See welcome back thread over on Subtalk.
Welcome
back.
I am making sure my handle wasn't purged and posting about this morning's trip. I have missed having a bus forum and am glad to be back here.
I took the 38 this morning instead of the 37. The bus (I think) was 5390. The 38 was all Gilligs this morning frrom 1996, there may have been one 1997 but it was hard to see the number. Since I got 5413 about a month and three days ago on the 38, I have not seen any of the 99 Gilligs anywhere except for 5410 last week on the 11 and I may have seen one today but I am not sure. I haven't seen any more new Orions on the Northern routes in quite some time. The must all be here since I haven't seen any new numbers, I had been getting 5618 alot last week. Some of them have 02 birthyears.
Montgomery County's ethanol fueling station opens next week. I don't know where it is though. I would assume it is at the Gaithersburg Garage.
WMATA B11 seems to be doing fine. There are always some people on it when the buses aren't running back to back like they were this morning. Buses come from Montgomery (I would have expected them to be at Four Mile Run) and do quite a bit of deadheading to and from Rosslyn. Most of the time, the buses are Orion Vs.
That is all for now :-)
What is the status of the NJT bus order? It has been awhile since Trevor has been able to update the daily goings on of our wonderful transit system? Any word on if they have decided on the replacement buses for the flixable??
Well, the New NJT Cruiser order is all over the place:
7401-7419 NJT D4000 Cruisers
7420-7450 (So Far) NJT D4501 Cruisers
7480-7488 NJT D4000 Cruisers
7501-7503 NJT 102-DW3SS Cruisers (Currently in Training Use)
7504 (Disappeared off the face of the planet)
7505-8115 NJT D4000 Cruisers
8202 NJT D4500 Cruiser Demo (Now @ Oradell)
8204 Private D4500 Cruiser Demo (Now @ DeCamp)
8270-8292 NJT D4000 Cruisers
8401-8435 DeCamp D4000 Cruisers
8451-8453 Carefree D4000 Cruisers
8454-8502 Rockland Coaches (Red & Tan) D4000 Cruisers
8503 Short Line D4000 Cruiser (On Loan from Red & Tan)
8504-8513 Suburban D4000 Cruisers
8514-8518 Community Coach D4000 Cruisers
8519-8523 Olympia Trails D4000 Cruisers
8556-8559 Trans-Bridge D4000 Cruisers
8563-8619 (So Far and Growing) Academy D4000 Cruisers
8703 Nate Transportation D4000 Cruiser
8704-8759 Lakeland D4000 Cruiser
8971-8988 NJT D4000 Cruisers
As you can see this is a MAJOR deviation from the original NJT plan for Cruiser disbursment. You now see 7400s which weren't even in plan for use, you see 8200s that was a D4501 Cruisers series now in D4000 use, you the high 8900s which weren't even in the plan for use (The highest was supposed to be 8915). Now you still have to account for 285 D4501 Cruisers, there is not enough numbers in the 74xx Series for all of those, you now your gonna see the D4501s just blending in some where with the number gaps. Also the D4000N (96 inch wide Cruisers), haven't even started coming, yet, though most of those are for Suburban and Academy, but the NJT Howell Garage is set for 8 of out of the 96 bus order. So all we can do is watch and keep track of what buses go where from here on out instead of what number series is what.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
That's just poor planning. NJT knew when they made the order that there was an option, and they certainly could have planned the numbers with that possibility in mind.
I'm glad to see bustalk is back. So how's your bus been treating you?
I know it good to back in BusTalk again & i been riding on the bus like hell for last few months while im doing Operation Plannings.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
wow, home sweet home!!!!!!
It's soooo great to be back home! Queens is still here, running the oldest of the oldest.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.org
Yeah except 1852 has a new home at Quill. That leaves 1751 and 1767 left at QV.
3807 3818 3824 4344 4345 have went from QV-JAM.
517-521 CS-QV.
148 CAS-GH.
4362-4363 KB-HP.
1904 YUK-UP.
1826 still at HP.
2774 UP-CS(Training Purposes)
#1979 X17
It's good to be back on Bus Talk. Thanks to David for bringing it back to life. The only news out of 126th Street Depot is that 2 New Flyer artics (#'s 5506 & 5509) have rejoined the fleet. Back in early April they along with #'s 5507 & 5508 left 126 and were sent back to MaBSTOA. At the time we were told that the TA had decided against using 126 as an articulated depot. Now with the return of these 2 buses, we've been told that 126 will be receiving the first 30 (#'s 5510-5540) buses of the 140 bus option order due to begin being delivered in September. We'll have to wait and see if this turns out to be true or not.
My Buses are the same as Feb as it seems FP and ENY is holding on to there equipment.
Glad to be back. I decided to check out nycsubway.org and saw the talks are back. (.....put a smile on my face) Thanks Dave!
Hey guys,
If anyone knows, I was wondering why NJT is running some of the 7xxx series of commuter buses on the 126 (Hoboken to Port Authority). It seems to me that they must seriously slow down operations with stops every other block between Hoboken Terminal and the tunnel.
-Dave
Well those are Trippers from Ironbound and Howell you are seeing, no they don't slow service down, because in the AM all they do is pick up!!! And its only in the morning you see the DWA3 CNG & D4000 Cruisers operating on the 126 line!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
So why do they use them in the AM and not PM?
There seems to be a greater need for buses in the AM over the PM.
Regards,
Trevor
That's true on most routes to the PABT. They require more runs in the morning because the passengers are more scattered. In the evening, everyone starts at a central point, the bus can fill itself to the ceiling in one shot, and drop everyone off with no problem.
In addition to the established bus service (Peter Pan, Greyhound, etc) between NYC and major cities up and down the NEC, I came to realized that some off-the-wall bus operation operating from Chinatown NYC. One can travel from NYC to Boston for $15.00 and NYC to Washington for $20.00. You can add Philly and Baltimore too. These coaches, from what I have seen from the unoffical Chinatown bus station on East Broadway under the Manhattan Bridge, are all the latest 45 footers, not some patched up ex hounds or church buses.
I do know the Wash to NYC bus leaves 2AM from Washington Chinatown, and the NYC to Wash leaves at 7PM (guessing round trip with same driver 7PM to Wash at 1 AM, retun at 2 arriving at 8 AM). That info was from an article in the Washington Post Travel Section a few weeks back.
I do know of another carrier in a different part of the city that operates from NYC to Miami for $30.00.
Now, are these operators USDOT certified carrier? Are they listed with the USDOT Division that regulates them as Motor Carrier? Would you ride them to save a few bucks and get dropped off in a "different" part of town, in some odd hours?
What do you think?
Yeah that other service is La Cubana which operates some VERY nice MCI D4500 and J4500 Coaches. You have Eastern that operates from Union City, NJ just outside Manhattan, which I also heard is Dirt Cheap!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Entertainment Tours, based in Braintree MA offers 4 trips daily from Boston (South Station Bus Terminal) to NYC (Penn Station) for $20 one way. On Sundays all trips from Boston to NYC are $10. That's right, $10 on Sundays!! How do you make a profit on that??
Entertainment Tours uses 45 foot MCI 102 coaches (as seen at South Station last week), they also have some MCI Renissance coaches in their fleet. I picked up a flyer with the schedule last weekend when I was in Boston for the day. I also picked up a flyer from Peter Pan/Greyhound that offers a $20 one way/$40 RT fare on 3 of their Boston/NYC trips daily (7AM, 12:15, 5:15 PM leaving Boston) return trip can be made on any of their 28 daily trips.
There is also a Chinese bus company that runs Boston/NYC service, I saw a mini coach with destination sign in Chinese and English while walking through Boston's Chinatown.
I wonder how much business these companies are taking away from Peter Pan & Greyhound's schedules.
Mark
Hello All, Great to be Back... Looking forward to all those great pictures from Trevor and Cleanairbus......
Peace to All
Orlando, Gun Hill
Speaking of Gun Hill, have you seen this site?
http://www.ispeakout.com
I understand it's an employee site maintained by a Gun Hill Depot operator.
As I said on Subtalk, I welcome back the boards. I thank Harry Beck for giving us a temp home while this board was on hiatus and I thank Dave Pirmann for giving us another chance.
Now for the BusTalk:
While in Manhattan today I saw 246 on the M7 with Orange Balios signs on it and 444 was on the M104 REPOWERED. I mentioned on Other Side that 416 was also repowered!
Be on the lookout for repowered 400s and Orange Destinations signs on the Orions. MTA Buses 240 244 246 247 428 and 522 all have the Orange Signs on them.
#444 M104
#246 M7
#522 Q32
#1979 X22
Well, those aren't Balios Orange LED Signs, those are Luminator Horizon 100% LED sign systems, same currently in use on Green Line Orion 05.501 and NY Bus Service MCI D4500 Commuter Coaches. Command Orion 05.501 CNG #4961 & MTA Orion 05.501 #522 still uses a Balios sign, but that's about it, everything else is Luminator.
Also 444, 416 and 413 which have the exhaust pipes at the top aren't repowers, they've just had the pipes moved to the top, which may happen with the rest of the 400-600 series Orion 05.501 buses. Since they already have the clean burning Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC engine there is no need for repowering!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Valley Metro Transit (Phoenix, Az) On It's new 45 Foot NAMBI (4300 - ?) Have Orange Headsigns and also Side Dest. Signs. There Easy To See At Night From A Distance But During the day they are hard to see in direct 100* F Sun. I personally don't like them. what do you think?
They're an improvement for nights, where in NYC they're visible from further away, but again, it does suffer greatly from invisibility in direct sunlight more than the flip-dots or the LED flip-dots.
-Hank
At Mother Hale we have about five or six 93 Orions with new Orange colored signs that were just installed. Many customers have commented how great the signs are because they are very easy to read.
Those orange destinations at MCH are those Balios Like 522 at CS or Luminators like on GBL's Orion Transits and NYBS MCI OTR's
Perhaps Valley Metro hasn't figured out how to set the signs up properly. We had that problem at the agency where I drive (Orange County, California). The signs were so damned bright at night you didn't need to have the headlights on. And so dim in daylight couldn't see the signs in the daytime either.
There are ways to program the brightness so it is acceptable at night, and doesn't cause motorists driving towards the bus to go blind -- and yet they can be seem in daylight. The signs are supposed to brighten up in the daytime and dim somewhat at night. Now that ours have been programmed to do this properly, you can sometimes see them get brighter and dimmer when they pull into a covered terminal.
Probably old news to you folks, but it seems that the TA has put the New Flyer demonstrators to use on the x51. Nice looking bus, bigger than an MCI, it seems.
-Hank
Yep. They've been out-and-about for months now.
The 3 Vikings were all parked behind one another at CS depot. In numerical order as well..............
And unfortunately, too far away to be viewed by the naked eye from the boardwalk.
Who makes the new Westchester County Articulateds? I've been seeing them recently near Yonkers Raceway, and I can't ID them visually.
-Hank
They are made by Neoplan..
Neopolan
Are The Low Floor? Are The Alt Fuel (Electric, CNG, LNG)?
No, they are high-floor and AFAIK they run on diesel.
I understand that the proposed B13/B18 and the B40/B78 combinations will go through in the system pick this fall.
The new B13 will remain in Fresh Pond
The new B47(B40/B78) will be in either East New York or Flatbush.
I understand that East New York will have to give up some lines because they will no longer be able to park buses on Broadway during the overnight hours.
I heard that the B8 will be going to Gleason and that the new B47 will be either depot.
Another rumor is that if the B47 goes to East New York then the B9 will be trnasferred to Flatbush
Thank You
Barry:
The new B13 will be at FP depot.
The new B47 will be at Flatbush depot.
The B8 is transferring from ENY to JG. This is due to ENY losing its permit to park outside and around the depot.
The B9 is not going anywhere.
Thank You
Your welcome. But this leave me with another question.
Even though the B8 is leaving ENY, where are the extra buses going? I know that the JG is not taking back any RTS, or are they????
Unless they are getting some new CNG's by September Gleason will be getting some RTS's from East New York. In additon Flatbush will be getting some East New York buses.
Also i heard a rumor that Ulmer Park will be getting the B-68 back and the x-27 will be going back to Gleason
Any truth
Thank You
I dont think so. The only depot moves in Bklyn is the B8 to JG and the B47 to Flatbush, I know the B8 is leaving because of space issues at ENY. Maybe thats the same reason why the B47 is not coming out of ENY as well.
Is there an exact date yet as when B18 service will be eliminated.
OMG, I will miss the B18. The B13 will become crappy when it is combined with the B18. I hope this plan fails.
-
B13- RTS Nova #9172
-If your a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
It's nothing new that there's a bill in the state Assembly for the MTA to take over the NYCDOT-subsidized private routes of Queens. However, according to a Newsday article last week (I don't remember what day), this time it is being taken more seriously than usual. Any thoughts on that?
:-) Andrew
Yes its about time for the following reasons:
Also i will include Command in the takeover as well
1-The private lines do not own their own buses any more
2-Queens Surfice and Command are already in city owned garages
3-It will give riders of the private lines improved service since the TA will be responsible for the lines. Right now the DOT can request the private lines make a change but really do nothing if the changes are not made.
4-The owners of the private lines really have no desire to improve service as they will not benefit from the changes unless they get more money from the DOT.
5-It will eliminate duplicate management and backup services.
ie Operations Planning in the TA and the DOT.
6-It can adjust bus routes to where ridership dictates. When was the last time a DOT route was extended.
7-Union problems will have to be resolved as Command and Green Lines are ATU while Jamaica.Triboro and Queens Surfice are TWU.
The TA Queens Division is ATU while the TA Brooklyn Division and MABSTOA are TWU
8-Duplicate services can be eliminated .
Under a seperate post i will outline how the routes should be assigned.
Thank You
Thats why in the last contract negiotations Twu Locals 100 and 106 accepted a provision that the union would sit down with management in discussions of a regional bus authority.
It would take a long time to figure out how seniority would finally be divied up amoung all these operators and supervisors.
Regional Bus 'aint gonna happen'. Not the way it's being proposed anyway. There isn't a single member of the TA combined 35,000± TWU/ATU membership who is willing to have the title removed from civil-service status.
The unions agreed to 'discussion' of RBC, not implementation.
The TA presented their laundry list of details with respect to this RBC. When the union comes back with theirs, it will be a dead deal. HBT notwithstanding.
I can't see RB happening anytime in the near future. Regardless of what NYCT management propoganda says, the talk among the rank and file is 'its dead before it even begins'.
Matter of fact, we're not even going to entertain RB until other internal factors are resolved. This is going to be an extremely messy December...
First: Barry has a lot of the details wrong.
Second: I think the remark in the papers that Bloomberg has been talking to the MTA about a Regional bus authority is more of a trial baloon then anything else, i.e. if no one shoots it down right away then maybe he'll think a little more seriously about it.
If it moves forward, there are all kinds of issues to be addressed first: depots that are owned by private concerns; local seniority vs. merging routes (MaBSTOA is S-T-I-L-L not part of the TA totally); cost benifit to City Hall .... after all that's what this is realy about, so Mike has to balance the political benifit of his bus companies vs. the saving to the bottom line. Remember the the City has to kick in some dollars to the TA for the SERVICE they provide to the City. Can you say (like Nassau Tom did) "I don't want to pay my share for bus service anymore because I've run out of money (in Nassau County)"
Final point: Who is more accesable to the public if they don't like the service or the routing of the bus lines, MTA or DOT ? Think about it, when was the last time the TA did anything because the public wanted it ?
Disclaimer: Speaking for myself here.
Mr rt
I couldn't agree more with you, Mr. T
But, don't think for a moment that the TA won't try and hold the TWU HBT hostage in the 2002 contract negotiations, using RBC more as a distractor than anything else...
The following is how i will outline the takeover of the DOT routes by the MTA
COMMAND BUS
1-Merge the B-100 with the B-2 Flatbush/Avenue R route by extending the B-2 from Kings Plaza to 56 Drive/Strickland Avenue via Avenue U and East 66th Street. Current B-100 service on Fillmore Avenue and Quientin Road will be discontinued as it duplicates the B-2 between E. 16th St and Flatbush Ave (the routes operate one block apart
2-B-103- will operate via Flatbush Avenue instead of via Corteylou Rd/Propsect Expressway
3-Change route numbers of BM 1,BM 2,BM 3 and BM 4 only. Discontinue the Saturday service on these routes
4-Merge the BQM 1 and the BM 2S service into one route. Discontine Saturday service on the route.
5-Retain the Command garage since its city owned as a new Brooklyn Division Depot
GREEN BUS LINES
1-No changes on current Green Line routes Q6,Q7,Q9,Q11,Q37,Q40,Q41 and Q 60
2-Extend the Q-8 route to the new shopping center being built near Starrett City. Transfer route to TA Jamaica Depot-Queens Division
3-Merge the Q-10 and 10A and the Q-22 and Q-22A into one route for the 10 and the 22
4-Merge the Q-21 with Triboro's Q-53 into one route
5-Redesignate the Q-35 as the B-32 and trasnfer to TA Flatbush Depot
6-Renumber the QM15,QM16,QM17,QM18 and QM23
7-Purchase the Green Line Rockaway Blvd Main garage and close the Rockaway Depot
Additonal changes will be posted later
Thank You
What's your solution to seniority rights?
What's your solution to ATU members working with TWU members under 4 different contracts and regulations?
What's your solution to incorporating civil servant operators with private line operators?
What's your solution to work variances between borough regulations?
What's your solution to adding lines to Jamaica Depot which cannot handle the capacity it already contains?
The list is endless. With all due respect, sir, the simple part of this equaition is designating routes and numbers. The real work begins with the above. You can call a building whatever you wish. Name a bus whatever you like. The issue is people and jobs.
'Aint gonna happen'
We might see a grandfathering of private lines to the NYCTA, but that's not the same as initiating the rbc. That's another issue entirely. One not likely to succeed.
The questions you asked can not be answered until someting is finalized.
The TWU drivers from Queens Surfice,Triboro and Jamaica can be placed into MABSTOA in senority as one combined list from all three companies. These drivers and mechanics will pick at the bottom of the current MABSTOA list in order . This was done when Avenue B and East Broadway Transit was taken over in April,1980 by MABSTOA.
ie: A current MABSTOA operator with one year on the job will pick ahead of a Private line driver who has 20 years on the job on a combined list.
Since the ATU reprsents the Green Lines and Command and the TA Queens Division what will happen to the drivers depends on what a final consoliodation looks like
Basically it is doable but it is not going to be easy
Thank You
Why would the Queens Division employees be designated to MaBSTOA? Has the idea of QuSTOA been discussed? As I understand your plan, the employees of QSC, JA and TC would technically become Manhattan Division employees, correct? Or are you suggesting that the Manhattan and Bronx Operating Authority now include members of Queens? If so, Why? We already have a Queens Division.
I'm sure you're aware that Queens Division doesn't have a 'system pick'. You couldn't possible integrate the ATU workers into any of the Queens depots because we are there for life. There is no 'master list' to speak of.
Barry, I know you're offering your opinions from the other side of the table, which I can respect, and for many reasons RBC is a good idea. However, give the TA an inch and they take earth. I'm not giving up my title, or allowing new hirees to come into this job without civil service protection/benefit if I can help it, and I'm certainly not giving up my seniority under ANY circumstances.
Sure, it's 'do-able'... but it depends what's most important to you to 'do-without'. This RBC as presented will die a December death. Guaranteed. I don't even need to go further...
Thank you :)
If you are a current TA or OA worker you have NOTHING TO LOSE. As i said any drivers or mechanincs will go to the bottom of the current list if a QSTOA is not created and i do not thing that will happen.
What will happen and again this is my own opinion only.
That Queens Surfice,Jamaica Bus and Triboro Coach drivers and mechanics will be placed in the OA list at the bottom of the current OA list in order of when they were hired by the private lines on one combined list. In other words if a merger takes effect on 1/1/03 then a driver hired on12/01/02 by the OA will have more seniorty than a driver who has worked for 20 years for a private line.
What i specualate what will happen is as follows
1-That the routes of Green Bus Lines except for the Q-35 and Jamaica Buses Inc. will be given to the TA Queens Bus Division and ATU.
That the drivers of Green Bus Lines and Command Bus will have the following options:
a)Retain their jobs but lose their senority and can not be replaced by civil service positions . This was done in the late 1940's when North Shore ,East Side/Comprehsesive and Isle Transportaion were taken over by the City. These drivers can not be promoted to a civil service position and once they retire will be replaced by a civil service positon. Lets face it a Green Line driver with 20 years on the job will retire before going back to working weekends and at night
because they will pick at the bottom of the current Queens Division list
2-That the routes of Command Bus and the Green Bus Lines Q-35 will be given to the TA Brooklyn Division and TWU and will be operated from current Brooklyn Division drivers or new civil service drivers.
3-That the routes of Triboro Coach (except Q-38,Q-39,QM-24) and Queens Surfice (except Q-67,Q-103 and Q-104) will be given to a new OA depot to be at the current Queens Surfice depot
4-That the Q-38,Q-39,Q-67,Q-103 and Q-104 will be given to the TA Brooklyn Division to be based at Fresh Pond
5-That the current Q-32 now at Stengel will be transferred to the new OA Queens depot.
Current OA drivers may pick any depot while the drivers taken over from the privates will pick at the bottom
Remember the private lines have different work rules than the TA so more runs will be necessary to bring them up to TA specs
Thank You
Sounds Great! Let me know where I sign to receive my 15-and-out non contributory NYCERS, do away with the TA's pathetic sick rules, give us a heart clause, unlimited sick, progressive discipline reform, accident rating reform, taylor law reform and a list of items I don't have the time to post...
After all, if I'm going to sell out future operators, I must ensure they have the best possible plan available.
"IT DOESNT AFFECT YOU" is the same thing they said to Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 4 and this 25/55 fiasco.
Personally, I won't sell out future operators.. and I know I'm not alone. You don't have to sell this plan to me. It's Roger that needs to sign.. which he already stated he wouldn't if the ATU was against it, which president Lewis openly declared (and lobbied in Albany) his opposition.
So...
Now, OTOH, if the TA thinks they can hold TWU HBT hostage in exchange for the RBC, they won't have a bus running in any borough. That's the chatter among the rank and file... Oh, and because TWU Local 100 is also the representing union for the NYC subway system..... well, you know.
I empathize with you Barry. I actually admire you for posting the information you do, however, you're out of touch with the reality of the situation, and the feelings of the operators systemwide regarding it.
Granted that i never was a bus operator and i understand what you are talking about but please understand the following:
1-I was in business for many years and i am looking at it as a businessman. Yes Transit is a business and it should be run like a business with the public being the ones who benefit. Yes I also believe that the workers must be protected.
2-No one is selling out future operators. Because the TA is civil service and is protected by law i have no problems with that. Basically the problem is to protect the workers of the private lines and i believe that this will do so. The easierst thing is to put the Green Line and the Command drivers into the OA pool but what happens to the ATU. They will be out. But if the Green and Jamaica Line routes are given to the TA Queens Division then ATU will retain basically the same amount of jobs that they currently represent with the Command/Green Lines
Also please remember the following:
1-Precedent was set alreay when the TA and the City took over the Avenue B and East Broadway Transit,the IRT,the BMT,North Shore Bus Lines,Isle Transportation and East Side/Comprehensive Bus Lines which happened between 1940 and 1948 except for the Ave B take over in 1980
so what is being proposed here is not new.
2-The TA wanted to take over the Pioneer Bus routes which later became Command in 1979. Union jurisdiction prevented this.
3-For years the bus lines were run like when they were in private control. It was an arbritator that allowed the TA to make the M-22 a OA route and the Q-32 a TA route provided that no jobs were lost.
Remember the Q-22 was run out of 126th Street or the old Comprehensive depot from 1948 to 1995. Thats 47 years drivers had to run off or pull out from uptown to lower Manhattan when it could have been in Hudson or the old 12th Street Depot from 1962 if the TA could have made the change. Think of the money that the public could have saved.
The idea of the MTA taking over the private lines makes sense. The ones who win is us the public. Its our money that pays the bills
Thank You
Granted that i never was a bus operator and i understand what you are talking about but please understand the following:
1-I was in business for many years and i am looking at it as a businessman. Yes Transit is a business and it should be run like a business with the public being the ones who benefit. Yes I also believe that the workers must be protected.
It seems to me, that redesignating the position as non-civil-service doesn't serve to protect the workers very well, now does it?
2-No one is selling out future operators. Anyone who agrees to redesignate the position is selling-out future operators. Period.
Because the TA is civil service and is protected by law i have no problems with that.
Well, apparently someone has a problem with it because the new RBC will be a non civil service entity. This is the one implementation that will either kill the RBC completely or lead to a strike.
Basically the problem is to protect the workers of the private lines and i believe that this will do so.
The problem? Whos problem? Not mine. I took a civil service test. The TA is a civil service position. While I empathize with the privates, they decided to take a private position knowing full well the ramifications of working for an employer who must be awarded contracts on a semi-annual basis or risk losing their employment. Typical of the TA to pit workers against one another, yet that won't work either. The solution is to give the test to those who become TA workers and make them civil service employees as well. If you think that we are going to allow the loss of a civil service position in exchange for private employees to ensure job security, you're woefully mistaken.
The easierst thing is to put the Green Line and the Command drivers into the OA pool but what happens to the ATU. They will be out.
Even easier is to create a civil service position for those depots which become TA entities by offering the exam and taking the dollar and giving the oath.
But if the Green and Jamaica Line routes are given to the TA Queens Division then ATU will retain basically the same amount of jobs that they currently represent with the Command/Green Lines
Well, those who decide that it's in their best interest to lose their seniority anywy, right? Isn't the whole idea from the privates point of view to offer protected status? How does a Green operator with 25 years of service, who now finds himself on the bottom of a depot list working weekends, holidays, working PM's with T/W RDO's view this plan as protecting him?
Also, wouldn't every new member be subject to the TA's mandatory new-employee one year probationary period?
Also please remember the following:
1-Precedent was set alreay when the TA and the City took over the Avenue B and East Broadway Transit,the IRT,the BMT,North Shore Bus Lines,Isle Transportation and East Side/Comprehensive Bus Lines which happened between 1940 and 1948 except for the Ave B take over in 1980
No precedent was set. North Shore Bus Company remains a civil service position. Queens Division is North Shore Bus. Avenue B and East Broadway could have just as easily been 126th St counterparts and members of the TA Local 100, however they were sold out by their predecessors in lieu of contract perks. I won't do that.
so what is being proposed here is not new.
I beg to differ. What is being proposed here is to remove civil service status from all operators hired in the future to create a single entity deemed regional bus at the expense of everyone involved. Something very new.
2-The TA wanted to take over the Pioneer Bus routes which later became Command in 1979. Union jurisdiction prevented this.
As will we prevent RBC.
3-For years the bus lines were run like when they were in private control. It was an arbritator that allowed the TA to make the M-22 a OA route and the Q-32 a TA route provided that no jobs were lost. Remember the Q-22 was run out of 126th Street or the old Comprehensive depot from 1948 to 1995. Thats 47 years drivers had to run off or pull out from uptown to lower Manhattan when it could have been in Hudson or the old 12th Street Depot from 1962 if the TA could have made the change.
Different animal. We're talking about status preference of new operators under the same title, not operators under the TA umbrella from other agencies.
Think of the money that the public could have saved.
Saving the public money isn't my job or concern. That's your concern as a businessman. My concern is protecting my job title and status preference.
The idea of the MTA taking over the private lines makes sense. The ones who win is us the public. Its our money that pays the bills
Aside from being a NYCT BO, I'm also a taxpayer, hence I also 'pay the bills'. But if you're going to take that attitude, consider, "I'm the one who gets you to work. I'm the one who can keep you home. I move New York, and I can bring it to a halt".
Not very promising, huh?
Thank You
You're welcome.
Well, those who decide that it's in their best interest to lose their seniority anywy, right? Isn't the whole idea from the privates point of view to offer protected status? How does a Green operator with 25 years of service, who now finds himself on the bottom of a depot list working weekends, holidays, working PM's with T/W RDO's view this plan as protecting him?
Why not have all the B/O's keep their seniorities and just toss them all together into one large pool? (I'm sure the answer is obvious to you, but...)
Why not have all the B/O's keep their seniorities and just toss them all together into one large pool? (I'm sure the answer is obvious to you, but...)
But... it's not possible to keep your seniority in another location because of location/division/contractual rules. In Queens Division, there is no 'system pick', meaning, each depot has it's own seniority list that only changes for the better when someone retires.
A Jamaica operator cannot pick a line out of Flushing, for example. Each Queens depot has a seniority list unto itself. There are 3 #1 pegs in Queens (#1 in Jamaica, #1 in QV and #1 in Flushing), 3 #2 pegs and so on.
A green operator with 28 years on the job might have the equivilent of a double-digit peg in Queens, yet be forced to the bottom of the depot senority list in the garage of choice (in the low-mid 400's, possible 500+ if filtered into the system).
However, if the TA takes over Green and keeps the facility, that particular garage would be goverened by TA rule, yet not be a civil service position. Since they are already ATU, they would remain under the ATU umbrella, but not qualify under the contract signed by the other 3 Queens depots which are civil service.
Also, I'm not sure about how the local union politics works in this instance. I don't believe they can keep their local if under the NYCT umbrella, as all NYCT Queens Division employees are represented by ATU Local 1056. Queens Surface is represented by TWU, which creates divisional problems right from the start.
Unless... QS, TC and Jamaica Buses become QuSTOA, a non civil service division of NYCT. They are all under TWU which works well, however, TWU and MaBSTOA have system picks- where a seniority based list of operators pick runs in any depot they wish based on their seniority preference systemwide. If this happens, any MaBSTOA opeartor would have the contractual right to 'bump' a QS operator from his/her run. That is, if this 'QuSTOA' is established. So if an operator from Gun Hill with 9 years on the job likes the QM-whatever, based on what Barry says, (NYCT have preference and seniority priority), he could take the run from an operator at QS who has 18 years on the job. Effectively forcing the privates to pick Bronx or Manhattan work. (Unless there is stipulation that says this cannot happen.... as is in my case, in Queens Division, but then, it cannot be part of or a division of MaBSTOA).
So.. if the privates don't become QuSTOA, MaBSTOA affiliates, civil service NYCT employees.... what's left? Just a name. Just the TA painting buses blue and white, taking over facilities and running the show. That's fine. It would work. But it won't work when they try and consolidate everyone into one entity.
Like I said, RBC may be a good idea in certain respects, but not the way it's presented right now. And if the TA even remotely attempts to force this issue, it will be a very cold December 2002.
I'm afraid I still don't understand. Let's say you have 20 years of seniority at QV. Your friend Bob has 15 years at Flushing. And Jim has been with Triboro for 25 years.
Now lump them all together in one pool. Of the three of you, Jim gets to choose first. Perhaps he'll take a job out of QV for a change -- maybe the one you were hoping for. But you get to choose next, and a formerly high-seniority job (the one Jim had previously) is still open. No, it's not the one you're used to, but it can't be all that bad if 25-year Jim was willing to put up with it. Or maybe you'll take a Flushing job -- and Bob might take the Triboro job.
Nobody loses seniority. Everybody's just pooled together. What's the problem with that?
(I'm not addressing the union issues since I'm not at all familiar with the details.)
I'm afraid I still don't understand.
I'm probably not explaining it very well. The details and contrasts are endless. I'll try again...
Let's say you have 20 years of seniority at QV. Your friend Bob has 15 years at Flushing. And Jim has been with Triboro for 25 years.
Okay..
Now lump them all together in one pool.
Can't do that, and that's the problem.
Of the three of you, Jim gets to choose first.
Nope. Jim can't choose over me. I'm a civil servant, and I'm at a depot that doesn't have a system pick.
Perhaps he'll take a job out of QV for a change -- maybe the one you were hoping for. But you get to choose next, and a formerly high-seniority job (the one Jim had previously) is still open. No, it's not the one you're used to, but it can't be all that bad if 25-year Jim was willing to put up with it.
Jim is a non civil service, TWU represented employee. He can't work at QV. Unless he relinquishes his TWU status and becomes an ATU member, in which case, Jim loses his 25 years and goes to the bottom of the list (AFTER he passes a civil service examination).
Or maybe you'll take a Flushing job --
I can't pick a flushing line. Queens Division doesn't have system picks.. {{sigh}} I said this already above.
and Bob might take the Triboro job.
And lose his civil service status and pension? LOL
Nobody loses seniority. Everybody's just pooled together. What's the problem with that?
Really?
(I'm not addressing the union issues since I'm not at all familiar with the details.)
You must address these details since they are directly attributed to the consolidation of bus companies.
Make everyone into a civil servant, and change the rules so that Queens does have system picks. Why would anyone object to that?
You're not getting the bigger picture here. The TA doesn't want buses- they really never have. The TA is a railroad. Plain and simple. Buses are a liability, profit prohibitive (excuse me ... surplus prohibitive.... a nyc agency isn't supposed to profit [with the exception of those in upper management who line their [pockets with the taxpayers money]) and a mere burdeon on the NYCTA. They want nothing more than to disassociate themselves with buses completely. Answer? A non civil service entity deemed RBC solving 2 problems at once- the privates goal for EPP and the transferring of buses to a regional agency dedicated to only buses.
Neither of which will happen under this plan.
...and you can't just "make them civil servants' because according to civil service law, they must pass a test, take an oath, pay a fee AND go to the bottom of the seniority based system. That effectively kills the idea of EPP.
I suppose it does, unless the law is changed.
So why would 33,000+ TWU civil service employees, and 3,000+ ATU civil service employees want the law changed? Do you think that once the TA gets what they want with buses, it will stop there?
I just don't see what anyone would find undesireable about a borough-wide seniority system, with existing seniorities pooled together. Why would the 36,000+ not want the law changed? How does the law benefit them?
It is impossible to 'pool' seniority across the entire system, especially in divisions where there are no system-wide seniority pegs (as in Queens, 126th Street, and all private bus agencies).
Why? (I'm sure it's obvious to you, but I haven't a clue.)
Just to let you know i believe in the civil service and the protection they offer to the workers.
All I am stating is that if the TA takes over the private lines and has to extend the TA Queens Division to make the ATU happy then
you can have the following options:
1-Make the Green Line and Command drivers and mechanics take a seperate civil service test ( believe its legal but not sure)
2-Put them into the MABSTOA list like the other private lines
similar to what was done in 1980 when MABSTOA took over the Avenue B routes
EVERYONE KEEPS FORGETTING THAT NOTHING NEW HAS BEEN PROPOSED HERE
This was done in the past
1980-Avenue B and East Broadway
1962-Fifth Ave Coach Lines/Surfice Transit
1948-East Side and Comprehensive
1947-North Shore Bus, Isle Transportation
1940-BMT and IRT
Thank You
WHy cant a new entity called BaQSTOA (Brooklyn and Queens Surface Transit Operating Authority )be set up. The current employees of the private lines would retain their seniority within BaQSTOA. Current NYCT Routes would remain NYCT. Of course routes could be studied to reduce duplicates.
Because Brooklyn Division has system picks. Queens does not. The rules wouldn't be the same for either, plus we're talking about 4 different local unions: ATU 1179 ATU 1181 ATU 1056 and TWU 100.
Plus, ATU 1056 and TWU 100 are civil service positions. ATU 1179 and ATU 1181 are not. Different set of work rules and different pension plan.
FYI:
Brooklyn Division: TWU Local 100 and civil service and have system picks under the NYCTA.
Queens Division: ATU Local 1056 and civil service and have NO system pick under the NYCTA.
Manhattan Division: All (except 126th Street) MaBSTOA Local 100 and non civil service and have system picks.
126th Street Manhattan: TWU Local 100 but is a NYCTA depot- they have no system pick.
Bronx Division: All MaBSTOA TWU Local 100 and non civil service and have a system pick.
Staten Island: ATU Local 726 and civil service with no system pick under the NYCTA.
(**Thurston, please correct if wrong- I'm not up to speed on the private details**)
Queens Surface, Triboro Coach, Jamaica Bus: TWU Local 100/106 and non civil service under the NYCDOT.
Green Lines: ATU Local 1179 and non civil service under NYCDOT.
Command Bus: TWU Local 106 and non civil service under NYCDOT.
**Someone is ATU 1181 but I don't recall which franchise. At any rate, that's also non civil service under NYCDOT.
How would you propose to combine all the above into one 'pool'... LOL
Aint gonna happen!!
Sorry! For the record, how did they deal with the formation of MaBSTOA when it was formed or did the Fifth Avenue Coach Lines have only one Local Union. What about the routes later added to MaBSTOA.
Discontinue Saturday service on teh BM Routes, are you insane, do you see the ridership on those on the weekends?!?!!
And no changes on the GLB Q60, what are you even crazier, FLEET CHANGE, that is a major call for Articulated buses.
Brother, no disrespect but I think you need to take a Operations Planning Class!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
The TA will never allow weekend service on its Brooklyn express routes because it will not be financially feasable.
In other words take the subway
How come the X-27 and X-28 have no weekend service now
Re articulated buses on the Q-60 how much service do you want to cut.
REMEMBER THE TA CUTS SERVICE ON THE ARTICULATED ROUTES BY RUNNING LESS BUSES EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE MORE SEATING CAPACITY.
Also there is no room for articulated equipment in Queens
Thank You
Um, not completely true!!!!
Originally that was the idea, but there is a couple of the now Articulated routes that originally had service cuts, but saw a increase in ridership and HAD to return the routes to regular levels, Bx12 and M79 just to name a couple!
Secondly with the current Q60 headway it can be done, there is more than enough room for Articulateds in Queens OR the TA wouldn't be planning to eventually place Artics in Queens, Casey Stengel being the garage of choice.
Your Welcome!
Trevor,
Then how come the articulateds are being removed from the M-79
Also if the TA takes over the privates the Q-60 will either remain where it is in the current Green Line Depot or be transferred to the TA Jamaica Depot which i doubt will happen.
It is only speculation at this point
Thank You
They better not remove the articulated buses from the M79. If they can extend the bus stops, reduce parking, create congestion, and make walking almost as fast as the crosstown trip, they had better leave the articulated buses there. While I would much rather see the RTSs there, after all the inconvience the artics caused for us M79 riders, they better leave them. And I am not the only person who feels this way. I know people who hate those buses, and while they have come to like them, when I mention how they might be moved elsewhere, they say "you mean they only did all that for a short time? They better leave them after all this."
I don't know about the M79, but the M86 has been dreadfully slow with the artics. Loading up at each stop takes forever. I certainly wouldn't mind losing the artics on the M86 in exchange for a larger fleet of smaller buses with the same capacity.
I know the M86 is worse than the M79 but I use the latter more often. Throw a wheelchair and rush hour in the mix on the M86 and you have a LONG trip from 3rd Avenue to West End.
It's funny how the public was so enthusiastic about these artics being placed on routes, while the unions were against them because of their long dwell time and the fact that adding them would decrease service because of the extra room provided by the total capacity of each artic.
I find it ironic that now the same people who praised these buses cry foul when it takes twice as long to get from point-a to point-b.
So the question remains, what's more important? Speed or comfort?
Do you really believe the TA purchased these buses to benefit the riding public? Or do you now see the unions stand that these buses were purchased to cut runs, save fuel, save money in operating expenses and operator pay by cutting runs, affording less buses, but availaing a service that will transport as many passengers...
As David pointed out above, although in another context, these artics do save the public money.
;-)
I was not aware of the MTA being asked to put the artics on 79th and 86th Streets at first, it was on the MTA's website under Service Changes before they came in during December of 1999. I certainly wouldn't be in favor of them. If I had my way, they would be on the north south routes, where they belong.
My apologies. I had only skimmed your post before replying and I thought you were happy with the artics on the M79.
I used to ride the M79 every day but in the past 9+ years I've only ridden it once. (I probably will again on Monday.) It's a nice ride, especially on a 2600-series 1982 RTS or a Flx New Look out of 54th Street or on a 5200-series Blitz rebuild out of Amsterdam.
Speaking of Amsterdam, I was walking across 86th Street this afternoon (why put up with the artics in today's weather?) when I saw an M104 approaching -- at Park!
Artics AREN'T being moved from the M79!!!!! Now that's speculation, there hasn't been any official notice for Artics to be removed from the M79!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I would assume the reason the X-27 and X-28 routes have no weekend service is because for the most part, those routes paralell subway routes that are only a few blocks away. Most of the Command Express Routes serve people who don't live near a subway station (Bergen Beach, Mill Basin, Gerritsen Beach, and Starrett City). BTW, the TA currently runs Saturday service on the X-1 on Staten Island, is that "financially feasable"?.
Yes, the TA runs weekend service on staten island express routes 1,10 and 17(Saturday only)
Why?
There is no subway from Staten Island to Manhattan
The reason if the DOT runs are taken over by MTA for no weekend service is basically
take a bus to the subway
Express bus routes make money only during peak rush periods.
With the exception of the Staten island express routes
which route has standing room only on off peak and weekend service
Thank You
Well I do like the Q53 express run, but perhaps it should be combined with the 21, with alternating Q53A's that run with limited stops.
It is a pain the Q53 doesn't make stops at the J,Z and the A.
Don't worry John. Included in the RBC plan is the integration of LIB also... So you'll soon complain about NYCT's Nassau Division buses.... :o
"3-Change route numbers of BM 1,BM 2,BM 3 and BM 4 only. Discontinue the Saturday service on these routes
4-Merge the BQM 1 and the BM 2S service into one route. Discontine Saturday service on the route"
Why discontune Satuarday Service? Satuarday Service on Command Express Routes have decent riderdship to contune running on satuardays. I rather expend service to 7 Days a week and have Late Night Service on Satuardays.
It's bettter to keep B103 where's it is at since Propsect Expressway is the fastest way to/from downtown brooklyn.
It's better to just merge the Q21 with the Q112 or with the Q41.
I found the article. Here's the URL:
http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-nybus072697321may07.story
:-) Andrew
The NYC Independent Budget Office report on the NYC DOT bus routes referred to in the Newsday article is available at http://www.ibo.nyc.ny.us/.
Jim D.
[It's nothing new that there's a bill in the state Assembly for the MTA to take over the NYCDOT-subsidized private routes of Queens.]
True. According to the Independent Budget Office report cited elsewhere in this thread, that possibility and others have been talked about for years.
However, a direct operational takeover would be politically impossible, because the companies would then go out of business and their owners would lose a guaranteed source of income. Plus, the politicians "owned" by those companies would lose a source of campaign contributions (currently reimbursed by DOT).
A more palatable solution might be to simply stick Transit with the minimal-oversight-guaranteed-funding function. (Remember, the major issue isn't about lowering TOTAL costs - it's about lowering the CITY's costs, in this case by shifting them to someone else.)
In other wirds, this is New York. Anything can happen, and usually does.
OK, no BaQSTOA, but what about MTA Triborough, MTA Jamaica Bus, etc. This way the same union and same seniority status as presently in use. The various fleets could be painted in MTA colors keeping the old names and number on the bus (adding MTA of course).
This could still lead to elimination of duplicate routings.
Even BaQSTOA could eventually result, with an understanding that a certain local has a certain depot(s) with current work rules and practices. New hires could be BaQSTOA with a master seniority list (under those currently on board). Make BaQSTOA civil service. Until such a time as all employees are BaQSTOA, current employees would work for MTA Queens Surface, MTA Command Bus, etc. These entities could be a part of BaQSTOA (as could current Brooklyn NYCT bus employees who would still keep current seniority and work rules).
Would that answer the objections?
Hey All:
Glad to be back.......
I would first like the say thanks to all that participated in the TransiTALK Message Center while BusTalk/SubTalk was on a Vacation. I know it wasn't the best board going but it served its purpose.
Secondly, for those that didn't know, TransiTALK The Site, has returned to the web under a new URL and a its own server. The new URL is www.transitalk.org, its not fully up yet but there is a few galleries, sounds and movies to check out. The site should be back to its full 100% capacity around the mid-summer time, I'm expecting about 10,000 photos by the time the site is fully operational again. You will notice in time that there is MUCH more than there was when the site was shut down by the even Yahoo! Geocities empire! :o(
Enjoy Your Day
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
For those of you who missed the QvDepot.Com Bus Quiz posted elsewhere, here is a 50-question multiple-choice quiz consisting of NYCT bus operation, rules, routes and useless factoids:
Bus Quiz! (http://www.qvdepot.com/cgi-bin/quiz/quiztest.cgi?busquiz)
You have 15 minutes to complete the exam upon accessing the above link. All anonymous entries will be removed from the system. Please do not submit multiple entries, as only the first submission will count toward grading.
Test your knowledge.. and good luck!
My friend I think you like you job tooooo much.
Mr rt
Actually, that was written as a test of the system. I'm creating a quiz section for operator-hopefulls, current operators taking their 19-a biannuals, and a contractual quiz for Queens division employees. It will serve to help the new probationary operators keep their jobs because the TA doesn't (or shall I say refuses to) provide rulebooks to employees.
It's not because I love my job that much, it's because I dislike management that much, and am hoping to protect my fellow operators with the armorment of knowledge.
Would it suprise you to know that only 2 operators passed that quiz? Why haven't you taken it, Mr T?
:-)
"Would it suprise you to know that only 2 operators passed that quiz? Why haven't you taken it, Mr t?"
First: I say good for you ! Management SHOULD be in the mode of helping operators learn & instill a since of pride in the job for them.
Second: I just work for a bus company, operating trolleys & subway cars is my bag. The rule book for the museums bad enough thank you.
Mr rt :^)
i had the highest score for a few days
Yes you did :-)
I emailed Kathleen and asked how she knew so much about NYCT bus operations, however I never received a reply.
Thurston, the TA doesn't give a rat's @$$ about their employees. Ignorance is bliss at NYCT where expending knowledge to operators is concerned. They'd much rather have an ignorant employee base, because along with ignorance comes the opportunity to suspend or fine operators who violate rules (which they don't know exists, because management refuses to issue rule books).
If your fellow QS operators believe that EPP involves a NYCT umbrella, they are sadly mistaken. Mark my words- should the TA undertake operation of QSC, those employees will be miserable from day one. Guaranteed.
Lets hope that Roger Toussaint or one of his crew is reading this ...
opps I shouldn't be saying that being a manager :-(
Must be the Teamster training that still hasn't been totally purged from my system, or the fact that I used to hand out the checks here & still talk to the operators & once in a while I let them take me for a ride (to a meeting in Manhattan) < G >
Mr rt :^)
Roger has a bigger agenda than BusTalk, but there are a few lower-level TWU reps who occasionally read, but don't participate in the forum. A few do contribute to online email-based employee transit groups.
I saw Orion V CNG 370 today in Glen Cove. Looked brand new. Uses the same Detriot Diesel Series 50G engine in the other newer Orions 288 and up. That order went up to 359, so this must be the next order.
I guess this one will be replacing most of the diesel Orion V's.
The diesels will be missed. The 6V-92 is rapidly biting the dust, in NYC too, as most buses are now repowered with the truck-like sound of the Series 50.
Hi all,
nice to be back 'home'
I have seen LIB Orions 359, 361, 363, 366 and 370 working the N6 and N24 lines over the past week or so.
Also saw 349 in tow back to nassau from queens about a week and a half ago, looked like a lot of dry chemical residue sprayed around around the rear wheels and engine area.
1751 still lives at QV
349 getting towed, yeah the new ones are breaking down too. As for chemical residue, do you mean fire supression foam?
Series 50s have a nasty habit of overheating, I've seen it with some NYCT buses too.
Are any RTs busses being ordered, All oif the new ones seem to be orions or articulateds
I guess someone is gonna have to break this to you sooner or later - the RTS is no more. :(
MTA could have saved the RTS. I know the RTS has plenty of foes around here, but I think MTA would have been wise to order 500 RTSs at first rumor that the model was to be discontinued. First, it would have saved the RTS for all TAs, and second, it would have guaranteed New York a large number of new buses of a tried and tested model. I acknowledge that the 4900-5249 NovaBUS RTSs (the newest ones) have been disappointments, but I say with confidence that they are 1000x better than the Orion VIIs will be.
As far as I am concerned, the additional New Flyer articulated buses are good news. Again, not everyone likes these buses either (such as some riders of the M79) but at least they have proven themselves in most arenas of operation. More artics will likely mean relief for overcrowded routes in Brooklyn and Queens, and as long as MTA does not cut service after introducing artics, that will make everyone happy.
Regarding the Orions, let's not forget that the TA is not getting any more Orion Vs. The pending Orion order is for the untested, unproved, unwanted VII model. We are about to have another Grumman 870 fiasco on our hands here, people. Let's make sure we don't send any retired RTSs too far away - we'll need them when the Orion VIIs crap out after a year in service.
Good to have BusTalk back.
Who says about the Orion VII?
-Hank
If MTA can save the RTS, why cant the other TAs? MTA has long been a customer of RTS, why did they still go to Orion V in 1993 if RTS is that successful? And why didn't other TAs continue to order newer RTS for replacement or expansion? Of course there are some reasons we all don't know like there might be some areas that the RTS didn't perform as well as the others. Yes, RTS has of course proven itself in large transits agencies.
But why can't our fellow bus fans open ourselves to other model of buses while the TAs can?.... :P
First, MTA only "went" to the Orion V in 1993 after much pressure to buy buses built in New York (even though most Orion assembly takes place in Ontario). Even after the first Orions were delivered, MTA continued to buy RTSs - over 1,500 more between 1993 and 1999.
Don't get me wrong - I like the Orion V and many many other types of buses (even the Gillig Phantom!), but when it comes to a transit operation as vital as MTA, it's not very smart to f**k around with your bus models. Just wait until the Orion VIIs start to come in and you'll see what I mean.
As far as other TAs go, none has the purchaing power like MTA. Plus, it does not help that the nation's second-largest TA (Los Angeles County MTA) has bad blood with NovaBUS. After the two MTAs, next come CTA and NJ Transit. CTA is buying NovaBUS LFSs, and NJ Transit would have bought hundreds of suburban RTSs as well as more transit RTSs.
I truly think that the RTS could have survived in the marketplace, but there are some interesting (that's being delicate) business practices as NovaBUS, and at the end of the day, that's what really killed the RTS.
> First, MTA only "went" to the Orion V in 1993 after much pressure to buy buses built in New York (even though most Orion assembly takes place in Ontario). Even after the first Orions were delivered, MTA continued to buy RTSs - over 1,500 more between 1993 and 1999.
If that is the case, then I have nothing to say...But MTA did go to New Flyer after Orion and Nova Bus.
> Don't get me wrong - I like the Orion V and many many other types of buses (even the Gillig Phantom!), but when it comes to a transit operation as vital as MTA, it's not very smart to f**k around with your bus models. Just wait until the Orion VIIs start to come in and you'll see what I mean.
I think it is wise to have several models in the fleet. If there is some serious problems with one particular model, there are still other buses that you can count on. Just like NJ Transit, aren't they having problems in dealing with the parts of their Metros? From a passneger point of view, I wouldn't want to ride the same bus everytime even though they are Gillig Phantoms. It would be exciting to guess what kind of bus will serve my next trip. BTW, is it still early to make conclusions that Orion VII is a failure? Did RTS experience some problems in their early production before becoming that successful?
> As far as other TAs go, none has the purchaing power like MTA. Plus, it does not help that the nation's second-largest TA (Los Angeles County MTA) has bad blood with NovaBUS. After the two MTAs, next come CTA and NJ Transit. CTA is buying NovaBUS LFSs, and NJ Transit would have bought hundreds of suburban RTSs as well as more transit RTSs.
If other TAs do not have the power, then how did NABI 416, Gillig Phantom, Neoplan AN440, and Orion V these standard floor buses manage to stay in the game? I agree there might be something wrong between Nova Bus and the TAs. But are these problems associated with the new RTS?
As a passenger, I don't care who makes the bus, I only want it to arrive and depart on-time, clean, get me to my destination safely.
-Hank
>>> I only want it to arrive and depart on-time, clean, get me to my destination safely. <<<
I would add to that, be easy to board and exit, i.e. low floor and wide entry, the main reason for the demise of the RTS.
Tom
Low floor buses are nice but they reduce capacity substantially. Many of NYC's bus routes can't afford that sort of loss without major service increases to make up -- and where's that money going to come from?
I think it is wise to have several models in the fleet. If there is some serious problems with one particular model, there are still other buses that you can count on.
This is an excellent point and I agree 100%. I don't claim that MTA's fleet should be 100% RTS, I just wanted to make it clear that for a while, they were buying different types of buses in the same year.
Just like NJ Transit, aren't they having problems in dealing with the parts of their Metros?
Any transit system can make that claim about Flxibles. Believe me, if a TA needs Flxible parts, they can get them. There are a few large TAs which have not lost faith in Flxibles, and have kept theirs in good condition despite the increasing challenge of getting parts.
From a passneger point of view, I wouldn't want to ride the same bus everytime...
Agreed once again. Thing is, a lot of TAs now try assign only one or two types of bus to each garage. That's why you'll always get an RTS on the M11 and always an Orion on the M7.
BTW, is it still early to make conclusions that Orion VII is a failure?
Nope. The bus failed the shaker test, scored poor marks on various other assessments, and did not need over 100 of MTA's requirements when on trial. That on top of Orion's reputation for general shoddiness, and I think we have a recipe for an awful vehicle. Let's use common sense, here.
Did RTS experience some problems in their early production before becoming that successful?
It did, yes. But in its first few years, very few large TAs purchased the RTS. It was not until the problems were worked out that it made apperances in NYC and LA. The most problematic RTSs were the -01 and -03 models built between 1977 and early 1980. The very biggest TAs did not start buying RTSs until 1981.
This differs greatly from the Orion VII, where no TA, large or small, has used it in service. Transit in every city is important, but it would be a lot better to have 15 Orion VIIs fail in Long Beach than it would be to have 300 VIIs fail in New York. (I use Long Beach because that was the first property to use RTSs.)
I'm not saying that the Orion VII will never be a good bus, but a huge order at the largest TA in the country is not exactly an appropriate testing ground.
I dodnt know the delay with the TA ordering new buses-i mean, LIBUS is getting newer Orion V-so whats the main delay?
It might be premature to assume that the Orion VII will become another Grumman 870. Orion along with Setra and Thomas Dennis are now part of Daimler Chrysler Commercial Buses N.A. Daimler has always been known for producing a quality product and for having strict quality control standards. Even Chrysler automobiles, which have long suffered from poor build quality, have improved considerably since becoming part of Daimler.
We obviously won't see how the Orion VII holds up until it operates 24/7 in NYC. I personally would be surprised however if the bus turns out to be a total lemon.
HI!! yes they are gone
Since when?
within the last few weeks
What replaced them and why were they removed from service? I saw nothing about this on WMATA's website.
orion and flx from other depot 30ft
Is there or are there any direct bus routes that go from Staten Island into New Jersey, without having to go into Manhattan?
The Red and Tan bus company runs two routes between Staten Island and Jersey City, NJ - the 122 and the 144. The website only has info on the 144.
http://www.redandtan.com/index.htm
You would think some route from southern Staten Island over the Outerbridge Crossing to Middlesex County, NJ would be a good idea. Itr would make Staten Island less isolated, generally make the area more accessible to intercity transit.
:-) Andrew
Well, from what I gather, Staten Islanders wanted to be "isolated" anyways!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
We knew it was an island when we moved here! Everybody owns at least one car. So many jobs have moved from downtown NYC to Jersey City since 9/11/01 that NYCT was approached by local elected officials about establishing express bus routes between SI and Jersey City. NYCT gave some excuse about only being able to run buses through, but not make stops in NJ, which has been disputed. Red and Tan runs those two routes, the 122 along Hylan Blvd, Clove Road and Forest Ave (a long trip), and the 144 along Richmond Road.
Everybody owns at least one car.
Not true. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 20% of Staten Island households don't own a single vehicle. Among the 30% who don't own homes, over half don't own a single vehicle.
144 runs up Richmond Ave, not Richmond Rd.
-Hank
Does the bus connect with the SIRT?
It's nice being ignored.
It's nice not looking at this board for two days after I posted. Check a map. There's your answer.
-Hank
I DON'T HAVE A MAP!
I suggest you look up the website for New Jersey Transit. Also an atlas for NYC and the neighboring area in NJ would help.
Thanks. But I'll just find out for myself when I get into town next week.
The 2002 Model Trolley & Transit Show
Presented by the NYC Model Transit Association &
Saint Augustine of Canterbury School
See models of NYC Transit equipment of all scales, model trolleys from around the country, model buses, operating layouts,
model dealers and manufacturers, memorabilia tables, books, photos
and much more!
The theme for this event will be "Farewell to the Redbirds". Models, photos, books, videos and even a souvenir coffee mug featuring these cars will be available!
Friday, May 31 - 3pm till 10pm (for set up only)
Saturday, June 1 - 9am till 5pm
At-
St. Augustine of Canterbury School
45 Henderson Road
Kendall Park, NJ 08824
Admission - $10 per family
Dealer Tables - $30 per table
Please see our website for more details & photos, at -
http://home.att.net/~sctransit/NYCMTA1.htm
-Steve Olsen
Saw 8533 repowered on the B16 last week.
And I also saw 8560 repowered last week on the B67.
And I also saw 8101 repowered couple weeks ago on the B40.
Any more repowers please post.
Joe.
I know that at ENY: 8100,01,08,09,10,17,23,26 to name a few.
For those that may have gotten some wierd password screen for TransiTALK, our server company has changed to more powerful servers and the security measures have changed, I'm in contact with them now about the security measure placed on TransiTALK, the passward crap should be moved in a day or two. Please check periodically, because we are still in the moving process, the company thought that it would be in our best interest to secure the site, I'm give them to go ahead to lift the gate!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I haven't visited yet, but just go to your root directory and delete the .htaccess file. (Some .htaccess files are also located in the public_html dir- servers vary) That's all you have to do to remove the prompt.
Thanks!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Isn't TT on a IIS server?
Everything works for me :-)
I know everything is back to norm! And Transitalk is no longer Cool Blue, we are RED HOT!!!! Peep the new scheme!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
More new Orion V CNG's are popping up at LI Bus.Saw 368 at the Long Beach bus terminal today (took a picture of it, if anyone is interested), and rode 364. Bus is exactly the same as the newer Orions 288 and up, Series 50, windows that open at the top,etc.
It is sure nice to see 364's seats all clean, and smelling like new (nothin like that new bus smell!). It will only be a matter of time before the riders trash it (magic marker, stained seats,etc).
"this is my bus, so clean the dirt off your clothes and don't eat anything or I'm gonna send you to the moon!"
Hey, can you send me a pic? Since when did LI BUS get new buses? What is the roster going up to?
Let me know your email address (it isn't posted) and I'll send it to you. You can also download it from my Yahoo Group pictures folder, though you'll have to join, it is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/railsandtrains
LI Bus started getting new Orion V CNG's in late 2000. Unlike the older 6 cylinder Cummins engines and sliding windows, these buses used the Detroit Diesel Series 50 CNG version and have windows that open from the top (vent style).
The highest I've seen go up to 371 but probably go higher. This latest batch will probably be replacing the remaining diesel Orion V's. Most of the diesels are still usable but do leak alot in the rain. I just hope they keep a few for back up.
Do you think we'll ever get better weekend/evening transportation in bay ridge? express bus doesnt run on weekends. at nights the r train doesnt go to manhattan and n train doesnt run express.
you will get it if you all get together and demand mta provide weekend express bus service. in staten island local 726 and nyct riders have been sucessful in getting late night and sunday express bus service. my advice is get in touch with local 100 at ulmer park depot. on a side note thanks to dave for bringing bus talk back and anyone needing si bus info i will try to help.
While this is all well and good, the bottom line is that underground transportation is much more efficient, when operated correctly, than surface transportation in congested urban areas. An area like Bay Ridge, which fits that description, and has that "Manhattan" mentality with its many bars and clubs, should have its SUBWAY service improved. The "R" train should run 24/7 all the way in to Manhattan. Why should BUS service be improved, when the buses that already run can't even move some times, with all of the traffic and double parking and all?
Recently I accquired two Arkansas license plates with the designation "CITY BUS" printed across the bottom, both dated 1989, with the registration numbers OFC 727 and OFC 728. Is there any way to find out what town in Arkansas they're from? I think only Little Rock, Ft. Smith, and Texarkana even have any sort of bus service, so that narrows it down. Would the state department of motor vehicles or whatever have that kind of information?
It's a long shot, I know, but it's worth a try, and I also wanted to brag about my cool transit souvenirs. :)
Mark
Suggestion: Try and find some photos from other bus fans of transit buses in those cities. (Sorry I don't have any available, I did dispose of the entire transit bus 35mm slide collection in recent years).
Here's the site:
Le Bus 38
It's created by the drivers of RATP's bus route 38, in English, and a lot of fun.
Mark
>>> It's created by the drivers of RATP's bus route 38 <<<
If you check the attitude section of the site, you can see that things are the same all over the world.
Tom
I thank David for reopeing this message board and welcome back everybody onto this bus!
1st off. Lately Triboro Coach have been putting a RTS on the 1:15,3:30 to Midtown,2:00 PM to Forest Hills,and the 5:08 Pm trip to Forest Hills on the QM12. Today I rode the 1:15 PM QM12 trip to Midtown on a RTS #736 and there was a few people on it. It was going pretty slow on I-495 and the Midtown Tunnel and all the cars where going faster then #736. Triboro should not put RTS's on Express Lines.
2nd Off. A rare sighting on the M98 2 days ago. It was 8238 on the M98.
3rd Off. 404 and 437 are now back on the QSC Express Lines. I saw #437 on the QM3 and rode #404 on the QM4.
More later.
About the first thing, I guess Triboro had a few problems with their Orion CNG's (no suprise) so they had to use an RTS.
About the 3rd thing, I thought one of those Deere buses used to run on a local route.
Why were they out of service? I sure hope they didn't put a Series 50 in it!
1. 736 has been an Express Bus on more than 1 occasion. I saw that bus going down Lexington Ave around 42 St-QM12 and 1 other time on the QM10 on Queens Blvd at 58 St.
2. 8238 I assume was borrowed from 126 St to go onto the M98.
Saw 8239 on the M31?! Thursday.
3. 404 and 437 aren't the only 400s on express lines at QSC. They're plenty of others there too.
#736 QM12
#8239 M31
#468 QM1
Anything that Triboro Coach does in line with equipment assignments should not suprise anyone. All I can say is that perhaps the driver of bus 736 has a job that does trips on a local route before or after he does his trips on the QM12. It would be equally wrong to assign a CNG Orion to him if he indeed does have trips on a local route. Yet as we all know, Triboro regularly assigns Orion CNG's to local routes. The job should be written that the driver gets a swap during the day. Or perhaps the driver and the dispatcher who assigns the buses have a deal going that the driver likes to drive RTS's and his pal the dispatcher accommodates him. However, the premium fare paying riders have to ride an a crappy old bus for their money!
Look at GBL. They have only 6 coaches-701-702, 719-722. They have well more than 6 buses used for their Express Routes (QM15 QM16 QM17 QM18 and QM23). In fact I rode 5524 on Thursday and the people on the bus were talking about how dirty the bus was. There was a notice that they can't wash the buses because of the water shortage in NYC.
5524 was a pretty slow mover and rattly. 1144 and 1156 were also used on the Express Routes. I've seen 289 628 633 and 650 used there too.
On the other hand, Triboro used their SUBURBAN Orions more on local lines than Express. Rode 3065 on the Q18 and 3003 on the Q19B recently. They have 600S 700S 1183-1184, 2000S REPOWERED 2100S 2800S and IF NECESSARY A 3000 to take care of their local lines. But the 3000s are more of an occurence on locals than Express. Why is this? Are the RTS giving them so many problems?
Yet I've seen 678 on the QM10-go figure.
So Triboro is not alone with getting junk on their Express Routes.
#1144 QM15
#3065 Q18
736 have been on the QM12 for like about 1 Month and 1 Week aready. No trips on the QM12 is tied into a Local Route. I know somebody from Triboro Coach. This person name is Albert and he's do the 11 AM Trip to Midtown and the 11:53 AM to Forest Hills everyday. He said to me that Classics and Orions are allowed on Express Lines and nobody wite up that bus yet since it should not be on that line.
#736 belongs to this person name Ossie. But it was a lady driveing 736 when I got on it on the QM12 that day.
The new MCI order should be here in less than two months. What is going to happen to the Orion/Nova Suburbans? Will they retire as express buses?
BTW, its great to be back. Its been awhile since I looked at BusTalk. Also Orion # 518 and 520 are at QV for those of you who didn't know.
-
B13- RTS Nova #9172
New Quote:
If your a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
Orion/Nova Suburbans will not be retire & they going to put on local lines. Also i already know that NYCT Orion #518 & #520 been in QV Depot for long while.
David
NYCT/MaBSTOA
TCO/OP
Add 517, 519 and 521 to that list also. I rode 521 on the Q46 on Wednesday and the bus has a whole bunch of defects on it: Front and rear door alarms would go off, farebox, destination sign just to name a few. Also 521 still has CS stickers on it. Question is: Why are buses 517-521 at QV? Yes they're short of buses but I think CS is shorter on buses than QV is.
Also rode 110 on the Q32 and that bus was NOT repowered yet. 106 was also on the Q32 not repowered. Bring on the MCI's. At least we'll get some comfort on our local lines.
#521 Q46
#110 Q32
#1979 X17
order has already begun to arrive as 2825 was supposedly delivered at the end of april. orion buses at castleton already see much local service and perhaps some will be transferred to yukon to replace the older rts fleet.
Among Fleet Changes.....There is supposed to be "Fleet Changes" to the new MCI order that is.
I was told that there is a possibility that the new MCI order (2825-2924) might have some of the NJT D4000/D4000N/D4000H/D4501 Cruiser Characteristics.
Being the cirle LED tail lamps and so forth. If this is true I highly doubt the MTA will opt for the Jake Brake (Though I wish they would, boy is that a wonderful sound).
I guess we can only wait and see!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
A Jake Brake is only a wonderful sound if you're on the bus and going downhill. I live a mile from the Outerbridge Crossing, and spend the day hearing the more improperly tuned ones. I can't imagine what it would be like to hear one going by every ten minutes as it came to a stop.
-Hank
For you maybe but I love it, inside, outside, all around!!!!! Especially if I'm driving the unit that's making the sound!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
i think they should install jacab depending on top speed and acc.
btw. what is the top speed of the nycmta mci bus any way
top speed is 58mph and who is this guy Jacob youre talking about?
why that's pretty slow for a bus with a engine bake.
you better believe it. on nj turnpike everyone including old lady in 1984 chevette is flying past you.
it seen to me that both new york and septa both hold their buses back in terms of speed.
oh i mean Jake Brake.
how many mci they sopposed to get
The Queens Division will get 50 MCI's. And Castleton will get the other 50.
yukon to get 2825-2829. 2825 has been delivered. castleton to get 2830-2849. ulmer park to get 2850-2874. queens division to get the remaining 50 to be divided amongst the three depots.
Hey, why is Ulmer Park getting more MCI's? Isn't 95 of them good enough for 4 express routes? Are they going to get new express routes?
4 EXPRESS ROUTES, ARE YOU INSANE!!!!
You now have the X25, X27, X28, X29, X37, X38 and I believe the X26 since I've seen a MCI on it once!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
<<<4 EXPRESS ROUTES, ARE YOU INSANE!!!!
You now have the X25, X27, X28, X29, X37, X38 and I believe the X26 since I've seen a MCI on it once!>>>
...but isn't the x26 a Quill route? Unless Quill runs MCIs from Ulmer Park on their Quill lines, how can an MCI from say Ulmer Park run on a Quill-assigned line? Eh, it's the TA, what can u do?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Ulmer Park has no part of the X26. It's entirely a Quill route.
David
x38 and x37 are only uptown branches of x28 and x27 really not any additional service. it appears they have enough mci buses for current service. perhaps someone from ulmer park knows what up will use another 25 for.
Believe me, I know all about the X37 and X38...
The X29 route uses 14 RTS coaches at present. They will be replaced in the fall by MCIs, so that's 14 plus, say, 2 spares (for a total of 16) right there.
David
If I can dig my this photo of more than a one time occurance of MCIs on the X29 I will post it here. You guys just need to stand on Madsion Avenue for just a full rush hour. Apparently you guys are missing a great deal of stuff that the TA is doing, that I guess, they Aren't supposed to be doing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I am VERY well aware that MCIs appear on the X29 from time to time. In the morning, it's supposed to be nothing but RTS buses, because every available RTS is supposed to be on the X27/X37 or X28/X38, where the schedules are designed based on each bus having 57 seats instead of 39. In the afternoon, there is less express service than there is in the morning, so more MCIs should be available; therefore, X29 Bus Operators are permitted to pull out MCIs in the afternoon. Five X29 buses pull into Quill in the morning, and they are all supposed to be RTSs, so there should be five RTSs on the X29 in the afternoon -- more if insufficient MCIs are available.
I have seen MCIs on the X29 in the morning. I've also seen people shoehorned into a RTS on the X28 or X38 that was supposed to be a MCI.
David
Are MCIs supposed to be on the X26?
No, they're not supposed to be on the X26. Quill, which operates the X26, has no MCIs assigned to it.
David
Ok so no one is explaining to me what I saw! All i'm asking for is a logical explaination to that MCI I saw on the X26?!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I think the explanation posted by Hank Eisenstein is plausible -- it wasn't a X26, it was a not-in-service bus SIGNED X26 as a gag. That, or the bus was signed X6 or X16 or X25 or X27 or X28 or X29 and Trevor simply didn't see what he thought he saw (no offense to Trevor).
David
I've seen an MCI on the X26, with passengers.
Well, maybe they were experimenting OR short on buses. That's a possibilty, right Trevor?
Who knows with the TA! As far as I am concerned anything goes with New York City Bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Then someone PLEASE explain the MCI I saw???? Or is a Quill driver, unauthorizingly, using a lay-ed over MCI for his run, because I have perfect vision!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
It's possible that a Staten Island or Brooklyn driver was pressed into service to cover that particular run. While rare, it's not an uncommon practice. A few weeks ago an M57 driver out of 126th Street Depot, which as we all know is a TA depot, was pressed into service on the M72 line which is a MaBSTOA line.
It may be possible, I'm not totally up on TA practices as wherein you can throw drivers, All I remember was the bus being a 2700 Series with about 6 people on it, all sitting in the front. Again, because at the time I didn't know what garage the X26 was assigned to, I didn't think twice to say it was Ulmer Park because it would fit wit the X25-X38 scheme they have.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.ocom
Last Sunday Morning while i was at MJQ Depot i saw only one MCI Bus & i couldn't even see the number or logo. Maybe MJQ Depot loan one MCI Bus for X26.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Wait, how can a MaBstoa Depot (M.J.Quill) already get to use MCI's? There haven't even got to the Queens Division yet. Are they already being tested at Quill?
-
B13- RTS Nova #5057
You sure the bus had a Quill logo? It's possible, because I'm sure we've all seen it, that an operator messed with the sign to display something to his liking while driving a shuttle back to SI. I can't count the number of buses lined up outside of Yukon with readings like 'Bx13 Yankee Std' or 'x8? Shea Stadium' on their destination signs, instead of 'Not In Service'
-Hank
I didn't even see the logo, I was driving my bus so I only got a front scan of the bus before having to stop short to avoid flattening a cab!
Trevor
Dude! Don't buff and drive!
-Hank :)
PS-I'm 100% sure the #@$%ing cab was at fault.
-Hank
Exactly.
Cleanairbus
Trev, I've seen 7046 on the X26C?! I forgot if there's a split of route or not. I believe that was the reason for Quill getting 9342-9344 from UP. No MCI's for Quill...yet?!
#9342 X26
#7046 X26C
I forgot Quill also received 1852 from QV. Saw it on 57 St last week with MJQ Decals.
#1852 X90
Technically speaking, UP has only three express routes that bus operators pick from. As David mentioned, the X37 and X38 are uptown versions of the X27 and X28 and are found on the the same schedule. Operators pick on the X27/37 and the X28/38 and the X29. Maybe David can explain this better, but the X25 is built in to all three routes as a uptown/downtown link.
Mark
At the moment, the X25 is built ONLY into the X29 schedule. In the morning, an Operator will work an X29 trip, then deadhead to Grand Central and go into X25 service, then run off after the X25 trip. In the afternoon, an Operator will pull out to Vesey Street & North End Avenue (Battery Place & Greenwich Street before the World Trade Center fell), do a trip on the X25, then deadhead to E. 57th Street & Madison Avenue for a trip on the X29, and pull in.
David
I thought that was on the X27 runs?
Was once. Isn't now.
David
It appears they MTA wants to simplify engine maint. by putting Series 50 in all the buses. How many buses are left with the 6V-92TA?
I'll sure miss them when they're gone.
The series 50 sounds like a truck, doesn't it? Shakes alot too.
Is there any sort of NY State Law that forbids anyone under the age of 16 to sit in the front row of a motorcoach?
AFAIK, there's not, and one driver claims there is one(regardless of the fact that other drivers for the company don't abide by this "law")...
?
I've been doing quite a bit of research on Federal Motorcoach law, NYSDOT/NYCDOT bus law and related agenda, and have yet to read any reference to passenger age. The only references to age pertains to the operator of the bus, which in most cases is 18.
If you'd like, I can send you some links where you can continue your search. Email me and let me know.
Got back yesterday from vacation while touring WMATA and SEPTA. I don't know if it was mentioned here or anywhere yet, but when I visited the SEPTA Transit Museum at 1234 Market, I noticed something new.
The front of ACF/Brill bus #1312 sticking out of the wall only a few steps from the restored PCC. If you visited their museum store, right by the entrance there was pictures of two ACF/Brill buses in Conetsoga Transortation colors, weather beaten and dented. There is a Duncan farebox where you could drop your donation for restoration of the buses.
#1312 was given the same total restoration as the PCC nearby. It's painted in the same PTC colors and the paint job is fantastic. The thing is, only the from of the bus, up to the front door is jutting out of the wall. What happened to the rest ? The signage is a reproduction, interior is restored also. If you haven't seen it yet, drop by a check it out.
Bill "Newkirk"
Yeah,s aw it...the rest of the bus is not there, but just a wall and a picture of the inside. The bus was preserved, but the front end of that bus was chopped off and used as a museum piece, rather than the entire bus preserved and placed in the lower level of the building. Went there and saw it May 11 and got a pic, too...
You can request the pic by e-mailing me at carlwal@hotmail.com.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
From what I understand, the Brill bus in question is actually an ex-Conestoga Transportation (Lancaster, Pa.) bus salvaged by SEPTA a few years ago. I don't have exact details in front of me, but there is a sign next to the bus detailing the history of the Brills in Philadelphia and the bus in particular.
On a recent visit to NYC, I saw several NYCT RTS buses in Jamaica that were missing the ubiquitous advertising stickers on the front. Instead, a small MTA circle logo was featured where the ad would normally appear. The buses looked to be freshly painted, so I'm assuming that the ads simply hadn't been placed on these vehicles yet.
Do all New York City Transit buses have the logo on the front? Every bus I've seen in recent years have had a front ad for AOL, radio stations, etc.
Jim D.
They all have the MTA logo but it is covered up by the advertisement.
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there is an articulated bus presently at flatbush depot for testing. from what i understand it was put through the wash . when the union found out about it they stopped all activities with the bus.it is from gunhill.
supervision is now training on these buses. from what i have heard flatbush is to start operating articulates sometime next year
Do anybody know how do I get to this years MTA Bus Roadeo? I know it's in Floyd Bennett Field and I should take the Q35 and ask the driver to drop me off before the tolls. Is there going to be a Shuttle Bus from Flatbush Ave 2 Station to the Roadeo in Floyd Bennett Field?
Yes. It's called the Q35
There would be a Shuttle from the Subway Station to the Roadeo?
And also is anybody going to MTA Bus Roadeo on June 1? I am going butI need some help by if the MTA would do a Shuttle between the Subway Station and the Roadeo? And if not,Is it safe to cross to the other side of the road to get to the roadeo? And how do I end up getting a Q35 back to the Subway Station?
You can take the Q53 to B116 St-take the Q35 at Newport Ave and B116 St. Once over the Marine Park Bridge, get off-roadeo should be right around there. As of now I MAY be there I MAY not. Next week I'll know for sure if I'm a go or not. Hope to see ya all there.
#3067 Q53
#233 Q35
whats the deal with the old Orion V buses that LI Bus has(#581-#650)-if these are to be replaced, why doesnt the private lines get a hold of them, unless they are owned by Nassau County.
The older diesel Orion V's will be replaced, this already starting with the new 360+ series order. I dunno what will happen to the diesel Orion V's, they do run fine but leak alot in the rain.
They should go to the privates, but I heard somewhere they might end up in China?!
Hey, what is the roster now for the LI Bus? I thought it stopped at 359? Now how far does it go....399?
The highest I've seen is 381 but they probably go higher.
And these all have the Detroit Diesel 50 series engines?
Yes, the Detroit Diesel Series 50-G (CNG version)
I won second place in the Montgomery County National Public Works Week Photo Contest with this submission:
It will be on display tomorrow at the opening of the ethanol fuel station at the Gaithersburg Garage. It will also be on display at "other locations that DPWT sees fit" although their website is not one of them.
#1905 and #1901 i saw assigned to Ulmer Park depot recently. I know the #1900's are mostly assigned to either Yukon or Castleton depot. Did Ulmer Park take some of Yukon's older MCI buses as the newere one comning in? I thought the MCI were going to either Jamaica,Westside or Queens Villiage. Whats going on?
B64-NOVABUS-#9303
Saw 1904 on X27 a week ago. I thought I was seeing things but apparently wasn't. I think they're on loan b/c I saw 2774 at CS Depot used for training purposes. IDK if 2774 is still there now or not. Also heard that there was 1 at QV recently. What about JAM?
#1904 x27
#2774 x51
Sunday afternoon at 30th Street, I saw buses off duty signed for the EL SHUTTLE. There was one D40LF and several NABIs. This was the first time I had seen a SEPTA D40LF in person (except for the one I saw from the Acela Express near Chester) and I must say, they are ugly. The backs are extremely unattractive with the slant and the destination sign rising up out of nowhere. I also saw these buses on the 44 and 52.
Are they placing the orange LED signs (I assume they aren't Balios but that other company) on all the buses? Many Neopolan Artics had them.
I saw my first WMATA C40LF today. It was on the 80 at the intersection of 2nd and H Sts, NW. I could not see the number. I wonder how long they will leave the clouds on the CNG tank.
I did not take any pictures of any of the things mentioned above. I only took about 15 pictures of Amtrak operations over the course of the weekend.
The rear of all New Flyers are slanted, but SEPTA's is distinctive because they are completely flat and smooth. The reason is the placement of the roof-mounted air-conditioners. On other cities Flyers, the air-conditioner is in that space, hence the vents and the Route number box on them, (like the WMATA, CT Transit and NYCTA Flyers). The route-number box, rising from the roof on the SEPTA models, give the buses a distinction never seen in other cities, and I think it makes the SEPTA buses unique-looking.
I don't think that SEPTA will replace the signs on the NEOPLAN artics with the Twin-Vision signs seen on the Flyers because they are still somewhat new. But don't be surprised if they pop up on a NABI or two, maybe it might be seen on an Eldorado. I hear they like the fact that they have no moving parts, and that makes it easier on the maintenance crews. Nothing pisses off a maintenance crew like broken destinantion signs.
By the way, I seen some of those LED signs transplanted into a number of Flxible buses in Baltimore.
I have a couple of pics of Metro's New Flyer bus. when I get them developed, I`ll post them on the TransiTALK MSN Site.
The fleet number on these C40LF's are 2300 to 2463.
no the twinvision led sign are only on new flyer.it would be nice be nice to see them on the nabi,neoplan and eldorado.
Don't all new flyers have a slant back?
I saw one on an Articulated bus, it must have been either a 1 or a 65. It was on City Avenue.
7101 was a prototype for the orange sign and neoplan
It had to have been the 65, since the 1 operates out of Comly and Frankford, neither of whom have any artics.
On a sort of related note, Frankford did get their 40 D40LFs (5501-5540) and Comly is in the process of getting their 45 low floors (5541-5585). I've seen numbers as high as 5546 on Comly routes, mainly the 14/20 and 58, though I did see 5543 operating on the 24 the other day. The 5500-series New Flyers are equipped with bike racks, as will the 5600-series set to arrive next year. SEPTA is planning to add 400 more bike racks to their buses over the next year, most likely on the NABIs.
The only Neo artic that has the TwinVision All-LED sign is 7101; the only other Neo with that sign is 3200, which was also the test bus for the TwinVision LeDOT sign now used on the Neo artics and ElDorados. I would guess that the TwinVision LED signs will be the sign of choice for SEPTA for the forseeable future, however I don't think any other older buses will be retrofit with those signs.
While i was on reserve at MJQ Depot in the morning & i took a walk around the depot. First i saw NovaBus Express #9344 with MJQ Depot Logo & also i saw TMC-RTS #4883.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
My mom rode #4883 on the Q46 Friday Morning
Buses #9342-9344 are at MJQ because of the NEW X26 bus route.
Just mintues ago i spoke to my father who is a B/O at MJQ Depot & told me that Few Artics Buses will be putting on M102 line starting this friday.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
Are there additional artics at MJQ? They can't take off the other routes, can they?
Saw on and rode one today!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
M101 New Flyer #1060
For anyone who wants to see my pics, please email me, carlwal@hotmail.com
CORRECTION...M102 New Flyer #1060
You had me thinking there for a second. A D60HF on the M101?!! Something that would help the bus move crosstown on 125th Street?
Nope. This is the NYCTA; things are too good to be true here.
How would an artic have an easier time moving crosstown? They don't on 86th and 79th. (As I type this, I'm recovering from an M79 ride this afternoon.)
You had to recover from an M79 ride? What was it? The left from 81st onto Columbus that all traffic must take? The right from Amsterdam onto narrow, perpetually double-parked 81st? The dozens of people who board at Broadway and get off at Amsterdam- or likewise, who board at Lex and get off at Madison? Seems like a lot of riders on the crosstown routes that go through the park aren't even going through the park themselves.
As we discussed on Sunday afternoon, both the M79 and 86 seem to suffer from the infusion of Artics (which are really a bus-and-a-half, NOT two buses) that are perceived as an increase of service on those lines, when if fact they represent a DEcrease. It also seems to take people a lot longer to get on and off Artics- especially the people who ride only two blocks (as noted above) and walk all the way from the back to the front door to exit, hence causing more delays.
I didn't ride the 79 or 86 much before they went Artic. Was the service and crowding this bad when regular RTS served them? It doesn't seem quite so bad on the 66 and 96, which are still RTS. Of course, when there are parades or street fairs- as there seem to be EVERY weekend- you might as well just walk.
Maybe it's the fact that I ran from 84th to 81st to catch the bus I saw turning onto Amsterdam (with the longer headways now in place, I didn't want to miss it) and spent the next half hour sweating because all the seats by windows that could be opened were taken, and both times I tried to move to newly vacated window seats, I was cut off. Maybe it's the fact that we sat through two full cycles of the light at CPW (we were ready to go after the first cycle, but the B/O opened up again to let another passenger on as the light turned green, and others followed until the green light was stale, and for some reason many B/O's are unwilling to go on stale greens). Maybe it's the fact that my finger was bleeding and I had no tissues (not the TA's fault, of course, but it was compounding my discomfort).
I used to ride the M86 (M18) and M79 (M17) every day, to elementary school and to high school, respectively. (I graduated in 1992.) Waits were shorter and buses moved much, much faster.
When RTS coaches were on the M79, I know for a fact from my own riding experience, it was bad! The Artics paned it out a little but not by much, also the old RTS frequency for M79 has returned. And its still bad, the MTA is going through a VERY huge surge in Ridership. And with the current new bus crisis, its just not helping!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
To clarify my earlier post -- crowding was worse before the artics, but I'll take a crowded but fast trip over a roomy but slow one any day.
(The speed problem isn't entirely due to the artics -- it's also due to increases in crosstown traffic and double parking.)
What defines bad? I define bad as the trip taking, on average, about 10 minutes longer due to the fact the stops are now longer. The bus stops reduced the number of spaces to park, so more cars are double parking, creating congestion. The only advantage to all this is if a bus is at Third Avenue, and you are on the south side of 79th, you can walk to Lexington from Third, cross 79th, and cross Lexington, and chances are the bus won't be even waiting to cross Lex yet. It used to be if you were near Third on the south side of 79th and the next bus had crossed 2nd, you might not make it, even at Lex. Now it is a guarentee.
I'm still disappointed that the WB stop at Broadway was moved from the east side to the west side of the street, and that happened way back when the M17 became the M79 and the old loop (79th to Broadway to 81st to West End to 79th) was eliminated.
The way the lights are timed, the bus usually has to stop before Broadway anyway. Then, by the time it gets across Broadway, the light's changed. Anybody trying to get to the NB M104 or NB 1/2 is set back two cycles. I learned quickly to get off at Amsterdam and walk; I'd usually reach Broadway as the M79 was pulling into its stop.
I find the M79 stop at Broadway heading east to be in a really stupid place. Anyone coming off the NB 104 has to go around the stairs to the subway, then cross both Bway and 79th Street. Luckily, the M79 waits most of the time but there are times it doesn't.
I agree that the EB stop is very inconvenient for those transferring from the NB M104, but it's equally convenient for those transferring from the SB M104.
Given Broadway's angle, I suspect there are more of the latter than the former. Those coming from the south are more likely to come up Amsterdam, where the transfer is exceptionally convenient.
Besides, that's the traditional location for EB Broadway stops on Central Park crosstown routes. The M96/106 violates it only because of the hill; the rest all stop west of Broadway.
Yeah, sorry about that...rode it on the M102 from 96th to 79th St...saw three M79s as I got off and took a few pics...
Rode another one today from 42nd to 116th/Lex. Got a pic...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
M102 New Flyer D60 #1022
I saw one heading S/B on lex approx 4:20 on the M102 #1063...
Ah, more...
Carlton
Cleanirbus
Noticed this bus running off to QV depot this morning......havent been paying much attention and updating the roster lately, but last i checked this bus was awaiting scrap....how did it come to be resurrected?
We need buses. RTS #4328 has been on and off the scrap line for months now. I believe it's gone. Last seen on the scrap line without many necessary body parts... but then again... who knows.
When we get our delivery of MCI coaches, the 92xx series express buses will move to local service.
So will 122 and the rest of the 600 series Orions there. Also perhaps 517-521 will go back to CS?
#521 Q46
The 4:51AM Shadow Traffic report on WINS mentioned that the M11 was being detoured due to a sewer line break on Riverside Drive between 135th and 145th Streets.
How often do the traffic reporting services (Shadow, Metro, etc.) specify the bus route(s) affected by problems such as this?
Whenever the responsible operating authorities notify them. Otherwise, it depends on the reporter knowing the area and mentioning a specific bus being detoured. Otherwise it's just 'expect mass-transit delays in the area'
-Hank
Quite frequently, I here the WB Morning New cast specifying bus and subway routes all the time! They even specified NJ Transit buses route once in a blue!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Can someone please post the Original to the Blitz Rebuild Numbers, PUHLEASE?????
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Trevor,
I don't have an answer for you but, I just wanted to let you know that I LOVE the new name. It is very appropos.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hi everyone!
Supposedly the Urban Transit Club's website will post these numbers along with the non-Blitz renumberings. Been waiting like 3 months now. I can't stand the suspense. :)
saw these out of service in the garage:
4756
4759
4762
and old faithfull #4497
hope this is a sign that other buses are on the way.
I have a xerox copy of the 1973 Motor Coach Age edition on Nassau County takeover of private bus lines. This edition has the pre-MSBA private company leading up to the first generation MSBA/MTA buses.
I am looking for a roster featuring post 100 series Fishbowls to present. Does any one have such a roster or direct me to a site that has one. Use my e-mail if need be.
Thanks,
Bill "Newkirk"
Try www.busweb.com They should have the oldest MSBA bus roster with what you need.
Thanks orion V
Bill "Newkirk"
I have a Johnson Model D farebox that was recently restored. I am looking for a three dial coin mech that will accept pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters and small tokens. If anyone has one or knows someone who does, please contact me by responding to my e-mail.
Thanks,
Bill "Newkirk"
Phoenix Transit (ATC Division of Valley Metro) Had Just Awarded a Merit award to a Operator for driving 25 years without a Insident Or Accident. The Drivers Operator Number Is 1 Out Of 661! This Driver Has Been On The Same Line & Its Varients For the same 25 Years, Route #3 Van Buren (Formally #3W & #3E) He started with a GM FLex Fishbowl, then alternating bewtween AMgeneral 48 & 51 Passenger & Grumman Flex 870. Then Switching to a New Flyer LF40, now on a 40 Ft NAMBI LF. Do you know of any other BUS operators who mach or come close to this description?
Highly unlikely for anyone who drives in NYC. It may be possible to go that long without a chargeable accident but dealing with the people in NY you will be filling out insident reports from time to time.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
www.transitalk.org
i dont think its plain bad driving. NYC is pretty much bus driver's hell. kay-bee, ur thoughts?
My Thoughts,
Being that I work for Rockland Coach/Coach USA I'm a victim to NYC traffic when I am given charters.
About two weeks ago I worked a Charter for the Book Expo at the Javits Center, taking attendents to and from Hotels on Lexington, 42nd St, 45th St and 3rd Avenue.
I tell you, I have Countless Cabs cut me off and I damn near killed a guy that ran in front of my bus as I was taking off from a light. I give much credit to the men and woman who operates buses in NYC on a daily, because that one day in NYC with a bus, I was ready to murder by about 1p and the charter was from 6:30am to 7pm.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Coach USA (Red & Tan and Transport Of Rockland) Operator
www.transitalk.org
Oooooohh, WATCH OUT NOW!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
its not easy and im not bragging but i went 17 years without a chargeable accident working as a bus operator for nyct. my last few years were spent driving staten island express buses. i was cut off daily and had several near misses with cabs. for this nyct gave me a watch and a ring at two dinners. one for 10 years accident free,the other for 15. they wouldnt even give me a day off with pay to attend the 15 year ceremony as they did for the 10yaers.
Being that I drive up and down 5th and Madison everyday I can say it is rough driving in Manhattan. At the same time it has made me a much better driver. My biggest problem is dealing with the cabs. They are the cause of most accidents and most of my stress. If I am still working for Liberty in 3 years (when we have another general pick) I will transfer over to the Bee Line and I wont pick the 4C.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
transitalk.org
Working for New Jersey Transit, I sometimes do the 84 line in Jersey City and North Bergen, this bus travels down Bergenline Ave in Union City, It is such a pain in the butt to get threw, between the Jitney Vans, cutting us off, kids blasting there systems, lookin at girls, it is just a straight up hassle going threw Bergenline Ave. Accidents occur there alot especially between the vans and the buses, Those vans kill each other and us for a passenger. But I haven't met one operator who hasn't had an accident on that line. It is just a risk taker line I guess. It is a pure hell. You got double parked cars, the vans and kids. 3 of the best combinations under one street. I say to you all Good Luck keeping a good record I am gonna try as best as I can!
Tony M.
New Jersey Transit
Bus Operator
I've driven in Manhattan out of Manhattanville, Brooklyn out of Gleason and in Queens at The Village. I don't know what's worse- the yellow cabs in Manhattan or the gypsy cabs and dollar vans in the outer boroughs. They all drive excessively offensively and without regard for the rules of the road. An operator who can go 20 years without an accident (or chargable accident) in this city deserves just praise. That means the operator said to hell with the schedule and placed safety first. Good for you.
Imagine going through an entire career operating a bus in NYC traffic without a chargable accident according to official TA accident policy:
http://www.qvdepot.com/policy/accident.html
me lmao. but really i have not had a an accident in 19 years . but because of thrown objects and other vandalisms i do not qualify.
Directed mostly at Trevor, but if anyone has an answer, go for it!
Just wondering if NJT passed on the ZF and is sticking with the B500R for the remainder of the D-series order, and what will happen to the one test coach.
The Test Is Still In Effect from what I was told, To this day I still don't know the exact Coach number, but I do know that its on the 197 everyday!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Coach USA Operator (Red & Tan and Transport of Rockland)
www.transitalk.org
theres a ten speed transmission?
Yes, ZF, the German transmission manufacturer, developed an automated 10-speed transmission that only uses the gears that the coach actually requires based on speed, load, and road conditions. It can actually skip gears if it doesn't need them.
while that's a lot of gears for a bus.
The idea is to keep the engine speed steady. The more gears you have, the more likely the engine can stay at an efficient rpm, while the transmission regulates the power and vehicle speed with the various gears. Most semis have 10-18 speed transmissions for the same reason; in fact, there is also a truck version of the AS-Tronic, available in 12 and 16 speeds.
what kind of engine does this prototype has.
All the NJT MCI D-series use the Detroit 60.
Any news on when (or if) Bus Fest 2002 will be held?
Jim D.
Saturday June 22nd. Behind Borough Hall in Brooklyn.
Peace,
ANDEE
Any chance it will be on a non-Saturday at some point in the future? Saturday is the one day of the week that I can guarantee that I can never attend, under any circumstances. At least five others at last year's festival (which was not on a Saturday, for a change) are in the same boat.
To enable the greatest number of people to attend, it should be sometimes on a Saturday, sometimes on a Sunday, sometimes on a holiday, and sometimes on a weekday (running into the evening).
Thanks! I'm going to try to attend this year's event ... aside from the opportunity to see some wonderfully restored buses, what else can I expect? Any bus rides? Any vendors selling bus/transit items?
(Sorry for all the questions).
Jim D.
I don't have specific details but my sources tell me that admission will be free.
Peace,
ANDEE
I hope I can make this year's Bus Fest. And don't foget today's the beginning of Fleet Week over at the Intrepid Museum in Manhattan. Still not sure if I'm gonna make the Roadeo next week or not. I think I'll have a better shot making BusFest than the Bus Roadeo.
Hope to finally meet some of the peeps behind the names.
#1979 X17
Where is that exactly? Is it far from the usual site, Schermerhorn between Court and Boreum? When you say Borough Hall I am thinking somewhere between Montague and Joroleman St.
It's 2 blocks from the Museum.
Peace,
ANDEE
i've heard so much about the bus fest and i was hoping to go last year but since i didnt know when it was,i missed it.hopefully i wont miss it this time.is it really gonna be on June 22nd? i wanna be absolutely sure.
TransiTALK has now begun the reopening of the NYC Transit Pages, NYC Bus section is now available BUT not fully completed. There is some goodies there to review. Enjoy
www.transitalk.org
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Coach USA Operator
I understand that the B-68 Coney Island Avenue route will be extended from Surf Ave/W. 5th Street to Stillwell Ave Terminal this summer.
Any truth to it
Thank You
I heard that too. This is being done for when the Q train is being cut back to Brighton Beach as part of Stillwell renovations.
been on the drawing board when they first set up construction of the stillwell terminal last year.
I spoke to a friend who drives the B41 and asked about the artic over there. This is what I got:
1. Bus # is 5508.
2. Right now it is being tested on turns around Kings Plaza and Grand Army Plaza.
3. I guess by statement #2, youll probably figured out which route itll be tested on first. For those that dont know, the B41.
4. It is not being welcomed by Flatbush B/O's. There are many reasons behind this. Im sure many B/O's that post on this site and/or operated these buses can elaborate.
Anybody with more info, please feel free to share.............
If any of you ever look at the Kings Plaza U-turn it is a doozy, 2-3 times as hard as the whole Grand Army Plaza deal. I can't picture an Artic getting around that turn, and with that hellish traffic. Please keep me posted.
I know about KP turn. I was a regular B46 rider when I used to live in Crown Heights. I know the RTS and I guess the New Flyers sometimes could have a hard time turning over there. I dont want to start any speculations here, but I know of a turn on the B46 the artics wouldnt make. Bway/Malcolm X Blvd. On the B44 it would probably be Fulton St/NY Ave.
Your probably referring to the I beams supporting the El running along Broaday. It is a rather tight turn to make on the B46 but as long as the cars don't pull up past the light when they have the red on Broadway, the turn can be made with little difficulty. I remember making that turn myself when I drove the B46 back in 1994, and it was never really a problem as long as you were very careful. The artic is supposed to make almost any turn a standard bus can make, so I don't think that would be a problem for the artic at that location.
Regarding Fulton st and NY ave on the B44. The biggest problem over there would be double parked cars. However even with the double parkers, the RTS's usually make the turn with no problems so if NYPD and traffic enforcement do their jobs, the Artic should not have much of a problem.
BIG AL
BIG AL, I do not mean to sound offensive but were you the one saying that Brooklyn would not see ANY artics because of the B/O's refusal or something? DO you support the Artics coming to Brooklyn?
No, it wasn't me saying Brooklyn would never see Artics. I may have said it would be a long time till Brooklyn see's Artics. I believe I did say at one time Jamaica depot would never see Artics, mainly because of it's size. There would be no room to store the Artics in the depot. I fully support the Artics coming to Brooklyn. The B41 and B44 are the top 2 candidates in all of Brooklyn that needs them.
It is possible the B/O's may frown upon them mainly because Artics cut runs. Less runs means less seniority which is the name of the game for everybody who works for Transit.
BIG AL
Ok, thanks for the response, Big Al. Im not a regular artic rider. I only rode them on the Bx4, 12, 39, M79 and M86. Most of the time there were no turns involved.
B46#5508???
for those who dont know big al is now part of management as an sld. i dont know if hes changed his thinking on artics in bklyn. i know the turn at kings plaza. its not amatter of hitting a car but how many the artic can wipe out. i drove b41 in 1979.
SLDs (Surface Line Dispatchers for the uninitiated) are not managers. They are supervisors and are union members.
David
uninitiated/ i just retired after 22 years as bus operator. while they are indeed union members i still would consider them management. they are required to undergo random drug testing. supt while not union sill belong to an asssociation on the property. i spent 6 weeks as an sld at 126 st and left due to the low pay and horrid commute.
Sorry if I offended by using the word "unitiated." Since this is a message board and not a series of e-mails, people who aren't current or former NYCT employees might be reading. I am aware of "hudson"'s Bus Operator title, though I was not aware of his recent retirement and I congratulate him now.
If the association being referred to (that superintendents belong to) is the Transit Managers' Benevolent Association, I don't believe that organization has rights to make a collective bargaining agreement with NYCT; at this point it's more a fraternity than anything else.
David
thank you david.you are right about tmba. i left transit nov 1,2001 after 22 years plus another 8 years as a welfare caseworker. i felt i had seen everything this sometimes seamy but great city had to offer.
Rest assured I have not changed my thinking on anything since I have been promoted to sld. I am still just as concerned for a bus operator's rights as I was when I was a B/O. I am not one who will forget where I came from.
Actually, (concerning David's post), I as most other sld's will tell you, consider myself a part of management. The sld is actually the person who manages the bus lines. Very little management is done on the part of the superintendents, other than making sure accident or briefs are filled out correctly and making sure the dispatchers are at the posts making the proper adjustments to keep the bus lines running smoothly.
I would consider the sld a part of middle management while the Supt. and above are more upper management. The sld still retains his civil service status while Supt and higher loose that important title.
BIG AL
Dispatchers are supervisors. We are not management although management will try to convince you that you are. Dispatchers have pick rights, seniority rights and union representation in disciplinary hearings. I do not consider myself a manager but a supervisor.
anymore thoughts on that. interesting difference of opinion between big al and myself and mr mabstoa and david, im glad to hear big al remembers his routes no pun intended.
dispatchers don`t have a union. you guys have an association.
WRONG!
TA dispatchers have the SSSA, and OA have the TSO local 106 of the TWU.
Our union bargains for us during contract talks and we have the same pick and seniority rights as the bus operators.
Sorry Newflyer, but the Subway Surface Supervisors Association is a union, although I would not consider them as strong as the unions the bus operators have. We do have basically the same rights as the bus operators.
For possibly the first time Mr.Mabstoa and myself are in a sort of agreement, if you can call it that. Officially, which is what Mr. Mabstoa is referring to, we are not managers, but supervisors. I was referring to an unofficial capacity. The dispatchers are really the ones who are managing the bus lines. Many times when I am working my shift, there is not even a superintendent actively working. Also, I believe the T/A dispatchers have a few different responsibilities than their O/A counterparts. For instance, I was told that during an accident investigation, the superintendent in O/A does all the paperwork while the sld in T/A does all the paperwork. The superintendent in T/A only overlooks it. Maybe Mr. Mabstoa can confirm that however if it's true, then during an accident investigation, that is one time I would rather be working for Mabstoa.
BIG AL
I never knew we ever disagreed BIG AL.
Anyway a OA SLD handles a investigation and a Super who is available may come by to check it over but all diagrams and reports and done by the SLD.
When its very busy however and all cars are busy then Supers will do reports to help out with the calls, but basically the way management is growing at TA supers are basically glorified dispatchers. With the creation of Assistant General superintendents and the ever growing number of General Supers in the depots its starting to appear to me that TA is like the war on drugs, its a jobs creation program, everyone trying to justify their existence here.
The best part of it is that even if a SLD works 30 minutes over 8 he gets paid time and half, while supers and up are salaried and get nothing. During the 9/11 attack and weeks therafter, supers were working 6 day weeks and 12 hour days for nothing extra.
I'll stand on my corner for 21 more years Thank you.
Hey Big Al, if you have MTS radios call me on 741520.
I'll remember that number and give you a call this coming week when I'm back from vacation. Question, are you in Manhattan or Bronx division? I remember you posted what corner you work but I forgot. I believe it was Manhattan. When I was in the sld classes, I was trained by Supt.Oppenheimer. Everybody calls him Opp for short. You probably know him since he is with the O/A division. Anyway, he was the one that told us that the Supts. handle most of the accident investigations. Perhaps he was giving us outdated information like most of the sample forms he gave us.(LOL) Anyway, my MTS on Tues & Wed is 740387/Brooklyn Div.
We'll be in touch soon.
BIG AL
i have heard dispatchers tell me that they don`t consider their union a union. they say its an association like the title says. i don`t disagree that you guys have a union just that when your contract is up it seems that you work without one for years at a time before a new one is accepted.
Yes because when your dealing with only 300 members its easy to fool around contract time and not to worry about retroactive payments. But when your dealing with thousands of bus operators, conductors, train operators, etc every day of fooling around with retro could cost millions of dollars.
TSO is a local of TWU, however I dont think SSSA is affiliated with any large union.
hudson you drove the 41 in 79 , i drive it now. kings plaza has always been a tough turn because of cars on your left.i have ben making that turn for the better part of 15 years, whether it be on the b9 or the b41.they tested the artic and found no problem making the turn . same old sos watch your left to make sure no cars are there sneaking in.
[If any of you ever look at the Kings Plaza U-turn it is a doozy, 2-3 times as hard as the whole Grand Army Plaza deal. I can't picture an Artic getting around that turn, and with that hellish traffic.]
Keep in mind that an articulated bus, by definition, is not a single 60-foot unit but rather a 35-foot bus with a 25-foot trailer. This means that it has a TIGHTER turning radius than a standard bus, and thus should be BETTER able to make a U-turn. Plus, artics have been running successfully under elevated structures in the Bronx for several years now.
I'm trying to picture artics on the Bx29, which makes a tight K-turn on City Island to turn around.
I think I'll stop now. Impossible.
What's a "K" turn?
You've obviously never learned to drive. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
A K turn is shaped like a K. You can't complete a U-turn, so approaching the opposite curb, you stop and reverse, turning the back of the car in the opposite direction, so the car is now facing the other way, then forward again.
It's also called a three-point turn, because it has three points.
An artic won't pull it off.
I do most of my work out of Flatbush depot. Hearing about the Artic over there is a suprise to me. I've been on vacation since the second week of May and will return on Memorial day. The Artic must have come over right after I left. I'll talk to management and see what I can find out about the status on the Artics for Brooklyn and let you guys know.
BIG AL
P.S. It's good to have bustalk back again!!!
from what i understand the mta mesed up its order of artics and ordered about 50 to many. flatbush is the get about 30 and use them only on the b41. the biggest problem is not the turn at kings plaza. it was tested and is fine. the problem is the bus stop allocation in front of kings plaza. the bus will overflow onto the b46 bus stop.
The reason the drivers are not happy is that articulated buses mean less work
The TA cuts runs why?
Because according to the TA mentality 2 articulated buses equal 3 standard buses
Since 2 buses can do the work of 3 you cut the third bus
Its that simple
Thank You
Have such cutbacks occured on other routes that received articulated buses?
Jim
It's actually 4 artics for 5 standard buses -- NYCT is quite lenient with the guidelines. In fact, according to the ridership guidelines, after about a 10-minute headway is reached the guidelines are the same between standard buses and artics (in other words, if there are enough riders to merit a 15-minute headway with standard buses, there are enough riders to merit a 15-minute headway with artics).
And yes, where artics have been deployed, there have been service reductions. Usually, the artics are on lines that are so heavy that a slight reduction in service is hardly noticeable (for example, going from a 2-minute headway to a 2.5-minute headway means that, on average, a passenger will wait an extra 15 seconds for a bus). Since the extra riders do have a bad effect on loading time (as mentioned recently on this board), running time is increased somewhat to compensate when artics are introduced. It's still a tremendous monetary savings for NYCT.
David
I think this is such bulls#!t, I've operated articulateds when I was at New Jersey Transit, I found them to be a better bus to operate, easier on the turns and so forth.
What it is that people just don't wanna accept nothing new. Give me a friggin' break!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
can`t agree with you more. i get payed to drive a bus. transit supplys the equipment . i drive it.whats the big deal. the only reason is so called cuts to a line. i know when the artics were introduced on the 79 stret crosstown bus in manhattan they increased the headway. the politicians got involved and the schedules were put back to the way they were before the artics arrived.
If I'm not mistaken, after the complaints came in the running time was adjusted -- the number of trips per hour was not increased.
David
the headways were adjusted during rush hour
Ummm...so someone PLEASE tell me the REASON that I saw that same artic on Avenue N today, possibly near Ralph Avenue and turnin on Ralph, when I thought that they were to be tested near the Kings Plaza area? Unless that bus was headed for KP from the terminal, near Veterans Avenue...
Cleanairbus
The B41 route has two southern terminals, Kings Plaza and Veterans Avenue. Many halves of runs have trips to both locations.
David
septa have seen new flyer flyers on the 40.
5438
5439
While the "talks" were taking a break, I prepared a Glossary for
bustalk. Subtalk has one and I thought it would only be fair for bustalk to have one.
David added it but you can only access it via a circuitous route.
Go to the "What's New" section and look for February 28. Perhaps when David has a chance, he can add a direct link from the front page of Bustalk.
The first installment is listed. I sent David the second installment but I'm sure he's just too busy to add it now.
Michael
Washington, DC
Here's the direct URL:
http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/busfaq.html
DO anybody here here has a photo of a ddc 50 and 6o bus engine
Not sure of the URL -- but you may want to go to the website of Detroit Diesel. I'm sure they would have a photo of the engines NOT under some bus or truck hood somewhere on the site!
no i mean under the bus hood.
Personally, I do not think that the B44 and B46 need artics as bad as the B41. I think some artics should go else. I'm not going to mention the bus routes (Q24, Q56) but at least there are other routes that COULD use the artics. Somebody told the B12 along Eastern Pkwy but that may not sit well at its termination near Prospect Park (if I'm not mistaken).
The B12 does not run along Eastern Pkwy. The B14 runs along Eastern Pkwy at the east end of Crown Heights. The B71 runs along Eastern Pkwy at the western end. Between Rogers and Troy Aves, it is just the #1 train. The B12 runs along ENY/Clarkson Aves.
b12- i lived at clarkson and bedford for 25 years. the route starts at parkside/ ocean rt bedford left clarkson lt albany rt empire(not sure)lt troy rt into eny ave into pitkin lt legion rt eny through tunnel to fulton rt pennsylvania lt liberty rt grant lt next block lt sheridan. lets see howd i do havent ridden it in about 40 years. a hellish route for an artic. rush hours some trips end at alabama/fulton.
From Albany its left onto ENY Ave, left onto Troy, right onto Lefferts Ave, slight merge into Empire Blvd, which then becomes ENY Ave after Utica Ave.
The TA in their wisdom wants to convert Flatbush into an articulated depot only.
Hence the B-41,B-44 and B-46 will be converted to articulated buses
There is a possibility of a 4th line being assigned to Flatbush and converted to articulated
It can be either the B-49 or maybe the B-82
Any comments
BTW- The B 2 and B 31 will go to Ulmer Park
The B 49 if not converted will go to East New York and the new B 47 will go to East New York
Thank You
What is the new B47? Forgive me if this has already been discussed.
In Sept, there will be a B40/78 combination to create an all Ralph Ave route from KP to Woodhull Hospital. This new route will be rename the B47. It will operate from Flatbush depot. It is nothing like the old B47.
B47#5113
any idea when the B2 and B31 will go to Ulmer park?
Route assignments are determined by NYC Transit's Department of Buses, not by bus fans (though DOB has a few bus fans lurking about...). While "Barry" may very well end up being correct in his prognostications, neither he nor anyone else should be saying at this point that any given thing WILL be happening with respect to operation of articulated buses in Brooklyn.
As to which routes in Flatbush "deserve" articulated buses: in terms of ridership, B44 is the busiest route in Brooklyn (13,426,755 riders in 2000), followed by B46 (13,396,171) and B41 (12,945,534). The busiest route in Brooklyn that is not in Flatbush Depot is B35 (Jackie Gleason), with 11,649,465 riders in 2000.
David
David,
It is only speculation on my part but then again i have heard the following:
1-Flatbush was to become an articulated depot
2-PLan wan cancelled because of fuel line in Flatbush
and union was against Articulated buses
3-Back to Item # 1
What happens in the future?
One never knows with the MTA
Thank You
Do they count actual fares or the actual number of people entering through the front AND back doors?
They count the actual number of people they see entering through the front doors. That's the whole idea of the checkers. Any pee-on working in operations planning can check the revenue from the farebox which doesn't always count accurately anyway.
BIG AL
the B-49 already runs out of FLA. I think the B2 and B31 are too far from UP to be efective
I don't know if those who keep up on these things have been keeping up with bus swaps, but I saw former Queens Village RTS #4344 on the Q-17 with a Jamaica decal. How many other buses have we lost? (I am one who has not kept up with these things).
Also buses #3807, 3818, 3824, and 4345.
4300,4301,and 4302 are located at flatbush
I came across a few of the older style self-adhesive "M" logo decals used on the front of NYCT buses (these are the real thing, not some immitation knock-off). They are silver with the dual-blue-colored "M" in the center. The top reads "NEW YORK CITY" and the bottom "SURFACE", encircled in navy blue.
I have 2 large (12") decals and 4 small (8') decals.
One decal per person. The first 2 people who email me will receive one each of the large version. The next 4 will receive one each of the small version (unless one or both of the first 2 requests indicate they prefer the smaller version).
Email me if interested.
Name
Mailing Address
City, State, Zip
There is no charge for the decal and I will pay the postage.
passing atlantic diesel facility in piscataway today noticed 20-25 new mci buses awiting acceptance by nyct. saw 2827,2829 and 2840 amongst others. nyct current bus crisis should be eased somewhat with the arrival of these buses.
i never officially posted. WELCOME BACK BUS TALK!!!!!!!!!
Aren't you kind of late of the welcome back??
do you know how to read? i said i never officially posted welcome back.
anyone know what happened to Orion VII #7560-i know she was being tested in GH-and i did hear rumors more were on order for JG-therby moving their RTS buses out-anyone know whats going on?
TMK, #7560 should still be at Gun Hill. It was there during the months of February and March if I am not mistaken. And that new order ain't going to be for ahwile even.
When i was at Gun Hill Depot this past Tuesday, MTA Orion Low Floor CNG #7560 was not there & i found out the bus is in Washington D.C. The Bus should be back in New York by next week or two.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
It's been in Washington D.C. for like two weeks now...
Apparently, WMATA Metrobus wanted to take a look at the Orion 07.501 CNG #7560 to see if the agency wants to order any amount of the buses, even after Washington once considered an Orion VII order, even after the 100 or so New Flyer C40LFs have been built and delivered...
Sheesh...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
It went to DC in the MTA Scheme?! STRANGE!
#7560 ???
Well, I would assume so...
Will the Articulated buses be running this weekend? Are they assigned to any specific runs and if so, what time do they leave the terminals? I can use the timetable to figure out when they will be along my part of the route. My last questionis what is the target date for making the M102 100% articulated?
Thanks, in advance.
Soon the New 100th Street Depot open, the rumor i hear that M101/102/103 will become 100% Articulated buses or not who know & they are getting 140 buses when they open but i heard that the new 100th Street can handled over 175 buses. BTW you have to find out yourself because i don't think they are not assigned to any specific runs.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
One of them is assinged to a specific run. Oren: I've been constantly getting out of school at 4:15 (right by your stay) by 78 and lex. I always see the artic crossing 78st and lex at that time. So stand in front of Lenox Hill Hospital on a weekday at like 4...should be there soon.
Target date for M102 Articulation is whenever the next batch of New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulateds arrive and whenever 100th Street Garage open, in other words, sometime next year!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
During this week only runs number 16,14,42,35 and 39 have been assigned. Tuesday buses number 1022 and 1063 were on the line
On Wednesday buses number 1010 and 1004 with 1010 breaking down around 8:30 PM at 42St and 3Av with a steering promblem
On Thursday we had buses 1057 and 1045.
The rumors are that they are coming off the m79's soon and they have to go somewhere, and since 100St will be artics you know the rest of the story.
We haven't had many problems with parking at 146 St but I have notified my route managers that if more come we will have to add more spaces on 146 St for the buses.
Also the runs with the artics have been running later that the rts M102's but I do not know if its any relation to the artic itself or the operators inexperience with operating on the line.
Just wondering how will they make the U turn on Amsterdam on the M101's, I drove the M101's and this is not a easy u turn even with a 40 footer.
Are you able to tell me what times those runs are? Do those apply on weekends, too?
Well you figure about every two hours a artic would be traveling through lexingtons and third avenues. from 146 Street its about 3:15,4:50,then 6pm,7pm and then 8:50 and 9:40. These times are estimated and I'm not sure about weekend service yet. I'll tell you next week.
Thanks!
I rode this once on the QM1A to Main St and Union Turnpike. I notice that the seats are like the seats on the Liberty Lines Express Classics. Did Queens Surface end up takeing some of the LLE Order of Classics or what?
Yes Liberty Lines gave up 5 MCI Model TC-40102A Classic Suburban Coaches to Queens Surface, they are buses #950-954 (ex Liberty 3087-3091)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Thanks for telling me. And why LLE gave those buses up?
It wasn't LLE's decision it was NYC DOT's decision, those are DOT's buses and they can do whatever they want with them!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Will the Artics be in Brooklyn anytime soon??
read all the posts here maybe you`ll find your answer.
As someone said here, D60HF 5508 is being tested on the B41 out of Flatbush.
I heard two more bus operators were attacked. What happened? Brooklyn67- can you give more info?
One was a female operator out of FP on the Q58. Think it happened on the over night run.
News claimed the Q58 attack happened on an early morning run on College Point Blvd in Flushing. The driver and some passengers were attacked and robbed, the gangstas got away.
The other attack happened in Jamaica, someone threw a brick at the bus, I don't know the route.
Definately disturbing, I hope they catch the perps.
What is suprising is that it sounded like Q58 bus was fairly full, how a few robbers didn't get stopped by a busload of people is beyond me. You gotta fight 'em, it's the only way to stop gangstas from terrorising people.
We need more people like that brave B/O that stopped and killed the perp.
Here's the article from NY1
Two Queens bus drivers assaulted
(New York-AP) -- Two Queens bus drivers were injured during separate assaults today.
The two driver's union says in the first incident, which happened at 12:42 a-m this morning in the Jamaica section, driver Laura Tyson stopped her bus when a man ran in front of it.
Maurice Lewis, president of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1056, said after the bus stopped, another person threw something at the windshield, shattering it. Tyson had injuries to her left forearm and wrist and was taken to a hospital, where she was treated and released.
Police say they have no information on the incident.
In another case, Burnette Cofer was robbed while driving her bus in Queens around 3:50 a-m this morning.
A police spokesman says two passengers grabbed two gold chains from around her neck, and she suffered minor injuries.
Earlier this month, a bus driver was stabbed in the back by a passenger who wanted him to drive faster. The driver wrested away the pocket knife and fatally stabbed the assailant in the chest.
----
Much more detail than the broadcast TV news (as usual). Both of these incidents happened in the middle of the night, and driving a bus anywhere can be quite risky during this time.
Perhaps there should be some security such as transit div officers on buses late at night.
I don't consider those times early morning, and I doubt the buses were that crowded at that time.
"Maurice Lewis, president of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1056, said after the bus stopped, another person threw something at the windshield, shattering it."
This is all he said? Roger Toussaint references the Assault Bill, questions the safety policy of the TA where BO's are concerned, demands steps be taken to ensure BO safety and shows concern for the injured employees.
Maurice says "after the bus stopped, another person threw something at the windshield, shattering it"??
He's just as useless as a union president as he is a media mogul.
Any wonder why our division is festering on it's way into oblivion?
If the gangstas have weapons, it's dificult to attack them. No matter how many people are aboard the bus. I hope this doesn't become a new trend.
Assaults On Two NYC Bus Drivers Leads Union To Push For Added Security
(Queens-WABC, May 23, 2002) — New York City transit workers demanded more protection Thursday after two bus drivers were attacked. In both cases the drivers were behind the wheel of city buses loaded with passengers when they were attacked Thursday. On of the drivers and her passengers spoke out Thursday afternoon. Nina Pineda reports from Queens with the story.
The drivers, both women, were attacked in two separate incidents in Queens Thursday morning. One of the women attended a press conference Thursday afternoon with her arm in a splint and broke down in tears while talking to reporters, saying she was so shaken up. The other driver was still seeking medical attention Thursday evening, and could not attend the news conference. Now, the union is saying it's about time that authorities do something so the drivers can protect themselves.
Burnette Cofer was driving her regular route between Fresh Ponds and College Point, when witnesses say two men boarded the bus and began acting unruly. They kicked out the back window and then attacking Cofer when she stopped the bus on the LIE to call for help.
Burnette Cofer, Injured Bus Driver: "They heard the radio, they turned towards me and they grabbed my chains off my neck, they ripped my blouse, they tried to take the rings off my finger and they sprained my wrist. When they heard that someone was calling back, at that point, they jumped off the bus."
The second assault happened on the Q-5 line, in South Jamaica Thursday morning. Now the transit workers union says the growing number of assaults is a serial problem and they want the transit authority to do something about it.
Lewis Alzate, Transportation Workers Union: "They are not protected at all. Not at all. Most of the time, during the daytime, the radios don't work. It's mandatory that the radios on the bus work during the nighttime for the overnight drivers, but during the day, God forbid something happens to an operator, the radios, most of the time they don't work."
Another thing the union wants is to have authorities help them conduct a safety survey. In talking to the drivers about the ideas they have about keeping themselves safe, they say they are not allowed to carry weapons on buses. Union officials want authorities to look into radio operations as well as push a bill that would make assaulting a bus driver a class D felony, which would carry with it automatic jail time.
Shame on NYCT for not properly maintaining its bus radio communications system, but at the same time, that union official sure did his members no favors by announcing to the world that many buses operate during the day with defective radios.
Jim D.
as an operator in flatbush depot i have not had a bus in over 6 mos without a working radio. every bus i have had has had a working radio.maybe in fresh pond they have a problem with the radios. back in the mid 80`s radios were known not to work. but since they implemented the motorola system , as a whole the radios are always working.
I would say you are one hell of a lucky B/O not to have had a broken radio in over six months. Believe me, Flatbush has their share of broken radios. When I do adjustments on the B49, and I have to call a B/O, many times I can not get through, or I do get through, but the bus operator does not hear me or I can not here him. I then have to call the buses follower and relay the message to him in the hopes he catches up with his late leader and relays my message to turn short. Most of the time that turns out successful.
BIG AL
There's no excuse for a broken radio. LI Bus does not have these kind of problems with the bus radios, they are motorola also I think and use a 900Mhz trunked system.
No bus should go out with a broken radio...period. It compromises the safety of the driver and passengers.
al alot of guys just don`t respond when the radio is flashing call call call
I know. I caught a B/O ignoring his radio after I was calling him to find out why he was running 8 minutes hot. I caught up behind him in my patrol car without his knowing. I doubt he'll be ignoring his radio anymore since the AGM called him into the office to discuss the violation I wrote him, mainly for not answering his radio!
BIG AL
Well, I've ignored my radio, but because I knew what was coming: "Operator... since you're running off, would you make a bus swap or cover a trip on the...".
I just want to get out of there and go home. They can keep their $25.
Greggo knows never to call me. Marty is learning. One new guy in the radio room likes to have discussions. I've started ignoring him too. King is pretty good- I may answer him. I know you're not at Queens Console, Al, but when you are, I'll learn your voice and ignore you too. LOL
And you can chase me down, write a book, do whatever you feel like doing... I'll still ignore you and write up my intermittent radio defect ;-)
BTW- What happened to "not forgetting where you came from"???
LOL!
Transfer to Queens... we'll do lunch... during one of my trips... LOL
One other thought regarding contacting console in an emergency: don't bother. If you have a cell phone, cut out the middle man and call 911 directly. If not, use a pay phone or flag down a patrol car. By the time the console SLD finishes asking you all the pointless questions from their cheat sheet, the perp will be in Bremuda enjoying margaritas.
Once the festivities begin, you can then contact console to alert them to the situation, if necessary. The last time I contacted console regarding an emergency situation, the reply came over the bus PA system. I don't need the ineptitude of someone in Brooklyn or faulty equipment compromising the safety of my passengers, or of myself.
Needless to say, I have more confidence in myself, than TA supervision, to handle situations efferctvely and safely for all concerned.
...and I do.
that is so true. they always ask as though we have all the time in the world while someone could be getting killed on the bus
Alot of bus drivers, at least on LI Bus, carry cell phones with them. It seems everybody has them.
>>> One other thought regarding contacting console in an emergency: don't bother. <<<
Don't New York buses have panic button silent alarms to summon help in an emergency? Of course they are not much help if the dispatcher is incompetent. Many years ago when the system was new in L.A., a woman B/O was being held at gunpoint and hit the silent alarm. Dispatch called her back on the speaker in the bus to inquire what the problem was that she was calling in for. Thanks to that dispatcher she was not only robbed, but brutally pistol whipped also.
Tom
"Thanks to that dispatcher she was not only robbed, but brutally pistol whipped also."
That pretty-much sums-up any use of their 'emergency panic alarm', eh?
I wouldn't take a chance in a real emergency using that system. Supposedly, it's being updated. We'll see. I'd rather keep driving and get the attention of a patrol car or other NYPD officer (unmarked car- which you know is a PO because of the arrangement of antenni on the trunk or roof of their car).
Something else to look for is the words 'Police Interceptor' on the Crown Vic's trunk...
-Hank
I'm not referring to a Crown Vic, but thanks for the tip.
>>> I wouldn't take a chance in a real emergency using that system. Supposedly, it's being updated. <<<
There have been no mention of a panic button system in news reports for many years in L.A. I don't know if that is because they gave up on the system, or just do not want to publicize its existence. The original system caused the bus's running lights to blink and the headsign to read "call police." The problem with that is that whoever is on the bus could see reflections of the blinking lights and realize the alarm has been activated.
Tom
i never ignore my radio when it flashes call. i have had a few family emergencies and that is how i was contacted.no matter what time it is or if i am running off. if they ask me to make an extra trip i tell them i can`t no matter what.
I knew I was going to hear an earful on my last post about the violation.
**And you can chase me down, write a book, do whatever you feel like doing...I'll still ignore you and write up my itermittant radio defect;-)**
Yup, I know you guys can do that and get away with it with the key work "intermittant".
This is why I only wrote the violation AFTER I boarded the bus at the traffic light and saw and heard the radio beeping call with the operator simply ignoring it.
Now don't get me wrong guys. I've only written 2 violations since I've been on this job. And I don't like writing them. I could write violations everyday with all the things I see. 90% of things I sweep under the carpet with the other 9.5% involving me talking to the operator. I treat operators with the utmost respect. All I ask is that the operator do the same. Had the operator I wrote answered his radio, I simply would have lectured him a little and told him to pay more attention to his running time. It is very unfare to his follower and to the customers that are missing him due to his running hot with no reason. I definitely would not have wrote him. I catch operators running 10 minutes hot and simply lecture them while other sld's write when they catch B/O's 5 minutes hot. My only pet peeve is when the B/O knows he's hot and then tries to blow me off by not picking up his radio. I feel that is very disrespectful which gives me no reason to be lienient.
BTW, Brooklyn67, you are under no obligation to work any overtime if they call you while on a run off. Simply say you can't work it and that's the end of the story. But it is always a good idea to answer your radio because for all you know it may be a family emergency they are calling you about. Also, I'm looking forward to doing lunch with you while on one of your trips. LOL
BIG AL
SLD Al wrote: "I knew I was going to hear an earful on my last post about the violation."
Al, I know you're a good guy, whether you're in your white shirt or not. Simply the fact that you still come in here after your promotion shows that. I'm just playing with you.
I wrote: "And you can chase me down, write a book, do whatever you feel like doing...I'll still ignore you and write up my itermittant radio defect;-)"
Al Replied: "Yup, I know you guys can do that and get away with it with the key work "intermittant". This is why I only wrote the violation AFTER I boarded the bus at the traffic light and saw and heard the radio beeping call with the operator simply ignoring it."
Ahhh... but isn't that the beauty of the word intermittent! I would have said I was in a 'dead spot'.... and just noticed it "calling". I also would have said that I couldn't answer the call because I was at a red light within the flow of traffic, and that I couldn't safely pull to the right without violating NYC Vehicle & Traffic Law which states that a bus may not stop in front of a driveway or impede the flow or traffic, and of course, I would have mentioned that NYCT regulations prohibit one-handed operation, which is why I couldn't answer after I left my 'dead spot'
Sooooo... basically, you'll spend more time writing that violation than I'll spend hearing about it!
Al wrote: "I could write violations everyday with all the things I see. 90% of things I sweep under the carpet with the other 9.5% involving me talking to the operator."
I know that's true. You also know that I can refuse 90% of the buses they send into service due to safety related defects or defects that violate NYS V&T Law. Or, I could just hold off on that until YOU'RE the Yard SLD. See how it works, people? We don't really want to squeeze each other- we try and work together. But when you DO get an SLD with a power-trip, we can make his life just as miserable as he can us.
Al, I'll tell you a great story about this one guy.. in person, if we get together. He has a reputation for being a nut case, and he's not liked by the Queens Division GM. I'm SURE you know who he is- J.A.? If you think you know who it is, email me and I'll fill you in. LOL
Al wrote: "BTW, Brooklyn67, you are under no obligation to work any overtime if they call you while on a run off. Simply say you can't work it and that's the end of the story."
Oh, I know that. I just don't feel like talking sometimes :-)
Al wrote: "But it is always a good idea to answer your radio because for all you know it may be a family emergency they are calling you about."
Nah. I have a cell phone. Nobody will contact console with a personal issue. Any time that radio flashes, it's TA related. Once I'm on my run-off, I consider it MY TIME... and LAY OFF.. LOL!
Actually, the only time I'll help out is when the subway is down. Then I'll run shuttle work for a few trips to help get the people to work. Other than that, let them use the reserve guys. That's what they're there for, although they don't like to use reserve guys for spotted trips because that places them at the bottom of the call list. What do I care? I'm not in supervision. That's not my job... it's yours!!
Al wrote: "Also, I'm looking forward to doing lunch with you while on one of your trips. LOL"
Hey, we can work the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" thing in transit, too! LOL
Lemme know when you get to Queens...
Brooklyn67 and myself can probably create thousands of posts on bustalk countering each others arguments. For instance, his reply about being in a dead spot is good. However, I could counter that it would have to be a proven dead spot as supervision tends to know where most if not all of the dead spots are. We could run radio checks in that area with the same bus to see if the radio works properly of not. Also, Brooklyn67 is right about not being able to answer his radio while driving, due to the two hands rule. However, I can counter that the B/O is supposed to pull safely over to the side, preferably into a bus stop, and then answer the radio. Supervision realizes that sometimes it may take an operator 1 or 2 minutes to pick up a call, depending on the situation.
As Brooklyn67 said, we could both drive each other crazy countering each others arguments. It will not happen, in both the real world or bustalk. Everybody knows there are a few bad bus operators out there as much as bad dispatchers. The key is everybody must work together. I will only write a violation when I feel I have no other choice. I explained my total reasoning to Brooklyn67 via E-mail on the two violations I unfortunately had to write so he probably has a better understanding of what I have to go through sometimes, but I already have full understanding of what Brooklyn67 has to do to avoid being hit with a possible violation.
BIG AL
>>>...due to the two hands rule. <<<
WHAT'S THAT?
Peace,
ANDEE
TWO HANDS ON THE WHEEL AT ALL TIMES!!!
BIG AL
ok let me put in my two cents. i went to hudson for 19a classes. the sld said never answer the radio while driving. pullover due to the two hands rule. i said well since you never knew we drive buses on highways in staten island where thw hell am i pulling over on the si xpway/gowanus. he said wait till you get to manhattan. now you tell this to the sld on console and he says why the hell didnt you answer the radio for twenty minutes. so you answer it. its like the time they gave me an award for 15 years safe driving. the next day they sent me to hudson for 100,its just like the honeymooners. unbelievable but true.
last message should read 100 percent at fault backing into a stanchion parking bus at end of rdo.
We have a saying in RTO: You're only as good as your last move.
I know a proctologist with the same motto...
-Hank :)
Or, as bad.
John wrote: "No bus should go out with a broken radio...period. It compromises the safety of the driver and passengers."
So, you would then agree that trips should be blown because an otherwise fully operational bus hasn't a working radio?
during daylight i have no problem with a bus without a radio. between 7 pm and 6 am in the morning a bus should always have a working radio.
Since the heat is on right now, there will be a panic maintance program in the shops to have all bad ordered bus radios repaired. After a couple of months when the furor dies down, all will be forgotten and back to business as usual. You know, we need to make score. You know, we are having trouble making score due to air conditioning woes. So the bus has to run, functioning radio or not.
Be happy. Most Geryhound MCIs dont have radios. If there is a problem the driver must call on a cell phone or a payphone. Dont ask me what will happen if the bus breaks down on a rural road. The number is a 1800 to their headquarters in Dallas(?)
Buses should be equipped with cell-phones, since the buses travel too far to keep a constant radio base.
The bigger problem with that is you don't have cell phone service everywhere, not even along the major interstates. For a good 100 miles, there's no cell service along the Adirondack Northway, (I87), which is the major route between NY and Montreal.
-Hank
>>> you don't have cell phone service everywhere <<<
That's true about regular cell phones, but sky phones using satellites are more expensive, but effective anywhere.
It is a very recent thing that B/Os have had direct communication with anyone, particularly on long distance runs. Traditionally they were considered the captain of the vehicle and were expected to deal with whatever happened without direct communications with headquarters.
Tom
>>> Most Geryhound MCIs dont have radios. If there is a problem the driver must call on a cell phone or a payphone. <<<
You guys are spoiled. I remember being aboard a Greyhound (GMC PD 3751) that broke down on Route 66 in the middle of the New Mexico desert one very cold night in December, 1957. Our big worry was freezing to death. The B/O flagged down a car, whose driver agreed to call Greyhound from the next town. We then had to wait two hours getting colder and colder until another bus arrived to take the passengers onward.
One of the passengers, a sailor in uniform (dark blue with a pea coat) who had been sharing a pint of whiskey with me in the back of the bus left the bus, got his sea bag, and started walking down the highway, trying to hitch a ride. I thought he was crazy to leave in sub freezing weather wearing clothing that made him almost invisible. I never saw him again, so I assume he did get a ride.
Tom
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentintid=21761
Didn't catch the fleet number, but it was on a northbound 167 Queen Anne Road trip around 6:15pm today 5/24 - obviously, the folks at Meadowlands have finished their training!
Yes NJT Meadowlands Garage, has MCI D4501's 7424-7452, We still have some aritculated buses, like 5-6 left. But these buses are really cool, the rear end lift up and down. I have driven 7427, it is off the hook. These buses are used on various lines 129 166 167 320. I work for the Meadowlands garage so I have seen them come and go. They are awesome. Drivers just gotta be a little more cautious with these esp in the Port Authority and with dips in the road. 8202 is no longer here, it is up at the wayne garage training there drivers. However, I think that the numbering of these buses is kind of stupid cause we have 7401-7418 and these buses are 40 footers not 45. and they also have 8200's that are 40 footers. Who is numbering these things? But these buses are great, you gotta ride them very big difference compared to the artics, they can actually make it up hills. LOL.............Most of our artics have been retired, and several have been transferred to the fairview garage. I feel sorry for those guys! LOL.......Well have a great weekend everyone.
Tony M.
New Jersey Transit Bus Operator
Meadowlands
Today. I saw GBL RTS #1152 on the QM15 and I rode GBL RTS #1162 on the QM18. I also saw Triboro RTS #676 on the QM10. What's wrong with GBL and Triboro? They been putting RTS's on express lines and whoever put what bus on the express lines must be blind or stupid!
Green Lines only has a few coaches(with front door only) to begin with, those are 701-702 and 719-722. And they have 5 QM routes. So don't be suprised to see RTS on the QM18. I know its pathetic, but Green Lines doesn't give a shizit.
-
B13- RTS Nova #5057
-If you're a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
Yea, bu there ARE 50 orions which are used for express buses
The regular express bus probably broke down so they had to take whatever is there and put it in service.
Orions are used on most DOT express routes, right? Orions are not the most dependable buses, often you'll see a Jamaica RTS on a Stengal route because one of Stengal's Orions broke down.
Orions are used on ALOT of DOT Express Routes and some local routes
As long as they cover all their trips it doesnt matter what type of bus they use. All the DOT wants to see is that all trips were covered. They arent concerned about what time the trip was covered or what kind of bus was used.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
transitalk.org
Or badly in need of a bus to make a trip due to a mechanical failure or an ill driver. Whoever assumes the reason a different bus is showing up on a route is due to the incompetence of the HGIC, is quite addled.
-Hank
Figure this out with Triboro: Thye had 3010 on the Q47, 3046 on the Q18 and 3045 on the Q19B. Rode 3010 on Q47 yesterday.
I think there are a load of GMC RTS at Triboro that are OOS. They're in the rear of the depot with engine covers up. 678 674 762 719 675 657 just to name a few that are OOS.
Green is a little more obvious since they're only 6 Express buses for 5 Express lines. Last week I had 5524 on QM15. Saw 5550 1144 and 1156 there as well. You never know-you may even see a 2xx or a 6xx on the Express-I have seen it.
#628 QM15
#3010 Q47
#676 QM10
GBL should use the 5500 Series Orions for the Express Lines since they have soft seats. And the Triboro Orions are use on Local Routes depends on Driver and/or How much Buses they have not working.
That sucks, man. All express buses should just be express buses! Period!
Every day coming home from school, I ride RTS Suburban #9260 on the Q17. It's one of those "pick up kids at school and shuttle them to Flushing" buses.
Once again. RTS on Express Lines. Today I saw GBL RTS #1159 on the QM15 and a GM RTS on eather QM15 or QM18. And also I saw a Triboro RTS #2143 on the QM10(Damn! I should have not rode #3028 on QM10 if that was going to happin. Oh well. Better Luck next time! :( .)
Add 1171 to the GBL Fiasco. That was on the QM15 along with 5547 and 5550.
3022 and 3026 were on the Q19B today.
Go figure.
#1171 QM15
#3026 Q19B
passing by Yukon depot today-caught sight of Orion V #468-#470. All assigned to Yukon-but #470 still has Amsterdam Stickers on it. Is thsi a sign that the #400's are comning to Yukon? Cant wait to find out.
Just saw 470 on M104 recently. Yukon has it now?! Why not Castleton?
They have 471-504. I just don't get it.
#470 S61
#471 S46
yesterday, i had 470 on the 79. it still had amsterdam stickers, and no ezpass. i also saw 468, 469 both on the 79 with yukon stickers. yukon got rid of a few rts's, 2660, and 2270, also another one that i dont know of. i also saw 132 on the 79, dont know if this is new to yukon or not.
on another note, cast has mci 2822 for training.
saw 469 on the S61 today. It has Yukon stickers.
also saw orion v suburban 139 on the S79 today, still NOT repowered.
s79-6336
s61-6344
farewell 2270 & 2660
Joe
So, it is official. They are gone? Done? That means that ALL 1981 buses are done and will be remembered.
Don't let the garage door hit them...ON THEIR WAY OUT!!!
2342 lives on as a training bus as well as museum bus 1201.2679 is used in the bus roadeo. we are now down to four active 1982 coaches.
what kind of engine and transmission do the mta mci has?
SO
what is the different between bailo and twinvision all-led?
And which one is better
They are competing products made by different companies.
I am partial to the Balios equipment, because it's Canadian and my city uses them, but quality-wise, they are so-so. I tend to think the TwinVision LEDs are better-made.
After a brief stay at 126th Street Depot, New Flyer artics #'s 5506 & 5509 are now assigned to Quill depot. Yesterday I observed # 5509 on the M86 and # 5506 on the M79.
I spotted GBL RTS 210 arriving via flatbed trailer to the paint shop a few days ago. She was obviously in some kind of accident since the rear bumper was hanging on the right side and there was some collision damage to the right front. She was in the process of being unloaded. GBL equipment seem to be frequent visitors.
Are you sure it wasn't 710 or 610 .The only 210 that GBL had was a 1970 Flexible New Look,that was retired in the late 80's .
Ya know, come to think of it, I did see a 210 RTS, but she arrived under her own power. I saw the numberboard on the back underneath the markers and it said 210. The one on the flatbed was indeed an GB RTS, but maybe a totally different number. Sorry for the mixup, I just report what I see. Next time I'll get my info straight.
Is the paint shop you're referring to known as Thrift Auto Body on Rte 112 in Medford about 1 mile north of the LIE ?
There is no 710 on the GBL RTS. Maybe he saw bus 270 instead.
http://www.qvdepot.com/assault.html
Bus Operator Assault Bill information and updates. We need your help. This isn't finished yet, but it's time to spread the word.
do anyboby here has photo of septa Luzerne that was taken between 1980-1997 with buses such rts and neoplan.thank you
Or do any have any old photos of the 8200-8500 series Neoplan
Please reply
email me at van2001ko@netscape.net
can anyone confirm the actual reretirement of these two buses?
the only thing i can comfirm is that 2270, and 2660 are definetly not at yukon.
this is a correction to my last message, 2270, 2660, and another rts, will try to get the number tomorrow, are in the back of yukon waiting to be scrapped. sorry for the misinformation. also, i was told, more rts will be going soon as well.
Probably 4085. I knew she was there and now she's not on the roster.
Yet 1852 is still rollin along.
#1852 M30
4085 left a year or two ago.
I knew it was a 4000 series RTS-either from 1985 or 1986. For some reason 4011 and 4148 come to my mind.
#4011 S55
#4148 S61
The above question. Don't any of you guys (and gals) miss staring out the back of those old fishbowls or what?
The classic GMC/Flxible back window was great. Unforunately, the concept of back windows on city buses has been dying since the 1970's, when Flxible and AM General/Flyer went with those small emergency-type rear windows. At least those buses had a back window, though - I hate the back wall and vent found on newer buses - it makes the back of the bus so dreary.
Interestingly, Utica (N.Y.) has some Orion V buses that are about five years old or so, and have a large back window. And, of course, those seeking to relive the classic 'Fishbowl' experience can ride GMC's (and Flyer D901's) to their heart's content in Toronto.
Jim D.
as a driver i think the back window is useless. buses parked at ulmer park`s outside yards in the late 70`s and early 80`s that had back windows use to be broken by rocks from neighborhood vandals. as one that has driven gmc fishbowls and flexes the window was totally useless to the driver.
The Orion II and Orion VI have rear windows.
NO I DON'T LIKE BUSES WITH BACK WINDOW
There's two things obvious here. #1, you were born after 1980. #2, you never travelled to school on a Fishbowl and kept your books on the back shelf of the bus. Ah, memories!
At least you suuport this. I don't know why people are so against it; well that's how I see it.
I have to agree with PatKyleKenny, I don't care for back windows of a bus, unless its a old time Fishbowl bus.
But do you just not care one way or the other or do you and StanKyleKenny actively loathe rear windows?
There was very little point to them. They served little use for the driver to see what was behind him unless it was as large as the bus. The only buses with substantial rear windows were the GMC/Flxible New Looks - even the GMC old looks just had the small dual round windows out back.
>>> There was very little point to them. They served little use for the driver to see what was behind him unless it was as large as the bus. <<<
Here in Southern California, rear windows are rare except on Orion VIs and the buses operated by Santa Monica. It seems like Santa Monica has made a conscious effort to have rear windows in their buses, even the new low floor models. It may not help the driver at all, but I as a passenger like the openness that rear window adds, and I like to be able to look behind the bus to see if a bus I may want to transfer to is close behind the bus I am on. On the down side, it can be uncomfortable to ride on the back seat on a bus heading east on a hot afternoon with the sun beating down through the window.
Tom
What about the side windows in general? It's not like they're spared from the sun's rays or anything.
>>> What about the side windows in general? It's not like they're spared from the sun's rays or anything. <<<
I did not mention side windows because the topic was back windows, but side windows can be a problem, especially the very large ones on low floor buses. I try to sit on the shady side of a bus when there is a choice, but after 3:00 P.M. there tends to be no shady side, and those in longitudinal seating on the east side of the bus get the sun right in their eyes.
Some tinting on those windows would be appreceiated, particularly in the South, and might reduce the use of air conditioning, but I do not know of any transit systems that are willing to pay the extra capital cost.
Tom
IINM, NYCT's entire bus fleet has tinted windows. There isn't much tint, but remember that many bus lines here run all night (and even those that don't are often well-used in the evening), and sometimes it's useful at night to be able to see out the window.
NYCT's Grummans and early RTSs had a heavy tint on the windows and were the subject of many customer complaints about that feature. Subsequent orders featured a lighter tint, in response to those complaints.
David
Why were they complaining? I know at night sometimes it difficult to see out the window. But that was basically it.
Not being able to see out the window at night was indeed the primary complaint.
David
Just wondering if anybody is planning in attending the Bus Roadeo this upcoming weekend in Brooklyn near the Marine Park Br?
If the weather holds up, I'll be there with a Black and Blue NY Met hat since I am a Met Fan.
Looking forward to finally meeting most of you for the 1st time.
See ya there!
#1979 X17
When is the Roadeo? Is it Saturday or Sunday ? What time? Some of us are going to the NYC Model RR show in Kendall Park, NJ (see the upcoming events section of this site for more details). I will be going to "joisy" and back via the Belt Parkway and could hop off for a few minutes if its on Saturday.
I heard it's on both Saturday and Sunday.
#1979 x17
Floyd Bennett Field is several squaremiles, so it would be helpful to know the exact location of the Roadeo. Is it at the south end by the toll plaza, or further north towards the Belt?
Knowing this would ensure I would find it without having to drive or walk around a lot.
Thanks for any info.
I heard that there's supposed to be a shuttle from Kings Plaza to take you there... am I hearing BS, or is this true?
its true. artic # 5508, to be exact
i am looking for bus operator small silver, and dispatcher large gold, uniform buttons with the word MABSTOA embossed on them. they were used in the '60s when 5th ave. coach went out of business and mabstoa was started. if you can help me please e-mail me at -- jtgm@webtv.net -- thanx
Well, I know for fact that the Transit Museum Store in Grand Central has silver buttons with the (M) symbol on it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
I called the NYTM and got the following information.....The festival will be held on Saturday June 22nd from 10AM until 4PM.
It will take place in front of Brooklyn State Supreme Court at the corner of Montague and Court Streets in the Boro Hall area. Its about three blocks north of where its usually held......this year the admission is FREE !!!!!!!!
Awesome-I'm there.
#1979 MTA MCI 102-DL3
This will be my first time going to Bus Fest. I hope to see all the classics like the Fishbowls, and Flxibles. If their going to show RTS's, then use the 1981 and 1982 GMC's only. I do not want to see the 1983-1987 RTS's making an appearance at bus fest. Bad enough I have to look at FP's 4600's/4700's everyday.
-If you're a bus fan, don't move to Ridgewood.
If you look at the pictures of the previous Bus Fests, elsewhere on this site then you'll see that the only RTS that has been there is the one wrapped in the Metrocard Ad. There is a nice mix of New Loooks from GM & Flx, an old look, sometimes double-deckers and occasionally a Mack. Sometimes private individuals and companies send old stuff down...Don't know till you get there....Hope for nice weather.
Do they offer rides on any vintage buses?
JD
absolutely not.
Well, the Transit Museum should consider this, even if it's just a 10-minute loop route. They could charge a couple of bucks per passenger, and raise some funds to continue the restoration efforts.
Or better yet, how about a vintage bus fantrip? I understand that some of these buses are not in running condition, but I would expect that some of the newer GM or Flxible fishbowls should still be operable.
Jim D.
I should be at the Busfest, as long as it dont rain.
oh hell yeah!free admission!? im definately going this time!this'll be my first time and i dont wanna miss it....that is of course if i have to go to work that day.gods i hope not,I WANNA GO!!
Charles Wotring of Royal Coach Models and Double A Transportation are organizing a Bus Show and Flea Market on the grounds of Double A Transportation in Rocky Hill, CT.
Event will take place on Aug 3, 2002 from 8AM - til ???? Admission is free unless you're taking a vendor table.
E-mail me and I can send you a copy of the flyer I received. Please note that the flyer is in Microsoft Word format.
here's a idea for people that record buses.how about wait for the bus to hit the e-way or some long stip until record so that you can get full acc. and top speed sound .
Yeah I've done that, and that is the best way to sample a bus sounds. Start recording when the bus is idling at a bus stop, then when there's good stretch of road ahead, keep the recorder going till the bus makes it's next stop.
Of all the engines, the DDC Series 50 is hardest to record, it has a very low frequency sound that sometimes overloads the microphone.
for a ddc 60 get a sensertive mic.
Thanks for your patience.
You're welcome?
Buses stop every two or three blocks. They also take forever. And Americans are overweight. Wouldn't we be better off if half the bus stops were eliminated, or turned over to car services and vans?
Yes, you'd have to walk a little farther. For the worst off, the three extra blocks might mean three extra minutes, each way. Though some might just have to walk one more block, others not at all.
But the rides would be much, much faster. And with faster run times, you could run more frequent service with the same number of drivers and riders.
Here in Windsor Terrace, there are four stops for the B69 and B75 on Prospect Park West: Bartel Prichard Square (change to B68) and Bishop Ford (change to B67), Windsor Place and Prospect. I think we could eliminate Windsor Place and either Prospect or Bishop Ford. What do you say.
The Q44 limited makes too many stops, especially in Flushing. Ita int any faster than the Q20A/B.
I second that motion.
However, I must say that I find the angle about people being overweight to be a complete irrelevancy. Transit policy should take no account of people who get fat as a result of their own choices; it ought to be a question solely of the efficent use of transit resourses for the proviion of adequate services. (Regarding fat people: they should just eat less.)
The Q56 along Jamaica Ave. is an example of one line which suffers greatly from this overabundance of stops.
I live in Woodhaven, just west of the intersection of Jamaica Ave. and Woodhaven Blvd. The Q56 along Jamaica Ave. is home to the most egregious example I have ever seen of two bus stops located absurdly close to one another -- at Woodhaven Blvd. there are stops on *both* sides of the street! They ought to get rid of one of those stops, it doesn't matter which one. As Ed Norton once said, "flip a kern".
Taking the Q56 can be almost pointless. There have been times when I was headed to the Jamaica library, and I was passed by a Q56 just as I emerged onto Jamaica Ave. I would then just catch up to the bus at the next stop (by walking, not running) and get on. (Of course, this is before I realized that taking the J to Parsons and walking to Merrick was a lot better.) So, the whole stretch of Jamaica Ave. between the Brooklyn/Queens border and 97th St. would benefit by a 50% reduction in stops.
Another example of too many stops is an instance where a "limited" is not nearly limited enough: the Q43. The Q43 eastbound is a "limited" in the evening rush hours east of 179th St. The stops are: 179th St., 188th St., 197th St., Francis Lewis Blvd., and 212th St. (After that I don't know. QV is already too close to Nassau County for me; I try not to go any farther east than that if I can help it.) That 197th St. stop is too near to to Franny Lew for it to be a stop on the "limited". I would eliminate it.
As mentioned, the "limited" eastbound run of the Q43 doesn't kick in until 179th St., so, from Sutphin Blvd. to 179th St., it makes every stop. The whole route ought to be "limited" during rush hour. The stops should be: Sutphin/Archer, Sutphin/Hillside, Parsons Blvd., Merrick Blvd., 169th St., and 179th St.
Assuming that this proposal to eliminate stops also pertains to the private lines, it would help the Q11 along Woodhaven Blvd. This line has stops at both 91st and 89th Aves. -- not two blocks apart, these stops are at opposite ends of the same (longish) block. I would say that the stop at 89th Ave., which is very close to Jamaica Ave. in addition to being only one block away from 91st Ave., should be eliminated.
The southbound Q11 uses 94th St. instead of Woodhaven Blvd. between Atlantic and Liberty Aves. There is a northbound stop at Woody and 103rd Ave; the equivalent southbound stop is at 94th St. and Rockaway Blvd., only a short distance south of the intersection of 94th St. and 103rd Ave. Yet, almost all southbound Q11 drivers stop at 94th St./103rd Ave. -- where there isn't even a bus stop -- in addition to the actual stop dead ahead at 94th St./Rockaway Blvd. (a stop which itself is just a few hundred yards from the *next* stop, at Liberty Ave.). Drivers should not stop at this phantom stop at 103rd Ave. southbound.
The northbound Q11 has a stop at Metropolitan Ave., and then one less then a block away at Yellowstone Blvd. Actually, I am not sure what could be done about this case. You need to have a stop right at Metro. And, the stop at Yellowstone has been recently refurbished with new benches and hitching posts (yes, hitching posts -- this is near Trotting Course lane), so it isn't going to be removed.
Anyway, just a few examples from my experience.
Ferdinand Cesarano
(I second that motion. However, I must say that I find the angle about people being overweight to be a complete irrelevancy.)
Not to me. I'm overweight and walking is about the only exercise I get. If I lived in the suburbs, I'd be dead already.
In any event, my guess is that any pol who proposed cutting the number of bus stops in half would be skewered. But it is a good idea in express addict city, isn't it?
I certainly wasn't disputing the notion that more walking is good for your health. I was just saying that the merits of walking as an exercise should play no part in the debate about the optimal number of bus stops. (An additional comment, which I didn't make in the earlier post, is that the amount of increased walking that we are talking about is really very minimal, at least in my examples. One or two blocks.)
You made the debate resolution that we'd be better off with half the bus stops. Most of your "yes-side" arguments mentioned how having too many stops too close together negatively affects service.
I would say that this is the point. I think it is a more far more sensible and enjoyable discussion when the idea of how to optmize service is the sole main point being addressed. Other points, such as the (health, social, and other) benefits of increased walking, while they may be very interesting, are very interesting footnotes.
Ferdinand Cesarano
(who should eat less)
(I think it is a more far more sensible and enjoyable discussion when the idea of how to optmize service is the sole main point being addressed. Other points, such as the (health, social, and other) benefits of increased walking, while they may be very interesting, are very interesting footnotes.)
Ah, but my pro-transit and walking profession, City Planning, has latched on to rising obesity, associating with our car-obsessed culture. There is an editorial in the most recent issue of Planning Magazine to that effect.
Still, as you say, the main benefit is a faster ride which more than offsets even the longest additional walk. That's the main point. The rest is a half joke.
The reason why the Q43 LTD starts at 179th St is because the F train ends there and going east is good for those customers so they do not have to wait fot the locals. BTW, after 212th St is Springfield Blvd then local to 268th St and Hillside Av.
"The reason why the Q43 LTD starts at 179th St is because the F train ends there and going east is good for those customers so
they do not have to wait fot the locals."
Yes, but that doesn't explain why the limited run *begins* at 179th St. What I was saying was that the Q43 should run limited beginning at its origin point, Sutphin/Archer. This would still serve the same purpose for all passengers transferring from the subway at 179th St., and would benefit those getting on at the earlier major transfer points of Parsons Blvd., Merrick Blvd., and 169th St.
Ferdinand Cesarano
Isn't Woodhaven Blvd At Jamaica Avenue As Wide As Queens Blvd? (2-2-2-2) It's convient To Have Stops On Both Sides Of The Intersection, Why Would You Want To Cross Woodhaven Blvd? ("Blvd Of Death Jr")
The southbound M5 Limited used to stop on 72nd Street just before turning right onto Broadway, and then again just after turning right onto Broadway. A few years ago, the latter stop was eliminated (on the local as well).
The southbound M5 (local and limited) and M7 stop first on the west side of Columbus Circle and then on the east side of Columbus Circle, on Central Park South. One of those stops needs to be eliminated, preferably on locals and certainly on limiteds.
In DC, on the E2/3/4/6, the buses from Friendship Heights (heading towards Fort Totten, Ivy City, Riggs Park, and Knowlwood) stop on both sides of Connecticut Avenue. The second stop probably should be removed. The automated next stop announcements actually call both stops Connecticut Avenue. On the inbound even 30 buses (30/32/34/35/36), the bus stops at the intersection of Wisconsin Avenue and River Road, then again just a few hundred feet away at Wisconsin and Albermarle for the Tenleytown Metro stop. The River Road stop is not used very often. Finally, on the northbound 30s, the bus stops at Wisconsin and Massachussets and then again after crossing Massachussets but the stop is at Cathedaral Avenue. The first stop probably could be done without. In New York, the The Park Avenue stop on the M79 was always a pain, since the Park Avenue stops were on the same block at Lexington heading east and Madison heading west.
There's no comparison between Woodhaven Blvd. and Queens Blvd. Woodhaven Blvd. is not nearly as wide as QB; also, the green light at Woody and Jamaica is long enough to allow pedestrians (note: including the elderly and handicapped) to get across safely, unlike the green lights on QB in the Kew Gardens area.
Ferdinand Cesarano
>>> Buses stop every two or three blocks. They also take forever. And Americans are overweight. Wouldn't we be better off if half the bus stops were eliminated, <<<
Once again, the able bodied have no concern for those who have pain with every step. Your suggestion that it is ok to have people walk further to get to a bus is wrong. Don't forget, the people at a bus stop have already walked some distance perpendicular to the route to get there. The solution is not to make the bus stops further apart, but to have limited buses running along the route with stops about a mile apart. That way anyone going a long distance could transfer to a limited for speed, and those going a short distance would still have the convenience of a nearby bus stop.
Tom Davis
Agreed, especially in the case of a bus line that largely parallels a subway line (M104, M101/2/3, Q60, M6, etc.).
MetroCard transfer privileges should be modified to allow free transfers back and forth between the local and the limited of the same line and still allowing an additional transfer to the subway or to another bus.
Perhaps that would work for those lines with service every couple of minutes. But not for lines where buses are 15 minutes apart as it is.
I did think about the mildly disabled (the truly disabled are on paratransit). But again, the typical distance between stops in NYC is 2-3 blocks. We are talking about 2-3 additional blocks, not 2-3 miles.
>>> Perhaps [Limited Service] would work for those lines with service every couple of minutes. But not for lines where buses are 15 minutes apart as it is. <<<
If buses are running on 15 minute headways (four buses per hour) it is presumably because the ridership is light. If the buses are jammed the headways should be shorter. It would be possible to run three buses per hour local increasing headways to 20 minutes and one limited for every three locals. The longer the headways, the more the riders will be depending on the schedules rather than just walking to the bus stop and waiting for the next bus to arrive.
>>> We are talking about 2-3 additional blocks <<<
That is two or three additional blocks added to whatever walk there already is to get to the present bus stop. Each additional meter to the bus stop will reduce the accessability to some of the riders. It might not be noticeable to others because they would just not leave their homes as often. It would become a self fulfilling prophesy that all those who want to ride can go the extended distance to the new bus stops, because only those who can go that distance will be at the bus stops.
I have three bus stops that I can access from home. The closest is about 25 meters from my door, the next is 150 meters from my door, and the third is about 400 meters from my door. I have the ability to walk about 1,000 meters a day. After that my knees and leg muscles give out and I must rest my legs for about six hours before walking again. If the two bus stops closest to me were discontinued, I would have to move, because I could not afford to expend 80% of my daily walking to get to and from the bus stop. Now I regularly take a bus from the stop 25 meters away to the stop 400 meters away, and wait 10-20 minutes to transfer to that bus.
Probably it is not so obvious in New York how many partially disabled people use the buses because more people there are transit dependent, but they are there. Here in Los Angeles, (where those who can, drive) other than commuting time when subsistence wage earners are going to their jobs, at least 20% of the bus riders have some difficulty in walking, or have asthma, or some other problem which would make a longer walk from a bus stop a hardship.
Tom
(Probably it is not so obvious in New York how many partially disabled people use the buses because more people there are transit dependent, but they are there. Here in Los Angeles, (where those who can, drive) other than commuting time when subsistence wage earners are going to their jobs, at least 20% of the bus riders have some difficulty in walking, or have asthma, or some other problem which would make a longer walk from a bus stop a hardship.)
Here in New York, we have a growing para-transit system for those for whom walking two blocks would be a hardship. Do they have such a system in LA, or is this just in New York.
>>> Here in New York, we have a growing para-transit system for those for whom walking two blocks would be a hardship. Do they have such a system in LA, <<<
I find it hard to believe that New York provides a para-transit system for those who have trouble walking two blocks (and remember it is not just two blocks, but two additional blocks), since they will not even give reduced fares to anyone who does not need some sort of mobility device at all times.
Here in Los Angeles, para-transit can be used by those who cannot use buses to get around, but are subject to availability, and each trip must be reserved 24 hours in advance. As a practical matter, they are used by house bound people for transportation to doctor's appointments. They are no substitution for a public transportation system.
The current philosophy is to "mainstream" the disabled, to include them as much as possible in daily life rather than to segregate them away from the rest of society. That is why buses have wheelchair lifts rather than having all those in wheelchairs taking alternate transportation. Your suggestion, which would make buses less accessible to people is not a step in the right direction.
What criteria do you use to determine an additional two blocks is acceptable? If you are going to decide bus riders can walk two additional blocks to catch a bus, why not an additional ½ mile? When I was 20 years old I had no problem walking a mile to catch a bus if necessary, but the bus system is for all the public, not just the young and those in perfect health.
Tom
(What criteria do you use to determine an additional two blocks is acceptable? If you are going to decide bus riders can walk two additional blocks to catch a bus, why not an additional ½ mile?)
That can easily be turned around, and into "shouldn't buses then stop on every corner -- twice on the same block?" There is a tradeoff somewhere. The current situation is 2-3 blocks. I'm suggesting four to six. Converting to meters threw me off a little, but the average NYC block is 200 feet, the average side street (the buses tend to be on the Avenues) is 60, including the sidewalks. Worst case, that's 750 feet more, or about .14 of a mile. Best case is no change.
>>> the average NYC block is 200 feet, the average side street (the buses tend to be on the Avenues) is 60, including the sidewalks. <<<
Larry;
With figures like those, you had better stick to selling the Brooklyn Bridge to tourists. If I remember correctly, the Manhattan street grid is laid out with 20 blocks to the mile for the avenues, or 262 feet to each block. A quick look at a map shows the blocks between avenues are longer. There may be some shorter streets in the old part of the city, but in the outer boroughs they tend to be longer, so an average of 200 feet is unlikely. Side street blocks of 60 feet would have only one or two buildings on them, and there would be 87 blocks to the mile.
If the current bus stops are every two blocks, or 464 feet apart, the longest walk to a bus stop (after reaching the avenue) is 262 feet. That is plenty. Doubling that to 464 feet, 1.45 times the length of a football field, is too much for the physically challenged.
Tom
You misinterpreted. In New York and Brooklyn, the lot frontage along the avenues is typically 200 feet, and the streets (including sidewalks) are typically 60 feet wide. That's 260 feet per block, or 520 feet for two blocks.
Block lot frontages are typically 800 feet wide in the long direction -- the wider streets are 80 or 100 feet wide. Buses running along the long frontages of blocks typically stop every block, or every 880 to 900 feet. I don't mind that.
What I object to is having buses up the avenues stop every 520 feet (two blocks) instead of every 1,000 feet (four blocks).
Bus Stops On The Valley Metro System Are Placed Either Every 1/4 Mile Or 2 Blocks Apart (16th Street > 18th Street) Except In The Downtown Areas (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Glendale, Tempe, Mesa & Chandler) Bus Stops Are Placed On Every Block. There Are Exceptions for Shopping Malls, Senior Apts. , Senior/Community Centers, High Schools. Also Some Major Intersections there are 2 Stops for each bus route and direction. (Camelback Road At 24th Street (Routes Blue, 10, 24 & 50) Uptown Finance District, Biltmore Fashion Square Mall & Camelback Esplande Office And Shopping Complex)(Indian School Road At 43rd Avenue (Routes 41, 43) 8 Lane Streets Intersecting.)
Questions:
(1) What would SI Route "2" from the early 70s be today?
(2) What would Manhattan Route "10" from the same era be today?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
The R-2 from the 70's i believe is the S-51 route
The M-10 from the 70's is the M-10 and M-20 today
Thank You
1-route S51 i belive.
2-not sure about #2-i think it was the M8
The old s2/R2 became the s51, but is now a bit of a combo of the s51/s52.
FEI:
s1=s40/90LTD
s2=s51/81LTD
s3=s46/96LTD
s4=s59 (rerouted)
s5 Eliminated/combined with s104
s6=s66
s6s=s60
s7=s53/S93LTD (New Route)
s101=s42
s102=s44
s103=s78/79 (s79 Rerouted to serve Brooklyn instead of the SI Ferry)
s103s Eliminated
s104=s52
s105 Eliminated
s106=s67
s107=s48/98LTD
s108=Eliminated/combined with s113
s109=s72, Eliminated/split combined with s51 and s76
s110=s54 (Extended)
s111=s61/91LTD, Rerouted
s112=s62/92LTD
s113=s74 (Expanded)
s115=s55/56, Rerouted twice
s117=s76
s106/111=s57
-Hank
Thanks For The Info Everyone!!!!
Now, Next Historical Question
Can some one Please give me the original to blitz numbers?
Thanks for anyones help!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
In Manhattan:
NEW/OLD/NOTES:
M8: M13 until 1993
M18: Part of the M3 until late 1980s, then the Convent branch was closed. When it came back in 1993 it was the M18, it was then cut back in 1995.
M20: Formerly part of the M10 until 1999.
M22: M1 until 1974, routes used to have conflicting numbers
M23: M15 until 1974, then M26 until 1989.
M27: M3 until 1974, the M50 was also a branch of the M3
M30: M6 until 1974, used to go up Broadway and along W72 to CPW until 1988.
M31: M11 until 1974.
Q32: M15 until 1974, M32 until 1988.
M34: M16 until 1986, it was a branch.
M35: TB until 1974, M34 until 1976, the M35 used to also go to Astoria until 1995.
M42: M106, the current M106 was the M19
M50: M27 until 1988 (or 1987), See M27
M57: M20 until 1974, M28 until 1988. The West End Avenue section until 1988 was served by the M103 which went along 58/59/60 to York.
M60: Didn't exist until 1993.
M66: M7 until 1974, M29 until 1988.
M72: Didn't exist until 1988.
M79: M17 until 1987.
M86: M18 until 1989.
M96: M19 until 1993.
M98: Didn't exist until 1988.
M102: M101A until 1974
M103: Didn't exist until 1995, the M101 and M102 went all the way to Park Row.
M106: M19 until 1996.
M116: M20 until 1993.
The M8 (Broome-Grand) and M12 (Delancey-Spring/Prince) no longer exist. The M8 lasted until the late '80s, M12 until the early '80s.
The M23X became the X23 in 1975 or whenever they changed the numbering format. The M7X became a branch of the X23 in 1980 when AB&EB was acquired by the TA (or OA) and in the late 1980s they became the X90 and X92. The X92 was rerouted to York in 1995.
The X25 was created in the late 70s to run from GC to Downtown. The X26 started running from Penn to Battery Park City a few months ago.
"The X25 was created in the late 70s to run from GC to Downtown"
X25 started nearly 20 Years ago? WOW! How did it lived this long when the route is low ridership? I do rember the Q75 started back in the 70's too. So I thinking the Q75 and X25 have something that's the same.
Probably because it's an insignificant amount of money. The bus is already there, it needs to go downtown anyway, and it collects a few fares.
-Hank
actually when i drove it some 15 years ago it picked up mta employees at grand central almost exclusively. they all rode free with their mta identifications. another perk for them.
Employee passes are not now, and were not then, good on NYC Transit express buses -- officially, at least.
David
"I do rember the Q75 started back in the 70's too. So I thinking the Q75 and X25 have something that's the same."
The Q75 started around the late fifties, early sixties. I'd have to check my copy of the excellent 1977 bus magazine issue devoted to Queens' TA routes.
You may be thinking of the Q88, which duplexes the 75 along 73rd Avenue from 188th to Springfield. That started September 16, 1974- right when I entered tenth grade and the QV depot opened.
Check this article about New Flyer Articlated Buses ready to roll this fall in manhattan.
Peace
David
MaBSTOA TCO/OP
so that mean's they geting some more
Truly pathetic and embarassing that the word "articulated" did not appear once in that article. In 1985 and 86, none of the reports of NJT's Volvos neglected the proper descriptive term, and NJT's press releases about their Neoplan order don't use terms like "accordion" either.
Also, I did not appreciate the blantantly disfavorable terms like "rigs" and "behemoths." This was not objective news reporting.
But that is what most people call them. The people who I stay with know the technical term only because I use it and it doesn't come to mind right away. Besides, when I was little, I called them accordian buses. And I can see M79 and M86 riders calling them rigs and behemoths. Snails, slugs, and obstructions can also be used, too.
anyone know what depot the articulated buses are comning out of, or are they going to make 1 depot articulated(like 126th st)?
This means that this is option order of 140 buses with another 120 ordered, taking the numberes from 5510-5769 unless the TA gets REAL stupid and reverts back to the 1100s which that would make this order, 1112-1371! What happened to 1110-1111 you ask, THAT is the original numbers of the current 5250-5251 and judging by the fact that BOTH these buses still sport those 1100 numberes on the roofs, they are still registered as so! Don't be surprised if they do revert back because this has been the case with the MCI orders, bouncing between 1000 Series and 2000 Series Numbers.
Also judging by this artic order, the TA MUST be pushing to have the new 100th Street Garage opened in time for this delievery!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Didn't know 5251 was 1111. I remember 5250 being 1110.
Any evidence of 5251 being 1111?
Also besides 100 St who will receive these New Artic buses?
#5251 BX12
MAJOR EVIDENCE: #1111 is on the roof of #5251, kind of a dead give away if you ask me!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Evidence is good enough. Thanks for the info.
I also saw LIB 106 as LIB 125 one time. Qtrain-Do you remember this 1? The bus literally had 2 numbers on it. 106 in front 125 on the sides and rear.
#1111/#5251 BX12
#106/#125 N20
Check TransiTALK for a update on the MTA-New York City Transit "Bus" Page in the East Gallery for new old stuff!!!!!!!
Enjoy!
www.transitalk.org
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I just took my 6 rolls of film from this weekend's trip to the store to be processed. It is quite a large amount of money I pay to get my pictures done and I have decided it is time to upgrade to a digital camera. I saw some of what people were using on Sunday. Maybe some of you saw what I use. My primary camera is an Olympus [mju:]-II Zoom, and I believe a digital version is available. If anyone has it and can review it here, please do. If you have other suggestions for what I should consider getting, please post that information here or e-mail me at oren@orenstransitpage.com. Include the manufacturer, model name, pros, cons, features, and approximate cost. I greatly appreciate anyone who takes the time to do this!
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
www.orenstransitpage.com
I recently bought a digital camera (three months ago)...a Canon A30. The price was right and it is easy to use. I have been using a Minolta Maxxum 7000 for about 12 years now and it still takes excellent shots -- but the cost of film, time for processing, storage of pictures, etc. -- you know how it goes!
There is one major drawback to this digital camera, and I have heard this is the "norm" in digital photography until you get up to the REALLy expensive equipment. The drawback? That damned delay from when you push the shutter to the moment the image is actually recorded. It is quite difficult to get a nice centered shot of any equipment that is moving. Still shots are a breeze.
The settings on this camera are for Resolution: 1600x1200, 1024x768, or 640x480. Also a Compression setting: Normal, Fine, or Superfine.
I normally shoot stuff at 1600x1200 resolution and Superfine compression. This actually takes up around 1MB of room on the Compact Flash card (I have the original 8MB, plus two 64MB CF cards). Once I transfer the images to the computer, I keep them at the original large size, and when there's enough they go onto a CD-ROm. If I choose to post the to Usenet groups, I use a program (downloadable free...) called "Irfanview 3.61" to resize them to 1024x768. That way the posting doesn't take up too much room in the newsgroups which usually limit their binary space.
That's about the extent of my experience and knowledge in digital photography, but I am enjoying it so far.
As a professional, the better digital equipment is 4+ Megapixels, with 6 becoming the standard. true 'photo quality' is said to be in the 9 megapixel range. Top of the line is currently the Canon D60, at 6.3Mp and $2200. Top pro model is the EOS 1D, which is the one I would need to keep compatibility with my current lenses and such, is 4.1Mp, and $5500.
-Hank
Last summer, I bought a Kodak DC3400 Zoom to compliment my Kodak T550 Advantix APS film camera. The DC3400 has 2 resolution sizes, 896x592 in Standard, and 1760x1198 in High - standard 4x6 proportion - and in three grades Good, Better, Best. With a 64MB CompactFlash card, I can shoot about 500 pics in Standard/Better form. Shutter speed us 1/2 to 1/750th of a second - not the best for night photography, but does shoot well for basic purposes. The lens will shoot clearly as close as 9 inches.
For printing, I use an HP Photosmart 1000 inkjet. It has a direct CF card reader, and can print on glossy photo paper as high as 2400x1200 resolution. A High/Best resolution digital pricture printted on glossy paper at 2400x1200 is almost indistinguishable from a film print unless you look VERY closely at the surface of the digital print. While the 1000 is now out of production, the model 1115 will do a similar job.
The 1115 is adequate. The best you can get is dye sublimation.
-Hank
just wondering, how long does the batteries last on your canon a20 digital camera? i have a canon powershot s30 and i average around 50-70 images on a full charge on a good day (not very hot and not too humid).
My A20 does a little better than that -- wife and I visited two amusement parks last month, and did about 75-85 shots at each and had no battery die-out. But I did not use the flash on a single shot. (That number includes shots we took that didn't look "quite right" and were deleted during the course of the day.) Both days were rather warm -- mid 80's, usual low California humidity.
Last week I went to San Diego and Tijuana...and didn't realize it, but I started out with a less-than-fully-charged set of batteries and got 55 shots before getting the low battery warning when tryng to take one last bus photo across the border. (And like a fool, the psare set of batteries were in my car parked two stations up the SD Trolley route!)
I use the Sony Cybershot DSC-S75 which is a 3.34 Megapixel unit. It came with a measly 8 MB memory stick, but I purchased a 128 MB stick and an extra battery and it's serving me well.
Wayne
I could care less about the game of golf unless Norton is teaching Ralph to step, plant his feet firmly on the ground and address the ball !!
Anyway, I was told that the newest LI Bus CNG buses are to be used as for shuttle service for spectators for the US Open at Bethpage Park. I was told that the buses would start at the Nassau Coliseum parking field and run to Bethpage. This seems to make sense because Nassau Coliseum is accessible by the nearby Meadowbrook Parkway and the Bethpage Parkway is a dinky two lane parkway with no center divider that can't handle the traffic.
Can anyone verify this ?.......FORE !!
Bill "Newkirk"
Would they run any older buses on the shuttle from time to time?
>>Would they run any older buses on the shuttle from time to time?<<
I didn't hear anything about older buses.
I was told they (LIB) would use the CNG buses that are being delivered now.
Bill "Newkirk"
Would the sponsors and politicians allow the old sh** to be used at such a premier event? No way. I think that the ticket and food prices are in line with the tennis at Flushing Meadow.
I suspect that LIB and the MTA would want to show off their best here. These golf folks have money, i suppose they may be offended enough riding a transit bus to the US Open. Dont give them the satisfaction of complaining about the lack of AC and a dirty bus.
Too baad the LIRR couldnt get their M7 units operating yet to work the extra service to farmingdale. They'll uses the junk M1s and M3s from the early 70s.
As ar as appearance goes, LIB should win the prize.
<<< These golf folks have money, i suppose they may be offended enough riding a transit bus to the US Open. >>>
They shouldn't be too offended by riding on a bus. Many of them are probably professionals who travel as part of their jobs, and have ridden more than a few airport shuttle buses.
Jim D.
"<<< These golf folks have money, i suppose they may be offended enough riding a transit bus to the US Open. >>>
They shouldn't be too offended by riding on a bus. Many of them are probably professionals who travel as part of their jobs, and have ridden more than a few airport shuttle buses. "
They won't be. This type of set-up (parking area miles away with shuttle busses provided) is the norm at all major golf events. None of the major courses have parking areas to handle 30-40 thousand spectators.
CG
For the Kemper this week, Ride-On is operating shuttles from Montgomery Mall. There is hardly any parking at Avenel. Traffic on River Road was a mess because of the golf too.
FYI: Kemper Shuttle Routing is this:
From Montgomery Mall to Avenel
Fernwood Road towards Democracy Boulevard
R on Democracy
L on Seven Locks Road
R on Bradley Boulevard
X River Road
X Presimmon Tree Road (Bradley Boulevard becomes Oaklyn Drive)
L into Avenel
Reverse for the trip from Avenel to Montgomery Mall
I believe the buses come from the southern (Silver Spring) garage but am not totally sure. I didn't see any of the shuttles today.
It's a good idea, if it takes cars off the road I'm all for it!
If they had a World's Fair in NY these days, there'd have to be lots of shuttles. Even in the old days, I believe that the IND used an extended track to service the fairgrounds.
I'm suprised they just didn't use private coach service for the shuttle.
Also LIRR has added some service to Bethpage.
With alot of the LI Bus fleet in use during that period, I guess there will be more problems than usual if there aren't enough reserve buses.
Looks like the diesel Orions will out in full force. My bus just better have A/C!
369 front sign is busted already.
i got some information that there would be shuttles running from jones beach as well as the already-mentioned shuttles from farmingdale LIRR
Yeah the signs on Orions suck, they are so unreliable. Even NYCT seems to have frequent problems with theirs.
At least the signs are better than those small signs on the Cummins Orions, I can't read those until the bus is right in front of me.
I like the orange signs like Orion 522 has at Stengal.
Everytime I see it, it is working, so perhaps the orange ones are more reliable.
I will be expecting service problems June 10-16, I remember the fiasco with the special olympics last time.
Well all LIB riders should hope it's not 100 degrees that week
If it's 100 there will be alot of breakdowns, new and old buses.
Buses generally overheat in hot weather. It's only 6 days, we'll get through it!
Today 321 had a backdoor problem, it would not open. The driver tried everything but gave up.
Lets hope some spectators don't get stranded!!
Busses are running from the following locations to Bethpage Park:
Farmingdale LIRR (for train riders only)
SUNY Farmingdale (probably a VIP lot)
Jones Beach (10,000 parking spaces with 175 "continuously running shuttle busses")
175!! How many busses does LIB have in it's fleet?
CG
175 buses LI Bus cannot commit without cutting service on regular routes, they probably will be coaches and maybe even school buses(yikes) from Jones Beach.
Well if you was thinking it was the NYBS New Look,Yea but much rare then that and it's not from NYBS. I saw it on 5 Ave today with a Verry Old "GARAGE" Roll Sign and it was with a Dark Green and Silver New Look beening driven by a guy in a polo shirt(Did not get a good look at the driver). I got pics of it that I would upload them maybe tommorw or so. What was that New Look? And I know it had a A/C Unit in the rear. So it's not a Ex MTA New Look for shure!
It might be that ex-NYCDOT (possibly Green Bus Lines or Triboro Coach) GM that is used by a group of Hasidic or Orthodox Jews or people of that sort who commute to Midtown every day...
There's an ex-Triboro GM doing the same thing...I see it every time I'm in that part of Manhattan, even where I go to school...passing by Chamberst St, too...
Cleanairbus
Is this the one? I took this picture on October 28, 2001 on Houston Street. I saw the same bus (or a similar one) again on May 14, 2002 on 1st Avenue (I drove alongside it from Houston to the mid-30's, where I lost it).
I would like to see your pictures.
Trevor Logan has pics of this or a similar bus coming out of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. It appears to be run by some Hasidics and has been spotted by TL in the Penn Sta area. He thought that the bus is under contract to a large camera store known as B&L or some other intial type name.
Must be B&H -- that's where I happen to buy most of my film, and it's a block west of Penn. Very interesting.
it is indeed owned by orthodox/hasidic jews who commute from boro park/williamsburg on it. they go to midtown diamond district. if women ride they sit behind rear door. the ortodox/hasidim do not like to use mass transit and stay amongst themselves.
Yeah, they're a pretty biased bunch.
-Hank
>>>And I know it had a A/C Unit in the rear. So it's not a Ex MTA New Look for shure! <<<
Why not? NYCTA had new looks with A/C.
Peace,
ANDEE
it was owned by queens surfce or triboro coach. thete are two of them.
I'm still in my 30's, but all of this excitement about seeing a GM New Look bus in Manhattan is making me feel old! Was it really all that long ago when the New Looks ruled New York?
For some of you who are younger, you'll know how I feel in about 15 years when future bus buffs get all excited about seeing an RTS bus in Manhattan.
Of course, I would have reacted the same way if I saw a GM 'Old Look' bus on 5th Avenue in 1981 :D
Jim D.
IINM, the last NYCT New Look was pulled in 1993. Aside from NYBS and the occasional small private company, it's been a while!
NYCT's last "fishbowl" is 5227 (a Blitz rebuild), which was removed from service in early 1995. The bus is now part of NYCT's museum fleet.
David
It should be in the upcoming rodeo. I'll be over there for a short while and try to find out the original number to make Trevor's day.
BIG AL
I used to ride 5227 often in its Amsterdam days. I didn't realize it was in service until 1995. Did the other 5200's make it to 1995 also?
Late '94, maybe. 5227 was held back to be the ceremonial last non-lift-equipped bus, and the ceremony was in early 1995.
David
Thanks. Could the TA legally press 5227 back into service again (all other issues aside)? Were the Blitz rebuilds in as good condition as they appeared? To my eyes, ADA alone killed off a very nice fleet of buses.
ADA shouldn't have been the sole reason for removing the non lift-equipped buses. Other properties such as the MBTA in Boston were buying new buses without lifts as late as 1986.
Jim D.
Ok 517-521 went from CS-QV. That's strange enough. 4901 is now at CS. It's sitting under the boardwalk as of yesterday at 6pm. This had me scratching my head. Anybody know why 4901 is now at CS?
#521 Q46
#4901 Q32-LOL!
I don't know. Maybe it got lost! :-)
Oh, BTW, I rode #1027 on the M102 northbound from 135th to 145th Streets.
That's a GOOD question. Maybe Trevor, BIG AL or Brooklyn67 may know the answer!
4901 could be sitting at CS for any number of reasons. The most likely is that it developed some sort of mechanical problem and was brought into the closest depot for repairs which may have been CS. Also, maybe it was being used for training and they decided to stop by CS for a break. Also, it could be something as simple as they were using it to make a delivery. I remember one time at Jamaica depot, we had to use a RTS to deliver some desks which were being shipped to a depot in the Bronx, Kingsbridge I think.
Seeing a bus parked in another depot other than it's own is really nothing to scratch your head over, especially when it's a newer bus not likely to be transferred. The head scratching starts when you see the new depot logos placed on the bus.
BIG AL
Many years ago when the old Q-49 was started between Queens Blvd/Jamaica Ave and 168th St/Jamaica Avenue the route was split between East New York Depot(Brooklyn Division-TWU) aand Jamaica Depot(Queens Division-ATU) some of the East New York runs had to pull in and pull out for their swings. There was one ENY driver who lived near Jamaica Depot and they let him bring the bus to Jamaica Depot instead of running off to East New York for his swing which was like the express lines now have about 3 to 4 hours.
Well one day their was a new yard dispatcher at Jamica who did not know about the arrangement and he tried to give the bus out to a Jamaica Depot driver. Needless to say the bus never left the depot
because it had a ENY farebox and destination sign
Thank You
Even if the bus had left the yard, it would have made no difference where the bus was from. A bus is a bus. The only thing that matters is the code you enter into the farebox. Alot of times Jamaica has QV buses sitting in the yard that need repairs that wind up over in the depot. One day when we were running short of buses, we sent out a QV bus also. The only thing that mattered was we had to let QV know not to send over an operator for the duration the bus was going to be out.
BIG AL
At the time the Q49 was running (it ran until the Archer Avenue subway opened in late 1988), the current fareboxes were not in use, and the ones that were in use did not control the signs and did not spit out transfers (in fact, for most of the Q49 route's existence, mechanical fareboxes were in use). Additionally, many of the buses at that time were "fishbowls" (or the Flxible equivalent) and didn't have electronic signs.
David
Al,
This was way before computers
Happened between 1977 and 1984 before the Q-49 was given completely to Jamaica
Thank You
And i do believe i saw 515 not in service on Jamaica Av yesterday post-rush heading toward QV...unless it was a stray 27 deadhead
Only question would be if there were CS or QV stickers on 515? 516 is still at CS-saw her in the yard recently so I would assume that 515 was a Q27 deadhead.
#515 Q27
515 should still be at Stengal.
That's it. I'm going to the boardwalk tomorrow.
Any idea why NYC DOT was willing to buy Classics for the express services, but not for the local routes?
Also, is DOT planning any new bus purchases in the near future?
Jim D.
Unknown on the Classic question, Green Bus lines has several Transit-Style MCI Classic Model TC-40102A's in service but that's about it.
NYC DOT current has a order out there for "supposed" 102 quantity of Orion 05.501 CNG Transit-Style buses. This order was back from a year or more ago, the Original plan was for this order to be 18 to Command for the B100 and the remainder to Triboro Coach, Command still needs the 18, however Triboro turned out to be a bad chioce because they have no more capacity for CNG buses. However, since then, it was decided that the order would be distributed between Command and Green Bus Lines. Which I find wierd because GBL has NO CNG fueling facilities.
Oh well!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Okay, dumb question but when will that order come? Next year or two?
i would have sent the Orion V to Command and sent the MCI over to Green lines to use on the express routes-at least commuters wouldnt complain if they get a local bus on the Green lines express routes-now they would have better buses
Advice for Green Lines and Triboro Coach-LET THE MTA TAKE YOU OVER!
"Trudgeboro Roach" is now having problems with their destination signs. I've seen loads of RTS with broken signs and paper ones in the windows.
As far as Grudge Lines is concerned their buses are delapidated, they never come on time and are all packed to the door. I was on 647 today on the Q60 and it smelled like piss. A 96 inch sardine with nowhere to move-no a/c and it had a grindy acceleration.
Also the other day I wanted to report a driver on the Q60 for being such an ass hole. I was trying to take a pic of MTA 8486 with Green Bus 5513 right next to it. In broad daylight and w/o a flash, this guy starts screaming at me saying hey what the fxxx are you taking a pic of my bus for-what are you some type of fxxxin nut or something?
I just simply walked away from him like nothing ever happened. I never took a pic of 8486 with 5513. I crossed the street and got my shot of 8486 not repowered and walked away like nothing happened. But
this guy gives us bus buffs a bad name. All we want is to take a pic of a bus/train. It's our hobby.
I know someone that was trying to take a pic of an Orange Sign bus and it was on the Q60-he turned the destination sign off so that he wouldn't be able to take the pic.
I think this guy's run was 6008.
What an ass hole.
The MTA would do a much better job with these 2 companies than what
the actual companies are doing with them now. Cleaner buses and much better performance.
MTA-TAKE THEM OVER PLEASE!!!
#1979 MTA MCI 102-DL3
#516 Q18
I was told they were to convert that garage, and I don't think they've done jack squat about that...same thing with Manhattanville...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Queens Surface Corp. Orion V CNG #437
You can mix this with Manhattanville, I know why it's taking Manhattanville so long!!!!!
DOT is another story!
Regards
The TOR-nado
www.transitalk.org
You CAN'T mix this with Manhattanville, I know why it's taking Manhattanville so long!!!!!
DOT is another story!
Regards
The TOR-nado
www.transitalk.org
I thought that CNG order was cancelled for some reason, as I was told...and I haven't found out if they are getting anything to substitute the Orion V CNGs...
It was cancelled and reinstated, you are so behind. And the reason why you haven't found out is because there is no subsitute. Na-DUH!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
Well, with very few to update me, that's why I am so behind...sheesh, I have so many other things to think about, I'm not following DOT stuff 24/7, like SOME people seem to be...and what do you mean there's no substitute? There's gotta be SOMETHING...'cause this can't go on like this!
Cleanairbus
Rapid Transit Series
EXCUSE ME?!
In ANYCASE, There is no substitute because the Orion order wasn't cancelled it was DELAYED!!!!!
Common Sense - Why have a substitue when you didn't CANCEL a order.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
"Any idea why NYC DOT was willing to buy Classics for the express services ..."
Did Rip Van Winkle just wake up or what ?
The MCI Classics were bought new in 1988 !
They probably will buy some MCI Cruisers (either the clean diesel or CNG version).
Mr rt__:^)
I asked the question to get a historical perspective. Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's, both the Classic and RTS were being produced. I was curious as to why the DOT bought Classics for the express services, but not for the local routes.
Jim D.
I know that the NYCDOT has local MCI Classics. There are approximately 10 for the Green Buses and approximately 2 for Jamaica Buses.
Keith, Keep tuned to this Bat Channel because I'm going to do the Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long when we all start to sweat a little < G >
Okay, I'll be looking out. Thanks.
Does anybody know what happened to Nova Dual Mode Bus 6360 which was in Manhattanville
It was part of a 5 bus order for Dual-Modes between Nova and the MTA which was cancelled at Nova's request after 6360 was delivered
Thank You
Last week while I was deadheading along NJ Route 17, I spotted Ms. 6360 chillin' out at Detroit Deesel in Lodi, NJ. I'll have to take another ride over there to see if there is a update.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
............is at CS depot all surrounded by Orions. Spotted her at around 5:30pm yesterday.
Q88#4901
So what's next? A JAM Nova RTS Suburban at CS?
I hope so. :-D
I think I'll stop by CS tomorrow with my dad and see what I can see.
516 is now at QV. I saw it on Tuesday and This Morning on the Q46 to LIJ.
[516 is now at QV.]
So is 518, plus at least one other bus numbered in the 510's (517? 519?).
Question is why is QV getting these buses when CS is even more desperate? They're now extremely short of buses now that 513-521 went to QV.
#516 Q46
What's the deal?
I have recently seen Orions 468 and 470 back on Staten Island operating out of Yukon - with what I believe to be Amsterdam Patches.
Have the old dogs been killed? (2270&2660)
Also, when in midday and late night, when there are plenty of buses available, why do they run Suburban Orions?
So they can get the local versions cleaned, repaired, etc? Use a low mileage bus overnight while the regulars get a rest? Who cares! As long as the last s59 arrives at the stop on or shortly after the time on the schedule, not me. Again, RIDERS only care that the bus is clean, on time, and gets them where they are going safely. That should be everyone's priority.
-Hank
i have seen Yukon put Orion V express coaches on the local routes. They only have 5 local routes(s55,s56,S61,S79 and S91). they need to imporve their orion V scathitti problem.
1.what do you think is faster NYCMTA D60HF ar Septa Neoplan AN460?
2.Nycmta mci or new jersery transit mci d4501?
3.nycmta new flyer c40lf or mta orion VII?
......................................................................
You can't compare none of these and for one MAJOR reason....
EVERYONE CUTS THIER BUSES BACK TO A DIFFERENT LEVEL. If all the buses were wide open, they'd all run the same, but because everyone has a different "setting" its a little unfair to answer such questions.
You comparisons? Ok...Compare a Peter Pan D4500 to a Greyhound D4500, that's a reasonable comparison to make!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
my car is faster lmao
Hmph! You think, I had a 1984 MCI MC-9A Cruiser Yesterday, #6663 and I was blowing past cars like they were standing still!
T.
i wish septa has the type's of bus were instead of the traffic go past you .You can go past the traffic!!!
I have noticed that while jogging the past few days along Dyker Park, the B70 has been on Cropsey Avenue in both directions going PAST 14th Avenue. What's going on? A new route?
Might just be a reroute.
The B70's and the Short B8's have to turn around a different way becouse of the VA Hosptal being closed since 9/11/01. I am not sure the exect turn thay do but I think the B70 loops aound the park makes a right on Bath ave, right on 15ave and a right on Cropsy Ave and returns to the front of the VA.
Robert
it basically where the b70 turns around. occasionally, ive seen the b70 turn on bay 8th St BEFORE it gets to Cropsey.