Bus Rodeo Today at Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn near Kings Plaza.
Coming across the Outerbridge Crossing, brand-new MCIs 2821, 2839, 2840, 2841, and a bus which was too far away for me to catch the number on. Also a pair of TA supervisor cars. As for the one I don't have a number for, it was being pushed through the toll booth by a Port Authority 'K' truck, so something hath gone wrong.
-Hank
BTW, saw 2830 on the x10 today, and got two pics...front and back...apparently, they look JUST like the other MCIs that the TA has...no differences other than that they haev LED tail lamps similar to the 1998 MCIs...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! (Note the new, temporary address) If you have mIRC, do not click the link. The room name is #chathamsquare and is on the webchat.org server. COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
Don't use that gay pink color to announce the chats.
That's such an incriminating statement. So what if he's using pink?
It doesn't matter if he uses pink or not, I just don't want it to be used.
Oh, ok.
I try to change the colors every so often, tonight's choice was pink. I used blue on SubTalk. I hardly ever use pink anyway, I doubt you will see it for awhile.
Today I was at the MTA Bus Roadeo. It was great! There was even a Roadeo Shuttle running today from Ave U to the Roadeo. New Flyer D60 #5508 from Gun Hill Depot did the roadeo shuttle. Here's what buses and trains I rode today.
R32 #34xx E Line
BM2 Orion5 CNG #4958
Q35 TMC RTS #1171
Roadeo Shuttle New Flyer D60 HF#5508(2 Times)
B41 TMC RTS #8313(Repowered)
BM2 Orion5 CNG #4954
QM4 Orion5 CNG #531
Q60 Orion5 #5508.
If anybody in here saw me. I was wearing a Green T-Shirt with a pocket with a Green Puma hat and blue jean shorts. I was wearing Sunglasses but at the most part I was not wearing them at the roadeo. I was at the Roadeo around 3:30-4 PM.
And also at the roadeo. I was not wearing my Puma Hat for the most part.
I did find Maps and Timetables on the buses at the roadeo today. On the New Look with Green Soft Seats there was a case of Brooklyn Bus Maps. On the Orion6 #6353, There was Some Bus Maps and a M5 Timetable. And on the MCI #2170, There was UP Express Bus Timetables in there. And I do got one Question. Where was the Orion5 that was to be at the roadeo? I did not see it when I was there
I was there around that time also wearing a QV hat-white shirt and a backpack. Didn't see ya around.
Here's what I had today-ALL BUSES BTW:
Q53: 3049
Q35: 1152
ARTIC 5508
Q35: 1152 AGAIN
Q22: 628
A SHUTTLE: 4334
Q41: 5543
At the roadeo, you could ride with the driver through an obstacle course so I decided to ride on 9588.
Very clean looking buses.
For those who weren't there today, here's a rundown of the buses that were there:
HISTORIC: 303 3100 6259 8928 8466 7340 5227 236 1201 4149 4396 2679 8602
PRESENT: 9419 9421 9438 9576 9588 9601 9384 4961 4971 5245 911 2170 6353
If I missed any please make note.
BTW: Where was 5117? Noticed she was missing.
#1979 X1
#3049 Q53
#4334 A
Also didn't notice that not 1 of the 3 Vikings were there. Strange.
I did happen to meet up with CleanAirBus as we checked out some drivers knocking over some cones in the obstacle course. All in all it was a great day to see, ride and talk buses.
:)
#5508 SPECIAL
I'm surprised none of FP's 96'Novas(9140-9185) made it to the Rodeo. I didn't go to the Rodeo, but I'm definitely going to Bus Fest. I can't wait, only 19 days left
-
5/31/02
B13-Nova #9605
Are you sure it was #8313 on the B41 - I thought I saw this bus the other day from Yukon?? - Flatbush got CAS's RTSs (8317-8339)
Must be 8331. I believed that onee is repowered.
B46#8331
yes it is repowered. and a piece of junk
My bad! It was #8324 on the B41 REPOWERED!
Even though I only work for a NYC bus company, I did enjoy the line up of the old TA fleet, which included the not so old a New Flyer & MCI Cruiser. Picked up the new Transit Museum brochure that describes each (real nice !)
Didn't see any BusTalkers I recognized, but we four got there in the afternoon.
It looked like the familys there were having fun (coloring, jumping rope, getting their photo taken, etc.)
My SUBWAYtalk group (to be honest two amoug us are also bus fans ... Heypaul & Hart Bus) also went into the hangar next door to see the Naval Air museum planes (they're open evey Saturday ... would make a very nice outting just by it self).
Mr rt__:^)
I was there on Saturday also, from about 12:30 to 3. Didn't see anyone I knew. Lo-floor Flyer 911 was there- someone said it was being "retired" due to its number. If so, that's a little extreme. Was able to get what little food was left.
That hangar WAS something else- definitely worth a return visit.
Hope we can get a bunch of us together for the June 22 fest.
Howard, Sorry we missed you ! Did you bring your son, if so I'll bet he had a better time then you < G >
Mr rt__:^)
Nah, I went solo. I took the boy to the past two Roadeos, at South Beach in 2000 and Orchard Beach 2001. In 2000- in stifling heat- he was able to sit in the drivers' seats and pretend to drive. My wife managed to con her way in to get extra grub. But last year the drivers' seats were all taped off just as they are at the Busfest. That took all the fun out of it for him.
We will try to make the Fest on the 22nd.
If bus 911 were going to be retired because of its number, that probably would have happened already. More likely would be that the bus would be renumbered -- not that that's happening, either.
David
Right ... frequent flyers will tell you they change the flight number after a big crash.
I would assume that NYCT would "retire" the number 911, not the actual bus.
Jim D.
I don't see the point. We're not going to retire the emergency services phone # in this country, and will no delimiter between the 9 and the 11, it reminds one more of that than of the date.
It was great to see the old bus fleet. Also nice to see the old fishbowl that was cut down and modified by the TA and was used to give out the "rewards" to the participants
The bus has one window after the front door, a left side emergency door welded in place and two windows between the welded door and the back of the bus.
There was number painted on the bus, no builder's plate or registration in the window to try and find out the number.
As a sign of the times we live in, part of the Floyd Bennet Field complex is home to the NYPD"s emergency service unit. Thurston, Heypaul, BMTman and myself were startled to see as we drove onto FBF that there are two redbirds on that part of the field. We couldn't get close enough to see the numbers, but the guard told us that they are they to train members of the ESU in terrorist tactics.
The cut-down Fishbowl was #8602.
Now what was that Fishbowl aiming for the skies?!
Although a certain Sub-Talker was able to get close enough to take pics of the Redbirds, he did not see any identifying marks on that NYPD fishbowl......It has no A/C unit on the back and therefore is not ex TCC # 743 from Highway Dist # 3
[Someone else] told me that Fishbowl has resided at Floyd Bennett for several years, and looks like an earlier model.
Mike, I think somebody wanted to re-enact a scene from 'Speed'...LOL!
Okay, so Bus Fest will be on June 22nd, right?
Does anybody have some insider info on what buses will be there this year? I want to know what I can look forward to.
:D
I just heard castleton has gotten some of there new mci's, and yukon got 2 more.
spoke to a supervisor at the bus roadeo. all 25 mci buses will go to castleton. the bus being pushed across bridge ran out of gas. 11 orion suburbans from castleton will be sent to yukon. 2270 and 2660 were to be towed from yukon saturday to meet their fate. others will follow. the fleet of locals will consist of 8293-8316, orion locals and orion suburbans.
The new bus ran out of gas? What dope let that happen? Did he once work for Air Canada?
-Hank
they routinely run out of gas but usually make it closer to the depot. mci fills them up when they leave the midwest plant. this tank of gas is supposed to last till they arrive at their respective depots. they are driven to atlantic diesel at piscataway n.j. from there nyc transit b/o pick them up and bring them to the depots.the vendor does not supply gas for the buses(atlantic diesel).
Humph. Cars leave the factory with a small amount of fuel, enough for them to be hostled around at dealerships and loading yards. But you always get a full tank at the dealership. The dealer (vendor) should ensure the bus will have sufficent fuel to reach the customers home.
Special points to anyone who can figure out my Air Canada remark.
-Hank :)
I had an opportunity on Saturday afternoon to be in Oneida County, New York, so I decided to check out some buses there. I first made my way to the city of Rome, where I knew from some Internet surfing that the local bus service was called VIP Transportation, and that they did operate Orion I's at one point, but little else about the system. I was expecting a small operation with maybe one or two buses cruising a couple of routes, and probably with 2 hour headways to boot. I was pleasantly surprised to find a neat little system of five buses operating on eight local routes with headways of 45 to 60 minutes. Operations are centered around the main bus terminal at Madison and Liberty Streets, which is located on the ground floor of a parking garage. Connections are available to the Utica-Rome Bus Company (to Utica, naturally) and to Birnie Bus Service which stops in Rome as part of its Syracuse-Utica line. The VIP Transportaion buses operate on a pulse schedule out of the terminal. Service hours are 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday-Friday, and 9:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. on Saturdays.
The VIP fleet consists of 30-foot Orion V's in a white with gold stripe paint scheme with black window band. The buses appear to be equipped with the DD Series 50 engine (I didn't know this powerplant was available for shorty buses). Interestingly, the buses are numbered in multiples of 10 ... I photographed buses 80, 100 and 120. My guess is that the last digit may represent the year of manufacture - in this case 2000, as the buses looked relatively new. The buses are also equipped with actual rollsigns with the wordiest destination readings I've ever seen - I think every street the route operates over is found on the sign! For those who might be interested in photographing this system, the bus terminal itself is too dark and compact for photography, but photo opportunities are available on the surrounding streets (I photographed buses entering the terminal from Madison Street). If you like small city bus operations, Rome, New York is definitely worth a stop.
Approximately five miles east of Rome is the town of Oriskany, the home to Orion's U.S. plant. The facility consists of several buildings located along Base Road, and most of the yard area can be easily seen from the road. Yesterday, I spotted several 35-foot diesel Orion V's awaiting delivery to Fairfax Connector in suburban Washington D.C., a lone Orion V CNG for MTA Long Island Bus (#393), and a fleet of 40-foot Orion V CNG's for a customer (I couldn't see the name) whose paint scheme is white with a black window area and several thin blue horizontal stripes and a mountain-like logo.
There were several other interesting sightings at Orion. I spotted dozens of Orion VII CNG buses, many of which were painted for Atlanta's MARTA (but not lettered or numbered). I wasn't aware until yesterday that MARTA and several other Georgia transit authorities are receiving Orion VII's, so it appears that New York City will not be the guinea pig for this new design after all. And a sign of the ongoing integration of Orion and Thomas Buses as parts of Daimler Chrysler's Evobus subsidiary was found with the presence of a Thomas SLF235 demonstrator with Orion's logo on the side.
Bus fans who find themselves in Oneida County can also check out the Utica Transit Authority, which operates six days a week with a fleet of Orion I and Orion V buses (unfortunately, I did not have the time yesterday to check out UTA).
Jim D.
I saw the website that said that MARTA was getting Orion CNGs, but it wasn't as specific as to say it would be Orion VII CNGs, but I guess it shouldn't have been too much of a mystery...
Also, CDTA in Albany is supposed to get Orions as well...probably Orion 7s...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
What website was this?
So I'll be on the lookout for 393, it should be headed down here soon.
This bus is still sitting under the boardwalk at CS. However this bus was moving around quite a bit inside the parking lot this past Friday 05/31/02. Question will this bus become a CS bus ? Is CS and QV splitting their fleets half RTS and half Orion?
There are no plans to send any RTS's over to Stengel. If you saw the bus moving around the parking lot but no place else, I get the impression it is being used for 19A recertification. They may want to make sure the operators know how to handle an RTS as well as an Orion.
I'm quite sure in near future the bus will be sent back to QV. If it was being transferred to Stengel on a permanent basis, it would have been in passenger service already, along with the Stengel logos placed on it.
BIG AL
QV bus 4901 is now at QV where it belongs. It is currently parked outside the maintenance bays with the rest of the junk to be repaired.
Mark
Yesterday I wound up waiting over 30 minutes for an N27, which was 30 minutes late. It was the last one to Glen Cove that day, and the bus assigned #288 broke down.
Today my bus, this time an N21 heading toward Flushing was also 30 minutes late. Must've been another breakdown. Also saw an N20 operating 20 minutes late.
Funny how it seems breakdowns always happen in two's and three's.
Of course without accurate statistics, I can't focus on which buses may be breaking down. It has been hot lately, and I've been told the DDC Series 50 CNG's overheat alot.
Question though. If buses overheat, can't there just be a "cooling station" at the terminal where the engine can be sprayed or something?
speak of lated buses the septa rts.44 was one hour late.
The 44 has a horrible route. You are at the mercy of the expressway and if that isn't going anywhere, you aren't either. The 44, 121, 9, and all the other routes that run on I-76 should be able to use local streets or the shoulders like the WMATA SmartMover buses in Maryland on the Beltway.
In Philadelphia, the highways are referred to by name.
I-76 is the SureKill.
I know, I just don't want to try to spell the name the I-76 has.
Schuykyl, how bad was that?
Try 'Schuylkill.' The Schuylkill Expressway. ;)
C
It's the SureKill Expressway.
If the MTA had that many 'cooling stations' as you put it, considering the number of terminals in the city, it wouldn't be cost-effective.
Yesterday when I was going to take the BM2 to 57 St and 3 Ave from Flatbush and Nostrand. At 1st, There was no sign for it so my mom to ask the people from the B11 and I did not since I going to know that they won't know. Then I ask a Driver where's the BM2 stop and the driver told me to check the sign and no luck. Then a BM2 pulls into a stop without a sign for the BM2 and me and my MOM had to run for it and I yell Hold It and the driver saw me running so he stop and open the door and me and my mom got on.
The BM2 and B103 stop at a Green Pole with a Bus Logo and No Standing sign with it. The sign is not marked with the BM2 and the B103. Is there anyway I could file a report to put up the Route #'s on those Signs?
Well, take it up with the Department of Transportation since they are the ones that put up bus stop signs...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Try reporting the problem to the NYCDOT at the link below -
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/signs/signrepr.html
or call them at (718) 225-5368.
Not that it's a valid excuse, but why would anybody at Flatbush/Nostrand want to take a premium fare bus to either Downtown Brooklyn or Manhattan when an underground vehicle that runs every 8-10 minutes is right downstairs? Plus, the B-41 runs local and limited service to downtown Brooklyn as well.
I noticed from your itinerary that you did take the E train from Queens at the beginning of your trip, so why did you avoid subways the rest of the day? Just curious!
Some people are afraid of the subway for psychological reasons. Feelings of clausrophobia for example. Maybe they are afraid of no way to get out in case of fire or crime. This could be a reason why the the TA itself operates express buses in Brooklyn and Queens which are in direct competition with the subways they should promote. The passenger to crew ratio on a train is much higher than that on a bus and that translates into higher productivity.
I understand that, and I also understand the posts pointing out how the elderly and the handicapped prefer buses due to the amount of stairs to negotiate or maybe they don't like to ride elevators. What I couldn't figure out is if any or all of those apply in this case, why or how was the E TRAIN taken at the beginning of the trip? If they were "afraid" of the subways, I don't think they would have been on the E Train. If they didn't want to ride elevators or walk many steps, I don't think they would have been on the E Train. That is my point! I was just asking why they would try to ride a bus that runs very infrequently (on Saturdays), deal with all kinds of vehicular traffic, and doesn't even take them directly to their final destination, while a subway line was directly under their feet.
One reason is that you have a lot of people who are handicapped, elderly, or just cannot take the multitude of staircases and ramps that our great "Handicapped Unaccesible" subway system has to offer.
The Flatbush Avenue station is accessible via elevator, as is the Seventh Avenue Line part of the Borough Hall station. In addition, all B41 buses are accessible via wheelchair lift.
David
Yes, but suppose you want to go to any of the other 400 some odd subway stations in the 4 boroughs of New York City? What then?
We were SPECIFICALLY discussing the B103 route, which has a stop at Flatbush & Nostrand Avenues and ends near Borough Hall. A trip between these two points can be made via subway or via local/limited bus as well as via the B103, whether a person is elderly/disabled or not.
David
"Not that it's a valid excuse, but why would anybody at Flatbush/Nostrand want to take a premium fare bus to either Downtown Brooklyn or Manhattan when an underground vehicle that runs every 8-10 minutes is right downstairs? Plus, the B-41 runs local and limited service to downtown Brooklyn as well."
I was responding to the above post by 5301 Fishbowl as well as the title of this post (between the two, clearly indicates BM2 & B103 which serves Manhattan & Downtown Brooklyn respectively).
However, there should be a sign indicating any mode of transportation that operates at any location regardless if they terminate or serve the same destination.
I never said I thought there shouldn't be a sign for the BM2 and B103 at Flatbush & Nostrand. Of course there should be a sign there.
I never even made the quote in the post I'm responding to now, that seemingly is being attributed to me. Someone else did.
What I WAS responding to was an assertion that people would want the B103 SPECIFICALLY at Flatbush & Nostrand Avenues SPECIFICALLY because it's accessible to elderly and disabled riders. My point is that there are other, less expensive alternatives FOR THOSE PEOPLE, AT THAT LOCATION, that go where the B103 is going. Although the quote in the post I'm responding to now wasn't made by me, I agree with the substance. That in no way implies that I think there should be no sign at Flatbush & Nostrand Avenues indicating the existence of B103 service at that location. If people want to ride it, rather than the B41 or subway alternatives, that's there business.
David
Thank you for agreeing with the "substance" of my quote. While people can take any bus that they choose, the purpose of the B-103 and the BM2 is to serve people from CANARSIE, where transit options are limited or many transfers would have to be made to reach their destination. The B-103 and the BM2 just happen to pass by Flatbush/Nostrand, most people don't even think of those routes when thinking about transit options available there.
Hundreds of buses just happen to pass by Flatbush/Nostrand everyday. But the B103 and BM2 STOP at Flatbush/Nostrand, therefore the B103 and the BM2 is to serve these people as well. Maybe the reason why most people don't even think of those routes when thinking about transit options available there is because of the lack of signs.
I have talked to several people in that area. They don't even know about the B103/BM2.
Those "hundreds of buses" you refer to are most likely the B-41, which has been called the "Flatbush Avenue" route for many decades. That route runs 7 days a week, 24 hours per day. Even if the Department of Transportation erected signs AND Guide-A-Rides, even if the Command Bus Corporation hired dancing girls to promote the B-103 and the BM-2, even if they gave out free gifts to promote those routes, I'm sure there would be very few riders who would get on or off at Flatbush/Nostrand. With the subway running right downstairs and the B-41 running much more often and more regularly, most people wouldn't want to wait for the more erratic running routes. They would have to make sure it's the right time of the day and the right day of the week to determine whether it will arrive or not. Ultimately, before a typical rider will try to figure all this out, the blaring, annoying horn of an illegal van will entice them to ride with them!
Maybe if they were found on a bus map, people might notice it.
BTW,
there is a BOT express bus map out that shows the routes for the express buses in NYC. I found it ONLY because I noticed the BOT offices when I was passing by on an elevator.
I forget if it was at Thomas Street or 1250 B'way.
I believe the B103 is now on the MTA Brooklyn Bus Map.
Next time I work at a booth that has a Brooklyn Bus Map, I'll take a look at one.
Now, I honestly cannot tell you anything about the B103 because I have never been on it. But the B41 is another story. The B41, whether limited or unlimited is a drastically slow and painfully crowded line that a lot of people, especially handicapped and disabled people would rather not ride if they knew of another way.
So to respond to your point "that there are other, less expensive alternatives FOR THOSE PEOPLE, AT THAT LOCATION, that go where the B103 is going."
Maybe THOSE PEOPLE AT THAT LOCATION would probably choose the more expensive B103, because it is less crowded and presumably faster than the B41 (limited or unlimited stops).
If this is not true about the B103, then I stand corrected.
The B103 was a $1.50 a ride the last time I rode it.
B103#4947
It still is $1.50 w/free transfer to subways ala NYCT buses...
Probably for the same reason why other people take the premium fare buses elsewhere in the city. Faster, cleaner, More convient.
why are you guys even discussing that utterly stupid post about taking the subway.its a persons own decision to ride an express bus or the subway.
I was talking about why people would take the bus instead of the train. Not just a regular bus. But a premium fare aka express bus.
I was comming to and from 57 St and 3 Ave and the BM2 stops close by where I came from
I understand that, but didn't you originate in Queens? Your itinerary stated that you started out on the E train. I was just curious to know why you would originally be in the subway system (the E Train), and exit the subway to take a premium fare express bus to get off at another subway station (Flatbush/Nostrand)?
Read the thread again. "Q46 Nova RTS #9288" never said he had taken an E train on that day. He said he and his mother had started out at Flatbush & Nostrand Avenues, intent on taking a BM2 bus to midtown, and had noticed there were no signs at that location for the BM2 or B103.
David
I'm talking about the original post in a different thread:
"MTA Bus Roadeo today!
Posted by Q46 Nova RTS#9288 on Sat Jun 1 20:29:43 2002
Today I was at the MTA Bus Roadeo. It was great! There was even a Roadeo Shuttle running today from Ave U to the Roadeo. New Flyer D60 #5508 from Gun Hill Depot did the roadeo shuttle. Here's what buses and trains I rode today.
R32 #34xx E Line
BM2 Orion5 CNG #4958
Q35 TMC RTS #1171
Roadeo Shuttle New Flyer D60 HF#5508(2 Times)
B41 TMC RTS #8313(Repowered)
BM2 Orion5 CNG #4954
QM4 Orion5 CNG #531
Q60 Orion5 #5508.
If anybody in here saw me. I was wearing a Green T-Shirt with a pocket with a Green Puma hat and blue jean shorts. I was wearing Sunglasses but at the most part I was not wearing them at the roadeo. I was at the Roadeo around 3:30-4 PM."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not start out at Flatbush and Nostrand. I started at Union Turnpike Subway Station in Queens and went to 57 St and 3 Ave to look at the wiz and I also never rode Command before
Yes. I had to go to 57 St and 3 Ave to look at a store and I did not want to take the 2 Train b/c it's going local and slow. At least I got a more of a direct connection with the Q35 since I saw #1171 just about a Minute or 2 after I got off and it came in about 4-5 Minutes and that Subway Station is too busy. I don't tend th use Subways in Brooklyn that much. I just want to take anyway I want to. I pick my own ways,If I want to take the BM2, I ride the BM2. I have no problem with it.
No problem! Like I said, I was just curious due to the "unconventional" routing that you informed us about.
It seems signage for the private DOT routes is extremely poor. Signs rarely point out what routes stop there, if there's even a sign there.
whats funny is right across the street on the south bound side there are droppoff only signs for the bm2 and the b103 at flatbush and nostrand.
Thats funny because in that area along Avenue H, there are bus stops with correct signage for the BM2 and B103(which BTW, is an interesting route.)
B103#4961
First of all, welcome back BusTalk! I had no idea the site was back until a few days ago, so sorry for the belated greeting...
SEPTA will be holding it's annual Bus Roadeo on Saturday, June 8 at the Veteran's Stadium Parking Lot (this is on the 10 St side; enter from Pattison Av at the east side of the stadium) beginning at 8:00am. For those who haven't been to Vet Stadium for the SEPTA Roadeo, take the Broad Street Subway to Pattison station (end of the line), then walk along Pattison to the parking lot entrance.
This will probably be the last year that SEPTA holds it's Roadeo at the Sports Complex due to construction of the new Lincoln Financial Field (Eagles stadium) and TBD Stadium (Phillies new stadium; hasn't been named yet, hence the "TBD"). Next year's Roadeo will most likely be held at the Navy Yard complex.
Aside from SEPTA's usual display of active and historic buses, DART First State (Delaware), NJ Transit, Greyhound, the School District of Philadelphia and others are expected to have their finest buses on display. DART First State is expected to recieve about 39 new buses from NABI - 19 standard floor and 20 low floor, so I wouldn't be shocked if they show up at the SEPTA Roadeo.
[On a side note, my SEPTA website has moved to http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/septapix; the old site (http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/septabus) will be closed for a few weeks as I convert that to a pictures only web site. There are still a few pages that I have to transfer from the old site to the new site, but I expect to have that done in a few weeks. My non-SEPTA web site - http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/nebuses; The Northeast Bus and Rail Gallery is still open, and features rosters from across the United States. Within the next couple of weeks, I will have the roster from the old-look era of NYC Transit.]
Saturday I rode for about 45 minutes on an Orion VI, and observed a driving technique that I did not understand. About every 30 seconds the B/O would lift his foot from the accelerator so the bus would coast and then immediately press down on the accelerator again (for those old enough to remember, like the movement when shifting gears on a stick shift). This caused the bus to have a jerky motion each time it coasted and accelerated which was extremely unpleasant. The B/O was wearing a 10 year longevity pin, so he was not new on the job. I looked around to see if any traffic was causing the B/O to prepare to brake, but the traffic around us was moving normally, and at one point there were no cars within 50 yards and no cross streets, but still this continued. On Sunday I rode the same line with another B/O who drove normally, so I don't think it had anything to do with the route itself.
Does anyone have a rational reason why he was driving like that?
Tom
as one that has driven these buses i can tell you that sometimes the transmission jerks the bus all around even without releasing the gas peddle. sometimes shutting the retarder off solves some of the problem.
>>> sometimes the transmission jerks the bus all around even without releasing the gas peddle <<<
I was in a position to watch the B/O's foot action on the accelerator. He was rocking back on his heel to lift off the accelerator. It was not the transmission alone which was causing the problem. From the sound of the engine there was no problem with which gear the bus was in either.
Tom
Orions have a tendency to do that when you let them coast. Perhaps the driver just found it easier to drive that way.
Perhaps he was running hot and didn't want to get ahead of schedule.
Well, I have found that when I see B/Os driving the Orion VI hybrids, they tend to do that while shifting gears...it's kinda different, almost, correct me if I am wrong, when driving a hybrid-electric bus...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
The Orion V CNG's do this too. They jerk abit when the retarder is on. Especially the Cummins ones.
I finally got a chance to ride one of the new Neoplan AN460 articulateds on the 60 line from New Rochelle to the Bronx. The most impressive aspect of the bus was the smooth and very quick acceleration provided by the DD-60 engine. The ride was about comparable to that of a new Flyer artic. Does anyone know if these buses are equipped with engine brakes? It seemed that everytime the driver applied the brakes the engine emitted a sound similar to that emitted by commercial vehicles that have engine brakes.
The M20's route has been restored to pre 9/11. However, there are
still signs erected indicating stops at Chambers/Hudson and Harrison/
Hudson. How do we get those signs removed?
beats me,let the TA take care of it,afterall they're the one's that put them up as well as every other bus signs in the entire city.im glad my M20 is back to normal,even though the slight change was a-ok
NYCDOT would have to take care of it. NYC Transit has no jurisdiction over signage on the streets (even bus stop signage).
David
Also, the part of the S/B M20 route between Chambers/W Bway and West/South End is still the post-9/11 route since the pre-9/11 route took the bus down W Bway until Barclay and Vesey Sts, which are still closed to traffic AFAIK...all else ia back to pre-9/11 routing...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Whats up
New member ,ex Bo from ENY
Drove The B8
As I was waiting for the B2 this past Sat., two B2's went by going the other way to Kings plaza (one right behind the other). Judging by the fact that ey only run every 20 minutes on that route at that hour, tht those were the only buses on the route.
Lo and behold, 20 minutes later (and 20 minutes late!) came a B2 with one right behind it again (heading for E 16th St.)! Shouldn't there be a supervisor to space these buses out? What happended?
There's very little Dispatcher coverage on weekends. There is a Dispatcher post at Kings Plaza, but that person is probably too busy dealing with the B41, B46, and possibly B3 to worry about the B2, B9, and B78 routes (not to mention that they don't even all stop in the same place at Kings Plaza). A small, lightly patronized route like the B2 isn't likely to merit much attention unless Road Control is responding to a complaint. Perhaps this complaint should be directed to the Department of Buses (1-888-NYCT-BUS).
David
I know the dispatcher watches the B41, B46 & B9 on the weekends, but I don't believe he watches the B2. Kings Plaza is still one post I have never worked yet. The B2 has very little problems that warrants a busy dispatcher to have to watch it also. The problem you described sounds like something that happens very rarely on the B2. Unless the problem you described happens frequently, sending a complaint that the buses were running irregular (one Saturday) will get you absolutely nowhere.
BIG AL
Must have been catching, whatever it was that was striking our city's drivers.
Try the outermost reaches of the Bronx, like the Bx16! Want "lack" of supervision?
This route has three terminals, the main one being 206th Street/ Norwood. The line splits, as it has been doing, for about 20 years, ever since the old Bx 14 was eliminated. The "normal" route runs via Nereid Ave to Seton Ave/ Mundy lane; the "new" part diverts at Baychester Ave and runs to 233 St and follows that to Dyre, then Boston Rd to Ropes ave. These buses alternate during the weekdays, but after 7pm amd all day Saturday and Sunday there is one consolidated route that actually uses the "old" Mundy Lane/Seton ave route and then continues down Pittman Ave to Baychester. It then proceeds as mentioned before, to Ropes.
Some drivers "forget" what time and /or what day it is and completely by-pass the Pittman ave/ Mundy Lane leg and go directly to Seton and
Baychester. That entire jug handle is left without service.
When I questioned my driver as to why his leader did that, he replied "I wasn't here; I just got on."
joe c
Saw NYCT GMC #3902 & #3952 on Bx7 both of them still have Queensville Depot logo also saw NYCT NovaBus #5093 with Flatbush Depot logo & NYCT Orion #204 getting new fresh paint. Problem at Kingsbridge Depot that they ran out of RTS & Artics buses due to Mechanical Trouble. Yard Dispatcher send out some of RTS Buses on Bx1/2, Bx9, Bx41 line.
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
3962 is the other bus that you saw. 3952 has been scrap for well over 2 years now.
#3962 BX1
#3902 BX7
In my own eyes it really #3952 not #3962. Any way im going to check it out tomorrow at Kingsbridge Depot at 0700am
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Hey David
Take a look at the spare and scrap yards behind the depot. U might see some old Rts.
3909 is at KB too. Saw it in Riverdale today.
Kevin
Wasn't that the Bus that they tried to resuurect back to life at Jamaica along with 3030 and 3033? And it failed miserably? Now's it at KB? Why in the blue hell is KB getting 3900s? Heck take 2270 and 2660 from Yukon. They don't need them anymore.
I see on the roster that 3809 is at MHV. Thought she was long gone too?
#3902 Q46-PLEASE COME BACK HOME TO QV WHERE YOU BELONG!!!
You have a good memory. Those were the buses they tried to bring back to Jamaica depot last year - 3030, 3033 & 3909. 3909 was a soft seater also unless they converted it back to a hard seater. My question is this. If QV is sending their junk over to Kingsbridge, then what is QV getting in return?
BIG AL
P.S. Seems strange writing that a depot from S.E. Queens is sending junk someplace else. It's usually the other way around!
3909 is a soft seater from yukon where it spent time working express service in 1998 then went to storage. nyct keeps it as a spare. 2270 and 2660 should be in the scrapyard as they were scheduled to go there on 6/1/02.
515-521?! have went from CS-QV. 513-514 may be there as well b/c I haven't seen them in CS or on any of their routes.
#514 Q27
#516 Q46
Ive noticed that 4607 have been in the same spot outside Kingsbridge depot for about a month now. Send it back to Bklyn!!!!!!!!!!
I saw this bus opearting at 2PM on the QM 12 express.
Thank You
That bus is still running the QM12? Damn it! I going to write a letter to Triboro Soon
Also while you're at it, ask why the 3000s are operating on the locals while something like 736 does QM12 service? 3043 3026 and 3041 were all on the Q19B today. 3066 is a Q18 regular.
Q53-is an exception.
Are the 600s 700s 2000s 2100s 2800s in that bad of condition?
#737 Q18
#3049 Q53
its been a long time since ive taken any of those shuttle buses that take you from Howard Beach Station to JFK.but the last time i saw them they look similar to the hybrid electric buses that come out of Manhattanville Depot,so could it be possible once the Airtrain begins operation to replace them,that those buses can be added to the MTA bus fleet? at least they have back windows.
The JFK subway/long-term parking shuttle buses are low-floor New Flyers, not Orion VI's. I suspect the Port Authority will find elsewhere to deploy them once Air Train is running, including a probable long-term parking lot shuttle to the Air Train station.
Correct. The JFK, LGA and some NWR shuttle buses are, in fact, New Flyer D40HF's. Once the AirTrain is up and running the Long Term Parking Shuttle would continue to serve the lot from the LTP AirTrain Station, where a large bus canopy has been constructed.
Mark
Mark,
Thanks for the info about the bus canopy. I assume you meant New Flyer D40LF's. Newark seems to have very few New Flyer low-floor buses. Most of the buses in service on the long-term lot routes are Orion V's. I believe these were from the same order as Green Bus Lines' 5500's. I'm still not 100% clear whether these were originally headed to Washington, DC, or New Orleans, LA.
Green Bus Lines Orions were originally an order by the Metro of Washington D.C but they cancelled it and it looks like Green Lines bought em.Just like the MTA bought the electric hybrids 6350-6359 when NJTransit canceled the order for those buses.
Get ready for this...
I saw 025605 on the 1 this morning.
Yes, one of the new 35 foot Orion Vs was on the 11, arrived at Friendship Heights, and then went back to Silver Spring on the 1. I got pictures at it was leaving, the lights were not cooperating with me so I couldn't get it earlier.
Spotted on Merrick Blvd today undergoing a test run was brand spanking new MCI 2852. In the depot being used for wheelchair training was 2851, and parked against the back fence is 2850. Looks like JAM is getting 2850-2878 (or 2879), with QV and CS to follow.
Incidentally, 1986 RTS's 4563, 4573 and 4583 are being prepped for scrap, with more to follow as the MCI's come in.
Mark
Isn't it a coincidence that JAM scraps 45x3s from their depot?
Had 4587 on the Q17 yesterday. She was a slow-moving bus that needs to go to the scrap yard.
#4560 Q17
Wow BIG AL, that's some serious stuff. So, I guess this means that we better start getting use to seeing the 9200's (9250-9269, 9278, 9281, 9285 and 9291) on routes more often?
So when those buses would be in service?
When most if not every operator in the depot has been FULLY trained on them.
BIG AL
jamaicas MCIs are in service. ONE for training, other runs X63 and X64. i saw one deadheading on the Q84 once
I saw one going down Queens Blvd near 71 Ave at around 5:48 PM today. I think I saw some people on it. Did not get the #
What happened to these buses. They haven't been in service for a few months. I was on the B64 and I saw 4756 sitting in the ulmer parking lot next to these weekend parking MCI's. Anybody have information about this?
Who Knows? I just hope Fresh Pond doesn't take them!
-
If you're a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
Scrap perhaps?
#1979 x2
add #4762 to this list. Ive seen them sitting there at least 3-4 weeks. A driver i know on the b64 said the parts from these buses are taken off to be used to other buses AND the 8500's ARE comning to UP from JG this summer? any rumor on this?
I was just informed that Artic # 5508 is now at the CS depot. Question is QVs 4901 still there?
Just had 5508 from the Bus Roadeo on Saturday. Was she there on Sunday as well?
My only theory of why 5508's there now is the same reason why 4901 is there-to train the drivers on them.
Remember MCI 2774 from UP was there at CS a few weeks ago.
Well since 2850-2852 are at JAM now, QV and CS will soon be getting the MCI for their Express Lines, leaving the Orion and Nova Suburbans to the locals.
#5508 Q27
#611 Q46
#119 Q32
Wait, you saw bus #5508 on the Q27 or the head sign said, "Q27"? NO artic will survive on the Q27.....TRUST ME!
i cant see a Q27 going down holly avenue or 216 street
I did not see 5508 on the Q27. I just used it as a sign off post. A few days ago I used #516 Q18 b/c I want those lines to be taken over by the MTA. 516 does not exist at Trudgeboro.
5508 is being used as a test to see if their lines can handle artics and to train the drivers there on them.
#1979 x1
I'm a bit of a newbie on bus identification, so what is the difference between the Orions and the Novas? And the square-shaped buses in the 400-500 range Queens Surface has? Are they Orions too or what?
the flyer 5508 as been the around the city bus it been in the bronx, in manhatten on the m15 route where will it be next??
It's been everywhere but in SI.
#5508 ???
400s and 500s at QSC are Orion 5 CNG'S. 396-499 are locals while 500-581 are suburbans.
Novas are bubble shaped RTS. Orions are a shoebox style.
#437 Q66
#504 QM1
#4901 Q46
Thanks. One more question, if you don't mind? Whatever happened to the oldest RTS buses that Queens Surface had? The ones that still had the rollsign displays? Were they scrapped?
Actually, I had mentioned this a while ago, about half of those GMC RTS-04 buses are in a scrap yard in Riverhead (Just seconds east of Tangers Shopping Mall...Tanger III to be exact). I'm not sure of the numbers but there are quite a bunch in their. The other half or bunch is in New Jersey as part of the Lafayette & Greenville IBOA. In particular, ex-QSC buses #245, #247, #254-258, #270, #272 and #274. Also in that yard are some GMC "New Look" Rebuilt buses (ex. buses #5205, #5244, #5401-5403, #5519, #5375 just to name a few). Those buses were with the MTA LI Bus until like around 1997 when they got more Orion V CNG buses (Buses #246-287). Also in that same yard is a Flxible "New Look" bus #854 from MTA LI Bus. These buses do not look like scrap. I could be wrong but everytime I see them, they look in decent condition. I will try to get some pics of those buses but that yard looks like it is sealed tight....if you know what I mean.
Thanks a lot; you have made my day with this. I always wondered what happened to those old things. Now I know. I wish I can ride those buses once more; I'm so nostalgic!
Please read Q5Merrick's post stating 4901 is now back home at QV.
BIG AL
The only bus routes that I can see having an artic bus on it is the following:
Q12, Q13, Q16 (via Francis Lewis Blvd - MAYBE!) Q44 and Q76.
"The only bus routes that I can see having an artic bus on it is the following:
Q12, Q13, Q16 (via Francis Lewis Blvd - MAYBE!) Q44 and Q76."
The Q12 has very tight turns in both directions: Flushing-bound, left from Bowne onto Roosevelt; Little Neck-bound, right from Roosevelt onto Bowne. Double-parkers proliferate, especially on Roosevelt west of Bowne in front of Key Food. Also, there's two tight turns in the eastern turnaround loop: left from Little Neck onto Pembroke; left from Pembroke onto Glenwood.
The Q16 has a very sharp left turn Totten-bound from 29th onto Lewis.
The Bronx-bound Q44 has an EXTREMELY tight right turn immediately after the drawbridge down the ramp to the Cross Bronx service road at Zerega. Regular Orions have trouble with it. Queens-bound, there's a hairpin left from Bronx River Avenue onto the eastbound service road. It's under the expressway itself.
The 4, 5, 17, 30, 43 and 85 might be good candidates because they're all extremely crowded, and for the most part use wide streets. Tight turnarounds at Archer and Linden-235th could be problematical, and construction on the westbound L.I.E. service road through Little Neck and Douglaston would have to be completed before Artics could run on the 30. There's two tight lefts now hindered by lane closures- one from the service road onto Douglaston Parkway; the other from East Hampton Boulevard onto the service road.
Q17? Okay, time out. First, BIG AL stated that Jamaica can not handle artics. So, the Q4, Q5, Q17 and Q85 are out. Q30, I can see that but that means that the bus on Archer Av and Supthin Blvd will have to be extended. Q43, the same thing especially behind the Q30 artic! The best artic route would be the Q43, Q46 and Q76 since you did not say anything about that.
I talked to a Jamaica Depot Bus Operator on the Q17 today, and he says Jamaica IS getting some artics.
Well, yesterday, on Friday, I didn't see artics, but I did see 2 MCI's , one displaying the Q17 route, which passed us and another with no route info on it. Let me guess, are they those cross-country type buses, because that's what I saw.
Once again, Jamaica IS NOT getting any Artics. The operator you spoke too unfortunately does not know the difference between an Artic and an MCI as he obviously has them confused.
The main reason why Jamaica will never see Artics is because the building is too small. An artic will never fit into the work bays which are designed ONLY for a 40 ft bus. The way that building is designed, it CAN NOT be modified. Trust me. Another problem: The inside of the building is so small, shifting them back and forth would also be next to impossible. Shifting around the RTS's can be a real chore alot of times. And I might point out, Jamaica depot constantly has the most in-house accidents out of any depot in the city. That is a fact. Adding Artics would compound that situation. Another problem: the outside yard itself would be too small to accomedate enough Artics to serve any real purpose. Artics will only come to Jamaica when a brand new depot is built on more land.
BIG AL
Hmm, oh well. What do you think would be a good location for a new depot?
The original plan was off Rockaway Blvd in the area defined by JFK airport, however that plan has stalled.
[I talked to a Jamaica Depot Bus Operator on the Q17 today, and he says Jamaica IS getting some artics.]
Decisions about which buses go where are made by senior Department of Buses management, not by individual drivers.
While it's true that artics drive a good deal differently that standard buses, you neglect that they are actually easier to turn than standard buses. With New Flyer and Neoplan artics, the split is at about 30/30, so it is essentially like driving a 30-foot bus when it comes to turns.
Of course, there are various other factors that need to be considered when evaluating a route for articability, but tight turns is not necessarily one of them.
No matter how good an can Artic can turn, it can never make it through a Ridgewood street.
-
Q58- RTS #9576
B57- RTS #9569
Q55- RTS #9146
There's an artic at Stengal??? The world must be ending!!!!
I sure hope the Q44 gets some. It NEEDS 'em!
my dad just told me a MCI just arrived at the depot as he was pulling in this morning. Training begins today and its 60 whole minutes for taller longer and supposedly faster buses
As per Tom Charles, Queens Village AGM, only those operators who work express lines and/or the extra list will receive MCI training. Unless that's changed too.
Personally, I feel we all should be trained. Any operator can work an RDO/CDW/COA and wind-up with an express run. Additionally, the 3 runs on the X-32 PM trippers can also be worked by any of the 420+ operators at the Village.
So these MCI buses will be on the X32? As a school bus?
What # is the MCI is it Ulmer Park 2774? Or is this a brand new MCI?
I would venture to say that the MCI's will remain an X68 exclusive only. Though every operator should eventually be trained (similar to the situation when the Orion's first arrived), I can see a situation where if someone is doing a fill in, they'll wind up with a suburban seat Nova RTS or Orion. Also, I would venture to say that the X32 would not see any of the MCI's, but rather again, the suburban seat RTS or Orion 5.
Just out of curiosity, what are the ridership numbers on the X32 runs?
Thanks,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
doesn't the x32 use the bronx river parkway both ways?? it probably could not handle an 11 foot + high MCI anyway
I see about two or three Pm X32 s every weekday running back to back with science students on em . Trust me ,they dont even fill 3/4 of one coach up. I just dont understand why these kids get the coaches .They can take the train like everyone else
When the private lines receive new buses from the NYC DOT who determines what numbers the buses receive
Thank You
The operator.
As I leaving work yesterday @ approx 5:55PM, saw MTA NYCT D4501 #2839 signed as an X11 loading infront of my office build, and boy are they beauties. On takeoff she sounded nice, better than the previous ones. What kinds of engines and transmissions do these buses have?
Thanks for any info,
Tony
D4501 2839 - X11
ddc 60 400hp
allision-500r6
Curiousity wins anyway as I will be taking the NJT 70 route from Newark to Short Hills Mall sometime this week. It is a long ride, according to the schedule over 60 minutes.
Even if the mall aint for me the ride should be of some enjoyment.
What is the 70 route like? I imagine it makes fairly frequent stops. What are the neighborhoods along the way like?
And suprisingly this very upscale mall lists the 70 route from Newark as a way to get there from Manhattan on their web site.
Well this bus does go through some pretty rough areas - the south ward of Newark and through Irvington are not areas you want to take a leisurely stroll through. After Irvington, the areas get better - Maplewood, Millburn, Summit, et al are all nice quaint towns.
Or I could take the NJT train to Summit and just a short bus ride on the 70 to the mall. Of course this option costs a few bucks more.
I'd rather not have to travel through some really nasty areas if possible, it's kinda depressing.
Why doesn't NJT have direct service from NY to Short Hills via bus, like with Garden State Plaza and Willowbrook mall?
Train service to Summit is also pitful, our Oyster Bay train here in Sea Cliff runs more often in off peak direction. The only train I can get back to NYC is around 2:30pm, that is the ONLY train to NYC in the 3-6pm timeframe!
It would definately be easier to drive there. But I don't have a car so that won't work!
"Why doesn't NJT have direct service from NY to Short Hills via bus, like with Garden State Plaza and Willowbrook mall?"
Probably because "The Mall At Short Hills" wants to limit the amount of who they consider "undesireables" reaching their mall. Even though mass transit brings more potential customers to these places, mall managemnt thinks that their "upscale clientle" is offended by the existence of bus or train riders. I don't agree with this thinking, but that's they way they think.
Regarding the schedule from Summit to New York: which schedule are you looking at? On weekdays:
Train #6648 lv Summit 2:34pm--arr NY Penn 3:25pm
Train #6650 lv Summit 3:34pm--arr NY Penn 4:25pm
Train #6654 lv Summit 4:07pm--arr NY Penn 4:54pm
Train #6658 lv Summit 4:37pm--arr NY penn 5:24pm
Train #6662 lv Summit 5:34pm--arr NY Penn 6:24pm
and on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, trains leave Summit every hour at :55 past the hour.
Well the NJT schedule guide did not say that. Man that must be a major software error, I apologize for the mistake.
I think the reason there is no express bus service between Short Hills Mall and NYC is that there is frequent NJT rail service. The reason for the Willowbrook expresses is not for shoppers, but because the mall provides a huge parking lot for city bound commuters.
There's really no reason for someone from NYC to take a bus to Short Hills mall to shop, as nearly every store there also has a Manhattan location.
CG
The NJ Transit Short Hills rail station is located nowhere near the mall.
Also, by pointing out that the Willowbrook expresses are mostly for COMMUTERS and not shoppers, that only backs up my point regarding mall management's disdain toward transit riders. On Long Island, for example, several buses used to stop near the DOOR of the Mid-Island Plaza (now known as the Broadway Mall) in Hicksville. Several years ago, they moved the bus stops completely away from the mall, almost as far down as the train station. The only line that comes close is the N20, and only because it happens to travel up and down Broadway. All the other lines that used to go to the mall's door, and there were at least 5 or 6 of them if memory serves, now stop several blocks away, not a good thing if you're carrying many bags and stuff.
I don't disagree that most suburban mall managements are not targeting bus riders -- anyone can see that the bus stops are being moved farther and farther away from the actual malls. They're viewed as a necessary evil, more for the transportation of employees than for customers. As a result they get treatment not unlike the employee parking lots at airports or those on the expressway 3 miles outside Atlantic City. I suspect that you and I both agree that this is a mistake.
The point I was trying to make is that there is very little passenger demand for express service to a suburban mall from Port Authority. At Willowbrook, the demand exists for suburbanites to get express bus service into the city to their jobs because of the extremely limited train service on the nearby Boonton line. The attraction of using Willowbrook is not that it is a mall, but that it has a huge parking lot which is almost never full -- just like the Meadowlands.
Well after my visit to Short Hills I can see why it is not popular for bus riders from PABT. It is very, very, very upscale. I was one of only a few people who used the bus stop. Most 70 riders are traveling to Livingston, or between Newark and Irvington. Few riders use Short Hills. Even Walt Whitman mall on LI has a busier bus stop.
Short Hills is a narrow marketed mall, toward very upscale types who live in the area.
Willowbrook and Garden State Plaza have lots more to offer for shoppers, offering a mix of high and middle end stores, not to mention somewhere that you can eat.
[The attraction of using Willowbrook is not that it is a mall, but that it has a huge parking lot which is almost never full -- just like the Meadowlands.]
I haven't followed it as closely as I would have liked, but the "lot full" situation has changed at Willowbrook this year. Before Bloomingdale's opened, it became more and more difficult to find a legitimate commuter parking space after the morning rush. Then Bloomingdale's forced the mall owner to cut back on some of the spaces made available to commuters. I believe NJTransit had to open a parking lot up on the other side of I-80, a short way north on Route 23. I'm not sure what buses serve this new lot. But parking at Willowbrook is certainly not as easy as it used to be.
As an aside, parking at the North Bergen lot for the 320 to PABT has also gotten very hard post-9/11. Often, shortly after the morning rush, the lot is closed until cars actually leave the lot. Vince Lombardi (321) seems to be the one lot that never gets full.
I'll bet the Vince Lombardi situation changes when (should I say if?) HBLRT reaches it.
And Broadway mall isn't even that upscale. It's kinda downscale, so not having a bus stop in the mall is like shooting themselves in the foot.
what a coincidence that i plan on doing the same thing but with an extra stop at Livingston Mall after ive been through Short Hills.from Livingston i plan to take the 73 back to Newark and then take the 108 to NY.I just dont like taking the same route back and forth unless there's no other way.call me crazy but thats how i like it.
If i am railfanning or busfanning, I do the same. Why double back if you can see more?! Then again, if I actually have somewhere to go, it is a different story.
The subway terminals, particularly in the Bronx, are close enough to do this, and gives you an idea of how end-of-the line neighborhoods develop. It's a short walk from the 1 to the 4 and the 2 to the 5. From the M to 69th on the 7 proved interesting; I'm doing Lefferts on the A to 121st on the J next (guess this should be on SubTalk)!
Another option would be to take Coach USA/Community Coach service to Morristown (it's been a while since I've been up that way, but I think it's the 77 line), then take Morris County Route 3 from Downtown Morristown (Headquarters Square) to Short Hills Mall.
I was wondering where I can find some info and images on these new buses running on this express route from Midtown - Queens. I had never seen them before and I did a double-take when I first saw it.
Thanks!
34th Street between 3rd Avenue and 6th avenue or 6th Avenue between 34th street to 57th street during am or pm rush hours. best shots for pictures there.
Those are the New Flyer D45 demonstrators that were originally supposed to be used for SI to Manhattan routes.
-Hank
There are people here who have pics of the Vikings on the x51, including The TOR-Nado and myself, Cleanairbus...not a very bad line at all...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Vikings Rule!
Technically, I don't think that these three buses were demonstrators. The story I heard was that they were actually purchased by NYC Transit from day one. Demonstrators are traditionally lent to the operator by the manufacturer.
I know the Trevor might know this batter then anyone, but I will still post it here.
Today while I was driving on Route 9 though Howell and Freehold I saw four new 45ft MCI, and one new 30ft RTS. I saw the MCI once before one Route 9 while I was looking for a house out here, but have not see them since I move hear 4/1/02. I live one block away from Route 9 witch is NJT route 139. All they every run are old MCI's, Newer MCI's Desel and MCI CNG's. I never saw a 30ft RTS on the line that runs local to the Freehold Mall, it usely run 40ft RTS's, I think the eather the 833 or 836.
Dose anyone know if the Depot in Howell are getting them or did they have and I just naver saw them before.
Robert
The 30-ft RTS that you saw was probably operated by Connex Transit (formerly TCT Transit Services), which is contracted to operate the 830-series routes in Monmouth County.
Howell just started getting the D4501's last month. A friend just reported that the first 10 buses at Howell are numbered 7442, 53-57, 59-61, 64.
Those 7453 was one of the buses I saw. As for the 30 RTS it is a cute looking bus, I must be easy to drive. I reminds me as a Limo in starose(Sorry Very bad speller). One thing it was in NJT collors, as well as the 40ft that I saw on the route.
Robert
Yes they started to recieve some MCi d4501's numbered 7453-7467 that is what I have seen so far on the 139 line.
Tony
NJT Bus Operator
Is this suppose to go from 7400-7499 and into the 7500's series?
No actually 7401-7418 are 40 footers. I should know we have them at the meadowlands. 7420 starts the 45 footers, then the 7501 goes back to 40 footers, they really messed up in numbering them, I think Coach Usa is getting buses numbered in the 8500 or 8600 series, 45 footers. It is real stupid how they numbered these buses. Who knows!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
I dare anyone to try to figure out the numbering methodology for the new New Jersey Cruisers. There are buses in the high 8900's at Oradell. Who knows why the lower 7400's are 40-footers? Is 8202 still around as a 45-footer? I think I've seen some higher 8200's around and these are 40-footers.
Can you give me a brief roster of what buses NJT has so far? Just the MCI D4000, D4500 and D4501 versions please? Thanks for your time and effort in advance.
So I guess that the older MCI's are going to bus heaven.
Robert
Ulmer Park is running low on locals since those Nova 92xx & 93xx Can't be used on the B1, B6, B64 they three heavieest local line they only have 34 Nova locals # 9077-9110 they had #9075-9076 but ENY took them in 1998 Why i don't know Plus those # 47xx & 48xx are giving Out on Us and the #75xx are just Carp ENY should have keep those we should get the 1993 RTS # 84xx & 85xx From JG and 1998 #95xx & #96xx from Hudson i think so
UP all the way
9343 - Run: #074 - B6 <-Coming Soon
Best UP may get for their local lines are the few 8400s that at JG along with the 8500s. But that will NOT occur until the Orion 7 start arriving. (7560-7619)
However, wasn't there a rumor that UP would be a strictly Express Bus Depot?
#2779 x27
i would not bet on it the B1, B3, B6, B64, B74 can't fit in JG and Fresh pond is to far so is ENY and can't fit in FB we should get are 1999 RTS back #5075-5099 and are 1990 RTS #8340-8350 and i heartd from my B/O from UP that UP MCI are done But not Coming in to about 2-5 Moths. after QV, JAM, CS get they MCI CAS, UP will get they at the same tims CAS has about 3-5 new MCI
the highest #9300 express ive seen on the local routes is #9342 on the B1-im waiting till the 8500's come over from JG to UP. They are supposed to replace #4753-#4792 and MAYBE #4854-#4872. Is there any rumor on Ulmer Park getting the 8500's or like our counterpart in FP, we have to suffer as well?
Wait, let's try to be reasonable.....the buses #8518-8566 and the remaining 8400's are going to Manhattan and Brooklyn. The 8400's could be split between 126th St and Flatbush while #8518-8566 could go to Hudson to finish that series (#8489-8517). Anything can happen but I do not think that UP will see those buses. IF they do, then expect Freh Pond to get some of that deal too!
ulmer park should get some new buses it need them. Since the flyer model are coming to 126 st why not take the 5000 series from there and put them in ulmer park.
They may stay in Manhattan or go into Brooklyn but Ulmer Park, who knows? It's too early to call!
It seems that the Department of Buses is having major storage problems within the Brooklyn Division.
East New York is so crowded that they had to park buses on Broadway during the overnight hours but the NYCDOT is making them stop it that the B-8 is going to be transferred to Jackie Gleason and the new B-47(the B-40/B-78 merged route) is going to Flatbush
Both Flatbush and Ulmer Park are also packed and really have no room for additional buses. It appears that the DOB plans to turn Flatbush into an all articulate depot in the future which means the B-2 and B-31 have to be transferred out(most likely to Ulmer Park which has no room) and the B-47 and B-49 will also have to go it they do not become articulated lines. Ulmer Park is jammed with the 3 express lines and really can not handle additional buses.
Maybe Fresh Pond has room but which ENY lines can come out of Fresh Pond. None that i know off.
DOB now has started construction on a new Maspeth CMF/Bus Depot which will not open to 2005 if the TA is lucky. At that time some Gleason lines B-43 and B-61 can move to Maspeth(speculation on my part) and some Fresh Pond routes can go to Maspeth. East New York can then have more room for additional buses once CMF is relocated to Maspeth but which Ulmer Park and Flatbush lines can be moved to East New York.
There is one story i hear that once CMF is relocated to Maspeth the DOB may open a 2nd depot in the current ENY CMF facility.
Any comments
Thank You
Any ideas on the current stauts to replace Jamaica Depot in Queens? Is the Rockaway Blvd site still a viable alternative? Also, I'd heard a rumor of a possible 4th Queens Depot (barring existing structures and/or agencies). Any comments?
Thanks
Where on Rockaway Blvd?
JFK
Here we go with these rumors again. Who said anything about the 8500's being transferred over to Ulmer Park from Gleason? Who said anything about any particular buses being transferred over to anywhere?
I would love to know where you guys get all these stories from.
Or maybe Q5Merrick, Brooklyn67, DHF60 and myself are just 4 idiots who work for transit but never hear anything while the rest of you guys who don't work for transit get all the valuable information.
I don't mean to sound sarcastic however nobody should be stating anything about any buses being transferred anywhere because there have been no firm decisions made on any bus moves yet what-so-ever.
And anybody who works for transit can tell you that any decisions that are made tend to be changed at the last minute so you really can never speculate with this agency. It's always a wait and see basis.
BIG AL
Well BIG AL, I do agree with you BUT is it POSSIBLE that some of these "Non-MTA workers" could get the info from people who work for the MTA? It's obvious they know that things can change but never say never. It's possible you may not hear something and somebody could tell one of us some info. Like OTHER B/O's or MTA workers in the Brooklyn or Manhattan offices. Again, you are right about the rumor thing BUT you can't really say that "Or maybe Q5Merrick, DH60F, Brooklyn67 and myself are just four idiots who work for transit and do not hear anything...." because other people GOT other sources. As for myself...this is my source but everybody has there own sources! So, let's all calm down. The last thing we went is BusTalk going offline again.
I think the people who should calm down are the rumor mongers on this board. The people who work for NYCT have a pretty good idea of the TA mindset. The Dept. of Buses may say one thing one day and say something completely different the next day. You guys should know this by now in regard to bus assignments! You guys sepeculate too much on this board. One poster gives an idea on what he would like to see done, the next guy agrees, the next guy heard a rumor and the next guy calls it a fact! Nobody, not even the guy who decides the assignments knows what will happen next week or next month. They change thier minds daily. I do know this and it was published in the Ridgewood Times a few weeks ago: Larry Reuter wrote a letter to State Asemblywoman Kathy Nolan stating that the 1993's will be coming to Fresh Pond to replace the 1987's. I don't know how 160+ buses be spread over so much territory!
Do you have that article? Can you send me an e-mail address for that article? Yes, I do agree with you. That why I do not say or post nothing unless it is finalized!
As a matter of fact, this should make Da Ridgewood's day. He has been brgging about new buses for the past two years.
Yep, FP and UP combined have more than half the fleet of 87'RTS's. God, I hope these buses will die soon. I felt miserable, when I had to look at so many of them at Palmetto street earlier in the afternoon. Also I seen 2 maintainance vehicles on Palmetto St., they were probably there to fix those damn 4600's/4700's(I don't mind the 4800's). They did it to 4702. If there are going to be fleet changes, then let FP have the 9229-9249 from GH.
-
Q55- RTS #8170
Q55- RTS #8005
R143 L Train #8133-8140
brooklyn up and fp need need buses period. can i get an amen! repainting and old bus doesn't make it ne amen! move some of the buses from manhatten to brooklyn to up and fp
Who said that Ulmer Park was receiving Gleason's 1993 TMC-RTS's when JG receives the Orion VII's? That is not, I repeat...NOT...on the agenda, so guess again, mates. Besides, the B8, along with more RTS's are coming to Gleason from ENY in the fall, so hold off on your predictions, please.
Mark
Thank You Very Much.
BIG AL
What the different bettween the bailos,twinvision ALL-LED,and lumerater horizen sign?
Can u tell me TEV the Roster for NJT Northern, Shouthern and Central Divison of Bus Depot
thank
UP all the Way
8521 - Run: 078 - B6 Limited <- Coming Soon
I have heard that the B8 bus will be going to Jackie Gleason Depot this Fall & that the the B8 will be extended to Rockaway Av also this Fall.
I would like to know if this is true about the B8 bus for this Fall.
Plans can change, but at the moment:
1) true, and
2) true.
David
I hope it doesnt pan out . The B8 is a $$$$ line for the Eny operators with the 10,11,12 hour runs ,the run on/off pay and the luxury of keeping your bus the whole day and getting an extra 30 minutes of swing time by laying up at brookdale .
The Fall Pick (when this is supposed to happen) is a System Pick for Brooklyn Bus Operators. East New York Bus Operators who like the B8 will be able to transfer to Gleason if they desire.
David
yea right with the seniority they won`t be able to touch the big runs in gleason.
I should have said, "they're welcome to TRY..." :-)
David
Can someone explain why this route is going to be run out of Jackie?
Are there any other routes within Brooklyn to be transferred?
Does JG have the capacity to store the numerous buses for the B8? Will the B8 use the CNG's from JG or will it take the RTS's from ENY to Jackie?
Thanks.
East New York Depot is overcrowded. DOT wants the street in front of the depot back, so buses can't be stored there anymore. A fleet of CNG buses is due in before the depot they were ordered for (Coliseum) opens, and Gleason is the only NYCT facility currently capable of fueling them.
The B40 and B78 routes are planned to be combined, and the new route (B47 -- it's been on Bustalk before) is to run out of Flatbush (B78 currently runs out of Flatbush, while B40 currently runs out of East New York).
A bus shuttle for the F train (Avenue X to Stillwell Avenue) is planned to run out of Ulmer Park for 18 months. Since somebody asked in another thread, it's via: Shell Road into W. 8th Street, then Surf Avenue to terminate at Stillwell Avenue. Return is via: Surf Avenue, W. 17th Street, Neptune Avenue, W. 6th Street into Shell Road to Avenue X. There's a turnaround routing that uses 86th Street and W. 6th Street in part.
David
Thank you for the clarifications.
I understand that some CNG's due for Coliseum will go to Jackie, however will these new CNG's be enough of a number to supply the new B8 out of Jackie, or will ENY send over the B8's RTS buses to JG.
When is Coliseum due to open, and will JG get extra CNG's to replace those that will head for Coliseum.
Thanks again.
Bus assignments are up to the Department of Buses. I'm not privy to that information yet.
I believe Coliseum's due to open early in 2003.
David
Yeah, that is, unless there will be something else that will hinder the opening of that ill-fated garage...roof collapses, soil de-watering, or whateveer it was, who knows what will be next on this laundry list of mishaps?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
East New York Depot is alway overcrowded. They park over 50 buses on Broadway & they need to clear it out by 7am in the morning before transit workers can park there car on Broadway.
David
Rockaway Ave?? I thought it was going to go to Mother Gaston Blvd along with the B35...
B8#916
B35#917
The official B35 terminal is at Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues (yes, I know what the signs say). The B8 will go there as well.
David
Gotcha!!!! I remember when all B35 buses used to say Rockaway Ave, then they reverted back to the Brownsville-MG Blvd. Now most buses say Brownsville-MG Blvd while some say Rocakaway Ave. Anyhow, thanx for the tidbit.
Is NYCT looking at anymore new express routes for Staten Island in the forseeable future.
If so, what corridor is being looked at, where will it operate between & will it serve downtown or midtown, Manhattan
It should also attempt to service Borough Park from 36th - 75th Sts. and Sunset Park with either a new express line, or some type of extension to the present ones.
I am certain that this would generate a modest revenue for NYCT.
Do any current NYCT express routes generate revenue at all, modest or otherwise?
A better question would be: do any NYCT express routes cover their operating costs? The X1 "family" of routes in Staten Island and the X27 and X28 routes in Brooklyn carry substantial numbers of riders, but express service under NYCT's labor agreements is extremely expensive to run. In short, the more people you carry, the more money you lose.
David
Really? I thought it was the other way around. The more people you carry, the more money the route makes.
The more people you carry, the more buses are needed to carry them.
Ah, I did not think about that. Good Point!
Well, they've all but eliminated the x21, and the only major missing x-bus link is Bloomingdale Rd south of Woodrow Rd. The x21 was a waste as it was set up. The x21 should have run as it was put on the map, and the x22 should have run all the way down Bloomingdale Rd to Arthur Kill Rd. Most of the x-bus need has been filled. The uptown-downtown routs have all been split. The only thing left to do is increase service on the existing routes.
-Hank
Ok, as a rider of the Q44, wouldn't it be cool, if they for several rides during the rush hours, they did a parkchester to flushing express and vise versa? Like it would make all regular stops, from the Bronx Zoo to the Hugh Grant Circle in Park chester, then go on the Cross Bronx, then onto Van Wyck, Directly to flushing. So the stops after Parkchester the next stop would be Main Street Flushing and then vise versa during the evening rush. It would make the Q44 super attractive, and a speedy way into the bronx. What do you all think?
I've sort of been wondering this, what type of people use the Q44? What are the traffic patterns on that route? Is it mainly used to go to the zoo from Queens or is it used by commuters or shoppers? Same for the QBx1. I have been on the QBx1 once at about 10:30 AM on a weekday and couldn't figure out much from that ride.
I believe commuters use it the most . My wife 4 example uses it for the Long Island Railroad in Jamaica .Its quicker than going through Manhattan to get to Queens . I also work on the Whitestone and i see every Q44 standing room only so i see all the commuters going to Main St to catch the 7 train and L I railroad .The idea of a super express is a good idea since most of the passengers get on between West Farms and Hugh Grant and get off at Main St during the am /school rush and vice versa during the pm , school rush.
People have a hard enough time deciphering from local from limited and now u want to throw a super express local at them? And you cant get to eastbound Northern Blvd from the southbound Whitestone Expwy anyway. It would exit at Linden Place. It has to use the same bridge as the limited.
The positive effect of a service like this would be too minimal for the TA.
I guess i would have to agree . I was thinking like a Bo , u know anything to get the people off my bus faster, and less stops . haha
First, I think that it's a good and bad idea. Let me explain.
It's a good idea because it's express from Parkchester to Flushing and that would be good! I would love to see that.
It's a bad idea because look at it this way:
1)Does Casey Stengel have enough buses?
2)Will the Local and Limited still operate during rush hours?
3)Also, the Q44 does school trips to John Bowne High School. Will that disrupt those students?
4)The Q44 also ends at Supthin Blvd in Jamaica during the morning rush and also it ends in Parkchester during the morning rush as well. Will the Super express local bother that?
5)Also, the Q44 ends at Parsons Blvd in Whitestone. Will the super express local bother that also?
Also, do not call it a "Super Express Local". Just call it a Super Express. I would say that you could have the bus get off the Whitestone Expwy and use the service road to College Point Blvd and then down to Roosevelt Av and vice versa!
I'm really split on this but I do not think that it would work buses you need buses...lots of buses. Besides, the MTA has made up this route called the Q50 that runs from Flushing to the Hugh J. Grant Circle. It's weird because they never use the route but it's on the MTA destination sign list (which I forgot the website address for that list).
Actually the Q50 is suppose to be the QBx1 if the TA takes over the Queens private lines.
At best, it's a pipe dream.
It would make easier for people like me (who live in Parkchester) to get to Queens, but keep in mind that a major Catholic High School (Msgr. Scanlon) would be bypassed by the Q44 just at the time they're beginning school/letting their students out. Using the Law of Unintended Consequences, that directs most of the traffic to the Bx5 to Bruckner Blvd. and Castle Hill for the Bx22, or to White Plains and Bruckner for the Bx36/Bx39, routes that are already bursting at the seams during the AM/PM rush. That, in turn, taxes Gun Hill's ability to provide effective service in the 2PM-4PM time frame, just before the PM rush begins.
In another regard, the TA still would not consider the plan, in light of the monumental traffic back up on I-95 that has been commonplace since 9-11 and the GWB's lower level truck restriction.
When the B8 bus is transferred to Jackie Gleason Depot this Fall, will Jackie Gleason lose any routes or will all the routes stay at Jackie Gleason.
If Jackie Gleason lose any routes this Fall, which route(s) will be lost & what Brooklyn Depot(s) will they be transferred to.
Gleason isn't slated to lose any routes in the Fall.
David
im hoping to see the b68 return to Ulmer Park(but yet again-just a rumor, the same rumor that the B31 was going to Ulmer Park)
No reason to keep spreading that rumor. The FACT is, it's not happening.
David
Seen several times westbound on Jamaica Avenue in PM rush today. Suggests it might be in QV now and was operating today as a 1 or 83 deadheading back to the subway - still stengel decals but i dont think thats a big deal - it's not a prerequisite to have a bus with proper 'logo-age' to make service nor is there a spot on the defect card for it, so give QV guys a couple days and they'll be gone........
515 seen again - no decals today
As Stengel receives its MCI's (which should be any day now) look for at least 15 or so of their soft-seat Orions to go to QV to replace some of their aging RTS's.
Orion coach 107 was seen the other day on 222nd Street pulling out from QV depot, so I guess there is your answer.
Mark
Are these Orions repowered because I was told that bus #111 was not. When you mean 15, I'm assuming that buses #101-114 or #115 will be at QV? What about buses #116-119 and #138? Thanks for your info as usual Mark!
I think I recently saw 138 back at Yukon
When I said 15 Orions it was only a "guess-timate". Also, Orion 107 was not repowered.
Mark
But 111 has been repowered. Now the question will be-will these Orion Suburbans be retrofitted into local seaters?
#107 Q46
Can anyone here who works at a bus outfit provide MDBF data on CNG? I am curios as to whether they are better or worse than diesels. Thanks for your help
Well I don't think they are as reliable as diesels, at least that's my experience with riding them. CNG needs more TLC, and is more prone to overheating in hot weather.
Nonetheless, LI Bus plans to be 100% CNG by 2004.
John is correct ... would you believe it ?
At a depot in Queens that I'm familiar with the CNGs get a lot of TLC, so they don't have too much trouble with them on the road.
nycDOT knew going into it that maintenance cost would go up when they bought CNGs, but the air is cleaner. Is it worth it ?
Mr rt__:^)
the b 8 would be better in ulmer park depot
The B-8 was in Ulmer Park from 1950 until it was split with East New York in the late 1990's and later transferred completely to East New York.
The reason it can not go back to Ulmer Park is that there is no room
in Ulmer Park unless you transfer something out of there such as the x27 express route.
However DOB wants all brooklyn express lines in one depot
Thank You
any new on the 1oo street depot opening and which buses will be going there. and this week I saw an flyer model on the m102 bus are they testing the route withe the flyer?
any new on the 1oo street depot
In the United States, a loo is referred to as a bathroom!
As for as I know, the 100th St Bus Depot is slated tio be an ALL articulated bus depot for the M79, M86, M101, M102 and M103 with NEW buses #5510-5649 (I think but this could change so stay tuned).
Don't forget the X90/92 Express will be in new 100th Street Depot. The New 100th Street Depot will be open sometime in October & the Genenal Order Pick for New 100th Street Depoot will be in September.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
David,
If the 100th Street Depot is to become all articulated then why put the MCI's for the x90/92 there. How about moving them to 126th Street and putting the M-66 into Quill. I also will move the M-60 from Manhattanville to 126th Street.
Also i understand that the M-79 is going back to all standard buses
Thank You
126th Street Depot can't handled MCI because of height inside the Depot & i have heard about M79 going back to all standard buses but my father who work at MJQ Depot say M79 going stay Artics for now until maybe next year.
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Thank You David
After all we M79 riders have gone through with those things, they better leave them. I am telling you, people will be quite P/Oed if they have to go through 3 years of the articulated buses only to go back to standard buses.
Why the M79 but not the M86?
okay if the flyer model are all going to 100 st depot. what about quill depot are the flyer leaving there the m23 going to 100 st depot too. m103 is pretty tight in city hall you think two or three flyer with be able to rest down there.
with there be any new buses coming to brooklyn. anything new always goes to flatbush or jackie gleason depot. jackie got new models now it flatbush turn?
Flatbush is suppose to get artics but after Manhattan and the Bronx get theirs first! The B41 is the most likely rote for the artics! This is what I was told.
which one will come to flatbush the long one or the jackie gleason one? the long flyer take a lost of room and I can't see those buses on the b46 or b44 route at all
I was told Flatbush will be getting artics in 2007. This info comes from a reliable source.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
transitalk.org
2007 who said we will be around then. I love to see then on my route
When the new Maspeth Bus Depot is completed in a few years, has anyone heard from the Department of Buses or from Bus Scheduling Dept on what routes RIGHT NOW are planning to run out of the new Maspeth Bus Depot.
Finally, when will construction finally begin on building the new Staten Island Bus "Annex", where will the new "Annex" be built at on Staten Island & when will it open.
Does anybody know when the 2002 NJT Bus Roadeo at Howell will be held?
The NJT Roadeo will take place on June 22. This was just confirmed through an email contact of mine...
and septa is this weekend
Can an NYCT bus destination sign display any route in the MTA system?
The signs are obviously programmed for all 5 boroughs since bus transfers from depot to depot are common, but can they display LI Bus as well? And vice versa.
Boy would it be funny (and welcome) to see a Stengal Orion say N21 GLEN COVE!! LOL!
I believe that the TA buses do not have the LI Bus destinations on them
Thank You
But it could be programmed and chips swapped out.
Isn't there some kind of rule TA buses cannot operate outside of the City line? I guess that means in no uncertain terms LIB cannot borrow from NYCT in case of a shortage.
[I guess that means in no uncertain terms LIB cannot borrow from NYCT in case of a shortage.]
We all know, of course, of many instances in the past when NYCTA buses wound up operating for MSBA instead of heading for the scrap heap. I don't think it's inconceivable that NYCTA can lend buses to LI Bus in case of an emergency on a temporary basis. However, given that city money goes to pay for NYCTA buses, a loan of city buses to Nassau County would probably be in only extremely remote circumstances.
While on some bus sign there's a PCMCIA card that make reprograming easy.Just
hook it up to a computer with software.And just reprogram it.
John you left out the buses that carry more folks above ground in Queens then the TA !
Same device in the bus, just different program, but we all can wish you Merry Christmas, say "Next Bus Please" < G >
Mr rt__:^)
Can QS buses display TA routes?
I notice that QS buses say "garage" instead of "not in service".
There's no logical reason why an NYCT bus would be programmed with another property's destination readings. It appears easy enough to to reprogram any bus with an electronic destination sign with the destination readings for another system.
Here in Syracuse, CNY Centro operates five Orion V CNG single-door suburban buses that were originally purchased by the Rochester transit system. These buses were reprogrammed with Centro's destination readings, of course. When the buses first arrived in Syracuse in 1996, they still carried the full Rochester livery, and I photographed one of the buses arriving downtown with the inbound 'SYRACUSE' destination sign. At 80 miles, that would be one heck of a long transit route if the bus had indeed originated in Rochester!
Jim D.
Had the chance to ride Orion Suburban 124 on the S79 this afternoon.
Few Comments:
1 - A/C malfunctioned - no cold A/C
2 - Interesting to see how the suburban seats are situated with the repowered engine. The 2 wall seats are fully upright. The three middle seats are almost in a reclined position permanently. This give very little leg room, especially if the person in front has the seat reclined.
3 - Seats seemed dusty.
4 - W/C lift box was open (I was tempted to start the lift.)
Also saw 469 on another S79. Since the RTSs are on the way out, I guess CAS's former Orions (451-470) are slowly making their way back to SI.
2 Questions
1 - Why not place those Orions with the others at CAS to complete the numerical set and send back some of the Orions to YUK (6300-6327)?
2 - What buses are replacing these Orions from Amsterdam?
Today was brutal, man that bus must've been uncomfortable. I myself had to ride LIB 612, no A/C. Fortunately just a short ride.
Since the Brooklyn Bus Division has overcrowding problems at it's Brooklyn depots, I think that NYCT should reopen Crosstown Bus Depot as a temporary depot until the opening of the new Maspeth Bus Depot in 2004 or 2005 & move the painting facility at Crosstown to Zeraga Av or East New York Depot.
If Crosstown can reopen as a temporary depot, will any reconstruction or rehabilition have to be done at Crosstown.
Or has anyone heard that Crosstown might reopen, if so, when might this happen & where would the painting facility be moved to.
It's not going to happen...unless someone at the Department of Buses changes his or her mind.
David
Barry,
If you say that construction has started on the Maspeth Depot/CMF II & you have already taken pictures of what construction is like, can you please post up the pictures of the Maspeth Depot/CMF II under construction.
While a recent post from him would indicate that he either is currently visiting New York or did so recently, "Barry" lives in Florida.
As to the Maspeth site, nothing's going on there yet.
David
025604 on the 42
995418 (i think) on the 42
995413 on the 23
I hope to have time this summer to sit down and establish a Ride-On roster or at least where each bus is located.
I saw an artic this morning coming down Lex at 71st. Unfortunately, it was hooked up to a tow truck!
Unfortunately or fortunately?
Some people can't believe me when I say the M101, 102, and 103 will be all articulated some day. They aren't looking forward to it, that is for sure!
well I think it would be better. these buses are always crowed. I think they need a 4 route on 3 and lexington av.
Where would a 4th route go? They have one, in case you forgot. The M98 does run on Lexington and 3rd Avenues. While it is rather lightly used, it can be used by anyone waiting for a limited bus between 125th Street and 34th Street.
Lightly used? It gets pretty crowded in the peak direction during rush hours.
The M98 doesn't run at all middays, nights, or weekends, and when it does run, it doesn't come terribly frequently. But if it happens to show up while you're waiting for a limited, take it. (I assume there are no plans for the M98 to join the articulated bandwagon.)
In comparison to the M101, M102, and M103, it is lightly used. I've only taken it a few times and most seats are taken, but there are very few standees, if any at all.
Were you traveling in the peak direction? Both times I rode the M98 NB in the afternoon rush, not only did I have to stand, I was pretty tightly wedged in.
No, but I've seen peak direction M98s from my 10whatevers.
Probably off the M102...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
I plan to be taking a LIBUS excursion-between Mineola to Woodbury via the N22/N24,N79 and N94 routes on Friday. Hopefully will have a chance to get over to Mitchell Field and see what newest Orion V they have(the highest ive seen is #363-but will post on Sunday of my findings).
Have fun, and may your day be breakdown free!
It should be cooler by Friday, so the sporadic A/C shouldn't be too much of a problem.
I saw bus #389 headed eastbound on I-80 in the Hackensack area about a week back, so that bus may be in service by Friday. If deliveries have been roughly in numerical order (not always the case, of course), there should be a number of buses between 363 and 389 at LI Bus. My guess would be that these will be very similar to the previous order (288-358, or thereabouts)
seen as high as 378 in service on the n6
You won't be able to get into the depot easily unless you know someone, as their security is pritty tight. There is two cabooses & two old LIRR coaches that you can get a photo of. The new Air Museum is right there too.
Mr rt__:^)
Where in Woodbury are you planning to end the trip? There aren't any fast food places on the Woodbury part of the N-79. There are several diners and fast food joints on the Plainview part of the route (the section before Woodbury). Also along the route on Manetto Hill Road is a Fairway Supermarket that advertises some exotic deli items. If Fairway is like a competitor known as Wild by Nature, they might make you a sandwich and have a few tables near the entrance to eat it.
Note: I am not an employee or affiliated in any other way with the two aforementioned supermarkets.
The best area to eat on the Northern half of Nassau County is in Westbury (also part of the N79 route). I love it up there...or Roosevelt Field (N15, N22, N27, N79 to name a few.)
Yeah Roosevelt Field area is pretty cool too.
There also the HUB shuttle that connects everything and runs every 10 minutes or so.
And the Hub Shuttle is just 25 Cents!!
basically the trip looks like this:
N22 to Roosevelt Field
N78/N79 to Hicksville
N94 to Woodbury
if im REALLLY LATE:
N78/N79 to Hicksville
N94 to Woodbury.
Fairway has an indoor cafe to sit. You can purchase heros, pizza, sushi and some buffet type food to name a few.
You're better off taking the N79 to Walt Whitman mall. It's a nice ride, the mall is kinda upscale but there are many more places to eat around. Woodbury is like Short Hills. Avoid it unless you don't have a problem spending $15 or $20 on a meal. :-0
The mall was recently renovated. As part of the project, plans for a food court were dropped...Eateries in the mall are Burger King, Ben's Express (shortened menu of Ben's Kosher Deli) California Pizza Kitchen and Legal Seafood (just outside the Mall and EXPENSIVE). Across the street from the mall is Gourmet Bagels, IHOP and the Ocean Crest Diner. Not great choices if you're on a limited budget.
And don't forget Sbarro's Pizza inside the mall.
Still better than Short Hills IMHO. It's all relative.
I won't be going back to Snob Hills anytime soon.
I rember when this route 1st started back after 9/11. It was ran by a School Bus Complany with buses where School Buses marked with "Battery Park City Shuttle" Stickers. This lasted about for a few months.
Then and currently. Golden Tourch took over the Battery Park City Shuttle. They used 30 Foot 1 Door Blue Birds with the BPC Logo and the "Battery Park City Shuttle" On it as well.
Golden Touch also does the shuttle for JetBlue customers from the Jamaica LIRR to JFK.
these new flyer coming to manhatten this fall? are there the bronx old artic or fresh new one? 100 st getting them? 126 getting any?
will micheal j quill get any?
I'm also hearing the m14 will be going artic is this true will the m14 switch depot or artic coming to hudson depot?
I want to know???
Can a person on a Nassau County bus (LI Bus) transfer to a Suffolk County bus? Paper transfer or Metrocard?
You can transfer by a paper transfer because the Suffolk Transit buses by me do not have the signs saying MetroCard. I do believe you use paper plus an extra fee (like around $.25 or something like that). It has been a while for me but yes you can transfer. The N54 transfers to the S1 and S20 in Amityville (THE HORROR!). N19 and N72 tranfers to the S20, S25, S27, S29 and S40 in Babylon.
So there is a paper transfer to certain Suffolk buses?
And Suffolk County buses do not take Metrocard?
I'm certain that Suffolk Transit does not take MetroCards but they do take paper transfers. On the East end, it's paper transfers!
The N79 transfers to a bunch of Suffolk routes at Walt Whitman Plaza.
Care to work any of your magic for qvdepot.com?
My graphics are horrid... lol
Yes, it is I! I'm the one who redid all of the Graphics for nycsubway.org!
e-mail me at tlogan@transitalk.org OR metrod3700@cs.com and we'll chat!
If you have AOL, you can IM me @ Metro D 3700.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I agree with Trevor on this one....acn some please post the Blitz renumbering system....please? I think we have suffered enough, LOL! Although if this takes time, then I'll continue to wait....I'm anxious but I'll wait.
#$&! The Bull$#!t, I don't have time, I have a project that needs to be finished that requires this information. I'm about to pull a Private Eye-Style investigation to get this info.
Which I hate doing, BUT IT'S SHAKE UP TIME!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
what's a blitz rster?
Blitz is another way of calling the GMC "New Look" Buses
These were the NYCT GMC newlooks that were rebuilt by Blitz and renumbered into the 5000-5500 series. The Urban Transit Club has announced that they will post the roster/renumbering list which has been around 3 months now.
Do you know if the roster will be organized by depot, or will it be a plain list of pairs of numbers?
Actually, what I'd really like to see is full rosters (depot-by-depot) through the 80's and early 90's, when I did most of my bus riding. Anybody up for the challenge?
As many of you know the Blitz rehabs debuted in 1984 in Queens with bus 5304 operating on the Q3A (now Q83). The original assignment was as follows:
5000-5022 (23) to 100th St (former "Bat-wing" 8000's)
5100-5134 (35) to AMS
5135-5159 (25X) to YUK
5200-5249 (50) to QV
5250-5284 (35) to 100th St
5300-5364 (65) to HUD (5300-5304 debuted in QV for about a month)
5365-5404, 5500-5527 (67) to FLA
5528-5576 (49X) to YUK
These assignments did remain this way for about a year or so then were revised as follows for the fall of '85:
5000-5022 (23) remained at 100
5100-5134 (35) to QV from AMS
5135-5159 (25X) remained at YUK
5200-5214 (15) to HUD from QV
5215-5249 (35) to AMS from QV
5250-5270 (21) to ENY from 100 St
5271-5284 (14) to QV from 100 St
5300-5340 (41) remained at HUD
5341-5364 (24) to QV from HUD
5365-5404 (40) remained at FLA
5500-5527 (28) to JG from FLA(actually this move was made in early 1985)
5528-5576 (49X) remained at YUK
They stayed this way until the early 1990's when they were all scattered to the wind after the 1990/91 TMC delivery and the big 1993 accident involving 5567. The last one to operate was 5227/ex-4401.
Mark
Thank you! That's just what I was looking for. (Actually, what I really wanted was a full roster for all buses, not just Blitzen. But that wasn't clear, and this is great.)
This confirms my memory of riding the 5200's on the M104. Were the 5100's the one with the front-facing seats with the little holes in them? I remember riding those for a while, but then they disappeared, and I never saw them again -- apparently because they all went out to Queens.
When they were scattered, I don't think there were many changes in AMS. I guess it was around then that a handful went to 146. You should have seen my jaw drop when I first saw a Blitz on the M2.
You want a full roster of ALL the buses?? I once posted the original assignment of the 1984 through 1986 GMC RTS's. If you want to, I'll do it again, but for now I'll give you the 1993 Orion assignment.
93001-93050 (50X) to YUK
93051-93072 (22X) to CAS
93073-93096, 197-232 (60) to CS
233-316 (83) to KB
Buses 93001-93096 were renumbered 101-196.
Bus 93073 first debuted in FP. From there it literally made the rounds to ENY, GH, KB, YUK, CAS before settling in CS.
Bus 93074 also made a similar debut. I spotted that bus in FP and GH.
1995 Orion Assignment:
400-401 (2) to CS -1994 Model-
402-451 (50) to KB
452-458 (7) to JG
459-504 (46) to CAS
505-580 (76) to CS
581-610 (30-CNG) to JG
611-630 (20) to CAS
1996 Orion Assignment (this is a tough one)
631-680. (50) to CAS
This order replaced the Flxible Metro order.
More later
Mark
Which FP routes did 93073 & 93074 ride on or were they only at the depot for test purposes?
I don't know which FP routes those buses were on, or if they even entered service. They were probably only there for clearance testing, which they failed miserably at. Bus 93073 was absolutely in ENY revenue service on the B25, as I saw it several times in Downtown Brooklyn.
Mark
I also remember that 93077 (and 401) saw brief service at KB.
Wayne
One problem - You are wrong on the 1996 Orions 631-680. They were assigned from delivery to YUKON. The SI Advance had a photo of the bus being prepped on the apron of the depot. And I remember at the time riding them when I went to Sea HS on the S78 - with the other garbage RTSs that were sent here.
Also, these 50 buses were ordered to replace the 50 Flxible Metro Es that were supposed to come but Flxible went bankrupt. Flxible Numbers would have been 1901-1950.
I'm searching through the archive for your earlier post but I can't find it. Do you have a pointer?
What I would like to see -- if anyone has the information compiled -- is a complete roster, or at least one covering Manhattan, from, say, 1980 to 1995.
But I'll gladly take anything you've got. Keep it coming!
Yes, the first time I saw a Blitz bus was T6H-5309A #5305 and I nearly passed out.
Wayne
Nice job, Mark - thanks.
Jim D.
Thanks Mark for that roster!
Thank you Mark. However, this still doesn't clarify the original numbers. See I don't even want the original numbers bus for bus I would like something like:
5000 were 8400s
5100 were 6000s
Something like that, just a skim of info.
Oh this is impossible!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
OK...here goes...
5000s were 8000s (1966 TDH-5303AC)
5100s were 8800s (1968 T6H-5305A)
5200s were 4300s (1970 T6H-5305A)
5300s/5400s were 6000s, with a few 6900s thrown in and a 4800 and a 4500 here and there (1972/1973 T6H5309A/5310A)
David
THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
P.S. THANK YOU!!!!!
I don't mean to sound like a pesamist, but how could the Urban Transit Club possibly get that information? The only two agencies that would have it would be Transit and Blitz. Is blitz still in business? If so, somebody that works there might want to dig through their old records to see if they can find the list. But probably for a fee.
If transit still has the list, it would probably be in the warehouse of old records which is located near the Brooklyn Train Yard by Coney Island. However, for legal reasons, I hear very few transit workers are allowed in there. It is like a minature Fort Knox. However,if you can find somebody that works there, again for a price, he may want to do some digging.
BIG AL
The Urban Transit Club web site has been promoting such a roster for the past couple of months. To date, I've seen no progress on that roster, but the Blitz roster is probably one of the most heavily guarded secrets in the history of NYC Transit...
Well, if it's heavily guarded then the Urban transit Club should have never said that they were going to post the numbers online....top secret is mor like it. Thanks CTRABS74!
Perhaps I should've re-phrased that last comment. I had meant to say that finding out the original numbers of the Blitz buses seeminly is a difficult task. The UTC web site had indicated that the information would have been posted around early April, but I guess researching that information has proven to be a little more difficult than originally anticipated.
As I understand it, the non-Blitz renumberings (GMC 4000's into the 6000's and Flx 4000's into the 7000's) are to be listed as well.
Here is the lasted New Bus Procurement Assignment
*However like many things in the TA, Are Subject To Change
2002 Orion VII CNG: 7560-7619.
These are slated for Jackie Gleason Service, the remander of the order, #7620-7809 will follow at a later time (possibly when Coliseum or the MV conversion is finished)
2002 MCI D4501: 2825-2924
#2825-2849 (25) are slated for Castletong while the Orions will be transferred to Yukon for service. #2850-2878 (29) are slated for Jamaica while the Novas are placed into local service. #2879-2895 (17) are slated for Queens Village while Suburban Configuration RTS & Orions are placed into local service. #2896-2907 (12) are slated for Stengel while the Orions are transferred to QV for local service. #2808-2924 (17) are slated for Ulmer Park as suppliments to thier existing MCI Cruiser Fleet.
2002-03 D60HF: 5510-5769
#5510-5539 (30) are slated for Kingsbridge as suppliments to thier existing Articulated Fleet (Good chance some RTS buses made be retired/displaced elsewhere by this). #5540-5620 (81) are slated for the primier of the all new 100th Street Garage for Lexington Avenue Service, other artics will come from Quill to 100th for service on the M86. #5621-5701 (81) are slated for 126th Streeet service on the M15, RTS buses will be retired/displaced elsewhere by this. #5702-5741 (40) are slated for Quill, this artic batch may very well start artic service on lines like the M14 (which has been in planning for artic conversion). #5742-5769 (28) are slated for Stengel service, line of operation is unknown, Q44 is a likely suspect BUT not definate. I have a memo with planned artic lines but have missplaced it, I do remember seeing the Q44 as one of the Queens lines for articulated conversion. Also you will notice that there is no allotment for Flatbush, YET! (As stated above, this is all subject to change between now and then)
Hope this helps you all!
Regards,
Trevor Logan, Jr
www.transitalk.org
Q44? Will the artics handle that left off Supthin onto Archer Av and along Archer Av? How about Supthin Blvd between Hillside Av and Archer Av? Is it wide enough? Also, ALL three M14 routes are going to be artic? Otherwise.....thank you Trevor for the info!
Like I tell many people, I've driven articulated buses when I was with NJT. The are 100x times easier to maneuver than your standard 40' bus. The cheap easy rule is that once you clear the middle axle past your corner, the back of the bus will follow. So basically all you are "really" worried about is the first 35' of the bus. However, like any large vehicle, you stay in your mirrors until the turn is completed!
So to make a long story short, The artics CAN make those turns!
As for the M14, I know I heard that when it was tested there was an issue with the turn around at Abingdon Square, so if that is the case, the M14A will not see artics.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
According to the M14 schedule, the A is the only of the three not to go to Abingdon Square, only (some of the) Cs and (formerly) Ds do.
You mention artics going to 100th Street for the M86, how about the M79? You are free to say none are going :-)
any idea when the Orion VII order is to begin?
i am hearing now the plan to heve the artics has been scraped for now at flatbush. they abruptly stopped training on 5508 last week. i hear it is now at stengel for training.
after this order of new flyers is that it for the new flyer delivery for a while?
what the new flyers have the New! LED LIGHT?
If I am not mistaken the Q12,Q13 and Q76(during rush hrs) are also suppose be running artrics.
The Q76 running artics!! I don't think so. Reason: The 165th st. terminal. The artic would be too long as the rear would be jotting out making for a hazadous situation. Backing it up out of the terminal would be another disaster. As far as I've been hearing, only the Q44 is slated for the artics from Stengel.
BIG AL
Is delivery of the artics still slated to begin in October at the rate of 20 buses per month? If so, then I calculate that 126 will not receive their first artics until sometime in mid March of 2003 at the earliest. When the artics arrive (and I'll believe it when I see them) I would hope the following fleet changes take effect:
RTS's To Be Retired And Scrapped: 3469,3887,3895, 7535-7559. The 3000's aren't bad. They're just old and pretty much have had it. With the exception of 7540, which is a damn good bus, the rest of the 7500 remans should be driven straight out the back door and into the Harlem River!
RTS's To Be Displaced: Hopefully 126 will lose all of it's 50 1990 RTS's. Despite receiving new engines, these buses are essentially garbage and won't be missed.
Buses To Be Retained: the 17 1993 RTS's, 56 1996 RTS's and the 30 1999 RTS's. These 103 buses along with the alleged 81 artics would give 126 a total fleet of 184 buses which would be in line with the current total.
Of course this is all wishful thinking on my part. What eventually transpires is all up to the powers that be at DOB.
I was talking to a bus operator on the Q77 and he tells me the MCIs are in service from jamaica. i did see 2850 on merrick blvd today with the TRAINING BUS sign on it.
MCI in service on the x63 today...2851...Paul, I sent u the pic...enjoy!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
i just wanted to know from my fellow busfans, what double number buses do u like?
my favorites are
Q44 from stengel
Q77 from jamaica,
and Q88 from Queens village cause my dad is a operator on it
well i would have to Say:
M11 - Hudson
B11 - Jakie Gleason
Bx11- Kingsbridge
Bx22- Gun hill
B44- Flatbush
S44 - Castleton
S55- Yukon
M66 - 126 st
S66 - CastletonB77 - Jackie Gleason
Nova #9093 - B6 - Run: #070 - Limited
Due to a derailment and a suspension of service earlier today on the Morris and Essex I had to alter my way of getting to the Mall at Short Hills. So I did what I originally planned, took PATH to Newark and the 70 bus. Newark penn station is very nice, much nicer than NYC Penn. The bus station is right there.
As for Newark, right around the station there are alot of offices and it is quite busy. The worst part of the bus ride was in western Newark, it is pretty run down over there. Irvington didn't look too bad. The roads through Milburn are very much like here in Northern Nassau, except there was less traffic. Both ways I had what appeared to be fairly new RTS buses. They were extremely fast. The Cummins engine that they use in there is awesome! I bet they could blow past a brand new Series 60 powered MCI without a problem. The acceleration is almost car like. Both buses had A/C most of the time.
We also passed the Hilton garage (I assume this services the #70).
As for the mall itself, the bus drops you off on a service road pretty close to the entrance. The mall is very upscale. I didn't stay that long, since there was no where reasonable to eat there, and the mall wasn't that big. It does well though, even though it lacks stuff most malls have (like a food court, Radio Shack, drugstore,etc).
I definately like Garden State Plaza much better. The Short Hills Borders is very small compared to the one in GSP. Short Hills has no place for ice cream, no yogurt!
I also like the Paramus area better, it's more modern and not so old (like Millburn). Millburn actually has many incandescent crescent moon fixtures, yet another thing it has in common with Sea Cliff!
The bus ride was most enjoyable though, those Cummins powered NJT RTS's are some of the fastest buses I have ever rode on.
So Short Hills is kinda like Walt Whitman out here on LI, but even WW is better they have a few reasonable places to eat. Not to mention there is a Wendy's within walking distance (and right by an N79 stop) on Jericho Tpke.
Newark nicer then Penn Station NY? I dont think so. NWK Penn looks run down but they do have some nice connections to the subway and bus lines. Its basically a transportation hub with connection to Greyhound busses. NYP beats NWK Penn by a long shot.
Well Newark seemed nicer than NY penn because it looked alot cleaner, and had easier access to schedules. The restrooms were much cleaner. Signage much better. Also NY Penn is always HOT. Newark is more comfortable.
Newark Penn is also ABOVE GROUND, unlike NYC, which makes it seem more airy. Of course if the Old Penn station in NY was still there, that would be grand.
If NYC Penn would get relocated to the Farley building, this would be a large improvement. I don't mind the existing LIRR section that much, but the Amtrak/NJT section, even though partially remodeled, still feels like a hot hole in the ground.
is it a short walk from the Path station to where the buses are at in Newark Penn Station? i dont wanna get lost when i go there to take the 70 bus or the 62 on respective mall trips to Short Hills/Livingston and the Woodbridge Center Mall.
It is a very short walk, everything from PATH, NJ Transit, Amtrak, and buses is very interconnecting. The bus terminal is part of Newark-Penn and is right outside the door.
From what i seen this is the List of buses with the New LED Tail Bud Front/Back
UP- 9079, 9081, 9083, 9090, 9093
FP: 9140, 9145( I think), 9152
ENY: 8691, 8910
they Are More on the WAy i Guess that why they are senting Buses to Nova
Nova is not putting those lights on the buses. Transit is doing it themselves. The latest batch of buses equipped with the L.E.D.s don't have them on the front. Only in the rear.
BIG AL
What they have balios sign in the rear and twinvision Le-Dot on the front that unigue.Also does anybody have a photo of them.If you do send it to me via email at van2001ko@netscape.net
thank you
at flatbush we have 8411 which has led on the rear left and standard bulbs on rear right. i guess they only did half the transition on that bus. lol
why not replace all the signs instead in the rear?
Where is the site where Coliseum Depot will be bulid i 4 got where i saw it but it said the streets near the depot was E177 & Rye Av is this true
THanks
Coliseum Depot is at East 177th Street off the exit of the Sheridan Expwy and a block south of East Tremont Avenue...I think the intersection is 177th St/Devoe Av...but I know where it is, since I see it from the White Plains IRT every once in a while.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
White Plains IRT
The million dollar question is : Why is it called the Coliseum depot?
The original building was a real coliseum in another city, Philadelphia IINM, it was taken apart, shipped to The Bronx and rebuilt. The balconies were not included. I remember when my Father was a Supervisor there in the 60s you could look up and see the doors that would have led to the seats on the Balcony.
What do I win? 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
About 8pm tonight from my viewpoint at work on 211 and Jamaica, all in a convoy, QV-bound, were 9251, 9253, and 9254. Saw another one later couldnt th number but it was a 92xx.
This may finally put the last remaining 1700's to bed!!
But then again, you never know.
BIG AL
big al,
two qv rts in tow friday morning - numbers scraped off, however they looked like 3900s, didn't note soft seats
They were #4328 and #1751.
Huh?! What the heck is goin on here? 2850-2852 are in Jamaica. OK!
107 and more Orion Suburbans are going to QV. OK! Why the heck are Nova Suburbans heading there too? I assume that 515-521 will return to Stengel since they're in dying need of buses from what I heard. And 3902 3962 went from QV-KB. Huh?! As far as 1751 and 1767 are concerned, I bet they'll go to KB to join 3902 and 3962. Wouldn't be surprised if 3503 and 3562 joined them as well.
#2851 X63
#107 Q46
#515 Q88
#9251 Q79
saw 3962 like 3 times yesterday on the q46 and running on/off to qv on jamiaca av in PM
3902 3909 are at KB. I've heard 3916 now at KB.
#3916 BX7
i remember reading somewhere that bus #9624,not sure if its that one,is the only RTS bus to have one of those info signs inside the bus like LIBus does.does anyone know what depot that bus comes out of?
I've seen it on the M42, which is MJQ Depot. (Michael J Quill)
Saw a new piece tonight about a new option for purchasing the Metrocard.
TA is introducing the Yearly Metrocard - for $756 (Approx figure - can't remember the exact amount).
If anyone has any info on this, please answer my questions.
1 - In calculating the price, $756 is the 12 month equivalent of the $63 monthly unlimited. Would this be only for the locals? Or is this going to be the price for the $120/month express metrocard?? - I would like it if it was express, saving me around $500/year.
2 - This is an option only for businesses. As of right now, it can't be offered by token booths/MVMs. Would it be feasible to offer it at these locations - payable by CC/ATM only?
3 - What would be the recourse if someone loses it?
I'm sure it's just for local buses. At that price, there's no point in selling it to individuals. No one would buy it -- it offers only a 5-day advantage over twelve 30-day passes but the risk of losing it is huge.
the new cards will not be sold at MVMs or booths. If a customer has a problem witht he card, official bulletins advise us to tell the customer to see their employer and yes- pay their fare. If we check a card and it turns out to be a yearly card, the computer wont let us add or trade that card.
I have seen the Yeatly Metrocards. They are from Transitchek. There front are yellow instead for Sevler like the rest. I had some right before I left B/O. It was weard seeing a date pop up 12mouth later. I do not know the price they pay, but I do know that it come right out of there pay checks. I asked someone how they pay for it, and she told me.
Robert
Can anyone please give me the details concerning the accident in 1993, involving said bus 5567. Also, if there are any articles, etc online, please direct the link and include pics if they are available.
I believe this was the incident where the rear axle broke on the Gowanus Expressway, resulting in some passenger injury. The buses were all taken out of service for a time, replaced with local buses until the Orions were delivered. The express buses served out their lives on school trips on Staten Island.
-Hank
Sometimes I get into these trivia moods that tests everyone's memory--if they are a bus fan that is. I referred to the 1990/91 delivery of the 8000's in my last post, and a VERY interesting delivery it was.
Back then the TA took delivery of the much-ballyhooed 8000-8399 fleet. These buses were to be the start of the TA's clean air fleet era. Out of the 400-bus order 397 of them were equipped with a device called a trap-oxidizer which was designed to remove particles from exhaust emissions. There was one bus, 8397 (now scrapped), that was powered by methonal fuel, and two others 8398 and 8399 (since sold to Command) that were the TA's first CNG powered buses. The original assignment was as follows:
8000-8033 to 146th St (now Hale)
8034-8079 to GH
8080-8129 to ENY
8130-8179 to FLA
8180-8219 to 126
8220-8279 to HUD
8280-8339 to YUK
8340-8396 to QV
8397 to FLU (now Stengel)
8398-8399 to JG
Now the fun part. The TA had a bright idea of assigning to 146th St an entire fleet of the "clean-air" buses. To do this, each of the above depots would send a portion of their allotment of buses to, what is now, Mother Hale Depot. How many of you alleged bus-fans remember this:
8000-8033 (34) remained at 146th St
8034-8079 (45) from GH
8080-8089 (10) from ENY (2281-2290 to ENY)
8172-8179 (8) from FLA
8180-8190 (12) from 126
8262-8279 (18) from HUD (2411-2428 to HUD)
8280-8292 (13) from YUK (low 2300's went to YUK)
8340-8350 (11) from QV (2406-2410, 2580-2586 to QV)
The experiment didn't last long and in 1992 the buses were re-assigned as follows:
8034-8044, 8046-8065, 8067-8072, 8075-8087 and 8089 to GH
(8000-8033, 8045, 8066, 8073-8074 and 8088 stayed at 146th St)
8172-8190, 8262-8292, 8340-8350 to the new Manhattanville Depot
Bring back memories?
Mark
Don't forget that 8316-8339 were transferred to CAS sometime for a swap with 4873-4899
I remember bus #8015 at QV for about a couple of months on the Q46 before going back into Manhattan. Trust me, i know that! Also, I do remember buses #8340-8350 at QV and #8397 at QV before going to CS along with #8352 very briefly.
You're right. Bus 8015 found its way to both QV then FP shortly after its delivery to 146/MCH. I did mention that 8340-8350 were at QV originally, 8397 though was never at QV. It was assigned to Flushing/Stengel because of its proximity to the Triboro Coach garage where the methonal bus was fueled.
Mark
Yes, MCH also had 8351-8354, I remember that vividly because those were my favorite 4 TMCs that MCH had, along with 8059. My great grandmother lives in the apartment building directly in front of MCH. So I cna probably give you a history book on 146th/MCH.
Regards
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/9293/destsigns.htm
I wish someone would update this site or provide a link to the updated site with all the destination signs listed.
This could be a good thing to TransiTalk.
which one of the nyc depot has the most buses in them?
which depot has the least buses?
Most - Yukon
Least - Amsterdam
soon nyc will have loads of flyer? where will these old rts 3000-4000
buses go? they need to go in the junk yard but we know mta will never do that
now with jackie gleason new buses coming to the depot and the b8 coming too. will the depot move the low floor flyer out of the depot?
No, JG is the onyl Depot so far that can fuel CNG Buses.
Robert
www.transitalk.org has re-opened the Depot by Depot roster for the MTA-NYC Bus. It is current as of yesterday. Go Check It Out For The Lastest Info in Bus Locations......
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Who can I contact at NYCT to receive this copy.
Any information is helpful.
Sorry, I don't "follo" this question.
David
David, you must have read, or "follo" my mind....................
I know what you are getting at,but lets defuse this before we get into another sitiuation and we lose this site again.i for one was lost with out BT.
When the Stillwell Av station is closed for reconstruction starting this September & since there will be a shuttle bus for the F train between Av X & Stillwell Av & that the shuttle bus will come out of Ulmer Park Depot. Will Ulmer Park receive anymore RTS buses, if so, how many more RTS buses are coming to Ulmer Park for the shuttle bus & what depot(s) will the additional RTS buses come from.
Can anyone explain what the changes are for both the N & W lines starting this September with the Stillwell Av reconstruction project.
first off this should've been posted on subtalk not bustalk but anyway,the simple thing is they are gonna flip flop service,N to Queens&Manhattan weekdays only,W to Queens&Manhattan all times via bridge,via tunnel late nights and weekends.
Like many of the Queens Buses that go into Nassau County (like Q5, Q85 and others)
Some Bronx buses could be able to go into Westchester County without a big delay in service. The Bx16 goes into Westchester a bit, but not much (other side of the border)
Examples: The Bx7 and 10 continue on Riverdale Avenue for a few more blocks (the W8 is a bit above the Bronx-Yonkers border, the Bx buses could connect to them there) this would also make turnarounds a bit easier.
The Bx41 (Limited) could go for another 5 blocks if it wanted to as a part time route.
How far is westchester from the bronx.
The Bronx borders Westchester County in some places
The Bronx borders Westchester all along its northern border (or Westchester borders The Bronx all along its southern border, if you like.) The two used to be one Westchester County until (I think) 1911.
:-) Andrew
The two used to be one Westchester County until (I think) 1911.
The Bronx was part of NEW YORK County until 1914. As Bronx took over each part of the Bronx, those areas switched from Westchester to New York County. Bronx west of the river joined the City and County of NY in 1874, east of it in 1895.
Yes they definitely should. Going a few blocks outside the City Limits to a major destination like a mall or hospital, or even a better place to make a turnaround (check out the awkward turnback on the Bx9) would make operations easier, and provide better customer service to boot.
what awkward turn back? doesn't it turn on 263rd street?
It does a U turn on Broadway
There are a number of routes that could potentially be extended into Westchester County from the Bronx. The Bx7, Bx9, and Bx10 could be extended into downtown Yonkers, giving residents a second option into the city other than the "Bee-Line" routes 1-3. The Bx34 could be extended from its Katonah Av terminus into the Mount Vernon shopping district, giving residents from the Bronx and Mount Vernon direct access from Fordham Center to downtown Mount Vernon without having to take either MNRR or the "Bee-Line" routes 4 and 20. The Bx16 could go deeper into Pelham Manor, giving those residents better access to the IRT subway at Dyre Av, or the IND subway at 205th street and Bainbridge Av. The Bx41, as mentioned, could also go into Mount Vernon, for connections between their downtown and the IRT subway at White Plains Rd.
The reason the aforementioned will all be pipe dreams is that first of all, Westchester County will be engaged in extensive transit jusridictional battles with the City and State of NY over the routes. That is not to mention how the bus links can potentially draw people away from the areas surrounding rail stations in extreme lower Westchester, killing economic development and maintenance. Thirdly, the extensions amount to extra time and pay that B/Os are entitled to (don't take this as me being against B/Os), which management does not intend to shell out anytime soon. And there is the matter of extra bus traffic along streets that local residents are not accustomed to.
The Bx16 goes into Mount Vernon for a block or two because of Mundy Lane. The Bx16 connects with both White Plains Road and Dyre lines (acting as a shuttle to those who got off at the wrong terminal).
[The Bx34 could be extended from its Katonah Av terminus into the Mount Vernon shopping district, giving residents from the Bronx and Mount Vernon direct access from Fordham Center to downtown Mount Vernon without having to take either MNRR or the "Bee-Line" routes 4 and 20.]
Transit tried that in 1991. The Bx34 would have been extended east on Nereid Avenue, north on Mundy Lane, east on Third Street, north on Fifth Avenue, right on Prospect Avenue to the Mount Vernon Metro-North station.
Westchester DOT actually endorsed the idea, as a way of killing the idiotic #54-Creek line. However, Mount Vernon city officials objected on two counts:
1. The extended route would divert shoppers from Gramatan Avenue to Fordham. (Of course, the few shoppers who went to Gramatan Avenue did so only to catch the #55 to Cross County in Yonkers!!)
2. The additional buses would case damage to Mount Vernon's streets; Transit should pay for any such damage IN ADVANCE. Transit agreed to the same payment scheme that WDOT had agreed to for damage caused by County-owned buses. (Of course, WDOT was paying ZERO!!)
Mount Vernon oficials don't seem to object the Bx16 riding on Mundy Lane North, I wonder how that route got through.
Mount Vernon officials don't seem to object the Bx16 riding on Mundy Lane North, I wonder how that route got through.
[Mount Vernon officials don't seem to object the Bx16 riding on Mundy Lane North, I wonder how that route got through.]
That one dates back at least seventy years, to the days when routes in both the Bronx and Westchester County were operated by the same company (streetcars) or related companies (buses).
Wouldn't that have meant that the Bx34 would have also gone into Yonkers as well, to go from Katonah to Nereid? I wonder if they would have had to get permission from Yonkers to go through Mclean, or could they just do it anyway (without stopping)
[Wouldn't that have meant that the Bx34 would have also gone into Yonkers as well, to go from Katonah to Nereid?]
That's true. However, pull-outs and pull-ins already use McLean.
- - - - -
[I wonder if they would have had to get permission from Yonkers to go through Mclean, or could they just do it anyway (without stopping)?]
LEGALLY, permission is not needed. As an operating agency of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, NYCT is already permitted to operate on ANY street or road ANYWHERE in the 12-county MTA district - as long as such street can physically handle buses. (BTW: Both NYCT and Long Island Bus do need written permission to operate on parkways, which were specifically designed not to accommodate buses; thanks, Robert Moses!)
As a practical matter, however, Transit does seek "blessings" before attempting any new border crossings. If concerns can't be worked out and "blessings" secured, nothing happens. (That's why the Q79 doesn't go all the way to the Floral Park LIRR station.)
Because the Village of Floral Park is a seperate government from Nassau County they had the right to block the Q-79 from entering the Village as stupid as it seems
Thank You
The additional buses would case damage to Mount Vernon's streets
How could they cause damage to Mount Vernon's streets, people drive around on them, trucks and other vehicles use them as well. If NYC streeets can take all the traffic, so can Westchester (unless they bulit them weak so they couldn't get traffic).
How about letting SI routes go to Jersey?
I know that only several occasions the TA did attempt to extend the Bx34 into Mt Vernon but it never happened.
The last time was about 10 years ago.
Thank You
I saw #107 on the Q46 LTD w/o QV Logos. I also saw #9253 on the X68 with QV Logos and #9250 was deadheading to Jamaica from the Q88 and #9250 have QV Logos
9250-9256 have been moved from JAM to QV. This comes as a bit of a surprise, but hey, this is the TA and anything can happen and usually does.
Mark
Saw 9255 on the X68 with QV Decals on her. Also MCI's 2851 2852 and 2860 were seen on Queens Blvd on the X63 for the Friday PM Rush. 9261 9262 9267 9268 and 9347 were the Nova Suburbans on the X63/X64.
I assume 9257-9259 will be next to go to QV? 620 629 9286 X68.
Has anybody seen 107 yet? Any other 1xx from CS there?
#9255 x68
#2860 x63
#107 Q75
106 on the 46 friday morning
Also, I spotted 107 and 125 on the x32 Thursday while I was on a Bx26 to Bedford Park...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
since the port authory get new jersy buses in it why not have a mahatten local bus go into new jersy like jersey city or newark it's only fare
NJT have more buses such as Mci's than New york.New jersery transit is a ALL-STATE Transit.So people from A.C. and places like that can get to New York easy.
NJT has more MCIs, but MTA-NYC Transit has FAR more total buses.
The Atlantic City run isn't that big a deal to NJT; it's the commuter routes to NYC and Philadelphia that matter. NJT makes quite a bit of money on the US-9 corridor (Toms River-Lakewood-Old Bridge to NYC) - it helps to offset the local inner-city routes that lose money.
MTA does not have interstate rights. They may travel through NJ to and from Staten Island, but they can not serve NJ without USDOT operating certification, which NJT/TNJ/Public Service has had since the 1920s. All NJT buses can cross state lines on any route, because they're orderd to meet USDOT specs. MYA does not order their buses that way, and would need minor changes to meet specs (such as the "white line").
Then you have the practical aspect... where would MTA serve in NJ that doesn't already have some service to NYC by NJT or a private carroer? No one seems to ride the Staten Island-Bayonne-Jersey City route much any longer. Other than that, just about every NJ town in the northeast portion of the state has existing service to Manhattan.
Saturday June 8, will be the LAST day you'll see the AM General ETB's on the 59, 66, and 75. According to SEPTA, they will go out of service for the next 18 months while work is being done at the Frankford Terminal. Knowing SEPTA, they will let the already shot-to-hell AMG's rust down to nothing, and tell us here in Philly, that these vehicles are not worth returning to service, and will find a sneaky way to junk them, and these lines in NE Philly will be steathily converted to diesel buses. This has happened down in South Philly, where the ETB's are rarely operated at night and weekends. In fact, I hear that SEPTA would love to get rid of them down there, and extend the 29 and 79 to the lucrative bus stop at the Pier 70 shopping complex. That Franklin Mills extension is looking mighty good for an excuse to extend the 66 Bus there. And the ridership on the 75 can barely support a small bus since the western end of the route has sunk into nothingness. The AM Generals are 22 years old, and they were despised by everyone at SEPTA since they arrived from the factory, and virtually no one is building them now, particularly with all of the "alternative fuels" buses running around on the streets these days. Another sign is the coming of those 12 diesel-electric hybrids SEPTA is getting from New Flyer. If those Buses are successful, that would give SEPTA the justification to get rid of the ETB's (or Trackless Trolleys) altogether!
So please hurry down to Philly tommorrow, and catch the last sightings of these "Mohicans". I guarantee you, the twin-wire vehicles will be dead before you know it.
septa is sopposed to order 60 ETB About acouple of years from now!
I hate to do this, but what are ETB buses?
Robert
>>I hate to do this, but what are ETB buses?<<
Electric Trolley Buses or trackless trolleys.
Bill "Newkirk"
That what came to me just after I posted it. I was in bed and it pop in there. Thanks
Robert
:(
NOOOOO!!!! I never even got a chance to ride them. It's so sad. The problem is, SEPTA needs to invest some money into these lines, like they are with the 15. Exend them to different places. ETBs are so rare nowadays, and it would be good somehow for SEPTA to have such an rare type of transportation. I mean, a lot of transit systems are only bus and heavy rail, with some having lightrail. I think you can request a special order from a bus company to make trolley buses. I know that Gillig made a phantom trolley bus for Seattle's METRO.
More MCI arrivals in SE Queens. Today in Jamaica a convoy of 2861-2868 arrived. Yesterday, 2855 and 2856 arrived. As many of you know, Novas 9250-9256 went across town to QV (which marks the return of 9252-9256 to QV). And spotted in service today were 2850-2852 on the X63, while 2854 and 2856 were manipulating on the X64. Oh and Trevor, JAKE IS IN THE HOUSE, as the lovely sounding Jacobs engine brake was heard on 2852.
Speaking of QV they have two of JAM's MCI's (2853 and 2859) for operator training. They should start receiving their real batch in about a week.
Mark
i think i saw 2887 heading toward QV about 7pm friday
Noted and adjusted on the Rosters!!!!
Trevor
These 2 links on the bottom of your roster page are dead:
Main Page: http://www.transitalk.org/transitalk/Sites/Main.html
NYCT Pictures: http://www.transitalk.org/transitalk/Sites/MTA/NYCT.html
There is one MCI at CS depot as well. I did not catch the number.I did not park in the depot.
Wait, JAKES on the MTA-NYCT MCI's? I thought that was for NJT only?
The Jacobs Engine Brake is NOT a NJT designed option.
MCI has been providing the Jake Brake option on all coaches powered by Detroit Diesel engines. I just found out that the follow coaches have engines brakes
1) The TOR Tappan ZEE-xpress MCI 102-DLW3SS Cruisers (RC140-RC144) Powered by DDC Series 60 with a Allison B500R World.
2) The Greyhound MCI MC-12 Coaches (2900-3100 Series) Powered by DDC Series 50 with a Allison B400R World.
3) The Rockland Coaches/Red & Tan MCI 96-A3 Cruisers (1100 Series) Powered by DDC Series 92 (8V-92) Turbocharged with a Allison HT-740.
4) ALL of the MTA Commuter Cruisers Powered by DDC Series 60 with a Allison B500R World.
However the deal is that depending on the customers specs, the Jake brake can be turned off and on by either the flick of a switch on the dash board (like the TOR Cruisers or Red & Tan A3 Cruisers) or from the engine itself in the DDEC controls (Like the MTA Cruisers). There has been recent incidents of the older MTA Cruisers sounding off with low setting Jakes. It looks like the MTA is looking for a alternative to the retarder, which in my opinion is just a horrible option on a bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
so that means that thr mta mcis already have jake brakes just activate it.
CORRECT!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
while i think they should only activate it.A set it to low or mediam to make traction and brakeing the snow during winters easier.
From time to time, I've seen Liberty Lines Express buses signed up as simply "Katonah." Now, I know that LL runs extensivly through the western Bronx and has a route to Getty Square in Yonkers. But Katonah, NY is a little far up for an express bus run to and from the city, isn't it?
[From time to time, I've seen Liberty Lines Express buses signed up as simply "Katonah."]
Those are "bypass" trips on the BxM4B: they make all Manhattan pick-up stops, then go directly to Katonah Avenue in Woodlawn without bothering with Concourse drop-offs.
ahhh... I see, thanks for the clarification.
Peace,
ANDEE
Thats the 5:10 "Katonah Express". I have done that run a few times. Bus takes the Deagan to 233rd and drops off at Napier, Kepler, 234th, 237th and 242nd.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
How many people is on the 5:10 Katonah Express?
Between 15 and 20.
Kevin
Didn't LL operate a route from White Plains to Brewster via Katonah (I think it was the 84) for Westchester County Bee Line until a few years ago?
Did the Bx7 ever go into Yonkers at all, I see there was a destination sign that said Yonkers, was this ever used? where annd when was it used (if at all)?
http://www.geocities.com/NYCTBusMan2000/destsigns/bronx.htm
I didn't catch the exact numbers, but we now have a few very ugly square sorry-excuse-for-a-bus 100-series, 500-series and 600-series Onions.
RTS's #1751** and #4328 were towed to Calverton Scrap Yard on Friday morning.
The 2 MCI coaches mentioned by Q5Merrick in another post, as told to me by the Supt. of Transportation, are staying at QV.
Big Al may be able to elaborate.
** (The tow operator who was hooking #4328 couldn't remember the exact number of the earlier tow without some persuasion from me. This might be an error, but he believes it was #1751. I'll check).
According to the post Trevor made, Jamaica depot was getting the 2850-2885 or something like that and QV was getting 2886 to 2903 or something close too that. From what Q5Merrick has been saying, some 2850 series buses are already at and in service at Jamaica. So unless they are mixing up 2850 series MCI's between Jam & QV like the way they did with the low 9000's between Jam & ENY, I see it unlikely that the 2 MCI's at QV would be theirs. I suspect the Supt who spoke to Brooklyn67 and myself at QV depot the other day probably just didn't want to admit he really didn't know what the real story was.
BIG AL
Is that the one on Long Island near Tangers Shopping Mall that I've been talking about? If so, then that is not Calverton...it's Riverhead. Can you get those numbers of the Orions if you can?
Calverton and Riverhead are neighboring towns.
I know that. I just did not know that Calverton had a scrap yard. I just trying to find that out.
I rode a 35 foot Orion V/CNG yesterday. It was number 5569. The bus did not have a "birthyear" and when I asked the driver, he just looked up above the stop requested sign expecting to have his answer (I wouldn't have asked if it were up there). Does anyone here know what year that bus was built and how many other 35 foot CNGs they have? I saw one of the 47 earlier this week, but I would have to look at my notes to determine if it was the same bus.
This was my first time on the 35 foot CNGs. The bus was not as fast, the sounds of the bus while it was moving were different, and the inside was not as clean as the other Orions from that time. Also, the seats were a ligher blue than on the other 35 foot Orions from the 90s.
Bus #5568 and 5569 are both 1995 Orion V CNG, I remember when they were delievered they came with the two Orion VI CNG Low Floors and there was a huge ceremony for them!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I wouldn't be surprised, they were the first CNG buses for Ride-On AND the DC area.
Which Orion VIs would those be? 5801 and 5802? I thought they had a third one, but there is a 40 foot Orion V CNG at 5803.
June 11th is 'Free Ride Tuesday'
June 11th is "Free Ride Tuesday" on the big blue KYW Newsradio bus on SEPTA Route 31 -- stretching from Overbrook to Center City.
Look for the big blue KYW SEPTA bus every Tuesday -- and when you hop aboard, it's free -- courtesy of KYW Newsradio 1060!
From the KYW website.
Last week when I was up there, it was running on the #30-Vine Haverhill, and this week it's on the #31-Overbrook. Does this mean that the route number ascends each week, so that next week, it'll be on route #32-Ridge-Lyceum followed by route #33.
If so, one thing's for sure, they're gonna have hell keepin that thing from between the tracks when it tries to work the entire route #34-Angora!
Actually, one of my spies at 1234 Market tells me that the KYW bus (5385) will actually be on the 44-Ardmore/121-Gladwynne next Tuesday (06.18), then will operate over the G on 06.25.
The first five weeks of this promotion involves routes from Callowhill. 5385 is normally assigned to Southern, however is sent to the assigned depot (in this case Callowhill) on Tuesdays.
BTW, Adam, it's "Haverford" not "Haverhill"... =)
They probably wouldn't be on any Frontier route huh. Hey, maybe I'd see it on the L. Anyway, speaking of artics and Allegheny, what was the purpose of those Volvo artics? I never saw them on any transit routes, and just on the El Shuttle.
septa still use them vovlos.
The Volvos usually saw service on weekdays only, and only on 4 lines - the 9, 27, 48, and 60. They were never used on the 33 because the Volvos did not have wheelchair lifts. On weekends, with rare exceptions, the four above mentioned lines saw RTS, Neos, or NABIs. NABIs were real common on the 9 on weekends; ditto for the 60.
And, yes, the Free Ride bus will be at Frontier at some point. They'd probably use it on the 93, 96, 98, 99, and 124/125.
i seen one on the 33
Actually the Volvos did put in a rare appearence on the 33 on a couple of occasions. In early '86 the Volvos did the 33 for a few weeks in the winter because some of the winter snow storms made the Manayunk-Roxborough area treacherous for the big buses. Also during 2000, they did a couple of runs on the 33, backing up the Neoplans during the week of the GOP convention.
yep it also made apear's on the 65
does anybody has the specs on them concerning the top speed and engine.
I thought this was the first week it was running...
The week before last, the Free Ride Tuesday promotion kicked off on the 21/42 lines. Last Tuesday was what Adam was referring to.
FWIW, the Free Ride Tuesday promotion will not take place on any Allegheny Depot based route, since it's an all artic depot.
When the TA decicded to purchase the articulated buses they were to be assigned to the following routes only
Manhattan-M15,M27/M50,M42,M101,M102,M103
Bronx-Bx1,Bx2,Bx12,Bx41,Bx55
Brooklyn-B41,B44,B46
Interesting how things changed
Thank You
"Interesting how things changed"
Can someone clue me in {if it wouldn't take too long} on why things have changed? Why are Manhattan and the Bronx swimming in Artics and the three simple routes they could have been on in Bklyn didn't get any?
well the m100, m102, m103 will have them soon. But why don't the m42, m50, m27 don't have them?????
mta don't like brooklyn i see the b41 is a very busy route when they first came out with them b41 should have them and the b44 too
I'm sure they're going to run a test and try to make the turn-around inside LIJ hospital on the Q-46. I don't think it's possible to make that turn the way it's situated right now.
We'll see...
Why would some of the bus route in Suffolk County Transit start with S, like S60,S69, but some do not, such as 3D/6B?
Do they represent different type of bus route?
I haven't been back there in a while...but from what I saw, the S-prefixed routes are what I would term as "mainline" routes and those others, 3D, 6B, etc., seem to be community service routes with smaller buses.
No, actually from a ST operator himself....routes like the S60, S92 are the longer bus routes and the 3A, 10A bus routes are what they call "Feeder routes" which feeds into the main routes of ST. The "S" routes get the 35-foot buses and the 3A, 10A routes get the 30-foot buses.
But from what i have seen in Stony Brook, the S71 always use the Flexible , while 3D always use Orion and gillig.
Well,the S71 is a NEW route. Trust me! It was not there for that long. As for the Orions, okay....the S92 and 10A bus routes use Gilligs as well. The further up you are, the better the buses are. That's a fact!
What do you mean the futher up you are, the betther the bueses are?
and I still don't understand how it related to the route # and what bus they used on the road.
Okay, in Southampton...when you see a bus..it's a miracle! That's all! The further west you are, (hence Patchogue, Holbrook, Ronkonkoma, Sayville, etc.) you will see more buses! Now, what else don't you get? The route numbers? The "S" means it's the main route and routes with no "S" means that it connects with the main routes. I hope that helps!
what are you talking about? all the buses uses on all the routes are short like hell not to mention every bus runs at 1 hour headways.although i dont think that was a problem.once on the S56 only like 5 other people ever got on that bus from Smith Haven Mall to Commack,and thats a 50min trip.
Okay, first the S92 runs from East hampton to Orient POint, that's an hour trip with quite a number of people BUT I just see Gilligs and quit a few. If I lived further up the island like Patchogue or Huntington, I would see more in the way of buses (true they made not run as often...BUT at least they run compared to Southampton where you must wait for one bus to come back from Sag Harbor (10A, which has only one bus!). When I was at Sports Plus in Lake Grove (near Smith Haven Mall) I was watching all the buses entering and leaving the mall on a Saturday! That's more buses than I see in Southampton in a week. I have not seen that many buses since I was living in Jamaica, Queens! Although, I really do understand what you are saying!
I'm not sure why Suffolk Transit and HART use the "S" and "H" letter prefixes at all. They're not part of the MTA (which would seem to be part of the reason why LI Bus uses the "N" prefix.) HART and ST bus route numbers do not overlap. Furthermore, in the MTA system, "S" refers to Staten Island.
:-) Andrew
I think there should be consistent, regionwide numbering. Sk for Suffolk, W for Westchester, R for Rockland, P for Putnam and O for Orange.
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manhattenville have so many buses when 100 st depot is finish will manhattenville take out some of the models? 87,88,89,90,50,40,80 and new orion buses. my opioion the m2 should go back to mc depot and them5 should be at kingbridge depot with the m4 and m3 because the depot is closer. manhattenville should be the m18, bx15, m60, bx33 and maybe the m4.
When 100th Street Depot opens, routes will be shifted among the Manhattan (and Bronx) depots. The Department of Buses will determine which routes go where, at the appropriate time.
David
Can't the MTA add Midday and Weekend Service on a few SI Express Routes? The MTA should add Midday and Weekend Service on the X21/X22 b/c of no way to get to Midtown on Bloomingdale Road on Midday and Weekends. I beleave the X23/X24(Atlantic Express) Lines should also get Midday and Weekend service as well
Don't Replay to this Posting!
Okay, I won't replay it, but you never said not to reply.
LMAO!
ROFLMAO!
Thanks, Pork Chop. I was holding my tongue.
-Hank :)
Don't Replay to this Posting! You said nothing about repeating!
If people on Bloomingdale Road on Staten Island have no way of getting to midtown during middays and weekends, that is their problem. 99% of the people who live there moved there in the last few years, and they should have done their homework regarding the transit availability (or lack thereof)in the area they were moving to. If they wanted frequent transit service to Manhattan, they should have stayed in Brooklyn, or they should have moved to a place like Marlboro, New Jersey, where a large number of "intellegent" former Brooklynites moved in recent years.
well hank how do we reply to this. all i can say is if they are so intellegent,they would know you spell intelligent the right way.
I may spell things incorrectly on occaision, but I surely would never spend $200,000 on a house, move my whole family, and ONLY THEN realize and complain that I can't travel anywhere on weekends without a car! In a place like Marlboro, New Jersey (the example I used), there is bus service to Manhattan 7 days a week, 20-21 hours a day available on Route 9. In addition, there is bus service available to Newark 6 days a week. In addition, for those who don't like buses, it's not a bad drive to the Aberdeen-Matawn rail station, where free parking is available middays and weekends, and a one seat ride to New York Penn Station is available.
In many sections of Staten Island, where no express buses are available, it's not a bad drive to an "S.I.R." rail station, which provides a trip to NOWHERE!
Yea. Or move somewhere along the X1 or X10 Route
Thing is, no one is really complaining about mid-day service in these areas. The main complaints have been overcrowding, a lack of rush hour service on Bloomingdale Rd between Woodrow and Arthur Kill Rd, and a lack of notice at the stops when they suddenly changed the route the bus takes to return to SI.
-Hank
The MTA should add Midday and Weekend Service on the X21/X22 b/c of no way to get to Midtown on Bloomingdale Road on Midday and Weekends. I beleave the X23/X24(Atlantic Express) Lines should also get Midday and Weekend service as well
just about every express bus runs all day weekdays or rush hours only with the exception of the X1,X10 and the X17.if whatever area the express bus serves really doesnt require it to be served besides the time the bus operates then it wont happen
The areas served by those express routes barely have adequate local service. There is no demand for midday service on the majority of the x-bus lines. Even the midday x17s are only about 1/2 full. Saturday service gets a few more riders, enough to keep the schedule at 90 minutes.
You want to get from Midtown to Bloomingdale Rd? Take the x1 to the Eltingville SIR station, and use the SIR to Plesant Plains, then walk. The transfer is free.
And the x21 is just a 'paper' route, and will be completely eliminated in July.
BELIEVE what you want. Atlantic Express won't provide midday service unless the city say 'do it'.
-Hank
If so, when will this happen.
In addition, how many more years does Atlantic Express have with the city to continue running both the X23 & X24 routes & have there been any complaints from riders so far on both the X23 & X24.
For those of you that are curious of the where abouts of Bus #7560, it is at Jackie Gleason Depot.
-AcelaExpress2005
Good to know, anyone hear if 7560 actually came to DC and what they did with it down here?
7560 did go to DC, but for what, I don't know.
i saw that bus a few times but unfortuantely,like 6360,i never got to ride it during its testing.on that note,will bus#6360 ever run on any route soon?
I like the way 6360 Looks, they should make more.
They can't ,Nova stopped production of the RTS when they went belly up.It is now strictly Orion,New Flyer and MCI for the NYCTA.
That sucks. I like those Nova Buses, especially the 5075-5124 & 5230-5249, in my opinion, they are pretty fast.
New Features:
1. Show the 1 train in Bklyn.
2. Now lists the subway stations name.
3. Shows the x37 and x38
4. WTC area known as WTC site.
I already a few mistakes but this is an improvement.
Since all 25 new MCI buses have arrived at Castleton Depot, I thought that some of the Orion surburban express buses was supposed to go to Yukon to replace some or all the RTS buses.
Does anyone know on when the Orion surburban express buses will be moved from Castleton to Yukon & if so, how many will Yukon receive & how many RTS buses will be removed or retired from Yukon.
some of the castleton orion coaches have made there way to yukon. they have been there since late last week.
Yesterday, Thurston, BMTman, David Shanske and myself carpooled up to Branford. Since Members Day on 4/27/02 the following has happened to three of our buses.
1 - GM Old Look TDH 5105-1291 former Connco #1491 started up and was moved. It now faces toward Short Beach.
2 - GM Old Look TDH 4512-2290 former Connco # 1261 was started up yesterday by Tony of Double A Transport (Rocky Hill, CT). I am not a mechanic but the motor was running for the first time in 25 years. Tony thinks it can be restored. He should know. His company owns a twin to this bus ex-Connco # 1265.
3 - GM New Look TDH 4519 - 0632 former Connco # 2125 was recently towed off the property by Tony to his facility. Don't know if this is to be restored or will be used for parts.
It is the hope of a member Rich Slinsky that the buses will be restored and used to shuttle Museum visitors to and from the New Haven RR stattion.
>>It is the hope of a member Rich Slinsky that the buses will be restored and used to shuttle Museum visitors to and from the New Haven RR stattion<<
As a member of Shore Line, I wrote a letter a couple of years ago with the same suggestion, although my idea was for CTransit to restore and operate the buses as shuttles to the train station.
If this comes to fruition, I wouldn't mind taking Metro North to New Haven and a bus shuttle to the museum. Glad they came about to decide what to do with them other than let them deteriorate.
Bill "Newkirk"
i'm hearing that there going to be a bus show in june. can anyone tell me where at in nyc this show will be thanks
its the annual Bus Fest on Saturday the 22nd at Court St,near the Transit Museum.
Ouch... That's the same day as the NJT Bus Roadeo in Howell.
Decisions, decisions...
Where is Howell?How to get there from NYC?
From the PABT, take NJ Transit #139 line, which operates via US 9 directly past Howell Garage en route to Lakewood. From Newark Penn Station, you can take the #67 line, which also operates via US 9 to Toms River/Dover P&R. I believe the NJT Roadeo starts at 9:00am.
How do I get to Howell? What stop I need to get off? What time it start and end?
What time does the show start?
i think i saw somewhere at 10:30 in the morning,not sure
Thank You
i miss the fishbowl buses. why did mta fixed them up and the took them of the road?
They weren't ADA compliant.
Yesterday, I visit jackie gleason depot and i wonder when the b8 come in the depot will it bring some of eny buses because jg has only to type of buses 84-8500 and 800-998 series. Why doesn't JG depot have the artic buses long ones?
and the orion buses too but not many I forgot them
Jackie Gleason Depot doesn't need Artics. They already have three types of buses: RTS, New Flyer LF CNG, and OrionV CNG, and they're about to get a fourth type called the OrionVII(I wished it looked better). And besides NYCT is planning on making JG a 100% CNG Depot, and truly doubt NYCT will make Artic CNG's(if they exist).
JG's routes don't really need any Artics, not even for the B35
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R143 L Train #8149-8156
Coming soon: R143 M Train
I made the trip guys on 6/7/02. Here are my findings:
Started with #170 on N24 going from Mineola RR to Jericho TYpke-picked up some stuff then returned on #335 on the N24. The bus had no a/c running and when i started talking to the driver about it, he said becasue the bus would go slower with the a/c on. He has been working for LI Bus for almost 23 years and when i told him i was a bus fan, he was able to tell me nfo about the buses(though he did not know the highest new bus).
His trip dropped me off in front of the LIBus garage in Mitchell Field. I was able to see Gillig #503,#535,#530,#548(missing the whole back to him) and #553. I walked over to the side and saw the following new Orion V buses:
#383,#391,#381 and #393.
The maintence guy that i talked to said the newest and highest Orion V they have is #395-didnt see it that day but its around.
I walked back to get the N16 to Roosevlet Field (#320) then connected with the N79(#164). Missed my connection at Hicksville, but the trip was well worth it. Next time, im bringing my camera.
N24-#170-Orion V CNG
N24-#325-Orion V CNG
N16-#320-Orion V CNG
N79-#164-Orion V CNG
Also, these are the buses i did see while riding:
Orion V:607,626,636.
Orion V CNG:354,315,322,329,285,156,277.
"The bus had no a/c running and when i started talking to the driver about it, he said becasue the bus would go slower with the a/c on. "
Friday, from what I remember was comfortable so they could do without A/C. But when temps are in the 80s, there's no excuse for it.
If the bus can't keep up with the schedule, then it should be given more time in the summer to complete it's run.
I doubt NYCT or NJT has this problem though, at least I haven't heard about it.
HA , back when i was a B/o driving 12 and 3000 s I would always cut the a/c off to make the bus move faster. The only drawback was those filthy operator blowers spewing warm air on me .Trust me it was better than trying to move a slow bus in and out of bus stops
Tazz On the B 8
Where is the garage?Is it able to take picture on the Gillig?
New York Transit Center
NA Transit
SEPTA held it's annual Bus Roadeo at the Vet Stadium lot yesterday. This year's display was probably one of the best ones that I've seen in the 6 years that I've been attending. In addition to the SEPTA historic buses (GM Fishbowl 4300/ex-4185; Flx New Look 6569; RTS 35-ft 4462; and Volvo artic 7011), SEPTA also had Ford cutaway 2055; Neoplan 3432; NABIs 5162 and 5385 (5385 has a full wrap for KYW NewsRadio 1060, which is being used as part of a "Free Ride Tuesday" promotion which is somewhat similar to the 25th anniversary promotion that WMATA did for Metrobus last year); Neo artic 7179; ElDorado 4572; and New Flyer 5562 (as of yesterday, this bus had yet to enter revenue service). Among the visiting buses:
* DART First State Gillig Low Floor 101
* NJT D4500 7422 (possibly a Meadowlands unit)
* Maryland Transit Administration NABI #9958
* Greyhound 102DL3 6567
* Krapfs 102DL3 4002 (one of three buses they own which have a w/c lift)
* Martz Prevost Le Mirage XL P583
* Starr Tours Prevost H3-45 168
* 4 school buses from School District of Philadelphia
* A TDH3714 painted in Red Arrow colors
* A T6H4523A formerly in service for Allegany County Transit (Maryland)
BTW, per an NJT trainer, the MCI with the ZF 10 speed transmission is 7618, and is believed to be at Egg Harbor.
One final note, former Mets and Phillies relief pitcher Tug McGraw was the winner of the celebrity roadeo.
Yeah. The SEPTA Roadeo was pretty cool! Hopefully, I can go next year. I got to sit in the drivers seat of my favorite bus in the world!
Over the course of the past few days, there have been rants about the Urban Transit Club (http://www.utcny.org) in which the officers and myself (a member) are quite concerned about. All comments can be made directly by clicking onto the web site to the webmaster or to the officers. The job of webmaster is a time consuming process. It is a lot of work. There is a juggling act of finding time when you have to balance the job with work and school. The original numbers of NYCT Blitz Fishbowls along with serial numbers and non rebuilt (GM Fishbowl and Flxible) renumberings will be posted when the webmaster has the opportunity and time to do so. The next meeting of the UTC will be on Saturday July 13 at the Masonic Hall on W.23rd St. just east of Sixth Ave. at 7:15 PM. Doors open at 6 PM. Why not come to our meeting? After the meeting is over, I know that you will leave with a greater amount of knowledge about the hobby than when you arrived! At the meeting, you can meet the chairman and he will have a printouts of the Blitz renumberings, serial numbers and non Blitzed GM and Flxible renumberings.
I should take some responsibility for some of the comments Bill is referring to. My comments were not meant to criticize the UTC per se, but rather to point out how difficult it must be to compile this info.
Are there any plans for Articulated Buses to come to Brooklyn, anytime soon?
there were but now i have heard the plans are being scrapped again.
On Merrick Road, 6:10 this Monday morning, I saw Academy in action with shuttles from a Jones Beach parking lot to the Bethpage Open. Buses seen were 8600, 8603 (or 8607?) and 5020, plus a white pick-up truck marked Academy. The route is north on the Wantagh Parkway, east on Merrick Road, then north on NY 135. Thirty years ago, the NIMBY folk in Seaford blocked the completion of NY 135 south to an interchange with the Wantagh Parkway and, with the help of Norman Levy, got the route demapped. Result: charter buses use a mile of Merrick Road, and each summer I get a look at NJ private operators. There was a story that LI Bus was going to handle this golf shuttle, but that would have forced the duffers to learn the discomfort of thinly padded seats on LI bus.
This afternoon on Merrick Road, Seaford, there was a parade of golf shuttles (between Bethpage & Jones Beach), about 2-minute headway. Equipment included mostly ordinary Academy highway buses, but also there were at least four of Academy's Rutgers University artics, 2000's. Paradise Trailways of Elmont also helped. Northbound buses were empty (about 4:30 p.m.), and southbound buses carried just a few passengers each, and some southbounds carried none. I'm guessing that there is nowhere near Bethpage to layover the fleet. Joe McMahon
According to the local papers, the route that the buses (and any other commercial traffic) from Jones Beach are taking is : North on Wantagh State Parkway, exit at Merrick Road East (Mandatory for Commercial Vehicles). Proceed east on Merrick Road about a mile to Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway (Rte 135)north and (I'm guessing here) exiting at Powell Avenue and Proceed east into the Park.
Also saw some Academy/Rutgers RTS's on the news last night. Those are probably the shuttles from the Farmingdale LIRR station.
1010 WINS has the above the title as their Monday morning headline. The only good thing about the story is that at least TA itself is not blamed for the slow buses.
http://1010wins.com/topstories/StoryFolder/story_33142695_html heres the url copy and paste and read.
I was hoping some of the out-of-town people who visit this board would search for WINS and find out more about this great city! Not that they go to a story and not that's it.
you lost me. you posted about the story on wins. i only made it easier for people to find it and read it. pretty funny story if you ask me.
Other winners include the Bx35, B63, Q32 and S42! The rason is no bus lanes and cars blocking bus stops! I can back that up on the Q32 alone! The Bx35 has too many small streets..I walked half the Bx35 route from the GWB Bus Terminal to at least Webster Av and E 169th St (I think). So I can also understand the slow on the Bx35 as well.
the b63 has a major double parking problem on fifth avenue. sometimes it takes 25 minutes to get from 86 th steet to 60th street. its only suppose to take 12 minutes.. i drove that line for the better of part of 10 years.
Newsday had an article on the subject as well.
Newsday Article
I dont understand they can say the Q24 is slow, at least not along Atlantic Ave. Well maybe around the Van Wyck. The run under the el is not the Bway el is not that bad either. I guess theyre talking about the Jamaica section since the Q54 and Q56 are included as well.
Q24#5241
Q54#9147
Q56#8123
Just saw channel 2 news at 430 and they had a story about this also.
M96 is the slowest in the city. Q32 S42 BX35 and B63 are among those over the other boroughs.
I can say why the Q32 is so slow. 82 ST gets caught in traffic there.
At times it gets caught for 4-5 lights at Roosevelt. When on Roosevelt Ave there's 1 lane of traffic and at times can be unpassable due to double parked cars. Queens Blvd-rush hour traffic usually. Queensboro Br I do not need to say more. 59/60 St same.
5 Ave/Madison-especially around Christmas with the tree. 32/34 St especially when there's an event at MSG.
Why can't these slow and long routes be shortened?
They should do a DOT Report as well.
#8497 Q32
#5172 M96
#823 B63
#3902 BX35
#6205 S42
Instead of changing the route on the buses, why not do something about traffic? Get rid of the double parked cars and trucks and the buses will move.
I remember years ago there was talk about ending the Q32 at Queensbridge station. I think it did not go through is because it did not make sense to terminate a bus that runs under a subway for most of its run at a subway station.
Straphangers lists the five slowest buses in each borough. All five in Manhattan are slower than any in the other boroughs; I'd like to see more listed in Manhattan.
It comes as no surprise to me that the M86 came in fifth.
I wonder where the M79 came in on that list...
Here is a partial list of Blitz Bus Numbers that I got:
1966 GMC 5303A #5000-5022 are the ex-8000's (see below)
1968 GMC 5305A #5100-5159 are the ex-8800's
1970 GMC 5305A #5200-5284 are the ex-4300/4400's
1972 GMC 5309A #5300-5340/5365-5404 are the ex-6000's and maybe the 4800's
1972 GMC 5310A #5341-5364 are the ex-6100 express buses
1972 GMC 5309A #5500-5527 are the ex-6200/6300's
1973 GMC 5310A #5528-5576 are the ex-4500 and 6900 express buses
Here are some buses actually broken down for you:
5130 ex-8849
5200 ex-4487
5227 ex-4401
5341 ex-6164
5511 ex-4800
5527 ex-6349
5575-5576 ex-4503-4504 (Someone thinks that bus #4504 was renumbered to bus #6957).
Here is a better breakdown of GMC TDH-5303A 1966-1967 buses:
5000 ex-8585 MaBSTOA
5001 ex-8304 MaBSTOA
5002 ex-8323 MaBSTOA
5003 ex-8426 MaBSTOA
5004 ex-8143 NYCTA
5005 ex-8526 MaBSTOA
5006 ex-8545 MaBSTOA
5007 ex-8430 MaBSTOA
5008 ex-8542 MaBSTOA
5009 ex-8610 MaBSTOA
5010 ex-8438 MaBSTOA (Someone else thinks that this bus was #4567)
5011 ex-8050 NYCTA
5012 ex-8591 MaBSTOA
5013 ex-8619 MaBSTOA
5014 ex-8367 MaBSTOA
5015 ex-8568 MaBSTOA
5016 ex-8192 NYCTA
5017 ex-8624 MaBSTOA
5018 ex-8109 NYCTA
5019 ex-8131 NYCTA
5020 ex-8546 MaBSTOA
5021 ex-8613 MaBSTOA
5022 ex-8757 MaBSTOA
Finally, some more notes on NON-Blitz renumberings:
It was the TA's desire to start the 1985 fleet with the number 3900. So, the 1969 Flxible buses #4000-4202 were renumbered #7205-7299 due to the arrival of the 1985 GMC RTS-04 buses #3800-4218. Also, 1969 Flxible buses #4600-4727 were renumbered #7360-7467 due to the future arrival of the TMC RTS-04 buses #4600-4899. The 1971 GMC buses #4300-4499 were renumbered #6350-6449 and then Blitzed to #5200-5284 (15 were scrapped)....I remember that in Queens! QV had a bunch of those buses. That was due to the NEW GMC RTS-06 buses #4300-4599. Also, the 1972 GMC buses #4800-4919 were renumbered #6500-6518...possibly #6559(obviously a bunch was scrapped before the renumbering). Local buses #6200-6349 were renumbered #5500-5510 and #5512-5527 (obviously a bunch was scrapped before the renumbering). Express buses #5528-5571 were renumbered #6900-6947. Express buses #4500-4505 were renumbered #5572-5576.
Please, don't thank me...thank "Barry", "B53Rich" ,"J.L. Guiterrez", "Mike M" and "Bill from Maspeth". You know, I remember making a post about this before BusTalk went on vacation. Check out the BusTalk Archives section! I have printed out everything you guys talk about because THIS IS MY SOURCE! I got everything from "BIG AL's" comments about the Artics to "Q5Merrick" about bus movements! However, this does nt mean that this is the full roster, I'm still waiting for the actual roster from the Urban Transit Club which I guess we will have to wait until July 13th now.
I hope this helps!
Okay, CAS has #142-147, #149-172 and #6142-6326. Now, which one or ones are going to Yukon? The Express and/or local buses?
Proposed changes
1-Combine M14 Avenue C and Avenue D into one branch
2-Minor route adjustment to Bx 40
3-Add limited stop service to S-74 PM rush hours (to be called S-84)
Thank You
Okay, what's up with the "M12" I hear that the M12 was in service. Now, it's the M14A today! Why don't they just called it the M12 and M14C and D the M14?
are these routes listed anywhere? how can I get info on them?
they may not exist but they are listed on Shauns Bus Page:www.geocities.com/nyctbusman2000 just click on destination signs and then on express and you'll see that they are avaliable to be used but not at the moment.
SEPTA actually does the same thing. Some of the newer buses are still programmed with routes no longer in existance, such as the 90 bus between the Civic Center and 3 St/Pine via Walnut & Locust (most of this service is now part of the 12 bus, with limited service to the Civic Center area). I've seen signs on a couple of SEPTA Neoplan that read "90 PHOENIXVILLE" even though I've heard of no such service even on the table.
(BTW, if anyone has a chance to get to the Frankford Transportation Center construction liason office on Pratt St, you can actually pick up a 90 timetable from 1997. You can also find some timetables from as far back as 2 years ago and timetables for routes which have since been eliminated (301 & 302).)
I'm trying to find out if GMC RTS-04 bus #700 was scrapped. Does anybody know that for sure? Thanks!
Nope-700 is still going strong. I have a pic of her on the Q38?!
If you'd like the pic, email me and I'll email it to you.
BTW 700 has NOT been repainted as of yet. Don't be surprised-if you haven't seen it in a while, that's why it may be O/O/S.
Or you can check Triboro Coach Corp at 85 St and 23 Ave in Jackson Heights, NY. Easily accessible via Q33, or M60-to LaGuardia Only!
Also Q48 but only from the Airport-Main St.
Hope this helps you out.
#700 Q38
#739 Q33
#9001 M60
#561 Q48
Which Castleton Depot Orions were sent to Yukon along with there seriel numbers & how many were sent to Yukon.
In addition, does Castleton plan to send more Orions to Yukon.
And how many RTS buses are now at Yukon & are there plans to get rid of the RTS buses at Yukon with Orion buses.
I rode Nova Suburban #9261 on the Q46, the first time I've ever seen one on a regular QV route.
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Q46- RTS #9261
Q55- RTS #9162
9261 was just on the X63 on Friday.
#9261 X63/Q46
Hello all. I have posted this question from time to time and I will give it another shot. Has anyone heard any thing about a new uptodate bus guide? I forget who but someone told me the person behind those guides is not with the MTA any longer. Anyone have any info on this.
Are you referring to the Department of Buses Bus Insiders Guide? If that clarifies the above posting, then maybe some of the b/os on this board would be able to answer that question. As I recall, new editions of DOB's Bus Insiders Guide are printed annually sometime in either late July or early August, but my timeframe may be off a little bit.
I've never heard of this "guide" before. What is it?
Yes it is the Insiders Bus Guide. And they were published annually. They did not put one out last year and I wish I knew who told me that the person that had a lot to do with these guides is not there anymore. Shame they were good publications.
Usually the insiders guides come out around Sept. or October. I've always wondered why they wait till near the end of the year to bring out a guide advertising for that same year.
BIG AL
The Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments has issued a code red ozone advisory for tomorrow. All Metrobuses in Northern Virginia, Montgomery and Prince George's counties. Also, DASH, ART, Fairfax Connector, Ride On, OmniLink, OmniRide, The Bus and Loudoun Commuter buses will be free. The Ride-On buses should be running the following PR reading on the destination sign:
CODE RED-RIDE FREE
On buses with a smaller sign, like the Orion Is, the sign will read CODE RED-FREE
Do any other transit authorities do this when the ozone levels are high?
Yes, New Jersey Transit has this rule and so does Transport of Rockland.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
NJTransit has it!? really!? when does this happen,id sure as hell like to go out to Jersey when it happens
I've heard of an "Ozone Pass" from NJ Transit but I don't know the details.
I've never seen or heard of free rides on NJ Transit (this, of course, does not mean they don't happen!)
The one notable exception was back in August 1999 when the Newark City Subway was shut down for 2 weeks straight while they upgraded the catenary wire. The Monday after, they didn't charge fares on the subway (this was before POP - going downtown, you paid as you boarded. Outbound, you paid as you alighted, except during the afternoon rush hour, when you paid getting on in both directions).
I just care if the damn bus has air conditioning. Alot of drivers (at LI Bus) shut it off and it's not fair. I don't wanna have to report it but will report a bus to Mitchell if A/C is not on when the temp is at 80F or higher.
I agree with 110% "Qtraindash7" but understand one thing though....bus drivers can get sick sitting in a cold bus and then once in a while go outside in the heat. I knew a bus driver who was sick for a month (July 4th to August 4th) due to a head cold and a fever. Remember, I agree but bus drivers are probably thinking about their health.
They should also realize that upper respiratory infections are caused by airborne bacteria, and NOT temperature changes.
Not here (chuckle) on LI. Heck buses without A/C are plentiful, even on brutal 90 degree days. LI Bus isn't always too keen on A/C, so pax sweat so buses can move faster.
They better have it tomorrow, it is going to hit 90 degrees (except for those lucky south shore folks).
I know I'll be able to fry my eggs on Sea Cliff avenue tomorrow for breakfast.
Until next time...from LI's hot spot
The free rides are not being given upon account of the heat, its the heat combined with the humidity and lack of precipitation. If we could have free rides every day it is hot, then the whole summer would be free, as well as alot of the spring and fall.
They calculate it using an "air quality index" which factors in such things has smog and UV exposure in addition to the standard variables you mentioned. If it reaches a certain threshold, it's declared Code Red. I grit my teeth because the District of Columbia refuses to extend the program to Metrobuses in the city despite having the largest proportion of low-income residents who might not otherwise ride the bus in heat conditions. It's the only major jurisdiction in the region that doesn't participate, despite having the higher temperatures and stuffier, stagnant air of a city.
C
I can't find where on the COG website they explain how they determine the air quality index. Go to http://www.dpwt.com/TransSvcDiv/airquality.htm for an explanation of all the codes and http://www.mwcog.org/dep/air/airquality_index.htm for the forecast.
DC is often the last of the three jurisdictions to start putting in money to a program like the code red ride free. I also think it is because they only have so much money and to spend that much money on free buses is not feasible for them.
i was looking at the nyct roster and noticed a few errors. yukon still has 3920, and 4463 in service. there might be others, but didnt notice today, will look tonorrow.
According to the Transitalk bus roster, all RTS except 8293-8316 have been scrapped!
i am sorry to say, the transittalk roster is incorrect.
I saw the updated Transitalk NYCT Depot by Depot dated June 7th & I have a few questions.
When the new 100th St Depot opens on September 8th & when both the M101 & M103 buses leave Manhattanville for 100th St, what routes will take it's place at Manhattanville for those 2 lost routes as well as what routes will also take it's place at Michael J. Quill Depot also on September 8th when both the M86 & M102 routres leave for 100th St.
In addition, when the new Coliseum Depot opens in 2003, where depot will both the M100 & M104 buses be assigned to IF Amsterdam closes.
I think (but don't take my word, these are rumors) that the M104 will to to Quill. I do not know where the M100 would go, but I am going to take a guess and say either 126th or MCH. Some depot is closing on September 8, I think it might be Hudson Pier, so those routes will be redistributed.
Is the M79 staying at Quill and if so, why?
Well, really this is up to the Transitalk webmaster..." The TOR-nado" can answer one of your questions. When the 100th St Bus Depot opens, the Hudson Pier Bus Depot will close. All the bus routes from Hudson will most likely go to Michael J. Quill Bus Depot. The excpetion would be the Q32 which could go to Casey Stengel Bus Depot in Flushing, Queens. When Colisuem Bus Depot opens, the Amsterdam Bus Depot will close and the M104 will go to Michael J. Quill. As for the M100, I'm not sure. As for the Manhattanville Bus Depot losing the M101 and M103, I'm not sure what routes wil replace them. Maybe "The TOR-nado" can fill you in on that. I hope that helps. However, I must stress to you....what I have given you CAN CHANGE! So, this info could be wrong...keep that in mind!
Has anyone heard that when the new Maspeth Bus Depot opens in a few years, what routes (as of this moment) will be assign to this depot & if this can be added to Transitalk NTCT Depot by Depot.
In addition to Transitalk NYCT Depot by Depot, can someone add on the B8 going to Jackie Gleason (09/08) & both the B8 & B40 leaving ENY (also 09/08)
Whatever will happen will happen when it happens. Asking the same question every week won't change the answers, nor will it make things happen any sooner.
David
What is the logic of listing routes to be assigned to a specific depot especially if construction hasn't started yet?
Saw her on the Bx7 at Bway and 230th Street. Still had on the QV logos and in the original TA paint scheme.
Bx7#3933
Well, that means that QV has begun using it's express bus fleet in full force now! When are those Orion VII Hybrids coming? Should they be here at anytime?
Well currently there is a Orion VII HEV demo running around the Toronto Transit Commission, I can almost guarantee that, that is the MTA's demo, I guess whenever the TTC is done with it, it'll go back to Orion for modifications and then probably head this way, but as for the production units, we're talking well into 2003 before we see a bunch.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
You saw it WHERE???????
And I just shot that son-of-a-b***h over at the Queens Village LIRR Station a few weeks ago...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
I saw her while looking out the window of my #1 train at Bway and 230th. At that time still had the QV logos and in original paint scheme.
Bx7#3933
I heard that QV sent the following to KB: 3933, 3951, 3954, 3981 & 4175.
One leash for 5 dogs. Sounds like a plan.
If they are the only means of going upstate, they should at least allow people to use their Metrocard transfers from bus or subways.
Unlike the MSBA, Bee Line is not owned or managed by the MTA, but by the county government. The City of New York does not authorize their routes. Unless Westchester county says to the MTA 'we want in', it will not happen.
-Hank
Isn't Bee Line & Liberty the same company ?
The Liberty express routes to Manhattan are part of the nycDOT system & the buses have fareboxes in them. They also take dollar bills.
Mr rt__:^)
Bee-Line is the Westchester County Government's marketing identity for its transit services. Bee-Line is funded by Westchester County and operated on contract by Liberty Lines.
The Liberty Lines Express buses you see in NYCDOT operation are the same as Bee-Line insofar as they are two separate contracts handled by the same company - Liberty Lines Inc.
Buses in LL-operated Bee-Line service are owned by Westchester County and buses in LL-operated NYCDOT service are owned by the City of New York. They are not interchangible as these are two totally unique "projects" of Liberty Lines.
I should add to this that the proof is in the fareboxes. LLI 3000-series Classics for use on NYCDOT express lines have the MTA/NYCDOT Metrocard (Cubic) fareboxes. All of the buses used on Bee-Line services, including the MCI coaches, have GFI fareboxes per the county's specs.
Right, We still see some of those big tokens from Bee Lines at this depot. Also see somne from Sufolk County LI. Don't know why folks who have them in their pocket would put them in our fareboxes. Are they brain dead or just making a one way trip out of town ?
Mr rt__:^)
Liberty Lines is a contract operator, ala Command or Queens Surface. AFAIK, all of the BxM routes operated by Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service, EXCEPT the BxM4C, are NYCDOT franchise routes, like the private lines in Queens. Westchester County uses 'Bee Line' the way NYCT uses 'New York City Bus'. If Atlantic Express were to operate transit service in Westchester County, it would still be the Bee Line.
-Hank
Actually Liberty Lines are two seperate companies.
Liberty Lines Express Inc. operates the NYCDOT bus routes under contract to the City of New York
Liberty Lines Transit Inc. operates the lines under contract from the Westchester Department of TRansportaion . They use the name "Bee Lines" to market their system.
IF THE County of Westchester wants the MTA to take over the operation of Bee Line then Liberty Lines Transit Inc and all other bus companies which have contract with Westchester County will be out of business.
Thank You
No, Liberty Lines Inc will become like Queens Surface, where they could charge their 1.40 fares off peak (of course transfers would have to be free)
It is hard to belive the inconsistent way that the TA assigns its route numbers to the buses. Please note the following examples:
LIMITED STOPS-In all boros except Staten Island the TA does not change the route number on routes which have both limited and all stop service. But in Staten Island the TA gives Limited Stop service a differnt route number from the all stop service
ROUTE STREET NUMBERS-In Manhattan the crosstown routes have the same number as the streets they basically operate on but the avenue routes do not. why is it good fro crosstown routes and not for north/south routes. Yet in the other boros the TA has never changed a route number especially in the Bronx and Brooklyn where 99% of local bus service is operated by the TA
DUAL SERVICE-In Manhattan the TA has given different route numbers to several routes that have different destinations ie M27/M50,M96/M106 and in the Bronx BX40/BX42. These three routes all have one thing in common they share one terminal. The M16/M34 also is in the classification even though they do not share a terminal. Yet the TA will not make this change to the M14,BX 16,Q1,Q5,Q46,Q85,B17,B38,B41 and S42. These routes are also similar each share one common terminal but have 2 different branches.
SAME NUMBER ON LOCAL AND EXPRESS ROUTES-The TA went to great pain to eliminate duplicate bus routes numbers in the past 25 years. Yet we have the Q 20A and Q20B now we have in Brooklyn B-37 and X-37 which even opearte on the same street for a very short distance, the B-38 and the X-38 and in Staten Island the x-42 and the S 42. At one time the TA made sure that the local and express route numbers did not conflict.
Does any body know what is going on with the Department of Buses\
Thank You
DUA
I agree with you on that but I'm sure that the usual response would be that the MTA has no idea what it's doing.
Route numbering schemes are the domain of the Department of the Executive Vice President's Division of Operations Planning, specifically the Route & System Planning group, not the Department of Buses.
Of course, that doesn't answer the question as to the "logic" behind the route numbering schemes...if I had an answer I'd provide it :-)
David
Limited stops: Agreed.
Route street numbers: In the 80's and early 90's, most crosstowns were renumbered after their streets of operation. That can't really be done on a large scale with the north-south routes: most of them operate on different streets northbound and southbound, and most of the numbers are already taken. M1 on 1st Avenue? Taken. M2 on 2nd Avenue? Taken. M3 on 3rd Avenue? Taken. M4 on Park Avenue South (I suppose)? Taken. M5 on 5th Avenue? It is. M6 on 6th Avenue? It is. M7 on 7th Avenue? It is, for about a mile. M8 on 8th Avenue? Taken. M9 on 9th Avenue? Taken. M10 on 10th Avenue? Taken. M11 on 11th Avenue? Taken, and there's no 11th Avenue bus anyway. M12 on 12th Avenue? No bus there.
Dual service: At least in the case of your Manhattan examples, all of these resulted from the 80's renumbering: one branch of the M27 became the M50 while the other was left alone; one branch of the M19 became the M96 while the other was left alone (and later renumbered M106); one branch of the M16 became the M34 while the other was left alone. The M14 wasn't renumbered in the 80's, so no other route number was left behind. It seems like the TA is generally willing to split such routes only when one of the routes is being renumbered anyway.
Same number on local and express routes: I don't see the problem with this. Look at the prefix. Both the M60 and the Q60 run in Queens; does that confuse anyone?
[Does any body know what is going on with the Department of Buses\]
don't think they even know.
Wayne
Since there is overcrowding at the 5 Brooklyn Bus Depots & since relieve is not expected in these 5 depots until 2005 when the new Maspeth Bus Depot opens.
I believe in order to relieve the bus parking overcrowding at the 5 Brooklyn Bus Depots, the Crosstown Bus Depot should be reopen temporary as a operating depot until 2005 when Maspeth opens & move the painting facility at Crosstown to Zerega Av or East New York & pave the outside parking for buses.
Will the Department of Buses consider reopening Crosstown as a temporary depot until Maspeth opens or if the Department of Buses hs plans to reopen Crosstown temporary or if anyone has heard about this, please post all the information you have.
Reopening Crosstown Depot will not really do anything. Crosstown only held about 85 buses when it was opened. It is also in the wrong part of Brooklyn.
The depots that have accute storage problems are East New York,Flatbush and Ulmer Park
Until the CMF is moved out of East New York then you will be able to relieve the storage problems of the Brooklyn Division and that will not happen until the Maspeth facility is opened
Thank You
Crosstown is indeed a small facility. However, opening a depot in northern Brooklyn/southwestern Queens, as NYCT is planning to do, benefits the system by allowing a reorganization of routes. Routes that serve both southern and northern Brooklyn can be operated out of Maspeth instead of (say) East New York or Gleason, thereby allowing other routes to be moved around and easing overcrowding in depots all over the Brooklyn system. Final decisions have not been made as to which routes will be moved where (heck, the building that was on the Maspeth site is still there and has to be knocked down before a new depot can even be constructed!).
David
David,
The runs that are going to be assigned to the new Maspeth Depot in my opinion only are the B24(ex Crosstown),B39(ex Crosstown),B48(ex Crosstown),Q54,Q59(ex Crostown as the B-59) from Fresh Pond Depot and the B-43(ex Crosstown part as B-62,ex East New York part as B-47) and
B-61(ex Crosstown) from Jackie Gleason.
I really do not see any current East New York lines being assigned to the new Maspeth Depot. East New Yorks contribution will be the Central Maintance Facility which will be moved to Maspeth
As regards to Ulmer Park and Flatbush it is too early to speculate what will happen until the DOB determines whats going to happen in those depots. ie all express in Ulmer Park,all articulated in Flatbush
Until that is determined it does not pay to speculate because they are many things that can be done.
Thank You
"Until that is determined it does not pay to speculate because they are many things that can be done."
I couldn't agree more. In fact, I resolve to cease answering "Busfan"'s questions, because, I've noticed, he or she starts topic after topic after topic, then doesn't respond to anything anybody writes about them, and then sometimes posts the same question again a week later. I have the feeling he or she doesn't read the answers, so what's the point? Anyone "follo" me?
David
Obviously he didn't read my post #47737 either!
I agree David! I would just ignore "Busfan" altogether.
So wait, Maspeth will be an operating depot IN ADDITION to CMF?
Yup...depot and CMF.
David
I spotted this bus on Monday, June 10, at approximately 5 pm working the X64 and heading eastbound on 57th Street. The bus sported Jamaica Depot logos. Was this the first day that the new MCI's were in passenger service?
Most likely because Jamaica got alot of MCI buses. Buses #2850-2853, #2855-2856, #2859 and buses #2861-2868. That series goes up to bus #2878.
I spotted MCI #2859 running on the X64 along Queens Blvd yesterday afternoon(June 10th) at around 6:10pm. I was sitting in the old 1988 Queens Surface MCI coach right next to it. It looked so majestic. I wish Queens Surface would get some of those!!! Any chance of the NYCDOT getting some cruisers for the privates???
QSC just got a load of new buses. The other private companies need new buses more desperately than QSC does.
That's correct & they will be .....
Thurston,
Do you know what kind of buses they are and how many
Thank You
No sorry I don't, but I'll ask and maybe they'll tell me.
I am a rider of the QM1A Wall Street Express, where MCI Classics are a fixture (mostly in the morning). I was speaking to a driver about two weeks ago, and I was told that the NYCDOT sent the MCI D4500's to New York Bus Service instead of Queens Surface becuase the D4500's couldn't fit through the buswash at Queens Surface. I was also told that the MCI Classics would be around for a while and were gonna be shipped back to Canada to be rebuilt and extend their lifespans.
If any refutes or can back up this up or has additional information it could be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Tony
QSC 952 Wall Street
QSC 574 North Shore Towers
So are they going to change the seats and add a W/C Lift too?
Well this afternoon I rode a Classic #939 on QM1 Wall St Express and I can't not even turn on the damn reading light and the damn bell was not working and I had to end up telling the driver Netx Stop so like that I could get off at main st
QM1 MCI Classic #939
On a side note. What time you ride the Wall St Express?
I had bus 939 this morning, the bus driver mad every stop just to make sure anyone that had to get off didn't miss their stop because of the non-functioning bell.
P.S. I usually catch the bus at between 8:15 and 8:25 at Parsons and Union Turnpike (gotta be at work by 9:15)
Tony
QM1 Wall St. Exp
Queens Surface should just placed that bus OOS. I was on it at about 1:37 Today from Battery Place Stop on the QM1.
How do you look like most of the time?
Worse yet, I'm sure they will put in series 50's. Pretty soon, the entire sound of classic busing (DD 6 cylinder) wil be gone forever. We'll just be riding things that look like buses but sound like trucks or cars.
They want to refurbish the MCI Classics??????? It just gets worse and worse. Why cant the DOT just buy new buses? The Orion V's are a piece of junk! I do not know what is worse, the configuration of the seats or the bus itself. I see them breaking down all the time on the Queens Surface express routes. I ride the QM1A(3rd ave. express) everyday and would love to see some MCI D4500's Cruisers on our lines. All I heard is that there was a Demonstrator coach at the QS Depot a while a go but that is all. Another passenger told me that we would be getting some of the Cruisers. I dont know who or what to believe.
Another question....what is with using the local transit Orions on the express routes?? I dont pay $3.00 a trip to sit on a hard seat for an hour!! Last week...3 days in a row bus #'s 4XX were being used on the express routes! It is getting out of control!
QM1A - # you name it, I have riden it!
A previous post addressed this issue, but the subject was Triboro Coach, and the same reason applies to Queens Surface. They can't just cancel a trip just because there isn't an Orion Suburban with plush seats. They have to fill in with what's availible whether it be a an Orion V Transit bus (39x-499), Orion V Suburban (500-580??) or a Nova RTS-06 (294-3xx). They have to make do with what they have. Besides, you aren't paying $3.00 just for a fluffy seat, your paying to get quickly from Manhattan to Queens.
Ok first off 294-389 are TMC Buses Not Novas. They are 1994 models.
Secondly, I do not think the MCI Classics are junk. They're reliable buses but I do say that their 1 weakpoint is that they do not have a wc lift.
The "ONIONS" at QSC are far more better than that of Triboro Coach and Green Lines. At least QSC limits their use of their Suburbans on local lines unlike Triboro-uses 3000s on lines such as the Q18 Q19A Q19B Q29 Q33 Q38 Q39 Q45 and Q47 like it's going out of style. And 736 runs on the QM12?! The 3000s at TCC are now pretty delapidated looking-seats windows interior exterior engine-you name it-it's messed up at Triboro.
Green's "Onions" are not much better. However, they are a tad higher up than Triboro because of the Bright Orange Signs. Other than that-missing seats marked up windows and seats, slashed seats dirty looking interior and exterior.
I sure hope Triboro and Green get taken over by the MTA-they sure need it.
#2137 Q18
#1171 Q60
#363 Q104
ONIONS oops I mean Orions-Buses that'll bring tears to your eyes!
#5535 Q60
Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I actually like the MCI classic coaches. The Orions are what I think are junk! If you ask me, that is the worst purchase the NYCDOT could have made(or probably the cheapest, in the case of the DOT). Not a day goes by that I do not see at least 2-3 of the Orions broken down somewhere along the express bus route. The seating is lousy, whoever designed it obviously was thinking that everyone is 4 feet tall. The seats that face sideways are so short that you are constantly sliding off your seat. The A/C has 2 positions, HI and OFF. The bus swings more than the Great American Scream Machine.
And what is with that noise when the bus is between bumps? Has anyone else noticed this?? It sounds like someone is pressing down on a huge Snapple bottle cap.(especially when there are people sitting in the front and in the back, but not in the middle) Sometimes I think the bus is going to split in two!! What is the bus constructed of...cheap aluminium?
As far as the MCI classics go...they are a gem compared to the Orions! Seating is comfortable, yeah...they are a bit slow and the A/C could be a bit more powerful(dont sit all the way in the back on a hot day...you will fry) but...they get the job done comfortably.
As far as your comment on the wheelchair lifts, I have riden the QM1A everyday for the past almost 4 years and have yet to see a disabled person on a wheelchair board an express bus. I do not think it is necessary to have every express bus equipped with a wheelchair lift. As Queens Surface states on their website, reserve a wheelchair equipped bus 24 hours in advance by calling them.
Federico
"... wheelchair lifts ... (in) past almost 4 years and have yet to see a disabled person on a wheelchair board an express bus ... As Queens Surface states on their website, reserve a wheelchair equipped bus 24 hours in advance by calling them."
But that's not the law which all the old MICs are technically in violation of. We do our best to "schedule" a wheel chair equiped Orion for our regulars who need them. At some point nycDOT will have to replace them all. Meanwhile, as I've said before, QSC has spend some serious money on all the 900s to get a few more miles of service out of them.
Mr rt__:^)
I understand perfectly if one of the Orion Suburbans are out of service. It happens(especially with the Orions, they are constantly breaking down). But to be on 57th street 3 days in a row, waiting for the 6th ave. express and see about 10 3XX-4XX numbered buses running on the express bus routes is ridiculous.
Yes, the $3.00 is for an express ride between Queens and Manhattan(which many times is more like a turtle run cause the traffic lights on Queens Blvd are always out of sync, but that is another discussion I have to take up with the DOT) but at the same times, I would like to get to work and back home without my back hurting from sitting an hour in a hard seat!
It just really pisses me off that because Queens Surface is franchised by the DOT that we get shortchanged when it comes to buses. I mean, why does the MTA get brand spankin new MCI Cruisers to run on the X63, X64, etc. when most of their run is on routes that have subways readily available???? Sorry...just does not make sense to me.
Northeastern Queens just gets shortchanged with everything!
Federico
Because it's not the same tax dollars, and they don't run where subways are readily available.
-Hank
It's nice to get the plush seat, but if it's not available... by all means send that hard-seater.
Wayne
"All I heard is that there was a Demonstrator coach at the QS Depot a while a go but that is all."
We had both a MCI & RTS express demos here for a few weeks. The RTS just sat in the corner of the yard, but the MCI made trips on most of our express routes, serveys were taken & passed on to nycDOT.
nycDOT is bound to buy CNG, what was here was a "clean diesel", BUT NJT has some CNG versions in service & DOT has spoken to them about the equipment. Current status ... I have no idea, just being a worker here.
P.S. the way the wheel chair lift works may scare you if you're afraid of heights.
Mr rt__:^)
Cruisers went to NY Bus because Aragoni wanted them. There's more to the story, but that's the short answer. There was also two or four other express buses he tryed that ended up at Green I think.
Who is Aragoni?
The Pres. of NY Bus Service.
I heard from a NYBS superviser that they will be getting 40 foot MCI Cruisers. I would imagine the rest of the DOT companies will eventually see 40 foot MCI Cruisers.
Peace,
Kevin
www.transitalk.org
"... becuase the D4500's couldn't fit through the buswash at Queens Surface ..."
I was told that the Cruiser got washed & hand dryed just fine BECAUSE it's about the same height as the Orions.
So much for imformed sources !
BTW: was looking at the photos I took of the MCI/RTS pair that was here last night ... have to scan them & give them to Dave.
Mr rt__:^)
>>>So much for imformed sources !<<
Don't you mean inFOAMED sources. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Thanks for the information Thurston. Do you know why Queens Surface hasn't recieved the Cruisers in addition to NYBS?
Much Thanks,
Tony
1st because NY Bus Service pushed nycDOT for them ... there is more to the story, but it's politicas, so I'll keep quite on it.
2nd because QSC did a major O/H on it's MCI Classic fleet (with the knowlegde that a decission wasn't on the immediate horizon about new bus purchases).
nycDOT has been looking at what's available, in CNG express buses.
I just returned from shea stadium. CS now has 3 different types of buses,the 3 Vikings the Orions and now 1 MCI \Cruiser # 2869. Looks like 2869-2878 might be going to CS.
Really? So, the MTA is changing again. I was told that buses #2850-2878 were going to Jamaica. However, nobody knows!!!
I think I recall (but I may be wrong) someone saying that a couple of buses that were slated for Jamaica were at QV and CS for training purposes.
D4501 #2851 - X63 Midtown
2869 is there for training purposes ONLY! I saw it while I was on the boardwalk today. She will go to Jamaica once all of the drivers have been trained. CS is slated to get 2896-2907. 2908-2924 will be going to UP.
2879-2895 will be going to QV.
I assume that there's a 28xx from Jamaica at QV for the same reason.
#2879 x68
PS 5508 has went back home-126 St?!
2870 and 2874 seen at piscataway nj on 6/10/02. they may already be at jamaica.
New Flyer D60HF Articulated #5508 is back at Gun Hill Depot; I've seen it running on the Bx4 line the other day...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Jamaica received 2856 & 2870-2874 on Monday, and 2859-2868 last Thursday and Friday. Since then, 2865 and 2867 went to QV to join 2853 for training and 2869 went straight to CS for training there. It should be noted that these buses are JAMAICA buses and will return there once QV and CS receive their allotment.
Meanwhile, JAM sent Novas 9250-9264 over to QV and QV scrapped their 1982 coaches (PA1751, PA1767 and PA1852) and 1986 RTS PA4328. Next on the QV scrap heap are 3914, 3946, 3958, 3978, 4335 and 4343. Queens Ville also moved a bunch of 1985 RTS's to KB, which has previously been discussed on this board.
Just for the record JAM scrapped 4563, 4573, 4578, 4583, 4597, with 3824, 4128, 4217, 4218, 4349 and BIG AL's favorite, 4580, to possibly follow.
Mark
PA1852 LIVES!!!! It's in Quill service along with 4883, also from QV.
Mark
What 3900s are left in service at QV? Has anybody seen any of them on QV Routes recently? I knew that the 4300s were disappearing from their routes but now the 3900s. I did see 3954 3959 3976 4332 4334 on the A shuttle on 6-1. Too bad about 1751 and 1767. Oh well!
So now there are 2 1982 RTS Suburban Coaches left. Which 1 will be the last? I say 1852 from MJQ.
#3949 Q46
#1852 M30
"Q5Merrick" you da man! Thanks for the info! NOw, I know that this is all true because you are from Jamaica...but bus #1767 is scrapped? I'm going to miss that flagship bus. It was QV's sole survivor from 1982 and NEVER left QV for a different depot. Unlike buses #1759-1766 that were scattered around Ulmer Park, Castleton and Yukon. Thanks again!
P.S. DO you know when the Orion VII Hybrids are coming for QV and MCH IF they are going to those depots?
RTS # 4349 has been assigned to 126th Street. The bus was parked on the apron in front of the depot when I got to work yesterday. Great, now we're getting Jamaica's rejects! Q5 Merrick or Big Al, can you guys give me any insight about this bus? Is it at least halfway decent or should it be laying on it's side out at Nimco? In the over 10 years that I've been at 126 this is the first time I can remember us getting a bus in from Queens Division.
I would imagine that the bus has some life left in it and has a low number of road calls. You will probably have that bus for a short amount of time. I expect FP to get a few from QV. FP 3986, I am told is being stripped.
I guess the 3900s are getting their final rights.
#3990 Q88
Man, I hope QV don't be dumping their trash over here. Its bad enough FP has the 3918(I haven't seen this one in awhile), 3919, 3921, 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997(the worst!) and the 4600's/4700's. If anything, send them $hits to KB, FP isn't low on buses, so we don't need anymore coming from other depots, unless its to replace the ones we have.
I want Gun Hill's 9229-9249.
-
Q55- RTS #9148(rode)
B26- RTS #4700!(seen, sad isn't it?)
Hahaha , man i remember #s 3986, 3987, 3995, 3997 when they were at ENY . I used to hate em. The climate control was always off when we drove em .they were so slow , I believe we started scrapping some of the slowest over three years ago . I think we had the 396,something to 4007 . The 7 4000s were nicer till we had to give to Ulmer .
Personal Opinion: I expect a few QV 3900's to come to FP temporarily. It won't take FP too long to run them into the ground! After a few stints on the B57, the suspensions will be shot! They lived the good life at QV, had fairly good maintance, and had low mileage compared to Brooklyn Division 1985's. That's why such a large group of 1985's have for survived so long.
Okay, its a proven fact that 85'GMC's are treated the best by the Queens Division. However the Brooklyn & Bronx Division treated them terrible, remember the 4200's in FP?
Most of the 3900's have always been in QV, but some 4100's like 4175, and 4198 came from KB. I really hope the 4045(originally from KB) doesn't make its way to FP. The 3997 is bad enough...
most of the 3900's (3900-3984) began their lives in casey stengel(flushing) for several years before bouncing around a bit
Bus 4045 started its life at ENY, not KB. In 1991, it was moved to JG where it spent most of its life.
Mark
I rode it once on the Q17 and thought it was a pretty good bus for a 1986 RTS. Most of those are pretty lazy to take off. Glad she was saved from the great bus yard in the sky...for now.
#4349 M57
Bus 4349 is not the only JAM reject to head to 126th St. Buses 3824, 4127-4130 and 4556 either have or are set to cross the Triboro Bridge.
There is no sign of 4580. I hope for 126th Street's sake that BIG AL's least favorite bus is in the scrap yard.
***IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT JAMAICA'S 4500's (4554-4599) HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE 16 YEAR LIFE SERVING SE QUEENS. SORRY TO SEE THEM GO.***
4580 was or is indeed a dog of a dog! It should have been scrapped years ago. In regards to Q5Merrick's comment:***IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT JAMAICA'S 4500's (4554-4599) HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE 16 YEAR LIFE SERVING SE QUEENS. SORRY TO SEE THEM GO.***
If you tell that to some of the Jamaica depot operators, make sure you have your running sneakers on. LOL
BIG AL
Boy, this will make "DH60F" really happy to hear! LOL!
Oh yeah, Orion V 93087, I'm absolutely thrilled to hear this news! :^) It's just what we neeed at 126. More garbage!
Thanks for the update Q5Merrick. It shows you how low on the depot food chain 126 is! Instead of a bus depot we're becoming a dumping ground for ancient decrepit RTS's. I'll keep everyone posted on what gems make their way over the Triboro.
Good news DHF60. 4349 is actually a very good bus. Very fast. It used to be slow as you-know-what a few years ago but a little over a year ago it received a major overhaul. I don't know what they did to it but it was one of the fastest 4000's Jamaica had the final year I was at Jamaica depot. I would always ask for it if I had a choice of only 4000's to pick from in the yard. The only other two 4000 series buses I would pick before taking 4349 was 4584 and the late 4216.
BIG AL
P.S. 4584 is the best 4000 I have ever driven. If it winds up at your depot, ask for it if it's available. You won't be disappointed.
Thanks for the news Big Al. As long as the bus has some balls then it will be tolerable to drive. It'll be a few days before it's on the road. 126 maintenance usually goes over any bus received from another depot very carefully and repairs anything that may be wrong with it.
I'll keep what you said about 4584 in mind and will request the bus if it makes it's way here.
Bad news for Jamaica operators. Bus 4580 was running (if you want to call it that) on the Q85 today.
For you Bronx guys, after spending 11+ years in 126th St and QV, bus 4304 has returned to KB. You will recall, buses 4300-4357 were originally delivered to KB way back in 1986. Also, another ex-KB bus, 3562, has come back. However, this bus was originally assigned to Walnut (now closed).
Mark
Anyone know if there is anything new in terms of bus models comning out in the near future? i know Corgi is making another NYC bus in the bus colors, but anything else comning out?
B3-#9318-NOVABUS
B64-#4859-TMC RTS06
Haven't heard of anything new. Corgi, as you mentioned, will be coming out with a two-tone blue NYCTA bus, also a 4507 done up as the bus on which the Rosa Parks story happened....and a Brooklyn PCC in the silver and green.
i widh the artic buses would come out in models
Does anyone have pictures on an artist's renderning on what the new Maspeth Bus Depot/CMF II will look like when completed.
If anyone has a pictures, please post it.
Well today I rode the B100. Here's the buses I saw on the B100.
GM RTS #356,#360
TMC RTS CNG #4978
TMC RTS CNG Suburban #4903
I rode #360 and #4903. I did not see any Orions on the B100 today. I was there around 12-1 PM
Questions
1. When I most likely to see a Orion on the B100?
2. Why #4978 still got 1x2 Seating?
3. How often a RTS Suburban is on the B100?
Thanks for reading this!
B100 GM RTS #360
B100 TMC RTS CNG Suburban #4903
You'll basically never see a Orion on the B100. TMC RTS T80-206 CNG Suburbans are regular to the B100 as are the ex-MTA CNGS (8398/4976, 8399/4977, and 8567/4978), and the GMC RTSs.
So you can kill the hunt for the CNG Orions on the B100 unless Command has a SERIOUS bus shortage!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I'll take a whack:
1) Very rarely, I see one from time to time, and I should know since the route passes by very close to me. But one hour of looking is nowhere near enough time to have a decent chance at seeing one, if you stand out there for a month though, you'll most definitely see at least one.
2) 4978 is an ex- MTA CNG bus, so the seating layout is similar to all other MTA buses.
3) I'd say that on the rush hours suburbans are as numerous as the RTSs. On weekends however, I only see primarilly GMC RTSs.
4903 is on the B100 almost everdyday. The last time I saw Command's Bus assignment list it was picked for the B100. Reason being it is one of the slowest TMC RTS that Command has and nobody that drives the express wants it. I have seen Orions and MCIs on the B100. They usually show up when a driver who is running off from his run is asked to cover a trip or do some overtime. Also it can happen via the result of a bus change since the BM1 finishes in the same area as the B100.
Peace,
Kevin
www.transitalk.org
I heard that starting in September when ENY loses both the B8 & the B40 routes that about 30 to 40 buses will be transferred out of ENY.
Can anyone confirm this, if ENY is losing about 30 to 40 buses, which depot(s) will they be assigned to, how many will that depot(s) received & which buses (seriel numbers) are leaving ENY.
Where is the B8 and B40 Lines going??
The B40 is disappearing.
It and the B78 will become the B47.
Why is the B40 leaving the system?? And why is the B78 changing to the B47? It doesn't make any sense.
I think the B40 and B78 are being combined to form the B47. I heard that it will be similar to the B46.
-
If you're a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
I 30% BusFan and 70% RailFan.
A little off topic, if your a subway fan, then Ridgewood rocks! The R42's never gets tiring on the (M) & (L) line, plus we're getting the the R143's, Fresh Pond depot/yard will finally have something new in it.
BTW the (C)rappy line stinks, its a cheap version of the (A) line
-
R40 Slant/R42/R143 Subfan.
Coming soon- R143 M-Train
Let's bring this over to SubTalk, shall we, you crossed the Line talking about the C Line!, LOL!
Well, I've got to make a handle first. Look for me as R143 L-Train, like from Transitalk.
You can't do that. Your BT handle will work on ST as well.
Dammit, I stuck with the same sub handle. Oh well it was worth a try. Going to subtalk with a busfan's handle doesn't feel right.
You can use the your Handle now over there, or do you want to have a more railfan like handle?
Man, Subtalk loads too damn slow, its such a big board that has over 1,000 messages, I'll probably never find anything that I post.
You can change the setting of how many mesaages displayed, on my computer it says 588 messages displayed in the Last Day.
As a TA train operator, we do not want the R143's, but it looks like we'll be stuck with them. One person train operation (which I have safety concerns with) is coming to the M weekend shuttles on 9/8/02. You better get used to the doors not opening as soon as the train stops since the t/o has to do it. Same goes for a slight delay in the train moving once the doors close since the t/o has to constantly get up and down off his seat then observe the platform for door operation.
the B47 is gonna start at some hospital near Broadway,run on Ralph Av like the B40 does now then run on another street before it can get to the B78 portion of Ralph Av.I hope it'll stop at Sutter Av-Rutland Rd.
That way i can take the 1/3 train when i go to Kings Plaza again in that direction.
It will start at Woodhull Hospital (named for Williamsburg founder Richard Woodhull) at Flushing Avenue and Broadway and go along the B40 route to St. Johns Place. There it will continue south on Ralph (the section of the B40 east of there will be abandoned), then it will run to East 98th and pick up the B78 route from the beginning all the way to Kings Plaza.
Why is it that when in other boroughs routes get split for efficiency (M101/2/3, M10/20, M100/Bx7), but in Brooklyn they get combined into inefficiently long routes? There's no need to create another Broadway-Kings Plaza route. I liked the old idea to reroute the B78 along the B7 reroute and extend the B5 to Remsen Avenue to replace the B7. Wouldn't have been as bad as that monstrosity the B82.
OCCUPIED BROOKLYN GETS SCREWED AGAIN
How did you know about the B-5 and B-7 changes
Thank You
You posted them on Bustalk before.
You have a great memory
Thank you for recalling them
so when the b40 stop running on Liberty av and penn av. What bus will continue it route there. The b45 could continue the the 40 route to penn av?
The B40 along Liberty is close enough to the B12 along Flatlands Neck Road.
Sorry, that part of East New York Avenue wasn't part of the Flatlands Neck Road, which ended at the Hunterfly Road.
There is no such route as the B5.
they was a B5 out of Ukmer Park Until around 1997 or 98 it was merge with the B50 out of Eny to make the B82 why i don't know
#7514 B82
The merge was in 1995.
I am well aware that there used to be a B5, but I was responding to a poster who said there is a B5 today.
I never said such a thing. I even specifically mentioned the B82.
you misunderstood that.is not that the B40 is leaving and the B78 is changing,both routes are gonna get combined into 1 whole route to become the B47.Most likely it leave from Flatbush Depot.the B8 is gonna leave from Jackie Gleason Depot from what i know.The B40 route along Ralph Ave is underused meaning,very few people ride the bus along that route.so i guess in hopes of bringing more people to ride the bus along that section of Ralph Ave,they're gonna combine it with the B78 so it can run to Kings Plaza.Hopefully like that,people along the B40 portion of Ralph will get on more.On a similar note,the B13 and B18 are gonna be combined as well.a spot or 2 thats served by the B18 will be discontinued.this route will retain the B13 name.it'll start at the B13's terminal northern terminal,which im not sure is what,and end at the southrern terminal of the B18.At least i think thats how its gonna be.anyone's free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
So the B8 will be going to Jackie Gleason Depot, and the B40 & B78 will combined to the B47, Correct? When will this affect take place?
September 8, 2002 -- start of the Fall Pick.
David
B13/B18: will be combined into a new B13. Itll used the B18 northern terminal and the B13 southern terminal. A couple of streets that is used by the B18 will not have bus service but theres alternatives close by. I guess is stays at FP.
B40/B78: will be conbined into new B47. Runs from Woodhull Hospital down to Kings Plaza. Itll be similar to the B46. The purpose is to create an all Ralph Ave service. This bus is supposed to be 24hr/7 day a week bus. Yes the B47 will connect directly to the Sutter Av/Rutland Rd (3 train) subway station. Im guessing that it will use E.98St and Sutter Ave for turning purposes. IDK if there will be short turns buses at Sutter Ave station (ala B78). This route will be out of Flatbush depot. Also the portion along east of Ralph Ave of the B40 is close enough to the B12. Although IMO, an extension of the B45 wouldnt hurt since the B/Os of the B45 use a similar route to deadhead to/from ENY depot.
B8: Will operate out of JG Depot
9-8-02: The date of many changes throughout the NYCT.
B8#871
B13#9145
B47#5114
I thought that the TA believed that shorter routes were more efficient? Didn't they learn their lesson from the B82?
All this info from my previous post are from reliable sources...
When the new 100th St Depot opens on September 8th, why isn't the Hudson Pier Depot closing at the same time but is waiting to close it in January 2003 & why isn't the M79 going to 100th St on September 8th.
In addition, when Hudson Pier closes, will Michael J. Quill Depot receive all of the Hudson Pier Depot routes & what depot(s) will the X90/92,M96/106 & maybe the M10 & M20 routes from Michael J. Quill Depot be going to.
I do believe I had posted this earlier on BusTalk like last week. Briefly, the M79 MIGHT stay at Quill. The express bus routes could go to 100th St. The M96/M106 combo could stay at Quill. Now, Hudson will close in January 2003. I do not think that is going to be a QUICK move for Hudson so they do need time. When MJQ opened, I believe it took a lot of planning by the MTA to move personal and the buses. So, relax and enjoy the bus movements that are occuring right now..while we still can. Oh, the M10/M20 could stay at Quill or move to.....someplace else.
You tend to have a lot of specific question which can be best answered by sending a letter to the TA Dept. of Buses at 130 Livingston St. Brooklyn NY. On this board, all you will get is a lot of opinions and speculation. Your letter will be forwarded to the proper people. The TA changes their mind day to day about bus assignments, I am sure they do not know what will happen in September right now! In additon, the work program and depot route assignments are not official till the bus drivers start picking the jobs and these haven't been posted yet. As a matter of fact, the drivers are picking their summer runs right now. Please, let's get through one pick at a time? OK?
Okay, I was looking through the website....www.omot.org (Ohio Museum of Transportation) and I noticed that the Green Bus Lines got TMC buses #1150-1189 and Queens Surface Corporation got buses #275-391 (I'm assuming that there was no #392-395). This was in the T80-206 section of the GM Production lists. NOW, I know the following:
QSC buses #275-281 went to GBL to become buses #1143-1149.
QSC buses #282-293 went to JBL to become buses #3854-3865.
GBL buses #1183-1184 went to TCC to become buses....#1183-1184 (they should become #2830-2831).
Here's my question, where in the blue hell are OR what happened to buses #1185-1189 from GBL and buses #390-391 from QSC?
Green Line Buses 1185 to 1189 were transferred to Jamaica Buses and are JBL 3850 to 3854
I do not believe there were Queens Surfice Buses 390 and 391
Possibly Thurston who contributes to this site knows as i believe he works for Queens Surfice
Thank You
No Barry, thank you for the info!
QSC TMC 389 was the end. Next number used was 396 which is an Orion.
Why the Gap from 390-395? Are those numbers used for a specific reason?
#389 Q66
#396 Q104
Now we can't tell you all right now ... wait for the book ;-)
Close but no cigar for Barry. Here's the rundown:
Former GBL buses 1185-1189 are now JBL 3849-3853.
Former QSC 275-281 are now GBL 1143 (EX QSC 281)-1149 (EX-QSC 275).
Former QSC 282-293 are now GBL 3854-3865.
Former QSC 700-705 ("Orions") are now GBL 5545-5550.
Former GBL 1183-1184 are now at TCC as 1183-1184.
Former TCC Bus M-3 is now JBL 3701-also no longer CH30H Powered.
Former TCC Buses M-5 and M-6 are now GBL 653-654-also no longer CH30H Powered.
Hope this helps ya out.
#3850 Q111
#1143 Q60
#3858 QM21
#5548 Q41
#1183 Q18
#3701 Q113
#653 Q11
So I was on the QM1A this morning(Glen Oaks to 3rd Ave. route) and guess what...right at the stop on Union Tpke and 187th street, my bus broke down. It was number 505 Orion V CNG. What is with these Orions breaking down so often? Can anyone answer that for me?
The CNG concept was forced upon us by the enviormentalists and King George Pataki. A well maintained diesel bus is a clean machine. These CNG's are require much more maintance than a diesel and jobs take longer to do. Couple to that the onset of hot weather meaning more attention needed in the shops to air conditioning along with more strain on the bus itself. Buses break down more often in the summer, just like cars and trucks.
Simply said-I'd rather have an RTS than these ONIONS. Look at LIB-just about their whole fleet is ONION based and they've been prone to braking down ever since they arrived. Just ask QTrainDash 7.
#384 QM1A
ONIONS...LOL...I love it. Those damn "ONIONS" make me cry too!!
On Monday I saw LI 203 broke down, Northern Blvd near Utopia Pkwy, and NYCT Orion 103 broke down as well on Sanford.
And 103 was recently repowered, wasn't it?
Cheers!! The Orion CNG series are total crap!! Like I said previously...a day does not go by when I do not see at least 2 or 3 broken down. Today I was fortunate enough to be on one of the QS Orions that broke down! Guess thats what happens when you have a cheap government agency like the NYCDOT overseeing the purchases.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Orions in general are a good bus, they probably just need more attention than other buses. After all if they were such crap, they would have shown in the testing both revenue and non-revenue, and the buses wouldn't have been purchased.
On a side note, NYCT has Orion CNG's and when I used to ride them when I lived in Bklyn on the B16, B35, B37, B51 and B63 I never heard a bus driver complain about the performance of the buses.
Tony
Damn right! Had 164 stall out on me today. Fortunately after 2 times it finally started up. In the hot weather the Orions drop like flies.
Priase NJT for not buying crappy Orions.
And also Jamaica Bus Lines.
#3858 QM21
Orion CNG's suck. We have them at LI Bus and they are nothing but trouble. Had 164 stall on me today, fortunately it re-started.
CNG is just not worth it with today's clean diesel engines.
All of QSC's Orions use the Detroit Diesel Series 50G. These have a real habit of overheating in the summer. At LI Bus our newer Orion CNG's (288 and up have them). Everything prior is Cummins L10G powered. This one has a habit of stalling in motion (as what happened with 164 today).
I think we should make all the environmentalists ride these crappy CNG buses they made us have for life!
Yesterday afternoon I spotted the following Jamaica Depot MCI's in service and heading eastbound on 57th Street; # 2850 on the X63 and #'s 2857 & 2863 on the X64
This morning on Queens Blvd I spotted #2871 on the X64 and 2857 as well as another MCI of which I could not get the number. Every day there are more and more!!
Its bad enough that Fairview garage hasn't received any new buses yet but the handme downs we have received from the Meadowlands are terrible. 9202 tops the list as the slowest bus I have ever driven. It did all of 5mph up the Main street hill in Fort Lee. I'll be glad when the Neoplans arrive.
T. Bernard Beverett
Fairview garage
with zf transmission it should do faster.
btw:what is the top speed of it?
More than likely New Jersey Transit will govern the engines so operators like me ( lead footed ) don't go crazy on the roads.
T. Bernard Beverett
it appears so.i know that the njt mci's or ungovern.
LOL........I know that piece of junk! I drove that bus it is the worst bus we ever had, nobody wanted it! I almost sprained my ankle stomping on the gas of that piece of junk! 9202 REALY SUCKS! 495 is the worst with it! But you guys have a couple f our good flxs 3264 and 3058 those are good! Our new MCI's are great we were glad to get rid of that garbage, but I am sorry fairview got that junk!
Sorry you guys!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
what engine will the new neoplan sport.also which buses in njt do yall think is the fastests.
I am going with both the d4000's and d4501's they have to be the fastest to me myself, great pickup and great acceleration next would be the some novas, we have the 1995 ones, so they are all beat up. I myself can make a flxible metro b crank out 65mph, it would be good luck if I can make it go any faster than that.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowalands Garage
the fixible is a very slow bus i remember riding on 3087.it was slow bye the time it reach 50 the begining of 5th gear i thought the forth gear for a hour until it reach 5th.the nova's are fast with a cummins engine and zf transmission.
BTW:Is the fixible with the 6v92ta ddec engine is get retrofit to a cummins engine.Becouse i heard from some where it will happen sometime this year or next time.
3087 wouldn't have a 4th or 5th gear - the 1989 Flxibles were shifted by the 3-speed Allison V731. The torque converter lock-up feels like a shift, but there are only three actual gears.
I agree with you Tony 100% . I also can get a metro b to crank out 65-70mph when I'm working the 321 Vince Lombardi park/ride. I haven't had the luxury of driving anything newer ( Yet ) but it is embarrasing getting blown out on the turnpike by those D4000-D4500s.
oh so that mean the mci' are ungovern.
Actually no the mci's are goverened, they do not go past 71 mph. When we first got them they weren't but recently they were governed. They still have great pick up and are a great ride.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
i remember when they pick up like fire trucks.i hope the new neoplan's will pixk up the same way!
The Neoplan artics are supposed to be on the property early next year. Unlike the SEPTA or Bee-Line artics, the NJT artics will have a Caterpillar 9 Liter diesel with ZF Ecomat transmission. The prototype bus is expected at NJT by the end of the year with the rest of the production units slated to begin delivery by early next year.
Caterpillar 9 Liter diesel i never seen that as a bus engine maybe a truck or bullduzer or something really build that i guess that really take care of that 5-mile-per-hours problem with the vovlos .how many these big diesels buses they sopposed to get?!!
A few operators have purchased MCIs over the years with the 3176 engine in the past, and now the C12.
i will love to hear the sound of that when they come out!
I heard that starting this fall, NYCT will open the Arthur KIll Rd/Richmond Av Park-n-Ride.
Does anyone know the opening date for this Park-n-Ride & will the MCI express buses continue to stare it's buses there overnight & on the weekends or will another location be looked at to parked theses express buses.
The MTA will continue to STORE the MCIs at the AK Turnaround after the park and ride opens, hopefully this fall. The park and ride is being built on adjacent land that abuts the ROW for the unused portion of the existing Korean War Vets Pkwy.
-Hank
mci parking will continue there. i believe nyct got some land adjacent for the park and ride.
NYCT has nothing to do with the park and ride, it's a NYCDOT project, as is the one near the Outerbridge.
-Hank
Can anyone post the changes that are to take effect on 9/8/02 for the B36,B64,B68,B74,X29 & the Stillwell Av-Av X & Brighton Beach-Stillwell Av shuttle buses as part of the Stillwell Av reconstruction.
If you work at the Yukon Bus Depot. I would like to know on how many Orions & RTS buses are now at Yukon.
Also, what service changes are proposed for the Yukon bus routes this fall.
I don't work at Yukon Depot, but this Link might help you, with your question about how many orions & rts buses are at yukon.
NYCT Bus Roster - Depot By Depot Style
Hey Busfan, Yesterday i was in Staten Island @ Richmond/Hyland Blvd doing Surface Eveness from 6am to 1030am & i saw most of NYCT TMC #8294, #8305, #8306, #8310, & #8312 running on S59 & S79 line. BTW few RTS Buses ran on S59 are Extra. If you want to how many Orions & RTS buses at Yukon?? than go to www.transitalk.org/Rosters/NYCT-Busb.html & found out your self.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Just 10 more days, I can't wait. I must take my mind off Fresh Pond.
Can't wait to go to NYCT Bus Fest on June 22 if i don't have a work assignment that day. BTW DaRidgewoodbusbuff why you need to get rid of your mind about Fresh Pond? You hate Fresh Pond Depot?
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Not sure if I'll be there or not as of yet. I hope to make it.
Was at the Roadeo a few weeks ago for the 1st time-I hope to make the Bus Fest for the 1st time too. Time will tell.
#1979 X31
Don't get him started!
David, that was a bad question to ask him. I have known this guy for about two years...he REALLY hates the Fresh Pond Depot. Ask anyone on BusTalk, they will tell you and agree! I hope Fresh Pond gets new buses soon though...LOL!
this will be my first busfest what you do just look at buses are there model toy?
this is gonna be where in brooklyn again? i wanna be 100% sure of exactly where its gonna be at.
do u guys think they will show the Orion 7 on bus fest?
In the park behind Borough Hall.
Peace,
ANDEE
9 days left. Just rode RTS #4880, one of the very few 87' RTS's that I don't mind seeing.
8 days left. Let's hope it doesn't rain, like today.
-
Q55- RTS #9599
B13- RTS #9596
7 days left. Next Saturday!
I'll be there as long as it is not raining hard!
where?
Downtown Brooklyn, by the Court house
6 more days. Let's hope it isn't 90 degrees, on Saturday
5 days to go. Almost there
-
B13- RTS #9172
3 days left. The wait is almost over.
-
Q55- RTS #5061
2 days to go. So close, yet so far.
-
R32 R-Train
is the admission really gonna be free?hope so,it sure as hell elicts my excitement of going there.
Well, 1 more day. Tommorow it's going to me and 2 of my friends. I will be wearing a black sleeveless shirt, black shiny jeans, and sunglasses. If its hot I'll wear my black bandana. I hope to see you there.
Get your cameras ready.
Who is going?
Today I killed time by riding FP buses
Q55- RTS #9156(nice)
Q55- RTS #4880(not bad)
B13- RTS #9171
Q58- RTS #8010(this bus smelled terrible, and it polluted a lot; a non-repower)
Q58- RTS #5066(good, but I like the 9100's better)
Q55- RTS-#4703(Piece of crap, it was shaking the whole time)
I'll be there, most likely in the earlier part of the day (2pm and before).
The weather should be sunny, but it will get hot especially in the afternoon, that's why I'm going early!
I'll be there in about another hour and a half.
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.org
I rode 9636 M42-great bus.
507 Q32-DAMN ONION! The bus made an annoying sound in a/c system every time it was in motion. People on board were even questioning what the noise was. Warm, loud, annoying, slow and boaty-that's the description of an ONION for ya!
Got off the bus at 3rd Ave and 59 St because it was making me have sick feelings.
RTS-The bus of the day!
#9636 M42
Will Mack C-49 #6259 be there ? If so, I'll be there too.
Bill "Newkirk"
If anyone has heard from NYCT about the possibility of adding a new express bus route on Staten Island in the future.
When will this new route start operating, what will be it's new route number & where will it operate between.
[When will this new route start operating, what will be it's new route number & where will it operate between.]
If you know something that Transit doesn't, please speak up. Otherwise, rest assured that there aren't any plans for any new express routes from anywhere to anywhere with any number.
BTW, this answer will hold next week AND the week after that AND all the "follo"-wing weeks as well.
The NYCT Bus Service Advisories page will have info regarding new or changed bus routes throughout the city--
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/bus/bussrvno.htm
The Staten Island Advance cover local transit issues--
http://www.silive.com/news/
today when to eny depot and saw some cute drives
>>>today when to eny depot and saw some cute drives
Cute drivers? Since when does a sane person love a drive and call it cute? Or, since when can a person love a piece of asphalt that cars have run on for who-know-how-long???? I think u meant "drivers"...
Anyway...who are these drivers? I'd like to meet these drivers u claim u saw...in your dreams last night or something...roflmao
CW, "Madison" Street is near "Halsey" Street, not that it really matters, because "Madison" is spelled incorrectly also..lol
BTW- Thanks for the plug at "Bus38"!
Now show me some love....
what your point brooklyn 67
Ah, you noticed that too, huh "Brooklyn67"? "Madison Street near HALSEY Street"!
LOL!
You can love a road called Drive. Riverside Drive is really nice. I'd like to live on National Drive.
this is a half BusTalk,Half SubTalk message,unknowing of which to put it in,i chose here but anyway....yesterday i took the 1 train from 157th to 59th st. just missed a B train to go one stop to 7th Ave.I wait for the next train which i figure should be the D since thats the way it should always be....yaright,2 A's show up and another B comes before the D,that was crazy.Then i rode the E all the way to Jamaica Center then took the N4 bus #334 all the way to Freeport where i took the N19 which was late to Sunrise Mall.Spent a couple of hours there then i took the N54 bus#620 to Hempstead and boarded an unexpectedly crowded N27 bus #207 to Roosevelt Field.if i knew it was gonna be as crowded as i saw it i wouldve waited for the N35 to leave which was already next to it and it was bus#208.then took the N24 bus#206 from Roosevelt Field to 179th st and boarded an F train to 34th st.now here's the really crazy part and what makes it crazy and a coincidence is that a few mintues before i saw 2 people looking at a subway map i was thinking that its been almost a year since the Manny Bridge service change and that there were still people who didnt know about it.Low and behold i saw 2 people looking at a subway map still thinking that the B train went to Brooklyn and that they were fine...yaright.they said they were fine,i asked where they were going they said to brooklyn,i shook my head and pointed to the local platform and said "nope,the B doesnt go to Brooklyn anymore" lady was like "what!? what do you mean it doesnt go to brooklyn anymore!?" i told em to take the F to 4th Ave and transfer to the M since they were going to New Utrechet Ave.I would've simply said "go upstairs and take the W" but then again if i had said that i know they would've been like "wha? the W? what the hell is the W train?" i know i couldve also said to take the N but it completely slipped my mind just like so many other things.from there i took the B to 59th where an A was waiting for us and off to home i went. well overall it wasnt too bad although that last part was kinda crazy.
N4:334
N19:N/A
N54:620
N27:207
N35:208
N24:206
by the way,on account of those 2 people going to New Utrechet Av in Brooklyn,how many think they were tourists or live in the city but obviously never took the B often enough to know that it wasnt going to brooklyn anymore?I cant really tell,i mean honestly here,how many tourists go to New Utrechet Av anyway?
A few weeks ago I was approached by a European couple at the Christopher St PATH station. The guy was English and the woman had an accent I couldn't figure out. She just kept saying "Subway." He said he wanted the D train to Brooklyn. I told him to take a Brooklyn-bound 1 or 2 and change at Atlantic Av, but I didn't know if they'd have to go up or downstairs.
Several blocks away I realized my stupidity. However what about the person who told them to take the D? I guess anybody anywhere in the City can have visitors; surely they weren't tourists. And their friend or relative certainly isn't a subway rider!! Or maybe they had a "senior moment" like I did. Anyhow I've felt bad about my mistake and this is easier than going to Confession!!
Christopher St Path station!? they had to go to 33rd st and take the Q train.the D doesnt go past 34th st anymore for another 2 years.but this goes to show that in a city as large as this one,no matter how ridiculous it may seem,especially about a service change that has been in effect for almost a year,some people still are unaware of it and we just have to put up with it wether they're tourists or not.
STORY about bus driver involved in last months stabbing. Somehow I knew something like this was going to happen.
Peace,
ANDEE
an interesting side note. paul fleuranges used to be the ny1 reporter who was a nyct frequent critic. it seems hes been coopted by nyct.
He also worked for News 2 before going to the MTA!
I'm glad, though, that the last two sentences were put in the article as well -- that the TA DID know of the man's record before he was hired, and that one's record does NOT necessarily disqualify them.
If the TA knew of the man's record before he was hired, I commend him in being honest in reporting his past mistakes!
"Transit Authority spokesman Paul Fleuranges said Phillip disclosed his criminal past before he was hired in August."
What happened to Al O'Leary? He's usually the blowhard spewing nonsense from the TA.
Since he disclosed his past and the TA hired him anyway, they have no right to use it against him. If it wasn't enough to prevent him from obtainig the job, it shouldn't affect his visible performance on the job.
"A criminal record, by law, does not automatically disqualify a job applicant, he said."
Hmm..
Personally, I wouldn't hire a felon to operate a city bus, but that's me. Misdemeanors are subject to descression, I suppose.
>>> Personally, I wouldn't hire a felon to operate a city bus <<<
A felony should not automatically preclude hiring, for instance one that is ten years ago when the applicant was a teenager should not preclude hiring a 28 year old. What surprises me is that the TA hired this driver with a conviction in April of 2001.
I doubt that the Grand Jury will indict, but the DA is playing CYA so the dead man's relatives can not blame him for not prosecuting.
Tom
"A felony should not automatically preclude hiring, for instance one that is ten years ago when the applicant was a teenager should not preclude hiring a 28 year old."
I disagree. I wouldn't want a rapist, murderer, larcenist or any other felon driving my family around, or for that matter, working with the individual. Even if the crime was commited 10 years ago.
What surprises me is that the TA hired this driver with a conviction in April of 2001.
I agree with you here. However, I'm not aware of the prior conviction charges. What was he found guilty of committing?
I disagree. I wouldn't want a rapist, murderer, larcenist or any other felon driving my family around, or for that matter, working with the individual. Even if the crime was commited 10 years ago.
So all felonies should come with life sentences? Even smaller crimes still considered felonies?
What "small crime" do you consider a felony?
As far as your "life sentence" analogy is concerned, do you believe these convicted felons should be police officers as well as bus operators?
Maybe you're right. Maybe convicted pedophiles should be given second chances and rewarded with operating school buses. After all, we wouldn't want them punished for life for a crime they committed when they were 18 years old.
Sounds like a plan, eh?
Sheesh....
No, people shouldn't be punished for life for a crime they committed when they were 18 unless that crime warrants life imprisonment.
If a person is released and not on parole, then their record should not be public data. A person's record should only matter if they're convicted again.
BTW, all theft is a felony. Do you think a person should be convicted to life imprisonment for stealing a loaf of bread?
So then you agree that a convicted pedophile should obtain a position driving a school bus or teaching young school children. Your sister's (grandchildrens, cousins) school bus, Yes?
A convicted cop-killer who shot an officer when he was 18 should be able to obtain a position as a police officer after he's served his time and has been "rehabilitated"?
An ex-gangbanger who stole cars and robbed, beat and hospitalized innocent people when he was 18 should be given the opportunity to obtain a position as a bank teller? An armed security guard? A court officer? Your daughters bus driver?
Sorry, I don't agree with your thinking.
So then you agree that a convicted pedophile should obtain a position driving a school bus or teaching young school children. Your sister's (grandchildrens, cousins) school bus, Yes?
Rapists should be sentenced to life, regardless of who the victim is. Child molestation is rape.
A convicted cop-killer who shot an officer when he was 18 should be able to obtain a position as a police officer after he's served his time and has been "rehabilitated"?
OK, I can agree with you there, somebody who has broken the law, even if it's as simple as stealing a loaf of bread shouldn't be in law enforcement. In other industries, I don't see a problem.
An ex-gangbanger who stole cars and robbed, beat and hospitalized innocent people when he was 18 should be given the opportunity to obtain a position as a bank teller?
Yes
An armed security guard?
That would be law enforcement.
A court officer?
Also law enforcement.
Your daughters bus driver?
Yes
Security is not law enforcement, it is property protection.
I still disagree with your thinking. Doesn't really pay to continue with it.
Amen! Just because someone commits a crime doesn't mean the rest of their life should be doomed. They've done their time for the crime and learned their lesson. Let them move on! After all, we all have to make a living. Besides, this is America....land of the free. How free can it be if you don't have the option to make a turnaround?
Shunning someone for one offense for life will only create a negative attitude for the individual and heighten the probability that they will screw up again. That is completely counteractive. I'm not saying pat someone on the back for breaking the law; I am simply stating that once they have realized they made a mistake, they should be able to live a good life to their fullest.
Besides, if God can forgive them, why can't we?
>>> I wouldn't want a rapist, murderer, larcenist or any other felon driving my family around, or for that matter, working with the individual. Even if the crime was commited 10 years ago. <<<
If everyone thought like that, once a person was convicted of a felony, there would be no honest way he could earn a living once released from prison. I have met several men in their 30s who were former gang bangers who developed into solid citizens once they gave up the gang life. Frequently what causes them to make the change is a stretch in prison, and the ability to get a decent job when they get out. BTW, some felonies in California include shoplifting, bookmaking, intentionally writing an NSF check (even if you thought funds would arrive to cover it), if the dollar amount involved is above a certain limit, or the person has a previous misdemeanor conviction.
>>> What was he found guilty of committing? <<<
I believe the news story mentioned a conviction for larceny for the theft of a gold chain in 1992 (possibly pled down from robbery), child endangerment for striking his own child with a belt, and illegal possession of a weapon in 2001 (for which he received probation).
Tom
We can agree to disagree here, Tom. I can see your point, but I just don't agree with it.
What do you think should happen to a guy who has had just a single felony conviction (for say, kiteing checks)? Should that person be barred from ever holding a job?
-Hank
I'm with you in the drift....humanbeings make mistakes. If they are convicted, serve their time, and learn from their mistakes...inother words, try to live a clean slate, they should be given the chance.
It would depend on the type of felony it is. Once again, discretion is key.
I commend him in being honest also, however, the bus operator would also have to know that any criminal record not reported to the T/A would have been discovered anyway as Transit does a full background check on everybody they hire. A criminal record not reported on the application would have been found and most likely disqualified him from being hired.
BIG AL
Amen. Honesty is the best policy there; who knows what would have happened if he fibbed on the application?
Where will the Park-n-Ride lot be located exactly & where will the local buses enter the Park-n-Ride at.
The local buses won't enter it, except for short turns on the s55/56 and s74, which will turn there.
The park and ride will be between the existing turnaround and the ROW of the Korean War Vets Pkwy.
-Hank
Hey, everybody; it's been a while since I have been able to get on to BusTalk, but I'm back. I can't even begin to tell you how much I missed everyone!!!
Things are well with me and all the buses here in Roanoke; if anyone has tried to get a hold of me, I dearly apologize that I missed you; please e-mail me and I will be happy to take care of any business I can as soon as possible. I didn't forget you; I just had some circumstances that kept me down. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Hey Fred, is your IM still Fredman176? Great to have you back!
Why, Thank You! Yes sir, it is! E-mail me sometime and let me know what's up!
-Fred
Hey Fred,
Good to see ya back!
Tone M.
NJT Bus Operator
Thanks Tone; it's great to be back. I just now got a great ride to the library today; our museum just acquired a 1973 Fishbowl 30-footer with a V8 engine that really roars with power, and the inside is just like brand new. Also, I've been riding around town al day taking care of errands on Valley Metro's new fleet of Gilligs. Say what you want about 'em, but their ThermoKing A/C units really are a treat on a 95-degree day like this!
Talk to you soon.
-Fred
Hey, do you know anyone with photos of them thangs? I'd like to see at least one or two...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
I sent a bunch of photos to Trevor Logan back in January or so; he should have them at TransiTalk but I have not found them yet. Also, a recent issue of Bus Ride Magazine featured one of our new Thomas SLF 200s on the cover. Anyone know where I can find this issue or which one it was?
-Fred
Fred, terrific to see you back! Hope all is well with you and your part of the world. You didn't miss too much as your absence fortuitously coincided with a forcibly imposed three-month BusTalk "hiatus" ;).
C
So I heard; what was up with that? Was the server down, or did some of the rowdies have a "bar fight"? At any rate, good to see the old BusTalk is still running! All is well for now....
-Fred
A 'bar fight,' you might say. :) Actually -- sign of the times -- it had to do with threatened legal action (hot air, really) over a couple of posts. Silly but a refreshing break.
C
Sheeze...legal? Good Lord! I'm curious as to what happened, but never mind...I'd better not get into it. Yow.
-F.
hey flxible are you Floyd? I know a guy who loved the flx.
Maybe in another life he was....Its no secret that Flxible is Fred Donaher, bus modeler extraordinaire and curator of the Commonwealth Bus Museum in Virginia.
welcome back
Welcome back Fred
Thank you; great to be here.
-Fred
Fred!! Its great to see you on the board again. I just came back on today after not realizing bustalk was back on. I've been totally crazy busy at work and thing as well.
I hope everything is ok and look forward to getting back in the swing of bustalking again.
I'm also glad to have a diversion from my really bad fantasy league baseball team that is quitting on me!! Of course, if the players go on strike, it wont matter!!
Take care
It's great to hear from you again! E-mail me if you can.
Here's what's happening in Roanoke; we just got a "new" 3302 in the museum with that funky Detroit that sounds like a Cummins but is based off the Cadillac Eldorado 500 CID; a great bus in mint shape.
Also, Blacksburg sadly retired its RTS-06 fleet and replaced them with more New Flyer LFs. Their Flx fleet is still running strong.
So what's new with WMATA?
-Fred
Okay, the last time I checked the Q2 and Q3 use 188th St going back to Jamaica. Why does the Queens Bus Map have the Q2 and Q3 on 190th St instead of 188th St. Check out you Queens Bus Maps and you'll see what I'm talking about.
The Queens bus map also says that the Q34 runs on Saturdays. :-(
I was talking to "DH60F" about this today and he gave me a few choices. The question is what will the MTA-NYCT order when the Novas are scrapped. This will happened in about another...oh...15 YEARS! (if that) But it's a thought that I had. "DH60F" suggets maybe Orions, MCI's and New Flyers. What do you guys think? I think by that time..we might see some buses that the MTA-NYCT would never get..like NABI's and/or Neoplans!
In 2017, all buses will be built in China. Hubcaps will be installed in New York State to satisfy 'Buy America' laws.
JD
Does that mean we going to be stuck with imitation Flexible's?(If we order enough do we get free eggrolls or ribs with that order):>)
Beginning this Monday and until September 2nd the Long Island Rail Road will begin track work between Jamaica and Vallrey Stream on the Babaylon branch which will require all off peak service between Jamaica and the St Albans station to be via Shuttle Bus
Is the TA operating this shuttle from Jamaica Depot
Thank You
Well. Jamaica and Queens Village Depot is close to St Albans. But Jamaica is much closer to St Albans. Most Likely it's Jamaica Depot,Depends if they have enough B/O's to cover it or they would use the Drivers from X63/X64 to do it.
idk what buses would run on that shuttle. It's most likely would be MCI's since they don't see Midday and Weekend service.
theres a shuttle bus that starts from the Queens Village station but to where does it go to? it uses buses from QV,JA and CS.
Check out the LIRR schedule for St Albans on the lirr website....you will note the 'S' next to the off-peak arrival and departture times...in the footnotes the 'S' indicates that St Albans customers will transfer to or from a van to complete their trip
St Albans is one of the lowest ridership stations on the entire LIRR
It is scheduled this year for Saturday June 22, 2002 10AM - 4 PM
Because the Museum is closed the set up will be over by the Supreme Court building.
For more information:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/museum/busfestival.htm
which train is closest to that Supreme court building? what street is it on?
will they be sell models of the buses at busfest?
4, N and R--Borough Hall Station.
Peace,
ANDEE
OOPS, forgot about the 1 and 2.
Peace,
ANDEE
Where I intern at in Bklyn now, I constantly see these buses working the B103 to and from Canarsie. I know they got Cummins C8.3 CELECTs powering them. Do they also have ZF Transmissions, like NJT does (I haven't been able to hear them take off from start long enough to find out for myself)?
Some were orig. nycDOT and some came from the TA when they became odd balls in their fleet.
Those are not Cummins C8.3 CNG / ISC CNG Engines in those RTSs. As a matter of fact since those 5 1993 Orion 05.501 Diesel (291-295 I believe) there hasn't been a C8.3 in a NYCDOT or MTA bus since.
Those are Cummins L-10G CELECT, 260 Horsepower Engines with ZF Ecomat HP-590 5-Speed Automatic Transmissions. The same engine and tranny combination used in MTA's 1995 Orion 05.501 CNG (581-601) buses and also originally used in the NYCDOT Orion 05.501 CNG Demo, now Command Orion #4932, which has since been repowered with a Series 50 DDEC III From Detroit Diesel.
Those only known Cummins C8.3/ISC Engines is use in the Metropolitan area are in the New Jersey Transit's 1993-1994 Flxible Model 40102-C6 "METRO D ADB" and NovaBUS RTS T80-206 buses.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Is this the same Cummins L10G used in a lot of the older LI Bus CNG's?
As a matter of fact, it is the same engine. AFAIK, the older LI Bus Orions have an Allison tranny as opposed to ZF.
I was heading home today. I was talking to people at the place I was heading home from so I was not at the stop 5 minutes before the bus. But, despite my not being as early as normal, I was one very short block from the bus stop 2 minutes before the bus was due to arrive. Well, while I was still walking, I look up and see a Gillig passing by the stop heading towards Wheaton! I was quite annoyed, ran up the street, looked towards the next stop which was about 200 feet away. Naturally, the bus wasn't there. The bus to Montgomery Mall had already gone (early but I never saw it, so it must have been early) so I was unable to go to the Mall and get a bus there. Lucklily, someone I knew came along and offered to take me to the Shady Grove Station. Although it was totally out of my way, I did not mind, for I saw plenty when I was there.
Once I was dropped off at Shady Grove, I ventured over towards the Ride-On Depot. They built additional space for parking near the bus depot because they are building the parking garage over the old lot. I saw 5567, 5569, and 5569-the 35 foot CNGs, three of the four Flxible Metro-Ds (5701, 2, and 3), and surprisingly, WMATA C40LF 2409! I got pictures of most of those buses, although I did have to contend with the fence around the yard, we will see how the pictures are when they come out. I also saw 025601, meaning that bus has been assigned to Shady Grove. Many 40 foot CNGs were there. 5811 also says 99 as its birthyear on the back. I posted in December about 5804 being the same way.
I then walked back to the Metro Station where I waited for a train to come. The first train was running light to the yard. The next train was in service and took it back home, ending my little adventure for the day.
These were posted in other threads, but I'm repeating some news about the NJT bus fleet that I've come across over the past few days:
* The MCI D4000 with the ZF transmission is #7618, and is believed to be testing out at Egg Harbor garage in South Jersey.
* The D4500s will only be assigned to Howell, Meadowlands, and Wayne, in addition to any private carrier lines.
* Nearly 30 other transit agencies across the US have piggy-backed onto NJT's MCI D4000/4500 order
* The NJT Neoplan artics will have a Caterpillar diesel engine with a ZF Ecomat transmission; the demo is due on NJT property in November or December, with the production fleet to start arriving early next year; all artics are slated for North Jersey, as there are no lines in South Jersey which can support artics on a full day basis
* NJT is planning to replace the Metro B Suburban fleet (3000 & 3500 series buses). The bids are expected by the first part of next year. The leading candidates are Neoplan and NABI; New Flyer has expressed some interest, but NJT is not likely go with NFI since they don't really build high floor coaches anymore (save for the remaining D60HFs for NYC Transit)
MCI D4000 Cruiser "II" #7618 is not in South Jersey!!!! I chased this bus quite few times this week while driving my own bus, It's still in Wayne Garage.
Correction on the D4500 Garage assignments, Oradell will be getting D4501s as they are currently training operators on 8202.
More than likely, Neoplan will be getting that METRO-B replacement order, as they Neoplan WILL low ball the bid so it can keep production right behind the AN-460 Articulated Order. NABI will try, but I can guarantee because of the Artic order, they will fail.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I agree with Trevor. Neoplan can use the artic order to their advantage, especially because there will be suburban artics, reducing the parts need even further. Neoplan can also build a 96-inch unit for the NJT #120 out of Greenville garage - NABI and New Flyer probably gave up that capability. And, since the high-floor Transliner uses a very similar body to the low-floor Transliner, they will have the inside track if NJT ever decides they want them.
As long as Maureen Milan is the VP of Bus/Light Rail Operations at NJT, don't expect any low floors in NJT colors. Not that I disagree with that philosophy, given how most of the system is set up when compared to SEPTA and even NYC Transit.
Okay, so will NJT get Neoplan 40-Foot buses simliar to what San Franscisco MUNI is operating with the Cummins ISM engines? Or will NABI supply the 40-Foot buses and Neplan will supply the artics? What do you mean the Flxible would be brought buy Neoplan? Would that mean that they would strip them or something?
I wouldn't be surprised if the Neoplans have the Cummins ISC (8.3 liter) engine that is standard on the Metro D and Nova fleets. If NABI somehow submits the lower bid on the Metro B replacement order, then that might happen.
That must have occured recently. The trainer from NJT who was at the SEPTA Roadeo was fairly certain that 7618 was at Egg Harbor. I should have clarified that comment.
I was not aware that Oradell was training on the D4500s. I was at the NJT Board meeting yesterday when the D4500s were brought up. In the Executive Director's report, George Warrington (the new ED in case people were unaware) mentioned the D4500s were to be assigned to Wayne, Meadowlands, and Howell, but made no mention of Oradell getting these buses.
AFA the Metro-B replacement goes, I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct about Neoplan getting the order. I had spoken to a high ranking official at 1 Penn Plaza about the Metro Bs, and was told that New Flyer expressed some interest, however NJT has pretty much sworn off low floors, citing a lack of seats compared to standard floors. Seeing as New Flyer (which only recently updated their web site, BTW) is no longer taking new orders for standard floor buses, that rules them out. NJT officials seem to be happy with Neoplan as opposed to NABI.
What bus would NJT buy from NeoPlan? I see a standard floor transit bus with 43 seats. That wouldn't be enough for NJT. I also see the larger Metroliner but I think that would be too tall for the PA Bus Terminal
a neoplan artic.
The Neoplan artic purchase is an existing order to replace the Volvo artics. ctrabs is referring to replacing the Flxible Metro B suburbans with Neoplan Transliner suburbans.
The buses in question would most likely seat 45 since these would be single door suburbans as opposed to dual door transit coaches. I think the rationale is that as long as NJT is going with Neoplan for artics, they may end up going with them to replace the Metro Bs, which really wouldn't be a bad choice at all.
The 1984 and 1985 Neoplans at SEPTA (8601-8875 series) will be off the roster by the end of this summer; that's 16-17 years of active revenue service. Some of the 8700s at Comly are starting to show their age; the other day, I saw 8705 (an ex-Red Arrow unit with soft seats) barely able to accelerate up Bustleton Avenue after leaving Comly Depot to run a school tripper. All things considered, though, that those buses have lasted this long is pretty remarkable.
18 years is a long time that why i alway never see them on the hills.
Are the MCI C4000s (CNG Cruizers) Still in service? And what garage are they running from?
All of the MCI CNG Cruisers (7000 series) operate out of Howell garage and are seen frequently on the 130's series of routes.
Be careful - unlike New Flyer, the letter in the MCI model number has nothing to do with the fuel used. The MCI CNG coaches were model 102D3 (renamed D4000 in the middle of 2000) - "D" referring to the 4th letter series of coaches that startedt with A in 1985; it does not mean "diesel".
you are absolutly right
The CNGs are still at Howell garage. I saw one on Wednesday at Newark Penn Station arriving on the 67 line from Tom's River (I forgot the number off the top of my head), but I noticed that the turn signals were replaced with LED lights.
How reliable are those CNG's? Because our LI Bus Orion CNG's aren't very reliable.
I heard they were crappolas too, but I can't speak from experience. I was only on one once, on #139, back when the first batch (low 7000's) was new.
From what I understand, they can only take 4 or 5 standees because of weight restrictions, or something.
Hopefully the CNG's will stay off the NJT routes I ride, mainly the 171 and Willowbrook routes.
CNG should not be allowed for use for fuel in transit buses, clean diesel is pretty good and much more reliable.
Let the tree-huggers use CNG for their cars, then they can get stuck at the side of the road!
Ride-On has a fleet of about 25 CNGs and I never see the whole CNG fleet on the side of the road. I got a CNG bus almost daily for 4 months and we never had problems. Then, for the next 4 months, we had a diesel bus while the other bus on that route had a CNG which was there almost daily as well. I don't hear other about other agencies having trouble with their CNG buses. Maybe it is an LIB problem, not a CNG problem.
the 171 will never get cngs. IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE. AND IT'S NOT A CNG PROBLEM,IT'S A NJT PROBLEM. THEY TRY TO BE TOO SOPHISTICATED. REMEMBER THE EAGLES WE HAD. I DROVE THEM IN HOWELL, THEY RODE NICELY BUT COULDN'T TAKE THE PUNISHMENT.
I don't believe that Wayne garage has the setup to refuel cng buses so you don't have to worry about them on the willowbrook lines.
T. Bernard Beverett
Fairview garage
The only garages with CNG fueling are Orange (no longer used, though), Hamilton, and Howell. Otange and Hamilton shared the 5 CNG Flxibles, all are in Ham now.
I remember when Orange garage had the 5 flexible cng buses , they were used on the 92 Crosstown line only in the early 90's.
A lot of the time, the Flxible CNGs are out of service and stored outdoors at Hamilton; though it's been quite some time since I've been anywhere north of Trenton on the NEC.
Not to worry there... The MCI CNGs owned by NJT are presently assigned to Howell for use mainly on US 9 corridor services (the 130s and the 64/67/68 lines).
[The D4500s will only be assigned to Howell, Meadowlands, and Wayne, in addition to any private carrier lines.]
I rode 7429 on the 190 on Tuesday afternoon, and saw at least one other 45-footer on the 190. My bus had originated in Paterson, so I'm pretty sure it was a Market Street garage and not a Meadowlands garage bus. Is it possible that Market Street got some 45-footers? As an aside, almost all of the 190's I saw Tuesday and yesterday were Cruisers, highly unusual for a weekday. Have Cruisers supplanted the Flxible suburbans on the 190? That has happened to other Market Street routes (e.g., 171 and 175).
7429 is a meadowlands bus, we operate the express lines from 190 Rutherford Express and 190 Seacaucus Cul De Sac onyl during weekday during morning and afternoon rush hour. I do the Seacaucus one in the morning and the Rutherford in the afternoon. Meadowlands does not go to Paterson.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
Thanks for the info. I assumed that my bus, 7429, had originated in Paterson only because of how full it was when I got on in Secaucus. According to the passenger counter, 81 passengers had entered the bus from the start to the end of its run. It was a good thing it was a 45-footer rather than a 40-footer.
Yes that bus does get packed alot......esp when one is late, deadheading from ny to seacaucus, lots of people ride that bus. I am surprised though cause that 45 footer barely can make that uturn in the culdesac......I dunno wierd.......
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Hey everyone; I have a couple questions about a newly acquired bus at our local transit museum. As curator, you'd think I should know these things already but I learn something new every day.
We now have a 1973 GMC Fishbowl 3302A (30-footer) in our collection, which has a unique diesel engine in it. It is a GM-type V8, which originally was a gas engine but was reworked for diesel. I forget the actual nomenclature, but it is an 8.2 litre engine and is believed to be a four-cycle; it almost sounds like a Cummins when it pulls off. By the litre displacement, am I right in thinking it is based on the Cadillac 500 CID engine that was widely used in the Eldorados?
Also, the inside is like new but the paint is a bit on the chalky side. We wish to keep the original paint and want to avoid a redo if possible; what are the odds that a compound and buffer would shine it back up?
Any help here is greatly appreciated...
-Fred
Depending on how bad the paint got, buffing it might not work. I've tried this myself....with no success.
Trouble is, if you want to give it a repaint, you DON'T want topaint over that old stuff without a VERY complete and thorough sanding...as what is causing the "roughness" (i.e. oxidation, etc.) will come right through any new paint that is applied over it. I've had this experience both on real buses I've painted and scale models.
Sounds about right; I NEVER paint a model without sanding it first. We had a spot like that show up on the side of our Grumman when we restored it last year; the paint looks good overall, but there is an area that looks like a skin graft. However, no Bondo was used on that part; it is just above the right front fender behind the door, right where people make their grand entrance. What an irksome twist!
-Fred
What a sad day it is for me. In my hiatus, I have come back to find that the beloved RTS, one of the last great-looking new buses left, has bitten the dust. According to novabus.com (albeit old news), the manufacturer states that production was halted for new orders at the end of 2001 and remaining orders would be filled until component depletion.
Also, I found out last week that nearby Blacksburg Transit has gotten rid of their 1989 RTSes in trade for some New Flyer LFs. We tried to get one for the museum, but no dice; they were all bought out by the time we checked into it. The good news is that Blacksburg's fleet of 1986-87 Flxible Metro "B"s are still running the routes for a good little while, so all is not lost. With the RTS gone, it joins the Metro/870 in that great original ADB factory in the sky. :(
I guess all those beautiful lines are slated for the history books...
-Fred
Ah yes, the RTS'...
They will be missed in my mind as well. Eventually, most of them will be lost(while some will survive in the museums) but we will never lose them in our hearts!
I wonder when the time will come when we're saying bye-bye to the Orions?
True that. They should certainly be preserved; we may be getting a 1981 model from Charlottesville in the near future for our museum. (I can't believe an 81 is a museum piece...sheeze, I feel old!)
I don't know what to tell you about Orion; are they having trouble too? Let me know; the Orion Vs are alright buses. I especially liked the 30 and 40-foot examples we had here on loan from DC in 2000. They were smooth, quiet, and reminded me a LOT of a Flxible Metro from the inside, especially the angled greenhouse and the groovy wall-to-wall woodgrain.
-Fred
<<< I don't know what to tell you about Orion; are they having trouble too? >>>
Not really. Orion is now part of Daimler Chrysler's Evobus subsidiary, which I believe was originally the Mercedes bus manufacturing business in Europe. This affiliation should finally give Orion some much-needed corporate support. I think we can expect Evobus to use Orion to make a serious push to gain market share in North America, especially with New Flyer's recent troubles and the less-than-overwhelming acceptance of Nova's LFS bus.
I would expect to see some new bus models from Orion in the next few years, perhaps based on Evobus models from Europe. For now, new Orion V high-floor buses are still being built - I saw new ones at the Orion plant two weeks ago for MTA Long Island Bus, Fairfax Connector (Virginia) and Foothill Transit (Southern California), along with the Orion VI and Orion VII low-floor buses.
Jim D.
Evobus? That's a new one on me. So Orions are technically Mopar buses! What a neat thing to know. Wow...Cummins, Thomas, Detroit Diesel, and now OBI....before you know it, we'll have Hemi Low Floors and 40-footers built Ram Tough...LOL!
Good to hear the Vs are still around; I'd imagine they'll stay built as they are the mainstream product. I look forward to the new designs....
-Fred
>>> I saw new [Orion Vs] at the Orion plant two weeks ago for ... Foothill Transit (Southern California) <<<
This really surprises me. The overwhelming majority of the Foothill fleet is Gillig, and management seems to be committed to LF buses, particularly the Gillig Advantage.
Tom
Funny part is, the notice from Nova discusses the Rapid Transit SYSTEM transit *bus*, when everybody knows GMC named it the Rapid Transit SERIES transit *coach*.
QV's 1852 was seen in service tonight on Water Street out of MJQ Depot on the
X92 - Yorkville.
Interesting to see this 1982 RTSs is still doing express runs - I thought they were now limited to locals.
Would one see 1826 on this route also?
Also, saw 3893 out of Hudson - on M9 - still have soft seats.
I know MJQ now has this bus - I should have wrote "Ex - QV's 1852."
I know ,I was on 3893 last night for its last run out of Bat Pk. City .
Noticed a new red light photo camera this morning while riding the X15.
The new camera is located on the southeast corner of Amboy Road and Tysens Lane - Shooting at traffic heading north.
Bus routes affected are
X15 - Downtown NYC Bound
S57 - Pt. Richmond Bound
while where at it there are 3 new locations in brooklyn.
1.on west bound tillary street and cadman plaza west affecting b51
2.on northbound flatbush avenue and avenue h affecting b41 and q35
3.ave u westbound and mill ave affecting b78, b3 and b100 and buses running light from kings plaza to veterans avenue on b41
correction the camera on avenue u is eastbound not westbound
->section needs updating...
NYC Red Light Camera Locations
This looks to me like a big sign that says 'Bus operators! Continue to run all red lights, EXCEPT at these locations!
-Hank
here is a little article about red light cameras from last august from the ny post.
CITY EYEING DECOY STOP-LIGHT CAMERAS
New York Post; New York; Aug 22, 2001; KIRSTEN DANIS;
Abstract:
With state lawmakers refusing to let the city install more real cameras - there are now 50 at key intersections - Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall says she'll decide next month whether to set up 200 decoy cameras to fool lead-footed drivers into stopping at red lights.
Robert Cook, an aide to Assembly Transportation Committee Chairman David Gantt (D-Rochester), said lawmakers are concerned the cameras could replace cops and tread on civil rights - and that they are used mostly to churn up revenue.
Full Text:
(Copyright 2001, The New York Post. All Rights Reserved)
City officials are considering putting up "dummy" sky-spy cameras to slow drivers gunning through red lights, officials said yesterday.
With state lawmakers refusing to let the city install more real cameras - there are now 50 at key intersections - Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall says she'll decide next month whether to set up 200 decoy cameras to fool lead-footed drivers into stopping at red lights.
"There are some pros and cons to it," said Weinshall's spokesman, Tom Cocola. "It could be perceived as a little misleading on our part to put up a camera that doesn't work."
San Francisco, Alexandria, Va., and Toronto are among the bigger cities using dummy cameras in their red-light programs.
The city installed 30 of the cameras in 1994 and added another 20 last month.
They photograph the license plates of violators, who are then ticketed in the mail.
Last year, some 220,000 fines were upheld, netting the city about $9 million.
DOT officials wanted to boost the number of cameras to 100, but the Legislature put up a stop sign to the plan.
Robert Cook, an aide to Assembly Transportation Committee Chairman David Gantt (D-Rochester), said lawmakers are concerned the cameras could replace cops and tread on civil rights - and that they are used mostly to churn up revenue.
He said: "We think there are other ways to get at the problem, with stepped-up law enforcement [and] greater education."
Traffic and safety analyst Charles Komanoff dismissed the decoy plan as "pathetic."
DOT officials should push Albany harder for the real thing instead of running the risk motorists will take their chances with the dummies, said Komanoff.
Not exactly, Hank. More along the lines of, "Be extra careful at these locations". The unions are given a list of RLC intersections annually.
How does this apply to the real world?
Well, knowing where these cameras are helps to ensure a _safer_ trip. If I know there's a RLC ahead, I'll drag to be sure I stop for the light, rather than get caught between it turning red.
Remember, bus operators are held to a higher standard of compliance (which directly affects the right to earn a living, vis statute) where the VTL is concerned (Section 509a Article 19-A [NYS Bus Operators] and Article 19-B [NYS School Bus Operators]).
Article 19-A (Under formatting construction) of the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law.
looks to me like maybe you shouldn`t ride buses . they are dangerous and run all red lights where there are no cameras. what a joke!!!!
Newflyer, I'll check out the camera at Ave U and Mill ave by Tuesday but I'm willing to bet it is a fake also.
In regards to the camera you mentioned at ave H and Flatbush. I don't remember the fake camera I saw as being that close to "The Junction" but maybe I'm wrong. I believe the "dummy" I saw was closer to Kings Highway on Flatbush ave. unless they put up two. I'll scout all the locations when I have the patrol car again and let you know.
BIG AL
Lots of new cameras in Brooklyn. I think most are fakes. Here is a list that I've seen.
Cropsey Ave westbound at 14 Ave
86 St. Northbound at West 13{opposite the RTO training center}
Bay Pkwy Eastbound [towards Ocean Pkwy] at Ave J
Ralph Ave Northbound at Flatlands Ave
Some that I believe are real are:
Surf Ave Westbound at West 5 St. [3 cameras overhead]
Bay Pkwy Eastbound [towards 74 th St.] at Bay Ridge Pkwy [75th St.]
Ft. Hamilton Pkway Westbound [towards 61st St.] at 60th St.
I went camera checking today. Here's what I came up with so far.
1)Ralph and Flatlands camera---fake!
2)Avenue U & Mill ave camera---fake!
3)Flatbush ave & Ave.H camera---real!
I'll post the rest as I see them.
BIG AL
I believe that all the fake cameras have a pole that is straight 2-3 inch in diameter, while real cameras have a base at the bottom similar to lamposts.
Meanwhile in Queens a red light has emerged on eastbound Merrick Blvd at Baisley Blvd. The DOT recently installed a left turn signal on Merrick at Baisley, so looks like they've really got their attention on that intersection.
Mark
Stopped by the intersection of Merrick blvd and Baisley blvd in Queens today. The camera Q5Merrick spotted is definitely a fake. Does anybody know if Queens received other dummy camera's installed at the intersections?
BIG AL
We're getting 200 fake cameras around the city.
We're getting 200 fake cameras around the city.
Wow, that will be a lot of fake pictures!
That's okay. The tickets are also fake.
LOL to all of you.
There's a fake camera at the Q30/Q31 northbound stop at Utopia Pkwy. and Union Tpke.
Just spotted another fake recently installed on Southbound Francis Lewis Blvd at Jamaica ave on the Q77 route.
BIG AL
they way you know a fake from a real is buy looking in the crosswalk. if you don`t see the thin box inbeded in the roadway(metal detector) then the camera is fake.i know the one at avenue h is real because it was suppose to be installed about 3 yrs ago.
Add to the fun:
Main Street Northbound at Union Turnpike.
Though it is the older style "box" camera, and thus may be a dummy, I still wouldn't want to find out the hard way that is isn't a dummy camera.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Alot of cameras going up you guys are mentioning in the posts are probably dummy cameras. One (dummy)was just put up on Ocean ave at Ave U facing the Northbound traffic. The other (dummy) is on Flatbush ave at ave K facing the Northbound traffic also.
The way you can tell if the camera is a dummy or real is easy.
1) the dummys have a blinking red light on the front right top corner which is supposed to make the average Joe think it's doing some kind of function. Real cameras have no flashing lights at all other than the flash bulbs used to take your picture.
2)real cameras have the sensors embeded in the roadway right before and right in the intersection being photographed. These are what triggers the camera. The sensors are very obvious. No sensors = fake camera!
3) Where the actual camera goes into the ground, you should see a trench of new cement leading up to the pole, which is where the wires would have been run. No trench = fake camera.
4) as mentioned above, you should see some kind of flash unit to take your car's picture. No flash unit means fake camera.
In my opinion, the fake cameras look absolutely ridiculous and don't appear to be fooling anybody. When I first saw it 2 weeks ago, (they went up on when I was on vacation) I just started laughing, especially with that joke of the red blinking light on front.
Anyway, I hope this information makes it easier for you guys to tell the difference between the real ones and the fakes, not that anybody should be running the red lights to begin with.
BIG AL
that camera is at avenue h not avenue k.
Ooops, my bad. You're right.
BIG AL
i confuse those streets all the time lol
I have a question about NJ Transit buses when they approach grade crossings in Newark, Belleville, or anywhere in New Jersey, for that matter...
I have seen countless buses, mostly 1996 and 1999 Novas and the occasional Flxible at the grade crossing at the Spring Lake Station on the Newark City Subway, opening their front doors before they reach the crossing and then close them after crossing it...any reason you all can give for why NJT buses do that? Very interesting thought to me, and it would be greatly appreciated if someone cleared it up for me...
Thanks
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Probably to see if there are any trains coming or to better hear any train horns. I don't think SEPTA operators do that to go to that extreme (ie. opening doors at rail crossings), but they are required to stop. (I've also seen school buses open their doors when they stop at a rail crossings, so it's not really all that unusual.)
The reason drivers do this is because, the novas, mci's and metro d's, when you open the front door, the hazards go off, this is why drivers open the doors early on buses, so they don't have to turn on the hazard lights, they are going off once the doors open, also we figure we have to open the doors to look for train crossings, and sometimes, they forget to turn the hazards off, and have to drive around with the hazards on, so once you close the door the lights are off. it is kind of a better method.
Tony M.
I don't think Orions have that feature. The door does not open until the bus stops moving. At least with the LI Bus CNG's.
no it is njt policy to stop at light rail crossing. this is new we started out not having to stop. but njt feels it safer this way. all equiptment the nova A's,B's flx D's and mci D's are equipted with hazard light door combo. we do it this way (opening the doors instead of using four-way switch because we're lazy or in a rush. hope this answr=ers your question.
I've seen alot of school buses do this in PA...
In many states, it's required for school buses to stop open their doors at a railroad crossing.
they should it's pennsylvania law.
it's a state law in alot of places........hazards, open doors, pull to the right as much as possible
That had been a federal law from the ICC days, applicable to interstate carriers, which NJT is. Those regs were turned over to the states, and NJ continues to observe the law as it was written. The idea behind opening the door is to give the driver an unobstructed view to the right, since many bus doors had window arrangements that would prevent this (think about a standard door MC-9 or a GMC Old look).
>>> That had been a federal law from the ICC days, applicable to interstate carriers, which NJT is <<<
I was surprised recently the first time I saw a bus not open its door at a RR crossing. Back in the ‘40s, every bus stopped and opened the door at a rail crossing. Of course back then, the visibility through the door windows was nowhere near what it is now, and grade separations between rail and road were fewer, so there were more grade crossings on frequently used tracks.
I was so used to seeing the driver open the door on buses at rail crossings that the first time I rode in a private car in 1947, I expected the driver to stop at a RR crossing, and therefore to be helpful opened the righthand door when we were about to cross the tracks. Fortunately the driver was going very slowly because it was a rough grade crossing, but I was chastised for my "helpfulness" and was not allowed to sit next to the door any longer.
Tom
Yeah school buses do that too. MTA LI Bus does not open the doors most of the time, but they definately stop since that is the law.
I've seen school buses do this a lot; it may be standard procedure with some carriers. Also, many WMATA drivers do this at difficult (unregulated) intersections, simply to get a clearer view free of the obstructing door frames. I've noticed this particularly at McKinley St. & Military Rd. NW, for those of you familiar with the DC area, on the E lines and M4, where drivers must force their way into 40-mph traffic that doesn't stop, which often takes two lanes to do because of the bus' large turning radii. (it's a 90-degree turn, right or left.)
c
In Arizona All In Service Buses (School, Transit, Paratransit (Van & Bus), Intercity (Greyhound, Tour)) Must Stop at All RR Grade Crossings and Open Front Doors. Out Of Service Buses Are Exempt.
woman killed in bklyn by b36 bus on nostrand avenue and avenue z. i just heard about this while watching the news.
If I heard the report correctly, the operator didn't even realize he'd struck a pedestrian. I understand they're conducting a line investigation and bus-body inspection. Poor woman.
I'm sure NY1 and the post will have reports online.
that is what i heard, the driver had to be stopped.
Last night at 7:00, the History Channel had "Buses" on Modern Marvels. They talked about the buses and how they are built. From Blue Bird to MCI's. They did not talk about the MTA-NYCT but they kept bragging about the MTA Los Angeles. You all know that we have better buses than LA! What's up with that. Anyway, the show was cool. I do not know when the show comes back on so check your local listings! I recommemd it to all the BusFans. They even showed GMC's Future bus..."Progress to ....something (I forgot, sorry). But those buses had a stage in them, COOL!
No repeat showings according to the History Channel website. :(
JD
Poop. Did anyone get it on tape?
-F.
Dish Network Has History International They have aired "Buses" several times as part of the Voyages Series. (Voyages aires M-F 3 times Daily Buses have aired 4 times in the last 3 months)
It'll repeat again in a few months. I saw it before.
Modern Marvels airs weekdays at 1PM and repeats the same episode at 7.
I used to have a manual Season Pass for it on my TiVo and caught every episode, but then I got bored of it.
Awesome! Were there any New Looks or ADBs?
-Fred
Well, they just showed some of the older buses from the 1900's, 1920's up to the 1960's. In fact, they did show the New Look's but not building them. They focused on MTA Los Angeles though, that sucked! LOL!
article from last august in the post
CITY EYEING DECOY STOP-LIGHT CAMERAS
New York Post; New York; Aug 22, 2001; KIRSTEN DANIS;
Abstract:
With state lawmakers refusing to let the city install more real cameras - there are now 50 at key intersections - Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall says she'll decide next month whether to set up 200 decoy cameras to fool lead-footed drivers into stopping at red lights.
Robert Cook, an aide to Assembly Transportation Committee Chairman David Gantt (D-Rochester), said lawmakers are concerned the cameras could replace cops and tread on civil rights - and that they are used mostly to churn up revenue.
Full Text:
(Copyright 2001, The New York Post. All Rights Reserved)
City officials are considering putting up "dummy" sky-spy cameras to slow drivers gunning through red lights, officials said yesterday.
With state lawmakers refusing to let the city install more real cameras - there are now 50 at key intersections - Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall says she'll decide next month whether to set up 200 decoy cameras to fool lead-footed drivers into stopping at red lights.
"There are some pros and cons to it," said Weinshall's spokesman, Tom Cocola. "It could be perceived as a little misleading on our part to put up a camera that doesn't work."
San Francisco, Alexandria, Va., and Toronto are among the bigger cities using dummy cameras in their red-light programs.
The city installed 30 of the cameras in 1994 and added another 20 last month.
They photograph the license plates of violators, who are then ticketed in the mail.
Last year, some 220,000 fines were upheld, netting the city about $9 million.
DOT officials wanted to boost the number of cameras to 100, but the Legislature put up a stop sign to the plan.
Robert Cook, an aide to Assembly Transportation Committee Chairman David Gantt (D-Rochester), said lawmakers are concerned the cameras could replace cops and tread on civil rights - and that they are used mostly to churn up revenue.
He said: "We think there are other ways to get at the problem, with stepped-up law enforcement [and] greater education."
Traffic and safety analyst Charles Komanoff dismissed the decoy plan as "pathetic."
DOT officials should push Albany harder for the real thing instead of running the risk motorists will take their chances with the dummies, said Komanoff.
The new one on Staten Island at Amboy Road & Tysens Lane might be a dummy because I haven't seen the street torn up to connect it to anything. I don't feel like testing this theory however!
A little over three years ago, I blew through the red light at QB and Ascan(?) Ave (the first light east of Continental) at about 9:30PM. I was the only car that went through the intersection. The flash went off and I thought "oh poop" you saw the light listed on a website several days before. My next thought was that I'm tired and the $40 is worth it since there are no points on a license.
To date I never got the ticket in the mail, follow up notices or anything and I've registered the car twice since this occured.
Wonder if this spot is a dummy or was there a malfunction that night.
If there was a flash, then it is a real camera. Maybe the film didn't come out good or there was some other reason they may have decided not to go ahead with the violation against you. See my other post on spotting the real cameras from the fakes.
BIG AL
>>> San Francisco, Alexandria, Va., and Toronto are among the bigger cities using dummy cameras in their red-light programs. <<<
There are precedents for the dummy cameras. There have been places where a police car is parked near an intersection with a cardboard cutout figure in the driver's seat, and I remember reading about a town which in the days before radar had a fake front wheel of a motorcycle poking out from the edge of a billboard at the outskirts of town to get motorists to slow down. Locally, the police often set up unattended radar guns with a big sign telling you the speed limit, and a readout with your current speed as you approach the sign.
Tom
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A few questions:
On Saturdays, Command's eastbound BM1, BM2 and BM3 buses all have the same departure times from Manhattan - are these consolidated as one route, or does each route have its own bus?
Also, what streets does Queens Surface's QM1, QM2 and QM4 buses operate over on Saturdays? I couldn't find a map on their website.
Appreciate any help - thanks.
Jim D.
bm1,bm2 and bm3 have their own buses. i think they probably only have 2 buses out there-the headway is every 90 minutes-so command must assume it takes that long to get from brooklyn to manhattan and vice versa. im not sure about queens surface
Post- 9/11 (i think in Jan.) they divided the routes on the BM's. @ church/ocean pkwy, 2 buses went midtown-only, and 1 went downtown only. but again, that was manhattan- bound, on a weekday off- peak
>> Also, what streets does Queens Surface's QM1, QM2 and QM4 buses operate over on Saturdays? I couldn't find a map on their website.<<
The QM1/QM1A operates primarily along Union Turnpike to Queens Boulevard. Once on Queens Boulevard, it will stay on the main road until the L.I.E. westbound to the Queens Midtown Tunnel, then across 34th Street to Sixth Avenue north. On the return trip, it stay on Sixth Avenue north to 57th Street east to the Queensboro Bridge. It then stay on Queens Boulevard to Union Turnpike. Keep in mind that North Shore Towers runs stay on Union Turnpike to Lakeville Road, where as Glen Oaks bound buses turn on to 188 Street at Union Turnpike and meander through Fresh Meadows and a few other ares before winding up at 260th Street and Union Turnpike.
The QM4 is almost entirely on Jewel Avenue from 164th Street to Queens Boulevard, following the same routing as the QM1 from Queens Boulevard to Manhattan. On the trip to Queens, it also follows the QM1 routing up to Queens Boulevard and Jewel Avenue, terminating at 164th Street & the L.I.E.
Not having taken the QM2 ever, I can't comment in quite as much detail, but it generally on the Queens bound trip takes Northern Boulevard out to the Whitestone Expressway up to the Cross Island Parkway service road and them winds it's way to Bayside.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
There won't be any Queens Surface Buses running on Monday after 12 AM due to a possable strike. All I could say is that BE PERPARE TO BE LATE FOR WORK AND FIND OTHER WAYS TO WORK!
I got this from the Queens Surface Website. To see it. It's once you enter the website and scroll down to see it. The Website adress is www.qsbus.com
Saw a report on the news that if Bloomberg doesn't intervene to get a contact that workers will walk out. And knowing Bloomberg, he probably won't do anything (where's he hiding out anyway?)
They said that this strike affects the Queens DOT privates, so there's a good possibility that subways and NYCT buses will be packed come Monday in Queens.
This has been going on for too long, Queens DOT drivers deserve a contract and equal pay and benefits to NYCT drivers.
Even better, they should just integrate them to NYCT. That way, they get what you mentioned and they are put on the Taylor Law, so that they can never strike again...
You are advocating having the NYCTA take over the franchised routes. Not an easy thing to do since there is the issue of obtaining equipment to operate the routes. Easy enough since the DOT is a city agency that owns the buses.
However, where would you store and service the equipment? According to this board, several depots are already bursting at the seams. If you think you'll keep them at the existing "privates" yards, remember that real estate and buildings are privately owned and the TA would have to either buy the property at fair market value or rent the facilities or find other ones. Expensive proposition no matter how you figure it.
As far as integrating the drivers, remember that the TA drivers are represented by the TWU and most of the privates are, IIRC ATU. How do you solve that problem? How do you deal with the issue of seniority and picks? "Privates" drivers with many years service will not want to start with the TA with zero seniority.
Does anyone remember how the seniority issue was handled when FACC was taken over in 1962? Was that one of the reasons Mabstoa was formed?
Were any of the Ave B & E. Broadway drivers hired when the city took over those routes? How was the seniority handled then? I realize that AB&EB was a much smaller entity than FACC.
Lastly your take over happens and QSC disappears, what happens to our beloved Thurston? Does he get put out to pasture, a/k/a Sandoz ? LOL
The depots used by Queens Surface and Command Bus are owned by NYCDOT and presumably would be transferred to NYC Transit were NYC Transit to take over the routes and the equipment. As for the other depots, which are owned (last I checked) by the companies operating the routes, well, everything has a price.
In 1980, most if not all of the Avenue B & East Broadway drivers were indeed hired. They became MaBSTOA employees and started at the bottom of the seniority list. Even if that's not the way to go this time (if there is a "this time"), there are other viable methods for integrating employees of one operator into another operator.
As far as union representation goes, why should NYC Transit management care? Let the unions hash that out among themselves and then go to the Public Employee Relations Board with a solution (a vote by the employees would probably be necessary as well). NYC Transit doesn't get to decide which unions represent its employees.
David
I was wondering whatever happened to the Ave B & East Broadway Bus Company? I remember seeing some of their fleet in the area around City Hall a long time ago. I was beginning to think I had been dreaming about them.
I don't get the joke... Who is THURSTON!?!
Why he's a fellow Bustalker (and Subtalker).
Ah, I see. I don't frequent here enough, so thanks for clearing it up.
Ok, I must admit, you have built something up against my sparse claim. However, I will say something that has to be said. It is unfair that the bus riders in Queens must suffer over the qualms between the unions and the city. I completely comprehend the fact that the bus drivers need what they need, but that is no reason to disrupt the reliance commuters have in Queens. I'm sure you know that Queens, out of the other 4 boros, has the worst problem, in relation to bus service. So many bus lines to accommodate the huge boro, and with it, so much congestion. I think this strike is unreasonable when it comes to things like this.
THey work for a private company, which means they can strike to make their point, so they do.
<<< Queens DOT drivers deserve a contract and equal pay and benefits to NYCT drivers. >>>
Why do they 'deserve' this? If those employees wanted NYCT pay and benefits, they should've gone to work for NYCT. They knew they were going to work for a private entity, one that theoretically could even lose its franchise and put them out of work (although politically that would never happen, of course).
The appropriate comparison would be how their pay and benefits package stacks up next to other private entities - i.e., New York Bus Service, Liberty Lines, etc. I would bet that the QSC (and other franchise operator) drivers are well compensated.
Someone should also tell the drivers that it's a tough economy out there right now. Many people have lost their jobs, and some of us who are fortunate to still have a job have made sacrifices. I lost a week's worth of pay through a furlough last November, and we've already been told that all salary increases are frozen this year.
Jim D.
<>
Thats just wrong. Its NYCT's fault for not serving Eastern Queens to begin with! Why blame the bus drivers?? Someone needs to drive those buses no? They have been working more than a year and a half without a contract!! Wouldn't you want job security? think before making comments like that. They have a lot of money invested in pensions...and now the city is saying..."oh well...tough!" basically!
[Its (sic) NYCT's fault for not serving Eastern Queens to begin with!]
Some comments:
1. That should be "It's" rather than "Its."
2. NYCT's Queens Division DOES serve most of Eastern Queens. Maybe you meant Western Queens?
3. How is NYCT to blame if the NYCDOT carriers' drivers decide to strike? NYCT doesn't control those routes, or own the buses, or guarantee the companies' incomes. NYCT is just there, operating routes that the city's Board of Transportation took over once-upon-a-year because various private companies had gone belly-up. How does a simple accident of history create "fault" now?
[Some comments:
1. That should be "It's" rather than "Its."
2. NYCT's Queens Division DOES serve most of Eastern Queens. Maybe you meant Western Queens?
3. How is NYCT to blame if the NYCDOT carriers' drivers decide to strike? NYCT doesn't control those routes, or own the buses, or guarantee the companies' incomes. NYCT is just there, operating routes that the city's Board of Transportation took over once-upon-a-year because various private companies had gone belly-up. How does a simple accident of history create "fault" now?]
Some comments on your comments:
#1. Dont be a smartass. Everyone makes gramatical errors...get over it.
#2. No I mean Eastern Queens. In case you have not noticed, we do not have a subway out here...we have to rely on either the Express buses or the Long Island Rail Road.
#4. The city should worry more about the citizens in all the boroughs...not just the areas it thinks it is convenient. Like I said...somebody has to drive the buses of the privates...a comment like..."if they dont like what they are getting paid...they should not be working for the privates" is just wrong. These are franchises operating for the city...why should they be paid differently?
The city should worry more about the citizens in all the boroughs
It really doesn't, the result of a 104-year old mistake.
Some comments on your comments:
#1. Dont be a smartass. Everyone makes gramatical errors...get over it.
I agree. That wasn't necessary. At least you're easily understood and express yourself clearly. Spelling and grammar references are "supposed to be" taboo practice in usenet. Of course, this isn't usenet :-)
#2. No I mean Eastern Queens. In case you have not noticed, we do not have a subway out here...we have to rely on either the Express buses or the Long Island Rail Road.
Your reference was directed towards bus service, which is fully serviced by the NYCTA in eastern Queens.
#3 #3?
#4. The city should worry more about the citizens in all the boroughs...not just the areas it thinks it is convenient. Like I said...somebody has to drive the buses of the privates...a comment like..."if they dont like what they are getting paid...they should not be working for the privates" is just wrong. These are franchises operating for the city...why should they be paid differently?
You're not comprehending the situation. Employees who opt to obtain a position at a private agency are no different than any other individual who work in private industry, at any position. They are at the descression of their employer.
The franchise agencies are just that, a francise, and not a city agency. They are subsidized by the city, and operate according to DOT regulations.
"Somebody driving the buses of the privates" is not unlike somebody driving for J.B Hunt- they have a position at a private company and are subject to the rules of that company. They have union protection, but not civil-service protection.
The same (to a degree) also applies to MaBSTOA, which is not a civil service entity. It is, however, a city agency, unlike Queens Surface, for example.
My personal opinion of the private line possibly striking is as follows:
I do not agree with a strike based solely on an employee protection clause. These operators willingly applied for a position knowing full-well that their employment may be terminated at any time at the sole descression of their employer (within the limits of the Department of Labor guidelines).
If they wanted protection, all they had to do was take a civil service entrance examination as I, and many others have done. It was a quicker way to obtain a position at basically the same pay and benefits, without the wait.
To hold the commuters hostage and penalize them for a contract clause or option or benefit they never had is wrong. Dead wrong. Especially when they willingly applied for a position they could lose at the descression of the city or their employer.
However, if they strike due to collective bargaining issues such as health benefits, COLA adjustments, work rules, safety issues and/or the like, I fully support the effort 100%.
You should know that the privates were offered a similar contract to that of the city operators, yet they refused it and added that the contract be ratified only on the contingency that the EPP clause was included.
To date, Queens Surface, Jamaica Bus and Triboro Coach operators have been working without a contract for 16 months.
They are definitely owed a comparable benefit/contract package. However I disagree with the EPP clause as a contingency. Especially when a strike looms at the expense of the riding public.
That is why I think the private lines should be absorbed by the NYCTA. Even though I can't account myself for the other complex issues, what's the point of all the different regulations and setups. If everything was run by the NYCTA, it would be so much easier. If these franchises are subsidized by the city, then wouldn't it make more sense if the private lines were under city control?
Because UPS goes out on strike, should they be taken over by Federal Express, or the USPS?
Stop thinking of Queens Surface as a city agency. They are not. There is no difference bwteen QCS bus service and Academy bus service. If Academy went on strike, should NJT take over the lines? Of course not. The problem here is that a private company provides a public service. Just like commercial sanitation companies. When they strike, does the city take over those companies?
They are a private company whos employees have the right to strike.
You just mentioned the source of the problem, which feeds my arguments... ANY private company shouldn't have control of ANY public service. Can you imagine if the subways today were still controlled by their own independent companies (IRT, BMT, IND)? I didn't think so...
"You just mentioned the source of the problem, which feeds my arguments... ANY private company shouldn't have control of ANY public service."
Maybe you're right, but it is what it is. Of course you know that all bus service in NY was originally run by private companies. Companies that either went bankrupt, or were taken-over by the then newly created NYC Board of Transportation.
I'm sure you also know that the TA wants to disassociate itself from buses all-together by creating a new "Regional Bus Company" which would be independent of city service, and deemed (of course) a non-civil-service entity.
The TA doesn't want buses to begin with. They don't make money and they are a liability.
Even if the TA takes over private service in the short run, the long term goal is to privatize the entire metro area bus service.
Hmm, interesting...
Eastern Queens? Check a Queens Bus Map lately? There are parts of Queens that are served mostly by the private lines. But not Eastern Queens. Maybe you're thinking about a time years ago. Jamaica Buses went out on strike. Probably it was a long one. One day NYCDOT reassigned some of the routes to NYCT and has been that way since.
My understanding is that the stumbling block is benefits. The #1 issue for NYCT employees in their upcoming contract negotiations (current agreement due to expire 12/15/02) will be employee benefits as well. The benefit funds are virtually devoid of funds.
The number one stumbling block is the "Employee Protection Plan" (EPP) in which the last negotiated contract was contingent upon.
Failure to implement the EPP will result in this strike.
test message
Click on "http://www.ny1.com." and click onto the threatened bus strike story. The statement made by me is confirmed in paragraph 4, at least at the time I am posting this message.
Bill, it isn't a competition. I jut happen to know a bit about the goings-on regarding the issue. Neither the drivers, nor the union, are going admit they are striking(?) because of the EPP clause. There will be no public sympathy striking under that agenda.
My girlfriends' brother-in-law drives for Queens Surface. We had dinner the other night, and during our discussions, he reiterated the EPP clause as the sticking point. That's just the way it is.
I posted a link for Triboro Coachs' TWU membership. Have you read the page? I'll post it again. Maybe that will shed some light.
Remember, the media can only report what the union wants made public. The rest (and usually the true story) is left to those in-the-know. Now you know :-)
http://www.100megsfree3.com/dwanedoe/one.html
I'm here on the other side of the picket line ... they have been talking about staying out a long time ... could get ugly.
The object of a strike is to stay out until you reach a settlement that makes it worth striking for. Unlike us (who are penalized 2 days pay for every one day on strike [among other sanctions]), QSC drivers can reach a deal without penalty. Although they are subject to firings.
I just hope nobody gets hurt. These things have a way of getting out-of-hand at times. Especially a job action that lasts for any length of time.
Were you given a hard time crossing the line?
Not this AM, it's only the first day, so most waved hello.
If it goes on for a while they are going to get hungry. I've been on both sides of the line in my years in the Transportation industry. I hope THEY know exactly what they want ... if it's not too unrealistic I also hope the City is willing to give it to them, because onec we get past a couple of days it's a whole new ball game ... been there done that :-(
You know what they want. They want EPP and a contract comparable to mine. They also THINK they want to be taken over by the city- until they realize how lax the privates are in comparison.
They may get what they wish for... and that will be uglier than the strike.
Go here:
http://www.qvdepot.com/assault.html
Scroll down to the "Bill Search Form".
Click on "Private Lines" and you'll view the bill in the house regarding the possible takeover in (by) 2007
Roger T. is quite involved, so you MAY have a little of what HE thinks is good for them.
Some at this depot didn't agree with strike, I said when you are asked to say yes for a strike, say NO. The majority may still say yes, but then the majority may be with you. As a chief shop steward for the Teamsters, I didn't always agree with the leadership & expressed my opinion ... once we said NO to a dues increase. Some in that union were very happy when I went into management.
Why did take buses 5230-5249 away from Jackie Gleason Depot??? Why couldn't they give 20 8,000 series RTS buses to ENY???
Because the Department of Buses wanted to that's why. The same question could've been asked when those buses were moved from their original home in the first place, Kingsbridge. Besides, that move took place about two years ago.
Maybe JG will get 5230-5249 back come September for the B8. Then again, maybe they won't. That decision HAS NOT been made yet.
Mark
The main reason why 5230-5249 were chosen has most likely to do with the average age of the entire fleet of buses assigned to J.G. depot.
Transit tries their best, although we may think otherwise, to keep the average age of the fleet of buses assigned to all the depots pretty much the same. For instance, Jamaica depot has 50 1986 buses, 50 1996 buses, 50 1998 buses and 50 1999 buses. They add up the age of each year and divide by the number of different years. So we would have 16 + 6 + 4 + 3 divided by 4 = 7.25 years. That is what transit wants the avg age of the fleet to be in most depots. Sending the low 8000 buses away instead would have bought down the avg. age of the fleet in J.G. considerably so since J.G. has mostly CNG's which are new, the only way to keep the avg age of the fleet on par with everybody else would have been to send out 5230-5249. The only depot that seems to go against this rule is Casey Stengel depot.
BIG AL
Whoa!!!!
Heh heh heh, the average age of Fresh Pond's fleet is 10.36 years old. I just calculated this about an hour ago.
I saw 184 stall out in the Roslyn bus stop today operating on the N20 HICKSVILLE. Fortunately it started back up.
As I expected, LI Bus service has been horrendous this week. Loads of late buses, no shows, and breakdowns. All the newest buses are doing US Open service this week, resulting in us regular riders having to ride the old crap, mainly 100 series buses.
Fortunately I have experienced no breakdowns myself, but have seen other buses not show or running extremely late (20 minutes or more).
I had 164 stall out on me earlier this week, and while waiting in Roslyn today I saw 184 stall out. Also had a leaky 131 on the N20 this afternoon. Drops of water were coming from above the left rear seat.
Also saw 659 in Flushing today on the N21. I thought these were RVC buses, and RVC does not serve the N21. Well probably it was needed due to the bus shortage. 659 is one of the oldest Orion CNG's we have at LI Bus, and it is barely running.
The 100s are at least 7 years old, they need to be overhauled and new engines need to be put in or something.
Ah, but just think of all the dollars in purchases and tax revenues that are rolling in this week! Hopefully, LI Bus will benefit from some of that.
Jim D.
Hopefully. In the past county money has gone to ridiculous ideas, like the new big enclosed swimming pool in Eisonhower park, and proposed new Coliseum and hotels around Uniondale and other stuff for rich people. But that was when Gulotta was in office. He's gone now and hopefully the money will be put to improved mass transit in Nassau county.
There should be no more new development (residential and commercial) in Nassau county until the mass transit is improved. The traffic is just terrible, and maybe we need to force the County's as well as developers hands in getting an improved mass transit system Better buses and light rail seem to be the best idea.
Here's another transit-related dream I had the other night.
I was trying to get to Staten Island, to the corner of Yukon & Travis Avs (YES I KNOW THEY DO NOT INTERSECT, BUT THERE ARE NO RULES IN DREAMS!!!)
Apparently, there was some sort of UFO base/landing area around there. I was trying to figure out which express bus to take to get out there (either X1 or X8) - I remember one of them went all the way there, and the other short-turned somewhere else.
In any case, I took an express bus (old express RTS), but got off at the first stop on the Island, even though I was going to the other end.
After I got off, I got pissed cause I realized I couldn't get back on an express bus (except going back to Manhattan). But I was near a shopping center and saw a Dunkin Donuts, so I figured I'd go in there for a while and figure out a way to get to Yukon/Travis via local bus.
I go into Dunks and the guy behind the counter was overly-enthusiastic, practically jumping and screaming, "What can I get for you, guy!".
I said to him, "Iced Coffee" ... then, "You know what, screw it! Dunkachino! A Dunkachino and a cream cheese bagel!"
But I somehow wound up with a regular coffee and an egg-on-toast sandwich...
And that's pretty much all I remember.
Some weird stuff in reality earlier tonight, radio stations from Nebraska and Iowa were coming in on FM.
Also WNBC was momentarility over-ridden by Fox 4 Kansas City.
No wonder they use Hi-band (900Mhz) radio for TA buses. If they still used lower freqs they could be talking to the Omaha bus system.
Wow...what a dream! I have bus dreams all the time, but that one is just bizarre. A neat detail is that you were riding a bus made in....ROSWELL!
I had a dream not long ago that it was around 1982, I was five years old, my Dad was still alive, and what pulls up still fairly new and in current service? A Grumman! The "No Boundaries" rule certainly applied here; it was in original paint scheme and featured Alcoa wheels, which were not applied until much later....right before they were retired.
Sometimes you just don't want to wake up...
-F.
Tonight, I saw Orion Suburban 167 on the S54. I guess when it was repowered, the bus received a paint job also. The numbers on the side and front are the normal white (I believe Arial Font.)
In the rear, the font was different.
167 was in the format of the font used on the back windows of the fishbowls in white.
What type of font is this and the one mentioned previously?
Are these fonts available in MS Word, Publisher........?
You all know what I'm talking about. If any of you frequent the QS bus lines, such as I, you are sure to notice sometimes a couple of buses have this 'covering' on them. A huge advertisement, I've seen them cover the whole bus whenever it's an RTS. Though when it comes to their Orions, only the very middle is covered...
What is with this? How do they do it? Do you like such advertisements, or do you like the more discreet banner ads the NYCT sticks to all around.
It's also been happening with some of the Green Line Buses.
IIRC an advertising man once told me that those wraps are very expensive. They are printed on a thick plastic that must let light in so passengers can see out the window. There are design and productions costs to produce the wrap. Then there is the cost of applying the wrap to the bus, making sure the doors can open, various exhaust holes and vents are not covered up. There is the cost of renting the bus and the cost of removing the wrap when the rental period is up.
I asked if this is an effective means of advertising and he said yes because of the number of people that will see the ad in an average day.
The ads are printed on a special film made by 3M. The gigantic sheet is then cut into pieces and applied to the bus, keeping in mind that the portions over windows must have tiny holes to allow passengers to see out.
Wrapped buses were popular in the mid 1990s. Some transit systems still use wrapped buses to generate ad revenue, but most have curtailed this practice. Passengers don't like wrapped buses because they make it a challenge to see out the windows and communities do not like them because they are eyesores. Several large TAs, like NYCT and CTA, never allowed fully wrapped buses. WMATA tried a few, but outcry from the community reduced the presence of ad wraps to 9600-series Orion Vs about to be repainted to the new metrobus scheme (and that's all done now - no more wrapped buses in DC.)
I'm glad adwrapping is no longer trendy. A bus is designed to transport people, not to be a billboard. I think impairing the view to create a little more ad revenue is a disrespect to the customers. Not to mention, when a bus rolls by, onlookers should see the presence of transit, not the ad for some stupid hair care product.
I AGREE. BUT SOMEONE SHOULD TELL SUBURBAN TRANSIT OR COACH USA WHATEVER THIER NAME IS NOW.
Someone has just told you to turn off your Caps Lock.
-Hank
Wraps bring in MONEY that doesn't have to come out of the taxpayers pocket, what is a matter with that ?
When will the Department of Buses make a decision on how many more buses Jackie Gleason will get on 9/08/02 with the B8 going there.
Also, where is there room at Jackie Gleason to store the extra buses.
gleason is definitely getting the b8 . east ny has been ordered by dot to keep broadway open to traffic at nite. the rescinded the permit that allowed bway to be closed. it was to take effect on june 30 but the dot moved it back to sept 8. also if everything goes according to plan there should be no rts` left at gleason by sept.
No More RTS at Gleason??????? Gleason doesn't have enough buses to support the B8, so I heard that 5230-5249 will coming back to Jackie Gleason and maybe more.
after they get their new low floor orions they will not need any more buses. gleason is slated to be 100% cng. that means no more rts :)
I know that it's supposed to 100% CNG, but I don't think it will all done by September, as of right now, MTA only has 1 CNG low floor Orion, If you ask me, that statement about Gleason becoming 100% CNG, I think it's not gonna work out.
The fleet plan does not call for Gleason to be 100% CNG BY SEPTEMBER. Something (presumably RTSs, since some are there already) has to be there until the Orions arrive. They're scheduled to start arriving in the fall, but delivery won't be complete until several months later.
David
OK, hear we go again with the rumors. Who told you 5230-5249 were coming back to Gleason? Don't say Q5Merrick! He left a post that explicately said no decision has been made on what will be going to Gleason, Ulmer Park or anywhere for that matter. Bus moves are usually made on a last minute decision so I highly believe nobody at transit has decided on exactly which buses will be going back to Gleason. If Gleason is slated to get more brand new buses, then sending 5230-5249 back would seem highly improbable.
(see my other post about 5230-5249)
BIG AL
A person from SubTalk e-mailed me saying that 5230-5249 will be coming to JG.
what would jackie gleason depot need with 5230-5249 there getting other new buses?
that ture i though they wanted a CNG Depot #5230-5239 are not CNG and they is no Need for them to go to JG they have it cover with buses 190 C40LF, 91 Orion = 281 they got it
Yeah, 1 more thing, they are getting the B8 in September and need extra buses, and the rest of the new buses won't be here for a while, so they have to make do with the RTS buses.
Is the person from Subtalk John Walsh or a member of his staff? If not, don't believe it. Whatever will happen will happen when it happens -- and what that will be hasn't been decided on yet -- bank on it.
David
By 11:59 PM on 9/7/02. Read: At the last minute, just like all other DOB decisions.
For those of you keeping score, RTS # 3895 has been prepared for scrapping. All 126 and MTA logos have been stripped off the body and the radio and farebox have been removed. Personally, I'm not shedding any tears. Although the bus has provided NYCT with years of reliable service, as a driver, I won't miss driving this ancient decrepit vehicle.
hats the difference , all the rts are pices of junk.
DHF60 HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN AN OPERATOR? I'M NOT PICKING ON YOU BUT SOME THE BEST EQUIPTMENT IS OLD. TAKE THE FLXIBLE "NEW LOOK" THE PERFECT BUS. POWER SPEED SOLID AND TIGHT. THEY STILL SHOULD MAKE THEM LIKE THAT. AS AN OPERATOR YOU WERE IN CONTROL. NOT A COMPUTER. I DON'T HATE THE NEW STUFF, BUT I LIKE SOME OF THE OLD.THE RTS IS A RELIABLE BUS I AGREE. AS FOR THE COMMENT BY NEWFLYER I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU DRIVE AND IF SO HOW LONG?
Hi CAVALIERNJT. I've been a driver for almost 12 years. I agree with you on the Flxible New Look. I rate it and the GM New Look as the two best American transit buses ever built. The RTS is a very rugged and reliable bus but my gripe has always been with the ergonomics. It's just not a very comfortable bus to spend 8 or more hours in. I lamented the day that NYCT retired the last of the GM New Looks in 1995. Even they were more comfortable to drive than the RTS. I look forward to driving the articulated just because I know the ergonomics are far superior to those of the RTS.
if i As TA this is a Order i would Make What Do you Think
2002-03 Orion VI:7050-7299
#7050-7114 (65) are slated for Queens Village so they Can Retire they older Models Yes. #7115-7179 (65) are slated for Mother Clara Hale so they will Transfer They Orion to Other Depot Which I Do not Know who will Get what. #7180-7199 (20) are slated for Manhattanville to Start The Conversion. #7200-7299 (100) are slated for the Brand New Brooklyn Depot Which at This Time has no Name in which Fresh Pond will Be Transferred to the Queens Division
wHat Order Would u Make
WHat the hell? Where did you get this info from? How is it possible for Fresh Pond to be in the Queens Division. This doesn't make sense!
BTW, sorry for the double posts
He said he would do it 'if' he had the decision-making power. Judging by his post, he'll never have it.
-Hank
Thank you for clearing that up. :)
The problem is that you are replacing great buses with pieces of S#!t Orion 07.501s. You want to order from Orion, order something like the 05.501. OR better yet, leave Orion alone and go to NABI or Neoplan. Give them a shot in NYC.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Hey Trevor, I never said I liked the Orion7's, honestly I can care less what happens to them. I have no problms with Fresh Pond staying all RTS, but to get dumped with old crap all the time is just pathetic.
-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Burn in hell ^^^^3997^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Amen!!! ONIONS SUCK!
Just look at Triboro/Green Lines. Can you say blah??!!
#1979 X1
are they still building the orions in upstate ny? if they are that's probably why they purcased them. are they really as good good as I've heard in the snow?
They are still building them in Oriskany, NY. Now about the snow, the older pre-Orion Bus Industries Orions which was then, Bus Industries of America, seem to be the good snow bunnies. These new units tend to just ski like its the friggin' Winter Olympics over here!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I believe he had in the Post the Orion VI (6) Hybrid???
I personally like the hybrids.
the reason for the new depot in maspeth is to free up parking space for buses at the other 5 brooklyn division depots. it would take years before twu 100 would allow fresh pond to be transfered to queens division. :(
I think that someone should manufacture 5000 1990 RTS TMC 40-foot workhorses that are both comfortable and dependable and outfit the entire agency with them.
Then drop the rest of these garbage buses in the river next to the Red Birds.
If east new york is having space issue on broadway why house so many buses there. q24, q56, b25, b45, b15, b7, b40, b78, b83,b82, b12, b14, b17, b8, b20 and if i foegot please let me know and you would why It's over crowded. Besides taken the b8, b40, and b78 why not take the b45 and put it in jg depot. Most of jg buses go downtown brooklyn anyway. And the b82 put it back to UP it's closer to that depot anyway. ENY depot has too many series buses. I'm surpise they don't have any orion on the street for that depot.
I think the B82 would never go to UP because of space problems, they wouldn't be able to handle all those buses, ENY has alot of space so thats why its staying there. If they send the B45 to JG, they would need more buses, JG doesn't have enough space to accomodate all those lines, JG as it is already has the most of the lines in brooklyn. They currently have 17 Lines, and in September the will have the B8 which will make it 18 Lines.
ENY does not need 320 buses for 15 routes. 320 buses is enough to handle 20 routes. Fresh Pond only has 252 buses, plus many buses getting repainted and repowered, leaving only about 245. Do they have problems handling their 15 routes? no.
eny is losing parking of buses om broadway. dot has ordered them to reopen broadway at all times. it was to take afect in july but was moved back to sept. once they lose the parking outside they will no longer be able to handle all the buses. thus the b8 goes to jg.
The number of buses needed in a depot is based on the number of buses needed to serve each of its routes, allowing for a 20-minute "wraparound" for fueling/servicing before a bus that has just pulled in can go out again, plus a spare factor. The number of routes in a depot has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with the number of buses assigned to that depot.
David
These go to the Q32, Q24, Q54, Q56, Q58(I'm not surprised), for being some of the slowest routes in Queens. Trust me I'm know these routes, they have lots of problems., esp. the Q24, that route is garbage. The Q56 has problems on weekdays, during rush hours, and the F.K.Lane H.S. students don't make it any better. The Q58..., just ride it from Ridgewood and you'll get your answer. The Q32 definitely has problems, esp. when its heading out of Manhattan during rush hours.
However I don't see the problem with the Q54, sometimes it can be slow, but thats when its near Jamaica. Other then that I don't think it's that bad.
Personally, I felt the Q55 should have been listed, this route is the worst of the worst.
Before we discuss results obtained from "Straphangers", let's review the facts:
1- This data is over one year old, making it outdated.
2- The data was obtained from official NYCTA records, not from a third-party observer. We all know how the TA "embellishes" it's own recoreds.
3- The goal of NYCT is officially (publically) "safety". Schedule is last on their priority list of safety, service and schedule. Speed can only be combined with safety when factors we cannot control are done so by those departments (Police, DoT, etc). If bus lanes were clear, bus stops clear, and people observed the "enter front, exit rear" approach to bus riding, we'd move much faster.
I'd give more credibility to this "study" if the NYPIRG gave as much effort to advocating their agenda with the NYPD and DOT as well as the NYCTA. There's only so-much the TA can do. Maintaining the flow of traffic isn't one of them.
The Q54 loses time in Brooklyn on Grand St. due to double and triple parked cars. In Queens, on Metropolitan Ave. at Western Beef due to trucks, from 69th St. to 80th St. (Middle Village) and from Woodhaven Blvd. to Hillside Ave. (especially through Forest Hills) and from Jamaica/Van Wyck to Supthin Blvd. due to double parkers and narrow lanes.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_061502_busdriver.html
Here's a proper Link to the Page:
ENY bus driver cleared of charges
ALRIGHT. THIS A VICTORY FOR ALL OF US.BUS OPERATORS AND TRAIN CREWS ALIKE. IF ANY KNOWS THIS OPERATOR TELL KEEP HIS HEAD UP.I WORK IN NEWARK, NJ THE LOWEST POINT YOU CAN GET IN BUSES, I GO THROUGH IT EVERY DAY. OUR SO CALLED TRANSIT POLICE ARE THERE. AND THESE SMALL TOWNS ARE MORE OFTEN JUST AS BAD. MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO MR. PHILLIP. TELL HIM HE'S A HERO. THIS DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD ALL DO THIS BUT IT'S NICE TO KNOW HE HAD AN OPEN MINDED JURY.
LET'S BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.
Check out your keyboard. The Caps Lock key seems to be malfunctioning.
Tom
my link is fine just copy and paste it into your browser. its proper just not a link .
YOUR LINK IS GOOD ENOUGH. THANKS NEWFLYER.
no problem . just like to keep fellow drivers informed. be safe over there in nj.
ALWAYS. I GUESS THIS ANSWERS MY PREVIOUS QUESTION? NOW WHO ARE YOU WIYH?
Thanks for keeping us non-drivers informed too. This is a victory for the common citizen against the scum of the earth that the liberal anti-gun, anti-weapon lobby supports.
SORRY AMERICAN PIG. YOU ARE RIGHT. IT IS A VICTORY FOR EVERYONE.
It is a victory for all involved, and for those who are not directly involved. Here's another victory-in-the-making for those involved:
http://www.qvdepot.com/assault.html
As an aside, how many of you know that NYCT rules and regulations not only allow, but mandate that "unruly" and "annoying" passengers be removed from a bus, by the operator if necessary?
There is a big difference. 'Cleared of charges' says that he was suspected of a criminal act. What happened was the evidence was presented to a Grand Jury for review (a right set forth in the Fifth Amendment), and POSSIBLE charges if the Grand Jury feels that there is probable cause to prosecute an offender ('True Bill'). If the GJ votes 'No Bill', then they believe there isn't sufficent cause to prosecute someone.
There's a ton more info on how it works, but it's way too extensive to get into here.
-Hank
yawn
May you never get arrested.
-Hank
hank, why you`ve been?
No, but I was temporarily detained once (and my film was confiscated) by Federal correction officers outside of the MCF in Brooklyn during an Al Sharpton support protest while he was imprisoned for protesting in Vieques.
More importantly, it never hurts to know your rights.
-Hank
Has there been any talk about moving the B43 to Fresh Pond Depot.
no
The only talk about that is YOUR talk. This is precisely how rumors start. In 2 days somebody else will say that "I head the B43 is going to FP......"
Thanks Bill. This has been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now. Where these guys are getting this information on bus moves and line moves is beyond me. One guy posts he would like to see a bus moved to a depot and the next guy reads it and posts he read that the bus IS moving to that depot. Now we have a guy on this board who says somebody from SUBtalk told him 5230-5249 is going to Jackie Gleason. Who this subtalker is I have no clue but I'll bet it is somebody who would be better off just sticking to matters of subtalk.
BIG AL
Can someone please post up the correct bus roster fleet for both Castleton & Yukon Depots.
The Depot & Depot Bus Roster fleet by Mark Holmes is incorrect.
Yes, they are incorrect because between the time that roster was issued and now, there has been several movements, the roster will not be updated again until all of the new MCIs are in, and then we can assure you a proper roster...Until then relax.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"The Person In Charge Of Posting The Roster to TT"
www.transitalk.org
Give the man a chance to update at his leisure.......he doesnt have to share ANY of the info he has with any of us......you are not paying him to provide a service to you......calm down
Thank You for the back up, Very much might I add, but please be a little careful with what you say here, fights tend to start pretty easily here and I don't want to be the cause of one.
Thank You again!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Just in case you don't know this I am the author of the NYC Transit Bus Roster. Castleton and Yukon Depots are changing almost daily with the arrival of the new MCI's, and the re-deployment of the Orion V's.
As of now, Yukon operates the following RTS's: 4011, 4148, 4463, 4524, 4892-4897 and 8293-8315 (8316 was scrapped). Yukon's Orions are: 120-121, 123-137, 139-141, 468-470 and 6327-6349.
As for Castleton, looks like they are operating 145, 155-172. I am assuming that the other 1993 Orion soft seaters are being stored.
Instead of being negative, why don't you alert me to any changes that you may have noticed. I live in SE Queens, which a good 25-30 miles from either SI depot. I get a lot of my info from observations that other's on this board have made, and I don't respond well to negative people, so be governed accordingly!
Mark A. Holmes
here here, mark!!
All Busfan wants to do is ask questions and be handed the answers on a silver platter yet not contribute a single thing to this board. Do you "follo" me?
Sure do-2 words-Kill-File!
#1979 X2
i was kinda thinking 'halsey' myself
Why was 8316 scrapped?
8316 was rear-ended by a garbage truck a few months ago.
I wonder how bad 8316 was damaged? I remember 8120 and 8492 got hit by garbage trucks and they were brought back to service. Why not 8316? And what was she doing at MHV in the 1st place? She should've been in SI with her mates 8293-8315.
If she's a goner-oh well.
#8316 M3
Anyone planning to attend this years roadeo next Saturday the 22nd? Hope to meet some of you guys there!
IS THAT YOU TBVE?
It's me I forget to put my name down at times.
T.Beverett
ARE WE THE ONLY NJ TRANSIT MEMBERS? IF NOT SOUND OFF.....
Does NJT Rail count? If so, I qualify!
NJT Bus Operator Right Here
Tony M.
Meadowlands Garage
We were looking for all NJT employees to sound off. Happy Father's Day to all who are out there.
T.Bernard Beverett
Fairview Garage
Same Here
HAPPY FATHER"S DAY to all the father's out there!
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
DID YOU ENTER?
No I was out of town during the qualifying week. Besides none of the fairview buses are worthy of having my name on the side of it lol.
3511 Is, That's My BABY!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
3511 was my baby also but they did something to that bus and the take off and the rear door fell off. Before you came to Fairview I used to butter up the pullout person to get that bus or would move 2 or 3 buses to get it. Didn't they send it to cp
Na, 3511 is still alive and well from what I saw at CP.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I miss that bus because I had some good times with it. One summer I did 16 trips on the 128 blvd east and then I went to great adventure with it.
I understand that quite a few of the 3500s and some 3000s are now at Caven Point. Does NJT plan to reassign some of those to other garages (ie. South Jersey)? Of the 3000s, I noticed that 10 of them have w/c lifts, so I would hope they're not off roster permanently (this is based on info I recieved from NJT yesterday; time permitting, I'll update my NJT fleet list to reflect some of these moves; I didn't get the Private Carrier Affairs listing, so I'm going to hope that there've been few changes on that side).
Do you know the exact ones, down there at the lot, if you post the numbers please! I wanna know what Flxibles got down there.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
Flxible 40096-6T (Metro B Suburban; 3000 series): 3003, 3015-3016, 3018-3019, 3024-3025, 3027, 3031, 3044, 3046-3050, 3060-3061, 3064, 3070, 3073-3074, 3080*, 3093*, 3097, 3101*, 3106, 3113-3114, 3316, 3117, 3120, 3122, 3162, 3167-3169, 3171-3174, 3176-3177, 3185, 3187-3188, 3191-3192, 3200*, 3216, 3263*, 3266*, 3268*, 3271*, 3276*
* - Equipped with wheelchair lifts, and could possibly be reassigned to other garages
Flxible 40102-6T (Metro B Suburban; 3500 series): 3506, 3511, 3514, 3516-3520, 3522-3524, 3526-3527, 3529-3536, 3539-3540, 3543, 3545, 3551-3555, 3557-3558, 3560, 3563, 3567, 3572, 3574-3575, 3578-3579, 3593, 3599, 3602
Okay, so now I'm understand that Caven Point is a storage yard like Carlton Av in Brooklyn is for the MTA-NYCT buses? Those Flxibles are in storage and will not be scrapped but will be sold to other companies? Wow! NJT does not mess around!
Good thing too. Flxibles should never be scrapped!
-Fred
It seem that the best running buses ae the ones down at CP . As far as Fairview is concerned.
I don't think that 3093 will be used anymore because it was a transfer from Market street to fairview but it was constantly breaking down so it was sent with 3120 to Cp.
T. Beverett
What is going on with 3093? That is the only NJT bus I have ever ridden (on the 175 on September 4, 2001). I think the 175 is Market Street, isn't it?
I am not by any means an NJT expert.
No I totally i agree with you....You are so right, they sent soem of our best Flxibles down there like 3064 she is the best and 3276 another good bus......wtf is wrong with my garage for getting rid of such great Flxibles.........
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
I wonder if the Southern Division will get any of these buses? We're always short of Suburbans down here, and if Management would go on and equalize the fare policies on the routes to/from Philly (all Newton Ave routes to Philly are exact fare except the 316/17/18 and the 409, none of Washinton Twp routes have the policy, but candidates are the 400/403/406/459/463, plus any route carved out of the 401/02/10/12 that runs to Woodbury only [the ex-411]), we could provide a home and use of these buses. Also, the Newton Av lines uses RTS transits on the long 413/419 lines. Maybe more Suburbans will make these lines a little more comfortable.
You have 97 units listed there.... Since the option was exercised on the MCI order, I think it's safe to assume that the worst Metro Bs are officially dead, replaced by MCI D4000s. Meadowlands replaced their Volvo suburban artics with D4501s, after all. These 97 units could very well be auction material now. This could mean the next suburban order won't have to replace all 384 units - an order of 300 could be sufficient.
Awesome! I assume these are the ones still in active service?
Actually, Caven Point is the acceptance/retirement lot for NJ Transit. I don't know if those Flxibles will be reassigned or if they're being taken out of service. A few of those Flxibles at Caven Point are from private carriers.
Can anyone from the Area stop by. I like 10min from the Depot, I would like to see how a NJT Roadeo runs.
Robert
The NJT Roadeo is open to the public; I might be attending, but it depends on certain factors which shall not be posted here. If you do attend, you will have to park at the Howell Park and Ride lot located on US 9 less than 1/2 mile north of Howell Garage. A free shuttle bus will operate between Howell P&R and Howell Garage.
What Lines go to Howell Park And Ride? Is it the 139? If so,Can I just transfer to the roadeo shuttle from there?
139 from New York and 67 from Newark pass by Howell P/R. And yes, you can transfer to the Roadeo shuttle there. Just ask the operator of the 139 (or 67) to get off near Howell Park & Ride for the Roadeo shuttle.
I sure hope they will be saved. Wonder what one would go for?
I spoke to a friend of mines at Greenville garage this morning and we had a small discussion about the Metro B suburbans that are down at the lot. I brought up 3003 which was last at Greenville and he told me that this particular bus had a engine failure and Greenville sent this unit to Cavens Point. So hopefully some of these units with Lifts can be put back into service.
Peace!
DaShawn
DaShawn, please e-mail me; I need to get in touch with you.
-Fred
I spoke to a friend of mines at Greenville garage this morning and we had a small discussion about the Metro B suburbans that are down at the lot. I brought up 3003 which was last at Greenville and he told me that this particular bus had a engine failure and Greenville sent this unit to Cavens Point. So hopefully some of these units with Lifts can be put back into service.
Peace!
DaShawn
Dashawn the other Greenville bus you should check on about that is at Caven Point is #3015.
I remember the #3001-3015 batch when it was at Ironbound. Not many of them went out when they were there. I know 3001 was occasional on the 62 short trips from Penn Station to Newark Airport. They also did a few 81 trips. I remember seeing a couple times when Metro-D's weren't available did that rough 62 trip from Newark Penn to Woodbridge Center. When that did happen, you can guarantee the bus was running late since most of those were very slow.
Jason
I'll Be There, Believe THAT!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Ex-NJT Fairview Employee
Rockland Coaches Bus Operator
www.transitalk.org
COMPETITION!!! I don't think I can make it :-(, Bus Festival in brooklyn, then I'm going to shoot some black and white of the mermaid parade in coney island...
ANYONE PUT IN FOR AMTRAK, METRO-NORTH, OR LIRR?
Is it really true that the Vintage 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model bus #3758 really made it to this years 2002 New York City Transit
Bus Roadeo at Floyd Bennett Field?
No it did not make it to the Roadeo but it may make it to the BusFest on Saturday. Only time will tell.
#1979 X1
The new Transit Museum brochure says that they have 19 vintage buses in their fleet. At the Roadeo there were about 12 including the 1917 "Queens Anne", several GM old looks, Fishbowls & the Grumman Flexible.
They looked very nice all lined up. Most drove in, that must have been a treat for the driver.
What private companies were there in Queens? I know there is the Triboro and Green Line and Jamaica. Queens Surface I know is Steinway and Queens something else combined. There was also the North Shore that centered around Main/Roosevelt. There was another one out of Jamaica Terminal that went to Long Island. I believe it was taken over by what is now MTA LI Bus. And I think there was a small company that ran along Atlantic or Jamaica. It had a long name that had in it somewhere the word "relief".
Were there any other companies?
Does anyone know if the Mack C-49 bus or any other close Mack model has ever been made as a scale model? I know Corgi has done the old look GM, the fishbowl and the new RTS, but what I really would love to see would be a Mack model. I still remember the old 6000 Macks coming out of Ulmer Park Depot.
IMHO, in looks and running they sure beat the old GMs hands down.
Hot Lunch!
First, Corgi has NOT done the GM/TMC/Nova RTS in any way, shape or form. They have done only the GM Old Look and GM New Look.
Sorry to say, no models have ever surfaced of Mack buses other than the cardstock ones at the bus roadeo recently.
I remember those 6000 series Macks when they were BRAND NEW!! They ran past my school on the B8. Yep, nothing beats 'em -- I also rode MANY of San Francisco's Macks...sure do miss them, but what replaced them -- the "Big Red Noisemaker" T8H5305's -- were just as interesting.
Steve,
Thanks for the reply. I sure hope in the future someone decides to produce a model of them. I was born in 1956 and lived in Bensonhurst, so I was lucky enough to ride those Macks before they went to Staten Island to finish out their careers. Was just as lucky to ride the BMT ABs and D-types on the West End, Sea Beach And Brighton lines. Great memories all around. BTW Steve, why did Mack get out of the bus business?
Mike AKA "Hot Lunch" Herer
Today, I took a Ronkonkoma train to Farmingdale to photograph more LI buses that I ever saw in one place !
All the US Open specials were the newest Orion CNG buses with a few lower 300 series CNG's thrown in. The highest numbers I saw were 389, 390 & 391. The destinations signs either weren't working or weren't programmed. I saw a man with a NYCT Buses windbreaker. Was NYCT buses involved ?
The trains came in and unloaded golf fans by the numbers. There was a security tent for checking attendees for anything suspicious. Thank 9/11 for this.
The LIRR and LI Bus coordinated this very nicely and moved the hundreds of spectators very nicely. There even was a on site bus mechanic, just in case. The Farmingdale station and station railing was decked out in red, white & blue bunting.
After this, I sped over to Parking Field 4 at Jones Beach State Park. Now if over the road buses is you forte, this is the place. Numerous charter buses from Dattco, DeCamp and Academy ruled the road. It seemed all of Academy was in force, with all different paint schemes and models. There was Eyre from Maryland and a couple charter buses from Pennsylvania.
The highlight was artic's in red, white and black paint. Forgot the name of the operator. Think it was a college name. There were two types, an older M.A.N and a newer type that looked like a low floor. The LED signs looked nice. There were no LI Buses serving the Jones Beach shuttle.
Tomorrow is the last day of this and everything goes back to normal.
Bill "Newkirk"
Those are Rutgers MAN SG-310 Artics you spotted today sir!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
>>Those are Rutgers MAN SG-310 Artics you spotted today sir!<<
The Rutgers name came to mind before I logged onto Bustalk this morning.
The M.A.N. artics were the old ones with the small flip dot signs. What about the new artic's that looked like low floors ? They had real bright LED signs that lit up "Jones Beach".
It's quite a haul from Jones Beach to Bethpage State Park. I never seen so many Academy buses in one hours time that I was there. It was like all of Academy was out there ! You should have been there.
Bill "Newkirk"
Well those are the all New, New Flyer D60LF Articulateds for Rutgers University also. And here is a little tidbit, Those M*A*N SG-310 Articulateds you saw from Rutgers are actually ex-Seattle METRO artics.
And another tidbit, now I got word that the TA may borrow two of those Academy-Rutgers NFI D60LFs for a try out on the Bx12, as New Flyer is trying to break completely out of the high floor market. I don't know how true it is, but the word was passed down to me about three-four weeks ago, I was skeptikal about saying something about because of this "rumor" thing going on, so I'm covering myself in saying that it was just passed down to me by a VERY reliable source.
Academy is great when they do shuttles, I guess they brought some of the Rutgers stuff to show off!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Well, that appears to be the case, as the New Flyer web site only lists low floor models. Your source appears to be right on the money (as far as New Flyer building high floors; can't speak about the Bx12 rumor though)...
Do you know which Seattle Metro artics became which Rugetrs artics?
I D K, but if we can get some V I N numbers then we can maybe do some kinda research as to what was what.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
When I was at Rutgers within the past year, I recollect that you can see the old Seattle numbers on at least some of the MAN Artics if you look very closely (or on the roof).
I saw 6 Atriclateds buses on the Guanis(Sorry Bad Speeler) Expressway at about 11:00pm, heading to the VC Brige. I could not make out the wording on the since I was on my G train going into Smith & 9th Street. The paint job looked like a new NJT paint job. Could these have been the buses heading back to Rutgers buses going back there.
Robert
P.S. They did look like a M.A.N. bus from the the view I had.
Robert
The MAN Artics sport a special red, black and white Rutgers paint job that is quite attractive. They are stored in Perth Amboy, NJ, so that is very likely what you saw when you saw it.
Those were the color that I made out, so Is was the buses from Rutgers. They look like nice buses.
Robert
Let us know if you post these to the net, I'd like to see them.
This confirms the newest buses are doing the US Open service. Well one more day of riding the old garbage on my route. Actually today I did ride on #303, so there are some newer buses doing regular service.
The highlight was artic's in red, white and black paint. Forgot the name of the operator. Think it was a college name. There were two types, an older M.A.N and a newer type that looked like a low floor. The LED signs looked nice.
The artics in question are owned by Academy and used on the Rutgers shuttle service at the New Brunswick campus.
There were no LI Buses serving the Jones Beach shuttle. Tomorrow is the last day of this and everything goes back to normal.
That's probably because the Farmingdale shuttle was coordinated by MTA and the Jones Beach shuttle was probably coordinated either by the USGA or the park reps.
BTW, the low floor artics are from New Flyer...
Is the Brooklyn Bus Depots going to see any relief in overcrowding in the depots, especially in Ulmer Park, Flatbush & East New York from now until Maspeth Bus Depot opens in 2005 or no.
Hey let me throw my never gonna happen idea out there .
Why dont D.O.B. let Fresh Pond take a stab at the B 60 ?
They could run on at Wilson Ave and run off at the Willi B plus help with those 39 trips . As far as space goes , isnt there room up on the tracks behind the maintnence bays to park buses ?
Can anyone answer these questions about NJT?
1)What's going on with the replacement of the Flxible Suburbans? Will they decide on a manufacturer? Who will it be? Or will they try to squeeze another 5 or 6 years out of them?
Will any of the D4500"s be assigned to South Jersey? At this time of year, the 551-Philly to AC gets mighty crowded, also see how busy the 553 gets, for a line that goes through the sticks, it's quite a busy line.
And see if anyone has any literature on the SJLRT route. There are none down here in Camden and environs, and they need to start preparing people to get to ride this thing if it is going to be successful.
Supposedly, the 1989 Flxible rep[lacements will go to bid later this year. Not many companies build a high-floor transit-based suburban, but look for Neoplan to use their recent artic order as a negotiating point (suburban artics using same parts as suburban 40-footers).
No 45s are planned for south Jersey. NJT will only have about 100 for themselves, so the north Jersey routes to PABT will have the exclusive on them.
That SNJLRT is likely going to go the route of the DMV emissions contract and EZPass... it will cost way too much money, will go into overruns and subsidies, and finally, Trenton will demand answers.
This is directed towards those who already operate the new MCI express coaches for NYCT, however a few of you may already be familiar although not an operator:
What is the "Tag Axle Lock Switch", and what is its function?
Does the "Interlock Bypass" allow motion with the doors open, or wheelchair extended?
What is the "Message Center Switch" and how is it used?
Does the placement of the "Alternate Horn" interfere with the placement of your coffee? <- important question ;-)
Are the same "emergency switches" installed in the MCI as other models?
Are they governed? If so, at what speed?
Thanks
I can answer the first two:
The Tag Axle Lock Switch prevents the rear axle from steering. Under normal function, it turns opposite to the front axle when the driver turns the steering wheel to help reduce the turning radius. Locking the axle keeps the tires straight at all times.
The Interlock Override allows the bus to move with the doors open, but it supposed to only be used in emergencies (to get the bus out of the way of something, for example)
The Tag Axle Lock Switch prevents the rear axle from steering. Under normal function, it turns opposite to the front axle when the driver turns the steering wheel to help reduce the turning radius. Locking the axle keeps the tires straight at all times.
Interesting. Is there a different "feel" while the switch is active?
The Interlock Override allows the bus to move with the doors open, but it supposed to only be used in emergencies (to get the bus out of the way of something, for example)
Gotcha, same as any other model.
Thanks for the input. Greatly appreciated :-)
Anyone have answers to the other questions?
I've driven other brands of buses with the Tag Axle Locks...and never noticed any difference in the feel of driving.
Not sure if the NYMTA MCI's have the feature, but most buses that have the steerable tag axles also have an automatic lockup above 30-35 miles an hour anyway (as do the artics for the bus joint).
they are governed at 58mph,which may be adequate since you use queens parkways but is woefully inadequate for nj turnpike.
Thanks. The 58mph that they are governed beats the 40-45mph I'm accustomed to, although I don't usually operate express service.
Making up another pop quiz ?
Not at all! I haven't had my MCI training yet. I posted those questions based on a diagram I was issued of the operators compartment.
Since Ulmer Park has enough MCI buses, why not send the last 17 of the 2002 MCI buses over to Yukon Depot so express runs out of Yukon can get more increased service or just add a new express bus route from Yukon.
a good point and editorialized in yesterdays advance,however nyct refuses to expand service on staten island.
What other changes are in store for NYCT on 9/8/02 for buses in all 5 boroughs as well as the subways.
I checked out the Saturday's Staten Island Advance on the webpage & I saw nothing on editorialized about the MCI buses since I saw your post.
Can you please post on bustalk on what the article was about.
It was actually in Friday's paper. There is antoher editorial in Today's paper.
Friday http://www.silive.com/editorials/advance/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/102406500050360.xml
Sunday http://www.silive.com/editorials/advance/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/1024230601301451.xml
-Hank
Please post any information you might have.
No way Jose! The MTA better alocate more money towards having a third
New York City Transit Bus Depot on Staten Island. As it is, the Yukon Depot is forced to park many of their MCI model Express Buses outside just off Forest Hill Road. Several years ago there was some discussion about having a third bus depot built out in Charston near the Outerbridge Crossing. Yet, no more action has been taken.
Maybe you should check with the Staten Island NIMBYS to find out where it is ok to build the third depot. They seem to want more service, but don't want the depots to house and maintain the equipment needed.
Actually, they're busy fighting a shopping center that is proposed for the depot site, by asking where the depot is! Of course, the depot will be built somewhere else, where the same people will fight it.
-Hank
Enjoy The Photos!
*Note: Coach #70977, I used yesterday in my charter to Shea Stadium for the Subway Series Game, even though I drive for Red & Tan, when we need 45 footers with bathrooms and so forth, we borough buses from Short Line.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Borrow, not Borough, I was talking about Borough Hall to my little brother at the same time I was typing that, good lord!!!
Regards,
Trevor
You sure it wasn't BURRO????
I can't get the photos up.
Robert
As you probably know, 70977 is one of Short Line's newest buses - came in with about 10 others a few years back after Coach USA had bought out Short Line. I guess Rockland Coach will get its own 45-footers from the State in due course.
We already have 5 for training, I've been qualified on them about 2 weeks ago, but the kinky part is that I drove one of the Short Line Prevost XL-IIs in a charter to Philly way before I got "45 foot" qualified.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Earlier this month I visited the new updated edition of Trevor Logan's
"Transit Talk" Website. What really caught my attention was the expanded New York City Transit Bus Photo Gallery which featured many more photos of NYC Transit's Vintage General Motors Fishbowl Buses.
The image that I really found interesting was the picture of the
Museum 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model former New York City Transit Authority bus #3758 taken outside the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot which showed the B74 Bus Route on top. Another thing I noticed was that this particular bus picture was contributed by Andrew Grahl.
Now, would anyone know if Mr. Grahl has any more photos left of TA bus #3758? And, how can I obtain any actual photo reprint of that
GMC 5303 model Fishbowl Bus?
Where exactly in the vicinity of the Outerbridge Crossing is the new Staten Island Bus "Annex" to be built at.
Also, I heard that the depot would be called a "Annex" & named the Yukon Annex, why is it being called a "Annex".
Is Ulmer Park Bus Depot going to receive anymore buses by 9/8/02 when they operate the F train Shuttle between Av X & Stillwell Av & will a number be operated for this route or will they use the buses they have at Ulmer Park.
Also, is Ulmer Park going to get the Brighton Beach to Stillwell Av shuttle bus.
all im certain about is that the shuttles are is that the F shuttle is gonna say "F train to Ave X/F Train to Coney Island." "Q train to Brighton Bch/Q train to Coney Island" whatever buses remain at the depot because all the other buses that went to their seperate routes are enough,then whatevers left will be used on either shuttle with buses from other depots as well.it happens that way when a shuttle bus is used in a G.O. example:A Train shuttle bus to Howard Beach or Beach 98th St.
this is the rumor that i heard through on eof the drivers at ulmer park-for the pick starting 9/8/02-these are the routes that Ulmer Park will have:
B1,B3,B4,B6,B36,B64,B74,X25,X27/X37,X28/X38,X29,"F" Shuttle.
thats all.
9302-NOVABUS-B64
Correct...except for the F Shuttle, which doesn't exist yet, all of those routes (and only those routes) are in Ulmer Park right now. In short, except for the addition of the F Shuttle, Ulmer Park's route roster will be exactly the same on September 8 as it is right now.
David
P.S. The X-25 isn't considered a route; it's a "branch" (sort of) of the X-29 -- it uses X-29 Bus Operators and buses and has no runs or extras of its own.
UP has to many express buses why don't east ny or jackie gleason depot have express buses coming out of there depot?
By what measure does Ulmer Park have "too many" express buses? Are we talking about the soft-seat RTS coaches that are being used in local service?
David
1. Are there any xpress bus routes out of ENY and JG?
2. You know that ENY cannot have their buses outside anymore, why would they more to clog the Bway Jct area???
25 years young today
Is the former New York City Transit Authority 1962 General Motors
TDH-5302 model bus #2151 still in operating condition? Or does this other Vintage GM Fishbowl bus also have mechanical problems? And would TA Bus #2151 be going to the NYC Transit Bus Fest on June 22nd?
Bus 2151 is a TDH-5301, (the TDH-5302 is a 96" wide bus, which the TA never operated) and I'm sure it still runs. NYCT's Ulmer Park Depot had a problem a couple of years ago with 1963 TDH-5303 #3758, and QV couldn't get their 1957 GMC #3100 started, but other than that, everything on mostly all the museum buses work--even the Grumman.
QV's #100 and 5117 runs
JAM's #1059 runs better than RTS 4580, I'm sure ;)
and my fave, UP's #8466, not only runs, but has working a/c!
>>everything on mostly all the museum buses work--even the Grumman.<<
What about thre Mack #6259 ? I understand there is a tranny problem, can't get out of first gear ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Don't know about the tranny problem but the bus made it from its depot to Floyd Bennet Field on 6/1/02. Based on where it was parked it was not the last bus to arrive.
Would the mechanics at the Yukon Bus Depot be able to fix the transmission problem on the 1962 GMC 5301 model Transit Museum bus #2151 by the time this years Bus Fest arrives?
Back in 1995, NYCT was considering adding a new Midtown bus route along the X15 line on Staten Island.
Has anyone heard if there are plans for a Midtown bus route along the X15 line on Staten Island.
I've mentioned this a while ago - to be called the X35 (similar to the X27/28/37/38). Doubt every will see this servie in near future.
I never saw this post about the X35 running along the X15 route on Staten Island to Midtown.
Since I never saw this post on bustalk, can you please tell me about this X35 route because I never saw the post.
It was my speculation about the midtown SUGGESTED service on the X15 route.
Nothing more. It WILL NOT HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON.
FYI
My Planning called for the same route to be duplicated on SI and when in Manhattan, via FDR to 23rd Street crosstown to either 6th or Madison, terminating at 57th Street.
Has anyone heard of any plans to extend any Staten Island local buses to connect with NJ Transit's HBLR in Bayonne, prehaps to 22nd St when the HBLR is extended there in 2003.
HBLR is thinking of coming to you.
S.I. elected officials have proposed extending the s57 and s59 across the Bayonne Bridge to the HBLR. MTA/NYCT claims that they are legally prevented from doing so. Our congressman claims that the NYCT can run buses to Bayonne. There's been no action on this issue for about a year. Once the HBLR is extended through Bayonne I'm sure it will be proposed once again.
There is a similar dispute regarding running NYCT express buses to Jersey City. Especially since 9/11/01, more and more Staten Islander's jobs have permanently moved to Jersey City. Currently Coach USA/Red and Tan runs two routes, the 122-Hylan Blvd & 144-Richmond Avenue.
Coach USA/Red and Tan - http://www.redandtan.com/index.htm
(The 122 has been running for months but is still not listed on their website.)
New York City Transit does not have authority to run an inter state bus service. It can operate through New Jersey as long as the buses do not stop.
However NJ Tranist has the authority and they can start a bus route from New Jersey which can terminate in Staten Island and transfer arrangements can be worked out similar to MTA and DOT buses
Thank You
When riding the S 53 bus route yesterday, I saw a new New York City Transit Bus Service Notice which says that starting Sunday June 30th the S 51 will operate alternate trips through Fort Wadsworth 7 days
a week from 6:00AM till 7:00PM. In the notice, it says that every other S51 will travel through Ft. Wadsworth in both directions between St. George and Midland Beach/ Grant City. Could it actually be true that NYC Transit would start operating all S51 buses through the base on its weekday schedule and eliminate stops all together at School Road and Lily Pond Ave?
When visiting the updated Transit Talk website recently, I noticed there was a new photo of the now Vintage 1963 General Motors
TDH-5303 model former New York City Transit Authority bus #3758 outside the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot showing the B74 bus route. Also, in the description it says that this particular bus picture was contributed by Andrew Grahl. In addition when attending the 2000 NYC Transit Bus Fest, I managed to purchase a 1997 NY Metro Bus Calendar which featured a picture of a 1965 GMC 5303 model MABSTOA bus #6534 on the BX28 bus route. And at the bottom it says that the picture of this 1965 GM Fishbowl Transit Bus is from the Andrew Grahl Collection. Now my question is, how can I obtain an actual 8X10 or
11X14 photo reprint of one of these GMC 5303 model (1963 or '65) buses
from Mr. Grahl? With that in mind, does anybody keep in contact with Andrew Grahl. I understand that his Father Gary Grahl runs the
NY Metropolitan Transit Club.
I will be happy to forward your e-mail addy to Mr. Grahl and have him get in contact with you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
My I suggest you attend this Friday's ERA meeting. Andy has been know to be there quite frequently. The only problem is that you'll have to have some interest in rapid transit vehicles that run on rails ;-)
What does ERA stand for? And where is the meeting at?
ERA = Electric Railroader's Assoc.
They meet near Ground Zero at College of Ins. 101 Murry Street, thats' between Greenwich & West streets. Take IND or IRT to Chambers.
This Friday doors open at 6:15 PM, slide show starts after 7.
BTW, there's another NYC organization, UTC, they tend to also embrace bus topics, but then I just work for a bus company ;-)
Well I haven't heard anything to the contrary, so I guess the strike will start by midnight.
Commuters going through and from Queens to Manhattan should expect major delays on NYCT buses, LIRR, and subways as 115,000 people look for alternate ways to Manhattan.
There is some indication in a NY1 article that the strike could continue for days. Usually the first day is the worst as far as confusion goes.
Good luck for those of you from Queens getting into Manhattan tomorrow! I'm glad I don't have to go in that direction!
Nice rubbing it in, QTrainDash. :( I can't believe I have to put up with this all over again!
Well thank the City, they should have given into the DOT drivers by now. Those DOT drivers have been very patient as it is, but City Hall still thinks they are inferior to MTA.
They do the same job for less pay than those in "MTA blue", it is about time they be heard.
So I do ask riders not to be mad at the drivers, but the City DOT, for constantly stalling on a new contract. And Bloomberg doesn't seem to give a damn about Queens DOT drivers and riders. Just my $0.02.
Well, if that's the case, then I guess Mayor Bloomberg's idea of city control of the transit system just flew the coup!
It Looks like we have a strike in progress...... my bus line is the Q 19 B. (Triboro) I dont use that bus line that much. It runs along my street. I havent heard a bus pass by in a little more then an hour. the last bus usually passes by my house is around 1:40 AM. Why dosent the MTA just take over these "privates" and get it over with already? Now these people who rely on the "privates" have to suffer. This really stinks. Just my opinion.
If the MTA takes over those "privates", there won't be anymore 1.00 off peak fares. That will really hurt those in Queens.
Remember, the MTA is a state agency, and the private franchises are under contract to the NYCDOT. To get control, the MTA not only has to go through the formality of hearings and approvals for the takeovers, but they also need the green light from Albany, who gives them their authority. That process could get derailed easily by a number of things, namely NYC vs. Albany competition, and whatever legislator who supports the franchises (or if there is a lobbyist in Albany with a direct line to some key legislators).
I'm glad I don't have to go in that direction!
Aren't you glad you don't have to go in any direction?
For those of you who have been displaced by downtown QM1 Wall Street area express bus service, there is an alternative:
If you can get yourself to Hillside Avenue, the X68 offers AM and PM peak service to the Grand Central Terminal Area. From Grand Central, use your handy transfer from your MetroCard and transfer for free to the X25 express bus, which will take you near the financial district with far less crowding.
Thanks,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Looks like Mr. T has got the day off from work (whether he wants it or not)....;-D
Just editing your title to reflect Jamaica Bus.
No took Friday off to go Ding Ding at the "Point".
Today I'm here on the otherside of the picket line.
BTW, Green may go out too. They are ATU vs. TWU but are otherwise in the same boat as their brothers (and sisters). Of the "seven" only Liberty has a new contract.
Green is in a sticky situation. They do have a contract, and they have a separate union. I don't think International President LaSala will sanction a strike on behalf of Green line operators.
If they go, it will be a wildcat sympathy/unity action, and it won't last more than a day or two.
Command is doing a work slow down I hear.
Slower than 'normal', I guess...
If the strike is a long one bet that the TA takes over all three bus companies
Thank You
According to a picture the Suffolk Edition of Today's Newsday a CUSA caught fire on I-84 in Chesire Ct, yesterday shutting down the road for several hours. The picture shows the bus in the background and the driver, John Dearstyne, standing about 20 yards in front of the bus talking on a cellular phone. Caption said he was able to get everyone off without any injury.
What kind of bus was it?
From the picture it appears to be a MCI 102 DL3. It is a Bonanza bus. The destination board cannot be made out. The number is also hard to make out but it appears to be 5 digits long possibly 38864
Geez...I know a driver Dave Dearstyne at Bonanza Bus Lines....
Steve I do too from the Yahoo Model Bus Club. Wonder if it is him or does he have a brother? Glad to see that he and all passengers were safely evacuated. Large plume of smoke eminating from the back of the bus. Engine is probably fried.
Wonder what engine this was?
Yeah, I saw the same picture. Hope everyone made it out. Kinda sad to see a MCI of any model go up in flames.
I saw on the news that the Queens DOT strike has started. How are those DOT bus riders faring?
I imagine the NYCT bus routes (esp Q44) are much more crowded than usual.
Looks like the Bx12, 25,26,28,29 and 30 will be more crowded due to the QBx1 not running.
Shucks im gonna miss all the QBX1 drivers giving me the wave as they get stuck or pass me on the Bridge .
On Saturday night I saw Bus #722 with a NYCTA QC sticker on it. Why would TriBourgh have a TA sticker on it. It was on the driver side rear, right were it would be on at TA bus.
Robert
I know the Tribourough has one ex Nycta test bus i think #996 or #997.
740 and 762 have them also.
#740 Q18 (NOT TODAY!)
#762 Q33 (NOT TODAY!)
About 9 am I spotted Njt bus #8299 entering the PABT does anyone know what garage it assigned to because I couldn't see the destination sign. Thanks in advance .
T.Beverett
8299 is most likely assigned to Wayne also has several buses numbered in the high 8200s (8269-8284 and 8290 are confirmed per NJT Bus Ops fleet list dated 06.13.02).
As a side note, there are only 88 MC-9As on the active roster for NJT: 57 are at Howell 30 are at Oradell, and 1 (6471) is at Washington Twp, plus 75 MC-9As at Caven Point either waiting reassignment or retirement.
There are only 68 active MC-9Bs on the road for NJT: 24 are assigned to Howell (most of them are ex-Washington Twp units), 27 are at Wayne, and 17 are at Egg Harbor (mainly being used on the 559 line along the US 9 corridor between Lakewood and Atlantic City - I believe there are still weight restrictions in the Little Egg Harbor Twp area of Burlington County which preclude the D4000s from being used on the 559). 29 MC-9Bs are awaiting their fate at Caven Point.
Note that the above MC-9A/B numbers do not include Private Carriers.
Hey "ctrabs74", can you give us a mock or "guesstimate" roster of NJT? If it's too much, I understand. I was only interested as to what buses are in and what buses have been scrapped.
I will have a full NJT bus assignment list posted within the next couple of days. Note that this listing does not have any new updates from the private carriers (IBOAs, Coach USA, Academy, et al), but only buses assigned to NJT Bus Ops. I can give a general idea of what changes have occured within the past year or so:
* All Flxibles at Oradell have been transferred to other depots, probably Market St or Hilton; there are less than 30 MC-9As remaining there, as the bulk of buses at that depot are new D4000 cruisers.
* All Flxible Metro B Suburbans at Ironbound have been moved, replaced by D4000s; all MC-9As at Ironbound are now off the roster, but the Flxible Ds - Suburban and Transit - are still at Ironbound
* A lot of 3500s have been either moved from Wayne and Meadowlands to Caven Point (as noted in an earlier post)
* Very few moves have taken place in South Jersey; a couple of Metro D Suburbans were moved from Egg Harbor to Market St, and a couple of 30-ft Novas were moved from Washington Twp to Hamilton/Mercer
* As noted earlier, most of the Flxibles at Wayne are either at other garages or Caven Point, and only a handful of MC-9Bs remain (T.Lo has noted that the D4500s are starting to arrive at Wayne)
All of the Flxibles that were at Oradell are now at Market Street, along with 3701-3703.
You can expect that the remaining MC9As at Oradell are gonna be replaced with D4501 Cruisers IIs. Same for Wayne with thier 9Bs. Howell is still in for some D4000s with thier D4501s.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks for clarifying. BTW, 3701-3703 were the former Egg Harbor units that were sent north.
8299-8320 (Delivered so far) is the beginning of Wayne's MCI D4501 allotment.
I've seen 8299 and passed 8304 on the turnpike this morning!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Wow, those are 45-footers?!?!? You've got to love the logic of the NJ Transit numbering system!!!
Thanks to the info provided by "Q5Merrick" and also "BIG AL", we all know that the Orions will be converted to local buses. My question is this....have the MTA-NYCT started converting the Orions yet? I know that the Nova have not started. Thanks in advance!
The word "converted" should probably be "reassigned." There was talk of actually converting some of the express buses, which would involve replacing the soft seats with hard seats. However, the seats are on a platform, which would have to be removed. The estimated cost is $15,000 per bus all-in, which probably comes under the heading of "not worth it."
David
Thanks for you answer!
I haven't heard any news whatsoever about the conversions. I suspect the plans have been scrapped, or shelved at the very least. Since 9/11
Transit has lost megabucks due to decreased ridership and the trainstations at the WTC being demolished, causing transit to have to invest money to rebuild them. Because of that, many plans have been put on hold or suspended, such as my overtime and probably those seat conversions.
BIG AL
Well, I guess the soft seat will stay....but when my father was in school, he was riding the buses and he said the TA changed the seats on the GMC New Looks because kids ripped up the seats with pocket knives. So, I would assume the MTA would change the seats if the seats are ripped up? I forgot to ask David that question too since he answered mine as well. However, thanks for your answer! I understand now.
I would imagine that sometime down the road, 3, 4 or 5 years from now, when these soft seaters are either all vandalized or otherwise just worn out, the TA will do something. Right now, 6/18/02 @ 3:40 PM it is not an issue. The TA goes from one "crisis" to another. When the time comes, they will address the problem, but as of today, there is no problem with the seats.
In these cost-saving and penny-pinching times that the TA is in, spending thousands of dollars EACH to re-seat the Nova and Orion suburbans, look forward to the soft-seaters sticking around for some time to come.
Maybe, just maybe, a couple (and I do mean a couple, as in two, and NO I don't know which two specific buses so don't even play yourselves and ask me) will receive hard seats, but for now that plan has been scrapped.
Mark
I appreciate if anyone has any information on this topic I posted on Sunday.
Has anyone heard from NYCT if there going to add more service to the X93 route on 9/8/02.
That's right, the X22 will be extended along Hylan Blvd to Page Av startting 7/1/02 & will add four more trips to the service, in addition, the X21 will be NO MORE.
It already runs to Tottenville. It's being extended from its current terminal at Craig Ave and Hyland Blvd to Page Ave and Hylan Blvd. It will run south on Hylan to Craig, and then operate on the existing route. The x21 MAY return as a branch of the x22 that will serve lower Bloomingdale Rd.
-Hank
Does anyone know if a new Staten Island Bus Map has been published. The latest one I have is September 2001.
While i was doing Operation Planning on M31 run 24 from 126th Street Depot & this was i saw on the road today.
GMC #1852 on X92
TMC #8626 on X90 why this bus running on Express Bus?? Does MJQ ran out of Exprees Buses?
Orion #183 on M30 this bus came from MCH Depot but what the hell this bus doing on M30 from MJQ Depot?
New Flyer Viking Cruiser D45S #996 & #997 on X51.
New Flyer Artic #5509 on M86
also i saw GMC #3895 w/o farebox & number right outside near the Depot & i rode Nova #5053 while i was doing Operation Planning
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
I think someone posted here that MCH does one or two M30 runs.
All I see is old new bus strike, east new york depot and jackie gleason depot. Guy and girls lets talk about other bus issue too. Can I get a amen!
Amen, brother!! I'll start with this question if someone didn't ask it yet? Where did the single artic vanish to when it left Casey Stengel?
So why dont you contribute something worthwhile? Oops, I forgot, you and your buddy ask questions after someone gives an answer or make a statement to. What the hell is this? Jeopardy?
I want to see the buses pull in and out of the garage from there and take some pics there. I woundering how do I get to there? The adress to there is 59 Babcock Pl. The closest I could get to is Getty Square since I would be takeing the BxM3 to there. Anybody can help me out here?
And how good is the BxM3?
Ask the driver if he/she is going back to the garage, they might just give you a ride. Best bet is to take Metro North to Yonkers and walk to the garage from Yonkers station. You can also walk from Getty Square, it will take you about 10 minutes.
Peace,
Kevin
Is it true that the X21 might come back to serve lower Bloomingdale Rd, if that is true, will it travel along the same path as the X22 or will it go straight up Bloomingdale Rd to Arthur Kill Rd.
I thought my post was pretty clear. Do you have a comprehension problem? Can't you get your info from things already posted, instead of asking a question after you've read the answer?
-Hank
Now more often on the Q46 is the Nova RTS Suburbans. On Satuarday I saw #9261 on the Q46 and on Sunday I saw #9255 on Q46 and I luckly to rode #9250 on the Q46. So it looks like the Nova RTS Suburbans are here to stay on the Q46. Hopeing to see #9288 again since that was my 1st time on a Nova RTS Suburban.
Q46 Nova RTS #9250
PS. I rember seeing #9250 a few weeks ago on the X63 of the X64 before being sent to QV
I ment to say. Hopeing to see #9288 again since #9288 was my 1st time rideing a Nova RTS Suburban.
Last week I rode Nova Suburban #9251 and #9261.
-
Q46- RTS #9261
Q46- RTS #9251
Q43- RTS #9250
A few weeks ago, back when 9250(?)-92?? was at Jamaica, three of those surburban RTSs would pick up students as the Q17 at my school, and I rode on 9260 just about every day for about two weeks. I was very disappointed when I heard that they were being moved to QV.
Today, at about 8:00 A.M. in Flushing, I was standing on line to take the Q17 to school so I could take my English regent, and 9267 came! I had a nice comfortable ride to school. :-)
Was this at Ryan Junior High School or Francis Lewis High School? I went to Ryan Junior High School. I remember the buses on 174th St. Those were the good old days!
Get used to that picture my friend as the Orion and Nova Suburbans are going local to replace the older buses in which they're going either to KB or to scrap.
#9348 Q17
#9255 Q36
#9254 Q46
#119 Q32
When attending the 2000 New York Transit Museum Bus Fest, I purchased
a 1997 New York Metro Bus Calendar which featured old photos of many New York City Transit Authority buses when they were still in passenger service. For instance, the picture that I found very interesting in the 1997 Bus Calendar (by Traction Yearbook) was the image of the MABSTOA 1965 General Motors TDH-5303 model bus #6534 on the BX28 bus route. It says that the picture of this green body '65 GMC Fishbowl was originally photographed in 1971. At the bottom of the page, it said that this MABSTOA bus picture is part of the
Andrew Grahl Collection. Would anybody know if Mr. Grahl still has the slide of this 1965 GMC 5303 model MABSTOA bus? If Andrew does, is there anyway that he can send me a reprint of this '65 GM bus photo on 8X10 or 11X14 matted photo paper?
I have 2 questions:
1. Where exactly on the J-Line does this shuttle take place?
2. What are the dates for this shuttle, and when will it end?
You'll find the answer right here.
The other day, I noticed a new MCI running for Atlantic Express. This bus had an electronic destination sign like the MTA MCIs.
I couldn't see what it said, but the bus was in service, either as X23/24.
Does Atlantic Express have these sigsn programmed for their routes?
Does these signs have NYCT routes programmed as well?
That's bus #180 or #181, and both of them are NOT new, those were the 1996 ex-New Jersey Transit MCI 102-DWA3 Cruiser Demos #8011 and #8060. After thier stint at NJT, there were supposed to return to the fleet for permenant use but returned to MCI and ultimately for resale which Atlantic Express snatched them up, #180 was 8060 and #181 was 8011.
A little tidbit, now 8011 and 8060 are part of the new D4000 order number scheme!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Saw 616 and another Atlantic City Express forgot the number-think it was 803 on 5th Ave and 41 St around 830am this morning. 1 had X23 the other X24. What's this all about? Very strange to see.
#1979 X3
This afternoon my father saw Ex CS 108 on the Q 31 today with QV stickers on it. Sounds like the Express Orions are leaving CS to go to QV.
Suburbans are replacing the older buses at QV. QV's older buses headed to KB or to scrap.
#108 Q31
#3562 BX7
saw 108 on jamaica av today..........3914 on the hook westbound on jamaica
The (Albany-area) Business Review: "Bus manufacturer to close down Schenectady operation"
From the article (http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2002/06/17/daily5.html):
""The Schenectady operation's sole purpose was to be able to meet requirements of the Buy America Act in selling to federally-funded transit authorities," said George Bourelle, president and CEO of Nova Bus LFS. "The decision that we've made is to no longer compete in that market segment,"
That means Nova Bus will no longer supply customers such as the New York city Metropolitan Transit Authority or the Chicago Transit Authority which are federally-funded. "
We all knew the RTS was dead. I guess this means Nova is happy selling its LFS bus to Quebec transit operators and the occasional odd U.S. customer. I don't know of any large operators in this country who aren't taking advantage of federal funds to finance their fleet purchases. Probably the Schenectady plant was doomed once Nova failed to win any big contracts from New York City. Of course, it doesn't help that Nova offers only the 100% low-floor LFS, and doesn't have a partial low-floor bus to compete with New Flyer, NABI, Orion, etc.
Jim D.
[I don't know of any large operators in this country who aren't taking advantage of federal funds to finance their fleet purchases.]
New York City usually doesn't.
As to Nova, I believe they received yet another large contract from the Quebec provincial consortium that will keep the assembly line busy for several years, so from a business standpoint, they see little need to try to expand to service the U.S. market. Probably a good business decision for Nova Bus, although not great for U.S. bus fans who like variety.
When I was a little kid, I recall early versions of GMC RTS (pre-NYCTA) had a rear end that sloped at about a 60 degree angle or so from the engine compartment to the roof. I think I recall seeing them on Green Bus Lines and the car rental shuttles at JFK.
Were the buses modified since then, bevcause they seem to have disappeared?
Perhaps they didn't have AC at the time?
These were AC-equipped; however, the units were very shoddy and barely worked, ergo the conversion of many to squareback. Also, the A/C unit was accessed via a small round door on the rear of the bus, making it a nightmare for technicians!
I used to think the slopeback version was the better-looking of the two, but after getting used to squarebacks, it looks funny to me now. In my model bus collection, I have two examples of the slopeback RTS; a Hot Wheels LA Metro version and a Micro Machines. Also, a friend here in town has a huge 1:25 scale promotional model of an RTS slopeback from 1977. Very neat and hard to find!
-Fred
Do you know if they were modified later on? Also, did Green Bus run them?
Green Bus did run them. If you looked carefully at the back, you could see where they modified them from slopebacks to squarebacks. A majority of the slopebacks were modified later on. The rest have been scrapped or sent to unknown places. I don't think Green Lines Bus has any more of those former slopebacks since I believe they were only built in 1979 & 1980 and those years have mostly been retired now from nearly every transit agency.
BIG AL
You can find some of those GMC RTS-03 buses from Green Bus Lines at the Command Storage yard...I believe there are one or two left. But you are right, they are retired and THANK GOD for that!
That bad, eh? What all was wrong with them?
Actually, slopebacks were made from 1977 to 1979. 1980-up were squarebacks; many TAs, including WMATA, converted theirs shortly after.
-Fred
Not exactly. Limited RTS-03 production continued into 1980. True that the squareback RTS-04 was unveiled for the 1980 model year, and that was the model offered to new customers, but several systems received slantback RTSs well into 1980. These were mainly systems which had received other slantbacks from 1977 to 1979.
Oh, neat! Good to know. Actually, slantback production was still prevalent in 1981; that is when Hot Wheels released their RTS casting....:)
This thing was about the length of a regular Hot Wheels car; I guess you could say it was a 30-footer or 35. I have a few of them lying around....you should have seen the one I made into a 40-footer with Alcoa wheels when I was little.
-Fred
My training bus from last year was a 1979 RTS slopeback that was modified sometime in her long career. I remember the days when I would see them working for Avis at JFK.
Oh cool! We have a Grumman 870 from the same vintage that we recently restored; she reminds me of my childhood every time I ride her around.
-Fred
Is the RTS slope model in a lucite case in demonstrator colors. I bought one at the Kendall Park train show two years ago. According to Steve Hoskins, mine was made by Air-Jet Industries (from Fla?) and seems to be 1/43 or the size of the Corgi MCI 102 DL-3.
I belive that they were given to exectives of transit agencies by GMC if a certain number of buses were ordered.
Also saw one on E-bay many months ago in a green and brown type striping.
This one did not have a lucite case; it was definitely 1/25 scale. It is about 17 to 19 inches long and is in perfect scale with a model car kit. I have a 1:25 scale Gillig that I built from Lego bricks, and they are the same width and all. It's white with black window areas and an orange stripe...possibly a demo. A really neat RTS model!
-Fred
I would love to see it. It is definitely bigger than the model I was referring to. Never have seen one like that on E-bay.
It is a beautiful thing. I'll try to get a photo of it; maybe if I beg the guy REEEEEEEEEEEEEAL hard he'll let me get it on a trade. I do know he likes Cadillac models....
-Fred
I have a neat 1:43 scale bus model; it is a resin model of a Grumman Flxible 870. Originally it was a 40-foot Flx Metro "D"; unfortunately, it met fate with a concrete floor shortly after I built it.
However, I made lemons into lemonade; I shortened it to a 35-footer, sloped the rear slightly, filled the front grille, added smooth side windows and Grumman emblems, and painted it in 1979 Valley Metro livery to match our buses from here in Roanoke. It also features Alcoa wheels that came with the kit and was done to match the restored example at our local transit museum. It came out good!
-Fred
You must be new to this board. There have been quite a few posts about the slopeback RTS in the past. There is one we know of that is still in existance. It is owned by a company called Jetaway Transportation. The bus is used to shuttle customers from their cars to the horse racetracks such as Belmont Park in Nassau County New York. I sent Trevor Logan, the webmaster of Transitalk.org a picture of it 2 years ago. If you would like to see it, check his website, however you may need him to help you locate it as the website is very large and the last time I checked I did not know where to find it.
BIG AL
Big AL,
About two or three years ago, Jetaway Transit still had a few '71 Flxibles from Jamaica Bus. They had cushioned seats and were the 200 series buses. The last one I saw was bus #216 in Canarsie. Do you know if there are any left? Thanks.
I have never seen any Newlook buses with Jetaway. That's not to say they don't have them since I've never been to their garage. The only thing I've seen them running are ex-New Jersey Grumman Flxibles, ex-NYCTA RTS's and the one slopeback which used to belong to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
BIG AL
Wow....Port Authority had a slopeback? Neat! I sure would like to know what became of those 1971 Flxibles.
-Fred
Fred, you misread Big Al's post. Jetaway has/had several Gruman Flx's and one Slopeback at Belmont Racetrack, two years ago. The slopeback in question ran originally for the Port Authority of NY/NJ shuttling passengers from the plane terminals to the parking lots at La Guardia.
This bus was fleet # 52. If you check the production lists at www.omot.org for RTS-03's you will see that the PA had several in service at both La Guuardia as well as JFK>
Sorry about that. So whatever happened to the 71 New Looks?
Unless I hear otherwise, my guess is they're all gone by now (sadly). From what I understand, Jetaway takes horrible care of their equipment. I remember bus #208 was involved in an accident and right away taken out of service and scrapped. When a bus ends up at Jetaway, it is one step away from the junkyard. They do what they absolutely have to do to keep it running, nothing else.
True. However, the did seem to take some care of the slopeback. They gave it a paintjob. Even though they made it look ugly with that brown color, verus the original yellow it was in, that shows they are trying to keep the bus in some type of decent condition. They painted one or two of their other buses also but I forgot which one's. But for the most part, their other buses did look like they were ready for the junk yard. As I said, I haven't seen the slopeback last year or this year so far. But it may be working Acquduct racetrack instead. I never go over by the "Big A". Yesterday I drove by Belmont and saw a Grumman Flxible making the rounds but I wasn't close enough to see the number. Jetaway knows their slopeback is possibly the last one alive in the area (maybe the whole country) and they probably want to hold onto it, but I did tell the operators to tell the owner if he ever wants to part with it, put some ads on the internet so you guys will know. If you guys who are new to this board want to see a picture of it, check the bustalk achives.
BIG AL
P.S. I'll try to get to Belmont my next week and ask a Jetaway operator the whereabouts of "slopey".
Port Authority had a whole fleet of slopeback RTS's.
Yellow ones at LaGuardia and JFK. Brown ones at JFK and Newark.
Ooh! Got pics?
Used to. I sold off my entire transit bus 35mm slide collection. It was just sitting in file boxes in a closet for years plus Ineeded some $$, so killed two birds with one stone.
I can understand that; I'm short on both cash and space. In fact, just yesterday I traded off an entire box of Hot Wheels cars and a Chrysler dealer promo for a Road Champs Flxible Metro and a friction Trailways Silver Eagle plus some cash. I feel I came out well on the deal.
-Fred
The 'slopeback' RTS buses were built only from 1977 through 1980. The original RTS buses were model '01' - these were very rare. BAT in Brockton, MA was the only East Coast operator I know of who had the RTS 01's, along with a few California and Texas transit authorities. The more common slopeback RTS's were the '03' series, built from 1978 through 1980. Numerous cities had these buses, and Hertz had a fleet of these for airport shuttle services. As posted elsewhere, many of the slopeback RTS buses were retrofitted with the 'squareback' air conditioning configuration.
Since these buses would be 22 to 25 years old, few remain in service. I did see at least one '03' RTS bus (with modified squareback AC) operating in shuttle service at the Foxwoods casino complex in Connecticut last December.
Jim D.
So 1980 was the last year for slopebacks? I knew it was sometime after 79. Can anyone confirm this?
According to the RTS delivery lists at The Ohio Museum of Transportation's website (www.omot.org), the last '03' model RTS buses were delivered in September 1980 to SEPTA in Philadelphia and NFTA in Buffalo.
Jim D.
I see; were they slopebacks?
They were....all the 01 and 03 series of the RTS-II's were slopebacks. The 04 and higher are squarebacks.
Theones I drive now and then to this day out here in southern California were originalyl slopebacks...built in May, 1980.
I did work for another property in September, 1980 when they got brans new square-backs.
So it was definitely over the summer of 1980 that the changeover from the "03" series to "04" series happened.
Gotcha. I wouldn't know; I was three years old at the time. :)
-Fred
Oh well, if you were born in 1977 you missed all the good stuff. They haven't made any REAL buses since then! :-)
>>> Oh well, if you were born in 1977 you missed all the good stuff. They haven't made any REAL buses since then! <<<
Steve;
You probably wouldn't call them "the good stuff" if you had to push that old iron around all day. Those were the days when the manufacturers thought the B/Os should be happy to have anything to sit on while driving.
Tom
Funny you should bring that up....I most certainly DID drive GM Old Looks, GM New Looks, older Flxible highway buses, GM parlors of many varieties as old as PD4104's. (Learned the standard transmission on a PD4104). And while others think those old buses with those particular driver seats (they all seemed to have the very same type seat made by American Seating) -- I never minded them at all. Those seats went up or down three small notches. They went front and back three small notches. The back tilted three small notches. None of the lumbar support, air ride, vibrate your butt sort of thing. And for some strange reason, you didn't hear of the back injuries that you hear of nowadays. I think what it is, is that these newer seats have too many comforts and adjustments, and if you don't set them properly (and we ARE instructed how to do so where I drive), you become more susceptible to injuries.
Oh, forgot to mention....I didn't mind buses with STICK SHIFT transmissions either. Loved 'em -- and I also didn't mind buses that did NOT have power steering. In fact, the New Flyer D40LF's that I drive, the steering is so stiff on them (even when they were brand, spanking new) that they feel like they don't have power steering.
A good friend of mine owns a T6H5307N...with NO power steering, and he's let me drive it a few times. He says he's amazed I don't complain about the lack of power steering...but it DOES steer a tad harder than it should. Most bus operations never figured out the right way to lubricate the steering boxes on the non-power steering fishbowls; a friend who owns quite a fleet of them told me what should really be done to make them steer easily but nobody seems to take the time to do it.
Sure they have. The GM and Flx New Looks were still being made, and the Grumman 870 and RTS followed soon after. I grew up riding all of the above; as far as I see, I haven't missed anything!
-F.
Bah!! Plastic buses!!!! Held together with glue, no less!!! :-)
Oh come on, the ADBs weren't that bad. And the Flxible and GM New Looks of that certainly were not held together with glue! Sure, they had fiberglass in later years, but they were NOT made of plastic.
Now the buses of today....that's a different story. Gillig, anyone?
Now the buses of today....that's a different story. Gillig, anyone?
Gillig buses are what they are ... an inexpensive vehicle for light and medium-duty applications. And they are a 100% U.S.-owned company, unlike all of their major competitors.
Jim D.
This is true. Our Gilligs here seem to do okay, despite creaks and groans after a few years. However, I have been informed by others here that they do not do well in big cities.
It's no secret that these are low-bid buses. We were to get more Flxibles here, but when the next wave of replacements were sought in 1988, the Flxes came up high. Therefore, virtually all the new buses we have received here since then have been Gillig Phantoms.
And yes, they certainly are all-American; Gillig makes well note of it with American flag motifs on their ads, promotional materials, and demo coaches. Overall, not a bad bus for smaller cities.
Then how come KC Metro,Indy Go,and Metro Transit got Gilligs and those TA's run in Big City's?
Kansas City and Indianapolis might be larger cities, but they are nowhere near the size of NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia; more importantly, these are cities with minor transit operations. For instance, the Indianapolis area has about 1.5 million people, but their transit system is a very underdeveloped operation with only 150 buses. Same goes for KC, although they have about 280 buses. The operating conditions in these cities are worlds different from what a true "big city bus" must face.
As for Seattle and Minneapolis-St Paul (both could be refered to as "Metro Transit," in your words) they have had success with Gillig Phantoms, but bear in mind that Gillig made major modifications to the Phantom before bidding on these orders. A 1996 3200-series 40x102 Gillig Phantom at King County Metro is practically a different bus from a 1988 40x96 900-series Phantom in Harrisburg, PA.
That being said, Gillig buses still lack what it takes to operate in the biggest of cities. In fact, Gillig itself is fully aware of this. They don't even bid on orders from the largest systems. For example, the suburban bus system in Detroit is purchasing close to 300 Gillig low floors. There was talk of joint procurements between the suburban system and the city system, but Gillig said that it would not supply buses to Detroit for city use. They simply can't take it.
I think Gilligs can handle fine in Big Citys. They should give DDOT a bunch of them(About25) and if they like it they just ask Gillig for more. It would have been nice to see a Gillig Low Floor in DDOT Colors.
What are you even talking about? Do you even know anything about DDOT? Detroit is not an easy place for a city bus. Maintenance is fair-at-best, passenger loads can get extremely heavy, and the roads are in deplorable condition. Any Gillig would fall apart after a month under those circumstances.
And Gillig Low Floors do not look good in anyone's colors, let alone the 28 year old, outdated DDOT scheme.
Ah yes....wasn't it DDOT that let their RTSes go all to hell and supposedly had to retire them after only 5 or 6 years? I have only been to Detroit a couple of times when I visited my family, but from what I heard, their maintenance is the pits.
They are known as SMART, but it's more like DUMB...Detroit Undermines Most Buses!
DDOT may have shoddy maintenance, but at least they can get 15 to 18 years out of a bus. SMART is the system which is currently retiring 1993, 1994, and 1995 RTS T80 206s.
To clarify, SMART and DDOT are two totally seperate systems serving the same metropolitan region. SMART is the suburban system which is presently converting its entire fleet to Gillig Advantage low floors, and DDOT is the city system which has a respectable fleet of Classics, New Flyers, and RTSs. DDOT's newly delivered 3800-series RTSs are among the last RTSs ever (yet a handful of 1986 GM Canada Classics are still hanging in there).
Because it's a city-run department, DDOT takes a lot of undue heat. Sure, it's far from perfect, but on the whole, their maintenance is leaps and bounds better than SMART's. That's not saying much, but many of SMART's 2002 Gilfs are already missing panels, losing gaskets, etc.
On the DDOT side of things, it will be interesting to see what they order next. They can't get any more RTSs, and Gilligs would never survive DDOT maintenance/service. I'm beginning to get a feeling that Neoplans are headed DDOT's way...
Oh, I see; gotcha. I had no idea, but you learn something new every day. So DDOT has some of the last RTSes...are these 2002 models or is there such a thing? That's neat to know they still have some GM Classics...are they still in good shape?
Also, I need to clarify...which buses are white with green stripes, the DDOTs or the SMARTs? That's a shame the SMART RTSes are being retired so early. I wonder how much they would go for on bid. On that note, I wonder how long the Gillig LFs will last there?
From what I have seen in most places, I would say that DDOT would replace the RTSes with New Flyer LFs....
-F.
Also, I need to clarify...which buses are white with green stripes, the DDOTs or the SMARTs?
DDOT.
That's a shame the SMART RTSes are being retired so early. I wonder how much they would go for on bid.
Just my guess, but I would imagine no more than $30-40K. SMART would have to recover part of the original value of the buses to reimburse FTA (or something along those lines), since they were retired prior to the 12-year life span. I'm sure there are some mid-size systems that might be willing to take a chance, rehab these buses, and have them road worthy in a matter of months - not a bad option considering how long it takes these days to get an order of brand new buses (SEPTA's current New Flyer order was placed in 1998, delivery of the first 100 buses began last fall).
On that note, I wonder how long the Gillig LFs will last there?
6-7 years max, given SMART's history... =)
From what I have seen in most places, I would say that DDOT would replace the RTSes with New Flyer LFs....
Just my opinion, but if the roads are as bad in Detroit as Neil says that they are, I doubt low floors - even New Flyers - would survive that long out there. If they plan to replace the rest of the MCI Classics and New Flyer D40HF buses in the near future with high floors, the only options available to D-DOT would be Neoplan, NABI, and Orion (assuming Orion still makes the Orion V bus by then).
...since they were retired prior to the 12-year life span.
The 12-year mininum is what most TAs go by, but technically, the minumum requirement to retire a bus with federal money is 12 years or 500,000 miles. SMART claims that it puts proportionately more miles on its buses than any system in the country; this will effectively make them the lone property that retires on grounds of mileage rather than age. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. Any decent bus can last 800,000 miles plus. Then again, I also think 12 years is way too young to retire a bus; I think a good bus should last at least 15 years.
Considering four-month-old Gillig Advantages are already falling apart, I wouldn't give them much more than 5 to 7 years. With the RTSs, at least they stayed in good condition until about 1998-99.
At DDOT, the 2000-series 1989 MCI Classics are eligible for retirement, but they are in pretty good shape, and most have been relegated to peak-only service, so DDOT can probably squeeze another couple years out of them. The 3000-series 1993 New Flyer D40s are not going anywhere for a good long while. When it comes time to replace the Classics, I have a feeling that Neoplan is going to get it. NABI is not interested in selling buses in Michigan and the future of the Orion V is shaky. DDOT had a not-so-good experience with their 1989 Neoplan artics, but I think they're ready to give them another shot (seems to be the trend lately regarding systems which purchased Neos in the 80s and are finally returning for more.)
Flxible, what suggests to you that DDOT is lined up for New Flyer D40LFs? I'm curious to know why you think that...
Because a lot of cities here that have run RTS fleets (i.e. Blacksburg, Charlottesville) have gone to New Flyer LFs for replacements. I'm not sure if that is the case in larger cities, but I do know that NYCTA, for example, has a mostly-RTS fleet and has purchased New Flyers in recent years.
Another trend is that TAs here who have had Flxible fleets (i.e. Roanoke, Lynchburg, Richmond) have gone on to Gilligs. I have also seen this happen in Grand Rapids, MI and Akron, Toledo, and other cities in Ohio.
Who knows what will hit Motown next? I am merely speculating by what I have seen here in Virginia and in other cities across the US.
And yes, I agree...a bus should last at least 15 years. Blacksburg's Flx Metros are 15-16 years old and still going strong, and the last of our Flxible New Looks here in Roanoke were retired at 18, with many more miles of service left on them when they were transferred to UVa in Charlottesville. Also, PenTran (nee HRT) in Hampton Roads kept their strong-running 77 Flxes in service through 2001.
-F.
Sounds like a high price for an auction bus, but understandable given its young age and the recuperation of monetary loss to the TA.
Almost four years to fill an order? YOW! I thought Blacksburg really had a wait when their 1998 order was placed in 96. This was a last-minute affair as they were supposed to get a fleet of new Flxibles that August, but unfortunately we all know what happened to them earlier that year...:(
If the roads are bad, I'd say Orion Vs are the best bet, God willing they are still made. But why would OBI discontinue such a venerable model?
Gillig buses are also the most uncomfortable piece of crap to drive. You sit almost on the floor, so when passengers come in and are at the farebox, you're staring at their crotch. Visibility out of a Gillig is awful too, especially to the right side. The left windshield corner also causes a major blind spot.
And they ride like crap. Out here in California, we have "dips" int he road means to channel storm water to drains. In a Gillig, you just about have to come to a stop before running through one or you'll be airborne. Hit that same dip with an RTS at full speed and all you get is a quick, hardly felt "kathump".
Drove Gillig's crap all too many years, they can NEVER convince me they make a good bus ever again. In fact, I bid to work at the garage I do just because it has NO Gilligs!!
Hey Steve-driving a Gillig and staring at crotches might not be bad if we could get Loni Anderson, Sophia Loren, Jacqueline Smith and a few others to take public transportation. LOL !!!!
Don't forget Tiffiany Amber-Theissen, Heather Graham, Uma Thurman, Angelina Jolie, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Sandra Bullock....the list goes on and on. Maybe we should do a fleet roster of them...LOL.
VERY wishful thinking. All we get is 400 pound mama's on their way to the welfare office, or illegal aliens in clothing that has never seen the inside of a washing machine.....
Mmm...lovely thought, I'm sure. Sounds like most of our routes here!
Gillig Phantom is a good bus.
If Gillig Phantom can do the job in small to mid-sized systems, why not the big ones? Small systems also have busy and crowded routes while big systems have quiet and less crowded routes. The same bus can be used on the same route every day for at least 8 hours Yes, they have not been tested in big cities like New York and LA or at least proved themselves that they could handle the jobs in these cities. But that does not mean they are not suitable for big cities.
Let¡¦s take the Bay Area as an example.
If the Gillig Phantoms in AC Transit (81+50+52+61+60), County Connection (92), Samtrans (37+73+63+73), and VTA (86+48+12) add up together plus smaller Transits including Tri Delta Transit, Vallejo Transit, Wheels, and WestCAT, there will be around 850+ Gillig Phantoms serving the residents in the area. Also, Oakland Airport, San Jose Airport and VTA would have 200 Gillig Low Floors. That is if there is only MTA in the Bay Area, Gillig's Bus will consitute more than 1000 buses.
AC Transit has about 100+ GPs that were built in 1984 or so and they put them on the express routes from San Francisco to local communities at the other side of the Bay during commute hours. The 1990, 1992, and 1993 models are even being put on the busies routes such as 40L, 43, 50, 51, 57, 58, 62, and 82/82L in Berkeley, Oakland, and San Leandro. The passengers they serve in this area literally abuse the bus they took. Yet, they still hold up to now. On the other hand, AC Transit has been with NABI in the recent years. But so far, no new NABIs arrived recently. The last batch of NABIs was delivered in 2000. A little note to this is that AC Transit has turned Gillig away in the late 80s and went to New Flyer for new D40HFs and D35HFs, but soon after they went back Gillig for 40 and 30 footers. I don't know if this will happen or not, but I think NABI also builds good buses too.
County Connection is not a big transit agency. They only have around 110 or so Gillig buses and at least 90% are Phantoms from different years. When the Gillig Low Floors arrived in 1998 and 2001, they retired their old D901 buses but not the Gilligs that were built around that time. In addition, they have a good relationship with Gillig and that they had the 1st Gillig Low Floors in the Bay Area.
Samtrans is a TA that owns around 350+ buses including 40 D60HFs, 15 Volvo B10M, and 15 Neoplan AN460. While the artics are assigned to routes such as 390/391, 292, and KX, which are at least 2 hours per trip, they also send their 1998, repowered 1993, 1990 and even those 1984 Gillig Phantoms to these routes and serve passengers. Although most of the 1984 and 1990 Gillig Phantoms are operated by MV Transportation, who is a contractor responsible for most Samtrans express routes, they are mostly found on the express routes linking the City, SFO, and the Peninsula and yet, they still can do 60+mph when loaded with passengers and luggage while the a/c is on.
VTA has the youngest Gillig Phantom fleet in the Bay Area. The oldest 86 Phantoms were built in 1997. Gillig then provided another 48 and 12 buses in the following two years plus another 3 Gillig Low Floors. At first, VTA did have problems with their Low Floors mostly related to malfunctioning of headlights, wheelchair lift, rear door and engine. However, Gillig corrected most of the problems and VTA went for another 52 Low Floor 40footers last year and this year, they will have another 84 with all sizes. Now, the Gilligs are just working hard on the streets in Santa Clara County.
Wheels, a transit that is serving Eastern Alameda County, is getting new Gillig Low Floors next year, despite the fact that they are the first transit in the Bay Area to get D40LFs in 1996. WestCAT is also enjoying their 1998-2000 Gillig Phantoms on express routes along the I-80 Corridor.
There are also some systems that bought used GPs from other transits. For example, Santa Cruz Metro has already their 30 D40LF buses delivered in 1998. But now, they are getting old GPs from Foothill Transit last year despite the fact that they have some used 1983 RTS from Golden Gate Transit operating on the only express route linking San Jose and Santa Cruz. On the other hand,
Monterey Salinas Transit is also getting ex Foothill Transit and Pierce Transit Gillig Phantoms. MST has 9 Orion V CNGs from 1996 but they went back to Gillig in 2000 for another 21 35ft Phantoms.
Accoding to Complete Coach.com, Fairfield Susion Transit is rebuilding their 4 1982 and 4 1985 Gillig Phantoms with Detroit Diesel Series 40 and Allison B400 along with state-of-art multiplex electronic control that operates every bus system such as a/c, doors, lights, solenoids, motors, and displays.
In other words, Gillig Phantoms are built for the future. Make a note that Gillig offers a variety of engine and transmission combination from Detroit Diesel Series 40, Series 50 to Cummins ISM, ISL, and ISC, and from Allison, Voith to ZF transmission. Base on the statistics from APTA, Gillig has the largest order in 2001, with 1609 buses. As some of you might say Gillig doesn't bid on orders from large cities, but the fact is that although they don't make any artics or CNGs, they still survive without those orders and being one of the oldest manufacturer in North America for 110 years.
Perhaps, Bay Area has a mild climate that the GPs do not need to ¡§suffer¡¨. However, Gillig Phantom is also designed to be able to handle all weather conditions. In Colorado, Denver RTD has mostly Gillig Phantoms 40ft from 1993-94 and Orion Vs 40ft from 2000. But RTD didn¡¦t go back to Orion for anther 73 30ft Gillig Phantoms at that time (3873 was the latest bus I saw when I went to Denver two months ago). Some smaller transits like Steamboat and ECO System in Colorado use Gillig Phantoms to shuttle their passengers to ski with the thick snow. In Minneapolis, more and more Metro Phantoms are going to there to proved themselves that they are corrosion resistant to the salt spread on the road. In Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver, WA, the Phantoms are operating under a climate that is always wet, cloudy, and rainy during the winter. In Honolulu, most of the Phantoms are doing so well under the high temperatures. In Florida, they even hold up in all weather conditions including hurricanes.
I agree that not every bus is made to last forever. This is because of the 12-year average age by the Federals. Most manufacturers have to ensure that 12 years from now, they will receive a new order from the same transit in order to survive in this competitive market. So, this issue leaves back to the transit itself and the passenger themselves. If a TA takes good care of their buses, check them regularly and have a big checkup and rebuilt after certain amount of time while the passengers are not scratching the walls, breaking the windows, and damaging the seats, any bus will stay longer than they were designed to.
Gillig Phantom. You are a good bus. You have 22 years of history. You have proven your value and performance. You are comfortable, accessible, and dependable. And perhaps, you are the only standard-floor bus still in production in North America. More and more of your brothers are coming out from Hayward. More and more of your sisters are willing to serve passengers, and more and more are going to wear a new LED destination sign¡K¡K¡K¡K
Quote from Gillig.com:
The Gillig Phantom... A dependable and cost-effective transit bus, delivering true Made-In-America value.
The Gillig Low Floor Bus represents significant advancements in nearly every aspect of design and engineering.
Along with these developments, Gillig continues to improve its products and services through its continuous improvement program and through the suggestions and feedback from its customers. Product improvements include more easily serviceable components with reduced maintenance requirements, lighter weight, more corrosion resistant and more easily recyclable materials, better creature comforts and increased use of intelligent vehicle systems such as AVL.
With guaranteed Federal funding, a good economy and increasing ridership, the future looks strong for public transit. And, with the right customer focus, the right products and the continued high level of performance from its experienced and dedicated employees, the future looks good for Gillig.
>>> Along with these developments, Gillig continues to improve its products and services through its continuous improvement program and through the suggestions and feedback from its customers. <<<
Wow! If you are not on Gillig's payroll, you should be. Unfortunately I seem to see a pattern in your post of use of Gilligs for commuter runs, which are a lot easier on a bus than inner city stop and go. I often ride the Foothill Transit Gilligs, both Phantoms and Advantages in Los Angeles County. They run into downtown Los Angeles, but most of their routes are in the suburban towns in the San Gabriel Valley. This means they often run a mile between stops (the stops are closer together, but often no one gets on or off for several stops), and passenger loads are rarely heavy enough to require anyone to stand. 100 miles of service here is nothing like 100 miles on the 42nd Street Crosstown bus in Manhattan. Although the Gilligs hold up well as they are used, they do not get the strenuous use that a big city with heavy ridership would force on them.
Tom
Sure those agencies all have large numbers of Gillig Phantoms.
But notice that AC Transit has NOT bought any for the past few years, and they are the "home" base for Gillig!!! Many other agencies have NOT bought Gilligs either.
It is NOT quality that got Gillig the orders. It was cheap price.
Having driven Gillig Phantoms for many years, I can attest to them being a genuine piece of crap. Bus fans can say all they want about how "great" they are -- try driving one for 8-10 hours a day five days a week. Your opinion will change.
I have an even lower opinion of the Orion V CNG!
[I think I recall seeing them on Green Bus Lines and the car rental shuttles at JFK.]
As others have already said, Green Bus Lines had 15 (#1001-1015), some of which were still running a year or two back. They may all be gone by now. If I remember correctly, Steinway and Queens Transit (predecessors to today's Queens Surface) each had one slope back RTS. Triboro Coach also had some early on. The largest slope back fleet in the area was in Westchester County, both 35 and 40 footers.
On August 23,2000 the following GBL RTS's were in the Varsity Transport Yard on Fountain Ave, near Command and the DOT Yards in Brooklyn.
#1003 -- #1005 -- 1013
Also on that date # 1007 and # 1009 were in the DOT yard. #1007 had no motor in it.
Haven't been back there since, can anyone update this info ?
Thanx
Haven't been back there since, can anyone update this info ?
It's not much of an "update," but as of June 2001, 1003, 1005, 1006, 1007 (no motor or doors), 1009, 1013, and 1015 were in the Command yard.
That bus survives today. It is still painted in the Green Bus scheme, logos and all, yet the route/destination sign roll has been taken out. I think it belongs to some driving training school. I saw it early last week parked in front of new P.S. 58, about a block away from the funeral home where John Gotti was laid out later in the week.
1012 is a training bus used at GBL. Bee-Line 136 still exists as a training bus in Queens as well. It is also an RTS-03 from 1979.
531, a 1980 RTS-03 is at Triboro for training. But of course, it is not being used due to the strike.
#1012 TRAINING
Just before the Orions arrived QSC borrowed 16 "03" slopebacks from Liberty Lines (177 thru 192). A few of them could be seen on the streets of Queens thru the end of 1998. I believe Liberty kept one when they were returned.
The Seashore bought 3 or 4 from a New England operator. They all were driven to ME and some are For Sale.
Thurston,
If i recall didn't Queens Transit had one (#1) and Steinway had one(#2)
Did they make it to Queens Surfice
Thank You
Whatever became of those slopebacks afterwards?
Most of those buses have been sitting in, of allplaces, Temecula, California for the past five years at a bus resale lot along with about 500-600 other buses from everywhere imaginable.
Any ex-NYCTA buses?
No. Only thing from back there are the Westchester units....about 20-25 of them. Most of the other stuff is from Minnesota, Louisiana, and west. Even Anchorage's old AM Generals.
Original the New Jersey Transit D Series Commuter "Jersey" Cruiser II was very simple:
7501-8115 NJT 40' D Series
8401-8915 Private 40' D Series
8116-8400 NJT/Private 45' D Series
8916-9013 NJT/Private 40' D Series Narrow
Since then many of things have change, option order and so forth has caused a serious change in the styling of the numbers. There is now a "logic" behind the new schemes. You now currently have this:
7401-7422 NJT D4000
7423-7465 (So Far) NJT D4501
7501-7503 NJT 102-DW3SS (Training Cruisers, was the Demos)
7504-8115 NJT D4000 (7531-7541 and 7783-7801 having lavatories)
8202-8204 NJT D4500
8276-8292 NJT D4000
8293-8320 (So Far) NJT D4501
8401-8435, 8451-8523, 8560-8627, 8701-8759 Private D4000 (8451-8453 has lavatories and TVs for Carefree)
Now, here's where the logic comes (However there is no logic for 8202 and 8204). Now if you look at it, Meadowlands operates 7401-7453 (being a mix of D4000 and D4501s) it would only make sense to keep a Series number consistant in a garage, so instated of having Meadowlands with
7401-7422, 7505-7542, 8023-8031 and then some wild cat numbers for the D4501s, NJT numbered Meadowlands' allotment of D4501s as 7423-7453, keeping the numbers in a somewhat consistant order, come to find out 8023-8031 was assigned to Meadowlands at a request so they could retire some Flxibles, originally 8023-8031 were slated for South Jersey use. D4501s 7454-7465 have landed themselves at Howell, Howell is set for 39 of these puppies so if they are consistant in the scheme Howell should have up to 7492, leaving 7493-7500 as the 8 numbers needed for Howell's D4000N "Narrow" allotment. Are you guys getting any of this?
Wayne has D4000s 8276-8292, and now they have D4501s 8293-8307 (so far), with 8308-8320 still at Caven Point. Are you noticing what I'm trying to say here?
Now there is gaps in the 8000 Private units, so you can only imagin what is going to happen:
Suburban needs D4000Ns, D4501s and more D4000s
Academy needs D4000Ns and D4501s
Decamp needs D4501s
Community needs D4501s
Rockland needs D4501s and more D4000s
Laklands needs just a couple of more D4000s
Short Line needs D4000s
Leisure Lines needs D4000s
Though it seems like there is numbers all over the place, there is a logic behind this and I finally figured it out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I got it now, Trevor! Thank you very much. I'm sure that we are ALL very pleased! Once again, you cracked the code!
If tradition holds, expect some of the MCIs to get reshuffled again once the delivery is completed. Back when the first MC-9s were delivered in late 1982, every garage got a supply of 6100s. As the delivery continued, the 6100s would go to US9 service and the garages would get their "real" allotment. Oradell originally received the 6170s, then as the 63xx's were delivered, the 6170s headed south.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Meadowlands 7400s head to Howell to keep all their numbers in a row, and the 7500s at Oradell come to Meadowlands as they get more fill from the 77s. The MC-9As were shuffled several times over their years of service, and like the current order of Ds, they were not delivered in numerical order (6102-6799).
Great Job Trevor,
But I gotta correct you on one thing. Meadowlands has never had 8023-8031. Those were originally Ironbound Buses. Those buses are now at the Wayne facility. Meadowlands has only had and still has 8032-8041. Also the D4501 series starts with 7420-7453 those are the buses in our possesion right now. However we do not have 7442 that bus is at Howell Garage. I started to see that wayne has gotten there D4501's I saw 8299 and 8301 yesterday. Man they are sure are appearing slowly. Almost all the 9's are gone. Our Flxibles were replaced with the current MCI D4000's 7401-7418. We still have seldom Flxibles left. Hey does anybody know where 7419 is, we do not have that bus? Is it a D4000 or a D4501?
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
Meadowlands Garage
Check this list that Trevor gave, Bus #7419 is D4000. On that list explains which buses are D4000s and which buses are D4501s. You have to contact Trevor or "Ctrabs74" for where the bus is.
Great explanation, Trevor, although I think you give NJ Transit more credit for logic than they deserve. There are still some bunches of buses out of sequence (i.e., at different garages than their numerical mates), so we'll have to see how it all pans out.
Perhaps you can explain something else. My recollection is that the new order was meant to replace all the MC9A/B and Eagle Cruisers. If that's the case, how come so many Flxible 3000's are being scrapped or disposed of? Is the total Cruiser order enough to replace all the old Cruisers and many of the Flexible suburbans? Or are some old Cruisers going to be retained because of the downsizing of the Flxible suburban fleet?
Two reasons, Sid:
1 - There were 1,234 older coaches (700 MC9As, 415 MC9Bs, and 119 Eagle 20s). The initial order was for 1,244 units which would have been a one-for-one unit replacement, but keep in mind, many companies that had the MC-9s had downsized or no longer existed, so NJT would have had extra coaches anyway. Exercising the option to 1,400 units allowed NJT to not only replace all the coaches, but 25 of the Volvo suburbans and at least 100 Flxible suburbans.
2 - The NJT Customer Survey from a few years ago stated that passengers wanted more comfortable buses. NJT leads the nation in its interiors as far as a large transit authority. (Compare the interior of an NJT Nova RTS to that of an NYCT RTS.) The 1994 Flxible Metro D suburbans were a result of these surveys - they replaced transit buses (the 1981 Flx 870), not suburbans. This allowed routes like the #76 to use suburbans again (back when it was still the 102, it always used 500-series GMC Fishbowls, which basically had the same interior as the Flx Metro suburbans) - the 102/76 had been running regular transit buses since the early 80s. Now, with more MCIs to work with, you see services like the 171 and 175 upgrading from Flxs to MCIs exclusively, giving those passengers a more comfortable ride.
It's sad that Fairview isn't getting any new MCI"S but a lot of the operators are to blame : They complained about using the MCI 9a series on bergenline ave sighting the blind spots and one door as a problem. I was one of the few who didn't mind using them on Bergenline ave but we were outnumbered and outcomplained. As a result we sent all of our 9a buses to Meadowlands for 3000 and 3100 series Flexibles.
Today I went to the Freehold Mall. While I was leaving the parking lot I saw this Assantant Living shuttle buses in one of the lot. I did not think about it becouse they rur 30ft RTS's with Slop backs or Singal door the strate backs. When I was driving by this one cought my action. It was a 40ft RTS with two set of sliding windows per side. I went into the lot and took a better look. Well it had the two yellow light over the destion sign and two tone blue solf seet inside. I am %95 shore that this was a MTA RTS's 1800 or a 3800 series bus, it was one of them that much I could tell. The bus had a total repainting done and I could not get inside becouse there was no one on the bus so I could not look to if there were any sticker marks left by the number. I wish I had a Carera with to get the bus.
Robert
It was probably bus #3874. I saw a pic of #3874 on Transitalk.org as the NJ88 but I could be wrong!
No this was a Shittle bus for one of the Assatent living places in the area. It is run the I think Ronnie bus compey.
Robert
LMAO it sure sounds like a Shittle all right! The 1800/3800 series are nothing but shittles now! ;) I know what you meant-just joking around!
#3818 Q17
I have a small Child, This is my defence!
Robert
How young is your small child? How adorable!!!
#1979 X84
2 years old.
Robert
Did it have a rear route display? Unless one was added or removed, that would distinguish an 1800 from a 3800 -- the feature was introduced in the 1983 model. (The other prominent new feature was the air assist door, with the yellow tapes on the back door, but that would have been harder to see from outside.)
Yes it did have a rear display, come to think of it. I also think it did have the rear door senser on the top half of the doors. So to must be at leadt a 3800 series RTS.
Robert
After the Bx34's last stop, there are some streets on the right side (going down Mclean/240 Street). I saw a 241 Street sign in Yonkers style printing and the maps seem to show this area a bit past the border (right by 242 Street/St Barnabas Place). Is this really a part of Yonkers, or just extended Bronx?
241st Street crosses a bridge before entering Yonkers, it becomes Wakefield Avenue. On the other side, it's not Yonkers but rather Mt. Vernon.
I meant on the Woodlawn side (by all the numbered streets near Van Cortlandt Park), there is a 241 Street that gets cut off right before Mclean. That Wakefield Ave is on the other side. That 241 Street seems to go past the border for a block or two.
That's my nickname for Mayor Bloomberg. He never seems to want to get involved in anything it seems, keeps an extremely low profile, and goes on frequent vacations.
This is Day 2 of the bus strike in Queens Surface, Triboro Coach, and Jamaica bus.
I did visit Queens and Manhattan today, fortunately there was not too much confusion on the subways, and announcements were being made about the strike in various stations.
In Flushing, Queens there was more action. Many workers out with bullhorns announcing no Queens Surface, as well as TWU out in force passing out pamphlets to people about what is REALLY going on.
The Q44/Q20 buses in both directions were packed, with lines over a block long this afternoon.
This morning I didn't know whether the strike was on or not, since there was no mention of it on the half hour I spent watching Good Day NY on 5 (traffic report said nothing). On 880 and WINS there was mention of a problem on the number 2,3 lines (they got that right!) but no mention of the bus strike. Considering over 100,000 people ride those buses, I think it's definately worth a mention in "Traffic and Weather on the 8s" or "Traffic and Transit on the 1s".
Anyway I was glad to see TWU rank and file out in Flushing letting people know that they are sick of the Wimpberg policy of "don't wanna get involved".
The way he's screwing Queens right now isn't gonna sit to well in the next election, which I'll be suprised if he wins.
They did say it on Fox 5 Good Day New York at 715 this morning because I watch that show on a daily basis. If you watch the show from 530am-9am, I do not think that you want to hear about the strike every 5 minutes. It bothers people enough that they have to find another way to get to work.
And this is not day 2 of the strike. This strike has happened 3 or 4 other days before within the past 6 months. I say this is day 5 or 6 of the strike. It's only the 2nd consecutive day of the strike.
Expect the strike to last a while. It'll be the only way for the companies to get their points across but yet lots of money is being lost.
#1979 X4
How is that money being lost (not a dumb question)?
In this case, there are only two losers-
The union workers are losing wages. The union also loses any sympathy for their plight from the public.
The public loses a necessary service.
-Hank
Since Monday afternoon, striking drivers have been standing at the subway exits in Flushing handing out leaflets to passersby explaining their position. Fine, but they can't realistically expect much sympathy from people who are being inconvenienced by this strike.
Just this morning, I witnessed a potentially nasty confrontation. A woman took the leaflet, crumpled it up and threw it at the striking driver who handed it to her. She yelled that a number of her co-workers were fired yesterday and Monday for being late due to the strike. Someone else joined in, declaring that while the drivers have a right to protest for what they believe in, innocent people are being docked pay, or as this other woman stated, losing their jobs.
An LI BUS driver who just took his bus out of service joined in the fray in defense of the strike. He and the picketer kept saying to complain to Bloomberg. The original woman stated that neither Bloomberg nor the bus companies' management could care less as they don't use the buses- the Queens riding public does. I could hear the argument continuing in louder tones as I went into the subway.
So it's hard to know who's right in a case like this. My place automatically docks you if you're late irregardless of the circumstances. Most employers don't come from Queens, so they're not likely to be aware of, or believe there's a strike if they see that subways, commuter railroads and city buses are running. Or they just plain don't care.
Either way, the strikers may only be hurting their own cause by appealing directly to the people most affected- the displaced riders.
"....a number of her co-workers were fired yesterday..." If these private companies lose their franchises, then the drivers and mechanics lose THEIR jobs too! This would have an adverse effect on the local economy since the vast majority of these workers reside in Queens. Maybe they would be rehired at non-union wages. What does the public care? They still get their buses without interruption. All of a sudden one day they have the current drivers & companies and the next day drivers from other companies. TWU will not allow this. By striking now, the city is unable to have a smooth transition from one company to another.
Jobs should not punish workers for being late due to something beyond their control. There should be recourse for workers fired because of the strike, but as well know workers' rights in this country are few and far between.
I'm glad the LI Bus driver joined in and supported the strikers. Queens DOT drivers have been very patient while the City drags it's feet in giving them a FAIR contract. And Wimpberg more or less tells Queens to drop dead.
The longer the strike goes on, the less of a chance Wimpberg is gonna be more than 1 term in office.
Bloomberg is taking a major risk in behaving like a typical corporate CEO in such a situation. Luckily for him this is just the franchised buses taking the hit here. But if its the TA itself (whose contract is up later this year), all h*** will break lose.
And yet-Bloomberg's main concern was to take over the city's schools?
What good is that?
Why can't he help out with transit?
What an a$$ hole!
He isn't getting my vote in 4 years!
#1979 X1
He got my vote last year, and if he runs, he'll get it again. He said something on MLK day that told me I voted for the right man. When asked about boosting PSAL participation in state-wide tournaments, and thus elevate their chances of earning scholarships to college by creating 'sports academy' type schools, the response was simple-
"No one cares how well a kid can play softball if he can't read."
Schools are the number two priority in this city, following the tax base that supports them.
The city is unfairly taking the blame in this strike. The city is not in a position to provide lifetime employment opportunities to the workers of a private corporation that has a time-limited contract with the city.
-Hank
(The city is unfairly taking the blame in this strike. The city is not in a position to provide lifetime employment opportunities to the
workers of a private corporation that has a time-limited contract with the city.)
I think Bloomberg would like to see the TA take over, and the state pay the subsidy instead of the city. The state has shafted the city so many ways fiscally, that turnabout is fair play.
Perhaps the TA will take over, with the added cost just rolled into the next fare increase, due the day after election day.
Fare increase, ok now will be a time to protest.
Assuming the private bus companies don't go out of business first. The strike is hurting them as well as the workers. Bloomburg is probably hoping tri-boro, Jamaica and Queens Surface all go out of business so that TA can take over. Or the Regional Bus whatever is formed.
Or a larger company like Academy or a Coach USA unit will get the contract, and use their profitable routes to cut costs on the Q-routes.
The strike isn't hurting the companies as much as you'd think. With metrocard, the subsidiaries are considered as a percentage of sales, not actual independent farebox readings.
In a nutshell, the private companies are receiving their share (or portions thereof) without the expense to fund payroll, fuel and parts and outside maintenance costs.
Who's hurting? The drivers and the public. And me... who is carrying the extra load.
Oh, and regional bus isn't going to happen. That's a dead issue, regardless of what the union filters to the media. It's just a carrot we can dangle in front of the TA to get other provisions. Unions agreed to "discussions" and nothing more.
It won't change.
Are the private bus companies still getting their subsidairies from NYC or the DOT?
The DOT.
Well, yes. The New York City Department of Transportation, as opposed to the New York City Transit Authority, division of the Metropolitan Transit Authority.
That's what I meant!!!
It's not like the MTA goes by the DOT!
A NY Daily News Colunmist wrote an opinion piece a day or two ago in support of the workers at the private lines. Contrary to popular belief, these companies are not private at all. There is a big sign at Queens Surface Depot saying NYC Dept. of Transportation. All three depots are owned by the City of New York, not by the private companies...... The buses themselves are not privately owned but are owned by the DOT, City of New York..... Not enough buses on your route? Don't complain to the individual companies because they have no say. The DOT, City of New York sets the schedules. This means that the lousy service is the fault of the city, not the company which the public thinks. The master plan of the city is to get a new operating company or companies, increase service and lie to the public saying: "See we told you how lousy these companies were". And of course the public will believe it! One term Bloomberg and company wants to fire these workers and hire others at cheaper wages and benefits. He is dead wrong when he say that the dispute is between a bunch of workers and private companies. They city is in complete control. In a few years some other mayor down the road will want to get rid of the ones hired with Bloomberg at the helm and the cycle will start over again. But the public doesn't care about the future of these workers, only how to get where they are going today......Is my family being inconvenienced? Absolutely. I get home from work at 1:30 AM and have to get up to take my oldest son to school in the morning. Then instead of taking the Q39 home he has to take the 7 to the Queens Blvd. IND to hook up with the Q58 or Q59 to get home to Maspeth, change clothes, go to work and flip burgers at minimum wage so some other company can pay big dividends to their stockholders!... This strike can easily go on till September and I have my other son starting high school with the same commute. The lost fare box revenue is also costing Queens residents like myself money and time. We drive them full way or part way. Sure the TA revenue may be up a bit, but the real money makers are these dollar vans and taxis. The driving skills of these guys leave much to be desired. Come to Parsons/Archer and watch! The money these guys are raking in, in one week alone could have funded the health benefits. Lost money to the City of New York, not some private company like Bloomberg wants you to believe. The city bargained in bad faith. They said that they would fund the benefits at a certain rate but the finished document had different numbers.
Well said! Wimpberg is proving to be a lousy mayor IMHO.
He isn't a great member, but compared to some of the other candidates he is better. No one will ever be better than Rudy.
Everyone will be better than Rudy, especially with the Police stuations that happened when Rudy was Mayor
i gotta agree with the great one here. every argument about his violent racial polive practices are forgotten due to 9/11? I mean, come on! Sure, he handled the adversity, but you cant judge him on that alone. The same can be said for Bush. Do you remember that after 6 months in offce, he took a month long vacation at his ranch? What did he do on 9/11? He ran away. Simple as that. At least Rudy went within 100 miles of *any* of the areas impacted on 9/11. But one deed does not the man make
i gotta agree with the great one here. every argument about his violent racial polive practices are forgotten due to 9/11?
No, they will be forgotten because they were anti-Rudy LIES by the media. The number of people killed or maimed by police DECREASED under the Giuliani Administration.
RUDY FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008!
Rudy did make the city a much more safer place to be too. The city was really in bad shape when he first came into office.
I guess you should stop posting here, then. Rudy was a good administrator, but a lousy person and too 'law and order' for many of us. I have to check, but Rudy by and far holds the record for his administration being sued and losing. An incredible number of civil rights cases were filed while he was mayor, the majority on first amendment grounds.
-Hank
You're 99% correct with your facts. The Queens Surface garage isn't city owned, however the owner is simply a figurehead. She receives a salary as President/CEO and is chair in name only.
I have it from a reliable source that the strike will not end. The drivers will not return to work. Their goal is to force the city to take them over, even if that means possibly losing the job completely, but they don't believe that will happen.
Instead, they believe that QuSTOA will be created within the Queens Division, separate from NYCT, with no system pick to MaBSTOA, guaranteeing them salary raises, funded HBT and employee protection- exactly the reason they're on strike.
For them, they believe it's a win-win situation, as long as they get to keep their jobs and the strike doesn't run so long as to affect individual's savings accounts to a large degree.
But for now, and the way it looks, QSC, TC and JB are finished as we know them.
But anything can change..... we'll see.
just today at Flushing i saw the WHOLE block full of people waiting for the Q17 and the Q27.also for the Q20A/B and the 44.i couldnt believe it,it was something id never thought id see.these stupid jackasses on strike are dicks....excuse my language but im seriously ticked off about this...anyway,the only thing these stupid Queens DOT drivers give a rats ass about is getting more money in their wallets.they could care less about the people they take around to where ever they need to go.i say if they dont like the pay they're getting,then quit and go find a job that pays more and screw you!its flat out ridiculous,thousands of riders take their buses every damn day and they cant now cause all they want is more stupid money!quit and get another job or play the lottery and pray ya win!but doing this is stupid!if i worked for them,i would just screw all of em and go around doing my job which is helping the public!id take any bus and do any route,unlike them,to me the people are more important than getting more money.im glad that woman screamed and protested against that driver,he/she deserved it big time!
In American business, there are workers and there are owners of the business. I would guess you are the business owner a/k/a the boss. Anda very anti-union one at that. You hire a worker, he/she develops into a great worker, an asset to your business. But people like you refuse to give them a raise in salary or benefits. To hell with their family! To hell with where they live! You would rather be the one who thrives on the fruits of somebody elses labors, dispose of that person, then hire someone else at cheaper wages. If that new person doesn't allow you to thrive, you will dispose of that person and get someone else. This contract dispute is about union busting, pure and simple. All the money lost from the fare box in the past week could have easily funded a new contract.
"Just this morning, I witnessed a potentially nasty confrontation. A woman took the leaflet, crumpled it up and threw it at the striking driver who handed it to her. She yelled that a number of her co-workers were fired yesterday and Monday for being late due to the strike. Someone else joined in, declaring that while the drivers have a right to protest for what they believe in, innocent people are being docked pay, or as this other woman stated, losing their jobs."
Okay, first. Now follow me here...this gets interesting. Now, who in their right minds would go out to a subway station in an area that is hugely affected by the bus strike! In this case, FLUSHING! Q25, Q34, Q65, Q66, QBx1...hello! Why would the bus drivers hand out leaflets explaining to the same passengers that depand on them to drive them to work and school. I agree with that woman, I would have done the same thing. However, why don't those drivers go to an area that is not affected like Jamaica BUs Terminal or Queens Blvd/Woodhaven Blvd. Going to an area like Flushing, Jackson Heights, East Elmhurst and expecting to get sympathy...good luck with that.
Second, my friend told me the other day (and I agree), these bus drivers will be out for a long time. Do you really think that the people of Queens would care? They got the vans and livery cabs. Plus the MTA buses and subways and Green Bus Lines (for now). My friend told me that the bus drivers did this not once but twice...the wildcat strike for two days and now this. The people of Queens would get over this and use to this (according to my friend who is not a driver). I do remember in 1991 or 1992 (Thruston back me up on this), QSC went on strike and it was no big deal for many people who needed the QM4 (The QM4 was OOS at Fresh Meadows Lane and Horace Harding Expwy [near my JHS] and the drivers would get coffee). See, I use to live in Jamaica...so the people who live in SE Queens (JBL buses Q110-Q113) really do not care becuase they always had the vans!
My point is this....I do support the bus drivers and their issues but this going for sympathy is a smack in the face to the people who are out in the cold...like the seniors and children who need to get to school. It will be an interesting summer for these guys because if the city does not get involovd and Mayor Bloomberg is a business man...than it will be a summer of H#LL for NW, Northern, Central and occasionally SE Queens bus riders.
I'm glad they are out there making sure Flushing bus riders know that Wimpberg is the jerk in this strike!
<<< The way he's screwing Queens right now isn't gonna sit to well in the next election, which I'll be suprised if he wins.>>>
Or maybe Bloomberg has enough trouble balancing NYC's finances in the post-9/11 world, and needs that extra $1 million that some people think should be just handed over to the employees of a private contractor. If the city caves in to the DOT bus drivers, what do you think is going to happen when the unions representing actual city workers take their turns at the bargaining table?
And maybe the taxpayers of New York City (many of whom are either unemployed or have seen their own benefits being cut back) will be less than sympathetic towards the bus drivers, and will support their mayor. After all, no one has offered to make up the difference in their pay envelopes to compensate for ever-increasing medical premiums.
I hope those drivers are indeed prepared for the 'prolonged strike' that their leadership has promised. I had to take a one-week furlough last year, and losing five day's worth of pay hurt. I certainly wouldn't want to lose a month's worth of pay. But that's their decision, and they will have to live with the consequences if this thing drags out.
Jim D.
This is weird.....when I'm on BusTalk and I click on Post New Topic, I come to a posting screen that says SubTalk Post; Thank you for contributing on SubTalk! What's up with that???
Anyway, back on topic. I went to Stengal last Sunday, and I spotted FOUR MCIs parked there. Two together by that little blue "toll booth" where the Vikings usually park, and another two behind the big garage thing. They were too far away for me to be able to see their numbers.
On a side note, there were only two Vikings parked by the little blue house. I wonder where the third was on such a beautiful Sunday afternoon?
The 3rd one-998 was parked under the boardwalk-has some defect with it-has been sitting there for about 10 days now.
All of those MCI'S are there for training. I know 2869 and 2873 are there for sure. Not sure about the other 2. When I went there yesterday, I saw only 2 MCI'S. Those buses will be Jamaica Bound once all of the drivers are trained because CS is receiving their own supply of MCI's once QV gets theirs 1st.
#996 X51
That's weird....I checked all the buses by the boardwalk, and I didn't see any New Flyers there. I would've recognized it. It may have been in the repair bay when I was there.
It's either inside the depot or it could be at Lodi, NJ.
#998 X51
MCI #s: 2869,2872 by the Corona storage tracks. The two together are 2853 and 2874.
what's tthe differents between 6000 and 6001?
Is there a different in top speed?
Do 6001 have a rear sign?
Does it have retarder and jacabs engine brake like Njt?
Does it have a twinvission ALL_LED sign?
What kind of engine it got i guess a ddc 60 400hp
thank you
I never even saw the MCIs. I was hoping to see one at the Roadeo, but it wasn't there yet. When are they suppose to be coming in regularly, and will Frontier get any?
when the flyer artic model ever get to flatbush depot and i believe they will will the 5000 series buses leave the depot or the 9300-9400 series leave?
Let's not start that again.
BIG AL
when i worked there in 98, and when i first came on this board long ago that was discussed............once and for all......DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH OK????
the plans for artics at flatbush have been scrapped again.they started training last month on bus 5508. that lasted just about a week . then they stopped abruptly and canned they idea again.
Orion 116 was parked on 34th street at the northeast corner of 3rd avenue today awaiting the run for the X51.
The driver was across the street.
When he comes back, there is a Parking ticket in the wiper.
I never knew OFFICIAL CITY/STATE VEHICLES - especially NYC MTA Buses awaiting the start of a run can receive a parking ticket.
How do you know it was a parking ticket? Maybe somebody else got the ticket and as a joke transfered it to the bus. Did the bus have a front and rear license plate? They give tickets for that too. Gotta get that quota!
Yes had both license plates.
Also know it was for real when the driver took it and placed it with the run card.
I have gotten a parking ticket in manhattan . i use to work the x27 out of gleason in the early 90`s. it was the xmas season and we were warned not to park on madison from 51 street all the way up to 57 th street. i payed no mind to the warning . this one afternoon i left the bus to get a cup of coffee and came back and just watched in amazement at this meter maid writing a parking ticket for my bus. i left it on the windshield. by the time i got down town it blew off. i never heard anything after that.
"i use to work the x27 out of gleason in the early 90`s."
I also had a run on the x27 with a trip on the x25 in the afternoon back in the early 90's. I ad the piece from vacation relief which turned out to be a hold down. I wonder if we worked together?
Anyway, cases are rare, but buses are subject to parking tickets just like any other vehicle on the road. If a meter-maid gives a bus a ticket, chances are, a bus driver made her pay the fare on her way to wherever... They "think" they ride free... but they don't. Like school crossing guards (and when this pattern of allowing them free rides started I'll never know).
i worked the x 27 for the better part of 5 years. 95 was the last year i was there . i`ll be going back on the x`s in about 3 more years.
Was the bus parked in a bus stop?
"Was the bus parked in a bus stop?"
Doesn't matter. Buses are subject to street regulations unless in the process of boarding/alighting passengers. Example:
A bus parks in a legal bus stop when signage prohibits parking on that street. The bus is subject to a ticket- unless it's in service, and boarding/alighting passengers.
Okay then what happens? Does anyone pay the ticket? Does the driver get to pay it lol.
Who's supposed to pay the ticket? The bus is registered to the TA -- i.e., a state agency. Does the city have the authority to give parking tickets to the state?
I'd think the driver has to pay it. Maybe he's have to discuss it with the dispatcher first. But I think it's the driver's problem.
Everybody in Transit is responsible for any parking tickets posted to the vehicle in that person's possession. Not paying USUALLY does not bail the person out. What will happen down the road is eventually, information on the unpaid ticket will get back to transit headquarters. Transit will have the bus number from the ticket, then simply check the records for the operator of said vehicle for that day and exact time, and before you know it, that person will be in the Superintendent's office with some explaining to do. Needless to say, he will be told the ticket is his to satisfy. I can't explain what happened in Newflyer's case, other than the ticket may have been thrown out by NYS, which is rare but does happen, or maybe the ticket was just placed on the bus by some practical joker.
BIG AL
Oh yes, for some time now QSC hasn't been able to park or stand (bus idleing) in that area, so they had to keep going around the block until the time of the run arrives.
Or Leave the Depot late and get to the Termal late for the trip. That what I use to do when I waqs driving a bus.
Robert
Or Leave the Depot late and get to the Termal late for the trip. That what I use to do when I waqs driving a bus. Why risk a accdent driving around the area, just to kill time. I rather do this then killing my lincen.
Robert
But when the Depot is in Queens & the Dispatcher is going to yell if you're late for your run ... you cruise the area if you're a little early.
Sometimes you can get away with parking the bus if you stay in it, BECAUSE you'll get a different ticket of idleing, yuck. When i've gone to a nycDOT meeting via our bus & subways, on the way back I have hung out with the driver & dispatcher until departure time ... something the customer isn't allowed to do, sorry about that.
"But when the Depot is in Queens & the Dispatcher is going to yell if you're late for your run ... you cruise the area if you're a little early."
Oh no! That will NEVER happen with me. The last time a dispatcher yelled at me for being late, he was in private conference with his union rep and depot management.
Need I say more?
If I'm late for my run due to distance or traffic, then let them adjust the schedule. I'm not working on my time free of charge because the TA doesn't want to pay me an extra 20 minutes to ensure their service begins as scheduled.
only my daddy and mommy are allowed to yell at me.
You'd never survive in the dept. of subways. You would have to visit control center on a regular basis to chew out console dispatchers.
Amen to that brother..........
if anyone yells at me on this job i will repeat will make him swallow his own teeth.
just kidding but i bet that is what most people would want to do.
oops...lol
I wouldn't do that. If I was at my terminal stand, and an officer asked me to move, that's when I'd start my trip. I wouldn't go off-route and subject myself to a "preventable" accident. I'd rather leave when instructed, inform depot management, and let them deal with the problem.
do what i do. sit tight till your time to leave.
Today I saw 1035 on the M102.
I thought Quill only used the artics for M23 M79 M86???
Coming soon onto the M102 by popular demand...Jan 2003 is what I heard.
Popular demand? Last I checked, the articulated buses are still disliked by the M79 and M86 riders.
they hate them on the M79 and M86 because if a bus is not full the driver waits a long time for more passengers .thats what i heard at least
R142MAN
BX31
Here is the deal on the M79 and M86:
The buses are almost as long or longer than the stops. If more than 1.5 buses want to use the same stop at the same time, the 2nd bus must wait in a lane of traffic and hold things up, or have the rear half stick out into a lane of traffic.
Because the stops are longer, there are fewer spots for parked cars. This means double parking is more frequent causing more delays.
Because the buses are slower, more people are waiting to get on at each stop. Let's assume that three people arrive at a stop every minute. Let's assume that it is four minutes between buses. That means that 12 people are at the stop. If it takes each person n seconds to board the bus and pay their fare, it takes 12n seconds for everyone to get on. With the slower speeds, it is now five minutes between buses. Now there are 15 people and it takes that much longer. Do a similar equation for each stop and you see why it takes so long.
Because the buses are longer, it takes more time for the people who like to get up at the last minute to get off the bus more time to do so.
Because the buses are longer, people who might otherwise use the rear door on a standard bus will not. This adds time to each stop since they choose to use the front door to exit.
I think I got all the important reasons. Hope this helped.
What were the headways like with the RTS working those routes before?
I ask that because 60' articulated busus were meant to provide up to 50% extra capacity on routes with similar schedules as the shorter buses they take over for. In addition, I do distinctly remember the TA memtioning that on routes that will be served by articulated buses, service replacements would be done on a 2-for-1 basis. Thus, if there was an RTS-served route on a 4-minute schedule being replaced by 60-ft'ers, the service would then be 8 minutes in-between.
If this is what the TA did on the M86 and M79, then they made a foolish blunder by seriously overestimating the capacity capabilities of the D60HF bus. And unfortunatly riders on both routes are made to pay the price.
"In addition, I do distinctly remember the TA memtioning that on routes that will be served by articulated buses, service replacements would be done on a 2-for-1 basis."
That's a false memory (though I've seen it here on BusTalk, and that's probably where "137th St-CCNY" picked it up). Service was replaced on a basis of somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 artics for 4 standard buses/4 artics for 5 standard buses.
David
Which translates into waiting 5 minutes more for a bus that will take longer to get where it's going.
A line with 60 trips that loses 1 of every 5 trips translates into a decrease in service to 48 trips.
That's 20% of your bus service folks.
But during peak hours, TWO of those trips operate on the same time schedule. There are TWO buses arriving at each stop at exactly the same time. Replace BOTH of those buses with ONE artic, and you've got the same service level, admittedly with a slightly increased headway, because the sheep are too stupid to keep moving.
-Hank
Actually, you don't have the same service level. Two RTS buses will hold more passengers than one Artic. With the increase in headway, and decrease in passenger capacity, you lose that much MORE service!
Also, while 2 buses are able to "leap frog" one another, one slinky meanders it's way along the route making every single stop on the line, slower than two RTS buses.
Remember, dwell time cuts into running time, which means the bus has even less time to get to the end of the line.
Too stupid to keep moving? It takes even the smartest passengers in the world some time to enter the bus and pay their fares. If each artic had two front doors and two fareboxes, then I'd agree. But on a crosstown bus, dwell time adds up fast, and the artics increase the dwell time by 50%.
....and you must know that dwell time is not built into the schedule, unless you consider "recovery time" dwell time. I don't.
As a matter of fact, the idiots that create schedules have the bus in 3 different bus stops at the same point in time, which means, they give the bus 20 seconds at each stop between stop A and stop C. Dwell time, stopping for passengers, red lights or stopping for any other reason is never considered when planning schedules. The consideration is based on speed/time mathematic and geographic formula, which dictates the necessary maximum time that a bus travels along a given route.
These schedules look great on paper, though.
Not really. It's a sliding scale, so most of the loss of trips will be at the peak times. A line that had 20 trips in an hour will lose 4, for a total of 16. That's going from a 3-minute headway to a 4-minute headway -- the average rider will wait 30 seconds more.
David
Sounds good on paper David, but in the real world, operating these buses is much different than a standard 40 footer. They don't maneuver in and out of stops as easily, and because your capacity increases, so does your dwell and alight time. What appears on paper as a one minute difference in headway at the beginning of the line, becomes a 10 minute headway at the end of the line.
An increase in running time (to compensate for additional dwell time, etc., associated with articulated buses) is anticipated when articulated buses are about to be put on a route for the first time and is accounted for in the new schedule. Should it be found that even more running time is necessary once the artics are in service, the additional time is provided at the earliest opportunity.
David
I don't think anybody's arguing with that. The point is that an increase in running time means it takes longer for the passengers to reach their destinations.
I once spent 30 minutes on an artic from Broadway to CPW. Half that time was at stops. (We spent close to 10 minutes loading up at Broadway, filling up all the seats at the first stop.) Traffic wasn't unusually bad, and this wasn't even rush hour -- it was mid-afternoon on a Friday. I was going to Lex, but I got off at 5th and walked.
.....and when you increase running time while keeping the headway, you decrease service. Running time isn't "added", it's "adjusted", and usually taken from layover or recovery time.
If your scheduled layover time is 10 minutes (extremely rare these days for any run), and you cut 6 minutes of that layover time to add to running time, you give the bus 4 minutes to reach the terminal, unload, "check the bus for suspicious packages", move to the forward stand, load and leave. This is assuming the bus is running on schedule, which of course, it will not.
In the event that the bus operator wishes to use the restroom (we ARE human), you've effectively trashed the line for the next 30 minutes because rather than rush up the line to try and make it on-time, use the facilities, and still leave on time, which is impossible within a 4 minute time frame, I'll get there when I get there, then take a personal, which removes that bus from service for at least 20 minutes and let the SLD worry about the schedule.
Had I the original 10 minute layover, it all could have been accomplished without disrupting service.
When these idiotic schedule makers cut into my "saniity time", they are only doing a disservice to the general riding public.
The purpose of recovery time is to allow a bus to leave its terminal on time if it arrived there late. It's generally scheduled as a percentage of the total running time (with a 3-minute minimum recovery required by NYCT's contracts with TWU and ATU), so if running time goes up, generally recovery time can be expected to go up as well, proportionally. There will be exceptions, of course, but by and large every effort is made to do things this way in order to ensure that buses leave their terminals on time, an important part of ensuring that they are on time throughout their trips.
David
"The purpose of recovery time is to allow a bus to leave its terminal on time if it arrived there late."
This is true.
"It's generally scheduled as a percentage of the total running time"
Oh, let us have some fun with this one. What percentage generally is used, if I may ask?
"(with a 3-minute minimum recovery required by NYCT's contracts with TWU and ATU),"
How would you expect a recovery time period of one or two minutes to "allow a bus to leave its terminal on time if it arrived there late", when the TA gives itself a 5-minute plus/minus window of on-time performance in the first place!?
Recovery time should be 10 minutes minimum.
"so if running time goes up, generally recovery time can be expected to go up as well, proportionally."
THAT, is an out-and-out falsehood. When running time is added to a trip, it is "generally" taken from the recovery time- UNLESS it violates the contractual 3-minute agreement with the TA. Let's be honest here. You're talking to someone who drives buses for the NYCTA. If the TA had their way, the terminal arrival time would be the terminal departure time as well, with no wasted time having a bus stand not making money, and an operator being squeezed for ahh s/he's worth.
"There will be exceptions, of course, but by and large every effort is made to do things this way in order to ensure that buses leave their terminals on time, an important part of ensuring that they are on time throughout their trips."
{hands over face, laughing, shaking head}
David.... if every bus operator drove their bus according to NYCT's rulebook, NOT ONE SINGLE BUS would be on time, EVER.
Do you dispute this fact?
"Recovery time should be 10 minutes, minimum."
The contractual minimum is 3 minutes. Live with it, or, through collective bargaining, get it changed.
When writing a new schedule, every attempt is made to keep recovery at 10-15% of the running time for each trip (I'm not counting overnights here). I am not lying, and I resent "Brooklyn67"'s saying that I am.
And yes, I vehemently dispute the assertion that operating according to the rule book would prevent every single bus trip from being on time. Some would undoubtedly be late, others would be early, and still others would be on time. That's the case now -- the percentages of each would change somewhat, but not materially.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder which rules "Brooklyn67" chooses to ignore in the name of providing on-time service, and whether any of the other NYCT Bus Operators on this board would be willing to give us the same information about their own driving habits.
DavidDavid
"The contractual minimum is 3 minutes. Live with it, or, through collective bargaining, get it changed. "
I didn't disagree with the post. I disagree with the policy. As far as "living with it" goes, I do what is necessary to ensure I have ample recovery time. I live with it just fine!
"When writing a new schedule, every attempt is made to keep recovery at 10-15% of the running time for each trip (I'm not counting overnights here). I am not lying, and I resent "Brooklyn67"'s saying that I am."
Then explain how a run was added running time, yet lost recovery time. You can resent anything I say. I speak from experience.
At any rate, just the fact that recovery time is based on "percentages" and NOT real-life factors is IDIOTIC!!! And is the reason for continuous bus bunching.
A 40-minute trip on Jamaica Avenue through brooklyn shouldn't have the same 4-5 minutes layover that a 40-minute trip on Hillside Avenue in Queens has.
You just proved my point that the recovery time has nothing whatsoever to do with the individual line in question, but rather, is based on mathematic formula from the comfort of a cubicle.
BTW- what's your definition of "overnights"?
"And yes, I vehemently dispute the assertion that operating according to the rule book would prevent every single bus trip from being on time. Some would undoubtedly be late, others would be early, and still others would be on time. That's the case now -- the percentages of each would change somewhat, but not materially. "
Then you are woefully out-of-touch with reality. Like to test my assertation? Ride buses driven by ONLY probationary NYCT bus operators. Let me know how many of them run according to your schedule. If you get home in time to log on.
"Just out of curiosity, I wonder which rules "Brooklyn67" chooses to ignore in the name of providing on-time service, and whether any of the other NYCT Bus Operators on this board would be willing to give us the same information about their own driving habits. "
I run according to the rules and regulations, placing safety and service above schedule. Placing safety and service above schedule will always render a bus late, because these schedules that are posted are ridiculiously absurd, and cannot be mainained when running according to the rulebook.
Do you even have a copy of the rulebook?
Do you know anything about operating buses?
I think not.
Look, David- being a bus fan is one thing. Being an employee is one thing. Combined, they are two things, but neither qualify you to officially comment on bus operations when you don't operate buses. It's that simple.
There are things I know nothing about with respect to scheduling, however I receive the final outcome: the official schedule created by someone who doesn't drive a bus.
There are things you will never know about bus operating, and can never learn from a cubicle or BBS forum.
Period.
A 40-minute running time, in "Brooklyn67"'s example, reflects the traffic conditions on the route at the time it is in effect, whether the route is in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or wherever, not the length of the route or the type of neighborhood it goes through or anything else.
Probationary employees are (mostly) inexperienced at operating a bus and know that they are one mistake away from termination or at best a continuation of probation. They therefore tend to operate not only within the rules, but well beyond what the rules call for. As they gain experience and lose their probationary status, they (in general) tend to gain confidence and operate closer to the average.
Yes, I have a copy of the rulebook. I also have a copy of the contract. BTW, "Brooklyn67" didn't answer my question as to what rules he fails to observe in order to provide on-time service. I'd also at this point like to know what rules he'd like NYC Transit to ignore in the name of making things easier on management's end -- it's a two-way street.
My definition of overnights is 1-5 AM. The 10-15% recovery factor is a rule of thumb. It's not going to apply to every trip on every route at every time of the day. Sometimes, more recovery is given, sometimes less -- less tends to be given at times when equipment use is at a peak, because giving additional recovery time would cost buses (a balance has to be struck between giving gobs of recovery time and blowing the budget -- I'm pretty sure "Brooklyn67" will disagree with this philosophy, and I can understand why, but that's just the way things are). I-N G-E-N-E-R-A-L, though, every attempt is made to adhere to a 10-15% recovery factor.
I am a manager for NYC Transit, in a position where I am intimately familiar with the things being talked about in this thread, perhaps more so than "Brooklyn67," at least from management's end. It is true I have never driven a bus, but I wouldn't have gotten to the position I'm in now if I didn't know the job thoroughly.
At this point, I think we're beginning to go around in circles. I'm willing to "agree to disagree" if "Brooklyn67" and other interested parties are.
David
I, too, am a manager with NYC Transit and, like David, I am intimately familiar with the subject of recovery time. I am also a resident (for now) of SE Queens where "Brooklyn67" drives his bus
and I am extremely well versed on all of the routes in the area.
That being said, I took "Brooklyn67's" comments toward David about never driving a bus very personally. I make every effort to ensure that a route has sufficient recovery time. This becomes an increasingly crucial factor when you take in account the characteristics of a given route. For example, a route that serves two major CBD's (the Q3, Q17 or Q44/20 to name a few), in addition to densely populated residential areas such as Fresh Meadows or Rochdale Village, I make every effort to make sure that recovery time is at least 20% of the total running time. David is correct in stating that we try to give 10-15% most of the time. To add to that, we are given certain budgetary constraints--not set by us, but by the MTA Board--that may force us to "cheat" here of there with recovery time in order to save a bus or a run. I hate doing that, but, hey, what can you do.
No, I have never driven a bus either, nor will I ever (I wish I had). However, just because I never sat behind the wheel doesn't give anyone the right to look down on me or David as no-nothing suits who screw up your schedules. Without sounding too boastful, myself, David and others on this board, can hold our own against the most seasoned of all field personnell. I also would like to add that we greatly respect and LEARN from Superintendents, Dispatchers and Bus Operators. We make every effort to put ourselves in "the seat" and being bus-fans makes it that much easier and fun to do.
In closing, Brooklyn67, I respect you and your insights. You bring great stuff to BT. However, don't underestimate those of us who never drove a bus, but are in decision making postions. Some of us actually know a thing or two.
Mark
Mark wrote, in part:
"In closing, Brooklyn67, I respect you and your insights. You bring great stuff to BT. However, don't underestimate those of us who never drove a bus, but are in decision making postions. Some of us actually know a thing or two."
Mark, I don't underestimate you, or your capabilities where your job performance is concerned. I do insist however, that a manager who never operated a bus lacks certain knowledge and insights one can only learn from experience. You're probably an excellent manager, doing whatever it is you do (apparently Scheduling/OP) however you lack insights one can only obtain by actually performing the job you manage.
The point is, a bus operator who is promoted through the ranks will have a better understanding of those details than another manager who is simply hired without the experience.
At any rate, I appreciate your respectful rebuttal. I expected a reaction not unlike "David".
I suppose we could get into specific run running times on various routes, but I doubt it would solve anything, so I'll accept your answer/reply because as a bus operator, there are facets of your job that I will never know or understand- and to be perfectly blunt (as I always am), and honest (as I always attempt to be), it wouldn't matter nor would I care. The optimum goal at NYCT is to provide public transportation at minimum operating expenses.
It's when these expenses are cut at my end do I have a problem. Running time and recovery time are the two most important factors in implementing and designing a schedule. It would help (and reduce accidents/blown trips) if the schedule actually reflected a realistic timeframe, rather than based upon a mathematical formula and/or minimal operating expenses. In the long run, and in reality, we lose funding via poor on-time performance when I take my 20 minute personal and forego the schedule because 3 minutes is not a realistic recover period. Now, I know this isn't your concern at your level, but it is at my level. And this is how it works in the real world. This is why there is additional bus bunching, missing buses, lost trips, etc.
"David" wrote, in part:
"I am a manager for NYC Transit, .... It is true I have never driven a bus, .... "
I think that pretty-much sums-it-up for me.
Thank you, "David".
I have worked with people who had driven buses at some point before coming to my office (our "off the road" people come from the rank of Dispatcher). Some of them were excellent; some were fair-to-middlin'; some were poor at their jobs.
I have worked with people who came from the administrative side of the house. Some of them were excellent; some were fair-to-middlin'; some were poor at their jobs.
Having been a Bus Operator does not necessarily make one a good paper-pusher in an transportation operating environment. Having been in an administrative position does not necessarily make one a bad paper-pusher in a transportation operating environment.
I'll let my numerous promotions and merit raises speak for me. I'll also let the fact (to which Mark can attest) that I'm one of the people my colleagues come to for direction and work-related advice speak for me. I'm still waiting to hear from "Brooklyn67" as to what rules he chooses to break 'in the interest of providing on-time service,' (note the single quotes, denoting a general idea, and not the double quotes, denoting a direct attribution of his words), and what rules (that benefit him and other Bus Operators) he would like NYC Transit to break in return. Something tells me I won't.
David
Well, Brooklyn67, I didn't mean to butt-in to your's and David's debate (and a great one it is). As I mentioned in my prior post, I learn a lot from all field personnell including bus operators. We should not spend a lot of time trying to convince each other that we are knowledgeable/competitant. I know you definitely know your stuff.
I understand the importance of recovery and running time when it comes to making an effective schedule, however, schedules are NOT based on any mathematical formulas like you saw in calculus. They are based on the results from your friendly neighborhood Traffic Checkers. But wait Brooklyn67! Before you go there, it is common knowledge that not all T/C data is, what you would call gospel. If T/C results call for dramatic changes to a schedule, managers from OP and/or DOB check the route themselves. Traffic Check data opens up a whole new can of worms, however, but if you want to get into that, I'd be happy to.
Building a schedule taking into account things that may or may not happen along a given route is not only counter-productive, but it is also not a very realistic proposition. Granted that every day something may happen along the Q43 at various points along the route. However, one of those incidents may take place at different timepoints along the route. That's why you have Road Control.
Again, Brooklyn67, thanks for your opinions and insights.
"Well, Brooklyn67, I didn't mean to butt-in to your's and David's debate (and a great one it is). As I mentioned in my prior post, I learn a lot from all field personnell including bus operators. We should not spend a lot of time trying to convince each other that we are knowledgeable/competitant. I know you definitely know your stuff."
Knowing my stuff isn't important. There seems to be a great deal of importance here regarding "who knows what" and "who has the info first". I'm not party to those discussions, because I'm not a "busfan". I'm a bus driver.
As I've said, I know how to drive a bus, and just about everything that goes along with it. It's what I do to feed myself, and my family. I should know my job. We all should know our jobs well enough to discuss them with those who don't.
I enjoy debating issues; that's no secret here, or anywhere you've seen me post. It's no different for me on the job. I'm the same at the depot or the union meetings as I am right here. That said, I also learn from the contributors here. I learned from David that there is a formula in use which creates recovery time. I did not know that, but then again, I shouldn't. My job isn't to create a schedule. It's to abide by it. And complain about it when it's unrealistic. And do something about it when that's the case.
I believe a schedule should not be a matter between management and the union, but rather implemented to best service the general riding public; not based on mathematical formula as stated earlier in this thread, but rather, based on true traffic and obstacle data as obtained by traffic checkers (ahem.. see below).
"I understand the importance of recovery and running time when it comes to making an effective schedule, however, schedules are NOT based on any mathematical formulas like you saw in calculus. They are based on the results from your friendly neighborhood Traffic Checkers."
Golly, now I'm confused. In an earlier post, David stated that recovery time was usually maintained at 10% - 15% of the total runs' running time. Am I incorrect to assume that recovery time is part of a schedule? Or is recovery time a separate entity unto itself? Please elaborate.
"But wait Brooklyn67!"
Mmm. Hmmmm...
"Before you go there, it is common knowledge that not all T/C data is, what you would call gospel."
I think it's safe to say I agree with you.
"If T/C results call for dramatic changes to a schedule, managers from OP and/or DOB check the route themselves. Traffic Check data opens up a whole new can of worms, however, but if you want to get into that, I'd be happy to."
Sure, why not? Why is it that some, and I said SOME checkers have my paddle report and sleep their 4 hours away on my bus, then edit their information after my half has completed by asking me "how full was your bus" or "were you late" and "did you make your announcements"??
Of course, the majority of TC's do their job. However, I also do their job along with them to verify their count status. I've had checkers on my bus who couldn't count. I've gone so far as to inquire the count of a given trip, then stop my bus to take a formal count with the TC, and had that TC adjust her count mid-run. Why would I do this? Because it makes NO SENSE to have a checker on my bus who is submitting false and inaccurate data that will only hurt me, and my passengers on the next pick when that incorrect data is used to cut running time and/or recovery time.
"Building a schedule taking into account things that may or may not happen along a given route is not only counter-productive, but it is also not a very realistic proposition. Granted that every day something may happen along the Q43 at various points along the route."
If we use our TC data correctly and responsibly, and with a bit of intelligence, we can see our obvious trouble spots along a given route. Trouble spots that occur a majority of the time. Given this fact, it's easy to adjust a schedule according to that data obtained. Anything less is irresponsible and a disservice to the general riding public who is reading a schedule from on a box on the corner and expects a bus to be in that stop at the given time, which will not be there at that time because of the persistent delays that the NYCTA/OP department refuses to address.
"However, one of those incidents may take place at different timepoints along the route. That's why you have Road Control."
"Okay operator, keep going".
Do we need to get into THAT facet of bus operations as well? I'd love to entartain this issue, if you'd care.
:-)
"Again, Brooklyn67, thanks for your opinions and insights."
and...
"Thank you for riding with New York City Transit. Have a nice Day!"
Traffic Checkers are another topic that I can speak intimately about. T/C's for the most part do their jobs well. However, I have personally seen with my own eyes Traffic Checkers "sawing wood" when they're supposed to be conducting a ride check.
I wish we had more b/o's like you who are willing to take the initiative and double check a t/c's counts. However, you shouldn't have to. Your only responsibility is to operate your bus safely. Both you and I, know the deal about that, however. For as long as I can remember, upper management has struggled with collecting quality data. That's all I'll say about that.
As far as what you said about adjusting schedules based upon trouble spots determined through traffic checks, we absolutely do. But instead of going back and forth on this issue, let's be specific. What routes do you feel lacks running/recovery. Lets get down to brass tacks here, shall we?
Mark
Simple scheduling question:
Q46 Limited from UTSPB - next stop - UT188, timepoint @ UTUTP.
Q46 Local from UTSPB - all stops to and timepoint @ UTUTP.
Q46 Limited leaves UTSPB @ 8:04AM. Leaves UTUTP @ 8:14AM.
Q46 Local leaves UTSPB @ 8:03AM. Leaves UTUTP @ 8:13AM.
Why does the Q46 limited receive the same running time between UTSPB and UTUTP as the local?
In 2000, the Q46 Limited went from UTUTP limited to UTMAS with 6 minutes running time and no stops between.
Today, the Q46 Limited stops at UTUTP, UT164, UT150 and UTMAS, all with the same 6 minutes running time.
Consider:
The stop at 164th has a red light with a turn signal. (One minute, 30 seconds.)
The stop at 150th Street has a red light. (One minute)
There is no longer fluid travel between UTUTP and UTMAS making lights in progression (Stop before UTMAS @ red light- 30 seconds [arrow with green inbound]).
Time lost making 2 extra bus stops (which by design, cannot make any of the lights as they are progressively controlled):
1:30
1:00
0:30
____
3:00
Total running time lost between UTUTP and UTMAS:
3:00
No additional dwell time unless stragglers flag bus.
Total *actual* running time between UTUTP and UTMAS:
3:00
It wouldn't take a brain surgeon to remove 3 minutes running time from the section between UTSPB and UTUTP where the limited makes only one other stop, and placing it between UTUTP and UTMAS where the bus makes two additional stops without benefit of any extra running time.
If 6 minutes were enough running time for the next stop before 2 more stops were added, it stands to reason that the extra time would be afforded where it's necessary.
What sense does it make to drag the line (with 40-50 people) to UTUTP, then fly down the line between UTUTP and UTMAS?
No sense.
That's my point.
Uniform headway looks great on paper. It doesn't work in reality.
Interesting. I guess I asked for that and I'm glad you provided an example. You will be happy to know that the Q46 Weekday, Saturday and Sunday schedules have been revised (running times and frequency) for the Fall 2002 pick. Because of the open forum we have here, I won't be too specific as to the changes made. I guess you'll have to wait and see when the union gets a hold of the pick by the end of July.
The two LTD stops that were added were added by Planning without revising the schedule, hence the same running time. Therefore, I wouldn't expect it to work too well.
I will say this. The LTD's all over Queens, especially the Q46, get hammered with long dwell times. No one likes locals and that is clearly the case along Union Tpke.
I promise I'll check your point and get back to you.
Mark
Thank you!
You're welcome, and as promised, I looked at the new Q46 schedule (the recap actually) and it appears as though the schedule maker who put this monstrosity together did a masterful job with the running time.
There are no instances where the local and limited have the same running time as you pointed out and this time the two additional stops have been accounted for. If you pick the 46 this fall let me know how the new schedule is (I'm sure you will). It has the same number of runs (48), to go along with a few extra trips on the Miscellaneous.
Mark
I'm not picking the Pike until QS returns to work. But it figures that after 6 years of terrible scheduling, they finally make adjustments. And of course, these adjustments come after I've picked elsewhere :-)
I'd been chewing Billy's ear for the longest while about that running time. Nice to see someone is reaping the benefits.
When adjustments are made in the field, they contradict the bookings of checkers, the passing road supt, and the replacement sld at the post.
Anyway, thanks for checking into the matter. You stated there are the same number of weekday runs (48). Are there the same number of misc runs, or have they changed?
Thanks
The 20+ extra trips that have been placed on the 46 have been pretty much absorbed by the miscellaneous runs, resulting in an increase in "300" runs to about 35 or 36 if memory serves me correct.
Mark
As you know, I am not a bus operator, but I am simply trying to use some common sense here. Just like management is accused by the workers of making decisions without knowing what the real operating conditions are, the union is equally guilty when it comes to the 3 minute recovery time minimum. It is up to the bus operators to ask the new union leadership to negotiate this at the bargaining table to get this adjusted. Even with ideal traffic conditions, the 3 minutes are are thrown out the window if a wheelchair customer is transported. The B18 has 3 minute recovery at various times on the weekends. Couple this with double parkers on Wycoff and Cypress Ave's. and you have a recipe for lateness. Hopefully, the new B13 as of September will address this issue. Understandably, management would resist any increase in recovery time since those minutes add up over the course of a workday and could cause a job to go over 8 hours, more if the job is already over 8 hours to begin with.............. In regard to the the 10 to 15% recovery time attempt, let's take 2 FP routes, the B57 and Q58. I have a paddle report for one of the daily B57 runs. This job does 4 round trips. At Livingston, he has the following recovery times: 13 minutes, 7, 10 and 9. At 64/Grand, he has (pull out), 11, swing, 5, clear. In contrast, the Q58, which of course is a longer route and has much more scheduled service, the recovery time is much shorter. I realize that we don't want bus bunch bunching at the terminals if the bus is on time but that seldom happens here! I am told the recovery time is generally 7 minutes. That doesn't work at all. Just ride from College Point Blvd to Main St., unload, load, and the bus is late. In additon, with no other problems, more recovery time is needed by virtue of transversing the LIE from 108 St. to College Point Blvd. Most of the time traffic is horrendous and the recovery time at the end of the line is eaten up just in this area alone.
As you know, I am not a bus operator,
Don't feel compelled to address this fact simply because a previous discussion led to the point. You don't have to be a bus operator to post here, nor do you have to be one to understand many facets of the job. It's when someone else, who is an employee, but is not an operator, feels they have acquired enough knowledge based on their other position to address situations that operators face daily, and publicize those opinions as fact, do operators, in general have a problem.
In addition to Bus Talk, we, as operators, have our own message forums.
but I am simply trying to use some common sense here.
That gives you a leg-up on management already.
Just like management is accused by the workers of making decisions without knowing what the real operating conditions are, the union is equally guilty when it comes to the 3 minute recovery time minimum.
Not all mamagement. Unless you don't consider dispatchers as management. Some consider them supervision. Both the line SLD and their superior, the Supt of Transportation both understand every facet of the job that operators face daily. Sometimes, what winds-up happening, is that through labor relations discussions, we change the publicized provided schedules handed to us from Operations Planning at the depot level because they are unrealistic. This creates a problem because now buses are running on a different posted schedule. It's happened to me many times.
As far as the union being guilty, that's not true. We do have a "voice", but the TA has the final say about scheduling. They do not have to address the concerns of the union in an implementary fashion where schedules are concerned.
The ultimate decision of scheduling resides with operations planning. When they goof, and they goof often, we try to change the schedule at the depot level. Sometimes they goof for the better- one trip on the Q-31 had the operator pulling out to a terminal, then deadheading to the other terminal, then pulling-in! LOL
It is up to the bus operators to ask the new union leadership to negotiate this at the bargaining table to get this adjusted.
Nope. We don't see the schedule until after it's been posted. That's why, we make corrections at the depot level.
Even with ideal traffic conditions, the 3 minutes are are thrown out the window if a wheelchair customer is transported.
That's true, and moreso with the newer Nova because that bus does not have a wheel clamp which enables quick securement. Instead, these buses have 4 straps that must be secured- one of which is located in a locked compartment that must be secrued to the floor, as well as the restraint buckle. This takes much more time than the simple clamp securement system.
The B18 has 3 minute recovery at various times on the weekends. Couple this with double parkers on Wycoff and Cypress Ave's. and you have a recipe for lateness.
Which is my point regarding "real world" scheduling, and not scheduling based on useless mathematical formula.
Hopefully, the new B13 as of September will address this issue.
I'm willing to wager they do not.
Understandably, management would resist any increase in recovery time since those minutes add up over the course of a workday and could cause a job to go over 8 hours, more if the job is already over 8 hours to begin with..............
That doesn't matter from the standpoint you're thinking of. I believe 65% of all runs pay higher than 8 hours straight time, but I'm not sure on that number. The solution is to give the necessary runing/recovery time, then cut a trip off the run if necessary, having another run cover that specific trip (uf necessary).
I realize that we don't want bus bunch bunching at the terminals if the bus is on time but that seldom happens here!
That's also a scheduling issue. There are many runs that have overlap schedules. Run A arrives at a given terminal at 7:00 and leaves at 7:09, however, run B deadheads from elsewhere, arrives at the same terminal at 6:57, and leaves that same terminal at 7:05. You now have 2 buses at the same terminal, the latter leaving first. Not that this is a big issue, but it has 2 buses in the same terminal at the same time, which is a visible annoyance to the people waiting for a bus they think is "making them wait".
I am told the recovery time is generally 7 minutes. That doesn't work at all. Just ride from College Point Blvd to Main St., unload, load, and the bus is late. In additon, with no other problems, more recovery time is needed by virtue of transversing the LIE from 108 St. to College Point Blvd. Most of the time traffic is horrendous and the recovery time at the end of the line is eaten up just in this area alone.
I had a run on the Q-88. At 6:30 in the morning when the LIE is wide open, I was afforded 8 minutes running time from College Point Blvd to 108th Street with 7 minutes recovery at Queens Blvd. Then, my next trip at around 8:00am, I was given 5 minutes running time between CPB and 108, when traffic was at a dead stand still, during the heart of rush hour, and afforded 4 minutes recovery time at Queens Bl.
Tell me how logic plays a part in scheduling. It doesn't. Money does, and saving it is the only way schedules are created.
Y'know what? I'm done.
I am the person being alluded to in "Brooklyn67"'s post (to which I'm responding now). I was not posting OPINIONS, as "Brooklyn67" alleges. I was posting FACTS. If he chooses to disagree, that's his business, though I fail to see the logic in disagreeing with facts.
In any event, to repeatedly call me a liar and to treat the factual information I have provided as a lay person's opinion (even though he acknowledges that I work for NYCT) is beyond comprehension and beyond my acceptance threshold.
I once respected and admired "Brooklyn67" for the depth and breadth of his knowledge as well as his willingness to share his experience with others. I have refused, up to this point, to make this a personal matter, but it appears that he has a vendetta against me. So be it. I don't killfile anyone as a matter of policy (and if I did I wouldn't make it public as some posters have), but I have lost all respect and admiration for "Brooklyn67" and don't see how I can take anything he says seriously. If that means nothing to him or everything to him, I don't give a rat's you-know-what.
As to Dispatchers, in NYCT they are supervision, not management. That is an incontrovertible FACT. They obtain their positions by taking promotional exams, they pick their assignments, and they are unionized (in fact, it's the same union as many NYCT Bus Operators -- TWU).
By the way, the 10-15% recovery time I cited in another thread, that "Brooklyn67" takes issue with, is pretty much standard thoughout the industry. At $25,000 annually per peak bus (don't believe me? check with the Office of Management and Budget), if additional recovery time on each route costs just ONE peak bus, and NYCT has over 200 routes (which it does), the costs start to mount up quickly -- not to mention the additional Bus Operators required to support the same level of service to the customer, but with additional recovery time. That money is just not there, and even if it were, that's not the most prudent use of the money. That said, however, running time is far from the only factor in making an efficient schedule. The schedulemakers want a new schedule to work well so it serves the public properly and so it will continue to serve the public properly for some time.
As to running time problems, yes, they crop up on occasion. They're identified by the schedulemakers when they look at traffic checking data, they're brought to the attention of the schedulemakers by Department of Buses management or sometimes by Dispatchers (and investigated), or they're brought to the attention of the schedulemakers by whichever union happens to represent the Bus Operators on the route in question (and, again, investigated). If a problem is identified and corroborated, it gets corrected at the earliest opportunity, often the next Pick. Perhaps "Brooklyn67," instead of grousing about problems here on Bustalk after the fact and complaining about how the schedulemakers handle things, should go to supervision, management, or his own union and ask for something to be done.
David
At this point, I think we're beginning to go around in circles. I'm willing to "agree to disagree" if "Brooklyn67" and other interested parties are.
Then...
Y'know what? I'm done.
You then proceeded to post your dissertation from a personal standpoint, with redundant replies to messages already posted.
I am a manager for NYC Transit, ..... I have never driven a bus...
Oh yes, now I remember.
Ya know what, David? I really couldn't care any less what you think of me one way or another. I post facts, as I expreience them, without sugarcoating and without the double-talk that comes from upper-level management. The truth is the truth, regardless of your own personal opinion(s).
I don't post replies offering WHY schedules are the way they are (with the exception of the fact that they are created by employees in cubicles who never drove a bus, and who know nothing about the "real world" of bus driving, but who are subject to regulations, or *formulas* pre-set for them in advance), I post messages referencing the schedules AS THEY ARE ISSUED and refute at every turn, your posted reasonings because *I* am the final recipieent of those schedules, and know better than anyone else if they are reasonable or otherwise.
You seem to have a problem differentiating between the two.
Just because you're an FDNY clerical doesn't mean you know anything about putting out a fire. And god help those involved if that were to happen.
I continued to post because it was very apparent that "Brooklyn67" did NOT "agree to disagree" and there were no other interested parties. The postings I made, that he referred to, were made about 25 hours apart, during which time my reputation was sullied more than once and my competence as a manager for NYCT was called into question more than once. These things I cannot abide. And again: the information I posted with respect to recovery time issues was factual, not opinion. No amount of saying it's an opinion will make it such.
I had no intention of getting personal, and did not do so until these attacks on my credibility and other facets of my existence continued and intensified.
As I said before, some of the employees who do what I do were Bus Operators; others were not. I defy ANYONE (management, labor, or otherwise) to tell, just by looking at the results, what was done by an ex-Bus Operator and what was done by someone who came up as an administrative employee.
If I were a clerical for FDNY, it is indeed likely that I would not know how to put out a fire (at least, no more than any lay person would be likely to know). However, if I were in a position where I had to determine how many people it takes to staff each firehouse and how many firetrucks are required given statistics such as call volume, I would know very well how to do that -- and THAT's the correct analogy.
My olive branch is still extended: I'm willing to "agree to disagree" if "Brooklyn67" is. We don't have to agree on everything -- life would be very boring if everyone agreed on everything. But let's respect that each of us knows his job and each of us has something valuable to bring to this board.
David
David... I do NOT disagree that you bring valuable information to the table. You, probably more than most, disspell rumors and offer the most "inside information" of anyone on this board.
However, in that same context, there ARE facets of this job that you will never know by sitting in an office in Brooklyn. As there are facets of this job that I will never know stuck in the seat of a bus. Yet, given the above, there will be differences in how procedure is applied in the "real world" as opposed to a read manuscript where bus operation is concerned.
When I post "how it really is", and you debunk my post as opinion, you do a disservice to the thread and to yourself by not allowing yourself the opportunity to learn something about how operations are implemented in the field.
A rulebook, or schedule, is only as good as those who implement and apply them. An SLD superceeds the rulebook, because, adjustments are necessary in the real world.
Care to move on?
"Care to move on?"
Sounds good to me.
David
Boy this was great stuff, guys.
You can say that again. I can't remember when bustalk was this good. The problem boils down to this: we're dealing with two individuals who are both right, yet have opposing views to dealing with a problem that I believe can not be solved to the extent where both parties can ever feel mutually satisfied. Bottom line: What came first, the chicken or the egg?
BIG AL
Leave it to Big Al... the mediator, and SLD who still thinks he's a bus driver ;-) You're okay, my man.
corecct me if im wrong but did someone say slds belong to the same union as bus drivers? as a matter of fact they belong to sssa. i should know as i spent 5 weeks in the position in 1988.
SSSA was recently absorbed into the TWU.
David
The ratio was somewhat less but yes, that is what they did. They then brought the service back to the original levels but note what I said about the amount of time it takes at each stop. That still didn't make things as good as before. What they have to do is add more buses with the artics, since the trip takes longer.
this bus has been on m102 for two months now where have you been
I'm from SI - rarely do I see these buses - mostly ones on the west side and downtown.
Bring the last 17 2002 MCI buses to Yukon Bus Depot instead of Ulmer Park Depot to increase more express bus service that come out of Yukon Bus Depot.
WHY? They have enough MCI's to begin with. UP needs them more than
YUK does. I saw 9340 on X29 today. A Nova Suburban on a line that has plenty of MCI Suburbans? I just don't think so.
Only lines that you'll see Suburbans other than MCI's are the X32 X90 and X92.
#1979 X17
#1852 X90
#9277 X92
#617 X32
#9340 X29
Instead of telling your idea on this board, why don't you write a letter to the MTA instead?
BIG AL
Busfan to the killfile. That name and those questions aggrevate me.
Who are you telling this to??
Perhaps putting a 'Dear Mr Seay' in front of the statement and tacking a stamp on it would get u some action
UP only Has 95 MCI: 2755-2804, 2165-2209 that not Enough For the X25, X27,X28,X29 friday at 9:50 AM i Saw Nova #9332 Deadheading to 57th Sreet on 9 AV with the X27 on it we Need more MCI not YUkon and to Madision TA does not want the Express around every depot that why they are all i UP plus ENY is too far from the X27, X28, X29
#9299 B4
#9301 B3
#9340 B74
#9329 B64
#9095 B6
The Ulmer Park Yard Dispatchers and Bus Operators should read the schedule face sheets for the X2737 and the X2838. Each CLEARLY states that only high-capacity coaches (MCIs) are to be used on these routes. That is because the schedules are built on the assumption that MCIs will be used...putting an RTS in there, at least in the rush hours, results in instant overcrowding. The X29 schedule is built for RTSs -- if an extra MCI is available it can be operated there, but it's not required. There have been times when, on the same day, in the same rush hour, the X29 has a MCI bus while people are shorhorned into a RTS on the X2737 or X2838.
David
Hey if the Yard Disp and the B/O are buds . The B/O will get a nice bus if its available at the time .
How many express buses from Yukon Bus Depot are stored at the Arthur Kill Rd/Richmond Av bus lot.
Constant questions with no contributions to this board cause people to get kill-filed.
BIG AL
Just want to know on where the Park-n-Ride is being built there & when it's opened, will the express buses continue to park there because it would be difficult for buses to enter the new Park-n-Ride when it opens.
Just want to know why you're asking so many questions and not voicing anything else on this board? Getting set up for Da Kill-Arthur Kill that is.
#1979 X1
Where is it being built???? Am i the only one who saw the answer in the subject line??
"difficult for buses to enter the park and ride when it opens'........... so why build it if it difficult to enter as u claim it might well be?
All these questions and no question marks in your posts.
I posted the answers to these questions, and several other of your posts, several days ago. The answers have not changed. Things are still being built in the same place, you can only store so many things in one location, and without any new places built to store things, guess what? They'll continue to be stored in the same place.
-Hank
with the strike going on in Queens,and even though Green Bus Lines is not effected,i still always thought that the MTA should make a new bus route that ran from some point in Queens to B116th St and Mott Ave-Far Rockaway.Every other bus would go to each place.So for example,every a bus every 20mins to B116th and Mott Av,every 10mins before they split off to each destination.I think this is a good idea and that the TA should consider it.ya never know when Green Lines will go on strike for the same reason and there can be at least one MTA route to help those people in the Rockaways get to another section of Queens for transfers to points beyond.I think they should name this new route the Q57 or maybe the Q61,whatever route doesnt exsist currently,Q57 being most preferable.What do you all think?
That would not be union soliditary. Your suggestion causes TA drivers to enter the teritory of their union brothers.
I don't know the specifics of "union solidarity" as it applies in this case, but what about when TA subway shuttle buses are sent to the Rockaways? Or what about places where more than one company runs on the same street like in Jamaica or Flushing? What determines "territory" of the Union brothers?
Shuttle buses are sent to the Rockaways to cover for suspended service due to a General Order. Roger Toussaint is the president of the union representing the drivers at Triboro-Queens Surface-Jamaica Bus. He has a working relationship with Larry Hanley who is the head of the UTU who represents Queens TA drivers. There are TA workers in a solidarity role who are joining the private drivers on the picket line during their off duty time. If these TA drivers do work on routes handled by the privates, then Bloomberg and company would have no incentive to settle the dispute. This includes additional service run on routes where the TA and privates overlap.
In the case when there is no strike going on, could the TA establish and run a regular bus route to the Rockaways? That's what I was wondering about. I was wondering why there would be a problem there, when TA routes and private routes run side by side in places like Jamaica and Flushing.
Where will you want to start the bus from
Jamaica
Flushing
Bus Routes usually need two terminals
You indicate one terminal area as the Rockaways
PLease advise
Thank You
I am not proposing any specific route or routes. If you look at the first post of this thread, "V Train M 20 Bus" was asking about a route going to the Rockaways, and Bill from Maspeth responded about "Union Solidarity", and I was asking questions regarding that.
PLease advise
Thank you
i wasnt asking about a route going to the Rockaways,i was saying that the TA should consider creating a new route that would go to the Rockaways from another part of Queens,cant really think of an area at the moment.That way,just in case Green Lines goes on strike just like the rest of those losers,at least 1 MTA route can take people from the Rockaways to the nearest subway station or something.
Instead of people in the Rockaways taking a bus to the nearest subway, Why not just have the people go to the nearest subway?
well ok perhaps i mispoke there.what i meant to say was having a route taking people to a major stop in Queens which as i put on another post,in Jamaica at either the 165th bus terminal or Jamaica Center of course also serving the LIRR Jamaica Sta. from there run along the Q24 route to Woodhaven Blvd then along the Q53 route straight into the Rockaways but the difference is its local unlike the 53 which is non stop untill it gets to Broad Channel.it splits to go to either B116th or Mott Av following the Q22 route.
I doubt it. It would interfere with Green Line Bus service going to the Rockaways. TA could probably take over the Q21. But Green Line would not let their Q35 go without a fight.
Yes and no. Yes, it's union territory, but no, the union in question is not TWU 100; IIRC, Queens is ATU territory.
Where in Queens will this new bus originate from before they reach the Rockaways?
Your idea only has a bus that terminates in Queens which duplicates the Subway?
Please be specific
Thank You
I cant be specific because i cant think of a perfect place of origin yet.im not that good at thinking of things on the spot,once i look over the Queens Bus Map,i'll have a perfect origin for this new route,till then please stand by *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppp*
scratch that,after just looking through the Queens Bus Map ive found 2 possible starting points.1: 165th ST Bus Terminal.2:Jamaica Center.
Both in Jamaica obviously.now if there isnt enough space for another route at the 165th st terminal,which i really think there isnt,then it can start at Jamaica Center and follow the Q24 route along Atlantic Ave to Woodhaven Blvd then go straight down Woodhaven just like the Q53 does but making local stops unlike the 53 where after 63rd Dr the next stop is not untill Broad Channel.Once in the Rockaways in can split off toward B116th following the Q53 or to Mott Av following the Q22.and BAM there's your new MTA Bus route from Jamaica-the Rockaways.and as i wish it to be called the Q57 the destination signs can be read as follows:
Q57 Jamaica Parsons Archer or
Q57 Jamaica 165th St Term.
Q57 Rock PK B116 St.
Q57 Far Rockaway Mott Ave.
or as i saw in a post just now,the TA could take control of the Q21 and that can be used the same it does now except it runs way more frequent than it does now and it can get extended to Jamaica Center and have 2 service patterns,one to B116th and one to Mott Ave.perfect example of 2 service patterns is on the Q85 from Jamaica Center to either Rosedale or Green Acres Mall,to each terminal is every 20mins,10min service along the regular route before the split to Rosedale or the mall.
This is a great idea! The MTA should consider that. The Q21...an MTA bus route (could happen) and the Q57...excellent idea. However, I would go with the termination at Parsons/Archer because where are you going to put the Q57 at the terminal? You would have to move a route out. Just like what the DOB did in 12/11/88 when the Q17 was bounced. I think they even took spots away from N1, N2 and N3 because I think they were operating to the terminal at ALL times compared to today (LIMITED)! Can someone back me up on that OR even correct me, thanks!
well of course only one or the other can happen,or at least wish it would happen.either the Q57 is born or the Q21 gets a private to public bus company transformation.even though i like my own Q57 idea,id like to see the Q21 become an MTA bus route.its hidious the service,every hour and 20mins!? well of course as its current route,that seems appropiate.but it is by far the only bus route in the city,MTA or private that has THAT long a headway.as an MTA route it can run at 10min headways and maybe be based out of Jamaica Depot or Queens Village,heck even Casey Stengel is a good candidate for depots to used by the Q21.
A Jamaica to Rockaway Bus Line will not work for the following reasons:
1-It will take too long
2-It will duplicate already existing services
ie:Green Bus Routes Q-41 and transfer to the Green Route Q-21
or take the Q-41 and transfer to the subway at the Rockaway Blvd A Line Station. Heck of a lot faster too
or you can go from Jamaica to Far Rockaway via the Jamaica Bus Line
route Q-113
Thank You
Yesterday I was assigned this old dog for the entire day on the M31. I expected the bus to be be a real pig but was pleasantly surprised. The odometer, which appeared to be original, showed the mileage as 428,500 miles. Amazingly though the bus had a lot of pep and accelerated quite well. Steering, brakes and suspension were all pretty good. The A/C was cold and the interlock, wheel chair lift and kneeler all worked well. The dashboard lights and interior lights all worked. It even had an old style goose neck PA microphone (which I haven't seen in years)that still functioned! I have to tip my cap to Jamaica Depot Maintenance for doing such a good job in keeping a bus this old in such good shape.
With the exception of sporting 126th Street logos the bus was unchanged since it left Jamaica Depot. The Customer Information Center and Take One boxes were crammed with Q3, Q5 & Q85 schedules. A Queens bus map was still in place behind the driver's seat and the right side exterior still carried an ad for the Jamaica Multiplex Cinema. A list of Jamaica Depot destination codes was taped next to the destination sign control panel. Given a choice, I'll take #4349 over those crappy 7500 reman's (Except # 7540) anyday.
Now I know why 4349 wasn't sent to FP!
As I mentioned, 4349 is a very good bus. It wasn't always like that. Several years ago, it was a slow dog, but maintainence put alot of work into it and turned it completely around.
BIG AL
I remember riding 4349 on the Q17 a few months ago. Very fast bus and great A/C. I sure hope 126 St takes good care of this bus. What about the others(3824 4127-4130 4556)? How do they ride/look?
#4349 M57
You don't want to know.
BIG AL
Hey DHF60 what run you have on M31?? well i was doing Operation Planning this past monday morning on M31 & when i return to 126th Street Depot saw GMC #4349 on the maintenance area.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Jamaica Depot once again led the way in Mean Distance Between Failures in 2001. Bus 4349 came to JAM from Gun Hill in 1992(?), along with 4346-4356, and it was in horrid shape. Jamaica's maintenance somehow got those buses in running order and they did such a good job that the DOB decided to send them ex-KB's 4214-4218. Buses 4214 and 4215 are still alive and well (barely). However, 4216 was scrapped, 4217 is out of service and 4218 smokes badly.
Mark
4214, 4215 & 4217 were complete pieces of garbage from the day they arrived at Jamaica until the day I left Jamaica. 4216 was great and 4218 had decent pickup also. However, I wrote that bus up for smoke about a year ago. I see nothing's been done about it. I don't think Jamaica really put as much effort into maintaining the '85's like the way they did with the '86's.
BIG AL
FP got 4201 to 4213. Most were horrible. They didn't last long. FP is the kind of place where buses rot and decay.
I couldn't agree more. Let the 4600's/4700's rot.
-
Q55- RTS #8152
B54- RTS #9183
B26- RTS #5063
Q55- RTS #9168
I have an idea for a new bus route which will connect the Georgetown section of Brooklyn to the Junction
From Flatbush/Nostrand Avenue via Flatbush Ave,Avenue K,Ralph Ave,Ave L,Bergen Ave to Ave M
Return via Ave M,E.73rd St,Ave L,Ralph Ave,Ave K,Flatbush Ave,Ave I,Nostrand Ave,Flatbush Ave and stand.
The area between Ralph Ave and Bergen Ave has no local bus service in the area except on Ralph Ave or Veterans Ave which from Bergen Ave is some distance
A second new route can replace the Command Shuttle Bus in Bay Ridge between Shore Road/4th Avenue and the Brooklyn Army Terminal Ferry via Shore Rd,Bay Ridge Ave,Ridge Blvd,2nd Ave,58th Street, Ferry Terminal
BTW-I understand the Command Shuttle Bus was discontinued because of end of federal funding
Any comments
Thank You
what was with the command bus route? can I get some info. amount of service? route? equiptment used?
I dont think the COMMAND shuttle was discontinued, service was just reduced.
Peace,
Kevin
Kevin,
According to the NYC Department of Transportation web site as of late May the Shuttle Bus was to be discontinued because the federal funding was to end. The Ferry Service and the Shuttle Bus were started due to the 9/11 attacks which resulted in no subway service on the R line to lower Manhattan.
The federal government agreed to extend the funding for the ferry service until the end of the year.
I also read that the City was to give the route to a private operator.It is currently be run with Staten Island Ferry crew and equipment
Thank You
Of all buses, one probably couldn't imagine a Q74 bus packed to capacity, but for the past 2 days it's been exactly that. By the time the buses gets the 73rd Ave & Main St or Vleigh Place and Main St (QB Bound) the bus is packed which results in the bus driver leaving people (fuming mad) at the remaining 5 stops. Almost all of the extra riders are Q65A usuals (like myself). In the PM rush, the line stretched all the way down the block, just like it does on the Q46 at Union Tpke.
Does the TA plan on running the Q74 on weekends, or adding additional service to the Q88?
Tony
I doubt that the TA will run any extra service because the union will not stand for it. Even though the Queens Division drivers are ATU and not TWU there is an unwritten rule that one union will not do anything when another union is on strike especially if the same job is involved.
I recall in 1979 when the old Pioneer Bus Company went on strike and later went out of business and the residents of Mill Basin had no bus service at all then was a huge protest when the TA tried to extend the B-2 bus route into Mill Basin and there were pickets at Flatbush Depot and the police had to be brought in. In 1979 it was the ATU on strike and the TWU drivers who were working.
Thank You
I doubt the TA will offer extra service along any of the lines in Queens. The only "extra service" offered is cancelling limited stop service. In the case of the Q-46, cancelling limited stop service makes matters worse! Here's why:
The QM1 (and it's many variations) is a heavily travelled express line into Manhattan. As it is, the Q-46 is among the heaviest lines in Queens. Removing limited stops on the Q46 serves to pick-up those QS customers and take them to the subway, but it also loads the bus to capacity by 164th Street, leaving the regular Q46 passengers stranded without service.
In effect, the TA says to hell with their own customers to handle the customer load of QS.
During the first strike, which was not union sanctioned, but a wildcat strike that lasted for a few hours, the SLD asked me to make a few extra OT trips. I agreed only because it wasn't a union action. I made about 5 extra trips from 168th St to Kew Gardens, then deadheaded back to 168th Street for return trips to the subway. The object was to pick-up our Q46 passengers who were being stranded because all buses were coming down loaded.
I did not stop at QS bus stops.
The second time, which was union sanctioned, I refused to make any extra trips.
This strike, I have not made any extra trips at all, nor do I plan to, nor will I, regardless.
Why don't they operate short turn Q46s?
As standard service or additional service?
If you are referring to adding standard service, that won't happen. It is possible to add extra's, however everyone I've spoken to won't work them. I haven't heard about any plans to implement extra's at this point, but anything can happen.
As of 7am, the Q46 runs local service only.
As of 7:10am, the Q27 runs local service between Holly St and Main Street.
It'll probably be this way for the remainder of the strike, or until NYCT places a contingency plan (lol) into effect.
Hi,
Being that far down on Main Street, here is an alternative for you:
Take any bus that runs on Main Street towards the Long Island Expressway. At Main Street and the L.I.E., opposite the public library, hop on the X51 to Manhattan. You may even be treated to a ride on the Viking!
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Tuesday at 1600 hrs RTS # 5248 ( ENY ) was on a flatbed on its way to Detriot Diesel for warrenty work in NJ .
I mean Sightings , lol
Please excuse my complete ignorance of NYC roadways, but which bridge are you referring to?
Bronx-Whitestone Bridge is an educated guess.
-Hank
Does anyone know on how many Orios buses are now at Queens Village Depot & have most of the 3900 seriel left Queens Village Depot.
106-108, 122, 611-630 are Suburban Orions. 517-521 are on loan from CS-QV. As I said in an earlier post, if you see most of the 3900s are either getting shipped to KB/getting scrapped.
Do me a favor: stop asking so many questions on this board and contribute somehow.
Thank you.
Setting up for the Spike!
#611 Q46
I understand that Andrew Grahl has several Steve Zabel photos featuring New York City Transit Authority and MABSTOA buses. The bus pictures from Mr. Grahl's collection that really interest me are those of the 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model bus #3758 showing the B74 bus route, and MABSTOA 1965 GMC 5303 model bus #6534 on the BX28 bus route (which I had seen in the 1997 NY Metro Bus Calendar).
Therefore, how can I obtain an actual photo of either one of these GMC 5303 Fishbowl Buses from Andrew Grahl?
Come to the ERA meeting this Friday, he'll probably be there.
I have it on good authority (namely, Andrew Grahl) that Andrew Grahl will NOT be at the ERA meeting Friday night.
Andrew Grahl has been made aware of this thread. If he wants to respond to "Freebus2003" he will; if not, he won't, and nothing anyone can say or do will change that.
David
Ok, I want to know what is Officially is gonna happen with Jackie Gleason Depot on 9/8/02, Can Somebody explain the Official word on JG Depot? I want to know what buses will be goin there, everything. Thanks
The B8 route will be going to Gleason. The specific vehicles that will be going to Gleason (in order to have enough buses there to run the B8 in addition to the routes that are already in Gleason) have not been identified yet, and probably won't be until right before September 8. Usually the equipment moves are made over the weekend the pick begins.
Please, EVERYONE: stop asking this question. There is no more information than what I have just provided, and the information I have just provided has been said here over and over and over...and over...and...
David
Well I wanted to know the truth, instead of rumors. I'm usually on SubTalk, so I don't know anything that really goes on around on BusTalk.
Can anyone confirm if the X17 is getting more service on 9/9/02.
If so, how many more buses will be added for the peak periods.
Can anybody confirm why Busfan's asking so many questions? Here's the spike and it's good!
It's GO time!
#1979 X17
The MTA website is the place to go for bus route information. If you want rumors then BusTalk is the place. I'm sure that transit "insiders" visit this board but how can we tell real insiders from fake insiders??
MTA/NYCT Bus service notices (again!) -
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/bus/bussrvno.htm
MTA/NYCT Bus schedules -
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/bus/bussch.htm
Copy the above URLs (one at a time) into your browser, then press enter. It's that easy!
You've just been 'kill-filed'.
Boy's, I think we have another knome running loose on the board.
BIG AL
Hi guys I finally took the time to get my handle back.
Any how, I wanted to mention how sad it is to see certain companies really fall down the drain. Well, in my area there is a very small company Oak Tree Bus Service, that I hate to see go, after being in operation since 1948. As far as old coaches go this company had some beautiful ones, I can remember about 2 years ago taking a picture of one of their mid 70's GMC PD4905's, but unfortunately they sold those 2 off. They have 4 MC-9's too. All, I know is that they have some fairly old school buses that still do a couple runs here and there.
This company I think still has them, but they are rarely seen probably since because that fleet is not as modern. I highly doubt that most of you have never even heard of the company. I know this may be a boring topic, but I am sure some of you must have stories of these small companies who have served us very well for so long had to shut their doors.
Has anyone ever heard or saw any of their buses?
Jason D.
Where is Oak Tree located and what areas does it serve?
Its in Edison, NJ. Its a small charter service company, even though some odd years ago they had some shuttles here and there.
Small bus companies have more hurdles to jump than ever before. Competiton is intense and costs are skyrocketing. Add the latest legislation and insurance requirements to the rest and it's really difficult for small operators to survive.
In my area, we've lost many operators over the last 20-30 years. Bigger operators have eaten up smaller ones. In some cases, the little guy just couldn't make it and so they shut down service. A good example of this would be Walter's Transit. They used to provide commuter service between Brewster and NYC via Carmel, Mahopac, Shrub Oak and Yorktown. They were a small fleet with between 10 and 20 buses in service at any given time.
Walter's had a bunch of issues to deal with including:
* Fleet maintenance and salaried employees
* Rush hour demand only - no mid day riders or service forcing costs higher
* No local subsidies for service
* Competiton from the railroad
* Traffic conditions causing frequent lateness
I think the upgrade of rail service in the area around 1984 was the final blow.
Big companies have the financial resources to support fledgling operations like this one. And supporting them makes sense if these operations feed a busier line that is profitable. But Walter's was not a big company and they fed no other line directly.
When small companies begin to lose money, they must either turn it around (can't see how they could have,) sell it or shut it down.
Come to think of it- it mainly runs to Atlantic City. I see them near Metropark heading towards the Parkway. They seem to be based in the Oak Tree Road Shopping Center near Wood Ave and Oak Tree Road. Their facillity is a store front.
This reminds me of the creation of LI Bus because the bus companies were slowly falling like flies. I remember that Mid-Island Transit was the first to go under. Stage Coach took over their routes. Jerusalem Avenue Lines operated Harran Transit (charter service.) Mid-Island operated Crestwood Bus Service (school bus service).
Michael
Washington, DC
Effective July 1st, the fare for ST buses will be rolled back to $1.50 and the fare for seniors will drop to 50 cents. Kudos to NYS for finding the money to make up for cuts in the public transit budget.
How much was fare before?
$1.75
Peace,
ANDEE
Oy! That's still not too bad though. In some parts of DC, it was up to 2.20 in 1997; it has been 1.25 for about the past ten years here, and people even gripe about that. I shrug my shoulders at them...
Meanwhile in nearby Blacksburg, the fare is only 50 cents.
-Fred
F-you can still see Flexible Metro 30-foot running in Suffolk. I saw #9336 running on the S29 about 3 weeks ago-she looked good though.
Oh good! That's great news to hear. I'd like to go there someday and ride an ST Flxible....how long will they be in service?
-F.
I think the ST bus fare had gone up to $1.75.
According to the Transitworld.org roster, buses 4756 & 4759 are being held by NYPD.
Can anyone elaborate on this circumstance???
I wonder if one of them could be at NYPD Highway District #3 on the Grand Central and Francis Lewis. There is an RTS there in NYPD colors. Seems to have replaced GMC New Look TDH-5307A-0148 ex TCC# 743
Could someone who knows please tell me the sequence for the programming of the farebox on MTA buses and/or Privates.
I need this asap.
I know the bus number, and the destination code is entered, but what else and what is the sequence????
Such information can not be devulged on a public forum such as this. I wouldn't even E-mail it to anybody I didn't know personally. That information in the wrong hands could result in transfers being dispensed unlawfully, possibly causing an innocent bus operator to be blamed. Transit does have the ability to check the proper issuance of transfers from the farebox when the bus is "vaccumed" at pull in. I'm not saying you want to or would do something unscrupulous, but as a DOB transit supervisor, I would like to know why you need this information.
BIG AL
There has been a driver on the X24 for Atlantic Express who has been consistently late because he can't program his damn farebox, so he just sat and waited on Hylan Blvd doing nothing. A later bus had to stop and help him program his bus, delaying he line.
If I had him again, I would be able to help him.
But that's not YOUR problem, it's his & his boss's.
As Al said no one is going to put that kind of information on this board.
Why, one reason is that the activity (rider boardings) is collected electronically, it needs to be correct.
Every once in a while I get a call about one of our buses that is claiming to be a bus# not in our fleet (I run a report to discover them, but I don't always beat big brother).
I'm glad to see that our resident braintrust has posted the correct response to this message. I would not divulge this information on the boards for any reason, under any circumstances. Certain information is best left to those who require it, and are lawfully entitled to use it.
If your operator is having problems with programming his farebox, please advise him there is available a farebox "cheat sheet", which is a pocket-sized laminated manual. It's available from his depot management, his union and from the DOB division of Training.
Thanks to Big Al and Mr. T for placing the interest of everyone involved over showing "how much you know".
Bravo!
if the guy on that bus can`t progranm his farebox , he should be taken out of service and sent to the classroom for reinstruction!!!!!
also good job guys that information should never be given over public air ways !!!!!!
Eye for one have learned a lot of detail HERE, but there is a line we should not cross, even amoung friends.
Mr rt__:^)
>>> please advise him there is available a farebox "cheat sheet", which is a pocket-sized laminated manual. It's available from his depot management, his union and from the DOB division of Training. <<<
I agree with all those who said this type of information should not be published to the general public. But since every B/O and former B/O knows it, and it is written on a "cheat sheet" available to any B/O, it can be reasonably assumed that the information is common knowledge among those who wish to use the information for some improper purpose.
Tom
Atlantic Express is responsible for making sure ALL their operators are farebox trained. I'm quite sure this operator was also. As posted, this is not your problem. If this operator has no clue on how to program his farebox, he should have:
1) never pulled the bus out.
2) informed supervision he needs additional training on the farebox.
It sounds absolutely ridiculous that he is just sitting in the street doing absolutely nothing because of this problem. All he is doing is hurting the riders and his follower. I don't want to sound like a mean guy, but if I was his supervisor and I happened to come across him laying up for that reason, I would write him up.
BIG AL
He could also put the bus in service and give everyone a free ride, that is what most drivers do when the farebox has problems.
thats not the drivers decision, it is managements decision to let customers ride free when the farebox is not operative.
Otherwise management might be thinking the drivers say the fareboxes are out so that the drivers can be nickleing
Wow.
This job pays well over one million dollars to employees over the life of their career, plus health and pension benefits, and costshare/paid incentives.
Do you really think we need your spare change at the expense of losing the job?
Isn't that decision hurting the MTA financially? Don't they lose money with all those free rides the passengers get of what?
They're not losing money. Here's why:
1- Metrocard is the fare payment media of choice now. I'd venture to say that 80% of total customers use Metrocard. The fare is being collected up-front, with the additional fares on the card remaining unused until the next trip, allowing NYCT to reap the benefits of the interest on unused fares.
2- Removing a bus from service due to a farebox road call results in lost trips. The TA is funded, in part, by completed trips (on time performance and mean distance between failure). They will lose more money removing that bus from service than they woukd have allowing it to remain in service for a trip or two, while attempting to set-up a bus swap.
This is just a guess, but I would think that most bus passengers either transfer to another bus or a subway or use unlimited cards. In either case (unless, in the latter, the other bus also has a broken farebox), the TA doesn't lose anything by not collecting the fare on that one bus.
I've only encountered a broken farebox once, last week on the M23. Unfortunately(?), I was using an unlimited at the time, so it didn't save me anything. (Incidentally, the B/O announced not only basic bus connections but also where the connections ran and subway connections. Very nice.)
Thanks. I've often encountered broken fareboxes on the private lines (specifically QS). Does this mean QS mismanages their buses or what?
It will take some time for the maintainers at QSC to adjust to the new farebox that the TA has been using since 1995 (I believe). I don't know that they have the experience to quickly repair these fareboxes at the moment, but I'm sure Mr. T can elaborate.
Some drivers like to put the Farebox on Bypass, sometimes for good reason, sometimes not.
I didn't want to cause trouble by this thread. I was just wondering if I coukld help this guy. I understand that it isn't my problem, but that is the type of person I am - I like to help people.
I'm not a bus driver but I do believe that information is deemed classified. I'm sure you would not want that info to go into the WRONG hands! As I see BIG AL, Thurston, Brooklyn67 and Newflyer responded to this...I do not have to read their comments. I think that they are agreeing somewhat with me. B/O's I spoke with told me that they could lose there jobs just by giving info like that.
nobody got hurt just saw this on our local newz here .....
News this morning said one MTA bus was turning a corner, and rear ended by another MTA bus -- and the front bus was pushed into a private tour bus coming out of the street.
Leave it to LACMTA.....
For those of you who keep tabs on such things, this bus was involved in a collision this morning. I don't have the accident details, but from the looks of things, this bus will be out-of-service for quite some time.
Look for TMC #RTS 8357 to carry the training load for the duration.
*As an aside, the student operators appear to have the day off, because #4916 is OOS and #8357 is in service! Additionally, their instructor is at the accident scene.
As I posted a few weeks ago, the M20 is now running north of Chambers
on its pre-9/11 route. The other afternoon I was waiting for the bus
at Harrison/Hudson, when low and behold, the bus came up Hudson Street. I ran after it and caught it at Hudson/No. Moore. Luckily,
the driver opened up for me. When I told him the route was changed back three weeks ago, he said he was subbing and had no clue! Nice.
I figured, since there are new people here, and former busfans revisiting, it would be a good time to repost the quiz:
http://www.qvdepot.com/cgi-bin/quiz/quiztest.cgi?busquiz
If you've already taken it, no need to retake it again. Your results will not change.
I'm thinking of creating a new quiz. Maybe during the summer.
Good luck!
i am still in fourth place!!!! but who is kathleen?
I will be in Queens tomorrow morning from 7:30-11:00. I will post my observations on BT. I will look for the Q25, Q65 and Q110.....OOPS! LOL! I'm kidding. I'll will be looking for buses and what I see. I'll post the repowered, repainted (1999 Novas) and other changes. Maybe answer a few questions that some annoying people keep ASKING! See you all tomorrow!
hey make a pit stop at Flushing and let me know how the lines for the Q17,Q20A/B/44 and the Q27 look like.yesterday,the line for the 17 reached the 27 bus stop and the line for the 27 went all the way around for about a quarter of the block!i couldnt believe it!this is why im saying those striking idiots should end this crappy fiasco and get back to work.if they dont like the pay thier getting,quit the damn job and go work somewhere else that pays more and screw them.f***ing up thousands of riders who use their buses every day wont make you popular with the public.and of course a poster said a female worker yelled at a striking driver cause several of her co-workers got fired since they got to work late because of the strike equals all the more reason for them to stop thier stupidity and work otherwise find a place that pays more or play the lottery and hope you win the jackpot.me,i SO WISH i can grab a stick or a pipe and stick it up thier butts,they MOST DEFINATELY deserve it!
Thank you so much!!
Check out my post...."My day in Queens". It explains your Flushing area. You'll be surprised!
When is Maspeth Depot expected to open up? What Lines will be going there? And Is Maspeth going to be 100% CNG? Thanks
-AcelaExpress2005
The Maspeth facility will be both a Central Maintance facility and a bus depot. It is expected to open in 2005.
It is too early to know what lines will be assigned there.
Maspeth will not be a CNG depot but will be able to fuel CNG buses
because of the Maintance facility
Thank You
i won `t hold my breath on it opening in 2005. the original building is still standing there. (avis)
In the event that the TA takes over the routes of Queens Surfice,Triboro Coach and Jamaica Bus i would like to speculate what will happen.
I believe that the drivers,mechanics and dispatchers of all 3 companies will be placed in a seperate list for a new division of MABSTOA. The consolidation will be similar to one when Queens Transit and Steinway Transit were consolidated in the late 1980's when Queens Surfice Corp was formed.
I believe that the former Jamaica Bus Line routes will be placed in the Queens Division of the TA because of logistics.
That the Q-67 from Queens Surfice and the Triboro Q-38,Q-39 and QM-24 and 24W will be assigned to the Brooklyn Division's Fresh Pond Depot
That Queens Surfice QBX 1 will be split into 2 routes one from Queens to the Bronx which will be assigned to Casey Stengel and the Bronx route being assigned to Gun Hill Depot.
That the balance of the Queens Surfice and Triboro routes will be assigned to the new Queens Division of MABSTOA.
Since the Queens Surfice depot ia already city owned it will be transferred from the DOT to the TA and that the TA will purchase the Triboro garage. I believe that the city will not asquire the Jamaica Bus Depot but may lease it while the current Jamaica Depot is rebuilt.
I believe that current MABSTOA staff will be able to transfer to the new Queens Division and the new Queens Division staff will be able to transfer to the Manhattan/Bronx divison but they will lose all seniority similar to a Brooklyn Division driver wishes to transfer to a Staten Island or Queens depot and they have to start at the bottom
THIS IS SPECULATION ON MY PART.
Any comments or ideas
Thank You
What a nice comment. IMO, this is one of the best made statements about the strike here on NYCSubway. I made a statement earlier of how the MTA should absorb the private lines... You've described how I want the situation to end!
http://talk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=46450
{sigh}
Thank You
Wouldn't it make sense for the Q29,Q45 and QM12 to operate out of FP as well.
Steve,
The Q-29 and Q-45 terminate near the Triboro Coach Depot in Jackson Heights. The QM-12 which does not operate near any of the garages.
The reason they should remain where they are is that the drivers will have to drive something
The Q-38,Q-39 and QM24/24W are not any where near the Triboro Coach garage and the Q-67 is no way near the Queens Surfice depot.
If they are taken over by the MTA common sense dicates that they should be in Fresh Pond. But then again does the MTA have common sense
Thank You
I was actually talking about the southern terminal of the Q29(Myrtle & 80th) and is in the heart of FP territory and I have seen alot of QM12 deadheading down Myrtle /Union to start on the QM12 by 71/Union.I was out of line with the Q45 for that is a distance from FP.
Anyone else planning on attending this years roadeo?
Yesterday I saw Volvo Artic Bus #9110 in Newark sporting a new paint scheme. Naturally, I didn't have my camera! The three colors were in a horizontal line on the passenger side of the bus between the front and middle door. Although the bus whizzed by pretty quickly, the paint scheme looked very nice to me. Certainly, a lot more modest than the wild colors on 9258! The only thing I wondered about - an ad placed on the bus would probably cover most of the paint. Has anyone else seen this bus (or the new scheme on another NJ Transit bus)?
The bus with the wild colors is 9256.
Apparently, the plan from NJT is to have a different paint scheme for each new series of buses that are delivered: the 30-ft Novas have the 3 color ribbon underneath the windows, the MCI D4000/4500s have their distinctive design, and the Neoplan artics will have a completely different design from those buses and the existing Flxs and Nova 40-ft buses. Why NJT is doing this is beyond me, but I'm sure there's some sort of logic behind it...
The logic behind his paint scheme craze is.....
To Create A More Attractive Transportation Network in Jersey
There was a artic in the NY times a little while back, stating that NJT had hired a new design representative, he is responsible for NJT's new MCI D4000 and the Volvo Paint schemes. NJT will also start this campaign on rail equipment too!
Now the Baby Nova's are another story, the reason they got the paint scheme that they did is because the triple stripe would not fit properly over this bus. This scheme was applied to alleviate that problem and was also placed on the Baby Nova's before the new design guy was put on board.
Expect EVERY new procurement for NJT not to be a replica of the prior....
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.org
Supposedly Warrington canned the "designer" when he took over - Warsh was paying him almost $150K!!
Sheeze! Hire me; I can work cheaper than that!
-Fred
I liked the old C/S
Me too, but I look forward to seeing the new one. Any photos?
-Fred
Sounds like a great plan to me. Valley Metro has done something similar in Roanoke; while the Gilligs still wear their placid white paint schemes, the new Thomas SLFs for the Downtown Express are in a really nice deep blue with retro-40s grey, white, and yellow stripe designs. The idea: to make transit more attractive to downtown employees would would otherwise not give the bus a second thought.
You can see one of ours on the March/April cover of Bus Ride magazine.
-Fred
I believe this Orion VII has been housed at Jackie Gleason recently. Is it used in revenue service? If yes, is there any particular route on which it is usually used? Thanks.
I wonder if 7560 will be at the Bus Fest on Saturday?
Time will tell.
#7560 B61
Saw her at 231 St & Riverdale Ave on the BX1. She is still with QV logos. What has KB sent this piece of garbage on the BX1.
What's with 39xx's at Kingsbridge Depot? Please repond ASAP.
9114-BX10
3951-BX1
this route on route 9 to pabt has for the past two years been almost exclusively the home of cng buses 7001-7077. today i saw buses7457-7462 on the route. what goes on here?
The 7400s are 45-foot coaches that hold MANY more passengers. The CNGs seat 49 and only allow 4 standees. The 45-foot MCIs seat 55 and can stand 20 (despite what the number on the side says, that's about how many can physically fit in the aisle - D4000s pretty much max spacewise at 16 standees).
[this route on route 9 to pabt has for the past two years been almost exclusively the home of cng buses 7001-7077]
Technically, this is not true, as the CNG Cruisers can often be found on other routes out of the Howell garage, including the 67 to Hudson County. (As a result, some wind up on the 128 or 321 in the AM rush hour.) I don't think there's any plan to move the CNG Cruisers any place else. The 45-footers are merely replacing older 40 foot Cruisers at Howell.
true but except during rush hours only cng cruisers ran the 139. i saw 7400 series at 12 noon when there is definitely no need for higher capacity buses. these buses(7400s) though new were covered with black soot and pollution was definately visible and smellable. chalk one up to christie whitman for this 1400 bus purchase of stink mobiles. ill stay in si.
In case you've forgotten, we kinda have a water shortage going on here. NJT can't wash buses daily. That dirt is from all the other vehicles, not the MCIs themselves. I have not seen visible exhaust from ANY NJT bus starting with the 1994 Flxibles.
The other day, my mom, who is 68, bought a transfer ticket at $1.50 on the bus so she could transfer from the bus to the subway. When she tried to use the tranfer ticket at the turnstile in the subway station, it did not take it. Does anyone know why the bus transfer does not work in the subway turnstile?
Assuming this is in New York City, she didn't pay $1.50 for the transfer -- she paid $1.50 for the fare itself, which comes with a free transfer.
But the paper transfers issued for cash payments are not valid on the subway. They never have been. Only MetroCard payments are eligible for free transfers between buses and subways.
If your mother is 68, she's eligible for a reduced-fare ($0.75)MetroCard, BTW. And she'll get free transfers to the subway if she uses it, too.
But the token booth clerks should let people in if the transfer is within the 2 hours
We have no control over time- that is donmme by the "system". When you swipe your card at the turnstile the tiem and date and written and a fare is deducted (or a transfer is deducted.)
The Blue and white paper MetroCard is for bus to bus **only**
The single ride card issued by MVMs is for one subway or one bus ride only and is the same as a token-- no transfers. We have no say. The card simply wont work! the single ride card expires in two hours from purchase whether used or unused. If a customer wants a return trip they should pay with cash ar the subway and ask for a return trip ticket or use a RFM (Reduced Fare MetroCard).
I meant opening up the gate for those with a transfer, the MTA should do that, if the time on the transfer is under 2 hours, they should buzz you in(through the gate). I would allow this if I ran the MTA.
Paper transfers and not valid for transfer between the bus/subway and subway/bus, regardless of the time on the transfer itself. If you require an intermodal transfer, you must purchase Metrocard.
Gee, why Metrocard, the thing that messes up so you can get arrested in the Dyre stations, pleeeease.
Ha, ha! LOL! Seriously, though, Metrocard is very reliable, as more people continue to use in, in favor of other fare methods.
why are you people wasting your time even continuing this thread?
I known it seems redundant, but why does it matter? It's not harming anyone.
if your up to date with the times you get a metro card and then you have no worries about transfering from bus to train and vice a versa.
Excuse me? Before, I was referring how this thread has gone off the deep end. I know all about Metrocards.
IS the rule not getting through to you? BUS TO SUBWAY TRANSFERS ARE NOT ALLOWED WITH CASH PAYMENTS.
It's a good thing you don't run the MTA.
-Hank
If he ran the MTA it would be out of bankrupt in weeks. I like hay eveyone free rides everyday.
Robert
Everyone would not have a free ride, I was mainly talking about the alternatives to Metrocard, that's it. As for broken fareboxes, that is on a case by case basis.
YES I KNOW THE RULE AND WAS STATING MY OPINION. Yes it's good that I don't run the MTA, at least I won't have to deal with their problems as well and can easily oppose them (and those like Joseph Bruno who use money to fund HIS own projects)
Of course there should also be more subway to subway transfers but I will leave that for another time.
Just that one little thing would hurt the MTA?, please, their poor schedules, stopping buses in the snow for about 1 hour for no reason, leaving tons of people waiting in the snow to freeze 4-5 blocks away. The Metrocard system still has a lot of bugs to work out. The card is always messing up especially with the METROCARD transfers. This is usually not a problem unless you use a 1/2 fare student pass, which luckily I didn't have to deal with that often, although drivers with crappy attitudes doesn't help either.
Of course I know that it is hard to get a metrocard sometimes (subway booths closed, stores don't sell it,etc) Ask the people who ride the #5 at night, they know this better than anyone.
"Of course there should also be more subway to subway transfers "
There are plenty of subway transfers also in use. If there is a disruption in service and you have to walk a block or 2 for another train, That is what block tickets are for.
I might add that block tickets are issued ***only*** if there is no service at allk at a station. If there is one way service or service on a connecting line (such as Broadway Jct) then no block tickets.
The blocxk must be unplanned. If a planned total disruption occurs then we issue G.O. tickets which are good for that day only ont e shuttlke bus and at the stations on either end of the work. Let's say the N is out for track work (all tracks) between 59 and New Utrecht. G.O. tickets woiuld be issued at 59 and New Utrecht and on the bus. Lte's say you decide to walk to or take the bus to the F. Sorry- your G.O. ticket is not accepted on the regular bus to the F or on the F Line.
G.O. Tickets are only valid on shuttle buses and not regular bus service unless specified by the G.O. Poster (whichjis done between 238 and 241 on the 2.)
did you know that a bus slides ten times the as far as a car in snow . did you know that buses are one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road when it snows. ask those that have been on a bus involved in an accident in snow,. its not pleasant. i as a driver WILL NOT MOVE MY BUS IF I HAVE NO TRACTION. I START TO SLIDE I DON`T MOVE. I WILL WAIT FOR SUPERVISION OR FOR THE AREA TO BE SALTED. I WILL NOT RISK KILLING PEDESTRIANS ON SIDEWALKS IF MY BUS STARTS TO SLIDE. IF ITS SNOWING AND ITS BAD STAY HOME.
What about trucks?? They're bigger, more in numbers and are more of a threat....
They're not responsible for the lives of 40 other people in their control.
-Hank
Then what about tankers....they can crash into any bus and create a huge explosion; I'm thinking too ahead.
You're just not thinking. It's the difference between the driver looking behind him and seing forty people, and the driver looking behind him and seeing cargo.
-Hank
It was interesting to watch this thread evolve into something nobody could have expected, but since this topic is more interesting to me than the original question that was answered countless times in a variety of ways, I'll join this conversation at this point.
Let's understand a few facts:
1- The bus operator is responsible for safe operation of his/her vehicle. To read the safety schedule that management uses to grade preventable/non-preventable accidents, please see NYCTA Accident Rating Policy.
2- It is the license of the bus operator that is in jeopardy, along with any possible discipline he will be subject to due to a preventable accident. There are also additional New York State Bus Operator safety regulations goverened by the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law, Section 509 Article 19-A that subject a bus operator to certain license/maneuver/qualification actions.
3- It is the job of the bus operator to ensure SAFETY, SERVICE then SCHEDULE, in that order.
4- It is the job of the Command Center to "attempt" to keep service active, using cooersive language to try and intimidate a bus operator who calls-in a hazzardous condition. This is where the problem lies. However, the final say in safety matters regarding the movement of buses remains with the operator of said vehicle, regardless of the instructions from management (or supervision). In short, if I feel that moving my bus is unsafe, that's the end of that. Because Control "knows" this fact, they will do their best to "try" and keep you in service, but cannot hold any bus operator in contempt or as insubordinate for refusal under these circumstances.
5- If a bus operator does notify console that there is an unsafe condition, yet moves the bus anyway, and has an accident, the operator will be found 100% at-fault and be subject to disciplinary action which can and will result in suspension or loss-of-pay. This will also keep the operator from being promoted to the Surface Line Dispatcher position.
6- If the operator does not notify console, yet proceeds to have an accident, the above will hold true as well, with the only difference being the operator will see the boss who will ask, "If it was unsafe, why did you move the bus?"
So, now that we know the facts regarding the movement of buses during unsafe conditions, we can discuss the matter more intellgently.
Now you know the reason behind Newflyer and Tazz refusing to move their buses, and I'm sure, can agree with their actions.
I do.
thank you 67 :)
Just doing my job.
Notice, there are no replies to the post. It's difficult to debate statutory fact when you understand the reasoning behind the actions. The problem is, some busfans simply do not know anything about bus operations (or use this forum as if it were the "Straphangers Complaint Forum", which it is not). On the other hand, many of them (no, probably most of them) know more about a given bus particular than I ever will. But that doesn't mean there isn't anything left to learn about every other area of bus particulars, especially when you complain about things in which you do not understand.
I second that !!! I have a pic of a 5000 Rts in heavy snow that slid into the opposite curb with 6 Rts behind it and 4 in front . This was at Nostrand and Ave D on the B8 about 4 years ago. I still can remember the dispatcher writing us all up because we refused to move the line . It was at 3 pm and we got some 44 s to stop with us and ( i aint gonna lie ) mess up the whole area . All u saw was buses and people walking . We all got off the hook but we did freeze the line 4 about an hour and of course mess up the whole line as every operator did what they wanted to do . Sorry to the public , lol .
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did you know that a bus slides ten times the as far as a car in snow . did you know that buses are one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road when it snows. ask those that have been on a bus involved in an accident in snow,. its not pleasant. i as a driver WILL NOT MOVE MY BUS IF I HAVE NO TRACTION. I START TO SLIDE I DON`T MOVE. I WILL WAIT FOR SUPERVISION OR FOR THE AREA TO BE SALTED. I WILL NOT RISK KILLING PEDESTRIANS ON SIDEWALKS IF MY BUS STARTS TO SLIDE. IF ITS SNOWING AND ITS BAD STAY HOME.
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How can I stay home if I am going home, that is when the incident occurred. I was about to get off the bus and transfer, but saw the other bus sitting there with people on it. I was about to get on, when the driver mentions something about another vehicle (could have been a bus) was stuck ahead (or something silimar to that)
Anyway, turns out nothing was stuck blocking traffic, but everyone (outside) was walking. Of course, with one of my buses out of commission, I walk 4-6 blocks to another bus stop (which is packed with people) after waiting for 15-20 minutes, it becomes clear that this bus will not show up either, so it seems as though it is either walk home or stand outside and freeze with all these people waiting hopelessly for the bus.
This is the ONLY time I have ever seen a bus stop in the snow (other times that I have seen snow service, buses just run at delayed speed, LIMITEDs become locals etc.)
to bad thats your problem
That was more than just my problem, how about all those people stuck freezing at the bus stop. It is my problem, that is why I am mentioning it. Just like B/O's have their problems to deal with as well.
go to weather .com so if you know its going to snow stay home
If a customer with a MetroCard comes to my booth saying the card does not work , I ask toi check the car d. If I see there is a valiud transfer then I would buzz them in. Many times, the customer claims there is a transfer and the last used time was more than 2 hours prior to the attempted sunbway use.
No they shouldn't. There's a reason paper transfers only work on buses.
If you want a bus-to-subway transfer, pay with a MetroCard. That shouldn't be too hard to remember.
transfers issued on the bus dont work on subways.although i wish the TA would do the same thing Miami Dade Transit does.yes you can use the metrocard for all the transfers,bus-bus,bus-rail,rail-bus but they should have a ticket or something that will allow people to get into the subway if you just came from the bus and didnt use a metrocard.its a good and very smart idea.
you people just don`t get it. people will be standing outside the subway with used transfers complaining that it didn`t work. if the mta allows paper transfers from bus to train they would definitely lose millions of dollars . plus they would have to implement transfers at token booths for those wanting a transfer from train to bus.it can`t be one way. so that means everyone must wait on line for a paper transfer from a token booth or another venue. thats why , BUY A METRO CARD AND YOU`LL SEE THE FRUITS OF INTERMODAL AT ITS BEST.
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plus they would have to implement transfers at token booths for those wanting a transfer from train to bus
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The MTA did that already at 3 stations 161 Street Yankee Stadium, 3 Av 149 Street and Gun Hill Road to transfer to the Bx55 bus (the last two were generally due to the MTA's stupidity of thinking they could replace a train with a bus) Of course these stations were replaced by metrocard.
I agree! But, of course, in civilized places like Toronto, there are transfer machines in each subway station that dispense paper transfers. I haven't been up there in about 7 years, but prior to that, I used to visit there 3-4 times a year starting in 1980. I never saw anybody even THINKING of abusing the system and try to sell the transfers. Just like I never saw anybody walk through the OPEN fare control stations to beat the fare. Meanwhile, at Rockaway Parkway in Canarsie, they have triple barbed wire fences with razor ribbons, and they would probably employ hungry pit bulls to patrol there if they had their way!
Meanwhile, at Rockaway Parkway in Canarsie, they have triple barbed wire fences with razor ribbons, and they would probably employ hungry pit bulls to patrol there if they had their way!
lol , And people still hop through the # 42 bus entrance and exit
Now it is set up so that the gate is close until the B42 is ready to leave the terminal.
Once upon a time the bus would creep showly into the gate opening it slowly. And the gate would then close as the bus finished going thru.
When i drove that gate was broken or stuck about 50% of the time
I tell ya i used to stare at amazement from my operator seat as the people would just walk right in past me ( giving me the nod )and into the last car of the L train .
that still goes on . only when the cops are around the people don`t enter that way.
In other words, If you want to transfer from Bus to Train or Train to Bus, Buy and use a Metrocard.
>>> you people just don`t get it. people will be standing outside the subway with used transfers complaining that it didn`t work. if the mta allows paper transfers from bus to train they would definitely lose millions of dollars . plus they would have to implement transfers at token booths for those wanting a transfer from train to bus.it can`t be one way. so that means everyone must wait on line for a paper transfer from a token booth or another venue. thats why <<<
No, the real reason is that the TA does not have the will to implement such a program. There was a time when paper transfers between subway lines worked well and other cities such as San Francisco are able to make it work, so it could be done. The TA finds it easier to push everyone to more profitable MetroCards by not providing alternative transfers.
Tom
the other cities make it work because other cities dopn`t have the volume of customers like nyc. they implemented the metrocard program. unlimited ride metrocars. go to a station buy a card and stop telling us about other cities.nyc stands by itself head and shoulders above places like sanfrancisco and miami and whatever other cities mentioned
It wouldn't be difficult to allow bus transfers to be used on the subway, nor would it be difficult to give transfers with single ride tickets. In all cases, no interaction with the booth would be necessary and there wouldn't be long lines.
get a metro card!!!!!!!!you get all the transfers you want with an unlimited card, buy a fun pass you can ride all day and party on the transit system!!!!!!! for only 4 bucks
The problem is where those paper transfers will go once used.
-Hank
Most times on the floor near the turnstiles.
In order to transfer from a bus to subway or subway to bus, One has to use a metrocard.
Bus transfer tickets state on the back that it is not good for transfering to the subway. You're welcome to read it.
Clerks at token booths have no way of knowing if a bus transfer ticket has been used or not. But since the bus transfer ticket can not be used to enter the subway, clerks are not allowed to let people enter the system with them.
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Clerks at token booths have no way of knowing if a bus transfer ticket has been used or not
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True, but it seems unlikely that it can be used and still held.....
If the transfer ticket has been used, isn't it usually kept inside the farebox of the bus (unless it busts open somehow, which seems unlikely, which would generally have to be taken care of by the driver)
the used transfers go into a removable bin that the driver is responcible to empty. lots of drivers empty them at the terminal in a public garbage can. then they are available for anyone to grab and try and use.
Then I'm going to assume you're not among the upper class of operators who shove them into the overhead AC vents or under the 5 pull-up rear seats (RTS)?
:-)
no i find that just as bad as the guys that smoke and use the drivers area as an ash tray.i empty my transfers into a bag and put them into the garbage inside the depot.
"Bus transfer tickets state on the back that it is not good for transfering to the subway. You're welcome to read it."
See? That's where the problem is! People can't read!! And I believe it has nothing to do with illiteracy. It has to do with either laziness or the inability to read something that's not on the New York Times Bestseller List. In the past, I have mentioned on this board that normally intelligent, level-headed people turn into bumbling morons once they enter a transit property. That also includes the inability to read schedules or even the inability to read the "regular words" on schedules or transfers that describe fare options or restrictions.
Saw this bus the other day. Originally, it was an express bus but now it is used as a local. It, and 3809 are the only two I know of with the old New York City Transit Authority logo and gothic-style numbering. Fortunately, these two were not done over with the rest of the fleet. Any ideas why? Thanks.
I'm planning to ride a SI bus next week.
I got some questions about the S79:
1. How is the weekday schedule, good or crappy?
2. How long will it take to get from Bay Ridge to SI Mall?
3. What type of buses usually appear on it? I don't want to see the 4011 or 3920.
4. Will I see Yukon Depot?
BTW, where can I find a Staten Island bus map? What's the newest one that's out right now? It's the only city bus map I'm missing.
-
R32 R-Train
1:ive taken the S79 many times and the ride is well worth it,i find it enjoyable.the weekday scheduling is good enough although there are some times of the day where there will 3 or 4 S79 buses showing up at the mall from brooklyn before either the S44 or S59 show up.
2:bus trip is about an hour and 5 to 10mins.
3:RTS's are virtually non existent in SI.SI routes are just about ALL Orions.
4:yes you will see Yukon Depot before the bus enters the mall because thats where drivers are changed.also Yukon Depot is where the S79 comes out from as well as the S55/56 and S61 and of course the majority of the express routes.
if you want to find a SI bus map go straight to 370 Jay St where all the bus and subway schedules are,you'll find it there ALL the time.
Thank you :)
rts buses still operate on a regular basis out of yukon depot and 3920 was one of the best.
You will most likely see an Orion (Suburban or Local) on the S79 - but remember, you can also see a RTS (more likely 4893-4897, 8293-8315)
All of the TA's bus schedules are on the TA's web site. Why don't you check there and then come back if your questions aren't answered?
From the NJT press release outlining the June 22 schedule changes:
"Major schedule revisions will occur on the No. 62 Newark-Woodbridge-Perth Amboy route, especially between Newark, Newark International Airport and Elizabeth. Schedule changes and additional trips are designed to alleviate overcrowding, especially for Newark Airport employees and others traveling to and from the airport."
$1.10 fare on the #62 vs $6.80 on the Northeast Corridor train. And there's overcrowding on the 62. What a surprise.
NJT probably did not anticipate that so many people would still be left over trying to get from downtown Newark to the airport when the monorail was extended and the 302-Airport was iced. And judging from the fare you just posted, they didn't anticipate that people would opt to be more conservative with their money over a supposedly quick run to EWR.
The Newark Airport employees are suffering badly because the Airlink was a gem of a route. For only $5 more than a regular 1 or 2 zone bus pass you could get a airlink pass. To avoid going down Broad St. in Newark was worth the $4 base fare anyway.
When the 260 articulated buses arrive next year until completion in 2004, what bus routes are they planning to be assihned to in Manhattan, Bronx & either Brooklyn or Queens.
[When the 260 articulated buses arrive next year until completion in 2004, what bus routes are they planning to be assihned (sic) to in Manhattan, Bronx & either Brooklyn or Queens.]
They'll go wherever the Department of Buses decides to send them. (BTW, that decision hasn't been made yet.)
Not so fast bucko.......Here is the preliminary assignment of the new Artics (again, like most things in the TA is subject to change):
#5510-5539 (30) are slated for Kingsbridge as supplements to their existing Articulated Fleet (Good chance some RTS buses made be retired/displaced elsewhere by this). #5540-5620 (81) are slated for the premier of the all new 100th Street Garage for Lexington Avenue Service, other artics will come from Quill to 100th for service on the M86. #5621-5701 (81) are slated for 126th Street service on the M15, RTS buses will be retired/displaced elsewhere by this. #5702-5741 (40) are slated for Quill, this artic batch may very well start artic service on lines like the M14 (which has been in planning for artic conversion). #5742-5769 (28) are slated for Stengel service, line of operation is unknown, Q44 is a likely suspect BUT not definite. I have a memo with planned artic lines but have misplaced it, I do remember seeing the Q44 as one of the Queens lines for articulated conversion. Also you will notice that there is no allotment for Flatbush, YET! (As stated above, this is all subject to change between now and then)
Delivery is slated that last time I heard to begin around Septemeber.
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.org
I'd say that's EXTREMELY preliminary, considering that the buses are just now being ordered and delivery isn't expected for some time.
David
In other words, the artics will go wherever the Department of Buses ends up sending them. Yes, there IS an initial concept. However, we're talking about NYCT, where anything can (and usually does) happen.
When will construction begin on the third Staten Island depot & why is it being called a "Annex" instead of a depot.
1. After your death.
2. Simply to annoy you.
-Hank
ROTFLMFAO
It will open when service resumes on the North Shore SIR.
And when the Second Avenue subway is complete.
In the year 2525, and it will be used to store anti-gravity buses. It's being called an annex because it is an annex.
Now just a minute... Busfan says it will be a annex. You all say it will be an annex. What gives?? I don't follo.
"It's called an annex because it is an annex".
LMFAO with that one.
BIG AL
An annex is a building added on to a larger one or an auxiliary building situated near a main one. If this is what the new depot is used for once anti-gravity buses are in service, the SIR North Shore line is in service, and the 2nd Avenue subway is built.
The 3rd Staten Island depot will be built when the HBLR is extended over the Bayonne Bridge.
Whoa! Let's not mix things that will happen 'eventually' with things that actually have a chance of happening!
-Hank
ps-In case you don't know which is which, I actually think the HBLR thing will be a reality within 10 years, and there STILL won't be a third depot!
Metrocard transfers should be more than 2 hours, some routes can take up to 2 hours, a wheelchair person or some other kind of delay (on bus AND train) can cause someone to lose the transfer, this is not fair, they made the transfers worse.
What are you talking about? Transfers were NEVER all day. They always had a time cutoff.
-Hank
at one time transfers were broke down to am or pm. so you basically had 12 hours to use them. you people just don`t get what the mta wants. they want everyone using the metrocard. if you use the buses and trains all the time if you get an unlimited card you don`t worry about transfers. the only thing is you have to wait 18 minutes before you board the same bus line. btw if you put a paper transfer to the test you`ll see it actually has a time limit of about 2:20.
If you had a whole transfer you had until 6 am the next day to use it. These two hour transfers suck, rush, rush, rush, delay, see why people don't like being held up in traffic.
HuH??
I used to get transfers (pre-metrocard) with the cut off line. I've gotten transfers from Bus Operators that had LESS than two hours. When I asked him to adjust his cut line, he said I should pay the fare on the next bus and send in the transfer with a complaint to get my fare back.
Now that the COMPUTER is enforcing the transfer time limits there is more uniformity and less "nice" bus drivers.
The time should be 3+ hours, some bus routes can take up to 1 hour themselves Bx15, Bx36, Bx41, etc
So? The point of the transfer is to allow a continuous trip. Barring very unusual conditions, is two hours ever not sufficient for that?
people want to stop go shopping then expect to board a bus. like in bklyn on the b41. there are people that ride the b9 to kings plaza . they go into the mall, try to get out in under 2 hours so they can use their transfer on the 41 to go back. the transfer is for a continuous trip , that means get off the bus and get on the next bus. so if it takes 1 hour to get to your connecting ppoint you still ahve another hour. reall almost an hour and 20 minutes. transfers last 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Of course people try to do that, and to the extent the system allows it, that's fine. But the point of the transfer system is to allow continuous trips that aren't one-seat rides.
The transfer time limit is two hours and eighteen minutes, rounded up in five-minute chunks. But the TA only guarantees two hours; if the farebox clock on one of the buses isn't perfectly synchronized, you may pay a fare when you thought you'd get a transfer if you cut it too close. (This happened to me once when I entered the subway 2:10 or 2:15 -- definitely less than 2:18 -- after I boarded a bus. But I more than made up for that two weeks ago when I found a 7-day pass that had been used once in the morning and discarded by accident. Whoops!)
>>> people want to stop go shopping then expect to board a bus. <<<
Long Beach, California actually encourages stopping to shop during your bus journey. Their transfer policy allows boarding the same line that issued the transfer in the same direction within two hours of issuance. That way a commuter can stop on the way home to buy something and board the next bus without paying a second full fare.
Tom
The assumtion is you aren't going end to end and then transfering on a route like that. That is why they built the subway.
When i drove the B8 I had a couple of regulars ( about 7 )who would get on at 95th and ride the hour and 45 min to Brookdale and catch the B15 . I would give em the transfers as they were leaving my bus . This was after noticing that they were cutting it close by waiting another 10 minutes 4 the B 15 . My Dispatcher at 98th st when he found out a couple of us were doing it didnt mind as long as we did it discreatly .
That was pretty much the case with the old paper transfers. Alot of times the drivers would take the transfers without checking them.
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When I asked him to adjust his cut line, he said I should pay the fare on the next bus and send in the transfer with a complaint to get my fare back
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What did you do? I think you should have reported him
At least call TA to find out if the driver was right.
Saw Her Yesterday Going Do Broadway at Rocaway Av wonder wht the Problem
Saw Her Yesterday Going Down Broadway at Rocaway Av wonder what the Problem is Anybody know
Who says there's a problem? Buses go into the base shop for regularly scheduled overhauls all the time.
David
The problem was something may have been wrong with it!
BIG AL
Somebody has already mentioned this camera once in a previous post, saw it on the N4 the other day. It is on the corner of Merrick Road and Baisley Boulevard in St. Albans facing the Nassau bound direction. Does anyone know if this is a dummy camera? Thanks.
The camera at Merrick and Baisley appears to be a dummy. As someone on this board mentioned, you can tell a dummy by it pole. If it goes straight down into the sidewalk, then it's a dummy. If it ends in a wide base like that of a traffic signal, then it's the real deal.
Mark
Saw 412 supporting the Orange Destination Signs on the M104 yesterday. Today 428 is on the M104-glowing brightly and 522 was on the Q32-looked pretty dim. This was at 830am this morning.
428 is still on the M104-I just passed it on my way to the I-Net Cafe at Times Square.
#412 M104
#522 Q32
#412 with the orange signs is old news...saw it like two to three weeks ago on the Bx15 while I was getting the newspaper...
Sorry :-(
Carlton
Cleanairbus
NP it was new news to me so that was the reason for my post.
I'm gonna try and make the Fest tomorrow. I'll be wearing a NY Met Hat if I can get there. As of now looks good.
#1979 X1
Did anyone mention #247?????
What is the purpose of these Orange Signs?
Yep, got that one, too!
THose orange signs are for better visibility at night, as well as the daytime, since the 1993-1996 Orion Vs have horrible flip-dots...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Maybe old news to you, but don't shoot down someone else excitement. Good God :o(
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.org
Yeah...I know..that's why I said sorry at the end of the post AND in the subject heading...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Okay, first I dropped my mother off at Guy Brewer Blvd and Linden Blvd. No, X64 MCI’s! I could not find none, however…."Honk your horn to support us!" was the theme at the JAMAICA BUS LINES! I never saw a bus strike in person. Also, the drivers were going as far south as Baisley Blvd. Weird!
Here are some of my observations:
JAM: First, "Q5Merrick" you need to redo that list (QV has #9250-9264?) Um…no. But as you say, with the MTA DOB, anything can happen! I saw #9263 on the Q5 this morning and #9268 on the Q5 as well. Also, #5145 looked real good repainted (old news) and I did see that turning signal on Merrick and Baisley. I also saw a brand new traffic light at Baisley and 120th Av (Shows you how long I have been in that area.) Also, some other buses #9281, #9547, #8952, #8949, #4592, #9073, #4347, #5153, #5157, #5163. Oh btw…nice seniors center next to the Jamaica Depot! Now, the area looks better than before. Also, nice complex on Jamaica Av between 160th St and Parsons Blvd. A bunch of vans and Parsons Blvd has never looked empty!
QV: Well, buses #9255 and #9260 were on the Q75, #9255 on the Q79 later that morning. Bus #515 with QV logos on the Q43. Bus #612 repainted and shinning with no ads (naked) on the Q36 at the terminal. Also a variety of other buses like #4921, #4931, #4936, #8393, #3976, #3970, #9364, #8352, #8376 (Not repowered), #4336, #3957, #7032.
CS: Well, bus #267 still has the DDEC 6v-92TA engine. Sounds real good! I do miss the old engine on the Orion buses. Also, #556, #631, #680, #563, #453, #542.
Other buses were #4645, #8695, #86xx, #86xx, #9060 from ENY (sorry about those two 8600’s…I forgot the numbers.) Buses #712, #657, #5506 from the Green Bus Lines. #294, #183, #631, #208…"God Bless America" Destination sign, #160 and #175 from MTA LI Bus.
To "V Train M20 Bus" I went to Flushing and the lines were about average. Like about ten for each the Q17 and Q27. Q44 is always crowded and the Q20A/Q20B was getting crowded…both Jamaica bound.
That’s my contribution to BusTalk. Enjoy!
Thanks for the Nova update. The correction was made about a week ago, when I saw both 9262 and 9263 in Jamaica service. QV has 9250-9261.
Mark
NP,"Q5Merrick"! I'll continue to get the latest!
People just don't get it. The MTA wants your money up front, as much as you are willing to give them. They are gave you a new privilege of transfering to the subway from the bus. This is all to give people incentives to buy the metrocard and give them your money in advance. Just like an extra ride for 15.00 of your money in advance. It might be worth it to you, but to them it is even more worth it. They get millions in advance.
And they didn't get your money in advance with tokens?
There are some people out there who think TA doesn't sell or use tokens anymore. Chaim is probably one of thse people.
Of course they do sell them. But they don't encourage you to buy them, there is no incentive. They are not available from machines, no free rides on a 10 ride purchase. No transfer from bus to train, or train to bus.
Not if you only bought one or two tokens at a time, as many did.
The MetroCard discounts (10% bonus and unlimited cards) encourage advance purchases.
There really is a way to transfer from the bus to a train without the metrocard. In Brooklyn the B42 bus takes you into the L train station at Rockaway Pkwy. So in reality you get off the B6 or B82 or any other bus which connects to the B42 and use your paper transfer on the B42 and now you get into the subway without paying another fare.
So looks like there is a way, of course there is always the possiblity of a clerk letting someone in the gate with a paper transfer (could happen, especially if there was another threat of an MTA strike and someone wanted to screw the MTA).
>>> there is always the possiblity of a clerk letting someone in the gate with a paper transfer <<<
If you are going to use that as an example (since it requires the clerk to do something illegal), why not suggest keeping the paper transfer in your pocket and jumping the turnstile?
Tom
This way, the person going through the gate won't have to worry about the cops going after them (like Dyre Avenue riders after 8pm due to Metrocard and MVM problems)
NYCT policy is that bus/subway transfers are not permitted for passengers who pay by using a token or a single-ride MetroCard. Don't like it? Lobby MTA or the Governor to get the policy changed. Until such time as that happens, though, live with it or attempt to skirt the rules and suffer the consequences.
David
Does lobbying work? Governor George Pataki doesn't care enough, he and Joseph Bruno (maybe even Sheldon Silver as well) just like to cut the funding from programs including college financial aid programs and transit and use it for their "own projects". Even using September 11th as an excuse to further cut funding just to give some "needy families" a lot of money.
I've laid out the methods for getting a change in the fare policy made. Try them, don't try them...I really don't care. As for what was said in the post I'm responding to, the content was ideological and has nothing to do with the matter at hand, and I won't respond to it.
David
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Until such time as that happens, though, live with it or attempt to skirt the rules and suffer the consequences.
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You mean like how the wheelchair people (and even those who accompany then) get on the buses for free and the driver says nothing. That is the kind of stuff that I meant.
I fail to see how anyone on the bus can tell that a wheelchair customer isn't paying the fare. When I was in Customer Services, my office received envelopes containing the (half-) fare from wheelchair lift users all the time. The passenger is supposed to give the fare to someone to deposit, or as an alternate the Bus Operator is to give the customer a postage-paid envelope in which to mail in the fare.
Again: live within the rules (and try to get them changed if it's that much of an issue) or suffer the consequences if caught.
David
Additionally, companions to the disabled do not have to pay the fare.
-Hank
Okay, I know we all know that the 3000 series Neoplans (I actually rode Neo 3000 last Tuesday) are the 6v92TAs with the ZF transmission. But there are some, like 3203 that sound completely different with the gear shift styles. It's smooth instead of the lovable jerky gear switches. I think this actually results in faster acceleration, as the driver had to keep slowing down behind another Neo (these two buses were on the 23-do they really run like this all the time, or at least during the day weekdays?). So, are they still ZFs, or a different or altered transmission?
yep they run on every day on the 23.they all have a zf transmissions.The reason why the transmission sound the way they do is probady because of an depending on the time of the overhaul.i know that 3062 transmission sounds sound like a old neo 8700 series transmissiom but it still ZF.
Around 12 noon today an eastbound lane of Northern Blvd (rt25a) was closed between Manhasset Woods road and the Americana.
Traffic was backed up way past Great Neck. Good thing my bus was going in the opposite direction, however I saw that eastbound N20's and 21's were running a good 20 minutes late.
Why can't they do this work at night? I'm tellin ya the traffic situation on Northern Blvd is becoming a crisis if you ask me.
It's not only Northern Blvd-it's Long Island itself. LIB=Long Island Blows! No matter where you go-there's congestion and traffic-Slow-IE, NSP, SSP, Jericho, Northern Blvd, Hillside, Sunrise-it's everywhere.
I hate going to Nassau County especially on a Sunday-all I do is sit in traffic all the time and it's for absolutely NO REASON! It'll stop in the same places and then just start moving. The LIE-only road where you'll go from 70-0 in a matter of a half a mile.
I'd rather deal with the gridlock in Manhattan than deal with Long Island. No wonder why they named it Long Island-long lines of traffic everywhere.
#1979 X17
What is the best way for me to get to NJT Roadeo from Penn Station , New york Tomorrow?Where should I get off?
How long does it take?
Reagrds
DA74
You'll need to take the NJT Route 139, either straight to the garage or to the Shuttles provided by NJT, just ask the driver when you board, tell him you are going to the roadeo!
You will be boarding either a MCI 102-DWA3 CNG Cruiser or a D4501 Jersey II Cruiser. Enjoy The Ride, its nice!!!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.org
Its great to be back on here and see everyone again. I know I'm a month late, but hey, better late than never!
Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of ex Bladensburg and Western buses running around in Arlington lately. Saw Flx Metros 9345 and 9346 on the 2C and 1Z, respectively. Also have been seeing Orion V 9647-9650 floating around and spotted ex Montgomery Flx Metro 9387 coming out of Royal, ex Montgomery 9225 and a few of the other 9220's out of Four mile Run. Its strange to see them scattered around, but the new CNG's must be causing some of the manipulations.
Hey, welcome back, 1C. Good to see you again!
I was actually out in your neck of the woods earlier today -- took the 38B from Ballston to Farragut Sq., then the 80 from there to Brookland Sta., and thus had a chance to compare the Orion VIs and New Flyer C40LFs back-to-back. (Conclusion: the C40s have much nicer interiors but the ride is less comfortable.)
I think you're right that the CNG New Flyers are causing the shuffling of units as the Flxis are sent south. I had occasion to reflect today what good-looking buses the Flxi Metros are while looking at a 35-foot Metro-B, new paint scheme, with a cereal-box Orion V parked astern and ugly Orion VI in front. A classic design, really. Lets hope for many more years of service life from WMATA's fleet . . .
C
God, I hope so! I love the Flxes....they are my favorites there.
-Fred
Its great to see you back too!! I missed it here!! I've seen a couple of the New Flyers. I saw on on the H4 back in April and saw the nice bright orange sign. I need to get downtown to see if I can get a ride on one of those.
The 38B once in awhile throws on an Orion V, which isn't equipped with the next bus technologly. Not sure what happens if you go on the website and one of the buses isn't there.
Ballston is a great bus observation area, especially during rush hours.
I rode the N11 yesterday which is a Four Mile route, I got Metro-B 9234. It was a good ride when we weren't stuck in traffic on the Beltway but the A/C was not that good. I'll post the full report in a few minutes.
I was wondering what they were using for the N11. Thought maybe they'd use Southern Ave or Landover routes. Its strange seeing Virginia buses going into MD and vice versa. The new B11 looks to be an interesting route. Hopefully, its popular enough to run during non peak times also. It will probably take a little pressure off the 30's heading up and down Wisconsin Ave.
I read where the 5A to Dulles is having its fare structure changed to that of an express route, meaning $2 fares rather than $1.10. What I heard was that so many people were using it to go from the Herndon Monroe Lot to Rosslyn and DC in AM and the other way in PM, that it was deemed more of a commuter run than the reverse commuter route envisioned to bring people from the city to the airport for jobs. Oh well, a victim of its own success, I guess.
I was surprised the N11 was a Four Mile Run route. My trip, the 3:45, was the driver's first trip of the afternoon and he got stuck in traffic coming from the depot on US 1 (which is why I made the bus). I would have expected them to use Southern.
The 14A, B, C, and D all come from Montgomery and they are VA routes technically, although the schedule is blue.
Its strange that WMATA wouldn't arrange their schedule so that the beginning and ending run of the day would end at King Street which is only a few miles away from Four Mile Run instead of miles away going to Branch Ave. first. Seems like unnecessary deadheading. Even if there was a change in shifts either with the driver or the bus, it would seem easier to have it in VA, but I guess they know what they're doing. I'm only the passenger. I don't question TA's motives anymore!!
Yeah, the 14's do come out of Montgomery. Some of those buses were formerly VA buses as well. The B30 uses a few of the ex Smartmover buses, too, I believe.
The B30 uses 4393 and 4390 (at least that is what I have seen on it). The SmartMover buses were 4400-4412 and are now 4400 through about 4408 I believe. The ex-SmartMover buses are still at Montgomery and run on the J8 and J9.
The N11 driver said there was no reason for him to go to Branch Avenue, especially since fewer people are VA bound in the evening. When he got to King Street, there was another N11 driver waiting to start and my driver got off the bus to go on break, so it does seem rather strange. I think the VA bound PMs and the MD bound AMs are merely deadhead trips open to the public. Since the bus has to go back to the other terminal anyway on that route, why not let people ride the bus?
Yes, WMATA has been doing a musical buses sort of thing. In addition to Flxible Metros being shifted... I noticed that Montgomery has rec'd more 1998 Orion V's.
Wayne
Yeah, I think they have some of Bladensburg's Orion V's. I did see Orion V 4303, which I believe was a Royal Division bus running out of Western on one of the 30's yesterday.
I don't have much time now and tomorrow to read so can someon please tell me the time and place for NYC Busfest.
Thanks
It may be a little late now, but Busfest is being held today, Saturday June 22nd, 2002 from 10:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M. at Borough Hall in Brooklyn. It's just off of Court St.
HURRY!!!!!!!
Advantages:
Allows Subway to Bus transfers from anywhere (not limited to Bx55 and special circumstances)
10% of paid amount (over 15.00) added to your card for free
Don't have to carry change around
Don't have to worry about asking for change
WRITE ERRORS can give you free rides (provided the driver doesn't have a bad attitude)
Extra "1.50 paid" transfer errors can give you another transfer for free
Due to Metrocard being primary means of fare payment, when card slot breaks, people ride for free.
Unlimited card save you money (if you ride the equivalent of 3 or more fares in a day, or ride the equivalent of 2 fares a day and ride more than 5 days a week)
For students:
Metrocard pass can be used on bus AND subway unlike the old passes, which required you have two different paeese for the bus and train
Expires at 8:30pm instead of 7:00pm, extending the time limit by 90 minutes
Disadvantages:
Can hold up the bus if people don't know how to use it, or the card has WRITE ERRORS.
Many people forget how much is left on their card (mainly those who don't use it much)
Transfer time is supposedly even less than paper transfers
Transfers were limited to around 2 hours
Unable to take advantage of Off Peak fares (unless card has insufficient fare of 1.00 or less, then maybe)
Card can get damaged in a number of ways
rain, changing temperature and other factors do not help
token booth clerks can give you such a hard time when dealing with Metrocard problems
http://www.straphangers.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=001649
Unlimited (and other) Metrocards can get lost, stolen, damaged, etc.
In certain areas Metrocard usage and problems at some subway stations has gotten some people some visits from police.
For students:
Limits number of rides you have from unlimited to 3
If you have a 1/2 fare and take more than one bus, you may be subject to the "transfer problem and insert coins crap" which will bring some mean drivers who probably deserve some of those attackings (not that severe, but at least a confrontation) that occured in Queens.
Due to Metrocard being primary means of fare payment, when card slot breaks, people ride for free
Doesn't happen much.
Don't have to carry change around.
It is a good way to use and get rid of the golden dollars.
Metrocard pass can be used on bus AND subway unlike the old passes, which required you have two different paeese for the bus and train.
There is a 1/2 fare bus pass that some students use. Insert the card. Then the student has to put 75 cents in the farebox. This card is NOT good on the subway.
Extra "1.50 paid" transfer errors can give you another transfer for free
You might be able to get another transfer. But the next time you use the card, Both transfers would be used. You wouldn't be able to use a transfer now and the other one later.
Card can get damaged in a number of ways.
Like a computer card sometimes says "Do not fold, bend or spindle".
Unlimited (and other) Metrocards can get lost, stolen, damaged, etc.
Treat all metrocards like money. Very cafefully.
In certain areas Metrocard usage and problems at some subway stations has gotten some people some visits from police.
Be careful who you buy a metrocard from. Several years ago there were some people in the Bronx who (with stolen credit cards) buy $80 metrocards and resell them to customers for $40. After a few days, after the credit cards were reported stolen, The metrocards that were bought with those credit cards were suddendly "not working". When people mailed in the cards for a refund, Police came to see them. The first question asked was: "Where did you get this metrocard that was bought with a stolen credit card?"
Token booth clerks can give you such a hard time when dealing with Metrocard problems
Especially when you tell the clerk that the card was just used. And the booth computer says the card wasn't. Clerks will give you the benefit of a doubt. But don't go overboard. The clerk is not that dumb.
Unable to take advantage of Off Peak fares.
There is no off peak fares on TA buses and trains. During non rush hours and weekends the private buses charge $1.00 cash fare. However with a metrocard, it will always charge $1.50.
I think the private lines should just discontinue the off-peak fare. No use of it, whatsoever.
"... which will bring some mean drivers who probably deserve some of those attackings (not that severe, but at least a confrontation) that occured in Queens."
After an interesting post, you close with the above, qualifying you as a waste of time and not worthy of a reply.
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qualifying you as a waste of time and not worthy of a reply.
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If I am a waste of time, why did you bother to reply?
if you didn't notice the word SOME does NOT mean ALL.
For visitors:
The $4 one-day Fun Pass is great.
Easy to use.
Avoids token lines (intimidating to those who are unused to riding the system).
Bargain price encourages use of the system - most transit systems tend to overprice visitor passes or make them too difficult to use (see Boston).
Greatest boon to transit fans spending a day on the system.
Jim D.
In the Bronx, and whenever I ride the bee-line to work, someone always asks, "where do I place the Metrocard?" and the bus driver has to say that they dont allow metrocards on the bus at least 20 times. Will they ever give and, and go with Metrocards and unify the area, like the L.I. busses, the Queens Line do? I think they are missing out if they dont, I think it would be a good thing, that allow dollar bills which is already great.
At a minimum, Bee Line should allow use of stored-value Metrocards, if not the unlimited cards.
JD
Bee Line is not part of the MTA system, and is not supported by the city of New York. Unless Westchester County, which funds the system, asks the MTA to integrate them, arrange a revenue transfer agreement, and Westchester would have to buy new fareboxes.
-Hank
[Will they ever give and, and go with Metrocards and unify the area, like the L.I. busses, the Queens Line do?]
If and only if Westchester County DOT decides to join in. So far, the only non-MTA agency to participate is NYCDOT.
You are getting the whole report, the buses are towards the end.
Yesterdays's objectives:
Ride the CAF Cars on the Green Line
Test out my new digital camera
Got on the Red Line (Rohr 1037) and took it to Gallery Place. Went downstairs and photographed some trains as they went by. I also made one movie clip. After about 20 minutes, a train of 5000 Series cars came in towards Greenbelt, led by 5086. Here are my observations:
The new interior is nice, although the white walls reflect the flourescent lights way too much (same as on the R142/R142A). This is especially bad on the head ends of the "B" (odd) cars where there is a large empty space on the right side behind the cab. On the Bredas, they have an ad in this spot. On the CAFs, there isn't even an ad holder.
The interior LED on all the trains I rode just said GREEN
The exterior LEDs are very easy to read although I would suggest they make the front LED only show the line color. It is hard to see the green lines on the side and when these trains start running elsewhere, it will get worse.
There are small lights over each door that illuminate if the door is open (like on the R142)
There is a red light that flashes as the doors close (most of the time).
The doors opening and doors closing announcements have changed. I don't like them much.
The train has AC motors. While they sound somewhat similar to the R142A, it really as close as someone else here posted (I think it was Bill Newkirk).
There are no holders for the metal line color plates (nor are they used at all)
The train is much quieter than the older ones when it speeds up, slows down, and is cruising at slow speed, but at higher speeds, these cars are much louder. The ride is always smooth.
I took the train to West Hyattsville, where I changed sides and took Breda 2058 to Columbia Heights, so I could play around a bit with some of the camera's features. At Columbia Heights, I reboarded the same train I had before, except I was now in car 5023, which was now at the front (heading towards Branch Avenue). I took the train all the way to Southern Avenue. We passed through the downtown stations at about 3:15 and it was quite crowded from L'Enfant Plaza to Anacostia. All the Green Line trains I saw were 6 cars long.
At Southern Avenue, I got off and got a picture of the CAF train leaving together with a train of Bredas arriving in the other direction. I then waited for the next train, which was also CAF cars (I figured this out when I saw it at West Hyattsville). I continued to Branch Avenue. The head end on this train was 5018. On my travels, the highest numbered set I saw was 5096-5097 and the lowest was 5013, but with only two trains in service (from what I could tell), that only accounts for 12 of the cars. Metro has approximately 38 of the 192.
At Branch Avenue, I ran upstairs and got on the N11 bus to King Street. The bus was Flxible Metro-B 9234. The N11 and N13 run out of Four Mile Run Division in Crystal City. The bus stop is in a very poor location for anyone coming off the metro. It is in the middle of the "HOV Parking Spaces", which is to the right when you exit the station on the side with all the other buses. There are no signs and the only reason I found the stop without help was I saw the letters HOV on a sign on one of the lamps (after walking around all the bus bays and it was now about 3:46 and the bus was due to leave at 3:45). I ran over and luckily, the bus was just arriving. I was the only passenger, and I chatted with the driver as we drove along the Beltway. He told me that he could use the shoulder if need be although his strategy to get through the backups more easily was to use the left-most lane, even though the drivers are told stay in the right. He said as long as he wasn't going to be picking up passengers, there was no reason for him to be in the right lane not going anywhere. Despite our leaving Branch Avenue late, we arrived at King Street on time. The whole trip took just over 20 minutes. He told me that on the return to Branch Avenue, there would be about 15 people. The Maryland bound trip would also stop at the Oxon Hill Park and Ride, which is right of Exit 3 in Maryland (I think, don't hold me to this).
I reentered the Metro and heard a train come in. It was a Blue Line, I ran upstairs and got on the 2nd car as the doors were closing, 3012. At Braddock Road, I moved up to the first car, 3013. At National Airport, I got off and took two pictures of the new signs showing the "official name of the institution" that the station serves, which are monstrosities. I will post them as soon as I download them off the digital. You can clearly see the control tower in both pictures unless you are blind (in which case you wouldn't be able to see or be confused by the old signs saying National Airport). The next train was a Yellow Line train and I got on that. The lead this time was 4022. I took that to Gallery Place, where I went upstairs and caught Breda 3026 to go home. The last viechle I rode yesterday was Ride-On Orion I 925544A, on which I had to help direct the driver. It was her first time doing the route. From what she told me, she was VR and had just finished training. I saw someone else move into the seat that I had been sitting in when I got off, so I assume that person started to direct her. Ironically, I was wearing my WMATA employee shirt, but she didn't notice it until I pointed it out.
Pictures coming to www.orenstransitpage.com hopefully by the end of the weekend!
Thanks for the report on the N11. I've been meaning to try that but haven't had a chance yet -- now I at least know where to catch it at Branch Ave.
I've only been on a CAF car once (I don't ride the green line often) but I second your observation about the fluorescent glare of the white wall panels. Nevertheless I like the new gray-blue color scheme; it'll be interesting to see if Metro keeps the colors for its next railcar order (which won't be built by CAF) or tries something else. I really hope they don't go to the longtitudinal-bench format for the interiors a la NYC or Boston; genuinely comfortable seating has long been Metro's hallmark but with the worsening rider crunch and system expansion it may be inevitable.
C
The lighting issue on the CAF cars was really only bad on the A ends of the B cars. I only stood by the railfan window on all the trains. I think they just need to darken the walls just a tiny bit. I also question how long it will be before the seat backs and walls get marked up with dirt and stuff.
I was thinking about taking the J4 to get back (I don't like doubling back) although that will wait for another trip. I had the time to go back to Branch Avenue and I figured I would just go in a big circle. I went through Gallery Place 3 times yesterday!
The J4 looks to be an intersting route, too. I think that will be pretty popular, especially since its an express route. The J4 of today reminds me of the old J4 from the 70's, which esentially became the F6 as it used to run from Friendship Heights to Beltway Plaza in Greenbelt. The J2 used to also go out to Beltway Plaza before they terminated it at Silver Spring when that station opened. That portion was turned into the F4/F6 and the F4 was designed to go to New Carrollton when that station opened while the F6 ran to Greenbelt/NASA. There also used to be a J8 that ran from Wheaton to Beltway Plaza, but was turned into the C2 and ran from Montgomery Mall to Beltway Plaza in 1979 and later the C2/C4. WMATA had always wanted to eliminate the portion of the C2 between University Blvd. and Riggs Road-PG Plaza and just run it down University straight to the campus as it now does and was severly fought and won by the citizens that came out in droves to protest that change. The C4 was extended to PG Plaza from Langley Park when the Green Line opened up in 1993, so they basically got what they wanted.
I saw a J4 last week at Bethesda. Many seats were taken.
The B11 stop at Bethesda has moved to where the 42 Ride-On bus stops. A week ago, it was at the J2/3/4 stop. The B11 shares with the 42 at Medical Center. I wonder how the B11 is doing...
This was the most fun I've ever had in my entire life! (That's really sad, huh?) Actually, this was my very first Busfest. I'm 16, so hopefully this won't be my last. ;-)
Aside from the usual selection of vintage old buses, the following buses were present:
MCI #2175 (I think....)
Long Island Bus #390
Hybrid-Electric Orion #63??
New Flyer Artic #5508
RTS Mobile Command #41??
Long Island Bus #390 was brand new, and has never been used on any route yet. It was built in April 2002, and was registered with the MTA just last month. It even has a new bus smell. ^_^ The driver told me that the passenger information system that tells you what the next stop is operates by the rotation of the wheels.
The best part though, was that I was able to sit in the driver's seat of all of them. That's all I really wanted to do anyway. The artic driver was the nicest of them all. He showed me how the farebox works (although I knew what most of the buttons did anyway), and he answered any other questions I had about any other buttons. He even let me put the seatbelt on, close up with pole thingy next to the driver, and I even fooled around with the seat position and steering wheel position. There's a little knob near the front of the seat that lets air in and out, and it makes the seat go up and down. Then there's a bigger knob that reclines the back of the seat, and another knob that controls the tilt. It was soooooooo much fun. I had my dad take some pictures. The MCI had the nicest control panel, though. The MCI had an interesting seat arrangement. Some seats had a LOT more leg room than others, and the handicap access looks like a pain in the ass for the drivers and the passengers sitting there, but such is the law.
The old buses were a nice treat. Some of them had the most interesting seat arrangements. Some forward facing seats were right up against some sideways seats, and they had absolutely no room for your legs. It would be tight even for a cardboard cutout. Two of the buses had seats that arch around the back of the bus. And the rear doors were tiny back then!
Who else went? Did you all enjoy it too?
I'm sorry. The MCI was #2715. Although I could still be wrong.
No 2170
I was there also(from 10:30-11:30a).If any body saw me,I was the tall guy with black faded jeans,grey USA T-shirt ,white Mets cap and a Green Daypack.The MCI was 2170,the Orion VI was 6358,the NFID60HF was 5509 not 5508 and the command center bus # was 4149.For the 1st one I ever went to,I enjoyed it even though basically made me feel old,especially sitting in 7340.Made me think back 15-20yrs when I was in high school getting the 7100's on the B58 and Q44.Also on 8929 if I remember wasn't the interior green with the green/turquoise hi-back seats like the hi 4400/4500-4505 suburbans fishbowls originally .Was disappointed not too see 5227,4727 and 236 not there.Was really looking forward on going on a TA Grumman 870 for the 1st time in 18yrs.All and all I had agood time and wished I could have met some fellow BT memebers.
Q11-5512
R44-A Train
B38-3987
Q55-5066
Q11-5507
i was there. bought a new bus fest t shirt, a model rts to add to my collection and a bus keychain. many of the buses were also at the roadeo june 1st. 5227 and 236 were at the roadeo.
I was at the BusFest also from 1pm-4pm. I just got back. I was wearing a black and blue NY Met hat-gray and black shirt and gray shorts. I was able to meet up with Trevor, DaShawn, Mike and a few others. Was disappointed that 3758 5117 and 5227 weren't there.
Joe Saitta's 699 was there along with Flexible 61. Also there the JG Bus 2969, 303, 100, 8466, 7340, 9098, 6259, Artic 5509, MCI 2170, GMC 4149, LIB 390, and Orion 6 6358. All and all it was a great day but now I have a slight headache due to the extreme heat. It's sure hot out there. Take it easy all!
#6358 M1
#5509 Q46
I forgot to mention 8928.
#8928 M2
I was there too! I was with a Puma Hat with a Navy Blue T Shirt with "I KNOW MY GOALS" in the back and in the front with a APWU Logo and Light Beage Shorts
Sorry I couldn't make it as my wife, youngest son, then some church volunteer work kept me running around all day. The interior colors you saw in 8929 was exactly what it was when it ran in regular service. There were a few in that brown scheme, but not many. Perhaps some Staten Island reared BusTalker remembers how many were like that and the number range.
Wow we were there around the same time, but I didn't see you. Well if you saw me I was the short guy with the black bag. blue shirt and green pants.
Also to my suprise the command center bus is not not repowered, they told me it uses a 6V-92.
It was nice! I never knew that driver shows how to work the farebox,It would have been nice for me to know how to work the farebox. I did saw #5509 with the M42 and Q46 Headsign. I only got a pic of #5509 with the M42 headsign. idk why the D45S was not there,It would have been nice.
Also the driver from Long Island Bus and I ask some questions and he gave me answers. He said #390 is from Mitchal Field. RVC got 80 Buses and all of them are a few years old. The NEW CNG BUSES are going to Mitchal Field. And there's only 40 Diesel Orions running,all from Mitchal Field. And that what the driver told me. So it looks like the Diesel Orions are running out of time and RVC should have got a few of them and it looks like the 65x-66x Series Orion CNG's are gone or at Mitchal Field. BTW the farebox was working on #390. I would have just mess around with it. :)
Even if MTA L.I. Bus wanted to run the diesels out of Rockville Centre they couldn't. A while back, those dummies ripped all of the diesel fuel tanks out of the ground, so they could make that depot entirely CNG. L.I. Bus plans to have all the diesel Orions gone by 2003. With the new shipment of CNG's, I'll be surprised if they last that long. Oh, how I hate CNG!
I went myself, alongf with my two girls.... it was't as good as last year,at least to me.My girls had lots of fun,though.So i guess i did too. After wards we took a trip down to the world famous Coney I sland for the Mermaid Paraid.Man,there were so many people there that it looked like wall to wall carpeting!!!!!! It turned out to be way to hot to stand around, so we went home.... it was a good day after all....
With 2 girls, that sure sounded like fun. It's every guy's fantasy. ;)(No offense-just jokin!)
As far as the Fest was concerned, I was the one that asked the driver to place up a Q46 sign on the Artic. Got a pic of it too.
Coming soon to a transit site near you!
#5509 Q46
"Long Island Bus #390 was brand new, and has never been used on any route yet. It was built in April 2002, and was registered with the MTA just last month. It even has a new bus smell. ^_^ The driver told me that the passenger information system that tells you what the next stop is operates by the rotation of the wheels. "
Yeah I love that new bus smell. Savor it! Well that bus is part of the newest batch of Orion CNG to arrive at LI Bus.
Some of these are in service however, I rode 373 this morning on the N21. Compared to the earlier buses 288-359, the engine sounds different. It makes a growling sound when the A/C is running, and I think it sounds cool. They are pretty fast too.
Also that driver told me 20 of the diesel Orion V's have been gotten rid of, I'm assuming it is the upper 500s. Once the rest of the Orion CNG's arrive, it's lights out for the rest of the diesels (though they should keep some on standby).
Wonder if they'll end up in the Riverhead scrapyard along with the 5000 series fishbowls they had from the city.
Keep the diesels as spares or give to NYCTA
That might not be a bad idea......... for now.
This was my first time ever going to bus fest. And must say, this was one of the most enjoyable days ever, I will never forget this day.
MCI #2170 from UP at the show was the first time I've ever been in an MCI, my father took a picture of me and my 3 friends at the back.
This was the first time I ever got to see Command Center Bus #4149(I've seen pictures of it). Unlike the other 4100's, this one was very nice, I picked up a Staten Island Bus map from it.
Some of the classics were before my time, but it was still great seeing them. Bus like the 699, and 846? were very cool to see.
I even seen the people from Transit Transit News! So I'm going to be on TV in the July show! I'm very shy in front of the camera, but I managed to get through it. That girl doing the interviews was hot! I forced myself not to gaze directly at her!
If you seen a group of 4 guys, I was the one wearing a black sleeveless shirt, black shiny jeans, a black bandana, and sunglasses.
I was there from 11:30AM through 2:00PM
i got there very late today,like at 330 but still got a chance to look at everything.me was wearing a yankees batting jersey and an red anaheim angels cap even though i never put it on to much cause it was so hot.that libus #390 is ok,looks just like the others,wonder if libus will ever decide to have a change in appearence oh well.#2170 MCI looked real good.first time i ever been in one.i sat on the driver seat and one thing occured to me:where in blazes do they close the door? i didnt see the handle thats always used to close the front door,that was strange. orion6 #6358 was there and the driver was nice,we talked and all.too bad i didnt get a chance to ride back to upper manhattan with him,they wouldnt let me,darn.#5509 articulated wasnt all that bad.was just on one last week on the Bx12.but that command bus #4149 was simply the best.its amazing how they changed that bus from regular revenue service into a command center.awesome. well thats it here,hope to make next years busfest,and hopefully i'll go earlier than i did this time.
On MCI's, they don't have door handles, they just have a switch on the right side of the dashboard.
On the newer ones, they are on the left side of the driver.
The boy and I were there from about 12:30 to 2:00. Much to his delight, the drivers' seats were not fenced off this time, so he was able to 'drive' them. Other than Joe Saitta, I don't recall seeing anyone I knew. Subtalkers are more familiar to me than Bustalkers. I had on a New York Mets T-shirt (which I wear only if they won the previous game) and orange shorts. It might have been more crowded than usual due to the adjacent street fair.
I've become pretty used to the assortment of buses from previous Busfests and roadeos, but it's always nice to see GM Fishbowl 100 and the 1973 Flxible. I pretty much grew up on these buses, what with the 7000-series Flxibles being manufactured right when I started riding the buses daily to high school. Unfortunately, the 5500-series Blitz was missing. The 1972 Fishbowl with the marine blue seats is my all-time favorite model. They were a regular presence on FLU routes through much of the seventies.
The large plaza behind Borough Hall seems a much better place for the Fest than Schermerhorn Street by the museum.
Maybe it's me, but I was a little dissapointed, I thought that there would of been more of the vintage buses on display. I understand that there are 19 buses in the vintage fleet, but I counted 8 vintage buses plus the other newer buses on the other side
What do you think?
It's possible that since they were doing it in the park, they were restricted with the number of buses they could bring in. There may not have been enough room, especially with that street fair in the street.
I was fortunate enough, along with Thurston, BMTman,and HeyPaul to visit the Bus Roadeo at Floyd Bennet on 6/1. Saw many of the museum buses there so it didn't make sense for me to come in from Suffolk for the event.
From what I have read on the board it sounds like it was an all MTA fleet with the exception of Joe Saitta and LIB #390. Were any other oldies but goodies there? Usually TCC #621 and several buses from Double A Transport make an appearance. Was that the case this year?
One poster said that the park was a nicer setting than Schermerhorn Street between Court & Boerum. This may be true but remember that in past Bus Fests, there is an admission charge which allows acess to the museum which is right there. This year it was free.
If it is held in conjunction with a TMNY admission, I think many people won't want to walk the two or three blocks between venues.
The strike was the excuse for TCC 621 not being there. If there was no strike, I bet it would've been there.
#1979 X2
TCC 621 was not scheduled to be there. Only one bus was cancelled and it from from DOB. Don't recall the number off hand.
Peace,
ANDEE
When Guy R. Brewer purchased a building on the corner of 117th Avenue and New York Boulevard to house the United Democratic Club, he had no idea that the club would grow to be one of the strongest political headquarters in Queens county.
In 1982, to honor the late State Assemblyman, Mayor Ed Koch signed a bill sponsored by City Council Member Archie Spigner, renaming New York Boulevard "Guy R. Brewer Boulevard."
http://www.queenstribune.com/best2001/streetnames-best2001.htm
Great. Now who was Granville Payne (Pennsylvania Ave)?
-Hank
Thank you, that was going to be next question since that one of the main arteries in my neighborhood?
http://www.google.com
http://www.yahoo.com
http://www.askjeeves.com
BTW, I apologize for not thanking you for the Guy R. Brewer answer.......
Thank you!!!!
NP ;-)
I've tried that repeatedly. I usually get links to 'Major Payne'
-=Hank
I understand. We've enough of those right here...
I'm still looking for who Ralph was.
Or are they usable all day?
they have a limit,the time you see on top of the transfer is when it expires
The NJT roadeo was in my opinion a sucess. There was a huge turnout and the weather was nice. Everyone was having a good time whether they were eating playing games or taking pictures of the buses on display. This was my first roadeo as a spectator but not my last. Maybe I'll even enter next year.
T.Bernard Beverett
Yes, I enjoyed myself too. It was a very nice event. I didn't get their too early though, but it was very nice, they had the garage open and everything. I was not their to root on my friend who was representin Academy, but I did see him there.
Jason D.
I didn't get there too early myself but I also had walked through the garage which is huge compared to Fairview.
T.Beverett
While doing a Operation Plannings on Bx36 @ Kingsbridge Depot. I saw #3902, #3916, #3933, #3981, #4304 all the buses came from Queensvillie Depot & also TMC #4603 (stripped) & #4404 with fresh paint.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Explain this - why would they strip 4603 before 4404?
Unless there was something majorly irrepairable, I don't understand.
For those who were at Busfest and went on the MCI 2170, did anyone else notice the service advisory about the B49????
There was something wrong.
You mean the one that gives the S51 service advisory with a headline that says B49?
The Spanish one is correct.
Yeah
Only in the NYC MTA
there was a misprint of the s51 and b49 service changes taking place next week. apparently the b49 service notice was crosse up with the s51. i have seen the correct english version of the b49 service notice. someone in staten island would have to tell you if the correct notice for the s51 is posted on the buses out there.
Some body was metioning that that during tour of the buses they were giving.
I just posted some photos from Busfest 2002 today.
Busfest photos
Enjoy
-Larry
subway.com.ru
Nice shots.
It's too bad they always seem to park the buses so close together, though.
Jim D.
Darn. I wasn't in any of those pics. I guess you were there later in the afternoon than I was.
Great stuff. E Mail Dave so he can put them on the main page.
Wow...that Harran bus makes the RTS look ANCIENT! And did you notice the front ad on the Orion Hybrid?
-Hank
Not to nitpick but the pics you have labeled as 8928 are pic of 100
Thanks for the info, just took a look and saw what you were talking about.
The error has been fixed.
-Larry
subway.com.ru
I didn't see any faces there that I recognized, except LI bus 390. I was there from 10:30am to 11:30am, before things got brutally hot.
Alot of vintage buses there, though I was hoping they'd have the Flxible Metro there, they didn't. They did however have Joe Saitta's 699 there, and it was decorated with nice photos of buses from the past. If Joe frequents this group, I'm the guy who asked what type of engine it uses. :-)
Also boarded a familiar bus, the LI Bus CNG. Actually hung out at this one the most (go figure!). 390 is one of the newest Orion CNG's at LI Bus. The driver seemed familiar, we chatted for awhile but he said he was a dispatcher. Some NYCT B/O's were impressed with the driver's seat. The drivers seats in the Orion CNG's do seem pretty comfortable compared to NYCT buses, especially the RTS's.
And most drivers do think the N20/21 has the most traffic jams. The LI driver said this happens when there's a problem on the LIE, people use Northern Blvd as an alternative. (and true to form, going back today there was nothing but cars ahead from Bayside to Great Neck)
Also checked out the artic, I've been on these before, but that who accordian thing is just weird. An NYCT driver told me artics will be going on the Q44. They need 'em to, those buses are packed.
Also saw the MCI OTR coach, which does seem kinda cramped if you ask me. One person commented on the narrow doorway.
I did take a few pics of buses, and the driver area of LI 390, the MCI, and the MTA Orion Hybrid..
All in all it was a good Busfest, I just wish the Flx Metro was there and it wasn't so hot outside.
You got to admit,those fishbowls felt the way they used to feel on a day like yesterday;hot and uncomfortable(especially 100)
Today, I got to get a good ride on SEPTA. It started when I got off my NJT bus at 13th and Market, I crossed the street, and saw a New Flyer and a Neoplan. I let the Neoplan go, and waited for the Flyer when lo and behold, 6001 (the MCI Demo) showed up! What a time to be caught without my camera! I waited the extra 40 minutes to get a chance to ride this beaut all the way to King Of Prussia. Not to nitpick on this beautiful coach but the one thing I found that was wrong was the fact that it was TOO COLD inside, a product of the still new and working right AC. The ride to K of P was smooth and comfy. Let's hope that SEPTA does something right, and get a few of these buses for a route like the 124/125.
After lollygagging at the mall, I hopped on the 99 to Pottstown. This portion of the trip was slightly annoying because the bus (5141 a NABI) arrived about 15 minutes late, and during the trip we had a delay in Spring City, waiting for a freight train to go by (theres a RR crossing in Royersford).
When we arrived at the intersection of Armand Hammer Blvd and High St, my bladder started to give out (it does this almost hourly. I'm going to get this checked out), so I got off the bus in front of a gas station to releive myself. After that, I waited for the PUT bus.
PUT (or Pottstown Urban Transport) is one of two non-SEPTA operators of transit service using regular full-sized buses in the PA suburbs of Philly, (the other is Krapf's). I think is has a fleet of around 10 buses, all 35 foot RTS's, early to mid 90's vintage. I saw one Nova (57) on the Coventry Mall route. I got a map of the system, it has 5 routes and it covers the boro and some of the surrounding area quite well. It's peak requirement is around 6 buses, what a quaint little system. The buses are immaculate, not a speck of dirt, scratches, graffitti, or advertisements anywhere, except for some company info inside.
The fare on the system is 1.25. Dirt cheap considering that SEPTA bleeds is riders out of 2 bucks just to get on. Add the zones and the trip to Norristown will set you back 3 bucks. If you want to go on into Philly, count on another 1.70 (2 transfers and a zone fare) out of your pocket. Fortunately SEPTA and PUT honor each other transfers, so a trip from anywhere in Pottstown to Norristown and/or Philly won't bleed you dry.
Back on SEPTA, with 3480 on the 93 (I missed the Eldorado on the previous trip), with a semi-scenic trip on Ridge Pike back to Norristown. I sais semi-scenic because of two somewhat unsettling things. One is the inescapable sight of the Limerick Nuke plant towers. The other sight is the ever-increasing disappearing open space between Trappe and Pottstown. Everytime I travel around there, I see more housing developments going up. This suburban sprawl is so disheartning.
My final leg of the trip was on the R6 train. It was a "really pleasant trip" because of one of my favorite headache-inducing distraction on public transit--CRANKY BABIES. Their incessant whining and crying really made my day in transit. No wonder why I have cats, no children.
That ends my hot day of riding SEPTA.
Re: Pottstown Urban Transit
PUT owns 7 RTS buses; 51-55 are 1992 TMC models with 6V92TA engines, 57 and 58 are Novas with DDC 50 engines.
Peak requirements are actually less than what you noted. The North End and North Coventry lines are interlined, as are the Pottstown Center and Beech St lines. The High St line only requires 2 buses, giving you a total of 4 buses required during peak hours.
Here is PUT's web site:
http://www.atlpublish.com/pages/put_daylines.html
AFA 6001 is concerned, I took a couple pictures of that bus when it pulled into 30 St Station at around 8:00am en route to King of Prussia; NABI 5139 was right behind it. Guess which bus the passengers got on?
Only 7 buses? 4 for peak service? I wonder what the average number of buses SEPTA uses on its lines.
By the way, the 93 uses 3 buses on its route. That`s 75% of the entire PUT peak hour requirement.
What is (or was) the distinction between MaBSTOA and the rest of the TA bus system?
Does it still exist today?
Being a Brooklyn Boy born and raised, the first exposure to MaBSTOA was in the early '80s, I noticed some buses in Manhattan said Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Authority.
I thought it was strange thinking it was all New York City Transit Authority.
Can someone explain?
MaBSTOA was created as a non civil service agency to MTA NYCT when the Board of Transportation took over defunct bus companies in Manhattan (ie 5th Avenue, etc).
It is part of NYCT, however not subject to civil service law. MaBSTOA operators have the legal right to strike, unlike NYCTA operators who are goverened by the Tailor Law.
MaBSTOA was once similar to Queens Surface, Triboro Coach and the rest of the private lines.
There are more dfferences, and others here can detail them, and probably will. Those are just the basics, if I have my facts correct.
Someone told me that it was first named Manhattan and Bronx Surface Operating Transit Authority (MaBSOTA), and it was then changed to MaBSTOA. Is this true?
Page 20 of the 1961-62 New York City Transit Authority Annual Report refers to the new subsidiary as "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (MABSTOA)."
David
I thought so, I just did not want to argue with him, I'm trying to elicit some MaBSTOA collectibels......
Mabstoa was formed to take over the routes of the Fifth Avenue Coach Company and its subsidary Surface Transportation System in March 1962. This was done via the legal "condemnation" of the franchised routes in order to settle a very bitter 3 week old strike so that bus service would again operate in Manhattan.
If you look at another part of this site entitled "Local Bus companies of Manhattan, you'll get a more detailed explanation of what occured.
Is this in effect to this day?
MaBSTOA is still very much in existence and still operates all Bronx and most Manhattan bus service (besides what's operated by NYCDOT via New York Bus Service, etc.).
David
Hmm.
So are there particular depots in Manhattan that are MaBSTOA and those that are not?
Also, are B/O's mechanics etc. that work for MaBSTOA at an advantage or disadvantage over those who work for the TA, or do they have the same contract?
PS I thought that since the buses are no longer marked MaBSTOA that it no longer existed and got absorbed by the rest of the Dept of Buses.
126 Street is the only Manhattan depot that is TA, not MaBSTOA.
Years ago when MaBSTOA still existed to outsiders there were slight differences in some of the equipment. One thing is that when new buses were delivered those going to OA depots had higher fleet numbers. The GM TDH-5303, T6H-5305A had grey seats while the 5303 (OA did not have 5305A's) had green seats. OA buses had "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority" decals and TA buses had the "New York City Transit Authority" decals. The Flxible new looks from 1963/64 (I can never remember their model number) were TA buses and OA never had any of them.
Wayne
[One thing is that when new buses were delivered those going to OA depots had higher fleet numbers.]
This was not always true. The initial order was the opposite (3301-3555 to OA; 3601-3950 to TA). OA 4800-4900's came in when the TA was getting 6000's.
Generally, the time allowance from leaving FP depot to leaving 61St/Flushing is 7 minutes. This works out just fine around 1 AM when run 1 begins its workday but not for run 10! While I don't have a paddle report for this job, I am told it reports at 7:13 AM, leaves the depot at 7:23 AM and in that 7 minutes he has to fight traffic on Fresh Pond Road, leaving 61/Flushing by 7:30. It doesn't work! The bus fills up right away with transfering customers from the Q58. Every morning he leaves late! His follower is on his tail all the way down. While I am sure that the union has some say in the travel allowance, let's be a bit practical here! Various runs need more travel time so as to load and leave on time.........We have drivers making unnecessary trips and deadheads to and from the depot. Case in point: after his second trip, run 6 pulls the bus in, swings, then deadheads back to 64/Grand on the unreliable Q58 to relieve run 5. You guessed it, run 5 has to deadhead on the unreliable Q58 to the depot, swing, then pull a bus out for service! All of this happens in about an hours time! Why runs 5 and 6 can't swing with the bus they each get in their first half I quite frankly don't understand.
Brooklyn work rules, by the contract, do not allow swings with the bus (it's done on Staten Island, for example, but not in Brooklyn). I suppose a "side deal" can be made within the depot and/or Road Operations to allow the Bus Operators in question to swing with their buses if DOB management agrees that it would be beneficial.
As to the pullout time issue, throughout the system pullout and pullin times on a given route generally do not differentiate by time of day. If Department of Buses management finds B57 pullout (or pullin) time to be a problem, it should bring the matter to the schedulemakers' attention. A schedulemaker will ride some pullouts (or pullins as appropriate) during the time of day that's at issue and make a recommendation.
David
Hopefully the difference in work rules in Brooklyn and Staten Island can be ironed out with the new leadership. Why the old TWU leadership allowed this is beyond my comprehension. Various departmental rules make the TA working experience puzzling. RDO and job swaps are worked out at the depot level, but the RTO crew office refuses. In station dept you automatically get off for your birthday. Not in RTO. Even if you request off and the daily quota is full, you still get paid, but you have to come in. Stations have to cover booths just like RTO has to crew trains.
I tend to agree. I think standardizing contracts (at least within a given title or group of titles, if not agency-wide) would be less confusing and would be beneficial to both sides. That said, in order for it to be accomplished each side would have to give up some things, and for that reason I don't think it's going to happen, at least not all at once (maybe over a period of a few contracts).
David
Bill, Staten Island is represented by ATU (local 726), while Brooklyn is represented by TWU (local 100). Both have separate and different contracts. Both are subject to separate and different rules.
Staten Island also has a majority of express runs. Brooklyn does not. Express runs, where the BO keeps the bus, saves the TA money in paid vehicle time, via having the BO swing at the destination borough depot, rather than deadheading back to Staten island. This gives the TA at least one hour of unpaid vehicle time because the bus is already there, ready to leave for a return trip. There are many other factors involved, but you get the idea.
Dropbacks (where the Bus Operator keeps the bus during a swing) are counted as vehicle time. NYCT saves on fuel, wear-and-tear, and such, but not on vehicle hours when dropbacks are used.
David
A "dropback", as designated on a run schedule is NOT the same as a paid swing. If your run says "PI/MJQ", then this is NOT a dropback, or paid vehicle time. It is a (paid) meal.
This is why I have a problem with you, David. You CONTINuALLY change the context of messages in order to defend the position of management. Stick to the topic at-hand, and stop redesignating issues to suit your own agenda.
NOBODY mentioned a DROP BACK. We are discussing RUNNING TIME, RECOVERY TIME and now, Staten island bus operators who SWING WITH THEIR BUS.
A "dropback" in NYCT parlance, means swinging with the bus. It involves no pullin, to MJQ (Michael J. Quill, which would appear on the schedule as MQ) or otherwise. Admittedly, the parlance is not the same as it is at other agencies, but we ARE talking about NYCT here. In Staten Island, by the schedule, it's most often done at the St. George Ferry Terminal (offhand I can't think of any other places where it's done, but there might be some). I believe "hawk" (night bus) Operators in Manhattan and the Bronx also swing with their buses -- any OA personnel out there want to comment?
My agenda is to debunk opinions that are controverted by facts, opinions that are stated as facts but aren't, rumors that are unsubstantiated, etc. It is not to get into personal contests of wills with other posters. It is not to change the direction of threads (unless they get way off-topic and I get tired of clicking through post after post of drivel that has nothing to do with transportation, at which point I post a request that we get back to talking about trains or buses as appropriate). I hope to learn something by reading the postings on this board, and I hope to impart my knowledge to others by responding. I'm pretty sure that's "Brooklyn67"'s goal as well. The difference is that I'm coming from a management point of view, and he's coming from a labor/union activist point of view. There's bound to be some friction there.
That said: as for "defending" the position of management, I prefer to think of it as EXPLAINING the position of management. Sometimes I happen to disagree with the way things are done, but my posting has nothing to do with my opinion -- I'm just telling people the way things are and why, not whether I think they should be that way.
David
A "dropback" in NYCT parlance, means swinging with the bus.
However, a dropback is NOT a contractual swing. As a matter-of-fact, a "dropback" isn't even defined in the 1994 Contract between the NYCTA and the Amalgamated Transit Union. Why do you think that is?
As I'd stated, a "dropback" is a term defined by the NYCTA to afford an operator a meal period without benefit of run-off vehicle time.
Can you find "drop back" in the official rules and regulations of bus operators, because I cannot.
It involves no pullin, to MJQ (Michael J. Quill, which would appear on the schedule as MQ) or otherwise.
I used MJQ because I wasn't sure of the MaBSTOA designation. It was used as a point of reference.
I believe "hawk" (night bus) Operators in Manhattan and the Bronx also swing with their buses -- any OA personnel out there want to comment?
I believe all hawks "unofficially" swing with their buses, however, there is still built into the schedule, a designated official swing time and pull-in run-off time. The operator is paid vehicle time to run-off for a meal, whereas he is NOT paid vehicle time to run off from a dropback because there is NO RUN OFF!!
My agenda is to debunk opinions that are controverted by facts, opinions that are stated as facts but aren't, rumors that are unsubstantiated, etc. It is not to get into personal contests of wills with other posters. It is not to change the direction of threads (unless they get way off-topic and I get tired of clicking through post after post of drivel that has nothing to do with transportation, at which point I post a request that we get back to talking about trains or buses as appropriate). I hope to learn something by reading the postings on this board, and I hope to impart my knowledge to others by responding. I'm pretty sure that's "Brooklyn67"'s goal as well. The difference is that I'm coming from a management point of view, and he's coming from a labor/union activist point of view. There's bound to be some friction there.
Good point. I agree.
That said: as for "defending" the position of management, I prefer to think of it as EXPLAINING the position of management. Sometimes I happen to disagree with the way things are done, but my posting has nothing to do with my opinion -- I'm just telling people the way things are and why, not whether I think they should be that way.
However, sometimes, managements explanation isn't satisfactory because some in management do not understand the "on the road" facets of the job, therefore can quote text well, but not offer factual explanations as to why certain situations occur.
Which is my agenda, as an operator.
Yet I tend to agree with your post.
the only place i ever see drop back on a schedule is during a general order(shuttle work). here in bklyn we use to get to keep a bus on our swing. it depends on the dispatcher and what depot you are working in. before 9/11 it was very common to keep a bus out for your swing . since lots of things have changed. not as many dispatchers allow you to keep your bus for your swing. i know here in flatbush most dispatchers don`t let you keep your bus. their are still some that do allow you to keep your bus , but it doesn`t happen often.
Correct. Brooklyn doesn't have dropbacks, except for subway shuttles. By the way, the F and Q shuttles that start September 8 will be part of Picks and will not have dropbacks.
David
I'd love to pick a shuttle for the summer. Too bad we won't have them at QV for the pick. EVen if we did have authorization to use them as scheduled pieces, they were not up for the summer pick.
I loved that E/F/G Court Square/Queensbridge overtime piece.
Anyway, I knew YOU knew that only shuttles had dropbacks, but we weren't discussing subway shuttles. We were discussing regular route running time and recovery time.
Even so, there is no mention or definition of "dropback" in either the contract or the rulebook. Care to elaborate, or have I missed something?
I checked this morning when I got into the office.
The Queens (ATU1056) contract does not mention dropbacks, as "Brooklyn67" pointed out. Neither does the Staten Island (ATU726) contract. On Staten Island, it comes under the heading of "past practice" and apparently has gone on (for "hawks") for many, many years.
I was incorrect in stating that the Operator's swing time was counted as vehicle time on Staten Island. The dropbacks on the schedules all take place at St. George Terminal, and the Dispatcher on duty is considered to be in charge of the bus while the Bus Operator is taking his or her swing. In Queens (and Brooklyn (TWU100)), however, I'm told that the dropback (which only occurs on short-term shuttles) IS counted as vehicle time.
David
Thank you for the clarification and the ability to admit when you're incorrect. I respect that, especially coming from someone in mamagement.
I don't know that any shuttles in Queens have a paid swing. I believe they are all dropbacks. I can understand the reasoning behind using dropbacks rather than a pull-in/pull-out swing because the shuttle is usually far from the home depot, however I also believe this practice to be in violation of my contract. I'll investigate this further with my union and report any findings.
David,
You are correct MABSTOA hawk runs do not pull in for their swings. They get an extended break at the end of the line.
They are some Brooklyn lines that do keep their buses for both parts of their day. ie the B-42
Also between December 1970 and February 1972 when the B-6 had a Shuttle between Rockaway Parkway and Cozine Ave/Ashord Street the drivers will lay up their buses at Rockaway Parkway Station for their swing and this was part of their run.
B-6 shuttle drivers worked as follows:
From Bay 38th Street to Rockaway Parkway as a regular B-6 run
Shuttle service including swing until they returned to Bay 38th Street from Rockaway Parkway as a regular B-6
The B-42 schedule does not call for anyone to swing with the bus. All swings are via road relief or pullin and/or pullout. If anyone swings with the bus, it's because of an arrangement with supervision or management that is not part of the schedule.
Whatever happened on the B6 is ancient history. The relief point is the end of the line, Bay 37th Street & Harway Avenue, which is about a block from Ulmer Park Depot, the route's home.
David
David,
You are correct about the B-42
But this just shows how wasteful the TA is. The B-42 should be allowed to have their swings with the bus at Rockaway Parkway Station.
The bus is indeed secure and to have drivers pull out and pull in when they really do not just shows how drivers are getting paid and not working.
I am not anti-driver or anti-union they do an outstanding job but why pay someone for doing something when they are not really doing it.
When the B-17 was in Flatbush the drivers pulled in and pulled out for their swings and they did so. Why because the bus could not be left in an secured area
Thank You
If the B-42 ever had dropbacks (swings with the bus), that practice ended many years ago (probably before the route was transferred from Flatbush to East New York), and there may have been a reason that practice ended (what reason that might be, I don't know...I'm only speculating here). Instituting dropbacks, whether for the first time or not, would likely be a matter for negotiation. I'm not saying it isn't worth pursuing, only that it's not a matter of just going ahead and doing it.
The current B-42 schedules (weekday, Saturday, and Sunday) have road reliefs (swings without the bus) at Rockaway Parkway.
David
When i drove the B8 We always kept our buses . The Yard Disp used to order us too, except the bingo runs .
From what I heard FLA B/O there are similiar issues (running times) on the B49 and B78. Maybe itll change in Sept on the B78 when it tunrs into the B47.
The first stop of the B78 is about two avenues from the depot. What could be the problem?
The issues are with running times along the routes. (B49 and B78)
This bus has been a problem child for a long time. The area by the exhaust pipe is quite dirty because the bus is a heavy smoker. Has been that way for quite a long time. The 9 in the rear for the number is quit dark. Maybe that machine will finally get some TLC. It was on run 10 on the B26 last Tuesday and died at Jay/Fulton during its first trip of the day. Around 11:30 it was still there about to be towed.
well heavy smokers dont usually live that long.
Fresh Pond just let that happen. Why couldn't it be like 9153 or 9159? Oh well, the 9100's are still my favorite FP buses.
-
Q55- RTS #8152
B54- RTS #9183
R46 G-Train
R46 F-Train
B68- New Flyer #927
B75- New Flyer #845
B26- RTS #5063
Q55- RTS #9168
9159 seems to be ok by me now. For a while, it sounded like a motorcycle, a bit similar to the 9140 series, the ones with the 6 cylinder Cummings engines.
I rode that bus on the Q58 about 2 weeks ago and it was annoying-it was slow and very rattly. I did notice that the bus was very dirty looking and the engine cover was halfway out. Guess 9166 just gave up. However, it was not as annoying as 507 was. Every time I say 507 it gives me a headache.(ouch!)
ACTUALLY, I can now say that 507 made me sick. I've had the flu for almost 3 days now. I'm just getting over it now but don't expect me to ride 507 again! (I need some Asprin!)
#9166 Q58
In retrospect, as bad as FP maintance is, it is a good thing that those Orions were unable to operate out of that depot due to clearance problems in the bus wash.
Yeah, bring RTS #3920 from Yukon here so FP can torture it. Heh heh heh.
-
Q55- RTS #8157
What will happend to the buses that run for CTC(if they run),QS and JBL?Would they be split amongst the 3 remaining Queens privates,sent to the TA or a combination of both?
That would be speculation based on speculation. There's no point in even discussing it. If MTA takes over the private companies (and so far as I know it isn't being discussed officially), the disposition of the buses and/or facilities will be determined by those involved.
David
Ok,np;I wouldn't want to be the one to start any wild rumours.
The other day I was watching the local news when they did a short piece about an upcoming Los Angeles MTA bus rodeo which will be used to qualify for a national event. They had some footage of 40' NABIs maneuvering through cones, as B/Os practiced for the upcoming event. Then they did an on board interview with last year's winner, a 23 year veteran with the LAMTA, while he was going through the course. He carried on a relaxed conversation while swinging the steering wheel from side to side and backing into a lane of cones, and said it wasn't all that difficult if you lined the bus up correctly to begin with.
As I watched I realized that I recognized the B/O. He is the one I wrote this piece about in January. No wonder I was so impressed by him at that time.
Tom
David, if you'd care not to exhaust the resources at nycsubway.org, I'd be more than happy to continue discussing the issue with you in a personal forum.
Unlike yourself, my email address is open and available to all. Feel free, if the mood strikes you. I promise not to report you to your ISP... lol
To everyone else: Sometimes, my passion for the protection of fellow operators (along with my disgust with management) gets the better of me. I apologize for taking up so much space in this forum.
Thanks for the offer. I don't think I have anything more to say at this point, but I might at some future date.
David
Does anyone know where I can get {or if they even print} Long Island bus maps?
i think the only chance you got of getting one is if you call them or go to there facility in Garden City on Commercial Ave.
I raised this issue a few months ago as to why it wasn't on the web page. The answer I got from BT was that the MTA operates LI Bus under contract and that's why it's not on the MTA web page. I also wonder if LI Bus has a map that can be put on the web. I have an old LI Bus map which they mailed to me.
Michael
Washington, DC
If Amtrak is shutdown, will it effect service on SEPTA's RRD, especially the Pennsylvania side of the RRD west of Surburban Station.
Hi,
I, too, went to Bus Fest and I brought my digital camera with me. I took about 75 photos, many came out very nice. I'd like to post them but I am not sure how to send all these photos at once without waiting hours for them to upload. I emailed Dave the webmaster, perhaps he can use them on the site.
Jeff
am planning to go to Suffolk main h.q. in Happauge on Wednesday(if im off-not sure yet)-
if going from Walt whitman Mall, which bus can i get?
Can i get any pictures from this locations as well as timetables?
any help would be appreciated.
I believe Happauge is where the Suffolk County offices are. Assuming there is an office for the county government folks who run Suffolk Transit, you should find timetables. Buses are parked elsewhere in the lots of the various private companies that operate the routes for the governmental agency. If you still want to go to Happauge, I believe the S-54 is the route between Walt Whitman and the government offices.
You might want to wait until July 1st. According to the Suffolk Transit Web Site, the February 11, 2002, fare increase is being rolled back, effective July 1, 2002.
S54, S27, S33, S62, 3A, 3B, 3C and 3D (I believe). I think the S45 as well but definite about the S27, S33, S54 and S62!
What depot will operate the B47? This question must of been asked already, but I'm not on BusTalk often, so I'm sorry.
Flatbush.
David
when will this bus start operating on the road?
September 8, 2002, the system pick.
Never opened or unfolded. First email with snail mail address gets it.
Really....though what is snail mail??
Your Home Address.
darn...
This first come first served basis is pure crap. I believe that time, as a resource that cannot be controlled by man should be discouraged in favor of money, which can.
You could have a much better time selling it on eBay and making a few bux.
And yes, I'm bitter that I didn't get the 1979 map. I already have this one.
I'm also bitter, but let the guy give away the stuff as he chooses!
The same map (1985, BTW, not 1979) just went on eBay for $26 plus $4 shipping. ($4 shipping! From Brooklyn!)
I don't care much if I have the actual maps. I just want to see them. If the people who have these various and sundry maps would be so kind as to scan them and post them online somewhere (here, if Dave's interested in hosting them), that would be wonderful. Come to think of it, I think I'll do just that with mine, but I'll be looking for that round tuit for a while.
Technically, this would probably be a copyright violation. Would the TA care, as long as the maps are clearly marked as history rather than current service (so nobody gets confused waiting for the QB)? Should I submit a formal request or will such a request be automatically denied?
You can see a selection of maps listed here:
A Field Guide to Subway Guides
-Larry
subway.com.ru
P.S. If anyone has any maps that are not listed on this page, if you send me a scan of it, I will add it and give you credit.
But all you have are the front covers. I don't judge a map by its cover. Seriously, I'm interested in seeing exactly how service progressed from year to year -- it's the map and, perhaps even more importantly, the service guide that I want to see.
I don't think I have any maps that you don't except the 7/01 multilingual -- and the small post-9/11 printouts, but those don't have covers, so I assume you're just not including them.
You do have a nice collection there.
I am going to include the post 9/11 maps on another page. I also will have a page for "unofficial" subway maps.
As for the complete scan information on the maps, I have just started this page and it is a work in progress, but I have complete detail scans of the following maps:
1928 BMT map
1969 map
1972 map ver. 1
1972 map ver. 2
Since I'm only working on this in my spare time, you will have to check back and see when I have more maps scanned in.
-Larry
subway.com.ru
Excellent -- only problem is that your JavaScript seems to be nonstandard and isn't working in my browser (Opera). I don't see why JavaScript is necessary here, and some people turn it off for security or performance reasons (or use browsers that don't support it in the first place). Why not just use plain old HTML links for maximum compatibility?
In any case, I have 1978, 1979, 1980, and most of the stuff from 2001 and 2002. If I ever get around to scanning them, I'll send them your way.
Thanks David,
I was actually doing some work on my site last night to address that issue.
Let me know how the following page works in your browser.
1928 BMT Map
I have tested it to work so far in:
IE 5.5/6.02
Netscape 4.7/6.0
Mozillia 1.0
Opera 5.12
(all with Javascript on and off)
-Larry
Hmmm -- strange. It kind of works. I can't get the large images just by clicking, but if I right-click and ask to open the link, I can. Opera 6.04 build 1129 (external beta), JavaScript enabled. Thanks for the change, in any case.
(One incidental comment about that map: it looks like Culver trains terminate at West 8th; there's certainly no way to tell that they continue to Stillwell rather than Ocean Parkway.)
How do you scan entire maps? I have a pretty much standard flatbed scanner, not large enough for an entire map. If I scanned a map piecemeal, do you know of software that would glue the pieces together, adjusting for overlap and slight color and angle discrepancies?
I'll have to download Opera 6.04 and see how it works.
On the way that map is drawn it is hard to see what direction the Culver line turns near CI, but if you look at the
back of the map, it has a station list.
I had to scan this map in sections, then put them together in Photoshop. On the 1969 and 1972 maps, I used a digital camera, but will probably be doing them over in the scanner for better quality.
-Larry
Opera 6.04 is currently in beta. You can get 6.03 from the Opera web site or I can send you a link to the latest public beta. (I'm one build behind, last I checked.)
I don't even want to see the maps. I run a bus history site at boarshevik.com and I have plenty of info on Brooklyn, but I have JACK SQUAT (except for the 1988 renumbering) about Queens.
Right now I'm working on improving the B'klyn site in my spare time. It'll take a while.
I know there were bus history articles in a bus magazine. I forgot what the magazine was called, but I could not find any library that keeps archives of the magazine.
So if anybody can get a hold of the articles from whatever magazine it is and scan or photocopy the articles, I'm willing to pay for that.
There's not going to be any copyright violations. The maps were free to begin with. The T/A looses nothing by you posting them on the internet. If the maps were for sale by Transit, that would probably be a different matter. Just scan them onto the website so all the bitter cry babies here will be happy.
BIG AL
I may be wrong, but I don't believe a municipal agency can register for copyright or trademark protection. Can anyone detail?
If you have a problem with the way I extend my generousity, please feel free not to respond in the future.
Although you were not the first to reply, your email would have been deleted *unread* nonetheless, as it was when you emailed me regarding the above map, because *I* do not like your attitude.
Your above post is reason enough.
Good day!
Fine. But your generosity is a disservice to more people than it is a service, and you get no benefit from it.
I can see how you might dislike my attitude, but I don't see where I've ever insulted you or anything (except maybe in the ex-con thread).
This first come first served basis is pure crap. I believe that time, as a resource that cannot be controlled by man should be discouraged in favor of money, which can.
Money isn't everything, and too bad.
You could have a much better time selling it on eBay and making a few bux.
I could have, yes. I didn't. I don't need a "few bux" from participants of BusTalk. I wasn't looking for a "much better time" selling it on eBay, either. And it doesn't matter anyway, YOU would not have received it regardless.
And yes, I'm bitter that I didn't get the 1979 map.
Too bad.
I already have this one.
Who cares.
Fine.
And that should have been the end of it.
But your generosity is a disservice to more people than it is a service, and you get no benefit from it.
My generosity isn't any of your concern. You've already spent far too much time and energy qualifying my generosity. Stop wasting your time and Dave's bandwidth. Get a girlfriend.
Oh, and I did benefit from it- it went to someone other than yourself. That is gratifying in itself.
I believe the person who received the map would disagree
I can see how you might dislike my attitude,
I'm not the only one.
but I don't see where I've ever insulted you or anything (except maybe in the ex-con thread).
Must have something to do with your less than cheerful attitude.
Amen. You'd be surprised what this archive could go for on eBay.
However, if you truly are into the spirit of giving, I would suggest donating it to the MTA museum, assuming they don't already have 15 copies in back storage. That way, many others can enjoy it from all over the world.
If a monetary value can be found for this map, you could be able write it off on your taxes if their museum is declared a non-profit organization under 501(c)3.
One of my biggest pet peeves about riding the bus is buses leaving early. People read the schedules. People expect the bus to be on time. If it isn't on time, they expect it to be late. If a passenger gets to a stop on time, they will expect the bus to be on time or late by no more than a few minutes. They are not expecting the bus to be early, since in theory, the bus can not leave before it is scheduled to. When a bus is early, it can lead to quite a few problems.
1. On June 13, I was going to barely make the 38 Ride-On towards Wheaton at 10:20 from my stop, 10 minutes from the origin. At 10:18, I am one short block from the stop, the bus speeds by, I miss it and am about to wait 30 minutes for another bus until someone I know happens to come along and give me a lift.
2. Last night, I was coming home from work on the J2. Work is about 10 minutes from the terminal at Montgomery Mall and I only get off when I am no longer needed, since it is a volunteer job and the work goes until it is over. When I got off last night, I had about 10 minutes to run and catch the bus. I jogged/walked briskly to the stop and at 10:16, I was a block away and could see the bus in the stop. I cut through the mall parking lot and heard the bus brakes being released. He was leaving early! He didn't see me at first, but stopped to pick up another passenger who was not expecting the early departure. I ran between a parked 26 Ride-On and the J2 and managed to get on board. On a Saturday night at 10:30, there is absolutely no traffic. There is no reason I can see for a driver to leave early, except for his being able to go home earlier. We actually gained one minute between the Mall and where I got off, so we were 2 minutes early when I got off.
In short:
I would rather the bus be 5 minutes late than 5 minutes early. No one can get to a stop to meet a bus that leaves its terminal early, especially at the terminal. We can try to get to the stop early, just in case, but I don't believe we have any obligation to actually be at the stop early so the bus can leave early. Early buses cause us passengers to have to wait for the next one, which can be quite a long time in some cases.
Thank you for reading this :-)
Well in some schedules it is advised to be at the bus stop 5 minutes prior to scheduled arriving time, this is what the LI Bus schedule says.
So as long as it is advised to arrive 5 minutes before the bus comes, it allows for buses to run up to 5 minutes early.
In the NYCTA however, running early is considered a strict no-no.
To all u NYCTA riders , the B/O s love ( if they can ) to run 2 minutes up .
Sometimes it's not that the buses leave the terminal early. The bus leaves at it's proper time. It runs along its route and it makes time because no one is riding it. What a driver does with the time is their business. They just have to hope the surface dispatcher isn't passing by.
Another factor: Is your watch synchronized with the BO's watch. Even on a railroad, a watch can be up to one minute off from the "standard clock."
Michael
Washington,DC
Oren, you always post your problems, but you never post the response you received from the operator. Since you caught his bus, and were under the impression he left early, did you question his leaving early? Did you ask him the time he had on his watch? Did you say anything? Or did you just board the bus, give him a nasty look and look forward to posting the epic here on bustalk?
Is it possible he didn't leave early?
Is it possible your watch was not in synch with that of the TA?
Is it possible he did leave early and had permission? (Defective bus, bathroom, family emergency, etc. etc. etc.)
Is it possible he was told to leave early by supervision because his leader was missing so as to split the headway? (went sick broke down, accident, etc)
What do you know? What are the facts?
I gave the driver a stare, he stared back, and I went to take a seat near where I like to sit since my favorite seat was already taken. I did not talk to the driver since I was not in the mood to push my luck. He had let me get on after he pulled away from the stop. That is not allowed at the Metro Stations and probably not allowed at Montgomery Mall.
My watch is in sync with WTOP Radio plus or minus a few seconds. I assume since WMATA offers a public service, they can not be off by more than a few seconds from the potential sources where their passengers can obtain the time. My watch and the PIMS in the subway stations do agree.
I gave the driver a stare, he stared back, and I went to take a seat near where I like to sit since my favorite seat was already taken. I did not talk to the driver since I was not in the mood to push my luck. He had let me get on after he pulled away from the stop.
Exactly what I thought. Did you at least have the common decency to thank him for letting you on board as he violated his rules and possibly placed his job in jepoardy?
Or did you simply ignore that fact as well?
Because, I can tell you, he will remember you, and whether or not you were thankful of the courtesy. There's always a next time...
My watch is in sync with WTOP Radio plus or minus a few seconds. I assume since WMATA offers a public service, they can not be off by more than a few seconds from the potential sources where their passengers can obtain the time.
So then because of your assumptions, we do not know whether or not you had the correct time on your watch, according to the official bus time.
Your entire rant isn't worthy of discussion because you have NO FACTS to bring to the argument. Only assumptions and accusations. Do everyone a favor next time, obtain your facts before posting baseless accusations.
My watch and the PIMS in the subway stations do agree.
Odd. I didn't know subway cars ran on city streets. What time does the subway car usually pull-up to your bus stop?
Of course I thanked the driver. I always do whenever they let me on like that.
I am not assuming. WTOP is the biggest information source in the area. If WTOP did not have the correct time, it would be quite a mess. I know as a fact most people do not call the time number (I don't even know it for that matter). Since most people listen to the radio, that system works incredibly well. WMATA, since they are providing a public service on a schedule, can not be on their own time. They need to be in sync with the riding public. It is not the riding public's job to figure out the discrepency between our sources and WMATA.
PIMS is the Passenger Information Messaging System. It is in the subway stations. I assume that MetroRail and MetroBus are on the same time for obvious reasons.
So, rather than adjusting your watch to the bus farebox, or asking the driver the time on his watch, you set your watch to a local radio station and blame the driver for leaving early. Interesting.
Let's review:
Is it possible he didn't leave early?
Yes.
Is it possible your watch was not in synch with that of the TA?
Yes.
Is it possible he did leave early and had permission? (Defective bus, bathroom, family emergency, etc. etc. etc.)
Yes.
Is it possible he was told to leave early by supervision because his leader was missing so as to split the headway? (went sick broke down, accident, etc)
Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
What do you know?
I know the bus left the bus stop.
I know it wasn't at the time on my watch.
I know the driver let me on after he already left in violation of the rules.
I know I couldn't wait to tell everyone at BusTalk how horrible this driver was.
What are the facts?
A bus left a bus stop.
The driver allowed me to board after he left.
I thanked him.
I didn't question the time because my time is correct- from the radio station.
I posted this horrific act on BusTalk and have been textually thrashed by Brooklyn67 ever since.
I agree with Brooklyn 67 100% because we at NJT have to go by the clock in the depot office when it comes to miss times and pullouts. No matter what your watch , radio station , cell phone or any other timepieces says their clock is correct. 30 seconds can mean the difference in whether you get your work or not.
But is it unreasonable to assume that the depot clock and that the rest of the human race are on the same time plus or minus maybe 15 seconds at most?
Yes, I think it is. You expect an unnecessarily tight tolerance.
All right, maybe not 15 seconds, but the difference between myself and the bus was far to great in my opinion.
I will admit I hold high standards sometimes although I find this to be an occurance that is becoming more and more frequent. I could have posted each day I observed the bus leaving early but that would have been overkill.
How early is typical?
Here in NYC, I rarely encounter this issue as the buses I ride run frequently enough that there's no point in my checking the schedule (although I still wonder why, every time I ride the M5 when it's supposedly on 10-minute headways, I was 15 minutes for a bus that creeps down Riverside in slow motion -- was the previous bus over half a headway ahead of schedule?). But when I lived in Champaign-Urbana, the bus was always 10-15 minutes late except when I counted on it being a few minutes late, in which case it was on time. (My "bus stop" consisted of a sign on a sidewalk that wasn't kept clear of snow or ice in the winter on the side of a busy arterial, so I didn't want to wait there any longer than I had to.)
Typical is having the bus leave 2 minutes early and be almost 5 minutes ahead of schedule at the stop where I get off.
Where I live, unlike in NYC, we don't have buses coming every few minutes. Many routes run every 20-30 minutes throughout the day including during rush hours. Perhaps some people here don't understand when I say "the bus left early and I missed it because they left early", that means I am waiting about 30 minutes for another one, not 5 like in New York.
No, I realize that (I had to deal with the same in Champaign), and I agree that it can be a pain when a bus leaves early. But, generally, the transit agency sets its tolerances: How early (if at all) is a bus allowed to leave the terminal? Once it leaves the terminal, to what extent must it continue to stick to the schedule? How closely must clocks be synchronized, and what are they synchronized to? Find out the official answers to those questions from the agency. Then you can determine who's at fault -- the B/O (for not following the rules) or the agency (for setting the rules wrong, IYO).
Well NJT times are the times I go by ,when it comes to timepoints. If someone tries to tell me that I'm early because they had to run for the bus then I'll point to my clock and the conversation ends. Sometimes the bus clock malfunctions and then you go by your watch which is why you are instructed to set your watch to depot time.
T.Beverett
>>> we at NJT have to go by the clock in the depot office when it comes to miss times and pullouts <<<
Isn't any effort made to keep that clock on the standard time for the location? It is too easy to get standard times from the national atomic clock for any bus system to run on its own aberrant local time. Although riders could reasonably expect a bus to be a few minutes early at intermediate stops, leaving a terminal early should not happen.
Tom
I have seen bus drivers who adjust their speed so that they can meet the schedule. In both cases, this was not done or if it was, there was not much effort made in doing so. And I witnessed the bus leaving early and am well aware of where most people will get on or off where they won't.
At least on WMATA, drivers can be disciplined for being too much ahead of schedule. A Metrobus driver remarked to me, after pulling into the Friendship Heights terminus twelve minutes ahead of schedule on a placid Sunday afternoon with minimal traffic, that she was far enough off schedule to be suspended for three days. Granted, I doubt this is ever enforced, but you're quite right that -- good -- drivers will adjust their speed to make up the difference.
C
Twelve minutes is a little much or running ahead of schedule.
T.Beverett
The issue isn't if there is no traffic and you get ahead because of that. The issue is leaving early in the first place when there is no traffic (Old Georgetown Road on a Saturday night is not by any means the same thing as Old Georgetown Road during rush hour) and once you are ahead of schedule, do you make an effort to get back on schedule?
Arrive at the stop up to 5 minutes early because of traffic conditions, not early departures. Also, as I said before, that really only applies to stops after the first one since the bus should not be leaving the terminal 5 minutes early. Secondly, as I said before, the 5 minutes is more of an insurance measure, just because they say you should be there a few minutes early doesn't mean the bus is allowed to run a few minutes early.
I show up at any Bustop 5 Minutes Before The Timepoint In The Valley Metro Busbook or before the previous Timepoint. At Line Terminals I arrive when the Bus Arrives (Route 0 Arr Sunnyslope NB:0922 Dep SB:945) For Thru Lines at Terminal 10 Min Before Dept (Route 106 WB Sunnyslope 1323).
I set my watch to the Transit Radio (Most Buses Radios Can Be herd Thouout the whole bus) They call the current time and Call Letters (KXV824/825/829) Once an hour or when a All Bus Message Goes Out On the Air. some of the drivers set there watches when they check in with radio on the start of their runs. others are off + or - 5 min. and forget about the time on the digital fareboxes display most of them are fried by the sun.
Hey Guys
Im now an Officer on the Whitestone and if you guys want ill post the bus moves i see daily on my bridge .( I see about 6 plus buses a day). Today was a good day 4 me . At 4 pm onion (lol) # 646 ( run 50 / Q44 with about 45 passengers and a wheelchair lost power mid span on the bridge heading to the Bronx . The B/O coasted with no power 1/2 mile down off the bridge and down to our right shoulder in front of the toll booths . Naturally i was the officer who said I would handle it .The air pressure on the bus was down to 30 psi .I then had to stop 2 of his followers ( every bus is packed due to the QBX1 not running )The second bus i stopped Onion # 544( run 54 /Q44 ) also broke down 4 a sec with the wheelchair lift getting stuck half way .We had to carry the elderly wheelchair occupant off of 646 and onto 544 and i tell ya within 5 minutes of losing power 646 was a sauna. 544 left at 420 pm The 646 Orion bus ended up as a tow job and was on our property till about 5 30 pm .
Heading back to Queens the two buses i stopped were NOT IN SERVICE ( glad they got hooked up )> felt sorry 4 the follower though .
Those good old Orions, they are just dropping like flies in this weather. 646 stalled just like the L10G's do over here, one has to think the problem may be Orion, not the engine. CNG or not, Orions suck.
And 2 breakdowns one after another, yikes! Even LI Bus hasn't done that! The TA's Stengal depot used to be one of the best, but from my riding experience they are one of the worst, ever since they got those damn Orions.
Man I'm glad I wasn't there, the follower buses were stuffed and hot.
Give me a good reliable RTS anyday over some crappy Orion.
And tomorrow watch out, 90-95! Orions will start dying out one after another.
Let's see how the repowers hold up in this scenario.
Didnt the MTA and DOT take into account that this problem would happen with the Onions?? lol...love that name cause they make me cry too. Unfortunately I have not ridden a Queens Surface bus in the last week cause of the strike...have to find a different way to commute into Manhattan. But I absolutely hate those Onions...they DO suck.
The Orion company is based in upstate New York. Because of this, there is a lot of political pressure from King George Pataki to buy this New York made product.
At least a 1/2 fare (should be more like reduced fare instead of student passes, no transfer/driver problems with change), some other cities probably allow students 1/2 fare on their buses.
I remember going to Temple University and having a discounted monthly pass and a special reduced fair weekends only pass. I know the weekend pass was canceled not sure about the other one. It did come in handy in allowing students to explore the city and spend money in the city which is the biggest reason to give them discounts.
Right.
Who's to fund your college transportation? The taxpayers? Me? Are we funding your education? Why should we fund your transportation?
Why stop at college? Why not passes for shopping? For work? For first-dates? Because your car is stuck. Ah, geez... why not just have everyone ride free!
:o
Okay, I think we got our answer. Thanks "Brooklyn67"
Notice I did not say that the passes had to be full fare, they could also be reduced fare (preferably 1/2).
i think we should have our taxes raised to about 70% so we can fund transportation for everyone that uses public transportation.
LMAO!!
If anyone wants my opinion, I don't agree with it either. Hey, at least I'm putting it without sarcasm!
I'm for a little taxpayer money being spent to get more folks out of their cars.
For students, they would have to pay part of the way vs. free. Sounds like a good deal to me ... many other cities do it.
how about the spoiled little yuppie kids that come from rich families. should they get discount fares, or shall i say shoiuld their parents be taxed of all the money they make.
Hard call, I am only referring to those who use buses to get to and from school. Many of the rich people and their kids would be assumed to have cars, but that is not always the case.
Would a spoiled kid ever take a bus to school anyway? Most of the time they would usually prefer the car (there are exceptions to this of course).
Maybe I should have mentioned earlier that this would be NEED based, so that only needy kids apply (based on family income).
>>> Maybe I should have mentioned earlier that this would be NEED based, so that only needy kids apply (based on family income). <<<
If the discount is need based, why limit it to students? Why not working people who have been laid off of their jobs, or have minimum wage jobs?
Tom
just my point on an earier responce
And who gets most of the grants & scholarships ????
Columbis Univ. might be an example: Most of the students are from out of town and from well off families, few have cars so they use mass transit ... opps bad example, as they can WALK to class.
No, they get on my 1 train to go to midtown and get drunk and party their ass off..................
No offense to any Columbia student who may have a car and read this message board (scarcasm), but anyone who'd want to drive around Manhattan is in dire need of a trip to Bellevue. I would think that Columbia students would want to use the subway even if they were only going into Midtown to party the night away.
Even if Columbia and other colleges in Manhattan have their own shuttle system, it's not as though they can go from their campus to Shea Stadium, for example (though, with the inconsistency of the Mets this season, who would want to go to Shea?). In most cases, the shuttles connect with the subway system, so even a reduced fare MetroCard at a 20% discount (subsidized by the colleges and _not by the taxpayers_, mind you) might be a long term benefit.
In any case, as stated elsewhere in this thread, Cornell has a special transit pass program with Tompkins County Area Transit. Last time I checked, Cornell students probably pay just as much as Columbia students, and TCAT could hardly be compared size wise with even Westchester Bee-Line.
Amen. Why would anybody want to drive there anyway? If I lived in that area I would go exclusively by bus and sometimes rail. I love cars as much as the next guy, but how does one even keep moving in Manhattan's busy streets without getting gridlocked or creamed?
I think the better way to get people out of cars is to charge road tolls. Then people will realize (without transit subsidies) which is the more worthwhile mode of transit.
Well, that depends on where you live, in some places, bus headways are so poor, people have to drive, like in Westchester County and some parts of the Bronx.
Then they would realize the cost of living in such a wrong area.
like i said in an earlier thread , if that is the cas to get people out of their cars , let them raise our taxes and provide half fare to all that depend on public transportation. this way no one would be able too afford cars so there would be less cars on the road.
Who's to fund your college transportation? The taxpayers? Me? Are we funding your education? Why should we fund your
transportation?
The universities should be funding any reduced pass programs rather than the taxpayers themselves (although in some cases, ie. CUNY, SUNY, Rutgers, et al would end up footing the bill if publicly funded colleges were involved). I don't think the intent was to have the MTA directly subsidize a college student's transportation per se, but rather to have the MTA facilitate such a program with area universities - as long as they pay their fair share (no pun intended).
The University of Pennsylvania has had such an arrangement with SEPTA for the past couple of years (as noted in my previous message in this thread).
SEPTA did offer a College Weekend pass which allowed students at colleges in Philadelphia and the four suburban counties to ride SEPTA buses and trains for $1.00 per ride as opposed to the $1.60 base fare at the time. This was around 1998, but the promotion was discontinued after one year.
SEPTA does offer a discounted pass for students at the University of Pennsylvania - the PennPass - which is valid for the entire Penn academic semester. That's the only college pass program at SEPTA that I'm aware of. I'm surprised that a similar program isn't offered at other major colleges in the area (Drexel, Temple, Villanova, West Chester, Cheyney, etc), however I suspect that Penn subsidizes the PennPass program. If other colleges were willing to foot some of the bill for transit passes, then other schools would have similar programs.
Students are already paying tuition. It makes more sense to pay for things directly than to have them go through various levels of bureaucracy where they get "lost."
I can understand the whole pre-tax thing involving transitchek, but colleges aren't paying people.
If a person has a need-based financial aid package, but needs to commute to go to classes, then such a pass would be worthwhile.
No. Absolutely not. As Brooklyn67 says, when should we stop subsidizing people?
-Hank
What are your thoughts on Senior Citizen and Disabled discounts then?
See previous post.
-Hank
I personally believe the senior citizen discount should be abandoned. A person doesn't deserve a discount just because they have more "Frequent Orbital Miles" than other people.
The point of free passes for elementary and high school students is to take the place of yellow school buses, which would be more costly to provide. Notice that the passes are only valid on school days, not for general transportation at other times.
College students are responsible for their own transportation. Some colleges outside NYC impose transportation fees and give free or discounted public transportation to their students -- in effect, the students are required to buy unlimited passes (which may not be available to the general public). In NYC, colleges are welcome to negotiate with NYCT to try to get a discount on the $63 30-day pass for their students. I don't know if any colleges have made this attempt or how willing NYCT is to negotiate.
It costs something to provide transportation. If the person obtaining the transportation isn't paying for it, who is?
"In NYC, colleges are welcome to negotiate with NYCT to try to get a discount on the $63 30-day pass for their students. I don't know if any colleges have made this attempt or how willing NYCT is to negotiate."
AFAIK, none have, and are about to either. The situation is this:
Fordam University has its own van-shuttle, linking it's Manhattan with its Rose Hill (Bronx) campus. The same thing goes for St. John's University, with it's Queens and Staten Island campuses.
New York University, as was mentioned in this thread, contracts out it's expansive bus service, linking it's Greenwich Village campus with the various hospitals and dormitories in Midtown and Lower Manhattan.
Hofstra has it's own shuttle, linking its campus up with the LIRR Hempstead branch (in lieu of the LI bus that also stops on the Tpke dividing the campus).
Columbia University contracts with Coach USA for the shuttle bus that links its Morningside campus with Presbyterian Hospital and Harlem Hospital.
Most other private schools in NYC are either at or near some form of transit, particularly St. Francis College, Manhattan College, Polytech, Marymount Manhattan, and Yeshiva.
Which leaves the CUNY schools. Many, like Hostos, Brooklyn, York, LaGuardia, BMCC, and Hunter have either a subway line, rail, or major bus transit at their gates or within walking distance. Others, like Kingsborough, Queens, CSI, and BCC rely mainly on buses to get its students to and from campus.
None, and espcecially CUNY and the big-name privates, are about to consider talks with the MTA for discounted passes (like NJT does) for free high-school style passes. With CUNY, it's definitely money, Albany bureaucracy, and it's own revamping plans that are the culprits. With the private schools, it's more of a matter of more students living on campus or having the means to get there easily (read: car), since they are in control of their own destiny and charge students a bundle.
>>> The point of free passes for elementary and high school students is to take the place of yellow school buses, which would be more costly to provide. <<<
Another consideration is that there is a law requiring students to attend school until a certain age. There is no such law for attending college, therefore no corresponding responsibility to provide transportation.
Tom
[At least a 1/2 fare (should be more like reduced fare instead of student passes, no transfer/driver problems with change), some other cities probably allow students 1/2 fare on their buses.]
Ah, but who would pay the other half?
With the school passes, whatever the student doesn't pay is supposed to be paid by the State, the City (Board of Education), and Transit in equal proportions. BOE, which is legally responsible for pupil transportation, is effectively contracting out to Transit instead of a school bus company. (In practice, Rudy Giuliani never allowed the BOE to pay its portion of the fares, in keeping with his long-standing "if I pay for any part of it, I should control all of it" theory.)
TheGreatOne2k2 said: "At least a 1/2 fare (should be more like reduced fare instead of student passes, no transfer/driver problems with change), some other cities probably allow students 1/2 fare on their buses."
Gotham Bus Co. replied: "Ah, but who would pay the other half?"
The college or university in question.
For example, let's say College X (it could be a private or public institution) was interested in selling certain MetroCards at a 10-20 percent discount to students, faculty members, staff, and/or contract employees (food service and maintenance, for example). If the MTA were interested (fat chance, but you never know), this could happen, but only under the following conditions:
* Reduced costs reflect a 20% discount; colleges and universities participating in such a program could reduce costs of MetroCards by no more than 50%, but at a minimum of 10%
* A 7-day MetroCard would cost $12.50 instead of $17.00
* A 30-day MetroCard would cost $50.00 instead of $63.00
* College reduced fares are valid ONLY with proper ID presented at time of sale
* Reduced rates to eligible persons would be offered by College X ONLY at the student center ticket office, on-campus bookstore, or other designated location where tickets for other related campus events are sold
* Any student who chooses to buy MetroCards from other outlets or a TVM would pay the full cost
* Reduced College MetroCards would only be offered on 7-day or 30-day local MetroCards; Pre-paid MetroCards, 1 Day Fun Passes, and 30-day Express Bus Plus MetroCards would not be part of this program
* The balance of the MetroCard - $4.50 or $13.00 depending on the pass - would be paid by College X using whatever methods preferred, be it an increase in parking fees/fines, or a separate transportation assessment charge per semester
* The reduced discount would only be offered for eligible students from the start of the fall semester to the conclusion of the spring semester, and from the start of any summer session to its conclusion
* All students currently enrolled at College X, as well as employees of College X (direct hire and/or contract) with a valid College X ID Card would be eligible for a reduced fare College MetroCard (though employee participation could vary from school to school)
Remember, that if a member of the general public were to buy a MetroCard and happened to be at College X for whatever reason, the full fare would still apply.
(Annotations at start of post for the benefit of those who entered this discussion mid-thread.)
The Colleges in small towns offer the passes because they need the money and they want the cars off campus . If theres a local bus company , the college gets a contract with em to provide local service from a major hub and the college pays 4 the drivers salary ,the fuel , and maintanance 4 the particular route with the money from the passes . If no local company ,the college has thier own buses and works with the local town authorities .
Ps if im wrong with this post , 4 give me , im typing without research, just how i believed it worked when i was in college.
It depends on what college is involved and what state the school is located in; it also depends on what transit agencies are involved, too...
I know a few years ago, Cornell University, the City of Ithaca, and Tompkins County consolidated their systems into TCAT (Tompkins Consolidated Area Transit). Ithaca College students pay $110/semester (either August to December or January to May) or $200/academic year (August to May) for a TCAT pass. Cornell has a special OmniRide pass available for the fall semester or the full academic year (no fare info available; presumably, only Cornell students and staff know how much these passes cost).
The Chicago TA directly operates four routes for the University of Chicago; CTA had taken over service from a private contractor who according to some remarks I saw in the past, provided horrible service (come to think of it, I think it was Laidlaw). When CTA took the service over, they used the 4900-series narrow RTS buses, which were originally bought for service underneath the since discontinued 16-Lake line, which required narrow buses to operate underneath the L in the Loop area. CTA operates 4 U of Chicago lines:
#170 between UofC and the Metra (commuter rail) Station at 59/Harper
#171 to Hyde Park operating as a loop via Ellis and 55 St to 54/Shoreland, then returning via Stony Island Av
#172 to Kenwood, operating via Woodlawn and Hyde Park Blvd to 51/East End, returning via Ellis, and
#173 Express between Belmont Bus Terminal and UofC via Lake Shore Dr and Downtown Chicago
(The CTA web site has more details about the service; schedules require PDF reader)
In addition to the PennPass program noted in a previous posting in another thread, SEPTA also has several services which directly serve colleges in the region. Most colleges are served by existing SEPTA bus and rail service, most notably:
Regional Rail stations at several colleges, including Temple University, University of Pennsylvania (University City Station), Delaware Valley College near Doylestown (it's own station on the R5 Lansdale Doylestown line is the next to last stop), and Villanova (R5 Paoli Line)
Many other Main Line colleges (Overbrook section of Philadelphia, Lower Merion and Radnor Twps) are a short walking distance from either the R5 Paoli Thorndale line, the P&W, or bus Route 105
Route 120 operates directly from 69 St Terminal to Cheyney University, with service levels coordinated with the academic calender at Cheyney (summer service operates as a shuttle from Newtown Square to Cheyney, coordinated with the 104)
Starting in August, Route 104 will be extended from downtown West Chester to the West Chester University campus
The St Joseph's Campus is located along City Av (US 1), where the 65 bus operates 24/7 serivce, and is also served by the 52 bus at 54/City, which also runs 24/7
LaSalle University is located a few blocks west of Olney Terminal, with convenient connections to several bus routes and the Broad Street Subway
Many small to mid-size transit systems also operate shuttle services for colleges or offer reduced fares for students. In Pennsylvania, transit systems in Erie (Edinboro University), Altoona (Penn State-Altoona), Lancaster (Millersville University), and the Endless Mountains region (Mansfield University) either operate special routes which serve the colleges or offer reduced fares.
Then there's the other end of the school transportation spectrum ... schools with their own shuttle services.
Colleges either operate their own shuttle service (LaSalle has a small loop connecting its campus in North Philadelphia to Olney Terminal; Drexel also has a small shuttle loop; larger examples include the University of Maryland and the University of Delaware).
At West Chester University (west of Philadelphia), the school pays Krapf's Coaches to operate several shuttle bus routes using yellow school buses during the academic year.
Other colleges which also contract out include Temple (which I belive operated it's own buses until a couple of years ago), NYU, and Rutgers.
As you can see, college bus services are offered in many different ways depending on how a school is involved in the planning process.
Valley Metro Transit (Phoenix) Has Semster Passes for College, Tech, Gradauate & Trade Schools. These Passes Are Only Available At the Schools Only. Passes for Spring (January - May) & Fall Semester (August - December) are $120 and Summer Semester (June - August) are $80. (Passes are for local service only (May be used on express lines with additional fare of .50)
No. By the time one is in college, hopefully you at least have a part time job.
Blacksburg Transit has an intertesting setup. At the beginning of the semester, transit fees (around $20-25) are part of the tuition at Virginia Tech. Once paid, each VT student is given a "free pass" to ride the bus all semester long. Non-students ride for 50 cents.
Despite the cheap fares, the system has a state-of-the art facility, with half the fleet being late-model New Flyer LFs with all the bells and whistles. Also, they are looking into using the NextBus system. How they afford all this is beyond me, but I think it has a lot to do with funding from either the college or students' parents.
The Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District has a similar arrangement with the University of Illinois. All full-time UI students pay a transportation fee (about $25 per semester, IIRC). In exchange, any UI ID card serves as a bus pass. (Yes, that means that part-time students and former students can cheat the system.) The campus buses are free for everyone; since nearly everyone who rides them is eligible for free bus service, it's not worth it to collect the fare from the handful who aren't. This may have changed with the arrival New Flyer artics (which I assume have arrived by now), but I don't think the old 1981 artics even had fareboxes, and they allowed boarding through the rear door. (Every once in a while I saw an artic signed as a 13 Silver, which isn't a campus route and does collect fares. I wonder how that was done. Normally, the artics only run on the 21 Quad and the 26 Pack.)
Hmm...interesting. Blacksburg has a strict "EXIT AT REAR DOOR" policy that serves a dual purpose; to allow patrons to enter more quickly via the front door without having to wait for deboarding passengers, and to keep people from sneaking through the back door without paying fare or showing their pass. Also, the rear door mirror is watched very carefully for "gate-crashers", along with obvious safety reasons.
Rear door entry is tolerated only on the routes that are free to all. As I said, the campus routes charge no fare to anyone. Nearly every passenger is eligible for the free fare so there's little point in checking.
Saturday bus fest was good. I especially like the new bus bank route and the transit gift shop. M6, BX11, BX21, QBM1 but there was no artic bus banks only rts and there old. Ask one of the sale person at first they didn't know what I was talking about until I pointed to the artic 5509 there.
Still kicking my assover this one
When i was in Illinois i saw in a K B a toy bus . A Grumman model in NYCTA colors made to look like a CNG ORION . I thought cool i can get it here . Shucks all the K B s ive been to just have other states like NJ ,MN and Oakland Ca and they only get a couple once in a blue moon. Im sure u guys know what im typing about its scaled just above the regular small di-cast cars . I think MITSU makes em .
sorry , MAISTO makes em
You might want to try e-bay.
I have one! It is actually made by Road Champs. This is an all-white bus with NYCTA stripe and a roof-mount A/C unit, right?
Let me know if you are interested in this model....
-Fred
yup u got it
Your also right , its ROAD CHAMPS that makes em
Sure is; I have one left that is still boxed. I was overwhelmed with joy when I found that one!
According to news reports a charter carrying a church group back to Waterbury, CT. from Niagra Falls flipped over on the NYS Thruway near Rochester when the bus missed an exit.
Driver not hurt but said his diabetic condition may have contrbuted to the incident.
The bus was from CUSA - Arrow lines.
Took a look at the damage this morning and to my suprise, the entire body has already been repaired and painted. Aside from the missing number on the front bumper, she looks like she'll be in service relatively soon.
Nice work, QV maintenance.
We have another Code Red Ozone Day today meaning free bus rides in Maryland and Virginia. The Mayor of DC, Anthony Williams, was quoted on WTOP this morning saying he would love to be able to offer free MetroBus rides on Code Red days but that the federal government would need to give DC more money if they were to do that.
At least this Code Red day, I have to take the bus somewhere. Last time, I didn't.
Here in the NYC area it was brutal too, very hot and humid, and very hazy. Highs around 93F today, and it's still 87 outside as of 7:30pm.
Gonna be the 3 HHH's right through this week.
And the Orions are struggling (but moving, fortunately).
According to the National Weather Service, it hasn't gone above 88 in the past 48 hours.
This morning while on the X15, console tells all Orion Bus operators to have the retarder switch in the off position.
Why turn it off?
Isn't it harder to stop the bus then?
LOrions sometime has trouble with the retarders overheating in this hot weather. As for the bus being harder to stop, from my pass experence, yes it can be harder to stop, if the bus has the retarder is off. The brakes and retarders are made to work togather, the retarder slow the bus down to about 5mph, and the brakes stop the bus the rest of the way.
Hope this helps.
Robert
Probably because of the heat. The retarders strain the engine more.
Did I not just say this in my post.
Robert
Ive got FOX news on here just now and it is reporting a bad bus crash in Texas.
At least six dead and many injured.
The whole driver side of the coach has peeled back almost to the rear wheels.It it a bridge pillar.
Man, It look like someone open it like a tin can. I hope that on more parish from the crash.
Robert
I've been following the Queens bus strike in the NYC news media and on this board as best as possible, but I'm disappointed in the coverage so far. I have yet to see a definitive article that objectively lays out the facts behind this dispute. The heart of the dispute, as far as I can tell, is that the bus operators want to be treated the same as city (and presumably TA) employees. How does their pay compare to TA operators? How do their benefits compare to TA and city workers? How much would it cost the city if it agrees to their demands? What is the union willing to give up in exchange for such an increase?
If anyone can provide a link to some helpful articles, or provide objective data to answer these questions, I'd appreciate it.
Jim D.
Well, I can tell you that they want health benefits. By the way, does anyone know why they striked last time again?
They HAVE health benefits. What they want is to pay LESS for them (employer to pick up more of cost). Currently, for my wife and myself, $175/mo is deducted from pay, there is a $10 Dr. visit co-pay, and drug costs are $10/$20/$30, depending on the drug. These are relatively high, as in my previous employment, we paid only $45/mo, with the same co-pays. The more profitable the company, the less the employees pay for coverage.
-Hank
http://www.100megsfree3.com/dwanedoe/one.html
That didn't help, as it only mentions percentages, and doesn't have a base for them. The site is also well out of date.
What are the out-of-pocket expenses for the health plan?
-Hank
The "owners" met with the union last week & another meeting is scheduled for today, BUT the City (DOT/mayor's office) does not wish to attend.
This is a bad situation. The members will never get back what they have already lost, but don't want to come back until they get something. Meanwhile the members are handing out flyers at normal customer stops while the City seems to be waiting them out.
- What does Roger T have to say about all of this ? Does he have a plan to save the members their jobs/get them what they want ?
- What is the City waiting for ... a call from Roger ... a call from Larry Ruter, or George Pataki ?
Now we know:
From today's NY Times:
City Seeks MTA Takeover of Seven Bus Companies Routes
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/25/nyregion/25QUEE.html
Jim D.
It looks like its over for the 7 private companies. Believe some of them go back to the early 1930's.
One way its a shame but this was long overdue. We can not have one unified bus system instead of two seperate ones.
Especially in Queens where some routes which should be changed just never were.
While they will be some pain the riders of New York will benefit with better service and better bus routes
Thank You
Wimpberg is sure taking his time while Queens riders suffer. I for one would like to see some unification, but the the "problem lines" I've seen the most are at Green and Triboro. Queens Surface does a supurb job with their buses, it is a shame they have to suffer.
But Wimpberg doesn't care about the riders, the drivers, or Queens.
He's just a greedy businessman obsessed with the bottom line. :-[
The bottom line helps everyone.
Everything is better when everybody works in their own self-interest. Altruism is a disease.
(Posted for the benefit of those who haven't registered for the NY Times web site; article written by Jennifer Steinhauer, comments in regular font are my own)
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said last night that the city had begun preliminary talks to have the Metropolitan Transportation Authority take over the routes of seven private bus companies that operate in the city. Workers at three of the companies are on strike in Queens.
I doubt that New York Bus Service or Liberty Lines are going to be too thrilled with that development, though Kay-Bee could probably comment on that end better than I can.
Speaking at a town meeting in Ozone Park, Queens, Mr. Bloomberg said his administration was "talking to the M.T.A. about taking over private bus companies." The details of the proposal were unclear yesterday. The bus companies are heavily subsidized by the city, which owns many of the buses and stations.
The mayor's comments came on the eighth day of the strike, which has inconvenienced 115,000 commuters in Queens. The 1,500 drivers, mechanics and cleaners employed by Queens Surface Corporation, Jamaica Buses Inc. and the Triboro Coach Corporation, are demanding health benefits on a par with those given to city employees.
Representatives of the the M.T.A. and the Transport Workers Union Local 100, which represents the companies' workers, could not be reached for comment last night.
The city subsidies to the seven companies amount to $167 million a year, but the Bloomberg administration has said that it will not intervene in the strike. Mr. Bloomberg said that the city was willing to provide a 3.5 percent increase in health benefits to the striking workers, reflecting the consumer price index, but that the union would need to negotiate any increase beyond that with the private companies.
"Any other moneys we have for health benefits is going to go for city workers," he said. "The city takes care of its workers, and the private bus companies have to take care of their workers."
I think this is the proper action by Mayor Bloomberg. After all, would a Westchester County taxpayer expect the Spano administration to offer benefits Liberty Lines Transit employees (which operates the Bee-Line for Westchester) solely because they're contract employees for Westchester?
The point is that while these companies to operate service for the City of New York, this is a strike against _private_ carriers, and it's probably best for Bloomberg not to get involved just yet.
Mr. Bloomberg said his "best guess" was that if the M.T.A. ran the bus lines, it would maintain all the current bus company employees. He noted that the employees of the private bus companies are represented by the same unions that represent M.T.A. workers.
The Times gets this fact wrong, as Queens and Staten Island b/os are represented by ATU locals.
[...Queens and Staten Island b/os are represented by ATU locals.]
Bus operators at Green and Command are also represented by ATU. (Does anybody know which locals?)
1179
1181
As of the post time for this message, "www.ny1.com" has a news item about it.
As a follow-up, the item indicated that Mayor Bloomberg was seeking the MTA to take over only Triboro, Queens Surface, and Jamaica Buses. There was no mention of GBL, Command, NYBS, or Liberty Lines.
The schedule says that Bx55 service is provided by the Bx15 route, but makes no mention of Gun Hill Road service.
Just up to Fordham Plaza, the 41 should replace the 55 up Webster to Gun Hill for most of the overnight period.
I am going to visit a friend in NJ. I know the freehold area, but not NJT. I just have a few questions (some in general, some for the 139 bus users)
1- How does NJT collect bus fares? Is it a cash- type thing, or is it like a ticket you need to buy
2- In general, what types of equipment does the 139 use? Are there bathrooms?
3- I want to disembark at route 9/ route 33 (next to the Jersey Freeze). Do I ring a bell, or tell the driver?
4- How long should it take? On weekends, does the bus tend to get crowded?
and finally, how much should it cost?
(I tried the NJT bus page, but that doesn't help much). THanks -TRK
The 139 line accepts cash and tickets but we prefer that you purchase your ticket in the PABT before you board. That line can get crowded on the weekends at certain times. The 139 line uses mci 45 footers ( brand new ) And mci natural gas buses . None have bathrooms. You can go to the NJT website and select trip planner to tell you the approx. trip times and fares.
T.Beverett
thanx. what do i do with the ticket once I get on the bus?
Just hand it to the driver and ask him or her to let you know when your stop is getting close.
T.Beverett
At about 2:30 this afternoon, I saw Orion VI 2097 heading south on Wisconsin Avenue OOS. The route block was scrolled to W for Western although I didn't think of looking at the rest of it until after the bus had passed. I did not have my camera with me unfortunately.
I also saw 2219 but was unable to catch a glimpse of its side sign. 2219 is one of the buses that will show FRIENDSHIP HEIGHTS on the side with no route number.
That would be nice if some of the Bladensburg Orion VI's were shifted to Western too. For whatever reason, Four Mile Run has 2099, which was a Bladensburg bus, but the rest of the Orion VI's they have only go from 2000-2024 or 25.
Also spotted ex Bladensburg Flx Metro 9346 on the 22A. It looks like the 9750's and 60 series Metro D's have returned to Four Mile Run after a stint in DC, too. Nice variety for a change.
How is this for strange?
I normally don't ride the J2 late at night but in the past two weeks, I have had the occasion to do so about 5 times. On all the other nights, there were only Orion Vs. Last night, I got NABI 5237 and 5240 was heading to Montgomery Mall. There was also one other Orion V on the route. I didn't ride from end to end, so I am guessing there was one other bus on the route last night.
The interesting thing was that when we had the Orions, we often had maybe half the seats taken most nights. On the articulated, we had almost all the seats taken. Perhaps since it was Code Red, people decided to take the bus to the mall since it was free. It is Code Red again today but I am not going out there.
And how many are they suppose to get?
I seem to remember reading something about WMATA extending the 16-line Columbia Pike metrobuses past the Pentagon and into Central DC. I thoroughly combed the WMATA website, and it mentioned some minor changes to the 16-line, but nothing so drastic as this.
This is the one specific change which I remember, but I also recall that now that Metrorail is at capacity, more and more of the "forced transfers" from the larger bus lines will be ended, resulting in the lengthening of many bus lines. Does anyone have more info about this? Especially the 16-line? Thanks.
Haven't heard anything to that effect about the 16 line, though it'd be convenient if they did extend it into DC. Metro is trying to alleviate subway crowding through a number of (relatively) new reverse-commute and express point-to-point buses; for example, the 5A and 5B from L'Enfant Plaza to Dulles Airport and Tysons Corner, respectively, the N11 from Branch Ave. to King St., and the not-so-new SmartMover service from Bethesda to Tysons. In effect, Metro's beginning to create a "loop line" with bus service to minimize the number of suburban commuters travelling through the congested downtown rail hubs, a route that may be traced with tracks in coming years if Purple Line light-rail construction commences.
BTW, general-interest announcement for Washingtonians, tomorrow (tues) is another Code Red air day; free rides on Maryland and Virginia routes. Enjoy, busfans, I say bitterly, since my trip to work is within DC. :(
C
I don't have anywhere to go by bus today. Oh well.
Last night, the bag on the J2 was yellow, not red. Maybe we can get free rides on code yellow days too! (JK) Also, waiting for the buses outside was not fun. You had cars going by creating exhaust and at Montgomery Mall, a Ride-On 26 was idling. The idling bus combined with the fact two people waiting for the J2 were smoking did not make it particuraly good air to breathe. Can they ban smoking on Code Red days?
Can they ban smoking on Code Red days?
Ick, I wish. I was breathing in the collective secondhand smoke of two or three people at the Friendship Heights bus stop about an hour ago . . . I wish smokers would at least have the consideration to step away from the benches to light up. Oh, well.
In other news, I saw Ride-On Gillig Phantom 955363, apparently broken-down, in tow northbound on Western Ave. near Friendship Heights at about 5:40. I also noticed that WMATA Flxible Metro-B 8953, which IIRC was running the N-line at about the same time, appears to have been equipped with replacement OEM wraparound taillights instead of the dopey-looking LED units WMATA's been retrofitting its Flxis with. Couldn't tell for sure, but they appeared new and clean and the panel beneath them had been replaced with new sheetmetal. Hope it's the beginning of a trend, as they look vastly better than the LEDs. 8953, which I think was one of the earlier repainted Metro-Bs, is also notable for the fact that its rear grill is painted blue but the grill surround/rear panel is painted white, like the Orions but unlike most other repainted Flxibles.)
C
I used to see 8953 running around on Northern routes, like the 64 out of Fort Totten a few years ago and I saw that white trim on the back vs. the all blue. It looked like one of the Road Champ buses. I think of the B's were spared the newer lights in the back, which is nice to see. However, I see them as being the first Metro victims to be retired in the coming years.
Sadly, I think you're right: the Bs will be the first to the boneyard. A shame, really; the 40102 B with the gently raked rear is the quintessential Washington bus.
C
I saw a different looking back on 9305 yesterday. Instead of the slanted back of the B's, it had the straight back of the D's and E's on it. Its the only one like it that I've seen.
Saw a ton of the New Flyer CNG's driving down K Street. They look pretty sharp. I do like them better than the Orion VI's as far as appearances. Rode Orion VI 2008 from Rosslyn to Ballston after the Orange Line I was on had problems between Foggy Bottom and Rosslyn and we were deboarded at Rosslyn. The platform was absolutely jammed between the several hundred of us on the train, plus the many people already waiting, so I bailed and took the 38B home.
I'm going to take a week off in September, so I'm getting a day together to take some of these new routes, B11, J4, then make my way back to L'Enfant Plaza and catch the 5B to Tysons Corner.
Why would they convert the Bs to the D/E back end? Was this an A/C upgrade or part of a repowering?
I'm not sure why that one particular bus had its back end completely replaced like that. Maybe the A/C was totally shot. Its the only one that I've seen like that.
Hmm. I always preferred the slight slope of the Grummans and early Metros to that straight-angle rear on the D/E...maybe it was an effort to "modernize" the bus, but I think it had to be more for mechanical reasons than aesthetic properties.
-Fred
I remember reading that there was a possibility of extending the 16 line, not all of them, just the ones that run to Shirlington were to go to Farragut Square rather than terminating at the Pentagon. It was supposed to have been discussed at the June 20th board meeting, but I don't see anymore about it. Before the metro was in full swing, the 16's all used to run to Union Station and Federal Triangle. The 5A is very popular, almost too much as people are using it to commute to the city vs. using it for the reverse commuters and effecitively caused WMATA to raise the price from $1.10 to $2, thus making it an Express Line.
The new J4 is also a derivation of what the purple line would be through the PG and Montgomery suburbs. It has been named the "International Express" since it goes through many different sections of the area.
...........seen on Jamaica Avenue westboundthis afternoon with JAM decal on the driver side rear pork chop panel
Just wondering if any SI commuters were affected by this one:
On 57th Street near 3rd Avenue this evening, at about 6:10 PM, MCI coach 1917 had the attention of New York's bravest. From what I could tell, 1917, smoking badly from the rear wheel wells, had a minor fire underneath it. Not sticking around long enough, I can't tell if the coach was saved. Thankfully, the bus was not occupied and a TA supervisor was on scene as well.
Thanks,
M.Valera
www.transitalk.org
Can anyone post of the photos you guys took in the bus Rodeo in Jersey last weekend?
Regards,
Kevin
www.natransit.com---nytc
As in past years, I will have limited access to the Internet between now and July 22. I will read the board on occasion and post every once in awhile. I will try to respond to all my e-mail although if you send me something and I don't respond right away, I will do so as soon as I can.
I will also not be updating my website during this time. I have added pictures of the WMATA CAF (5000 Series) cars. The URL is www.orenstransitpage.com.
Talk to you all when I get back!
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Took the NY Waterway ferry service from Lower Manhattan to Bay Ridge last night. Saw several Coach USA Orions being used for the Shuttle to Shore Rd/4th Ave that Command use to operarte.
NY Waterways replaced the Staten Island Ferry that was used on this service which started due to the 9/11 terror attacks
Thank You
NY Waterway took over this ferry service and shuttle bus service as of Yesterday
Does NYW charge a fare?
Well. Yea on ALOT of their Ferry Routes exept for the Pier 11-Brooklyn Ferry,that ferry route is free and so as the shuttle buses along Shore Road
In some cases discounts can be worked out. Look at TransitChek and Commuter Check, they take money out of commuter's paychecks and gives them discounted fares. In other cases, the company gets these then sells it to their employees for a cheaper price. I wonder how much (if any) of taxpayers money goes for this?
So technically, everyone can get discounted fares (well almost anyway). Assuming that your job is involved with this program.
http://www.dvrpc.org/transportation/transitchek.htm
http://www.commutercheck.com/
Channel 4-TV and the NY Times have news of Bloomberg having discussions with MTA for them to take over the private lines and have the employees absorbed into the TA.
What they did not say (and probably dont know) is if they will be called TA, MaBSTOA or some new subsidiary. My guess is that it would be TA since NYCT wants to fold MaBSTOA into NYCT and LI Bus anyway.
Brooklyn67, Thurston , your comments?
I think the name would be something like "Regional Bus so and so". I've heard the name somewhere.
Is it possible the MTA will takeover the 7 privates? This would be a shame. I liked seeing Triboro coach buses although some of their buses could have seen some better days. Would this be better off if the MTA did takeover the 7 privates or would this be a bad move?
A very bad move, considering that:
NY Bus Service and Liberty Lines most likely have no intention of ever giving up their Bronx to Manhattan express franchises
MTA taking over the remaining 5 privates in Queens and Brooklyn has enough problems to fill Shea Stadium; specifically:
Absorbing all of the Green, Triboro, Queens Surface, JBL, and Command routes into the NYC Transit route network
Absorbing the employees of same carriers into the various seniority lists at TA or MaBSTOA
Finding suitable space for any NYCDOT bus within the NYCTA system
The various state and federal regulations that NYCTA and NYCDOT would have to go through just to even get into the early stages of such a takeover, and
The cost of executing the takeover, which would most likely be passed along to riders in the form of higher fares
Many of the regulars at this board have already posted comments about such a scenario and probably could go into more detail, possibly off the board. What I just explained to you is just the "Cliff's Notes version" of why such a scenario may never play out - at least in many of our lifetimes...
I am not arguing with you, but then how did the Fifth Avenue Coach Line takeover come to fruition?
Couldn't NYCT just take over their depot for their routes and have their operators retain their seniority at their current depot? Of course any new operators would be TA and have TA seniority?
Probably the private companies buildings would turn into depots. Drivers would be locked into those depots for maybe a year. After the different questions about seniority and pension and health benefits are worked out, Maybe there would be some kind of pick set up so that all the drivers could be evenly spread out. Maybe far-fetched.
The FACC situation was entirely different. Pension and labor laws weren't as tough as they are today. In 1962 you had to work a certain number of years to get a pension. There was no vesting or portability of retirement benefits. If you left one day before the X-number of years you were SOL unlike today where you get something.
FACC attempted to fire many drivers who were close to retirement in order to save pension costs. The union struck and wouldn't go back until this was resolved, which FACC was unwilling to do.
In order to provide bus service NYC had to go to court and takeover the routes by a legal term "condemnation". FACC and the city ended up in court for many years until a fair value for the assets seized was agreed upon...You can read further about this situation in the Local Bus Companies Section of this site.
The current situation is different in that service is being provided to some riders. If the strike drags on then similarities to 1962 and FACC might be raised for the City to take over.
To paraphrase the commericial----Thurston's value to QSC, priceless, for everything else there's Master........
Thurston would keep his job, except the emploer's name on his paycheck would change. Thiurston would still be priceless for his new employer, MTA Whatever, working at their College Park Depot (Poddible namer fort the QSC Depot).
If I implied Thurston was less than pricelss it was not my intent.
Again- all current employees should keep their current job at their current location and seniority.
**anything** less than that is a travesty.
I'm not going to assume that any of those eggs will hatch into chickens. I happen to like working for a person, but I've worked for big corporations before so I can adapt if necessary.
Mr t
[NY Bus Service and Liberty Lines most likely have no intention of ever giving up their Bronx to Manhattan express franchises.]
The franchises DO NOT belong to the companies. NYCDOT owns the franchises as well as (most of) the buses, and can recall both if and when it wants.
- - - - -
[Absorbing all of the Green, Triboro, Queens Surface, JBL, and Command routes into the NYC Transit route network; Absorbing the employees of same carriers into the various seniority lists at TA or MaBSTOA.]
Both were done with Avenue B & East Broadway in 1980.
- - - - -
[Finding suitable space for any NYCDOT bus within the NYCTA system.]
Presumably, NYCT would take over the garages as well as the buses and routes. The two DOT-owned facilities wouldn't be a problem; the others might be.
- - - - -
[The various state and federal regulations that NYCTA and NYCDOT would have to go through just to even get into the early stages of such a takeover...]
Again, it worked when Avenue B & East Broadway went belly-up.
- - - - -
[The cost of executing the takeover, which would most likely be passed along to riders in the form of higher fares.]
Maybe, and maybe not.
- - - - -
In other words... If the Powers That Be want a takeover to happen, they'll make it happen in some way, shape, or form. If they don't want it to happen, it won't happen.
Remember Avenue B was a smaller companies with IIRC two routes and a few pieces of equipment. Much easier to absorb than 5 Companies and hundreds of drivers, mechanics and Thurston
[Is it possible the MTA will takeover the 7 privates?]
This is New York -- anything can happen, and usually does.
- - - - -
That said, I'd like to raise a (probably stupid) question:
Every discussion I've read or heard on this topic includes an implicit assumption that Transit would DIRECTLY operate DOT's routes. Why is it so "obviously" necessary to assume direct operation? Couldn't Transit take over only the franchise and funding functions, or - gasp!! - solicit competitive bids? (Goodbye to guaranteed revenues!) Or perhaps operate some routes and either "franchise" or bid out others? What am I missing here?
The best-case for this is for the MTA to take over, retaining the employees, and matching the contract to the Transit Authority's. Why should our tax dollars go towards guaranteeing a profit to a private company? There are also significant deficencies in the operations of these companies, based on what I'm reading here.
-Hank
Why do I have this dream that Coach USA will take over the privates? They seem to have taken over everything else!
I really can't believe QSC, Triboro and others will be gone. The variety was nice, and I love the look (paint scheme and inside) of QSC's and Triboro's buses, way better than the dull MTA colors.
It's a shame I may never ride a QSC bus again. Thanks Wimpberg....
Rode via Coach USA/Suburban Transit. From PABT rode on a new 8500 series MCI to the depot. Observed a few Bluebirds and 1 old Grumman in the parking lot as well as regular coaches from various model years. After eating a few belly bombers a couple hundred feet down the road, returned and took a short 10 minute jaunt ($1.40 cost) to downtown New Brunswick and a climb up to the AMTRAK platform. Observed a few trains "fly" past the station on the middle tracks, including 2 ACELA expresses. Returned to PABT on an orange Suburban Transit MC9. The old lady ran well considering her age and mileage. Suburban Transit has non peak M-F 15 minute headways to/from New Brunswick. On the NJT as soon as you enter at interchange 9, we noticed and old Staten Island Ferry Boat in shallow water to the right of the road. You can only see it from a bus as you have a higher view. That ferry has been there for I bet close to 20 years rotting away. I think it is Miss New York. Anybody have further info on that ferry?
Verrazano Ferry Boat
from within the nycsubway.org/quuxum family of sites: http://www.quuxuum.org/~nixon/transport/page2.html
That Suburban route is a nice ride ... next time, you should take it down to Princeton. Princeton has a very quaint and upscale downtown area, and the Princeton U campus is beautiful.
Are these "belly bombers" you refer to are the lunch trucks of Rutgers?
I remember reading about them in Weird NJ and in a Star Ledger article ... makes the Red Hawk truck at Montclair State look like a health food store!
Belly Bombers = traditional nickname for White Castle burgers. They even had t-shirts that said that years ago
ro what i seen Buses: #9077-9079, 9081, 9083, 9090, 9093, 9099 have LED Tail Lamps more to Come i hope
sorry about that from what i have seen Buses: #9077-9079, 9081, 9083, 9090, 9093, 9099 have LED Tail Lamps more to Come i hope
add #9100 with this. Saw it yestrday on 42nd Street near 6th Avenue as a training bus RECENTLY REPAINTED!!
Can anybody tell me where #7560 is AT some say GH some say JG which one has this BUs
#7560 B61
#7560 Bx29
NYCT Orion CNG #7560 is not @ Gun Hill Depot anymore maybe it is @ Jackie Gleason Depot right now.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
it is as gleason at this time
Actually, I was told by someone who works there that it is now up in Canada...at first, it was thought to be up in Oriskany, where MARTA's Orion VIIs are being built, but it was turned to my attention that it's up in Canada...this comes from a somewhat reliable source.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
7560 is at JG Depot, I saw it last week.
It is obvious that the Bloomberg administration is pushing an MTA takeover of the franchise routes to get out from under its $167 million annual subsidy. The MTA, meanwhile, will gladly take over both the franchise routes and the Westchester County operations to build its empire. And the bus operators who are making life so miserable for their customers in Queens will get their cherished job security and benefits parity with the TA employees. Everybody wins, right?
Except for the New York State taxpayer, who stands once again to get screwed (particularly those of us who live upstate). Here in Syracuse, Centro lurches from one financial crisis to another, because the politicians in Albany cannot (or will not) pass a dedicated funding source for the state's smaller transit operators. Instead, much of the funding comes from a 'mortgage recording fee', which has hardly been sufficient during tough economic times throughout much of the state.
Let's be fair - the legislation to form a new 'MTA Regional Bus' operation should also provide funding help for transit authorities across the state. Otherwise, it's just another example of the upstate taxpayer paying the freight for New York City.
Jim D.
What you just said is one of the main reasons why Bloomberg's idea for an MTA takeover of the privates is going to fall on deaf ears up in Albany.
[Here in Syracuse, Centro lurches from one financial crisis to another, because the politicians in Albany cannot (or will not) pass a dedicated funding source for the state's smaller transit operators.]
Umm... The entire Upstate region already has a dedicated funding source: NYC residents. We've been oversubsidizing the rest of the state for decades, sending far more to Albany in taxes than we receive in state-funded services (e.g. public transportation).
And more importantly, education.
-Hank
<<< And more importantly, education >>>
Last time I checked, Upstate residents were helping to support both the SUNY and CUNY college systems, even though we get no direct benefits from the latter.
And if NYC-area dollars were flowing so freely for education, why is it that the Syracuse city school district is in such dire straits? And why are my property taxes so high?
Jim D.
If this was to take place and the MTA would scoop up the EPA Compliant Buses, i.e. the Orion 5s and TMC RTSs
First off, the Orions:
Take all 260 units between the three companies and number them 6350-6609. Take the 10 Orion 6 Hybrid Electrics to 6610-6619. Take the current Orion 7 Hybrid order and change it from the high 9000s to 6620-6744. Take the current Orion 7 CNG order and make it 6745-6994.
Next the TMCs:
Take 197 units between the three and number then 8397-8399, 8567-8599, 8704-8749 and 9700-9813 filling the vacant RTS numbers.
Ok becasue of the EPA requirements the 168 GMC RTSs and Classics would have to go, SO we buy 88 MCI D4501s to replace the Classics and 80 New Flyer DE40LFs, preferrably DE40LF Hybrids since CNG sucks!
Any Comments,
Regards,
Trevor Logan
If the takeover of the privates is similar to the Fifth Avenue/Surface takeover, the only renumbering of buses would be to avoid duplicate numbers. I doubt if any necessary renumbering would be done in a way to get models from the privates numbered near the TA numbers of similar models. But, of course, until anything actually happens, we bus fans can go on dreaming any way we wish!
Trevor, I read from "The Leader" that the New Orion VII Hybrids are to be numbered #6365-6489. Is that now changing?
No, that's a change well because originally it was set to be 97 and 9800 Series, so I guess they've changed to the 6300-6400 Series. Good Lord!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
LOL! I know...anything can happen in the MTA. We all should know that by now.
Trevor,
Why renumber 6350 to 6359 its extra work. Start the Orions at 6361 if the MTA still has the Nova RTS 6360
Why not renumber the RTS buses from 7300 and up
Thank You
The reason to renumber the Orion 6 Hybrids elsewhere is to keep the Orion 5s in number back to back. If it was to start from 6361 you would spill from 6994 to 7004 WHICH of course we know is the RTS Remans.
And for the RTSs, its to fill in the gaps, 7300 is just any old where, originally I was gonna pick 78 and 7900 BUT I got the idea to just fill in the unused RTS numbers.
See?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Trevor
Leave the Orion VII's numbered in the high 9000's
You can not make the TA think too much
Thank You
Well, remember.....
This is ONLY a dream!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
<<< Umm... The entire Upstate region already has a dedicated funding source: NYC residents. We've been oversubsidizing the rest of the state for decades, sending far more to Albany in taxes than we receive in state-funded services (e.g. public transportation). >>>
Well, most Upstate residents would disagree. I recall seeing a study a few years back which concluded that if New York City were seperated from the rest of the state, the income tax rate paid by the remaining N.Y. state residents could be reduced 25 to 30 percent.
If what you claim is true, then we all ought to march on Albany, because there certainly isn't any evidence that NYC's riches are being spent around here.
Jim D.
[Gotham: The entire Upstate region already has a dedicated funding source: NYC residents. We've been oversubsidizing the rest of the state for decades, sending far more to Albany in taxes than we receive in state-funded services (e.g. public transportation).]
[RailBus: Well, most Upstate residents would disagree. I recall seeing a study a few years back which concluded that if New York City were seperated (sic) from the rest of the state, the income tax rate paid by the remaining N.Y. state residents could be reduced 25 to 30 percent.]
- - - - -
The five boroughs have long been perceived by upstate politicians as a cash cow to be milked beyond dry, and then milked some more. That's why, for all the "studies" that have been done, Albany will never allow NYC to secede from the state.
For a prime example, look no further than Pataki's own record:
1. In the 1994 election, in which Pataki won the state but lost the city, he punished city residents by diverting NYC Transit's sales tax funds to upstate pork barrels. (For those who don't know, the city's 8.25% sales tax is supposed to break down as 4% city, 4% state, 0.25% NYC Transit.) That diversion of funds forced the 1995 fare increase, and continues to this day!!
2. In the 1998 election, in which Pataki (again) won the state but lost the city, he punished city residents by killing the city's commuter tax. (Of course, he kept the state's commuter tax, as well as Yonkers'.) That forces city residents to pay for services used by out-of-towners.
3. In the 2002 election, Pataki will (probably) win the state and lose the city. (This despite his two-term promise.) The only unknown is how he'll punish us next year.
JUST NYC Transit? IIRC, the .25% additional sales tax is paid in the entire MTA service area, which includes Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Orange, Dutchess, and Putnam counties.
-Hank
[JUST NYC Transit? IIRC, the .25% additional sales tax is paid in the entire MTA service area, which includes Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Orange, Dutchess, and Putnam counties.]
To clarify: Yes, the 0.25% additional sales tax is administered throughout the MTA district. However, according to the enabling legislation...
* the portion paid by Nassau and Suffolk residents is earmarked for the LIRR (and it actually goes to the LIRR).
* the portion paid by the northern suburbs is earmarked for Metro-North (and it actually goes to Metro-North).
* the portion paid by NYC residents is earmarked for NYC Transit (but goes instead to the state's general fund, to be used elsewhere).
So, is the sales tax 8.25% in all of New York State or just in the MTA district?
NY State sales tax is 4%. Each county can add its own sales tax to it, typically 3%-4%. For example, in Albany the rate is 8%, in Sullivan County, 7%, and in Suffolk and Nassau, 8.5%.
-Hank
Pataki was the one that caused the #5 to stop going to E 241 Street. So if you have long waits on the #2 blame him.
What are you babbling about?
-Hank
Babbling? you call that babbling, that was a statement. Since you don't understand... let me explain then
Pataki cut the funding for the MTA in 1995, causing them to terminate the #5 at 238 instead of 241. It was also the same year that the fare went up from 1.25 to 1.50.
The 5 terminates at 238st so the trains can go directly into the yard to be laid up .
Yeah, I know that, but if the funding wasn't cut, the #5 would probably still be terminating at 241.
You're babbling again.
The fare goes up when costs go up. The state can either raise taxes, or raise fares to pay those costs. Guess what's more likely to be done, no matter the state nor who is in charge.
The fare needs to rise agin this year, to at least $1.75. Thanks to it being an election year, it'll likely go closer to $2.00 when they finally raise it late next year.
The 5 goes to 238 so that the relay moves don't block the main line. Nearly all PM rush 5 service on White Plains Road goes up, and doesn't return to Manhattan. The train goes OOS after that stop.
-Hank
Just that one little statement about the #5 and YOU think that I am babbling? That last comment wasn't even a rant and YOU call that babbling. Please, stop wasting my time with that nonsense.
I mentioned that the fare went up that year and that if Pataki didn't cut the funds, (and if service cuts didn't take place) the #5 would still go to 241. I KNOW why the #5 goes to 238, just was pointing out what actually caused it.
I'm sure you're going to think this is babbling as well (in which I will just have to explain myself again so you can finally understand).
To say nothing of the smaller upstate systems: Poughkeepsie, Binghamton, and Ithaca come to mind.
I was under the impression that the 4 upstate RTAs - Niagara Frontier TA (Buffalo), Rochester-Genessee RTA, Centro, and Capital District TA (Albany) all recieved a portion of their funds from a specialized and dedciated pool of funding.
Hopefully, as part of an MTA takeover, the geniuses in Albany can work out a deal where MTA, Upstate RTAs (Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse), the smaller Upstate and rural systems, and the major downstate operators (Suffolk, Westchester, and Rockland) are funded under a more equitable and increased funding formula.
The reason I make that suggestion is you have the two major legislative leaders in Albany representing two distinctly different regions - Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver of Manhattan, and Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno from the Capital District area (I think it's Rensellear (sp?), but I know it's somewhere near Albany).
Then again, considering that Silver and Bruno can't even agree on the weather, I wouldn't count on it.
I don't know about the other major Upstate systems, but Centro's funding is tied to the 'Mortgage Recording Tax'. The problem is, most of the state north of NYC has suffered through difficult economic times in recent years, resulting in fewer home sales and fewer mortgage tax collections. Centro cut one-fourth of its service in 1995, and the authority has barely overcome several funding crises in the years since. If the politicians in Albany are going to take care of the bus riders in Queens, its only fair that they do the same for transit riders Upstate.
Jim D.
Please forgive me for posting this but does anybody know the website address for the NYCT and NYCDOT destination signs? "FDNY"'s website has "Page can not be found". However, I might have the wrong address, so that's why I'm posting this. Thanks to all in advance.
Try this:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/9293/destsigns.htm
Jim D.
That's the old one but thanks Jim.D!
FDNY has removed his site temporarily. I believe he will be returning with an updated version in the near future. I also believe that he sporadically reads the messages here.
If you'd like, I can forward a message to him via email. Send it to me at the above address and I'll forward to him.
Okay, thanks Brooklyn67!
there's also another website that not only shows all the destination signs for all the bus routes in the city but it also has the code numbers that the bus drivers punch in to appear on every bus.for example: code #1093 for the bus route destination sign of M9 Chatham Sq. the web address is www.geocites.com/nyctbusman2000/destsigns
Thanks! That was one of them. You are a life saver! :)
Shauns material is very very outdated...if you need more up to date stuff..call me
Steve
914 668 9218
I had the day off and was able to do this trip today. Very exciting.
Started off at Huntington Station where i caught the S1(Gillig) to Walt Whitman Mall. I had a choice, do i go to the main Suffolk offices or investigate the Inter-County Coach Depot? I went for the latter and caught the S29(Flexible 30-foot) to Babylon. If anyone is a fan of Suffolk Buses and trying to get pictures, i suggest you get to Babylon. Inter-County Coach is located about 1 1/2 blocks away from the station. Suffolk Transit runs buses from there and from what i saw they look very good and yes Fred, the Flexibles are still in serivce.
I then caught the N19 to Freeport. I feel bad for all you LIBUS riders today. I was talking to a driver and he had said that a lot of the buses were overheating and out of service( i even saw one of them heading that way #329 on the N19 line).
Here is a list of what i saw:
HART: Gillig #501,#503 and #601.
Suffolk Transit:
Orion V: #9913,#9911,#9930,#9942.
Gillig:#9615,#911,#9616,#9632,#9600,#940 and #941.
Flexible: #9333,#9336,#9337,#9335,#9331.
also had a chance to see a picture of a old Flyer #553 is Suffolk Colors.
S1-#9616-Gillig
S29-#9338-Flexible
N19-#238-Orion V CNG
Simon, good to hear about your trip and that the Flxibles are still in service. If my ride home doesn't get here soon, I just may have to share a bus trip experience with you as well!
Mine will be composed of Gillig stories if that is the case. My favorites are the 91s as they have the 6V92TA, but I also like the 01s as they have a nice, smooth Cummins ISL. The 94s are my least favorite as they have a very clunky Series 50 drivetrain, which does not hold up well in our buses, but does succeed in putting me to sleep when I ride.
If only we had Flxes like Suffolk does...
Where can I find the 01s Gillig?
Told ya those Orions would be dropping like flies at LI bus. the funny thing is, in the transit store they have a small toy replica of a LI Bus, but it is an RTS!!! If only LI Bus bought DIESEL RTS's we wouldn't be having so many breakdowns.
As one other gentleman pointed out, "Onions" really make you cry.
I saw 200 broke down, and had transmission trouble on a brand new Crap V CNG, 392.
;(
More Onions breaking down. What else is new?
#9614 Q32
The reason why there is only a model of the RTS LIBus and no Orions is that there is no model of the Orion made. Most plastic bus models are made by Jimson, a company in Hong Kong. Several individuals, Charles Wotring/Royal Coach primarily, imports a bare bones bus and puts various decals on them.
Haven't seen an Orion model in any livery on the market. Considering it is a fairly boxy looking bus, I don't think its a hard mold to make.
Only question is would it sell? Corgi has had trouble selling many of their MCI 102DL3's and have cut the production run from between 7,000 and 8,000 down to between 2,000 to 3,000.
First, it's the Babylon Bus Depot...not the Inter-County Depot. Second, I'm surprised those New Flyer's are still there. I remember those buses years ago when I use to visit my Grandparents in Southampton. Those New Flyers were always in Riverhead on the #8A route and occasionally on the S62. I thought they were Flxible New Looks, LOL! BTW, Suffolk Transit also had GMC New Looks (601-620). Those were about 35-feet (the good old days). Damn, I'm old (23 years old)!
I agree; having those New Looks surely must have been the good old days. On another note, how could you confuse a New Flyer with a Flxible New Look? Were they the older Flyers that looked similar?
Yes! Very much so, I was at least about 2 when I saw my first Suffolk Bus (1980). Maybe it was later.
That puts us in about the same age group. I was the same age when we first got our fleet of Grumman Flxibles (1979), which was a whole year before they arrived at NYCTA. My Dad always told me about how I used to run around talking about the "brand-new city bus". I barely remember saying this, but it takes me back every time I ride one!
-Fred
I know the feeling! LOL!
I think that ICMC, Babylon Bus and a school bus company (John Bosch ?) are owned by the same company or family like the Coopers and JBL, GBL and TCC in Queens.
Incidentally there is no telephone listing for Babylon Bus but there is a listing for Babylon Transit Supplies at 243 DPA in Babylon, the same address as ICMC.
the new flyer wasnt there. there was a picture of it in the office.
Where did you saw a pic of #553? Is it in the internet?
the picture is at the garage itself,in the office.
Rumor: Artics will be on the Q44 for the fall pick.
Debate: Where to service them, as Queens Division hasn't a capable lift.
Management: "I'm building lifts at Jamaica".
Union: "Yeah, right."
We've been unofficially informed NOT to go near them...
Stay Tuned!
With the Q44/20 schedule all set and ready to go for the Fall 2002 pick, I can safely say that there are no plans to place artics on that, or any other Queens Division, route come September.
The three depots are still getting used to the MCI's, which are only in service in JAM so far. Queens Village may receive about 60 hybrid-electrics next year, and there is a plan for Stengel to receive 28 artics sometime next year. New bus assignments for 2003 is so ridiculously far off into the future, that it's not even worth discussing at this point. As a great TA philosopher once said, "This is Transit, where anything can happen and usually does."
Mark
When QV MCI's and CS MCI's would be in service by?
Soon. Next month maybe?
I couldn't agree with you more. You'd have to hear this guy "Ruggerio" speak for yourself, to enjoy the laughter first-hand.
Now, let's see how long it takes for somebody on this board to ask you for the 2003 bus assignments, or the exact date QV will get their Hybrid-Electrics.
BIG AL
While traveling home today on coach 5345 I overheard other passengers mentioning that water was coming into the bus. I ignored them and resumed listening to my radio. I didn't notice the severity of the problem until i noticed a large pool forming around my feet. As I turned around, i saw a fat, continous stream of water pouring into the bus from the silver ceiling beam closest to the center axle.
Does anyone else find this disturbing\apalling?
Also, does this happen on other models often?
Faulty unit, this is the first time I've ever heard about this on a New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" unit, so its probably just a faulty beam on this bus only.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
-------this is the first time I've ever heard about this on a New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" unit-*----
Does leaking happen on other brands\models of coaches?
I've seen it on Orions. The diesel Orion V's at LI Bus leak all over the place when it rains. They are being retired. Also I've had some of the older Orion V CNG's leak in the back.
Qtraindash7,
Which numbers have been retired of the LI Bus Orion 05.501 Diesel fleet?
I'm guessing it's all the ones in the 500 series, I haven't seen one operating anywhere in the past 3 months.
Also I have a feeling the 600s arent going to be around for much longer.
The 500s had blue floors like the Gilligs, while 600-655 had black floors like the CNG buses.
I've seen it before, Trevor. I was riding the Bx39 one day and the artic I was on (I don't remember the number) was leaking like a sieve. I'm starting to wonder about the durability of the Flyer artics. They ride like shit and rattle and vibrate like crazy. The older one's are constantly rupturing their hydraulic lines thus spewing their power steering and transmission fluids all over the street. Watching artics assigned to the Bx12 line bounce up and down as they traverse Pelham Parkway has me wondering just how durable the articulated joint that holds both halves together really is. Could we one day possibly see an artic split in half due to the failure of the articulated joint? NYC's horrendous streets are part of the problem but you have to start to wonder about the build quality of the New Flyer artics.
one time i was one a BX41 the school run that sits outside Mount saint micheal.and the joints got stock in a tree and the joint ripped.it was bus 5455
I assume you mean the diaphragm, as the joint is under the bus and would have a hard time sticking in a tree. The diaphram is the most maintainance intensive part of an articulated bus. I believe its made of reinforced vinyl.
-Hank
They just make stuff like crap nowadays, don't they?
Yeah, just like the crap they used to make 30-40 years ago too. I've driven PLENTY of GM fishbowls with leaky windshields, AM Generals where the windshields, roofs, etc.leaked. Flxibles with leaks around the wheelwells so when you go through a puddle whoever's sitting around it takes a soapless bath.
It's nothing to do with the way things are made "nowadays". There is faulty stuff in any time period.
The D40LF that I now drive every day had a "leak" the other morning, passengers on the right side were commenting about water drips. Turned out it was the air conditioning, the humidity was just right so that the ductwork had condensation in it. After about an hour the problem went away. today I ran the first trip without the benefit of AC, just ran the vents on high, and no problem.
--Turned out it was the air conditioning--
That happened to me once before last summer, but today it was definitly the rain, and it wasn't coming from the vents.
Another place it might come from on the New Flyer low floors -- the 40-footers have a roof seam halfway from front to rear, and that seam's seals don't always maintain their integrity. Especially when they are beaten to death almost nightly in a wash rack's rotating brushes.
I saw #4572 from JAM doing Tranning Service turning from White Plains Road onto Bruckner Blvd and I also saw RTS #8357 doing Tranning Service and I saw it when it parked at the BxM7A Bus Stop and the workers went into Taco Bell.
I only took a Pic of the front of #8357 and I was going to take a pic of the back as well but the BxM7A had came into the bus stop. As after I got on I saw a driver of #8357 looking at the BxM7A Bus Stop sign.
I would like to know why they got Tranning Buses from Queens in the Bronx? Can't they use Tranning Buses from the Bronx within the Bronx?
Training buses are used all over the city and can appear at anywhere at anytime. They are not assigned to stay within a particular borough. They are used as needed.
Here is 1993 Orion 05.501 #93008 (108) in on East Tremont Avenue in the Bronx.....
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
A couple of months ago I seen Kingsbridge's 8854 parked outside of Fresh Pond Depot. It said TRANING BUS.
-
Jay
The buses' home depot is irrelevant during any training session. Instructors have only so many buses available to them. Each instructor is assigned a particular depot for their trick. An instructor who is familiar with, and drove out-of Staten Island could be assigned a depot in Manhattan. Since the instructor is familiar with the routes of his prior location, you're apt to find that Manhattan training bus in Staten Island. The same philosophy would apply with depots/instructors throughout the system.
I trained out of 132nd Street, yet we never drove in Manhattan. We always drove in the Bronx.
In short, the instructor can take the bus anywhere within the 5 boroughs, and on any designated bus route (not necessarily a TA/OA route either- but in light of the current strike, I doubt they would run off any OA/TA specific routes).
Speaking of instructors... anyone hear anything about Mike Donovan? He still around?
Let's not forget that some routes (Q44 comes to mind) travel between boroughs by going over bridges such as the Whitestone. I'd rather have a driver learn how to drive a bus over a bridge on a training bus than learn "on the fly" in revenue service with passengers on board.
Back in the day when Training was at Walnut Depot the examiners had their test routes in the bronx. They all have there own routine but prefer to keep in in the Bronx in places like Bruckner and Soundview areas instead of learning new places where to instruct their students.
They get the bus from a depot that has a modified training bus to spare and travel to the Bx to practice and teach the student operators .
I started my training out of good 'ol Walnut and the very first place I ever drove a bus was in the Soundview area, back in 1994 when the last of the newlook Flxibles were going out of service. However, besides the RTS, I did get a chance to drive a 5000 series Fishbowl Blitz for a day. Brings back memories.
BIG AL
What numbers were those Flxible if you can remember?
They were 9000's. I don't exactly remember the numbers but I saw them running in Manhattan when I was taking my physical for bus operator in August 1994. I had no clue then that they were going off the road in a matter of days. I believe they were 91 or 9200's. Also, there were a few 7000's on the road also. (7500-7700?) They went off also with the last 9000's, ending the story for the Newlook Flxibles.
BIG AL
I rode the BxM7A today and I got a MCI Classic Both ways(#1652 and #1623). And oh man! These buses look so clean! The floors don't have any liter and No liter in sight! And the seats look shiny! I wounder how do NYBS keep their buses so clean?
On a Rateing scale for NYBS of cleanness of their buses,I give it a rateing of a 10!
Ed Arrigoni never tolerates dirty equipment... never has, never will.
Exactly so when this next order of MCI D4000, now supposed to be 60 in NJT Spec, they will probably be the best looking MCI Cruisers in this region!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
When the D4000's for NYBS is comming in? Is any other DOT Complany is getting them too? I hope LLE get's some!
According to my source they are do in sometime in September. Being that i work for LLE i can tell you we are not getting any new equipment. The city doesnt want to buy us new buses because we are not located in NYC. The only possible buses we may get are the wheel chair Classics from NYBS. One reason why the buses you rode were so clean is because the drivers at NYBS sweep and clean their own buses. The last time i visited the NYBS facility they had giant sized bottles of Armoral to clean the seats.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
BxM3 3016
Hmmm. Do these operators get paid extra to clean the buses? (probably a dumb question) Also, does management tell them they are responsible for cleaning the buses or do the operators take it upon themselves to clean up?
BIG AL
From everything I've heard about NYBS, they have a lot of pride in their operations, and they treat their employees with respect. This trickles down to the service level...
-Hank
Operators are told to clean their own buses. When you finish training you are given your own broom (I'm not kidding). At Liberty you are given a tire thumper.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
BxM4B 3016
Unbelievable.
BIG AL
What is Armoral?
Armourall is a leather and vinyl cleaner/conditioner. It gives these surfaces a shiny appearance.
Peace,
ANDEE
Amourall is a well known and popular product for cleaning and polishing of vinyl and leather, particular for cars. It is widely available in various sizes in most auto supply stores and perhaps in the (very limited) auto supply section of most supermarkets.
Are the current new MCI buses at NYBS 40 footers or 45 footers? I thought they are 45 footers. Then why is NYBS getting D4000's and not D4501's?
During my travels in NYC, I was always amazed at how clean their equipment was. I've never, ever seen filthy equipment from NYBS. Then I look at the same make of bus in QS and GB colors and I shake my head in disgust.
NYBS buses (including their school buses & mobile classrooms) has always kept their buses spotless and with no body damage. If anyone ever wanted to see a dirty NYBS bus... they'd have to look for them with dried slush on them shortly after a snow storm. Also - You should stop by their depot. By no means should anyone trespass onto the property, but they park the buses outside and it's amazing to see them so neatly parked. Oh - one more thing is that the buses have assigned spaces and they're parked in order by their fleet number. You can see this without going onto the property. If you're travelling N/B on I-95 (just north of the Conner Street Exit) you can see the entire property on your right side.
Wayne
Does anyone here know what NYBS will do with the few remaining '81 Fishbowls when they are retired? It'd sure be a shame to see them go to Nimco....
Fortunately for me, I had no breakdowns, meaning I did not get stuck. All the buses were struggling in today's mid 90s and heat, especially the older L10G buses. Taking a N27 northbound we had to pick up a load of people from the bus in front of us, which broke down,, Orion CNG #200. Our bus #204 was really struggling, even after a little shower cooled things off. Good thing it didn't die out, before I got off.
Later riding an N21 home from Glen Cove to Sea Cliff, I rode the newest Orion CNG to arrive, #392.
But after stopping at a light, the accelerator would not work, as the bus inched forward at 3mph. Seems like the transmission got stuck in neutral. The driver had to shut it down, then start it up again. After that it seemed fine until we stopped at a stop sign, where the same thing happened. Had to shut down and start up again. After that it finally worked, when I got off a few stops after. The driver said the new bus has problems. Also there was no A/C, and I saw the gas gauge down to E. I wished the driver luck and got off.
Well thank God those wicked thunderstorms were over by the time I got on. They hit when I was in Glen Cove and I decided to head inside after seeing a bolt hit 1/4 mile away from me.
Anyway, those Orions are real pieces of crap. Brand new bus 392, already having problems. Told ya they'd be dropping like flies today!
I was coming home from work, coming up Teaneck Raod around 8:15pm in Teaneck. Not fully sunset yet,, but still surprised to see the NJT MCI ahead of me on the 167 didn't have any taillights, just brake/turn/hazard lights. Upon catching up to it, it was D4501 #7444 - then once I got around it, I saw the headlights were indeed on, but all the marker lights were apparently dead (switch or wiring issue). Pretty embarrassing for a 2002 vehicle that's only been in service a short time.
That isn't a dead bus,
On the New Cruiser order, the buses are turned on like RTS.
They have four positions, Off, Day Run, Nite Run and Park. The operator probably had the bus in Day Run, which places the headlights on ONLY. This happenes alot, I've even done it a couple of times by mistake. Nite Run places on EVERYTHING. Park places on EVERYTHING but you can't turn on the bus and off is OFF!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks Trevor
You'd think one of the drivers going the other way would have radioed in to have dispatch tell the driver he was running "dark"...
I'm going to ride it Friday, where do I find it? I know its's in Bay Ridge, but where does it start?
The Bay Ridge terminal is at 4th Avenue and 86th Street (along with S53 and S93).
There is no S93 over ther in brooklyn, just S79 and S53.
Yes, there is. Look at a map.
I have a old Brooklyn Map from 1998, I never new the S93 Line goes over there, Thanks for the info! I have to get a updated map.
you got that right,the S93 limited started around i think before or after the attacks on 9/11 im not sure or its been exactly a year since its been running.good compliment to the S53 just like the S51 now has a compliment service in the S81 limited.go to the transit info bureau on 370 Jay St,you can get all the bus and subway schedules there plus the bus and subway maps as well. just make sure your in the last car of an (A),(C) or (F) train for easier access.
Or the first car, depending on which direction you're coming from.
There is indeed an s93. You just haven't seen a map lately. The route has limited runs (and limited stops) between 86st and the College of Staten Island ('Canterbury Ave') follows the s53 to the VZ, then via the SIE to Clove Rd; Clove to Victory, and Victory to CSI.
-Hank
When did the S93 in Brooklyn take place??
Within the past year. The S93 is the limited version of the S53, and goes to CSI (College of Staten Island) from Brooklyn for those students connecting from Brookyn via B64, B63, B16, and the R Train.
fall pick of 2001. i believe it is only one way service in rush hours for the am students returning in the pm rush to bklyn. probably 2 or 3 buses. mta is not known for big expansions of service.
its at 4th ave and 86th st.take the R train to get there.
It starts at 4th Ave. & 86 st. in Bay Ridge, Bklyn, I do believe the (R) Line runs over there and stops at 86 st., the B16, B64, B8 & B63 Lines run over there also.
I recommend the S79 bus because it's a cool ride across the bridge and usually I transfer to the S78 to go towards St.George! A very nice ride!
I remember riding the S79 about a 1 1/2 years ago, and I rode the entire line from Bay Ridge to Staten Island Mall, it is a very very loonnnnnggggggg Ride, I think about a hour and 1/2.
no just an hour and 10mins.ive ridden it many times to go to the staten island mall myself. and make no mistake about it,the very first day that tunnel to South Ferry on the (1)(9) trains reopen,im gonna take the 1 to South Ferry hop on the boat to St.George,take the S61 to mall and to go back i'll take the S79 to Bay Ridge to get to the (R) train. its gonna be so cool and fun i just know it.
although its still early,if anyone wishes to come with me,i'll be glad to take you with me.but thats not untill at leat october so i'll handle the long wait.
Don't woory tomorrow I will bring my watch, and time exactly how long it will take me to get to SI Mall. I will post it tomorrow. I will start the time as soon as the bus starts moving from the Bay Ridge Station.
I'm planning to ride it tomorrow morning, hopefully it doesn't rain hard like it just did. I hope I can get an Orion suburban on the S79.
-
Jay
Ive been away from driving about 2 years now but i stopped an old buddy doing a bus move 2day . He was telling me how my old line the B8 ( thats leaving Eny Sniff , lol ) has double swings and reliefs now . To the management guys , why did that start? , isnt it currently costing more to do that ? . The long traveling time on the B12 ( Depot ) to the B 15 ( Brookdale ) and giving an operator two swings ?.
A few years ago I saw a NYCT bus that had 3 exit doors, 1 in the front, 1 in the middle, and 1 at the very back, what happened to this bus?? And can someone give me some Technical Stats on it? Thanks
That was the original Orion VI demonstrator. It also had tandem rear axles (with single wheels instead of duals) which really ate up the passenger space. There was a pic of it in an old issue of Bis World mag at an APTA show.
Anybody got a pic of this bus?? Its been so long
On Thursday, June 27th 2002, the first MCI Express coach went into service from Queens Village Depot.
What bus number was it?
2879?
Nope!
2885?
Was it bus #2887? I really do not know if I'm wrong.
What I meant to say was I'm not sure if I'm right but I think it's bus #2887.
Nope!
2882?
#2882 X68
2885?
2880 made her maiden voyage!
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
It was bus #2887.
It was #2880 and Mark is correct.
Yeeee Hah! Now if I could actually get her on the X68 :-)
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Do you pay for your express ride, or show your pass and ride free?
:-)
I pay for my rides courtesy of a monthly unlimited express bus plus card via transitchek.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
On Transitalk.org Bus Roster, it has #2887 there, whats wit that?
If they have #2887 as the first MCI in service, they are incorrect. It was 2880.
ok Thanks for the Info!
I said 2885. I saw it along with 2883 pulling in this AM. I was at QV today on official business at around 9:30-10:00am when I saw the brand spanking new buses.
For those of you keeping up with this stuff, buses 4341 and 4343 were towed out of QV last week (to Nimco??), while lifelong Queens buses 3901, 3941 and 3957 look like they've picked up their last passengers.
Mark
2880, 2883, 2884 and 2885 went into service today. I didn't see any other MCI's on the grounds, but they could have been back by maintenence.
Tom C. told me we just dumped 20 RTS buses, but didn't specify which ones. I'm sure that will be made available soon.
The majority of scraps of late have been shipped to Calverton.
All of the 1985/1986 RTS (3900S 4115 4117 4141 4150 4198 4300s 4429 4484 4499 4501) will be out of QV soon as the Nova/Orion Suburbans will be heading to the Local Lines of QV very shortly.
As far as MCI buses are concerned I did see 2885 in service on the X68 at 41 St and Madison Ave at 6:05pm tonight. It did have a QV Decal on it-looks great.
QV is next for the MCI's then CS. Has the other MCI's returned to their respectable depots? EX: 2869 CS-JAM?
#2885 X68
#630 Q46
Will you post the numbers on here, Brooklyn67?
Well, I saw 2 full tracks of MCI's this morning, but I didn't stop to get the numbers of the buses. Two tracks x 5 buses deep = 10 MCI coaches housed inside the garage. As I said earlier, there may also be (or have been) more back behind maintenance.
I'll let you know the exact numbers of the existing fleet on Monday.
Thanks!
As of Friday morning QV has 2880-2885, 2887-2888, 2890, 2892-2893 for a total of 11 buses
Interesting. One must have been hiding, or in-transit, because there were only 2 tracks with MCI's, and none on any other inside tracks. It's possible that the remaining stray was being outfitted with a radio and farebox in maintenance.
I understand we're to receive 9 more, for a total of 20. Is this correct information?
The official allotment of MCI's for QV is seventeen, so I guess six more are coming your way before Casey gets their's (2897-2907).
**By the way, the D4501's are a HUGE hit on the X63 and X64. I have it on good authority that certain trips on the X64 are SRO before the bus reaches Linden and Farmers! In prior years this would be unheard of--after all the X64 had only THREE runs!! The 64 had just FOUR!!! No extras, no miscellaneous trips, just 3 buses on the 64 and 4 on the 63. Incredible!
I personally rode 2855 on the X63 two Fridays ago and all but 3 rear seats were occupied for a total of 54 passegers (for those of your who are arithmatically challenged MCI's have 57 seats). Again, these are unprecedented numbers for a Queens express route. It is possible that the spike in ridership can be attributed to the DOT strike, but the X63/64 operate independent of JBL or QSC routes. I personally think people have become turned off by the subway and the great "V" train! Anyway, I'll be anxious to see weather or not there will be an MCI impact on the X68.**
Mark
What does SRO stand for? I thought CS was getting #2896-2907? I guess QV took that extra one, huh? LOL!
Standing Room Only.
-Hank
Thanks Hank!
So Far the MTA has only 4 Lines in Brooklyn that are Limited, B6, B44, B46 & B41, they need to expand the service throughout brooklyn, like the B35, B25, B49 & B63, those lines are very busy, but the MTA doesn't see that.
I've been on the 35 many times. It's not possible. The congestion along CHurch ave. will make no diffeence in running times.
Bring back the PCC streetcars on Church Avenue!!!
The 46 limited was always a joke between Empire and the bridge. If you followed a local from that point, you wouls be stuck behind it till it turned at Dekalb.
Same would go for teh 35.
The 25 mirrors the A train almost its whole route - for limited stop Fulton St service hop on the A train.
The 49 could be a good one - benefits from wider streets.
The 63 - 5th Avenue can get just as congested as Church or Malcolm X.
the b49 and the b68 are the only other lines that could have descent limited service. the other lines are on narrow 2 way streets.that would not be any benefit to limited service.
If the reson for the other (crosstown) lines should not have limited routes due to the 2 way streets are to narrow, then an explaination is needed for the B6? The B6 begins its limited service along Ave J which is really narrow, Beford Ave, and Glenwood Rd. I believe the B82 (see my last post) can have limited service along Kings Hwy and Flatlands Av. THat should be MTA's next crosstown limited for Brooklyn.
As for the NORTH and South routes, the B 49 needs a peak direction rush hour,limited service (AM to Manhattan Beach/ PM to Bed - Stuy). While the B 68 just needs a rush hour limited service.
How about the B-82 between Bay Parkway/86th Street and Kings Highway/Flatbush Ave. The TA can bring back the B-5 route for local service between Canal/Cropsey Aves and Kings Highway/Flatbush Ave similar to the Q-20/Q-44
Thank You
Nah, The B82 gets crowded sometimes, but it is not a major line though.
The B-82 is a perfect example of a limited stop line
1-In its current form its a disaster and the TA knows it
2- By implementing Limited Service the B-82 can retain the ridership that developed after the consolidation of the B5/B50
3- By having a local bus service it can better serve the western part of the B-82 route
Thank You
I have to agree the B82 does need a limited service. Maybe brining back the B5 as a limited service route. But terminals would differ though the B5 would run and make limited stops between Rockaway Pky Sta & Midwood - Coney Island Av. If that might seem like a bad idea then keep the route as the B82 and run the limited stops between these terminals, it can help the problem that is troubled by this route. The limited stops should be:
Rockaway Pky Station
Remsen Av/Flatlands Av
Ralph Av/Flatlands Av
Utica Av/Flatlands Av
*limited buses would be routed along Ave K (as it was when the route originally came out) to Kings Hwy making no stops until
Flatbush Av/ Kings Hwy
Nostrand Av/Kings Hwy
Ocean Av/ Kings Hwy (Ave P)
Has anyone ever played this game for PS2?
It features maps of Manhattan - mostly main streets.
In it there is a MTA RTS #8637, which you can use once you unlock it or you will see it on the streets (all the buses are #8637).
From far away, it looks like a normal squareback but is missing the Tailpipe out the top.
It's rear destination sign is signed to M66.
Up close to it, it looks like a slantback.
It has working lights and directionals and horn sounds like the RTSs here in NYC.
The only thing they messed up on is that there is no main entrance (front) and rear door. It looks like the left side of the bus on both sides of it.
I think it was cool.
In Flight Simulator 2002, some airports have a little parked RTS painted like a Hertz bus.
If the MTA takes over the DOT routes the following combinations could happen
1-Triboro Q-19 and Queens Surfice Q-103 into one route
2-Triboro Q-53 and Green Bus Line Q-21 into one route
3-Command B-100 and MTA B-2 into one route
Any comments
Thank You
No, I don't like the 21/53 merger. The 53 was designed to be to Woodside. The Q21 is just like the (A), just in Bus Form. Merging the 21/41 would make more sense
Then you will have duplicate service. The 21/53 merger will result in better service between Liberty Ave and the Rockaways than the current schedule.
Thank You
there is no duplicate service. The 53 makes no stops from the Wildlife refuge to Queens blvd/63rd street. Meanwhile, the 21 is almost never used. I'm serious. There are 2 bses covering the route. I go to midtown frequently (53 to woodside, 7 or LIRR to the city),and it is much faster having no stops. The reason there's no duplicate service is that the 53 is an express bus (pretty much rockaways-woodside; no local travel). In about 50 rides on the 53,I have seen somone board south of 63rd ONCE.
Yeah but then there's no express from Woodside/Elmhurst/Rego Park to the beach. I think the routes should remain seperate.
Q21 serves southern Queens sections while the 53 serves Northern Queens.
It's a great alternative way to get to the Rockaways from Flushing, just hop on the 7 to Woodside or Jackson heights and Q53 to the beach.
Take that away, and I gotta take the long roundabout way on the A train.
And the Q53 is faster than taking the subway.
how unfortuante that now because of that senseless bus strike there IS NO Q53! when i rode that bus for the very first time earlier this year,i enjoyed the ride like crazy,it was awesome. ive been to the Rockaways a couple of times last week and had no choice but to take the 21 because there was no 53.those f***ing bus drivers in those 3 companies have really REALLY PISSED ME OFF!!!not to mention the other 116,000 people who use their services! and all because they want better health benefits!give me a damn brake!if they want better benefits they should quit and go work somewhere else where they'll get the type of benefits they want and the pay they want!but its absoultely stupid and ridiculous to go on strike and screw up all the people who take thier buses!i said it before if i worked for them i would screw them all to kingdom come and take any bus and do any route for 8 hours or whatever just so i could get people to where they wanna go.they could try and do anything they want to me for doing that but not before i beat some sense into them.good thing im not a bus driver or have any plans in the near future to be one.to me helping people get places is all i really give a damn about.i could care less how much i get paid so as i do the one thing i love to do and thats help people in any damn way,shape or form possible!
but on the subject at hand,i think a 21/41 merger would be better than a 21/53 merger. that way you got one route from jamaica to rock pk. and from jamaica to Far Rock. (Q113)
I knew you were about due to spew more venom. You haven't complained for a few days. It is possible to love what you do, support a family and have job security to boot!
But I feel the Q53 "express" is a great way to get to the beach from central Queens. It does well in summer too, so it could be a seasonal route. But at least keep the express in summer, as there's no other quick way to/from the beach for north-central Queens.
The Q53 was actually formed I believe as a substitute to the now abandoned LIRR tracks between Whitepot and where it merges with the Far Rockaway line.
If the tracks get re-activated for subway service, then make the Q53 a local. But for now it should remain express!
Combine the Q11 Woodhaven Blvd With Q21 Cross Bay Blvd. These Two lines combined would provide the local service for the Q53 Express
Either way the Woodhaven/Cross Bay corridor are one of many areas that need restructuring should the MTA take control of the private lines.
For example, the Q18/Q45/Q47/Q67 route restructuring. I like the Q19/Q103 merge. There is also the Q14 & Q34 route restructuring, and plenty more. All you have to do is study the bus map and several other ideas will come to mind.
Mark
Again it duplicates service with the Q-53
A combined Q21/Q53 will add little running time to the current Q-53.
It will also be a Limited Stop run charging the local bus fare
Thank You
I'm sorry. 50 minutes to Woodside is enough for me. Any more, the bus would be pointless. Besides. If someone neded to transfer fromthe 21 top the 11 to get to Queens blvd, they should take the 53. That's how it's designed. The 53 does not run down woodhaven!!!!. It turns right at 63rd drive. This is not like an express train. The route is like an aircraft vs. train. The train (21/11) makes stops betwen points a and b. The plane (53) is direct a-to-b route. A 21/41 combination would be better, giving Rockaway a direct route to Jamaica (far rock has one: the Q113)
Does anyone know how many people use the Q-21 between Rockaway Blvd and Beach 116th Street.
It will no add that much time to your trip and may result in added service. Again you can transfer to the Q 41 to Jamaica
A 21/41 is a duplicate service which is something you want to eliminate
Thank You
Do you see my handle? I know rockaway.
Except for the summer, no one goes on the Q21. t just doesn't happen. This is the 21 service pattern (except for summer):
-There are 2 busseson th line (one stationed @ 116th, one@ the A rain sta).
-About every 90 mins, the buses depart their respective origins simultaniously.
-They swap depots.
Also. How is 21/41 duplicate service? The only place where the buses double up is on Cross Bay Blvd. from Rockaway boulevard to 141ave (not sure exactly, but it's the Staples). While the 21 ends @ Liberty/Rockaway Ave., the Q41 continues to Jamaica. (While the 41 ends at 141, the Q21 ran to Rockaway.)
If you combine the 21/41 together it will still be 2 lines operating to the Rockaways the 21/41 and the 53 which means more buses
If you combine the 21/53 it is one bus line operating to the same location.
This is what i mean by duplicate service
I know that you understand the Rockaways but do you understnad what i mean now
Thank You
th 53 is TCC. The 21 is GBL.
If MTA takes it over, then what? They wont do it. It's allright to have 2 services in the summer, espically with the beach crowd.
Have you ever been on the 21? You don't wanna be on that bus. I have been mugged TWICE on that bus. The bus is empty. After 10, there is no service. I would not be cought dead on that bus anymore. It would be better if 1 bus of the Q24 (21/41---->24) went to Rockaway. Do me a favor, just tell me, were you looking at a bus map and designing the map? Although they rn the same route for a while, they are two sepeate buses (no disrespect)
I am only thinking if the MTA takes over all private bus routes only.What i am looking for is the best service possible within an area that can be done using the limited resources that the MTA will have.
Logic dictates that the Q -21 and Q-53 should be combined.
Look at set up of both routes
The Q -21 operates between Liberty Ave and the Rockaways making all stops. Where does the current Q-21 ridership come from
The Q-53 operates between 63rd Drive and the Rockaways making no stops
Hence two buses doing the same work
Combine them then you have only one bus that is required
Any questions
Thank You
>>Where does the current Q-21 ridership come from<<
Exactly. THere is NO RIDERSHIP. The MTA would be better off abandoning the route.
I rode the Q21 twice in my lifetime (to me this is a lucky oppertunity when you barely can get this bus. It generates people mostly school children during the fall at Rockaway Blvd/ Cross bay Blvd. Most of the the passengers use this route as an alternative to the Q41 and to Broad Channel (smililar to what we see as an "A" train shuttle Bus to Howard Beach.) After Broad channel it is dead for the most part. I can recall about 4 or five people riding this route. Heading from the Rockaway PK to Rockaway Blvd is basically empty or about two people. The problem is this "why wait for a bus that takes 72 min to arrive?", so we know eventually know one is really attracted to this route in the Rockaways and there are more stops on the 21 in the Rockaways it mimics the Q22 to B 116 St. If you want to keep this route I agree that it should be combined with the Q 41 for alternative route to Jamaica. It should also be extended to Q22 terminal by Riis Park ( I don't that last stop on that bus. The other idea would be make a limited stop on the Q 53 at Rockaway Blvd as a replacement for the Q 21, passengers can then transfer for the Q41 or Q112 to Jamaica.
[A 21/41 combination would be better, giving Rockaway a direct route to Jamaica....]
1. Direct? The Q41 zigs and zags everywhere it goes; it's not the least bit direct.
2. Is there any demand for travel between Rockaway Park and Jamaica? For that matter, is there any demand for travel between Howard Beach / Lindenwood and Jamaica? My one ride on the Q41 had 100% turnover at Cross Bay & Liberty.
The Command B-100 merge with the B-2 could get complicated. Firstly, 3 schools are located along the B-100 route (not counting P.S. 236 in Mill Basin). Will the consolidation result in the new route running on Quentin Rd/Fillmore Ave instead of Ave R/Ave S? If not, you're going to have a s--t load of school kids walking an extra long block when the B-100 stopped originally right at their school's door.
Also, during rush hours, both lines seem very crowded right now, and seats are hard to get on the B-100 west of Flatbush Ave in the morning. At least the B-2 starts light out of Kings Plaza, and people can usually get seats all the way until close to Gerritsen Avenue. Would there be short turn buses (re-introduced) starting and terminating at Flatbush Ave during the rush hours?
The school issue is a non-issue. Any school that needs "spotted" service (service that starts at a school and then acts like a regular bus on the route) would get it. Many of these "spotted" trips start out in front of the school, rather than at the nearest on-route bus stop.
As to short-turns, this is but another detail. It should be remembered that at this point, the whole MTA takeover of the "privates" is a pipe dream at best -- we don't even know whether the Mayor was serious about his proposal or whether it was just a trial balloon.
David
The B2 and short turns????? Well anything is possible............
For many years, the B2 route had short-turns at Avenue S & Flatbush Avenue.
David
I guess these are buses that go straight to the depot.
There are still some pullouts to Avenue S in the morning rush (before Kings Plaza opens for the day), but nothing terminates there in the afternoon. When there was more service on the line, years ago, there were short-turns, but there isn't enough service on the line to justify doing it anymore. If memory serves, some of the short-turns did go back in service to Kings Highway, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.
David
there are still short turns on the b2 in the morning rush. i know run 2 does a avenue s trip and leaves there to go back to kings hwy.
Check out this web site about this sleek ETB in the UK...I wish this would come to NYC or Long Island....
http://www.tbus.org.uk/home.htm
Wowwwwwwwwwwwww......
Hott S**t
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
I totally agree with you!
These are so awesome, foward thinking designs that it makes them so appealing to the "car happy" public on Long Island, which is where these puppies should be.
If you we had some these running ETBs running on the longer routes, it would be so awesome....
I agree; what a neat design. Let's hope all the new RTSes are replaced with those some day. I hate to see them go, but with the sleek design, it's the next logical step forward, and not a box!
Today. I started off takeing the F Train to 179 St and that was a R-46. Then I got off and 2 Buses pulled in,One was a New Orion5 CNG #369 on the N24 and the other was #133 on the N22A. I tooked the N22A to the last stop(Roosevelt Field) and it's a nice route past Willis Ave and it tends to go fast going that way.
I did some shoping and around 2 PM I took pics and I did see 2 N92 Buses(I never knew there was a N92). Then the 2:40 N22A to Jamaica came and it was a Diesel Orion5 #620. The 1st W/C Flip Seat was wet and my mom clean the wetness off the seat for me and there was a lady then a guy sat on the seat next to me that was wet but at least they made that seat dryed. Then I took the F Train home.
All the buses I got had A/C and both buses I got on where pretty fast.
ALOT of the N22/N22A and N24 Buses I saw had A/C on and the windows where not open. idk why the N22/N22A and N24 riders allways get the working A/C Buses and while the North Shore Riders get stuck sweating their buts off on a broken A/C Bus? LI Bus must be insame! Give every rider a A/C Bus!
Because the North Shore is hilly and the traffic is terrible. The result is a large strain on the buses, and they overheat. So in order to avoid this, some B/O's shut off the A/C.
Also it is way hotter on the north shore, we don't get those ocean breezes.
To paraphrase what one bus driver said when one of the 300s overheated on the N21 last year, "Everything is fine coming up from the depot, once I get to Glen Cove they always start overheating".
And here is the answer to this damn problem of buses traveling on hilly terrain on the N20/N21 route: ETBs.....it works in San Frans quite nicely and would be a welcome to that route....cleaner and quieter too.....check it out:
http://www.tbus.org.uk/home.htm
I just heard that the S79 will be getting more weekday service during the middays from every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes.
I'm not sure about the weekday evening trips if more service will be added.
15-12 mins is not that much, how about 15 - 7 mins?
Which routes go through Times Square? I am not totally familiar with MTA schedules and was curious as to what routes pass through there.
M6, M7 on Broadway, M10, M20, M27 on 7th ave, M42 and M104 on 42nd St.
To clarify, the way Times Square is set up, it's most natural for traffic on 7th to end up on Broadway and vice versa. So here's what happens:
The SB M6 and M7 run down 7th and end up on Broadway.
The SB M10, M20, and M27 run down Broadway and end up on 7th. (The M27 then turns right one block later, onto 41st.)
The SB M104 runs down Broadway and turns left onto 42nd Street. The NB M104 runs west past Times Square along 42nd Street and turns right onto 8th. The M42 runs along 42nd Street in both directions.
And the city's busiest subway station is underneath all of this.
Thanks for the info; if I'm facing the Sony signs, etc. am I on Broadway? I'm slowly learning more about NYC.
Between 47th (or so) and 42nd, Broadway and 7th are separated by nothing more than a narrow traffic island.
Local buses
M6, M7, M10, M20, M27, M42, M104
Express Buses (Rush Hours only)
x17, x21, x22, x30, x31
Hope this helps...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
Thanks Carlton!
-Fred
Also the M16 terminates a block away at the PA Bus terminal.
M16#9616
Tru that, tru that...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
What is the only MTA route # that is found in all 5 boroughs(as of now)? Now don't get off that chair, and look at a map or bus roster, try to think of the answer off the top of your head(as you're reading this). Tell me how long it took you to figure it out.Oh, and I don't want Q5Merrick to answer this, since it will probably take him 10 seconds.
Um, how about 1? There's no S1 but there is an X1 in Staten Island.
1 (B1, Bx1, Q1, M1, X1 on Staten Island)
2 (B2, Bx2, Q2, M2, X2 on Staten Island)
3 (B3, Bx3, Q3, M3, X3 on Staten Island)
4 (B4, Bx4, Q4, M4, X4 on Staten Island)
14 (B14, Bx14, Q14, M14, X14 on Staten Island)
15 (B15, Bx15, Q15, M15, X15 on Staten Island)
16 (B15, Bx16, Q16, M16, X16 on Staten Island)
If we limit it to local routes:
42 (B42, Bx42, Q42, M42, S42)
David
Damn, you're good :)
Everything is correct, but I'm still deciding whether or not it the Q20 should be include, out of all the "20" routes, the Q20A/B is a confusing route #, but I guess it's okay not to include it.
Was all of this off the top of your head?
I figured out 42 in less than 20 seconds, but I didn't count exactly how long.
Just think of Staten Island and the Bronx, ignore the other three until later.
42...the answer!
-Hank
Did it take you more than 20 seconds to figure that out, Hank? I hope not. People will talk...
:o
Depends on if they get the reference. 42 is THE ANSWER.
-Hank
As of last night. I saw #2892 being deliver to QV under it's own power. I saw it on Queens Blvd and 82 Ave at 6:45 PM going to QV. It looks like this bus is fresh from the paint shop and the bus did not have any Farebox or QV Logos on it. It looked like a foreman was drivering #2892 to QV. #2892 could be in service as soon as next week.
Takes less than a few hours to prep the bus and ready it for service. It's probably on the x68 today.
When the 125 Hybird Electric buses are delivered this fall with half going to Mother Clara Hale & the other half going to Queens Village. What depot(s) will half of the Orions from Mother Clara Hale be going to.
Another depot.
LOL! Good answer!
It's Hybrid not Hybird, LOL!
Leave the guy alone! It's this kind of nonsense that got this board shutdown in the first place! If you don't like the question posed or comment made then ignore it! Busfan asked a legitimate question. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed for it.
On the NYCTA and MaBSTOA fishbowls and old looks, what was the style of letters that was used to spell out NYCTA and MaBSTOA on the top sides of the buses?
Believe it or not, the font IS available for computers!
It is called "Chesapeake" (as in Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad) as they used it on their passenger trains.
You can buy the font from Benn Coifmann, who made it for computer use. His website is:
http://www.railfonts.com
Thank You Very Much Steve.........
Over the last few mornings, I have seen at least 5 Novas running on the X27/37 & X28/38. I have also seen MCIs on the X29 in the morning. Why is the yard dispatcher allowing it?
Maybe the yard dispatch is chummy with the 29 drivers. Is there plans to fully convert the 29 to MCI's?
Yes, there is. The Fall schedules will call for MCIs on the X29.
David
I saw Dennis Franz do this cell phone commerical and he was walking through the airport and the next thing I see are three ex-NYCTA buses (RTS-04 I believe) with those cell ads on the side. Does anybody know are those real ex-NYCTA buses? One of them had chrome wheels and the numbers were in the "OLD" writing style like buses #3809 and #3818 today. I could not get the numbers of all three but they were in the NYCTA style.
[I saw Dennis Franz do this cell phone commerical and he was walking through the airport and the next thing I see are three ex-NYCTA buses (RTS-04 I believe) with those cell ads on the side.]
Dennis Franz doesn't do commercials!!!
I saw another neat one; a Taco Bell commercial in which the Grilled Stuft Burrito was touted as so "heavy" that it literally tipped all vehicles containing its consumers on their sides. Towards the end, I saw what looked to be an LA Metro Grumman 870 or Flx Metro full of burrito-chomping passengers, rolling along up on two wheels!
I think there is a typo of reality here; most TAs do not allow you to eat on their vehicles...
-Fred
Instead of "RTD", it looks like "UP"
Also, there was a Grumman 870 in MTA NYCT colors in "American Pie 2."
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
I took the liberty of posting the roster of the Jamaica Depot BASED ON MY OBSERVATION! Also, I have included ALL of the MCI buses #2850-2878 even though some have not yet reached the depot. Here is the roster:
Jamaica Bus Depot
2850 4127 4576 5159 8960
2851 4128 4577 5160 8961
2852 4129 4578 5161 8962
2853 4130 4579 5162 8963
2854 4214 4580 5163 8964
2855 4215 4581 5164 8965
2856 4217 4582 5165 8966
2857 4218 4584 5166 8967
2858 4344 4585 5167 8968
2859 4345 4587 5168 8969
2860 4346 4589 5169 8970
2861 4347 4590 8939 8971
2862 4349 4592 8940 8972
2863 4351 4594 8941 8973
2864 4352 4595 8942 8974
2865 4354 4596 8943 8975
2866 4554 4597 8944 8976
2867 4555 4598 8945 8977
2868 4556 5145 8946 8978
2869 4558 5146 8947 9051
2870 4559 5147 8948 9053
2871 4560 5148 8949 9054
2872 4561 5149 8950 9055
2873 4564 5150 8951 9056
2874 4565 5151 8952 9065
2875 4567 5152 8953 9070
2876 4568 5153 8954 9072
2877 4569 5154 8955 9073
2878 4570 5155 8956 9262
3807 4571 5156 8957 9263
3818 4572 5157 8958 9264
3824 4575 5158 8959 9265
9266-9269, 9278-9281, 9285, 9291, 9345-9349, 9535-9568
I did it like this because when the bus movements occur, you can keep track by crossing out the number (obviously I messed up the last bunch from bus #9266 on). Also, I'm doing this because we rely on guys like "BIG AL", "Q5Merrick", "Brooklyn67", "DH60F" and "The TOR-nado" for roster info. Over and over and over and over and over again. If you guys like this then I'll THINK about posting the other depots but this roster is based on my observation and BusTalk.
Since the arrival of the MCI's to Jamaica Depot(2875-2879 arrived this week) quite a few 1985 and 1986 GMC RTS's have been scrapped or moved.
3824 was towed to Carlton about 3 weeks ago
4128 had a minor rear-end accident and was driven to Carlton Yard
4130 was towed to Nimco last Friday
4349 was moved to 126th St
4556 was scrapped (Nimco)
4578 was scrapped (Nimco)
4597 is now a paper-weight (scrapped at Nimco)
Bus 4590 is not much longer for this world. either. However, it is still (to my knowledge) at JAM. Mind you, since the last 5 MCI's have come in, it may have been shipped out.
OVERALL, GOOD JOB!!!
Mark
Thanks Mark! I will continue to contribute my observations on this site!
Folks:
I'm headed to the South Beach/Midland Beach area tomorrow from the ferry. Which is a quicker/better trip, the S51 or S52?
the S51 i believe
The S52 because the S51 has to many traffic lights. On the S52 you get a seat and speed. on the S51 you have to hope to get a seat. The good thing about the S51 is that when a light turns green all of them turn green past the Clifton SIRT Station a second later. In
other words just take the S52 unless it is at the evening rush hour where you can catch the S81.
Except the s52 makes a five mile detour along the old s5 route, which greatly negates whatever time savings you may have.
-Hank
Yesterday, 4780 was on the B82. I know that 4780 is an UP bus and the B82 was an UP route. I guess an ENY bus broke down and the Rock Pkwy dispatcher sent out one of the B6 buses to cover..............
B82#4780
San Francisco Muni has been testing two Orion VI hybrids and two Neoplan LF CNGs. Judging by their largely positive experience with Neoplan, I tend to believe that yet another order of Neoplans is headed Muni's way. This will spell the end of the famous 8800 and 8900 series New Flyer D40s and make Muni's diesel fleet about 80% Neoplan. Kudos to the D40s for making it this long in very demanding SF service.
Golden Gate Transit has replaced its four 30-foot Gillig Phantoms with 30-foot RTSs.
Los Angeles County MTA is soliciting bids for some interesting coaches: First, a joint procurement with San Diego for low floor, 40- or 45-foot CNG/Hybrid buses. MTA will take 72 and San Diego will take 20. Second, a 200-unit order for low floor, CNG artics. Maybe MTA does not realize the difficulties of CNG artics after having had an entirely 35- and 40-foot fleet for the past several years. I will be very interested to see who wins this bid (MTA wants options for 400 more, too) and I suspect that MTA will deploy these artics on current and future Metro Rapid lines.
Santa Monica's Big Blue Bus is down to only a small handful of New Looks, thanks to the arrival of NABI low floors.
Las Vegas CAT has four Neoplan low floor artics; more are likely to follow.
Phoenix's Valley Metro is still waiting for its 45-foot NABI LNGs and is putting together specs for replacement artics.
Other things I'm wondering about:
- Who will get AC Transit's contract for lots and lots of 40-foot LFs?
- With the fall of the RTS, what's next for Golden Gate Transit? I foresee lots of rebuilding starting in the next few years...
- Where the hell are Long Beach Transit's Inveros?
- Has NCTD rebuilt their mid-80s Flx Metro B 35096s into Metro Ds?
- What is the fate of San Diego Transit's 200-series 1989 Ikarus 416s?
Any info, insight, or *pictures* (ahem) on any of this would be most appreciated.
Valley Metro Has recived a number of 45 foot Lf NAMBI 4300 - ? They are currently running out of Phoenix Transit South Divison. I Have rode these buses on routes Green (304) 35 & 41. these buses also have 3 wheelchair positions (40 ft NAMBI only has 2) and they have better designed bike racks and GPS/Sat Tracking & messaging systems.
Of course I had my fun pass ready, and headed for the B13. I got to that stop and got the 9580 at 9:40 A.M.. I took it to Palmetto St. From there I took the 8152 on the B52, and I got off at court street. Then I went downstairs to the subway and caught the R-Train. I took it to 86St(just like everyone told me). I got there at 11:10 A.M., and wait for the S79. The 6330 came for me, so I took it. At exactly 11:29 A.M. it left the Bay Ridge Station. I went over the Verrazano Bridge(on the top part). It was a wonderful sight to see, this is better than the B39 over the Willey B.
As I reached Hylan Blvd, I watched a couple of MCI's going the other way, and some of Castleton's 6200's on the S78. Hylan Blvd is very long, but the S79 flies through it because there is barely any delays(I wish the Q58 was like that!). So far I was not bored one bit, because there were so many places I've never seen before.
As reached Richmond Av., I passed under the Staten Island railway, its too bad I didn't see any trains go by. I was finally heading to the core of SI its strange as you look around, a big hill surrounds the whole Mall area, it kind of felt that I was in the middle of nowhere. I passed by Yukon Depot, its pretty big, then I went around the entire Mall, and got off the 6330 at 12.45 P.M. So from 11:29 A.M. to 12:45 P.M. it took 1 hour and 16 minutes, not bad 6330.
I started at Macy's and my first stop was the bathroom(LOL!), because didn't go at all once I left home.
Then I decides to look at some clothing and sneaker stores.
After I spent a couple hours at the mall, I decided to take a walk around Yukon Depot. I've couldn't have choosen a better day to do this trip, the weather was great(unlike the other days earlier this week). I had no problem walking around this huge area, thank God it didn't felt like I was walking around a desert(LOL).
Never have I seen so many MCI's, they were everywhere! I seen a lot of them in that lot, at Forest Hill Rd. There were all behind a long gate. As I walked completely around Yukon, I didn't see that many Yukon Orions inside. Most of them I seen were on the S61 and S79. I could not see any Yukon RTS's inside, where are they?
Later I took a long walk back to SI Mall area, and headed for BEST BUY, God I love that store! A spent a good hour in it, then I decides to head back, but first I made sure I went the Macy's restroom, before I take this long trip again.
At 4:18 P.M, I caught Orion #6331. Why does Yukon's Orions always have scratched up windows? Do they even care? I guess they only care about their MCI's.
As I passed by Yukon again I noticed that all of the MCI's in the lot were gone! How did they get all of those MCI's out of their so quickly? What time do they usually do this?
As I reached Hylan again I seen the 2144 on the X1. Suprisingly, 6331 caught up with it the entire time , and eventually passed it. What happened? I thought X routes were suppose to be fast.
As I went over the Verrazano Bridge(lower path) I took one last look at SI. 6331 got through SI very quickly, but Bklyn, had traffic problems. Those idiot trucks that double park on 86 ST. cause major delays. I got to the Bay Ridge Station at 5:29 P.M.. From 4:18 P.M to 5:29 P.M. #6331 took 1 hour and 11 minutes, very good, despite the traffic delays.
Then I decided to wait for the B16, it took awhile, 2 buses came; RTS #8529 and Newflyer #840, obviously I took #840. I got on it at 5:53 P.M., there were a lot of delay(esp. at Caton Av.) but eventually I got off and took the B12 at Parkside Av. That crappy 4639 just left when I got there(thank God), then 8919(repainted) came for me, so I took that, I got on it at 6:51 P.M.. I took it all the way to Cresent St. to catch my B13. As I was waiting, I said to myself "please let it be something good, please let it be something good". I had a feeling of relief when the 5072 came for me at 8:02 P.M., I felt bad for the people who had to suffer on the 4745 going the other way on the B13. I took the 5072 over "The Big Hill", also known as Cypress Hills street. I got to Palmetto street, and ate at the Pizzeria(Madison St./Myrtle Av). I wanted to ride my R143 L-train, but I figured it was too late. Finally I decided to take the Q55 home, I rode 5056(repainted) at 9:36 P.M., thus ending my journey.
I was going to take the S79 last year, but Yukon got their routes and Orions taken away(by Castleton), and got dumped with GMC's, so I refused to ride the S79 until most of them disappear. A year delay is a long time, but it was worth the wait.
I had a great time today, I hope to visit SI again someday :)
(Note: By the time I finish this post it will by June 29. Damn I took 2 hours to write this!)
-
B13- RTS #9580
B52- RTS #8152
R46 R-Train
S79- Orion #6330
S79- Orion #6331
B16- CNG Newflyer #840
B12- RTS #8919
B13- RTS #5072
Q55- RTS #5056
2 hours?! What are you using? The search and peck method?
BIG AL
The reason it took me so long because I'm tired after that long trip. I almost thought I wouldn't be able to finish that post.
the big hill behind the mall is fresh kills landfill which used to provide yukon and the mall some very horrendous odors. mci buses are dispatched from forest hill road between 2-5pm.
What it really provided were flying trashbags. On a REALLY windy day, garbage, in full bags, would fly from the dump and get snagged in the trees of LaTourette Park. Now it's mostly discarded shopping bags from the nearby shopping centers.
-Hank
Those hills by the mall are the remains of the Fresh Kills Landfill - the parts that are covered over. Luckily I guess it wasn't too hot otherwise you would have the smell of ripe garbage in the air.
Yukon has 4 spots for storing their MCIs. One - inside the depot, two - under the depot across from Costco, 3 - across the street from the depot on Forest Hill Road, and 4 - at the Arthur Kill Annex (Arthur Kill Road and Richmond Avenue). They have received MCIs since 1998, and have around 300+ of them.
The scratchitti on the Orions are a result of the schoolkids who have no life and nothing better to do. The reason it isn't on the MCIs is that they are not run in local service or school specials, unless it is an extreme emergency.
The MCIs in the lot were gone b/c they were on their nightly express runs.
fresh garbage is no longer dumped there.
And hasn't been dumped in that section in several years. The last section to close was the one to the west of the West Shore Expressway, and was in the process of being capped when the terrorist attacks occured.
I also discovered something about 'the smell' six years ago. It wasn't the garbage as much as it was low tide in the creek. When the tide ran out, all the water-covered organisms began to decompose (yes, THAT fast) and the odor was from the bacteria that were eating them. This was learned in Savannah, GA, which has a significant amount of saltmarsh that goes through the same process.
-Hank
excellent,im glad you had a good and fun trip although there was one thing you couldve done since Palmetto St is right there close to Myrtle-Wycoff Aves. you could've just taken the M train all the way down as far as 36th st and wait for the R at any station from Court St.-36th St. instead of taking the B52 to downtown brooklyn.but oh well too late now.heh guess i should've mentioned that before you went.well you know for next time you decide to do it again.
Saw 4567 chugging along the Q4 today. Reminded me of a Steam Engine making it's way along the railroad tracks in the Old West.
Anyway, this slow piece of crap is another clunker that should have been gone along time ago. I know some of you busfans may want it to stay around because of the odd railroad style windows on it, half of which have been replaced making the bus look ridiculous to begin with.
But this bus is actually a horrid to put up with. Besides being slow, it rattles like crazy and rides rather hard. I can still remember some customers boarding it (on days when I managed to get stuck driving it) and saying, "Oh no, not this bus with the ugly windows again."
BIG AL
You got a pic of this bus with the windows (before and after)?
BIG AL - Why do you hate the 6V92 buses so much? I hate the DD Series 50 buses with a passion, they rattle and shake and run like garbage.
And I've seen Orions with a DD Series 50 that smoke up a storm too.
The remaining diesel Orions at LI Bus use a 6V-92 and don't smoke up a storm. Personally the 6V-92 is one of my favorite engines. It is smooth, fast, and sounds great, compared to the clanky, noisy, vibrating like crazy Series 50. Just my 2c.
I've been on that bus twice. Tell me, WHY are the windows different on this bus, but then only on one side? And why the odd coincidence that it has a consecutive bus number (4567)?
This was a test bus. Transit some time down the road before I was hired was testing to see if ALL RTS's should be equipped with these type of windows. However, the windows were deemed to expensive to replace, so no other buses were equpped with them since the plan was dropped. Originally all the windows on 4567 were the railcar type. But the rear ones were destroyed first by school kids pushing them out on school trippers, with the windows smashing into fixed objects. Then around Halloween around 1998 I think, 2 on the right side were smashed by kids throwing rocks at 107th ave and Merrick blvd. That pretty much finished off the ones on the entire right side, but I think the first one is still the railcar type. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the left are still the railcar type.
Don't know why they picked that particular bus. Maybe it is because of the number 4567. Maybe it was just random.
Someone asked me for a picture of it in another post. I don't take pictures of NYCT buses. Since I have to look at them for 8 hours a day and then some, the last thing I want to do is take pictures of them to look at when I get home!
I know the TOR-nado has alot of pictures of NYCT buses on his website, but I don't believe he has one of 4567 either. One day Tor-nado rode with me while I was a bus operator and we looked for 4567, but could never find it. Then as soon as TOR-nado got off my bus, I saw 4567 parked on Springfield Blvd just posing for pictures. But no camera was available. That's the way it goes in the world of buses.
BIG AL
I think those windows are just like the RTS buses in MTA Los Angeles. Can somebody back me up on that?
I finally got a chance to ride one of NYBS's new MCI D4500's and came away very impressed. These truly are the Rolls Royces of transit/commuter buses. I'd give my first born for an opportunity to drive one. I only have one minor gripe and that concerns the horn. Why does a bus this big have such a wimpy horn? It sounds like it belongs more on a go-kart then it does on a bus. Do all MCI D4000 & D4500's have horns like this?
I know what you mean our MCI D4000's and D4501's at New Jersey Transit have that same crappy horn. I hate to honk it. Our Novas have some stupid horns too. Our Flxibles however have a man's horn a nice strong loud sound to scare the crap out of you.
Tony M.
NJT Bus Operator
The buses with the worst horn are the volvo artics. It sometimes gets drowned out by the motor running. I'm sure Tony has experienced this.
T.Beverett
Oh yeah I can name them all, 9200-9224 those buses suck! Hey Troy are your volvo's like this too? All the volvo artics have this low horn, you are better off revving the engine than honking the horn on that crap! LOL.......
Tony Merced
NJT Bus Operator
You are so right!!!!The longest buses have the weakest horns. There were a couple that had newer, louder horns put in, but overall they sucked.
T.Beverett
At Rockland Coach, Our MCI A3s, Gillig Phantoms and Orion 1s that make all little creatures flock like a plague broke out. The MCI 9A and 9Bs are passing and the D4000s DO need air horns like Kevin suggest.
I drove some of Short Lines equipment in charters and they have some air horns that'll make some 18 wheelers look like fisher price toys!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
At Rockland Coach, Our MCI A3s, Gillig Phantoms and Orion 1s HAVE HORNS that make all little creatures flock like a plague broke out. The MCI 9A and 9Bs are passing and the D4000s DO need air horns like Kevin suggest......
The first generation MCI DL3s that the TA ordered have a much stronger sounding horn. All of the newer MCIs have the wimpy sounding horn. I think these buses need some loud air horns.
Peace,
Kevin
I've been wondering about those wimpy horns myself. Alot of times I sit in a MCI at Ulmer Park while I book the buses. I blow the horn to get an operator's attention. But the horn sounds so cheesy, alot of times they don't even hear me. I never have that problem when I blow the RTS's horn. There's nothing more frustrating than driving a lion that roars like a mouse!
BIG AL
The best horns were in the early GM Fishbowls. Now, those were BUS horns!
Call it a chink in the armor.
I keep missing a chance to ride the NYBS MCIs. They come by my neighborhood almost every other weekend, and that's usually when I neither have the money nor the time to get aboard.
My mom, who in any case prefers riding ANY express bus over the nearby #6 subway, reports that the ride is excellent, and the A/C makes it feel like winter inside. The problem she has, though, is the legroom, or lack thereof.
Any confirmation of this?
I sat in the very first seat on the right hand side of the bus. There was plenty of leg room. I can't say what the rest of the bus was like. The seats were covered in the standard NYBS blue and red vinyl. I thought it cheapened the overall look of the bus. Perhaps NYBS finds them easier to keep clean then cloth seats.
My first ride, with Kaybee, on the coach we sat in the last seat before the last row, the legroom seemed to be very comfortable because they seats DO NOT recline.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
What route is near by you? I do see them alot on the BxM9 and sometimes on the Bx7A. Today #1801 did the 11:30 AM Trip to Co Op City on the BxM7. I was going to ride #1801 but I did not know what stop I need to get off
BxM6. The route gets a few D4500s in a week, in addition.
For those of you that never rode a NYBS MCI D4500. I know 1 BXM7 trip that have have them alot. The 11:30 AM Trip to Co Op City is run mainly by a MCI D4500 #1801.
idk about the BXM6 but they used to run on the BXM6 often before they got the Ornage LED Signs. Since then,They been running often on the BXM9 and 1 runs often on the BXM7 outside of Rush Hour
Is New York Bus Service still operating Classics on the weekends? If so, are they found on certain routes?
Jim D.
Yes. NYBS Runs Classics on ALOT of their Routes on Weekends.
One Weekend I saw a GM New Look #1504 on the BXM6 going southbound with people in it and it was signed up as "PARKCHESTER"
Wow...they still use New Looks? Awesome! Canada models, I assume? How old are they?
Fred,
Yes, they're still around and like every NYBS bus, they look, feel and sound great. Also - yes they are GMDD (Canadian) buses from 1981/2.
Their model desingation is T8H-5308A. For years I thought they would be S8H-5304A since they're suburbans and not transits. However a while back a fellow BusTalker explained that GM will designate a bus as transit model if it doesn't have underfloor storage - even if it has other suburban features like high-backed seats, raised platform, one door and overhead racks.
Wayne
Does NYBS have plans to retire them in the near future?
Wow...great information. I always thought the suburban transits were neat; I have a Corgi Fishbowl in the NYBS scheme, right down to the lettering...only it is a Lionel City Bus Service. It does, however, have "NEW YORK" on the destination sign. It looks as if the Corgi folks tried to make it look like a GMDD Canada model; it has tri-color lights in back, no A/C, and a black front bumper.
-F.
Yup! NYBS still got GM New Looks. Those are 1981 GM New Looks. They only run doing rush hours but I was verry luckly to see it doing weekend service. :)
If you want to ride them. Go to 23 St and Madison Ave doing PM Rush Hour and wait for 1 to come. And the New Looks don't have much time to live anymore since the MCI D4000's would be comming this fall to Replace the GM New Looks and GM/MCI Classics. Boy! I would miss them both!
Another place to see the New Looks VERY often is Parkchester. I walk by them daily on the way to the train station. Best Bet: unionport road, at starling ave , where they park, before proceeding to Met. Oval.
Even on Weekends the New Looks are often on the BXM6?
Unfortunately, there is no service to parkchester on weekends. NYBS operates to pkchtr weekdays only.
As recording to the schdele on NYBS Website. There is Weekend service to Parkchester at :00 Past the Hour going northbound and southbound
They are not used on the weekends. During the week they are used for trippers only (1 trip in the morning and 1 in the evening. If they were used on the weekend I would see them since I am on 5th ad Madison every Saturday and Sunday. Only the MCI Classics and MCI D4500s are used on weekends.
Peace,
Kevin
Well. I saw a New Look on the BXM6 on a Satuarday as I said in the other post. I saw that New Look on the BXM6 at around 9:30 AM back a few months ago
Anything is possible but its highly unlikely to see a GM on the weekend. I wouldnt waste my time looking for one on the weekend because you will be waiting til Monday morning.
Peace,
Kevin
Do you know how many GM Fishbowls NYBS still has in service? I know two of them were involved in an accident several months ago.
They were fixed. They are all in service. Thats doesnt mean you are guaranteed to see all 20 on any given day.
Peace,
Kevin
Ouch! I hope I can get up there before then. What time in the fall? Will anyone preserve any of them?
I am planning sometime in two weeks an all bus trip starting at Nostrand Av/Flatbush Av in Brooklyn to Staten Island Mall. I must be able to at least touch every boro and Norfolk & Suffolk county. The only catch is that I can not use the same route. i know that Queens is going to be challenging but can anyone help me?
Its gonna be hard to hit norfolk county.......that's in VIRGINIA!!!!!!
i think you meant Nassau county and suffolk is way at the end of the island,why go there?
and i think i might be able to help ya,just lay out exactly how where you wanna go in order starting at Flatbush/Nostrand Aves and ending at the SI Mall.heh,im very good at this kinda stuff
Thanks...
I was thinking B 41 or B 103 to Jay St; B 51 to City Hall. M 1 to 125 St;
Bx 15 to W. Tremont (I believe that what it is); Bx 40/42 to W Farms.
Q 44 to Jamiaca; (now the only problem is how to get to N6 without walking to the terminal?) N6 to Hempstead. That is what I have so far but it could get better? and more interesting?
P.S. i did meant to say Nassau! laughs
[Q 44 to Jamiaca; (now the only problem is how to get to N6 without walking to the terminal?)]
Assuming you will have an unlimited ride Metrocard, get off the Q44 at Sutphin & Archer Avenues and take any Green Bus Line bus (except the Q40) to the 165th Street Terminal to transfer to the N6.
i duuno,are you planning to do this in one whole DAY!? i find doing all this very impossible especially when you have to wait for the buses then the travel times from one place to the other,not to mention both LIBus and Suffolk buses run every hour on all routes well Suffolk does,the N20,79 are every hour,the 19 is every half hour and so on.
It depends how long a "day" is! Either itinerary could be done in one day because the suburban routes will be done first, while they are still running. Even if B49 Limited gets to Brooklyn and Staten Island late at night, at least those lines run more frequently and later in to the night than the Long Island buses (even though the N-6 runs all night, I believe).
yeah the N6 is the only 24 hour 7 day a week route LIBus has.do people REALLY take the N6 during the late nights? i find that hard to believe.
I don't know, but I also heard that the N-4 ran 24 hours a day many years ago, but the overnight service was discontinued. Can anyone out there verify that?
well that was then,this is now,only the N6 runs 24/7,i got the schedule to prove it too. although i really think there really isnt any need for late night service,maybe they should discontinue it.
I am not disputing the fact that the N-6 is the only LI Bus route that runs 24/7. I am just asking if anyone can confirm whether the N-4 ran 24/7 at one time? Just curious!
N4 service ran at least until midnight in the mid '70's. That's the last time I had any need to use that line. FWIW - I don't think that the N4 and N6 were the only lines to run late into the night at that time. Seems to me the line between Hicksville and Jamaica also had at least late night if not - 24X7 - service.
Man I wish I had some vintage LI Bus schedules!!!
Wonder if bus service was better in Sea Cliff and Glen Cove 30 years ago than it is today?
I know when my mother was growing up in Wantagh in the 60s she said the bus to Jones beach ran all day and night in summer. Today there's just about a pitiful 3 runs going and 3 runs going back to Wantagh from the beach.
Also there used to be the JB24 that ran from Jamaica to Jones Beach, but that was discontinued.
Only route that has halfway decent service to Jones Beach is the run from Freeport. But it's a crappy area. I'd rather just take the N15 to Long Beach it's better anyway.
It's quite sad to this day how Moses has suceeded in keeping transit riders from his Jones Beach. :-(
Service in the '70's to Glen Cove area wasn't that all freqent even back then. But it may have been more reliable considering that most of the runs seemed to have older Flxible eqpt. assigned to them.
I don't recall the JB24, but I can tell you that Up into the '80's, There was bus service provided by Walter's Transit between Port Authority and Robert Moses on Summer Weekends. They used Fishbowls and MC7s and I think they may have had intermediate stops in Flushing and Astoria.
Sometime prior to the mid 1960s, Bee Line and Schenck and a few other lines (mostly from Nassau County and all now absorbed into MSBA) offered connecting bus service to Jones Beach from various LIRR stations. The most popular service was with a connection from Freeport. I used that connection before I got my drivers license. I caught that bus from the train and with cooler full of beer and soda, we were off for a good day.
Most of the equipment as I recall consisted of non-air conditioned Fishbowls. They weren're really built for highway speeds and their engines were screaming as they'd get to their governed speeds on the Meadowbrook Parkway. But nobody cared so long as the windows opened and the breeze came in. There were a ton of buses assigned to that route and the wait was very short betwen buses bount between Freeport and the beach. How I miss those days!!
i got the LI Bus schedules for all the bus routes. just call or go to thier HQ and ask for them. they also have them in a small place in front of the N15 stop at RF.just hope a driver is in there resting.
Also our friend does not say how far into Suffolk County he wishes to visit. In order to have any chance of completing the itinerary he shouldn't go further than Huntington (Walt Whitman Mall) on the North Shore and Babylon / Amityville on the South Shore.
If he intends to go the whole length of the County, ie Greenport and Montauk Point, he better pack a sleeping bag because I belive Long Island is about 125 miles long from the East River to Montauk. Double that mileage and there is no way that you can average 10 mph on public transit when you have to factor in waiting for connections.
No. I am just trying to touch Suffolk county. Thou that might be a good idea for a future bus trip.
B49 LTD
I am going to attempt, after I finalize a route plan, I will tell post my plan on Bustalk. but I can tell you now it is going to happen on a weekday.
i got a better idea.the B41 to Jay St,then B51 to City Hall,then M103 to any crosstown route from 23rd st and above to 6th Ave,then M5 to GWB,then Bx36 to West Farms Sq.then Q44 to Jamaica Center,then Q6,8,9,or 41 to 165th terminal,then N4
to Freeport,then N19 to Babylon,then S29 to Walt Whitman Mall,then N79 to Roosevelt Field,then N22 or 24 back to Jamaica and Hillside Ave after 188 st. then the Q17 to Merrick Blvd and Jamaica Ave,then Q54 to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza,then B44 to St. Johns Pl,then B45 to Atlantic Ave.then B63 to 86th and 4th Ave and finally the S79 to Staten Island Mall.thats the best way i could come up with so enjoy the ride.and do leave REALLY early if your planning to do all this in one day.
Thanks I will put this in my suggestion box. And I am still open for more ideas.....
i got a better idea.the B41 to Jay St,then B51 to City Hall,then M103 to any crosstown route from 23rd st and above to 6th Ave,then M5 to GWB,then Bx36 to West Farms Sq.then Q44 to Jamaica Center,then Q6,8,9,or 41 to 165th terminal,then N4
to Freeport,then N19 to Babylon,then S29 to Walt Whitman Mall,then N79 to Roosevelt Field,then N22 or 24 back to Jamaica and Hillside Ave after 188 st. then the Q17 to Merrick Blvd and Jamaica Ave,then Q54 to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza,then B44 to St. Johns Pl,then B45 to Atlantic Ave.then B63 to 86th and 4th Ave and finally the S79 to Staten Island <<<< V Train
Ill add that u get off the ist stop in Staten Island , take the S53 back to 92nd st ,hop the B8 to the B 49 , B44 ,B41 back home .
That is my plan to come back of course!
B49 LTD
Get off the Q44 at 14th Ave & Parsons Bl.& x-fer to the Q76 heading towards 165th Street Term(actually you can get off the 76 at Francis Lewis and Hillside and get the N6 in front of the .99 store across from the shopping center)
The best way to start would be to take the Q-35 to the Q-22. Then take the N-32 from Far Rockaway to Lynbrook (Lynbrook is in Nassau County). Then take the N-4 to Freeport, then the N-19 to Babylon (Babylon is in Suffolk County). Then take the S-29 up to the Walt Whitman Mall in South Huntington. Then take the N-79 to Hicksville, then the N-20 to Flushing. Then the Q-44 or the QBX-1 to the Bronx. If you want me to continue, just say the word.
P.S. I hope I got all of theose route numbers right. I'm going by memory.
Please continue this might be more interesting then my first idea! I want to know, since I never ran Suffolk transit before, how much is the fare and can I use a metrocard? If I can not I am trying to keep it as a one "unlimited" metrocard trip.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, Suffolk Transit does not accept MetroCards. If you are limiting the day to an unlimited ride MetroCard, then you can forget about the S-29/N-79 segment. From Babylon, there is an LI Bus (Either N-54 or N-55) that goes to Hempstead. From Hempstead, you can take the N-6 to Jamaica, then the Q-44 to the Bronx. You can exit the Q-44 at the Hugh Grant Circle (Parkchester), then take the Bx-36 to 181st-Amsterdam in Manhattan. Then the M101 down to anywhere the M-103 comes in. Then you take the M-103 to Canal-Bowery and get the B-51. Take the B-51 to Borough Hall, then the B-37 down to 3rd Ave-86th Street, walk one block over to 4th Ave for the S-53 or S-79 to go to Staten Island.
If you are doing this trip on a Saturday, the B-51 doesn't run. You would have to walk over to 2nd Ave in Manhattan from anywhere along the 3rd ave segment of the M-101, and take the M-15 down to Delancey Street. Then the B-39 to Williamsburgh Bridge Plaza, then walk a couple of blocks to Broadway & Driggs Ave, take the B-61 to the Borough Hall area for the B-37 or to Atlantic Ave for the B-63, which will take you to 5th Ave-86th Street.
If you are doing this trip on a Sunday, it can't be done because you would have to take the SAME route in and out of Suffolk County.
Good luck!
To clarify on that last note and an important note to remember, Suffolk Transit doesn't operate on Sundays.
Right you are! I knew I forgot one detail. Except that I don't think that B-49 Ltd. was going to take Suffolk Transit because they do not accept MetroCards. The only other option was for him/her to take the N-19 TO Babylon and the N-55(or 54, I forgot exactly which) FROM Babylon. He/she did not want to ride any route more than once. On Sundays, only the N-19 runs to Babylon, so the trip could not be done on Sundays.
if its from Babylon its neither the N54 or 55.the 54 goes to Amityville,the 55 ends at the Sunrise Mall.he/she will have to take the N72 from Babylon to Hempstead which i add the trip takes about an hour and the 72 runs every 30mins.
Thank you for that correction. I was going by memory, and I knew that one of those routes went to Suffolk County, I confused Amityville with Babylon. Sorry! It's been a while since I've ridden those lines.
its ok.and on a similar note when i stay over in long beach for awhile i plan on taking two trips to 2 malls each day in suffolk county.starting with the South Shore Mall which i never been to before.im gonna take the N15 to Hempstead,then the 72 to Babylon,S42 to the south shore mall,scope it out then take the S45 to Brentwood,3D
to Smith Haven Mall,scope that out too since ive been there 3 times before,S62 to Happuage,S54 to Walt Whitman Mall and stay there awhile since i'd have just missed the N79,then N79 to Roosevelt Field then N15 back to Long Beach.my 2nd trip involves going to the Melville Mall and the Sun Vet Mall.15 to hempstead,54 to amityville,S1 to Melville Mall,then to Walt Whitman Mall,S54 to Sun Vet Mall and back to Walt Whitman,then 79 to roosevelt field and 15 to LB.Im gonna enjoy the trip on the S54 mostly because it passes through Commack and since i used to stay there for a few days many times i absolutely loved it.i miss it so much.everything was there,a macy's,target,king kullen super market,modells,toys r us,a white castle to eat,god i miss it all so much. v.v
the n55 and n54 do not go to babylon. the n54 operates to amitiyville(mon-sat), the N55 runs to Sunrise Mall. The N72 runs to babylon(mon-sat only)
Yes, I know. If you look through this thread, I was corrected last night by "V Train M20 Bus".
yep thats me! ^.^ the person who knows everything and how to get to where in Long Island,NYC,Northern New Jersey,parts of Westchester,and Miami,FL.im the best
just remember he mentioned the QBX1,dont count on that bus running if its company representitive,Queens Surface corp. is still on strike
You are correct. I forgot that minor detail. However, the itinerary was changed to go to Jamaica after B49 Limited expressed the desire to use only MetroCards. The Q-44 is the only option to the Bronx from Jamaica.
Why does the destination sign on this bus remind me of the 1982 GMC RTS-04 fleet (#1659-1858 and #2580-2704). Can the sign be fixed to the regular way like it's friends (#4300-4428 and #4430-4599)?
#4429 has quite a history. I don't think I want to get into it however. Maybe Big Al would care to elaborate on the bus, and its nickname.
Okay, thanks for your info Brooklyn67.
I always was curious to know exactly why this bus was banished from 146 St/Mother Hale (MCH had 4406-4448 before they went 100% Orion in 1999). Bus 4429 was moved to QV in the mid-1990's. I'm anxious to hear about it's history as well.
Mark
Like Brooklyn67 said, 4429 does have a history, and unfortunately it is not good.
First the sign: it reminds you of a 1982 RTS Destination sign, because it is a 1982 sign. The original went bad sometime when it was in Manhattan and was replaced by that sign which was probably taken from a scrapped 1982. Will it be replaced. Only unless it goes bad again. Personally, I think that 1982 year is the clearest sign out of all the RTS's built in the 1980's. All the GMC's should have those signs.
This bus, 4429 was shipped to Q.V. about 1 year after I left that depot. I left for Jamaica depot in 1995. Legend has it, (and I believe this legend is based on absolute truth) that the bus was involved in 3 separate fatalities. It was also involved in numerous accidents, none of which were deemed mechanical failure. It got so bad, the bus operators literally thought the bus was cursed and nobody wanted to drive it. I believe, although I'm not positive that the bus was with Amsterdam depot at the time. Finally, transit got fed up with the anomosity the bus was causing, so they shipped it off to the land far far away, Queens, where nobody in Mabstoa would have to see it again. This was the only 4400 series RTS to run in Queens for about 4 years until a couple of others made it over to QV also around the year 2000.
BIG AL
Creepy stuff, man.
And to those of you that do not know 4429 has been officially nicknamed "The Death Bus" to the QV Operators. 4484 4499 were the other 2 buses that have made it to Queens with 4429. I assume that they're still at QV to this day.
#4499 Q46
#4429 Q88
#4484 Q30
Yes those three are still there, including the "Death Bus" I had no idea about that bus' history
Mark
Thanks BIG AL! I'll stay off that bus for now!
Do you think 4429 will hang around long enough to get refitted with one of the crappy series 50 engines? I know they do all that hoky stuff at Queens Village.
Well here's a quick answer to that question, there is no current plans to repower ANY of the 4000 Series RTS buses as they are basically in the plan for replacement in the next 5 years!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Actually Trevor, they are all supposed to be replaced in the next 5 months. Of course, I don't really believe this will happen. However, Transit's plan is to have all remaining buses without the series 50 engine or non cleanair type buses off the road by the end of 2002.
BIG AL
That's a shame. I be sorry to see #3818 go. Truth be told, I'll miss all the 6V-92's. I guess now that production has ceased on the RTS's, the city is already working to phase them out. Even though I liked the fishbowls much better, I consider the Orions a sorry replacement for the RTS at best. It's a BOX!
I guess now that production has ceased on the RTS's, the city is already working to phase them out.
I think it might be a little early to say this. As of right now, only the oldest RTSs in the worst condition (generally) are being retired in favor of new buses. The process of retiring RTSs began long before the model was discontinued; pretty much all of the Nova RTSs 8750 and up (as well as the 4900-5249 batch) replaced older GMC RTSs. Older RTSs are biting the dust because they are older buses, not RTSs. It's going to be a LONG time before the TA thinks about "phasing out" the RTS.
It won't be _that_ long. These Nova's are NOT the 18-year work-horse that the GM or TMC proved to be. These are THE shottiest, sorry excuse for a bus that I've driven, and to whoever ordered these buses- I hope flipping burgers in a brown and orange uniform serves the same justice as your pocket padding at the expense of the NYC taxpayers.
There are no plans to repower 4300-4899 RTS buses anytime soon.
....or ever
Interesting story. I always thought it was strange the 4429 was in Queens while it's sisters were still at OA depots.
Wayne
4436-37-39-52-41-44-40-52-58-69 and i know i missed some are all at flatbush depot
i just read in one of the picture captions describing the location of the picture about a Westchester Mall.where is this mall and what bus routes go there?
U talking about the Galleria ?
There's also The Westchester.
Hold on a second, before I click that link, I have to get my nose up in the air and raise my eyebrows...ok...now, honey, be a dear and hand me my smoking jacket and pipe please!
LOL!
yeah yeah!thats the one i saw!what bus can i take to get there! i wanna go there! one more mall in westchester to go to besides the Jefferson Valley Mall!someone please tell me!
Is that the same one as the one in Yonkers by 95?
Firstly, I assume you mean 87 because 95 does not go anywhere near Yonkers. Secondly, the mall off of 87 in Yonkers is the "Cross County" mall. It's an interesting place because they never enclosed it, it's still all outdoors!
Do buses actually go there? I always see Rolls Royces and stretch limos pulling up, I don't think that they let "bus riders" inside that place!
but its a mall for pete's sake not letting bus riders in is pure ludicrious,i never heard something like that before.im gonna call Bee-Line and find out
I'm only kidding about that! However, it is a very UPSCALE mall. It makes The Mall at Short Hills look like the "Fulton Mall" in downtown Brooklyn. If you like "regular" malls you are probably going to hate "The Westchester" unless you are are financially well-off or a "wanabee".
man,i love malls to the core.the only types of malls i dont like are the ones like Walt Whitman or the Broadway Malls in LI and the Bergen in NJ.every other mall is way past cool to me.and i just read that i should take the 12 or 13 to Westchester Ave and Paulding St.so that answers on how im gonna get there.now the question is...when should i go...? -insert jeopardy tune here-
Yeah LI has several crummy malls. I especially dispise Broadway, because no bus stops on mall property. They used to have a terminal there but they were kicked out. Now you either have to walk from Hicksville LIRR, or take an N20 or 48/49 that will drop you off on Rt 106/107. And considering the mall is low end, and lacking, they would benefit from a terminal there.
Walt Whitman has more to choose from, but is very upscale and keeps moving the bus stop further from the mall entrance. No food court, but still has way more places to eat than Short Hills(the worst mall ever!)
Roosevelt Field is probably the easiest accessible of the larger LI Malls. Bus stop is not at mall entrance, but a short walk via garage or outside walk isn't too bad. I used to like this mall, but lately there's been alot of riff-raff going on.
Sunrise Mall, haven't been there in awhile, but you can get there with alot of the south shore bus routes and 80/81 from Hicksville.
The stop is on the edge of the parking lot. This mall hasn't been doing too well since the movies left, but they are adding a food court.
Both Smith Haven and South Shore are nice mid-scale malls I haven't been too in awhile, but both are quite nice and accessible to Suffolk transit.
As far as Green Acres is concerned, forgettaboutit! It makes RF's riff-raff seem like child's play.
NJ has LI beat when it comes to malls though. I've been to Short Hills, Willowbrook, and Garden State Plaza. Yeah GSP is the best though, real large and spacious, big variety of stores, a Borders, and a super food court. Willowbrook is pretty good too, nice food court and stores, but bus stop is abit far from mall entrance.
Short Hills, well that place sucks. Boring and super upscale, noses high in the air over there.
I hope to visit Freehold raceway mall and Paramus Park someday, as well as Livingston mall. Main turn offs of a mall to me are
1)real lousy transit access
2)too much riff-raff
3)not enough store variety
4)lack of a food court
HOw do you get to Garden State Plaza by NJ Transit from NYC?
I take the A to 175th street, and walk up the ramp directly connecting to the GWB bus terminal at the north end of the station. From there I take the 171 bus, to the mall. The 171 goes straight down route 4 and most trips stop in the Garden State Plaza mall bus stop, a mere 1 minute walk away from mall entrance. Some 171 trips stop only at Rt4 in front of the mall, having to cross a bridge over Rt4 to the mall. It used to be this way all the time until the reconstruction was finished.
The 175 also goes to the GSP mall from GWB, but it veers off Rt.4 in Teaneck and takes more local roads. It is slower with the more stops and lights.
From PABT on 42nd street you can take the 163, but the ride can be over an hour long. Lincoln tunnel can be slow, then you stop at every freakin light in Union City, and go through many towns along the way. Once at Hasbrook heights and north it is a nice ride. But Union City,yuck. Now if the 163 bypassed Union City (like I think it should) maybe I'd take it instead. But now that the 171 stops in the mall, I just do that.
Most 163's actually do bypass Union City. It's just the ones going to GSP that go through. The Ridgewood locals and Turnpike expresses bypass UC but do not stop *at* GSP. They do, however, run on Passaic St, which is a short walk to the mall (you can see it from Passaic St. Well, behind the trees, anyway...)
Oh yeah must I not forget Newport Center in Jersey City. Easily accessible by PATH (I know it's not a bus)good food court. Dept stores are kinda small but it's still I nice mall.
From what I remember they had Nathans, and Arby's (I think).
I miss Arby's, we used to have em out on LI, man their roast beef was the best!
yeah,Newport Center is the best,i like it tons.i saw the Arby's there last week when i went,damn i havnt eaten there in years!the only arby's i remember eating at was the one on Northern Blvd....or is that Junction Blvd,agh cant remember! <.< >.> btw,which NJT routes go there,i know the 86 does,but what others,and i mean full time not just part time like rush hours or select trips only.ive also seen buses of another company thats not NJT,who are they? the buses are painted white with a green logo on it that says the name of the company but i couldnt make it out.
[btw,which NJT routes go there,i know the 86 does,but what others,and i mean full time not just part time like rush hours or select trips only.ive also seen buses of another company thats not NJT,who are they? the buses are painted white with a green logo on it that says the name of the company but i couldnt make it out.]
Lafayette & Greenville is the company you are thinking of. Its regular locals and route 5/6 and 16 buses serve Newport Mall. I think some (but not most) of the Montgomery & Westside buses also serve the Mall.
do they have a website i can look at?
Don't even get me started on this ...
The private "IBOA" lines in Jersey City are atrocious when it comes to public information! Schedules simply don't exist. At least I've never seen any. No maps. Even at Journal Square there are no schedules! Most routes don't have numbers, and you'll be lucky if the drivers speak English!
You want to look at a website for Lafayette and Greenville Bus Corp?
Excuse me while I crack up hysterically!
well excuse me for asking damnit!you dont have to sound like a damn jerk about it ya know!!
I am sure Jersey Devil was not directing his frustration at you but at the independent bus operators. The inability to get schedule and route info in Hudson and Essex Counties from non-NJ Transit operators is unexcusable. I agree with Jersy Devil's comments and have experienced the same frustrations myself.
As an aside, when I moved to Jersey City back in 1997, I recollect writing to Lafayette & Greenville for timetables and actually receiving them! For those interested, I believe the address is L & G Bus Co.; 119 Merritt Street; Jersey City, NJ 07305
Yes, I wasn't yelling at you! Sorry if it seemed like that.
From NYC though PATH is the best way to Newport Centre. Man I gotta check that place out again. The JC waterfront area is nice too. Sadly, the great view of the Twin towers is gone. :-(
[Yeah LI has several crummy malls. I especially dispise Broadway, because no bus stops on mall property. They used to have a terminal there but they were kicked out.]
Mall owners tend to be hostile to public transportation; after all, it's tough to take a mattress or a television home by bus. In the case of Broadway Mall, the owners justified evicting L.I. Bus by claiming that bus passengers used the mall as a transfer point rather than a shopping destination. (Of course, after the evictions, up to one third of the stores had to close because their employees couldn't get to work!!)
AND, don't forget the mall tragedy in the Buffalo area a few years back: That mall, like most others nearby, actually had a no-public-buses-on-the-property clause in its leases, in order to "guarantee" room in the parking lots for Canadian tour buses. As a result, the public buses stopped outside the mall, and passengers had to walk across a high-speed roadway - without traffic lights - to get to and from the mall. As a result, young woman was killed crossing the road enroute to her job in the mall. The mall owners tried to blame the Niagara Frontier Transit Authority ("It's not our fault that they won't serve our mall"); NFTA managed to prove that it had been trying to get the buses on mall property for 8 years prior to the incident.
I read about that here; it is terrible that lady had to give her life for a bunch of crumbs who thought public transit was an "eyesore". It's a part of life, and how we live!
We have a similar situation in nearby Salem, although not as severe; I don't know the details, but my commute has been altered as well. Being that I live there now, it is necessary for me to take the 81 from Downtown and transfer over to the 92 at the Goodwill to go west. For the many people on that route who work at the GW, it was front door service and was also convenient for elderly patrons en route to the VA.
However, the stop was moved from the storefront...and the buses must now do a 180 directly into the outer edge of the parking lot! This didn't dawn on me until it rained the other day, but not only do those poor folks have to walk across a busy parking lot to get to the shopping center, but they must also soak and freeze in the process. Oh yes, and it also creates a potential traffic hazard if people in cars aren't wise to where the buses must go.
My gather is that our TA had nothing to do with it but was at the mercy of the property owners, even though they are providing their employees and customers with a good service.
Yeah these malls can treat bus riders quite lousy. The interesting thing is, the malls that kick buses out, can be quite low scale. Broadway mall is downscale, and so is Bergen Mall in NJ (actually did NJT win that battle?)
The suprising thing about Short Hills in NJ though, is that the bus stops quite close to the entrance. It is not neccesarily an upscale vs downscale thing, as much as it has to do with the mall owners attitudes about public transportation. The Rouse company I know is not too fond of public transportation. At SI Mall the bus stops on the outer ring road around the mall, and at Willowbrook the bus stops on the outer edge of the parking lot (both shoppers stops and park and ride). Both malls are owned by Rouse.
I think a Federal Law should be passed mandating that bus stops are placed no more than 20 feet from a mall entrance. Transit riders should have just as easy access to the mall as car drivers.
i agree 100% with ya there.
You're damned right they should! Transit riders should NOT be treated like trash. They are consumers too, and if the malls want to lose their business due to their own indifference, to hell with them.
The downscale theory is true; the place I am having trouble with in Salem is a small strip mall with a Goodwill as its lone anchor (and perhaps its only tenant). It seems to me that if GW owned or rented the space, they would be strongly for front-door service; most of their clientele and staff (if not all of them) ride the bus.
I just don't understand it; I will research the subject and let you know what I find out is going on here.
Paramus Park Mall isnt all to bad,the last time i went there,whice only my 2nd time,it looked way different than the first time i went.its worth the trip.i like Sunrise Mall alot.good stores and the best one of em all...SUNCOAST!! N19,54,55,71,80,81,S20 and S33 are the routes that go there.who knows when i'll be going to Livingston Mall for the first time ever,hope its soon.the bus stops at Walt Whitman are pretty close to the entrance,but that mall is really crappy.only has a burger king and baskin robins to eat and something else.the only big highlight there is Bloomingdales.although the go pro sports store and EB are the only stores that attract me there.
Roosevelt Field mall has to be THE best mall there is.that mall is HUGE!whoever designed it is a pure genius!although we all know that there is one mall better than that,THE 2nd largest mall in the country....Palisades Center Mall! god i cant wait to go there!and the Nanuet Mall too.
Must be nice to still have a Baskin Robbins; ours went out of business due to no activity. We sure could use one with our near-triple digit temperatures!
Looking at the bright side, those of us smart enough to use transit may enjoy the strong running Thermo-Kings in our Gilligs. Those things will literally freeze you out of the bus!
I walked around the mall with a friend (for exercise) about 3 weeks ago. The mall is still nice with a large food court. However the multiplex cinema ( 8 screens ?) recently closed and Stern's closed with the consolidation with Macy's. No one has taken over the Stern's building and the mall has put a large Merry-go-round in front of the entrance from the mall to try and hide the metal gates.
No news on what will replace either Stern's or the movies.
As far as the Cinema is concerned, it is only open evenings. So if you were there during the day, it would have been closed. If it did close for good, it's a shame. I guess this is all the effects of our slowing economy.
John, my friend and I walked at about 8PM. I looked at the marquee and it was blank but there was light at the candy stand. At this instant one of the mall security guards came out of the theather and I asked if they were closed...He said "where have you been, they've been gone for a month". Taking the closing back to about 5/1/02. No plans yet for the space.
So it really did close. I do believe the chain was bought out, and most of the Cineplex theaters closed I guess.
Have you ever been to Palisades Center in West Nyack? If you are a lover of malls, that is the place to go. I have seen TOR routes nearby, I'm not sure if a Coach USA/Red & Tan Line route goes there from new York City. Check it out!
It's an outlet mall though, not a regular mall. And I heard that the mall is not doing too well (lost several major tenants), well this is what I read in business news awhile back.
[It's an outlet mall though, not a regular mall.]
That is not quite accurate. The unique thing about Palisades Center is that it couldn't quite figure out what it wanted to be! While there are hints that it is an outlet mall, the presence of Filenes and Lord & Taylor dispells that. It certainly has something for everyone!
Well I do want to check Palisades center out sometime. What is the bus # out of PABT and how long is the ride? Is the bus expensive?
Red & Tan/Rockland Coaches/Coach USA #20 (say that fast 3 times in a row...)
Is the bus expensive? You bet - several hundred $ per bus...
Or, $5.80 single (I think)
Red&Tan route 20 from gate 220 the fare is $5.85,the ride is about an hour or so
Sounds pretty reasonable, I'll have to try it out sometime.
im so dying to go there!!but i dont have enough money to pay round trip on a Red&Tan Line bus plus i plan on eating lunch there.THE 2ND LARGEST mall in the country= worth a whole day's trips there. by the way,which is THE largest mall in the country,if Palisades Center is 2nd,which is 1st?
[by the way,which is THE largest mall in the country,if Palisades Center is 2nd,which is 1st?]
I don't have time to look up the stats, but I do know that King of Prussia Mall in PA is the largest mall in the northeast. Also, Sawgrass Mills in the Ft. Lauderdale, FL, area is the largest outlet mall in the country. At one time, Lenox Square Mall in Atlanta, GA, was the largest mall in the south, but that goes back awhile. Also, I had thought that Carousel Mall in Syracuse, NY, and owned by the same people that own Palisades Center, was larger than Palisades Center, but I'm not 100% sure.
i agree with ya that Sawgrass Mills is the largest outlet mall in the country,ive been there twice and i love it! the only mall youll ever see thats shaped like an alligator...or is that a crocadile,not that it matters.
I believe the largest mall in North America is The Mall of America, which is located in Bloomington, Minnesota. That's a suburb of Minneapolis. Prior to that, the largest mall in North America was the West Edmonton Mall in Alberta, Canada. I visited that one in 1987. It took me 3 days to find Sears!
a Mall of the America in Minnesota? hmm,odd,there's another mall with the same name in Miami,i guess this shows there can be two malls with the same name afterall,i didnt think it was possible
Mall Of America
Sure is. In fact, it is also just as possible for Valley Metro to exist in Phoenix, Arizona as it is for our TA, which bears the same name, to exist in Roanoke, Virginia. I guess in either case, when one is mentioned, you have to be specific on what city!
-Fred
There's also a Springfield Mall in both Fairfax County, Virginia (and a nearby Metro stop - Franconia-Springfield; Fairfax Connector and WMATA Metrobus serve this mall) and one in Delaware County, Pennsylvania (3 SEPTA bus routes and the 101/Media trolley serve this mall).
Another major DC/Philly confusion is the dual Montgomery Counties.
C
[I'm not sure if a Coach USA/Red & Tan Line route goes there from new York City]
Rockland Coach/Red & Tan Route 20 serves Palisades Center from PABT. Another option from NYC is Metro North to White Plains or Tarrytown and the Tappan Zee Express to the Mall. Not all T-Z expresses stop at the store bus stop, but all stop in Lot J Park and Ride. Transport of Rockland routes 59, 91 and 92 also go to the Mall.
Huh? I've been to the Westchester, at least they have a food court. Short Hills has hardly anywhere to eat. I actually felt way more uncomfortable at Short Hills, that mall is the snobbiest place around.
The Westchester is a nicer mall than Short Hills IMHO, and is only a 15 minute walk from MNRR White Plains station. It is very upscale, but at least there's someplace to eat. Short Hills is not the kind of mall you can spend a day in, the Westchster is.
Still, the Garden State Plaza in Paramus, NJ easily beats all the other malls. Large, with a nice food court and stores that range from low range to upscale. And all without the riff-raff that plauges Roosevelt Field here on LI.
Garden State Plaza is easily accessible via the NJ Transit 171 route from GWB, or 163 from PABT at 42nd street.
What riff-raff are you talking about? No Mystical girls?
Riff-raff, in my definition, includes wild and disorderly groups of people.
RF definately has many wild and disorderly groups, especially around the bus stop. It gets worse on weekends and in summer, so it's most likely teenagers. I see the cops there often lately, usually arresting someone.
RF's problems may be that it is a more youth oriented mall, than say Garden State Plaza or The Westchester.
Riff-raff at Roosevelt Field?! What time do you go there? 2a.m.? Roosevelt Field is probably one of the nicest and safest malls you can go to. If you think there is riff-raff there, then maybe you should consider staying home and hiding under your bed. Or better yet, take a trip over to Green Acres Mall.
BIG AL
Really? Cmmon, I see riff-raff all the time, especially now that summer is here. Also there was a shooting in the mall around 7pm last week .
It's a big hangout for the Hempstead and Uniondale gangs. Hey I'm just tellin ya as I see it.
Of course without actual mall crime stats, this is just heresay on my part. There just seems to be a rowdy air about the place.
Also the police are always there arresting somebody.
yeah i heard about someone getting shot there at that mall.when i saw it i couldnt believe it but at the same time i got really pissed off since i hate crime so god damn much it makes me hate cops too.such a huge beautiful mall and so many jackasses gotta hang around it,how sad. u.u
Yeah, RF has got the gangs and it is a problem. The mall underwent a renovation awhile back, including the Nordstrom and alot of upscale botique type stores on the new upper level. Unfortunately many of them closed. Unfortunately the "riff raff" probably will never go away. There's nothing more annoying then in the middle of eating in the food court and the fire alarm goes off, pulled by some punks. (it seems it goes off every time I'm there at least once)
Probably the same punks who are defacing LI Buses. We are starting to get that annoying scratchiti out here now too. It used to be just magic marker, but now they're doing that too.
Problem with LI malls is every one is near a not-so-great area. Roosevelt Field is near Hempstead, Broadway mall near New Cassel (Hicksville aint so great either), Sunrise near Amityville, South Shore near Brentwood, Walt Whitman near Huntington station,etc.
Only exception to the rule is Smith Haven, which even though is only one level, is one of my favorite malls. All the areas around Smith Haven are middle class areas, sorta like the area around the SI Mall, which reminds me alot of Smith Haven. When I go there I actually take the LIRR to St.James and walk. It is about a 40 minute walk along Moriches Rd but it is nice. Taking Suffolk Transit would be kinda slow though. I'd have to take two buses from Walt Whitman, not counting the LI Bus ride there.
In NJ, the big malls seem to be located in the center of fairly nice areas, like GCT in Paramus, Willowbrook in Wayne,etc.
i ponder what in the blue hell goes on in these stupid gangs minds sometime?do they think shooting someone makes them look cool?or pulling the fire alarm make em look cool?im telling ya if i saw any of them id give them a big reality check but not before i beat their carkasses to within an inch of thier pitiful lives.that'll teach em not to be a bunch of stupid low class fools.
The Westchester is on Westchester Av about a block east of Broadway. Bee-Line service operates along Westchester Av, particularly, the Loop A, the 12, and the 13. There may be other routes that operate along Westchester Av by The Westchester, but it's been about 3 years since I've been up that way.
The I-Bus from Stamford, CT, stops at the Mall, making it easy to commute to/from the equally upscale Stamford Towne Center.
Since there was mention of the B 100. What can MTA do to improve service on the other command local route B 103? This route can be use for good use from Canarsie to Downtown Brooklyn. And an alternative to the B6 to Flatbush Ave and B 23 on Corteleyou Rd (AKA Command Bus Rd)to C.I. Av I am not sure what the problem is but I guess not too many people are inform that it exsist, besides the hourly but on time off peak hour service.
that bus gets on my nerves. it stops in the midle of the adams street service road and always blocks traffic!!!!!!!
the B103 is a limited route not a local.and believe me,the one and only time i rode it,i enjoyed so much,i actually wanna do it again
My mistake, I was compring the B 103 to BM express routes. I too rode it a couple of times it beats taking the B 41 or the train to Downtown!! But that route can be put to some good use. By the way why can't these private bus companies afford to put maps on Guide - A - Rides (I believe that is what it is called) since these new bus stop poles came to Brooklyn, this was the only way I knew that this route even exist. And that is the same mentality alot of people feel. If I never heard of it then why use it. I wish private bus companies should take some passion if they want to keep their services and put bus maps and schedules up. I guess letting their route get recognized in a Brooklyn bus map (command) is a start!
On the subject of Command bus (Cortelyou) Rd. Can the B103 serve stops on the B23 from Flatbush Av - Coney Island Av
to eliminate the B23. The 16 Av portion can be replaced by extending the B67. And why does the B 23 sucks?
Alot of the private bus companies in Queens have published timetables for their lines. Maybe Command has them for their B100 and B103 routes. Has anybody asked the drivers for them? If more people had them and were waiting for the buses at the bus stops, More people would discover that this bus stops here instead of just passing by.
I mean on the bus stop poles that "thing" that has the schedule and the bus map. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they are called "Guide - A - Rides".
Command does have printed timetables for its B-100 and B-103 routes (as well as its express routes). You can also find the timetables at its web site (http://www.commandbus.com).
I'll settle for a map and timetable that I can get from a bus driver. Websites are fine. But they can be changed very quickly.
This message will announce the arrival of BLX to this great web site. I am here to contribute logical conversation whereby issues of importance are discussed in a meaningful way. I will not be here to whine or respond to those that do. If you have legitmate concerns, let's hear them. I commend the administrator of this web site, and those that contribute vintage photos, etc. BLX will be in touch, periodically. Peace, out!
Welcome my brother.
Whatever you say, SIR! Right away, SIR! Our concerns will be legitimate, SIR!!!
So glad to have another logigal person come onto this board. The last thing we need here is another whiner.
BIG AL
To BLX from FLX: Welcome to the board!
We will be happy to discuss transit with you. Where do you hail from, and what's your favorite type of bus?
-Fred
BLX THANKS ALL THOSE THAT HAVE WELCOMED HIM TO THE WEB SITE OF TRANSIT PURISTS. BY THE WAY, IT'S PRONOUNCED 'BLEX' WHICH HAS IT'S ORIGINS FROM MANY YEARS AGO. I WILL GET INTO THAT ANOTHER TIME. A LITTLE HISTORY ON BLX. ALMOST 25 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THE TRANSIT INDUSTRY. HOURLY EMPLOYEE, SUPERVISOR, MANAGER, SUPERVISOR'S UNION CHAIRPERSON AND SOMETIMES JUST BEING THERE FOR MY CO-WORKERS. THOSE THAT WANT TO PRESERVE TRANSIT HISTORY DESERVE ALOT OF CREDIT. IT'S SO EASY FOR PEOPLE TO FORGET THE DAYS OF BUSES WITHOUT POWER STEERING, AIR SUSPENSION SEATS, RIGHT SIDE MIRRORS AND AIR CONDITIONING. STRAW SEATS ON SUBWAY CARS WITH OVERHEAD FANS. THOSE WERE THE DAYS. BLX MUST SIGN OFF NOW. POWER TO MY BROTHERS WHO KEEP THE TRANSIT DREAM ALIVE. TIL THE NEXT TIME, PEACE, OUT.
Uh, question?!
And this is no direspect, but why are you referring to yourself as third party?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
"BLX" and I are old friends (well, he's old, anyway...hee). He is who he says he is. The references to himself in the third person are just his "thing"...pretty soon it'll just get lost among all the other "things" on this board :-)
David
Like his use of all caps, which will get his messages ignored.
-Hank
Flxible is cool with that. Yes, Fred can certainly understand that...LOL.
Perhaps BLX a wrestler; they always talk in third person. Why? " 'Cause STONE COLD said so....if ya SMELL what the ROCK is COOKIN'!!!".
If that's the case, I'd be worrying about pre-existing brain damage.
-Hank
I know I shouldn't be asking this outloud, But BLX has only been on only twice.
Hmm? I don't follow you...what do you mean? Just curious.
We've been talking about BLX arriving. But he was only on twice. And that I didn't want to say it out loud for fear of encourging him.
Encouraging him? What do you mean?
LOL! Sorry BLX, nothing against you. I'm laughing at that fact that the statement holds water...some of those wrestlers really DO have permanent brain damage!
-F.
Brooklyn67, in agreement with Hank, also wonders what "BLX" means when he says, "POWER TO MY BROTHERS WHO KEEP THE TRANSIT DREAM ALIVE".
Care to elaborate?
All I can say to all of this is "Flxy is the Blxy"!!!
I don't understand.
I know BLX. Its kind a running joke. Sorry to have you guys perplexed. I'll let him know about the CAPS.
Brooklyn67 thanks you for your explanations, however he is still a bit confused.
:o
I'm sorry BLX & Q5, but Brooklyn, that was great!
Trevor
Thanks for the kind words; welcome to the family. "BLX" is pronounced like Flx....I get it. Easy to remember!
-F.
While this "BLX" person might end up being the nicest person in the world, am I the only person here that detects a certain "arrogance" and "egomania" from his introductory post? Who cares if BLX arrived? As far as I know, most normal people who join this board for the first time just post their first time without any "fanfare". And who does "BLX" think he is by "telling us" that "if we have legitimate concerns, let's hear them"? Did Mr. Pirmann go on a vacation and make him the boss?
Maybe I'm over reacting, but those are just my thoughts. My apologies to Q5 Merrick or anyone else who knows this "BLX" person. Is he related to Rickey Henderson by any chance?
I work with "BLX". It's just his way; he means no harm and truly has something to contribute if the subject matter is right. Give him a chance.
David
Ok!