I woke up at 3:45 in the morning Tuesday so I could be home in time to go to Philly with the fam, who wanted to leave at 6:30, of course when I get to Lancaster, they are all still knocked out sleeping, so we don't leave until 8:30 or so, but it's cool. My mission that day of course, was to visit family and friends, but mainly to pay a visit to 1234 and put in an application to work at SEPTA. The adventure begins at 40th and Spruce where my aunt had a dentist appointment at Penn's dental school, while she's being treated, I'm walking up 40th Street up to Market finding a place that sold the SEPTA Day Pass, but then after all the walking up to Market and back, I finally realize that the closest place to get one is 30th Street Station ticket booth. So I walk back up to Market, and catch the MFL there and catch 1109, the lead car, hoping to snag a railfan seat for the short ride, but no. I get to 30th Street, visit the post office to cash a money order, and come out to see my favorite New Flyer (only because it's the only one I've rode on), 5437 on the 44 trying to turn onto Market street, but somehow the operator couldn't make the turn initially so he backs up and then he's able to make the turn after blowing the horn to get a car to move a little. I go back to the MFL, again hoping to snag the railfan seat to no avail, I must say, as much as I miss my almond joys, I thanked God for the M4's excellent air conditioner. This consist was interesting, -I was on 1212, and I forget all the cars that were in the consist, but at least four of them contained the numbers 1, and 2, (I know for sure 1111-1112, and 1211-1212). I get to 13th street, walked to the exit, and didn't even realize I was at 1234 until I saw PCC 2733 lookin all good. I go to the sixth floor, where I had been told by others to pick the application, but the sent me to the security desk. I go back down there only for the guy to tell me, "We're out til Monday" oh damn!! A whole day wasted-not I visited the Transit Museum Store, spent most of my time there looking at the Road To Upper Darby book, (get it if you're an almond joy fan-the most tech data I've seen on them since the old SEPTA fact sheets or Delaware Valley Rails) I'm a little disappointed about the application, but what the hell I have a day pass, you know what that means...I walk up the street trying to make up my mind where to start, carefully observing everything over 30 feet in length. I saw a couple of NJT Metro-B's, Metro-D 3711, 79XX, and 8080, and a few more of the new D4000's, D40LF 5600 on the 17 heading to Penns Landing, 5436 with it's Spree wrap and special on the destination sign with a paper Spree sign in the windshield. I finally decide I'm gonna get me a 460, and I just miss one, but I wait not even 5 minutes before 7121 pulls up on the 33 going to Penn's Landing, figuring if I'm lucky I could catch 5600 there. Keeping in mind that even when I lived in Philly, I always took MFL to Penns Landing, so I was a little thrown off on where to get off, I got off on the viaduct and walked over on Front Street. In the distance I see a D40LF and a Transliner AN440 laying over, I get closer, I see numbers and the D40LF is none other than 5600! I'm gonna get this sucka-not, pulls off when I'm about 10 steps away, I should have ran for it. The Neoplan that was there was 3111, which was on the 5, I figure what the hell and took that. Saw some of the construction for the 15 trolley restoration, Eldorado 4561 with a paper sign for the 89. For an old soldier, 3111's AC was pretty good although there was some condenser leakage on the seat across from me. Took the 5 all the way to Frankford Terminal and the bus doesn't even get a half load the entire trip (around 1:00-1:30).
I go up to the MFL platform, checking out some of the construction, but there's a train about to leave so I hop on it, hoping to get my railfan seat, the dude that was there got off at Church I think, the dude he was with then took that seat and I'm thinking he's not going to be on much longer we can wait this out, but I changed my mind, and got off at Erie-Torresdale, crossed over to catch the train going back to FT. the train stops as I come off the crossover and I get on 1025, last in this consist. We're back at FT and I'm on the platform waiting for the next westbound train, and observing some of the construction, including the new El alignment (complete with concrete bents, gonna look really nice when it's finally done) when I hear the announcement behind me, "69th Street Train making all stops", and the destination sign confirms it, so back on 1025 I go-straight to the empty railfan seat, yes!!! Of course this was going to be a ride that I haven't taken since I was 10 standing at the Almond Joy's end door with the wind hitting me in the face-an end to end ride, and like the others in the fleet, 1025 was ice cold. Once at 69th, I try to make up my mind, I could take the 108 and meet up with the fam back in Southwest, or I could take the 65 and get on a 460, but I settle on NABI 5035, on the 21, which must have been in an accident, the front pillar had a bolt holding it on and the sign cavitiy area on the passenger side looked pretty banged up as well. 5035 is nice and cold, and it fills up pretty quickly, but I still manage to get a seat. Nothing special about this ride, but once I'm back in Center City, I decide to get off at 13th to walk back to 1234 and see if the guy before was BS'ing me, I ask the lady for an application, but word for word, "we're out til Monday" dammit!! oh well, it was worth a shot.
So back to 13th Street station, I go to the Subway-Surface lines, and wait for the 36, I never realized how much usage the tunnel gets, one right after the other, 11, 10, 34, 13, then my 36...9059, one of the first LRV's with the solid windows, and coincidentally the trolley I rode on my last trip to Philly back in May. I saw at least 2 other LRV's with the solid windows, 9022 on the 11, and 905X on the 13. Got off to catch the 36 shuttle bus at 49th & Woodland, the first one I didn't even bother to try to get on, a bunch of people from the trolley before us and everyone on our trolley tried to crowd on, I just waited, and 3178 pulls up, I ride to 57th and walk over. The one thing SEPTA didn't do right on my travels that day, was give clear info on the route of the 36 shuttle, I'm sure I read it somewhere before online, but at that point I had completely forgotten whatever it was. I hung out with the fam for a while, then it was time to leave to go back to Lancaster. 9101 on the 11 takes me to 30th street, where I take a pretty boring ride on Amtrak's keystone train in the usual G-ride (Genesis P42)and 3 amfleet consist that has become standard on that line. A fun day all in all, I didn't stop to eat until I got back to my Aunt's house. I'll be back Monday to visit 1234 bright and early to fill out that application, then I have a date with the B-IV's, and maybe I'll take another stab at getting 5600, and I'll probably visit NJT and PATCO as well. Thanks for reading and I hope this wasn't too long!
Darnell
The planned trip includes some traveling under & above the ground, but does include LI Bus #33 from Far Rockaway to Long Beach.
If you would like to see how SubTalkers enjoy themselves, join us at 6 PM at the head end of the center platform at Jay Street.
Mr t__:^)
It's been a long time since my last post of bus sound in Bustalk. Anyway, I got a few sounds mostly from transits in California.
File: 1514
Model: Flxible Metro
Year: 1982
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
Transmission: Allison V731
Authority: Monterey Salinas Transit
Route: 21 - Monterey to Salinas
Recording location: Monterey to Salinas
Format: Real Player
Size: 3.89MB
Duration: 16:17.0
File: 4590
Model: Flyer D901
Year: 1984
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
Transmission: Allison HT747
Authority: San Francisco Muni
Route: 71 - Noriega to Downtown SF
Recording location: Noriega to Downtown SF
Format: Real Player
Size: 3.59MB
Duration: 14:59.0
File: 1506
Model: Gillig Phantom
Year: 1982
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
Transmission: Allison HT747
Authority: AC Transit
Route: 83 - South Hayward Bart to Hayward Bart
Recording location: South Hayward Bart to Gillig Corporation
Format: Real Player
Size: 3.14MB
Duration: 13:03.9
File: 1031
Model: Gillig Low Floor
Year: 2001
Engine: Cummins ISL
Transmission: Voith D864.3
Authority: VTA
Route: 81 - East San Jose to Valco Park
Recording location: Downtown San Jose to Valco Park
Format: Real Player
Size: 5.24MB
Duration: 21:58.8
File: 4013
Model: NABI 40LFW
Year: 2000
Engine: Cummins ISM
Transmission: Allison B500
Authority: AC Transit
Route: 217 - Milpitas Alder Light Rail to Fremont Bart
Recording location: Great Mall to Fremont Bart
Format: Real Player
Size: 4.92MB
Duration: 20:39.0
File: 8184
Model: Neoplan AN440
Year: 2000
Engine: Cummins ISM
Transmission: Allison B500
Authority: Muni
Route: 18 - Stonestown to Legend of Honor
Recording location: Stonestown to Legend of Honor
Format: Real Player
Size: 4.03MB
Duration: 16:52.3
File: 2382
Model: New Flyer D60HF
Year: 1999
Engine: Cummins M11
Transmission: Allison B500
Authority: Seattle Metro King County
Route: 5 - Northgate to Downtown Seattle
Recording location: Northgate to Downtown Seattle
Format: Real Player
Size: 5.16MB
Duration: 21:38.4
File: 8845
Model: TMC RTS T80-206
Year: 1988
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
Transmission: Allison V731
Authority: VTA
Route: 58 - West Valley College to Alviso
Recording location: San Jose Kiely/Homestead to Baypointe Light Rail
Size: 3.94MB
Duration: 16:30:0
For more bus sounds, please come and visit us in NA Transit.com.
Enjoy,
Stephen Lam
COOL SOUNDS! I like the Flyer sound as well as the Neoplan Bus sound!
Okay, I just checked out the cleanairbus.tripod.com page and in the NYCT bus roster page has Orion 05.501 buses #203 and #310-311 scrapped for parts. Bus 3203 due to a fire. My question....is this true? That would make it FOUR scrapped Orions...#122, #203 and #310-311. I'll be in Queens tomorrow to try to follow up on #310-311 but geez!
Well, now that we established the bus storage lots in and around Washington D.C., what buses IF ANY have been scrapped from the fleet? Are the Flxible Metro-B buses still running? In New Jersey, they have sold 104 of their 396 buses at New Jersey Transit to the NIMCO scrap yard. So, that kinda got me thinking, is WMATA doing the same? Also, there has been a big debate about this...I've asked several people this question and I got various answers. Are the Orion 05.501 buses #9600-9660, #4200-4412 and #2100-2231 have DD50 series engines or Cummins engines. I think it's DD50 but having a conversation with one of my friends...he thinks they are Cummins. So, once and for all...what's the answer to that question? I will not bring that question up again...thanks in advance!
The oldest of WMATA's Flxible Metro B's are very much in service. On weekdays (especially duirng rush hour) it's easy to find them if you're at the hot spots like Silver Spring, Pentagon or downtown. The later Metro B's are even easier to find.
WMATA's 1992 Orion 05.501's have the DD 6V92TA engine, although I believe at least one was repowered with the DD Series 50.
All of their other Orions (except the Orion II) have the DD Series 50 engine (including the 3900 series 30 footers).
Wayne
Thanks very much, that what I thought to about the Orions.
9652 is outfitted with a Cummins 8.3 engine. I forgot about those decrepid Orion IIs. 9660 and 9659 have their tailpipes at the bottom instead of the top like the others.
For those of you who do not know, there is a Nova Bus Production List on Alan Toronto Bus Page via www.natransit.com Just go to "our links" and you will see under Canada bus pages...Alan's Toronto Bus page (or something like that). Find Nova Bus and you will see it. It has all the NYCT Nova Buses from #8750-9699 and then again from #4900-5249. Plus other companies across the country as well. So, enjoy it and hopefully it will save some question being posted on BT!
In the New Flyer section of the site, there is a mention of the H60LF. Could that bus be the next big craze? Speaking of hybrids, NJT bought some Hybrid MCI cruisers. What is their status, and is the MTA interested in trying them out?
The first MCI hybrid will be shown at the APTA Expo in September in MCI's booth prior to its delivery in NJ.
See MCI's press release by clicking here
I was under the impression that the Jackie Gleason Depot is all CNG. The low Flyers, CNG Orions, and CNG RTS's in the 8500 series. Yesterday, I saw not one but two RTS buses on the B61 in the 8400 series. I believe they had the Gleason decal. Did Gleason receive regular deisel buses? Did the 8400s get converted to CNG? Were they always CNG, along with the 8500s out of Gleason?
I don't believe you have your facts right. When I drove out of Gleason years ago, there was only one prototype RTS CNG, and I believe that was fleet number 8567. The rest were (are?) diesel.
At the time, the depot was mostly RTS that varied with RTS #1230 through the 8500 series, with a few Orion CNG's.
Gleason currently operates 190 New Flyer C40LFs and 32 Orion Vs that operate on CNG. However, the depot is not entirely CNG. There are a substantial number of diesel RTSs there.
David
Up until 1998 I lived and went to school in Gleason territory. I remember seeing 8567 on the B35 a number of times. Also i remember riding 8399 on the B63 and B35 lines. I think Gleason had 2 CNG's and 1 CNG/Diesel bus which was 8398.
Before 8398 and 8399 went to Gleason I believe they were kept at Ulmer Park but I'm not all that sure. Anyone have any other info?
Tony from Flushing
I remember seeing 8397 a few years ago in Manhattan - I think on 34th Street?? - That was the ex-Methanol bus that was converted to Hybrid-electric.
8398 and 8399 were certainly never assigned to Ulmer Park, which has no CNG fueling facilities.
David
Jackie Gleason is not 100% CNG yet, Those 8400 & 8500 series buses have been there for years, and no they are not CNG, they are regular diesel buses. Gleason did had 3 RTS CNG buses, Bus #'s 8397, 8398, & 8567, But they were sold to Command Bus Facility.
Close...8399, not 8397 (which was built as a methanol bus and did not run in Brooklyn -- heck, it barely ran ANYwhere!).
David
there are about 50 diesel rts at gleason at this time. also 8398,99 and 8567 are now owned and operated by command buses. the bus #`s are 4975,76,and 77 i do believe.
Those buses are owned by NYCDOT and operated by Command Bus. If Command still operates its six 1984 RTSs (350-series) (and I think it does), those are the only buses it owns.
David
They havent used the 1984 GMC RTS buses for some time now. They were transferred to VARSITY which renumbered and used only two of them. Right now they are stored in VARSITY's garage near COMMAND.
Peace,
Kevin
Thanks for the update. With those buses gone (although Varsity's a subsidiary of Command), ALL of Command's buses are owned by NYCDOT.
David
I haven't seen 8849 lately in service and I think this bus might have been a victim of cannibalism. I last saw this bus in Landover over a year ago, being stripped and used for spare parts. I hope they got this bus back together and put it back in service.
what is so special about 8849?
Well number one it is a Flxible and also it was a rehabbed one, one of the last ones to be rehabbed before the new paint scheme was applied. Also I don't think this bus was ready for retirement or for spare parts. If any of the Flxibles were to be used for spare parts, one would have been 8736 which was one of Southeast's Flxibles and when I last rode it, it was in really bad shape.
Based on the information previously posted on various NYC bus sites, the Green Lines 5500's are rejected WMATA buses. My question is this, Why did WMATA reject these buses?
Actually these buses weren't "rejected." Basically what happened was that WMATA came short on funding for these buses which I believe were part of a larger order. WMATA received the first part of the order. Because WMATA couldn't afford the latter part of the order, NYC DOT was offered a good deal to purchase them.
...and NYCDOT systems are not the only places where the deferred WMATA Orions can be found.
Of course, there are a handul in Coach USA colors working various shuttle routes in NYC. I'd have the say the strangest place I ever found one was at Phoenix (AZ) Sky Harbor International Airport. I knew this was a strange place to find an Orion V period, and upon closer inspection, I discovered telltale WMATA specs. Anyone else find WMATA-intended Orions in weird places? I think there were 50 in total.
We have a Orion at the Coach USA Mahwah Garage signed up for use on the Columbia University Shuttle, but its really a Paramus Garage Bus.
Also there is Orion 5s at the Coach USA Elizabeth Garage (Olympia Trails) for use in the Airport. I heard there is some at the Philadelphia Airport and some made it down south as far as New Orleans!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
NO, 50 was just the quantity that nycDOT purchased. A few were at QSC before the CNG order was filled.
I am not sure if they were WMATA rejects, but Fairfax Connector's first batch of Orions have the WMATA rules on them, they are the same rules as all buses would have, but these actually have the exact ones found on WMATA buses. Their next group, similiar to the WMATA 2100-2200's, were more of a piggyback order, along with PRTC.
Question: Due to interoffice roumers, i've been forced to ask " Is Red and Tan line currently on strike?"
Who ever told you that shit is on crack, Our contract isn't up until next year, why would we be on strike?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches (Red & Tan Lines) Operator
www.transitalk.org
LOL!
100th Street will not open on September 8th of this year as previously thought, unless a majic fairy taps the land of which 100th sits on and a garage completely done majically appears. It looks like its back to early 2003.
As for Coliseum, there is recent word that it may beat 100th into revenue service. Also it will NOT be called Coliseum, it will be names: West Farms.
Keeping you posted.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
That's a beter name for it though. In that area of West farms, it's time to reserrect that name...West Farms Depot!
100th Street was never scheduled to reopen in September. What was to happen if the building is ready and new articulated buses arrive on the property prior to the system pick that begins in January then the M101 and M103 lines from Manhattanville and the M 102 from Michael J Quill would be operated from the 100th Street building using drivers who picked the 3 lines. These drivers will report to 100th Street and will swing by the building.
If a driver was out sick,on vacation, or off than an extra list driver or vacation relief from Manhattanville for the M 101 or M103 or Michael J Quill for the M 102 would cover the route.
Thank You
I only pass along the info I get as I get it! My sources are usually on point, so I never questioned the opening dates!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor,
You do an outstanding job. Please keep it up
Thank You
Any news on when (if?) there will be a vote to potentially end the Queens DOT bus strike? I haven't seen an updated news story since the 29th.
Given the extreme heat this week, the sooner those buses can be back on the road, the better.
Jim D.
Earlier in the week the union said there was going to be a vote, it hasn't happened. Understand that Sonny Hall has been busy in the backround. There was a flyer passed out Wed. to the members, but I didn't get a copy of it.
All I have to say is...enough is enough!! If this strike doesnt end soon(and by soon I mean next week)...and/or they do not take a vote, I am going to start a petition for a class action lawsuit against New York City DOT, The private companies, and their unions for damages to the citizens of Queens. As far as I am concerned, if they are fighting for an EPP clause, this should be considered and unauthorized strike since they are fighting for something that does not exist.
I cannot believe the audacity of Bloomberg's Administration to allow this to go on this long, it is completely unacceptable. If the city does not take action, I will!!
The is some kind of meeting of the parties that began about 10 AM.
Lets hope they come to an agreement.
Disclaimer: I'm not the spokesperson for nycDOT or my employeer.
With the City and State in a big financial hole, and the TWU prepared to strike if they don't get in a bigger one, I can't help but think that this is about the next contract.
The TWU wants to see if they can win an illegal strike, and if the city can survive well enough pay off the resulting contract until its members can retire with their constitutionally guaranteed pensions and move away. Bloomberg had to show he was willing to take the short run heat rather than cave in to a long run disaster.
The TWU wants to see if they can win an illegal strike
What is illegal about the current strike?
(The TWU wants to see if they can win an illegal strike)
(What is illegal about the current strike?)
Nothing, but you miss the point. For both the TWU and the Administration, the private bus lines, drivers, and riders are pawns in a confrontation that is a rehersal for the NYCT negotiations. It's like Queens is Vietnam, and the TWU and the Bloomberg Adminstration are the Soviet Union and the U.S. Any wonder the napalm is flying?
Maybe you should start a van company. That will definitely get noticed.
If I knew that the strike was to be so long, I would've leased 10-15 vans and made a fortune. And wouldn't it be ironic to have had the striking drivers operate them.
HEHE...e-mail me, because the votes aren't in yet.
SCT bus allows its drivers to control the HVAC system. There is a control panel on the left console. Hell even the fan speed can be controlled. Why doesnt NYCT allow this? There is only a on/off switch that must remain on at all time. Why is this?
Perhaps so that passenger comfort isn't subject to the whims of whoever happens to be driving the bus that day.
That, along with the fact that the system is cheaper to purchase and maintain may have been factors in the decision to use basic equipment, however consider the following:
Passenger complaints regarding the air conditioning system being *too cold* on many buses has led to the TA _unofficially_ closing four of the six duct vents along the two sides of the bus.
Now, you have cold air blowing from the back of the bus only, with minimal cooling towards the front. When those front doors open, it takes three-times the amount of time to re-cool the bus, especially in the drivers area.
Personally, I *never* shut off the AC system, regardless of what passenger says what about the temperature. I'm stuck in that bus for upwards of 8 hours a day. When those front doors open, a rush of hot, steamy air rushes right into the drivers compartment. With the vanity panel enclosure behind me, and the fact that the RTS has no windshield over-hang, the greenhouse effect left by each door-opening drops and maintains the drivers area temperature to between 15 and 20 degrees warmer than that of the rest of the bus.
Now, with 2 of three forward vents being closed, it takes even longer to cool the front of the bus.
You'll just have to deal with the temperature for the 25-minutes of so you'll be riding with me.
Sometimes, everything isn't what it seems, nor is it a whimsical approach to operating.
Is it that SCT "allows" the drivers to control the HVAC system...or is it that the HVAC system is designed to allow various settings as most of their fleet is Gillig Phantom, which comes with that particular type of Thermo-King system??????
The NYCT buses...particularly RTS's, have a very complicated system that is supposed to be fully automated -- you turn it on, it is supposed to sense the temperature, and the system is supposed to automatically adjust it accordingly.
Was at Casey Stengel as part of a plan for QSC to take over the operations, yea sure I was < G > Anyhow saw a new MCI being checked out. Looked like a CNG version. They were checking out the wheel chair lift as I went by.
Will have to tip my hat at the great job security did of checking us out before they let us in.
My day into the city was supposed to take place but it did not happen, my apologizes. I'll try again next week. Thanks for your understanding. Oh btw, my friend saw bus #310 on Main St on the Q44 so, it's not being scrapped.
I passed by Jetaway's garage on Glenwood Road yesterday. They are now the proud owners of 2 METRO-Bs. They have ex-DeCamp 3200 (wheel chair equiped) and ex-NJT 3552 (widebody). They are painted white.
Peace,
Kevin
GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE! Somebody salvaged a couple YEAH! YEAH! 3552 SUCKS but yeah! They will live on!
Tony M.
Brother! Remember when the private owners get their hands on equipment like that, they get to open up the engines and they really run. I have seen some the ex- NJT MC-9A's and they were dogs and now they run better than some of the D4000's in terms of speed! So hopefully our babies will get the same treatment!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D #1975
Did you happen to notice if Jetaway still has any '71 Flxes from Jamaica Bus or RTS slopebacks?
The buses arent stored at that garage they only visit when the need repairs. As for the Flxible 870s Jetaway still runs them.
Peace,
Kevin
Yep sure do. I rode 1545-renumbered to 613? a few weeks ago when I was at Belmont. Similar to the Onion seating conversion-single seats on the right side.
#554 Q32
That was ex-NJT #1545. #1500-1618 series were not completely redone. For the most part in those buses the original seats were kept, and some of the emergency lights next to the destination sign remained just painted over. But most were removed.
It's a shame Jetaway takes such poor care of their equipment. To be honest, I don't even think they bother changing the fluids. When Jetaway gets a bus, it is just one step removed from the scrapper. They ran the piss out of those '71 Flxibles from Jamaica bus (#201-210). Just my two cents.
To them as long as they get their money for the contract that makes them happy, they don't even care that their buses look and run terrible, I guess they don't care what people think when they get on them despite the fact its a short ride.
Look at #1248 and 1459, I don't even think they get used, #1248 has a hanging panel on the left side and is smashed up a little bit in the front. #1459 has half of the front door missing.
Jason
So, now we know that Flxible Metro-B buses #3200, #3511, #3525-3526 and #3552 are gone! More to come!
Who own's 3511? I seen 3526 at nimco, It is destined for the scrap heap!
Tony M.
There was a time when 3511 was the best thing running at Fairview. I used to get to work extra early to dig that bus out. One mistake I made was telling people that it was a good bus , because they would get in before me and take it. So from now on I keep good buses to myself.
T.Beverett
YES! The golden rule!
LOLOL!
DaShawn
You got that right Troy, especially, when it comes to the Flxibles. A good one is always hard to come by.
Tony M.
The past two days have been rather interesting.
Yesterday (8-1)
Usual trip in the morning, we got Orion I 5538. Orion V/CNG 5808 hasn't been around since Monday. Later in the day, I had to go to Montgomery Mall instead of White Flint so I got on the 38 at my usual time in the opposite direction. But, this was one of the trips that diverted to the US Postal Training Facility! We just went out Democracy Boulevard to the facility and back but it was one hell of a ride. The bus was Gillig Phantom 5387. Essentially, the driver floored it all the way from Gainsbourough to past Newbridge. The speed limit there is 50 MPH and I am pretty sure we came close to that if we weren't over it. When we doubled back to rejoin the normal routing, a truck turned off Newbridge onto Democracy right before we got there so we had to follow it. It is a 2 lane road at that point but passing is legal so our driver tried to pass him but an oncoming car prevented him from doing so. Quite a few passengers were surprised by the diversion although the schedule clearly states that Montgomery Mall bound trips divert to the US Postal Training Facility at 7:24 and 11:52 AM. There is also a Wheaton bound trip that diverts at 4:07 PM.
We got to the mall about 2 minutes late where I dashed inside. Naturally, the store I needed to go to was on the other side of the mall and I wanted to catch the 12:15 J2 to get home, meaning I had about 11 mintues to get to the store, buy what I needed, get back to the bus stop, and get on the bus. There was a line in the store so I missesd the J2. The next bus was a 47 to Grosvenor, so I took that. It was an uneventful trip except the bus stalled at Grosvenor Lane and Grosvenor Place. I got to Grosvenor and got on the train. Because of the run I got, I was about 30 minutes behind my normal schedule. I got a 35 foot Orion V on the Ride-On bus home. Later in the day, I had to take the T2 somewhere. When it came, it was Metro-E 4094 but the front sign said L8 ASPEN HILL and the side sign said T2 FRIENDSHIP HEIGHTS. We were neither. The farebox also wasn't working so I got a free ride.
Today (8-2)
Today was a Code Red day but I don't fully agree with the person who decided that, it seems that the air quality is not at such a bad level. In any event, I get free bus rides so I won't complain.
Usual walk to the Metro, got an operator I haven't had for quite some time, and got to Grosvenor on time. I went to the bus, Gillig 5334, and got on. The driver was in the bathroom in the station and the bus was idling so we could have A/C. When he came back, he prepared to turn on the bus and get going, but when he tried to start, it wouldn't. It just made a really loud beeping noise. After trying this a few times, the driver announced "we may have broken down" and attempted to get us going. He soon called control. I overheard him say that the low oil light was on and I saw a leak when I got off the bus. Control sent another bus to cover the next inbound run and a mechanic to get the bus moving again. We now also had no A/C and the windows on Ride-On buses do not open all that much. At 8:30, the other 37 pulled up. It was Orion V 5618 and the usual driver was not there but it didn't matter that much. We waited until the normal departure time and went on our way. The bus sent out to cover for 5334 was a '88 Gillig with the front sign saying Germantown, if I read it correctly. At least it was a bus. 5618 had the wrong side sign but the front worked.
The homebound trip was uneventful. I got 5608 on the 38. The biggest disadvantage to these orange signs is they don't display any information on the front. The font is so large that CODE RED and RIDE FREE are not displayed at the same time for whatever reason (yet MONTGOMERY MALL fits). The older buses just say CODE RED-FREE, that could probably fit. The signs also take forever to change.
Conclusion:
I will be out of town from tomorrow afternoon until probably Wednesday. When I get back from wherever it is I am next traveling to, there will hopefully be plenty of additions to OTP. I also got pictures of Orion V/CNG 5569 (35 footer) and WMATA C40LF 2409 at Ride-On's Gaithersburg Garage which will be put on the site after I get back, too. See you all when I return. (I will be posting several more times before I leave)
it appears all these buses are now in storage not just the 11 mentioned on the roster lists. this especially makes no sense since nyct continues to operate 1982-1986 rts buses. very few from yukon are seeing service. the local fleet appears to be 468-370,6327-6340 and 8293-8315. all others appear to be in storage.
I have seen the 4800s also (4892-4897) - but nothing else.
The other night, I saw an Orion suburban on the S54 (154????)
Why the hell are those Orions always being stored? Yet, Yukon is still getting GMC's that aren't even needed. What is the TA going to get from preserving those Orion Suburbans? Give them to Casey Stengal, they'll make use of them.
Can someone please tell me the # in the 1700s that the Suburbans began (I know they went to 1858)?
Thanks.
If anyone is wondering why, see a future post.
If I am not mistaken I believe the 1700 RTS Suburbans started at 1734.
Jason
I think it was 1736.
#1852 X92
i think it was 1734 also since Flushing/Stengel had up to 1733 in local configuration.
It's bus #1734! I would know because it was one of the first buses I would see on Northern Blvd at Sanford Av. Also, CS had buses #1705-1745, so that was their fleet. Buses #1705-1733 were local.
I will be online infrequently this weekend, because of connectivity problems. The bad storms and lots of lightning hit locally, and my DSL is out. Finally got through to AOL tech support and did some diagnostics and they said that it will take 72 hours for the phone company (Verizon) to look at the line. So as a result I will be online less frequently. Those storms were nasty, and LIRR must've had lots of problems tonight.
I refuse to give the phone company any more $$ for lots of extra dial up calls, and I'm still waiting for my RFM. I'm getting ripped off!!!
Switch to AOL High Speed Broadband Cable service, it is 50x faster than Dial-Up. I have AOL Dial-Up Service, but when I get my new faster computer I will switch to Cable Modem, My Computer is a Rebuilt model and doesn't have a USB port for the Cable Modem.
Install a nic card. Using USB does not allow you to acheive the maximum speed of the cable modem.
A nic card is less than $20 and easy to install on any computer.
Then I have to get cable TV! I doubt they offer cable modems without TV service. I really don't want to give the Dolans any more $$.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's why, well your stuck with either Dial-Up or DSL, I just found out that AOL doesn't offer High Speed Cable in my area, so that means I gotta go for DSL.
You can definitly get cable modem service without TV service. The cable compaines ususally give you a discount if you are a cable TV customer
Cable Vision $49.95 without TV
I have been doing some calculations.
Go to 1996.
The TA has the following express buses in service (assume all are in service before any remanufacturing, etc)
1298-1317
1734-1858
3800-3899
4873-4888
7038-7049
9250-9349
101-172
611-630
That's 465 buses, plus I'll give like 15 more for the oddball conversions like 3503 and 4191 and 4497 = 480
In today's time, TA has these buses in dedicated express service:
1860-2209 (350)
2705-2924 (200)
996-998 (3)
7038-7049 (12)
9250-9349 (not all - say max at 50)
101-172 (not all - say max 15)
611-630 (not all - say max 10)
That's say 640 - with a few more oddballs around like the 4800s and the everlasting 1852 - say 650 total.
Metrocard has been in service since 1995, so that won't have an effect. And let's say ridership has been constant as of today's levels.
How was the MTA able to accommodate all the passengers back in 1996 if ridership is the same (hypothetical) as today with approximately 170 less buses in service and these buses held less people?
Well, for starters Academy no longer does Staten Island Routes, and 2 of the 4 runs went to NYCT. I am sure also service has increased on other lines, which gives the need for more buses operating.
MetroCard was indeed a factor -- a huge one -- in the increase in the size of the express bus fleet since the mid-1990s.
On March 1, 1998, the express bus cash fare was reduced from $4 to $3. With a MetroCard, the fare's as low as $2.76 a ride, and passengers wishing to continue their trips may transfer to a local bus (which they could already do) or to the subway (which they couldn't do before). Ridership immediately exploded and continued to increase.
My ridership records go back only as far as 1998 (before that REVENUE was counted, not riders). In 1998, NYCT carried 8,013,422 express riders. In 2001, the figure was 12,096,711. That's a 50% increase in three years, so to say that ridership has been constant over the period in question is extremely inaccurate.
David
There were some very interesting obeservations, I saw yesterday and they are as follows.
9449- rehabbed, new paint scheme has wrap around taillights
4309- spotted on the 35 heading towards Naylor Road
2336- on 80 line heading towards Kennedy Center, this is the lowest
number seen back in service
2112- had high squeel when accelerating
Also I have spotted various unpainted Flxibles that don't look any worse for wear. 8815 never repainted or rehabbed looks in excelent condition with minor fading over the grill panel and part of its blue stripe fading, but everything else looks sharpe.
At King Street Station on Friday night, it looked like 8752 was having some kind of problems as they had 4102 pulled up along side of it giving it a jump, possibly as there were wires attached to both of them. I'm thinking 8752 was an N11/13 route. I think I saw 9384 on 395 the other day, but couldn't be sure as we were going in opposite directions, but it looked like it. Could be since Royal has 9387.
I am pretty sure we'll be seeing more substancial changes as the rest of the C40LFs enter service over the next couple of months, I am pretty sure every garage will see big changes.
Which route would carry more passengers:
1) A reversed X17 route starting at Richmond Avenue and Arthur Kill Road and running the lower portion of the X17 route to Manhattan via New Jersey
2) A reversed X12 route starting at Victory Boulevard and Slosson Avenue and running via New Jersey
3) An X5 Super Express running from Richmond Avenue and Hylan Boulevard to Guyon Avenue or Tysens Lane, then continuing nonstop to 34 Street via New Jersey
4) A new X15 Midtown service via Brooklyn or New Jersey
Your opinions, please
The midtown x15, since there is no midtown option available between Armstrong Ave and the SIE.
-Hank
In the mornings and nights, the midtown X17s run via NJ. They enter and exit the Staten Island Expressway at Richmond Avenue, which is right near the Goethals Bridge.
The downtown X17s enter at Richmond Avenue and run via Brooklyn, as well as all off-peak X17 runs.
In the morning and night, there is the X19, which is the downtown part of the X17 to Worth Street. It serves the same part of the X17 in Arden Heights, enters the West Shore Expressway, then to SIE, via Brooklyn. If they were able to, maybe they would route the X19 via NJ via Holland Tunnel, but then you run into width restrictions, with the MCIs being 102 inches, and the tunnel is wide enough for 96 inches. Granted, a 102 inch bus can fit, but more likely they'll lose the mirror - then wasted money on replacing mirrors.
If what you say regarding the X17/19 starting at Richmond Avenue via NJ for Downtown, It would be too far for the Lincoln Tunnel, then travelling back downtown.
For the X12, there is the X42, which is the midtown branch of the X12 running via NJ. The problem is that they have the X12 and the X42 duplicating in the same direction, then going via different routes. The X12 has 2 terminals - Downtown Worth Street and Midtown - both running via Brooklyn and Church Street in NYC. The X42 runs via NJ to Midtown only. I would have thought when they implemented the X42, they would have reversed the direction of the X42, since its terminus is right near the Goethals Bridge, then have it enter there going via NJ.
For the X5, your assuming it would pick up all passengers on Richmond Avenue from Arthur Kill Road to Hylan Blvd, then Tysens lane (bigger stop with parking), add a stop on Fr.Capadanno Blvd since park-n-ride there, then nonstop to 34th Street via FDR Drive - could be a huge hit. However, via NJ is out since the X5 would have to travel across SI to Goethals, then North - a waste of time since Hylan Blvd is too far from Goethals. Sounds very interesting for Midtown commuters - would be good also to implement on X4, X7 and X8 (X4 duplicate X5 stop pattern - for Downtown Commuters) (X7 and X8 make all stops to Hylan and Nelson Avenue, then the next 2 stops mentioned for the X5, and would keep their regular routes in Manhattan - except have the X7 unload across from the WFC instead of going into it - then via WestSide to 34th Street).
X15 Midtown Branch would be X35 if they decided to do it in my opinion. However, with the current route of the X15, the X35 would run via Brooklyn and via FDR drive to 23rd Street, similar to X2 route, except serving West Midtown.
That's my views and opinions.
[For the X12, there is the X42, which is the midtown branch of the X12 running via NJ. The problem is that they have the X12 and the X42 duplicating in the same direction, then going via different routes. The X12 has 2 terminals - Downtown Worth Street and Midtown - both running via Brooklyn and Church Street in NYC. The X42 runs via NJ to Midtown only. I would have thought when they implemented the X42, they would have reversed the direction of the X42, since its terminus is right near the Goethals Bridge, then have it enter there going via NJ.]
When did the X42 ever go through New Jersey? Do you know something that Transit doesn't? Or are you thinking of the X30?
X30: From Victory & Clove via Victory Blvd, Forest Av, Goethals Bridge, N.J. Turnpike, Lincoln Tunnel, 42nd Street, Madison Avenue (return on 5th), and 57th Street to 11th Avenue.
X42: From South Avenue following X12 route through the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel, then via FDR Drive, Houston Street, Lafayette Street, 4th Avenue, Park Avenue South, 25th Street, MAdison Avenue
sorry - I was really tired and wasn't thinking straight. You are right - my apologies.
As far a passenger capacity, It's hard to say, but it would definitely not be the X17.
I have noticed a change in NJT's bus fleet a couple of years ago and on the Hoboken Festival Booklet, the Nova (30') and the Nova (40')buses are used and briefly explained. Can anyone provide a picture of these two? I have noticed the new Coach buses for NJT and some of the same models that NJT uses are also used on other bus routes in Jersey City and elsewhere.
Are they similar to NYCT buses?
Pictures or detailed responses would be appreciated.
Thank You.
Did you check Transitalk.org?
What does it mean when a bus is a "kneeling bus"? I've noticed it on NJT and NYCT buses.
The bus is equipped with Kneelers, and allows for slightly easier access.
It means the front of the bus can be lowered (closer to the curb, assuming the bus is curbed) to make boarding and exiting easier.
David
Actually that isn't true. The only time the bus should be knelt is when it is away from the curb. NYCT regulations prohibit the kneeling of buses that have been properly curbed.
Thanks for the correction. I guess the idea is to prevent the bus from "grounding."
David
Air is released from the front suspension to allow it to drop down and allow easier boarding for passengers.
Over here the distance between the "kerb"(our spelling) can be as little as 1 0r 2 inches clearance.
During my many travels on various NYCT busses, I've noticed a kneeling pattern: Operators of New Flyer high floor coaches kneel the bus much more frequently ( some fully kneel the bus at every stop) than RTS and Orion Operators ( some of which Kneel the bus 4 or less times the entire route). These observations were taken over a 2 year period of consistent daily ridership of 2 or more rides per day, making the observations Statistically vaild. All notes were taken ( hereby defined as "kneeling Conditions" , under the constant of the bus being properly pulled into the stop, and parallel to the sidewalk.
The fact that someone has logged the occurances of bus operators kneeling different types of buses as opposed to others is a useless statistic, regardless of any claims of validity or variances among a bus fleet. Kneeling the bus is a compulsory requirement whenever the bus must make a bus stop away from the curbline, regardless of the type of bus in operation.
The only statistic that would mean anything is a compliance statistic among those bus operators which do or do not follow the guidelines detailed by the NYCTA.
The reason buses are prohibited from kneeling at the curb line is fear the doors will strike the curb (should the bellows over-exhaust) causing damage to the bus.
For purposes of discussion, it would be interesting to know if you'd logged the specific year of the RTS that hadn't knelt as often as other buses. The newer 8900+ series buses cannot be "dumped" (as can earlier models), which can lead to the bus reamining in the lowered position, with the interlock fully engaged, causing delays in service due to a defective bellows compressor failure to fully raise the vehicle. The only alternative to resume service is to have the passengers alight the bus and board after the system has fully raised the bus (somewhat defeating the purpose of kneeling the bus to begin with, because if the bus had to be knelt at this point, it should be knelt to re-board the passengers that must alight in order to lessen the weight load on the bus).
Lastly, many operators prefer certain bus models. It is possible that the same operators receive the same model bus daily, hence your statistic reflects the personal operating habits of an individual, rather than a specific bus type, which would invalidate your claim.
I'm even more amazed that someone would spend 2 years of their personal time taking notes on kneeling buses.
Those stats were taken when an operator was at the curb and thereby violating MTA policy. It was meant as an interesting tidbit, and I didn't specifically take notes only on operator and bus type vs. kneeling frequency during two those years. There were no claims of usefulness of those stats, only statistical validity.
Just one correction. The policy is that of the NYCTA and not the MTA.
The exact activity of a kneeling system is this:
- Driver activates kneeling system with a dashboard switch
- Brakes lock and right front air spring fully deflates
- Depending on the make/model of bus, the body can drop as much as 6 inches closer to the street at the front door
- Once the passenger has boarded, the driver deactivates the system, the air spring reinflates to normal size raising the bus back to normal height, and when air pressure is back to normal, the brakes release and the driver can proceed
I haven't seen the signs on the MCIs in MTA nor have I seen it done, but do they kneel?
Also, do the Vikings Kneel?
What I also find interesting is that the LOW FLOORS kneel also.
I did check there but it doesn't have a breakdown of the list of bus model #'s and designs and such for NYCT and NJT, etc.
I have posted a second time regarding this and if someone has posted answers or suggestions I wish that someone would guide me to that thread as my word search only is limited to one search line.
Thank You.
Dave Mackey has updated his NJT fleet roster:
http://www.davemackey.com/njt/roster.html
Dave Mackey's roster is close to being up-to-date, but not totally. I was on 8236 and 8237 last week, both D4500's out of Meadowlands (running on the 320).
Thank you very much for the website! Very much appreciated.
: )
The following is the only proposed service change
All Q -46 service operate to LIJ Hospital between 11PM and 1AM and on weekends. Service on the 260th Street branch will operate weekdays only.
NOTHING MENTIONED about weekend express bus service on the x-27 and x-28. Speculation is that funds were given by the state on a specific law.
Thank You
Why they going to cut service on the 260 St Branch on the Q46 on Weekends? I relly fell sorry for the people that live along 260 St. If they go to the city and use the Q46 260 St Route. They eather walk to Union Turnpike or take the QM1A Glen Oaks Branch(If the strike is over)
BLX has found something important to respond to. The 260th Street branch of the Q46 does not have the ridership to justify weekend service. The fact is, the residents living around where this bus loops probably are happy that the bus will remain on Union Turnpike. This route will see a jump in ridership around the fall of 2003 when construction is completed on 3 new school buildings. One building will be a specialized High School. The other 2 buildings will each house a PS & IS (JHS) school. Each school will have it's own number. For instance (#'s not correct), PS 206 & IS 156 is in one building and PS 188 & IS 233 in the other. This will be on Commonwealth Blvd. less than a mile North of Union Turnpike. The only way to get to this school is the Q46! Now BLX asks you, am I not responding in the correct (although boring) manner. Why send negativity towards BLX? Does BLX personally attack anyone on this web site? No. BLX has an opinion, and BLX knows there are those transit purists that agree, but cannot ad will not respond on this site. Whatever the case may be, BLX will continue to lead and let others follow.
The 260th Street branch of the Q46 does not have the ridership to justify weekend service.
Finally, a statement directly related to bus issues and one that I agree with. As one who regularly operates the Q-46, I cannot tell you how many people are displaced and inconvenienced by having to alight at 260th Street and walk the rest of the way to the hospital. There is no justification to carry two people up 260th Street while 20 or more hospital employees must wait for the next LIJ/LR bus, or walk to their destinations.
From a passenger perspective, the move makes sense. From an operators perspective, I'm not overly extatic about it because I always look forward to the light load and extra quiet layover time afforded by the Glen Oaks trip.
But on weekends, especially early Saturday and Sunday mornings, when the majority of riders are using the Q-46 to get to LIJ or Lakeville Plaza, it is the right thing to do. For those handful of weekend passengers who must travel to Glan Oaks, the Q-79 is a Saturday option to walking the short 4 blocks. On Sunday, the only option is to walk.
As far as the schools are concerned, I'm sure OP will devise a schedule that incorporates buses loading from Commonwealth Blvd as either school trippers or extra service built into runs.
But do us all one favor- leave the "lead and follow" crap off the board.
How about some variation that takes some school trippers up Commonwealth, along the GCP service road and over to North Shore towers? Or am i being too greedy here, Brooklyn?
BLX responds, sounds reasonable to service North Shore Towers. However, does NST want the Q46? Many of those residents are upper middle class and most likely use their SUV (Saudi Utility Vehicles) to get around. It's highly unlikely that they need the Q46, but maybe the domestic help and workers at the complex could use a bus to the subway. BLX asks, is NST in Queens or Nassau? BLX is using his thinking cap.
I'm sure, once operations planning implements some kind of scheduling variance, there will be service along Commonwealth Blvd again, and possibly to North Shore Towers.
I've always said, and encouraged the union to look into dual services to Long Island Jewish Hospital. One being the route to LIJ as it appears now, and another which serves Glen Oaks, North Shore Towers and terminates at LIJ as well.
The latter could run up Commonwealth Blvd during school hours only to serve the new schools, run east on the GCP service road stopping at Little Neck Parkway, continue to North Shore Towers and turn south onto Lakeville Road into the LIJ complex. Or, during school-closed hours, it could run up 260th Street, right onto Little Neck Parkway, right onto the GCP service road and right onto Lakeville Road into the LIJ complex.
Or a combination of the two services.
As it stands now, the Glen Oaks branch is an underutilized service and should be rerouted or extended to accomodate the possible and probable masses that would benefit from such service changes.
BLX recalls the Q46 being the Q44A operated from the former Flushing depot. No a/c then, they never repaired or maintained the system. Also, it's only a matter of time before the Q79 Saturday is incorporated into the graveyard of long lost weekend schedules. Anyway, if you are truly a Q46 b/o who leads your depot as representation from local 1056? Isn't your current fill in being promoted? And no, BLX does not currently work for any of the Queens depots. Okay, don't follow, I'll lead and then I can follow myself as BLX. What of Jamaica Saint Croix?
BLX recalls the Q46 being the Q44A operated from the former Flushing depot. No a/c then, they never repaired or maintained the system.
Wonderful. This is extremely useful information that should be discussed under the possible service changes to the Q-46.
Also, it's only a matter of time before the Q79 Saturday is incorporated into the graveyard of long lost weekend schedules.
More useful information pertaining to the current Q-46 proposal.
Anyway, if you are truly a Q46 b/o who leads your depot as representation from local 1056?
Who said I lead my depot?
Who said I was a representative of Local 1056?
Isn't your current fill in being promoted?
You may want to get back to qvdepot.com and read the site without the side affects of your viagra prescription interfering with your reading comprehension.
And no, BLX does not currently work for any of the Queens depots.
Thank GOD for small favors.
Okay, don't follow, I'll lead and then I can follow myself as BLX.
It's deja-vu all over again...
What of Jamaica Saint Croix?
Get a grip.
BLX did not say you were the rep for 1056, but asked a question, who is on a temporary basis, and, if he takes dispatcher, what then?
Also, let it be known that 260th Street service will be curtailed after 11pm weekdays also. And, you mentioned people using the Q79 on Saturday as an alternative. All BLX said was that this route is headed for extinction (on Saturday). As for Jamaica Saint Croix, you may not know the benefits of her image filling the sights of your Sony trinitron tv. Why not try it. Also, use caution when you make the u-turn coming out of 78th Ave. on the trip back out east. BLX cares about safety, 19A certified and all.
Anyway, if you are truly a Q46 b/o who leads your depot as representation from local 1056? Isn't your current fill in being promoted?
Who said I was a Local 1056 representative?
BLX did not say you were the rep for 1056, but asked a question
Had you (I'm sorry, you don't post here, I should say, Had "BLX") used correct punctuation and grammar in the above semi-sentences, you (I mean, BLX) would have realized that you (I mean, he) first made a statement ending with an imporper punctuation mark, then asked a question based on your (his) own erronious misinformation, rather than make a factual statement or ask a legitimate question.
You, (oops, BLX) appears more concerned with displaying his spelling-bee notariety that you (he) forget(s) to use proper punctuation so that your (his) message(s) may be rendered in the context in which you (he) offers them.
In any event, in response to your improperly punctuated, run-on sentences, I suggest you read the website referred to previoisly.
Also, let it be known that 260th Street service will be curtailed after 11pm weekdays also.
This has already been stated.
And, you mentioned people using the Q79 on Saturday as an alternative.
This is a fact.
All BLX said was that this route is headed for extinction (on Saturday).
This is speculation.
As for Jamaica Saint Croix, you may not know the benefits of her image filling the sights of your Sony trinitron tv. Why not try it.
This is the effect of abusing viagra via granulated nasal inhalation.
Also, use caution when you make the u-turn coming out of 78th Ave. on the trip back out east. BLX cares about safety, 19A certified and all.
Oh not to worry. I make my U-Turn from 77th Avenue by edging my nose into adjacent traffic, waiting for the light to change then turning left saving 2 minutes of precious time. Increasing the volume on my radio enables me to enjoy the turn with less stress than if I were able to hear those annoying car horns and emergency vehicle sirens (unless I'm on an important call, in which case, I lower the volume temporarily).
Making the turn this way, I can enjoy my music, cigarette and coffee in peace, as opposed to waiting for all those pesky targets pedestrians crossing my path.
I've learned that tossing the radiophone (wherever it lands, not that I'll need it anyway) from the cradle makes for a great coffee-cup holder (as well as inhibits all those annoying messages from console). The coin entry slot on the farebox makes for a great ashtray. If I tie the end of my seatbelt to the sun-visor hook, that makes for a great radio holder. This way, I only need my right index finger to operate the bus, while I hang my cigarette out the window from my left hand.
Thanks for your interest!
I will be out of town until Wednesday afternoon. During this time, no updates will occur on my website and responses to e-mails will be delayed. I apologize for any inconvinences. Of course, you can enjoy the extensive update to my site which I just made, including pictures of WMATA Orion V 4309, the WMATA C40LFs, and Ride-On Gillig Phantom 5409. Also, there is a quiz to test your knowledge of bus and subway systems. This is not an easy quiz and other people on this board can attest to this fact. Please check it out at the link from the Departure Board page.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com
I saw an artic on the M102 last night.
I thought they were only used on crosstown routes.
Alot of artics are currently running on the M102
when I visit n.y Inotice your artic have steps and here in utah our artic is low floor
May I know what artics you have in SLC?
UTA has New Flyer D60LFs - ten of them, I believe. NYC's are the standard-floor version made by New Flyer as well.
we have 12 new flyer d60 low floor
I saw 1014, 1004, 1039, and 1035, plus some others I could not identify, on the M102 between Saturday night and this morning. I rode 1004.
I notice that there's N27 service on Sundays starting next month. Do anybody know when it would start and when it ends?
I hopeing it starts around 9 AM since I go to bowling right by on Jerico Turnpike along the N22A and N27 Line and bowling starts around 9 AM but often it starts at 9:15 AM.
And I normally get a ride to that bowling alley. I use to go to the bowling alley on Union Turnpike near the Lake Succes Shopping Center it was about a 10 Minute walk from the Q46 LIJ Branch. Now I take the Q46 to 164 St and then go into my friend maria car to that bowling alley
hey whatever happened to that sterling bowl anyway?
Gone for good? Renovation?
i never found out
I know what happin to it. I heard they lost the lease and was sold to a diffent complany to make a Shopping Center. I passed by it a few hours ago on the N25 and the sign is gone and so as the glass ad a trailer is there now. It been close since May 31 2001 and my bowling program used to be there
I am very, very happy about this. Now I can go to Roosevelt Field from Sea Cliff on Sundays, and trips to Greenvale on Sun. won't involve two buses.
Bravo! :-)
According to NY1 news, a tentative agreement has been reached in the NYCDOT bus strike, with the city advancing $3.75 million to offset costs. Looks like it's a city issue after all. More info as it comes in.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
cbs 880 is also reporting it here is the url:
http://wcbs880.com/topstories/StoryFolder/story_1088278199_html
OH NO!
A 27 month contract extension? Ummm, aren't these contracts supposed to expire in December of 2003? This means we will see another automatic contract extension in the fall of 2003. Yet another opportunity lost to fix some glaring NYCDOT route problems.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the current contracts are embedded in a total land use package which stipulates certain things, including the freezing of all franchise routes until a new authorizing resolution is adopted. That means that while the workers get what they need, the riders continue to get screwed. How?
The Q9A is a useless bus. The Q21's frequency has been slashed to the point where it is also a useless bus. A fusion of the Q9A and Q21 could make both routes more useful, including giving direct service to Jamaica to more Rockaway residents and visitors. The Rockaways will continue to have LOTS of lots until we provide enough transportation for the residents to get around. Neither can we get the Q65 close enough to the commercial developments in College Point to actually serve the developments.
If we want to bring new businesses to the outer boroughs, and we give them CRUMMY TRANSPORTATION, why would any more businesses even bother to try? High taxes and low traffic are not the keys to success.
In the same legislation, city subsidized and unsubsidized services are treated the same. If we don't have an authorizing resolution, we can't allow private companies to create new bus services to fill the gaps left by the public sector. While many people on this board are not fond of commuter vans, these vans provide THE ONLY unsubsidized service in the city that can respond to market demands in the same economic cycle. Van enemies (more than I'd like in the City Council) could allow new bus services to emerge, reducing the number of vans needed to fill the gap throughout the city.
Buried in the same legislation is the provision that these routes be competitively bid. The City Council has had to pass local laws every time they wanted to extend these contracts. In this arrangement, financial penalties could not be assessed for not meeting guidelines because we are renewing contracts that do not include them. Yet these same politicians complain about poor service by the franchise companies. Anti-trust laws are there to prevent the formation of destructive monopolies by maintaining competition. With no anti-trust equivalent to regulate the public sector, this is leading to destructive public policy. Long-term sole source contracts are more expensive than competitively bid contracts just as competition tends to control labor costs in the private sector because companies have to stay competitively priced. Not allowing private carriers to provide service when two cash-strapped public entities cannot provide them is destructive competition...ask NJT, who had to buy Lakeland and support them because their upgrading rail line caused a big shift in ridership.
Wait, there's more. New legislation would have to be passed (including a possible amendment of the City Charter) in order to make the transfer possible. How did MaBSTOA handle it? Can anyone tell me about the process to put them under the same umbrella as TA? Are they fully integrated today or are there quirks in each system? HOW LONG did it take for the two systems to put up one unique front so the public wouldn't be confused? Where would this money come from to make the switch to MTA?
In conclusion, I am happy that the workers received what they wanted. However, the rest of the city will suffer more to implement these changes. This is something that I cannot support in its current farm.
[...the freezing of all franchise routes until a new authorizing resolution is adopted.]
In other words, the routes will continue to meet the needs of late 1930's travelers - while 21st-Century ridership patterns are ignored at all costs.
- - - - -
[In this arrangement, financial penalties could not be assessed for not meeting guidelines because we are renewing contracts that do not include them.]
The "penalties" for lousy service are irrelevant anyway, because the companies simply expense them away - i.e. claim the penalties as expenses and get reimursed for them by the same NYCDOT which imposes them!!
Sad, but true. Maybe I need to start a van company...Reform Van Lines...and put older transit buses on it with 20 seats and wheelchair accessibility. Or maybe I could use those new Thomas SLF buses and put 20 seats in those. Hmmm...
Good luck getting adequate insurance, which is why legal private operators are few and far between.
-Hank
Yeah, I hear it's $13,000 per year. Plus, most work 14 hour days, which is why I would think twice before running a similar service to an existing bus. Some of the smart ones pick up airport service to make more money.
"The "penalties" for lousy service are irrelevant anyway, because the companies simply expense them away - i.e. claim the penalties as expenses and get reimursed for them by the same NYCDOT which
imposes them!!"
You must think the City is THAT stupid, well they aren't. The operators don't get re-imbursed for penalties.
Good morning fellow transit purists. BLX wakes to another hazy, hot and humid day. BLX thanks all those that provide the world with the coolness of a/c. At 12 noon today, there will be a press conference announcing the details of the settlement. BLX knows 7 weeks is a long time. Queens residents feel slighted by our Mayor, thinking that this strike should have been settled long ago. BLX knows, the privates are funded by NYC, so who are the politicians kidding? Another situation falling prey to the world of corporate greed. If the privates truly were operated like a private company, there would be no 7 week strike. Two things would happen, all the workers would be replaced and those on strike never to return (like the air traffic controllers when Reagan was President) -or- everything would be done to resume business asap, to avoid monetary losses (if it's your money, they don't care). Get the former CEO's of Enron, Worldcom, etc. to run the privates, then what would happen? BLX is out, need to watch sun rise to regenerate brain cells.
What an opportunity for management to get rid of some of the ridiculous work rules (that even the T.A. & MABSTOA don't have). But alas, management, more so the owners, just cave into the Union's ridiculous work rules so long as the owners get their $$$$$, and let me tell you, they do very well in that respect (today its called a management fee). Want just the tip of the iceberg? It involves union employees sleeping on duty and while being paid. Lets hope that this is all cleared out with this tenttive agreement, but I doubt it very much. To be continued.
I remember, around 1985, seeing a WMATA GMC numbered either 3199 or 8199 running near Farragut Square. It was sort of an odd new look in that the driver's side window had a t-shape, similiar to the 9200's and beyond. I am wondering if I was seeing things or there was such a bus. Also I knew I saw a NYC type Flxible running in Southeast around the same time. This bus had the type of yellow emergency lights commonly seen on NYCTA buses.
I remember the NYCTA Flxible. the number was 4000. It had a sister bus, 8800, that was a GM fishbowl, with express seats. Also WMATA had another oddity, 9500, a Neoplan AN440 demonstator. This bus was built to SEPTA specs, the telltale signs was that it was 96 inches wide (the other 76 9500's were 102" wide), and the seats were red and blue like the SEPTA buses. That bus ran with the other Neoplans out of Southeast garage.
Did this bus have the WMATA standard windows, because a couple of years ago, before the Neoplans were hauled off as the Orion 4200-4400s started coming in, I saw at least two Neoplans sitting in the Annex garage with windows similiar to the other regional bus systems in the D.C. area.
No. This bus had the SEPTA type sealed windows. Also the interior looked exactly like the SEPTA Neoplans that were being delivered at the time.
A number of cities had buses with those emergency lights. Years before NYCTA buses had them, I think the original purpose of those lights were used to indicate express service when they were lit. New Orleans is one city that used express lights on their buses.
Early yesterday morning (5:30 AM) I left Suffolk County and arrived in Rocky Hill at Double A at 7:50 AM for the event.
Double A's yard is large and truly a bus lovers delight. They have school buses, airporter vans, rubber trolleys MCI -102 D's and many Flxible Metros in service. Some of the metros have Flx name plates while others still have the Grumman plate.
Double A also has many antique buses in their museum fleet. There are GM Old and New Looks from many companies including NYBS and Conn Transit.
The event was hosted by Double A, Charles Wotring of Royal Coach and the Motor Bus Society. There were buses on display from all eras. There were some Yellow Coaches and other 30's era stuff.
Peter Pan Lines came down with a Flx Clipper, anothe old Flx OTR coach and a GM Old Look. They brought down an MCI 102 J3. The circular staircase was cool. However for me the best part of their collection was the FUTURLINER. They did a great restoration job on the bus. Got to climb up to the cockpit. You can't be claustrophobic and drive the bus. The ceiling is so low you can't be taller than 5' 10" and be comfortable in it. They have put a TV camera in the back and a small monitor in the cockpit to aid the driver when backing up.
There was a baby fishbowl TDH3301 - 004 there. Several other fishbowls including the TA PD Blitz fishbowl. Also attending were motorhomes that converted from a PD 4104, PD 4108 and a Neoplan.
Someone associated with King Ward lines took a go-kart and put a Prevost style body on it. A small hole was cut in the roof for the driver to climb in and see. It was funny seeing what looks like an oversized radio controlled bus toy running around with just someone's fore-head and eyes coming out of the top.
Vendors included Royal Coach's Charles and Janet Wotring, their son Doug accompanied by his very sweet and attractive girlfriend, Modeler Bob Garret, and an advance copy of Kurt Resch's upcoming revised bus model book. Of course there were other vendors there.
In the garage was a fishbowl awaiting restoration. The sign on the bus said that is was left on the property by some people who were from South America. The builders plate showed that it was a 4517. The serial number was "4517DEMO". Does anyone know the origin of this bus ?
I met up with several bus-talkers, such as BMTman, Thurston, Mike Pompelli, Sparky as well as several members of the Shoreline Trolley Museum......One vendor was selling bus driver badges. As soon as BMTman and I saw it, we forced Thurston to buy it because it was worn by operator # 518 of QUEENS SURFACE CORP.
One bus-talker, Joe Saitta came up with Flx 699 which died right at the exit ramp. Eventually the bus was brought in on a flatbed. While offloading the bus something dropped out and caused a chunk of the asphalt to be gouged out. The bus had to be left there and Tony A, president was going to loan Joe a van to get home.
The Shoreline gang departed Rocky Hill at 2 PM and went to the other trolley museum at Warehouse Point....They have several buses in their collection including 1 of only 3 GM Fishbowls that are known as "Railbuses". The driver lines the bus up on railroad tracks and via a hydraullic system wheels are lowered on to the rails for the bus to act like a trolley.
While at the museum we were invited over to a Shoreline Members house for dinner. Thankfully BMTman the grill man didn't burn the house down. It was a nice ending to a long and enjoyable day.
I arrived home at ll:30 PM some 18 hours and 334 miles since I left.
The Flxible Metro's, you saw were more than likely the 1989 Flxible Metro-B's from NJ Transit. Did you see any of them in their old NJT numbers, I am curious about which ones they did purchase from NJT?
By the way did you see an RTS up there, I thought when looking at an NYCT Roster, it said they have one.
Jason
There were 11 ex- NJ Transit Flxible Metro- B's parked in the grass yard that fronts on Cromwell Ave (the grass yard that Double A's school bus fleet and several mini buses are parked). They are still in NJT colors, have no plates on them when observed yesterday, and I jotted down the numbers. For those who are interested here are the numbers of the ex-NJT buses parked at Double A:
3593,3174,3216,3018,3533,3529,3188,3191,3511,3519,3271.
My guess, and I didn't think to ask, that the ex-NJT Flxibles will be repainted and will replace the 1979 Grummanns in Double A's fleet. They use the Grummanns for corporate and parking lot shuttles in the Hartford area.
There was also 1 ex-NJT Flxible that was parked in the upper display bus area(where the food tent was), had a PA-**** # (failed to write that number down) that Double A has for sale. Double A also had some of their Grummann Flxibles for sale as well, including a couple of ex-CT Transit Grummanns. Also GMC Fishbowl 3039 (ex-Northeast Transportation/CT Transit 3039) for sale, along with one or two other ex-CT Transit fishbowls if I recall.
They have at least 1 1989 Flxible Metro-B that is an ex- Greater Richmond VA Transit bus (given away by the GRTC reward notice still inside bus).
It was a fun day, sorry I didn't get to meet any of the Bus talk list members, but I did get to meet Tony Autorino, the president and owner of Double A and thanked him for hosting this event. I'm sure that he spent a few bucks to provide us with free food and drink, and a tented seating area with a great view of buses!!
Mark Watson
Is Double A Transporation in what part of Connecticut? What routes do they serve?
Check out their web site:
http://www.doublea.com/
This is the only scheduled service but they have large school bus contract in CT as well as a big charter service.
Schedules
Below are a listing of our regularly scheduled shuttle services.
The Trinity College Shuttles
Central Connecticut State University Shuttle
Foxwoods Resort Casino Line Run COMING SOON!
Tony has a bus Museum and sells used buses.
Thanks Lou!
As those 11 ex-NJT buses are gone from the fleet, I would continue to observation anything that comes out to LI scrap yard....mostly in Riverhead since they have those ex-QSC RTS-04 buses, ex-NYCT and ex-MTA LI Bus GMC "New Look" buses and one ex-MTA LI Bus Flxible "New Look" bus that I have been talking about on this website for how long. Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for them down here since numerous buyers brought them. Anybody else seen more Flxible Metro-B's?
I keep meaning to get out there, but last I heard the scrapyard was sealed off (in the midst of the 09/11 tragedy). Do you think the converted slopebacks from Queens Surface would be out there as well (they were 100 numbers)? Also, there should be Grumman Flxibles from MTA/L.I. Bus.
The converted Slopebacks were LOANED from Liberty Lines, so they went back there.
Those slope back RTS-03 buses are now converted with A/C. So, it is not possible that buses #190-204 are in that yard although I do not recall seeing any of them. Buses #177-189 are not in that yard at all (those are ex-Westchester Bee-Line Buses). Yes, you are correct that the yard has shut down due to 9/11. Also, some ST bus yards are doing the same by keeping people away from the yard. The only exception is the Southampton Depot. The buses are in a public parking lot behind the Hampton Jitney bus stop in Southampton. Oh, no Grumman Flxibles from MTA LI Bus although to my knowledge...anything is possible.
There was also 1 ex-NJT Flxible that was parked in the upper display bus area(where the food tent was), had a PA-**** # (failed to write that number down) that Double A has for sale.
It was PA1097.
Speaking of Double A, does anyone have a roster of what their 1400-series Flxibles once were? Are they all ex-Richmond, VA?
[By the way did you see an RTS up there, I thought when looking at an NYCT Roster, it said they have one.]
Double A had bought ex-NYTA RTS 1576 quite some time back, but resold it several months later. I forget who the buyer was, but believe it is an individual or entity located in the NYC metro area.
Yes, it was interesting that no RTS models (GM or otherwise) were in the yard.
I had a great time there too. I was looking hign and low for the GM new look Tony acquired from Shoreline Trolley Museum. Anyone know what happened to that bus ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Tony has 3 locations, we think it went to the one closer to New Haven.
Beside those already posting or mentioned, Trevor Logan was there too.
As a guy who works for a bus company I too enjoyed the event. I was quite surprised at the low turnout ... free food, lots of old buses, auction, tables loaded with bus stuff, what more could a bus-buff want?
BTW, at The Point I was given the handle(s) & did take my friends for a ride on their open bench car from Rio & the open touring car from Montreal.
P.S. The visit to another SubTalker's house in Avon was also part of our great mass transit D-A-Y ... got home at Midnight.
As for Shoreline's equipment, someone said that is was in a shop opposite some of the museum buses but the door to that bay was down and not visible to the public. Don't know for sure.
Many private bus operators would like to operate bus services on an unsubsidized basis in New York City. However, city laws only allow private commuter vans to provide service to our communities, and they are severely restricted because of the perceived threat to existing MTA and NYCDOT services. This is counter to any rules of industrial common sense. Industrial common sense tells you that the stronger competition is in an industry, the more options you have. The more options you have, the more likely that a person will pick at least one of them. In the auto industry, automakers such as Volkswagen are expanding their product offerings because a wider range of products attracts more people.
Likewise, our current mass transit system has seen increased ridership due to the new travel options that the elimination of two-fare zones and unlimited ride MetroCards provided to New Yorkers. The MTA, projecting a deficit of over $150 million from the new options, had two years of budget surpluses totaling over $400 million. Gee, how did that happen? If I just had to pay once for running all over the city, I’d take it. Likewise, fierce competition on Staten Island forced the MTA to purchase more comfortable motorcoaches for their Staten Island express routes. Implemented on the routes with the most competition first (X1, X17), these buses have now become the MTA express bus standard on all express routes except the X90 and X92. The same competitors forced the MTA to start chasing them through New Jersey, speeding up the commute by up to a half-hour for some commuters. Express bus ridership citywide has increased by 50% in THREE years, from about 8,000,000 to 12,000,000 riders. Gee, how did that happen?
A public/private transit system is the last hope for New York City. We recognized since the 1940s that private operators can’t do it alone. What we have failed to realize is that public operators can’t do it alone either. This is a concept that our City Council does not understand. The unions don’t understand this either. Since both are key players in the decision-making process for our city’s transport needs, is it a wonder that we are now crying about money problems?
Contrary to popular belief, public operators do not have access to an infinite supply of resources, manpower, and money. This is why public operators demand exclusivity: they don’t want anyone doing “their” jobs for them, even if they can’t do it themselves. We have anti-trust laws in the private sector to deal with this; in the public sector, this is called destructive competition, and can result in the freezing of subsidies or other financial penalties until it is dealt with properly.
Therefore, I propose the following solution to this problem. Private operators should be allowed to provide unsubsidized services if they directly operate or subsidize an unprofitable franchise route. For example, Azumah Transport would operate bus service from Staten Island to Downtown Brooklyn, Brooklyn to the Bronx, and Bronx to JFK Airport. In exchange, Azumah Transport would subsidize the BxM11 by subsidizing Liberty Lines Express for part or the whole cost of the service, depending on my earnings from my services. When their contract ends, Azumah Transport would then take over the BxM11 or ask Liberty Lines or another carrier to continue its operation. To me, this is a small price to pay for the privilege of operating service in the city.
Maybe three or four carriers would fight over access to the city’s airports. If Azumah Transport wanted to beat Bloomberg Buses LLC, I would simply contribute more money to offset the costs of NYCDOT’s franchise buses in order to operate more routes. A win-win situation. The city would not necessarily keep all that money: the saved money would be reinvested in bus lanes, reduced tolls, MetroCard fareboxes, and absorbing MetroCard processing costs. All bus companies would be exempt from income taxes on their mass transit operations in the city, but would be required to use a minimum of 4% of their earnings on those operations to subsidize city routes. If the MTA wanted similar benefits, they could be included.
The key to this would be profit. If Azumah Transport and Bloomberg Buses are allowed to make lots of money, they will contribute a lot to the system. The main requirement is that no current dollars could be taken out of the system. It would then allow the city’s dollars to be stretched farther each year, giving us more bang for the buck. It allows private carriers to attempt to make money and would make it easier if they are successful to prepare for major projects and budget for future years. While many worry about the potential poaching of municipal routes, strong routes will co-exist with private competition. Poaching is also not the place for big money to be made, as poachers have never made as much money as innovators. The truly skilled companies that would dominate the field would probably have more brand-new lines than lines to poach because that’s where the money is located.
In conclusion, I believe that this proposal could be implemented immediately. We have the budget crunch now, so let’s start a pilot program. Government has a bad habit of doing too many conceptual studies. Mayor Bloomberg and the City Council should pass a local law that would allow a two-year trial period to see what issues come up during this time. After that, long-term policies and legislation could be developed to more effectively run this program. Besides, the city needs the money now…how long should we wait to generate more tax revenue for the city and conserve existing dollars?
But how about an operating scheule on the route? Would it be geared to a bottom line profit, geared to the demand of the bus riding public, or just operatge during the profitable times? Nights?? Weekends?? Mid-day??
Local transit routes are different than express routes. One way peaks are common on express, local transit usually need peak both ways.
The system in Westchester seems to be working well. The big difference seems to be the subsidy provider Westchester County DOT. They genuinely have an interest in providing the correct schedule that meets the ridership demand. Frequent updates, modifications, adjustments, etc. are made. Whereas the NYCDOT just looks at the expense and says no. Reductions in service are Okay. But if a bus route is overloaded and additions are needed, the answer is, "We'll look at it." (takes 3-6 months for this) then the answer is "NO its too costly." Is this any way to run a bus line??
First off, NYCT did not run surpluses. It ran lower deficits than it had anticipated running, but they were NOT surpluses.
Second, riding on the express buses exploded largely because of the fare reduction from $4 to $3 (with MetroCard users paying even less).
Third, most NYCT express routes don't go through New Jersey (remember, not all NYCT express routes operate between Staten Island and Manhattan), yet ridership increased throughout the express system.
No NYCDOT routes go through New Jersey (since none are Staten Island routes, that makes a great deal of sense).
David
1) I realize that most Staten Island express buses don't go through New Jersey. How does this negate my point of X17s and the X30 being routed through New Jersey to provide comparable service and speed to the privates?
2) The equipment and service was also a big factor. Academy still did a decent business on Richmond Avenue despite lower MTA fares. The fares are important, but a private bus could still compete at $3 if they utilize the bus well, such as charters or tours. The union wants those fares at $2 for a reason. I'm not saying that the fare wasn't a significant part, but other factors come in to play as well.
By the way, private companies continue to press X27 and X28 services illegally at $4 fares. Why do they still exist?
3) You mean the X23 and X24 aren't NYCDOT routes? You could have fooled me...HEHE.
1. It doesn't negate the point, but I felt that it needed to be said.
2. NYCT loses money on every passenger on the expresses. They're very expensive for NYCT to operate. They lose more money with a $3 fare than with a $4 fare, but the motivation behind reducing the fare was more politics than economics.
It may well be so that pirates are still skimming passengers off the X27 and X28. Is "ar" saying here that pirates aren't still skimming passengers off the Staten Island routes? As to the fare they're charging, since they're operating illegally (whether anyone's going after them or not) they can charge whatever they feel they can get from their customers. Their speed advantage lies in:
a. Picking up only where they feel like, as opposed to every stop along the route
b. Beginning their "express" portion as soon as the vehicle fills up, rather than continuing to pick up passengers -- and remember, lots of these pirates have 22-passenger "buses" that can fill up much faster than NYCT's 57-seaters.
c. Operating the vehicles with the primary consideration being speed rather than safety.
3. Yeah, I forgot about the X23 and X24, which are pretty recent additions to the Staten Island route system.
David
The politics being that contracting out was the rage back then and to some extent, Local 726 didn't want service being contracted out to Atlantic Express or Academy. Staten Islanders also didn't have a direct subway line to Manhattan and the closest they had and continue to have is the express bus system.
That X1 is as close to a subway as they may see...this route will eventually be 24/7.
Just to clarify:
The so-called pirates are only illegal in Brooklyn. On Staten Island, they may sail to the port of Manhattan via the New Jersey Turnpike. This is how the NYCDOT didn't need a franchise for the X23 and X24. These routes are supposed to go MTA in two years, but with no storage space, they will be rebid.
The pirates are practically gone. There are only two regular private operators left and these operators have been doing Richmond Avenue for at least seven years. In this market, there are a few carriers who are there REGARDLESS of the season, while there are seasonal carriers who do commuters because they aren't doing many charters. I don't consider the year-round operators pirates because they actually serve the commuters when they could be making more on that bus.
Private buses are generally street-hail buses: they make more stops than MTA buses, both in Manhattan and Staten Island. On Staten Island, smaller buses can be found, but most use large buses because the insurance on a smaller bus is not much cheaper and you can make more money with the bigger bus. Brooklyn "pirates" tend to use minibuses exclusively because they know they can't fill a bigger market without more publicity. Everyone knows that private buses float around Staten Island.
Speed over safety? I know the knuckleheads in which you refer to. Don't they say the same thing about Command drivers? In New Jersey, public and private bus drivers alike routinely operate at 70-75MPH. So can we safely state that ALL New Jersey buses are "pirates"? Not so sure, considering that Yukon is full of former Academy and Atlantic drivers, and the fact that their patches change doesn't make them more or less professional. Ever been on a non-governed MTA D4500? I have...Battery Place to the Staten Island Mall in 30 minutes on a Saturday afternoon...it was a sweet ride. Anyway, many can be reckless, but those are usually the emptier buses looking for passengers.
Remember that our current express bus routes are generally uni-drectional (I know, the X1, X10, and X17 tend to do ok on weekends). Anyone lead the charge for a bi-directional express bus? It's certainly possible between the Bronx and Queens (just look at how well the Q44 does), but who's trying it? The MTA nor NYCDOT is eager to try anything new: half the problem stems from money, the other half is institutional. By the way, the B110 (the unsubsidized Boro Park-Williamsburg route by Private Transportation) is a BI-DIRECTIONAL express bus that's profitable.
Just because it involves a little extra OOOMPH doesn't mean it isn't feasible.
By the way, the B110 (the unsubsidized Boro Park-Williamsburg route by Private Transportation) is a BI-DIRECTIONAL express bus that's profitable
It's profitable because it's ridership for religious reasons have no other choice.
In addition it operates very old buses that are in a state of repair that is not acceptable if the MTA opearated the service
Plus what's the pay scale for the drivers?
Does it operate frequent service or only service in the most profitable points in the day?
Was the MTA operate buses and subways only to be profitable, there would be far less service. Few night and weekend service. Shorter bus routes and lower salaries for drivers and train operators. The MTA would have no problem filling bus driver positions with the army of immigrants who would work for far less then the current MTA staff. But on the flip side the level of safety, professionalism and reliablity would be at all time lows
I'm not saying to throw the MTA out. I am saying that neither an all-private or an all-public system works. A hybrid system is necessary to provide the most coverage. The hybrid system would allow all three to expand by having the profitable services contribute some money towards the unprofitable public sector services.
Too often, people think it's public or private...this is not the way to think. It comes down to how badly you need the service and how much money is avaliable. We need new services in several corridors, but everyone balks at bringing in private carriers. I thought we wanted more service coverage, not just more civil service jobs.
If you read my proposal, it talks about a system in which private buses plug holes left by the public sector because neither sector can achieve 100% coverage on its own. 100% coverage will be tough together, but it's the closest we will get. Or, we can rely on a system that rarely receives tweaking to serve travel demand every 10 years, leaving us with an outdated system and no alternatives.
Read the proposal again and this may help to clear up misunderstandings. By the way, the B110 runs seven days per week from 6AM to 6PM every 15 to 30 minutes.
On the subject of the B 110, why is it not shown on regular bus maps like the B103 is for example?
MTA never showed non-MTA express bus service on its maps except the Q53 in Queens until February 2002, when the B103 made it onto the map. If you find a red NYCDOT express bus map, you will find it there.
The B110 is operated by Hasidc Jews (Satmars?), and does not, ever, run on Saturdays. There is also a service cutoff on Friday afternoons.
-Hank
Yes, you are right. Thanks for the correction. It ends at 6 or so on Fridays.
Earlier than that, at least 2 hours before sundown. It varies every WEEK.
-Hank
While the X23 and X24 are not operated by NYCT, they are neither "subsidized" nor "franchised" by NYCDOT. They were created by, and operate under contract to, the NYC/NYS Economic Development Corporation as an end-run around the whole "franchise" process.
Y'know, I THOUGHT those routes weren't NYCDOT, but it was late and I was tired and didn't feel like looking it up :-)
Thanks for the clarification.
David
These routes aren't technically "franchised" or "subsidized" by NYCDOT, but the only thing EDC knew about buses was the fact that they had wheels and carried people. In New York City, any non-MTA entity receiving state money must have it passed through NYCDOT because they are the state agent for that program downstate.
NYCDOT provides an immense amount of support for these routes, including using Green's schedule format to publish schedules for the X23 and X24. The fareboxes are owned by the City of New York as well, and the MTA refers any non-MTA carrier that wants fareboxes to NYCDOT. They also monitor those services periodically and while these two routes aren't official franchises, they are treated as franchises, which triggered the City Council uproar.
By the way, the plan is for the MTA to take over the routes at the end of the three year contract, but this may not happen because they have nowhere to park these buses. Then it would have to be rebid. This is why they wear the X23 and X24 names instead of their original names, which were AE1 and AE2.
[The key to this would be profit....]
That's actually the key to why it'll never be allowed to happen. The current system already includes GUARANTEED profits - which DOT euphemistically calls "management fees" - for all seven carriers, as well as coverage of ALL expenses, including (but not limited to) executive salaries, wages, campaign contributions, liability settlements, and "penalties" for lousy service. With such a deal, the carriers and their City Council lackeys will maintain the status quo at all costs.
Not if I find good laywers. Then they would want to talk, knowing that their pet programs die if I win the lawsuit. If Lakeland could win a shaky case against New Jersey Transit, I know I have a 70% chance with this situation.
You seem to be assuming that express routes are big money makers. My impression is that their farebox recovery ratio, on average, is actually quite low.
I've never seen the unit costs for MTA express service. I have the ridership numbers for all the SI express and as of April 2001, most carry around 30 passengers on average. I'll reserve my judgment until I see those costs.
As a private operation, the routes would still lose money, but they would lose a lot less of it. The X17 and X19 could probably break even and have a cookie cutter profit. Most of these routes aren't yet optimized (a bus lane would really help as well as route adjustments in Manhattan).
I'll check and get back to the group.
FIRST, I have enjoyed this discussion, it's why I come to Sub & Bus Talk, but too often, too frequently all I find is dribble.
Will "AR's" proposal work, that's a question without a obvious answer, but it would seem to deserve further consideration.
I've said many times here that NYC should N-O-T be a TA kind of town, especially when too much of the control comes form Albany.
Private operators inject a whole new way of thinking about how best to provide public service. In NYC folks are accustomed to service 24/7.
No private carrier is going to able to do that at a profit. AR may think so, if he seriously does then he's talking thru his hat OR he's trying to sell you the Titanic ... it has been preserved & is complete, but it's not exactly ready to run, so you better read all the fine print.
Maybe the City should look at how the subsidys are arrived at. If you monitored very carefuly every route you could ID when they were profitable & when they were almost & when it's at a total loss (Hawks after midnight). This would require very accurate input (every farebox would have to work & drivers punch in their numbers correctly too). There would also be a problem everytime a student wanted to board at the wrong time, or a correction cop in uniform carrying his gun wanted a free ride. This is just the tip of the Iceberg as to why it would be hard to get good rider counts, but then maybe folks would get accustomed to doing the right thing ... hopfuly without any drivers having to spill blood over it.
The TWU makes a good wage at these jobs, so support for any change will have to come from somewhere else. Meanwhile can the current "private" operation be made more accounable & less costly, sure. Any effort in this are is going to scare a lot of suits at the MTA. That sounds like a win win for the riding public.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and am not the spokes-person of my employer.
<<< OR he's trying to sell you the Titanic ... it has been preserved & is complete, but it's not exactly ready to run, so you better read all the fine print. >>>
That's a great line, Mr. T!
Jim D.
Trust me, I would love the opportunity to prove that I'm not trying to sell you the Titanic, but this would mean operating a service illegally. I don't want to promote that kind of activity (although in some cases it may be necessary) because it only creates more resistance to you. Not to mention the fact that at $5000 per bus ticketed, I would need an excellent lawyer.
I could certainly run a service 24/7 and make a profit in the following circumstances:
-High daily volume: If I ran the B35, B41, or B46, they would run every half-hour all night. Why? Longer service spans attract more riders. By the way, commuter vans do their BEST business at night.
-Possible point deviation: I may have to keep a fleet of 30 footers on reserve and rotate them into service around 10pm. On a limited stop or express service, we could deviate up to 1/2 mile off of the route to discharge passengers closer to their homes.
-Short running times: The shorter at night, the easier to do it.
I'm not saying this would be EASY...not at all. Thurston is correct when he says the current system works just fine for many because both the workers and companies benefit financially...AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM! There is no stagnation in mass transit...you are either growing or dying.
Thurston is also correct in saying that private companies bring a totally different philosophy to the table. This is true...and is not necessary negative. Private companies like to build up a service because they need to see demand (not a huge profit, just demand) in the early stages before they expand. SEPTA wants to build a "modified light rail" to run every 15-30 minutes to Reading and Wyomissing 62 miles away. Where's the current bus or rail service to build a passenger base for that? People in Philly think they may never get the train because of the high cost of what SEPTA is trying to do out of the gate. SEPTA's idea is not bad...but they made financial assumptions that they shouldn't have.
Private operators operate differently...not necessarily better or worse. And the smart ones take a risk and sometimes get burned (New Haven's Talgo, for example...over customized IMO), but that doesn't say anything about the concept.
I think that many people have never seen a large private and public system exist together. New Jersey is the closest thing to it. Anyone here believes that New Jersey would have the same or a greater network of routes if NJT had to provide ALL services, including the private, unsubsidized ones? A hybrid public/private system will give you the most coverage.
I understand that some people think I'm crazy. And that makes me feel great because the craziest people has done some of the most important things in history. I think it's crazy that the Bronx (pop: 1.2 million) and Brooklyn (2.4 million) don't have direct bus service between them. Greyhound runs buses every 60 minutes to Boston (589,000) FOUR AND A HALF HOURS away. Then we wonder why businesses don't locate in the other boroughs. I think it's crazy that a city settled by transit extensions has FORGOTTEN how important it is to keep up with the times. I think it's crazy that I can't provide my community with a needed service because the powers-that-be decide that they wan to hold a monopoly. I think it's crazy that people say that something can't be done because it requires...can you hold on to my hat I'm talking through...INNOVATION!!!!
I guess I just have to do everything myself, don't I?
The B41 DOES run every 30 minutes at night, at least on the trunk of the route (Avenue P and north).
David
What would u do to help routes that are need of some serious help. For example the B 23. This route seems more like a waste of money. Command Busses run more busses along Corteleyou Rd than the B 23 bet Flatbush and Coney Island. The whole route is not attractive and has low ridership except for school days in AM and PM. And their other routes like that in the MTA and in the private sector. How would u make it more profitable?
A route like the B23 could be improved by:
1) Connecting to the Prospect Park Q/S Station. It allows passengers to go to several different locations from a single stop via the B16, B41, B48, and the Q and S subways. Buses would run via Flatbush Avenue to Lincoln Road, making limited stops only on Flatbush Avenue between Church Avenue and Empire Boulevard.
2) Connecting to the shopping center at Shore Parkway on the B6. From what I understand, this shopping center has several large stores, including a KMart, at the facility. Therefore, the B23 would be extended from the 62 Street M/N/W Subway Station via New Utrecht Avenue, Bay Ridge Avenue, Bay Parkway, Shore Parkway, 28 Avenue, and Cropsey Avenue, terminating at Cropsey Avenue and 25 Avenue. This bus would now gain connections with the B1, B3, B4, B6, B8, B64, and the B82. This also extends the route to an additional trip generator in the shopping center.
3) Increase frequencies. This bus currently runs every 12 minutes during rush hours and roughly every 20-30 minutes off-peak. The frequencies would be boosted to every 10 minutes during rush hours and every 15 minutes off-peak. In addition, 9200 and 9300 series soft seat buses would be used to provide the service. At the Prospect Park Station, the 62 Street Station, and the shopping center, a large sign would be put up with all of the B23's departure times near high-traffic doorways and the outside of the facilities.
4) Issue schedules and make them available. The new schedules would be very close to what Liberty Lines Express and New York Bus Service does with their routes. All of the stops would be listed in the timetable, along with their expected running times. Then, departures from the two endpoints and the 62 Street Stations would be listed in the schedule as well. People can roughly calculate the time that the bus would reach their own stop, making someone a little bit more likely to use it. Then, I would send a batch of schedules to local delis, supermarkets, and laundromats so that people can pick them up on their way out. Not everyone would do it, but it's available if they need it and makes the service more accessible.
That's a start for now.
The B23 is a loser of a line that has been a loser of a line for pretty much its entire existence. Trying to extend it (and instituting both extensions would more than double the end-to-end mileage) is throwing good money after bad. Also remember that the longer a route gets, the less reliable it is likely to be (ask any long-time B11 rider about THAT).
The frequency of service is determined by ridership levels. The B23 barely merits what it's got, let alone more service. As to what buses would be assigned to the route, there are currently no 9200/9300-series soft-seaters in Gleason, and adding them would entail instituting a new parts inventory (for the seats at the very least) at that depot. Moreover, for local routes that use 40-foot equipment, there are no dedicated fleets -- under most circumstances the Yard Dispatcher gives the next bus that's ready to the next Operator who comes up to the booth.
As to schedules (customer timetables, actually), they ARE available. Local libraries carry them, the buses are supposed to have them (yes, I know it's rare), and anyone who wants one and can't find one can write to NYCT and request one. Additionally, each stop is supposed to have a Guide-A-Ride that lists every departure.
David
what was the reason for the B 23 exisiting in the first place if this is a loser route (which I do believe). I mean if the MTA wants to save money. Why just not eliminate it? On the other hand w/ ar. It sounds like a good idea to extend to the Caesar Bay Shopping Area but to Prospect and Lefferts, I don't know. I would think that if anything extended to Flatbush - New York Av via Beverly Rd. Other than that I can't see this route being save. My idea is to take the 16 Av portion of the route and replace it with the B 67. The Corteleyou portion is already covered by B 103. Just add a stop the Q Corteleyou Rd Station
Route B23 has been around a long, long time. In fact, it was the first trolley coach route in Brooklyn. Even then (1920s!), though, it wasn't exactly a "heavy hitter." Over the years its hours of operation have been cut back, though there's still room to cut in that area. Discontinuing the route altogether is always an option, but it would be a last resort.
The B67 taking over the western portion of the B23 is an interesting idea. It would probably be every other trip during the times that the B67 operates at a 15-minute headway or better (for no worse than a 30-minute headway on the 16th Avenue portion), and every trip at other times. I'd have to analyze it to see whether it would save any money.
David
Thank you. I am always trying to find new ways to utalize the bus system
I think it would save the MTA on time and money
If the TA insisted that all of its routes covered all their expenses from the farebox, there'd be very little bus and subway service.
(Anybody know, or have an educated guess, what the TA network would look like in such a case, assuming current demand?)
Subways: All except the G...NYMTC reports that the subways have an operating ratio of 1.04
Bronx buses: BX1, BX2, BX4 fused with BX31, BX5 fused with the BX29, BX7 fused with M100, BX9, BX10 fused with the BX22, BX12, BX15, BX19, BX31, BX36, BX40/BX42, BX55
Manhattan buses: Most of them stay, but the following would die: M8, M9, M21, M22, M30, M57, M106, X25, X90, X92
FUSED buses: M18/M102 (rerouted via 106 Street), M98/BX20 (BX20 would be slashed to rush hours only)
Queens routes: Q1, Q3, Q5, Q17, Q20/Q44, Q24, Q46, Q83
RUSH HOURS ONLY: Q12, Q26, Q27, Q30, Q31, Q85
Brooklyn: B3, B6, B8, B12, B15, B20, B25, B35, B41, B44, B49, B52, B60, B82
RUSH HOURS ONLY: B1, B4, B17, B37, B47, B57, B83
Staten Island: S78 (this is from previous research of mine into the relative profitability of certain routes under private operation)
The routes listed are not necessarily the IMPORTANT routes. This is what could support itself. The ridership on every single line would be substantially lower than current volumes because connectivity would be drastically reduced.
No one would be happy with the above system except Manhattan residents, who wouldn't notice too much. No one in their right minds would advocate for such a system. However, a hybrid network, consisting of our current 231 MTA routes, the 82 NYCDOT routes, and a new network of private, unsubsidized routes could increase ridership on all systems due to better connectivity. A Fordham to Jamaica express bus could connect two important transit centers and improve the commute from Long Island and Queens to the Bronx and Westchester. MANY Long Islanders work in the Bronx and Westchester and would appreciate an express bus connecting Metro-North and the Long Island Rail Road.
While we do not operate the B23 to make money, we do expect the B23 to be a useful option in the community. Any bus service carrying less than 10 people per trip in one of the most densely populated cities in the world needs to be fixed FAST.
Thanks for the interesting information.
It seems like what you're advocating is that the TA and subsidized privates keep the money-losers, while new, unsubsidized companies pick up new money-makers (or at least routes that you think are money-makers -- I'm not convinced). Now, the entire reason the TA runs money-losers in the first place is that it's a transit agency. Shouldn't the TA also be allowed to run money-makers? If not, everybody has to pay greater subsidies to allow the money-losers to stay in service, while a few private companies make profits off the money-makers. Where are those profits coming from? The taxpayers, paying to support the TA's money-losing network.
If we're going to insist the TA and subsidized privates run money-losing routes, we also need to grant the TA and subsidized privates exclusive license to the money-making routes.
Now, if you have any specific ideas for money-making routes that don't currently exist, why not suggest them to the TA? They'll better serve the community and they'll lower our taxes (or free up more money to be spent elsewhere in the transit network).
Your point is well-taken.
1) The MTA & NYCDOT will NEVER allow money to leave the system. Government agencies never like to see leftover cash because they feel that they will get cut back to the bone in subsequent fiscal years. So, your taxes won't go down unless it's an election year.
2) The MTA is not an agency that likes to change course. The agency KNOWS where new service needs to go. In 1993, I saw a report that stated that new transit services should run from Bay Ridge to Flushing and Fordham Center to Jamaica Center. This study was done YEARS before MetroTech and Jamaica Center took off. The MTA will only react when they can't run from something. East Side Access is going forward because NO MORE TRAINS CAN FIT INTO PENN. The X30 would not have run if Academy didn't pull out AND if a new company didn't attempt to restart Forest Avenue. Both of these projects are worthwhile, but none got done until they had no choice.
3) I'm not advocating for the MTA nor for NYCDOT to give up running existing routes that put money in the cookie jar. I'm advocating for allowing new private operators to provide a service that the MTA and NYCDOT could not or would not do. It's not usually a situation where the MTA or NYCDOT would do a route, except that private interest got in the way. It's a situation where MTA and NYCDOT say that the particular services aren't high on their lists, or "we don't see the demand for that service" or "we can't afford it". If a private carrier doesn't run a Bronx-JFK Airport route, it WON'T get done by MTA or NYCDOT either.
4) As you may know, NYCDOT is handcuffed. They can't do anything new to their route system. They legally cannot expand the bus system unless the city is in a state of emergency. They are still waiting on the authorizing resolution from the City Council. Now that the strike is expected to end today, the City Council will now resume saying, "What is a franchise bus again? Refresh my memory."
Your points are valid. Notice I do not advocate the same for Westchester County, even though they have plenty of holes there. Why? The Bee-Line system is a LIVING system. They will try new bus services and extensions. If after a period of six months or one year, those new trials are sometimes canned. Remember the 49 to Armonk? Parts of it now live on in Route 12, and the rest got canned. The 21 extension to Fordham Road lasted six months before it was canned. In 1990, both Playland-specific routes originated in the Bronx. Now the 93 is dead, but the 91 and 92 have joined us. The Bee-Line kept swinging the axe on a politically-connected BxM4D route that was wasting resources until they canned it and passed that equipment off to an exploding BxM4C. Route 84 must have been LOVED inside of the Bee-Line because they kept tweaking that route to keep it alive. When the route could not be saved, they killed it. THIS is the kind of attitude that we need to look at our transit system with. Frankly, trial and error is something the private sector is good at. It's also interesting to note that Bee-Line contracts with Liberty Lines Transit, which may or may not make trial and error cheaper.
There are visionary planners trapped inside of both organizations. They pay the planners to tweak the system and most of their suggestions reach the circular file. Many of these plans are high-quality plans that would make the system better. Unfortunately, private corporations do their best to serve the public, but must watch the bank account while doing so. The MTA does its best to serve the public, but its decision makers must adhere to their political accounts. It's easier to get the money.
"1) The MTA & NYCDOT will NEVER allow money to leave the system ..."
"3) I'm not advocating for the MTA nor for NYCDOT to give up running existing routes that put money in the cookie jar. I'm advocating for allowing new private operators to provide a service that the MTA
and NYCDOT could not or would not do ..."
Why not ? Why not take a couple of TA & private routes & try this ?
I'll bet Mayor Mike might have something to say about that.
Transfering exsisting routes doesn't increase the cost (to the TA or nycDOT or the public).
You know who else would have something to say about it? The unions. As it stands now, I would be looked at as a competitor who would try to eat the whole system.
I didn't say union MEMBERS...just the union as an organization. Mayor Mike can't deal with sensitive issues like that until after November. Wait, there's an MTA contract too, make that January.
Besides, the only companies that get city routes and franchises are companies that have proved their worth in the private sector. If I prove my worth in the private sector, they may be more receptive to my offers in the public sector. Look no further than Atlantic Express to see this.
I didn't say union MEMBERS...just the union as an organization. Mayor Mike can't deal with sensitive issues like that until after November. Wait, there's an MTA contract too, make that January.
When referring to the "privates", it is commonly referred to as the NYCDOT or simply, DOT. Why then, when referring to the city bus agencies, is the STATE _governing agency_ always mentioned? We are the NYCTA, not the MTA. The unions do not negotiate with the state, they negotiate with the city.
The same would apply when discussing the LIRR, Long Island Bus, or the Bridge and Tunnel Authority. They are not classified as "MTA" when speaking of them directly, nor should the bus services of the NYCTA or MaBSTOA.
/shrug
NYCTA is not responsible to the city. They are responsible to the state. The city puts in money, but is not able to exercise the level of input that they would like. City Council members constantly complain about their "lack of control" over NYCTA. Therefore, I refer to you as MTA workers because they call the shots. It doesn't matter where you work or who cuts the check...Albany has the final say where buses go.
If I am mistaken, I welcome corrections.
And that is the only reason why the B 23 would stay because of Boro Park residents. It would effect them the most, however you are right. A route like the B 23 needs ot be fixed and better used as a resource for $$ then a piece of trash.
Queens routes: Q1, Q3, Q5, Q17, Q20/Q44, Q24, Q46, Q83
RUSH HOURS ONLY: Q12, Q26, Q27, Q30, Q31, Q85
You don't happen to be from Jamaica do you?
Nope. I live in Brooklyn :)
Oh right - I was just surprised at how few buses in the Flushing area were on your list. Also I understood that the Q54 and Q55 and to a lesser extent the Q56 were well used.
[The B23 is a loser of a line that has been a loser of a line for pretty much its entire existence]
I remember when the B23 was a trolley bus route in the 1950's. My recollection of it then was that it ran fairly frequently and had decent ridership. While it wasn't the last trolley bus route to be converted to bus (that was probably the B45, B47, B57 and/or B65), it was probably within a few years of the trolley bus's disappearance in NYC. I don't remember when ridership took the nosedive it apparently did.
Well it would have to had happened in the 90s because that is when I saw this route take drastic changes. Here is why I think it has major problems at
1) This bus route has no attraction to customers. THe B 41 Limited when it came out had limited stops at all bus transfer points except Corteleyou Rd, Why?
2)Exception of Rush hours, Corteleyou Road customers don't go as far as McDonald Av and most customers no matter what time usually transfer for the B 68. However it is rear to see anyone on the B 68 transfer onto the B 23
3)16 Av customers has light ridership and only on rush hours where there is at least 3 - 4 buses running in an hour are school kids and they go as far as Coney Island Av
4) Because of the 30 minute waits. U don't see Cortelyou Rd customers waiting on the B 23 unless it happeneds to be arround. And that is the only area that has a bussiness district. So what does that tell u.
5)Weekends overall there is either few people about 6 or there is no one.
6) On the good side the B 23 is a good route for getting at seat on the B 67 during the Am rush. An alternative to the B 35 to get to the B 68 or B 41 local if u can get it
This is why the B103 does poorly off-peak as well. If the buses were increased in frequency, it would certainly draw more passengers. But people prefer not to check the calendar to see when the next bus comes. Can't blame them either.
That is true. Well how can u get a better frequency in a bus route? For the B 23 I would not know. but for the B 103, it needs to have schedules and bus maps put up on guide - a - rides.
Your proposal on the B-23 is very interesting however i have one extenstion in mind.
Extend route from Beverly Road and Flatbush Avenue to the Nostrand Ave/Beverly Road Subway Station as follows:
via current route to Ocean Ave/Corteylou Road then via Corteylou Road,Flatbush Ave,Beverly Road,New York Avenue,Tilden Avenue,Nostrand Ave,Beverly Road and stand
Return via Beverly Road,Flatbush Ave,Corteylou Road and current route
The B-23 will then offer the following:
1-Transfers to and from the B-44 and B-49 routes
2-Connections to the Beverly Road #2 and 5 Subway Station
3-New traffic generators :Sears store at Bedford and Beverly and Holy Cross Cemetary BTW-Prior to 1959 the B-44 had a Shuttle along Tilden Ave from the Cemetary to Nostrand Ave
The B-67 extenstion to New Utrecht Ave while interesting will not generate much traffic due to make up of the area. Again the subway will be faster going downtown then the bus.
I like the idea of a bus going to the Cesears Bay Bazar but extending the B-23 just will not make it in my view
I appreciate any comments
Thank You
Hey lets go for the gusto and extend it to Gateway Ctr!
that was my first proposal look it up. R u trying to steal my ideas!!
"I understand that some people think I'm crazy. And that makes me feel great because the craziest people has done some of the most important things in history."
Well, you won't find me amoung them. When a person takes the time to make some thoughtful remarks, at least the rest of us can do is listen.
I did found one point to criticize:
"I may have to keep a fleet of 30 footers on reserve and rotate them into service around 10pm."
Back in the TROLLEY days (early 1900s) they learned that you cna't make money with two fleets. They were summer & winter.
This is why the LIRR & NJT closes off cars on their trains. Because it's not cost effect to reduce the size of the train, just lock out a few doors & reduce the crew size.
So, 30' vs. 40' ... nah, just run the same bus a little emptyer ... that is unless you were running the shortys somewhere in the day time, then you save some fuel.
Hmmmm ... I had a thought:
This new private operator who is going to make a profit at moving folks throughout the City ... will his drivers accept:
- Transfers ? Maybe you can work the same deal as LI Bus, i.e. get to charge them something.
- MetroCards (guess what the TA won't let you keep 1.50, would you believe you'll only get a little over half) can you make a profit on that ?
- Students: The "free" ones, you won't get 1.50 a piece
- Seniors/Disabled: 75 cents less the TAs service charge
- TA & other "private" operator employees ... how about a cop with a gun ?
Now who's this deal going to be with ? Probally the City, well guess what they are bound to buy only CNG buses, that will increase your cost to maintain your fleet, a lot !
Sorry for the rain on your parade ... this doesn't change my belief that your ideas deserve consideration.
I came up with a blockbuster at 3AM this morning (yeah, I have issues...I may need medication). Greyhound runs a shuttle bus from Brooklyn to Port Authority to connect with other Greyhound routes. New York Waterway runs shuttle buses into Midtown from their ferries. If I run a bus from Staten Island to Manhattan via New Jersey, I can have buses connect with that service, charge no fare for that segment, but require that they have a ticket to or from the Staten Island bus. Whether they make the transfer or not is none of my business :)
Now I can run ANYWHERE I want to, even on top of other services if I wasn't into making lots of money. Since I'd like to make real money, I would find a poorly served or untouched market and CONNECT to a service that I can run now. As long as it connects, it's legal. It's like Railroad Tycoon 2, where you can only lay tracks from your existing line. I AM SUCH AN IDIOT! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE?
Thurston, IIRC, Atlantic Express only has to cough up six percent of their total revenue to MTA. How are they taking half of the base fare from the companies? It is also interesting to find that MTA refers private bus companies to NYCDOT for fareboxes. If it's their system, why would they do that?
We love cops...they make our buses a more secure environment. If they are in uniform, I'll give them a deal. As for TA and other employees...find me some MetroCard fareboxes, a deal equivalent to Atlantic Express for a service charge, and we can initiate a discussion. If I have to run extra buses to provide more comprehensive services, then TA and franchise workers can't get a deal. We can also give seniors, the disabled, and students (elementary, high school, and COLLEGE too) a deal...it won't be free, but maybe 25%-30% off the fare seems reasonable except during peak periods. Peak periods which last 24 hours per day...j/k :D
NOW I have found the key! IT'S ALIVE, IT'S ALIVE! MWAHAHAHAHA!
P.S.-Azumah Transport is now looking for investors. Please e-mail me and let's make it happen.
Is Flatbush & Jackie Gleason the only depots working the Subway Shuttle from Bensonhurst - Coney Island? Because yesterday getting off of the W at Bay Pkwy. to go to my God-Bro's house, I saw nothing but Flatbush & J.G. Buses.
I saw an UP bus last night.
More buses tend to be used from the depots that have their routes closest to the shuttle. For example when the L-Line shuttle was running, it was dominated by mostly Fresh Pond and East New York buses because their routes were the closest to it.. There was only a few(1 or 2 maybe) JG, FLA, UP and 126ST. buses on the L-Line shuttle which ran between BWAY Junct. and Myrtle Av./Wyckoff Av.(where you can many Fresh Pond routes, including my B13).
I was heading up 95 north on Saturday between DC and Baltimore and all of a sudden saw a MARTA bus, must be heading from NY to Atlanta. It looked just like the Orion VII's that have been posted on here. It was storming a bit, and my friend that was driving seemed a little daunted by the storm, so I couldn't really focus too much on the opposing traffic, but it was cool to see it up here. I don't have any idea what the unit number on it was either.
It was probably in the 2100s. The unit that was on display in Decatur County recently was numbered 2101.
Oh ok, thanks. It looked pretty sharp. It almost looked like it was on riding on the shoulder, but couldn't tell since it was storming pretty good.
I saw a Fairfax Connector Orion V heading south on I-81 in central PA back in June...
On Saturday in the New Lots/Utica Avenue IRT Shuttle saw buses from
East New York
Jackie Gleason
Flatbush
Ulmer Park
Fresh Pond
126th Street
On Sunday on the W Line Bay Parkway/Coney Island Shuttle saw Jackie Gleason and Ulmer Park buses. Talking to dispatcher at Bay Parkway and said he had only 5 buses and they were not enough
BTW-Jackie Gleason buses used were RTS
Thank You
Rode the B-82 this past weekend between 86th St and Canarsie on Sunday and noticed the following:
1-Heavy ridership is still on the old B-5 part of the route.
2- Most riders who board the bus between 86th Street and Coney Island Ave get off before Flatbush Ave.
3- There is a good ridership base from Brighton Station at E. 16th St that rides past Flatbush Ave
The problems of the B-82 have been discussed here at several times but i think the following should be implemented
A local/limited stop service such as the Q 20/Q44 be started.
The B-82 should make limited stops between Flatbush Ave and Bay Parkway/86th Street
a local bus should make all stops. Either extend the B-7 from Coney Island Ave to Canal/Cropsey is one possibility but i do not thing its feasible because it will also be too long. The 2nd possibility is to bring back the B-5 as the local service which i believe makes more sense as the heavy ridership is still between Canal/Cropsey and Brigthon Station
Any comments
Thank You
Well the whole B 82 route is screwed up and I think it is one of the worse ideas so far that the MTA created when combining routes. Both halves of the B 82 (the B 5 and B 50) has high ridership. But we all know about this topic so to make long story short. I have to agree that a limited route is strongly needed. The B 6 already proven that Bklyn crossroads routes can handle limited service. I also agree that the Q 20 local/ Q 44 limited format would work better in this situation. However I believe limited service needs to go beyond Flatbush Av but to at least Rockaway Pky Station in Canarsie. I also believe that this can solve any doubts about having the B 82 going to Gateway Plaza which is also needed. Here is my plan.
1) Bring back the B 5 and B 50. To provide shorter split routes for Flatlands Ave and Kings Hwy/ Bay Pkwy.
a) B 82 would run limited service daily between Gateway Center (when opens) and Bensonhurst. Limited service would run between Rockaway Pky Sta and Bay Pkwy/ 86 St as mention before. Night Service the B 82 would make all stops and run between Starett City and Bensonhurst
b) B 50 would run local via Flatlands Ave between Starett City and Midwood - Kings Hwy Sta
c)B 5 would run local between Flatlands and Bensonhurst as it was in its original route and as u propose.
At nights the B 5 and B 50 will not run.
I think this idea would work. These two routes should have not combined.
Any comments
I know one will be that Kings Hwy is too narrow after u pass Ocean Av
If the B 6 can work, why can't this work?
I would not suggest
Thank you for your comments.
However if you create the B-50 again it will result in duplicate service with the B-82 and that will defeat the purpose.
Limited stop service on the B-82 between Flatbush Ave and Rockaway Parkway Station is really not needed. Between Flatbush and Ralph Aves they are only 5 stops. Also you have limited stop service on the B-6 which duplicates the B-82 between Ralph Ave and Rockaway Parkway Station and if you implement my plan the headway on the B-82 will be increased because every other bus will now terminate at Flatbush Ave as the B-5
Limited Stop service on Kings Highway between Bay Parkway and Ocean Ave is workable with the only real problem is between Coney Island and Ocean Aves. If you look at Avenue J it is working even with the congestion
Thank You
"B 82 would run limited service daily between Gateway Center (when opens) and Bensonhurst. Limited service would run between Rockaway Pky Sta and Bay Pkwy/ 86 St as mention before. Night Service the B 82 would make all stops and run between Starett City and Bensonhurst."
This is somewhat similar to the idea I was proposing. I was thinking of having an alternate branch to Gateway Ctr.
Similar to the B 41 format right?
Yes, similar to the B38 and the B41 format.
B38#5065
B41#5075
Could work but i still believe Starett City residents will complain especially during rush hours
Thank You
Unless somebody build a Seaview Avenue bridge, this is the best plan to come up with.
Unless somebody build a Seaview Avenue bridge, this is the best plan to come up with. When I went to the community meeting on the upcoming service changes, there were a lot of complaints of not having an east-west bus route not serving the area around BDC. The B82 could fill both of these needs by getting extended along Flatlands past Pennsylvania.
Yeah put the B5 back in UP running off are way easy then going to JG, FLA, not FP or ENY
So I'm sitting in Bryant Park, using their wireless LAN, and watching traffic go by. How many Hybrids does the TA have? I recall seeing several in the past. In the last 45 minutes, I've only seen one (on the M5). Just about everything else has been Orion V, with the occasional RTS and MCI.
-Hank
[How many Hybrids does the TA have?]
Manhattanville depot (home of the M5) and Mother Clara Hale each have five of the Orion VI hybrids. Hale also has the Orion VII hybrid currently undergoing its 30-day test on the Bx-19. I guess the RTS hybrid hasn't been on the property in quite a while and, from what I recollect, will not be returning.
Normally on the S92 would be a 35 foot bus like the 9600's series. Instead, on Friday (8/2) I saw bus #9731 on the S92. A 30 foot bus. That's weird to see a 30 ft bus on a normally 35 ft route but I guess a bus broke down or something. They could have borrowed a 2000 series Gillig from up the island like in Babylon or Hauppauge.
#9731 - S92 (Easthampton to Orient Point via Riverhead)
#9726 - S10E (Hampton Bays Shuttle)
There are many possibilites as to why a swap wasn't made. The breakdown could have happened very suddenly with no time to make a swap. Could all of the 35 footers been in use (or out for maintenance) and none available? Could the operator of the S92 spared a bus driver and a "chauffer" to get to the other yard to pick up the spare and return?
Also remember that Suffolk County owns the buses and gives them to private contractors to run. Perhaps the rules governing swaps are too cumbersome for the contractor and he said 'forget it' if it was to be a one or two day problem.
Is the S-92 a standing room only situation with 35 footers. If not whats the difference whether a smaller or larger bus is used. Call Suffolk Transit and ask them if what was done is allowed under the contract. If not I'd hope some penalties are built into the agreement.
Okay, first.....calm yourself. I was just noticing the change, that's all. No harm done.
Thank you.
I work at Suffolk Transit. My operator is Suffolk Bus/Suffolk Transportation Service more correctly named out of the other four operators who run the buses also. We have two bus yards out here. One is at Bayshore and the other is at Pond Road in Ronkonkoma. When our buses breakdown, the bus is easily swapped out for one closest in vancity of that set yard. For example, the S-40 bus # 9920 (Orion) goes to Patchogue Rail and had a breakdown in the parking area, Then that bus goes to Pond Road for repair and the driver gets a bus #9653 (Gillig) from there. The S-40 is a Bayshore bus. So what ever bus that guy gets would go back with him to Bayshore at the end of the day. They keep it until the repairs are made then it goes back to Bayshore. Also I notice when Suffolk Bus swaps, they try to swap out the same length bus that broke down. 30 footer for a 30 footer 35 footer for a 35 footer.
I think the county really wanted 35 footers out because of low ridership. Half the time I see only three people on the buses out here. They only got 40 footer Gilligs for the beach and for runs on Suffolk Avenue (sometimes)
I saw Orion 109 the other day, and it seemed to me that the roll sign box in the lower windshield, where the run number is displayed, was a good deal larger than I have previously seen in other Orions. Has anyone else noticed it? Anybody know why?
Knowing you, it was probably your imagination.
LOL....that's my boy! (Or did I just imagine him?)
You also imagined the veal dinner you had at Amore tonight. ;-)
I would like to know how many years where the express bus fare on the DOT and MTA Express Lines where? And how about the 1/2 Fare and the Express Bus Tokens?
Seniors get half fare off-peek only (all times on local routes).
The Express token went into history when the Cubic box arrived, it wouldn't fit (althought I still see lots of activity of it ... just one of the farebox errors that isn't on the TA/Cubic radar screen).
The x-bus token is the one NYCT token I don't have in my collection.
-Hank
E-mail me privately ... maybe we can trade for some MetroCards.
BTW Only have a couple left for those that might also want one.
How about the 10 Ride Tickets that was used on the DOT Express Lines before the 10 Ride TravelCard?
POst any information you might have.
Yes, the X23 and X24 are coming to SI in November.
Huh? They already exist, and have been running since September 2001 (and a bit before that prior to the contract kicking in)
-Hank
I made up some dates so that someone will answer busfan. He isn't very popular around here, and I haven't a clue why ;).
Please reread the posts about the X23 and X24. Your questions have been answered.
I usually don't answer "Busfan," and I usually don't address my comments to a specific person, but I will this time because I've had my fill.
"Busfan," DON'T START NEW THREADS ABOUT THINGS WE'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!! You only ask questions, never providing answers, opinions, or insights of any kind, and almost exclusively seem to ask questions under new threads that are based on things you've just read on the board. Starting new threads only confuses things, and the way you phrase your questions indicates that you're only skimming the answers instead of READING them, since you're asking a question that was JUST ANSWERED -- so READ THE POSTS!!!!!
David
Post any information you might have.
Yes, this will happen in January.
If you contribute some depot space, maybe. Otherwise, no.
I finally ran back across an old article I found some time ago in Time Magazine's March 30, 1981 issue. Beginning on pg. 12 is an article on America's decaying mass transit systems, and on p. 14 is a full-color article on the Grumman recalls, complete with front shot photos of suburban Chacago units in silver with red and blue striping.
The article is titled, "Can Anyone Fx Those Flxibles?" and goes to a good length about NYCTA's problems with the buses, and how WMATA supplied New Looks to fill in for them during the recall.
Most libraries keep these bound for several years; check it out sometime. I also found a pic in an earlier issue (same year) of the motorcade for the released hostages from Iran. In it, a whole convoy of WMATA 8xxx-series Flx New Looks is shown going down the streets of D.C.; this is some good stuff.
-Fred
[on p. 14 is a full-color article on the Grumman recalls, complete with front shot photos of suburban Chacago units in silver with red and blue striping]
I remember seeing those units in Chicago. I forget whether PACE had been formed by then, but they ran on PACE routes. After the recall and fix, I don't think they lasted in suburban Chicago very long (or at all). Don't know where they wound up second-hand.
It sure would be nice to find out where they went to; they sure were nice-looking buses, especially with that silver paint scheme. Kind of reminds me of the DeLorean from "Back To The Future". Don't forget to set the "Flx capacitor"! :)
-F.
Or is this true & if it is true & you didn't make this up, where did you get this information from.
MtA.InFo
All of this information was previously posted on BUSTALK.
Here's a hand: PLUG X23 AND X24 INTO A SEARCH ENGINE. PUT STATEN ISLAND IN AS WELL. PUT EACH IN ITS OWN QUOTES: FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WOULD ENTER "X23","STATEN ISLAND","BUS" TO LOOK FOR X23. THEN, YOU REPLACE X23 WITH X24 TO SEARCH THE X24 AND X35 TO SEARCH THE X35.
I may sound a little grumpy, but you should not ask a question on BusTalk unless you cannot find the info after a search attempt because we have covered more topics here than can fit in Einstein's brain.
Happy searching!
He can read!
to those on bus talk who email me about the flexible,sorry :-(, bus sold to flixble. However, i do have a corgi new look from DC Transit that i do not want. first person to email me at vautrin179@aol.com with a price he or she is willing to pay, the bus is theirs. it must be sent to me via personnal check. figured id let all of you know.
For those of you who remember the movie, Robert DeNiro played a bus driver. One scene in the movie shows him and his son at the end of the line at Orchard Beach in a GM old look. He has his son help him clean up the bus before starting back on his run.
That bus is up for sale by a movie supply company.
Its auction number is 1848249984. The bus is still in the same livery as the movie and is located somewhere in "Joisy". The bus serial number is TDH4512-2738 making the first owner the Philly Transit agency.
Disclaimer - I am not associated in anyway with the Seller or E-bay.
I believe a second bus that appeared in "A Bronx Tale" is owned by Double A. Did anyone see it on Saturday up in Rocky Hill, CT?
Hey folks; just wanted to let you know we finally have a new website with our own domain...it is www.commonwealthcoach.com and features our logo, along with a pic of our newly restored Grumman 870 from Roanoke and PenTran Flxible New Look.
We plan to build more on the site soon with more photos and archives of our equipment, so please be patient. In the meantime, you may also visit our old web link at www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html.
Enjoy!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Have bookmarked your site at Roanoke, VA
Took notice of the nice babe in front of the 1973 Fishbowl !
That's what we need more young people interested in the hobby, or was she just with Daddy because he promised to take her to the video store latter < G >
Er...were you referring to the person standing by the Flx New Look? That was ME back when I had long hair. Good thing I cut it! >:o
And actually, there was a girl there with me when I shot the photos that day. I used to have one or two pics of her standing in front of the Baby Fishbowl but I have since thrown those away because one day she didn't want to go to the video store with me anymore. Hey, at least the bus is still around! :)
-F.
Well, pardon me all to Hell !
I was a week-end Hippy back in the 60's (did a lot or walking around the Village back then). But the real ones made me all the time with my short hair. It was aleways fun trying to figure out who were the real Hippys vs. NYU students, or impostors like myself.
Didn't go to Woodstock either :-(
Oh man...I would have LOVED to go to the real Woodstock. I almost made 94, but plans changed; as we all know, Woodstock 99 was a farce and I am glad I didn't go. And yeah...it was kind of hard to spot me under all of that hair!
Sounds like you had a similar experience to what I had in high school; trying to figure out the real hippies. We had a lot of preppy jocks in tie-dye who had all of Jimi Hendrix's albums, yet didn't know what he even sounded like. And they were really militant and hateful as well. What fakes.
-F.
Your mention of Woodstock made me ponder what I would do if I could time travel back to 1969. First off, if I arrived there in time, I would fly to London to watch The Beatles perform their rooftop concert on Saville Row. Also, I would watch the last season of the original Star Trek series every week until the very end. For financial security, I would buy up a buttload of IBM stock and sit on it until I get back to our present time. I would catch a few Jets games to watch Joe Namath play.
Later in the year, I would of course go to Woodstock. During this whole time I would travel America to take in the sights and ride the buses in the big cities--Chicago, New York, Cleveland...anywhere that was running Fishbowls and Flxibles. Speaking of Flx, I would go to Loudonville and see if they offer a factory tour a la the Big Three in Detroit. Then it's off to the South to take in a few NASCAR races.
Sometime in the year I would go to see the premiere of "Easy Rider" in the cinema. Oh yes, and I'd also go to Broadway and see "Hair".
Also, throughout this time I would check out the scene at Haight-Ashbury and then go east to Greenwich Village, getting heavily acquainted with every good looking hippie chick I can find all the while. Of course I would have to go somewhere and watch the moon landing...hell, why not go out to watch the rocket take off beforehand. If there are any bus toys and models around (i.e. the big tin litho Fishbowls) I would buy up several and come back to custom paint them for all of you.
Another crowning point of this time travel? I would go down to the Ford dealer and test drive a Mach 1 Mustang just for kicks. After that, I would go down to the Dodge dealership and buy a brand-new Dart Swinger. :)
-F.
I know one of the Nova Buses have a LED Sign that tells you the Time & Everything, Why wasn't this feature installed on every Nova Bus, New Flyer & Orion Buses?
Customer Option $$$$
-Hank
This bus is 9624 from Quill. It was presented at some APTA conference and used as the demo bus.
but is 9624 ever in passenger service? i never seen this bus running on the Quill routes before.im dyin to ride it some day
When are the new artic coming to manhatten. I'm hearing so many rumor out here. 100 street depot not opening until next year. Will 100 artic be coming to the depot september, october, november, december or i don't know? I haven't seen any artic on the m15 route are those 4 artic still on the m15 line or are they back to the bronx routes?
Where is Manhatten?
-Hank
Right next to the island of Booklin.
It's where you can find Madision Avenue, Hank.
Now, now, everybody was in 2nd grade at one time or another!
North of Manhatnine and south of Manhateleven.
Peace,
ANDEE
Andee, you are one funny son-of-a-gun...I tell ya...ROFLMAO
I come from the Brawnkx, lived there, born there, and not leaving Neu Yawk anytime soon...
Cleanairbus
PS., Stat-en Eye-lin is NOT a borough, just joking
as a matter of fact stat-en eye-land is an optometry store in the borough of richmond.
WHY DON'T THE M10 HAVE ARTIC ON THERE ROUTE?
Route M10 does not have articulated buses because NYCT's Department of Buses has not deemed it necessary to assign them there. Should that change, articulated buses will be assigned there.
David
The route might have to be modified in that case. I'm not sure if the artics would be able to make the left turn from 63rd onto Broadway. And doesn't the M10 make a u-turn at its north terminal? (I've never ridden it that far up so I may be wrong.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it been mentioned several times that artics make turns just as easy or even easier than RTS's? From what I heard and saw, the rear section just follows along normally after the front section turns.
You're right that 63rd and Broadway probably wouldn't be an issue, then. But a u-turn? If it's a clean u-turn, no problem, but if it's a three-point turn, the length of the vehicle comes into play.
When will the new buses come to Jackie Gleason depot?
There is no firm time table set on when Jackie Gleason will be getting more new buses. In fact there is no firm time table when anybody will be getting anything period! Quite frankley, Gleason depot has one of the youngest average age's for bus fleets in the system, behind Casey Stengel. They really don't need any more new buses sent to them right now. Ulmer Park and Fresh Pond can really use some newer equipment and should be the first in line, with Jamaica and QV to follow. (local buswise that is)
BIG AL
[Gleason depot has one of the youngest average age's for bus fleets in the system, behind Casey Stengel. They really don't need any more new buses sent to them right now]
That may be true, but until another CNG depot opens up, when the Orion VII CNG deliveries start, they will have to go to Gleason.
Queens Village is slated to receive the Low Floor Orion within the next 45 days, so said Depot Assistant General Manager Tom Charles in a "rap session" held at the garage last week.
The Division is also currently exploring feuling and maintenance requirements to house the articulated models, where they have been pre-designated to run on the Q-44. There is no known time frame for the agenda, however.
Which Orion 7 will it be? Hybrid or CNG? Personally I think JG should get the 5000 series equipment back (5230-5249).
We're not getting any CNG buses. At least not for a long while. I believe it's the Hybrid Low Floor, if such an animal exists.
Let's face it, FP is hopeless. A 3 and a half year drought, without seeing anything newer than 1987. At least Ulmer Park gets new MCI's. Now I know I stated this 100 times, and I'll say it again, Fresh Pond is still a dumping ground for crap. I hope Gun hill's Novas come here, it would be nice to see less of those damn 4600's/4700's. I swear those 3900's/4600's at Kingsbridge better not come here.
Oh well, at least Fresh Pond riders will gets to enjoy the newest subways cars first,(R143) when they come to the M-Line.
FP has 1996 & 1997 Nova Buses there.
Ulmer Park got the MCI's because they have the Express lines. You can't really compare that. The main problem with Fresh Pond is it is only able to take diesel buses right now. And as you know, Transit is not ordering any more diesel buses. Fresh Pond was only short changed when the 4901-5249 series buses arrived. Prior to that they were receiving new buses like everybody else. Jamaica depot will be running into the same situation minus the MCI's. Unless the depot is converted, like Fresh Pond needs to be, to be able to maintain hybred electrics or CNG, they will not be seeing any new local buses for a long long time.
BIG AL
If Fresh Pond can't even hold an regular CS orion, then how is it possible for them to store a Hybrid Orion? Besides, I don't want the newest buses in Fresh Pond(if they aren't RTS). I'm just saying Fresh Pond barely gets anything changed. Their fleet stood the same for aLmost a year! I don't care if they only get 10 RTS buses newer than 1987, that's better than nothing, and I would settle for that(9229-9249 would fit FP perfectly).
Since the 4600's/4700's aren't going to last forever(thank God they arent getting repowered) I will be watching carefully as they slowly dissappear.
It's strange that their saving their 3900's for the school season, they aren't even going to last long. FP should be given 10 newer buses instead of "preserving" what they're forced to hold.
-Jay
what about Ulmer Park? are they to get the remaining 4800's that Manhattanville has (#4793-#4799)?
***what about Ulmer Park? are they to get the remaining 4800's that Manhattanville has (#4793-4799)?***
Hmmm...those sound like 4700's to me. Anyway, as mentioned many times now, nothing has been decided on who's going to get what. I know somebody posted that Fresh Pond is supposed to be receiving 8500's from somewhere according to a memo a top transit official wrote.
My advice. Believe it when you see it!
BIG AL
i meant the following buses actually:
4792-4799=assigned to manhattanville.
4873-4879=assigned to Hudson-this makes better sense to send these to Ulmer Park anyway.
B1-#9315-NOVABUS
Stengal is younger on average than either Yukon or Castleton?
-Hank
Stengel may be younger than Yukon but no way does it have a lower average age than that of Castleton. Then again, this is splitting hairs a little bit, don't you think?
Mark
why don't michael quill depot, artic buses run on the m42 and the m10?
Artics don't run. They walk.
Not much today, but i did end up riding the F6 to get back to P.G. Plaza. It was 4273 which is based out of landover. the destination display on the front and sides were out completely (damn Vultron signs!). no paper on the winshield indicating a route, which was odd. Also the Stop Requested cords for some reason were not working so the ride from Silver Spring to P.G Plaza was long and full of ppl yelling at the driver to stop.
also saw 9305 (metro-b with metro-d back) on the 80 to fort totten near Union Station.
i now have my first dislike for the C40lf. I nearly slipped and fell off the second step in the back of 2421 while on the 80. i got so used to one step like on the orion VI. luckily i didnt drop my camera.
Not good; must be the rubber used specifically for that bus. I would make someone aware of that as it is a safety hazard.
What are the diffrences between the diffrent flx metro's?
The differences are as follows:
Metro "A" (1983-86): Basically looks like a Grumman 870 with Dodge-style crosshair "grille" and sliding side windows.
Metro "B" (1987-91): Same as above, only most of these feature tri-color taillights as opposed to the two-color setup on earlier models.
Metro "C" (1991-92): No major changes from the Metro "B" that I am aware of.
Metro "D" (1993-94): Features squared-off rear end at a 90 degree angle, as opposed to the slight slant found on earlier models. Also, twin round chrome exhausts are found at the upper left on the back of the A/C cover on some models. Another distinguishing feature is that many of these feature the chrome Flxible script emblem in the very center of the A/C grille, as opposed to the top left corner emblem.
Metro "E" (1994-96): The last Metro produced. Looks very similar to the Metro "D". Many of these came with small, round LED rear lights in lieu of the "wraparound" lights found on most models.
Fellow Flx spotters, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this; I'm just going by what I know so far.
-Fred
In WMATA's fleet, at least, the Ds tend to have roof-mounted a/c units which add a slight hump to the silhouette. The Es have straight roofs.
C
The roof-mounted a/c on WMATA's 9700s and 9800s was their options as a customer. It so happens that roof-mounted HVAC became more popular at the time of the Ds and Es, but Flxible built Metro Bs with roof-mounted units as well, and there were plenty of Ds with rear-mounted systems.
NG
True...and many older buses, i.e. NYCTA RTSes of the early 80s, have been retrofitted with the roof units.
-F.
Some of the very first RTSs had large roof-mounted radio anntenna units, but all NYC RTSs have always had rear-mounted a/c. You might be confusing this with the NYC New Looks, some of which had the radio unit and were later fitted with roof-mounted a/c.
Actually, I was referring to the large Sutrak units mounted at the very center of the roof. Some of the 1981 RTSes were retrofitted with these, and I also knew about the radio scoop on those. IIRC, I saw pics of Grummans with them in NYC as well. And also, I have seen pics of the Blitz New Look rebuilds which had an additional roof-mount AC.
-F.
The only NYCT RTS I know of with a roof-mounted air conditioner was 1237, a 1981 RTS-4. We discussed the bus here a few weeks ago. As far as I am aware, it was original equipment on the bus. It didn't last long.
David
i remember being on this bus way back in 1982. it was assigned to the B41 bus.
So the bus was actually fitted with a Sutrak new in 1981?
Wow, what kind of Flxible was that? Also, it seems wierd that Metrobus would let a bus go like that. Now, a metro B with a D back? Is metro rebuilding their Bs that way?
it's only a couple of Metro-B's that got rehabbed with the D/E back. All of the other have their regular slightly sloped back. I was thinking that 9305 and 9349 mave have had some body damage at the rear and were retrofitted with the D/E end.
Wayne
What could possibly damage them that high? An overhead clearing?
Possibly a yard accident or a collision with one of Ride-On's cutaways, which have the cabover bulkhead that might cause damage up high.
Just speculation.
C
I just tried Pepsi Blue for the first time today; not bad at all. Not sure if many people here consume spirited beverages, but here is a neat concoction I came up with. Take a shot of Skyy vodka and mix it up with an equal amount of Pepsi Blue, and add a pinch of 7-Up.
I nicknamed it the "Baltimore Flx". The color of the Pepsi reminds me of the MTA's vivid blue stripe, and the result is smooth and sweet, just like riding in a Flxible Metro. :)
Try it today; just don't get carried away!
-F.
LOL..................sounds like something I would like to try.
Tony M.
Go for it, Tony...it's great stuff. Just don't drink a Baltimore Flx and then go out and drive one.
-F.
What the hell is Pepsi blue? I never heard of it. Is this something that just came out that is not yet available in the NYC area?
BIG AL
I took a double take when I saw it the other day. It looks like a smurf got caught in the blender and was bottled. My g/f says it tastes like cotton candy. I say it looks and tastes like washer fluid.
Actually, it's not bad; my favorite color is blue, so I love it. It smells a lot like Berry Blue Kool-Aid and tastes like a flavored seltzer.
What I REALLY don't like is the new Red Fusion Dr. Pepper; that stuff is HEINOUS and tastes like crap. You might as well drink dishwater.
-F.
I actually enjoy Red Fusion Dr Pepper. To me, it's sort of an "easier going down" version of Dr Pepper. And I'm used to diet soda.
Hmm...yeah, diet is OK sometimes. The Red Fusion was just so watered down when I had it though.
If it's anything like that Berry Blue Soda Pathmark sells in the generic 3-liter bottle, I'm sure I'm gonna love it (as soon as it hits the NY area) :o)
Really? Never had that one. Sounds really good!
-F.
It is a new berry-flavored cola made by Pepsi; I'm surprised it hasn't hit NYC yet as you guys get EVERYTHING before we do. Then again, we got our Grummans in 1979, a whole year before they arrived at NYCTA. But yeah, it's pretty good stuff, and a surprisingly good mixer.
-F.
Pepsi Blue is available here in the New York area. I haven't tried it yet. Thanx Flx for the description.
You bet; it's good stuff. I recommend it.
-F.
Went into Pathmark near my house last night and asked for Pepsi Blue. The clerk who was stocking the sodas said he never heard of it. I did buy the P.M. generic blue soda which I've bought before and is very good. Today while in Flushing booking the Q58, I walked into a deli looking for anything to drink and not even thinking of Pepsi Blue and there it is staring at me. Pepsi Blue. So I bought a bottle. My opinion: Not bad, but not great either. I didn't hate it but I wouldn't buy it again. Especially with Wild Cherry Pepsi and Pepsi Twist on the market. If I really feel the need for blue, I'll stick with the Pathmark blue soda.
BIG AL
Al, I just had another Pepsi Blue today and the taste gets better each time...just some getting used to. Also, I got a big gallon of generic blue raspberry drink for lunch today and I thought of you. What a savings...1.05 for a gallon versus 1.03 for 20 oz. of Pepsi Blue.
-F.
Bought one at the Stadium Plaza (where HBLR was supposed to terminate) Pathmark yesterday.
I'll stop at the Pathmark by my house within the next two days and see if I can find this stuff. Pepsi is my favorite softdrink but I love drinking anything blue, so this sounds rather interesting to me.
BIG AL
Same here; I love drinking blue stuff. It intrigued me.
-F.
Post any information you might have on this.
Because they wanted to make it less confusing when the TA takes over.
Wow, a question that HASN'T already been answered!
The numbers were chosen to fit the existing scheme of Staten Island x-bus routes. 'SM 1' just wouldn't work.
As for why not 'AE'...Are any of the Queens Surface or Triboro routes 'QS' or 'TB'?
-Hank
Yeah, I know.
Those routes were originally labeled AE1 and AE2, but were changed about 3-4 weeks before start-up. These buses are eventually supposed to be turned over to the MTA after three years, but it may not happen because the MTA has no space to park or maintain any more buses. NYCDOT is PRAYING that MTA will pick them up.
The B66, a combination of the B64 & 74.
The TA tried several times to make this change. Each time the community was against it
Thank You
The B34, a combination of the B25 & 83.
Interesting...very interesting. Starrett City would get a second bus to Downtown Brooklyn. You would need limited-stop to get the most benefits here, however.
But I like this one.
The route will not be feasible because it will be too long.
Do you want another B-82 mess
Thank You
It will not happened? It is too long!! i thaught we learned about long bus routes. the B 83 however combined with Q 24 to Bushwick (Bway portion) might work .
The Bx37, a combination of the Bx27 & 35.
Again too long see my comments on Route # 2
Thank You
The M40, a combination of the Bx20, M100, & the M35.
Another good one. Timekeeping could be a pain, though.
Forget this one completely.
The M-100 at one time operated to the Bronx via the current Bx-7 . It was several years ago that the M-100 was made shorter.
Also if you merge the M-35 and the M-100 you can create service problems if a bus gets stuck on the Bridge. Now if something happens then one line gets messed up if you merge the routes then you really got a mess
Thank You
The Q51, a combination of the B54 & Q55.
Again the TA tried to do this several times and it was shot down due to intense community opisition
Also want another B-82
Thank You
Listen, I live close to the Q55. And trust me, Myrtle Av. is torture during rush hours, usually you will see 2 buses back-to-back. The B54 is not as bad as Q55, but it still has problems at rush hours. Most people that ride the Q55 from Palmetto St. usually don't go past 70St. in Glendale.
Don't make this another mess like the Q58.
ok, not to sound rude or anything...but what the hell is so fascinating about combining routes? The situations you posed would either face community opposition or create problems with timekeeping or elongation of already long and working routes...
I think you have been too excited about the combining of the B13/18 services and the B40/78 services.
Cleanairbus
Some of the proposed changes listed in the past are indeed very intersting. When the TA changes routes it does so for many reasons.
1-New ridership generators
Some recent examples the Q-76 and the creation of the Q-20 20th Ave branch due to the new shopping centers in College Point. Because of the opening of the new Gateway Plaza Mall in Spring Creek you will see changes in Southeast Brooklyn bus service
2-Eliminate duplicate service
Some recent examples the B-43 created by merging the B-47 and B-62 eliminated duplicate service on Flushing Ave and ended service on Throop Ave when nearby service on Broadway is available and the B-82 created by the merger of the B-5 and B-50 which has been the greatest mess in the TA history.
3-Eliminate unnessceary service
Because of ridership changes why have service when nobody uses it
ie:the B-18 on Cypress Ave,B-40 service on Liberty Ave and the old B-33 Hamilton Ave. Lets face it with ridership is growing in leaps and bounds if routes lose ridership then maybe a route is not needed especially if alternate service is nearby
4-Make routes shorter because of traffic and neighborhood conditions
Some recent examples the M10/M20 and the M100/Bx7
To combine two routes into one because both routes share a common terminal just does not make sense. Look at the B-82 mess. Ridership can be heavy at one end and not that heavy at the other end. TRaffic can prevent buses from running the full route and supervision cuts service short to make service available at one end
When proposing route changes we should look at the overall idea. What may be good on paper may not work well
Just my opinion
Thank You
This is true, but the NYCDOT als has a responsibility to attempt to improve traffic flows along with the NYPD's traffic division. Routes such as the B35 become irregular in the same zones each day because double-parking (particularly by delivery vehicles) turns two lanes into one.
While you are correct that we can't just stick two routes with a common endpoint together, we can and should address traffic problems that can be fixed. Priority lanes on the Triboro Bridge for bus and taxi traffic could allow the cost of providing those services to come down. I believe that a bi-directional Queens-Midtown Tunnel and Long Island Expressway bus priority corridor could save the city upwards of $1 million in traffic control and bus operating cost. If we want ways for the companies to pay back the loans, there's a start.
The Bx20 fusion with the M100 could work if traffic flows are improved along 125 Street. That would also help the M101, the Bx15, and the M60. We can lower the operating cost and improve service for four routes by improving a few miles of 125 Street. That is something that is reasonable to ask.
Therefore, I believe that an M35, M100, and Bx20 fusion can work. In fact, the MTA could try it tomorrow by interlining on a temporary basis and building in pad time BETWEEN routes to see how much pad time is used. Having that information, the MTA can then determine whether it is feasible or not.
Interlining is done in Westchester with through trips allowed. One or two Route 15 buses are interlined with a Route 16 trip and passengers can ride through with no charge. I would like to see that happen on the Q9A and Q21 in Queens for starters.
You are missing the point
The M-100 was split into two routes because the northern(Bronx)part had different ridership patterns than the Manhattan part. If traffic delays on part of a route it can effect the whole route because a driver will cut short before they reach a terminal and put themselves back in place. This creates a gap in service at one part of the line.
The reason that the driver has to be put back in place could be for various reasons. It can be a swing trip or the end of the day. While not having a driver cut short to maintain headways at one end of a route can only mess up a route even more.
Look at the M100/Bx7 and the M10/M20 splits and see how well they worked and then look at the B-82 mess.
Look at the Q20/Q44 where a Local and Limited stop look well.
Get the whole picture. In your own words the M35/M100/Bx20 merger will never work for the reasons you outlined
Thank You
Any order been handed down with regard to the possible transfer of buses from ENY to JG for usage on the B8 come 09/08?
That kind of stuff usually happens the weekend that the change is to take effect. Probably the memo hasn't been written yet, seeing as we're about a month away from implementation.
David
Thank you. If by chance you happen to come across any information with regard to this move before then, I would be grateful if you can share it here.
I personally think that they will be transferring buses over there.
i know flatbush is to get 15 more buses. where they come from is not known yet.
Flatbush Should get more buses because they are getting the B47 Line, BTW-I rode Bus #5123 and that bus must of been tuned up for good performance, because that engine was moving.
here's the breakdown:
metro-b:
it's the oldest of the series. here in DC, they are the 5100, 8700, 8800, 8900, 9200, 9300, and 9400 series. All of them can be identified by a sloped rear back (as opposed to the d and e series)
5100 series
30 ft long and i believe 96 inches wide.
8700 "
the first of metro's 40 foot, 102" wide buses. they have no wheel chair lifts and have a small sliding driver's window. most, but not all are refurbished. has Trans-Dot destination signs.
8800 "
same as 8700's but with wheelchair lifts and possibly different engine/tranny combo than 8700's. most, but not all are refurbished. has Trans-Dot destination signs.
8900 "
see the 8800 series. 8900 supposedly has a large sliding driver's window like the forthcoming 9200 series.
9200 "
the first metro-b's with rear destination signs and large sliding driver's window, otherwise, same as the 8XXX series. low numbered 9200's are 102" with W/C lift while the higher numbered ones are 96" with no wheelchair lift
9300 "
All are 102" wide and 40' long and have W/C lift. Has Gulton destination signs. most, but not all are refurbished. 9305 and 9349 for some reason has a metro-d-e rear.
9400 "
most, but not all are refurbished.
low numbered 9400's are 102-40-W/C lift
mid to high numbered 9400's- 96-40-no W/C lift
very high 9400's- 102-35-W/C lift and only run in VA.
metro-d
9700 "
the next generation of the metro series. has non-sloped rear and tailpipes at top left of A/C access panel at rear of bus. Ours have roof mounted A/C's. the window frames are thicker on this and the e series. it is 102-40-with W/C. we have Luminator Mega Max dest. signs, i believe most, but not all are refurbished.
9800 "
see 9700, but with diff interior lighting and engine/trannies. some are outfitted with suburban seating.
metro-e
4000-4100
the last of the flxible buses before they went under. same as d series but has chimney style tailpipe on roof unlike d series. its 102-40-W/C with Luminator MegaMax signs. all i beleieve are refurbished.
hope this helps.
8909 is the only group from 8700-8925&8950-8975 that has a sliding driver's window.
All of the 9700s, 9800s and recently 4000-4100s have been rehabbed.
I couldn't get on the board because of difficulties, I think from AOL,
so here is what I saw the past two days.
8/5/02
2411-Was spotted leaving Lafayette Square. This might have been an X2
but I know that this route doesn't use low floor buses until late
at night. It was deadheading back to Bladensburg.
9444-On the 13B heading towards the Pentagon
8846-Heading towards Bladensburg, probably left Landover and a rare
non-New Flyer sighting on the 83 or 86 was Metro B 8845. These
two routes have almost always have used CNGs
8/6/02
5165-Where the usual "WASHINGTON METROPOLITAN AREA TRANSIT AUTHORITY"
has "METROOPENS DOORS.COM" on the back. The only other bus tha
has this on the back is NABI 5212
4395-Seen on the F12. On a similiar note, when the 4200-4400s were
being delivered, now "SMARTMOVER" 4404 was running on the A12
5165-Where the usual "WASHINGTON METROPOLITAN AREA TRANSIT AUTHORITY"
has "METROOPENS DOORS.COM" on the back. The only other bus tha
has this on the back is NABI 5212
I've never seen this; thanks for pointing it out. I'll definitely look for both units.
On the subject of 51xx buses . . .
Has 5165 been repainted? And where is Metro's 30096 Metro-B fleet these days? I haven't seen many since they were pulled from Bethesda-8 duty (and Ride-On paint), but I feel a special affinity for these buses because for four or five years I rode them twice daily on the M4 and E6 lines (primarily 5169-5174). I know some of them were in Virginia for a while, and I assume some are out at Landover now, but does anyone know what other depots have them? They're completely gone from Western (and have been since '98, when they were superceded by the 3900 30-foot Orion Vs and, a year later, by the Orion IIs).
C
Those WMATA 30096 Metro B's are still around. Those that were at Ride-On are now in WMATA's new paint scheme. I often see them around Hyattsville areas. There are still a few of them in VA as well.
Wayne
Yeah, I've still been seeing some running around with the Smartmover ads on them. 5155 comes to mind. Some of them were used on the 14T and W which no longer exist.
I don't know VA routes too well, but twice recently I've seen a 515X on Nutley Road in Fairfax.
Also - On Monday I was in Rosslyn and I saw the 35102 Metro-B with the wrap-around lights. It was indeed 9490 on the 3A. I was tempted to hop aboard - especially since Monday was a code red day, but I was waiting to meet my lunch date.
Wayne
The Nutley Street bus was most likely the 2W which is a Vienna area circulator route. I did see one on the 2B and the 1C recently, which was odd since those are high patronage routes. I saw a wrap around light 35 footer as well the other day. I think it was 9495. I wonder why those are just stationed in VA. A few DC and MD routes would make good use of the 35 footers.
That's Virginia for you...most every bus here is a 35-footer. And cities that do have 40-footers in their fleet here also have a sizable amount of 35s.
-F.
Fairfax Connector seems to be the exception to the 35-ft/40-ft fleets of Virginia. Fairfax does have a few 30-ft Orions, but the fleet is mainly dominated by 40-ft RTS and Orions (I & V).
I don't know what depot has the F2, but I was thinking that one thing the other night when I was waiting for the bus at Tacoma. Where were they? Were they retired or not? Then, one 30ft B came into the terminal, and luckily, it was on the F2! Brought back old memories-I hadn't ridden one of those in the longest time. But, I guess they are basically for weekday service, and for weekends, the Orions take over basically. I know one thing about Metro-they don't really replace their buses that often with another type of bus-this can be proved with the New Looks and the RTSs.
Most of the ones that are in the new paint scheme run on from either the New Carrolton Station or Cheverly, though once I spotted one on the V14 at Addison Road. You can see them on the 84, F12, F13, F1 and the B25. Some others run in Southeast along with the Orion V 30'
(they replaced the Gilligs). A few run from Bladensburg and in Virginia (most of Virginia's 30' are now Orion V).
A Local Commercial For A Phoenix Dairy Co Shows A Houston Metro NABI?
I wonder why since the Company only operates in Arizona why there not using A Phoenix Valley Metro Or Tucson Suntrans Bus?
Because the commercial was produced in Houston, not Arizona; or they used stock footage. Having not seen the commercials...
Check the landmarks...
-Hank
For those of you who haven't ridden this "express" shuttle, it's back again transporting spectators to and from a "WARP(?)" concert. Woodside Station (Roosevelt Ave) directly to Randalls Island. The fare is local each way for this event.
If you haven't witnessed complete and total TA chaos, ride the Randalls Island shuttle. It will run all day into the early morning hours with several extra unscheduled "WILDCAT" buses on stand-by (a first for this depot.. and probably a violation of my contract).
I may be there.. I haven't decided if I want the overtime yet.
126th Street Depot also has a piece of this action. Our shuttles will run from 125th Street and Lexington Avenue to Randall's Island. I put in to work the shuttle and should get it.
I'll probably put-in for it also. Email me with your run if you'd like.
Okay, will do.
Scratch that, I won't be there. Something came up, so I didn't put in for the OT.
But let us know how it went.
Okay, I'm working run # 7 which reports at 10:30 and clears at 6:19 pm. I'll let you know how it went.
That would be the 'Warped' tour, a kind of new 'Lollapalloza' for bands no one has heard of yet.
-Hank
i remember seeing that there was gonna be a Bad Religion concert on Randalls Island on the 10th this month so that has to be the occation.i wish i could go,i love the Bad Religion but...im short on money ~.~
Hello everyone. Just last week me an a few other drivers were talking about the possiblity of the MTA taking over Suffolk Transit in 2005. Me personally I kinda like the way MTA Suffolk Bus. Going your way sounds.
I think it would be good if they did come out here. There would be a whole list of changes in order to make the transition as smooth as possible. I was also told that just two years ago the MTA wanted to come out to Suffolk. But the guy who runs Suffolk Bus doesn't want to sell the company to MTA. Maybe one reason is that he may lose his job or be demoted as a cause of this.
If they do come here first thing I would do is retire all the 1987 Gillig Phantom buses. Nothing but headaches if anything I think many are possessed! The 1993 Flxibles are great but they have their share of problems. They would be retired also or put into storage. I think all of you know that since Flxible went out of business, there has been a shortage of aftermarket Flxible parts. Our buses are just running on borrowed time.
Repaint the rest of all the 1991/96/97 Gilligs to match the new Orions paint scheme. Replace the ever malfunctioning GFI fareboxes with the Cubic Corp. farebox. That would put an end to Suffolks "plan B" by taking money from customers and putting it in a pouch. I think that's not safe at all, even for out here!
Our mechanics would be retrained on the MIDAS system that they use at MTA to keep track of all repairs made and to prevent constant breakdowns.
Only thing the operators did say that if MTA was to come out is that when it's time to make detours, you can't do them on your own. The dispatcher has to do that. But anyone is welcome to post on this message. I'd like to here what other members got to say on this.
You guy's might know more about this than I do.
You're actually talking about the possibility of a new entity deemed a "Regional Bus Company". Regional Bus has been an issue for quite some time now, and has recently evolved into legislation and collective bargaining agreements. The RBC would encapsulate all regional bus authorities under one single unbrella, and operate independent from NYCT which would strictly operate the NYC subway. The legislation, however, is dated 2007, not 2005.
Regional Bus is probably a topic best left off this board and discussed in other transit employee forums, because it's highly political and the agenda is a conflict of interest between employees and the general riding public. Although the very best "Bus Fan" has a greater-than-most knowledge of the inner goings-on with respect to bus and transit related issues as compared to the average commuter, they still, for the most-part, couldn't understand the intimate details that will affect each employee under a new RBC.
This doesn't remove the fact that a RBC would better serve the public, yet at the same time, is detremental to the employee.
For more on regional bus, details can be found at http://www.qvdepot.com.
If you would like a list of employee email/message board discussion lists, please email me at the above address.
By-the-way, out of curiousity... what union and local are you?
I glanced at the web page and it looks like a wealth of information.
Thanks for posting the address.
Michael
Washington, DC
Sorry about that. I just thought that would have been interesting to post. But I'll look into that web site that you posted. Thanks a bunch. Oh my Union is Transport workers Union and the local is 230. I'm looking for my new union contract booklet as I type this to you but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I believe the local number is correct though.
Dave
If I might make a suggestion, start attending your local union general membership meetings. It is there, where you will find the information you're looking for, by those who (are supoosed to) know what's going on.
Thanks! I think I might just start doing that.
The guy who runs Suffolk Bus ?????? I presume that you mean the County Executive, currently Robert Gaffney. As mentioned previously on the board the county contracts with various bus companies to run the routes. While I'm sure that there is a commissioner or someone in charge of ST who makes the day-to-day decisions that person serves at the behest of the CE, who also has to work with an 18 person County Legislature. The legislature has been called "The Wild Wild West" not after the topless joint in Brooklyn but because of the bickering and constant jumping of party lines on issues. You'd have to show that the MTA can run things better before I as a county resident and voter would go for it.
Also critical to your proposal what happens to the HART system in the Town of Huntington? Would the MTA want that and how would they improve service here?
Your idea bears some looking into and further discussion but you can't click your heels together like Dorothy and be back in Kansas, Toto. For it to come to fruition, it will be a long, long road to travel as with most political things.
Hello there, when this was brought up no one mentioned HART Bus. I thought about that on my own. I guess if that was a possiblity they too would be included in the take over. I'm not familiar with the HART buses, just seen 'em around. So I really can't tell you anything about service improvements. I think though in the same token that if they were to come here, they would have what it takes to get the job done.
HART is a bus service operated by the Town of Huntington mostly within the boundaries of the Township. It operates a small fleet, perhaps 20 pieces of equipment. There are two main routes, one from Cold Spring Harbor to Commack, and from Northport to Walt Whitman Mall. These are hourly leaving on the hour and arriving at the other terminal at :50 aftert the hour.
There are also two loop routes both starting and ending at Walt Whitman Mall. One is clockwise through parts of Huntington and Huntington Station, the other is counter clockwise. Same schedule as above.
There are two "commuter routes" that operate AM & PM that bring/take people to/from the LIRR train station in time to meet the trains.
There are also several airporter type vehicles for Handicapped Service.
I could see the MTA taking over the first two routes, perhaps change or revise the "loop routess" but would they continue the commuter and handicapped service??????
The MTA is in the process of taking-over Access-A-Ride operations, as well as other handicapped transit operations citywide. As a matter-of-fact, former Queens Division General Manager Howard Ende now runs the paratransit division of the NYCTA...
So stay tuned!
Thanks for the tip! I work at Suffolk Bus in the SCAT ADA Para-transit program. For some strange reason or other I had a definate feeling that was gonna happen.
Yeah the MTA would continue those two services. The handicap service would be combined with the current program ran between CBS Lines and Suffolk Bus Corp. through the SCAT program. The express service could be use on the LIE Rte 83 to Huntington corridor. In addition to buses going to the park 'n Ride, they too can travel with Suffolk Transit Expresses on the LIE.
Wait, wait, wait! There is an S83, Dave? Are you serious?
I'm sorry about that. What I meant was that Suffolk Transit runs an rush hour express service along the LIE HOV lanes from Exit 63 (Rte83 Farmingville) to Exit 49 Huntington. The bus is routed as S110.
They skipped a few numbers I guess. I couldn't believe that when I seen them on the highway.
Dave
HART doesnt run service that well. They only run 3 local lines and 2 lines for LIRR customers. Here are the models they run:
300's-Orion 1
500's-Gillig
600's-Gillig
i was told by a driver that HART is supposed to get newer buses to replace the 300's. Also, if u miss a bus on saturday, the wait is 2 hours between buses. and there is NO service after 7pm or Sundays.
That sucks! They stand in need of improvements. Hopefully with new buses, that could be a start.
Doubful that new buses mean anything other than replacing older stuff whose odometer has run out of numbers. They started with 3 Fishbowls, replaced by the 3 Orion I's and 11 30-foot Flx New Looks, now replaced by Gilligs and Orions. The service has always been hourly starting IIRC 7 AM and ending with the last departure at 6PM finishing at 6:50 PM. How can anyone get to a mall for shopping at night except to drive? Especially during Xmas.
Initially there was some advertising for the service now nothing. When I rode an Orion I about 15 months ago, they didn't even have enough advertising cards to fill the interior of the bus.
Also the commuter route buses run clock-wise in AM but counter-clockwise in PM. Therefore first on in the AM = last off PM. Unless you live within about 10 minutes of the train station, its faster to drive than take the bus. Most people would be content and think it is fair to have one short ride and one long ride to/from LIRR. But to have two long rides like I had, sucks.
Also if you look at the route maps, there is no service (except for one commuter route) that goes south of Jericho Turnpike. I realize that the WW Mall terminal is technically south of the pike but its too close to matter. There is no service to Dix Hills, Melville, Wheatly Heights and portions of Commack.
Perhaps a rethinking of routes and schedules are in order. An MTA takeover might not be bad from a route point of view.
the H6 serves Commack, i think.
Don't know the route number but that bus starts in Cold Spring Harbor on 25A---goes east to Huntington Village, then S/E to Greenlawn, E on Pulaski Road, North on Larkfield to loop through the Northport LIRR station (which is in E. Northport, a sotry for Bob Anderson and Sub-Talk), then south on Larkfield to Jericho, E on Jericho to just past Commack Road.
As previously mentioned, no service south of Jericho Turnpike, while that part of Commack extends south past the LIE to the Deer Park border.
One thing I must say, the interiors of their '78 Flxibles were beautifully appointed. Cushioned seats, woodgrain trim, and backlit advertising signs. Much nicer than the Flxes at M.S.B.A. I'm sure they were much better maintained also.
That is what I'm hoping for. Hey, since you work for ST. Can you give an updated roster and the depots? I tried doing that before but I'm off a bit. I too live in Suffolk County....Southampton.
www.natransit.com has a roster of suffolk transit buses.
Thanks alot! I work at Suffolk Bus/Suffolk Transportation Service That could help me a lot. I'm curious as to what the other four companies have.
Yeah, but some of it is outdated. No offense to the webmaster of that site.
I went to that site also. I thought that they would have all the buses there. But I guess not. I went there yesterday to take a look.
I live in Coram, I could try to the best of my abilities to get as many buses and garages to you as possible. The easiest to get is my operating company: Suffolk Bus Corparation. They have two yards Here they are:
10 Moffit Boulvard, Bayshore
Pond Road, In Ronkonkoma
The bus numbers I could get tomorrow for you but they do have a varied fleet between the two.
Also In Coram is Island Coachways aka CBS Lines. I could try them with their fleet. The most I know of them is that they got the first ten Orion V's 9901-9910 and a few Gillig 9600's and some 97's as well as the Flxible Metro 9310 to 9319. Their yard is off of Mount Sinai Coram Road in Coram.
Oh Suffolk Bus has twenty orions's nos 9920-9940
I've been living out here for about three years now. I'm just learning that Suffolk Transit is operated by five coach and school bus companies. Maybe you have some info that I don't have at the moment. But I'll post whatever I get since your interested. Nice chatting with you. By the way do you know the five companies off hand by any chance?
Dave
Hey Dave - FYI, CBS Lines is the outgrowth of a defunct company called Coram Bus Service. They operated OTR coaches and in one scene in Author Author! with Al Pacino and Dyan Cannon they're standing at the Times Square newsstand reading a review that just came out as one of Coram's MC-9's pulls across the background.
Don't remember if Island Coachways took over the OTR part of Coram, but for a while they had the same white / red stripe livery and lettering as Harran Coachways. Not sure if there is a connection between HC and IC
I'm not sure either. But there happens to be a red and white sign facing south on Mt. Sinai Coram Road with Island Coachway/CBS Lines on it. They are looking for Drivers and Mechanics. Wow! Suffolk Transit gets more interesting by the day!
Hampton Jitney takes care of the Southampton and the rest ofthe Hamptons divisions! Also, EBA is in North Amityville on Sunrise Hwy and New Highway.
Southampton Depot (The OMNI - where you catch the Hampton Jitney) has the following bus routes and buses:
S90, S92, S94 (Summer Only), 10A, 10B, 10C, 10D and 10E.
Gillig Corporation
#9601-9608
#9711-9714
Flxible Corporation
#9332
EBA Transportation in North Amityville
S1, S20, S25, S33, S35, 1A, 1B
Gillig Corporation
#920?
#9620-9629?
Flxible Corporation
#93xx-93xx (I know #9343 is there)
How could I forget about Educational Bus Transporation Inc! I went to them by mistake thinking that they were Suffolk Transportation Inc. for my job interview! So, that makes six companies and not five then.
Dave
Inter-County Coach in Babylon does some of Suffolk Transit lines. I was there about 3-4 weeks ago. saw mostly Gilligs and Flexibles. i did see on orion V there.
They do have Orion V's there unless they have two yards like Suffolk Bus. The numbers are 9911 to 9919. Look for Orions on the road with these numbers and the operator should be Inter-County.
Update on the Inter-County Bus: They also have Orions numbered:
9941-9949. While I was at work today I seen 9942 On Lakeland Avenue. That's an Inter-County Bus. My question is this: Did Suffolk purchased only 50 Orions or a little more? In my short time working at Suffolk, I believe that I've seen all of the Orions that Suffolk have. They were split up between three companies. Suffolk Bus and Inter-County Motor Coach getting twenty a-piece and CBS getting the first 10 buses out of the batch.
Dave
I think they go up to #9970. I saw in te paper bus #9966 on the S66. I could be wrong about that.
Thanks. The S-66 runs out of my yard. They use buses #9653-9938-and I think 9939. During the week. On Saturday's they use just 9653 and 9938.
Is the S-66 a split route with another opertor besides Suffolk Bus?
I'm not sure about that. However, I think the S66 is a decent route though. Is it true that the S58, S74 were extended to Riverhead for better service? The S74 use to be a Summer route and the S58 use to end in Ridge (Middle County Rd).
Well In my three years living out here, It has been like that. I really can't tell you anything beyond that. On thing is for sure that Smithaven Mall to Riverhead seemed like a ride to me.
According to the S-T website the S-58 runs from East Northport-Sears Mall (Jericho Tpke/Larkfield Road) to County Center in Riverhead. Scheduled running time is either 1:40, 1:45 or 1:50 depending on time of day. Hopefully there is a "bathroom break" somewhere for the driver to stretch his legs.
Tell me about it. I got that wrong I said Smithaven Mall. I should've known better that it was East Northport.
Heres a first for this company: Sometime next year Suffolk will begin Sunday service. I believe more drivers are in order and much good news for riders to hear.
Actually, the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority (MSBA) was originally envisioned as a "Regional Bus Company" of sorts, serving the seven suburban counties of the MTA District (Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland, and Orange). The inspiration came from Pace, which serves a Connecticut-sized chunk of suburbia surrounding Chicago.
However, only Nassau County bought into the MSBA concept. The other counties chose to continue operating or overseeing their own transit systems without interaction with or help from anybody else.
If MTA takes over Suffolk Bus, one thing for sure, Metrocard would be introduced as a way of paying the fare.
Bill "Newkirk"
A lot of people customers and workers agree about that. No more "plan B's" and paper transfers!
I agree that the Gilligs should be painted in the new livery. I saw a 1997 Gillig at Smith Haven Mall with the new livery. For a brief moment, I thought it was one of the soft seaters. I love the 1987 Gilligs. They are a joy to ride, but at the same time, they are getting on in their years and some of them smoke like crazy. I like the Flxibles too, but I think their top end is limited by the four speed auto. They seem to have problems with a/c, but that's just my opinion since I don't drive them. But whether the MTA should take over ST is a moot point.
Nice to see someone still uses the Gilligs. MSBA had them up until about 3 years ago, at which time they were already gung-ho on the idea of an all CNG fleet. Next to go will be the last of the diesel Orions (the 600 series). Only 12 years old, and already headed for the scrapyard in Riverhead. What a waste!
The scrap yard in Riverhead next to Tanger? I was there and I did not see any Gilligs. When should they be there?
Oh, no I'm not saying Gilligs. I'm just assuming that's where the diesel Orions will end up, being that the Blitz Fishbowls and other M.S.B.A. equipment found its way there. I really wish they would re-open the yard. I would love to see GMC #5549 one more time!
couldnt Green bus lines take the Orion v to service. it would replace the rts they have. or better yet, send the orions to Triboro-that makes better sense.
Yes, but MTA L.I. Bus is funny. Like the MTA - they do not want their equipment used by anyone else PERIOD. I would have liked very much to purchase #5549 when it was taken out of service. ABSOLUTELY NOT! - was the reply I received. They would rather see it destroyed than in the hands of another company.
Don't LI Bus have all their Gilligs in Storage? Some of them are still good and not that old if I'm mistaken.
They have a few in the "reserve fleet" but everybody and his brother knows those buses will never see revenue service again. The last time one was used IIRC was for 09/11, and that was bus #544.
i was on one of the 30-foot Flixibles on the S29 recently. if the a/c works, the trip is a very cold ride-and fast too. i was going to take orion v #9914-but it wasnt cold. the gilligs i love-shame li bus doesnt run them much anymore.
M1-#6038-Orion V
Yeah I rode Flxible #9323 with a mechanic back when I first started with Suffolk. They are the best! A/C and all. Too bad they are having a parts shortage with them :(
Dave
I don't know but the '87 gilligs at my bus yard are possessed! You here some of the crazy things the drivers complain to dispatch about them. The worst one is 8703 out of 1980 Pond Road.
I personally Don't like the Low-Floor Buses, because it doesn't have as many seats as a RTS, those damn front wheels are blocking the seats, and sometimes with a crushed load, there's not much standing capacity, I like the New-Flyer Low-Floor CNG's because I'm use to them, they run pass my house every single day. I think the TA needs to bring back some of the RTS buses, or order more Orion High-Floor Buses.
Amen. Besides, the RTS is a staple of NYC; I look at them in the MTA colors and know that it is unmistakably a New York bus. My gripe about low floors is that they ride harshly with those low-profile tires, the seating capacity is greatly reduced (defeating the purpose of MASS transit), and most of the designs out there are just plain ugly.
The LF will be a great idea once these flaws are improved. Until then, long live the high floor.
best thing about the low floor is the fact that i have no one sitting near me. so many people need to bathe and the low floor keeps these smelly people away from me. also i don`t have to listen to the select chatter boxes that get on and sit in the front seat and never shut up.
LOL, I also don't like the fact that Wheel Chair ramp is at the front of the bus and not on the back, because when Senior Citizens are sitting in front on a crowded bus, and a wheel chair boards then the senior citizens have to get up out of their seats, that really gets them pissed.
Then the people sitting in the seats just behind the wheelchair seats should give their seats up to the senior citizens who just got displaced. At least I would hope they do.
Rear door lifts on the MTA buses is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen.
Rear door lifts on the MTA buses is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen.
Why do you say that? Sure, it's a little annoying and a little more time-consuming for the driver to have to leave his seat to operate the lift, but RTSs (and MTA Orions) don't have rear-door lifts arbitrarily; the thinking is that the lifts will be spared in the event of (common) front-end damage.
Also the Wheel Chairs take up space in the front of Low-Floor Buses. What type of Engine does the C40LF have?
S50G.
How much horsepower does a NYCT Bus have?
It all depends on which engine it is; the RTSes, for example, have several different ones, the 6V71, the 6V92TA, and the Series 50, to name a few. I believe the 6V71 is rated at around 181 HP, IIRC. As for the others, I seem to recall 230 for the 6V92. Can anyone back me up here?
-F.
I recall The Bus in Honolulu rated their 6V92TA RTS at 275hp. Also, a Series 50 engine is typically rated at 275hp too while Cummins ISM at 280 for 40 footers.
GP
I would of thought that the buses would of had higher Horsepower than that.
It does sound low, but when compared to a gasoline engine... diesels of the same displacement always have significantly less horsepower. The difference is that diesels have a lot more torque. Diesels are popular in big vehicles because they develop lots of low end torque.
Wayne
Yes, and in both cases, cubes do not always equal horses. Look at the Cadillac 500 CID engine found in Fleetwood hearses in 1970; they were only rated at around 160 HP.
-F.
The mcis have a Series 60 engine rated at 400hp .
New Pages are now open in the West, Ferry and Distance & Charter Galleries!
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
And I was the first to view the pages!
-AcelaExpress2005
www.geocities.com/acelaexpress6250
And I took the pictures! hehe ;)
Yesterday, I saw a New Flyer lowfloor in the layover lot at the Plymouth Meeting mall. I have no idea what the number was since the layover lot is no where near the bus stop. The only routes that use the layover lot are the L and 27, and since the 27 uses the Allegheny depot, and therefore is completely an artic route, it must have been for the L. When I was taking the L to chesnut Hill later, I got a NABI instead of the New Flyer I was hoping for.
Speaking of the L and NABIs, I think the Neoplan AN440s are being phased out, since I didn't see one on the L at all yesterday, which surprised me when I rode the 5:44 bus from the mall, since it was always a Neoplan last year. Neoplans would be pretty good for the L, though, since Stenton Avenue at the detour part is very narrow (proof of this is when 5251's right mirror hit a pole trying to squeeze through a space because a car was practically on the yellow line-cars should really stay away from the yellow line when a bus tries to drive by.) Anyway, I think the next 40ft bus order should consist of 96inch Neoplans. Also, a few of the Neoplan articulated buses should have been 96inch wide, since they would be good for the 27. On Manyunk Ave (I think that's the street), which is very narrow, two buses always seem to pass each other there, and it's very hard to pass the other bus. Oh well, that's enough out of me.
I don't know what that New Flyer was doing at Plymouth Meeting, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was there for driver training at Midvale. The 5601-5700 series of New Flyers are several months away from being delivered, but Midvale is a very large depot (about 300 buses are assigned there, so I'd guess there's about 500-600 operators who work out of that depot). I would suspect it's going to take several months to start qualifying operators at Midvale to operate the New Flyers. Midvale, BTW, will be getting 85 low floors when they start arriving next year, with Frontier to get the remaining 15.
The Frontier buses will mainly be used on the 124/125, since most - if not all - of the routes out of Frontier have some operational issues that would prevent low floor usage. A couple of examples:
The turn off of Swede St into the Norristown terminal has a bit of a dip that could prove to be a problem for the New Flyers, which pretty much rules them out on the 96, 97, 98, and 131 (OTOH, Red Arrow can use the low floors on the 117/119, despite a similar road design turning out of both Elwyn Rail Station and the Crozer-Chester Medical Center in Upland - they've even slipped a few NABIs on the 119 with more frequency - I rode 5320 last Tuesday)
The low floors can't be used on the 93, because of a steep dip near Montgomery County Correctional Facility
There are two locations along the 99 route where dips could cause a problem; one is in the Oaks section of Upper Providence Twp (MontCo) and the other is in the area of Limerick Square Shopping Center (the Royersford terminus before the 99 was extended to Pottstown via US 422) in Limerick Twp; it is possible, however, that the low floors could be used on the mid-day weekday and Saturday short-turns between Norristown and King of Prussia
There are some pretty narrow roads along the 94 route between Ambler and the Montgomery County Community College main campus in Blue Bell/Whitpain Twp
There's a pretty tight turn exiting the Fort Washington Rail Station on the 201 rail feeder route
Don't even think about seeing these buses on a lot of the smaller routes - ie. 92, 95, 133, or any of the Bucks County routes save for 127 and possibly the 129 (but only on a few peak trips)
The only other route at Frontier where the New Flyers could concievably be used might be the 206 between Paoli and Great Valley, but there's a bit of a steep grade pulling out of the lot and crossing Valley Rd which could cause some problems
As for the use of Neoplans on the Midvale routes, they've pretty much been relegated to routes like the 23, 26 (which recently was sent from Frankford), 56, 61, and H/XH. Those routes generally see Neoplans on a consistent basis. However, in past weeks, I've seen a couple NABIs show up on the H/XH and the 56. The use of NABIs on the L isn't that surpising anymore, since they've been showing up with more frequency since the artics arrived a couple of years ago, freeing up a lot of the junkers slated for retirement (the 8600s).
With the New Flyers arriving at Callowhill, there are but only a handful of Neos remaining, mostly seeing service on the 15 and 46 (and on the shuttle portion of the 36 trolley between Woodland Shops and Penrose Plaza - operators from Elmwood are only qualified on the Neos), however a New Flyer or even a NABI have popped up on the 15 and 46 occasionally, but not often enough to be considered a regular occurance. A lot of the old Callowhill Neo strongholds - the G, 31, and 40 come to mind - are now seeing NABIs and New Flyers.
The same thing is happening at Southern, particularly on the 12 and the 68 (which no longer has to travel through the former Penrose housing projects, which was closed a few years ago).
At Frankford, the Neos still hold down the bulk of service on the 3 and 5 routes, but the 25 is starting to see more NABIs on a regular basis. NABIs are even starting to show up on some of the trackless shuttles being run on the 59 and 75, which had almost always seen a Neoplan (NABIs were always a fairly common sight on the 66 when that line ran diesel shuttles).
AFA the 27 goes, I don't see the logic in running artics during most off-peak hours, however SEPTA - in their ever infinite wisdom - decided to make Allegheny all-artic, which was a really foolish move on their part, IMHO. Hence, barely half-full buses on the 9 and 27 during off-peak and weekend hours (though some Plymouth Meeting trips during shift changes do fill up quickly).
Don't expect SEPTA to get any 96" wide buses unless the City of Philadelphia puts enough pressure on them to do so. I don't know of any 40-ft low floor model that isn't 102" wide, and SEPTA is seemingly attached to the low floor concept.
I agree with you on the 27. Out of the 4 buses that serve Plymouth Meeting, the L is the busiest, and that is generally a 40ft bus route. Also, about the 97, I'm certain that they will not use any 102 inch wide buses at all, even for those "once in a while" trips, because all the 97 Penn Square buses also go on the 95, which has some very narrow points. I'm guess that once the Neos are gone, SEPTA will boost up peak hour service on the 97 from hourly to every half hour. Maybe that will eliminate some cutaway trips. Speaking of cutaways, when are the new ones coming? Will they be equipped with bike racks like Ride-On's?
Since the flyer came out the route where certain buses such as the eldorado are showing up on the 52.the new flyer @ plymouth could be from a near by frankford on a break lay over.or it could be that midvale is tasting them.
why did Allegheny made their Depot all artic they should spilt the route 52 and 21 to Allegheny and callowhill.
i don't like the flyer that much @ Septa due to bad mantences every time i see a flyer it ethier Sound differend or pick up slower or make a engine sounds.
Last saturday i went to center city i saw a southern new flyer break down after a few months in service.It took a NABI two year to breack down!
And the every i have to change buses due to the A/C not working on a new flyer.
so SEPTA should get Neoplan as their Default bus purchase.
I can't belive that i was waiting 2-3 years for a banch of Lemons.
i remember the first time i seen one i was so happy they was fast and every thing.But look @ them now alwhile.
Don't get me wrong i still like the new flyer it just the maintences.
////post your comments
After all of the operating issues you cited, what the hell SEPTA will do in '06 when most of the 40 ft buses will be low floor? Assign NABI's to these routes, or do what they did to a couple of routes in the 80's when they replaced the New Looks with Neoplans and RTS's, by rerouting the buses?
Okay guys, you know the drill. I'm posting what I saw and that's that. Lots of goodies in here too, so lets get to it! BTW, I was looking at a pic of the Hoboken Bus Terminal and the wall that has the "NJTransit" logo on it, well I was at the Jamaica Bus Terminal and well you could pretty much draw that logo on a wall there as well. It's kind of similiar in my point of view! Okay, the buses:
#8376 - Q30 (on the Grand Central Pkwy getting off at Little Neck Pkwy. NOT REPOWERED!)
#4336 - on the Grand Central Pkwy (Must be the Q46 LTD to Springfield Blvd....deadhead)
#9562 - Q17
#4347 - Q17 (PACKED)
**********************************************************************
NEW TRAFFIC LIGHT ABOUT TO BE PUT UP ON HOMELAWN ST AND HIGHLAND AV (Q30, Q31). I USE TO LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD OF JAMAICA ESTATES SO, IT'S ABOUT TIME!
**********************************************************************
#4914 - Q1
#303 - Q76
#4585 - Q3
#654 - Q76
#106 OR #108 - Q2 (Do not know if it OR they are repowered)
#4921 - Q36
#9568 - Q3
#8363 - Q1
#8383 - Q1
#9293 - Q75
#9353 - Q36
#9355 - Q43
#5160 - Q17
#8943 - Q77
#9269 - NIS
#9285 - Q17
#4345 - Q77
#4576 - Q17
#8394 - Q1
#8395 - Q1
#8396 - Q43?
#8352 - Q43
#507 - Q1
#505 - Q43
#510 - Q88 (with CS logo on the right side of the bus. Do not know about the other side.)
#518 - Q46
#579 - Q27
#671 - Q27
#4912 - Q46
#9375 - Q1
#9378 - Q46
#8378 - Q2
#7018 - Q43
#616 - Q2
#624 - Q75
#519 - Q88
MTA LI BUS
#602 - N6
#619 - ?
#632 - ?
#649 - ?
**********************************************************************
ALL 600 SERIES HAVE AN AD WRAPPED ON THE BACK ONLY! "QTRAINDASH7" BACK ME UP ON THIS!
**********************************************************************
#180 - N6 (Nice Cummins engine)
#191 - ?
#215 - N6
#284 - N24 (Nice Cummins engine but with a high pitch sound)
#314 - N6
#359 - N22
#373 - N24
GREEN BUS LINES
#612 - NIS
#5549 - Q41
I saw a QSC bus on Hillside Av turning onto Parsons Blvd. Looks like the Q65 is back....slowly!
SUFFOLK TRANSIT
#9661 - NIS (on the shoulder of exit 64 on the LIE)
#9607 - S92
#9701 - 8A
#9605 - S92
**********************************************************************
An update on the Suffolk Transit fleet. Buses #9660-9668 are now in Western and Central Suffolk. Southampton now has buses #9601-9608, #9711-9714 and #9332 (Flxible Metro-D with a DDEC 6v92TA engine). Did not see the scrap yard in Riverhead. I was on CR 58. You can only see that from NYS 25 as you cross a bridge over the Greenport Branch of the LIRR.
**********************************************************************
Well, that's everything! Let me know if you have any questions!
I do believe the 600s at LI Bus all have the rear wrap, at least all the remaining ones do.
Remaining ones? What's been scrapped?
I did not saw a QM1A Bus today. I got a E-Mail from Queens Surface that it would be tommorw but I woundering if there's going to be Normal Weekend Service on the QM1A since I might need to take it this weekend. Is it going to be normal service this weekend?
Saw an old favorite last night; TNN was showing Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. As a busnut and a fan of the original series, I had the delight of seeing Kirk and Spock in 1980s San Fransisco. Of course, the obligatory streetcar passes, along with an AM General MUNI trolley bus and MUNI Fishbowl no. 3513. Later on, Kirk and Spock ride another Bowl to an aquarium.
Funny scenes include both of them jumping onto a Fishbowl, only to get off shortly after. Mr. Spock says: "What does it mean, 'Exact Change'?".
While riding another Bowl, a punk rocker with a mohawk drowns everyone with heavy metal to no end. Spock gives him the Vulcan neck pinch and knocks him right out onto his boom box. Everyone on the bus cheers!
Truly, this is one of my favorite movies of all time.
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
[While riding another Bowl, a punk rocker with a mohawk drowns everyone with heavy metal to no end. Spock gives him the Vulcan neck pinch and knocks him right out onto his boom box. Everyone on the bus cheers!]
That's one of my favorite scenes, too. BTW...
1. Kirk and Spock are headed toward an institute in Sausalito, which is just a few miles north of San Francisco. Ordinarily, that trip would entail riding Golden Gate Transit #10, #20, or #50 (or the Sausalito Ferry) from S.F., yet they board a Muni bus. Then, the bus pulls up to the Monterey Aquarium, about 120 miles SOUTH of S.F.! Talk about artistic license.
2. The song on the punk's radio is "I Hate You" by Kirk Thatcher - who happens to play the punk.
Even more "artistic license" is that Muni bus used in the movie...it was not even a Muni bus!!!! It was a privately owned bus painted for Muni (and a very good paint job at that!!).
You'll notice it is the same bus in the scene on Columbus Avenue as it is at the "Institute" (correctly identified by Gotham Bus. Co. as the Monterey Bay Aquarium).
Yeah...the resemblance is uncanny, much like the "Speed" Fishbowl...very prototypical!
-F.
What is meant by "exact change?"
LOL..Warp 5307, Mr. Sulu! :)
-F.
LOL...that's too funny! He did the song too? And I thought it was neat that Kirk and Spock rode a Fishbowl!
-F.
Reminds of the punk in "Spy Hard" who asks Ray Charles "There's a guy on the bus with a transfer, he won't pay the fare. What do you do? What do you do?" lol.
LOL...was there an actual bus in "Spy Hard"?
-F.
Yes, they used one of the stunt buses from "Speed", and they had Ray Charles as the bus driver. Leslie Nielsen slows down the speeding bus by dragging his feet on the ground (way far fetched). Note also - they changed the speedometer in this bus for the film. I think GMartic told me this particular bus appeared in one more film, where it was destroyed.
Wow...Ray Charles driving the "Speed" Fishbowl? LOL...that's HILARIOUS!!! I've gotta see this. And that's a shame the bus was destroyed in a later film....which one, I wonder?
-F.
Yeah well, to Hollywood it's just scrap. They don't look on it as you and I. Like I say, they wrecked God knows how many '58 Plymouths in the filming of "Christine." Perhaps GMartic could refresh my memory as to what film it was.
EEP...they killed '58 PLYMOUTHS too?!? The bastards! Cruel, heartless motherf....I'd better stop. That's just a shame. As much computer animation as they do in Star Wars prequels, you'd think they could digitally stage a bus explosion and leave the real stuff alone.
-F.
I dont remember the name of the movie that the bus was destroyed in. I will look thru my past files. The bus was marked as "MRT" Bus Lines and was involved in a travelling shootout complete with a helicopter taking people off the bus while it was driving thru the hills. As soon as I locate the name of the film, I will let you guys know. The "MRT" was abreviated for "Mark Richards Technology", one of my brothers businesses.
Wow...what a neat way you came up with a fictional TA name. Do let me know what movie it was from. Say, do you work with buses and/or the movies? I seem to recall that someone here worked on the set of "Speed" but do not recall which person that was. You, perhaps?
-F.
Is this true because someone did post here about a month ago saying that there saw a S88 LIMITED sign in the reading that said S88:Tottenville.
My mistake it was an S84 sign that I saw on Richmond Rd and Clove RD.
****NOTE****if the links below don't work, right click and select COPY SHORCUT, then put it in address window
5237 (NABI artic) also has the METRO OPENS DOORS labeled on the back
also saw 5208, one of the few NABI artics still with the old paint scheme
i saw, for the first time in months, an MAN artic on the Z2 on Columbia Pike (5108)
also, i noticed that a suburban seating orion V was used on another Z2 (4402). The Z2 isn't exactly a route that deserves those buses.
4402
also saw the ex-MTA buses being run by Ride-On. it was on the 70 to Germantown-Milestone
93-5703
also spotted a Gillig Phantom run by the University of Maryland(7001). LET'S GO TERPS!
7001
The big boss called a meeting this morning to address the problem of drivers not refueling at the end of the day. When I first started, it was quite common to get a bus with the needle on the half or one quarter mark, so a trip to the pump was in order before I started my morning runs. As of today, any driver that does not fill up at the end of the day will be written up. A second offense will result in loss of pay for the day and a third means termination. Furthermore, any driver that leaves his bus filthy will also get written up. However, I sweep out my bus every day and I refuel them every day, so I have no problem with the new rules.
Isn't refueling and cleaning the job of the depot people?
Nope, we have a small yard, so the drivers, including me refuel and sweep them out. The mechanics just fix them and put them outside when they're done. Basically, I'm the only one that does any kind of sweeping, the other drivers really don't care. I can't stand a dirty floor.
Who do you work for?
Brookhaven Town Jitney in Suffolk County. I transport seniors to day care programs.
It might be better if you posted who you work for. If you already did, sorry I missed it, but I think some people believe you work for NYCT.
BIG AL
Don't I wish. I work for the Brookhaven Town Jitney. Kinda sorta like para-transit service.
I'm sure you know that NYCT operators (and probably a great majority of larger bus agency operators) have separate "drill tricks" (a piece of work that doesn't include operating a bus in passenger service) for each task performed outside the operation of a bus.
The maintenance department includes a few tricks specifically designated as cleaners. Most of these positions are reserved for operators or other employees who are on restricted duty (for a multitude of various reasons). A few may be picked work. Those employees are responsible for sweeping the bus.
The transportation department also has a cleaning trick, and this trick is reserved as restricted duty work.
The maintenence department is also responsible for fueling the entire fleet daily (nightly, upon final pull-in actually). In seniority order, a maintenence employee may pick a fuel station trick. This may involve fueling the bus, checking the engine fluid levels and physical inspection of the undercarriage. Operators are not permitted to perform these functions.
The transportation deparement is responsible for removing the daily fare collected, driving the bus into and through the fuel station, through the bus wash, and finally parking the bus for pull-out the next day (or, for pull-out later on during the day, depending on the time that bus was "drilled").
This Drill work may be picked as 8-hour work, or picked daily as 4-hour overtime pieces.
As an aside, I'm a stickler for a clean bus. In addition to having my bus swept, I take it upon myself to fully clean the windows, inside and out, clean the entire drivers area, and carry air-freshener to use when appropriate.
You may want to take the TA or OA test... and leave the cleaning behind :-)
Believe me, I'm not really interested in staying at the Jitney for the rest of my life. I really would like to try out for Red and Tan since I used to ride their buses to Rockland County. Anyway, we don't do everything u described. If a bus gets sent out for maintenance, the shop is under no obligation to fuel it, sweep it, or even wash it. They park them in a designated area just for repaired buses and someone from the yard takes it back.
FYI, the bus I had this morning had only half a tank, but I wasn't surprised. I know the driver that usually gets 544 and she doesn't fill up every day. Sometimes its best to let sleeping dogs lie.
No offense, but you sound like you work for a very boring company, if I was you, you should definetly quit whenever the opportunity is best, you don't know what you are missing. I bet driving senior citizens and on those small buses, could get very boring after a while. Wouldn't you just love to drive something like an MCI? LOL
Jason
Actually, I applied at CBS Lines in Coram a few months ago, but they said I don't have experience driving 35 footers. I wanted to tell him that my training bus was a 40 foot RTS from Westchester County! A 35 footer is not a big deal. Maybe one day I'll get the chance to work for a large carrier like NJT or Academy. No offense taken about how boring the place is, actually, it gets real crazy on Wednesdays and Fridays. Those are heavy passenger load days and the seniors do act like children sometimes. For now, the chance of driving for ST is just a pipe dream.
The Bx25 saves about 10 minutes to Co Op City, shouldn't it at least run more often, and have better headways. 20 minutes for the Bx25, that is worse than most Sunday (or even early late night 12-1 am) bus headways
dosent that bus only run like twice an hour
Aside from the rush hours there is not a great need for a shorter version of the Bx26. I am sure riders in the sections of Co-Op not served by the Bx25 would not appreciate it.
I don't even use it and it stops right in front of my building. I prefer the shorter trip to Pelham Bay to get the subway.
Post your opinions.
I was "snooping" around Gateway Ctr and driving up Fountain Ave, I noticed the B13 bus stop sign: B13:Williamsburg.
However an half a hour earlier, I was on Ralph Ave(btwn KP and Flatlands) and the bus stop signs still have the B78: Kings Plaza and B78: East Flatbush.
Looks like the changes are underway.
Well I guess this means goodbye to the B18. I'm going to make sure I ride it one last time before its gone.
-Jay
I will be posting this material shortly ,,with many many new changes
and deletions, my new address ,now,is listed ,above.
If you need the changes ,,asap ,call me
Steve
914 668 9218
Hi
I am back ,after a vacation,
I am going to start giving route changes,,New items and agenda news
again
If you need to contact me ,,call Steve 914 668 9218
Steve,
Glad to have you back. Check your e-mail. I e-mailed you! I'm asking for the Destination signs!
Welcome back. I look forward to what you have for us.
If you want up to date info,,each month,,after the 25th of the month,,except August,,contact me,,914 329 7489 before 6 PM
-- or after 8 PM using 914 668 9218
Steve
Can I get some info on this bus route? Who uses it? Why the weird hours? Why no subway connections? All help would be greatly appreciated.
Q9A#611
The Q9A is somewhat of a spin off of the Q9. It runs down Merrick Blvd to Linden Blvd, then Linden to VWE to Lincoln St. It's like a LTD in a way.
On the Articulated Buses, where is the Wheel Chair Lift Located?
on the Septa neoplan an440 it's locate in the front so as the new york new flyers.
on the Septa neoplan an440 it's locate in the front so as the new york new flyers.
At the front, where it should be on all buses.
The RTS-08 is the only RTS with the lift in the right place!
In the front
I had a map entitled "Express bus map" which portrayed all express routes in New York City, ie the NYCTA, DOT, etc. It was labelled 1993, but I moved and it got lost. Does anybody know about this map, and if it is still putblished, and whether it is or isn't if I can ever get one?
Call Surface Transit at 212-487-8300. They should still have a few and they will give them to you. The latest ones are dated January 1995. Ask for a copule in case you misplace one ;)
Thanks!
Can you or anyone else tell me why they were terminated?
What is the date of the latest LI Bus Map?
Michael
Washington, DC
I have a map dated "08 94" in tiny print on the rear cover. There are only schedules, no system maps, in the racks at Hempstead bus terminal, and the information desk has been replaced by Metrocard vending machines. The wall phones to information don't work! The next try would have to be by phoning 516-766-6722 (travel info center) or writing to LIB Customer Service at 700 Commercial Avenue, Garden City, NY 11530.
incorrect phone number,they changed it,i think its 228-4000 or something like that,same area code.
Yes, the June 23, 2002, timetable for N51 gives the LI Bus info number as 516-228-4000, Monday-Saturday, 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. If bus system maps are unavailable, I suspect the excuse may be that each timetable includes a route map with transfers indicated. Of course, a system map is much more helpful. I wonder how many calls for schedules or directions they get daily and whether the 5 p.m. shut-down cuts off many post-five-p.m. inquiries.
I was watching "The Rookies" today on TVLand and in the episode, they had one of the dirt bag criminals trying to make his getaway on a Flxible, which I believe was anywhere from 1970-1972. Anyway, this bus had a door in the middle of the bus on the left side, which the dirt bag used to make his escape. Anyway, the bus operator was asking the police officers to help him close the "emergency" door because it was jammed. Anyway, what I would like to know is, I have never seen a Flxible with a left side rear door. Is this a common bus or a one of a kind oddity? Also, if you watch the opening credits, they show an old look bus sitting by the gates of the police academy. Don't know if it is a GMC or a Mack. Some of you bus buffs would probably know better.
BIG AL
Some of the early models of GM and Flxible new-looks had the emergency doors on the left side. They were on a few of the early 60's fishbowls here in Philly. The emergency doors disappeared in the late 60's/early 70's.
That's correct; our museum has a 1966 model 5303 Fishbowl with the left side emergency door, a la the Old Look and school buses. Very neat feature, but it didn't lend much to the continuous design flow of the slanted windows.
-F.
I think Green Bus Lines use to have Flxible new looks with the left side emergency door. NYCTA Flxibles didn't have the emergency exit door. Does anyone remember when Eagle 05 coaches have the one of the back windows as an emergency exit?
Wayne
Green Line Flx New Looks with emergency doors were numbered 210-219, I think. 220-229 didn't have those doors. Their GMC's had those doors as well.
Fifth Ave. Coach also had emergency doors on their Bowls. There were also emergency doors on NYCTA's Old Looks.
I think those emergency doors on the left side were mandatory until 1965 or so....when the vehicle safety authorities finally realized that the swing-out windows could be used for emergency exits.
Right...but we have a 5303 with that door which was built in September 1966. Perhaps they were just clearing out what was left over in the parts bin?
General Motors was famous for that, which is why you could still get the 500 CID V8 across the board in 1975-76, and not just on the Eldorados. Shoot, they even made a diesel version for the 30-foot Fishbowls in the early 70s. They really must have wanted to clear them out!
-F.
In Boston, the 7000-7039 series Flxibles from 1970 had the left-side emergency door. The 1972 buses did not.
Jim D.
Wow...too cool! I've never seen "The Rookies" before...I need to find an episode guide and see when a martathon is coming on.
-F.
Whoops...I meant marathon. "MARTAthon" is a typo...or is it a busfest in Atlanta? LOL!!!
-F.
Next year, why don't they take about 25 of the Flyer buses being sent to Midvale, and send them to Allegheney for the 9 and the 27. Those routes literally run empty artics during off peak and weekends. Those 25 Flyers would be exchanged for 25 Neo Artics, and they can be used to make lines like the 18, 22, and 55 all artics. Even put a few on the R and the C lines as well. Those lines often run full loads, especially on the weekends. Now that would be a nice suggestion, but knowing SEPTA, those idiots won't even make a logical consideration of the matter.
CAN ANYONE PUT THE SPREE OUT OF ITS MISERY?
I agree with you on the SPREE.....if they really wanted to be serious...they should think of extending subway surface to penn's landing.....or even building a penns landing...30th street light rail line across chestnut and walnut. it could use those dedicated transit lanes.
or an even cheaper idea....make a local and express, or even an extra phlash route......that could circulate just through cc
Next year, why don't they take about 25 of the Flyer buses being sent to Midvale, and send them to Allegheney for the 9 and the 27. Those routes literally run empty artics during off peak and weekends. Those 25 Flyers would be exchanged for 25 Neo Artics, and they can be used to make lines like the 18, 22, and 55 all artics. Even put a few on the R and the C lines as well. Those lines often run full loads, especially on the weekends. Now that would be a nice suggestion, but knowing SEPTA, those idiots won't even make a logical consideration of the matter.
With the exception of a handful of trips geared toward the hours at Plymouth Meeting Mall, the 27 could get away with 40-ft buses. As for why SEPTA won't do it, they're still convinced that it's a smart move to have Allegheny be an all-artic depot for some bizarre reason. For whatever reason, SEPTA seemed to want to experiment with one model of bus at a single depot, and Allegheny was the guinea pig.
Another option that SEPTA could look at is sending weekend runs on the 9 and 27 to Midvale. That probably has no shot of happening, given the fuss that the union would raise over it, but I know the MBTA splits some of its lines among two depots based on weekday/weekend operations.
AFA the R bus, it's still split between Comly and Frankford, so you'll never see an artic on that line.
CAN ANYONE PUT THE SPREE OUT OF ITS MISERY?
If the City of Philadelphia wanted to, then maybe yes. They probably won't since that's going to look really bad for the Center City District. The SPREE is really nothing more than a political compromise over the elimination of the old 76 routing between Center City and the Zoo.
Reportedly (from www.njo.com/transit), Stagecoach Group (owners of CoachUSA) are looking to move CoachUSA's New Jersey and New England divisions. Reportedly, Red and Tan in the New Jersey division and Bonanza in the New England division are the only companies turning a profit and they are cross-subsidizing everyone else.
The Big A, approached by CoachUSA in the beginning to join, is interested in acquiring a few companies in this group.
Does anyone know where I can pull up information on the individual companies' financial performance? The Stagecoach Group site indicates that a substantial CoachUSA decision will take place by December 2002, but only lists the performance of the entire business unit.
Any info that you have would be appreciated. I like to double check the information I hear.
ae, that was my post at NJO regarding the info on R&T and Bonanza. I got that from a senior Bonanza driver who is good friends with management. Apparently Brian Souter is very upset with the performance of Coach USA, and wants to rid the money-draining divisions as quickly as possible.
Academy had been in talks with CU as early as last December for the big A to acquire units, and apparently those talks are heating back up again. Of the NJ division companies, CU might try to hang on to ShortLine for the simple fact that they own the Gray Line franchises in New York and Atlantic City. I'd also expect Leisure Line to simply disappear, now that ShortLine has moved into the LL Mahwah facility.
If Academy recieves any of Coach USA Companies it would be Suburban. But, I am unsure if they would give that up, because they have gone back to court once again about who gets the Route 18 Contract. Originally Academy won the bid, Suburban got upset, and took them to court, neither side got anywhere so it was eventually thrown out of court with Suburban still operating it.
I think Coach USA has learned a lesson that they shouldn't have just bought out all those companies, I think they wanted to get real big, but not the right way.
As far as Academy goes, the two most ideal companies for Academy I would say definetly are Olympia Trails and Suburban. Newark Airport is where they have alot of service, as for central NJ, Academy does have alot of services in that part. If they did get Suburban, it would be the perfect opportunity to put the Rutgers Units over in New Brunswick.
Jason
... as for central NJ, Academy does have alot of services in that part. If they did get Suburban, it would be the perfect opportunity to put the Rutgers Units over in New Brunswick.
Not to mention the 800-series Middlesex routes Academy operates for NJT out of the Perth Amboy garage, several of which hub at New Brunswick...
Perth Amboy Garage is crowded enough as it is, that New Brunswick Garage would come into alot of use for Rutgers. I just couldn't see them moving the Middlesex runs to New Brunswick because of the other contract they have with NJ Transit Metropark/Plainfield. Whenever needed Middlesex drivers do help out with those lines in addition the way they have those buses screwed up, you will always see a Middlesex 1100 at Metropark in the PM.
I don't know about Coach USA, but there could be a slight problem about Academy taking over the companies, they would probably only be able to take the contracts because of the fact those companies have unions and Academy chooses not to have a union.
Jason
Wow...Bonanza is still around? I haven't seen one of their coaches in years!!!
-Fred
Unless you come up here, you won't see them either. CU turned Boonanza into line service only. If you call Bonanza to charter a coach, they refer you to the nearest Coach USA charter firm.
Whoa...really? So the bus company has gone the way of the western by the same name. Let's hope Gunsmoke Lines will survive. :)
-F.
Do you know how big the deficits are and how much is being asked for those companies?
Don't have indivisual company numbers, but on a whole, CU is bleeding money, and has for years. It's important to note how CU bought all these companies to see why they lost their shirts. Not only did they pay the value of the company, they also paid the owners based on future potential, and assumed all debt. For example, X Bus Company is worth $10 million and they're showing a 5% growth rate, but they just replaced half the fleet, and are making large payments for their new buses. CU would not only pay the $10M, but also the cash value of the 5% increase for 5 years AND take over the bus payments and any other outstanding debt. The owner of X walks away with a trunk full of cash, and CU is on the hook for a lot of money they have borrowed from the banks to make these deals. They then went public to get even more money - classic "dot com" financial thinking. They sold out to Stagecoach of Scotland in 1999 for, you guessed it, more money. Then, when the economy started to tank in late-2000, they were left holding the paper on a lot of debt, with no forseeable way to recover. This where they sit today.
Brian Souter(chairman) has recently replaced his Coach USA CEO and according to press reports over here is now in charge himself, taking a hard look and feasability of ALL his Coach USA operation.
He expects this review to completed by December this year and action to follow soon after.
Like a sale or sales.
My opinion would be that if it a certain division is not making money it will disposed of.
I have a movie shoot coming up and am in desperate need of some older buses. The shoot will be in Atlanta and Los Angeles. Transportation cost will be paid by the production company. The shoot starts in october and will shoot for 30 days. If the production is happy with the pictures I supply them they will also pay to repaint. I am on a deadline here and have to get them some info by tomorrow. This is an opportunity to make alot of money so if you guys know any museums or private individuals... especially close to Atlanta, please call me directly or email me. These are the buses I am looking for. I would prefer to stay GM/Yellow Coach but at this point will take anything.
2- 1940's style charter buses, non Greyhound
2- 1950's style charter buses, can be Greyhound
1- early 40's school bus
4- 1950's transit buses
Respectfully,
Scott Richards, President
Regional Transit Service
2805 Cadet St.
Riverside, CA 92504-4602
(909) 684-5926
http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Could they refurbish an Old Look for the film? If so, have I got a '51 GM 35-footer for you!
Please email me directly or call me. I will need to see picture and get more info.
Scott, I have a lead to one or two Old Look 3714s circa 1958 that we may obtain for parts; however, we need just a few small items and not the whole bus. E-mail me at flxible176@yahoo.com for more details. Thanks!
-Fred
I have seen the worst buses running out of Hudson. I saw #4363 and #4337 on the M6. The #4363 still had the Bronx Bus Map behind the driver. Is Hudson getting the leftovers from the Bronx because they are to close when 100st opens?
You mean bus #4327 from Queens Village! Bus #4337 has been scrapped for some time now.
Wonder how much longer bus #3481 will be at that depot. I understand it was a great bus at Gleason back in 1984. Nothin' like the sweet sound of a 6V-92!
Saw the new bus stops today while going to the DMV. The B68 seems to stop on Neptune avenue after making a left from West 5th Street. I though when the B68 gets extended to Coney Island, they would follow the B36 on Surf Avenue. Guess they decided customers needed service on Neptune Avenue. The signs say service doesnt begin till 9/8/02. Guess its a wait and see approach i suppose.
it does begin on 9/8 . the fall pick begins that day and the schedules reflect the extension of the b68 to stillwell terminal.
I've sort of lost track on where we stand on the "which will be the last 1981/82 RTS to be in operation" contest, but thought I'd let those interested know that I saw bus #1852 in service on the X90 during yesterday afternoon's rush hour. It is somewhat strange to see a 20-year old bus in express service when so many newer express buses are doing local service throughout the City.
If I am not mistaken it is the last 1982 standing. From what I hear, 2270 hasn't been scrapped and has been sent to a storage yard. Maybe, they are considering restoring it or even putting it back into some kind of service even though that would be a foolish decision. 2270 definetly should be restored after all the last 1981 to operate was like 3 years ago, it was either 1384 or 1646. For a come back just like that from a 1981, definetly deserves a spot somewhere in the historical fleet.
Jason
Okay, as most of you know I have been talking about that scrap yard in Riverhead for months and months! Well, in that yard has ex-QSC GMC RTS-03 and 04 buses as well as many GMC "New Look" Blitz buses and one Flxible "New Look" bus. Well, why does Suffolk Transit rehab those ex-QSC buses, repaint them and they would be the FIRST 40 FOOT buses in their fleet. They can increase service especially on eastern Long Island routes. Now, I know what you all are thinking...."WHY? People don't need buses because they have cars!" Well, a lot of people like in Riverhead, Hampton Bays and parts of Southampton do not have cars (like myself) so they depend on some sort of transportation. "R-33 #8878" would you agree with this? Let me know what you guys...especially my LI buddies (HART bus and others) about this.
Not a bad idea depending on the current condition of the buses and the cost to get them up and running....Also the availability of spare parts, storage facilities, knowledgeable mechanics familiar with GMC equipment and ability to hire qualified drivers, offset by how much more revenue from the farebox and subsidies must be taken into consideration.
Suggest this to County Executive Gaffney. If this could be implemented fairly soon, he might go for it. After all, IIRC he's up for re-election in 2003.
I don't think MTA would buy old buses just like that, epecially if they are not originally from the TA. If indeed 40 foot buses would get used, and they were going to be old buses, I would only assume they will come from NYCT, if not I would tend to think they would be brand new units. In some cases for a transit system, its not always smart to buy old buses like that, depending on how long you want to keep them running, and parts is also a major factor too.
I agree with you on that. That's not their style. That's why I said that some not all the transit buses out here would be slated for retirement if MTA would come out here. Besides if so, all transit buses would have to come up to today's standards of clean diesel or CNG.
[they would be the FIRST 40 FOOT buses in their fleet]
I don't know Suffolk Transit very well, but wonder whether any of the 35-footers on any of its routes get that crowded that there is a need for 40-foot buses.
Nah. I've seen many Suffolk Buses with the most I've seen were like ten people on board. At times you see three or just one passenger just as I seen on the S27 the other day heading to the airport. Maybe at rush hour they would get a rush of people but no standing loads. They have a few 40 footers to do beach runs and work the "most busiest" routes.
I agree with you on that. Suffolk has some 40 foot Gilligs for use on it's busiest lines and beach runs. It's ashamed that not the county, but the individual operators of the routes wouldn't spend one dime on rebuilding those buses. At my company, Suffolk Bus they don't want to spend the extra money on mechanics! If MTA were here, they would go on that as to cut cost on purchasing new equipment. All in agreement?
Dave
The other day I rode the Boonton Line and saw a few DeCamp buses on nearby streets (around Montclair) and a DeCamp garage. Yet, the NJT Boonton Line timetable does not show DeCamp bus connections on the timetable map, and the DeCamp website does not show where NJT rail stations are! I presume DeCamp gets a subsidy of some sort from NJ DOT. However, this is a silly lack of information on the part of both NJT rail and DeCamp's website. Adding DeCamp route numbers to the new Montclair-Great Notch timetable map would be easy, just adding a few digits to the map.
DeCamp gets buses and equipment (fareboxes, etc.) from NJT, but they receive no operating subsidies. DeCamp and the Boonton line are direct competitors. You will not see NJT cross-promoting a competitor without a prior agreement. Only time in recent memory I can think of this was, before the 165 was extended to Westwood on Sundays, they noted the connection time of the Red & Tan 11A at Kinderkamack Road and Main Street in North Hackensack. They did not cross-yonor each other's tickets, but it was listed as a convenience for people who needed to travel north of Hackensack on Sundays. When NJT extended the 165, the connection info was removed o that NJT could keep those customers for themselves.
yukon has the following rts's which are being prepared for the fall. the numbers are:
3969
3941
3960
3962
Why the hell are they still depending on the 3900's? Give them a rest, and start using those stored Orions. It's the same with FP, and KB. I think this whole "preserving" thing is utter crap. I hate the fact that these buses being "preserved" aren't even going to last long. Is the TA going that low just to hold out until the newer buses come?
BTW, Yukon derserves to be treated better than this.
BLX is informed weekends to this destination and weekdays after 11pm will be bye bye with the 9-8-02 pick. Now BLX sees artcles in the Daily News, Newsday and a local Queens paper whereby a few local political hacks are on the bandwagon to save this service. The facts are, of the 60 customers on this route checked late night the 260 Street total was a big 7 with 53 going to LIJ. So LIJ gets more service late night and better headways on weekends. BLX feels this makes sense. We can't service all of the people everywhere, and NYCT should be under no obligation to do so. This issue is real, BLX doesn't have time to count and record bus numbers. Also, BLX feels that the Q44 will not get artics (as stated by Brooklyn67) because this route travels the Whitestone Bridge. It gets pretty windy out there and sharing the road with tractor trailers is no bargain. Also, this route passes over the exclusive neighborhood of Malba, which many moons ago had it's own shuttle bus, the Q44B. Of course no one was out there to check these bus numbers. The residents of Malba don't like strangers coming around, as many had connections to certain type of individuals and businesses. Get it! Stay out, how many ended up in the water under the Whitestone Bridge with very heavy shoes. Oh, just forget it, you don't even know what the Q44B is.
Who remembers when the Q46 was the Q44a ???
Please..... don't get him started. Haven't we had enough of the retro-70's viagra-induced non-transit related flashbacks? What's next, posting pictures of himself in his favorite leisure suit and platform shoes?
Yes, YOU posted about a transit related issue. Now be prepared for the response. I'll be on-the-side.... break, break...
The same people (like me) who remember the Q12A,Q44VP and Q44FS
the Q12A,Q44VP and Q44FS
For those of us not priveleged enough to remember those routings, what were they?
The old Q12A is now the Q79, and the old Q44VP is now the Q74.
The old Q44FS ran only from College Point to Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue in Flushing. It's number was at first changed to Q20, the route was extended southward into Jamaica, and it provided local service from Whitestone to Jamaica along the same route traveled by the Q44, which was changed to provide only limited stop service most times. When development along 20th Avenue in College Point warranted new bus service there, the Q20 was split into the Q20A and Q20B, with the Q20A providing service along the newly developed 20th Avenue corridor, and the Q20B traveling the original route along 14th Avenue.
There was a ten and a half-year gap between the Q44FS being renumbered to Q20 and its being extended to Jamaica. In December 1988, a whole slew of Queens division TA routes were renumbered to eliminate lettered suffixes. This coincided with the opening of the Archer extension and Jamaica Center terminal.
The 44FS conversion to 20 was one such renumbering. The 20 retained the original Flushing to College Point routing on weekdays only until July 1999 when the whole 20A/B business started. Both 20s run as a local complement to the Q44 from Whitestone to Jamaica during the week; on the weekends, only the 20A does this.
Other December 1988 conversions eliminating lettered suffixes were:
3A= 83
4A= 84
5A/5AB= 85 (The old 5A routing bypassing Rochdale Village via Merrick and Farmers, and all 85 service uses the old 5AB routing serving Rochdale via Baisley and Bedell.)
5S= 86 (Peak-hour Rosedale shuttle cancelled shortly after)
5AS= unsure (Peak-hour Laurelton shuttle cancelled before assignment of new number designation)
12A= 79
17A= 30
44A= 46
44B= 71 (Peak-hour Malba shuttle cancelled before assignment of Q71 designation)
44VP= 74
Several routes out of Brooklyn -B22 from ENY and B53 from FP- were renumbered Q24 and 54 respectively. Other Brooklyn routes that run largely or entirely in Queens- 55, 56, 58 and 59- had their B prefix replaced with a Q. All converted routes continued to operate out of their original Brooklyn Bus Division garages, of which Fresh Pond is one- even though it's actually in Ridgewood, Queens.
Several DOT franchise routes still have letter suffixes: GBL's peak-hour 9A, 10A and 22A; Triboro's 19A and B; QS' 65A. A shortage of usable numbers is probably why these designations remain- although back in the fifties, part of the 19A was known as the 51 and part of the 19B was the 52. Of course, 51 has been claimed by Stengel for its sole express route.
Hello to any one interested and looking for the numbers of all the buses that Suffolk Transit has. So far I just got the few from my company Suffolk Bus. Now if I left out a few let me know. I got these from a sheet in the office and some out of my head that I've seen on the road.
1987 Gillig Phantom
#8703 and 8730 (35 footers)
1991 Gillig (35/40 footers)
#9100-01-02-03-05-06-07-08
I know for sure that 9100 is a 40 footer I think 9102 is also. Those buses are at our Bayshore bus yard
1993 Flxible Metro (30 footers aka Toys)
#9320-21-22-23-24-25-9330-31-32
Half these Flxibles I hadn't seen probably at Atlantic Detriot Diesel on Vets Highway for repair
1996 Gillig (35 footers)
#9640-41-42-43-44-45-46-47-48-49-9650-51-52-53
1997 Gillig (30 footers)
#9721-22-23-24-25-9734
These I'm a little sketchy on these too I see very little of also. Most are at Bayshore and or at a vendor for service.
1999 Orion V's (35 footers)
#9920-9940 This is a definate account of them all. We use these every chance we get or many like the other Gilligs and Flxibles are at a vendor for service. Turbo's go on these easily!
Inter-County has Orions #9911-9919 and 9941-9949
CBS has Orions #9900-9909
Dave
Don't forget 1996 Gillig buses #9654-9667. Buses #9660-9667 were at Southampton, now they are in your area....somewhere. Didn't Suffolk Transit have more Flxibles? Like buses #9333-9350 or so? Southampton and Riverhead have 1997 Gillig buses #9701-9714. Buses #9715-9720 I have never seen. Don't forget buses #9726-9731. I have seen those on the 8A route in Riverhead.
Does the Bay Shore Yard have bus routes S40, S42, S45, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D?
Babylon Yard have S20, S23, S25, S27, S29?
Thanks for a better perspective of the list! Just two 8700's? Wow! Thanks again!
Thanks for your list. I didn't know all the numbers for the Hamptons buses. I seen a few on my runs out to Riverhead and out east. Bayshore do have the buses you named and a few more. I could get them for you when I go into work Monday.
Correction on the Pond Road address. It is 1880 Pond Road. The routes that run out of there are:
S-59 S-61 S-66 S-6a/b S-7a/b/e.
I think these are all of them. We don't have as many routes like Bayshore has. We have more than enough buses to cover them though. If I'm missing some I'll have to check the board again.
Oh yeah I believe Inter-County has the Flxibles that you mentioned in your response.
CBS Lines has Flxibles 9310-9319. I know only a few lines from them In fact, one crosses my street in Coram: The S-60
S-58 S-60 S-62 S-71
Also they have some of the first 1996 Gillig Phantoms and some odd number 93X or 9xx # Gillig shortees as well as some 9700's.
Glad that I could be of help. Until next time.
Dave
They used 8703 today on a Mastic run. Sounds like an old RTS or Grumman. They are kinda growing on me. I'm starting to like 'em. Did you get a look at the operators seat? It sits on a post like stand, no air ride or anything. Talk about going back! They also have green engines in them. 6V71's or maybe early 6V92's. The 6V92 is the silver engine I know but every company is different.
Well it seems that the rest of the New Flyers are not far from service, because the ones that were at the Landover storage yard are now all but gone except for about 15. Haven't been by the Montgomery bus yard to see if the other New Flyers are still there, because over three weeks ago, they had plenty. It is probably getting close to the "BIG BUS GARAGE SWAP" part 2.
I have had problems with AOL, so I will only post in the morning. But here some observations, I saw when I took a bus trip last Thursday.
Buses Rode:
The Bus 63038-AGAIN! Seems to be a regular bus at this time slot
4325-Rode from Ballston to Shirlington 10B
4315-Rode from Shirlington to Old Town Alexandria (10B)
3948-Rode from Old Town to Crystal City (11P)
2045-Rode home from Naylor Road (F14). Banner Free, YEA!
Observations:
-All of the Flxible 30's done in the new paint scheme have "METROOPENS DOORS.COM" on all of them.
-When I rode the subway past the Landover Storage lot it seemed to have more C40LFs there, but the next day most of them were gone.
-Saw an 8700 in non-rush hour service, usually they are only in rush hour service based on they are non-wheelchair lift.
-9395 on 2C and 9397 on 25B, these might be now based at Arlington
-23A have been running 9830s during non rush hour (9830 and 9832)
-4380 is based from Royal which is strange since 4381-4387 runs from
Arlington
-B30 buses have been seen on the F12 (that's right) and the H11 (patronidge) too high for this bus
Non-Functioning Bus equipment:
8812 & 9615 non working destination signs
3948 had a non functioning farebox
4380 I think at one time was a Bladensburg bus that made its way to Four Mile Run and then over to Royal. I'm not sure why they just don't put that one at Arlington either.
9395-9397 are based in Arlington. They only seem to use them during the week as on weekends, all Orions are used. Too bad they just don't put some of the 35 foot Flx's on since routes like the 25B don't get too crowded on Saturdays.
The 23A used to use a lot of Orion VI's, now the have been using a mixed bag, mainly Orion V's, but like you saw, a Flx shows up every now and then.
Had 2005 last night on the 38B both ways when I went to DC. Took that instead of the Orange Line since Arlington County sent out 4 free coupons to ride Arlington buses. Got a transfer for the return trip. The thing was good for 5 hours. Never seen a transfer good for that long. Arlington hss these promotions occasionally and the magazine has a route map of Arlington routes, and the coupons you give to the driver are to be turned in at the depot and entered into a contest. Sometimes its a trip, this time its for a Palm Pilot VII. I have two more to use, so we'll see what kind of free fun I can have.
Saw 3708 on the N6. Kind of funny to see my g/f laugh at that stupid looking Orion II. She said, "what is that???" I didn't go into too much detail other than its a sad impersonation of a bus.
Here is a scary thought. Over a year ago I actually saw one of these
manifestations of evil on a 30 route, DURING RUSH HOUR! Of course this bus was crowded to the hilt. Actually I saw this bus again on a 30 route another day and practically everyday I 30' running on the 30 during rush hour around the same time. Today they are back to the regular 40' vehicles. There really must have been a bus shortage at this time. I think this was the time before the 2000-2200s entered service.
You saw a 30 foot bus on the even 30s? LOL!
I once saw a 30 foot bus on the N4 during rush hour several years ago. I saw it leave Freindship Heights and my 30 bus met it at Wisconsin and Mass and it was packed then!
Then again, 40 foot buses are packed on the even 30s so why expect a 30 foot bus not to be? I think the 30s should get articulated buses at some point.
I think artics would be too difficult to guide through congested Georgetown traffic (and would compound the problem). Maybe they should re-route some 30 routes around Georgetown on broader thoroughfares and use artics on those . . . it would save Metro money by carrying more passengers per driver and relieve congestion on Georgetown buses by diverting "express" passengers.
C
I think an artic can handle Georgetown. There are narrower places articulated buses run in New York (West 87th Street for example).
I would also remind you of my idea for improved service on the 30s provided they had more buses. Have the following routings:
30-Friendship Heights to Archives and Eastern Market SOME BUSES LIMITED
31-Medical Center to Rosslyn ALL LOCAL (renamed B11)
32-Southern Avenue to Georgetown University
34-Naylor Road to Rosslyn
35-Naylor Road to Laffyette Square
36-Naylor Road to Laffyette Sqare
My ideas for the northern terminals on the 32, 34, 35, and 36 could be moved around as seen fit and depending on ridership.
Limited stops for the 30 would be:
Friendship Heights (Bus Terminal)
Wisconsin and Western (Hecht's/Chevy Chase Pavillion)
Wisconsin and Albermarle (Tenleytown)
Wisconsin and Porter (?)
Wisconsin and Cathedral
Wisconsin and Calvert
Wisconsin and 35th (?)
M and 31st
Washington Circle
H and 17th
I and 17th
Pennsylvannia and 15th
Archives (Pennsylvannia and 7th)
Local buses would end at Archives, limited buses would follow current routing to Pennsylvannia and Independance and then make their way to Eastern Market somehow. The reason this needs more buses is because all the routes overlap between the Capitol and Georgetown. The 31 would operate in both directions during rush hours. The 30 limited buses would run from 6 AM until 9 PM on weekdays, 10 AM until 8 PM on Saturdays, and if needed, 12 PM until 7 PM on Sundays. The ?s are for stops I am not so sure need to be made.
What do you all think?
It was a shock to see 30' on the 30s. Number one I thought I would never see a 30' on the 30, even during the late night, because of its patronage. Number two why put a 30' on the 30s when there are other routes that need those buses and would look stupid with a 40' foot bus on it. Also as expected, hardly noone were riding these buses, probably they didn't want packed in those things like sardines and plus not all people smell springtime fresh and minty clean.
One of my co-workers call the Orion II's retarded buses. When the first showed up... they were catching the attention of many people (In a not-so-good way). I've heard many remarks especially when they had those loud brakes.
Wayne
Haha, yeah, my g/f said they looked like the short school buses. I've heard them called different things as well!! LOL
WMATA is now putting "METROOPENS DOORS.COM" stickers on mostly all of its buses. Just look behind the front wheel well and you will see them. Also some buses have the "METROOPENS DOORS.COM" replacing the
"WASHINGTON METROPOLITAN AREA TRANSIT AUTHORITY" on the back some of its newly painted buses (specifically the ex-Ride On) and 5212 and some others. The C40LFs don't have them but I think that the Neoplans will have them.
Pretty dumb. They should just go with the easier-to-remember "wmata.com" -- all metroopensdoors.com does is display a goofy Flash animation and then forward visitors to the real wmata.com site.
C
No average person would guess that wmata.com is the URL for Metro's website although metroopensdoors.com is not much better. I always type in wmata.com out of habit and the animation isn't too interesting anyway.
The public relations people at metro aren't the brightest bulbs anyways. I know one guy that works there and he's a dolt, so.....Metro opens doors allright, in the tunnel, while the train is moving, but wont open them if you're right there trying to get on the train while you are right there or when the bus is to leave the terminal! Me-troopens-doors is what the URL looks like. Blah!! Enough of my rant on thatl!
Yeah, and it won't be long before immature vandals spray paint nipples into the double "O"s, I'll bet. :)
I hate to go down that road, but...
On one of SEPTA's NABIs, some genius decided to put a "y" at the end of the "www.septa.org" (and no, I can't recall which bus it was, but I think it ran out of Southern).
LOL....too funny! It's a bloody shame to see a bus vandalized, but that is creative to say the least. As long as nobody blanks out the top part of the "o" in dot.com, we won't offend the masses! :)
-F.
No average person would guess that wmata.com is the URL for Metro's website . . .
You don't think so? I agree it's more difficult to remember than simply "Metro," but I think most riders know that WMATA is the operating authority, and obviously domains like metro.com were taken in the dark ages (think of all the other "Metros" in the world and then think of all the businesses named "Metro" [Metro Truck Leasing, Metrocab (Boston), etc.]). But I wasn't complaining so much about the domain name (though I think wmata.com is the better of the two) as the dippy flash animation that keeps you from the real site. It seems silly . . .
C
Yes, and my thought is that "metrobus.com" would be a great, simple domain to remember them by...but that term is as common in most cities as roads called Main Street! And of course, in the internet's infancy, someone was BOUND to take that domain, just for the sake of having it.
-F.
Scratch that...it's a legit address for a TA. St. John's of Newfoundland, Canada to be exact. Apparently they have quite an expansive transit service from what I gather by the site.
-F.
Interesting. I was in St. John's about five years ago (stayed there overnight while travelling) but have no specific recollection of their transit system. Nice sleuthing; I guess we'll have to find another prospective domain for Metro. :)
C
Very true. Maybe dcmetro.com or something...it's just a shame that metrobus.com is taken. It would fit WMATA like a glove!
-F.
In fact metro.com is a shelving company. How boring.
Yes...I've seen their stuff. Always makes me think of Flxibles.
-F.
Especially seeing as the following pretty good domain names haven't been registered:
www.metro.us
www.metro.dc.us
www.metro.net
www.metro.info
www.metro.biz
www.metro.arpa
www.metro.gov
www.metro.edu (Okay, this one's pushing it a bit...)
Maybe WMATA could back-order metro.com or if they happen to get a budget surplus, see if that cabinet company wants to sell metro.com.
From the Network Solutions website:
metro.bz is available
dcmetro.ws is available
dcmetro.cc is available
dcmetro.bz is available
metrodc.net is available
metrodc.us is available
metrodc.org is available
metrodc.ws is available
metrodc.cc is available
metrodc.bz is available
metrorail.us is available
metrorail.info is available
metrorail.ws is available
metrorail.cc is available
metrorail.bz is available
metrobus.cc is available
metrobus.bz is available
Unavailable Domain Names
metro.com Back-Order it NOW!
metro.net Back-Order it NOW!
metro.us
metro.biz
metro.info
metro.org Back-Order it NOW!
metro.ws
metro.cc
dcmetro.com Back-Order it NOW!
dcmetro.net Back-Order it NOW!
dcmetro.us
dcmetro.biz
dcmetro.info
dcmetro.org Back-Order it NOW!
metrodc.com Back-Order it NOW!
metrodc.biz
metrodc.info
metrorail.com Back-Order it NOW!
metrorail.net Back-Order it NOW!
metrorail.biz
metrorail.org Back-Order it NOW!
metrobus.com Back-Order it NOW!
metrobus.net Back-Order it NOW!
metrobus.us
metrobus.biz
metrobus.info
metrobus.org Back-Order it NOW!
metrobus.ws
Yeah...the Flash stuff is OK but it really is a waste of space to have a long domain that leads to the simpler one. Catchy slogan, though.
-F.
I always type wmata.com. I thought the first time I typed metroopensdoors.com, it went to the regular website. About eight months later, thinking that they might have added something to the website after metroopensdoors.com, I foolishly typed it in again and got the same thing. Also referring to the name, since alot of the back doors on alot of metrobuses have been malfuctioning at one time, they should change that name to "METROOPENSDOORSMOSTOFTHETIME-WHENTHEYAREWORKING.COM"
Or how about "metroopensdoorsisaprettycoolsloganbutsucksrocksasadomainnamethatisnotreallythedomainbutmerelyapaleflashanimatedgatewaythatistotallyuselessandawasteoftimemuchlikereadingthisveryrambling.com".
-F.
When 60 0r 65 of these bbuses arrive at Mother Clara Hale Depot. What depot(s) will the remaining Orions be transferred to.
hybird? you mean there is a bus coming to nyc that will be powered by a bird. i gotta see this bus. what type of bird the nyc pigeon?
Is this 'bird made by New Flyer? 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
When the birds that say "HY" come to Clara Hale, the Orions will be transferred to my house where I will decide which depots they go to, and which customers get to ride them. Then I will take all the old RTS's that will be displaced by the Orions, start my own bus company called "Big Al's Transit" and only allow people born the same year the bus was built to get on and ride for free as long as they can stand on their heads the entire length of the ride.
BIG AL
AS A FREQUENT GREYHOUND TRAVELER, I BECOME INCREASINGLY DISGUSTED WITH THE SERVICE MORE AND MORE EACH DAY!!!!
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PETER PAN OPERATING IT'S OWN LINES...WHY DID THEY CONSOLIDATE WITH GREYHOUND?.......AND I THOUGHT I HEARD RUMOR A FEW YEARS BACK THAT TRAILWAYS WAS LOOKING TO CONSOLIDATE IT'S COMPANIES AGAIN AND OFFER NATIONAL/LOCAL SERVICE.
ANYONE FEEL THE WAY I DO/OR CAN SHED ANY LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT?
They POOLED, not consolidated, with Greyhound in order to use the equipment of both companies better. Instead of competing on many of the line runs, they now use half of their prior amount of buses to provide the same service, which produced $avings.
In addition to the equipment savings, you only need one set of ticket agents and one terminal in each city - saves on terminal rent when 2 companies share one spot instead of them having to maintain separate terminals themselves.
As far as Trailways' plan to consolidate, that was more for the charter business than for line haul. Trailways recruited a lot of companies in the late 90s to their charter network, since that makes more money than line haul. There are way too many gaps in the system to really go coast to coast. Trailways is primarily an East Coast operator when it comes to scheduled service.
Very true. Abbott Bus Lines (stationed here in Roanoke) did the same thing for those money-saving purposes, hence their new moniker, Abbott Trailways.
The system runs a mix of Renaissance and D4500s and is frequently chartered to Washington. You see their buses at the Beltway a lot near the Red Line station.
-F.
I actually had a good experience on an intercity bus recently. I hadn't been on one for twenty years -- since airline deregulation cut the cost of flying to bus-levels. But we only have one car, and my family was staying on a little longer with the in-laws while I had to get back to work. So I took a Pine Hill Trailways bus, and it was really nice.
Deregulation, competition and low fuel prices made flying cheap in the 1980s. Reducing the quality of service kept flying cheap, though increasingly unpleasant, in the 1990s. Sky high business fares, subsidizing the rest of us, was part of the mix.
But post 9-11, airline costs are soaring, businesses and demanding lower fares, risks are growing, and bankruptcies are limiting competition. All that is needed is a war with Iraq and a spike in oil prices and the days of taking a $99, 300 mile flight for the weekend will be over.
Which brings us back to those nice new buses. Now if they implemented "bus rapid transit" lanes so buses wouldn't be caught in traffic in dense cities, and went with clean diesel with electric hybrids to get rid of the smell, it could be a new era for the land cruisers.
I feel you there; I rode Greyhound back in 1999 to Michigan in order to visit my family and the service was NOTHING like it used to be. The 1(800) man sounded like he didn't want to help me, the drivers were smart alecks, the baggage guys were hateful, and if you asked them a simple question of need-to-know info, they acted like you did something TO them. The whole experience was just horrid.
I am making the same trip with them later this week in hopes that their attitudes have changed. Being that this was the first time I rode "The Dog" as an adult without my parents, I was a neophite to their system and did a lot of things at the last minute. Still, I deserved a little more respect as their customer; it is my business that puts food on their table. I refrained from calling customer service to complain back then, but so help me, if they chew my feathers again I will dial it so fast the phone will catch on fire.
Being a few years older and wiser, I planned ahead and did my homework on this years trip and hope that will help my experience. Looking at the bright side, fares have come down considerably; I paid $208 for my round-trip in 99 and this year it's only 59.00 each way. Perhaps it's the post-9/11 travel scare, who knows.
Speaking of, not to make light of the aforementioned catastrophe, but you would think with more Americans afraid of travel that their staff would lighten up. Anything is better than the treatment I get in 1999. I have more courtesy in my stool sample than those folks did in their entire bodies.
-F.
THE MOUNT LAUREL, NJ PARK AND RIDE SEEMS TO HAVE OLD SIGNAGE ON ROUTE 70 AND 38 LEADING TO IT....AND IT LOOKS LIKE THAT GREYHOUND ONLY IN RECENT YEARS HAD CONTROL OVER IT.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO ORIGINALLY OWNED AND OPERATED THE STATION...AND WHY IS THERE NO NJ TRANSIT SERVICE THAT STOPS THERE?
I see that Greyhound now operates service to Wall Street from that location. Is it a popular service?
T.Beverett
Yes it's a popular service.
There seems to be very frequent service from Mt Laurel to PABT during peak hours. One old timetable that I saw showed 5-10 minute headways to Midtown during peak hours.
Today. I rode the QM4(OrionV CNG #572) to midtown. When 572 pulled into the 36 St Stop on the QM4. It stop at the QM2 Bus Stop then I saw #578 On the QM4 at the QM4 Bus Stop,Left me thinking that my QM4 must have been late or there was one in front of it like about 20 Minutes b/f 572 Came.
When I got off #572 I saw the sign and it was now signed up as QM2 to Bayside via Mitchell Gardens(QM2 go's there on weekends). So is it ture that on satuardays the QM4 from Queens become QM2 to Bayside? If so then the bus I had going back to Queens on the QM4(OrionV CNG #574) must had been a QM2 from Bayside
It's really just a mathematical equation (schedule-wise). Each route operates 60 minute frequency on weekends. The one way running time on the QM-2 is 75 minutes. The one way running time on the QM-4 is 45 minutes. Adding the two together is 120 minutes (2 hours), When one bus interlines this way, it can stay on an easier scheddule for the riding pulic, rather than have a bus depart say at 2:12, it would depart at 2:00pm.
Does anybody here has sounds of septa buses ?if so can you gave me a link.
thanks.
Link To Septa Audio
LOL!!!!
ok i mean real SEPTA bus .can somebady please record a septa such as the new flyer just like new york.
thanks
Today, at the Walter Rand Transit Center in Camden, I saw Greyhound 1005, painted in blue with stiping in red, white, and light blue. My question is that is this an experimental paint scheme or is it a one of a kind paint job?
I believe I saw this same bus last night at NY Port Authority. Although I do not know if this is experimental, I have noticed that the canadian Greyhound buses have that same color scheme, although they have a canadian leaf emblazoned on the side.
Personally, I think this is not a new scheme, Greyhound has a bunch of their new coaches there too...but they are using the old white scheme, with a extra large greyhound on the side, and a red and white stripe that goes from the front to the bottom of the middle of the bus
1005 has always had the same paint....dunno why....it just does
These are 1996 102D3s - 10 were painted this way as an experiment, but it was deemed too expensive to maintain as a standard paint job. The bus is not completely blue; the roof is white, thus two paints would be needed as well as the decal set. The new paint scheme "Dog and Highway" is simply decals on white.
Yes, that solid blue bus with the white and red striping IS an experimental paint scheme. It HAS been around for about five years or so...I think there are three such buses. You mentioned 1005, and I have seen 1007 out hee on the west coast in that same paint scheme. There was a picture of it in one of the bus industry trade journals, and it was mentioned in that photo caption that the low-1000 series 102D3's were originally dedicated to charter-only services. I've seen them doing LA-San Diego line service quite a lot in the past year or so.
I haven't seen those buses (1996 102D3's) in a long time now. They used to regularly operate between NYC and Washington, DC. I really liked that color scheme, but I knew it would be expensive. I came close to riding 1007 once, but then we got 1013. I have a soft spot for the MC-12's, but the 102D3's are my favorite buses in the Greyhound fleet.
Wayne
The NYC to DC is probably the one I saw in the blue scheme, although Roanoke is a tad south of Washington.
-F.
I have seen a bus in this scheme; I love it! I'd like to see more of them in this color across the board, especially the new "G" series.
-F.
does anyone here know the specs and powertrains of the buses in their current fleet? i'm not as familiar with ride-on as i am with the metrobuses. also, what retired models have ride-on used in the past? thanks for reading.
The active ones are as follows:
Orion Ones
5500-5545: DD Series 6V92
Orion Fives
5546 and 5547: The one two buses with DD 6V92 engines
5550-5566: Cummins L10
5567-5569: Cummins L10G
5570-5579: Cummins L10 or M11
5580-56XX: DD Series 50
5803-5822: DD Series 50G
Gillig Phantom
5300-5356: Possibly an L10
5360-5409: Cummins 8.3
5410-5422: Cummins L10
Flxible Metros (Aquired from Baltimore MTA)
5700-5703: DD Series 50
Orion Six
5801-5802: Cummins L10G
All of the retired Orion Ones and the TMC Citycruisers had the 6V71 engines.
What kind of Orion Ones? Are these 01.501 or 01.508 or what? Which Orion Fives are CNG becuae I know they got CNG. Also, what's the different between Cummins L10 and L10G? I know what the M-11 and Cummins L10 sound like because MTA LI Bus and MTA NYCT has them in their Orion V CNG fleets! NYCT (#317, #581-610) and LI Bus (#101-287). Thanks for the roster! I remember being down in D.C. and surrounding areas. I'm assuming that the Orion One buses #5200-52xx are already retired? Thanks again W.E.S.
The 5800s are CNGs as well as 5567, 5568, and 5569. 5800s are 40 footers, 5567, 5568, and 5569 are 35. All run from the Gaithersburg Garage.
I am not sure what model number these buses are, but guessing 1.501. Orion V 5567-5569 and 5803-5821 are CNG, with 5567-5569 having L10Gs and 5803-5821 having DD50G engines. The L10 are louder than the L10Gs and 5567-69 didn't have a tailpipe showing, just a sort of netting where the tailpipe is. I also forgot to mention 5704-5725, Orion Vs with regular DD50 engines as the Southern Ride-On lot doesn't have CNG facilities at Lyttonsville.
So there are buses #5704-5725? Do ou know the years they came out? So far, I know #5580-5599 and #5611-5622 are 2001 and #5600-5610 are 2002. What are the rest?
5700s are 99s except for 5700-3 which are 93s (ex Baltimore LNGs)
I am pretty sure 5611 is a 2002. 5612 is definately a 2001, I rode it myself. 5619, 5620, 5621, and/or 5622 MIGHT be 2002s, I forget where the changeover is. 5618 is 2001, I have ridden this bus myself as well.
5704-5725 are Orion 05.501, right? 35ft?
40 foot, all from Silver Spring
The last of the 5200s were retired when the 5580s and up started coming in, also some of the 30' Gilligs were retired also. These buses, along with the TMC Citycruisers had rear windows.
Oh, I do believe that the Orion V series goes from 5580-5610.
Yes and no. The following buses 35 foot buses came in this year.
It started with the 5580s up to the mid 5590s, then 5612 came along, that part goes up to about 5622 before they went back and filled in the order. For example, 5618 is an 01 while 5607 is an 02. 5580 thru 5599 and 5612 and up are at Gaithersburg, 5600 thru 5611 are at Silver Spring. Don't know what engine they have though.
5600-5611 also have DD50 engines
What is the deal with these colors? Blue, Yellow and Green, Green, Yeelow. Is that a style or is that like PVTA (Pioneer Valley Transit Authority in Springfield, MA) with a color coded style. For example, the PVTA bus routes are like P20 (Purple 20), R18 (Red 18), and so on.
Blue are diesel fueled, and the green, green/yellow are CNG
All the buses are blue and white. The exceptions are the 35 foot CNGs, which were originally green and white with a wrap in the windows of a blue sky with clouds. When the 2000 CNGs came in with yellow instead of the white (to sponsor "The Clean Alternative" one of the Metro Washington Council of Governments' Programs) and no wrap, the 35 footers were repainted and had the wrap removed. I am sorry to report I have no pictures of the 35 footer CNGs in their original scheme. The Bethesda 8 (Route 92) trolleys are brown and gold but do not have the standard scheme anyway. Where did you get the idea that the buses were all different colors?
In an old Bus World, One California transit agency had all of their 35' Flxible New Looks in different colors. They had eight of them, and I think their colors were purple, lime, forest green, yellow and forgot the other four colors.
Added with the retire Orions and TMCs is the fact that the Orion ones had numbers in the 5200s and the TMCs had numbers in the 5100s and 5400s before the Gilligs had them. In fact when the Gilligs were being delivered in the 5400s, they were still running the TMCs in the 5400s, these were shortly retired. Also I believe 5546 or 5547 were the first buses Ride-On had that were not 30', these were 35'. Ride-On has never bought a heavy duty 30' bus since.
How big are the Orion Fives?
Orion 5546,47 and 5550-5622 are all 35', and 5704-5725 and 5803-5821 are all 40'. Ride On doesn't have any 30' Orion Vs and conversely they never had an Orion One over 30'.
I was in Hoboken today to check on things at Academy Bus Co.
I noticed in one of their lots were several Gilligs painted white with no special striping numbered, in the low 100's.
Anyone know where Academy acquired them from ? Judging by the placement of the rear doors, I figure these may have been airport shuttle buses.
Bill "Newkirk"
They were airport buses from Hertz. If you go inside them you will see a gold stripe going along each seat.
Jason
Hertz has sold off almost all of their standard high-floor Gillig Phantoms and replaced them with low floor Gillig Advantage buses. That would explain it....
[Hertz has sold off almost all of their standard high-floor Gillig Phantoms and replaced them with low floor Gillig Advantage buses.]
I've used Hertz a few time this year at different locations, and my observation is that they've kept quite a few high-floor Gilligs, although they probably use them more often during peak traffic hours, parking them for much of the day in favor of the low-floors.
Academy is really trying to find uses for all those buses, they were originally bought for the Monorail Bypass Service, since then they have a large surplus. Like with some companies that don't have any extras run their buses to the ground. Maybe the Gilligs will return to Rutgers this year when a new shift starts, the Gilligs transport the drivers to where they need to find their bus, then send the driver who is done for the day back to the garage.
What a great use for them; buses for bus drivers!
-F.
I've noticed the same thing when I've passed through Philadelphia International Airport (a mix of Gillig Phantoms and Gillig low floors). On an interesting note, Avis' shuttle operations have gone from all 35-ft RTS (probably one of the last airports to have such a fleet running for Avis) to nearly all Gillig low floors.
I have seen alot of Avis RTS's at JFK Airport,Mainly the Ex Slopeback RTS's
According to GM RTS production records, Avis never bought slope-back RTS's. The first ones they got were "04" series (squarebacks) in early 1983.
Hertz had shitloads of the slopebacks that they converted with Thermo-King units to the square design.
Well. They got RTS Slopebacks then became Squarebacks and they got them used from Hertz after they change it to a Squareback
WOW...really? Those are 20+ years old and still in Hertz service? Amazing!
-F.
The Complany that have those are Avis and they got them 2nd Hand. They in Avis Service but used to be for Hertz service
I see; thanks!
-F.
And, I believe they still have the 8V71 engine in them. It's an unbelieveable sight to see if you really want an RTS fix.
Wowsers! I've gotta see this. Where are they again?
Er...the Advantage is alright, but I like the looks of the RTS better.
Really? I wonder if Hertz at Raleigh-Durham followed suit. They were running a 30-foot Gillig Phantom there with the funky middle door, and it was not very old at the time, almost new. Do they follow the 12-year rule on updating equipment a la TAs?
-F.
Actually, I don't think they even let them get to be 12 years old. A good friend of mine is the general manager at Hertz's San Diego operation and they had a couple 1995 high-floors sitting in the lot out of service once the brand new low-floors were delivered. I don't know where they sent them, but they disappeared about two months ago.
perhaps they just cycle stuff around their system....I dunno.
Weird. I wonder why 12-year buses would get retired earlier in light shuttle service? To keep the equipment modern for tourists?
Exactly. They've got an image to maintain. "We're Number One!!"
You wanna ride a beat up old rattletrap van conversion for a rental car shuttle, you rent from Budget like I do. :-)
(Hey, they're rates are half of what Hertz's are!!!)
Ugh...van conversions. Yeech. Right up there with Orion IIs. Ugly!
Fred, don't you mean right DOWN there????
Orion II's, van conversions, and school bus manufacturers pretending to built a "real" transit bus....they're all COOKIE WAGONS to me!!
Yeah...down like a flat tire!
I HATE psuedo-buses...they are pure crap to me. The cutaways are NOT buses...they are box vans with seats. Bluebirds, etc.? Forget it! Seeing those in NYC aside NYBS Fishbowls and RTSes is an abomination to me. And the Orion II?!? It looks like something I ate and dropped!
You should have seen another bad example of a transit bus; we had five 25-foot 1988 Skillcraft buses here in Roanoke that were thankfully let go for new Gilligs last year. They had plexiglas faux Prevost windows with purple-tinted lower slides that looked like misplaced standees that you could barely see out of, they had the wheelbase of a Volkswagen, they looked like porta-potties from the rear, and they rode like feces. And everytime they took off, the front ends went up three feet in the air. What's more, right after we took delivery, these became the last 5 they ever made...the Venice, Florida-based company went belly-up the next week.
Very sorry excuses for buses...the drivers hated them all across the board.
I see them every morning and night when I work downtown. They are used as Merrill Lynch Employee Shuttle Buses to and from WFC. One bus in particular, 124 if I remember, says TRI STATE TRANSPORTATION, operated by 22 Hillside Corp., when all the others say ACADEMY. What's with Tri-State?
Tri-State is the company name Academy uses for Newark Airport service.
Jason
Today the Warped Tour invaded Randall's Island and your's truly operated one of the buses shuttling the various pierced, tattooed and multicolored haired fans to and from the show. Two shuttles were operated. One was the X80 which ran from 125th Street and Lexington Avenue to Randall's Island and the other was the X81 which ran from the LIRR station in Woodside Queens to Randall's Island. The X80 was operated by buses from 126th Street Depot and Manhattanville Depot while the X81 was operated by buses from Queens Village Depot and Jamaica Depot. Since I drove the X80, I can give you a little more insight about it. Passengers were picked up on Lexington Avenue just north of 125th Street. There is actually a bus stop just north of the M35 stop that has a sign which reads X80 RANDALLS ISLAND. From there it was standard M35 routing to the island. Passengers were dropped off at a "Bus Staging Area" located between the Bronx ramp and the main roadway under the Triboro Bridge overpass. The fare was $3.00 and was good for a roundtrip. The fare was collected at Lexington Avenue only. Farecode #2 was input into the farebox and destination code #7800 (X80 RANDALLS ISLAND)was used for outbound trips to the island. For inbound trips to Manhattan destination code #7801 (EAST HARLEM 125 ST-LEX AVE 4-5-6 Train METRO NORTH)was used. The running time was 12 minutes outbound and 12 minutes inbound.
Interesting. On the face sheet from Operations Planning, they called for local service in each direction, meaning fares collected to and from the event. However, when I worked this shuttle a couple of years ago (I don't recall the event), the same Fareset 2 was used and the round-trip fare was indeed collected up-front.
For those who are interested, the reason behind the up-front fare is to ensure that the passengers have the necessary funds to return home, ensuring the TA their revenue. This is not an "express" service, per-se. If it were an actual express service, the express fare would be collected each way, and of course, it isn't.
Although I wasn't there tonight, I imagine the routing was similar to that of the past- ignore the posted schedule, make your peak-direction trip, then see the SLD for a possible deadhead trip, or other instruction. Yes?
You're absolutely correct in describing how things operated on the shuttle. I was even pressed into service to do one outbound trip on the M35! I'm curious to know what route the X81's took to go from the LIRR station in Woodside to Randall's Island?
Route: X81333 (X-81 Randalls Island - Woodside Station)
From: 61st Street and Roosevelt Avenue (Woodside Station) to Randalls Island, via- Left on Roosevelt Ave, left onto Brooklyn Queens Expressway, to Grand Central Parkway, to Triboro Bridge Exit at Randalls Island - Downing Stadium. Exit ramp becomes Randalls Island Roadway. Follow Roadway past Parks Department Headquarters and TBTA Headquarters. Do not exit at Manhattan or Bronx exit, to stop at unmarked M-35 bus stop facing south at "Truck Restriction Ahead" sign between red hydrant and "Weight Limit 15 Tons" sign (along elevated highway pillars).
From: Randalls Island to 61st Street and Roosevelt Avenue (Woodside Station) from stop at unmarked M-35 bus stop facing south at "Truck Restriction Ahead" sign between red hydrant and "Weight Limit 15-Tons" sign (along side elevated highway pillars). Follow Randalls Island Roadway 180 degrees to the left. Do not exit at Wards Island, Bronx exit or Manhattan exit. Follow Roadway past TBTA and Parks Department Headquarters. Randalls Island Roadway becomes Queensbound entrance ramp of the Triboro Bridge. Triboro Bridge to Queens, remain on Grand Central Parkway, to Brooklyn Queens Expressway to Broadway exit. Continue straight at Broadway, right onto 37th Avenue, left onto 61st Street, to stand at rear of Q-53 stop, near side of Roosevelt Avenue.
Thanks Brooklyn67. Interesting routing. How much running time was allowed? I wonder if anyone screwed up and exited at the Manhattan or Bronx exit? :^)
I saw way more buses on the X80, as I went up there to check it out to see what's going on - like 20+ runs. I overheard the dispatcher at 125 saying to someone that there were only 2 M35s all day since there were so many X80s.
I didn't go to the concert, but I rode the X80 to see what's up.
I rode 4303 from MHV, also seeing 4803 from MHV.
126th operated many 81xxs and some 82xxs, with one or 2 75xxs in the mix. I also saw 8395 from QV there. There were a lot of X80s that Lexington was lined from 127th to 125th, all RTSs on ther X80.
Anyone else have any comments on the tight fit on the exit and entrance ramp to Randalls Island - no room for error.
It was tight on the entrance and exit ramps to Randall's Island although the exit ramp was a bit wider. I'm kind of used to squeezing through tight spaces since it's a daily occurrence on the M66 line. My assigned bus was 8183 which sounded like it wanted to collapse after a hard run across the Manhattan portion of the Triboro Bridge.
eBay Items 2129839584 and 2130076572
Is Academy attempting to acquire NJT Route 126? They are competing heavily for those passengers with their own services. Are they using the same strategy that Suburban did to get subsidized on Route 9?
Academy took over the Red Apple service that used to operate against the 126 line. They charge $2 while the 126 is $2.10 but the people know who provides the better service. The Academy service doesn't run as late as NJT and I don't believe that they offer any discounts or monthly passes.
T.Beverett
Fare use to be $1.25 as opposed to NJT $1.55, but once they changed Academy changed the fare too. NJT gives a much better comprehensive service. Sad thing is, its almost a slap in the face to NJT, they use NJT units on that line. The buses contracted to Academy are not assigned for that line either. NJT gives them a waiver on off peak times that they can use the buses for other uses, even though I personally think they abuse that waiver. Academy has GM RTS's for that line, but I guess because of their age and condition they choose to abuse the waiver. They really should have bought some Metro-B's from the NJT auction, but since they found out that Flxible went out of business, they dont buy them, they are really into the RTS.
When Red Apple operated the line they used their equipment, but sometimes on the weekends you might have seen one of the two NJT units they had.
Jason
I agree with you 100% but NJT allows them to get away with it. I see one of their units ( 1576 I believe ) and when I look closely I can see when they had Rutgers stickers all over it. I also see Academy using the NJT units out at the Airport on the south street shuttle.
Troy Beverett
Fairview Garage
I think Academy completely abuses the policy, I guess they are trying somewhat to make the drivers happy, alot of them probably don't know a thing about these contracts and beg to take the Novas out.
Academy operates a couple Novas of their own out of Newark Airport which look exactly like NJT units, only difference is the seats. If you didn't know about the seats, you would definetly think its an NJT unit, also because of the numbering. You can find 1049, 1054 and 1055 I believe is the other one out of Newark Airport. I know they really don't want to use those GM's, they should be retired and replaced with fewer but new units.
#1576 wasn't the only one in Rutgers stickers, you also had 1003-1005 and 1575 running Rutgers too in addition to some of the old GM's #24, 54, 79 and 80.
Jason
If you compare the NJT 126 and Academy timetable, you notice that Academy schedules its buses about 5 minutes ahead of NJT buses when headways are 20 minutes or worse - a clear attempt to skim as much business from NJT as possible. Common sense should prevail and NJT and Academy should come up with a pooled schedule so that service between Hoboken and PABT could be more even. In addition, the fare should be the same on both lines and they should accept each others passes. The buses should depart from the same gate at PABT. However, as is often true in mass transit, common sense probably won't prevail!
Not unless Academy is on the losing end, in which we would clearly see another Route 9 situation.
However, the majority of Academy's lines could be competed with as well. Do you need a permit to stop at the Cheesequake Park and Ride?
That sounds like a good idea, but for Academy it wouldn't be a win win situation. Even though the line is the exact same thing of the 126, but if they became together, NJT would now have to supply them with buses for the line, the buses they use on that line now is from that waiver NJT gives out to the contractors which I personally feel that it should investigated, I think the waiver is given too freely and gets taken advantage of.
Academy could also lose some revenue because of NJT Monthly Passes, and it would almost be hard to account for what is owed, b/c alot of drivers are lazy about pushing that button on the fare box 7, I don't know how effective that even is to begin with. When you think about it some people have their preference between Academy and NJT. Asking a private to help out on that line may not also be a smart idea, as you see on NJT Contract Hudson County is not done very well, Academy could very easily screw that up. Whatever contract is not their's, you can be sure that they don't care alot about it.
Those Hudson County Contracts have been screwed up for the longest time. It started with TCT Transit and it is continuing with Academy. NJT needs to take those lines back and run them.
T.Beverett
Greenville Garage can't handle it, I think Meadowlands is probably close to full too. Meadowlands does do alot of work. Even though they rebuilt Greenville, but I still don't think its large enough, right now from what I hear Greenville really squeezes everything in.
Jason
Maybe when they build the new garage in Clifton they will shuffle somethings around. We wanted some of the work at Fairview but we were told that they won't integrate our fare system because we are 100% full service.
Troy
Such lines from Hudson I don't think could go to Clifton, because of the distance from Clifton to Jersey City, the buses would be fueled up more often. I always thought for those lines and IBOA's that are not doing well, they should have a facility at the Acceptance Lot, but that would have to be alot of work, who would want to have a full outdoor facility and then they would have to find a new location for when new equipment comes in.
Some of the Meadowlands work could go to Clifton like the pieces they do on the 190 line or the 320 line could go up and a Hudson Cty line could move in. There would have to be a lot of moving around whenever this garage opens up and it will more than likely involve Big Tree , Wayne , Meadowlands , and Market Street.
Troy
Isn't all Market Street lines going to this new garage? I am sure some lines from like Big Tree would get moved. Why would a line like the 320 get moved if it goes from like Seacaucus/North Bergen?
Jason
Oradell will be involved too. The 175, 178, and 182 will move from Market Street/Clifton to Oradell, as will trippers from the 14x/163/164. I would guess the 190 could be run completely from Clifton in that situation, but it's also possible the 160, 161, 171, and 190 could be moved to Wayne to make Clifton an all-exact-fare garage.
It was a thought that I know will never happen. If this garage is supposed to hold 250 buses then the moves will be interesting.
Troy
Wouldn't Big Tree garage in Nutley be considered a back-up option if they couldn't squeeze the 2, 88, 123, and 125 into Greenville or Meadowlands? Or, in a worst case scenario, since they are going to be getting some of the new Neoplan artics, NJT could shift some routes from Meadowlands to Big Tree. Then again, I don't really know all that much about North Jersey ops than I do about South Jersey ops.
Plus, wouldn't some existing work (ie. the peak hour 190s) be shifted from Meadowlands to the new Clifton garage? If that's the case, then NJT could - if they choose to take back the four lines mentioned above - send that work to Meadowlands.
Even though Nutley is not too far from Jersey City, but is still somewhat out of the way. I have pondered it a little bit now, I think if anything the 2, and 123 to Meadowlands and the 88, 125 to Ironbound Garage. Ironbound is on the border of Newark and Jersey City. Both the 88, and 125 originate out of Journal Square. The 2 line originates out of Journal Square and goes to Seacaucus, meaning if the bus wanted to dead head back from Seacaucus, its not a far ride. I believe the 123 also goes to seacaucus as well.
Jason
Jason
No No No.......all those lines would most likely go the Meadowlands, if anything, we can get rid of a lotta trippers for those lines, like 190 167 166 all those lines we don't need, I mean 125, they could probably change it to a full service line, along with 123, and use mci's on it, that would be cool! 88 and 2 are nice lines too. I say bring em on over here!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
True, but I don't think the 125 should be full service, no offense to Jersey City, but in some places, you are better safe than not with a farebox on those buses. Like the 107 and 108 lines, they keep farebox in them, since they go through Newark and Irvington. Even just the 108 goes out of Newark Penn Station, I guess even there they are just keeping it safe.
They need to do something to attract people to ride the 125 line. I only see people get on by the Union City post office. The vans are killing that line!
Troy
Hmmm...MORE BUSES. If you can't afford the big ones, use WHEELS-style buses. A 30 minute frequency versus the vans lose every time.
I saw this one today on Lexington Avenue - it was an oddball.
Normally, when repainted, the front doors and the rear doors - what was black is now white. Well, only the rear doors were painted white, and it looked funny against the black.
Anyone else see or know what I'm talking about?
Sounds like the bus was in some kind of accident and had either the front dors changed after the entire bus was repainted, yet the new front doors never received a paint job themselves or the rear doors were replaced vice versa of what I just said. My guess would be the fronts were probably the replacements.
BIG AL
here at flatbush we have a couple of 5000`s with white doors in the rear. we also have one 5000 that has one white top and one black top front doors. that really looks good. 5119 to be precise.
Today, for the first time, I was working the post at 41st Road and Main Street where I learned two things:
1)the route of the Q58
2)how to speak Chinese
Here's a brief summary of the buses that were on the line in the order that I booked them.
run 15-bus 9603, run 9-bus 9585, run 3-bus 9597, run 16-bus 9159, run 8-bus 9599, run 10-bus 9166, run 18-bus 9156, run 11-bus 9580, run 13-bus 5072, run 4-bus 5060, run 5-bus 9571, run 6-bus 9573, run 26-bus 4712, run 12-bus 9168, run 27-bus 9151 plus a few more runs.
Notice anything. Every bus on the line was a Nova except for one, bus 4712. The entire day, only 1 4000 ran on the entire line. 1! UNO! I totally forgot Fresh Pond DOES have a few 5000 series Novas.
My point: I don't understand why certain people on this board are always screaming that Fresh Pond runs nothing but old buses. I have NEVER seen an entire line of average length ANYWHERE consisting of nothing but Novas save one. Now before you people, and you know who you are, start crying to me that all the old buses are always out during the week, I was also watching (not booking) the Q17 today, which I would say is close in length (within 5 minutes travel time) to the Q58, and I saw quite a few 4000's running, in fact I would say half the buses I saw were 4000's. So, will some of you guys PLEASE stop crying about how bad Fresh Pond has it. Seems to me they have it pretty good, especially on the weekends. Also, even some of the B/O's I chatted with for a few minutes said they were quite satisfied with the buses Fresh Pond has. If anything, I would like to go on the band wagon to get some decent local buses over to Ulmer Park. That is the depot in Brooklyn that is really suffering right now in terms of up to par equipment. The people of Ridgewood don't seem to realize just how good they are living in the lap of luxury riding nothing but new buses!!!
BIG AL
Hey BIG AL,
I think they speak Korean in Flushing. I thought the samr thing until somebody (a Korean) told me that we are Koreans in Flushing. Weird. I though they were Chinese too! LOL!
Flushings’ Asian community is comprised of Korean, Chinese and other Asian groups as well.
Also good to hear someone saying something good about the depot I grew up watching buses with.
BTW Al, You never told us what you learned in Chinese....LOL.
Well, there are times when the B8 has ALL Novas, maybe some times when there are some 8600-8700 TMCs...I will book the B8 one time so I can see if what I said is true...actually, maybe Trevor can answer that question, since he's usually over there...
Cleanairbus
Naturally whenever a driver needs to pull a bus out, the next availiable bus is given. However, the FP "pullout supervisor" does seem more apt to give/save a NOVA to weekend Q58 runs. Perhaps because of long mileage days for the bus, perhaps for the heavy ridership or perhaps the NOVA's are peppier buses. With the poor reliability and schedule adherence of the Q58 due to traffic conditions, every second counts in making up time with a peppier bus. Even during the weekdays, the Q58 tends to get more than their fair share of NOVA's, and with the Q58 having lots of junior operators, they don't drive the old stuff very often. The other routes are stuck with the oldies! Be it NOVA or an older bus, the suspensions on the FP buses are horrible, thanks to the pounding these buses take whenever assigned to the B57. The fact remains that well over 100 FP buses are 1985's and 1987's, with a good amount of 1990 models. Although some have new engines, they are still 12 year old buses. FP maintance people do the best they can with what they have. Hopefully we'll see some improvement in the coming months with not as old RTS's getting reassigned to FP as they get new ones so FP's relics can make their one way trip to NIMCO.
Hey Bill, you explained everything very well! I remember when the B57 was even worse when it had those cobblestone streets(near Wyckoff Av.), That's when buses took a lot of torture! The B57 is a little better, but streets still need work when it goes near the BQE.
The Q58 sucks, even the Q44 is more reliable. It will never be as great as my B13. I'm glad no one said the Q58 on my "What is your favorite bus route" poll.
The Q58 has problems, rush hour constantly delays the buses, making two or three buses come at the same time. Plus a Q58 Limited would easily fail if it tried to go through Fresh Pond Road, making that idea crap. Also at Palmetto St. where the Q58 starts a third of the bus gets full. And TRUST me, Q58 riders don't have good. The only route where Ridgewood residents truly have it good is the B13, which has a very reliable(accurate) schudule, and it usually gets Novas too. And trust me, the weekend is loaded with 4600's/4700's, go to Palmetto St. station(Myrtle/Wyckoff), I always see them there.
Right now it's slightly easier to get a Nova because the 3900's are being stored.
The Q58 usually gets Novas, which is the reason other routes get dumped with the 4600's/4700's. The Q58 isn't always like this though, once I seen four 4700's in a row.
Oh, and Ridgewood residents will live in luxury when we get the R143 subway cars. I hope they come here first(M-Line). The Jamaica & Woodhaven residents(J-Line) can wait.
The fact is Fresh Pond has over 100 Nova's plus another 40 something 8100's. For argument sake, let's just count the Novas. When I was booking the Q58, I counted around 25 different buses on the line at the same time, at the peak of service on Saturday. I listed about 20 in my first post. That leaves almost 80 Novas. Assuming that, say 20 (most likely less than that) of them are being serviced at the depot, that would leave 60 Novas to be put on other routes besides the Q58.
My point is, the chances of getting a Nova on any other line at any given time seems to be at least 50%, pretty good in my opinion, and I would assume even higher than getting a 4700 being that the yard sld most likely would sent out the Novas and then the 8100s before the 4700s with the exception of the Novas that are buried in the yard.
Doesn't seem like such a drought to me...
BIG AL
hey big al thanks for enlightening some here. you know for yourself here at flatbush we to have our share of 4600`s and 4400`s. but your post earier about ulmer park is right on. the express buses running on local routes are starting to get to the ridership on those lines. i have had people that ride the b3 tell me that there have been actual fights on the bus because of the lack of standing room and room to exit through the aisle.
It's only a matter of time that a fight will escalate into something in whch someone will be very seriously hurt.
Every night Fresh Pond buses fill up the side street below the Fresh Pond Road subway station. These are the buses that do service during the day, plus some more from inside the depot. On weekends, usually the Novas are at the front, therefore they are the first ones to be in service, and the rest behind them are usually the 4600's/4700's and 8000's/8100's. On Sundays there are still a lot of buses parked on the side street, most of them were Novas, but the Q58 still gets a good amount.
Here are some Percentages of the Fleet
252 Buses(with 3900's)
3900's(7): 2.77..%
4600's(43): 17.06 % \
\
4700's(52): 20.635 % > 87'RTS(101): 40.08 %!
/
4800's(6): 2.381 % /
8000's(18): 7.143 % \
> 90'RTS(41): 16.27 %
8100's(23): 9.127 % /
9100's(46): 18.254 %
9500's(31): 12.3 % \
> 98'RTS(37): 14.68 %
9600's(6): 2.381 % /
5000's(20): 7.936 %
Fleet w/o 3900's(245 buses)
4600's(43): 17.55 % \
\
4700's(52): 21.224 % > 87'RTS(101): 41.224 %
/
4800's(6): 2.449 % /
8000's(18): 7.347 % \
> 90'RTS(41): 16.737 %
8100's(23): 9.388 % /
9100's(46): 18.775 %
9500's(31): 12.653 % \
> 96'RTS(37): 15.102 %
9600's(6): 2.449 % /
5000's(20): 8.163 %
Only 42.04% are Novas without 3900's, that's pathetic considering FP stood this way for 3 and a half years. This is a loooong drought!
You're numbers and percentages only hold up if 100% of the buses are on the road 100% of the time. This is not the case. The front line vehicle operations of the depot are the Novas, followed by the TMC 8000's. The 4000's are the secondary or possibly third and last batch of buses to hit the streets (overall.) These are mainly during the rush hours Mon-Fri. Sure some the 4000's do see weekend service and off-peak service as well, but there is NEVER a time where the percentage of Nova buses on the road from Fresh Pond stands at only 42.04%. I would be willing to bet the number is never even under 50%.
Look at the poor people riding the Ulmer Park local lines. They have a very low chance of getting a standard Nova bus. It's either get a 4000 or 7500 or get a Nova and be squashed due to the Express set up. Ulmer Park can't even put the Express Novas on the B6 due to the crowding. Do you think it's fair for those customers who ride that line?
Not counting the Express Novas, U.P. is truely a depot where the chances of getting a Nova is less then 50%, even less then 42.04% for that matter. You have a much better chance at Fresh Pond and you even admitted it has been easy to get a Nova lately at Fresh Pond.
Can the same be said for Ulmer Park?
BIG AL
Thank BIG AL for Tell people how bad We got over here at UP this is are FLeet you see how this looks:
Local
1985-1987 TMC - 4497,4742,4753-4792,4854-4855,4857-4871,4874 - (57)
1996-98 RMN - 7511-7534 - (24)
1996 Nova - 9077-9110 - (34)
that is the Local not includeing the Nova express now you see how bad it is over Here
Talk to the MTA! You guys had good buses.....5075-5099! Those were new and good. YES, they came from the Bronx but at least they were new than those 1996 Novas!
add #4873 and #4879 from Hudson to Ulmer Park. It would make sense. But, as people who works for DOB, logic isnt in the greatest mind.
how about all those mci`s they are included in up fleet so why not post all the #`S here?
Actually Newflyer, we are talking mainly about the local fleet of Ulmer Park. When's the last time you saw an MCI on the B6?
BIG AL
Okay, Ulmer Park is in trouble, they need to do something with those Suburbans. They should be the first one to get newer buses. Hopefully they will get JG's 8500's.
Fresh Pond has one advantage, that's that their buses never got stolen like 5075-5099. All of FP's Novas(except 9186) have stayed in Fresh Pond without been taken
During the fleet changes, UP should get everything except: 9186-9249 and 9606-9618 because they belong in FP.
My question is, why does the Brooklyn Division have to be so exclusive to RTS's? Why can't UP hold Orions?
I think UP had Orion buses #139-141 on the X27, X28, X29 (obviously before 9/11 - X37, X38). That could have been either a trial period for UP or maybe they were short on buses as BIG AL and Q5Merrick say all the time. I did see #139 or #141 on the X28 with UP logos.
I saw this setup on the B1 this morning going to work:
9110
9330
now i even see the 9300's on sundays. Surely there is enough buses of Ulmer Park local fleet not to run the 9300's on sundays:
4854-4872(18)
7511-7534(22)
9077-9110(33)
4753-4792(40)
add #4497 as well and sunday service is covered, isn't it?
Yes, there are enough buses in U.P. to not have to run the 9300's on Sunday. They can just run the 4700 , 4800 and 7500's and let everybody ride old buses that are rattley, slow and sometimes hot. Or they can ride the newer 9300's and everybody can be cramped. Rattley and slow or new and cramped. That's what it boils down to. Is the operator cramped on the new buses? No. Well, actually yes but for another reason that I'll let DHF60 explain away. Let's say no. So the B/O would much rather drive the 9300. If he requests a 4000, trust me, the yard sld will have no problem assigning him one. But he takes the cooler, softer riding 9300 with better acceleration.
Wouldn't you? The people will just have to be cramped, providing the bus get's crowded. I book the B3 on Sunday's and I see many packed 9300's on the line. I do feel bad for the people, but overall, I think they are better off than having to put up with a 4000 or 7500.
Bottom line: ULMER PARK NEEDS MORE NEWER LOCAL BUSES THAN ANY DEPOT IN THE ENTIRE CITY.
BIG AL
Can anyone explain to my why don't they just replace the soft seats with seats from busses that are being scrapped.
I know the 9000' NOVA suburbans are on a platform.
The only cost would be labor.
I ride the B3 Practically every day and cringe at the sight of a NOVA suburban. The seats smell and are often sticky plus the A/C is not that great.
On the B3 I estimate that they are running 60-70% NOVA suburbans (my house overlooks the route)
I remember a few weeks ago I was going to meet my friend who drives the B41. I parked my car at Ave U and E.71St and rode the B3 to KP, the bus I got was 9315. The seat next to the one I was sitting in was vandalised(sp?). This was the first stop on the route and the bus got crowded by the time I got off(6:30pm on a weekday). The next two buses after 9315: 9306 and 9314. The B3 IMO is second busiest UP route. Of course the B6 is numero uno.......
B3#9315
B6#4859
Let's take a looking at what are roster looked like
Before
1987 RTS - 4753-4792,4854-4855,4857-4872 - (58)
1990 RTS - 8340-8350 - (11)
1996 RMN - 7511-7534 - (24)
1996 RTS - 9077-9110 - (34)
1999 RTS - 5075-5099 - (25)
THat was a good Roster But now
After
1987 RTS - 4497,4753-4792,4854-4855,4857-4871,4874 - (59)
1990 RTS - 8340-8350 - (11) - Lost to ENY
1996 RMN - 7511-7534 - (24)
1996 RTS - 9077-9110 - (34)
1999 RTS - 5075-5099 - (25) - Lost to FB
that 36 Buses we lost that we need i think we should at Least get #5075-5099 back
They have 4872 also - and also remember that 4854-4899 were 2X2 seats - both local and suburban
Yeah but let's get it straight for those who get it mixed up! Buses #4854-4872 and #4889-4897 are local. Buses #4873-4888 are or were express. Some people still get those mixed up!
Ok - if the people can stand 4854-4872,4889-4897 being local 2x2 seaters, why not the Nova Suburbans?
Beats the Hell out of me!
#4873-#4884 are express seats, but the seats are not that high, unlike the 9300's. If you sent the remainging #4800's from either HUD or storage, could this help UP?
if you get those back #5075-#5099 plus #7500-#7510 from Flatbush, it might help UP out much better. then the roster could be this:
4753-4792
4854-4872,4874
5075-5099
7500-7534
9077-9110
I wonder how long does it take to reprogram a stop announcement system
because for over a year, I have been taking the F14 either to or from Naylor Road Station and they haven't put in the routing. They have, I've observed put in the metrorail connections, something they didn't have when the first of these things rolled on the 4200-4400s. One other point I don't get, is that the 2000-2200s came about eight months before the remainder of the green line opened, but these buses weren't even programmed to announce the changes, even though they had these changes in store well over a year ago.
Come on over to SubTalk and you'll see that the R-142/142A subway car announcement system on the 2 and 6 lines has yet to be updated with changes from 7/22/01, 9/19/01, and 12/16/01, even the cars that have come in this year. (The cars that normally run on the 5, with up-to-date announcements, revert to outdated announcements if they're sent to the 2.)
I think I can top that. SEPTA's newer buses (NABIs, Neoplan artics, ElDorados, and New Flyers) have a stop announcement system, but get this. The stops called out on the system haven't been changed since the NABIs started arriving in 1996. It took nearly a year and a half before the suburban depots (Victory and Frontier) had working stop announcements on their NABIs.
Also, there have been a couple of new routes added, mainly in the suburbs. On the 305 bus between Darby and Philadelphia International Airport, there still are no stop announcements, even though that line has been in service for nearly 3 years.
Two years ago, SEPTA also split the 92 between West Chester and King of Prussia at Exton Square Mall (still one of the stupidest moves SEPTA has made, since ridership has practically evaporated, thanks in part to the frequent missed connections at Exton). The portion between Exton and King of Prussia is now known as the 133. There still have been no stop announcements added for the 133.
There are some city routes which still have stop callouts on routings that no longer exist. Those have yet to be changed, even though some of those changes took place around 1998-99.
That is worse than WMATA's. These stations have only been open for about a year and a half. I hate to see what happens when the Largo Town Center extension opens and the bus route changes take place then.
<>
...and there are some city routes that don't have automatic stop announcements period. They are mainly routes that didn't start seeing NABI's until a few years after they arrived. Examples: 2, 5, 40, 57.
Clearly these systems are pretty hard to reprogram. I wonder if the L4 does automated announcements, then again, it is a short L1 so it probably can.
At least the WMATA system is smart enough to turn itself off when it goes off the route. For example, the J2 doesn't announce stops within NIH, it just goes dark until it gets back on the route.
i don't think that UP needs anymore 47xx/48xx we have a god part o th 47xx already we should get 9488-9519 when Hudson close that what i think should happend but they might go to Quill before UP
9093 B6
9098 B4
Oh boy,
Okay, let me stop this before we waste more threads! On behalf of BIG AL, DAVID and others.......WAIT AND SEE!!!!! By you saying that those buses should come to UP means you are assuming. Wait until the Hudson Bus Depot closes then watch and learn! For all we know, they could come to Staten Island! You do not know! I do not know! The DOB only knows! Tell you what...call them and ask them! That's not a bad idea though. Although, be prepare if they do not cooperate with you for a stright answer.
I got this brochure at the Ride-On booth at the county fair yesterday. I just scanned it in and have tried to make all the corrections of changes made when I did the OCR.
Ride On Service changes Effective Sunday, September 1, 2002
On Routes 5,6,8,12, 4 19,25 30, 33,34 35 41, 42, 45, 46, 47, 49, 61, 62, 70, 74, and 96 there are schedule adjustments, added or reduced service, and 'fl-equipped changes. Refer to your individual timetables or call 240-777-7433 for exact details. New schedules are updated on the Internet prior to September 1,2002 at www.Rideonbus.com.
Route Changes Related To
Federal Security
Due to Increased Security at
National Institutes of Health and
National Naval Medical Center,
the Following Routes are Revised:
Route 30
Schedule adjustments on this route resulting from
the change in routing at National Institutes of
Health. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 33
Schedule adjustments and revised routing on this route resulting from the change in routing at National Naval Medical Center. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 42
Revised routing between Medical Center Station and Bethesda Station via Woodmont Avenue resulting from the change in routing at National Institutes of health. Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and Sunday. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 46
Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and
Sunday resulting from the change in routing at
National Naval Medical Center. Check your
Schedule for trip times.
Route 70
Schedule ad1ustment to AM and PM lips resulting from the change in routing at National Institutes of health and Naval Medical Center,
Route 34-New Saturday and Sunday Service
o This route will operate additional weekday service to accommodate passengers on Route 35 traveling from Wheaton Station to Medical Center Station.
o New Saturday service starting at 7:00AM to 9:00PM and Sunday from 800AM to 8:00PM with 30 minutes frequency.
Route 35-Route Designation Discontinued
This route will be discontinued. Alternate service available on Route 34 and 47,
Alternate Routes
'Alternate service available weekday, Saturday, and Sunday on Route 34 operating similar routing from Wheaton Station to Medical Center Station only. Passenger continuing to Montgomery Mall Transit Center Thorn Medical Center Station must transfer to Metrobus 11.12, or 33.
o Passengers traveling on Fernwood and Greentree Roads can use revised Route 47 serving Rockville Station, Montgomery Mall, and Bethesda Station. Transfer at Montgomery Mall ~transit Center or Bethesda Station to travel north or south on these roads.
Bus Stops Discontinued
The following Ride On bus stops will be
eliminated.
East on Democracy Blvd.
o At Swansotig Way
o At Fernwood Road West on Democracy Blvd.
o At Fernwood Road
o At Montgomery Mall entrance Passengers may board buses on Westlake Drive or Fernwood Road.
New Sunday Sea-vice
o Revised routing to Operate between Rockville Station and Bethesda Station with additional weekday trips. This route will operate along the same routing from Rockville Station to Montgomery Mall Transit Center.
o New routing will serve Rock Spring Dr.
Rockledge Dr., Fernwood Rd., Greentree
Rd., Old Georgetown Rd., and Bethesda
Station.
o Sunday service from 8:00AM to 7:00PM, Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
Other Route Changes
Route 5
Restructured trips diverting into Leafy House on weekdays, Saturday, and Sunday.
Route 6-Revised Route
o Extended routing starting from Wheaton Station serving Parkside, Grosvenor Lane, and Montgomery Mall Transit Center,
o Schedule adjustments from Grosvenor Station and Montgomery Mall transit Center. Peak hour service to Wheaton Station only. Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
Route 8
Added Saturday 10:57AM trip from Wheaton
Station.
Route 12
12:00AM trip from Takoma Station serves Piney
Branch Elementary School upon request.
Added one in Blvd. and 1:1-9
Route 14
Added one midday weekday trip from University
Blvd. and Franklin Avenue to Takoma Station.
Route 19
Added one midday trip from Silver Spring Station to
Dennis Avenue and University Blvd.
Route 25-Revised Route
o To eliminate difficult turnaround on Sligo Creek Pkwy and Maple Avenue this route is extended to operate on Houston Avenue, Flower Avenue, and Washington Adventist l-hospital with direct service to Takoma Station.
o Improved service to Washington Adventist Hospital on weekdays, Saturday and Sundays. Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
Route 41
Schedule adjustments on Saturday with additional trips.
Route 45
Added 7:55AM trip from Rockville Station to
Twinbrook Station.
Route 49
Saturday schedule adjustments in the direction of
Rockville Station to Glenmont Station.
Route 61
Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and
Sunday.
Route 62
Sunday schedule adjustments in the direction of
Shady Grove Station to Germantown.
Route 74
Schedule adjustments in the direction of Germantown
Station to Shady Grove Station.
Route 96
Schedule adjustments to AM and PM peak hours.
Next service change is planned for
Sunday, January 5, 2003
END OF BROCHURE TEXT
This brochure seems to only be available at the fairgrounds booth. It is not on the website, in take-one racks, or in any other location. New schedules are not yet available online or in take-one racks.
Essentially, the temporary reroutes are no longer temporary and Ride-On has decided that the detours were not the best way to run service. I rode the detour for the 35 twice and it is quite a detour. I am wondering what the 42 detour is going to be, the upper half of the 42 is really going to lose its purpose if my guess is correct (as if it hasn't already).
The one thing I would do is make the WMATA J1, J2, J3, and J9 southbound trips not stop in the Medical Center bus loop but rather at the "South Drive" stop on the Pike. This way, buses won't have to take the time to go into the bus loop, get stuck behind other buses, and have to wait for the light to turn back onto Rockville Pike. So anyone who wants to transfer at Medical Center has to walk an extra 50-100 feet but I guess that is too bad for them, not that many people will have a need to transfer at Medical Center anymore anyway.
Post any information you might have.
The M79 bus, subject to a few minor deviations, runs basically on East and West 79th Street. Because the 100th Street Depot is over 20 blocks away, the M79 bus will not go there!
Not like MJQ is much closer and besides, the M86 only runs 7 blocks away. Also, the 79 came from 100th Street before.
My guess is it is a numbers thing. Can't have too many buses in one place.
Did it come from 100th? It ran out of 54th until 54th closed. Then it moved to Amsterdam. I thought it stayed at Amsterdam until MJQ opened, but I may be wrong.
I had always thought it was 100th, then Amsterdam. Can someone give us the answer here? (Not that I don't doubt you David, I just want to be sure)
Thanks!
I rode the M17/M79 every day to high school from 1988 to 1992. Most of that time, it was out of 54th, with its characteristic Flxible New Looks and 1982 RTSs (100th had few if any of those makes). For the last year or so, it switched to Amsterdam. For a change, I know of what I speak.
I distinctly remember the apple decals on the sides of the buses and then the windmills. Of course after that, it was the big W (I realized later it was a compass) and now Michael Quill. Maybe it had a short stint at 100th Street before going to Amsterdam?
What routes came out of 100th when it closed?
It may have gone to 100th at some point after 1992, when I was out of the city, but I guarantee it went straight from 54th to Amsterdam in or around 1991.
I don't know which routes were out of 100th when it closed. The M86, M96/106, and M101/103 (and maybe 102) come to mind.
The 103 in its current form didn't exist when 100th closed.
That's why I said I wasn't sure.
M86, M96/106, M101/102/103 & X90/92 came out of Old 100th Street Depot when is close on 3/31/1998 also (M17) now M79 did came out of Old 100th Street Depot sometimes early 70's then went to Old 54th Street Depot then close sometimes around early 1985 went to Amsterdam Depot until (West Side Depot) now MQJ Depot on 3/31/1998 when Old 100th Street Depot close.
David J.
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Will Atlantic Express get another contract extension with the city to continue operating these buses after it expires..
Atlantic Express called me up this afternoon and told me that they actually do not want another contract with the city because they have been monitoring bustalk and feel you have been asking too many questions about them.
BIG AL
Im sure their contract will not end anytime soon since there is no more room in SI for the TA to put more buses. From my observations AE seems to be doing a good job. From a bus buffs point of view I would like to see AE continue operating these lines since they operate a variety of equipment. Bottom line is I wouldnt worry about AE losing the contract until Staten Island's third depot opens. (No I dont know when that will happen)
Peace,
KayBee
This will be part one of two posts, reason why is simple. WMATA might be having problems with its C40LFs again.
When I passed the Landover storage yard on Thursday, I thought I saw more New Flyers being stored there in holding until they were put in service in Bladensburg, but Friday they were gone, I assumed to Bladensburg. Saturday, I thought I would head towards Bladensburg as part of a drive-by bus yard tour. When I passed by, It didn't look like Bladnesburg ever received these buses, in fact I could only spot about 30 of them there (maybe even less than that). I got a feeling that they maybe back at Montgomery. I was planning to pass by Montgomery from work Sunday.
When I passed by Montgomery, I spotted over one hundred New Flyers just sitting as they were when they first arrived in January. This lead me to question what is going on. Could these buses be having more mechanical problems, because something odd I spot whenever on my way to and from work, especially on the weekends. In the morning all of the routes that would use the C40LFs have them on them and not another kind of bus. But in the afternoon you would be hard pressed to find one, being replaced by either Flxibles or Orion 6s. This happened mainly during hot days. Are these buses having problems in the heat, because it seems that way on hot days. Could it be Bladensburg, because it was noted that they had problems in reconfiguring the garage to support CNG facilities because of removing asbestos. If there is still problems they should have tried to put more in the budget to have another one ready just in case that they would have problems at Bladensburg, particularly at either Montgomery and or Landover, since these are two of WMATA's newer garages and would have been easier to convert to CNG, since they would not have to worry about asbestos or other problems associated with the older bus garages. Hopefully when they convert Four Mile Run, they'll have better luck.
If anyone knows why these buses are back at Montgomery and not in service let me know, because August was the date when all of these buses should be in service.
I decided to pass by some bus yards after leaving work Saturday and Sunday, Bladensburg and Montgomery are on the first post. I passed by Landover, everything is normal, except that there are now two NABI buses in the new paint scheme sitting in the storage lot along with about 15 C40LFs. One is not 5215 which is still sitting there, I am not sure which numbers these are. I went by Four Mile Run mainly to see if it is possible to fit 250 CNG buses in that yard, which it is possible, but they would have to remove every last one of its diesel buses as well as all of the PRTC buses that are currently housed there, so I assume Bladensburg would be getting some more of this new batch, or another bus yard would be retrofitted with CNG facilities.
I passed by Southeast and this garage looks more run down than it used to be. Its in a run down industrial park and the streets in this park are nothing to write home about. The yard itself barely have not many buses, most of them either in service, or moved to the Annex for storage. The front part of the yard, it has two parts, but the part at the intersection of South Capitol and (road unknown) there was not one bus there. In days past, this part would be full of about 20 buses. The back part has about 20 buses in it, with some Flxibles, some Orion V 40' and mostly 30' Orions and Flxibles, and about one or two Orion 6s. About 10 years ago, there were plans to replace this lot with a new one but either funding or finding a sight killed the project. I should email WMATA to see when they are planning to replace this lot. If I hear anything, I will let you know.
PRTC have Buses in Four Mile Run? And WMATA Drivers from there run those buses? This must be a joke or a lie!
Not a joke. During off-peak hours there's almost always some PRTC buses at Four Mile Run.
Wayne
WMATA won a contract to provide service with PRTC. PRTC provides the buses, and WMATA uses its drivers and maintenance facilities (hence Four Mile Run) to maintain those buses.
i was out and around today and i saw quite a few c40lf's on the R2, 3, 4, and H4. also, are buses not allowed inside Bolling A.F.B. b/c i saw two buses yesterday (W4 i believe) laying over about a 1/4 mile away from the base on M.L.K. Avenue i believe.
There are still alot of C40LFs running out there, but when I last past Montgomery, there were far less buses in there than there are now. Today I saw 2458, 2435, 2395, 2388 and 2403 in service on the 82,83 and 86. Around this time though, these all 164 should be in service, which makes me think that it is the rebuilding of the Bladensburg garage that is the problem, not the buses itself. Also, knowing that these buses were coming in January, why did it take until late 2001 to begin to get Bladensburg able to maintain CNG buses.
Lack of $$$$ maybe?
Maybe. Perfect planning as well as budgeting would have solved that problem. They did come up with some money when they found out that it would have cost some more because of the asbestos problem. But of course I don't run the transit agency or do its budgeting I just ride the buses.
I saw one on the 80.
What runs to/from the depot allow buses to travel on 20th St between 5th and 7th Avenues in Brooklyn. I've observed this area many times over the years. This is the first time I've ever seen buses turning off 5th Ave onto 20th St toward 7th Ave, or vice versa.
Hmm...
That might be some OOS B67s or 75s that terminate in that area...they might be deadheading to and from the garage...then again, I don't really know too well...
that was always the run on and run off for the 67 ,69 and 75. it was cahneged to fort hamilton pkwy a few years ago. with 36,37 street cut closed i guess buses on those lines are using 20 th street. probably the b68 also is using that run on run off route.
These are all put-ins or OS buses from several routes: B67, B69, B75, B77.
The DoT has closed the 37th Street Bridge betweeen 9th Avenue and the Jackie Gleason Depot, so the only access to the depot is via 5th Avenue and 39th Street. This is why you have a back up.
I just got back to New York after four days in Florida. While there, I noticed that PalmTran (Palm Beach County) numbers their buses using four digit numbers, with the first two digits representing the model year. While it's a logical numbering method, it sure looked strange to see bus number 0001! It reminded me of when the first Orions arrived in New York, with the five digit numbers starting with 93.
On a (somewhat) related topic, the school buses in Las Vegas (Clark County School District) are numbered with five digits, the first two representing the model year. Through the 1980s and 1990s, the first two digits of the bus number were the last two digits of the model year (87xxx for 1987 buses, etc.), but when the 2000 models came out, instead of using 00 as the first two digits, they used 20, and then used 21 for the first two digits of the 2001 bus numbers. Does anyone know of any other bus companies that changed their numbering systems to avoid using 00 to start their bus numbers in 2000?
VTA Newer Buses(Gillig Low Floors and New Flyer D60LF's) have the last # in the year as the 1st # in the Number Systerm,Like for example #1001 is a 2001 Gillig Low Floor,The 1st # means for the year the bus came into service and the rest is the Fleet #. This started on the VTA 2001 Gillig Low Floors and the same systerm is now in place on the 2002 Gillig Low Floors and Soon to Be in service 2002 New Flyer D60LF's
interesting!
-F.
Yes, it does make lots of sense. Baltimore MTA uses this type of numbering scheme as well. I know a bunch of Canadian agencies were doing this as well. Of course this won't work for NYCT other than what they were doing with the '93 Orions.
At University of Maryland they have it reversed. The first two digits is the sequence number and the last two represent the year.
Wayne
[Does anyone know of any other bus companies that changed their numbering systems to avoid using 00 to start their bus numbers in 2000?]
I believe Miami-Dade went to 20xx for the year 2000 instead of going to 00xx. Perhaps Albany, NY, did something like that, although I am less sure. I recollect some of the Canadian systems that used the first two digits as the year avoided 00xx, but I can't think of any specific examples right off hand.
Ride-On does it like this: Model year, 5, series number, and then the sequence number, so you get something like this:
005808 (Orion V/CNG)
015618 (Orion V)
995413 (Gillig Phantom)
For radio transmissoins, they just use the last three numbers, for example, 334 instead of 5334.
Yeah, but those numbers are just too damned long. Four digits is plenty!
-F.
Not if no one calls the bus 005820. If it is just 5820 or 820, who cares?
True...the drivers are bound to call them 820 and so on. No WAY I'd do all six digits over the radio!
=F.
RIPTA in Rhode Island does this too, and has since the mid-'80s. There are a handful of exceptions, such as the 4400-series ex-MTA-NYCT RTS-04s, which maintained their NYCT fleet numbers. You're right that it does look odd in this new century, however -- going from fleet numbers like 9804 (the '98 RTSes) to 0114 (the '01 Orion Vs) is a heck of a transition.
The system makes sense as long as no more than 100 buses a year are purchased. Ride-On has sidestepped this issue by using six-digit numbering, with the first two representing the year: 015403.
C
And with Ride-On, the year and 5 don't really mean much. As I said before, if you were driving bus 015618 and you had to call control, you would identify yourself as 618.
Same with our fleet at Valley Metro in Roanoke. Before the 88s were replaced, 8804 would call in as "804", 9105 would answer as "105", and 9409 was simply "409". However, when the 2001s arrived, it has gone back to "0103", "9102", and so on to avoid confusion between the 10 years.
-F.
University of Maryland does it the opposite where the last two digits are the year. For example, 6791 is a 1991 Flxible as is 4291. But, there are some that end in 00 and 01, respectively. I believe the Gilligs are in the 7000's with the last two numbers being 01. They used to have a two digit number system and some still are numbered 30, 31, etc. We would call all buses by the first two as Ride on does by the last three. So if I wanted bus 6891, I used to ask for 68.
RIPTA's model-year numbering started with the 1976 Fishbowls, 761-769. The next order, the 1978 RTSes, had four digit numbers, 78xx.
I stand corrected, thanks. :)
C
Actually, I know of one that changed way before 2000. Blacksburg Transit (VA) has used the following nomenclature for their buses since their inception:
1st digit: Order placed in a given year
2nd digit: Last number of year acquired
3rd digit: Length (<40 is "0", 40 is "1").
4th digit: Number of coach matching above criteria
Examples:
-2603 is a 35-foot 1986 Flxible Metro "B" and was the 3rd coach in the 2nd order of buses obtained that year.
-1618 is a 40-foot 1966 GM 5303 that was the first order of coaches obtained in 1986, albeit a used fleet from Richmond.
-1305 was a 1983 Bluebird 30-footer and was part of BT's very first order, the 5th bus to arrive to be exact.
Now here are some I cannot explain for the life of me: The new 2002 New Flyers that arrived are numbered like this: the 35 and 40-footers are 5207, 5218, and so on. Meanwhile, the 30-foot NFs are 4201, etc.
I know the 30s are exclusive in nomenclature but where the "4" and "5" came in is anybody's guess as it was all one order. Perhaps those were the months they were built?
-F.
Sort-of like a VIN number from a car or engine code? Interesting! Suffolks buses are numbered after the year they were purchased. 1993 Flxible Metro 30 footers numbered 9300 and so on.
Yeah...most TAs go by the year as the first digits;ours does as well. But yeah, Blacksburg does theirs much like the VIN number of a car. Interesting comparision!
-F.
I be gone as of Tommorw at 12:30 PM with my mom to Purto Rico. I would be mostly in Carolina,PR but from time to time I be in San Juan,PR. I would ride some of the buses over there.
Questions
1. How often the buses run in San Juan?
2. How much is to ride the buses over there?
3. Where is a good place to get San Juan Pics?
4. Would I see a San Juan Bus over at San Juan Airport?
Thanks and I would miss you guys! I be back on August 29 or a week before that depending if my mom can get a plane back to NYC a week early. That I won't find out til Tommorw when I get off the plane at San Juan
Any comments on the following changes
1-Extend B-4 from Knapp St/Voohries Ave to Knapp St/Ave X via current route to Bragg St/Voohries Ave then via Bragg St,Ave X,Knapp St and stand. Return via Knapp St and current route
Reason-Bring bus service to several recreational areas at Knapp St and Ave X
2-Extend Q-24 from Lafayette Ave/Broadway to DeKalb Ave/Malcom x Blvd
via Broadway,DeKalb Ave,Malcom X Blvd
Reason-Better connections to B-38 to Downtown Brooklyn and to B-46 to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza especially with the new B-47 terminating at Woodhull Hospital
Any comments
Thank You
I like the Q24 extension, I always felt it should have been extended over to Malcolm X Blvd(a block over) to make connections with the B46. Before the Metrocard transfer, the B46 paper transfers would include the Q24 in its listing of available bus transfers.
Q24#8683
B46#8401
ulmer park will need new suspensions on all buses if the b4 were extended to x. knapp street is one of the bumpiest streets in brooklyn.
Haven't there been proposals in the past to extend the B-4 to Knapp St/Gerritsen Ave so that a route serves the entire length of Knapp Street? This leaves you only one short block from Avenue U, plus there is an easy loop where Knapp Street ends. Make a right on Gerritsen, a right on Ave V, and then a left on Knapp to return to Bay Ridge. Plus there would be easy connections to the B-3 and the B-31. It's only 2 1/2 blocks further up than Ave X, and a lot more convenient for a lot of people.
Any comments on the following changes
1-Extend Q-3 route to 24 hour a day service
2-Extend Q-32 route to 24 hour a day service
3-Extend Q-55 to Jamaica Hospital daily except for midnight hours via Jamaica Ave,Vam Wyck Expressay Service Rd, Return via Atlantic Ave,Leffetts Blvd,Jamaica Ave,Myrtle Ave and regular
Purpose-one seat ride from Glendale and Woodhaven to Jamaica Hospital
Any comments
Thank You
Well, I do not think you are going to get any ridership on the Q3 late night. However, the Q55 idea is a good one. Here's a better idea or ideas:
Q31 - Put one or two bus stops on Utopia Pkwy between 26th Av and Francis Lewis Blvd (JAMAICA BOUND ONLY). The Q31 uses Utopia Pkwy southbound to go back to Jamaica but there are no bus stops along that stretch. I use to run for the Q31 when I miss it. Which means after the first stop (Francis Lewis Blvd and 27th Av) the next stop is 32nd Av and Francis Lewis Blvd. That's a pain.
Q32 - Try to extend the route along Roosevelt Av. Maybe extend it to 114th St (just before the Grand Central Pkwy). Maybe have the Q32 serve 34th Av from 114th St to about Broadway then regular into Manhattan via Roosevelt Av. The Q19B runs on 34th Av a little bit. Besides, the number 7 train takes care of that. They both are parallel from Queens Blvd/Queens Plaza to Roosevelt Av and 81st/82nd Sts.
Q54 and Q56 - Okay, this is a long shot but why not extend them both to 179th St Station. Here's how that can happen. Straight on Jamaica Av, left on 175th St, right on Hillside Av, drop-off ONLY at the corner of Hillside Av and 179th Pl (in front off the Q2 bus stop). I think there is a gas station there but that is why I said drop-off ONLY!. U-turn halfway down on Midland Pkwy (kind of like a F train shuttle) then back the same way and regular to Brooklyn. I was going to say straight on Jamaica Av and left at 179th Pl (following the Q110 LTD) but there are those big white vehicles...called garbage trucks!. That's why I chose 175th St because it's bigger.
Q75 - try extending the route deeper into Oakland Gardens. Like along 233rd St and Horace Harding Expwy, up East Hampton Blvd, ending like on the other side of Queensborough Community College. Nah, forget it!
How about those ideas? Let me know!
Re: Q-3 midnight hour changes i am thinking of airport workers who currently use the Q-3. The Q-3 now operates 21 hours per day and it may be more cost efficent to run 2 hawk buses on a 45 minuate headway
Re:Q-31 ok to me
Re:Q-32 it will duplicate the # 7 subway line so not feasible
Re:Q-54 and Q-56 Not possible. The Q-56 midnight hour buses also do Q-24 trips ie: Q-24 from Brooklyn to Queens
Q-56 from Queens to Brooklyn
Q-56 from Brooklyn to Queens
Q-24 from Queens to Brooklyn
or Q-56 from Brooklyn to Queens
Q-24 " Queens to Brooklyn
Q-24 " Brooklyn to Queens
Q-56 " Queens to Brooklyn
Thank You
How about the 34th Av? Make the Q32 run on 34th Av. It already duplicates the #7 from 82nd St to Queens Plaza. Ok on the Q56 but what about the Q54? There is no midnight service?
The Q-54 can not be changed because it's midnight runs also make the B-39 trips during the overnight hours.
Also how far north is 34th Ave from Rooservelt Ave?
I am not that familiar with that part of Queens
Thank You
34th Av is about two blocks north of Roosevelt Av. It's like Northern Blvd with every light at the corner BUT it's also has an isle in the middle of the street. It's a beautiful street. The Q19B runs on it for about 5-10 blocks....I think.
Forget about running the Q-32 along 34th Avenue. Too close to the # 7 line
Thank You
The median running along 34th Avenue, which is three blocks north of Roosevelt, would make running buses along it highly impractical. The frequent presence of double-parked vehicles makes it impassible. The 19B running along 35th Avenue, which does not have a median, routinely gets bogged down by double-parkers.
Besides, 34th Avenue runs one block parallel south of Northern Boulevard and the Q66.
Over the years there's been talk about extending the Q19 from East Elmhurst to Flushing. But securing the street rights for Triboro Coach has kept this from happening.
The idea with the Q55 is good but how about running it along Hillside to either were it intersects Metropolitan and follow the Q54 to Van Wyck or run it down Hillside to Van Wyck to the Hospital .
That's a DAMN good idea! Hillside Av is known for buses, so why not extend to thw Q55 to Van Wyck Blvd (Expwy). Good idea!!! The idea of follow the Q54 is not that good to me because that could cause traffic on a very tight Metropolitan Av especially around Jamaica Av.
To extend the Q-55 via Hillside Avenue will take it out of the way since the bus is already at Jamaica Avenue
How about extending and rerouting the Q-43 from the Jamaica LIRR Station to Jamaica and Myrtle Aves via Hillside Ave and extending the Q-1 from 165th Street Terminal to the Jamaica LIRR Station replacing the Q-43 service
By changing the Q-43 you will have a one seat ride on Hillside Avenue from end to end
Thank You
Okay, I can see that but why extend the Q1 of all routes? Why not the Q2 or Q3?
The reason i picked the Q-1 is that it operates on Hillside Avenue the second longest. The Q-2 is also OK. The Q-3 does not operate 24 hours and its also a Jamaica Depot route with a pull out and pull in which is nearer to 165th Street Terminal than the Jamaica LIRR Station.Also the Q-3 will have some competition to the Airport when the new Air Train begins operation next year
Thank You
Oh yeah, that's right! Maybe the Q3, Q10 and Q10A could be cut or something of that nature.
The impact on the Q3 may not be that great from the arrival of the airtrain because a)if there is a premium fare of some sort on this airtrain the lower-paid airport workers may not agree to this and b)what part of the Q3's customer base boards the bus in downtown jamaica? do most of the Q3 customers going to the airport get off the F train or do they come from the neighborhoods that the 3 serves while enroute to JFK (Hollis, St Albans, Springfield gardens, farmers blvd corridor)?
Okay, so the Q1 you say but that means BOTH Q1 bus routes? What would take the place of the Q1 at the Jamaica Bus Terminal?
Yes both Q-1 branches will terminate at Jamaica LIRR Station
Thank You
Okay, you did not answer my second question though. What would take the place of the Q1 at the jamaica Bus Terminal. Keep one thing in mind...there are two open slots. Would the Q17 come back to the terminal?
Will have to think about this one and get back to you
Thank You
Okay, do you have a AOL IM? This way we can talk rather than take up thread space, LOL! I love it though!
Please e mail me at BarryLv@netscape.net
Thank You
I live very close to the Q55, and been on it many times. What I have to say is that it has one of the most unaccurate schudules in existance. I almost wanted to burn that damn schudule because it there were a few times where 3 buses came at the same time. During rush there are only 6-8 buses running on the circle(entire bus route both ways).
Obviously I know Ridgewood has small streets, and heavy traffic on Fresh Pond RD. and Myrtle Av., but the Q55 should take no longer than 10 minutes to get from FP Road to Palmetto St. Sometimes those idiot trucks park on Myrtle Av. getting in the way, especially near the Food Dynasty Supermarket(near Genovese).
When there are two buses back-to-back, hopefully this new destination will be better for the Q55, but for back-to-back buses, in this situation why not let the one only go to Richmond Hill and the other go to Jamaica Hospital. The way I see it only a few Q55 riders will probably still be on pass Richmond Hill. Ridgewood residents could care less about Jamaica Hospital, since Wyckoff Hospital(where I'm from) is closer. Glendle residents have little interest in JH as well, most of them use the Q55 just to get to the Q29 or Q11.
I don't see why they have to make only one destination to JH where no people from Palmetto St. will take it that far(in fact most don't go past 70St.). Trust me two different destinations (like the Q46) are better than one. Let's just see how bad things are going to turn out when this happens.....
How about this change
Since all Merrick Blvd routes Q4,Q5,Q42,Q83,Q84 and Q85 operate to Jamaica Center Station how about rerouting the Q-42 to Hillside Ave to give passengers an option if they wish to go past Archer Ave.
This way the Q-42 can pick up additonal ridership and weekend service can be returned
Any comments
Thank You
The Q42 use to end at 88th Av between 169th St and 170th St. The first stop would be Hillside Av and 168th Pl. I use tolive in that area when those bus routes dominated Hillside Av! Where would the Q42 terminate this time around? Although, it sounds like a good idea. Actually, it is a great idea! BIG AL should like this one. Nice job, Barry. My opinion, I would have the Q42 terminate on Hillside Av and 168th St where the old Q5 had its first stop. Currently the Q2, Q3, Q75 and Q76 stop at the old Q42 first bus stop at Hillside Av and the corner of 168th Pl.
I'll admit, it's not a bad idea, but transit will turn around and say anybody who wants to go past Archer can simply transfer over to the Q17. Another problem is more runs would have to be added. Transit would rather add additional runs to the Merrick blvd corridor buses. Still another problem is Jamaica depot itself has no more room to accomidate additional buses.
Personally, I think a rather quick fix for the Q42 without having to add too many more runs if the people really want to go past Archer would be to have the Q42 follow the Q83 after Parsons & Archer and end at 153rd st and Hillside ave. Then follow the Q83 back again to the Parsons/Archer subway lines and run the regular service.
But as you all know everything is politics.
BIG AL
So, BIG AL let me ask you this: If the Jamaica Depot got a NEW Depot (bigger and better) and could welcome more buses. DO you think Jamaica Depot bus routes would change in terms of increase service and reroutes as we have been talking about?
Part of the reason for the new depot is to increase the service. The depot would be bigger, thus accomidating more buses for increased service. In terms of rerouting, I would say (even though I probably shouldn't) that some reroutings would probably happen some time down the road. Of course, rerouting a bus line is not as easy as it sounds. Like Brooklyn67 said, you have to make sure you are not just duplicating other lines, making for unnecessary service. Rerouting means you are usually adding runs. More runs means more buses means more operators means more money. That's the issue. Does transit want to spend it? They would rather spend that money on painting buses that they plan on retiring within one more year...
Another issue when it comes to reroutes is transit has to have community board meetings to get the people's opinion of it. History shows people never approve of ANYTHING that is transit related other than increase of service issues. You will have your NIMBY's crying they don't want a bus running down their street. They will call their politician to have the reroute issue blocked. Next thing you know, that's the end of the reroute.
The only reroutes that I know off on the drawing board right now involving Jamaica Depot are the Q3 & Q4. Transit would like to see the Q3 make a pass by the general post office in the airport on the way out like the JFK Flyer. The Q4 involves two separate reroutes, one of which I believe should be implemented fairly soon, involving having every other E/B bus travel into the V.A. Hospital. The other would be more like an extension, having the buses terminate I think at Elmont Road or perhaps Central ave. near Key Food if you know where that is. I believe the only issue was how the bus would turn around. That scenario has been on the drawing boards now for almost 5 years but I have not heard anything of it lately. The V.A. Hospital reroute was progressing much faster.
BIG AL
I've always been in favor of a Q4 and X64 extension into Elmont in Nassau County. Customers who get on/off at Linden and 235th Street often are seen walking across the Cross Island Pkwy and into Nassau.
The problem has always been the turnaround at either Elmont Road or at Central Ave. One of the better turnarounds is to follow the N1 route along Stuart Ave and Elmont Road.
As for the Q4 into the VA Hospital--makes sense.
Mark
Saw this bus this morning in front of the Jamaica Depot. Kinda odd to see an RTS in all white with masking and paper still around the windows. Also, I saw QV bus #7027 at Parsons/Archer doing the Q 83. Nice to see there are some 7000's left. Too bad they don't run any of them out of Jamaica. Seems nowadays, it's almost impossible to get a 6V-92 on the Q5....
Jamaica's old blue soft seaters 3807 & 3818 are now at Carlton storage.
Thank you, Bill. I haven't seen 3818 in a couple of weeks and I got a little worried.
They are getting rid of the 7000's?
Oh yes, sadly. They were only refurbished not too long ago, but this was only a temporary measure until they could get new equipment. Just once, I'd like to ride one on the Q5, but I know that will never happen. Alls I ask is that Jamaica keep the low 4000's just a little while longer. I hope wherever 4349 is now, it's being well taken care of. That was a good bus....
It in Manhattanville from what I understand.
That was a waste of time. Or maybe it wasn't. If I could I'd like to purchase one.
The only way you would be able to purchase a city bus is through a scrap dealer. Perhaps that scrapyard in Riverhead. NYC absolutely WILL NOT sell transit equipment to any private collector.
Riverhead won't or else the buses would be gone by now....trust me! I have a friend who is trying (and I mean trying) to by a GMC RTS-04 ex-QSC bus and the guys at the yard are....well let's say that they are not letting go that easy. I do not know how much my friend is planning on spending. I know it's in the thousands! LOL!
I think it's a wasted effort. His best bet is to buy a bus from out-of-state. Transit agencies outside of New York I find tend to be somewhat more receptive.
Okay, I'l let him know that. Thanks!
I am greatful to the people at Altoona Metro Transit (Amtran) who did sell me one of their buses. Course, I don't think they have any RTS's.
Anybody who wants to buy a transit bus (non-NYCT) should click on www.transitsales.com. Then click on inventory. They have every type of bus made that they will be happy to sell to anyone. I wouldn't mind buying one of their Flxible 870's myself. They even have a Flxible newlook for sale. Be sure to check out the pictures of their Orion I and II's also.
BIG AL
Rats! I guess I would have to go that route or E-Bay! Thanks!
Or you could try to find Danville Transit (VA) somewhere online. Their last RTS purchase was in 92, so you never know...also, Virginia Overland Transportation has a few 1980 models...not sure, but they may have a suprlus unit to sell. I know they have some ex-Richmond Flx New Looks they were either to sell or scrap..I'd love to get one.
-F.
That sucks rocks. Why not?
Years ago, there was an incident IIRC with Green Bus Lines. They sold a few of their buses (Old Looks), and private individuals put them back into revenue service (a sort of dollar van, if you will). From that point on, city agencies are vehement against selling their transit equipment to private collectors. M.S.B.A. is no different. I would have loved one of their fishbowls, but they would rather see them scrapped.
HEHE...that's great. But those buses probably would not have lasted very long without a rebuild. ;)
I was on bus #4217 this morning (and of course I was in my glory hearing the sweet sounds of a 6V-92 engine), and the driver said he actually PREFERRED one of the 8900 buses. So I ask him "why?" - they rattle like crazy with those crappy series-50 engines. He said they're more comfortable for the driver. I guess different strokes...
That's terrible. What a horrible mentality they have!
-F.
Yes, but I know it happened. I look at it this way - NYC is probably the worst place to buy a piece of transit equipment from anyway. All those years of deferred maintenance really took its toll on the fleet. Incidentally, you were right about Berry Blue Pepsi. It's excellent!
Really? That's good to hear about the Pepsi Blue...it's great stuff. I wonder how long they will make the stuff?
I fell into an unguided tour of Detroit as you can tell from my other posts, and the RTS fleet at DDOT looks good on the inside, but the outside of some of these are really rough..bumpers peeling up, etc. And I don't like the cruddy black wheels on DDOTs...these could really benefit from either white wheels or Alcoa aluminums.
Also, they run New Flyer HFs and Orion Vs here as well. SMART is running RTSes and Gillig Advantages.
And what a shame about NYC. But as you say, the damage is already done...
-F.
I was never really a huge fan of the RTS's. I always liked the fishbowls much better. I recall the fishbowls M.S.B.A. obtained from the city (the 5500's) had been driven to hell and back, but when they were scrapped they still had alot of life left in them.
One of the worst RTS's I had seen (still in service) was actually not in the city, but out here on L.I. I remember Long Beach RTS #156 (which was their only RTS and was also only 30 feet long!) had broken windows, loose body panels, and bumpers peeling. Still, it was unique because of the length. They had it up until about a year ago, then it mysteriously disappeared.
A 30-footer in Long Island? That strikes me as odd...you'd think they would move more passengers than that on a given bus. Sounds like that one really got trashed!
I'm more of a Flxible fan, but I appreciate the RTS for what it is, i.e. one of the original ADBs. I always liked its looks.
-F.
No not really. In Long Beach, a 30-foot bus is all you need. I used to love their 30-foot 1978 Flxibles. Actually, don't ask my why but I prefer the Flxible Metro over the RTS. I never cared for the door mechanisms on an RTS. To me, it seems silly to have doors that open out and extend away from the bus.
Don't feel alone; I prefer the Flx Metro over the RTS myself. And wow...they had 30' New Looks? Wonder where they all are now? And what replaced them?
-F.
I can recall when Long Beach had baby Fishbowls as well (I remember bus #142 had a beautiful beach scene painted on the sides). What replaced the New Looks are their current fleet of 30-foot 1988 Gilligs. M.S.B.A. ordered the same buses in 35 and 40-foot versions, but of course now with the big push for CNG, they're all gone. One of the last times one was used was during the 9/11 tragedy and that was bus #544.
I see; I'll take the Fishbowls over those Gilligs any day!
-F.
As I was getting on the 403 bus to Philly this morning, a interesting thought comes to mind, does any other transit system in this country has a fare collection system like NJT? Are most systems on the exact fare (NJT has exact fare in most of the cities), or do they make provisions like NJT on the long distance lines?
Which routes use these model buses? I've asked a more general question before but "AcelaExpress2005" directed me to a website which didn't have a breakdown of the fleets and models of buses and which are used on which providers.
A quick count from each website:
MTA - 234 bus routes
NJT - 238 bus routes
Next are the fares for NJT buses. Does it differ by distance like the fares for its rail lines?
MTA NYC Transit - Almost all X-series lines from Brooklyn and Staten Island (I think Queens as well, but don't quote me on it)
NJ Transit - Most 100-series routes (110s, 130s, 140s, 160s, and 190s) into Port Authority Bus Terminal; also on 64, 67, 68 and 75 routes serving Newark and Jersey City; South Jersey sees the MCIs on the 401, 402, 406, 408, 409, 410, 412, all 550s out of Atlantic City and most 300s between Philly and the Jersey Shore (Cape May or Asbury Park).
NJT bus fares also differ by distance, as they do on the rail lines.
There are VERY few routes that are flat-rate in NJT, the Route 80 (Exchange Place-Gates Av via Journal Sq) is $1.00 for the entire route...that's because it's within one zone.
AFAIK, ALL Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island X-series lines carry some or mostly MCIs. The x80-series and the x90/92 do not carry MCIs...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Motor Coach Industries"
The NJT Fare Went Up. So it's now $1.10
Is that the right date for the end of the $4 Express Bus Fare? And also was the 1/2 Fare for 65 and Up and the disabled was $2 then?
It was December 1998. I remenber doing an extra, extra(UP had to add more buses because of the dammand). It was a two triper to the city, on my second trip I read ended a truck inside the Tunnel. That was my first at fault accdent as a driver.
Robert
Sorry, but it wasn't December. The 1998 MTA Annual Report says the fare was reduced to $3 in March 1998. Demand for express bus service started climbing immediately and continues climbing to this day, though not by the leaps and bounds that it did then.
David
Just in case anyone is interested, I have put a custom-painted San Francisco Muni PCC by Corgi up on eBay. It's in the whte/red/yellow/brown "Landor" paint scheme as many of the buses still are painted.
Item number 1758078317 if you've interested.
Very cool! The Virginis Museum of Transportation is actually restoring their D.C. Transit PCC car, which has sat faded for years and took a big bath in the Flood of '85. I wonder how well the Corgi DC unit matches its progress..it looks totally different!
-F.
Oops...that's Virginia. Typo much, Fred?
-F.
Hehehe, you could have done an even worse typo. Vagina...???
LOL...I cun't see that happening, Steve!
Just returned from a short trip to Montreal. The STM buses (Classics and Nova Low Floors) still use fifty year old manual
non-egistering fare boxes (vaults at the bottom). On the trips I toook virtually no one paid a single cash fare - either used subway tickets or monthly passes.
So if you still want to see really old fareboxes, head north.
Here's one even better; Blacksburg Transit still uses the old round glass-type farebox across the board, even on the New Flyer LFs. Very retro-interesting...you can see all the money, just like the old days!
-F.
Prince George's "so-called" transit system uses a similiar kind of farebox, but this one is a portable one mounted on a pole behind the driver. I hope this is because they are going to get outfitted with the new fareboxes that is supposed to be appearing in at least the WMATA buses right around now.
What do you mean by so-called? Not much I know about PG.
-F.
They don't have the kinds of buses like the other major transit systems in the area have. They have Gilligs, Thomas SLFs, Thomas high floors, and alot of startrans, one door shuttle type buses, not any you would really see on a Metrobus, Ride-On or Fairfax Connector route. I often wonder when they will turn the corner and buy some heavy duty buses.
Gilligs I can handle. I also like the Thomas SLFs. I can do without the Thomas HFs and the StarTrans units. Sounds like their locality is low-budget and does not want to but any cash into buses.
-F.
Unfortunately. Maryland provides some of the funding for The Bus, and whoever runs this transit agency should ask for better, heavy duty buses. It was sad to hear that one driver had to drive a HOT! bus for eight hours during a recent heat wave. They have seemed to upgrade the school buses they have here, now it is time to upgrade its transit vehicles and get rid of those oversized vans, and Champions (ala losers). And this is sort of surprising in that they have CNG fueling and maintainence facilities.
GATRA (Greater Attleboro-Taunton RTA) in SE Massachusetts also uses such vintage fareboxes. I've seen some held together with duct tape!
C
Manchester NH Transit Authority also uses vintage, non-electric fare boxes. They've had them in service since 1974, when they were originally installed in their then-new GM Fishbowls. They're not all glass, but some of them look a little beaten.
Nashua NH Citybus also uses non-elecric fare boxes that look a little beaten as well.
Mark
What kind of buses do the boxes ride in now?
Did you see any GMC New Looks while you were there?
I was in Montreal and in Ottawa a few weeks ago. I saw New Looks in Ottawa (during rush hours) but I didn't see any in Montreal (on the weekend).
I did not see any GMC new looks. The STM (Montreal Transit Corporation) buses were either Classics or Nova Low Floors, both 40' long. I also saw some Longeuil Transit (South Shore) buses in the Montreal downtown underground terminal at the Place Bonaventure - all were articulateds (looked like Van Hools).
The CN building, or the hotel across the street? I've been to Montreal twice (with a third trip at the end of next month for the last Expos game in Montreal) and never saw anything that looked like a bus terminal. I stayed at the Hilton Bonaventure.
-Hank
The terminal is well hidden, located at least one level underground below the Place Bonaventure, just south of the CN Central Station and Queen ELizabeth Hotel. If you are in Central Station follow signs into the Place Bonaventure and then follow signs for the Terminus RTL. You will not need to go outdoors.
The buses cross the Champlain Bridge to serve various communities on the South Shore opposite Montreal. Bus traffic is so heavy that a contra-flow lane similar to the Lincoln and Midtown Tunnel approaches is used in both directions during the appropriate peak periods.
Didn't see much today, but did see a doubleheader on the A12,15. Actually one was an A12 and the other was an A15, both going to the Landover Station. Couldn't get the A12 bus number, the A15 had 8815. I think one bus was late, not sure which. Saw New Flyers today, would have been nice to see all 164 in service, which instead of about 70% of them being stuck at Montgomery would have been in service about now. I have been seeing buses deadheading from runs on the 30s back to Bladensburg, CNG and diesel which is sort of a waste of fuel. They should make use and put it on a route that terminates near Bladensburg from that point or where it would take less time to get back to Bladensburg, even changing drivers if had to.
Also saw 4311 running on a Royal route, apparently they transferred too many of Royal's 4300s to Western.
4311 was never up at Western.
I did see 4306 today.
Friendship Heights bus terminal has reopened after the "repaving". I didn't see much different.
Code Red today and tomorrow.
Yes, it was along with 4310. The last time I saw it was at Friendship Heights Station right before they closed the terminal down for repainting. This bus along with 4310 went back to Royal. Both were there for a brief time.
Too bad 4309 can't come back too before it gets destroyed running on the 30 lines. The equipment that run on that line sure get a workout as long a route as it is.
Are the E routes any better for you? I saw it there once.
I saw some Metro-Bs on the 30s yesterday. Now that is a workout for them!
Also saw Ride-On 5409 (the 30 foot Silver Bus) on the 1 or 11.
All those crosstown runs are rough on the buses! Maybe the E6, haha. Those 4300's were in pretty decent shape that Western now has since they were only operated M-F. They were too babied in VA, now its time to put them to work, I guess. Just take it easy on them!!
I'll see what we can do! The N routes? Those aren't the most heavily used lines. Could also put them on the N7 but that is a pretty long trip. The M4 is low used but has some horrible streets. I guess Western isn't the place for babying buses...
just wanted to add... Those Ride-On high 53XX series and 54XX Gilligs are 35 feet long.
Wayne
And a record 5 people on the Ride-On 27 including myself not counting the driver!
Not good to have short term memory loss, but also remembered seeing 4391 another B30 bus used this time on an F8. I get the feeling that Landover might have a bus shortage. In that case would they get 8954, 8723 and any other bus in that repair lot repaired quickly and put in service. I have seen more B30 buses in service on other routes than I have seen in service on the B30. This is not the first time I saw surburban seating coaches on local routes. Before they were retired, the Flxible New Looks surburban were often in service on the F2, F8 and in the early 80's one was seen regularly on the V14. Wish I would have gotten the chance to ride one of those.
The New Look Suburbans were pretty neat, but a pain when on local services. You could see the look of panic in the riders eyes when it would pull up on the Q2 during rush hours. It took forever to unload at Silver Spring as it was packed to the doors and only had one door to boot.
On top of that it just looks really odd seeing a high seat bus on a local route. Also with the regional bus study, they did talk about over-the-road coaches in the plans, I wonder how far away that is and what routes these buses would run on. I would take a guess and say that the B30 and the smartmover might be one of them and maybe even the N11 and N13.
B30, SmartMover, but I am not so sure the N11 and N13 are long enough to get coaches. They also often get 15 people in the peak direction per trip and run virtually empty against the peak.
They could use them on the 12's in Centreville and the 20's to Chantily possibly, along with maybe some of the ones to Bowie. Who knows, if they get the over the road coaches, they could just take over PRTC and use those buses to run whatever they are already operating.
J8 and J9 could also be candidates as could maybe a few of the Z routes. It occurred to me after posting.
I might want to include the 87 and 88, but would be more the old 87 that use to run from D.C. and using the BW Parkway (I often call it the BW parking lot). The new 87 makes more frequent stops than the old one, plus it is not long enough to support over the road coaches.
The old 87 was great. Never took it, but it was nice for those to have a one seat ride from Laurel all the way to downtown DC rather than paying to ride the 87, then another fare on the metro at Greenbelt. They should have it run to DC in the peak and to Greenbelt non peak.
They should have kept the 87 as is and use the 88 to run from Greenbelt to Laurel, but I can see why. It is faster to use the rail, based on how the BW Parking lot gets at rush hour, but I am sure a real bus fan and not a yuppie commuter would enjoy that ride. I sometimes, if I am not pressed for time take the N11 to Branch Avenue and take connecting buses to get home. That and I am cheap.
I prefer taking the bus than the rail, too. It does take longer, but I don't like being underground all that much. I like to be able to see things other than lights flashing past me.
Also, to me it gets really boring to run the same route all of the time, and to this day I do not like using the orange or the blue line
to get to my destinations, just to redundant, with a bus you don't have the chance to be bored. You can take any route variation plus you can see more scenery than with rail.
I think I might have asked these questins before, but i forgot the answer to it.
1. When are these going into service?
2. Specs of the buses (i.e., tranny/engine, seating type, fuel type (HEV possibly?), etc)?
3. Are these going to kill off whatever is left of the MAN SG-310's?
4. What else is on the horizon in terms of bus purchases? (the 87-88-8900 series seem to be the first victims:-( I would personally like to see a new fleet of Gillig Phantoms so the entire fleet doesn't become "Orion V Land". Thanks for reading.
Can't answer all your questions, but --
I think these units are supposed to be delivered this fall, most likely with conventional diesel power. It seems likely that the MANs will be phased out, given that they're now some of the oldest buses in the fleet. Some others on this board have speculated that oft-photographed unit 5119 will be saved for the historic fleet.
Speaking of artics -- Ikarus-NABI 5235 is now also sporting a metroopensdoors.com tagline on its rear, supplementing (but not replacing) the "Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority" legend. It also, somewhat redundantly, has the little "Metro Opens Doors" logo placed to the left of the URL. I sure hope they shorten the text to the pithier wmata.com before they start phasing this in fleetwide on future rehabs . . .
C
They are supposed to be delivered in October. Not sure what specs they will have but I would like to see them outfitted with Ballios destination signs, I think those look cool. Unfortunately, the remaining MANNs will be retired even though they are still needed, since WMATA only ordered 21. I know most likely they won't be CNG. I would like to see more diversification. I would rather see a Neoplan, NABI or New Flyer, but please NO MORE ORIONS. Fairfax Connector and DASH are supposidly ordering more Orions. WMATA is currently putting out bids for about 250 CNG buses to be based out of Four Mile Run, but again NO MORE ORIONS, especially the Orion 7, they look like "Frankenbuses"
1. When they arrive
2. Diesel buses
3. Yes, the number ordered is equal to the number of MANs, although 5119 was repainted so who knows what that means...
4. More CNG buses and personally, I think the Orions are fine. We do not need Gilligs, that is for sure.
The WMATA Neoplans are slated to arrive in late October, roughly the same time as the New Jersey Transit artics or perhaps a bit after.
As far as specs go, I am not at all certain on anything, but knowing WMATA, I would guess these specs:
- Luminator Horizon all-LED signage
- Detroit Diesel Series 50 diesel engine*
- Plain, uneventful interiors
- Numbered 5300-5320
Also, what is going on with the digital security cameras in WMATA buses? I read somewhere that all buses would get them, but then read a more specific report that only 100 units would be so retrofitted. In June, I rode a very new C40LF and it did not have the cameras. I suspect that the Neoplans won't, either.
There were 33 MAN artics, but now, about 20-25 are active. The Neoplans will probably be a one-for-one replacement of active MANs.
For the next large order of Metrobuses, I don't know what makes you think that it will be Gilligs (or what makes you want Gilligs.) While WMATA has been purchasing low floor buses, I don't see them aiming for a 100% low floor fleet; they just have too many routes which are better suited to standard-floor buses. That being said, I do seem to think that Orion has delivered its last bus to WMATA. If the Neoplan artics are successful, I might expect WMATA to purchase Neoplan standard-floor 40-foot buses.
* Yes, I realize that this is a 4-cylinder engine. Some TAs, such as OC Transpo in Ottawa, have experienced problems with S50-equipped artics, especially when the a/c is going. Hopefully, WMATA will opt for a more powerful engine, but I have a feeling S50 is what we're getting... In regards to the HEV, don't expect to see that on an artic for a long time. Artics are not good for testing alternate fuels, and a CNG-powered artic would require some major modifications that would affect the bus's apperance.
Also, I forgot to mention that WMATA did demo a 40-foot Gillig Phantom in 1990. They hated it.
(Does anyone know more about this? I think they might have actually had a quantity of them on order but cancelled it.)
I remember that when WMATA was about to get their first Flxible Metros, they did entertain an offer from Gillig, but apparently chose the Metro instead, good choice. They did get about 20, 30' Gilligs, which have since been retired. I think they were delivered along with the 9200 series Flxible Metros. Of course their retirement says something about Gilligs. They ran in Southeast and were delivered with the 9200s and I would say if they were 30' Flxible Metros, they would not have been retired and also Southeast has had 9276-9280 for as long as they have had the Gilligs, and yet these buses show no worse for wear, even though they are couped up at a cramped Southeast bus yard.
I believe the Gilligs were actually purchased by the DC Government to be used in SE DC. This is why they never made it on a lot of runs in other parts of the area.
That would explain why they were never seen outside of D.C.. It is the same thing with the Orion IIs and not to beat a dead horse, but let's be glad they only run in D.C.
Would Anacostia count as being within the DC limits? Because I have a picture of a 30-foot Gillig at Anacostia Station...
Cleanairbus
Yes, Anacostia station is acutally in DC.
Wayne
Anacostia is very much in DC and is not really near the DC line anyway. That was the easiest place to get pictures of them until Branch Avenue opened. Even after that, the only other really sure place was Congress Heights.
when is the neoplan are coming?
WMATA had planned for them to come in around October, but with WMATA you never know and with Neoplan sometimes delivering buses early sometimes, could be as early as September.
oh that's good that around the time njt get them
* Yes, I realize that this is a 4-cylinder engine. Some TAs, such as OC Transpo in Ottawa, have experienced problems with S50-equipped artics, especially when the a/c is going. Hopefully, WMATA will opt for a more powerful engine, but I have a feeling S50 is what we're getting...
I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Neo artics have either a S60 (a la Bee Line) or even a Cummins ISM (a la San Francisco MUNI). Considering that the NABI artics have a ISM engine, WMATA may have the ISM engine as opposed to the S50.
As for SEPTA's Neo artics, some of those buses have little power when accellerating from a dead stop. I think part of that can be attributed to the S50 engine. I don't know if that's the case with the NYC artics...
I thought the NYCT NF artics had pretty decent acceleration. I freely admit that I haven't ridden a crowded one in a long time. WMATA NABI's do seem to struggle slightly from a dead stop, but they can sure haul a** once they get going.
Wayne
does the ny one does they have a fast accelration than the septa ones?
Well, slightly...
The 1997-98 New Flyers tend to have a faster acceleration than the 1999-2000 ones, but I think the 2000 ones have a slightly faster acceleration than the SEPTA Noplan artics.
Cleanairbus
oh the neoplan has a unique engine for a neo. aritic.
I would probably be more shocked if these buses come with a DD Series engine than if the even used a Cat 9 engine. Up to this point, WMATA has not used a Detroit Diesel in any of its 60' buses. The MANNs used, of course used MANN engines and the NABIs used M11s. Baltimore MTA also uses the M11 in their 60'. Even in some of WMATA's 4000-4100s, the engines seem to lag in acceleration, (except for 4005, which had superb acceleration, even though the driver didn't like the bus handled. Hell I liked it. I also heard that New Jersey's Neoplan artics will use a CAT 9 engine, is this still the case?
for the nj artics yes.that's a powerful engine.
I agree with you. Now the DD Series 60 for transit use is new in this arena. The ones in use at Westchester County Bee Line are rated at 330HP and 11.1 Litre diplacement. That is nice power to have in an Artic. The Series 50 has a 320HP and 8.5Litre displacement. The Cummins M11/ISM has been available in transit buses much longer than the Detroit Diesel Series 60. Baltimore used the M11 for the first time in 1994 with the Flxible METRO's and have been in use since. The M11 is a very nice engine and has ample power for a broad range of applications including Transit. I can't wait to see these new NJT artics with the CAT 9 engines.
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D#1975
The Series 50 has a 320HP and 8.5Litre displacement engine is the one on septa new flyer that's engine has a slow govern pick up.
the ddc 60 @ 320hp is way faster becouse of 6 cyclinder which make it faster.
DaShawn, do they have a smooth sound and good power? I heard the MTA Baltimore units with M-11s really fly and scream!
-Fred
i heard that to.i heard that the MTA Baltimore artic. and go very fast around 80mph!
The 10 HP difference between the S50 and S60 wouldn't make that much difference in acceleration, the difference however is in the torque output of these engines. The 275 HP version of the series 50, the most common, has torque ratings of 800 and 890 lb-ft., while the 320 HP version used in aticulated busses have torque ratings of 950, 1025, and 1150 lb-ft. The Series 60 OTOH, the lowest torque rating available is 1250 lb-ft., the rating I've seen most in the motorcoach brocures I've read is 1450 lb-ft, (highest available is 1540 lb-ft)This is why busses with the 60's really fly.
i can see the.so if dcc have 1540 lb-ft they will be just as fast as the dcc 60 on artics.I know in septa they have they lowest torgue verision avalable.i guess.
for the SEPTA's Neo artics they do have slow power pick up but when they reach about 20mph they have a faster pick up .i think it a govern when they pick up to provent sliding in the winter. does the bee-line have that slow pick up?
Oh, HELL NO!
Those Bee-Line Neoplan artics can pick up, even on a hill with a 10% incline...those Neoplans, especially when they came in, were hauling at about 450hp, now they are down to at least 375-400hp...
Cleanairbus
do they pick up like njt mcis.
also what verision of the dcc 60 engine it has anyway.
They are just as good as the NJ Transit MCIs...they have what seems to be a low-sulfur version of the Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine with an Allsion B-500R transmission.
Cleanairbus
This problem is due to the governing of the engine. Here in NYC our Artics are Series 50 equipped but depending on the year they have different HP ratings. The 1xxx series which are 1st generation have 315HP Series 50's with DDEC III Electronic controls, The 2nd generation artics 5250-5509 are equipped with 320HP Series 50's with DDEC IV. The TA has managed to govern these buses to 35-40 MPH top speed! This is rediculous and its a shame because this also stresses the engines and causes problems like slow take off and especially when the HVAC system is in use. This also applys to any engine. The key is to make sure the RPM's are appropriate for the use of HVAC, otherwise this bus will be considered a DOG! There are few buses out of each series that will do much better than 35-40 MPH and most drivers pray that the mechanics don't get their hands on them and turn them down.
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO "D" (40102-4D)#1975
Wow! I never knew how low the TA capped the D60's. I always thought that the D60's did 50mph on highways and high speed sections of any given route.
Some! Not all! It is so sad when you realize what they do to these things!
Peace!
DaShawn
Yeah, Mr. Flex...
Gear grinding might also be a problem on them damn thangs...I hear that shit all the time...every time I hear a 1997-98 NFI D60HF, I hear that shit...sometimes I hear it with the 1999-2000 ones...especially 5424 and 5479, those are the worst...KB doesn't seem to know how to fix those two...I've heard strange sounds from those two buses every since they came out...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"New Flyer Articulateds"
why they just don't govern the transmission gears down to 3 gears.It probaly pick up faster that way than to have 5 gears =40mph.I know on all down govern buses most of them in septa make a funny noise when pick up.You could just hear the slownest of it.
Our Flxible New Looks here were 3-speeds, but our TA blocked out the third gear as it rode too rough, so they were 2-speed buses for the duration of their service, a la the old Chevy Powerglides.
The dispatcher used to tell me this when I was little: "The Flxes have two speeds...Fast, and Superfast!". :)
-F.
what is the lowest they can set the govern speed. i guess 30mph.
also how does the five speed transmission ratio speed go for 4.
is it like this?
1st gear=9mph
2 1/2gear=15
2 gear=20
3 gear=25
4 gear=28
5 gear=40
i don't know how it works i thought it was imposible to govern a bus with five gears less tha 50 mph?
MTA NYCTransit has achived the impossible. Your idea above is just about correct. 1st to 2nd gear is about 5-7MPH, 2nd to 3rd is about 12-15 MPH, 3rd to 4th is about 20-23 MPH, 5th gear happens at about 30-33MPH, the max is at 40 to 42MPH. Now some buses are lucky and they top out between 50 and 67 MPH. But these are far and few compared to how many of these buses we already have in our ownership. Hope that helps. I am glad to have friends as Bus Operators who keep me informed on what is going on in the Department of Buses.
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D (40102-4D) #1975
i always thaught that 4 gears in 40mph.but with 5 gears.That will cause problems on the engine Because these engines are best operated at 50-70mph.Has their ever been a ungovern bus in NYCT?
why do the TA govern their buses down to walking speeds.i know that septa is govern all their buses down all the to 35-42mph.
thanx in reply
MTA buses are governed to 55MPH. Could be fuel savings, as an Orion or MTA above 55MPH will probably start to head south on their fuel economy. It may also have something to do with the amount of highway running, as MTA buses do very little 55MPH running compared to NJT.
Not all MTA buses are governed to 55MPH. It would be nice if they were all governed to 55. Maybe in the outer boroughs like Staten Island and Queens. In Manhattan and the Bronx the Artics are governed to 40MPH as well as the RTS's. Now in some Depots the buses are governed to 55MPH or better. Also, when these buses come back from Detroit Diesel they are also running they way they should which is 55MPH or better. The majority of Hudson Pier buses do 55MPH or better but Gun Hill buses are on the low end at about 40 to 45MPH.
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D #1975
Most everybody does that, especially if routes are seldom on highways. At the museum, our restored Grumman from here in Roanoke is governed at 55, while the PenTran Flx New Look from Hampton Roads will run up to 70 MPH as those did a lot of freeway express runs, being right on the Peninsula and all.
-F.
A couple of simple reasons:
1. Speed is the "NUMBER ONE REASON" for vehicular deaths in the U.S., if a busis strictly on a local transit route, top speed on the bus doesn't (or shouldn't) matter.
2. The manfacturer of the "City Mile" tire will only back up their product when a vehicle is under 55 MPH. If over that speeeed and the tire blows out, resulting in any accident, the tirecompant cannot be held liable.
I would suggest the Cummins ISL. Very smooth, great sound, and plenty of power. It would do well in a New Flyer LF.
-F.
I think the WMATA Neoplan Artics will be a bus that's somewhere between the SEPTA and the Bee-Line Neoplans. In fact they'll be closer to the Bee-Line artics, but don't be surprised if they are not much different than SEPTA's. or they might be a hybrid- look like SEPTA but have the engine like Bee line's.
I'm all for a diversified fleet, but goodness... I certainly don't want to see any Gilligs coming to WMATA. I'll be happy to see those old Gilligs leave.
Wayne
It's about that time of year again, my favorite time of the year, football season and with the football season coming, will be Redskin shuttle buses. Now these buses run from practically come from all of WMATA's garages, using the Landover, Addison Road and the Cheverly Stations to transport fans to the games. From Landover these buses will turn onto Landover Road, heading towards Landover Mall, then turn
onto Martin Luther King Highway, then onto Bell Haven Drive and finally onto Sheriff Road, to a spot past an elementary school to the stadium. From Cheverly, these buses head on Columbia Park Road, continuing to when the road changes to Bell Haven Drive to Sheriff Road to the Stadium. From Addison Road I think either these buses go on Addison Road, to Martin Luther King Highway to Sheriff Road to the stadium or turn on Central Avenue to Hill Road to Martin Luther King Highway to Sheriff Road to the Stadium, although they might take the former because of the construction on Central Avenue and Hill Road to extend the Blue Line to Largo. Also WMATA uses shuttle buses going from the Capital Centre (that's what I will always call it), using Arena Drive to the Stadium.
Yes, I look forward to that as well. Montgomery usually sends it's MAN and NABI artics.
Wayne
They have a preseason game this Sunday at 8pm, which I find a little weird for a preseason game time.
Is the Capital Centre still there? I thought they were ging to knock it down. What is it used for?
Considering that USAirways just filed for bankrupcy, it may be officially called that again.
I believe it was to be turned into a shopping mall and have a Magic Johnson owned movie theater. But, it sounds like all of that fell apart. Its an eyesore right now. Although, my high school had its graduation there when I graduated in '89, as did most PG County schools. Not sure where they go now, but it was nice to be there. It was kind of funny to come through the loading dock and see the hockey nets and basketball equipment as we made our way through. I was hoping they'd flash our names on the scoreboard, but that didn't happen. lol
They are supposed to start building the new "Capital Centre" next year. Would be nice to have the subway station at Largo Towne Center built within the shopping center. Magic Johnson I think backed out of his plan to build a movie theater, but the shopping center is planned. I graduated there in 91 and this year's class did the same. A friend told me that they were graduating from the Capital Centre, because Cole Field House was not available. I think that is where P.G. public school graduations took place up until this year. They probably will use the new Comcast Center when it opens for the new Terps basketball season.
That's good to see the PG schools still graduating from there. Where to graduate from? I went to Northwestern. They tore the old building down recently and built a new one. Haven't been in there yet, though. I used to take the old C2 when it passed by once in awhile instead of taking the cheese bus. I rode by first Flxible B one day on the R2 back when it ran from Brookland to Calverton, too. It was funny because the R2 used to run past our rival at High Point also. Could have a nice turf battle with that line!
I went to Parkdale. Unfortunately no bus ran by our school until the
green line extension to Greenbelt opened and the F6 ran on that.
I did walk one time to catch the 84 after our cheese didn't show, took it to New Carrolton and caught the F14 home. At this time Bladensburg was still running buses on this route and I remember catching a Metro B. This was also the time the F14 ran on the other side of New Carrolton on the same side as the 84, now it runs on the other side. I also couldn't stand High Point and it was a thrill in our senior year to sweep those bums in basketball. Wish we could have played Dematha too, might have beaten them also.
It is right now being used basically as a parking lot for the Redskins home games and last year only used again as graduation site for P.G. public schools. Would also be nice to use this as a temporary park n' ride lot with bus service either going to Addison Road, Landover or New Carrolton.
Also these buses usually run around 4 hours before the game start and run till the stadium clears out.
According to WMATA, due low ridership, they will no longer have shuttle buses from the Cheverly Metro Station. THAT SUCKS BRICKS!!!
Do they ever use the Metro Ds or any of their kin on this shuttle?
-F.
Last year, at least, the only Flxibles they didn't use were the 8700s
8900s and the 9200s, everything else was used. And here's another tidbit. WMATAs new schedules feature, guess what?, a Flxible D 9702, and this from a transit agnecy with Orions and New Flyers as their new equipment. Also, you see pictures of Flxibles on its timetables at Metro Stations and other places as well.
OOH...where can I find a schedule with 9702 on it? Tell me!!!
-F.
The best place to get one would be to visit Metro Center, they should have the up to date schedules. I probably should have a scanner within the next couple of weeks and I will try to scan one.
Awesome! Scan it and put it here for all to see!!!
-F.
Yes people, Orion Suburbans are finding a new home.
Tonight, while running for the X9 at the WFC, I saw Orion V Suburban 142.
142 had Michael J Quill Depot stickers on it.
142 was on the X26 to Penn Station.
Any more heading that way? Also, why do they need more suburbans? Are the 7038-7049 being scrapped (or even 1852???)?
I wounder if this means Suburbans would be on the M10/M20 Lines?
That would not work by any means!
i would have sent #7039-#7049 off to Ulmer Park to help them. at least these buses wouldnt be so bad on the local routes, compared to the 9300's.
Buses #7038-7049 use to be at Ulmer Park. That's were they started their second life span on the X27, X28 and X29.
Oh please, Haven't you been reading my other posts about Ulmer Park? Those poor guys have it bad enough over there. They don't need more clunkers thrown at them. The people are better off riding the 9300's even if they are cramped up for a short while.
BIG AL
Those buses were in storage in Brooklyn. I'm surprised Quill got them! X26 huh? I wouldn't be surprise to see them on the X90 and X92.
I forgot to post this earlier, but didn't have much time at work today to come on here, but after wondering why there weren't any 35 footers used on Saturdays, saw one about three hours later being used on the 1C. It was 9490. Also saw 9395 later on serving the 1C. This also tells me that they are finally not using Orions all the time on the weekend Arlington garage buses. Since those 9390's were out of Royal and were M-F buses since Royal isn't open on the weekends, they're probably trying to save the mileages on the newer buses and use them on these other ones to even them out.
Also, on Sunday at the Huey Lewis and the News concert at Wolf Trap, saw Orion V 4226 being used on the shuttle that runs from West Falls Church Metro Station to Wolf Trap. He must make a few trips because when it arrived at 6:15, it only had a few people on it, but when it left after the concert was nearly full. I was going to park at the metro station and take it, but its not worth paying $4, $8 including my g/f, to ride it when the parking was free at the concert. Plus we listened to the Best of Huey Lewis and the News on the CD player on the way home. : )
I think people who either ride or drive the Orion IIs on a daily basis might be paraphrasing a Huey Lewis song in singing "I Want A New Bus, one that don't look like crap".
LOL!!! They definitely wont be singing "Happy to be Stuck with you".
Huey Lewis and the News? They're still performing? Yipes...
As long as we're on a similar topic, SEPTA operates a loop between Center City and the Mann Music Center for most concerts. Generally, a 40-ft bus from Southern is used, but on rare occasions when a larger crowd is expected, an artic from Allegheny is assigned.
SEPTA doesn't really that good of a job promoting this service (then again, they don't do a good job promoting anything except for an occasional ad pushing Regional Rail parking).
Haha, yeah, they're alive and well. Its nice that they offer the shuttle to people who want to go to these venues but don't have a car. There is also that Cultural Loop in Chicago that runs to all the museums.
I was in Suffolk County yesterday and noticed at least two Gillig Suffolk Transit buses in the new paint scheme. One was #9641, which I believe is a 1996 model.
Are all buses getting a repaint ?
Bill "Newkirk"
I suspect that as buses need a repaint, they get the new scheme. I don't know of any plan to repaint all the buses, and not that many have been repainted to date.
A few 9100's have the new paint scheme also. They could tint the windows on them to make it look a little better.
Just saw 9102 with the newer repaint this afternoon.
Today they sent that bus to Ronkonkoma as a rescue bus for 9734. One of the drivers had mechanical trouble with that one. It was signed up as 7E when it left the yard with a mechanic.
Dave
They also had repainted two relief vans at Bayshore, ex-school vans with the new scheme. They look nice.
Also bus #9647 on the 3D last year was in the new paint scheme. Also, all the 2000 series Gilligs and Orions are already in the new scheme. The idea is to repaint them all.
Today on the S-45 #9655 has the new scheme too.
Also, your e-mail address is not right, I had a few returned e-mails returned because your e-mail address is not right.
The man JUST got back from vacation and in life, there are more important things than buses...like the real world. Let him get readjusted to real life, and he'll post when he's ready to. Until then, don't harass him. He does this as a favor to us, not because it's his job.
at least he makes his email address available to his fellow bustalkers unlike you.
Steve happens to be one of the kindest and sincerest people I've ever had the pleasure of corresponding with online. The man is so passionate about his hobby, he posts and makes available his personal address and telephone number so those who are interested may contact him for information while he's away from the internet.
If you're so curious that you can't wait until he's completed his new site, why don't you search the Talk archives for his phone number, call him, and ask him personally?
....and if you're going to have an attitude with anyone around here, it had better not be Steve. Try me, instead.
Troll.
My trip report with travels from the past week is now available on SubTalk. It consists of 5 parts. Part 1 is the National Building Museum transit exhibit. Part 2 is the trip on the Acela Express in First Class to New York and my bus rides of the next day, including a ride on Orion VI/HEV 6350. Part 3 is about my trip to and from Shea Stadium the day after that. Part 4 is about my subway excursion (which includes some bus rides). Part 5 is about my trip home. All parts are posted as responses to the part before. Part 1 is available at http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=368139.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
www.orenstransitpage.com
Quite a mess with all these service changes in place. I can already seem some problems with all this.
1. The 34 and 42 now run almost identical routes between Medical Center and Bethesda. The difference is the 42 goes straight up Woodmont Avenue while the 34 takes a slight diversion onto Battery and Old Georgetown. These trips also leave both Medical Center and Bethesda within minutes of each other. I would eliminate route 42 and run the 34 to Friendship Heights in its place.
2. The 6 and 96 are now separate routes completely. Good for the 96. It now runs a schedule during rush hours almost identical to what the 6 did prior to January of last year. It still does not serve Montgomery Mall until 9:30. The 6, on the other hand, is a mess. Wheaton service is now peak direction only, with trips from Wheaton in the AM and to Wheaton in the PM. Parkside is served on trips "from Montgomery Mall" essentially in the same fashion the 47 served them. But, during PM rush hours, Parkside is served on trips "to Montgomery Mall". Buses leave Grosvenor after the layover, go to Parkside, then go back to Grosvenor before going to Montgomery Mall. The eastbound buses go to Wheaton without serving Parkside. I wonder if this route will become operated by the county instead of ATE/Ryder.
Should be interesting to see what becomes of some of these combos. The 6 and 96 could be in a combo of some sort (both under the ATE contract still). The 38 just lost its combo partner (the 35), so I wonder what will become of that route. Since the 47 was a county route, I would not be surprised if the 6 becomes one, too. Then again, if the 38 is in a combo, the combo has the buses doing round trips on the 38 (from what I can tell) starting at Wheaton.
Let you all know what I see come September 1.
Once again, here is the brochure:
Ride On Service Changes
Effective Sunday, September 1, 2002
On Routes 5, 6, 8, 12, 14, 19, 25, 30, 33, 34, 35, 41, 42, 45, 46, 47, 49, 61, 62, 70, 74, and 96 there are schedule adjustments, added or reduced service, and lift-equipped changes. Refer to your individual timetables or call 240-777-7433 for exact details.
An advance copy of all schedules is available here:
http://www.emontgomery.org/dpwt/transit/schedules/default.asp
***Route Changes Related To Federal Security***
Due to heighten security at National Institutes of Health and National Naval Medical Center, the following routes are revised:
Route 30 Schedule adjustments on this route resulting from the change in routing at National Institutes of Health. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 33 Schedule adjustments and revised routing on this route resulting from the change in routing at National Naval Medical Center. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 42 Revised routing between Medical Center Station and Bethesda Station via Woodmont Avenue resulting from the change in routing at National Institutes of Health. Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and Sunday. Check your schedule for trip times.
Route 46 Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and Sunday resulting from the change in routing at National Naval Medical Center. Check your schedule for trip times. .Route 70 Schedule adjustment to AM and PM trips resulting from the change in routing at National Institutes of Health and Naval Medical Center.
Route 34-NEW SATURDAY NEW SUNDAY SERVICE
This route will operate additional weekday service to accommodate passengers on Route 35 traveling from Wheaton Station to Medical Center Station.
New Saturday service starting at 7:00AM to 9:00PM and Sunday from 8:00AM to 8:00PM with 30 minutes frequency.
Route 35-ROUTE DISCONTINUED
Alternate service available on Routes 34 and 47.
Alternate service available weekday, Saturday, and Sunday on Route 34 operating similar routing from Wheaton Station to Medical Center Station. Passenger continuing to Montgomery Mall Transit Center from Medical Center Station must transfer to Metrobus J1, J2, or J3.
Passengers traveling on Fernwood and Greentree Roads can use revised Route 47 serving Rockville Station, Montgomery Mall, and Bethesda Station. Transfer at Montgomery Mall Transit Center or Bethesda Station to travel north or south on these roads.
Bus Stops Discontinued The following Ride On bus stops will be eliminated.
East on Democracy Blvd
At Swansong Way
At Fernwood Road
West on Democracy Blvd
At Fernwood Road
At Montgomery Mall entrance
Passengers may board buses on Westlake Drive or Fernwood Road.
Route 47-REVISED ROUTE New Sunday Service Revised routing to operate between Rockville Station and Bethesda Station with additional weekday trips. This route will operate along the same routing from Rockville Station to Montgomery Mall Transit Center.
New routing will serve Rock Spring Dr., Rockledge Dr., Fernwood Rd., Greentree Rd., Old Georgetown Rd., and Bethesda Station.
Sunday service from 8:00AM to 7:00PM. Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
****Other Route Changes****
Route 5 Improved trips diverting into Leafy House on weekdays, Saturday, and Sunday.
Route 6-REVISED ROUTE Extended routing starting from Wheaton Station serving Parkside, Grosvenor Lane, and Montgomery Mall Transit Center.
Schedule adjustments from Grosvenor Station and Montgomery Mall Transit Center. Peak hour service to Wheaton Station only. Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
Route 8 Added Saturday 10:57AM trip from Wheaton Station.
Route 12 12:00AM trip from Takoma Station serves Piney Branch Elementary School upon request. Route 14 Added one midday weekday trip from University Blvd. and Franklin Avenue to Takoma Station.
Route 19 Added one midday trip from Silver Spring Station to Dennis Avenue and University Blvd.
Route 25-REVISED ROUTE
To eliminate difficult turnarounds on Sligo Creek Pkwy. and Maple Avenue this route is extended to operate on Houston Avenue, Flower Avenue, and Washington Adventist Hospital with direct service to Takoma Station.
Improved service to Washington Adventist Hospital on weekdays, Saturday and Sundays. Check your schedule for new maps and trip times.
Route 41 Schedule adjustments on Saturday with additional trips.
Route 45 Added 7:55AM trip from Rockville Station to Twinbrook Station.
Route 49 Saturday schedule adjustments starting from Rockville Station to Glenmont Station.
Route 61 Schedule adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Route 62 Sunday schedule adjustments starting from Shady Grove Station to Germantown.
Route 74 Schedule adjustments starting from Germantown Station to Shady Grove Station.
Route 96 Schedule adjustments to AM and PM peak hours.
---
I thought that the 96 was supposed to replace the 47 part that ran to
Grovesnor, during the midday, but I still see 47s going to Grovesnor during the midday.
The 6 replaces the 47 between Montgomery Mall and Parkside, the 96 merely has more trips to replace the 6 trips no longer operating on Tuckerman Lane. Also, make sure you are reading the right schedules on Ride-On's website! I will be quite interested in seeing what is running since I will be near that area the first weekday this is all in place.
Okay, since we are talking about bus changes, why not bus route in depots. Here's what I'm thinking:
Q17 - Casey Stengel
Q44 - Jamaica
I know what you are thinking, CS has 245 buses and JAM has 198-205 buses but geographically the Q44 is better in Jamaica. Yes, I also know that the Q44 was split between the two so let's not go there either.
For years, CS and QV were trying to swap the Q27 and Q31. I disagree with that. If you want a real swap, then trying switching the Q27 for the Q46! But I just can not see a QV bus in Flushing, can you? I know, the X32 but that does not count!
Q83 should be with Jamaica while QV should consider the Q3 (maybe) or Q77. Or maybe just give the Q83 to Jamaica altogether. Maybe split the route.
These are just some of the ideas that are in my head. I know years ago that before QV opened most of these routes were in Jamaica Depot. This was just my ideas!
That's an interesting thought on the Q17 and Q44. How many buses are used on each of those routes at peak times?
I'm not an expert on bus allocations, but it seems to me that QV would have to take another route in addition to the Q27 if it were to give the Q46 to CS, or else QV would have to move some buses to CS. The Q46 has to use way more buses than the Q27 does. (Or does CS have enough surplus equipment to handle that swap?)
I was going to say that the Q46 doesn't go anywhere near CS, but then I realized that it doesn't exactly run right past QV's front door, either! By the way, the Q46 would seem to be a good place for artics.
The route I feel should be moved is the Q76, from CS to JAM.
how about this move instead: move the Q42 and Q77 from Jamaica to Jamaica Bus Lines. This would save JA space, wouldnt it?
5196-Q32
So, you are saying that the JBL has Q42, Q77, Q110, Q111, Q112 and Q113? With the roster that they have:
500's and 3830-3865?
im saying they could-at least with the Q42-i mean, how many buses do they need for that route-like 2 or 3 tops.
The Q42 mainly has two bus on the route but probably during the midday it could have just one.
The Q42 always has a minimum of 2 buses running on the line at any given time. If it had only one and it broke down, where would the service be? Anyhow, during the rush hour, I believe there may be around 6 buses running on the line. There is constant public outcry to restore the weekend service. Why two or three buses can't run on the line during the weekend is beyond me.
BIG AL
Al,
Its because the TA is so stuborn and refuses to admit they make mistakes.
The Q-42 passengers have to yell at their represenatives in the City Council and the State Legislator and have them do something
about it.
Also they should protest with the Mayor and the Governor
Thank You
there's people that really need the Q42 on the weekends? i didnt know that.i wonder if those who live on 14av on the weekends wish that the Q20B ran weekends as well?
I doubt there is much demand for the 20B on weekends. take a ride through the neighborhood north of 14th avenue from the bridge west - i don't think those folks are very dependent on it.
Sending the Q17 over to C.S. has been on the tables ever since I was a B/O at Jamaica depot, mainly to free up space in the depot so the other lines could increase their runs. I don't know where the matter stands now since I don't work out of that gararge anymore. Q5Merrick may know better. The Q44 will never come to Jamaica depot mainly because there is not enough space to handle the large amount of buses needed for that line.
Why do you feel the Q3 or Q77 should go to Q.V.? Neither one of the terminus' on both of those lines is anywhere near Q.V. The Q83 terminus at Springfield Blvd and Jamaica ave. is only a couple of blocks from QV depot which is why that line runs from QV and not Jamaica.
You were wrong about a possible Q31 and Q27 swap. The real deal was for the Q31 to come over to Jamaica depot. In fact, the deal was already made and new sign code charts with the Q31 listed with the other Jamaica routes were installed on some of the buses. Some of them are still in place so if you ride Jamaica depot buses, check the codes and you will see a few of the buses have them. I don't know what happened but the deal fell through at the last minute and the Q31 stayed right where it is. If the Q31 had made it to Jamaica, there was talk that the Q4 might be heading to QV since 234th st and Linden Blvd is just a hop, skip and a jump from QV. Again that never happened. I don't feel there will be much if anything in the way of depot route shifts since Queens division has no system pick for it's bus operators. Bus operators pick into a depot mainly to drive the routes that depot covers. B/O can never leave the depot once they arrive where they want to be. Once routes start shifting around, and the operators no longer can drive them, that starts a problem with the union. Brooklyn has system picks so moving lines around is no problem at all. B/O's can simply pick into the new garage that handles the line they like to drive.
BIG AL
Q31 for the Q4? Interesting! Thanks BIG AL!
How about these changes
1-Q-27 split between Casey Stengel and Queens Village
2-Q-31 goes to Casey Stengel
Thank You
Q31 looks like a CS route with the QV Orions on the Q31 anyway. LOL! But BIG AL mentioned that the Q31 was suppose to swap with the Q4 (QV-JAM) but that is no more according to BIG AL.
Firstly Jamaica Depot wants absolutely NO PART of the Q4420. I'm talking from the operators all the way up to the General Superintendent. You can forget about that happening again. Jamaica Depot is well over capacity right now. They are now parking buses on Merrick Blvd. Any route swap would have to result in a significant decrease in required buses for Jamaica. I must say, however, that there is no plan on the books to swap any routes in Queens.
I was so surprised when the pullout person assigned that I asked her to repeat herself. Once I got on the road with it I didn't take long to adjust to looking at a blue rear instead of a white one. The attention that bus creates is pretty amazing. Some of it is negative but mostly positive. Some of my passengers didn't realize the bus aproaching until I was almost in their face. Passengers that usually don't speak to me had to say something about the "pack of lifesavers" I was driving. I have to say that this was one of the few days I didn't mind driving a Volvo Articulated bus.
Troy
Fairview Garage
What do those Volvos sound like?
A loud school bus!
Tony M.
Wow, thanks!
I'm not sure everyone on the Board knows what makes this bus look different. Perhaps a brief description or a link to a picture (if one exists in TransiTalk or elsewhere on the web) would be in order. It's one of those "either you love it or you hate it" things!
Trevor has one, look on TransiTalk...www.transitalk.org. I also have one, if you want to see mine, e-mail me at carlwal@hotmail.com.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Volvo? Uh-oh!"
That's funny. You plug Trevor's website and plug your website as well. Lol! Anyways, the bus looks weird with those colors.
Hey, why not? I know I have pics, and I know damn well Trevor does, too.
LOL, I see nothing funny about that...LOL, Ray, u ccrack me up...
Cleanairbus
This is probably the best of TransiTALK's many pics of 9256: 9256 - PABT west ramp to Lincoln Tunnel
I SAW YOU, Were you doing a 156 or deadheading down Sylvan Avenue yesterday around 6:45p yesterday because I passed the bus on Sylvan Avenue while I was doing my 6:20 9T trip from the PABT.
If it was you, I was driving MCI 9B #5284.
Trevor
No that wasn't me I only work am hours this pick.
Troy
I remember being down in Alexandria, Va that the roster was something like this:
Orion 01.505 (35 Ft)
7700-7767 or something like that
Orion 05.501 (40 Ft)
7800-7867 or again something like that.
That's all I saw on the 101, 102, 103 up and down this street that leads you to the Metro Station in that area. It's north of Richmond Pkwy if that helps.
Now, I know the roster now has:
NovaBus RTS-06 7800's
Please correct me if I'm wrong which I'm probably am!
They also have some 30ft and 40ft Orion V's.
Wayne
I thought the RTS's were from TMC, they were to be the last built before the MBTA 0001-0138 order. I read this in old Bus World, I think I still have it, I'll look it up! (I know-picky picky! lol)
They are, I have that same Bus World.
Here is a brief run down of the Fairfax Connector roster:
7700-7761 Orion 1.501? 35' with a DD 6V92 engine
7762-7799 Orion 5.501 1998 and 2001 with a DD50 engine 7762-7781 were
delivered in 1998 and 7782-7799 were delivered in 2001.
7800-7809 Orion 1.501 30' with a DD 6V92 engine
7810-7855 TMC RTS 40' with a DD50 engine
7856-7889 Orion 5.501 1999 and 2001 with a DD50 engine 7856-7869 were
delivered in 1999 and 7870-7889 were delivered in 2001
7900or01-7902 TMC Citycruiser 30' with DD6V71 engine. I think these
were former Cue buses ( the first ones they had)
7903-7917 Orion V 5.501 30' with a DD50 engine these were delivered at
seperate times with the first batch delivered in 1998 and
the second batch delivered in either 1999 or 2000
Ah, thanks W.E.S. for that roster!
While we're on the subject... What engine does Ride-On's 30' Gilligs have???
Wayne
I think an L10. They might have had originally have had a DD6V92 engine, because I remember riding one about 8 years ago and it sounded
like the ones WMATA had. The might have had their engines replaced.
Usually - I'm able to determine the engine when I hear them, but in the 5 years I've lived in the Dc area I've ridden those lower 5300 series Gilligs (as well as everything else) and I just cannot figure out what engine they're using. I wanted to say Cummins as well, because they sound similar to Ride-On's '99 Gilligs and U of MD's new Gilligs.
Wayne
Another fact about Fairfax Connector buses, is that they have Detroit Diesel engines and not another kind of engine in them. DASH right now has all Cummins engines, they got rid of their last DD engine buses with the arrival of their last batch of Orion Vs.
What's DASH's Bus roster? I know they have Gilligs but Orions?
Here is Dash's current roster:
20-33: Orion 1.501 with a Cummins L10 engine. These are 35'
34-41: Gillig Phantom with I think a Cummins L10 engine. They are
35' and recently have had their rolling destination signs
replaced with Twin Vision? orange destination signs
42-58: Gillig Phanton with Cummins M11 engines. These are 35' and
were delivered in two batches of 8 each.
59-68: Orion 5.501 with Cummins M11 engines. These are 35' and were
supposed to have stop announcement system but they don't have
it working as of yet
Retired DASH buses
1-17: Orion 1.501 with a DD6V92, 30'. These had their rolling side
destination signs over the door. One of these buses were used
in a advertisement to catch the killer of an Alexandria boy
which they later caught and now he is awaiting trial. Also
someone in PG bought one of these buses because from time to
time I see it running past my house still in its DASH colors.
I need to find that number
18-19: Orion 1.501 with a DD6V92, 35'
Wow, so I guess dash does not use 40 ft buses, huh?
I think the reason they haven't used 40' foot buses is that all of DASH routes at one time or another go down narrow streets and a 40' bus wouldn't do. Also I believe all of DASH's buses are 96' wide.
I don't know of any Orion V buses that are 102" wide, unless this was a special order for Alexandria; I recall that the Gilligs and Orion Is are 96" wide.
Did you mean that all Orion Vs are 102' wide or not? But I am not 100% sure these are 96' wide. You would think I would know since I see these buses practically every day at where I work and traveling in Alexandria.
Wow, so I guess dash does not use 40 ft buses, huh? I would ask you for the WMATA roster but that's the only one that I know. Now, I'm searching for the retiring buses in the WMATA fleet. I know those wonderful Flxibles are first. Thanks again for that roster.
I know most of WMATA's fleet except all of the GM new looks that were transferred from the privates to WMATA. Creighton Rabs have the private rosters on his website but not sure which number of those were translated into which WMATA new look numbers except for one of the new look groups.
Oh no, I was simply talking about WMATA bus in the fleet now that might be scrapped or something. The current fleet, not the old fleet.
Buses inherited from Alexandria, Barcroft & Washington Transit Company were re-numbered into the 1000s
Buses inherited from Washington, Virginia & Maryland Transit Company were re-numbered into the 2000s
Buses inherited from Washington, Marlboro & Annapolis Transit Company were re-numbered into the 3000s
Buses inherited from DC Transit Company retained their 6000-series numbers
Thanks I wasn't sure what when where.
I would guess that the first batch of Metro Bs built in 1986-1987 (8700-8975) would be among the first Flxibles to be scrapped, if some haven't been already (these are the Flxs with the Vultron TransDot flip-dot destination signs).
Thanks for your answer!
Wait a minute..I thought Fairfax had a few Flx Metro Bs, or was I thining of someone else in NoVa? I do know they were 1989 units so they may be gone by now. Can you confirm this info?
-F.
Unfortunately no. The only other local bus agency with any Flxibles is the University of Maryland, who runs both 30' and 40' coaches. Baltimore used to be Flxible city until Flxible stopped production.
Oops! Just remembered that Ride-On purchased four Flxibles from Baltimore MTA. They used to be LNG, but was repowered to a regular DD50 engine. I have ridden them and they are cool.
I agree! There are my favorites so far!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D #1975
Wow...how cool! Metro "D"s, I presume? And how come Baltimore got rid of them so early?
These buses were fueled with LNG as part of an experiment, but it didn't work out, so they sold the four buses to Ride-On, who then had
Bladnesburg convert them to regular diesel engines. They are 1993 Flxible Metro D.
Thanks for the info; yeah, those CNGs really screwed up things for Flxible. And according to various sources, it wasn't even their fault...it was the damned tank supplier!
-F.
It would have been nice to see Baltimore try and rebuild them themselves into diesel engines and continue to run them. Oh well, what was Baltimore's loss is Ride-On's and my gain, cause I get to ride them, when I see one.
Exactly. I'll drink to that. All of that. Bartender...another Pepsi Blue...shaken, not stirred! :)
-F.
Inspired by the Fairfax Connector chatter in this thread, I headed out to West Falls Church this AM and got TMC RTS 7813 on the 950. Does anyone know what model year the FFC RTS are? They seem to be of a similar vintage to RIPTA's '92s . . . are they 1994s maybe?
Anyway, at Reston Town Center I got off, wandered around a bit, then caught RTS 7834 on the 505 back to West Falls Church, seeing quite a few of the new 35' Orion Vs as I boarded (7920, 7921, 7923, 7924). An interesting trip! Been a while since I was out that way.
Coming home, I saw WMATA Flxi Metro-B 9452 at Friendship Hts with one of the new Sportworks bike racks, the first Flxi I've personally seen so equipped. Looks sharp!
C
Alright! That answers my earlier question! I like a Flx with a nice rack...LOL!
-F.
Hehe, not so fast! :) Re-read that last post; the Flxible I was referring to was a WMATA (Metrobus) unit -- not a Fairfax Connector. Sorry I can't answer your question . . . I've never seen an FFC Flxi, but then I live on the other side of the Potomac.
Coming home, I saw WMATA Flxi Metro-B 9452 at Friendship Hts with one of the new Sportworks bike racks, the first Flxi I've personally seen so equipped. Looks sharp!
C
Whoops, sorry, I misinterpreted your reference to a "prior question" . . . I thought you meant your question about whether Fairfax has Flxibles, then went back and found your post asking whether WMATA's Flxibles would be retrofitted with bike racks. And yes, they will be, as you've already found out! (The entire fleet is slated to get them by mid-next year.)
C
I think they either came in 1993 or 1994. I have to look at the Bus World they were in to find the answer. These buses were purchased when Fairfax Connector took over the then Metro 5 routes (the old 5 of course). They were doing a demonstration of how to use the bike racks on Fox Morning News, using 2396 as the demonstrator. These bike racks are manual, not the mechanical racks Ride-On.
These were 1994 RTSs. I remember when I first rode these buses, I thought they were Cummins, because I had never heard a DD50 engine before. These came a half a year before WMATA's last Flxibles were delivered.
Great, thanks for looking that up. You're right that the engine has a very distinct note for this region.
C
PRTC still has a few RTS's running around too. They look pretty old, but are still holding their own. They used to have Classics, but I haven't seen them lately, just the MCI's and the Orion V's.
Just to let you know, spotted a new 35' Fairfax Connector near the Landmark Mall today. Looks the same as the 2001 series in every respect except for length. The bus number was 7892.
Really? So that means that the Orion V are still being made!
Apparently so. They also bought about 10, 30' with numbers 7918-7927. Most of these were running on the RIBS routes 1-4.
Earlier....MUCH earlier (like last year) I asked which Gilligs were scrapped. MTA LI Bus now has buses #500-519 (35 Ft) for storage and/or shuttle service. Now, I have not seen a single Orion 05.501 buses #579-599 in Jamaica nor in areas of Nassau that I'm in like along the Sunrise Hwy from end-to-end. My friends along the hwy between Massapequa and Freeport have seen CNGs and the 600's. I've seen some 600's (#600-655) but my question is this: where are those other buses? With more Orion 05.501 CNGs coming in (#360-391, I saw #373 on the N24 at the Jamaica Bus Terminal), I would assume that these buses are being scrapped or dare I say it....SOLD! "Qtraindash7" can you shed some light on this since you live in Nassau County.
I can answer that. Buses 579-599 have been scrapped. M.S.B.A. has a facility called Zahn's where recently scrapped buses are held for a time, until they are bought by scrap dealers. From what I understand, a few of the 600 series diesels have already been taken out of service as well.
Do you know the numbers? Who and/or what is Zahn and where is the yard? Thanks again!
Yes, really a shame. #579, #581, and #587 had been repowered with Cummins diesel engines. They extended the rear of the bus about 4 inches to accommodate the larger size engines. I know it's out east, but it's been years since I was over there. I will find out for you. From what I understand, there are now cameras all around the yard.
Actually those had Series 50 engines, hence the rear seat hump.
The diesel Orion V's ran well but leaked like crazy when ever it rained.
Back when they were all at RVC they were in better shape, but as the abuse of the busier Mitchell Field depot took place, the roofs developed leaks. I guess that's Orion's shoddy construction, some of the oldest CNG's also leak abit in the rain.
That's surprising. They didn't sound anything like the ones in the RTS's. Have you been at M.S.B.A. long? Do you remember the Blitz fishbowls? My all-time favorite was 5549. I'm sorry to see the diesel Orions go, but I felt far worse when M.S.B.A. scrapped the GM's. Those buses were sabotaged from the getgo. M.S.B.A. DELIBERATELY disconnected the Sutrak A/C so driver's wouldn't want them. The bastards!
So those buses are still in service with Cummins engines? What kind of engine? Are they the M-11s or the ISB engines?
Zahn's is like a holding pen for all the recently-scrapped M.S.B.A. buses. They sit there for a time until a scrap dealer comes along and buys them. Last time I was there, they still had '78 Flxibles (and that's going back awhile).
Well I believe the 500s diesel Orions are not in service anymore or already have been scrapped, I haven't seen any since the 360+ order came in.
They may be in storage, but are not used for regular service. Also the 600s will probably be gone by next year too. They may be sold.
The new order goes up to 394....saw that one on Northern Boulevard last week.
twice i rode on a 600 CNG bus,one on the N31 and the other on the N32 so most likely you'll see them on one of those two routes,i havnt seen them on any other route yet.
N32 657
I have a friend of mine who owns a bus company, but is not the model citizen when it comes to doing important paperwork in a timely fashion. Apparently, Canadian authorities are holding one of his buses on "illegal transport". It sounded pretty weird to me until I ran the company through the online safety system and found that they do not have an insurance company on file. He assured me he did and gave me the name of the company. I haven't checked to see if the policy exists, but I did check to see if the company existed (it does).
I believe that the Canadian authorities ran him through the same system I did and found the same thing. No insurance on file leads to an automatic revocation if you don't send in your paperwork. I believe that they saw a revoked license and held the bus.
Granted, I am not a transportation lawyer nor am I Joe Hardy. Would I be correct to assume what I'm assuming?
The last time I saw 4312 I saw it on the Transitalk website a victim of an engine fire. Has this bus returned to service yet, or is it coming back.
Today, I saw on 3 seperate occasions Artics operating on the BX36 (in service). Being that this is KB which this route runs out of, What gives? Did they suddenly have extras? Will this route become artic domain in the future or was this a one day thing? I'll be going back to that route tomorrow to see if i can get a closer look and post back if I see anything.
I was probalby a deal where the dispacter told the B/O,to take this.Maybe oit was very crowed,and the B/o requested it
I remember it was mostly artics on the Bx36, I rode a few I think a year or two ago...I think they took them off because of certain turns on the route that were innegotiable or very difficult...or something like that, I don't remember...
Cleanairbus
I was reading the replies to the Neoplan Artics and someone mentioned that it would be a pain to test and create a CNG/alt. fuel artic. How is this so?
Think about it. You'll realize why in about 5 seconds.
Neoplan offers their AN460 artic as both CNG and LNG, in addition to diesel. The Houston Neoplan suburban artics are all LNG. New Flyer previously offered the C60HF, the CNG version of the D60HF that NYCT uses.
How did they manage to pull that off?
What do you mean, "how did they manage to pull that off" - I have no idea what your previous cryptic message about realizing in 5 seconds meant, but making a bus natural gas instead of diesel is not some critical issue. The tanks don't have to be on the roof, you know. Do NJT's CNG-powered MCIs look any different other than the paint job? Nope - the extra tanks are in the luggage compartment. One of the last Flxible Metro catalogs showed a complete underfloor CNG installation.
Look it how the cost of maintaining a 40 foot CNG has skyrocketed (compared to a clean diesel). Can you imagine how much a CNG artic would be to maintain? Now multiply that by the number of buses ordered. Then figure the cost of the fueling station, extra training, etc. No Thanks!!
But then some of us have unlimited budgets.
A few observations for today; I don't usually post my daily sightings but I rode more buses than usual because I took advantage of the Code Red free rides to run an errand in Rockville in the morning before going to work. I didn't bother to get unit numbers for all so forgive my ??s.
Took E6 Orion II 37?? to Friendship Heights in the AM; Metrorail to Grosvenor and caught a Ride-On Orion I on the 8:35am northbound 46. Got off a few minutes later, ran my errand, and just barely caught the southbound R-O 46, a 40' blue Orion V, at 9:05. Didn't want to miss this bus or I'd be late for work. Spotted NABI 5240 n/b on Rockville Pike a few minutes later at White Flint turning onto Marinelli Rd. (going back to garage, I suspect); add this to the list of NABIs with the "metroopensdoors.com" appellation on the rear. Got back on the train at Grosvenor; rode downtown to work. Uneventful day; coming home at around 6:15 I noticed Metro-B 8721 (old paint scheme) sporting one of those "metroopensdoors.com"/phone number bumper stickers on its left flank immediately behind the front wheel. Metro's poor fleet is getting uglier every day! Also, Orion II 3708, which I took on the E6 heading back home, had been egged on the drivers' side.
C
There are no 40 foot Orion Vs up at Gaithersburg unless there is a shortage of some sort. Too bad you didn't get the number. You sure it was a 40 footer? Did it have the yellow poles?
It did have the yellow poles. Does that mean it was a 35'? I don't know Ride-On's fleet very well. Thinking back, it may well have been a 35' -- I boarded near Federal Plaza and really only saw the unit's front as it approached on the Pike. I guess the 5' difference on the interior didn't register with me one way or the other -- pretty non-observant of me!
C
How about an orange destination sign? No 40 footers have the Orange Twinvision LED so that would be the way to tell. The yellow pole thing doesn't work anymore, I should have remembered that.
It did have an orange LED, presumably Twinvision, so it must have been a 35'. Thanks for calling me on that!
C
With the surrounding systems like MTA, SEPTA, and DART putting low floor buses in service, will NJ Transit ever join the crowd and put Low Floors in service, or will they hold out for the High Floor buses?
probaly not.low floors aint njt material.
You will most likely never see a low floor bus operating for NJ Transit. NJT did try out the Orion VI diesel-electric hybrids, however, were less than thrilled with the low floor concept in general, and sold those buses to NYC Transit.
I think the time will come when the only option the will have for service work will be lo floor.
The American style of bus with the hi floor will become a thing of the past, within the next 5 years I think what is on offer will force them into low floor.
Over here, Europe and Hong Kong everything new is Lo floor-small--midi- articulated and Double decker are built to this style.
Actually, low-floor buses go way back to the 1930s or 40s, I am led to understand. Not sure who it was...Brill, Mack, Marmon-Herrington, or one of the other obscure ones. Can anyone back me up here?
-F.
Where is a good place to photograph and ride the WMATA MAN Artics? Are they out in rush hour only?
Thanks
In my opinion one of the best places for spotting WMATA buses is the Silver Spring Metro station. I think it's also the best place for spotting the MAN artics. The MAN artics are assigned to Montgomery and Bladensburg. They are pretty much out during rush hour, however twice recently I've seen a MAN artic on the X2 route late in the evening.
Wayne
During Redskin games you could go to the Landover, Cheverly and Addison Road stations to catch a pic of these things in Redskin shuttle bus duty. Also if you want to see MANNs waiting for a new way of life or to put it bluntly, waiting to go to the shredder, go to the Landover storage lot at the corner of Route 50 and Route 410 and you'll see those as well as some CNGs as well as two NABIs that just recently showed up there. Also there, you will see the back end of the that NABI that was hit by a train about two years ago.
5119 is currently on the X2, use to be in Montgomery. Best to go during rush hour, as during rush mostly NABIs and Flxibles are run with at least one MANN, either 5107 and or 5123.
This should sound interesting to you. The last two weeks I was interning in Geneva, Switzerland. As such, I got some good opportunities to ride in the city's transit system. Here's what I found:
The transit system's (TPG) artic buses are built by two makers - Mercedes Benz and Volvo, O405G(N) and 7000 respectivly. Most buses are low-floors, can take up to 167 pax in a pinch, and have four (count 'em, 4!) doorways to make loading and unloading faster. It pays off in that on-time performance is superb. Plus, the O405GNs and 7000s have automated PA systems that announce each stop before their being reached. (Note: this is also the case with the 40 fters, most of which are made by Renault)
There are three light rail lines. Two link both sides of the city with terminals @ the main train station (known locally as "Cornavin") and one stays on one side of the city. That's the #12 (that's right MaBSTOA riders and B/Os); the other two are the #13 and #16. The #13 and #16 each have one set of three articulated cars for each run, while the #12 uses a set of three mated to a set of two. (Note: there is currently a construction project underway to extend the #13 from the train station west to the outskirts of the city. Judging from the progress it should be done within two years time.)
There are many trackless tram lines in town, most if not all of which link both sides of the city. Many classes of trams, old, recent, and very new, work these lines. I only got a chance to ride one of them, the #3, in which I got a not-so-old tram. All of them are quiet and accelerate decently. During nights before midnight, however, it is not uncommon to find either a Benz or Volvo artic working some tram runs.
Finally, fare collection. There isn't any per se, but an honor system. Each stop has a ticket booth where one can get an hour pass (two zones only) or day pass (all city zones). For a weekly pass covering all city and some suburban zones, one has to get them from agents. Keep in mind that there are some buses that run well into France proper (given that Geneva sits on the border with France), and special passes must be brought separatly from the city passes. Keep the pass close at hand, b/c even though the B/O will not ask for them (since the buses were built in such a way that one can actually get on all the way at the back), there may be guards that get on at random to check. Penalty for failure to produce the pass: 60 Swiss Francs (approx. $55).
The following are a list of Manhattan Bus Route changes that i would make.
1-Redesignate the M-14 14th Street Crosstown Avenue A branch the M-12 and operate this route only between W. 18th Street and Grand St/FDR Drive at all times.
The M-14 will remain the designation of the 14th Street/Avenue D branch which will operate between W. 18th St(all times) or Abingdon Square (daily except midnight hours) and Delancey Street/FDR Drive
2-Extend the M-18 from 5th Ave/110th Street to E.106th St/FDR Drive via 5th Ave,E. 106th St and stand at FDR Dr. Return via FDR Dr Service Road,E.105th St,1st Ave,E.106th St,Madison Ave,E.110th St and current route.
3-Extend the M-11 from Abingdon Square to Spring/Washington Streets via Washington St,Spring St and stand. Return via Spring,Hudson and current route at Abingdon Sq. New transfers to the M-8 and M-21 routes
3-Extend the M-21 from Spring/Washington Sts to Battery Park City via West Street and reroute southbound/westbound buses via 34th St instead of 29th Street. Improved transfer points on both ends
4-Extend the B-39 from Allen/Delancey Sts to Bowery/Delancey so passengers can transfer to/from the M-103
5-Change permantely the current M-9 routing via Water Street. When Vesey Street reopens then extend the B-51 from City Hall to Battery Park City via the old M-9 routing
Just my opinion
Any comments
Thank You
The M12 already exists but have not used it yet. Why? Only the MTA knows. Also, why extend the M18 to FDR Drive? Are you trying to go back in time here to the retro days of the old M18? The M11, I'm not sure, the M21 is a must and the B51 I'm scratching my head. Why send it down to the WTC Site Area? That means more buses on that route which I think only runs about 2 buses (okay 3 but it seems like 2 with the wait). Nice ideas though!
Where is the M-12?
Thank You
The destination signs are on FDNY's webpage! It clearly has the M12 from ABD Square to Av A. Also, Shawn's bus page has it too.
http://www.geocities.com/NYCBusman2000destsigns.html
If that is not it then, I'll have to find the address. In fact, look in the BT archives, somebody posted that address on here before.
3-Extend the M-11 from Abingdon Square to Spring/Washington Streets via Washington St,Spring St and stand. Return via Spring,Hudson and current route at Abingdon Sq. New transfers to the M-8 and M-21 routes
The scenery at the new location is less entertaining. Unless Disney has taken over this area as well?
Saw Bus 302 this morning entering the VZ Bridge - it appears to be an ex-NJT 6000series MCI9 with the smaller electronic destination sign.
Anyone know what number it was?
The first tale has to do with MCI 1899.
Yesterday, my father went to the city and got a free ride. The farebox malfunctioned and would not take Metrocards.
Today, DejaVu. I get 1899 on the X1 - and the farebox is still not taking Metrocards - so free ride again.
Then we get to Clove Road and Hylan Blvd - there's a motorized W/C waiting to board bus 2105 (both 1899 and 2105 have the doors on hinges). The driver couldn't for the life of him get the door open - he even had help from my driver. The supervisor ordered us all off bus 1899 and on to bus 2105. I didn't board 2105, but waited for next one being 2133. The driver of 1899 had trouble opening the door on 1899, but finally got it open - and I guess that W/C passenger was going to have her own private bus ride. What ever happened to ParaTransit?????
Now I assume the driver wrote up the farebox yesterday - why would Yukon not swap the box? It doesn't take that long I understand.
Second Tale involves 2705.
Yesterday, while going back to SI, this bus was sitting on the shoulder of the Gowanus right before the Hamilton Avenue exit. It appeared to have some sort of yellow brownish liquid on the ground under the rear of the bus. All the passengers had to board other buses on the Gowanus.
Today, I see 2705 on the VZ Bridge on an X22. They got this bus fixed quickly.
My question - they can fix 2705 overnight, but can't replace a farebox???? Also, i do not know what happened with that woman on the W/C that got on 1899 - would she be the only one on that bus?? I never saw 1899 pass by me while I was on Church and Park Place - and I was looking for like at least a half hour.
Could be the farebox was checked out, and was fine that evening, but failed again the next day. Such is known to happen. Had the fan belt on my wife's car replaced, and the replacement broke two hours later. Pep Boys refunded me the cost of the original replacement for the inconveinence, in addition to paying the tow charges AND fixing the car again. I don't use Pep Boys anymore, though. Discovered their brakes aren't as good as what Midas puts in for less, the hard way.
-Hank
A s/b AT bus from Montreal to NYC crashed early this AM injuring 3 including the driver. The bus ran into the back of a tractor-trailer. Police don't know if the bus was speeding, the truck going too slow or a combo of the two.
From the picture at www.wnbc.com the bus appeared to be either an MCI-12 or a MCI 102 D series.
I'm sure it will be on all the news shows tonight.
I saw video of the bus accident on the Noon news here in Massachusetts. They reported the bus driver to be in serious condition. The bus was laying drivers' side down on the highway, the rear end looked pretty well smashed. The graphics on the screen indicated the accident took place in Cornwall, NY, and the bus was marked "Pine Hill Trailways", which is also part of Adorondack Trailways, I believe.
Mark
I thought only Greyhound (and Vermont) had MC-12's.
Wayne
Out of the house again, pretty much for the rest of the month. As usual, OTP will not be updated and my access to e-mail will be limited.
For those of you interested, there are many new pictures on my website, www.orenstransitpage.com.
Talk to you all upon my return, I plan on having quite a bit to share.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Haven't heard too much from you since the strike has ended. How goes it. Aren't the drivers and mechanics happy to be back to work. Even if they got a raw deal from RogerT., it's still better working than not working. I imagine that ridership has fallen, particularly on the express routes. But all the "big shots" there will fix it, heh? Regards.
Tonight, there was a massive backup in the Brooklyn Bound Battery Tunnel. The reason was that bus 1964 had a blowout flat on the front driver side tire. The right lane was closed, and the delays were a nightmare.
Also, after exiting the Tunnel, I saw an X6 that just broke down - I don't know if it had a flat too since it looked like it was leaning a little. I didn't get the #. The people were waiting on the side of the Gowanus waiting for another bus to pick them up.
What a night.
Why couldn't they do a lane reversal on the NYC bound side like they do in the morning with the Brooklyn bound side?
OK, today we have a 3rd consecutive code-red day... so after work today I decided to take advantage of some of those free bus rides. I rode Metro-D, #4044 on the J4. This route is a blast to ride. While at Silver Spring Metro station I saw #4014 which appeared to be deadheading back to the depot. The interesting part was that the foward door leaf was open and the rearward leaf was closed.
Also, yesterday I was driving along Briggs Chaney Road when I spotted Orion V, #4214. The bus did have passengers and was either operating on the Z8 or Z11. It look like Montgomery has gotten even more 1998 Orions. Some of you probably know that Montgomery has some of the 4300 series from Western Division. In fact I saw one (4371) on the Q2 today.
Another intersing thing. I rode Ride-On's 30ft Gillig #5315. It seems that this bus has been repowered and now sounds like Ride-On's '95, '95 Gilligs. However, I think it retained it's tranny as I think the later Ride-On buses have Vioth trannys.
Wayne
Actually, 4371 was from Bladnesburg.
We had a lot of trouble with the Allison 5-speeds in our 94 Gilligs and still do. As a result, last year's order came with Voith 4-speeds, which sound awesome and seem to hold up a lot better.
-F.
The mind of BLX has been resting due to the extreme heat. In the last 2 days, there have been 2 'pull aparts' on the new subway cars on the IRT. A 'pull apart' is when the the cars become uncoupled. The old redbirds are now being pressed back into service while this problem is looked into. Also, bus 8549 has been repowered with a new engine. Regarding Queens depot route moves, the easiest move to create space at Jamaica depot is to move the Q17 to Stengel. Alot of the peak service originates from Flushing anyway, and Stengel has room since they made parking where the old tennis bubbles used to be. There is not room for 1 more bus at Jamaica, especially with the MCI's taking up more space. Last, BLX has been feeling vibes from those sporting the Mabstoa nametag. New depots 100 Street and West Farms seem logical to open at the same time. When? BLX is getting transmissions which are vibrating around the sixth month of next year. What then? A 'soft' opening for both to make the transition easy. You know like the song Jackson Browne penned but made into a big hit by The Eagles, 'Take It Easy'. Say this about BLX, he is not speaking from another world. Also, original # was Q20 then Q44FS then back to Q20. Q30, then Q17A then back to Q30. Around and round BLX goes, where he stops only Gotham Bus Company knows. By the way, where is the caped crusader? John Astin played The Riddler on this mornings episode. Bring back Frank Gorshin.
Gee, thanks as always BLX! How about extending bus routes in Queens? What's your take on that?
BLX says this about extending bus routes. Budget concerns are in the groove as we speak. Save $ here, maybe use it to extend there. There are plenty of routes that could be curtailed and use of those funds to extend where needed. Demographics change, people move, builders build. Bus routes must go with the flow, not stand still. Since BLX is zoned into Queens, BLX feels that the Q79 on Saturday is not cost effective. This route goes nowhere, and it didn't carry back in the days when it was the Q12A. Q76 on Saturday - I don't know if the extension to serve the 20th Ave. shopping district works. No school on Saturday, no one on Q76, it's as simple as that. After all, someone from Jamaica would take the Q4420 serving the 20 Ave. shopping strip, as the headways are better. The Q76 going through Whitestone services an area whereby most people have wheels and probably use them to head east to shop at Roosevelt Field, Fortunoff's Center, etc. Q27 extending south would give those residents a one bus ride to downtown Floo-shing. Makes sense.
There was talk of sending the Q17 to Casey Stengel depot. See my other post. I don't know if the talks are still active but bringing the Q31 to Jamaica and sending the Q4 to QV was among the talks also.
John Astin played the Riddler only in the one 2 part episode of Batman, titled "Batman's Anniversary" if I remember correctly. Frank Gorshin did return, fighting Batman in the boxing ring with Batgirl in a final season episode.
BIG AL (transit worker and Batman buff)
I was driving w/b down Utah Ave this evening at about 7:40 when I spotted WMATA Orion II 3703 e/b on the M4 sporting what appeared to be a bike rack in front of its grille (!). I only got a brief glimpse (and did a double take!), but it appeared to be similar to the Sportworks units installed on MoCo Ride-On buses, only fabricated of shiny stainless steel instead of the black-painted steel R-O uses. Has anyone else seen this/these? This is, to my knowledge, a Metro first.
I'm a bit bemused, however, as to why WMATA would choose an Orion II as the pilot vehicle for this bit of hardware, since these buses run primarily on short neighborhood routes, and only in the city (since they were purchased by the DC gov't). Seems like a 40-footer fit for making the run to farflung suburban recreation areas might be more the ticket. Still, this is pretty cool, if I did indeed see what I thought I saw (as I said, I only caught a glance of it). It'll be nice to be able to take Bike-on-Bus to Bike-on-Rail!
C
Just checked out Metro's press release page for more info on these racks, and found the following. In sum, they're to be installed fleetwide at the cost of some $1.7m (including the cost of a promo campagin) by Q2 2003.
from http://www.wmata.com/about/MET_NEWS/200205/pr_bicycle.cfm
For Immediate Release:
May 16, 2002
Bikes to take a ride:
Bike racks to be installed on Metrobuses
Metrobuses will soon be carrying bicycles as a part of a new "Buscycle" program that the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority's (Metro's) Board approved today.
The Metro Board agreed to initiate and award a contract to purchase and install a bike rack on the front of each of the transit agency's more than 1,440 buses, with Buscycle complementing Metro's bike-on-rail program. Buscycle is also part of the continuing effort to reduce automobile emissions as well as expand the horizons of bicycle riders in the area.
The bike racks, which will be able to accommodate two bicycles each, carry a purchase and installation cost estimated at $1,000 apiece. Once installed, they will enable customers to combine, bike, bus, and rail trips. Equipping the Metrobus fleet with racks and a marketing campaign to promote it is expected to cost $1.65 million with each jurisdiction (Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia) covering the program's costs through Congestion, Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Funds. Increased use of bicycles reduces the amount of emissions in the air, which is a goal that CMAQ Funds cover.
Cost by jurisdiction is as follows: District of Columbia, $622,000; Maryland, $616,000, and Virginia, $407,000.
"This initiative is another example of why 2002 is The Year of the Bus," said Metro Board Chairman Christopher Zimmerman. "We're continuing to take a look at the services we provide to our bus customers and are always looking for ways to make their bus-riding experience more enjoyable. The addition of bicycle racks on our buses is another example of how we're accomplishing that objective.
"We hope that the addition of bicycle racks will open doors to places for area
residents to ride their bikes when in the past they may not have ventured to a particular area," Mr. Zimmerman said. "These bicycle racks are user-friendly, and I expect that once they are installed, we'll see bicycle enthusiasts hopping on board with their bicycles to expand their bicycle horizons."
Each bike rack will be affixed to the front of the buses and provide easy-to-load and easy-to-secure features for customers. Many transit systems already have had the same type of bike racks on their buses for several years including Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Denver, Seattle, and Montgomery County's Ride-On buses. These other transit agencies report that loading and unloading of bikes from the racks does not cause delays to the bus schedules.
The racks, which include a locking mechanism to prevent bikes from coming loose, require minimal maintenance and can even go through the bus wash. Special mirrors installed on the buses will allow bus operators to see the bike racks and customers loading bikes. All of the bike racks will be on a "use at your own risk" basis.
It is expected that the racks will be delivered and installed from August 2002 through January 2003 with "Buscycle" a fleet-wide feature by March 2003.
Very cool. Will the Flx Metros be retrofitted with racks as well?
Most likely. All of WMATA's buses will have them.
9493 had one, it was a 35' Flx
Awesome! That's good news for bikers!
-F.
I was on a rerouted M42 bus at 34th St and Sixth Ave today. A G.B.L Orion #721 pulls up next to us. I noticed the cushioned seats inside were blue and red in color. Also on the exterior by the roofline, the white paint seemed peeled away showing some blue color underneath. And to add to this, no back door!
Was this Orion a second hand bus repainted ?
Bill "Newkirk"
That was one of the ex-NY Bus Service Orions, since the Orions didn't do well over there, they sent those 5 to Green Lines.
A friend of mines works at New York Bus Service and he said that the drivers didn't care for them to tuff as for the mechanics. The drivers were saying the farebox is to low or the drivers seat is to low or something to that effect. the mechanics said that they were too difficult to work on. So they settled for MCI's
Also, I heard that passengers weren't too comfortable with the Orions, since they didn't tint them and were too small to their tastes...sheesh...
Cleanairbus
Also, I heard that passengers weren't too comfortable with the Orions either, since they didn't tint them and were too small to their tastes...sheesh...
Cleanairbus
They must have meant the seats. heh heh :)
I think that was a problem, too! Seats being too small...they are only low-back suburban-style, not the usual high-backs...
Cleanairbus
Yeah, well those drivers over there are spoiled. They get to drive the '81 GMC Fishbowls. I envy them....
[they sent those 5 to Green Lines]
There were 4 of them. Former NY Bus Service 1711-14 became Green Bus Lines 719-722. I believe they are 1999 models.
the bus orignally belonged to new york bus service. they were tested out the Orion V for awahile. i believe the nubers were #718-#722. Complaints came up and the buses were sent to Green line. Ive been on them on the QM15, nice ride. Hopefully, Green can get at least 4 or 5 more to help on the express.
Here's the true facts:
1. NYBS did not like them to begin with, the maintenance chief hated them.
2. NYBS clained that the customers hated them and would not ride on them and let the bus go by only to overload the next bus on the line.
3. The Company has a lot of clout with the right people in NYCDOT and elsewhere and surrendered the four Orion's to NYCDOT (who re-assigned them to another of the Queens privates. In exchange, NYBS received 5 MCI Classics, two or three 1988 models (53-seats) and two or three 1989 models (45-seats with W/C lifts).
I understand that these 5 MCI buses came from Triboro and Command. In order to get them in a condition accustomed to NYBS, each bus needed extensive work (in the area of $50,000 per bus), which NYCDOT approved. And except for the unit numbers, you would never know the difference between the former buses (bad condition) and the condition yhey are now in.
Thanks for the info. I should have known that there was more to the story then just mechanics and operators.
The MCI's that went to New York Bus Service came from Green Bus Lines and Triboro
The Green Bus numbers that were transferred were 717 and 718 which i believe were originally from Triboro and two of the following buses which were from Green either 701,702,703,704(sorry do not remember which ones)
New York Bus Service also received 10 MCI's from Command Bus which are NYBS numbers 1688 to 1697
For better information check Trevor Logan's Transitalk site and check the fleeet listing for better information check Command and Green Lines
Hope this helps
Thank You
Actually, buses 703-704, 717-718 came from GBL to NYBS. Check Transitalk.org at look up the GBL roster page for more information.
Sorry but none of those buses had Wheel Chair Lifts. NYBS has the original 10(1700-1709) they have always had and so does Liberty Lines.(3101-3110) The only 20 exsistance in the NYCDOT fleet. All other Classics are non-WCL equipped. Now NYBS did get 10 Classics from Command which are higher 16xx's and then later on they got some extra buses from Triboro and Green lines that are 1711-1715 or 1716. NYBS has some of the best maintainance in the DOT franchise system I have seen. Jamaica Buses and Queens Surface, along with Liberty Lines. Green Lines seems to be getting their act together but still has some way to go and Triboro, forget it! Triboro has seen better days!
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D#1975
Thanks for that info. Your description of the maintenance departments is right on target
I totally agree! Triboro Coach buses are the worst in the system. Main reason-Suburban Onions on their local runs. And most of their buses are parked in the street-away from the depot. Easy targets for graffiti vandals.
And what is it with Triboro Coach with Suburban Onions on their local runs? Don't they have enough RTS to cover the local routes?
Yesterday I saw 3017 Q19B and 3025 on the Q19.
Where are their RTS?
#2137 Q18
I wish my company could take a few lessons from the maintenance department for NYBS and Liberty Lines. One of our buses was sent back to the shop a second time cause they didn't fix the w/c lift the first time. Another bus has her tailpipe hanging down but that's not gonna get fixed unless it falls off. Call me a cynic. BTW, the buses are all cutaways.
During my travels in Suffolk County today I just happened to see a MCI MC-8 with a for sale sign on the windshield. I think this is the one that came before the MC-9. She still has the lettering of the previous carrier, Genesis. Never heard of them. She was in a used car lot but I didn't get to see which one. If I had the cash I would buy it, gut the whole thing, rebuild it into a MC9-B and start my own charter service.
What area of Suffolk were you in and on what road were you on when you saw the bus? If I am headed in that area, I could check it out and report back to the board.
Also have to meet someone tonite at 6 PM on Vet's Highway in Bohemia. I'll be passing Atlantic Diesel. I'll post if there is anything interesting in there.
From last I checked there, there were some Green Bus Line RTS buses and the latter were Suffolks Gilligs, and Orions. Some were on lifts and others were in the yard out back. Seen em but couldn't get close. I was driving my own bus.:)
I would love to have one of the ST Flx Metros when they retire those. I'm sure caine824 can feel me there. :)
-F.
Hey R-33#8878, what fleet number bus do you usually drive? I work near MacArthur. I always see 9912, 9916, 9918, 9942 to name a few.
Those numbers are from Inter-County. I drive the ADA vans. There is But the buses that are Suffolk Bus Corps, are:
Orions 9920-9940
Gilligs 8703,8730 and 8731
Gilligs 9640-9655
Flxibles 9321-9325 and 9333
Gilligs 9721-9725 and 9734
Glad I could help.
Dave
The lot in question is on Route 112 southbound about 400 feet from Horseblock Road. The bus is sitting next to a building so its kinda hard to get a good look from ur car or bus. Kinda makes me wonder how much they want for it. BTW, what kind of engine and tranny combo does the MC8 use anyway? Thanx.
I assume you mean 400 north of Horseblock Road otherwise it would be in the Lowe's Parking lot. Incidentally the next time you're on Rte 112, about 1 mile north of there on the N/B side is Thrift Auto Body that sometimes has Cooper Family buses in there for repainting.
Most of those had 8v71s and manual shift, IIRC. There may have been a few with Allison autos, but I am not sure. I was very little the last time I rode one. I don't think the 92 Series had developed by the time the last MC-8 was made, but there may be some retrofits out there.
-F.
I passed Atlantic Diesel last night at 6 PM. Had one LI Bus Orion, several Command Orion (CNG's) and one Command RTS CNG. Didn't stop to get #'s
There you go! Conduct Atlantic City trips for the old people. I'm quite sure they'd bite for the right price.:)
Not much happened today, but I saw a couple of interesting things happened. The first was seeing one lonely New Flyer in the Landover Storage lot, apparently the rest has gone to either Bladnesburg or has joined the majority of them back at Montgomery.
The second was the first sighting of a new Fairfax Connector Bus. 7892, was an Orion 35' bus, but if you just came into the area for the first time and saw these buses, you would think they all came at the same time. They look exactly like the ones that came last year, except that they are 35'. I was disappointed to see that these buses did not have the orange destination sign that Ride-On and WMATA are starting to use, they are using the exact same ones seen on the WMATA series 2100-2200s. I am not sure how many buses they are but if they are to replace the rest of the Orion Ones, then it is about 25-40.
I was woundering, what will the specs. be of those buses. What kind of HVAC system they will use? Thermo King or Sutrak? Will the tailights be vertical or horizontal? Will the engine compartment have the louvers or a flat surface with an ad frame? Will it again be the two door suburban and three door transit models?
On transitalk.org I went to the NJ Transit section to check out some bus pictures. I went to the 1995/96 model RTS section then I highlight bus #2626. The front bumper appears to have black paint or a black impact resistant bumper between the license plate area. Has that bus been involved in an accident? It would be pretty cool to see some of those RTSs to have those front and black bumpers. My hometown transit TARTA's(Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority)1994 35' by 96" RTSs made by TMC has the black bumpers and ofcourse the series 50 engine.
If NovaBus was still around NJ Transit's RTS Express and RTS WFDs would've had the impact resistant black bumpers.
Have a great day!
-Ronnie
NJ Transit #1426 and #3791
Actually 2626 used to have both the front and rear bumpers black, the back one was painted white, the front is still the same. However we also have 2631 and 2642 with black rear bumpers as well, the only reason the bumpers were changed, cause either they fell off, which does happen especially on the NOVA! or the are really banged up! As, a matter of fact the just put another new rear bumper on 2626 cause the last one fell off......LOL......that is the RTS for ya. Atleast they starting to rehab the 95/96 Novas. We currently have only one rehabbed, nova 2636 which featured LED lights, Orange destination sign and new drivetrain, as well as new passenger seats with a really neat design. Hopefully this rehab will make them a lot better, cause everybody knows that those buses need it!
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage!
I saw it last night!!! I saw the Pond Road Bus Depot on Lakeland Av (CR 93). I did not get the numbers but I did see the buses. Cool!
According to a map I have----Pond Road merges in and ends at Ocean Av in Bohemia, while Lakeland is about 1/2 east at that point. Ocean continues north and then Lakeland merges into Ocean up in Lake Ronkonkoma......I think you mean Ocean and Lakeland. Lakeland and Pond DO NOT intersect at any point.
Okay, it was dark. I could not see.
Hey Thats my Yard that you were looking at. I'll give you some numbers from off the top:
Gillig 8703-30
Gillig 9646-47-48-48-50-53
Flxible 9323-24-25 (9323 use to be in Bayshore)
Gillig Shortees 9722-23-24-25-34
Orion V 9933 (borrowed from Bayshore) 9934-35-36-37-38-39-40
They are building a new and bigger maintaince shop for the buses. Also they are building new office facilities for us drivers and supervisors. The buses are parked everywhere even in the area where the gaurd dogs use to live. LOL! I guess when everything is finshed, they will get a new home.
You mean buses #8703-8730? Or 8703 and 8730? All of these buses are at your depot?
Sorry about that. I should've typed that better they are 8703 and 8730.
Dave
I went over to the yard today and I saw 9645 at the pumps. Add that one to Pond Road roster sheet.
Saw 9645 also the other day on Ronk. Ave. with the new paint scheme.
9642 has the new paint job on also.
Im trying to figure out which depots for Suffolk transit operates whic lines: So far, ive only been oable to get to one of the garages-Inter-County Coach in Babylon. Here is what they operate:
s25,s29,s33,s35,s40,s41,s47,s54.
can anyone post the suffolk transit garages and the routes that they serve?
Okay, here are two that I know:
Southampton Depot (Hampton Jitney's "THE OMNI" bus stop):
S90, S92, S94 (Summer Only), 10A, 10B, 10C, 10D and 10E
EBA Transportation Depot in North Amityville:
S1, S20, 1A and 1B
BusTalk member R-33#8878 would know more about the western part since he works for them. As a matter of fact, he already posted it on BusTalk. Check back through the past week and you should see some under the title "MTA Suffolk Bus"
Hope that Helps!
When the last major service cuts were made in September of 1995 only the following have been restored
1-B-3 service between E. 71st Street and E.74th St/Ave X but with a reduced service span
2-Q-20 weekend service but via the new 20th Ave branch only
What about the rest
Any commnets
Thank You
I may be mistaken, but the Bx14 lost three late evening trips to the cuts: 2246, 2316, and 2346. Even though there are still quite a number of people getting off the #6 subway at Parkchester who need to get to the other side of the neighborhood.
Are those the runs or bus numbers? #2246, #2316, #2346
they look like times to me: 1046PM, 1116PM and 1146PM
Thanks Mike!
I had a question. I already looked for the answer in the bustalk archives and saw no mention of this subject.
I was browsing the pictures of the NYC busses and came across pictures from more than 20 years ago of the prototype busses made by Renault and Hino. I vaguely remember the newspapers make mention of them at the time that they were being tried out by NYC to possible replace the Grummans that were failing at the time. I was about 10 at the time, but I was a bus fan already.
These busses were gone in a relatively short time. I apologize in advance if people have talked about this before. But I was wondering whatever happened to these busses? Were they simply sent back? Why did NYC reject them? Their appearances were ahead of their time. They look a little like the present day Orions and New Flyer Low Floors. Thanks.
Why did NYC reject them? Did you get a GOOD look at them. You talk about the Orion VIIs being ugly...DAMN! Those buses look disgusting! I do believe the Hinos were with Suffolk Transit as the 300's (R-33#8878 back me up on this) but they were 30 Ft buses. Geez!
I never heard of Hinos or Renault's ever being with Suffolk Transit. I'll have to ask about that to a veteran mechanic at the shop.
Dave
No, just the Hinos. In the 300 series. Bus #321 was on the 10A.
Never knew that. This must have been a long time ago.
I don't know about twenty years ago, but I do remember just a few years ago seeing a really gorgeous bus being tested on the M14. I think its number was 995, and it had a huge curved windshield that I seem to remember was one piece instead of the usual two. My memory tells me it was a Renault. Can anyone tell me if I'm right or wrong about that, and why MTA decided not to order them? Were they not durable enough for our mean streets? Was it a cost issue? Thanks in advance for any info.
That bus was a Nova LF Bus #995. The MTA did not order any because....well...that's a good question. But the bus is a Nova LF.
I could only guess why. It's only a possiblity but I'll take a shot. I think the reason that MTA didn't want it was because there was no other such bus like that in their roster ever. Charlotte Transit in North Carolina has a bunch of them. The New Flyers are better looking anyway.
#995 is a NOVABUS lowfloor. I was on it when it was running on the M14A route-you can see it working for the TBTA(Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority).
Yeah, except the Bridges and Tunnels bus is an ex-CTA Chicago Nova LFS...it's been renumber #956..a.ctually, last time I checked, there were two of them, #956 and #957...both ex-CTA units, correct?
Cleanairbus
MTA did not order any of the HINO and RENAULT buses because after getting burned by the Flxible order, the MTA was in no mood to be a guniea pig for a new manufacturer of buses no matter how hard the respective companies tried. So MTA went with the tried and true and stuck with GM/TMC/NOVA RTS's. Also If they could have really wanted to be a ball-buster to the American bus industry, they could have decided to get Canadian New-looks, and said "SCREW YOU" to the American bus builders. But since Uncle Sam was paying the cost of the buses, they had to "Buy American".
Too bad, I think the New Looks would have been a better choice.
MTA was gonna by new Flxibles in the mid 90's but the company filed for chapter 11. I think the bodies and frames still on the assembly line at the plant. MTA was gonna give Flxible another chance but it was too late.:( The order went to BIA.
I think you saw a NOVA Lowfloor LFS. That was the one that had pictures taken in front of 370 Jay Street. I think also that same picture could be in the brochure in one of my Nova bus packets.
Then Hino was very small, but I don't know the official reason why they were rejected. The Renault bus wasn't much bigger. I rode both buses when they were at AMS and FFS deptos.
Wayne
Hino and Renault i do remember(in pages of Bus World magazine) that i have being operated on the M4(Hino) and M42(Renault)-dont know what happened to these buses. i do remember the number being #951 and i did like the renault-hopefully someone can answer why these buses arent running in ny now.
B1-9318
The Hino buses were 950 & 951. It spend a lot of time at AMS depot.
Wayne
[hopefully someone can answer why these buses arent running in ny now]
The Hino and Renault buses were merely demos sent by the manufacturers. As soon as the demo period was over in NYC, the buses returned to the manufacturers.
FP had Renault 961. I remember seeing Renault 961 on the Q54 (then B53) back then. I never got a chance to ride it; I was waiting for a Jamaica bound bus when it passed by heading the opposite way.
What did these buses sound like?
I thought 961 was a Hino and not a Renault as I also saw her at Mrytle/Wycoff running on the B26(I was on the other side waiting for a B55)Also does any body remember the TA testing a Neoplan AN440 at QV in the Mid-80's.I do,cause i managed to get it a feww times on the Q88.
WHAT! A Neoplan in NYC? Yuck! And this was for QV?
Yep,and was tested like in the spring of 84(same time that the DOT had the Metro-A's running for GBL and QTC),
The Hino buses were numbers 950 & 951. The Renault buses were 960 & 961.
Wayne
Okay, this is a long shot but here it goes. Does anybody know the Miami-Dade bus roster. I'm not sure how many Flxible Metro-B buses are left. Thnaks in advance!
I don't know about the availability of the roster, but I was down in Miami in May. Despite the addition of many NABI low-floor buses the past few years, there are still many Flxible Metros in service, some of them looking old enough to be B's.
Thanks Sid!
Speaking of Flxible Metro B's, I wonder what happened to the Metros M.S.B.A. had if they're not in Riverhead. I know M.S.B.A. and Jamaica Buses were the last two transit agencies around here to still use them, and IIRC they were retired in 1998 from M.S.B.A. (a year after the fishbowls were scrapped. The last fishbowl was #5403 retired from service in May, 1997).
I saw MSBA bus #750 (Flxible) being towed out to NJ via Lincol Tunnel back in 1998.
Most likely on its way to NIMCO. I remember #776 was a training bus for awhile, and was later replaced by NYC bus #6179.
Aren't the Westchester Bee-Line Flxibles Metro B models, or are they Metro C models?
They are Model B.
They are "B"s...best way to remember? "Bees" run the Bee Line! :)
-F.
Yeah...Miami has been all about NABIs, much like Baltimore MTA. Styling-wise, it's the closest thing you can get to a Flx Metro these days. And many former Flxible employees went there after the close.
-F.
Here is a good guide to the Miami-Dade fleet:
1000-1259: 1980 GMC RTS T8J 204 all retired
7001-7129: 1987 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1 most retired
8001-8087: 1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1 most retired
9001-9094: 1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1
9201-9215: 1992 Flxible Metro C, various powertrains and fuels
9301-9358: 1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1
9359-9373: 1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-4T-1
9401-9425: 1994 Flxible Metro D 40102-4T-1
9426-9430: 1994 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1
(note that all passenger windows on Miami Flxibles are the same; this makes it somewhat harder to tell a Metro B from a Metro D)
4001-4040: 1994 Ikarus 436
5001-5026: 1995 Ikarus 436
6001-6040: 1996 Startrans Cutaway
9701-9750: 1998 NABI 416
9801-9820: 1998 NABI 40LFW
9901-9993: 1999 NABI 40LFW
1901-1920: 1999 Bluebird TranShuttle
2001-2???: 2000+ NABI 40LFW
MDTA began retiring Flxibles en masse the instant they turned 12. Even before 1999, at least 30 of the 7000s had been retired. MDTA is currently committed to a multi-year megaorder from NABI. The total order is for 642 model 40LFW low floor 40-foot buses with Detroit Diesel engines. Also, there may now be additional 1900-series Birds.
Metrobuses operate out of three garages. The total fleet currently numbers about 800 buses.
I will gladly answer any questions I can about this information.
Okay, first thanks for giving us the roster. Second, "40102-6C-1" What does the "C" stand for...Cummins? What does the "T" stand for? What kind of engines are in these buses? Are the 7000's retired in order or they are all over the place? I look it up on Fernando Bus Page (Miami) and it has buses listed twice and it's confusing to read that. If you could list the numbers, that would be great. Thanks!
Flxible Metro model numbers tell about the engine. 6C means (usually) a six-cylinder Cummins engine. As for the "T", I'm not sure exactly what it stands for, but it turns up commonly in Metros with early Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines (after the 4 which indicates a four-cylinder engine.) As listed on the roster, most of the MDTA Flxs have/had Cummins engines, with a few DDCs now and then.
The 7000s have been retired on an as-needed basis, so the sequence of numbers has nothing to do with it. 7013 and 7015 might be retired but 7014 might be active (just an example). I do not know the status of specific buses. I live in Michigan, and I've never even ridden MDTA!
For the Flxible Metros:
6T = DDC 6V92TA engine (NJT 3000,3500 series)
6TL = DDC 6V71 engine (Baltimore 92xx coaches)
4D = DDC S50 engine (Pittsburgh, NJT 1966-1975 series)
6C = Cummins L10 engine (most WMATA, Miami-Dade)
6C8 = Cummins C8.3 engine (NJT 3700,1750 series)
6M = Cummins M11 engine (later Baltimore)
Great Info! Just one correction, the 6TL = Detroit Diesel 6L-71TA DDEC. Not only Baltimore but Dumbarton Express in California has the same engine in their buses also.
Peace!
DaShawn
Flxible METRO D (40102-4D)# 1975
What part of Michigan are you in? I will be visiting Grand Rapids and Detroit soon. I thought about catching a SMART or equivalent during the Greyhound stopover but it will only be for an hour. Any suggestions?
-F.
If you are only in Detroit for an hour, SMART will not be of much use to you. SMART is the suburban system, and all of their routes in Detroit are not supposed to let passengers off until the city limits. Also, most of their routes only run once an hour. You could feasibly take a little ride on DDOT, but I would not chance it with only an hour, especially considering how unreliable both systems are. If you're desperate to see a DDOT bus, however, you could walk two blocks east from the Greyhound station and look up Third Street, where DDOT buses from Route 34 commonly lay over. There are also several other routes which pass near the Greyhound station.
While in Grand Rapids, you could go on a GRATA bus and ride a Classic.
Only six of thirteen Classics remain in Grand Rapids (or "G-Rap" as the locals call it). I rode two of them in October 2001 and they were in pretty good shape, but ITP (formerly GRATA) is anxious to Gilligize their entire fleet. Grand Rapids is also the only place in Michigan to ride an Orion V. There are only eight of them, but hopefully these will stick around for a bit longer.
Really? Didn't see any Orions this time around...maybe the Gillig low floors replaced them too? Hope not...
-F.
Didn't get to do that this time around...and I did not see any Classics there. There were some Gillig Advantages sitting at their garage on Wealthy Street...wonder of they replaced the Classics as they are 12 years old? Also, it is called The Rapid now.
-Fred
Thanks for the info; thanks to Greyhound's unreliability, I got to take a ride on the DDOT and will ride one back soon. Which one to I take back to Greyhound's station...the 28? Please advise if I catch you in time. Thanks!
-Fred
Engine designation in Flxible model numbers...
8=DD 8V-71N
6=DD 6V-71N
6T=DD 6V-92TA
4T=DD Series 50
6C=Cummins L10 or C8.3
Wayne
The Model Year 2000 NABIs for Miami-Dade are 2001-2096. The new 2100s are being delivered, but I don't have the numbers off the top of my head.
It's a shame to see the 87 and 88 Metros gone. I would have loved to ride them in service. Oh well, the others are still there.
-F.
Here are some pictures I took a while back (1975) in Miami:
From: subway.com.ru/miami
Kind of reminds you of MaBSTOA 7768.
Why bus #7768 from MaBSTOA?
I think you mean MaBSTOA 7753, the only NYC Flx New Look with batwings.
Really? I thought the flxible had batwings?
Great photos! I especially like the Flx. Can you believe there was a time when people barked over paying 40 to 50 cents to ride the bus?
-F.
Barry mentioned this to me via e-mail and BusTalk. He was thinking, why not send the Q43 to Myrtle Av and Jamaica Av (Q55) and the Q1 to the LIRR Station. That sounds good but what will take the two slots the Q1 uses at the JBT (Jamaica Bus Terminal for those who did not get that.)? Well, Barry thought about the Q20A/Q20B and the Q44. Well, I'll worry about the number of buses later but here's my thing: That will not work for one reason...all buses back-up to the left and exit stage right. The Q20A/Q20B and Q44 would back-up to the right and stage left. That would not work unless if the Q20A/Q20B and the Q44 were to use 89th Av to Parsons Blvd and then a left on Parsons and right onto Archer Av and regular. If this was me, here's how I would do this:
Q20A, Q20B and Q44 continue up 168th St to 89th Av (like the GBL buses Q6, Q8, Q9, Q9A and Q41) then a left on 89th Av and another drop off along 89th Av right by the old Q3A bus stop (Not to interfere with the laying over buses along 89th Av). First stop will be on Merrick Blvd between where the GBL buses come out of the terminal and Jamaica Av. Not at the corner because the GBL buses need to make that right turn onto Jamaica Av. Merrick Blvd between Jamaica and Archer Avs is a mess with the Q17, Q20A, Q20B, Q30 (Archer Av ONLY) and Q44. Too many buses and you need to clean it up a little. This could be big! Let me know what you think?
Good thought though Barry. The Q43 should remain on Hillside Av and maybe the LTD service could be extended to Parson Blvd to include LTD stops 169th St and 164th St Westbound. Also, 163rd St and 168th St Eastbound. Maybe 165th St eastbound for the JBT routes!
There are a few factors to consider when discussing such possible changes. Manpower, equipment and necessity (justification) are among them. Financial appropriation is also a consideration.
1: To extend any route will warrant more equipment. Queens Village and Jamaica are already over capacity, with no storage space for the added influx of necessary buses to run such extensions (unless you plan on increasing distance while decreasing service).
2: Transferring bus routes in Queens is a bit more complicated because Queens Division does not offer a true "System Pick". So what does this have to do with line reassignment or transfer? Everything. Because Queens operators cannot follow their line to a new depot, any line that is transferred must have a comparable substitution. You cannot transfer a route from one depot to another without considering the operational factors involved. Without a comparable swap, one depot would have "extra" operators, while the other falls short of operators.
3: Necessity and Justification- would such an expansion make sense? Do people from Bellerose and Floral Park really need a one seat ride to Myrtle Avenue? Would duplicate service above an existing subway line warrant such extension?
These are just a few of the many factors one must consider whan glancing at a bus map and imagining extensions and line reassignments. Anyone have others?
I agree with you on what you say but i do have one question
Where is the duplication with an existing subway line if the Q-43 is rerouted to Myrtle Ave. Yes the F line operates on Hillside Ave between 179th Street and Queens Blvd but so does the Q20/Q44 between Queens and Stuphin Blvd and the Q43 operates between Stuphin Blvd and 179th Street. The subway and buses have two different riderships and really do not duplicate themselves
The advantage of running the Q-43 to Myrtle Ave in my opinion are as follows:
1-Allow additional connections to Kennedy Airport via the Q-10 Green Line route
2-Connection to the J/Z Line to Lower Manhattan something which currently does not exist. Please do not forget there is room for additional service on the J/Z while no additional service can be added to the E/F lines and the only additional service that can be added on the Queens Blvd Line east of Continental Ave is local service only
3-A rerouted Q-43 improves east/west service within Queens
Any comments
Thank Tou
I'm all for progress, and the idea, if implemented would only benefit me as a bus operator via affording more possible work. However, I question the additional ridership that would warrant such an extension because I cannot fathom anyone in Southeast Queens travelling to JFK via the Q-43 to the Q-10 when they can use the Q-3 instead, and save time using that route. Especially now, since it will run 24 hours per day.
Anyway, I just don't see it happening anytime soon, if at all. We're already blowing AM pull-out trips because we don't have enough buses (contrary to what anything in print may say). Even if we had the buses, we have no place to park them. Of course, even if we had the buses, and a place to park them, we don't have enough bus operators to handle the extra work.
Well, since you put it that way and pretty much taking all the fun out of this, I guess your right.
saw this running on the B3 today-looks real sharp. Also saw #4742 operating NOT IN SERVICE on the B1 going to Kingsborough College. Ill keep tab on UP buses.
B1-9318-NOVABUS
B3-9333-NOVABUS
Why are they repainting the Nova RTS buses?
Because they need to be repainted.
BIG AL
[Because they need to be repainted.]
That is an opinion, subject to challenge. I recollect that in a thread a couple of weeks back it was mentioned that NYCT now repaints its buses every 3 years or so. In my opinion, that is much too frequently. I know of no other private or public operator that repaints its buses that often. With proper cleaning and maintenance, a bus paint job should be able to last at least 6 years. I think NYCT can save a lot of money by cutting back on its repainting program.
I am in agreement here. Wonder how long it has been since Hudson Pier #3481 and Jamaica #3818 have been repainted? Frankly, I like the old style Gothic numbering anyway. I know Triboro still does that. The plain-jane numbers they use now are too tacky.
I think Helvetica font numbers look MUCH better on ADBs than the older style; they just look more modern to me. Now Fishbowls and New Looks looked okay with them...let's bring those buses back!
-F.
I gave him a very general answer because he gave a very general question. Currently, the only buses that are being repainted right now, generally speaking, are the 1999 Novas. They are getting their 3 year maintainence upgrades which involves a paint job. The question was "Why are NOVA's being repainted"? Right now any other nova that is repainted other than a 1999 is painted mainly because it NEEDS to be or because it was in a bad accident.
BIG AL
I agree - I think it's good that the buses look good, but I think a paint job every three years is a bit much. If the overhaul is necessary then that's fine, but it seems a bit wasteful to reapint a bus so often.
Wayne
If NYCT are repainting their eqipment, they must be doing it in-house cause the're certainly not sending them out here to the paint shop. Things have been kinda quiet there, transit bus wise anyway.
Ok That was no help, I meant why are they painting the door with white strips? And why did the change the font of the Nova Bus Numbers?
How did they change it? Narrower or smaller font?
It's pretty much the same size. When MTA created their new logo (and agency names) and paint scheme they started using the plain (Arial type) font.
Wayne
Ya I don't like the Arial Type Font, I like the original font, before they were repainted.
Arial is OK; it looks nice and modern.
-F.
Yes, I think arial (or helvetica as some call it) is pretty cool. I just don't like the newfangled agency name. What was wrong was wrong with "New York City Transit Authority" and the others?
Wayne
Wayne, I agree; Helvetica looks fresh and eternally modern. It matches ADBs well.
-F.
Since we've been talking about repainted Gilligs, if there is a program to repaint all buses in the new Suffolk Transit scheme, how does this go about ?
It seems private bus companies operate these buses for Suffolk County, much like the pre-MSBA days of Nassau County. Does Suffolk County give the bus companies the money for them to repaint the buses ? Not sure how this works.
Bill "Newkirk"
I would think so, being that their new reduce fare tickets even have the new scheme and symbol on them. Those are issued by the county out in Yaphank. It just seems like a slow process.
Bill, I hate to answer a question with another question, but I wonder the same thing about Westchester County Bee Line. I suspect one way or another the respective Counties pay for the repainting of buses. I think the Suffolk County setup is much more like Westchester's current setup than the pre-MSBA days in Nassau County. Pre-MSBA, there were subsidies, but the individual operators handled things such as bus painting, fares, etc., pretty much as if there was no County intervention. Of course, each individual operator had its own paint scheme, even with respect to the county-financed new look Flxible order.
Saw one on 9493 today on the 1 line as it was leaving Ballston. It was a silver rack. Looked pretty cool on the bus. It will be awhile before anyone can actually use them as nobody would know what route its on if they are so sporadic at the beginning.
Saw one on 2376 yesterday at College Park Metro Station, and this morning, FOX morning news was demonstrating how to use one, using bus 2396.
Very cool. Always good when the news helps educate the public on transit use. Fox rules.
-F.
They are supposed to add about 15 to 20 either every day or every month, I forgot which.
I think it's a good idea. They seem to get usage on Ride-On's buses.
Wayne
I do too. Once they show up on more buses on a regular basis where people actually know the bus they're going to ride has one, it will be great. I wont have to worry about buying a bike rack from my car, just put it on the bus and go to one of the great bike trails here in VA.
I took my seeming to be normal at least one a week bus trip, this time up near Reston-Herndon. Here are the buses I rode yesterday:
9455: Flx Metro 40'
2454: NFI CNG 40'
5101: MANN 60'; I wanted to try to ride one of these my last time
before they are gone. Had my choice of three to ride
2008: Orion 6 on the 38B
9488: Flx Metro 35'
7838: Fairfax Connector bus TMC RTS 40'
7832: Another Fairfax Connector bus TMC RTS 40'
7844: Fairfax Connector bus TMC RTS 40'
9487: Flx Metro B 35'
7791: Fairfax Connector Orion V 40' I think I had the "Turtle" bus
driver on this route, because he was slow until he got near the
Springfield Station. TURTLE, TURTLE!!
2058: Orion 6
2060: Orion 6, could have gotten the one sooner, but 2058 was late, getting to College Park.
I will post the story in the second part.
The day started out at 8:30 in the morning with me catching 9455 an ex-Southeast Flxible, then to the Capitol Heights Station where I caught 2454, a NFI CNG to the Minnesota Avenue Station. It seems that more an more New Flyers are entering service (many for the third time), because I am seeing more each day. I hope they weren't sent back to Montgomery just to have bike racks put on, they could have done that at Bladensburg. I caught 5101 at Minnesota Avenue, an aged MANN. I remember riding its cousins the 5000's up to 1995, of course when they were replaced by the Ikaruses (better known as NABIs. This bus showed its age on the inside as well as the outside. The A/C worked perfectly though as well as the "STOP REQUEST" sign. These were the first buses to have this sign, not sure if the Neoplans had them, in being the last time I rode one of them was when they first came out on a W4. 5101 ached and pained its way to Lafayette Square and by the looks of the inside it looks old. The bus could barely get up the bridge on Benning Road. But it was a worthwhile ride overall, getting to ride one of these things, maybe for the last time.
I walked to Lafayette Square and caught 2008 to Rosslyn.
At Rosslyn I caught 9488 to West Falls Church to catch a Fairfax Connector Bus to Reston Town Center. I am not too thrilled about Fairfax Connector but I do like the fact they kept their chrome wheels on (are you listening WMATA). The first one I caught was RTS
7838, and this would be the first of three straight RTSs I would catch. When I got to the Tyson's Westpark Transit Station, I thought I would be catching a 401 to Springfield, but unfortunately, I was looking at Saturday's schedule. One note at Reston Town Center, I spotted more new Fairfax Connector Orion Vs. These were 30', with the same DD50 engine and destination sign package as their last purchase. Anyway I caught 9487 on the 2T going to Tyson's to catch the 401. Nearing Tyson's the bus nearly got hit by a car,trying to beat the bus to the road, the bus won, and the driver gave that moron a good lecture. Anyway I got to Tyson's and caught the 401. I unfortunately got the "TURTLE" driver, because for most of the trip, it seemed like he was going below the speed limit, took way to long stopped at the Dunn Loring Station and at Fairfax Hospital. He speeded up when we got to Springfield. At Springfield, I saw more Fairfax Connector buses, these were 35' ones, but were almost identical to their 2001 purchase. The 30' on the left back and back sides look more like their 1998-99 purchases.
I finally was on my way home, caught a CAF car going to College Park.
At College Park spotted 2376 with a bike rack, and 9660 running on the J4 (2376 was running on the 83). At Springfield saw 8865, one of those Flxible with white doors. I was waiting to catch the F6 to New Carrolton and got it, about 10 minutes late. So late that I missed the F14 going home. I thought about catching the T18 and transferred to the A12 to get home, but when it took to long for the next T18, I just decided to catch the last F14 home. I hope to get a chance to ride a MANN one last time before they are gone for good.
Do you know the fleet of buses by depot for the WMATA? I read what you guys are saying about the SE depot, NW depot and that stuff.
I wish I could tell you, but it seems like everyday WMATA is sending one bus from one garage to another and it won't be over till all of the New Flyers are in service, which they should have been by now but are not. I could attempt to post a bus by depot but it might change the next day.
http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/bus/bussrvno.htm has details on the B18/B13 combination, s84 limited service (southbound only), extension of the x90 to serve WFC, Q27 and Q46 servivce adjustments, and other things that have created questions from statements in the minds of BUSFANs everywhere.
-Hank
Yep! Just saw it on www.mta.info I can not wait to see the Q27 in QCC. My Mom works at the Day Care Center at QCC so this sholud be good. Normally, she walks Cloverdale Blvd from Horace Harding Expwy over to 56th Av. Now she can take the Q27 (Non-LTD) into QCC. COOL!
Good and valuable information but I'm sure we'll have BUSFANs asking the same rehtorical questions tomorrow anyway.
BIG AL
I went to Ronkonkoma LIRR Station last Wednesday night (or Thursday morning) and it was my first time being at that station. It’s huge! A parking garage about 4 stories high? Unbelievable! Well, no buses were out that night because Suffolk Transit does not operate late night service system wide. I’ll keep you guys posted on the Suffolk Transit eastern Long Island observations.
Gillig 30 Ft bus #9714 - 10A at Southampton College!
Besides that parking garage, the huge outdoor parking field gets packed during weekdays.
Pierce Transit/Sound Transit has the Tacoma Dome Station in tacoma, WA. 2400 parking stalls in two garges 6 and 7 floors tall. Right now it has Pierce and Sound Transit bus service, and the Sounder commuter train. in Fall of 2003 Tacoma LINK light rail will also start serving the facility. two of the 6 Sounder stations both have parking structures with capasity for six or seven hundred cars each.
Okay, since I do live out here in Suffolk County, here are some ideas that I think could work for Suffolk Transit:
1) Get more BUS STOPS!
You will always find a bus stop in the town that the bus runs through OR in West central and Western Suffolk County.
2) Extending and rerouting bus routes
So far, nice job on the extension of the S58 and S74 bus routes to Riverhead Court House. Now, I think that some routes should be extended or rerouted. For example, the 10A bus could be extended into Hampton Bays LIRR Station. Yes, the S92 does go into Hampton Bays but the S92 uses Sunrise Hwy and North Rd. What about Montauk Hwy?
3) Adding NEW routes
The idea is that Suffolk Transit is small and more than likely will continue to be small. I think ONE bus route should be created, that being the NEW S91. The S91 would run along Montauk Hwy but I have not decided on where the bus route will go. Obviously, ST needs more buses for this process. (Boy, I’m picturing those ex-QSC buses in the NEW ST paint scheme right about now!)
What do you guys think? Let me know!
Rumor has it that they are talking Sunday service sometime next year. Maybe with that added service, there could be route extensions and new routes in place. But that sounds like an idea! I think they would purchase new equipment for that. The RTS would look good in that new paint scheme. I don't own a Suffolk Transit route map. Shocker huh. I'd better get one... Soon!
Dave
the problem is nobody makes RTS buses anymore.the one's from QSC were retired,the older ones so that really sucks.you know what would be a good idea? the RTS's from Green Lines and Triboro Coach should go to Suffolk with the new paint scheme,that'll really be cool! and GL and TBC can order OrionV's to replace them.
Now that's a damn good idea!
although the 1980's RTS's would get retired the newer ones from both bus companies would be the ideal buses for Suffolk,although from what ive seen most if not all of thier buses are 30 or 35,are there really 40footers there? TBC buses in the 2000's and 2800's and GL buses in the 1000 and 1100 are the ones im suggesting that go to ST.
Okay, first...ST has a couple of 40 ft buses. Buses #9100-9102 are 40 ft Gilligs! Most of the fleet is 35 Ft and some other buses are 30 Ft. Second, GBL does not have 1000 series anymore...those were GMC RTS-03 buses #1001-1015. Although, I see your idea on the 1100 series buses #1143-1182. TCC can keep the 2000 series buses #G2050-G2073 due to their CNG status. ST has no CNG facility. Although the 2100 and 2800 series buses #2136-2148 and #2800-2829 are nt a bad idea either.
At one time IIRC there was a route from Patchogue to Babylon operated by Louis Fuocco Bus Lines. Don't know if it was profitable. The problem that I see with your proposal is that it parallels the LIRR which is no more than 1/2 mile to the north at most points. Perhaps a series of mini-vans could meet the trains and bring the people to Montauk Highway unless there is enough demand for frequent service. The advantage is to this is that you are using existing LIRR equipment and keeping vehichles, buses in the case, off the road and causing less air pollution
The big boss was telling us that there is a proposal to start a shuttle bus service on Saturdays which I nicknamed BART for Brookhaven Area Rapid Transit. Nothing is nowhere near official yet, but the proposed service would run from the south shore to the north shore and the fare would be one dollar. The sticking points is that none of us would be paid double time or even time and a half to work the Saturday and the dollar fare would cause problems cause our buses are 12 seaters & 2 w/c only, and there could be a problem with overcrowding. I don't see it as competing with ST, and it's not like that at all. Think of it as a satellite service like the omnipresent SCAT bus.
BTW, we're getting two new cutaways, one gas, the other CNG, both will be 14 passenger & non ADA compliant. The big boss is not a fan of diesels.
AMEN TO NUMBER ONE!! I took a ride to Splish Splash waterpark yesterday with some friends. Port Jeff train out to Port Jeff...we wandered towards the general direction to the mcd's on some highway by car dealerships. Then we asked like 10 people where the bus was, 9 didn't know, 1 knew the general direction. We found a stop saying S62 Happauge and we didn't know that that was the opposite way of Riverhead. So I saw S62 Riverhead bus going opposite way coming to a red light so I RAN like fuck to the light and jumped up and down and the driver pointed to the corner where there was no bus stop sign! Most of the time you have to wave down the bus! What the hell is that?! At least put more signs to point out where the hell the line runs!
Yep thats the way it is. Out further east there are no bus stops. You have to wave the bus down and its up to the driver to decide if they want to pick you up. Also on drop off its also up to the driver where they want to drop you off.
Clayton---you were on a road known as "Nesconset Highway" or Route 347 to us locals. Had you gotten on the wrong way you could have stayed on to see the Smith Haven Mall and the Sportsplex amusement center on the mall property. Since both places are air-conditioned it wouldn't have been a total loss.
I was just reading another post which asked why MTA was changing the font on the Novas....and it brought me to another question.
From at least the early 60s (which is as far back as I remember) until very recently, New York City buses have sported one font for the exterior bus numbers, and a different font for the interior bus number on the front sign compartment panel. That always seemed odd to me, and I see that more recently manufactured buses have used one font inside and outside. (At least until they are repainted or have their numbers redone for some other reason.)
Does anyone know why MTA had in the past used a different font inside than outside? And does anyone know of any other bus system that does that?
I remember that on the GMC New Looks and RTS buses. I guess so the numbers on the outside would stand out more. Maybe that's it!
The interior numbers were usually applied at the factory using the same standard font that everyone else got when they ordered RTS's.....
Yes, I do. Valley Metro here in Roanoke has been doing that for some time; every new bus since 1976 has had Helvetica numbers both outside and inside, with the exception of the Flx Mew Looks, which had widely-spaced generic font numbers inside that looked cheap.
However, when the 91 models were renumbered in 1994, they went to a gaudy-looking Helvetica Narrow Bold outside, and a cheesy stretched-out Helvetica inside that looks like something out of South Park. The 94s now have that same narrow bold font outside when they are repainted or rewrapped, and it just looks tacky.
-F.
I passed by an M6 this morning and took a double take.
I have seen almost all of the older buses Hudson has since many of the Hudson routes are down where I work and I have not seen this one before. (And I got to ride 3809 (still good and looking good) on the M22).
Bus 4019 was on the M6.
Is this a new one from storage or has it been in the depot and finally decided to show its face??
It's been at Hudson for a while now.
I was catching the bus to work yesterday, and a funny thing happened. Gillig no. 9108 was on my route (81-Goodwill/Salem) and the Luminator sign partially blanked out, so it said "81 GOO". So I got to ride the "Goohound" to work...LOL!
Also, this one holds a special place in my heart as it is the first bus I ever drove. Anyone have any similar sign flops or first drives to share?
-F.
Oh, in terms of signs, lemme tell ya...
ON some MCH 1993 Orion Vs, the front destination signs on two of them, bus #234, and 2xx, has part of the "NOT IN SERVICE" sign stuck on the screen when the route sign is displayed; in other words, instead of "Bx19 BRONX PARK", you get "Nx19 BRONX PARK", and M7 UNION SQ becomes N7 UNION SQ...a Long Island Bus in the city? And the route don't even exist...
Also, I have seen a weird combo of the NOT IN SERVICE sign and a route number...e.g. "Bx19 IN SERVICE" instead of either NOT IN SERVICE or BX19 RIVERBNK PK...what gives? TA doesn't fix signs...234 still has the faulty signs on the front
Get my drift?
Cleanairbus
Got it...
I once photographed a B39 bus at Williamsburg Bridge Plaza. The bus had been shut off during a reading change, so it displayed "NOT DELANCEY ST" -- and it wasn't!
David
That sounds like a programming error....we had exactly the opposite happen on some of outs. They somehow mixed up the codes when programming so the route portion of the sign stays blank, and then the entire reading is squeezed into the destination side of the sign.
So it looks like " 57 Newport Beach" for example.
When the signs are programmed, each sign panel on the bus is programmed individually, believe it or not. The format is programmed by a single-digit code. Put in the wrong code, and the mess starts.
When I was driving for Univ. of MD, I was changing the sign to "Not In Service" and the sign started to rip while it was scrolling without me knowing it and it ended up reading "Not In Ervice". Maintenance gave me the piece of the sign that ripped as a momento.
WMATA buses occasionally go on the fritz. One RTS had part of the Fort Totten sign stuck in the flip dots, so a bus going to Silver Spring would read "Sivotten Sprotten". Sounds like a Simpsons' show destination.
I've seen several times that the coding for "Ballston" has problems and the buses will come in saying "Brightwood". This has happened on many Orions for whatever reason.
Yea, I have seen this on two of the 2100s, when coming from Vienna going to Ballston, both had "2B Brightwood". The first time I had to ask the bus driver to be sure it was going to Ballston.
Sivotten Sprotten? Sounds like it's in German...LOL!!! What a funny story about the "Ervice" bus. Still have the piece?
If so, lay it out on the coffee table...when guests pick it up, just say "Hey...get your hands off my 'S'!". Say it to yourself out loud, and you'll realize how funny that would sound to your company. :)
-F.
LOL,great idea! Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore. I wish I did.
Sounds like you're having a fun time there in Detroit, minus missing your connections. Maybe it was fate in that you got to ride a 2002 RTS!!
Absolutely; while I missed my car club's annual show (and helping run it, being Vice President and all), along with hundreds of dollars at my vendor space, maybe it was indeed fate that I got to ride one of the last RTSes and discover the Motor City.
Not only that, but I discovered that indeed you cannot judge a book by its cover. While Detroit may look very dark, dirty, and grim, its people are very friendly and helpful, whether you are on the street or riding the bus with them. And their TA's staff is top notch; they are courteous and willing to help you learn the routes and answer your questions.
Greyhound could really learn a lot from them!
-F.
The electronic signs can produce some weird readings if they stop in the right place.
I had one go out once when I was leaving the yard with what I thought said "NOT IN SERVICE" on the front, and the reading outside really just said "NO ".
Then on a bunch of old GM 5307 transits we had at Gray Line years ago, the idiots who printed the roll signs did one reading that said "DINSEYLAND" (was supposed to be...the famous amusement park)
And when I worked for Airport Service, our 1981 MC-9's came with side signs that had no less than eight different readings with the word "Airport" on them, and the one for Long Beach came out "Long Beach Airprot". (One of the drivers said they spelled "Apricot" wrong!!)
LOL...too funny!
-F.
Got to thinking...when an electronic sign reads that way, a lot of times it is because the driver thought they were getting ahead of things for the end of that run, pressed the "Dest B" button, and thinking when he/she gets to the end, they'd press "ENTER". By pressing the "Dest A" or "Dest B", it stops all action of the sign until the "ENTER" is pressed.
Today, saw WMATA 2022 with "GOOD MORNING" at 5:45 in the afternoon. Also saw 2307 with no working sign, had a bike rack though and have seen at least seen three 9700s with the wrong back route number destination especially 9772 and 9773 with the R12 in the back and haven't seen either one on the R12.
It seems that everything old is new again, in that alot of things that were made in the past have been remade in a new form. They have brought back the Beetle, the bell bottoms, Air Jordans and even some teams have gone "retro" (ala the Washington Redskins) and baseball teams using the old Negro League uniforms. Wouldn't it also be nice to bring back buses no longer made. Although it wouldn't be possible, it is a nice thing to think about. If you had to pick a bus that is no longer made and any engine, what would that bus would be. The RTS is included since Novabus seems like they don't want to make it anymore. Mine would be the Flxible Metro with either a 6V92 or Cummins L10(old version, or new), or just the Flxible Metro period.
With my I.D. you don't even have to ask. Of course the FISHBOWL!
Like to try it with a Series 50, and a front door W/C lift (as long as we are imagining, lets go big). Wipers would be electric, with power steering and an A/C that would not kill the power of the bus, like it used to do. And an ADA electronic destination sign, a passenger controlled rear door. Today, such a unit might cost something like $300,000. Nice to think about though.
An articulated Flxible Metro. : ) Definitely would love the Fishbowls and New Look Flxibles to come back.
That would be nice to see a Flxible articulated bus and of course, WMATA and Baltimore MTA would line up along with other Flxible strongholds to buy these buses.
Wouldn't it be interesting that GM would want to get back into the bus business and bring back the fishbowl for the third time.
Cummins/Voith do have a refit pack for fishbowls. Imangine a fishie with a Cummins ISC and a Voith tranny. Strathcona transit in canada has some fishbowls with mini Balious signs in them.
That would have been interesting to see WMATA outfit some if its last fishbowls (remaining retired in 2000, replaced by Orion V and VIs) and put them back in service, they might have lasted another 20 years, at least 10 more years.
Oh - I'd definitley like to see the Flxible Metro as well as GM new looks make a return. Intercity - I'd like to see the Eagle 05 (both versions), MC-7, 8 & 9's return.
Wayne
If so, which route(s) will move from Yukon to Castleton or Castleton to Yukon.
Your help is appreciated.
well, yes. It will be done at the end of the year, curtosey of Santa Himself. Actually, both CAS and YUK will be combined to create a "death star" which can blow up any other depot in the city (like battlebots). The new High-Speed MCI's (which will replace the MTA SIRT), will be stored in this depot. If yu want to see construction, it's on a cliff, right under Bruce Wayne's house.
regards ;)
i think the S44 should be moved out of Castleton and to Yukon since it ends in front of Yukon and doesnt go anywhere near Castleton.
The s44 runs right behind Castleton, on Post Ave.
All but the s61/91, s55/56, and s79 have been sent to Castleton. Yukon has the most x-bus runs, and thus a majority of the MCIs are located there. There is insufficient room for the local routes it used to service.
-Hank
i still think Yukon has enough orions and RTS to include the S44.i dont see why they dont just make the change,besides its kinda asking alot of one depot to handle 90% of the service in Staten Island.it needs to be relieved
They DID make the change. The s44 used to run out of Yukon. It was moved to make space for the 14 x-bus routes that operate from Arthur Kill Rd and Richmond Ave and points southeast of there. The x1 ALONE runs every 5-6 minutes between 5:00AM and 8:30AM That's 42 runs, just for the x1.
-Hank
oh grand.but from the way i see it,the S44 still has room at Yukon.
they couldve at least tried to see if it was still capable of staying there despite so many express routes leaving from there.i still say its possible.
It is physically impossible to store any more buses at or around Yukon Depot. Buses are now stored in the employee parking area UNDER the depot, in the fire lane next to the depot, in three new parking lanes carved out of a mapped but unbuilt highway that was formerly parkland, and in a former staging/turnaround lot more than a mile away. The only way to fit any more routes in there is to relocate something else. There are three (four?) runs for the s55/56. I'm not sure how many runs there are for the s61/91 or the s79. I'm sure someone else here knows the exact numbers.
-Hank
there are 8 runs for the 61/91, and there are 25 runs for the 79. there are also mics runs the withs routes included as well as extra school pieces on the 55/56, which cast supplements as well.
So how many buses would be needed for those runs?
-Hank
i would say between 20 or 30.
It was definitley a surprise to see a New Flyer and the GM 1912 bus sitting in the lot at the Arlington Fair. They were using bus 2419. It still had the run blocks from the route it was just on and had the U8 bus schedules inside. It was block BU33. The drivers were very nice and let me sit in the driver seat. One driver said the bus is very quiet and drives like a cadillac. The gear controls were on the front of the dash which was pretty cool to see.
A weird Thomas bus pulled in while I was waiting to go home on the free shuttles. It was really new, not low floor, had round headlights, but the side mirrors were attached by very long black arms on eihter side that looked like bug antennas. It was the dumbest looking thing, but they looked bendable, so maybe its pretty resourceful of Thomas to have them
A Transit Liner? I think they're just glorified flatnose schoolbuses but then I've never been on one.
C
Yeah, that's exactly what it looked like!!! Those mirrors are crazy!! LOL. It should be painted red with black dots so it would look like a ladybug.
Or elephant gray . . . "Dumbo." Hehe.
C
I've been on the bus you're referring to. They suck. Absolutely suck...
Right now, the new B13 maps have offically been put on every(if not most) B13 bus stops. The new portion will be similar to the B18, but it won't follow so close to the L-Line. The only thing I don't know is what street will it go on from Wyckoff Av. to get to Bushwick Av.. I'm guessing Dekalb Av..
-
B13- RTS #9143
Good. This follows up to the bus stop signs. Which BTW, are also on Elderts Lane in front of the movie theatre. Funny I did not see the B14 sign there. I thought the B14 was being extended south to Loring Ave.
BTW, I plan to do a farewell B18 and B40 ride sometime next week,(Wed or Thur) if anyone care to join me, email me.
Mmm, I'm not sure about the B14 sign near the multiplex theater.
I'm also going to get my last ride on the B18, also I've never been on the B78 before, so I might take both of these the same day.
Believe it or not, at first, I was scared when I heard about the B13 change. I thought they were going to it give a crappy ass name like the B84, and kill my B13. I was glad to hear the B13 number lives on. That shows you how close I am to this route. I even had a dream about the B13!
On September 8, I am going straight to the new B13 at 10:00AM, and on that day I will post my opinion/ranking on it. I hope it lives up to the greatness of original B13. I will see how it does, especially on Bushwick Av.. I just it will never become the nightmare that the Q58 is during rush hour(shivers). If I EVER see two buses back-to-back on the B13 I will be very mad at the TA for destroying my favorite route, useless there a very good reason, such as a car crash, or some other bad incident.
As for the B47, I don't have too much interest in it like the others have here, and I'm not riding it right away. The other Brooklyn buffs here can post their opinion/ranking on it.
-
B13- RTS #9142
On Sept. 8, I will witness the death of the original B13
Testing
I've been following with great interest all of the media coverage about the proposed "Downtown Transit Hub" to be built near the World Trade Center Site. All of the talk has been centered around the various subway and rail lines that would serve the hub. Very little has been said about how buses would be integrated into the hub. Oddly, despite it being the heart of the city, Manhattan doesn't really have a central terminal where NYCT bus lines begin and terminate their runs. The area around George Washington Bridge Bus Station in northern Manhattan where the Bx3, Bx11, Bx13, Bx35 & Bx36 begin and terminate is about the closest thing I can think of.
Hopefully planners will not ignore buses and and incorporate a bus terminal of some sort complete with platfoms and waiting areas in this new transit hub. Some of the lines that could begin and terminate their runs from the transit hub are the M9, M15(City Hall Branch), M20, M22 & M103.
What do you think?
You left out the B51 and various express runs that terminate in lower Manhattan.
Good observation and duly noted. I was working off the top of my head so it was inevitable that I would leave out some lines.
Iread somewhere that a bus terminal was in the works ALONG with the train station....
I know the Union Square area/8St have few buses terminiating there.
Yeah those storms did a number on the traffic here in Nassau county in the PM. Waiting for the 5:28pm bus to Glen Cove in Greenvale, I noticed lots of slow moving traffic down Glen Cove rd, most of it making lefts for going west on 25a (Northern Blvd). Also there were firetrucks earlier that were heading south down Glen Cove rd. The storm must've knocked down a tree or something, and combined with the usual LIE mess that moves over to 25a, must've caused one moster delay in the Roslyn area. The 5:28 didn't come until just after 6:20pm. It didn't break down, because the 5:28 is always the same bus on the 3:25pm Hempstead bound bus, and the numbers matched.
Man that is some delay, but I heard that there were at least 90 min delays this evening on the city bound George Washington bridge, especially on route 4. I was thinking of going to Garden State plaza but I'm glad I didn't! The 171 must've been running over 90 minutes late!
That was due to flooding along various roads in upper Manhattan, due to the storms. They hit here around 3:30pm, and it was really coming down. Lots of bolts just to my south.
couldve also taken the 175 or the 163 from the PA.
Below is the article taken from the SI Advance website.
It says public service will not be affected, but do you think the contracts may go out to bid soon???
Atlantic Express files for bankruptcy
However, the Port Richmond-based company vows to keep buses rolling
Saturday, August 17, 2002
By MICHAEL WAGNER
ADVANCE STAFF WRITER
Promising to keep buses rolling, Atlantic Express Transportation Corp. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection yesterday.
The Port Richmond-based company, one of the largest school, express and charter bus companies in the region, filed for Chapter 11 along with more than 60 of its affiliates, but said it would continue to operate throughout the company's financial restructuring.
Company officials cited astronomical increases in auto liability and insurance premiums since Sept. 11 and stressed the need to re-negotiate its school bus contract with the Board of Education as soon as possible to cover what it said are elevated costs including rising health, welfare and pension benefits, and a grossly undersubsidized escort service.
"Business will be as usual and buses will be rolling," said Carolyn Daly, an Atlantic spokeswoman. "But this certainly indicates a serious crisis in the school bus industry."
The burden for companies operating in New York is related to the current contract subsidies paid by the city, she said.
Yellow school bus contracts are revised every three years, but subsidies are tweaked according to the consumer price index, not the company's actual out-of-pocket costs.
For example, subsidy increases from the city have averaged 2 to 3 percent, while insurance premiums for the bus companies have risen an average of 50 percent -- some as high as 300 percent, industry experts say.
At the same time, coverage has dropped.
"Really, it can be connected right to Wall Street," Ms. Daly said. "That is exactly where the insurance companies started taking great losses. It's just so many economic factors hitting at once."
In addition to the insurance hit, Atlantic Express became responsible for an unexpected increase in health and welfare monthly premiums under a collective bargaining agreement that covers 23 percent of its transportation operation's bus drivers, escorts and mechanics.
The agreement expired June 30 and no new agreement has yet been reached.
The bankruptcy filing stems directly from the company's contract troubles in New York, Ms. Daly said.
In papers filed with U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, school bus transportation providers said they have consolidated assets of $312.4 million, excluding goodwill, and debts of $330.6 million.
Atlantic Express Transportation had $298.7 million in assets and $257 million in debts as of March 31, according to court papers.
The companies, owned by the Atlantic Transportation Group Inc., have contracts with 149 school districts in 10 states, including New York. The company also provides services to public transit systems for physically and mentally challenged passengers, transportation for prekindergarten children and Medicaid recipients, fixed-route transit, and express commuter line, charter and tour bus services, which include the Travis park-and-ride and the two subsidized South Shore express bus routes.
Atlantic Express Transportation and its affiliates have a fleet of about 6,800 vehicles operating out of 73 facilities nationwide. The companies have more than 8,500 employees.
During the fiscal year ending June 30, the companies had revenues of $441.6 million. Ms. Daly said the companies posted a net loss of $25.6 million for that year, triple the loss from the year before.
As reported, Atlantic Express Transportation Corp. and its units were unable to make the Aug. 1 interest payments to holders of their 10.75-percent senior secured notes due 2004, under which $120 million is outstanding.
The company had said in late July that it was discussing its liquidity needs with its senior bank lenders and its financial advisers and is exploring alternative sources of funding and ways to improve its capital structure.
Atlantic Express Transportation's secured lender is Congress Financial Corp., which is owed $128 million, according to court papers.
In a statement, company brass said none of their public services will be altered.
"Our relationship with our employees and our vendors will not be affected by the filing," it said.
Ms. Daly, who also represents a coalition of 40 school bus operators throughout the city, said other operators are also in similar positions with regard to insurance premiums.
"They're all up against the exact same converging economic factors -- auto insurance, health and benefit increases," she said.
Sources said the move was partially intended to send a strong message to the Board of Ed for help.
(ASSOCIATED PRESS material was used in this report.)
What and where is the farthest point you can be at from a NYC bus stop, standing in NYC boundaries of course! My guess is about a mile somewhere in Staten Island?
Tottenville - at the end of Hylan Blvd on the S78 route I believe
??? Doesn't the S78 GO to the end of Hylan Blvd, so how can that location be far away from a bus stop?
Maybe I was too vague, I'm looking for a location that IS NOT a bus stop but is a point that is FARTHEST AWAY from any bus stop.
Let's see...if you only count local routes, there is no service on Staten Island in a box bounded by Bloomingdale Rd/Foster Rd/Seguine Ave on the north, Hylan Blvd on the east, and Arthur Kill Rd on the west, with the west and east sides meeting at a southern point. Running purely along Amboy Rd, it's 3 miles from Amboy Rd and Seguine Ave (s56) to Amboy Rd and Johnson Ave (s74), so that makes about 1.5 miles each way. It's 2.3 miles (as the crow flies) between Amboy/Seguine and Bloomingdale Rd at Woodrow Rd.
-Hank
Well, you could always be on one of the islands out in the middle of Jamaica Bay -- which would put you more than a mile away from any bus stop.
Another possible spot is inside Van Cortlandt Park but away from Broadway and the Bx9.
CG
Breezy Point on the Rockaway Peninsula has no bus service. The nearest stop is at Beach 169th Street, right near the Marine Parkway Bridge. I don't know how far away that is.
From Beach 222st to Beach 169st is approximately 3 miles.
-Hank
When I click "post a new message" it says "subtalk post."
I did the same thing. Don't worry , it still goes on BusTalk.
Chuck Greene
1) The NYCTA bus roster at Transit World says that the 1999 orions 6000-6349 are BIA-ORION, though I'm pretty sure they are OBI-ORION. Can anyone help me on that?
2) Also, there was a time about two years ago where MCI changed the name of their models from DL3 {double check on that} to D45??, with the ?? representing the last two digits of the year, ie D4501 for a 2001 model. Now that we are in 2002, can anyone tell me if they are still continuing with D4502?
3) All articulated buses are New Flyer D60HF, no variation on the model, right?
4) Was Orion 7560 delivered in 2001 or 2002?
I'll see if I can help you with some of these:
1. This is kind of a moot issue. Until early 1995, Orion models were shared between two separate but related companies: Bus Industries of America and Ontario Bus Industries. The entire Orion operation was streamlined, and the whole company is now known simply as Orion. BIA and OBI don't really mean anything anymore.
2. Mid-way through 2000, MCI did indeed change the way they designate their models. The 102DL3 became the D4500. It was originally proposed that the last two digits would be the model year, but later, they decided only to change the last two digits for minor updates/modifications in the design. That's why we're still on the D4501 and brand-new J-series coaches are J4500s.
3. Yes, all NYCT New Flyer artics are D60HF model, or as I like to call them D60.
4. 7560 was delivered and redelivered several times because it was sent back so many times. I am not 100% sure, but I think that it made its first apperance in late 2001.
MCI was NEVER going to use the model year as the model number. "00" referred to the model configuration as it existed when the model designations were changed, which just happened to be 2000. They always stated that the number would only increment when the model was upgraded. Here's the link to MCI's press release from then:
MCI Press Release 8/31/2000 - Model name changes
I just went exploring on their site...I love the following comment that goes with the delivery photo...
'Oregon Department of Corrections recently added this high security version of the MCI® ISTV to their fleet. According to Major Thomas Cramer, "My guards love it and my inmates hate it. I am very happy". '
-Hank
Okay, so can anyone tell me which NYCT MCIs are D4500 and which are D4501?
Transitalk's bus rosters yield the following:
Model 102DL3: 1860-2139
Model D4500: 2140-2209, 2705-2804
Model D4501: 2805-2924
Thanks for all of your responses!
Just two more that have hit me:
5) The Orion 5, Orion 6, and Orion 7 are technically called the Orion 5.501, 6.501, and 7.501 respectively. Is that right?
6) The exact model name of the RTSs from 1981 to 1985 is GMC-RTS T-80-204 and 1986 is GMC-RTS T-80206, and 1987 and on is TMC-RTS T-80206. 6360 is a TMC-RTS T-80206 and 6361-6364 have not yet been delivered. Please confirm the verity of all of this.
Thanks a lot!
5. This is true for all NYCT Orions. There are other Orion model variations at other systems, though. For instance, WMATA's 30-foot Orion Vs are model 05.505. 05.501 is generally the model number used for a standard 40 x 102 Orion V, which is representative of all NYCT Orions.
6. Again, true for NYCT. 1981-1985 model year RTSs were T80 204 models. You could get more specific and break them down into T8J 204 models and T8W 204 models based on the engine. Once they moved up to the -06 RTS mark, they stopped using the engine indicator and they were all RTS T80 206s. Once again, though, there are dozens of other RTS models at other transit systems with model numbers like T8W 603, T70 606, and T80 208.
As for 6361-6364, we're not sure what's going on with those. As the RTS has essentially been discontinued, those might not even make it to NYC after all.
According to a small article in today's (Sat.) Newsday AET and 60 of its affilated companies filed for bankruptcy protection, citing the high cost of workmen's comp. and bus liability insurance. According to a spokesman it will be business as usual until everything is sorted out. No school bus service is expected to be impacted.
With Atlantic Express going Chapter 11 now can New York City void their contract and have the TA take over their Staten Island Express Runs and the Metro North Commuter Link service in the Bronx .
I understand that Castleton and Yukon have no room for additional buses but can Edgewater be reopened as an annex just to store a small amount of buses. According to the Atlantic Express web site only 30 buses will be needed to cover their current schedule.
I know that the new MCI's that the TA just received can cover this additional lines since the TA still has the RTS and Orion Express buses for use on the Brooklyn and Queens express runs
Any comments
Thank You
Alos, low ridership routes - those with like only 3-5 runs can use the Orions or Novas to spare the MCIs
As far as NYC voiding any contracts, I don't think so if AE can still provide service unless there are provisions in that contract covering the contingency of a bankruptcy. I am not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that only the Bankruptcy Court has the power to void the contract on AE's behalf not the City's.
No, won't happen.
The City would only void the contracts for a serious decline in service. Atlantic Express is well-loved on the South Shore from what I have heard as well. No new MTA expresses will leave Staten Island without pulling pieces from other routes during the height of the rush hour because there is nowhere to put them.
If anything, that revenue will HELP them to reorganize.
Just saw the following at 34th and Madison
A Hudson Pier Bus 5202(not 100% sure of number) but with Hudson decal and run number marked 106 which i am 100% sure running north on Madison Avenue with destination sign " M4 110 Street-5 Avenue"
Thank You
I thought MCH did the short trips on the M4(only time you see an Orion V on that line besides the ones on the Q32 and M1)
Yes at one time weekday AM extras were covered by Mother Clara B Hale Depot but never on Saturday
I saw the Hudson bus this morning just before noon
Thank You
I have a shot of 9206 on Transitalk, IIRC a 126th Street Unit on the M3 at Central Park.
I guess when there is a bus shortage they borrow.
Also sometimes there is some garden variety runs that comes from other yards, prime example is that there is about 2-3 runs on the M30 that is operated by Mother Clara Hale.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
If you think that was wierd, two days ago I saw a MV bus working the M11 southbound near my school.
A trade, perhaps?
I remember when I use to live in Queens that I would see bus #4561 racing up Homelawn St as the Q30 to Jamaica/Archer Av. That was around 1991-1992 (before being repainted, of course). Also, I saw bus #8944 on the Q30 towards Little Neck on Jamaica Av about to make the left on 170th St. That was back around 1998. Both buses were from Jamaica Depot. CS loaned some buses to Jamaica on the Q17. I remember seeing buses #173 and #1708 (ON DIFFERENT DAYS) heading to Jamaica. This was between 1994-1996 (I'm not sure of the day) but as "The TOR-nado" said, this is nothing new.
I remember seeing 4214 and 4596 on the Q30 anbd Q31 last year when I attended school at SJU. They were on loan and were given back to JAM. However 521 and another 5XX bus still has CS Stickers on it and they've been running around QV for quite some time now. Anyone know what's going on?
#521 Q46
Mother Hale does not have any more x-pieces on the M4. We do however have one x on the m30 and one x on the m98.
In the case of the Hudson bus doing a trip on the M4, perhaps the dispatcher at Penn Station took a q32 and had the operator do a trip on the m4 to break a gap in service. Same thing with the MTV bus on the M11. The dispatcher on 135 St and Bway may have used a m4 or m5 as a M11 to break a gap. While suck things are not done as a first resort at times you have to provide service and you'll try anything.
Mother Hale does not have any more x-pieces on the M4. We do however have one x on the m30 and one x on the m98.
In the case of the Hudson bus doing a trip on the M4, perhaps the dispatcher at Penn Station took a q32 and had the operator do a trip on the m4 to break a gap in service. Same thing with the MTV bus on the M11. The dispatcher on 135 St and Bway may have used a m4 or m5 as a M11 to break a gap. While such things are not done as a first resort at times you have to provide service and you'll try anything.
Okay, this is a fact, not a rumor so listen up! According to the July 2002 issue of "The Leader" Ken Daube, General Manager of the Brooklyn Division explains "I'm lookling forward to the construction of the Grand Avenue Bus Depot in BROOKLYN. That will relieve the overload at all the Brooklyn Depots."
Now, he does not mention which bus routes or buses or when the construction will begin so do not ask. Check out the July 2002 edition of "The Leader" by calling the MTA's DOB at 1-888-692-8287 or 1-718-927-7499.
Oh, BTW the Maspeth Bus Depot is the Grand Avenue Bus Depot. Same spot but different name.
Will they you a copy of the Leader if you request one? Also any word if and when a new edition of the Insiders Bus Guide will be available? Or if this publication done for good. Shame it was a great little book.
I was wondering if anyone has ever attempted to put a full bus schedule on their Palm Pilot. Late at night when taking buses I like to know when one is coming. If so how did you do it ?
Thanks
Anthony
IDEA FOR SEPTA.....
WHY DOSENT SEPTA WORK WITH THE CITY TO ALLOW BUSES ON THE WEST RIVER DRIVE. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MOST BUSES COULD MAKE THE TURNS WITHOUT MUCH OF A PROBLEMAND WITH THE CONNECTION TO THE PARKWAY AND DOWNTOWN.....IT COULD BE LIKE AN EXPRESS BUSWAY TO DOWNTOWN...ESPECIALLY FOR 9, 27,61 EXPRESS 124, AND 125 SERVICE. IM EVEN GETTING IDEAS OF LETTING THE H/XH COME DOWN LINCOLN DRIVE DURING MORNING RUSH AS ALTERNATE EXPRESS SERVICE....
THE 44 COULD EVEN USE IT AND TURN LEFT AND GO INTO WEST PHILLY OFF OF THE FALLS BRIDGE EXIT OF THE DRIVE INTO WEST PHILLY AND OVER TO CITY AVENUE.
the city did'nt aloud no big objects on LINCOLN DRIVE .
I KNOW THAT THE CITY DOSENT ALLOW IT...BUT SEPTA COULD TRY TO WORK OUT A WAIVER OR SOMETHING....
There's no chance of Lincoln Drive being opened up to SEPTA. It's too narrow for any vehicle wider than a passenger car. As for West River Drive, there could not be any weekend bus service from April-October due to the road's being closed to motor vehicles. Regardless, I-76 is much wider and (most of the time) much faster and better for express bus service.
What is the reason for the constant moving of buses from depot to depot? I think is was W.E.S. who said it was because not all of the c40lf's are in service, but how would that justify moving the buses around like Metro has?
Not only are they moving buses around like someone would toss a salad, in that some of the moves doesn't make sense. For instance, instead of sending 4300-4309 to Western from Royal, why not have sent, 4359-4369 or 68 from Bladensburg to Western, since they already have 4346-4358. I can't say why, some might say to rotate the mileage, that is move low mileage bus garages to high mileage bus garages.
It could be someone at the garage dumping their "junk" off on someone else.
Like the powers that be couldn't replace the Southeast bus garage in the early 90's, therefore having cramped bus quarters and therefore, most of the buses coming out of that garage being in poor shape. This might not have be true, but the Gilligs might not have been retired, if stored at Bladensburg, Western or 14th Street. Most of the Southeast buses are dispersed, with most being stored at the Annex garage on Southern Avenue. Southeast still have some buses but not as much as it used to have.
What a day for bus watching/riding. Because of the "el" shutdown between 30th and 69th, they had tons of shuttle busses running.
You had your pick of Nepolans, Neo-Artics, & Flyers.
I caught a Neoplan Artic back from 30th to 69th. Boy are they slow taking off. Must of been from the full load we were carrying!
Chuck Greene
The new Neo-artics in Westchester County, operated by Liberty Lines Transit, have series 60 engines in them. They had to be slowed down with a computer program because the took off so fast, passengers surely would've been injured. Fortunately they did this prior to putting them into service. Also on a rain/snow day, the trailer would've spun out (drive wheels in rear) and been very dangerous. With this new program the bus is fine. It will eat up any size hill for breakfast. Passenger loads have no bearing on pulling power nor does having the A/C on. Great bus package. Great bus.
That makes lots of sense about the rear section spinning out!
Thanks for the tech info and now I won't complain any more about their performance!
Chuck Greene
wow that a powerful bus!
Makes you want to grunt like Tim Allen and yell more power!
The terchnical name of the computer program that was completed in these artics (68 total and 10 more on order) is "throttle reduction".
It works in conjunction with the bend of the trailer. The more of a bend on the trailer, the more throttle reduction. However don't be concerned about losing power, like on a hill. This was all worked out. It took a few re-programs to get it right. Now there's the best of both worlds. And yes -- it's a powerful bus.
What are the model designations for the Allision three, four, five and six speeds? Also, how many forwards are available in the Voith and ZF tranmissions and which engine do they seem to work best with? Thanks.
1.for small voith they are in 3,4 gears DCC50
2.for zf 3-10gears i think cummins
The Allison transmissions are:
2 speed: VH-9 (among others)
3 speed: VS-2 (among others)
4 speed: V730, HT740, B400R (among others)
5 speed: B500R (among others)
Voith D863 I believe is a three speed, haven't driven any buses with these.
ZF can come in a variety. I drove a Neoplan tour bus with a five-speed. I've also driven New Flyer D40HF with them, coupled to a Cummins L10 or M11 engine (the buses were reengined with the M11). They went fast as hell.
I've also ridden NFI D40HF's with a detroit 6V92 and ZF five speed. A lot smoother than the Cummins, but it has a lot to do with how maintenance shops set the shift points.
Allison V730/731 transmissions are 3 speeds. Yhe second digit of the AT/MT/HT/V-series units is always the number of gears (HT747 is a 4-speed, HT754 is a 5-speed). The V730 was really jusy an updated VS2. The torque converter has an "effective ratio" (for example, the TC470 created an effective ratio of 3.25:1 until it locked midway through 1st gear), but there are only three actual gears. The ratios are:
1st - 1.77:1
2nd - 1.21:1
3rd - 0.88:1
(from the GMC RTS-04 and TMC RTS-06 catalogs)
This is why the RTS came standard with a 5.38 axle - the gears were too tall to get the bus moving on their own. The lighter weight 870/Metro came with a 4.55 axle standard.
The transmission in my Dodge Ram Cummins does pretty much the same thing. The rpm drop noticeably when the torque converter locks in 3rd or 4th gear, which gives the "feeling" of another intermediate gear ratio. Incidentally, the AT545 is the grandfather to the Allison 1000 that is used in Chevy and GMC pickups now - in fact, 3rd and 4th gears are identical, the 1000 has closer-spaced 1st and 2nd, plus an overdrive 5th.
Also, the B500 is a 6 speed. The first 4 gears are similar to the HT74x, while 5th and 6th are both overdrives. This allowed coach manufacturers like MCI to change the axle from 3.70 to 4.88 - they now come off the line much faster, but the 2 overdrives bring the rpm back down to economic levels on the highway.
Here's a link to Allison's website where you can click on various transmission model numbers and get info (scroll to the bottom for all the model number links):
Allison Automatic Transmissions
Thanx for schooling me on Allison transmissions and axle ratios. I was a little surprised at the axle ratio for a RTS, but given the the GVWR plus a full load of passengers, I understand the need fully. However, when I was looking at the spec sheet for a 102DL a few years ago, in addition to offering Allison, Voith and ZF transmissions, the deepest axle ratio offered at the time was a 4:56. Just an observation.
Prevost offers 4.30, 4.56, and 4.88 axles on their coaches with the B500. Both MCI and Prevost use Meritor (formerly Rockwell) axles, so the ratios available are the same.
The 4.88 is actually the closest to the 3.70 that was the indistry standard with the HT74x trannies. At 2000 rpm in 4th with an HT740 and a 3.70 axle, a coach was good for 67 mph. With the B500 in 6th gear and 4.88 axle, 67 mph is achieved at a much more fuel-efficient 1700 rpm, with plenty of reserve for passing. And as I mentioned, at the other end, that 4.88 axle gets you going from a stop MUCH faster than the 3.70 - win/win for the bus company: faster acceleration AND more fuel efficiency.
You've schooled me again! I knew about Rockwell axles, but I didn't know that they are now known as Meritor! So my lesson learned for today is that when buying a coach for either local or suburban duty, one must choose his powertrain and axle ratios carefully to get the performance and fuel economy desired. Too bad the manufacturers don't offer a two speed rear axle with say a 4:10 and a 4:88. The 4:10 would be better to get the bus moving in say, snowy and icy conditions without excessive wheelspin.
what is slugging? I heard it is real popular at the Pentagon.
What it is, that people wait in line to catch a ride either from work or to home, so that they take advantage of the HOV lanes. Alot of times they are riding home with strangers, that just happened to be going their way. It is popular for those who travel into either Prince William, Loudoun, or Stafford counties. Two of the most popular lines were at the Pentagon or on 14th Street, between Constitution Avenue and Independence Avenue. I can't remember where the term "slug" came from though.
Post any information you might have.
No, MTA is going to give me buses to park on my street in Brooklyn since I have room. They are giving me ten buses currently operating out of Ulmer Park currently assigned to cover the X29. The X29 will be covered by suburban-style transit buses. The MTA will also supply drivers to drive these buses.
The buses will be repainted with a yellow stripe and blue lettering. I will run five buses on each route to force Atlantic Express to the bargaining table. We will then receive the X24 and allow Atlantic Express to keep the X23. My corporation will be an MTA-backed corporation to allow MTA drivers to operate private services and compete for other contracts to provide Local 726 with more jobs. All speed governors will be removed to allow extended use of the Turnpike's HOV lane. This is a special project to protect the MTA's market share on Staten Island.
It is part of the MTA Strategic Plan located at www.state.ny.us. The plan will start to take effect in Spring of 2003, coinciding with new picks. Internally, it will be referred to as the Wild West division.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
quit asking these damn questions and find out yourself!!! the TA already posted on thier website about the B13/18 and B40/78 merging to be the B13 and B47 beginning 9/8.they didnt say anything about the B8 being extended so the answer is NO!
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Yukon Depot is fine the way it is, they already have enough space. Edgewater is not needed. This has been talked about before.
Now stop asking these damn questions, before I send FP's 3997 to your house(heh heh heh, that was just cruel)
The MTA will be storing the new MCI G4500 order at the Edgewater bus facility. These buses will have convertible seats so that they can be used for local bus service off-peak. The 1990 RTS and Orion equipment will be kept until they are 22 years old because when these buses arrive, the older buses will only be used during peak hours. This will reduce MTA maintenance costs.
Edgewater may also host a new fast ferry so that the MTA can recoup lost express bus revenue by shuttling passengers to the new facility and through rent paid by New York Waterway.
Are you pulling our legs about MCI with convericle seats? I know that I been away from DOB for almost two years now, but the sound like a joke.
Robert
"AR" What the hell are you talking about?!
"AR" What the hell are you talking about? I think it's the H4500! It's the first Hybrid of it's kind from MCI!
The MTA has NOT ordered any G4500'S.The D are just fine,thank you very much...
There is no Edgewater Depot. It sank into the harbor in the late 1980s. There is a storage lot that holds about 3 buses, but I don't believe it is currently in use.
The problem is that there are no facilities close to the location to service the buses, which means a lot of time wasted deadheading from other locations. The storage lot at Arthur Kill and Richmond is just over a mile from Yukon; drivers must be shuttled there each morning, and buses and drivers must be shuttled there each evening.
-Hank
oh... it's you again...
Received an email earlier this evening that seemed perfectly legit with the subject..."Orions. Some were on lifts and others were in...".
Thinking it to be harmless pics of Orions in a .zip file, i began to download it thinking it was from a fellow bustalker...however my system intercepted a virus from this file.
Just thought i'd pass along a warning in case anybody else gets it...
Good Heads up, Thanks. I hope the virus software will pick it up. I just updated the program infomation.
Robert
I just saw on the news that a Ride On bus was rear ended by a tour bus this evening. The Ride On bus involved was 5593, delivered in 2001? There were no real serious injuries, the report stated, except for one guy who had a shoulder injury when trying to board the bus. The left rear of the bus suffered some damage, I am not sure where the accident happened or the route number that bus was on.
16 people were injured, and the person boarding the bus had a serious shoulder injury. The bus was a 2002 delivery, practically new.
Ten former Staten Island Orion V express coaches have been resurrected and are now ready for service on the X90/92 out of Quill Depot in Manhattan. The 10 Orions (136, 141-143, 147, 149, 150 and 157-159) were stored in Carlton Yard all summer. An eleventh Orion, 127, has been transferred to Mother Hale.
Meanwhile, 1981-1982 remanufactured clunkers 7038-7049 have been transferred to 126th Street where they will see local service. Stay tuned for more.
Mark
Not too many 1982 and 1984/1985 RTS' still on the active roster, numbers of 1986's dwindling, 1987's will begin to be retired as soon as expected replacements arrive. How long does the TA plan to hold on to those 7000 & 7500 series rebuilds? A handful are retired already.
I wish JG never gave those 4600's/4700's to FP. The was the crappiest fleet change I've ever seen. FP was better off with the 4071-4112(originals). I wish they kept them long enough to get a real fleet change. What's next after the 4600's/4700's are gone? Ninety-five 8000's/8100's?
I hope the rebuilds outlast the 4600's/4700's
What the hell does the FP's 46/4700's have to do with the Orion suburbans replacing the 7000's on the X9092?? I think I speak for everyone on this board when I say that your constant whining about FP's fleet is getting a little tired. FP isn't the only depot that has it bad. Today (Sunday) I saw 4214 on the Q85. Not only is that a 1985 RTS, but its a former Kingsbridge bus as well. S*** happens. Ulmer Park's local fleet is ten times worse than FP's. More than half of their local fleet consists of 1986-1987 RTS's and those god-awful 7500's.
I will grant you that 101 1987 RTS's is a bit much, but you have 41 1990 RTS's which perhaps are the best RTS's ever built. You also have 103 1996-99 Novas. I guess thats not good enough for you. Well, you better get your crying towel out now because the 3900's currently in FP storage will be rolling again come September. Have fun!!!!
Mark
How many 7000's have been retired so far besides 7004?
Buses #7021, 7023 and 7029 are next from Queens Village. That's what I've been told.
I was @ Queensvillie Depot last tuesday & i saw most of 7000's park on track 26 next to police bus say not used in service by Queens Division GM & also i saw #7004 park outside not strip & the only part they strip are driving seat.
David J.
I saw you there. I also saw the board that read "Queensville Depot". Have operations planning identify the depot correctly. It's "Queens Village Depot". Not "Queensville".
You don't have to take this so seriously Q5, its just I get crazy because of the three and a half year long wait, plus I was at Palmetto St., and you know what you see there...
What's the difference anyway? What do you know about a "good bus"? NOTHING!
Just dip the card, take a seat, and ring the bell when you want to get off.
Any bus number or style will accomplish that task.
If you don't appreciate your home depot being the redheaded step-child, move to another location. Just not southeast Queens.
;-)
WHY DON'T YOU MIND YOUR BUSINESS IF PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT THERE SHOULD. NO ONE ASK YOU TO PUT IN YOUR TWO CENT. THAT WHY THIS IS BUS TALK PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT AND ANY OTHER DEPOT AS MANY TIME AS THEY WANT.
Thank you for the support :)
But I don't won't to start another arguement over this. Let's just end it at that.
Using "ALL CAPS" is considered YELLING in usenet and on message boards such as these. It is impolite and improper netiquite to use all caps, and subject to complaints to the forum administrator.
I suggest you educate yourself with respect to proper netiquite and refrain from using all caps. You may also want to use a spell-check, grammar-check and punctuation-check...
WHY DON'T YOU MIND YOUR BUSINESS
Not unlike your post, my post agreed with someone else. Anything posted on this board is "my business" as much as it's "your business".
You omitted a necessary "question mark" after "BUSINESS".
IF PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT THERE SHOULD.
What exactly does "THERE SHOULD" mean?
You omitted a "comma" after "DEPOT".
NO ONE ASK YOU TO PUT IN YOUR TWO CENT.
One "cent". Two "cents".
THAT WHY THIS IS BUS TALK
"THAT WHY"? What exactly are you trying to say here?
You omitted a "period" after "TALK".
PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT AND ANY OTHER DEPOT AS MANY TIME AS THEY WANT.
No. When someone repeats the same message time and again, it is considered flooding. Flooding is improper netiquite and subject to removal from the boards.
By-the-way, you omitted an "s" from the word "TIME".
Nice post!
This guy sounds just like that studentid44\lunanticjr character person over on straphangers. He was funny.
ohhhh.. love it when you get so ''teacher'' like, dude.[LOL].You have a unique way of putting folks in ''their place''.Ilove it....
Hey Brooklyn, you forgot to mention that he even spelled his handle incorrect!
L M F A O
BIG AL
>>>WHY DON'T YOU MIND YOUR BUSINESS IF PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT THERE SHOULD.<<<
I don't feel that you should have the authority, let alone the AUDACITY to say something like that to someone that you are having a discussion with, whether in real life or on Internet discussion boards. Please, take it somewhere else...
>>>NO ONE ASK YOU TO PUT IN YOUR TWO CENT<<<
NO ONE asked him to put in his two cents?
Is it just me, or is that ridiculous??? If no one "put in their two cents", so to speak, then what the hell kind of message board would this be? In order for there to be discussion, someone, or some people HAVE to put in their own contribution, whether it's about Fresh Pund Depot or Jackie Gleason Depot or even the Market Street NJT Garage, whatever! Hey, maybe someone here WOULD like to hear complaints about Fresh Pond, but that's him...let him do that...you don't like it, you can leave, as there are PLENTY other people wanting to hear what others have to say...
>>>PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT FRESH POND DEPOT AND ANY OTHER DEPOT AS MANY TIME AS THEY WANT.<<<
Heh, this is the only thing I agree with you on...heh
BTW, I just came back from Boston and Maine...for those who give a hoot...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Boston's Getting NABIs?"
The only good thing about living near a FP dominated area is the B13(and I still manage to respect FP because of this one route). I refuse to move away from my B13, its the reason I started liking buses!
-Jay
Sorry I jumped on you a little bit. I was just trying to point out that FP is not the only depot in NYC to have clunkers running around. Nor, will it be the last. Please accept my apology for the harsh tones.
Now behave yourself before I have DOB send you 4214 and 4215 :)
Mark
Okay I'll calm down.
I just wish someone would put a blindfold on me, when I'm at Palmetto St. :)
-
(New Quote)
Sept 8, the day I witness the death of the old B13.
I think I speak for everyone on this board when I say that your constant whining about FP's fleet is getting a little tired. FP isn't the only depot that has it bad.
Amen.
Are those buses repowered?
The Onion Suburbans are there to replace 1852 from revenue express service.
9270-9277, 9342-9344 will either go back to UP or stay right where they are. I say the latter.
As far as the MCH Onion 127-there were Suburbans there before if I'm not mistaking. Was it 121-124? Guess they're short of buses. However, I say that CS needs some buses for their local lines desperately. I heard that they're extremely short especially now that most of the 505-521 fleet have went to QV. And I will not be surprised if more of the 500s go to QV as well to replace the rest of the 1986 RTS Fleet there.
#118 Q32
Okay, a couple of questions:
1) Why are the Orions replacing #7038-7049?
2) Will buses #9270-9277, #9282-9284 and #9342-9344 see local service or they will be on the X26?
3) Will the Orions be on the X26?
4) Why is bus #127 at MCH and why did the MTA choose 126th St to receive those buses?
5) When will the Orions start on the X90/X92?
That's all. Thanks for the update Q5Merrick!
126th Street received 7038-7049 because it is the bastard stepchild of Manhattan Divison and receives all the garbage that MaBSTOA doesn't want.
Not all of them. Look at Hudson Peuke oops I mean Pier- they have rejected 3900s 4100s a few 4300-4400 and 4500s. Also they have 1 or 2 3400s and 3800s. Saw 4540 on the M6 yesterday at Times Square.
#4324 Q32
1) Why are the Orions replacing #7038-7049?
Why not? I split my trips downtown between the x25 and x26, and I’d rather ride on an Orion or Nova coach. The high-back reclining seats seem more comfortable to me than the fixed low-back reupholstered seats on 7038-7049. Nothing against Queens Village, but I thought it would have made more sense to send 7038-7049 to QV to join 7001-7003 & 7005-7037 after the MCIs started arriving. That way, any of the Novas from 9250-9261, 9286-9290, 9292-9294 that were in excess of QV’s express bus requirements could have gone to Quill for x26, x90, x92 service. Although the 70xx buses don’t seem to be well regarded, and although they’re 2x2 and not 2x1 seating, at least in local service they don’t have the seats on raised floors like the Nova & Orion coaches. I would think this would at least marginally improve passenger flow over the Nova/Orion coaches, making them no worse than the 2x2 local buses that are standard with the Queens private fleets.
2) Will buses #9270-9277, #9282-9284 and #9342-9344 see local service or they will be on the X26?
I don’t think there’s any distinction @ MJQ between the x26, x90, and x92. I’ve been on a 70xx one day on the x26, and the same bus has been on the x90 or x92 the same week. Likewise with the Novas, x26 one day, x92 the next. Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised to see any of the coaches from MJQ in local service if they needed the bus bad enough, just like UP or QV. I would say that they should put any coaches surplus to the needs of the x26/90/92 on the m98 before they put them on a run like the m42. Just a personal opinion though.
3) Will the Orions be on the X26?
Rode 142 on the x26 to BPC this AM – I didn’t see this thread until I got to work this morning, so I did a double-take when an Orion pulled in this morning for the x26.
5) When will the Orions start on the X90/X92?
Again, just a personal opinion but you should see them on the x90 or x92 the same time they go on the x26, i.e., now.
Thanks for your answers!
should have moved #7038-#7049 back to Ulmer Park to help on the local lines.just a thought.
#5091-B49-NOVABUS
The clunkers (7038-7049)are already in service at 126th Street. Some were assigned to the M66 today and the drivers that drove them all agreed on one thing; THEY SUCK!!!
Where are the Ride-On bus depots located?
The southern Ride-On bus depot is in Lyttonsville near Silver Spring and the northern bus depot is located in Gaithersburg, off of Shady Grove Road.
Before asking for information, it is helpful to reread through the posts before making a request for information. This allows the page to load up faster and load up with relevant questions. This is a site where productive things take place and irrelevant posts are very annoying.
Failure to do this will result in the disregarding of further posts made by those busfans. Your posts are very similar to a rash of posts that appeared last year throughout web sites dealing with New York and New Jersey transit issues, resulting in a registration process AT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE SITES. Busfans named John and Richard seemed to have been blocked from several systems and since you are all the same, you would be best advised to take heed.
Busfans or trolls roaming this system after 2AM on August 19, 2002 will be placed on killfile by each and every member here. This website may collect killfile information and may remove your account for being a public nuisance. Therefore, let us police ourselves as a group, lest the website host have to do it for you.
Well, while I agree with the context of your message, I don't know that we all agree on what is and what isn't "irrelevant" to the other members of this board.
To be perfectly honest, most of the "what if" threads are "irrelevant" (to me, especially), because the discussion isn't pertinent to actual happenings. It's conjecture and opinion, and much of it isn't based on factual transit operation, but rather a "wish list" of items that probably couldn't be implemented if thought-out carefully considering all factors involved.
Then again, this isn't necessarily a forum for those in the transit industry. It's, by design, implemented for "bus fans", and not employees (who seem to kill the joy of "what if" threads with technical information) who enjoy such discussion.
Even so, some do find these threads "entertaining", and enjoy the discussions that become of such topics. So even if a thread, by definition, is "irrelevant", it still may prove entertaining.
As far as someone else implying who should or should not be included in my killfile, I'll reserve that right and opportunity as one that is personal in nature, not subject to public discussion or comparison. If you're going to killfile someone, they probably shouldn't be entertained again, or elsewhere, be that via email or otherwise.
I don't think we need as much policing as you mention. Most of us already know who the trolls are, and either ignore them completely, or reply with a tongue-in-cheek message that is synonomous with that reputation.
Anyway, the post is on topic. Any post that discusses the forum at hand is on topic.
Am I a troll?
All of your points are valid.
Whether you're talking about bus models or bus routes, if you make someone's day, it's valid to me. If the info is useful to someone, it's valid. If you are asking a question that has already been answered and you always do it, you're trying to disrupt the multiple conversations that we always have here and that by my standards, is not valid. Anyone in the congregation agreeing with me may feel free to voice an amen.
Busfan is a known internet troll on mass transit sites. I have seen this troll on two other sites and the amount of recurring nonsense forced those two sites to go to registration because of it. I had trouble accessing this site on Thursday and Friday for some strange reason and it aggravates me when I can't get on to read useful stuff, but someone else can get on to disrupt the flow and post junk questions. That's my gripe and that's why I was being vicious when responding to some of his questions. It's really annoying.
I can't force anyone to use their killfile and I don't care to. But whether or not I use it, it still eats up bandwidth and my DSL free trial ends on Friday (*sobs*). There is a reason that I used "busfans" and not the proper term of "bus fans". Now I'm going to put my flame thrower back in my pocket because this is not Fahrenheit 451 and I am not a fireman.
P.S.-I know about the H4500 project...NJT is getting two of them to flog in real-world testing, correct?
Due to my work hours, I often post at 2am, so that blanket statement of killfile anyone in the middle of the night is not a great idea.
P.S. No such thing as an MCI H4500 - the letter D is a model series, not "diesel". MCI can't use the letter H as a model series anyway; they would be confused with Prevost H-series coaches. See my post regarding MCI model names from last week for a link to MCI's model designations. The diesel-electric MCI is D4000H. It will be shown at the APTA Expo next month.
If MCI can make a Hybrid cruiser, why can't anyone make a hybrid artic ( especailly NFI) ?
Thanks for the correction. I wonder why they decided on a D4000 variant instead of the D4500. Isn't the D4000 a "custom" model?
Not at all. The D4000 is still a production model. Not everyone has a need for 45-footers, and of the 1400 new MCIs that NJT purchased, over 1100 are the shorter 40-foot, as are all 77 of the CNG-powered MCIs.
OK. Glad to see they are still around as an MCI salesman told me they would phase them out after the NJT order. Maybe it's the 96 inch version I'm thinking of.
No, you heard correctly on both counts. The 96-inch D4000N (N ofr narrow) is an NJT-only model, but yes, they very likely will phase the 40-footer out of production (and try to revive the G4100 to replace it).
MCI wants to kill the D-series altogether, but the orders keep pouring in. The base order from NJT was a half-BILLION dollars in their bank account. Keep in mind, the D is directly descended from the MC-series, which is now 40 years old (you can pretty much swap MC-8 luggage doors onto a D). Even the GMC/MCI/Nova New Look/Classic only lasted 37 years (1959-1995).
If you are asking a question that has already been answered and you always do it, you're trying to disrupt the multiple conversations that we always have here and that by my standards, is not valid. Anyone in the congregation agreeing with me may feel free to voice an amen.
Amen.
AH, you got my vote!
Don't you think that decision is for David Pirmann to make? Perhaps someone has a new spin on an old topic? Are you saying they aren't allowed to post their opinions here? To be honest, I don't have oodles of time to search through old posts to see if a topic was covered in the past.
Trust me, I have no time or patience to do David Pirrman's job...besides, the ax would fly like crazy:)
But we aren't talking about topics dealt weeks ago...we're talking about topics that haven't been archived yet in many cases. If I'm away for a while, I will ALWAYS check the posts made in my absence so I don't repeat what someone else says. Some people (other than myself) have also publicly complained.
David has a life...he shouldn't have to micro-manage a forum which consist of 99% mature young adults and adults.
Okay, all this time I have been talking about the Southampton Bus Depot (The OMNI). Well, I can tell you now that I was WAY off! Here's the updated roster from Southampton:
**********************************************************************
NOTE: ALL OF THIS IS FROM A BUS DRIVER ON THE 10A ROUTE THAT I SPOKE TO AT MY SCHOOL....SOUTHAMPTON COLLEGE (THE LAST STOP)
**********************************************************************
Routes:
10A, 10B, 10C, S94 (Summer only) and some shuttles.
Buses:
#9711-9714 (30 Ft Gilligs)
Now, here is the reason why:
Buses #9601-9608 are on the S92 but they are run by a different company....Sunrise Coaches in Greenport/Orient Point! In Southampton, it's Hampton Jitney. You see, I thought the S92, S90 were with Southampton but I was wrong. Flxible Metro-D bus #9332 is no longer at Southampton. It was a loaner to Southampton. We only have 4 buses with little to no ridership as compared to Central and Western Suffolk, there is about 300 to 400 people a day (I think he means a week). He was very nice about talking to me on this topic.
BTW, these are feeder routes:
1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3E, 5A, 6A, 6B, 7A, 7B, 7D, 7E, 8A, 10A, 10B, 10C, 10D and 10E. These routes feed into the main routes like the S92, S66, S74, etc.
A couple of other notes:
1)10A destination sign now reads:
10A So'hmpton College
10A Sog Harbo (It could not fit the last "r" in harbor)
2) The S66 has been extended into Riverhead Court House (the people wanted that). The S68 has been extended into Mastic-Shirley along with the NEW S71 which has replaced the S74.
That's all for now. I hope this helps!
Oh, the S90, 10D and 10E are onwed by a different company in the Moriches area but I do not know by which company.
To Q5 Merrick,
Is the B8 bus still going to be extended to Rockaway Av on September 8th.
Also, when will you update your bus roster.
what did i tell you? find out yourself!!is it that hard!? quit asking everyone,its annoying.i think your flat out lazy.i already told you that there is no mention of a B8 extention so quit asking!!
I agree with you V Train, he keeps asking the same pointless questions over and over. I should just send him the 4667, that I just seen a few minutes ago on Myrtle Av.. I see why people respond to with sarcasm.
-Jay
I'm embarrassed that I was mentioned in his post. I may have to change my handle.
Why do you need to change your handle? -confused-
The best way to deal with this troll is to simply not give any response period. Lately, people have been giving him plenty of responses, some serious and others jokingly, myself included, which just prompts him to ask more redundant questions to annoy everybody else on this board. If everybody just teams up and completely ignore his constant questions, he'll go away.
BIG AL
somehow,i really doubt that,he'll just keep on doing it regardless.
He get's satisfaction from knowing he's annoying everybody on bustalk by reading the responses. Without satisfaction, he'll move to another board to annoy.
BIG AL
Q5 Merrick has a bus roster? Someone send me the link?
It's ALMOST exactly where it says it is. A nice, expensive, new bus stop sign in what is essentially the middle of nowhere. There are several access roads for the state parks department, and this stop is at one of them. It's in a really wonderful location. There's no sidewalk at the stop, and there is NOTHING to go to if you got off here. In fact, there are two businesses and a home about 1/2 mile north of the location, and this is the nearest bus stop to them. Guess what? No sidewalks from either location to this stop. No sidewalks between the businesses. But both businesses have sidewalks in front of them, and one of those, a skating pavilion, sees a lot of potential bus riders (most of the high school hockey teams practice there). Oh, notice the stop is for the B63?
-Hank
I thought no Brooklyn-named buses went on the island?
Who goofed here?
CAN'T WAIT FOR THE B47 BUS TO START FROM WILLIAMBURG BRIDGE TO KINGS PLAZA SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING RIDE BUT WITH ROUTE IS GOING TO CONTINUE ON ST. JOHN PL EAST NEW YORK AND LIBERTY AV TO PENN AVE?
PSSS... Hey,you... speak softy round these parts there partner... we's hunting B47's... Service run from Woodhull hospital to K.P=NO MORE ST Johns Place. Take the B12[STP],B46[Bridge Plaza]...got that? good.... and from now on DON'T USE CAPPS[LIKE THIS].. unless you was to UNNUNCATE.....see ya later.....
No. The B47 northern terminal will be Woodhull Hospital(Flushing Ave and Bway). There is no more Liberty Ave Service from MG Blvd to Penn Ave. Use the B12 instead.
The new B47 bus stop are finally showing up. I noticed that the signs are up along Ralph Ave btwn Fulton St and St. Johns Pl in the Kings Plaza direction only.
B47#5113
now we can all say take the b47 to woodhull again!!!!!!
The B47 will be a Flatbush route, the B8 will be a Gleason route. In effect, ENY loses buses needed for 2 routes, the B8 and B40 so ENY needs less buses as a depot. We'll see which buses they surrender on 9/8.
Which is good since they cant park buses on the streets. I hope 9440-43 goes back to FLA.
I hate to start speculation because you never know whta the DOB is really going to do till it actually happens, but yes, it would make logical sense send 9440-43 back to FLAT. I would also throw 4872 in there too, the only 4800 at ENY.
Yeah, I hear you. Thats why I "hope" for it to happen..............
Just looked at the WMATA website and it lists October 20, 2002 as the official unveiling of their new Neoplan articulated. The exact time and date will determined later. Can't wait to see these suckers. Just looked at my calendar and if there is a home Redskin game, then that is when they will unveil them, because October 20th is a Sunday.
Supposed to make a trip to Staten Island tomorrow(if off from work) and plan to take te S79 to the mall and pass by Yukon Depot. Will let you know if i see anything out of the ordinary running. also, if able to get upstairs, i will let you guys know how many runs totally for each route out of yukon(used to be allowed up there, but there are bus dispatchers dsownstairs that dont let anyone up there, besides, the timetables are downstairs anyway.
BLX is having a flashback to late 70's, very early 80's. Summer hot, over 90 like the past week. BLX is operating the Q16 (mid-day run, started around 1130a). Those 7000's didn't have working a/c because maintenance didn't repair them. BLX is sitting with a wet towel around his neck, sweating like BLX didn't have mind altering substances for the Dead concert at Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City. BTW, this was an old minor league baseball stadium. Anyone remember??
The brains at Flushing decided to try and maintain a/c buses only on the Q28 route. Maintenance bolted the windows so they couldn't be opened. A/C was repaired and for a month or so this system worked. Problem was if bus had a/c malfunction, can't open windows, can't drive bus, can't make trip, service not 100% on heavy route. Also, when BLX had the Q16 run, short trips to Willets Pt. Blvd. & Utopia Parkway were alternated for the p.m. rush, then deadhead back. Oh how BLX enjoyed those DH trips back. Run like a madman back to the subway so that BLX had some time to rest his body for the next trip. Maybe the dispatcher will send you out early or cover another route. Those were the days, BLX fans unite to fight oppression and the structured system of not doing preventive maintenace (then, not now). I don't care what you say about BLX, he love you. P.S. a boring note from BLX that may excite those interested, saw 108 on Q46 today making trip to LIJ around 4pm. Yawn, BLX is resting now. Wake me in time to go to sleep.
What do you look like? I ride the Q16 and other Stengel buses all the time.....
Actually the 56/5700's were alot worse than the 7100's.
BLX last operated a Q16 bus in the spring of 1984. Still employed by NYCT after 24 years.
That reminds of the Grumman Flxes at M.S.B.A. You relied on the A/C because the windows were sealed. What a nightmare that was!
What were the official model designation of the deck and a half coaches used at Pioneer Bus Company (Now Command) and Liberty Lines Express.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
GMC decks were designated by year:
35-footers:
- PD-4107 - 1966-1967
- PD-4108 - 1968-1971
- P8M-4108A - 1972-1978
40-footers:
- PD-4903 - 1968-1969
- PD-4905 - 1970-1971
- P8M-4905A - 1972-1978
- H8H649 - 1979-1980
Just to add on to kcram3500's info.... Liberty had a group that they purchased new. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like 1101-1135 (approx) with the first 3 or 4 buses being equipped with lavatories. Later Liberty Lines added a bunch of second-hand GM Deck-and-a-halfs to their fleet. Many of them had the one-piece sedan door and lavatories as well.
Wayne
Here goes another long answer:
In 1977-78, NYCDOT purchased what I believe were the first express buses purchased for the privates. They were P8M-4108's (1978 models). Liberty & NYBS recieved 20 each, I don't know how many were received by the other Privates. About 1989, when NYCDOT purchased the current (in use) MCI Classics, Queens Surface made a deal with NYBS and NYCDOT. At the time QSC was in desperate need of buses. The deal was that QSC would get NYBS's deck-and-a-halfs, and QSC would relinquish 9 of their Classics to NYBS. This actually became reality. QSC even kept the same fleet numbers (500-519) that NYBS had. Liberty's fleet numbers were 1120 to 1139. Liberty purchased some of their own (1101-1109) brand new. Then as the express routes peaked, Liberty purchased many used deck-an-a-halfs (1150 to 1172). All of these had single manual doors. Eventually 1101to 1109 were re-numbered 1140 to 1149. Hope this helps.
NYBS deck-and-a-halfs were numbered in the lower 1400 series.
Wayne
Pioneer also received 17 of the P8m-4108's. They were numbered 7421 to 7437. When Pioneer went out of business in 1979 Command took over their equipment and the buses were renumbered 271 to 287
Thank You
Yes, I remember them. In those days Command had a pretty battered fleet. I remember the GM Decks and their newest fishbowls 25X-26X (T6H-5308A) were the backbone of the fleet. I remember they had a few late TDH-5303 like #230 that were converted to suburban configuration.
Wayne
Speaking of which,
does anyone know of any images of Pioneer Bus. I was 8 when they went out of business, but I vaguely remember them. I recall Fishbowls, and "PIONEER" written in a lightinsh blue color along the top of the bus. I tthink the color combo was brown and light blue.
It would be cool to see if my memory serves me correctly
Regarding the NYBS 1400's that became QSC's 500's:
Yes, you are correct about NYBS. Sometimes my memory is not as sharp as I wish it to be....and I blame it on age, I guess. Thanks for that correction.
Thank You All!
You all have been very helpful!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Never a problem - which is why we have this great B/T (and (S/T) family.
I had actually forgotten that they had made their way over to QSC. IIRC a few of NYBS fishbowls went to QSC as well. At that time QSC had a real mixed bag of buses. Reminded me of the old TNJ.
Wayne
OK, I finally worked Ridgewood Terminal on Saturday and really got a chance to take a look at the Fresh Pond buses. Here are the statistics of everything I booked for the day. I am comparing the 4000's against the 8000's and newer. It is a total number of buses on all 5 lines I monitored. Alot of the buses I counted were counted twice since they made more than one trip, but for statistical reasons, I will consider them all as one count.
DaRidgewoodBusBuff, eat your heart out.
B13: 2-4000's, 9-8000 or newer. Chances of getting a 4000 bus is 18%
B26: 10-4000's, 29-8000 or newer. Chances of getting a 4000 is 34%
B52: 19-4000's, 14-8000 or newer. Chances of getting a 4000 is 57%
Q55: 11-4000's, 20-8000 or newer. Chances of getting a 4000 is 35%
Q58: 3-4000's, 41-8000 or newer. Chances of getting a 4000 is 7%
Total number of 4000's period is 45. Total number of 8000 or newer is
113. Chances of getting a 4000 period anywhere in the Fresh Pond region is 39.8% Not such a bad ratio to be crying about everyday of the week. I will admit, the B52 seems to be the line of choice where the 4000's seem to wind up while the Q58 seems to be the line of choice where the newer buses wind up. There could be a better mix for the ratios on those two lines, however as I pointed out recently, the chances of getting stuck riding a 4000 overall is far less than 50%.
I would be embarrassed to run the Ulmer Park statstics as far as getting a new bus is concerned. I hope this post puts some of the crying about how bad Fresh Pond people have it, to rest.
BIG AL
Okay, okay Big AL, FP is NOT the worst, and that's a fact coming from MY words. I just hope the drought ends ASAP.
Hey, were you at Palmetto St.? It's the only place where you can see B13, B26, B52, Q55, and Q58 buses standing in one spot, and also the B54 right next to the KFC.
Chance of getting 4-6/4-7 bus is 18% on the B13, true, one of my reasons for loving the B13 so much!
LOL, its strange to see my long handle in a post.
-
Sept 8, the day I will witness the death of the original B13.
If Palmetto street is the only place where you could see all the lines I booked, then that's where I was. I was able to see the B54 also, next to the KFC, but because it was across Myrtle ave, I could not read the numbers very well, so I did not book the line. I did catch 2 or 3 buses on that line and they were all Novas, but I did not include them in my statistics. So technically, the 4000 ratio is even slightly lower than I had posted.
I must say I did not enjoy working that location. Too many problems to deal with having to worry about 6 different lines. Every other B/O crying his bus was hot, customers complaining about the B13, police crying to me about B/O's blowing their horns at them, detours on 3 of the routes, plus a host of other problems. I was assigned that post because I forgot to call the assignment desk on Friday to pick a post, so the assignment person stuck me with that. In the future, I'll know to pick any other location than that, with the exception of the East New York depot front door. I'll even take my old post at Rock Station on Rockaway Parkway and Glenwood Rd., one of the hardest posts in the entire city.
BIG AL
Saw an article in this weeks Ridgewod Times, page 3, about a lady who collected 234 signatures to protest the B13/18 consolidation. Sorry honey, where were your signers at the Public Hearing. That notice was posted in the buses!
If this has been asked before, please forgive me....I'm relatively new on this board.
I know that the 70xx and 75xx RTS buses are rebuilds, and were originally from the 1xxx and 2xxx series. What I'm curious about is why so few of those 1xxx and 2xxx buses were rebuilt.
If MTA figured that rebuilding would be more cost effective than buying new equipment, why didn't they have more buses rebuilt? Or was it just an experiment to see how well the rebuilt buses would perform?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Thank God that they didn't rebuild more! The 70XX and 75XX are pure garbage!
HEEEEYYYYYYY!
The 7000s are pure garbage, but those 7500s are friggin' awesome. The deep bassy sound, the take off, the shifts in the transmission. It's a Bus Sound Enthusiast Paradise.
I know for a fact that 7537 is the shit, I rode that bus on the M57 and between 8th and 9th Avenue that heffa got into 3rd gear and was hauling!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Some of the 7500's are awesome. 7540 is a particularly good bus. Most of them really suck and should be scrapped as soon as possible. They may be good for bus sounds but for drivers they're a nightmare.
The rebuilding was done at a time (ca. 1995) when NYCT was uncertain of the prospects of getting more standard 40-foot buses from its then-current suppliers (TMC-followed-by-Nova and Orion) because both manufacturers appeared to be on the verge of going out of business. Ultimately, more 40-footers were purchased from both manufacturers.
David
Sorry David, but that is not true. First, the very first rebuild was bus 7000 which was more around 1997. The bus I believe ran in Manhattan. Then 7001 was rebuilt and also ran in Mabstoa-the Bronx. I used to see it in the Bronx when I drove the Q44 out of Jamaica. 7002 and up followed and ran exclusively from Q.V. depot. Later on in 1998, 7001 was transferred over to Q.V. as well. 7000 was transferred to Flatbush where it resides right now.
The main reason for the rebuilds was for transit to save some money. Nothing else. They were hoping to rebuild several hundred buses, both inhouse and out, but ultimately, only about 100 were done, 50 in house and about 50 out. There were no problems with Nova or Orion at the time. TMC was already gone and the 1996 Nova 8900's were already in from their run around at the Olympics. This all happened in the Spring of 1997. I remember it well. Transit's goal was to have nothing but new buses and rebuilt buses running by a certain time frame, which as everybody knows has come and long gone now.
BIG AL
I remember this well too. 7001 was assigned to Gun Hill before it went to QV.
Wayne
When I said 1995, I was referring to the time the decision was made, not the time the buses started rolling off the (re)assembly line. It is very true that by the time the buses started coming back from rebuilding, the crisis that caused them to be rebuilt had passed.
David
So it was an experiment to save some bucks, and they found out it didn't work very well. That explains why so few were done. Thanks to you all for your replies!
Is is true that the 7000/7500's have rather short turning radius' compared to the other RTS's?
I haven't heard anything about that. Of course, to say that RTS's in general have the same turning radius' would be a lie. Every year has buses that have some short and others rather long radius'. When a bus has a long turning radius, it's up to the operator to write it up on the defect card. Wheather it actually get's fixed is another issue.
BIG AL
Here's a matter that's strictly of curiosity, and has absolutely no real importance. I've often wondered what kind of logic is used in determing the number sequence for new NYC bus orders. (I know, maybe I shouldn't be looking for logic where MTA is concerned, but I can't help it!)
For example, the first artic orders were numbered in the 10xx and 11xx series. Yet, the next artics came in with 5250 and up. By the time these new artics came in, I don't believe there were any old RTS buses still running with numbers in the 12xx-16xx series, so why wouldn't MTA continue the artic numbers where they had left off? Even if there had been a few stray RTSs around with numbers in that series, they could have changed the numbers of those RTSs to clear the way for a more logical numbering sequence for the artics. Keeping the artics in the 1xxx series also would have kept 5250 and up available for future RTS orders, which would have made sense since the last Nova RTS was numbered 5249. As it turns out, that's no longer applicable, since Nova won't be making any more RTSs, but I don't think MTA knew that when they decided on using 5250 for the artics.
Am I being picky? Yeah, probably....and if the city bought enough artics and kept the numbers in the 1xxx series, they'd still have to find another number sequence sooner or later because they'd run smack into the MCI numbers, but I wonder what thought process goes into these decisions.
Speaking of the MCI numbers....here again they skipped over the old RTS numbers (22xx and up). Why?
mci buses 2201-2208 are and have been in ulmer park for a year.
Right....well, sort of....according to transitalk UP has up to 2209. But numbers 2210 through 2704 were skipped. That's what I'm questioning.
Maybe it is because 2270 has been reactivated from storage.
>>Maybe it is because 2270 has been reactivated from storage.<<
Thanks for your reply. If MTA had a significant number of RTSs in storage with numbers in the 1xxx and 2xxx series, it would make sense to avoid assigning those numbers to new buses, and thus avoid having to renumber a large number of buses in storage. If it's just a small number of buses in storage that would have to be renumbered, I'd opt to renumber the buses in storage and not have to skip around when numbering the new arrivals. But that's just my own opinion...and you know what they say about opinions! :-)
During the arrival of the 1985 RTS's, 3800-4218, the 4000 series GM new looks and the Flx new looks still in service were renumbered into the 6000 series and 7000 series respectfully.
i never understood with the RTS buses. for example. the 8000's were like this:
8000-8399
8400-8567
8600-8704
8751-9699
what ever happened to the following numbers?
8568-8599,
8705-8750.
let me know.
8000 and up are RTS buses delivered between 1990 and 1998; I'm sure you know that there were also many, many RTSs in the 1000-2000-3000-4000 (and later 5000 and 7000, plus 6360) range. Also, the 1993 RTSs are 8401-8567, the 1994 RTSs are 8600-8703, and the Nova RTSs start at 8750.
Up until quite recently, MTA jumped to the next even hundred for each separate order of buses. For instance, the 1983 RTSs were 3001-3325, and the 1984 RTSs started at 3400 (rather than 3326.) This was the case for the 1990s RTSs as well. The 1990 order was 8000-8396 (plus the experimental alternate fuel buses, which took us to 8399.) To make things even more confusing, the 8400s were originally to be numbered in the 93500 series. 8401 and 8402 were delivered as 93501 and 93502. This was quickly changed, and MTA did indeed go to the next available hundred series from the last order; it was just coincidence that the previous order had been for about 400 buses. As the 1993 order was for 167 units, they went ahead and skipped to 8600 for the 1994 order. Also, the 8600s were the first NYCT RTSs delivered with Series 50 engines (I'm 90% sure.) When the NovaBUS RTS generation started, MTA realized that it was getting awfully high in numbers. I suppose they started at the 8750 "sub-series" as a way to save 9700 and above for future orders.
Another weird thing is that they started the 8400 series at 8401 instead of 8400. All of the other orders started on the hundred.
[Another weird thing is that they started the 8400 series at 8401 instead of 8400. All of the other orders started on the hundred.]
NYCTA has always been somewhat inconsistent about starting a new series of buses at xx00 vs. xx01. In the old look days, a new series always started at xx00 (as far as I remember). When the first new looks came in, it was logical to number the first one #1 rather than #0 (the 1-190 series). Subsequent new look orders similarly started xx01 rather than xx00, although I believe sometime in the 1970's one order started at xx00 again. Different RTS orders have gone both ways.
8400 was given to NYPD - that's why there's 8000-8399 , and then 8401-8567.
Hey, I've seen that bus a few days ago when I was on the Q39. It was parked near that Police Precinct on 58St. near the cemeteries. The bus # is 9598(like FP's bus)
My question is: Is this a 1990 bus or a 1993 bus?
Well - look at it -- if it has the triangular piece in the back, then it's 1990. If it has the entire rear covered like the 8401+RTSs by TMC/Nova, then it's a 1993.
Why did they do away with that triangular window in the back anyway? I think it adds a nice touch - it hints at the former slopeback design.
I believe 5250 is a renumbered bus. It was once 1110!!!
Also, 5251 was renumbered from 1111! Am I right on this one?
Cleanairbus
Yesterday on Sunrise Highway, Massapequa, I saw an apparently brand-new bus of Long Island Airport Limousine Service. Behind the driver's side window was the chrome model name: Marco Polo (one word or two). I recall seeing Marco Polos in Europe. Are they also made or assembled in the US? How many does LIALS have? Many thanks. Joe McMahon
Didn't think they were in business anymore.....They used to run stretch Checker cabs to the airports. They would pick up a few people. Then they would all rendevous at the LIE and Little Neck Parkway and you'd possibly change vehicles depending on which airport you were headed to. Same thing E/B.
Lately haven't seen their mini-vans on the roads. They had a charter service years ago using Eagles and hiring drivers on a per-run basis.
Wonder if the garage is on Motor Parkway west of Vets highway and are the Stewarts still in control ??????
A few years ago LIALS had a big argument with the Port Authority concerning (and I may be wrong) payments for permission to enter JFK bus stops. My recollection is that LIALS lost. From what I can observe along Sunrise Hwy in Nassau and Seaford, we occasionally see a LIALS van or bus. I suspect they are in charter or Atlantic City service, that the A in their name is not important. However, they are around. I never saw their garage. From my viewpoint, Classic has taken the chief role in ride-shares from LGA and JFK. Classic does not do the road-side passenger transfers one used to encounter with LIALS. Also, since that Marco Polo looked brand new, I am curious about the sales of that model in the U.S.
Don't know what is up with LIALS. The 2001-02 Suffolk telephone book and yellow pages showed a 631 # with the Hauppauge address for both Bus charter and Airport (door-to-door). The 2002-03 Yellow pages shows no listing for either category. The white pages showed the Hauppuge address with 718-656-7000 as its number.....Guess the Stewart family is no longer involved with the company.
BTW - don't see too many Winston vans on the road and I think that they are out of the charter business as well. At one time they had a fleet of about a dozen MC-9's and Prevosts. Then for a while they were calling the buses COACH AMERICA just before the arrival of CUSA. I guess that Harran is the proverbial 900 pound gorilla of the business on LI
I went down to Seaside Height last night, and on the highway off exit 82 on the Garden State Parkway, I saw a few RTSs operated by Lori Transportation (I think that is the correct name).
These RTSs seemed to be ex-NYCTA buses, since they had the emergency amber lights on each side of the destination. The destination sign seemed to be a roll sign modification, since the rear of the buses had an electronic route sign, not in operation.
Are these NYC buses?
If they are, anyone know the numbers of the buses?
They seemed to be all hard seaters. Also, they had the RTS run signs in the front of the bus, which they had signed to the actual bus number. One number I remember is 505.
Thanks.
Saw an article in Friday's Newsday about Atlantic Exp. filing for bankruptcy protection :-(
- Some other details: They are since 1964, orig. based in SI; have contracts with 149 school districts, 7.500 (total ?) viechles; "group" is made up of 60 affiliates.
- business: handicapped & mentialy disabled; pre-K; schools; charter; tours & those nycDOT routes on SI.
HI Thurston:
I gather you did not get my message from last Wednesday (titled, "HEY THURSTON"). Take a look.
Larry Hanley had fought tough battles to obtain the majority of express routes in Staten Island to no avail. So much for the "competetiveness" of private franchises, eh?
At least with NYCT, you know the route will be there tomorrow. Whether the operators are there is another issue...lol
JK!
Started off on the B1 and connected with the B64. Both buses were NOVABUS express buses. In fact, i think i caught the highest 9300 that UP has running. Got to 86th Street and 4th Avenue, hoping to catch #468 on the S79 but wound up with #6349 instead to the mall. I had a chance to see the following RTS buses while travelling:
8307-repowered
8310-repowered
8295-repowered
8309-not repowered
once at the mall, tried getting upstairs to copy runs for all yukon routes, but could not. Did see work going on at the park-n-ride on Arthur Kill Road and Richmond Ave. Is it to ake it larger to hold buses?
after the mall, caught the S61 to the S93 back to Bay Ridge. Once in bay ridge, took the B64 home. Nice trip, but wish my last bus was air conditioned.
B1-9332-NOVABUS
B64-9340-NOVABUS
S79-6349-Orion V
S61-6340-Orion V
S93-6294-Orion V
B64-7531-Reman.
Arthr Kill Rd never was a park-and-ride. It was simply a bus layover/turnaround area. The construction currently underway is to build a new park-and-ride facility, which should open by the end of the year.
-Hank
Can anyone tell me why SEPTA put the side destination sign on the NABI's in front of the rear door, instead of behind the front door like all of the other buses?
it's probaly becouse it's easier to see.
I believe that there was a post on bustalk regarding the composition of the numbers and letters in that rollbox thingy near the doors on a bus, and how to break it down to get lots of information ( run number. etc.). Could someone post information about this ID number?
Thanks in advance.
BTW, why doesn't NYCT use the electronic version of the sign like NJT does in their MCI cruisers ?( sweet ride, although the engine is a bit loud, very comfortable. Suggested improvements: Illuminate overhead buttons at night, the bus is very dark.)
You are talking about the run number box. This tells ( as far as NJT goes ) what piece of work you are doing so that you can be identified from other buses. Road supervisors use this when they are sitting at a certain timepoint to monitor how late/early/crowded the buses are. I believe that everything NJT has ordered after the Flx Metro B series have electronic run # boxes , which helps especially if you do a couple of different runs using the same bus.
Troy
Fairview Garage.
I believe these are correct, but it's been a while! Any corrections or additions would be appreciated:
The first digit describes the type of service.
0 and 1 for normal service. 2 and above explained below.
The second and third numbers indicate the run number.
According to official regulation, all runs must use the full 3-digit code, although many do not follow the rule.
001 - Run 1 on whatever line the bus is designated.
101 - Run 1 split between two depots.
201 - ?
301 - Miscellanious Run 1
401 - ?
501 - Express Run 1
601 - ?
701 - As Assigned Run 1
801 - ?
901 - ?
X01 - Extra Run
XXX - Maintenance Use
Thanks for your input Brooklyn67, and everyone else! Although I was leaning more towards the NYCT ID number rollbox thingy at the front of the bus, all information is helpful and learning has no boundaries.
Now, does anyone know about the NYCT ID rollbox thingy?
Now, does anyone know about the NYCT ID rollbox thingy?
That's exactly what I explained to you above.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to NJT since you responded to a reply pertaining to NJT.
Tonight, when I was on route 50, I was passed by a WMATA C40LF 2310. Usually, not much passes me, but I chose, since I am a bus enthusiast, to follow the bus to see where it was going and it was going to the Landover Storage lot, apparently after being fueled at Bladensburg. Apparently, these buses do not have govenors on them, because this thing was flying at 70 mph. Well the chase ended at the Landover storage yard. Some of these buses will be stored here until space is made at Bladensburg. While chasing this bus, I saw another one heading in the other direction, heading towards Bladensburg, probably from Montgomery to Bladensburg. I am not sure how many buses will be stored at the storage lot, but it seems some space has been made due to the two Ikaruses being moved out and a couple of the
MANNs have been taking to bus heaven. Oh by the way, the 35' AMG is at the Landover Storage lot also.
How does one get close enough to the buses stored at the Landover storage lots? I've been there once and it seems that I would have to pass through some security checkpoints before being able to get close enough to the buses, unlike Western division.
I didn't go into the gate I just went past it on Pennsy Drive when it turned into the storage lot, which by the way does have a guard stand there,but I stayed on Pennsy Drive while the bus turned into the storage lot.
Is the Landover storage lot the one you can see off the road bridge? It used to be full of wreck damaged and burned up buses that were waiting for a spot in the body shop. If that is the lot it is called Pennsy Center.
Yes that is the one. Today as I passed by the lot, I didn't see that one or any other of them, must have either gone back to Montgomery or Bladensburg.
I didn't think any of WMATA's buses were governed, just because I've pace many of them at speeds above 65 MPH. Ride-On buses seem to be wide open also. I think the slowest WMATA, NJTransit or Ride-On bus will blow any NYCTA bus clear off the road.
Wayne
Wasn't sure if they did, hearing about other transit authourities using them. I would guess they wouldn't based on the buses that use to fly down Sheriff Road when the F14 ran in front of my house.
I really don't think they (WMATA) govenrn their buses, but I'm wrong... they must be set somewhere above 70 MPH. I've paced a Ride-On '99 Orion 5.501 at 73 MPH on I-270.
Wayne
wow that's fast.i don't know that c40lf can go that fast.i thought the highest top speed was 65 for them.
I can't speak on the C40lf buses. However, at WMATA I'm certain that the DD S50 Orions and the Metros w/Cummins and DD S50 regularly reach speeds in the high 60's. Interesting enough - The DD 6V-92TA is the engine I love to hear, but it doesn't seem to be able to push a transit bus with an Allison tranny along quite as fast as the others.
B/O's????
Wayne
DD 6V-92TA engine is always slower than the DDC50 for some reason
The DD6V92's in the Orions seem to be sluggish in take-off and can't seem to go that fast. I rode one on the 7 from Landmark to the Pentagon, and it seem to whine at a high pitch when going above 50mph. At this time the buses were new. The DD50's on the Orions seem to have an easier time going above fifty (the B30 buses seem to prove that). Flxibles with a DD6V92 seem to have better pick up than the Orions with the same engines and seem to go faster also. I don't think you want to take 9652 on any highway, because with a C8.3
this bus at observation seems to be the slowest Orion of them all.
I was looking at my speedometer when following that C40LF, and I too was surprised that I was keeping pace with the bus going at 70mph.
For those who live in or around D.C., have any of you seen this story in today's Washington Post Metro section? For those who have not seen the story , here is a link to it.
Is it easy to find the New Flyer LF in Boston Chinatown area during weekday off-peak period?
Go over to the Silver Line on Washington Street. You'll find all New Flyers on that line. I don't think it runs over to Chinatown.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"What? Ride the Silver Line?"
The northernmost part of the Washington Street part of the route is in Chinatown. The Siver Line buses, which are supposed to be exclusively low-floor CNG New Flyers (6000-6016, I beleive), run north on Washington, west on Temple to the terminal stop, south on Tremont and east on Stuart, where they then proceed south on Washington to Dudley Sqare. One of the attendees on this past weekend's trip to Boston learned that the paint scheme on the New Flyer buses is not painted on; rather, it is wrapped. It sure was good to see something other than a standard white RTS with yellow stripe and black trim on a T-route this trip! (Yes, they do have some ad-wrapped RTS's also.)
This past Saturday I was driving south on Branch Ave (MD Route 5) when I spotted 4384 cruising along at about 70 MPH on the C18 heading toward Waldorf. I didn't realize the C18 operated on weekends.
Wayne
Yeah, that bus runs on Saturdays. Not sure what type of patronage it gets. My friend's father took it once during the week and he was the only one on it from Waldorf to Branch Ave. Probably need more publicity for it. I believe originally it was to serve the St. Charles Town Center, but it turns around right before it.
I've been noticing a lot of buses flying during deadheading lately. Flx Metro D 9820 this morning came barreling down the left lane of Glebe Road right behind me, which is unusual since they just normally hang out in the right lane, but kudos to him.
Man, these buses appear more on other routes than on the B30 itself.
Yes, they do seem to get around quite a bit - which makes them stand ount since the decals/luggage racks make them appear to be dedicated to the B30 line. I've seen quite plenty of Metro-D buses on the 5A recently. I was suprised to find dedicated buses w/high-backed seats assigned to the B30 - because that 5A had already been in operation using regular transit buses. Either way - I think WMATA does an excellent job. Those suits at Jay Street can sure learn from WMATA.
Wayne
I think the difference between the 5A and the B30 is that the B30 is specifically designed for people to use the airport, while the 5A was designed to be used as a reverse commuter service to bring those from DC and other areas to the Dulles area cheaply due to the fact that there are many jobs out there. Its part of a special program with the DC gov't. However, the fare has increased to $2 each way on it because commuters are using it to travel from VA to DC rather than taking the metro, which is now defeating the purpose of having a cheaper alternative for those who cannot afford to get to the jobs out in far flung areas. Thanks to the Yuppies of Herndon and Reston, they have now outnumbered the reverse commuters causing this to become an Express route.
Almost got to ride it today except my plane into Dulles was late and I was not going to wait an hour for it. Next time (hopefully not for some time, I can't stand airplanes).
Can someone tell me what NYC buses STILL IN OPERATION that have been renumbered. I believe the first Orions and some of the 8400s are part of the group. You don't have to mention the remanufactured buses, {the 7000s and 7500s.}
The early batch of the 1993 Orions came in with a then "new" year based numbering system, the first being 93001. I recollect all the express/suburban seating buses came in like this, as did the first batch of transit buses that went to Stengel. I think they got up to the low 93100's when they decided to drop that system and go back to more traditional numbering. 93001 became 101; 93002, 102; and so forth (e.g., 93100 became 200). I think something similar may have happened to the 8400 series RTS's, but I don't really remember; I hope another BusTalker does.
If memory serves correct, 8401 and 8402 were numbered 93501 and 93502 or something like that - I think Trevor may have a pic or someone else has one on their site showing it.
IIRC, the 93xxx numbers were 93001-93096, which were later renumbered to 101-196. Beginning with bus 197, the Orions arrived with three digit numbers.
The questions speaks for itself.
Yes, we are, however I'm focusing majorly on getting the photo galleries up and running to 100% again, I flow with the rosters as time hits me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks a lot!
Went to work today, catching the usual b1 and b64. i found a transfer dated 8/21/02 and it said b8N and the bus number #4872. I know #4854-#4872 are assigned to Ulmer Park and in fact i did see #4871 running on the B6, so was #4872 moved accidentaly to the B8 route or is something else going on. Also, saw #8449 on the B68-ex Flatbush bus i believe.
B1-#9324-NOVABUS
B64-#9098-NOVABUS
Bus 4872 is ENY's lone 4800. The bus was moved from UP in the spring. Why? Only DOB knows.
Mark
have all the Orions been repowered? On Transitalk.org, it has the Orions listed in storage and some list in depots. Are the Orions in storage repowered? Buses like #120, #135, #137, etc. How about the Orions heading to MJQ...are they repowered as well? Thanks in advance!
stengel non-repowered off teh top of my head: 231?, 267, 275, 310, 311 and several of the soft seaters
Add 175 182 195 212 242 247 249 from MCH that have not been repowered.
I think I got them all.
#182 M1
Wait a minute...so #202 is repowered? I think 247 is still not repowered yet...idk...haven't seen it...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Them damn Onions!!"
Yep. 202 is repowered.
#202 M1
Now this is very important, so please follow these directions before answering this question!
1)Go to the MSN TransiTALK community
2)Go to the left column, click on "Messages"
3)At "Messages", click on that link, look for "Bus Clues"
4)lick on that link, you`ll get a question and a picture.
In case anyone (who knows how to post pics on this board) is able to post the picture, please answer the following question:
This bus picture provides clues to the identity of a famous rock star. Also this pic provides trivia clues about this star. Can you identify the star, and figure out the significance of the clues.
I`ll post the answer on Sunday.
On the page http://groups.msn.com/TheTransiTALKCommunity/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=257, I didn't see an image.
Is it my browser, or is the image missing?
Try again. It may be your browser.
The rock star should be Bruce Springsteen and the Thunder Road destination sign is either the title of a song or album. I'm not sure which since I'm not really a Springsteen fan.
4)lick on that link, you`ll get a question and a picture.
I licked it, it tastes like static.
For those who figured out BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, Congratulations! Now here are the answers to the other clues:
THUNDER ROAD - Title of one of his songs
139 - This NJT route runs through his hometown of FREEHOLD, NJ.
His father was a bus driver. I'm not quite sure of the company he worked for. I think he worked for NJT ancestor PUBLIC SERVICE-nee TNJ.
Buses seen today:
2443 and 2427: Were equipped with bike racks
9357: Was on the 13B
2010: Was either on a 11Y or a 38B (most likely a 38B) was seen turning right on 14th Street from H street, going back to Four Mile Run. Either way would have been strange, based on the fact that the 11Y runs from Royal and the 38B usually uses the special 38B type buses, with the red bus-o-rama banners
4212: Ran on the 52. This is the first time I have seen an ex-Southeast 4200 series running on a 14th Street garage route.
9777: This is the "why is this bus here", because this bus is currently at Four Mile Run and was on 11th Street going north.
Just another update on the B13/B18 combination. On any Fresh Pond bus you can pick up a flyer which explains the route changes for the B13, it also has a small map which shows you how it will look like.
On a side note I just did my farewell trip for the B18. I started with the Q55 because I wanted enjoy some R143 on the L-Line, then from Palmetto St., I took the B13 to Jamaica Av./Cresent St. to ride the B18 at the beginning, and took it to Graham Av.(there were only 5 people who Rode it the entire trip! and that includes me). At Graham Av. I waited for 30 minutes to get another one, so I had smoked a cig and hung around the Graham Av. Station watching L Trains go by. Then I took same path to get back home. This time on the B18 there were only 4 people!(entie length)
So it was Q55, B13, B18, B18, B13, Q55.
Also, they already put posts about the B47 change on Brooklyn buses.
-
Q55- RTS #9587
B13- RTS #5065
B18- RTS #9176
B18- RTS #9602
B13- RTS #5065(twice)
Q55- RTS #5059
Sept. 8, the day I will witness the death of the original B13.
Yeah I picked up the B47 brochures. It doesnt explain much except that the it replace the B40 and B78. As for the routing around the Sutter-Rutland Rd station, it looks like the Kings Plaza bound buses will make a right onto ENY Ave from Ralph Ave then left onto E.98St to Rutland Rd then follow the B78 route. Im not too sure about the northbound direction.
After midnight this morning, rode 4699 on the B57, run 20 on his last trip. The B13/18 poster was in Spanish only, no English.
On 8158 on the Q54 11:40 trip out of Bridge Plaza;the sign was in both english and spanish
Along Elderts Lane and Linden Blvd, there yellow signs warning cutomers not to wait for the B13 there. Come 9-8, though itll be a different story. I hope the B13 gets extended southbound into Gateway Ctr. Rumors have it that parts of the mall is supposed to open up sometime mid to late Sept.
Honestly, I like the B13 better going on Cresent St. after Linden Blvd. to get to Spring Creek. The new path around Elderts La. is going to take longer, plus it might delay the B13, and I don't won't that to cause problems for it. The B13 is an excellent route with very few problems, I really hope I never see two buses back-to-back when all these changes are made.
I think the Home Depot is suppose to open next month, along with another store.
-
On Sept. 8, I will witness the death of the original B13.
While the new service on Bushwick Ave. in time should result in an increase in ridership, traffic on that street and motorists blocking bus stops as well as a difficult turn at Bushwick/Flushing could make schedule adherence on the new B13 route problematical.
Do You Have A Good Location For Watching Buses?
Mine is College Avenue At University Drive On The Arizona State University Campus
The Following Route Fq. Run Weekdays (5Am - 2 Am)
Yellow Line 2 Bph (Terminal)
30 University 4/8 BPH
44 44th Street/Tatum 2 BPH (Terminal)
56 Priest Drive 2/4 BPH (Terminal)
65 Mill/Kyrene Road 2 BPH (Terminal)
66 Mill Avenue/68th Street 4/8 BPH
72 Rural/Scottsdale Road 4/8 BPH
76 Miller Road 2 BPH (Terminal)
81 McClintock/Hayden Road 4/8 BPH (PT Terminal)
92 Guadalupe Rd/48th Street 2/4 BPH (Terminal)
Flash Foward/Back 12 BPH
Neighborhood Shuttle E/W 12 BPH
------
72 In Service BPH Peak
Man Artics (70xx), GM/TMC RTS (44xx, 45xx), NABI 40ft LF (60xx - 6299), NABI 45ft LF (63xx), Neoplan LF (4001), New Flyer LF40 (37xx & 4002 - 4057) El Dorado National 30/35 Ft LF (41xx - 43xx), El Dorado National 35 Ft (2901 - 2932), 20 Passenger LF Electric Shuttle (Manf Unknown) (1001 -1005) can be spotted thoughout the day.
What Are Your Fav. Bus Spotting Locations?
Not that it's my favorite, but as a possible recommendation to the board, if you stand at Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd, when you cross Qns Blvd there is an overpass. Stand on that overpass somewhere, and you'll see NYC buses as well as private buses. It's especially interesting at rush hour.
I usually do bus spotting during the PM rush hour. In NYC - I'd often start at Herald Sq, walk east along 34th Street to 5 Ave and stand there. Depending on how much time I had to spare (and weather conditions) I'd walk north along 5th Ave to 57th Street, then east and stand at 57th & Madison.
Other places were along Jamaica Ave, between Sutphin and Merrick, Parsons/Archer, 165th Street Terminal, 169th to 179th along Hillside Ave, 181st/Bway, West Farms Square, Westchester Square, Hugh J. Grant Circle and along Fordham Road.
In the DC area - Metro stops at Silver Spring, Pentagon, Rockville, Shady Grove, Naylor Road, Rosslyn.
And... of course near the depots during peak pull out/pull in times.
Wayne
[Do You Have A Good Location For Watching Buses? Mine is College Avenue At University Drive On The Arizona State University Campus]
Funny you should mention that! I was at that exact spot watching buses on Friday, July 26th! Unfortunately, I didn't get quite the variety you list during the time I was there - no artics, RTS's, 2900 El Dorados and certainly not 4001. A few comments: (1) Technically, you can't see the Flash buses there - you have to walk to the other end of College; (2) Are you sure the 63xx buses are 45-footers? I saw plenty of 6300's up to arount 6360 and thought they were 40 footers. I'll have to re-check my photos when I get home; (3) While I didn't see any RTS's in Tempe, I was surprised at how many I saw in Phoenix itself. Can't quite figure out what Valley Metro got rid of when it received the most recent 75 new buses; (4) It was great to see the RTS in the exhibit alongside the Crown Coach and Toronto PCC downtown - looks nice in the old Phoenix Transit paint scheme.
Flash buses on tuesday Were on detour On college due to construction on stadium but for some reason the 44, 72, and 81's were making the stadium loop? Neoplan was used as an employee Shuttle Parked NW Corner College/University. In a normal day you would see these buses On College Avenue/University & Stadium/5th Street. RTS are mostly assigned to routes 24, 41, 44, 50, 60, 80, 90, 106, 122. 138, 170 & 186. Valley Metro New Flyers & RTS Are slowly being retired or sold off. In 1996 Valley Metro set fleet standards system wide for all contracting members. the standards are Alt Fuel (Electric, Hybreds, cng, lng ect) No Disel Or Unleaded fuels & at least Low Floor front to rear door. No Steps! Valley Metro Phoenix Transit & Laidlaw Divisons Still Have Disel & Step Buses. Tempe Is temperary using unleaded 15 passenger vans for the neighborhood shuttle service until the recive the full order of 22 electric shuttles (They have 6 now) the new flyers are Disel.
i wound up working on 3rd Ave and 43rd st today(i was a guy dressed as a letter "C" so if any drivers saw odd things on that area, it was me.
I had a chance to observe mostly 4349 running on the M101 as well as 4461. Did see QS Orion V #517 die out on 44th Street and 3rd Avenue. Luckily, there was a repair truck behind him and helped push him off to the side. Also caught sight of #6359 on the M101. Not bad viewing but cant beleive Manhattanville is getting stuck with junk.
B31-#8142-TMC
The NYC Bus Depot by Depot Roster has been updated at TransiTALK. Also FOUR new galleries have opened up:
Command Bus
New York Bus Service
Transport of Rockland
S M A R T (Michigan)
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Took a mental health day yesterday, figuring I'd devote it to riding some LI BUS routes I'd never been on- especially the N21 between Roslyn and Glen Cove. Mindful of long headways and intended connections, I downloaded schedules of numerous routes.
Dropped the car off for servicing at dealer on Hillside Avenue between Queens & Sutphin around 7:30. Rode 9300-series Q43 until horrible smell of someone's breakfast drove me off at 187th Street. Figured I'd get the first eastbound LI bus to New Hyde Park Road to connect with the northbound N25, a longtime personal missing link.
Saw N22 coming, but presence of other buses in the stop- a Q17 and 36-prompted driver to pass right by. Some people ran to catch up with him at the next stop at 188th, but he had the green light and no one was flagging him down there. In cases of stops served by multiple routes and occupied by other buses, aren't drivers supposed to slow down and check to see if anyone's waving them down? They don't always along Main Street, Jamaica Avenue, Fulton Street and many Manhattan avenues on which multiple routes operate.
Boarded N6 that soon followed, AND stopped despite THREE buses already in the stop- a Q2 and two 17s. Fast ride to Franklin Square. Got northbound N25 whose announcements were turned off. Stopped at NHP station crossing by outbound train from which many people boarded. Most got off along the rush-hour only detour through the Lake Success office park. It seemed funny riding a huge Orion through a long series of interconnected parking lots. Most other passengers got off along Community Drive, especially at the hospital.
The schedule indicated I could get the 9:26 outbound N21 at Great Neck station with five minutes to spare. The next one wouldn't be for another hour. Nature's call and an excruciatingly long time to turn left onto Northern prompted me to get off at Lakeville where I'd have ample time to use the facilities at Seven Seas diner while the 21 made its detour in and out of Great Neck.
While waiting at the stop at the SE corner of Northern & Lakeville (which clearly indicated the N21 to Glen Cove stopped there), I saw Bus 199 signed as the 21 to Glen Cove turn left on Middle Neck right on schedule. A few minutes later, it returned to Northern right on schedule (and only half full) and got stopped for the red light, which allowed plenty of time for the driver to see me and two women waving him down. Since the 20 and 25 also stop there, we made a point of signalling we specifically wanted this particular bus.
The light turned green, the bus turned left and zipped right past us without even slowing down! We stood there for a second in shock. I saw the bus get stopped for traffic a few feet up, so ran after him. Passengers on the bus appeared to be yelling and motioning for the driver to stop. The jam let up just in time for him to pull away again. Furious, I returned to the stop to make note of LI BUS' phone number. I called it several times and waded through several menus only to hear a "busy, please try again later" recording. Never got a live person. Good thing this wasn't a pay phone.
I lent one of the women my cell phone to call her employer, who apparently couldn't care less. From what I could see, she got canned on the spot, because she started crying and emoting to the other woman in Spanish. Angry as I was, her situation much worse.
I felt I had to report this driver's inexplicable, inexcusable actions in person, since telephoning seemed utterly futile. Having recalled seeing dispatchers at Great Neck station in the past, I hiked up there hoping I could report this to a live body. There were none, and I just missed a 20 to Hicksville. So I took the 9:52 train to Port Wash where I could get the 23. (The ticket I bought was never collected, but had I not bought one they surely would've come around- oh well, that's a Subtalk matter!)
Got the 23 without any trouble. The schedule indicated I could connect at Roslyn station for the 27, which would take me directly to LI BUS Mitchel Field headquarters. Why shouldn't I take this to the top? The 23 was vexingly slow along what should have been a fast ride down Port Wash Boulevard, and an accident between the hospital and Northern bogged us down further. So naturally we got to Roslyn station just in time to see the 27 pull out. I stayed on the 23 to Mineola and then got the 24 to Mitchel.
I went in the main entrance of the 'Levy Facility' and spoke with the receptionist behind bullet-proof glass. He gave me a card with the same phone number that did me absolutely no good earlier. Short of writing a letter, calling was the only way I could post my complaint.
Walking outside in disgust, I saw a door by the garage outside which several drivers were having a smoke. I asked them if there was anyone I could speak to. One driver was sympathetic and willing to hear me out. He agreed that there was no excuse for a driver to pass a stop whether there were other buses in it or not; and that a driver should never pass people clearly signalling at a stop unless the bus was full. Being behind schedule is no excuse. In this case, the bus was NOT full and the bus WAS on schedule. The driver 'being only human' or 'having a bad day' is not an acceptable excuse either.
This driver promised to report the incident. He was impressed that I remembered the bus number and knew by the schedule what time it left Flushing. I was advised to write a letter anyway. What good it'll do, I don't know. If it's anything like writing to the TA, I'd probably just get a meaningless form letter in return. But I felt better having taken this incident directly to the facility. I must be getting cantankerous in my old age- turning 43 next week.
So I walked back to Roosevelt Field and through the long, dark parking garage from the bus station to the mall itself- THAT must be fun to navigate on weekends when the garage is full of slowly moving cars! After eating at Wendy's for the first time (and getting an upset stomach later), I got a 22 to Cantiague Park on the Westbury-Hicksville border. After cooling off in the pool for a couple hours, at 3:30 I got a 22 all the way back to 179th Street, and then the F train to Sutphin. The 22 took about 1:20, factoring in heavy boarding crowds at Mineola station and along Hillside. A hoped-for speedy run in Queens was dashed by there apparently being the same number of passengers as (discharge-only) stops within city limits- and one person getting off at each stop!
After all this, I'm glad to be back at work, which is more than I can say for that poor woman who got passed along with me. I'll write a letter to LI BUS but don't know if it'll do any good.
P.S: Every LI Bus I rode was an Orion, although several 600-series Gilligs were seen on the N6 and Nassau Hub shuttles.
[Every LI Bus I rode was an Orion, although several 600-series Gilligs were seen on the N6 and Nassau Hub shuttles.]
The Gilligs, which were in the 500's, are all gone from LI Bus. The 600 series are diesel Orion V's, except for the highest ten numbers, which are the original CNG's LI Bus received.
In reading your adventures for the day, one can only start to understand why the majority of Long Island people on the move insist on using their cars and would never in a million years consider taking public buses.
I hope you have better luck with your letter writing than I did. A couple of months ago, I was waiting for a westbound N20 or N21 at the bus stop on Northern Boulevard and Wensley Drive, which is just west of Middle Neck Road. It was about 5:30 P.M., and I waited 15 minutes before a bus finally made the right turn from Middle Neck Road onto Northern Boulevard. There's a bus stop immediately after he made the turn, which is visible from where I was standing, and he stopped there and picked up passengers. As the bus then approached my location, I signaled for the driver to stop, and he waved me off and kept right on going. As the bus went by, I noted that inside there were about eight people standing, and nobody at all standing rearward of the exit door. I was furious. It was then another eight minutes until the next bus came, and this one did stop, even though it was even more crowded than the first one had been. I had noted the number of the bus that had passed me by, and the time, and I wrote a letter to the address given on the MTA website for Long Island Bus. In my letter, I complained about the long wait time, AND about the driver passing me by when his bus was not full.
I did get a letter in return, but its content just made me even angrier. The author thanked me for advising the agency of the long wait for the bus, and stated that the agency was studying headways to see what service improvements could be made. No mention was even made about the driver who passed me by! It was as if it was a form letter sent to people who complain about long wait time.
the 600 series are not Gilligs. They are Orion V. Gilligs are the 500's series.
Somebody should alert Howard Fein that Qtraindash7 has taken over his account and is posting under his name! First the complaints about the N20/21 -- then he gives himself away by having lunch at Wendy's.
Seriously, though. I've never had the problems on LI Bus that others describe -- and those problems that others have seem to happen more often than not on the N20/21. Are those routes the bottom of the barrel as far as picks go and therefore prone to inexperienced drivers?
CG
No, it really IS me. I don't ride LI BUS for fun nearly as often as the NYC buses- and when I have, there haven't been any problems. That's why I felt compelled to post this episode. In fact, every LI bus I rode arrived right on schedule- plus the one that passed me.
The only reason I lunched at Wendy's was because I hadn't had it for many years and was curious. I don't know if the stomach upset was caused by that or the overall aggravation of what had happened. Anyway, the food court at Roosevelt Field didn't have an Arthur Treacher, Nathans, Roy Rogers (R.I.P.) or White Castle; Ben's is outrageously expensive; there was a long line at Sbarro's; I always leave Burger King hungrier than I am entering; and I'd had Chinese the night before.
The 20 and 21 might be less desirable routes due to their length, and hence assigned to newer drivers (just like new teachers are assigned to schools in the poorest neighborhoods). Maybe the driver thought he didn't have to stop at Northern & Lakeville eastbound after the Great Neck Station detour. But shouldn't he KNOW he's supposed to?
I would think the 22 is among the least desired routes among drivers. There's the unholy congestion around Roosevelt Field (and a lengthy detour in and out via East Gate); the serving of a second mall in Hicksville; having to share inner Hillside Avenue with as many as 14 other routes (between Merrick and 188th); people boarding in Queens who think they can get off in Queens-
Surprised I haven't heard from Qtrandash7 yet. John, are you out there?
[Every LI Bus I rode was an Orion, although several 600-series Gilligs were seen on the N6 and Nassau Hub shuttles.]
The Gilligs, which were in the 500's, are all gone from LI Bus. The 600 series are diesel Orion V's, except for the highest ten numbers, which are the original CNG's LI Bus received.
In reading your adventures for the day, one can only start to understand why the majority of Long Island people on the move insist on using their cars and would never in a million years consider taking public buses.
I hope you have better luck with your letter writing than I did. A couple of months ago, I was waiting for a westbound N20 or N21 at the bus stop on Northern Boulevard and Wensley Drive, which is just west of Middle Neck Road. It was about 5:30 P.M., and I waited 15 minutes before a bus finally made the right turn from Middle Neck Road onto Northern Boulevard. There's a bus stop immediately after he made the turn, which is visible from where I was standing, and he stopped there and picked up passengers. As the bus then approached my location, I signaled for the driver to stop, and he waved me off and kept right on going. As the bus went by, I noted that inside there were about eight people standing, and nobody at all standing rearward of the exit door. I was furious. It was then another eight minutes until the next bus came, and this one did stop, even though it was even more crowded than the first one had been. I had noted the number of the bus that had passed me by, and the time, and I wrote a letter to the address given on the MTA website for Long Island Bus. In my letter, I complained about the long wait time, AND about the driver passing me by when his bus was not full.
I did get a letter in return, but its content just made me even angrier. The author thanked me for advising the agency of the long wait for the bus, and stated that the agency was studying headways to see what service improvements could be made. No mention was even made about the driver who passed me by! It was as if it was a form letter sent to people who complain about long wait time.
Throughout we have been talking about bus routes that were rerouted for the better or worse and bus route proposals that never got off the ground due to various reasons. Well, I'm trying to figure out what were some or all the bus route proposal the MTA thought about? Like for example,
1)The expansion of the Q44
2)Re-route the Q1
3)Discontinue the M3
Like that, what were some of the proposals the MTA-NYCT dealt with? BIG AL told me that the NYCT was considering swapping the Q31 for the Q4 between JAM and QV. Stuff like that. Thanks in advance.
the 600 series are not Gilligs. They are Orion V. Gilligs are the 500's series.
Awhile back, one of our regular contributors was looking for an N-scale Flxible Metro, which I had and sold to him.
I did mention in the thread that I knew of some other N-scale buses...that they were "supposed to be" Flxible Metro's but looked awful.
I finally found some pictures of them -- someone is auctioning a pair of them at EBay. Yep, they look every bis as awful as I remember when I saw them in my N-scale dealer's shop a couple years ago.
The EBay item numbers are:
1759499654
1759500249
I am not the seller, I don't even know who the seller is. Just thought y'all might wanna see how bad those resin-cast models are!
Steve, I did indeed buy one from you; thank you for your help on it. Not perfect by any means, but good enough for my house. I thought it was a soft metal as opposed to resin?
-Fred
The one I sold you was a white metal kit by Pirate Models and with a little bit of work, could look great. I'm sure you could do it -- my eyes just can't handle anything that small.
The ones I described in the original post of this thread were cast resin and looked like crap. They don't even look like Metros -- they look more like some third-world country junker.
Oh? Where did you ever find resin Flxes? Are they still available, and were they all "N" scale?
Also, as far as the Pirate 870 I have goes, I am seriously debating on whether to make it an accurate microscale model or to leave it as-is to go with my novelty Dodge Dart-shaped Monopoly piece. Just think...I could play "Grummanopoly"....LOL!!!
-F.
I posted the EBay item numbers where there are pictures of those resin buses. I don't know where to find them. I only saw a real unpainted one once at my N-scale dealer. They looked like shit, so I passed. Never saw another once since except the listed ones on EBay.
WOW! How could those be Flxible Metro's? If you hadn't told me what they were suppose to be, I would have never guessed what it was.
Told ya they were bad!!!!!
The manufacturer advertised them as "Metro" buses.
Today's bus sightings:
2415, 2420, 2421: Have bike racks
9344: On the A15, an ex-Bladensburg bus. This might solve Landover's
bus shortage.
Observation yesterday I forgot to mention was that 2399 seemed to have been stuck in the kneeling position, because it seemed lower than it normally does.
4212: Is running on 14th Street routes. This bus is dedicated to U.S.
Park police officer Hakim Farthing, who was the unfortunate victim of a drunk driver, August 10, 2002. This bus has dedication advertisements around the bus. I am not sure if there are any more dedications inside of the bus and also if this bus will run from other bus garages. The officer was ONLY 29 and the lady (I use that term lightly) was not even old enough to drink.
Re: 4212...
It might only be operating out of that particular garage, but then again, I really can't admit to knowing the details about where the accident occured. In any event, that's a real nice move by WMATA.
Where can I find a photo of 4212?
-F.
The accident happened near the Prince George's County/D.C. line, on the BW Parkway. He was trying to set up a roadblock there because of an earlier fatal accident. A twenty year old drunk driver ran through the barriers and hit the officer, killing him almost instantly. I think this bus is based at 14th Street, but could be based at Bladensburg and run through certain downtown routes throughout the city. Some of Southeast's 4200s are now based out of Bladensburg, as well as some at Montgomery and Four Mile Run.
I have been monitoring this site for a little while and have found that BLX is about the only one who uses wit & humor to make this site interesting. BLXs' comments on mass transit is refreshing, like a cool breeze on bus 2010 in the summer of '79. I believe BLX to be the enlightened word on mass transit and look foward to more of his insights, two dollars I make you holler, and his forward looking ideas for not only bus matters but for society as a whole. The late and great John Lennon once said "the Beatles are bigger than Jesus", I believe BLX is bigger than the Beatles.
I like BLX. He's cool!
I'd love to compare IP's between Black Jack and BLX. Anyone else believe they are the same person?
BLX knew there were transit purists like Mr. Jack that could feel the writings of BLX. No, BLX and Mr. Jack are not one and the same. The positive vibrations that is brought forth by BLX can only be appreciated by those of higher intelligence, like Mr. Jack. People that aren't afraid to speak the truth, no matter that it isolates others posting here. BLX has 25 years transit experience and plenty of worldly knowledge. BLX will continue to speak of issues that effect our life. BLX knows that there are fans of the original TV Batman, those that are enchanted by the talents of Jamaica St. Croix and watching The 3 Stooges (Curly and sometimes Shemp). Cheers to Mr. Jack and let's hope that he can withstand the pressures of speaking truth for justice and the American way. Mr. Jack does it right! BLX is out. Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, life goes on.
i feel you.... i feel you. keep it real.
I am indifferent to BLX, but the purpose of this forum is to exchange information about transit, not to be regaled with wit and humor. I dabble in writing and can certainly dole out wit and humor myself, but I participate in this forum because I am thirsty for discussion about transit, not to read elaborate, embellished, conceited writing. Please don't put down the rest of us because our posts say only what they need to say...
BLX thanks you for responding, when others sit back and say nothing. Let it be known that BLX puts down no one. If your enjoyment is standing on a corner and writing down bus numbers and then posting it, well. But is that discussion? When BLX posts that he feels a same time opening for new depots 100th Street & West Farms, probably around June, no one discussed it. Is that transit related? BLX reminds you and everyone else, what happens in the corporate world affects us and mass transit! Those young wall streeters with MBA's don't ride the bus and couldn't care less if those that truly need mass transit had it. That also needs to be discussed, how the trickle down of the CEO's stealing billions of your pension funds causes transit industry to lose funding. It goes in a cycle. But the poor soul who needs to go 10 miles within Long Island must take 3 buses and the trip takes 2 hours. Doesn't that need to be discussed? Wake up America and follow the lead of Mr. Jack. He knows, he feels the soul of BLX.
BLX, are you riding through the woods on a BMX while we discuss these things? Those kinds of discussions go on all the time. Many conversations sprout from others, including the "bus number" conversations. All are valid on this board.
By the way, the movement of a 635x bus is not the same as the movement of a 12x bus? Why? 635x buses are hybrid-electrics and some of their components are a little different. It may indicate that the mechanics at a depot are going to learn it because they are getting more in the near future. 12x movements may may someone is down an express bus and these will protect the service. Large amount of movements could mean service changes in the future. In order to reach a higher level of transit knowledge, one must be able to spot the beginnings of change.
Of course, if you feel that your intellectual needs are not being met, you can always post a question or scenario for feedback. Do you want to chat about the RCV system NYSDOT is trying to set up on Long Island? Post something and maybe we can, as the RCV situation stems from the lack of serious mass transit on Long Island.
Oh, by the way, when transit agencies learn to appeal to ALL incomes with transit service, the MBAs will get on. That's the only reason why the X90 and X92 still exist...those same MBA types who were riding since the days of the Avenue B bus company.
Somebody should alert Howard Fein that Qtraindash7 has taken over his account and is posting under his name! First the complaints about the N20/21 -- then he gives himself away by having lunch at Wendy's.
Seriously, though. I've never had the problems on LI Bus that others describe -- and those problems that others have seem to happen more often than not on the N20/21. Are those routes the bottom of the barrel as far as picks go and therefore prone to inexperienced drivers?
CG
No, it really IS me. I don't ride LI BUS for fun nearly as often as the NYC buses- and when I have, there haven't been any problems. That's why I felt compelled to post this episode. In fact, every LI bus I rode arrived right on schedule- plus the one that passed me.
The only reason I lunched at Wendy's was because I hadn't had it for many years and was curious. I don't know if the stomach upset was caused by that or the overall aggravation of what had happened. Anyway, the food court at Roosevelt Field didn't have an Arthur Treacher, Nathans, Roy Rogers (R.I.P.) or White Castle; Ben's is outrageously expensive; there was a long line at Sbarro's; I always leave Burger King hungrier than I am entering; and I'd had Chinese the night before.
The 20 and 21 might be less desirable routes due to their length, and hence assigned to newer drivers (just like new teachers are assigned to schools in the poorest neighborhoods). Maybe the driver thought he didn't have to stop at Northern & Lakeville eastbound after the Great Neck Station detour. But shouldn't he KNOW he's supposed to?
I would think the 22 is among the least desired routes among drivers. There's the unholy congestion around Roosevelt Field (and a lengthy detour in and out via East Gate); the serving of a second mall in Hicksville; having to share inner Hillside Avenue with as many as 14 other routes (between Merrick and 188th); people boarding in Queens who think they can get off in Queens-
Surprised I haven't heard from Qtrandash7 yet. John, are you out there?
Any comments is appreciated.
who cares. all i know is wait till people are sitting on 86 street and 18 avenue for the relief`s to be made.
How will the reliefs be done ? 65 th sreet N train ?
reliefs will be at 86th street and 18th avenue. drivers will use w train to the relief point.
With the B8 bus going to Jackie Gleason Depot starting September 8th, does anyone know on how many more buses will Jackie Gleason receive & what buses will Jackie Gleason receive along with the number of the buses.
Jackie Gleason wil receive 15,786 new Gilligs which will have to be sent to the moon to be parked.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yes, and Alice will probably be on one of those buses.... =P
HOPEFULLY so....
Peace,
ANDEE
Jackie Gleason Depot will get back all of the 4600's/4700's that they dumped in Fresh Pond and East New York, because JG feels bad that those depots are killing those buses.
Or better yet, their going to get Artics. That's right, Gun Hill is nice enough to give JG some their artics, so Brooklyn residents can finally enough what the Bronx gets.
Or how about JG getting MCI's? That's right, Yukon Depot wouldn't mind losing some of their MCI's to help out JG. So the B8 riders are going to get nice comfortable seats for now on!
Now how's that for SARCASM!!!
Replace the word "enough" with "have"
IF Fresh Ponds and East New York Depots maintenace is that poor why are there not heads rolling over there if not at the union mechanic level at the mangement level
any additional information would be greatly appreciated, 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
i hear that gleason is to receive buses from d.c..
Yeah, I heard that too....NOT
Peace,
ANDEE
I thought it was Japan's dobble deckers, or was it was it the Cable Cars from San Fransico.
Robert
If they're going to be at JG wouldn't they be Mack's or old look GM's
i hear they are getting hybrids at gleason,.... NOT
These questions I posed myself some time ago, and we are waiting for someone 'in the know' at the TA to come back with offical info.
It's obvious to assume with the B8's traffic load that JG will be getting extra buses, and they won't be CNG LF's, but rather RTS from ENY. This is a GUESS, but it's LIKELY.
1986 RTS's from Triboro Coach.
Hello everyone; I am returning from vacation and visiting my family, which is why you have not heard from me. This time, everything went well with Greyhound as far as service, etc...until today.
My bus was scheduled to leave Grand Rapids, MI at 8:35 AM. As a result, I got there almost an hour ahead of time to avoid delays. Unfortunately, the bus did not even pull up until 9 AM; it was to get into Detroit at 11:55 AM to allow me to catch the bus south, which left at 12:15 PM. Unfortunately, the next bus pulled out before I even got off the other!
Alarmed, I went to the Information booth; those guys were no road map and as I asked them what to do, they began to get surly with me and said I was stuck there for severa hours. From there, I went over to the ticket counter; the lady was more courteous but could not do much as the next bus won't be here till 8 PM but changed the ticket over at no charge, which is good.
With a few hours to burn, I decided to check my e-mail and found out I could ride the DDOT to the main library via 53/Woodward. I boarded RTS no. 3834; what a difference in smoothness the Series 50 has in those over the Gilligs at home. I also liked the groovy green cloth inserts on the fiberglass seats. So here I am; hello again, BusTalk.
And now, time for me to discover Detroit...for a little while.
-Fred
Hey folks...still stuck here in Motor City. I just checked out a busfan website full of DDOT/SMART info, and it turns out the RTS I rode down here to the library (3834) is a brand new 2002 model...one of the last ever made!
What a cool addition to my vacation. It is very rare that I get to ride any RTSes since I live in a Gillig town and nearby Blacksburg retired theirs for New Flyers. I just rode a piece of bus history!
Speaking of New Flyers, I would have to say the LFs look much better than the high floor model. More on my travel bus notes later.
-F.
[it turns out the RTS I rode down here to the library (3834) is a brand new 2002 model...one of the last ever made!]
It is possible that some additional new RTS's are still to be delivered to Detroit and/or Dallas. Although the announcement of the RTS production shut-down came many months back, it indicated current contracts would be fulfilled. One or both of those cities are due RTS buses, perhaps through as late as 2003.
Just came back from Dallas a week ago. From what I could gather by my observations DART is still getting RTS buses in. The new batch I saw on the roads did not have the air conditioners on the roofs like the original order of new RTS'.
Wow...how neat. The DDOT (Detroit) buses all have them, at least the 3800 series (2002 models).
-F.
2001-2002 DDOT RTSs (3700-3859) do have roof-mounted air conditioning - I believe the first factory installation of roof-mounted a/c on a standard front door RTS-06. All other current DDOT RTSs (3200-3232, 3250-3282, 3290-3299, 3500-3618) have the more common, rear-mounted a/c.
Actually, RTSes came with those for NYCTA as far back as 1981...can anyone verify this? They were not 06 models but that was the first application that I know of.
-F.
Very cool; that's what the driver was telling me on the way back to the Greyhound station. So Detroit will have 2003 RTSes as well...are those replacing the New Flyers? Also, will NYC get any of the last RTSes made? Who else is on board to receive new ones?
-F.
DDOT's New Flyers are from 1993; it's going to be a while before they think about replacing those. The 3800-series 2002 RTSs have replaced certain 2000-series 1989 MCI Classics, and the next bus order (which probably won't be RTSs, will wipe out most of the remaining Classics.
I just found a neat bus for sale there; it is a 1976 Flx New Look 35-footer, formerly of NJ Transit. Very nice bus overall with some rust on the sides, but this is par for the course with these. This one has woodgrain paneling inside; I have never seen this in a New Look. How neat! Did they originally have this in NJ?
The coach no. is 7314; check it out for yourself, the bid is only up to around $700 at last count. BTW, I am not involved with the seller..just thought it was a neat find. Enjoy!
-F.
All 866 Flx New Looks purchased by NJDOT in 1976-77 had woodgrain from the factory. At the time, I thought it was a nice touch. As the buses aged, moisture caused the paneling to swell slightly, and it started to look tacky.
Well yeah, but it can always be redone. It just looks so cool in them...it would really make me feel like I was sitting at home with all that wood paneling!
-F.
Something else that made them look tacky as they aged was the "fogging" of the polycarbonate side windows. It really made them look awful.
Peace,
ANDEE
Polycarbonate...really? They used that stuff all the way back then? I thought it was more of a new thing....I knew they used glass and Plexi (the latter really looks like hell after a few years), but POLY? What did this stuff look like...dark tinted, I suppose?
-F.
Those NJDOT new look Flxibles were simply awesome. A good thing was that this order included buses of different configurations. The most popular were the 53102-8-1 transits and 53096-8-1 suburbans. These suburbans had REAL SUBURBAN features such as a single door, 96 inches wide, high-backed seating on platforms w/ind. reading lamps and overhead racks. I'm not sure but, I think they also had underfloor storage. There were also some 35096-6-1 and 30096-6-1 transits.
Wayne
The suburbans did not have underfloor luggage compartmwents.
Quick correction on the model numbers:
- 53102-8-1 - 40'x102" transits, both single and dual door
- 53096-8-1 - 40'x96" suburbans, single door
- 45102-6-1 - 35'x102" transits, both single and dual door
- 35096-6-1 - 31'x96" transits, single door
The "8" was the Detroit 8V71, the "6" was the 6V71. All had V730 automatics. The units allocated to Transport of New Jersey represented several key changes to their fleet:
- first 102" buses
- first 2-door transits with factory AC (the 500A-539A single door deluxe transits had factory AC - GMC T6M-5306A)
- first and only V8 2-door transits (the 540A-549A deluxe transits were single door V8/automatics - GMC T8H-5306A)
- first suburbans with automatic trans
TNJ only had 53102 2-door transits and 53096 suburbans. None of the other models ran for TNJ; they joined NJT as private companies went under in the 80s.
Wow...so NJ got the first A/C-equipped Flx New Looks?
[so NJ got the first A/C-equipped Flx New Looks?]
No, I think what he said was that this particular order included the first factory-installed A/C transit buses for New Jersey Transit. Lots of other properties received Flxible buses with factory installed A/C prior to 1976. (And NJ Transit received coach and suburban, as opposed to transit, equipment with factory-installed A/C prior to this order.)
Gotcha; I knew there were pre-76es with A/C. So NJT Flx orders do not date backs to the early 1960s?
-F.
Goodness no. Public Service was listed as a co-conspirator back in the 50s with the GMC anti-trust lawsuit. From 1948 to 1971, they purchased nothing but GM buses. The 1976 Flxibles were purchased by the state (NJDOT), and the titles were transferred to NJ Transit when it was formed in 1979.
Some of the confusion probably comes from the fact that there are two NJ Transit entities involved here. NJ Transit Corporation is the state agency that owns routes and equipment. NJ Transit Bus Operations is the operating subsidiary of NJTC that actually runs the service. Public Service changed their name to Transport of New Jersey in 1971. NJTC bought TNJ in 1980, but TNJ kept its name until 1982 when it was changed to NJTBO.
In a nutshell, an "NJT bus" can refer to a bus that was actually operated at NJTBO, but it can also mean a state-purchased bus that was operated by a private company.
Gotcha. So 1976 was the first year NJ received Flxibles?
-F.
That is correct. Flxible was then the exclusive supplier of transit buses through 1994 (new 870s in 1981, new Metros in 1983/1989/1994, and of course the 1980 NYCT rehabs delivered in 1986-88). Flxible actually declined to bid on the 1995 order which resulted in NJT's first RTSes. Flx claimed they were backlogged and couldn't meet del;ivery. The irony there is, had NJT waived the delivery date and given the award to Flx, they would have been out of business before the order would have completed in 1996.
The various Flx orders actually replaced themselves.
1976 Flx transits - replaced by the NYCT rehabs in 1986-88
1976 Flx suburbans - replaced by 1989 Flx Metro suburbans
1981 Flx 870s - replaced by 1994 Flx Metros
The 1983 Flx Metros were replaced by the 1995 Nova RTSes, and most of the 1989s are still on the road - 100 of the 411 units have been replaced by MCI D4000s. With Nova no longer producing the RTS, the smart money os on Neoplan to replace the 1989s next year, as NJT will have experience with them thanks to the new transit and suburban artics coming in a few months.
That would leave just the 1994 Flxs which are in the process of midlife rehab. They should make it to 2009, then they'll be all gone.
[With Nova no longer producing the RTS, the smart money os on Neoplan to replace the 1989s next year, as NJT will have experience with them thanks to the new transit and suburban artics coming in a few months.]
My understanding is that all of the Neoplan artics on order will come in transit configuration; there will be none with suburban seating. The former Volvo suburban artics have been/are to be replaced by 45-foot MCI Cruisers.
While that is what I heard, it doesn't answer completely what will replace the many suburban Volvo's now used out of Fairview garage on the 150's routes.
Fairview is getting 35 of the Artics, according to the bid specs, 35 of the artics is supposed to come in a semi-suburban configuration!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I'm sure that I've seen some 1976-vintage Flxibles into the early to mid-90's. I remember seeing a few particularly on the old P9 (now 709). Of course I was quite young at the time and couldn't give exact details, but this was probably before the 1994 Metro D's arrived.
Hmm...I could see that. We had a few of our 1976 Flxes here left in service until 1994, when more Gilligs arrived. Valley Metro just didn't want to get rid of those things!
if only we were like London or Toronto, where they just rebuild the good old stuff every few years....sigh. Oh well.
-F.
Thanks for the extensive info; wow, Flxes replacing Flxes. We almost had that here, but the Flxible bid came up high, ergo the Gilligs.
This reminds me of an episode of "The Simpsons", where an old grandfather in Shelbyville told of how Springfield got their lemon tree, and he then offers them a nice, reffreshing glass of turnip juice. They all drink it and make a bitter face. In essence, Flxible Metros are lemonade, while the Gilligs are turnip juice. :)
-F.
It's good that NJT brought new life to the NYC rehabs, but why did they start replacing the New Looks after only 10 years?
-F.
GMC New Looks from the 60s were actually still around from both PS/TNJ and quite a few private carriers. The earliest of the rehabs finished off the GMCs, and the latter took care of the Flxibles. NJT got such a great deal on the rehabbed 870s that it wasn't worth extending the life of the New Looks. They basically paid the same price for the 870s that rehabbing the New Looks would have cost, plus NJT by that time had 436 870s and Metros on the road, so the parts were already in house. The NLs, of course, were long out of production by then.
True, but I think everyone on this post will agree in terms of quality and durability, the New Look was a better built bus. Even after Flx corrected the problem with the Metros, they just were not the same.
True that. I like the styling of the 870/Metro and think it is the best-looking of modern buses, but the New Look is my all-time favorite and more of a durable bus.
-F.
But you gotta give those 870's crdeit they lasted one hell of a long time, Even the present Metro B's, those are some great buses, they turn great feel great, hell to me they are GREAT! It is a shame to see them go. I love being behind the wheel of one of those buses every chance I get.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
I feel you there, Tony; I used to drive Metro Bs in Blacksburg and they were my favorite. Most other drivers hated them and preferred the New Flyers, but not me. Gotta go with what you love!
Besides, those things are 16 years old and still in regular service..at least for another year. They have already outlasted a fleet of RTSes that was 2 to 3 years newer than they are.
-F.
Yup I know what you mean Fred, Today I am working the 126 out of Hoboken to New York. When I walk in there today, I am gonna go and grab my Metro B. And................just fly!
Have a good weekend.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Wow...I'd like to live your life for a week. Let's swap lives...you make the model Flxibles for everyone and I'll drive the real ones. LOL!!!
-Fred
LOL..................never I am having too much fun! Driven them is better than making them. LOL.........
Tony M.
So I see; wonder what became of most of the Flx New Looks after that?
-F.
NJT auctions their old buses - they could be anywhere right now. One of the 1989 Eagle 20s is in Florida, still in NJT stripes.
Yup, as f right now they have a couple Flxible Metro B's there and some 9a's and b's.
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
Okey doke...gotta plan a vacation to New Jersey sometime before 2009. Remind me. :)
-F.
Oh, how cool! I would have LOVED to be there to ride the whole fleet. Sounds like a real "flexible" variety of Flxibles!
-F.
Flxible new look #7314 was not a NJ Transit bus, but rather served its life with Red and Tan. I believe it is a 35 footer with only one door. Two of its sisters, 7313 and 7328, made it down to Red and Tan of Boca in Florida. Last time I was down there, 7313 was still being used as a spare in Century Village (Boca Raton) service.
Oh, I see; thanks for the info!
-F.
Parked next to the Flxble appears to be an ex-TA GMC Newlook.
It appears to still have the MTA "M" on it.
I wonder were this photo was taken.
Yes, looks to be a real late GMC NewLook. Perhaps a '74 or a '75.
Hello again; before I sign off one last time from Detroit, I have some questions. While I may not have time today, how possible is it to ride the bus in Toronto while visiting Detroit for a few hours? Also, how far do you have to go in to find the Fishbowls still in service there? Just curious...
-F.
If you are in Detroit, I assume you are talking about riding the bus in Windsor, Ontario, and not in Toronto. That being said, unfortunately I do not know anything about the Windsor buses, but believe there is frequent service between downtown Detroit and Windsor.
Actually, never mind..I'm back in Roanoke now. And whoops, I didn't realize Windsor was closer than Toronto. My bad!
-F.
Started out in Jamaica on the Q6 to the Green Bus Garage. Got lucky on the Q6 and wound up with a MCI Classic,shame the model isnt made anymore. I wonder why Green never got more. Connected to the Q3 to the Flyer loop bus to the train. At 116th Street, got the Q35 to the B100 home. The driver on the Q35 said Green was supposed to get 125 new buses starting in January of 2003. My question is, are these Orion V buses, all for Green liness or are they to be distrubted to all the DOT garages. Also, anyone know the roster for buses assigned to Greens garages at Jamaica and Penninsula?
One more thing: Did see Orion V #5503 in Full wrap at Greens garage along with MCI Classic #716 in full wrap-looks real sharp.
Q6-#713-MCI Classic
Q3-#9564-NOVABUS
A Loop-#101-Flyer
Q35-#643-GMC RTSII-04
B100-#364-GMC RTSII-04
Does Green ever plan on getting CNG's?
Green doesn't plan on anything. NYCDOT decides who gets what. Evidently, NYCDOT hasn't decided that Green should get CNGs, since there are no CNGs assigned to Green by NYCDOT. Whether NYCDOT decides to do so in the future or not is unknown.
David
I had heard (unofficially) that NYCDOT was working with Green many months back to have the main Green depot modified by adding CNG fueling capability, but talks then hit a snag. Don't know what the latest is on it, but Green will probably not get any CNG's from NYCDOT until it can fuel them.
That sounds like a pritty close reading of the facts.
P.S. nycDOT is also trying to get out of the buy CNG only deal they made.
P.P.S. Until the franchise issue is settled I dought nycDOT will be doing much of anything with the Green/CNG issue.
Article in todays Newsday about a cultural and historical sightseeing trolley route in eastern Queens.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-etcov0823.story
If the Orion 7 CNGs are meant to go to JG, why wasn't 7560 delivered there?
Personally, waiting for the B70 on the corner of 8th Avenue and 60 Street is real pain in the butt, because I stand there waiting for this bus, and it takes about 40-50 minutes to wait for that thing. In an hour, there are only 2 buses in one hour. I want the MTA to make at least 4 or 5 Buses per hour serving the route. I don't want to stand there and wait for this bus.
And I want no crime, no pollution, and peace in the world.
[...there are only 2 buses in one hour. I want the MTA to make at least 4 or 5 Buses per hour serving the route. I don't want to stand there and wait for this bus.]
Thing 1: Not everybody is clairvoyant, so could you please elaborate on this? When were you waiting 40-to-50 minutes? What time of day? What day of the week? Which direction?
Thing 2: Are there enough riders on the B70 to justify 4 or 5 trips per hour (i.e. a 12-to-15-minute headway) for the day/time/direction in question? Or should a single "I want" govern everything?
I'm reminded of a politician who publicly complained that his district (low residential density, high auto ownership) somehow got less service than some other areas (with high residential density and low auto ownership). Should high-volume routes get 30-minute headways just for parity with the B70? Or should NYCT waste money by running empty buses every 2 minutes on EVERY route, just to keep the B70's, Q79's, and S42's of the world on a par with the M15 and B41?
knowing how many people ride the b70 off peak, i am surprized the mta hasn`t made it a rush hour only line. the line is a one way line. morning rush then afternoon rush. it also only runs two buses off peak ,much like the b2 and b31 out of flatbush.
Buses have to go back anyway, may as well take fares.
Personally, the only 'Outrageous' thing about that post is your grammar.
The B70 is a nothing line. Dropping your $1.50 in the box on an empty bus is one thing. If you're the only one on the bus for your whole trip, you can assume that the cost to run the route far outweighs the money this one bus takes in in a day.
So imagine if 5 buses an hour take in one fare each. That's $7.50 being taken in. Costs for an hour can include but are not limited to operators wages ($100 cumulative or so) and diesel fuel ($2.00 a gallon now(?) at roughly 5 MPG plus all the time idling at stops and lights).
So unless you sir would like to fork over a few dollars PER TRIP i would enjoy what little service you have and be happy, or else find a new route.
BTW, I knew a guy who rode the B-70 every morning to get to school. However, he graduated in 1980 and moved to New Jersey. Hence: no more ridership.
i lived one block from the b70 and did not know one person who rode that bus!!!!!!
Easy does-it guys. He may be in "Straphangers mode", and lodged his complaint here thinking it might help, or fall on understanding ears. No need to dump on him for expressing his displeasure with the NYCTA.
Gotta remember something- most of you here know more about transit operations than some transit operation employees. He may not know what a headway is, or care what it is. He just wants his bus.
A little less "clique" and more explaination and understanding towards newcomers here would do us all well. No?
Anyway, I loved working the 70... because "An empty bus is a happy bus" (my motto).
:o
Because Mrs. Bill from Maspeth attended a baby shower with some of her hen friends, I had an opportunity to have an afternoon of NYCT bus riding. What a faithful husband I am! I drove out to 111 St./Jamaica Ave. and rode a J to Supthin Blvd. with the intention of riding the Q30. After letting a 4900 series Nova go by (living in FP territory I am bored with the RTS), I rode the next bus which was soft seat Orion 108 fifteen minutes later. 108 started out her life as a SI express bus, later got transfered to Stengel for X51 service, now is assigned to QV along with 106 & 107. Last time I looked, 107 still had Stengel stickers tho. 108 has not been re-powered, yet ran nicely, she definitely didn't show her age. At Little Neck Pkwy, while having a snack at the KFC, I missed a hard seat Orion while eating. As a side, I checked the schedule for the Q79, Little Neck Pkwy. bus. There can only be 2 runs on Saturday, generally a 30 minute headway. I saw both buses, both RTS', a soft seater and a hard seater. There is a gap in service in the afternoon, 1 missing interval, presumably while the drivers have their swing (lunch), one driver at a time. The following Q30 bus, another 4900 series Nova, arrived late so I let it go by. A few minutes later the bus I rode back to Supthin showed up: re-powered 8383. The bus needed a sweeping, but ran well. We lost lots of time on Jamaica Ave. Traffic and no parking laws are completely ignored on the Jamaica Ave. shopping strip. It was back to the J and to the car for part 2. I drove to Lormier and Broadway to check out the J shuttle. Now, I knew I would have no choice but to ride RTS! I got on ENY 8932 (or was it 8933?) and had a quick ride over the bridge. The bus was packed as we had the crowd of an arriving J at Lormier. Along the way, RTS from ENY, FLAT, FP, JG, UP and 126 were sighted. Interesting was JG 8528. She was repowered but the usual black rear grill was painted a dark purple. Looked kinda strange! After doing a bit of shopping and people (spelt G-I-R-L) watching, I took FLAT repowered 8032 back over the bridge. The driver will be retiring in October after 28 years on the job. There was mass confusion at Marcy and Hewes stations as people thought they could re-enter the subway at those points. Announcements didn't do any good since most people spoke either Chinese or Spanish, yet the driver spoke only English. There was some apprehension once the bus left the shadow of the structure to loop around with passengers to be in position for the next trip. All in all, a good bus riding day, despite the rain.
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you just leave your car at Lorimer/Bway and take the J either way from there, or leave your car at 111th/Jamiaca and take the J either way from there?
My house is pretty much the mid point between 111 St./Jamaica Ave. and Lormier/Broadway. I came within a few blocks of my house traveling between the 2 points.
Maybe the dark purple on the rear of 8528 was for the YHD Foxtons advertisments that have taken over the FLA and JG RTS's...............
"living in FP territory I am bored with the RTS"
I feel the same way, but least we have the Q39. The CNG Orions truly stand out in an area like Ridgewood or Maspeth that is 96% dominated by RTS's
Please Post bus you see in Borough if u Can of 1996 Nova with LED Tail Lamps it Brooklyn is:
Fresh Pond:
9140-9141, 9145, 9155, 9161, 9163
East New York
8691, 8903, 8910, 8913, 8938
Ulmer Park
9077-9081, 9083, 9086-9089, 9093, 9095-9100
Late 70's BLX becomes TA B/O. Trained at Q.V. depot. Instructor said, don't rely on right side mirror, not maintained. Instead, use inside rear view mirror tilted to see right side rear windows. That's how you pull into the bus stop/change lanes. BLX started at Crosstown depot in Greenpoint. Buses had no a/c (not maintained), no power steering, driver's seat was vinyl with tears held together by electrical or duct tape. No air suspension on seat. Crosstown small, maybe 6 routes, all buses parked outside. Streets around depot mainly commercial use, stores vacant, artists living in lofts. Nothing around depot, nearest place to eat Manhattan & Greenpoint Ave. Still had B30 shuttle bus through the industrial area under the bridge. B59 relief at Grand & Graham (nowhere to eat at night)and the bus turned short at 73 Street & Grand Ave. in Maspeth after 9pm. At night B59 terminal at Kent Ave. was deserted. B48 Lorimer Street was busy day and night. No time to sit, keep going. B61 bus to Erie Basin/Red Hook also deserted, plenty of junkies. B62 bus ended at depot (Box Street). Transfer to Flushing depot. Amazed that passengers waited on line in an orderly fashion. Q44 ended at 89 Ave. near post office and turned at Bryant Ave. in the Bronx under the el. Q44 had shorts to Sutphin Blvd. Q44B Malba shuttle from 14 Ave. & Parsons into the outskirts of Malba under Whitestone bridge. On Roosevelt Ave., Q28 had 2 lines, long & short trips (32 Ave. & Fr. Lewis Blv. by Eldee appliances). Hawk on Q16, Q26 plus Q14/Q15 hawk combo. 5000 series buses from Worlds Fair gave no support on driver's seat. Over bumps, BLX went up, seat stayed put. 8000 series was used on the X51 express running all day (now only am & pm rush hours). Q76 had relief point Fr. Lewis & Northern (plenty of travel time plus headway allowance, but still a pain). On Roosevelt Ave. between Main St. & Prince Street last part of block near Prince Street had vacant stores. Alot of the b/o's ate at the Americana diner (now Asian restaurant) by the Q27 stand (long trip). Nassau buses picked up on Prince St. & 40 Road alongside city housing project. Plenty of drug dealing on the streets. BLX promoted to dispatcher at Fresh Pond depot. It's getting late, if you want to hear about Fr. Pond and beyond, let BLX know. The sun will be coming up shortly, BLX is a night bird. Sleep tight.
I'd like to hear more. I'll have 23 years as a clerk/agent come September 11th. I wouldn't mind a few good stories. It might encourge me to say some of mine. Conversation is what this room needs.
Absolutely. Conversation here is a wonderful thing; we learn so much from each other. For example, our TA (Valley Metro-Roanoke, VA) received its first Grumman 870s the week you became a clerk/agent. I fell in love with the "Brand New City Bus", and I was only two years old at the time. :)
-F.
G1Ravage feels sorry for BLX. BLX must have had a very sore bottom after so many bumpy rides with seats that stay put. G1Ravage would not be sitting right now if such were the case. G1Ravage is happy to sit in chairs that conform to his delicate behind and move with his body motion. G1Ravage will now pet a cat and eat dinner.
And your point is?
I think his point is to briefly describe his 25 years of servive. The highlights and the lowlights. Then we'll see what way the tread goes.
I kind of figured that. But since he was babbling incoherently for a while, I just couldn't resist.
Me neither. >:-D
ELDEE APPLINANCE !!!! A name I haven't heard in a long time.....Are they still around or did they go the way of Newmark & Lewis, Topps, and other appliance retailers....IIRC they were a chain with several stores.
Eldee is gone. Funny, I was thinking of that name just recently.
What year was BLX a FP dispatcher? Do you remember any odd fleet number buses there?
Wow, what a history. 25 years ago today, I was just 7 months old, our TA had just gotten their fleet of Flx New Looks a year before, and the first RTS ever built was only a few weeks away.
Oh yeah, and my parents were getting a refund on their Elvis tickets; he was supposed to be here on August 24, but we all know what happened eight days before.
-FLX
BLX thanks all that expressed an interest. BLX was a student at Crosstown, Sr. Operator's took out rookies on their run to learn the route and to learn how to drive in passenger service. For this they received 2 hours extra pay plus they bought the rookies lunch. B39 over the bridge, my man is staying in right lane, traffic passing on left, one hand on the wheel. Now BLX goes, tries to stay in the lane and immediately scrapes bus on side of the bridge. No big deal, those days all the buses had dents, scrapes, etc. Next trip BLX stays in middle of both lanes. After BLX is on his own, working B39 on a Sunday (busy). Leaving Allen & Delancey St., making left to head over bridge to Brooklyn. Traffic island separates opposite lanes. As BLX turns left, bottom front steps go over traffic island. Done it before, no problem. Not this time. Bottom steps takes hit, front doors can't open. BLX gets rated an 'E' - 100% at fault and gets an O.C. (Official Caution). Change to Queens, co-worker on Q27 making short to Horace Harding/Springfield. Comes in too fast, bottom step crunches, front doors can't open. What to do? On deadhead trip back to Main St. subway, finds hardware store, borrows sledge hammer. Bangs bottom step to straighten out and front doors can operate. No accident report. Just another dent. For those inquiring minds, BLX landed at Fr. Pond mid 80's as dispatcher, then to the Command Center (radios didn't work). BLX has more if you can feel the vibes BLX transmits. Talk to BLX, he's user friendly.
Interesting. My dad started at Crosstown in 1971. Left soonafter to Ulmer Park where he became a dispatcher in the early 80's. Went to Fresh Pond, then Road Control. Held a pretty popular 2pm-10pm S/S post in.....
You probably know him. He may have trained you...
Interesting. My dad started at Crosstown in 1971. Left soonafter to Ulmer Park where he became a dispatcher in the early 80's. Went to Fresh Pond, then Road Control. Held a pretty popular 2pm-10pm S/S post in.....
You probably know him. He may have trained you...
Oh, and he's been retired 2 years now.
I was barely going on 3 during your start in transit and it is very interesting to hear how things were back then. Keep the stories coming BLX!
Troy
Remember last year when JG got like 15-20 UP Novas for service while the LFs were being used for special olympics. Someone said that they installed overhead racks on them as added storage space. Do any of these still exist like this?
HELLO DOES ANYONE HAVE A OLD RTS BUS BANK ROUTED BX26 CO-OP CITY? AND IS LOOKING TO SELL IT. I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS ROUTE FOR YEARS AND ROYAL COACH DOESN'T MAKE THIS ROUTE ANYMORE. I WANT TO AD TO MY COLLECTION
STOP SHOUTING!!!
I have a couple RTS banks lying around that desperately need a home; I am willing to do one up in NYCTA colors and can even add the BX26 destination, your favorite fleet number, and realistic bus wheels if you wish.
Please e-mail me at once if you are interested; hope to hear from you soon!
-Fred
I have to say I had two nice rides today on the New Flyers. The first was on Phila. Suburban Rte. 109 to Springfield Mall, and the second
on the EL Shuttle that was running from 69th to 30th sts. in Philadelphia. I am impressed with the bus to say the least.
Any busfans have any comments?
Chuck Greene
I had the pleasure of riding Greyhound from Los Angeles to San Francisco overnight on Friday. I had purchased my ticket more than a week ago, and it clearly stated that I was booked on Schedule No. 6848 from Los Angeles, leaving at 11:00 P.M., with stops at North Hollywood, and Oakland, and arriving at 6:40 A.M. My ticket was for that bus only and advised me that if I wanted to change to another bus there would be a $10.00 additional charge.
At the bus station in Los Angeles at about 10:20 p.m., they announced over the PA system that 6848 to San Francisco would be loading through door 16. People started lining up at the door, so I joined the line, counting about 30 people in front of me, and stood until they started boarding at about 11:10 p.m. There were two people at the door taking tickets, and I was directed to one bus when I said my destination was San Francisco, while others were directed to the other bus.
It was not until the bus had backed out from the terminal that the driver announced that the bus would be stopping in North Hollywood, Gilroy, San Jose, and Sunnyvale, and would arrive in San Francisco about 7:30 a.m. It was schedule 6878 which was scheduled to leave at the same time but took a slightly longer route to get to San Francisco. I felt like I had been shanghaied. Greyhound had put me on a slower bus without telling me in advance. The real kicker was that we traveled in tandem with another section running on schedule 6876. We started out with 50 passengers on our bus and dropped off seven at intermediate stops and picked up 1. The other bus, which pulled in and departed the intermediate stops at the same time we did dropped off no more than 10 passengers. When we arrived in San Francisco, both buses had at least 40 passengers on them.
I spoke with the driver and mentioned that my ticket was for the faster bus, and he told me that because of the number of people traveling from Los Angeles, it was necessary to put on an extra section, and the overflow from both schedules went there. What I could not understand is why, with the large number of passengers who were traveling all the way from Los Angeles to San Francisco, they did not put the extra section on the faster run 6848, or even load the extra section in Los Angeles only with passengers going to San Francisco and skip all the intermediate stops completely.
BTW, I noticed that this driver allowed passengers to sit in the front row of seats. Most drivers will not allow that. I was able to have two seats to myself. I am a fairly large person, and when I found an empty seat I took the aisle seat, and spread as much as I could over the other seat (by leaning away from the aisle and letting my hand rest on the empty seat). Since the bus was not completely full, passengers getting on after me chose seats with those who had moved to the window seat, or with the smallest persons they could find. The ride itself was comfortable, and the extra time was not critical.
I returned to Los Angeles Saturday night, and this time Greyhound made up for putting me on the slower bus. I was scheduled on 6749 leaving at 11:05 p.m., with stops in Oakland, San Jose, North Hollywood, and Hollywood, arriving in Los Angeles at 7:45 a.m. I arrived at the Greyhound terminal at 9:50 p.m. At 10:00 p.m. a bus loaded for schedule 6849 with one stop scheduled in Oakland, and then through to Los Angeles arriving at 5:25 a.m. After all the passengers in line loaded, I went to the driver, and told him I had a ticket for a later bus, but was ready to go if he had room. He said sure, took my ticket and let me board (without any extra charge). Even though I was the last one boarding I found a double seat for myself (although it was over the rear wheels). I was tired and slept almost all the way to Los Angeles. We arrived at 5:00 a.m., and I was able to catch the first transit bus of the day at 5:30 to get home by 6:40 a.m.
Tom
Read the Austin American-Statesman story
--
Michael
Why not? I once saw a NYCT bus in Aruba. October 1981. It was a replacement for one of the local busses that broke down/
Hmmm...is that a Orion 5 causing all that discord or is that a C40LF?:)
I didn't know the differences of the buses like I do now. All I remember is that it was an older model.
Could it be the Orion VII CNG, #7560?
The article mentioned a CNG bus with New York City on the side...the descript says Orion VII CNG #7560. Is THAT where that bus has been hiding? If it's a C40LF, then I could be wrong...but I think it's #7560...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"An NYCT Bus in Austin???"
It would have to be one of the Orions, since the impression that I got from reading the article was that it was a brand new NYCT bus.
Very excellent deduction, Cleanairbus. Orion VII #7560 has been in Texas all summer undergoing a/c tests.
Mark
so THAT explains its hiatus the past copule o' months...
I wonder what they will do with 6365 once the 30-day testing is over...send it to Canda for heat unit testing? lol
Cleanairbus
An interesting article from Newsday
I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the private routes offered better service than the public routes. But if anything, they're inferior.
---Andrew
[I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the private routes offered better service than the public routes. But if anything, they're inferior.]
That's because, in addition to spoon-feeding the carriers, NYCDOT provides almost zero oversight and very little incentive to provide quality service.
Note that DOT stated, on the record, that the carriers' profits are guaranteed. In other words, the companies make a fixed profit no matter how good or bad the service is. (Since DOT imposes penalties for lousy service, the profit-guarantee obviously means that any penalties are simply counted as expenses and reimbursed by DOT, thus rendering them meaningless.) On the other hand, Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service do make a noble effort to operate a high-quality service, which has resulted in their earning "incentive" payments.
The questions almost ask themselves: Why must profits be guaranteed regardless of performance? Why must there be a special bonus just for doing a decent job? For any other type of contractor, the natural "incentive" to do a good job would normally be the possibility of (1) losing the contract and/or (2) being sued. Why can't these seven companies - or four companies pretending to be seven - be held to that simple standard?
BTW... Don't expect any meaningful answers to come from the "new" City Council. The newest members of the Council are merely the place-holding children/spouses/protoges/clones of their do-nothing predecessors, many of whom were "bought off" by the DOT carriers.
Next year's belt tightening should make things interesting. The party starts after the election.
It's the worst of both worlds, isn't it. It has the profit motive (sort of) of private industry and the lack of competition of the government.
--Andrew
But that's exactly what many cities in the US are re-inventing, i.e. a private group to run a public bus operation ... Phoenix has been doing it for many years, or closer to home HBLR, who built the line & now runs it for profit.
What is the big joke about the articles is both authors only list ONE person in the TA to equate the "private" salaries to. Hay guys want to borrow a copy of the TA phone book, you'll find more then one name in charge of the buses ! A-N-D you have to add some of Larry Reuters time & that of a couple guys at the MTA too.
Oh well, you know what they say figures don't lie but liers sure can figure.
But that's exactly what many cities in the US are re-inventing, i.e. a private group to run a public bus operation
Can we say "Regional Bus" boys and girls?
What is the big joke about the articles is both authors only list ONE person in the TA to equate the "private" salaries to. Hay guys want to borrow a copy of the TA phone book, you'll find more then one name in charge of the buses !
Not exactly. The entire division of NYCT Surface (Buses) is headed by Millard "Butch" Seay, who reports to Reuter (NYCT)- who reports to Kalikow (MTA). It is under Seay that the multitude of subdivisions (and waste) begin.
Jeff my friend, apparently you haven't seen a TA telephone book.
At this depot there are only 50 folks besides the drivers & mechanics, plus just a few more in nycDOT to support 337 buses. So count up all the folks at a similar sized TA depot, plus all the extra staff at the several back office operations scattered around the city, you'll end up with thousands.
Second point: If you were running a business how much would you pay yourself ? Would you expect to make a profit at it ? Oh, not all the "privates" do it for profit, some just work for a salary. Compaired to a typical business here in NYC there salary doesn't seem all that bad. They just have to work in a fish bowl. Thay keeps them honest & providing good service to the public.
I hope Mayor Mike takes a critical look at which style of operation is a better value for the City. Currently I think he's just in a chop chop mode because of all the expiring contracts that Rudy left him with.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT & am speaking just for myself not my employeer.
At this depot there are only 50 folks besides the drivers & mechanics, plus just a few more in nycDOT to support 337 buses.
At Queens Village Depot, there are less than 50 folks in administration, besides operators and other employees.
So count up all the folks at a similar sized TA depot, plus all the extra staff at the several back office operations scattered around the city, you'll end up with thousands.
The big difference here is that NYCT serves 5 boroughs of New York City encompassing anywhere between 17 and 20 different depots at any given time. The operation comprises two separate authorities and three different unions, as opposed to Queens Surface, which has one garage, one union, and serves only one particular region of one borough (including express buses which serve Manhattan- the primary reason for service is to serve the residents of Southeast Queens).
Second point: If you were running a business how much would you pay yourself?
In this capatalist free enterprise system we've created for ourselves? When grown men who play baseball aren't content with an average salary of 2.4 million dollars and complain that the boss is making money at the expense of their sweat and labor?
As much as possible.
Would you expect to make a profit at it?
I certainly would. Why else would I be in business? But that's me. Unfortunately, I am not in business for myself, and if I told my boss I wasn't happy with my salary or collective bargaining agreement, and threatened to strike because he makes money at the expense of my sweat and labor, he'd show me the door or file an injunction in court barring me from even uttering the word...
Or both.
Re: TA VP Millard L. Seay's salary ...
"The big difference here is that NYCT serves 5 boroughs of New York City encompassing anywhere between 17 and 20 different depots at any given time ..."
A valid point, so the folks served by his buses are getting their money's worth. However the way the US DOT compares one operator vs. another is to include all the cost. If you can obtain a recent copy of their "Transit Profiles" you'll see what I mean. BTW, it includes all operators public & private that serve a population over 200K.
Very simple debate solution: Just take a look at the cost per hour for any of the privates and then for any government operated entity. Notice how much higher the gov't's figures are? Why?? It's simple....WASTE. And when there seems to be a budget that's a "bottomless pit", then waste is encouraged. And believe me, I've seen it and know even the silent and unwritten reasons. Private companies are better. NYCDOT just has to empoy someone that knows how to solicit bids.
Good point.
The "cost" of the TA service surly could be reduced, and nycDOT could do more, as could their operators themselves.
Profit motive is what makes private industry work. Private industry doesn't work when profit is guaranteed and not resultant on providing goods and services to customers successfully.
Some questions to ponder: So how does NYCT take over the private lines routes? Why would Jerome Cooper and cronies want to give them up with their yearly level of monetary compensation? Some kind of hostile takeover? What kind of severence package would Jerome and his friends get. What about the drivers becoming under the employ of NYCT? The first employees of the planned by NYCT management "Regional Bus Company?" TWU has many isssues with it, but will Regional Bus be shoved down the throat of TWU just to protect job security? I doubt if anything will happen till 2003 since the collective bargaining between NYCT & TWU expires on 12/15/02.
It's those crazy work rules in all the Queens privates. Like working 4 hours and getting paid for 8. Like dictating to the Companies which work is overtime. And the mechanics are worse. If their overtime is cut in any way, they slow down to assure that the buses don't get fixed and then overtime is given to get them fixed. And you'll find all of the overnight shop people asleep until 3-4am, they claim they are taking all their breaks and meals at one time. But they are also working 4 and getting paid for 8 like the drivers. The time to fix this was while they were on strike, but no one there wants to rock the boat because everyone is making $$$$. And besides, those that know how to fix it are told to MYOB. So many think they know how to fix it, but are all lip service (all talk - no action).
The best thing that could happen is for the bids to go out. But that won't happen anytime soon. Who in the City knows what to ask for, and without that, no one can bid.
And here's a followup story
i have a complaint about one of the private lines, that being Triboro Coach.
I had a chance to ride the Q18 today with TCC #2827. This bus had no a/c and the driver was driving like a maniac, passing stops and speeding. Other TCC buses i saw included #2806(with a big hole on its side) and #2141(with holes all over the back).
Isnt it odd that QS buses are in mint condition(including the Orion V CNG Buses) and Green line buses are in good shape. Triboro is letting their buses go to waste.
If the city wants to take over private lines, let them. Would we get better buses from Triboro if it didnt happen? No. Will we ever? No.
Q18-#2827-TMCRTS
Q67-#469-Orion V-CNG
The phone number of the bus company is posted inside the vehicle so you could lodge a compliant to TCC directly over the unprofessional actions of this bus operator. As for the condition of TCC buses, that has been well documented on BusTalk. With that said, I am quite disturbed over the condition of 2141. Just before the 7 week strike, that bus recently came back from conversion from Methanol to Series 50 diesel. That bus should still look like new as body work and repainting was accomplished at that time. Up to that point, that whole series of buses (about 12 of them) was out of service most of the time due to mechanical and TCC maintainance unreliability.
[If the city wants to take over private lines, let them.]
Hel-LO!! Where have you been?
The city (i.e. NYCDOT) presently DOES control those routes, and the mayor is actually seeking to get out of the bus business. All the controversy is about whether or not the routes should be taken over by Transit (which, as all BusTalkers know by now, is NOT a mayoral agency).
So true. I'd prefer that as well, since the service the privae lines provide is inferior. Bus bunching and lack of maintenance is so much more common on the private lines. Broken fareboxes on those good 'ole RTS QSC models have the passengers smiling like idiots on their way.
Yesterday - while driving back to MD from NYC I spotted NYCT #5407 on the shoulder with it's engine door open about 2000 feet south of the GWB toll plaza.
Perhaps it was coming from Atlantic Diesel, but wasn't quite fixed????
Wayne
Same thing happened to Liberty Lines MCI Classic #3103 last week. The bus overheated and broke down on the GWB on its way back from ADD. Sorry to say the bus is still o/s.
Peace,
Kevin
1. Saw 4462 on the B41 last week with flatbush stickers
2. Saw 4874 suburban on the B6 couple weeks ago with ulme park stickers.
what's with these clunkers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
914-B67
4726-B52
3986-B54 (piece of crap)
9416-B41
8557-B16
4791-B4
9419-B44
980-B35
Joe
So much for surburbans not being allowed on the B6. Obviously, it was time for a pullout, and the only availiable bus was 4874.
4462 has been in flatbush for 3 years now. we have a whole load of 4400`s here at flatbush!!!!!!!
However, 4874 doesn't have the problem that the 9250-9349 series buses have -- wide seats on platforms that don't allow much standing room. Less seating room than local buses, to be sure, but not the extreme problem the newer buses have when they're used in local service.
David
4000 series suburbans have been used regularly on the B6 now for the past few weeks. However the 9000 series suburbans are still prohibited.
BIG AL
B54-3986(piece of crap)
LOL!!! That's FP for you.
But tell me something, how is this bus on the B54 when FP is suppose to store the 3900's for Sept.? Also, isn't this bus suppose to retire? When did you see this bus?
-
Q55-RTS #9605
Yesterday morning. at 6:30am
4462 was actually at yukon for the past several years.
I saw a 39xx on the B54 Saturday evening as well.
They're baaack ;)
Saw 3919 on the B38 about noontime at DeKalb/Bdwy heading towards Tillary St.
This morning, I was on an X15. Right before the bridge, a lady gets on and tries her Metrocard and it has no fare on it. So she sits next to me in the front seat searching for change. After a while of looking, I told her that she could use my unlimited Metrocard, and that she didn't have to pay me since I had boarded near the beginning of the route and the 18 minute period had passed.
She was shocked at my generosity, but she agreed and used it.
The driver said that it was not good, even though the farebox took the metrocard and accepted payment for the fare on the unlimited.
The driver then proceeded to yell at me saying she had to pay and that you are not supposed to sell your rides on an unlimited. So to shut him up, I took out my other Metrocard and let her use it and gave her change for a $20.
Why is this guy getting so pissed? I DID NOT SELL a ride for $$. I was just being nice to the lady.
I think that if we were not in the front and maybe if he hadn't heard me then there would have been no problem.
Now if the TA is so concerned about selling rides, then why is there the 18 minute thing rather than not having the card being accepted again on the same bus, since the route, bus #, and run# are in the farebox??
Well from your point of view, it seems the bus driver acted real bad! But from his point of view, It is like this, we bus drivers feel taken advantage when it comes to that. It like this 3 people get on the bus one has a monthly pass, the first guy shows it, and goes back to his seat, when he sits down, he gives it to his friend, and so forth. Pretty much it makes it seem like the 3 people got on for 1.10. So we feel like these people are taking advantage of, also sometimes, there could be a spotter on the bus, and the right there the driver is in trouble and will get written up. That is probably why he had gotten upset. But this is how it always is when it comes to the job.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
You did the right thing....pure and simple.
Peace,
ANDEE
The following language is from the MTA's web site:
"Restriction: Unlimited-Ride MetroCard cannot be used again at the same subway station or same bus route for 18 minutes. The acceptance or solicitation of compensation for use of an Unlimited Ride MetroCard by other than authorized agents of MTA New York City Transit is prohibited."
Sounds like what you offered to do is perfectly within legal limits. Unfortunately, not all bus operators study the subtleties of the MTA's own rules.
That restriction applies to the same person using the unlimited metrocard on the same bus line. This is not what happened. What we have here is different people attempting to use the same metrocard on the same bus on the same TRIP, which by T/A standards is illegal. The unlimited metrocard is only to be used by one person on the same bus trip. I used to frown when people passed their cards back 18 plus minutes down the line also but I will admit I rarely enforced the rule because of a loophole I can't discuss on this board.
BIG AL
Why can't you discuss it? It's not like the TA can track you down.
I think it is a matter of if you call in an abuse of a metrocard 3 things might happen:
1) By the time anyone comes, the 18 minutes will have elapsed and the person goes on their way.
2) If police were to quickly respond, they would let the person ride, consider the job unfounded or unnecessery.
3) A dispatcher or supervisor would likely side with the customer, let them ride and write you up for delay in service.
It's a matter of giving the customer the benefit of a doubt. Even if it's bigger that Coney Island Yard.
Let's see - Big Al has been posting observations about his former depot for a long time now, and in the last several weeks, he's shared his observations about booking buses at several specific locations in great detail.
Yes Al, why hold back? How ever would they find you?
I'm sorry , but I have not been following BusTalk for quite a while, as there has been very little NYCT info here.
Bus Talk is supposed to be about Buses. It doesn't have to be about NYC Transit Buses. It can also be about NYC private bus lines. It can also be about Bus lines and companies not in the NYC area area. Just as long as the subject is about Buses. On the main page it describes exactly what this page is all about. And says it better than me!
I'm not worried about the T/A tracking me down. They probably already know who I am on this board. The reason why I won't discuss the loophole is pretty much the same reason why I would not give those farebox codes on bustalk a couple of months ago. Everybody on the web would learn the loophole and try to take advantage of it, which is wrong and illegal. If you are on the bus 5 minutes or an hour, it is illegal to pass the metrocard back to somebody else period. The 18 minute window is only in case you get off the bus, then have to get back on the same line again, 18 or more minutes later. Personally, I think the cards should be reprogrammed not to work on the same bus only for say an hour. I know of quite a few instances where people would ride the bus for 5 minutes, get off, pick up their child from daycare and get back on in the opposite direction. Of course the card would not work but I knew they were not passing back the card so I let them ride anyway. No, that's not the loophole but 99% of the problems would be resolved if the cards were programmed not to work on the same bus for an extended period of time and the same line in the same direction for only a short period of time.
BIG AL
Similar to what happens at Jamaica Center everyday on the subway. These entrapaneurs buy a few fun passes and use them to let in people in exchange for a dollar bill or token. Never mind the 18 minutes TA. It should be programed that a particular MetroCard cannot be used on the same bus or train station for 1 hour, not 18 minutes.
That's a bigger problem. I know of that game also at Jamaica center. They buy 4 or 5 cards and just keep rotating them. The problem is the card is not used on the same bus, so the 1 hour shut down would not apply or work. Shutting it down for 1 full hour on the same line (not bus) would really inconvience the legitimate riders. This type of problem can only be enforced by the NYPD and transit police.
BIG AL
What about someone getting off the bus, picking up someone or something, and getting back on in the same direction? I do this quite a bit, although I'm waved through despite the "Invalid Card" warning about 80% of the time. In the instances I'm not, waiting for the 18 minute period to pass is frustrating enough. Make it an hour, and I'd have to hitchhike.
Please reread my previous post. I said 1 hour on the same exact bus, but keep the 18 minutes on any other bus on the same line.
BIG AL
Whoops; I read "same route," not "same farebox" (and apparently missed the last 15 words altogether)
[What we have here is different people attempting to use the same metrocard on the same bus on the same TRIP, which by T/A standards is illegal.]
If transferring an unlimited ride Metrocard to another person is illegal, where on the TA web site does it say that? On the contrary, the restriction about selling a Metrocard that I quoted in my earlier message suggests that there is nothing wrong with transferring an unlimited ride Metrocard to another person without compensation. If the MTA wants transferring of unlimited ride Metrocards to be illegal, it must state that someplace available to the riding public. Because it states other restrictions on its web site, that would be the logical place for it to be. I looked and could not find any restriction on transfers of unlimited ride Metrocards on the MTA web site.
It is legal for a person to give them their unlimited ride card when they're not using it. 2 examples-
The wife is off from work today and does not ride transit. She gives the unlimited to her husband to use for his commute. That is LEGAL
Several friends board the bus, but one guy doesn't have the change. He asks his friend to use his unlimited. This is ILLEGAL.
It's pretty simple really, as long as your using your Unlimited Metrocard you cannot give it to anyone else on the bus to use.
[Several friends board the bus, but one guy doesn't have the change. He asks his friend to use his unlimited. This is ILLEGAL.
It's pretty simple really, as long as your using your Unlimited Metrocard you cannot give it to anyone else on the bus to use.]
Where on the MTA site do you get this information. As best I can tell, you are dead wrong. One person using another's unlimited ride Metrocard is not illegal as long as the first person hasn't used it on the same bus within 18 minutes of when the second person wants to use it. Conversely, after 18 minutes the first person can give the second person his/her unlimited Metrocard to use on the same bus or at the same subway station. I don't necessarily agree with the result, but according to the MTA web site, that's what it is. Please site a specific reference on the MTA site before you make any more legal conclusions!
I've seen it on reminder ads all over the buses
Qtraindash7 is absolutley right. (I never thought I would hear myself saying that!) Why in the world would it be illegal to pass your metrocard back for only 18 minutes, then be legal after that? That makes no sense at all. Just because the card becomes active again after 18 minutes does not mean it becomes legal to pass back. It is only active to keep the main user from becoming inconvenienced for a long duration. It is legal for somebody to pass it to another family member at home or coworker at the job, because the card is not being used on the same bus trip, but it is illegal for different people to use it on the same trip. I'll see if I can dig up some info on the exact policy for the unlimited ride card, but as already mentioned, the ad says you can not pass it back and it DOES NOT say for only the first 18 minutes.
BIG AL
[I'll see if I can dig up some info on the exact policy for the unlimited ride card, but as already mentioned, the ad says you can not pass it back and it DOES NOT say for only the first 18 minutes.]
I hate to beat a dead horse, but just to clarify things: The MTA web site does NOT contain any restriction about transferring an unlimited ride Metrocard other than for compensation. However, an old Metrocard Brochure I had picked up called, "Unlimited Rides or Pay-Per-Ride? Know which way to go..." contains the following two sentences from different parts of the Brochure that seem to state the rule:
"Although Unlimited ride MetroCard cannot be passed back to others for multiple entries, you can lend it to others when you're not using it." "Unlimited Ride MetroCards may not be transferred to another person until the completion of the trip for which entry was obtained."
at one point we had passes here in las vegas that you could just flash the driver, and go through. we could not pass the pass back to our friends, and let them use the pass a second time. the driver would ask to see 2 passes.
I think the second part of that rule you stated from that old brochure
just ended this argument and chopped up your dead horse.
BIG AL
You cannot pass your unlimited metrocard to others when you're using it.
Finally got to look at a somewhat old Metrocard Brochure I had picked up called, "Unlimited Rides or Pay-Per-Ride? Know which way to go..." I will quote two sentences from different parts of the Brochure, but the second sentence does suggest the driver was correct in not letting you use your card for the lady's fare:
"Although Unlimited ride MetroCard cannot be passed back to others for multiple entries, you can lend it to others when you're not using it." "Unlimited Ride MetroCards may not be transferred to another person until the completion of the trip for which entry was obtained."
Amen!
>>> Unlimited Ride MetroCards may not be transferred to another person until the completion of the trip for which entry was obtained <<<
I'm glad you found that. In legal terms, the Unlimited card provides a licence for the holder to travel as much as he/she wants during its period of validity. The licence is transferable by giving the card to someone else, but only one person at a time is licenced to travel. Once you give your card to someone else, you are no longer entitled to ride. The time restrictions are attempts to prevent obvious abuse of the card while still retaining the utility.
Tom
Recently, there was talk in the last month or so regarding the New Corgi Bus Model for the "M" New York City Surface Transit. Someone posted the name of the company (or companies) that was taking orders for the model buses. Does anyone have that E-Mail address for that supplier(s)? Thanks much! :^) William, Train #144, Local Downtown!
This is where I get my Corgis - they have the blue MTA in stock right now: Zion Antique Mall Toyshop. Family-run shop, really nice friendly people.
You can also hit Die-Cast Direct, although they still list the model as pre-order.
Thank You KCRAM 3500! :^) That is not too far from me in the Chicago Area!
Glad I could help - you'll like dealing with them!
First day back in town after a week's vacation and I spotted 4309 -- twice! At 11:35 AM, it made an appearance on the 36 at Friendship Heigths, then popped up again at 1:40 PM on the 34 at 17th and Eye.
Sorry if 4309 postings are becoming passe. I hadn't seen it in a while, so . . .
C
I saw it as well S/B on Wisconsin & Porter (route 35) around 8:30 AM.
Wayne
I haven't seen this bus for about two weeks, the last time I saw it, it was on the 42 at 11th and H Streets. I thought that the side destination signs were a two piece like the other 4300s, and I think they may have been, but it is a one piece similiar to the 2100-2200s.
Hopefully, when the 4200's, 4300s and 4400s go in for rehab, they will get rid of those damn Vultron signs and replace them with real readable signs, would like to see the Balios curtain signs on them.
This is the first install of my bus memories...a trip down memory lane if you will. Here we go with the first installment:
Before December 11th 1988, I remember waiting for the Q4 bus with my Dad on Hillside Av and 167th St (Sometime in 1986 actually) before it went to Parsons Blvd and Archer Av. We were on our way to Linden Blvd and Murdock Av to see my Dad's relative (I forgot who). The Q4 would come all the way up to Hillside Av. Drop off at the 169th St Subway Station on 168th St and Hillside Av, then ther pick-up (First stop) would be Hillside Av and 167th St. The roster then for the Jamaica Depot BASED ON MY MEMORY....was this:
GMC RTS-04 buses #3576-3650
Flxible "New Look" buses #9289-9297? ( I'm not familiar with the Flxible roster that well back in the 1980's especially around 1986...Q5Merrick and BIG AL should and would know more on that.)
If you guys like my memories, please let me know and I will continue posting my memories on BusTalk. I have a bunch of memories. I guess this makes up in a way for not having any pics...LOL!
Sound good. I'd say... continue to post those memories. I know those high 9200 series 1977 Flxibles were in Queens and ENY during that time. These were actually MABSTOA Flxibles that started their life assigned to Kingsbridge depot. KB had 9285-9299.
At that time the NYCTA/MABSTOA fleet was becoming more boring with the arrival of more RTS each year. However, things were downright exciting at QSC. I used to ride the QBX1, Q66, and Q25/34 often. On the QBX1 I'd almost always get one of the Grumman 870's or the equally awesome GMDD fishbowls.
Wayne
I wounder how fast the QSC Grumman 870's where going on the Whitestone Bridge?
Oh - believe me. I rode them (and the GMDD fishbowls) as much as possible and they were very quick (even on upgrades) and easily kept pace with highway traffic. I can remember once we passed a Q44 bus on the bridge. They had DD 8V-71N engines and they were so fast. I was heartbroken when they and the GMDD's went away (- and more dreaded RTS showed up. The Queens/Steinway Transit Grumman Flxible 870 were also 96-inches wide.
Now - those are some good memories.
Wayne
Speaking of heartbreaking, did you know M.S.B.A. had the first 8V-71 GMC Fishbowl ever produced? It was bus #685, built back in 1967. In fact, it's on the OMOT bus roster. That bus deserved a better fate than Gershow Metal Recycling (sob).
I just checked the site. They were T8H-5306's originally owned by Bee-Line and the numbers were 685-688. How well I remember them in their blue and orange paint scheme.
[How well I remember them in their blue and orange paint scheme.]
I have fonder memories of them in their original Bee Line red and white paint scheme. This was the last order of Bee Line new look buses with the red roof. With 689-693, Bee Line went back to the white roof that was the standard delivered paint scheme on its new looks from 674 and older.
I loved the blue and orange paint scheme as well. I remember the 1972(?) GMC-T6H5307A's numbered in the low 100's and the 1973 5308A's numbered in the low 800's.
Speaking of 800's, the 1978 white-bumpered Flxible 53096-8's (850-902) came in with the white and orange paint scheme. By far, these were my all-time favorite of the MSBA/LI Bus fleets. They would absolutely terrorize TA buses along Hillside Avenue and would even challenge cars with those powerful DD8V-71 engines mated to an Allison V731 transmission. They were fast even with the a/c blasting. Meanwhile, their TA counterparts (the popular 9000's) were no match for them whatsoever.
At the time the TA's 1977 Flxies were assigned as follows: 9080-9089 FLU, 9090-9099 (JAM) and 9100-9109 (QV). They all took a backseat to those MSBA road rockets!
Mark
Yes that's true. I felt terrible when they refurbished buses 854 and 898 only to scrap them a short time later. I believed the transmission crapped out on one of the two, but to me it still seems a waste after all that work was invested. I remember #854 went to the scrap with WORKING A/C! My all-time favorite buses were #704 and 438 (if you've been at M.S.B.A. awhile, you'll know why :o) )
[the 1978 white-bumpered Flxible 53096-8's (850-902) came in with the white and orange paint scheme. By far, these were my all-time favorite of the MSBA/LI Bus fleets.]
I remember that those seemed like the fastest buses on the road. Those were the days that the N4 and N6 used to whiz by from the city line to Jamaica. I believe they were pretty near the end of the Flxible new look production line, as the 870's were about to replace the new looks.
Oh yes, I agree - those MSBA Flxibles were just too fast for words. MABSTOA had 5 (9160-9164) with the 8V-71 engine as well. They were quite fast, but most drivers didn't really push them. The nice thing about MSBA was that... they always drove the heck out of those buses. I have fond memories of them flying up and down Merrick, Hillside and Francis Lewis Blvd. The 870/Metro were pretty awesome too.
Wayne
WOW! How often a QSC 1979 RTS's come on the QBXM1 and I wounder what QSC route saw the 1st MCI Classic Suburban #900?
I never did ride their RTS 03 series bus. Queens/Steinway had only 1 each of these buses numbered 1 & 2. Whenever I did see them they were always on express runs. The RTS I spoke of were the 1985 04 series.
Wayne
In 1986, the 1975 Flxibles were still alive in Jamaica Depot. They had 7500-7596 (with several skips), as well as some low 7600's and even some MaBSTOA 7700's from Walnut. I recall 7700, 7701(had "BUS ADS FIT" sign over a/c unit--how many of you remember those), 7712, 7724, 7725 and 7726. Those Flxies were gone by the end of 1986 as JAM received 4554-4599. Most of the 1986 RTS's are STILL be seen alive and kicking along Merrick Blvd.
I gave you a more of my memories in Queens in the "MORE BLX HISTORY" thread.
Mark
I remember those ads very well. I saw them mostly in Manhattan. I always wondered how NYCT(A) ever expected the air conditioning to work with a piece of cardboard covering the condenser (not to mention the air intakes on the sides of the buses, which were also covered by ads).
David
At some point, 7701, 7703, 7705, 7706, 7710, 7712 and 7724-7726 made their way to FP. Also at FP were 126 St's upper 7600's and lower 7000's all with those AC ad racks. During their time at FP, some of those ads were changed to N.Y. Knicks ads. Some of those 7700's FP recieved I believe were previously at QV where I recall seeing 7701 and a few others on the Q46(then Q44A). Also at Jamaica Depot were 7656-7659 with AC ad racks.
Yes, I certainly remember those "Bus Ads Fit" signs. These (and the older 7000-7204, 7300-7361) were my least favorite buses in the TA/OA fleet. It seems that the "Bus Ads Fit" signs were added to all of the Flxibles at Manhattan depots except HUD's 4721-4727.
Wayne
Speaking of old bus ads, how many remember the ads on the back of the early fishbowls that said something like, "This New Bus Cost $17,OOO.00, please take care of it"
Peace,
ANDEE
Today I rode the QM4(MCI Classic #932) an put in a MetroCard with $1.50 on it and it said to put in $1.50 in Coins,So I did exept I put in $1.25 and I had 1 Quarter in my pocket so I took it out and slam the coin into the Farebox as I was going to my seat. Me slam the Quarter into the farebox caused a Farebox Problem. This caused Coins to be piled up and the driver had to mess around with the farebox from time to time until all the coins went in.
I fell like I need to write a letter to QSC for causeing this problem on 932. I tend to slam my coins into the Farebox at times to hurry up so like that I get a seat. So I guess now next time I should had went down to the subway and add $1.50 to the MetroCard or get a Token if a card don't have enough $$$ for the Express Bus.
You're in luck posting here on Bus-Talk......You should e-mail him privately through one of his posts......He works for QSC in the revenue collection department. He can advise you as to the proper procedure and/or check out the farebox to see if it is defective in anyway.
I just E-Mail Thurston on this
Why are you going to write a letter about how you jammed up a fare box? Its nothing too big, how would they respond to you, be more gentle with the farebox. Its not worth it, people do that too fareboxes all the time, putting the money in too fast.
I don't think they'd even care. QSC often runs buses with broken fareboxes. Whether it be not a big enough surplus/backup # of buses, or laziness, I don't know.
Why do you have to take a temper tantrum and slam the coins into the farebox when only one person at a time can enter a bus? The next person cannot beat you next availiable seat!
I did not had a temper tantrum. I just forgot to put 1 more Quarter into the farebox and I was about to sit down when I notice that I just put $1.25 in and I had to do it quick. I tend to rush things too much and I trying to get myself to stop this
On local buses many people would thank him for jamming the box
What's the problem? Everybody makes mistakes
Am curious to know why didnt Road Champs do a ho scale model of the RTS bus. I mean, i know of the friction model and the gmc model made, but have no idea why road champs didnt make one. isnt it odd as well that whatever company made the rts friction bus as well as the gmc new look never made a Grumman bus. Any information would be well worth it. thank you.
Why didn't Road Champs make an RTS?
First, bus models are NOT popular.....oh, sure, many bus enthusiasts in here think they are. They, in reality, are not. And there simply are NOT that many bus enthusiasts. To make a scale model, a company needs to sell 15,000-20,000 units just to pay for the die making alone!!! Yes, there is that much expense in making a decent, well-detailed model.
Secondly, Road Champs is no longer in business, so to speak. They were in Caldwell, NJ -- bought out by a Chinese-owned firm with a mailing address in Malibu, California. And their ONLY interest now is keeping things simple and making ONLY Ford Crown Victoria police cars. The dies are made, and basically all they do is get them painted (over in China) for various law enforcement agencies. There are a heck of a lot more people BUYING the police cars than ever bought the buses.
Just look at how many Corgi buses wound up in merchandise liquidation outfits at 35-40% of their original retail price. That shows you how many people BUY bus models (vs. how many WANT them).
Sure, the prices were a tad high on the Corgi models -- but they were right in line with models of other size and detail.
This is true; sad, but true. While I would like to see an HO-scale RTS, it got a fair amount of coverage in other scales. I am glad to see they did the Flxibles as hardly anyone else did them; those who did were not cheap at all (i.e. Pirate Models and the resin company who did the 1:43 scale Metro D). Overall, it's a great model and one of my favorites in small scale.
-F.
started nyct 8/20/79. 132 st depot first day. sent to flatbush- training bus. assigned fresh pond lucked out sent to flatbush 9/79. commute from bensonhurst to fresh pond nightmare. a/c bus only 9015-9029 at flatbush. fleet consist of 8000 batwings 7515-7529 7070-7089 and 6000-6089. also 3728-3732,3706 and 3708. 8000 flatbush av exclusive. saturday night robberies on b41 and assaults commonplace. started with harvey shild killed on b44 for refusing to issue transfer. 11/80 transfer ulmer park. on w37 st threatened by rock throwing gang. bus driver on b11 killed by brick thrown at him. 11/87 transfer to si. retire 9/28/01 actually 10/31/01 annual leave. it was a trick and a treat at times. i began working for nyc hra on 9/28/70. this story end here. it is no lie. i could write a book blx. i also was dispatcher in i988 at 126 st. hope you all enjoy.
Boy that was rough 'hood. You were one brave soul.
What were the seniority implications when you transfered from FLAT (TWU) to SI (Hanleys union)? I assume you fell to the end of the seniority list?
yes you are absolutely right. another chance to start at the bottom. i relieved hanley every saturday on b41 during his short stint as a bus driver.
Yesterday I was at Walt Wiltman Mall and I saw the following.
Sufflok Transit
Gillig Phantoms:941(S54),9610 and 9616(S1)
OrionV: 9913(S23) and 9942(S54)
LIBus
OrionV CNG 154 and 369(N79)
HART
Gillig Phantom #503(9B)
To take both the B18 and B78 their entire length, I had to set up good path(I also saw some interesting things). Here's how it was:
The B13, started out with the 9171 and took it to Jamaica Av., Cresent St.. I got off and waited for the B18. The 5058 came, it only took 8 minutes. I took it to Graham Av. to complete the B18 one way. Then took the 867 on the B43, I rode that to Brodway/Margey Garvey Blvd.. s I was walking towards the B15, I seen the 4014 parked on Broadway, I'm glad it wasn't on the B15. For the B15, I took the 8673 to 98St.. Right when I got off I seen the 9395 on the B78 turning at Rutland Rd., so I chased it down and got it. From there I took the 9395 all the way to Kings Plaza. During the trip I seen Command Bus #4976(former JG bus) on the B100, it looks different from the other CNG RTS's, but I couldn't see how it looks on the inside(Can someone tell me what its like?).
I got off the 9395, and before I went inside Kings Plaza Mall, I decided to take a walk to Flatbush Depot. As I was walking around Flatbush, I noticed something really strange as I was walking through the small park. On Utica Av. I seen an Artic heading towards Fillmore Av.. It was Kingsbridge's 5407(w/o logo patches). It stood there for like 2 minutes then it left. Maybe newflyer can explain this...
After this, I walked to the 7Eleven on Avenue O and got myself a 44oz. soda(finished it was ease) then headed back to Kings Plaza Mall, hung out there until 3:30P.M. and took the B78 again. I waited awhile two buses came, the 4116 was the first one which I rejected. Two minutes later the 4468 came; I rejected that too. Finally the 9416 comes so I take that. From what I've seen all the B78 signs were replaced by B47 ones.
Later got off at Rutland Rd., and noticed something strange, I look up and I see an R142 train that says 5 train. What the hell is that doing on the 1 line? It couldn't be in service. Perhaps some Subtalkers can explain this...
I got the 9031 on the B15, then took the 983 on the B43. I got off at Metro. Av. and seen the 5073 parked right there so I took that back to Cypress Hills on the B18. Then I took the 8152 on the B13. During that trip I was talking to the B13 B/O, about the new B13. He said he does not like it, and is going to change routes as soon as its happens, he said new path is screwed up, and he refuses to take a part in it. I wonder if the B13 B/O's feel the same way...
At Palmetto St. I seen the 3919 on the B52, I thought FP was suppose to wait until September to bring the 3-9's out, that's sad. I went downstairs in subways to ride R143 L-Train once again(I'll never get tired this). Then I went upstairs to take the Q55. I rejected the 4680, and took the 5070 instead(I was hoping for a 9-1 though). And that's all for the day. Farewell B18, and farewell B78(my first and last trip on it was done today)
-
B13- RTS #9171
B18- RTS #5058
B43- CNG Newflyer #867
B15- RTS #8673
B78- RTS #9395
B78- RTS #9416
B15- RTS #9031
B43- CNG Newflyer #983
B18- RTS #5073
B13- RTS #8152
R143 L-Train
Q55- RTS #5070
Perhaps that R142 with #5 signs you saw was running lite from Livoina Yard to go into service at Utica Ave.
[During the trip I seen Command Bus #4976(former JG bus) on the B100, it looks different from the other CNG RTS's, but I couldn't see how it looks on the inside(Can someone tell me what its like?)]
4976 is former NYCT bus 8398. I was on that one or 4967 (former 8399) and recollect that the inside is exactly like any other NYCT RTS transit bus prior to the newer hard cloth insert seats. In other words, Command/NYCDOT has not made any change to the former NYCT interiors on these buses.
i grew up in queens, so it was the green bus lines for me. old flexibles, and old grummans, old rts' and old gmc busses
its 4977 not 4967.i rode that bus a couple of weeks ago on the B100 from Mill Basin to Kings Highway.
[its 4977 not 4967]
You are correct. I appologize for the typo!
plus there's also #4978 which used to be TA bus #8567 i believe.
I hav ahomework assignment and i need some information on ANY flxible bus. I can get pictures of the 1995 model's down here in Puerto Rico but some informATION and statistic's on costs and maintence. If anyone knows anything about this, please send me the web site for flxible buses or if it's grumman buses or whatever. I know that they were having problems before in 1996 that supposedly they were bankrupt. If the site has changed names please let me know jcchasez_pr@starmedia.com.
Also wich is the best train simulator if any1 knows?
john
I was just watching the spinoff to "Sanford and Son" on TV Land, a short-lived show called "Grady". The beginning shows scenes of what appears to be a mid-'60's Flx NewLook (my guess is an old SCRTD bus), on which Grady rides around town. This bus too had that emergency exit door on the side. Wished I had my VCR rolling. Any one else see it?
I saw a small pt of the show,but didn't see that part.But I was watching The Ladies Man with SNL alum Tim Meadows;however there is one scene where he gets chased on to an Orion V done up in CTA colors .
Whats up Guys
Anyone can help me out on this . While driving through Clevland ,Ohio on Interstate 80 ( OHIO Turpike ) i saw a NycTA Mta Artic ,# s covered (5000something ) heading toward Ny . Bus was doing about 60- 65 and hauling ass . It was funny looking at it bounce up and down in the middle. ( could it possibly snap at that speed ? ). I had to get off before i caught it but it was nice to see a familiar vehicle out on the road with me .
Looks like the next batch of NFD60HF'sare starting to head our way.
Right on schedule
It must have been fun to be on that bus. Wheeeeeeee!
Wow, in Ohio of all places. I travel the I-80 corridor pretty regularly and have spotted CTA buses, DDOT buses, and heard about many others. The most interesting thing about an artic being spotted is that they are illegal in Ohio! This is the reason not one of Ohio's many large TAs has a single artic! What's even more amazing is that Ohio does allow triple-trailer trucks on some of its freeways.
That was interesting too, all the Triples from Ups , Roadway , and BHF ( think thats right ) . I also saw a lot of double full size trailers which i never knew could be done . I saw them in IL , IA , and OH . Question , lets say on Interstate 80 , anyone know how far east and west those triples are legal to operate ?
Exactly why are artics illegal in Ohio?
>>> Exactly why are artics illegal in Ohio? <<<
Well, they are not exactly illegal.
As stated in Ohio Revised Code § 306.35.1 Flexible joint bus restrictions.
"No regional transit authority shall purchase or operate any motor bus that is not a straight, continuous vehicle, but instead has a flexible joint built within the body or chassis of the motor bus, unless the motor bus is manufactured or assembled within this state, or, if no such motor buses are manufactured or assembled within this state, within the United States."
As you can see it is a protectionist law to require local sourcing, not an outright ban.
Tom
Thanks for the info!
You see twin 53' trailers on the NY Thruway; my 1999-2000 VTL book puts the max length of a trailer at 48', and trailers used in combinations to 28' each. Total combination length of 65', with the exception of stinger-steered auto transporters (75'), fire vehicles and permitted vehicles (§385). Bus length is capped at 45', but articulated buses are allowed 62'.
The thruway authority is allowed to set their own regulations on vehicle size and weight, and NYS VTL specifically exmepts vehicles from §385 that conform to thruway regulations within a certain distance of the thruway at specific locations.
-Hank
I was riding on an ETB (#14 on Mission St.) in San Francisco on Saturday evening when it jumped its trolleys as it was about to enter an intersection. The driver got off and surveyed the situation and got back on and told the passengers that the bus would be out of service until he could get someone to help him untangle the trolleys. I got off and looked at the trolleys and the wire. The bus was in the curb lane, so the trolley wire was offset to the left of the bus. The trolley poles were crossed and sticking through two separate gaps between the power wires and supporting guy wires. I could see where it was not going to be an easy job to just pull down the poles.
There was a bus stop just across the intersection, and the driver told me there would be another bus along in a few minutes. I didn't see how his follower could get around his bus with the poles tangled in the wire, but he assured me that the bus could just pull down its poles and go around the stalled bus and reattach the trolleys on the other side.
While I was waiting across the intersection a maintenance truck arrived, and after some tugging, the driver and the maintenance person, were able to untangle the poles and get them tied down. I expected them to reset the trolleys and the bus would come across the intersection and pick me up, but that did not happen. The bus, with the poles tied down, started up without a sound, made a left turn at the intersection and quietly drove away.
The next bus came along and I continued on my way. Does anyone know how far an ETB can travel without being attached to the wire? I don't know how far that bus had to travel to get back to its depot, but this was right in downtown San Francisco, so it had to be several blocks.
Tom
As for the trolley poles getting tangled, that IS a sticky mess if it happens around wire junctions, etc. Could cause line breakers to go, and leave a few blocks without power.
As for the ability of the trolleybus to travel without wires...SF's old Flyers of about 1975-1976 vintage couldn't do it. No wire, no movement. The newer ones can travel about a mile with al oad, and maybe two miles without any load.
Up in Vancouver, they ordered their older trolleybuses (early 1980's, I believe) with the battery backup, so they could go a few blocks using battery power at reduced speed. I saw this going on when one of the routes had a construction detour in 1986; there was a maintenance worker stationed at the point where the poles got pulled down, and another where they went back up at the end of the detour.
On both the battery-operable and non-battery-operable buses, when the poles are not against the wire AND not locked down in their holders, the brakes lock up through the interlock system. This prevents the bus from travelling very far with a swinging pole which could be VERY dangerous.
Article in Monday's Newsday:
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-nybus262838543aug26.story?coll=ny%2Dnews%2Darchive
Article in Tuesday's Newsday
http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-nybus272839896aug27.story
A while ago, I was discussing this matter with a friend of mine, and I felt it would be a good topic for this board.
As we all know, the Americans with Disabilities Act mandates (among other things) that certain businesses and services provide accessibility for persons with disabilities. Among the services required to do so are mass transit agencies.
For some time now, buses have been manufactured with wheelchair lifts. In addition, paratransit service (door to door) has been made available to persons who are deemed to be unable to utilize fixed route transit.
Here's the point of contention. While few would argue with the notion that providing disabled persons with reliable transit is necessary and proper, some take issue with the idea that disabled persons need to be given access to the SAME transit options used by the general public, and would prefer to see paratransit services expanded so that there would be no need for accessibility on the buses and subways. The argument has been made that a single wheelchair passenger can cause delays for a large number of other passengers, and that while it is important to provide transit for the disabled, it should be done in a manner so as not to cause service delays for the general riding public. It was pointed out to me that in cases where a wheelchair lift malfunctions (and I don't know how frequently or infrequently that happens), the bus sometimes has to be taken out of service entirely, causing passengers to have to wait for the next bus, or perhaps for the one after that if the next one is crowded, and that in such cases a large number of passengers are inconvenienced due to the need to accommodate one person.
Personally, I have never been late nor had to leave a bus because of a wheelchair passenger, but I'd be interested in hearing of the experiences of other BusTalkers in this regard. Have you ever encountered serious delays because of accessibility? What are your feelings regarding the rights of the disabled to utilize mass transit versus the rights of the general riding public? Should paratransit be expanded so that persons in wheelchairs would not need to utilize fixed route buses?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
If everything goes as planned and everything works in unison, it won't be any real delays in getting a disabled persons on and off a bus. The last two buses I have ridden, where a disabled person was on, the boarding a unboarding of the disabled passenger took a little over a minute. I was surprised how fast they went.
A few years ago, I was delayed for over ten minutes because the wheelchair passenger, who wanted to get off where I boarded (but after I paid my fare, naturally), couldn't get her wheelchair to move and insisted that the driver broke it. Eventually she shifted it into the proper gear and it worked fine. No, she didn't apologize to the B/O or to the rest of us.
I too had a similar situation when traveling home from school onboard a very crowded and late BX22 during a rainstorm in May this year. A disabled passenger boarded the bus when the bus was lightly crowded ( most seats filled). The bus eventually filled up to the doors once it got to Fordham PLZ, and began skipping stops. When it was time for the disabled passenger to exit the bus, basically hell breaks loose. There was no room for the wheelchair to move and passengers were already pissed that the bus was leaking from the ceiling AND the bellows were leaking. The bus sits there for 20 minutes while passengers try in vain to make room, and the bus moves only when about 15 people get off and squeeze onto another bus that actually stopped, and this clears the front stairwell and about 1 foot behind the white line. The Disabled passenger eventually gets off the bus, and I get home about half an hour later than usual.
Paratransit sounds like a good idea, but it sounds incredibly wasteful if a veichle is going to travel around specifically looking to pick up the disabled. Dispatching by calling sounds like a good idea, But a disabled person may not be able to call.
The current system sounds like a good compromise until you encounter problems like stuck lifts on the RTS' and even on the D60 it has happened once. When you try to mix the disabled with mainstream population, conflicts of interest will happen, but it's the best compromise available at the moment.
Hi Fly.....as a rule, paratransit is arranged by appointment, and is a door to door service. Rules vary from agency to agency, but one would normally need to call at least a day ahead of time to order service. I don't know of any paratransit service where vehicles would travel a route looking for disabled passengers.
The need to call ahead for paratransit is one argument in favor of providing access to "regular" mass transit, as disabled persons do sometimes have the need to go places without knowing 24 hours in advance. Those on the flip side argue that if paratransit services were expanded sufficiently, the 24 hour advance notice requirement would go away, and one would be able to order paratransit service perhaps an hour or two ahead of pickup time.
It's an interesting issue, with valid arguments on both sides. That's why I thought it would be good for this board.
>>> Should paratransit be expanded so that persons in wheelchairs would not need to utilize fixed route buses? <<<
A question like that shows a lack of understanding of the ADA. The purpose of wheelchair lifts is to make public transit available to the disabled, not to enable the disabled to get around. If there is a separate transportation system for the disabled, they tend to be put into a "gimp ghetto" traveling with other disabled people, and (before the ADA) going to the few places where they could find access. The purpose of the ADA is to try to "mainstream" the disabled as much as possible so they can go to the same places in the same ways as able bodied people. This enables them to integrate into the society as a whole. Interacting with others increases the quality of life for the disabled, and helps others realize the disabled are real people too.
Tom
First of all, let me say that it is not for you to judge how well or poorly anyone understands ADA. I do not claim to know every detail of every portion of ADA, and I would bet that over 99% of Americans don't, and that includes the people who wrote it. Having owned a sign business, I understand some parts of ADA better than most people, and I'm sure there are parts of ADA that I don't know about at all.
>>The purpose of the ADA is to try to "mainstream" the disabled as much as possible so they can go to the same places in the same ways as able bodied people.<<
I know what you're saying, but by definition a disabled person will not always be able to do things in the same manner as a person without disability. One of the purposes of ADA is to provide the disabled (and we're not talking only about people confined to wheelchairs) with the ability to access businesses and services available to the general public, but not necessarily "in the same ways as able bodied people". In many cases it is not possible for a disabled person to access a business or service in the same manner as a person without disability. For example, where a business is usually accessed by stairs, ADA requires that a ramp or lift be present. Access is thus provided for the disabled, but not by exactly the same means as an able bodied person. ADA requires that certain hotel signs must have raised numbers and braille. In that way, sight impaired people can utilize the signs, though not in exactly the same manner as a sighted person.
Taking it a step further, the purpose of transit is to get people from one place to another. This can be accomplished by various means, just as getting into a store whose entrance is five feet above sidewalk level can be accomplished by various means. The fact that wheelchair lifts on buses are currently required by ADA is not in question here. The discussion I had with my friend, and the questions in my original post, dealt with whether the disabled SHOULD be given access to the same method of getting from one place to another as is used by the general riding public, or instead provided with an alternate method so as not to impact the general riding public. If wheelchair lifts did not exist on buses, and paratransit was expanded so that every disabled person could have his or her transit needs met in a reliable fashion (or at least as relaibly as mass transit does for the general public), would that be a good thing or a bad thing? It would enable people with disabilities to get from one place to another (thereby accomplishing the purpose of transit), just not in the same way as people without disabilities do.....much like the ramp versus the staircase.
Of course some people then couldn't get on the buses with their disabled friends/family and get free rides then if there was separate transit for them.
>>> First of all, let me say that it is not for you to judge how well or poorly anyone understands ADA. I do not claim to know every detail of every portion of ADA, and I would bet that over 99% of Americans don't, and that includes the people who wrote it. <<<
You do not need to get so defensive about it. It was your question which betrays the lack of understanding. Separate transportation for wheelchair bound people is socially unacceptable to the federal government. Transit lines were never given a choice of either wheelchair lifts or alternate transportation (although they were given time to update their equipment).
>>> For example, where a business is usually accessed by stairs, ADA requires that a ramp or lift be present. Access is thus provided for the disabled, but not by exactly the same means as an able bodied person. <<<
Obviously there are some changes to help the disabled gain access, but it would not be in compliance with the law if a business such as a restaurant had only one small room away from the main dining room where disabled persons were accommodated. The Supreme Court said it well in another context that separate but equal can never really be equal.
>>> Taking it a step further, the purpose of transit is to get people from one place to another. This can be accomplished by various means, just as getting into a store whose entrance is five feet above sidewalk level can be accomplished by various means. <<<
There are always alternate ways that a goal can be accomplished. For instance, the purpose of a store like Sears is to sell general merchandise. It has an extensive mail order catalogue. If everything that can be bought at the store could be purchased by mail order, it would not excuse the store from making its premises accessible to the disabled. The purpose of a restaurant is to provide meals to people. But it would not be allowable for a restaurant to meet its duty to the disabled by delivering meals to their home instead of making the restaurant accessible.
The purpose of fixed route public transportation is to provide a network to allow people to travel around an area. The ADA is saying that the disabled are people too. They should be allowed to travel as much as possible as any other person. A separate system is not acceptable.
Obviously there is some compromise, and not every disabled person can be accommodated on public transportation. The purpose of the ADA is make sure all those who can reasonably be transported by public transportation will be allowed to use it.
>>> The discussion I had with my friend, and the questions in my original post, dealt with whether the disabled SHOULD be given access to the same method of getting from one place to another as is used by the general riding public, or instead provided with an alternate method so as not to impact the general riding public <<<
That question goes to the heart of the ADA itself. Wheelchairs anywhere take up more space than a person walking, so cause some inconvenience to others in the area, whether it is a retail store, a restaurant, a theater, or a bus. Prior to the ADA one rarely saw anyone in public in a wheelchair without an attendant. This was because it was so difficult to gain access to buildings and even traveling from one block to another was difficult because of the curbs. Those confined to wheelchairs were not considered for employment in jobs they could do because there was no access to the employer's premises. The wheelchair bound became virtual shut ins in their homes because of the inability to go anywhere. The purpose of the ADA is to return them to society by mandating changes where practical to assist them with access to what able bodied people take for granted. Being able to use public transportation is an end in itself as well as a means to get form place to place.
Tom
You make a lot of good points, and I thank you for your input. What I was looking for when I originally posted, however, was to generate conversation regarding what people think SHOULD be, not what the current law says MUST be.
I take from your replies that you are a proponent of equal access to public transit for the disabled, and I respect that. In fact, I agree with that...but I do respect opposing viewpoints as well, and I was (and still am) curious to see what others think on this matter.
With regard to "separate but equal can never really be equal"....IMHO that would be best left in the context in which it was originally written, as there are some areas where "separate but equal" makes a lot of sense. For example, there are wheelchair basketball leagues, but I don't think very many people would agree with allowing wheelchair participants in a "standard" basketball league. In that case, "separate but equal" works better. It is my opinion that all people should have equal access to all businesses and services, except where common sense dictates that it's just not practical. I'm not saying that transit is one of those areas where "separate but equal" is necessary, but I do invite opinions from both sides.
ADA has brought about a lot of welcome changes. As with a lot of laws, though, some people think it goes too far, and others think it doesn't go far enough. In the case of the friend with whom I had the discussion on this matter, he feels that ADA handled the transit issue in the wrong way. He believes that transit must be provided for the disabled, but in a way so as not to negatively impact the general riding public. He states that when a disabled person visits a store or a restaurant, he or she does not negatively impact the other shoppers or diners, but when a disabled person boards or exits a bus, delays can and sometimes do result, and that it is not fair to place the needs of one person above the needs of many. (I know, it's not really one person....but he was talking about an individual bus.)
All opinions welcome! :-)
>>> He believes that transit must be provided for the disabled, but in a way so as not to negatively impact the general riding public. <<<
His attitude shows a "we" and "they" attitude, separating the disabled from the general riding public. The ADA encourages thinking of the disabled as part of "we," the general riding public. Therefore the question you pose is not so much a transit question as a social question of who should be included as a full fledged member of the general society, and who should be treated as a special class apart from the general society.
Tom
*sigh*
And this all brings us back to that question that burns all of our hearts:
WHY ARE THERE HANDICAPPED PARKING SPACES FOR BOWLING ALLEYS AND OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS OF STRENUOUS MOVEMENT??!!
Actually, having handicapped parking spaces at a bowling center makes sense, because a lot of physically challenged people DO bowl. There are even leagues for wheelchair bowlers.
I have a good question because I have never seen it.
What is the wait time to get someone on an off a NJT or NYCT Express Bus?
We have one person ride our 190 bus but he gets on before I do.
I would imagine it takes longer unless there is a call made in advance. (I think NJT requires that)
Any comments??
Check out the link below for an article from yesterday's Advance concerning the 3rd SI Depot.
Sorry, I don't know how to link a website, so copy and paste.
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/1030455913270249.xml
Last night, I saw Orion 134 from Yukon on the X16 - from Castleton.
Why 134 when CAS has Orions Suburbans?
Also, this morning, saw 170 in the tunnel back to SI.
Persoanlly, at night, certain routes don't have the ridership to justify wasting a MCI on it, like the X18, and sometimes the X13 and X20. I saw a MCI on X18 last night, with at most 15 people on it - give that run an Orion. If it becomes crowded, add an extra run - but I have yet to see it overcrowded.
[Persoanlly, at night, certain routes don't have the ridership to justify wasting a MCI on it, like the X18, and sometimes the X13 and X20. I saw a MCI on X18 last night, with at most 15 people on it - give that run an Orion.]
Would NYCT really save much money by running Orion Suburbans rather than MCI's on certain runs? I doubt it.
When the rest of the C40LFs enter service (whenever the hell that will be), there will be tons more bus moves between garages. Here are the ones I remember so far:
From Bladensburg:
4364-4379: To Montgomery and the Annex. 4380 was moved months before the first C40LFs entered service
9715?-9724: To Montgomery
9760?-9765: Back to Four Mile Run
9776-9785: To Four Mile Run
Various 9300s: To Four Mile Run, Montgomery, Annex and starting to show up at Landover
Various Mid 8700s: To Four Mile Run. These buses were a mainstay at the Annex only to be shifted to Bladensburg around a year and a half ago.
Some 3900s: To Four Mile Run
From Four Mile Run:
Various 8800s: To Landover, Annex and a couple to Montgomery. A weird fact in that over three years ago, 8875 and 8876 were transferred to Southeast and I am not sure why.
From Royal:
9396 and 9397: To Arlington. I wonder if the rest of 9395-9399 were transferred as well.
4300-4309: To Western. 4310 and 4311 were transferred also, but it was an overtransfer, because they are now back at Royal
From Western:
9253-9259: Tranferred to Bladensburg. This might be temporary as when the rest of the C40LFs enter service, these might be relocated again, maybe joining 9251 and 9252 at Four Mile Run
8971-8975: This might not be true, but these have been seen on Bladnesburg routes. These buses began at Bladnesburg when first delivered and since then have been at Montgomery, Landover, and Western
From Southeast (or what is left of it)
4014: To Montgomery. Last year 4064-4070 were transferred to Four Mile Run as well as most of their buses, because of the conditions at Southeast. Most of the buses now running in Southeast and Southern P.G. County now run from the Annex. Southeast still have some buses but not as many as they used to have.
From 14th Street:
9430-9432: To Royal
9252-9251: To Four Mile Run
From Landover:
9421,22,9427-9429, 9441-9446: To Royal. 9447 to my knowledge is still at Landover
9282, 9285, 9286-89: To Four Mile Run. 9281,83,and 84 were transferred in 2001 as well as 9215-9219.
8922 may be running from Southeast or the Annex.
From Arlington:
8923-25: Either back to Southeast, or the Annex
If there any I forgot, just let me know
I've seen 9395 in Arlington as well as 9322, 9323, 9324. I saw 9399 on a Royal route recently.
I think some 9380's have been transferred, too. I believe 9387 or 9388 is running around Alexandria someplace.
A real old move was the 9826-9829 move from Montgomery to Four Mile Run a few years ago.
9618-9620 was moved from Four Mile Run to Montgomery to cover the J8-9 runs becuase of the highback seats.
9647-9650 at Four Mile Run from Western.
Those 8700's look awful. That's my vote for the first Flx Metro B's to be canned.
(Sadly) I'd have to agree that the 8700 Metro-B's are looking pretty bad. Yesterday I saw 4068 on the 2T and it had a small cone shaped device on top like NYCTA buses.
Wayne
I want one!!!
-F.
Those extra cones on that bus are commonplace on most of Southeast buses, with the exception of 4024-4030. My theory was that these buses were tagged this way to make them easier to identify them if the Southeast garage got replace. All of Southeast's buses had them, including the remaining new looks and I think the Neoplans. All of the Orions don't have them, based on the fact that Southeast has yet to be replaced.
They'll most likely be the first to go along with maybe the non-wheelchair lift 8900's and 9200's just based on the fact that they have no wheelchair lifts. I also think though that some of the non-rehabbed 8800s will go to bus heaven also.
Bus heaven? Like....scrapped? Doomed to NIMCO?!?
I don't like to see them go, but yes alot of them are in bad shape. I remember seeing the first Metro in December of 86, when they first entered service. I didn't get to see a number, that came when I was heading to school the next day, which was 8745. The first one I rode was 8732 both of them on the F14. These buses was with WMATA during the dark years and the now the good years. It's going to be sad to see them go. I also remember when they first entered service the 8700's were really "jacked up", in that the back was hitched high in the back.
Yeah, I was on an 8700 around then on the R2 after school one day. Took it just from Northwestern High to PG Plaza even though I could have just stood there and waited for the C2 that took me directly home. Flx Metros didn't start showing up on the C2 until the 8900's popped up on Saturdays as they were using Northern buses for awhile before Montgomery opened up on weekends. Then, the 9200's became the first Flx Metro's to be used on a full time basis on Montgomery runs I believe.
I remember seeing Northern's 9200s running on the Montgomery routes as well as the Montgomery 9200s. It was kind of odd seeing that, but back then I didn't realize Montgomery was only open Mon-Fri. Maybe someday, Royal will be open seven days a week.
And yet no buses are scrapped yet? If this was in NYC....some buses would have been scrapped by now!
The only buses that seem like they are heading for the scrap yard seem to be the MANNs, when they are replaced by the Neoplans, officially unveiled on October 20th, place and time to be determined.
The Flxible Bs (most notably the 8700s, non-wheelchair lifts 8900s and 9200's) have a stay of execution for now, because they might be needed for expansion of service. When the next batch of CNGs come in, those buses might not be so lucky. In terms of bus moves, the ones this year might pail in comparison to what will happen in I would assume late 2003, early 2004 when 250 CNGs replace practically every bus at Four Mile Run. That one is going to be monster.
In the bus study, they talked about over the road coaches being used, but it is up to WMATA to buy them and have routes for them in order to be used in service. They also have some routes that can use them now (ie. the B30, 5A, J5, 14A-D), but what are the chances of actually see these coaches in service.
I heard from a source that WMATA wanted to buy them years ago, but a representative from VA who is on the WMATA board said the money could be used for other things. I'm sure Fairfax County is eyeing taking over the Centreville routes (12 line) and the Chantily runs (20 line). They already took over the 20A, which is a Fair Oaks/Vienna Loop and are always looking for ways to take over other WMATA runs. Years ago, there were rumblings the Q2 would be taken over by Ride On, but I think that's out the window, although, they do have the buses capable to handle a heavy load like the Q2.
I think it would be a good idea for WMATA to get over-the-road coaches. I think they're a good for the routes W.E.S. mentioned as well as the C18 and the express Z routes.
Wayne
Most transit properties which have purchased OTR coaches recently have opted for 45-foot models. Even 40-foot OTRs tend to have greater seating capacities than their transit counterparts. With regards to WMATA, do you support the use of OTR coaches for capacity or comfort? We all know WMATA has several transit coaches with suburban-style interiors. What have been the shortcomings of these units? And, would the lines they are used on stand to benefit from greater capacity?
Don't get me wrong, I like intercity coaches, but I think introducing a whole new type of coach to the fleet might be unnecessary when a little modification to the existing style of buses could do the job...
(although I really like the idea of an MCI D4501 in Metrobus colors!)
As said in an earlier post, these buses would most likely be used in long haul routes. There are not real challenges to the transits used as surburbans by WMATA just it might bring in more money for WMATA using over the road coaches for some of their express routes. I read somewhere that buying a 45 foot coach would bring in more money than a
40 foot over the road coach (for obvious reasons, the greater length).
Also sad to say it would be a more appealing to those who wouldn't ride a regular transit bus based on the perception that a transit bus smells and that a over the road coach doesn't. It is not the bus that smells it is the people who ride them, who need to take a bath or use some deodorant.
I's say a bit of both. Actually - I think WMATA doesn't have enough suburban-configured transits. At this time those buses are often used on local routes and they're beginning to show some wear-and-tear. I think WMATA would benefit from a few D4000's in the fleet because they're more comfortable and I think people would be more willing to board one.
Wayne
Yea, the B30 buses are starting to look like they need a vacation for a while.
If they do, they had better not mess those routes up, like they did the 5 routes, when they took them over in 1994. I remember seeing the 5S, before being axed. When that bus got to Tyson's Corner that bus would already be packed, and would be standing room only when it left, just because that so many people were getting on at Tyson's. It seems that those routes that have taken over the 5S are just now, within the past two years are filling to the level the 5S had left them.
That would have been a shock to see the Q2 running via Ride-On. I know they took over the Q4, just when the Wheaton extension opened and it hasn't done badly. Ride On would have to buy sixty footers to carry the patronage on the Q2, or a ton of forty footers, because those 35 footers and those few forties they have would not do. Thank goodness that plan is off of the board.
Also in respects to Fairfax Connector, I believe they have three bus routes are non-WMATA takeover routes, those being the 200s. Everything else is WMATA routes and even though I ride their buses, I am not a fan of Fairfax Connector, just because they took over so many WMATA routes. Can't they create routes of their own and not take over WMATA's. I can think of a couple of routes linking Springfield Metro Station to George Mason University and to the Fair Oaks area. And what is up with the 404/15K and the 306/17A routes, are these routes going one way or another?
The 5S was a great route. I used to go to West Falls Church on Saturdays and take the hour or so ride to the Reston Town Center. There would be a whole mix of buses used, even on Saturdays. I would usually end up on a Metro D, but I'd even see Fishbowls on there, the really old ones with the batwings, but never rode on one on that route. This was around 1993 or so, just before that route was taken over.
I thought the guy who told me this about the Q2 was on drugs, but it seemed possible at the time with the way that the local governments were in dire straits and were cutting costs. But, like you said, that wont happen with their current fleet. They'd have to run it every 10 minutes off peak to handle the load.
Those midday Fairfax Connector runs are weird. It must be odd when there is the overlap to see a WMATA bus running the route one way and Fairfax running it the other way. The 404 is one of the few lines that go to Arlington as it terminates in Rosslyn. I'm surprised they didn't just short turn it at Tysons or something like that.
I guess this is one of those things that will get fixed up with the Regional Bus study. Maybe they can sort out the Ride On takeovers of the T2, Z2 and L8 on Saturdays too.
As many of you know by now New York and San Francisco are the finalist for hosting the 2012 summer Olympics, and Washington/Baltimore and Houston lost out. All I have to say is CURSES!!! It would have been nice to see buses from other operators operating in the D.C./BALT. area and to see some Baltimore buses running in D.C. as well. Well there is still hope for those who want to see the olympics in D.C./Baltimore, in that if no U.S. city is picked, then I am sure that D.C./Baltimore will compete again for the 2016 games. We might have lost based on our horrific traffic jams. Maybe they should have pasted a banner on WMATA 2012 to show how much they want the olympics. If I had to place a bet on who would win for the 2012 olympics, I would bet on NYC getting them.
I heard it was hard feelings between the IOC and Congress due to the things that went on at Salt Lake City. Also, Washington just is not liked by many in this world. Better off not having them here. I would have liked the economic benefits and all, but let someone else have it and deal with that mess.
Also, I don't think DC can bid again for another 10 years. They said the next time they could get the Olympics would be 20-30 years.
I thought it would be DC/Baltimore via NY, considering those two transit systems are slowly fusing together.
I thought it would be DC/Baltimore VERSUS NYC, considering those two transit systems are slowly fusing together.
I could see that. After all, didn't they piggyback an order or two of Flx Metros?
LOL....if it was traffic jams that did in your city's bid, they'd surely not be considering New York!
Seriously, though, access to the venues is an issue. As I understand it, the NY bid has most of the venues accessible by water and/or rail, as well as by road, with special ferry and rail service operating. If everyone had to travel by road, that would be a nightmare here in NY.
The US probably wont get either city. Seems to be a bias against The US in the Olympics in general. I've heard the committee is thinking of doing away with baseball and softball (both gold medals awarded to the US) and replacing with golf and rugby. Golf? Rugby? One more reason not to watch the next time around. Its just a big advertisement for the multimillion dollar companies anyways.
Did you mean that the IOC is biased against holding the Olympics in the United States? I can't agree with that. In the last twentysomething years, there have been Olympics in Los Angeles, Lake Placid, Atlanta and Salt Lake City. If anything, the U.S. has gotten more than it's fair share of Olympic Games.
It just seems that after everything that happened in Salt Lake with the problems the IOC had and Congress getting involved, its tarnished the relationship. That's one of the reasons DC didn't get it. I'd love for them to be in the states again, but its not worth turning a city upside down to cater to them.
I hear ya. Getting the games in New York would be great for the city's economy, and the improvements made to the venues would remain after the games are gone, but I'm not looking forward to the crowds and the madness. Maybe I'll go to Vegas for two weeks while the games are in town! :-)
LOL, I know I'd want to do that. You could probably get a pretty penny to rent out a place during those times. Good luck to you all though. I love NYC. I can't wait to go back up and ride around more on the transit system.
DO SO AND YOU WILL PERISH!
(unless you take me with you.)
I was watching TV the other night, when all of a sudden I surfed into Sarah Michelle Gellar on E! True Hollywood Story. As they were interviewing her, an LA Flx Metro rolls by in the background. I was elated; two of my favorite things to look at on the tube at the same time. In both cases, I really love their lines! :)
So what buses have all of you seen on the screen lately?
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
Just saw a mid-'60's Flxible NewLook in the opening sequence of a show called "Grady" the other night. This was a short-lived spinoff of "Sanford and Son" from 1975. I noticed this bus also had the emergency exit door on the side (just as the one used in "The Rookies"). It looked to have the same paint scheme as SCRTD. Even still had the front nameplate! Sure wish I had my VCR rolling.
Ack...me too! Where on earth did you find an episode of "Grady"? I've gotta see this!
The other night, TV Land had an 80th Birthday celebration for Norman Lear, and featured a sampling of his shows. To be honest, I don't even remember the show "Grady," which is kinda odd, since I used to love "Sanford and Son". Oh, I'm sorry I didn't have my VCR on. One of these days, I will probably visit the Museum of Television and Radio. There, they have archives of almost every single TV show in history.
Really? Where is the museum, and do they have video archives?
-F.
The Museum is at 25 West 52nd Street in Manhattan, and yes they have archives of almost every television show, so long as it wasn't filmed in kinescope.
Wow...thanks for the info!
-Fred
Well, I caught a fishbowl while watching Home Alone 2 - Lost in New York.
Does anyone know when their runs halted?
1991 was the Fishbowl's swansong in N.Y.C.
Really? I thought the TA ran them as late as 1996. And doesn't NYBS still run some Canadian Fishbowls?
-F.
No, it was 1991 because at that time M.S.B.A. got what was left of the city fishbowls. At the time they had a shortage of equipment, and they sure came in handy during the snowstorm of '92. This was not the only time M.S.B.A. got city equipment. In the mid-'80's I recall M.S.B.A. getting some 8-1/2 foot wide 1975 Flxibles.
The last fishbowl to run at M.S.B.A. was bus #5403 in May, 1997.
Yes, NYBS still has Canadian Fishbowls from 1981, but I don't really consider them a city agency. Sure is nice to still see the occasional Fishbowl running down 5th Ave. in Manhattan :o)
Yesterday, I went to work and we got a nice little field trip to Blacksburg all day, courtesy of our boss. We went over to Virginia Tech to check out their Horticulture Garden. While we were there, two of their 2002 New Flyers (5201 and 5202, respectively) rolled by on the Hokie Express route. Supposedly, they still have their Flx Metro "B"s in service but sadly, I did not see any, which makes me concerned about their whereabouts.
Also, while in the garden, I came across some bright maroon flowers that really caught my eye. They were Celosia Argenteas, which are known as "New Look" flowers. (I found that interesting as maroon is one of their TA colors and they also used to run 5303s and Flxible New Looks!).
I also made a conclusion; you know you are in the greenhouse when every plant seems to be named after an album by The Police. :)
-F.
For a few weeks now, I've seen nothing but 8602 and Access-a-Ride cutaways in College Point storage yard. Does anyone know where 2679 and 6179 have gone?
Wasn't 6179 a 1972 Fishbowl that was used by the city as a training bus? That bus had been given to M.S.B.A. several years ago along with 51-5500 Blitz rebuilds. Those buses now reside in the Riverhead scrapyard, and IMHO much as I hate to say it, I would think 6179 is out there too. Can anyone confirm this?
Yes, 6179 was a training bus
Where is the yard in College Point??
Flushing :). It's in the industrial park at College Point Blvd & 40 Rd. Look out the south side of a passing 7 train east of Flushing Creek, and you'll see a lot of Access-a-Ride buses and a 30-foot Fishbowl.
OOOHHHHHH!!! I forgot about that. I wonder why I didn't think of it. Lemme guess, that's more space for Casey Stengel or what?
It's more like a junkyard. If you're on the Flushing-bound 7, look out the right side of the train as you're passing over the Van Wyck Expwy. You'll see the "storage yard" right below you.
i'm originally from new york. i've lived in las vegas nevada for over 9 years. out here we have flyer busses, low boy flyer busses, flyer articulated busses, n.a.b.i. low boy busses, n.a.b.i. articulated busses, some gillig busses, a couple of older r.t.s busses, some eldorado busses. the transportation is alot better, but the heat out here gets to alot of the busses, it can be 100*-125* in some neighborhoods, for months on end. they do the best they can with what they have out here, we have about 250-350 busses. i miss new york dearly, but i'm sort of making it out here.
greetings from sin city.....
I've had the good fortune to be in Las Vegas several times in the past few years, and thought the bus system has come a long way in the past decade or two so that it now provides decent service. And, as you point out, from a bus fan's perspective, there is good variety in the fleet. However, I'm not sure that I like the new paint scheme any better than the old, which I did like quite a bit.
right. when you live here the color really doesn't matter. they recently got about 5 or so flyer low boy natural gas busses also.
i miss new york dearly though.....
Transportation improved a thousand percent in Las Vegas the day that CAT started and the old Gray Line operated "Las Vegas Transit" stopped running. The old operationhad few routes, crappy buses, and a really crappy bunch of drivers. They had the snottiest, most uncouth attitude toward customers that I have EVER seen.
I'm with you on the paint schemes...the new blue and gold isn't half as "lively" as the teal and magenta.
this is cool. this is my first time posting on here. it still is no new york transportation though..... :-(
[I'm with you on the paint schemes...the new blue and gold isn't half as "lively" as the teal and magenta.]
For anyone interested in seeing photos of the two schemes, go to:
http://groups.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us
Click "pictures" on the left, go to page 2, and look for my 3 Las Vegas CAT photos. (Unfortunately, the photo of the slightly different scheme for the newer CNG New Flyer low floor buses came out horrible, for which I appologize!)
thank you for the web site info...
Hi Scott....I moved BACK to NY from Las Vegas about a year ago, after seven years in Las Vegas....it's nice to be back, but there's a lot about Las Vegas that I miss.
As for the bus system there, it sure isn't anything like New York's, but then again it doesn't have to be. I didn't ride CAT very often, as I usually drove to wherever I had to go, but on occasion, like when my car was in the shop for repairs, I did utilize the bus service. Most of the time, the buses I rode were well maintained and comfortable, and the drivers were courteous. I did have a couple of instances where buses were quite a bit behind schedule, but that was on routes that traveled through areas where road construction was being done, so it was understandable.
I really liked the automated announcements on the newer buses, letting you know which cross street you were approaching and what bus connections could be made there. As for the color schemes, I liked the old one better. The large cat logo on the new scheme is nice, but I'd rather they had kept the old colors.
By the way, welcome to the board!
The new colors SUCK! They blend in with the desert too much! I can't tell the bus apart from a rock!
One of the good things I can say about the CAT system is the high number of bus stops that have shelters AND benches.
even with shelter here in vegas, it still doesn't help. it can get into the 120's here.
It's better than nothing, and nothing is what we have here in NYC.
New colors? You mean they are doing away with the magenta and teal?
Yep,it's now navy and gold(at least some of them)
Weird. I like the older scheme though; it's so vivid and colorful. Metro-Dade (Miami) has adopted a new scheme in similar colors, but I like their lime green and blue stripes so much better. Call me old school; I feel the same way about WMATA.
-F.
Yeah....and most of the people I've spoken to thought the old colors were much nicer. Just in case you haven't already seen them since you posted, the following info from Sid's earlier posting will direct you to his pics:
[For anyone interested in seeing photos of the two schemes, go to:
http://groups.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us
Click "pictures" on the left, go to page 2, and look for my 3 Las Vegas CAT photos. (Unfortunately, the photo of the slightly different scheme for the newer CNG New Flyer low floor buses came out horrible, for which I appologize!)]
Thanks to Sid for those pics!
My vote's for the magenta and teal. Saw the new sceme my last trip out there in April 2001. The magenta and teal seems more 'southwestern-y' to me.
I was told that the magenta and teal was dropped because Phoenix also used that color combination too ....though CAT used it first. Sounds like a hokey reason, but it came from someone within CAT's maintenance department!!!
Yeah...that's a pretty poopy reason. I mean, come on...look at NYCTA and Baltimore MTA, for crying out loud.
On another note, not many have copied GRTC in Richmond, VA....purple and white, a rarity for a transit bus!
-F.
Purple just doesn't seem appealing especially on a transit bus!
Richmond seems to go for those oddball liveries...their tan and red-hockey-stick wasn't exactly appealing either.
Yeah...and it really looked like crap on the Flx Metros. I mean, these things looked more like rolling ads for Home Depot than a regular transit bus! The later white with purple stripe was actually more appealing on these.
They have changed their colors yet again though...now they are all white with the back half diagonally done in all purple. This is just tacky as hell! I know the newer Gilligs came this way, and I hear that the 1991 Metros have been redone that way as well. For shame, Richmond! And if you eliminated the black around the windows in the process, then your Flxes must look like a rolling abomination!
-F.
i also miss the blue nyc busses.... god bless everyone as tomorrow is 9/11, i will be thinking of everyone out here in sweaty, hot, las vegas nevada......
I'll drink to that. And I will think of everyone here in hot, sweaty Roanoke, Virginia. I will ride a bus for all of you.
-Fred Donaher
this whole town is hokey.... i miss the green bus lines green busses. i was born and, grew up in far rockaway, and since then green has alweays been my favorite color....
Green is such a groovy color for a bus. Ever been to Detroit?
i've never been to detroit unfrotunately. are the busses green?
To say our buses are "green," that's a bit of an overstatement. Yeah, the DDOT buses have thin, yellow and dark green stripes below the window line, but the buses are mostly white and have cheap, drab black rims. It's a paint scheme that was last revised in 1986 (and that was only a minor variation of a 1974 scheme), and it's not anything impressive to look at. I gave Trevor Logan scads of DDOT pics; hopefully he'll post them on TransiTalk soon.
Yeah, I'm not feeling those black steel rims...it looks like the bus had a set of hubcaps stolen in a bad neighborhood. White wheels or Alcoas would improve the looks of their buses dramatically. And you guys have a lot more green inside and out than most TAs. I like it!
-F.
Please see http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=55677
supposedly they are. i mean, i have the road champs flexibles that they did in magneta and teal and i know you are doing a bus for me-whichever color you used is okay by me.
Good deal. The Mercedes CAT bus is all finished, and the 30' Suffolk Gillig is getting smoothed out as we speak. One final bodywork is done, it will be ready for paint and decals.
-Fred
thanks fred-cant wait to see them when done. noce they arrive, ill try to scan it so people can see them here on bustalk.
Awesome; that would be great. I'd love for everyone to see my work...thanks Simon!
-Fred
yes, they are going to a gold and blue color, on white background.
thank you for the welcoming. it's not only the transportation here, but also the HOT weather as well as some of the people you meet that is different, or in my eyes bad here.
greetings as well. I love CAT-Las Vegas Transit. If you are truely a bus fan, get down to DTC, you can buy Road Chamos Flixible Metro in ho scale painted like the CAT buses(i have 20 of them).
well. i miss new york transportation, but what we have out here in las vegas is getting better every year.
BLX thanks Troy and others that enjoy stories from the 70's & 80's. New RTS buses in Queens (1200 & 1500 series), for once buses kept clean and body damage repaired. One operator came in too close and too fast to a thick low tree branch. Scraped the paint on the upper rear right panel. Hitting a fixed object is 100% at fault, so what scheme does this individual dream up? Go to a hardware store and buy a can of white spray paint. Turn over one of those city wire mesh garbage cans, stand on it and spray paint all the scrapes. Hey, perhaps no one will notice when the bus pulls in late at night. Problem though, it starts to rain and the paint starts to run. The things we did to avoid filling out an accident report. There are plenty of operator's that had safe driving awards for no accidents over years time. Some accidents can be 'flagged'(and many were), no report, continue with safe driving award. It's a fact of life.
safety is attrocious here in las vegas. driver seem to want to really slam on the brakes, i mean like pump the brakes, and make you rock back and forth. i've gotten off of busses with my back hurting before.....
Sounds like there is need for a re-training program there. I would complain about it, but don't forget to get the date, time, and BUS #
I know what you mean,I was on vacation there 3 weeks ago (6th time in 7yrs)and every time I get on the 301;I have too hold on for dear life when standing.
The 301 is probably the worst route to judge by. Strip traffic is awful, and car drivers (especially tourists) tend to make sudden lane changes because they're not familiar with exactly where the entrances to the resorts are....or because they're just plain bad drivers.
Reminds me of a similar story a client told me many years ago while on vacation in FLA with his wife.....Bangs rear 1/4 pnel of a rental car into a hydrant. What to do? He and brother-in-law bang it out from the trunk with a mallet and use some spray paint. When returning the car, deliberately pulls in so check in person is on other side of car. Slips the guy $20 and tells him "I'm gonna miss my plane'. Guy checks off that car is okay.
Moral of story----next time you rent a car do a walk around and check the interior. Make sure that all dents and problems are recorded on rental agreement or ask for another car.
It seems like the hardware store was a savior for many operators during those times.
Troy
I think BLX was the operator on my Q43 buses on the way to Martin Van Buren HS?? Let me explain. The AM trips on the Q43 in the early 1980's weren't like today's school trips. Students headed for MVB gathered on Hillside Avenue and 168th Street after taking the Q4, Q4A, Q5, Q5A(my bus), Q5AB and Q42 from "the hood".
There, some kids would purchase "quarts" of Old English 800 and roll "blunts" or "cheeba" in preparation for the ride on the 43. Most of the we would get a 56/5700 Flxible signed "Special" or "Not In Service". Occaisionally, a 43/4400 fishbowl would come. Once on the bus, the smell of marijuana and cheap malt liquor filled the air. Around 1982, the AM specials stopped and my classmates christened the brand new RTS's (QV had 1276-1282 and 1545-1559) with FIXED windows. Weed + non-opening RTS windows = (you fill in the blank).
Even back then I was a bus fan. Want proof? The first RTS I ever rode was JAM's 1273 on the Q5A. The first on the Q43 was a smoke-filled, beer smelling, 1277.
Mark
Great memories Q5. I could have wrote that same story with the only exception: Students gathering on Jamaica ave and 170th st at the side of May's department store waiting for the Q17A (now Q30) bus. IIRC we also had a special that would run from that location with only one other pickup on 169th st and Hillside ave. Then straight up to Horace Harding Expressway and Utopia Pkwy for the first drop off at Francis Lewis H.S., then right turn for the next drop off at Springfield Blvd and Horace Harding for us Cardozo students. As you said the AM specials stopped for us also so it had to have been around 1981, the year I graduated.
Also, as you said, the buses were usually a 56/5700 Flxible or a 3900? GMC with forward facing seats in the rear.
I remember there was one mean bus operator in the morning who would absolutely not tolerate the marijuana. So he would kick everybody off the bus almost everyday. Then to get even, the kids would purposely not smoke on his bus, then when they arrived at the Cardozo stop, the kids would hang onto the grab bars and kick the windows completely out of the bus. One day they kicked out literally every window up to the first ones on both sides of the bus. This went on for about 2 months, then I never saw the B/O again so now I would assume he picked someplace else to work. Back then I thought he quit. (LOL)
Sadly, I don't recall the number of the first squareback RTS I ever
rode, but slantback #200, the first RTS to run in NYC, was also the first I ever rode, on the Q4 at Hillside ave. The crowds would mob the bus trying to get in for a ride, making any other newlook bus look like chopped liver. The only other bus causing such a stir was Grumman Flxible #100, mostly running on the Q5.
BIG AL
when and if the 3rd depot opens, i was wondering what would be stored there. i was thinking:
route wise:
x22
x17/17
55/56
74
78
and maybe the 59.
what are your opinions.
After taking care of some business Midtown, I took a "C express" from 34St to 14St. Transfer to R143 L at 14St-8Av. Took the L to Graham went upstairs and waited 10 minutes for the B18. During that time, I noticed 8854 from Kingsbridge was there as a training bus. (Damn I wish I had my camera.) I looked at the new B13 guide a ride. It did not state how long it would be from end to end. Also it looks like buses are on a 30 minute headway leaving from Graham Ave towards Spring Creek. I hope there are short turns in Ridgewood. But anyhow, 9578 on the B18 shows up. I get on and ask the bus driver his feelings on the B13/18 issue. He said that the new B13 will have problems and the total trip time should be 1hr20mins. This guy must have time because hes going to the B24 for the new pick. I was the only passenger on the bus until we get Wyckoff Hospital where two other people got on(one of whom got off a couple of stops later). Most of the streets the B18 travel on are very narrow and Wyckoff Ave is too busy. I like the run through the cemetary. We finally end up at Jamaica Avenue and waited for either the B13 or the Q56. Two Q56 buses came: 8688 and 8101. I chose 8688,(I love ENY 8600's). The driver must have been "hot" because we was slow go all the way to Bway Jct. The few pax did not seem to mind. Go to Bway Jct and boarded another 8600, 8697 on the B83 which I took home. Now if the rain holds up, Ill try to do the B40 today.
B18#9578(Farewell)
Q56#8688
B83#8697
I think I was on the B18 with that same driver on the 5073. He said he was going to change for the B24 when the B18 dies. If you read my other post "My farewell trips on the B18 and B78", I said the one of the B13 B/O's is going change routes because he does not like the new B13. He said they screwed up a great route.
I'm worried now, that my favorite route is going to have problems, I really hope it doesn't sink to the level of the Q58 and Q55, because that would just bring tears to my eyes. Seriously, the B13 is the only reason worth living close to FP depot.
BTW, my father said that R143's are going to be tested on the M-Line in Sept.
R143 OPTO service on the M begins 9/8/02. There were brochures at Met Ave. station today...... Senior B18 operators bumped the guys off the B24 who in turn bumped guys off the Q59. So it became a domino effect throughout the depot. A bus operator friend of mine who wanted a job on the Q59 wound up picking vacation relief.
Same thing happened at FLA as well. In fact from what I heard, some ENY guys came over to FLA this pick bumping the regular FLA B/O off their routes.
Last night I saw Atlantic Express bus with X24 taped on the windshield at Rockaway and Pitkin Aves. Later on, I found the same bus parked on Cozine Ave. Are AE drivers allowed to take the bus home after their shift?
I think it's a bit worst than that. I have a friend who used to work for AE and many of them had split shifts. I guess it could be good to use the bus for personal use during the day. My thinking is that... (1) I certainly wouldn't want to work a split shift and (2) I don't think I'd want to hold on to a bus all day.
Wayne
Looks like all the signs are put up. Along Bway, the guide a rides are up. Looks like the B47 will be on 10 minute headways from Woodhull Hospital. IDK if there will be short turns around the Sutter/Rutland station. The maps shows a transfer to the #1 train at Sutter/Rutland, I guess the mapmakers dont know that the #3train makes it return to Bklyn a week later. Ah well just one minor mistake.
B47#9431
i rode several fishbowls last week. they are owned by niagara transit of niagara falls canada. i was in heaven . these fishbowls have been reconditioned. all have power steering,push button transmission and some computerized signs. i know many here at bustalk would love to ride them. they have ac units but none were working.
Many, if not all, of the air-conditioned fishbowls at Niagara Transit are ex-San Diego buses.
Is this the Andy Williams message board? ;)
Are fisdhbopwns like the Subtalkue Boston T party bus?
AEM7
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of the 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & in full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. My supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of the 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & in full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. My supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
I remember the days when the Q17 would go to the Jamaica Bus Temrinal and stand right next to the Q3. The Q17 was a good connection as I would watch studets go from Q3 over to the Q17 and back in the afternoon. Also, the Q17 resembled FLUSHING for the Jamaica Bus Terminal. Those were the good old days! Another memory later!
[The Q17 was a good connection as I would watch studets go from Q3 over to the Q17 and back in the afternoon.]
Why would anyone change from the Q17 to the Q3 (or vice versa) at the 165th Street Terminal? I would think you would save a heck of a lot of time by making the transfer between those two lines at Hillside Avenue and 187th Street.
True but I know students want there own seats. I know a few people who want there own seats. It is very inconvient to stand in the bus.
I was checking out the July/August issue of Sierra Magazine and came upon an interesting article about the Challenge Bibendium, a 250-mile rally to Las Vegas in alternative-fuel vehicles. Included was a photo and paragraph about the "ZEBus", a white and teal hydrogen-powered New Flyer LF.
The coach was claimed to be built by Ballard Power Systems of Vancouver, BC, which is both a lark and much to my chagrin, as these were the folks who helped Flxible go out of business in the early 90s. According to the article, the bus got a standing ovation from the crowd when it arrived. The exhaust spewed only water vapor and hit 70 MPH on the flatlands. Also, you should see the roof tank on this thing; it is so huge ot covers the whole length of the bus.
The magazine said everything could be found, from the New Flyer to a hydrogen-powered 1965 Shelby Cobra. Very interesting article!
-F.
Last night I saw a commercial for the USA Freedom Corps. In it are many patriotic scenes, including a NYPD police officer standing beside a NYCTA RTS. I did not get a look at the number, but the bus looks to be a rehab as it has white porkchops and Alcoa wheels.
-F.
Hmm, talk about patriotic flavor. Maybe it's the fact that they're both blue??
Maybe...or the fact that they are two great public services of the most widely known American city.
-F.