmer Park Stickers on them. Is Ulmer Park oding a split on this line in the afternoon, or are these buses permanant?
961-Flyer-B68
The B68 supplemental service is operated in the AM rush by Jackie Gleason (X01-X03) and in the PM rush by Ulmer Park (X51-X53).
David
thank you for the information.
8565-8567 were built in 1994.
-AcelaExpress2005
It seems that Four Mile Run is the next garage outfitting their buses with bike racks as I saw 9225 and 9285 with them running on the 1B and 4A, respectively.
I wonder if the Neoplan artics will start service already equipped with them?
I also saw 5227 and here's a shock, 2121 both with bike racks
They're going across the board now with those racks. These bike racks will make for good battering rams!
LOL!! Maybe they can use them to push the Orion IIs over a cliff.
LOL, yeah, I'd love to see that!
we have bike racks on all of our busses out here in las vegas nevada....
Now Quill just got in the Orions and they have the NOVAs there for the X90/92, as well as X26.
Now please explain this - a 96XX NOVA on the X92 this evening. A Hard Seater.
If Quill was short on buses, you mean to tell me that they couldn't borrow 1852, 3809, or the 4800s at HUDSON, or the 7038-7049 & 3893 at 126th for the express runs????? Or even have more Onions sent to them???
Assuming those buses were available at the time. It makes sense to me to use the available hard-seater rather using resources to transfer a bus to/from a depot to cover an express run.
I remember in the 70's & 80's when local buses routinely operated on SI expresss routes. Ulmer Park has sent many a hard-seater out to cover express runs as well.
Wayne
I saw 141, 143, 148, 149, and 160 out of Quill...Rode #141 on the x26 this morning.
Cleanairbus
(This message is written in the thrid person as a tribute to BLX)
WMATA is definitely overtaken this board, so allow 'Q5 Merrick' to bring some Brooklyn grittiness back to BT.
To his surprise, Q5 spotted 8101 manipulating on the B61 with JG logos. Shortly thereafter Q5 spotted 8682 on the B67 with ENY logos. As it turns out one of Q5 Merrick's sources have revealed to him that ENY sent 4643-4652 back home to JG, along with 8090-8097, 8099-8101 (8098 was burned to a crisp a few years ago) and 8671-8689.
Also on the move from ENY were 9440-9443 as they returned to their original home, FLA.
Finally, FP got into the act as 4654-4657 were moved to FLA. Q5 saw 4655 himself on the B41. Bus 4653 remains at FP out of service.
Q5 hopes that he was able to help all of you who were staying up nights wondering which buses went where.
Long live BLX
Have a problem with WMATA taking over the board? I happen to like WMATA (bug surprise, isn't it)...
Thanks for the update though!
BLX is grateful, and will try to continue living without the use of mind controlling substances. Here is what BLX saw last week. In anticipation of the Q27 starting service into Queensboro College, a test bus (#612, Orion soft seater) assigned to QV, driven by a QV female b/o off the extra list was going thru the motions at the new entrance/exit on 56 Avenue. Today was the 1st day of service, only locals go into the college, limiteds bypass. BLX was travelling thru downtown Hartford this past weekend, next time there BLX will jot down some sightings. Let BLX tell you, downtown Hartford is a dead city after work and on weekends. BLX says The Wiz going out of business sale was bogus!! BLX loves you!
Hey, variety is the spice of life.
That should quiet all the "BUSFANs" out there who keep asking the same question over and over. I'm quite surprised by the mixture of different buses that were sent over to J.G. I'll post what I see on the B8 and B15 & B35 every now and then to satisfy them some more.
BIG AL
Thank you Q5 for the update, today during my B13 testing I've seen a few former ENY buses on the B43, they were 4644, 8673, 8676, and 8680.
OMG!! FP loses some 4600's, that's HARD to believe! Now were down to 248 buses. There hasn't been a single change in FP's fleet FOR MORE THAN A YEAR!
Sorry Flatbush, I know it feels bad to get dumped on, but FP has been through it many times already.
Also, Ridgewood truly gets to experience the R143 now on weekend M-Line(and the best part, its ONLY for Ridgewood and Bushwick :) , sorry lower Brooklyn) . It was great to see FP yard(located behind FP depot) with an R143 in it. Good, Jamaica residents won't see anything new on their J line(they don't deserve them before us anyway).
Looks like the good changes are finally starting to happen around here. :)
-DaRidgewood
Im sure FLA will keep those 4600's up to par.
I still have a soft spot for NYCT and I always will - After all... NYC is home. However, I'm really enjoying living in the DC area and learning a new system. The bad part is that sometimes I find it difficult to "keep in touch" with the happenings at NYCT. I'm glad BT is here or else I'd be totally lost by now as far as NYCT is concerned.
Wayne
Yes!!!! 9440-43 have come back home. Thanks for the info, Mark.
I was on 9440 today on the B44.
-AcelaExpress2005
Amtrak Modeling
I wish ENY would of sent 5230-5249 back to their orginal home, JG!
-AcelaExpress2005
Actually the original home of 5230-5249 is Kingsbridge.
-Mark
I know that, but I believe home is JG, LOL
-AcelaExpress2005
If that is the original place why take them out of kingsbridge depot?
Kingsbridge rec'd 5205-5249 when they were new. They transferred them (and KB remaining Orion V's 402-451) as KB started getting their newest group of New Flyer artics.
Wayne
I saw 9440 on the B41 yesterday. On tuesday I saw 8092(unrepowered) and 8671 on the B43.
B41#9440
B43#8092
B43#8671
I started off by riding Flxible B 8812 on the F14 and rode it to New Carrolton, where I got on Flxible B 8713 on the F6. After a two year absence from Landover, where it began, well almost. I got to College Park, where I caught Orion V 2132 on the C8 enroute to White Flint. As I passed by the Montgomery garage a couple of observations jumped out. The first was that there are still about 40 New Flyer CNGs there. I guess either they are waiting for bike racks, or waiting till Bladensburg clears some more space for them, or very long shot, being fitted for the new fareboxes. The other observation is there are five more MANNs that are ready to go bye-bye for good. The logos and bus numbers are blacked out. Get your MANN pics while you can, because soon they will be bus history.
I caught Orion One 5537 to Rockville and then missed one Orion V, but caught a newer Orion V 5597 on the 55 to Lakeforest Mall. Leaving Lakeforest Mall caught Orion V 5613 to Shady Grove. I caught 4373, an ex-Bladensburg bus heading towards Rockville. There was a woman or man who was complaining about this and that and when it complained about a window being opened with the A/C on, it got up and closed the window, even though there was a person sitting there. The window was open when everyone got on the bus, and didn't ask the person if they would close the window and on top of that was cursing about the guy when it sat back down ( assume it was a girl, but the way it acted, you could never tell). As the bus got to Montgomery Community College, the bus got packed, I mean packed. The Q2, the bus I was riding got to Rockville, and I got off. I was trying to catch 5546, but when it put up, 30' 5546 pulled up and alot of people got on. So I waited and caught CNG Ride On 5817 to White Flint.
At White Flint, I saw a couple of things, I saw 5227 with a bike rack. Ride On 5517 had to relieve 5545, must have had mechanical problems. 2128 apparently had some mechanical problems, because it had to be towed back to Montgomery. It wasn't far, since Montgomery was right across the block. 3900 was running a shuttle, I think from the White Flint Station to Mid Pike Plaza. So I got on 9714, a Flxible Metro D to College Park. Now here's a shock, 2121, a Orion V had a bike rack. I had to check twice to make sure I was seeing things. I think someone may have mentioned this one before. I got to College Park and waited for a F6 to New Carrolton, and waited, and waited, finally it came and there were alot of people waiting for the same bus, it came late, apparently very late. So late that a couple of minutes after it came, up came Flxible B 8813, which I got on. Well 8813 might have been 2 minutes behind 2046 (the late bus), it got to the New Carrolton Station 3 minutes before 2046, gee I wonder if I am glad to catch the later bus. Finally I got 4086, a Flxible E on the F14 home.
A couple of other observations to mention. Officially all of Bladensburgs Orion Vs have been transferred to Montgomery, 4359-4362 were the last to go. This one may spell dome for the 8700-8900s. I have yet to see a bike rack on any of them. The rehabs might get them, but if all of the buses get them, even all of Landover's buses (Orion Vs and VIs, the Flxibles are starting to get them, although I saw only 5175), then these buses will probably be retired soon.
See yall September 13th.
Earlier today I got chance to take test New B13. I started off with the ...
B13 RTS #8006, from Cooper Av. to Willmsbg., Graham Av.. Came on time at 12:45 P.M.. There were about 10 riders after Gates Av.(new path). There were some delays on Wyckoff Av., slow traffic, but Flushing Av./Bushwick Av. went normal. Then I got off at Graham Av. to wait for the....
B13 RTS #9575, from Willmsbg. to Spring Creek.
I got on at 1:53 P.M.. During the new portion ther were 11 riders, most got off before Palmetto St. though. There weren't really any delays this time on the new path, but Fresh Pond RD. had a small delay. When it got to up Linden Blvd. there were people actually standing. Like I said before on my other post, there are usually more riders in the Spring Creek direction. Now I get to the other change. I think the Elderts La. path wastes more time IMO, but at least it follows the path of the B15 and B20. I got to Spring Creek at 3:09 P.M., so the entire trip took 76 minutes. I decided to walk to Gateway to see how it is. Then I went back to the B13 and got the.....
B13 RTS #9599, from Spring Creek to Willmsbg.
I got on at 3:53 P.M., This time the B13 went quickly, however it stopped at Gates Av./Wyckoff Av. because it was going out of service. One minute later when I got off the 9599, it was replaced by...
B13 RTS #8008, continued where 9599 lefted off, to Willmsbg at 4:40 P.M.. Two people from the 9599 were on the 8008(not including me, the tester). I was talking to the B/O when we got to Bushwick Av. I said no one knows the existance of this bus here. He agreed with me, then he said, it won't be like this once they know they have a bus going here. So I got to Graham Av. at 4:58 P.M.. I entire trip on the 9599/8008 only took 65 minutes.
Then what crappened? The damn 4752 and 4721 came, I rejected both of them. What the hell happened to my 9100's? I seen none the entire time I was on the B13 this day. Sorry, but I deserve better than that on my B13, esp. when I was looking at the buses the B43 had! During this long wait I managed to see former ENY buses on JG's B43, they were 8673, 8676, 8680 and 4644. Finally at 6:35 P.M. I get.....
B13 RTS #8158, from Willmsbg. to Palmetto st.,Ridgewood
During the new path there were about 22 riders, about 15 of them stood on after Palmetto St. I got off early because I wanted to ride the...
R143 L-Train, then at 9:00 P.M, I took the 5070 home on the Q55. If it wasn't for those crappy 4700's, I would have taken the 8158 to Spring Creek.
Here's what I think about the new B13:
It's actually pretty good, but it can suffer from delays on Wyckoff Av., and the schudule lost some of its accuracy that the old B13 had. However its still early, people along the new path still don't know it exist, but when they do, that's when it will probably slow down. But one thing's for sure, the B13 will never end up like the Q58(shivers at its inaccuracy). Overall I still think the original B13 was better. I give the new one an A-, the original was an A+
For anyone that already been on the B47, how did you rank it? I'll probably try it next month.
-
B13- RTS #8006
B13- RTS #9575
B13- RTS #9599
B13- RTS #8008
B13- RTS #8158
Q55- RTS #5070
I was on the B47 yesterday the whole trip from Woodhull Hosp.-Kings Plz. and it was very good. more people got on it going through the old B40 route than through the old B78 route,well i guess that was cause another 47 was ahead of us that no doubt started at Rutland Rd.
Before we got to Rutland Rd. the bus was empty except for me and 2 other people which made it look like a 78 starting from Rutland Rd. without going past there.and here's the really interesting thing,I saw about 2 or 3 buses going the other way along the old B78 route and those 2 or 3 buses were ending at Rutland Rd.,instead of saying
B47 Rutland Rd. it said B78 Brownsville-Rutland Rd. I couldnt believe it.I guess those B/O's didnt know the new code number for that new destination sign with the B47 so they put up the old B78 sign.And there was people on it,each almost crowded.So overall I rate the B47 an A+.Even though it runs a different route now,the bus route number itself is back and even though I never rode it before when it started from Lefferts Gardens which is now the B43 I still wanna say....
Welcome back B47!!
I saw the same thing at Sutter Av/Rutland RD. Instead of posting B47: E.Flatbush-Rutland Rd, the B78 sign was displayed. I also saw that some B15s have the same northern destination sign as the B47: Bed-Stuy-Woodhull Hospital.
B15#5230
B47#9441
I use to ride the Tompkins ave B47 LINE all the time.
On Sunday I saw an Orion V from Montgomery (I think it was 2132) on the Z8 with one of the flags that we usually see on the 4th of July. I remember last year WMATA put them on the buses after the 9/11 attacks. Also lots of Montgomery Flx Metros are sporting bus racks these days.
Wayne
Most of the buses in NYC has had the flag on the rear windows(NYCTA & QS)since after the attacks.
Yes - I'm aware of NYCT (bus & subway) & NYCDOT bus flag decals. WMATA actually has always had a flag decal as part of their color scheme. My thinking was that it was a natural fit for their red, white & blue color scheme which is a natural fit for the Nations' Capital transit system. However, all WMATA buses have a small metal bracket just above the drivers' window. On the 4th of July they put real flags (not decals) in these brackets. They can usually be seen for a couple of days after the 4th - my guess is until the bus goes through the wash. They look really good when the bus is moving and the flag is flying in the wind.
Wayne
It was September 14 last year. They should be doing it tomorrow, I didn't see any flags today. I guess they will put them on as the buses pull out of the garages tomorrow morning.
Yesterday afternoon about 4PM i rode the F Shuttle Bus and the B-68 replacement for the Q Line and here are my observations
1-The F Line Shuttle Bus in its present form will not work!!!!!!
Not enough buses. I was the last one down from my F train at Ave X and i waited to see the train leave the platform before going down to the bus . They were about 10 people from my train waiting for a bus and the next train has already pulled in at Ave X from Manhattan
with the next mob
The transfer from bus to subway at Avenue X is a long block away
The TA can make it closer if they move the bus stop on 86th Street near Mc Donald Ave. The bus makes a left any way to turn around
The Stillwell Ave bound Neptune Ave stop is located under the Belt Parkway on Shell Road. A great place to be mugged at night. I did see a DOB Superintendent and suggestted an additional stop at Shell Rd and Neptune Ave and he was very receptive to the idea
The West 8th Street stop is also a problem you have people getting off from Manhattan and people getting on who wish to transfer to trains
Recommendations:
1-Extend Shuttle Bus to 25th Ave/86th Street so connections can be made to the N Line 86th Street Station and the W Line 25th Ave Station.
2-Reroute the service so that buses leaving Stillwell Ave Terminal can pick up F Line passengers at West 8th Street going towards Ave X at a different stop. Reroute via Stillwell,Mermaid,W.17th St,Surf,W.8th St
The B-68 there is no control over paying fares. You can board the bus and say you are going to the subway and just stay on past Brighton Beach/Coney Island Ave. They are no block transers given nothing Dispatcher said thell driver you are going to the subway.
About 50% of people who boarded the B-68 in the extended route did not get off by the subway
Basically this whole shuttle bus operation is JUST A DISASTER.
THE TA HAS TO MAKE SOME MAJOR CHHANGES FAST !!!!!!!
Thats my opinion and i saw it.
Thank You
[The B-68 there is no control over paying fares. You can board the bus and say you are going to the subway and just stay on past Brighton Beach/Coney Island Ave. They are no block transers given nothing Dispatcher said thell driver you are going to the subway.]
The B68 is just a route extension, not a dedicated shuttle. It's supposed to be FARE-PAID for ALL riders - switching from the B68 to the Q uses up the free transfer.
The dispatcher at Stillwell and Surf Ave told me to tell the operator that i am transferring to the subway and the operator told me that i did not have to pay
According to the dispatcher subway riders DO NOT HAVE TO PAY
Thank You
For argument's sake, let's say you are correct. Then, what happens to somebody who lives at the Ocean Parkway station of the Q line, and they want to travel to places like Bayside or Co-Op City. Normally, they would swipe their Metro Card at Ocean Parkway station, ride to Queens or The Bronx. Then, they would dip the Metro Card in the bus to their destination, getting a FREE TRANSFER.
According to your theory, people use up that free transfer when transferring from the B-68 to the Q train at Brighton Beach. Does that sound fair to you? Why should people have to pay extra money because of the MTA's decision to close down stations?
People are suppose to ride the B-68 free between Bighton Beach Station and Stillwell Avenue so they do not use their free transfer.
I never said that they have to use their free transfer between the B-68 and the subway.
I suggest you reread the TA service advisary on this again
Thank You
I posted the response to Gotham Bus Co., not you. You had it correct.
I suggest you learn how to read message boards properly.
Thank You
The time you used posting this could have been much better spent by composing a letter to the Dept. of Buses at 370 Jay St. Get your community board involved in this as well.
Actually, DOB has been monitoring the F shuttle, and some improvements are under design. The improvements may affect the B68 as well.
David
I saw in DN yesterday (Bklyn Edition) that there is supposed to be a community meeting discussing the shuttle buses down in CI.
I saw a Q58 using one while I was going to Queens Blvd. on the Q88 I was riding.
Is this part of the new assignment process of 9/8/02? Will the Q20A/B see RTS'?
No that is a school trip for the kiddies. It runs I think 1 or 2 trips. I ll find out.
That was one of 7 school-day-only trips on the Q58 which run out of Casey Stengel Depot. They tun from John Bowne High School (Main Street & Reeves Avenue) via Main Street, Horace Harding Expressway, 108th Street, and Corona Avenue, but only as far as Junction Blvd.
Sorry, but FP will always be the true owner of the Q58. Its the same with the B20.
-
Q58- RTS #8016
same stengel school trippers as there have been for a long time
I saw 4 RTS buses parked in the garage at Ulmer Park. All 4 had no numbers on them, nor license plates. Are these buses meant for scrap, and if so, what numbers were they? I hope Ulmer Park gets newer buses soon.
9320-B1
4792-B64
One is 4770 I don't remember the others
Damn, 4770 isn't even that old a bus. Soon all that'll be left is Series-50 RTS's....
Now that the temperatures are a bit cooler, I prefer the 4000 series over the 9000 soft seaters. they are the worst. They smell, hard to load and unload delaying the trip
Oh, when I'm at Parson/Archer I will wait for a 4000-4500 series bus on the Q5. I hate the series-50 RTS's with a passion. One of my favorites is 4567 because of the railfan windows. That bus seems to be used on the Q5 alot.
4567--piece of garbage!
BIG AL
I supposed you'd prefer a crappy Series-50 RTS? Those are REAL garbage. Save the 6V-92's!
I don't mean to sound blunt, but if you have never 4567, and I doubt you have, as far as I'm concerned, you don't know anything about it. I've driven EVERY RTS in Jamaica depot. I believe I am the only one on this board who can tell you the good buses from the bad at Jamaica depot, from actual driving experience. I never said every 6V-92 bus was bad, in fact one of the best buses I ever drove was 4584. However, from my experience with 4567, it is a bus that is slow, rattley, leakey and uncomfortable in the drivers area with a worn out seat. The windows rattle like crazy and I think look rather ugly from the inside, not to mention they don't even match any more. Most customers agree from the comments I heard. The A/C is only marginal and it is always hot in the drivers area in the summer. This is a bus that is not the pick of the litter when sitting in the yard with other buses when the B/Os are given the opportunity to pick their own buses. The suspension is worn out and hard and I believe it smokes a bit. The inside paint is dull and ugly and the seats were scratched up with scrafiti. The inside of the bus always smells of old age. Rookie bus operators tend to pick it because it has a different look but veteran operators, like myself (when I was a B/O) would only drive it when assigned to us by the sld.
4567 needs to be retired. It has very high mileage. It is not a good bus at all which gives me the right from my past experiences to call it a piece of garbage.
I have no problem with the series 50 other than it shakes a bit at idle. When set up properly my maintainence, the bus is very fast. The best buses right now at Jamaica depot are the 1996 8939-9073 series buses which are always the first choice of the more knowledged bus operator. 9054 and 9065 are possibly the 2 fastest series 50 buses in the depot, along with one in the 8940 series. 4584 IS the fastest 6V-92 in the depot, with cold A/C and a smooth ride. It will be missed when the day comes for her to leave. 4567 will not be missed...
BIG AL
So what is your opinion of #3818 (if it still exists)? Perhaps I shouldn't ask, you seem hell-bent on the Series-50 engines. I can only speak of 4567 from a passenger standpoint, and as such I can attest those Series-50's are quite uncomfortable when the bus shakes like crazy. I only hope those new MCI's on the express runs have a smoother ride. I will actually wait for a 6V-92 bus on the Q5.
Don't the MCIs have the DD-60 Engine?
I have never been in one, so I don't really know.
I'm not hell bent on the series-50. The main difference with them is they are supposed to run cleaner than the 6V-92. They would be faster, however Transit put low end governors on the newest 1998 9350 series and up buses to slow the acceleration, in an effort to curb passenger injuries. This was not done with the 1996 RTS's. From a standstill, you won't find a 6V-92 that will hang with a 1996 series 50. Yes, the shaking of the series-50 can be annoying, but I can deal with it if it means better acceleration. I have no opinion of 3818. It is not a bus that stands out in my mind other than me being on it a few months ago while talking to one of the operators on the Q17.
BIG AL
I'm afraid you're in the minority with regard to the 6V-92 RTS's. I for one, love the 1996 Novas (at Jamaica those are the 8900/9000's). The TA also disagrees with you. When was the last time you saw a 6V-92 RTS on a "hawk" (overnight) run? QV NEVER runs their 4000/4300's on a Saturday or Sunday, and those God-awful 7000 remanufactured hunks of junk only see rush hour service. Face it--the 1985-87 RTS's are on their last legs and I won't miss 'em.
--Mark
Good, I hope FP kills their 4600's/4700's as soon as possible.
-
B13- RTS #9596
Yeah, that way you can be left with all piece-of-shit series 50 RTS's. You'll eat those words...
I rarely see anything wrong with the 9100's. On the other hand those crappy 4600's/4700's in FP suffer from breakdowns, and they are the most common buses to be Out of Service. But I will admit, the 5000's suffer with problems too.
I never liked the 4600's/4700's the first they even came to FP. I see nothing great with them. So yes, I would much rather have the 9100's in FP. But of course I wish the Fishbowls were still around(the classics were the best).
Do I support the "New"?, of course not. I can care less about the Orion7, I don't think its going to do that great anyway.
I've been told (and I firmly believe this) that the GM RTS's (not only have better engines) also have better suspensions. No, I much prefer the GM Fishbowls, but of course today NYBS is the only depot to still have them. I don't blame the 4700's breaking down because they're old, I think the reason they break down so much is deferred maintenance. I say enjoy the 6V-92 buses while they're still around. The Orions that will be replacing them are true garbage. I hate the Orion V CNG's at M.T.A. L.I. Bus with a passion.
does that mean Ulmer Park is getting orion V's?
Got 5569, one of the 35 foot Orion V/CNGs, on the 37. After having 5602 all of last week (for some reason, I think it really belongs at Silver Spring), we had 5619 yesterday. An interesting thing I noted was that the bus had schedules for the 34 and 38 among other Gaithersburg routes in the take ones at the back door. Have these routes now been moved up north? WES, you were near White Flint this weekend, right, what did you see on the 38, if anything?
9353 (Metro B from Montgomery) has the rack. I have a feeling WMATA will send a bus to the BikeDC staging area to demonstrate the rack on Saturday.
Still waiting to see an Orion V or Orion II with the rack. I don't see many Orion VIs or C40LFs, although I've been told no CNG with rack sightings have been made. If anyone thinks there might be a problem with the Orion racks, note Ride-On has racks on their Orions, as does SunBus in Palm Springs, CA. If there are problems, perhaps WMATA should order the racks Ride-On has. Finally, I think once Metro has the Buscycle feature on all its buses, they should give a week of free rides to anyone who brings a bike with them on the bus. Ride-On has done this in the past.
RIPTA's fleet has Sportworks racks similar to the ones Ride-On uses, and I had occasion to try one out for the first time last weekend . . . I wanted to take my bike with me from Providence to Newport on the 60 line. On the outbound trip, I showed up at the bus stop and found the bike rack was already full with two bikes. Fortunately, rather than waiting an hour for the next bus (Sunday service), the driver, a nice sort, let me strap my bike in one of the wheelchair positions in the rear of the '98 TMC RTS bus. (He used his direct-connect cell phone to contact Operations for permission first.)
Coming back that afternoon, I finally got to try the Sportworks rack. It was really easy to use; the two-place rack folds down, then the bike is lifted into its cradle, and a tensioned J-bar is pulled over the front wheel to secure it. Regulations prohibit RIPTA operators from leaving their seats to assist in bike loading; however, a number of decals are affixed to the rack delineating procedures.
I was impressed by the simplicity of the design and the security of the bike over the 70-minute trip that included urban and suburban roads, high-speed two-lanes, and an Interstate stretch. The J-bar kept the bike firmly seated; I did, however, take the precaution of removing all accessories from the bike like my lock, for the rack appears to be frame-mounted and thus transmits significant road vibrations to the bikes. This could cause parcels and anything not securely fixed to the bike to work loose over a long trip.
The racks don't significantly affect driver visibility; although they do extend out in front of the bus, they don't extend the full width of the vehicle, so bikes aren't likely to get clipped during turns. While these observations are of RIPTA buses, Metro's and Ride-On's racks are similar in design.
Chris
When I was out there on Monday, it looked like the 38 was using buses from the Silver Spring garage. I saw a couple of 5700 series Orions on the 38, it must have been a loaner bus for a while down south.
Actually almost all of the CNGs have bike racks, and just this week, Four Mile Run and Arlington have gotten theirs.
Morning commute is normal so far, with exception of X3/4 not going down to WFC, but turning on Park Place at Church Street.
X13,X15,X18,X20 this afternoon begins at Park Place and Broadway Stop and then continue on the Loop.
Anyone else with information, please post.
9/11/2001
All gave some. Some gave ALL.
Remember
This is why there will be no Tanger Shopping Mall L.I.R.R. Station.....the tracks are behind NYS route 25. No where near the mall. The tracks go under route 25 (anotherwords crossing the street) and that's a distance back to the mall. Plus, the tracks go through the woods, so there really is now way of getting back to the mall. Trust me, I know this. I've seen it. I tried to picture it and that's why I'm sharing this with you guys.
a shopping mall in LI i never heard about!? where is it? and please be specific.as long as im out here in LI right now,i might as well make the best of it.
The Tanger Outlets, an open air shopping center (not really a "mall"), is in the Town of Riverhead on NY 25 and CR 58, where I-495/Long Island Expressway ends. I believe it is the largest outlet complex in New York State, or at least was so at one time (it may be beaten by Woodbury Common in Orange County.)
:-) Andrew
Nope, it's the LARGEST "OUTDOOR" mall in the country!
According to their respective web sites, Woodbury Commons has 220 stores while Tanger Riverhead has 202 stores. So at least in one respect, Woodbury Commons is the largest outlet mall in New York State.
Q5Merrick and BIG AL, this is for you guys!!!!
Back in the 1980's (actually 1985-1986), Jamaica Bus Depot had buses 3576-3650. Good buses, however those buses had their sharing of breakdowns. For example, back in 1985...I was in my Grandfather's car traveling down Merrick Blvd to Long Island around the evening rush (like around 6:00 in the cold! Winter was in high gear!)...when I see three buses northbound on Merrick (Jamaica bound). Bus #3593 was...open. That was the first time I discovered the inside in the bus. Buses #3598 and #3607 were picking up the passengers of bus #3593. I remember that because the Q42 would make a right onto Merrick off Sayres (good memory, huh?) I believe that was bus #3607 on the Q42.
Since then, I fell in love with those buses. I thought buses #3651-3655 were with Jamaica but I found out later that they were with Fresh Pond. Then buses #3576-3650 split up in 1986-1987 when those damn #4554-4599 buses came! I don't remember seeing bus #4599 but I do remember that buses #3576-3609 went to Hudson and #3610-3650 went to Flushing (Casey Stengel). Then later, the buses #3610-3615 went to Hudson while #3616-3639, #3641-3643 went to 100th St and #3645-3650 went to Hudson. Why did Flushing keep #3640 and #3644? In 1997, QV got #3638-3639 for some reason (#3638 was my favorite). Enjoy the memories!
I remember this well too - because in addition to me riding those buses at JAM... I rode them often on WAL routes. WAL had #3487-3575.
Wayne
I don't think 3651-3654 were ever at FP. I don't recall seeing them there especially around 1985-86. Weren't these UP buses? 3655 was at FP but probably arrived around 1988 or 89.
3651-3749 were original ulmer park buses in 1984.as you know 3669 still running out of eny.
That's what I was thinking too. I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory of once seeing 3651 in Manhattan making a run on one of Ulmer Park's express routes.
Wayne
The original 1984 delivery is as follows:
3400-3486 to 5th Ave (now JG)
3487-3577 to Walnut (then 3576 & 3577 to JAM)
3578-3650 to Jamaica
3651-3748 to Ulmer Park (then 3655-3680 to FP)
3749-3799 to Castleton
I hope this helps.
-Mark
but didnt 3774-3789 go to Yukon?
3771-3789 went to Yukon and 4854-4872 went to CAS in a weird swap - dunno why????????
then 4873-4899 went to Yukon. Eventually, 4854-4872 went to Ulmer Park.
And 4873-4888 were converted to soft-seaters, and now many of them 4873-4888 can be found at Hudson, with 4889-4891 at Flatbush, and 4892-4897 at Yukon, with 4898&4899 scrapped
4889-4891 are actually at FP not FLA
sorry - I knew it was one of the F depots
In the mid to late 1980's buses 3576-3650 were the pride and joy of Jamaica Depot. Jamaica's allotment of 1984 RTS's actually began with #3578. Buses 3576 and 3577 came over from Walnut in 1985. They ran in SE Queens for over six years before buses 3610-3650 were moved to Flushing (now Casey Stengel) in 1990. I remember watching 3617 and 3621 being driven into Flushing Depot on the day of the move. Buses 3576-3609 did wind up in Hudson, but in 1993. At the same time, Stengel moved 3610-3650 to 100th Street in order to make room for the Orion V's.
-Mark
So, where did buses #3576-3609 go before 1993? Also, why did Flushing keep buses #3640 and #3644?
Buses 3576-3609 stayed in Jamaica until 1993. I think Stengel kept 3640 and 3644 because they were so called "VIP" buses. I really can't remember what this "VIP" status meant. Maybe someone can elaborate further.
-Mark
Buses 3576-3609 were involved in the most utterly senseless bus swap I have ever seen. They went to Hudson in exchange for 1983 RTS's 3249-3278.
A swap like that was most likely done to adjust the average age of the buses in the two depots. It's really just a numbers game and I agree, rather senseless, but it can back transit's claim that all their depots had an average target age which was met at that time (whatever the number was back then.)
BIG AL
Ulmer Park wound up with these buses during the late 1980's into the 1990s)the move made no sense:
PA3279-PA3303-from Hudson to Ulmer Park.
3656-moved from Fresh Pond to Ulmer Park.
now this makes no sense. Ulmer Park had 3651-3656, then 3678-3748. How come they didnt get 3657-3677. Wouldnt that have made better sense?
So, I assuming that buses #3249-3278 went to Jamaica while #3209-3250 were at Flushing. I remember bus #3209 on the Q13.
Any Q42 making a right turn onto Merrick from Sayres would either be deadheading back to Jamaica from "Bricktown" or doing a pull in trip into Jamaica depot.
I started working at Jamaica depot in August 1995 and 4599 was already out of service, being scrapped. It had suffered some kind of damage in the rear door area from an accident, similar to 4591, and transit scrapped her instead of repairing her. The damage didn't look that severe to me and I was always surprised at the scrap decision. (4591 didn't look that severe either.) 4599 sat in the depot along the wall stripped of parts till about the Spring of 1996 when it was finally towed out. However, 4599 was always, and I believe still is on Transit's bus rosters in the yearly bus guides that come out in the Fall.
BIG AL
You are telling me that the Q42 never went down Sayres Av between Merrick Blvd and about 174th St?
It's been about 4 years since I drove the 42 and I can't remember the exact streets it travels, however I do believe it runs along Sayres, but only up to 1 or 2 blocks from Merrick Blvd. On the deadheads, the operators I believe took Sayres all the way to Merrick, made the right and went North on Merrick blvd. I have the entire route written on my notebook which is in my locker at Jamaica depot. But I haven't been by the depot for a few weeks now. Next time I go, I'll clean out the locker and bring the book home and look at the route plan, unless someone else on the board knows the exact name and number streets it travels.
BIG AL
Geeez, you guys are quite this week ... opps I heard a pin drop.
At this depot things a normal ... got a few new customers that mommy has been helping to board. Not all our regulars are back, but each week a few more return.
I think that between the conclusion of Rosh Hashanh and 9/11 the lack of enthusiam this week is understandable
your mommy????
From a very reliable source, a senior driver at Bonanza who hasn't been wrong yet...
Academy is purchasing Red & Tan and Community Coach from Coach USA. CU is also closing The Maine Line, and more cuts from the New England and NY/NJ operations are expected. Brian Souter (CEO at Stagecoach/Coach USA) has been wielding a heavy knife, and this is just the beginning.
Coach USA sell off
This purchase would give Academy the lucrative Bergen County area as well as the Community #77 from Morristown-NYC that competes with Midtown Direct.
Trevor, the Rockland Coaches union contract ends next year - any more details?
Why is Coach USA selling Red & Tan Lines? Aren't they the only CUsa brand which makes money?
Yes they are, and when you're selling to raise money, you get the most from your best assets. When Greyhound was bankrupt, they didn't sell off their MC-8s, they sold the brand new 102A3s, because the newer buses would raise the most cash quickly.
Wow that is sooo unbelievable. Academy has prucahsed them already? Or is it still in the process. Did Coach Usa also sell off Olympia, cause there buses are no longer in the CUSA scheme anymore? They now say something like Newark Airport Express! Also will this affect Tonnelle Ave Red and Tan as well? I wonder if Academy will keep that facility open, I know they are not gonna squeeze all those buses into that small lot in Hoboken.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
If they Academy gets the Tonelle Facility, they could probably move the Hudson Contracted buses over there. Routes 2, 88, 123, 125.
This was eventually going to happen, I knew it, Coach USA just bought too much at one time. Whats the irony of this Coach USA tried to buy out Academy 2 times, and now they want Academy to help them out and buy some of their companies. I can understand why people are not very fond of Academy, but as far as work goes, you can find much better work at Academy.
As far as my opinion goes only some of the Coach USA Operations would be excellent for Academy. Suburban would be very ideal since they operate Rutgers Campus Shuttle. Olympia Trails would be good too, since Academy does provide Newark Airport Service and would be closer for them to move those buses to the Elizabeth Facility. Red & Tan of Jersey City would be good as well since they do have the Hudson Contract, and could move those buses over there with the exception to the 22 Hillside, PABT Buses etc.
Companies like Community Coach and Leisure Lines, they are money maker, but it just doesnt seem like those companies are a need from my view. If Academy, takes too much on at once, who knows maybe they will end up like Coach USA.
You were right Jay, You did call it.
Tony M.
Community is far from a moneymaker these days. NJT took back the Passaic County routes years ago and runs them from Market Street and Orange garages. They lost the 322-Meadowlands P&R to Academy, then NJT turned the route to the big A altogether. Outside of the Bergen County NJT-contract routes, all they have left is the #77 and some casino runs. Their charter work is a shadow of what it used to be.
Same goes for Leisure Line - once ShortLine moved into their building, LL might as well have been dissolved. That one Oakland-NYC route could easily get packaged with ShortLine's Suffern/Bergen County routes and sold (likely to Academy/Red & Tan), and ShortLine can handle the charter work themselves. Supposedly, Academy would do that in hopes of also picking up the "jewel" - Gray Line NYC.
ONE BUS and South Orange Avenue/Seven Bus could easily find their Newark routes returning to NJT (24, 31, 44), and existing 80-series routes and/or the Hudson County IBOAs could pick up the slack in Jersey City.
There is also speculation that Coach USA could package the upstate New York service of ShortLine with Blue Bird and sell that. Potential buyers could be Adirondack Trailways or Martz Trailways, both strong interstate carriers with existing presence in upstate NY.
Community I believe also has some 700 routes in Bergen County as well, those easily can go back to NJT even faster than the rest of the lines.
Tony M.
Wait, is this Red & Tan Jersey City Garage or Red & Tan MY Garage?
OH GOD LET IT BE RED & TAN JC GARAGE
PUHLEASE GOD I BEG OF YOU
Trevor Logan
I take it you do not like the buyer, huh?
I can't speak for Trevor, but considering that Academy isn't exactly union-friendly (ie. their employees are non-union) and that many of the CUSA shops are unionized, I highly doubt that any employee at R&T, Community, or (eventually) Suburban will be too thrilled with the prospect of Academy taking over. I would hope that New Jersey has some labor protection laws that would force Academy to honor the existing bargaining agreements.
Which reminds me - what happens to the contracted operations in Bergen County which Community presently operates? Does this mean that Academy takes them over as well or would NJT have to re-bid?
As far as the Bergen County contract, I'd guess that as long as Academy meets the existing terms of the contract, they will be permitted to continue the operation until the contract expires. The last time NJT actually took over the Bergen contract was 2 operators ago (prior to TCT, the name escapes me at the moment - was a joint venture of Leisure Line and someone else). NJT logged so many complaints that they kicked them off the contract and ran the routes from Oradell garage until the scheduled contract expiration date, then TCT won it.
That info I linked said Red & Tan LINES which is Rockland Coaches - as opposed to Red & Tan Tours (Jersey City), but I'm sure we will know for sure very soon. Rockland is the moneymaker though. As I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, when you're losing $$, you sell what will bring in the most money the fastest, and that would be Bergenfield/Westwood. And with Community, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Bergenfield garage re-open as the home of the NJT 750-series routes, which should have been done years ago anyway.
I drove pass that building almost everyday on the 167 line, It looks soo sad with no buses in front of it and a for sale sign on the building.
Tony M.
Metro-B 9267 was on the E6. I did get a picture of this although not of the front.
9206 seems to show up alot in my presence at the N bus stop at Friendship Heights. Got a picture of it today with its flag.
Almost all the MetroBuses had flags on them today. There was one exception, 4363 from Montgomery, on either the L7 or L8. I saw it this afternoon.
Orion V 015621 was on the 37 this morning. 5814 is the other bus. All Ride-On buses had flag decals on the left side near the rear. I saw this on 5814 yesterday. All buses seemed to have it today.
This afternoon, I got 5545 on the 37. The other bus was 5390. ATE no logner does one trip with Silver Spring doing the other. Now both buses are Silver Spring buses.
Finally got a new 42 schedule. Old Georgetown Road, Battery Lane, Cedar Lane, and the old routing through NIH are gray on the map.
WMATA 9924 has the bike rack. This bus had been used on Ride-On routes.
2219 still shows no route on the side destination sign.
FYI: We had discussed WMATA trains getting decals for 9/11. They didn't. The stormdoor decals were susposed to be the ones, although some trains don't have them already.
On Orion VI 2000, there were several cameras placed inside. Saw two in the front and one on left side near the middle.
Saw 4397 on the B11 heading to Rosslyn at Wisconsin and M.
Former Bladensburg Orion VI 2067 was on the 25B.
Saw a bike racks on a couple of Western Division Flxs, 4072 and a 92xx.
The 34 bus I was on was diverted off of 15th Street at F St. NW instead of turning left on Penn. Ave. Not sure what was going on there. A road supervisor tried to get the bus drivers attention by the White House on H St. to let him know of this change, but couldn't so she chased after us in her Blazer and cut our bus off at a bus stop. I got off right at 15th and F, so I don't know where it resumed its route.
On Orion VI 2000, our bus needed two lanes to make a right off of the Key Bridge onto M St. aggravating a motorist who leaned on his horn. The motorist then pulled along side our bus, yelling at the driver. Our bus driver yelled back that he shouldnt anything stupid and told him he needed two lanes to make the turn. The motorist still was yelling, but we just kept going. Oh well, morons will be morons.
Speaking of cameras, Ride-On buses now have stickers on the front above the driver (on the inside) saying the bus may have surveilence cameras in operation or something to that effect. Seen it on 5619, 5569, and 5602.
All buses bought by DART First State (Wilmington, Del.) starting with the 400-series Gillig Phantoms and including the 100-series Gillig low floors and 500-series NABIs have surveillance cameras inside the buses; the NABIs in Baltimore also appear to have cameras on their buses.
Today I actually went out after work today armed with my digital camera. Out of many many opportunities to get pics of WMATA buses with their flags I decided to stop because folks were giving me strange looks. I do understand as the average person (even some B/O) do not realize that were transit enthusiasts taking pics and not some wacko. I did get a couple of not-so-good shots of an Orion II, 30' Metro and a 00' Orion V with their flags. If anyone wants to see them I'll be happy to e-mail the photos.
Wayne
I'd like to see the Orion II. As I mentioned in my post, the E6 had a 40 foot Flxible on it, not the standard Orion II.
I got the usual "why is he taking pictures of a bus" look from several drivers, most noticibly the driver of 9206, but that is normal.
Was riding Orion V CNG 368 today when I heard this loud "pop" and the engine stalled. Well that's a first! It fortunately re-started. Those buses are brand new and already having problems. Well it least it took my mind off of today's sadness.
Wow! What a comparison! Comparing all the poor souls lost with the stalling engine on a bus. Instead of saying something in memoriam for those who are no longer with us, your concentration - again and again and again - was trying to shred LI Bus.
The Q27 "extension" (actually a route diversion) didn't last long. The brand-new Queensborough Community College Transit Center - formerly Parking Lot #5 - has caved in, apparently due to a high water table. My understanding is that no passengers/drivers/buses were involved in the cave-in.
While QCC rebuilds, which may take 3-to-4 weeks, students must once again walk to and from the stop at Springfield Blvd & 56th Avenue.
Speaking of parking lot cave-ins, does anyone remember the Edgewater Pier collapse of the early 1980s? I recall the newspapers showing a fisbbowl with the batwings sticking out of the water resting on what was left of the piers and allegedly there were several buses incuding loaners from Washington abandoned in the waters.
I remember it. The whole thing with Edgewater was a politically-connected land swap with a relative of the then boro-president Maniscalo (I don't remember it, but I've looked it up). No buses were left in the water, and the remains of all the piers that remained at the site were demolished several years back. What's left of the Depot is now a parking lot for Edgewater Plaza.
-Hank
Does anyone have a diagram or drawing of this new diversion
Oh, so THAT'S what happened?
The other morning when I was on the Q44L on my way to school, somebody announced over the depot radio instructing drivers of the Q27 NOT to enter QCC, and to go back to the normal routing instead.
What you heard over the air was not the 'depot radio'. All transmissions via two-way radio for every bus in the 5 boro's comes out of the Surface Command Center, 3rd Floor, above ENY depot. When BLX worked there in the mid 80's, buses had the old RCA radio system that never worked because the TA never fixed them. BLX sat at his console monitoring 2 or 3 depots at a time, and hearing nothing! All the b/o's knew that the only sure way to reach console supervision was via the 800 number. BLX does recall one time hearing a voice come over giving info about a bad accident (multiple injuries) at Sutphin & Jamaica Ave's. It turned out that this was bogus and it probably was some bus buff on a bus out of service. Back then you just spoke into the handset and there was no way of knowing what bus was calling. Now the radio system displays your run/rte/pass # and bus # on the console monitor. Of course if you don't enter run/rte/pass # it won't display but bus # always will. Sometimes the system goes into 'failsoft' whereby all buses now can speak to each other like it was a party line (50's-60's phone reference). All the b/o's will use phony names and for the few minutes that this happens it's pretyy funny listening. One time BLX recalls that a b/o noticed the radio display showing 'failsoft' and immediatley announced over the air 'calling all cars, calling all cars, system is in failsoft'.
Then why do the radios on Stengel buses say "STENGEL", and buses from Jamaica say "JAMAICA", and buses from Queens Village say "QUEENS VILLAGE"? What's the difference if the same message is coming out through every bus?
Because when the b/o hits the 'RTT' button, it goes to the corresponding depot console dispatcher at the Command Center.
RTT = request to talk, PRTT = priority request to talk. When console does a TELLALL, the message will go to all buses in that division. Or, an announcement can be programmed just to transmit over a certain route. BLX says, over and out.
Does anyone have a drawing of this new area,,or can draw something for me??
Thanks
Steve
A picture of the exit area with the sunken roadway (after 1 day of service) can be found on straphangers.org (I believe). Let BLX know if you found it.
Does anyone have an updated diagram of the routing from 56 avenue
Thanks
Steve
the trip on 9/15 to the SI Mall and South Beach has been cancelled due to my sudden staying at my brother's house.I am not gonna travel by bus and train from Long Island to do so therefore it will be done either on Saturday 9/21 or Sunday 9/22.I direct this message primarily to love9400 since he is the one who wished to come with me on this trip.So till the following weekend.sorry for the trouble,if any.
Hey,what happened?I was looking forward to this trip! I even took the Saturday off as a vacation day!OK,I'll just rework my day into next week[if it can].Sorry for your troubles...everything will work out,I'm sure.
my bro came over to my house yesterday and before he left asked me if i wanted to stay at his place and i said yes so here i am.decides,i need a change of scenery every once and awhile.im sorry,next weekend we'll do it no matter what.
It's all good.things happen,and situations change... thats how life is. Get at me when your ready.....
According to CTrabs's Frankford Terminal web site, another SEPTA NABI has gone to bus heaven, cause of death, a fire that started in the rear wheel well and spread to the rest of the bus. The poor vehicle's number is 5155. This joins its long-gone sister 5267 in the scrap pile. May she rust in peace.
They won't rust, they will go to NIMCOS.
Now Thats a FIRE!
Those are some gruesome pictures.
Are you trying to make us cry?
that bus in the second photo looks like septa rts do you have any more of dead bus photos.i am manly look for septa photos!
thank you withn rply
You may probably know, but NJ Transit that I found out from their website has done some schedule adjustments to improve reliability and reduce overcrowding.
The following routes that will be effected by this are: 71, 72, 139, 165, 166, 319, 508, 551, 156, 158, 159, 161, 164, 167, 192, 407, 409, 405, 459, 1, 21, 70, 73, 94, 192, 26, 108, 402, 412, 64, 67, 78, 320, 605, 114, 815, 980, 830, 836, 190, 193, and 744.
Alot of these routes will have buses added during peak hours to reduce overcrowding, some timetables will be eliminated because of low ridership, route #158 during peak hours will have articulated buses on select trips. On the No. 72 Paterson-Newark route, weekday service will be increased during p.m. peak from every 30 minutes to every 25 minutes, inbound to Newark between 3p.m - 5:35p.m. and outbound from Newark between 3:05p.m. - 6:50p.m.
One note is additional seats will be added on various bus routes throughout the system to reduce overcrowding.
New 45-foot "SUPER CRUISER" buses as NJ Transit calls them. I think that's neat. You have the "CRUISER" which is their 40' by 102" wide MCI and you have the "SUPER CRUISER", a 45 foot bus that is 102" wide. These buses will be assigned to routes in Bergen, Middlesex, Passaic and Monmouth counties. The lucky winners for these buses are: routes 68, 131, 133, 137, 138, 166, 192, 193, 194. Routes such as, 139 and 320 have been currently rolling the D4501s.
One other thing. Have any of you guys seen one of the three RTSs that NJ Transit is converting them into Hybrid-Electric like MTA NYC Bus's #6360?
Thank you and have a good day!
-Ronnie
On my way back to the yard yesterday, I spotted a GBL Orion parked off to the side at the paint shop. I was too far away to read the number, but she was not a CNG Orion. I think she's was scheduled to go in the paint booth since she was wearing primer.
[I was too far away to read the number, but she was not a CNG Orion.]
As of now, GBL does not have any CNG buses.
No CNG's at GBL. The Orion you saw is one of those that we used to refer as the WMATA rejects.
Wayne
Today I had a strange thing happen. I boarded the bus to work as usual, this time on Gillig no. 9401. As usual, the Series 50 put me into instant snooze in back. Halfway to the next bus, it broke down, and I awoke from my silence with a "What the hell..?!?". Suddenly it would crank a bit but not start. Very strange.
Not long after, another bus pulls in from the garage. As we all boarded the new one, the other, sitting conked out in the middle of the road, began to roll back, nearly creaming a Ford Ranger. The driver jumped out of our bus so fast that she nearly tripped over her purse! Fortunately, she pulled up the yellow button in time and saved the day.
Not only was I late to work, but I had to go hungry, as I missed breakfast with my usual crew and had to be reassigned for the day. Even better, 9401 is the Virginia Lottery bus. What luck!
An eerie side note: Monday night's Va. Lottery Pick 3 drawing was 911. Exactly.
-F.
So was New York's evening Lottery Pick 3.
So I heard. How strange...
-F.
There's a ( fanfare) ( Phototagraphers click cameras) ( blissful music) New Flyer C40LF ( end all celebration) with that number.
And that's the bus # I got when I 1st rode the B61
B61 New Flyer C40LF #911
Was it before or after that day?
Really? I've gotta see this. Do you have a photo? Get one...
There is also a Gillig at GRTC in Richmond with that number.
-F.
I once had 2 buses break down on me once. Bus kept stalling on the way to Great Neck. We wait for another bus. That bus stalls on the "cliff" here in Sea Cliff, fortunately it restarted.
And when they stall they do roll back. That happened with 368 just yesterday, fortunately luck was on my side, it restarted and did not collide with a car.
Are you sure those aren't CNG's you have there in VA? :-0
Get over the CNG thing, they work fine down here. I rode one this week with no problems and the other run on my route has had a CNG assigned to it for months, no problems. The bus is always there and always running. Have you ever considered the fact that CNG buses are fine and the problem is probably with LIB?
And exactly where was NYCTA New Flyer C40LF #911 on 9-11? It was not anywhere to be found in the five boroughs of New York City.....
Then where was it?
Actually, our TA was to get CNG-powered Orions that year but opted for Series 50-powered Gilligs, which are pure crap. They are the worst buses in the fleet and are always shop warmers.
-F.
You don't mean that Fred. Nothing (and I mean nothing) is worse than an Orion V CNG! The ones at M.T.A. L.I. Bus are sluggish and run like garbage. Course, I don't know about the Mitchel Field buses (they just got a new order).
Really? Well, the 94 Gilligs have not impressed me dependability-wise. For example, usually the 94s are the only ones to be wrapped, but recently the ISL/Voith-powered 2001 models have started to get al-over ads. I asked a friend at Valley Metro about that; after all, why cover up a new paint job that still looks perfect? He replied that the advertisers want something dependable that runs all day.
As a result, no. 0108 carries a snazzy new full wrap for Advance Auto Parts, while 0104 was chosen for a baby wrap in honor of the fallen of 9/11 and used as a shuttle for the all-day memorial service. You should see these...I hope to send a pic of both soon.
-F.
I recall the '88 Gilligs at M.T.A. L.I. Bus, weren't their best buses, but I'll say this much - they were real workhorses. Seems like just yesterday they were getting the luminator signs (I still feel the mylar signs were more visible). Now they exist only in memory and the reserve fleet. I would like to see those pictures. Has the Gillig design changed much?
Actually, the Gillig design has not changed largely, save for drivetrain options. Mostly it has changed in the front door; the 94s go all the way up to the roof, and the 01s have window panes that go from the top to the bottom on each door as opposed to the two-pane setup on earlier Gilligs. Looks more modern and improves visibility. Also, rear end detail is changed; as opposed to the old "GILLIG PHANTOM" nameplate on the back, that portion now houses rear lights, usually LEDs.
Your notes on the LI Gilligs are a lot like mine on the Blacksburg Transit Flx Metros; nothing left but memories and football shuttle service. I hope to coax our museum president into preserving one for our historical fleet, even if it is a 1987 model. I miss those buses.
-F.
It may be a little soon for that, I'm not sure I'd call a 1987 bus a "museum" bus. MTA Long Island Bus scraps equipment prematurely (like always). Right now, they're getting rid of the diesel Orions which are only 12 years old. It broke my heart to see the majority of '78 Flx New Looks get scrapped in '92-'93 (again before their time). I know Hertz Rent-A-Car still uses Gilligs like that, as does Long Beach. I believe they replaced the slopeback RTS's at JFK.
ACK...they scrapped the 78 Flxes? WHY?!? And yeah...a 1987 Flx may be a little young for a museum, but hey...we are also most likely to receive a 1991 Gillig for our museum when they are replaced next year.
-F.
They were allocated money to buy newer equipment. Come to think of it, the diesel Orions that are now getting scrapped were what replaced them. They were no substitute for the '78 Flx New Looks (we referred to them as High-8's because they were numbered 850-902), but even still I'm sorry to see them go and know from now on it will be nothing but CNG. EEEECK!
Tsk, tsk. What a waste of Flxes. Shame, shame! And yes, the CNG Orions were not quite like the "High 8s", I'm sure. I know our Gilligs are nothing like the Flxes they replaced!
-F.
How does one have an ULTRA-RUDE ( It's my new word) NYCT B/O disiplined?
Call 1-888-NYCT-BUS and explain the situation. Be sure to have enough information to identify the Bus Operator, such as:
Date and time of the incident
Route and direction
Bus number
Badge number if displayed (if not displayed, mention that fact)
Run number
Location where incident occurred
David
Thanks David! Now, I'll see that that a**hole gets payback...( grumbles)
Just out of curiosity, what happened?
Don't mention names or anything here, though.
The story goes: I get on a pretty late running BX22 during the AM rush on my way to school. As we approach the metropolitan oval stop, I see a MOB of people at the stop, and as such the bus packs in pretty quickly. When the bus gets to Tremont, the driver says ' move do da bak'. Noone moves cause there is ABSOLUTELY no room. ' EVERYBODY take 3 steps back' the driver says. Some vainly shuffle around searching for nonexistant space. This bus is so packed that the front and back doors have a hard time closing. We proceed to morris park and the driver says 'STOP BEING SO SELFISH AND MOVE THE FUCK BACK!!!!!' ' THERE"S ROOM IN THE DAMN MIDDLE!!!!... SHIT' I am sitting on the turn table and as such can see the entire lenght of the bus, and there was NO space to spare. I even got up and looked for this space this driver spoke of and only saw a dense sea of heads. Finally a teenage girl shouts ' THERE'S NO ROOM YOU BLIND RETARD!!!' STOP PICKING UP PEOPLE!!!!' ' WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT US TO DO?!?!?!?! SIT ON EACH OTHER'S LAPS!?!?!?!' Finally when the bus gets to paul avenue / 205 st, I get off using the front door ( I usually use the back) and take a good look at the run number box, he opens his window, stick his head out and says to me ' Don't you EVEN THINK about it!'
Does anyone disagree with my resenting his behavior?
I kinda do. Whenevere ride the bus, the passengers are always denser than lead and there is PLENTY OF SPACE near the back. I think you should have shoved the people into the back! ;-)
Really though, look at it through the B/O's POW. He or she has to have that kind of s!it every day.
Umm, there was ABSOLUTELY no room on this bus. this includes the back of the bus. I do Not appreciate being threatened, and as such have reported this operator, and said everything in detail that he said, when I called.
You sure? I don't mean to be acting in such an inquisitive manner, but it may have been hard to notice nothing at the back of the bus.
If you say otherwise, don;t worry about it. I'll go with your word. It can be really stressful riding the bus, but remember to say hi and bye to a B/O when you can.
When I stand up, I generally have 3 to 4 inches view over the average person's head. Standing on the turntable, I was able to see all 60 feet of the bus, including the 5 people standing in the rear stairwell, and 4 people in the front stairwell. I don't generally talk to B/O's since most don't like teens, and generally ignore me when I say "Have a nice day".
I know...it seems that way unfortunately.
The bus operator will be called into the office to be notified a complaint is being lodged against him. They will give him a little pep talk and that is as far as it will go. The complaint will go on his permanent record. They may decide to put some undercovers on his bus to see if they can witness his rudeness to the customers first hand. If caught he will be disciplined with possibly a 3 day suspension as I believe he should be, if what you are telling is the truth. Otherwise, it is simply your word against his. From my experience, it is hard for customers jammed in the front to see available space in the rear, even when they look back there for some. The B/O is sitting on a platform and has a much better view of the area after the rear door which is 99% of the time available with only 2 or 3 people standing back there, while everybody else is jammed onto the front steps. I suspect that is what the B/O probably noticed while you may not have.
BIG AL
I counted about 6 people in that little square that is right over the 3rd axle. That's the most people I've ever seen stand in that generally undesiarable standing space. Also, the circular mirror over the front door was missing and the rectangular one was just flopping around, anking that mirror useless. The center mirror is the only one that coach 5395 had that day. The operator was probably speaking out of habit, since what you say about crowding patterns is often very true.
It's obvious he needs to be taken off the road and enrolled in anger management classes or just plain fired. I can understand the stress he was under, but that's no reason to take it out on the passengers and using curse words. That's just disgraceful. I'm a bus operator for Brookhaven Town and if I did that, I would be fired instantly.
If you really want to make a B/O sweat, copy down the bus number and run number (Or whatever the TA control number represents) and make sure the B/O sees you writing it down. It might give the B/O pause and wonder if (s)he is going to be turned in.
"Fear of death is worse than death itself."
I think it's a Chinese expression. I remember it from the TV program King Fu with David Carradine.
how about all the ultra rude customers that think they can sh*t all over the driver.
Foul language is unacceptable over the PA system!!!
foul language is always unacceptable, especially from customers
As a NYCT b/o for 5 1/2 years (started late 70's), let me tell about the a-holes who never move to the rear. There were times when BLX sat in the bus stop and told passengers I wouldn't move until they moved back, and they stayed put. BLX knew there was room in the back! Should BLX drive with people in the front stepwell, so he couldn't see out the doors? BLX picked up anyone that could fit because back then there might not be another bus for who knows how long! Now the b/o changes the sign 'Next Bus Please' and chances are good that another one is only minutes behind. You are right, the b/o shouldn't curse, but maybe on the previous trip he had someone who yelled, spit, complained, jammed the f/b by putting coins in the m/c slot, etc. Besides those that refused to move to the rear, BLX refused to accept a transfer or add-a-ride that someone was holding with their lips, yes, their mouth! Back then, the walkman wasn't invented yet. Boom boxes that were huge would be brought on the bus and blasted BLX and other passengers with loud disco music. Big bus hits from the summer of 79 were: Ring My Bell and Hot Stuff/Bad Girls. Anyway, if this particulor b/o is rude again, by all means he shouldn't have a job that deals with the public. And let BLX tell you, I met many b/o's that couldn't deal with public interaction. A simple question would tick them off. BLX would tell them, stop complaining or go get another job! Peace out and Happy New Year to all my Hebrew transit purists.
"Big bus hits from the summer of 79 were: Ring My Bell and Hot Stuff/Bad Girls."
Ohhhhhhhh!!!!!! Talk about a slice of heaven, especially on a GMC or Flxible New Look!
Seriously, I really wish I could've lived in the 70's - I love disco, and I would've loved riding all the subway trains and buses of the time!
Yeah before all this horrible (and popular) rap music. That is just my opinion.
Uhh...rap. It's essentially crap without the 'c'.
I still can't believe Jammin' 105 (disco, 70's soul/pop/rock) was replaced by Power 105 ([c]rap). Isn't Hot 97 enough???
At least we still have "Smooth Jazz" CD 101.9
And 98.7 "Kiss FM" isn't half bad either.
Power 105 is owned by Clear Channel Communications - in NYC, they control all the major stations - KTU 103.5, Z100 100.3, Q-Rock 104.3, Lite-FM 106.7 and now Power 105 105.1
Power 105 was introduced so as to challenge the dominance of HOT 97 in the Hip-Hop/R&B genre, and Jammin wasn't doin well enough as is to have kept it. Part of the genre was transferred to KTU with one DJ - The Duke Johnny Allen. Clear Channel has way more $$ funding than Hot 97, and thus wanted to dominate the NYC market with all genres.
Remember i had posted saying Ulmer Park had 4 buses parked in the back of the garage with no labels? Guess what? They are 4700's(or 4800's) and the total is now up to 6. These buses are being scrapped as parts get moved to other buses. Also, be warned about #7519, the wheelchair piece fell off on my friends run on 9/11(run 012). Is Ulmer Park due replacement buses sometime within my lifetime? It would be nice.
B1-#9338-NOVABUS
B64-#9321-NOVABUS
While on a bus trip with some of my bus friends on Monday, we took NJ Transit Route 88 from Journal Square (Jersey City) and wound up on the bus owned by the one independent operator remaining on the Kennedy Boulevard routes. That operator is named Haley's Express, and the driver was actually Mr. Haley! The bus, which is clearly an ex-NYCTA bus with express (soft) seats, has been numbered 021 by Mr. Haley. Upon inspection of the front inside, we saw that it was formerly numbered 3874. I posted two photos in:
http://communities.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity
From the home page, click on "pictures" on the left side and my Album should be at or near the top.
The seats were quite comfortable and the bus seemed to ride nicely. All of the other buses on Route 88 that day were 1000 series RTS's in NJTransit colors but operated by Academy/22 Hillside LLC.
3874 served it's final days out of Jamaica depot where it was retired. I knew the bus was getting sold verus scrapped as only the numbers were taken off, but no parts removed. The bus had a brand new paint job on it when retired and was the best looking bus I have ever seen to be retired.
BIG AL
From wtopnews.com:
Metro's Chief Plans Improvement for Rail, Bus
(Washington) -- Metro General Manager Richard White is unveiling his plan for improved and more accessible public transit.
White wants the Metro Board to commit to a capital improvement plan of more than $12 billion. The ten-year proposal covers the needed facilities and equipment to accommodate a 42 percent increase in ridership. Metro projects an average daily load of $1.6 million passengers.
White's plan calls for making 75-percent of Metro's subway fleet eight car trains capable of carrying 25,000 passengers per hour. The subway fleet would increase by about 300 additional cars, an increase in capacity of about 32-percent.
The bus fleet would be increased by a comparable amount with the addition of 460 buses.
The Post has a slightly more in-depth article outlining the proposed Metrotram lightrail and busway lines, the move to eight-car subway trains, and the attendant capital/infrastructure improvements necessary.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10635-2002Sep12.html
C
Hi Im more of a subtalker than a bustalker However this evening about 7 PM I was on my way to get some pizza on Northern Blvd and 81 st, I saw a Green Bus Lines bus on Northern Blvd. I was like what the hell is this bus doing on NORTHERN Blvd instead of QUEENS Blvd? the bus # was 242. Any idea where it came from? It was going twords the city or some where in that direction.
Another place to see buses from many lines is Woodhaven Blvd.
There's a hot dog guy next to the cemetary that will give you indigestion while you're bus watching.
Or, you could have a few at Kate Cassidy's, and then you'll be seeing old looks and fishbowls!
Probably a Q60 bus going back to the depot via Northern Blvd and van Wyck Expwy...possibly!
That's nothing. On Friday, I saw a Triboro Coach fishbowl on Queens Blvd. True.
That must have been their museum bus, #621.
Why does the M1 use 39th and 40th Streets to get between Park and Madison/Fifth? Wouldn't 42nd make more sense?
The guide-a-ride strip maps for the SB M1, BTW, show it using 39th Street, which is one-way the wrong way. Only the NB M1 actually uses 39th. And where did I spot this gaffe? On 40th itself at 5th.
The problem with using 42nd is that you have the overhang of the roadway that goes through Grand Central Terminal. Also, the street narrows because of the roadway that goes through. There probably isn't enough space to make the turns. Also, there is a lot of service on 42nd street anyway with the M104 and M42.
Michael
David,
I believe it goes back to the 5th Avenue Coach days. There were two M-1's back then one was a 5th Avenue Line which operated on 5th Ave.
The other one was on Madison Ave and was operated by 5th Ave Coach(was formely NYC Omibus) and operated on Madison Ave and Park/4th Ave.
This route also operated via 40th Street(southbound) and 39th St(northbound). Back then 42nd Street was a Surfice Transit Operation and they tried to keep the lines seperate even though they had the same ownership
When MABSTOA wass formed it remained and the only change was the consolidation when 5th and Madison Aves were made one way in the mid 60's
This is speculation on my part
Hope this helps
Thank You
Actually the original route of the NYC Omnibus Rte #1 used 42nd Street between Park and Madison (which was then a 2 way avenue). The route was shifted to 39th and 40th Streets around 1960, even before MABSTOA took over, which is of course even before the 5th and Madison routes were combined in Jan. 1966 when 5th and Madison became one way avenues.
The 5th Ave. Coach #1 route had by the early 1950's degenerated into a once-a-day trip to hold the franchise because Rtes 2, 3, and 4 provided plenty of service below 110th Street, and above 110th the 1 and 2 on Madison Avenue provided more than enough service in that neighborhood.
Anyway, the reason for the shift away from 42d Street is to avoid making any turns from 5th Ave SB onto 42d Street - would cause backups due to heavy pedestrian crossing at the intersection, where all turns are already banned except for certain buses. Same thing would occur on 42d St WB onto Madison NB. And yes...the intersection of Park and 42d is contricted because of the elevated roadway on Park Ave., and also now because the block between 42 and 41 along Park SB is already closed to all traffic.
And the one time I took the M1 all the way to South Ferry, the trip on 40th Street took about 15 or 20 minutes to go the two blocks. I don't see much time saved no matter which route you use. How about the bus grows wings and flies over the buildings from 5th to Park. That might save time.
I had suspected the reason was a historical routing. Well, that was in the past, and 42nd would serve passengers better, so IMO a move to 42nd should be strongly considered. None of the turns are too tight for buses to make, and the single lanes on 39th and 40th ensure the M1 takes longer than it would fighting the pedestrians at 42nd.
I believe that Park Ave. southbound is now permanently closed to all traffic between 41st and 42nd. It was cordoned off the last time I was down that way (about a month ago).
CG
Why is it closed? There is nothing in that area thats important. Grand Central Terminal is across the street on 42nd St.
I'm pretty sure (though not 100% certain, since I was walking on the north side) I saw traffic there last Thursday.
Well, this could be a problem on the Guide-A-Ride map but as for the M1 on 42nd St.....ah, no. The turn on to E 42nd St with the M1, M42 and M104? No way! Too much traffic in a small space...plus that infamous construction site on Madison Av and E 42nd St....no way! Good idea though but bad traffic. What would be a better idea is to have the M2 and M3 buses make a left at 23rd St instead of 25th St. During my days at baruch College....too many Garbage trucks and other trucks double-parking on 25th St between Park and madison. That's a PAIN!!! However, good idea though.
When you live in a borough for a long period of time and you know the buses in your borough, don't you get that tingling feeling inside when you go to another borough? For me, it was really a tingling feeling! I would ask my Dad to take us on a family outing into Manhattan to sightsee. It was fun on many occasions! As a matter of fact, I remember seeing the GMC RTS-04 (1981) 2400's domainate Manhattan (hence the MaBSTOA). It gave me a feeling of discovering new buses and connecting the numbers to each borough. I see buses #1705-1767 throughout Queens and then I see buses #1680 (or #1690) to #1704 at 126th St and/or Hudson Bus Depots. Very interesting time for me at the age of 5 (Summer of 1984.....I turned 6 in November of 1984). Enjoy the memories! More to come....in fact, #7 is next post!
You know, it's really great to hear all these wonderful stories about city equipment, but why are we limiting the stories to just RTS's? I prefer to relive the "Glory Days" when GM and Flx New Looks were king. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know out of what depot 5549 originated?
We'd need to know it's original fleet number. Before it was Blitzed it was likely one of the TA T6H-5310A's in the 61XX or 69XX series.
Wayne
I'm sure you're right. Unfortunately I only knew 5549 in its final days at M.S.B.A. Was I ever sorry to see that one go...
Yes, you're so right. I grew up in MABSTOA territory (The Bronx) and I was very anxious to find out what was going on with TA buses. I knew a bit because I used to live near West farms Sq and I always saw the Q44. I rea;ized very early that the Q44 buses were "different". I had an aunt that we used to visit in Queens Village - so I got to know a little about Queens buses and it went on from there when I was in my teen years and was free to travel alone.
Wayne
I got on the b1 this morning to go to work. I got off at 86th Street and Stillwell ave to cathc the b3, when i realized i left my wallet on the bus. I got the B3 to 25th Avenue and 86th street and caught up to a B1 run starting out. I told him my story and he contacted console to let the driver of the bus i left my wallet on the situation(luciky i remembered the number and the run)-the driver found it. I was able to catch up the driver's bus and get my wallet back-with EVERYTHING IN TACT. Thank you to run 005 on the B1 this morning for finding the wallet and run 027 on the B1 for calling console to help me.
B1-#9332-NOVABUS-run 005
B1-#9320-NOVABUS-run 027
An idea: call 1-888-NYCT-BUS and make your commendation official. I'm sure the drivers in question would appreciate it.
Definitely follow Gotham Bus Co's advice and call (or write) the TA regarding your incident.
You'd be giving two B/O's a richly deserved commendation by the TA.
I've analyzed all of the boro maps and I have one important question.
I notice that the separate bus routes on the main map are given a color, like blue, teal, yellow. etc...Forget the shapes, since I know they represent the various bus companies that run them.
What I'm going for is why are they given those colors? What do they mean? Also does Michael Hertz Associates (the firm that makes the Subway 'The Map') make the bus maps as well?
Finally, an odd bus sighting? For the ladt 3 days, I've spotted an Orion at Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue around 7 AM. It bus # 111, probably comes from Casey Stengel. It's signed as Q20 - Reeves Ave. Huh?
The Q-20 to Reeves Ave is a school tripper from the 7 train to John Bowne HS.
I'm guessing that the color-coding is similar to the 1970s subway maps: no two routes that run on the same street are given the same color, so it's easier to tell which is which when they diverge.
[What I'm going for is why are they given those colors? What do they mean? Also does Michael Hertz Associates (the firm that makes the Subway 'The Map') make the bus maps as well?]
The colors are assigned randomly. (At one point, however, a "policy" decision was made for the Manhattan map: red was reserved for Fifth/Madison routes, and navy blue was reserved for crosstowns.)
Also, Transit has a dedicated unit for developing the bus and subway system maps, so Hertz's involvement is probably limited to the railroad side of "The Map."
- - - - -
[Finally, an odd bus sighting? For the last 3 days, I've spotted an Orion at Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue around 7 AM. It bus # 111, probably comes from Casey Stengel. It's signed as Q20 - Reeves Ave. Huh?]
That was one of 8 supplemental trips which help cover student arrivals at John Bowne High School. Those trips run along Main Street from Roosevelt Avenue to Reeves Avenue, where Bowne H.S. just happens to be. Since those trips don't come from College Point, they really don't qualify as Q20A or Q20B, so they're just Q20.
Francis Lewis High School could use some of those "Supplemental Trips" from Flushing. It could be the Q17A and pick up in the space between the Q27 and Q17, where the Q27L picks up in the evening hours.
I was looking at the Q20 Schedule and I did not find not 1 School Tripper in the schedule. Can somebody give me the list of the school trippers for thr Q20/Q44?
BLX says: direct this question to Gotham Bus Company who keeps all schedules in a pocket sized format on himself at all times. Long live BLX and all those that dream of a transit system for the people, not the politicians. Talk to BLX, he's user friendly!
Gotham Bus Company? Has BLX been watching a Honeymooners marathon?
"Gotham Bus Company," or more precisely "Gotham Bus Co.," is the handle of someone who posts here.
David
Call up and get the Re Caps for the Q 44 line . The School Trippers will be on it . 1-888 Nyct- Bus
Today. When I got on 5530 on Q60. I saw that it have that old farebox sticker on it with the Express Bus Fare Showing it as $4 Peak,$3.50 Off Peak and the 1/2 Fare was $4 Peak and $2 Off Peak.
Is it relly $3.50 to ride the Express Bus doing the off peak hours before the Express Bus Fares went down?
I rember used to rideing the QM1A for $4 on Off Peak and it was not relly $3.50. And I used to rember haveing #39 and #36x on the QM1A a bit before the fare drop on a snuday. Both where fast buses
Have the new artic buses arrived in New york yet? Haven't seen any new artic in Manhatten yet.
I wasn't on the computer for the past couple of days due to work and I was off September 11th watching the news and coverage of the memorial services, but I did see some interesting things over the past couple of days.
Today Friday I saw something I thought I would not see, an 8800 series Flxible with a bike rack. It was 8866 out of Four Mile Run and the only 8800 so far with one. The rest might be done after all of the other buses are done. I also spotted 9310, now seemingly operating out of Four Mile Run, with no bike rack. Also some buses still have their flags on, notably 9405, 4317, 4308 and a about four New Flyers (forgot the numbers).
The rest of the week (from Tuesday on) were basically bike rack sightings, in that all of Four Mile Run's Flxible, 9200s and up have bike racks, with Arlington being next. 8866 as I said earlier has also a bike rack.
I have seen and read that WMATA wants to expand in a big way. I hope it is done, but some local officials have expressed doubt in the plan. All I can say is, I know budgets are tight, but if these governments want to keep their tax base and to keep people from moving out of the area, they must find a way to fund this ambitious plan. I think WMATA is following Maryland's lead when Govenor Glendening proposed his plans. To relieve traffic the local officials must find a way, I think the general public will understand, as most would rather see a bus rolling their street, than seeing two or more lanes added.
I accidentally posted this on another post so if you read the other post, just disregard that one. I also saw ex-Bladensburg 2061 on a Landover route (F8) and are still seeing B30 buses on non-B30 routes. I am wondering why they (1)took 2/3 of Landover's 30' Orions and (2) why they retired their Gilligs, apparently they were still needed and on top of that they had just put in new electronic destination signs.
I also saw another 8800 with a bike rack as well. It was 8873, I believe. It went by so fast, I couldn't really catch it as I was going the opposite direction, but the first two numbers were definitley 88.
It would be great to see the bus network expand here. I've always thought that bus routes could successfully parallel rail as long as they don't overdue it and have easy access so that it doesn't take three times as long to do it. This may lead to over the road coaches to pop up. Since WMATA drivers are used for PRTC, its too bad WMATA just can't take them over all together.
Remember the T6. It used to run up Rockville Pike, paralleling the red line up towards the Rockville Metro Station, terminating at Montgomery College. They used to use 60' alot, running every 10 mins.
I rode it a couple of times, when I went to the movies at Congressional Plaza. Back then the rail and bus divisions were seperate and this route got the ax, when it was deemed to be to close to that red line segment. I think if this route was spared, it might have been running every 5 minutes or less, still using 60'.
The route was ended because it was too long and too unreliable. It is now Ride-On routes 42 and 46.
Before the T6 terminated at Frienship Heights, it used to run all the way to Dupont Circle. That must have been one heck of a run to do. There used to be a lot of other "T" lines, too. The T4 used to run to Montgomery College and down Manakeee Street away from 355. There was also a T1 and a T7, too.
When I was going to Montgomery College, it was a couple of years before the T6 was eliminated. I used to take the C2 from Hyattsville to Twinbrook, then catch either the T6 or the Z4, when it ran from Silver Spring to MC. It later became the C6, which is now the Ride On 10, boy that route has been through a lot! But, I used to get a whole array of buses, Fishbowls, Flx New Looks, RTS, some artics. I left MC in '92 and went to UMD, but missed those rides. That is the time when a Flx New Look Suburban ended up on the Q2 one afternoon during rush hour.
What were T1 and T7? I have an old T4 schedule having it go from Bethesda to White Flint, IIRC.
The T1 ran up until the early 80's around the Country Club up on River Road, the Connelly School and Friendship Heights.
The T7 ran from DC to Mid Pike Plaza, which had a park and ride lot years ago. I believe it was called "Montrose" then.
The T4 eventually just ran from Bethesday to Twinbrook was more of a big time bus line when it ran from Montgomery College all the way downtown.
Its nice to see WMATA talking about doing those kinds of runs again. THere is a new 16Y starting up that will run from Columbia Pike in Arlington to McPherson Square. Hopefully, that gets a good amount of patronage.
I remember a post about the T1 some time ago. I guess it was a predecessor to Ride-On 36 although it didn't run on Bradley Boulevard.
I question how much patronage those runs are going to get. I think a situation to that of the Queens Boulvard IND subway lines in NYC might develop. On QB, people don't want to take the V train because it is just slightly slower than the E, even though it means they get a one seat ride to their destination. The same might happen with the longer distance bus routes. Take a look at the N7 for example. My suggestion would be that they should run non-stop once they get closer into the city to make them faster and more inviting. Also, they should consider using suburban style seating as a way to promote the buses.
I guess one idea would be to work in cooperation with Ride-On and integrate Ride-On routes into MetroBus routes into DC. An example I thought of was Ride-On 47. Take the existing 47 route, make it swap with the 38 in Potomac so the 47 runs on Gainsborough Road and the 38 on Seven Locks, 38 remains unchanged otherwise, then after the 47 stops at Bethesda, send it non-stop down into the District. The 47 now runs right through Potomac, picking up commuters who might otherwise take the 37 to Grosvenor to take the train.
I think that's right with the 36. I believe it did take over the T1 route.
I agree about the N7, that bus is an excrutiatingly long ride from DC to Montgomery Mall. The N9 was so much better as it ran up Canal Street to the Clara Barton Pkwy, I believe, then on to the Beltway. The only stops it made were from Federal Triangle to K st. just before it headed over the Whitehurst Frwy. Using suburban style coaches probably would be more inviting. I like the idea of a one seat ride rather than paying the fare on the bus riding it for however long to the metro, then having to transfer to that, which could have been used to continue on that trip.
The Ride On 70 could be another candidate to get people to even Friendship Heights or further down Wisconsin. Now that it doesn't go through NIH anymore, just have it stay on 355 and anyone that needs to get off at Bethesda still can and it can just continue South.
Have you tried the 47 since its new routing? I wonder how that will work out. Its in competition with the J routes from Bethesda Station now.
There was a 70 stop sign at Friendship Heights for a few weeks several years ago at the 23/27 bay. Needless to say, the 70 never showed up there. The 70 wouldn't end at Friendship Heights but would have to then continue onwards into DC. Actually, if they did that, I would suggest they discontinue the 42, which is now a pointless route. The 34 should be extended to Friendship Heights, although this would cause competition with the L7 when it runs.
The 47 does not compete with the J buses. The 47 replaces the 35's job of feeding people into Medical Center from that part of Bethesda. People who were originally fed into Grosvenor now go to Bethesda or take the 6 to Grosvenor. The J buses's primary job is to link Silver Spring with Bethesda, Rock Spring, NIH, and Montgomery Mall. I have not ridden the new 47 and in order to do so, my commute would become longer.
The N7 is fine operating on Mass Ave although they should try rerouting it back to the parkway now that the N3 (really the N1) is back. Express fares need to be gotten rid of if anyone will take one of these long distance bus routes or if local fares rise, expresses need to stay at 2 dollars.
The T1 didn't operate on Bradley though, did it? I thought it went on River.
I was looking through the Ohio Museum production list, and while looking at the Flxible production lists, I spotted something interesting. I saw WMATA 4000, a Flxible Metro E delivered 9/94. Number one, I am surprised that WMATA would need a demostrator from Flxible, since they were their supplier since 1986 and number two didn't see it. Did this bus see revenue service? What is the reason why Metro didn't keep this bus? What is the history of this bus?
I have one more question, does anyone know how to transfer a pic from a picture CD to this site, and help would be appreciated.
Also 2061 was spotted on a Landover route and there are still B30 buses on non-B30 routes. I thought that since they got some buses from Bladensburg, this will stop, but it hasn't. That's what they get for taking 2/3 of Landover's 30' Orions and retiring the Gilligs.
I have one more question, does anyone know how to transfer a pic from a picture CD to this site, and help would be appreciated.
You'll need a web host that allows images to be remotely loaded (a lot of the free hosts, like Yahoo GeoCities, no longer allow this; if you use GeoCities, etc., it may be easier to link to the image than try to incorporate it in a post). Many ISPs give their users a few MBs of web space.
Open the PictureCD file in an image-editing program like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro and save it as a JPEG.
Upload the JPEG to your web space . . . your hosting provider/ISP should provide instructions on how to do this by FTP.
In a BusTalk post, insert the following HTML code:
Obviously, replace the fake URL with the actual path to your image.
Chris
Whoops. Apparently my use of the < code > tag didn't work. OK, let's try that again --
You would insert the following code in your BusTalk post:
< img src="http://www.yourserver.com/yourdirectory/yourimage" >
. . . but . . . eliminate the space after the first bracket and the space before the last bracket. I had to add those spaces so that browsers wouldn't treat that line as actual HTML code (and try to load an image).
C
Thanks again.
Thanks
Does anyone here know when the newest Bklyn. Bus Map will be available? The New B13 and B47 needs to be shown, instead of the B18, B40, and B78. I want to see this map as soon as possible.
-
B13- RTS #9596
This weekend I'm heading to Pennsylvania to visit my relatives. Can anyone here tell me how the transit is like over there? Its been awhile since I've been out of NYC, I finally get to see other buses besides the ones here.
I'm heading to Allantown(as well as crossing other parts of PA), anyone here know about their Transit(if they have any)?
Also I'll probably get to see NJT buses as well during this trip.
I'll probably have more questions when I come back this Sunday night.
If you can, see if you can visit AmTran (Altoona Metro Transit). They're really a great bunch of people and from what I understand, they still have a few 1975 Fishbowls.
I've seen New Flyer low floors of some sort in Allentown on the route that goes by Dorney Park, no idea what route or the length of the buses.
There are about 60 New Flyers operating in Allentown/Bethlehem for LANTA. It's almost a 50/50 split between D35LF and D40LF models.
In Bethlehem, there are some buses. I've no idea what company, but I seem to remember the color scheme was a red and blue stripe.
The system in Allentown and Bethlehem is called "Metro". However, it used to be called "LANTA", which stood for "Lehigh and Northampton Transit Authority", which referred to the 2 counties they serve.
Right! LANTA METRO was what was written on the side!
During my time in PA, I've seen a grey RTS(30 footer, I think) with a red and blue stripe on the side, but I didn't get to see what bus company it was from. Is there any site that has picture of PA buses, because I want to get a better look at those buses.
Keep in mind that Pennsylvania is a big state, with many different bus systems. There's SEPTA, which covers Philadelphia and suburbs, PATransit, which covers the Pittsburgh area, there's Red Rose Transit, which covers Lancaster, etc., etc. Anyhow, I believe you are referring to LANTA, so here's the link to their site:
LANTA's Website
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think LANTA has any RTS's. Do you you what town you were in?
I think it was Pottstown thats I've seen that bus in.
Well, Pottstown is served by both SEPTA and a local system. SEPTA's equipment does nit fit your description, so it might be the local company.
Pottstown's Local Bus System
Yep, in that homepage you gave me is what I seen. Also that bus stop sign is exactly what I saw in Pottstown.
Also it says that there is one route that goes to Coventry Mall, I believe I was there on Saturday.
The grey RTS (a 35 footer) with the red and blue stripe is indeed a PUT (Pottstown Urban Transit) bus, one of about a total fleet of 8 buses.
You seem to be describing the buses of Pottstown Urban Transit, which operates local bus service within Pottstown and neighboring townships. PUT - which supplements SEPTA routes 93 and 99 service from Norristown - operates 7 35-ft RTS buses.
Do you have a picture of one of those buses? There's only 7 buses for the PUT? Then how many buses does SEPTA have?
-Jay
Guess...
Clue, It's a 1989 TMC RTS
Easy. That's an RTS T80 206 of Kansas City Area Transportation Authority. They label their buses "The Metro" with a cute little arrow logo; it's often referred to as "ATA". Route 24 is one of their heaviest routes, travelling on US-24 (Independence Avenue) at 10-15 minute headways all day. Right now, their fleet is largely RTSs, with some 1996 Gillig Phantoms, and some new Gillig Advantage T2-40 low floors coming in.
I SWEAR that looks like a mirror image of a NYCTA RTS! Coincidence?
-F.
Yes...
BIG AL
P.S. (off topic) I saw a 1977 orange Volare Roadrunner for the first time in years yesterday. I immediately thought of you Flex. If I had my camera I would have snapped a picture for you. Car was in good, but not great condition.
You should've seen the old color scheme for the Long Beach Transit buses in Southern California. Even the interiors looked like a NYCTA bus. Seat placement was the same as well.
Not anymore though. Color scheme changed.
Yes, it is from Kansas City, MO. I took it when it was turning at an intersection. Sure, it is like a NYCTA RTS and I was surprised that time.
During the stay in Kansas City, we took a 1999 Gillig Phantom on Rt101 to Minneasota then a 1993 RTS on Rt.106 back to Downtown to have lunch. After lunch, we took some pictures inside the Downtown area.
Then we jumped on a 1996 Gillig again on Rt.51 to Ward Parkway because we want to spot some Johnson County buses. Although we didn't have a schedule on hand, we still boarded on a 2000 Gillig on Rt.G. We got a schedule on the bus and realized that it was the last Cummute bus.
If we did't get down at 95th and Metcalf to catch the last KCATA Rt.249 bus at 6:28pm, we would be stuck in no where. We got an Eldorado Mini bus back to 88th and State Line, where we caught a Gillig Low Floor on Rt.51 back to Downtown. It was also the last scheduled bus from 88th.
The driver told us that she wasn't going to the Downtown area, so she let us off at the Union Station. After spending some time in Union Station, we got on a 1989 RTS on Rt.56 then a 1993 RTS on Rt.24 back to Greyhound Station.
Here's another pic of 8916 after turning left.
A 2002 Gillig Low Floor.
Stephen
PS. Cool~RTS T80 206, you know the system pretty well. :)
The only difference I saw is that it has the pantograph doors in the rear, a tail pipe with triangulare exhausts on the side of the bus in the rear rather than the newer ones with a full rectangular shell, and no amber emergency lights.
I love the electronic run number box on the 2002 Gillig Low Floor. If NYCT had those in their buses, life for the sld's would be so much easier. Great pictures overall.
BIG AL
Look pretty darn close to a NYCTA RTS. Some taletale signs are lack of emergency lights, pantograph exit doors, dark window tint which NYCTA only had on the Grumman 870, 1981 & 1982 RTS, extra turn indicators near the wheels and NYCTA hasn't used that type of mirror (on the passenger side) since the late 70's on the GM and Flxible new looks.
Wayne
That extra turn signal you see may actually be a kneeling light. If you will notice, there is no kneeling light in the usual spot as on the NYCT RTS's.
BIG AL
I think I saw an RTS bus from said TA while watching Fight Club, but I may be wrong...
Why did they cut it back? There was nothing wrong with that bus going to Mott Haven. They have a few buses terminating there already.
Probably so that the Bx1 and Bx2 could end at the same place (Lincoln & 136th).
Is any of the Orion 7 still running in MTA?if yes, which one and which rt would it appear?
Regards
Kevin
NYTC
Last Time I saw the HEV Orion 7 was on the Bx19 in the Bronx.
I do believe that Orion 7 CNG is at JG Depot.
-AcelaExpress2005
I've seen it at jackie gleason depot are there more of this buses coming to Jackie gleason depot?
I don't think anymore will be coming until next year, because JG just received some RTS buses from ENY.
-AcelaExpress2005
According to TransiTalk, JG will have Orion VII CNG 7560-7619.
when orion 7 comes to jackie gleason depot are the flyers leaving? arethe 84-85 series leaving?
The flyers have to stay at JG since they can't be fueled anywhere else except Zerega and that means having to go from GH to Zerega and back every time to fuel up. The other buses that are at JG are leaving (RTSs, right?).
I think thr R.T S buses will leave when The orion 7 comes in this depot is suppose to be 100 percent C.N.G. I enjoy the mixed type of buses runnig out of there I live in the area close to 5th avenue , I would like to know when these buses The Orion 7 will make there appearance they should of been here already,getting inpatient.
Then the buses from eny depot was a borrow? Where will those RTS buses go?
According to what I read here on Bus-Talk that is what will Happen which puts a Question in my mind maybe someone could answer If Gleason Depot is suppose to be all C.N.G that would mean more Orion 7 buses would be assigned or will they keep some of the R.T.S buses still here very interesting scenerio to come would it not?Wonder if anybody could take a shot at that one.I like living in this area cause we have the newest Equipment in the city.I also notice 610 the orion 5 C.N.G with a new paint job I think it was the first C.N.G bus to be painted could anyone fill me in on that?
Re 610: yes she is indeed the very first CNG-powered NYCT bus to receive a complete repainting and overhaul at Zerega; hopefully most if not all of the CNG Orion Vs will get the same treatment.
Re the Orion VII CNGs: theoretically their arrival will finalise the total conversion of Gleason to an all-CNG depot; only time will tell. Now we just need to find out when they'll finally begin building and delivering them.
I thought from what I was reading they were soppose to be here in the fall. They have a C.N.G 7560 here already and a hybrid Electric in Service in the Bronx. It shouldnt be to long after that these buses will begin to arrive unless the they fail the in Service testing.
Th Orion VII HEV is numbered 6365. CNG #7560 has not been in NYC since June; where she is presently and when she will return is anyone's guess.
Thank you for the info. I will be on the lookout for 7560 and her sisters in the future. I live near bye Gleason Depot so as soon as I spot it I will Post it Thanks again
According to a reliable contact, it's not at JG depot at this time...I'll check back again tomorrow...
Cleanairbus
We all agree most of the old rts buses are garbage, they need to retired. In 1981 they where the hottest thing, now they are not. But if they take the 4600/4700 from fp, they wouldn't have any buses, because fp will not be getting any new buses. Maybe someone will come up with a new series of buses for fresh pond or ulmer park or even east new york and get 45,46,47 series out of the depot and into retirement yard. But I don't think so. There even coming back to jackie gleason depot and I thought they would be the only depot that doesn't have rts in brooklyn, but I guest not.
The are not. IMO, they are one of the best bus orders ever in NYC, well asides the Fishbowls...
I will miss those rounded buses....;-)
I'll drink to that. Bartender, another Pepsi Blue, please...this one's for the RTS and the Fishbowl. Make it a big one!
-F.
Care for another order, sir? lol
Hope thids part of the thread doesn't go off the deep end.
Hell yeah, I'm addicted to that blue Pepsi too! Its much better than that Pepsi Twist.
Amen...good stuff!
-F.
No, we don't all agree that RTSs are garbage. We might agree that they're BORING (at least in New York City) since there are so many of them, but by and large they're not garbage. They have proven, over 21 years of operation by NYCT and a couple more by Green, Jamaica, etc., to be solid buses that are capable of standing up to NYC's sometimes horrible street conditions.
David
Boring? No way...I LOVE 'em! And they actually have a dash of excitement styling-wise compared to the crackerboxes of today! Let's put it this way...would you rather see Gilligs in NYC? :)
-F.
Actually, I would prefer the GM and Flx New Looks to make a comeback :o) Another round of Pepsi Blue please. BOTTOMS UP!
Damn right...on BOTH counts!!!
-F.
And also 1852 was on the M6 yesterday. I was eating my lunch on 6th Ave and 43 St when it crawled by. I was able to get 2 pics of it when it made its return trip to South Ferry at Times Square.
1852-keeps on chuggin.
#1852 M6
"I was eating my lunch on 6th Ave and 43 St when it crawled by"
I would have lost my lunch! ;)
I don't know why JG accepted those 46 & 80 series RTS buses, I like the 86 series buses, maybe they should of sent 5230-5249 back to JG along with some 90 series buses.
-AcelaExpress2005
JG "accepted" the buses because JG had no choice. The Chief Maintenance Officer of the Department of Buses and his staff decide which NYCT buses go where, not the depots.
David
What are you talking about? The RTS gave great service for years,before the TA decided to use differnt models. The RTS model served almost every transit system in the US and Canada.
I agree 100%!
-AcelaExpress2005
[The RTS model served almost every transit system in the US and Canada]
The RTS is a great bus, but there are very, very few systems in Canada that ever had RTS's.
And that's what made that country great!
Yes that's true. The RTS only came about because of the ADB law. If it wasn't for that, there would be alot more Fishbowls in this country. I'm kinda sorry the ADB came about. The RTS is alright, but it's just not the same as the New Look.
I hate the RTS! It shakes like crazy! Look at the mirrors on an RTS, they vibrate so much that the driver constantly has to readjust them. It's even worse than sitting on the last engine row of seats on a D60. It's a giant vibrator I tell you!
We are tired of rts bus over 20 years of these buses fixing up, giving them paint jobs, I still see series 1900, 3900 on the street. New york has always been different. In the 70 nyc has so many different gmc buses fishbowl, batwings, etc. Everywhere you see on the street are rts buses 79% of New York city buses are rts. Some of us want to see a change in buses. Alot of them rts buses do need to be taken of the road and stop repainting then to look new on the outside and rotten inside.
I'm not saying RTS's are the final word in buses, but they're alot more aesthetically pleasing than the buses being manufactured today. Look at the Orion V CNG for example. IT'S A BOX! Absolutely no ingenuity went into the design and the lack thereof shows true. The New Flyers the same. Despite what you say now, you will regret when the RTS's are gone. You don't mean what you are saying...
There just been around to long. How much repainting can they go though? Agree, they work but i'm tired of seeing just rts busesin nyc.
In the 70 there were different type of fishbowl buses and gmc but now rts that all I see 79%
So, based on your theory can you imagine how boring the streets are gonna look when they're predominantly Orion? It's just a rolling box. Sure, I wish the GM and Flx New Looks could make a comeback, but I look at it this way - any piece of transit equipment that can survive 20 years in our rough city living on deferred maintenance must be pretty solid. I don't think the Orions will last that long. Just as I don't think the R-142's will last the 40 years like the redbirds. Quality just isn't there anymore. Long live bus 1852....
Don't diss New Flyer...Grrrr.. THat's my company!! The RTS is dead ( Finally) and I won't miss them. The Novas are the absolute worst of the bunch.
I completely agree on your assumtion on the Redbirds being fine products, but why do you assume that the R142 will not last as long?
Some me some stats that prove that quality in such construction has faltered in the last half-century?
this is not subtalk HELLO
I hope this doesn't lead into an arguement in Subtalk, LOL!
I'm merely stating a fact about BUSES and using Redbirds as an example. No, I don't think the Orion's are any good, and in terms of durability, doubt any will still be in revenue service 20 years from now. Just as I don't think the R-142's will last half as long as the Redbirds. Nothing is made as it was, and once the RTS's are all gone, all that will be left are rolling boxes, completely devoid of any style at all. Sorry to burst your bubble Flyerlover, but I can safely say I've been around a few years longer than you and know that the GMC Fishbowl was the benchmark of quality to which all buses should be built.
The Chicago Transit Authority has only one series of RTSs: 491 TMC RTS-08s delivered between late 1990 and mid-1991. Ordered without air conditioning, the entire fleet of TMCs was retofitted with AC last year. A "mid-life rehab" program, also begun in 2001, is still in progress.
From what I understand, the CTA expects a total service life of at least 18 years from these stalwarts.
Speaking of the GMC Fishbowls ... a considerable number of the CTA's ran for 21 years, despite long periods of deferred maintenance.
Why are you being so ignorant? Trying reading the post that I replied to (Fishbowl2525) and realize I was talking about his comparison of Redbirds and R142's in context.
Besides, cross references have been done in Subtalk so why is that a problem?
The RTS could and should have been re-engineered and re-invented as a low-floor, per Nova's original plan. Why they abandoned it is beyond me.
I will miss the RTS's......, just not the 4600's/4700's(of other crap) of the Bklyn. Division
I will miss the RTS's......, just not the 4600's/4700's(or other crap) of the Bklyn. Division
let me tell you RTS haters something... that bus has been around over 20 years,and still would if someone other than Nova made 'em. they did in ALL the flxibles/fishbowls.[the GRUMMAN'S WERE GARBAGE ,and I can vouch for that after watching one burn up!!!!]Now that the TA has different types on the streets,it dis the RTS time!!! Most of the crap running around,the GMC/TMC RTS'S would have run circles around!!!And they all look alike!Boxes. you guys weren't saying that when you were standing on the courner one night in the winter[or any time] waiting for that bus to come ,WERE YOU? You didn't care,as long as you got a seat! It's just like that crap over at ST with the Redbirds.... you guys need to get a grip,with out those buses,the TA SYSTEM would ground to a stand still.[don't worry,baby.. I still love you!]
I haven't read the thread, but I'll assume those who call the RTS garbage don't actually drive them.
The TMC RTS was the best built, best operating bus NYCT ever purchased. Bar none.
I agree with Brooklyn. the Rts is one of the easiest buses to drive .I will admit i never drove it the two hands on the wheel unless i knew i had a beakie ( lol ) but u were sitting in a good position ( Orions and Artics your on the damn floor and have to basically sit up straight ) and had the flexibility to handle your bus in many different positions,( Ie ) one hand on the bar, your left elbow on the left dash, and u can slouch a little in the seat . My favorite time with my Rts was a long haul ass deadhead back to the depot , i would handle that bus better than a damn car ,things like leaning into my turns ,mirrors , braking and hitting the pedal ,scaring the sh*t out of others ( priceless !!! ) . Man u cant do that with any other Bus . I tried that with a Blitz one day and nearly broke my hand on the steering wheel.
Ps . I dont condone the way i operated but my passengers did love my ass ( always on schedule behind 2 to 3 buses ). Hence the my s/c ( ex )Tazz on the B8
Again: the fact that most of NYCT's buses are RTSs doesn't make RTSs garbage. It may make them boring to NYC bus fans, but it doesn't make them garbage.
David
"They make them boring to NYC bus fans, but it doesn't make them garbage".
I can agree with most of that. 9100's forever!
[We are tired of rts bus over 20 years of these buses fixing up, giving them paint jobs, I still see series 1900, 3900 on the street.]
Series 1900 are not RTS's; they are MCI D4500's.
i'm sorry series 1700 on the road, hello
in hudson pier depot
"Alot of them rts buses do need to be taken off the road and stop repainting them to look new on the outside and rotten inside"
I couldn't agree more! 3997 anyone?
Also the only people that should consider "boring" are the Brooklyn buffs. Since the Bklyn Division has a shit load of them.
I'm going to post the percentages in Division, for the number of RTS's in each Division. You Bronx buffs should have nothing to whine about!
Gun Hill !!! The Best Assortment of buses
I agree Gun Hill has the best assortment of buses.
I love what is at Gleason Depot also we have pretty good buses over here.Orion 5,R.T.S & New Flyers.
No - not Canada. Actually the vast majority of Canadian tranist agencies wanted no part of the RTS.
Wayne
The RTS would have survived if NovaBUS had not abandoned its original plan to re-invent it as a low-floor transit coach.
Amen!
I wouldn't call them garbage, but I certainly won't miss them.
Wayne
Thank you, we are tired of them. When orion buses came out it was different, but then they stop making then. Artic are a change but some street are to small for them to fit on. We want to see a change in buses that all.
We...who? Bus fans, maybe. The average passenger doesn't know or care who made the bus -- he or she is just happy when it shows up reasonably on time, reasonably uncrowded, and gets him or her to his or her destination reasonably on time in some degree of comfort.
David
I think you'll act the same when the Orions are dominant on the NYC Buses and they get scrapped.
I like the orion buses to bad they stop making then. They look a little like the grumman buses. Atleast the orion buses are different and they seem to work in Staten Island HELLO
Hmm, yes....
Yes, the Orions are different, though by your logic I can assume that you'll get tired of them once they dominate the entire NYC area. That was what I was trying to say. Of course, I may not be able to perceive what you are trying to say, so I suppose it is my loss.
And HELLO to you too!
Hello to everone. Iam not to happy with the RTS that we have at QSC. When i was in training i had to driver that bus type a couple of times. No one in my class like them. The brake make so much noise and it such a bumpy and rattly ride. And it also take so long for the A/C system to cool off the bus. The the only thing i do like is the turning they very easy to turn.{sometimes} OH by the way i also love the new pepsi blue too!!!!!......JOHN QSC
Your criticisms are justified since your are so used to the Orions, right? But remember what came first....
STATEN ISLAND is swamped with Orions... all North shore service,[from Castleton Depot]all Orions. only south shore buses run RTS's[55/56 etc].....
Well the S79 also has RTS's. Those are some of the worst buses in the NYCT system. They leak, are noisy, slow, and the stop bell often does not work. Must be poor maint at Yukon.
On the S79 usually an Orion will catch up and pass the RTS running in front of it. Past 2 times I rode the S79 they had RTS's. Next time I'm waiting for an Orion.
Apparently Yukon could care less about it's RTS's. At least they should stick them all on S55/56, there shouldn't be any on the S79.
DOESN'T THE 79 roll out from YUKON?
.....and the "Person" at NJT who specified that our RTS's has CUMMINS engines in them should be taken to a dark alley in Camden or Newark and be shot dead. Those buses are the LOUDEST vehicles I have heard. Only the SEPTA NABI's can match the loudness of the NJT RTS's.
Orion V CNG with Cummins L10G is pretty loud. The DD Series 50 aint that quiet either.
Really? I've been on the NJT RTS's they seem pretty fast and quiet to me. At least compared to Orion V CNG's.
I work for NJT and I hate the Nova, everything sucks about them, from the gas pedals getting stuck, to the poor braking system they have. crappy mirrors, driver's area is too tight. it just really really blows to be behind a nova. I would take a Flxible and day of the week over one of those Novas.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
To keep a long story short, the RTS IS the most durable bus on the road, however, in terms of being operator friendly, it is probably the worse bus on the road. Unfortunately, when GMC designed the RTS, they didn't take bus operator satisfaction, comfortability and conveinence into consideration.
BIG AL
You got that right Brother! Comfort on the RTS BLOWS! Long live the Flxible for comfort, but you can't also forget about the beloved MCI D4000, it is like a bed!
Tony M.
I know you all hate the RTS, but look at how long it lasted. Anything GMC created was meant to last, once GMC stopped making buses, that was the beginning of how the RTS became a fucked up bus. I think Nova really screwed that whole thing up. Look all those GM RTS's that are still running strong and you see these Novas that are having problems left and right. But as far as I am concerned an RTS could outlive an Orion anyday. Look at 122, already heading to Nimco and from what I hear 120 is next. I thinks when Nova took the RTS over, thats when people started to resent them. I do understand it can get boring that being the dominant bus in NY, but you have to give that bus credit, look how long it lasted. Just about 25 years from the original debut in 1977.
Jason
Well that's true, but bear in mind, NYC did not get the first order of RTS's until 1981. Had Flxible not had their mishap with the Metros, perhaps they would be the dominant bus in NYC today. Yes, it's a shame GMC got out of the bus building business, had they not I know the fishbowl would still be built today. Just out of curiosity, why didn't another manufacturer copy their design for the New Look, same as Nova did for the RTS? The MCI classic is nice, but it's no fishbowl.
Nova did not copy the RTS design. They bought the design from TMC and did their own improvements. The Fishbowl could not be built today mainly because of the ADA laws. I believe one problem, or issue with the newlooks was the windows. Standees had a hard time seeing out of them so the buses had to be redesigned with larger windows of height to acomodate everybody's vision. Also, newlooks did not have wheelchair lifts, and the ADA laws made it mandatory that all new commercial buses be lift equipped. Also, better climate control was an issue.
Getting back to the bus operator issue with the RTS. I've posted on this before, but I'll repost a shorter version. The RTS has always been a miserable bus to drive ever since the 1981's. Hot in the summer up front in the operator's compartment, cramped, having to climb over the control panel on the right, which was eliminated with the 1998's.( Nova did one thing right at least!) Defrosters which work lousy at best, heat which doesn't reach the B/O's compartment until he's done with the trip, seats which are hard as a rock, seats which don't sit straight with the steering wheel, a big clumsey steering wheel that's uncomfortable to hold, dimly lit dash cluster, wipers that constantly get stuck, or go to fast even on the slowest speed (a problem mainly with the Novas), one lousy small sun visor (another one was added with the Novas-too bad they keep falling on the B/O), swithces which are hard to reach, or awkward, manual mirrors which are a pain in the ass to adjust, then power mirrors which rarely worked or kept moving out of adjustment, no standard convex mirrors, and probably a host more just aimed to make a bus operator miserable.
I've been behind the wheel of almost every bus made and the RTS is by far the worst nightmare a bus operator has to deal with.
However, the triumph the RTS holds, and it is a big one which is what really counts as far as the transit agencies are concerned, is that it will outlast every other type of bus that has a bus operator compartment that's fit for a king.
BIG AL
A lot of Chicago B/Os share your views, Big Al. It's really a shame that the manufacturers of the RTS couldn't have been more considerate of the drivers' needs.
Having been a CTA B/O from 1968 to 1975, I can sympathize. We were "blessed" with bone-rattling, butt-thumping propane-fueled monsters (built by TwinCoach, Flxible, and Mack), that like the RTSs, caused us infinite grief and discomfort but were built to last forever. And they did! The oldest ones ran from 1950 to as late as 1972.
In contrast, the Fishbowls were Heaven on Earth.
Here's to peace & sanity,
-Dan
Also, newlooks did not have wheelchair lifts, and the ADA laws ma...
There were many later New Looks built and delivered with factory-installed wheelchair lifts. Interestingly, most of these came from GM Canada, where most transit systems wouldn't even think about wheelchair access until the mid 1990s.
I think (but I could be wrong) that a lift-equipped New Look can be recognized by the lack of the "teardrop" window on the curb side, that little oddly shaped window just behind the front door. Look at Santa Monica's New Looks, for example.
You couldn't have described the RTS's deficiencies any better. Now maybe all these RTS lovers who don't have to drive this torture chamber 8-10 hours a day will understand why those of us who do hate the bus with a passion.
For sake of best compliment, the RTS' are the Redbirds of the MTA Buses Division.
I rather think of the Fishbowls as the "redbirds" of the MTA Buses Division. RTS's are more like R-62's.
LMAO!
ADA Compliancy is not what did the Fishbowl, Time did the Fishbowl in.
There are quite a few Fishbowls with Wheelchair lifts running in North America. So that is not the reasoning for the Fishbowls Death! However to deal with such an issue, the Classic was created, which everyone and thier mother knows that the Classics is just a fishbowl with a updated body! Which also complied with the FTA's Advanced Design Bus Book. THAT'S WHAT DID THE Fishbowls in, the ADB Book not ADA Compliancy.
The only reason the RTS can outlast is because it's design was based off of "SEVERE DUTY." Other than that, The RTS is a real peice of shit, HOWEVER you can't blame TMC for trying, they did come up with the RTS-08/WFD design which I'd drive one of those anyday! I sat in one up in Canada and was just pleased as a pig in slop!
THAT'S WHERE THE TA WENT WRONG, when the 08/WFD design came out, the TA should've invested in those!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
But to me, the Classic is to the Fishbowl what the New Beetle is to the original bug. It is just NOT the same. How can the RTS be in compliance with ADB if it weighs considerably more than the Fishbowl, and hence uses more fuel and probably spews out more pollutants? Also, why was the tailpipe moved on the later NewLooks so pollutants spewed out the top of the bus? I would think this would interfere with the fresh air drawn in by the air conditioner (on the rare occasions when they worked).
I used to be a messenger in NYC and there were plenty of times when I was standing behind a bus that started to pull away from a bus stop and got a faceful of smoke. Another time a Lincoln town car livery driver was enveloped by thick black smoke coming from the under bumer pipe of a Hampton Jitney Prevost which was in front of him. Moving the pipe to the upper left corner is a big improvement and it looks cool.
Roof Pipes have been proven to be cleaner than the street level pipes.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Why exactly is that, oh transit god?
My Brother-In-Crime, Mr. Flxible METRO-D #1975 would be able to really give you in a in-depth explaination behind the Exhaust Pipe Phenom. Hopefully, he'll see that Attn Notice and reply!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Kcram3500 gave us an excellent history on how GM implemented their E.I.P.(Environmental Improvement Package) system on the new looks. When the ADB (Advanced Design Bus) hit the streets they all had "Street" discharge exhaust as standard equipement and depending on the manufacturer "Roof" discharge was sometimes an option or not available at all. As the years went on and the EPA got more strict on Diesel emissions both bus manufacturers and engine manufacturers had to "clean" up their acts so to speak. So in the late 80's and early 90's we started seeing all kinds of things happen to buses. The return of "roof" exhaust systems in full force. Flxible was one manufacturer that come off the top of my head that always offered both roof and street exhaust on their ADB's. The RTS started getting roof exhaust systems around 1987/88 when TMC started making improvements to the RTS. With the use of roof discharge exhaust systems you now have devices like Catalytic Converts and Catalytic Converter Mufflers. All of these new devices work best with vertical/roof mounted exhaust systems. These systems also allow for a more complete burn of the exhaust that comes from the engine. That's my two cents and hope everyone is doing well!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D#1975 - 40102-4D
This is GMC's description for the Environmantal Improvement System, first used in 1970 - this is directly from the final US New Look catalog, dated March of 1975:
--------------------------------------------
A big reduction in exhaust emissions and a lower interior noise level have been achieved with the new GMC Environmental Improvement system. Odor and smoke are virtually imperceptible. Unburned hydrocarbons, a key element in air pollution, are reduced on average up to 90%, carbon monoxide 35%, and oxides of nitrogen up to 25% below 1960 levels. The emission reductions are due to installation of new type fuel injectors which retain the benefits of the former "LSN" type and also reduce gaseous emissions while maintaining acceptable smoke levels. In addition, exhaust is dispersed into the atmosphere vertically through a new pipe which extends up near the left rear roof of the coach. The longer pipe is also aspirated for intake of air which results in dilution of remaining unburned elements.
An air induction system, by which air is drawn in through an opening at the right rear of the coach, has been engineered to diminish air flow noise. Through new rubber mountings, the engine cradle is better isolated from the coach body, also contributing to lower sound transmission.
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The key phrase was the one I highlighted in bold - it was the aspirated exhaust that reduced the emissions levels at the pipe (basically pumping fresh air into the exhaust system). The under-bumper pipe is too short and has little room for such a system. The air intake is the matching unit on the curbside of the rear window opposite the exhaust pipe - it replaced the three-slot intake grilles that were between the standee windows and rear marker lights.
I have never seen a roof-mount system on a Fishbowl; got any pictures?
I have, however, seen a 1970 Flx New Look (former LAX shuttle) that had this setup. I always thought those looked better with the muffler-type rear exhaust mounted to the left of the rear window; however, there is a certain coolness to the Flxes with the larger rear window...it reminds me of a Fishbowl.
-F.
These pics are from Mike Gallant's GMC pages:
The next 2 pics are good angles from the left corner:
As FYI, I believe all of the GM-Canada New Look buses sold to U.S. properties in the late 70's-early 80's had this tailpipe arrangement.
Jim D.
Not true. I was in Manhattan on Tues., and had a good look at some of the NYBS buses (#1487 and #1493). They have tailpipes which exaust out the bottom of the bus and stainless steel louvers on either side of the rear window (seems to me they're there strictly for ornamental purposes).
Very nice pics. So the EIS was basically the hole in the top left corner of the rear, just to the left of the A/C unit? Weird!
-F.
You're absolutely correct Trevor. The 08/WFD version of the RTS would have been much better suited for NYC than the model currently in use. The front mounted wheelchair would have been much easier to use and would require much less manuevering in order to position the bus properly in the bus stop. In addition the driver's compartment has much better ergonomics and would have been a godsend to us tortured RTS drivers.
Trevor, a few things here:
Please reread my post. I never said the ADA laws did the fishbowl in. In fact, I don't believe there were any ADA laws back in 1978, or whenever the newlooks finished production. I meantioned that TODAY, with the strict ADA rules the Newlooks would probably be banned from production. Yes, I was wrong about the lift part. I vaguely remember seeing a Fishbowl with a lift, in another state. I know it wasn't N.Y.
I do know the windows was one such issue. I can't speak of the classics, you are probably right about them, however I highly do not think the Fishbowl was done in by the Classic which is what you seem to be implying here, if I am interpreting your post correctly.
I know from first hand experience the RTS is a real hardship for the bus operators because of the bus operator compartment design, among other things. However, I would like to know what your reasoning is for calling the bus a real peice of shit. If the RTS is shit, what would you call the Orion V? Or the Flxible for that matter? I know you love the Flxible and so do I, but I wonder how it would have held up on the mean streets of New York if they were not given the boot, verus the RTS. I do know, based on what I've heard from bus operators who drove the newlook Flxible is that for some reason everybody hated them. The Flxible newlook's track record was somewhat embarrasing as compared to the GMC fishbowl. As everybody knows, Flxible was the lowest bidder on some orders which is why transit primarily went with them after 1973. But the truth is, they broke down alot. Could this have carried over with the Grumman Flxible 870? I wonder. But we'll never know. The bottom line is the RTS is the most successful bus to run in modern times, like the Fishbowls were in the past. Credit this with GMC. Show me the records of any city where the Flxible, or any other type of bus for that matter, has a better MDBF record than the RTS.
BIG AL
I call the Orion V, a real peice of shit too. But let me take that back, the newer RTS's are a real piece of shit, the last quality RTS buses to come out were back in 1994 when TMC was producing the bus, when Nova took over the design, the RTS went down hill on grease!
As for the Flxible and this is not because I love the bus, but the early design didn't work out, but that's with any bus of a new design, you have to work the kinks out. As we all know, in 1996 the MTA was about to give Flxible another shot, and honestly, looking back on the mid-1990s Flxible METRO, it would've survived just fine in New York. Newark, NJ & Baltimore has streets that are sometimes worse than NYC streets and the Flxible METROs are surviving just fine in both cities, not to mention DC. I don't concider NYC a major proving ground anymore because now you have cities with comparable streets as NYC.
As of MDBF, New Jersey is a prime example, the Flxible METROs in NJ see WAY more street time than the RTS, go to any garage in NJ that has RTSs and Flxibles in the facility and you'll see way more RTSs on a lift than Flxibles. Also, take a look at Bee Line, the three times I've been to a Bee Line facility, I've seen more Orions on the lifts than Flxibles.
I guess its all about preventative maintenance, but preventative maintenance won't help anything if a bus is just plain shitty and the 1995-present Nova's are just that, SHITTY. And Nova's post-purchase support doesn't help the situation either!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I never liked the RTS, something about them makes me feel clostrophobic.
The back seat area/abbreviated rear overhang, perhaps?
-F.
It slope inward at the top. For some reason NFI coaches seem low and wide ( especially the D60 approaching at high speed).
Very true. They really do look low and wide...especially compared to such contemporaries as a Gillig.
-F.
Trevor you are soooooo right, Up at the Meadowlands, we have about like 15 lifts, every weekend, you see 15 novas on those lifts. with 5 or 6 more waiting for maintenance outside the garage. Those buses just SUCK! Our Flxibles are always out on the road on weekends over the novas, hell we even started to use them more on the nova lines than anything now, I used a flxible last week on the 84 it was soooo sweet.
Tony M.
NJT
Meadowlands Garage
Tony, you lucky dog. I want YOUR job...I'm tellin' ya, we need to switch lives for a week! Driving a Flx is a sheer pleasure.
-F.
Driving a Flx is a sheer pleasure.
Man, now that I'm a bus operator in addition to an educated onlooker, I couldn't agree more! Where I drive, we have roughly 25 Flxible Metros (1989-1993) and 12 Gillig low floors (2000-2002). I must say, each individual Flxible has its own little quirks, and there are actually some significant design differences between the model years. In fact, there are even an isolated few Flxibles which I don't care for at all. By and large, though, the Flxs are easy and comfortable to drive. Our oldest ones drive like sports cars! We even have two 1993 Metro Ds! I drive one of those every chance I get.
The Gilligs, on the other hand, have dark, closed-off drivers compartments with small, uncomfortable steering wheels and only one possible position for your left foot. Plus, their steering is tight, their brakes suck, and their transmission retarders are so f&$%ing strong and jerky that you get sick after an hour. Yes, there are a few driver-friendly features of the Gilligs, but on the whole, the Flxibles are much nicer to drive.
Long live the Flxibles! As for the Gillig low floors, I don't like looking at 'em, I don't like riding 'em, and I don't like driving 'em!
I agree 100%!! I thoroughly enjoyed driving the Flxs at Univ. of Md. I hated when I had to drive one of the Blue Birds and Thomas Saf T Liners that they had. The Blue Birds and Thomas buses are since retired and replaced by newer Thomas and Gilligs. Didn't have a chance to drive any of the newer equipment since I graduated a few years before they arrived, but when I was there, some of the Flxs were only a couple of years old.
As you said, each bus definitely had its own personality and there were some I tried to steer clear from when I could pick the bus from the garage, but when I got it during the day, it was a roll of the dice.
Wow, you reminded me, I didn't even describe our "secondary fleet." The Flxs and the Gilligs are for our main fixed routes. We operate another system which uses El Dorado Escort FEs and Blue Bird Transhuttles. Both of those models are actually fairly easy to drive (aside from oversensitive brakes on the Birds) but I feel a grade lower than a real bus driver when I get assigned to one of those runs!
we have eldorados here in vegas, they seem to wobble sometimes when i ride on them.
That's because ElDorado's are lightweight "throwaway" buses. They are built on a van-conversin chassis.
Yeah...I'm not feeling those facsimile transits either. They are just school buses posing as city buses. Give me a real 12-year bus any day.
-F.
i like our new cng flyer, and artic busses here in las vegas. the artics have straps like on a train to hold onto, even reverse seats to sit on, it feels like you're riding in reverse.....
This is true..they certainly have their own personalities. No two sound alike, and no two drive alike. They're almost human in nature.
-F.
Amen to all that! I got out of a Flx Metro B and got behind the wheel of a New Flyer LF and I was just lost! Say, where do you drive?
-F.
Yes it is Fred, I am working on the 126 line tomarrow, and my favorite Flx will be waiting for me tomarrow when I walk in there. 3274. I love my job Fred.
Tony
Awesome! Say, did "Flxible870b" come from the NYCTA units?
Oh yes, and we visited our museum storage facility today; I got to see Valley Metro No. 179, a 1976 Flxible New Look and my favorite bus in our historical fleet. Hopefully we can restore it one day soon!
-F.
That's cool. Probably my favorite bus in the N.Y.C.T.A. Museum Fleet is bus #7340, a 1974 Flxible refurbished in its original MaBSToA two-tone blue paint scheme. Incidentally, I saw that Gevalia commercial (twice) for the first time last night. Certainly looks like the NYBS paint scheme, although I'm sure it's privately owned. Wonder if GMartic had anything to do with the filming?
Yeah, I love that bus; 7340 catches my eye every time and I LOVE that paint scheme. In fact, I am finishing up a model of 9125 in those colors, complete with correct silver numbers and BX12 Pelham Bay/Fordham Plaza as the destination. I took a Corgi Fishbowl and converted it into a Flxible New Look. It was a long process, but what a fun model to make!
I didn't recall that Gevalia Fishbowl to be in NYBS scheme, but I do rtemember the colors. It's been a while since I saw the commercial though...
-Fred
Yes it did, actually, the units, that were fixed up then bought by NJT where they served almost 13-14 years of service. These are my favorite buses of all time. May they rest in peace.
Tony
You mean they scrapped them?!?
YES FRED! THEY DID!
ACK!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Ever seen the last episode of M*A*S*H, where Hawkeye reacted to the lady killing what he thought was a chicken on the bus? That's EXACTLY the reaction I'm about to have right now!!!
-F.
Trevor, another example is in my backyard as well. Blacksburg Transit retired its 1989 RTS fleet this spring and kept its 1986-87 Flx Metro fleet rolling right along. The reason? Parts and support are a challenge for the RTS, probably due in part to the fact theirs are TMCs and not NOVAS (even though it's the same bus).
I would have thought with Mother Delaware being shut down (and the Metro no longer being made) that factors would have made it just the opposite, but apparently MCI/Universal Coach is doing a better job of keeping those Flxes moving right along.
I hated to see the RTS go, but the Flxes are my babies!
'
-F.
The NABIs, and even the NJT Novas are quiet compared to SEPTA's ElDorados. Now those buses are so loud, you can hear them from about 2 blocks away.
I'm back from PA, and what do I see? A topic thats going to get people crazy. Now let me put my thoughts on it:
The only Division that truly suffers from too many old RTS's is Brooklyn(not Manhattan). I'll agree that depots like FP and UP get "stuck" with old RTS's, and isn't likely to change. However there are some RTS's of Brooklyn that I like. If the Brooklyn Division was more balanced then there would be no reason to bash RTS's.
The RTS's out of Yukon are in terrible shape. Leaks all over, and a bumpy rattly ride. Even with the repowers they are slow.
I don't blame FP and UP for having old RTS's in poor condition. I blame them for deferred maintenance. JAM depot seems to have no trouble keeping the older buses alive. I see buses 4214-4217, 4346/4347, and assorted 4500 buses out there on a daily basis with seemingly no problems at all. What's the problem at these depots? Does FP and UP even bother changing the fluids?
Poor maintenance leads to poor condition. I have also seen RTS falling apart, like unclosed engine door at the rear, vibrating engines, losen windows, poor a/c system, malfunctioning lift, and perhaps every TA is facing - passenger vandalism etc...
And that applies to all bus models, Flxible, Gillig, NABI, Neoplan, New Flyer, Orion and RTS. Every bus will last long if their owner and their passenger takes care of them!
I will never in my life forget the NYC RTS with the engine sitting in the street. Saw it in New Hyde Park a few years ago. The bus # was taken off (my guess is it had already been sold to a private organization). Some jackass forgot to secure the engine to the frame so here we had an RTS with the engine sitting in the street some 50 feet away. I lost some respect for those buses that day....
That must been some site to see!!!!!! John QSC
Think about this about the RTS buses: Neither Road Champs nor corgi made a model based on a rts. Road Champs did Flexible Metro buses and corgi did MCI,GMC New Look and Old Look models. It's a shame Road Champs nor any other company never made a RTS in HO Scale-would have been nice to see. Ah, well.
I rather wish Corgi would build a Flx New Look, though I guess they figure they're so much like GM Fishbowls, it's not worth their time. Alas....
Ulmer Park does a very good job keeping the buses in good shape. But you have to remember where the buses orignally came from:
4753-4792(Amstrdan)
4854-4872(Castleton)
7511-7534(East New York)
There is no way of knowing what type of work were done to the above buses at their orignal depots before comning to Ulmer Park. I do know, however the 4700's and 4800's had scratches on all of their windows before they came to UP. UP did improve the buses, in fact, some of them did get paint jobs. The 4700's are getting scrapped(6 so far) and the 4800's are next. Hopefully something good will come to replace them.
Even though I'm not a New Yorker, I'm from Toledo, OH, I will miss those RTSs when they are all gone unless MCI or who ever can bring those products back into the bus market.
My transit authority: TARTA(Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority) has 47 1990 35' by 96" RTSs running on a Detroit Diesel Silver 92 engine. Our last bunch of RTSs came in 1994 when Flxible can't take are order at that time. They have both rear and front black bumpers, Detroit Diesel series 50 and are 35' by 96" wide.
Now, I have been to New Jersey on vacation in June. Those NOVA RTSs with the Cummins were really compare to the 1994 Flxible METRO Ds. I wounder why the Flxible D series with the Cummins are quieter than their rivals the RTSs?
Back to New York. It would be a different story had Flxible remained in business. NY was giving them the heads for another chance since the Metro is a quality and popular bus across the country. GO FLXIBLE METRO!!! Damn Flixble, this was a huge opportunity to showcase your awsome looking METRO E series on New York City streets. Aaaaahhhh, you closed down and left your parts and designs to MCI and facilities to NABI and sorts. COME ON MCI!!!! Use heads and bring Flxible or both the RTS and METRO back into the bus market. Todays market is filled with non-quality junk buses! They'll done anything to get that dollar. With MCIs technology, architech teams, knowledgers ect. the RTS and METRO would be better buses than ever and would dominate the bus market putting some manufactures for mercy.
This is an oppurtunity for them to rule both the Motor Coach market and the Transit market. Don't be afraid to spend money on countless Demos of Flxible's products and paying their creditors sense it's 8 years of Flxible absence. Re-design the interior of the RTS to be driver-passenger-and maintenance friendly.
Just think if Flxible was still here, NJ Transit would be 100% Flxible transit and suburban buses along side the MCIs and soon Neoplan articulateds. Why did MTA go for the Orions in 1993? The RTS was its prime projectory. Man, it would be great to see my favorite bus: Flxible METRO E series and G series LF in New York City Streets. The Orions would be packing for sure!
When Flxible was building its units and RTS was with TMC/NovaBus, they were the top two selling items in the late 80s to early-mid 90s. Flxible being number one countless of times I belive in the bus market. Now I'm speaking Flxible here. Let's just say if Flxible was still producing its buses, you wouldn't see New flyers and Nova LFs in Columbus, OH. I mean, Delaware is really not that far from Columbus. You wouldn't see NOVABUS RTS-WFDs and LFSs pop up in Cleveland, Miami-Dade with NABIs, MTA-Baltimore with NABIS and soon Neoplans, WMATA with Orion 5s and 6s, currently New Flyer 40LFS, and NJ Transit with RTSs. That's just to name a few.
I have heard that the Schenectady plant in NY is shut down where the secound home of the RTSs were built. With these stupid politicians in New York wanting their buses primarly made from their state of NY obviously Orion and I'm not sure, but New Flyer are the choices. It seems though that Orion will rule New York in the future unless some bus builder steps in.
Long live the Flxible Metro series and the RTS series.
Have a great day you all!
-Ronnie
I saw this bus on the Bx19 as my #2 train left Simpson Street. Is this bus still undergoing tests? How is it doing as far as breakdowns? Any info would be helpful.
Bx19#6365
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Yes - MCIs are parked there nightly and weekends
Why don't you go there and look for yourself, and not come back.
BIG AL
LOL!
Currently, no, due to construction on the adjacent park-and-ride. The park-and-ride should be open by October, as it has been paved, the lights are installed, and they've put up the traffic light on the Korean War Vets Parkway (it currently flashes yellow)
-Hank
Did BikeDC today and did a total of 53 miles during the 6 hours I was out of the house this morning. BikeDC is a great way to see the city and get some exercise, too. Also, biking is my favorite form of private transportation.
On the way down to the start, I saw 4309 on the 42 at 17th and K and again at 14th and H, I think. I wasn't paying attention to the street signs at the time.
I saw two C40LFs with flags still on them. One was on the 80 and the other was on the D6.
After the tour ended, a C40LF with a bike rack was parked at 12th and Pennsylvannia for people to use the rack. I tried it and found it to be very easy. Even without the bus driver instructing me what to do, I could have figured it out. As a gift for trying the rack, I got a black fanny pack that says Bike=n-Ride with the Metro logo on it. Some literature they had there implied that free rides would be offered once all the racks were installed. Very little publicity was made concerning the fact you can now use the racks. Also, the driver told me they are being installed at the rate of about 20 a day although he did not know why the Orions were not getting thiers, yet.
As a result of the tour, many roads were closed and others were congested. The cars in the 12th Street tunnel were honking their horns furvently as the bikes whizzed by. WMATA changed the front of the site to warn people of diversions but not the actual diversions page itself. Also, on Pennsylvannia Avenue, there is a bus stop where the J1 presumebly stops.
How cool! Let us know when you and the bike get to ride a Flx Metro. I am considering building WMATA Flx models with bike racks soon, complete with little tiny bicycles to ride up front. :) Any takers?
-F.
The J1 goes into DC now?
According to this sign, yes, otherwise, no. Be interesting if it was part of the route, the stop is at Pennsylvannia and 3rd Street, NW (about). Be quite a detour!
Last night we had another museum run, this time from the Hotel Roanoke to a new housing development grand opening. All three running coaches were used, including our restored PenTran Flx New Look, a Baby Fishbowl, and our restored Grumman 870. The latter just came back from Thermo-King, who graciously donated 90% of the $5,000 labor to fix its A/C. This thing felt like brand new...we're talking rolling meat locker here! (Amazing to hear that about a Grumman, I'm sure).
Also, I ran into a friend who was filming for his local TV comedy show; while he was to cover a black-tie affair, he decided with all the BMWs, stretch limos, etc. pulling up, that it would be a funny bit to arrive "in style"...on an old city bus. His camera guy filmed him riding off on our 3302 Fishbowl, complete with a destination sign that read "CIVIL DEFENSE". This is also the guy who announced at the ceremony that his favorite French wines are "Nuit Tran" and "Mal Chien Vingt-Vingt"...broken Francais for "Night Train" and "Mad Dog 20/20". LOL...I can't wait to get a video clip for you guys!
Oh yes, and here I was amid tuxedos and evening gowns dressed in my museum hat and a leather jacket...BOY did I feel out of place!
-Fred
Since there have been alot of changes on September 8th with bus moves & bus rosters.
Leave me alone
What the hell are you getting all mad 4?????
-AcelaExpress2005
its busfan
Oh Ok, Busfan could be a pain in the ass sometimes.
-AcelaExpress2005
[Oh Ok, Busfan could be a pain in the ass sometimes.]
I assume that by "sometimes" you mean whenever he/she/it posts!
Well Duh, what else did you think.
-AcelaExpress2005
Leave Q5Merrick alone! He doesn't have to do anything for YOU! He'll update it when he fells like it!
-
Jay
Hey guys heard of killfile?
#1979 X1
Doesn't killfile the responses, which leads you right back to the original knucklehead.
BIG AL
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Today, I had the rare chance to ride Wilmington's DART buses. During my stay in the First State, all I saw was nothing but the Gilligs out, no NABI's, and no Flxibles (They're probably gone anyway). Now I know that DART needs about 30 or so buses for the Saturday schedule, but why do they only run the Gilligs? Shouldn't they be use the NABI's, since they are newer? (With the retirement of the Flx's, the Gilligs are the oldest buses in the DART fleet).
I don't know if all of the DART operators have been trained on the NABIs yet, so that might explain why it was all Gilligs on Saturday.
There were only two bus observations I saw today. One was 2340 was still sporting a flag and 8804 was doing Saturday service on the F14.
This was the first time I have seen an 8800 on Saturday from Landover.
Usually Landover uses Orion 6s and 5s and probably a Flxible 9700 or 4000 series. Nice to see a change once in a while. Other than these two observations, it was a pretty boring drive to work.
My wife and I spent Thurs. nite, all day Friday, and Saturday in Montauk for a short get-away.
On the LIE on the way out on Thurs, we spotted a Prevost E/B. It was an XL in a metallic color with the word PREVOST in burgundy colors. No bus #, no company name, tele# or www. on it. Also there was no operator name or ICC number on the side. Perhaps it was a demo being brought out to one of the companies for a "test ride". Doubt that it was headed to Hampton Jitney since they already run XL's. Wasn't for Harran because I caught up to him around Exit 61 since they would be at exit 49. Didn't think it was to Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia since that would be 59,
Saw Suffolk County bus 9617 operating on 10C marked "Montauk". Noted that the private contractor was Hampton Jitney. Thought that they only ran OTR coaches and airporter vans. Didn't realize that they are an operator for ST. Are those buses stored at the Omni in Southampton like the rest of the HJ equipment.
On our return on Saturday we stopped off at a Harbor Festival in Sag Harbor. WLNG-FM was doing a remote broadcast. Unfortunately they took mobile unit #3 with is a Plymouth Voyager that looks like its been through the ringer. Asked where the RTS was and the assistant claimed that the Festival organizers didn't want the bus because it was too big. Learned however that the bus saw service at the Provincetown Airport as a shuttle bus prior to coming to LI
i'll take a stab and say the prevost belonged to or was heading to 'Inter-County' even though i do not know where their base is
"Hart Bus", I'm disappointed in you. I posted all that info recently to the point that if I was to post it again, people here on BT would get annoyed. First, I was shocked to hear that bus #9617 is under Hampton Jitney. That bus belongs up the Island like Babylon or Patchogue. Actually, bus #9617 is a 35 ft bus. It would not be in Montauk! Probably it was #9711-9714 (30 ft buses) because Hampton Jitney only operates FOUR buses: #9711-9714 (Bus #9712 is off and on at Hampton Jitney so really its about THREE: #9711, #9713-9714) Those buses are on the 10A, 10B and 10C. Also on the S94 during the Summer months. The S92 uses buses #9601-9608. They use to run buses #9660-9667 or #9668 but they sent those back to Patchogue. Bus #9617 has never been in that area UNLESS they were short a bus. BTW, some S92 buses DO rest overnight in Southampton at the OMNI BUT they are operated by Sunrise Coaches in Greenport which is where the bus sometimes ends its route. They mostly go to Orient Point. I hope that helps. Oh, Inter-County Coaches is in Babylon...not too far from the train station.
Mike- this is not a quiz----I don't know where the bus was heading. It couldn't have been ICMC since their yard is just off Deer Park Ave in Babylon. To get there the bus would get off at Exit 51 on the LIE and head south. I passed it e/b around exit 59 ---- too far east to be heading to ICMC. Wonder if it was Horizon Coach, a charter operator near the Bellport Outlets on Sunrise Highway or perhaps it was a loaner to Hampton Jitney while one of their buses underwent warranty repairs /
I was dropping my g/f off at Pentagon City Mall where she is a store manager there and saw the line of buses being used to ferry people between Pentagon and Crystal City. What a hassle. At least this is going on during the slowest day of the week, but I feel really bad for those that have to take it to work, or anything non tourist related. There were a ton of people on one of the shuttles heading towards the Pentagon on S. Hayes St. It was Orion V 4381 with a bike rack. Someone was either trying to put a bike on or taking it off, but we were joking that the people on the bus were probably getting edgy as it seemed like a few supervisors and the bus driver were trying to work with it. WMATAGMOAGH needs to show them a thing or two!! Also saw 2155 and 2161 along with another 21xx just hanging around. The bus drivers are putting their initials in where the route number would be as I saw a "CI" Special and "JLB" on another one.
It isn't too hard. I had started to lift my bike while I was between the bike and the rack somehow got the bike to be between me and the rack without putting it down. I also had the advantage of watching other people do it although between most people, the rack was left down and for me, it had been put up. I never had to put it back up but I did unfold it. It also is extremely easy once you figure out how to get the bar to hold the front wheel in place.
If the biker was trying to ride the shuttle from Pentagon to Crystal City, why didn't he just bike? They would have let him back on for free and would have taken less time.
Finally, when I've seen shuttles for rail disruptions around my area, the signs often say things like 0 NOT IN SERVICE or 0 FRIENDSHIP HTS. They should really do something like this: BLU PENTAGON or YEL CRYSTAL CITY and then have a P/R reading saying METRORAIL SHUTTLE-FREE.
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the bike. Pentagon and Crystal City aren't too far apart and really the blue and yellow go off the path to swing past Pentagon City.
I hope the bike racks are a success though. Once they're on the majority of the buses, a big P/R campaign should go out and its a great idea, like you mentioned yesterday that there could be free rides.
I think the buses may end up re-signing their buses to mention shuttle or have the station names because there will be some confusion, I'm sure.
Any information is appreciated.
Saw a 95XX from Hudson last night on SHUTTLE TO GRAND STREET while at San Gennaro Feast.
Yeah, Fresh Pond's 4600's/4700's are running on it. :P
Yesterday, on my 2nd half I had bus 5371, when I sat down I immedatly noticed that the seat was not the usual seat found on the artics. As I tried to adjust the seat to my profile, I found that all the control buttons (Height, and 3 lumbar supports) were on the lower left side of the seat. Also the seat belt secured from right to left, instead of left to right. the sticker on the seat belt read "Recaro". there's even a control for how much the seat will bounce when you go over rough road. All in all I found it to be very comfortable, however I wish NYCT would distribute some sort of instruction on the seat.
You know, my hometown transit: TARTA(Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority) put new drivers seats inside our 1993 Flxible METRO D series. I tell you drivers went crazy and berserk over the old seats that I'm not sure who made them. They bounce up and down along the ride, throw your hands off the steering wheel, and your foot comes off the accelator. Alot of the drivers suffer back pains and spine injuries. Some refuse to drive them. That's why I rarely see them on the weekened all day bus lineups until these brand new leather black seats made by "Recaro" came in last month. They made the difference in the world and I notice the buses were out frequently and giving more run time. Tarta place the copies of the operating instructions of the "Ergo METRO/COACH" seat behind the driver.
It features: Headrest Support, backrest recline, seat cushion rake adjustment, air lumber adjustment at the lower right side, air track release, pneumatic air suspension switch, seat cushion rake adjustment, manual fore/aft adjustment, adjustable shock at the lower left side and thigh extension(cushion length adjument).
I don't know if that's the kind of seat 5371 had, but I thought I tell you and all of you bus fans of the seat we got last month. Again, those seats make a difference in the world for drivers. To them, it's a Lazy Boy seat not to out done the USSC leather seat.
-Ronnie
The new Neoplan Artics in Westchester (68 and 10 more coming) all have the Recaro seat. The drivers rave about it. In fact many senior drivers are talking of picking routes with artics just because of the Recaro seats. Some senior men with bad backs, that are close to retirement have picked atric work for their remaining months because the Recaro driver's seat is "like therpy".
>>> The new Neoplan Artics in Westchester (68 and 10 more coming) all have the Recaro seat. <<<
Here in Los Angeles I thought they were the standard B/O seats. What are other buses using, upholstered dinning room chairs?
Tom
In a move that might make "DaRidgewoodBusBuff" wet himself with joy, FP has sent both 4675 and 4691 to Carlton Yard where they await a trip to the scrapper. Only 94 more 1987 RTS's remain at FP. I'd call that progress.
--Mark
Hey, thanks for the update, Mark!
Yeah! Thank you Q5. :)
Now that you mention those numbers, I don't recall seeing those 2 for quite a spell.
Now we're down to 246 buses(crosses fingers for HP's 9606-9618, or GH's 9229-9249).
9606-9618 sounds more likely if it does happen
get GH buses to UP instead.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Any info would be greatly appreciated
Those Orions are going Back to CS were they belong
I hope you re right about that CS is VERY short of buses right now..........I thought I saw 255 on the Q 32 It turns out it that it was 265. If 173-255 go back to CS, that most likely means that 522 and some other 500s will go to QV.
Oh, will you stop that. This is how these rumors get started! You guys should do what other are doing.....IGNORE HIM! You answer and he'll keep asking!
Again-killfile BusFan if you guys do not like what he is posting.
QV is due for Onion 7s along with MCH. Where and what buses go where remains to be seen or heard. Stay tuned!
#518 Q46
[Those Orions are going Back to CS were they belong]
Please state source for this fact you stated.
Wishful thinking
Plus it would be logical,for when MCH and QV gets its HEV Orions VII's those Orion V's are going to have to go some were and the place is the either of the 2 depots in Queens.Besides that like it was mentioned in another post that then some more of the CS 500's can head to QV.
The 100 street depot is taken fovever to be done. I'm looking forward to the new artic to come there.
But since New york have so many rts buses who know maybe they won't get the artic buses in there.
Um, yeah, whatever, Artics are going to 100th Street and that's final. Don't start a chain of ideas/lies/whatever.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
will casey stingel get orions from mother hail when they receive their hybrids lmao
As we were passing by Williamsburg Plaza(after droping off my father's Uncle near Delancy, then going over the Willie B.), I noticed the B40 pole was still there, without the bus sign. I just wonder, is that stop used for anything? Maybe they should close that terminal because I saw a few people standing there, not realizing that no bus is going to come.
---------
Heh, still is the most posts I've ever done in one day.
-Jay
They'll get the idea when no bus shows up after awhile.
As we were passing by Williamsburg Plaza(after droping off my father's Uncle near Delancy, then going over the Willie B.), I noticed the B40 pole was still there, without the bus sign. I just wonder, is that stop used for anything? Maybe they should close that terminal because I saw a few people standing there, not realizing that no bus is going to come.
---------
Heh, "this" is the most posts I've ever done in one day.
-Ja
Well, who knows if the TA decide to extend the B47 back to the "bridge", itll be useful again. Or even the B13.
THIS IS JUST WISHFUL THINKING ON MY PART. PLEASE, NO RUMORS!!!!!
Okay, since "Fishbowl 2525" wanted to talk about the GMC New Look buses, let's do so:
First, the only memories I have of the GMC New Look buses are the "Blitz" buses. I was born in 1978 and I rarely remember seeing the GMC "before" Blitz buses. That's why I start with the RTS-04 and up. If I do remember some GMC New Looks, I'll be sure to pass them along. Now, on with the memories.
I remember back in the 1980's (around 1981 about the age of 3) that I was on a Flxible New Look on Jamaica Av sandwiched in between two GMC RTS-04 buses under the J train tracks in Jamaica. I do believe that this was on the Q49 because I got off at 168th St (with my Dad, of course...I do not think I could travel at 3 years old by myself). I remember the Q49 bus very well. The Jamaica Depot did a beautiful job on it. That was the last time a Jamaica Depot route went to that part of Queens. I was hoping that the Jamaica Depot would get a split with the Q24 or Q56 back in 1988 with the Parsons/Archer Station opening but Q24 and Q56 are too close to East New York.
Well... that certainly makes sense. At the time you were born NYCTA's newest fishbowls (T6H-5309A/10A) were already 5-6 years old. The newest Flxibles were just 1 year old. These were my grade school days so I remember them well. It was a very interesting period. The good part is that the various fishbowls and Flxibles made for a nicely diversified fleet. The bad part was the fiscal crisis of the 70's meant widespread deferred maintenance. The buses looked pretty bad - and some sounded bad as well. The TA did rehabbed the buses, but it didn't happen too often. I felt for the B/O's because they had it rough. I can remember riding buses with no heat in the winter. A/C was also a long-shot. First there were still many TDH-5301 and TDH-5303 and Flxible 50/51/56/5700 series (I can never remember the model designation) that were not equipped with A/C. The A/C rarely worked on buses that were so equipped. Also - buses almost never had right-side mirrors. They had them when they were new or rehabbed but the depots did not replace them when they were damaged. Lights as well. I think they really made sure the headlights and brake lights worked and ignored the rest.
This was pretty much the norm at TA/OA depots. However there were some exceptions. I grew up in The Bronx, but I lived near to the Q44 route. I did see much of TA buses in Brooklyn and Staten Island until I was in my teen years (early 80's). I thought that FLU (now Casey Stengel) buses were always in very good condition. They didn't have much in the was of body damage, all lights always worked, they sounded good, always had right side mirrors.
Ahh - memories memories.
Wayne
I'm very sorry for this question....I tried to find it on BusTalk archives but it was not found. So, my question is.....when was the switch over from Grumman Flxible to Flxible Metro-A? Was it in 1983? I know NYCTA and NJT had the Grumman Flxible 870 ADB buses in 1980 and 1981 (respectfully) but was the Grumman Flxible from 1978-1983, then Flxible Metro-A was 1983-1986 or 1987 or 1988? I do believe I know the Metro-B is from about 1988-1990, Metro-C was 1991-1993, Metro-D is 1993-1994 and Metro-E is 1995 until they went out of business. Please respond to this because I'm doing research on the different types of buses..especially on the Grumman Flxible/Flxible Metro Corporation! Thanks for your time.
Chain of Command:
1978-Early 1983 was the Grumman Flxible "870" Series
Early 1983-Early 1987 was the Flxible METRO "A" Series
Early 1987-Early 1992 was the Flxible METRO "B" Series
Early 1992-Early 1993 was the Flxible METRO "C" Series
Early 1993-Early 1995 was the Flxible METRO "D" Series
Early 1995-Closing was the Flxible METRO "E" Series
At the time of the closing, Flxible Corp was working on a new lower floor bus called the "Customer Satisfaction" Bus, respecfully the METRO "F". It has been rumored that MCI is continuing the design on this bus and is currently testing a completed model in Mexico.
The letter designation is not the "REAL" model name, it's used by different transit properties to be able to tell the changes in the model as the years progressed.
The real model designations were........
870 Series:
Model 53102-6-1 is the 40 foot/102 wide "870" model with a 6 Cylinder Engine
Model 53102-8-1 is the 40 foot/102 wide "870" model with a 8 Cylinder Engine
Model 53096-6-1 is the 40 foot/96 wide "870" model with a 6 Cylinder Engine
Model 53096-8-1 is the 40 foot/96 wide "870" model with a 8 Cylinder Engine
Model 45102-6-1 is the 35 foot/102 wide "870" model with a 6 Cylinder Engine
Model 45102-8-1 is the 35 foot/102 wide "870" model with a 8 Cylinder Engine
Model 45096-6-1 is the 35 foot/96 wide "870" model with a 6 Cylinder Engine
Model 45096-8-1 is the 35 foot/96 wide "870" model with a 8 Cylinder Engine
In April of 1980 the models changed, wherein the first two numbers in the model no longer represented the passenger amount but changed to the length of the bus. Respectively, 40102-6-1; 35102-6-1 and so forth.
________
METRO Series:
Model 30096-30102 is the 30 foot model, either 96 or 102 wide
Model 35096-35102 is the 35 foot model, either 96 or 102 wide
Model 40096-40102 is the 400 foot model, either 96 or 102 wide
now just like the 870 series these models also had end number to represent the engine in the bus.....
adding -6T means a Detroit Diesel Series 92 (6V92) is being used
adding -6N means a Detroit Diesel Series 71 (6L71N) is being used
adding -6C means a Cummins L10 or M11E is being used
adding -4D means a Detroit Deisel Series 50 is being used
adding -6C8 menas a Cummins C8.3 is being used
adding -6M means a Cummins M11E is being used
_______
There is a few other little letter designations in the METRO model but I have yet to recieve information on them, however the information above should do you just fine.
Hope it helps!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thank you very much, Trevor! That does help a great deal!
Yeah they are testing one! Its about time, I can't wait, I hope they come out real soon.
Tony M.
Where can I find a pic of this thing? I've GOTTA see it!!! My heart is beating out of my chest and I am so happy I could cry!!!
-F.
So, NYCTA had 53102-6-1 with the "6N", correct?
NYCT has the 53102-6-1 (40102-6-1) with the 6V71.
The 6N stood for 6L71N, not 6V71.
Trevor Logan
Gotcha, thanks again!
I just got done reading these post on Grumman Flxible and Flxible METRO buses. Alright!!! Hopefully, the "F" model will come real soon.
My last post about the RTS and Flxible in NYC and sorts I got a little too emotionial. I mean I'm a diehard Flxible METRO fan and I wanted to make some points. I sent a few e-mails, letters and letters including my drawings of my opinion whats the Flxible LF should look like. I recieved no reply. That really sucks. Last week, I mailed a package containing my three page letter and picture copies off the internet of NJ Transit Flxibles including my old, up to date and new drawings of opinions what the RTS LF and Flxible LF should look like, and point out what corrections need to be made of the two buses and them entering the bus market. This time I sent them to Michael P. Melaniphy: Director, Public Sector Sales. I was giving a MCI Commuter Coach pamphlet by him, but actually I circle one up from METRO magzine's subscription form.
This is great news Flxible lovers and bus fans. At least one of the popular, high quality and best design bus I think EVER during the ADB era is making a comeback.
MCI ROCKS! GO METRO!!!
-Ronnie
Ronnie, I say they should leave the outside of the Metro unchanged, especially after seeing the low-floor "Flxible" offered in China. That thing looks like an RTS on acid...just hideous. Also, if the RTS is continued in production by anyone after NOVA throws the tooling to the curb, I hope they don't change that either. Those are the best-looking modern designs ever made and need no alteration.
-F.
I agree with you 100%! There should be no changes made outside of both buses. The only changes that I done on my drawings of the Flxible METRO low floor is the rear end A/C paneling and adding the MCI logo in the middle second panel or the far left top corner. Other than that, I just kept the design the same like the standard floor. That's what makes it unique from the other buses.
As far as the RTS low floor design, my drawings of it has the same body style as the T80-206 unit. I want it to be longer like 41 feet long so it can have additional seating because the majority of LFs have a total of 37-40. I did a make over on the front section to give it a different look from the other RTS units and other buses. It's a cross between NovaBus's LFS, MCI G4100 series and the RTS. The curve frame stays the same, but I gave it some futuristic headlights sort of like MCI's G4100 coach has. I have added two rear windows instead of the normal one, a sharp spike exhaust pipe like MTA Baltimore's METRO D and E series roof A/C, redesign of the radiator grill, and I did one unit that has a hybrid electric tank.
I'm not sure when Trevor or whoever will scan my drawings for you all to see on Transitalk at the arts forum. Since I did some tune up on these babies I will send them to Trevor to post them up there. Maybe he might go around and show you guys. I'm proud that these drawings turned up nice. Hopefully, you guys out there have some new and old art work to show up on Transitalk.
Have a great day!
-Ronnie
Ronnie, how cool; I look forward to seeing it. I do artwork as well; in fact, my new book, "Women Are Like Buses", will hopefully be finished soon. Lotsa Flxes, RTSes, MCIs, and others are featured!
-F.
If this is true that would be great news. When Flxible hears this news, he might not contain himself. WMATA are you listening?
You read me right; I cannot contain myself. I hope all the TAs running Flxes through their "swan songs" at the moment will consider one...DC, Chicago, Cleveland RTA, Toledo, Blacksburg....GET YOUR EARS ON, Y'ALL...I MAY BE CRAZY, BUT I AIN'T DUMB...LOL!!!
-F.
LOL!! You forgot Flxible City-Baltimore. You might hear Neoplan going UH OH! if Baltimore get wind of this.
OOPS...how can I forget Baltimore? I LOVE their Flxes...in fact, MTA is one of my favorite schemes to do for customk model bus orders. It just looks so GOOD on a Flx Metro...
-F.
HOT DOG....a brand new low floor Flx being tested in the land of Corona? That's GREAT news!!! Please, God...say it is so!!! Guess what I'LL be praying for before I go to sleep tonight? :)
-F.
Flx, remember it is only a rumor. We don't have any facts on this so called low floor Flxible if it really exists from MCI. And we all know the way rumors go on this board.
BIG AL
Poop. Well, let's cross our fingers anyway.
-F.
Trevor, once again, very thorough info. I did not realize the 5-digit designation had not changed until 1980; I thought it changed with the introduction of the 870. Thanks!
-Fred
Trevor, can you tell us what the difference is between a Flxible Metro "A" and a Flxible Metro "D". I feel like I'm watching the Star Trek movies and have to judge which Enterprise is best from the Enterprise-A to the Enterprise-E.
BIG AL
P.S. Enterprise-A is the best of all of them!!!
Ok here is is.........Now remember the letter thing is only used by TA to tell the changes in the model and is NOT the "REAL" model name.
870 Series:
First of the design; incorporating frameless passenger windows (except in sliding window situations), drivers window utilzed a "RTS" style openings, grilless front, rear side engine grill is a basic horizontal grill pattern, 78 degree back slope. Interior characteristics are the "Luminator" interior lights, soild type rubber standee grips and interior rear wall is sloped matching the exterior.
METRO A Series:
Still incorporating frameless passenger windows (except in sliding window situations) & drivers window utilzed a "RTS" style openings. Four part grill introduced on the front, rear side engine grill is changed to a Cris-Crossed pattern. 78 degree back slope remains. Interior characteristics are the "Luminator" interior lights are lost for what we now know as the Transmatic Light System, soild type rubber standee grips are lost for stainless steel standee grips. Interior rear wall is sloped matching the exterior.
METRO B Series:
Still incorporating frameless passenger windows (except in sliding window situations). Drivers window is changed to a "T" style with a larger opening for the driver. 78 degree back slope remains. Interior characteristics are basically the same as the "A", EXCEPT that towards the design change the "C", the rear wall became a straight 90 degree wall.
METRO C Series:
Still incorporating frameless passenger windows (except in sliding window situations) & "B" Style Drivers. 78 degree back slope remains. Interior characteristics are basically the same as the Later version "B" with the straight 90 degree wall. Introduction of the use of Roof Mount HVAC Units comes with this model
METRO D Series:
Introduction of "RTS" type framed windows. Driver's window retains the "T" style however the top portion which was a window is now lost and the Circuit Breaker panel is put in its place, from the exterior however it looks like nothing has changed. 78 degree back slope is lost for a slight reverse 95 degree angle, however later in the design it became a even 90 Degrees. Interior characteristics are basically the same as the "C". HVAC units are on the rooves of this series.
METRO E Series:
Passenger and Driver's Window is that of the "D". 90 Degree exterior back. Interior characteristics are basically the same as the "D", However with the loss of the choice of Roof Mount HVACs, the rear wall gained a new HVAC vent style, taking up a good portion of the rear wall.
That's a quick summary......
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Also the later 1992 version "C" saw the larger designed drivers area in which the platform was lost and the driver became on level with the passengers!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
A couple notes:
* The 870 was the first transit bus to use the front turn signals as "parking lights" like a car. The reason was, the original 870 was designed without eoofline corner marker lights (they only had the three-light sets on the front and rear roof which are federal requirements), and the wraparound turn signals were to serve as the front side marker light; the wraparound taillight was to be the rear side marker light. Most operators asked for the top-side marker lights, and many states required them anywat, so in 1979, they were made standard.
* Unlike the RTS, the upper fixed portion of the 870-Metro-A driver window was hinged at the top as an emergency exit.
* The original Metro A was introduced with RTS-shape wheel arches instead of the round shape used on the 870 (which Flxible then returned to)
* The Metro C introduced the smaller "teardrop" marker lights (similar to the ICC roof lights of the last GMC New Looks). 870s and Metro As and Bs used the larger rectangular marker lights.
Oh, those square wheel arches looked like crap on those. Williamsburg had one, and I thought it looked TACKY. Round flares are the only way to go on a Flx Metro!
-F.
I'll step in and give a few things that's different between the A and E series.
-The A has a slope back end and the E has a flat back.
-Metro E driver station has grown a bit for driver comfort and for room than the Metro A station which is small somewhat.
-The A series had the wrap around tail lights, but the E series has options of tail lights to chose from and configuration.
-The A series has the normal window frame set as the Metro B, but the E series has a new square shape window frame set. I'll you the new frame set on those Flxible Ds and Es makes the bus more attractive.
-The reason why I think the D and E series has a flat back is to correct the problems of of the A/C unit. Trevor or someone will tell us the details.
-Metro A has the exhaust pipe beneath itself, but the E has many styles of tail pipes configured in three or four places.
Well, that is all I have to tell. Anyone welcome to step in?
-Ronnie
Excellent Info Lil'Bro!
Here is a little extra.
Engine codes:
6TL= Detroit Diesel 6L-71TA DDEC
Which are the Baltimore 92xx series. This is a turbochared Straight Six.
Otherwise you have got all the goods down packed!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D#1975 - 40102-4D
Great Subject you picked, those are the best buses ever built. Don't forget about the 1980 Flxible 870's and talk about how it led into the metro series buses.
Tony M.
Here is how I understand it. Surprisingly enough, there are also letter designations early on:
Grumman 870 "A": (1978-79)
Grumman 870 "B": (1980-82)
Grumman Metro: (1982)
Flxible Metro "A": (1983-86)
Flxible Metro "B": (1987-91)
Flxible Metro "C": (1992-93)
Flxible Metro "D": (1993-94)
Flxible Metro "E": (1994-96)*
*Only 4 Flxible Metros were built in 1996. Numbered 1900-1903, these were part of an aborted order from NYCTA and now serve as test buses for new engines at Detroit Diesel.) Hope this helps!
-Fred
Hopwfully as well is that if indeed that a Metro "F" is being tested in Mexico and made by MCI,that the NYCTA which already ahas contact with said company would consider it next low floor fleet to be Metro's F's as oppose to Orions VII's and New Flyers C40LF's.
Amen to that...a Metro F would look MUCH better than either coach, IMO. Hopefully they, like the current RTS, will become a staple of NYC one day if all goes well.
-F.
Hi ,,all
I need New Bus Rosters for NYCT,,,etc
I can not lcate Trevors pages,,or the UTC Pages
I have New Destination Signs and Readings===if anyone needs my help
STeve
914 329 7489
Do NYC Bus run their artics all night on their 24 hr lines? SEPTA runs their Neoplan artics on the 6, 33, 60 and some trips on the 22, 55, and the Orange Nite-Owl bus routes.
The three Manhattan artic lines (23d, 79th, and 86th Streets Xtown routes) all run 24 hours, albeit once every 40 minutes during owl periods, which probably means one bus only on each route. As far as I know the artics run around the clock.
In the Bronx, where there are more artic routes, my guess is the same applies. Check the MTA website to see which of the Bronx routes run 24 hours. NYC Transit normally does not alter vehicle assignments during overnight periods.
They should. I don't ride the bus at 3 AM but I can't imagine there being a need for an articulated bus. I am sure that they could schedule it so that the runs that need 40 foot buses can get them.
Actually, here in Philly, the Nite-Owl shuttles get quite crowded at 3 AM. Also the 33 can get quite busy at 3AM, with buses running every 30 minutes, and all of the bars, clubs, speakeasies, and the usual late-night denizens of the city out and about. So the need for artics at 3 am can be justified. Also Allegheney runs the 6, 33, and 60, and this garage is artic-only. Midvale has a mix of artics and regular 40 footers, so artics are run usually by drivers who choose to drive them at that particular time.
The BX12 runs every 10 minutes during the overnight. Why should the TA bother doing an equipment change for the overnight? its way too much trouble for what it's worth.
I checked the schedule on the MTA web site. The Bx12 runs a bus every 40 minutes overnight. Sorry, I had to check. A 10 minute headway sounds a bit excessive!
I got my info from the printed pamphlet.
Not if they pull in and pull out on those runs. It isn't too hard, you just have to deadhead one extra bus to and from the depot.
Again, way too much trouble. Imaging every artic on the BX 22 heading all the way to gunhill. and removing standards before the AM rush. Too risky and troublesome.
Doesn't the Bx22 only use one(or two) bus(es) at night?
One , Castle Hill to Pelham Parkway ,Bx 12 to continue trip
The one leaving at 12:00 from Castle Hill does go to Fordham
And one late bus leaves Fordham as well at 12:37
Plus, some routes could see runs that start during the owl period (say, around midnight) and operate into the AM peak period. I seem to recall a few years ago some owl buses on SEPTA's 15 route which fell into that category.
Yes on Manhattan and the Bronx that have artic buses assigned the TA does assign artic buses during the overnight period not because of the people using the bus.
The reason is the AM rush hour. MABSTOA drivers who drive hawk runs do not have swings that pull in. Instead the drivers lay over at the terminal and fall back a trip. This is considered their swing hence they have the same bus all night because they need the artic for the AM rush hour.
I suspect that once the M 15 which is a TA route gets artics assigned you will see standard buses assigned to hawk runs since TA hawk runs pull in for their swings
Thank You
The BX36 operates 24 hours. It operates on 50 min. intervals late nights. I've ridden it many times late at night and the buses were usually not too crowded. If an artic happened to be a hawk on the BX36 - I don't think it's worth the trouble of pulling in for a 40 footer.
Wayne
I don't know if this is the CARD radio system that ctrabs mentioned on his website, but i noticed that older frontier buses, like the Neos and the Cutaways, have the destination sign controls like the Dorados and the other newer buses. Are these just easier to use, and are any other depots doing this?
All SEPTA buses will be retrofit with these new CARD control panels. Some Neos at Red Arrow have recieved these panels within the past week or so.
I am well aware that ENY loaned out buses to JG to help with JG operating the B8 bus. Will these buses be moved to other depots once the Orion VII arrives to JG? Just curious.
B68-#8685-NOVABUS
Who ever said it was a loan? It was a reassignment. The buses might be reassigned again (yes, it's redundant), or they might not.
David
These buses are not loaners. They have been officially reassigned by DOB. Wheather or not they are moved again once (or if) the new buses arrive remains to be seen.
--Mark
Who know JG may keep those buses from ENY, but where would they put them?? HMMMMM........
-AcelaExpress2005
In all liklihood, DOB will wind up moving all of the RTS out of JG to other Brooklyn Division depots. Which depot(s) is anybody's guess. However, it is WAY too early to begin speculating as to where these buses will go. As of now, the new Orion VII's are no where near appearing at a bus stop near you.
Mark
Thats true, to tell you the truth I really don't like the new Orion 7 buses at all, they look smaller, we need some RTS Nova Buses.
-AcelaExpress2005
Guess what happened on my way home tonight? I got a ride on the Metro-B Suburban prototype 3000. I intially didn`t notice because it looked like most of the regular South Jersey buses, except it had unusually clear windows. (Most of Washington Twp's Flxibles have badly scratched windows. It's almost impossible to see out of them.) Another feature is the Bike rack on the bus. (All Southern Division Flxibles and RTS's have bike racks on them.) When I sat down and looked at the front of the bus, I noticed the number - 3000. The other weird thing I noticed is that has the "Stop Request" signs common in the earlier Flxible buses. The interior was very clean, but that will change soon.
Now my question is this: Is 3000 now a permanent resident here in South Jersey (The bike rack is a very good clue), or will it be bouncing back and forth between North and South? What garage will be in down here, Newton Ave or Washington Twp?
Finally I heard something about this bus, IT IS ALIVE ALIVE!!!!!!
It should go into a museum and not be scrapped.
Tony M.
How awesome! Give me the details on this bus (i.e. engine type, how it rides, age, etc.); sounds like a great coach!
-F.
Well, a possible Fairfax Connector strike would have change my plans for this excursion, but no strike, and onwards.
I started off with 2029 (Orion 6-F14), to New Carrolton. At New Carrolton I spotted something interesting a 35' Thomas SLF, being run for "The Bus". I didn't think they had one of these. It ain't new, well sort of not new. It probably came with the 30 footers, earlier this year. I got on the subway enroute to West Falls Church. At West Falls Church, I spotted another interesting observation, 2152 has a bike rack. As I would find out practically all of Arlington's 2100s have bike racks, as well as 9613. I took Fairfax Connector 7838
to Reston Town Center. I made two observations here. One was some of the buses had "Go Redskins", and "Win" and 7914 was missing its front bus number. That Fairfax Connector route number was 505. I next caught RIBS route 2, a Orion V 30' to Herndon Park and Ride. Nothing unusual here, saw a 5A run by 9826 to Dullus Airport. It also looks like they are going to expand the bus depot. Stayed there a little bit and took some pics. By the way that bus was 7919, a 2002 model. I next caught 7833 (TMC RTS on route 984, which will be discontinued later this month) to the Tyson's Corner Transit Center.
Here is when I realized that Arlington's 2100s have bike racks. I first spotted 2150 with one, then 1992 vintage 9613 with one and every Arlington Orion 2100 had one. I wonder if the other garages that have their Flxibles with bike racks have put bike racks on their Orions. I caught 7785 (40' Orion V on route 425) back to West Falls Church. Also when I first got to West Falls Church, I spotted 4317, with its flag still attached. I took the subway back to New Carrolton, as I passed by the "Complex" ( My new name for the two Landover storage lot/bodyshop), I spotted the same buses that were there with a couple of MANNs included. It also looks like fire victim 9060 is there, I thought this bus was gone by now, although this might be another RTS. Also the other mishap victims, waiting for repair were in the "waiting room" were moved. Most are fire victims, either the rear or in 5215's case, in the front. 9601 is one of those fire victims waiting for repair and not sure if it will be and also included spare parts victim 8849. At New Carrollton took 5177 (30' Flxible B-F12) to Landover to see the Redskin Shuttle buses.
The shuttle buses were using all kinds of buses from Arlington (2100s), Bladensburg (8800s, NABIs, CNGs, MANNs), Landover (Orion 6s, and a couple of 8700s), Montgomery (NABIs) and Southeast (8700s). I decided to walk home, which is pretty far, along the route the Redskin shuttle buses run and take a couple of pics. This next one goes under "I'M SHOCKED FILE". I spotted, and had to take a double take when I saw a CNG on the F12, a Landover route. Somebody goofed. Instead of putting one of these on this route they could have (a)use one of the 10 buses left in Landover during rush hour to use or (b) exchange one of Landover's buses used in the Redskin shuttle instead of that bus. I am not sure the bus number, but will find out since I took a picture of this oddity. It was a pretty interesting day, especially hearing the news brought to us by Trevor.
Little by little, the Arlington buses are getting fitted with the bike racks. Saw 4381 yesterday with one and Metro B 9276 along with several 9400's. I think 8872 is now a resident in Arlington as I saw it backed against the fence along Wilson Blvd. That one was in Arlington, then I think either moved to Four Mile Run or Royal.
I think I'm going to head out to Reston Town Center on Saturday and use the 505. There is some kind of Oktoberfest going on there, so figured make good use of the day and maybe get hammered before the first time my parents meet my g/f!! LOL Maybe I should have the drink AFTER they meet.
I propose that maybe we could get a bus fan trip together, but not sure how many we could ride in one day do to the length of certain routes or availability of people, or if it would get boring.
I'm going to try out the B11, J4 and 5B next week and hope to try out the C18 some point in the future. I saw 4397 on the B11 the other day, so not sure if all the runs use the SmartMover type buses or if that was just a random bus put on the line.
That would be great to get a bus fan trip together. Also, Wednesday, I be riding the B30 to BWI and go to downtown Baltimore. I might take some buses or just take Baltimore bus pics.
I'd be happy to join you guys for a fan trip.
Wayne
Great!! Maybe we can choose some Saturday when the majority of the routes are running.
That might be a problem for me as I work in retail and Saturday is our busy day. Hopefully we could do it in October, when the Neoplans come into service (if they arrive on time). I can request a vacation, in which I could take that week off including Saturday.
That's no problem at all. I know how retail is from working it for a few years and my g/f being a store manager at Pentagon City Mall. The schedule is definitely flexible. That would be cool to see if we could ride one of the Neoplans.
I can request a weekend off with about two week's notice. The only problem might be getting coverage. I have an assitant who can work all day Saturday I would need someone else from another store to work Sunday. Then again I could only ask for Saturday off.
I am planning my vacation October 27 thru November 3rd, so if yall want to do it Saturday, November 3rd, that's fine with me.
That's great. The 3rd works for me.
Cool.
OK - I work the basic M-F, 9-5 hours. Even if we need to take a weekday... I can as long as I have at least one week notice. But I think it would be fun.
Wayne
No problem with that. I would need a couple of weeks lead time before I could do a Saturday, but a weekday any Monday or Wednesday is no problem.
Arlington has 9276?
Cool, we'll have to see who and how many people would want to do it.
I'm going to head up to Baltimore on Sunday for the O's game and take the B30 and the Light Rail. Have fun up there on Wednesday!!
Yeah, Arlington has 9276 for about a year or so, I believe. I don't see it on the road too often though. It was in one of the maintenance bays facing N. Randolph Street this afternoon. I've seen it in the past on the 22 as well as the Centreville lines.
Fairfax Connector was going on strike? OMG! Fairfax Connector is one of the best complanys in the DC area.
BTW you got a pic of that Thomas SLF235 at the bus? If you do E-Mail it to me I would love to see it!
Fortunately, the strike was averted when a 3 year contract was done Sunday.
I didn't get a pic of this bus, but I will be heading towards New Carrolton Station Wednesday, and not only hope to take a pic of it, but if it is going to Greenbelt, I want to ride it.
What news from Trevor? Did I miss something?
It's just a rumor, but MCI maybe working on a low floor transit bus model, that Flxible was working on before they went bankrupt. It is just a rumor and to this point noone has physically seen it.
Trevor, please e-mail me at flxible176@yahoo.com ASAP. Thanks!
-Fred
Previously, I mentioned that there is a problem with the CNG bus on order regarding placement of the tanks. It seems like some of them will be mounted in the chassis and the rest will be mounted in the coach itself. Placing them on the roof does not seem to be an option. I think it's a liability issue. These buses are top heavy in general, very vulnerable to crosswinds. Placing the tanks on the roof may make the bus unstable and if a rollover should occur, the manufacturer would not want to be liable for any damages. A hybrid drive system is being considered for this bus instead of the five speed auto.
For the B/O's that drive CNG buses in revenue service, do you have any thoughts on the CNG tank placement? For those that don't know, our buses resemble the ST SCAT bus.
CNG's sway alot more than regular buses. All I've been on are CNG buses with the CNG tanks on top. All Orion V CNG's have it this way. Also the tank is on the top of the Orion 2 CNG as well.
CNG is a mistake, Brookhaven should not go through with it.
Once you get it, kiss reliability out the window.
Your point is well taken since I've read posts about the problems CNG Orions seem to be having. I'll mention your comments to the big boss. Thanks.
If you've put enough money in the budget to take care of the CNG's, they will run. But they need alot of TLC and diesel is just plain simpler to operate with, especially for an operation like Brookhaven.
If you compare two depots that operate with CNG, like Queens Surface, and LI Bus Mitchell Field. For some reason, QSC's buses don't break down much. They have enough money to cover the extra costs associated with CNG's.
LI Bus OTOH, is getting rather poor maintainance of these CNG buses so they break down more. And LI Bus, as we all know, is cash strapped.
I've compared QSC's Orion V CNG's with LI Buses in Flushing many times.
Many new LI Buses use the same Series 50G engine QSC uses. However QSC's are much smoother and faster.
There are some people (you know who you are) that think LI Bus is just a supurb operation. But out in the burbs, transit funding sucks (I'm sure Suffolk is just like Nassau with it's subsidies) and the extra cost of the CNG buses, maint, and fueling station often force them to make "unseen" cutbacks, most likely in the maintainance department.
End result is more breakdowns, and other failures. If LI Bus purchased diesel buses, we'd have more buses, more money and probably have a bus that runs in my neighborhood more frequently than once an hour. But I have seen CNG sucesses like QSC.
I thought when the Series 50G buses arrived our problems were over, seeing how DOT and NYCT have had relatively few problems with them.
But when the S50G buses broke down alot at LI Bus, just like the older ones, I knew it must be poor maintainance.
So Bottom line CNG's need a lot more TLC, so unless you have excellent funding, stick with diesel!
CNG tanks are on the roof, because if, GOD forbit, if the explode that explosion will go up.
Regarding top heavyness, that why they have a standee limit. If the operator drivers responsibly & doesn't overfill his/her bus he/she shouldn't ever have a problem.
Brookhaven may have a height problem. One of the first things done here in Queens was to travel all the routes with a nycDOT tree trimming crew.
Your point is taken regarding CNG tank replacement. But it creeps me out that the manufacturer is thinking of putting some of the tanks inside the coach. I was thinking that maybe we should go with LPG or a hybrid setup. The CNG bus must be able to go at least 200 miles before refilling the tanks so that makes things worse. With the diesel bus, I can drive over 100 miles and barely move the needle.
I think that some NJT MCI's are CNG and have tanks on the bottom. Definately NOT a comforting thought.
Some food for thought
CNG is LESS flamable then desiel.
CNG is safer in the normal spot where fuel tanks belong rather then on the roof.
If a deseil or gasoline tank is hit directly it is more likely to explode then CNG (example GM or was it ford pickup with side mounted fuel tanks that had a propensity to explode on contact.
Puting the CNG tanks where they belong would make the buses more stable
CNG is more likley to catch fire then explode on impact and in adddion CNG only catches fire at a very high concentration
Those are excellent points regarding tank placement. However, I can't help but think about that accident a few years ago at Belmont Park. A GBL CNG RTS smashed into an overpass while trying to make it to the racetrack and exploded into a fireball.
Green Bus Lines NEVER HAD CNG buses.
Okay, wait a second! I'm late on this one but what kind of buses is Brookhaven ordering? Is this with Suffolk Transit? Will they have Suffolk Transit logos on them? You said CNG but are they Orions or New FLyers? I assume that they will be 30 or 35 Ft long, right?
In the lower right hand corner of the window, there is a "TA Control Number." Previous messages told me the number was the run number.
Does the run number change after each run? I've seen buses come into the last stop and not seen the B/O change the number for the next trip.
Michael
Washington, DC
Run and trip are not interchangible terms. A trip is just that: a single trip, from one end to the other, of a given route. A run is a series of trips. When a driver talks about his/her run, it usually refers to a whole day's worth of work. A run can have many trips of one route or even have several trips apiece of a few different routes. Runs can include time for layovers, breaks, deadheads, etc.
For instance, the other day, I drove run 115, but never had to change the run number once because every trip I did was properly represented within run 115. I can't imagine there are many TAs where a switch to the run number box is necessary before starting each trip. Road supervisors should be able to translate the run number to make sure each vehicle is in its proper position.
OK. Thanks for the info. Here, in Washington, we call them block numbers. It seems that in NY each route is handled by a exclusive depot. In Washington, a route can be handled by multiple depots, e.g. the Wisconsin Avenue line (Routes 32, 34, 35) are handled by Southeatern and Western because they are near the end points (Southern Avenue Metro Station and Friendship Heights, respectively.)
The block number consists of the division (one character code, followed by primary route then the buses sequence in the route. For example, BX24 means Bladensburg Division, Route X2, 24th bus on the route. (BX02 would be the second bus on the route.)
Michael
Washington, DC
That could never be done in NYC due to the fact that you have 3 or 4 different unions representing the bus operators.
I don't know what unions have to do with TA control numbers. Metro (Wash DC) has two unions (Teamsters and UTU) and it has no effect on block numbers.
Michael
Washington, DC
I think he was referring to different depots handling a route. However, there are a few NYCT routes that are assigned to two depots.
Wayne
Even if routes are assigned to multiple depots, what effect does it have on run numbers? The fact that different unions are involved, what effect does that have on run numbers?
I think the answer to the above questions is "none."
Michael
Washington, DC
Even if routes are assigned to multiple depots, what effect does it have on run numbers?
That would be called a "split route" and designated as "101" for one depot, and "003" for another.
The fact that different unions are involved, what effect does that have on run numbers?
None.
Before one can appreciate and understand what the RUN BOX number indicates, one must first understand what a RUN is. A RUN is a piece of work with a predesignated schedule of trips. Regardless of Bus Operator, that RUN never changes.
So what changes?
The bus may change: Defect, Breakdown, Bus Swap, Accident, etc.
The Bus Operator may change: Sick off run, Called to Random FFD, Accident, Releived.
In any case, the RUN never changes, though it may be operated by a different operator (for various reasons indicated above) or run by a different bus (as indicated above).
Each route, regardless of depot or borough or division begins RUN NUMBERING at 001. (RUN 1, RUN 01 and RUN 001 are the same).
So for example, RUN 1 on the Q1 would display "001". If RUN 001 on the Q1 pulls-out bus #4940 and is called to a random, the RUN NUMBER remains the same, regardless of the replacement operator.
Or, if bus #4940, 1/1, is involved in an incident or breakdown, an alternate bus will be substituted. The RUN NUMBER will still be RUN 001, regardless of who is operating or what bus number is in service.
Each RUN has different days off, different pay scales, and different trips along one or more routes.
RUNS are picked in seniority order, usually by BIGGEST PAY, WEEKENDS OFF and LEAST VEHICLE TIME, in that order.
Each ROUTE (Q-1) has a predetermined amount of available RUNS.
RUN NUMBERS are duplicated because they all begin at 001. SO you will have RUN 001 on the Q1 and RUN 001 on the Q2.
The SLD will differientate between them all. Relatively simply.
HTH
Brooklyn 67 wrote "The Bus Operator may change: Sick off run, Called to Random FFD, Accident, Releived."
What is Random FFD?
Michael
Washington, DC
A random drug/alcohol test whereby an operator is sent to NYCTA medical for a "Fit For Duty" examination (submitting a urine sample under controlled observation).
An operator is subject to a random at any time while on duty, either upon reporting, before/during/after a meal period, or at the end of a tour of duty.
Certain instances will subject an employee to a FFD test while in passenger service:
a) accident causing bodily harm, or
b) reasonable suspicion as determined by management (as long as it conforms to the collectivve bargaining agreement).
In any case, the run remains the same, although the bus or operator may change for various reasons.
I thought WMATA had ATU for a union rather than UTU.
You're right. It's amalgamated instead of united.
SEPTA is now going to a similar format with their block numbers within the past year or so, thanks to the new CARD system discussed in other threads.
On the newer buses equipped with electronic block signs (starting with the Neo artics), instead of a 2 or 3 digit block display (in some cases, just a single digit, such as on the 9 bus from Allegheny), all electronic signs now display 4 digit block numbers. The first digit represents the depot the bus is assigned out of:
1 - Comly
2 - Frankford
3 - Midvale
4 - Red Arrow/Victory
5 - Allegheny
6 - Frontier
7 - Southern
8 - Elmwood (all LRVs, no electronic block signs, but still the manual 2 digit block signs)
9 - Callowhill
The last 3 digits represent the route the bus is assigned to. For an example, let's use the Red Arrow routes:
100 (P&W): 400x
101/102 (Media/Sharon Hill): 410x
103: 420x
104: 421x (starts with 4215, last block of day is 4299)
105: 430x
106: 433x
107: 434x
108: 435x
109: 440x
110: 443x
111: 445x
112: 447x
113: 450x
114: 455x
115: 456x
116: 458x
117/119: 460x
118: 463x
120: 465x
122: 467x
123: 468x (generally start with 4685)
124/125: 470x
305: 480x
There are no block displays on the P&W cars; the Media/Sharon Hill cars have three digit manual block displays, similar to the Neoplan and NABI buses.
I'm totally confused. What would the block number be for the route 42 buses? Not knowing much about SEPTA, for the sake of argument, assume the 42s operate out of callowhill. The first digit of the block number would be 9. What would the next three digits be?
Michael
Washington, DC
Coming to Philly Oct 4/5 to dance tango
The 21/42 buses (which are interlined as they share a common terminal at Penn's Landing) have blocks between 9100 and 9149 (though on the older buses - the Neo 40-ft buses and NABIs, they'd be displayed as 100-149).
I saw the story with Hillary Clinton running for President....MAYBE! Anyway, she was outside walking and I noticed a bunch of MCI express buses just sitting there on the side? Where was that at? I know it's in Manhattan but where? I thought it was MSG but the X26 does not do MCIs! ANybody have any ideas?
I have an excellent photo of the first MCI on Queens Village property used for training purposes. The destination sign reads "TRAINING BUS" as the bus sits on the QV pull-in rail.
Photo is 4x6, glossy and taken from front/left showing entire front and left side.
This photo is not online (I don't have a scanner).
First received email with a snail mail address gets it.
Actually first (2).... I have 2 similar photographs.
Snail Mail Address =
My Name
1234 My Street
My Town, My State
My Zip
At the beginning and end of an operator's shift, does the B/O have to be relieved at the designated relief point, or can they be relieved at either or the terminals as well (or do they have to bring the bus back to the depot)? Does this also happen for lunch breaks? Also I know that the B/O has to report back to the depot at the beginning and end of thier shifts, but do they have to do that for lunch aslso, or do they eat lunch in the area where they were relieved, and then relieve the first bus when their break ends?
B63Mike
NYCT has designated relief points. Sometimes the relief point is at one of the terminals, sometimes it's midline somewhere...usually it's at the nearest location to the depot or to a bus or train route that will get the Operator to/from the depot. On some routes (including all expresses), there are no designated relief points, and all Operators are to pull their buses into the depot to which the route is assigned. If an Operator is relieved on the road and relieves another Operator on the road, he or she does not have to come back to the depot before/during/after the meal period. As to who gets relieved by a given Operator, it's part of the schedule...it's not the "first bus" to come by.
David
I asked this question about six months ago and generated a lot of replies. I don't know if all relief points were mentioned, but they were thorough. You might find it in the archives.
Michael
Washington, DC
>>> does the B/O have to be relieved at the designated relief point, or can they be relieved at either or the terminals as well <<<
When you give it some thought, you can see your answer. A particular B/O has to be assigned to relieve a current B/O. Obviously both must know, by being told by management, where the relief will take place (unless it is emergency relief due to incapacity of the current B/O to continue), which could be at a terminal or anywhere else along the line. In our small city bus line, the relief B/O drives a company car to the relief point, which is a bus stop, and turns the car over to the B/O who is being relieved. If the bus arrives before the relief B/O it waits for hin/her at the stop. On certain LAMTA lines, relief takes place at a regular bus stop in the middle of the route which is within a block of a depot.
Tom
Where is your city and what is LMATA?
LAMTA-Los Angeles.
Peace,
ANDEE
>>> Where is your city and what is LMATA? <<<
I live in Norwalk, California. The local bus company has five routes, and never has more than 15 buses running at one time. I have seen the same B/O on different routes in the morning and afternoon. I suspect that after she is relieved for lunch, she then relieves a B/O on the second route. None of the routes have owl service, and two routes run less than 12 hours. (LAMTA should be LACMTA = Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transit Authority)
Tom
I noticed No 412 was on the Bx31 today witch i rode.I also saw 410 at gunhill.Are there any more other than 402,403,405,406,407,408,409
R142/143MAN
AML
Amtrak modeling
Hey, that is a shock right there! So, IF THAT IS TRUE...that means that buses #402-403 and #405-412 are at Gun Hill! That also means that Mother Clara Hale gave some buses to Amsterdam for compensation. I believe that's what they did when buses #402-403 and #405-409 went to GH.
thsi must mean the new buses are on their way to MCH-if they are giving up buses to Gun hill that is
And what new buses will come to mch depot?
Well, I'm going to wait patiently to see what happens with the 9229-9249. If they get more Orions, then their RTS's will have to go somewhere else.
Once again, NJT 7618 has returned down South. The MCI was seen on the 551 crossing the Ben Franklin Bridge during rush hour this afternoon. This is the third time this bus was seen down here, much to the chagrin of poor Trevor who has tailed this bus all year. For some reason this bus likes to wander around between divisions. I think it has taken up residence at Washington Twp. again. Now how long she will stay here is anyone's guess. Maybe 7618 will up and leave when it feels like it. Oh by the way, did anyone figure out where 3000 is residing at down here? I rode it on the 403 (Wash. Twp) yesterday afternoon, but was it a loaner from Newton Ave, or a newly permanent resident at Washington Twp.?
Newton Avenue!
And as for 7618, I've given up keeping up with that bus!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Interestingly enough, both 3000 and 3700 (the first Flx Metro D suburban) are both assigned to Newton Av garage. I wouldn't be all that shocked if the first Neoplan suburban bus showed up in South Jersey as well.
On a last report, some one said that they saw 1989 Flxible Metro B 1700 getting crushed by a compactor at the Nimco Scrapyard facility. Well it is a fact that I have just seen this bus about an hour ago on the 87 Line, racing up Paterson Plank Road on the 87 line in Hoboken. She is alive and well and tearing up the asphalt.
Tony
All this talk about rts bus. There are borng even the painted one are boring there are some that are garbage and they look like garbage. But there are the longest running buses in New york they when past gmc fishbowl. But let faces is there are B O R I N G. Case close!
Orions nice to look at the 6000 series are nice. I like them, there not enough of them on the street. It like 35% of them are on the road.
Staten Island has the most.
The artic are my favorite, the 5000 series with the nice seating, there the future of New York, the box look. You see bus coming out are box looking. But the artic can't fit on some streets and even in sme depots.
That why the flyer can come in, but there only at Jackie Gleason depot has them, interesting.
If the TA needs new buses,there's the Flyer D series [non CNG]type,for depots that are not CNG ready.Also MCI has the molds for the FLXIBLE bus,there's the LFS[HA!]. Forget about the ORION 7.. It fell apart on the table,and there's no telling when thats gonna happen again. I'll just wait and see....
Forget about the ORION 7.. It fell apart on the table,and there's no telling when thats gonna happen again.
From what I've read, more than a few other manufacturer's buses were in pieces after being subjected to the Altoona shaker table.
Too many people on this board are on an anti-Orion VII vendetta. Their only proof of this vehicle's supposed inferiority is that one of these buses came apart during a shaker test. Does anyone think for a minute that a multinational giant like DaimlerChrysler (Orion's parent company) will take the risk of allowing another Grumman Flxible 870 NYC fiasco to happen to their bus? Just imagine what would happen to Chrysler's reputation on the East Coast if they allowed themselves to become the whipping boys for a bunch of grandstanding New York politicians. And how many people would think twice about buying a Dodge minivan if they repeatedly heard about Chrysler buses falling apart on Big Apple streets? Not to mention the fact that Nova's exit from the U.S. market and New Flyer's troubles have left a vacuum in the transit bus market that Orion can fill if this new bus is a success.
I work at a manufacturing company. New products are designed, and a prototype is built and tested. If it fails a test, it is reworked and tested again until it meets the necessary specifications. Contrary to popular opinion about greedy and amoral businesspeople, most companies work very hard to offer a quality product to their customers.
I like all transit buses, and I'm hoping that the Orion VII is a success. A competitive transit bus market is a good thing, both for the industry and for us fans who like to ride and photograph different models of buses.
J.D.
why did you quote only part of my statement,and not all? DID I not say,''I'll wait and see?''The statement was made partly from rumor[from this board],and the Fact that the ORION 5,6 aren't great buses. wasn't bashing the bus....
New Flyer has decided to go entirely low floor; I believe the last batch of D60HF artics due to arrive at the TA may be the last high floor order by New Flyer.
The LFS is no longer being offered in the United States; NovaBus has completely left the US market and is focusing mainly on Quebec and the Canadian Maritimes.
The other low floor options you neglected to mention are the Gillig Advantage low floor (though I'll be the first to admit it wouldn't work in NYC), the Neoplan low floor (Baltimore is about to recieve an order within the next few months), and the NABI low floors.
If the TA is still insistent on high floor buses, Neoplan and NABI still offer high floor models.
The options for new buses are limited, but they are still out there.
NFI will build high floors if the order is high enough.
And your point is???
"Boring" is very good if you are running an operation, because you want the equipment to keep going & going. If they have become invisable/boring to the railfans as well as the customers that is proof that it is a very G O O D bus.
The Redbirds come to mind....
"All this talk about rts bus. There are borng even the painted one are boring there are some that are garbage and they look like garbage. But there are the longest running buses in New york they when past gmc fishbowl. But let faces is there are B O R I N G. Case close! "
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must have been drinking lately talking all that nonsense, those RTS buses have served the TA for over 20 years, and still are in service today, I like them no matter what, CASE CLOSE!
-AcelaExpress2005
I am currently doing a custom paint job on a scale model bus for a gentleman in New York City.
Can anyone point me to a site where I can grab a MTA New York City Bus logo -- one that I can EASILY make into a decal?
The ones at the official MTA site are not good in that respect -- they are shadowed, won't reproduce for a decal very well. Basically a good black-on-white version would be best for what I need to do.
ALSO -- anyone know of a site that might have an overhead (i.e. ROOF) view showing MTA New York City Bus Orion V buses, particularly the 600 series? Need to know how the roof numbers are done so I can do them correctly on the scale model.
Thanks!!!!
On Saturday I saw NJ State D4500's #8788 and 8789 in an all-white paint scheme. 8789 was in service on the Mahwah to PABT Short Line route. I saw 8788 on Route 17, but don't know whether it was in service. A friend of mine advised me that he spotted 8788 broken down on Route 17 in Waldwick on Sunday; evidently, it had to be towed away. I guess these D4500's will receive a paint job eventually, possibly in Coach USA colors if Short Line isn't being sold. I have observed new D4500's at DeCamp and Lakeland in the past week, also in all-white.
I seen those buses too. Also 8790 has been painted in the Coach USA scheme.
Troy
Fairview Garage
Short Line is not the first, DeCamp was the first with 8436-8450, then Lakeland with 8760-8764, and THEN Short Line wth 8788-8793 (So Far). Short Line is to recieve 18 of these puppies!
Decamp units #8436 and 8437 are finally painted and Lakeland #8760 & #8764 is the only units painted up.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
These are all D4500 buses? I thought the 8400's were D4000?
The private carriers, for the most part, will have all their units grouped numerically, regardless of the three sizes (D4000, D4000N, D4500).
Bus #8794-8796 arrived today at the Mahwah Facility.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Re:New Suozzi budget (clipped from Newsday)
"In its most controversial element, the plan would decimate social services, bus routes and parks unless the county receives concessions from police unions that would save $30 million a year."
What the f*** is this? Cutting bus routes? You've got to be insane!
Especially after increasing service on routes just this fall.
Hopefully the state will kick in like last time.
Otherwise yours truly will be having even more fun, getting around Nassau without a car. :-(
["In its most controversial element, the plan would decimate social services, bus routes and parks unless the county receives concessions from police unions that would save $30 million a year." (quoted from Newsday)]
Basically, the routes belong to Nassau County; the MTA runs those routes under contract to the County, through its Long Island Bus subsidiary. As in any other context, if contractors don't get paid, then the contracted work doesn't get done.
Isn't NYC Transit the same way? The city pays them a certain subsidy.
Both Nassau county and NYC plan on cutting transit subsidies.
I'd rather see a fare hike than service cut.
[Isn't NYC Transit the same way? The city pays them a certain subsidy. Both Nassau county and NYC plan on cutting transit subsidies.]
In NYC it's a subsidy (which is never paid in full, if at all).
On the other hand, the relationship between Nassau County and Long Island Bus closer to, say, Westchester County's relationship with Liberty Lines Transit, or Suffolk County's relationship with several bus companies. MTA/LIB is a pure contract carrier, and Nassau County is the client.
But then, why doens't Nassau County just fire the MTA and hire a private carrier (or set of carriers) to save money? Because Suozzi and every other County official knows that a private carrier will pull buses immediately if no payments are made, while the Governor can always force the MTA to continue operating without being paid.
I think the relationship between Nassau and LI Bus should be like NYC is. LI Bus is way too intertied with Nassau county.
It's called LI Bus, not Nassau bus.
Gee he got the attention of at least one Nassau County resident, you know I think that was his intention.
For some reason, I've always been fascinated with bus scheduling. I've studied timetables trying to figure out how many buses are needed a day for a particular route. It can be difficult to determine this for some routes because all departures and arrivals aren't listed. The timetable might say, "then every 12 minutes" or "then every 8-9 minutes" etc.
Well, since I have a computer I've decided to try and figure out the blocking (or run numbers in NYCT parlance) for certain routes based on the public timetable. I've created an Excel spreadsheet and am listing the arrivals and departures at terminals and then will try to figure out the turns. I know that Friday night buses operate into Saturday mornings and Saturday night buses operate into Sunday mornings (for the 24 hour routes). I'm assuming a 10% recovery rate (10% of running time). One of the difficulties is I don't know pull outs and pull ins so I have assumed that a bus stays out until it is no longer needed, e.g. the headway was lengthened and another bus covers the next scheduled departure. I also assume that "every 8-10 minutes" means departures alternate, 8 minutes, 10 minutes, 8 minutes, ten minutes, etc.
One of the difficulties is that while departures might be "every 8-10 minutes," arrivals aren't every 8-10 minutes becuase the running time changes during the day. I have to fudge the arrival times.
It should be an interesting experiment.
Michael
Washington, DC
I've done M8 on paper but now have to transfer it to the spreadsheet.
With NYCT schedules, buses wouldn't operate 8, then 10, then 8, then 10 minutes apart. They might operate 8/9/8/9/..., but if they were going to run 8/10/8/10.... they'd actually operate 9/9/9/9....
What the public timetable might be trying to convey (and I haven't seen the specific one in mind, nor do I even know whether it's a New York one, so I don't know for sure) is that at various points during the period when exact times are not listed, service operates every 8, every 9, or every 10 minutes, maybe with an 8-minute headway sliding down toward a 10-minute headway as the day rolls along.
David
I'm writing about NYCT bus timetables. For example, look at M7 weekdays from Union Square to Harlem. After the 3:34 bus from Union Square, buses operate every 6-8 minutes.
Michael
Washington, DC
The customer timetable is an abridged version of what NYCT calls a "recap" or a "rotation," a listing of trips that includes run numbers (with reliefs if there are any). A decision was made (by whom, at what point, and using what criteria I don't know) not to list all trips, instead using "every x to y minutes" after listing several trips, then listing some more, then going back to "every x to y minutes," and so on.
Trying to reconstruct a schedule (which in NYCT parlance is a listing of runs/extras) is extremely difficult if not impossible, even with the help of a spreadsheet. Good luck, though.
David
You cannot figure out "what run does what" by a timetable, schedule or headway recap. Many lines are interlined, many runs deadhead, and a public schedule is no indication of what a specific run "does".
Our buses (for the most part) don't "go around in circles" all day. If you're interested in obtaining a "Paddle Report" (specific time schedule for a specific run on a specific route) for a NYCT run (my choice), email me and I'll send it out to you. That will give you an indication of what exactly a given rum might do.
I'll dig into my "Bag-O'Paddles" from picks-gone-bye....
I've tried to figure that stuff out in the past, but about the only run u can basically figure out is the first half of the hawk (run 001), especially if he's the only bus on the line, after that it's a crap shoot between pullouts, pullins, school trippers (thus school open/schhol closed schedule), reliefs, short trips, etc.
I gave up.
I saw this yestrday whiel riding home on the b64. The bus i was on (4758) was moving on about 5-10 miles a hour. the driver said that the bus doesnt have speed in any direction, especially if going up a hilly area(which 86th Street is somewhat between 11th and 7th av)-the lead bus was weaving through traffic(#4763)-except there was no traffic to weave through. The dirver on the bus i was on told me that the lead bus's axle was making the bus weave. I let a dispatcher know about this, but the bus was still in serivce.
It's apparent that Ulmer Park is not getting any new buses for local service anytime soon, but based on my observations, they should. If something happens to a driver or passanger on bus #4763, someone will get in a lot of trouble.
What else is new with UP buses. When I first got ther all they had were 3000's , 3100's, 3600's 3700's and 46-4700's. The 3000's and 3100's were slow as shit back then, I alway hoped I got a 46-4700's so at least if thay were slow I still had a good seat. Then UP got the 9000's and I almout stroke. They got ride of most the the shit there. Then we the B4 to JG and gave them the 46-4700's. Then they took away half the 9000's when the B8 went over to ENY and gave us the 7500's from FB. The left us again with the worst local fleet in the system. Right before I left US got the 4700's they have now from Amsterdame, my bother drove them there and told me that most of them the POS. So UP is the domping grond of the BROOKLYN for the most part. This was one of the Reseone I when to JGright before I became a T/O.
Robert
Today, I saw FLA 5082 or 5092 heading east on Linden Blvd (I was at Van Siclen Ave) towards the Conduits. Just the driver and the bus was moving under its own power. Any Idea where this bus might be going?
B44#5082LTD
B46#5092LTD
My Guess is that they are heading to one queens depots or maintenance facility.
-AcelaExpress2005
Perhaps it had just had some major work done at the East New York Main Shop and was being taken for a shakedown cruise.
David
most of the 5000`s at flatbush have been getting some warranty work done at the cmf in eny . they were probably just road testing that bus.
Well, I noticed that buses #5250 and #5334 have been repainted. I guess there 3 year limit is up. Are there any more buses that have been repainted? I'm not talking about the #1000-1109 series...those are already done!
I have not saw not 1 1000-1109 Series New Flyer Artics Repainted
Really - Just drop into Manhattan. They're quite easy to find on Quill's routes. There's also still some in The Bronx. I'm sure all of them have been repainted. A few still have their silver rims.
Wayne
I have not seen Artics that much lately. I play with WSLL and I going to Riverside Park on Sunday to go play Socker with my friends at WSLL and some from my school
Saw 651 getting off the Whitestone Bridge today. This bus is Repainted and now have the pipe on the top.
And 247 from MCH is still not repowered but it now have the TwinVision Ornage LED Signs. Saw it leaveing Union Square as a M7 to MCH Depot(Lenox ave and 146 St)
Are you sure about that? Bus #651 with the pipe on top? That means that Queens has the first in it's borough!
651 DOES NOT HAVE A PIPE ON TOP. Perhaps you saw 551? 561? 661?
Friend of mine said he saw 651 in depot today-no pipe.
247 DOES have the Orange sign. I saw her on M1 recently-NOT REPOWERED.
#651 Q32
#551 Q44
#247 M1
Had a chance to take the Q53,Q35 and B100 today from woodside home. All 3 buses ran well. But have to ask 2 questions:
saw GBL #715 repainted in blue in the front. Is this something new?
and caught Command #4976 home. I know this was a orignally TA bus, but was the number #8396 or #8397? Just wondering.
Q53-#3005-Orion V CNG
Q35-#291-RTS II-04
B100-#4976-TMC
4976 was either 8398 or 8399 when it was a NYCT bus.
David
I used to see #3005 often on the Q53. I have not saw #715 Lately. Where you saw it?
Cross Bay Boulevard making the right turn towards Rockaway Boulevard. It was going the opposite of my direction so could not see what route it was on.
I used to see #3005 often on the QM12. I have not saw #715 Lately. Where you saw it?
Is Green Lines getting taken over by the MTA Finally? I wish!
I remember I saw Triboro 701 with a Blue and White TA Door in the front. This was right before it got repainted. It does not have that door anymore.
As far as 715-probably a TA part on a GBL Bus. Otherwise not sure.
#701 Q18
#715 Q60
It started off with 8812 (Flxible B F14) to New Carrolton, just missed the R12 going to Greenbelt, caught "The Bus" 63016 (Startrans cutaway 16) to Greenbelt. At Greenbelt, caught the B30 4393 to BWI. This bus had a identity problem in the side destination sign. It had in the destination part B30-BWI Airport and in the route number sign, the F13. Anyways onto BWI.
Got to BWI and caught the light rail to Downtown Baltimore ate lunch, and headed to catch what I thought would be the 91 going to Mondawmin Mall. I got to the Charles Street Station and waited as bus after bus past by till the 91 came. Instead of saying "Mondawmin Mall" it said "City Hall", and I then realized I was on the wrong side, so up I headed to Fayette to catch the 91. When I got to the bus stop, I realized, it was the 5 going to Mondawmin Mall, and so I waited. I got the 5, 9709 (NABI) and boy that bus was busy, got a 30 flashback.
Something about alot of Baltimore's buses. They have had their destination signs replaced, from yellow to orange, but they only did the front and side so on buses with back route number signs, they are still yellow. Also they too have had their wrap-around taillights replaced with LEDs and even though they look better than WMATA's they are still ugly. Back to the story, I got to Mondawmin took a little break and waited for the M1 to Millford Mill. I spotted something of note also. It seems that Balt MTA are having bike racks installed also and they have apparently the same ones as WMATA's, but later I noticed one difference. 9941 had a black one but the rest I have observed have the silver ones. I caught 0054 a 2000 NABI that was probably delivered in 2001. These buses were supposed to be delivered in 2000 but most were delivered in 2001. This bus had a bike rack and these buses are the first Baltimore coaches to have a stop announcement system. This system is a little different from WMATA's in that (1)the voice is different, sounds more like a black woman and (2) the announcement system is tied in with the stop request system, so when someone requests a stop, the stop request comes up after the street name is said. Again back to the story. We tried to get out of Mondawmin Mall but about 15 minutes before, some goober ran a truck off of the road, he hit a tree and a light pole, blocking the road. The driver called the accident in and after about 15 more minutes, had to back up and turn right,she was supposed to turn left, if the accident wasn't blocking the way. I do have to give props to the bus driver. She made a u-turn on a three lane road and didn't have to back up. I spotted more bike rack buses and it seems that the Northern Parkway (I think that is correct, if not someone let me know) are the only bus garage that has gotten them so far. As we neared Millford Mill, we past a school, teenagers were waiting, teenagers got on, teenagers were loud, wish this bus would get to the subway station fast. Finally we got to the subway station, and got on the subway back to Charles Street Subway Station.
I walked to the light rail station at Pratt Street and began to make my way home.
I got 4390 enroute to Greenbelt and when I got to Greenbelt, I made some observations there. It seems that now Montgomery's Orion Vs are now getting bike racks, must have been on back order (hehe). I spotted 2143 and 2135 with them. 8774 had its flag still on and 9774 actually has the flag either attached to the standee pole or attached to the destination sign, because it was hanging down from that sign, just showing. The next B30, 4395 was so packed that someone was seen standing, either that or someone was just standing to get off, but it still looked really crowded. 9773 and 9767 has just about the shinest wheels I have ever seen, without being chrome. Also with 9774, the route number read R120, instead of R12. The driver got another driver to help him but it didn't work. The back route number was correct, being that it had been for about four months, even on other if the other route wasn't an R12. I also spotted 35' SLF and tried to see if I could ride it. The bus unloaded its passengers, but then left the station. I thought it was going out of service but as I was riding the R12 (Orion 6- 2036), back to New Carrollton, I spotted it running the 15X. If it were running the 16, I would have waited to ride it and if I knew it would come back I would have taken a picture. I got back to New Carrolton, I waited and got F14, 8802 (Flxible B) back home.
I was down in Philly this past weekend and took the opportunity to ride the PHLASH bus around Center City. Although this bus is listed on the SEPTA map I think that it may be operated by someone else. Does anyone know who does operate it and the kind of vehicles that they use. They are numbered in the 100 series.Thanks for any help.
Larry,RedbirdR33
I believe it's operated by the city of Philadelphia itself.
When I was in Philly in August, most of the PHLASH buses were Orion II's, plus at least one Ford cutaway bus. I intended to ride the PHLASH to get around the city, but ended up using my SEPTA day pass exclusively.
JD
Ironically, the PHLASH is operated by SEPTA under contract to the city. Because of the terms of the contract, this route is NOT integrated into the regular SEPTA system, so it cannot accept any SEPTA fare instruments, nor it issues transfers, or passes to any SEPTA line. The fleet uses in the PHLASH service is a mixture of Orion II's, Ford Cutaways, and a couple of Metrotrans buses that got to Philly before the company went bankrupt. A couple of the Orions and all of the Metrotrans buses are CNG.
PHLASH is a route managed (poorly, IMHO) by the City of Philadelphia and operated by SEPTA's "Trenton-Philadelphia Coach" division, based out of the former Germantown Depot (which is now a storage yard for retired PCC cars and acceptance yard for para-transit vans, in addition to the base for PHLASH, Route 310/311 Breeze service in Horsham Twp, Montgomery County, and the Route 316/LUCY loop service in University City).
The PHLASH does not accept SEPTA fare instruments, which makes in inconvenient for visitors who want to use a SEPTA Day Pass and also ride the Phlash. The city's Deputy Mayor for Transportation, Christopher Zearfoss, lobbied very hard against allowing SEPTA fare instruments to be used on this line. In the eyes of many who follow the inner workings of SEPTA very closely (myself included, obviously), Zearfoss came across as an arrogant jerk, which kinda reflects the entire attitude of his boss, Mayor Street.
The PHLASH was extended to the Philadelphia Zoo last December, replacing Route 76 service, which is now known as the Center City Shopping Spree (the biggest waste of SEPTA resources since the ever popular Fox Chase-Newtown shuttle bus service that replaced rail service between these two points in the mid-1980s).
The vehicles used on PHLASH is essentially a variety of junk (this may be a little generous). Here's a listing of these (ahem) buses used on PHLASH:
* 101-105: Orion II CNG (circa 1994); 103 scrapped due to fire damage
* 106-115: Various cutaway buses (some with the hideous MetroTrans cutaway design, some of which appear to be former Montgomery County (Md.) Ride-On buses; the bulk of these buses have been removed from service)
* 116-118: Orion II Diesel (circa 1997-98)
* 119-124: MetroTrans Legacy 30' CNG buses (I have only seen 119, 122, and 124, but I'm not even sure about those numbers besides 119; MetroTrans went out of business as this order - and SEPTA's 80 bus order - was being built)
The above buses are owned by the City of Philadelphia and leased to SEPTA.
Also used are SEPTA owned cutaway buses 2056 and 2057, though I've also seen 2023 used from time to time.
Why did Ride-On's (well, really ATE/Ryder's) cutaways wind up in Philly? I don't miss them, you are free to keep all of them.
Speaking of ex Ride On cutaways ending up elsewhere, spotted one on the Grand Bahama Islands back in 2000 and still with the destination sign saying "27 Medical Center". I didn't pay it any attention until that caught my eye.
Did you see a number on that? I wonder how late that 27 would be in getting to Medical Center. It would make the trips arriving 10 to 15 minutes late look pretty good, wouldn't it?
When in 2000 did you see this? My first 5100 series sighting was on September 10 of 2001, so I don't think you could have seen it then.
LOL, yeah, talk about getting your money's worth for $1 on that run!! It was Labor Day weekend 2000. It looked like a pretty older Cutaway. I didn't see a number. The blue stripe was still on the sides, but the company that was now running it scraped off "Ride On" and put theirs on.
I have a picture of it somewhere. My friends joked with me that of course it would be me to see something like that.
Be nice if you could scan and post it or e-mail it to me. I would love to see it!
I'll have to track it down and definitely do that! I don't have a scanner, but I have a friend that does and can have him do that for me.
My guess is that the City of Philadelphia bought them second hand. I don't know the exact details, nor do I really care because the Phlash fleet is an afterthought to me.
was phlash still have that protype.
Thank you all very much for the respones to my post. I had a hunch that this route was outside the regular SEPTA system. I did ride two of the buses, probably the Metrotrans and it is a nice round trip and useful if you are visting the museums. Both drivers were quite friendly and entertaining. They must have been local Philly men because they were very knowledgeable about their town.
Best Wishes, Larry,RedbirdR33
I went to Rockaway Park today. I took the 7 train from Flushing going. I managed to catch the last Manhattan express around 12 noon and took it to Woodside where I got the Q53.
It was a great ride going. Those Orion V CNG's run great! Hard to believe LI Bus has practically the same buses.
Quick ride, and I enjoyed my afternoon in the cool ocean air of Rockaway Park.
Going back I had another Orion V CNG, this one like the first, was painted in all white (it looked naked).
Equally fast ride, but this time I got off at Jackson heights for the 7 local.
As far as the LI Bus rides went, it was the usual crap on the N21.
Going we got nailed at Great Neck with pax, and it was a slow ride. Man was that S50G loud. In Queens ahead of us was an almost comedical LI Bus maint truck. Driving with one of the rear doors open and moving back and forth. At least it didn't hit any cars.
Going back was even more fun. The 5:44pm was running late and the bus ahead of it never showed (the 5:35 to Great Neck) so the line got to three bus lengths long before the bus came about 10 minutes late.
We were packed, I was lucky to get a seat. A slow ride. This was an L10G bus and of course it was slow like all LI Buses.
After Great Neck, the a/c was shut off. Fortunately this time the windows did open.
A great day for Rockaway though. I just wish LI Bus wouldn't have been a part of it!
Greetings fellow Bus Talkers, I am in need of pictures of GM Old Looks, and Fishbowls lettered for MaBSTOA. I need them for a project I'm working on. If anyone could help out I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
First place to try is this site under the Bus Fest Pictures. Also I believe that there is a section with many pictures from Joe Testagrosse's collection of buses of all boroughs and ages.
In addtion Mike Gallant has a site called Transit Buses Pages. There are pictures of buses from many communities. I think there are some NYC stuff there....... http;//web.utk.edu/~gallant/transitbuses.html
There are probably others out there too......Happy surfing !!!!!!
Saw the movie on TV the other night; it opens up with a NYC RTS roaring by. Funny enough, I was working on a pair of bus banks for a customer that looked just like it!
-F.
That was 1648
It became PA4199 in other movies I believe.
I remember riding PA1648 in her last days on the S54 from Castleton.
Has anyone here seen the diet mountain dew commercial where the old lady throws the business man out of the cab? what is the bus that appears in the background in the beginning of the commercial? i swear it looks like a neoplan but I can't tell what TA it is.
Its definitely a Neoplan artic, but I've been trying to figure that one out too. Maybe Denver?
Nope. That's in San Francisco, and the bus in question is a SF Muni 6200-series Neoplan AN-460 artic. Those replaced the 6000-series 1984 MAN SG 310 artics.
Thanks! I had given up on trying to figure out what city it was!
Just some additional information:
The operator in question may have recieved 3 day suspension, as a result of their behavior last week. This operator is the normal operator for this particular run, and was replaced by a super cool B/O monday through wednesday this week, and was seen back in service this morning. Apparently other passengers must have complained to the TA about last week. If only the super cool B/O were the regular B/O for this run... my mornings would be so much better.
Just in case you wanted to know...
- The person obsessed with NFI..
Maybe he is on vacation, maybe he is out sick, maybe he went to some kind of TA school......
I know that something happened cause: The onlt thing he said over the PA system was : Please move towards the rear of the bus, Thank you, in a slow clear and polite tone of voice.
Memo to self-- SCORE!!
an operator will not serve a suspension until he goes through the arbitration process. that could takes weeks and months. i doubt very much that the operator in question was already serving a suspension.
Not so fast there buddy,
Usually Suspensions Go Like This.....
1) Passenger Complaint Is Recieved
2) Notice Is Sent Out to Driver For a Union/Supervision Hearing
3) Disciplinary Action is Taken (Suspended, Fired, Etc.)
4) Union will File a Greivance During The Disciplinary Action Time.
5) If Accepted, a 2nd Hearing/Arbitration Is Done
Now in a case like this, if he was suspeneded from the initial hearing, he has to serve the time and it goes in his permenant file, HOWEVER if its taken to the 2nd Step, the only thing the Union can fight is to have to infraction taken off his records and replaced with Public Relations Classes or Something suitable to Supervision.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
BLX is qualified to answer questions regarding diSciplinary action against b/o's. BLX was a b/o, dispatcher, union chairperson and is a manager. First, when a complaint comes in, the b/o (with union rep) will be called in to the G/S office and asked about the complaint. Now, it depends on the type of complaint, what the b/o's response is, and overall record of the b/o. The G/S and his/her superior (AGM of depot -or- even the boro GM) will make a decision on whether to bring this b/o up on charges. The b/o must be written up on an official form with the discipline proposed. Union contract calls for 'progressive discilpine' which means that a G/S can't just jump to a 5 day suspension. If the b/o had prior actions (warning, reprimand, 1 day susp, etc.) then they may just go to 3, 5, 10 days or just suspension pending dismissal. Sometimes, a b/o will be offered 'administrative' suspension, meaning that it goes on his/her record but no time was served (would read: 1 day suspension-NTS). Now if the b/o is given a 3 day suspension, the union and b/o can go to the next step, which would be to the boro manager of labor relations. By this time, the discipline will most likely be 'rubber stamped'. If union and b/o still not happy, then a hearing with the TA Central Labor Relations dept. in downtown Brooklyn can occur. After this, the union can go to the arbitrator (selected by labor and management during contract negotiations). Most times, only serious cases like dismissal go to arbitration. A suspension for a few days probably will not end up at the arbitrator. Arbitrators decision is binding on both parties. If a dismissal is upheld, b/o can (and many times does) seek outside counsel who takes matter through the court system. Sometimes, b/o gets job back, back pay too. Sometimes, nothing. Now BLX asks you, was this presented in a logical manner -or- do you feel that the word of BLX is laced with a biased tone leaning towrds those that feel the needs of mass transit only when their SUV (Saudi Utility Vehicle) is being repaired. Talk to BLX, he's user friendly.
Well that may be the TA way, The TOR-nado was just speaking from the way it is done at COACH USA, The TOR-nado has had a few hearings in his Transit Career.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Ironically enough Trevor, If you can recall the BX22 B/O which I told you about, which closed the front doors on a guy's arm and nearly had the crap beaten outta him, skips the first stop ( by changing the sign to " NOT IN SERVICE" as he comes up the block, as if we're blind) and goes right around the corner when running late, and finds ways of harassing/ provoking people unnecessarily each day, and has been suspended numerous times before, This is the SAME guy . You'd think that he'd learn by now...
Some people never learn, some people just need to be FIRED!!!!!!!
I know when I had my hearings it was over stupid shit, not even passenger complaints, just supervision watching me and shit, the got me one time for opening up my door at a Railroad Track, Got me For having High Beams On, Got Me For having a roof hatch open, you know real stupid shit!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Well, with the new curb lights on all the new NJT-ordered equipment, it's pretty easy to see if the driver doesn't open the door if you're watching from the curbside. You don't even have to see the door, just the curb light that's behind the rear axle. My office is alogside a freight line with grade crossings - easy to spot the NJT 709 and 164.
Around 8 PM Thursday upon exiting the Parsons/Archer E/J/Z station, the line for the N4 (Freeport route) was like I've never seen before, circling the escalator. All of a sudden, one bus shows up, then another. As they load, here comes #3 holding back a bit. #1 leaves and #3 pulls into that spot, then #2 goes away, almost as full as #1. As #3 takes on around a dozen people, here comes #4 which leaves right after #3 with just one person aboard. I am not ragging on MSBA at all. I understand that this kind of thing happens. I figured I saw all the assigned buses in just 5 minutes! Obviously somewhere along the route there was big, big traffic jam/road closure which brought the line to a halt. Anyone know what caused this bus bunching?
Well LI Bus (MSBA) is unreliable. Buses do get bunched alot on crowded routes. Long lines for those long island buses are a common sight. There were delays in N20/21 service last evening in Flushing.
From a period from 5:20pm to 5:50pm there were no eastbound buses. The line on Roosevelt avenue was three bus lengths long.
The first bus (an N21) was packed and I didn't see any Flushing bound N20/21's until near Cross Island Parkway, about 4 packed buses in a row and an empty 5th one.
A combination of terrible traffic, unreliable equipment (poor upkeep), and confused riders cause to make LI Bus routes quite unreliable. Especially those busy Nassau-Queens routes.
wellwhat makes busses out here in las vegas so bad, is construction, people get on and don't have there change out, alot of drivers don't seem to efficiently know how to load wheelchairs..... heaven forbid if it ever rains.....
There was a sewer collapse at the height of rush hour at the massive intersection of Sunrise/Merrick/Centre/Lincoln in Rockville Centre. Huge traffic jams in the area. When the roads were opened up a bit at about 7 PM, I saw 5 eastbound N4's in about 5 minutes.
CG
Last night I was on the X15 and when we got to Water Street to head to the BBT, we got stuck there for at least 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. The reason was a foot race.
My driver was told that there would be a foot race, but was not given a route to detour.
I decided to call 718-330-1234 and pressed option 1 for info on the foot race.
The message was basically like: Tonight, there will be a foot race in Downtown Manhattan below Fulton Street. Passengers are to expect Major Delays as a result of this race. THERE ARE NO ROUTE DIVERSIONS SCHEDULED.
How F@cking Stupid are those B@stards? The won't reroute the buses for the time being? I felt bad for my operator, as the passengers were taking it out on him and he told them that he could not leave the route unless authorized. Common Sense People.
Why couldn't they reroute the buses to like South Street????
when i use to work the x27, if there was any type of closure at the brooklyn battery tunnel i would, without hesitation, head to the manahttan bridge. i probably would have done it for some foot race also.
I attended a meting in Coney Island about the Shuttle Bus service. People are requesting an Q Bus Shuttle saying that the B-68 service is horrible.
Also effective Monday Stillwell Ave bound buses will operate via West 5th Street instead of West 8th Street.
They acknowledge that the Shuttle Bus service is in need of improvement and that they will be working on it.
The gentlemen from Operations Planning was receptive however the women from Public Relations should be fired. Everything she said was either a lie or just plain stupid
Thank You
Incidentally, there is a humongous "F" Shuttle bus operation between Church Ave. and Hoyt-Schermerhorn this weekend.
I wasn't at the meeting, but I know there's no such thing as Public Relations at NYC Transit. There's Government Relations, and there's Public Affairs. Which office was the woman in question from, and what did she say that was a lie or "stupid?"
David
She was from Public Affairs.
Her list of lies and stupidity are longer than an articulated bus.
If you want to know than e mail me at BarryLv@netscape.net on Monday and i will be glad to give you my phone number and will discusess it with you at a mutually convienent time.
I respect the work that you do because of your postings here on bus talk
Thank You
Unfortunately, my work (and other things) schedule isn't going to allow me any time for that conversation. Rest assured, though, that steps are being taken to improve the F Shuttle situation.
David
David,
Yes the TA is working to fix it but you have to realize that the TA could have avoided the problem if they did it right the first time.
Operations Planning looks for the cheapest way out.
They look at situation on paper and if looks good they try it.
Do they go out and look at it in person. No way
The TA makes committments and then they do not honor them
Look at the mess they made with the Manhattan Bridge situation last year?
They make statements that no N Line passengers go to Coney Island.
Yes it was said?
It was said that a Q Shuttle Train can be put in for the summer for the benefit of the Coney Island Chamber of Commerce!
Why not now for the residents of Coney Island!!
Why do they take a bus out of the way by routing the B-68 via West 5th St and Neptune Ave to Stillwell Ave which takes 10 minuates while it only takes 4 minuates to operate via Surf Ave between West 5th and Stillwell?
Why do they charge people double fares to use the B-68 and transfer to the Q? Yes its being done and i have seen it?
Why can't they issue block transfers between the B-68 and the Q subway ?
Why becuae the Pyblic Relations Lady says that they can't keep control of it?
I am sorry David the TA bosses just do not know whats going on
Thank You
The F shuttle could have been done better.
The F shuttle should have been done better.
The F shuttle will yet be done better.
However, I have one objection/observation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. What happens when it's time to restore F service to Coney Island? Will the people of Trump/Warbasse be so used to having door-to-door service that they then demand that the bus be kept even though there will no longer be an operational reason for its existence? Or, even worse, will they demand that the Culver Line elevated structure be RELOCATED closer to their housing complexes? Who's got money for THAT?
David
David,
The B-68 will be permanent extenstion. This was first proposed in the 1995 Southwest Brooklyn Transit Study.
But who can the TA blame for this change. Themselves. They implemented it by operating via Neptune Ave. The TA created this mess and they will have to blame themselves for it
BTW its the Q Line and not the F Line
Thank You
I must apologize for talking about the F shuttle bus and not the Q shuttle bus. I was misled by the Subject line of this thread.
The B68 isn't running very well and needs to be watched more closely by the Department of Buses; for the long term, new schedules incorporating additional running time MIGHT (I stress M-I-G-H-T) be necessary; one cannot tell for certain without analyzing traffic checks, which to my knowledge have not yet been conducted. My educated guess (living near the route and having spent a great deal of time around it recently as I worked on another project that is not connected to this issue) is that additional service is not necessary. I know the B68 change is "permanent," as much as anything around here is "permanent." The B68 is supplemented (coming out of Coney Island in the AM rush and going toward Coney Island in the PM rush) by short trips (the "shuttle") that are operated by Extras. Whether it would have been better to operate a dedicated shuttle (probably without extending the B68 to Stillwell) is a moot argument -- it wasn't done and I strongly doubt it will be. As to whether fares should be collected or not, that was a policy decision made at the highest levels of management (I'm nowhere near those levels).
David
>>The F shuttle could have been done better.
The F shuttle should have been done better.
The F shuttle will yet be done better.<<
Just wait till winter comes around and it snows !
Bill "Newkirk"
By that time the improvements will have been made.
David
I noticed the M14A and the M14D bus routes but where is the M14C? From what I'm getting off the Manhattan Bus Map is that the M14D is taking over both the M14C and M14D?
Because of the 9/11 attacks the NYC Police Department has blocked East 14th Street between Ave C and Ave D till traffic because of the Con Edison plant located there.
The TA was forced to consolidate the M 14 Avenue C and D branches into one service. They finally submitted the consolidation to the MTA Board which approved it late Spring
Thank You
[The TA was forced to consolidate the M 14 Avenue C and D branches into one service.]
In the public timetable, the combined branch is called "C," while bus operators seem to be using the "D" readings. In any case, the "C" and "D" branches differed ONLY between 10th and 14th Streets; both used Avenue D between Houston and 10th Streets.
Look on the MTA site and you will see a major shuttle bus operation on the F this weekend from Hoyt-Schemerhorn Streets to Church Avenue.
It says there will be 2 shuttles.
One is local bus making all stops, and one is express bus between the 2 stations.
Questions
What depot(s) are handling this G/O?
Will I expect to see MCIs as the "EXPRESS"? or will they be Locals making only the 2 stops (Similar to the X80-83 operations?)
At Gun Hill they put signs for Overtime for this shuttle.
i was told that Ulmer Park had 26 runs on the F Shuttle between Hoyt Street to Church Avenue and about 11 runs on the weekend for regular F shuttle service. Supposedly, there were 100+ runs on the major F shuttle this week supplied by 126th,ENY,JG,FP and UP.
Whats up guys this is my first time on bustalk.
1.About the F train G.O., I rode the F shuttle bus & I saw so many buses it was unbelievable. There was a whole block of buses waiting to take people to where they had to go. The depots that were operating on the G.O. were ENY, MV, FB, UP, JG, FP, 126, MCH, MJQ, HP & even Gun Hill.
2.There were no express shuttle buses yesterday (why I dont know) & there were no MCI's but there were RTS softseaters from UP.
Okay. This afternoon I am on my way to school. I decide that since I have time to kill, I might as well take the bus from Parkchester to Harlem; I figure that I'd have a margin for error since I've done so in the past going the other way and the total trip time was about 65-70 minutes (only 10-15 minutes more than transferring from subway to bus).
Well, I get on the Bx4 at Grant Circle, and stay on it all the way to the Hub. I got a seat in the back, and the bus was fairly empty, with a 35 minute ride.
It was all downhill from there. I get off, notice that South Bronx High School just unleashed all its students. I also notice how much construction activity there is in the Hub. And finally, I notice that there is no Bx19 in sight; there wouldn't be any for about 20-25 minutes. Keep in mind that I started my trip @ 1:50 PM.
Now it is 2:30 PM. Well, a Bx19 finally comes @ 2:35. Well, three of them. No, five. All SRO (the first three BRO, thanks to primary and high school students). I decide to hop on the fourth bus, #255, in which I figured on getting a seat since it was in the best condition of the five. I was dead wrong.
After crawling along 149th Street, the bus reaches Grand Concourse, to find that Cardinal Hayes unleashed all its boys into the area. The B/O didn't bother collecting fares from the boys, since there were so many of them. They all packed onto the back, where they proceeded in vulgarities that lasted all the way to Edgecombe. In the process, there were other kids who got on the bus, not to mention older folks, mothers and children, and the B/O switch @ Malcolm X/Lenox Av. Oh, and did I mention that there was the usual bottleneck between Douglass and St. Nick's?
Once getting to convent I got off. Total trip time (incl. delay): 95 minutes.
That's OK; check out my usual commute every day...
5:00 A.M.: Wake up, get ready for work.
5:15 A.M.: Jump on the bike. Ride three country miles to the nearest bus stop, partially uphill while carrying a heavy bag.
5:55 A.M.: Board the first bus to the VA Hospital.
6:15 A.M.: Transfer to the second bus to get from Salem into Roanoke.
6:45 A.M.: Transfer to the third bus to get to work.
6:55 A.M.: Jump off the bus, with two blocks to go and less than five minutes to get there.
7:00 A.M.: Get there just in the nick of time.
Total travel time: 1 hr. 45 minutes. Repeat four times weekly.
Three miles, three buses.
-F.
Ouch!
Tell me about it.
F.
Did you have to deal with any unruly noise in the process?
Oh yes, plenty. I live in a very car-happy area of the United States. On the bike, I get a lot of people blasting their horns and yelling "Get the f#@% out the road!" just to be stupid. Meanwhile, I ride along the very right side with traffic and obey the laws as I am supposed to, so they have no reason to be so anal about it. That is the worst part of my daily commute, dealing with those mongrels.
-F.
That's an Onion for ya-a bus that will bring tears to your eyes. ;)
Give me an RTS over that shoebox any day.
#5181 M42
I was on a S63 to Patchogue that was running way behind schedule a few years back. She was a Gillig 35 footer with the Series 50, 9630. It was a very jerky ride cause of all the hard stops due to speeding to make up time. Every few minutes the low air warning buzzer would go off so he had to stop and fast idle the engine to build up pressure. This was the connecting bus to the S68, the last bus for the day departing at 6:20pm. By the time I got to Patchogue, the S68 had already left and I was too exhausted to walk the few blocks to the train station. Mom was passing by so she gave me a ride home.
I remember taking the N79 from Walt Whitman mall back to Hicksville on a Saturday. I made sure I was going to take the bus before the bus that connected to the last N20 out of Hicksville. Well that bus broke down, it was a Gillig and had a flat. So then we had to wait an hour for the last connecting bus, which had 15 minutes of time to connect to that last N20.
This bus, an Orion CNG was running 10 minutes late, and was having problems. Stalled out a few times, and fortunately the driver radioed to the N20 to wait. Fortunately it did. Otherwise I don't know how I would've gotten home.
N20 connected with N27 just fine though. (N79 would've missed the last N27 to Glen Cove at RF).
After that experience I always allow alot of extra time, and never travel too far with LI Bus on weekends.
Oh how living on Long Island and it's crappy transit is such a challange!
I used to ride the N79 from Walt Whitman mall to Hicksville myself. Problem was I had to take the S54 crosstown to get to the mall. The train would have put me too far away from my destination. Riding that bus is as bad as riding the S40. Getting a seat, even at the terminal can be a challenge when u have to deal with the morning crowd that pours off the S/66/S68 and not all of them practice good personal hygeine.
BTW, the S63 driver did radio the S68 to wait, but all the constant stopping to build up pressure put us even further behind schedule and the 68 could only wait so long.
Come on! You can still ride far on LIBus On weekends. It was just a problem that driver can't handle.
I rode the N79 before like 2 Times. Not alot of People ride the N79 into Walt Wiltman Mall in the Midday Hours. When I got the 2:48 to Mineola and I had Orion V CNG #154 and it left with Me,My Mom,and 2 Other Passengers. Those 2 Passengers used a ST Transfer and me and my mom used a MetroCard.
BTW. I never knew LI Bus takes ST Transfers and ST Takes LI Bus Transfers.
And are the ST Transfers are Green and Blue? b/c when I saw them it was White and Blue
35-foot Gilligs are what we run exclusively here in Roanoke; are you referring to Suffolk Transit, I assume?
-F.
spotted bus 8248 on this route. its not listed on the roster. howell is listed as having 8205-8229. is this a recent arrival. 5155 still runnig there too.
[spotted bus 8248 on this route. its not listed on the roster. howell is listed as having 8205-8229. is this a recent arrival.]
I don't know which roster you are referring to, but the NJ Transit rosters I've seen on various fan-sites are usually somewhat out of date as more new deliveries of D4000's and D4500's come in. I believe 8248 is fairly new, although it may have been delivered several months back.
[5155 still runnig there too.]
It is getting harder and harder to spot 5000 and 6000 series Cruisers. Because Howell tends to have so many more rush-hour only runs than many other NJT garages, there tend to be a decent number of old Cruisers out of Howell, especially the 5000 series (which are relatively new to Howell).
5155 was spotted on the 139 at high noon a time when njt would have plenty of newer buses available. i checked the only roster i find on the web and that is dave mackeys. hes pretty up to date and lists 8200 series up to 8245 so i assume 8248 to be a new arrival as 8230-8245 went to meadowlands i believe. he lists 7451-7465 as also at howell.
Actually, here is how it goes, List for d4501's for Meadowlands and Howell Garages.
7419 Howell
7420-7421-Meadowlands
7422-Howell
7423-7441-Meadowlands
7442-Howell
7443-7452-Meadowlands
7453-7465-Howell
8202-Howell
8204-Howell
8205-8229-Howell
8230-8245-Meadowlands
8246-8250-Howell
Tony M.
are there any more coming to howell?
Most likely, they have to finish replacing the mci 9's.
The 4 previous coach orders of NJT all went to Howell first - the 2 MC-9 orders, the Eagles, and the CNG MCIs. Because of this, NJT was rightly criticized for "playing favorites" with the passengers of the route 9 corridor. Thus, Howell was inentionally last with the new MCI delivery. In fact, Oradell is now 100% D-series - they have no MC-9s at all.
And, those 5100s were sent to Howell at the expense of Washington Twp, which in exchange, got some of Oradell's junk, while Oradell got part of the first batch of D4000s. The arrival of the 5100s at Howell allowed for the retirement of the Eagles at that depot (the Newton Av/Camden Eagles and MC-9As were also retired and replaced with the some of the first batch of D4000s).
On a side note, both Washington Twp and Newton Av are all D4000 depots; there may be a few MC-9Bs at Egg Harbor, but I haven't been down that way in almost a year.
I agree that the route 9 corridor has been receiving "special treatment" from NJT when it came to bus orders. I'll bet that the hybrid buses that NJT ordered will go there also.
Troy
Im not sure who posted about CS getting more buses from MCH however, I would like to know which of MCHs buses would be going to CS once the Orion 7s arrive. BTW what will the Orion 7s look like? Anything compared to JGs low floor buses? Also once the "extra" buses go to CS will CSs 500s go to QV to accomodate spacing for the extra buses?
Look at 6365. That is the Onion 7's. JG is getting 7560-7619 and that's the CNG Version of the Onion 7.
As far as what is going where, who knows and who cares? Just as long as there is service and it gets me from A to B then I'm happy. :)
#1979 X17
The buses that are at MCH (#173-226) WERE at CS from the start! Who knows and who cares! We will know when it happens! Like sometime NEXT YEAR!
I remember that those were good buses, before that repowering nonsense. Oh well.
That "repowering nonsense" has a lot to do with air pollution. The new engines are much cleaner.
Yes, that's what I've been told, but they run like GARBAGE. They rattle and shake like crazy. I will miss the QV 7000's when they're gone. Gotta love the classic bus sounds....
I was riding home the other day and heard our local TA is getting hit with a double whammy. First of all, our downtown is undergoing a revitalization where people are refurbishing historic buildings, etc. and making it once again a place to live after 50 years of progressive suburbanization.
This is a great idea; after all, IMO, storefront apartments and the like have a character all their own. Also, the tenants of these places have come together to form the Downtown Living Association, which is all very fine. However, part of their agenda is to move our transit center out of downtown. Why? "The buses are just so noisy", they say.
What's more, downtown business owners want to move it because the bus station brings in too much "riff-raff". Meanwhile, a fair amount of their customers access them via riding the buses! These people are turning their clientele away if they succeed.
Another issue is a conflict within the terminal; Greyhound is giving our TA trouble. If a "dog" is pulling out at the same time as transit buses, they honk the horn and wave their fists at our drivers. In fact, some have tried to start shouting matches with TA staff.
This is just rude and intolerable; after all, IMO a centralized location for both city buses and Greyhound coaches is ideal as it gives a central bus station to the community, and those guys have no right to interfere with local service. Besides, it is a delight for us busfans as well; that gives us the opportunity at places such as Lansing, MI to view what their equipment looks like as we are passing through.
Let me know your thoughts on this, folks. I'd like to get your opinions on these flagrant disrespects for public transit.
-F.
>>> Another issue is a conflict within the terminal; Greyhound is giving our TA trouble. If a "dog" is pulling out at the same time as transit buses, they honk the horn and wave their fists at our drivers. In fact, some have tried to start shouting matches with TA staff. <<<
Is this terminal designed in such a manner that both buses are trying to back into the same space at the same time? That sounds inherently dangerous, and there should be some kind of traffic cop on the ground directing the buses. In every bus terminal that I have seen in which buses have to back into the stream of traffic from a boarding gate, once a bus is in motion backward, a bus moving forward will stop to allow the backing bus to enter the stream of traffic.
Tom
Actually, no; there is no heavy reversing involved, save for the Greydogs backing out to pull through. And there is on-site staff that helps direct all bus traffic within the terminal.
Also, I just found out that Greyhound is actually renting their space from our TA, so they have no reason to give our transit drivers hell at all. They can kick Greyhound out if they wanted to, so they really need to back off.
-F.
Let me preface this by saying that I am not "anti" low-floor; I just don't think that they're the cure-all design that will eradicate standard-floor buses.
The transit system I drive for, we have Flxibles (standard-floor, of course) and Gillig low floors. A few other important things to know: we charge no fare to anyone nor do we require to see IDs, we always open both doors for boarding and deboarding, we carry a lot of people who don't otherwise use transit, and we often carry extremely heavy loads.
Supposedly, one of the great benefits of low-floor buses is faster loading for everyone. In fact, I have noticed quite the opposite. Because there are no steps at the doors, people have the tendency not to move in and make room for others; instead they just kind of step in leisurely and linger near the door. By the time everyone slips past what little room is left near the doors, the dwell time has already increased significantly.
Conversely, if I pull up to 50 waiting riders in a Flxible, I open the doors and they jump right on - quick. When the doors open and they see steps, they know that they have to step off the curb, up the steps, and find a place to sit or stand. Unless the bus has a crush standing load, no one ever thinks to stand in the rear stepwell. In a way, the steps kind of "suck them in" whereas the flat, seatless area near the rear door of an LF is a very tempting place to stand.
Even if my observation is complete nonsense, I know for a fact that our standard-floor Flxibles, for whatever reason, swallow huge loads a lot faster than our low-floors.
I encourage any input on this matter...
i'm from las vegas nevada, we have low floor flyers, and n.a.b.i.'s, as well as many types of regular floor busses, i think it doesn't matter, out here anyway, everyone seems to want to stand near the doorways......
I agree. I drive a NFI D40LF all the time....and people do EXACTLY as you say.
When I have an RTS they move their asses in the bus quickly.
[Supposedly, one of the great benefits of low-floor buses is faster loading for everyone. In fact, I have noticed quite the opposite. Because there are no steps at the doors, people have the tendency not to move in and make room for others; instead they just kind of step in leisurely and linger near the door. By the time everyone slips past what little room is left near the doors, the dwell time has already increased significantly.]
Sounds to me like the problem is with the riders of low-floor buses, not the low-floor buses themselves. Unfortunately, it is more difficult to correct problems with riders than problems with equipment!
To me, it does not matter whether the bus is a low floor or a high floor. Well, it does, but a little bit. The key is the riders: in most parts of NYC, they get on, and huddle near the front even if there's a crush, probably out of a (sometimes justified) fear of the back. It gets to the point that the benefits of having buses with 20% extra capacity are negated. This being the case, even if there is a B/O operating the back doors, there would still be a problem.
My view of the low floor situation is somewhat better than earlier this year. On a trip to Geneva, Switzerland this past summer, I notice that the city's bus system is almost exclusivly low-floors, even the artics (the execption being the trackless trams). Now, comparisons are unfair, since Geneva and NYC are about as different and far apart as the distance between the two cities. Yet, the rush hour there is about as hectic, and yet the buses were loading fine. But then again, this could be attributed to the fact that Geneva's bus system uses the "honor system" of ticket validation, that their artics have FOUR doors for access, and the communters are more patient when queuing up for boarding.
>>> The key is the riders: in most parts of NYC, they get on, and huddle near the front <<<
That's not just NYC. It seems to be the same in every big city in the U.S. I was riding on an RTS in Los Angeles, sitting on the first forward facing left hand aisle seat. The bus had been taking on passengers at each stop (and discharging them also) but was now crush loaded to the limit line, and I had someone leaning over me.
The B/O kept telling people to move to the back but there was no movement, and I began to wonder if the B/O did not realize he had a completely full bus. Finally, the person who was leaning over me moved, so I could swivel in my seat and look back. There were only about five people standing in the bus farther back than the seat I was in. Apparently the people sitting on the seats over the front wheels all had others traveling with them who insisted on remaining directly in front of where they were sitting.
I do understand the reluctance of occasional riders to move to the back of the bus though. When you are going to a destination you are unfamiliar with, you want to look through the windshield to see each cross street so you know when you are getting close to your destination. If and when truly effective announcements of upcoming stops become commonplace, this might ease off a little.
Tom
i'm beginning to see on the Flyers here in Philly, that people who stand on these buses go ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO FURTHER beyond the rear door, they will NOT step up, and stand in the rear area behind the exit door, making the bus look more crowded. This exacerbates the already intolerable custom of SEPTA riders of crowding the front half of the buses. The only time you did not see this was when SEPTA had RTS's, because the rear door was placed far back in the bus. They occasionally do this (crowd the front half) on the artics as well, despite all of the space in the second module.
Most of the equipment here in Albany is low floor, and I've noticed people do generally move to the back of the bus. But I've found that quite often, people do not like to stand on the ramp on the back of the Nova LFS. So they stand in the rear doorway.
i'm about to go catch a c.a.t. bus here in vegas, i'm at a library right now.... cya later
Uhhhh, What was the point of this post??
-AcelaExpress2005
>>i'm about to go catch a c.a.t. bus here in vegas, i'm at a library right now.... cya later<<
He lost all his money playing the slots, but had to rob the librarian for busfare so he could ride home. What else could it be ?
Bill "Newkirk"
i don't actually gamble, i go to gambler's anonymous out here. i have almost 5 years in the program. i last gambled 1/22/98...... 1/23/03 god be willing will be 5 years without a bet......
Which library? Which route did you take, and what was the bus number?
I noticed that the B13 is going to do some detours because of road construction. The Cooper Av. and Gates Av. portion will be affected by this. Right now, Gates Av. looks like a piece of shit(between Forest Av. and Wyckoff Av.). Its so bad that if any bus tries to zoom through Gates it will end up in bad shape. And its been like this for two months.
And not too long ago I noticed Lefferts Blvd.(Q10) had to deal with something similar.
If anyone else notices any part of a bus route that is having road construction, post where it is(and any detours that might occur). And tell me if it gives the service(or the bus itself) any problems.
I don't know why the city is wasting its money on some of this road construction. Cooper Av. doesn't even need it!!! They should've left it the way it was. They should look at the places that really need it, like Flushing Av.. I just hope my B13 won't like this for a long period of time.
-
B13- RTS #9158(BuMp, bUmP, BuMp, aLoNg GaTeS Av.)
During the fifties and into the early sixties these was a bus company based in Highland Falls NY that ran local service between Bear Mountain and Newburgh along US 9W. The buses were painted a rather bright yellow with a black stripe. They did not provide local bus service within Newburgh itself as that was done by the Newburgh-Beacon Bus Company which incidentily still operates. The Storm King Stage Lines was absorbed by the Mohawk Coach Lines about 1962 and they in turn ceased operations sometime in the late 60's when International took over. I may be a little off on these dates as I was very young at the time. The former Storm King Garage still exists in the village of Highland Falls though I believe that it no longer houses buses. If anyone remeber this company I would like to hear from them.
Thanks,
Larry,RedbirdR33
where are the new artic? When will they become to New York
LOL, "when will they become to New York", LOL, LOL, LOL.
They're at the factory, being built. They'll be here when they exist.
David
i dont know when they will become to ny but they should arrive soon.
G1Ravage feels that the Artic of which you have mentioned is in the coming to be of existing soon as it is being built. 2002-2003 is a good approximation date. Ride them we must!
Over on SubTalk there's a thread going on about the LIRR conductor who skimmed off the top when selling tickets on trains.
So, since this is BusTalk, that reminds me of a true story......
This reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me recently. Many years ago, probably the 50's, a Queens bus driver working for a private company was pocketing some fares.
Management became suspicious when the fares he collected was less than the number of passengers boarding his bus. The farebox wasn't tampered with, and the fares recorded matched the money he brought in. Still, managment was very suspicious. This was going on almost daily. They even had a company spotter board his bus, pay the fare and sit nearby and watch his every move. He did everything every bus driver did and wasn't seen pocketing any farebox revenue.
NOW HERE COMES THE JUICY PART !
The company had a spotter watching when his bus came to the end of the run out in the sticks and weeds of southern Queens. The driver was met by his wife who parked the car near the bus. The driver had an almost identical farebox of his own. He exchanged fareboxes and did one round trip and pocketed that money. When he came back the sticks, his wife would exchange his farebox for the company farebox.
The spotter saw all this and he was caught in the act. The company approached him and told him to come clean or face charges. He spilled the beans, resigned and his career was over. Not sure what happened to his fare box and if he was forced to repay. This driver was a total disgrace to Ralph Kramden !!
Bill "Newkirk"
This story has been related to EVERY bus company I have ever heard of. I'm begining to think it belongs at http://www.urbanlegends.com
The "ending" as I've heard it before is that the driver has HIS farebox in the bus and got really sick and had to be relieved en route and had no way of changing the farebox and that's how he got caught.
I heard it from SCRTD drivers in Los Angeles, I've heard it from Muni drivers in San Francisco, and I've heard it from acousin who used to drive for MBTA in the 1960's too. While it does sound very convincing -- and yes, just may have happened SOMEWHEREI think it's just one of those bus garage legends.
While it does sound very convincing -- and yes, just may have happened SOMEWHEREI think it's just one of those bus garage legends.
Anyone can get an old Johnson Farebox by now.
I knew someone who had one 40 years ago. He had it on a pole stand at home, and powered it with a 12-volt toy train transfomer!!
I'm only 35, couldn't be me. BTW, most toy train transformers didn't do it for me, I'm using one similiar to Radio Shack's with 2.5 amp output. My old NYCTA box kept tripping out the train power. Mark W set me up with a rebuilder in Boston and his is working great.
And I've got 3 of them, two 12 volt and one 32 volt. A 4th box, from Newark went to BSM's farebox shop for parts.
Now....yes! As I mentioend in another post, I knew someone who had one back int he 60's.
As for the story about the farebox switching, I've been driving buses for 29 years, and I think I've been hearing that story for 28 of those years.....
Great story!
We had one ingenious bus operator who had a similar scam, yet much simpler. Instead of having people deposit the fare into the farebox, he taped it closed, placed an "OUT OF ORDER" sign over it, and proceeded to collect fares into a small brown paper bag intended for use to collect received transfers. He kept the bag in the "Take One" box adjacent to the farebox, and was brazen enough to allow customers to deposit dollar bills!
This operator, who was a rookie on the Q-88 a few years ago was fired and charged with grand larceny after customers began questioning the practice.... every Sunday.
LOL
>>> he taped it closed, placed an "OUT OF ORDER" sign over it, and proceeded to collect fares into a small brown paper bag <<<
I have noticed that whenever the fare box is out of order locally, the B/O refuses to accept any money from passengers boarding. Those who would pay with a cash fare get to ride free. It makes me feel like I am losing something when I board with a monthly pass.
Tom
It's not that the bus operator refuses to collect money. He is under orders not to collect money. It's really not a big lose for transit if one farebox does not work because the people pay the full fare on the next bus, verus getting a free transfer. The only people who benefit are the one's that don't need any transfer.
BIG AL
Saw this late on TV last night. A scene opens at a bus station; outside, two Grey Line MC-9s are parked for loading. This program was from around 1976, IIRC. Lots of neat stuff there.
Anyone seen some good buses on the tube lately?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Uh, Fred....that is GRAY Line. And those were NOT MC-9's if the program was in 1976 -- the MC-9 did not start being produced until October, 1978.
Whoops...my bad, I meant Gray Line. It was a quick shot; perhaps they could have been MC-7s? The window areas were all blacked out so it was a bit hard to tell. Thanks!
-F.
....Or even MC-8's.
Wayne
Wayne,
You gotta dump Netscape 7. It's got a major bug that holds things. The thread title was Buses on TV: Grey Line in Blue Knight, but your reply retitled the thread Re: E/F loop in Jamaica, which was a thread on Subtalk that you also replied to. 7 is holding that title.
Go back to the prior version if you still have it.
Yes, I realized it right after I posted the message. I'll probably reload my earlier version today.
Wayne
I'm really curious about this.the only route I remember was the S7. And maybe the S2 im not sure.love9400? do you remember? or anyone else for that matter?
I have to get my old Bus map before the changes but yes the S 7 was is now part of the S53 and S60. I Remember that route use to go by the old college of SI campus. If I recall the numbers went as far as S 113
wow thats cool.not only do i wanna know what the old route numbers were,but specifically I wanna know what routes were the S51 and S52 previously.I remember about 12 years ago my mom took me to some amusement park on Sand Lane in South Beach and barely remember taking an S7 or S2.I went by that area yesterday for the first time in said 12 years,that park isnt there anymore but damn it sure felt wonderful being around there again.
The last time anyone had seen that amusement park is in the First Episode of the First Season of the Sopranos. Watch it on DVD - you'll see it clearly.
What time were you on the Island Friday? I was out there myself since I had several hours between the end of my [only] class and bad practice, I went into the city and took the X10 out to Narrows Rd/Richmond Rd, the 74 down to Tottenville, the 78 back up (making the mistake of boarding the exact bus that would pick up students from every damn school on Hylan Bl) then exchanged at Hylan/New Dorp La to the X1 back to Manhattan (I was going to get the 79 into Brooklyn and take the subway but my time was running short).
I'd like to ride the S56 sometime since it goes through my initial stomping ground - Foster Rd & Ramona Av, right near where I used to live till I was 4. I wonder how much that area has changed since the mid-late 1980's???
well people actually live there now. by the way what is bad practice?
I meant band practice.
S40-S1
S42-S101
S44-S102
S46-S3
S48-S107
S51-S2
S52-S104
S53-S7
S54-S110
S55/56-S115
S57-Part of S106
S59-S4
S60-S6Shuttle
S61-Part of S111
S62-S112
S66-S6
S67-S106
S72-S109(Discontinued June 1992)
S74-S113
S76-S117
S78-S103(With two branches-one from St.George to Tottenville & the other from St.George to SI Mall,now the S79)
That's your information.
What was the S 72/ S 109?
B49: Its interesting that you bring up the R 109 (Note the R prefix instead of the S) This route appears on the 1969 Brooklyn/Staten Island Bus Map as running between Saint George Terminal and Paterson Road via Richmond Road and Midland Avenue and yet does not appear on the route index for that map.
The 1974 map gives a fuller description. It has the route running between Saint George Terminat Ramp B and Midland Avenue-Seaside Boulevard M-F from 6am-7pm (approx), no weekend service.
The last map that I have showing this route is the 1990 one.
A new map issued April 15,1990 shows the S-109 redesignated as the S-72 and running over the same route with some variation in service. The route would still operate M-F 6am-6pm between Saint Geroge
Terminal Ramp B and Father Capodanno Boulevard with evening serivce from 6pm-10pm between Saint George and Clove Road-Richmond.
Larry,RedbirdR33
WOW! just what I wanted to know! thanks alot! but now...i got another question....why did the TA change the route numbers for? Was there any special reason for it?
NYCT wanted to make travel in Staten Island less confusing by rearranging route numbers by area (North Shore, South Shore, etc.). Whether that was accomplished is a matter for debate, but that was the idea.
David
Well to be honest, the renumbering serve its purpose. Was it neccessary? Nope. To me the bright side was you automatically know the difference between the local and limited busses by their series (i.e. 90's series and now the 80's series are included)
My recollection (from the 1960's) is that R meant Richmond, as I believe it was then Richmond County and the Borough of Richmond. If my memory is correct, some routes were numbered R-1, R-2 (that, is low numbers), and a few were in the R-101+ sequence. In Manhattan, when Surface buses replaced TARS streetcars, the Surface lines were given routes from M-100 up, I thought, because it was different from the earlier bus franchises with their duplicative route numbers. Anyhow, without any proof, I surmised that the Staten Island bus numbering system (some low numbers, some 100+) were the result of two or more predecessor companies before the Board of Transportation took over the buses. I consider the new numbers (in two-digit regional families) a good improvement.
I LIVED ON SI BACK IN THE LATE 50'S, EARLY 60'S. I BUS ROUTES ON STATEN ISLAND BACK THEN WERE:
R-1 RICMOND TERRACE
R-2 BAY STREET
R-3 CASTLETON AVENUE
R-4 RICHMOND AVENUE
R-5 JERSEY STREET
R-6 VICTORY BLVD
R-101 BRIGHTON AVENUE
R-102 HENDERSON AVENUE
R-103 HYLAN BLVD
R-104 TOMPKINS AVENUE
R-105 CLOVE ROAD
R-106 WATCHOGUE ROAD
R-107 FOREST AVENUE
R-108 RICHMOND ROAD
R-109 VAN DUZER STREET
R-110 MANOR ROAD
R-111 BRADLEY AVENUE
R-112 VICTORY BLVD
R-113 ARTHUR KILL ROAD
R-114 RICHMOND AVENUE
R-115 ARDEN AVENUE
R-116 ROSSVILLE ROAD
R-117 NEW DORP LANE
R-118 GUYON AVENUE.......DISBANDED SOMETIME AROUND 1960
ALSO
THE GRYMES HILL SHUTTLE DID NOT HAVE A NUMBER DESIGNATION AND WAS ONLY KNOWN AS "SHUTTLE".
As far as my memory goes:
S40: S1
S42: S101
S44: S102
S46: S3
S48: S107
S51: S2
S53: S7
S54: S110 plus Giffords Lane leg of S4
S55/56: S115 (South Richmond Loop; did not go to S.I. Mall)
S57: the non-Victory Blvd. parts of S106 and S111
S59: S4 (without Giffords Lane leg)
S60: S6S
S61: S111, rerouted to Staten Island Mall
S62: S112
S66: S6
S67: S106
S72: S109 (later discontinued)
S74: S113
S76: S117
S78: S103 Tottemville branch
S79: S103 S.I. Mall branch
Any information is greatly appreciated.
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The B68 to coney island was an excellent move. I think it works better on Stillwell ave. Who ever move great move, But there should be more buses coming to Coney Island since there is only one train to coney island now. The b67 should continue to coney island and take out that silly f shuttle bus. It's a waste of UP buses!! Until 2003 there wasting UP buses.
1. Extending the B67 would involve a section of route along McDonald Avenue (Cortelyou Road to Avenue X) that is not covered now by any buses and doesn't need to be. It would also play havoc with the B67's reliability -- longer routes tend to become unwieldy.
2. The F Shuttle is scheduled to operate at the rate of one bus per trip, which is far greater than the frequency of the B67 at most, if not all, times of the day. Either the B67 wouldn't be nearly enough to service the demand, or B67 frequency would have to be increased to a point that is completely unneeded north of Avenue X.
David
b50 trolley service ran along mcdonald ave to coney island until about 1956. it terminated at what then became the old coney island depot which was serviced by gm 4000 series buses. feltmans was still open in those days and for 5 cents you could relive yourself on surf ave.
I know all about the #50 trolley route. I considered mentioning it but didn't want to go there. My point is, it's now 2002 and there's no need for a bus route along the portion of McDonald Avenue that doesn't have one.
David
I have to agree the F shuttle is a big waste and a route should cover it. However extending the B 67 to Coney Island would be a good idea especially with all the detours going on the weekends with the F line. The B 67 however base on its frequency, it does not satisfy the needs to run to Coney Island. In fact it would probably be even worse. But the idea of having bus service along McDonald Av has pondered my mine for awhile. And the chances of this route surviving would be more like 40%. Unless it can help bussiness/community of Boro Park and community of Gravesand.
My alternative idea was using the B 74 and extend it to Ave X but then again that is like using F shuttle to Seagate.
While I agree thathe B68 to CI was a good move(I could of thought of that a long time ago), sending it up Neptune Av IMO was VERY DUMB. I rode it a couple of times from Stillwell & I observed 2 things:
1.When I rode it (during the rush hour), there were VERY FEW people who actually get on the Neptune Av portion.
2.There was a whole lot of confusion about getting to the closed stations(it looked like those people never rode the 68 before).
If I had my way, this is what I would have done:
1.I would have left the route how it was before 9/8 & simply extend it via Surf Av
2.I would create a rush hour(or all day weekdays depending on crowds in the midday) Limited stop service(if there is enough buses). It would run between Church Av & Neptune Av or the Brighton Beach Station [all stops north of Church Av & all stops west of B.B station.]
BTW, they came out with a F shuttle bus timetable (every 4 min. rush hours, 8 min middays, evenings & weekends & 20 min late nights)
Comments,criticism,compliments Holla back!
whatever happen to the four artic that ran on the M15 line? I miss then. That was the only bright spot on the m15 line. This line is like a park of wolf. The m15 never on time and when it's does come it like 6 to 7 of them at a time and the all follow each other like a class of students!
If you think it's bad now, wait till you see artics on lines like the M15, M101/102/103. Because you will have longer dwell time at bus stops, especially at the busier ones where passengers come and come and come. With their higher passenger capacity, they will never get out of the bus stop!
I rode a D60HF on the M102 back in August and it was not all that bad. No local buses passed us (limiteds and M98s do not count).
I think the artic would be better on the m15, m101, m102 and the m103 this buses are alway crowded and this long buses with help 1,2,3 and lexington av
Can someone explain why the following questions: I just want to know the history behind these routes since it was already mention about the B 67.
1. Why was the B 67 and B 69 switch terminals and why not the B 75 since the all end at same downtown terminal? I notice in my old bus maps and also in an old B 35 map that was used on the Guide - a rides up to I believe 2000. It showed that the B 69 used terminate at Corteleyou Rd and that the B 67 terminated at Bishop Ford High School (10 Av/19 St).
2. Why does the B 69/ B 75 terminate at an odd spot in Park Slope? Was it intentially terminated there to serve Bishop Ford HS (19 St/9 - 10 Av), and the elemenatary school on (7 Av/ 19 St)? It is funny how the B 75 last stop is at 8av/ 20 St and it's first stop to downtown is at Prospect Park W (9 Av)/ 18 - 19 Sts. and the B 69 terminates/ and starts at 19 St/ 9 Av.
3 Can the B 75 could be better off terminating at Corteleyou Road or New Uterect Ave/ Ft. Hamilton Pkwy (M/W) Station?
4.Is there anyway to improve the B 69? Most B 69 riders coming from Park Slope get off at Grand Army Plaza during peak rush hours or middays. There is little ridership along Vanderbilt Av (especially on weekends).
1- B67 to Cortelyou gives Kensington residents bus access to Park Slope's 7th Avenue commercial district. Made more sense than running the little-used B69 to Cortelyou.
2- That's where some trolleys terminated years ago. There was a large car barn there.
What are the difference between Balios and Twin Vision LED's are? I tried to ask about it at another certain forums, but I got nowhere.
The difference is the font of the letters. The Balios signs resemble Arial, as seen in www.geocities.com/otpdcpics2/dcorion44.jpg. An example of a TwinVision LED would be www.geocities.com/otprideonpics/roorion22.jpg.
The sign shown in www.geocities.com/otpdcpics2/dcorion44.jpg is a Luminator Horizon all-LED sign, not a Balios sign.
Yeah, that is a Luminator; we have those on our 2001 Gilligs, and that looks exactly like the signs on ours. Previous bus orders had a blue sign with white flip dots, which matches the paint scheme but is horribly unreadable. Black with orange LEDs is MUCH better looking.
Also, our new Thomas SLFs have black signs with bright green LEDs; not sure of the sign manufacturer, but they are good-looking and easy to read as well.
-F.
I was told otherwise...
For some reason, the Twin Optics sign looks more like Arial to me than the Balios..it's wider and more true to the font.
-F.
Balious signs are usually defective in some way, while twinVision signs are bright have a smaller front display and can stack on the side and rear sign. Luminator Horizons cant stack at all, not even on the front and im not sure about the Balious.
4309's sign does not stack. I have seen this bus quite a few times since it moved up to Western on the E2, E3, even 30 routes, and 42, and it never stacks.
The Ride-On buses have twin visions since they stack often (making it somewhat hard to read some of the readings)
I like the LED signs on 5230-5249 & 5106-5124, they look much brighter and looks better.
-AcelaExpress2005
If I am correct the telling difference is that the Balios destination signs scroll the terminus and Twin Vision signs flip like the other destinations signs.
Balios signs have like 50 different options for message changing visual effects. I suppose the default is a scroll-less, uneventful, all-in-one change from one message to the other. Here in Detroit, DDOT has some of their Balios readings programmed with cute little effects. For instance, on the "16 DEXTER / DOWNTOWN" reading, there's "16 DEXTER" and then "DOWNTOWN" drops in from above; it almost looks like it should be accompanied by a "cha-ching" sound effect. The Balios signs have been known to show some other interesting effects, too.
These effects are eye-catching and not nearly as cheesy or distracting as those one-line electronic scrolling message boards that I associate with middle-school cafeterias and airport game rooms.
(note: I wish the Balios signs were better made. They look awesome when they work, but of 163 newer DDOT buses so equipped, it seems like at least half of them are failing...)
I visit 100 street depot on Saturday and it look almost finish. I'm looking forward to the changes when the depot opens. From the buses going in there to the closing of the other depots and the changing of the route from depots.
The M5 has been moved around over the years from different street to different depot.
How many different depot has the m5 been in?
The m5 uses to turn off Riverside drive on what street to Broadway?
I remember three shops, Kingsbridge, Amsterdam and Manhattanville.
I'm not sure, but I think it uses 72nd Street.
[How many different depots has the m5 been in?]
132nd Street for the longest time, then Kingsbridge, then Amsterdam (with three pieces assigned to M6 runs at Hudson), then Manhattanville.
- - - - -
[The M5 uses to turn off Riverside drive on what street to Broadway?]
The M5 has TWO transitions between Riverside Drive and Broadway: 72nd Street and 135th Street.
Aside #1: During the 1980's, while the Riverside Drive viaduct over 125th Street was being repaired, the M5 used 120th Street for the uptown transition. After the work was completed, Transit tried unsuccessfully to make the detour permanent.
Aside #2: For years there was an "M5-via-19" branch, which basically was the Fifth Avenue Coach Company's #19 route. It stayed on Riverside Drive to 157th Street, then jogged over to Broadway and ended. During the viaduct reconstruction, it followed the M5's detour routing to Broadway & 135th, then returned to Riverside at 135th and then to Broadway at 157th, for a total of FOUR transitions between Riverside and Broadway.
I don't think that the "M5-via-19" branch has run for many years. When 5th Ave. Coach Co. operated the #19 route it was only a few AM and PM peak trips - the #5 covered virtually all Riverside Drive trips.
And another historical footnote - the M5 was the last 5th Ave. Coach route to use the Queen Mary double deckers (April 1953).
You're right - the "M5-via-19 branch" ended in the late 1980's. The trips, hewever (4 morning and 4 evening), were not killed, just redirected along the regular route.
Before the Riverside Drive reconstruction, didn't the M4 also run via Riverside? Its detour via Broadway was made permanent.
[Before the Riverside Drive reconstruction, didn't the M4 also run via Riverside?]
Yup, between 110th and 135th Streets. When the viaduct donstruction began, it was decided to run the M4 on Broadway all the way to/from 110th, rather than jogging over to Riverside at 120th and then back at 110th.
The detour turned out to work better than the official route, and thus was made permanent.
Saw another Gray Line today on Comedy Central. In a Conan O'Brien rerun from earlier this year, Samuel L. Jackson is the guest, and Conan is spoofing "Shaft", dressed as a full-out pimp with a big fur coat, a huge hat, and pulls out a leopard-skin flip phone as he walks out toward the street. And if that's not enough, he climbs into the back of a fur-covered Town Car! Meanwhile, a GLT double decker rolls by full of sightseers.
Just curious: what kind of buses are those, and on a side note, was "Changing Lanes" any good?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
I saw this one last night; a man stands in the middle of the street and gets run over by a speeding Fishbowl, then gets back up as a cyborg, metal eye and all. The bus was mostly blue; for those who have seen the commercial, was this an ex-NYCTA?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
This afternoon, I jsut get out of the African American Day Parade, and as I'm walking along 140th street, I see MSBA #648 parked @ the M10 bus stop on Douglass.
Anyone have any idea how it got to this neck of the woods?
Whoa!!
Probably used it to transport some participating MTA workers.
no suprise to me.I once saw two MTA buses in Westchester County in the morning while riding the 1W bus to White Plains on my way to Jefferson Valley Mall.Then I wondered what the hell were they doing out there? That was quite the suprise
[...while riding the 1W bus to White Plains on my way to Jefferson Valley Mall.]
Presumably you switched in White Plains to line 12 - which takes about two hours to get to Jefferson Valley, in addition to your ride on the 1W. Why put yourself through such an exhausting journey? Isn't there an easier way to get to JV (such as Metro-North to a bus)? Aren't there any good malls closer to where the V train and M20 bus run?
Well, maybe that was the whole point - take a nice excursion out to someplace that you don't normally go.
What's wrong with that?
I do it whenever I get the chance. I don't do it nearly as often as I used to simply because I don't have nearly as much free time as I used to.
yep,your so right about that.I like to go places I've never been too before.But thats mostly mall trips.Malls bring some kinda excitement to me for some reason.I know it seems crazy but what can I say? I have a bunch of NJ mall trips I wanna get through plus go to Palisades Center Mall and Nanuet Mall.I'm looking forward to that trip.....whenever i have enough money to do it.I've never been on a Red&Tan Line bus before.by the way,I know that it'll cost me $5.85 to take the 20 from the PA-Palisades Center Mall and $5.25 on the 11C from Nanuet Mall-GWB.But how much does it go to simply travel between both malls on the 20? Anyone know?
yep,your so right about that.I like to go places I've never been too before.But thats mostly mall trips.Malls bring some kinda excitement to me for some reason.I know it seems crazy but what can I say? I have a bunch of NJ mall trips I wanna get through plus go to Palisades Center Mall and Nanuet Mall.I'm looking forward to that trip.....whenever i have enough money to do it.I've never been on a Red&Tan Line bus before.by the way,I know that it'll cost me $5.85 to take the 20 from the PA-Palisades Center Mall and $5.25 on the 11C from Nanuet Mall-GWB.But how much does it cost go to simply travel between both malls on the 20? Anyone know?
Between Nanuet and Palisades should be $.90 or $1 (I know it was $.90 at some point not too long ago, but they may have raised it).
Also, in addition to the 20, you can use the TOR #59, though it takes a bit longer (gets off Route 59 for little bit, while the 20 goes straight down Rt 59).
In any case, I'm sure you'll love the Palisades.
I also like to visit malls in the area. One I'd really like to visit but haven't had a chance to is Quakerbridge, in Lawrence Twp. To get there, take the NEC to Princeton Jct, then the #605 bus.
Bridgewater is pretty cool to if you've never been (NJT #114 from PABT).
And you mentioned you visited Garden State Plaza - next time you come out here, swing into Borders and see if you can find me .... ;-) (hint; my nametag has a little sign that is bus-related)
Also, I normally only work Monday evening, Tuesday and Wednesday and Saturday during the day (midday to late evening).
We'll see.Once I go to the mall,I dont make a return trip to the same mall untill at least 7 or 8 months later.
I'll have to try Palasades center too. You think $6 each way is bad? The 139 (bus to Freehold Raceway mall) is over $10 each way.
$6 is as much as I'll pay for a busride, so Freehold is gonna have to wait!
There's a mall in Bridgewater? I never knew that.Well chulk up an extra NJ mall trip.I was thinking along the lines of the woodbridge Center Mall (#62 from Newark) and two more in which I take the 62 to Woodbridge and take the 810 to one mall and the 815 to the other.
62-Woodbridge Center Mall
810-Menlo Park Mall
815-Mid-State Mall.
www.bridgewatercommons.com
It's really nice, I'm sure you'd like it.
How is Mid-State Mall? I never been there.
Menlo Park is nice, and Woodbridge I haven't been to in a long time.
Ever been to Jersey Gardens?
I never been to Mid-State before.And I do have a planned trip to Jersey Gardens Mall if you wish to come with me.Although all my trips are based on a Weekday schedule since it's better to be at malls on a weekday than a weekend.Get's way to crowded for your tastes.
Jersey Gardens is great - it's an outlet mall, but they have some other nice stores also and inside is really neat with carpeted floors and a jungle motif throughout.
I'd like to join you, tell me when and I'll see what I can do.
You going to the Hoboken Festival?
uh uh. No Hoboken Festival for me.I only have $16 and i dont wanna spend too much of it,if any at all.I will be at Canal St this weekend raising hell in the subway.And telling you when for that Jersey Gardens Mall trip will be quite a long time from now I'll tell you that much.If only the fare didnt cost $4.35 on the 111 from PABT I'd go sooner.
I was in GSP Monday, and in Borders, around 12 noon and again around 2pm.
Too early - I didn't start till 6.
no i didnt take the 12.by the time the 1W arrived at White Plains it was 5 mins too late so I had to take the 15 to the Cortlandt Town Center and then the 16 to Jefferson Valley Mall.on the way back I did take the 12 and then the 20 but it broke down and wound up taking the 21 the rest of the way to Woodlawn.The 20 that broke down was a Neoplan Artic.I forgot the bus number.
What engine does that Neoplan use??
I have absoultely no idea.
Long Island Expy to the Midtown tunnel or Queensboro bridge. Sorry, I just couldn't resist!
I visit downtown brooklyn yesterday and I haven't been down there in years. Questions
1. Why was the B37 moved from fulton st to livingston st?
2. Why not send the B65 to sand st so many buses on Jay st now?
3. Why not send the B54 to tillary st too with the B52, B26, and B38?
4. Why is the only bus going to Furman st is that slow B25?
1. Congestion. The route with the lowest ridership was removed from Fulton Mall.
2. Probably not enough ridership demand to make extending the B65 worth doing.
3. See 2.
4. The B41 also went to Fulton Landing at one point. It was cut back several years ago due to abysmally low ridership. The B25 doesn't now carry so many people in that area that it would need help.
David
[(Question) Why was the B37 moved from fulton st to livingston st?]
[(Answer) The route with the lowest ridership was removed from Fulton Mall.]
It's ironic that buses would run better in mixed traffic (on Livingston) than in a "dedicated" busway (Fulton).
Of course, the congestion along the Fulton Mall was brought about, at least in part, by the city's aggressive NON-enforcement of traffic restrictions along Fulton. After all these years, the bus-only regulation has probably lapsed from said non-enforcement.
Quite correct. I work in the area, and the transit mall is that in name only. Most of the vehicles I see on the bus-only street are not buses! And yes, traffic (including bus traffic) flows better on Livingston Street than on Fulton Mall. I don't think I've EVER seen the bus-only rule enforced. The few remaining "no cars" signs have faded almost to the point of illegibility.
David
Well why not send that b71 downtown brooklyn too. It's has no rider where it is now.
That would be throwing good money after bad.
David
David,
The B-37 was moved from Fulton Street to Livingston Street to relieve congestion on Flatbush Avenue. Prior to the change you had the B-41,B-45 and B-67 making a left from Flatbush to Livingston Street which has a left tune arrow. The B-37 was the only bus making a turn on Fulton Street which does not have an arrow.
The B-41 did not discontinue service to Furman Street due to low ridership. If anything it was to improve service reliability on the B-41 which then had Limited and Local Stop service between 2 northbound and 2 southbound terminals and it was confusing with some buses making Limited and some all stop. If anything the service change cost the TA money because it had to extend the service span on the B-25 to 24 hours on Sunday. Prior to the change the B-25 only operated between approx 8AM and 7PM
Thank You
Barry is incorrect about the reasoning behind moving the B37. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Flatbush Avenue and everything to do with Fulton Street.
He's also incorrect about the reasoning behind the discontinuance of B41 service to Fulton Landing, although he is correct in stating that it simplified the service pattern. Additionally, the Sunday "hawk" on the B25 was a long time coming and didn't cost very much to implement.
Perhaps if Barry had stayed with NYCT in the 1990s, when these changes were made, he would have been privy to the reasons. I was there when the changes happened and had some involvement in their implementation.
David
Today, went from Coney Island to NYC. At Stillwell, I got on 4772 to Ave X. The driver was funny as hell. When loading, he says over the outside PA "Come one, come all, F Shuttle to Ave X. Going Going, Going, Gone" - when we pulled out. We got to the end of the block, and made the right when 2 people knocked on the door, but the driver wouldn't let them on. He picked up the PA and started to sing. He sang "Knock, knock, knocking on my door - can't let you board - go down the block and try once more." something like that - the 2 ladys looked pissed and I think they mouthed @SSHOLE.
The got on the train and rode it to Church Ave - boarded the bus, I was on Bus 8678 out of JG. Let me tell you that the EXPRESS bus promised on the flyers was complete BULLSHIT. The didn't run any expresses. There were at least 100+ runs.
Here are the buses I saw: 7531,7538,4764,9570,8678,9048,8917,8216,8544,8213,8824,4768,9108,8187,9433,8421,9087,8933,8122,8088,5233,8522,8618,9207,8538,8407,7551,8824,9575,7545,5248, and the LONE ORION I SAW #200. There were many more, but couldn't catch them all. Also, after Caroll Street, the route was so backed up that I wound up disembarking and walking when the bus reached Bergen Street. We were on the street for at least a 1/2 hour.
Later
You're right on the part when they promised express buses & they didn't run any(TYPICAL OF THE MTA :-\).
I went yesterday & i saw runs as high as 150 or something like that. At one point, 5 buses were packed in a row (toward Church Av) this was around 7 pm.When i went toward hoyt st, it was a real bottlenck on Smith st because of construction on Atlantic Av. I'll say we were stuck there for like 20 minutes(i shoulda walked but oh well) & there were too many buses to count but i wrote the bus #'s I saw.
Here are the buses I saw:
ENY:8120,8349,4954,9035,8927,4641,8929
FB:9402,8423,8329,7500,8088,8156,4301,8323,9419,8418,5123
UP:9102,9078,9106,4857,9110.SOFT SEATERS:9301,9305,9311,9317,9336
JG:8553,8687,8526,8547,4650,8449,8545,8522,8564,8457.Orion:583 New Flyer:837
FP:9161,9178,9140,4702,9575,4664,9605,9157,4701
126:8452,5044,5045,9225,7554,7542,9038,9188,7551,8472,9207
MCH:6005,186
MJQ:8651
MV:8764,6359,9016
GH:8085,8897
HP:9503,9522
P.S. I saw 8830 get towed away
So now there were every type of buses represented with exception of 7.
There were
GMC, TMC, NOVA RTSs
NOVA RTS Suburban
Orion V
Orion V CNG
Orion VI Hybrid
New Flyer Low Floor
The Six Not present were MCIs, GMC Suburbans (1852, 3809,3893), TMC Suburbans (4873-4888), Orion Suburbans, NFI D60 Artics, Orion VII CNG and Orion VII Hybrid.
If any of the above were there, then we could say every type of ACTIVE bus was in service on ONE route in One Day.
I was talking about the express shuttle buses*
What!? Gun Hill's buses run on the "F" shuttle? Damn, thats a far distance to travel. Castleton buses would have an easier time getting to the (F) shuttle than GH buses. I might take the (F) shuttle just to get GH's 9229-9249. I'm glad Kingsbridge didn't bring their buses to the (F) shuttle.
BTW, does this shuttle only run on weekends?
Please, this weekend only due to a major Gereral Order. The capital budget took a real beating with all those shuttle buses! I got into the act too as I spent my afternoon pulling F trains out of the relay tracks.
ugh,some people are too dumb.if they missed the bus thats too damn bad,they should go wait at the bus stop for the next one instead of running after the one they missed then cursing at the driver when he/she doesnt let them on.the drivers are only doing their jobs.Once they leave a stop they arent supposed to open up for anyone yet some do it out of the goodness of their hearts.I saw the same thing happen when I was in SI on Friday at St.George. I was on a S52 going to Sand Lane and several buses were leaving at once and some dick had the nerve to stand on the street wanting to get on an S 78 I think it was then cursed the driver when he didnt let the guy on.Some people have gotta develop some common sense,how the hell do you expect a driver to let you on away from the bus stop AND with several buses around,in front or behind him.that's absoultely crazy.This happened during the evening rush by the way.
I just found a bus company called Bestway Coach Express which has $22 one way ($40 Round Trip) to PABT, Chinatown, and Flushing from SUNY Albany. They also have service to SUNY Binghamton. The equipment used appears to be Van Hools (according to the picture on the flyer). Anyway, I might be taking this company to get to NYC this coming weekend for Hoboken Festival (return trip will likely be via Amtrak), and was wondering... is this a reputable company? Has anyone here ever used or heard of this company?
BTW: The "schedule" was tear-offs from a flyer posted in our bus shelter, so I can't help but wonder about this company's financial standing...
A bus was actually out front today, so I asked a bit about the company. Yes, there will actually be a bus departing tomorrow at 1PM, 3PM, and 5PM. I can buy the tickets on the bus.
Yes, they are van hools.
Ulmer park scrapped 4770,4773 which are now gone, and also 4788,4870 have been stripped and are waiting to go where ever these tired old horses find their final resting ground.
There was a report here last week that FP 4675 and 4690 were to be scrapped. Today, I saw 4690 in back of the depot with all numbers taken off and fare box removed. Saw "4690" inside the bus.
Well, I guess these are the last years for the 4600's/4700's. Good riddens, they were never anything special when they were dumped in FP and UP. And I certainly won't miss them.
FP did get some 4700's from Flat and some 4600's from JG in 1990 when I moved to Maspeth. The were pretty good buses at 3 years old! My first ride was on a very hot humid day on 4744. Other than some problems with the rear door interlocking (they were newly installed at the time) the bus ran great and had cold a/c. To this day, 4744 remains a good bus, a workhorse. I see it quite often and have never seen it spend extended time o/s in the depot or in the maintance area.
flatbush received a few 4600`s from eny on the 8th. as one that drove the 4600`s when they were new at gleason, they are and still are better buses than any nova. the newer the nova`s the crappier they are.
I've seen 4744 on the Q55 yesterday, without the front ad. I believe 4670-4682 and 4723-4752 came to FP early, which wasn't too bad. However we did not need 4683-4722 ten years later to fill in that gap. That's what made me dislike them, they've taken over most of FP's fleet.
And before FP got rid of 4000's/4100's(originals), the 4105 used to have a neat destination sign that was bright, and it use to stand out from to others. Some of the 4100's could've lasted longer but those JG 4600's/4700's pushed them out of FP. Now we're stuck with those horrible ENY 3900's. The 4145 was much better than the 3997, and I wish it was still here.
Right now, I like the 8000's/8100's(mainly because they came early), but I don't want to see more of them come here after their 15th year(where some other depot got to enjoy them when they were newer) If any 8000's/8100's should come to FP, now would be a good time, but not in 2005.
-Jay
Those numbers for the 4600's & 4700's that came early to FP are correct. Also add 4720 to that same list, skipping 4721 and 4722.
Also I forgot to say, 4685 and 4689 never made it to FP, I've never seen those buses before. Also 4742 went to UP to become a suburban. 4692 couldn't hack it in FP, and died very quickly for the short time it spent here.
4685 & 4689 died young at UP. I think one was in a bad accident and the other burnt up.
Bus 4889 has been moved to Carlton Yard on Monday 9/23, where it awaits a trip to the scrapper.
Castleton Orion 473, which was badly damaged by an electrical fire, is the first 1995 Orion to be scrapped as it is also sitting in Carlton.
1993 Orions 120 & 122 (orig. 93020 & 93022) were already shipped to Nimco, with 133 (orig. 93033) waiting in the wings.
Mark
I just saw 133 not too long ago on SI. When did that happen?
What happened with 120?
9 years and 7 years respectively, those Orions will never last as long as an RTS.
We'll probably start scrapping most of the Orions by 2005.
Hey Mark,
As usual thanks for the update but what happened to buses #120 and #133? Were they repowered? Why are they being scrapped? I kind of figured that bus #473 would go since it has not been in service for a while!
What about CS 543? That was in a fire as well? Is that bus being repaired or will it be sent to scrap?
#547 Q32
120 was broadsided on midland av about 6 or seven years ago while on staten island. i believe auto driver was killed. nonetheless it was completely rebuilt and returned to service a year later. it was never the same with most operators complaining it wouldnt steer straight. it hasnt seen service in several years. 125 caught fire on vz brige about 4 years ago. in 2000 it too was completely rebuilt. it never saw service since. i dont know where nyct is hiding it. i had ny last breakdown with 133 when the fire light came on. this bus was also a problem. junking buses after 9years is a disgrace yet nyct still goes and buys more of these junk buses.
I agree. But that's an Onion for ya!
#5181 M42
I don't think anybody can make a good city transit bus.
Orion 125 (along with other ex-YUK's 137 and 140) is in Carlton Yard, and you are correct in that it never saw service after it was rebuilt. I forgot to mention it as being in line to be scrapped.
There are a couple ex-Castleton Orions at Carlton as well--155, 161 and 163.
Mark
Betcha the ones that work will go and join the others at MJQ or CS and QV.
Question is why are these buses going to scrap? They're only 9 years old. Are they in that bad of shape that they have to be put out of their misery? I bet it's because of the repowering. That new engine must be messing them up royally.
#105 Q32
No, if you scrool back, most are getting scrapped because of accidents or fires. Sometimes when any machine is fixed (yes a bus is a machine) it jsut isn't the same. Sometimes damage is done which cannot be repaired. The TA tried to fix them, but it jsut didn't work.
So buses #137, #140, #155, #161 and #163 are in storage or they are on their way to NIMCO?
FP is now down to 245 buses. I haven't seen 4889 since June. I'm surprised to see one of the 4800's leave FP. They're the only buses here with the 2x2 seating. In my posts, I don't talk about FP 4800's too much because I rarely see them.
Fresh Pond's fleet cannot go below 240 buses, because it wouldn't be enough to handle all of its routes. And I really don't want to see FP having a bus shortage. The 87'RTS's must stay until something newer replaces them(hopefully 9606-9618).
-Jay
Today, I received info that 4691, 4751 and 4889 are now retired in addition to 4675 and 4690 reported last week. Perhaps someone with bus division contacts can verify this. If true, and in addition to a few 4650 series being reassigned to FLAT, FP would be tight with equipment till replacements arrive.
4658 on the Q58 this morning had "TRF" written on the windshield. What does that mean? Since 4600-4800s are starting to disappear, is it any indication that 4658 won't be around much longer?
Actually, it was 'TBF' but part of the 'B' must have rubbed off. It means "to be fueled". Maintainence writes this on buses that are towed in from a breakdown and are repaired and ready for service. But since they came in on the tow truck, they were never fueled. They write that on the windshield so that the bus will not wind up directly in the yard without being fueled first. It is supposed to be taken of the windshield after fueling, but the drillers seldom remove it.
BIG AL
That's certainly what it was. Thanks!
Could it be "TBF" instead? If so, that means "to be fueled". Bus was out of wervice and must be fueled before being released by the maintance department for service. The windsield should of had this cleaned off in any event.
No wonder why the 4700s are going to scrap. I rode 4797 on the M2 Limited yesterday and that bus had no pickup whatsoever. It was
S-L-O-W. I also rode 4479 on the M3 and that had better pickup than 4797 did.
I usually see 4145 on the M2 M3 M4 or M5 along with 3474.
Go figure a 1984 RTS outlasts a 1987 RTS.
Sad but true.
#4479 M3
#4797 M2
I hope MV is taking care of the 4145, it was one of the better 4100's in FP. That bus should have stayed here, but instead we get 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997.
I guess those few 4700's in MV are the same crap as the ones that JG dumped here.
-Jay
I think 3987 was put out of its misery.
#3997 B24
No, 3987 is still alive. I've passed by Fresh Pond Depot this morning and seen it parked on its side street.
Saw 4884 running on the B39 today from the train tracks twice. I guess it was there because the wheelchair lift is reliable. It was having a hard time climbing the grade.
i hope Ulmer Park has spare buses for the ones they had to scrap.
B1-#9335-NOVABUS
4870 seems to early to scrap - if there's a problem with a repairable part, scrap and older bus or one that needs it and replace the part from the scrapping - remember 4854-4872 that UP has has more seats since they are 2x2 hard seaters.
Well, now we know that buses #4770, 4773, 4788 and 4870 are scrapped or will be scrapped....Ulmer Park will now make itself number one on the roster moves list! So, if I got this right...the Ulmer Park Bus Depot now has the following:
1987 TMC RTS-06: #4742, #4753-4769, #4771-4772, #4774-4787, #4789-4792, #4854-4855, #4857-4869 and #4871
1996 NovaBus RTS-06: #9077-9110 and #9295-9341
1997-1998 GMC RTS-04: #7511-7534
2000 MCI D4500: #2755-2804 and #2165-2209
2001 MCI D4501: #2908-2924
Yeah, they could use more buses!
you forgot 1986 converted coach 4497. saw it saturday on b6.
you forgot 1986 converted coach 4497. saw it saturday on b6.and 4873.
Thought 4873 was at Hudson Pier?
#4873 Q32
As of this afternoon (9/23/02) 4873 WAS at Hudson Pier. I saw it on the M6.
David
Thank you David. I knew I wasn't going crazy. Also add 4876 and 4879 to that list. Saw both of them back to back on the Q32 on Friday.
#4879 Q32
[Also add 4876 and 4879 to that list. Saw both of them back to back on the Q32 on Friday.]
I was on 4876 on the M14 on Saturday. Probably not the best route to use buses with express seating. The seat cushions were pretty beat up - lots of tears, etc. Yet, still much more comfortable than the standard transit seating.
Amen! I remember riding 4876 on the X64 when it was at Jamaica.
Of course, pre-MCI Era.
#4876 X64
i wish Ulmer Park would get back those #4800's that are the express variety to replace what got scrapped. By the way, what is Ulmer Park replacing the scrapped ones with?
I did a search on the title subject and could not find any mention of this so I wanted to post it.
There is a commercial for some HMO/Insurance called Health First.
It shows a woman being escorted into a subway car and being treated like royalty by the train crew and the cops.
The ironic thing is that the commercial starts out with the voice over saying, "New York, a new health plan is coming to you..."
The amusing part about it is that the scene is filmed inside of a subway car from Toronto. It is definitely not a NYC subway car. In fact, it looks like the same type of car they used when they remade "Car 54 Where Are You" in 1993 and "The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3" back in 1998.
Just a curious obseravtion.
Shouldn't this go in Subtalk?
oooooops
you're right!
my bad!
sorry!
At the APTA convention this week in Las Vegas, MCI will unveil three concept transit buses, developed with business partner Busscar of Brazil. Here's a snippet of the press release:
LAS VEGAS, NV - September 23, 2002 - In addition to unveiling the first hybrid electric commuter cruiser at a transit trade show here, Motor Coach Industries (MCI) also informed APTA EXPO 2002 attendees of its plans to develop a number of concept vehicles in cooperation with Brazilian bus manufacturer Busscar Omnibus S.A.
The concept vehicles for the transit and shuttle markets include a minibus known as the Micruss; a midsize vehicle available in both low- and high-floor configurations known tentatively as the Midi; and the Urbanuss, a 40-foot low-floor vehicle also available in articulated configurations.
Since the convention doesn't end until the 27th, pictures likely will not be shown until next week.
These are from Busscar's website, but expect minor design changes on the US/Canada model. The artic looks much better than the 40-foot.
I don't know. Styling seems a little too radical....
they wouldnt be half bad for NYC, except the doors arent big enought to handle wheelchair accesiblility.
If these are concept vehicles then things will change before final production model. The 40 footer front looks a little like the NABI low floor. If the rear door is behind the rear wheel, where would the wheel chair lift go or as another poster has said -- a door will have to be widened to be ADA compliant as well as to accomodate quick loading/unloading..
The artic front looks like a direct copy of either an RTS or the MCI 102 E or J Model. However the windshield seems to come down too low to the ground. Wonder if pebbles from vehicles in front of it won't cause an excessive amount of cracked windows. Interestingly the middle door is in front of the middle wheel while the back door is behind the rear wheel. My comment regarding door size and ADA compliance about the 40 footers is applicable to these artics also.
There doesn't appear to be any bumpers on both vehicles. Wonder if the bumpers (if there are any) would withstand Federal crash tests? Probably another needed modification to bring the buses into the US for sale.
I...don't...like...it.
Hideous. I'll take the Metro design over those any day!
-F.
If these buses will be MCI's transit entry, that might be the worst mistake they made, since the Orion introduced the Orion 2. First of all Flxible has a proven track record for quality and durabilty. Second of all they will have TAs ready to order a Metro low floor, and even the high floor and third what would happen if TAs want to order a Metro, since MCI bought the assets to Flxible and what would happen if the TAs don't buy them? I think alot of busfans would be highly p@ssed off when they see that instead of going with a proven winner, MCI might be going with a "chicken dinner"
Well Put. MCI is a great company but a disappointment at the same time.
They also took a proven coach, The METRO, and used it's chassis design to build the model we now know as the F3500. SAD USE IF YOU ASK ME!
Now if this is the coach, this Urbanass oops pardon me, Urbanuss, is thie coach currently is testing in Mexico, then I'm really gonna need to buy the Marcal Factory in Elmwood Park, NJ because I'm about to do some heavy crying and cursing!
Regard,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Let's see them test that sucker on the tough streets of NYC, Philly or Baltimore, by the looks of things those things look like they would fall apart before they were finished testing them.
Also if they had the plans for a low floor Flxible on the books, why didn't they try to put R&D money into making these buses. Do they know how many TAs would salivate at the fact they could purchase these venerable coaches, especially the fact that it was developed by Flxible.
It seems like everyone is saying the same words....New buses will fall apart as soon as they can.....
Kind of really sad that no one has faith in not only the existing transit bus manufacturers, but also new players coming into the transit bus market....
Gilligs are not bad buses; I like them okay and they serve our city well where I am from. Also, I am learning to appreciate newer designs, especially the New Flyer Invero and Thomas SLF. But I would REALLY like to see the Flx Metro back in action...I mean come on, if bell bottoms and leisure suits can make a comeback, then WHY NOT A PROVEN SLEEK DESIGN of a TRANSIT BUS that will NEVER AGE?!?
Sorry if I'm shouting. I just feel strongly on the subject.
-F.
I too would like to see the Flx Metro back in action, and even moreso the Flx NewLook. As I've mentioned previously, I think I'd rather see new Gilligs than Orion V CNG's. I feel it's best to stick with what works. GM should have never left the bus building business - had they not, the NewLook would still be produced in Canada.
This is true; it would have been very feasible to see a 2002 Fishbowl if GM Canada was still into bus production. Also, I LOVE the Flx New Look; it is my favorite bus of all time. However, the odds of seeing a new Metro are much better, and I would welcome that any time.
-F.
It's not like I don't like other buses, I do like the Thomas SLF, the Neoplan High Floor and the New Flyer 40LF. But I practically grew up watching and riding Flxibles, be it the New Look or the Metro and they are my favorites. I just think that MCI is making a possible mistake in putting transit buses on the road that are unproven in the U.S., especially when it comes to tough streets, like in New York City and Baltimore. Also, Flxible and MCI would make an impressive combination in that when TAs place bus orders, they could order the over-the-road coaches along with transits, instead of possibly having two orders for two different bus manufacturers. Remember, the Yugo was once a new automobile and look how long it last.
Very true. And that funky MCI design looks like another Yugo. I feel you on this subject; I grew up with Flx New Looks and Grumman 870s, and in my college years found a second home on Flx Metros. I really hope they get the message and return to a proven design that we all love so well.
-F.
Yeah...the F-Series MCI looks like a cheap toy. How DARE they build that on such a beautiful design! What are they smoking there anyway?
-F.
Chicken dinner would be MUCH preferable to that chopped liver crap they are showing in the photos. WE WANT A LOW FLOOR FLX METRO!!!
-F.
They should stick with the METRO design and not get fancy. A basic bus with no exotic styling is what American transit properties want.
Amen. I'll drink to that. Bartender...a dry Martini, please; I want it so dry there is sand in the glass. So dry that it will thirst for itself. SO DRY...that it resembles the think tank at MCI!
-F.
They should stick with the METRO design and not get fancy. A basic bus with no exotic styling is what American transit properties want.
On the contrary... most TAs couldn't give a bat's butt what the bus body looks like. They want to know just three things:
- how little does it cost to own (purchase and maintenance)
- can they get all their specs (equipment, powertrain, seating arrangements)
- is it reliable - will it be on the road instead of on a lift
The exterior design of the bus body is WAY down the list - if the exotic-looking bus gives them what they want, that's what they're buying.
>>> The exterior design of the bus body is WAY down the list <<<
Except for how much space is available for advertising.
Tom
Now - this is something that really puzzles me. I understand that they'd want to develop something new, but at the same time it costs loads of money in R & D costs to bring a vehicle from conception to production. Then they have to hope this new thing will perform well and actually sell well enouth to be profitable. I think they had a sure thing with the Flxible METRO and to improve on it would likely have been a win-win situation. I just long to see METRO's in production again.
Wayne
Like the RTS, this is a bus that was designed in the 70s. The technology of things like chassis, suspension, brakes, and electrical systems had avanced to the point where, if MCI or anyone else wanted to start Metro production, they would spend so myuch money making the bus "current", that they might as well start new. High-floor sales are dwindling; the RTS is dead, high-floor New Flyers are now off the books except for current orders, Gillig and NABI are now pushing threir low-floor unbits. Only Neoplan has the capacity to still build high-floor units efficiently since the low floor is so interchangeable.
As far as who actually owns the Metro... MCI bought the rights to produce and sell OEM replacement parts. They did not buy the Ohio assembly plant. The jigs are somewhere in Mexico under DINA control, which now has very few ties with MCI. Regarding the F3500, the rear subframe is a similar design, but there is nothing exclusive about it. The 870/Metro does not have a "chassis at all. The body was built as a box and placed atop front and rear sub-frames. The rear A-shaped rails end at the fuel tank where they come to a point.
The 870/Metro was a good bus for its time, but that time has passed. Asking for its return because of its past history would be like asking for New Looks again. They're gone for the same reason. I'm not going to scribe any long list of its flaws - all buses have drawbacks for their passengers, drivers, and owners. But you will see a LOT more international influence in US bus design than before. Manufacturers will turn to where transit is very successful and see what deaigns have improved service. Buses are going to resemble subway cars more than anything else - high-volume doors, less seats, more standee space - all of wehich equal to more passengers per vehicle and thus more income per vehicle. NYCT standardized on New Looks, then the RTS. Now the fleet is getting all kinds of units in. Expect the next NYCT "standard" bus to have only perimeter seating on the streetside and at the rear; the rest of the bus will be just floor space for standees.
"Expect the next NYCT "standard" bus to have only perimeter seating on the streetside and at the rear; the rest of the bus will be just floor space for standees."
Ok, I think that's just pushing it a little, the TA is already getting numerous complaints about the low-floors and the lack there of seat. Which the TA's answer was the Orion 07.501, a horrible answer, but a answer no less. Also, if the TA even decided to go back to perimeter center-facing seating, Senior Citizens would have a bitch fit, because they have gotten so spoiled to the forward-facing seats with grab rails in which they could hold on to for comfort. That is a major thing over in Jersey on the Bergen County 700 Routes that use the "Baby" Nova RTSs, there is more perimeter center-facing seats than forward facers and the Seniors don't feel safe in the center facers, and I can understand.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I definitely agree about the baby Novas, Trevor. Especially the 753 which is basically a senior citizens mall bus from Dumont, Bergenfield, and Teaneck. When those routes were first formed in 1972 as the B-routes, they were 100% New Look suburbans from Oradell.
As far as NYCT, the T6H5309A Fishbowls were all perimeter seats, so NYCT is no stranger to this layout. Maybe losing the curbside perimeter seats is a stretch, but a standee takes up less room and pays the same fare as a seated passenger, so this will likely be a business decision.
I'm not saying the MCI/Busscar units will be the end-all either. NYC's best bus could very well be the Neoplan AN445TLF... 45-foot, low floor, can be made a s a diesel-electric, three dual-stream doors that can have ramps at any of them, and certainly better looking than any Orion
as i mentioned several times before neoplan will never have a shot at selling nyct a bus. 81992 an artic tested here in 1992-1993 was rejected because of political reasons.
NJT had issues with Neoplan in the 80s as well. There was the Neoplan lawsuit against NJT about their bond requirements on bus purchases (they bid against MCI in 82 and 87). MCI had no such problem putting up the bond, 50% of the contract value. NJT maintenance managers also disliked the engne compartment of the Transliners.
Now NJT will be getting Neoplan artics to replace the Volvos. Things DO change.
I want MORE New Flyers!!! If only the suspension wans't crap, then they'd be perfect.
New Flyer's have bad suspensions? Boy, SEPTA is goign to love discovering that.
Call me crazy but I like perimeter seats! That's one of the reasons I sit in the rear of most buses, so when I get up, it's easy to do so, and I don't have to ask the person sitting next to me to love.
There's also more standing room, which for me, means more breathing room.
I noticed about NJT's Flxibles is that their floor seems lower than most other buses, and there are a good deal of space in the front.
"......and I don't have to ask the person sitting next to me to love."
Don't worry, That only happens on LIRR trains.
Sorry, couldn't resist! :)
Whoops, another embarrasing typo. Should've said "moved".
Probably subconciously, I was thinking about getting some much needed loving.
So how long before you give up on that and settle for just plain lust, like the rest of us? Like the low floors we have discussed in the current craze, you just drop to a different level...LOL!!! :P
-F.
Say, that TLF is a good-looking bus; are they in service at NYC?
-F.
They are not in running in New York, but Baltimore is supposed to be getting some Neoplan low floors, either the low entry or the total low floor. They are supposed to arrive at the end of this year.
Wow...bet that will look good in the blue stripe; I hope they don't put that cheesy psuedo-NASCAR flag crap on them when they get there. Sadly, I assume these will replace older Flx Metros?
-F.
Sad to say most likely yes, unless Baltimore is doing a major expansion of its bus fleet. According to reports they might have 125 of these things coming in a couple of months. Also they will have the new paint scheme on them, they are plain jane compared to the blue stripe, but both pail in comparison to the paint scheme on the new looks in the 70s.
Yeah, the New Looks looked pretty neat in those colors. What a shame they are going to that crappy new paint scheme; the TLF would look BEAUTIFUL in the blue reflective stripe. What a step backwards!
-F.
I heard MCI bought out the Loudville, OH plant and they are currently using it as a heavy rebuild facility.
Loudonville produced the Flx New Looks, and parts/sub-assemblies for the 870/Metro. The Delaware OH plant was the assembly line for 870/Metro, and it's on prime industrial real estate land, so Flx probably sold it for as much as possible in the bankruptcy liquidation sale.
Well yes, but the Metro design, unlike our beloved classic Fishbowl, was WAY ahead of its time...so much, in fact, that a restored 1979 Grumman 870 looks like a brand new bus to most people. And it's two years away from being an antique!
Also, Gillig is still cranking out a strong amount of Phantom high floors...that is their bread and butter, no matter how many low floors they plug. Low floors are the wave of the future, but don't expect high floors to disappear overnight. They should stay around for a fairly long time, unless they are just completely outlawed by ADA, in which case there would be a "Grandfather clause" for buses built prior to the mandate. So those of us tooling around in Old Looks or Fishbowls don't have to cut up the floor and drop things to make them legal.
And besides, Flxible designed a low-floor Metro before they closed, so the tooling is bound to be there somewhere!
-F.
Me too; let's petition the company. We certainly have enough backing here at BusTalk...guys and gals, whadda ya say? I'm SERIOUS on this one!
-Fred
I'll put my signature on that petition.
Alright! Who's next?
-F.
I'll sign the petition also, but I don't see where it's going to lead.
We can get 100,000 signatures, but the only thing that matters is a proven high demand with orders for these buses by large agencies like NYCT and WAMATA and the likes. What I would do is request MCI to do a market analysis to send out to all the major transit companies through out the country to see if anybody would be interested in purchasing the Metro if it were to go into production again, with detailed specifications of the bus in the survey. If they get many positive responses, then perhaps they would be more interested in bringing the Flxible Metro back to life.
BIG AL
Al, you've got a point there. Perhaps we could all come together to persuade MCI to do a market analysis? After all, there are several BO's and transit personnel on our board, so we have all the more strong of an influence.
-F.
Count me in too, I liked to see a Metro with a Cummins ISM or Detroit Diesel Series 50 and Allison B500 tranny.
Stephen
I'd have to go with the Cummins ISL and a Voith combo for a new Metro. Never rode a bus with the ISM; is it as smooth and as good-sounding as the L? I'm not feeling the Series 50...too clanky for my taste, although it sounds okay in Detroit DDOT's new RTS fleet.
-F.
Here in Santa Clara, CA, VTA has 1992 Flxible Metros from 9201 to 9291. They previously had a Cummins LT10 and Voith D863.3. Because of the emission, VTA is repowering them to Cummins ISM, it sounds very like the LT10, but when the engine is idling, its sound is more crystal clear....
In the East Bay, AC Transit is also repowering their 1993 DDC 6V92TA/Voith D863.3 Gilligs with Cummins ISM. From the outside, they sound similar, but in the inside, it's a different story...that's why I like to see an Allison Metro with either a Cummins or a Detroit Diesel.
Stephen
Hmm...a Voith with a 6V92, eh? Bet THAT sounds different. I always liked the sound of a Voith mated to an ISL, especially the downshift. And what exactly is the Allison Metro?
-F.
I'm just hopping that they will improve the Metro to be equipped with a B400 or B500 transmission...
>>> let's petition the company. We certainly have enough backing here at BusTalk...guys and gals, whadda ya say? I'm SERIOUS on this one! <<<
And how many buses are we ordering when we send this petition?
Tom
Oh, let's see...about 100? That should put them in the black on the first order...LOL!!! Seriously though, I would like to see what would happen if we did. It's a long shot, but you never know until you try. How would we go about doing this?
-F.
Well today I took the 171 both ways from the GWB to the Garden State mall. Both ways I had Flxibles and there wasn't an MCI cruiser in sight!
Going I had one of the "Cummins" ones,(#3737) it was fast and quiet. It had no rear door. Going back I had one of the un-repowered ones, but the good ol 6V-92 kept up good speed on route 4, though it was noiser. That one had a rear door. But it failed to open at GWB, so I heard the familiar "yelling" of "back door, back door". Felt like a LI Bus.
Of course both LI Bus rides were loads of fun. Going the traffic was terrible, the bus took 20 minutes just to get from Glenwood to Searingtown rd and 25a. But once we got out of Nasty county we made up for lost time in Queens, arriving in Flushing only 10 minutes late.
Going back the 5;44pm N21 didn't show until 10 minutes later, and the poor driver had to take a bathroom break, so we didn't leave until almost 6pm.
At least the traffic wasn't too bad.
But going in the opposite direction 25a was backed up from Middle Neck road to the City Line, looked like one big parking lot.
I still wonder what happened to the MCI cruisers on the 171, they used to run all the time a few months ago, today I didn't see one operating on the 171.
The equipment one finds on the 171 (and 175) can be highly unpredictable - anything from transit RTS's and Flxibles to suburban Flxibles (1-door and 2-door) to new D4000 Cruisers. In recent months, many of the buses out of Market Street garage on the 190 are now Cruisers instead of Flxible suburbans. As a result, there seem to be fewer Cruisers on the 171 and 175. Unfortunately, I don't observe these routes frequently enough to really see any definite patterns developing.
you think that's something? On Friday on my way to the GWB from Hackensack I was expecting to be on an MCI Cruiser since thats all I've ever seen on the 182 and to my suprise I get a Flexible #3733 instead,and the next one after that was also a Flexible then a MCI Cruiser.And the coincidence is #3733 was on the 175 on the day I took that bus to Garden State Plaza.I rode 3733 on the 175 then when I was gonna take the 163 to the PA the same bus comes back but this time as a 171,I was like wtf was going on here!? next thing you know Flexibles and RTS's are gonna be showing up on the 178,another route in which I've only seen MCI's.And of course the 186 always used Flexibles as well tile the Cruisers came along now its mostly Cruisers on that route.I wonder about the 188.I havnt seen that route in what seems like ages
That's not all - I once saw a Nova on the #164 and a Metro D Transit on the #145. And once I also saw a Volvo signed as the #163 at the PABT, but it was on the wrong level and I don't think it really was the 163.
But yes, I have noticed a lot more Flxibles on the #171 and 175 lately.
Basically the NJT Routes out of the bridge are Pot Luck Lines. I've seen EVERY thing run on the lines out of there.
Here is a list that I've kept.....
171 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B" & "D", MCI D4000 Cruisers
175 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B" & "D", MCI D4000 Cruisers
178 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B" & "D", MCI D4000 Cruisers
181 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B", once a Volvo Artic, and once a MCI D4000 with Lavatory
182 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B" & "D", MCI D4000 Cruisers
186 - MCI D4000 Cruiseres
188 - Nova RTS, Flxible METRO "B", and once a MCI D4500
Those bridge line operated by Market Street are VERY unpredicatble. I know why, my mother was a Market Street Bus Operator (Now with rail), you basically can take out whatever you want. Some operators have favorite buses and take that type out, for instance my mother's two favorite buses were MCI 9A #6200 and Flxible METRO "B" #3114, if she was doing a NYC (PABT or Bridge) Run she'd have either or. Now on a Local of course she'd have to have a Nova. So it depends upon the operator from Market Street for the MOST part. As for the lines from Meadowlands (181 and 188) and Oradell (186), they primarily stick to the same equipment type, (181 and 188 mainly Nova RTS with a Garden Variety Flxbile METRO "B", 186 ALL D4000 because that's all Oradell has).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
If you check with Meadowlands operator Tony, I believe that Meadowlands has roughly 7 or 8 flxs left.
Troy
Yup we lost almost all our Metro B's It's a damn shame. We only have buses 3017, 3063, 3109, 3111, 3213, 3261 and 3274 left. And 3 of these buses are awwful. Mine is 3274, it is the only bus I use when I am doing 126 on weekends. Unless it is in the shop, then I use 3109. It is a shame too see the Flxibles go. We definately need more atleast 15 Flxibles would be good. I miss the Wide body ones, sooo much like 3547 and 3556. Those were sweet, but I am sorry to say they are sadly going.
Tony Merced
Speaking of "Potluck", here in South Jersey, we tend to get a lot of variety on the buses out of Washington Twp. garage. For example, on the 400, 403, 406 you will get everything from a "Baby RTS" to a D4000 on a single line. It's more rigid at Newton Ave, with RTS's, Flx Metros on the 404/405/407/413/419, and the intra-state runs from the garage. The 409, and the 317 gets the MCI D4000's, but on the 409, an occasional RTS or Flx Metro will make a appearence mostly on Express and Burlington short trips.
When I took the 175 about 12.5 months ago, it was mostly Flxible Metros.
You left your correct email address within your latest attempt to infect my system with a virus.
AOL has been notified. I will notify Dave as well.
To everyone else, there is a regular contributor here who has been attempting to send me virus-laiden email messages (he's too stupid to understand 'webtv users' cannot get viruses). If you have been receiving similar messages, "To Terminate" and a host of other silly subject lines, please email me and I will forward to you the offending email.
I think a former or current poster happened to send a virus. It didn't appear to be a legit email since I had not written him for some time. I did not open it but be on the lookout for things from mrsubway2.
>>> To everyone else, there is a regular contributor here who has been attempting to send me virus-laiden email messages (he's too stupid to understand 'webtv users' cannot get viruses). <<<
Are you sure of that? Do you know how the KLEZ virus works? Before you start accusing fellow Bus Talkers of attempting to send you a virus, you should read this article.
Tom
the guy probably doesn`t even know his computer is infected. i have been sent numerous emails from unsuspecting friends that my virus scan has detected viruses.
I recently got a letter from a cousin stating that a virus is going around. If I click a link on the letter, I would see what damage it would do.
No thanks cousin!
>>> the guy probably doesn`t even know his computer is infected. <<<
It isn't infected. KLEZ gets the address from another machine's address book. So if Machine "A" is infected and in its address book, the e-mail addresses of Machines "B", "C" and "D" are stored, the virus harvests those addresses and will send e-mails which appear to come from "B", "C" and "D" which are completely virus free.
Tom
I got two today and one last week. Thats why my email is not part of this or any other no more! Thank God for Norton Antivirus.
By now, most of you already know that the contract talks have begun. Join us on Wednesday 9/24/02 at 4:00 PM at 130 Livingston Street, Brooklyn, for the first of many CONTRACT RALLYS.
Details? http://www.qvdepot.com and click "Contract 2002" from the sidebar.
The day started later than usual, because of a conference call, but I found out my assistant was on it, so off I went. I was planning to take the N11 into VA, but due to time constraints, I took the train.
I started off with Orion 6, 2036(F14 to Naylor Road). This bus is a funny bus in that the when the bus accelerates and is at a constant speed, it goes chi-cha, chi cha, until the bus operator applies the brakes.
Got to the rail boarded CAF series cars to L'Enfant Plaza, then Breda series cars to King Street. Boarded DASH bus 47 to Van Dorn Street Station, a Gillig Phantom (AT-7), and then Orion 5 (route 109 to Springfield). After lunch, I caught Orion 5 (7879, route 110) to the King Street Station, oh by the way the first Orion 5 was Fairfax Connector 7796 and so was the second Orion 5. On the way to King Street, I saw something I thought I would never see, an 8700 with a bike rack, that being the 8700s none wheelchair lift buses and though this one has been rehabbed, most if not all of the 8700s and the non wheelchair lift buses will be retired, when Four Mile Run's CNGs come in. I also think that this bus may have been retrofitted with a wheelchair lift, but don't hold me to this.
At King Street, got Metro B 9285 (N11 to Branch Avenue). After this week, the N11 and the N13 will no longer have midday and night service and the N13 will be rerouted to serve the Suitland Station, so any D.C. bus fans who want to take a N11 or N13 trip during the midday or the night time, take it before Saturday. Usually this trip would be an encounter with the dreaded Wilson Bridge, but the Wilson Bridge trip today was tame today. When the bus got back on route 495, going Branch Avenue, though, there was a back-up on the Beltway past Saint Barnabus Road, because of a truck that broke through the barrier and ran off the road. Got to Branch Avenue and got Orion 5, 4250 (C14 to Naylor Road Station) and then caught Metro B 8801, with a bad muffler (F14 to home).
WOW...the 8700s are still in regular service? The very first Flx Metros in the fleet? After 16 years? I LOVE you, WMATA.....I wanna MOVE TO D.C.!!!
The closest TA to me that still operates Flx Metros has sadly cut them back to Hokie game shuttle service, and may be tossing them after the end of this football season. I will cry when this happens. :(
-F.
They are rolling as strong as ever. Rode 8713 a couple of weeks ago and it still looks in tip top shape. Many of the 8700s were rehabbed, the last being rehabbed in 1998 or 99. I had a theory, in if Flxible came back or never went bankrupt, WMATA might have kept these buses for at least 20 years and would have eventually rehabbed them all, with the 8700s, 8950-8975, 9251-9289, and 9421-9463 possibly getting wheelchair lifts. Unfortunately, WMATA has planned 15 years life for their buses, with the last Flxibles (4001-4105) to be retired in 2010. BOO-HOO!!
I know; that is terrible. So let's ride these things as often as we can!!! I have GOT to hit D.C. sooner or later..just have to find a legitimate reason.
Hmm..The Fonz has a leather jacket at the Smithsonian, and there is that groovy M*A*S*H display that I've heard so much about...
-F.
Did you guys receive the paddles and MCI photos that were sent last week?
I received my pic of 2859-again thanks for the pic-it's an awesome shot. I now have it hanging in my room.
#2859 X63
Yes, I got the paddles yesterday. I have to get out the Queens map and figure out the locations on the paddle. I was surprised that some runs have three POs/PIs. I haven't quite figured out the time pay figure. Supposedly it's the number of hours of pay for the run. It seems to include time off (time between pull in and pull out) but I could be mistaken.
Thanks again.
Michael
Washington, DC
Yes, I got my pic of MCI D4501 bus #2859! Thanks again! I got it hanging up in my room!
Hey folks; just wanted to let you know I found some neat small-scale buses by Matchbox. These are Ikarus coaches with "Down The Shore Tours of NJ" colors and are in package with a NJ license plate. I have a few left and these can be converted to Grumman 870/Flx Metros or NABI with no problems complete with correct tandem wheels.
Let me know if any of you may be interested in these...thanks!
-Fred
Last night I was on my MCI and we were waiting next to a Command Bus loading on Water Street. Saw a woman depositing coins, and easily saw the driver's display that tells how much $$ is deposited.
The farebox went to $3.00, then to $0.01. Could this lady have deposited a penny and the farebox is able to read them?? Is it just that the MTA doesn't want to be bothered with pennies, and that is why they aren't accepted if the farebox can read it???
TA fare boxes do take pennies it's that they don't like to advertise it. The fare boxes would fill up too fast.
Peace,
ANDEE
The TA buses could always accept pennies - even the old chattering ones from the new-look era. However, the TA always tried to discourage paying with pennies. Back in those days the driver basically looked at what each passenger dropped into the farebox and he'd count the change before dumping it. Of course with a bunch of pennies it would be very easy to put in less than the full fare. IIRC - The decal that the TA applied to the farebox with the fare info. actually had "No Pennies Please" at the bottom.
Wayne
I had two woman on the B82 @ Cannal St each put 150 Pennies for there fare. They did it so that every one was counted. That was the frist and only time this happen to me, I have had other use a few pennies mixed in.
Robert
I've put in what I thought were dimes and they counted as pennies. Now, does this happen a lot, or were those actually pennies?
I should note I've only encountered this on Triboro.
Those machines calculate the amount of money put in by weight, I think. I know that is how vending machines work. It must have miscalculated.
I always use a MetroCard on the NYCT buses. The only problem I have with coins on fareboxes when I try to get rid of my pennies and I have to help the coins slide into the slot. I do not pay with 110 pennies though!
The farebox has a device inside called a "Sizzer", it looks at the diameter & thickness of the coins.
At this depot we get about $25 worth of pennies every day.
I have Quarters count as SBAD, or Nickels as $1.25Token and so on and so fourth.
Robert
That "Sizzer" is being replaced thru-out the entire system, mainly because it's worn out.
Not too long ago they did the same for all the turnstile swipe R/W devices.
the reason pennies are not accepted by transit is the machines that remove the money from fareboxes don`t accept them. there are no allocated bins for the pennies to be vacuumed to when the money is removed. lots of times pennies are just all over the inside of the machine.
Used 20 last night to make up the $3.00 for the express bus. The farebox took them and counted each individualy - as I saw the total going up, one dollar amount was $2.54.
Would like your opinion on the following
If i was in charge of the Department of Buses i would assign the routes to the following depots in the Brooklyn Division as follows:
EAST NEW YORK-B7(split Flatbush),B12,B14,B15,B17,B20(split Fresh Pond),Q24,B25,B42,B45,B47,Q56,B60,B83
JACKIE GLEASON-B8,B9,B11,B16,B23,B35,B37,B43,B51,B61,B63,B65,B67,B68,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B6(split Ulmer Park),B7(Split East New York),B31,B39(Midnights only).B41,B44,B46,B49,B82
ULMER PARK-B1,B3,B4,B6(split Flatbush),X25,X26,X27,X28,X29,B36,B64,B74,F SHUTTLE,Q SHUTTLE
FRESH POND-B13,B20(split East New York),B24,B38,B39(except midnight trips),B48,B52,B54,Q54,Q55,B57,Q58,Q59
Reasons for the changes:
1-As the B-7 does not operate till Coney Island Ave all day some runs will operate from Flatbush for logestical reasons)
2-B47 to East New York for better operation
3-B82 to Flatbush for better operation
Any commnets
Thank You
How would there be better operation for the B47 and the B82?
I like your ideas, especially when you talk about splitting the B6(between UP & FB) because it could use some extra runs and the B7(between ENY & FB) because when the run is done, it is a shorter relay back to FB (I believe the B7 should have stayed in FB in the first place) BUT:
About changing depots with the B47: I think it should stay be split with ENY. I say FB runs should cover the old B78 portion (from the #3 train station at Rutland Road to Kings Plaza) while ENY takes the whole route(if you look in the B47 schedule, every other bus ACTUALLY goes to Flushing Av on weekdays & saturdays).
About changing depots with the B82: Where would FB get the extra buses from??????While I believe the 82 could use some more runs OR a limited stop service, they really couldn't do it because they already operate heavy volume buses (B41,44&46 & they have LIMITED STOP service) & you may have to cut service from ALL 3, which wouldn't be a good idea.
Comments, criticism or compliments, Holla back!
The problem with running the B82 out of Flatbush isn't where the buses would come from (the Department of Buses would transfer enough buses over to Flatbush from "wherever" to make it work); it's where they would be stored when not in use. Flatbush doesn't have room for the B82 unless another route of comparable size were to leave.
David
Thanks for pointing that out. The depot is basically jam-packed with around 260-270 buses already so imagine getting about 20-30 MORE to cover the 82.They would have to move the 41,44 or 46 to a new depot (which is VERY UNLIKELY).If this EVER happened, FB would end up like ENY, which had to give up the B8 to JG because of too many extra buses that parked on Broadway.
the extra buses could come from Crosstown-reopen that depot. If so, the new brooklyn roster could be like this:
JG:8,9,16,23,35,37,51,61,63,65,67,68,69,70,71,75,77.
UP:1,3,4,6,36,64,74,X25,X27/X37,X28/X38,X29,F Shuttle.
FP:18,26,38,39,52,54,57,Q54,Q55,Q58,Q59.
ENY:7,12,14,15,17,25,45,60,82,83,Q24,Q56.
FLA:2,31,41,44,46,47,49.
Crosstown:24,43,48,61.
Hows that?
Crosstown will not reopen as an active depot. NYCT plans to build a new depot in Maspeth, a facility that has been discussed here from time to time and that is slated to be not only a depot but also a Central Maintenance Facility. However, Caine824's choice of routes to go to Crosstown may very well be among those to go to Maspeth (which is planned to be a much bigger depot than Crosstown).
Don't start looking for Maspeth Depot buses yet, though...there isn't any construction activity at the site yet.
David
the best idea would be to reinstate the B5 and make that operate via Crospsey-Canal Av through Bway-Halsey Street via Kings Highway. Cut the B82 to operate between Coney Island Avenue-Kings Highway to Starrett City. B5 could run out of Ulmer Park with the B82 from ENY. Both buses could run 24-7.
B3-#4874
If operations plannng were to split operate routes in brooklyn route such as the 6 and 82 could be split between up and eny. The 7,46 and 47 eny and fb the 8 and 35 jg and eny. of course spaceis aploblem right now this could be more probable wher and if Maspeth ever opens
Barry,
Good things but let's do the following:
Leave the B47 at Flatbush. East New York does not need more buses to clog up Jamaica Av like it did before.
Let Flatbush have the B6 so people do not have to complain about Ulmer Park's express buses on the B6. You could split the B7 with East New York but I think Flatbush can handle the B7.
Okay, East new York does need some revenue so leave the "screwed up" B82 where it is.
If I'm not mistaken (and I know that I'm not...LOL) did the B68 USE to be at Ulmer Park? Just a question. Now, as for the Ulmer Park routes....I would do this:
B1, B3, B4, B36, B64 and B74. Also, X27, X28, X29, X37 and X38. The X25 should be at MJQ in my opinion!
Fresh Pond is okay!
The X25 is operated by X27 buses returning to Brooklyn. By making the X25 use its own buses from MJQ, you have higher costs.
Could the X26 also be opererated with trips from UP returning to Brooklyn? I know it is at MJQ now.
[Okay, East new York does need some revenue so leave the "screwed up" B82 where it is.]
Why does ENY need some revenue? It's all part of NYC Bus - there is no reason any individual depot needs a certain amount of revenue.
Okay, wrong choice of words.
Ulmer Park used to have the following lines:
B8-then split with UP and ENY, then all ENY,then JG
B68-went to JG.
B82-split with eNY, then all ENY.
"Let Flatbush have the B6 so people do not have to complain about Ulmer Park's express buses on the B6."
Numerous Bustalkers have asserted that the UP Nova express converts do NOT run on the B6 due to its excessive length and servicing of numerous schools along its route. The combination of easy-to-vandalize cushion seats and an extremely narrow aisle would make running those buses on the 6 very difficult. They don't seem to run on the 36 either.
As it IS, many delays and conflicts have resulted due to the narrow aisles on these buses when run on the 1 and 3 on weekends. This past Sunday on the 64, there was a loud, profane argument that nearly escalated into fisticuffs from 86th & Fort Ham all the way to Bath & 18th. Not only was the bus packed, but several people contributed to congestion in the aisle by using the seats next to them for their packages- and belligerently refusing when asked to move them so someone might sit. Among the standees were several senior citizens and a mother with a toddler.
All the driver could do was say "If you're gonna fight, take it off the bus."
I know I keep harping on this subject, but one of these days we're gonna open the newspaper and read about a stabbing or shooting resulting from this practice. It may be more likely with all three Queens depots increasingly using express converts on local routes. THAT would be a public relations nightmare for the city, the TA and the Bus Division.
"'Let Flatbush have the B6 so people do not have to complain about Ulmer Park's express buses on the B6.'"
"Numerous Bustalkers have asserted that the UP Nova express converts do NOT run on the B6 due to its excessive length and servicing of numerous schools along its route. The combination of easy-to-vandalize cushion seats and an extremely narrow aisle would make running those buses on the 6 very difficult. They don't seem to run on the 36 either."
If the B6 were to be transferred from Ulmer Park to Flatbush, Flatbush would need additional vehicles to support the route. Who's to say that those buses wouldn't be the very coaches we know and "love?"
BTW, coaches do run on the B36 from time to time...it seems to have started recently.
David
It just had pondered me!
I thaught the B 6 does have FLA buses running during rush hours only to Ralph Av. It runs between Glenwood Rd/ Nostrand Av to Ralph and Flatlands Av. I don't know about vise versa but it is always crowded when I see it. Where are they coming from in terms of thier last trip (I assuming they are the busses coming from Verterans Av that terminate at Nostrand Av)? So why can a split route happen?
Flatbush provides some support for the B6 in the form of short trips between Ralph Avenue and Nostrand Avenue (buses pull out to Rockaway Parkway in the morning). When school is open, there are two runs as well as several interlined pieces provided by route B44; when school is closed, there are interlined pieces from the B44 but no runs. The vast majority of trips on the B6 are provided by buses and Operators from Ulmer Park Depot.
David
Ulmer Park better get some replacement buses soon-either spend the money to change the NOvABUS #9295-#9341 to hard seaters or get buses. this situation has to change.
Howard,
Here are some of my reasoning
Re:The B-47 i understand has about 60 runs. If that is true then it should be in East New York because that is the closest depot to the B-47 and is right in the middle so the buses can operate to either terminal. If that is the case then the TA can send the B-82 to Flatbush which will have buses pulling out or running off in the middle of the route and service can be covered from both ends from the middle instead of having buses pull out early to reach the other end of the route which is some distance from the depot like both the B-47 and B-82 currently do.
The B-7 should be split only to have the service from Coney Island Ave which runs daytimes only have easier pull outs and run offs without causing excessive serice from Broadway which now happens when service begins or ends to Coney Island Ave
By the way the X-25 i understand is routed via the x-29 route. The x-26 can be routed with either the x-27 or x-28
Thank You
When the X26 was being developed, an attempt was made to interline it with the X2737/X2838/X29. It was found to be unworkable, even when supplemented with Staten Island buses. The present arrangement works well -- why change it?
David
David,
Simple reason. It costs money the way it is operated now. If its interlined with an Brooklyn or Staten Island the expense will be much least.
At this time i believe that operating costs of the X-26 are bveing covered by the Federal Government due to the 9/11 terror attacks
Thank You
Take a look at the X26 timetable on the MTA website and try to interline it with the Brooklyn and/or Staten Island expresses that are also on the website, using the same exact trip leaving times on all routes. Let me know how it can be done while saving runs and/or extras compared with the current total for Brooklyn plus Staten Island plus the X26 routes, and I'll make sure the appropriate personnel are made aware of the solution.
David
David,
It can be done the same way the X-25 is done with the X-29. If anything it should be easier since the x-27 and x-28 terminate and originate at 23rd Street and Broadway during peak hours and Penn Station is about 10 to 12 minuates away.
Thank You
I know very well how to do it like the X25 is done. I'm saying it CANNOT be done.
The first X26 is scheduled to leave Penn Station at 6:30 AM. The first X27 is scheduled to arrive at E. 57th Street & Madison Avenue at 6:22 AM, the first X28 is scheduled to arrive there at 6:28 AM, and the first X29 is scheduled to arrive there at 7:18 AM. All righty, then...the $64,000 question...which of these buses is going to be able to make it to Penn Station in time for a 6:30 departure, allowing sufficient time to deadhead and bearing in mind the contractual 3-minute minimum layover following the deadhead? Bzzzzt...wrong...the answer is NONE OF THEM.
And don't suggest using Staten Island buses, either. Many, if not all, of the earliest trips are followed by deadheads back to Staten Island for second trips. Thus, NO SAVINGS.
The best that could be done is a hodgepodge, where some Ulmer Park express runs and some Staten Island express runs do X26 work. However, the current service span and frequency could not be satisfied in this scenario.
As I said: find me a way to do it and I'll forward it to the appropriate personnel.
David
Can't they modify the schedules of the X26 or any other route involved slightly? Also, is the X26 here to stay or once the PATH comes back to lower Manhattan, will the X26 no longer run?
Whether the X26 can be modified or not would have to be determined after traffic checks are done, which I believe has not happened to date.
David
David,
Timetables can always be adjusted. If anything check the LIRR timetables as more trains arrive after 6:30AM than before 6:30AM.
I was a LIRR commuter for 17 years and i know.
Thank You
That would be quite an "adjustment." In fact, since we're talking about the first trip of the day here, we're talking about a span reduction. Frankly, I haven't seen any traffic checks on the X26, so I don't know whether a span reduction is warranted. Whether it is or isn't, however, doing as Barry says would be changing the rules. I asked how the present X26 service could be provided by interlined Brooklyn and/or Staten Island express runs without costing runs and/or buses in Brooklyn and/or Staten Island, and he has failed to demonstrate how it could be done.
Try again.
David
David,
Please e mail me all the information and then i will tell you how to do it.
I need to know all the X -27 and X-28's 2nd trips and pull ins either at Ulmer Park or Quill and their respective pull outs.
This also includes the x-37 and X-38
Thank You
I'm not going to do that.
I checked with some people in my office. Ridership on the X26 is up to 650 a day and is climbing. While I was not able to get a breakdown by half-hour period (I'm still trying to get that), it seems unlikely that a span reduction would be in order.
As for interlining, it was considered when the X26 schedule was being developed (I think I already said that; if I did, it bears repeating -- if not, well, it's certainly germane to the conversation). It was determined that not every trip could be covered by interlining with Brooklyn or Staten Island express runs -- most, yes, but not all. Since not all of the service could be covered by interlining, the Department of Buses asked that ALL X26 service be operated by X26 runs. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to take up the matter with Buses Senior Vice President Seay.
David
I believe FLA is closer to the KP terminal than ENY to Woodhull terminal. But I still believe the B47 should come out of ENY, since it shares the Woodhull terminal with the B15 and any problems should arise, bus swapping would be much easier. Also the Rutland Rd terminal is right by the B15 as well. Im used to seeing B15 deadheads along Bway to Flushing so it should not be a problem. Then again the B47 southern terminal at KP share with the B41 and B46 so bus swapping will probably easier there. This is an interesting situation.
I say split the B47 between FB & ENY. Since every 47 DOES NOT go to Flushing Av on weekdays(rush hours) & saturdays(see the schedule), let ENY take the full route while FB takes the old B78 portion(from Rutland Rd to Kings Plaza). Plus, bus swapping shouldn't be a problem at either terminal.
If the TA was smart they will swing the B-47 at Ralph Ave ans St Johns Place and have the buses pull out and run off from Sutter Avenue Station
Thank You
"Fresh Pond is okay"
Yeah, FP's routes are perfectly fine the way they are, because no other depot can handle them. However in the future when we see Maspeth Depot, there are some FP routes that can be taken over.
Maspeth: Q54, Q58(split with FP), Q59, B24, B39, B48, B57.
Here's what should stay in FP
Fresh Pond: B13, B20(own it completely), B26, B38, B52, B54, Q55, Q58(split with MAS).
You do you think?
All Q58 runs belong in FP so that reliefs can be made right in front of the depot. Couldn't do that at Maspeth.
What about sending the B65 to ENY depot?? I also agree with the B47 out of ENY.
Does anyone have a Coachusa/Red&Tan/Community/Academy update?
As of now things are at a stand still, Academy was up to the Rockland Coaches (Red & Tan Lines) Property looking around about a week or so ago. I also heard that Olympia and Liesure Lines may be in the deal. But also as of now its all talk.
Our Union isn't saying much and everyone is putting off like it isn't happening. I Don't Know, It's all kinda suspect to me, because if it isn't gonna happen, then why was Academy Officials on the Rockland Coach property.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
On September 6th, 1994 (just after Labor Day) my family and I was coming back from Flushing on the Q17 (Bus #3906 which was NEVER repainted and is currently at Yukon. Buses #3905 and #3907 were repainted but not #3906!) Anyway, the bus was crowded and this moron of a bus driver was trying to help this woman on the bus because she was "robbed" which really was not the case. She was just overreacting. Asking to check people's bags which was not going well with other passengers. So, she was talking to the bus driver from Kissena Blvd/Booth Memorial Av to 73rd Av/188th St. As we got to 73rd Av/188th St, the driver makes a RIGHT TURN onto 73rd Av! WHY! We were all like "WHAT THE @#$%^&! He drove her down to the OLD 107th Precinct which is now a storage place...I think! The NEW 107th Precinct is on Parsons Blvd and 71st Av! The driver helped her then said, "Anybody has a problem, you can write my ID number down and report me!" My Dad was the ONLY one who did that DESPITE EVERYBODY ELSE SCREAMMING AT THE DRIVER! So, as we proceeded down 73rd Av to about 186th St, then a left on 186th St, then a left (a PAINFUL LEFT) onto 75th Av. In Fresh Meadows, 75th Av has an isle in the middle of the street from Utopia Pkwy to 193rd St. So as the Q17 made the turn, it was UP and DOWN hard!....(over the isle.) Then we backed up and did it again! About three times! As we got to 75th Av/188th St, the Q17 behind us was like "Huh?" It was bus #4354 (no logo...just the old "New York City Transit Authority - 4354") and we made a right onto 188th St and regular. So, that was my memory of the Q17! As for the driver, who knows but my Dad WALKED to the Jamaica Depot since I knew where it was and gotten things straighten out...according to him...I was not there so do not ask!
Q5Merrick and BIG AL, does that sound familiar? Do you remember that?
That is an interesting story. Unfortunately, it is the first I've ever heard of it. Maybe BIG AL can shed some light on it. I can say this much that if this b/o went to the 1-0-7 on his own without first calling the incident into the Bus Command center or flagging down a police officer, he was taking quite a chance with his job.
--Mark
That's right! You are correct!
The old 107 is now the headquarters of the Queens South Task Force. It is housed in an old garage-like structure. There has always been a police prescence there. The rear of that structure is used by the Zanetti Auto Group (dba Northern Blvd Dodge & Bayside Chrysler-Jeep) as a new car storage facility and prep department.
Very unusual story. As of Sept. 6, 1994 I was only on the job for a total of 22 days. I was hired Aug. 15th 1994, the same month the last of the Flxible New Looks were retired. At that time in Sept.I was driving out of Flatbush depot and did not make my way to Queens until Feb. 1995 at Queens Village. 6 months later I went to Jamaica depot.
I never heard anything remotely like that story even though I've heard others about B/O's going off route for various reasons with the passengers on board. I suspect this was probably a veteran bus operator who already had his 25 years in and felt he had nothing to loose by taking the bus to where ever he felt. Transit management tends to know that trying to discipline operators on the job for 25 plus years can lead no where.
BIG AL
This guy looked like he was on the job for about 3-5 years at least!
Earlier today:
5524 was on the 37 this morning instead of 5619
And just now:
The following Orion Vs from Montgomery now have bike racks (location, route it was running on this afternoon, and other notes in parenthesis):
4399 (Medical Center, J9)
4401 (Medical Center, J3, this is a SmartMover bus with suburban style seating)
4403 (Bethesda, NIS, waiting to start 14B)
4400 (Bethesda, NIS)
4406 (Bethesda, J9)
9626 (Bethesda, J4)
No idea why 4401 was on the J3, I guess they were short buses. The sign would say STATION but not SILVER SPRING. I got pictures of it at Medical Center, on Wisconsin and Woodmont, and I beat it to Bethesda (I was on my bike).
Also made the following Ride-On observations.
5703 was on the 70, I photographed it at Medical Center
I got a picture of 5803 on the 70 at Bethesda
5580 was on the 47 at Bethesda (no picture)
5201 was on the 33 (Ford Cutaway from ATE/Ryder) and photographed
5567 was on the 46 at Medical Center and I got a picture of it, too
92 destination signs now read BETHESDA 8 and then flip to FREE on the cutaways. The rear sign stays on FREE, the side sign stacks the front reading. 5101 was one of the buses on the 92 this afternoon.
Some buses have moved at Bethesda on the middle island. The 34 is now at the second bay, the 70 is at the first bay, and the 47 is at the back bay. Somone has to redo all these assignments. It used to be the busiest routes were closest to the escalator, when the SmartMover came along, the 42 was bumped back a bay, the 36 moved to the back of the middle island, the 27 swung around to the other side of the station, and from there it was history.
I think this is all, if I remember something else, I will post it.
4339 also has a bike rack now.
Wayne
All of Montgomery's Orion Vs now have bike racks, including the 9600s.
Western's Orions have yet to get bike racks and as of today, no more bike racks have been installed on another garage's buses. Northern, Royal, Southeast/Annex, Landover(except 5175, which was three weeks ago), and Bladensburg (except for the CNGs). I have yet to see an Orion VI with a bike rack yet.
I saw several Montgomery Orions without racks today. 4397 and one 9600 come to mind immediately.
I saw 4309 this morning at Friendship Heights on the 35 (that sign is bright!) and it did not appear to have a rack. All the other buses around at that time from Western seemed to be Flxibles.
On a similiar note, not all of Four Mile Run's Orions have bike racks, either, even one or two Flxibles 9200 and up have bike racks. 4240 and 9234 come to mind.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has to do with when they go in for their major maintenence work. They did say it would take 90 days and the buses go in about every 66 or so. It might be...
It might be, couple of days ago I saw two of these buses in the same part of Four Mile Run with its front compartments open being worked on. Sometimes here they keep buses for repair, or buses that are retired and about to be towed out or just extra storage for working buses.
Here's a question that I do not know the answer to, what were the last bus routes in each borough? For example, the Q99 was the last BRAND NEW bus route in Q99 before it was discontinued in 1989-1990. What was the last brand new bus route in the other four boroughs? If I'm wrong about the Q99 then the ALL five boroughs. Oh, route extensions and route shortings DO NOT COUNT! Thanks!
Again, I do not know the answer! I'm asking you guys! Just a thought in my head!
Staten Island is the X22 / X21(now defunct)
Limited Stops on SI is the S84
I don't know about the locals.
The last new bus routes in each borough are as follows:
Manhattan-The M 60 between 125th Street/Powell Blvd and La Guardia Airport
Bronx- The x-61 express route to lower Manhattan which was later discontinued
Queens-The Q-99 which also was discontinued
Brooklyn-The B-51 which is still operating
Staten Island- The X-22 and X-30 express routes
Thank You
x30 was discontinued in 1990. that would be the x31.
Huh? What are you talking about HUDSON?
NO there is an X30 - Sunnyside - instituted after the Academy debacle pullout on SI last year. - I think it is the reverse routing of the X12 via NJ
how about the x37 and x38 and the x42. And if u icluded limited route there wa the s81 which is the s51 ltd and the s93 which runs between si college and Bay Ridge along The s53 and s62.
q20 a&b 14 and 20 avenues.
Hudson, you're slipping...
The x30 you're thinking of was the Arden Ave route out of Yukon that was started around the same time as the x31. They eliminated that one because of low ridership. The new x30 runs in the Forest Ave corridor out of Castleton, and runs west across the island to Midtown via NJ. This came about shortly after 9/11.
The last all-new local route on Staten Island is the s93.
-Hank
Hank,
The S-93 is not a new route. It is a Limited Stop service of the S-53 with a different destination
Thank You
What was the route of the Q-99, and during what years did it run?
Thanks.
The Q-99 was a route that operated from Jamica Center Station at Parsons/Archer to Hillside Ave/169th Street via Archer Ave,168th Street,(return via Merrick Blvd) and Hillside Ave. It was created because merchants near Hillside Ave were afraid that they will lose business from riders of the Merrick Blvd routes( now Q4,Q5,Q42,Q83,Q84,Q85) which were rerouted from Hillside Ave to Jamaica Center when the Archer Ave line was opened in 1988.
I believe that the route ran for approx 2 years
Thank You
The NYCDOT told the NYCT to move its buses off Broadway and Jamaica Av so they can open those streets. Recently, I saw buses from the Jamaica Depot parked on the sidewalk on Merrick Blvd outside the gate of the depot. Can the NYCDOT order those buses in the depot? I know Jamaica Depot is small...I'm not asking that. But can Jamaica become an "East New York" Depot? I've seen a few buses on the corner of Merrick and Liberty on the Southwest corner in a garage of some sort. To me, I did not think that was part of the Jamaica Depot...is it?
I bet ya if they had a couple of routes run when they dont then I'd say there wouldnt be much of a problem. Those routes would be the Q42 and the Q77.I say add Sunday service to the Q77 with 20min headways and the 42 weekend service with 30min headways.
That certainly is part of Jamaica depot. Most of the depot is actually hidden by the row of stores along Merrick blvd from South Rd to 105th ave. What you saw was the very front of the depot with 3 or 4 garage doors with lifts on South Rd. We call this the "front apron".
What you saw in regards to the buses being parked on the sidewalks of Merrick blvd by the gate in front of the yard at night has been going on for years now. I don't know what you mean by Jamaica depot becoming an E.N.Y. depot but if it has to do with street closures, it is not going to happen. Sometimes a few of the buses do get parked on South Rd. but the street is never blocked off to the point where D.O.T. would have to step in and cause problems.
BIG AL
ENY actually had 2 large gates at both ends of the long block that around 10 pm were swung closed and locked prohibiting foot and vehicle traffic from entering that stretch of Broadway .
thus the b8 is now in gleason
What was the orginal buses in the 54 street depot?
Bus routes or actual buses???
Anyways - the routes assigned to FFS were:
M6,M17,M28,M30,M32,M103,M106
Wayne
Now if you really want to answer this correctly, you need to go back to the pre-MABSTOA era (that is Fifth Ave. Coach/NYC Omnibus).
IIRC the routes assigned there were:
5 - 6th Ave (discontinued around 1963 and combined with today's M6)
(M)6 - Broadway
8 & 9 - 7th Ave. (discontinued in the 1950's and combined with today's M10)
15 23d Street Xtown (now M23)
(M)16 - 34th Street Xtown
(M)21 Houston Street & Ave. C
Well the trip started off with Flxible B 8879 (F14 to New Carrolton) and caught Flxible 8804 (F6 to College Park). Along the way the bus I was riding on as well as an F4 that passed us going back to New Carrolton had only the destination and not the route numbers. Got to College Park and got Flxible D 9715 (C8 to White Flint). This bus had a loud muffler, but it sounds similiar to the 9800s with the M11 engine, which makes me wonder if they repowered this bus or the muffler is just bad, I think the latter. By the way WMATA was supposed to repower about 100 buses, but not sure which. Got to White Flint and still saw about 40-50 CNGs at Montgomery. They must be putting the rest in service at a later time. Did see six leave from Montgomery and one that looks like it was going into service on the C8 and one going back to Montgomery.
After taking a break, got Ride On Orion 1 (46 to Rockville) and took some pics at Rockville. From Rockville took 30' Gillig Phantom (49 to Glenmont) and took some pics there. A note about Ride On buses and I don't know if WMATAGMOAGH has reported this, is that now all Ride On buses now sport flag decals on the left side near the rear of their buses. Anyways took Orion V 4336 (Y8 to Silver Spring) and took some pics there. Looks like all of Northern's NABIs have been refurbished, have not seen one of them in their original paint scheme in about two months. Also saw 5212 again (the one with the single stripe in the front) and some 4400s with the "Smartmover" tags taken off, actually only 4412. This one along with 4408 and 4398 were doing duty on the Z routes, with also some NABIs doing the same thing.
Got the J4, an Orion V 9630 back to College Park. This route has mainly used mostly older Orion Vs with some Metro Bs thrown in. The bus driver made a discovery when the bus got to the University of Maryland, he realized that he could use the speaker system, I bet he had fun with that leaving the College Park Station. Apparently he never got a bus with one and boy when he found out he was thrilled.
Got Orion VI 2029 (F6 back to New Carrolton). While waiting to catch the F14 home, the bus that was supposed to work the F14, 2059, apparently had mechnical problems, so the bus driver switched buses with another and we got 4274 on the trip. Needless to say the bus left about 15 minutes later than planned. That was my bus trip today.
I think I had mentioned the flags about 2 weeks ago.
My WMATA buses with flags pictures are still on the digital. My photos from England are almost aall coded so after Boston is taken care of, I will code for the new WMATA content. All this goes onto the new server along with the old content, so it might be awhile before it is all online.
Is anyone planning on attending on Sunday?
Troy
I am.
Coming off the PATH at Hoboken Terminal...definitely gonna try to be there...
Cleanairbus
I plan to be there.
Wayne
I'll Be There, Raising Hell As Usual!
JUST LIKE I SHOULD, ALL OVER HOBOKEN AND STUUUUUUUUF, SHOWING NJT SO MUCH LOOOOOOOVE!
Regard,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
You ain'g gonna raise hell there if BMTman and I don't let you.
Riiiiiiiiiggghhhhhttttt, I can raise hell and not even be there! KNOW MY POWERS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW!
LOL :)
Regards,
Trevor
I don't plan to raise any hell, but it may be fun to watch. Well... I may raise a bit my way up from Maryland - that is if I don't go Greyhound.
Wayne
I have plans to attend, even though I work for the firm!
I'll be there Reppin for the Meadowlands Garage...........Wha Wha!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
I plan to be there. Right now, it sounds like the weather should be decent.
You bet I'll be there! Representin' TT pride all the way, you betta know it!
-Clayton
Last night at about 6:50 PM I was e/b on the GCP at Union Turnpike. Spotted a QSC MCI-Classic Suburban w/b at the same location.
I have seen many TA buses on the GCP but never saw a private there. Was he done with an express route and deadheading to the garage?
Are QSC buses allowed there or was the driver taking a shortcut ?
Privates have used the GCP before. I rode right behind 2823 from Astoria Blvd-LIE a few weeks ago. It was a Q23 deadhead.
Last week 901 came down 51 St from Roosevelt Ave. I was like: What was a Suburban doing on my block? Then it turned down Skillman to 48 St so it was deadheading back to QSC but going the long way. Also it was going kinda slow like he was just cruising around.
#2823 Q23
#901 QM1
From Steve Andersons nycroads.com:
Buses are allowed on the Grand Central Parkway From Triboro Bridge to Nassau County Line.(No Trucks Allowed)
Thanx guys - the reason I posted was that I had never seen a private on that stretch of the GCP. Don't get on the portion from KEW to the TB very often so I'm not familiar with that stretch of the parkway.
thanks to the failure of orion to deliver its orion 7 in a timely fashion it appears we are heading for this soon. also the scrapping of 9 year old buses is ludicrous. new flyer has also faied to deliver any new artics.
hey give it time.everything including bus delivery takes time. you'll start seeing new buses next year so be patient.
Will any of them be RTSes?
-F.
nope,RTS's exist no more.the only RTS's left are those that are already on TA property,the last RTS's ever made were by NovaBus company.
Didn't the most recent order of MCI's provide some breathing room?
The Orions and the New Flyers are due to come in starting later this fall. As for the 9-year-old buses being scrapped, it's entirely possible that they were damaged beyond reclamation. Nearly new buses have been scrapped after serious accidents.
David
How come the "privates" must keep their buses for 12-15 years, in most cases without any overhauls except power trains in-house? The 1988 and 1989 MCI classics are still on the road in everyday service. Are there any 1988 TA buses in service....that have not been overhasuled? I saw someone say somethingf about 9 year old TA buses being scrapped? Give me a break.
Well, from what I've been told by several drivers is that the owner of NYBS has alot of power with DOT. It amazes me that they are still allowed to operate '81 Fishbowls. I wonder if they will ever go on the selling block....
Saw NYBS #1486 looking good on the Bruckner heading to Coop City . No dents , no smoke , and good pickup .No reason to get rid of it .
A bus can be totaled. That's probably what happened in the case of the 9-year-old scrapped buses.
As for how long NYCT runs buses vs. how long DOT's "private" carriers run them, NYCT's got plenty (as in hundreds) of buses that are 12 years old or better. They generally don't get fully rebuilt (like the "Blitzes" were), but they get overhauled every 3-4 years with a major overhaul after about 6 years.
David
Plus, in most cases, the private bus lines hold onto a bus for its entire career. A typical MTA bus is bounced from depot to depot to depot several times over its life. This result is inconsistant (though not necessarily bad) maintenance and attention whereas most of the privately-operated DOT buses call one facility home for years and years. This does not make a huge difference, but it's something to consider...
WMATA rotates their buses from depot to depot so that they don't get pampered too much. An example is that Four Mile Run is a weekday only depot. Recently, a bunch of its buses were transfered to Western to even out the milages. Western's routes are not where buses are sent for pampering. I am sure that 4300-4309 and whatever else came with those 10 buses are getting quite a workout now.
true david about accidents but in the case of 125 this bus was rebuilt painted and looked like new and yet never saw another day of service.
I think buses are being retired more quickly due to obsolescence, rather than having them wear out. Handicapped Access laws pushed the TA toward kneeling buses, and now pushes it toward low floors. Air pollution laws push the TA to phase out older diesel engines, so why not just replace some of the buses.
In a way it's a good thing -- buses are getting better to a great enough extent to be worth replacing. As someone who was always bothered by bus fumes while riding, driving behind, or standing on the street, I'm all for it.
[How come the "privates" must keep their buses for 12-15 years, in most cases without any overhauls except power trains in-house?]
Because NYCDOT (which owns the buses) tells them to.
Where is the evidence of a 'looming bus shortage'?
Unless some buses begin failing so spectacularly that they cannot be repaired, I highly doubt that NYCT will put itself into a hole by retiring buses before their replacements are in service.
Jim D.
In fact, it is quite possible. On a similar note, I recall in the '60's, the TA scrapped BMT Standards so quickly they ran out of equipment and had to run Low-V's with extenders on BMT track. Oft times, as good as a bus may be, it may be scrapped by the MTA simply because it gets old. 1751 was a good example of that, and also the Blitz fishbowls.
the blitz fishbowls were pulled off the roads when a staten island express blitz had its rear end come through the floor and kill someone
not exactly. the passenger was blinded in one eye. the operator as a reult later suffered a stroke and was confined to a nursing home where he may still be vegetating to this day. nyct pulled the blitzes and inspected them. as a result they were reassigned to local service. from late nov 1992 till february 1995 they served as locals. their lifespan was suppsed to be 7 years from date rebuilt and they should have been off the road by 1992.
Yes, but sometimes a machine just cannot be repaired over and over and over anymore!
I've checked out the TT roster and Q5Merrick's input on BT. There are still some holes in the Orion family. I know that the following is true:
#101-105, #109-119 and #138 are at Casey Stengel (ALL REPOWERED)
#106-108 are at Queens Village (NOT REPOWERED)
#121, #123-126, #128-132, #134 and #139 are at Yukon
#145, #148, #165-172 are at Castleton (ALL REPOWERED)
#136, #141-143, #147, #149-150 and #157-159 are at Michael J. Quill (ALL SHOULD BE REPOWERED)
#127 is at Mother Clara Hale (REPOWERED)
So, my question is:
Where are buses #135, 137, #140, #144, #146, #151-156 and #160-164? (ALL SHOULD BE REPOWERED)
I know that buses #120, #122 and #133 are scrap. (ALL WERE REPOWERED)
Thanks to whoever answeres this.
Guess What
Saw Orion 134 this morning while on the X15.
Orion V 134 was sitting at the terminal of its route on the corner of Midland Avenue and Richmond Road on the S51.
AND IT HAD CASTLETON STICKERS ON IT.
Where the hell these things are winding up, who knows.
Plus I still swear seeing 133 on the S79 not too long ago - within the last 2 weeks.
Also the last few mornings I have seen Orion 132 on the S74 going towards Tottenville.
Interesting to note about this bus.
The only way to tell that this is 132 is by looking at the rear & sides of the bus for the number, because in the front, someone decided to change the number to 321. And no such bus exists.
Now it didn't look like an X or 300/400 Run (Extra or MISC)but a regular run. It had YUKON Stickers on it. Could it have found it's new home in Castleton and not had the stickers changed?
i know 138 is at yukon and 132, 127 and a bunch of others are at yukon. 132 i think is a school piece. yukon has got a bunch of 100's in the last few weeks. and every morning, cast is using the 100's on the 66/67 line.
Ok first of all 102 103 104 110 115 116 119 are not repowered. 138 is still at CS Also not repowered. I understand CS is very short of buses. Im not sure what Orions are coming to CS once MCH gets their Orion 7s. Im hearing something about some of the 173-226 233-255 group making a come back. Who knows.
116 is Repowered. I been seeing it lately NIS going down Queens Blvd turn onto Union to I-678. It was most likely deadheadeing from the Q58 School Trip
Well, R33 8840, CS is not as short of buses as you think. I just happened to see 647 on the Q32 pull into the bus stop on Queens Blvd and 47 St. Then, someone pulls up right behind 647. For a second, I thought it was a Q60 Green Bus. To my surprise, it was Suburban Coach 618. I hopped on it and rode it to 5th Ave and 41 St. It now possesses CS Stickers. So I assume buses 611-630 have made their way from SE Quens right into the swamps of Flu-shing. So be on the lookout.
#618 Q32
So you mean to tell me and anybody else that you saw bus #618 with CS stickers? Well then, my hunch was right! However, I will not believe it until I hear confirmation from the usual people (Q5Merrick, BIG AL, The TOR-nado, etc.) No offense to you, of course! Thanks for the info!
618 on the Q32...definitely odd, considering 618 is a QV bus.
I rode on it and took a pic of the rear of the bus: 618 Q32. What more could I say than that?
#618 Q32
Here's another 1 to scratch your head about: 620 and 624 were on the Q31 tonight and 108 was on the Q30. QV Stickers on all of the buses.
The Nova Suburbans have also taken over the majority of the local runs as I saw 9250 and 9256 on the Q31.
#108 Q30
#620 Q31
I know for a fact that I saw 110 at 2:54 doing a run on the S52. I thinkit was a school trip (for students only).
110 on SI?????
I doubt that.
Could there be a Q52 or something?
110 has not been on SI in a few years.
yes 110 is in staten island, tomorrow, i will get you all the 100's that yukon has.
105 is NOT REPOWERED. Was spotted on the Q32 route on Wednedsay AM-sorry.
#9339-B1-NOVABUS
105 IS REPOWERED! I rode it recently on the Q32. Also have seen it several times on the Q32.
#105 Q32
While working Bus Eveness Survey on X8 Express Bus @ Perk Slip/Pearl St, saw most of Orions Bus from MJQ Depot are #120,#136,#141.#142,#147,#150,#156,#157,#164 on X90/X92 line & all of the buses are Repowered. BTW #120 is not scrap & still running.
David J.
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Yeah I second seeing #120 around 6PM this evening on Water Street as the X90 - still Alive and Running
Could it be possible that 130 is scrap not 120? 128?
133 is a goner. ;(
#120 x90
yukon also has bus 130
Hmmm....could have sworn that I saw 109 on the Q88 last night. It was westbound on Horace Harding, and I was zipping by in the rain on the LIE. That would lead me to believe that 109 is still at QV. I suppose it's possible that I misread the number, but I remember that it looked pretty clear to me at the time.
Was it repowered? If it was, it could have been 109. Otherwise either 106 OR 108.
#109 Q74
#108 Q88
Actually, I wouldn't know how to tell if it was repowered or not. Anybody wanna be kind enough to educate me on that? :-)
The way to tell if repowered is if there was a metal tail pipe for exhaust sticking out the left rear side of the bus on the roof.
If there is - repowered to DD50 engine
If not - still has Cummins engine it was ordered with.
Thanks for the info. :-)
Look for the new exhuast pipe coming out of the top on the left side. Isn't that neat how they neatly cut that exhuast piece out of the top on those buses? They look as if they came like that until you go inside and sit in the back. The back seat got some height on it. You sit down and your feet don't touch the floor! Oh and some of the Orions when they were first done didn't get the extended exhuast coming out the back.
Am I on a roll or what!!. I just saw 139 on S52. Surprises Surprises
Now someone if anyone could explain this, please do so.
Tonight, around 7:15 I saw Orion V # 110 on the S74.
110 was in Queens.
Why are they coming back to Castleton???
I saw 132 doing a run on the S52/S42. It was running as a Curtis High School, School Trip. It ran as a S42 up until Jersey St. It had a Yukon bus sticker on it. The front and side sign shown a messed up S61 St. George Ferry(blurred out. It had a Blue sign that said S52 on the window instead
This morning, I saw 9624 with a bike rack at Friendship Heights. No other Western Orions seemed to have racks. No picture though, I was running late. 8853 was on the N4 and did not have a rack.
5602 has returned to the 37. It was the bus that was being used when the pick began.
5591 was on the 47. The signs for the southbound 47s say 47 BETHESDA, then say 47 MONTGOMERY MALL. The Montgomery Mall display on the bus this morning was stacked, a first for the Ride-On Orions with the TwinVision signs. On routes such as the 38 and 96, Montgomery Mall is not stacked. I think they need to make it say 47 VIA MONTGOMERY MALL though so people don't think the bus ends there.
The 3:30 T2 was about 10 minutes late. I was a block behind it on River Road this afternoon and saw it turn off Willard. No idea why. Also saw a new Orion V on the 23 this afternoon although I didn't get the number.
In addition, I saw 4309 yesterday morning. Sorry I forgot to post then.
I saw 9624 today on the J4 as well. Is that one now a Western division bus?
I decided to try the B11, the J4 and the 5B today.
Started off on 2004 Orion VI on the 38B, transferred at Rosslyn to the B11, Montgomery Orion V 9621. Took that to Bethesda and got Metro D 9712 on the J4. That was an awesome ride down East West Hwy. Since its a limited stop bus and since the majority of the traffic was heading towards Bethesda and not away, we flew big time and it was like a big roller coaster!! : ) I saw 9624, 9630 and 9709 on J4's heading the other way. 9709 even had "Limited Stop" come across the destination sign. The headsign on 9712 seemed to have a different font for the destination than other Metro D's and E's. It had thinner characters rather than thicker characters.
At College Park, hopped on the Green Line, CAF car 5037 to L'Enfant and then got Orion V 4229 on the 5B.
The B11 isn't anything exciting and only a few people got on at Rosslyn. The rest were people that either would have taken one of the 30's up Wisconsin Ave. or the 42 at Friendship Heights. The J4 was by far my favorite run, especially since it took me through my old neighborhood in Langley Park/Hyattsville/College Park. The 5B was good, too as it only makes a stop at L'Enfant Plaza and Rosslyn. It doesn't have the express fee as the 5A does.
I saw 8710 operating out of Western. I thought that was a Four Mile Run bus. Also saw 9217 out of Western on one of the N routes. On East West Highway, saw 9224 go by with the little frame on the side that used to have the Ride On cards in them. I guess that is still used once in awhile on there or nobody has bothered to take them off.
The rides were good, but exhausting. My g/f came with me and she was fine since she slept most of the time. The benefit she had was that we looked at engagement rings at Tysons Corner and she bought some wedding magazines. I guess I better get cooking on buying that ring!!
Yes, she sounds like one to keep. Your rides do sound like fun. I have to agree about the J4 - it is a good ride. I've only ridden it once with Flxible METRO E 4044. I rode it to Bethesda during the PM rush hour on one of the numerous code red days we had. Even with it's A/C going full blast the ride was a blast as well. I knew it would be fun because I really enjoy the J2 along E-W Highway.
Wayne
I keep telling her that too! I bought her lunch and dessert for putting up with the trip! LOL
I'm going to have to take the J4 again, that was definitely the highlight of the trip. The J2 trips are fun along there as well, even though they stop so much, but a nice trip nonetheless. I saw a ton of them coming into Bethesda while waiting for the J4.
I didn't write down the number right away. It was definately 962 something.
Today, I saw 4345 and 9630 with racks from Western and Montgomery, respectively.
9224's frame is not used for anything as far as I know but no one has taken it off.
The J4s I've seen had the sign in the lower right rolled to LIMITED (yellow background, black text). I saw one which said EXPRESS on its destination sign Wednesday. Does the J4 make stops along Montgomery Avenue in Bethesda? Also, I am surprised you got a Metro-D on the J4. All I've seen there are 1993 Orions.
I don't think the J4 makes any stops in Bethesda other than the station and then later at EW hwy and Connecticut Ave. I was surprised to have a Metro D on that line, too, but was pleasantly surprised. I was expecting it to be a J2 or 3 as they were the only metrobuses entering the station after awhile.
The bus did stop at Wayne Ave. and Sligo Creek Pkwy, but was not supposed to. The driver told the waving passengers that the stop was up the street a bit, but he let about a half dozen people on. There were some confused looks at the stop on University Blvd. and Piney Branch Road when we came flying around the corner and nobody boarded. It looked like some were probably waiting for the UMD shuttle that stops there as well or one of the other routes that comes by there.
I figured the B11 would have a crappy old Orion V on it, but that's ok, it was a decent ride nonetheless. Deadheading to Rosslyn south on Wisconsin Ave, I saw Orion V 9656 and another 96xx heading to VA for their runs up to Medical Center.
I took the 27 to Medical Center a few times during the summer and there were always large numbers of people waiting for the Js on Montgomery Avenue. Of course, no one other than myself would ever take the 27 anywhere...
I wonder why the B11 deadheads on the southbound trip. I have a feeling people would use it if it stopped. Also, who says no one wants to go from Northwest to Rosslyn?
New Columbia Pike-Farragut Square Metrobus Line provides direct service between Columbia Pike corridor and downtown Washington
Service begins September 30
Metrobus will implement a new Columbia Pike-Farragut Square Line (Route 16Y) beginning September 30, making Columbia Pike the first major corridor in Virginia to have through bus service to downtown Washington, DC, restored since Metrorail's Yellow Line opened in 1982.
The 16Y will operate six morning eastbound and six afternoon westbound tirps between Barcroft (Columbia Pike and Four Mile Run Drive) and McPherson Square Metrorail station operating express via the Roosevelt Bridge to bypass traffic on the 14th Street Bridge. The new service, requested by Arlington County, will operate weekdays every 30 minutes into the city from 6:30 to 9 a.m. and back to Arlington every 30 minutes from 4:30 to 7 p.m.
"This new bus service will provide direct connection from Columbia Pike to downtown Washington for the first time in a generation," said Metro Board Chairman Chris Zimmerman. "This new route will bypass the Pentagon transfer station, and the travel time will be comparable to the bus-rail option. It will also help to relieve overcrowding on Metrorail at some peak load points."
The new route provides an attractive express service between the inner Columbia Pike corridor in Arlington and downtown Washington, DC, bypassing the Pentagon. The travel time is expected to be comparable to the bus-rail combination (i.e., bus to Pentagon and a transfer to Metrorail's Blue Line to Farragut West) at about 35 minutes.
The new bus route fare is $1.10, less than the comparable bus-rail combination. Even though the route has boarding restrictions, it does not carry the $2 express fare because it is not based on strict express service guidelines.
Morning trips will leave Columbia Pike and Four Mile Run Drive every 30 minutes from 6:30 to 9 a.m. and will operate via Columbia Pike, Courthouse Road,
Second Street, Washington Boulevard, Pershing Drive, Arlington Boulevard, Roosevelt Bridge, E Street Expressway, E Street, 18th Street and K Street to the terminal stop at K and 15th Streets, NW (McPherson Square). Afternoon trips will leave 15th Street (west) between I (Eye) and K Streets every 30 minutes from 4:30 to 7 p.m. and will operate via 15th Street (west), K Street, 19th Street, E Street, E Street Expressway, Roosevelt Bridge, Arlington Boulevard, Pershing Drive, Washington Boulevard, Columbia Pike to the terminal stop on Four Mile Run Drive, south of Columbia Pike.
QUESTION:
Anyone know what the express service guidelines are?
Emergency Service Plan (ESP) activated for OMNIRIDE BUSES on Friday, Sept. 27
Due to anticipated congestion caused by World Bank/IMF protestors, PRTC has made the decision to activate our Emergency Service Plan (ESP), which is described below. Road closures in Washington DC are expected to begin as early as noon today in the area surrounding the World Bank. As a result, some late evening OmniRide buses may not be able to access some of the regular stops near the World Bank. Please consult your OmniRide schedule or contact Customer Service (at 703-730-6664) to locate an alternate bus stop.
Under the ESP for Friday, 9/27 ALL OmniRide buses WILL ONLY SERVE METRO STATIONS. Eastern Prince William routes (Lake Ridge, Dale City, Montclair, Rt 1/S. Rt 1 and Prince William Metro Direct) will serve the Franconia-Springfield Metro Station and Manassas OmniRide and Manassas Metro Direct buses will serve the West Falls Church Metro Station (no service to the Vienna Metro Station). The ESP is as follows:
1. In the AM, passengers can board buses at their usual stops and times. However, the Capitol Hill (C-1) bus WILL NOT operate on Friday.
2. The regular OmniRide fare WILL BE REQUIRED - $5 cash or $ 3.50 OmniRide token if continuing on Metrorail or $1.75 (cash or Metro Direct token) if Metro station is your final destination.
3. Passengers will be issued a Metro Emergency Transfer. In the AM simply show the transfer at the station for a FREE Metrorail ride. HOLD ON TO THE TRANSFER FOR THE PM COMMUTE. In the evening, station personnel will collect the transfer, for your FREE ride home. OmniRide buses will be waiting at the station to bring you home (to your regular stop). THE REGULAR OMNIRIDE FARE (as stated above) WILL BE REQUIRED. OmniRide staff will be available to direct customers to the appropriate buses.
4. Passengers who use an alternate way to work in the AM will not receive the Emergency Transfer, which makes them eligible for FREE Metrorail trips on that day. If they then chose to use the bus in the PM, they would be responsible for both their Metrorail and OmniRide fares.
5. Midday trips (MX-1 AM, MX-2 PM, MX-3 PM & FX-1 PM) for the Eastern PWC OmniRide routes will only operate to and from Franconia-Springfield Metro station. Pick-ups at the station will be the same as the last scheduled pick up time on their regular schedule. Metro Direct buses will continue to provide all-day service from both stations.
6. Evening pick up service at the Metro Stations for all OmniRide routes will begin at 3 PM.
Local OmniLink and Cross County Connector buses are unaffected and WILL OPERATE ON NORMAL SCHEDULE.
OmniRide customers are advised to expect higher than usual passenger volumes on Metrorail as media reports are advising that commuters use mass transit into Washington on Friday.
Saw a myriad of buses on "The Early Show" during their Children's Fitness segment the other day. Plenty of NYCTA RTSes and Orion Vs rolled by, as did a TNT Transportation Prevost Le Mirage. Also, a few Fishbowls(!) cruised past (NYBS, I assume?), as did some MCI Classics (same assumption?) and an MTA D4500. What a neat treat to start off the day!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Fox and Friends have their morning show with a window facing a major New York Street, but not sure which one. But you see alot of buses rolling by, mainly Queens Surface (I think) CNGs, NYCTA RTSs and Orion
Vs, and some Green Surface Vehicles. Just turn down the volume and wait till they go to the whole shot or outside and you'll see about five per minute, at least.
Hmm...Fox and Friends? Never heard of that; must be new. What a neat thing; I'll have to check out the buses on that! What time?
-F.
If you have cable or satellite, it is on there. They usually start at 6:00 AM and last till 9:00 AM. I know on Direct TV satelite system it is on channel 360, cable varies depending on system and cable company.
Also they showed a bus that got stuck in floodwaters near New Orleans, from the storm that hit. It was mostly underwater, except the top 3 inches of it.
Oh yeah? Wonder what kind of bus it was? New Orleans used to run a fleet of RTSes and Grumman 870s. Before that, they had Flx New Looks and Fishbowls. Go to streetcarmike.com; there is a great page on their buses there. I wonder if they ever preserved any of those?
Also, I plan to make a model of a City of New Orleans Transit Grumman; if anyone should be interested, watch for it on eBay soon.
-F.
In a Detrol LA spot, a Houston Metro NABI is shwon in the background, possibly a trolley bus? I swore I saw wires when it was turning!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
The other day, I rode one of our TA's 91 Gilligs, which still has soft seats. Unfortunately, I ran into an unpleasant surprise; it had all new seats! We have a vandal problem with people who slash the seats open, so these were recovered at the shop. Unfortunately, this makes them VERY uncomfortable as they are not broken in yet!
I don't get it...when the buses were new, the seats were comfy, yet they are hard as a rock when recovered. What causes this, and how long will it be before they are "worn in" again? These are my favorite buses in the fleet, but sadly will be retired after next year. Will this one be a comfy bus before it goes?
-F.
As I was driving to work this morning, no real WMATA sightings of note except 4240 and 9234 of Four Mile Run have no bike racks. But as I got closer to my job, I spotted something very interesting. I spotted was looks to be an ex-New Jersey Transit, numbered 3169. It was in service for a company called ATW, not sure where this company is based. This bus was heading north on the Shirley Highway and it was in practically in all white with the front destination sign covered in white, with the company's name there. I wish I had either seen this bus on my bus trip yesterday or was at a still position and I had my camera so I could take a pic of this thing.
That was a pretty good bus , I miss driving it.
Troy
There are a couple of ex-NJT flxs being used by Community van lines in direct competition with Njt services. I know Trevor and Tony have seen them : anyone else?
Troy
I have yet to see the wide body bus, ex NJT 3538, I keep seeing the narrow body Flxible renumbered to bus #110, what a wack number for a 3000, I will try to get the flett number if I can.
Tony M.
Why would they go down to low 3-digit numbers? Extra buses?
-F.
No community lines, is this company, that is like the dollar vans that go to New York City. They renumbered the Flxibles with 3 digits, instead of 4.
Tony
Oh, I see; thanks!
-Fred
Wow, how neat! Sawyer Bus Sales here in VA has had a fair amount of ex-NJT MC-9s for sale on their lot, along with other MCIs. I wonder why they have not received any Flx Metro transits or suburbans?
-F.
In Addition to 8788-8793 arriving at Short Line, Now Short Line Has Up To 8801 as D4500 Cruisers. Below is a all out roster of the D4000/D4000N/D4500 Delivery......
7401-7418 are D4000 @ Meadowlands
7419 is a D4500 @ Howell
7420-7452 are D4500 @ Meadowlands
7453-7465 are D4500 @ Howell
7466-7468 are D4000 currently awaiting assignment @ Acceptance Lot 7484-7491 are D4000 @ Oradell
7492-7493 are D4000 currently awaiting assignment @ Acceptance Lot
7504 is a D4000 currently missing in action
7505-7541 are D4000 @ Meadowlands (7531-7541 have lavatories)
7542-7566 are D4000 @ Newton Avenue
7567-7617 are D4000 @ Oradell
7618 is a D4000 currently floating around garages
7619-7673 are D4000 @ Wayne
7674-7755 are D4000 @ Oradell
7756-7758 are D4000 @ Egg Harbor
7759 is a D4000 @ Ironbound
7760-7801 is a D4000 @ Egg Harbor (7783-7801 have lavatories)
7810-7811 are D4000 @ Market Street
7812-7821 are D4000 @ Ironbound
7822-7879 are D4000 @ Oradell
7880-7933 are D4000 @ Wayne 2P054769-54788
7934-7940, Numbers Yet To Be Assigned
7941-7980 are D4000 @ Market Street
7981-8023 are D4000 @ Washington Township
8024 is a D4000 @ Egg Harbor
8025 is a D4000 @ Wayne
8026-8031 are D4000 @ Egg Harbor
8032-8041 are D4000 @ Meadowlands
8042-8109 are D4000 @ Ironbound
8110-8112 are D4000 @ Wayne
8113-8115 Yet To Be Delivered
8202-8229 are D4500 @ Howell
8230-8245 are D4500 @ Meadowlands
8246-8268, Numbers Yet To Be Assigned
8269-8291 are D4000 @ Wayne
8292-8304 are D4500 @ Wayne
8305-8322 are D4500 @ Howell
8401-8435 are D4000 @ DeCamp Bus Lines
8436-8450 are D4500 @ DeCamp Bus Lines
8451-8453 are D4000 @ Carefree Lines (all have lavatories)
8454-8503 are D4000 @ Coach USA/Rockland Coaches
8504-8513 are D4000 @ Coach USA/Suburban Transit
8514-8518 are D4000 @ Coach USA/Community Coach
8519-8523 are D4000 @ Coach USA/Olympia Trails
8556-8559 are D4000 @ Trans-Bridge Lines
8563-8627 are D4000 @ Academy Lines
8703 is a D4000 @ Nate's Transportation
8704-8759 are D4000 @ Lakeland
8760-8764 are D4500 @ Lakeland
8788-8801 are D4500 @ Coach USA/Short Line
8961 is a D4000N @ Howell
8971-8990 are D4000 @ Oradell
I will be keeping you posted!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks for the update Trevor. I saw Short Line 8800 this morning on Franklin Turnpike in Ramsey. Unlike some of the other Short Line D4500's in all white, 8800 was in Coach USA colors. Also, saw one of Oradell's high 7400's on the 165 yesterday afternoon.
Saw one of ShortLine's D4500s on 17 Wednesday morning - they use a different striping pattern than Rockland Coaches. A small "Coach USA" logo over the front axle, and larger red and blue stripes down the sides.
I just wanted to clarify:
Buses: 7422 a D4500 is @ Howell
7442 a D4500 is @ Howell
Also 8026-8031 are in Wayne, I saw most of these buses today on the 197 195 and 191 lines.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
So I would assume that buses #7469-7483, #7494-7500, #7802-7809, #8116-8200 (don't know if they exist), #8323-8400, #8524-8555, #8560-8562, #8628-8702, #8765-8787 and #8802-8960 are yet to be assigned? Other then that, thanks as always Trevor!
Keep in mind there will be number gaps. 7401-8990 totals 1590 numbers, but there are onlyu 1360 coaches in the order. Not all the numbers will be used.
The missing 8600s or 8800s will probably be Suburban Trails/Transit. 8524-8555 are likely the remaining Rockland Coaches D4500s.
Reportedly, 7504 may not be seen on the road as often; from what I had understood from looking at past NJT delivery lists, it appears that 7504 may be at Newark Shops, and would appear to be the maintenance training bus for the D4000s. I'd have to double check some of my lists, but I think that's what the story is with 7504.
7501, 7502, & 7503 are training use buses stored at Hilton Garage in Maplewood. Also 8204 is back at NJT no longer roaming around and painted in the NJT scheme and is currently in service for Howell garage as well as 8202.
Tony M.
[Reportedly, 7504 may not be seen on the road as often; from what I had understood from looking at past NJT delivery lists, it appears that 7504 may be at Newark Shops, and would appear to be the maintenance training bus for the D4000s.]
7504 is, of course, the bus that is pictured on many of the NJTransit bus timetables.
7501 and 7503 were in Hilton as Training Buses as of 9/25/02
I was there yesterdayt, I saw 7501 and 7502 there!
On 9/26/02, I saw a Flxible Metro-D with a DDEC 6v92TA engine flying down Montauk Hwy going eastbound. Maybe it was bus #9332 but I did not see the number. I could have been a replacement for one of the three Gilligs.
On 9/27/02, WHAT THE @#$%^&*&! I saw TWO MTA LI Buses pasing by Southampton College. These were both MTA LI Bus Orion 05.501 diesel buses #5xx and #5xx. They were in the 500's because the back of the buses were white and had the DDEC 6v92TA engines! They were on Tuckahoe Rd and made a right turn onto Sunrise Hwy going east. Why were they here? The train was running so no LIRR shuttle necessary! however, this is not uncommon. In the Spring of 1999, I saw MTA LI Bus Gillig #538 turn left off of Sunrise Hwy (NYS 27), down Tuckahoe rd (Southampton College) and a right on Montauk Hwy westbound (NYS 27A) and that was a shuttle. In the Fall of 2000, I saw MTA LI Bus Orion #649 with an ad on the back. I'm not sure if that was a shuttle but these two that I saw today were NOT shuttles because the train was running. I saw those buses at 2:03 (20 minutes after the 1:43 to Southampton). I'm just shock because I thought they were scrapped.
They were. Are you absolutely certain they were 500's? The last time a bus AFAIK was pulled from the reserve fleet was for 09/11, and that was Gillig #544. I wonder if the repowered buses (#579, 581, and 587) are still in existence somewhere?
Yes, I'm sure because the 600's do not have the white backs on them and they have ads on the backs too.
I guess it is possible, in an extreme emergency. I wish I knew the numbers. Too bad they couldn't revive a few of the 5500 series Fishbowls ;o)
[Yes, I'm sure because the 600's do not have the white backs on them]
All of the LI Bus diesel Orion V's came with the black backs. When they were repainted, the repainting was done with white backs, just like the CNG Orion V's. There is no differentiation between the 500's and 600's on the black vs. white back other than whether or not they were repainted.
No, I think what he means is that the 500's did not have the full width ads on the back. I don't think there's a single diesel 600 left without that.....
I'm glad to see the 500s are still out there. :-)
Ever accept dollars or have they before? Thanks, it's just a question of curiousity, BTW?
i think they accepted dollar bills before the introduction of the Metrocard.LiBus used to do it till the Metrocard came thier way.
They take the Susan B's and Sacajewa (may have spelled wrong) Dollar coins as well as pennies.
Yes, before M.T.A. L.I. Bus started with Cubix fareboxes in 1998, there were Duncan boxes which did accept dollar bills.
NYC Transit has never had fareboxes that would accept dollar bills. The current boxes and their immediate predecessors accept/accepted dollar coins.
David
That is, post August 30, 1969 (the first day of exact fare).
David
NYCT Had Fareboxes that took $1 Bills before the MetroCard Fareboxes. Those where made by GFI and those took only $1 Bills/Coins/Tokens. I have saw sometimes saw people placeing $1.25 into the Farebox with a Dollar Bill and a Quarter. Sometimes the farebox on the Dollar Bill Reciver won't let the $1 Bill go in and the driver have to take the $1 Bills
Those GFI fareboxes did NOT take dollar bills. That particular model farebox had an optional bill acceptor, which NYCT did not buy.
NYCT doesn't accept dollar bills on buses and hasn't since the days when Bus Operators made change (which ended in August 1969), which was also the last time NYCT Bus Operators were permitted to handle money. NYCT has, for many years, used the Keene system, which employs a vacuum to remove coins and tokens from the safe beneath the farebox on each bus. The vacuum would rip bills to shreds. Additionally, processing bills costs many times as much as processing coins, yet another reason NYCT doesn't do it with buses (though, of course, it does in the subway).
David
busses here in las vegas nevada have always taken dollar bills...
This brings me to another question - are there any other transit agencies (besides the NJ Transit and contract/private NJ-NYC commuter lines) that have routes that do not require exact fare and the operators make change?
Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District operators make change during the day.
For your info, right now (today), Liberty Lines Express and New York Bus Service's fare boxes accept bills. I believe they are the only privates governed by NYCDOT that accept bills. I believe thay are the optiobal bill accepters.
A couple of minutes ago, I saw a public transportation commercial. They showed mainly the inside of a bus and rail car, but did show the outside of the bus, which both (especially the outside) were an RTS.
It was ok, should have shown the outside of more buses and trains. I don't think they show commuter rail though.
BLX was monitoring SI express service for passenger and running time. To make the time go faster, BLX jotted down the following:
NYU buses #30612,13,14,15,16,18 & 30619-all RTS. What is the NYU Rte 80 South?? ALso, NYU 28 seater, bus # 75103. Color scheme is white with purple stripes. Academy bus #559, TNT Transportation bus #45, Campus Coach #252, Bee Line MCI #916, Martz bus #M641, Liberty Lines #3011, NYCT Hybrid bus #6356, NY Sightseeing double decker buses #71309,20,21,32 & 71335. BLX kindly requests further information. BLX knows where NYU is, but why can't these people ride NYCT buses? Again, Rte 80 South, to where??
[NYU buses #30612,13,14,15,16,18 & 30619-all RTS.]
Judging by the numbers, I venture to guess that these are former Rutgers buses (before HML/Suburban/Coach USA lost the contract to Academy over a year ago). The tell-tale sign would be the side destination signs on the driver's side (in addition to the door side).
Yes they have the driver's side destination sign
the service is provided to bring students to and from their dorms. they or their parents pay a huge amount to go there. now you want them to take public transit back and forth? are you a deputy supr. mr blx?
On Thursday evening i saw Orion 174.Today I saw 182 and 110.For anybody who doesn't know what that 1xx series are, they used to run on the express buses. Now that the MCI's came in the Orion 1xx series are venturing on the local buses. Somebody said they had it on the Q32 one day.
Only 101-172, 611-630 were Express. 173-317, 400-610,631-680 are local seaters. All the 6000 Series Orions are hard seaters.
Bus 174 and 182 are hard seaters assigned to Mother Hale Depot. You may want to double check the numbers.
Mark
I saw the 142 not 182 again doing evening rush hour service.And the 174 was a 164. My mistake.
Saw the premiere of the new CBS series "Hack", filmed entirely here in Philly. Some bus shots got in the background as star David Morse drives around the city in a cab. Saw a couple of Neoplans, particularly an artic, and in a couple of scenes, New Flyer buses just happens to drive by in a couple of shots.
Gotta tune in next week to try to catch some more scenes.
New Flyer.( drools)
Expect a lot more SEPTA buses to make cameo appearances on "Hack", since the show is filmed entirely in Philadelphia.
Can anyone help me out on this one? I've been trying to look for other bus companies like Greyhound that take you places all over the U.S. but have been unsuccessful.Does anyone know of some websites where I can find other companies like Greyhound?
>>> I've been trying to look for other bus companies like Greyhound that take you places all over the U.S. but have been unsuccessful <<<
Sorry, ever since Greyhound gobbled up Trailways it has been the only nationwide bus company. There may be some carriers with regional routes or point to point service, but no alternative to the dog for widespread traveling.
Have you checked out the Green Tortoise ?
Tom
Now available in a special edition update is photos of the NJT ordered Nepolan AN 460 Artic and MCI D4000H Hybrid Electric Coach by our very on John Pappas.
Click Here and follow the proper links!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
OH DUDE THAT IS SO F*****G AWESOME!!!
IT'S ELECTRIC - That MCI is absolutly beautiful - like it's on LSD or something! With that wild paint job and the words "It's Electric", it looks more like a club than a commuter bus - even funkier, on the side, the route sign is green while the destination sign is orange!
Please tell me that bus will be running in service and more like it are on the way! Better yet - repaint all the current and pending D4000/45000's like that!
The Neoplan is pretty cool too, but I tell you that MCI is something else! Suprised no interior pics, though. But whatever - you guys done good!
Great shots, John, and great job as always, Trevor!
I like the Neo's paint scheme - a "milder" version of the one that was tried on the Volvo. Interesting that it's a 2 door... most of them will be transits, and the Volvo transits were 3-door. I guess they thought or realized the extra door was unnecessary.
As for the D4000H... hopefully they weren't playing the Electric Slide at the platform LOL. The engine, for those interested, is the 8.9-liter Cummins ISL, rated at 330 hp (compared to the 370/430 hp 12.7-liter Setroit Series 60 in the main order of Ds). WHY did they waste the 4000 series of numbers, though? That should have been for the next round of suburbans... UNLESS... NJT is planning on ditching the remaining 1989 Flx Metro subs for more MCIs, since D4000s already replaced about 100 Flxs.
Thanks Trevor !! I can't wait to get behind the wheel of that Neoplan. It's on!!!!!!!!!!!
Troy
Those Mci's are sooooo HOT! I hope that he can get some over here at the Meadowlands, as for the Neoplans, they are hot toooo, Its about time they start to make one for NJT and start to demo it, Those Volvos are now heading for the home strech, home streach to NIMCO!
Tony
Thanks Trevor,
Those babies are awesome. I think Neoplan's paint scheme is pretty cool.
Wayne
I agree. The MCI's paint scheme looks a little wild.
Whoa, the Neoplan looks GREAT in white, and the MCI looks like an awesome bus. Where were these pics taken, and is this convention in the Tri State area? I'd love to look at all the exhibits. Awesome Pics!! You've just made my morning!
It said the convention was in Las Vegas.
Awww, half a country away....
Makes me wish I still lived in Vegas! Would have loved to have seen that show.
Awesome photos, as usual. Such a shame that we in Philadelphia/South Jersey will never get to see an artic down here on, say, the 400 or 403 (during the holidays, they could use an artic or two) or even on a couple of the Egg Harbor routes during the summer (507/AC to Ocean City and 552/AC to Cape May come to mind).
Not to take this thread too far off topic, but a couple thought I wanted to pass along...
I was wondering if John happened to notice SEPTA's new DE40LF on display while in Vegas. If you hadn't heard, SEPTA is about to take delivery of 12 New Flyer DE40LF hybrids. The prototype (5601) will be on display in Center City Philadelphia on 12 St south of Arch (near the Convention Center and the Mariott). Oddly enough, the hybrids will be numbered 5601-5612, with the 3rd batch of D40LF diesels to be numbered 5613-5712 (SEPTA's rocket scientists have struck once again). The DE40LFs will be assigned to Southern Depot (don't be shocked to see them regularly on the 17); the 5613-5712 series D40LF will see about 75-85 buses sent to Midvale with the rest going to Frontier for use on their 124/125 runs.
Speaking of SEPTA, one of my reliable contacts at 1234 Market (SEPTA HQ) reports that we're getting 15 MCI D4500s, which will be assigned to Red Arrow and used on peak hour 104 and 124/125 runs. The 124/125 will eventually be restructured to have Red Arrow trips operate from Center City to Gulph Mills and points north (bypassing Wissahickon Loop) and Frontier trips originate/terminate as Wissahickon Loop to Gulph Mills and points north.
On a somewhat further trip off topic, someone at one of my Yahoo Groups (chicagolandtransitforum) posted some cool pics of Chicago Transit Authority's new NABI 60-ft low floors. NABI completely redesigned the front exterior of the bus (it looks similar to the New Flyer Invero than it does a conventional NABI). Looks great, IMHO (plus, CTA is getting the Luminator Horizon LED signs, the same signs on NJT's newest buses). The buses, BTW, will be numbered in the 7500 series and will replace the ancient MANs (both CTA bought and second-hand Seattle units).
In any case, here's hoping that someone posts a ton of pics from the APTA Expo. I'd imagine it would be a bus nut's dream come true...
It didn't seem so exciting to me...Whatever floats your boat.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND OR WHAT!? Those buses look SOOOO awesome!They're simply amazing!Damnit I cant wait till they start running those buses on the PABT routes for testing.It's gonna be wicked cool!
If you say that those 2 buses arent all that great then you are really crazy.
*Looks at pics agaain*
OMG!!!!!! Ha haaaa!!
I didn't realize it until now!!!! Geez, thanks girlfriend!! ;-)
quit it.i know you're only being sarcastic.Maybe you'll come to like them better when they start running on the NJT routes.
Ok, I'm sure they will get the recognition they deserve when the arrive on NJT routes. Any ida how old the oldest rolling stock is for the NJT bus fleet? I don't know much about it.
buses in the active fleet are:
- 1982-84 MCI MC-9 (only a handful)
- 1986 Volvo B10M transit artic
- 1986 Volvo B10M suburban artic (25 suburbans retired already)
- 1987 MCI MC-9 (way less than the 415 delivered)
- 1989 Flx Metro suburbans (100 o the 384 retired)
- 1989 Flx Metro transit
- 1991 Flx Metro transit CNG
- 1994 Dlx Metro transit
- 1994 Flx Metro suburban
- 1995-96 Nova RTS transit
- 1999-2000 MCI 102D3 CNG
- 1999-2000 Nova RTS transit
- 2000-02 MCI D4000/D4500
Wow. In contrast, the MTA really scrapped their oldest fleets rather quickly. I wonder if it's due to the deferred maintenance polices of yore...
damn that look nice i see that it also have a rear door to
DAMN! Those buses look awwwwsome! The MCI D4000H looks wicked! That paint will definitely get alot of heads turning and attention. I smell more piggy-backed orders from other TAs following up NJT. MTA NYC are you thinking alternative fuel testing for MCIs?
The Neoplans look great. The paint scheme kind of resembles their newest electric-diesel ALP-46 trains which the complete order will arrive soon. The passengers are really going to enjoy the amenties of that bus including the drivers. I'm going to come down their again this late fall or early winter or perhaps earlier if something happens good on my vacation. I can't wait to go riding, smell, hear and see all these wounderful buses from NJT, MTA, Private Carriers and others.
Again, that paint scheme on the MCI is dope. I can see the public and especially the young generation turning their heads. I agree with that one responder. At least have the remaining last batch of D4000s D4501s and Ns have that paint scheme. It would be even more sweeter that MCI is demoing and Flxible METRO Standard or low floor completely upgrade in that paint scheme. Ofcourse, you can definantly count me in of that Flxible METRO petetion. Although, I agree with that one guy that we all need to request MCI to do a market analysis to all TAs. Let's not give up. Keep hope alive!!
Have a great day you all!
-Ronnie
Flxible METRO nut Go METRO!!!
The Neoplan looks nice. I wonder what the interior looks like. Was this prototype a Transit, or a Suburban model?
As far as the MCI goes, what garage will they be based out of? I know the CNG's are out of Howell, The CNG Flxibles are out of Hamilton, with no special buses out of the South Jersey garages. Will it be the Meadowlands?
Okay, nobody asked this question:
Are these the right numbers for these buses or they are just demos and willbe renumbered?
Ok, someone has now snubbed the @transitalk.org e-mail tag to send out viruses.
If you RECIEVE a e-mail from a @transitalk.org address, DO NOT OPEN IT. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE
I have TransiTALK setup to were you can only e-mail TO @transitalk.org address. NO ONE can e-mail from. So if you recieve it, DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE SOMEONE IS USING TRANSIT RELATED E-MAIL ADDYS AS VIRUS DELIVERY METHODS!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I realize many of you guys have already met each other. Are any of you planning to meet at the festival tomorrow?
Wayne
I'd like to meet some of the posters out there. More than likely I'll be wearing a blue or green football jersey with the #74 on it.
Troy
I was wondering what kind of buses operate on the NJT # 126 line on Sunday. I was thinking about taking PATH to Hoboken and then bus back to PABT. I understand the fare is $2.10.
This NJT Festival, is it like BusFest for MTA?
Usually the 126 uses the older novas out of meadowlands on the weekends unless Tony is out there then you will see a flx metro-b on the line. The fare is $2.10.
Troy
Is anyone working that line tomorrow?
Let me know if yes and what times leave Hoboken and PABT.
Thanks
They run every 1/2 hr on the hour and half hour. There might be delays due to the festival.
You Got it Troy,
That's right baby! FLX Metro all the way! Unfortunately, Tomarrow I am going to the festival, so I won't be driving my beloved 3274......my favorite Flx. So tomarrow will be most likely all nova, I hope 2636 will be on display, for the rehabbed novas! Guys I will see ya there, I will be reppin NJT and the Meadowlands Garage. I will have my NJT hat on...make sure you say wassup.
Tony M.
Meadowands Garage.
[So tomarrow will be most likely all nova]
It looked like a female bus operator had 3111 on the 126 during the Hoboken Festival today. Didn't really see any other buses on the 126.
On a sunday schedule there are only 2 buses on the line.
Troy
Yup there are only 2 buses, on the 126 during the day. 3111 is a mean sounding bus, I love the crap out of that one, hey what street was the bus, running on during the detour, the other bus was 2773. A Novabus, Did anybody catch 2636, it looks sooo nice, It was on the 85 line.
Tony M.
I sure did, and I got a pic of it...it's an ok pic, but I got one...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Did you get the interior? It is nica on that bus! But my friend drove it, he claims it is slower than the old novas, I will have to take a test drive!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Sorry, Tony, just the exteriors...I will ride it one day...
I saw a bus on the 85 line from the rear from a distance, and noticed the rear route # sign seemed much brighter than usual. Has this bus been rehabbed and fitted with a new rear route # sign? Will they be doing this to all the older Nova RTS's?
That was probably 2636 which has been rehabbed.
Troy
Yes 2636, that is a rehabbed bus, NJT is starting to rehab all the 95 novas, Lord knows they need them...........As of right now, 2636 is the first and only rehabbed nova! 2620 is on the way as well. then the whole fleet. they have new brightening orange destination signs, and new driver seats, passenger seats, pretty much it has been spruced up to something like the nova b's.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Rode on 3111 from PABT. That bus was late. There was no working A/C on the bus and I was hot. SRO on that bus b/c of the delay.
I think there were 3 other Bustalkers on that bus - one in orange shirt, other with a button down shirt and glasses, with a hat, and then another man with a jacket on.
I miss the Flxibles in NYC, and 3111 ran well, even though no A/C. Also, the seats on this suburban are worn, like the 4873-4888 in NYC MTA.
There was a big delay going to PATH, so after hearing the other 3 people asking each other if they wanted to walk it and they said no - give it like 10 more minutes, I decided to disembark, and walk along Washington Street, where I got food. Then I walked to Hoboken terminal, seeing the NJT equipment, including the D4000 and D4500s, and lucky #7777 and #8321 I believe. I also saw a 1900 Flxible, and older GM 45XX series, the police Flxible, and the Trolley. It was nice, but could have been more buses.
It was a nice day. I then took PATH to 33rd, at the Railfan Window.
Well? I've ridden both plenty of times and to be honest, I haven't made much of a distinction. Remember, you may include other comparisons with MCI's, or with different companies or even different companies using 'em like Queens Surface or Triboro. It may differ in those ways as well.
Orions seem to have louder engines, due to a thinner engine compartment. Orion CNG's can be loud. I thought the Cummins ones were loud, but the 300s with the Series 50 are real loud and clanky.
Try the NJT RTS's. Their Cummins engines are loud, especially when idling in traffic, also you really hear them when you`re inside the bus. I have no qualms with the TA's RTS series 50 engines. They tend to purr like kittycats.
When idling the NJT RTS's can be a bit loud (it's like loud hum), but acceleration noise is low. I still think Orions with the Series 50 are the loudest.
RTS's with the series 50 are quieter. I think this can be attributed to the poorly insulated engine compartment in Orions.
Very true; Gilligs with a Series 50 are very loud, perhaps due to a thim engine compartment wall or less insulation, much like the Orion. And the RTSes I rode in Detroit with the same engine were very quiet and smooth; I was quite impressed with those.
-Fred
Series 50 in septa New flyer when A/c is on is very loud idling and than as soon as a press of the accelrator it gets quiet weird how buses with simar engines sound so different.
Now if you really want to hear some LOUD bus engines, check out SEPTA's NABI's. You can hear those suckers from a couple blocks away. Coming a close second are the Eldorados. A lot of noise from a little bus. They're in stark comparison to the New Flyers, and Neoplans, which tend to run at a low purr.
nabi's have a very load engine.r there any other TA that has a engine that sounds like that.
AC Transit has 72 1997 NABI 416 with DDC Series 50 engine and an Allison B400 transmission....To me, they sound very good, I always listen 2941, one of my sound clips...
2941
2966
Cummins M11 and Allison B400 NABI 416, 1998 AC Transit 3006
3006
Cummins ISM and Allison B500 NABI 40LFW, 2000 AC Transit 4008
4008
Stephen
You can have that new trash. I'll take a BLITZ with the 2 speed hydraulic.
Anyone have or know the traffic layout of the PABT? A map they can post or sent by email? I rode NJT buses out of there many times and it seems pretty interesting.
Sorry for the late notice
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Why is it that whenever I go to one of these sessions, no one is there?
Did you just try to go there at the time you posted (12:30 on Sunday afternoon)? It starts at about 7:30 or 8 on Saturday night and lasts as long as people stay up. I left at about 11 at which point I believe there were about 2 people left in the room.
Yeah, I tried to log in about a minute or so before I posted that message. Not a person in sight. Care to tell us how many people those sessions pull and why you hold sessions the way you do? I mean, it seems to be on a random basis.
They are held on Saturday nights whenever I or one of the operators is able to attend. When I am out of town or have other commitments, a week might go without a chat but it is attempted to be a weekly event on Saturday night. These turn quite a good number and it is a nice change of pace to be able to talk in real time about the issues on SubTalk and BusTalk.
BLX asks, why no posting of the accident yesterday afternoon on a test run. It killed the train operator and will add months and millions to the opening of this airport train/monorail. Some dumb consultant/engineer types decided to load up the test train with concrete blocks to simulate the wieght of people. The train only had a plywood floor. Train derails, all the concrete blcoks move forward and crush t/o. He was only 23 years old. Rest in peace my brother, BLX has you in his thoughts.
Ok What does this have to do wit buses??
-AcelaExpress2005
It's all mass transit.
There are many postings on this subject on the SubTalk side of the board.
David
>>> BLX asks, why no posting of the accident yesterday afternoon on a test run. It killed the train operator and will add months and millions to the opening of this airport train/monorail <<<
And we ask BLX, why would it be posted on Bus Talk? :-)
Tom
I'm sorry the T/O died and it is a disaster we don't need right now which will put a dent in the initial operations of the airtrain, however this is bustalk. That's why there were no postings. Check subtalk for all the gossip on this latest mishap.
BIG AL
Sorry to hear about accident
I remember driving a test bus loaded with sandbags to simulate a laoded bus . Bus # 901 i think back around 96
BLX doesn't care what type of public transportation this man was operating. He died in the prime of his life. Show some sensitivity. What does this have to do with buses? Airtrain hooks up with the LIRR. Downtown Jamaica is a hub of buses (NYCT, Green, Queens Surface, JBI, LIBus) & subways. When this system was being proposed, local residents wanted a stop or two along the Van Wyck Expressway portion of the route. People living by the airtrain must rely on buses or gypsy cabs/vans to get them to the subway. The vans started because local bus service sucked.They provided an alternative. Even when the free bus/subway metrocard deal was introduced, the vans still kept their customers. Federal money was used on the airtrain which will service mostly people coming from Manhattan. That's if they take it. This isn't a one ride deal, you must transfer. Remember the train to the plane? Bottom line is this, by adding stops along the route, people would have had an alternative to using gypsy vans/car service and or some of the private bus companies that make money no matter how bad (Green) their service is. But BLX hates to say it, the mix of local residents (who happen to be minority) and airport workers with yuppies from Manhattan was something politicians didn't want. Let them stay with the buses, we don't want to scare off the Wall Street/Dot com crowd. So here was a chance to provide another service to the people, but it's not going to be. BLX speaks for the people, while you sit comfortably in your SUV (Saudi Utility Vehicle). As BLX said earlier, R.I.P. fellow transit worker!
Very well said BLX. This young man died doing something that a lot of posters on bustalk would jump at if given the opportunity ( including myself ) . To put a word of sypathy on bustalk would not have hurt and it shows solidarity between the two sites. I know I'm guilty for not saying it sooner but rest in peace young fella.
Troy
I just learned this poor guy's child's mother works with me. Now i know why she ran out of work Friday afternoon.
Wrong forum. Put it in Subtalk, please.
May the T/O rest in peace. It's unfortunate that he didn't even have the protection of the cab. They should not have allowed such a test condition. Didn't it ever occur to someone that load shifting may occur if the train struck something? There are clearly some process failure here.
AEM7
My GF got her nails done at Walt Whitman Mall on Saturday(took 2 hours)-it gave me a chance to do some bus observations at Wat Whitman Mall. Here is what i saw:
LIBUS:
135(orion V-Cng)
317(orion V-CNG)
Suffolk:
9613,9614,9616,9631(Gillig)
9911,9914,9916,9917(Orion V)
9338,9342(Flixible)
HART:
301(Orion 1)
501(Gillig)
I dont understand something. If HART only runs maybe 3 buses or so on Saturday, would it not be eaiser to operate only Gillig buses so each route has accesibility. I dont believe that #301 is accesible to the handicapped. Any fan of Suffolk Transit or HART, this is the place to be Monday through Saturday.
Just on Saturday Suffolk Transit took three of the best buses from my yard for the Womens "Freedom Train" against breast cancer to shuttle them back n' forth to the hospital near by in Port Jefferson. The Buses were of course Orions and their numbers were:
9933, 9935, 9938.
My guess is that these are the best running ones we have. 9935 is the usually the S-61 bus but they replaced that with Gillig #8730 which blew an air bag in the rear on it's way to Patchogue. Shoot!
Today I rode the QM1A both ways and I happin to also had 507 both ways too. Going it was fine but going back to Queens took forever to just get to queens. The driver was to do 5:30 Run from North Shore Towers and he call up the garage that he can't make the 5:30.
The 5:30 from NST left a bit late and they send anouther driver and bus to cover that trip and it had 12 People on it. And the bus was RTS #368.
I don't understand why they can't just take a Orion V CNG Suburban out instead of placeing a Local Bus to cover a Express Run? Or that bus was the closest to NST? It makes sence to just place a Orion V CNG Suburban to replace 507 on the 5:30 since they have plenty of Orion V CNG Suburbans not being used
Maybe the driver had preference of taking 368 instead of a 500 series Onion Suburban? If it were me, I'd take the RTS over the Onion anyday.
#384 QM1
I don't know how much pull a driver has in picking out his own bus at QSC. But the logical thing to do is to run the newest stuff when not too many buses are required for service. Perhaps the driver of 368 was finishing his work day (I think they run those hard seaters on the Rikers Island route) and he was radioed to get into the city quickly to cover the late express trip. Saying that, if I were a bus operator, I would always beg for a diesel bus no matter how old and beat up it is. I do not trust natural gas vehicles period. I have this fear that it will blow up in case of a collision! I know it probably won't happen, but we all have certain fears in our heads!