How come the MTA didn't order anymore Nova Buses? Did Nova Bus run out of business? And Where is Hybrid Nova #6360? Thanks
dissatisfaction with the company and the need for low floors. nova is not out of business and 6360 was returned to them and the deal for 6361-6364 was cancelled. there was never to be nova 6365.
NovaBus has shut down the RTS plant in Roswell, NM, and the LFS plant in Schenectady, NY, and recently announced they will no longer bid on U.S. bus orders.
Jim D.
[NovaBus has shut down the RTS plant in Roswell, NM]
I don't think the Roswell plant is shut yet, as there are still more new RTS buses due for delivery to Dallas and Detroit or the suburban Detroit operator. Those contracts were signed before Nova decided to get out of the U.S. bus business.
Right, NovaBUS is fulfilling any outstanding contracts before shutting down. Reports have said that MCI has brought the Roswell plant.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Really? So MCI may continue production of the RTS? I hope so.
With their diversified product line in OTR coaches, there is no reason why they can't enter back into the transit coach industry, at a time when their potential product line is sorely needed. MCI is a proven manufacturer, and many of their older products are still on the road to this very day.
It sure would be neat to see them produce new Flx Metros and RTSes side by side; that would be the ultimate dream. Besides, with a full factory just waiting to pop out more RTSes, and the Flxible tooling they have been sitting on for five years, they have the potential to do many great things!
-Fred
You're forgetting one thing - MCI built that plant in the first place back in the 70s. It was built as the exclusive source of MC-8s and 9s for Greyhound and affiliates. When the MC-9 got big, the Roswell plant also produced MC-9s and the various A-series models for independents. When MCI bought the RTS in 1987, they produced intercity coaches and the RTS side by side there until they sold the plant to Nova.
More than likely, the Roswell plant will likely be the "consolidated" plant that MCI has threatened for the last year. Close Winnipeg, close Pembina, close Mexico, build everything under one roof, save money.
EEP...I don't like that idea. Not only could it screw the chances of further RTS production, but it will also obliterate precious jobs!
Thank you for that bit of history; I had no idea that was originally an MCI plant to begin with before the RTS came along. So MCI was behind the RTS purchase in 87...I assume TMC was an affiliate of them?
I never thought those were technically MCIs through those years!
-Fred
Correct, TMC was a spin off from MCI, there are several MCI coaches roaming around this earth with TMC manufacturer's plates, mainly buses built in the late 70s to the late 80s. I can tell you for fact that Rockland Coaches 96-A3 Cruisers have TMC builders plates in them with are 1985 and 1988 units.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
That is what I had in mind. MCI creating both the Flxible METRO, METRO-G series low-floor and on the other side the RTS and RTS low-floor. That is the ultimate dream. To shorten this post because I had troubles recreating a new password here and I typed up a long post. If MCI ever do this, boy I think they would dominate the transit and motorcoach market. Flxible is a popular bus across the states. With there design team, technology, parts, name brand, ect., wach out baby. My main bus the METRO will dominate!
As for the RTS Hybrid-electric. NJ Transit is going to take three of there RTSs give them to NovaBus I think and start there hybrid-electric program that was under contract to NovaBus when NJ Transit bought their new RTSs. They are going to take the Cummins C8.3 engine out along with the ZF tranny and probably do some surgery to the three to accomadate the hybrid-electric motors and stuff. I have a feely it may look like MTA's RTS #6360.
P.S. Four weeks ago I was on vacation to New Jersey for a week to visit my aunt and cousin. I was extremely excited because I'm going to see listen and ride NJ Transit buses. Mainly the Flxibles. I enjoyed myself, but I didn't rode the METRO-B series. I rode a couple of Flxible METRO-D transits and suburbans, the new RTS, and the new MCI Cruisers. The routes I rode are #190, 72, and 108. Coaches 1426, 1804, 3772, 8284, 7933, 1146, 3778, 7913, 3783 and 1291.
I'm defenitly coming back again!
Thank you and have a great day!
-Ronnie
Ronnie, thank you for the kind words. I agree; that would be the ultimate dream. MCI should do it all; if only they would take a poll on this!
-Fred
Ah...so 2002 will be the last year for the RTS after all. I thought the last ones were made in November but was going by NOVA's website.
Since RTS production began in 1977, that means the design will have run for a solid 25 years. That's almost as long as the Fishbowl was produced (1959-77 U.S., and through 1986 in Canada)!
-Fred
Ouch! Guess that's another great one down!
Why was buses 9440-9443 sent to ENY from Flatbush Depot???
Because it was Summer 2001 pick.
There are no plans to bring back 9440-9443 Novas to flatbush depot anytime soon.
Trevor, just curious; where did you come up with TOR-nado? That's a neat handle.
-Fred
Trevor is different and he likes to show it.
-Hank :p
Nothing wrong with that, Buck; I do it all the time!
-Fred
One day I was driving the very first Route 45 bus to the Port Authority at about 4:53am out of Mt Ivy/Haverstraw, NY. Now I was substituting for someone, and he usually runs the route and few minutes late. I hate being late so I was running the route on-time, which apparently made a few regulars miss the bus.
I pull into Spring Valley Bus Terminal and all of the people who I dusted between Haverstraw and Spring Valley and hopped cabs to catch up with me. While in Spring Valley about 7 cabs cut my bus off to let people out who needed the bus. This one lady got on and said, "What the fuck, You're a got-damn Tornado, All I saw was a Red & Tan flash pass my block." Then somewhere along the line I began to run hot, so I sat at a bus stop for two minutes, the same lady said, "Tornados don't slow down, keep going."
All I could do was think about that lady all day long with her comments, when I got home that night I figured, hmmmm why not make that my new BT/ST screen name since we have a fresh start here.
Now about the way its spelled, I use TOR-nado, with the TOR capitalized because the company I work for is Rockland Coach/Transport Of Rockland. Since the first three letters in tornado is TOR, TOR is the abbreviation for Transport of Rockland, get it?!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
GREAT STORY TREVOR
LOVED IT!
I hate being late too, but you can't be early either! Gotta be there on time!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
I agree that was very creative Trevor.
T.Beverett
I agree that you must be on time and Trevor said he was on time but what makes it hard is when a driver has his or her people trained. They are not used to used you and expect you to do everything the same way whether its a courtesy stop or wait for latecomers. I took over a run in April and some of the people didn't put their hands out to signal for the bus. Once I almost passed them up then they have an attitude with me. I'm not a mind reader especially when 4 different lines use one stop and they know you are not the regular driver.
T.Beverett
I heard that...I learned all about it in Blacksburg!
-F.
Hey....that's pretty slick! I figured part of it was a TA's initials. One time I had something similar happen; I was going so fast in the car one night that people called me the Road Runner.
Hey, if they don't like my driving, they can BEEP-BEEP....LOL!!!
I was looking through the list of upcoming filings for the positions at NYCT. I was wonder what does a Traffic Checker do, and what are the hours like. To a lesser extent, what is pay like?
Thanks for your responses!
Tony
they count passenger load on nyct buses and subways. pay is good however you are not guaranteed a full weeks pay. you will be reqiured to work in all boroughs at any time 24 hours. checkers report to bus depots to which they are assigned dail
If you want to further a career in transit, do not apply for the checker job. If you're looking for something short-term, with part-time hours, and don't mind standing outside in the elements any and all hours of the night, then the job is for you.
I've heard many horror stories from checkers. Poor/no benefits (healthcare), refusal to take bathroom breaks, harassment from management, no seniority rights, disciplined for "sitting" or sitting in the "wrong seat" on buses, etc. etc. etc.
I believe the pay is about $12/hr. Most TC's will never be promoted.
Brooklyn >>>>> RALF / ST JOHNS
Ill never foget the day i saw a female traffic checker sitting on a milkcrate at 3 am being hounded from all the drug dealers in the area . Poor girl was so scared . I worked a Hawk on the 45 that night and believe it or not , on all my trips , she never moved.
I use to do that job, in fact a filing is coming up for it this fall.
I'm looking forward to bus operator. They should get back to me after the summer.
Hey Brooklyn67, Im happen to be a MaBSTOA Traffic Checker & i have heard all the horror stories from other checkers but it had been changed when the new Senior Director Traffic Checker Operations took over in February, 2001. He changed Assistant Field Mangagers & Superintendents to diffirent shifts also Communication Desk Personnel too. If the Checkers had a Disciplined than they go straight to Union Rep & they take care of business. Right now im making $12.31 an hours with good benefits & work over 30 or more hours every weeks depends on my assignment also my shift is AM/Midday. Here what Traffic Checker get benefits & other.
Dental & Hospital Plan for 120 day after 6 months working.
Vision & Medical Plan after one year working.
No promoted but checkers can move up in the office or other if they have execellent recond.
Also Checkers won't get disciplined for sitting wrong seat because i know alot of checkers are not confortable sitting in front seat.
They are doing to drop overnight shift because there are very little works.
Rumor that Union Boss want Traffic Checking Operations to be full time by December if they agree with the new contracts if not than we will stay part time.
Right now we are short of Traffic Checkers Operations.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
I'm thinking about becoming a traffic operator. I'm a college student and I gradute in December (I'll walk in May of 2003). Can I apply to tke the test or what should I do first? My dream has always been to work for the Department of Buses!
forget it,the test already happened almost a year ago.i took it and passed it.but im well into the 300's on the waiting list so it'll be a few years before im able to work that job,hell hopefully by then the test for train conductors happens.thats what i really wanna do not traffic checker but that one is a start and at least i will work for the TA.
Gee, thanks for your answer.
sorry to burst your bubble man,but youll have to wait till next time
Actually, according to the MTA website, the test is coming up later this year. I'll get that date for you. I'm pretty sure of it.
another test? well good luck on it then.
Thanks! I'm going to need it!
if you want me to tell you how the test might be like let me know.i dont like to give away spoilers without permission
what a coincidence that i took a test for this job almost a year ago, i passed it and now im on the waiting list.and boy its a LONG wait.
traffic checkers collect data,jogging down the number of passengers on the bus or train and how many people go up and down a particular stairway at a subway station and other things.the hours are just the same 8 hours a day.but my try with this is part time so its only gonna be 2 or 3 days a week which is fine by me.and the pay...well its about $11.83 an hour.hope that helps
Department of Buses Changes
1-Extend B-8 from Brookdale Hospital to Rockaway Ave
2-Extend B-14 to Loring Avenue
3-Combine B13 and B18 into one route to be known as B-13
4-Combine B-40 and B-78 to form B-47
5-Reroute Q-27 into Queensboro Community College
6-Extend B-68 to Stillwell Ave(replacement for Q Train)
Department of Subways
1-Cut back F and Q lines due to Stillwell Ave reconstruction
2-Adjust N and W lines due to Stillwell Ave reconstruction
Note-Midnight hour N trains to terminate at Pacific Street and not 36th St N to operate express all times between 59th St and Pacific Street
3-Extend R Shuttle from 36th St to Pacific St
Thank You
Can someone explain how the reroute for the Q 27 will work out?
It would be best if the B8 destination signs read "M Gaston Blvd" instead of Rockaway Av since it is most likly going to terminate where the B 35 is currently for turn arounds.
The Q-27 will enter the campus for a short distance and stop at a stand to be located
The B-8 will not use the B-35 turn around. Route as follows:
Hegman Ave to Rockaway Ave
Right Rockaway Ave to Linden Blvd
Right Linden Blvd to Church Ave and regular
Thank You
The Q27 extension into the QCC campus has been on the drawing boards since the early 80's, perhaps the late 70's as well.
[The Q27 extension into the QCC campus has been on the drawing boards since the early 80's, perhaps the late 70's as well.]
Yeah, but this time the college is spending money (and doing construction) to accommodate the buses.
BTW... only the weekday local trips will be rerouted into the college, and only when the college is open.
Okay, how is this going to work? You mean that when the Q27 goes to Flushing....it will go up 56th Av to QCC and then in the parking lot, then out onto 56th Av cross Springfield Blvd and regular into Flushing? Same for Queens Village bound? Also, does this include the LTD service as well or will QCC be the LAST STOP? Or Horace Harding Expwy be the last stop?
[You mean that when the Q27 goes to Flushing....it will go up 56th Av to QCC and then in the parking lot, then out onto 56th Av cross Springfield Blvd and regular into Flushing? Same for Queens Village bound?]
Yes on both counts. The college is giving up Parking Lot #5 (a small lot which sees little or no use, behind two "temporary" buildings, close to Springfield Blvd) and constructing an off-street bus zone.
- - - - -
[Also, does this include the LTD service as well...]
Just the locals, at least for now.
- - - - -
[...or will QCC be the LAST STOP? Or Horace Harding Expwy be the last stop?]
Short trips will still start/end at the old familiar Springfield & Horace Harding.
Does anyone have a diagram ,,or can draw me a diagram of this "lot"-
Thanks
Steve
From My personal experiance
That will be a daily 10 minute nightmare .Ist of all the traffic,the intersection is basiclly one lane each direction with bus stops on all 4 corners and it gets backed up from that alone during the day.
unless they move the the B 60 stop and put a on Rockaway ( which no one will obey)The B8 will have problems making that right turn.If there is a 60 in the stop, the bus is not even gonna be able to safely conduct the turn.The amount of passengers running to catch the other two buses ( 15 & 35 ) and cars trying to get around the buses. I can now picture the dispatcher at that post turing into a flag man.
Question: What's at Loring Avenue that justifies the extension of the B14?
a New MOVIE COMPLEX
Barry,
No offense but is this info true? I remember "FDNY" posting this info and that for the most part was true. I'm just asking because my mother works at Queensborough Community College and she walks down Cloverdale Blvd crossing over the LIE after getting off the Q30 on Horace Harding Expwy and Cloverdale Blvd. Thanks!
I saw it in the offical NYC transit Commitee June Report which is available at the New York Public Libary 34th Street and Madison Avenue
Thank You
If you need info on any items in the June NYC Transit Committe committee agendas,,at anytime
=--feel free to call me
--remember,,,July and August are combined
914 668 9218
--after July 11...leave a message
Steve
FDNY
nyc police on footpatrol are to do routine checks by boarding buses. here is the url for the story in the daily news
http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-07-01/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-156090.asp
I'll believe that when I see it. I'll let you all know when the first "foot patrolman" boards my bus in Jamaica.
Until that time, rest assured, I'm on my own.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I'll post here when I have to do a report on a police officer who made an arrest while he was riding, I mean 'patroling' one of the buses. I wouldn't look for that post anytime soon.
BIG AL
the only time they ride is if they are going back to the pct. before the merger of ta police and nyc police the bus patrol use to go around getting drivers pass #s and names for their log sheet. they would come on and ask if everything was allright.
Now entering week 3 of the bus strike and it almost seems like past news. What is going on? I havent heard any news about what is going to happen in the past week. Any updates? Anyone have inside information? Am I ever going to have my QM1A express bus back? Im sick of the subway already....help!!!!!
I think Bloomburg will move that all Queens private bus lines be awarded to TA.
If that's the case, all current private drivers lose their jobs.
They're not coming back without their demands met. They want a comprehensive comparable health and benefit package akin to NYCT as well as an employee protection plan guaranteeing lifelong employment, regardless of franchise awards.
You will not have your QM-1 back unless
a) the city appoves their prior contract offering, with the addition of an EPP package.
or
b) I'm behind the wheel of that QM-1 (which is highly doubtful, at best and next to impossible with all the factors involved).
Enjoying the Q-46?
The true losers in this strike are the riders left stranded without bus service. The politicians don't give a crap about them - the only reason Bloomberg is pushing his MTA takeover proposal is to get out from under the City's current $167 million annual subsidy. Nobody in this whole mess is looking out for their best interests.
As to union membership, they appear to be ready and willing to flush the best job they'll ever have down the toilet. But, hey, maybe they can organize the workers at their next job and picket Burger King for benefits equal to the McDonalds workers and a guarantee of 'lifetime employment'.
JD
If Wimpberg would just give a damn about Queens bus riders and drivers this whole thing would be over. The City owns the buses, so this is a city issue. This whole "I'm not a party to this issue" just doesn't sit well with me. His message to Queens is "drop dead". Wimpberg is just being an asshole. I think he should try commuting from eastern Queens without the buses, maybe then he'd give a damn.
I had to laugh: Sen. Chuck Schumer pickets with the workers at Triboro Coach on Sunday. Mrs. Chuck Schumer is Iris W******** (can't spell it!), the head of the New York City Dept. of Transportation. Friction in the household?
Sounds like Chuck & Iris are covering all the bases ????
There was a rally at City Hall last week. Queens Boro Pres. Helen Marshall publically asked Mike B. to join them at the barging table.
The political group with the strikers numbered about two dozen at City Hall's steps.
There was a meeting scheduled for Monday night, but I don't know with whom.
Bloomberg spokesman Jordan Barowitz said "... no one's reached out to us."
Disclaimer: The above was lifted from a Newsday article July 2nd. No personal comments were added by this writer & I'm not speaking for nycDOT or Local 100.
It seems rather obvious to more than a few people that this is indeed a city issue. Considering that not only does NYCDOT own the buses, but also provides significant subsidies for the operation costs of the private companies, how could this **not** be a city related matter?
My own feeling is that given the substantial projected budget deficit the city is facing, perhaps this is a ploy to transfer the cost of services that the city is responsible for to the state. On a more ominous note, isn't this a foreshadowing of what could happen in December when the TA contracts come up for negotiation?
As a side note, the QM1 being out of service sure has swelled the ranks on the X68. I say the MCI coaches QV received came just in time!
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Saw these three bombs all together on Jamaica Avenue today westbound around Hollis Court Blvd late this morning.....just crossed my mind if they were on their way to somewhere other than running on to the 30 or 31 in Jamaica....perhaps being transferred to the BX or being taken to a final resting place in a dignified fashion (i.e. not on the hook)?
(You can see what a boring day i had at work since this is all i retained from work)
They were taken to Crosstown, where they await scrap.
Mark
With the bus strike going on week 3, and the Mayor not doing anything to settle it (other than his TA takeover plan), he shows Queens that he doesn't care didley squat about them.
I hope Queens voters remember how Mr.Mayor Wimpberg treated them when there's the next mayoral election, and send him packing.
I never thought it would go on for this long, I feel sorry for the riders and drivers. Mr. Mayor if you're listening, get your sorry ass involved or the people in Queens will come marching to your City Hall.
What do you suggest the mayor do?
CG
[With the bus strike going on week 3, and the Mayor not doing anything to settle it (other than his TA takeover plan), he shows Queens that he doesn't care didley squat about them.]
According to Mayor Bloomberg, the issue isn't whether the carriers' drivers should HAVE health benefits but who should PAY for those benefits.
Basically, he views the bus companies as municipal contractors, no different from any other contractors - e.g. school bus companies, office-cleaning services, construction outfits, consultants, or law firms - that the City might hire in the normal course of municipal business. Does the City make direct, dedicated paymants for these companies' employee benefits? No. Those benefits are paid by the individual companies and incorporated into the contract price.
At the same time, it has been argued, especially by Queens residents and the TWU, that the franchised bus routes constitute a special case because (1) the city owns two of the garages and most of the buses, and (2) the city guarantees each company's profits.
The merits of each view can be debated - but not on BusTalk, please!! - until the next millenium. (For the record, my opinion on the matter will remain my own.) However, as with all things political, the following points are obvious: (1) a solution will emerge, eventually; (2) someone will be happy with the solution; (3) someone will be unhappy with the solution. Beyond that, anything goes.
Yesterday D60HF 1080 smoked out Fordham Plaza something terrible. The exhaust started blowing fire, you never seen people leave a bus so fast.
Good thing it didn't start a panic.
People are jittery enough as it is nowadays.
Blowing fire out of the exhaust pipe?!
I'm no mechanic, but I can say that bus is done until early winter at best (and at worst, well, you guess). Especially with the rising temps.
I sound like the Terbo Chager when out on it. Blowing Fire out of the exhaust ipe is what happen to the CNG's out of JG.
Robert
Well. Today I rode the BXM1 southbound and I notice as I came aboard that the Sticker on the Farebox says"Passengers can request a All Day Pass when boarding south of 125 St". I know they only for LLE and I got a few questions on this.
1. How much is for the LLE Only All Day Pass?
2. What is the All Day Pass for LLE was ment for?
3. How do they issure a All Day Pass?
1)$3.00
2)It is issued for passengers who board (southbound trips) at 125th,96th,84th and/or 79th street (on the BxM3 and BxM4 only) who wish to ride the bus to midtown or visa versa . They can then take the bus with the transfer back uptown for free. For northbound trips they can board anywhere but must get off by 125th street.
3)It is a yellow paper transfer very similiar to the old NYCT transfers.
Peace,
Kevin
So they actually carry passengers within Manhattan? Interesting.
Thanks! And I never knew they to Pick Up's south of 125 St.
Do they let people off at 125 St going southbound and pick up going northbound?
We arent supposed to drop off at 125th going southbound but some drivers will do it as a courtesy. Going northbound we arent required to pull into 125th so dont even bother trying to catch the bus there.
Peace,
Kevin
So the stops at 125th are only for intraborough travel? Strange, given that the routes overall are predominantly used for interborough travel.
So the stops at 125th are only for intraborough travel? Strange, given that the routes overall are predominantly used for interborough travel.
That is correct. It is also a waste for the DOT to print up the transfers. I haven't given out more than 5 transfers within a years time.
Peace,
Kevin
Maybe that's because nobody knows they exist! Essentially, the transfers provide an alternative to the 4/5/6 trains and the M1/2/3/4 buses between the Upper East Side and Midtown, for about the same price.
You are right about not too many people know it exists. Actually they are trying to phase it out. Command used to operate the same type of service called the Gotham Flyer between Midtown and Downtown.
Peace,
Kevin
I notice that NYCTA and Liberty Lines let their workers ride free with a ID Card. Do any other TA's yet their Workers ride free?
I think the arrangement between NYCTA and Liberty is a simple courtesy. They are not allowed to by their managements.
I think he ment within there own system.
Robert
Here in Queens there is an "agreement" with drivers on TA, Green Bus, Jamaica, Triboro and Queens Surface workers to let each other on one another's buses. Offically they're not allowed. I think that is what's meant by "Workers ride free."
Yes the workers ride for free, with the Metrocard Pass that is given to them by the MTA, it has a photo of the Card owner and some other information on the back.
i read somewhere that metro is going to phase out the old MAN artics with neoplans. is this true?
I read that awhile back on their website. I believe the new vehicles are to arrive in the Fall.
Whoops, sorry, guess we responded simultaneously. :)
Great minds think alike!!!
Yes. Metro is accepting 21 new Neoplans, to be delivered between now and October, to replace the venerable MANs, which are still in active service but are looking increasingly dilapidated.
C
can anybody reccomend any sites where i can store my ever growing collection of bus/rail pics (157 mb and growing)? i know that many website providers have a low limit on storage. are there places which offer more storage. i have heard of something called msn communities, i beleive.
Try Yahoo or MSN Communties.
Most of the so-called "free" places will allow only 6-12MB of photos, which isn't much.
My suggestion is....burn them to a CD-ROM and then you won't have to eat up hard drive space on your computer.
CS MCI's are now in service. I saw #2898 with a CS Depot Logos on the X51. And I ask a driver on the X68(9:10 AM Run #4) and I ask the driver if the MCI's sometimes run on the 9:10 Trip and he said yes and he also told me that all QV MCI's are to be in serivce by next week.
I did want to get a MCI on the X68 but I end up getting a Nova RTS #9294 b/c the driver said that there was not any more MCI's aviable. So the driver asked me a Question and I said that I want to ride those new buses and the driver was like OH as he where happy. And he checked a sheat and he told me that the MCI was on the trip before him. So I could had rode a MCI but I came few minutes after that one left.
Can anyone remember the origin and terminals of these long-dead WMATA bus routes? I will post the answers tommorrow.
Virginia:
6
11a/11b/11c/11d/11e
12/14/15 (not their current incarnations)
27
Maryland:
Q8
T4/T6
P13
DC:
40
K4
The ORIGINAL starting point of the L Buses
Hmm, lets see here....
I used to have an old WMATA map and I remember some of these routes. The 6 used to run to DC, I believe Federal Triangle??? I don't remember where it ran in VA though.
The 11's ran to National Airport/Federal Triangle and then to Hunting Towers I believe.
No clue about the 12/14/15. I'll take a guess and say they ran into Fairfax County someplace.
The Q8 ran from Silver Spring to Montgomery Mall via Wheaton Plaza/Congressional Plaza. Its basically the Ride On 38
T4 ran from Dupont Circle to Montgomery College at one time, so did the T6, but they had different routings. The T4 went down 355, the T4 took a roundabout way, but eventually made it to 355
P13-Oxon Hill/Pentagon
K4-Metro Center to Fort Totten. (By the way, the K6 used to run from White Oak to Metro Center during non rail hours, White Oak-Fort Totten rail hours)
40-I think that was Stadium Armory to Mount Pleasant.
I forgot about the L route one. The L4 ran to Kensington at one time and I thought some of them used to go to Federal Triange as well. THe old L6 ran from Wheaton to Van Ness at one time, probably ran all the way downtown before the metro opened.
Ahh, the good old days. I had mentioned in a post a couple of weeks ago of routes such as the J4 and J2 running into PG county at one time to the Greenbelt and PG Plaza area. Here's a couple of others:
F9
G4
G8 (not the current one)
R6
R7
F5
38C
R4 (extra points for the two different incarnations of this route before it was turned in to what it is today)
Ok, here`s the answer to my quiz:
6 - This route ran from the Pentagon to North Farlington and the Brad-Lee area on the border of Arlington and Alexandria. The route then split, with one branch going down N.VanDorn St to Landmark, and another branch going down King St to Royal and Pendleton. The split route was OK on weekdays, but on weekends, each branch had 2 hour frequencies, (1 hour north of Brad-Lee). Today, this route has been absorbed into the 22 and 25 lines.
11a/11b/11c/11d/11e - these routes originated at 10th and Penn (11a, 11b on weekends, and the 11e), or at National Airport (11b on weekdays, 11c,and 11d), went down the GW parkway, then Washington St in Alexandria to King and Washington when the routes split up in the following pattern:
11a/to MT VERNON via Ft Hunt Rd
11b/to ROSE HILL via Belle Haven
11c/to MT VERNON HOSP. via Huntington ave, N. Kings Hwy, and
Richmond Hwy.
11d/to SPRINGFIELD via Franconia Rd
11e/to LANDMARK via Duke St
The 11e died when the Yellow Line was extended to Huntington. Tha part of the 11e on Duke St was folded into the 29k,l,m,n, then the route was broken off to form the AT8.
The rest of the 11's were taken over by the Fairfax Connector.
There are two 11's that were not mentioned. The 11w went to Woodlawn on weekdays, and the only surviving part of the 11 line is the 11y-the MOUNT VERNON EXPRESS.
12/14/15 - The original configuration of these routes was from the Pentagon to Royal and Pendleton. The 12 used Cameron Mills Rd, the 14 went down Mt Vernon Av and the 15 used Russell Rd. they came together and went down King St to the Royal St Garage. Now the 12 is the Centerville buses, the 14 is the Smart Mover to Maryland, and the 15 is the old 5K from Rosslyn to Fairfax via Chain Bridge Road, and the CIA complex.
27 - This route came from Hayfield to the Pentagon via Telegraph Road.
Branches of this route went all over the Franconia area. This route died in '85 when Fairfax County took them over for their
bus system.
In Maryland:
Q8 - Originally ran fron Silver Spring to Montgomery Mall via Wheaton Plaza. Ride-On 38 took over the route between Wheaton and Montgomery Mall.
T4/T6 - Back in the early 80's these routes ran from Dupont Circle to Rockville (Montgomery College). The T4 used Old Georgetown Road, the T6 used Rockville Pk. Today, the J2, and Ride-On 42 and 46 (and a part of the 26) runs on the original T4/6 routes.
The recently deceased P13 was the Oxon Hill-Pentagon line. This line died when the Green Line was extended to Branch ave and replaced with the N11/13 to King St
and last, but not least, in DC:
40 - this bus originally ran fron MOUNT Pleasant to SEAT Pleasant. It was cut back to Union Station in the late 70's (but ran to Mt Pleasant during non-rail hours) then around the early 90`s it was merged into the 96.
K4 - This is the Fed. Triangle to Ft Totten Line. During non-rail hours it was either joined by or supplanted by the K6- White Oak line.
The original starting point on the L buses was Federal Triangle. The buses went down 13 th st, into what is now part of the Reagan Int'l Trade ctr. The buses made a loop in the parking lot that stood there and went northbound. Another bus that used that loop was fron Takoma.
Thanks to 1C/Ballston for getting most of these right!
Alexandria sure had a lot of service. I sometimes wish we didn't have metrorail because the buses used to have some pretty cool routes. Of course, having Ride On, DASH and Fairfax Connector didn't help either since it was 'cheaper' to run privatized services than to have one regional system. Federal Triangle used to be a great place to bus watch since you had the DC routes and VA routes converging. Now, Pentagon is what Federal Triangle was since so many routes terminate there and force people onto the rail.
I remember riding the 11B when I was younger from National Airport to Old Town. There used to be a slew of buses that would come down Washington Street. One time I was on the 9, I believe, for whatever reason stopped at Four Mile Run garage for something, I guess to switch drivers, but it was so cool to pull into the bus garage. It was an 8000 series Flxible New Look ( the ones that had the silver bumpers).
The good old days....
Thanks for taking me back down memory lane!!! : )
Well, back in the day, (early 80's), I rode the 9A from the Mt. Vernon Square apartments to DC (till '81-then to the Pentagon), and the ride was a marathon run. The buses they used was the 8000's, with an occasional fishbowl, RTS, and AM General thrown in for good measure. I loved the ride through Arlington. Back in the day, the bus rode by the Potomac Yard (in Alexandria) and you could see the freight cars being redistributed to other freight trains. Then once the bus got onto Richmond Highway, the somewhat tacky sights reminded me of New Jersey, so it influenced where I chose to live. But before DASH and Fairfax Connector, standing at King and Washington gave me a wonderful sight of Metrobuses going in different directions.
The stop at Four Mile Garage was a cool sight, first to change drivers(the main reason), but on occasion we had to change buses. One day, we traded in a 8000 bus for a 8500 bus. The difference between these Flx New Looks was so startling. The different engines in these buses was startling.
Back in '82, Metro began to run the 1101-1130 V8 GM's on weekends. They were so luxurious, and I thought they were too good for a hardcore bus route like the 9A/B, but those buses did a great time on this route until around '95, or whenever WMATA retired the Fishbowls.
Back in '82, Metro began to run the 1101-1130 V8 GM's on weekends. They were so luxurious, and I thought they were too good for a hardcore bus route like the 9A/B, but those buses did a great time on this route until around '95, or whenever WMATA retired the Fishbowls.
The very last WMATA GM New Looks made in until August 2000. Interestingly, some of the oldest ones lasted the longest. Among the oldest in the fleet were the 1300s, which were 1962 TDH 5302s. Other commonly spotted New Looks at the end of the era were 6400s, 6500s, and 6600s - all ex-DC Transit TDH 5304s. From talking to drivers, it seems like the 1100s were very well-liked. If I'm not mistaken, these were 1971 models and the only V-8 New Looks accepted by WMATA. I tend to think that the 1100s were retired well before many of the other New Looks; at least there were not any around in March 2000, when there were plenty of 1300, 1400, 1500, 2500, 3600, 3800, 6400, 6500, and 6600 buses.
I strongly encourage any additional details on specific batches of WMATA New Looks. I find these buses most interesting.
I know that 6437 is still kicking and is now privately owned by Laddie Vitek. He seems to be quite happy with it; any updates on this one, Laddie?
What was the difference in engines between 8000 and 8500s?
Whwn I moved to the DC area the 8000 series Flxible new -looks were long gone, but from photos I believe they are early to mid 70's buses. It's quite possible they had a DD 6V-71N engine, which is the same engine in the 8500, but the 8500 series has a different tranny.
Wayne
Yeah, there was definitely a distinction between the two engines. The 8200, 8300, 8400, 8500 and 8600 Flx New Looks had a whine to them and the 8000-814x had a rougher sounds. Similar to the AM Generals. I think the last time I rode a 8000 bus was in the early 90's on a trip to Fair Oaks Mall.
I thought it was pretty neat to take the swing through the Four Mile Run garage. I thought I was seeing things at first, especially since I was young and my memory of the youth days aren't that great, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't dreaming or seeing things!! Thanks for confirming that I remembered it correctly!!
The 1000-1100 GM's were great because they were retrofitted with really plush vinyl blue seats and there was some old fahioned art work placed where the advertisements would go.
I like remembering these old routes. It had me thinking of the E5 or E3, can't remember, but it ran from Bethesda (Alta Vista) to Fort Totten via NIH and Naval Medical as well as the routes that used to go all the way to DC before the metro, such as the R4 that ran from Crystal City/Pentagon to Calverton (Beltsville, MD), the G6, that is now the 86, the G8 which is the F8 (The G8 is the route used on the Corgi GM Fishbowl model). It ran right by my childhood home.
Wow, what a neat memory for you. I'l bet you were really excited to see this destination on the Corgi Fishbowl and the custom Flx Metros!
The 8000 and 8100 series must have had an engine similar to the Flx New Looks we had here circa 1976. For some reason, that engine sounded a lot different (more of a whistle) in our 1979 Grummans. Was that the sound you had in the 82-8600 series?
I do know that Grumman took over Flxible in 1977 and that later New Looks were referred to as Grumman Flxibles. Perhaps they changed the engine up a little bit to give it that ADB sound in the last New Looks? I have never rode a late-model New Look, so I'm not sure.
-Fred
Yeah, it was so cool to see the G8 destination. I took a double take at first, because of all routes and destinations, that one was picked.
The 82-8600 Flxibles did have a whistle, similar to the detroit diesel sounds of the 87-8900 Flx metros. I liked the 8000-8100 Flxs. They didn't stick around as long as the other ones unfortunately.
There was also a time in the 80's where WMATA decided to put these lights right under the rear window of the Flxs in an attempt to stop rear end collisions. The middle light would be green when the bus was moving, then two amber lights would blink when it was about to stop. Most of the time, they didn't work. It was an ill-fated attempt, but neat to see when they were working.
RIPTA still has these lights on most of its fleet, primarily RTSes, although not the green. They're actually surprisingly visible, particularly with LEDs, and seem fairly reliable (I have seen some nonfunctioning units).
C
What is it with LEDs? To my understanding they have a lifetime warranty and are reliable, but I am already seeing diodes missing in our 2001 Gilligs. I should hope they would last a little longer at $70.00 apiece!
Yeah, the diodes do seem prone to failure, although Metro's have held up pretty well. I think the general rationale is that
they light up considerably faster than bulb lights, ostensibly improving safety;
while some diodes may fail prematurely, on the whole diode units last much longer (7+ years) than bulbs, which have to be replaced every year or two;
they draw less power and generate less heat -- not that this is really a consideration for bus taillights, but in other applications this can be a plus.
C
All great points. I LOVE LED lights; they are just so awesome how they light up instantly, and besides that, they improve safety. I like them on everything but Flxible Metros; after years of being used to the wraparound lights on those and Grumman 870s, they just make a Flx look like it rolled out of an episode of South Park. If only they made wraparound LEDs for those...I'm certain it can be done.
Oh, I'm with you on that, big time. The wraparounds look so much better. I have seen wraparound taillights on cars that have been married with LEDs without loss of looks -- the new Cadillac DeVille springs to mind -- so I think you're right, if some engineer would sit down and stuff some diodes into a Flxi wraparound assembly, the worldw ould be a better place. ;)
C
You've got that right! And yes, the taillights on the new DeVille look AWESOME when they light up. They would look very good on the back of a Flx Metro....a lot more so than the little roundies!
-F.
Wow, what a neat idea. I have never seen a green light on the back of a bus, but I have seen the amber flashers; in fact, we just got our first fleet of buses here with those when the new Gilligs arrived last fall. They have two flashing ambers when the bus decelerates, and a red in the middle that acts as a brake light, along with the taillights and a pair of matching high-mounted lights on the A/C cover.
All of the lights are LEDs, and due to their configuration, the brake lights form a letter "X" when the bus stops. You should see it; looks really neat.
There was also a 100 series from 1977; I have a photo of WMATA Flx no. 110. Also, I believe the 8200 series was from 1977 as well; in fact, 8282 was for sale in Salem, VA for $3900 OBO back in late 1996.
The 110 numbering may have been carried over from one of WMATA's predecessor organizations as WMATA aggregated their equipment. Thanks for posting that tidbit, though; I'd never heard of that number before.
C
Those 100 series Flxs were suburban coaches with only a front door, luggage racks inside and high back red vinyl seats. Those buses were a pain when they were put in regular revenue service such as the Q2 one afternoon about 10 years ago instead of being used for charter or commuter runs.
Wow, that's news to me. I didn't know DC had ever had one-door suburbans a la NJ Transit. Thanks for the info.
C
No problem! Yeah, they had several of them. Pretty fun to ride, too.
I'll bet they were! When were those suburban Flxes retired at WMATA? Also, did they ever have any Fishbowl or Metro suburbans?
I think years ago there were Fishbowl suburbans, most likely part of the buses run by the other agencies. There were never any single door metros. There are those (9830-9835) that has the highback seats, but that's it. WMATA had one RTS retrofitted to one door (9112).
Are the Metros with highback seats used for commuter runs?
They're actually used on random routes, not really commuter runs.
I see...where's the best routes to find one?
How were they a pain? Because of the lack of a rear door?
Yeah, the lack of the rear door when y ou had a full busload and trying to load an unload passengers. You couldn't really allow anyone on until those in the back could get themselves out. Oh yeah, knocking your head on the luggage rack hurt too!!
Yipes! Bet they were fun to ride otherwise though.
The Flxible 40-ft New Looks had both 6V71 and 8V71 engines. The 1976 order (8000-8144) and part of the 1977 order (8313-8327 and 101-112) had the 8V71 engine. The remaining Flxs (8201-8312, 8401-8661, and the 30-ft 5551-5570 New Looks) had the 6V71 engine. On a side note, 8532-8661 were wheelchair lift equipped. These were the first lift equipped buses Flxible ever made, and were WMATA's first accessible buses.
WMATA All-Time Roster 1973-present
Actually, I think 8401-8661 were wheelchair lift equipped. I remember the 8400's having the two sets of side seats in the front on each side, one of which flipped up for the wheelchairs.
Actually Flxible made several lift equipped buses before the WMATA order. I distinctly remember SEPTA having 2 lift equipped buses 6420 and 6421 in the 1974-75 order of Flxible buses. They also kneeled. These buses were intially assigned to the Callowhill Depot, and used on the D (now 21), 42, and the Mid-City Loop line.
Yes, and I believe Triboro Coach received some 1973-74 Flx New Looks with both kneeling feature and wheelchair lifts. It was funny for me to find out as I always thought of kneel as more of a Grumman 870 feature, and lifts to be more of a post-1990 ADA required unit.
Wow...how neat, New Looks with lifts! Were all subsequent bus orders lift-equipped from the factory?
Wow...how neat, New Looks with lifts! Were all subsequent bus orders lift-equipped from the factory? And what a great roster!
The 8000-8144 had 8V-71 engines, the 82 to 8600's had 6V-71 engines.
Oh, I see; so that's where the difference is! We have a 1976 Flx New Look at our museum with an 8v71; the sound is basically the same as our 76 New Look with a 6v71 but has a small growl to it. Funny how the six-cylinder and the eight sound so much alike...
-F.
What's with Metro running their Orions on the weekend? During my last visit this last weekend, I rarely saw a Flxible in service except for a couple of Metro "E"s (40xx's), and a "D" (a 98xx)?, and a few CNG Flyers. I`m sick of seeing Orions. I guess I have to come down on a weekday to get my "Flx Fix".
Yeah, Flxs are being used less and less on the weekends. Although, Four Mile Run has taken on a lot of the ex Blandensburg Flxs so they can take on the new CNG buses.
I see a lot of Flxibles used on the 5A and 5B. Probably would find some on some of the Pentagon runs such as the 16 line.
Now that the Arlington garage is open on weekends, they use their Orions a lot so that takes care of a lot of the chances to run Flxs on a lot of those lines, too. : (
Poop. I was hoping Flxes were still widely in service. They haven't retired any Metros in the past little while, have they?
I saw some Metro B's in the scrap yard (I'm not sure what the name is, but it wasn't the Fort Totton one) along with the retired RTSs. About the availability of Flxibles, the last time I was in DC I rode a Metro B 30 ft bus (I thought those weren't around anymore) and a Metro E. I think the F2 line uses the older Flxibles at night, though, for I saw a Flxible B at Tacoma on the F2.
During the week, they are all over the place. On the weekends, they are few and far between. I bet on the DC routes and some Maryland routes, you'll find more, but in VA its mostly Orions.
That sounds good; I'll have to ride one during the week if I ever get a chance to go up there.
The 30 footers are definitely still around. Some of them had been used on the 28 and 92 routes in Silver Spring and Bethesda and they were painted in Montgomery Count Ride-On color scheme. Those buses are now back on regular MetroBus routes and they're sporting the new WMATA color scheme.
Wayne
So all the Metro 30-footers are in the new WMATA scheme? How many Flxes up there still have the older scheme?
No not all of them. It's pretty much the 516X-517X that are in the new scheme.
Wayne
Right...the 30-footers. Are the Bs the only ones that size?
Yes. At WMATA the D's and E's are all 40 feet long X 102 inches wide. And of course the B's are mostly 40' X 102" with some 35' X 102's, 40' X 96" and 30' X 96"
Wayne
I see; thanks for the info. I seem to recall the L&W variations were only in the Bs.
-F.
NO!!! Are they available for bid? I hope somebody saves these!!!
If they're stored where I think they are, they're dead, finito, finished. That might be the lot you can see from the Orange Line and Amtrak near New Carrollton. I think that's the area where the ones headed to the bus graveyard in the sky rest.
Regarding your question on which ones are still in old colors:
For whatever reason, all 9200 series Flxs seem to be in the old scheme. I've also seen 35 footer 9489 in the old colors as well as random other 8700 - 8900 Metro B's. There may be a few Metro E's running around like that, too, but I don't think there are many. The good thing about the B's in the 8700- 8900 series is they all still have the wrap around lights, while the other ones, 9300, 9400, 9700, etc. have the new LED lights.
It's good to hear the 9200s are still in the old scheme; I think it looks better on a Flx than the new colors any day. I'm glad to hear the 87-8900s still have the wraparounds; they look SO much better on Metros than the LEDs.
So the 98xx and the 4000 series are converted as well? I rode 9813 back in 1997 and it still had the wraparounds and the older scheme. With our Grummans having been retired three years earlier, it was kind of a retro ride for me. If only they were replaced with Flxes!
-Fred
Yeah, I think most or all of the 9700-9800's and 4000's have been repainted. I just saw 4104 driving around the other day with no ads and the new paint scheme, so that one must have just been fixed up lately. The crazy thing with the 9700's vs. the 9800's is the 9700's have only one exhaust pipe coming out of the top and the 9800's have two like they used to. Not sure why that was done.
I like the "dual exhaust" on the 9800s; I always thought those were neat. Sounds like the WMATA Flx fleet is more or less a hodge-podge!
-F.
Hodge podge is a great word to describe them!! Different tail lights, styles, even the numbers on some look different.
I think many of the Metro B's are in the old color scheme, because they may be amongst the last buses to be repainted just before the new color scheme started being applied.
I was also happy to see that a few 9300/9400 managed to keep their old wrap-around lights. Some that come to mind are 9352, 9375, 9408, 9410, 9435. I think there is at least one 35-footer that still has the wrap around lights as well.
Wayne
Yeah, I think you're right with the 35 footer. I remember seeing 9375 with the wrap arounds, too. I've been seeing more and more of the NABI artics in the new paint too. The fronts on them look a little odd because they're all white, except for the blue "Metrobus". I guess they're trying to make them look similar to the Orion VI and New Flyer fronts. I guess the Neoplans will look similar to that too when they show up.
Those NABIs really do look weird in the new paint scheme; I almost didn't recognize them when I saw the first repainted ones, largely because the window surround trim is now white instead of black which gives the bus a whole different look.
C
I've gotta go with the black...it just made the bus look more modern.
I prefer the WMATA's old scheme to the new scheme (and I think all of their buses look better in the old scheme) although I do not dislike the new scheme. However, I really like the NABI's in the new scheme. Has anyone ever seen 5212 in the new colors. I think this was the first bus done and it's red stripes are actually thicker like the red/blue stripes in the old scheme. ...and only one stipe goes around the front of the bus.
Wayne
I haven't seen that one, that's for sure. It seems like there is always one experimental one in the bunch. 8953 is another one of those that has a white trim along the back top rather than all blue.
I prefer the old colors too. The blue back is pretty cool though.
Oh yes, I see 8953 quite often. I'm glad WMATA didn't go with that version.
Wayne
Yeah, the white trim on the back is a little odd looking.
I agree; I like the older scheme better but I am curious as to what it looks like on the NABIs. Anyone have a picture?
Hope this will do, Be warned, it's big.....
WOW...what a great picture! That doesn't look too bad on the NABI. As far as 8821, the blue on the rear is neat but the original scheme looked better on it overall.
Yes, I too have noticed that virtually all of the 9200-series WMATA Flxibles are in the older scheme, while at least some of all other batches have been repainted.
My conjecture is that the 9200s were rehabbed/repainted immediately before WMATA introduced the new paint scheme in 1996/97. This would mean that they are the very last buses to be painted/repainted in the older (1983) metrobus scheme. It seems about right for their age; they are 1989 buses so they were ripe for repainting just before the 4200-series Orions made their debut in the new scheme. Now that most of the 1995 buses are being repainted, maybe the 9200s are up next to be "re"repainted. This will surely put them in the new scheme.
On a similar note, it really makes me sad to even think that WMATA Flxible Metro Bs will be retired en masse. I don't have anything wrong with New Flyer C40LFs, but the Flxibles just seem so much more Washingtonian to me.
The '97 paint scheme works so well because it complements the classic scheme and plays on it. I'd like to see the Bs repainted in the classic scheme . . . the new scheme only makes sense because one understands that its red and blue colors reference the classic two-stripe Metro livery. Without the original around to contrast it, the '97-scheme buses are just white with red stripes and a blue back.
C
Exactly!
That makes a lot of sense with the 9200's. I bet they did start rehabbing them first. The very first Orion that sported a new paint scheme that I can remember was 9619. It actually had an "M" painted on the front and then was changed to the two red stripes. I guess they were playing around with different ideas. The first time I saw it, I thought it was just a new bus until I saw the number and was really confused! Then I realized they were painting all of them.
It will be said to see the Metro B's go away. Its very strange to think that the 8700's are 16 years old already.
If it wasn't for the Low-Floor-CNG craze, I bet these buses (the Metro-B's) would have hung on like the fishbowls did. As you know, the last fishbowl was retired in 1999,(or 2000). DC always got every last mile out of a bus.
You know what? I don't think low-floor buses are suited to WMATA. Maybe for some DC city routes, but for the longer-distance suburban routes, I think WMATA will continue to make use of standard-floor buses. This means that Flxibles will hang on longer and additional standard floor buses will continue to be ordered. In fact, if the forthcoming order of Neoplan artics is successful, I would expect WMATA to turn to Neoplan for a full range of buses, including low-floor 40-footers, standard-floor 40-footers, artics, and maybe even suburban Metroliners.
You know, I don't think that low-floors are right for SEPTA either. The bus routes they run them on tend to get very crowded and knowing the idiots here in Philly, they always jam up the front half of a regular bus, let alone a low floor.
I know for a fact that New Jersey Transit will ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY WILL NOT buy low-floor buses.
That's good to know; Jersey doesn't need them. And neither does SEPTA!
That's true. Low-floors just aren't DC. Especially with their lower stance and saeting capacities. Even the high-floor artics stay packed there!
I'll drink to that! There is NO reason why the Metro Bs cannot be kept in service. Lifts may be time-consuming, but they save money by getting more life out of a perfectly good bus!
I know. I feel the same way about the Metro Bs in Blacksburg, which are the same age. Metros are still new to me and always will be.
They certainly are Washingtonian! MUCH more so than the New Flyer.
So the older Metrobus scheme dates back to 1983? I seem to remember a variation of that scheme on older coaches. In fact, we have that on our WMATA 1974 AM General at the museum, only it does not have the black around the windows and has blue and red stripes over the top, a la the Bredas. Also, the Flxible New Looks had a similar scheme.
metrobus is currently on its third paint scheme.
- The first was introduced on the 8000-series Flxibles and painted on to a large number of inherited buses. This was not too much different from the older current scheme; it had thinner red and blue stripes which slanted up toward the front of the bus to hug the front doors, and no specific color below the rubrail. Looked very 1970s. I believe the last metrobuses delivered in this scheme were the RTSs.
- The second scheme was first seen on the 9500-series Neoplans in 1983. This is the one still present today, with its thicker red and blue stripes, a pretty wide space between those stripes, the little arrow at the front, and the metrorail-esque "M" at the back. Also, this scheme used a very sharp grayish/tealish (?) skirt under the rubrail (can anyone identify that color?). The one inconsistency in this scheme was the use of black window trim. The Neoplans and the 9600-series Orions got it, but the Gilligs did not, nor did any of the repainted New Looks (thankfully - they looked much better without it.) This was not really an issue with the Flxible Metros, because those kind of have a de facto black window trim. The last buses to be delivered in this scheme were the 1995 models - Flxible Metro Es and American Ikarus 436s.
- About to receive its largest single order since the mid 1970s, WMATA introduced yet another scheme before the 4200/3900-series Orions came in. In a way, it's kind of the next step of evolution of paint schemes. It's not drastically different from the 1983 scheme. Simple red stripes, light blue skirting, more white, and an overall brighter look. It was first tried out on a 1992 Orion, and it has been fairly easy to apply to Flxible Metros as they are repainted/rehabbed. Now, the 5200-series NABIs are getting the new colors as well. At least one apiece RTS and 5100-series MAN artic were done up in the newest colors, as well. Not sure if any New Looks ever got it.
Correction...The First bus to wear the new WMATA paint scheme was Flxible METRO "B" #9388, at the time out of the Montgomery Garage.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
9619, an Orion V out of Four Mile Run at the time, now out of Montgomery, had a different new paint job as it had an "M" on the front along with the new paint scheme presently on most of the buses. I guess this was a trial to see what looked best before going to the two red stripes on the front vs. having the "M". The first time I saw it, I took a real fast doubletake as this was so new to see.
I've also seen a few buses, 8865 comes to mind, that don't have the black doors, but rather white, and the very bottom has the blue paint. It looks like the Road Champs NYCT Flxible.
Ugh. Sounds like 8865 could use a dash of color on those doors. As The Rolling Stones say, "Paint It Black"!
LOL, exactly!! I suppose it was an experiment to see what it would look like.
I haven't seen it, but it looks like crap. Trust me, I know from experience; before we masked off for the black on our restored Grumman at the museum, the bus was all white, and the doors looked horribly tacky...more like they belonged on an Old Look!
WMATA, your experiment has gone horribly wrong.
Thank you for the vast knowledge; yes, I agree the New Looks look better without the black trim. Also, the Gilligs are OK either way; most I see do not have it either, as is the case here in Roanoke. One thing I noticed in DC: You sure don't see the Gilligs very often!
The skirt color is a deep grey, from what I recall; I seem to remember some buses having a trace of metalflake here. I'd have to say the second scheme is my favorite of all, especially on the Metros.
-F.
FYI, Fred: The Gilligs are run primarily in SE Washington on neighborhood routes, and you're right that they are a rare sight because there are so few of them and they're highly localized. One or two can usually be seen at the Anacostia Metro station.
C
I see; that sounds about right. The only Gillig I saw in downtown was a 30-footer that was grey and white with a 6v92. Perhaps this was a private carrier?
That may have been a Washington Flyer Gillig you saw. They are Grey with white lettering
Ah, that's what it was...I remember now!
Are they a subsidary of WMATA or their own separate entity?
Washington Flyer is a service of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, which oversees Dulles and National (I refuse to call it Reagan National) Airports, though not BWI. I believe the bus service is operated by either a contractor or a franchisee, though I don't know -- this speculation is based on the fact that Washington Flyer's taxi service is operated by an independent franchise-holder. But in answer to your question (sorry for the diversion!), yes, they are a separate entity from WMATA.
C
That's alright...I figured they were separate from WMATA. And I'm with you on not wanting to call it Reagan National Airport...the only time I think of him is when I'm listening to my Rich Little album. LOL!
Unfortunately it's the inevitable. The Metros are getting older especially the Metro B's and their lots of newer Orion V and VI at WMATA. I really, really hope that Flxibles will go back into production. I knew it was getting bad when I started seeing Orions often on lines like the 70 which was heavily a Metro B, D and NABI route.
Wayne
Just wondering (don't ask why): What's the highest route number out there?
So far, the highest I've seen is Pace #1026 serving suburban Chicago. (The #1012, #1015, #1023, #1024, and #1026 are reverse-commute routes linking rail stations with suburban employment centers; riders must "subscribe" by buying a $110 monthly pass, which is valid on all Pace and CTA services.)
I suppose it would be the M98 for NYCT and the Q113 for (the soon-to-be-defunct) Jamaica Bus Service.
M98 is not the highest for NYCT.
M100
M101
M102
M103
M104 - this is the highest!
Wait, what about the M106 from Micheal J. Quill. Whether if it is with the M96 or not. The M106 is the highest. Back in 1988, the S117 was the highest. I believe that is now the S....oh boy. HELP on this one! Thanks!
I should really stay out of discussions of which I have no knowledge... lol
S117 (Richmond Rd - New Dorp Lane) has been the S76 since 1990. At one time there was an S118 on S.I. I think it ran to Oakwood Beach via Guyon Avenue many, many years ago. The highest current NYCT bus route number is the M116 which runs along 116 Street, of course.
Thanks and I forgot about the M116. Thanks for the reminder!
There was never a 118. There WAS a 108. The Guyon Ave bus was the 111. It's now the 57, which is the former 'combo route' 106/111. The 106 is now the peak-only 67.
-Hank
highest route numbers-borough by borough:
Queens-Q113
Brooklyn-B110
Staten Island-S98LTD
Manhattan-M116
Bronx-BX55
LIBUS-N95
Suffolk-S94
Okay, and the highest NJ Transit route number is
989, which is a WHEELS route (suburban shuttle route) that runs between Hillsborough, Manville, Bridgewater, Somerville, and Bedminster
The highest "regular" transit route is 837, which runs between Long Branch and Asbury Park.
Actually, it's the B103 in Brooklyn. The B110 is a private and rarely used route operated by some company. I think it's a Jewish company....NO OFFENSE!
So? Does that mean it doesn't exist?
Private, yes. They are not operating under a city franchise, and they don't accept metrocards or subway tokens. As for rarely used...you're WAY, WAY off. The route runs between Boro Park and Williamsburgh every day except Saturday.
-Hank
What about the M 116 out of 126th Street Depot
Use to be the M-20 when it was in MABSTOA
Thank You
In Jersey the highest routes is the 989 wheels service down in hillsborough .
T.Beverett
Sorry about all Caps, BLX didn't know that was SHOUTING. Message received. The intention of BLX was to observe members postings to feel the vibes you are bringing forth. BLX didn't intend to post every night, but to let the long time transit fans who keep this great sight alive have their say. BLX enjoyed the references to wrestling, but my days bring memories of Bruno Sammartino, Haystack Calhoun and others from that era. BLX thinks FLX is right on, and the welcome BLX has received (yes, only 2 postings!) warms my heart. If you feel that BLX is somehow stealing your thunder, then perhaps you should sit back as BLX has done for some time and absorb the sensations from members who are transit purists. Keep the transit dream alive, yes, please do so. BLX is out. Please enjoy the holiday weekend to all of my new friends.
Now we know BLX is a wrestling fan. Not of current vintage. But one from 20+ years ago. I do not believe BLX was stealing another's thunder. I was afraid that BLX was going to thunder out when his ire was aroused.
But for my own slightly selfish curious mind, what is your defination of:
"The Transit Dream"?
For whatever reason, Brooklyn67 pictures Mike Quill standing at a podium before millions of transit employees world-wide all dressed in their "Sunday Best", chanting that Rudy should wear comfortable sneakers because it's a long walk to City Hall from Judy's without a bus or subway.
But Brooklyn67 doesn't think that's what BLX had in mind.
Nor does Brooklyn67 cowtow or sugarcoat.
So... what's the story "BLX"?
5301 Fishbowl assumes that BLX won't respond until BLX is good and ready.
That's one good thing about him. He doesn't rush.
Hold up! What the hell is with this goddamned third-person narrative bulls**t? What the hell? If we ever talk like that in real life, then God help us all...roflmao...
BTW, Cleanairbus as just left his computer...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Flxible sees no problem with it either way, but he will stop if you wish....LMAO!
I'll say this, the man speaks very well....welcome aboard BLX
I think he has a superiority complex. It will be interesting to see him interact with Trevor...
-Hank
Brooklyn67 too found it interesting that someone would consider "taking the thunder" from someone else, without benefit of an intelligent and/or informative post in which to make reference or comparison to the self-praise brought before the insightful content...
Doh!
But... whatever.. Brooklyn67 is still waiting to find out what all this "Transit Dream" talk is, and how that applies to "power".
Storm cloud, anyone?
Amen to that. Welcome BLX!
-Fred
Right on, BLX! Whoa, that's going WAY back. Are you a Ric Flair fan as well?
Also, I don't think I totally caught the explanation for the BLX name...I know about the Flxible part, but where does the "B" come from?
BLX, that's understandable. But yes, after you've been online for a while, you find out very quickly that "SHOUTING" is a no-no.
I took offense to someone doing that on another site, and it almost erupted into an unholy pissing contest as I thought he was getting smart with me. However, we both explained where each other was coming from, and everything is all good with us now...at least I think so.
<<< The intention of BLX was to observe members postings to feel the vibes you are bringing forth. BLX didn't intend to post every night, but to let the long time transit fans who keep this great sight alive have their say. BLX enjoyed the references to wrestling, but my days bring memories of Bruno Sammartino, Haystack Calhoun and others from that era. BLX thinks FLX is right on, and the welcome BLX has received (yes, only 2 postings!) warms my heart. If you feel that BLX is somehow stealing your thunder, then perhaps you should sit back as BLX has done for some time and absorb the sensations from members who are transit purists. Keep the transit dream alive, yes, please do so. BLX is out. >>>
Wow - I didn't know Rickey Henderson was a transit buff ... :O
JD
Well, on that note....welcome aboard BLX! Just watch out for those repeated questions from certain people on this board. I will not mention their names but you will see and hear from them very shortly! Welcome aboard!
This call I had to handle myself. About 4:10pm an illegal van struck run 67 on the B44 on Fulton st and Willoughby st. Nobody on the bus was hurt however 4 out of 6 passengers in the van were injured. The driver of the van simply got out and ran off. The bus was sitting at the red light when the van rear ended it. A check by the cops found the Virginia license plates to be expired and invalid. The front windshield had New York stickers attached which had just been ripped out. The van passengers said as soon as the van struck the bus, the driver reached into the glove box, pulled out some papers and jumped out and took off. I had to spend the next 5 hours writing reports to send to different areas of transit, mainly because of the injuries.
This is yet another reason why we need more crackdowns on these illegal van operators. The people suffered head, neck and back injuries and they have nobody to cover them. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. The worst part of it is they will probably wind up trying to bleed a little money from NYCT.
BIG AL
And the "dollar vans" are getting real popular with former Queens Surface and Triboro bus riders. But who said Wimpberg cares about safety! He would probably be pleased with dollar vans all over the place.
Make the mayor walk 10 blocks in 90 degree weather and let him get whiplash from one of those stupid vans.
WE WANT OUR BUSES BACK!!!
Tell the drivers.
-Hank
>>WE WANT OUR BUSES BACK!!!<<
Who is WE ? You don't live in Queens !
Bill "Newkirk"
The main thing is that nobody on the B-44 was hurt.
Amen.
What an ass. I can't believe he just ran off like that and didn't take responsibility, knowing there was possibility that people inside the bus could have been hurt from the impact. Some people's kids....
I'm not at all suprised. Those guys have no regard for the saftey of their passengers, pedestrians or anyone. I'm all for driving fast, but many of these van drivers are simply reckless. They just want to make some dollars. It's unfortunate that so many people are still willing to get into these vans. My guess is that it's going to take something really bad happening before the city start taking this problem seriously.
Wayne
Something that the city could not explain away as a fluke would have to happen before anything gets done. And someone will sue Bloomburg because he recommended people take the dollar cars which are unsafe and uninsured.
These illegal vans have been operating as far back as the Koch administration, maybe even longer. I know, you're probably going to say that the previous mayors never "recommended" that people ride the pieces of crap.
In a related note, for many years, community leaders from the Kings Plaza area of Brooklyn have been trying to curb or cut down on the illegal vans that cause mayhem in front of the mall for both city buses and regular motorists. However, it seems that these leaders are "shot down" each time by leaders from neighboring communities, claiming that "racism" is the reason for the discrepancies.
....and in their infinite wisdom, the Transit Authority will find a way to label this accident as "preventable", and charge the operator 100% at-fault.
Al, I'm sure you worte this up in favor of the operator. Keep us apraised of the situation as it filters through management and torts. You didn't mention- was the operator sent for an FFD?
To those poor people who have no other choice than to use "dollar vans", I can empathize, when these vans are properly registered and insured. However, if you're going to ride inside a van without matching stickers/tags, you have only yourself to blame for the consequences.
We seem to take for granted that our modes of transportation comply with safety and Vehicle & Traffic regulations. That comfortableness factor is a product of using and relying on official and governed modes of public transportation.
Be wary when you apply the same hypothesis to private dollar van operators..
These guys, many of whom do not have valid licenses, will do whatever it takes and by whatever means necessary to grab that next dollar. They will place your safety.. your LIFE.. in jeopardy... for A DOLLAR.
A DOLLAR.
That's what your life is worth to them.
Now is the time to run up to your favorite bus operator and thank him/her with cash-in-hand and gifts galore for providing you with SAFE transportation which requires no forethought on your part.
:-)
Hopefully the operator will have not have to endure any crap from the TA.
T.Beverett
You have a good point. So these knuckleheads are running around unlicensed to transport people in order to "undersell" the TA?
Knuckleheads trying to make a buck. They get nabbed they'll lose the bucks earned that day. They get sued they'll lose a whole family of bucks. So when something happens they run with the bucks in his hand.
I'll bet this driver will never work in a Dollar Van again. He will be shunned by the other drivers for the attention shown on them. And if any of the customers ever spots him driving around, someone will drag him out of the car.
not true. he`ll be driving another dollar van with say georgia plates on it with ny stickers.
And if he gets nabbed while driving for another Dollar Van Service the media will show up the fact that the companies don't screen their driver's backgrounds. Showing the campanies are just out to make the buck and public be damned. And how are the people that were in that Van that crashed today?
he is probably back in guayana already
Maybe got a job driving Vans in Jamaica.
What "Dollar Van Service" are you talking about? We're not discussing the licensed and properly insured (and legal) "Van Services" that {ahem} "supplement public transportation" (in the words of those who promote such). We're talking about "some guy" who uses "some van" with "some tags" and no license, no registration and no insurance to carry your family members to work at the expense of anyones safety in the name of ten dimes.
If the van (or car) doesn't have TLC plates that match the registration, a "diamond shaped" TLC sticker on the passenger-side windshield and the name and address of the providing company on the exterior of the vehicle, you have only yourself to blame for any consequences arising from utilizing that vehicle.
I stand corrected.
You bet I wrote this up in favor of the operator which was actually nothing but the truth anyway. The good news is the bus operator will not get blamed for this. He was standing at a red light with 3 or 4 cars in front of him. He had parked cars to his right. There is NOTHING he could have done to prevent this accident. The superintendents that were with me also confirmed he will not be blamed. However, he did have to go down to take a FFD. Reason: the van passengers will probably try to sue T/A anyway to get some money since they will not be collecting from the fool who ran off and knowingly left them injured in his van. Whenever transit believes there will be a law suit involved, the transit worker must go for a Fitness For Duty so that transit can show in court there was absolutely no wrong doing on the operator's side. The good news for the operator is that he is off on Thursday and Friday. By the time he comes back to work on Saturday, the test results will be in and he should resume his normal routine, versus having to just stay at the depot and sweep the floors until the test results become known in a few days.
Some more information to make everybody's blood boil on these hot days. Of the 4 passengers who were hurt in the van, one person was in her 30's, 1 person in her 20's, 1 person is 16 years old and the 4th person is only 11! All 4 passengers are female. The 2 other passengers who were not hurt, thank God, are under 10, both little boys who were just badly shaken up! The van driver knew full well his passengers, including a child were hurt, yet grabbed the money and some papers out the glove box and took off, leaving the key in the ignition.
Too agree with what some of you guys have said in other threads relating to this post, I would love to get my hands around that guy's neck also. The only real sad part to all of this is, he is probably driving around another van right now pulling off the same dangerous crap.
BIG AL
Hopefully on the ignition key, the knucklehead left a fingerprint that will nail his ass to the wall.
I doubt it vety much, But I hope the other companies don't hire him as a driver. When he gets nabbed it will look bad for the company.
At least it's a thought.
I doubt he was working for anyone but himself. Unregistered, uninsured...
-Hank
I'm glad the driver won't be charged and hopefully more people will think before they get into a van. This is a perfect example on how its not worth saving $0.50 riding in those vans.
T.Beverett
Will they?
I'm sure there are some people walking around with the idea of "It'll never happen to me!". Especially when they're waiting for a late bus on a hot afternoon at the back of a long line.
But I'm glad the driver won't be charged with anything wrong.
they save a quarter . dollar vans are really 1.25 vans
Then they save 11 cents. With MetroCards purchased in increments of $15 or more, each ride on a TA bus costs about $1.36.
Fifty cents...people rick their lives for this? Sheeze!
For Douce Man: Please try to understand something. It has nothing to do with companies hiring these people. These people are using their own personal vehicles, or perhaps even stolen vehicles to make money, illegally. There is nothing to stop them from doing this now or in the future, other than catching them in the act. The only real giveaway is by looking at the license plates, which should be T.L.C. issued.
For David J. Greenberger: A vast majority of the time, I don't believe the people are trying to save money, rather it be .11 cents or .50 cents. What they are trying to save, or what they think they are saving---is TIME.
BIG AL
At Flatbush/Nostrand by the southbound B-41 bus stops I have actually seen many people get in to these vans while 2 or more B-41's are at the stop at the same time! What does that mean??
they are a** holes thats what it means. while i was on the b 41 for the last 6mos i use to actually beat the dollar vans going south on flatbush avenue. my schedule was 2 full round trips of limiteds and people getting on my bus most of the time got to the junction from downtown faster than they were in a killer van. i don`t care if they have tlc plates or not all i know is that none of them can drive they are nothing but a major hazzard on the roads. w have 19a laws and cdl laws . they scrutinize bus drivers at every cahnce while most of these illegal aliens get away with murder. we all have mayor guliani to thank for leagalizing some of these van companies. ):
These kids really took their lives into their own hands jumping into some strange van instead of regulated public transit with a guardian. Where are their parents?!?
"The worst part of it is they will probably wind up trying to bleed a little money from NYCT."
WHY? These people should not get a dime from NYCT! They were in the van and the B44 did nothing wrong! It does not make sense!
true,but look at the stupid incident on the subway of a stupid woman falling asleep on the tracks,getting hit by the train,then sueing the TA for $14million and winning it!that one was REALLY stupid.that woman should have NEVER been on the tracks in the first place and she should NEVER HAVE sued the TA because its her own stupid fault for being a bitch.now if somebody sues the TA for this other stupidity,
theres gonna be hell to pay and im gonna deliver the hell to the van driver
Defense attorney will imply it was TA's fault that their bus was there waiting for the light when the driver of the van couldn't stop.
And I'll bet the driver was looking for a pay phone to call 911.
looking for a pay phone to call 911,yaright. he just took the cash and ran off like the jackass that he is.and i'll be damned if this crap gets sent to court as a lawsuit and its won by the person who filed it,then you'll REALLY see me reaking total havoc on all of them for thier stupidity
These people couldn't win a dime in court, or could they.... The next thing you know, it becomes illegal to stop at a red light. They should be forced to pay the TA, afterall they DID rearend a bus.
They shouldn't get anything, but a money hungry personal injury lawyer will probably start salivating and come up with any claim - no matter how ridiculous it is.
Wayne
of course you`ll see people in the next couple of days saying they got hurt on the bus. injuries on the bus sometimes aren`t claimed at the seen. sometimes people talk to their friends then decide wait i am hurt.
Passengers on the bus who are LEGITIMATELY hurt should be fairly compensated for their injuries.
Passsengers on the van should sue the owner and driver of the van. If they shouldn't be allowed to sue the TA since that would be condoning and sanctioning an illegal act.
Except there is no one to sue, and no damages to collect. The van is unregistered, uninsured, and the driver untracable. The driver has no assets, other than the vehicle. Guess what NY State law requires all drivers to carry on their vehicles? UNINSURED MOTORIST INSURANCE. That's why the TA will be paying claims.
-Hank
thats why its sue the ta
thank goodness it was monday that i took the B44 and not yesterday and i wasnt on that bus,otherwise he'd be dead right now by my hands.
i have absolutly no remorse for that jackass,i wouldve told the driver to open the doors so i could go after him and kick his ass.it seems all these accidents happen when im not around.or when im elsewhere when it happens.but one of these days,you'll see,some low class punk is gonna get a royal beatdown and all of you will know about it.
Careful. It's hot out there.
Darlene, you can own my rap seat anytime... LOL
I'm assuming this is the "nickname" for the first passenger seat opposite the drivers side. The Orions have a window, which I like to nickname the "Busfan window", sorta like the "Railfan window" on trains.
Just one question........
Where is this going?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
there ae no rap seats on the cng newflyers at gleason. i remember in the early 90`s lots of drivers would pour water in the front seat to make sure no one sat there lmao
That sounds about right. Usually I sit in the back to hear the engine (the REAL "Busfan Seat") but if it's driven by someone I know I sit in the frontmost seat to "rap" with the driver as we go along.
Yeah I prefer the back too generally, you can hear the engine and the seat by the rear door in Orions has the A/C blasting in summer. In winter I'm more likely to choose the rear seat by the window (either side). But in the summer that rear seat can be blazin hot, especially on the L10G powered Orion CNG's.
It may be cruel to say but those people should have know better and they got their just desserts. I feel for the B/O cause I was rear ended myself back in December but I had no passengers. There are legitimate van operators and I wish people would patronize them instead of the illegals. They just don't care, any van will do, legal or not.
the legal ones can`t drive either. people that get in any of these vans may be taking the last ride of their lives. they should go through what us bus drivers go through to maintain our licenses. they have no regard for other peoples vehicles .cutting trucks ,cars and buses off just to oick uo a fare.the legal ones have some illegal vans operating with no tlc plates on flatbush avenue.
I think private non-franchised buses should be allowed to operate. Then, we'll have a balanced transportation system where unprofessional van companies and drivers won't survive. Also, you can't treat a bus like a switchblade without risking your job...or worse.
You will never have truly professional bus drivers unless they can be offered job security. Non franchised bus companies cannot offer their employees job security because the company itself has a shaky future until or if that franchise is renewed. If this is not done, you'll have so much driver turnover that no one will have sufficient driving experience under their belt to become an experienced professional driver.
Has the entire X21 bus been discontinued as of July 2 & all combined into the X22.
In addition, what are the new times for the X22 in the morning & afternoon rush as of July 2.
BusFan do me a favor: STOP ASKING SO MANY QUESTIONS AND CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING TO THIS BOARD BESIDES THESE QUESTIONS!!! THIS IS NOT JEOPARDY!!! GO TO www.mta.info and find out your answer!!
This is the last time I'm replying to something as dumb as this.
STOP BEING SUCH A STOONAD!
Hasta La Vista.....Baby!
#1979 X1
It's really spelled "stunato", which in Italian is literally translated as "deaf" but is a slang (not obscene) word for someone that is dense and uncomprehending.
I've heard Stoonad used many times but thanks for the clarification Dan.
#1979 X2
Why don't you just killfile him? Many BusTalkers have done it including me.
It's more fun to heap on the abuse. It keeps me from biting Trevor.
-Hank :)
(No offense, Trevor...but we've got history...)
I have on my home computer but on other computers-he's there.
#1979 X17
I found the neatest thing the other day; it is a NYCTA bus token and looks to be considerably older.
The token is gold-colored with a hollow center that bears a silver filling; the coin itself has a webbed, textured design, not unlike a manhole cover. On one side it is lettered "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY" in a narrow all-caps font and reads "GOOD FOR ONE FARE" on the other. Could anyone shed some light on what vintage this is?
Being that most of you are in NYC, this is probably a common sight, but here in Roanoke, VA, it's a very rare find!
It sound like a old Bulleye Token. The silver filled center give it away.They were first used when the Fare went from $0.90 to $1.00 I think. It was used up untill the fare when up to $1.50 and then the five Bourgh Token came in, with Motrocard comming around about a year latter.
Robert
That's the one! I am curious; why was it filled with silver? Did they ever issue a hollow Bullseye coin?
Well with 10 M struck I would say it got some use. There was also a similar token issued for the opening of the Archer Ave extnsion. There were 100K of those made.
And the Garden State Parkway issued a token just the opposite of these.
BTW, this wasn't the oldest token, there were two of this size and two smaller that proceeded it. And I'm not even talking about the token issued by local companies, e.g. Steinway Transit, Queensboro Bridge, etc.
P.S. I belong to "AVA" and am a Vecturist (someone who collects tokens & metrocards)
What was the approximate size of the older coin? This one is about the size of a quarter, only slightly smaller.
Just curious...what do you mean by 10 M? Does that have to do with the silver filling?
10,000,000.
http://www.nycsubway.org/tech/tokens/
-Hank
It is definitely a "bullseye" token. I remember when they first came out in the late '70's. There was never a hollow "bullseye". That's the reason why it was named that, because of the silver in the middle. The reason why it was made that way was because with the previous token, people were inserting counterfits and other coins through the turnstiles which worked fine. The new "bullseye" token was hard if not impossible at the time to duplicate. And there was no other coin out similar to it with a silver filling embedded in the middle thus making other coins not operable in the turnstiles.
But the crooks found out another way to try to beat the system, like jamming up the coin slot, then literally sucking out the stuck "bullseye" tokens with their mouths.
I'm giving this information because it can no longer be done with the current Metrocard type turnstiles. But back in the old days, it was sure interesting what these lowlifes would do to steal a couple of bucks.
BIG AL
The bullseye tokens didn't come out until the 80s. The Garden State Parkway used simlar tokens that were steel with a brass center. The NYCTA Bullseye tokens were brass with a steel center. The steel made them semi-magnetic, which allowed for a slightly more sophisticated coin acceptor, which reduced the number of slugs used. With the older tokens, the slug merely had to be the right size and weight. The knockouts from a 1900 box worked...(not that I know from experience or anything...)
-Hank
That's a "bullseye" token. It's not that old. It was the last token used before the one in use now. The metal center was to cut down on the use of slugs. MORE INFO
Peace,
ANDEE
Andee, thanks for the info; it was very informative and now I have pinpointed it to be the plain Bullseye. So this is from 1986-90?
The current one is from 1995.
Right...but I mean the Bullseye. This one has a silver filling and looks like the older (pre-1995) coin.
The bullseye token was in use until 1995, when the fare went up to $1.50 and the final token (ever) was released.
So no tokens are made or circulated now?
They are no longer made, but they are circulated. That will likely end within the next five years.
-Hank
...and it should have ended 3 years ago. Why are they dragging their feet?
Peace,
ANDEE
Because there are alot of customers that still want to use the token. For different reasons they do not want to use a metrocard.
If the choice is eliminated, as it should be, they will have to use the card.
Peace,
ANDEE
Maybe they long for the good old days of the coin...but is the Metrocard more efficient?
But people will still be wanting to use the token.
Chicago got rid of them a couple of years ago, NYC is more timid about it.
Becuase it's more of a tradition in NYC?
P.S. Boston just made a deal with Scheidt to do it there.
P.P.S. This is their second try at this. Cubic didn't like being second in the bidding & sued. Everyone expect them to be a spoiled brat again.
Mr rt__:^)
Are those coin or Metrocard companies? I'm unfamiliar with them.
They are farebox/turnstile companies.
Peace,
ANDEE
Ah...gotcha. Thanks!
They're still circulated, but the majority of fares paid (IIRC, over 90% -- someone will correct me if I'm wrong) are with MetroCard. The next time the fare goes up (by the beginning of next year, most likely), tokens will probably no longer be accepted.
At this depot we were sending 4,000 once or twice a week to the TA, however currently it's zero :-(
Zero? You don't get any tokens at all? Wow.
Mr T. works for one of the private bus lines that are on strike.
Peace,
ANDEE
I wasn't taking "currently" quite so literally!
I know this route no longer exist. As recording to a Bee Line Route 1 Transfer I got yesterday. It show on the Transfer that Additional fare required on Route59 into Rockland County and same with the 84 exept it said Putnam County. And The BXM4D was also on the transfer.
I did find a OLD Bee Line Bus Map in Yonkers Railroad Station and it had the BXM4D on it and the BXM4D went to Tarrytown via Saw Mill River Road,Tuckahole Road,and Central Park Ave.
1. When the 59 84 and BXM4D stop service?
2. Where in Rockland did the 59 Went?
3. Where in Putnam did the 84 Went?
I remember the BXM4D to Tarrytown. Of course it used the Bee-Line MCI 102A2.
[1. When the 59 84 and BXM4D stop service?]
Not sure.
- - - - -
[2. Where in Rockland did the 59 Went?]
A. I remember seeing those errors on the Bee-Line transfers over 10 years ago! Westchester DOT hasn't updated/corrected them in ages.
B. Actually, that wasn't Bee-Line #59 but Transport Of Rockland #57 (now TZX-1, the Tappan Zee Express). It picks up in commuters in Nyack and Spring Valley and drops them off in Tarrytown and White Plains. TOR #59 operates entirely within Rockland County, along State Route 59 (!) between Nyack and Suffern.
- - - - -
[3. Where in Putnam did the 84 Went?]
It originally went to Brewster and Mahopac, and eventually got extended all the way to Kent, near the Putnam-Dutchess County border. Westchester DOT charged a full-fare surcharge for the Putnam portion of the route.
so why did they discontinue the 84?i remember i had a schedule of it from a few years back but i threw it away since it was outdated.and i never heard of this 59,or at least,dont remember it if it did exsist.
I'm not sure about the 59 or BxM4D, but I do seem to recall the 84 being discontinued sometime around 1998-99. The services in the Armonk area were also restructured as I recall.
Did anyone today have Bus Air Condition Problems?? If So, I feel sorry for ya.
Actually, no; down here in Roanoke it is blazing hot (95 plus), and the A/Cs on all of our Gilligs have been working just fine. In fact, the older ones will freeze you right out of the bus!
Here's an example: I was riding Downtown around 5:15 yesterday. The driver shuts off the A/C and some idiot yells out "What did you do THAT for?". The driver's reply: "Man, I've been on here for eight hours...I'm about to freeze up here!". I'm with the driver there; passenger comfort is important, but when you're driving, you've gotta be comfortable if you want to be at your very best!
Just curious: what year did transit coaches convert to R134a? For some reason, our 91 and 94 Gilligs are much colder inside than the 2001 models. Could it be that both fleets of the older buses run on Freon? That is my assumption; I know it was mandated on cars around 1993-94. I assume regulations on transit coaches were different?
-F.
Well I can understand if the driver shuts it off for a few minutes, but any longer and the pax are gonna roast.
True. I think he did shut of off for only a few, but that doesn't stop the riders from bitching. Besides, it was five in the afternoon and it was considerably cooler then, with no sun out.
I discovered on Tuesday that the a/c on the Orions only blows down toward the seats. That doesn't help the standees at all. I had a somewhat, uh, drippy ride.
the only one bad thing i saw was green bus #5536(Orion V) being towed on 57th Street toward Queens. Must hae broke down. My buses today were ok-though how did libus do?
LI bus 350 A/C was blowing out hot air. It was hotter in the bus than it was outside, and that was with the windows open!
People in cars really have no regard for transit vehicle safety. I was riding to work the other day, and some bonehead in a Chevy pickup decides to stomp on the gas and pass the bus on the left at an intersection. He immediately T-boned a Volvo that was crossing, and smashed it good. Everyone on the bus was shocked, even though it was not involved in the collision.
People really are careless about safety around buses. I just hope he doesn't try to blame the TA..it was NOT their fault OR the driver's. It makes me shake my head uncontrollably.
-F.
Yeah, I've seen some of the worst driving around buses. A few times when I was driving for Shuttle UM, I'd pull to a stop on a two lane road on campus to let someone off and as they were crossing at the crosswalk, a car comes flying by me on my left, on the wrong side of the road and came within inches of nailing the people walking in the crosswalk. I had other instances where cars got impatient waiting for me to leave a stop and tried passing me only to have me speed up in time to stop it from happening.
OTOH, my pet peeve is when bus drivers don't pull over to the curb completely to load/unload passengers, apparently often because they don't want to have to fight to merge back into traffic. Just try driving behind a 30-line bus on Wisconsin Ave. in upper Georgetown: they either stop where they are or pull over incompletely, taking up a lane and a half, stopping everyone behind them. Obviously this is unavoidable if the curb lane is filled with parked cars, but even when there is space so many drivers don't bother to get over or give you enough space to pass on the left.
C
You're right. I've changed my attitude about "holding my lane" because I've found that it accumulates _more_ traffic behind me that will eventually pass me anyway, creating a longer wait and possible prevention of entry into the next bus stop, than if I had simply "allowed" traffic to easily pass on my left in the stop before.
I suppose it depends on exactly _where_ one drives, and the safety issues involved across-the-board, however, I've found that allowing traffic to pass on my left creates less traffic ahead in the short run, as long as traffic is moving. If we're talking about single-lane traffic on Church Avenue during rush hour, then I'll do whatever it takes to ensure a safe re-entry into traffic. However, if we're talking about single-lane traffic moving smoothly, then I'll not prevent traffic from passing on the left.
Regarding those who drive arrogantly and without regard for the safety of those using buses, I blame the mass transit authorities for a poor-to-non-existant ad campaign explaining and detailing how buses truly operate, and how they differ from cars and the like.
Simply, those who do not operate or utilize buses do not understand how they drive, or how they stop. They do not comprehend, or realize, that injuries may occur with sudden stops. This is by no means an excuse for those who drive their cars poorly and without respect for the road. On the contrary, a public awareness campaign should be created to complement the rules of the road, and to make aware to those who operate dangerously the consequences of those actions.
Good points. A public awareness campaign would be a very good start -- I also wish police would be more diligent in ticketing aggressive drivers who weave around buses and endanger passenger safety.
C
That's a good idea. Perhaps a flyer mailed to people's homes or posters around town could make the public aware of this. Most people do not know what it takes to operate a bus, and that it does not stop on a dime!
Yeesh! Sounds like the driver is inexperienced in pulling up to the curb....perhaps they're afraid of running over it?
[...I'd pull to a stop on a two lane road on campus to let someone off and as they were crossing at the crosswalk, a car comes flying by me on my left, on the wrong side of the road and came within inches of nailing the people walking in the crosswalk.]
That sort of thing is why the NYC Department of Transportation would rather place a bus stop at the far side of (i.e. after) an intersection rather than at the near side (i.e. before) -- passengers who get off the bus (as well as other pedestrians) at a near-side stop tend to walk around the front of the bus and right into traffic. At a far-side stop, disembarking passengers have to walk BACK to the corner to cross the street, and thus get a clear view of on-coming traffic.
The main exception to the far-side rule is under elevated structures with columns in the street (e.g. most els in the Bronx), where a far-side stop might cause the rear of a bus to block the intersection.
Yeah, I agree that's a good practice. At least there would be less obstruction and motorists could see the people waiting to cross.
It was sort of a dilemma that I faced because not only would the passenger try to cross in front of me, but since it was a busy campus road, lots of people going from their classes would take advantage of me stopped and cross while cars were trying to go around me. My heart jumped to my throat the one time there was a near miss.
Ouch! Yeah, people have NO respect for buses...they'll pass them as they please. In Blacksburg, on a two-lane one-way road at the Tech campus, you have to stagger the bus into both lanes from the stop to keep cars from hitting you. I think that is a clever strategy.
Yes you're so right. I freely admit that I often try not to get caught behind a bus that's making stop, but I won't do anything crazy to get around them. I notice often that cars are very impatient around large vehicles.
Wayne
cars being impatient is a sign of the drivers total lack of common sense,and thier stupidity.damn i seem to be saying that word alot but its true.anyway,i see so many a times when a bus is picking and dropping off passengers cars passing right by it,even on narrow two way streets.and sometimes i even hear them honking.its like they have no clue of whats going on.they think the bus just stands there in the way to annoy them.they learn this stuff in driving school i suppose you'd think they'd learn how to wait but NOOOOOOOOO!!! i hope they sue the driver of that pickup truck for all the money he has.
Well, they were in a Volvo, so it just might happen....
Yes they are. I almost think transits should have retractable stop signs with flashing lights on the sides and pedestrian guards on the front bumpers, a la school buses; this could possibly curb accidents at intersections where cars are apt to be impatient.
And traffic would have to stop when the bus is stopped, just like school buses! :-)
Right...but it's a small price to pay for public safety. :)
This happens all the time on LI, and it's a dangerous proposition on the North Shore's narrow and winding roads. It is very common for cars, especially those yuppie on the phone SUV driving creatures that inhabit the North Shore to pass a bus on the left, and cross on to the wrong side of a two lane road. Fortunately I haven't seen an accident, but I'm sure it's happened. The cops seem to do nothing when it comes to this, and other forms of aggressive driving.
Sheeze....you've got those creatures up there too? They are RAMPANT here. Also, one of their cousins decided to talk away on the phone while not paying attention to the rear end of the Gillig in front of them. The bus was virtually unharmed, but the Volvo was creamed!
Once my school van was drooping me off and the Red Lights where on for the cars to stop then a guy in a Honda Civic hit the back of my school van b/c the guy was looking at a Verry Nice Girl and was looking at her instead of the school van in front of him and it hit behind my school van. There was a small scratch on the school van while the Honda Civic got a Verry Big Dent in the front!
Yowtch! Girl-watching is all very fine, but the guy in the Civic deserved the damage. These are cool cars, but why do so many people feel they to drive them like irresponsible idiots? Too much " Fast and the Furious" at the cinema last summer, I presume?
idk. But the people that saw it from the Lobby of my Apartment Buliding where blameing the guy and I beleave that guy to me is a Jerk and a Pain in the ass! And soem people in my buliding saw this where saying bad things about him. I bet he was hit with a fine for hitting a school bus since by time I got up to the my room in my aprtment I saw a NYPD Chevy Impaila pull in behind the Civic
A Chevy 'Impaila'. I like it.
-Hank
LOL...I love it! "IMPALE-a"....too funny.
This is off the subject, but how well are those new Impalas holding up at the NYPD?
idk. But the people that saw it from the Lobby of my Apartment Buliding where blameing the guy and I beleave that guy to me is a Jerk and a Pain in the ass! And some people in my buliding saw this where saying bad things about him. I bet he was hit with a fine for hitting a school bus since by time I got up to the my room in my aprtment I saw a NYPD Chevy Impaila pull in behind the Civic
I was sitting in the back of a JB Flxible that had just left 179th circa 1995. The bus driver put on his directional and proceeded to slow down to make a right turn on to 187th Street. Some douchebag in a white Mazda 626 attempted to pass the bus on the right side and ended up sliding into the side of the bus. The B/O must have been a seasoned veteran cause he calmly got out, inspected the damage and proceeded to call his dispatcher while the rest of us were incredulous watching this guy that hit us eat his Chinese food like nothing happened. A JB RTS happened to be behind us so we all piled on and away we went. Now that I'm a bus driver myself, I see all kinds of insanity. It makes me want to quit sometimes but I love what I do too much.
I don't blame you; it can be insane out there, but it's a great job. So the guy was just sitting there eating Chinese without regard to any of you after slamming into the side of the bus? What a dick!
I live in Atlanta and we have the same problems with people passing the bus and the problem has been getting worse because our bus routes are on streets that the police don't patrol. A perfect example is my street, the speed limit is 35 but the average driver is doing 50 and when the bus stops they just cross the yellow line without looking and we had one accident that looked like a movie scene the car flipped over the oncoming SUV, tagged the bus with a passenger stepping off, and then slid into home plate through a fire hydrant. oddly no one was killed but that SUV was hit agin 3 seconds late by the other car that was passing the bus. But what should you expect on a street with no traffic lights that runs alongside a main thoroughfare with police checking for speed.
That's horrible! Surely the DOT there would look into lights for that highway after all that. Or are they waiting for a fatality?
You would think im on a highway but its just a regular side street like E 105 St in Brooklyn or Sayres Ave in Queens. The funny thing is that today we had a Speed Box (pretty big device that tells everyone how fast your going) parked on the side of the road most people were passing it at about 45 in a 35.
We have a speed box here as well; I think it is good as it makes more people aware that the police are watching them and that they should immediately slow to a safer speed, especially on bus lines. We have a lot of hot dogs in cars around here. How are drivers in your area?
Put it like this - inside the Perimeter the speed limit is 55 and outside the Perimeter is 65~70 when the local paper checked highway speeds they found the average car inside the perimeter was going 78 and clocked one person doing 115. our street limits range from 25 to 35 and if you're in the city of Atlanta btw the 7th and 25th of the month APD isn't on duty so its a free for all. But we're proof that the 5 hr class is necessary because nobody wears seatbelts while driving drunk or high or both, so every night someone gets "ejected" from their vehicle or runs into an overpass. I start to miss the Belt every now and then
Sounds like a driving nightmare. Remind me to stay away from there!
Yeah, now I'm also going through a situation where a moron girl tried to make a left on green at an intersection. Problem was, my car was in the intersection going straight coming from the opposite side and she ran into me head on. I'm hearing that so far there is $6,200 damage to my car (1999 Dodge Avenger), and they haven't even looked under the hood yet to see what else is wrong. I fear its a total loss. : ( Tell me how someone can't see me in the intersection at midnight when I'm the only other car out there? The problem was, this idiot in front of her cut me off making a left just as the light turned green and she had slowed, but then floored it right into me. Maybe she hit the gas instead of brake. I don't know. At least I wasn't hurt, and her insurance is covering it. She wasn't charged though even though she failed to yield. I hate driving. I've been taking the bus the past few days, but since the car will be k/o'd for awhile, may look into taking them up on the rental car.
NY State considers a vehicle totaled if the repair cost is more than 75% of the retail value of the automobile. My first car was totaled with $10,000+ worth of damage from a guy making a left turn from the center lane, while I was in the left lane. Something called the 'suspension cradle' was bent, and needed replacement. That was the expensive part. You're already approaching 50% of value.
This is my 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which I had for seven months:
At the scene
At the shop
$1600 just for this
This was with my then three month old replacement car, a 2001 Pontiac Sunfire:
My favorite wreck.
This is what it's in the shop for now, and the only one that is my fault (as per my insurance company) Always look left a second time...
-Hank
Hey Hank, you seem to have more than your share of accidents.
Peace,
ANDEE
It seems hereditary. Since I got my license, I've been in five accidents. Only two of which has been 'at fault'. One of the at faults was in Savannah, GA, with a rental car, but there were mitigating circumstances.
-Hank
Yow! That's some major damage. Really...$10,000 to fix that Sunfire? Airbags really are expensive to replace, but if they saved your life they are worth it. VA has a similar rule on totals, but here the damage is 80%. Which do you have now...the 2000 or the 2001 Sunfire?
Funny thing about the airbags...we never hit them. Our seatbelts did the work, and we were only doing about 20. My guess is the sensor was on the bent frame member.
-Hank
Sounds about right; those sensors are tricky!
Wow, I'm sorry about your accidents. Were you hurt? Luckily, nobody was really hurt in this one. The airbag hit the girl in the nose, but she'll live.
She came so out of nowhere because after the first car cut me off, I saw her stop, then all of a sudden, POW. When she hit me, she jumped out of the car and ran into the car behind her where her parents were and her car began to roll backwards. Nobody was really around as it was midnight when it happened so no other cars were in danger. I can't believe I was a block from home when it happened, too. I think my witness was an NYPD officer. He was so nice, but I didn't get his name as I was in utter shock.
Living here in VA, too, I'm not sure what will determine being totalled or not.
Never been hurt more than a bruised ego (and a crying fit once). My last accident was only a mile from home, too.
In Defensive Driving class, they tell you a driver averages an accident every 10 years. I should have four decades of accident-free driving ahead...
-Hank
LOL!!! That's an interesting way to look at it!
YOW! What a predicament. At least nobody was hurt! How do you like your Avenger? I always thought those were neat cars; I have a Dodge Intrepid myself.
As far as loss, I'm not sure what the current book value of your car is but usually once the estimate is over 75 to 80% of the car's overall value the insurance company considers it a total loss and will give you the option of giving you or the body shop a check to help cover the damage (less deductible) or junk the car and give you a little more money. I had a bad accident in my car once, and that is how they handled it.
If you really like the car, I'd say save it, but that's up to you and what you think is best. If you decide to go with the rental, try the new Stratus R/T coupe...it's basically a newer version of your car, and it's a sweet machine!
-Fred
I love my Avenger. Its a V6, electronic everything. I'd love to keep it, but I'm always leary of how well it will run after going through this trauma. Poor thing looked like it was winking at me as it was motionless in the intersection.
State Farm told me the car had to be 95% damaged to be declared a total loss, but tha'ts weird that it would be something different in VA since that is where I live, too.
The Stratus does look nice. Not sure what I'll do if I can't fix this one. : (
Thank God for transit.
Depends on the state law on giving the vehicle a 'salvage' title. In NY, the law is 75%. Once your vehicle is tagged as 'salvage', you're screwed.
-Hank
Mine was not given a salvage title when it was totalled; do they handle it differently where you are?
Amen; thank God for transit. I'd be nowhere without it!
I'd say go ahead and fix the Avenger. If you really love it, save it. My Intrepid was in a horrendous accident that would have otherwise left it for junk, but I decided to fix it. Why waste a strong-running car that has been well taken care of? Some of my friends think I'm nuts, but I did what I felt was right at the time.
If State Farm will work with you, go for it. Especially if they allow you 95 percent.
-F.
Yesterday I saw a guy crossing right in front of a MCI 102DL3 #1945 on the X22 Line and as the guy crossed the street. He gave the driver of 1945 a Middle Finger. The driver did not do anything wrong so that guy that gave the driver the middle finger should had been ran over
Once upon a time there was a one lane bridge. One day there were two cars that met about halfway on the bridge. Both were trying to cross the bridge at the same time. The drivers got out of their cars and started arguing about who was going to back up first to let the other driver cross. Finally they "decided" one driver would back up first so that the other could cross. As the one driver was backing up, the other driver yelled out:
"I DON'T BACK UP FOR IDIOTS!".
The first driver answered him after getting out of the way:
"I DID!"
LOL!!! What a great story. I've gotta remember that one!
Or at least a bird flying right back at him. What a putz!
-F.
Some drivers like myself make the assumption that anyone at any moment could be walking out into my lane from the front of that stopped bus. Number one rule is you never want to hit a pedestrian. Do whatever it takes to avoid that possibility.
Amen. You really have to keep on the ball about that. Some people just don't look, and when they don't, it's the driver and the TA that can get into trouble if he or she gets hurt from their own misjudgement.
Everyone thinks a bus can stop on a dime, but those of us who have driven one know better!
From what i have see this are the NOVAS with LED Tail Lamps
Fresh POND: 9140, 9142, 9159 - they are More But i Have not seen them
East New York: 8691, 8903, 8910
Ulmer Park: 9077-9081, 9083-9084, 9093, 9098-9100
9098 B6
9100 B6
This poster named "Busfan" kept answering questions and hey, We're not Jeopardy!. He should be taken off the board immediately!
Isn't that what this board is all about...to ask questions, to seek answers, to share information????
It's deja-vous all over again.
It certainly is. We all learn from each other here!
A bunch of goons from the city`s most corrupt union (local 30-Roofers union) set up a picket line outside SEPTA's Allegheney Depot and prevented the buses from going out on their routes. This screwed up the 6,9,27,33,48,60,and 65.(the Artic routes), and made commuting hell on this hot day.
These goons were protesting the use of a roofing contractor who committed the cardinal sin of being NON-UNION. Now If the Roofers Union had a gripe, they didn't have to ruin the morning commute for thounsands of commuters in North and West Philly (note: this union is also one of the most racist unions in town), they just could have taken their gripes to SEPTA and the contractors and maybe something could have been worked out. This is another reason why Philly has such an unfriendly reputation for business, and this town is left out of the loop during economic boom times.
P.S. Why is this union corrupt? For many years union leaders were in cahoots with the Mob. One of them was assassinated in a hit. Why are they racist? For years they systematically excluded minorities from joining the union by all types of tricks.
You also forgot to mention that the non-union firm in question was from Brooklyn. SEPTA's claim is that they went with the lowest bid because of federal regs. Then again, SEPTA can claim that the world is round and half the time I wouldn't believe it.
Don't some states have laws requiring that government agencies (municipal, county, state, et al) award contracts to companies within their particular state?
The 60...doesn't that one run up to MD from Chinatown? I rode a NABI artic through those two points in 1997.
For a while I've seen a former MTA suburban RTS being used by a company which operates as an independent on the NJT #88 Journal Square-North Bergen route. Today I got a close look and saw that the bus # was 3874. They have covered up the destination sign with a plain piece of paper and left the blue stripe on. It can be seen siting on Tonnelle ave just north of the Red and Tan garage in Jersey City when it is not in service.
T.Beverett
Yes, there is a couple of photos of this puppy available on TransiTALK in the 1985 GMC RTS Section of the MTA Gallery.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Today was an oven out there! At 4pm in the afternoon the thermometer hit 100 degrees here in my neck of the woods.
Fortunately all my buses came, I can thank God for the good luck. But many others, specifically on the N27, never showed. While eating dinner at my fav Chinese place in Greenvale, a view of Glen Cove road showed no N27's passing by between 4:45pm and 5:45pm. Also the 12:50pm N23 from Roslyn to Mineola never showed.
The Glen Cove bound buses scheduled to arrive at Greenvale at 4:53pm and 5:28pm never showed. And Hempstead bound, the 4:30pm out of Glen Cove never showed.
I'm assuming all these buses broke down, due to today's extreme heat. Here are the buses I rode in today-
100 series L0G powered Orion-moderate A/C but struggling
350-Even the newer S50G bus had A/C blowing warm air, most windows were open, and bus was struggling uphill at 10mph
370-Pretty cool A/C, but struggling and running real rough
378-Pretty cool A/C, struggling on hills
Has it ever occurred to you that at least some of these buses might have been caught in traffic?
Why don't you say something nice once in a while about LI Bus? It seems your entire life is hell-bent on criticizing this operation. I work there and know damn well we all try to provide the best service possible under the circumstances. Give us a break for trying to do our jobs without incessant nit-picking from you. Why don't you rent a hot air balloon (the perfect vehicle for you, in my opinion) and station yourself over Nassau County. Then you can report the doings of each and every LI Bus; it's easy, as there are huge fleet numbers on the roofs. You could be in ecstasy. Or, for additional ecstacy, stay off the buses for a few days, saving the fares in your cookie jar, then take your savings and treat yourself to a nice total Oriental massage in downtown Flushing.
I DO COMPLIMENT LI BUS!!
I've said I've had good rides on here. As far as the buses struggling in the heat, any bus would do that. When it's 100 degrees outside it is unreasonable to expect buses to operate flawlessly.
LI Bus does do it's best to serve it's customers well, but equipment does fail, especially when it's 100 degrees outside.
I just post what I see, the good and the bad. Almost all my buses had A/C. As far as how they were running, as I said before, heat strains any engine, diesel or CNG, NYCT, LI Bus, or NJ Transit.
I ask that you please don't take it so personally when I report problems with the buses, I am merely describing today's conditions.
These idiots at the LIBUS will never learn, and the riding public will suffer if they don't realize that the answer is get rid of Diesel buses and switch to ETB service. Clean and efficient mode of transportation that can get up hills in Roslyn and the Manhassett Valley area and not break down when the heat gets close to the 100 degree mark. Someday, maybe someday, the light will drawn on them.
Here is some more about ETBs:
The advantages of electric Trolleycoaches are -
To the passenger -
Zero pollution emissions in the streets
Lowest possible noise levels
Powerful but smooth acceleration and braking
Sense of permanence of service
Best ride quality
To the public generally -
Lowest possible emissions into the environment as a whole
Lowest possible consumption of non renewable resources
Lowest possible release of greenhouse gases like CO2
To the operator -
High mechanical reliability and efficiency
Long service life
No idling motor losses
Greater acceleration and hill climbing performance
Lower power costs
Lower maintenance costs
And you're going to plan the whole system and foot the bill, right? To get rid of all the diesels LI Bus has - about 50. I give you my permission to start this project right after the 4th of July Holiday.
What ever happened to the TTC trolley coaches that were retired a few years back? I'd like to see those running along Hempstead Turnpike!! ;-)
I'd rather spend my tax dollars on something that I know will last longer than something that is going to breakdown all the time..don't you agree?...don't you want your tax dollars to go toward a bus that is efficient and not a polluter?...look at San Francisco and their ETBs..they are so awesome....a perfect example and they use them in Philly too....
And LIPA can barely keep the electricity on now. How would you like to pay the fare increases involved to pay for the extra electricity needed to cover wiring and running LIB's new infratsructure? Can you guarantee an always-on electrical system independent of LIPA, or are you running at the risk of their blackouts? Are you going to convince Nassau County residents, already overtaxed from years of government mismanagement, that they should somehow pay for wiring all the necessary streets? What about detours or substitute bus service when LIRR goes down?
Diesel-electrics, maybe. ETBs on Long Island? I doubt it seriously. They can't justify the infrastructure expense.
Well, yeah...but look at how many diesels are still in perfectly good usable service out there...where would they go?
Somewhere where pollution is not an issue....like the desert.
Right. But who rides buses in the desert?
We have CNG buses, not diesel. As far as ETB is concerned, I don't think the NIMBY's would be too happy with trolley wires going up on Northern Blvd. Yes, it would be great, but it's just a pipe dream here, the NIMBY's are in control in this area. LI Bus drivers and supervisors do the best they can with their equipment. I'm sure lots of NYCTA buses broke down today too.
Also I saw alot of cars broke down too. 100 degree weather is a big strain on engines.
Yep. GBL 5536 getting towed E/B along 42 St near 5th Ave around 1pm yesterday.
#5536 QM18
It certainly is, especially in larger engines. I was in a 4th of July parade yesterday riding a 1970 Plymouth Superbird. It's a nice car and one of my favorites, but its 440 engine simply could not stand up to the heat and running in it at about 5 MPH. It got so bad my friend had to switch to low gear to turn the fan and cut on the heater to dissipate the heat from the engine compartment, and it got hot as HELL in that car. As the temperature rose up to 230 degrees, he had to pull off fromt he parade, as did some of the other cars.
The '68 Shelby Mustang in front of us was not doing much better; it was blowing steem from the exhaust and REEKED of coolant. Mostly comprised of older muscle cars, the parade was a joyous sight for all on the main drag but these things were COOKING as they rode by.
I rode home in a '63 Dodge Dart convertible that was having the same problem, but once it got up and going on the highway, its Slant Six engine cooled down and ride along just fine.
Meanwhile, no one was having this kind of trouble with the buses!
Going slow, and stop and go is the hardest on the engine in this kind of weather. That's why the buses have so much trouble on the North shore in this weather. However, even though yesterday was just as hot, I saw no problems with the LI Buses.
Probably because Northern Blvd and Glen Cove Rd wasn't the parking lot it usually is because of the holiday, so there was not much stop and go.
I don't see why they, the NIMBYs, would be upset over overhead wires......since you have every other wire to deal with in the suburbs.....especially when there is a big rain storm and the constant electrical wires that get knocked down by trees..so for anyone to tell me that NIMBYs would be against electrical overhead wires....just does not stick with me......if you tell them that traffic would flow quicker, and there would be less noise and air pollution to deal with, they would be more welcoming to the idea than to smell some dirty old Diesel bus.
at about 4:00 PM BuS #4778 on the B6 to East New York Staled on E 103 & Glenwood road it Strated Back up and Left on it own Power This
Bus Need to see the Pit
4778 B6
Don't worry, I'm not suprised. Fresh Pond has a lot of these craptastic buses which can't even handle the extreme heat. The 9100's are better than the 4600's/4700's for this type of weather. FP prefers the 9100's for their major routes, over the 4600's/4700's. Don't believe me? Look at the Q58 and tell me what you see.
BTW, I seen that crappy 4707 stuggling to go faster going down DeKalb Av.
-
Q54-RTS #9162
Q58-RTS #9178
Q55-RTS #9152
I saw 9149 in downtown Brooklyn today. The Cummins sounds fine to me.
If anyone has the updated desination reading signs for NYCT express buses, please post them on bustalk.
Why don't you stop being annoying, research the information yourself and post them on bustalk for us to look at and feel you contributed something for once!
BIG AL
Well here is a link for the destination sign codes.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/9293/Express.htm
Now instead of asking for someone to post them on BusTalk, why don't you post them for us.
go to www.geocities.com/nyctbusman2000/destsigns and look for the express routes and post em yourself.i already printed them along with all 5 boros of the city and the subway shuttles but im not posting them cause i dont feel a need to do so.
Call me after Monday 914 668 9218
Steve
and for what reason should i?
i think it would be better if you just posted them.
Maybe he wants to ask you out on a date.
Saw this bus on the M5 Limited at 5th Ave and 41 St yesterday with Manhattanville Stickers. I guess it was 8316's replacement.
#4349 M5
8316 was a Yukon bus, why would it be replaced at MV?
It was there when it was involved in the accident with a garbage truck. I was saying the same thing. Why was 8316 at MHV?
RIP 8316!
#4349 M5
According to the Fleet Status Board at 126th Street Depot, bus # 4349 has been transfered to Manhattanville.
I don't know if you would remember this DHF60, but a couple of years ago, maybe two I believe, 4349 and 4356 were transferred over to 126th st depot for about a month or two. Then suddenly they were transferred back to Jamaica again. I remember seeing them coming back with the 126th st.logos on them. I don't know why they like moving 4349 around so much, but I would not be suprised if it makes it's way back to Jamaica again for the Sept. pick.
BIG AL
I can't honestly say that I remember # 4349 being previously assigned to 126 but I'll take your word for it. It's not unusual for buses to have brief stays at 126 and then move on. It wouldn't bother me if it came back. It actually was a pretty decent running bus. The day I had it on the M31 I worked it hard and it ran without any problems. It's another of the Pontiac, Michigan GMC built RTS's that will be able to be driven to the scrap yard under it's own power.
For those of you who guessed that PA1852 would be the last running 1982 RTS, you are 100% correct!!! Buses PA1751, PA1767, PA1826 and PA2660 have been scrapped at either Calverton or Nimco Scrap Yards. Bus PA1773 is at Carlton Yard awaiting it's trip to the scrapper, and 2270 is pending scrap at Yukon.
Long live 1852!!
Mark
1852 still running after 20 years. i drove this bus at ulmer park from 1982-1987 and again at yukon in the middle to late 90s when it was replaced by the mcis. can one still see out the passenger windows?
I mean no disrespect by this question, but just out of curiousity, does anybody over the age of 30 care about RTS's? I'm 42 years old, and while I admit to shedding tears when learning of when certain fishbowls were scrapped years ago, some of my "peers" and I marvel at how a lot of you guys actually know and care about a PARTICULAR RTS. To us "old fogies", an RTS is an RTS. And if any particular RTS was or is being scrapped, Good Riddance! Buh-bye! Hasta la vista!
So anyway, I'm just curious to know if anyone older than 25 or 30 has the same feelings as I do, that an RTS is just an RTS. Remember, no disrespect intended!
I'm not over the age of 30 (give me another two years and two months), and I personally don't care much about one RTS vs. another -- but I have fond memories of riding specifically the 1982 RTS, sandwiched between the 1981 RTS (with its small design flaws) and the 1983 RTS (with the first of the kludges that have been piled onto the basic RTS design ever since). The 1982 RTS is simply the most elegant bus the TA has ordered since the beginning of the ADB era, and now there's only one left. I appreciate being informed of that fact.
If you don't care, then ignore this thread and move on. I skip about half the threads on BusTalk because they don't interest me, but apparently they interest someone. I don't see why some people get bent out of shape when they have no interest in a topic that interests others.
I am not "bent out of shape". Normally I do ignore threads like this. As I said, I was just curious, conducting an informal "survey", if you will.
What's so elegant about a 1982 RTS? Are you referring to the soft seat buses or all of the 1982's in general? Granted, as I just said in a previous post, they had the best destination signs of all the RTS's from the 1980's, however I don't think they are any better or worse than the other years.
BIG AL
P.S. All right, I'll admit, the 1983's did suck pretty bad. But I don't feel the 1982's were much better or worse than the rest of the RTS's from the '80's.
The hard-seaters. I've never ridden a TA express bus in my life; I've only ridden the soft-seaters when they run on local routes.
The handrail on the back of each double seat was a single curved piece, rather than the unsightly soldered contraption of 1983 (1984?) to the present.
The rear door had long handrails and no air assist tape. (Yes, the air assist tape serves a useful function, but it detracts from the streamlined appearance.) The ugly white light hadn't yet come on the scene, nor had the modified interlock.
The front door usually opened and closed nearly silently. Of course, there was no interlock yet to slow down service (isn't it slow enough already?).
Another example of aesthetics vs. functionality: the rear route display.
Even the initial pain job was better than on subsequent models: it was smooth, and the stop request tapes weren't coated in plastic.
(Yes, I notice this sort of stuff! Even scarier: I noticed it at age eight!)
I haven't seen your other post, but I actually disagree with you on the destination signs -- they were hard to make out. Destination signs have generally improved over time.
so what were the original interior colors of the 1981 82,etc rts?
The 1981 was originally off-white. I believe the 1982 had basically the current black color scheme from the start (the emergency exit levers under the windows may have been white -- I'm not sure).
Yes - 1981 was white and 1982-up were black.
I never cared much for the RTS at all. I did like the 1982 and the the few from the 1981 bunch that had the DD 6V-92TA engines (1298-1317, 2281-2300).
Wayne
I'm not shedding any tears although in my own personal opinion the RTS's built between 1981-1988 were the best. The 1990-1999's are absolute garbage. Despite my overall dislike for the RTS, I'd have to admit that because of it's ruggedness and reliability, it deserves a place in the transit bus hall of fame.
I agree that since 1852 was the last 1982 GMC RTS Suburban to operate in revenue service that it's prize should be to join the museum fleet along with the others. Just like Blitz 5227. That bus was the last 1 to be pulled from revenue service. 1852 should have that same destiny.
#1852 X90
#5227 B61
I am a little unsure if I would agree with you about 1852 becoming a museum bus, don't you think 2270 deserved it more? After all the 1981's were gone for a couple years and just out of no where they are sending 2270 back on the road to do service. The way I am thinking it, its very much a tie who would deserve to enter the historic fleet. I think it may be even too late for 2270, if they have already sent her to Nimco, I don't know her location maybe someone can tell me if she is sitting at Yukon or in some storage yard.
Jason D.
The last I heard, 2270 is still at Yukon but in storage. 2660 has been scrapped I heard.
I'd have to say the 1981 model would be the best candidate; they were the very first RTSes to hit the MTA, and those are now a staple of NYC and look to be for a very long time, much like the Checker Cab.
-F.
You're forgetting one thing. Transit already has a 1981 RTS in the museum. Bus 1201 IS the first RTS to officially run for Transit even though the very first RTS to run unofficially, for testing purposes, was slopeback bus #200 from 1979-1980.
Here's a little easy quiz for some of you novices. What was the number of the first RTS that ran in MABSTOA?
Q5Merrick, Brooklyn67, Newflyer, DHF60 and everybody else who works for transit, please don't answer this question. I know you know the answer. And that goes for you too TOR-nado! LOL
BIG AL
Bus # 2201?
Well, I'm thinking bus #2201 but this could be a trick question. Is it #2201?
It was GMC-RTS #2201 MaBSTOA came out from old 132th Street or Amsterdam Depot back in early 1981. They should have kept GMC-RTS #2201 for museum.
David
MaBSTOA
If that's the case, I agree.
Wow...wonder if anyone has pics of slopeback no. 200 frlm 1979-80? Actually, that wasn't technically the first RTS to hit NYC; IIRC from research, GM sent a Transbus prototype there around 1975-76, which was basically an RTS slopeback with a funky round headlight front end.
It's good to hear that 1201 is still being preserved at the museum.
-F.
yes it is and i took a picture in front of it at the bus roadeo. it was restored almost to its originality. does anyone know the three thing about it that make it not exactly like its 1981 debut?
New MTA logo on it.
Does not say PA 1201
Does not say Purchased by the Port Authority of NY & NJ
Missing old logo.
Door painted white? (Front & Back)
Missing Quality Control Bus and Depot sticker?
Inside painted black instead of normal white.
These are my guesses.
I did not realize these originally had "PA" numbers. Were any of the Grummans ever like this, or were they ever used for Port Authority?
The Grumman Flx's MSBA had used the PA designation in front of the bus number. These were the 1000 series.
actually it was always 1201. the pa bought buses for transit from 1982 on and leased them to nyct. you are right there is no m sticker on bus and bus is painted black inside. dashboard used to be blue in those days. to tell you the truth i didnt notice door colors.
I think the doors look a lot better in black; those white door frames are just tacky on an RTS!
How come I remember riding 1576 and seeing PA?
The PA numbers on the 1981 buses didn't start until either the upper 1300's or at the 1400's. I can't recall the exact number at the moment. The highest 1981's in the 1000 series went up to 1658.
The "PA" designation started at PA1318 for the TA 1981's and PA2301 for the MaBSTOA '81's, and continued straight through the 1982 fleet. For the record the 1983's started at PA3091.
Mark
i stand corrected. pa1576 still exists without the pa. its been seen on law and order. its owned by a private co. and used for tv shoots.
Didn't it start around 1500?
I personally don't consider RTS 1201 to be a genuine museum bus, mainly because it has NOT been restored to its original look. Bus 1201 and the rest of the 1981 RTS's had the following features.
1) All fixed, non-opening windows.
2) All-white interior.
3) The old "M" logo centered beneath the windshield, near both front wheels and centered on the rear engine door.
4) No "PA" prefix before the bus number.
5) Bus number in large white numerals on the lower-LEFT corner of the "black" portion of the rear.
6) Bus number in small blue stickers beneath the right set of tail- lights.
7) 6V-71 engine (as opposed to the current 6V-92 that it has right now).
...just to name a few.
Mark
I agree with that, Mark. Wait....1201 has the same type of engine as lets say the 1984-1988 RTS buses? Bus #3905, #4320, #4446 to name a few? That's weird. Why would they do that?
From what I gather, 1201 was retrofitted with a 6v92; it originally came with a 6v71 as most of the early-80s fleet did.
How did it wind up being changed over to a 6v92? That I can certainly understand. The original engine is the way to go.
Also, perhaps the windows are not a bad thing in case the A/C is broken in terms of practicality; we have the same situation on our restored 1979 Grumman 870. While the bus originally came with the more aesthetically pleasing flush side windows, one rear quarter window was replaced with a sliding Flx Metro unit shortly before the coach was retired.
While this is not original to the bus, it is only one pane so it does not retract from the looks as bad as replacing all of them would have, and it has really saved the day during "standing room only" runs when the A/C froze up due to low speed.
Another help is that our bus was retrofitted with Transpec roof vents during its latter days of service. Once again, not original, but they really help cool the bus on a hot day. And you can barely see them up on the roof!
-F.
I can faintly recall when transbus was in the area, however I do not believe it ever entered any service what so ever. It was basically a concept bus which was displayed like the buses at bus fest. It was also not called a RTS. Thus, slopeback #200 is the first real RTS to run on the streets of NYC, mainly for testing purposes.
2201 is the first Mabstoa RTS to enter service. It is or was exactly like bus 1201, so there would be no reason to give it museum status. To agree with other people posting about 1201, it has been altered to look like a current RTS which was a big mistake by transit.
It should be repainted to look the way it originally did back in 1981. There are no major changes with the 1982's to give any of them museum status. Simply because a door handle, grab bar or horn button is slightly different is not significant enough. This is also probably the main reason why none of my favorite new look buses, the 1977 9000 series Flxibles were given museum status. Other than the interior lights and rubber covered bumpers, they were no different from the 1975 & 1976's.
BIG AL
Yes, I thought alot of the 9000 series Flxibles myself. So basically, I guess the newest Flxible NewLook would be 7340 correct? For a '73 Flx, I find it odd that that bus has a mechanical handbrake. I thought by that time everything had airbrakes.
Really? I would have thought the same thing too. So the 7300s do not have an airbrake system?
2204, not 2201 (and not 1201), was the first NYC Transit RTS (as opposed to a demonstrator) to enter service, on August 9, 1981. By the way, 2201 DID have a difference from other NYC Transit RTSs -- it had THREE roof hatches! Another "different" 1981 RTS was 1237, which had a Sutrak roof-mounted air conditioner (later replaced by a standard unit).
David
Did 1237 originally come with the Sutrak, or was this a later add-on?
I'm going from memory here, but I think it was original. It didn't last more than 3-4 years before being replaced with a standard unit.
David
I see; so the Sutraks weren't very good back in 1981?
The unit worked when I rode the bus. Remember, though, it was the only NYCT bus with such a unit (except for one or two "New Looks" that got them as tests before the "Blitzes" were retrofitted). For whatever reason, a decision was made to stick with the standard system. Given that, it didn't make sense to keep the Sutrak, with its unique parts needs, on one bus.
David
No, it doesn't. They should have standardized parts for A/C, especially if the buses are around the same age.
Even if they do the same thing, in substantially the same way, similar pieces of equipment by two different manufacturers are bound to have parts that are not interchangeable. This is true in the world of buses as well as in other areas.
That said, there's no need to go around in circles on this. If anyone here can provide concrete reasons as to why the Sutrak unit was removed from NYCT 1981 RTS 1237 and replaced with a unit similar to those on the rest of NYCT's 1981 RTS fleet, please do.
David
David
Yeah, and the A/C on those Blitz Fishbowls worked pretty damn good. Sadly, the first thing M.S.B.A. did when they got them was disconnect the A/C. It was deferred maintenenance from that point on....
Yeesh. Why they could not keep a good thing going is beyond me. Was it lack of funding or labor, or did maintenance just not feel like working on them anymore?
I really wish one of the 9000 series Flxes were kept for the museum. Any idea if any 1975-76 models were preserved?
Yes, there is one 1975 Flxible in the museum fleet, but I don't remember the number.
BIG AL
OOH! Find out for me...I want to know more about it!
Within the last two weeks I have seen 1852 on the X90/92, as well as 4883.
1852 should join the museum fleet, since it is an express bus. Although I would rather have seen the 1700 that stayed at QV its entire life.
Yes, put this bus in the museum, it deserves it. 1981 and 1982 RTS's were good buses. I'm glad to see 1852 survive for this long. I just hope it doesn't see FP or else it will see death.
I was wondering who runs this route? and has anyone seen it running?
they dont exist at all although they are on the express bus destination signs for future use.X80:code number=Randalls Island.code number 7801=E.Harlem 125 ST-LEX AV #4/5/6 Train Metro North.
X81:code number 7810=Randalls Island.code number 7811=Woodside #7 Train/LIRR. there's also codes for an X82,X83,X84,X85 and X86.X82 from
Randall's Island-Inwood Dyckman St.X83 Yankee Stadium- Randalls Island.X84 Randall's Island-Shea Stadium.X85 Randalls Island-G W Bridge A Train.X86 Randall Island-w.Harlem BWAY-145 ST #1 Train.
They're not future routes. They're actual routes that operate when special events are happening at Randalls Island. A fare ($3, I think) is collected going toward Randalls Island, with no fare in the other direction.
A fan named "FDNY" posts sign readings here every once in a while. He posts the readings, but not the codes -- this is in the interest of discouraging people from boarding buses (say, by trespassing on NYCT (depot) property) and playing with the signs. It's a good idea.
David
So who runs them, I had recall seeing this route and I remember now it was at the M35 bus stop at 125 St and Lex Av. And the other question is if there is a M35 to Randells Isl., then why have a x80? (of course if it belongs to MTA)
I think ALL depots in a way do because I was talking to this B/O from Casey Stengel and he posted the X80 or X81 from 74th St/Broadway in Queens to Randell's Island.
Well, as far as I have seen, only 126th Street Depot buses are found on the x80; I was also told that by a 126th T/O.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
Because of what events take place on Randalls'. The M35 provides regular service. The x80 series of routes bring people from these transit hubs to the island. They are signed as 'X' buses to free route numbers for the regular service. They also charge the x-bus fare. When you board the bus after the event, you do not pay a fare to return to the transit hub you boarded at. In case no one noticed, there are extremely limited option for getting to and from the island. My brother has been to Ozzfest and Lollapalloza by this method.
-Hank
Went to Pentagon City for lunch, then to Federal Center SW, as Smithsonian is closed, to scope out the state of things on the mall. Lots of National Guard trucks in front of the white house, including a couple Blue Bird personnel buses. Security is pretty tight with the fences and checkpoints but the lines aren't long. A heavy police presence in evidence -- lots of impalas and suburbans, etc. Metro-B #9452 was serving dual functions as a roadblock and as an air-conditioned cooling station at 4th and Independence. Went to L'Enfant Plaza to return and train was delayed 15-20 minutes because of stalled train at Archives-Navy Mem'l. Around 4:00, Metro was singletracking around the stalled train(all three carsets were Breda 4000s) from Mt. Vernon Sq. to L'Enfant Plaza.
Did I mention it's hot as hell down on the mall?
C
This bus is now at Hudson Pier. I rode this a few days ago on the M6 and it had Hudson Pier Stikcers on it and it was repowered.
Around 130 pm Orion # 246 was hit on the left side on the Bronx Whitestone Bridge N/B and lost his Driver side mirror .The Motor Home that hit it fled the scene .The Bus was O>O>S till 630 pm as the road truck had to make two trips to GunHill to find the proper mirror .
The B. O. didnt mind since it was his 1st trip and we treated him well. It was written up as bus moving 20 mph in right lane ,motorhome passed bus in middle lane going approx 30 mph striking and breaking miorror off bus with his right side mirror .
Im gonna let u guys know that this happens every day with trucks and tour buses since our lanes arent wide . When and if they get artics ,your gonna have an accident every day because these cars out here do not give buses the break they need to move over three lanes when they come into the Bronx and have to get to the left EZ PASS lanes from the right hand lane .
Doesn't 246 operate out of MCH and not CS
Last time I saw it, it was in MCH...
I should know, I live by an MCH line...lol
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
I suppose that MTA Bridges and Tunnels won't be too thrilled, but TA buses operating over the Whitestone Bridge ought to do the same thing B39 buses do over the WillyB: take up part of 2 traffic lanes so as to allow sufficient clearance on both sides of the bus. Let the automobile drivers blow their horns. T.S.
Got a chance to ride on this bus on the Q44 yesterday evening. I knew beforehand that this bus (along with #290, #291, and #292) differed from the rest of the Orions in their respective order in that a Cummins engine powered this bus. I may be wrong, but when moving the engine had a HUMM to it that sounded somewhat like a Cummins C8.3. Or if not, then a DDS50 in the early stages of its production.
I think those were all repowered, the Cummins engine was removed.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but I wish the TA would remove those sick sounding Cummins engines from 9140 to 9149 at FP.
Hey some Cummins engines are good. I've heard those at FP they sound pretty zippy to me. NJT's RTS's use Cummins (C8.3 I think) and boy they are fast.
The only Cummins product I don't like is the L10G, which is what the older Orion CNG's at LI Bus and the Orion CNG's at JG use. They have a nasty habit of stalling while in motion.
But the L10G ones are alot smoother than the clunky Series 50G's in our new buses.
Cummins do have nice pick up, but if you have ever passed their facility in Newark you would see so many NJT Novas there, so it kinda goes to show they do have problems. One of the problems I see the most frequent is the bus overheats. These are the NJT units I am talking about.
Orions with Series 50 overheat alot too, believe me.
First, only buses #295-297 and #299-300 use to have the Cummins engines. They were repowered. Buses #291-294 NEVER DID have cummins engines. They were always DD50 series engines. The same goes for buses #400-401.
Just out of curiosity, what is the traffic load on the Q4 and Q5 between Jamaica Center and the intersection of Merrick and Linden Blvds. on Sundays between 9AM and 3PM. And is there any one site that is the main source of these loads (other then Jamica Center, of course)?
The 4 and 5 also pick up a good load of passengers at Archer/Merrick as well
That's interesting. Save for the end of the Jamaica Center strip and the Q20/Q44 terminal, all there is at Archer/Merrick is the car wash at the corner.
The biggest load you will pick up between Linden Blvd and Jamaica center on a Sunday will be at the Allen AME Cathedral located at 111th ave and Merrick blvd. Alot of times when I drove the Q4 on a Sunday, I would leave out of that stop with a loose standing load. Also the same coming back to Cambria Heights.
BIG AL
I had a feeling about that. I was told once that the services in the Cathedral go on all day due to the volume of people coming in and out of the place. I also had a feeling that local transit improvement possibilities (especially on the Q5 to Green Acres, which I know gets good traffic even on Sundays) for the most part went out the window when Pastor Flake stepped down from Congress.
Greetings! Many questions, many postings. Let's say this, the thought process in response to BLX has been very stimulating for you and BLX. If there are those that can't feel the third person, then don't monitor BLX postings. BLX is an abbreviation for BLACK X. In the stone age and later, the black x was used as a signature form. Jump ahead to the latest technology, and the black x is used by many computer programs as a delete function. It get's the job done without much fanfare. It's to the point without the bells and whistles (who made up this term?) As for the 'keep the transit dream alive' message. Ponder this my fellow transit purists, do you think corporate America really considers mass transit important? Except for purchasing and destroying the airlines, wall streeters and dot commers have no use for buses, subways, Amtrak, Greyhound, etc. Some of you are already connecting to the mind of BLX. No rush to respond, watch what others say and do and when the time is right, here's BLX. No Ricky Henderson, no Hollywood Hogan (Hogan's Heroes-yes). BLX is out, but will return at the appropriate signal.
Here's the BLX signal. I agree; America has really lost a lot of respect for public transit. It really sucks, and we should find a way to do something about it. I think the key is education. Teach the public about transit via brochures, seminars, etc. and explain that buses, etc are NOT bad...they actually reduce traffic and save the environment. No one gets it. We need to make them catch on!
Talk to you soon; same BLX time, same BLX channel...
-FLX
One problem, in some areas, people don't want to wait 1 hour for a bus to come when they can drive. Of course who wants to stand on a bus when you can sit down in your comfortable car. Those are just some of the reasons why people don't want to take buses. Another is that some people don't like sitting next to strangers (have you ever noticed why there is usually a race everytime a single seat is empty?)
That is the general concensus of many people, and it is understandable. However, what about those who are not able to drive?
Also, the way transit is overlooked these days, you will not have to worry about standing on many buses. And as far as strangers, one of the joys of riding the bus is meeting new people from all different walks of life....at least that's the way I look at it.
spotted on this route today bus 8218. i assume this is a brand new bus. is this a 40 footer. if so njt may have some plans for cng buses 7001-7077.
The CNGs aren't going anywhere, as there is no other garage that can fuel them. Howell will be getting some 40 footers as well as the 45s to replace the remaining MC-9s.
8218 is a 45 footer!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Oh geez... Whoever came up with the numbering and allocation scheme at NJT needs to be flipping burgers instead. At this point, MCI must be slapping on whatever 4-digit number seems like a good idea.
Is this the bus# for Freehold Raceway Mall?
What kind of equipment can I expect when I ride it? If it's all CNG's I'll have to have my fingers crossed!
Yes it gose to the mall, as for buses types it is whatever couches that are in Howell Depot.
Robert
You'll be riding either a CNG bus or a new 45 footer! Either way it will be a good ride.
T.Beverett
These buses are SMOOOTH!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact I am gonna be working with the 45 footer tonight! Boy am I gonna have fun. I gotta make sure I raise the rear though on just one turn or else bye bye bus.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
with all 25 new mci buses at castleton ive still seen orion suburbans on the gowanus xpwy. 127 and 130 were moved from castleton to yukon.
I happened to be watching Forrest Gump the other day, and a scene comes on where the lady's #4 arrives, and she has all this time to say Goodbye to Forrest Gump, and sachet over to her bus WITHOUT BEING LEFT BEHIND.
When I thought about it, almost every Hollywood rendition of a transit stop pickup is completely phoney! People have gobs of time to share goodbyes and hugs, and the B/O just sits there patiently waiting, never uttering even a word as to how god awful slow these self absorbed people are being in inconveniencing the rest of the bus. If it were me driving, THEY'D BE LEFT, or at the least, have something smart said to them about their long winded ways.
Every time I see this, it makes it harder for me to enjoy the film or the charachters, seeing as how self-centered people are. Has anyone else noticed this?
What I have noticed is people pulling that crap at various train stations along the raritan Valley Line. One time we even left somebody, and they missed the last train of the night. We gave them 3 stern warnings that we were leaving, they (a guy and a girl smooching) were standing only a few feet from the door. Still, no movement toward the door. We hopped on, closed the doors, and only then did the potential passenger notice and bang on the closed door as the train was moving. Buh-bye!!
Well at least they had the rest of the night to get their longing out of their system while awaiting the first train of the morning....
but I can just hear the call to the complaints department the next day "Yes, the conductor simply opened the doors quickly, and all I did was say goodbye to my friend, and boom, they left me there to be stranded ALLLLL night long! How could the conductor be so cruel?!?"
Why didn't they just get a room and get it ALL out of their system...LOL!
I agree with you 100% people have plenty of time to say their goodbyes when they see the bus or train approaching. Why they wait until the door is open is something I'll never understand. I've left many a person waiting for the next bus because of that. The worst thing to me is when someone tries to finish up a smoke on my time. They will take several short puffs then either put it out on the side of the bus or break it with their fingers. Some even blow the smoke out on the bus which smells terrible.
T.Beverett
They should not be allowed to blow smoke on the bus; that defeats the purpose of banning smoking in the first place! Also, aren't there laws to prevent them from putting it out on the side of the bus? I can't believe those cretins are doing that...SHEEZE! If I had just painted that bus, I'd be wanting to knock some heads.
Good, serves em right!
I can't stand seeing that smoochy crap in public anyway so screw them all!
LOL...are we waxing bitter about PDA?
I was just happy to see the buses myself, but you're right; only in Hollywood. That just wouldn't happen in real life, unless the person riding knew the B/O really well and it was a time check...
Oh yes, and the B/O would have to be WAY ahead of schedule.
[I happened to be watching Forrest Gump the other day, and a scene comes on where the lady's #4 arrives, and she has all this time to say Goodbye to Forrest Gump, and sachet over to her bus WITHOUT BEING LEFT BEHIND.]
There's also a running boo-boo through the whole movie:
The bus stop is in a park - specifically, one of the 16 beautiful and historic "squares" in the oldest part of Savannah, Georgia. H-o-w-e-v-e-r, as many tourists - myself included - have discovered while searching for "the" Forrest Gump bus stop bench, traffic around those squares runs COUNTER-clockwise; in other words, the street was reversed for filming purposes, and Forrest was waiting on what should have been the driver's side of the bus!! (BTW, "the" bench was appropriated by a member of the film crew. A replica is at the Savannah visitors center.)
Wow...I totally forgot that was filmed in Savannah! That part of the film was set in the early Eighties (around 1981) and showed early model Gillig Phantoms; were those correct buses and paint schemes for their TA at the time? They certainly had era-correct side ads; one was for "The All-New Chevy Citation"...ah, takes me back. LOL!
And an N20 idles at the bus stop in Great Neck for the short run to Flushing. But 368 stalls out. Fortunately it restarts.
Why do CNG's seem to stall so much?
>>And an N20 idles at the bus stop in Great Neck for the short run to Flushing. But 368 stalls out. Fortunately it restarts.
Why do CNG's seem to stall so much?<<
Because they know you're watching !!!
Bill "Newkirk"
So you have another negative thing about LI Bus to report..... I'm sure you couldn't be truly happy unless you are able to criticize LI Bus a minimum of once each day. I've heard a rumor that all buses are being equiped with sensors that detect the presence of Qtraindash7 within a 500 foot radius. These sensors cause the vehicle to stall or otherwise malfunction in order to make your day, and keep you, our most vocal customer, satisfied.
Isn't there proof CNG is less reliable than diesel? I've only seen a LI Bus diesel Orion stall once in my years of riding them. Even though the Gilligs were crappy buses I never had 'em stall either. If CNG is so great, why hasn't NYCT converted their fleet to all CNG like LI Bus??
I guess you missed my other post about the LI Bus rides I took on July 4th with no problems. You seem to look for my negative messages and then claim I don't have a positive thing to say about LI Bus.
If a bus has a problem, whether that be LI or NYCT, I'm gonna mention it. Busfans are into these things. And why do I report on LI so much and not NYCT? Because I live in LI Bus territory and don't ride NYCT buses any more than once or twice a week.
>>>Because I live in LI Bus territory and don't ride NYCT buses any more than once or twice a week. <<<<
Yeah, on your REDUCED FARE metrocard.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah..but he is so right!.....why not dump this stupid scheme and get the ETBs once and for all!...we would all be better off.....with reliable buses that work when you want them to work...
CNGs suck - MARTA is currently purchassing more CNG busses and they are horrible. I had one bus shooting out green flames on the side of the road but that same bus was running its route the next morning. But what everyone in the MTAs service area should be happy with what they have. Going home to Brooklyn and knowing that the B41 and the B46 are waiting for me in front of Kings Plaza 24/7/365 compared to MARTA which costs more, the average bus runs 20 mins apart during rush hours and just wasted away all of their money on CNG busses that breakdown regularly. Thats probably why all of their real busy bus routes still use diesel Just think, when's the last time you saw a diesel with flames shooting out of the back.
Yeah I think CNG's do that when the "turbo" blows. They do weird and funny things, and electric hybrid buses are better
Om August 1 2002 Valley Metro Is Discontinuing Fares paid on buses by Visa & Mastercard Credit/Debit Cards. I thing the system was not used. or the costs were too high to except single fare payment by CC and Debit cards. (Credit & Debit cards are still excepted for Pass & Ticket Purchace By Mail Or at central station & Tempe Transit Store.)
After the discussion of WMATA's paint scheme, let's get a discussion on SEPTA's paint scheme. There were so many, from '68 to today, you might find it hard to find a place to begin. So please let's here your favorite SEPTA livery.
After the discussion of WMATA's paint scheme, let's get a discussion on SEPTA's paint scheme. There were so many, from '68 to today, you might find it hard to find a place to begin. So please let's hear your favorite SEPTA livery.
I'd have to say that I liked the R-W-B seen on the GM and Flxible New Looks. Clean, colorful, yet still rather simple. Though I do also like the look of a new gold bus as well, I can see where it was a maintenance nightmare to touch up!
Where can I find pics of the various schemes so that I may vote?
groups.msn.com/theseptamessageboard
http://groups.msn.com/SEPTARedArrowCommunity/home.htm
,,
Hmm...nice photos; I could not get in to the SEPTA message board, but from the second link, the best-looking buses are the NABIs. And what a neat photo of the AM General trolley!
groups.msn.com/theseptamessageboard
http://groups.msn.com/SEPTARedArrowCommunity/home.htm
,,
Can't get in. What happened?
I'm kind of partial to the present paint scheme, particularly on an overhauled NABI. Then again, I've only been down in Philly since 1995, so that's not much to go by.
Well my favorite is when the back in 90 when/on the 1980's neoplan have a septa black trim around the windows and the old septa logo in front sign.
,,,
,,,when septa have not ads on there buses.which make the paint schemes seen easier.
The black window trim version was my favorite, also. When they began repainting them without it, the busses looked like "yuch".
Chuck Greene
I agree; sounds like these are in the same boat as Flxible Metros. They just don't look right without the black trim!
Since starting my new job in Manhattan, I have decided to travel on the Q31 to 169st and Hillside Ave. so I can catch the F train from there. Lately, I have noticed that on my return trip in the evening, the Q31 is equipped with hi-back seats which is great after a long day at work. My question is why the change in seats?....is this a bus used on express routes?...when I go to work in the mornings from Bayside, the seats are regular hard seats but covered with felt cloth.
Those are the coaches formerly used solely as express buses, which have been placed into local service after receiving our shipment of new MCI express coaches. They now run on all local routes.
The fact that you've received this type of bus repeatedly is coincidence.
This happens all the time on the S61 and S79.When I was taking the S61 to the SI Mall I saw three on the S61. The first one was 174, the second was 162 and the third was 174. I also saw 174 on the S79.
174 is not a coach. It is a local bus at MCH. 173-316 are locals.
101-172 are Coaches.
#174 M1
#172 S61
162 is castleton bus.s61 is a yukon line.
All newer buses come equipped with a "brake retarder system". This retarder system allows faster stopping of the bus by using engine knockdown in addition to the braking mechanism.
During high temperatures, when the retarder system is activated, it creates excessive heat in the engine area, promoting overheating and failure. Orion buses specifically are prone to overheat attribution.
Orion buses should always be operated with the retarder in the "off" or unactivated position during high temperature days. This will help prevent overheating and road failure.
FYI
I know in NYCT they recommend they shut the retarders off in hot weather. I don't know what they do in LI Bus, perhaps that is why so many overheat here is because the retarders are on.
Orions have poor engine compartment design, especially those with Series 50 having that stupid hump in the back. RTS is a far superior design.
If you need help with bus destination materials,,let me know
Steve
Thank god! Steve, buddy!!!!! What is your website for the NYCDOT Designation signs? Thanks! Welcome Back! Can't wait to hea about your updates!
Welcome back; I just returned myself after a long hiatus. Let's talk buses!
-Fred
I knew it was bound to happen to me sometime. I use an RFM (Reduced Fare Metrocard)and put an amount for weekly unlimited use. Well the first bus I took today it was fine. Problem began on the 2nd bus. My card kept getting a READ ERROR. I tried it several times, the driver even wiped it with a cloth, but still saying READ ERROR.
Same thing happened on the 3rd bus I took. Both LI Bus drivers were very nice about it and didn't make me pay fare. One of the drivers said to go to a subway station token booth and they should be able to fix it. I'm going to Main street in Flushing tomorrow, hopefully they will be able to fix it.
I wonder how it happened. Well I just hope they will be able to fix it, or I guess I'll have to go to Jay street and get a new one.
Re-using something for so long, I can imagine these things get magnetized or something.
The station agents are not allowed to do much with a MetroCard that has a problem. You will have to go to Jay St. or mail it in.
So should I go to the token booth and have them look at it?
Or I should just go to Jay street on Monday?
It's kinda funny it says READ ERROR just like when a CD doesn't want to play! Tapes are more reliable, but that's audio lingo.
It won't hurt to ask a station agent. Maybe you'll get satisfaction.
I'll be in Flushing tomorrow anyway so I'll ask
last time i saw this bus was at the transit fair. now has anyone seen this bus? the bus get move around like a prositute on a selling floor.
why don't the m42 have artic buses on there route?
Because HP or AMS don't operate artrics(even though they will get artrics in all likely hood when HP closes and the 42 shifted to MJQ along with the 14)
The M42 is with MJQ but the M42 will not see artics because the MTA plans not to use them on 42nd St. That what I know. I'm sure the usual guys (Q5Merrick, BIG AL and David) will voice their opinion about this same question being brought up again
I was just wonderning on how many new MCI buses has NJ Transit received this year & how many did each depot receive along with their seriel numbers.
I went to Flushing today, and my Metrocard was still doing READ ERROR on the bus and in the subway it said "Please Swipe Again".
So I went to the token booth, where I gave the Metrocard to the lady, who put in a machine (looked sorta like a bus farebox)and said that the bus corrupted my Metrocard, not just once, but twice, according to the computer. I will have to go to Jay street and get another RFM.
Fortunately she was very nice and gave me two slips of paper for entry to the subway, so I won't have to pay extra when I go Jay street tomorrow.
I did pay with change (using my RFM as ID) on the bus going, since I didn't want to push my luck with the drivers.
On my trip to Flushing, an N20 ahead of us broke down on the hill (#311) in Roslyn, so the trip in was a bit crowded, but we weren't too delayed. Had #317 both ways, fortunately she ran fine.
"On my trip to Flushing, an N20 ahead of us broke down on the hill (#311) in Roslyn, so the trip in was a bit crowded"
Uh, oh!! Don't let Joe Saitta see this! More NEGATIVE LI Bus revelations!
John, Send it to Jay Street. I don't think you'll be happy with your visit to Jay Street ... they don't like walk in customers.
Mr rt__:^)
It went fine, I only had a short wait and they gave me a temp card in the meantime. Otherwise I'd have to wait longer and have to pay full fare, cant afford that!
That is an amazing story. Must be that you charmed them at the front desk. Didn't try to get to the 13th floor as long as you were already in the building ?
Mr rt__:^)
I was on a Greyhound from Binghamton NY to Nyc when i saw out the window next to a barn a Gillig Bus parked 50 Ft away facing the Highway . On its left side was painted in the windows 4 sale 65000.
We were on RTE 380 south just before hitting Rte 80 west .By the way i rode a no a/c Prevost coach ( driver played it off saying he didnt want to freeze us ).
Where was this, and what TA livery was it in?
No Livery
All White
I have no idea where i was exactly on Route 380
Ick. Sounds pretty placid...like it could use a new livery!
I don't think I could see myself paying $6500 for a Gillig. They're OK and all, but I'd rather spend my money on a Flx if I buy a bus.
If it's in the Scranton area, wouldn't it be logical that it could have come from COLTS -- the local agency? They did have some older Gillig Phantoms, 35-footers at that.
( I HAVENT A CLUE )
Isnt Six Thousand cheap for bus ? If its in running condition .
Depends on a lot of things.
Many times you can get one cheaper than that directly from a transit agency when they retire groups of buses. I've seen them go for as little as $600.00 for a 1976 GM T6H4523A that was in excellent condition, only missing one side window panel and low mileage (less than 300,000) and this was three years ago!!!
Most large transit agencies lease their tires from manufacturers, so you would buy the bus fromt he agency, then make a deal with the tire people for the rubber that's on the bus at the auction.
Now back to Gilligs....when my employer sold off their 105-unit fleet of 1983's, they went for an average of $4,300 apiece. Many went to bus resellers, some went south of the border (where they still run, held together with duct tape and chewing gum).
Thanks S H
thought buses went for more .
Very true; in fact, some of our Flxible New Looks from 1976 went for as low as $500.00 each when they were auctioned a few years ago. If I would have known about this, I would have been all OVER them! Also, TARTA in Toledo started bids for their 1988 Flxible Metro Bs (complete with running 6v92TAs) for the same price last year.
We retired our 1988 Gillig Phantoms from Valley Metro last year when new ones came in, same 6v92 setup; they all went for around $5,000 each and were very well maintained. For some reason, Gilligs command a higher price, yet they are low-bid buses to begin with.
-F.
I wouldn't give 65 CENTS for a used Gillig.
And have to travel to Scranton Pa or its outskirts for an inspection and decision on purchasing it.
I knew that was coming.
Until you have driven those damned Gillig Phantoms eight horus a day, five days a week, you'll never kow what kind of crap they really are.
I have driven them but never at that length; most drivers here seem to like them OK, especially the newer ones. However, once they start to get age on them I hear a few more complaints.
Where are the new orions for Grenn Lines? I stiil have not saw one yet and it was to come to 2002 and I still have not saw one so far. When they be comming?
I heard they haven't been ordered yet due to 9/11 funding problems. Plus, I don't think CNG construction has been started yet at Green depot. Now you have the whole question about what DOT is going to do about those private lines anyway. Additonally, Triboro has more junk running around than Green.
Be patient! If they do not come then that's that! Besides, Green Bus Lines do not have a CNG tank installed yet so it will be awhile. Get use to those GMC RTS-04 and 06, TMC RTS-06 and Orion 05.501 for now.
Obvious mistake is the wheels, should be dark blue. And of course, that roof is awful smooth - something very large should be up there, shouldn't it (and I don't mean the Bus-O-Rama ads)? And maybe one day, Corgi will re-cast the rear door correctly.
Also coming this year is a Bonanza MCI in the original paint, but with the small "A Coach USA Company" under the first wondow. - I have long since given up pointing out the obvious errors on the MCIs...
If that new look isn't a 6000 or 5000 series, than I don't think it has an A/C blister. Those were installed when they were Blitz-ed.
-Hank
I think it looks better with the A/C unit, but that's just my opinion.
The 4000s (43xx-45xx), the 6000s (60xx-63xx and 69xx) and the 8900s had the AC units.
is the mta bus available for sale yet? if so do you know where it can be found?
Try Diecast Direct they may have them www.diecastdirect.com
Also the fonts for the numbers on the bus seem off.
Actually, the number fonts are quite off. The ones on the actual bus were more of an antique serif font, more like what you'd see on an older locomotive.
Correct....I have done a few custom paints of NYCTA buses, and I used SOUTHERN PACIFIC diesel locomotive number decals. It isn't exact but it is very close....I think the typeface is actually called "Clarendon Condensed" or something like that.
Those decals I use are available from Micro-Scale decals -- and they do make separate alpha/numeric sets in various colors.
Sounds like a winner; usually I make my own decals, but I'd like to check those out.
I forget the set numbers, but those Micro-Scale decals can be found in almost any model railroad shop. If they don't have the SP alphabet/number sets, they surely should have some SP steam loco decals with the silver numerals. They have three sizes on that sheet and all three come in handy.
Problem with the Corgi fishbowl -- NYCTA used the same size decals for sides and front. This cannot be done on the Corgi because they made the rounded front panel a little too thin. That's where the smaller numbers come inhandy.
I think this is why the side numbers look so small on the pre-production model of the 2-tone blue bus -- they used the size that would fit on the front of the model which is too small to begin with.
That's true; also, the Sunnyside 1:64 scale friction Fishbowl has the same woe. Once you get around that, you can make a really nice model out of either one. In fact, I am currently converting the latter into a 30-foot GMC 3302A to match a newly acquired example at our museum, complete with A/C unit...I look forward to the results.
-F.
The Corgi NYCTA Fishbowl in two-tone blue is scheduled for release in MID_AUGUST. List price is $49.95 but I have already seen them available for pre-order at $39.95.
Yes, the wheels are obviously off. The side marker lights are off too. It has those that were used on second generation fishbowls (TDH-5303/4, TDH-4518/9). The photo is a bit blurred, but it appears that this bus is supposed to be number T6H-5310A #6947. Fifth Ave depot, which is where that bus operated out was actually one of the few depots that used the small radio antenna. Other than that and the rear doors which have never been right it looks pretty good. Of course we need to see the back as they often miss there as well.
Wayne
I would assume this is an early 70s MTA unit from the scheme? If so, both sets of lights on each side should be large in the rear. Corgi is usually good about that.
I can't make out the number either, but I think most people who would see the bus remember the large antenna box in the front roof. That was my point there. And they have never gotten the generation 3/4 (T5305/06/07/08/09/10 - S5303/04 and their 45xx sisters) marker lights done correctly. They just use the gen-2 lights and draw on the center light over the standee windows.
The other error with all transit Fish is the interior - all forward facing seats on platforms, with a rear door stepwell. Not even the longitudinal seats over the wheelwells. Totally wrong.
I can almost live with the bad marker lights... but that rear door is an abomination. The only Fish that Corgi can get perfectly accurate is a Gen-2 suburban (SDM5302).
[... but that rear door is an abomination. The only Fish that Corgi can get perfectly accurate is a Gen-2 suburban (SDM5302).]
I agree. I agree.
Actually, if that is supposed to be bus 6947, it would have the foward facing seats. The real 6947 was used in X service. It also had the antenna blister on the front roof. A pic of 6947 can be seen in Joe Testagrose's collection at this website under NYC Buses, Queens Section.
http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/joet/qu/ta6947.jpg
You're correct, but I think the large Blister was later swapped for the small antenna that FI used on their buses.
Wayne
Great picture! I had almost forgotten these had the antenna box pre-Blitz, but remembered seeing one on "Welcome Back, Kotter" with one in this original 1970s paint scheme. And take special notice of the fleet numbers versus those on the model....
Soemone needs to wake up Corgi to the seats for sure. In fact, weren't the Fishbowls all equipped with side-facing seats, a la the Flx New Looks of that era?
No, some were suburban, used for express runs and early transits had forward facing seats in the back half.
Peace,
ANDEE
I see; thanks Andee!
Wow, what a nice model! I am currently in the process of converting a Corgi Fishbowl into a NYCTA Flx New Look from that era, same colors; it's coming along and I hope to show photos when it's done.
-F.
We have the same kind of comments over here whenever Corgi or any reputable model maker brings out a new bus or train.
HOWEVER in my opinion and it is only my opinion surely for the price you pay you can not expect perfection.
I always think Corgi and the like make a good representation of a bus in a certain time in a certain era------I had a look at the pic and to be honest I think it captures the time and era it represents.
Please remember Corgi sell world wide and a lot of people will see this model as a good job well done.
i drove them and even though i can see the errors i too believe it is an excellent model. however these models are not available yet as per hart bus you can preorder at diecastdirect.com.the price is 47.95 plus shipping i believe.
In the past we have discussed the inaccuracies in detail on the Corgi buses. However, I think the BusTalk group generally thinks that Corgi is doing a good job. I know for myself - I'll continue to collect the Corgi buses, and I understnad that there will be inaccuracies, but I wish that they had suggestion box or something. In fact I'll check out their website and/or possibly contact them.
Wayne
Yeah, they could use a suggestion box for sure. I'd like to see more great models from Corgi. On the bright side, whatever is not available now can always be custom painted onto their existing line!
I seriously doubt that the rear doors will ever be corrected -- once those dies are made,t hey're made, and it would be VERY costly to alter them.
As Fred can attest, those of us who do custom work can always change things. And for those who do NOT do their own custom work, they can always buy it from someone who does.
You should try buying model fire trucks from Code 3 Collectibiles. Perhaps you can persuade them to produce bus models. They do a FANTASTIC job on FDNY apparatus.
-Hank
Now that would be interesting! I'd love to see them do some late-model buses...in fact, if Road Champs is finished with their Flxible Metro casting molds for good, I'd like to see Code 3 buy them up; they could do some WONDERFUL things with that model.
-F.
Very true. We're always here to help.
-F.
I agree that overall they are good quality, and as busfans, we are beggars and not choosers. Six years later, I am still overwhelmed that Corgi was bold enough to come out with a replica of the GM Fishbowl! For that, they get high marks in my book.
As for exact details, a little paint and corrective surgery would make it just right...
-F.
I'm surprised you guys just now caught that picture...I've had it for about six months now, as the model was announced in February, 2002 for AUGUST 2002 release.
The model in the photo is NOT a production model, it is a custom paint job that Corgi had done to illustrate their upcoming releases. What usually happens is that the custom painted model is sent to China and the folks over there in charge of painting the models will copy it EXACTLY. So, the mistakes you see on the one-up custom paint job will probably show up on the production runs...just like the many mistakes on the green NYCTA bus.
Corgi only has two kinds of marker light plastic castings for the GM fishbowls. You either get a 1st Generation (TDH4516/4517/5301/5302 squarish lens) or the 2nd Generation (TDH4518/4519/5303/5304). If I do a custom paint job for myself or someone else and they want a 3rd/4th Generation Fishbowl, I fill the corner marker lamp holes and make smaller ones myself. Generally, they are just small metal squares, affixed in the proper location, and painted -- like the three-lamp clusters in the center of the roof.
Be thankful that there are ANY models available. There really are NOT that many people who support the bus scale model industry, not as many as you'd think. Everyone wants...but hardly anyone buys.
And the Corgi models start off as being totally unprototypical for NYCTA as they are all NARROW -- 96-inch wide -- prototypes. Anyone knowing how to use a scale ruler can figure this out.
Very good points, Steve. And yes, widening one of these to a 102" would take a VERY steady hand...
I've been after Corgi for sometime now trying to get them to make a MaBSTOA GM Old Look to go along with the other NYC old looks, FACC, STS and MACO, I think it would be the next logical step. What do you guys think?
It would surely be interesting; I do know they did a Fifth Avenue Coach and a few others. Incidentally, I do custom painting and have an Old Look Corgi should you be interested....
If you are able to get yourself a Corgi GM 4507 old look, I can supply the decals...I have the proper font for the green "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority" lettering for the roofline!
You just have to find your own numbers.....
This is the Corgi I'm waiting for!
Very nice! On another PCC note, see SubTalk for my next posting.
-F.
This is a nice bus, but I really wish Corgi or someone produce some Flxible Model Buses from the Mid-1960's up until 1975.
Actually, the Flxible you are thinking of was produced from 1961 to 1978. And yes, someone should produce some of these. For the moment, I am currently performing "meatball surgery" on a couple of Corgi Fishbowls to produce Flx New Looks. Not an easy task, but it can be done!
Counted 10 MCIs parked at Stengel today. The numbers elude me, although my dad should remember. I think 2906 was the highest. Maaaaybe.
Are these part of the official order? Or are the drivers still being trained? How many MCIs total in the order? Isn't it about 12?
12 is correct,the numbers being 2896-2907.
So that means they will replace the Vikings. I was at Stengal a week ago, I seen MCI #2899 parked in the back. A B/O told me that one of the Vikings hit a n old woman, when in service. He said the side mirrors are too small. Are the Vikings still used?
The Vikings are not being replaced, so don't go starting that rumor. They have been o/s for a little over a week now, because not all of Stengel's bus operators are trained on them (hard to believe, I know). The 11 MCI's at Stengel are there to provide "high-occupancy" express buses on the X51, along WITH the Vikings.
More Orions to QV--505, 506, 507 and 509, 510, 511. Buses 505-507 are complete with QV logos, while 509-511 still have CS logos. Buses 508, 512 and 514 are both still at Stengel. I haven't seen 513. Looks like when all is said and done, QV will have 505-521, and very few 1985 and 1986 RTS's.
Mark
And 4327 was seen with part Hudson Depot Decals and part QV Decals on the Q32 today. 2897 was on the X51.
My question is why are the 100s and 500s heading to QV? Isn't CS short of buses on their local lines?
#4327 Q32
#509 Q46
I saw a Viking operating this AM on the X51, and in the PM I saw an MCI
Yep....I do remember the numbers....they were 2897-2906. We didn't see 2896 or 2907....they must've been shy and hiding indoors.
2896 is at CS. I've seen it parked on the outside with the others.
#2896 X51
Ok, most people dont know of the X32's existance, because it is only shown on the Queens Bus Map eventhough it goes to Bronx HS of Science. Only on school days, and offers 2 trips going and coming. But should the bus line become more then a school day line? Like b/t 6 in the morning and 8 at night it can run between Fordham and Jamaica, I bet it would be an awesome line, and a money maker too. What do you all think?
Well, it's all good but one thing.....do people have an interest in going to Fordham Plaza and beyond? The X51, X63, X64 and X68 have a purpose because they serve Manhattan. People work in Manhattan and due to Manhattan's popularity...I think that business people in general would prefer to go to Manhattan then to go to the Bronx. Besides, if the X32 was to do that well as an express route to/from the Bronx....you have to reroute it so people can get to it from the Q44/QBx1 (whenver that route will run again).
Unless the route is shifted so that it can benefit Bx22 riders in Castle Hill, Parkchester, and Morris Park who are trying to get to Pelham Pway and Fordham Plaza, I don't think that the cost of running extra service on the x32 can be justified. And even still, in this regard, the route would have to be something like the M98, so whatever highways it uses in the Bronx (which is what makes the line useful for BxHSS students residing in Queens to begin with) it would have to dump for use on the already-packed local streets.
That's more than the TA is ready to do for the route. And keep in mind that they tried once to kill the x32, and if necessary they'll try it again, especially since the Q44 now runs limited thru Queens. In this scenario it'll be very hard to convince them of the merits of the x32's existence as compared to a Q44LTD and the turning of the Bx22/Bedford Pk into a LTD operation.
Do high school bus passes work on express buses?
I don't think so. I have seen plenty of BxHSS kids pay with a regular MetroCard.
Sorry, kiddoes!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
I wonder why would they waste money for, I usually don't see high school kids as the target audience for express buses. the local buses may be slower, but they are wasting money, when they could just use their regular passes. For some kids the Q44 LIMITED can be a substitute.
-For some kids the Q44 LIMITED can be a substitute.-
It is a substitute, as the 3:25 leaving from Bedfrd pk can attest to.
-and the turning of the Bx22/Bedford Pk into a LTD operation.-
YAY!....That would help me and my friends who live in queens alot. That's a good idea, it would be just enough to kill the X32 and make the lucky bastards who take it home suffer like the rest of us.
Just my $0.02...
the lucky bastards happen to be the cream of the crop of our next generation and we should applaud nyct for providing this service not condemn it. these kids get up at 5am to travel to special schools in the other boroughs from which they live. i know.my daughter went to laguardia from si and nyct provides no such service. it was bus,ferry,and train. how many here got up at 5am to go to hs and got home at 3pm without extracurricular activities. just my 2 cents.
also they should ride free as it is not a typical x bus since i dont believe it picks up anyone else.
And who says that I'm not one of them???
The only reason I envy the kids who take the X32 is because it does not go near my house, and i'm stuck taking the Q44 at 5:30 in the morning. Just my two cents.......
-how many here got up at 5am to go to hs and got home at 3pm without extracurricular activities.-
BTW, most kids who live in queens and brooklyn and don't take the Gagnon get home at 5:30 pm
Just in case you didn't notice, you struck a hidden nerve.....
Thursday, July 11, the Long Island Rail Road Commuter Council meeting has a full agenda. One item of new business is listed as: Draft Report, "Increasing use of buses to commuter rail." The meeting is at 347 Madison, tenth floor, noon. For more info: http://www.pcac.org My general observation concerns the word "to" in the above title. In the morning, I see both bus-to-train and train-to-bus passengers here in Nassau County (many in Hicksville, fewer in Mineola, a handful in Wantagh). For years, I have observed a need for more reverse-commute trains feeding connecting buses. When Manhattan-bound trains use both tracks (thereby excluding eastbound morning service), this favors 100% the westbound workers over the eastbound.
From observation, there's a fair number of people who go train-to-bus each morning at Rockville Centre.
CG
I definately agree, LI Buses should connect with LIRR trains. The N21 usually always misses the connection with the LIRR at Great Neck, it is especially annoying on weekends when trains run hourly.
John, think about it...... If the N20/21 buses did connct all the time with LIRR trains at Great Neck, you'd have less to complain about. Now you wouldn't want to be deprived of this, would you?
Scheduling busses to meet with trains can be tricky -- especially when each are on an hourly schedule. If the bus arrives 5 minutes before the train is scheduled, does it then wait 10 minutes so that it can depart 5 minutes after the train. I'm sure those passengers who aren't connecting would be miffed to sit at the station for 10 minutes.
Then suppose you had to go through the same thing at the next LIRR station the bus came to. How much time are you willing to add into the bus schedule so that it can have meets with trains?
The best way to have trains meet busses is with the loops or feeder routes that they have in Long Beach, Freeport, RVC and Great Neck. With these, busses can be scheduled to meet trains and can wait at the station when trains are delayed -- no sense leaving empty.
I think there are certainly other towns in Nassau that could support these feeder type services -- certainly Merrick and Plainview/Hicksville. Probably Oceanside and Syosset/Woodbury also.
CG
No, I'd just have the inbound N21 connect with the LIRR at Great Neck. It would arrive 5 minutes before the train (perhaps it should be 10 owing to the terrible traffic up here). For example, an N21 FLUSHING would arrive 10 minutes before the LIRR to NYC.
Going east, the N21 would arrive 5 minutes after the E/B train departs Great Neck.
I think it is especially important for the N21, as the areas it originates (Glen Cove,Sea Cliff) have rather infrequent LIRR OB branch service, and connections to Great Neck trains would make trips to the City easier. As it is, I almost never take the LIRR from Sea Cliff. The walk is 30 minutes. The train ride is over an hour. That's 90 minutes, the bus/subway combo takes not much more than that, and it's cheaper.
This is just an example, and a suggestion. Loops are also a good idea. Actually in Great Neck they do have the N57 which operates weekdays in the AM and PM rush, for commuters from the train. This idea could work in other communities too.
Far too many people drive to LIRR stations, causing additional traffic. We need to get people to leave the car at home.
Growing up in Great Neck on the north side of town, the N58 was the bus I used to get to the station and it ran, at the time, every 30 mins. So it was never really a problem to meet up with the trains. As for the N20/21, the line is used by various communities along its route and most people that get on there don't really use it as a feeder for the LIRR lines. They either use it for commuting into Queens or in some case to continue with the subway connection into Manhattan. If the N20/21 were to become a true feeder line, it would require at least more buses to deal with the traffic demands during rush hour and to be able to meet the trains.
To schedule buses to meet trains is very hard. Every time you change the train schedule then you have to change the bus schedule.
Long Island Bus ridership is not geared to using LIRR trains. The schedule is corrdinated to meet other buses.
But something has happened in the last few years. At one time the east/west lines had the most ridership in the LI Bus system on an annual basis. These routes were the N6,N4,N20/21,N22 and N24.
Lately the north/south routes have started to overtake the east/west routes in ridership. I believe that the N40/N41 is now the #1 route in ridership having taken over that spot from the N6. Other north/south routes that have showed ridership gains are the N37,N73/N74,N1 which are north/south routes. Having lived in Baldwin for 17 years the N 37 was never coordinated with the LIRR and even after an increase in service still is not. The N 37 is coordinated to meet over bus routes at the Hempstead Transit Center the routes northern terminal.
I understand that LI Bus will be starting two new routes in January.
One from Valley Stream to Hempstead which will be basically a north south service and another route from Freeport to Rooservelt Field which will also be a north/south route.
LI Bus still has to increase its ridership base and to have a coordinated service with the LIRR is a good idea. But it will never be able to coordinate all of its routes to the LIRR
Thank You
[I understand that LI Bus will be starting two new routes in January.
One from Valley Stream to Hempstead which will be basically a north south service]
I will be interested in the routing of this new service, if it does come to pass. This may not really be a new route, as Bee Line had extended its N3 Valley Stream-Franklin Square route along Hemptsead Turnpike to Hempstead some time before MSBA took over Nassau County service. I forget whether the N3 ran to Hempstead in the very early MSBA years.
Sid,
I believe that you are correct on that. The route is to be called the N-8 and will replace the N-3 Green Acres/Franklin Square service.
The N -3 will continue to operate rush hours between Malverne and Jamaica peak direction
I belive the Freeport/Rooservelt Field will be called the N-43 and will be operated by part timers.
Thank You
In addition to the proposed Long Island Bus N-8 and N-43 routes, hourly Sunday service will begin on the crosstown N-27 route from Glen Cove in September. Most trips will go to Roosevelt Field, a few will be extended to Hempstead. This Sunday service on the N-27, long-needed, will be operated by part-timers, called LABO's (Limited Assignment Bus Operators).
Oh that is great news!!!! :-)
Barry --
Interesting information -- thanks! Do you have a publicly available source for the ridership numbers? I've been trying to get my hands on ridership stats for LIRR and LIB for years.
I agree that it is too difficult to schedule the through routes to meet trains. I do think, though, that many of the locations I listed would be reasonable candidates for loop or shuttle services to the LIRR stations.
CG
Charles,
I saw the information in Newsday when i lived in Long Island.
Newsday every Sunday had a feature devoted to transportaion either automobile or mass transit.
It was sometime in the spring of 2001
Thank You
I think it is called Dr.Conehead.
The N27 is a good example of a crowded North-South route. Unfortunately it runs only once an hour during most parts of the day, and stops after 7pm with no Sunday service.
So if you wanna go to Roosevelt Field from Glen Cove on a Sunday you have to take three buses (changing at Roslyn and Mineola).
I really wish LI Bus would improve the N27, I've written to them for years.
Gee, what a surprise ... the MTA takes over funding because Nassau County can't afford it anymore, so now LI Bus will provide more service to support LIRR then getting around Nassau County.
Mr rt__:^)
These statistics are more than 4 years stale. I just found them in my file. Average weekday ridership January-March 1998. N1 1410.. N2 380.. N3 250.. N4 6080.. N6 9830.. N14(Rockv loop) 240.. N15 6280.. N16 2510.. N17 140.. N19 1350. N20 3200.. N21 1780.. N22,22A 5510.. N23 1730.. N24 3610.. N25 1980.. N26 140.. N27 1630.. N28 130.. N31,32 4550.. N33 730.. N35 2150.. N36 640.. N37 1310.. N40,41 9200.. N45 500.. N46 430.. N47 340.. N48,49 2860.. N50 310.. N51 280.. N54 1180.. N55 840.. N57(GreatNeckLoop) 210.. N58 1000.. N62(FptLoop) 360.. N70 1560.. N71 1090.. N72 2670.. N73,74 590.. N78 660.. N79 1150.. N80,81 670.. N91(JFKFlyer) 170.. N92 110.. N93 100.. N94 120.. N95 110.
Thanks to the later report in BusTalk that N40,41 has beaten N6. Thanks for all the comments. Joe McMahon
Thanks, Joe.
Even 4 years old, that's great information.
CG
i was looking through my bus pictures yesterday and me and my brother were mentioning buses, and i showed him a ORION V suburban i took a picture of when i was going to skool in bayside queens. it was a Q30, and it was a 600 series with the suburban seats. but tell me why he tells me, i caught one of those on the Q84. im like WHAT????????????????????? he tells me a ORION V pulled up into the Q84 bus stop last thursday or friday and he tells me it pulls up with the Q84 sign! it wasnt a suburban, he tells me it was a regular 200 series!!!!!!! and not only that it runs the entire Q84 line from 153rd and archer all the way down to the 238th street island terminal(thats what i call it). anyone can explain this!!!!!!
Yes, can somebody please explain this!!!!! BIG AL, Q5Merrick, even Brooklyn67. This is your department. Was this a loan to Jamaica or what? I do remember seeing bus #173 on the Q17 back in 1994 or 1995 with CS stickers. Also, bus #1708 was also on the Q17 with CS stickers but on separate days.
Q.V. depot does in fact have 1 or 2 hard seat Orions in the 200 series I believe. Brooklyn67 would know better than me the exact numbers of them. Most likely a Q84 broke down and the only swap bus available in the area was QV's Orion. It isn't really a surprise as we've spoken about this numerous times on this board on depots swapping buses temporarily when one goes down.
In fact, one day when I was driving the Q44, my bus broke down on Main street near the Long Island Expressway. No road truck was available at the time so instead of having me wait in the bus for a couple of hours, an operator working a run called an "as assigned" pulled up to me in an Orion and told me to take his bus and he would "babysit" my bus. A dispatcher put me in place and for the rest of the trip I drove an Orion in service on the Q44. It is the only time I ever drove an Orion in service but this is a perfect example of how an Orion probably wound up on the Q84.
BIG AL
If I confused anybody about me driving the Q44, I should have mentioned a few years ago, both Jamaica depot and Casey Stengel depot shared the Q44 route with Jamaica depot driving the RTS's on the line.
As you know I worked primarily out of Jamaica depot, so at the time of the breakdown I was a Jamaica depot operator driving a Casey Stengel Orion, something you guys would find quite unusual if it was any other Jamaica depot route.
BIG AL
Thanks for explaining that one Al. You had me staring at that post for a moment. I forgot that the Q44 was split with CS & JAM for a while. I first realized this when I saw the 9500's new on the Q44 thinking that CS went back to RTS's.
What most likely happened was a Q84 bus broke down. So, instead of having passengers endure a long headway, the SLD at Jamaica Center "stole" a 200-series Orion from the Q44 (QV has no 200's) and placed it in Q84 service.
While it is unusual, it's not the first time a Stengel Orion ran in Jamaica service. Bus 579 was swapped from the Q32, after the last X63, bus 9346 (at the time it was run 11) broke down in Manhattan Imagine my shock when I actually rode #579 into Rosedale on the X63!
What can I say? S(tuff) happens...
Mark
I forgot to note that 579 ran on the X63 in October, 2001 BEFORE the MCI's took over. So please hold your questions/comments (it may be too late).
Mark
What's an "SLD"?
sld is a surface line dispatcher once known as starters in the 1950s. it is the highest civil service title of nyct surface operating employees. above that are supts. not governed by civil service.
An SLD is a Senior Line Dispatcher i believe
Thank You
Thanks again, Barry!
ulmer park mci buses have arrived and are at detroit diesel in piscataway. spotted today 2918,2920 and 2921 amongst a horde of new nyct cruisers. also spotted njt bus 8511 a contractor bus. i believe it is brand new but couldnt make out livery.
I don't have the numbers of the other two buses, but I was at Ulmer Park today and found out that five MCIs were on their way to the depot.
David
Ulmer Park got MCI #2908,2909,2910,2911,2912 today
thanks chaim. keep us informed and welcome to bustalk.
Today I saw alot of people paying their fare in cash aboard the 123 Line Bus. Only 2 People used a Ticket and there was 1 Monthly Pass User. And there was a guy on the 123 bus got a Transfer.(BTW. If you guy's like to know what bus this was. It was a Flxible Metro Suburban #3587)
1. Don't they must get a ticket before getting on?
2. Why the driver issured a transfer to the guy when he should not be doing that?
no you can pay your fare in cash,tickt or monthly pass.its boarding a Red&Tan bus in the PA that you MUST have a ticket...which of course is really ridiculous.
Having tickets makes the boarding process go a lot faster, so I think it's a pretty good idea requiring tickets for boarding. I think most companies actually require passengers to have tickets before boarding at the PA.
Inbound, fares can be paid on board, but tickets are encouraged. Tickets for most non-NJT companies can be purchased at various places in the areas that they serve. For example, DeCamp tickets can be had at many convenience stores along their routes in Bloomfield, Montclair, Verona, et al.
Now if these companies all accepted Metrocards, the tickets policy would be moot...
Njt would prefer that passengers purchased tickets prior to boarding to speed up things but it is not necessary. The 123 line is an exact fare line so if you have 2.10 then its ok. The full service lines like the 156/158/159 which I drive are not allowed to accept anything over $20. One good thing is that we can sell round trip tickets to make it easier on the passengers and ourselves.
T.Beverett
Thanks for telling me. Are they allow to give out transfers on PABT Routes?
As far as I know tranfers are supposed to be used between lines within New Jersey. I personally don't sell them to people who board in New york.
T.Beverett
Here is the picture...
If u cannot see the license plate, it's "C25832." Can anyone identify this RTS, or is there a way for me to look it up somewhere?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
Try again, getting a "this page not available" message.
Bill "Newkirk"
That's because GeoCities doesn't allow remote linking (less the stingy bastards at GC be deprived of ad revenue! ;). To view the image, go to http://www.geocities.com/rtsgallery/, scroll to the bottom of the page, and click on the link for "NovaBus #xxxx." The image of one very beat-up MTA-NYCT RTS should load.
C
Thanks for posting. Now, I'd like to know in an e-mail or on the board what the number is... so I can make the changes to the gallery page...thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
Geocities just sucks. I can NEVER get a pic to come up there!
I reposted the pic on another server.
Saw it....nice photo!
There's no WAY that's a 1999 RTS. Not in that condition!
It looks like it was headed for the paint shop...so it could very well be a 1999 RTS.
Wow...how can a bus need paint after only three years?
Look at the side destination sign
It is definitely a 1996 RTS, most likely headed for the paint shop.
BIG AL
1996? Do you mean 99, or are we on the same page?
1-9-9-6. That is the only year the Nova's came into NYCT that were not equipped with retarders. Retarder lights were on all buses from 1993 starting with the 8401 series with the exception of the 1996 series 8750-9249.
I might point out however that 8401 was not the first bus in NYCT with the retarder system. That honor goes to QV buses 8388-8396. These buses have retarders, however there was no light on the front panel or switch on the dashboard to turn them off. There is a light on the dash cluster that says "retarder" when it engages. Since the repowering, they probably have the retarder lights and switches now.
BIG AL
Where is this retarder light usually located on the bus?
Above the left headlight on the RTS.
Peace,
ANDEE
Ah...so it is external. Thanks!
Click on photo for full view.
Click on photo for full view.
Sounds like a Nova RTS perhaps in the 9xxx series. I'll have to check and see if I have it in a log of mine.
There was a site up that had some LPs but I don't think the link works anymore nor can I remember what it was.
I'll let you know if I have it or not either tomorrow or Wednesday.
#9636 M42
Here's a little clue to help you guys narrow it down. Even though this bus says Express on it, it is NOT a bus from the 9250-9349 series. How can I tell? No retarder light. The 9250-9349 series have retarder lights on the front. This can either be something from 8750-9249 series or perhaps it is possible that it could be an old bus with new style body panels installed in the rear. I've always suspected that the rear panels on the new style Novas can be swapped with the older style. Last week I saw a 9000 series Nova being test driven by the mechanics from Ulmer Park and the right rear upper panel was off and the inside configuration was exactly like that of an older RTS. You could even see the shape of the area made for the older style pork chop panels. Also, I can't see any reason whatsoever why Transit would sell off one of their newer style RTS's.
BIG AL
On the other hand, it is probably just a bus getting ready to undergo a new paint job.
BIG AL
That's true; after all, when a TA sands a bus, they believe that old paint is the best primer!
I didn't see the RTS as it wouldn't load up, but I did see this really hot brunette in an ad when I went there. Thanks for the dash of excitement! :)
No problem.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Coolie"
I think it is one of the buses in the 9100-9249 series. Reason - saw a 91xx wit C24xxx plate. However, I can't say for sure since 9049 had C49004 plate, which I think is weird. (Unless this was one of the RTSs sent to Atlanta first in 1996 and was delayed in being registered.)
Ok, so it must be anything from 9230-9249...is there a way that I can know the SPECIFIC bus number of the one shown?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Onion Bus Industries"
Ulmer Park has buses from 9077-9110. These buses do not have a retarder light or switch and the license plates alternate some starting with C258xx, but not in consecutive order. Some of them have been repainted top to bottom being 6 years old. They got them in July of 1996. 9100, 9098 and a few others just got complete exterior paint jobs
Actually, license plate is "C25732", not C25832.
Cleanairbus
You need to stop by Gun Hill Depot where the bus is being repainted. Ill see if my friend who works there can give me the #s of the current buses being repainted (no promises).
Peace,
Kevin
Ok, will do...as soon as I get beck from Poughkeepsie. Also, I do know a few folks over there. This photo was taken at least 5-6 months ago, so that bus might have been repainted already. So, there must be a way to find out what they repainted 6 months ago.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Where's My Flxible?"
If the photo is 5 or 6 months old, that bus has been long painted and on the road. Many buses have been painted since then, so if somebody in transit wants to look up the license plates and match to the bus numbers, fine. That is the only way to find out what that bus number is. Other than that, I don't know what all the hoopla is about trying to figure out which bus that is.
BIG AL
Al,
I just wanted to know what the number is, so I can place that link in its proper place in my RTS Gallery...that was all.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"No more RTS???"
I wish he would have said the photo was 5 or 6 months old to begin with cause I had my friend searching all over Gun Hill Depot last night for the bus. BTW no 9200s are being repainted there at this time.
Peace,
Kevin
transitalk.org
There used to be a LI Bus route (summers only) to Jones Beach from Jamaica called the JB24. It was discontinued awhile back, does anybody remember the exact route it took?
Thanks in advance!
If memory serves, it followed the route of the N24 from Jamaica to Roosevelt Field, then took Stewart Avenue east to Merrick Avenue down into Merrick where it would take the Meadowbrook Pkwy down to Jones Beach. This is a very fuzzy recollection from a 1970's MSBA map -- I'll see if my parents still have one the next time I'm at their house (they never throw away anything).
If memory serves, there was only 1 or 2 round trips each day.
There was also a JB80 or JB81 which followed the N80/81 route and also some others (JB22?)
CG
What's going on here? Where is the media coverage on a work stoppage that affects over 100,000 people a day? It almost seems that these buses never existed - like BLX is in a haze induced by mind altering chemicals! Hello to Flx - thanks for responding regarding corporate America's lack of need for mass transit. BLX feels the vibes and incorporates the postings of the transit purists that share our thoughts - are some of our brothers (and sisters??) only interested in bus numbers, bus assignments, etc. and cannot look at the big picture! The future of mass transit. Or will everyone in the next millennium all have their own giant SUV that seats 20 persons? BLX sends peace and love to all involved. Keep up the fight, and bring service to where the people will be, not where they were.
Thats what I am saying!! What happened? Like you said, it is almost like the private lines never existed! Now there is no more media coverage...nothing...like nobody cares! I am sick of having to take the local bus and subway to Manhattan everyday....I WANT MY EXPRESS BUS BACK!!! QM1A....where are you???????
I wrote a letter to Mayor Wimpberg...and I go a stupid generic response. He does not care about Queens...and I stated clearly that he does not have my vote in the next election. And to anyone who agrees that he should not get involved, I do not want to hear your comments...the city owns the crappy CNG Orions that they have...the city owns the Depot...the city should get involved...PERIOD!!! Enough is enough already...how long must this drag on until someone gives a damn?? I have had it!
however long it takes,it could take the rest of the year who knows.we may not like it,i sure as hell dont but we the public cant do anything except sit back and wait and depend on Green Bus Lines,Command Bus Co. and MTA buses and subway.btw,there ARE Green Lines and CommandBuses that are express that go to Manhattan,give them a try,wouldnt hurt.
Well if I lived near a Green Bus Line route or Command route I would...but I dont so I cant.
Have you considered the following alternatives:
At Queens Boulevard and 78th Avenue (one block west of Union Turnpike), there are several express buses that go to Manhattan:
The QM18 (a Green Bus Lines Route) crosses 34th Street with stops at 3rd, Park and 5th Avenues before heading uptown on 6th Avenue with stops similar to the 6th Avenue QM1/QM1A. Serrvice is during peak hours in the peak direction only.
The X63 and X64 (a NYCT Bus route out of Jamaica Depot) head up Third Avenue with similar stops to the QM1/QM1A on Third Avenue. Should you need to get to the Financial District, you can use your Metrocard transfer to the X25 which leaves from opposite of Grand Central Terminal every half hour on the half hour from 7AM to 9:30 AM. The X63 & X64 then turn west on 57th Street with stops at Third, Lexington and Park Avenues before turning south on Fifth Avenue heading to 23rd Street, ultimately ending at 23rd Street and First Avenue.
The X68 (a NYCT Bus route out of Queens Village Depot) has three variations on it's routes, so it's important to read the destination signs. Buses marked "23 Street, VIA 57 Street", follow the route of the X63/64 above. Buses marked "Midtown" turn west on 42nd Street at Third Avenue with stops at Third and Vanderbilt/Madison Avenue before turning north on Madison Avenue to 57th Street, with the last stop being Third Avenue and 57 Street. Buses marked "23 Street VIA 34 Street" crosses 34th Street with stops at 3rd and Park Avenues before heading downtown on Fifth Avenue to 23rd Street and First Avenue.
At Main Street and Horace Harding Boulevard (L.I.E. Westbound service road), one could catch the X51 (a NYCT Bus route out of Casey Stengel Depot) to Manhattan, which crosses 34th Street, heads up Sixth Avenue to 57th Street, ending at Third Avenue and 57th Street. This route also has the added benefit of running from 6AM to 10AM as well as from 3:30 PM to 9PM to Queens.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Thanks Mark....I appreciate you posting all the different alternatives. To tell you the truth...ever since the strike started I have been looking at alternatives but they all seem like they would make my commute much longer.
If I wanted to catch the X51 into Manhattan, I would have to take the Q88 from about Francis Lewis Blvd and 73rd ave.(I dont want to give my exact location..lol) all the way to Main Street and Horace Harding. Same thing if I wanted to catch one of the other express buses...like the X68,etc. I would have to take the Q46 down to Queens Blvd. It just seems like my commute would be longer. As it is...it takes me about 1 hour and 15 minutes to get door to door taking the Q75/Q17 to Jamaica and then taking the F to Manhattan.
It is just really a pain. When you are used to having something, it is hard to have to change.
I hear ya on that one! When I have to work late, I wind up taking the X51 to the Q17 which will take me to Hillside Avenue. Since you're starting at roughly 73rd & Franny Lew, why not take the the Q75/Q17 to Hillside & 188 and grab the X68 from there? Does the Q76 run by you? If it does, you can take that down FLB to Hillside and catch the X68 there also. The X68 does have numerous stops along Hillside Avenue that provide transfer points to local routes.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Yeah, here are the stops on Hillside Av WEST of Francis Lewis Blvd:
188th St
179th St
173rd St
166th St (Merrick Blvd)
78th Av/Queens Blvd and then Manhattan.
I took the X68 to Manhattan back in 1996 because I was marching in the 1996 Yankee parade. I got off at 2nd Av and E 57th St (Last stop..it pays to be nice to the bus driver, LOL!)> It was a 45 minute trip, maybe les than that, like 35 minutes.
Wimpberg should be impeached for lack of governing. The city needs somebody who can govern, not just sit in his office chair and smoke a cigar.
The attitude of the Wimpberg admin, especially after what happened on Sept.11th, is especially bad for the city.
Wimpberg doesn't give a damn about NYC. And people will remember that on election day.
Yeah the media seems to care jack squat about people in Queens. I think it is because a large portion of the population affected are immigrants. Just like after Sept.11th, the lousy way Chinatown was treated, locked out and shut down, and they are just starting to be heard.
Yesterday in Flushing I saw very long lines for the Q58, Q17, and Q27. It is very unfair what these riders endure, and the City is more or less saying "screw you" to riders and DOT drivers.
Mayor Bloomberg has proven he's just like most of the corporate elite, an anal retentive, selfish and greedy man.
Unfortunately, guess who owns the media. More rich, greedy corporate robots, and they aint gonna be sympathetic.
Considering how multi-cultural NYC is, think about what's on TV and radio and who they gear to, and you'll realize that it's the suburban white in the SUV that gets the attention. Coverage of mass transit is poor compared to traffic jams on WINS and WCBS. It's a major gripe of mine. Don't even get me started!!!
(I better stop myself now)
Dude...get your facts straight. It has nothing to do with immigrants or non-immigrants. My area is middle to upper-middle class. If you want to see SUV's and BMW's, Mercedes, etc...you can come to my area. Its called being screwed cause you live in a residential area and not what Bloomberg considers "the city". To a person like Bloomberg...eastern queens is nothing more than a residential area that provides no real income for the city...so in his opinion...screw them.
You should really watch what you say...from what I have seen...you have offended many people on here already. I dont think it is correct that you turn this into a "status" issue. F Y I....Chinatown was not on lockdown...lower Manhattan was....from 14th street down. Check out some of the real estate down there....im sure you would not be able to afford some of it!
Well maybe I got a little loud, and I'm sorry, I'm just so freakin mad this strike is going on, and it seems nobody in charge wants to do anything about it. Yes, the express buses from QS do serve some wealthier areas, like Bayside, Fresh Meadows, and Kew Gardens Hills. But there are large areas without ANY bus service, Jackson Heights, East Elmhurst area where all the routes are either Queens Surface or Triboro. These are generally working class areas. I've rode on the Q66 route, and it was always very crowded. That's alot of people without bus service. They either have to walk 10-15 blocks to the 7 train, or take a cab. And cabs are not an option for people in the poorer areas who are hurt the most by this strike. It is a fact the poor always suffer the most, whether in disaster or transit suspensions.
As far as Chinatown goes, it was PART of the lockdown. But unlike businesses in other areas, many of these thrive on short term profits, so when the cash flow is interrupted, alot of people lose their businesses or have to let workers go. Many have still not gotten aid.
It's this ambivilance, towards working class immigrants, as well as those who live in the outer fringes of the City (like in Eastern Queens) that has got me so riled up. And we mustn't forget all the QS,Triboro, and Jamaica bus line drivers who are probably without pay and suffering because of the strike. They just want a fair deal.
Unfortunately Mr.Wimpberg forgot about the working class.
The union has been trying to turn up the heat to get Mike interested in coming to the barging table (rally at City Hall with many politians part of it).
Riders can help too by writing the Mayor or newspapers ... saw three letters to Daily News published yesterday.
And yes where are their Brothers in Local 100 and at the ATU ? Mostly that's up to Roger T. to seek their support. My point is that the union needs to bring this to conclusion somehow because the members on the picket line have lost more then the issues they went out for.
Mr rt__:^)
I would be curious to know how much longer the bus companies themselves can last before they have to go out of business. If they aren't providing service the City could make an argument that they no longer need the subsidies. Maybe this is what Mayor Mikey has in mind (he is a businessman after all).
As to the drivers/mechanics I am sure almost all are feeling the financial pinch but maybe they now will realize their actions have consequences. And they have to accept responsibility for this.
Allan,
It is a good question how long the private companies can last with the strike. In 1979 when Pioneer, Green Bus and Carey Transportation where all on strike at the same time Pioneer went out of business,Green stayed in business and Carey was later sold and then went out of business.
True things were different. Of the three companies on strike today none of them own any buses. The only real assets of the companies are their contracts with the City and Triboro and Jamaica own their depots.
Since the owners have a guarnteed profit base they are not making any money but then again they are still spending money. There is staff of all companies who are working and still have to be paid, i am sure that they have extra security to protect the buses from vanderlism( Please note that i am not saying that the union is doing anything illegal but management still has the obligation to make sure the buses are not damaged since they are owned by the City)
How long can the owners hold out. Since the Cooper family has other holdings other than bus companies they may be able to hold out longer
than the Queens Surfice ownership which may not have other holdings.
Only time will tell
Thank You
We'll still be here next week.
The CNG's draw so much battery juice for the safety stuff that we have to start them up frequently so that when the boys & girls come back we'll have a fleet to put back on the road.
Notice I said WHEN not IF.
It's been three weeks, right? How many of them need grocery money about now?
-Hank
One of the solutions to the Queens bus mess that's been bandied about is a regional bus authority, which would take of the NYCT bus lines and those on Long Island and Westchester. What do you think about this?
One one hand, I'm suspicious of the state seeking ways of transferring money out of NYC to more affluent and influential suburban counties. The state is getting some heat about the higher level of subsidy to people outside the city, and for transit anyway, this would be a good way to bury it.
On the other hand, a regional authority could run some useful routes across city borders, without bothering to make sure, as suburban lines do, that no one who isn't a resident can use them outside the jurisdiction.
Probably the main obstacle to establishing a Regional Bus Authority is trying to figure out how to resolve the seniority issue for the workers affected. According to the Civil Service Laws anyone who is a Civil Service employee is senior to anyone who is not. So theoretically someone who is a driver for NYCTA with one year of service is senior to a driver in MaBSTOA and the Private Lines who has 20 years of service. Obviously this wouldn't sit too well with the MaBSTOA and Private Lines employees and rightly so.
The MTA has allowed this hodgepodge of a bus system with it's different authorities, companies and artificial differences to go on for too long. A monster has been created and allowed to grow and now the MTA doesn't know how to knock it down to size and bring it all under one umbrella. Without the MTA offering some kind of incentive and the various unions offering some kind of concessions, I don't believe we'll see a Regional Bus Authority anytime in the immediate future.
Could you imagine the backlash against County Exec Andrew Spano and the powers that be in White Plains if transit service in Westchester fell under a regional agency instead of under Westchester's control? You can bet your bottom dollar that it would be a cold day in hell before Westchester ever agrees to become part of a regional bus authority. Ditto for Suffolk County.
Nassau County is indirectly part of MTA through Long Island Bus (though, judging by the attitudes of past administrations - "Gulotta the Glutton" and the GOP machine in particular - and by the many posts complaining about LI Bus - that's not really saying much).
I came to NY this weekend to dance Argentine Tango. During the day I took my nostalgia trips. On Friday, I went to Riis Park and Coney Island. I took the 2 to Flatbush Avenueand the Q35 to Riis Park.
The driver left me off at the park. After I walked around, I wanted to take the bus to Kings Plaza to catch the B3 to Nostrand Avenue to catch the B36. Guess what? No bus stop signs at Riis Park. The bus stop for buses to the 116th Street subway station is NOT the same stop as buses for the Flatbush Avenue stop.
Green Bus Lines should put up some signs to people can catch their bus without having to run after it.
Michael
Washington, DC
Funny story - because I experienced it back in high school. The bus stop is located on B169 St off of Broad Channel Dr. Its a dead end street and its the terminal for the Q22.
[Green Bus Lines should put up some signs to people can catch their bus without having to run after it.]
Except that Green Bus Lines is not a city agency. A bus stop is technically a parking regulation, and thus falls under NYCDOT.
Argentine Tango? Tell me more about this. Is that an actual dance form, or a slang term for finding a bus stop?
Argentine tango is an actual dance. It's a very seductive dance where legs wraparound legs, chests melt into chests, and you dance cheek to cheek.
Even though I've lived on the island before moving to Washington, I only came back to see my family, when they lived at Seaford. All my family have left the city so I stopped coming to the city. Now that I dance tango, I come whenever I can. If you're interested, the best web page is www.newyorktango.com
Michael Ditkoff
Dreamed of moving back to New York after retirement, until he read the real estate section of "The New York Times."
Wow...what a neat dance....sounds intriguing. I'd like to learn more about it; I will check out the link.
And I don't blame you about the real estate...LOL! I have a friend here in town who lived on the Lower East Side of Manhattan and Queens, and he told me a basic 2BR apartment in NYC was $1500 a month without utilities*. This was back around 1996, so surely it must have gone up since then!
*Meanwhile, the same place here in Roanoke was $350/mo. with heat and water included.
And I thought I had a great deal on a 2bed/1.5 ba in Atlanta for $540
You do. I pay $850 for 1br 1ba.
-Hank
Hank, where are you located?
Staten Island
-Hank
Hmm...does property rent for more or less there than it does in Manhattan or Queens, or is it about the same?
I'll say less, but not by much.
-Hank
I see. Well, the figure you gave still doesn't sound too bad!
-F.
That's actually not bad; that's close to what an upper mid-range apartment here would go for now. The $350 apartment I described earlier was a low-rent unit which is now around $380 or $390/mo.
And if you're in Atlanta, that's really good; I would assume the cost of living was a lot higher down there!
-F.
I am happy to report that the signs at Hudson/Chambers and Hudson/
Harrison have been removed. Hopefully the bus will not be seen again
on Hudson south of Harrison...
[I am happy to report that the signs at Hudson/Chambers and Hudson/
Harrison have been removed.]
Yes, but the northbound M20 sign on Chambers Street, at the far side of West Street, is still there. (It's around the corner from the "true" M20 stop on West at Chambers.)
Greetings to all, I'd like to know where the term "Beakie" originated from. I had a "Beakie" ride my bus the other day.
its a undercover TA supervisior. in Subways they are undercover T.S.S train service supervisors. what beakies do on buses and trains is watch train crews or bus operators to make sure they do the job correctly, this means for bus operators, if u know they are there, KEEP UR BAR UP, DONT USE THE BACKDOOR TO HOLD U AT A REDLIGHT TO RELAX YOUR FOOT, AND DO NOT USE NEXT BUS PLEASE AS A NOT IN SERVICE. they catch u and can pull u outta service! i know some operators caught by them.
Two points:
1- The TA can no longer take you out of service for 19-A violations or road infractions. A violation must be issued, and the course of due process followed. Judge Michael Berman of the United States Federal District Court approved a joint TWU/ATU agreement with management in February. Since then, the TA must write a DAN (disciplinary action notice) where you have the right to arbitration.
2- He knows what a Beakie is. He asked the origin of the designation. I honestly have no idea. It's a term that's been in use since the early 60's. I'd also be interested to know.
Thank you both, I'm glad that the courts approved the TWU/ATU agreement, otherwise I'd be selling pencils on Fordham Rd.
Hey, Orlando, wanna hop on the Bx12 and see some of yo' coworkers with them artics? lol
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"WeWantNABIs"
No thank you......... The Bx17 is just fine for this pick... BTW, I had an Orion on Sunday and Yesterday........Peace
The term I believe orginates from a man in the early days of New York called Mr Beakerman. Apparently he did not like transit service and on his own with helpers transit workers were reported for infractions in thier day to day operations. However since he was not a transit manager for supervisor the allegations and charges could not stand.
Im sure Im missing some part of the story but it;s something to this effect. Maybe our nieghbors in Subtalk may know better.
Has the auction of the retired 1977 Hampton Roads Flxibles occurred yet? I was interested in acquiring one, and made the necessary phone calls (only to get voice mail), and haven't heard anything about this auction yet. I had originally heard June 8th as an auction date, but was told that it was postponed.
Anyone know anything more?
I know they had an auction sometime last year; in that one, a mix of 1973 and 1977 Flx New Looks were sold. Perhaps they were re-auctioning vehicles that weren't picked up? Let me know if you hear anything as I am interested as well. As a bonus, the 77s are retrofitted with power steering.
Also, they have a fleet of 1991 Flx Metros; not sure if they will retire them at 12 years, but there's always the possibility. This is yet another TA that is going from Flxible to Gillig with new orders.
Another bit of Virginia TA info: Blacksburg Transit retired its RTS buses a couple months ago when an order of New Flyers came in. I'm not sure if the RTSes have been auctioned off yet, but if anyone is interested in one you may be able to contact them to find out. Go to www.btransit.org.
Thanks,
I did find out about this auction from Bruce Korusek. Included was a link to a Yahoo photo album with pics of the buses. Fleet numbers included 658 and 666 and about 4 others. I'll have to see if I can find the email with the link to the bus photos so you can see for yourself.
I look forward to the link when you find it; how is Bruce? I have not talked to him in a while. Also, does he still have the ex-GRTC Flx New Looks and Metros in service at the VOT?
This is what I believe will be the Brooklyn Bus route assignment for all 5 Brooklyn depots for September 8, 2002.
Jackie Gleason Depot:B8,9,11,16,23,35,43,51,61,63,65,67,68,69,70,71,75,77.
Ulmer Park Depot:B1,3,4,36,64,74,X25,27,28,29,37,38.
Flatbush Depot:B2,31,41,44,46,47,49.
Fresh Pond,B13,20(split),24,26,38,39,48,52,54,57,Q54,55,58,59.
East New York Depot:B7,12,14,15,17,20(split),25,42,45,60,82,83,Q24,56.
Can anyone confirm this.
Well, I can confirm one thing? You actually contributed someting without asking a question...LOL!
Where is the B-37? There's nothing under Gleason and under Ulmer Park I see a #37 after the "X" designations.
What happened to the the B6? NO more???
Aren't the B2 and the B31 going to Ulmer Park?
No
The B-2 and B-31 were to go to Ulmer Park if Flatbush was to become an articulated depot but i understand that is no longer going to happen
Thank You
articulates are not coming to flatbush any time soon
They're not coming here, either.
-Hank
Corrected Depot assignments
EAST NEW YORK-B7,B12,B14,B15,B17,B20(SPLIT FRESH POND),Q24,B25,B42,B45,Q56,B60,B82,B83
JACKIE GLEASON-B8,B9,B11,B16,B23,B35,B37,B43,B51,B61,B63,B65,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B6(SPLIT ULMER PARK RUSH HOURS ONLY),B31,B39(MIDNIGHTS ONLY),B41,B44,B46,B47,B49
ULMER PARK-B1,B3,B6(EXCEPT SOME PEAK HOUR RUSH SERVICE),X25,X27/37,X28/38,X29,B36,B64,B74, F LINE SHUTTLE
FRESH POND-B13,B20(SPLIT ENY),B24,B26,B38,B39(SOME MIDNIGHT SERVICE FROM FLATBUSH),B52,B54,Q54,Q55,B57,Q58,Q59
NOTES:
1-B-6 rush hour service to/from Nostrand Ave from Rockaway Parkway or Ralph Ave is operated from Flatbush Depot
2-B-39 has no hawk run. Service is provided by B-46 and Q-54 hawk runs
3-B-20 split East New York has approx 6 or 8 runs weekdays only
between Van Sindren Ave and Stanley Ave GMF.Balance of route is operated from Fresh Pond
4- x-25 tied in with the x-27/37 or x-29 routes
Thank You
you missed the b4 again. thats still comning from ulmer park,right?
Yes...B4 is still in Ulmer Park. X25 is attached to X29 ONLY, as it has been for some time now.
In addition:
QSHUT (shuttle bus replacement for Q train between Brighton Beach and Stillwell Avenue, rush hours only): Jackie Gleason AM, Ulmer Park PM
David
Let me get this right. No bus service at all between Stillwell and Brighton Beach during the non commision hours?
Not quite...the B68 route is being extended to Stillwell & Surf Avenues and will operate in both directions 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The additional "QSHUT" service will operate in one direction, rush hours only.
David
My bad. Leave it to a Queens guy to make a boo boo on the route of the B68! I forgot that the B68 makes a turn at the intersection at Brighton Beach & Coney Island Aves., right at Brighton Beach station. For some reason, which I don't quite understand, I thought the B68 crossed Brighton Beach Ave. at Ocean Pkwy. I now realize I was wrong once I checked a Brooklyn bus map on the MTA web site. I am ashamed to say that the last time I rode the route it had fishbowls! So the B68 will be able to easily handle customers during the non rush periods between Brighton and Stillwell, especially once the public gets used to the changes. It will be hell during the 2003 beach season for CI visitors however, once they find out the hard way that the W will be the only train going down there, but we'll beat that to death on SubTalk next year! The TA is making a nice gesture in providing the extra bus shuttle service during the rush, very useful if there is a delay in B68 service.
I couldn't find the B-68 anywhere. Will that still be a Gleason assignment?
Yes. The B-68 will continue to run out of Jackie Gleason Depot. For those who don't know, the route will be extended to Stillwell Terminal.
David
I don't see the B48 anywhere. Will it still be out of Fresh Pond? Strange how the 43 is out of Gleason and the 48 out of Fresh Pond, considering they both terminate one end at Prospect Park station and the other end not too far from each other in Greenpoint.
B48 is and will be out of Fresh Pond.
David
My thanks to David and Howard on the routes that i left out
They are correct
B4 remains in Ulmer Park
B48 remains in Fresh Pond
B68 remains in Jackie Gleason
and as per David
The Q Shuttle-AM Jackie Gleason PM Ulmer Park
Thank You
PS-My apologies about the errors
NP Barry, you did a good jb posting these to begin with. We should be thanking you. So, thanks!
Thanks for your good wishes
Barry
I don't believe the B37 is going to Ulmer Park one bit, or the B38 going there either.
X37 and X38 are in Ulmer Park. They're midtown-only variations of X27 and X28. B37 and B38 are staying right where they are (Jackie Gleason and Fresh Pond, respectively).
David
Forgot to add that on.
Can anyone give me the exact roster for Yukon's local bus fleet? I know that they received the 469 and 470 from AMS, but did they get anything else? Is the 4011 still there?
I believe they have 468 also.
The Yukon Depot fleet is currently 363 buses strong. Here they are:
1985 RTS: 4011, 4148. (2)
1986 RTS: 4463, 4524. (2)
1987 RTS: 4892-4897. (6)
1990 RTS: 8293-8315. (23)
1993 OrionV: 120-121, 123-137, 139-141. (20)
1995 OrionV: 468-470. (3)
1999 OrionV: 6327-6349. (23)
1998 102DL3: 1860-1904, 1906-1989. (129)
1999 102DL3: 2080-2139. (60)
2000 D4500: 2705-2754. (50)
2001 D4500: 2140-2164. (25)
2001 D4501: 2805-2824. (20)
I hope this helps.
Mark
Thank you Q5Merrick, you're "da" best went it comes to making those rosters.
BTW, what happened to the 3920? It already got sent away?
-
Jay
What's the difference between a 4500 and a 4501?
-Hank
I believe it has to do with the structure of the bus. D4500 and D4501 are different models. Just that one is updated. The "TOR-nado" would know more about this question.
The 45 stands for a 45-foot long coach, and the 00 or 01 stands for the model year.
Mark
That hasn;t been my experience. They started delivering the MCIs in 1998. Those were D4500s.
-Hank
4500 are the first type of buses.
4501 are ones that have had changes - like the sliding door for the W/C rather than an opening door.
You are incorrect!
There is no difference between the MCI 102-DL3 and MCI D4500 Series. The Changes that caused the number to go to D4501 was NOT the wheelchair, the changes were minor and are not very visible to the naked eye!
1) The Flat Panel Rear Sign
2) The New Multiplex Wiring System
3) The Choice of LED Lights
4) The Dashboard (al la Nova Stlye with LED Backlight)
and a few other things.
The Wheelchair door, sliding version was changed back in the D4500 Series.
Other than those small changes named above, its the EXACT same bus! The point of the numbering aspect to MCI Coaches are
Example: D = Series, 35/40/45 = Size, 01 = Series NOT Year as previously thought
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Clean Fuel Technologies Worst Nemisis
For those of you wondering what the Flxes look like in Blacksburg that I talk about so much, check out the following link that I found:
http://rajanparadkar.8m.com/burrusbus.html
I will try to get a full-length pic when I can, but this gives you a basic idea of what the bus and paint scheme look like at BT.
-Fred
I'm just letting you know.
This is what I believe the Staten Island bus route assignment will be for both Yukon & Castleton Depots for September 8, 2002.
Yukon Depot:S55/56,S61/91,S79,X1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,15,17/19,21/22,31.
Castleton Depot:S40/90,42,44,46/96,48/98,51/81,52,53/93,54,57,59,60,62,66/67,74/84,76,78,X10/11,12/42,13,14,16,18,20,30.
Can anyone confirm this.
This i did see this morning. Orion V #179 operating on the M30 route(this bus is from MCH)-yet i know for a fact that the M30 is a Quill route-whats the deal. Also, anyone concerned that the Viking buses are not in service? Well, they are. I saw #997 on 6th Avenue this morning on the X51. it's run is 0451. Just thought i let you guys know.
M30-Orion V #179
X51-#997 Viking
While the M30 is based at Quill, it has at least one extra from Hale.
had 2 runs from Hale. I did see #6356(Orion VI) and a Orion V on 57th Street toward 8th Avenue on the M30 route-guess they have more. But if the M30 is a Quill route, why did i see a run with this on the Quill M30 this morning andf yestrday(X1)?
Wasn't 997 the Viking with all the problems?
TWU 100 Workers where on srtike and in front of Queens Borough Hall today. Don't know why there doing there but they tie up Traffic all the way to Main St! This caused delays up to 4 Minutes on the Q60 and QM18 Lines. Once passed there traffic was not a problem
Wow...
Ironic really, considering the chaos they cause whenever they strike.
Alas, another bus strike thread....
Everyone is b!tching to put Bloomy at center stage for this situation, but what about Pataki? If the MTA and Bloomy are planning talks for the MTA's takeover, where's Pataki when you need him?
And what about Helen Marshall? The boro pres apparently has talked a word, according to my knowledge and my guess is that Shulman didn't either.
On the 2002 MCIs 2805-2824 (at Yukon), the rear route sign is like all the other buses in the fleet (MCIs, RTSs, Orions, Flyers), where it sticks out a little.
On 2825-up, the rear route sign is flat with only a piece of plastic covering it. Is there some reason for the change? Also, water seems it can easily get in now.
How many MCI buses are used out of Yukon Depot during the am & pm rush hours & how many are left behind.
why dont you call the yukon yard sld and ask him. i dont see how this would concern anyone other than nyct management.
Why do you want to know how many buses are left behind? Are you planning something? Even if I knew, I wouldn't tell you.
BIG AL
Hello to everyone! Is there anyone out there who knows where I can obtain an old New York City Transit Authority "TA" Patch? I have a few people searching already with no luck, I even have the MTA/NYCTA Government Relations Department looking! Nice folks over there in the Brooklyn MTA Office! :^) I've been after the old "TA" patch probably since before I got out of High School,(24 years ago) when my intrests in New York and other transit agencies came into being! I live in the Midwest, near Chicago, so you wouldn't really find that sort of thing around these parts! So, I thought I might try a different approach in this manner! There may even be a few people who are (out of their kindness)still looking for me who regularly read this great webpage for men & women who just love trains and buses! And a few of them are MTA Bus Operators or Motormen/Women of the NYCTA! My collection will be complete with this patch as I already have the "M" and newer "MTA" style patch! Can you help?
Train #144-The Downtown Local
These old ta patches used to be sold at the NYC Transit Museum. It's under renovation now, but they have a retail outlet in Manhattan. That might be a start. Anyone know a tel # for the Transit Museum?? The old ta patches were put out to pasture in the 70's. However, some employees who wore big hard to stock sizes might have gotten a uniform with the old patch even into the early 80's. Also, there are people that go around the depots and train crew rooms to sell goods like watches, MTA caps, sweatshirts, badge holders, etc. Some of them sell patches too. There was a b/o from Fresh Pond that sold stuff, Jerry, he had a good collection of various patches. I think he's retired. Don't give up, they are out there. BLX sends peace and love to all the great people in the midwest. Remember, the transit dream lives on within the minds and hearts of transit purists that inhabit the great cycle of life!
First of all, I want to thank you, BLX (and a number of others out there) for your assistance in helping me to locate a "TA" patch. It's funny...that everytime I used to watch the movie, "The Taking Of Pelham 123" I used to see that Conductor and the Line Instructor in those uniforms with that patch...and I just wanted one! I just love the New York City Transit System, either Subway or Surface! My first collectable of the NYCTA was a "M" Large Bus Decal that was sent from a woman (who must have been in Government Relations)who is now deceased. I was in the 8th Grade then; I was shocked when my mother told me that something was on my bed that came in the mail when I got home from school! :^) I even wanted to move to NY after high school to at least make a go to work for them! Well, didn't work out that way...neither did my attempts at trying to get a job with the CTA! Again, my thanks to you, and the Operators Of The Manhattan & Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority who did lend an assist. Now, if I can get my hands on an "M" Baseball cap....
William Christopher Mitchell-Train #144/Local Downtown
Gary, Indiana
wow i got rid of about 5 shirts that had the old TA patch on them. i should have taken the patches off.
I noticed that on RTS buses the front doors fly open and close when the B/O pushes or pulls on the door handle. However, on Orions, the panel doors seem to take forever to open and close. (The accordion doors open and close rather quickly.) Why does it take so long for the panel doors to open and close?
Michael
Washington, DC
Orions seem to have alot of back door problems. I find it much, much easier to exit via the rear door on an RTS. The doors on the Orions seem to have little air assistance so you have to push hard.
Also on the NJT RTS's the doors in the back slide open, which is even better.
Again praise NJT for not buying the rolling boxes of crap (Orions).
I'm talking about the front doors, NOT the back doors.
I always liked the doors on the RTS; also, I have noticed panel doors take longer than the accordion doors, which drop back more quickly.
-F.
Depends on how the door engine (the device above the door that opens/shuts it) is set. They CAN be adjusted.
The front doors open at all different speeds on the RTS's. The older 3000 and 4000's seems to open faster than the 8000's and up. The speed of the doors are regulated by a valve located over the doors on the inside which adjusts the air pressure that goes to them. The higher the pressure, the faster the doors open and closes. The same principle applies to the windshield wipers. I've written up many doors that open either too fast of too slow. Maintainence merely adjusts the valve accordingly. Alot of the time the valve goes bad and sticks, which causes a delay, sometimes a long one, from the time the handle is pushed and the doors open or close.
BIG AL
I remember one ride on a 1983(?) RTS that had such slow doors that the B/O turned the lever before beginning to slow for the stop.
Yow...now that's slow. Good thinking ahead though!
-F.
The quickest front doors I ever saw were on the MBTA's AM General buses in Boston. I never rode any other AMG's, so I don't know if that was a defining characteristic of these buses. The doors on the T's Flxible New Looks were responsive too. The GMC New Looks varied - the 1979-80 GM Canada buses were quick, but I recall many of the older buses from the 1960's having slower doors.
I know this discussion started about front doors ... but I just have to say how much I dislike the RTS rear plug-type doors. Talk about slow. GMC should've just made the NYC-style push doors standard after 1981 - they could be air-operated for TA's who don't use the customer-assist doors (like Boston).
Jim D.
>>>...but I just have to say how much I dislike the RTS rear plug-type doors.<<<
I don't like them too much either, but they are more
aesthetically(sp?) pleasing.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yes, quite so. They match the bus well.
The doors on our restored Grumman 870 have some speed woes. Sometimes they will not open at first, and suddenly...THWACK! They clap open very dangerously. I hear hissing air during this sequence and assume it is a leak? Or could it be a bad cam?
-F.
This morning at about 11:15 am I spotted 3862 being towed through the Lincoln Tunnel and up rte 495. I guess its done with revenue service for the MTA.
T.Beverett
evidently headed for nimco. i used to operate it and its fellow 3800s out of yukon. 3862 has been in storage since the arrival of the mcis in 1998. for the record yukon had 3800-3864 at that time.
I thought Yukon had buses #3800-3861 and buses #3898-3899? Castleton had buses #3862-3885! 100th St (Michael J. Quill) had buses #3886-3897.
at one time that may have been possible.
Thanks for the info.
T.Beverett
Has the MTA been selling a lot of the retired RTS-04's to other agencies? I know some went to RIPTA, and 2 weeks ago I've even seen around 10 of them sitting in the CAT (Cumberland-Dauphin-Harrisburg Transit Authority) lot, I thought I was seeing things for a moment!!
Per the UTC web site:
Cumberland-Dauphin Harrisburg TA (d/b/a Capital Area Transit) purchased 1810, 1846, 3415, 3420, 3429, 3569, 3688, 3811, 3829, 3856, 3920, 4003, and 4103 from NYC Transit. This is rather interesting since CAT has supposedly decided to go with smaller buses (they purchased 21 single door 30-ft ElDorados last year).
Fort Worth Transp. Authority recently bought 1688, 1691, 1692, 1693, 1734, 1834, 1835, 3842, and 3968.
Kinda says something about how durable the RTS buses were during their stint at NYC Transit.
I can say i drove RTS #4003 "94 95 96 ENY
I can say i drove RTS #4003 "94 95 96 ENY
RIPTA has the sister 40xx unit #4034, as well as about a dozen other 4000-4400 series RTS-04s. Still running strong and looking good, and distinguable from the rest of RIPTA's RTS fleet by their untinted windows and emergency lights on the signboard.
Chris
3020 was a good bus with its last service at yukon. i drove it several times in 01. 3842 and some of the others were at yukon in 1998. 3842 was distinguishable by the recaro drivers seat which i loved. this ta got the cream of the crop. where will these buses be running?
i meant 3920 of course.
Wouldn't it be great if MTA were making us think that all of these RTSs are being retired, but in reality, they were headed for a holding lot in New Jersey to wait to be reactivated once the Orion VIIs have a mass failure?
I guess the good news is that NIMCO tends to let intact buses hang around for a good long while before they shred 'em. Maybe MTA will be looking to buy some of its RTSs back - they'll sure need some kind of quick replacement when we have hundreds of overwhelmingly problematic Orion VIIs attempting to hold down service.
Why don't they hold on to a few of them just in case? Wouldn't they anticipate this sort of thing, especially with so much trouble from the VIIs?
Aren't the buses still in service that the Orion VII's will be replacing?
I believe Atlanta will be receiving Orion VII's before NYC. If this bus has all of these supposed problems and craps out on MARTA (and I doubt that it will), NYC could always defer their deliveries and keep the old buses running.
And if the worst case scenario comes to pass, the TA could simply take a page from its history and bring in second-hand buses from other operators instead of trying to revive their old junkers from a Jersey scrapyard.
Jim D.
I'm not sure; as far as I know the RTSes due to be replaced with VIIs are still in service. Others here may have the info you need...sorry I can't be much help.
-F.
Saw an ad for the above cracker and it featured a young man running after a bus.
Has anyone seen it? What kind of bus was used? It seemed boxy and possibly an AM General. Couldn't catch the number but it had a blue stripe. Actually a light blue not the navy blue of the NYCTA.
I seem to recall this commercial; I think it was an AM General. I'd have to see it again to be sure.
-F.
The transit authority of River County, Kentucky. I've never seen so many Gillig Advantages. They also have a few Flxibles left. I think 6 years ago they have a bunch of RTSs, but i'm not sure. Anyway, what do you guys know about TARC?
I'd like to learn more. For example, how old are the Flxibles, and how long will they be keeping them?
The correct name of the agency is Transit Authority of River City, and is based in Louisville, Ky.
TARC stands for Transit Authority of River City. I guess that's a formal nickname for Louisville.
Their current fixed-route fleet consists of Gillig Advantages and Flxible Metros. Here is a list of their Flxible Metro purchaes:
• (52) - 1987 Metro A 40102-6-1
• (62) - 1989 Metro B 40102-6-1
• 800-837 - 1994 Metro D 40102-4-1
All of the above buses were delivered with w/c lifts. I am not sure about the fleet numbers of the older Metros nor do I have any info as to how many are still active; I would imagine that all of the 94s and at least some of the 89s are still around.
To my knowledge, TARC started with 40-foot Gillig Advantages, and currently has several batches of all lengths - including the 29-foot model. Right now, they probably have about 150+ in total.
TARC also had some Grumman-Flxible 870s until about 1997. As for their RTSs, they were 1982 40x102 models numbering 57. They were slowly phased out beginning in 1997 and the last ones were retired in early 2001.
TARC has numerous small buses, including Orion IIs, for lesser used services such as their late-night subscription service.
What is that late night subscription service about. I saw one "night owl" bus operating. It was the 451, I believe.
Subscription service...what is that? Is that similar to paratransit?
Transportation Securiity Administration...
Does this replace the FAA, the FRA, the FHA and the DOT or do they merely supplement it?
Peace,
ANDEE
Anyone know if any company will be doing bus models this year in ho scale? I mean, we have the corgi models which look very good, but does anyone know what else is comnig out(like if there are plans to do a 1:64 scale Grumman ?)
I'm not sure about the big companies, but as you know, I have done some HO scale Gilligs. Currently I plan to make some HO scale New Flyer LFs and possibly a NABI.
I wish there was a 1:64 scale Grumman out there but unfortunately there is not; who knows, I may scratch-build one some day!
-Fred
I thought that American Precision Models was supposed to be coming out with a Fishbowl. Anyone got any news ?
Yes, they WERE going to come out with a GM fishbowl. BUT -- they apparently had a disagreement with the diemaker and the project is off indefinitely. They never did put it on their website, but I have been in contact with someone pretty close to the company and they are a VERY reliable source.
So, for all of you holding your breath waiting for APM's GM fishbowl, let it go, and start breathing again.
we can always hope it happens-or wish that the same company that came out with the 1:64 scale Friction Fishbowl and the 1:64 scale Friction RTS Bus comes out with A Grumman Friction or Orion(just a wishful thinking, but you never know)
I'd love to see either one, especially the Grumman. So far, the only one bigger than HO scale is the 1:43 scale Flxible Metro D resin model that was made as a kit in limited quantities. Not sure of the manufacturer, but they were available through Royal Coach either unbuilt for $125 or built and trimmed in various major TA colors (i.e. NJT, etc.) for $225.
I converted mine quite successfully into a 35-foot Grumman 870 this past winter and painted it to match the restored Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) example at our museum. Everyone there was overwhelmed at how much it looks like the real thing, and it is a crowning jewel in my collection.
I bought mine in 1998; does anyone know if they are still out there and available at Royal Coach?
-F.
Ah, poop! I was looking forward to that one.
Oh well...we still have the friction version that is close to 1/64 scale; that is a nice one to play with. You should see the one I built in CAT (Las Vegas colors) with correct bus wheels and tandems, along with a scratchbuilt A/C unit at the rear. Came out sharp!
-F.
Yes they are, supposedly. We all waited through 2001, when is was supposed to be released by APM, and we are still waiting. Model companies are like that; they run into many delays after announcing a new mold. I hope it comes out soon though.
There are already NABI models out there. Only problem is...TRY and get one!
Santa Monica (CA) "Big Blue Bus" had 2,000 made (that number sound familiar, Orion fans???) by an unknown manufacturer and they were stamped out in the SMBBB ugly periwinkle blue and had the black windows and white "Big Blue Bus" lettering stamped on with something impervious to denatured alcohol, oven cleaner, etc. I had to use 400-wet/dry sandpaper to get the overly thick lettering off the ones I did.
The models were NOT made by Jimson as far as I can tell -- totally different (much better) looking wheels and tires, the underbody was screwed into the main body by three screws. Much unlike Jimson (maker of the RTS's, many MCI models, etc.) who usually just glues the bottom into the top. They came only in a plastic bag that was stamped "Made in China"...no box, no other identification.
E-mailing to Santa Monica Big Blue Bus got NO reply. Writing a snail-mail letter got a reply, that they didn't want to divulge the source of the models (nice people, eh?)
Then I found out you could go to their offices and buy the models for five bucks apiece. Did that back in April, and they had SIX of them left. I grabbed all six. And just to thank Santa Monica for being so nice about helping obtain some from the manufacturer (phhhhhhhhhhffffft!!), I repainted five of them into Orange County TA colors!!! (The model represents ONLY the SMBBB and OCTA buses LNG-fueled with the hump in the rear that houses the LNG tanks.)
The details on the NABI 40LFW's are wrong. The front headlamps/turn signals are not far enough out to the corners. The rear door should be centered between the window sets; it is almost right up against the rear window set, with a huge panel between the exit door and the window panel to the front of it. Hatches are all wrong on both sides. And the rear end is TOTALLY wrong -- they put four sets of taillamps on and there should be only three. They eliminated the large grille in the upper rear end and put in an oblong and a square hatch on either side. The hump for the LNG tanks is too large front-to-rear. The a/c unit is not large enough or squarish enough. The front destination sign is too small. (The SMBBB buses and the OCTA 2200/2300 series are EXACTLY alike except for the exterior paint job.)
the big bus(the blue one) you are referring to i have-bought it off ebay(would sell it for the right price)-the NABI id love to see apicture of.
I'd love to see the Big Blue version. Any plans for customizing, or are you keeping it as-is?
I think I saw that one; it looked pretty good to me. The one I plan to make will be the 416 high floor, a la the ones that have become the new darlings of Baltimore MTA since the Flxibles ceased to be. I can't wait to see what one will look like in their colors!
-F.
definatley send me the picture of the flyer or NABI when done-you might have a buyer
Absolutely. :) I hoped you would be interested.
-F.
I don't personally care about a Grumman, since I already have a few of the Road Champs Flxible Metros. If someone were to mass produce accurate bus models, how about something more common like a squareback 04/06 RTS, an Orion V or a New Flyer low-floor. Or (dare I dream) a Flxible New Look. Something we could paint in lots of different schemes.
Jim
Go on the street and get the cheap Blitz and Rts models from the Chinese stores and see if u can fix em up .
Where can you find the RTS models? I know they are far from accurate, but I'd love to paint a couple of them for my son.
Jim
There a little bigger than the road champs . Made in China . Looks soso. Some gift,newspaper stores have em for about 3 to 4 bucks . thier in nyc bus colors and ones with a brown stripe with titanic advertisement on side and a M logo on rear
oh plus there pull back friction with rubber wheels
You could also get the Jimson-manufactured RTS "bus banks;" they're somewhat larger (close to O scale) and are sold by various vendors, including WMATA, for around fifteen bucks. The wheels and detailing suck, but the basic body shell is reasonably accurate and would lend itself to superdetailing if you have parts on hand.
C
Exactly. A great model potential. In fact, I have two available.
-F.
Occasionally they show up on eBay; other than that I am not sure. Unilke their Fishbowl siblings, they are very hard to come by and usually command a higher price. Great custom potential, though.
-F.
About 3 months ago I stopped in Train World (or is it Trainland?) in Lynbrook, NY to see if they had any Corgis on sale (I'm looking for a particular old look).
They had those Chinese new looks for $5.00 a piece. I believe they have a website. Don't know if they're listed on the site or if they still have any in stock....if not on listed on the site, perhaps they'll answer an e-mail.
I won't be stopping there until 7/26. Perhaps if Fishbowl 2525 sees this he could stop in there since he lives in the area.
Thank you, Hart Bus. It is actually TrainLand on Sunrise Highway in Lynbrook (just down the road from the Lynbrook Train Station). I'm anxious to inquire about that new MaBSToA fishbowl, and if you let me know which Old Look model you were interested in, I could ask about that as well.
Also, I've bought those Chinese fishbowls for $2.00 apiece at a flea market. Somehow, I can't see paying more than that.
Yes, but you can really turn out some nice models with those if you give them the right details and a little surgery. :)
I'd like to see those as well; as far as the RTS 04/06, the Jimson plastic banks (about 1:43 scale) are a nice blank canvas, especially if you retrofit them with better wheels. Also, I would LOVE to see a mass-produced Flxible New Look nodel...I'd be all over it.
Currently I am converting Corgi Fishbowls into Flx New Loosk, and the first one is almost done and went successfully.
-F.
Yesterday, I rode on 1872 on X15. When the bus began to rattle, especially on the Gowanus, the farebox (1672) started beeping and was in BYPASS mode. The operator didn't put it in Bypass, it just started and was making the noise when coins were placed in the farebox when there was no coins at all.
Tonight, I had 1963 on the X15. As we are beginning the dropoffs on SI, the driver does his normal routine and opens the door, and then closes it, stepping on the brake to disengage the interlock. Well, after stepping on the brake, the door doesn't close. I believe it stays open until the next time when the operator presses the brake. This is the first time I have seen this.
I have been doing some thinking, and was wondering about opinions on expanded express bus service on the weekends on SI.
As you all know, the X1 & X10 run 7 days a week.
On Saturdays, the only other express running is the X17.
I propose that on Saturdays, the X22 be implemented for service with a bus every hour or so(schedule similar to X17), so to serve the people of the South Shore. It WOULD NOT run through NJ, but rather via Brooklyn and Manhattan.
On Sunday, I propose implementing the X17, with a lighter schedule than Saturday's. Also, expand from current terminus, along Woodrow to Bloomigdale and then via the X22 route to Tottenville. It will serve the South Shore well.
The Destination sign would read
X17 HUGUENOT
TOTTENVILLE
x17 via WOODROW
via BLOOMNGDLE
What does everyone think?
If they wanted to extend the 17 to Tottenville, they wouldn't have created the 22. There isn't much ridership on the weekend trips that already run, so there's no nee to expand the service that is already underutilized. I took the x17 on a Saturday once, I was the only passenger.
-Hank
Depends on time of day - sometimes it is packed - especially in the morning.
the only expansion rumor i have heard(and have been hearing for a long time so far) is that the X1 is to operate 24/7-so far thats a rumor-unless anyone can confirm or deny it.
It's been rumored for years. Currently, I think there is a three-hour gap in the service weekday nights.
-Hank
How can it be empty? Ok maybe on the Last 2 X17 Trips can be but I been on the X17 2 Times to/from SI Mall. Going southbound on the 10 AM Trip to Arden Hights there where Me and 5 Others where on that trip. Alot of them where going south of SI Mall and 1 guy got off at the stop after Victory Blvd.
Going back around 2 PM to Midtown. There was about 31 People on the X17 after the last stop in SI. Alot of Pickups in SI where along Marsh Ave,Richmond Hill Road,And Richmond Ave. And this was on a satuarday so Ridership Is not that bad but reasonable tokeep it at every hour
I would say I like this plan but they should keep the X22 via NJ. And there should add a few Midday X22 Trips as well
The New Jersey Transit Section in TransiTALK is now open.....ENJOY!
www.transitalk.org
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Nice job Trevor! You and your fellow photograpers have some creative angles of NJt buses.
T.Beverett
it seems the 4000's at yukon are being retired. they are all on the side and havent been in service in a while. 4524, and the 4800's are there.
does this work?
Does any one have any further info about this privates strike? Also if CS is losing orions #505-521 what will be their replacements? I heard Artics are supposed to be going to CS. Does anyone else know whats going on for sure? A friend of mine that works at CS told me he had to wait for a bus 10 minutes to get his bus from a relief in a row yesterday and the day before. It sounds like CS is short on buses. they were already short to begin with..... Thanks to any one who responds.
The Mayor was willing to provide a ROOM for the parties to meet in, now it seems that he might have someone from his staff attend.
Today's incident at Queensboro Plaza may be good or bad for his interest in resolving the strike.
What happened at Queensboro plaza?
As Gary Colemn used to say on Diff'rent Strokes - 'What you talking 'bout Willis?
I was over there this morning, and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.
Well, guys it was on the news & everything ... the boys who are on strike took a little walk over there & tied up traffic for a while until the cops showed up.
Did they have a depot yet? Uhh....strange question, I know.
http://www.oasisnyc.com
A link to this place was posted over at Subtalk. You can see AMAZING aerial photos of any borough in NYC, and you can zoom in very close without losing clarity. The photos were taken in 1996.
Anyway, I headed over to 28th Ave. and Ulmer St. It looked like 28th Ave. wasn't even a road west of Ulmer St., and there were buses parked vertically right in the "road"! Is this how QS used to do things?
Some other interesting things I noticed:
-a pond where the Multiplex Cinemas and Toys-R-Us are now
-NOTHING on 20th Ave. had been built yet. The Waldbaums was there, but that's it. You can see that the land had been cleared for the Staples, which I guess was next
-The NY Times building hadn't been built yet. But if you zoom in, you can see they were just starting to build the entrance roads for the trucks off of Linden Pl.
-37th Ave. and 39th Ave. in Flushing went OPPOSITE ways back in '96. They're still one-way streets now, but they go in the opposite direction now. Whaddya know! They REVERSED FLUSHING. I also noticed cars parked vertically on 37th Ave., instead of the common parallel parking that's now used
-My dad's car isn't parked in his driveway, but that may be because he lived in Vegas in '96 ;-)
I've lived in that very area all my life, so are quite aware of all the changes you've mentioned. For starters, 28th Avenue was only cut through from College Point Boulevard to Ulmer Street back around 1996 or '97. Before that, the only access to the QS garage was from the Boulevard, or through a manned gate at Ulmer & 28th. In fact, Ulmer Street was built north from the expressway service road to 25th Avenue & 130th Street back in '87. Before that, the Q25 had to use narrow, potholed, floodprone Linden Place to get in and out of College Point. Linden has since been closed off to traffic (and heavily overgrown), but is popular with mini-bikers and car thieves wishing to dump their booty after stripping.
Where the multiplex and Toys-R-Us currently are was Adventurers' Inn amusement park, which closed in 1976. Its video arcade and fast-food restaurant lasted till they burnt down in 1992. During the intervening sixteen years, the old rides sat there and rusted. The arcade only lasted that long because of legal disputes concerning the land. I remember seeing smoke from that direction while driving home past Shea Stadium and figuring it had to be the arcade. It was. To this day, they speculate the fire was intentionally set by realtors.
Between the fire and the 1999 opening of the theatre and toy store, the pond you mention sat there attracting mosquitos. Locals were treated to endless City Council hearings and proposals on what would be built there. Swampy ground, a high water table and politics delayed any construction.
The Waldbaums on 20th Avenue was the first commercial concern to open, back in '94. In anticipation of all the development, a beloved miniature golf/aero slide/gaming arcade complex was bulldozed in 1980, and 20th Avenue widened in 1982. The postal facility and several office buildings just west of the expressway came up in the late eighties. But the Target, Price Club and other businesses didn't fully open till '99. The Q20A brought new service to 20th Avenue soon after, reviving weekend TA bus service to College Point for the first time since its ancestor, the Q20 was cut back to M-F back in '88 or '89(?). The Q76 was similarly extended from its Whitestone terminus to serve the 20th Avenue corridor.
We heard the constuction of the Times plant right across the expressway from us all through summer '94. That land had been occupied by a NYC car pound, which since moved west to directly south of the QS garage. Some of the driveways serving the plant from the expressway and Linden Place had been a parking lot for Adventurers' and a popular departure point for camp buses.
Downtown, 37th and 39th Avenues were reversed to accomodate changes in turnaround routing for the Q13, 16 and 28 which turn off Union onto 37th, left on 138th and right on 39th to layover west of Union. They then pick up and head north on Union to their outbound routes. Passengers use the Lipmann Arcade to get to Roosevelt and the new subway entrance with the usually-broken escalators. Before that, those buses would discharge, layover and pick up on Roosevelt between Main and Union, and then make a much larger outbound loop on Main and Northern on their way to Bayside. The Q14 still retains its original routing whereby it discharges on Roosevelt, runs empty onto Main and picks up between 39th and 38th, the same location as the Q20 and 44, which come straight up Main Street from Jamaica.
For some, the inconvenience of having to walk from the subway all the way to their bus at Union & 39th is offset by the time savings of the bus avoiding the very congested old turnaround route as described above. Of course, if you're transfering to the 13, 16 or 28 from another route whose closest stop is on Main Street (QBX1, 17, N20, N21, 25, 27, 34, 48, 58, 65 or 66), it's a very long walk requiring one to cross Main, Roosevelt or both- not to mention having to negotiate some extremely crowded sidewalks.
Thank you for introducing me to oasis.nyc.com! I had been using Mapquest for aerial views, but these are much, much closer and clearer. That they're dated doesn't matter to me a bit.
Howard, I didn't see any reference to Flushing Airport in your post.
Some of the structures are still there. The Goodrich air ship used to dock there.
Also QSC had another facility on Steinway Street for Steinway Transit & an old trolley barn at Northern & 54th ... the "Waiting Room" & Clock tower is a Pizza Hut ... there's a mall where the barn used to be.
Mr rt__:^)
Howard, do you live in Mitchell Gardens???
Sho'nuff. Thank you getting the co-op's name correct. There are three separate co-ops in the area: Mitchell Gardens, Linden Hill and Linden Towers, all built in the fifties. The local library and post office adopted the name "Mitchell Linden", which the whole neighborhood has come to be known as. QS co-signs that designation (with Clearview, another postwar co-op complex in Whitestone whose name has similarly bled into the adjoining neighborhood, a la Fresh Meadows) on its QM1A express. Many people and real-estate listings erroneously label all the co-ops collectively at "Mitchell Linden".
I should know, because I live in Linden Towers. The Devon building.
I can't believe how many amusement centers/mini-golf courses have been knocked down to make way for stores. It's a shame.
I was born in '85, and I lived on Parsons Blvd. and 35th Ave. until June '94, when I moved to Las Vegas. I had been on Linden Place by the expressway many times. Usually, my family and I were driving home from visiting my grandmother upstate. We'd get off at Exit 14 from the southbound Whitestone Expwy. I remember that junk yard well. There was a school bus parked by the service road for a very long time in there. The name on that bus was "Logan Bus."
I don't remember when Linden Pl. closed, but I think I went through there once for twice before it did. I think I also remember the first time we visited NY, tried to go up Linden, and we were surprised to be rerouted onto 28th Ave.
Sadly, I don't remember anything on the "Adventurers' Inn" land before 1992. But it sounds like a really cool place. My mom told me she used to go there all the time.
I don't remember when 37th and 39th Aves. were reversed either, but I go through Flushing every day taking buses to school, so I know the bus routes well. After 9-11, the 109th Precinct closed Union St. between 37th Ave. and 39th Ave., so the Q20A/B and Q44 (southbound routes) had to turn right onto Northern, and then left onto Main, and then they made a stop in front of the old church. I actually enjoyed this little detour, because I had to transfer to the Q17, and it dropped me off one block away. Plus, I didn't have to bother crossing Main at Roosevelt.
I'm back in NY now, so it's fun learning about the good ol' days from when I was too young to remember.
"I don't remember when 37th and 39th Aves. were reversed either, but I go through Flushing every day taking buses to school, so I know the bus routes well. After 9-11, the 109th Precinct closed Union St. between 37th Ave. and 39th Ave., so the Q20A/B and Q44 (southbound routes) had to turn right onto Northern, and then left onto Main, and then they made a stop in front of the old church. I actually enjoyed this little detour, because I had to transfer to the Q17, and it dropped me off one block away. Plus, I didn't have to bother crossing Main at Roosevelt."
The routing you describe had been the way the Q44 went to Jamaica- west on Northern, left on Main- from at least WWII through '99 and the inception of the Q20A/B. The rerouting- using Roosevelt to get from Union to Main- was ostensibly to serve the new easterly subway entrances, and to free up curb space on the west side of Main between 39th and Roosevelt for Q27 pick-ups. This eliminated the circituous route the outbound 27 had to make make- pick-up on Roosevelt between Main and Prince; left on Prince; left on 40th Road; right on Main; immediate left on Kissena.
Unfortunately, Jamaica-bound 20s and 44s now must make a difficult left from Roosevelt onto Main.
For several weeks after September 11, the pre-'99 routing was revived because, as you stated, Union Street was blocked off in front of the 109th precinct house.
Thanks. Now that I think about it, while Union St. was closed, the Q13, Q14, Q16, and Q28 continued to use Union St. The 13, 16, and 28 made their usual roundabout around the parking lot to their normal pick-up, drop-off areas. The Q14 followed that same route, but it then turned right onto Union off of 39th and right onto Roosevelt to drop off in its usual spot. Obviously, the 14 couldn't make the same Main St. detour as the 20 and 44 because the 14 ends and must pick up on the other side of Main St.
But after the 13, 16, and 28 picked up passengers, where did it go after that? Were those three buses allowed to turn left onto Union St., even when it was closed? If not, where did they go?
Yesterday at about 1:30pm I saw TA bus #2710 in NJ. I know that they come to NJ for mantence work in Lodi(I was a B/O before). This bus that I saw was on Route 9 down in South Amboy, at about mile marker 128. This bus was way to far down south, to be heading to Lodi for repairs. They alway go thought the Turnpike north to route 17 north. Dose anyone have any insite as to were this bus might have been going and coming from, or was it just the driver made a wrong turn somewere.
Robert
It may have been on its way to the Detroit Diesel Facility in Piscattaway, That is where the MTA MCI's go, the MCI's never go to Lodi!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"Diesel Rules"
driver probably lost or whatever. i wont go into whatever here. yukon bus heading for piscataway are supposed to take outerbridge to 440 to 287 exit 7 . its right there very hard to get lost.
Saw this bus yesterday at around 4:45 at Parsons Blvd. and Archer Ave. Couldn't tell what run it was doing because the rear luminator sign was not working properly. It's nice to see an RTS with the original gothic style numbering and New York City Transit Authority logo. Does anyone know why this bus and #3818 were never done over? Thanks.
It's QV 3906 and the rear sign has been busted for a while...it reads "IIIII"....3976 has the numbering the same way as well.
who knows why
Sorry, my mistake. But I know 3818 is definitely a Jamaica bus. Kinda sorry Jamaica doesn't have any of the refurbished 7000's. One morning, I'd love to ride one on the Q5.
Believe me. You're not missing anything.
BIG AL
Wednesday UP got four more MCI #2914,2915,2916,2917 [not yet on 2913] so far they didn't yet go into service, but they got their radios and fareboxes.
anybody here know if all the allotment of queens mci buses have been delivered?
And another four more on Friday for UP. 2918,2919,2920,2921
hey guys, just wondering if you guys know, what does RTS stand for again?
Rapid Transit Series
-Hank
For the MTA that's the biggest joke since the Orion 7.
The MTA's RTS fleet should have its own designation, STS = Slow Transit Series. There is nothing Rapid about the MTA.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I can attest that there is nothing rapid about the RTS's with the Series 50 engines. Why QV had to louse up the 8300 series with those God-awful series 50's....
Those decisions are made by the Chief Maintenance Officer and his staff, not at the depot level. All of NYCT's 1990 RTSs (8000-8396) are being retrofitted with the Series 50 engine.
David
EEP! Were these originally 6v92s?
Yes. I can understand the new ones having those engines, but why repower perfectly good 6V92's? I doubt the series 50 spews out that much fewer pollutants and they rattle and shake like crazy.
The Series 50 engines ARE much cleaner than the 6V-92s, especially with the new ultra-low-sulfur fuel NYCT is now using. However, the decision was politically based, not operationally based -- it was a response to activists who complained about pollutants coming from the buses and demanded that something be done NOW (they really wanted CNG, but this is what they got -- evidence is mounting that they're better off with the repowered buses than with CNG, anyway, from the perspectives of operating cost, maintenance requirements, and levels of certain pollutants, but BusTalkers already discussed this a while back on another thread so I won't go on).
David
I know...they really are rolling vibrators with that Series 50. Long live the 6V92!
Amen. The buses we have here in regular service are all Gilligs, but with three different powertrains. Here they are in order of my preference:
(1) DD 6V92TA/Allison V731
(2) Cummins ISL/Voith
(3) DD Series 50/Allison 5-sp.
The Series 50 is at the bottom of my list because I don't like the sound, and due to the thin gears in their transmissions, they have been the most troublesome buses on the whole fleet. You usually see at least one at Western Branch Diesel (our local DD service center) per week.
-F.
Aren't all Gilligs T-drive buses? V731 should be a V-drive transmission.....
Back to RTS.....are all new RTS equipped with ZF HP590 transmission. Any other transmission used like Voith D864.3 or Allison B400R?
Series 50 sounds perfect on a NABI 416 or Orion V bus with B400R.
Stephen
In that case, I meant T731 et al. So the "V" stands for drive type...gotcha. Also, I believe the 1999-up Orion Vs in DC use Series 50s. We had a couple of them down here in Roanoke for loaners when bids for new buses came up in 2000.
You got that right - that includes the subway these days.
Wayne
STS? Then you'd have a Cadillac Seville...LOL!
-F.
...and that excellent Northstar under the hood that STS is definitely rapid.
Wayne
Ah yes....wouldn't it be nice if Northstars could be converted to diesel. We have a 3302 "Baby Fishbowl" in our museum that is equipped with an 8.2L engine that is basically a Cadillac Eldorado 500 CID converted to diesel. Sounds NOTHING like a Caddy, but boy does it haul!
Yes, I remember that engine. Do you know how much horsepower it has in your Baby fishbowl. I remember it's last days in the Eldorado when it was grossly underpowered. I think it only had about 205 HP.
Wayne
Wayne, I'm not sure but I think it's in the 300s somewhere...possibly around 335. It's got lots of torque, especially in that little bus.
Also, I know what you mean; it's astonishing how little the larger engines put out towards the end, as compression ratios and such dropped while emissions equipment increases as the Seventies progressed. I have a friend who owns a 1974 Dodge Dart with a 318 V8, and hs says it was only rated at 145 HP...just a mere 30 more than the standard Slant Six engine offered that same year.
Rolling Ton Of S**t is what RTS haters call them!
i saw 3 or 4 queens village rts's at yukon today. they were all 3900's. dont know if they are gonna be put or service at yukon or not, they were all by the shop. also saw 2270 being towed away today. if anyone has any info on this, please let me know.
if theyre in the shop there definitely being readied for service. in the summer pick yukon has little need for rts buses due to school closed schedules. most sit on track 5 and 6 waiting for the first day of the fall pick when most of them of couse wont start.
Would anyone know what was the name of Manhattanville Depot before it was rebuilt?. I'm asking because I have several paper transfers from the 1980's the transfer for the M4 has "OTT-4" on the upper left hand corner, other transfers for the Bronx lines have "Col", and "Wal" in the same place, I take it that they signify Coliseum and Walnut.
Thanks.........
132nd Street depot.
One Three Two - OTT, as plain as the nose on my face..Thanks
Also, on buses from 132nd Street depot back in the 70's, on the old fare boxes the letters "OTS" were displayed. Ah, the good old days, when fare boxes sounded like fare boxes!!
such memories. on august 20,1979 i began my career at 132 st depot. it was at that time the schoolroom for both the ta and oa.
And did you hit the lever on the old fare boxes, even when there was no money, just to hear the "rhythm" of the machine? It seemed that a lot of B/O's did that.
I remember that, I always enjoyed that sound.
Today I was riding downtown on one of our main roads, the same one (Melrose Ave.) on the same route (81/82) where the truck went around the bus and T-boned a Volvo at an intersection last week because they were too impatient to wait a bus to safely let off its passengers.
As a former rider in a late-model Dodge Intrepid passed in the other lane, she sticks her head outside the window cartoon-style, and proceeds to stick out her tongue at the passing bus, so as to say "HA-HA...I'm driving now and I don't NEED your stupid bus anymore!".
The luxury of driving a car is all very fine, but do people have to act like idiots and diss transit when they no longer need it for themselves? What an immature gesture!
-F.
Was driving by Wisconsin and Western this afternoon and noticed major police activity in front of Mazza Gallerie/Chevy Chase Pavilion. The block had been closed off and there were major traffic tieups -- the 30-36 buses were being detoured over to River Road to get around the mess. Got home, looked it up on the Internet, and appears someone put a pipe bomb in somebody's car.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61584-2002Jul12.html
Drove by again at around 4:45 and the street was just reopening.
C
Well, today I rode around the TARC (Transit Authority of River County) today. This sytem is just crawling with Gillig advantages. I only saw 3 Flxibles today, all of them wrapped. TARC seems to have a 3 digit fleet number system ,except for this one bus, 2012, which is on the schedules (I actually rode it today-it seemed different from the other ones). Anyway, I rode the 2 to Downtown Louisville, learning the hard way to remember to ask for the transfer BEFORE boarding. BUt ,no probably, the fare is just 75 cents.
This was my first actual ride on an Advantage-they basically have no leg room in the low floor section. The windows are really high for the low part of the bus. The bottom the the window was at my eye level- I had to crane my neck to look out of the window! This Advantages had Cummins engines, and were really fast, like a New Flyer, I would suppose-or, like an El Dorado Transmark RE.
TARC give out a free newspaper like SEPTA does-this one is called the Courier-Journal. The seats had a cool design with the TARC logo, like DART had their logo on the seats. Unfortunately, there was no voice announcement system.
I saw a 1989(?) Flxible on the 18-Preston St Line-number 709. Also, on the 29 I saw a Flxible D-812. So, anyway, let's see. TARC seems to have somewhat nice drivers. They kneel the buses more often than I have ever seen. However, they only stop at stops, and if you aren't there, liek one man who was crossing the street trying to flag down a bus, it won't stop. But, it is still decent.
Well, advantages are better than Phantoms in my opinion. TARC 3 seems to be the paratransit system here. Well, until next time, Bus Fans.
Also, TARC seems to be somewhat wise with their destination signs, because the advantages all had one level of writing, instead of the bi level signs of others. I wonder what kind of desintation signs they use?
Newsday reported that the Garden City officials gave a thumbs down for the mall's continuing effort to expand the mall. The reason for the thumbs down was that more mall space would increase air pollution and put more of a strain on local arteries that serve the mall. If the owners would have worked with Nassau County when they started the project years ago, they could of thought about improved bus and train service to the mall. Instead, the move was to increase parking lot space with no thought to the increase in traffic.
That's not it.
Roosevelt Field steals traffic (the folks the shop & buy) from Garden City. Several of the big stores have closed up shop in Garden City because folks are shopping somewhere else.
I need to know when the NYCT New Looks Flixbles #9xxx to 93xx very last bus ran & what line & depots? Also had NYCT New Looks Flixbles ever used electronic metrocard farebox?
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
If memory serves, NYCT's last operating Flxible was 9178, which ran out of Ulmer Park. It was retired circa 1992, which is before the current fareboxes were in use -- the fareboxes at the time were electronic, however.
David
I do recall seeing a New Look with a MeroCard Farebox. I was thinking it was the Flxible New Look but I could be wrong
You sure it was Ulmer Park and not Yukon or Castleton, last stand of just about everything in the fleet?
I don't have a clear memory of the dissappearance of the 7xxx and 9xxx series, but I do know that the 5xxx series Blitz rebuilds lived out their lives running out of Yukon on the s55/56 until fall 1993.
-Hank
Not all of the "Blitzes" finished out their days on Staten Island. The last "Blitz" in service, 5227, finished its career assigned to Jackie Gleason Depot in 1995, and is now there as a museum bus.
David
5227 is now at flatbush depot covered with a "sheet". also the last 9000`s flexes were last seen in the bronx. ulmer park to my knowledge (20 YRS driving) never had a flex in service. gleason ran blitzes till the last 8500 was deliverd there in the summer of 94(baseball strike summer)
Didn't realize 5227 had been moved to Flatbush; thanks for the update. Was it a trade for 6259? :-)
5227 was held at Gleason for a ceremony (which I attended) honoring the end of non-wheelchair lift-equipped NYCT bus service. It ran into late 1994, possibly early 1995, and the ceremony was held in early 1995.
While Ulmer Park was never known for Flxibles, 9178 definitely ran there for a short time at the end of its service life.
David
Ulmer Park was never known for having Flxible NEW LOOKS. The depot had Grumman Flxible 870s.
David
i beg to differ. i drove there from 11/80-12/87 and we did see a few. as a matter of fact a 5700 from queens was shipped there. i followed it with my bus on the b6 one day. they were rare but never say never.also 15 9000 series ran there along with 15 7500 series in the 70s.
Perhaps I should clarify my clarification :-)
Ulmer Park was never known for running Flxible New Looks. That doesn't mean it never happened, just that there weren't a whole bunch of them at any one time, as "hudson" just reported.
David
Ulmer Park was the first Depot that I was assigned to. I did line training there in the Fall of 1990 and drove there for most of 1991. There were a handful of Flxible New Looks assigned there during that time. The last time I drove a Flxible New Look was in March of 1991 on the B36 line. I was sorry to see them go.
In the mid 70's, I remember Ulmer Park having a bunch of 7500 series Flxibles, if I'm not mistaken.
That is completely wrong. The last Flxible newlook was retired in August 1994. However, I do not believe there is any record as too which bus it actually was.
The current fareboxes in use were installed late 1995 or early 1996 but at first did not take the metrocard. They only took coins as the metrocard slot was boarded up. The metrocard slot was opened up and made available for use when metrocards first went on the market July 4th, 1996, which was the birth of the so-called "intermodal transfers".
BIG AL
Well, I guess memory DOESN'T serve, then :-) I really should have looked at my slides. I've got photos of Flxibles 9276 and 9098 (with museum GMC 9098!) at Gun Hill Depot on March 20, 1993.
I wasn't COMPLETELY wrong, though. NYC Transit's first electronic fareboxes went into service in 1986 (at the same time the "bulls eye" token was introduced), and were replaced by the present boxes around the time "Big Al" said they were. Intermodal transfers via MetroCard took effect July 4, 1997 (per the MTA 1997 annual report), not 1996, though, by which time MetroCards had been available for over two years (remember, installation of MetroCard-accepting turnstiles in the subway system and the infrastructure to power and oversee them was done in stages).
David
the first electronic fareboxes were the gfi ones. they actually had a slide on top which was never used. it was to be the farebox of the future. they never panned out. i actually saw one being tested by someone swiping a card just like at the turnstiles.
Those were the ones. I had a test subway AFC card in the 1980s but never tried it on a bus.
David
i remember seeing #9178 operating out of Ulmer Park-it was one of the last ones in service in brooklyn i think.
Ulmer Park did indeed have some 7500 and 9000 Flxible new looks. When these buses were put in service in the late 1970's the TA had a policy of assigning new buses to all depots.
I recall that with the 9000's which had the 2 color destination signs on the side as well as the front of the bus they did not make new side signs after the Southwest Brooklyn service changes which were made in the fall of 1978
By the way Ulmer Park had mostly GM's until the Grummans were assigned there in 1982 or 1983
Thank You
actually 1980 for grummans. pa26-50 and 256-321` were assigned there followed by 400 series express coaches. 1239-1256 were the first rts arriving in august of 1981 followed by pa1430-1480 shortly thereafter.also some 9000s from si operated in up. they had forward facing seats with pink interiors.they were 9150 and up.
I miss those Buses. Iused to ride them all the time on the B54 to downtown Brooklyn....
9305 was one of the last. it made its last trip from yukon of course.
I have see some people haveing those. Sometimes I see people with MetroCard Holders that just say "MetroCard" On it and I had see them in Brown and Navy Blue. I heard they got them at 370 Jay Street. And I have been looking for those. Do anybody know how much is to buy one?
BLX know of these plain metrocard holders (freebies). BLX recalls that there were 3 versions. Yellow w/blue lettering, Blue w/yellow lettering and brown w/yellow lettering (last version). They were first given out when the free transfer/fare deal was instituted, back in 1996? BLX still has a few brown ones left, do you need one? BLX sends peace and love to all those who feel the need to bring forth their inner feelings, even if they are tainted with negativity. Hey, FLX, how are you? BLX also asks, are you a b/o from the 222nd St. location of a depot that was in it's original state a bakery distribution depot? Talk to me my brother, the truth will set you free. BLX is out!
Would you please send me your E-Mail Adress? Send your E-Mail Adress to:MTAboy99@aol.com
BTW I not even a B/O. It just a name for my 1st time rideing a Nova RTS Suburban on the Q46 Line. I had also rode #9288 on the Q79 as well.
And can you send me one of those Holders?
How about a paper one that syas Queens Surface .. could be a collectors item ?
Where can I get one of those?
Got any metrocards or holders to trade ?
E-mail this writer with your snail-mail address & we'll talk about it further.
BTW, Would love to acquire some of those Philly metrocards I saw this past Sat. & Sun.
Mr t__:^)
Heard on fox 5 the DOT bus strike may be over. Hopefully this is true and the Q53 will be running tomorrow for my trip to the beach.
I Happy it's over now. They have been loseing Money in the long term.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):
I was at the beach today, and nice weather I must say. How is the Q53? I've never been on it. I took my usual path: B13 to L-Train to A-Train to the Shuttle. I rode my R143 on the L, then I took the R32 on the A, than the R44 on the shuttle, then vise verse going back.
There's always a chance that the strike may go on for a few more weeks, so let's hope that it will end ASAP.
-
Q58- RTS #9144
Q55- RTS #5062
B26- RTS #9595
B52- RTS #9179
Q55- RTS #8166
I looked at 1010WINS.com. There was no announcement there as of 12:55 am.
There is an article on Newsday.com about it. Helen Marshall introduced a package where the funding for health benefits would come from internal cutbacks in the companies. Bloomberg's response: "glad to see something is being done". What an ass! The union president, Toussaint, though said he will not call off the strike until he sees something in writing. Is it over...I guess we will see on monday.
Bloomberg's response: "glad to see something is being done". What an ass!
Your reaction is understandable as an affected rider, but it's still inaccurate. The union is striking a PRIVATE company, not the city. NYCDOT is only responsible for contingency plans, and the private companies know they have no reason to guarantee benefits or job security past the contract expiration date. If the Queens privates owned their routes, that would be another story, but they don't. The union is acting as if this is some sort of lifetime contract with the city... Academy could underbid all of them next renewal, and then what? All of these striking employees would be out of work anyway.
In New Jersey, several private companies have contracts to run NJT routes. If Community's drivers went on strike and the company couldn't operate their NJT 750-series routes, NJT is only responsible for contingency. They can not and would not intervene in the strike itself, even if the workers were demanding "NJT-equivalent pay for running the NJT routes". At worst, NJT would cancel the contract and operate the routes themselves until they could be re-bid. That is also NYC's option if the Queens strike continues, but they have no position or "right" to end it.
You've still missed the issue.
The union wants a change in the money the companies provide to their benifits plan (because it's going into the red). The money to fund this would normally come in the form of an addition to the moneys the City provides since the private companies can't raise the fares or otherwise generate this money.
One of the proposals on the table is a plan for the City to find ways for the privates to operate cheeper (less service to the public, defered maintance [less overtime or less union staff], less paperwork to the City/State/Feds, etc.).
It seems like all involved are closer to making an agreement. That's good news because nobody is going to win this one: The union members & owners have lost money, Mike has suffered a political loss, he just doesn't realize it yet.
I think Mike is hoping:
>The city don't have to pay a cent.
>The union calls off the strike
>The bus companies fold so TA can take over the routes.
>Something happens before everybody realises he lost.
What you have mentioned is exactly why Bloomberg will stay out of it. He's a businessman, not a politician. He is thinking, if the privates can't operate sufficiently and efficiently within their income, they should go under like any other business, and be replaced by an organization that can. That's Free Enterprise Economics 101.
My company only pays 10% of my health care costs. That's all. It's the legal minimum. But we accept that because we know the company is hurting. Been going down the last 4-5 years. We've laid off 10 of the 35 full-time staff since the spring of 2001. Our part time staff has dwindled from 350 to about 200. We're not union, but we'd rather have a paycheck than an unemployment check.
It's all about understanding what an employer can legitimately provide versus what employees "demand" they deserve. And in this case, while it's possible Mike takes a hit from Queens residents, the other 4 boroughs may very well be thinking, "why should WE have to subsidize Queens private-bus riders if their companies can't handle the finances?"
Tough call either way.
[The union wants a change in the money the companies provide to their benefits plan (because it's going into the red). The money to fund this would normally come in the form of an addition to the moneys the City provides since the private companies can't raise the fares or otherwise generate this money.]
Of course they can "generate this money" - all they need to do is simply pay the increased benefits. It will then become just another expense which DOT must automatically reimburse. (See the "Stupid Question" thread.) And, as long as all expenses are reimbursed without question, there is little or no incentive to operate efficiently - or at all.
That's part of why the current "franchise" structure will be around forever: the companies will never give up their guaranteed-profits-with-minimal-oversight without a HUGE fight.
the strike is not over yet here is the story from newsday. copy and paste it to your browser
http://newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-bus0713.story?coll=ny%2Dnynews%2Dheadlines
I could not believe but I guess it is becoming more of reality. I just have seen the first signs of the B8 extending to Rockaway Av. At the Rockaway Av/Heagman Ave Bus stop. The bus stop reads "B8 To Brookdale Hospital" and B60 to Canarsie" There was no changes to Hageman Bus stops after E 98 St and the old B 8 bus stops are still on Amboy St. I did not get a chance to ride the B 8 to see if it did started service to Rock Av but I want to confirm if the extension has already started and if not why is the B8 bus stops are already posted?>
If they are extended let us know how they do that right turn at Rockaway
The B-8 extenstion is not scheduled to strat until the System Pick in September when th B-8 is transferred to Jackie Gleason.
According to MTA documents which i saw the B-8 will continue on Hegman Ave from Amboy St to Rockaway Ave. Make a right on Rockaway Ave till Linden Blvd. Right on Linden Blvd and current route to Bay Ridge
Thank You
Can you explain why that the B8 is now posted on the Rock Av stop?
Sure...NYCDOT, which is responsible for posting bus stop signs, was early in posting that one.
David
As some of you know, I don't like Kingsbridge, they dumped those garbage 4200's here in FP. I can care less about any crap that gets dumped on them, hell send all the 3900's over there. Kingsbridge is good place to see buses rot.
Now back to the topic, where is it? I heard someone say its in Manhattan, is this true? I'm just curious too see how it looks. Is it in an open area that you can walk around it like ENY and FLA, or is it behind a gate like CS?
Since I refuse to take one of their buses, what subway lines go there? Just tell me the street #'s.
-
Jay
You should change your handle to "Bitterman"! Anyhow, Kingsbridge Depot is at the 215th Street station of the #1 SUBWAY line. I'm not sure about the gate situation, though.
U can walk around the side streets and behind the depot. They have buses all over the place. ( p,s )just be careful since its just TA and Sanitation back there u might get some looks.,but hey its public streets .
Kingsbridge didn't dump anything at Freshpond. Depots don't just decide for themselves where to transfer their buses. For the 100th time now, bus moves are made at the managerial level of transit.
BIG AL
Wow - you really have it bad for good 'ol KB. I'm sure some suit is responsible for the transfer of buses and not anyone in the depot. Anyways - The #1 line 215th Street station is the nearest to KB which is at 218th Street & 10 Ave.
Wayne
Where did these buses come from, before they were dumped in FP. I can't find them anywhere in my 1999 rosters. Did QV have them?
These are former Jamaica and Stengel buses that were in Crosstown Storage prior to being "dumped" in FP.
So that's why they came to FP in "decent condition". Not that many buses make their way to FP looking okay. The ones that usually come here look like they're ready to fall apart, LOL! Crap like 3309-3311, 3299, 3460, 3720 to name a few. Queens kept these three buses in decent shape. They are somewhat superior to those horrid ENY 3900's(3986, 3987, 3995, 3997), and even better than most of those crappy JG 4600's/4700's. Who know's? the 3918, 3919, and 3921 might last another good year or two here.
-
Jay
This is what I heard at the time FP got these buses: they were put into Crosstown storage because all 3 were in bad shape. They were fixed up at a base shop (all received re-conditioned engines) before being resurrected and assigned to FP. Currently, all FP 1985's are o/s, stored for the summer where the M train comes down the ramp leaving FP Road station. They will not be needed till school reopens in September due to fewer summer runs. FP maintance will start running them into the pits in late August.
Last week I saw a number of brand new Van Hool buses in service in the rush hours by DeCamp, which has also had a number of Prevosts in service the past few years. Generally, it is rare to see non-State buses in service with DeCamp other than in the weekday rush hours, so don't expect to see the Van Hools in service other than then. Of course, they may pop up in charter service at any time.
I have seen those buses as of late myself. Looks like a very nice piece of equipment.
T.Beverett
Very nice piece of equipment in deed, however those driver's don't know how to run them, I had 8470 (MCI D4000) on saturday and I ran past one like he was standing still, made no sense!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor that means you got skill behind the wheel!! And if you or I were driving that VanHool we would have its tongue hanging out of .
T.Beverett
Man I wish this damn strike would end already!! I had a 2 1/2 hour ride on the subway from Flushing to Rockaway Park, nearly an hour of that trip just waiting for trains!
Someone suggested I go the N27/N32/Q22 route, I think it would've been faster.
The way it's going, they'll be no Q53 for the entire 2002 beach season they way things are going at the bargaining table. Oops, they ain't even talking!
Perhaps it's time for the MTA to take over these routes. I am losing my patience here. Many communities are left without bus service, and even before the strike DOT buses weren't always reliable and frequent.
If it wasn't for Green lines which has a different Union, the Rockaways would have no bus service at all. As it is, looking at my Queens bus map the whole Northern Blvd corridor from Corona to Astoria has NO buses.
If they don't take the latest offer which is a fair compromise I'm losing my pateince with the striking DOT drivers.
I think that even after the buses start rolling again, MTA should take over these routes.
I have an idea! Why don't you either swim in a local pool or watch old "Gidget" movies in an air conditioned room if you want to see young ladies in bikinis and keep cool at the same time!
From Flushing you could have also taken the Q44 to 165 St Terminal. Walked over to the O41. Taken that to Cross Bay and Liberty for the Q21.
Nah, why bother. It's just to difficult right now to get around Queens without the buses. If I want the beach I go to Long Beach. I'm sure businesses are hurting. If this goes into August a restraining order should be issued to get those buses moving again. I'm really losing my patience and I'm not even a regular DOT rider. I'm sure the people in Jackson heights and East Elmhurst have probably reached the boiling point after this.
There will probably be many angry customers whenever the buses start rolling again. And if the Union doesn't take the latest deal, than any anger toward the DOT B/O's is justified.
Instead of insisting on dedicated health care benefits from DOT, why don't the companies simply agree to pay the increase and then charge it back? It would become just another expense (along with wages, the presidents' and board members' salaries, campaign contributions, liability settlements, and penalties for bad service) that DOT is contractually obligated to cover.
An even better solution is just to have MTA take over the routes. After my 2 1/2 hour long subway ride from Flushing to Rockaway Park, my patience is wearing thin with the City, companies, and the drivers.
Needless to say until the strike is over, no Rockaway Park for me.
BLX has feelings over a posting that says 'stupid question'. First off, BLX has monitored the postings of Gotham Bus Co. for some time now. The needs of this particular individual goes far beyond that of someone with average intelligence. BLX feels vibes that although the writer is one with advanced schooling the posting whereby a question is already deemed to be stupid cannot be serious. BLX recalls days in grade school when our leaders of higher education would recite 'No Question Is Stupid'. BLX wants Gotham Bus Company to feel the worth of such a noble cause. That with keeping the transit dream alive. BLX says watch Gotham City and the dynamic duo fight crime on TV LAND mornings at 4am. BLX would guess that the facilitator of Gotham's postings would relate to the character of 'The Book Worm' more so than 'Egg Head'. BLX is tired, BLX loves everyone.
M4 feels that BLX should stick to transit related matters and not play pop psychiatrist. BLX reminds M4 of the Seinfeld character who always spoke about himself in the third person, as if he was talking about somebody besides himself.
M4 feels that if BLX can't talk in the first person, then it's BLX who needs some counseling. I wonder. HMMM? Does BLX know he's talking about himself when he writes "BLX has feelings over a posting that says 'stupid question'." Or does he think that BLX is somebody else.
Michael
Definitely knows himself in Washington, DC
David says "BLX" and "Gotham Bus Company" know each other and it was all an in-joke -- and since David knows both parties, David is right :-)
David
Charge it back ?
The normal routine is for the City to be part of the negotiations, so that anything that you are assuming that they will pay for, that they should agree to up front, i.e. if it's money they are the guy with the check book, if it's work rules, etc. they don't much care so long as the min number of buses ("making service") go out every day, they are clean & don't have an expired inspection on them.
At the TA they pritty much do the whole job, at the privates it takes the City, the State, the TA & the private companies. Yes the TA proves support to the operation of the City owned buses, e.g. the MetroCard data is processed & recorded on TA computers.
If RJB were still with us, there would not have been a strike at all. He had a knack of smoothening things and simplifing complex things (rest-in-peace). Now, there's just too many chiefs and no indians. And those that try to eminate RJB just can't shine his shoes.
Another thing, now is the time to squeeze the membership, Make them work 8 hours for 8 hours pay, not 4 hours for 8 hours pay! The work rules are crazy. If the MTA took over, the work rules would be better, but much worse for the drivers. And the shop workers are worse. If their overtime is cut ANY amount, they slowdown and the owners do nothing except cave in to more overtime. Enough is enough. Put the work out for bid already, and get some management in charge that will work for their wealth and make the workers work for their buck. Make the workers accountable for their actions, like we are made to do at our jobs.
All right, I took a trip to Albany recently for Freshman orientation at SUNY. Now, I had gone there before on a Saturday and knew the maps on the schedules weren't quite right, as I had given up on taking the bus to the Amtrak station and instead decided to run... across the Hudson River.
Coming back from the school, I had no idea where to get the 14 bus to the Amtrak station. I thought it'd be across the street from where I'd gotten off, but it was a one-way street. The map, of course, indicates that the bus runs in both directions on this street. I figure the only place I know I'm going to get the bus is at Empire State Plaza, lots of buses were there and it was the only bi-directional street I remember the bus using.
Walking in the hot sun for what seemed like a half-mile, I see a 14 bus headed for "Downtown Albany" go by, at the exact time the bus back to the Amtrak station was supposed to go. Looking closely at the actual numbers on the schedule, I realize the truth: The bus is a LOOP! And the map doesn't indicate this at all! There were no arrows, and the line ENDS at Hudson and Broadway.
So, in short, I find that the bus maps are sorely lacking in minor details like the direction the bus travels, where transfers can be made, alternate routes for evenings and weekends, and the maps of various routes have conflicting information on what shape Empire State and Ten Eyck plazas are!
Don't believe me? Here's the schedule (and map) for the 14 bus, straight from the CDTA web site.
Sounds like how Hampton Roads Transit (HRT) is? Theres suck also. There maps are outdated but the schedule is slightly off!
Even better: I get a 404 (Object Not Found) when I try to see the map.
Hmm, as do I. Maybe they read the post?
I BELIEVE YOU! I BELIEVE YOU!
It says:
504 Gateway Timeout
This Web page could not be opened. There may be too many people accessing this page or the page may be unavailable. Please try again later.
What a weird name name for route 504: Gateway Timeout? That's weird.
Now stopping with the sarcasm.
Ever look at the New Orleans bus map? I believe route 11 magically turns into route 22 along Magazine Street.
I rode through Blacksburg the other day to see if their new buses had come in, and found a hodgepodge of New Flyer LF 30, 35, and 40-footers sitting outside. To my understanding, they were only getting 4 to replace their RTS fleet, but lo and behold, I found 12 sitting around the outer perimeters of their facility!
This makes me a bit concerned as to the fate of their Flxible Metro fleet. While they set out to replace four RTSes, they have 12 Flxes in their fleet, and the math is a bit scary. One of two things is happening; either they decided to become an all-New Flyer fleet, or perhaps they bought extras to supplement the existing Flxes..hopefully the latter.
Most of the word I heard was that the Flxes would stay another year or two, but I also heard they were adding more buses anyway as they do not have enough extras during the school year.
Also, the numbers are intersting on these buses: The 35 and 40-footers are 5200s, while the newly added 30-footers are 4200s. Usually Blacksburg nomenclature for fleet nos. are as follows:
EXAMPLE:
Retired RTS no. 1902:
1=1st bus order of that year
9=1989
0=30 or 35-footer
2=2nd bus of that order
Flxible Metro no. 2616:
2=2nd bus order of that year
6=ordered 1986
1=40-footer
6=6th bus of that order
I would assume the 4 and 5 would have something to do with April and May, which is when the buses arrived or were built. Either that or it distinguishes the 30-foots from the 35 and 40s. They have quite the unique numbering system, and it's neat when you learn it.
Hey Flxible,
Let "CTRABS74" know about that! I'm sure that is key information he would want. Thanks for the information you shared.
Noted... =)
Good to know you got the info. I hope the Flxes aren't retired right away; they are good buses and have served Blacksburg well.
Just curious...do you live near there also?
You bet; anytime!
-Fred
So, the 35-ft RTS buses are actually 1901-1902 instead of 1911-1912 as I have listed on the roster?
Does anybody know if "Bus Rosters on the Web" will be updated? I e-mailed the webmaster but I get the feeling that nothing is going to happened.
If anyone is interested, i found the pirate models in long island. they currently have the gmc fishbowl(new look) plus the Grumman 870. The store is charging $63.98 each. the place is Willis Hobbies in Mineola, Long Island. Figured anyone interested in these models could get them.
Very nice; those are great models. I have one of the Grumman 870s as well...never seen what the Fishbowl looks like in the flesh but I knew it was out there. What a great find!
-F.
Workers refused a compromise offer today and thus Queens Surface, Triboro, and Jamaica buses remain off the road.
This is getting quite annoying to say the least. How bus service for 100,000 people remains suspended, and how this is allowed to happen is a travesty.
The time is now to do away with the privates, or at the very least the Taylor law should apply to all public transit, even if it is private. I think it should be rushed through NY State legislature to get these buses rolling. People's lives and communities are getting screwed up from this, it's obvious the companies nor the drivers give a damn about their commuters.
so what your saying is private enterprise should be considered civil servants.
If private enterprise is supplying a public service, such as buses, other transit, or is a utility, yes they should be civil servants.
We are. Our main job is to provide SERVICE to the public. In this we are more accountable then the TA is.
I just happen to work for a person vs. a corporation. Her name is Myra Burke & she met with a dozen of us Friday, all of which she knows on a first name basis .... I like that !
Of course you know Myra receives a paycheck from the city, and, in reality, is an "owner" on paper only, yes?
She'd take a nice compensation package and walk into the sunset... yes?
She doesn't make a "profit" and pocket farebox revenue, correct?
If this is true, it sounds like you work more for an agency than a person ;-)
What private enterprise doesn't provide a public service? How would it remain in business if it didn't? Do you propose that everyone become a civil servant?
McDonalds is in the public service industry. Civil-service status for everyone!!
:o
well that would be the end of fast food as we know it.
And just think on this for a minute:
Mickey Ds & Burger King keep looking for ways to improve their service (speed & menue) because of competition.
I've said many times that the privates help do that in this City. Prior Mayors have seen the political value of the privates too. Rudy didn't originally, but he did after a while on the job. Could they do btter, sure.
I think competition is always good. One of my favorite examples is back in the 80's how BMW and Mercedes sold their cars here at ridiculous prices. They were clearly well-built, but they didn't have to strive hard because their only competition was Cadillac - who at the time was building horrible cars and Jaguar who wasn't much better. Then in 1986 Honda launched Acura and 1990 Toyota and Nissan launched Lexus and Infinity respectively. Now we had these luxury cars that were cost much less and in Lexus' case excellent quality. Of course BMW and Mercedes had to lower their prices and make their cars more competitive.
Wayne
"Mickey Ds & Burger King keep looking for ways to improve their service (speed & menue) because of competition."
But they are independent of one another, unlike the city and private lines.
"I've said many times that the privates help do that in this City. Prior Mayors have seen the political value of the privates too. Rudy didn't originally, but he did after a while on the job. Could they do btter, sure."
How can the privates "truly" compete with the city, when they receive upwards of 60% funding from the city itself? If left to function without subsidy, the privates would be out of business in a week. There would be no competition.
Now, take a different example from the same point of view- how does Academy compare and offer competition which increases productivity from NYCT?
And in all honesty, the friendly folks at NYCT don't give a rats patootie how QS is doing. Or do you believe otherwise?
Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective...
academy bailed out last year leaving si commuters in the lurch because nyc refused to subsidize them.
"How can the privates "truly" compete with the city, when they receive ... subsidy ..."
"And in all honesty, the ... NYCT don't give a rats patootie how QS is doing. Or do you believe otherwise?"
My point is that the TA vs. the City group of bus companies is the competition.
Case in point the US DOT publishes a "Transit Profiles". It includes maps & charts to give you productivity data to see whos' doing it cheeper then who. I know for a fact that suits at the TA & nycDOT look at the numbers there. Second case in point Rudy created the Off Peek dollar fares in Queens for a couple of reasons. He also reduced the Express fare for political reasons. Third case in point, take a look at a TA telephone directory. The thousands of names in it is a eye opener just by it self. At this depot there are about 50 non-union staff ... this include the secretarys & mail clerks.
So, I'll say again there is value in the City having direct control of at least some bus service in NYC. Some at City Hall rate that value higher then others.
Disclaimer: I am not the official spokesman of the MTA, TA, nycDOT or my employeer.
so then the store owners are civil servants too. and all business` that sell any kind of services are public servants
No, business that provides essential service, such as transportation, power, and phone service, should be civil servants.
If McDonald's goes on strike there's always Burger King. If the local transit company goes on strike, there is little alternative. Sure people in Forest Hills can take the subway, my concern is with people who have no alternative to the buses.
I totally agree with you. and by those standards, it should only apply to the services that the city relies on as a need; no fast food chain.
There was also talk of another option-that the MTA would take over thses routes ASAP. It was mentioned on channel 7 at 11.
I totally agreed with that statement because these private companies QSC, JBL TCC, are losing so much money per day with this strike which honestly is not their fault. I blame the city and the mayor for this mess.
And at year's end, the MTA buses and subways may go on strike for the same reason-benefits. Imagine if the city's buses and subways were on strike?
The city would literally be at a standstill. Let's just hope that won't happen.
But we will remember how you treated us here in Queens when it's time for your supposed re-election Mr.Dirty Bloomies!
#1979 x1
Well the MTA is subject to the taylor law, and strikers would be hit with penalties.
So what, John?
If the agreement outweighs the penalty, it's worth it.
It's a gamble, but this union is ready and willing to negotiate for a fair contract. Can you honestly say (if you even know) that the TA bargains in good faith?
Either way, I win. I'm an ATU member. I receive what TWU receives. If TWU strikes, I get locked out. The union will sue the TA and get back anything we lose in a lockout.
Really? In that case, the Taylor law is useless. They should make the penalties even worse!
How do you figure it's worthless? The TWU operators will still be penalized. So will I, however I have legal recourse because I was prevented from performing my duties as contractually agreed upon when management locked us out. Management will be in violation of my contract, not I.
The union would find it very hard to strike the TA because of the laws in place, and more specifically what it would cost the union in money. Local 100's power has been weakened because of the public's need. They still have a great deal of power, so the TA will have to bargin in good faith with them.
You say people's lives are getting "screwed up" with this. Have you ever looked at this from the driver's stand point. I am driver myself, and when I was with NJT we almost had a similar situation because our contract was just pure shit. These driver's have every right to strike until they get what they deserve and believe me, IF, BIG IF the Metropolitan Transporation Authority scoops them, it'd be probably the biggest blessing that these three private operators could recieved.
It's not like these passengeres are all out stranded, they have MTA services also, snotty little bastards don't wanna ride the subway, they better act like the know. I'd wish these passengers would stop being so selfish because if it was them, they'd be out there striking also.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Hey Trevor...
I am one of those...um...what did you call us..."snotty little bastards"...that doesnt like to ride the subway...but being that Queens Surface remains on strike...its basically one of my only options to get to Manhattan every day. Why do I not like to ride the subway? Because it is dirty, smells, overcrowded and slow! Maybe if we had a subway system that was up to human standards...it would be worth it...but being one of the greatest cities on Earth and having such a poor subway system...thats wrong. So dont call us "snotty little bastards"....its like going from a Mercedes to a Yugo....it just doesnt cut it!
Yes I called ya'll that, because I watch the news with these folks on it, and its like watching poor little rich kids who just crashed thier Beamer into crowd of people (Lizzie Grubman Reference) and throw a temper-tantrum. I'm sorry if it seems like I don't have any sympathy, I have a little, but I'm also a Bus operator and can sympathize with my fellow career mates more!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Not everybody is rich. What about all the hard working class in East Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson heights without their local buses. Some of them have to walk 10 blocks or more just to get a local bus.
And alot of these people can't afford taxis.
See, spoiled, walking is something I had to do a lot of before I got my car. I live in Jersey and at certain times if you miss a bus, walking is your only option. And 10 blocks is nothing compared to walking 20 suburban blocks. 10 blocks is a breeze, I just don't get it! How can you live in the best city in the world for getting around and STILL be complain, ther are places that WISH they had the transportation options the NY Metro has!
I don't know I guess I see things differently!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Personally, I must agree with Trevor on this one because I'm not just agreeing so I can suck up to the MTA for that Traffic checker job....I agree because, he's right. I live in Long Island. If I miss the bus (Lack of....Suffolk Transit), then I must find a way to get to my destination. Walking is probably the best thing to do! Exercising by walking...I walked to Southampton College from my house everyday and that's a 30 minute walk back and forth. My point, walking is the best thing to do for now. By doing this......MAYBE the drivers would be like, "Gee, maybe they forgot about us." I know, I was trying to be funny. BTW, two weeks ago, I posted "my day in Queens" on BT but I left this part out. I spoke with a couple of drivers from JBL. I told them, "What if the MTA took over your routes BUT did not hire you guys...OR you guys would get no senority in the MTA unions?" They told me.....nothing. I'm serious..nothing. They were really thinking about that possibilty as I was walking away from them....hehe! So I agree with Trevor on this. When I use to live in the city (Jamaica, Queens) I walked from Hillside AV/179th St to Hillside Av/169th St then again to Bayside High School (32nd Av and Corporal Kennedy St --- Q28, Q31) due to snow and ice and the Q31 (Bus #2253 in 2/14/96...damn I have a good memory) was TRYING to get up that hill. That was an hour walking but it was worth it. Try it! Walking to the subway and who knows, you might meet someone...LOL!
Of course, I do excuse to elderly especially duriing the heat wave.
Ah, your last comment touches a serious problem ...
It has been said here before that a lot of the folks who ride buses in this area (NYC, NJT, LI Bus), do so NOT because they prefer it, but do it because they have no other option.
Lets take the elderly or disabled and leave out the poor because they can walk according to you guys ? Queens Surface carries a lot of these folks who are now having great difficulity getting to their jobs in the City.
Mike says, let them take the dollar vans ... yea sure they can.
You hit the nail on the head with you statements. If some of the people out there were in our shoes then they would understand why they went on strike. I feel for the Operators on strike and hope this gets resolved soon so they could go back to making a living they way they know how.
T.Beverett
Be careful, folks.
The City did not give the drivers and mechanics the money when they had it and now they're paying for that because they don't have the money now. I believe that they have a right to strike and I hope this could be settled soon. However, DO NOT portray this strike as a minor inconvienience. 115,000 daily riders depended on this system and frankly, saying that people can just walk is a level of arrogance that is not necessary or advised. The NYCDOT believes people can just walk too and it shows in the level of investment (time and money) in the franchise system. If people could just walk, then there is no need for those routes, and "someone" may suggest shutting the entire system down since people are still getting to work without the buses. After all, shutting down the system would allow "someone" to divert $108 million to some other area.
A month long strike caused Pioneer Bus Company (yes, a franchise company) to fold. Metro Apple Express also folded after a strike. If this strike continues, I forsee financial problems for Queens Surface before anyone else, considering that Triboro and Jamaica are owned by Green Lines, which continues to bring in revenue through itself and Command. That event could have disaterous effects for those drivers.
Strikes also reduce post-strike ridership. A 1998 SEPTA strike knocked down ridership by 28%. They have yet to reclaim all of those riders. There will be service cuts when those buses come back and that's going to hurt everyone. However, the franchise system needs reform. Maybe this strike will see bids finally issued. This system couldn't continue down the path it was going.
I have to agree with these statements.
Strikes also reduce post-strike ridership. A 1998 SEPTA strike knocked down ridership by 28%. They have yet to reclaim all of those riders. There will be service cuts when those buses come back and that's going to hurt everyone
I can see where this happens - a friend of mine lives in Woodside and works in Astoria - a one seat ride on a Triboro Coach route. She could have opted to walk and then take 2 subway trains and walk some more, but instead she started driving to work as a "temporary" measure. Well she likes driving so much now (and the freedom it gives her to stop and shop on the way home) that she never intends to go back to the bus.
The big negative in working in Astoria is too many cars competing for so few parking spots along with alternate side of the street parking restrictions complicating matters. If she has a place to park all power to her. If too many people get the same attitude and do not come back to the bus, then service will be cut. When she needs the bus on a snowy day (or if the car is unusable for any reason), riding as a foul weather "friend", there will be less buses out there and then she'll have something else to complain about!
If too many people get the same attitude and do not come back to the bus, then service will be cut.
I totally agree and this is why I cited my friend as just one andecdotal example. The City needs to realize this too and settle this strike. Some alternative choices people make are going to stick and the busses will not get all their riders back.
Well after four weeks and nobody doing anything about it...its only normal for those of us who rely on the express buses to get pissed off. Why should we be inconvenienced? It is not fair to us as well. I personally am not pissed off at the drivers...I am pissed off at the city and the DOT for not doing anything about it!
Of course some people got FIRED because of this, so not only do they have to fight the bus company, they even have to sure their companies for unfair dismissal, so some people have a lot of problems to deal with.
Of course some people got FIRED because of this strike, so not only do they have to deal with the striking bus companies, they even have to sue their (own) companies for unfair dismissal, so some people have a lot of problems to deal with.
Not everyone will be so understanding when they see these drivers picketing in front of a subway.
The subway's in the best shape it' ever been in....why not give it a try and stop ya whinning!
In the best shape its ever been?? Then that is really sad!!
Well, it IS 100 years old, and has been through decades of neglect and disrepair. Considering you can't "New York-Proof" everything, it's in pretty decent shape.
The employee bathrooms are all well maintained and fully stocked. I can't comment on the rest of the subway system... I only use it for restroom breaks :-)
BTW- for those of you who were arguing about the number of stations that have bathrooms- they all have bathrooms. Matter of fact, they all have a minimum of 2. Many have upwards of 6.
Even rinky-dink 18th Avenue and 63rd Street has a bathroom. Two, actually.
I was born riding the subway, I have no problems with it. In Ridgewood, the only way to Manhattan is by the M or L lines. Well we had the QM24, but Triboro is on strike.
It would be hard to imagine seeing the QM routes being owned by the TA. FP could get the QM24, but I truly doubt its going to happen.
-
R143 L-Train
R143 M-Train(coming soon)
Remember the ONLY reason that the TA started Express bus service was because the privates started doing it from Queens.
I need to go to a place near the AIR PORT in south Jamaica today...and I have to find A detor because the Jamaica bus line strke[NEW YORK BLVD] best route to DMV? ANYONE?
The DMV, I'm not sure, I think the Q3 or the Q6 goes near it. When I was there, I remember seeing a bus with a JA patch, I think that's the Q3. The Q6 goes down Rockaway Blvd, but I'm not sure how far it goes, you might have to walk a few blocks.
I'll try the Q6 from Sutphin,may just get me,within walkin distance. thanks.....
I'm with you on that one.
Hello to eveyone on bus talk. This is my deal with this strike. I was hire by QSC in june. I was in training. I had one more week to go. And a other week for my road test.And now i have nothing!!!!! No job and no back up from the union. THIS STRIKE SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!....John R QSC???
That's some messed up $hit, I feel for you man. Its the citys fault for not trying to do anything to stop it. Maybe some of the other BusTalkers would like to add to this....
Well when Wimpberg did not want to get involved it made the situation worse. The longer the strike goes on, the angrier the Union will get.
As for being on a waiting list for a job, when the strike is over they should just take up where they left off and give the operator his job.
I feel the City, the companies, and the Union have all let us down. What we should do now is lock Wimpberg, the company, and union heads in a room till they come out with a settlement.
John, You are caught in a very bad place because unlike most busineses we aren't offering any service that the guys on probation & management could WORK at, A-N-D your status denies you the ability to show up daily for strike duty & get $40 for each appearance (from the union).
When I first joined Pan Am Wld Airways I worked during a strike because I was still on probation.
you got that right,they only give a damn about fattening thier wallets more.i say they either cut the crap and get to work or quit,find a job that gets them what they want or just fire them all and hire a new breed of drivers who give a rat's ass what they get paid.i for one,as ive said before,if i worked for them,id be on the streets with my bus taking people where they wanna go and to hell with my employers,i unlike them care about the people.i dont care about the money i make as long as i do the one thing i love to do and thats help people.
Would you accept a job where you would have a lousy medical plan?
Or a possibilly you might get laid off if the company loses its operating lines?
What is very fustrating for the guys & gails on the other side of the picket line is the fact that their Brother's in the SAME union local have a better medical plan, job security & higher hourly wage rate.
Some of them want to form a different local within the TWU because they think Roger T. has sold them out or just doesn't care too much about what happens to them.
As part of management here, that might be a better thing for the companies then the union members. As a former Teamster I feel for their fustration, but it's time for them to come back to work, as no matter what the cause they have lost this one big time.
What is very fustrating for the guys & gails on the other side of the picket line is the fact that their Brother's in the SAME union local have a better medical plan, job security & higher hourly wage rate.
I don't know why that's so frustrating. They don't work for the same agency as I do. Would it be acceptable for private sanitation to refuse to do their jobs because they don't receive the same benefit package as DSNY?
They could have easily taken the TA test. They chose an easier way out- by applying for an instant job rather than taking a test and hoping to be called. Isn't that the truth for the most-part?
How can they, in good conscience, extort the people of southeast Queens holding out for a benefit they're not entitled to have?
It may sound harsh, but it's still the reality.
To all those who doubted me when I said this strike was about employee protection and not health benefits... I hate to say "I told ya so". But..
Anyway, I can truly empathize with them, and I do feel for them. But I honestly believe this strike (or what it's trans/progressed into) is wrong.
Since the local 100 TWU here does the same job as their Brothers in local 100 at the TA it's natural for them to not understand why they don't have parity with those Brothers.
They want to blame someone for this proceived injustice. Your comments may be quite accurate, but they wouldn't accept it as an answer just the same.
This doesn't change the fact that local 100 doesn't seem able or willing to get them what they want. Sometimes you have to take a hard look at where you are and admit you have lost the battle. To win the war you must retreat & re-group. It may be that is why Roger T was trying to force a mail vote by the members. His boss over-ruled him.
Now maybe Sonny can resolve the situation, lets hope.
I was browsing through Ebay and came across this old Academy 9A unit for sale, for more of a resale price than what its worth. 9A's usually are not going higher than 15 grand. They are trying to sell it for 24,999. Then they have the nerve to say its a Greyhound type. Its an MC-9, but I never knew a Greyhound bus had a split door, a digital destination sign and no lavatory. LOL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1842956650
Jason D
www.transitalk.org
I don't know, I looked at the bus, and it's worth what they are asking. Looks like they did some SERIOUS work to the bus. It looks brand new. If I had that $$$$$$$ not planned for a Flxible METRO, i'd consider it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Caught this movie on TNT last night. Its story about a door-to-door salesman and his strggle with Cerebral Palsy. The movie starts in the 50s and ends in 1997. At one point in the 50s portion of a movie he gets on a bus. The bus was probably a Twin Coach, definitely not a GM Old Look.
The movie is set on the West Coast. The livery was all tan.
Later in the 90s he gets on New Flyer.
i dont believe there are any twin coaches preserved anywhere. omot owns one but its not operational.
Actually, there is at least one Twin Coach preserved at Virginia Overland Transportation in Richmond, VA; one is a former VTC coach from Richmond circa late 40s or early 50s. Laddie Vitek could confirm this as he is there every now and then. I love those old Twins; I have a video with footage of those buses from that era. It is truly a treat to watch!
-F.
Although I'm not an expert in old buses, it DEFINITELY WASN'T a GMC old look. What I could see of the doorTs and windows it looked very similar to the Twin Coach that is currently pictured on the A1 Model Bus Club when you enter the site.
could you give us a link.thanks
Unfortunately I don't know how to set up the link within the posting.
The site is http;//groups.yahoo.com/group/a1modelbuses
The picture is changed every so often, unlike the random selection on this site, so I would urge you to look today since this picture has been up for a while.
i rode them in atlantic city in the late 50s early 60s. also rememember nycta having one used as a dispatcher/starter bus. it remained stationary at cadman plaza in brooklyn.
Pierce Transit has one Twin Coach 41-S #257, the Pacific Bus Museum has sister 271 both ex Tacoma Transit/Pierce Transit. The Pacific Bus Museum also has a couple other Misc Twin Coaches. As a side note MST of Monteray Ca, has another ex Tacoma Transit/Pierce Transit Twin Coach restored as one of their old buses.
Photos of PT 257:
http://busdude.topcities.com/pt_twin_41s.htm
The Metro Employees Historic Vehicle Assoication has two ex Seattle Transit Twin Coach 41-s's along with a 30G and some TwinCoach Trolleybuses.
Photos of the Mehva Twin Coaches:
http://busdude.topcities.com/mt_twin_30g.htm
http://busdude.topcities.com/mt_twin_41s.htm
http://busdude.topcities.com/mt_twin_44gtt.htm
http://busdude.topcities.com/mt_twin_gwft.htm
Also the TRAMS group of van, BC has a former BC Hydro Twin 41-S #M-852
There are plenty of TwinCoaches on the west coast.
Watched the movie last night. Besides being an excellent movie, the "period shots" were well down also. The 50s bus was an ACF-Brill. I don't know if the Portland, Ore. system ever ran those, but in New York I remember that Queens/Steinway Transit had some into the mid-1950s. Montreal had a large fleet of similar CCF-Brills; some lasted into the mid-1970s.
Just want you all to know, I called FDNY's house to get the information on the NYCDOT Destination signs and his corrections on the MTA NYCT Destination signs. I left a message on his answering machine. It's been about two weeks and he has not gotten back to me. Can somebody confirm that it's the right number?
No disrespect to FDNY, just curious about something mainly in the NYCDOT pages.
Try e-mailing Steve directly. Perhaps he doesn't want to expose his family to excessive telephone calls. Also by e-mailing him, he will have the question in front of him to look up and respond to you rather than having to write it down, put you on hold, look it up and get back on the phone. He may not want to have you and others innocently start "a bad habit".
Also if it will take a while to look up, why should he incur phone charges on your behalf.
Good point, I did not even think of that. My apologizes! Thanks HartBus for you words.
I can get a message to FDNY if you'd like. EMail it to me and I'll forward.
Thanks very much, Brooklyn67
His e-mail does not work but thanks anyway. Sorry for making such a big nothing out of something.....LOL!
This morning I found some more buses on TV. In an episode of "CHiPs", Ponch and Bruce are riding down the PCH when a squareback RTS passes by in vivid orange and red striping. The episode was from 1982, so this was a fairly new bus at the time. Also, one or two similar RTSes rode by throughout the show...this one featured Rich Little and Elvira as its wacky guest stars. Rich was a schizo kidnapper (go figure) and Elvira was a comic book store owner.
Fast forward to one hour and 20 years later; a new video of "By The Way" by The Red Hot Chili Peppers shows lead singer Anthony Kiedis being carted around by a madman taxi driver, narrowly missing a few of the very same buses...same stripes and all!
I would assume these to be former LA units; they had the stripes mentioned above, along with black window trim, wheels, and bumpers. It was just wild to see them on two different programs back to back. Whether it was modern rock or disco in the background, there they were...right in the middle of the chase!
What have you seen rolling by on TV lately?
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I just got home from a screening of The Komediant, a documentary about the Burstein family of Yiddish theater fame. There's a brief clip of their twin children on a green & white Mack school bus; in another scene, the twins are dancing in front of a Public Service Old Look. There's also some stock footage of London in the early 1950s with a double-decker, as well as trolleys in Buenos Aires and Eastern Europe in the 1930s.
During an interview with Lillian Lux and Fyvush Finkel in the Second Ave Deli, a Nova RTS passes by on the M15.
Hope that helps.
Sure does! It's a great show IMO, and in some episodes you get to see Fishbowls and Flxibles. Ever seen "CHiPs '99"?
Hey, when and on what channel is CHiPs on these days?
I used to love that show, mostly for the kick-ass music and the wealth of old-school 'boats' (massive cars)!
on a commercial for detrol a traffic agent is seen with the urge to go. in the background a vehicle with two wires is passing. it appears to be a trolleybus. then the stay puff marshmallow man barrels down the street. probably using models of vehicles.
Same here. Nothing like disco and hoopties! That's what I grew up on when I wasn't riding Flxibles...takes me back!
-F.
A few months ago, I saw an episode of "CHiPs" where a bandit held up a GM Old Look. That was 1980. Kinda surprises me that any transit agency was still using them at that time. I think the last Old Looks here in NYC were retired from service in 1973.
I remember that one. Wasn't that a 4904 hoghway coach though?
We had a full fleet of Old Looks here until 1976, when the Flxibles arrived. Also, I think some were repainted and ran until 1979, when the Grummans came along. We have preserved a 1958 example at our museum; Roanoke bought 3714s exclusively through 1965.
-F.
this movie now on video/dvd has several bus scenes. but it shows how little hollywood cares. in one scene richie tennenbaum escapes from psych hosp and boards a gm new look. of course he doesnt pay. we see hin sitting in the back of the bus however its clearly an rts.
.....and then he gets off a fishbowl after the interior rts shot....i noticed that when i watched it friday
Of course Hollywood doesn't care, they are just a huge business out to rake in as much money as possible. 90% of their product stinks. BLX says this, the original ROLLERBALL with James Caan was observed by BLX in a theater over 25 years ago. Do we need a remake? The corporate world has no use for the transit purists that attempt to relate to the history of mass transit. BLX knows first hand how movies and tv distort the true meaning of scenes incorporating buses! If John Travolta is in a flick set in 1955, will he be wearing bell bottoms and a tye dye shirt, no way. So why can't the producers and directors take the time to evaluate the proper time frame of buses used in the movies. It's not that difficult, right FLX? To all those that want the truth, BLX is here. If your well meaning reading of the postings of BLX causes you sadness, then go to a crummy movie and pay the $8.50 admission. A large popcorn and a soda is another $7. Why can't BLX feel the need to support the Hollywood system?
admission is now ten dollars in some manhattan theaters by the way.
The movie was probably filmed in Toronto. Go Transit seems to have provided the buses.
Today the 11 AM to Midtown and 12:30 PM (To Lindenwood) Trips had a MCI Classic Suburban #701 and that was a rare sighting since #701 is on the QM18 Every Morning and a Orion5 Suburban is normal on that QM15 Trips.
I rode #701 from 57St/3Ave to Metropolitan Ave. It was a bit shakely on Queens Blvd but it was OK and not too much people eather(About 4).
As recording to my QM15 Schdele. The 11 AM and 12:30 PM Trips are to run with buses with W/C Lifts.
Do anybody know why #701 where on those QM15 Trips today?
Last Thursday I spotted one unusal and one not so unusual obeservation. The first happened at the Lakeforest Transit Center, where I saw a New Flyer C40LF on Ride-On route 62. The bus number was 2343, but it had a Ride-On sticker below the destination sign. One other interesting fact was that the front destination sign had the route number 42, yet the side destination sign had the correct route number, 62. This bus was heading towards Germantown. I am guessing that Ride-On might be testing this bus for a possible future bus order.
The other interesting observation this day was seeing C40LF on the K6. This was not as surprising, as sometimes buses not yet in regular revenue service does show up on a weird route, living so close to the Landover Garage and seeing Orion V 21's and 22's, and Orion VI's that did not run out of Landover on Landover routes.
Also alot of Southeast 4200's are running everywhere from Montgomery to Four Mile Run.
Yes, with the arrival of the C40LF's... WMATA has moved around a bunch of buses. Montgomery seems to have picked up some 1998 Orion V's from Western.
Wayne
Yeah, I've seen 4210 and 4211 running out of Four Mile Run lately. As well as a lot of Metro B 8700's. Also have spotted Metro B 9444 out of Royal on the 28A which used to be a Montgomery bus and saw 9431 today on the 28B, but not sure where that one used to operate from. Maybe Northern. I've been seeing more and more Bladensburg Metro B's showing up in Arlington. So far I've seen 9323, 9324, 9345 and 9346 along with random 9750's and 60's coming out of Four Mile Run. Its nice to see the Flxibles outnumbering Orions in rush hour service at least.
9444, as well as 9441-9445 was transferred to Landover from Montgomery a while back before being transferred to Royal. Landover still has 9447, but I am not sure if they still have 9446. Royal also got 9421 and 9422 from Landover, they were originally at Bladensburg, 9427-9429, also from Landover. 9427 was recently given a new paint job but was rehabbed in 1996, before Metro started its new paint scheme. 9430-9432 came from 14th street but Montgomery saw some from time to time.
There was a post back a couple of weeks ago about 9349 being rehabbed, looking like a Metro D. Along with this bus was also 9305.
These were the only two done like this and guess like the posts before it was an A/C thing, though I think the guys at Bladensburg wanted to try something interesting. 9305 has had an interesting past. Before being rehabbed, it was supposidly a test for upper tail lights. The taillights as, I remember, was directly under the bus number and numbered about eight and when the bus used its brakes those taillights formed a diamond. This "experiment" lasted a couple of months then it was taken out. Also after being rehabbed, the back destination sign never worked, I think up to this day. One other thing, 9301 was for a brief time was fitted with a front destination sign similiar to those found on the 9700's and the 9800's.
Most of the 9340's got the METRO-D back, I can clearly remember 9343, 9345 and 9346 among the ones I spotted!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Most of the 9340's got the METRO-D back, I can clearly remember 9343, 9345 and 9346 among the ones I spotted!
Also another few little tidbits, METRO "D" #9701 has the Luminator SMART lights like the 9800s. Also before rehab, METRO "D" 9829 was the only 9800 to carry the little convex mirror above the big mirror on the curb side, now all the 9800s have it AND 9829 was the only non Suburban-Seated buses allowed in Charter services for a while. And remember the RTS, #9112 was the only RTS allowed in Charter services because it had it's rear door removed and made into a "TRUE" suburban coach, it was also given a set of Chromed-out Alcoa rims. METRO "E" #4089-4091 had assigned driver's like 9830-9835 did and was the ONLY METRO "E" buses at the time allowed to be placed into Charter service. The Driver's of 4089-4091 and 9830-9835 cleaned thier own buses, I personally knew the drivers of 4090, 9830-9832 and they'd spend every saturday morning "buffing up" thier buses, they'd get the aluminum rims to look like "chromies," air fresheners were placed on those buses. They were the crown kings of the Montgomery Garage and the entire METROBUS fleet.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I wish they had those chrome wheels instead of the ones they have now,it makes them look ridiculous.
Are these 1990 Metro Bs totally D'ed out (the square back and thicker Excel window frames)? Or do they just have the square back and the older, more standard B window frames? (à la TANK's 1992 Flxibles)
No, they just flattened the back out, everything else remained the same.
Hey W.E.S., welcome! That's weird that those buses would have the Metro-D back on them. Do they still have the same cummins engine?
I haven't seen any other of the Metro B's except 9305 having the Metro D back. The engine sounded the same to me. It was kind of noisy down at Farragut Square where I heard it, but it seemed the same. I haven't noticed any of the 9340's with them. I thought I saw 9346 with the regular back but maybe it was squared off.
I'm just waiting to see the new Neoplans when they arrive.
Me too
Yes, they do still have their Cummins L-10's.
Wayne
Thanks, was trying to get on a long time ago, but with the fact I was using the wrong email address and the board on hiatus I wasn't able to get on sooner.
Some odd facts I spotted yesterday. I saw 9357, originally based at Landover, moved to Royal was spotted the S-2 as well as some of Northwest's 9250's on the X-2. This was the first time I have ever seen a 9200 running on a Bladensburg route
Yeah, I've seen some other moves. I was on 9396 on the 1C yesterday, an Arlington bus. This one I believe spent time at Royal. I've also seen 9395 and 9397 on Arlington runs as well.
Saw 9282, a former Landover bus on the 23C today, a Four Mile Run route. I think all the 9280's are in VA now, actually.
The only time I think I may have seen a 9200 on a Bladensburg route was a couple of years ago that I spotted 9202 on the H2, but that may have been a Western run. I thought most of those buses came out of Bladensburg, but that bus could have been pinch hitting.
Years ago, before Montgomery was open on weekends, routes would be split between Western and Northern. I know the C2 and C4 would routinely see 8900's on the weekends.
Also, alot of Four Mile Run's 8870's and 8880's are running from Landover, some of Bladensburg 9700's have been shipped to Montgomery along with most of the their 4300's, and some 9300's.
Something strange I have been seeing. The B30 buses 4390-4395 have been showing up on the F12,13 and even the F4(why this route, it's always crowded).
I thought I saw 8882 near PG hospital, that makes sense now. The buses sure are going all over the place. A lot of the ex Montgomery 9700's were shipped to Bladensburg, but are out of Four MIle Run now. I've seen 9777-9785.
I can see the B30 buses on the F12-13, which probably don't have a lot of riders, but the F4?? wow. I can't imagine them being that short of buses to put that on there. Its great to see the F4 running on Sundays now.
An interesting thing I read on WMATA's website about the new Regional Study is that there is a proposal to extend the J1, 2 and 3 to College Park. Of course this is a few years off, but that would be one long run. Also, it seems that there are proposals to extend many buses to Farragut Square to parallel some of the rail lines to relieve overcrowding on the metro. Should be interesting to see what actually comes to fruition.
Yea, I was shocked when I saw 4394 on an F4. They had public hearings on the Regional Bus Study. WMATA had it on their website, but otherwise was not publicized. I went to the hearing they had in Arlington, because I missed the one in Greenbelt (couldn't find the place, would have been nice to have a map put up on their website showing where it is). There were some people there, half of them heard it from friends and neighbors and not from the study's advertisements (or lack thereof). The presenters didn't get real specific about some routes, just an overview of the study. Most of the info was on handouts.
In the handouts they did talk about extending the J1,2,3 to College Park and some routes being extended to the Farragut Stations. One route that came to mind was the K12, they did mention others. They also talked about rapid bus service along Columbia Pike, East-West Hwy
Georgia Avenue, Annapolis Road, just to name a few as well as other things such as new/replacement bus garages and new bus routes by 2010.
Most of the Virginia attendees were primarily concerned with four routes, 16(being extended past the Pentagon into D.C., rapid bus service with no available space to put bus only lanes, and service runs) the 2& 3 routes and I think the 1. I hope they do this again and make it more publicized so more people can attend and I think more people want to attend, even some who want to take bus transit but have some concerns. They also have gave out a sheet in case anyone had comment on the study, recommended bus service improvements, or new services they wanted to see. If anyone wants to send any recommendations you can send it to TRANSMANAGEMENT, INC.-505 CAPITOL COURT-NORTHEAST-SUITE 300-WASHINGTON, DC 20002,or they can fax their recommendations to (202) 547-2726.
Just to let you guys know, the other day I was monkeying around on webshots.com, downloading new pictures to my PC and decided to enter "buses" under the photo search field on the main page. Two interesting pictures popped up. One is a night shot of a NYCT Nova RTS shot the evening of 9/11. You can't make out the bus number other than run 25 but the destination sign says "emergency" and the emergency lights are on, which makes it a rather rare photo.
The other interesting photo is of a Texas A&M University RTS right next to the NYCT photo. It shows a RTS with windows almost similar to the ones on Jamaica depot bus 4567. The bus looks like a Nova with chrome wheels but the rear is painted black. But I do suspect it is a late model RTS.
Photos of other types of unknown buses in different countries can be downloaded also.
BIG AL
yesterday i had to take LI bus for the first time. well it wasnt my first time, because i once took the N4. but technically, u can call it my first time, because i took the N6, a bus i never took before, and i took it out of queens all the way to hempstead. it was CNG orion number 308. it talked and announced every stop altho we didnt even stop at some of them! it would even say "brooklyn avenue" and we sped by at at like 40-50mph! man those buses are nice. and instead of asking the bus operator to let me off at morton avenue, i just listened out and the bus just said it! and i got off right at my stop! that was sooo brilliant.
Don't tell Qtraindash7 you had a good experience on LI Bus. That would be heresy! (I've had good experiences on LI Bus also, but don't quote me!)
Thank you for the compliments about LI Bus; as an operator for them, it is sincerely appreciated. When QTraindash7 reads these nice things about LI Bus, his day (or perhaps week or longer) will have been ruined.....
Hey cmmon now, my day aint ruined at all. Most of the LI Bus problems I have, are due to the terrible traffic here up on the north shore. The buses can't help that.
Northern Blvd is the worst road in the county. Whenever I'm riding LI Bus NOT on the north shore I rarely have any problems.
I am reminded of how much better the roads are for the buses when I go to other parts of Nassau county, like Levittown for example.
On the north shore they just make ya stop at every light.
I'm sure some other people who have been up to "snob hills" can elaborate.
Whenever my relatives come to visit me they always comment on how bad the traffic is up here, and how the traffic lights are set up so you have to stop at every one.
Funny thing is if I won the lottery I'd move to the south shore. Most ppl would want the fancy north shore lifestyle, but I say it sucks!
ah so since ur a operator for them, its true u need other bus operator experience b4 u get hired by LI BUS?
Yes, experience is required; please contact the Personnel Department for details.
I have to agree,LI bus is nice.... it has it flaws,but thats life and s*** happens.
I too have had some good experiences on LI Bus. The funnyest was on a "Field Trip" to Long Beach. I was enjoying the ride, while the guy next to me was complaining ... his name is John.
At the end we went our seperate ways all have enjoyed the company & the trip.
im glad you liked it.i like that those orions do that,its a big helper.although what the heck,i go to the last stop of every bus ive been on so far except the N15 to Long Beach,ive gotten off there but not at the railroad station.close enough.
LI Buses me have taketh^.^:
N4
N6
N15
N16
N19
N20
N22/22A
N24
N27
N31/32
N40
N71
N79
N80/81
I've taken the N4, N5 (when it was running back in the mid-80's...now the N1 took over it's route to Grant Park. Both use to terminate at Hilside Av and 168th Pl) and the N22 too LACES skating rink on Hillside Av in New Hyde Park. But I was on the Grummans with the DD 8v71 engines. The N22 bus was with bus #930 in both directions!
here are the LIBUS route i have been on-and have been to either end of their terminals:
N4
N6
N15
N16-Roosevelt Field Terminal-not Baldwin
N19
N20
N22
N24
N25
N31/N32
N33
N40/N41
N45
N49
N54/N55
N71/N72
N79
N91
N94
my favorite line is the N79 route. If any bus fans are trying to see Suffolk Buses or HART buses, take the N79 to Walt Whitman Mall. Plenty of Gilligs,Orion V and Flexible Metro 30 foot to see.
Well these are my favorite LI Bus runs
N6-Limited-great fast way to get to Hempstead terminal from the F train
N15-A long but nice ride, best way to the beach (for me)
N25-Pretty quick ride between Great Neck and Lynbrook
N22A-Another great way to get from the F train to Roosevelt Field
N33-I have to take this one more often, goes between Long Beach and Far Rockaway (I should make it a double beach day)
N72-To Babylon, real speed on Rt 109
N73-A great ride through Levittown, goes right down residential streets
N74-A quick way between Hicksville and Wantagh,
N80/81 more great rides through Massapequa and Bethpage to the Sunrise mall
N57-The Great Neck loop, one part of the North shore I like
The only LI Bus routes I have never been on are the N1,2,3,31/32,37, and Woodbury shuttle
N6 im not thrilled about-always crowded.
N22 also-never on time. saw 2 N22 buses in a row going to Hicksville on Friday.
N32 is ok-but i remember when the Grumman buses were running. perish the thought if these buses had no a/c running
I know you can't be partial because you ride it every day, but whenever I've seen the 21 running along Bryant Avenue or Shore Road, it burns rubber! It's funny how the scenery changes from upscale to grimy LILCO power plant to beachfront. It must be quite a relief to head straight up Bryant under the Viaduct after poking along Northern Boulevard for ten miles (?) or so.
Likewise, the few times I've ridden the 20 to or from Hicksville, there's great speed on 25A east of Greenvale (even with that quick detour through Post) and 107. After the Jericho overpass, of course the heavy traffic sets in.
The 27 also looks like it moves very fast along Glen Cove (south of Greenvale), Harbor Hill and Roslyn Roads. The latter is nicely rural between the Northern State overpass and Hillside- unusual for so close to Queens.
Both times I've ridden the 25 from Great Neck to Franklin Square, it was very slow and frustrating, given the roundabout routing off NHP along Marcus, Lakeville/LIJ and Union back to NHP at virtually the same intersection. The bus also went into several of the office complexes. The lights at Hillside and Jericho are very long, with long backups and the need to wait through several cycles. Getting stopped at both LIRR crossings along NHP didn't help either.
You're not missing much with the 31/32. They tend to get bogged down in traffic in the Five Towns and Lynbrook, although the pace picks up nicely along Hempstead Avenue through Malverne and West Hempstead.
The 79 looks like it must go very fast along Manetto, Woodbury and Jericho- except during rush hours when all the office parks are letting out. Bad connections east of Hicksville and at the 110 Mall (how most Long Islanders refer to the Walt Whitman mall) have kept me from riding it. It's too long of a walk through a rather seedy looking neighborhood along New York Avenue from Jericho to the LIRR.
The 2 seems to have a very confusing service pattern. In rush hours it duplicates the 6 from Jamaica to Elmont, then turns south on Meacham towards Valley Stream. Off hours, it operates as a shuttle from Hempstead Turnpike south. But unlike the 1 and 3 shuttles, which terminate off-hours at the Turnpike (at Elmont Road and Franklin Avenue respectively), the 2 continues due north on Covert to Tulip, by Sewhanaka HS at the confluence of Floral Park, Elmont and Stewart Manor. It's hard to tell if Covert has any rush hour service.
Tell me this: Does the 80 still operate through Bethpage on Stewart Avenue? The official LIRR map on the back of the official subway map does not indicate any bus connection at Bethpage station. But the latest LI BUS map (from 1995!)I have still has the 80 on Stewart and 81 on Hicksville Road.
Limited schedules have kept me from riding the 57/58 Great Neck loop. It looks very incongruous seeing buses running on those posh streets in the Estates and Kings Point. The route probably owes its existence to its serving the Merchant Marine Academy, which gives the boys a way to get off the base and into Great Neck for some R & R. We used to see many uniformed personnel in the defunct Bennigan's that was in the shopping center by the station.
The 33 was a nice run, wasn't it? When we took the trip on it a year ago, it was hard to believe we were still on Long Island. All that was missing was palm trees.
While you are correct about the seediness of Route 110 from Walt Whitman Mall to the LIRR Huntington Station, you could take Suffolk Transit's S-1 on your route instead of walking. Its about a ten minute ride or you could take the HART BUS Depot Road Loop bus that departs on the hour from the mall and stops at the station. You'll get about a 15 minute ride on some of the streets that parallel Rte 110 on the east or if you have time take the opposite loop ----Oakwood Road bus---you'll get to the station in about 45 minutes but you will get a tour of Huntington Village with all its shops, Huntington Hospital, Hecksher Park and some of the surronding residential neighborhoods.
i like the N4,6,20,31/32,N55,N79.the rides on those buses are suberb.
lets see SCT ive been on the S54,56,58.hopefully i'll add the S42,45,3D,and the S62 to my list soon.
for Suffolk Transit, the only lines ive been on are the S1,S23 and S29.
So nice to hear somebody compliment Long Island Bus for a change instead of the usual whining and crying that at least one bustalker does all the time.
BIG AL
The reason he hasn't replied yet is because his bus broke down, and he has to walk from Flushing to Glen Cove in 4 feet of snow, with 40 pounds of laundry on his back to tell us about it.
LOL!
Yes, 40 lbs of laundry plus Chinese food embellished with other fast food high calorie high cholesterol delights, plus a tape recorder or notebook to permanently record the terrible things that happen to him each day on LI Bus.
....while trying to dodge the rif-raf at the malls because all the buses coming up to them had crappy Cummings engines that were too slow to get over the railroad tracks where the trains pick up the prostitutes that look at him while going to Main St, in Flushing Queens.
BIG AL
LOL! That's true!
Hey it's not LI Bus but the North shore.
Even cars have trouble up here.
It's refreshing to hear a positive comment about the LIBUS, but remember, that was his first time and he's not a daily commuter or someone that does not have a car to get around on short notice. I am really hoping that Tom Suozzi, the new Nassau County Exective, will eventually sit down with the MTA Board to really discuss to REAL future of the LIBUS and the role it plays in the daily lives of the county residents. We need a "pro-transit" person to really convince resident to use the bus system, but more has to be done in the more frequent service and more buses on heavily used routes. Then you can use TV ads to publicize the advantages of using the LIBUS as opposed to to using cars...in otherwords.."leave the driving to us, LIBUS."
Also it's about designing roads better. The right lane should be a bus lane, and certain roads need improvement for buses. There are many tight turns on the north shore, and these intersections could be easily widened. FOR INSTANCE, take Roslyn road at Lincoln avenue. The intersection could easily be widened, but a tree and little field would have to be destroyed. Now most of us sane thinkers would just add a lane there and be done with it. BUT, the Village of Roslyn finds that the good of trees is more important than the good of people, so there's a traffic jam there every day and buses that are turning right (N27 HEMPSTEAD) onto Roslyn road have to make very sharp manuevers to get onto Roslyn road.
NORTHERN BLVD (25A) is another example of poor planning. There are no right turn lanes and no shoulders in alot of spots, making it difficult for buses to stop, and causing extra traffic (by casuing right turners to wait at the red light). What I'd do, is widen Northern Blvd, adding an extra lane, and a bus only lane in certain spots. All intersections would have right turn lanes.
Also the traffic light timing is currently AWFUL. When one lights turned green, the light behind it turns RED. This has to be fixed.
So you see, while it may SOUND like I blame LI Bus, I am not. Most of the problems I'm having are due to the North Shore's terrible traffic conditions, which LI Bus is merely at the mercy of.
When you hear about my problems on LI Bus, where are they? They're on the north shore like 98% of the time. I never have problems on the south shore and central Nassau.
As one LI Bus driver put it when his bus had trouble in Roslyn
"I just don't get this, everything is fine then I come up to the North Shore and my bus starts overheating"
I agree with you on some accounts, having lived on the North Shore since childhood, that some routes are not made for bus travel. Northen Blvd will probably not get widen in my lifetime. Better traffic light management is needed all around, from the county line to as far Glen Cove Road. As far as the buses themselves, the issue really is GET RID OF ALL SLOW BUSES and replace them with sleek, efficient, and FAST ETBs. Why waste time sitting behind an new bus that can't deal with the hills on the North Shore? An ETB can cruise through traffic like in does in San Francisco and glide up the hills too.
As far as the narrow streets in Roslyn, the county executive needs to step in and chat with village officals about widening those intersections. Killing trees is would not so sad, since they had to kill many trees and demolish houses near Roslyn Road and the LIE to make way for the widening of the LIE for the HOV lane.
Yup on the south shore riding LI Bus is great. Today I made excellent time with LI Bus, for a quick trip to Levittown. The buses down on Hempstead turnpike run every 10 minutes. I took the 74 from Hicksvile both ways, making great time. I managed to get from my place in Sea Cliff to Levittown in less than 2 hours, which is pretty good for the bus. Leaving Sea Cliff at 1:32pm I got off at Roslyn from the N21, and waited 30 minutes for a Hicksvile bound N20. That was the only bus that I had today that was running late, but after Greenvale we made up the time quickly (not much traffic).
The 74 ride to Levittown (by the Nassau Mall) from Hicksville is only about 8 minutes.
Going back was even faster, only 5 minutes!
So yes, on the "south shore" the buses move well, but if you ever get a chance to ride the N20 or 21 between Flushing and Roslyn, you'll see the traffic on 25a can be terrible.
The automated announcement system works very well, much better than the R142/3 automated announcements and LIRR.
Okay, this is a long shot but here it goes. My Dad is a huge NY Post reader and he had a stack of papers for a whole year before getting rid of them. One of the papers have an article about NYCTA buses taking up to lanes of traffic (A Manhattan Story...obviously). The front page shows bus #4763 running a red light on Park Av....YES I'M VERY SURE IT WAS BUS #4763 in Manhattan (I know, that was weird for that bus to be in that part of Manattan). BTW, the traffic light in the middle of the street made me realize it was Park Av. I saved the article before my Momther threw it away...long story. Anyway, here's my question: does any have that article saved somewhere? A better question: does anybody know what I'm talking about? LOL! I'm just curious because I wanted to know something in the article about a pic of a GMC New Look Bus. That's all. Thanks!
go to the library you`ll find it there
It just has NY Times and Newsweek. But thanks anyway!
I was at your website and I saw th SEPTA page. Here's my question: what new Low Floor Buses is Philadelphia getting?
The planned order for 300 new low floor buses has not yet been awarded, but from what I've been hearing through the grapevine, New Flyer is the most likely candidate.
Wow, the same model as the #5400-5799 series? How interesting! Pretty soon, SEPTA will be nothing but New Flyer!
That's entirely possible. Or, there's an outside shot that SEPTA could go with the New Flyer Invero (if it's still offered).
i think septa should go with neoplan .i soppose their fleet numbers are 5701-6000
This morning at about 8:45 a Grayline double decker wandered into the PABT and got stuck on the 3rd floor. He made it almost to the end of the unloading platform before he was stopped. I don't know what kind of damage he did to the building but when I returned to Ny at 10:40 am they had rerouted all inbound buses on the exit roadway and sent them through gate 200 in the wrong direction! Once you went through gate 200 you had to turn around either in the new building ( 300 gates ) or cut it hard through the exit lane. Buses that used gate 200 were sent to gate 201 , the 99s ( coach USA ) , the 126 Hoboken and the 127 Ridgefield had to wait for police to stop traffic so they could access their platforms.
T.Beverett
That MUST have been rough! Did they go up Dyre Av to 41st St then up that ramp?
He was deadheading from NJ so he just followed all of the NJT buses out of the tunnel and upstairs.
T.Beverett
This morning, on the Gowanus, I saw 2 X8s. The thing about these 2 buses is that they were Orion Suburbans # 132 & 127.
Now Yukon has enough MCIs, so why Have 2 Orions on a crowded route? If MCIs broke down, there should be plenty to spare at Yukon or borrow from CAS.
guess even with almost 100 new mci buses in service there are still not enough. sld always complained when orions were put on x8. that is sld at tysons lane since bus only seats 42. were there standees?
Did the MTA ever have a Bronx to Manhatten express route? It seems like a good idea considering that there are many neighborhoods which are starved of public transportation and local busses run at maximum capacity carrying people to the subway station just so that they can get to manhatten. Also, NYCT express service can supplement an area with infrequent (or frequent and crouded) LLE and NYBS service. Also different destinations than LLE and NYBS could draw people to these new lines. Bronx to queens express service would also be a good idea.
Any thoughts?
[Did the MTA ever have a Bronx to Manhattan express route?]
Yup. That was the old X61 out of Kingsbridge Depot. From Broadway & 262nd Street, it made pick-ups along Broadway, Van Cortlandt Park South, Van Cortlandt Avenue West, and Sedgwick Avenue (basically, following the BxM3), then ran non-stop to City Hall and looped around lower Manhattan.
It was killed in the late 1980's due to (1) VERY low ridership and (2) bus restrictions on the FDR Drive which added 30+ minutes to the trip. In its place, NYCDOT added a Midtown pick-up stop on the BxM18 (Riverdale-Wall Street) to receive riders transfering from the BxM3, BxM4A/B, and BxM11.
Perhaps the TA could create an express route in a different area of the Bronx see: Northeast bronx
I say just make more LIMITED buses instead of express, the cost is cheaper to those that ride them.
The LIMITED is a sham. It goes no faster than the local. see: BX12 BAY PLAZA...LIMITED... does not pass local BX12 PELHAM BAY,,, due to extremely long dwell time and traffic.
What about Bx41 LIMITED and Bx55, more people take those than Bx41 and Bx15 LOCAL. The 41 LTD and the 55 usually go faster than their local counterparts
Yes, it did: X61 Riverdale/Manhattan Express. It was discontinued years ago -- with the improved condition of the subway (#1/#9), ridership dropped precipitously.
David
HELLO TO EVERYONE.Just to let you know that the new 2002 Beeline bus maps are out!! And i found a spanish copy which i think is cool!!! You can get a copy at the white plains tran center.....JOHN R QSC
What's the phone number so I can called them to get one sent to my house on LI?
The phone # is 914-813-7777.......John R QSC
Thanks!
YOU GOT IT ANY TIME!!!!!...John R QSC
The Following Is A Rant from a passengers point of view:
< RANT BEGINS NOW>
Why do B\O's tolerate the following:
People who insist on folding up the stroller and taking out the kid ONLY when the bus arrives at the stop and opens the doors. Yes they did see the bus coming and were the only ones at the stop. Today some group of people delayed the bus 7 minutes by doing just that and the B\O just patiently waited ( Not saying a word).
People who ring the bell FOR THE STOP AS THE BUS GOES THROUGH THE STOP. They force the Bus Operator to haul the bus to a stop quickly and almost make people to fall out of their seats. Why cant they adopt the Bee-Line attitude of " Tough, You should have rang the bell ealier and i'm going to the next stop".
People who take their sweet time when approaching the bus while yapping away on a cell phone. TA drivers wait for them, Bee- Line's approach " Screw you, I'm outta here"
People who smoke on the bus. Happens alot on the bus. The drivers usually politely say " Please , no smoking on the bus" , if anything at all. Today not only did the B\O say nothing but this guy smokes 3 cigarettes and even has the nerve to put them out on the seats. My solution is to force TA B\O's to throw smokers off the bus. Smoking is a health hazard and sumone could have an asthma attack and die.
Wow never had smokers on LI Bus, ever. Nor on MTA buses. But there once a guy on the L train who was smoking.
As far as the other stuff, people should be ready to board when the bus comes. And if were up to me cell phones would be banned on buses.
>>> if were up to me cell phones would be banned on buses. <<<
Why? I have used mine several times to call the central bus information number to learn what would be the best place to transfer to reach my final destination, and regularly used it call someone to meet me at the final terminal when I have an accurate estimated time of arrival on a trip that varies between three and four hours depending on how well I make my intermediate connections.
Tom
Heres my point of view on your questions:
Why do B\O's tolerate the following:
People who insist on folding up the stroller and taking out the kid ONLY when the bus arrives at the stop and opens the doors. Yes they did see the bus coming and were the only ones at the stop. Today some group of people delayed the bus 7 minutes by doing just that and the B\O just patiently waited ( Not saying a word).
...........I get paid by the minute.
People who ring the bell FOR THE STOP AS THE BUS GOES THROUGH THE STOP. They force the Bus Operator to haul the bus to a stop quickly and almost make people to fall out of their seats. Why cant they adopt the Bee-Line attitude of " Tough, You should have rang the bell ealier and i'm going to the next stop".
...........Ring the bell or ride on especially since I announce every stop ahead of time.
People who take their sweet time when approaching the bus while yapping away on a cell phone. TA drivers wait for them, Bee- Line's approach " Screw you, I'm outta here"
............If your not in the stop you will get left.
People who smoke on the bus. Happens alot on the bus. The drivers usually politely say " Please , no smoking on the bus" , if anything at all. Today not only did the B\O say nothing but this guy smokes 3 cigarettes and even has the nerve to put them out on the seats. My solution is to force TA B\O's to throw smokers off the bus. Smoking is a health hazard and sumone could have an asthma attack and die.
............Only I am allowed to smoke on the bus.
Peace,
Kevin
no one not even the driver is supposed to smoke on the bus. you should have taken drivers badge number and reported him for failing to admonish the smoker.
no one not even the driver is supposed to smoke on the bus. you should have taken drivers badge number and reported him for failing to admonish the smoker.
.........just like nobody is supposed to eat or drink on the bus. At my garage they dont make a big deal about us smoking unless someone calls and complains that the bus smelled like smoke. When you dont get out of the seat for 8 and a half hours you will light one up whenever you get the chance (of course not with people on board).
Peace,
Kevin
From what I read up in an MTA Bus Driver's Hand Book, as far as passengers eating on the bus, all the driver can do is ask the passenger to please not eat on the bus, from what the book says its against the law for a driver to force a passenger from eating and drinking unless the passnger is drinking alcohol then the driver can kick the passenger off the bus. I don't know where this law came from about that a passenger can eat and drink on the bus, most people when they eat or drink on the bus, they leave their garbage and make the bus a complete mess.
Jason
Last I checked, eating and drinking were allowed, though discouraged, on NYCT buses and subways. (Littering, of course, is not. Some people, unfortunately, are slobs.)
Smoking is bad for you. Like so totally bad.
So is breathing all the diesel fumes everyday.
Diesel fumes??? What diesel fumes do you speak of? I Havent smelled diesel fumes since the days of the RTS
Stick your nose on the exhaust pipe of an MCI Classic and tell me what you smell. Now imagine 88 buses running at the same time.
Perhaps they should be repowered like those (damned) RTS'.
>>>At my garage they dont make a big deal about us smoking unless someone calls and complains that the bus smelled like smoke.<<<
I'm sure they will now.
Peace,
ANDEE
..........Thanks ANDEE!
Peace,
Kevin
I follow the same rules!
However on the ringing the bell problem, I ride 1 and a half stop before letting the person off. Then I make sure to let them know, don't do this shit on my bus again!
On the sweet time problem, If you are sitting and I'm approaching and you are not giving me any sign to the fact you want the bus, I keep going without a single effort to brake. And don't be running down the block, out your door, from a car, out the damn sewer, you will REALLY get left!
My even biggest pet peeve and since I have to handle cash, is people that give me folded up dollar bills or big ass bills like my bus says "The Red & Tan Lines National Bank" on the friggin' side, I tell people who do this, this is your first and last time, it happens again, you'll be waiting for the next bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
The Following Is A Rant from a passengers point of view:
< RANT BEGINS NOW>
Why do B\O's tolerate the following:
People who insist on folding up the stroller and taking out the kid ONLY when the bus arrives at the stop and opens the doors. Yes they did see the bus coming and were the only ones at the stop. Today some group of people delayed the bus 7 minutes by doing just that and the B\O just patiently waited ( Not saying a word).
People who ring the bell FOR THE STOP AS THE BUS GOES THROUGH THE STOP. They force the Bus Operator to haul the bus to a stop quickly and almost make people to fall out of their seats. Why cant they adopt the Bee-Line attitude of " Tough, You should have rang the bell ealier and i'm going to the next stop".
People who take their sweet time when approaching the bus while yapping away on a cell phone. TA drivers wait for them, Bee- Line's approach " Screw you, I'm outta here"
People who smoke on the bus. Happens alot on the bus. The drivers usually politely say " Please , no smoking on the bus" , if anything at all. Today not only did the B\O say nothing but this guy smokes 3 cigarettes and even has the nerve to put them out on the seats. My solution is to force TA B\O's to throw smokers off the bus. Smoking is a health hazard and sumone could have an asthma attack and die.
Any Thoughts? :)
I wish more passengers had the kind of vision that you do! You just explained the feelings of many driver in NJ and NY. A lot of us at NJT have to take this crap because if we voice our feelings then someone calls customer service and calls us rude. Then we get written up an lectured about the passengeers needs. I might not yell at people to make them rush but my patience wears thin and I start pumping the brake. Does anyone other driver do this?
T.Beverett
Two words.
Hell Yeah!
That air brake is God's gift to B/O stress relief.
People who do not have exact change or empty metrocards. It irks me to no end when Operators allow people without fare to board and then harassing passengers by interupting their thoughts by shouting " ANYBODY GOT CHANGE FOR A DOLLAR". These people should be thrown off the bus IMMEDIATELY because they knew damn well dollars are not accepted on TA busses before boarding, and they should have made sure that they had sufficient fare before boarding.
And then ya have those people that try like 10 different Metrocards but only the last one works. It's like they know there's nothing on them but they try anyway.
Heres Mine
The people who wait at the corner to see if the bus is coming to make the right turn into the bus stop and when they see it start waving and running to the stop .Nine out of ten times i won .
Why aren't my captions showing up?
People who exit through the front door for no good reason when others are waiting to board.
People who decide to get off as the bus is about to pull out. (This happpened three or four times on short ride I took last month.)
People who don't try to move all the way to the back after boarding a crowded bus.
On a mildly cool day, people who get on a bus with lots of empty seats, sit down near the one open window, and close it (or whine to me that it's cold).
I always try to exit the rear. Sometimes driver's don't open the rear door and I gotta yell "back door". Most likely it's a malfunction in the Orions.
When I was I B/O, if the person rang the bell to late, I just keep on doing. It was not worth slaming on my brake and posable haveing some one fall and get heart.
People who take there damw sweet time getting onto the bus because there doing something, I close my doors and take off. I closed door in people faces more then I can count because they wanted to finish the cigurets. If they want to finish they will have untill the next bus to do so.
People who smoke on the bus, I stop the bus go on the PA and tell them to put it you or the bus won't move, this gets teh other pasages to say something to them. The worst is when I woman is putting on nail polish and it stink up the hole bus. I can get very sick of the smell. I tell them that this not the place to do it and if they don't stop the bus won't move because I am getting sick from it.
As for people who fold up the stroller. I can under stand folding it up as the bus get to the stop. Even before I had my daugter I would ride with a friend with his kid. It is sometime not easy to control the kid and hold the stroller while at the bus stop. What borther me was since I drove out of Jackie Gleason my last 16 mouths of driving was the people tring to get on the low floors with the stroller open all because there was no steps to clime up, I told the the same rules are used on the type of bus as on the other buses. The Stroller MUST be folded before getting on the bus.
Robert(forer B/O Jackie Gleason)
not only low floors but all buses these lazy people try to get on without folding up stroller.
Keep in mind, the TA Rulebook contradicts any information you'll receive from the "Bus Customer Relations Center", which is simply, politically-correct nonsense.
Here are official policy regulations, and my own experiences below:
Posted by Flyerlover on Tue Jul 16 15:34:23 2002
The Following Is A Rant from a passengers point of view:
Why do B\O's tolerate the following:
People who insist on folding up the stroller and taking out the kid ONLY when the bus arrives at the stop and opens the doors. Yes they did see the bus coming and were the only ones at the stop. Today some group of people delayed the bus 7 minutes by doing just that and the B\O just patiently waited ( Not saying a word).
Waiting at a bus stop for any reason is an extended courtesy. If you're not prepared to board the bus when it approaches, you cannot expect it to wait for you when you're ready.
I will wait once, and expect a "thank-you". I will suggest that the individual extend the same courtesy to other passengers that I've extended to them by being prepared to board next time. There is no second time.
People who ring the bell FOR THE STOP AS THE BUS GOES THROUGH THE STOP. They force the Bus Operator to haul the bus to a stop quickly and almost make people to fall out of their seats. Why cant they adopt the Bee-Line attitude of " Tough, You should have rang the bell ealier and i'm going to the next stop".
In every public ad campaign announcement I've seen, the NYCTA advises riders to ring the bell as soon as practical, or with "enough time to safely bring the bus to a stop", or after the bus has passed the preceding stop. Two bus lengths are required, at minimum to make a bus stop.
Firstly, nobody can force me to stop my bus. I will never abruptly stop my bus and cause injury to anyone. I will not violate the rules by stopping my bus outside a designated bus stop. I will take that person to the next bus stop where they may alight safely. It isn't my problem if you're not paying attention to where you're going. If you've not signaled to alight before 80 feet of the bus stop, you're going to the next bus stop (unless "Request-A-Stop is in effect, where I may allow you to alight depending on your attitude...)
People who take their sweet time when approaching the bus while yapping away on a cell phone. TA drivers wait for them, Bee- Line's approach " Screw you, I'm outta here"
Same as above.
People who smoke on the bus. Happens alot on the bus. The drivers usually politely say " Please , no smoking on the bus" , if anything at all. Today not only did the B\O say nothing but this guy smokes 3 cigarettes and even has the nerve to put them out on the seats. My solution is to force TA B\O's to throw smokers off the bus. Smoking is a health hazard and sumone could have an asthma attack and die.
Not only is this a rule violation, it's also an infraction of the NYS Penal Code.
The last time 2 kids tried it, they walked home. I'll tolerate some nonsense, but smoking isn't among of them.
This is relly neat farebox. It can take MetroCards,Tokens,Coins,and $1 Bills.
http://www.gfigenfare.com/odyssey3.htm
The Cubic farebox that NYCT and DOT use is capable of doing all the things that were mentioned (a bill acceptor would have to be added, but it is an available option that, if memory serves, WAS included on NY Bus Service's fareboxes).
David
They didn't want it because their system is set up to vaccuum coins from the farebox at the end of the day. They have no provision in their money collection to handle paper currency.
The TA version of the Cubic farebox sits on top of a GFI base !
Cubic sharpened their pencil more then GFI did, so they won the bid.
That farebox is the worst piece of shit ever designed!!!!
Sure it takes all the fare media mentioned....BUT....it does it slower than molasses in January. Youhave to drop coins in ONE AT A TIME. Bills? If it isn't a nice, fresh printed, ironed and starched note, it rejects it. I've seen people try 12 times to get a bill to work and it doesn't go in no matter what you do to it. Free ride time....
The agency where I drive just put them into our fleet. results? Everyoen runs 3-8 minutes late because of the delays of passengers buying their day passes, trying to get their money to work, etc.
Oh sure, if everyone buys monthly passes it speeds things up. But that's a transit agency's dream. Not reality.
Recently in Bklyn I saw an RTS (presumabely a former TA) parked by a firehouse. It had FDNY on it. It looked like a GM, I'm not sure what it was used for , and it had it's doors padlocked.
Anyone have info on this?
That was 1981 GM RTS #1384.
Jason
www.transitalk.org
That's probably the bus on Rockaway Pkwy near Glenwood Rd., that is parked in front of the firehouse. It's been there for a while. I meant to put up a post on bustalk about it a few weeks ago but forgot (please forgive me.) I have never seen it used but my guess is it's mainly used for hauling around extra FDNY personnel that are needed for special assignments.
BIG AL
It is also used to transport firefighters to large funerals for their fallen brethren.
This is former 1981 GMC RTS #1384 at Rockway Parkway and Glennwood Road. I took this pic in June. Enjoy.......
Peace,
Kevin
Great Pic....Would have looked even better in those colors if it were a slopeback.
As BMTman pointed out the bus is used for transporting NY's Bravest to funerals of their fallen comrades. Sadly, I am sure, that bus has had to work an excessive amount of overtime in the last 10 months. May all those fallen heros rest in peace....We will not forget you.
Very cool. I'd love to do a model of this bus.
-Fred
Although I am not a modeler, I think its very easy to do if you can make the decals. The other thing you need is a blank Jimson 787 their RTS.
Got that. Two of them. Hmm....the air pressure is up and the wheels are turning in my head....I just might do that. Perhaps there are a few interested parties out there?
It's either for training, or more likely, the health team.
-Hank
That FDNY RTS is most often found parked by the "Friendly Firehouse" on Flatbush Avenue near Fillmore, but recently has been seen over by the "Canarsie's Bravest" firehouse over by Rockaway Parkway and Farragut Road. The "Friendly Firehouse" has that name because of a big Smiley Face logo that is on the garage door.
Last week I saw an FDNY Rts bus parked on Cortelyou Road near ladder 147, the truck with a back seat driver.
That's a Tiller - needs someone to turn the rear wheel the opposite direction in turns, like the rear wheel of the MCIs
In most cases the tiller steers in the opposite direction of the driver to shorten the turning radius on a corner. However when the intersection is an "S" shape then the tiller steers in the same direction of the driver so the rig can slide over to the right or left.
The FDNY has a special school JUST for tiller drivers. Just from the seat, it's not as easy as it looks.
-Hank
I understand that the city is trying to phase them out. Ladder 331 on Cross Bay Blvd. had one because the back of the firehouse is built on pilings. They recently got a twin rear axle turntable ladder truck which is shorter and the floor can hold the weight. In fact, there is enough room now that a ping-pong table was placed in the excess space.
Of course Chinatown, Little Italy and other older areas with narrow streets will probably always have to keep the tiller rigs because of the smaller turning radius of the truck.
That would be Ladder 173. Ladder company numbers don't go that high. In Brooklyn and Queens, they run from 101 (Red Hook 'Happy Hookers' up to 173, engine numbers from 201 to 332. Bronx and Manhattan they can duplicate engine numbers from 1 to 61, Engine numbers run from 1 to 97. On Staten Island, there is actually co-ordination, engines 151-160 and ladders 76-80 don't mesh, but Engines 161-167 are quartered with ladders 81-87, respectively.
I assume at one time, there was a system. Brooklyn numbers in the lower 200's are actually the old BFD numbers, +200. There are still a number of BFD houses in everyday use.
FDNY has only 10 tiller trucks in daily service, most in lower Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn.
-Hank
Happy Hookers...LOL! Do they ever go to Washington?
Speaking of, I need to do that...I love riding the Flxes at WMATA!
-Fred
I think that the Q53 should be taken over to Green Bus Lines. The deopt is easy for Green in the Rockaways(where the Q53 does end) and this would get the city to order newer buses for Green to put on this line. It make perfect sense if Triboro, Jamaica and Queens Surface go under. I was thinking of the TA operating the Q111 and Q113 but i see private vans operating on those lines. All this money these companies are losing. what a waste.
My friend, Green just happens to be one of the worst, if not the worst of all the privates. BLX was unfortunate to utilize the Q60 for many years (1963-1973). BLX is recalling a joke -'why is the Q60 like banannas?' Because they both come in bunches. BLX also recalls the Q60 had a nickel zone ticket if you remained on the bus past Alexander's (63rd Drive). Going west to NYC, the zone stop was Broadway/Queens Blvd (Strauss). The Q60 had no schedule. BLX recalls a b/o from Green in the late 70's who allowed BLX to play basketball at the Y on Northern & Bowne. He himself said that they turned short whenever they wanted. Get it, no one cared. Green equipment to this day always looks battered. Compare that to the fine Triboro company (like Green, part of the Cooper family). BLX was forced by those beyond the control of BLX to ride the Q18 to High School and the Q53 to the beach (Rockaway, like in the Ramones song). BLX rates Triboro service of all those years as on schedule and equipment maintined to the value of how BLX requires. The motto of Green is the same as 35 years ago by their logo (Ride The Green Lines). The logo hasn't changed and the service hasn't changed. It stinks! Those that fault BLX for speaking the truth should explore their inner feelings to determine the real cause of their emotions. BLX spells all words correctly, BLX doesn't use profanity. BLX is real. BLX loves you all.
My own opinion is that Green Bus Lines has gotten a little better in recent years, after keeping service and bus cleanliness at the same low level you remember more than 30 years ago. The Orion V's are generally kept in pretty decent condition, inside and out. Triboro, on the other hand, has really gone downhill in recent years. It is a close call to whether Triboro has actually gotten worse than Green in service and bus cleanliness.
Well Green's Orions are in better shape. But if ya don't get one, it's not a fun ride.
I agree, most of Green's buses, especially the GMC RTS's almost never have A/C and are real rattletraps. And they always bunch up! Whenver I'm in the Rockaways I always two Q22's right after each other.
On the other end, Queens Surface is one of the best of the privates, buses always have a/c and run good.
Granted, the service on the Jamaica Buses Q113 bus is not the best, I have always found the maintenance of their fleet among the best of NYC. As far as the Green Bus Lines, their should be a law against what they call buses, as well as bus service-especially in the Rockaways. You mentioned that the drivers do what they want as far as bus scheduling-believe me that is 100% truth.
For example, the Q21A (New Lots Av, Bklyn to Far Rockaway) used to run right by my house. That bus ran so infrequently that people were forced to ride the Q22, which was no picnic either.
The bus did not run on any schedule of any kind. I would as much as see a bus approach my stop at 8:32 am, for example, assume that there would be a bus at that stop at or around 8:32 am every weekday, only to find out that the next day the bus didn't arrive until 9:04 am and the day after that, never showed up.
Sometimes the drivers would short turn on the Q21A as well as the Q22 and also decide to take a different route than scheduled and didn't give advanced notice to the passengers.
The decision of who operates which route lies, at least for now, in the hands of the New York City Department of Transportation. Thus far, DOT has not seen fit to reassign any franchise/contract from one company to another.
Today at Bowling Green i saw Gillig 30 foot operating for Academy. Why doenst Academy operate service in Queens if Jamaica,Triboro and Queens Surface go under. Also, i saw #9336 and #9332 on the X29 line. If Ulmer Park has more MCI buses to cover routes, why still put NOVABUSES on the line?
X29-MCI #2795-run 007
[Today at Bowling Green i saw Gillig 30 foot operating for Academy]
I believe Academy got a bunch of ex-Hertz 30-foot Gilligs for use at Newark Airport when the monorail (now AirTrain) was out of service a year or two back. I am guessing that is what you saw.
up has about 13 new mci buses in service so i dont know, but i can tell you some obese b/o dont fit behind the wheel of an mci. believe it or not this may be the reason for the nova and orion buses still seeing express service.
When WMATA still had the Flxible new looks I had the pleasure of having both an 8V71 and a 6V71 engine bus in front of my house. Now if the bus was on time, it should have passed in front of my house at about 4:40 PM. The 8V bus usually passed on time or sometimes a little early and the 6V engined bus usually passed ten to sometimes even twenty minutes late. One time the 6V71 engined bus passed at fifteen minutes after 5PM. It was nice to see buses pass in front of my house because you got to see a new bus in service or a rehabbed bus just out of the shop. Unfortunately Metro decided to change the route, so it now does not run in front of my house, DRATS!! Now all I see the "The Bus ( a county run bus operation) running in front of my house. Let me tell you, looking at a Champion ain't no substitute for a Flxible Metro. Thank god there is still the buses that run to the Redskins stadium, looking forward to see those new Neoplans as well as the C40LF's running up and down the street.
Ugh..Champions? Not exactly a career move there. I'd love to have the bus stop in front of where I live; I used to be on a bus line but now I live out in B.F.E., where I have to walk a mile down the road, catch the paratransit, and ride into Salem, where I have to wait 15-20 minutes for the TA bus that goes into Roanoke.
I miss living on a bus line!
-Fred
"I have to walk a mile down the road"
That's a good walk for me! :)
It sure is; if nothing else, at least I'm keeping in shape! :)
-F.
Once in a while I get to see a Thomas SLF in service or a Thomas high floor (the better looking one). I will really look forward to when Redskin season starts and all those shuttle buses running up and down past my house.
I like the Thomas SLFs; they look really neat. We have two here in Roanoke that are used for the Downtown Express. With their unique paint schemes, they look better than the Gilligs used for regular transit service!
-F.
I like them too. The Bus have fifteen total, with ten delivered this year. They also had about four or five Thomas 40' high floors delivered and an unsure amount of Startrans one door. The SLF's are the best of the fleet with the Thomas high floors second. The sixteen Champions bought five or six years ago are rolling junk on wheels and when the operators use the turn signals, they make an annoying screeching sound, I am pretty sure even the drivers can't stand them. Two of them were destroyed when some nut set fire in The Bus's yard, killing them along with one 30' Thomas high floor and one 35' Gillig Phantom, he or she has never been caught. Another strange thing I have seen with the Champions is when I was riding one, the driver's seat was literally bouncing, over a bump, bouncy, bouncy, over a pot hole bouncy, bouncy. I am pretty sure when the driver drove that thing back to the garage he had to be treated for motion sickness bouncing in that thing for all of those trips. I just hope they never return to buying these things and buy more Thomas'. They are the cream of the crop as far as The Bus is concerned.
Sounds neat; I really like the Thomas SLF the best. Never was big on their high floor models, but then again, you never know what they will come up with next.
-F.
For those who think Suffolk Transit doesn't operate on Sunday-well, you are complete mistaken. Suffolk Transit operates the S47 route on Sundays between Babylon and Mastic Beach. It is the only line operating on Sundays.
Yeah because it's the Summertime! Summer Service on the S47! It would not surprise me that those people from Fire Island complained about it not running.
S47? a route with my favorite number?how come i never heard of this,there isnt a schedule for it.
ok i take that back,but that IS the only one if only for the summer time.
Actually, there is the S94 from Montauk to the Montauk Lighthouse, I believe. Also, there's the S74 which use to be a summer route, now it's an ALL TIMES route.
Must be nice. We haven't had Sunday service in Roanoke since 1978.
-F.
i was wondering, what are the engine types for the varoius models in the metrobus fleet?
1.flxible metro b
2.metro-d
3.metro-e
4.the three generations of orion V's
(96XX)
(42XX-43XX-44XX)
(21XX-22XX)
5.orion VI and II
6.nabi 416
7.nfi d40lf
8.MAN artics
also:
were any of the 96XX orion V's repowered b/c i recall hearing some with what sound like dd series 50's
has anyone seen 96XX orion V's with the tailpipe removed and that area sealed off? i also recall seeing one of these orion V's looking like this
1) All of the METRO "B" from the 8700 to the 9200s have Detroit Diesel Series 92 DDEC with Allison VR-731 Transmissions. The 9300 and 9400 have Cummins L-10 CELECT with Voith D863 ADR Transmissions.
2) METRO "D" 9700s have Cummins L-10 CELECT with Voith D863.3 ADR Transmissions. METRO "D" 9800-9822 have Cummins M-11E CELECT with Voith D863.3 ADR Transmissions. METRO "D" 9823-9835 have Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC with Voith D863.3 ADR Transmissions.
3) All METRO "E" have Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC with Allison VR-731RH Transmissions.
4) The Orion V 9600s have Detroit Diesel Series 92 DDEC with Allison HTB-748 Transmissions. The Orion V 3900s, 4000, 2100 and 2200s all Have Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC with Allison World B500R Tranmissions
5) The Orion VI 2100s have the same engine/tranny combo (DDC Series 50 to Allison B500R). The Orion II have Cummins B5.9 with Allison Transmissions (Don't know the specific model).
6) The NABI Model 436 Articulateds have Cummins M-11E CELECT with ZF Ecomat HP-600 Transmissions.
7) The New Flyer C40LF have Detroit Diesel Series 50G with Allison World B500R Transmissions.
8) The MAN SG-310 Articulated have MAN Flat Engines and Transmissions.
To my knowledge, none of the 1992 Orion V (9200s) have been repowered. There may have been some pipe experiments but I D K about repowers.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I thought the WMATA web site said that the engines on the New Flyers were Cummins ISC 8.3L rather than DDC 50G.
Actually, 8971-8975 and 9251-9275 have L10 engines and 9652 has a different engine (might be a Cummins 8.3) but I am not sure.
I forgot about that early METRO-B demos with the L-10, I remember riding 8974 everyday to school when I was living in Montgomery County!
Regards
Trevor Logan
I wonder what type of engine/trannys the Neoplan artics will have. If history is any prediction they won't be Detroit Diesels.
In the late '90s I used to be able to take Route 74 to Bayonne, which was operated by a non-NJ Transit carrier - unfortunately the name of the company escapes me. Recently I went to Bayonne by light rail and then tried to go to Journal Square by bus - but the route was gone. Only the NJ Transit 81 to Exchange Place and a local bus on Broadway remain. Was the route dropped or did the entire company close?
from staten island you may take routes 144 or 122 to bayonne operated by red and tan lines,now coach usa.
Well from Bayonne to Journal Square, You also have the number 10 bus. This bus runs all the way down Kennedy Blvd into Bayonne. This line was once operated by Drogin bus company, but is now run by Coach Usa or Red and Tan. That is the only bus that I am aware that goes down there, you also have the Bergen Ave bus which runs to the Bayonne border, from there you can just jump on the Broadway bus which will take you down Broadway in Bayonne. I am not familiar with the 74? I never have been NJT 81 line goes to Downtown Jersey City. When was this 74 line around, from where to where did it go?
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I remember the route number correctly. The line ran from Journal Square along Kennedy Blvd., then along Avenue C in Bayonne (I rode it in 1998 and '99). When I was on Avenue C recently, only the 81 was listed on the bus stop signs. I went back to the 34th Street light rail station, and the only bus routes shown on the area map there were the 81 and the Broadway line.
Might have been a number 10 bus that was detoured. I have lived in Jersey City since 1986 and never heard of such a line.
T.Beverett
I have never heard of it either myself, but the only other thing I could think of is one of those real small fleet. Maybe it was that small company United Brothers or whatever weird that is.
Jason
I may have been wrong about the route number. Did the 10 run into Bayonne, and was it cut back recently?
NO WAY! If anything that service, is always up. I always see like 5 Novas at a time going up there. If anything they increased the service, You also have the 99 bus which goes past JSQ but does not stop there, that is also a Red and Tan bus, that bus however goes to New York. But the service has never been cut back.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
The 10 was not cut back from what I see and when it's not running the 99s becomes a local making all pickups and dropoffs. So you have 24 hour service between Journal Square and Bayonne.
T.Beverett
[Recently I went to Bayonne by light rail and then tried to go to Journal Square by bus - but the route was gone. Only the NJ Transit 81 to Exchange Place and a local bus on Broadway remain.]
Doesn't the NJ Transit 81 go to Journal Square before it heads east to Exchange Place? If my memory of that route is correct, you could have taken that bus.
[Doesn't the NJ Transit 81 go to Journal Square before it heads east to Exchange Place? If my memory of that route is correct, you could have taken that bus.]
Sorry about the error. The 81 does NOT go to Journal Square. I got it mixed up with the 80, which goes to Journal Square from Exchange Place but does not go far enough south in Jersey City to reach Bayonne.
I know that the #74 operates between Franklin Avenue-City Subway in Newark to Passaic. I have been on this line. Not sure if it still runs from Franklin Avenue though(at the time, newark City Subway Termintated there).
There is a bus route #10. This goes from the Journal Square Bus Terminal all the way down JFK Boulevard through Bayonne-i think the last stop is 34th Street. The Bus garage is located on Broadway and 54th Street. I havent been there since 2000, and at the time they were operating Flexible Metros and NOVABUSES. Hope this helps.
How do I get to Broadway and 54 St to go see their Garage from NYC?
The number 10 line is a coach USA line operating out the red and tan garage in Jersey city on Tonnelle ave. If you want to see this facility you can take the 125 bus from PABT and get off at Manhattan ave. Then you walk down the hill to Tonnelle and make a short left. During the moring hours Suburban stores buses there for the afternoon rush. The garage on Broadway and 54th street is Bergen Avenue Bus. They operate novas between JSQ and their garage.
T.Beverett
Thanks. Is this aera safe?
...............................LOL....................................
I have taken pictures there, it is ok, You can get some nice shots of Broadway buses there as well as the Bergen Ave's, they pass right in front of the garage. The area is ok, not the greatest. It is on Jersey City Border. I hope you don't have an expensive camera...............LOL
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Manhattan ave is not bad. The walk will be quick because it is downhill. If you get hungry try the mana grill on the corner of Manhattan and tonnelle aves. They make great burgers!
T.Beverett
VERY TRUE! GREAT BURGERS AT A GREAT PRICE.
Tony M.
Can you give the engine/transmission combos on the following bus models?
NABI 416
NEOPLAN AN460
NEW FLYER D40LF
NEOPLAN AN440
ELDORADO
Thanks!
Neoplan AN-440A (8601-8875 series; recently retired): DDC 6V92TA/Allison V730 4 speed
Neoplan AN-440A (3000-3491 series): DDC 6V92TA/ZF 5HP590 5 speed*
NABI 416.08: DDC Series 50/Allison B-300 4 speed
Neoplan AN-460A and New Flyer D40LF: DDC Series 50/Allison B-400 5 speed
ElDorado TransMark RE: ISC 5.9L/Allison B-300 5 speed
* 3414 was retrofit in 1994 with a DDC Series 50 engine and Allison B-300 transmission
the septa neoplan has a zf5hp490(4-speed)
nabi has allision b-400r
neoplan 3414 has ethier a b-400 or a allision htb transmission a transmission used on ddc 50 model before the allison b-400 came out in 95 becouse the bus was retrofit in 94.more likely a b-400r
top speeds
52mph neoplan 8000 series
40mph 3000 series
55mph,and 42 for the overhaul ones.
60,65mph new/neo
52 mph eldorado
Wow - I didn't think any agency would have buses as slow as those at NYCT.
Wayne
Does anyone know if NYCT plans to buy anymore MCI buses since they just completed ordering the last 100 buses for 2002.
If there are plans, what year will NYCT buy more MCI buses & how many more will be brought.
no.
There are no plans to get last 100 MCIs anytime soon
And I Repeat: THERE ARE NO PLANS!
Is because JG doesn't have enough buses?
If a decision were made to extend route B43 to Long Island City, Jackie Gleason Depot (or Fresh Pond, or whatever depot the route were to be assigned to) would be furnished with enough buses to support the extension.
As to why the route isn't being extended to Long Island City, let me turn that around: why SHOULD it? Yes, the route terminates in a somewhat desolate area that isn't terribly far from Long Island City, but another route (B61) that serves the same general area on the routes' northern end goes to Long Island City. Is there demand for two services?
David
BLX has much experience within the confines of Queens. People read the word of BLX but refuse to respond. It's not beacuse BLX speaks in the third person, what about the WWE? 'Can you smell what The Rock is cooking?' BLX is certain you accept that within it's meaning. Well, back to the posting on the B43 as BLX will retain his grammar to that associated to transit issues and life beyond. LIC has not seen the growth that was expected after Citicorp built their tower. Around the artists community (PS 1) there is no need to bring a Brooklyn bus there. These people are a derivative of the 50's and early 60's beatniks (like cool daddy-o). Recall the music and poetry of Be-Bop then and now Hip-Hop. How can that be? As my fellow journeyman David stated, the B61 was extended from the end of the Pulaski Bridge down Jackson Avenue to Queens Blvd. But for whom? It stops alongside a funky looking multi-level parking garage with retail stores (vacant) on street level. BLX states with positive vibes: this would be a waste of resources. David, FLX & Q5 Merrick have no issue with BLX. Others that can't accept the rhetoric of BLX can look for old baseball cards to place on the spokes of their stingray style bike with clothes pins. BLX has spoken, only because the need is there. Peace, out.
Posted by BLX on Wed Jul 17 20:55:34 2002, in response to Why not extend the B43 to LI City?, posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Wed Jul 17 18:09:49 2002.
[some stuff snipped]
"LIC has not seen the growth that was expected after Citicorp built their tower."
When Citicorp built the complex, they had expected the area to be revitalized (or this was the promise made along with other incentives to build there). This never happened, and the drug dealers, hookers and other riff-raff still reign supreme.
Many of the private residences along the adjacent streets are either abandoned or boarded-up and used by squatters.
So, I agree with you regarding the Citicorp building, however even if the area had grown, it's doubtful that the B43, from where it originates, would appropriately service the area anyway.
[more stuff snipped]
"It stops alongside a funky looking multi-level parking garage with retail stores (vacant) on street level."
It also stops at Queens/Queensboro Plaza where a connection to the subway is acheived.
[other stuff snipped]
the b61 was extended to give service to those needing to connect with the q102 and 101(rikers island bus). i worked that line when it was extended.it actually picks up alot more people than people realize during the rush hours.late at night lots of corrections officers use it to get back to brooklyn from rikers island(transfer from q101).
if the b43 were extended to lic they would add maybe one run. i don`t think you need many more buses for that. also why extend it especially that a customer could transfewr to the b61. lots of money wasted if they extend the 43.
To extend the B-43 to Long Island City will duplicate the B-61 route and will be a waste of money.
BTW the B-62 which was one of the two routes that make up the B-43 did indeed go to Long Island City at one time.
In 1952 there was a fire and some overhead wires were destroyed but before the fire the B-62 did indeed terminate in Long Island City and the B-61 terminated at Comercial and Box Street. At that time the B-62 was a electric bus and the B-61 was a standard bus.
After the fire the B-61 and B-62 switched terminals
Thank You
As a former driver of the B62 and B 43 when it was at ENY i can attest no ever transferred to or from my bus at the B 61 stops .
Oh man do I miss Graham Ave ( Latin Women all around , lol)
I remember the B43 when it was first transferred to JG,(the B/O that I rode with was at JG at the time) And I must say that the B47/62=B43 combo is much better than the B5/50=B82 combo.
B5#3731
B47#9268(Flx)
B50#8123
B62#1351
Has anyone heard of any plans to extend the G trains to Church Av in the forseeable future.
I don't think so...Here's some advice...bring that up on SUBTALK!
Besides, stay in character (lol)
To answer your question, after this order of 100 MCI D4501s (#2825-2924), there is no plan right now for any more of them. You will have to wait and see later in the year or next year.
Don't duplicate some the words in my previous topic.
BTW, take your question to Subtalk.
I wondering, with the acquisition of Orion by Daimler-Chryseler will there be a possibility of hearing Mercedes engines in Orion Vs, VIs and VIIs? I read in Bus Ride that the Thomas SLF will have them.
Also, reading a bus article about the consolidation of Thomas and Orion, it mentioned the Orion V, VI, VII and the Thomas SLF. Does this mean the death of the dreaded Orion two?
thatwould be like putting a mercedes engine in a yugo.
Sounds like what happened when we received a fleet of Cummins-powered Skillcraft 25-footers in 1988; imagine a sawed-off bus design with psuedo-Prevost windows that looks like it's sitting on a shortened F-350 chassis and looks like a Porta-John from the rear.
These were literally the Yugos of buses, and the drivers hated them. Two weeks after they were delivered, the company went bankrupt. To my knowledge, ours were the only five ever built for transit service with a front door..most were middle door jobs for light shuttle service. I'm just glad to see them gone.
Don't forget... DaimlerChrysler also owns Detroit Diesel. You will still see DD as the standard engine in Orions. It will be just like when DD was a GM division... GMC buses came only with DD engines.
Very true. The 3301 and 3302 "Baby Fishbowls" even came with an 8.2 litre engine that was actually a Cadillac Eldorado 500 CID V8 converted to diesel. It sounds NOTHING like a Caddy; more like a Cummins than anything.
I hope so. What an ugly excuse for a bus; it looks like something I ate and dropped!
So that literally makes them Mopar buses. Wouldn't it be neat to have a Hemi Thomas?
updated bus roster is now available at the urban transit club website.
I was amazed with what I read in the bus roster. So many changes and I just could not believe it. Like for example, KB has ex-QV buses #3503, #3562, #3902, #3905, #3907, #3916, #3933, #3951, #3954, #3981, #4175, #4304 and here's the kicker..... #4340 and #4342? Also, JAM gave up #4127 to KB. Weird stuff! Usually, it the other way around. Queens gets the garbge as we mentioned before numerous times on BT. JAM has been wheeling and dealing to....buses #4351 and #4354 are with #4349 in MV! HUD has ex-QV buses #4324 and #4327 (which somebody posted about bus #4327 with half QV and half HUD stickers on it! Wel, it now confirmed!) So many changes but here's what got me scratching my head.....What the hell happened to bus #7004 from QV? It's been scrapped? WHAT?! Also, where is bus #120 and why are the Orions being stored in Staten Island? Should they be in service. Just asking the question.
...and for those of you who didn't know, buses PA4304, PA4340 and 4342 have returned home to KB. Actually, buses 4300-4358 were originally assigned to the ORIGINAL Kingsbridge Depot. That would be the old former trolley barn that was razed in favor of the current facility. KB closed and relocated its fleet to the new Gun Hill Depot in 1989, then in 1990/91 buses 4300-4320 were moved to 126th Street, 4321-4345 were moved to Stengel (then later to QV) and 4346-4356 to Jamaica. Buses 4357 and 4358 went across to Walnut Depot (now closed).
Mark
not only are 12 orion suburbans in storage while nyct keeps much older junk on the road but where are ex castleton/qv orion suburbans 611-630.
Click Here and you will clearly see that 611-630 are residents of Queens Village.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Hey Mr Logan
I got a silly question >> Why if the post on transit talk stays correct would the Bx 31 and maybe the Bx 14 go to COLISEUM instead of staying in Gunhill where the run ons and run offs would seem the easiest . Does Gunhill have to give back some land ?
thanks trevor. i also see he has 11 si orions in storage at crosstown and 4 cs orions in storage at that depot. meantime nyct sends 5 junk buses from qv to yukon. this makes no sense. i dont believe the junk buses are in service since yukon needs less buses when school is closed. nyctdob makes no sense at all. see my next post.
Um, the 4687 is still in Fresh Pond, I just seen it on the Q55. Why isn't it listed? Athough I wish it really wasn't here!
-
Q55- RTS #4687(seen)
Can someone tell me who owns RTS buses #3966,4167,4191? I saw them in a lot in Brooklyn near Coney Island. Thay don't have license plates or NYCTA stickers but the advertisements are still on them.
I remember this and couldn't have said it better myself.
Wayne
I was amazed with what I read in the bus roster. So many changes and I just could not believe it. Like for example, KB has ex-QV buses #3503, #3562, #3902, #3905, #3907, #3916, #3933, #3951, #3954, #3981, #4175, #4304 and here's the kicker..... #4340 and #4342? Also, JAM gave up #4127 to KB. Weird stuff! Usually, it the other way around. Queens gets the garbge as we mentioned before numerous times on BT. JAM has been wheeling and dealing to....buses #4351 and #4354 are with #4349 in MV! HUD has ex-QV buses #4324 and #4327 (which somebody posted about bus #4327 with half QV and half HUD stickers on it! Wel, it now confirmed!) So many changes but here's what got me scratching my head.....What the hell happened to bus #7004 from QV? It's been scrapped? WHAT?! Also, where is bus #120 and why are the Orions being stored in Staten Island? Should they be in service. Just asking the question.
Heh heh heh, Kingsbridge got dumped, good for them. Now they know how I feel over here. Tommorow I'm going over there and I'm going to mock them. Thank God FP and UP isn't getting any of these rejects.
Don't laugh too hard at KB. It should be noted that any Queens Division 4000 is 10 times better than any FP Nova.
Mark
The 3900's are better off staying in Queens. They won't last too long if they're taken away from QV. The 3942 learned its lesson not to come to Fresh Pond(or ENY) where it didn't last too long. The 3900's wouldn't hack it, if they were sent here, ENY or KB.
The 3900's are good, but only when Queens has them. I can bet they aren't going to last in KB that long. They will turn out like the 4201(I know Bill remembers that one) within a short amount of time.
At KB today, I couldn't find any of the 3900's. All I seen were artics and novas, but I did see the 4615, that gave me a good laugh. KB doesn't look that impresive, Gun Hill's structure looks so much better.
What is the purpuse of KB being made of two parts? What does each one do?
-
B13- RTS #5058
R143 L-Train
Q55- RTS #9169
Where are these buses? Are they scrapped or stored or what. They are not on the bus roster.
4429 and 4501 are at Crosstown storage. Check the updated roster at TransiTALK.
What about #4499? Thanks for the others.
Saw 4499 this morning on the Q1 at 179 St Sta.heading towards 165th St
Yes! She's still kicking a$$ st QV...for now. Hopefully 4499 will get some more life at another depot.
#4499 Q46
all 3 of these buses are still at QV....all seen Wednesday during the day on Jamiac Avenue
I rode the 8:10 PM Run #315 and it had a MCI D4501 #2901. I got on it from 35 St to Main St and LIE Service Road. There's some changes to this,Mainly the inside of it.
1 Change is now it got Seat Handles on every other seat
2 The Farebox is no longer at a angle like all the other MCI Buses. It's no longer so narrow going between the Farebox to get to your seat.
3. The Armrest is like the one's on the NJT's Newer MCI Buses.
4. The bell sound a bit Higher
5. The W/C Lift Door now slides open.
Overall it was good ride. It went pretty fast on I-495
well today guys was my appointment with the Metro North Railroad. so i took a X64 number 2870 (MCI) to Grand Central straight from my house. i loved that. best highlights of the day as far as railwise, i saw the M7 in person underneath the LIRR hillside facility. anyways i got off at 42nd and 3rd, got thru grand central and got into the MTA head building at 347 madison. wow that building got crazy security. the vistor pass i had even turned purple after i left the buildings. the interview was easy, all u had to do was tell Metro North what they wanna hear, but basically they know i can back up what i said, so they can count on me if they hire me. anyways after the interview i had to go into the MTA health department in the graybar building in GCT. anyways the physical test was pretty easy, because it was a simulated day of a trackworker. hardest parts were lifting the 50 pound track jack, walking and stepping over the 3rd rail with it, and what was the hardest was breaking apart a piece of rail by taking off all 4 nutz, bolts, and washers, and puttting them back together within 15 minutes.i took 11 minutes and i passed the exam, so hopefully i will be placed into the training class that takes place in august. i think i will be because she asked me to fax my high skool diploma to complete my file. now why would she need to make a file for me if she didnt plan on hiring me.........
Good luck with the rest of the process!
T.Beverett
Was that test for the Assistant Conductor? I've been trying for them to get a hold of me for months now. I would like to be an A.C. and would like to know how to go about this? I always receive post cards in the mail that say that my resume has been received and will remain on file.
ANY help would be appreciated.
#1979 X1
try applying to the following positions at Metro North
they are DYING to fill the following positions
1. TRACKWORKER(this is how i am in now almost, i am, SECONDS from a job!)
2. ASSISTANT CONDUCTOR
3. CUSTODIAN
4 COACH CLEANER,
5 CUSTOMER SERVICE REP
TRY METRO NORTH CAUSE LIRR DRAGS THEIR FEET ALWAYS!!! I APPLIED TO THEM, and i never heard from them again!!!!
METRO NORTH, I APPLIED IN APRIL, BY JUNE 10TH I HAD A LETTER ON MY BED INVITING ME TO A TESTING SESSION FOR TRACKWORKER. now i could be placed in the august training classes and be right to work b4 september even starts!!!!!
I was picked for assistant conductor after i sent in a resume around march 1 st or so....went to north white plains facility on july 11th to take four tests....math (basically computing fares and making chnge), vocabulary (as found in the rule book), a mechanical test (like an IQ test(, and a 'personality' survey...
got a letter on july 15th that i passed all 4 and was told to call the number at the employment dept to reserve a time and date for an interview and physical agility...after that i am hopeful i will be in the next class. We were told they only take about 10-12 per class
Six weeks training and 60 days probation...starts like 19 bucks an hour
Howcome the Nova 5000 series buses are getting a Re-Paint and changing the Bus Number Font on the exterior of the bus?
NYC Transit buses get painted approximately every three years to keep them looking good. Those are 1999 buses, and it's 2002 now, so it seems NYCT is right on time.
What's different about the font?
David
A new paint job every three years seems much more frequent than was done in the past. Is it really necessary to repaint them that frequently? Particularly, with better bus washing than in the past. Does anyone know of any other transit bus property, either public or private, that repaints its buses that frequently?
In general, John Walsh runs a tight ship, maintenance-wise (Fresh Pond detractors to the contrary -- and yes, I see FP's buses 5 days a week and I see their point).
Because of the water shortage, only a few of NYCT's depots -- the ones that don't rely on potable water (Kingsbridge, Hale, Amsterdam, Fresh Pond, Ulmer Park, Queens Village, and Castleton) -- are doing daily washings, by the way. The others are washing 2 days a week (unless the restrictions were lifted very recently) under a variance granted by the city.
David
New Jersey Transit tend to paint frequently and so does WMATA.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
At least the driver didn't run.
http://aolsvc.digitalcity.com/newyork/news/article.adp?article=1072001
why did you post that here. that van was a women with her family in it . it wasn`t a dollar van. read the material before you post here. i could see if it were another dollar van accident, but it wasn`t. it doesn`t belong on this board.
hes right. that was a very unfortunate incident. the woman must be devastated.
According to the news article, she was.
That's why I try to avoid Flatbush Avenue. Especially north of the Junction.
I think that Mayor Bloomberg might pull the stunt of the year. Why does my mind itch that we are going to see a franchise-only fare hike?
Let's take a look at the signs:
1) Mr. Bloomberg continues to gripe about the $175 million subsidy to the seven private lines. He believes that MTA control will save him $175 million per year. Of course, we know this is rubbish. It will take at least $50 million to integrate the franchise lines into the TA system because a good chunk of the fleet is at retirement age. Plus, the city must match any state money for city transit services. Total savings will only be around $20 million/year, if that much.
2) Pataki needs to get re-elected. But seriously, how many voters know that New York City Transit is part of a STATE agency? I'll say 20% to be generous. That's 9% of aggravated people who won't vote for Pataki statewide. That's the gamble Bloomberg is taking because riders in the suburbs are much more closely tied to state government than the city (hence, the screwy state formulas that shortchange NYC in many areas go by unchallenged). Since Bloomberg already has his job, the franchise fares could go up in September, making it a little easier for the MTA to raise their fares to match. This could also generate more revenue, except that Queens ridership will be decimated after the strike for many years to come, so it will yield a net revenue LOSS.
3) There seems to be a New Jersey Transit-style issue going on as well. We don't know what the behind-the-scenes talk is, but if the Republicans are letting Bloomberg talk fare hike, that means that something could happen BEFORE the election. I doubt that MTA will lead the action because of political sensitivities, but if the franchises go up to $2 for local and limited-stop services and $4 for express services, then New York City Transit can simply say that they are matching those fares. This protects commuter rail, suburban bus, and bridge/tunnel users (whom Pataki is depending on for support) from an immediate hike. In addition, it would look really good to protect all fares except NYC mass transit from a fare hike to those communities. Remember that 56% of the state's population lives OUTSIDE of New York City. Pataki can win WITHOUT US!
Here's the NJT connection: A fall franchise hike in September would be followed quickly by a NYC Transit "match", just like DOT does normally with an MTA fare change. Suburban fares don't move until after the election, when EVERYBODY doles out more. That's right, EVERYBODY. There could be TWO successive fare hikes because lots of people are saying that 50 cents is too big of a jump. So there could be TWO hikes to get to $2 (or even $2.10...remember the $1.15 fare not so long ago?) in order to appease certain critics within 12 months of each other.
4) Another scenario: Franchise fares go up, but not MTA. Then, everybody would want the franchise lines to go to the MTA and a "severance" package could be worked for early contract termination to the private companies. So, as a campaigning tool, Pataki would promise to have the MTA gobble it up and then the fare hike would be packaged into this. A businessman would love this strategy.
Either way, I think a franchise fare hike is coming...and it'll be here by September. Plus, a New York City Transit fare hike could happen BEFORE the election as well, making Pataki widely popular in other parts of the state for holding their fares steady "at the expense" of NYC.
Of course, any hike without benefits (more service, express bus lane for SI etc.) would just be enough for private, unsubsidzed transit to return and make money in the process. Anyone want stock in Apple Core Transit?
The report I heard on the news this morning is that Mayor Bloomburg is griping about the City's share of its contribution to the MTA subsidy. Sounds to me like he's directly jeopardizing the existing MTA fares and not just the franchise line fares.
governor pataki will never let this happen in an election year. just listen to the news reports today. by the way philly has a two dollar fare but if you buy two or more tokens you pay only 1.20. something like that with metrocard could work here making a fare increase tolerable.
Pataki has been short changing the bus/subway service ever since he was elected ... his 1st man on the job, Virgal Conway, did exactly what George told him to.
But, I agree, he'll let the debt mount until he gets re-elected.
I also noted that he wanted to put the Turbos back on the tracks from Buffalo to NYC (would have been a nice feather in his hat with the Upstate folks), but didn't want it bad enough to get the State Leg. to cut the taxes enough on that line so CSX would be willing to add a second track.
He was part of the reason that the #5 doesn't go to 241 anymore.
here is the story from todays newsday. copy and paste into your browser. this is big news because hall and troissant don`t see eye to eye. the international union and local have been at odds since new directions won the elections last year.
http://newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nybus182790701jul18.story?coll=ny%2Dnynews%2Dreddots%2Dheadlines
I don't know if anyone who are busfans in the Washington D.C. area knew it or not but the Regional Bus Study done for WMATA had several public hearings. It was basically formulating improvements to not only WMATA but also to other surrounding bus agencies. It was not well publicized, unless you were to look at the WMATA website. Anyways, I went to the one in Arlington (I live in P.G., but couldn't find the one there (they could have supplied a map). They talked about many issues including Bus Rapid Transit, bus route extensions to ease overcrowding on the Metrorail, bus routed extensions for other reasons, new bus routes and new bus facilities to handle increased services.
Some of the Bus Rapid corridors they talked about were along Georgia Avenue(Montgomery County), Route 450(P.G. County), Columbia Pike(Arlington-Fairfax County) and H Street (D.C.). Of those, the most impossible would be along Georgia Avenue and along Columbia Pike, since they really have no room for a bus only lane. They also talked about extending some routes into D.C. to ease overcrowding on Metrorail. Here, they didn't get into specifics, but one route that came to mind was extending the K12 to Farragut Square. The new bus routes, in general, that they mentioned were mostly crosstown routes.
They also mentioned new bus facilities including a replacement one in D.C. (Southeast most likely, which should have been replaced 10 years ago).
Most of the Virginia attendees were concerned over the 16 route. They were concerned over bus rapid transit replacing the route, which cannot happen due to fact that they would have to dedicate lanes to the bus service and it's only a five lane road and car drivers would be adamant (sp?) if that happened. They also talked about this route being extended past the Pentagon into D.C. They also talked about the 7 line being extended past the Pentagon into D.C. This was the main line everyone was talking about but also mentioned was the 2,3,1 and the 7 routes.
I have the info from that meeting and I think you can still get the info from the meetings. The address TRANSMANAGEMENT, INC.; 505 Capitol Court; Northeast; Suite 300, Washington DC or fax number (202)547-2726.
I forgot about the meetings when they were held. I had heard that the 16 line was going to be extended into DC too, but not sure what happened with that decision. That extension was to take place with the June 30, 2002 service changes.
I wonder where the 1 would be extended to? The 1C already has a hike going from Fair Oaks Hospital to Ballston Station which takes close to 90 minutes. I suppose it could be extended to either Reston or Chantilly. It used to run to Rosslyn when midday service on the 38B was discontinued, but since that is back, the 1 just stops at Ballston. I think they could eliminate the 1B going to Dunn Loring and just make those either express 1C's or just additional 1C's.
Should be an interesting few years to see what develops. We'll see if the .5% tax increase wins at the polls. They need some kind of dedicated funding rather than just relying on ridership and localities chipping in.
I would love to leave my car at home more if transit were more accessible. If the 1Z, that runs inbound in the AM and outbound in the PM were to run outbound in the AM and inbound in the PM, I'd definitely take it to work everyday. The 1C is too circuitous to be a good enough alternative to driving.
I would like to do the same if P.G. had better bus service. The meetings were as held in June and July. It would be nice if they did the public hearings again and publicized them more. Also they should also include maps to where the location of the meetings are held. That's one suggestion I am making to them.
I agree. I'm sure there will be more meetings in the future as more comes of it, at least I hope. I know the new J4 that's running from College Park to Bethesda is more or less the outline of what the purple line would be like. Hopefully, that's doing well. I grew up near Langley Park and we had such poor service back then. We didn't have a car, but we managed. Now that I've moved out, the C4 practically runs 24hrs. a day and there's tons of other options. Its ok, though, since Ballston has a lot of transit options, too, but growing up, it was tough.
Today while driving down Route 9 in Howell & Freehold I saw new 45ft MCI from Howell Depot. This is nothing new but they were all in different run nembers. I saw 7300's, 7400, 8200's & 8300's . My question is, Why can't NJT give one depot a full run in nember like they do in MTA? This I guess would make it easyer to keep track of the buses arounf the state.
Robert
NJT hasn't delivered buses in a garage sequence since the 1983 Flxible Metro. The MCIs were never in numeric sequence by garage before, even when new in 1982-84 and 1987. Some garages were close, but not perfect.
7300s, WHAT 7300s? There is no 7300s on the property!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I thought I saw 7300's, I could be wrong.
Robert
You probably meant 7000's The 1997 mci cng buses.
Here is a subject to bring out. It seems the port authority plans to bulid a terminal hub at the former WTC site. This could affect the following express routes:
X1,X2,X3,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X9,X10,X11,X12,X13,X14,X15,X16,X18,X19,X25,
X26,X27,X28,X29,BM1,BM2,BM3,BM4,4C. (I eliminated X17,X21,X22,X31,X37 and X38 becasue they do not serve downtown).
My question is, what type of terminals should there be? Should it be like at Port Authoirty where most of the express buses converge, or should it be like either Roosevelt Field or Williamsburg Bridge Plaza, serval bus lanes with signs for different routes. Any comments are welcome.
You are wrong on one point - the X17 DOES serve Downtown.
X17 Downtown
....Worth Street
X17 E. Midtown
....57th Street
X17 via Church
....via Madison
Well, this is a very sensitive topic but I would say that they are not going to make it the the Port Authority Bus Terminal. TOO MUCH SPACE ! However, I do believe that it COULD be something like Newark Penn Station but this time the trains will be underground. I don't know, this is a very sensitive topic. I think we should leave this to the city...for now.
I read in the paper about proposed designs for a new WTC, but it did not mention anything about new bus terminals. The major concern with any construction on the site is that many of the victims' families do not want anything built on the footprints of the old structures. All of the designs included a memorial plaza.
How would a given person go about suggesting to the MTA that a line have limited stop service?
write or call them
Bus customer relations center 1-888-692-8287
Thanks!
Can someone give me the history of this bus, and how it ended up in Ulmer Park?
its a piece of junk
LOL!
History of 4497.
Originally assigned to Coliseum then moved to Walnut when Coliseum closed.
Involved in a fire while at Walnut.
Rebuilt and given soft seats.
Reassigned to Ulmer Park
Mark
Still running or was it put out of its misery?
#4497 B1
out of service at present time. sits in outside yard facing wrong way.
the bus is in service as of 7/18/02. it was running on the b36 line.
I believe it was a typical RTS up until the soft seat conversion period, at which point it became one of several to have this conversion. I recall it being at Flatbush depot for a time when other buses like 3916 and 3965 were there. It was recently transferred to Ulmer Park. Unlike what others have said, this bus was fine last I checked {less than a year ago.} Even the Stand Behind White Line sign was blinking! It looks fine and much better than the 1981 RTS suburbans that are {were} having their lives dragged out of them slowly and painfully.
#4497 is currently a rebulit express bus. It has no windows that open. For awahile, this bus was out of service, yet on thursday, i saw it running on the b36.
it was on the b3 today 7/25
I just booked 4497 Monday on the B6. I didn't notice that it didn't have any sliding windows on it. And I was standing right next to it. I'll take another look at it next time I see it. I did look inside and it appears to have the hard seats like on any other local bus.
BIG AL
it had sliding windows when i saw it yesterday.
the bus runs very well-but let's hope the a/c works.cause if it doesnt, this will be one hot ride.
I read a post back a while ago about the N11 and N13 using buses from Four Mile Run. When the Green Line to Branch Avenue segment opened a year ago this route was using buses from both the annex and I think also Southeast. I not sure when the change over took place, but when I took a bus trip at the beginning of this year, I noticed the difference. I think with what is going on with the Southeast division, that might have been the reason. Basically it seems that for a time most of Southeast buses have been relocated. I at one time seen Southeast's 2000's and Gilligs (before retirement) housed at Bladensburg, and Four Mile Run. I am not sure if this is the case today, but I still see some of Southeast's 2000s on Bladensburg's routes. Also some of Southeast's 2100's have been stored at the Southern Avenue Annex. I know that the Southeast bus garage has been due for replacement for about ten years, either they are still trying to find a site or looking for the funding. Another tidbit I found interesting and it might be because of the situation at Southeast, but the C18 since it's start is using buses from Landover instead of the Annex or Southeast. When I first saw a 9830 series Flxible on that route, I thought they had switched those buses to the Annex, but when I saw 4033 on that same route a month later I knew they were definitely using Landover's buses. When bus garage gets built in southern P.G. County, then I think that route along with, I think, the H11,12,K12,13 and maybe the P12 & F14 will get switched to this new garage. Finally the Southeast bus depot gets built, it is supposed to hold 250 buses, but honestly, they might need to increase that to 300 or more buses.
Some of the buses from Four Mile Run that I've been on lately had N11,13 schedules on them. I was on 4050 the other day and I saw it and I think I saw it on 4070, recently, too.
Coming home on the 1C this afternoon, I had 9345, ex Bladensburg Metro B. I remember riding these buses on the R1, 2, 5 back in the days of living in Hyattsville. It was still in the old paint scheme, but it has been rehabbed.
I've been wanting to take the C18. I have a friend that lives in Waldorf near one of the park and rides it serves, so I was thinking of some Saturday taking a joyride on it and head down his way.
In September, I'm taking a week off from work for a nice mental break, and I want to take the 38B, transfer to the B11, take that to Bethesda, take the J4 through my old neck of the woods and go through my alma mater at Univ. of MD, take the green line to L'Enfant and take the 5B to Tysons for lunch. Nice day just to relax and busfan!
1.what exactly does it do?
2.do gps come with it
3.can it display color?
4.is preinstall in new flyer,neoplan,and eldorado's.
5.what exactly does the simler panel do in the new flyer,neoplan,and eldorado's?
..//
While in my car two days ago a saw a few signs that had S84 and S88 on it on Richmond Road and Targee St. Does that mean that more Limited buses are headed Staten Island's way? The signs look like this.
_______________________
|S74 S78 | |
|--------| Tottenville |
|S84 S88 | |
----------------------
if you saw it probably so. it would happen 9/8/02.
While in my car two days ago a saw a few signs that had S84 and S88 on it on Richmond Road and Targee St. Does that mean that more Limited buses are headed Staten Island's way?
Just the B8 sign that DOT recently put up at Hegeman and Rockaway Avs. It still says B8-Brookdale Hospital. All of this leads to a question, wouldnt it be easier for the B8 to use the Mother Gaston Blvd turnaround just like its future depot sister(B35)? That right turn at Rockaway and Hegeman will be tough one. Hopefully the traffic light patterns will be changed at that intersection as well.
B8#4997
B35#8524
At least somebody agrees w/ me that M Gaston Bl should be the terminal
I know the dispatcher is at Rockaway and Hegeman Avs, but I still think that its easier for the B8 to use MG Blvd turnaround.
I NEED SOME HELP FELLOWS. LOOKING FOR INFO ON EXACT LOCATIONS OF NJT SOUTH JERSEY GARAGES. I'M LOOKING TO TRANSFER DOWN THAT WAY AND NEED INFO. ANYONE WHO KNOWS WHAT LINES COME FROM WHICH GARAGE, WHERE THE GARAGE IS LOCATED, HOW ARE THE LINES. WHATEVER I CAN GET. ALTHOUGH I WORK FOR THE COMPANY EVERYTHINGS SO SECRETIVE. PEOPLE ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS. THEY JUST CAN'T GIVE IT TO YOU, UNDERSTAND. PLEASE BE ACCURATE AND HONEST. OPERATORS IF YOU KNOW THE UNION REPS. NAME I'D APPRECIATE IT. I'M TIRED OF WORKING IN NEWARK. THIS INFO WILL ME DEAL WITH MY LOCAL ATU & THE COMPANY. PLUS LOCATE NEW RESIDENTS. THANKS GUYS.
That is what I saw on Mark Holmes Bus Roster Page.
Can anyone confirm this.
If he posts it, it's confirmed unless otherwise!
The City Of Glendale Az is buying 9 replacment buses (Brand And Type Unknown, Probly NAMBI?) to replace 9 30 Foot Gillig 1980 - 1982 Buses from Valley Metro Laidlaw Division. How Is It Possible To By 9 Buses For $572,000? (Used?)
$63,555 per bus, not counting parts, service contracts, delivery and training expenses seems very high.
Actually, that's bargain basement. Our new Gilligs here at our home TA (also named Valley Metro) costed $242,000 apiece. Depending on the condition, the buses in AZ sound like a good deal!
-F.
Clearly, these are either used buses (in which case $63K would actually be on the expensive end) or very cheap cutaways. It is not possible to get a real transit bus for that price under any conditions.
BTW - I did not know Glendale had its own transit operation. Also, I thought the only Phantoms in the Phoenix area were seven 35-footers of an early 1990s vintage. Furthermore, how come you always refer to NABI as NAMBI? The company is called North American Bus Industries; they even refer to themselves as NABI.
Maybe it was a Freudian slip; every now and then people refer to Flixibles on here as well.
-F.
Why On Staten Island do Limted Stop Buses Have Different Route Numbers (S42/S92) where Other Boro Limteds Have The Same Route Number As Their Parent?
Because there aren't as many routes here, so we have room to set asside blocks for the limiteds. (s8x, s9x).
Unlike the other boros, Staten Island has been split into four distinct service areas:
All routes generally north of Victory Blvd (North Shore): s4x series.
All routes generally south of Arthur Kill/Richmond Roads (South Shore): s7x series.
All routes on Victory Blvd: s6x series.
All routes that cross either Victory Blvd or Arthur Kill/Richmond Rds (Cross-Island): s5x series.
All limited routes (initially, just the s92 and s91) s9x, s8x series. The s8x routes (s81 is so far it) are new. Since all the limiteds so far are North Shore routes, I think it's safe to assume that North Shore limiteds will be s9x, and South Shore limiteds will be s8x. If the sign spots are true (I'll look today) that would set up the following pairs:
s40/90 (Westbound Only)
s44/94
s46/96 (Westbound Only)
s48/98
s61/91
s62/92
s51/81 (Westbound Only)
s74/84 (?)
s78/88 (?)
Both of the last two definately need limited service, ESPECIALLY the s78. I don't consider the s93 to be a limited version of the s53 (although it IS a limited-stop route), as the routes have different terminals.
-Hank
Last night while browsing buses on Ebay, cam across 1980 Grumman Flx that had emergency amber lights on front. Was rebuilt in late 90's as part of recall. Has blue interior seats. Price asking is around $2500.
Trevor, you check it out?
I wonder if that isn't an old NYCTA Grumman...1980, blue seats, and amber lights at the destination sign? Sounds like it to me!
-F.
Wait a minute...late 90s? Flxible closed its public doors in late 1995. So who did the recall...MCI?
I checked it out. The area represented is Cincinnati, Ohio. I think I remember some reclaimed Grumman Flxibles from NYCTA rebuilt and sent there. Those amber lights on the front destination sign board is a give away. The padded blue seating is another one.
Bill "Newkirk"
If this is the bus I saw, isn't it listed as a 1988 Flxible? Certainly if that's true no way it could have come from NYC. While we're on the subject of buses on eBay, has anyone else seen that 1947 Flxible Clipper?
Yes I have; what a NEAT bus! I hope someone at OMOT takes interest in it, especially if it is native to the Cleveland area. Laddie, Norm...are you out there?
Also, there is a former WMATA 1978 Flxible New Look on there starting at $1000...I hope someone preserves this thing as it is a rare bird, being one of the last Flx NLs ever made. I think it is an old 8500 series. If our museum didn't already have three Flxes and a WMATA AM General, I would love to have it for our collection.
-Fred
>>If this is the bus I saw, isn't it listed as a 1988 Flxible?<<
Nope, it was listed as 1980 Flxible. There were some newer Flxible Metros on ebay, one or two from L.A.
Bill "Newkirk"
while passing ulmer park depot today i noted the following buses o/s and parked the wrong way in the outside yard. 2919,2920,2922 and 2924. also 7514 which probably should be permanently o/s.
Hey folks....got a question for you. To my understanding, either Bus Ride or Bus World Magazine featured a Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) Thomas SLF on their cover around March or April. Does anyone know about this, and was there a feature article? Where can I find the issue? Please help; thanks!
-Fred
i have the issue-and it talks about Grummans and Flexibles that they ran=for a deal on my next order F-it could be yours.
Simon, that sounds great; let me know when you want to order next. Did they go into great detail or show any photos of the Valley Metro Flxes?
-Fred
they actually got into detail about replacing the flexibles with newer buses(didnt say what it was)-the new deal might be faster than we though. check email for info.
While checking the current depot bus roster, it's posted that #6365-Orion VII is assigned to MCH. Does ayone have a picture of this bus?
#273-Q32-Orion V(repowered)
The Orion 7 CNGs start at 7560 and I believe the HEVs start at 9700. 6365 is not an Orion 7. It may be an RTS, seeing as how 6360 is an RTS HEV.
no its not,its a hybrid bus just like 6350-6359.
thats true. the numbers have been changed to protect the innocent. they will start at 6365 on up. the last hybrid rts was to have been 6364. regards,sgt friday.
[its a hybrid bus just like 6350-6359]
Just a clarification: Technically, 6365 is just like 6350-6359 because it is a hybrid bus. But it is an Orion VII, which is completely different than the Orion VI model that 6350-59 are.
Just this past week, BLX mentioned the Q60 of years ago. Specifically, a 5 cents zone ticket if you remained on the bus past 63rd Dr. going to Jam. and the same nickel surcharge going west at Broadway/Qns. Blvd. To the astonishment of BLX, no one either cared to make mention of this -or- they are not informed on the history of surface transit. BLX is positive that this nickel surcharge exsisted. This is not a flashback being induced by past use of mind altering substances. BLX reads about bus numbers, buses being transferred to this depot, someone rode a soft seater on a local, etc. BLX asks, do you recall the 5 cent bridge ticket on the old Q44 between Jamaica and West Farms Sq.?? It was collected on the entrance to the Whitestone Bridge on both sides. Again, BLX is positive of this, even if the chosen few who monitor the postings of BLX don't recall. Listen to BLX - he who drove the B30 shuttle under the bridge in Brooklyn to pick up no one in the industrial district. What of the Q44B Malba shuttle, again for the rich people living under a different bridge. Perhaps you can ignore this too. But BLX was there. BLX drove the B62 while at Crosstown, last stop Manhattan & Box Street (no one there, just the depot). So BLX knows, BLX is real. Ignore BLX if you wish, but BLX speaks of important issues.
I remember the nickel surcharge on the Q44 years ago. I was taking my then girlfriend to the Bronx zoo. (And I don't mean Yankee Stadium!) I thought I was going to be in trouble because I didn't have 2 nickels. All I had was a dime. Hey I was a kid at the time! Be easy on the people in here. It's difficult for some to remember certain details about TA over 20 years ago.
I don't remember a surcharge on the Q60. But I will take your word on it.
i hate to go off topic but blx must remember 25 cent franks at nathans, trolleys on church av,trolleybuses on empire blvd,etc. wow im back on topic.
I remember the nickel surcharge on the Q60. For some reason though I always thought during the Manhattan bound ride the nickel was collected at 63rd Drive. BTW, this topic may have been previously mentioned on Bus Talk more than a year ago.
It was brought up by several people, myself included. I seem to remember an auto parts store on the n/e corner of QB and Broadway.
In both cases when you got on the bus you informed the driver that you were going the additional distance and you got a slip, similar to a transfer. When the bus arrived at 63rd e/b or Broadway w/b he pulled into the stop and only opened the rear door. He put the parking brake on and walked through the bus collecting the tickets. No ticket? No problem, either drop in a nickel or get off.
I also remember passengers who got on between 63 and Broadway (No man's land) got the ticket for no charge.
Thanx to BLX for remembering that it was a nickel. I wasn't sure what the amount was but thought it was a dime.
Basically that's what happened with the Q44 bus before it went over the bridge.
I remember an auto parts store there also. I can imagine a red sign in front. But I can't think of the the store's name. If I had to guess, I'd say "Auto Zone"
BLX recalls that the auto store on the corner of Queens Blvd. & Broadway had a red sign indeed. STRAUSS. BLX is not losing his mind and the memory retention is cooperating. Sorry if this was brought up over a year ago, BLX was not monitoring the postings of transit purists throughout the nation. You see, when BLX makes a statement in error, it is no problem to admit same. It's almost 530am. BLX sees the sun coming which will rejuvinate the brain cells.
Doubtful that it was AutoZone a chain that has just recently entered the NYC auto parts market. According to the company's website , the company's original name was AutoShack and wasn't changed to AZ until 1987.
Could have been a small businessman who registered the name with NYS first and went out of business or sold the NYS rights to use the name OR your memory is slightly off.
It was a while ago since I was over there looking at the stores. The last time I woeked there, I was too busy to go upstairs.
HART BUS: BLX posted this morning at the crack of dawn, it was a STRAUSS auto store.
I don't know about the Q60 extra fare, but I definitely remember the extra nickel that was charged on the Q44 to cross the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge. We used to pay the extra nickel when boarding and the B/O would give you a ticket that he'd later collect at the last stop before crossing the bridge.
Wayne
i was on an N2 a few days ago near tenleytown metro and i saw a 4200 series orion V seemingly headed back towards Western division. this bus was not in service but i noticed it had what seemed like a twin vision led destination sign. does metro only have this one bus retrofitted with the led dest. signs?
4309 has an Orange LED sign. That one comes out of the Royal division.
not any more. I seen 4200-4210 from western
Do you mean 4300-4310? I saw 4303 on a Western route recently.
yes sorry
What is the average weekeday, Saturday, and Sunday ridership for the 115 and 116? Any info would be appreciated.
Going by the public timetables the 115 doesn't have heavy ridership after the rush hours because the off peak and saturday frequency is every 2 hours. It does not run on Sundays at all. The 116 has off peak And weekend service running every hour so there must be some kind of ridership to warrant sunday service.
T.Beverett
On eBay there is a listing for an ex-WMATA 1978 Flxible New Look, one of the last made. However, it is listed as a GRUMMAN Flxible. I realize they bought Flx from Rohr in 1977, but were the New Looks really referred to as Grumman buses? Can anyone verify this?
-Fred
Oh yes, and they spelled it as "Flexible", so remember that when you hit search.
-Fred
No, to the best of my knowledge, Grumman took over Flxible sometime in 1979, and the last of the New Looks were produced in April, 1978. M.S.B.A. ordered '78 Flx NewLooks which were numbered 850-902. They were referred to as the "high 8's".
Hmm...that's odd; I thought it was 1977 or 78 that Grumman took over. Then again, the demo was called a Rohr Flxible 870. Also, according to OMOT, the very last New Looks were delivered to Akron, OH in September or October of 1978.
-F.
Okay, to put this issue to rest....
According to "THE BOOK" ("Flxible: A History of the Bus and the Company", September 16, 1970 is the date that Rohr announced is had completed its acquisition of Flxible.
The purchase of Flxible by Grumman was completed in Jaunary, 1978 (Chapter 13, same book source).
Now, getting back to that original Flxible from WMATA being sold in Arkansas on EBay -- WMATA received Flxible 53096-6-1's 8401-8661 sometime in 1978 according to the production records I have (and also at OMOT). Therefore it IS very possible that the bus had a Grumman Flxible identification plate in it. Not only very possible, but very probable.
I see. Thanks for the info Steve!
-Fred
Doesn't the OMOT have a 1974 Flxible rebuilt as an ABR bus? If it was originally a New Look, do you think it had the same structural design flaws as the Grumman Flx Metro's? From what I understand it got so bad at one point that the air conditioning unit would drop down into the engine bay. What a mess!
Those ABR's were not built in the same fashion as the 870's. They used the basic "New Look" construction, with a body that was designed to resemble the 870 dropped onto the old chassis. There are photos of the reconstruction process in the book "Flxible: The History of the Bus and the Company".
Yes, the Queen City Metro no. 800 was rebuilt into an ADB. More info on that coach is at www.omot.org.
I'm not sure about the design flaws; you may want to ask them about that one. IIRC, it was rebuilt around 1983; by this time, the Grumman 870 was out of production, replaced by the similar Flxible Metro, which was basically a redesigned 870 minus the flaws that plagued the latter.
-Fred
It's really a shame they couldn't make a go of that design. I guess what happened here in NYC with structural design flaws was so much of a crippling blow, it eventually forced Flx to go out of business. However, I'm sure other factors were involved as well.
Well yeah, but that was back in 1980 when the design was fairly new. Actually, NYC was about to give Flx one more try; they ordered at least 100 Metro "E"s in 1996...only four were made before the doors were sadly closed. The 1900-series Metros went on to Detroit Diesel, where they now serve as test buses for new engines.
-F.
According to production info I have, NY MTA only ordered 50 of the Metro's in 1995...NONE were delivered. They were slated tobe 1900-1949 according tot he Flxible Corporation "TOPS" list that I had at the time.
This is correct - but the 4 were sent to DD in Lodi - never made it here. What took its place? 50 Orion Vs 631-680 first at Yukon, then out to Queens.
So I would have been happy if the Flxibles were here instead of the Orions in 1996 on SI.
BTW
Has anyone else thought that the front of the Orion VI Hybrid looks like the Flxibles 870/Metro?
Thanks for the info, as much as I have the Flxible TOPS (Tentative Orders/Production Schedule) lists from the last few months, there was never any confirmation on which ones were built, which ones weren't. There were rumors that some were built for a few of the customers who had buses ordered, and then never delivered.
Orions are OK, but yes, I am with you; I would have rather seen Flxes in NYC in 1996. Especially if they didn't have that awful all-white paint job that was found on the Road Champs model of them. Yeech.
-F.
that explains the WMATA Metro that i saw way back when parked at ENY depot. This might have been the model NY was going to get. Sadly, we will never know. ;-(
I saw a picture in a large truck and bus book one time that listed a 1996 Flxible Metro; it was a B@W photo of one in WMATA colors. Could it be that this was the one you saw?
-F.
That's right; the order was taken in 1995, slated to be filled in 96. However, only four were made before the order was cancelled. I hope Detroit Diesel takes 1903 (the last one) and places it in a museum one day, complete with one of their strongest engines.
-F.
Not only that, there was another auction for a "GMC" while the photo was a Flxible
Many folks selling stuff on EBay really have absolutely NO idea what they are selling. They probably saw it had a GM Detroit Diesel engine in it, and that's what they based their description on. They probably had NO idea that you could buy a bus with other manufacturers' engines or transmissions.
I e-mailed the seller pointing out the listing error. Received back an e-mail thanking me for pointing it out but I don't know if he revised the listing.
As the saying goes " a picture is worth 1,000 words"
The vehicle identification sticker usualyl affixed to the right side of the dashboard probably DOES say "Grumman Flxible" on it.
I know the last bunch my employer got had "Rohr Flxible" on that sticker, and they were built right after Rohr took over.
the flexibles that were at 5th avenue/ gleason in the late 70`s and early 80`s were 1979 rohr flex`s. they were taken out of gleason in 1985 with the arrival of the gmc rts 3400 series. the flexes were 9000`s series.
The 9000-series NYCTA/MaBSTOA Flxible 53102-6 units were all 1977s - last one was produced in March 1977 - 9156, serial # 63404. The last Flxible NL is Akron OH 589, serial 64097. When NL production completed, the Loudonville OH assembly plant was converted to build parts and sub-assemblies for the 870/Metro that was produced in the Delaware OH plant.
No Flxible New Looks were produced after 1978. The first production 870, Atlanta/MARTA 3001, was delivered in early 1978, followed by Connecticut Transit's order. All 870s wore the Grumman nameplate.
then why did the registrations on the 9000`s in 5th avenue say 1979?.
Maybe they didn't get issued until 1979? Lots of times, municipal owned vehicles take forever to get issued.
Was MARTA 3001 ever preserved, or is it still around? I hope so as it was the first Flxible ADB.
That can't be right...the last New Looks were 78s, and the 9000s I believe were 77s, IIRC.
Latter part of 1977 is when the NYCTA / MABSTOA 9000's were delivered.
The 1979 date is probably just a mistake someone made when entering the infor at the DMV...or possibly, being municipal vehicles, it took that lok to get the paperwork through. I've seen this situation many times -- San Francisco Muni's Orion 01.502's ran around for about three years with no registrations, plates, etc. Nobody (i.e. SFPD) worried about it as they knew who they belonged to, and they never left the city limits.
Sounds about right. Our insurance company for the museum did something similar; our Grumman 870 is listed as a 1976 model on the policy, when it is actually a 1979!
-F.
The Bx14 should be extended to White Plains Road/Story Avenue/Pugsley Avenue/Turnbull Avenue. It would help ease congestion on the Bx36 and Bx39 at Parkchester.
That bus is possibly the worst designed route in the boro. The BX14 is basically the Prkchester shuttle and otherwise the bus to nowhere. 20 minute headways ( at best) and they always run either very early ( results in ultra long wait for the next bus) or very late ( extra time to Freeze-your-ass-off). even if it were extended, how much could it help the busting-at-the-seams BX39 with ONLY 5 busses per hour??
Just my 2cents..h
The Bx14 usually has 3 (or 4) buses per hour, plus the Bx39 has help from the Bx36.
The Bx14 goes up Metropolitan Avenue, through E Tremont Ave, throught some areas up in Westchester (Bronx part), goes to Westchester Square, then takes over the Bx4's route of following the the #6. It goes to Pelham Bay, then goes to Country Club, so it goes somewhere.
The last bus on weekends goes to Pelham Bay instead of Parkchester
The bottom line is that it is useless...hence its low ridership...
The Bx Senior Citizens need some bus line to ride , hence the BX14 , lol
Isn't the Bx22 also a Parkchester shuttle then since it also goes deep into Parkchester. The Bx14 was crowded around 12 pm this week, maybe they should increase the headways to Bx29 levels (15-17 minutes).
The Bx8 is worse off than the 14, it doesn't even run after 10 pm (I think it stops before 9:30 on some nights)
The Bx8 has 30 minute headways on weekends and has a longer route, they should really add more buses there.
People Do not get on the BX22 at one end of pakchester to get off at the other end.
What bus routes do you think should have LIMITED buses (if they don't have them already) and what routes do you think need to be modified. Like the Bx40/42, the Bx39, and the Bx22 should be considered for possible LTD routes.
The Bx12 Limited should run on weekends (at lease on Saturday since they still use Sedgwick Ave on Saturday)
The Bx1/2 Limited could also run on Sundays (it runs LTD on Saturdays)
In Brooklyn:
B6 needs weekend limited service and/ or use reroute the B 11 back to Rock Pky to provide local service and the B 6 to provide limited only service
B12 should be considered
B35 should also using Linden Blvd as the limited route
B49 Rush hour peak direction limited service
B68 rush hour limited service
B43 (when it happens) should also have limtied service
1) B6 doesn't have enough service on weekends to split headways between local and limited. Extension of route B11 to Rockaway Parkway, with B6 providing limited service and B11 providing local service, is an interesting idea. However, route B11 ran to Rockaway Parkway once before and had to be pulled back because with traffic conditions along the line the way they were (and they've deteriorated even further since), the buses would get lost along the line somewhere and never be seen again.
2) B12 is a possibility, at least on weekdays. It's a busy line, but I'm not sure buses could pass each other.
3) B35 via Linden Boulevard -- now there's an idea! I've actually pushed it with the planners now and then. Linden Boulevard doesn't currently have buses operating on it (not per schedule, anyway), but it IS a truck route and the people living along it are used to big vehicles. Problem is, Church Avenue is a shopping street, while Linden Boulevard is residential -- they're only a block apart, but not really the same market. Studies would have to be done to determine whether a Linden Boulevard limited would be a success, and to my knowledge those studies have NOT been done.
4) B49 is not now the "heavy hitter" it was up until recently. It's got it's moments, but really it's busiest from Kings Highway to Kingsborough College (in the morning, and the other way in the afternoon). Above Kings Highway, and especially above Foster Avenue, it's just not a very busy line. It's more a candidate for short trips than for a limited.
5) Like route B6 on weekends, route B68 doesn't have enough service (during the week, or at any other time) to split trips into locals and limiteds. Moreover, riding isn't concentrated at certain stops (Kings Highway, yeah, but otherwise not really), making it difficult to determine just where the limited stops should be.
6) Once again, route B43 doesn't have enough service to support a limited variant.
In cases where there isn't enough service to split between locals and limiteds, it wouldn't be worth the expense to increase service to a point where limited service would be viable.
David
All of the streets the B12 uses are one lane. Buses cannot pass each other. That B35 via Linden is not bad either. Some B35 buses use Linden Blvd to deadhead to/from JG depot anyway.
B12#8693
B35#980
BX40-Limited until it seperates from the 42
BX42-Local
BX22**- Requires service increase before you can dream of skipping stops in public transportation strapped Castle Hill
BX39**- same as above
BX12LTD- should run on weekends because that's when shoppers flood Bay PLZ
BX1\2 - make the 1 LTD on sunday and 2 Local
Bx39 does share stops with the 27, 36 and 22.
well, the BX39 requires additional service to ever run limited
To have the BX22 run limited without service increases, the route would be as follows: All stops Castle Hill, All stops Pkchester, Bedford Park busses run LTD as of tremont, The next stops are: Morris park, Bronxdale, Pelham Pky, Southern BLVD, Fordham PLZ, All stops after that.
Make the Q58 Limited(sarcasm)
They should have reverse peak limted service on the Q46 b/c it also get's jammed with people going to/from St Johns,188 St,Springfield Blvd,and LIJ and also more Short Turns are needed for the Q46 in Reverse Peak Service,Well there's a few Reverse Short Turns to/from Springfield Blvd but they need more b/c of St Jhons Students tend to jammed the Kew Gardens Bound Q46 around 4:30-7 PM and going the other way at 7 AM-9AM. those new short turns should end at Utopia Parkway or 188 St.
Also there should be Limted Stop Service on the Q30/Q31 Lines to speed up trip times to/from LIRR Jamaica Station and 169 St F Train Station
To all of you who are familiar with the SF Muni - which routes, besides 31-Balboa, are using the newer articulated trolley coaches? And how many of the 1977 vintage Flyer trolley coaches are still operating?
Thank you to all who answer.
Despite the fact that it has traditionally used articulated trolleys, 31 Balboa is not a particularly heavy line. The reason it made extensive use of the 7000-series New Flyer E60 articulated trolleybuses was because until the Skodas, they were the only accessible trolleys in the fleet. 31 Balboa was converted from a diesel bus line in about 1993 or so. Since it had been an accessible diesel line, they did not want to lose wheelchair accessibility in the conversion process, so they assigned what few accessible trolleys they had to it. The 14 Mission was also converted about this time, but that is an extremely heavy line which merits artics.
Now that most of the (accessible) 5400-series Skoda 40-foot trolleys are in, I would look for those to take over the 31 Balboa. As for the 7100-series Skoda 60-foot artic trolleys, I am not even sure that those have been delivered. I suppose they will be used interchangibly with the 7000-series New Flyers on lines like 49 Van Ness-Mission and occasional apperances on the 30 Stockton and 31 Balboa.
The total Skoda order amounted to something like 260 units whereas there were 345 total Flyer trolleys. This should mean that some of the Flyers will stick around for a while, but I'm not entirely sure about that...
>>> which routes, besides 31-Balboa, are using the newer articulated trolley coaches? <<<
When I was in San Francisco last August, I saw no articulated trolley coaches on the 31-Balboa route. All coaches on that line that I saw were regular 40 ft. length. I did see articulated trolley coaches on the 14 line. I was in SF again in May, 2002, and again saw the articulated coaches on the 14 line (I did not come in contact with the 31 line on this trip). On both trips I was in SF only a few hours, so my observations were no more than a snapshot at a particular time.
Tom
Does anyone know why they only run that route on weekdays? They should run it on weekends as well, and actually send buses there UNTIL 9:30(like the bus map says), not 8:55.
nah there's no need to since you got the Bx26 there already and there really isnt too much demand for it
There is also the Bx25
There is also the Bx25...but it only also runs on weekdays.
yeah i know,from Co-op City in the mourning rush,to Co-op City in the evening rush
Cause school's only in session on weekdays...
Let me guess most people want Lehman College right?
Clinton and Science.
I think that it should at least run in both directions at the same time (if not longer in the day). That is good for people who want to go to Co Op City and/or Bay Plaza, it is about 10 minutes shorter than the Bx26.
I wonder if it would be worth anything to modify the route a bit so it can run on weekends? With the QBx1 gone, more people will be taking MTA buses.
It seems like BLX is the only one tapping into the resources of the WWW at this hour. The questions is this (and forgive BLX if this was brought forth last year, two years ago, etc.): Is the subway token ever going to be put out to pasture. The MTA did this with the bridge tokens and forced motorists into the world of EZ PASS. Now they know where your vehicle has been. It will only be a matter of time before they know where your vehicle will be going. BLX knows that token usage is way down. Who will finally decide whether to end tokens and go metrocards only? Will the riding public cry out for a hearing -or- will no one care? Is it cost effective to go MC only? Perhaps those that fill their tv sets with the images of Jamaica St. Croix may want to answer this question. You know who you are, BKX feels that you monitor his postings but won't respond. BLX asks, is this not a legitimate question? BLX thinks so.
Sometime over a year ago, TA Pres. Larry Reuter announced that the TA's goal of completely phasing out the token would not come to pass for now. The implimentation would all have to do with all subway fare transactions taking place at the MVM machine, even single fare cards. Of course that would be politically unpopular and the newspapers would have a field day. The idea is to have the station agents help customers work the machines. A problem comes if the agent isn't multilingual! I fear that some crook would force the agent to open the machine at gunpoint to rob it. I also fear of assaults upon the unarmed agent by low-lives. Of course, the agent would not have the key, only the armed guards who empty out the money and the techs have keys. The agent would still not be allowed to give adjustments for defective cards, that would still have to be handled downtown and the customers will hassle the agent about that. Buses would still take cash fares tho. For the occasional times I use an MTA bridge or tunnel, I pay cash. It is not imperative to have an EZ Pass as you imply.
Stop being an alarmest
How many incidents per year are thier of crooks holding up passengers at PATH stations.
Quite frankly the token booth agent is a costly dinasaur(nearly $500,000 a day in payroll). They are unneeded. 20 years ago when bank began installing ATM machines, the unions that represented bank employee's predicted mass holdups and violence at ATM machines. The fact is that very few roberies occur at ATM machines.
MVM machines are multiligual. The station agents do not have to be. In fact it is easier for a non english speaking person to utilize a MVM then go to the token booth. Most foreign tourists can buy metrocards at thier hotel or the hundreds of retailer who sell metrocards. While I was in paris last summer I had to track down a engish speaking french women to figuer out how to speak to the token booth clerk. If thier was a MVM that had english propmpt on it it would have been far easier
It is far easier and quicker to buy a metrocard at a MVM then at at token booth.
How many incidents per year of crooks holding up passengers at TA stations? I agree not many either, but we are talking about TA revenue and a sitting duck employee who can't get into the MVM. Scores of TA employees especially bus operators and conductors are assasulted each year and if you have agents face to face with passengers the same will happen to them. Where do you get $500,000 in payroll from? Explain. Bank employees are not unionised so they had no recourse. I used to work for one. Customers many times need travel directions. The agents are there to help. When they ask conductors questions, it slows slows down service as he is distracted from getting the train out of the station in a timely manner. But wait, the TA is taking conductors out of trains! So you want the t/o to operate the train, open and close doors and answer questions the agent and conductor used to answer?
Are you advocating no human presence in stations? If you are, then the bad guys will get crow bars to take up whatever is bolted to the floor and then torch the station, especially at a quiet one during the midnight hours. Have you ever heard of the word vandalism? You won't believe the vandalism I've seen in 22 1/2 of working for the TA.
Human precence in the form of a token booth clerk is not required at every entrance of every station 24 hours a day.
A combination of police patrols, survelience camera's and emergency call box's provide a greater messure of protection to the riding public then a token booth clerk who is often two flights away from the platform sitting in a bullet proof box with the radio playing or sleeping(ave u station on the brighton line. the overnight token booth clerk is always sleeping in the booth.) Unmanned staion must have survence cammera's to deter crime. Staions where crime exceeds a reasonable level should have extra police precence. A large majority of stations will ave no problems. Some stations may require a human precence overnights. A possible solution may be to have a station agent on the platform.
In additions entrance ways that do not have 24 hour human precence such as vouries ave end of sheepshead bay staion on the brighton line have no problems with MVM's .
The straphangers campaign predicted that extreme vandelism and crime would occur on 75ft cars which have there end door locked. There are not many problems
Unlike in the days befor metrocard, there are numerous outlets to purchace metrocards (MVM's, Local stores, transetcheck, metrocard bus and at major transet hubs such as mall). In addition, unlimited ride passes and bulk purchace discounts reduces the frequence of fare purchaces. The token booth clerk is not essential as he/she once was.
I am not advocating laying off token booth clerks. I am advocationg the sensible reduction in there numbers over time in reaction to market demand. Current token booths clerks as per TA plans could be retrained as station agents. I don't think it's the best idea to have them walking around the whole day.
3 stage plan to reduce expense in respects to metrocard sales.
1)close all part time token booths
2)Close all uptown token booths on the lex and broadway line. Users who require a token booth clerk can buy there token on the downtown platform. Token booth clerks on the downtown platform monitor uptown fare control survalence camera's
3)Evaluate the need for multiple token booth at large stations (42nd street, rock center)
Do not be affraid of change. Sensible change is good. Those who don't strive to improve and change are left behind
What about the Dyre stations, the MVM's don't work properly and the card swipers have a problem. Of course these people will run for what ever train comes because it could be the last (5) to Manhattan.
Maintnece needs to be kept up. There will need to be personelle that takes over for some tasks currently done by token booth clerks such as clean the card slots.
If the MVM's malfunction buy your card at a local retailer. If the Dyre stations have enough business to require a token booth clerk, open a store just outside that sells metrocards. You will make a killing on people buying other items.
Local retailers can easily sell out, this has happened to me and I had to walk several blocks just to use an MVM. At least it didn't cheat me out of my change, or say single ride only. Of course that was the only time I have actually used an MVM.
I think it is very unlikely that tokens will last beyond the next fare increase. If they do, the turnstiles will probably be reprogrammed (if they can be) to require two tokens, not just one, to avoid the hoarding problem. I think bus fareboxes can be programmed to treat a token as a coin worth $1.50 (in fact, that may be how they're programmed already). The clear message is that MetroCard is the way to go (except for the off-peak private cash discount), and most passengers have taken that message to heart.
I predict that the TA will do away with Tokens when they replace the current turnstiles & fareboxes with one that take Smart Cards.
So what's going to happen when the fare goes up next year? I doubt the TA's going to mint new tokens for the handful of people who still use them, and I equally doubt the TA's going to let people buy tokens now at $1.50 apiece and use them to pay the $1.75 or $2.00 fare.
They did that before when the fare went up for 1.15 to 1.25 people could buy tokens and save money.
They could let them use a token and coins cominbed
On the bus. But not on the subway. And 10 cents per passenger is a LOT les than 25-50 cents per passenger. Tokens will likely be eliminated with the next fare hike. Watch for a lot of people to bitch and moan, especially Mr. Sharpton, who probably can't find the subway from his NAN office, and lives full-time in Fort Lee, NJ.
-Hank
Very few people buy tokens anymore. Anyone who does is waisting his or her money. Buy ten rides get one free. It is funny how local politians and advocates complain about any change. No matter if the change is good or bad.
One of the reasons is that they prey on an unimfromed public. City concil types are the worst. They just want to apear like they are doing something. All they need is to get a few voters to notice them inorder to get reelected.
They did that before when the fare went up for 1.15 to 1.25 people could buy tokens and save money.
At the time, tokens were the only way to pay for subway rides. There had to be tokens for the new fare; the only question was whether to suffer the expense of minting new tokens or to suffer the expense of having people buy $1.15 tokens and use them to pay the $1.25 fare. Now that few people still use tokens, there's a third option: do away with thte token.
They could let them use a token and coins cominbed
I'm sure they will on the bus, at least for a while. But that's not an option on the subway (I suggested that retooling the turnstiles to take two tokens might be), and do you really think the TA's going to continue to sell tokens for $1.50 when the fare is $1.75 or $2.00?
Of course a token IS better than a single ride Metrocard (which is worth 0.75 NOT 1.50). FOr those tourists and other who barely use the buses.
Of course a token IS better than a single ride Metrocard (which is worth 0.75 NOT 1.50).
How do you reach that conclusion? The token and the single-ride card are sold for the same price and come with the identical terms, except that the latter is only valid for two hours from purchase. The idea is that a one-time traveler might buy one in a subway station to use to get on the train right away. I can't imagine many people use them on the buses -- they can just use change.
FOr those tourists and other who barely use the buses.
Barely as in once and that's it?
If anyone at the TA is really concerned by this issue, don't you think it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to reprogram the MVM's to issue single-fare plastic MetroCards or to eliminate the two-hour time limit on paper single-ride cards than to mint a new batch of tokens?
What I meant was that the token gives you two rides while the single ride gives you one. Unless a bunch of people go to the station agents and ask for them to give them a 1.50 Metrocard
I also meant that the single ride should be worth 0.75 (with buses in mind) since it is similar to a transfer. And technically each ride is 0.75 if you take the transfer in mind.
A single ride is like a bus transfer, so how can it be used on the subway?
BTW I see these things on the floor discarded like transfers except they are green instead of blue.
Put down the pipe, and read for comprehension:
The fare for a transit ride in NYC is $1.50. A token or a single-ride ticket on the subway gets you only a subway ride. A token, $1.50 in coins, or a single-ride ticket on a bus gets you a ride on that bus, and the right to transfer to another bus with a paper transfer ticket issued on the bus upon request. The only people who pay $.75 for a one-way trip are the elderly and disabled.
-Hank
Put your glasses on and look:
1. You also forgot about the high school students who unfortunately are paying 0.75
2. I know what the fare is, I was making the statement about the single rides. With a 2 hour time limit, it seems to be worth less than a regular token.
3. I was rating the single ride card like the straphangers campaign rates subway rides. Have you ever heard of the rating before? But many buses should be rated less than 0.75 with some of their service....
4. If you are not smoking, answer this, where is the slot for the single ride Metrocard on the turnstiles?
5. It looks just like a BUS TRANSFER, the very things that the MTA discourages. I'm surprised they didn't just make the 1.50 card a regular metrocard, would be easier for the TA and easier for the people who were not intially informed of the time limit
http://www.straphangers.org/onyourside/
6. I think getting one is like somewhat being cheated (in some cases). On the subway if there is no token booth clerk and the machine is out of regular cards, then what? (Like Dyre stations after 8pm) And many people usually have to take a bus from a subway (at least outside of Mahnattan) to get home. On the bus, well let's just say delays, or messed up fareboxes don't help your cause if you have to take another bus and it expires before you can make it.
1. You also forgot about the high school students who unfortunately are paying 0.75
They pay half fare now? I thought it was free for high school students, it was when I was in high school in the 80's. I didn't think that changed.
(Like Dyre stations after 8pm)
How do they handle that there? Isn't it easy for people to just jump the turnstiles? Do they have the "egg cutter" type turnstiles there?
"... They pay half fare now? I thought it was free for high school students ..."
You are both right ....
- Grades K to 6 within 1/2 mile of school = free (orange card)
- Grades K to 12 between 1/2 & 1 mi of sch = 1/2 fare (green card)
- Grades 7 to 12 over 1 mile from school = free
- there is also a "Night High School" card (green)
- and a school trip card "Good for Two (free) Trips"
That explains it. I had a free card when I was in high school (that was of course just one that you flashed up at the token clerk, who most of the time wasn't paying attention anyway, and just went through the exit doors.) But come to think of it I do recall some kids having to pay something for their passes, even back then in the 80's. It didn't affect me, so I don't really remember that, but I think that was true.
They have cops there that deal with people who jump the turnstiles(either by arrest, or in some cases, people who explain themselves may get lucky). Some of these people have problems with their cards and just jump, others just take their chances.
1) HS kids pay $.75 when they ride a bus. They wouldn't be able to ride the trains with a bus pass.
2) Until 8-9 years ago clerks would close down the turnstiles on the Dyre Ave line. The gates would be tied open and people would go in free. However they had to pay on the train. One door would open and the conductor would be there to accept the token or change with a Johnson Fare Box. Since the introduction of Metrocard the stations now have MVM's and HEETS for the overnights.
Put your glasses on and look:
1. You also forgot about the high school students who unfortunately are paying 0.75
Yes, I did. But the Board of Education picks up the other half of the fare, while the elderly/disabled customer's 75 cents is all that transit gets.
2. I know what the fare is, I was making the statement about the single rides. With a 2 hour time limit, it seems to be worth less than a regular token.
I won't argue that point. The idea is that people are not buying a single-ride ticket with an eye toward future use, they are buying it toward immediate use, just as someone buying a single token would.
3. I was rating the single ride card like the straphangers campaign rates subway rides. Have you ever heard of the rating before? But many buses should be rated less than 0.75 with some of their service....
This is not valid. You get the same service for $1.50 single-ride card you get with a $1.50 token. You can't compare the same value differnetly.
4. If you are not smoking, answer this, where is the slot for the single ride Metrocard on the turnstiles?
Same place where the Metrocard slot is on the turnstile. People are expected to properly dispose of the used fare media. People toss value-less Metrocards on the floor the same way.
5. It looks just like a BUS TRANSFER, the very things that the MTA discourages. I'm surprised they didn't just make the 1.50 card a regular metrocard, would be easier for the TA and easier for the people who were not intially informed of the time limit
It LOOKS like a bus transfer. It ISN'T a bus transfer. It says so QUITE clearly on the front. The TA does not discourage bus transfers. The reason the single-ride card isn't a plastic card is because they're not meant to be used long-term, so using paper is cheaper. The machines tell you when you buy a single-ride ticket that it is good for only two hours. It says on the face of the ticket that it is only good for two hours.
6. I think getting one is like somewhat being cheated (in some cases). On the subway if there is no token booth clerk and the machine is out of regular cards, then what? (Like Dyre stations after 8pm) And many people usually have to take a bus from a subway (at least outside of Mahnattan) to get home. On the bus, well let's just say delays, or messed up fareboxes don't help your cause if you have to take another bus and it expires before you can make it.
I've never met a machine that was out of cards. All the dyre stations have machines, IIRC. A two hour wait for a local bus is an extremely unusual circumstance. I live out at the end of the planet as far as NYC Transit is concerned, and there is no two hour wait. If you're transfering from the bus to the subway, or vice-versa, guess what? You're buying a Metrocard, because even with a token, you can't make the transfer. Anyone making a round trip who buys a single ride ticket or a token is not anticipating their own needs.
-Hank
. "It looks just like a BUS TRANSFER, the very things that the MTA discourages. I'm surprised they didn't just make the 1.50 card a regular metrocard, would be easier for the TA and easier for the people who were not intially informed of the time limit "
The whole purpose is to encourage people to buy their fare in multiples reducing congestion at MVM's
What I meant was that the token gives you two rides while the single ride gives you one.
What are you talking about? The token and the single-ride card have identical transfer privileges.
Unless a bunch of people go to the station agents and ask for them to give them a 1.50 Metrocard
And the station agents will inform them all that no such card is available, except for the single-ride cards sold by the machines. Again, what are you talking about?
I also meant that the single ride should be worth 0.75 (with buses in mind) since it is similar to a transfer. And technically each ride is 0.75 if you take the transfer in mind.
It's only similar to a transfer in appearance. The basic fare is $1.50 per ride; that comes with various transfer privileges (depending on how the fare is paid) and discounts are available. Just like a token, a single-ride card is valid for one subway ride, one bus ride, or one bus ride with a transfer to a second bus.
A single ride is like a bus transfer, so how can it be used on the subway?
It's only similar to a transfer in appearance. Single-rides are sold in subway stations, are valid in subway stations, and are only useful in subway stations.
BTW I see these things on the floor discarded like transfers except they are green instead of blue.
Some people are slobs.
Actually David, he is right. From time to time, I would get a green single ride paper card inserted into the farebox also, in which the farebox would say "single ride". However, if you look at the card, it would say that it is not valid for a transfer. I never understood the purpose of this or the reason why somebody would take possession of it. I always forgot to ask it's purpose since I really didn't get it on a regular basis. I'll try to find out the purpose of it this week but I think it is really something that is only issed with the trains under special circumstances.
BIG AL
The, green, Single Ride MC is the token replacement. It's only sold from MVM machines in the subways, but you can take it to a bus where you can ASK for a, blue, Transfer.
Like a token, if you use it in the subway, sorry no transfer.
Mr t__:^)
The only time I would buy one for use on a bus is if I didn't have exact change, and I only needed to go one way.
-Hank
No, there are no bus-subway or subway-bus transfers with the single-ride card, but there are bus-bus transfers, but the passenger has to request a separate paper transfer -- just like with a token. See the card here.
Single-ride cards are sold at MVM's. Tokens aren't. Who would buy a single-ride card? Someone who would buy a token to use right away on the subway. That's it. There isn't much point in buying one for the bus; it's easier to get change, and the card expires two hours after purchase. Plastic MetroCards aren't sold for less than $3.00 (currently; that could change, of course).
Oh, OK. I never read the whole back of that thing. I was confused by the front saying no subway-bus transfers etc. Thanks for the info Dave.
BIG AL
---
And the station agents will inform them all that no such card is available, except for the single-ride cards sold by the machines. Again, what are you talking about?
---
Let me re-phrase that I should have said the agents could put 1.50 on a Metrocard (if they have an empty one).
Are there any notices ahead of time that would warn people about the time limit now on the machines, since this is from last year.
Yeah these things are the replacements of tokens, only problem is that some people were not informed of the time limit.
http://www.straphangers.org/onyourside/
Are there any notices ahead of time that would warn people about the time limit now on the machines, since this is from last year.
Yes. The machine warns the customer before collecting the money.
Yeah these things are the replacements of tokens, only problem is that some people were not informed of the time limit.
That was a problem. It's been corrected.
B12: When the B40 is discontinued on Sept 8, will there added buses to the B12 or service will be as is?(I think the answer will be no.)
B14: Is it true that this bus is being extended to the movie theatre at Linden and Elderts?(Which is one block over from its current terminal.) I think itll be better to extend it to the Bklyn GPO, or to the future Gateway Centre, or even across the border to the Rockaway Blvd station on the A train.
B12#4998
B1434987
Re:B12
I believe that when the B40/B78 combination was first proposed and plans for not replacing B 40 service between Ralph Avenue and Pennsylvina Ave i recall reading that extra buses were to be added to the B-12 route to pick up displaced B-40 passengers
Re: B14
The primary reason for the extenstion was for supervision reasons. One dispatcher can now handle the B-14,B-15 and B-20 lines from Elderts Lane. A secondary reason was for B-14 passengers who lived south of Linden Blvd will no longer have to cross Linden Blvd which is very busy street and extremly hard to cross (It has service roads in each direction and a main street consisting of 3 lanes of traffic in both directions.) There has been new housing and a major movie theatre complex built there in the past several years.
Speculation on why the B-14 was not extended to the Brooklyn GMF is that it is duplicate service. B -14 passengers can transfer to the B-13 and B-20 which both serve the Brooklyn GMF. I heard rumors that the B-14 will be extended to Gateway Plaza shopping complex wwhen it opens next year
Hope this helps
Thank You
According to the Daily News, Gateway Ctr is suppposed to open by this fall. Right now the closest bus to that area will be the B6 on Cozine Ave. I live in ENY and Im about 10 minutes driving from the movie theatre so it do makes sense to terminate the B14 at Linden/Elderts.
From seeing the B40 on Liberty Ave 7 days a week, I think current B12 service will be adequate, throw in a bus or two.
Thank you for all the info.
U can have have an every other Alabama Ave bound B12 make the right at Mother Gaston and do the old B 40 route to the terminal at Atlantic / Georgia . Then straight up to Alabama / ENY Ave and make the left onto ENY ave into the stand in front of the depot and then Ocean Ave bound .
Here is a thaught why don't extend the B45 to ENY Av/ Saratoga Av or the current B40 terminal. Either terminal would provide a direct St Johns Pl route w/o transfers. If the B 45 terminates at ENY Av/ Saratoga Av. It would make its turnarounds at Saratoga - ENY Av - back to St. John's Pl.
Why because the TA is cutting service thats why. They have a mentality about cutting service as much as possible and the hell with the public.
By the way the B-65 will be better route to extend to Pennsylvina/Liberty Avenues if they wanted to do so.
The B-45 loops around Buffalo Ave,St Marks Place and Ralph Ave.
by extending the B-65 you just have to follow the current B-40 route
Thats my opinion
Thank You
When is this suppose to happen? And how many are suppose to be coming? And what is going to get replaced?
If we're talking about NYC Transit here, 260 New Flyer artics were just ordered and are expected to come in between late this year and mid-2004. They'll replace 1987-and-earlier RTSs.
David
If the late 2002 to mid-2004 delivery schedule is accurate then by using the New Bus Order Assignment shown on the NYCT Bus Roster one could guesstimate that delivery would take place as follows;
1) #'s 5510-5539 30 buses for Kingsbridge Depot - Late 2002
2) #'s 5540-5620 81 buses for 100th Street Depot - First half of 2003
3) #'s 5621-5701 81 buses for 126th Street Depot - Second half of 2003
4) #'s 5702-5741 40 buses for Michael J. Quill Depot - First quarter
of 2004
5) #'s 5742-5769 28 buses for Casey Stengel Depot - Second quarter of
of 2004
This all speculation and guess work on my part so don't anybody quote it as fact. What actually transpires will naturally be determined by the Department of Buses and New Flyer Industries.
Hey no Fair, What about Brooklyn???????????
they dont need no stinkin artics... besides the bronx is strapped for them and is in desperate need... the cycle goes: Gun hill borrows from KB which borrows from MJQ which just deals with it.
Today, I rode the R Shuttle from 86th to 59th. Then went upstairs to take shuttle bus to 36th Street. Received a yellow old fashioned transfer for General Order Transfer, Expiring 9/30/02. I had bus 8549 (operator didn't put up subway shuttle or R train to..., but had NOT IN SERVICE) from Jackie Gleason.
There was also a W shuttle from 9th Ave to 36th Street.
Other shuttle buses I saw included 892, 927 (ran shuttle for R, but sign said E TRAIN TO 36TH STREET), 8131, 8682, 9066, 9190, 9198, 9387, and others that I didn't catch.
Question: - I thought only one or 2 Brooklyn Depots would handle the shuttle? As you can see from the bus numbers posted above, there were buses from ENY, JG, Flatubush, and 126th, with probably more from the ones I didn't catch the numbers from. But WHY 126th from Manhattan???
I'd have to check to see how many runs and extras are assigned to this shuttle, but it's pretty big. No one Brooklyn depot has enough personnel available to operate large shuttles, so the work is split among the depots (the work is designed so that each Operator gets a bus, which he or she keeps throughout his or her tour). If there STILL aren't enough personnel available to operate the service, some of the work goes to 126th Street.
It gets weirder yet: there was a large shuttle in downtown Brooklyn on a day when many Operators were taking a test (for Dispatcher, I think) two or three years ago. The work was farmed out to...the Bronx Division! It was interesting seeing articulated buses in Downtown Brooklyn.
David
On the J shuttle this weekend,they were using a mix of buses from FP,JAM,QV & CS for the runs Sat.and strictly QV(4900's mainly)and CS(hi 600's)today.
If anyone has the new desination reading signs for NYCT, please post it up .
wasnt it YOU who mentioned something like this before? whats so hard about doing it yourself?letting others do the job for you is just flat out being lazy.
Damn! that straight up cold.
Whats with the foot long/wide # decals ( 6019 ) on the front driver side of bus ?
Oh boy these D4000's are poping up everywhere! I saw thse 2 in Jones Beach Yesterday on a Charter Run.
What complanys run those 2 D4000's?
8506 and 8512 are run by Coach Usa Suburban Transit of New Brunswick, NJ.
Tony M.
To everyone:
I am now back home and should be here for most of the next 3-4 weeks, then I travel again. I also am now able to check my e-mail and SubTalk regularly.
Glad to be back on board!
Drove to Woodside, took a #7 Redbird to Main St. in hopes of riding a soft seat Orion or RTS on which ever line one showed up on. After obseving the goings on at Main/Roosevelt for about an hour, I gave up. The only one I saw was #110 heading toward the depot. I took the Q27 to Springfield Blvd/Jamaica Ave. Bus 6130 ran well, had good a/c. For my return trip to any subway station, I would take any soft seat bus I could, just for variety sake. There were several lines there: Q1, Q27, Q36, Q83 and Q88. Orion 628 showed up on the Q88. It was not repowered, but recently repainted. I know the TA has no plans to change the soft seats since the money is not budgeted, but since this fleet is in the process of being repowered, at a certain point the seats will have to be changed. The TA will have to find the money to do so at at some point. I was sitting in the front row, right side, at the window. The aisle seat next to me was virtually unusable: put your hand on the seat bottom and you can feel the springs ready to come out of the cloth. The seat back was no better either: it could not be locked in the upright position, once you leaned back so did the seat. Observation revealed that the cloth on most seats was stretched and looks lousy. But the bus did run well with good a/c. Rode to Queens Mall. After a comfort break, rode an OPTO G to Roosevelt, transfered to an R62A #7 train back to Woodside.
628 does not need to be repowered. All Orions 400 up are in compliance with the law, as they have the DD50 engines. Only Orions 101-316 (not including 317 since it's CNG) have to be repowered, as well as any 8000 up RTS that is up to #8566 (as you recall 8567 was sold to Command with 8398 and 8399, all CNG RTSs) since they don't have the DD50 engines. The Remanufactured ones - 7000-7049 and 7500-7559 don't have DD50s, but are in compliance with the law.
Well, up to at least bus #8564. Buses #8565-8566 are already repowered! They were demos for the #8600-8703 series.
8565 and 8566 are not repowered. They came in with Series 50 engines, the first NYCT buses to be built with that engine (bus 3160 had been repowered as a prototype). The last bus in the group, 8567, is a CNG bus and has since been sold to NYCDOT and assigned to Command Bus Company.
David
Wrong! those buses are repowered
I'm not going to get into an "Oh yeah?" It's not worth it.
NYCT buses 8565 and 8566 were delivered with the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. The buses have cooling fins on the sides of the bus at the rear (where the "pork chop window" used to be on earlier RTSs), because of concerns about heat dissipation. Later it was determined that these cooling fins were not needed, and subsequent NYCT orders did not have them.
Believe me, don't believe me -- whatever.
David
P.S. What other notable feature does 8566 (but not 8565) have?
8566 and 8565 has a different Destination signs in the front, 8566 has the destination with the Destination split in between and 8565 has the regular 1. And they are repowered, My mom works at JG Depot and she spoke to the people there, and according to them, they have been repowered, also if you get a chance you hear the difference in the engine.
AcelaExpress2005, I'm sorry but, you and your mom are wrong.
Buses 8565 and 8566 were delivered with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines. They have features that are very similar to the DOT 1993 RTS's now sitting idle at Queens Surface and Jamaica Buses. Next time you see 8565-66 take notice of the left side of the bus after the last passenger window. You will notice that the JG logos on both of these buses had to be squeezed between that window and the AIR VENT that only 1993 Series 50 or CNG buses have. All the NYCT's 1993-1999 RTS's have air vents on their right sides, but only 8565 and 8566 (along with ALL of the DOT '93 RTS's, except for Triboro's methonal buses) have the vents on the left side. Hmmmmmmm......
The 1993 order of RTS's and Orions contained prototype buses within each order. You've been set straight on the RTS's, now for the Orions. Buses 291-294 were delivered with Series 50 engines and have NOT been repowered. All you have to do is listen to them. Their engines are MUCH louder than the repowered Orions. Buses 295, 296, 297, 299 and 300 were delivered with those God-awful Cummins C8.3 engines. Thankfully, those buses were repowered by Blitz and now have Series 50 engines. Finally, Orion 317 (actually a 1994 model) is a CNG bus.
I hope this helps.
That's news for me also. I'll look for those buses (8565 or 8566)tomorrow on the B35 while I'm at Roger's ave and Church ave booking the B49.
BIG AL
8566 was on the B35 today. I saw it at MG Blvd terminal. The destination sign is like of the newer Nova RTS's.
B35#8566
8566 was the first bus with that front destination sign. it was always going haywire the first year the bus was in service. sometimes you needed a magnifying glass to read it the display was so small
Both 8565 & 8566 were on the B35 today running only a few buses apart in the same direction. I finally got a chance to check out the louvered rear panels on both sides of the buses. Also, they do sound just like the repowers, otherwise everything else was the same, except for the front sign on 8566.
BIG AL
Actually, I know there was Detroit Engine 50 is 8565 & 8566, BUT, the MTA repowered the 2 buses, I do listen to the buses, BTW 8565 was on the B65 and I rode it today, have you listen to the 2 buses lately. And Last week I was at JG and my mom was doing some Bus switching in the yard (Overtime), and according to the roster at JG, 8566 also has been repowered. In the back of the Bus on the Left hand side is the exhaust pipe.
they were delivered in 94 with the exhaust pipe where you described
Listen to Q5Merrick, they came to NYC with an exhaust pipe sticking out on top. They were the first 2 NYCT buses with the Series 50.
The roster at J.G. is wrong concerning 8565 & 8566. Whoever makes that roster probably didn't know either. I know for a fact there were at least 2 buses with vertical exaust pipes all the way back in 1994.
Just because you read something doesn't necessarily mean it is correct. And you can't go by the sound you hear them making.
BIG AL
P.S. How convenient that out of all the buses at Jackie Gleason, you just happen to get the very bus that we are currently talking about on bustalk.
Well, I go by sound.
well here goes. in 1994 summer of ,i was the main transportation for delivery of all 8500`s from lodi to jackie gleason depot. every day on my swing i took about 5 drivers to lodi to bring back 8500`s to gleason . and yes 8565,6 were equiped with dd50 engines. they were the first 2 in the whole system to be delivered with the new engine.3160 at ulmer park was converted from a v72 to dd50 first bus to be tested with that motor. so 8565, 6 are not repowered they were delivered and always powered with the 4 cylinder dd50 engine.
No, David is right. They are not repowered. hey came like that. It was an error by me.
Have you seen the 2 buses lately??????? I have and they are repowered, I noticed that the engine sounds different 2.
Okay, okay. Calm yourself. Geez!
The engine sounded different when they were brand new from the factory! They never had the old engine. They were built "repowered". I suppose that you will go to your grave believing that they came in with the old engines and no one on BusTalk is going to change your mind. Sometimes moms ARE wrong!
It wasnt my Mom, it was the JG people that told my mom, Now you know they cant be wrong.
Unbelievable!
You better believe it!
The buses came in with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines. That's a fact, regardless of what anyone at Gleason says. HOWEVER, it is POSSIBLE that the engines now on the buses are IN-KIND replacements for the original engines for some reason. Perhaps THAT is what the folks at Gleason meant.
David
why is it you people just can`t accept the fact that 8565`6 were the original series 50 buses manufactured that way.
Me? I'm the one who said they WERE the first two NYCT buses to come in with Series 50 engines...which they were!
David
not you all the others (:
who is your mom . i worked at gleason for 19 yrs.as a matter of fact 8565,6 were at flatbush last summer. they were brought back to gleason last fall. i delivered 8565,6 in the summer of 94.
Well actually my mom didnt tell me, I was at that depot and heard 8565's engine, it sounded much different than what I heard before, the same goes wit 8566, Do you know a lady name Donna? She has over 50 Apple Awards?
She worked the B65 for the last 2 1/2 years.
did anyone here read my earlier post. those buses were manufactured with dd50 engines. with the exhaust pipe on the left side upper.there is no argument here. i was there in nj when they were picked upo to be delivered to gleason.
The only person claiming those 2 buses got repowered and were not originally delivered with the series 50 engine is AcelaExpress2005, no one else!
lol
Thanks for putting everything all on me! That wasnt funny!!!
sorry but you didn`t acknowledge the fact that those buses were already series 50 powered when manufactured. sorry again
I know they had the series 50 engines, BUT next time u get a chance, listen to a bus thats been repowered already and listen to 8565-8566 and you will see that they are repowered.
As "Q5Merrick" and I already explained, 8565 and 8566 have a different engine ventilation setup from the other NYCT RTSs that were delivered with Series 50s, and it's also different from the RTSs that have been repowered with Series 50s. That may account for the difference (if there truly is one) in the way these buses sound. I'd have to check, but it might also be a different transmission, which could also affect the sound.
David
they have allison tranny`s
Yes that is true, the 8565/66 has different sounds, but I saw 8566 often lately and I hear the engine, it swear it sounds like it was repowered.
the original motor and the one it has now are the same. the bus always sounded like all the repowers on the road now
Another explanation that they sound exactly the same as the other repowers could be because of the exaust system itself. The buses are almost 10 years old and most likely have had new replacement exaust systems installed, which is exactly the same as the new replacement exaust systems on the repowers. A replacement exaust system may not sound the same as the original O.E.M. exaust that was on the bus. Thus same replacement exaust, same sound.
BIG AL
That could be a possibility
The reason you think it need to be repowered since it doesn't have the pipe out the top, but it is fine. Some say emissions come from beneath the bus, but I believe they come out the top - if you notice, there is a hole there with chicken mesh wire covering the hole - just no pipe.
Buses #400-630 are already repowered. The ONLY thing the MTA has to do is raise the exhaust pipe from the bottom to the top like buses #416 and #444 from Amsterdam Depot.
Main Page:
New photo section in 'Our Divisions':
Calgary Transit - 66 pictures
Lethbridge Transit - 38 pictures.
Photo of the Week:
Los Angeles Metro Blue Line
Southern California
Section Updated - Added 10 new LACMTA pictures.
New York Transit Center:
1)add RTS under NYC MTA, more than 30 RTS photo, including GMC, TMC and Nova are being added.
2)added Transport of Rockland, Tappan ZEExpress
NA Transit
Keith Cochrane the CEO of Stagecoach, parent company of COACH USA has resigned from his position.
The group revealed that its US operations was still performing poorly.
A full review of the American operation will be completed By December 2002.
Chairman Brian Souter will now take over Mr Cochranes top job at Coach Usa and try to turn things around.
The share price dropped by 17% today on the London stock exchange.
Article, that not every one here will embrace, but who's position I happen to support.
Hmmm, don't know why the link didn't show in orig. post ...
http://www.gothamgazette.com/commentary/133.lynn.shtml
Great article!! Too the point...hope Bloomberg reads it and feels a pinch in his ego!
Well, it was an interesting read, but I have issues with the following excerpt:
Indeed, if the MTA had genuinely been eager to assume responsibility for serving the neighborhoods now relying on the private bus lines, it would long ago either have proposed to do so, or offered a competing service.
The MTA has been pushing "Regional Bus" since 1992. The long-term goal is to combine all regional bus service and create a separate "private" entity under the MTA and away from NYCT.
In contrast, NYCT doesn't want buses at all. Not the privates. Not their own. In order to begin this RBC, the MTA must first "assume responsibility" for all involved agencies.
Perhaps the MTA has been reluctant to undertake such an expansion of its service to New Yorkers because its own record in providing bus service is so poor.
The author offers no facts or comparison figures, or even an explanation of "poor service". If the fact that Green Lines will place into service a bus with missing body panels, defective MRDI's, and a host of other safety-related defects at the expense of passenger and employee safety in order to "make score" and log the trip as completed to increase (save decrease) funding, I'll take the safe poor service of NYCT any day of the week.
The MTA already offers too few buses to move too many passengers, and the MTA's buses are far more likely to suffer from mechanical breakdowns than are those of the private lines.
Now I know this is not factual. If it is "factual", the numbers are adjusted. Still, where are the numbers to compare? It seems that this argument includes more opinion than fact, which is fine, but don't advertise it as something it's not.
Now, mind you. I do not side with NYCT on any issue indicated above. I do however question the "fact-finding" of the author.
Good read, though.
I found it interesting that he took any position at all. Is he running for office ?
Well, in any case it does add some more detail to the subject.
Mr rt__:^)
Detail? I found it obscure at best. Ponder:
In stark contrast, the MTA and its subsidiary, the New York City Transit Authority, are both state agencies that have historically been more responsive to suburban dwellers than to city residents.
Tell me. How has the NYCTA been "historically more responsive to suburban dwellers than to city residents"??
I don't know if Lynn's running for office, or for the front door of the "Gotham Gazette". With an article like this, I'd assume the latter.
Any word on the City Council passing the EPP resolution?
The rumor i heard through a queens bus driver is the city was to take over Queens Surface and change the color of the buses to match the ny design-though its only a rumor.
#568-Q32-Orion V
Wait until you see this thing. It is awesome! Also, there is a 1978 RTS converted to squareback that looks pretty sharp there as well.
Scrapped: RTS #7004, Orion #122
Possible Scrap: RTS #7021, #7023 and #7029
The 2 scrapped buses are stripped of almost everything.
The 3 possible scraps are on the scrap line, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. For now, list them as Bad Order/O.O.S.
Why would QV be scrapping the Blitz RTS rebuilds already? They were only done over a short time ago.
Those aren't Blitz rebuilds. The 7000s were done in-house by NYC Transit (and not very well in my estimation, though they seemed to get better as they went along). The 7500s were done by Midwest Bus.
David
Why would an Orion be scrapped unless it had a fire or a major accident? Its not even close to retirement, especially since the 1993 Orions are getting repowered. I could maybe see some of those remans getting scrapped, b/c some of them are not in the greatest running shape.
Orion 122 has quite an interesting history. As you may or may not know, it was originally assigned to Yukon in 1993. It stayed there for five, uneventful years until it was displaced by the MCI's and moved to Mother Hale in 1998 (along with 123 and 124). From there things got very interesting. After a short stay at Hale Depot, buses 122-124 were moved to Carlton Storage Yard. Shortly thereafter, bus 122 disappeared from New York City entirely for about a year landing up in Winnepeg, Manitoba, Canada!! I have no idea why it was there and no one I asked seems to know either. Orion 122 returned to NYC in 2000 and made the rounds from one storage yard to another. It received a brand new Series 50 engine and transmission in 2001 and returned to passenger service for the first time in 3 years at Queens Village Depot. It ran in QV service for a few months before it was removed from service this past winter. It has sitting idle ever since.
I hope this helps.
Okay then. It makes sense. Why scrap it..still does not make sense but I do understand the story.
From what I heard, 122 had so many mechanical problems that it had to be placed out of her misery. It had enough mileage going to and from Canada when it did. It was also at CS for a very short period of time.
122 has made history-it is the 1st "Onion" ever to be scrapped. It will be used for spare parts. Anybody know the fate of Onion 543?
122: 1 gone many to go!!!
#1979 x1
Okay, maybe I can understand the 7000's falling apart but why scrap Orion V bus #122. It has been repowered. Why scrap it?
What happened to 122? Why Scrap?
Why did they scrap the Orion5 #122? It's only 9 Years Old and I can't understand that why scrap a 9 Year Bus when it's not even Old Enough to scrap it?
And also the 7000 Series RTS's are fine buses and they been there for a verry long time and they got Rebulid in 1997. They should wait til 2007-2010 to do that
The 4600's/4700's should get scrapped before the 7000's and 7500's. The Bklyn. Divsn. will look better without them.
Especially since the 7000's are almost antiques. Just wish some of the Fishbowls could have hung around that long. At least New York Bus Service still has a few...
Okay, this is just a question....really for Brooklyn67, Q5Merrick and BIG AL. Assuming that the Orion VII Hybrids come into QV, will QV give back buses #505-511 and #515-521? Can QV expect more 500 buses from CS? I know the 600's are not going to QV (#631-680).
These questions can only be answered definitively by Chief Maintenance Officer John Walsh or a member of his executive staff, and as far as I know neither he nor they post here.
Wait and see...
David
David answered this already, but I just would like to add that GENERALLY (and I mean G-E-N-E-R-A-L-L-Y), the main focus when new buses are delivered, is scrapping (or reassigning) old buses at the depot that receives the new buses OR scrapping old stuff at another depot within the same borough.
For example, assuming that QV still does receive 60 Orion VII's the focus probably be on scrapping the few remaining 1986 RTS's at QV, and JAM's 45 or so 1985/86 RTS's.
Returning the 1995 Orion V's back to Stengel probably won't be too high on the list of priorities for the Chief Maintenance Officer.
Oh and by the way, Orion 512 is now a QV'er.
Mark
Why doesn't CS receive the Onion 7's and in return QV will get all of CSs 500 series Onions to replace the 1986 RTS and the Remans? That would make more sense than this.
#9378 Q46
1. 5607 and 5610 were on the Ride-On 38 at about noon today.
2. They seem to be changing the fronts of the WMATA bus timetables. The T2 has been reprinted.
3. The Friendship Heights bus terminal has been closed so they can repave it and do curb repairs. All Ride-On and Metrobuses are unable to use the terminal for the next 3 weeks. MetroBus routes L7, L8, B11 and Ride-On route 42 continue to use their usual stop. The 1 and 11 are also using that stop as well. The E2, E3, E4, and E6 continue to use their regular stop, too. The even 30s, N2, N3, N4, N6, T2, and Ride-On 23, 27, and 29 are using the stop in front of Hects, across Wisconsin Avenue from the bus station. Buses layover on Friendship Boulevard between Western and Willard Avenues. There was some confusion and a large number of people who decided to cross Wisconsin Avenue halfway between Western and Willard instead of using the crosswalks so that they could catch their buses, but the buses do not seem to be delayed.
Other observations I have spotted over the past few days.
1)4281 sign is broken, it signs "NOT IN SERVICE", but was running on the A12 and also an unknown Four Mile Run Orion Six had 13A-Pentagon via Mall, but was on the 25B, destination unknown. Was seen at Landmark Mall.
2)More buses seen in strange places: 9387 a Montgomery Bus seen on the 13B and a couple of months ago, Royal St. bus route 11Y had a Four Mile Run Orion VI, number forgotten.
3)Someone mentioned this earlier but I spotted 5212 rehabbed, but instead of the two stripes in front it had one stripe. I think it looked kind of sporty.
4)More and more C40LFs in service. The D6, 80, 83, 86 are almost 100% New Flyer CNG's and most of Bladensburg has a least one CNG running on it. The lowest spotted CNG in service since the brief hiatus is 2352 and the highest is 2438.
5)The not in revenue service New Flyers were serving as shuttle buses (at least Friday anyway) for the Washington Grand Prix. Spotted was 2326 and I saw three others lined up at the Capital Centre (U.S Airways Arena) I am not sure they are running on Saturday and Sunday, cause I only spotted Landover Orion V's running shuttle service these two days and couldn't remember which two they were.
6)Finally, I haven't really spotted many WMATA buses doing tour bus duty this summer, I think have only spotted two or three doing that job and they were from Montgomery.
Also New Flyers have been also spotted on Western routes 42 for about a month and recently have been spotted on the 30 routes. And contrary to the WMATA website the 32 still lives. Also, if everything goes as planned in six years, Western will have a new bus garage. According to the WMATA website, they have signed a 99 year lease agreement with Clark Realty Capital to develop the site the Western Garage now sits on. In about 2 or 3 years building will begin and Western's buses will temporarily relocated (probably to 14th St, Bladensburg and Montgomery). It didn't say whether the garage would be bigger or just big enough to hold the same amount of buses they have now or whether it will have CNG capabilities.
4012 was on the T2 this afternoon. I have never seen a Metro-E numbered that low on that route. 4003 had been on the L8 in the mornings at about 7:20 at Friendship Heights. The Montgomery Metro-Es were always in the 50s and above 75, never down towards the start of the order.
Must be a loaner from 14th Street garage, I don't think those buses are moving from 14th street to Montgomery. Also, from time to time I spot a 14th Street 9400 series on Montgomery Routes.
For the past several months I've seen the lower 4000's on Montgomery runs. In February, I was on 4005 on the Z2 and before that I had seen some of the others on the Y route. I think the lower 4000's were originally Bladensburg buses.
I've seen 9387 quite a bit running around Alexandria. Also saw an 8700 from Four Mile Run on the N11 the other day. The side sign had the route and destination, the front said "Not In Service".
The Arlington Division has a real mixed bag of buses. Mostly Orions, but they have the few random ex Bladensburg Flx B's, 9323, 9324, 9345, 9346 and ex Royal 9395-9397.
Saw 9427 on the 29N the other day as well. This was the ex Landover bus you mentioned. It was funny to see it the day after you mentioned it.
Montgomery has been using some lower 4000 series buses for a while now. I see 4004 regularly. Montgomery also has some mid 404X-405X, as well as high 408X-409X buses.
Wayne
I think in the early days of the 9300's and 9400's, they did run out of Four Mile Run, because I rode one on the 3 going to Tyson's and were always seen on the 13 routes. I have also seen from time to time seen various 9300's and 9400's running on the 13 routes as well as practically every other bus that runs in from a Virginia garage.
Also, I did too spot ex-Bladensburg 9346 on the 25B. On a final note, it looks like the CNG refurbishment at Bladensburg is complete because it looks like they are going to bring the rest of the New Flyers from Montgomery to the Landover holding lot. I passed by the Landover garage yesterday and it looks like they are lining up the buses in a way that is different from what the Landover buses that run the Landover are lined up. This could mean they might put the rest of the New Flyers in service the next few weeks and that could mean more major garage moves.
That will be interesting to see what else shows up. I did see 9322 on the 1B this morning, so that's one more ex Bladensburg bus showing up.
The 25B seems to have a mix of Four Mile Run and Arlington buses on it. I was on 9604 the other day and it was a Four Mile Run bus, but other times I see the 35 foot 9400's out of Arlington on it. Of course, the best was when I saw a 30 footer on there in the PM rush packed to the doors. Not sure what happened with that, must have been a replacement bus.
They really need artics on the some of the lines out there, but I don't see that happening if the Neoplan's are just replacement buses.
I thought when WMATA was going order their next articuleds, they were going to at least order 50-70. I guess I was wrong. I think the 16, 42 some S trips, P12, C22-26 (they did use them when Landover had NABI 5242-44, now in Bladensburg) and make the X2 an all articuled route. They still should think about ordering more.
Another factor to consider is whether or not Arlington or 4 Mile Run have the required lifts to maintain artic buses as Montgomery appears to.
Hey...9322! I've built a model of that one before!
-Fred
She's alive and well! : )
Aw-ROOT! Good to hear; do you mean the model, the real one, or both? Hopefully the latter. I understand 9322 has had a change of clothing since I last saw her?
The real one is doing fine. Not sure about the model since I don't have that one. I do have the 9815 model you gave me in my case looking sharp. 9322 still had the old paint job. 9815 has changed however.
Thanks for the compliment on the model; I am honored and pleased that you enjoy it. It's good to hear that 9322 is still in the original paint scheme; I always preferred that one. So how does the real 9815 look with her new "do"?
9815 looks really clean as do most of the repainted ones, but it has those dumb LED lights instead of the wraparounds. : ( I'll always prefer the old paint scheme.
Great minds think alike; I prefer the wraparounds to those cheesy South Park-looking things on a Flx anyday. Also, old school paint looks MUCH better on them than the new scheme...although the blue on the A/C cover adds a touch of different.
-F.
As ST moves around more Orions, Southampton and the rest of the East end gets CRAP! (Just like Fresh Pond...LOL!) Okay, Southampton has been getting Gillig buses #9601-9608 (35Ft) as a loan according to my friend at the garage. Now, it's official that those buses will stay in Southampton Depot. Also, buses #9660-9668 (35ft) and buses #9701-9714 (30Ft). Once in a blue mon, I will see Gillig bus #2000 (normally on the S110 clipper). We are not receiving anymore Flxibles. Flxible Metro-D bus #9332 is the ONLY bus on the East end while the rest are up the Island (Patchogue to Port Jefferson and westward). Some Orions are in Riverhead on the S62 which has been extended to the Riverhead Court House...I just found out so forgive me for the late news. Also, S58 is now in Riverhead (Court House) and the S74 is now a full time bus route. It use to be a summer route from Smith Haven Mall to Smtih Point Park. The S58 would terminate at Middle Country Rd/Ridge before coming to Riverhead. Well, that's the news from what I heard today. Here's a brief roster of buses:
Gillig Phantom
#9100-9140 (35 Ft) 1991
#9600-9668 (35 Ft) 1996 (Bus #9647 has been repainted AFAIK)
#9700-9731 (30 Ft) 1997
#2000-2004 (35 Ft) 2000
Flxible Metro-D (with a DDEC 6v92TA engine)
#9300-9349 (35Ft) 1993 (I thought it was higher than that..like up to bus #9370)
Orion Bus Industries
#9900-9968 (35 Ft) 1999
Hope this helps! Any questions let me know!
thanks for the roster. Most of the Flixibles are assigned to the Inter-County Coach garage in Babylon. I have been on #9336 on the S29. Very fast trip.
Add 2005 to the 2000 series Gillig Suburban list.
Also a few weeks ago I saw 8731 (Gillig?)or something close to that number on Vets Highway at Lakeland. The destination sign was blank so I assumed that it may have just left Atlantic Diesel. I have never seen any ST buses that old in that area. Any info on that?
Those are from 1987 I believe. they should be retiring soon. Those buses have the rolling destination signs.
Thanks for the roster. I had no idea ST had close to 300 buses.
YOW! Me neither. What a fleet! How many of those are Flxes?
-F.
I really do not think that there is 300 buses because some could have retired, so who knows.
[Flxible Metro-D (with a DDEC 6v92TA engine)
#9300-9349 (35Ft) 1993 (I thought it was higher than that..like up to bus #9370)]
I'm quite sure that some, if not all, of the 9300 series Flxibles are 30-footers (not 35 feet). Also, as another poster pointed out, there are some Gilligs around in the 8600 or 8700 series.
Actually it's the 8700 and 8800 series from 1987-1988. Those should be retiring. As for the 30 vs 35 Ft, you could be right about that. As a matter of fact, I do believe that bus #9332 is a 30 footer! I'll check that out.
I do know that Suffolk runs a number of 30-footers; in fact, I have built models of them in that length. I never knew about the 35-footers though. Bet they look great!
-Fred
I forgot Gillig buses #900-940. I've seen buses #930 and #932 on S60 and 3D respectively. Buses #900-920 are 35ft (I thought they were 40ft) and buses #921-940 are (30Ft).
is this 30ft or 35ft?
is this 30ft or 35ft?
That's a 35-foot Gillig Phantom. The easy way to tell with Phantoms is by how many windows between the doors. Two windows? It's a 30-footer. Three windows indicates a 35-footer, and four windows on a 40-footer.
(two large windows on 30-footers, two large + one medium window on 35-footers, three large + one medium on 40-footers)
Okay, my mistake. Buses #900-940 (at least 940) are 35ft!
Yep, 35-footer. Most of our buses here in Roanoke are also 35-foot Gilligs. Wish we had Flxes.
-F.
I have noticed that on the RTS buses, where the single seats are on the left side of the bus facing foward, I have a hard time sitting in these seats because of my long legs. The only seats that I can use, other than the ones facing the middle, are the first seat facing foward.
Now here's the catch. When I am on the bus where the seats are on the right side of the bus facing foward, I have no problem at all fitting into the seats in any part of the bus.
My question is this, why such a difference in the seating dimensions in the two buses?...
Seta spacing on the curbside is controlled by the location of the rear door. Depending on where the door is, the seats may be spaced far wider simply because the floor space may be such that an "extra row" of seats might not fit. The result is, the bus operator will spec the seats to fill up the space with wider gaps, rather than have "dead space" next to the door.
I am 6'6 and most buses depending on type of bus I can't sit in the seats without contorting. I liked the Flxible Metro because they could seat 45-47 and I could sit anywhere somewhat comfortable. I had to pick certain spots on the practically every other bus (except the WMATA 4200 series Orions and the Ride-On Gilligs.
A great Idea would be to sit in the single seats in the 30 ft portion ( front half) of a D60HF, Loads of legroom.... but those seats are very sought after, you will need to be one of the first 3 people on the bus at the first stop to be guaranteed one of those seats.
So how does it feel to be a human 40-footer? LOL!
-F.
It's not fun, especially 6'6. That is one of the reasons why I like the Flxible Metros, especially WMATA's. I can fit nicely on practically all of WMATA's Flxibles (except the 4000's and I don't know why).
Do you fit well in a WMATA Flxible Metro Suburban?
Actually, I have ridden a couple of the 9830's, and the seats are a little close together for my taste and the same thing with the Orion 4400's and the 4300's surburbans. You just somethimes learn where to find the right seat on the bus, there is always one place that I can sit comfortably, even on the new looks, which had more seats than the ADB's and the low floors.
There's plenty of space on a NYCT D60.
I'll find out what kind of space the WMATA Neoplan 60' have, when they come in October, would be interesting to see if WMATA orders more 60' buses. Hopefully they can order New Flyer D60s or wait to travel to New York to ride one.
Yeah...they are much better in seating arrangements. Usually they have smaller seats, plus the rear of the Metro Bs in Blacksburg has a MILE of legroom in the very back seats all across. You could ride those quite comfortably, although they have hard fiberglass seats!
-F.
To all busfans there is always the opportunity to take pictures of our interest and when there is a superb opportunity it is always wise to take advantage of that opportunity. But sometimes circumstances come about to kill that opportunity and that is what happened to me a couple of months ago.
Usually, the Andrews Air Force "Open House" allows parking on the base, but this year due to 9-11, parking was not allowed on the base, only at FedEx Field and at the Branch Avenue Metro Station. I live across the street from the Stadium and the buses were supposed to pick up passengers there. I assumed that the buses would go up FedEx Way, around the stadium to pick up passengers, BOY WAS I WRONG! To complicate matters, I had to work (I work in retail) that Saturday and had to work all day.
I woke up at 7:00 AM get ready for work when I heard a bus pass by, then another and another. Two NABI's (Ikaruses when bought) and a Mann was seen going up the street and that was then I realized they are not going up FedEx way but up street in front of my house. To make matters worse, I left my camera in the car and it was raining so hard, you would have needed an arc to get to work.
For the next two hours while also getting ready for work, I practically spotted every type of bus WMATA has even buses that weren't in revenue service yet. Buses were spotted from Bladensburg, Landover, Southern Annex, Southeastern, Northwestern, Montgomery, and 14th Street. I am pretty sure, buses from Ballston, Royal and Four Mile Run were running too, it was a busfan's dream. There were more buses running on this shuttles service than they were running for Redskin games and concerts at FedEx Field. The thing was not really taking picx, but just to sit on the deck facing road and seeing ,all day, seeing bus after bus going up and down the road, Flxibles, Orions, New Flyers, NABI's, MANN's, and not having to go nowhere. Unfortunately, for me that was only two hours watching from a window getting ready for work. My assitant is very lucky he is a great worker to get the day off, or I would have really been cursing. I hope they do this next year, because I am not planning to be in retail, or if I do, make sure I get that weekend off so I won't miss this opportunity again. At least I have the Skin's home games to look forward to.
Speaking of the Redskins shuttles, they use a mix bag as well I believe. I've seen some artics from Montgomery deadheading late Sunday nights after some games when I visit my parents up near White Flint. I'm sure Landover and Southeastern provide buses too.
When I decided to joyride on the Green LIne on Saturday on a new CAF car, we got to Greenbelt just in time to see 2 Baltimore MTA NABI 9900's pulling into the park and ride lot to take O's fans to the game that night. It was cool to see them sitting on one side of the parking lot as the WMATA buses going by on the other since they don't mingle with each other too much. The only other time really is when the B30 goes the BWI Business Park Light Rail Station.
I think this is opening the door for some sort of service between DC and Baltimore on weekends especially for either MTA or WMATA, especially since the B30 is already up at BWI and there's no MARC service.
They will probably have more routes from Washington to Baltimore using transit buses, maybe a route from Greenbelt to Arundel Mills. That was surprising to hear that Baltimore used transit buses to ferry passengers to O's games, I thought only MARC handled that. I saw two Baltimore NABI buses on 495 in Virginia, probably heading back to Baltimore and the day before, I saw a SEPTA El Dorado heading towards the Wilson Bridge. This was about a year ago and about 10 years, ago about 5 or 6 Flxible Metros from Baltimore ran down my street. I think they were coming back from a D.C. rally.
The Redskin shuttle uses basically buses from all of Metro's garages, except for Royal. I think Bladensburg, Landover, Montgomery, Western transports persons from the Cheverly and Landover Stations. 14th Street, Southeastern, Southern Annex, Ballston and Four Mile Run buses transports people from Addison Road. For the Redskins shuttles this year, will probably use the New Flyer CNGs, Orion VIs, NABIs, MANNs (before retirement), Neoplans (when delivered and accepted), Orion Vs 4200s, 4300s, 2100s, 2200s and Flxible Metro 4000s, 9400s and 9300s. Also Orion V 9600s and Flxible 8800s and 8900s might be used, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Yeah, MTA runs a shuttle from Greenbelt to Camden Yards on weekends when MARC doesn't run to ferry passengers to the game. It costs $5 one way or $9 round trip. On weeknights, MTA runs buses to Greenbelt and Union Station since the last MARC from the Camden Station is at 7PM or sometime around that. CSX refuses to allow passenger trains on late as it slows their trains down. I've only seen NABI's used. Each year, a newer bus seems to be put on the line as they receive more. There used to be three that would handle the run, but I've only seen two lately. Not a whole lot of people use it. I'd rather just take the B30 to BWI and transfer to the light rail. 1) its cheaper, 2) both the light rail and B30 run late while the shuttles leave 20 minutes after the game. Using the B30 and light rail would allow you to spend more time in Baltimore if you go up for a day game.
During Redskins games, when they do an overhead shot from the blimp, you can usually see the buses in their little section of the parking area. Once the new Blue Line Stations open, more people would hopefully use the metro/shuttle combo rather than drive. Of course, nothing beats RFK for both atmosphere and convenience.
I'm more of a "SubTalker" and rarely visit BusTalk, but had a bus question.
I was looking at a photo of the Las Vegas strip with a "double bus", and it made me remember riding "double busses" when I was in Las Vegas a few years back. Did New York ever have double busses? Do many cities operate them? I seem to vaguely remember there being a law against them in New York, but I could be wrong.
If you are talking about the articuleds, yes many cities are operating them. Here in D.C., WMATA has 45 NABI articuleds in service, and I guess 21 MANN's in service. They also have on order and ready to be delivered 21 Neoplan AN460s to replace the MANN's (should have been way more, because I think more routes needed them). Most of the major cities are opertating them, even L.A. who has shunned them for years, may even think about getting them. Back in the day, we also use to call them double buses.
[even L.A. who has shunned them for years, may even think about getting them]
LA did have some MAN artics very early on. I recollect that they didn't like them and sold them off when they were still fairly young. I think AC Transit in Oakland may have been the buyer.
Southern Cal. RTD (predecessor to today's LACMTA) purchased 30 AM General/MAN artics in 1978 (9200-9229). I think you're correct about those buses being sold to AC Transit (Oakland), but I can't say so with 100% certainty. SCRTD also purchased 10 MAN 55-ft artics second hand from Golden Gate Transit in 1984 (9250-9259), but I don't know the circumstances behind those buses.
I'm hoping some of our West Coast people can explain LACMTA's artic experiences better than I can.
On a side note, LACMTA also operated 22 Neoplan double-decker coaches starting in the early to mid 1980s (9900-9921).
>>> LACMTA also operated 22 Neoplan double-decker coaches starting in the early to mid 1980s (9900-9921). <<<
Two Neoplan double deckers are in commuter service with the Antelope Valley Transit Authority, running between Los Angeles and Lancaster/Palmdale area of Los Angeles County and I have seen one double decker on the streets in Santa Fe Springs with "City of Santa Fe Springs" on its side. Santa Fe Springs does not run scheduled service, so I do not know how that bus is used.
Tom
What do you mean Double Busses. If you mean 60ft Artic. that yes MTA dose have them, if you mean something dfferent please give more info on what you mean.
Robert
I don't know what you actually call them, because as I said I'm not much of a bus fan.....
I don't know the proper terms, but hopefully you guys will know what I mean. It's sort of like two busses that has an accordian type connection between them, connecting them. The rear "bus" is like the back end of a normal bus, without the front end, the front "bus" has no back, you can walk freely between them.
Yes, New York has hundreds of articulated buses. Most of them run in the Bronx, out of the Gun Hill Depot and the Kingsbridge Depot (which is actually in upper Manhattan, but most of the routes run in the Bronx). The ones in Manhattan run on crosstown routes: 23rd Street, 79th Street, and 86th Street.
Oh, that's why I've never seen them in NY, I don't get to the Bronx that often, nor to upper Manhattan. I am around 23rd Street quite often, but mostly just crossing on one of the Avenues, so probably missed them, I rarely walk along 23rd Street. I'll have to look for them when I am there. Thanks for the info.
For a not particularly huge fleet, Las Vegas's CAT has a smattering variety of articulated ("double") buses. The orginial four units were New Flyer D60s delivered to Las Vegas Transit (CAT's predecessor) in 1991, and they wore the numbers 6101 to 6104. CAT adopted these into their permanent fleet and renumbered them 500-503.
To satisfy gigantic loads on Route 301 (and later other routes) CAT purchased two more orders of D60s in 1995 and 1996. These buses are numbered 510-517 and 520-525.
Considering that ATC/Vancom systems have a history of buying New Flyer buses, many were surprised when CAT went for NABI 436s for a sizable order in 1998-1999. These 46 artics are numbered 530-575. It's nice to see artics with three wide, full-size doors like these babies. They tend to turn up on heavy routes other than the 301, such as the 113 Las Vegas Bl North and the 109 Maryland Pkwy, but they can be used interchangibly with the New Flyers.
Most recently, CAT has taken six MY2002 Neoplan low floor artics, whose numbers have been wedged between older New Flyers at 504-509. I have not seen any pics of these buses nor have I heard much talk of them; I would pay to get some quality photos of these. The NFIs and the NABIs have been good to CAT, but it looks like the Neoplans might be the future for CAT.
All Of CAT's artics have three doors.
So right now, CAT has 70 artics, which is about a quarter of their fleet. They are committed to buying more, which, percentagewise, will put them right up there with Seattle for greatest number of artics.
(I sure do love sharing info like this! :) )
Thanks for the info! I didn't realize Las Vegas didn't have that many of them. I guess I was just lucky when I got one (I only rode a Las Vegas bus once when I rode from Downtown back to the strip) They really interested me because I never was on one before. I don't think I've ever seen one in New York. That's why I was wondering if New York ever had them. If they do, I've never noticed them.
They really interested me because I never was on one before. I don't think I've ever seen one in New York. That's why I was wondering if New York ever had them. If they do, I've never noticed them.
NYCTA has 110 New Flyer D60HF artics from 1997-98 (1000-1109) and 260 D60HF artics from 1999 (5250-5509), with another 140 (5510-5649) due within the next few months. That's 510 artics operated by the TA, which is a huge number, but a smaller percentage of the fleet compared to Seattle.
I think Seattle has about 50 M.A.N. articulated trolleybuses -- 4000 to 4049. Also 175 of the Breda dual-mode artics, 5001-5175. Not sure of the amount of the New Flyer D60HF's in the high 2000 series.
Corrections: The Bredas are 5001-5235....about 60 more than I thought.
The M.A.N. artic trolleys are 4001-4045, five less than I thought.
The series for the D60HF's is 2300-2571 -- so they have 272 of them.
Further correction:
The MAN artic trolleys are 4000-4045 (1986 model SGT-310).
The Breda dual-mode units are 5000-5235. Some of these are now leased to Sound Transit (but still operated by Metro) for use on Route 550. The first four were delivered in 1988, then came 118 more in 1989-90, and the final 114 in late 1990-early 1991.
There are 273 1998-99 New Flyer D60s, numbered 2300-2572.
Sorry about the nitpicking, but accuracy is paramount!
Valley Metro Phoenix Transit South Division Still Has 16 MAN Artics 1979 - 1981 Model Years #70xx All With Front Door Lifts and 70F Degree A/C.
Valley Metro had ordered 45-foot buses to replace these old artics a number of years back, but I don't believe they've been delivered yet. Last time I looked at the NABI web site, I didn't even see the 45-foot model mentioned. I wonder whether this model has been eliminated.
The model has not been eliminated. I guess for some reason NABI did not put the order up their website. Remeber, LACMTA(Los Angeles) is getting a few of the 45 foot CompoBUS or better known as 45C-LF some time soon. LA is NABI town other than Miami. LA is going to try those first and use them on their heavy lines before going to artics. Yes, they have artics on their minds too.
Valley Metro Has Yet To Replace The Artics. The first Of The NABI 45 ft buses have arrived 3 Mth Ago #6301 -> ? to slowly replace the GMC RTS Flatback (35xx & 45xx), TMC RTS (44xx) and New Flyer Lf40 (37xx & 40xx). They are still looking for a low floor to rear door artic (No Center Door) to replace the remaining artics and add to the fleet.
The MANN artics can Be seen on routes Red (All Day), Blue (Rush), 0 (Spratic), 19 (All Day), 35 (Rush), One Express Trip AM Inbound /PM Outbound On 521, 531, 560, 561 & 580 Expresses
Valley Metro is retiring their New Flyer Lf40 that fast? I guess they were the oldest D40LF.....
Unless he means replacing the New Flyers on selected lines in Phoenix, I highly doubt that Valley Metro (Phoenix) would retire buses that are only 8 years old -- unless they're basing it on mileage rather than age of the bus.
Valley Metro Is In the Process of Elimating All DISEL Buses By 2007. (I know that the flyers can be converted to Natral Gas but Valley Metro says that the long term cost is lower to replace the bus instead of changing the engine & fuel systems.)
I lived in Vegas from June '94 to July '01.
I think the 100s were RTSs.*
The line I rode the most was the 104 and the 204. I always hoped a 700 series bus would come. I loved the automated announcements.
*Why did I bother mentioning that? O_o
CAT/Las Vegas owned 10 RTS buses up until recently: 101-105 were 1980 RTS-4 models which were originally Las Vegas Transit System #4521-4525 before they were renumbered by CAT in the 1990s. 150-154 were also owned by LVTS before CAT took over. 150-152 were bought second-hand in the early 1990s (LVTS 4401-4403), while 153-154 (ex-LVTS 4301-4302) were 1992 TMC RTS models.
Yes, the 100's were the RTS's...the 200's were the Metro's, and the 300's were the Gillig Phantoms. 400's wee NFI D40HF's.
this was the roster for CAT-Citizens Area Transit-as of 4/25/94:
101-105 GMC RTS T80204
150 GMC RTS T80204
151-152 GMC RTS T80204
153-154 TMC RTS T80206
201-208 Grumman Flixible
250-253 Flixible
254-261 Flixible
301-313 Gillig
401-460 New Flyer D40
461-490 New Flyer D40
501-504 New Flyer D60
1100-1128 Eldorado National
601-604 New Flyer D40LF
hope this helps.
You sound like you know Vegas pretty well. I lived there from 1994 until 2001, and sometimes found artics on routes where you'd never expect them. Caught one once on the 105 (MLK Blvd.), and never saw one there again.
Two of the other CAT routes that feature artics are the 204 (Sahara Avenue) and the 110 (Eastern Avenue).
By the way, do you have any idea what was done with the southern terminus of the 301 and 302, and the northern terminus of the 303, and the western terminus of the 212, now that Vacation Village has closed?
Most major cities run "Double Buses" or the actual term for them "Articulated " buses. New York City has 370 in service with 260 more coming, New Jersey Transit has 110 in both transit and suburban configuration, SEPTA recently tripled their fleet from 50 to 155 buses , even the northern suburbs of NYC (Westchester County) operate 73 of the big buses. The city with the most "Artics" is Seattle, where 2/3 of the total bus fleet are Articulated. (combining diesel, dual-mode, and trolley coach). You can find "Artics" in San Francisco both diesel and Trolley buses. All in all almost every major transit system has these types of buses in service, or will be getting some.
The only exception to this is in Ohio. Articulated buses are prohibited by law in that state, so no transit system in the state runs them.
>>> Most major cities run "Double Buses" <<<
A big exception is Los Angeles. I am unaware of any in Los Angeles County, but neighboring Orange County (OCTA) does run them.
Tom
I either heard it or saw somewhere even L.A. might be going back to the articuleds decades after ditching their first ones.
In fact, MTA is presently soliciting bids for 200 low-floor CNG artics. Clearly, they are not experienced with artics if they think that they can easily get CNG artics. It's awfully hard to send compressed natural gas between the parts of the bus, unless all of the CNG in stored in the rear section along with the engine block.
So, MTA definately will be getting artics in the next few years, even if they have to settle for another alternate fuel. I know MTA is in bed with NABI, but I have a feeling that these artics are going to be Neoplans.
>>> I know MTA is in bed with NABI <<<
I am seeing more and more New Flyer C40LFs on routes that used to be 100% NABI. From a rider's point of view, the New Flyers have better leg room and a slightly smoother ride. The Bus Rider's Union just issued a statement that the LACMTA is at least 200 buses short of the number it needs to meet the federal consent decree's mandate that sufficient buses be operated so there will be no more than eight standees on each bus.
Tom
New NABIs are being assigned to the South Bay.
South Bay is sending Neoplans to Gateway.
Gateway is sending Low Flyers to Central City and Mid-Cities.
Central City is sending NABIs to East San Fernando Valley
Posted by Old Tom on Thu Jul 25 21:49:30 2002,
I am seeing more and more New Flyer C40LFs on routes that used to be 100% NABI.
Interesting. Does anyone know why Ohio law prohibits artics?
>>> Does anyone know why Ohio law prohibits artics? <<<
This is just a guess. It was probably passed as a safety measure along with a prohibition against towed passenger vehicles, but it was probably backed by bus driver unions to prevent larger buses being used resulting in fewer jobs.
Tom
i was wondering who makes the seats for the 9200 series metrobuses. they dont have the hexagonal grab handles on top of the seats. is it possibly an early design from American Seating, who supplies the seats now?
does anyone know why the new nfi c40lf's didnt follow the current seating trend (solid blue vinyl and padded)?
who supplies the seating for the metrorail cars?
The reason why the New Flyer C40LF's seats didn't follow those of the other seats, because these seats are more resistent to vandalism. These might be seen on the new Neoplans and also might be on most of Ride-On buses, some "The Bus" buses and the CUE Gilligs.
Can you name the types of rapid transit/Commuter cars built by the Budd Co.? Remember you should not restrict your list to NYCTA equipment, but try to include ALL transit cars built by Budd.
Sorry! wrong side !!!
Can you name the types of rapid transit/Commuter cars built by the Budd Co.? Remember you should not restrict your list to NYCTA equipment, but try to include ALL transit cars built by Budd.
Take your question to SubTalk.
...but since u insist, the LIRR M1's for starters...
See SubTalk for the rest
Mark
Recently spotted two more cameras taking fake pictures. One almost in my own backyard, on Linden Blvd at 234th street facing East for the Q4
and the second one on North Conduit ave. at Springfield Blvd westbound trying to capture the Q85 but mainly for the automobiles sailing along on the conduit.
BIG AL
How do you know which ones are fake? I have seen many new cameras in Brooklyn and the Bronx. All the new cameras I saw have a little red light that blinks on the top.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin
All the cameras with the red blinking lights are fake. Also, as someone else said, if the base is straight, unlike a regular street light, that means there are no wires going to it. Also, no sensors embedded in the roadway is another clue.
BIG AL
Around where I live, there is one on Cypress Hills St. and Cooper Av(where the B13 turns). I'm not sure if its real or not, how can you tell?
C'mon dude. You're starting to sound like "Busfan". We've posted many times how you can tell the fakes. However, check out my latest post on the phoney cameras.
BIG AL
P.S. stop bashing those Fresh Pond buses!!!
In Mondays issue of one of the New York Tabloids, there was a picture and caption of a Harran Bus. A fire started in the engine compartment and spread into the back of the bus, thankfully the 30 some odd passengers returning from Atlantic City got out safely. It appeared that the bus was a total loss. Anyone with additonal info to share?
I received a letter from NJ Transit customer service yesterday for thanking me for chosing their transit and answer my Flxible Metro questions. You see, I was on vacation last month for a week and I spend that week down in New Jersey visiting my aunt and cousins. I was very excited of this trip because I'm going to see, hear, touch and smell their bus fleet. I was especially looking forward of seeing and riding the Flxible METRO B and D series. Unfornately, I did not have the chance to ride the B series, but I heard the engine and saw them.
It felt real diffent riding the Metro D transit and suburban one dorr because it has the Cummins engine and the ZF Ecomat transmission compare to my hometown transit, TARTA's Flxibles with the Detroit silver 92 engines and Allsion tranny. The ride was smooth, and fast on the #108 line and #72. I rode the new MCI Cruisers from the #190 line from Paterson, NJ-Broadway Terminal to New York. Amazing! I rode the 99/00 RTSs and they were fast. I even rode one on the #108 line from Penn-Station to New York. The ride was sweet!
Back to the letter, she told the Flxible METRO Bs will retire in 2004, but she did not tell which buses will replace them. The Metro Ds are continuing their Mid-life program and when all of them are finish nextyear they will start the Mid-Life on the NovaBus RTS-6A(T80-206) 2600 and 2700 series. I had fun down there and I get to see all the different kinds of buses and major charte companies, MTA NYCT RTSs, one Orion V and MCI Cruisers traveling back to Staten Island in New Jersey. I enjoyed myself and I will come back again and see the system and other things again.
Have a great day!
P.S. I tode you guys that NJ Transit is going to take 3 of their RTSs and rebuild them into Hybrid-electric buses. I think they may look like MTA's 6360 RTS.
-Ronnie
Ronnie,
I've been on the NJ108 before. It's a nice ride for #3.25 you really get your money's worth! Did you say that you was on a NovaBus on the NJ108? I took a Flxible Metro-D both ways....Buses #3772 going and #3742 coming back to NYC. Weird!
Some runs on the 108 do use NOVAs but the majority of the runs use METRO-Ds.
T.Beverett
Here, I wrote the bus numbers down on my notebook for remebrance.
On 6-12-02 I rode RTS-6B(T80-206) coach #1426 on the 108 line from Penn-Station to New York and back. The ride on that bus was awsome. The pick-up was fast considering at that time the AC unit was on. It really moves and flows on the rode and turnpike. We manage to bouce up and down a few times on the turnpike when the bus was blowing speed on some bumps. I really enjoyed that ride and I decided to put bus #1426 as my favorites.
The next day I rode on coach #1804(Flxible Metro D series) on the 72 line from Paterson, NJ at the Broadway Terminal to Newark Penn-Station. From Penn-Station I got on the 108 line that was operated on coach #3772(Flxible Metro D Suburban). Comfortable ride! The seats are great and the ride is smooth, fast a quiet. It feels weird not hearing a Detroit Diesel engine in a Flxible because I'm uses to hearing Flxibles with the Detroit Diesel. I love the new window frame. It's much more attractive than the Metro B and C models. The circular tailights are sweet. Some Flxibles have the LED tailights and don't get me wrong, I like also the wrapped around lights also.
From the Port Authority Bus Terminal I got on coach #8284(MCI Cruiser) and rode it on the 190 line to Paterson, NJ to Broadway Bus Terminal. Oh boy, the ride was completely smooth, quick and awsome!!
On 6-15-02(Saturday) in the morning at 5:30 I walk to the Broadway Terminal and got on the 6a.m. 190 line to go to New York. It was coach #7933(MCI Cruiser). I did some site seeing and went to Times Square. It was amazing!!! That's all I can say folks. I went back to the P.A.B.T. and wait for the 108 line. It was coach #3778. From Newark Penn-Station I rode on the 72 line to Paterson, NJ TO Broadway Terminal. It was coach #1146 a RTS-6B(T80-206). Man it was alot of stop and goes. I can't remember what trip, but it was late morning going on to noon time. The bus was pack and there was a few standees on aboard. I think NJ Transit should expand the timetable on that line on the weekends. The trip operates every hour. It should be every 20 or 30 minutes.
On 6-16-02(Sunday) the last day before I go back home to Toledo, OH I did the same thing I did yesterday. I rode the 190 line from Broadway Terminal to New York. It was coach #7913(MCI CRUISER). I did some site seeing around New York and got futher to Madison Sq. Garden to Times Square. I went back to the P.A.B.T. and waited for the 108 line. You see I really wanted to ride the 107 line because it's operated mainly by Flxibles, and it's like a 1 hr. trip. The enjoyment of a long ride on my favorite buses. I got on coach #3778 and got off at the Penn-Station stop and waited for the 72 line. When it arrived it was a Flxible Metro D series and was about to take its layover. When its layover was over it either pulled away with nothing display on the destination sign or it sat there. Right behind it, it was coach #1291(RTS) on the 72 line.
Those are buses that I rode from NJ Transit. I did mange to see the Weekhawken Bus storage/garage, Meadowlands garage, and Market Street Garage.
Have a great day!
-Ronnie
*Flxibles rule!!!
NJT does have 10 Metro-D's with the Detroit Diesel Engines. #1966-1975. Where did you see 1146 at? That is a Middlesex County Unit.
Jason
Sounds cool ... I'm guessing you stayed in the Paterson area, since that's where you seemed to start your trips.
And yes, the #72 - that's my territory! I used to take that bus all the time going to and from Bloomfield Middle & High School. The MS is located a bit off Broad St at the end of Huck Rd. The bus passes Huck Rd and if you know where to look you can catch a glimpse of the building if you squint.
The 72 passes right in front of BHS, OTOH.
And yes I think that service should definately be increased on that line. I remember a couple of times in the morning while going to MS, the driver wouldn't let me on simply cause he couldn't -- the bus was absolutely packed. People were pressed against the front and rear doors.
But this past Sunday, I had a bad experiance on (or with, I should say) the #72. I was going down to Atlantic City to meet up with my parents who were staying at the Taj since Friday (my mother worships Tom Jones ... go figure ;-) and I couldn't join them till Sunday cause I had to work. So I said I'd go down and join them (I got my own room, though!) and stay Sunday nite since Borders is closed Sunday and I didn't have to be back there till 4 PM Monday.
So I planned on getting the #319 bus that leaves Newark Penn Station at 1:02 PM, arriving in AC Bus Terminal at 3:35. To get to Penn, I planned on getting the #72 from near BHS at around 11:43 PM (the time scheduled for Broad/Liberty) which would get to Penn Station at 12:05, leaving me a full hour and plenty of buffer time. I figured maybe I'd try Cafe 1935, since I never actually tried it.
So I get to the stop just past 11:30, ten minutes before the bus is scheduled to come. And I wait. And wait. And wait. By 12:00 I'm starting to get antsy and edgy. Then I see a 72 going the other way, about 30 minutes off-schedule. By 12:20 I start throwing a shit fit, and I decide to head over to Bloomfield Av so I could catch one of those buses. Then it occured to me - I may not make it to Penn Station in time and if I miss the 1:02, the next one isn't until around 5.
So I decide to screw it and catch the DeCamp #33 bus into the city, which came on time at around 12:40. The plan was to catch the 1:30 #319 bus from the Port Authority.
Now get this: The #33 follows the route of the Paterson-bound 72 for some time. While heading up Broad St, guess what passes us going the other way? The #72? Well, yes. But not just 1 ... 3! Count em, 3 #72 buses pass us (actually the 3rd appeared to be pulled over for no apparant reason). If this is normal for the #72 on Sundays, they should make a note in the schedule -
"On Sundays, please disregard the printed schedule. The #72 will come whenever it damn well pleases, if it comes at all"
But the ball-breaking doesn't end there. At the stop just before the 33 gets on the highway, this guy gets on and has the driver help him load bags underneath the bus, so we're there for a good 5 minutes. Then we get on the highway and the driver is doing about 50. Then eventually a DeCamp 66 blazes past us in the left lane and then out of nowhere, our driver steps on it and hauls ass -- was he WAITING for the 66 to pass him out, or was this like a road rage reaction?
As we're on I-495, my watch says 1:10. So I'm breathing a little easier but then we hit the Lincoln Tunnel helix - and BAM! Congestion ... I'm almost launching myself into the air - we finally arrive at the PABT at 1:27 and right as the bus entered the ramp, I was at the very front, and jumped off the bus a nanosecond after the driver opened the door - and here I go, running like a bat out of hell with my bag through the Port Authority. I run down the escalator, into the north wing and up the escalator to the 300 gates. Arrive at gate 319 to find that the bus didn't even start boarding yet. I didn't even think about getting a ticket since my mind was just on getting the damn bus so I ask the last person in line if I can pay on the bus. The answer is no. Fortunately, TVMs were right there so thank GOD I didn't have to run ALL the way downstairs to the ticket windows, wait in line, then run ALL the way back up. Surely I'd have missed the bus.
But I made it on the 1:30 and as soon as my ass hit the seat in the last row I let out this massive sigh of relief.
And it was all clear skies (or open road) from there. The #319 is a great ride and makes only 1 stop in Toms River en route to Atlantic City. The rest is all cruising on the New Jersey Turnpike, Garden State Parkway and Atlantic City Expressway - there was no traffic on this day and this driver was hauling ass! Sitting in the last row, I was bounced around like crazy as this guy weaved between lanes passing a lot of slower traffic! It was a sweet ride and just barely half full- I was on MCI 7796, one of the handful of NJT buses equipped with a toilet, so even though I had the last row to myself, it was 3 seats instead of 5. Not that anyone actually used it, but I guess it's possible - there's no arguing when you really gotta go and your stuck on a 3 hour bus ride!
So the next time you're in town (or state, whatever), try the #319 if you have time. It's full route is New York or Newark/Jersey City to Toms River, Atlantic City, the Wildwoods and Cape May.
There's only 2-3 trips from Newark/Jersey City per day, depending on day and time of year, so the bulk of the trips go to/from New York.
And the irony of getting 7796 is that you were riding a South Jersey bus (7796 operates out of Egg Harbor Garage). =)
Hey C. Trabs,
With your NJ Transit section closed, I was woundering when will you have up the NJ Transit Bus Assignments by Garage? I'm guessing you're waiting you're tallying up those MCI Commuter buses and the buses that are being switch from one garage to another.
The ten Flxible METRO D buses of NJ Transit with the Detroit series 50 engine in them was the other bus I want to ride. I have not ride a Flxible with a series 50 engine. Again, here at TARTA are 1993 Flxible Metro Ds have the silver 92TA or T. I'm not sure of the lettering, but it sounds different than are 1988 Flxible Metro Bs that have the silver 92s.
You see I thought those NJ Transits 10 METROs with the Detroits ran on the Elizebeth routes, but I know they sometimes will run the #62 line wich goes to Penn-Station. I never spotted one on the 62 line.
Okay, with that series 50, what kind of transmission do they have? Is it a 3, 4, or 5 speed? Also, is the retarder included?
Thanks and have a great day!
-Ronnie
Usually the Series 50 has a 5-speed and a retarder...never rode a Flx with one, but I'd like to try it out. Should be interesting.
-F.
Yeah, inquiring minds want to know. Also, what about the NYCT bus assignments. Those have been down the same time as NJT. Again, aer ou waiting until everything is finalized?
Apparently fuel cell bus technology is one step closer to producing a viable transit bus
http://www.eyeforfuelcells.com/ReportDisplay.asp?ReportID=1495
A Cummins ISC engine and Voith D863 (V Drive) transmission on a New Look or Classic would be interesting
...
Stephen
Would a Cummins ISC even FIT??? And if it did FIT, would it weigh too much for the frame/cradle? I can just see it now, engine sitting on street with a nice bend in the body at about the point where the rear of the rear wheelwells is.....GM fishbowls had a tendency to do this.
So they were....FLEXIBLE buses? LOL!!!
Well, Cummins claims that they are 1000lbs lighter...
I'd like to see an ISL/Voith combo in one...in fact, that would be my dream setup for rehabbing a Flx Metro if need be...or if, God willing, MCI makes a new Metro...that would be perfect!
-F.
Well, I always like to be on a Flx Metros with M11 and Voith that were built around 1993-1994. They remind me Dennis Dragon buses with the same combo in HK especially when sitting at the front seat.
VTA is currently repowering their 92 Metro with ISM. However, they seem to sound similarly with their original LT10, not much different though.
Also, VTA has 4 93 Metros with Series 50. I don't know why but they are extremely quiet....
Really? The Gilligs here with S50s sound like noisy lawnmowers. Funny how different buses sound unique with the same engine.
A 6V71-powered RTS is barely audible, but you can really hear it in a Flx!
-F.
Fred,
You are so right. I thought about this yesterday when I was next to a Greyhound MC-12. I find the MC-12's (or any MCI with the 6V92TA) to be relatively quiet, but earlier I had seen an Eagle 10 with the same engine and they're pretty loud. I realize the transmission and exhaust often makes a difference in the sound, but it's still a bit strange how different the same engine can sound in different vehicles.
Wayne
Very true. A really good example is our 1976 Flx New Look and the 1979 Grumman at CC&T; both have the 6v71 with Allison V730, but the Flx has more of a roar, while the Grumman has more of a space-age whistle. Also, the New Look has a "power clunk" between first and second, while the Grumman smoothly shifts. Each sound uniquely fits each coach's looks to a tee, but I always thought that was interesting. What a difference three years can make!
Another interesting note; the 1987 Flx Metro Bs at nearby Blacksburg Transit have the same combo as the Grumman above, but in those you hear the transmission whine more than the engine. Could it be because the Grumman has the roof exhaust while the Metro has it below the bumper, or is it a soundproofing deal between those years?
-Fred
Fred,
It could be. Perhaps because the Metro may have an updated version of the same tranny.
Wayne
Could be. Usually when anything mechanical is done to a transmission, it sounds different. Mom had a 1979 Dodge Aspen which lost its tranny; when it was rebuilt, it never sounded the same.
-F.
What is going on with that??? Recently ive seen 9285 on the Q3, 621 on the Q1, 9294 on the Q2, 116 on the Q76 and 9331 on the B64.
Because they are not needed on express routes anymore. MCI coaches have taken their place.
What's with the LOCAL sticker in red and white below the bus number - saw 9314 like this?
Like the people actually know by the bus number if it is a suburban or not - at least not until they enter the bus??
Once a suburban coach enters service on a local route it starts to get abused. That sticker tells personel not to put it on an express route if they need a suburban there.
I still would like to ride bus #3818 on the Q5. Just one time before it gets scrapped....
add #4873 on the M34 today and #110 on the Q32.
I always find it amusing when people in here get so worried about the "suburban" NYCTA buses run on "transit" routes. So, the people get softer seats. Does that really matter? The buses are old anyway, they have been replaced by newer buses on the "suburban" routes.
Now if you REALLY want to complain about a suburban bus on a transit route, you go back to the 1970's and cry when you see a REAL suburban bus -- with ONE door -- assigned to a heavy transit route. SCRTD in Los Angeles was good for doing this, one of their 3000-series GM S8M5303A's would wind up on a heavy local route (like the 9 to Huntington Park) because the dispatcher at Division 1 ran out of two-door transits.....
Hey I am overjoyed that they put the suburbans on the local routes...its great to have a soft seat!!! I just hope they dont convert the seats to the hard seats...that would suck!
LOL....might we be faced with the same problem here in New York one day when a depot runs out of local buses and is forced to put one of the MCIs into local service?
Never unless an extreme emergency. I think that was the case on 9/11 and when JG lost its CNG for a few days and borrowed buses from other depots - and had MCIs (4 in total I Believe) on the B64 B74.
Not only that, but we seem to go through this once a month. Isn't the first explanation enough?
Use the search form at BusTalk... it does work.
Suburbans do have less standing room than transits and have even worse passenger circulation. On a busy route, suburbans hurt service.
Very true. While the seats may be comfortable, their large size makes for a very narrow aisle. On crowded routes with high passenger turnover, that can be a big problem. Back in December I rode an RTS suburban on the B1 from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge. There were constant arguments, some close to the point of physical violence, till Bay Parkway.
That some people bring open strollers or shopping wagons on board makes things even worse.
The ability to recline ones seat almost into the lap of the passenger behind oneself can also lead to conflict.
I did the Operation Planning on Tuesday 7/23 on Run 8 on B1 & i has a surburbans bus #9307 & #9330. In the morning heading to Manhattan Beach it got crowded starting @ Bay Parkway all the way to last stop @ Manhattan total 79 people on the bus & most of them standing on the step in the front. This lady start argument to me about why 3 buses running @ the same time & she have to wait 25 mintues for the next bus. I explain to her because of people taking so long to get on the bus, heavy traffic & road close @ Bay Ridge Av between 4th Av to 6th Av But she don't believe me than she start argument with me again & this time i told her if you don't like waiting for bus than take a cab than she argument with again & this time i don't listen until she kept her mouth shut until the last stop. I had 3 argument during all day & those people on the bus are very rude & got no respect on B1. BTW: Surburban Buses doesn't belong any local routes during the weekday & the weekend it ok to used surburban Buses to run on local routes.
David
well,until either Ulmer Park gets local buses to supplement the 9300's that they have or TA decides to convert the buses from soft to hard seat-looks like we stuck with them.
#4497-B1(Still Running)
Suburban Buses are Good here in Queens. I see more of the Suburban Buses on Weekends more often then on Weekdays on the Q30/Q31 and Q46.
Ridership on the Q30/Q31 is a bit light and on the Q46 sometimes it gets 1/2 Full and sometimes about all the seats are taken.
They better on weekend service where there's not alot of people rideing buses
Was that the broad whose letter was published on the editorial page of the NY Daily News the other day saying that NYPD and NYFD personel should get raises with money used to cut the salaries of transit workers?
In the mid-80's, a 3800-series suburban would pop up on occasion on the M18 (modern day M86). It got very crowded very fast, but the seats were comfortable if I managed to get one (and they didn't recline).
Yes, back in those days OHS depot regularly assigned express buses to the M18 route - especially back in the early 80's with the GMC TDH-5303AC (8000 series) and T6H-5310A (4500-4505).
Wayne
Man, I'm glad the Q58 doesn't have to deal with this, because if a 9200/9300 was put on this route things would get very ugly!
The 4880, 4881, and 4884 cause no problems for any of FP's busy routes.
i remember a while back that someone mentioned about some bus companies other than Greyhound and the like that took people to places like Miami places beyond.i think they left from around Grand St or something like that?who or what are these bus companies and can anyone provide with significant info about them?
My friend and I were talking about lost bus routes such as the Q5ALS (225th St), Q44B (Q71…if it stuck around), Q49, Q86, and Q89. There are some streets in Queens that are big enough to support buses. We were talking about streets such as:
73rd Av between 188th St and Main St
Francis Lewis Blvd between Springfield Blvd and Brookville Blvd (and yes a bus can fit between 130th Av and Merrick Blvd on Francis Lewis Blvd).
Utopia Pkwy between 46th Av and Francis Lewis Blvd.
These are just some of the streets that we discussed. Now, I’m going to write a letter to NYCT to see if they like my idea of using these streets by rerouting or extending bus routes or even creating new routes. What do you guys think? I already made up bus routes such the NEW Q49, Q51, Q52….etc. I can post them on here ONLY if you guys want me too. Besides, these NEW routes could ease up on other routes such as the Q17, Q27, Q46 and Q85 with passengers due to the strike!
Certainly those streets (from what I know of them) COULD handle buses, but that doesn't mean that bus routes should be put there.
For example, a route on 73rd Avenue from 188th Street to Main Street would parallel the Q46 service on Union Turnpike, two (long) blocks away. That neighborhood is nearly all single family homes, and it would seem that the population density there wouldn't warrant a new route along 73rd Avenue when the Q46 is available. Further, there is vitually no shopping along that stretch of 73rd Avenue, nothing to attract riders from other areas to use the route.
I'm not familiar with the particulars of the other streets you mentioned, so I can't comment on those, but I don't think a route along 73rd Avenue from 188th Street to Main Street would be a good idea.
I live around there...and like you said...#1 it doesnt warrant a new bus route there and #2 we would protest against a new bus route there. There is enough polution and traffic...we dont need more buses created more noise and traffic.
Tell that to the people on 150th St and the grand Central pkwy before they got screwed by the MTA with the Q44 going to Main St. I know some people wh are pissed off wih that.
***Further, there is vitually no shopping along that stretch of 73rd Avenue, nothing to attract riders from other areas to use the route.***
Same with the Q30, Q31 on Utopia Pkwy between Union Tpke ad Horace Harding Expwy, huh?
Q17 between Hillside Av and 73rd Av, huh?
Pretty much the same thing. However, I do see your point.
Well, in the case of the Q30/31 between the Horace Harding and Union Tpke., it's simply moving down a major street from one "dense" area to another, and it happens to go through a residential area.
Isn't about time WMATA took those banners off of the Orion VIs. Those buses are not new and parts of those buses aren't dependable. For one the back doors always seem to have problems, and even some of them, when they first came out, the A/C didn't work too well. I have three suggestions for covering up that italicized METROBUS logo, if WMATA wanted to cover it up. And they are:
1) BUS-O-RAMA
2) Put up a banner with a smiley face and a caption saying "Hey least
it's not an Orion 7 or
3) Put the same banner but with a different caption saying "Hey least
this not a Champion Contender.
The New Flyers won't have this on it and even the banner they do have is not on all of their buses, only about half of them. I am just glad that 2000-2008, 2009, 2026, 2045, 2053 and 2082-2099 doesn't have these banners on them.
I was in downtown today and all the Orion VIs I saw had the tacky Metrobus thing on the top. No numbers recorded, sorry.
Got any pics of this thing?
Sure do! Both taken in October of 2000.
http://www.geocities.com/otpdcpics2/dcorion23.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/otpdcpics2/dcorion24.jpg
Great shot! Yeah, the MetroBus thing at the top looks out of place...maybe they could at least jazz it up with some striping to match the lower parts?
I saw 2042 without that stupid banner. Also I am starting to see a lot of buses with the METROOPPENSDOOR.COM sticker on some of the buses, and also saw it on the back of 5212 and a 30' flxible that was repainted from its Ride On service.
Today:
4309, the bus with the Balios destination signs, was on the even 30s. I saw it at Archives this morning but I was unable to take a picture. Didn't see it again today and I have been at Friendship Heights multiple times.
Ride-On 5409 was on the 1 at about 12:30 this afternoon. I got some pictures on the digital and hope to get them up today.
Many NABIs have been repainted. A few were still in the old color scheme.
The Friendship Heights reroutes are getting better as people become more familiar with them. Hechts is still a mess, since the island is very small, there is not much space for people to wait, and the island is no more than 60 feet long.
If there are such plans for a X35 bus, where will this bus operate between & what streets would it use in Manhattan & on Staten Island.
It will operate between my house and my employers' office on Whitehall Street. I will be the only person allowed to use it. I may allow others to use it depending on what mood I'm in.
Busfan, why don't you check the MTA/NYCT Bus info website for this kind of info. By the way, where did YOU hear that an "x35" bus was in our future??
---
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/bus/bussrvno.htm
Isn't it weird that M15 buses as well as all the other buses on 3 Ave
arrive in clusters. There was one time at my stop at 72 and 3rd that
there was a total of 8 buses, one behind the other. weird huh?
[Isn't it weird that M15 buses as well as all the other buses on 3 Ave arrive in clusters. There was one time at my stop at 72 and 3rd that there was a total of 8 buses, one behind the other. weird huh?]
No, it's not weird. Bunching is a fact of life in densely-built and heavily-populated urban environments with clogged roads which buses must share with everybody else.
U aint kidding about 3rd ave ( manhattan )
Around 34 th st I saw 4 M102 Artics ( Quill ) and 3 Rts (from MAnhattanville )in one stop or lets say Block . On the next corner 3 Liberty Express MCI s in another stop.
Traffic was a mess as the cabs cut into em and the buses all had to go two lanes out to pass .
The 10 and sometimes 12 buses were all together till we passed 42nd and were able to space out .With the Express buses finally getting by the locals .All of the buses took up about three blocks when they were back to back .
What's really weird is that you saw M15 buses on 3rd Avenue. M15 operates on 1st and 2nd Avenues. M101, 102, 103 operate on 3rd Avenue.
Michael
No, I didn't see M15 on 3 Ave. I used it as an example. I put 3 Ave services because there are too many routes to put in for the subject.
But in a way it does look weird. I'll fix it next time.
Since when does the M15 run on 3rd Avenue?
Bunching is a natural consequence of delays. Let's say all your buses are running perfectly on-schedule until one of them falls just a hair behind. The gap in front of it is longer than it's supposed to be, so the crowd waiting to board is larger -- and that causes the bus to fall even further behind schedule. At the same time, the gap behind it is shorter than it's supposed to be, so the crowd waiting to board the next bus is smaller -- and, unless it slows down to stick to the schedule, that causes that bus to creep ahead of schedule. What happens when one bus keeps falling behind schedule and the next one keeps creeping ahead of schedule? They eventually meet in the middle.
(The same thing happens on the subway, BTW, especially on busy locals -- the 1 is perhaps the most notorious.)
I have no idea why bunches develop beyond pairs. From this logic it would appear that the bus behind the second would fall behind schedule (bunching with the bus behind it). Anybody have an explanation?
When I regularly rode the M104 in the late 80's and early 90's, it often ran in packs of six.
I remember a driver telling me many years ago that operators DIDN'T have permission to pass buses on the same route. If they did, they would run ahead of schedule but protect the schedule of the bus or buses that were behind schedule.
Michael
I don't know what the current rule is. I know back in the 80's and early 90's buses passed other buses all the time.
I was thinking of including that in my brief analysis, but I don't think it makes a difference. If the second bus doesn't pass the first, the two stick together forever. If the second bus does pass the first, it gets only one stop ahead before it gets clobbered by the crowds. In either case, the two buses remain no more than a stop apart.
Its weird you're finding M15s on 3rd Avenue for starters......................weird huh?
orion V 4309 (with the ballios LED signs) was on the 30 line today. i ended up riding on the 4:57 pm northbound route 32 (i beleieve) from van ness st. to friendship heights metro, plus i took a picture of this oddity.
I posted about that earlier. I saw it down at Archives but didn't see it again all day. Did it have a W or an S in the route block? Remember, some even 30 runs come from Southern, not Western!
The T2 was late again today, meaning I walked into the class I am taking just as it began. If this keeps up, Metro is getting a call. I witnessed the bus passing by my stop in the opposite direction at the time it was due to leave the terminal to come get me. The run is MT12, I've seen this run running late before.
I saw it (4309) on the S/B 32 at Wisconsin & Mass Ave today at approx 5:20 PM.
Wayne
My sighting was at Archives at about 9:45 or 10, I think. I wasn't too focused on the time. Did anyone see the route block?
It is housed at Western. Last week I saw it at the Friendship Heights Station, when it was still open underneath, and waited for it to warm so its sign could be turned, so I could take a pic, but the darn thing wouldn't move so after 30 minutes of waiting, I just got on 9325 and left. I was at 15th and H Streets, hoping it would come, but after another hour of waiting, I just headed for home. I saw it again Monday, running for the 42.
Here is a thing about one reason to stick with high floor buses. When I was riding 9325, the wheelchair lift had to be used. Now you think with a wheelchair lift it would take some time, IT DIDN'T. The driver knew what to do and the loading took only over a minute or so. If WMATA is thinking about going to an all low floor fleet, DON'T.
Is there any plans to repower the 4000 series buses?
Ewww, no not those...
no junk yard for them
I was thinking the same thing:)
To AE2005:
They aren't going to be repowered. There are many new buses that are coming so the 3900-4899 have no place to stay. Some of them will get sold but most of them will eventually get scrapped.
Oh God no, I think they should be shot for repowering the low 8000 series. The new Series 50's run like garbage and rattle like crazy. I understand the new ones have to be built as such, but why repower a perfectly running 6V92? They're quieter, smoother running engines. I just hope I can ride 3818 before Jamaica scraps it. Just one time....
Those series 50 engines are great! I think its better on the 8000 than on the Orions.
they are repowering all buses built after 1990 because the federal gov`t will no subsidize transit if the buses don`t meet the epa standards. the series 50 meets all standards while the v92 doesn`t. so all the 8000`s were built after 1990 so therefore they must be repowered!!!
The 6V-92 engines on NYCT's 1990 RTSs (and all NYCT buses that have them) met the EPA standards in effect at the time they were built, which is all that is required. Nevertheless, the 1990-and-up 6V-92 buses are being repowered in response to claims, particularly by residents of upper Manhattan, that diesel particulates are responsible for high rates of asthma and other medical conditions in their neighborhoods. These people blamed NYCT for the entire problem and made it an issue with their elected officials, thus the repowering.
The new engines run several times as cleanly as those they are replacing, especially on the new ultra-low-sulfur fuel the buses are now using.
David
the federal gov`t did tell the mta that all buses built after 1990 had to meet the standards they set for 2003. they would not give subsidize the mta if this goal wasn`t met.
This is not so. If it were, it would be true for every transit system in the country that receives federal funding, which, obviously, it isn't, since not all buses in the country that were built with pre-Series 50 technology engines are being replaced or repowered
While NYCT receives federal operating and capital assistance, it does NOT receive federal funding for bus replacements. Those are funded through other means (state, local, and bonds).
David
Has anyone seen 5599 and 5600 on the streets yet? They're Southern Buses so their whereabouts are confined to North, South, and West Philly.
yes i have on the 17.
Let's not forget about Center City (2, 17, 47, 47m, and 57) or even the Airport area (37, 68, 108). And, of course, Northeast Philadelphia (only the 5, but I have yet to hear of anything other than a Neo on the 5 from either Frankford or Southern).
Here's something that I don't believe has ever been discussed on bustalk. And I can never have the time to monkey around with one of the museum buses in the depots. Does anyone know how the emergency lights on the newlook GMC Fishbowls and Flxibles worked? For instance, did they flash or did they just stay on steady? Also, was the button in the same place as they are now on the current buses or was it someplace else? If it's in the same place, just say so. Please don't post the location on this board. However, if it was someplace else, then posting the location won't matter. The reason why I'm asking this is because I don't believe I ever saw the emergency lights lit on any GMC newlook, nor have I ever seen them lit on a 9000 series Flxible. I only remember seeing them lit steady on a 7600 Flxible that used to run on the Q4 occasionaly when I was in H.S. And at the time, I thought they were merely FOG LIGHTS!
BIG AL
They flashed along with ALL the other outside lights on the bus. Don't know where the switch is now, since it might be the same place I won't say.
Peace,
ANDEE
I've seen them on steady, but most of the time they flashed along with the other lights.
Wayne
Noticed something odd this morning. I've known for a long time that NYCTA stamps the bus number into the lower right corner of the rear license plate. This morning, while driving to work, I happened to be behind rebuilt RTS 7036, and noticed that the number stamped on the plate was 2662. (Don't quote me on that....it was 26something, but I'm not sure of the last two digits.) So, I figured that when the bus was rebuilt, it kept its old plates with the old bus number. Then a few minutes later, I was behind rebuilt RTS 7034, and the number stamped into the plate was 7034! Anyone know what's up?
Were they two different plates (ie, Liberty plates vs. Empire plates)? Could also be they lost one plate, in which case the bus would recieve a new pair.
-Hank
Both buses had Liberty plates....I did not take note of the actual plate numbers. If these rebuilts were all supposed to have their old plates, with the original bus numbers stamped on them, then the lost plate theory makes sense.
The remanufactured 7000 series buses were renumbered by the NYCTA. This has nothing to do with the NYSDMV registration. The VIN number remains the same, as does the plate number, regardless of what the TA does with the appearance of the bus. Bus numbers are used by the TA only, and not the DMV. This makes the numbers valuable only in appearance, and only with respect to TA operations.
The stamp of the original 1xxx/2xxx was probably faded and invisible from your distance in the lower LEFT-HAND corner of the 7000!
In practice, both numbers should be stamped on the license plate. It's also possible that the front plate has the newer number while the rear has the older- or vice/versa, which makes no difference.
To find out, simply question the driver. Both numbers are indicated on the registration card inside each bus.
Actually Brooklyn67, I noticed also some time ago that most of the 7000's and 7500's have both the old and new numbers stamped on the plates, while some have only the 7000 and 7500 number stamped on it. On the one's with only the 7000/7500 number, I checked both the front and rear and it was the same. There clearly was never an original bus number ever stamped on them. The only explanation is that the plates were in fact changed for some reason or another, either because one was lost, resulting in the other plate having to be changed also, or the plates were so worn out and illegible, transit decided to change them by reregistering the bus.
BIG AL
I checked with maintenence. I was informed that before the plates were stamped, they used simple marking pens. Is this true?
I'm not too familiar with the intricasies of maintenence.
That is absolutely not true. At least since I've been with transit. I remember when I was in training 8 years ago, one of the first things I was taught is that when you do your 19-A pre-trip, you should check the stamped number on the plate to make sure it matches the bus number. (like anybody really does that?) Anyway, they were stamped on back then and I've never seen one written with a marking pen.
BIG AL
I didn't think it was true. The guy said a few other things I didn't agree with. Thanks for the confirmation AL..
Interesting - I saw 3809 with a C648xx plate Liberty Plate - and this was from 1985 - should be in the AXXXX series
Other plates relating to the identifying the pic post
75xx - C25170
9187 - C24173
9194 - C24170
9210 - C24194
9203 - C24199
The license plates don't follow the same order as the fleet numbers I guess.
I've been observing this route and plan to take a ride on it since it goes through areas I haven't really been to:
1) The route starts at Jamaica Center along with several other routes. Is Jamaica Center on the street, or is it in St. George Ferry style like a bus terminal without each route having its own lane?
2) The bus proceeds down Merrick Blvd. What looks like a long line down the map is only 24 minutes on the schedule to Rosedale LIRR station. Is Merrick Blvd in highway format, and how many stops does the route make down the line? It can't be as many as it seems.
3) While I do admit this question is slightly off-topic, this bus goes through Springfield Gardens, and it takes eight whole minutes to make a half-square from 233 St to Rosedale LIRR Sta. Is this area citylike {as the schedule makes it seem} or is it suburban, and is it a good area to be around? All opinions welcome.
4) This route appears to be the only one that goes into Nassau County to the Green Acres Mall. Is it true this is the only route. There are one or more routes on Jamaica Ave that appear to clear the border as well, but I can't tell if they do.
Any/all responses are greatly appreciated.
[This route appears to be the only one that goes into Nassau County to the Green Acres Mall. Is it true this is the only route]
The Q85 goes to Green Acres Mall also.
Yes that's right, and that was right in front of my face on the map. My bad.
Who else to describe the Q5 Merrick route to you than "Q5Merrick".
The Q5 generally runs through downtown Jamaica and its terminus is on the street at Archer and Parsons, however, it is under a canopy-style "terminal". It has two major pick-up stops along Archer Avenue at Parsons Blvd and at Merrick Blvd. If you ride the Green Acres bus (recommended) the 5 will pick up a few more passengers at major transfer points along Merrick Blvd--Linden, Baisley, Farmers, and Springfield Blvds. Otherwise, it drops off much more than it picks up.
The 24 minutes you see on the schedule has to be for the night bus (hawk). Generally, it takes 35-40 minutes to complete the trip to the mall. The 8 minutes from 233rd Street to Rosedale Station seems like a bit much, but the area is heavily trafficked and is "citylike".
As far as the actual street of Merrick Blvd, it is a four-lane (two each direction) street, with a center island and left turn bays. The street starts as a one-way (south) extension of 166th Street between Hillside and Liberty Avenues, where it merges with one-way (north) 168th Street to form the four-lane thoroughfare. It looks a lot like Union Tpke. Hillside Ave, Jamaica Ave (east of 168th St), and Northern Blvd also resemble Merrick.
As for the area, it actually gets better as you travel further east. South Jamaica is home to The Greater Allen Cathedral (at 111th Ave) St. Albans features Roy Wilkens Park (at Foch Blvd), Springfield Gardens features the new Pathmark Shopping Center (at Springfield Blvd), Laurelton (home of "Q5Merrick") is a quiet residential community where Merrick is one of two main street (Francis Lewis Blvd being the other), and finally Rosedale is another quiet middle-class community.
Have fun...I also recommend riding the Q84 for a nice peaceful ride through Cambria Heights, and the Q85 for the grand tour of SE Queens.
Mark
Who else to describe the Q5 Merrick route to you than "Q5Merrick".
My thoughts exactly... LOL
[There are one or more routes on Jamaica Ave that appear to clear the border as well, but I can't tell if they do.]
The outermost section of Jamaica Avenue, between 225th Street and 256th Street, is actually two streets in one. The double-yellow divider forms the Queens-Nassau border, so that the westbound lanes (Jamaica Avenue) are in Queens and the eastbound lanes (Jericho Turnpike) are in Nassau County.
Can anybody help me out with this? I have checked on the MTA website but did not find the information I was looking for.
The afternoon Q46 weekday service leaving from Kew Gardens has 3 stops. One is the Q46 that terminates at Springfield Blvd. One that is the Q46 limited to Glen Oaks/260th street. The last one is the Q46 to Lake Success/LIJ Hospital.
Now...here is my question. I usually take the Q46 Limited Glen Oaks and get off at 188th street then walk a little(I refuse to take the local that stops every two blocks). Yesterday I saw the Q46 Lake Success/LIJ Hospital bus with a LIMITED sign. Where does this limited stop? Does it make the same stops as the Q46 Glen Oaks Limited? Can anyone post for me the stops that the Q46 Lake Success Limited makeS?
Thanks.
Federico
Logically, both limited services would make the same limited stops. I can't personally verify this, but I would be surprised if this is not the case.
My friend...the MTA is uses everything but logic....unfortunately....if they did...I would not have to post this question.
well you definately didnt have too,all limited buses,whether it serves more than one destination will always make the same limited stops and this applies for all routes which have limited stop service.
At times when limited service is running, the Q46 buses to Glen Oaks and the ones to LIJ both run limited, and make the same stops. Only the buses marked Springfield Blvd. run local. At least that's the way it was when I last used the Q46 service, which frankly was about four months ago. I doubt it has changed since then, though.
Since the last limited stop on the eastbound Q46 is Springfield Blvd, you may use either bus for 188th Street. The only difference between the Glen Oaks branch and the LIJ/Lakeville Rd service is the turn-off from Union Turnpike onto 260th Street serving Glen Oaks.
All limited buses make the same stops:
Westbound: All stops to Springfield Blvd, 188th Street, Utopia Parkway, 164th Street*, 150th Street*, Main Street, Kew Gardens Subway Station.
Eastbound: Kew Gardens Station, "The Courthouse" (the next stop, which is the first stop on Union Turnpike), Main Street, Utopia Parkway, 188th Street, Springfield Blvd then regular local stops.
*Note: Officially, 164th Street and 150th Street were added to the westbound limited trips, but NOT eastbound, although some operators do indeed stop there.
I haven't worked the Q46 since last year, but on the route description (Official NYCTA Face Sheet) dated 04/01/02, the above information is correct.
Thanks for the info! I can tell you that Eastbound..just about all the operators stop on 164th street on the Limited service(and some do not stop at the courthouse...especially when the bus is full...although some will stop at the courthouse even though there is nobody getting off and there is no room for anyone else to get on...mindboggling I tell you). This helps me though...at least I know now that I can take either one to 188th. Thanks again.
Federico
Thanks for the info!
You're welcome!
I can tell you that Eastbound..just about all the operators stop on 164th street on the Limited service
I know. They probably don't realize it's not a limited stop eastbound, UNLESS it's been changed on the summer face sheet. I will check tomorrow and let you know.
(and some do not stop at the courthouse...especially when the bus is full...
Well that's policy. A full bus is a full bus, no matter where it becomes full. For those who don't stop there when they're "less than full", they're supposed to.
although some will stop at the courthouse even though there is nobody getting off and there is no room for anyone else to get on...mindboggling I tell you).
There's usually a bus right in front of them, or they're too early to get into Main Street, where a dispatcher is booking buses. They're just waiting their time legally by making a bus stop.
This helps me though...at least I know now that I can take either one to 188th.
Yes you can.
Thanks again.
No problem!
I remember the Q46 to Springfield Blvd! When I was living on 169th St between 84th Av and Gothic Dr (a block south of the grand Central Pkwy) I remember riding my bike over to 168th St overpass betwen the hours of 4:00-7:00 to watch the Q46 LTD deadheading back to Kew Gardens via Grand Central Pkwy. Also, during the morning, my school (P.S. 131), I would watch the buses racing up the Grand Central Pkwy going east to Springfield Blvd. This was back in 1989-1991 so I do remember the Blitz buses (#5270-5284 and #5341-5364) and other RTS-04 buses. Those were the days. Oh, BTW...during the morning I would see a bus going west on the GCP. I believe this use to be the Q46 to 80th Dr-Utopia Pkwy (outside of St. John's. I'm not sure if that route still exists. However, it does show you that I remember the Q46 in it's glory days!
Well, I checked the official NYCTA face sheet (route description) for the Q-46 which is dated 7/01/02 (Schedule #102628 Pick C2 for David & Mark).
Apparently, 164th Street and 150th Street are Limited Stops WESTBOUND ONLY. They are NOT listed as limited stops on the eastbound trips.
Therefore, LIMITED BUSES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO STOP AT 150th Street and 164th Street EASTBOUND.
Interesting. I was on the Q46 Limited yesterday EASTBOUND and it stopped both at 150th and 164th street. Maybe the B/O's did not read the fine print where it says WESTBOUND. Is it clear on the sheet you speak of?
Looks pretty clear to me concerning the PM trips. I wonder why the B/O's do not pay attention to it? I have not been on a LIMITED that has not stopped at 150th and 164th on the PM limited Eastbount. They all do. Maybe they should remind the B/O's that these stops are not included.
It's probably a depot directive, which means there is no extra running time built into the schedule to accomodate the 2 extra unscheduled stops.
This is something the union has to address in the next pick. I'll see to that.
Ummm...thanks for the information, but I never commented on this thread before now.
David
I included your name and Marks name so you could reference the face sheet via schedule number, had you the interest.
As mentioned previously, the Q46 is a NEW sechedule for the fall pick. Check out the running times and get back to me via e-mail.
Mark
Brooklyn67 just thought he'd inform the group that he finally had his bushes and hedges cut. Now, he can safely enter his home without snagging his uniform.
:o
Keeping the gardening dream alive!
Congratulations! Now of only we could get Parks and Rec down here to keep the shrubs and trees off the damned bus stop signs!
-F.
Saw another pair of buses on TV today. In the music video for "Days Go By" by Dirty Vegas, a man is break dancing old-school style in broad daylight to the tune. Meanwhile, an LA Metro Neoplan rolls by, as does a red and white NABI low floor. Not sure if that one was an LA bus, but it did have Alcoa wheels and silver aluminum window trim.
This is not quite what I expected the video to be like; for those of you familiar with "Days Go By", it is the techno-pop dance beat heard in the Mitsubishi Spyder commercial. From the sound of it, I would have expected plenty of hot chicks bumping and grinding in a nightclub. But what a pleasant surprise to see buses!
And of course, a silver Mitsubishi rolls up just for fun and gags...:)
Anyone else seen any buses on TV or in the movies?
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I'll have to check that btw. "Days go by" is an excellent tune!
Yeah, it's tight; very catchy for sure. Makes me wanna go clubbin'! :)
-F.
That red and white NABI sounds like an LA Metro Rapid bus.
That's what I figured. Neat paint scheme for a newer bus. You don't see a lot of red/white combos anymore...not since the New Looks.
-F.
http://www.mta.net/metro_transit/rapid_bus/metro_rapidf.htm
---
Posted by Flxible on Wed Jul 24 14:39:54 2002
an LA Metro Neoplan rolls by, as does a red and white NABI low floor. Not sure if that one was an LA bus, but it did have Alcoa wheels and silver aluminum window trim.
Wow, that is really cool. I wish M.S.B.A. buses had special sensors to keep traffic lights green when the bus is approaching.
Wow...what a neat graphic. Check it out, folks!
http://www.mta.net/metro_transit/rapid_bus/metro_rapidf.htm
-F.
I thought Mr. Bloomberg knew about the fact that transit boosts land value (hence, tax revenue).
http://www.tstc.org/bulletin/20020722/mtr37502.htm
Time to dig in the pockets for LOTS of loose change.
Heard this from a driver on the b64 today. The X27 and X28 will both have weekend service beginning in September. Service will operate every 30 minutes. There are a total of 25 runs for the X27 and 26 runs for the X28. Also, Ulmer Park will have 16 runs for the "F" Shuttle. My question is, does Ulmer Park have enough buses to cover the runs-or are more buses comning over?
#9309-B64-NOVABUS
Close.
SATURDAY: 11 runs on the X2737, 15 runs on the X2838, TOTAL 26.
SUNDAY: 9 runs on the X2737, 13 runs on the X2838, TOTAL 22.
As for FSHUT, it's 12 weekday runs and 8 runs each Saturday and Sunday. I forget the weekday peak bus requirement, but it's something like 3 or 4 at the most.
And as for QSHUT (supplemental weekday service on the B68), Ulmer Park will provide 3 afternoon extras. 3 buses will be required, but since more buses are required to serve Ulmer Park's local routes in the morning than in the afternoon, no additional vehicles are needed.
I'm not privy to the equipment moves, but it seems to me that with Ulmer Park having just received a bunch of MCIs (so the X29 can have 'em, too, along with the X2737 and X2838), there are 17 or so RTSs already at the depot that are no longer needed for express service and can be used on any local route in the depot, so it may not be necessary to move any buses around. (The weekend express service is to use the MCIs, which right now just sit in the yard from Friday night to Monday morning.)
David
Not much really happened but some are worth noting
1) 8892 was on the W13, sign was not working properly, it had four N's and instead of EXPRESS/ FARRAGUT SQUARE, it just said EXPRESS/SQUARE,
2) Not many New Flyer sightings today, only really on the 83 and 86,
3) I thought I saw 4349 on an S route, and 4012 was a loaner to Montgomery, it was on its regular 14th Street route, G2.
BLX says this, the fare actually went down with the introduction of metrocard. Free bus/subway and vice versa transfers. Free ride on a $15 card. So BLX asks, who can complain if the fare goes up? BLX asks all those transit purists who recall riders getting off the bus then paying another token for the subway. Those people had their transit costs cut in half. Nobody beefs that the Postal Service jacked up the stamp from 34 to 37 cents. Perhaps those that utilize postal products refrain from complaints for fear of a postal worker having negative thoughts, and then, watch out. BLX is the voice of the people, not corporate America. In Japan companies have a ratio from the head of a company to the lowest paid worker. That means the CEO/Pres. of Sony, etc. can only make so much more than the person cleaning the employees latrine. Doesn't this make sense? Does the President of GM/GE/VIACOM/DISNEY/MICROSOFT/ETC. need to make 100 million a year while the poor slob in the mail room making $6.50 an hour. BLX continues to speak of real issues. Sure BLX keeps informed of bus rosters, etc. But does that change what goes on while driving your SUV (Saudi Utility Vehicle). I choose not, and stick with TV LAND for classic shows. BLX is out.
:o
AFLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK
I choose not, and stick with TV LAND for classic shows.
^
It's a lovely word, isn't it?
Option 1: Lose all of the fare deals: the get 10-pay for 11 deal, the Unlimited Card option deal, start charging fare on the SIRT {the Staten Island train that is free unless you board or alight at St. George, in which many get off at the stop before which is Tompkinsville and walk to St. George to avoid the fare and catch a FREE ferry}
Option 2: Keep all your deals and up the fare.
In deciding which option is best, keep in mind:
1) your own interests: which is easier, which sounds more appealing
2) transit's interests: got to make sure the TA's income doesn't decrease!
*This is all assuming Bloomberg does {or continues to} cut funding for the TA.
Ending the fare deals is stupid.
The 10% discount for metrocard purchases over $15. Weekly and monthly passes encourages riders to purchace more at a time thus reducing the cost of selling metrocards (dependent on closing token booths which has been the plan from the start) . psycologicaly speaking it feels like you are spending less when you buy an unlimited ride metrocard. The reality is most riders who buy these passes don't save much. Many of the extra fares recorded are extra trips they may have not taken if they had to drop a physical token in the turn style.
A fare raise needs to happen. Revenues need to be raised to cover increase in salary transit employee's recieved(well deserved) in there last contract.
In order to keep fares from rising to levels that discourage ridership, the TA needs to find ways to reduce employees head count and other ineffeciencies.
THe fare rise is going to happen whether or not bloomberg cuts the cities potion of MTA funding. The fact of the matter is that NYC transit in large part operated as it was still the 1950's missing out on all that technolgy has done to increase productivity in the last 50 years.
$7000 a day to operate token booths at 42nd street times square station is just nuts. Most station don't need a token booth clerk at all.
Option 1: Lose all of the fare deals: the get 10-pay for 11 deal, the Unlimited Card option deal, start charging fare on the SIRT {the Staten Island train that is free unless you board or alight at St. George, in which many get off at the stop before which is Tompkinsville and walk to St. George to avoid the fare and catch a FREE ferry}
Not going to happen. The Fare Deals helped raise ridership to post-war highs. Its easier to raise the fare and keep the freebies. Charging a fare on the SIR isn't going to happen either, as the cost of collecting fares far exceeds the fares that would be collected. No one walks to the Ferry from Tompkinsville. It's 1/2 mile, all uphill. People getting off at Tompkinsville are actually GOING to Tompkinsville. There are numerous schools and offices in the area, as well as several bus lines that go in directions counter to the train. The ferry is indeed free, fully subsidized by the city, and not part of the MTA system, despite what the MTA's ad agency thinks (note they digitize out the 'Department of Transportation' wording on the boat)
-Hank
I don't see how you can compare a 3 cent postal increase to a possible 50 cent transit increase. Might as well compare apples to oranges. I didn't complain about the 3 cent postal increase and wasn't even thinking that if I did, my mail carrier may deliver me a bomb. Remember, the fare only went down, according to you, for the people who utilize intermodal transfers. What about the people who only need to take one mode of transportation to work?
In reference to your comment about the CEO of a Japanese company having a ratio compared to the lowest man on the totum pole, my question to you is, what does that have to do with anything mentioned concerning these fare increase posts, or on this forum period?
BLX, I know you are from the old school like myself and a few others on this board and you feel you are the voice of reason, but be reasonable in ways other people can understand what you are trying to say.
BIG AL
I don't see how you can compare a 3 cent postal increase to a possible 50 cent transit increase. Might as well compare apples to oranges. I didn't complain about the 3 cent postal increase and wasn't even thinking that if I did, my mail carrier may deliver me a bomb.
The price of a first-class postage stamp has gone up 16% since 1995, rising in a number of stages. If the base fare goes to $2.00, the effective price of a subway ride, assuming no transfers, will have gone up 21% since 1995, with a step down for much of the time.
Remember, the fare only went down, according to you, for the people who utilize intermodal transfers. What about the people who only need to take one mode of transportation to work?
The fare dropped to $1.37 for everyone who takes more than 10 trips and plans ahead. (The fare dropped to $0.68 in the special case of a round trip taken within two hours via bus one way and via subway the other.)
For anyone who happens to take more than 2 rides per day, 12 rides per week, or 46 rides per month, the fare dropped even more.
Really? How about the average Joe who works at White Castle who may not be able to afford to buy 10 rides in advance, or a weekly Metrocard, so on and so forth. Granted, with the incentives the fare may have gone down, but anyone who wants to just take the Q5 to Green Acres to do a little shopping and come back home, what does it mean for them?
BIG AL
We're talking a one-time investment of $15. For those people who absolutely never spend any more than they need to live on (never eat out, always cook from scratch and never buy name brand foods, never go to the movies, don't watch TV, etc.), yes, that $15 can be hard to come by. For the rest of us: skip two movies and spend the money on a $15 MetroCard instead, and you'll be paying less to travel from then on.
The 10% bonus is just as valid for people who take occasional bus rides to the mall as it is for people who commute every day on the subway.
Of course you don't have to worry about an increase since you get free rides already.
I do? That's news to me.
You work for the MTA and workers ride free by showing an ID or using a special Metrocard with you ID on it, didn't you know that?
I work for the MTA? That's news to me as well. Should I be getting paychecks along with that free MetroCard? I'm not getting either. Who do I file a complaint with?
Sorry, confused you with someone else also named David.
You mean there's more than one David? And here I thought I was the only one.
Nope, so far there are 5 Davids including you. One of them is the web site host. Scroll down Subtalk (from the 24th on) and you will see what I mean.
Nope. Sorry. I'm the only one. The others are imposters. Especially that Pirmann guy.
And I thought _I_ was the only one! Awwww...
I'm the one who works for NYCT and doesn't pay a fare on local buses and subways. I also wasn't part of the thread until now.
David (the one and only {g})
I was wondering when you'd chime in.
Don't you think all Davids should get free rides? I'm sure our webmaster would agree.
We cannot worry about those who are not wise.
Metrocard actually teaches a good lesson in responsibility.
1) Responsible to keep track of who much is left on the card(if the mvm is not functioning properly at your home station, refill your card at your destination station)
2) Responsible to make sure to put aside enough money to buy at least $15 at a time
3) Responsible not to loose a valuable asset
Responsible for getting an education, obeying the law and not being a drag on hard working new Yorkers. Its unfortunate that few students of New York Public Schools hold good paying jobs in the private sector upon graduation. I was lucky to have attuned Brooklyn Tech (the subway ride was the best part). Many of my friends who attended their zone high school have not fared as well. The main difference is responsibility. At tech you were responsible to be on time, prepared for class, do your homework. NO EXCEPTIONS.
At many of the zone high schools administrators are quick to point out excuses why they could not do something. The result a generation of new Yorkers who look for a reason why something cannot be done.
Responsibility doesn't always mean things will work out you know.
Leaving on time doesn't mean that you won't be late, especially when you have either bad weather or traffic. And 20 + minutes in traffice isn't funny, neither is having the bus get held up, because someone's hat got ran over and stuck near the bus wheel, or something like that
And have you also forgotten, Metrocards have a bigger problem than just geting lost, they can get damaged as well (even in the farebox). Although, people usually get free rides when their card suddenly messes up(unless the driver decides to kick someone off).
Was Brooklyn Tech closed throughout most of the bad snow storms?
They can't blame you for being late when public transportation refuses to move. Freezing and getting a cold, just ticks me off, especially since that has happened to me once, on the way home, stupid buses.
See, you can get SCREWED in life, when that happens, you have every right to complain.
About the NY Public Schools, I'm sure you know about the gap of funding between city and suburban schools.
As to why the administrators give excuses, don't know? All I know is, if their excuses had anything to to with the amount of money they have, well that's another story.
Was Brooklyn Tech closed throughout most of the bad snow storms?
They can't blame you for being late when public transportation refuses to move. Freezing and getting a cold, just ticks me off, especially since that has happened to me once, on the way home, stupid buses.
In bad weather a responcible individual leaves earlier. The general standard was if your teacher made it you should also. In my case that ment leaving at 6:15 am instead of 6:45 to ensure i was in my seat ready to learn by 8am. The large gap in funding between surburban distrricts and NYC is a bit overblown especially pre 1992(dinkins pushed older teachers out with early retirement packages) Broolyn Tech was hit harder than zone schools with budget cuts and still turned out 95%+ students going to colleges. THe biggest winners are them many minority (black and latino asian dont count in the eyes of the federal government why? because there parents are resoncible people?) friends of mine who went on to ivery league schools
Considerin nearly 100% of the students arrive by public transit 90% by subway.it took a rather large storm to keep us out of class. In bad weather public transit moves rather well. It takes alot to stop the subway.
Nothing works perfectly all the time. In the case of tech you were given 2 latenesses befor it effected your grade. Use them wisely or pay the concequences
You make it sound like everybody was born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Many people live paycheck to paycheck and can not afford to buy a $15.00 Metrocard in advance. For most of us it's not a problem or an issue, but I'm trying to defend the poor lower class people who make min.wage or even less like sweat shop workers. They can't possibly afford to shell out $15.00 at a time. Most get paid meger wages based on what they sell on a daily basis like those venders who sell you trinkets out of a shopping cart in the subway or out on the sidewalks. Think they can just pull $15.00 out of their pockets for a weekly Metrocard? That's a full day's pay for most of them. And that may be their entire family income as well.
BIG AL
Reread what I wrote.
If people would take the money they use for unnecessary purchases -- movies, cable TV, convenience foods, etc. -- and instead start putting that money in the piggy bank, I suspect the vast majority would rack up $15 in no time. I think a lot of people who live paycheck-to-paycheck use that as an excuse to spend every penny of one paycheck by the time the next one comes, even if some of it could go into savings. If they prefer to spend the money now on a movie than to use it on a $15 MetroCard (an one-time investment which will never stop getting them a 10% discount on travel), then they have no business complaining that the fare's too high.
Yes, there are some people who really do spend all their money on basic necessities and would have a difficult time racking up the $15 at once, and for them this is a hardship. But most who can't afford $15 do so by choice.
***But most who can't afford $15 do so by choice.***
That is absolutely your opinion. You have no facts to support your statement. Do you go out and take surveys on what people do with their money? More people than you think never go to the movies, don't have cable TV, don't eat convenience foods etc just to make ends meet. If the life style of everyone was as rosey as you think, than why isn't Metrocard usage at 100%? Why even bother selling tokens anymore since nearly everyone can afford a Metrocard? Why bother accepting change? Next time you see someone coming on the bus asking for change of a dollar, ask him why he didn't purchase a $15.00 Metrocard. He'll give you one of two answers, either he couldn't afford it or he doesn't ride the system enough where it will be of a real benefit.
I'm not going to go on arguing with you about this. The fact is Metrocard usage is about 85%. That is 15% of people still paying by change and tokens. That is still alot of people, most of whom do not use intermodal transportation to get to their destination. I'm sure there must be some reason why they have not made the switch to Metrocard. I know some people are just afraid to use it, but a vast majority of them simply can't afford it and that's where they get socked with another fare hike.
BIG AL
Once again, those who genuinely can't afford to put aside $15 once (I repeat, this is a one-time investment) have a legitimate concern. Perhaps they should get special MetroCards that trigger the 10% bonus even on small refills.
No, I haven't taken any polls, but I see how many people in the supermarket use food stamps to buy convenience foods and junk food -- what, is the produce department out of potatoes so the only way you can satisfy your nutritional needs is through potato chips and Tater Tots? Those people have no business turning around and complaining that they can't afford $15 MetroCards. (For that matter, those people have no business having the rest of us pay for that sort of food for them.)
I thought MetroCard usage rates were up around 90-95% by now. But in any case, why not 100%? Some are tourists who will never use ten fares anyway -- I'm not terribly concerned about them, since they lose less than $1.50 total. (The same goes for residents who decide it's not worth their trouble given how rarely they use transit. They apparently don't lose enough to think about getting the 10% bonus, so what are they complaining about?) Some have MetroCards but forgot to bring them -- it happens to all of us on occasion -- or don't realize they're empty until it's too late. Some just don't like MetroCard -- fine, but they're not going to hold the rest of us back.
Some simply don't understand. Given the quality of the city's educational system, it's far from a given that everyone understand what a 10% bonus is. Some may not realize that it's available to everyone. Some may not know how to get it. Some may not know that it actually exists.
And some have this notion that if they get an $x paycheck each month, they have to spend $x each month; the option of paying for the bare necessities and saving the rest is simply not considered. And why should it be? It's a lot more exciting to have the latest model TV (even if the old TV worked fine, and not that TV is a basic necessity by any stretch) than to have $100 in the bank or $15 on the MetroCard. Why do you think credit card debt is so high? It's not because people are using their credit cards at the supermarket. I've spoken to people who add $1.50 at a time to a MetroCard, and if they add $1.50 and then change their plans and don't take a ride, they feel like they've thrown away $1.50 -- that's how foreign the concept of saving has become to many in our society. Many of these people can afford $15 MetroCards -- they just prefer to spend that money elsewhere. That's their business, but it is entirely their choice that they spend more than they need to on transit.
The people who are not smart enough to set aside $15 to recive the 10%- 1 ride discount are the same idiots who frequent the many check cashing places and give away a % of there income for no reason. Many banks in the city offer accounts which you are not required to keep a balance in order for people to cash their checks
Take the money they give away to check caching firms and they have momies to buy a $15 metrocard.
What NYC has done wrong in the last 35 years is to cater to those who refuse to use common sense at the expense of those who do.
That is why a large portion of the middle class has left the city for greener pastures.
Find me a bank that will do this, without placing a hold on the money for 30 days when you open the account, or 7 days for each check deposited.
-Hank
Also the Queens Surface off peak fares were an incentive NOT to use Metrocard provided you lived in Queens (to a lesser extent Manhattan, or the Bronx)
because of the privates Metrocard usage would never be at 100% (or at least during off peak times and weekends)
I do not think that is it. Many people, especially senior citizen and recent immigrants simply do not trust the MetroCard for more than $3.00 and for some they still buy 20 tokens at a time.
Also they do not trust machines be it ATM much less MVM (or MEM) Today and yesterday the computer at one of my statiosn was out and as such we could only sell tokens . Card users had the choice to use the machines (cash or Credit or Debit). Thgey will then tell smom unprintable comment and buy one token.(even though they wanted a $15 card).
The problem with MetroCards is one of durability-- they do not seem to understand the need to keep the card from getting bent. I have suggested to customers with bent cards that they buy a $1.00 holder from vendoras on many trains or sold at some street corners.
The machines can give out the wrong change, so if you have a 20, it may be best to get that changed BEFORE going to an MVM, otherwise, you may have to ask the station agent, or goto Jay Street for your money back.
For those that don't know, they give back Gold Dollar Coins as change (were more valuable back in 2000, now no one seems to care about them)
They weren't any more valuable in 2000 as they are in 2002. They're worth $1. And I've yet to get the wrong change from the machine.
-Hank
Unless you are a coin collector. Seeing as though many people didn't have them in early 2000, they were more valuable to have (to a collector and those selling them and giving them away) then. Now more people have them and they aren't getting as much publicity as before.
I'm unemployed, and I can afford the $15 Metrocard. When I worked for a supermarket, I could afford $15 for a Metrocard. When I worked for Pizza Hut, I could afford a 10-pack of tokens for $11.50, earning minimum wage. If you don't drink your paycheck, you can afford it.
Bottom line, if you're living hand to mouth, you make sure as hell you can get to that job. That means a proper budget.
-Hank
Hey when i was in college an had no money it was all that more important to me to get the one free ride. it equaled an extra slice of pizza or a snapple that I could afford
How in the world can you take anyone who refers to himself in the 3rd person seriously?
On the Sub-talk side we had one who called himself the "Transit Expert". He was dealt with swiftly and permanently.
And yes BLX is out - of his mind!!!
I never thought I'd see the day where I agreed even partially to anything you've posted, be that as Allan, Train Rider or Train Dude...
An internet-first to be remembered and celebrated worldwide.
I never called myself Train Dude.
(50 yo guys never call themselves dude)
does anyone here have any negative opinions about metro's orion VI and c40lf fleet? i have rode both on a number of occasions and my only complaint about either is that they lack seating, which is unavoidable with low floors. both seem to have acceptable acceleration and torque to climb inclines (but nowhere near excellent) and both aren't disgustingly ugly (the orion VI in my opinion looks better).
I have NO negative opinions about either bus, I've ridden both, and I love them both! I've yet to ride the C40LFs at Metro, but I've ridden the ones here in NYC and I love them!
I have ridden the Orion 6 at Metro and I can't get enough of it, I had one walk a hill like it was flat land, Nothing more attractive than a bus that can walk a uphill with a drop in speed.
Speaking of, I've been on the Transport of Rockland Route 59 for the past two days with tomorrow being day three, same run. Today I had a Gillig Phantom that walked hills like nothing, but ultimately caught fire in the front brakes....hehehehehehehehehehehe! Was replaced with a Orion 01.508 that wouldn't walk out of its own way. But I somehow stayed on time!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Red & Tan Lines/Transport of Rockland Operator
www.transitalk.org
-but ultimately caught fire in the front brakes-
Whoa... and you said that Gilligs are not bad...
-Nothing more attractive than a bus that can walk a uphill with a drop in speed. -
How's that attractive?
Correction....Without a Drop in Speed.
Trevor
I rode Orion VIs a couple of times, but mainly in Va. and Md., and I didn't think they were bad at all. AFA the WMATA New Flyers, I haven't had the chance to ride those buses yet, but if the ride quality is anything remotely close to the ride quality on SEPTA's new D40LFs, then the C40LFs should be a great addition to the ever changing variety at WMATA.
I personally don't much care for low-floor buses at all -- they're inefficiently packaged, the seating is always lousy (the last row before the rear step in Orion VIs, for example, where your knees are pressed so tightly against the seat in front of you that you loose circulation, and in my opinion, less durable in the long run than a full-size high-floor bus.
That said, WMATA's seem to be holding up very well indeed. The VIs are a staple on the 38B, and the CNG C40LFs that Metro brass resisted purchasing because of potential maintenance headaches have performed well under fire in everyday service. My only complaint about the C40LFs is their ride quality, which I find somewhat less than optimal.
C
I personally have no problems with either low floor bus running at WMATA or any of them personally. I like the New Flyer 40LF, either version. I have ridden both of WMATA's low floors and the only problem I personally have with them, is the fact the seats are close together. I am 6'6, and I can only sit in particular places on the bus, and that is hard when the bus is crowded. Though I don't have a problem with the low floors, I think transit agencies should balance high floor and low floor, just like before ADA, TA's balanced wheelchair lift with non-wheelchair lift. I would also like to ride either of the two Ride-On low floors, which are truly floor.
I know how to change a password. But how does one go about requesting a handle change? Much thanks for any help.
Where did you hear that.
We will find out next week, if they post the pick
I didn't see it today at all. I am going to Metro headquarters tomorrow for something but I doubt I will speak with anyone who would know why it is at Western.
I thought you meant MTA 4309 b/c that was on the M2 on Monday.
#4309 M2
What is so special about MTA 4309? The only special 4309 I know of is WMATA's, since it has the orange Balios signs.
With all the buses moving around, it was just one of those that was in the batch reserved for Western. Someone on the board mentioned that WMATA 4300-4310 are at Western. I know they shift depots sometimes to equalize the mileages on them too. Those 4300's were weekday only buses coming out of Royal, which meant they'd probably rack up significantly less mileage than if they operated 7 days a week, especially running on the 30 line which is a pretty long ride. The older buses are being put on Express runs to lower their mileages, and give those old horses a break and let them live the rest of their useful lives in an easier environment. I guess like an Assisted Living Home for buses.
Hopefully I will see it and get pics. I got some C40LF pics and some other stuff today. Still needs to be downloaded off the digital though, I hope to get up over the weekend.
Add 4311 too.
I want to ask if there is anything special (regarding transit, of course) I should look out for in the Eastern France/Geneva Metro area, 'cause starting at the end of this week that's where I'll be. Maybe some photos will be in order.
And wish me luck too!
Be safe over there! The world is a difficult place nowadays!
Orion hybrid #6365 starts service today on the BX19. The bus will be out early in the morning starting with run #10 pulling out and staying out till the run #56 which is the boat. The bus will do a 30 day test run before an order is accepted. The bus is really nice and includes a automated ADA annoucement system which I guess runs on some sort of GPS system. Several of us dispatchers were inspected the bus last night trying to figure out all the new features on the bus.
6365???? What does 6365 look like?
The Bus looks the same as the CNG bus 7560, except that the roof blister is a little shorter that the CNG tanks.
Oh Aight
So this bus starts runin today.So after the test.What depot does it go to next.
Mother Clara Hale (60) and Queens Village (65). That could change.
if ANYONE gets a picture of #6365-send it to vautrin179@aol.com-id love to see it.
REALLY!? oh man! is it only gonna be on the Bx19 during the 30 day test or will it be on other routes from Hale? and can anyone provide the specific times it will depart from Riverbank State Park?PLEASE!!! I MUST KNOW!!! i missed riding 7560 i WILL not miss riding on 6365!
Another Onion! Another mistake by the MTA!
#1979 X17
why the hell you call it a mistake for!? that bus looks simply awesome and i cant wait to ride it during the month testing!damn some people are insane.and get used to it pal,orions and artics are the future of the MTA,RTS's arent being made anymore so tough.
I don't know I guess because it looks "funky" and the Onions have been prone to so many breakdowns. Look at 122 for example. It had so much more life to go and it was put to its death-so soon and so suddenly. I guess that's why I call Orions Onions or the Shoeboxes with wheels.
However:There are Orions that I really like are the ex-NJT Orion 6 Buses 6350-6353. I like the seating and the ride on those only.
Heck I had 2 Orion 5s on the M104 today: 439 and 445 both pretty good.
I can't wait to see and ride this "Onion 7" to see if it'll literally bring tears to my eyes. My prediction: Probably Not!
#6352 M4
#445 M104
I don't know I guess because it looks "funky" and the Onions have been prone to so many breakdowns. Look at 122 for example. It had so much more life to go and it was put to its death-so soon and so suddenly. I guess that's why I call Orions "Onions" or the "Shoeboxes with Wheels".
However: There are Orions that I really like. They are the ex-NJT Orion 6 Buses 6350-6353. I like the seating and the ride on those only. 6354-6359 do not fit in my book.
Heck I had 2 Orion 5s on the M104 today: 439 and 445 both pretty good.
I can't wait to see and ride this Orion 7 to see if it'll literally bring tears to my eyes. My prediction: Probably Not!
#6352 M4
#445 M104
PS Sorry about posting twice-realized a typo error too late for me to realize.
I saw one of the hybrids for the first time at the recent BusFest in Brooklyn. I think it was 6358, but I'm not sure. Only 31 passenger seats. Are buses with less capacity what we really need? I know we need to have buses that pollute less, and I know that some depots will not be able to convert to CNG, but there has to be a solution that won't cut seating capacity so much.
I think the MTA needs to bring back the RTS buses, or make the new Buses Longer for more capacity. There's 1 thing I hate about the Low Floor Buses is that the First Seat is far from the Front Door, and I dont like that damn Wheel in my way. Maybe MTA should bring some Artics into brooklyn and put them on busy lines like the B44, B46, B41, & B35, I think those are the busiest lines of them all in brooklyn.
If you don't like sitting where you have less legroom, sit in another seat. I choose to sit in a more uncomfortable seat because I like the seat for other reasons.
I do agree that low floor buses are not the best idea ever.
Actually usually sit in the Back of the Low Floors or any bus for that matter.
Has any manufacturer attempted to make a low floor articulated bus. The front portion could be low floor and the rear portion high floor adressing both easy bording and capasity issues
New Flyer has a low floor articulated bus, as a matter of fact Academy bought a few for the Rutgers University Campus Lines.
Jason
Also, NABI and Neoplan have low-flor artics...NABIs low-floor articulated model was purchased by CTA in Chicago, Neoplan is building low-floor articulateds for Boston's MBTA, based on a model they have in Europe.
Thank you
Will the bus be running on weekends as well? And if so, what Bx19 weekend runs will she operate?
Yes, it will...but on what runs, I found out that it can vary...I see that bus either on Run #028 or #050. Today, I rode it on 028, but saw it again on 050.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Orion or Onion?"
Also, I spotted the bus on runs #031 and #043.
Please post any information you might have.
SHOULD there be? Maybe, and maybe not.
WILL there be? Definitely NOT!!
There, I said it. Please don't ask again next week - the answer will still be "NO"!
Thank GOD, I applaud you "Gotham Bus Co.", you sure had guts! I would have lost it on BT! Thank you!
I thought MARTA is a home town of New Flyer, the C40LF at least have been tested on the roads....It is interesting that they went for Orion VII.
Quote from http://www.itsmarta.com/newsroom/latest.htm#h3
The Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA) has taken another step to conserve energy and reduce air pollutants with the addition of 130 new, low floor compressed natural gas buses manufactured by Dailmer Chrysler Orion Bus Industries of Oriskany, New York. Seats on the new 40-feet long buses are manufactured in Montezuma, Georgia.
The new clean-fuel burning Orion VII buses are part of MARTA¡¦s two year bus replacement program. The buses feature increased seating, stainless steel structures, programmable logic controllers and user friendly wheel chair ramps which accommodate two wheel chairs. As an added feature, bicycle racks are mounted on the fronts of the buses, which help to increase ridership and also cut down on pollution.
Increased seating - I thought you lose seats when you have a LF??
The Orion VII can seat up to 44 passengers...the NYCT Orion VIIs seat 40.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"How Loooow Can You Go?"
How come Buses 5075-5124 got those Good Transmissions and the other 5000's didnt get them?? I had buses 5078 & 5085 today, and they fast engines.
Buses 5075-5124 were delivered with ZF Ecomat 5-speed transmissions. However, they have the same Detroit Diesel Series 50 IV engines as the other 1998-99 Novas.
Mark
Well I like those engines, I like the wasy it takes off and everything, How come they didn't put those transmissions in the other 5000 series buses?
this transmission is a piece of junk. as i have stated on this board a few months ago, this tranny jerks the bus around and the driver has no control of the lower gears. so in snow the bus is capable of sliding because it goes to the higher gears.
I don't care if the Transmission makes it a jerky ride, to me those are some good transmissions, I especially like them because they are all at Flatbush Depot, and the B44 goes right pass my house. The repowered buses should of got the ZF whatever transmissions.
i don`t care what you think those transmissions are going to get someone killed one of these days. they are dangerous.
What do you mean? BTW, I dont care what you think I still like the engines.
the engine is fine its the tranny. i can`t stand driving these buses . the only reason i take one in the summer is for the a/c. other than that this series of bus is one of the worst built rts on the road. from rear end problems to all other assorted problems this bus is JUNK!!!!!!!!!
I apologize if this has been posted already, but here's a minor detail about C40LFs 800-989 that I have noticed:
The ID # for all of the buses is in the upper right corner of the black square in the back of the bus. It seems that on all buses that I have seen except 802-856 and 866, the number is pushed all the way to the right leaving no room between the last digit and the border of the black square. On 802-856 and 866, the number is pushed a little bit to the left {more into the black square} leaving some room between the number and the border of the square. This is not some huge thing to talk about but we are bus enthusiasts, and here's an interesting fact that should get some attention.
At Southampton College, I saw this Polar Spring (Water) truck leaving the cafeteria and heading back or to it's next delivery. As the truck was leaving, I noticed that the engine of the truck sounds just like a NABI...WHAT?! Yes, I said NABI. Any NABI (Low or High Floor). I thought Suffolk Transit got something that I have not seen yet, weird! I would assume that the engine would be a Cummins engine...probably the M-11.
I could understand how that would catch you off guard, but it's not that weird. Heavy-duty truck engines and bus engines are largely similar, if not entirely the same. There are fire trucks which have 6v92TA engines and produce a sound indistinguishable from that of a transit bus. I've never heard a freight truck that sounds that similar to a bus, but considering that DDC and Cummins both make engines for trucks, I would not be so surprised.
We have some Grumman (yes, you read right) fire engines here that have 6v92s; they sound just like our 1991 Gilligs with the same engine. This is in Roanoke, VA, where Grumman fire trucks used to be built until a few years ago.
-Fred
Also, there are a few fire engines that have a Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine in them that sound remotely like an RTS...gotta love those engines...the trucks that have them are made by Seagrave.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Code Red"
What's so weird about it? So a truck manufacturer put the same engine in that a bus manufacturer did.
Hate to say it, but this is very common....most garbage trucks had the same Detroit 6V92/Allison HT745 transmission package that many buses had.
Engines and transmissions are NOT made exclusively for buses.
That's right; many parts are interchangable. I used to think it was weird when I started to see the same "chrome wheels" on transit buses as you do on 18-wheelers, but then I learned they were Alcoa aluminum wheels that were the same wheel made for both uses.
-F.
This is for ALL the New Jersey people but anyone can answer....what MCI-9A and 9B buses are still running in NJ as NJT buses? I wn't ask for the private companies.....yet.
I know that Howell has a lot of 9As and 9Bs (the 9Bs were originally assigned to Washington Twp - mostly 5130-5170 range). Oradell still had a handful of 9As, and both Wayne and Egg Harbor have some 9Bs. I don't have the exact numbers in front of my, but I'll try to pull them out (if I can find them) tonight.
Thanks CTRABS74!
While I was inching along this morning in the bus lane and in the PABT I noticed these units in service. The 5000 series I saw were all Howell garage and the 6000 units were either Howell or Oradell.
5146,6676,6116,6495,6440,6267,5164,5162,6286,6198,6366,5035,5167,and 6102. If I see anymore I'll post them for ya.
T.Beverett
Thanks!
Recently passed the new Gateway Plaza Mall being built in Spring Creek near Starrett City and scheduled to open in about a year
Any speculation what buses will be extended to serve this mall.
The B-13 is very near to it and other lines that can be changed to serve this area are the B-6,B-14,B-15,B-20,B-82 and B-83
Thank You
What Street Corner Is The Mall At? Possible Ext. Of #3 New Lots Line?
COMMAND Route BQM1 from Spring Creek and Starrett City can serve there as well
Why would a premium fare express route that takes people from the "outlying residential areas" to the central business districts of Manhattan serve a shopping center in the "outlying residential area"? I seriously don't think you will have any "reverse" commuters, people coming from, say, 5th Avenue in Manhattan, who will want to go out to East New York to go shopping.
That mall is scheduled to open by late fall. I think the closest bus routes to it at this time is the B13 along the eastern edge and the B6 at its northern edge. Also the Command facilty is not too far from there. Maybe weekend expansion/extension of the B103??? i think that the B14 should be extended to the mall as well. And maybe the B20/83.
the B82 and 83 will most defiantely get extended there they both end in Starret City.
How will the B-82 and B-83 be extended to Gateway Plaza from Starrett City. I believe there is a creek between Starrett City and Gateway Plaza and unless a bridge was built at Seaview Ave then the buses will have to double back to Flatlands Ave to get to Gateway
Thank You
Maybe Command could provide a shuttle bus service from Starrett City to the mall. The B101/02.
If someone mentions my B13, then thats news to me.
Hopefully this new mall will make the B13 get more respect and become one of Fresh Pond's more important routes. Like the Q5?Q85 to Greens Arces Mall, or the S79 to SI Mall, the B13 will become popular and will get a lot more riders than it usually does. Now that I look at it this way, the B13/B18 Combination wouldn't be so bad when the mall is opened. The B13 schudule will probably get combined with the B18's, meaning the B13 will have an extra 2 buses in each hour. This will help out that slow weekend schudule (30 min. per bus).
My favorite route will get even better. Just keep running those 9100's on it, and I'll be happy.
-
B13- RTS #9158
Why does the B 13 terminate at the part of Spring Creek in the first place anyway? In my opinion the B 103 should terminate there since Command Bus Depot is right there.
The B 13 does deserve a better terminal and the new mall would be the best place for it. In general this might become a major transfer point for many busses. When u think about it
This is likely to happen. If you know the last stop of the B13 like I do, then you know that Fountain Av. is just an area surrounded by grass, away from everything else. When the mall opens, its very likely the B13 will terminate there.
The B13 terminates by the Brooklyn Developmental Center on the southern end. A lot of the BDC workers came out and voice their "opinions" on the B13/18 merge at the meeting.
B13#9147
I was there at Gateway yesterday, and all the B13 needs to do is make a right turn at Seaview Av. and Gateway is right there.
In order for the B6 to get there, it shouldn't go up to New Lots, instead there should be a new service pattern, one which leads to the mall. That would be better.
-
B13- RTS #9590
i went by Quill yesterday at around 11:30 AM and saw the Roof full of MCI from CAS, YUK, UP i did not see any MCI from QV, JAM,CS how long has Quill been a midday MCI stoage
fall 1995. how did you see depot stickers. did you fly over in helicopter.
i saw the numbers i saw : 1909, 1999, 2091, 2094, 2099 and more u can go over they your slef and check it out
Only Yukon & Castleton buses can park on the top of roof @ MJQ Depot also Ulmer Park, Queensville, Jamacia & Casey Steagel Buses doesn't stay there & they go back to there depots. I can check it out this tuesday where im assignment to MJQ Depot to do Operation Plannings on M79.
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
THe Express operators even have their own swing room so they dont have to mingle with the Quill drivers .
Ulmer Park does park MCI's at Quill. Not all but 30-40 buses.
It's exactly 30 buses from Ulmer Park at Quill.
David
I remember when MJQ was just an express layover. I remember being in Manhattan in August of 1997 when I was at Pier 88, I traveled down to 42nd St and I saw a bunch of 3800's and Orions sitting on top of the depot wondering why....now I knew then! On September 9th, 1997, we was on 11th Av and W 50th St buying a new car and I saw ALL the express buses racing up 50th St to various points! So, that was the good old days! They still do that btw!
Hey i forgot to mention
Last week friday when i was visiting my old haunts at Eny ,the General Manager there had about 40 B/o s personal cars towed from the street and sidewalks going down Broadway on the side of the depot .
Secretly in the morning around 4 am Dot put up new signs at someone at Eny s urging ( thats what the DOT supervisor told the B/ os who were tried to kill the tow guys ( BLAME YOUR BOSS HE DID IT ) ) and then enforced them beginning at 12 pm . For years B/O s parked on the sidewalk and streets with no problems ,but the new man at Eny is making life hard for the B/ o s . He wants the sidewalks clear ( personally ,whoever walks down that little stretch of broadway is crazy ).
yesterday while at anacostia station, i saw an A2 with the first letter of its route block set to P. what depot starts with a P?
I read an article on single life in DC, and some people would actually reject a person if they lived 30 minutes away, claiming two to three hours on the Beltway was not worth it.
Meanwhile, they never even MENTIONED the rail or MetroBus. Are these people insane? If I lived there, I'd be all OVER the transit system...it is one of the best in the country. Folks...the solution is right under your nose. Get a clue!
-F.
I mean, come on, really...you're going to choose not to date a person, completely unaware that it is possible through public transit? SHEEZE...these people are just not thinking!
-F.
I read the same article, Fred . . . it was interesting reading. However, for most of the situations listed, public transit would not be at all practicable -- even less so than driving. Many of the persons interviewed lived in the middle-to-distant suburbs of Washington (Fairfax, Manassas, Gaithersburg), areas served by infrequent and sporadic bus service (if any at all) and no rail, although some of their dates lived in the city.
I agree, though, that DC does have one of the best systems in the country for those who live within or in reasonable proximity to the city . . . and believe me, we residents do avail ourselves of it, for romantic purposes and otherwise!
C
Good to know; I would have no problem using transit when I am on a date. For some of my rare occasions when I did bring a lady along, it went over like broken wind in church with the girl involved (usually when we were riding the Gilligs here).
However, I have had some happier experiences with that; once back in the day, when we still had the Flx New Looks here, and one time last year, when I took a date to Blacksburg to ride one of their Flxible Metro "B"s. Also, a really cute girl gave me her number once when I was assisting with a museum run on our restored Grumman.
I don't understand it, but somehow things go smoother with the ladies when you're on a Flxible!
-F.
It's that Loudonville mojo! LOL!
C
I love it. Loudonville MOJO, baby....YEAH!!! OH, BEHAVE.....VERY Flxadelic...LOL!!!
-Fred
P.S.: Didn't some of the WMATA New Looks have SHAG carpet? Just curious...:)
About the ONLY place is is considered "fashionable" to use the bus or subway to go on a date is New York City or San Francisco where most people do NOT own cars. Anyplace else, fuggetaboutit.
True that. Especially in Roanoke, where EVERYBODY has a car. The worst part about it is, much like DC, we do not have a lot of service in the outer areas. While Roanoke City has a fair amount of coverage, the uppity folks in Roanoke County do not want to pay the subsidies to have public transit service.
My theory is this: as long as they all have their latte-colored SUVs, they don't give a crap about those who cannot get around. There, I said it. I speak my mind.
-F.
This is going to be a long post as this bus trip started at 8:30 in the morning, and just got in around 7:30 PM.
Let's start off with the interesting point. Another C40LF was spotted on a Ride-On route again, this time it was 2323 on Ride-On route 48 at the Wheaton Station. Got a pic of this, when my film gets developed and I buy a scanner I will post it.
Well back to the trip. I started off riding The Bus #63038, a Thomas high floor. It's a good thing because it was a faster trip to New Carrollton and got me there in time to catch the F6, bus #8817 to College Park. When I got to College Park, I saw the first strange thing. Five minutes after the F6 to Silver Spring left, another F6 going to the same destination came, it was 8814, and I know the F6 runs every 30 minutes. Next I caught ex-Bladensburg 4005, a C8 going to White Flint. I saw along the way ex-Bladensburg 9348 on the K6, ex-Bladensburg 4367 and 4364 on the C8 going back to College Park and
9718, ex-Bladensburg on the Z2. At White Flint, I caught Ride-On 5505
to Montgomery Mall. There I ate lunch, took pics and ran some choires.
I got on Ride On Gillig 5373 to Wheaton. The bus got really crowded when it got to Churchill High School, and emptied when it got to White Flint. At Wheaton Station, took more pics, saw WMATA 2323 on a Ride On route, Southeastern 4014 on the Q2 and a Smart Mover 4407 on the Y7. I took WMATA ex-Bladensburg 9710 to Silver Spring.
Apparently Silver Spring was the place to be. There was some rally going on for Mark Shriver, a candidate to replace Connie Morella and
there was some police activity, and two persons were arrested for what
I do not know. Took some more pics, saw more Smart Movers, 4405 on the J2 and another one on a Z9. I saw 5212 again, took a pic of that,
8806, a white door painted Flxible, took a pic of that along with pics of various Ride-On and WMATA buses, more Ride-On than WMATA.
At Silver Spring took the J4, 9625 back to College Park. The trip was quick and I got there, apparently too late to get one F6, and really early to catch the next one. While waiting, I saw 9652 an unusual Orion V in that it is the only one in the first brood of WMATA
Orions that has a Cummins (8.3, I think). Caught 9773 to New Carrollton and there, I caught home, the same bus I started out with #63038.
A final note, for a while 9772 has had R12 on the back, even though the front and side route numbers on the correct route. Apparently it is contagious because now 9773 has caught it.
At Montgomery Mall, I saw two Montgomery buses with apparent broken run signs. 2132 had the first two run numbers hand written and 2129 had only the first one hand written. Also it seems that there are as many ex-Bladensburg buses, running Montgomery routes as there are Montgomery buses, and to my knowledge Montgomery only got rid of 4326-4331, 9776-9785 and practically all of their 9200's, even though a couple of them still run from Montgomery (9222 and 9223). Also include some Annex, Landover and one Southeast bus.
I was on 2132 last night but I didn't see its route block. The destination sign was working though.
Another note about the C40LF. It still had the promotional "VISIT WASHINGTON D.C." advertisements still on it. Apparently, Ride-On route 48 was the CNG special route because in addition to 2323, this route had 5821 and 5814. Got a pic of all three.
I saw a C40LF up at Gaithersburg Garage back in June, I forget the number though. Perhaps there is another partnership between WMATA and Ride-On. Since WMATA can't operate all its CNG buses yet, perhaps there is some swapping.
Might be. Didn't WMATA use a Ride On Orion CNG once. I thought I saw a pic of it on Transitalk
Ride-On operates the L8, T2, and Z2 routes on weekends. The L8 and Z2 come from the southern garage, so no CNGs operate on those routes. But, the T2 comes from up north so the CNG buses can and have appeared on that route. Normally, the T2 is run with Orion Vs.
Or Ride-On is testing out the New Flyer model. I hope they stay Orion and STAY HIGH FLOOR!
Maybe they'll stay with Orion. If they are testing them, maybe they are trying to evaluate whether to stick with Orion or go with New Flyer. Is there something wrong with the Ride-On Flxibles, because my last two times to Montgomery county around Rockville or Gaithersburg, I haven't seen them or is my timing wrong?
There are only three Metro-Ds and they often only run rush hours, so finding them can be hard.
Since NYC is getting the Orion VIIs Hybrids - why choose this model?
I personally like the Orion VI Hybrid better - looks better (not a copied image of the C40LFs)?
Was there some problem with the VI?
As my father is always complaining about, the VI only had 31 seats. I believe the VII Hybrid is identical to the VII CNG.
See my other post...the Orion VII hybrid has two less seats than its CNG counterpart...
Tonight while leaving the VNB toll plaza, I saw a Vanhool? bus for Dragon Coach sitting on the side of the plaza.
Apparently there had been a fire in the rear - between the 2 rear axles, which destroyed the tire area on both sides and some undercarriage damage and inside damage. A few windows were broken out too. I don't know what started it, but my guess is brakes/electrical.
Anyone else have any info???
I remember at a Busfest a few years ago when the Orion VI was there (it was one of the EX-NJT units since there were plush seats) that in the demonstration of the bus, that when you touched the rear door handles when the bus was in park or at a stop with interlock on, the doors would open automatically - no pushing - no air assist tape on door.
Does this still exist? Are these on all Orion VIs? or just the ex-NJT models? (6350-6353)
That feature was only on the ex-NJT Orion VI hybrids (6350-6353). There have been replaced a year ago with door tapes like on every other NYCT bus.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Back Door!"
Took the 27 to Medical Center and then the 35 to Montgomery Mall. The 27 driver missed a turn or something because we didn't turn onto Sleaford when we normally do. A loop around the block brought us back to the route. We had to make a second diversion on Chestnut Street due to construction, taking us down to Maple before going up the pike to Medical Center. I saw the Orion VI for Ride-On but wasn't thinking straight. I saw it at Bethesda, but thought I would catch it again at Medical Center. I was wrong and I had my camera. The 35 was a pretty good ride although that detour around NIH is a pain. On the way home, I just missed the 9:41 J2, but a few minutes later, another one came, 2132, and it left right away. After Medical Center, we passed the first bus, and my driver told the other one his windshield wipers stopped working so he was going ahead to Bethesda. Then took the 42 back home.
Having watched PM rush hour at Medical Center for quite some time, I propose that the 35 to Montgomery Mall and the J1, 2, and 3 to Silver Spring all use the stop on Rockville Pike instead of pulling into the loop. If those buses stayed on 355, it would be that many fewer buses in the loop, and things could go much faster. Also, they should make all the NIH cars merge before the end of the bus loop, to let the buses out.
Usual morning commute (for this week and next). The 37 is now being served by 5618 and 5808 in the mornings. In June, it was 5618 but 5808 was not the second bus.
Took the 38 to White Flint on 5412. This must have been one of my fastest 38 runs ever. No traffic on Montrose Road, we made the right turn on to Rockville Pike on the first light, hardly any stops, and we actually made up some time (it was about 2 minutes late when I got on I think). The driver was really agressive though. Got to White Flint in time to photograph a repainted NABI in driver training, then hopped onto the Metro to go downtown. From the platform, I saw 5611 on the 38. I think that is the last of the new Orions at the south. I witnessed the A&C Connection in use today, read about it here. At the Sales Office where they have all the bus schedules, you can get schedules for the N9 and 91, among other routes. I wonder who is restocking those. The 91 hasn't run since January 12th of 2001 and the N9 has not run since September 17th of 1999. The schedule for the 5B is green, which is the color for DC, while the schedule for the 5A is brown. Any ideas why?
Once out of the Metro, I went for lunch at National Place. Once my appetite was taken care of, I walked down F Street to Metro Headquarters. At 13th and F, I spent quite some time, seeing if I could load film into this "new" camera of mine. It didn't work, and while I was trying, I got pictures of the C40LFs on the D6. I also saw an Orion VI with the purple banner that had this on its destination sign: D+6= SIBLEY HOSPITAL. I couldn't get the digital out fast enough though. Since I had just missed a D6 when I was finished with the camera, I decided to walk it. Not much went by except a unrefurbished NABI on 7th Street.
At Metro Headquarters, I picked up my three surplus maps from July 4th. There are inactive metal detectors in the lobby now. As soon as they are turned on, the doors from 6th Street will be locked. Also, visitors are no longer allowed upstairs.
I walked towards Judicuary Square, saw a D6 towards Union Station, but since I was not near a stop, I was unable to take it. I did get a photo though. I took the Metro home and caught Orion V 5607 on the 42.
Then, the T2 this evening was late yet again. It seems that the reason, whatever it was, was legitimate, since 9224 (used for Ride-On service at one time) was deadheading to Friendship and then came back. In the past week, each time I have taken this trip, it has been late. Today, I had to get someone to come to the stop, pick me up, and drive me to where I was going. I do have the run number, this trip has been running late at other points in the day but was actually on time at about 9 tonight. Luckily, I don't have to take it tomorrow.
The current issue of the Village Voice has an ad for a company called the Washington Deluxe Bus Company. They advertise Washington to NYC and NYC to Washington bus service with a special introductory one way fare of $15.00. The ad also has a coupon for $5.00 off the introductory fare. A photo of what appears to be the front of an MCI J4500 is also featured in the ad. This new service began on July 2nd, 2002. Is anyone familiar with this company?
They've advertised in the Washington Post as well; it aroused my curiosity but I know nothing about them beyond the ad, which listed an 800 number but no web site.
C
I heard an ad for them on 1010WINS the other day.
Peace,
ANDEE
Just out of curiosity .... Why does the B15 don't stop at Cross Bay Blvd. I think it wuold be a good transfer to the Airport from Howard Beach and Q 11, Q 21, and Q 41. And why Bed - Stuy bound B15 don't stop at the "A" N Conduit Av - Aqueduct Station.
cause it doesnt run anywhere near those places?i know i havnt noticed it.
Yes it does. If you let the B 15 run along the Conduit Av service Road
it can make a transfer at x - Bay Blvd and still go on the Nassau Expy or Linden Blvd.
As for the Bed - Stuy B15 and the A train. It does pass by the Conduit Av Station
Since there is no bus stops on N Conduit Av the B 15 stays on the left lane so it can exit to Linden Blvd
I am trying to figure out why it does not make stops at these transfer points
When i drove the B15 i used let people ( airport workers . ) off at the A train stop . aside from the traffic ( speeders ) i dont see why it cant be done . The other side , naaaaaaaaaaa
That is a good question. Maybe its the traffic along the Conduits. Then again the Q85 travel along the Conduits as well and I dont know any accidents on this route.
I guess nobody will know,huh?
In effect since July 22:
Due to construction on West 66 St and Freedom Pl, the westbound M72 has been rerouted. From West End Ave S/B, right onto West 70 St W/B, left onto Riverside Blvd S/B, left onto West 68 St E/B, left onto Freedom Pl N/B to usual terminal at Freedom Pl & West 69 St. The M72 will not stop at West End Ave & West 66 St.
The route will return to normal when West 66 St and Freedom Pl are reopened to traffic, approximately two months from now.
Hey folks; just a quick ote to let you know my AOL account is down. If you need to contact me, please reach me at flxible176@yahoo.com.
Thanks!
-Fred
Whoops...that's "note" and not "ote". amned eyboard!!! :)
I wouldn't mind taking a ride in one of those for a buck...
LOL.......................That is HOT
Tony M.
Brother if they have those where I live at, I would take those rather that a city bus and save me some money
Okay, I just got word from the NJT bus fan page that 57 Flxible Metro-B buses (#3000-3280), 47 Flxible Metro-B (#3500-3605), 18 Volvo Articulated buses (#9200-9259) and the following buses: Grumman Flxible #2277 (From L&G Bus I believe), MCI M9A bus #6173 and MCI M9B buses #5137 and #5282.
Here's my question, what are the numbers of those Flxible Metro-B buses that were auctioned off? Also the numbers of the Volvo too, please? Thanks in advance!
I'm sorry if i was not clear earlier, these buses had been auctioned off. Sorry about that.
What NJT Bus Fan Page? Do you know the numbers of the units sold off so far? and what is left? and when is the next auction?
Tony M.
http://www.davemackey.com/njt
That should bring you to the news of the auction. No, I do not know that numbers or else I would not be asking everybody this question. It is a good question though as to which Flxible Metro-B buses have been sold.
YES WHICH METRO B's are history? What buses have finally left us for good? =-(
Tony M.
Are any Metro Bs left in service? If so, how many? And what did the others sell for?
-F.
There are plenty of metro b's in service. As for North Jersey I know that Greenville has a bunch of suburban and transit style. Meadowlands has a couple Market street has a few , Hilton has a couple and my garage Fairview we have around 50 of them. Then there is Academy which has some for the contract lines they operate and Red and Tan in Jersey City which has a bunch for its lines. I don't know much about the southern Nj services but they more than likely have some still in service.
T.Beverett
9215, 9217, 9218, 9219 and 9229 were sold. I have alot of pictures of the buses that went up for sale and will look at the numbers. A friend of mine that bought some of the Artics probably has a list of everything. Double A bought 20 or 25 Metros and was busy driving them off on Friday the 19th. Does anyone have a list of NJT Sign codes for the Artics?
The codes if they are still in the destination sign box are the northern New Jersey codes. The codes are the same for Fairview , Meadowlands , Oradell , Market Street, and Wayne garages.
T.Beverett
I believe they are in the 60xx series.
Ex: Code 6027 World Trade Ctr.
But from what I have heard on the older signs, that some buses dont use the 4 digits, but 3 digits starting from 100.
Here's a Link to cleanairbus Website that has the pics:
Orion 7 Website
Aww, thanks, Acela Express!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Orion or Onion?"
No Prob, BTW Those are great Pics!
Thank u, u r 2 kind...
Cleanairbus
More Orion VII pics here, I have just added five more...
Enjoy!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Orion or Onion?"
BTW, all of the new pics are of hybrid #6365.
What change did they make to the windshield, cant see the diffrence?
Remember the original Orion VI model, how it looked like the New Flyer windshield? Well, now it looks like the Orion V and VI windshield...
Cleanairbus
Those were the days... unfortunately ***** New Flyer Industries limited ****** did not get the chance to sue orion and put them out of their misery.
What time can we see it at the terminals?
Depends on the run...it runs on various runs, like I caught it on Run #s 028, 031, 043, 050.
Thank you
Cleanairbus
Is there any physical difference between the Orion VII CNG and HEV? Like the interiors? Or number of seats?
The Orion VII CNG has 40 seats; the Orion VII HEV has only 38.
The Orion VII CNG has the CNG tank; the Orion VII HEV has the small battery box on the roof.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Where's My RTS?"
Today was an ordinary day, rainy late for work, but I did see two unusual sightings today. The first was 5119, the only MANN in the new WMATA colors, loading at the Minnesota Avenue Metro Station loading the X2. The second was on 395 south, where I saw Montgomery 2134 apparently heading towards the Four Mile Run Garage. It seems like it had just had a run on the Z2 because the route number was still in its rear route indicator, didn't get to see the front or side. I know also that 5119 was housed at Montgomery lately.
I thought I saw 4310 today on the 28 line. I was eating at the Four Provinces for lunch at Broad Street and Rte. 7 in Falls Church and it sure looked like it. It could have been 4210, but couldn't tell for sure. I don't know if its back at Royal or what.
Spotted 9648 on the 7B broken down on the 395 HOV lanes tonight. It was pulled off on the shoulder full of people. Then, when I exited at Little River Turnpike, Metro B 8756 was blocking a lane with a VA state trooper behind it and a supervisor SUV in front. Didn't look like an accident. I did see ex Montgomery 9387 going up 395 North and various other 8700's deadheading back to Four Mile Run.
Might have been 4210, because I don't think that 4310 would be back on a Royal route after being shipped to Western, but of course you never know. I saw 4214 on another Virginia route, but not sure what route or where I saw it.
Oh, my; hope all was well. I now have a bunch of questions....
(1) Were there any passengers on board?
(2) The 8700s..those are 1986 models (first Flx Metro order), right? And are they in original or new scheme?
(3) What kind of car was the Trooper unit? Crown Vic? Impala?
And which paint scheme, old or new?
(4) Do they still run the Caprices in NOVA/DC?
Here in SW VA, they run mostly Crown Vics with the occasional new Impala. The latter make nice-looking police cars, but I prefer the older paint scheme to that tacky new one with the blue just at the top of the hood and trunk.
I did a custom model of a Virginia State Police unit from a Code 3 1993 Crown Vic once, and it turned out really good. I wouldn't mind
doing up a few other different models...perhaps I could do a model of 8756 and the car that pulled it over. LOL!
-F.
On the Orion, the bus was packed. The Flxible didn't seem to have anyone on it. Its possible a relief bus had already passed as it seemed like this 'incident' was wrapping up. It was a strange sight, that's for sure!!!
Yeah, the VA trooper was a crown vic. I love those cars so much better than the Impala. My dad actually has a Crown Vic, V8. That car is so sweet. I've seen Impalas up here though. Don't see too many state troopers in Arlington/Alexandria though.
The 8700's are in fact, 1986's. Some look to be on their last legs, especially the ones not painted or refurbished. This one that I saw, 8756 may be gone soon!!
Hmm...Crown Vic fan, eh? I do custom police cars in addition to buses...LMK if you want a model of a Virginia State Trooper car or of WMATA 8756.
-F.
There's a new paint scheme for the state troopers? This was silver with the blue lettering. They use Crown Vics in Arlington/Alexandria and some in DC. DC uses a lot of Taurus cars, and older model Crown Vics. Not sure what Montogomery or PG uses. I thing PG County likes to use that tank thingy that they use to ram into things with.
Montgomery uses mostly Crown Vics, too; DC MPD has an eclectic fleet -- mostly Crown Vics (increasingly composed of '98-newer units but still a few '95-'97s running around), Tauruses (Taurii?), and a lot of oddballs in its special operations division -- I've seen F150s, E-series vans, etc., all equipped with police lights and paint!
Also, I saw an MPD '91-'94 S10 Blazer at Judiciary Square last week when I had jury duty -- I thought most of these had been retired in the mid-90s. This was the first (and only) Blazer I've seen in MPD's "new" (1997) paint scheme.
I suspect DC will get Impalas soon to replace its midsize fleet; the Taurus just isn't built for police duty.
C
WHOA....when did they start using the Taurus? You NEVER see those around Roanoke or Blacksburg! The paint scheme has changed on newer cars though...I don't like it as much as I do the older scheme.
-F.
They've used Tauruses since 1992 or thereabouts, although their most recent units are '97-'99 series. No post-2000 models, though, so I'm thinking it might be Impala time when the Taurus' replacement cycle comes up. Which is good, in my book: the Tauruses' bumpers seem perenially scuffed and NYPD's Impalas look so damn good.
The paint scheme has changed on newer cars though...I don't like it as much as I do the older scheme.
Did you mean DC or Virginia State Police? If DC, I disagree -- I vastly prefer the new to the old, which looked as if it was done in someone's garage with masking tape and blue spray paint. The new "wave" decals, although apparently an off-the-shelf decal design (I've seen similar designs in other jurisdictions), is much better looking.
C
Oh no..I meant Virginia State Police. Got a pic of the DC units in the new scheme?
Lotsa good photos at this site, including the Tauruses (Taurii?) you were interested in and a '94 Crown Vic in the old scheme.
C
Not bad. You should see the police cars here in Roanoke County; the older scheme looks good as it is a twin blue reflective stripe, but now the new cars are coming in all white with a tacky racing flag design at the rear quarters and stupid-looking small Times New Roman letters. It looks cheap, like it should be hospital security.
Also, that Taurus sure looks funky as a police car. I never liked the styling of the 1996-99 shown, but the 200-up is an improvement as it is more sculpted. The 1995 and earlier car would have made a better-looking cruiser for sure.
-F.
I'm right with you re: the Taurus, DC MPD's '92-'95 units were much more handsome, even though they wore the old livery. The 2000+ units, I agree, are a major improvement from an aesthetic standpoint, but I still think they're better suited to rental-car service than police duty.
C
Yeah, I can see that. Wonder how the Impalas hold up in police duty?
Also, Roanoke County is using the new Dodge Intrepid R/Ts with the police package as undercover units. I've seen them in action; they are some real screamers! And they have that groovy chrome spotlight....quite a retro touch.
-F.
You're right. The '96-'99 Taurus was pretty gross looking. About 6 monts ago I saw a '92-'95 (2nd generation) Taurus being used by Montgomery County Police.
Wayne
Amen. The 96-99 Taurus looks like something I ate and dropped. I'll never forget my first memories of the original Taurus; it was Christmas of 1985, and the 1986 sedan and wagon were displayed at the mall. Those cars were so new-looking and aerodynamic and I had never seen anything like them before. I thought they were the coolest thing on wheels!
This is the same reaction I had when the brand-new Grumman 870s came to Roanoke in 1979. It's amazing how something strikes you when it is aesthetically pleasing!
-F.
Yes - I remember when the Taurus first came on the scene as well. At first I thought it was too round and I really didn't like the wagon, but they both grew on me.
Now when the I first saw the Grumman 870 it was an instand love affair that continues on and on,
Wayne
Yeah...the wagon didn't do much for me but eventually I came to like it. And ditto on the love affair with the Grumman.
-F.
Yes, reminds of how I feel about the Buick Riviera. The '95-'99 Rivs look like a giant cigar going down the road. I can recall the release of the 1979 Buick Riviera. It had nice, flowing lines, beautiful burlwood interior, opera lights, and was awarded MotorTrend's 1979 car of the year award (and rightly so). I now own an '84 and '85 with that same body style. Perhaps GM's best work.
Hey...remember the "boat tail" Rivs of 1971-73? Now THAT's a pimp ride...very stylish!
-F.
P.G. uses newer Crown Vics, older Crown Vics and Impalas. They also never used the newer Caprices, but used the older ones with those retired a couple of years ago, along with some Dodge Diplomats.
Montgomery police uses a bunch of Crown Vics (current & last generation). I think the last of their Taurses (Tauri???) are gone. They still have a few Luminas too. I've seen same new Impalas as well. Also - on this past Saturday I saw a Caprice that was either a '94 or '95 model.
Still trying to catch one of the '35 foot Orions V's on the lower county routes, but they can be hard to find at times.
Wayne
Its been so long since I've really driven around Montgomery County. I see a lot of Arlington and Alexandria police cars, luckily none that stop me! Some of the Arlington police cars are odd. They have the markings on the doors, but no overhead lights, just in the grill.
I see a lot of WMATA police cars, especially since the Ballston metro and the Arlington garage are right there. I'd love to see WMATA buses converted to police buses as they are done in NYC.
NJ State police also has lots of cars with the markings the sides, but no light bar on top. I'm sure it makes for a lighter and better aeordynamics. Does WMATA Transit police have anything bigger than the Ford Expeditions??? I know MPD has some RV's and a MCI (either 102A3 or 102C3)
Wayne
Wayne
The only things I have seen at WMATA is an SUV. Years ago, there used to be a modified fishbowl parked at the Brentwood rail facility, but that's long gone. It had some kind of things on the roof, almost like the portals, so I don't know if there was computer equipment or what in there.
There's one other good reason for "slicktop" police cruisers with no roof-mounted lights: when seen in one's rear-view mirror a few cars back, they look like any other car (no telltale light bar), so police can stealthily nab unsuspecting speeders.
C
Yes, you make a good point. Myself as well as other guys I know that like cars usually spot police cars well. Especially , not that most are Crown Vics and very few Caprices left. I always tell people that I think Maryland State Police are being very sneaky with their color scheme. Usually any marked police vehicle will have some bright colors and/or have white as the base color with different color reflective decals. Not MSP. For anyone who doesn't know... MSP cars are and olive green/black. And I 've noticed that when they're parked on the median on the brightest day... it's nearly impossible to spot them until you're a few hundred feet away. Sounds like another form or revenue generating to me.
Wayne
Haha, exactly; "camouflaged" to blend in with roadside foliage. Myself, I always tap on the brakes when I see a Crown Vic silhouette, regardless of color: you never know if it's an unmarked unit. (Antennae on the trunk are a dead giveaway, as are police-package wheels and blackout panels on the trunk, although you can't readily recognize these details at a distance.)
C
Right! In our early years we're taught that the police is there to serve and protect (a statement I personally believe is a joke these days), but here's MSP painting their marked vehicles in a way to hide them. I understand the importance of having unmarked police vehicles patrolling, but I really think MSP's practice is not right. Imagine some poor soul in need of help and searching for a police car only to pass right by one because it's colors are concealing it. Great set of priorities MSP!
Wayne
I agree. Those MSP units should be clearly marked for those in need.
-F.
I'd love to see that. Especially a Flxible Metro. The NYPD Blue Flx New Looks looked really good in those colors. Speaking of, were they ever used in the TV series?
-F.
Busman's Holiday
A busman's holiday is a day off from work spent doing the things one does on the job. It comes from the idea that a bus driver would spend his holiday traveling somewhere on a bus. The phrase dates to the 1890s (and originally referred to horse-drawn buses).
http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorb.htm from http://www.wordorigins.org/.
Interesting stuff for those interested in the origin of words and phrases we use daily (although "Busman's Holiday" probably isn't one of them, but it allowed me to post the link on-topic).
Yesterday I stopped at the store in Lynbrook Long Island to see if they had anything interesting in the way of buses to sell. They basically have a lot of Corgi Yellow Coaches in various liveries for sale along with the Corgi Penn RR fishbowl.
A female sales clerk told me that buses don't sell very well and they are not re-ordering any. Once the supply is sold out they'll be done with buses. They're asking $39.99 for most of their stuff and have a box of "distresed and non-selling" for $29.99. Sales tax and s/h extra, of course.
Maybe if they cut the price they could move more product.
They had about 6 of the Chinese friction Fishbowls in the "NY Transit" Livery marked "Central Station". 5 of them were stamped $4.99 the last one stamped $5.00. Gee, which unit would you buy?
I was just at Trainland a week and 1/2 ago.
I used to frequent Trainland quite a bit when I was younger mainly because of my H.O. train layout. Unfortunately, over the years, Trainland has really gone down hill despite the major renovation they did to the building. If you really want to find some model buses, I would suggest Willis Hobbies located on Willis ave. off of Hillside ave in Mineola. They are much larger and have a far better selection with better prices also. Fred (Flxible) Donaher would probably want to move in there if he visited the place. lol
BIG AL
Found the above bus parked the driveway of the New Generation Church at 337 Penninsula Blvd., next to a Polish American hall. It was parked about 30 feet back from the street and was hard to identify.
The window frames in front and sides were black (similar to Steinway Transit and Liberty Lines). It still had fleet # 416 in dark yellow letters on it. It was a newer style fishbowl because it had the swiss chesese like vertical exhuast coverings on each side of the rear window. The bottom skirt and line below the window was a light burgundy but that might have been put on later. The rest of the bus was white.
Could not tell much else even by looking through the fence by the muffler shop on the corner.
Does anyone know the history of the bus ?
I'm so glad you finally found it! I'm so sorry I haven't responded to your email, but I wanted to speak with the folks at Trainland before I did. I will try calling them later today, and let you know about that Public Service Old Look. Still uncertain about Aug. 8th. I will let you know.
Sorry, Aug. 3rd
Everyone----What Karl is taliking about is an event in Rocky Hill, CT being organized by the Wotrings (Royal Coach Model) and Double A Transportation.
Several Bus-Talk/Sub-Talk members are planning on attending and then visiting the Warehouse Point Trolley Museum.
Among those who have expressed interest are Thurston, BMTman and John S. Anyone else who is interested please e-mail me and I will send you, via return e-mail, a copy of the flyer produced in Word that I received.
Disclaimer: I am in no way connected with any organizer of the event. Just a busfan looking to pass the word along.
Does anyone out there think Corgi will ever build one? Is there any talk of this bus in the works? I think its time has definitely come. I would love to see a Corgi Flx New Look M.S.B.A. bus.
I would think it would be pretty straightforward to modify a Corgi GMC New Look into a Flxible. I doubt Corgi would invest in the tooling to do it itself because of the visual similarity between the two buses . . . busfans are the only contingency that really care, and probably not enough casual collectors would buy both to justify the tooling expense.
Personally, if Corgi's going to do a Flxible, I'd love to see an 870/Metro-series. Road Champs' are nice, but they leave a lot to be desired in terms of superdetailing.
C
I would think it would be pretty straightforward to modify a Corgi GMC New Look into a Flxible.
To clarify. I meant it would be pretty easy for a hobbyist skilled in modelworking to modify a New Look into a Flxible. Like Fred!
C
LOL...thanks for the kind note. :) Dr. Donaher is on duty, and ready for surgery!
-Fred
I think even a skilled hobbyist would have a difficult time with that one. The later Flx New Looks had a flat, smaller back window (so the tailpipe could be mounted on the left side), and the entire front of the bus would have to be retooled. Flx used different bumpers, and the differences go on and on...
Corgi seems to be on a role now with the D series MCI's, but they in my opinion really need to build a cruiser model after NYCT and NJT since MCI builds alot of buses for them. The other thing that needs to be modeled by Corgi is an RTS, the bus bank looks ok, but it could be so much better.
It all comes down to how many buses Corgi thinks it can sell. Bus models don't do that well because they are priced as models not TOYS.
Some of the Corgi New Looks and MCI's had production runs of 7,000-8,000 and most of them wound up in the 1/2 bins at K-B toys. The more recent MCI's they made (Greyhound comes to mind) the production run was cut to 2,000-2,500.
In an earlier post I mentioned that Trainland is stuck with many Corgi's and can't wait to get rid of them.
Doubtful that they would invest in the tooling to modify to a Flx NL or a Metro for 2,500 units.
Additionally, I read on another board, that Corgi currently is having the tooling done in China for a Scenicruiser (PD-4501). Lets hope that the model is done well and sells extremely well to possibly encourage Corgi to make other models.
Eep! You must have one heckuva KayBee up there....I could NEVER find Corgis for half off in Roanoke. The closest thing I have seen in that bin were a few Code 3 Crown Vics.
And yes, it is a shame about the pricing. However, the good news is that a China manufacturer makes a friction O scale Old Look that is VERY similar to the Corgi version, only it is fully functional and has opening doors. Oh, if only they would follow suit with an MCI or a Fishbowl!
-F.
The K-B Toys that I read about was from postings by IIRC Steve Hoskins, which means stores on the left coast.
Yep, I bought PLENTY of the things at $19.95 at K-B Toys discount outlets. There is one at the "Citadel" center in City of Commerce, and another right at the Tijuana border in San Ysidro.
Another place that had 'em...and has NOT had them for about two years, was the "Tuesday Morning" chain of merchandise liquidation stores. They were originally $19.95 there also, and went down to $11.95 shortly after...I think most of my Corgi's came from there.
Really? We have a Tuesday Morning here in Roanoke...they look to be more of a wicker basket-type joint though. I'll have to see if they have any buses...
-F.
Lotsa luck....
The buses were at Tuesday Morning stores over two, more like three years ago. Once word got around, people were making the rounds of all the TM stores and buying up everything they had. I know, I did it -- all the southern California stores plus the ones in Las Vegas. The folks working at the ones in Vegas said they never got any of the buses.
I think what happens is that when they buy up some retailers lots, they send them to the opposite end of the country. The reason I think this is that one hobby mail order place had only certain models of Corgi buses listed -- and then when I called them, they said they "disposed" of them, and a couple months later, all those exact same issues were at TM stores out here. Teh hobby retailer was in Hollywood, Florida.
I see; thanks for the info. Now I don't have to go on a wild goose chase!
-F.
Wild geese are VERY hard to catch. Tame ones are bad enough. :-)
Tell me about it. :) They're pretty fowl, alright.
Figures.
-F.
That "other" O-scale GM Old look with the friction motor and opening doors is a genuine piece of shit compared to a REAL Corgi.
The windows are all wrong.
The standee windows are all wrong.
The headlights are shaped all wrong.
The taillamps are shaped all wrong.
The roof marker lamps are totally wrong.
The wheels are all wrong.
It LOOKS like a toy bus, not a scale model.
Basically, the only thing they did right was the metal upper half of the body, and a few informed sources say they think that the Chinese producer of this model is the very same one that made the Corgi -- they "stole" the dies for a while and produced the cheap-o version. That's why we saw one and one only run of the cheap-o Old Looks.
Hmm...interesting. Not a bad model overall though...it has potential.
-F.
I'll agree with you on that. Be nice if someone would make a slantback RTS model. The Hot Wheels version is so small....
Hmm, maybe I could do one up from a Jimson bank...with a little surgery and some wheels from a Corgi-type model, I could really make a nice model from one of those. I've always wanted to do a Baltimore MTA slopeback....Oh dear, the wheels are turning in my head again.
-F.
Don't waste a Corgi just for the wheels. There are wheels available from a place in Massachusetts for $1.95 front axle, $2.95 rear axle.
eastbayhobbies@aol.com
Thanks for the tip, Steve; my other option I pondered was to pirate them from the China Corgi Old-Look clones and modify the holes as they look more like Oldsmobile Toronado hubcaps than bus rims. I will look into this for sure.
-F.
There are four other slopeback models that I know about
1 - Micro Machines #39. This is smaller than HW and not as in scale.
2 - A hydrocal (papier-mache like substance) hand painted model slightly larger than HW. Close in size to Road Champs' buses. Pretty accurate.
3 - Air Jet Industries custom made for GMC in various demonstrator liveries. About the size of Corgi's MCI D's. Comes inside a plastic display case with a wood base. Extremely accurate.
4 - A large display model. Supposedly seen by FLXIBLE. I haven't seen it so I can't comment on it.
I obtained #1,#2 on E-bay. Bought #3 at the NYC Model Train Show in Kendall Park, NJ two years ago. Did see one other Air Jet version on E-bay about 9 months ago.
The large display model is 1:25 scale and was a resin promo made around 1977. My friend, Bev Fitzpatrick, found it quite some time ago; you may want to ask him about it (btfitzjr@issuesmgmtgroup.com).
-F.
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. ;) You really have to put your mind to it, but it can be done!
-Fred
I am currently putting the finishing touches on a Corgi Flx New Look. It took a lot of "meatball surgery", but overall it came together very nicely. The big thing about it is, you have to move the windows up, round out the fenders, modify the windshield...oh heck, buy the book. Oh yes, and with the NYCTA units, you have to COMPLETELY rebuild the interior as it is all side-facers. I loved to do it though.
-Fred
One of the few NYCTA Flx NewLooks I've seen with front-facing seats was the '73 Flx used in the film "Quick Change." That was bus 7098.
Quick Change? Gotta see it.
Oh, you'll love it. It's a nice long scene. And the driver (Phillip Bosco) was hilarious.
Yessir...gotta see this. Is it out on video yet?
Yes, but I had a hard time trying to find it. It's an old film (1990), but one video store wanted over $100.00 (naturally, I didn't pay it). I think I finally bought it for $19.99. I was so thrilled. Of course, this was before eBay :o)
Sheeze...100 bucks? It's a 1990 film, for crying out loud! They show this stuff on USA at 3 in the morning! What gives?
That's what happens when you live out in the sticks.....
Tell me about it. Plus, transit access is nearly impossible. I have to walk a mile in the blazing sun just to catch the paratransit shuttle (which only comes by every 2 hours) into Salem to get the Valley Metro, then transfer to another bus to get to Downtown Roanoke. Total travel time? Two and a half hours.
So if I have a 1:00 appointment Downtown as I did today, I have to leave my front door no later than 9:45 AM!
-F.
Hey even in larger metro areas, transit sucks. I live eight miles from my door to the bus yard where I work. It takes ten minutes to drive (hey, there's two traffic lights along the way that are never green!!)
If I were to take a bus, first, I wouldn't ever get there in time to go on duty at 4:04 a.m. as I am one of the first buses out...but I would have to walk over a mile to the nearest route (though it is 500' away from my residence) -- cannot cross a river and railroad tracks except where the bridge is...) then it would be a 20 minute bus ride. And then a mile and a half walk to the yard, no routes pass it.
When I used to work at an other yard eleven miles away, I'd have to use two buses. Half a mile walk to the first route, cross the street at the transfer point, and then walk a block to the yard. Travel time would have been about 90 minutes!! That's versus 20 minutes driving.
Yow...what a pooper! I plan to use transit when I go to Cleveland in a few weeks...when I was there in 2000 I wanted to ride the buses so bad but barely made it to the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame in time on the rail. I hope to set out a whole day and ride their Flxes this year.
On a good note, I did visit the friendly folks at OMOT, who took me on a courtesy ride in their restored 1959 CTS Fishbowl. The bus still had a row of seats unbolted from where Brad Renfro and Callista Flockhart were shot riding it in "Telling Lies In America". Great movie, BTW; ever seen it?
-Fred
But that was NOT a real NYCTA bus. It was an NJ Transit bus.
Look at all the advertising cards in the bus.....
Plus, the "Blaftoomy" didn't have the emergency lights along side the front destination sign.
You keep saying that, but I still believe it really was a NYC bus all its life. The farebox, interior and exterior colors are correct for that time (1990). The number 7098 would correctly identify it as a '73 model. My only guess is they changed the seating configuration for the film. Is there anyone else who can verify this?
See my post at #51971 then look carefully at the front of the bus the next time the movie is viewed. The evidence will show that this was an imposter NYCT bus though it almost fooled me too.
Okay, perhaps, but it's a GOOD imposter. I'll have to watch the film again. Do you know what happened to 7098 after the film? Seems silly to use an imposter, since they were still using Flx NewLooks in NYC back in 1990. If it wasn't a city bus, there must have been another Flx NewLook with that same number.
Ever give thought to the fact that New York MTA did NOT want any of their real buses used because the film DID have a crime as its topic?
The MTA seems loathe to allow movie filming of their equipment in such situations.
Okay, but if that's true, why not use an M.S.B.A. bus, or invent another transit agency strictly for the purpose of the film?
Very simple. That NJT bus 7098 used in the movie was owned by a NON-public transit agency at the time. (I know who the owner was, he does not own it any more.) It is one hell of a lot easier for a show production company to deal with an individual or even a company than to deal with a governmental agency.
It is a VERY rare thing to see actual transit agency buses in movies -- 99 out of 100 times, they rent one from an individual or a company.
Out here in southern California, there are a few individuals who own rather sizeable fleets of former public transit buses and they do nothing BUT lease their buses to TV/movie production companies for film work. They get repainted into whatever the studio wants, so that people think they are seeing a REAL transit agency bus. Well, it WAS one at one time, but when it's being filmed, it's already been sold off.
The "Santa Monica Intercity Bus Lines" 2525's were almost all ex-San Diego TDH5303's. Note that thei lettered them differently than the real agency they were depicting, which was, at the time, Santa Monica MUNICIPAL Bus Lines -- now Santa Monica Big Blue Bus. The same people who did the bus modifications and work for "Speed" did the San Diego bus in Jurassic Park 2. That bus actually WAS a former San Diego Transit 800-series T8H5307A, though in the movie, it had a 900-series number.
I forget which one it was, but in one of the "Lethal Weapon" movies, the studio people wanted a city bus to get in the way of a chase. The actual bus shot in the movie lasted 1.5 seconds if that much -- but it was an SCRTD GM old look bus depicted - only trouble was, the bus they painted into SCRTD-like colors was....a Crown school bus!!! You could see the rear of the bus with the SCRTD colors, but not the sides, so you couldn't tell if it was a school bus or what. But that big fat round ass and paired windows.....well, the paired rear windows sort of looked like a GM old look in the 1.5 seconds. But using the slow-motion effect on the VCR I saw what it really was.
Okay, I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.
Whoa..there was a Fishbowl in "Jurassic Park 2"? I've gotta see this!
Also, it is an abomination that they used a Crown Coach to depict an Old Look, but I can see where the logic comes in for a 1.5 second shot. And I also see the logic in usung ex-San Diego Fishes for "Speed" as their paint scheme looked quite familiar. In fact, I am taking a Corgi SD Fishbowl and converting it to SM no. 2525 to match the movie bus as we speak, rear A/C unit and all.
-F.
I would kill to have one of those! Are you taking orders?
Yes sir! E-mail me and I'll give you all the details.
-F.
Will do, I will e-mail you from my home computer this evening. Thanks!
Sounds great; I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
-Fred
Using the ex-San Diego buses in "Speed" had NOTHING to do with the way they were painted. All the buses using in "Speed" were repainted to match SMMBL's paint scheme anyway.
It was more a matter that the people responsible for the bus work for the movie were able to get a sizeable fleet of the same type buses at a very good cost.
That makes sense.
-F.
Seems silly to use an imposter, since they were still using Flx NewLooks in NYC back in 1990.
At least movies like 'Quick Change' and 'Speed' have used reasonably accurate buses for the cities they are based in. Remember the European bus that was passed off as a New York City TA bus in 'Superman II"? Ugh.
Jim D.
Yeesh. Really? I never saw that one. I am impressed they used a Flxible New Look as a transit bus in "Lois And Clark" though. The Flx emblem was covered by a blank chrome strip, which was embedded with Dean Cain's handprint when he stopped the runaway bus as the brakes went out. Very neat scene!
-F.
Yeah, it was on the Q9 to JFK Airport! Lol!
it was on the Q9 to JFK Airport
" I didn't say this bus went to the airport, I said it went near the airport! " :)
JD
"You have exact change right?" "That isn't exact change!"
" I didn't say this bus went to the airport, I said it went near the airport! " :)
That's what the destination sign said in the movie!
I saw 4309 twice this afternoon; first at Friendship Heights at 12.35 pm loading passengers for the outbound E3 and then again at 3.25 pm on the inbound E2 at Western & McKinley as I was driving back from the Metro.
I also saw WMATA C40LF 2393 with a Ride-On placard in the front windshield and a Ride-On banner in the right front passenger window on the T2 -- I saw the bus at the Western Ave. bus pull-in at Friendship Heights (where the E-buses stop but usually not the T2) and then a little later on River Road near 7-Eleven. Anyone know the rationale for this? I know there's another BusTalk string speculating about whether the CNG buses are on loan, operated under contract, etc. . . .
And last: Metrorail's automated-sign systems seem to be malfunctioning today. On both the Red and Green-Yellow lines, they were listing the ETA of the second-next train for each station, which caused some passenger confusion as outlandish wait times like "13 minutes" were displayed.
C
Darn it, why am I not out taking pictures...
The signs are not malfunctioning, they were testing them to see if they could get the next train to be displayed. It doesn't do anyone much good on the Red Line but on the Green/Yellow and Blue/Orange, it is quite useful. Since this is the second time, they might leave it on for good.
How was the single tracking at Friendship going today?
Interesting; thanks for the info. That would be a helpful feature, if they can get it to work, on the downtown shared trackage. Unfortunately, right now the timing seems to leave a lot to be desired: the next-train display, if displayed at all, was just flashing momentarily before jumping to display of the second-next train.
No delays at Friendship either way -- I think, but could be wrong, that the single-tracking doesn't start 'til tonight for the floating slab replacement. Did you hear differently?
C
How odd, a WMATA bus on loan to Ride-On, running on a WMATA route operated by Ride-On on Saturdays.
Thanks to Chris for posting the whereabouts of 4309. I did not see the CNG on the T2 when I was at Friendship Heights but I did see this:
More photos are on my website at www.orenstransitpage.com. I also saw 4308 on the even 30s.
P.S. I have got the resolution issues with the digital worked out. The large photos that have been appearing on the site will be no more. I hope, if I have time, to make the larger ones smaller.
Great shots, Oren!
C
Thanks, did you also see the ones on the site itself?
Thanks again for the tip. Does anyone else have any 4309 pics? I haven't seen any.
Thanks, did you also see the ones on the site itself?
I just now did -- when I went to look earlier, the pictures section was down b/c of GeoCities' transfer limit. Great shots all, though; nice work! I was especially impressed with the AVI clip of it crossing Connecticut on Mckinley -- pretty spiffy. Too bad it was such a grey day for photography.
C
I have to see if it is worthwhile to upgrade or get another web host, the rate limits are rather annoying.
I am glad you liked the movie. Have you seen the other movies? There is one I can't upload right now (thank Geocities again) where a train on the Glenmont side at Metro Center pulls out and as soon as the last car of the Glenmont train is out of the picture, the last car of a train to Shady Grove comes in and heads off. It is nice but about .25 MB over the limit.
Hope to ride 4309 soon, now that it is closer to home...
I have seen some buses, LIBUS and NYCTA, that have this message "this bus uses clean air technology" posted in the rear end. What does this mean?...is this a diesel bus?..or a CNG bus?
Clean Diesel.
The ones you see on Fresh Pond's 4600's/4700's are BS. Cough4674cough.
All the buses starting with the 1990 8000 series and newer are supposed to be clean air technology buses. I've seen the stickers on pre-8000 series buses also but technically those are not. However, maintainence just slaps the stickers on some of the old buses after they are painted.
The clear air technology is supposed to be some kind of particle trap something built into the exaust system to lesson the pollutants. How much it really works I have no clue. Somebody in maintainence could probably advise you better.
BIG AL
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Was on the NJ Turnpike today and caught sight of 7036 in the southbound lanes.
This NJT MCI had a rear destination sign and also, the sides were not corrugated metal? Are the CNGs the only ones that are like this?
the CNG MCI's are the only ones in the fleet like that.
Jason
Saw an Academy A3 - I think since it looked exactly like the 200, 300, and 800 series buses.
This was bus 9705 if I remember correctly. Where does this numbering scheme come from? Is Academy renumbering?
Academy bought out Funaway Bus Lines a couple years ago, and they kept their numbering. The 9700's are A3's and the 9800's are 102-DL3's.
Jason
BLX monitored postings whereby people have a serious problem with the messages brought forth by "someone who speaks in the 3rd person", "On SubTalk we had someone like that and he was dealt with swiftly" - "BLX is out - of his mind" Let BLX explain who's mind isn't grounded in the realm of the real world. First, BLX touches on transit related issues and those issues that connect and impact on all of us. BLX doesn't count bus numbers on a shuttle (and posts it)
-or- posting messages about the morning trip there was a soft seat bus on a local, and coming home was a hard seater. Does that matter?
In the meantime, CEO's are making millions of dollars ripping off the public, and people complain if the fare is going to jump a quarter? Why doesn't BLX just give the remaining funds in his annuity to the former CEO's of Worldcom, Enron, AOL, etc. That account that BLX needed when old age and illness sets in has been reduced by almost half!! But nooo, how does that relate to the forum we speak of here in BusTalk. BLX says this, it doesn't matter if your old school or new school (please spell correctly fellow transit purists) these issues will take us on and strangle those that don't live in the elite world of big business. BLX asks you all to recall the late 70's when the transit system was falling apart. Buses held together by tape and wire (BLX was there!), subway cars on the road with less than safe equipment. Who was responsible? Right, blame it on the politicians! Who are these politicians? They start out as lawyers, owners of large companies. Not the average joe riding the train, late for work because they didn't make score for the a.m. rush! So BLX challenges you all, if you can't react to reality and choose to live in a fantasy of buses and trains, then only read postings pertaining to those matters only. BLX will continue to speak for the people, and I mean all people, including those that just ride the bus without recording the bus # and bus model. BLX has spoken.
BLX monitored postings whereby people have a serious problem with the messages brought forth by "someone who speaks in the 3rd person",
So why are you still communicating in the third-person?
"On SubTalk we had someone like that
This is "BusTalk".
and he was dealt with swiftly
Care to elaborate?
" - "BLX is out - of his mind"
I'm confused. Are you quoting the person from SubTalk who was dealt with swiftly, or are you posting as you normally would, using third-person communication?
Let BLX explain who's mind isn't grounded
Good grief.... here it comes...
in the realm of the real world. First, BLX touches on transit related issues and those issues that connect and impact on all of us.
Have you considered touching upon bus related issues?
BLX doesn't count bus numbers on a shuttle (and posts it)
-or- posting messages about the morning trip there was a soft seat bus on a local, and coming home was a hard seater. Does that matter?/i>
Whether it "matters" to you or anyone else isn't the issue. The issue is, whoever posts such, details their experiences observing buses- the epitome of a busfans agenda. Such messages are on topic for this forum. If they don't "matter" to you, you're free to ignore them.
In the meantime, CEO's are making millions of dollars ripping off the public, and people complain if the fare is going to jump a quarter? Why doesn't BLX just give the remaining funds in his annuity to the former CEO's of Worldcom, Enron, AOL, etc. That account that BLX needed when old age and illness sets in has been reduced by almost half!! But nooo, how does that relate to the forum we speak of here in BusTalk. BLX says this, it doesn't matter if your old school or new school (please spell correctly fellow transit purists) these issues will take us on and strangle those that don't live in the elite world of big business.
I find it fascinating that you post a majority of messages which contain more information pertaining to your opinions of politics rather than "bus talk".
Yet, equally fascinating is the fact you ask others to spell correctly while you persist in communicating in the third person.
BLX asks you all to recall the late 70's when the transit system was falling apart. Buses held together by tape and wire (BLX was there!), subway cars on the road with less than safe equipment. Who was responsible? Right, blame it on the politicians! Who are these politicians? They start out as lawyers, owners of large companies. Not the average joe riding the train, late for work because they didn't make score for the a.m. rush!
Okaaaaayyyy......
So BLX challenges you all, if you can't react to reality and choose to live in a fantasy of buses and trains, then only read postings pertaining to those matters only.
I suppose that equally applies to yourself?
BLX will continue to speak for the people, and I mean all people, including those that just ride the bus without recording the bus # and bus model. BLX has spoken.
Right. But what did he say??
Nothing that was really bus related. Had he put "off topic" in the subject line, I wouldn't have wasted my time reading the post.
BIG AL
The handle has become synonomous with "off-topic", in my opinion. No extra subject matter necessary.
"BLX asks you all to recall the late 70's when the transit system was falling apart. Buses held together by tape and wire..."
OK, wait a minute. The late 70s is when I got into buses; it was a heyday for me. We still had strong-running Flx New Looks and Fishbowls here, and this is also when the Grummans came along...perhaps the most beautiful transit design ever.
Also, I don't know how it was in your town at the time, but where I am, we still had late night and Sunday service, more widespread routes, and fares were MUCH cheaper...everything was remarkably better, including ridership and diversity on every single coach, and overall respect for public transit in general. Give me a one-way ticket back to 1979 any day.
-FLX
Spare us the sermon and take your Prozac!
Today, I saw 1870 on the 413 bus to Burlington. The vehicle was completely overhauled, got a new paint job, and all around looked like it came out of the factory. The seats had a new pattern on the cushions, and the inside looked bright and cheery.
Now here's my question, does NJT have a shop facility in Southern New Jersey, or do all of the buses go up north to be overhauled?
All buses for major work go to the Newark Shops on Doremus Avenue.
Jason
I have the news release of 2/2/02 announcing the open house for all persons interested in the bus industry. It is called "A Gathering of Buses" starting at 8 AM (rain or shine) at the DOUBLE A facility at Rocky Hill Ct. on Saturday August 3, 2002. The entire facility will be open displaying over 50 current and vintage buses of all types. This includes intercity, transit, para-transit, converted coaches and school buses. There will be an indoor flea market and a cash payment only auction at 11:00 AM benefiting the general fund of Motor Bus Society. Many vintage coaches owned by DOUBLE A will be operated and availiable for short rides. There is no admission or parking fees for attendees of the event. Food and restroom facilities will be availiable on site. Tony Antorino, President of DOUBLE A TRANSPORTATION and his support staff are making this an event that bus enthusiasts will enjoy. Rocky Hill Ct. is a suburb of Hartford Ct. Take I 91 (connect at New Haven from I 95) to Exit 23. It is just west of there at 667 Cromwell Ave. I plan on being there if my 12 years old Chevy cooperates!
I gotta find some directions on how to get up there from NJ.
Jason
I actually passed this place last week. Its right next to I-91. You could see a few buses from the Interstate, I think I saw a Flxble or an RTS, I don't quite remember. It was only for a second
Very possible. Anthony "Tony" Autorino, president, loves buses. His company has many types of buses and has restored about 30 different transits and school buses. He is restoring a Fishbowl and an Old Look for the Shoreline Museum. He has brought several of his buses to the Transit Museum's Bus Fests.
You can check out photos of the bus fests and see Double A's fishbowls in another part of this site.
Also you can check out the roster of Double A's restored buses at
www.doublea.com and click on musuem buses.
I'll be there as early as I can after the gates open Saturday morning. Weather looks like it will cooperate, hopefully they'll be a good turnout. I'll be wearing my green "Peter Pan" Bus Bash t-shirt and black "Tewksbury Transit" hat.(school bus/mini-coach company I drive part time for). Hope to meet some of you nice fellow bus fans.
P.S. I hope one of their fishbowls are among the vintage buses that will be used for the short rides they're offering!!
Mark
I will try to be there at 8 AM if I can get my a** up at 4:30 AM and on the road by 5:15 for what AAA says is a 125 mile drive.....I'll be wearing a Jackie Gleason Depot hat and maybe a Boston Subway map T-shirt.
Several other bus-talkers will be there and then we're heading up to East Windsor to the Ct Trolley Museum with THURSTON as our tour guide.
To Bill from Maspeth----Don't you read other posts before putting up duplicate informaion....See my post # 51777 put up yesterday at 10;51 EDT
To Jason D. ---- Also read my posts---I can send you the directions from the flyer created by the Wotrings on 2/25/02. It has the directions on it.
Well, excuse me and my contribution to this board! I read your post 51777 and it was put up at 15:38, not at 10:51. I simply expanded on the info you posted. Did you post the news release which I had? No you didn't! If I bruised your ego, I apologise.
Easy folks...why don't you both get a BUSLOAD of people to go up there. Make one or two stops in Jersey, one or two stops in New York, and then go to Connecticut. Then, people can have an easy ride instead of a drive.
Perhaps with a longer lead time someone would have tried it. However several of us are going to the Warehouse Trolley Museum slightly north of Rocky Hill. At least one person is coming from the Catskills and not from his house in Brooklyn. Pickup points would have to be worked out. I'm sure if there were too many stops, the people getting on at the first one would be cranky.
Personally, I haven't like being on a schedule when on vacation or a day off since I was first married and took a California Parlor Car from SF to LA in 1974. You are constantly watching a clock when they stop for a sight or a food break. If I want to linger at an exhibit for a few extra moments I can't because I have to get on the bus or be stranded.
This guy is going to take a bunch of my friends for a ride at "The Point" after we do Double A in Rocky Hill. I've heard that some of the Double A equipment may be operating also, sounds like a great mass transit kind of day !
From about 1 to 3 PM today, I was observing NYCT J shuttle bus operations and NYCT track dept. replacing track panels on the J line just east of Woodhaven Blvd. station. The Queens division is handling the bus operation. Casey Stengel had just 2 buses: 454 and 61xx. Queens Village and Jamaica had all other runs. QV ran primarily 8300's (thankfully no 7000's noted) while Jamaica primarily ran 4500's, yet just a few newer versions were operating from the 2 later depots.
My mom says that she heard a couple of B/Os complaining about how the J Shuttle was screwing up their weekends because the MTA was assigning people overtime. Any truth to this?
One day recently, I saw on the C, all 4 types of SEPTA Regular and large sized buses on this line, Neoplan AN440, and 460's, New Flyers, and NABI's. Can anyone name a SEPTA line that uses at least 3 types of buses on the route ?
yeah the 52 use Neoplan AN440, New Flyers,NABI's and eldorado's.
The 65/City Av regularly uses NABIs, New Flyers, and Neoplan artics. That's the big one that comes to mind.
Most routes operating out of Red Arrow see Neoplan 40-ft buses, NABIs, and New Flyers - mainly the 104, 108, 113, and 124/125.
A lot of Southern routes see Neos, NABIs, and New Flyers - the 17, 37, 47, 57, and even the 68 (Southern has been putting more NABIs on the 68 ever since the Penrose Ferry housing projects were demolished).
I know the 95 uses El Dorados, Cutaways (or Pheonixes), and Neoplan AN440s on a normal weekday. The 98 does as well, only instead of Cutaways they use NABIs. The 96 uses these buses too. The L uses NABIs and Neoplans regularly, and an occasional Neo articulated appears on it.
Saw an interesting bus sighting while I was out with a lady friend last night. Flipping through the August 8 issue of Rolling Stone Magazine (for an easy way to spot it, The Dave Matthews Band is on the cover), I found a Hyundai Tiburon ad on pg. 67. It has a good-looking girl working out beside the car, and in the background you can see a blue and white NABI Low Floor. The fleet no. was 7096, and it said "Metro" on the back corner.
Once I saw it, I immediately jotted down the above info in my pocket planner so I could share it with all of you. At this, my friend looked at me with a smirk and she said, "You're turning into a geek."
Does anyone know where this bus is from?
-F.
Its a LACMTA NABI.
I knew it...same as the red and white job I spotted in the Dirty Vegas video. So they have two different schemes?
-F.
That is not correct. *All* LACMTA rapid buses are red on white with red and white lettering. Like this one:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/1488/7071.jpg
Although, some only had red lettering on white paint ... all of those have now been painted into the standard "red" scheme.
Posted by Flxible on Sun Jul 28 16:01:52 2002,
I knew it...same as the red and white job I spotted in the Dirty Vegas video. So they have two different schemes?
Then where in the world did the blue NABI come from?
I was watching the new Austin Powers movies and behold during a chase scene there are two flexs side by side about to demolish the Mini Cooper that Powers was driving. They looked like the 1980 metro A series but I could be wrong. The scene was supposed to be In Tokyo so I don't know what they were doing over there.
T.Beverett
I saw them as well. Both were white but one had a red stripe and the other had a blue stripe.
Maybe they were some of the Chinese Flxibles???
Are they even used in Japan? If so, Tokyo, here I come!
-F.
Don't bother.
The movie was all filmed here in the Los Angeles area and one location in England. (Check Internet Movie Database...)
WHOA...there are FLXIBLES in the new Austin Powers movie? VERY shagadelic, baby...I'm a fan but now I've GOTTA see this movie for SURE!
-F.
Saw the film for the first time last night. That was a very short scene. The one on the right (white with a blue stripe) looks as though it might have been a NYC bus. Does anyone know the approximate age of the Flx Metro used in "Speed" (bus 2748)?
I believe that was a Grumman 870, and it was 1979-82 vintage. Do you mean the one that sadly got blown up at the beginning?
Yes, thank you Fred. Although it didn't quite bring the same tear to my eye as when 2525 got blown up. Destroying a '63 Fishbowl is just WRONG.
Yeah, that was tragic. So the Fishbowl was a 1963? I would have thought it was a post-1974, what with the speedo governed at 55 MPH.
Then again, it did have the smaller pre-68 taillights.
-F.
No, that speedometer I was told came from a late '50's Thunderbird. There were quite a few modifications to that bus, but the seats, the bigger marker lights, and GM badge on the front of the bus seem to indicate early '60's production. Also, if you notice the back window - it lacks those vents on either side which the later fishbowls had.
Gotcha. But I wonder why a late 50s T-Bird would have a red LED indicator at the 55 MPH mark? That is just strange. Also, someone who worked on the film posted here that the funky glass amber arrow rear turn signal lens was from something completely different.
-F.
They may have doctored the speedo. Were I making the film, I would have used an early '60's VW Speedometer. It too has a top speed of 80 MPH. I think that funky glass amber taillight may have come from an earlier Mack bus, or possibly an Old Look.
Sounds about right. I seem to recall that it came from and old Ford or some kind of antique truck. And yes, an early 60s VW speedo looks about right on a bus.
-F.
Those "funky" tallamps were in widepsread use on GM old looks such as TDH4507's -- I remember a lot of them when I was a kid.
I remember those on old International Harvester school buses; our church had a 1969 model with those. And it had those ugly five-spoke type wheels that bolt on at the rim, just like what's on some Old Look transits. Yuck..I hate those wheels.
-F.
The bus being "governed to 55 miles an hour" was just script for the movie. The fishbowls unsed in the movie were actually (mostly, as there were 12-15 different ones) 1967 TDH5303's that came from San Diego -- among the last TDH5303's built, ones in the -6000 serieal range.
ACK!!! They destroyed 5303s?!? The best and rarest Fishbowls of them all?!? NOOOOO!!!! TELL me they couldn't at least have used some mock-ups or something?!? Oh well, the damage is already done. :(
-F.
Hah! They only destroyed about 12-15 of the fishbowls in the movie filming. Somewhere I have a photo of THREE "2525" buses sitting in a row out at the lot where a lot of the conversion work for the movie was done.
Yeesh! That movie did the same thing for Fishbowls that "Dukes of Hazzard" did for Dodge Chargers...killed a bunch and made them even more rare!
-F.
Let's face it, Hollywood doesn't give a rat's ass that it's an antique. Sadly, they view it as scrap. They're just interested in making money. I heard they recently destroyed a fishbowl in the making of "Smallville" (the bastards!) When I think of how many '58 Plymouths they destroyed in the movie "Christine"...
The 870 that exploded was actually a SCRTD unit....one of their 7500-7729 series, repainted for the movie filming. I forget the actual number, but I DO know the folks that did a lot of the bus work for the movie.
Oh, I see; I had a hunch that was what happened. They did a good job with the paint; too bad they destroyed the bus though.
here are my pics of 4309
i also have here a c40lf serving as ride on route 42
Nice pictures! The C40LF is actually on the 46. The 42 comes from the south and can't run CNGs. If you look closely at the sign next to the bus, it says Montgomery College, Rockville Pike, and Medical Center on it. When did you get the C40LF on the 46 shot?
TRY TO POST THEM AGAIN. ALL I GET IS THESE GODDAMN RED X'S.
Right-click on the "red x" (in Internet Explorer) and click Properties. Then paste the resulting URL of the image file into your web browser and open. They're not displaying in the message body because CKD's webhost doesn't allow remote image loading. Let me know if you have any problems; this method worked for me.
C
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BETWEEN YOU AND A FRIEND EXPLAINING TO ME HOW TO COPY AND PASTE, YOU DUDES MADE MY LIFE A HELL OF A LOT EASIER ON THIS DAMN COMPUTER.
Where did you see this one. The first one I saw was at Lakeforest Transit Center running the 62, even though it had the 42 route number in the front and the right route 62 on the side. I didn't get a pic of that but did get a pic of one running the 48 last Thursday.
i downloaded your pic of 4309 and noticed that you used a canon powershot s30. thats what i use too. sweet camera, isn't it?
I only got it about 4-5 weeks ago but I have learned most of it and love it! What resolution do you use? I have it now set to small (effective yesterday) and plan on keeping it that way. The movies I can make on it are pretty cool, too. How did you know it was an S30?
P.S. I do have an e-mail address. Feel free to write me there, too.
Good news on the DD Series 50. While I normally despise this engine due to the fact it sounds like a giant lawnmower, I woke up one day with a massive headache. I rode one of our 1994 S50-powered Gilligs to work and propped my head against the side walls. The vibration from the engine rattled the headache right out of me, and I was good as new!
Also, the droning hum of the engine, combined with the plush seats, put me to sleep for a few minutes during the hour ride.
Does this engine have the same effects in Flxibles and other buses?
-F.
Yeah it vibrates alot in Orions. Yeah in the back seat you can really feel it. However if there's some cute lookin ladies on the bus....I'm getting ideas better stop!!! :-0
LOL, good idea
Jason
Why, if they rode a Series 50-powered bus, they wouldn't need a man after all! :)
i took the c40lf on june 24 (which as you can see by the dest. sign, was a scorcher of a day, like today)
i downloaded your 4309 pic, right clicked on the pic, and then selected the properties option. it maybe only on windows XP, but there is a tab called summary and it lists what camera was used to take the pictures
i got the s30 around may
i use 640 by 480 most of the time. if i want a new background for my pc or pics of Party Animals i use 1024 by 768
I am using 640 by 480 from now on. I got the camera back in June, used it on one railfan trip, went away for almost 4 weeks and left the camera at home, then came back and have used it several times since. I no longer have to resize pics when I get them meaning I can get them from the camera to the Internet faster than before. It took some trial and error, and I still have some experimenting to do, but as I said before, I know enough about the camera to be able to take advantage of the features I wanted when I bought it. My hope is that the information my website strives to provide will now be presented in the best manner possible and the information I share with others can be on the Internet faster than ever before.
www.orenstransitpage.com
P.S. I have Windows ME. I can get the summary window but it won't tell me what camera was used to take the picture.
how did this c40lf end up on this route? i thought western division didn't have cng capabilities
Recall that some 30 runs come from Southern; perhaps in this case the bus was down from Montgomery for a trial on a long cross-city run.
C
Southern does not have CNG fueling capabilities. Only Bladensburg does. Montgomery does not have them either, I think the reason they were delivered there was so that they were close to the Ride-On facility just up the pike.
In addition to using Southern, the 30s also uses buses from Bladensburg, as well as from the Annex. The 42 also from time to time, especially during rush hour. I also saw one on the P6. The P6 runs from Southern and the 42 runs from Western.
Since when do the 30s use buses from Bladensburg? I have never seen this. Most come from Western with a few from Southern. The route doesn't even go anywhere near a point where to use buses from Bladensburg is efficient.
I am not sure why, but this has been for years. I think they mostly run in the mornings, because I see many Bladensburg buses especially the Orion 6s. Most of them though stop at Georgetown. I also know that the 34,35 and 36 are close enough to the Annex to use those buses. Actually, last week when I took a bus trip, 9325 was running the 30 routes, during non-rush hour, I am not sure if this bus was relocated or used as a bus from Bladensburg. Also that day, 2071 was running the 36 route to Naylor Road.
My apologies, I spoke to an even 30s driver today and he told me that they do run from Bladensburg during the rush hours, most (but not all) of those runs end in Georgetown.
Western and Southern do carry the bulk of the 30 runs.
Where and when was this picture taken? Western division can have a CNG parked there but it will be interesting to see what happens to the bus when it runs out of fuel.
A little over week ago I thought that WMATA would be put the rest of the New Flyer low floors in service by moving the rest from Montgomery
to Landover, I was wrong. It might have been a temporary movement. But look for more C40LF's in service though because Landover has about 20-30 more ready to roll. Also spotted at Landover (I call it the annex yard, because it is set apart from the main yard and usually holds buses that were in accidents, had engine fires, or are ready to be retired or about to enter service), 8723, 8748 these might be used for spare parts or just being repaired. Lastly I spotted 5215, looks like it had a fire in the front or was in a bad accident and since I didn't hear any news about a Metrobus accident recently, it must have been a fire victim. 9427 was also there in its old colors, seemed to be used for spare parts but a couple of months ago, it was spotted in it the new paint scheme.
The question I had involves two WMATA RTSs. What was the fleet number of the RTS that was painted and saved for its antique fleet and what was the fleet number for WMATA 9112 when bought by PTRC?
How do you suggest WMATA fuel a CNG bus at Landover Division? All CNG buses are to be operated at Bladensburg until further notice. Why Ride-On has one is not known, I can ask tomorrow morning (and if I am lucky, it could pull up on my trip, I had an Orion V/CNG all of last week). Plans to build more CNG fueling stations are in the works. I think the next one would probably wind up in Virginia, but I do not know which depot would get it. If it went to Maryland, I bet it would be at Montgomery. Northern would be next in line in the District. Keep in mind these are merely speculations and none of the above statements about which divisions would be CNG capable are fact.
The buses are not running from Landover, but are stored there. Also, Landover is close to Bladensburg based on running time. If you take route 50 to South Dakota Avenue, it takes about 10-15 minutes, maybe 5 minutes. I am not sure if these buses went to Bladensburg to refuel before they ran shuttles for the Grand Prix a couple of weeks ago and for the Andrews Air Force Base open house in May. If the range of these buses are as much as for a regular diesel bus, you can store a bus at another depot that is close and not use that much fuel.
Also, the CNG'S used on the 42 are from Bladensburg. These buses run only during rush hour. Finally, also Metro maybe testing to see what the limits on these buses are, that maybe one of the reasons why there are not that many on the road.
Hey, BLX enjoys you all getting a big laugh. BLX is 'off topic' - 'BLX is out of his mind' - 'BLX should take his prozac' and on and on. The truth here, and some of you have a hard time with the truth is that BLX forces you to think! Think about what is really happening within the transit industry. Is all of the mass transit public being served? You know the answer. Yeah, NYC has great service, but when the private lines go out with 100,000+ people a day impacted, what's the big deal. It's forgotten about. Are the suburbs given the proper incentives to use mass transit? BLX rides the subways daily. Get out of your SUV (Saudi Utility Vehicle) and stop living a dream. As for BLX speaking in the 3rd person, that's beacuse BLX grew up being treated as such. Perhaps it's easy to forget the Vietnam war when America's youth was sent to fight a bogus war. A corporate war. Young Asian girls luring GI Joe's into a world of fornication. BLX recalls 'Gimme dolla - I make you holla'. BLX brought himself to utilize the higher education system (notice my words spelled correctly - no spell check for BLX). The problem some of my fellow transit purists have is simple - they read BLX, they agree with BLX, but don't post for fear of upsetting their fellow bus buffs. Play it safe, bus #'s, bus rosters, new look, low flyer, artics, etc. BLX will continue to speak for the down side of humanity. BLX does touch transit issues, you just have trouble dealing with the other side of mass transit. Yes, the late 70's & early 80's had no preventive maintenance program in place. Get the bus out the gate and make it a road call from there. We made score, the bus left the depot! Keep dreaming baby, just like the shows on TV LAND and FX on Tuesday nights at 10pm for the best of Jamaica St. Croix and Lou Rosenthal.
[RANT]
Well BLX, The Great One says this, what do you think of George Pataki and his cronies in Albany. They cut funding for transit year after year, for what? to fill their pockets, for baseball stadiums, for Joseph to help a school he went to before. Pataki doesn't care for the Bx39, Albany doesn't care, they just cut service. The Bx20 used to run 7 days a week, now it doesn't run on Sundays. The Bx39 used to go to Paul Avenue on school days, now it doesn't. The Bx14 used to run up until midnight, now it doesn't. The Bx17 used to run at all times, now it doesn't. The fare used to be 1.25, now it's 1.50. The Bx55 used to to Gun Hill Road all night, now it doesn't. Sure Bx15 service runs at faster headways now, but those living between Fordham Road and Gun Hill Road are screwed. Transfers used to be longer than 2 hours, now they are not. There used to be a train on 3 Avenue, now there is just a bus.
Now come November someone needs to lay the smack down on Pataki and throw his sorry butt out of office, so get out there and vote.
Nobody doesn't want you to go, just get out there and defend NYC transit and make sure we don't continually get screwed by the suburbs.
[/RANT]
Gee, I hate to bust your bubble, but I wasn't getting a 'big laugh'. In fact I wasn't getting a laugh period at your expense. Personally, I don't care if you talk in the 3rd, 4th or 10th person. The only thing that annoys me is this "Godlike" image to seem to have about yourself. It seems to be wearing thin on this board now.
I haven't responded to your posts up until now simply because I didn't feel like getting involved in the long winded treads you make.
I remember the days also when transit's equipment was in, let's say "less than pristine" condition. Coathooks holding the windows shut, exaust coming out from under the rear seats, so on and so forth. Occasionally, I have posted on it without making it sound like a whole sermon from a church, or like I was ranting with a politician.
I don't have a hard time dealing with the truth and your posts do not "force" me to think about anything. I know you work for transit as I do also, so there is really not much, if anything you know that I don't, other than what they called a transfer 45 years ago.
I read your posts and decide weather or not to respond, not for fear of upsetting somebody else on this board. Unfortunately, with the type of attitude you have, I have never really felt interest to respond to any of your rhetoric.
BIG AL
I rode this bus on the 20 Line a few weeks ago. I notice that the bus had a Swipe Pass Reader like on the SEPTA Fareboxes. Is Bee Line tsetiing this out or they put it on that bus my Mistake?
No they just ran out of fareboxes for the new neoplans. They had to order new ones and that what they ended up with.There are a couple of buses with that new farebox.
hey W.E.S., i took that c40lf at rockville station.
for anyone else (and W.E.S.) i took the pic of the c40lf running on the 36 in front of the four seasons hotel in georgetown, which i believe is on the 2800 block of pennsylvania avenue, northwest
What route was this bus was on, a Ride On or WMATA route and what was the bus number? I have taken some New Flyer pics also, most in D.C., but one being used in Ride-On service on the 48 at Wheaton. This bus was 2323 and still had its "VISIT D.C." posters on its sides.
Once again it seems, we, the express bus riders in Queens have been forgotten. Does anyone have any remote idea of what is going on? Any updates? Last I heard the city council was going to put in a resolution on job security and that the union would vote on ending the strike. Bloomberg of course opposes it. But what is to expect of someone who does not care for the public...just $$$. Please, somebody tell me if this is ever going to end...the subway is killing me!
Sadly, nothing has happened for 2 weeks. Maybe its time for Queens private riders and TWU workers together to march on City Hall. August is almost here and after August school resumes and summer vacations are over.........
shall i finish your sentence?? ...and then the shit will really hit the fan! :-)
city council was going to put in a resolution on job security
Is not a good idea for the city.
Reason 1 the private bus drivers work for private companies not NYC
IT's like the contractors painting the manhattan bridge walking out on strik to ensure that they don't loose their jobs if the company they work for cn not find another job to put them on when the manny b job is complete
If they want job security apply for a job with the MTA
The only news place that is keeping up to date with the strike is Queens Chronicle,A Weekly Newspaper that comes out every Thusday.
It's a update on the strike. Here's the link to the news on the strike.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1863&dept_id=152670&newsid=4851333&PAG=461&rfi=9
the union is to take a vote
copy and paste from ny1
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentintid=23282
Here is a question for everyone. If the 3 privates are fighting for an EPP clause...why are the other privates not in on it?(ex. Green Bus, NYBS, Liberty LineS) Why are they not worried about being bidded out? Something to think about.
That's the latest. With the "loan" of money for their benifits & City Counsil resolution (job security) they feel they got what they wanted & will ask the members to end the strike.
I think Bloomberg is gonna be a one-termer.
He has run the city government into the ground by alienating voters from Queens. Hopefully the buses will roll again. I'm amazed at the ambivilence of city government and news media, this affects a sizable amt of bus riders.
Hello my friends, I'm traveling to a land far, far away......Queens! LOL! I'll be in Queens this Friday. Is there anything I should look for that you guys want to know? Let me know via BusTalk. I'll be in Jamaica doing some shopping around Jamaica Bus Terminal (165th St Mall). So, let me know otherwise I'll report on Friday afternoon.
I was in Ottawa, Canada last Friday and Saturday.
I arrived on Friday, and saw many GMC Fishbowls in service for the 2 bus systems There (OC Transpo and STO) .
Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera handy and the next day there were none to be found. I guess they only run them during their peak service hours.
Check out Toronto! They got a bunch of GMC New Look buses and they are even rebuilding their buses from 1975-1983 fleet to 1995-2003. They are renumbering them and repainting them. For example, bus #8750 is now bus #2250 (8700-6500=2200). Same is true for 8800's (2300's) and 8900's (2400's). Buses #8000-8699 are renumbered buses #2000-2299 (not in order).
I once did a model of 2039 out of one of the 1:64 scale Fishbowl friction models made in China in the newer colors; it turned out pretty well. What a neat fleet they have up there.
-F.
Because Canadian properties receive far less funding from the federal government than their US counterparts, they are forced to make their equipment last longer. For this reason, most Canadian systems have preventive maintenance programs which keep buses in good shape from the day they hit the road until well past 12 years old. With rare exceptions, it would be unheard of to retire a 12-year old bus in Canada.
The preventive maintenance coupled with the generally superior quality of GM New Looks means that most Canadian cities still have New Looks in service, and most will for some time to come.
That's it...I'm goin' to Canada. Wonder if they still have any Flxibles in service?
I didn't see any. Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
What I did see were New Look GMC's, some with the AC over the rear window, others w/o.
It felt like a time warp.
I believe Montreal was the only Canadian city to have Flxible New Looks, but those buses are long gone.
Jim D.
What a shame. I wonder why Flxes did not stick around as long in Canada as the GMs? Was it a national loyalty thing since GMs were made there longer than Flxes? Also, it is to my understanding that London Transit used some second-hand Grummans. Are they still there?
Canada?? Flxibles??
If you are such an ardent Flxible fan, you would know that only ONE city in Canada had them....Montreal. And they are long gone....
Don't forget that they made New Looks briefly in Canada during the 1960s, and that London Transit purchased some secondhand Grumman 870s. Speaking of, I am not sure if they are still in service?
-F.
My friend who at Ulmer Park told me that the Express serivce on the X27 and X28 will begain weekend stating 9/07/02. Both buses will run Saturday and Sunday, He does know the First bus leaving Brooklyn or the Last one Leaving the City or the Head way. When he find the new infomation he will pass it on to me and I will pass it in here.
Robert
Date correction 9/08/02
The local paper (Brooklyn Spectator) says 600 to 2200 hrs Saturdays and 700 to 2100 hrs Sundays. I wonder if the service patterns will follow the weekday rush hours, or have more buses into the city during the evening hours?
This is a great idea becase the subway service on the weekends has deteriorated greatly due to the GO's.
It's a 30-minute headway during the entire service span, in both directions, on both routes (X27 and X28).
David
Thanks. Hope to riding the X28 on the first day.
Saw some more buses on the Sci-Fi Channel the other night. First, on a mini-movie series called "Shadow Realm", they showed one called "Voices"; it took place in Chicago, where a courtroom artist, deaf since age 6, suddenly heard the "voice" of a murder suspect's thoughts. She finds out that a large sum of money is hidden under the seat of an abandoned bus.
Sure enough, it turns out to be an abandoned CTA Fishbowl no. 766, parked along a dark side street. The coach looks to be a pre-1968 from the small taillights and has mostly cream and teal suburban-style seats, with a few replacements orange vinyl. Also, the fleet no. is in white on the rear window. Does anyone know if this one still exists? Also, is it common for a bus to be found abandoned at a curb in places like Chicago?
After that, I watched a movie called "Mindstorm". In one night scene, a row of ACF Brill trolley coaches sits in a slvage yard; they are white with red and orange stripes, possibly ex-L.A. units I would presume. Sadly, in front if them is a burned-out Fishbowl that is pulverized by a wrecking ball. Meanwhile, a gorgeous brunette and a young boy are trapped inside and narrowly escape.
Has anyone seen these yet, or any other bus sightings on TV and the big screen?
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
There is also an abandoned fishbowl in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" buried inside a cave. Kind of surprising to see one scrapped so early. That movie was filmed in 1970.
Whoa...really? I never knew there was a sequel to the original film. Is Charlton Heston in that one as well?
Also, considering it took place some time in the distant future it is not so surprising. However, since Fishbowls were still a modern coach in 1970, you are absolutely right. How bad off did it look in the film?
-F.
I believe Charlton Heston was in the sequel, but it's been so long since I've seen it. I just remember the bus. They doctored it up to look thousands of years old by adding a few dents, scratching up the paint, and busting the windshield. I think that bus might have even had the batwings (Bus-O-Rama).
Yeesh. Sounds like they really did the job. We have a Flx New Look in our museum that looked like that after only 25 years! Hopefully we can restore it one day. Do you know if that Fishbowl in the movie was restored after filming? Where was it from, and what was the fleet no.?
We also have a 5303 Fishbowl stored in our "cave" behind the Flx that is from Richmond, VA; they featured Batwings on some of their coaches as well. I sure would like to find a pair to put on that rare bird!
-F.
It's been so many years since the movie was filmed, I doubt anybody took an interest to restore it or preserve it after the movie. My guess it is it was involved in a serious accident or had major mechanical problems. I'm pretty sure it had square marker lights (which would indicate pre'63 production). Just talking about it makes me want to see the film again!
Guess it all depends on how the bus is taken care of. When M.S.B.A. was newly formed (back in 1973), some of the Fishbowls from Hempstead bus which were only about 10 years old at the time looked in horrible condition. As with other transit agencies, there was a long stint where deferred maintenance was common practice.
I would love to add an A/C unit to our 1968 GMC Fishbowl, somehow the back window looks naked without it, but somehow I think too much work would be involved.
Yeah, I agree. A New Look just doesn't look right without an A/C unit. I have made them for the 1:64 scale diecast models, and that took a real effort. Anyone out there know how much work it takes to install one on a real bus?
I don't know about installing one, but once, my father took the A/C unit off the back of a '78 Flx by going under an overpass. Not like it worked anyway :o)
YOW...off of a '78 Flx? Now THAT's an abomination. With all due respect to your father's handywork, those buses don't LOOK right without one...especially the Seventies models!
-F.
Two of my favorite movies to see buses were "Running Scared" and "Ferris Bueller's Day Off". Both were filmed around Chicago in 1986, and you get to see several 70s-era CTA Fishbowls and a few MAN buses in the old green colors as well.
Also, they are just flat out cult classics, especially Ferris Bueller!
-F.
According to the driver of my Ride-On bus this morning, the C40LFs are at Ride-On for the reason I had assumed: Ride-On wants to test them out to see if they should purchase them. The driver made the impression he had driven one of them and that he didn't like it much, mainly since he doesn't like being on his raised platform to drive the bus while everyone else is on the low floor.
So that's the scoop!
Today's observations (so far):
4300 and 4303 on the even 30s, got a pic of a Metro-D on the L8, most of Montgomery's Metro-Ds don't make it on those routes but there was also one on the T2 at about 1:45.
I sort of guessed that. I think WMATA tested a Ride-On Orion 5 on one of its routes a while ago.
You sure it wasn't the Orion VII from NY? Rumors had it that it was down here, possibly for that purpose.
Furthermore, why would WMATA need to test an Orion V? They have plenty of them already and I can't imagine the CNG model being all that different. Also, it seems WMATA has been ordering low floors and from what I can tell, this won't change soon.
This pic was supposed to be on the old Transitalk website before being revamped. It wouldn't be strange to use a Ride On bus to test. When WMATA was testing to purchase low floor buses, they used a New Flyer 60' low floor bus, but wound up buying Orion 6s. This pic was taken in 2001?, before WMATA put out the bid for the CNG'S.
And also Ride On is testing a low floor New Flyer low floor they may decide to go otherwise, like what WMATA did when they tested that New Flyer 60' and bought Orion 6s. Also before WMATA gave the bid to New Flyer, I assumed that Orion would have gotten the bid, since they have purchased Orions in the past, and thought that they did well for them.
As A Memorial to all those we lost At the World Trade Center, Pentagon And In SE Pennsyvania, Lets not post any messages or replies on September 11 2002 bewtween 8:48 Am EDT And 10:37 Am EDT. This would apply to All Subtalkers & Bustalkers.
I second this motion.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
-Remember The Twin Towers 09-11-2001
I'm all for it.
Tony
Aye. Just remind me (and all) so we don't mess up. I'll never forget that day last year; everyone on here was in panic, and for good reason. Transit subjects literally came to a halt.
As soon as I heard the news, I dashed home quickly to see if all of you were alright. Thankfully, everyone got out safe that we contacted here.
-F.
I totally agree! Dave Pirmann should do 1 of 2 things:
1. Shut the board down temporary for those few hours or
2. For that whole day as a rememberance.
It's not only the day that so many people lost their lives in the Twin Towers, Pentagon and in Pennsylvania but it was the day MCI 1998 was burnt to a crisp.
We will NEVER forget!
USA: The True Red White and Blue!
#1979 X1
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
I agree totally!
Wesley E. Samuels (W.E.S.)
Well, I agree too. It's just that my day (9/11/02) is going to suck. Why? Well, guess who starts school on that day? The first day of classes is September 11th at Southampton College, so I pretty much won't be able to write on the board between those hours anyway BUT again I do agree and as "MTA MCI 102-DL3 #1979" said, we should remember MCI bus #1998!
"We will remember the 11th of September!"
Hey Dave, Will I be able to e-mail some pics that my Dad took in Washington(Amtrak), so you can put them on your website? It contains a pic of 1 AMD-103 Locomotive(#800) and 1 Acela HHP-8 Locomotive.
Sorry This was supposed to be in SubTalk.
anyone here have any news/updates/info on the huge derailment of an amtrak train in kensington, MD?
There's a pretty comprehensive story on Washingtonpost.com that I've been following: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16896-2002Jul29.html. The derailment appears to have been caused by heat-related deformation of the track, and the engineer apparently noticed this misalignment and applied the emergency brakes but was not able to stop in time. The derailment caused over ninety injuries, a dozen or so critical.
Still, thankfully not as bad as the Silver Spring disaster in '96.
C
There is plenty about it on SubTalk, also you can listen to WTOP (1500 AM, 820 AM, 107.7 FM, or on www.wtopnews.com). If you want to know about the bus effects, the 4, 5, 6, 33, 34, and 35 were the Ride-On routes affected, I imagine MetroBus L7 and L8 were, too. MARC Brunswick Line was suspended. MARC tickets were honored on the Red Line between Union Station and Shady Grove and buses took people from Shady Grove to points further out.
To u management guys .
Im not going to divulge a name but while i was at 126 st depot 2day. A roving TA boss was there and i overheard him telling some BO s ( whether he was joking or not ) that the Maspeth Garage ,when it opens may be the new home for the New Regional Bus Company and it will take the striking Queens lines under its wings . Oh im also on jury duty this week with a Dispatcher from 126 , so if any one has a question about 126 they want me to ask , let me know .
How else will they pass the Regional Bus Company?
It's really simple: We will pay you on par with MTA drivers, you will have MTA benefits and job security, but you will alternate between Queens depots, including your home depots.
Not a bad idea, except Bloomberg would have to be compelled by the state legislature to fund the new Regional Bus Company at a certain level or the buses wouldn't run, PERIOD.
Such decisions are not up to 'roving TA bosses.' If they're going to be made at all, they're going to be made at the mayoral level, at the MTA Board level, and MAYBE at the NYCT senior staff level.
As to Maspeth Depot becoming a facility for ANYTHING, there won't be a Maspeth Depot for quite a while (anyone go by the place lately? Last I checked, the building that the depot is supposed to REPLACE is still there!). I doubt there is any way the displaced passengers are going to let their elected officials wait two or three years for it to be built.
David
According to MTA Capitol Projets Maspeth is scheduled to open in 2005
Thank You
See, BLX can speak of transit related issues. By the way, is the disatcher from 126 your on jury duty with formerly from CS? Through the years, many b/o's from CS got promoted, went to 126 and remained there. Is wolfie still the 19A person? BLX says this about Maspeth, it's a long way to go. The plan was to take the buses from FP that service primarily Queens and house those routes at Maspeth. It seems as though no movement is going forward on this. It makes alot of sense because FP is at the limit and there is no additional land at that location. BLX did work at FP (18 years ago) and recalls being the p.m. yard man when 15 b/o's waited for a bus to pull in so it can be turned around and sent back out. Many lost trips for 'no bus'. But no one took upper management to task, I guess people cared only of hanging at Ridgewood Terminal to check bus numbers. This is what BLX speaks of, from personal experience within the hearts and minds of transit purists. Choose to read the postings of BLX or choose to remain silent on the true situation of the future of masss transit.
nycDOT has a big CNG facility at the QSC depot, so buses will continue to roll from there for a long time to come no matter who the staff there work for.
Patataki is running for re-election, so he isn't going to support ANYTHING that's going to cost money, i.e. TA buying nycDOT & private depots, spare parts, etc.
started out on Command B100 route as was told by the driver that #4976 and #4978 were out of service and that command wasnt going to fix them. Changed for the Q35 and connected again for the Q22. Wound up with the only Orion V running on the line-though i could see many Orions parked in the Penninsula garage for Green. Then connected for the N31 to Lynbrook and saw MSBA #664(yup-it has not been changed to LI Bus stickers)-transferred again to N32 from Lynbrook to Hempstead. Got to Hempstead and saw mostly Orion V CNG and low Orion V-some of these have not changed to LI BUS. Connected to N49 and got highest orion V CNG ive seen (#393) to Hicksville for N94. Nice trip-should have brought a camera.
B100-#4904-TMC RTS06-CNG
Q35-#643-RTS II-04
Q22-#5541-Orion V
N31-#101-Orion V CNG
N32-#218-Orion V CNG
N49-#393-Orion V CNG
N94-#653-Orion V
So you saw the small low floor Orion CNG's at Hempstead? I think they run them on the JFK Flyer.
Next time I go 2 Rockaway I'm going the N32/Q22 way.
i did not see them this time. a few months ago i did see one of them running on the flyer route. Mostly saw Orion V and Orion V CNG Models.
M57-#5027-NOVABUS
While going to work, I spotted 4309 at Dupont Circle, deadheading to Western, along with 4071. Also not many C40LFs spotted today, which makes me wonder whether these buses are not doing well in this heat spell.
4309 has taken alot of attention lately but WMATA has and had other oddities in its fleet and they include:
8953-doors painted white, the back (except the grill) is painted white with the number in purple, there is another bus like this, forgot the route number.
8806- was done like 8953, but has been repainted in the back to look like the others.
8909-from the left side you could swear it was a 9200, by the way the driver's side window looks similiar to a 9200.
9318 & 9335-I think the only two rehabbed and repainted 9300 and 9400's with the wrap around taillights.
9619 & 9620-The only two 9600's with surburban seating.
9652- The only Orion in WMATA'S Orion fleet without a Detroit Diesel engine, this one has a Cummins 8.3 I believe
9660 & 9659-The only Orions with no top tailpipes. Also these two also once had different front destination signs (similiar to the one found on the 2100 series. I think one of these two was put on 9619 when WMATA first introduced a prototype paint scheme. I has since been taken off.
9701- The only 9700 to have a interior lighting system similiar to the 9800s.
5119- The only MANN painted in the new scheme. I'd eat dirt if this bus isn't added to the antique fleet.
4309-do I have to tell you.
Also remember these oldies but goodies
8755- Once had a destination sign package like the 93 & 9400s
9301-Once had a destination sign package like the Flxible D & E. This very brief.
8595-8603 - Had electronic destination signs. 8604 once had it but for reasons unknown was switched to 8594.
1413-One of three GM New looks to have a black bumper and a silver bumper. This one had the black bumper in the back and the silver in the front.
If there are any others I forgot let me know.
9618 is also a Suburban seated Orion V
8594-8603, at one time, some of the digital signs were pink instead of the green/yellow color.
8865 has the front door painted white with the blue trim at the bottom
I believe 9375 also has wrap around lights. One of the 9400 35 footers also has this, can't remember the number though.
I knew I had seen an 8700 or 8800 with the other style destination sign, but thought I was seeing things!
9305 has the Metro D back to it.
The AM Generals used to have tweed seats then were rehabbed with the red vinyl that they finished their careers with.
GM Fishowls in the 6700's used to have pastel colored plastic seats before being retrofitted with the seats found in the other fishbowls. Others had the DC transit Orange/Green and the Orange/Black from other inherited buses.
9088 used to run around without the "M" on the front before being painted to the scheme it retired with.
1413 was the first rehabbed fishbowl I was on back in 1984 or so. It was on the old R8, now R2 that ran from Fort Totten to Calverton. 8300 was the first rehabbed Flxible also on the R8.
Thanks for the info. I was sure WMATA had some other oddities.
I think that's 9490 that still has the wrap-around lights, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.
Wayne
Yeah, that sounds right. I know 9489 is one of the few 35 footers not to be repainted.
Got any pics of the New Look seats or the Flx Metro sign variations?
Unfortunately, no : ( I'm sure they're floating around out there somewhere though.
I hope so. Anybody got these?
I also remember one AMG repainted and running on the F4 for a while ( when it was running from Montgomery garage), can't remember the bus number. This bus didn't have the black around the windows. It looked kind of cool. Unfortunately, the AMG's along with the (slant back at the time) GM RTSs were taken from P.G. service in the early 80's.
I never rode any of the repainted AM Generals before they were terminated. The repainting started around 1984 or '85, but they were retired soon after when the Flx Metros came in. Seemed like a waste to repaint them only to be in service for a year or so after. The last AMG I rode was a 7400 on the old C2 when it ran to Beltway Plaza via PG Plaza. i had to get to Northwestern High that night and my folks couldn't drive me. Sometimes I would take the C2 to school instead of the cheese bus during the day, too, just to be away from the morons on my bus.
Really? Repainted? We have WMATA no. 7535 at our museum, which looks to be in the same scheme as the Flx Metros that arrived around that time. I know the Flx New Looks had a similar scheme with some variations, but what were the changes? Our AMG was partially restored with the grey bottom and wheels (by the last museum that held it) and bears the red and blue "metrobus" reflective stripe. Is that prototypical for 1974?
And am I right in assuming that the Flx Metros replaced the AMGs?
The AMG's were repainted to look like the Flxible New Looks, white on top instead of red/white/blue, and all white body instead of the silver sides. The front looked a little odd, too. The "M" on the front was taken off and it was stenciled with "Metrobus" with a red stripe on top and blue under it. Its been so long since I'd seen one that I'm racking my mind to remember more. WES has a good memory, too. I'm sure he can give more detail as well! : ) I am glad the tweed seats were taken out and the vinyl seats replaced them. Very itchy when wearing shorts!!
Our bus at the museum does not have the tweeds; it has red vinyl for the passengers, while the driver's seat is blue. Also, the paint sounds very much like you describe it as opposed to the silver sides, etc., so we may just leave it as it is. The main thing is to get it running.
Also, the blue reflective stripe at the front is badly faded, but we have plenty left over from where we restored our PenTran Flxible New Look, so that shouldn't be a problem.
-Fred
I don't remember the number, but I remember seeing it around 7:30 every morning when going to school. The last one I remember riding was a 35' foot one in the last 70's as a kid. The last one I saw was in late 85, running the H8?, going to Rhode Island Avenue. Even though I heard the steering was tough to handle, it would be nice to save that one they have at Brookland and find a 40' one to save as well. Also they should hunt down a MANN 5000 and Neoplan 9500 for their antique fleet.
They always ran the 35 footers on the F8, too. Once in awhile, they'd show up on the C2. I remember distinctly seeing 7619 on there once in awhile. The Gov't. use to contract out with WMATA for a couple of routes, one called the 13 that ran from Rosslyn to the State Dept. via all the Gov't. buildings and one called the 14 that ran from the State Dept. to somewhere in Northwest. It was free to ride if you had your gov't. ID. I'd used to go with my mom from her office at the Agency for International Development to State Dept. once in awhile and the 13 would always use 2600 GM's and the 14 had 35' AMG's.
There still is a 13 line that operates from the Metrorail system to the State Department and DC. The 13A/13G operates clockwise from Pentagon Metro via Jefferson Davis Hwy, Arlington Memorial Bridge, 23 St NW, and Constitution Av to Archives/Navy Memorial Metro, then returns to Pentagon Metro via 7 St SW, Independence Av, and 14 St SW and over the 14 St Bridge and I-395 to Pentagon Metro. (The 13G operates early AM service on weekends to National Airport.) The 13B/13F are the counter-clockwise routings of the 13A/13G (with the 13F service National Airport).
I don't know if the present 13 line is similar to what you're referring to as to the DC routing, but I think it's the same general concept involved.
Actually, these routes used to have the number, then "Charter" back in the days that WMATA chartered out the service more. They were cool runs that the general public didn't get to ride, only gov't. employees. Also, they didnt have a letter suffix either, which was pretty different, too. The current 13 is definitely a gov't. type route, though. I've never ridden it, but it seems to do really well at rush hours.
it would be nice to save that one they have at Brookland and find a 40' one to save as well.
Where is Brookland? Is there a AMG there?
From what I have heard, it is at Brookland. If going to Silver Spring, right after Brookland look to your right and you'll see a scrap, auction lot with some buses there. I am not sure what else is there, heard some new looks and RTSs. From time to time, that same one was brought to Landover and kept in the new Landover storage lot right off of Route 50.
Are you guys referring to the auction lot to the right immediately after Fort Totten or is there a distinct lot at Brookland?
C
Yes. There was a lot right after the West Hyattsville Station, on I think Chillum road, that was once used as storage lot. I most of the GMC new looks and Flxibles new looks were stored. These buses were replaced in service by the second batch of Orions (4200-4400s). Also before work began on the West Hyattsville Station, there was also a storage lot holding mostly Flxible New Looks (mostly 8000s and 8100s) and one GM new look (6426). Some of these buses were put into service, I remember 6426 in service from Landover for a while, being shipped to another depot before being retired.
The last 8100 I can remember riding is 8110 on the 2B in the early 90's. I liked those buses. I remember an 8200 coming to my Elementary School in the early 80's for whatever reason, I guess a field trip, but for some other class. I wanted to go too, but I think it was for the kindergartners, so enough said about that.
So what do they do with their antique fleet...do they ever run them, or do they just sit?
They should either open up a physical museum or run the older buses on varied regular routes, perhaps charging the fare that was applicable when the bus was new. That would really open up new eyes to using public transit in D.C. and be a great tourist attraction!
-F.
Sometimes they appear at special WMATA events, like a subway opening. GM old look was at Clinton's second inagural parade, and I saw it at Landover, right around the time their bus rodeo was going on. I think they store these buses at Bladensburg. Would be nice if WMATA had a bus fest like New York has.
Old Look #1912 occasionally makes an appearance at Taste of DC in September . . . you can climb aboard, poke around, ask the operator questions, &c.
C
What is the date of this event?
It varies but it's usually a weekend in early October, and it's held on Penna. Ave. between 9th and 14th Sts. Check the Post's Weekend section as the date approaches; I'm sure it'll be given pretty good placement because the Post is a major sponsor of the event.
C
I forgot that for a time, 9630 had upper taillights ( the ones near the route indicator sign) similiar to the newer Orions (4200-4400s and the 2100-2200s)
The 9600's sure seem like they're in rough shape these days. They're only 10 years old, all have been repainted, but they look pretty raggedy. Great Orion quality. Meanwhile the 16 year old Flxibles, at least some of the repainted ones, look brand new and are running like a charm.
Wow...really? I recall the 9600s looking pretty good when I last visited in 2000; the one I saw was in the newer scheme. And yes, the Flx Metros looked BEAUTIFUL!
The first Metros in DC are the same age as the ones in Blacksburg that have outlasted the 1989 RTS fleet, which was just canned for a fleet of New Flyer LFs.
-F.
I saw two Orions looking pretty good, but overall, you are right most of them look like they might have to be rehabbed again, this time with newer engines. The Flxibles, that are in the new paint scheme look as new as they had when they were repainted, some over six years ago. You would think that 8806 was rehabbed after 9652 (it looks not in good shape), by the way 8806 (looks great).
Get a pic of 8806 if you can. I want to see it!
-F.
Got it at Silver Spring a week ago just need to get my film developed.
Okey doke; keep me posted, Wes.
-F.
9352 is also rehabbed, but retained it's wrap-around lights. I think 9387 & 9408 as well.
Wayne
I remember seeing 9410, among some of the first group of 9300's and 9400s to be rehabbed, it also had wrap around tailights but was not repainted in the new paint scheme. But when I saw 9304 and 9325 rehabbed with the new tailights, I first went euch!, what the hell were they thinking doing that to a Flxible. By the way, even though Baltimore's new Flxible taillights are just as ugly, they look better than WMATA's.
I agree; they just don't look right on a Flx. On an RTS, they look okay, but Metros were BORN to have those wraparound taillights!
I saw 9410 today, it is not repainted and has the wraparound lights but I was not on it and can not tell you if it was rehabbed.
This one was one of the first to be rehabbed. About half of them were rehabbed in the old paint scheme, and the other half rehabbed in the new paint scheme. Mostly all of the rehabs will have extra turn signals at the top, either parallel to the bus number or just under the bus number.
Really? Got a pic? Never seen the rehab upper taillights.
I think so. I know I have 8806, but sure if I caught the back.
Oops! Maybe it's 9408. The main thing for me is seeing those with the wrap-around lights. 9357 is another that in the old color scheme with wrap-around lights.
Wayne
Today, saw 9359, rehabbed and repainted with its wrap around taillights still on. Also, 9367 is in its old paint scheme and still has its wrap around taillights.
So are newer rehabs being done without LEDs? I hope so.
-F.
No - Unfortunately, all of the Metro D's and E's got the LED lights when they were rehabbed. I was hoping that a few of them would escape with their wrap-around lights, but it doesn't look like that has happened. Darn!
Wayne
Barf. Oh well, at least the buses are still around.
-F.
I agree. Anything but those South Park-looking LEDs. Ugh.
-F.
There was also a GM RTS that had a driver's side window similiar to the Novabus ones (non-WFD). There also a GMC RTS that has been painted in the new WMATA paint scheme. Also I don't know how I forgot this one, but 9112 the only surburbanized WMATA RTS.
Around 1983/1984, Metro had two buses, numbered 8800 and 4000. These were ex-NYCTA buses sent to WMATA to replace two buses (from the infamous loaner fleet of 1981/82) that fell off the pier that they were stored on into the Hudson River. 4000 was a 1969 Flxible 111cd051, in the standard NYC bench seating. 8800 was a 1969 TDH-5305, with the high-backed express seats. These buses operated out of the Northern Garage and used usually during rush hours only, mostly on the 60 and the P-Takoma lines. I'm sure these disappeared when the Flxible Metros arrived.
That must have been the Flxible I saw. I had never seen a Flxible like that running for WMATA. I think this bus was running on a 90 route when I saw it. I was traveling with my mother on an AMG heading towards Southeast.
I used to see that one coming through Fort Totten on one of the E routes, I believe, but not certain, but remember hearing the different sounding engine. It sounded more like a Fishbowl than a Flx New Look. I vaguely remember the 8800 bus, too. It had high back blue seats in it, from what I recall. I think that was used sometimes on the R9 because it would deadhead on Riggs Road heading south.
Does anyone have pictures of these busses(i regretfully have not seen any Rts's older than the 04s to my knowledge)
I don't know how to post pictures on this site. If you e-mail me privately, I can send some pictures of slopebacks if that's what you mean.
The H4 runs from Brookland or Fort Totten to Tenlytown, and they use Bladensburg buses, that is where some of the 30's Bladensburg buses comes from. Also the B2, and U2 go into Southeast with the latter using mostly CNGs and both use Bladensburg so some buses come from there.
Also don't underestimate the girth of the 30 buses as well as the 42. The 30s run a lot of buses, and Southeast can't handle that load alone. Southeast also has to run buses to the Anacostia Station (which is mind boggling), so they can't alone help out the 30 routes. In addition, Southeast help out the routes that run in Southern P.G. County that don't run from Landover and that takes up some of those buses. That is why a lot of Southeast buses are not in the best of shape, because they are worn thin with the many runs they have. Also, using route 50 and 295 south, Bladensburg can get buses to Southeast in allowable time to run the 30s. It is true that most fo the buses come from Southeast, but don't be surprised if you see a Bladensburg bus on this route or see more Bladensburg buses than Southeast buses. Finally, the 30 starts at the Potomac Avenue Station, not that far from the Bladensburg Garage. As far as Western is concerned, 143 buses during run hour cannot help their routes during rush hour so they have to use other garages. So don't be shocked to see Bladesburg buses on the 30, it has been happening for a long as I remember and that is a long time.
I don't go on that end of the route all that often. I can tell you now that the number of Bladensburg runs is very small. Also, I do not believe that any Hs runs become 30s. I've seen the Tenleytown short turns and they were using Western buses. There are hardly any 30 runs that don't have to make a round trip to Friendship Heights anyway and almost all the 30s end at Archives, not Potomac Avenue. Finally, Southern only covers so many of the 30 runs, the bulk come from Western.
If everything goes as planned, Western should have a new garage in six years. The article on WMATA's website didn't say if this new garage will have more bus spaces, to eleviate using buses from Bladensburg and Southern or if it will have CNG capabilities. I guess we will see in about six years.
July 30th, 2002
On this date in...
1907...The Fifth Avenue Coach Company removes the last of its horse cars from the Avenue. They are replaced with double decker buses.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hey...cool! Are any of these preserved anywhere?
As far as the horsecars go, I don't know. As far as the double deckers go, the NY Transit Museum has one, doesn't run though.
Peace,
ANDEE
That's what I was asking about...the double-deckers. And were those American buses or European?
Okay, I asked this before and I know that I could find the answer out myself if I only knew where in the blue hell NIMCO Scrap yard is. And yes I know it's in New Jersey but where. Is this the one off Route 1&9. As I posted earlier, about 114 Flxible Metro-B's have been sold at an auction. About 57 from the #3000-3280 series and 47 from the #3500-3605 series. Also, some Volvo's and MCI M-9A's and M-9B's.
Does anyone know the numbers of the Flxibles?
Thanks in Advance
I hope they do not gwt scrapped...save 'em if you can, folks.
My friend said that some could be sold to other companies through NIMCO while others are scrapped for parts.
I was at nimco, last friday, I saw 3572 the bus involoved in the bus lane crash last year and 3526, but in the back I saw a whole line of flxibles, numbers are unknown, it is a shame but I have to say that they are going to that bus garage in the sky..............=-(
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Tony, that's terrible; if only someone would come along and preserve thsoe poor things....
I know right. I wish I had a garage big enough for like 3 Metro B's.
MAN IT IS SAD!
Tony M.
I know, Tony; I agree. I think the Metro Bs were among the best looking, too. There is still a fleet of them running at Blacksburg Transit (Virginia Tech); I will try to take photos while I still can.
-Fred
OK Fred,
Can't wait to see them.
Tony
Fred,
You can be the first in line to save one!
Good...push me up there! I plan to do my part when Blacksburg retires their Metro Bs in the next year or two. I know the buses well, and all I have to do is drive 45 minutes down I-81 to pick one up. For the moment, they are still running strong on the fleet!
-F.
What kind of Flxibles are they, Flxible? Are they 40 Ft with DDEC 6v92TA engines or 35 Ft with Cummins?
Argh. Well, parts are good to have; I just hope the first candidates are totalled buses and not perfectly good ones.
-F.
Here are some possible service changes that can be made when Gateway Plaza opens later this year or next year
The following lines are to be effected: B6,B13,B14,B17,B20,B35,and a new route to be created to be called B-21
B6-Will be rerouted from New Lots Ave Station to Brooklyn GMF via Flatlands Ave,Gateway Plaza,Crescent St and Stanley Avenue. For service to New Lots Ave see new B-21 route.
B-13-will loop around Gateway Plaza and be extended to Starrett City
B-14- will be extended from Loring Ave to Gateway Plaza
B-17-All service will operate from Eastern Parkway to Seaview Ave/E.108th Street only. For service to E.80th St see new B-21 route.
B-20-Will operate to Gateway Plaza via Wortman Ave,Fountain Ave,Gateway Plaza
B-21-new route Will operate from Seaview Ave/E.80th Street to New Lots Ave IRT Station via current B-17 and B-6 routes with minor changes.Service will operate 24 hours a day. To be called B-21 Glenwood Road/Cozine Ave and assigned to East New York Depot.
B-35-MacDonald Ave buses will be extended to Elderts Lane via New Lots Ave,Penn. Ave, LInden Blvd.
Any comments
Thank You
will they bulit a bus layor area at Gateway Center like they have at Roosevelt Field or Kings Plaza?
Why extend the B13 to Starret City? I think it would be better off ending at Gateway Plaza. Starret City will screw up the B13(making it too long like the B82). I hope the TA changes this, or else my B13 will become another Q58(shivers).
Or here's another idea, let the B20 go to Starret City, instead of the B13. Starret City doesn't deserve any FP routes. Let the B20 have two destinations, one to Gateway(FP), and one to Starret City(ENY).
B-20 does not have enough service to justify two branches. The headway on each branch will be much too long
Thank You
Well I believe that Command Bus must take advantage this advantage and create an extension on the B103 or B 101 or B 102 as mention before. With some major tuning it will be better than taken a B 21. As for other routes
B6: Insted of the split to be at Rock Pky Sta. Keep the route as is and reroute some buses to New Lots Sta and the other portion to Gateway. The Gateway portion would turn on Penn Av onto Flatlands, Crescent then Seaview.
B 13 terminate at Gateway.
B14 I 100% agree
B 21 if the B 103 has more service and the B 6 goes by my idea then you don't need this route. This route will turn out to be disaster. I expect 20 minute waits. And not to be a popular route. If anything Command Bus would be better off having this route
B 20 tough call on this one but it should still go to postal Facility. The ENY B 20 should still go to Postal Facility and the FP B 20 should go to Gateway or let all B 20 go to its original route and instead of terminating at the Facility extend along the B 13. This idea can also be used for Postal Facility bound B 15 buses as well
As for the B 35 to Elderts lane. The question is why? It would be better off to Gateway via Penn and Flatlands.
I also see the B 83 via Seaview Av with a bridge improvements to Gateway.
this area of course is going to be leading to Future developments that will require bus routes to occupy. Like Isay agai this is the best time for Command Bus to take advantage and make themselves an attractive and very frequent bus route w/ of course the help of DOT
any comments
Forget any new routes going to Command. They just do not have the buses. Also the B-103 does not run at night or weekends.
The TA's network is much better
Thank You
Its funny that when to the "community" meeting on the B13/18 and B40/78 consolidations, some of these proposals were brought up to the front. Here what I think should happen:
B13 and B14 should be extended to the Gateway Ctr.
The B82 should remain on Flatlands and run across to the Gateway Ctr when the mall is open(Transfer at Van Siclen for the B83 to Strarrett City). During late night hours, run to current Starrett City terminal.
B13#9155
B14#4987
B82#8687
The TA can not get away with that. Too many people use the B-82 from Rockaway Parkway Station and Starett City. It will require a double fare then.
Gateway Plaza needs bus service from following locations
1-Starett City
2-Canarsie-L Line Station
3-New Lots Ave Station IRT
4-Cypress Hills/East New York
5-Queens
Thank You
Well here is a thaught for Queens Service unfortunatly there is no MTA Busses from Queens for the exception of Q 3 at JFK. How about using the Q 7 or Q 8 to Gateway via Conduit or make a new MTA Queens bus route a Q 89 from Gateway to Rosedale via the Conduit. Like I said just thaught and this a rough draft any thaughts
Well then, have two branches of the B82. Similar to the B38 and B41. Amyhow, whenever Im in Starrett City. I always see more people wait for the B83 instead of the B82. I think the primary reason is that the B83 offer better subway connections than the B82.
B83: A,C,J,L,Z,1,4 trains plus LIRR.
B82: L at Rock Pkwy. The next subway connection is the Brighton at Kings Hwy.
Well then, have two branches of the B82. Similar to the B38 and B41. Amyhow, whenever Im in Starrett City, I always see more people wait for the B83 instead of the B82. I think the primary reason is that the B83 offer better subway connections than the B82.
B83: A,C,J,L,Z,1,4 trains plus LIRR.
B82: L at Rock Pkwy. The next subway connection is the Brighton at Kings Hwy.
If you look at the schedules of both the B-82 and B-83 you will notice the following
B-82-15 minuates traveling time during AM peak from Penn/Seaview Ave to Rockaway Pkway Station. L train operates every 4 minuates during AM peak with traveling time 9 minuates to Broadway Junction with a guarnteed seat as this is the first stop on the L Line at Rockaway Parkway
B-83- 30 minuates traveling time during AM peak from Penn/Seaview Ave to Broadway Junction and thats if no traffic delays on Pennsylvina Ave near Atlantic Ave/Jamaica Ave area. If you enter the subway you will not get any seats on the A,C,J/Z or L lines
I believe most Starrett City residents prefer the B-82 option instead.
Thats why you can not split the B-82
Thank You
I still feel that people will cry for an east-west bus route to get to that mall and the B82 is the perfect canidate(IMO). Therefore I think that there should be two branches of the B82 as I proposed earlier.
I also beleive the only people staying on the B82 to get to the L train are people that are going past Bway Jct. Most people will take the B83 to Bway Jct to get the A and J trains. Plus you cannot forget the 1 train at Livonia Ave.
Well there is a little bit of time left before portions of the mall starts to open,, which is scheduled for Sept 10
Its funny that when I went to the "community" meeting on the B13/18 and B40/78 consolidations, some of these proposals were brought up to the front. Here what I think should happen:
B13 and B14 should be extended to the Gateway Ctr.
The B82 should remain on Flatlands and run across to the Gateway Ctr when the mall is open(Transfer at Van Siclen for the B83 to Strarrett City). During late night hours, run to current Starrett City terminal.
B13#9155
B14#4987
B82#8687
Saw it today at Wisconsin and N while waiting for a 30 something in the other direction just after 1. I got 4307 from Georgetown to Friendship Heights. Wisconsin Avenue was closed off due to some sort of accident between Fessenden and Harrison Streets. The detour that they were running was as follows:
To Friendship
R on 42nd
R on Garrison
L on 41st
L on Harrison
R on Wisconsin
Resume normal route
To Southeast, the detour appeared to be
L on Harrison
R on 42nd
L on Fessenden
L on Wisconsin
Resume normal route
Quite a mess with the buses and Wisconsin Avenue overflow traffic trying to navigate the residential streets. Would have made for interesting pics but I needed to meet someone.
Ride-On Gillig 5390 is missing its rear decal.
I have pictures and will post them later today.
where does metro store its scrapped and wrecked buses? also, if there is a facility(ies) that does, where would it(they) be?
Fort Totten is one location. When you get off the Metro, exit the faregates and when you reach the street, cross it. Turn right and look for a fenced in lot. That is one location. There is an auxilary lot near Landover Garage that also stores some of those vehicles.
Metro has a yard at Fort Totten where most of its decommissioned RTS and New Looks were stored prior to their 2000 auction as surplus; there was a rare remaining AM General at this location for some time as well. This location is visible from the rail platform and is located across from the metered parking lot . . . the last time I was there there were a number of construction trailers and a chain link fence around the site.
Metro also, I understand, maintains a similar facility near New Carrollton, although other board regulars may have more information on that than I.
C
The Landover yard has a storage and scrap yard. In one yard, that they had, even before Landover had a regular garage, they had a storage lot. I am not sure if scrap buses, they certainly have storage buses. When I last past the lot on the train, they had some decommissioned Gilligs, MANNs, one 30' Flxible New Look, one GMC New Look in the original silverside paint scheme, but no Flxible Metros.
Over two years ago, WMATA bought the old Hechinger's headquarters and yard and made that yard a storage yard for both new and decommisioned buses. The first ones to use that yard was the storage the Orion 6s, and the 2100-2200s. Now some of the New Flyer CNGs, awaiting service are stored (not all of them, about 20-30 of them) and some buses either wrecked or were vicitms of fires, some scrap buses and decommissioned buses are there. If I am correct, they moved the body shop from Bladensburg to Landover at this site.
Wow...WMATA had 30' New Looks? When were these retired, and how long did they serve? Glad to hear no Flx Metros are endangered as of yet.
Also, we have a WMATA AM General in our historic fleet at CC&T; it has partial cosmetic restoration but has not run for some time.
-F.
Most of them were retired in the early 90's I believe. Back when they came in service in the 70's, some were used on what was once called the "Downtowner" route that traversed the then thriving downtown shopping area and had a red and white striped roof, like a candycane. Then, they were put in regular service. They were in the 5000's, I believe 5050 to 507x. There is a roster list out there on www.omot.org and on Ctrabs list as well. They both have a great roster of buses. I just wish the 1960's era Flxibles stayed around as long as the Fishbowls. A lot of them went up to NYC to pinch hit during the Grumman problems.
I remember seeing pictures of the WMATA New Looks in their "pinch-hitting" days. Also, Time Magazine showed them coming down the street during Reagan's 1981 Inaugural Parade. Around that same time, they had and article with color photos about the Grumman problem, titled "Can Anyone Fx These Flxibles?". In it, they show Chicago area Grummans, along with an engine cradle being welded per the recall.
Does anyone out there have pics of the WMATA 30-foot New Looks?
I remember riding one as late as 1995 or early 1996 on the M4 one day, subbing for the then-prevalent 30-foot Metro Bs. Don't remember the unit number but do remember those easy-on-the-butt padded red vinyl seats!
Do you know if the retired unit is still at Landover? I'd love to shoot a picture if it is; I'm regretting not getting more shots of WMATA's fishbowls/New Looks when they were in regular service.
C
I miss those New Looks, more the Flxibles than the GM's. I'm not sure if any are at Landover or not. I know a couple of GM's are being preserved by WMATA. There was something on their website a couple of years ago that gave the numbers, but I forgot.
Today, I saw one at the Landover yard, I thought it was a 30' but it looks like a 40'. To correct myself it was the Landover storage yard.
The 40' Flx New Look that is still at the OMS Lot in Landover is the 8415. It was on the surplus sale list that ended July 17 but it was pulled from the sale and has been given to the FBI for training. It will end up being destroyed by them.
Ah crap! They should save at least three of the Flxible New Looks.
One 30', 40' and one of the electronic signed 8500-8600s.
Whoa...they had digital signs on the 85/8600s? How cool! Also, did WMATA ever have any 35' Flx New Looks?
And yes, they should preserve at least that many.
-F.
Yes, 8594-8603 had them. 8600-8603 had their last runs from Landover, before they were retired. I forgot to add a 8000-8100 and a represtative from any inherited Flxible New Look from the privates, one in their paint scheme, and each in the paint scheme of the privates they in herited
To add to that, these units' signs were similar in resolution to those on WMATA's Metro-Bs, although obviously crammed to fit in a smaller sign-panel. IIRC the controllers, at least, were manufactured by Voltron.
While I agree there's a definite "coolness" factor to flipdot-equipped New Looks, in actuality they were fairly dim and difficult to read, partly because of the glass and the angle at which they had to be installed. (The flipdots also appeared, to me, to be faded, but this may have just been their color.) The good old rollsigns were much more legible.
C
NOOOO!!!! Give them a Gillig or something...ANYTHING but that classic Flx!!!
Seems like such a waste. That's as bad as the fishbowl at M.S.B.A. which the fire dept. used as a training bus....
A Flx?
Flxible New Look
Ah...the very same comfy seats we had in our 35-foot Flx New Looks here in Roanoke, only ours were dark red and golden yellow two-tone. Richmond had the all-red vinyl seats in their Flxes, a la the very ones we have in our WMATA AM General at the CC&T.
-Fred
I think at one time, Metro might have had three paint schemes, for the 30 footers. The ones that were running in P.G., had a different paint scheme. Between the front and back doors the red and blue stripes rise up and before they get to the windows, they curve towards the front door. There were also a few in the original paint scheme (Metro's first paint scheme). Also good to hear, when the WMATA Flxibles, in service for Ride-On, were repainted, they were just repainted, and not given that atrocious taillight package all of the 4000s now have. Most of these run from Landover.
Amen. That taillight setup is just that, atrocious. Can you tell me where to find pics of the scheme variations you spoke of?
-F.
I am not sure where to find them. Hopefully there is someplace or some publication that would have it, probably archived Washington Posts. I am sure those paint schemes would have gotten some press, since they were different than the normal 1st edition WMATA paint scheme.
The Last batch of Metrobuses sold included 5080, 5081, 5083, 5088, 5090, 5091 5092, 8415, 9060, 9075, 5104, 5105, 5109, 5111, 5113, 5126, 5127, 5130, 5131, 5133 and 1404.
Orion 07.501 Compressed Natural Gas Version
Orion 07.501 Hybrid Electric Version
As you can see, NO real differences except for that the CNG version has the CNG tanks on the roof and the HEV version has the batteries on the roof, causing a different size in the roof casing, The Interior is identical and everything else is the same.
Specs:
Orion 07.501 CNG is speced out with a Detroit Diesel Series 50G DDEC IV Engine with a Allison B500R 5-Speed Transmission.
Orion 07.501 HEV is speced out with a Cummins ISB Electronic Engine combined with a BAE (Ex-Lockheed Martin) HybriDrive System.
I Also Have Video Clips of the buses if you wish, just e-mail me @ tlogan@transitalk.org and I'll send it to ya!
Hope This Helps Everyone Out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
BTW Orion 7 HEV Photos Available @ TransiTALK!
I saw that the bus had 38 seats, not 40 like 7560, as I mention in a few other threads (ehh...). I think it's because of the configuration of the seats above the wheel well on 7560, I found it extremely hard to sit in that area, since the space was a bit tight for my long legs...lol...6365 changed it by adding aisle-facing seats instead of forward-facing...just wanted to mention it as I noticed it once I got on my first time on Thursday.
Thank you
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
"Orions on Bx19"
Another minor detail ( blame maintenance ) . Position of front license plate .
Ah, yes, glad u noticed that...I did too, looking at my new 6365 pics and looking back at all my 7560 pics.
Cleanairbus
I saw 4310 back on a Royal route today. It was running on the 10A, heading towards the Pentagon. 1C/Ballston was correct when he spotted this bus back in Virginia. I know that Southeast's 4200s are almost everywhere and this could have been that bus, but it probably wasn't. I wonder if 4311 is back at Royal also, because I saw on a 30 route a couple of weeks ago.
It seems like a lot of buses are being swapped and reswapped. Orion VI 2099, ex Bladensburg, has been running around out of Four Mile Run lately.
Also have been seeing a lot of ex Montgomery 9200's around in VA, 9285-9289, a lot of 9220's and almost all of the 9770's and 80's that came out of Montgomery are in VA. I did see 9251 running down 395 recently, too.
Just wait until all of the CNGs are in service, then we will really see some garage swapping. Saw 4310 again at the Springfield Metro Station, running on an 18 route. Also 3908, another ex-Bladensburg bus was at Springfield also running the S80/81, and saw 9322(2B) and 9323(3A).
Yeah, all the diesels will be running around VA then. I know they want to do something to the garage here in Ballston, but not sure where a replacement would be built since all the land is zoned for housing/commercial use, not for a bus garage. I guess they could do something similar to what they want to do at Western and build it under something. Ballston has outgrown its industrial look and is now basically the yuppie highrise capital of No. VA. Of course, the new Washington Capitals Traning facility is supposed to be built on top of the parking garage at Ballston Mall across from my apt. so that would be kind of fun
I know they was thinking of closing it years ago, but decided to just cut it down and build a road there. Honestly, they need to build one in Fairfax County since some of the buses that run from Arlington run in Fairfax County. They need to pay their fair share, I don't care if they have two Fairfax Connector garages, so does Montgomery County, and they have a WMATA bus garage there also. I do think they should keep the one at Arlington, maybe doing the same thing like they are going to do at Western.
By my test of length and time from Bladensburg to Landover to see if it could be possible. It could, but will Landover have them and the answer is no. Until further notice, every last one of those CNGs will be housed at Bladensburg. Even though they are housed at Bladensburg, they could be used on some Landover routes such as the R12, V14, T18 and 84, since these bus routes are near the Bladensburg garage. But with WMATA you never know, sometimes they are full of surprises, like the one they dropped, changing that 100 CNG order to 164.
You'd probably want to know why and how. Well tonight, on my way home, I timed traveling from the Bladensburg garage to the Landover garage. It took about 6-8 minutes when traveling about 50 on 50. Interesting when traveling on 50, I spotted a New Flyer heading towards Bladensburg, around the exit for the Cheverly Station. Coinsidence, I think not.
What are you trying to say? The issue is not whether or not Landover could have a CNG plant, it is the fact that it doesn't and it is not cost efficient to shuttle buses back and forth each night to be topped off.
Most likely not cost efficient but just wondering. But it is just moot point, because even if they were to run at Landover they would have been running now. The fact that they aren't running at Landover or from any other garage (for now), should rest this subject once and all. In other news,WMATA could be ordering another 250 of these CNGs, this time for Virginia. These will be housed at Four Mile Run but if all 250 were ordered, I don't think they will all be housed at Four Mile Run, unless they get rid of every WMATA and PRTC bus there. Some probably would also go to Bladensburg.
Also, though it might not happen, just don't discount the possibility, based on the fact they are running on the 42 during rush hour (only one) and the 30's (again only one). This maybe part of their experiment. Haven't seen one on the past two weeks, but they were running on these two routes, and the 42 is a ways away from Bladensburg. But as I said in my original post the possibility of these buses running from Landover is as much as the possibility of 60 footers running on Ride-On route 96.
We discussed that a few 30 runs come from Bladensburg and the 42 has runs from there, too.
The only thing that can run on the 96 is the contracted buses, until Ride-On actually runs the route themselves (not really likely). The 96 doesn't get any more passengers than the 6 anyway.